# My Border Covert Hunter Experience (so far)



## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Thoughts on the Covert Hunter....

First off, the thing is _beautiful._ Great craftsmanship. Real art.

*Particular customizations. * Lots of custom bowyers around, most of them make really good bows. I've bought 3 custom Predator recurves, and I think they're all pretty solid conventional designs, with pretty good performance considering standard limb profile. My 70# recurve hurls a 560 grain arrow at 198 fps with a 18 strand Fast Flight Plus Flemish Twist string. My 54# 'Velocity' riser throws a 432 grain arrow at 200-201 fps with a 20 strand 8190. My 59# recurve, throwing 600 grain wooden arrows is one of the quietest things I've ever heard. Custom? I got to select the woods in the riser laminations, and I got to ask for a very specific draw weight. With my velocity riser, between JB weld, nuts, bolts, washers, and a purple erasers, a Dremel tool, and spray paint, I was able to get the bow to be mostly what I wanted. I did have the option to get limbs with a carbon foam core, which Ron Pittsley actually suggested I forget, since as he pointed out, there's still fiberglass sandwiching it, and in his opinion, it wasn't worth it. I've got to say, I love to hear honesty like that. They come standard with bow quiver mounts, and you can also get ATA sight inserts and stabilizer bushings. This level of customization is pretty standard for most bowers. Some will allow you to specify 3 under or split finger tiller, (which is kind of interesting since they don't tiller the bow specific to how you position your bow hand, which would, I would think, similarly affect tiller/nock point adjustments). Some will also offer high, low, or medium grip, which is nice too.

Border Archery gave me a whole lot more options...

I went with HyperFlex composite core limbs over the standard wood, just because. The bow was expensive enough stock that I figured, why save a little to leave me wondering.

I got to choose my woods (though one of them had to be shedua, which I understand, as it means they can get you exactly the limb weight you want by selecting from their stock in limbs, and ensure that it matches not only your bow, but anybody else's). I can't say I prefer the limitation, as it means that I only got to choose one of my wood laminations, (the other a dark Indian Rosewood), and the highlight color, which I chose as red.

Sight insert. While I don't use a dedicated sight mechanism, I like bow quivers that mount to ATA sight inserts. This is not an uncommon customization for any bower, but Border put it in exactly in the requested height relative to the shelf. Why? So it would match the sight window position of the Predator Velocity I had *******ized, and gotten used to. I gap via the sight window, since my point on distance with a 30.5" arrow is 60 yards and as such, the arrow tip itself is utterly useless as a reference under 50 yards or so. As such, I want my peripheral sight picture to be as consistent as possible, for shooting 'gapstinctively', or with a particular explicit gap. Less to remember, less to adjust, less to screw up  I could have just gotten used to whatever they arbitrarily decided to do, but it was nice to be able to choose.

Stabilizer insert. Also, not unusual. With such a deflexed riser, which is supposedly more forgiving and therefore more accurate on the whole, the weight of the bow at rest wants to fall slightly back if sitting in a loose grip. As such, I plan on putting some kind of stab as a counter weight, as I'd prefer that the bow simply sit Interesting note. I tried shooting with a 12" bee stinger, with who knows how much weight up front. The arrangement put the center of balance towards the front of the shelf. You can hold it level with minimal effort, but the balance, in a loose hand, is just so ever forward. I figured I might want a little something in there for tuning, and this was available. I shot it once. It was horrible. Bow rolled forward something awful, though the shot, it seemed. I put in a small bolt with some washers instead, and it was fine, so I think there's hope for some degree of stab (I plan to make something that resembles a short bayonet (a true 'stab'), but this is not the bow to convert to a full on FITA rig  On a positive note; in addition to seeming to work well with a minimal stab, for the sake of mass allocation and balance, and maybe vibration absorption and/or minor torque resistance, this bow shoots great just plain naked! I could probably achieve what I want in balance with a slightly forward bow quiver. Maybe it will come to that 

Plunger insert. The 5/16 past center cut shelf allows the use of a plunger button, as well as a wide degree of tuning options by building up a strike plate area. I asked for the plunger button insert, mounted to allow me to shoot off the shelf. I liked it lots with my Predator Velocity, and while I know it sounds a little weird, to forgo an elevated rest, but then use a plunger, but I like it. Easy to get an arrow onto a shelf, and keep it there. Easy to do fine tuning with a plunger. I may not, in the end, even use the plunger, based on how well it tunes with a simple strike plate near center shot with the Nemesis 500 shafts, but it's an option, and I'm glad to have it, the way I want it.

Customized sight window . This was a big deal for me. With a relatively long point on at my preferred anchor, I resort to the position of the target within the sight window, one way or another, including relations to the point. I first clued in on this when I realized that with my Classic Predator bows, with their crescent shaped sight windows, that if I canted the bow so that the point was under the edge, at 20 yard, the arrow impacted almost exactly halfway between the point and corner of the sight window. At 30 yards, the arrow dropped another 6-8" or so. This was really useful. When I got my Velocity riser, that shape disappeared, and even shooting instinctively, my vertical spread opened up. There was a corner on the limb mount I could see, but the spread was too wide, too peripheral, and visually I got kind of lost. I threw some JB weld, after seeing Rick's work with limb pockets, molded in a crescent shape, this time smaller, only as big as I needed to see my arrow trajectory, and things got more familiar again, and far easier. I could gap using the top, the arrow tip, halfway between the two, one third from top, one third from bottom. I gave border the important specifications on dimensions, namely 5/16" cut past center, corner of sight window 2 1/2" high, and 3/16" before the center line of the bow, and included some pictures of what I had done myself. It came in a slightly different shape (which I actually like better), but with specifications were spot on. What is more, if I want it ground down a little more, for fine tuning, they said they'll do it for only the cost of shipping. Flippin' fantastic.

Custom grip. I don't mean high/medium/low. I sent them a Hoyt High Ortho grip, which I really like the feel of, and they duplicated it as best they could given the dimension requirements of the material. (The Hoyt was made for an aluminum riser, and as such, could be made thinner). What I got is pretty much exactly what I wanted. I may end up doing a little grinding in the thumb rest position, and the top right above my index finger metacarpal, then take them up on their modification offer for refinishing, but it's pretty comfy as is, so I'm going to sit on it for now. I'm a little hesitate to mess with something that works as well as it does.

46# of draw weight. Why 46 instead of 45? Dunno. 4 is 2/3 of 6, both are even, the sum is even, half of that is 23, and 2x3 is 6, plus it's one more than 45. Just seemed like a better number 

Tungsten Carbide in the bow. I like a relatively heavy riser. I haven't weighed the finished bow yet, but it does have some heft without any weight added. I wouldn't call it really heavy. Part of that is because the limbs are so freaking light. This is good, from an efficiency and hand shock standpoint. The bow, as is, is heavy enough so that I can shoot it naked and it feels good, but not so heavy as so that I can't put a little more stuff on it, like a bow quiver, and a small stab, for weight distribution, without making it unwieldy. I like this option, a lot.

Bolt Down limbs. I went with these for several reasons. First, because they were available, while the ILF versions are still in development. Second, because they get a little better performance. Third, because, while it is not a given, Sid said that they are potentially quieter. I don't have anything ILF to compare them to, but I will say that I really like how they implemented the bolt down limbs. These things are _precise_, but also easy to mount (you don't have to be really careful getting things seated), have a nice cushy gasket, between the limbs and the risers, just rock solid.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

*On the tuning, it was the fastest tune I've had* (alright, I'm not really quite done, since I have to tune after setting the plunger for a slight offset with the spring back in it). This may have been a lot of luck, but the cut 5/16" past center, allowing a center shot arrow, might have a bunch to do with it. I'm not done-done, but, in terms of getting a bare shaft flying straight... 
I had gotten a bunch of different arrows. I had a few deep six variations on hand, but hadn't gotten to trying them. At first, I didn't know if there was an easy way to set the insert in a manner that I could easily remove for the sake of cutting down arrow length. So, I tried a set of Eastons that used more conventional inserts, a 440 ACC, 400 Nemesis, and 500 Nemesis, all full length (which is something different for each, of course  ), all with 125 grain points, with standard 22 grain HP inserts. 

440 ACC and 400 Nemesis flew a wee bit stiff, though I have to say that the slightly cut down 440 ACC at 30.5", with 4.5" feathers, flew absolutely great, maybe not perfect, but it would be hard to tell the difference without broad heads or bare shaft comparisons. 500 Nemesis with 125 grain points, full length, at my 28 1/2" draw length, just plain perfect. Bare shafts going into the bag sank in to half the shaft length, like hitting butter, minimal impact noise. Shooting bare shaft at 20 yards at my Rinehart hanging spot ball, arrows flew straight, with no visible nock lean I could tell, exactly where I would expect a tuned fletch arrow to fly. Shot repetitively, ridiculously consistent and forgiving. This is almost too easy.

I set up the center position for the bare shaft tuning to hone in on arrow selection/tuning as per the instructions on 'Tuning for Tens', that is, set up center shot (for the ACC 440, which is slightly smaller but roughly the same 9/32 diameter as the Nemesis 500, which is just a tad smaller itself than the Nemesis 400. So, I suppose, the ACC was center shot, and the Nemesis 500 and 400 were just slightly out of center shot (but not so far as the standard distance out of center, with the side of the point on center. The plunger was set almost infinitely stiff (with a section of bamboo replacing the spring). I put a leather strike plate on, just to protect the finish of the bow when I put arrows on, or in case of any striking the riser, and it ran flush with the plunger in this location. I'll move into moving the arrow out of center, and re-tuning with the plunger, both bare shaft and fletched, though I'm somewhat tempted to simply pull the plunger and let it run, as is, with just the leather strike plate. Eventually, I might try some of the Deep Six arrows, to see if something works as well, because those skinny things just look so damn sexy, and hold promise of slightly less drag and drift, but I've got to say, if I simply stopped now with the Nemesis 500 shafts and a simple leather strike plate as it is, this thing shoots as well as I could ever ask of a bow.

*Smooth draw. I mean, WAY smooth.* If you've not tried a super recurve, or the Asian Horse Bows, you have no idea how smooth a draw can be. The first time you pull one, it might feel really odd in comparison, maybe a little freaky. On first pull, it was kind of a let off feeling. After a little shooting, I didn't notice that sensation. Just seems plain comfy, very easy to adjust to. However, going back to conventional limb profile, makes what I felt was a relatively smooth draw compared to other recurves I've shot, seem to just plain stack flat out nasty. Totally unexpected, going the other way, but sensible. Point being, you can probably get used to anything, so give whatever you're evaluating a little time, maybe going back and forth, before you give it a final call. You can get used to anything. Me, I prefer the silky smooth on the back end. Totally relaxing to hold. Very conducive to getting full expansion. In fact, the smooth draw seems to enable more consistent shooting overall. I didn't do a histogram for comparison, but in an anecdotal sense, it seems more forgiving, in terms of arrow speed, if I have a slight collapse on the draw. This makes sense, mathematically, since a higher proportion of the stored energy is put into the bow before approaching the area near full draw, and the draw weight fluctuates less near anchor. When I get to a range with longer distances, It will be interesting to see if I do any better with the vertical component, which in prior experience, really requires a very consistent draw.


*Lots of Energy output for the holding weight.* This shouldn't be a surprise, given the stored energy curve of a super recurve, and the fact that the limbs are light. Still, experiencing it is another thing.

46# bow hurling 432 grain arrow almost as fast as my 54# bow, about 194-195 fps versus 200-201 fps, smoother draw, easier holding. Not exactly a fair comparison, as it is comparing uber tech carbon fiber with synthetic core to fiberglass with maple core. Design of super recurve also stores more energy, means that I put more work into it for a given holding weight. That being said, the holding weight seems to have more impact on the shot than the actual energy required for the draw, the most extreme example being a compound bow with let-off being relatively easy to shoot compared to an 'equal' draw weight conventional bow, which stores far less energy (and requires less to draw).

That being said, I don't think I've got the Covert Hunter, with that arrow, at its working best. It definitely wasn't tuned for that arrow, and I believe that it could do better with a more suitable arrow at that weight. My thinking is that a tuned arrow will take the energy more efficiently from the bow than one that isn't. Initially, when bare shaft testing, I started nock quite high (for a high grip, shooting 3 under), like 3/4" above center, to avoid the shelf bounce. When I moved it down to about 3/8" above center, bow quieted down substantially, and speed picked up about 4-5 fps. Also, the string on the 46# COVERT Hunter was a 20 strand 8190 Flemish Twist, versus the 20 strand 8190 Endless loop on the 54# Predator. Couple feet per second possible between the strings (which I'll try out later) isn't a lot, but it is something to note. Also, I might try dropping strand count, as the H nocks on the Nemesis 500 (which turned out to be a great combination), are a little tighter than the X nocks on the 440 ACC pro hunters that work well with the 54# Predator.

As impressive as it is, it should be noted that compared to heavier Covert Hunter tests, results at 46# are not quite as remarkable, on a straight, simple numerical comparison, as what you'll see in the 55-60# range demonstrated by others. This was to be as expected, as Sid had explained that the strings/nocks/silencers don't scale in weight with the arrows, and a small increase in the carbon thickness provides a lot more draw weight. In the end, I'm getting more or less what was promised on the chart that Border Archery provides given arrow weight, draw length (28 1/2", more or less), 200 fps on average with a little more than 9 gpp of holding weight. I might do a little better once I play a little with strand count, serving, silencers, and fine tuning.
I do not need an arm guard, at all. Playing with the brace height from 6 1/2 to 6 5/8", I didn't even get a grazing on the hairs of my arm. I've never heard of such a thing. My 54# predator, if I am very careful to make extra sure to rotate my hand out, most of the time, I can get away with any pain, and it doesn't touch, much, but my arm hairs can feel it slide by. It's never as rough as to affect the shot, but it is definitely not a bow I'd want to make a habit of shooting without an arm guard. My 'Classic' predators don't need arm guards, but they brace at about 7 3/8". 6 1/2" with not a hint of arm contact. It befuddles me, but I'm really stroked!

*The bow is quiet, in its own way, but benefits from small additions.*
The super recurve is very much not like a long bow, in that the limb tips themselves are relatively far from where the string holds the limb, when the bow is at rest. As such, after the shot, while the string tension will stop the limb at the tips, getting a lot of leverage on it at that point, a super recurve does not have these benefit. As such, after the shot, the limb tips, and the middle of the limbs, oscillate in opposing directions around where the string leaves the limb. As a result, there is a very low frequency hum, directed mostly at the shooter (and relatively inaudible to the side). Strumming the string, it seems that it is far quieter in the direction of the target. My guess is that the orientation of limb curve focuses most of the sound toward the shooter's head/ears. During this oscillation, there is a little string contact, which makes a quiet buzz. I put a couple of piece of the soft side of Velcro centered at the points where the string leaves the limb, which keeps the repetitive contact from occurring beyond that point, kind of like how a string doesn't touch the limbs of a long bow, sort of, and that totally hushed things up. I had minimum string silencers on 3/4 and 1/3 positions, measured from where the strings left contact, and a single patch of 'spider legs', (they come as a pair of 2), spread across four positions, was plenty. In fact, I trimmed a lot of it off, because the string itself didn't seem to be making much noise at all. Now it just makes, so far as I can tell, a gentle, deep thump, which in itself is loudest to me. 

*The fletched arrow flew way quieter!* I don't understand this. All of my predators, with quasi-shield cut feathers in the 4.5-5" range, near or at 200 fps, launch arrows that hiss. It actually sounds kind of cool. The covert Hunter, at 195 fps, launched an arrow that was dead silent. My only thinking that I can rationalize is that maybe the smoother draw curve, and lower actual holding weight, is allowing the arrow to launch with less flexure and oscillation, making for better aerodynamics? Something to get to with the slow motion camera.

*The 62" Covert Hunter, is physically shorter my 60" standard recurve, but the string angles are way less extreme, emulating a much longer bow*. I should remember to get pictures of this... Later.
.
That is all for now. When I have time to play some more, I'll share any updates. Thanks for looking!


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)




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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)




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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Beautiful bow Barney and what a great write up, thanks for taking the time. Seems like Border has a real winner with the Covert Hunter.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

That's one Bad A** Gorgeous Bow!!!! :thumbs_up :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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## grapplemonkey (Nov 2, 2005)

Off to put a kidney up for sale on the black market...

Great review... would love to see a full pic of it strung.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

BarneySlayer said:


> [*]I got to choose my woods (though one of them had to be shedua, which I understand, as it means they can get you exactly the limb weight you want by selecting from their stock in limbs, and ensure that it matches not only your bow, but anybody else's). I can't say I prefer the limitation, as it means that I only got to choose one of my wood laminations, (the other a dark Indian Rosewood), and the highlight color, which I chose as red.[/LIST]


That's my ONLY issue.

Absolutely LOVE the dark Indian Rosewood but would LOVE to have the option of picking a different wood besides Shedua.

It's a beautiful combination...but it wouldn't have been my first choice as it sounds like it might not have been yours either.

Ray :shade:


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

BLACK WOLF said:


> That's my ONLY issue.
> 
> Absolutely LOVE the dark Indian Rosewood but would LOVE to have the option of picking a different wood besides Shedua.
> 
> ...


It wasn't my first choice. It worked out, as I changed my color theme, and the name, to Kahn Noonien Singh....









Intellectually and genetically superior, of course, by design 

I _originally_ was looking into midnight heritage and a dark, dark hunter green, with red highlights, as per Cthulu, of H.P. Lovecraft...









Love the stories, and the high priest of the interdimensional deep was as seductive as he was powerful and, by our definition, evil, though I really just consider him a hunter of a more dangerous species 

However, aside from the shedua requirement, they didn't have any green that was dark enough, though the hyperflex core is slightly green in itself...

I'll get a picture of it strung for comparison, just as soon as I finish Mike's string. He's been oh so patient, and it looks great, half-finished on the jig, but not as nice as it will when it's complete


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

That bow is a piece of art. Put it in a museum, or hunt with it, either or.... 

I made the mistake of looking up the price list for the Border bows on their Facebook site. The medics are now here, treating me for sticker shock. They say I'll be fine in a day or two, just need to drink lots of fluids and stay off me feet.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Wow. Congrats.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Nice review Colin and welcome to the Border family of shooters. Now, I will have to keep an even closer look at your presence on the range. Congratulations. Can't wait to see it in person.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Colin,

Make sure your quiver is made out of Corinthian leather to match the theme of your bow :wink:

Ray :shade:


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

That's a beautiful bow..congrats!!


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## arrowbuster (Feb 16, 2014)

Definitely a beauty, looking forward to more reviews. Sounds like you are pretty pleased overall.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Congrats Barney!...they sure look like one heckuva bow and?..

You have the right to be very proud of that one!:thumbs_up


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Looks like a work of art. 
Dan


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## mrjeffro (Jul 25, 2007)

Excellent write up. My CH should be here by the end of the week. I thought I would be the only one adding a plunger hole to a CH :wink:


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

That is a very good read about your CH. Congrats, looks and sounds like one sweet bow!


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## tpcowfish (Aug 11, 2008)

Congrat's on your new bow, someday, maybe !


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

BarneySlayer. I think the fletched shaft change in noise might be due to The arrow leaving the bow with a tighter left/right action.
We are finding the bow shoots alot of spines with credability. And the low brace not hitting your arm. All this leads to an indication the change in arrow fleched noise would be less "slide slip" as the arrows straighen up as they leave the bow.

Thanks for the review/feedback. Good info like this is very helpfull to our understanding as to what archers out there think.


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## ghoster808 (Jun 29, 2007)

Great write up/review Colin! Your mastery of writing is on par with your String making 
I didn't know your bow was in, so now feel very fortunate my string is completed lol. Bow is drop dead gorgeous and it's performance, from what I have read is on par with it's looks! Thanks for sharing. 

-Mike-


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Paul68 said:


> That bow is a piece of art. Put it in a museum, or hunt with it, either or....
> 
> I made the mistake of looking up the price list for the Border bows on their Facebook site. The medics are now here, treating me for sticker shock. They say I'll be fine in a day or two, just need to drink lots of fluids and stay off me feet.


It was, in fact, truly expensive, in the range of which I'm slightly embarassed. When the economy is good, I do okay, though for the last several years, I certainly wouldn't fall into the high income category. This is not my usual spending bracket. In fact, aside from taking the wife out for lunch, and sometimes dinner, I'm pretty cheap. When it comes to selecting restaurants, I tend to swerve towards very value-oriented selections, like $9 for lunch item is the upper end. $5 is better. It took some saving away time, certainly, and I can't say that it's really a bang for your buck kind of proposition, at all. I have often thought, in a respectful way, what would GEREP/Kevin say about this? 

Actually, I think he would understand. It's a luxury.

I'm not done with making it 'just right'. But in my experience, that is a several month process for any bow, getting it as just as suited to me as can be, tuning, choice or adjustment of accessories, what have you. I'm going to try some limb savers, as per JP's implementation, as well as experiment with different stab weight and balance configurations, fiddle with the tune of the arrows, plunger position and tension, etc. Might even play with the brace height, but I kind of like the feel of the draw as is...

I do feel comfortable saying that this is the bow that I believe is as close to what I want in a bow as can be done, and close enough that in the future, should anything else come along, I really don't care. _This bow is mine,_ addresses every issue I've thought up, in terms of what I want, and is a great place to stop, or at least pause for a very extended period. If something is smoother, faster, quieter, whatever, I don't care. Kudos to future developments, but I'm good 

What's more, while after modifications and customizing it ended up costing as almost as much as the last three relatively high-end recurves I've purchased, put together, from the standpoint of having something to shoot, I would rather have this single bow than the rest of what I've got. Not looking to dump anything. Each has memories attached. But, from a functionality standpoint, this gets me all of what I really want for far less than what I've spent in the rest of it. In that sense, I think you could say it is a pretty good value. 

Not that I consider everything I've bought before a waste. Each has its own appeal, and as mentioned, memories, were part of a path helping me figure out what I valued, as well as the training benefits of changing parameters, (my 70# long bow is _not_ easy to shoot accurately, and is a real form task master). 

I will return to them from time to time, but at heart, I'm not really a collector. I've given bows away to friends because they would use them where I would not, and recently sold a couple of my compound bows, cheap, (which in truth did help fund a few hundred dollars of this venture) primarily because I wanted somebody who appreciated them to let them see more of life. Having corresponded with the buyers, I'm confident that my Martin Firecat and PSE Axe 6 will have some good adventures 

Needless to say, I'm not about to accumulate a stable of these things, and this one will definitely get dirty. Heck, where I live, everything gets dirty. It can't be helped.

However, when Border has the ILF Hex 7 limbs ready, the wife will certainly discover some very deep hooks in her stockings . She's been relatively kicking ass, considering how little she practices, with her Martin X-200, and I think it's time for her to see what she can really do beyond 35 yards


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Very nice bow, there, man!


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## Bruce K (Jun 1, 2002)

I have the just ordered the same bow on a 23" riser, I want to shoot from an elevated rest, mine will be in the 40 # range for field shooting , can not wait


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Borderbows said:


> BarneySlayer. I think the fletched shaft change in noise might be due to The arrow leaving the bow with a tighter left/right action.
> We are finding the bow shoots alot of spines with credability. And the low brace not hitting your arm. All this leads to an indication the change in arrow fleched noise would be less "slide slip" as the arrows straighen up as they leave the bow.


That is my thinking as well. I believe two things contribute to this. First, and probably less so, is that the ability to shoot closer to center shot allows for a stiffer dynamic spine, and therefore less flex. Secondly, because you have a smoother accelleration, with lower peak weight for a given energy transfer, you flex the shaft less as well. When I have more free time, I will grab my slow motion camera and see if I can get a visual comparison.

In response to the request for the strung length of the 62" Covert Hunter compared to my relatively standard profile 60" recurve.









Unstrung, you can see it among some others, resting on top of my daughter's Omega, the hooks look downright ridiculous


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## Gapmaster (May 23, 2002)

I'm kind of a Tech nut when it comes to archery. I'm so anal I have to tear everything apart to see how, why and when something works. I'm my own worst enemy actually. I spend more time tinkering with equipment than I do shooting. Drives me crazy. Anyway, I'm wondering--is there any slow motion videos of those Border limbs being shot. I would really like to see those hooks in slow motion action?
By the way, I don't know who does the wood work over there but he or she does an outstanding job. Great looking bow.
Gap


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

BarneySlayer said:


> It was, in fact, truly expensive, in the range of which I'm slightly embarassed. When the economy is good, I do okay, though for the last several years, I certainly wouldn't fall into the high income category. This is not my usual spending bracket. In fact, aside from taking the wife out for lunch, and sometimes dinner, I'm pretty cheap. When it comes to selecting restaurants, I tend to swerve towards very value-oriented selections, like $9 for lunch item is the upper end. $5 is better. It took some saving away time, certainly, and I can't say that it's really a bang for your buck kind of proposition, at all. I have often thought, in a respectful way, what would GEREP/Kevin say about this?
> 
> Actually, I think he would understand. It's a luxury.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the response. I was playing off GrappleMonkey's comment about selling a kidney, and hope I didn't offend. Please don't get me wrong, I don't fault you (or anyone) for spending their hard earned funds where they see fit. The old cliché about “buy the best you can afford” certain applies here, and by the looks of things, you actually got a bargain. The bow looks, and by your review, shoots remarkably well, but you also bought into some top end customer service. 
I certainly understand the “this bow is mine….” comment, and like the old credit card commercials, that is priceless. I imagine most of us at some point have had the bow that seems more an extension of your arm than a separate entity. Personally, I’m getting back into Trad after a 30+ year hiatus. I’ve always shot fingers & instinctive, but mostly with compounds. I’ve added a nice Black Widow recurve and just recently a long bow, but have a long journey ahead in this discipline of the sport. If this catches fire the way I imagine, my coin jar will have a hard time keeping up with my desired purchases. Honestly, though, I’m just hoping for the same level of satisfaction you seem to have found with this little bit of woodworking art. I might get lucky and find that satisfaction in an old beat up Shakespeare recurve, or the artists at BorderBows or BlackWidow or XXXXX will build the perfect recurve, and drop it off at the house. I’ll hand over the keys to my Toyota Tacoma, and like the Indian brave in _Dances with Wolves_, I will say “Good trade.”


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Barney I'm on the road and only got a phone to view this 

Just wanted to say congrats


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## Scott G. (Jul 27, 2005)

Thanks for taking the time to share. I got to try out someone's Border Bolt TD hex 6 recurve (not CH) at a shoot a couple weeks back and my first thought at the first draw and loose was ..... WOW, WOW, WOW! Amazing bows for sure! Congrats


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Paul68 said:


> I appreciate the response. I was playing off GrappleMonkey's comment about selling a kidney, and hope I didn't offend.


No offense interpreted. I merely thought that it was a good point, and relevant. It is a very expensive bow. I just felt compelled to explain my reasons. Fortunately, for me, I keep liking it more and more as I play with it. Thanks 



Scott G. said:


> Thanks for taking the time to share. I got to try out someone's Border Bolt TD hex 6 recurve (not CH) at a shoot a couple weeks back and my first thought at the first draw and loose was ..... WOW, WOW, WOW! Amazing bows for sure! Congrats


When itbeso let me pull his hex 6 bow, it was a very nice feeling, made me anticipate the arrival that much more!


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Minor update.... Bare shaft shooting at 20 yards shows that the 500 Nemesis shafts are a little weak with supplied hardware and 125 gn points. Tried an ACC 440 again (full length 32 1/8" long, BOP), 125 gn point, flying dart-like, though just a little more mass than I want for my purposes, dropping speed to 192 fps. I know, speed isn't everything. However, Stu's dynamic calculator, if I'm using it correctly, says that if I cut off 5/8 of an inch shorter, bringing it to 30.5, (the full length nemesis shafts are shorter than the ACC shafts, for some reason), i should get to the same dynamic spine. Besides, the Nemesis Carbon shafts are far cheaper than the ACC Pro Hunters... I'll try that when I have more time to futz with cutting shafts.

Also, I was playing with these strap on limb silencers. Seemed cool, in that you can move them around to find the best position. I figured out why they didn't work on my Predator either. The straps can't hold tight even, so they slap and buzz against the limbs. Tried them on, for weight if nothing else, and about mid-limb (or rather about mid-point between the end of the fade out and where the string leaves the limb), where they get the most vibration, they didn't slow down the arrow an iota, which I'm sure is some scientific unit of sorts, related to quantum archery, as opposed to ITOA, which is a function to convert a single number into ASCII text. 

But driving in the plunger so that the tip's inside edge is on the center line, as opposed to having the arrow actually center shot (in the case of the leather strike plate which was flush with the plunger set with the match stick inside), the arrows fly weak, no matter what. I couldn't get the spring stiff enough. It may be that the Tradtech stubby plunger just doesn't have the adjustment range. It may be that I'm missing something, though as far as I can tell, I did it the same way with the Predator, and it worked beautifully.

I will return to it later, maybe try the DAS shorty plunger I have around, see if it's any different. For now, I'm going to simply stick with the leather stike plate, arrows lined up center shot (which, I know, not supposed to work, but it is for me, today at least , so I'm sticking with it for the moment.


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## mrjeffro (Jul 25, 2007)

Barney, could you post a picture of your plunger/ rest set up. 

Thanks


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

I have the TT stub plunger on a 21" Excel and now have the spring screw flush to the casing end. Did this in an attempt to get POI to move left a bit. Not sure what the issue is, and not sure if the adjustment I have made will help long term. Was thinking of getting a stiffer spring.

Was also thinking of trying the "Tuning for Tens" procedure.

The Covert sure looks to be a good bow to be using to learn more.


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## SactoBowman (Jan 15, 2006)

Great review. I ordered a BD from Sid last year with the HEX 6 limbs. Love the bow. Is your CH a 17 riser?

Bill


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## Bruce K (Jun 1, 2002)

Bout to start the tuning journey with my ch, 44# @303/4. 68 inch bow


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Gapmaster said:


> I'm kind of a Tech nut when it comes to archery. I'm so anal I have to tear everything apart to see how, why and when something works. I'm my own worst enemy actually. I spend more time tinkering with equipment than I do shooting. Drives me crazy. Anyway, I'm wondering--is there any slow motion videos of those Border limbs being shot. I would really like to see those hooks in slow motion action?
> By the way, I don't know who does the wood work over there but he or she does an outstanding job. Great looking bow.
> Gap



I should do this.... I have one of those durned POS Casio cameras...

I just caved in and installed the plunger. Took a non-standard implementation, as the shorty was too short... Moved it out of center, and then I could get the spring stiff enough. It's a 19" riser.

Will take pictures and see if my camera with the video capability has any battery left. 

Follow up notes....

Limb saver (recurve 'smaller jobbies') installed 6.5" (center position) from the riser has brought the light 'Thrum....' following the shot to a pretty dead 'thump'. I had previously put limb savers at the end of the fade outs, and they didn't do that much, but added a little weight (which I like). The additional limb savers, aside from the sound, gives a different feel to the riser in the hand. More definitive, quicker feel, I like it. Chronograph shows no negative difference, perhaps 1 fps faster...

I've also noticed that, probably due to the 'smoothness' of the draw force curve, that this bow is FAR easier to shoot consistently, from a speed criteria perspective, than my other recurves. It may be that because it's simply lighter, and feels smoother, I can easily get into full expansion. Still, from a mathematical standpoint, a given change in draw length results in a lower change, proportionally, of stored energy, so I do believe it is more forgiving in that sense.

While I love the bow, it still doesn't make me a better shooter. If my form and execution is sloppy, while it still goes in the general direction, it doesn't magically fix my errors


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Not so great shooting. I'm going to claim CP (Camera Panic). Maybe I should have just looped the shot where I hit something 

Nah, I just shot crappy, and it happens more regularly than I'd like.

But, it does give you a feel for sound, even if I don't have the SPL meter broken out. You can hear the dog barking down the hill, and the arrows whizzing in.

Not silent, but quiet enough for me 






When the sun hits somewhere I can shoot from, I'll get a slow motion video of the limbs moving.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

That has a nice low-frequency sound, probably on account of the minimized preload in the design. I like it!

-Grant


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I think these owe when tuned are very quiet


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## Bruce K (Jun 1, 2002)

I plan to shoot mine as much as possible this weekend and settle the string in , I have to keep adjusting the brace height every 20-30 shots at present , once it slows and settles I can start to tune, at present the carbon express Heritage 150 with 100 gn points seem to work well


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

You can see that after the shot, the limb tips, with so much hook, are so far away from the string restraint, they just wobble away!

As grant pointed out, it's very low frequency in nature, and because of the width of the limbs tips, combined with the lack of baffle, and because I've got velcro keeping the string from slapping against the limbs while they move, they don't make a whole lot of sound.

Sorry about the crappy background and framing... I was late digging a hole, a hole that's still not done, probably won't be filled until tomorrow evening 

Notice my strong conclusion, where I tap myself on the back of the head.....


Actually, there was a bug.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

The Tradtech Shorty plunger turned out to be too short to get through the riser. Fortunately, if I removed the set piece, I could get in enough, and it also left enough room for my quiver to come down without alteration. In order to get it to stay, I thought about Rick Barbee. "What would Rick do?" I thought... Well, JB weld doesn't leave me with much adjustment room, so I went with Teflon Tape.









I know it looks a wee bit ghetto, my mounting tape build up with my velcro rest, but hey, it works. I could have had the plunger drilled forward, between the sections of carbon fiber, but I went with this. It might be less optimal, but I'm going to go with it. Bow shoots way better than I do, though I guess you could say that of all of them, right?


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## Elestial (Jun 4, 2015)

I love my Covert Hunter, I sold all my other bows... just keeping the CH and an other Border Harrier Royale...  
It is hard to shoot anything else when you have the choice...!

Charlie.:.
www.instinctivearchery.co.uk


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I kinda feel the same


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