# Christian archery companies



## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

My wife's new Bowtech has a bible verse on the box. Personal views aside, I find it weird how many archery companies advertise with Jesus. I mean, you don't see this in other industries. My coke or pepsi bottle doesn't advertise a faith, nor do much else. I don't know how other people feel about it, but to me it comes off as fake and just a way of saying "look at us, we are good ol' boys you can trust." 

With all these hunting companies advertising their Christianity so much, it made me wonder if there are any companies of different faiths. Anyone know? Are there any atheistic companies preaching that their stuff is the product of _survival of the fittest_? Maybe Jewish companies that make good products, as long as you don't use them on pigs?  I suppose Buddhists wouldn't get into hunting but they still might make target products?


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.

It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than even to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


Amen.


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## gut pile ohio (Jul 15, 2012)

I am on Old Gobbler Turkey forum, as well as few others and most of the custom turkey call makers there are Christians and will often inscribe a verse on some if their calls. IMO any company or individual that puts Scripture on their product or advsertising will be scrutinized more severly by the public. It's just the price they pay for trying to spread the Gospel. 

..... And that is why I would never put any bumper sticker or anything on my car indicating I am a Christian, because at times my driving does not reflect my faith, but I am working on it.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

optimal_max said:


> They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box.....It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


I hope so too, but I kinda disagree on your first point. Putting a bible verse on the box is preaching to the choir (mostly). I think the majority of hunters associate with Christian faith, so putting a bible verse on the box really isn't going to affect sales (I am speculating). But if you put "praise allah" on a bow box, well that would be "courage"...but I bet it would also be business suicide! 

I'm not Christian. It doesn't really _annoy_ me that I see lots of bible verses and religious stuff on products (everyone has the right to be proud of what they are), but it does strikes me as weird. I would never avoid a company because of their faith (there are a lot of bowtechs in my house, and I love my Trinity stabilizer), but again it just is weird to me.


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## Ronin Conan (Jul 4, 2011)

The hunting market is on the whole quite conservative, with the hunting market making up the majority of compound sales it probably won't hurt to express their faith (or try to appeal to them depending on how cynical you are).


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## cyclepath (Jul 1, 2009)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


How ironic, christian companies selling products to other religious and atheist groups that use money with "in god we trust" on it.


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## nuttinbutchunks (Jul 18, 2008)

In the times we live in, Christianity is under asault, and there doesn't seem to be a reason for it, while other religions are protected (Muslim for example). IN fact, freedom is under attack. IMO, the two go together. If you are not of a Christian faith, or are not part of a religion at all for that matter, simply disregard. No worries. 
If a company wishes to stand with a religion, it wouldn't bother me. It doesn't make me desire what they sell more, but maybe it would someone else. Just take it with a grain of salt.


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## tenpin (Mar 31, 2010)

This is why AMERICA is the greatest country in the world.. our freedoms..... Besides your own personal beliefs of who is right or wrong... try this in another country and you could be punished up to death. America will always rein supreme as long as we have freedom.. I will always live by standing for what I believe..


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## patiodadio (Jan 7, 2013)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


Well said, amen !


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## Bowhuntr64 (Aug 6, 2007)

I really like it! QAD, Matthews and other big archery companies are bold with their faith.


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## hawglarry (Jun 30, 2011)

Some take it even further. Mathew McPhearson started Mission Archery who publicly states that all profit from the company goes to support Missionaries around the globe.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

There is one thing for sure. It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate a man from his awareness that he only exists by the grace of God. 

Putting a printed bible verse on a box or directly on the product may or may not enhance sales of that product but it does indicate that the company or the man that is responsible for the printing is aware that this life is about more than the products that we can produce. 

You can be critical of that practice or praise it but one thing is for sure......you cannot separate a man from his faith. 

Doug


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

So does anyone know of a hunting or archery company that publicly expresses a faith besides Christianity. Again, I buy products based on their quality and customer service, not religious beliefs, but I have to admit I'd love to see a stabilizer with a darwin fish on it


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## cinchup1973 (Oct 19, 2011)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


Right on!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

How is the Government and the media attacking Christian faith?

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure Evil (Apr 26, 2012)

Isn't this the same for the Lost Camo clothing line? Thought I read somewhere that they money from the Lost Camo clothes goes towards missionaries also...

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## cinchup1973 (Oct 19, 2011)

There are companies out there but most don't mix business with religion for fear of alienation of a single customer. This would be my guess.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Garceau said:


> How is the Government and the media attacking Christian faith?
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2



As a business owner, what's your thoughts on this?


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

hawglarry said:


> Some take it even further. Mathew McPhearson started Mission Archery who publicly states that all profit from the company goes to support Missionaries around the globe.



Is this true?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

freebird134 said:


> As a business owner, what's your thoughts on this?


I feel that ones faith is a personal preference. It doesnt sway me one way or another

With that said as others have mentioned i would expect the majority in our ranks as assimilate with Christian based faith.

Nor do i feel that the Gov is attacking Christian faith. However we must recognize one of the founding principles of this country.

As for Matt McPherson, he also donates all his merchandising licensing fees to charity as well.

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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Garceau said:


> As for Matt McPherson, he also donates all his merchandising licensing fees to charity as well.


"Charity" or "missionaries/Christian causes?" There is a difference to me.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I hear Christian type charities..... 

I dont want to put words in anyones mouth. So i try to pick them carefully

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## VAN DAM (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm not aware of any companies with different faiths. I know that I will gravitate toward companies that are bold in their christian faith and support christian causes. One of the reasons I love Mathews is because of how much they do and how much they donate, not to mention they make solid bows as well.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

VAN DAM said:


> I'm not aware of any companies with different faiths. I know that I will gravitate toward companies that are bold in their christian faith and support christian causes. One of the reasons I love Mathews is because of how much they do and how much they donate, not to mention they make solid bows as well.


Which leads into another question. While many here make comments on how we are glad of companies sharing their beliefs etc.....would we be just as supportive if they had something of Jewish faith? Islam? Pagan? Native American beliefs?



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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Garceau said:


> Which leads into another question. While many here make comments on how we are glad of companies sharing their beliefs etc.....would we be just as supportive if they had something of Jewish faith? Islam? Pagan? Native American beliefs?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2



This kind of objectivity makes me want to support G-Force Archery  I might have to drive up from Madison and see you guys.


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## Corn Fed (Apr 14, 2011)

Garceau said:


> Which leads into another question. While many here make comments on how we are glad of companies sharing their beliefs etc.....would we be just as supportive if they had something of Jewish faith? Islam? Pagan? Native American beliefs?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


I wouldnt...and it wouldnt be a good business move for them to do so. I dont think theres alot of Muslims into archery. But that's what makes America so great (for now). I persoanlly love the fact I have companies to deal with that stamp their faith on the their product. That gives me piece of mind as a buyer that my money will not be going to objectives that are contrary to what I believe. I will always try to take my business to a "Christian" company. I thank those companies that are bold enough to show it.


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## weekender21 (Jan 27, 2012)

Garceau said:


> How is the Government and the media attacking Christian faith?
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Is that a rhetorical question?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Corn Fed said:


> I wouldnt...and it wouldnt be a good business move for them to do so. I dont think theres alot of Muslims into archery. But that's what makes America so great (for now). I persoanlly love the fact I have companies to deal with that stamp their faith on the their product. That gives me piece of mind as a buyer that my money will not be going to objectives that are contrary to what I believe. I will always try to take my business to a "Christian" company. I thank those companies that are bold enough to show it.


And thats a perogative you and all of us are allowed to have as buyers and consumers in this country. But does not the Jewish faith do many great things that go hand in hand with our christian beliefs? Does not the Native American beliefs teach to take care of each other, share the bounty and celebrate the rewards of good fortune and hard work. I will not even mention the Islam faith - while there may be portions of their teachings that I may not necessarily believe in, there are also many good views and beliefs they are to teach. But its become too politicized in the previous 11 years because of what some of their persons did to our country in what they claim as the basis of their faith. 

Just as I condemn the extreme christians that take others lives in the name of their faith - people do bad things........as one of my great mentors said "There are 3000 religions in this world, whom are we to say which one is correct" 

Find a faith that most aligns with your views and practice that to the best of your ability. I support anyone that stands up with their beliefs - even if that doesnt necessarily align with mine. However there are lines I wont cross but thats my personal opinion and have no business here.


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## Soul Stealer (Feb 16, 2013)

I find whoring out your religion and faith to be distasteful practice.


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## thwacker (Dec 25, 2009)

Bowhuntr64 said:


> I really like it! QAD, Matthews and other big archery companies are bold with their faith.


Don't forget Athens Archery, although theirs is more subtle.


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## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

freebird134 said:


> So does anyone know of a hunting or archery company that publicly expresses a faith besides Christianity. Again, I buy products based on their quality and customer service, not religious beliefs, but I have to admit I'd love to see a stabilizer with a darwin fish on it


http://www.horsebows.com/index.htm
http://www.kassai.at/

http://littlehinduknives.com/archery-and-more
Not big name brand stuff, but interesting to say the least. Horseback archery.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Garceau said:


> Which leads into another question. While many here make comments on how we are glad of companies sharing their beliefs etc.....would we be just as supportive if they had something of Jewish faith? Islam? Pagan? Native American beliefs?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


If a company was open a proponent of Islam I would never purchase a product from them. Islam is different than any other "religion" in that I wouldn't take a chance on my dollar being used to support terrorism.


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## Bee Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Actually alot of companies do this. It depends on who owns them.


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## Bee Man (Feb 22, 2013)

-bowfreak- said:


> if a company was open a proponent of islam i would never purchase a product from them. Islam is different than any other "religion" in that i wouldn't take a chance on my dollar being used to support terrorism.


x10


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

-bowfreak- said:


> If a company was open a proponent of Islam I would never purchase a product from them. Islam is different than any other "religion" in that I wouldn't take a chance on my dollar being used to support terrorism.


You could say similar things about some christian groups


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## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

thwacker said:


> Don't forget Athens Archery, although theirs is more subtle.


Athens is AWESOME!


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

thwacker said:


> Don't forget Athens Archery, although theirs is more subtle.



Ohh noooo! Athens too????


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## detroit9mm (Mar 6, 2013)

In today's PC climate I applaud any company that is willing to publicly acknowledge their faith in Christ. I do not care how anyone tries to spin it, this country was founded and built on Christian principles and values. It is our heritage, no matter hw people may try to stamp that out. I'm a Christian but I don't jam it down anyones throat. Some may say it's a marketing ploy b ut in today's environment I think it takes a boldness to display any form of faith in advertising. It's one of the reasons I shoot a Diamond with a QAD rest.


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

I'm not going to read other posts in this thread other than the OP. for me and my family we will follow Jesus. I will always spend my money first with companies that support that view and also follow Jesus.


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## ElIntocable (Mar 19, 2008)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


Amen brother!


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## mikelleen (Feb 20, 2013)

It is an interesting question. As a Chistian I USED to be uncomfortable with companies that _blatently_ marketed their faith. My concern being that using Christianity to help with sales is counter to my view of my faith.

However in recent years, as rabid leftist attacks against both Christianity, and the freedom of speach to proclaim that faith, I now consider such public statements of faith both refreshing and brave.

Consider the Chik-Fil-A's recent controversy. The owner of the company stated his _ personal _ belief against gay marriage and his company was attacked by the rabid left. Just for stating an opinion. 

So I am for any company that publicly proclaims it's Christian faith. 

I think that the question got asked at all is suggestive of a larger problem in our society. Why should it bother anyone whether or not a verse or symbol is paced on a good being purchased? Why are we so "senitive" to such a simple thing? Serioualy if it bothers you that much then buy a different product.


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## tim15328 (Nov 8, 2011)

this is a great thread...and yes 100%of mission bows profits go to missionaries. it really helps me respect a company knowing there of christian background.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

tim15328 said:


> this is a great thread...and yes 100%of mission bows profits go to missionaries. it really helps me respect a company knowing there of christian background.


This is very good to know.


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## tim15328 (Nov 8, 2011)

if its not over done i dont see it as using faith to sell a product. Mr. mcpherson obviously isnt using it make money for himself. i think its awesome


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

tim15328 said:


> if its not over done i dont see it as using faith to sell a product. Mr. mcpherson obviously isnt using it make money for himself. i think its awesome


To each his own, and you can't fault him for doing right for what he believes. I don't know about Matthews, but for me a bible verse in big font on the front center of a Bowtech box is "over done." If Bowtech's didn't make such sweet bows, it could sway my choice to buy one. But it isn't going to (counting down days until I get my Insanity!)


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## pybowhtr (Nov 17, 2009)

dougedwards said:


> There is one thing for sure. It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate a man from his awareness that he only exists by the grace of God.
> 
> Putting a printed bible verse on a box or directly on the product may or may not enhance sales of that product but it does indicate that the company or the man that is responsible for the printing is aware that this life is about more than the products that we can produce.
> 
> ...


x2.


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## mikelleen (Feb 20, 2013)

freebird134 said:


> You could say similar things about some christian groups


Quoting extremists on either side of an issue and then trying to imply that all others on that side have the same view by association is counter productive to any real an intelligent discussion.

Your picture is really a good example of the typical left attack strategy. Find a picture or quote of a person saying or doing something that is way outside of the norm, and try to spin that as the norm. 

Really all that does is inflame bigotry against the group being attacked, in this case Christians.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

mikelleen said:


> Quoting extremists on either side of an issue and then trying to imply that all others on that side have the same view by association is counter productive to any real an intelligent discussion.
> 
> Your picture is really a good example of the typical left attack strategy. Find a picture or quote of a person saying or doing something that is way outside of the norm, and try to spin that as the norm.
> 
> Really all that does is inflame bigotry against the group being attacked, in this case Christians.



I agree entirely. I intended the picture to make the same point you are making here, but just in defense of people of other faiths not all being terrorists or terrible people. The poster I quoted was concerend that any muslim was a terrorist. I meant to say that was unfair, as would be treating all christians like they were similar to the Westborro church folks. No offense intended!


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## JeffShrugged (Dec 7, 2012)

freebird134 said:


> You could say similar things about some christian groups
> 
> View attachment 1631013


This is a picture of Westboro Baptist Church members. This is a fringe cult which currently has FORTY members, mostly within the same family. Just to put some context to this picture.


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## mikelleen (Feb 20, 2013)

hawglarry said:


> Some take it even further. Mathew McPhearson started Mission Archery who publicly states that all profit from the company goes to support Missionaries around the globe.


I did not know that. They just gained a new customer!


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## JLARCHERY (Jul 22, 2009)

I think it is AWESOME that there is christians and christain companys who are not afraid to give thanks to the one who blessed them to begin with!!!! And stand on what they believe, the only way this will offend anyone is if they themselves feel conviction for the way they are living and or believe. Im a shop owner and dont carry Bowtech or Mathews but i think it is awesome how openly they express there faith, oh and kinda funny how people who think faith is such a joke yet get so offended by it!!!!


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## brad86 (Mar 8, 2013)

Garceau said:


> And thats a perogative you and all of us are allowed to have as buyers and consumers in this country. But does not the Jewish faith do many great things that go hand in hand with our christian beliefs? Does not the Native American beliefs teach to take care of each other, share the bounty and celebrate the rewards of good fortune and hard work. I will not even mention the Islam faith - while there may be portions of their teachings that I may not necessarily believe in, there are also many good views and beliefs they are to teach. But its become too politicized in the previous 11 years because of what some of their persons did to our country in what they claim as the basis of their faith.
> 
> Just as I condemn the extreme christians that take others lives in the name of their faith - people do bad things........as one of my great mentors said "There are 3000 religions in this world, whom are we to say which one is correct"
> 
> Find a faith that most aligns with your views and practice that to the best of your ability. I support anyone that stands up with their beliefs - even if that doesnt necessarily align with mine. However there are lines I wont cross but thats my personal opinion and have no business here.


Thank you my friend. I wish there were more open minded and kind individuals such as yourself involved the outdoor sports. People are people. Good people are good people. All of the major religions preach peace. And all of the major religions have had INDIVIDUALS who, unfortuneatly, bent those teachigs to justify doing bad things. ALL major religions. Even Christianit. Judge people, as well as corporations, based on their actions and not blindly on their religiosity affiliation. 

Sorry for terrible spellings. I'm on my tablet.


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

Well "Free"bird, is that the sun on your shield? There is no harm in Gods word.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Reco111 said:


> Well "Free"bird, is that the sun on your shield? There is no harm in Gods word.


I don't know what this means.


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## kerrye (Sep 1, 2010)

Soul Stealer said:


> I find whoring out your religion and faith to be distasteful practice.


I find your post to be extremely distasteful. Who are you to judge what is in another's heart and mind?


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

The term _"Christian"_ has become so diluted that I am not sure of what it means exactly anymore. I surely don't necessarily purchase a product because it has the sign of a fish on it. Neither will I refrain from buying a product that I know is produced by those who are non Christian believers. Heck.......I would probably starve to death with that approach to life.....lol

The fact is that those who follow the teachings of Christ are to be peaceable people without malice and envy. I have no problem helping a Muslim or atheist. All have fallen short of the glory of God and require love and grace to be drawn to the truth. The Christian faith is not so much about sticking to your guns as it is loving your neighbor. Doesn't seem very loving to me to refuse to purchase products that are being sold by those with errant beliefs. 

This is not to say that I will not support those who give their profits to charity or missions. My money will go to those folks first but there is enough love to go around because the love of God is limitless.

Doug


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## DustyRx (Jul 10, 2008)

dougedwards said:


> The term _"Christian"_ has become so diluted that I am not sure of what it means exactly anymore. I surely don't necessarily purchase a product because it has the sign of a fish on it. Neither will I refrain from buying a product that I know is produced by those who are non Christian believers. Heck.......I would probably starve to death with that approach to life.....lol
> 
> The fact is that those who follow the teachings of Christ are to be peaceable people without malice and envy. I have no problem helping a Muslim or atheist. All have fallen short of the glory of God and require love and grace to be drawn to the truth. The Christian faith is not so much about sticking to your guns as it is loving your neighbor. Doesn't seem very loving to me to refuse to purchase products that are being sold by those with errant beliefs.
> 
> ...


Very good! 
There are a lot of fans but few followers.


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## Monster jimd (Mar 4, 2013)

Buck knifes also refer to their seignior partner as god


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

freebird134 said:


> I don't know what this means.


Of course you don't


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

I find that it is easier to judge a mans true faith by his acts, than the slogan on his t-shirt


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## flyinfatkid (Dec 17, 2011)

atennishu said:


> i find that it is easier to judge a mans true faith by his acts, than the slogan on his t-shirt


x10


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## peace (May 25, 2006)

Just purchased two dozen Muddy Bloodsport's Bloodline arrows because they are vocal about their Christian heritage and faith. I applaud any and all propagation of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. 
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek. 
For in it God’s righteousness is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written: The righteous will live by faith." Romans 1:16-17 (HCSB) 


*SMARTEN UP AND MARTIN UP*​


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## bro.betterley (Sep 8, 2007)

I am passionate about my faith it is my life, archery is my hobby. If it came down to it I would throw every piece of archery equipment in the trash to follow my relationship with the Lord.

I am a dealer for obsession archery, but every time I see a bowtech bow box it makes me want to buy one!


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

I am all about freedoms, and if an Islamic company wanted to put a quote from the Koran on their packaging, that is their prerogative. I doubt it will help them sell anything, but I will support their freedom to do so.

Personally, I prefer to support businesses that similar beliefs to my own, so it is helpful to have that info.

I do find it somewhat discouraging and hypocritical when there are those that will not buy something specifically because the owner of the company is a Christian or the business expresses Biblical references, but then criticize others as "close-minded" because those people say they would not purchase from a business associated w/Islam or atheism for the same reasons. It's a two-way street, but not always seen that way.


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## haywoodhunter (Aug 7, 2011)

hawglarry said:


> Some take it even further. Mathew McPhearson started Mission Archery who publicly states that all profit from the company goes to support Missionaries around the globe.


you beat me to it, i was gonna point out the same thing


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## shooter6687 (Mar 28, 2006)

This is a great thread..Keep it going..


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

optimal_max said:


> Personally, *I prefer to support businesses that similar beliefs to my own*, so it is helpful to have that info.
> 
> I do find it somewhat discouraging and *hypocritical when there are those that will not buy something specifically because the owner of the company is a Christian or the business expresses Biblical references*, but then criticize others as "close-minded" because those people say they would not purchase from a business associated w/Islam or atheism for the same reasons. It's a two-way street, but not always seen that way.


Aren't you pretty much doing the same thing? I'm not sure if you were referencing my previous statements, but to be clear I couldn't care less what anyone believes. I just don't need it posted all over my equipment. I buy good products that work well and last, not because of someone's belief system. I might not buy a product because I don't like where that money is going ultimately (eg, terrorism or missionaries) but I buy a lot of gear from good people that believe different things than I do.


Question still stands tho: any companies that are proudly non-christian? Just curious.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion.



Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Ugly_Duck (Mar 6, 2013)

The Mission line was created to support worldwide Missionaries and all profits go to that cause Ive heard this right from the Matthews reps. With all this being said I bought my new Athens bow, sight unseen after seeing the videos on their website showing how strong they are in their faith and passionate in what they do. I look at this at they will put their heart and soul into their product and they should have the integrity to stand behind it. Not saying other companies dont or wouldnt but IMHO it swayed my choice in a new bow. I also plan to pay with it in paper bills and every one of them has "In God We Trust" printed on them  Congrats on the new bow by the way, wish I could get mine to shoot one but Lord knows that wont be happening haha


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Ugly_Duck said:


> *Congrats on the new bow by the way, wish I could get mine to shoot one but Lord knows that wont be happening haha*


Thank you sir! BTW: I dig the Leopold quote in your signature :thumb:


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

bro.betterley said:


> I am passionate about my faith it is my life, archery is my hobby. If it came down to it I would throw every piece of archery equipment in the trash to follow my relationship with the Lord.
> 
> I am a dealer for obsession archery, but every time I see a bowtech bow box it makes me want to buy one!


If I ever buy an Obsession bow it will be from you. Very well said. The one thing I love as much as buying a new Bowtech is reading the verse that is in big bold letters on the front and center of the box....everyone that comes in for a tune job the first thing I do is read the verse.


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

dougedwards said:


> The term _"Christian"_ has become so diluted that I am not sure of what it means exactly anymore. I surely don't necessarily purchase a product because it has the sign of a fish on it. Neither will I refrain from buying a product that I know is produced by those who are non Christian believers. Heck.......I would probably starve to death with that approach to life.....lol
> 
> The fact is that those who follow the teachings of Christ are to be peaceable people without malice and envy. I have no problem helping a Muslim or atheist. All have fallen short of the glory of God and require love and grace to be drawn to the truth. The Christian faith is not so much about sticking to your guns as it is loving your neighbor. Doesn't seem very loving to me to refuse to purchase products that are being sold by those with errant beliefs.
> 
> ...


Amen Doug. You are a very well spoken individual:thumbs_up


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

Soul Stealer said:


> I find whoring out your religion and faith to be distasteful practice.


Based on this thread, it is a practice that seems to work.
Great marketing ploy - preach to the choir and they will buy.


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

SteveB said:


> Based on this thread, it is a practice that seems to work.
> Great marketing ploy - preach to the choir and they will buy.


If you think people buy a product based on religious beliefs and presentation of those beliefs you're mistaken. I buy bows based on performance and feel, the fact that Bowtech has a bible verse on their boxes and "In God we trust" on their limbs is an added bonus for me. I don't think their's a single one of us on here that's buys what we shoot based on religion....


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## giltyone (Nov 9, 2009)

More conflict has been caused by religion. Just saying.... I buy bows and arrows based on product quality. It doesn't need to be blessed, prayed over kosher, or whatever religious practice you follow. I'm more interested in people that can get along regardless of creed, race, or religion. How a person acts with others is why we have religion not the only reason for it.


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## James Kiser (Jul 19, 2011)

Stone point archery. The bow maker puts a bible verse on the bow and prays over it. He's made me 2. They are awesome bows. He is a great guy and a great preacher


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

I think you are right tony but it sounds like all else being equal (or close to it) some would give their money to the companies with fish and crosses


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

James Kiser said:


> Stone point archery. The bow maker puts a bible verse on the bow and prays over it. He's made me 2. They are awesome bows. He is a great guy and a great preacher


I just find that funny.


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## Z7XtremeHunter (Mar 3, 2013)

This reminds me of In and Out Burger. It seems that Christians only like to eat there because they were founded by a Christian and "John 3:16" is printed on the underside of the cups. Somehow this makes the food taste better. I hate the food either way, even when I didn't buy a drink, lol.


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## tony21 (Nov 18, 2009)

My girlfriends heartbreaker came with religious jargon on the box. Luckly she could care less cause she's not religious in any way and she loves the bow. I'm not against religions but if my new bow came with scripture on the box I would send it back. It seems in a way insulting to people that don't buy into religions and have the religious stuff in bold print edition n their shipping box. I see it as them saying "this is what we believe and since we hold high status in the sport we'll push it on you. Whay if m buddest and you throw john 3:16 on m box sayin I believe this and I'm right your wrong?


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## BowhunterCliffy (Feb 19, 2007)

Just putting a scripture on a product does NOT make said company a 'christian' company.
It is all about our personal actions, how we live our life every day.


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## Eastcoasthunter (Jul 9, 2012)

Religion sucks, its the downfall of our society and anyone thats pushes it on others should be put in their place!! U can believe but why follow a religion cause u tell me exactly what that does for you!!!


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

I am a believer in God and His works, I just find the majority of his followers irratating.

And about the Bible verses and Bowtech thing. If you are going to shoot a Bowtech, like I do, you bet your ass I am going to be a God fearing person. :wink::darkbeer:


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Eastcoasthunter said:


> Religion sucks, its the downfall of our society and anyone thats pushes it on others should be put in their place!! U can believe but why follow a religion cause u tell me exactly what that does for you!!!


On the other hand I also find non believers irritating also.


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

tony21 said:


> My girlfriends heartbreaker came with religious jargon on the box. Luckly she could care less cause she's not religious in any way and she loves the bow. I'm not against religions but if my new bow came with scripture on the box I would send it back. It seems in a way insulting to people that don't buy into religions and have the religious stuff in bold print edition n their shipping box. I see it as them saying "this is what we believe and since we hold high status in the sport we'll push it on you. Whay if m buddest and you throw john 3:16 on m box sayin I believe this and I'm right your wrong?


Do NOT buy a Bowtech if you don't want scripture on your box and "In God We Trust" on your limbs with an American flag. Lucky for you their's a lot of different company's to buy from.


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

JWaltrip said:


> On the other hand I also find non believers irritating also.


Yep. This thread didn't need that but some people can't help themselves but to leave negative comments.


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## Eastcoasthunter (Jul 9, 2012)

The truth hurts!


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## bowsrd (Jan 15, 2012)

I will try and support Christian organizations. It's hard for me to believe that a Christian would not support other Christians. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Tony219er said:


> Do NOT buy a Bowtech if you don't want scripture on your box and "In God We Trust" on your limbs with an American flag. Lucky for you their's a lot of different company's to buy from.


What I'm noticing is that there aren't a whole lot of options. Bible scriptures and 3:16s are about as common as camouflage!


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## steiny1228 (Oct 5, 2008)

kerrye said:


> I find your post to be extremely distasteful. Who are you to judge what is in another's heart and mind?


then you find 90% of this thread distasteful, because there are alot of people here saying that they wont support a Muslim company. They are Judging other people just as much. I have just spent the past 9 months deployed, embedded with members of the Afghan Army, MUSLIMS, Soliders, sergeants, and Officers alike, some can read and write, while some cant. Some speak english, and several local dialects, while others only speak their local tongue. I wasnt attacked, I wasnt violated, I wasnt condemned to death by these "animals" as we call them. As a matter of fact they were very good host, always making sure we were taken care of, very grateful for what america, and americans stood for and the help that we were providing their country. Especially after getting in a Firefight side by side with them against the enemy. Islam is not the enemy, Just as Westboro baptist is a branch of Christianity, extreme islam is a branch as well. Sure there are bad people out there, Just as there are bad people here but to generalize a whole culture/religion I feel is more distasteful then anything else.


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## Sneezy (Dec 4, 2012)

steiny1228 said:


> then you find 90% of this thread distasteful, because there are alot of people here saying that they wont support a Muslim company. They are Judging other people just as much. I have just spent the past 9 months deployed, embedded with members of the Afghan Army, MUSLIMS, Soliders, sergeants, and Officers alike, some can read and write, while some cant. Some speak english, and several local dialects, while others only speak their local tongue. I wasnt attacked, I wasnt violated, I wasnt condemned to death by these "animals" as we call them. As a matter of fact they were very good host, always making sure we were taken care of, very grateful for what america, and americans stood for and the help that we were providing their country. Especially after getting in a Firefight side by side with them against the enemy. Islam is not the enemy, Just as Westboro baptist is a branch of Christianity, extreme islam is a branch as well. Sure there are bad people out there, Just as there are bad people here but to generalize a whole culture/religion I feel is more distasteful then anything else.





I'd love to support a local Afghan hash producer no better old school hash makers then the Afghan's no matter what religion they are.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

I never thought that companies could be Christian, even if there are adherants that work for said company.  It's a belief system and companies don't have beliefs.

So that leaves us with a sales angle. They found the majority of archery equipment buyers were in the US and the bought mostly hunting bows. They also realized that the vast majority of suburban and rural bowhunters were also Christians. So they padded their sales by printing a couple verses.

That's what makes the most sense anyway.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

steiny1228 said:


> then you find 90% of this thread distasteful, because there are alot of people here saying that they wont support a Muslim company. They are Judging other people just as much. I have just spent the past 9 months deployed, embedded with members of the Afghan Army, MUSLIMS, Soliders, sergeants, and Officers alike, some can read and write, while some cant. Some speak english, and several local dialects, while others only speak their local tongue. I wasnt attacked, I wasnt violated, I wasnt condemned to death by these "animals" as we call them. As a matter of fact they were very good host, always making sure we were taken care of, very grateful for what america, and americans stood for and the help that we were providing their country. Especially after getting in a Firefight side by side with them against the enemy. Islam is not the enemy, Just as Westboro baptist is a branch of Christianity, extreme islam is a branch as well. Sure there are bad people out there, Just as there are bad people here but to generalize a whole culture/religion I feel is more distasteful then anything else.


Great post. Thanks for your comments and thanks for your service!


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## TeamRealTree (Aug 21, 2012)

For a company like mathews to create a line "Misson" and they donate 100%! profite? That is just unreal to me.. If you guy's did you research a lot of the popular companies and organizations that people donate too such as red cross, salvation army ect ect (those are just examples) only a small percentage goes to the actual cause and the ceo's make six figures in a lot of cases! Makes me proud to own a mathews.. I am a christian but I don't care what cause it was for.. To me it just seems selfless and worthy of honor to help others when surely he didn't have to create the "mission" line.


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## yeahyeah (Feb 3, 2013)

Tax shelter?


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

yeahyeah said:


> Tax shelter?


While I believe Mat giving proceeds to charities is freakin' awesome, you do have a point here. It would be a MASSIVE tax writeoff, wouldn't it?


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

Not a big deal....its the freedom we have in this country.
We are moving away from our Christian heritage however.
Even religious liberty is at stake. I say PTL to these companies !!


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

Wow ....after reading some answers, maybe they just want to spread the good news!


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

After some more reading, I think freebird just likes to push buttons....
Pointless really.


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

http://www.duckcommander.com/duckmen/profile/23/alan_robertson.aspx


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## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

Bowhuntr64 said:


> I really like it! QAD, Matthews and other big archery companies are bold with their faith.



Spot on! Couldn't have said it any better. I hope and pray they stick with it.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

catkinson said:


> After some more reading, I think freebird just likes to push buttons....
> Pointless really.


Really? I don't think that's fair. I've been pretty dang polite and said many times I still buy products even though I don't like christian messages on the stuff I buy. I go out of my way to treat everyone equally and with respect despite religious differences, no matter how ridiculous I think some people's beliefs are. And I still buy products from those people. It is interesting to me, however, that I cannot find archery equipment made by people with a belief system like mine. I know those people exists, but this thread has made it clear that their business could not survive in this christian dominated sport because a lot of christian archers would buy an inferior product just because it has a cross on it. Based on that, I'd agree with your post #98 where you said religious liberty is at stake: non-christians are not really free to be open about their beliefs in the archery industry because of religious prejudice favoring Christians. 

Sorry for that divergence, I just don't appreciate being called out as a button pusher when I really was trying to gather information. It seems my speculation was correct: there aren't any openly non-christian companies.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

giltyone said:


> More conflict has been caused by religion. Just saying.... I buy bows and arrows based on product quality. It doesn't need to be blessed, prayed over kosher, or whatever religious practice you follow. I'm more interested in people that can get along regardless of creed, race, or religion. How a person acts with others is why we have religion not the only reason for it.


I am a Christian. I am not religious.

The Sanhedrin were religious.


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## smokin12ring (Dec 4, 2002)

standing up for your faith is what it is all about , the lord wants us to spread our faith , people gave there lives for the the lord and this country, this country was founded on christian believe ,NO MATTER what they say in the schools or the white house


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Alright - here is where I probably will get slammed. Hopefully others can read it with an open mind and not judge without pondering at least my perspective and respecting it as that.

I was baptized Catholic, was active in the church while younger, participated in Mass, assited with communion, confirmed Catholic and married in a Catholic church to a Catholic wife from a Catholic family. She went to a Catholic H.S that her mother taught at, she as an adult went to a Catholic College, and up until a few years ago was very active in our local church.

I find myself at times struggling with the entire ideal of religion - and I even more struggle with it in terms of our country. I will speak to that later in this babbling....

We consistently hear "this country was founded on Christian principles" "in God we trust" "pledge of allegiance" etc.....

What I struggle with is the entire existence for this country being founded was to avoid the imposition of a Church state, they wanted religious freedom and the ability to practice what/how they sought fit. When we begin talking about our founding fathers, reading scripts you cannot misplace the hipocrasy in it all. Of course they were all individual men, and I believe sometimes that is lost when speaking of them and grouping them as we are, and I just have....

The group given credit for "framing the U.S" as we know it were religous in varying degrees. But many of the arcticles and proclimations they wrote mentioned God, referenced it and some even preached it. They appear to have ventured from some of their own meanings at times, they speak of Seperation of Churct/State all while imposing their beliefs amongst their constitutients. Jefferson was very much accredited for much of the seperation of church/state yet allowed many articles and refrence to God in the creating of this great nation. Often times his own words were changed, he was very miticulous in his framing of statements to not alienate others. However he wasnt beyond his own issues and hiprocrasy - he writes that "we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal" all while having a plantation full of slaves. But to error is human I suppose.

I constantly hear about the pledge of Allegiance and how it references God - in its original version and used for many years it had no reference to God in it. Why was it put in? What about seperation? It has been ratified several times through the years - you all can form your own personal opinion on whether it was for the betterment or not. I try not to judge to much.

Over the period of my adult life I struggled with my own religion. As a Catholic Im apalled by the lack of recourse or accountability that went about in the church for far too long. I was brought up hearing how God created us all equal, yet in many of the Christian (as well as other religions) gatherings that is not the case. Women arent given the same voice, vote, or position/abilities. Those of an alternate lifestyle are cast aside, and judgement is consistently placed upon them. Many of my issues stem directly from the judgement of many so called Christians. I was told by my priest I was to give a percentage of my income to the Church that it was the right thing to do - I stated why do I need to be in church to be near God? I was very content in his presence in just about any setting and if I felt I needed to reach for him he would be there. I used to be very difficult and very judgemental on many aspects. Since I have attempted to lessen that to a major degree is when I began to see things in a different light all around me. I saw priests doing things they knew they shouldnt have and writing it off as just being fallable man and going about their business, I saw the biggest "church goers" out and about on a daily basis doing things they shouldnt have yet since they felt they went to church on Sunday they were better than I. Yet they often all sat in judgement of myself and others - I want to ask why? Nobody could ever give me an answer.

I began to read/study/question other religions. I think most religions want for us to treat each other well, wish no harm and peace on others regardless of our differences. I am intrigued in the way the Native Americans reference various gods and give thanks, i am intrigued at some of the devotion of several Jewish sects as well as those true practices of the Islam faith. I think we all can take things from each religion and learn something, if not human kindness. The Dahli Lama says it best in many aspects - his religion is simple "kindness"

I dont offer assistance to those in need as much as I should, I still find myself passing judgement all to often. I work in a business where that is a given and expected, but its difficult to lay that aside when I leave my place of work.

As I stated earlier - I respect just about anyones abilities to lay their faith out for all to see regardless of the outcome. We praise the companies that do it in the areas where I agree or their ideas are similar to mine. Yet many wouldnt be the least amount of open to something different than ours, when in reality the goal of most religions is the same. We arent of this world long enough to let little things determine so much of our lives - relax people, look around. We arent all the same, not everyone has the exact same beliefs - even working in the worlds most darkest, pits of dispair that I do, I need to stop sometimes and think that others helped me get here, others have made this place what it is, the Country was founded as a melting pot - yet we consistently fight against that trend, people have made millions resisting that trend.

OK after many breaks in this and coming back to it I have no idea how it will all read - I know whats in my head/my heart but not sure I can completely portray it without being scrutinized for my openness.

A company has every right to post what ever saying they want on any product, religoius or not. I as a consumer have every right to choose my purchases for any reason I want. I wont judge you for purchasing for one reason or another.......

Have fun people - smile. None of us are getting out of here alive, what we choose to believe in afterwards is our own personal feelings.


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

Christ has given me the power to fight the disease of alcoholism. 

If a private company wants to put a Bible verse on their product...amen.

Remember Trijicon putting a Bible verse on their sights and the Muslims and secularists creating an uproar. I totally respect Trijicon for standing their ground.


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## Riven370 (Mar 20, 2013)

I saw a study somewhere on the effects of sales of sales and if people would or wouldn't buy a product if it had Christian / biblical verses attached to the product. The results were that the impact on sales was very limited. People bought the product because they liked it and were very satisfied with the product. They didn't care what if it had biblical verses or Christianity based sayings.


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## Riven370 (Mar 20, 2013)

@ Garceau. The original freedom of religion is the fact that the founding people came to escape religious persecution of their faith. It wasn't until later that there were different "faiths" in America. So technically it meant their faiths religious freedom. 

As to all the bad things done by priests etc. everyone will be and is accountable to God.. We and I know even I at times judge though I know I'm no where close to being able to judge. We are to compare ourselves to Christ which we will never compare truly, but that's where it's we have to accept our sinful nature and commit that it's God who saved us, not us or our works or our "Hail Mary's" or our confessions. 

It is everyone's own personal choice to follow Or not to follow God


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## ConquestLady (Jul 18, 2008)

To each there own, as an agnostic it turns me off that these faiths that claim to be charitable are still making and selling these products for profit. Good that we are in a free country and I can refrain from buying stuff with propaganda on it.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Garceau said:


> Alright - here is where I probably will get slammed. Hopefully others can read it with an open mind and not judge without pondering at least my perspective and respecting it as that.
> 
> I was baptized Catholic, was active in the church while younger, participated in Mass, assited with communion, confirmed Catholic and married in a Catholic church to a Catholic wife from a Catholic family. She went to a Catholic H.S that her mother taught at, she as an adult went to a Catholic College, and up until a few years ago was very active in our local church.
> 
> ...


Kevin,

I think you are spot on with respect to religion. I think you are the perfect example of someone who believes in God and has a good moral background but you have issues with religion. You are not alone. I think you would flourish in a non-denominational Christian church. Churches like the one I go to have no governing body. We answer to no one other than good. The idea behind this type of church is to mimic the original church and have no MAN MADE practices. So...if it is not in the Bible specifically it is not a part of our church. I am not saying it is the only way to go but it is the most logical way to me. Are we perfect? Far from it....we are human therefore sinners but we strive to do God's will.

Jesus himself accused the Sanhedrin of being religious. He basically said they were too hung up on their own rules and not worried about what God really wanted.

As far as alternative lifestyle....the issue that churches who adhere to the teachings of the Bible have with homosexuality is that God considers it detestable. His word's not mine. This doesn't mean gays are not welcome in a church it means that you are a sinner who is NOT turning away from your sin if you are ACTIVELY living a homosexual life. This would be no different that a thief or an adulterer not repenting and continuing to live that lifestyle. If you are OPENLY a thief or an adulterer and not repentant there is literally no difference. Which is why most churches would (should) allow openly gay members but not allow them to teach Sunday School or hold a position in the church such as Deacon or Elder. Likewise...if you are a non-repentant thief, liar or any other sin you would and should be treated the same. Our P.C. country sees gays being treated unfairly but I am pretty sure they would be ok with a church shunning a known thief, liar, adulterer or murderer who has not repented of their sins. 

As far as giving 10%. I have know issue with it as we were commanded by God to do so.

I do appreciate your candidness and hope you have a great day.


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## Mallardbreath (Dec 7, 2007)

freebird134 said:


> To each his own, and you can't fault him for doing right for what he believes. I don't know about Matthews, but for me a bible verse in big font on the front center of a Bowtech box is "over done." If Bowtech's didn't make such sweet bows, it could sway my choice to buy one. But it isn't going to (counting down days until I get my Insanity!)


You are the guy Bowtech is hoping will read and reflect on the verse. A Christian is supposed to spread the gospel. Some of us are horrible at it. Some of us are very gifted at it. Bowtech is doing what God has told them to do. Planting seeds. They want to plant a seed in your mind also.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Mallardbreath said:


> You are the guy Bowtech is hoping will read and reflect on the verse. A Christian is supposed to spread the gospel. Some of us are horrible at it. Some of us are very gifted at it. Bowtech is doing what God has told them to do. Planting seeds. They want to plant a seed in your mind also.


If this is true, it does make me not want to buy their product. There is a difference between the intentions of putting something on your product to proudly display your faith, or as you suggest, trying to change who I am and what I believe. That's not cool, whether or not you think god told you to do it or not.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

-bowfreak- said:


> Kevin,
> 
> I think you are spot on with respect to religion. I think you are the perfect example of someone who believes in God and has a good moral background but you have issues with religion. You are not alone. I think you would flourish in a non-denominational Christian church. Churches like the one I go to have no governing body. We answer to no one other than good. The idea behind this type of church is to mimic the original church and have no MAN MADE practices. So...if it is not in the Bible specifically it is not a part of our church. I am not saying it is the only way to go but it is the most logical way to me. Are we perfect? Far from it....we are human therefore sinners but we strive to do God's will.
> 
> ...


Ah the Bible - glad you brought that up as I missed it. Although I cant quote scriptures and have been enjoying the mini-series. I have many issues with the Bible as its to be "Gods word" yet is written by fallable man, all throughout history, it has been changed through time and parts taken out.....how can parts of "Gods word" be taken out?

A group of men, sat upon judgement of Gods own words? They decided to remove them? or did they decide that what was taken as Gods word was incorrect? If that was the case which part is correct?

Again its much simpler to say "be kind"


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

Bought my first release because of what TRU Ball had on their packaging. Proud to have shot their release since getting back into archery. Great company that is active in the community and fully stands behind their products.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Garceau said:


> Ah the Bible - glad you brought that up as I missed it. Although I cant quote scriptures and have been enjoying the mini-series. I have many issues with the Bible as its to be "Gods word" yet is written by fallable man, all throughout history, it has been changed through time and parts taken out.....how can parts of "Gods word" be taken out?
> 
> A group of men, sat upon judgement of Gods own words? They decided to remove them? or did they decide that what was taken as Gods word was incorrect? If that was the case which part is correct?
> 
> Again its much simpler to say "be kind"


The Bible is the inspired word of God.

The Bible is prophetic. The book of Isiah tells of the messiah 800+ years before he walked the Earth....I can go on and on.

It is historically accurate. 

The 66 books of the Christian Bible were canonized and accepted based on their belief to be authentic and inspired writings of God. All books omitted were considered fallacy, historically inaccurate or not written by a prophet of God and therefore not the word of God.

Also...."be kind" is not much simpler. It is nice to be kind but my personal belief system tells me hell will be full of nice people. I know that people scoff when people speak like that but I don't think being nice ALONE means anything. God's grace is unending and accepting Him through the son is the ticket to salvation....the only ticket.


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

-bowfreak- said:


> The Bible is the inspired word of God.
> 
> The Bible is prophetic. The book of Isiah tells of the messiah 800+ years before he walked the Earth....I can go on and on.
> 
> ...


Amen. The Proverb, "The path to Heaven is paved with good intentions".


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## Pastor Jamie (Dec 21, 2010)

Overall, I think this has been a pretty good discussion. I've read the whole thing. Here's my take on it...

It is hard to know the motivations of a company (unless they outright tell you), as to why they may print Scripture on their products, or be more open about their faith. If they are doing it as an act of worship, gratitude to God, obedience to Christ (and His command to share the gospel), good for them. I think they have to be aware it may turn some people off, but that happens; they have to weigh the pros and cons and do as they feel led, and not get offended if others get offended.

If they are doing it to make more money (bring Christians their way for business), I am less supportive of that. Profit should never be used as a reason to share one's faith. Having said that, any person is in their right to buy from a company who aligns with their worldview/faith if they want to; I have no problem with that. But personally, I wouldn't buy a less-than-quality product from a company just because they claim to be Christian.

I will say that any company, in my opinion, who is open and public with their Christian faith has the responsibilty to act with the utmost integrity (ex. advertising), have the best customer service, go out of their way for people (even above and beyond), strive to have the best products (excellence is NOT unChristian!), and realize they will be scrutinized more (they had better recognize that and embrace it). They should set the standard in the business.

We are approaching a weekend when we are celebrating Jesus, Who set the standard for humanity, and Who gave His best with His crucifxion and resurrection. Those who claim His name should be willing to also set a high standard, and give their best. While perfection is never totally obtainable this side of heaven, companies who claim the name of Christ should reflect Him in as many ways as possible.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Pastor Jamie said:


> I will say that any company, in my opinion, who is open and public with their Christian faith has the responsibilty to act with the utmost integrity (ex. advertising), have the best customer service, go out of their way for people (even above and beyond), strive to have the best products (excellence is NOT unChristian!), and realize they will be scrutinized more (they had better recognize that and embrace it). They should set the standard in the business.
> 
> We are approaching a weekend when we are celebrating Jesus, Who set the standard for humanity, and Who gave His best with His crucifxion and resurrection. Those who claim His name should be willing to also set a high standard, and give their best. While perfection is never totally obtainable this side of heaven, companies who claim the name of Christ should reflect Him in as many ways as possible.


Excellent! Thank you.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

Makes me want to buy a bowtech! Your money says in god we trust ! If you don't like Christian advertising send those greenbacks to me! Christianity is NOT a religion it's a RELATIONSHIP , JESUS gave his life for you so you could have a Relationship with GOD ,the GOSPEL is good news !!!


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## lunk2002 (Jul 22, 2006)

-bowfreak- said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thieves, liars, adulterers and murderers do harm unto others. Homosexuals do not. (No more than heterosexuals anyways.)


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

-bowfreak- said:


> The Bible is the inspired word of God.
> 
> 
> It is historically accurate.
> ...


My point exactly - whom considered them to be Historically accurate? - Fallable man. Matter of fact was it not the men of Constatine that had items removed that didnt express his beliefs in how the church should venture forward?

Im not saying what is in the Bible is wrong, Im not saying what was left out was correct..... but when I ask these questions, I always get different answers and nobody can lay claim to exactly things that were omitted. Some books have vanished forever, some were recovered and have been mentioned and others were changed.


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## STORMINMOOSE (Dec 20, 2009)

Faith !


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## bardman (Oct 18, 2006)

I have tremendous faith. More of the arc angel type but I do not buy things because you had to tell me your a Christian. 

I do not believe that it has to be shoved in my face, when it should be obvious. 

I think that most use God to make money off of the sheep more so then out of true conviction. 

The ones shouting the loudest are usually the ones tring to convince themselves the most. MTC


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## Mallardbreath (Dec 7, 2007)

lunk2002 said:


> Thieves, liars, adulterers and murderers do harm unto others. Homosexuals do not. (No more than heterosexuals anyways.)


Sins are sins. They don't have to be hurtful to others. Getting bombed out of my mind or lusting another woman is sinful, but it doesn't hurt anyone else.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

lunk2002 said:


> Thieves, liars, adulterers and murderers do harm unto others. Homosexuals do not. (No more than heterosexuals anyways.)


Many are guilty of casually omitting the parts of the Bible that cramp their style. The Bible doesn't parse sin like this. God said that homosexuality is detestable. That is good enough for me. 



Garceau said:


> My point exactly - whom considered them to be Historically accurate? - Fallable man. Matter of fact was it not the men of Constatine that had items removed that didnt express his beliefs in how the church should venture forward?
> 
> Im not saying what is in the Bible is wrong, Im not saying what was left out was correct..... but when I ask these questions, I always get different answers and nobody can lay claim to exactly things that were omitted. Some books have vanished forever, some were recovered and have been mentioned and others were changed.



Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God? Do you accept him as your personal savior? If so....you have the main thing which is......the main thing. I have questions like you BUT I know in my heart that Jesus walked this Earth and was sent here to save all of us from our sins. I want all the answers but I don't let my questions keep me from having faith.
Like the post below yours said....FAITH.


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## bowsrd (Jan 15, 2012)

Riven370 said:


> @ Garceau. The original freedom of religion is the fact that the founding people came to escape religious persecution of their faith. It wasn't until later that there were different "faiths" in America. So technically it meant their faiths religious freedom.
> 
> As to all the bad things done by priests etc. everyone will be and is accountable to God.. We and I know even I at times judge though I know I'm no where close to being able to judge. We are to compare ourselves to Christ which we will never compare truly, but that's where it's we have to accept our sinful nature and commit that it's God who saved us, not us or our works or our "Hail Mary's" or our confessions.
> 
> It is everyone's own personal choice to follow Or not to follow God


Exactly right.


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## rtaylor (Nov 17, 2010)

I have to ask. What verse is on the box?


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Congrats AT! I don't know very many other sites that a religious themed topic would have survived on the main thread area without being dumped into another all-purpose thread section or closed down entirely due to excessive arguing and name-calling.

I've already chimed in a few times, but I will again. I would like to know how adding a Bible verse to the outside of a box is "forcing religion" down anyone's throat. It's just a box. If you don't like it, it is easy just to throw it away and shoot the bow. Not a big deal. I am more bothered by the ridiculous number of safety warnings being shoved down my throat on. And why do food items have to shove the ingredients and expiration dates down my throat. I kid, but you get the point.


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## STORMINMOOSE (Dec 20, 2009)

You've already purchased the product to be able to see what is on the box so I don't believe that are using Christianity to sell their product.


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## yhudson (Apr 24, 2011)

When I see Christian verses written on a product I always thought the company was just posting a thoughtful phrase, not trying to posture themselves. I like reading various scripture because in most cases the thoughts are timeless. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

rtaylor said:


> I have to ask. What verse is on the box?


I don't know. For me it's kind of like a billboard--an eyesore I notice but am not going to waste time reading. I did just check and I guess I had accidentally ripped 1/2 of it off when I pulled some tape off the box.


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Sometimes I think the Bible was written by the extreme left wing liberals of the time and started all this messy debating.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

optimal_max said:


> I would like to know how adding a Bible verse to the outside of a box is "forcing religion" down anyone's throat. It's just a box. If you don't like it, it is easy just to throw it away and shoot the bow. Not a big deal. I am more bothered by the ridiculous number of safety warnings being shoved down my throat on. And why do food items have to shove the ingredients and expiration dates down my throat. I kid, but you get the point.


I know you were joking, but I think you are on to something! For those of us that think the bible is make-believe, a bible verse on a product or a reference to god or other imaginary creatures is equivalent to all the unnecessary safety warnings and expirations dates that bother you (and me too!). They are irrelevant, distracting, and a waste of ink. I don't mean to be offensive, but as an agnostic bordering on atheism "In God We Trust" makes as much sense as "In Santa Clause We Trust."


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

JWaltrip said:


> Sometimes I think the Bible was written by the extreme left wing liberals of the time and started all this messy debating.


lol. There is little doubt that Jesus was the original left wing hippie. But that's a discussion for a different thread!


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## cheaplaughs (Mar 27, 2005)

I personally like them but that's because I believe.


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## Bone Hed Killer (May 13, 2010)

I my self dont care what other people think & do as long as it dont hert me and my family. 
I believe in if u dont like it dont buy it.
If you dont want to read it , dont look at it.
If you dont want to watch it , dont look at it.
These are our & your writes........But if your a American then you understand that this country was based upon these words.
And like it or not the American flag & god go together. 
Together we stand & Divide we fall! Look where this country is write know!
Think you & god bless.


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

Well I think it is all of our jobs to spread the Word in any Tasteful way we can! Having the courage to put a biblical quote on a Bowtech Box seems Pretty Darn Cool To Me!


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## srcarlso (Mar 3, 2005)

Bowhuntr64 said:


> I really like it! QAD, Matthews and other big archery companies are bold with their faith.


Agreed...I know where they stand


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## nagle (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm an atheist and see no problem with putting religious references on one's own possessions. Using it as a marketing tool seems a bit cheap.


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

I honestly don't think that the owner of Bowtech placed bible verses on the boxes to sell more. I think he did it because he is a Christian and thought of it as a great opportunity to get the word of God out to the public. Why do so many unbelievers feel so threatened by it? Never mind, I know the answer.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

freebird134 said:


> lol. There is little doubt that Jesus was the original left wing hippie. But that's a discussion for a different thread!


Maybe there was some hippie in the sixties who healed the sick and the lame and willingly sacrificed his own life for the love of all mankind but I must have missed it. I know of only ONE.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

nagle said:


> I'm an atheist and see no problem with putting religious references on one's own possessions. Using it as a marketing tool seems a bit cheap.


So do the bible verses and other propaganda influence whether or not you buy a product. I don't personally feel like we have a choice. All the good bow companies seem to be waving a cross. Anyone know about Hoyt? I'm actually not a huge Hoyt fan, but I've also never seen Jesus stuff with Hoyt





dougedwards said:


> Maybe there was some hippie in the sixties who healed the sick and the lame and willingly sacrificed his own life for the love of all mankind but I must have missed it. I know of only ONE.


Sounds like a pretty left-wing hippie mentality to me. Sure doesn't sound like a guy that would vote Romney. But, again, not the point of this thread...


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## talon1961 (Mar 13, 2008)

It's Bowtech's right to put what ever they want on their boxes, just like everyone else has the same right. There are several companies that have the intestinal fortitude to stand up for what they believe and are not ashamed. I am a Christian, by choice. I will gladly share with anyone who desires to know more, but I will not try to force my belief on anyone. I'm not ashamed of what I believe and I put my trust entirely in the God I serve and Christ Jesus who is my Lord and Savior. I admit, I do have a tendency to identify with others who share my beliefs. I put a verse from the Bible in my signature, not to ram my faith down anyone's throat, but to let others see who I am and what I stand for.


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## brad86 (Mar 8, 2013)

Garceau: Thank you for your thoughts. It was refreshing, I think we'd get along fine in real, non-cyber life. Here's to you. :darkbeer:


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## Z7XtremeHunter (Mar 3, 2013)

Tony219er said:


> Do NOT buy a Bowtech if you don't want scripture on your box and "In God We Trust" on your limbs with an American flag. Lucky for you their's a lot of different company's to buy from.


Yeah, you might want to stay away from US currency too. You don't want those words "In God We Trust" to get you in the behind. They'll be waiting in your wallet waiting to bite you in the ass when you least expect it.

If a company makes a quality product, why does it matter what is written on it? Do the arrows not fly straight if a Christian message is on the limbs?


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## Eastcoasthunter (Jul 9, 2012)

General RE LEE said:


> Christ has given me the power to fight the disease of alcoholism.
> 
> If a private company wants to put a Bible verse on their product...amen.
> 
> Remember Trijicon putting a Bible verse on their sights and the Muslims and secularists creating an uproar. I totally respect Trijicon for standing their ground.


He did did he? Well I believe your will power and love for life help you beat your disease and wanting to be there when your kids and grand kids grow up, I proud of u but u should take credit for it NOT Jesus!!!


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## dwagaman (Nov 7, 2010)

I find all of it to be very lame. I have to log off now and go outside and dance in my underwear or the sun will not rise tomorrow.................................


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## Z7XtremeHunter (Mar 3, 2013)

Eastcoasthunter said:


> He did did he? Well I believe your will power and love for life help you beat your disease and wanting to be there when your kids and grand kids grow up, I proud of u but u should take credit for it NOT Jesus!!!


I think he means that Christ gave him the inspiration to overcome his addiction.


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## bobcat91 (Oct 18, 2006)

rtaylor said:


> I have to ask. What verse is on the box?


I believe it is 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (KJV)


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

bobcat91 said:


> I believe it is 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (KJV)


I think it should have been 1 Timothy 3:15. I don't like empty assertions. :wink:


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

freebird134 said:


> So do the bible verses and other propaganda influence whether or not you buy a product. I don't personally feel like we have a choice. All the good bow companies seem to be waving a cross. Anyone know about Hoyt? I'm actually not a huge Hoyt fan, but I've also never seen Jesus stuff with Hoyt
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good point. I am guessing he would be more likely to vote for a guy who voted to allow babies who survived botched abortions suffer until they die.


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## Guardian Shoote (Jan 11, 2007)

well stated :thumbs_up




tenpin said:


> This is why AMERICA is the greatest country in the world.. our freedoms..... Besides your own personal beliefs of who is right or wrong... try this in another country and you could be punished up to death. America will always rein supreme as long as we have freedom.. I will always live by standing for what I believe..


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

Oxygen is a critical and necessary element to sustain all life forms as we know them. We can't see, feel, smell, hear or taste it. 

It was only about 200 years ago that the public was totally unaware of the existence of the oxygen molecule because there was no knowledge of atoms in general. In those times, if you were to speak about this sensually undetectable life sustaining particle in the air you would be laughed to scorn for believing in such imaginary foolishness.

If a man speaks or prints about a reality that he knows as truth he must be prepared to experience the scoffing of those who cannot see. 

_14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. _*1 Cor 2:14*


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

dougedwards said:


> Oxygen is a critical and necessary element to sustain all life forms as we know them. We can't see, feel, smell, hear or taste it.


But we can test and verify/falsify that oxygen exists. It's how we know after all. :wink: Or are you suggesting we're going to be able to build a "god sensor"? Because the stuff going on inside your head or mine isn't falsifiable evidence and is far from being credible enough to call it factual.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

...and Buster ruins the thread by running off-topic and turning into a philosophy discussion. Yes, it's an unwinnable argument from both sides. God planned it that way. :shade:


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## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

Buster of Xs said:


> But we can test and verify/falsify that oxygen exists. It's how we know after all. :wink: *Or are you suggesting we're going to be able to build a "god sensor"? *Because the stuff going on inside your head or mine isn't falsifiable evidence and is far from being credible enough to call it factual.


No need in that Buster. The whole world is going to get a dose of reality on that one. And by the way things are shaping up on this earth, it won't be too much longer either.:wink:


Happy Shooting. 

Skeet.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

optimal_max said:


> ...and Buster ruins the thread by running off-topic and turning into a philosophy discussion. Yes, it's an unwinnable argument from both sides. God planned it that way. :shade:


Nah, god was designed that way. :wink:

Whether or not there are scriptural verses placed on products IS a philosophical discussion, or it's a marketing discussion. Take your pick.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

Skeeter 58 said:


> No need in that Buster. The whole world is going to get a dose of reality on that one. And by the way things are shaping up on this earth, it won't be too much longer either.:wink:
> 
> 
> Happy Shooting.
> ...


Really, Skeet? No need for reason or critical thought? Seriously?


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## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

Buster of Xs said:


> Really, Skeet? No need for reason or critical thought? Seriously?


It's already been clearly been laid out a few thousand years ago. Most everything in the Bible has come true.


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## Sneezy (Dec 4, 2012)

Buster of Xs said:


> But we can test and verify/falsify that oxygen exists. It's how we know after all. :wink: Or are you suggesting we're going to be able to build a "god sensor"? Because the stuff going on inside your head or mine isn't falsifiable evidence and is far from being credible enough to call it factual.


interestingly here is a slightly different view of this ideal but also a slight digressions 

" In a game of chess you can make certain arbitrary concessions to your opponent, which stand to the ordinary rules of the game as miracles stand to the laws of nature. You can deprive yourself of a castle, or allow the other man sometimes to take back a move made inadvertently. But if you conceded everything that at any moment happened to suit him—if all his moves were revocable and if all your pieces disappeared whenever their position on the board was not to his liking—then you could not have a game at all. So it is with the life of souls in a world: fixed laws, consequences unfolding by causal necessity, the whole natural order, are at once limits within which their common life is confined and also the sole condition under which any such life is possible. Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself."
—from The Problem of Pain


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

Buster of Xs said:


> But we can test and verify/falsify that oxygen exists. It's how we know after all. :wink: Or are you suggesting we're going to be able to build a "god sensor"? Because the stuff going on inside your head or mine isn't falsifiable evidence and is far from being credible enough to call it factual.


Sure, we can test/verify the existence of molecules NOW but there was a time when that was not practically possible even though the effects of the existence of oxygen was clearly seen. Did not oxygen exist 200 years ago? 

The point is this........when a man claims that it was the Spirit of God that provided the power to overcome addictions and another man claims that it is will power alone that is necessary to change human behavior.....well, this is natural. One man has experienced the existence of something where another man has not. The fact that this spiritual power is undetectable to some does not indicate that it doesn't exist at all. Nor does it indicate that this power is not effective and useful to those who believe it. 

When a compound bow manufacturer posts a bible passage on the carton of a new bow he is speaking about something that he knows as a reality while knowing full well that not all are aware of this reality. As followers of Christ we are compelled to speak truth to all.....not just the choir.

Doug


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

dougedwards said:


> The fact that this spiritual power is undetectable to some does not indicate that it doesn't exist at all. Nor does it indicate that this power is not effective and useful to those who believe it.


Keep 'er on topic boys! If you want a philosophy argument we have different AT forums for debating the existence of god 

I will say Doug that this is something that has troubled me a lot. People like me have tried, and tried hard to "find jesus." Bible studies, church, prayer and meditation for years (and this is as an adult, not forced as a child). I wanted to find jesus. God how i tried!!! But he never chose to show himself to me. Either he doesn't exist or he chose not to have me be part of his world. Either way, I don't need a bible verse on my box!!!

Thanks to everyone (both sides of the argument) for being pretty respectable for the most part. I'm glad this thread could exist on a main forum on AT, be related to archery, be civil, and not get shut down!


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

freebird134 said:


> Keep 'er on topic boys! If you want a philosophy argument we have different AT forums for debating the existence of god


Would sure like to know what is not philosophical here on Archery Talk. We debate the effects of the existence of cam lean almost every day.....lol


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

dougedwards said:


> Would sure like to know what is not philosophical here on Archery Talk. We debate the effects of the existence of cam lean almost every day.....lol


FUnny  

FYI I think you got this in while I was editing mine also. Sorry about that.


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## straightedge123 (Nov 2, 2007)

freebird134 said:


> So do the bible verses and other propaganda influence whether or not you buy a product. I don't personally feel like we have a choice. All the good bow companies seem to be waving a cross. Anyone know about Hoyt? I'm actually not a huge Hoyt fan, but I've also never seen Jesus stuff with Hoyt
> 
> I may be wrong; my memory can be fuzzy; but I thought I had worked on a Hoyt kids bow recently where the box was brought in containing the bow that had a Bible verse on the box. I remember being surprised at the time.


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## MissionTom (Dec 15, 2012)

Wow, what a topic, I think the original question is whether or not they use a bible verse as a marketing tool, well marketing tools are usually meant to be seen by the masses, and lets face it, not all who are into archery and bow hunting even see the box to begin with, I know when you go to a proshop you usually get your bow picked out, set up, and alot of times you put it in the case and never even see the box, I know its different on AT because there are a lot of guys who are longtime archers and have the knowledge to do all their own set ups, and they do go in get a new bow in the box and take it home and do their thing, so not all even get to see what your even talking about,(I feel a little left out), so it does stand to reason they are just stating something they strongly believe in, and letting all the rest of the christian archers and hunters know they are not alone, and spreading the good news as scripture teaches us to do, I have to say I really enjoy seeing people with such passion for the things in their hearts, and when you have passion in your heart, you have found jesus, that is a gift given to us and is a blessing...


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## Trinity Archery (Nov 8, 2005)

Trinity Archery is a ministry first, archery company second. We are called in Matthew 28:19-20 to share the
gospel and we choose to use archery as our platform.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Trinity Archery said:


> Trinity Archery is a ministry first, archery company second. We are called in Matthew 28:19-20 to share the
> gospel and we choose to use archery as our platform.


I really couldn't care less about the ministry, but your expandable stabilizer is one of my all time favorites! I love that thing! I hope you made some $ off Octane's new balance x stab!


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## Trinity Archery (Nov 8, 2005)

freebird134 said:


> I really couldn't care less about the ministry, but your expandable stabilizer is one of my all time favorites! I love that thing! I hope you made some $ off Octane's new balance x stab!


Glad you like it. As far as the $ goes, probably not what you would think.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Trinity Archery said:


> Glad you like it. As far as the $ goes, probably not what you would think.


That's too bad, because it seems pretty clearly your design! I haven't used the Octane myself, but my buddy had one and said mine (Yours!) was far better built than the Octane.

For the sake of this thread I will have to admit however I would not buy a stabilizer with John 3:16 displayed so prominently as on the t3. I'm not at all suggesting you change your product, and I'm sure there are plenty of archerys that love that 3:16 on there. Just saying (since this is the topic of the thread) I wouldn't buy it. I really hope that doesn't sound like an insult--just trying to be honest.


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## Trinity Archery (Nov 8, 2005)

freebird134 said:


> That's too bad, because it seems pretty clearly your design! I haven't used the Octane myself, but my buddy had one and said mine (Yours!) was far better built than the Octane.
> 
> For the sake of this thread I will have to admit however I would not buy a stabilizer with John 3:16 displayed so prominently as on the t3. I'm not at all suggesting you change your product, and I'm sure there are plenty of archerys that love that 3:16 on there. Just saying (since this is the topic of the thread) I wouldn't buy it. I really hope that doesn't sound like an insult--just trying to be honest.


We will be able to sell the expandable stabilizer again when the license expires.

Not insulted at all with your thoughts on the verse on the t3, I appreciate your input. It really is about the ministry first. There will be many that wont buy our products because of that fact, but there will be many conversations started because John 14:6 is engraved on it. You really wouldnt like our string silencers!! ;0)


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Trinity Archery said:


> We will be able to sell the expandable stabilizer again when the license expires.....You really wouldnt like our string silencers!! ;0)


I'm really glad you jumped on this thread! I really wish you made the expandable--it's great for our bivy hunts where we want a good stab, but need something that fits on our backs well. And if you put a bible verse on it....well, I'd probably still get one and cover it with camo tape  When does that license expire?


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

freebird134 said:


> Keep 'er on topic boys! If you want a philosophy argument we have different AT forums for debating the existence of god
> 
> I will say Doug that this is something that has troubled me a lot. People like me have tried, and tried hard to "find jesus." Bible studies, church, prayer and meditation for years (and this is as an adult, not forced as a child). I wanted to find jesus. God how i tried!!! But he never chose to show himself to me. Either he doesn't exist or he chose not to have me be part of his world. Either way, I don't need a bible verse on my box!!!
> 
> Thanks to everyone (both sides of the argument) for being pretty respectable for the most part. I'm glad this thread could exist on a main forum on AT, be related to archery, be civil, and not get shut down!


You don't find Jesus, it's the other way around.


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## Trinity Archery (Nov 8, 2005)

freebird134 said:


> I'm really glad you jumped on this thread! I really wish you made the expandable--it's great for our bivy hunts where we want a good stab, but need something that fits on our backs well. And if you put a bible verse on it....well, I'd probably still get one and cover it with camo tape  When does that license expire?


I will check on license expiration and let you know, I really dont remember. You will probably need to get your camo tape ready.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Reco111 said:


> You don't find Jesus, it's the other way around.


Well, I'm waiting.... if he finds me, I'll be all in!




Trinity Archery said:


> I will check on license expiration and let you know, I really dont remember. You will probably need to get your camo tape ready.


Cool. I appreciate it.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

If a company chooses to run their company on Christian principles, that is their right. If it bothers you that bad then shop somewhere else.


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## Trinity Archery (Nov 8, 2005)

freebird134 said:


> Well, I'm waiting.... if he finds me, I'll be all in!
> 
> Right on, that is what it says in John 6:44.


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## tony21 (Nov 18, 2009)

Tony219er said:


> Do NOT buy a Bowtech if you don't want scripture on your box and "In God We Trust" on your limbs with an American flag. Lucky for you their's a lot of different company's to buy from.


Its just bad business. Not that bowtech is hurting in sales, but how many people could be offended by a box that says "bowtech" compared to a box that says "bowtech" subscripted "our lord and savior, jesus christ". If I owned a business I'd want to offend as little as possible and religion is a profitless route to offend. Its not like religious people won't buy them if it doesn't have religious ties, but non religious sure won't buy it if it does


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## drewdog (Jun 20, 2011)

Personally, I am glad that BowTech puts a Bible verse on their boxes. I think it is important for people to be proud of what they believe in. It just so happens that they fall in line with what I believe. That is one of the main reasons I shoot for them. Plus I think they have the best bows on the market by far. Which doesn't hurt :thumbs_up

And apparently it's not too bad of business for them to do so since they are one of the top compund bow manufacturers and they have been putting Bible verses on their boxes for 12 years. If it bothers you so much that you are not willing to buy from them, then it's your loss. They have a great product with cutting edge technology.

If it's a great product, it doesn't matterat all about the companies views. It's just too bad that it keeps people from buying. Sad really. Just my 2 cents.


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## wolverine1 (Oct 20, 2009)

In a world where immoral acts are de-sensitizing even the strongest Christians, it's refreshing to see company's that have the guts to step out there and put anything referring to Christianity on their products. God knows us Christians are fastly becoming the minority, I can't believe any company would prosper by putting Christian propaganda on their products, without divine intervention of course. 

P.S. Hard to believe anyone argues against creationism, especially when the first two Laws of Thermodynamics, figured out by human scientists, proves the bible teachings!


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

wolverine1 said:


> P.S. Hard to believe anyone argues against creationism, especially when the first two Laws of Thermodynamics, figured out by human scientists, proves the bible teachings!



LOL. You are so wrong I feel sorry for you. This is exactly the kind of stuff that gives christians a bad name. It's hard for me to believe anyone believes in creationism, especially with all that crazy "data' and "evidence."


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

And the earth is only 6000 years old...


Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## wolverine1 (Oct 20, 2009)

Praise The Lord for Christians (businesses) who still have the GUTS to proclaim Jesus Christ. Rest assured there are still some of us who appreciate your stance and back you 100%!

Thanks for your concern and compassion freebird but I'm not sure why your telling me I'm wrong concerning the Law of Thermodynamics and that it gives Christians a bad name. I wasn't trying to start a debate with that statement, I was just stating a fact concerning laws based on evidence accumulated over years of scientific study. I assumed even non Christians at least believed in these first two laws. Mans Laws of Thermodynamics is simply in line with what the bible teaches and can't be refuted if we're educated on each. 

Hope you didn't take this as a personal attack or an invitation for a debate, didn't intend to hijack your thread. I'd be more than willing to debate this in the proper forum or through PM's if you'd like unless your ok with your thread taking this direction.

Take care


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## wolverine1 (Oct 20, 2009)

Garceau said:


> And the earth is only 6000 years old...
> 
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Or there about anyway.


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

freebird134 said:


> LOL. You are so wrong I feel sorry for you. This is exactly the kind of stuff that gives christians a bad name. It's hard for me to believe anyone believes in creationism, especially with all that crazy "data' and "evidence."


You feel sorry for us?? When your body dies you will finally see what all the "hype" was about.


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## jjtrain44 (Mar 11, 2008)

freebird134 said:


> To each his own, and you can't fault him for doing right for what he believes. I don't know about Matthews, but for me a bible verse in big font on the front center of a Bowtech box is "over done." If Bowtech's didn't make such sweet bows, it could sway my choice to buy one. But it isn't going to (counting down days until I get my Insanity!)


so you support a company that stands by their faith, but they should be quiet about it? I have no idea where you stand on this you are all over the map.Personally i think if a company is open about their stance and supports the creater of all things on this earth i will stand with them, glad i found out about some of these mentioned companies for future purchases.


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## DVOAK (Feb 24, 2010)

After reading every post in this thread I have to ask if any of you are converts to Christianity? I can say that the only reason I consider myself Christian is because I was born in this country to Christian parents. If I was born in another country, into another religion, I would be of that faith today. I have always had a problem with the certainty expressed by those that claim "their" religion is the one and only "right" way. How would you know if you've never been exposed to anything else?


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## wolverine1 (Oct 20, 2009)

jjtrain44 said:


> so you support a company that stands by their faith, but they should be quiet about it? I have no idea where you stand on this you are all over the map.personally i think if a company is open about their stance and supports the creater of all things on this earth i will stand with them, glad i found out about some of these mentioned companies for future purchases.


absolutely, i was thinking the same thing!


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## jjtrain44 (Mar 11, 2008)

i will leave you with this.....

Matthew 10:32-33 ESV .. So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

DVOAK said:


> After reading every post in this thread I have to ask if any of you are converts to Christianity? I can say that the only reason I consider myself Christian is because I was born in this country to Christian parents. If I was born in another country, into another religion, I would be of that faith today. I have always had a problem with the certainty expressed by those that claim "their" religion is the one and only "right" way. How would you know if you've never been exposed to anything else?


The moment that Christianity becomes a religion it is dead. One of the reasons that I never joined the masons.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

tim15328 said:


> this is a great thread...and yes 100%of mission bows profits go to missionaries. it really helps me respect a company knowing there of christian background.


That is one of the reasons I shoot Mathews ,there not ashamed of the gospel,and put there money where there heart is,


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

jjtrain44 said:


> i will leave you with this.....
> 
> Matthew 10:32-33 ESV .. So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.


That's a perfect verse,to this thread.amen


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## War_Material (Jul 17, 2012)

I am proud to be a catholic and seeing versus on any product always makes me feel good that the owner of the company is a christian and supports his/her beliefs as much as i do. Nobody is perfect but as long as you have values and fight for what you believe in, you have my respect. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

DVOAK said:


> After reading every post in this thread I have to ask if any of you are converts to Christianity? I can say that the only reason I consider myself Christian is because I was born in this country to Christian parents. If I was born in another country, into another religion, I would be of that faith today. I have always had a problem with the certainty expressed by those that claim "their" religion is the one and only "right" way. How would you know if you've never been exposed to anything else?


I was born to non believing parents and professed to be an atheist for the majority of my life.

Doug


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Buster of Xs said:


> I never thought that companies could be Christian, even if there are adherants that work for said company.  It's a belief system and companies don't have beliefs.
> 
> So that leaves us with a sales angle. They found the majority of archery equipment buyers were in the US and the bought mostly hunting bows. They also realized that the vast majority of suburban and rural bowhunters were also Christians. So they padded their sales by printing a couple verses.
> 
> That's what makes the most sense anyway.


Mathews gives100 percent of the mission line to missions,that is to spread Christ love and. Redeemed plan.not to pad there pockets. Mathews rocks,how many companies promote your views .


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## huntin4Christ (Sep 3, 2009)

JimmyP said:


> Mathews gives100 percent of the mission line to missions,that is to spread Christ love and. Redeemed plan.not to pad there pockets. Mathews rocks,how many companies promote your views .


Matt does the same thing with his McPherson guitars.....no profit. All goes to missions. 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Reco111 said:


> You feel sorry for us?? When your body dies you will finally see what all the "hype" was about.


I don't know about you. If you believe that god created life entirely in 7 days 6000 years ago, then yes, I feel sorry for you. 




jjtrain44 said:


> so you support a company that stands by their faith, but they should be quiet about it? I have no idea where you stand on this you are all over the map.Personally i think if a company is open about their stance and supports the creater of all things on this earth i will stand with them, glad i found out about some of these mentioned companies for future purchases.


Sorry I didn't realize I was all over the map! I guess I'm responding to different people's posts, and it may not seem consistent. I believe everyone has the right to do as they please, including making products with bible quotes. For example, if Trinity Archery wants to put 3:16 on it, they have that right and I support it. I also have the right not to buy it. In this case, they make a good product and I will probably buy it because I have no alternative--theirs is the best. But I still don't like that it is in scripted with a philosophy I disagree with. But I overlook our differences in beliefs and buy it--something that many of the christians on this thread said they would not do--is that a christian philosophy to avoid and be biased against those of other beliefs? 

I find it interesting how so many people think it is a good trait to unabashedly hold to your faith at any and all consequences. But I have a feeling that such support for clinging to ones faith only applies to fellow christians--I don't want to put words in people's mouths, but I bet if a muslim, hindu, or pagan was to do stand by their beliefs then the amount of support for "standing by their faith would be much less."

If a non-christian company was as committed to their faith as bowtech, mathews, mission, Trinity, or others, would you support them the same way you support these christian companies? It seems in this day and age that money drives freedom, and because christian archers would not buy products from an openly non-christian company religious freedom is very much gone.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

huntin4Christ said:


> Matt does the same thing with his McPherson guitars.....no profit. All goes to missions.


yeah, but who would want to play a McPherson when you can buy a Taylor or Gibby for the same price?  (just teasing)


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

Lux et Veritas........that is very interesting.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

dougedwards said:


> Lux et Veritas........that is very interesting.


haha.. nice catch. Nothing there but proud alma mater tradition. But truth is important. I've dedicated my life to seeking truth. The problem with truth, of course, is that different people have different ideas of what truth is.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

huntin4Christ said:


> Matt does the same thing with his McPherson guitars.....no profit. All goes to missions.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


God does promise to bless those who put him first.his companies sure look blessed to me.


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

freebird134 said:


> I don't know about you. If you believe that god created life entirely in 7 days 6000 years ago, then yes, I feel sorry for you.


I am not skilled to understand what the Lord understands. God has a much different perspective on time than what humans do. I believe in and I will trust in Gods word only.


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## cudcadet (Sep 17, 2010)

amen


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## tony21 (Nov 18, 2009)

drewdog said:


> Personally, I am glad that BowTech puts a Bible verse on their boxes. I think it is important for people to be proud of what they believe in. It just so happens that they fall in line with what I believe. That is one of the main reasons I shoot for them. Plus I think they have the best bows on the market by far. Which doesn't hurt :thumbs_up
> 
> And apparently it's not too bad of business for them to do so since they are one of the top compund bow manufacturers and they have been putting Bible verses on their boxes for 12 years. If it bothers you so much that you are not willing to buy from them, then it's your loss. They have a great product with cutting edge technology.
> 
> If it's a great product, it doesn't matterat all about the companies views. It's just too bad that it keeps people from buying. Sad really. Just my 2 cents.


Lucky for me there's about a dozen other companies making products just as good. I guess the part musta flew over where I said it must not have hurt their sales much. I don't see it as sad that it keeps it from buying their product. If I were to start a bow company tommorow and have "devine budhist morals'" or "salvation through allah" on the limbs would you buy it? Most likely anyone of faith in jesus and god would not because its not what they believe and they'd find it offensive... So why is it sad that someone that doesn't share bowtechs beliefs wouldn't buy their bows?


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

Reco111 said:


> You feel sorry for us?? When your body dies you will finally see what all the "hype" was about.


When my body dies, I won't see anything.
Cause I'll be dead.


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## Z7XtremeHunter (Mar 3, 2013)

Reco111 said:


> The moment that Christianity becomes a religion it is dead. One of the reasons that I never joined the masons.


Christianity is a religion.


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## mikelleen (Feb 20, 2013)

freebird134 said:


> LOL. You are so wrong I feel sorry for you. This is exactly the kind of stuff that gives christians a bad name. It's hard for me to believe anyone believes in creationism, especially with all that crazy "data' and "evidence."


LOL myself! Darwinism, which has become a religion allto itself, is hysterical to me. The converts to the theory of evolution are often more devout to that theory than any creationist. It is really funny to me that evolutionists take intelligent design as such a threat to their theory of random chance.

You seem like someone who is relative open to discussion, if so ftake a look at the movie Ben Stein did called "No Intelligence Allowed", you can find it on Netflix. The most hillarious part to me is when the die hard evolutionist in the movie states that life was likely started by "crystals".

Life on this earth is to varied, complex, and wonderful to be explained away by a series of accidental mutations.

Also the idea that biblical history states that the earth is only 6000 years old is an urban myth continously repeated by anti-religious zealots or the misinformed. I am not as good a Biblical scholar as I should be but the Bible indicates several periods of the history of this earth including the current earth age which is the 6000 plus year period described after Adams fall.

Anyway I am not going to convince you of anything, nor you me. However you might give "No Intelligence Allowed" a try. It's worth watching at least once. Especially if you are open to real scientific discovery without bias. The movie asks some interesting and relevent questions about what has become a religion of evolutionism.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Z7XtremeHunter said:


> Christianity is a religion.


No, Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Christians understand this.


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## mikelleen (Feb 20, 2013)

jimb said:


> No, Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Christians understand this.


Amen brother.


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## Z7XtremeHunter (Mar 3, 2013)

jimb said:


> No, Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Christians understand this.


I am a Christian. We believe we will go to heaven when we die. Go look up the definition of "religion". The only reason Christians don't like to call Christianity a religion is because it makes it easier to rope people into going to church.


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## shoeminator (Jan 27, 2007)

Not archery, but did you see the statement made by Starbucks to their stockholders? Hunting finds its roots in the Bible.


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## shoeminator (Jan 27, 2007)

It IS a relationship. Personal kind of belief not corporate.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

shoeminator said:


> Not archery, but did you see the statement made by Starbucks to their stockholders? Hunting finds its roots in the Bible.


Hunting been around long before the Bible 

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Garceau said:


> Hunting been around long before the Bible
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


That's we're all the debate lies,to a bible believing Christian hunting started in genesis after the fall of man,when GOD,said that ALL animals are now food for you. Rack em and stack em


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

At the start of man.....even by bibles definition. There was no written word. Hence no bible at that time.

The bible came about how many thousand of years later?

That with throwing science out the window

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Foilestraitmeat (Mar 1, 2009)

peace said:


> Just purchased two dozen Muddy Bloodsport's Bloodline arrows because they are vocal about their Christian heritage and faith. I applaud any and all propagation of The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
> "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek.
> For in it God’s righteousness is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written: The righteous will live by faith." Romans 1:16-17 (HCSB)
> 
> ...



x2

The christian walk was never meant to be a easy way of life, and i'm sure these companies that use christian views on their products already knew they would be scrutinized over it. Jesus tells us this in the word that there will be trials and tribulations for walking out the word of God in our lives, and He also said "remember they hated Me first". I applaud and will always try to use a christian company that truly tries to proclaim the christian faith.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

mikelleen said:


> LOL myself! Darwinism, which has become a religion allto itself, is hysterical to me. The converts to the theory of evolution are often more devout to that theory than any creationist. It is really funny to me that evolutionists take intelligent design as such a threat to their theory of random chance.
> 
> You seem like someone who is relative open to discussion, if so ftake a look at the movie Ben Stein did called "No Intelligence Allowed", you can find it on Netflix. The most hillarious part to me is when the die hard evolutionist in the movie states that life was likely started by "crystals".
> 
> ...



Why don't I want christian messages/symbols on my stuff? Because I don't want to support or be affiliated with people that think stuff like this!

I've seen Ben Stein's movie. I actually went to see it the week it opened in the theater with 3 of my devout Christian friends (including 1 with a PhD in Theology from Oxford who now teaches at a christian college). None of us liked the movie and they even thought it was a biased attack on biologists. See, movies are for entertainment, as is TV, Radio and newspapers. They exist to sell themselves and advertising.

The problem with evolution is that it is complex, whereas religion is easy. You pretty much need a college education to understand evolution and even then it takes some complex thinking skills and understanding of biology to fully appreciate it. Christianity, is the exact opposite: it takes little brainpower and all you need is belief and the ability to say "god did it." Whenever someone brings up the "it's a theory" argument, I immediately know that this person has little understanding of science. If you know nothing about evolution how can you be so against it? Oh, right....because a movie told you it was wrong. :mg:

And those are the people that make me want to scratch off any reference to Christianity from anything I own and think twice before buying products from Christian companies.


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## bartman (Jan 10, 2004)

freebird134 said:


> My wife's new Bowtech has a bible verse on the box. Personal views aside, I find it weird how many archery companies advertise with Jesus. I mean, you don't see this in other industries. My coke or pepsi bottle doesn't advertise a faith, nor do much else. I don't know how other people feel about it, but to me it comes off as fake and just a way of saying "look at us, we are good ol' boys you can trust."
> 
> As owner of Deer Crossing Archery LLC and Maverick Archery LLC I am a Baptist Minister and my Sales Manager is also a Christian and his dad is a Pastor. My Marketing Manager is youth Pastor and my Internet Sales Manager is a Christian too.
> Don't always fall into their trap of the Christian Card because I have been in this industry for many moons and I assure you there are many that their fruit doesn't show it:-(


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

bartman said:


> As owner of Deer Crossing Archery LLC and Maverick Archery LLC I am a Baptist Minister and my Sales Manager is also a Christian and his dad is a Pastor. My Marketing Manager is youth Pastor and my Internet Sales Manager is a Christian too.
> Don't always fall into their trap of the Christian Card because I have been in this industry for many moons and I assure you there are many that their fruit doesn't show it:-(


Thanks for posting Bart. Are you saying just because they put a christian symbol on a product doesn't mean they actually have those values? If so, I think you are dead right.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

Ok, I see we are getting into the philysophical here. That is ok. Just might be the wrong forum for it.

I contend that the very fact that humans have a conscience and operate under an innate moral code is evidence that God exists but that would be a totally different discussion which I would welcome. However, pertaining to *non*-creationist/intelligent design beliefs the moral compass becomes rather confusing.

*IF*, we as human organisms are nothing more than grown up germs.....then what difference would it make if we sit the black germs on the back of the bus only and allow the white germs to sit in the front? What difference would it make if we exterminate 5,000,000 Jewish germs because we know there are plenty of other human organisms to go around? We are all nothing more than rather complex organisms whose only distinguishing trait is that we are further down the road of the evolutionary process (maybe) according to the Darwinist theory. With this approach in mind I do begin to understand how someone could say _"abort the humans"_ and at the same time _"save the whales"_. 

*13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.32 If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die! 1 Corinthians 15*

So......if that is what we actually are......complex organisms developed by random chance through millions of years of random chance then why not _grab for all the gusto that you can get because you only go around once in life_ as the commercial recommends? 

Not saying that everyone should make themselves believe in something that they just don't believe in. But the facts are the facts. Hitler was a Darwinist and believed that mankind would eventually be exterminated from the earth because humans take care of their weak unlike the rest of the animal world. He proceeded to do the _right_ thing which was to eliminate the weak and the disfunctional and the mentally and physically disabled from the gene pool and eventually exterminated them. Why not? They are just grown up germs right?

There is something within each human that recognizes that we have special characteristics that transcend that of the rest of the animal world. Is that awareness illogical? Yes maybe it is but it is there just the same. 

We who love God are aware of Him and His creation. We are aware that there is a definite plan being worked out here on earth like no other place in the universe. For those who are only aware of what they can reason with their fives senses......well.....eat drink and be merry.

Doug


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

bartman said:


> freebird134 said:
> 
> 
> > My wife's new Bowtech has a bible verse on the box. Personal views aside, I find it weird how many archery companies advertise with Jesus. I mean, you don't see this in other industries. My coke or pepsi bottle doesn't advertise a faith, nor do much else. I don't know how other people feel about it, but to me it comes off as fake and just a way of saying "look at us, we are good ol' boys you can trust."
> ...


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

dougedwards said:


> we as human organisms are nothing more than grown up germs.....then what difference would it make if we sit the black germs on the back of the bus only and allow the white germs to sit in the front? What difference would it make if we exterminate 5,000,000 Jewish germs because we know there are plenty of other human organisms to go around? We are all nothing more than rather complex organisms whose only distinguishing trait is that we are further down the road of the evolutionary process (maybe) according to the Darwinist theory. With this approach in mind I do begin to understand how someone could say _"abort the humans"_ and at the same time _"save the whales"_...


I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush, but I've never met an atheist that would discriminate against "germs of other color" yet virtually every bigot I know is Christian. I've never known an atheist that wants to deny someone rights or privledges based on a person's color, nationality, sexual orientation, gender or anything, yet I see a lot of Christians do just that. *I KNOW that every Christian isn't a bigot,* and I am not even implying that the majority of them are. But, if the Christian God does exist it's funny that we heathen athiests follow his son's words closer than a lot of christians. Again, look at how many people said they would not buy a product from an openly non-christian (atheist or other religion) company; I have a hard time believing that Jesus would advocate this, especially for a guy that hung around *****s and heathens. Seems like the all too common, good ol' Christian hypocrisy that our country is full of (eg, freedom of religion as long as it is OUR religion). 

I was PMing with a pastor this morning that showed me 1 Peter 3:15. Put that on the side of a stabilizer and I might actually display it proudly, and use it to remind them to be courteous, respectful and humble when defending their beliefs (ie, don't be a jerk).




dougedwards said:


> .....For those who are only aware of what they can reason with their fives senses......well.....eat drink and be merry.


:darkbeer:


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## drewdog (Jun 20, 2011)

tony21 said:


> Lucky for me there's about a dozen other companies making products just as good. I guess the part musta flew over where I said it must not have hurt their sales much. I don't see it as sad that it keeps it from buying their product. If I were to start a bow company tommorow and have "devine budhist morals'" or "salvation through allah" on the limbs would you buy it? Most likely anyone of faith in jesus and god would not because its not what they believe and they'd find it offensive... So why is it sad that someone that doesn't share bowtechs beliefs wouldn't buy their bows?


If a company does nothing immoral and still keeps growing the company, then how does it make it bad business?

I don't care if a company puts "devine budhist morals'" or "salvation through allah" on the limbs of their products. If they have a quality product that surpasses others in the market, I would be happy to buy and use it. It's just an added bonus for me that BowTech happens to share in some of my beliefs.

I think it's sad that they don't buy their products because they are obviously top of the line. They would be missing out on some of the best quality products on the market. This goes for any company with a great product that stands behind their beliefs. If someone is willing to refuse to try an industry leading product simply because they don't share the same belief system as the company's owners then I find that incredibly disappointing and sad.

Just because you buy a product that has a bible verse on it doesn't make you support their beliefs. It means that you support their product. It is their right to put it on the boxes just like it is your right to buy or choose another product. All US currency has "In God we trust." If you cash a check and accept the money from the teller does that make you someone who believes in God? Or do you just write checks and use your debit card everywhere you go because you don't approve of the print on US currency?

As long as a company doesn't use their profits for something demoralizing or vindictive, then I see no reason whatsoever not to support/buy their products.

And I am guessing your Diamond Black Ice that you shoot did not come with the box since it is made by BowTech and also had scripture on it.


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## STORMINMOOSE (Dec 20, 2009)

freebird134 said:


> Why don't I want christian messages/symbols on my stuff? Because I don't want to support or be affiliated with people that think stuff like this!
> 
> I've seen Ben Stein's movie. I actually went to see it the week it opened in the theater with 3 of my devout Christian friends (including 1 with a PhD in Theology from Oxford who now teaches at a christian college). None of us liked the movie and they even thought it was a biased attack on biologists. See, movies are for entertainment, as is TV, Radio and newspapers. They exist to sell themselves and advertising.
> 
> ...


You know what if you don't like it don't buy it quit whining.


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## BowhunterCliffy (Feb 19, 2007)

Shouldn't the mods move this to the correct forum, PRM forum?
There is a place over there for _endless and useless_ debates like this one.


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## mikelleen (Feb 20, 2013)

freebird134 said:


> Why don't I want christian messages/symbols on my stuff? Because I don't want to support or be affiliated with people that think stuff like this!.


Thank you! The truth comes out. 
So DON'T buy from those companies, what do I or anyone else care about how you make your purchasing decisions? You're welcome to make those decisions on your own and not bother the rest of us with your prejudices.

But that's not really enough for you is it? You have to start what you knew would be an inflamitory thread just because of some form of malovence you have towards religious persons. You KNOW your right and you have to prove it to everyone. Not only that you don't want companies who represent a view that you don't like, to be able to represent those views.

Seriously, why does this bother you so much that you have to create a malovent inflamatory thread about something that you could simply avoid by choosing another product?

Why are you deliberately insulting of others that don't hold your viewpoint?

Why are you so arrogant to think that the THEORY of evolution is a proven fact? 
Any real scientific process involves challenging theories until they are proven, and there are many holes in the THEROY of evolution which have been well documented by many scientists not just the ones in Ben Steins movie. I'm an engineer and have been trained in both broad scientific principles as well as my specialties. I have yet to see a proof written that fully validates the THEORY of evolution.

Your statement above shows that you are more interested in pontificating on how wrong creationists are then getting to the point of the "No Intelligence Allowed" movie. The movie is not about whether or not evolutionism or creationism is true, it's about the efforts to close down any debate on the subject by the mainstream left. That attitude is not science, but arrogant bigotry.



freebird134 said:


> The problem with evolution is that it is complex, whereas religion is easy. You pretty much need a college education to understand evolution and even then it takes some complex thinking skills and understanding of biology to fully appreciate it. Christianity, is the exact opposite: it takes little brainpower and all you need is belief and the ability to say "god did it." Whenever someone brings up the "it's a theory" argument, I immediately know that this person has little understanding of science. If you know nothing about evolution how can you be so against it? Oh, right....because a movie told you it was wrong.


Thank you again for finally expressing your real opinion. The idea you expressed above is a prime example of bigotry based only on opinion and fully unsupported by fact. This is highly typical of the arrogant left. You have echo'd most of the stereotypes of many religion hating individuals. 

So religious persons have "little brainpower" and can't grasp the theories of evolution? I suggest you have little tolerance nor the intelligence to have honest debate without succombing to name calling as your last defense. Your PhD friend who teaches at Oxford also has "little brainpower"? I assume you tolerate him and his company for some reason?

Again, I am not going to convince you of anything, nor you me, but seriously maybe you could think of why it was necessary for you to start what you had to know would be a controversial thread just to b!tch about your intolerance for companies that proclaim their religion. Get over it!


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## mikelleen (Feb 20, 2013)

BowhunterCliffy said:


> Shouldn't the mods move this to the correct forum, PRM forum?
> There is a place over there for _endless and useless_ debates like this one.


I agree, and this is the last post on this thread from me. Interesting but utterly useless.


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## z7MagnumFreak (Aug 6, 2012)

freebird134 said:


> You could say similar things about some christian groups
> 
> View attachment 1631013


A true AMEN to that! hahaha! Apparently every white "christian" man around here forgot about the crusades.


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## z7MagnumFreak (Aug 6, 2012)

mikelleen said:


> Thank you! The truth comes out.
> So DON'T buy from those companies, what do I or anyone else care about how you make your purchasing decisions? You're welcome to make those decisions on your own and not bother the rest of us with your prejudices.
> 
> But that's not really enough for you is it? You have to start what you knew would be an inflamitory thread just because of some form of malovence you have towards religious persons. You KNOW your right and you have to prove it to everyone. Not only that you don't want companies who represent a view that you don't like, to be able to represent those views.
> ...




I think you might have more issues at hand dude...Science is an every growing light in the darkness of human understanding that seeks to eliminate the pitiful compilation of disgraceful stories and false knowing that have pervaded human society for thousands of years. When these "fact" based stories of "morality" are finally relegated to the fiction section of our libraries I will be happy. Evolution is entirely real and It's time people stop clinging to their beliefs out of fear of change and move onwards to greater achievements as a human race.


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## wolverine1 (Oct 20, 2009)

Psalms 14:1, The fool hath said in his heart there is no God.......... If you get fired up over that statement please direct your anger in the proper direction, GOD! He's the one who said it, I'm just bringing it up to re-confirm that it's a HEART decision not a mind decision to not believe in God. We can't possibly look around you and with our finite mind reason there is no God! The heavens have declared his handy work!

Since this thread has taken on a life of it's own, why is everyone avoiding the Law of Thermodynamics statements. Come on atheists please explain away your take on this!!!!

Fellow Christians, kudos, great job for speaking up and not being ashamed of what you believe in!


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## wolverine1 (Oct 20, 2009)

freebird134 said:


> *"The problem with evolution is that it is complex, whereas religion is easy."*
> 
> *EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* I have to give you credit, it takes more faith for a non-Christian to believe what they believe in than it does for a Christian to believe what they believe in!
> 
> One of the main problems with Christianity is it *is* easy, all you have to do is ask, it's a free gift. If you had to pay for it, there would probably be more of us!


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## peter herzog (Feb 19, 2013)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


Great answer. Yes Mathews, Quad, and Bowtech were started and are now owned by solid Christians.


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## jjtrain44 (Mar 11, 2008)

"we heathen atheists" words from the original poster, and that clears it all up for me all i needed to know about him and why this thread ever started in the first place.The OP has stated several times throughout this thread that christians on here have openly said we would not buy from a company that did not agree with our views, but i have yet to find one post in this thread saying that.I sincerely hope the OP talks to the right person someone far more knowledgable about the bible than myself to get himself turned in the right direction, because if you keep denying the lord there will come a judgement day for us all and at that point you/we all will have to stand before GOD and answer.THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF SUNBLOCK STRONG ENOUGH TO HELP YOU WHERE YOU WILL GO IF YOU DO NOT PROCLAIM JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR.....I WILL PRAY FOR YOU EVEN IF WE DO NOT SEE EYE TO EYE


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

I've always wondered what an atheist is thinking when he is laying on the road bleeding out and slowly dying after a serious car accident. Do they continue to hold on to their resolve that there is nothing or do they simply ask "God help me"


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## buckmaster8501 (Aug 7, 2010)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


Well said!!!!


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## jetech (Oct 14, 2010)

> [The problem with evolution is that it is complex, whereas religion is easy. You pretty much need a college education to understand evolution and even then it takes some complex thinking skills and understanding of biology to fully appreciate it./QUOTE]
> 
> Its complex and most Biologists don't understand it primarily because none of it fits and most of it is made up.
> 
> ...


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

I'll say it ... I pass over companies and products when I don't agree with their views. I vote with my dollars every time I get the chance. "No Firearms Allowed" signs means I take my business elsewhere. You actively thwart the 2nd amendment? Don't expect me to buy from you.

I actively search out Christian companies and Christian-produced products and services. There is a much better chance that they agree with my views than non-Christian companies, and I like to support those that I agree with. Chik-Fil-A gets my business every chance I get. I'm loving my Bowtech bow. Is there something wrong with that?

I will freely admit that if a company wants to put Koran verses on their products, I am 99.9% certain that company would never receive another dollar from me.

The free market is all about choice. I choose where to spend my money. Companies choose how to present their public image. If something is important to you, then vote with your dollars. I'm sure there are atheist archery equipment companies out there ... not sure how well evolution works though, as I much prefer "intelligent design" 

BTW, more people have been killed by government (communism, marxism, fascism) than by religion.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

freebird134 said:


> I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush, but I've never met an atheist that would discriminate against "germs of other color" yet virtually every bigot I know is Christian. I've never known an atheist that wants to deny someone rights or privledges based on a person's color, nationality, sexual orientation, gender or anything, yet I see a lot of Christians do just that. *I KNOW that every Christian isn't a bigot,* and I am not even implying that the majority of them are. But, if the Christian God does exist it's funny that we heathen athiests follow his son's words closer than a lot of christians. Again, look at how many people said they would not buy a product from an openly non-christian (atheist or other religion) company; I have a hard time believing that Jesus would advocate this, especially for a guy that hung around *****s and heathens. Seems like the all too common, good ol' Christian hypocrisy that our country is full of (eg, freedom of religion as long as it is OUR religion).
> 
> I was PMing with a pastor this morning that showed me 1 Peter 3:15. Put that on the side of a stabilizer and I might actually display it proudly, and use it to remind them to be courteous, respectful and humble when defending their beliefs (ie, don't be a jerk).
> 
> ...


Wow.....you mean after all that was written there you still missed the point??

The context is concerning an awareness of a moral code that appears to be innate in human kind. An awareness that there is more to men and women than what we can conclude from evolutionary theory. That certain things are just morally right or morally wrong when it comes to the treatment of human kind and that it is this awareness that sets us apart from all other living organisms on earth. I hope that you didn't miss that point but maybe you did.

Whether some pastor that you know did this or that is not the issue. You may have atheistic friends who have high standards of morality. My question is this......where did they get them?? What is logical or rational about them?

Yes.....eat, drink, be merry and indulge your urges to the fullest because as you freely admit.....one day you will be dead and you will have no awareness at all. But I can tell you this. Someone loves you and will miss you if you have shown others love and respect. Love is eternal and does not dissipate with the fading of our bodies. That is only because we are much more than physical organisms. 

You seem to have a desire to form judgements about God based on the actions of some folks who call themselves Christians. Is that really rational? Think about it.


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## sixgunluv (Jul 1, 2003)

No one bothered to mention Concept Archery... i think that's the name if it's still in business. I believe they were making bows with 99% letoff. Never shot one...still hard to wrap my head around 99% letoff.


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## pitbullman (Oct 24, 2012)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.




Amen


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

Garceau said:


> How is the Government and the media attacking Christian faith?
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


You aren't serious are you ? Do you watch the news at all ? Have you watched the news in the last month the IRS i.e... the Government is before congress right now for their attack on non profit Christian organizations. Wake up and smell the coffee


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## azflyman (Mar 19, 2012)

Soul Stealer said:


> I find whoring out your religion and faith to be distasteful practice.


I don't doubt that for a second seeing your user name.


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## 45er (Jan 18, 2009)

freebird134 said:


> My wife's new Bowtech has a bible verse on the box. Personal views aside, I find it weird how many archery companies advertise with Jesus. I mean, you don't see this in other industries. My coke or pepsi bottle doesn't advertise a faith, nor do much else. I don't know how other people feel about it, but to me it comes off as fake and just a way of saying "look at us, we are good ol' boys you can trust."
> 
> With all these hunting companies advertising their Christianity so much, it made me wonder if there are any companies of different faiths. Anyone know? Are there any atheistic companies preaching that their stuff is the product of _survival of the fittest_? Maybe Jewish companies that make good products, as long as you don't use them on pigs?  I suppose Buddhists wouldn't get into hunting but they still might make target products?


BowTech courage to do this and openly support our troops is one of the many reasons for my signature.


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## perrys no peep (Nov 13, 2007)

optimal_max said:


> In today's political environment, it seems to me more courageous than ever to associate your products with your faith. With the government and the media painting Christians as the enemy, and atheist groups starting lawsuits everywhere to remove any historical connection between faith and our country's beginnings, it becomes a sensitive issue. And here we have a deliberate decision to make a proclamation of faith on a product that you are trying to sell in the mass market. They are not selling only to Christians, they are selling to everyone, so from my POV it takes a lot of courage to put a Bible verse on the box. You should also find an "In God we Trust" sticker on the limb.
> 
> It's a good question, and I hope this thread can stay on course without degrading into an argument.


So many good post here!!!
I will say Amen to this one again.


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## cconte (Feb 12, 2013)

Great thread here, and for the most part very respectful and in good taste.

I, for one, applaud all the manufacturers who have stepped out of the shadows and announced their faith in God. I am an Athens staff shooter and was turned on to the company after watching the owner's short video of how the company came to be. Since then, I've become extremely appreciative of the staff community and fellowship on our own forum site, and have become increasingly aware of other companies that openly share their faith with the consumers. Trinity has been mentioned a few times on this thread, and I am extremely impressed with them. Have you ever watched their video spots/commercials? They spend more time in each commercial ministering then they do advertising. I love it. I recently attended a St. Jude's charity shoot for the members of the oil industry in Houston. The event started with a prayer. That's awesome! I can't remember a business related golf scramble ever starting like that. As hunter's and outdoorsmen (outdoorswomen, too), we are, as already acknowledged, a population that is more conservative, so it's not unexpected to see the majority of posts here showing support for those entities that are bold with their faith, but it is, nonetheless, still refreshing.

I am a very accepting and loving person. I welcome everyone to my house and my table, as I know my God does. It is my responsibility to show my faith through my works, or rather, I believe my love for Christ is shown through my works - I don't have to make an effort to do this. I don't have to "sell" it, and neither do the manufacturers. I don't think they're using their Christianity to sell their products. I like to think they're using their products and companies to sell their God, which is the responsibilty of each and every Christian. Whether we are subtle or bold, soft spoken or vocal, in all we say and do, we are walking, talking billboards for Christ.


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## 45er (Jan 18, 2009)

Separation of Church and State is very important, and our founding fathers understood this. However, they also understood the importance of having leaders who had a strong faith and truly Christian ethic. 

_When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of *Nature's God *entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are *endowed by their Creator* with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness._........

_In God We Trust......._..

_One nation, under God............_

Again, kudos for those companies who put their beliefs out there for customers to see.


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## azflyman (Mar 19, 2012)

45er said:


> Separation of Church and State is very important, and our founding fathers understood this.


This is one of the most mis-understood ideologies/qoutes proliferated. If you research where this came from it was from a letter. Thomas Jefferson's letter to a concerned Baptist church it was stated that there should be a separation of church and state. The group of Baptist's voiced concern that the US government would have a government sponsored church like tha Anglican Church of England. 

This Wiki is 99% accurate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

We are a country based on Christianity and I believe we have been blessed because of that fact. I also believe that the blessing will be taken away and we will be punished for our falling away from those Christian foundational values.

Back on topic, I do support Christian businesses and will continue to do so. Yes, I will spend more to shop in a business and support a product that has a Christian foundation. I support what I believe.


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## NewMexicoHunter (Jan 16, 2013)

Interesting how most "Christians" will do all they can to support other Christians, but refrain from supporting any other religious company. As a Christian myself, I was taught to love my neighbor. That to me mean ANY neighbor, not just other Christians. My best friend is Muslim. I would not hesitate to help or support him or anybody he is associated with. This country is great because all of its people are free to love any god of their choosing. And for this reason, I believe putting Christian scripture on any product sold to the American public is distasteful.


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## NewMexicoHunter (Jan 16, 2013)

So if Athens supported Muslim beliefs, would you still support them?


cconte said:


> Great thread here, and for the most part very respectful and in good taste.
> 
> I, for one, applaud all the manufacturers who have stepped out of the shadows and announced their faith in God. I am an Athens staff shooter and was turned on to the company after watching the owner's short video of how the company came to be. Since then, I've become extremely appreciative of the staff community and fellowship on our own forum site, and have become increasingly aware of other companies that openly share their faith with the consumers. Trinity has been mentioned a few times on this thread, and I am extremely impressed with them. Have you ever watched their video spots/commercials? They spend more time in each commercial ministering then they do advertising. I love it. I recently attended a St. Jude's charity shoot for the members of the oil industry in Houston. The event started with a prayer. That's awesome! I can't remember a business related golf scramble ever starting like that. As hunter's and outdoorsmen (outdoorswomen, too), we are, as already acknowledged, a population that is more conservative, so it's not unexpected to see the majority of posts here showing support for those entities that are bold with their faith, but it is, nonetheless, still refreshing.
> 
> I am a very accepting and loving person. I welcome everyone to my house and my table, as I know my God does. It is my responsibility to show my faith through my works, or rather, I believe my love for Christ is shown through my works - I don't have to make an effort to do this. I don't have to "sell" it, and neither do the manufacturers. I don't think they're using their Christianity to sell their products. I like to think they're using their products and companies to sell their God, which is the responsibilty of each and every Christian. Whether we are subtle or bold, soft spoken or vocal, in all we say and do, we are walking, talking billboards for Christ.


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## cconte (Feb 12, 2013)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> So if Athens supported Muslim beliefs, would you still support them?


Well .. the bows are awesome, but I never would have been inclined to join them in the first place, if it wasn't for the fact that they are a company rooted in their faith. I would have just been an archer using whatever bow I happen to be shooting. I do business with Muslims on a daily basis, since I'm in international sales for a drilling manufacturer. I don't have a problem with Muslims, or the member of any other faith, across the board. Like most, I am concerned with the impact radicals - of any religion, have on society, but I don't turn away from individuals because of their beliefs. There is a huge difference between your average Muslim and a member of Al-Qaeda, just like the difference between your average Christian and the WBC. People are people and deserve respect and love - period. I can though, when choosing between 2 quality products, align myself with one whose beliefs are more in line with my own, just as any Muslim, Buddhist or Atheist can do.


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## sa-shooter (Apr 21, 2013)

I think you guys are over analyzing this...


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## NewMexicoHunter (Jan 16, 2013)

Great reply about respect and love for all! I just think its silly that a bow manufacturer uses it's religion to market their product. All it is.....propaganda. Last I checked there were no bow companies rooted in Muslim or Buddhist belief. I choose bows based on their quality and fit. 



cconte said:


> Well .. the bows are awesome, but I never would have been inclined to join them in the first place, if it wasn't for the fact that they are a company rooted in their faith. I would have just been an archer using whatever bow I happen to be shooting. I do business with Muslims on a daily basis, since I'm in international sales for a drilling manufacturer. I don't have a problem with Muslims, or the member of any other faith, across the board. Like most, I am concerned with the impact radicals - of any religion, have on society, but I don't turn away from individuals because of their beliefs. There is a huge difference between your average Muslim and a member of Al-Qaeda, just like the difference between your average Christian and the WBC. People are people and deserve respect and love - period. I can though, when choosing between 2 quality products, align myself with one whose beliefs are more in line with my own, just as any Muslim, Buddhist or Atheist can do.


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## ConflictDiamond (Jul 30, 2009)

Funny how a thread started about Christianity gets up to 9 pages rather rapidly. That Jewish carpenter from long ago sure does still have an effect on folks, doesn't he? I, for one...or more it seems...think it's about time that Christians speak up/stand up for their views. Do I think you slap people with your faith...no...but a subtle verse, a "fish" emblem and the sort not only doesn't bother me, but actually encourages me. And yes, religion and being a believer are not interchangeable.....just ask the Pharisees.


G


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## NewMexicoHunter (Jan 16, 2013)

You see! You put a Christian quote on a bow, and Christians are drawn to buy it. Isn't that what propaganda is intended for?


ConflictDiamond said:


> Funny how a thread started about Christianity gets up to 9 pages rather rapidly. That Jewish carpenter from long ago sure does still have an effect on folks, doesn't he? I, for one...or more it seems...think it's about time that Christians speak up/stand up for their views. Do I think you slap people with your faith...no...but a subtle verse, a "fish" emblem and the sort not only doesn't bother me, but actually encourages me. And yes, religion and being a believer are not interchangeable.....just ask the Pharisees.
> 
> 
> G


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## mainehunt (Sep 11, 2006)

freebird134 said:


> My wife's new Bowtech has a bible verse on the box. Personal views aside, I find it weird how many archery companies advertise with Jesus. I mean, you don't see this in other industries. My coke or pepsi bottle doesn't advertise a faith, nor do much else. I don't know how other people feel about it, but to me it comes off as fake and just a way of saying "look at us, we are good ol' boys you can trust."
> 
> With all these hunting companies advertising their Christianity so much, it made me wonder if there are any companies of different faiths. Anyone know? Are there any atheistic companies preaching that their stuff is the product of _survival of the fittest_? Maybe Jewish companies that make good products, as long as you don't use them on pigs?  I suppose Buddhists wouldn't get into hunting but they still might make target products?


I like it, Pepsi and Coke don't have the nerve to do it, even if they felt that way.

Kev
<><


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> Interesting how most "Christians" will do all they can to support other Christians, but refrain from supporting any other religious company. As a Christian myself, I was taught to love my neighbor. That to me mean ANY neighbor, not just other Christians. My best friend is Muslim. I would not hesitate to help or support him or anybody he is associated with. This country is great because all of its people are free to love any god of their choosing. And for this reason, I believe putting Christian scripture on any product sold to the American public is distasteful.


Purchasing a product is NOT an act of love. Purchasing a product is an act of support for said company. You support a company if you like their products well enough to lend that support. I choose to support companies that have similar values as myself.

If you want to talk acts of love, then you can research the time and treasure that Christian organizations (and companies) give to Muslim countries to care for the widows and the orphans of the world. While you're at it, do a little research about how much Muslim organizations support those same widows and orphans ... even those in their own respective countries.


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## NewMexicoHunter (Jan 16, 2013)

And in your opinion, Why are there so many widows and orphans in Muslim countries?



jcslinger said:


> Purchasing a product is NOT an act of love. Purchasing a product is an act of support for said company. You support a company if you like their products well enough to lend that support. I choose to support companies that have similar values as myself.
> 
> If you want to talk acts of love, then you can research the time and treasure that Christian organizations (and companies) give to Muslim countries to care for the widows and the orphans of the world. While you're at it, do a little research about how much Muslim organizations support those same widows and orphans ... even those in their own respective countries.


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## ConflictDiamond (Jul 30, 2009)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> You see! You put a Christian quote on a bow, and Christians are drawn to buy it. Isn't that what propaganda is intended for?


Propaganda....I wouldn't call it that. I own 2 Hoyts and a New Breed......neither puts anything on their bows, although I am sure NB is owned by a Christian gent. If I had the choice and option to support an organization that had similar beliefs to my own....you bet I would. Nice thing about this country...we still have that option. 

G


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## mainehunt (Sep 11, 2006)

ConquestLady said:


> To each there own, as an agnostic it turns me off that these faiths that claim to be charitable are still making and selling these products for profit. Good that we are in a free country and I can refrain from buying stuff with propaganda on it.


Yes, you're right, they are still selling for a profit. But they choose to give a portion of that profit to a good cause. They don't have to do that.

However, I'm glad they do and I am proud to purchase their product and in turn, help to donate to their cause.

Kev
<><


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

When I was browsing for a new bow last year I ran across a couple companies that had faith phrases on/in advertising...skipped over them. The only reason they do that is to simply draw in another market share because they know the those that believe won't question anything...just buy it becuse god says so. Yea, like it's "gods" company.


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## huckfinn38 (Nov 3, 2011)

tony21 said:


> My girlfriends heartbreaker came with religious jargon on the box. Luckly she could care less cause she's not religious in any way and she loves the bow. I'm not against religions but if my new bow came with scripture on the box I would send it back. It seems in a way insulting to people that don't buy into religions and have the religious stuff in bold print edition n their shipping box. I see it as them saying "this is what we believe and since we hold high status in the sport we'll push it on you. Whay if m buddest and you throw john 3:16 on m box sayin I believe this and I'm right your wrong?


Here is another way of looking at it. Maybe they are not pushing religion on you but love you enough to share the gospel with you???? It cracks me up with people state things like "push their religion on me". When I tell people about Christ it isnt so I can feed my ego or convert someone to believe what I believe but because I want people to experience what I experience and will experience when I die. Its out of love man!


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## huckfinn38 (Nov 3, 2011)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> And in your opinion, Why are there so many widows and orphans in Muslim countries?


Have you heard about what is going on in Syria? Muslims killing muslims.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

Romans 14:22....


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> And in your opinion, Why are there so many widows and orphans in Muslim countries?


Why don't you enlighten me?

I was simply stating that purchasing a product is not LOVE. You seem to think that loving you neighbor means you have to buy from a Muslim. I do not believe that to be the case. I know what love is. I spend more money loving my neighbor every month than I have spent building up my entire archery setup from scratch. Yet I am accused of not loving my neighbor because I will not purchase from a known Muslim company? I have spent time in Muslim countries. I have literally fed widows and orphans there.

So tell me why there are so many widows and orphans there? Is it because I don't buy Muslim products?


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Fury90flier said:


> When I was browsing for a new bow last year I ran across a couple companies that had faith phrases on/in advertising...skipped over them. The only reason they do that is to simply draw in another market share because *they know the those that believe won't question anything...just buy it becuse god says so. Yea, like it's "gods" company.*


I've never met a single person that thinks this way.


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## Rex D (Mar 23, 2013)

X2! Much respect to you brother!



cconte said:


> Well .. the bows are awesome, but I never would have been inclined to join them in the first place, if it wasn't for the fact that they are a company rooted in their faith. I would have just been an archer using whatever bow I happen to be shooting. I do business with Muslims on a daily basis, since I'm in international sales for a drilling manufacturer. I don't have a problem with Muslims, or the member of any other faith, across the board. Like most, I am concerned with the impact radicals - of any religion, have on society, but I don't turn away from individuals because of their beliefs. There is a huge difference between your average Muslim and a member of Al-Qaeda, just like the difference between your average Christian and the WBC. People are people and deserve respect and love - period. I can though, when choosing between 2 quality products, align myself with one whose beliefs are more in line with my own, just as any Muslim, Buddhist or Atheist can do.


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## DeerSlayer_T3 (Nov 25, 2012)

freebird134 said:


> My wife's new Bowtech has a bible verse on the box. Personal views aside, I find it weird how many archery companies advertise with Jesus. I mean, you don't see this in other industries. My coke or pepsi bottle doesn't advertise a faith, nor do much else. I don't know how other people feel about it, but to me it comes off as fake and just a way of saying "look at us, we are good ol' boys you can trust."
> 
> With all these hunting companies advertising their Christianity so much, it made me wonder if there are any companies of different faiths. Anyone know? Are there any atheistic companies preaching that their stuff is the product of _survival of the fittest_? Maybe Jewish companies that make good products, as long as you don't use them on pigs?  I suppose Buddhists wouldn't get into hunting but they still might make target products?




Wow


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

cconte said:


> Well .. the bows are awesome, but I never would have been inclined to join them in the first place, if it wasn't for the fact that they are a company rooted in their faith. I would have just been an archer using whatever bow I happen to be shooting. I do business with Muslims on a daily basis, since I'm in international sales for a drilling manufacturer. I don't have a problem with Muslims, or the member of any other faith, across the board. *Like most, I am concerned with the impact radicals - of any religion, have on society, but I don't turn away from individuals because of their beliefs. There is a huge difference between your average Muslim and a member of Al-Qaeda, just like the difference between your average Christian and the WBC. * People are people and deserve respect and love - period. I can though, when choosing between 2 quality products, align myself with one whose beliefs are more in line with my own, just as any Muslim, Buddhist or Atheist can do.


Ok, but the most radical "Christian" group (and I am VERY hesitant about calling them that as they are so VERY far away from Biblical teachings and have basically made up their own rules), lets say WBC because I can't think of any other ones, protests funerals and holds up anti-gay signs. Where radical muslim groups are everywhere, are following the tenets of Sharia law, and regularly kill people who don't believe as they believe and terrorize those that oppose them, kill people who call themselves gay, deny women any rights, etc. While, yes, WBC are clearly a bunch of wackos (who also vote dem), they are not anywhere near what Muslim radicals are. Inappropriate protesting vs blow up building w/innocent people...big difference.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

I still don't see how a company/corporation can be "Christian". Especially BowTech, being owned by Savage and all. They are merely catering to a demographic. Most bow purchases are from hunters, the vast majority of hunters live in rural areas, the vast majority of people in rural areas are Christian (in the US). It's marketing to their intended crowd and nothing more. It's a company after all.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

optimal_max said:


> Ok, but the most radical "Christian" group (and I am VERY hesitant about calling them that as they are so VERY far away from Biblical teachings and have basically made up their own rules), lets say WBC because I can't think of any other ones, protests funerals and holds up anti-gay signs. Where radical muslim groups are everywhere, are following the tenets of Sharia law, and regularly kill people who don't believe as they believe and terrorize those that oppose them, kill people who call themselves gay, deny women any rights, etc. While, yes, WBC are clearly a bunch of wackos (who also vote dem), they are not anywhere near what Muslim radicals are. Inappropriate protesting vs blow up building w/innocent people...big difference.


Man....it has nothing to do with this thread but there is enough blood on the hands of christians (extremists) that i would never say its a big difference. Some not that long ago.

1994 several hundred thousands killed off in Rwanda
Earlier than that catholic terror in vietnam
Catholic extermination camps in Croatia

All sad things when anything like this is done in the name of any religion- ever!

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## cconte (Feb 12, 2013)

huckfinn38 said:


> Here is another way of looking at it. Maybe they are not pushing religion on you but love you enough to share the gospel with you???? It cracks me up with people state things like "push their religion on me". When I tell people about Christ it isnt so I can feed my ego or convert someone to believe what I believe but because I want people to experience what I experience and will experience when I die. Its out of love man!


Well put! I won't argue against that there are members of the Christian faith, like there are of all faiths, that push their views, because they feel they are superior and true, however, I for one share my faith, because I am excited about it, and want others to feel what I feel - to feel the love and peace that I feel with my God. It's wrong to stereotype the the actions of Christians across the board by the works of a few. To assume that manufacturers are just using faith rhetoric to sell, is kind of a half-brained idea, as they will certainly alienate more buyers than they will win over. It's more likely, they are sharing something that they hope others can come to appreciate, and/or saying thank you to, or acknowledging, their own God for the blessings he has bestowed on them as a company. Christians do believe in sharing what we feel, but we also thank God daily (many times a day) for the grace he has freely given to us.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Garceau said:


> Man....it has nothing to do with this thread but there is enough blood on the hands of christians (extremists) that i would never say its a big difference. Some not that long ago.
> 
> 1994 several hundred thousands killed off in Rwanda
> Earlier than that catholic terror in vietnam
> ...


It's a BIG difference. How many so-called "Christian" groups have military-style training camps for their children showing them how to use assault weapons and be martyrs for Allah? There aren't any. 

As to your "references" the Rwanda deaths were caused by Hutus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide
Catholic extermination camps? More like Nazi allies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
I have no idea what you are talking about w/the Viet Nam thing....

The Crusades is the typical generic answer, but that had NOTHING to do with Biblical teaching whatsoever. People abused biblical insignia and symbols and twisted the tenets of God's Word to grab and hold power for themselves.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

optimal_max said:


> It's a BIG difference. How many so-called "Christian" groups have military-style training camps for their children showing them how to use assault weapons and be martyrs for Allah? There aren't any.
> 
> As to your "references" the Rwanda deaths were caused by Hutus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide
> Catholic extermination camps? More like Nazi allies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
> I have no idea what you are talking about w/the Viet Nam thing....


There were militant Christians, and ever worse/scarier, for many centuries. If they had bombs and guns at that time I don't think they'd have been a lot nicer than Muslims are today. 

FWIW, the NAZIs, even Hitler himself, were very devout Catholics. Just an FYI. Many people like to claim otherwise, but they're lying.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Buster of Xs said:


> *There were militant Christians, and ever worse/scarier, for many centuries*. If they had bombs and guns at that time I don't think they'd have been a lot nicer than Muslims are today.
> 
> FWIW, the NAZIs, *even Hitler himself, were very devout Catholics*. Just an FYI. Many people like to claim otherwise, but they're lying.


You are just making things up now.

No he wasn't. That is ridiculous. What are they teaching kids these days? He was an atheist, apart from believing he was god himself. And Catholicism isn't Biblical. There are no popes mentioned on the Bible, and Mary is not holy.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

optimal_max said:


> It's a BIG difference. How many so-called "Christian" groups have military-style training camps for their children showing them how to use assault weapons and be martyrs for Allah? There aren't any.
> .


Sadly in my line of work i know of too many .....but again way off topic.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Garceau said:


> Sadly in my line of work i know of too many .....but again way off topic.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2



So you know of too many "Christian" groups training their children how to kill for Allah? Really?


IF groups like you say are out there, the LIBERAL MEDIA would be bombing us with this info 24 hrs a day.


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## NewMexicoHunter (Jan 16, 2013)

I purchased my Hoyt because I LOVED the bow. I never said that to love thy neighbor you must buy Muslim products. As for the high number of orphaned and widowed Muslims. Don't you think the US military has a lot to do with it? There has been over 100,000 civilian Muslims killed in Iraq alone! But don't worry Muslims. We are gonna send a few Christian volunteers over to feed you a meal. That should suffice for the life we have taken from you.



jcslinger said:


> Why don't you enlighten me?
> 
> I was simply stating that purchasing a product is not LOVE. You seem to think that loving you neighbor means you have to buy from a Muslim. I do not believe that to be the case. I know what love is. I spend more money loving my neighbor every month than I have spent building up my entire archery setup from scratch. Yet I am accused of not loving my neighbor because I will not purchase from a known Muslim company? I have spent time in Muslim countries. I have literally fed widows and orphans there.
> 
> So tell me why there are so many widows and orphans there? Is it because I don't buy Muslim products?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

optimal_max said:


> So you know of too many "Christian" groups training their children how to kill for Allah? Really?
> 
> 
> IF groups like you say are out there, the LIBERAL MEDIA would be bombing us with this info 24 hrs a day.


Does it matter to which God they are killing for? Professing hate of another for To me it doesnt.....but thats just me.

Extremists on every side are an issue.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

optimal_max said:


> You are just making things up now.
> 
> No he wasn't. That is ridiculous. What are they teaching kids these days? He was an atheist, apart from believing he was god himself. And Catholicism isn't Biblical. There are no popes mentioned on the Bible, and Mary is not holy.


Catholicism was the first widespread form of Christianity and if you think Catholics aren't Christians then you're lost, man. :lol:

I suggest you read ANYTHING written by Hitler so you can see his Christianity written in his own words. He truly DESPISED atheists and sent them to the same camps he sent Jews.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Garceau said:


> Does it matter to which God they are killing for? Professing hate of another for To me it doesnt.....but thats just me.
> 
> Extremists on every side are an issue.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


So now you are saying you DON't know of any Christian groups that are training their children to use assault weapons and bombs to kill and die for ALLAH? Cause it certainly seemed so earlier. 

S'funny (though not really) how the atheists (like the liberal media) have no problems pointing fingers at Christians for something that happened hundreds of years ago and had nothing really to do with Christianity (other than titles and symbolism), but don't like to talk about the real threats facing us. (And no, I don't mean you Garcea, you seem like a slave to political correctness and don't want to offend anyone). :shade:


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> I purchased my Hoyt because I LOVED the bow. I never said that to love thy neighbor you must buy Muslim products. As for the high number of orphaned and widowed Muslims. Don't you think the US military has a lot to do with it? There has been over 100,000 civilian Muslims killed in Iraq alone! But don't worry Muslims. We are gonna send a few Christian volunteers over to feed you a meal. That should suffice for the life we have taken from you.


FAR more civilian Muslims are killed by other Muslims than are killed by the U.S. Military. There would be far fewer civilian deaths if the militants wouldn't shield themselves with women and children.

And the point is that Christians care about these oppressed people. We love them in many ways. It is not the government that does it ... not atheist groups ...not even Muslim groups ... Christians are there. Christians are risking their lives to bring Love into a place where Love is a capital offense.

Look at the world and see where the love is coming from. It is coming from Christians who want to spread their Savior's Love to the world. That is what Christ called us to do. Now why is it that Christians are the most persecuted group in the world? Jesus said we would be hated for His name, and that is exactly what you see in the world today. Our government is trying to instill blasphemy laws against Mohammed, yet Christians are increasingly being persecuted in our own country. Anyone that tries to deny this is not up to date on events in this country. I remember when I used to pray in front of my school in the morning ... try doing that today. Muslims are granted the freedom to pray ... Christians have been stripped of that freedom.

You don't think it takes courage to put a verse on a bow box?


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Buster of Xs said:


> Catholicism was the first widespread form of Christianity and if you think Catholics aren't Christians then you're lost, man. :lol:
> 
> I suggest you read ANYTHING written by Hitler so you can see his Christianity written in his own words. He truly DESPISED atheists and sent them to the same camps he sent Jews.


Hitler, like OBAMA, pretended to be something he wasn't to woo the people. Obama pretends to be a Christian as well, but his actions show otherwise. He SHOWED one thing, and now he is instituting his Muslim philosophies he learned when he was young. Hitler came to power by pretending to be one thing, while underneath he was a different animal. Hitler's actions did not show Christian philosophy.

And you trying to comment on things you obviously know nothing about, is like me commenting on molecular biology. There is a reason why Christians don't obey the pope, go to mass, worship Mary, etc, etc... There are MANY branches of Catholicism, and where it is at now is not the same as it once was. Big differences. Same name does not mean same thing.


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

Buster of Xs said:


> Catholicism was the first widespread form of Christianity and if you think Catholics aren't Christians then you're lost, man. :lol:
> 
> I suggest you read ANYTHING written by Hitler so you can see his Christianity written in his own words. He truly DESPISED atheists and sent them to the same camps he sent Jews.


Really? "Hitler believed Christian and Nazi beliefs were incompatible"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

"Many historians say that Hitler had a general covert plan, which some say existed even before the Nazis' rise to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich, which was to be accomplished through control and subversion of the churches and to be completed after the war."


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## NewMexicoHunter (Jan 16, 2013)

Look man, I'm not trying to offend you. You obviously care enough to try and help others, even if that means putting yourself in danger. All I'm saying is religion has it's place, and that place is not archery, for there are too many religions that should be addressed on one bow box. How do you justify prayer in schools? Not every person in school is Christian. How about a Christian prayer, followed by a Muslim prayer, followed by a Pagan prayer? I'm sure parents would love that! You are still free to pray just like anybody else.

All I'm saying is putting a Christian quote on a bow box is intended for one purpose and one purpose only, to advertise to archery's biggest demographic, Christians.



jcslinger said:


> FAR more civilian Muslims are killed by other Muslims than are killed by the U.S. Military. There would be far fewer civilian deaths if the militants wouldn't shield themselves with women and children.
> 
> And the point is that Christians care about these oppressed people. We love them in many ways. It is not the government that does it ... not atheist groups ...not even Muslim groups ... Christians are there. Christians are risking their lives to bring Love into a place where Love is a capital offense.
> 
> ...


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## whack&stack (Oct 15, 2007)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> Look man, I'm not trying to offend you. You obviously care enough to try and help others, even if that means putting yourself in danger. All I'm saying is religion has it's place, and that place is not archery, for there are too many religions that should be addressed on one bow box. How do you justify prayer in schools? Not every person in school is Christian. How about a Christian prayer, followed by a Muslim prayer, followed by a Pagan prayer? I'm sure parents would love that! You are still free to pray just like anybody else.
> 
> All I'm saying is putting a Christian quote on a bow box is intended for one purpose and one purpose only, to advertise to archery's biggest demographic, Christians.


Easy this country this founded by Christians. The country is allowing of all religions doesn't mean they have to be recognized by a prayer in school. Too PC nowadays is the problem. 


This message typed by a "Trigger punching- shoulder bustin-bow hunter!"


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> All I'm saying is putting a Christian quote on a bow box is intended for one purpose and one purpose only, to advertise to archery's biggest demographic, Christians.


A company that uses my Lord's name as a marketing gimmick is phony, and I do not support phony. That said, I don't think too many are stupid enough to risk their company over a marketing gimmick. The disciples did not willingly go to their deaths over a lie. The IRS love to put "extra scrutiny" on anything Christian these days.

If God is just imaginary, why is it that atheists get so bent out of shape about any mention of Him in public life? You don't see them running to destroy every trace of Santa Claus from public view. I am sick and tired of the whining coming from those that don't want to be faced with the reality of God and the responsibility that comes with that reality. They want all reminders to be erased, so they can go through their lives without feeling guilty.

You don't like a verse on your bow box? Stop supporting companies that put verses on the box. Quit whining about the companies that choose to take a stand.


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## leperkhaun (Apr 20, 2013)

jcslinger said:


> A company that uses my Lord's name as a marketing gimmick is phony, and I do not support phony. That said, I don't think too many are stupid enough to risk their company over a marketing gimmick. The disciples did not willingly go to their deaths over a lie. The IRS love to put "extra scrutiny" on anything Christian these days.
> 
> If God is just imaginary, why is it that atheists get so bent out of shape about any mention of Him in public life? You don't see them running to destroy every trace of Santa Claus from public view. I am sick and tired of the whining coming from those that don't want to be faced with the reality of God and the responsibility that comes with that reality. They want all reminders to be erased, so they can go through their lives without feeling guilty.
> 
> You don't like a verse on your bow box? Stop supporting companies that put verses on the box. Quit whining about the companies that choose to take a stand.


Santa Claus isnt being used to say things like the earth is only 6000 years old. Santa Claus isnt being used to deny gay couples the same rights as straight couples. Santa Claus isnt being used to justify laws that allow kids to bully other kids and use their religion to justify it. Santa Claus isnt being used to force one groups views on others. Santa Claus isnt being used to deny science. Santa Claus isnt being used to teach kids that a creation story is what happened even when all of the evidience suggests otherwise.


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## NewMexicoHunter (Jan 16, 2013)

You just don't get it! I'm a Catholic! I love my God! As does anybody involved with any religion. I will one day face god as everyone else. I don't think he's gonna ask me, "Why didn't you buy a Bowtech? It has my scripture written on the box." If the scripture was ANY other religion, I would believe it's not a marketing gimmick! It's not a risk of your company when 90% of your customers are Christian. Wake up! Keep shooting your Bowtech and God bless you! I'm done arguing this pointless topic with you.



jcslinger said:


> A company that uses my Lord's name as a marketing gimmick is phony, and I do not support phony. That said, I don't think too many are stupid enough to risk their company over a marketing gimmick. The disciples did not willingly go to their deaths over a lie. The IRS love to put "extra scrutiny" on anything Christian these days.
> 
> If God is just imaginary, why is it that atheists get so bent out of shape about any mention of Him in public life? You don't see them running to destroy every trace of Santa Claus from public view. I am sick and tired of the whining coming from those that don't want to be faced with the reality of God and the responsibility that comes with that reality. They want all reminders to be erased, so they can go through their lives without feeling guilty.
> 
> You don't like a verse on your bow box? Stop supporting companies that put verses on the box. Quit whining about the companies that choose to take a stand.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

Christian`s have only one GOD and one bible,all the rest are cults. our USA is having some really bad times, its time to start praying in schools again,learning only english,saying the pledge of the legion under GOD,no more special interest groups , bring back capital punishment and death sentence by public hanging. if someone kills someone on purpose thats the death sentence within 90 days period.if a young person gets caught with drugs he or she has two choice`s marines or prison ,lets give them a chance.as far as someone putting a christian message on the box i personally think that`s great ! i thank them, it always needs to be said maybe we will have less broken families. and here`s one more prayer ! may our dear LORD help us with this country the USA solve our white house problems peacefully.Pete53


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Pete53 said:


> Christian`s have only one GOD and one bible,all the rest are cults. our USA is having some really bad times, its time to start praying in schools again,learning only english,saying the pledge of the legion under GOD,no more special interest groups , bring back capital punishment and death sentence by public hanging. if someone kills someone on purpose thats the death sentence within 90 days period.if a young person gets caught with drugs he or she has two choice`s marines or prison ,lets give them a chance.as far as someone putting a christian message on the box i personally think that`s great ! i thank them, it always needs to be said maybe we will have less broken families. and here`s one more prayer ! may our dear LORD help us with this country the USA solve our white house problems peacefully.Pete53


Pete you mention the death penalty....what about one of those commandments?

What Whitehouse problems? Was it not God's will that O was elected?

This is where these debates always get fun.....and of course the pledge of allegiance was changed years after it was put in play to add God, but thats old news.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Dmaxdmax (May 4, 2013)

I wonder if Jesus would have liked His name on a sword or any weapon for any reason. 
Actually, I don't wonder at all. I'm sure he would be disgusted.


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

freebird134 said:


> You could say similar things about some christian groups
> 
> View attachment 1631013


This is not a christian organization. The fact that they claim as much is disgusting. These people are the largest group of hypocrites ever. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Kb83 said:


> This is not a christian organization. The fact that they claim as much is disgusting. These people are the largest group of hypocrites ever.
> 
> sent from my LG Escape.


How are they not? Some would argue they are strict adherents to the exact word of the bible.....i dont but that argument is being waged in another forum.

i enjoy a good debate, i recognize the hipocrasy in many thing in life, some i partake in.....im ok with that. Im not perfect 

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## whack&stack (Oct 15, 2007)

freebird134 said:


> Well, I'm waiting.... if he finds me, I'll be all in!
> .


Sounds like he showed up at your house on a bowtech box and your convicted enough to make a thread. 


This message typed by a "Trigger punching- shoulder bustin-bow hunter!"


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

NewMexicoHunter said:


> You just don't get it! I'm a Catholic! I love my God! As does anybody involved with any religion. I will one day face god as everyone else. I don't think he's gonna ask me, "Why didn't you buy a Bowtech? It has my scripture written on the box." If the scripture was ANY other religion, I would believe it's not a marketing gimmick! It's not a risk of your company when 90% of your customers are Christian. Wake up! Keep shooting your Bowtech and God bless you! I'm done arguing this pointless topic with you.


I don't get it? I never said you would answer to God for the bow choice you make. I said I PERSONALLY support companies that agree with my values. I make a choice of where I spend my dollars. I could care less where you spend your dollars. As a general rule, it does not make sense to support a company that actively works against your beliefs. If I were an atheist, I would seriously consider how important my beliefs were before buying a "Christian" bow. Buy whatever the heck you want. I am only saying how I make my own PERSONAL choices.

And what does it matter if 90% of your customer base is Christian if the anti-Christian government puts you out of business for your Christian stance? What is 90% times zero? Don't think it can happen here? You haven't been reading the news.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

jcslinger said:


> Really? "Hitler believed Christian and Nazi beliefs were incompatible"
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
> 
> "Many historians say that Hitler had a general covert plan, which some say existed even before the Nazis' rise to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich, which was to be accomplished through control and subversion of the churches and to be completed after the war."


Here's a Hitler quote for you to ponder....

*"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."*

Chew on that a while. Try ditching Wiki and read what the man actually wrote himself. Revisionist history can say anything, but stick to his own writings if you want to know what he believed.

Or try this quote from Hitler himself.....

*"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922*


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

Buster of Xs said:


> Here's a Hitler quote for you to ponder....


1922: In the early stages of the Nazi party, a master orator and master of public opinion uses words to sway a majority Christian population in order to build his power base. Is it maybe possible that he said one thing and meant another? By now we all should be smart enough to see through the lies from politicians ... sadly, that is not the case when looking at our own voting public.

If Hitler said how he really felt about Christianity, he would never have gained power. Of course we know how this one ends. Don't forget the thousands of priests that were interred in concentration camps and killed for their adherence to the Bible instead of swearing allegiance to the Nazi church. The Nazis had plans to destroy the Church of England if the British hadn't fought so valiantly during the Battle of Britan.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Buster of Xs said:


> Here's a Hitler quote for you to ponder....
> 
> *"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."*
> 
> ...


Nice try...he didn't speak English. :shade: And even so, Jesus never called for the annihilation of the Jews. So he couldn't even fake it properly.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

These AH quotes sound like they come straight out of the Bible - ::

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."
"It is not truth that matters, but victory."
"I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few."

He must have been reading the ABRIDGED version...


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## jcslinger (Jan 6, 2013)

optimal_max said:


> These AH quotes sound like they come straight out of the Bible - ::
> 
> "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."
> "It is not truth that matters, but victory."
> ...


I was thinking that these quotes came from a modern training manual for politicians?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

The main point has gotten off track, hasn't it?


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> The main point has gotten off track, hasn't it?


Yeah, I'm thinkin it has somehting to do with El Nino.


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Garceau said:


> How are they not? Some would argue they are strict adherents to the exact word of the bible.....i dont but that argument is being waged in another forum.
> 
> i enjoy a good debate, i recognize the hipocrasy in many thing in life, some i partake in.....im ok with that. Im not perfect
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Just look at the signs in that picture. "God hates". The bible says to love thy neighbor and do onto others as you would do onto yourself. These people are doing nothing but using their religion as a platform from which the spout their hate and ignorance. They are completely transparent. The lord does not hate. He loves everyone. They also use the rights given to them in the amendments to speak their hatred openly. Many times against the same military that both provided and protect those rights. But anyways.....sorry to get off topic. 

I'm all for companies that openly display their faith. That is getting increasingly more difficult to do in todays world. More power to them. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## Dmaxdmax (May 4, 2013)

Companies don't have faith, individuals have faith. Owners, executives, managers, worker-bees and assistants have faith. 
Companies have marketing departments.


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## huckfinn38 (Nov 3, 2011)

People keep using people like hitler and the hateful Christians to prove a point. Guys they may claim to be Christians but God says you will know them by the fruit they bear. Did Hitler bear fruit?


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## huckfinn38 (Nov 3, 2011)

Dmaxdmax said:


> Companies don't have faith, individuals have faith. Owners, executives, managers, worker-bees and assistants have faith.
> Companies have marketing departments.


Companies have a culture which can be Christian. 
I buy a bow for how it feels and shoots. However if the company promotes and recognizes Christ I am proud to support them if I like their product. If 2 products feel or work the same and 1 company promotes Christianity I chose them. I also may chose not to buy products from a company who promotes ideas I don't agree with. Great part about America. Freedom of choices. ...well for now


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## Dmaxdmax (May 4, 2013)

Owners and Execs can establish a Christian culture that worker-bees and assistants pretend to fit into to keep their jobs.

I can't think of any choice I had a decade ago that I don't have now outside of taking water on the plane and assuming anything I do might end up on youtube.


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## schuh (Jan 11, 2010)

Religion as a marketing ploy is not very Christian.That unveil this year didn't look very Christian.Their customer service isn't that Christian,ever try to get your flaking limbs replaced.Unless they're giving the bulk of their profits to charity it's just talk.

They know the consumer and the great majority is Christian.It's just marketing.


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## tony21 (Nov 18, 2009)

huckfinn38 said:


> Here is another way of looking at it. Maybe they are not pushing religion on you but love you enough to share the gospel with you???? It cracks me up with people state things like "push their religion on me". When I tell people about Christ it isnt so I can feed my ego or convert someone to believe what I believe but because I want people to experience what I experience and will experience when I die. Its out of love man!


Regardless of my or your beliefs...if I were to own a a company making a 400 IBO 8" brace bow and when shipped to you bold print on box said all hail Allah, or Damian>Jesus you would have no problem buying this bow? As long as i accepted and followed buddah or Damien it would make it ok for you....right?


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## Varmintwade (Jun 17, 2012)

The Jack Minor foundation started banding waterfowl before anyone. Including all wildlife institutions. He was the person that figured out how far they were migrating. It is a huge trophy in the waterfowl sport to harvest a bird with a "Jack Minor" band on it. I have one myself, and it has a bible verse on it. Its from the book of Revelation. I cant remember the exact verse without looking but it says "behold I come quickly" I think its very cool!


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## huckfinn38 (Nov 3, 2011)

tony21 said:


> Regardless of my or your beliefs...if I were to own a a company making a 400 IBO 8" brace bow and when shipped to you bold print on box said all hail Allah, or Damian>Jesus you would have no problem buying this bow? As long as i accepted and followed buddah or Damien it would make it ok for you....right?


I have the right not to buy this bow and I would not.


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## huckfinn38 (Nov 3, 2011)

Simple guys if you don't like Chritianity on their product don't buy it. Or start your own company and put wgatever you want on it. It cracks me up how threatened some of you guys are by religion when you have a choice not to buy. Buy a Pse. I'm not aware of any ties to religion they have.


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## alligood729 (Mar 25, 2007)

mikelleen said:


> It is an interesting question. As a Chistian I USED to be uncomfortable with companies that _blatently_ marketed their faith. My concern being that using Christianity to help with sales is counter to my view of my faith.
> 
> However in recent years, as rabid leftist attacks against both Christianity, and the freedom of speach to proclaim that faith, I now consider such public statements of faith both refreshing and brave.
> 
> ...


This^^^^ Agree 100%


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## Dmaxdmax (May 4, 2013)

That's not what happened at Chic Fil A. He didn't simply express an opinion, he donated many millions of dollars to anti-gay rights organizations and prohibited same-sex families to attend their retreats. That's not expression, that's action and it's the nature of our open society for those in opposition to take action against it.


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## wickedarachnid (May 28, 2013)

My wife and friends all shoot diamond bows and I shoot a Ross, all of which have the "in God we trust" printed on them. I am not a claimed "Christian "but I do believe in God and I am glad they believe in the values and beliefs in which this country was built on. We need God back in this corrupt government and our lives. I support bowtech for taking this stand.


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## rayzor43 (Apr 8, 2011)

atennishu said:


> I find that it is easier to judge a mans true faith by his acts, than the slogan on his t-shirt


I'm glad to see this post.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

Well heck they have to do something because they are all going to hell for lying about their IBO rated speeds.. :noidea:


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## PUGIDOGS (Mar 17, 2005)

I've kinda laid back and followed this thread, a pastor once told me, look at a man's bank account and you can see where his heart lays. Anyone can look at my account and see my heart lays with Jesus, my savior, who forgave, even a wretch like me of my sins. Same pastor also said, scratch any sin and just below the surface will be pride. Be proud of what you do but do not boast of it. And in closing, there is a big difference between good and godly, don't confuse them, one will lead to eternal salvation, the other will not.


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## tialloydragon (Mar 14, 2013)

I am an atheist, and I am sure there are plenty of Christian bow companies. Most probably don't write scripture passages on their products. However, if it is a good product, and you don't like what is written on it, hydrodip it black and continue to enjoy it.

All I know is if you have to turn to prayer to get your arrows on target, your equipment is way out of tune.


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## wolverine1 (Oct 20, 2009)

PUGIDOGS said:


> I've kinda laid back and followed this thread, a pastor once told me, look at a man's bank account and you can see where his heart lays. Anyone can look at my account and see my heart lays with Jesus, my savior, who forgave, even a wretch like me of my sins. Same pastor also said, scratch any sin and just below the surface will be pride. Be proud of what you do but do not boast of it. And in closing, there is a big difference between good and godly, don't confuse them, one will lead to eternal salvation, the other will not.


X2, right on brotha!


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## Trinity Archery (Nov 8, 2005)

My wife and I started Trinity Archery to get tools in guys hands to help them share about Christ. We have a field staff, the only requirement to be part of the staff ministry is to love Jesus and have a desire to share the gospel. You do not have to shoot our products to be part of the staff and I would say that 60-70% do not shoot our products. 

Here is the link to our staff app so you can see what we are about. It is not about selling product, it is about relationships and sharing the gospel. http://trinityarchery.wufoo.com/forms/m7x3r3/

Matthew 10:32-33 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.


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## Hunt4Jesus (Jan 12, 2006)

I just found this thread through athens site, The way I live my life and now ministry is to mimic Jesus and be Christ like. His word is powerful and real, he calls us to whatever we do work at it with all our heart AS IF WE ARE WORKING FOR THE LORD. Also he states, if you deny me, i will deny you to the father. People can be modest and take a selling approach, but any company who is stamped by the Power of the Lord is one who will succeed under any circumstances(Chick Filet). Still dominates the fast food area and closed on a busy day. We are beginning a vision I have had for 10 years, It is something that God has laid on my heart, and we have drained our finances to get this going. We are a ministry, but have set it up as a business. Everything we are doing to is to Bless/Serve. The ultimate vision is to bless. We might crash and burn, but I know in my heart and the Lord does also, that its true and for him. I applaud companies who live out their faith on products. If one person is changed through it, then their work is complete. Thank you trinity and others for living your faith, I hope we can bless ya'll as you have blessed me. Col 3:2 states set you minds on things above and not on earthly things. If only every company lived by that verse. We would be all following the challenge mark 16:15, go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He is not stating how to do it, he just tells all to preach. God will choose to harden the hearts of those he chooses and soften those he decides.


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## TrophyDriver87 (Apr 29, 2013)

I believe its all just a hoax to help advertise ..


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## Hunt4Jesus (Jan 12, 2006)

Dragon, you bring a great point. In the world of archery, I have prayed God deliver this arrow to hit the deer, but God is most concerned about my faith not the deer. In life we must ask ourselves Are we sighted in? I do not know you, but I am sure you have dealt with issues, struggles, and problems. Where do you turn when those things arise. I know I do so much better when I am sighted in to the father. He is the only hope that will not falter. Beer, drugs, and list goes on all run out, but God is always there. We are the ones that just need tuning. So yes the equipment can be way out of tune, and walk back method will not work, its the walk to that will fix that. I am praying for you, and your heart. Our only hope is Christ the solid rock we stand, all other is sinking sand.


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## Don Schultz (Jul 5, 2002)

Happily, Bowtech, Mathews/Mission, Hunter Safety Systems, Buck Knives, and other companies have owners who exercise their faith this way, and they have the right, here, to do so. There are aggressive atheists, but their message usually doesn't come out in this way. 

You may buy from whom you wish.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

tialloydragon said:


> All I know is if you have to turn to prayer to get your arrows on target, your equipment is way out of tune.




I can't believe this thread is still alive. Since posting, I bought a new Bowtech myself. I still think its unfortunate that the bowtech company believes in fairy tales, but dang they make a good bow. I did print out a little label to fix their silly "In God we trust" so it says more appropriately for the scientist that I am "in DATA we trust"

God Bless


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## azscorpion (Feb 12, 2010)

Don't even get me started on the "My Invisible Man in the sky is greater than your Invisible Man in the sky" debate....


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## Krash (May 29, 2012)

Can anyone list all the archery companies that are Christian.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

freebird134 said:


> My wife's new Bowtech has a bible verse on the box...... to me it comes off as fake and just a way of saying *"look at us, we are good ol' boys you can trust."* .......


Your entitled to your opinion and assumptions, however, without more than that, you have nothing to stand on.

By the way, I hope your wife shoots her bow religiously. ;-)


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Krash said:


> Can anyone list all the archery companies that are Christian.


I want to see a list of non Christian archery companies.


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## Krash (May 29, 2012)

Wouldn't mind seeing that also. So I would know which ones to avoid


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

^^^ahhhh, there's that good Christian attitude!


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## pitbullman (Oct 24, 2012)

freebird134 said:


> ^^^ahhhh, there's that good Christian attitude!



What's so bad about buying from Christian only business?


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## Finq (Jul 12, 2009)

tenpin said:


> This is why AMERICA is the greatest country in the world.. our freedoms..... Besides your own personal beliefs of who is right or wrong... *try this in another country and you could be punished up to death*. America will always rein supreme as long as we have freedom.. I will always live by standing for what I believe..


In most european countries, you'd just be belittled. Not killed.


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## grytvikken (Mar 29, 2012)

Would you buy a good bow off a company thats CEO said there was no God in his or her opinion?
I would suggest if you say no .........................that your crazy.

Really people there is no God .... there is just people who want to believe there is a God.


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## pitbullman (Oct 24, 2012)

grytvikken said:


> Would you buy a good bow off a company thats CEO said there was no God in his or her opinion?
> I would suggest if you say no .........................that your crazy.
> 
> Really people there is no God .... there is just people who want to believe there is a God.




Well you know what they say about opinions!!!!


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## Krash (May 29, 2012)

freebird134 said:


> ^^^ahhhh, there's that good Christian attitude!


If I have the option to buy from a fellow follower of Christ I will do it everytime. If you can't appreciate that, then that's your problem.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

freebird134 said:


> I want to see a list of non Christian archery companies.


What makes a company "christian" or "non christian"?


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## sa-shooter (Apr 21, 2013)

I think this whole topic is a load of bull. Does it really matter what the companies religious standpoint is. It doesnt make the product better or worse. I am a proud Christian but i wont refuse to buy a product becuase i have to buy it from someone that does not believe in what i do.

If your family is starving and is on the verge of passing on... will you realy pass on a loaf of bread cuz the guy offering it is not christian?

Even though i am Christian, it does not give me the right to pass judgement onto others that arent. Faith is a choice, and if you choose not to have faith then thats fine, just dont turn around and tell people they are stupid for having faith in something rather than nothing.

My opinion, take it or leave it. It makes no difference to me

SAS


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## Finq (Jul 12, 2009)

> Faith is a choice


That's the only thing I disagree with, otherwise - well said.

I think some of the religious stuff is corny and I sometimes can't tell marketing apart from actual believes, but whatever. I buy what fits me, what's build solid and what I like. I won't base my purchases on my or anyone's believes.


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## askbowdaddy (Jun 27, 2009)

What is the bible verse?


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## InjunJR (Jul 25, 2011)

askbowdaddy said:


> What is the bible verse?


"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus..."


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## brandent1 (Jun 11, 2011)

Its one of the many reasons I shoot a Bowtech.


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## Concept_Archery (Jul 22, 2008)

Concept Archery:
We are a Christian based company and all 5 share holders are firm believers in Christ. We have a model named the Believer decorated in God's Country Camo which can be seen here: http://conceptarchery.com/Believer.html

We also have the Believer G1 decorated in Next G1 camo and with no Christian symbols and so just because we _believe_ doesn't mean we force it on others.

Our bows feature 99% let off, which is what really make us stand out, but we also believe in outstanding customer service and top quality components that are all made in the USA. Compare our $25 needle roller bearings that are a 1/4" wide (1/2" total platform for axles to spin on) in our cam and idler wheels to foreign made ball bearings used by 90+% of all other bow manufacturers. We have limbsaver products throughout the bows including virgin Teflon cable rod slides. Research the cost of our slide verses the cheaper black plastic ones that other companies use that often break or make noise. Yes, we get manufacturing pricing from Limbsaver, but you can bet it's no where near the $0.30 we would pay if we went to black foreign plastic slides. Gordon Composite limbs out of Denver, Colorado - they've been making limbs for over 50 years, maybe 60, and hence one of the reasons why our limb failure rate is below 1%; they make some of the best if not the best, fiberglass in the world. One piece risers that won't bend, break, rattle or cause vibration where they're bolted together. We're small but growing and rather put quality into our products and let word of mouth sell them, than cut corners and to boast big ads. And by no means am I say all other bow companies put out bad bows, for there are many great companies out there, but we put the very best in ours so that our bows are for a lifetime and therefore lifetime warrantied (other then camo finish, string and cable). We purchased the company in 2007, have all of our bills paid, bows in stock with more coming due to a rapid growth spurt, and overall the Lord has been good to us even in this difficult recession.

I'm not on these forums much, but just thought I'd chime in.


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

sad


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## mnshortdraw (Mar 6, 2006)

Soul Stealer said:


> I find whoring out your religion and faith to be distasteful practice.


As do I. What in the world does Christianity have to do with archery equipment? Maybe this thread should be moved into a more appropriate section since it's clearly a debate about religion.


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## Concept_Archery (Jul 22, 2008)

_What in the world does Christianity have to do with archery equipment?_

It may have nothing to do with the equipment, but Christian based companies should have values, morals and "treat others the way we want to be treated" therefore the company should have no legitimate complaints with the BBB, offer outstanding customer service and well, why would I want to financially support those that disbelieve in our way of life, including the freedom of religion? Many simply want us dead? Why give more money to China where women and kids are slave laborers for ridiculously long days and often abused physically and sexually, or give money to a country that imprisons or kills those that simply possess a bible?


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## tunit57401 (Oct 14, 2008)

So being a graduate from a Christian Bible college(yes the Bible part does matter), I find this to be a very good debate and obviously where I stand well is obvious. Is it cool that there are christian companies putting verses on stuff? Of course it is. Do I like to support them? I try too. But it shouldn't be based upon what companies we use or what we are or drive. When we do that we make Christianity into being legalistic. A person should be able to tell that we are Christians based upon our actions and words. It comes down to doing as Jesus and everything we do stems from love and we need to love unconditionally. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and the best way to put it is: it's not my job to make anyone believe. True Christians should be seed planters. God makes the seed grow and water it.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

I am guessing even rent by the hour motels have bibles in the drawers...


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## IAWoodsman (Nov 30, 2012)

I don't have a problem with a company promoting their faith (assuming their faith doesn't promote killing and hatred), that's what this country is all about and they can do it. If some Jewish, atheist, etc. makes a rest or sight that I think will make me better then I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. I'll buy what I think is the best, I could care less about the religious beliefs of the owner.

If you want to support christian companies, great. If you want to support atheist companies, great. Just don't condemn others if they disagree with you. Freedom of religion is a beautiful thing.


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## Wood (Aug 3, 2006)

The truth will make you free! Why wouldn't anyone want to share that?


InjunJR said:


> "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus..."


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## kwfarmnranch (Sep 24, 2012)

Many people tell me that if I dry fire my bow that I may damage it and that if I shoot cracked and damaged carbon arrows they could blow up and cause me bodily harm....but thats just their opinion right ? Sure its not !!! Some things are opinion but many things in life are Fact not opinion. GOD is real and that is a fact and I pray for everyone who has not accepted this fact. For one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess this fact. I am a business owner as well and by the grace of GOD I am a Christian and I enjoy doing business with other Christians. I stand amazed at the people esp. fellow hunters who have watched the sunrise and set from a tree while enjoying GODS creation can deny something as magnificent as your CREATOR.


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

kwfarmnranch said:


> Many people tell me that if I dry fire my bow that I may damage it and that if I shoot cracked and damaged carbon arrows they could blow up and cause me bodily harm....but thats just their opinion right ? Sure its not !!! Some things are opinion but many things in life are Fact not opinion. GOD is real and that is a fact and I pray for everyone who has not accepted this fact. For one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess this fact. I am a business owner as well and by the grace of GOD I am a Christian and I enjoy doing business with other Christians. I stand amazed at the people esp. fellow hunters who have watched the sunrise and set from a tree while enjoying GODS creation can deny something as magnificent as your CREATOR.


This statement is really scary


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## Commander Cody (Nov 24, 2006)

Not sure why it would be scary; just one person's belief. I thought it was very well put.


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## Hard-Core (Nov 6, 2012)

freebird134 said:


> My wife's new Bowtech has a bible verse on the box. Personal views aside, I find it weird how many archery companies advertise with Jesus. I mean, you don't see this in other industries. My coke or pepsi bottle doesn't advertise a faith, nor do much else. I don't know how other people feel about it, but to me it comes off as fake and just a way of saying "look at us, we are good ol' boys you can trust."
> 
> With all these hunting companies advertising their Christianity so much, it made me wonder if there are any companies of different faiths. Anyone know? Are there any atheistic companies preaching that their stuff is the product of _survival of the fittest_? Maybe Jewish companies that make good products, as long as you don't use them on pigs?  I suppose Buddhists wouldn't get into hunting but they still might make target products?


Ummm.. actually there are many companies who advertise using verses and other stuff... Forever 21, Chick-Fila, In-n-out Burger, Hobby Lobby, etc.... so it does show outside archery.
Forever 21 and In-n-out Burger both post Verses on their bags and stuff.. just sayin.


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

Commander Cody said:


> Not sure why it would be scary; just one person's belief. I thought it was very well put.


He says that his imaginary friends exist and it's a fact


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## m_baker_12 (May 13, 2010)

kwfarmnranch said:


> Many people tell me that if I dry fire my bow that I may damage it and that if I shoot cracked and damaged carbon arrows they could blow up and cause me bodily harm....but thats just their opinion right ? Sure its not !!! Some things are opinion but many things in life are Fact not opinion. GOD is real and that is a fact and I pray for everyone who has not accepted this fact. For one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess this fact. I am a business owner as well and by the grace of GOD I am a Christian and I enjoy doing business with other Christians. I stand amazed at the people esp. fellow hunters who have watched the sunrise and set from a tree while enjoying GODS creation can deny something as magnificent as your CREATOR.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I pray for all non believers.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Such a stupid close minded thread. Atheists don't all believe in evolution. Jews would have about half the same versus as Christians. Hindis and any other non American religion wouldn't advertise their religion because the backlash would be far greater than something a Christian company would put : / idiots stereotyping to the max.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

There is only one god...Praise Allah.........................


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## Jebus (Oct 1, 2014)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> There is only one god...Praise Allah.........................


I'm more of an Invisible Pink Unicorn kind of guy....Praise Jebus.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

kwfarmnranch said:


> Many people tell me that if I dry fire my bow that I may damage it and that if I shoot cracked and damaged carbon arrows they could blow up and cause me bodily harm....but thats just their opinion right ? Sure its not !!! Some things are opinion but many things in life are Fact not opinion. GOD is real and that is a fact and *I pray for everyone who has not accepted this fact.* For one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess this fact. I am a business owner as well and by the grace of GOD I am a Christian and I enjoy doing business with other Christians. I stand amazed at the people esp. fellow hunters who have watched the sunrise and set from a tree while enjoying GODS creation can deny something as magnificent as your CREATOR.


what a horribly offensive statement.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Jebus said:


> I'm more of an Invisible Pink Unicorn kind of guy....Praise Jebus.


im happily swimming with the unicorns in the cotton candy sky and then i am gonna dance with the blue bananas on the purple monkey boat!!!


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## ashaid (Nov 24, 2013)

I think its awesome they do this, wish more Companies, people werent as afraid to do so as well.....Good for Bowtech...also HSS is as well, when I bought my 8yr old Son his harness last season on their DVD the owner stopped and paused and said a Prayer for all who wear their harnesses for safety...thats awesome!!!!!!

<+><


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## Deserthuntr (Nov 23, 2008)

To Freebird and all the other non-Christians on this thread: Why does it bother you so much to find a Bible verse in/on your box or on a bow made by a Christian owned company? Why not then just buy from another company or start your own company? Why must you blatantly mention this in a thread? See that is what the world does, it says something in hope to find someone who sides with them and start an uprising against anything Christian. YES, we are Christians, we have the right to put a scripture on our products or to quote scripture in a conversation, write it on our walls and in our hearts or wherever we think it will make a positive change in our lives and in the world. 

If a company puts scripture on their products, it is not to harm anyone. And it doesn't harm anyone. But people react as as if someone cursed them with that Bible verse! I don't understand it. For me, people who are against motivating scripture on products are also against anything good in this world.

And yes, Christianity is under fire in the USA. I can see it all the way from Africa, why can't you? Your government and media is supporting all that is against the Christian faith, very subtle, but still so obvious. Everybody is trying to tell Christians what to do, and as true Christians are mostly gentle spirits seeking peace, we just agree and avoid conflict. Just as the person who started this thread, please do away with your scripture, it is bothering me and my fellow non-Christians. Is it not what you are trying to say all through the thread? Why is it bothering you so much, I wonder?

I salute any company, who in the political world of today, still has the courage to say: "We believe in Christ, here is a nice piece of scripture to remind you of God's love".


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

I would just take the propaganda out of the bow box and throw it in the trash,i tell any of the bible thumpers who show up at my door off..That's my choice and what i believe in..


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## Jebus (Oct 1, 2014)

Deserthuntr said:


> Why does it bother you so much to find a Bible verse in/on your box or on a bow made by a Christian owned company? Why not then just buy from another company or start your own company?


I wish I could. If there was an archery company that openly came out as Atheistic or anti-christian, I'd buy every product they sold. But instead I am forced to buy from Christian companies or make my own bow. And I'm not much of a bow maker.



Deserthuntr said:


> If a company puts scripture on their products, it is not to harm anyone. And it doesn't harm anyone. But people react as as if someone cursed them with that Bible verse!


Would you feel the same way if your bow had a quote from the quran on it? Maybe it could say Praise Allah? I'd rather my bow stick to facts, like draw weight and string length instead of posting fictional sayings on my products.



Deserthuntr said:


> ...Christianity is under fire in the USA. I can see it all the way from Africa, why can't you?


Oh, I see it. And it makes me smile.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Deserthuntr said:


> To Freebird and all the other non-Christians on this thread: Why does it bother you so much to find a Bible verse in/on your box or on a bow made by a Christian owned company? Why not then just buy from another company or start your own company? Why must you blatantly mention this in a thread? See that is what the world does, it says something in hope to find someone who sides with them and start an uprising against anything Christian. YES, we are Christians, we have the right to put a scripture on our products or to quote scripture in a conversation, write it on our walls and in our hearts or wherever we think it will make a positive change in our lives and in the world.
> 
> If a company puts scripture on their products, it is not to harm anyone. And it doesn't harm anyone. But people react as as if someone cursed them with that Bible verse! I don't understand it. For me, people who are against motivating scripture on products are also against anything good in this world.
> 
> ...


Maybe you shouldn't be so close minded. Just because one is not Christian does not mean they are offended by Christian scripture. I don't give a ****. What i do care about are the rampant stereotypes people keep writing about throughout this thread like you just did that simply make christians look stupid and hunters look like dumb ******** who have never left more than 10 miles from their home.

You're in the us vs them mentality and I'm sure there are atheists and other religions with the same. Doesn't mean you should follow suit.

I could really care less about prayer in schools, god on dollar bills, scripture on something I bought.


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> I would just take the propaganda out of the bow box and throw it in the trash,i tell any of the bible thumpers who show up at my door off..That's my choice and what i believe in..


I used to be just like you.


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## Donjr721 (Mar 25, 2013)

It's great that companies are bold in their Christian faith. As a follower of Christ we should be bold , as Paul was when preaching to the Gentiles. I think that those of us that who believe that through Christ we will be granted everlasting life in Heaven should be bold as well. I see a lot of people, myself included , who will go to church and bible study, but lack this boldness. The time is upon us where Christians are being persecuted, some even killed. So if you believe in salvation through Jesus, let's be bold in our walk in faith. Share the word. 
Support companies who are willing to share the word. If I knew a company that intentionally put a blasphemist statement against Christianity on there product, I would definitely not buy it. 

I didn't realize that bowtech did this. I am a proud owner of a bowtech. This is awesome.


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## Deserthuntr (Nov 23, 2008)

Chopayne said:


> What i do care about are the rampant stereotypes people keep writing about throughout this thread like you just did that simply make christians look stupid and hunters look like dumb ******** who have never left more than 10 miles from their home.


I am not stereotype and I don't make Christians or bowhunters look stupid. That is only your view and opinion.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

whack n' stack said:


> I used to be just like you.


I am a Catholic,i went to a Catholic school from 4 years old until i was 14 years old.I am sick of religion and all the killing and war it starts.I am no bible thumper or no atheist.I am just not a follower of any religion any longer,people who want to preach it down others throats and then turn around and go to war against others who believe in some other religion has made we not want to have anything to do with it...Grizz


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Deserthuntr said:


> I am not stereotype and I don't make Christians or bowhunters look stupid. That is only your view and opinion.


Right. Read what you posted. Keep charging hard!!! And alienate everyone else because who cares I'm a Christian!!!


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Donjr721 said:


> It's great that companies are bold in their Christian faith. As a follower of Christ we should be bold , as Paul was when preaching to the Gentiles. I think that those of us that who believe that through Christ we will be granted everlasting life in Heaven should be bold as well. I see a lot of people, myself included , who will go to church and bible study, but lack this boldness. The time is upon us where Christians are being persecuted, some even killed. So if you believe in salvation through Jesus, let's be bold in our walk in faith. Share the word.
> Support companies who are willing to share the word. If I knew a company that intentionally put a blasphemist statement against Christianity on there product, I would definitely not buy it.
> 
> I didn't realize that bowtech did this. I am a proud owner of a bowtech. This is awesome.


There's always been Christians being killed by other extremists...probably less now than before. Maybe research history?


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## Donjr721 (Mar 25, 2013)

Chopayne said:


> There's always been Christians being killed by other extremists...probably less now than before. Maybe research history?


I realize this, definitely more way back, we will see it happening more. No research needed here.


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## Deserthuntr (Nov 23, 2008)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> I am a Catholic,i went to a Catholic school from 4 years old until i was 14 years old.I am sick of religion and all the killing and war it starts.I am no bible thumper or no atheist.I am just not a follower of any religion any longer,people who want to preach it down others throats and then turn around and go to war against others who believe in some other religion has made we not want to have anything to do with it...Grizz


I understand how you feel and I am sorry. It is a shame what people have done and still do in the "name of religion". Many wars have been fought apparently about religious differences, where it has actually been about land, gold, oil or fortune. Unfortunately religion is mostly made up by man, not by God. The Bible teach us to love one another and live in peace with one another.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Deserthuntr said:


> I understand how you feel and I am sorry. It is a shame what people have done and still do in the "name of religion". Many wars have been fought apparently about religious differences, where it has actually been about land, gold, oil or fortune. Unfortunately religion is mostly made up by man, not by God. The Bible teach us to love one another and live in peace with one another.


Religion breeds more hate and war then anything in my opinion...Grizz


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmRcqYZLx8


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPh_9sRJycI


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

I am heading to a ******* pig roast for my best friends 30th b day,we will make racial slurs,make fun of the middle east and drink lots of beer and whiskey and we are all different religions with one thing in common,we all hate the middle east...........


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## Deserthuntr (Nov 23, 2008)

Grizz, what you say is true, no one can argue about the wars of religion. I was in a church for 18 years that taught me "Christian Religion". But it was not totally Bible-based. Many rules were made up by man to suit him. Many rules were even contradicting the Bible. I had similar views that you have about religion. But when I was about 26 years old I saw a piece of who God really is and I am still convinced that the best thing in life you can have is a relationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ. And to be in a church that teaches the Bible, not religion made up by man. And I think that many people believe this. We don't want to fight and kill anyone, we only want to live in piece with those around us as far as we possibly can, living the way Jesus would have wanted us to.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Donjr721 said:


> I realize this, definitely more way back, we will see it happening more. No research needed here.


...then why did you write your post. It was written in a fashion which seemed to state that it was on the rise. are you trying to say it hit a high back then, low sometime previous and now on the uptrend? Highly doubtful I'd say it's averaging out to be less.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

They did a poll on AT a couple months ago on if people are religious. Turns out the AT community is 50/50 and thread was moved to another forum. With any 50/50 split you will get colorful discussion. People seemed surprised the hunting world is less religious than they thought. Seemed about right to me.


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## Securis (Aug 17, 2014)

I'm fine with any verse on my bow that teaches me something. I don't care what religion it comes from, there's always something to learn from them all. Most people who say that all Muslims are terrorists or that the Quran promotes violence has obviously forgotten all the violent deaths that God inflicted in the Bible and that Hitler was also a Christian (albeit not a very good one).

Would it be so bad to have the words "peace be upon you" inscribed on your products? Because that is what "Assalamualaikum" means.

For the record, i'm neither Christian nor Muslim. But i do find valuable teachings within ALL religions. And here's a nice verse for all of you,

“You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by your anger.” - Buddha


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Absolutely agree securis.


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## Securis (Aug 17, 2014)

I think this song is fitting...


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## Donjr721 (Mar 25, 2013)

Chopayne said:


> ...then why did you write your post. It was written in a fashion which seemed to state that it was on the rise. are you trying to say it hit a high back then, low sometime previous and now on the uptrend? Highly doubtful I'd say it's averaging out to be less.


My point is that those of us who are Christian, should be Christians all of the time and not just on Sundays. I honestly do think that we will see a rise in persecution. Just my beliefs. No offense intended.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Donjr721 said:


> My point is that those of us who are Christian, should be Christians all of the time and not just on Sundays. I honestly do think that we will see a rise in persecution. Just my beliefs. No offense intended.


I absolutely agree, thank you.


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## kwfarmnranch (Sep 24, 2012)

Donjr721 said:


> My point is that those of us who are Christian, should be Christians all of the time and not just on Sundays. I honestly do think that we will see a rise in persecution. Just my beliefs. No offense intended.


Amen ! The bible tells us this very thing.


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## Snakum (Oct 8, 2013)

freebird134 said:


> I suppose Buddhists wouldn't get into hunting


This one does.


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## Snakum (Oct 8, 2013)

Jebus said:


> ...


Praise Jeebus!!!





(You actually spelled it wrong.  )


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## Snakum (Oct 8, 2013)

grytvikken said:


> Really people there is no God .... there is just people who want to believe there is a God.


God is just Santa Claus for adults, imho. But I respect everyone's right to believe whatever they want. Gave four years of my life to defend that right, in fact, among others. And I have a bit of heartburn with the fact that white Christians can be made fun of everywhere nowadays, while everyone else is protected. Not cool, imho.

What I do find hilarious is how the Christians treat nonbelievers and each other (AT is a perfect example) despite the New Testament directives that superseded the Old Testament. Most are Christian in name only, outside of a few hours per week. I find it interesting.


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## SouthShoreRat (Mar 4, 2007)

Garceau said:


> How is the Government and the media attacking Christian faith?
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


I do not and wont into a debate about this but wanted to provide you some evidence since you asked. Here are things that the president has done during his time in the white house. The forum will not allow me to post the entire list so I will put it up in two or three posts


1. Acts of hostility toward people of Biblical faith:

December 2009-Present - The annual White House Christmas cards, rather than focusing on Christmas or faith, instead highlight things such as the family dogs. And the White House Christmas tree ornaments include figures such as Mao Tse-Tung and a drag queen. [1]

June 2013 – The Obama Department of Justice defunds a Young Marines chapter in Louisiana because their oath mentioned God, and another youth program because it permits a voluntary student-led prayer. [2]

February 2013 – The Obama Administration announces that the rights of religious conscience for individuals will not be protected under the Affordable Care Act. [3]

January 2013 – Pastor Louie Giglio is pressured to remove himself from praying at the inauguration after it is discovered he once preached a sermon supporting the Biblical definition of marriage. [4]

February 2012 – The Obama administration forgives student loans in exchange for public service, but announces it will no longer forgive student loans if the public service is related to religion. [5]

January 2012 – The Obama administration argues that the First Amendment provides no protection for churches and synagogues in hiring their pastors and rabbis. [6]

December 2011 – The Obama administration denigrates other countries' religious beliefs as an obstacle to radical homosexual rights. [7]

November 2011 – President Obama opposes inclusion of President Franklin Roosevelt’s famous D-Day Prayer in the WWII Memorial. [8]

November 2011 – Unlike previous presidents, Obama studiously avoids any religious references in his Thanksgiving speech. [9]

August 2011 – The Obama administration releases its new health care rules that override religious conscience protections for medical workers in the areas of abortion and contraception. [10]

April 2011 – For the first time in American history, Obama urges passage of a non-discrimination law that does not contain hiring protections for religious groups, forcing religious organizations to hire according to federal mandates without regard to the dictates of their own faith, thus eliminating conscience protection in hiring. [11]

February 2011 – Although he filled posts in the State Department, for more than two years Obama did not fill the post of religious freedom ambassador, an official that works against religious persecution across the world; he filled it only after heavy pressure from the public and from Congress. [12]

January 2011 – After a federal law was passed to transfer a WWI Memorial in the Mojave Desert to private ownership, the U. S. Supreme Court ruled that the cross in the memorial could continue to stand, but the Obama administration refused to allow the land to be transferred as required by law, and refused to allow the cross to be re-erected as ordered by the Court. [13]

November 2010 – Obama misquotes the National Motto, saying it is “E pluribus unum” rather than “In God We Trust” as established by federal law. [14]

October 19, 2010 – Obama begins deliberately omitting the phrase about “the Creator” when quoting the Declaration of Independence – an omission he has made on no less than seven occasions. [15]

May 2009 – Obama declines to host services for the National Prayer Day (a day established by federal law) at the White House. [16]

April 2009 – When speaking at Georgetown University, Obama orders that a monogram symbolizing Jesus' name be covered when he is making his speech. [17]

April 2009 – In a deliberate act of disrespect, Obama nominated three pro-abortion ambassadors to the Vatican; of course, the pro-life Vatican rejected all three. [18]

February 2009 – Obama announces plans to revoke conscience protection for health workers who refuse to participate in medical activities that go against their beliefs, and fully implements the plan in February 2011. [19]

April 2008 – Obama speaks disrespectfully of Christians, saying they “cling to guns or religion” and have an “antipathy to people who aren't like them.” [20]


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## SouthShoreRat (Mar 4, 2007)

2. Acts of hostility from the Obama-led military toward people of Biblical faith:

June 2014 - Official U. S. government personnel, both civilian and military, in Bahrain (a small Arabic nation near Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran) must wear clothing that facilitates the religious observance of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.​ [21]

March 2014 - ​Maxell Air Force Base suddenly bans Gideons from handing out Bibles to willing recruits, a practice that had been occurring for years previously. [22]

December 2013 - A naval facility required that two nativity scenes -- scenes depicting the event that caused Christmas to be declared a national federal holiday -- be removed from the base dining hall and be confined to the base chapel, thus disallowing the open public acknowledgment of this national federal holiday. [23]

December 2013 - An Air Force base that allowed various public displays ordered the removal of one simply because it contained religious content. [24]

October 2013 – A counter-intelligence briefing at Fort Hood tells soldiers that evangelical Christians are a threat to Americans and that for a soldier to donate to such a group “was punishable under military regulations.” [25]

October 2013 – Catholic priests hired to serve as military chaplains are prohibited from performing Mass services at base chapels during the government financial shutdown. When they offered to freely do Mass for soldiers, without regard to whether or not the chaplains were receiving pay, they are still denied permission to do so. [26]

October 2013 - The Air Force Academy, in response to a complaint from Mikey Weinstein's Military Religious Freedom Foundation, makes "so help me God" optional in cadets' honor oath. [27]

August 2013 - A Department of Defense military training manual teaches soldiers that people who talk about "individual liberties, states' rights, and how to make the world a better place" are "extremists." It also lists the Founding Fathers -- those "colonists who sought to free themselves from British rule" -- as examples of those involved in "extremist ideologies and movements." [28]

August 2013 - A Senior Master Sergeant was removed from his position and reassigned because he told his openly lesbian squadron commander that she should not punish a staff sergeant who expressed his views in favor of traditional marriage. [29]

August 2013 - The military does not provide heterosexual couples specific paid leave to travel to a state just for the purpose of being married, but it did extend these benefits to homosexual couples who want to marry, thus giving them preferential treatment not available to heterosexuals. [30]

August 2013 - The Air Force, in the midst of having launched a series of attacks against those expressing traditional religious or moral views, invited a drag queen group to perform at a base. [31]

July 2013 - When an Air Force sergeant with years of military service questioned a same-sex marriage ceremony performed at the Air Force Academy's chapel, he received a letter of reprimand telling him that if he disagreed, he needed to get out of the military. His current six-year reenlistment was then reduced to only one-year, with the notification that he "be prepared to retire at the end of this year." [32]

July 2013 - An Air Force chaplain who posted a website article on the importance of faith and the origin of the phrase "There are no atheists in foxholes" was officially ordered to remove his post because some were offended by the use of that famous World War II phrase. [33]

June 2013 - The U. S. Air Force, in consultation with the Pentagon, removed an inspirational painting that for years has been hanging at Mountain Home Air Force Base because its title was "Blessed Are The Peacemakers" -- a phrase from Matthew 5:9 in the Bible. [34]

June 2013 – The Obama administration “strongly objects” to a Defense Authorization amendment to protect the constitutionally-guaranteed religious rights of soldiers and chaplains, claiming that it would have an “adverse effect on good order, discipline, morale, and mission accomplishment.” [35]

June 2013 – At a joint base in New Jersey, a video was made, based on a Super Bowl commercial, to honor First Sergeants. It stated: “On the eighth day, God looked down on His creation and said, ‘I need someone who will take care of the Airmen.’ So God created a First Sergeant.” Because the video mentioned the word “God,” the Air Force required that it be taken down. [36]

June 2013 – An Army Master Sergeant is reprimanded, threatened with judicial action, and given a bad efficiency report, being told he was “no longer a team player,” because he voiced his support of traditional marriage at his own promotion party. [37]

May 2013 - The Pentagon announces that "Air Force members are free to express their personal religious beliefs as long as it does not make others uncomfortable. "Proselytizing (inducing someone to convert to one's faith) goes over that line," [38] affirming if a sharing of faith makes someone feel uncomfortable that it could be a court-marital offense [39] -- the military equivalent of a civil felony.

May 2013 - An Air Force officer was actually made to remove a personal Bible from his own desk because it "might" appear that he was condoning the particular religion to which he belonged. [40]

April 2013 – Officials briefing U.S. Army soldiers placed "Evangelical Christianity" and "Catholicism" in a list that also included Al-Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas as examples of "religious extremism." [41]

April 2013 – The U.S. Army directs troops to scratch off and paint over tiny Scripture verse references that for decades had been forged into weapon scopes. [42]

April 2013 - The Air Force creates a "religious tolerance" policy but consults only a militant atheist group to do so -- a group whose leader has described military personnel who are religious as 'spiritual rapists' and 'human monsters' [43] and who also says that soldiers who proselytize are guilty of treason and sedition and should be punished to hold back a "tidal wave of fundamentalists." [44]

January 2013 – President Obama announced his opposition to a provision in the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act protecting the rights of conscience for military chaplains. [45]

June 2012 – Bibles for the American military have been printed in every conflict since the American Revolution, but the Obama Administration revokes the long-standing U. S. policy of allowing military service emblems to be placed on those military Bibles. [46]

May 2012 – The Obama administration opposed legislation to protect the rights of conscience for military chaplains who do not wish to perform same-sex marriages in violation of their strongly-held religious beliefs. [47]

April 2012 – A checklist for Air Force Inns will no longer include ensuring that a Bible is available in rooms for those who want to use them. [48]

February 2012 – The U. S. Military Academy at West Point disinvites three star Army general and decorated war hero Lieutenant General William G. (“Jerry”) Boykin (retired) from speaking at an event because he is an outspoken Christian. [49]

February 2012 – The Air Force removes “God” from the patch of Rapid Capabilities Office (the word on the patch was in Latin: Dei). [50]

February 2012 – The Army ordered Catholic chaplains not to read a letter to parishioners that their archbishop asked them to read. [51]

November 2011 – The Air Force Academy rescinds support for Operation Christmas Child, a program to send holiday gifts to impoverished children across the world, because the program is run by a Christian charity. [52]

November 2011 – President Obama opposes inclusion of President Franklin Roosevelt’s famous D-Day Prayer in the WWII Memorial. [53]

November 2011 – Even while restricting and disapprobating Christian religious expressions, the Air Force Academy pays $80,000 to add a Stonehenge-like worship center for pagans, druids, witches and Wiccans at the Air Force Academy. [54]

September 2011 – Air Force Chief of Staff prohibits commanders from notifying airmen of programs and services available to them from chaplains. [55]

September 2011 – The Army issues guidelines for Walter Reed Medical Center stipulating that “No religious items (i.e. Bibles, reading materials and/or facts) are allowed to be given away or used during a visit.” [56]

August 2011 – The Air Force stops teaching the Just War theory to officers in California because the course is taught by chaplains and is based on a philosophy introduced by St. Augustine in the third century AD – a theory long taught by civilized nations across the world (except now, America). [57]

June 2011 – The Department of Veterans Affairs forbids references to God and Jesus during burial ceremonies at Houston National Cemetery. [58]

January 2010 – Because of "concerns" raised by the Department of Defense, tiny Bible verse references that had appeared for decades on scopes and gunsights were removed. [59]


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## SouthShoreRat (Mar 4, 2007)

3. Acts of hostility toward Biblical values:

March 2014 - The Obama administration seeks funding for every type of sex-education -- except that which reflects traditional moral values. [60]

August 2013 - Non-profit charitable hospitals, especially faith-based ones, will face large fines or lose their tax-exempt status if they don't comply with new strangling paperwork requirements related to giving free treatment to poor clients who do not have Obamacare insurance coverage. [61] Ironically, the first hospital in America was founded as a charitable institution in 1751 by Benjamin Franklin, and its logo was the Good Samaritan, with Luke 10:35 inscribed below him: "Take care of him, and I will repay thee," being designed specifically to offer free medical care to the poor. [62] Benjamin Franklin's hospital would likely be fined unless he placed more resources and funds into paperwork rather than helping the poor under the new faith-hostile policy of the Obama administration.

August 2013 - USAID, a federal government agency, shut down a conference in South Korea the night before it was scheduled to take place because some of the presentations were not pro-abortion but instead presented information on abortion complications, including the problems of "preterm births, mental health issues, and maternal mortality" among women giving birth who had previous abortions. [63]

June 2013 – The Obama Administration finalizes requirements that under the Obamacare insurance program, employers must make available abortion-causing drugs, regardless of the religious conscience objections of many employers and even despite the directive of several federal courts to protect the religious conscience of employers. [64]

April 2013 – The United States Agency for Internal Development (USAID), an official foreign policy agency of the U.S. government, begins a program to train homosexual activists in various countries around the world to overturn traditional marriage and anti-sodomy laws, targeting first those countries with strong Catholic influences, including Ecuador, Honduras, and Guatemala. [65]

December 2012 – Despite having campaigned to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, President Obama once again suspends the provisions of the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 which requires the United States to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and to move the American Embassy there. [66]

July 2012 - The Pentagon, for the first time, allows service members to wear their uniforms while marching in a parade - specifically, a gay pride parade in San Diego. [67]

October 2011 – The Obama administration eliminates federal grants to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops for their extensive programs that aid victims of human trafficking because the Catholic Church is anti-abortion. [68]

September 2011 – The Pentagon directs that military chaplains may perform same-sex marriages at military facilities in violation of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. [69]

July 2011 – Obama allows homosexuals to serve openly in the military, reversing a policy originally instituted by George Washington in March 1778. [70]

March 2011 – The Obama administration refuses to investigate videos showing Planned Parenthood helping alleged sex traffickers get abortions for victimized underage girls. [71]

February 2011 – Obama directs the Justice Department to stop defending the federal Defense of Marriage Act. [72]

September 2010 – The Obama administration tells researchers to ignore a judge’s decision striking down federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. [73]

August 2010 – The Obama administration Cuts funding for 176 abstinence education programs. [74]

July 2010 – The Obama administration uses federal funds in violation of federal law to get Kenya to change its constitution to include abortion. [75]

September 16, 2009 – The Obama administration appoints as EEOC Commissioner Chai Feldblum, who asserts that society should “not tolerate” any “private beliefs,” including religious beliefs, if they may negatively affect homosexual “equality.” [76]

July 2009 – The Obama administration illegally extends federal benefits to same-sex partners of Foreign Service and Executive Branch employees, in direction violation of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. [77]

May 2009 – The White House budget eliminates all funding for abstinence-only education and replaces it with “comprehensive” sexual education, repeatedly proven to increase teen pregnancies and abortions. [78] He continues the deletion in subsequent budgets. [79]

May 2009 – Obama officials assemble a terrorism dictionary calling pro-life advocates violent and charging that they use racism in their “criminal” activities. [80]

March 2009 – The Obama administration shut out pro-life groups from attending a White House-sponsored health care summit. [81]

March 2009 – Obama orders taxpayer funding of embryonic stem cell research. [82]

March 2009 – Obama gave $50 million for the UNFPA, the UN population agency that promotes abortion and works closely with Chinese population control officials who use forced abortions and involuntary sterilizations. [83]

January 2009 – Obama lifts restrictions on U.S. government funding for groups that provide abortion services or counseling abroad, forcing taxpayers to fund pro-abortion groups that either promote or perform abortions in other nations. [84]

January 2009 – President Obama’s nominee for deputy secretary of state asserts that American taxpayers are required to pay for abortions and that limits on abortion funding are unconstitutional. [85]

4. Acts of preferentialism for Islam:

February 2012 – The Obama administration makes effulgent apologies for Korans being burned by the U. S. military, [86] but when Bibles were burned by the military, numerous reasons were offered why it was the right thing to do. [87]

October 2011 – Obama’s Muslim advisers block Middle Eastern Christians’ access to the White House. [88]

August 2010 – Obama speaks with great praise of Islam and condescendingly of Christianity. [89]

August 2010 – Obama went to great lengths to speak out on multiple occasions on behalf of building an Islamic mosque at Ground Zero, while at the same time he was silent about a Christian church being denied permission to rebuild at that location. [90]

April 2010 – Christian leader Franklin Graham is dis-invited from the Pentagon’s National Day of Prayer Event because of complaints from the Muslim community. [91]

April 2010 – The Obama administration requires rewriting of government documents and a change in administration vocabulary to remove terms that are deemed offensive to Muslims, including jihad, jihadists, terrorists, radical Islamic, etc. [92]

May 2009 – While Obama does not host any National Day of Prayer event at the White House, he does host White House Iftar dinners in honor of Ramadan. [93]

2010 – While every White House traditionally issues hundreds of official proclamations and statements on numerous occasions, this White House avoids traditional Biblical holidays and events but regularly recognizes major Muslim holidays, as evidenced by its 2010 statements on Ramadan, Eid-ul-Fitr, Hajj, and Eid-ul-Adha. [94]

Many of these actions are literally unprecedented – this is the first time they have happened in four centuries of American history. The hostility of President Obama toward Biblical faith and values is without equal from any previous American president.


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

SouthShoreRat said:


> 3. Acts of hostility toward Biblical values:
> 
> Many of these actions are literally unprecedented – this is the first time they have happened in four centuries of American history. The hostility of President Obama toward Biblical faith and values is without equal from any previous American president.


Guess what?
It is 2014
Get with the program


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

If you only had the choice of being ruled by Christians or Muslims which would you chose? Oh that could never happen right.

If there is not a creator how did things come into existence?

How did the creator create itself?

Until I can know the answers to these question I will have faith that there is a creator and that Jesus is the son of God.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

SouthShoreRat said:


> 3. Acts of hostility toward Biblical values:
> 
> March 2014 - The Obama administration seeks funding for every type of sex-education -- except that which reflects traditional moral values. [60]
> 
> ...


Prime example..and news for you,the world/religion does not revolve around just the U.S.A..Who cares about what Obama says or thinks,there is a whole world not just a few countries.War is destroying man kind and is being used by a few countries along with religion as a scapegoat..........It just aint the middle east that are war mongrels...I dont care what anybody thinks on this forum any longer,i am for 100% peace and i am not for war any longer....Not when it' for power and oil.....


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

jim p said:


> If you only had the choice of being ruled by Christians or Muslims which would you chose? Oh that could never happen right.
> 
> If there is not a creator how did things come into existence?
> 
> ...


So you admit your faith is based on ignorance

Anyways, gods made sense when we lived in caves and did not know how to read and write.
We know better now.
Enough life wasted talking about other people's imaginary friends


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

jim p said:


> If you only had the choice of being ruled by Christians or Muslims which would you chose? Oh that could never happen right.
> 
> If there is not a creator how did things come into existence?
> 
> ...


Dude. Who was the guy in the crusades who didn't slaughter everyone in Jerusalem? Who was the guy who was the originator of the rights of man? Get real and out of your cave. You're making hunters and Christians look like ****ing idiots. What you're seeing are extreme muslims, travel the world and read some literature.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Chopayne said:


> Dude. Who was the guy in the crusades who didn't slaughter everyone in Jerusalem? Who was the guy who was the originator of the rights of man? Get real and out of your cave. You're making hunters and Christians look like ****ing idiots. What you're seeing are extreme muslims, travel the world and read some literature.


Yes.


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> I am a Catholic,i went to a Catholic school from 4 years old until i was 14 years old.I am sick of religion and all the killing and war it starts.I am no bible thumper or no atheist.I am just not a follower of any religion any longer,people who want to preach it down others throats and then turn around and go to war against others who believe in some other religion has made we not want to have anything to do with it...Grizz


 I understand exactly where you are coming from. If someone forced something down my throat, I too would tell them to take a long walk off a short pier.

Any religion is a sad, lonely affair. "Religion" teaches us to try being better people and trying to attain something we as flawed people can never attain on our own accord. I see people like you burnt over "religion". I hated " religion" too and mocked, flamed and made fun of those bible thumpers. That's why I responded "I was like you".

In all of this I've (we as Christians) have missed the boat. We, not God, have made our own " religion" out of what it really is. We've made the scriptures fit our feelings and beliefs. Not good and is a "religion". Empty and dead.

Scripture says other wise. Rom 8. We were never called to be " religious", only to accept a free gift, John 3:16.

I was not trying to offend you I hope you know! I've always liked you and enjoy your posts.





GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> I am a Catholic,i went to a Catholic school from 4 years old until i was 14 years old.I am sick of religion and all the killing and war it starts.I am no bible thumper or no atheist.I am just not a follower of any religion any longer,people who want to preach it down others throats and then turn around and go to war against others who believe in some other religion has made we not want to have anything to do with it...Grizz


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

dougedwards said:


> There is one thing for sure. It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate a man from his awareness that he only exists by the grace of God.
> 
> Putting a printed bible verse on a box or directly on the product may or may not enhance sales of that product but it does indicate that the company or the man that is responsible for the printing is aware that this life is about more than the products that we can produce.
> 
> ...


Amen.


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

God is awesome and without god i'm nothing. Those who don't know god will never understand. I could say that i love god and that i chose him but the fact remains that he loves me and he chose me. Why? Because he knows my heart and he knows my true name.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Reco111 said:


> God is awesome and without god i'm nothing. Those who don't know god will never understand. I could say that i love god and that i chose him but the fact remains that he loves me and he chose me. Why? Because he knows my heart and he knows my true name.


Many people know God, the problem is with those that think if you are not Christian you cannot know God, that is false.


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## Reco111 (Dec 16, 2011)

COArrow said:


> Many people know God, the problem is with those that think if you are not Christian you cannot know God, that is false.



I believe I have a Just God. There is one way and one way only. I do not worship some questionable "supreme being" and we are not all going to the same place. Though I pray we will.


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## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

I think everyone needs to ask themselves a simple question, What is Christianity?
It starts with the word Christ, If you do not believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, Then why do you celebrate Christmas, Why do you celebrate Easter?
Both valid questions you have to answer them for yourselves.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

carlielos said:


> I think everyone needs to ask themselves a simple question, What is Christianity?
> It starts with the word Christ, If you do not believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, Then why do you celebrate Christmas, Why do you celebrate Easter?
> Both valid questions you have to answer them for yourselves.


The majority of the world does not, nor do they celebrate those holidays. It is not the oldest, nor the largest religion or belief regardless of the missionizing.


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## toddt (May 14, 2011)

Actually I am glad this thread came up. The reason being, I too felt like if a company added a bible verse or a fish to a product, they were trying to smooze the Christian, so after seeing some less than stellar thoughts on the subject, I too became skeptical, to some degree, for any product, company, or whatever, that did add something that connected them to Christianity. However, after this thread, I have come to fully realize that by placing any connection to Jesus on a product, they are fully aware that they will open up lots of criticism of sorts, from not only the atheists, but fellow Christians as well. I mean, I am Christian, but thought it was simply a ploy to play on the mindset of other Christians, so I actually placed them lower on the choice list, opposite of what would have been their intent. But now that I realize that these companies, are fully aware that taking such action will earn more scrutiny, maybe they are simply trying to spread the gospel. In which case, I will definitely try to buy from Christian products whenever possible.

Then, maybe they new that I would scrutinize, then accept, then,,,,,, maybe I just think too much. 

I also realize this isn't church, nor a religious site, BUT, for those who do not believe in Jesus. Just do a small amount of research, no matter what religion you happen to belong, or even if you happen to be atheist - in which case, simply refer to history, the entire world, agrees that Jesus was real, they also agree he was a great teacher, philosopher, etc. The ONLY point the rest of the world deviates, is in the resurrection, and the belief that Jesus is the son of the ONE true GOD. But I feel that if the bible was accurate up to that point, why would it deviate afterward. This isn't something to fight about, rather something to think about. 

Good luck to everyone.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

toddt said:


> Actually I am glad this thread came up. The reason being, I too felt like if a company added a bible verse or a fish to a product, they were trying to smooze the Christian, so after seeing some less than stellar thoughts on the subject, I too became skeptical, to some degree, for any product, company, or whatever, that did add something that connected them to Christianity. However, after this thread, I have come to fully realize that by placing any connection to Jesus on a product, they are fully aware that they will open up lots of criticism of sorts, from not only the atheists, but fellow Christians as well. I mean, I am Christian, but thought it was simply a ploy to play on the mindset of other Christians, so I actually placed them lower on the choice list, opposite of what would have been their intent. But now that I realize that these companies, are fully aware that taking such action will earn more scrutiny, maybe they are simply trying to spread the gospel. In which case, I will definitely try to buy from Christian products whenever possible.
> 
> Then, maybe they new that I would scrutinize, then accept, then,,,,,, maybe I just think too much.
> 
> ...


The entire world agrees?


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

COArrow said:


> The majority of the world does not, nor do they celebrate those holidays. It is not the oldest, nor the largest religion or belief regardless of the missionizing.


Wait, so the Bible isn't the most printed book in the history of the world, including the book translated in the most languages?


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

toddt said:


> the entire world, agrees that Jesus was real, they also agree he was a great teacher, philosopher, etc. The ONLY point the rest of the world deviates, is in the resurrection, and the belief that Jesus is the son of the ONE true GOD. But I feel that if the bible was accurate up to that point, why would it deviate afterward. This isn't something to fight about, rather something to think about.





SHPoet said:


> The entire world agrees?


Yeah, I'm not sure the whole world agrees on any of that. I definitely don't.


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## Whiplash07 (Jun 30, 2014)

As a proud Christian I absolutely wouldn't mind if my bow came with a scripture verse


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## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

The enemy is pride, or ego, those who relish such things, always trying to put themselves above others, will never agree with Christianity because that means they would have to relinquish all of that and admit that everything they have every skill every ability is God given, because their own pride and ego won't allow that therefore they cannot believe.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

The whole world agrees? Have you step foot outside the us? There are hindis sikhs shintos Buddhists and whatever the hell Chinese usually are. Thats over 3 billion people ive named. In reality islam is the only one that isn't a Christian faith that recognizes jesus as a legitimate prophet. Judaism doesn't. Seriously...Some of you guys need to get out of your cave. Rest of the world, really?


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Whiplash07 said:


> As a proud Christian I absolutely wouldn't mind if my bow came with a scripture verse


As a mostly non believer. i could give a rats ass what it said on the side as long as it didn't support terrorism. It could have a verse from islam or whatever language. People from both sides make absolutely way too big of a deal about it.


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## Whiplash07 (Jun 30, 2014)

Chopayne said:


> As a mostly non believer. i could give a rats ass what it said on the side as long as it didn't support terrorism. It could have a verse from islam or whatever language. People from both sides make absolutely way too big of a deal about it.


Not making a big deal about it...it would make me proud that someone is willing to do that. Too many ppl will denounce their faith cuz of what they think other ppl will say.


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## Deserthuntr (Nov 23, 2008)

Chopayne said:


> Dude. Who was the guy in the crusades who didn't slaughter everyone in Jerusalem? Who was the guy who was the originator of the rights of man? Get real and out of your cave. You're making hunters and Christians look like ****ing idiots. What you're seeing are extreme muslims, travel the world and read some literature.


Dude, you forgot to call him stereotype! Seriously? It seems that you think that you are a god, cause everyone who believes in God makes hunters, archers and Christians look like *****idiots. And everyone who is a Christian is a cave dweller. So you think we are idiots? Well sir, you are a hypocrite. Christians are bad, idiots etc. according to you, but their bows are good enough to buy and shoot with? You moan about our faith, but still our products are just dandy?

I have a PhD in science, I have traveled and seen many cultures and religions. I have studied science for many years. And also have studied the Bible. And through both, I believe with no doubt that There Is A God. And one day you will die, and you will have to answer to Him. But lucky for you He is much more forgiving and loving than any human will ever be.

So you can call us whatever you like, but remember this.

This is where I sign off on this thread, no good can come of it.


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

Freedom of speech. Just remember there are two sides to freedom of speech. Those who agree those who disagree


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## Jebus (Oct 1, 2014)

Deserthuntr said:


> I have a PhD in science, I have traveled and seen many cultures and religions. I have studied science for many years. And also have studied the Bible. And through both, I believe with no doubt that There Is A God. And one day you will die, and you will have to answer to Him. But lucky for you He is much more forgiving and loving than any human will ever be.
> 
> So you can call us whatever you like, but remember this.
> 
> This is where I sign off on this thread, no good can come of it.


A phd in science? What does that matter? What kind of "science"? I have a phd in science too. If you studied biology and geology, you'd be aware that there Are many many discrepancies between the bible and reality.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Whiplash07 said:


> Not making a big deal about it...it would make me proud that someone is willing to do that. Too many ppl will denounce their faith cuz of what they think other ppl will say.


Oh no, I was just going along with your thing. Saying that it doesn't bother me one bit that Christian companies put stuff on their products, something many people have a product. Sorry wasn't attacking you.



Deserthuntr said:


> Dude, you forgot to call him stereotype! Seriously? It seems that you think that you are a god, cause everyone who believes in God makes hunters, archers and Christians look like *****idiots. And everyone who is a Christian is a cave dweller. So you think we are idiots? Well sir, you are a hypocrite. Christians are bad, idiots etc. according to you, but their bows are good enough to buy and shoot with? You moan about our faith, but still our products are just dandy?
> 
> I have a PhD in science, I have traveled and seen many cultures and religions. I have studied science for many years. And also have studied the Bible. And through both, I believe with no doubt that There Is A God. And one day you will die, and you will have to answer to Him. But lucky for you He is much more forgiving and loving than any human will ever be.
> 
> ...


"Dude, you forgot to call him stereotype!" I'm not quite sure what this means...i'm also not quite sure how one's religion is correlated to the quality of an item they produce. Seems like you need to relax and read the bible.

Ph.D in Science eh, which area of science?

I'm also not quite sure where you misinterpreted basically everything I wrote. I never said Christians or Hunters are people who lived in caves, I said some of the people who write on here are making it seem like they live in caves, which extrapolated makes all Christian Hunters look stupid and living in caves. Never once did I moan about your faith? And I don't buy Bowtech, I buy PSE...not that it matters because I wouldn't make my decision based on the faith of the organization.

As for loving God, not quite sure, have you read the OT where he just killed and banished people?

For a person with a Ph.D in some field of science which you never named, you're quite bad at comprehension. I also never denounced God, just in my current state I don't really believe.


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## shaffett (Nov 14, 2009)

.


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## Commander Cody (Nov 24, 2006)

mistype


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## Commander Cody (Nov 24, 2006)

freebird134 said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure the whole world agrees on any of that. I definitely don't.


All one has to do is Google Josephus' and Tacitus' (non-biased, non-Christian historians) comments regarding the historical existence of Jesus. Not only were they not biased, but they actually put themselves in peril with the Roman govt for writing the things they did regarding Him.


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## MAD 6 (Nov 8, 2015)

optimal_max said:


> Wait, so the Bible isn't the most printed book in the history of the world, including the book translated in the most languages?


The majority of the world are not Christian, just the Bible is the most printed book in history doesn't mean it's the most popular - I don't think the 1.6 billion Indians or 1.4 billion Chinese are up on theyre bible studies, it only means the people who print the Bible have more money to print the book, nothing else.
I know plenty of Jews, Hindus and Buddists who celebrate Christmas- it is a commercial holiday for most people today? Lost its religious meaning a long time ago.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

jebus said:


> a phd in science? What does that matter? What kind of "science"? I have a phd in science too. If you studied biology and geology, you'd be aware that there are many many discrepancies between the bible and reality.


bingo!!!!


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## hoenshell (Sep 30, 2011)

Jebus said:


> A phd in science? What does that matter? What kind of "science"? I have a phd in science too. If you studied biology and geology, you'd be aware that there Are many many discrepancies between the bible and reality.



https://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/scientificfactsintheBible.shtml


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## Mallardbreath (Dec 7, 2007)

Jebus said:


> A phd in science? What does that matter? What kind of "science"? I have a phd in science too. If you studied biology and geology, you'd be aware that there Are many many discrepancies between the bible and reality.


The fossil record is full of discrepancies. In fact there is no "real" fossil record.


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## Macdoc18 (Dec 28, 2012)

detroit9mm said:


> In today's PC climate I applaud any company that is willing to publicly acknowledge their faith in Christ. I do not care how anyone tries to spin it, this country was founded and built on Christian principles and values. It is our heritage, no matter hw people may try to stamp that out. I'm a Christian but I don't jam it down anyones throat. Some may say it's a marketing ploy b ut in today's environment I think it takes a boldness to display any form of faith in advertising. It's one of the reasons I shoot a Diamond with a QAD rest.


Better look again buddy. i find nothing about charity, mercy, forgiveness, meekness or chastity in the constitution or bill of rights. 
Fake news


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## Redthecanuck (Jan 8, 2017)

I am an Atheist, and I do not mind if they do that at all. It's a private company, and if they want to promote their faith, they can. 

That being said, don't be fooled. It's not about courage, and is a clear business decision. My girlfriend works in public relations for big companies, and you can be very sure it was a calculated move to drive up sales in a certain market. 

If it was a small company on the other hand, it probably was meant with true sincerity but the larger companies have many people decisions like that go through, and a large number are not Christians. So you can be sure it was a business move. Which, if I was a Christian, would find pretty disgusting.


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## Kyarcher95 (Jul 6, 2016)

There is only one God, the one that created this universe. The Bible is the inspired word of God, the Bible has been in the world for ages and will continue to be. Jesus Christ is the son of God, he lived on this earth for some 33 yrs. and died on the cross for our sins, that if we put our faith and trust in him and asked for forgiveness, we would be saved and that's the only way to enter into the kindom of God, so don't confuse Christianity with religion.


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## osuhunter2011 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jesus Christ. The solid rock on which I stand. The only way! Jesus said "I AM the way, the truth and the life!" Glory be to God for these fine companies being bold in this day and age. I encourage ALL of you to seek Christ in ALL that you do! Your walk with God is FAR more important than ANY bow you'll ever own or tournaments you'll ever shoot. That is all worldy and temporary, but Heaven is eternal! Praying for everyone here tonight! May those of you who know Christ grow in your faith and be bold, and those who do not know Jesus come under conviction and surrender your heart and souls to the ONE AND ONLY Eternal Father!


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## billp1044 (Feb 23, 2014)

Kyarcher95 said:


> There is only one God, the one that created this universe. The Bible is the inspired word of God, the Bible has been in the world for ages and will continue to be. Jesus Christ is the son of God, he lived on this earth for some 33 yrs. and died on the cross for our sins, that if we put our faith and trust in him and asked for forgiveness, we would be saved and that's the only way to enter into the kindom of God, so don't confuse Christianity with religion.


Amen to both of you; I'm a believer myself and to many people get confused on the difference between Christianity and religion


osuhunter2011 said:


> Jesus Christ. The solid rock on which I stand. The only way! Jesus said "I AM the way, the truth and the life!" Glory be to God for these fine companies being bold in this day and age. I encourage ALL of you to seek Christ in ALL that you do! Your walk with God is FAR more important than ANY bow you'll ever own or tournaments you'll ever shoot. That is all worldy and temporary, but Heaven is eternal! Praying for everyone here tonight! May those of you who know Christ grow in your faith and be bold, and those who do not know Jesus come under conviction and surrender your heart and souls to the ONE AND ONLY Eternal Father!



Sent from my XT1528


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