# 2010 bowtech?



## itchyfinger

When, where and how? :tongue:


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## montigre

*???*

Who cares???? Park it in Gen Pop......:zip:


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## itchyfinger

montigre said:


> Who cares???? Park it in Gen Pop......:zip:


But I meant the target bows.....





and I care.


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## JayMc

I knew this gal from Youngsville back when I was at Tech. She didn't shoot, but had great form. :zip:


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## itchyfinger

JayMc said:


> I knew this gal from Youngsville back when I was at Tech. She didn't shoot, but had great form. :zip:


Did she shoot a bowtech?? I might know her.


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## Bees

itchyfinger said:


> But I meant the target bows.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I care.


apparently your the only one.

I have noticed over here when they finally got serious about hitting the dot, most of them got a Hoyt... :darkbeer: :secret:


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## WrongdayJ

Bees said:


> I have noticed over here when they finally got serious about hitting the dot, most of them got a Hoyt... :darkbeer: :secret:


Huh? I'm gonna go ahead and raise the flag on this one. . . :bs:

Hoyt Schmoyt. Folks that are serious about hitting the dot are gonna hit the dot even if they are using a bare stick bow. 

I'm not flaming you Bees. . .It's just like fingernails on the chalkboard everytime I hear that.

I've shot with folks shooting Bowtechs that flat pounded the X- hung 545+ on a field course they never shot before.

I think I've seen someone shoot over 540 with every different manufacturer there is. . .PSE, Martin, Bear, name it. They were all 'serious' shooters. 

Sorry to rant. . .this just bugs me.


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## Bees

WrongdayJ said:


> Huh? I'm gonna go ahead and raise the flag on this one. . . :bs:
> 
> Hoyt Schmoyt. Folks that are serious about hitting the dot are gonna hit the dot even if they are using a bare stick bow.
> 
> I'm not flaming you Bees. . .It's just like fingernails on the chalkboard everytime I hear that.


Look, I don't care how it sits with ya, Must be something to it because I see a lot of hoyts out there and not many bowtec's. Fact of life.

Now I know one shooter, she carries a 540 field average and she shoots a bowtec. She is the only one I see doing any good with the brand. 

Other top shooters, I see a few use PSE's , A couple use Mathews, 
One Pro use's I think its a bowman but far and away Hoyts are more popular.
that's what I see, ya don't like it.. tuff... 

went to FITA shoot samething Some Win&Win but Hoyts had a strong showing. I don't think FITA shooters even think Bowtec.


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## WrongdayJ

Bees said:


> . . .I see a lot of hoyts out there and not many bowtec's. Fact of life.


I agree . . .but I think this is because of other factors beyond the scope of this thread- one of which you mention below.




Bees said:


> . . .She is the only one I see doing any good with the brand.


You need to get out more. Bowtech is legit. . .they are not my favorite, but they make some very capable bows no doubt.




Bees said:


> . . .but far and away Hoyts are more popular.
> that's what I see, ya don't like it.. tuff...


Now THIS I totally agree with. They are a _popular_ bow. I see tons of guys shooting 490's with Hoyts. . .they must not be serious enough.


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## cptbrain

Bees said:


> Look, I don't care how it sits with ya, Must be something to it because I see a lot of hoyts out there and not many bowtec's. Fact of life.
> 
> Now I know one shooter, she carries a 540 field average and she shoots a bowtec. She is the only one I see doing any good with the brand.
> 
> Other top shooters, I see a few use PSE's , A couple use Mathews,
> One Pro use's I think its a bowman but far and away Hoyts are more popular.
> that's what I see, ya don't like it.. tuff...
> 
> went to FITA shoot samething Some Win&Win but Hoyts had a strong showing. I don't think FITA shooters even think Bowtec.


Sorry, couldn't resist, but I think Hoyt is the bow of choice for poachers. This based on the un-scientific fact that most of the bows sold at the DNR auction (IL DNR) were Hoyt's. :darkbeer:


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## Bees

WrongdayJ said:


> I agree . . .but I think this is because of other factors beyond the scope of this thread- one of which you mention below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get out more. Bowtech is legit. . .they are not my favorite, but they make some very capable bows no doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now THIS I totally agree with. They are a _popular_ bow. I see tons of guys shooting 490's with Hoyts. . .they must not be serious enough.



Get out more ? I made 15 NFAA field shoots this year and 2 FITA shoots.
Where do you see tons of field shooters??
there is 12 Field ranges in Maryland That I know of and I have shot all but one at least once. We don't have Tons of shooters.
I saw what's out here in Maryland and it isn't a real big group but Lots of Hoyts shooting a lot higher than 490 and trust me they are serious.


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## Bees

cptbrain said:


> Sorry, couldn't resist, but I think Hoyt is the bow of choice for poachers. This based on the un-scientific fact that most of the bows sold at the DNR auction (IL DNR) were Hoyt's. :darkbeer:


I would suppose the reason for that is the Poacher wants to kill the deer, not himself when the dam bow blows up on him late at night. :darkbeer:


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## cptbrain

Bees said:


> I would suppose the reason for that is the Poacher wants to kill the deer, not himself when the dam bow blows up on him late at night. :darkbeer:


Everything, man made or by nature fails at some point. You could take my post many ways-which way did you choose?


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## Brown Hornet

cptbrain said:


> Everything, man made or by nature fails at some point. You could take my post many ways-which way did you choose?


VERY TRUE.....it's just not supposed to be the first time you use it :wink:


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## JayMc

JayMc said:


> I knew this gal from Youngsville back when I was at Tech. She didn't shoot, but had great form. :zip:





itchyfinger said:


> Did she shoot a bowtech?? I might know her.


She didn't shoot. She was a sweet young lady though.


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## Brown Hornet

Jay...settle down.....you can not like it all ya want. But Bees is 100% correct. Now he was kind of joking the way he said it....but for the most part when it comes to indoors, FITA and field....Hoyt reigns supreme. PERIOD

Doesn't mean that what you have isn't good....but it also doesn't mean that Hoyt doesn't out # the others by a landslide. 

for example.....I have shot field shoots locally this year where there were say 35 people there....about 25 of those people shot Hoyt....about 5 shoot Mathews...1 or 2 Matins....1 or 2 PSEs....and that just depends if Justin or Skinny man were there....usually one Bowman as Bees said and maybe ONE Bowtech. Sometimes of course there will be one or two more of something sprinkled in there....I think there were 4 Martins at States.....2 Bowtwechs....3-5 PSEs....about 10 Mathews if that....and the rest were Hoyt

The FITA/NAA shoots I shot....a few Mathews at each...and by few I mean 3 or 4....no Martins....ONE Bowtech...ONE PSE....and the rest Hoyt.

Lancaster....there are other bows...but 95% of the shooters there were shooting a Hoyt or Mathews....with about 65-70% of that group shooting a Hoyt. I think this year the only PSEs I saw in 3 days were shot by Chance, Griggs, Nathan B, and Micheal Braden....on and Rex and Tater :wink:

The HillBilly....Prag went to Martin so I think Justin and Skinny man had the only PSEs....

Outdoor Nationals....there were over 500 shooters there....I am POSITIVE I didn't see over 20 PSEs all week....heck half the time you had to stare at the bow rack for a second to figure out which Hoyt was yours. :chortle:

Here are my groups by day....at Nationals

Wed.....4 Hoyts....and pretty much Hoyts in all the groups around me but Young Jedi shooting Hinky's old S4

Thurs....3 Hoyts and a PSE....same with the groups around me but a different guy shooting a Martin.

Fri.....2 Hoyts a Martin and a Mathews....MoparMatty was shooting the Mathews and he was waiting on strings for his Hoyt....the other Hoyt shooter went back to Mathews....but I think I saw TWO PSEs...and when we finished Matty and I waited for someone and I saw at least 100 people walk by me.

Sat....2 Hoyts a Mathews (Matty again) and a Bowtech.....don't remember seeing more then one or two PSEs on the course either....

Sun....3 Hoyts.....I did see 2 PSEs that day....but one of them was Justin who I know and saw earlier and the guy I shot with on Fri. :wink: 

You can even go back and look at all of the pics I have posted this year.....how many PSE shooters do you see in the hundreds of pics I posted?

You have to remember....you live in Az....of course your going to see more PSEs :wink:


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## WrongdayJ

Hornet- 

I know that Hoyts are very popular bows. I also know that they are dominant (right now) at most national events. I am not disputing that.

I am not trying to compare what I have with other peoples equipment. Hoyt makes a fine product as does almost every other manufacturer out there. 

I am simply agitated by the add slogan, "get serious". 

You know yourself that if Tiger Woods were to come out and wear his pants pinned tight at the ankle- and won a major national event- there would be 150 guys pinning the pants tight at the ankle thinking that was the 'demon tweak'. Same with this Hoyt Fad. It's like the Star-Bellied Sneeches in the Dr. Suess story. 

I know guys at PSE and they eat, sleep, breathe, and crap Archery. They are as 'serious' about it as you can get. Same way with all the companies. It's cool to like Hoyt, or Martin. . .I just get kinda miffed with the whole idea that one needs a certain ANYTHING to be successful at Archery. There is no equipment 'blueprint' that in and of itself brings success. Ragsdale said it best. . . "There is nothing you can buy that will automatically increase your scores without practice and good form."

Including the vaunted Hoyts. It is the Archer that puts the art into this sport/hobby. I do not believe it's a science. Consider Byron Ferguson (sp?). He should NOT be able to do what he does with a barebow. . .it is the archer, not the bow.


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## Brown Hornet

I know what your saying.....

But....you can screw a B-Stinger on your bow and your score will go up....PERIOD 

and I shot a Martin for 2 years....and switching back to Hoyt made my scores go up


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## 2000danger

Oh my..... This is heated


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## DHawk2

I think it can be the combination of the archer and his equipment no matter what the brand. I'm sure there are some TOP shooters out there that have switched brands and gotten better and some that got worse. Some bows just fit the shooter better than others. just my 2cents.


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## WrongdayJ

Brown Hornet said:


> I know what your saying.....
> 
> But....you can screw a B-Stinger on your bow and your score will go up....PERIOD
> 
> and I shot a Martin for 2 years....and switching back to Hoyt made my scores go up


Nah. This isn't heated. I apologize if I am coming off that way. This is just healthy debate. 

B-stinger does make a nice Stab. . .that is true. 

But do you really think that switching back to Hoyt made your scores jump? . . .or was it the two additional _years_ of archery you had under your belt that contributed to your improvement? You got alot stronger and more confident in those two years- you are a field shooter. . .you probably launched thousands of arrows in those two years. Your muscles got more seasoned and you developed a muscle memory of what that good shot feels like. You also had two years to develop better form and control. Did you also change any other _equipment _ besides the bow?

See what I'm saying?


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## WrongdayJ

DHawk2 said:


> . . .I think it can be the combination of the archer and his equipment no matter what the brand. . .Some bows just fit the shooter better than others. . .


Agreed.


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## JayMc

DHawk2 said:


> I think it can be the combination of the archer and his equipment no matter what the brand. I'm sure there are some TOP shooters out there that have switched brands and gotten better and some that got worse. Some bows just fit the shooter better than others. just my 2cents.


I had this very discussion with my coach of 1.5yrs. He's one of the JDT coaches and also works for ASA. He's helped me a ton with 3D, but he's a fita guy at heart. When I told him I'm ready to buy in on spots and shoot less 3D we started discussing choosing the right bow for the move. He knows my shot inside and out so we threw out brands and focused on features and geometry. That narrowed it down to a handful of bows, which I then narrowed down to two options. After that it was pretty easy. 

I do believe it's all about finding the right combination. Some things are a given that they work better. Others are shooter specific.


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## railmitt

*popularity*



Bees said:


> Look, I don't care how it sits with ya, Must be something to it because I see a lot of hoyts out there and not many bowtec's. Fact of life.
> 
> Now I know one shooter, she carries a 540 field average and she shoots a bowtec. She is the only one I see doing any good with the brand.
> 
> Other top shooters, I see a few use PSE's , A couple use Mathews,
> One Pro use's I think its a bowman but far and away Hoyts are more popular.
> that's what I see, ya don't like it.. tuff...
> 
> went to FITA shoot samething Some Win&Win but Hoyts had a strong showing. I don't think FITA shooters even think Bowtec.


he had it RIGHT, right there at the end THEY ARE MORE POPULAR AS FAR AS HE SEES.he didn't sat anything about them being the equals to mathews or hoyt in the right hands.he's just seeing and saying his side of the story because he's BIASED


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## JMJ

Brown Hornet said:


> I know what your saying.....
> 
> But....you can screw a B-Stinger on your bow and your score will go up....PERIOD


Buy me one and if my score goes up ... I'll pay you for it!


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## Bees

railmitt said:


> he had it RIGHT, right there at the end THEY ARE MORE POPULAR AS FAR AS HE SEES.he didn't sat anything about them being the equals to mathews or hoyt in the right hands.he's just seeing and saying his side of the story because he's BIASED



what? let's see I report what I see. and others report what they see, and we see about the same and report about the same. Now Bowtec's don't have a strong Presence in field Archery , nor do they have a strong presence in FITA archery, so I report that and I'm biased. good grief you fanboys are impossible. 

As far as the Advertisment slogan get Serious Get a Hoyt. That is just pure great advertiseing and if you don't like it then see a shrink or something because there is something seriously wrong.

Never have I or anyone else implied other bow companies are not serious, but they don't have the catchy slogan. 

Just to rub a bit more, check the what is wrong with hoyt thread in gen pop.
Can't deny hoyt is on top of the spot world right now.


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## Jbird

*Keeping it Real*

I have only found two equipment purchases in my archery career that have had a definite and long lasting effect on my Field scores. One is changing to Hoyt and the other is changing to the B-Stinger XL Premier. Everything else has just been something else to spend money on. Personally I hope no more of the old farts in my class discover Hoyt and B-Stingers.  :wink: LOL
Jbird


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## Bees

Jbird said:


> I have only found two equipment purchases in my archery career that have had a definite and long lasting effect on my Field scores. One is changing to Hoyt and the other is changing to the B-Stinger XL Premier. Everything else has just been something else to spend money on. Personally I hope no more of the old farts in my class discover Hoyt and B-Stingers.  :wink: LOL
> Jbird


Which Hoyt did you settle on? I thought you had a 737, which is/was one of the better ones.


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## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> apparently your the only one.
> 
> I have noticed over here when they finally got serious about hitting the dot, most of them got a Hoyt... :darkbeer: :secret:


The only thing I care about is what I care about. That is poppin X's.....Looks like I need to get some apple sauce and get stung a few times. :doh: I still have the nakkid mystic but I tasted a bit of Vantage sauce.....and it tasted sweeeeeeeeeet. But I also heard that tech will redo the connie which (after the Tribute) is their best bow ever made. Heard that it was made for target archers by target archers and it's not just a stretched hunting bow any more. :zip: Triathlon season is over and it's time to get serious. :tongue:


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## Jbird

*Hoyts*



Bees said:


> Which Hoyt did you settle on? I thought you had a 737, which is/was one of the better ones.


I have the 737 and a PE. I love both of them and shoot similar scores with either one. I guess if I had to choose just one for field and indoors it would be the PE. It has XT 2000's and Spiral X cams. The 737 has Cam.5+ cams on it and is butter smooth drawing almost like a round wheel. I think that if you are the kind of shooter who shoots everyday you would be happier with the Spirals. If you are the kind that shoots once a week if you are lucky then you would probably like the Cam.5+ cams better.
Jbird


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## Brown Hornet

WrongdayJ said:


> Nah. This isn't heated. I apologize if I am coming off that way. This is just healthy debate.
> 
> B-stinger does make a nice Stab. . .that is true.
> 
> But do you really think that switching back to Hoyt made your scores jump? . . .or was it the two additional _years_ of archery you had under your belt that contributed to your improvement? You got alot stronger and more confident in those two years- you are a field shooter. . .you probably launched thousands of arrows in those two years. Your muscles got more seasoned and you developed a muscle memory of what that good shot feels like. You also had two years to develop better form and control. Did you also change any other _equipment _ besides the bow?
> 
> See what I'm saying?


I know what your saying....and your forgetting that your not talking to a newbie. I am not saying I am Jesse Broadwater or Dave Cousins or ever was....but I know how I used to shoot when I used to shoot a Hoyt :wink:

Yes I did sure things as far as execution of my release and what not....but no I didn't ever shoot a Martin as good as I shoot a Hoyt...any of them. 

PERIOD....I am not the only one...ask VaVince how never shot over a 525 on a field course....got an UE and set it up and a week later shot a 540 TWICE 

As for me....like I said...I am not claiming to be a monster shooter. But I used to shoot in the 50s indoors. Never shot over a 296 with 40 with any of my Martins....I got the PE last Aug and shot it twice outside...didn't touch the bow until a week before christmas and my first indoor round with it I shot 50Xs. I shot 2 other times indoors this past year....yes TWICE and I am not talking about shoots only...I mean shooting period...LAS CLASSIC and NAA States. Even with a zero (early release) and my bow not really tuned at all I still shot a higher score at LAS and with nothing out of the gold....NAA States I shot 30+ points higher. 

Outdoors....I didn't practice AT ALL this year...I went to the range TWICE...once to tune and one practice half with some friends....I shot about 10 local rounds all year...my bad days were still at or above my avg...never shot above a 525 with a Martin in my GREAT rounds....my avg was a 517-519 Hoyt those were my bad rounds while tuning....I didn't even have my setup dialed in until about a week before Nationals....the only day I shot below a 530 was the day I shot the wrong target on a fan and shot a 526...the arrow out was an X. 

My best round this year was a 534 at States...and I had my only two misses on the dang on bunny ever with marks...2 brain farts on the 17/19 that got me a 4....and 3 kiss outs...


So yes it was the bow change....like I said....I went BACK to Hoyt....Martin wasn't for me....Hoyt is...I also had the same issues with Mathews...not as drastic of a drop off...but not a good fit. 
And no I haven't changed equipment other then the bow...and stab...and even in the case of the stab....yes that has made a difference but even when I first got the Hoyt and my draw was about 1/2-3/8" long and I was shooting my old X10s....I still shot above my avg with no real marks then I did with the Martins....


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## Bees

itchyfinger said:


> The only thing I care about is what I care about. That is poppin X's.....Looks like I need to get some apple sauce and get stung a few times. :doh: I still have the nakkid mystic but I tasted a bit of Vantage sauce.....and it tasted sweeeeeeeeeet. But I also heard that tech will redo the connie which (after the Tribute) is their best bow ever made. Heard that it was made for target archers by target archers and it's not just a stretched hunting bow any more. :zip: Triathlon season is over and it's time to get serious. :tongue:


So which HOYT are you getting???


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## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> So which HOYT are you getting???


depends on if anyone wants to trade their apple basket for a Mystical bow. Are you interested??


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## Bees

itchyfinger said:


> depends on if anyone wants to trade their apple basket for a Mystical bow. Are you interested??


What's the draw length and poundage and what cam system.


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## Brown Hornet

Furious with M mods...45-60 maybe 40-55 depending on which limbs Jake sent....


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## itchyfinger

Brown Hornet said:


> Furious with M mods...45-60 maybe 40-55 depending on which limbs Jake sent....


I think they are 45-60's. I have it set at 55 and there is alot of screw left. I need to back it off alittle.....my shoulder is gimpy. Best part about it.....not a speck of paint on it. Completely Nakkid! :tongue: I blank baled it a bit last night, (it's been awhile!) you sent me a good one Hornet.  Having trouble getting the cams timed but it's hard when you don't have a press :doh:  For those wondering about Proline strings.....I put them on some time in the beginning of the year....have not touched the bow for at least 6 months....peep has not moved. :darkbeer:


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## mdbowhunter

*My $0.02 worth.....*

IMHO Bowtech makes a fine bow...but their product focus is hunting and 3-D. After all, that is the biggest piece in the overall archery pie. It doesn't mean certain Bowtech bows can't be used...or won't work for Field archery...it just isn't their forte. 

The older companies like Hoyt and Martin have kept a tradition of providing bow models for many types of shooting. They continue to design and improve models for the 'classic' target archer (FITA or Field). So, I think it comes down to the desired market a company wants to attract...and a bit of history and tradition.


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## railmitt

*brands*



Bees said:


> what? let's see I report what I see. and others report what they see, and we see about the same and report about the same. Now Bowtec's don't have a strong Presence in field Archery , nor do they have a strong presence in FITA archery, so I report that and I'm biased. good grief you fanboys are impossible.
> 
> As far as the Advertisment slogan get Serious Get a Hoyt. That is just pure great advertiseing and if you don't like it then see a shrink or something because there is something seriously wrong.
> 
> Never have I or anyone else implied other bow companies are not serious, but they don't have the catchy slogan.
> 
> Just to rub a bit more, check the what is wrong with hoyt thread in gen pop.
> Can't deny hoyt is on top of the spot world right now.


I was only pointing out that just because you think hoyt is the best DON'T mean that BOWTECH is junk, an I'm not on a power trip, or a fanboy. If you have enough money,[ to buy the best equipment-an by the best equipment I mean the best for you- or to see what the best equipment for you is, or time to practice] of course your scores are going to go up regardless of brand.PERIOD.


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## Bees

railmitt said:


> I was only pointing out that just because you think hoyt is the best DON'T mean that BOWTECH is junk, an I'm not on a power trip, or a fanboy. If you have enough money,[ to buy the best equipment-an by the best equipment I mean the best for you- or to see what the best equipment for you is, or time to practice] of course your scores are going to go up regardless of brand.PERIOD.


Where in the world did I ever say bowtec was Junk? :noidea:

I said I don't see a strong bowtec presence in Field or FITA archery. 

good god man how in the heck did you interpret bowtec is junk out of that??

Most Fanboys are in denial about being a Fanboy... If any comments about a bow manufacture gets you on the defensive, chances are your a FANBOY..


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## Brown Hornet

Bees said:


> Where in the world did I ever say bowtec was Junk? :noidea:
> 
> I said I don't see a strong bowtec presence in Field or FITA archery.
> 
> good god man how in the heck did you interpret bowtec is junk out of that??
> 
> Most Fanboys are in denial about being a Fanboy... If any comments about a bow manufacture gets you on the defensive, chances are your a FANBOY..


I was kind of wondering the same thing.... I see Blowies are still over sensitive :chortle: did you see the thread in Gen Pop about Hoyt? Nobody even mentioned another company before people started getting upset :chortle:

Heck I bet people have read this thread and didn't even realize they were in the field forum :chortle:


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## itchyfinger

Brown Hornet said:


> I was kind of wondering the same thing.... I see Blowies are still over sensitive :chortle: did you see the thread in Gen Pop about Hoyt? Nobody even mentioned another company before people started getting upset :chortle:
> 
> Heck I bet people have read this thread and didn't even realize they were in the field forum :chortle:


:noidea:  :whoo:


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## Bees

two pages and people are putting words in my mouth. 

Icheyfinger must be proud.. who let him on here anyway??? :


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## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> two pages and people are putting words in my mouth.
> 
> Icheyfinger must be proud.. who let him on here anyway??? :


Now that all you wild outdoor types have come back INside from the heat and I have shifted back INto archery mode.........WHY NOT!!!! :tongue: Bowtech's are meat bows......Kinda like a Benelli Nova....yeah....it's a good gun and it gets the job done......BUT.....You are still taking home a Nova. :wink: UNLESS the target bow that I heard Bowtech is coming with is everything I heard it will be.....there might be some eyebrows raised in the target world.


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## Bees

itchyfinger said:


> Now that all you wild outdoor types have come back INside from the heat and I have shifted back INto archery mode.........WHY NOT!!!! :tongue: Bowtech's are meat bows......Kinda like a Benelli Nova....yeah....it's a good gun and it gets the job done......BUT.....You are still taking home a Nova. :wink: UNLESS the target bow that I heard Bowtech is coming with is everything I heard it will be.....there might be some eyebrows raised in the target world.


so what have you heard?? 

If it has those aggressive binary cams on it I know who won't be trying it.
My Old shoulders just can't take that cam system.. :embara:


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## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> so what have you heard??
> 
> If it has those aggressive binary cams on it I know who won't be trying it.
> My Old shoulders just can't take that cam system.. :embara:


I heard......deflex riser, 38" ATA with a high BH, dual & single cam options (circular mods on the dual)......solid limbs. Totally redesigned riser. I was told to think connie but a "real" target bow with feedback and feel. Geared to be a crossover bow for those foamers wanting to shoot the same setup at paper. They want to be on the line with the BIG boys, they think this bow will get them there.


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## Bees

itchyfinger said:


> I heard......deflex riser, 38" ATA with a high BH, dual & single cam options (circular mods on the dual)......solid limbs. Totally redesigned riser. I was told to think connie but a "real" target bow with feedback and feel. Geared to be a crossover bow for those foamers wanting to shoot the same setup at paper. They want to be on the line with the BIG boys, they think this bow will get them there.


Hmmm. 
keeping up with the big boy is no easy task
Mathews thought they had it with the Apex and the other one that started with a C. 
Martin thought they had it with the S4
PSE thought they had it with MoneyMaker

Time will tell if Bowtec has it or not..


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## south-paaw

itchyfinger said:


> :noidea:  :whoo:





PHP:




classic hit-and-run from a junkyard junkie.... heheheeeee..


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## Brown Hornet

Bees said:


> two pages and people are putting words in my mouth.
> 
> Icheyfinger must be proud.. who let him on here anyway??? :


He is....and I have a text message to prove it :zip:



itchyfinger said:


> Now that all you wild outdoor types have come back INside from the heat and I have shifted back INto archery mode.........WHY NOT!!!! :tongue: Bowtech's are meat bows......Kinda like a Benelli Nova....yeah....it's a good gun and it gets the job done......BUT.....You are still taking home a Nova. :wink: UNLESS the target bow that I heard Bowtech is coming with is everything I heard it will be.....there might be some eyebrows raised in the target world.


unless they grab some big names.....it isn't gonna make anymore of a splash then the others have made in the target world....and you can take that to the bank :wink:


----------



## JayMc

Bees said:


> Hmmm.
> keeping up with the big boy is no easy task
> Mathews thought they had it with the Apex and the other one that started with a C.
> Martin thought they had it with the S4
> PSE thought they had it with MoneyMaker
> 
> Time will tell if Bowtec has it or not..


I can assure you that there won't be much of a shift to Bowtech in the pro ranks if they don't start a contingency program. 

I've seen ONE in the shootdowns at all of the ASAs I've attended and I'm pretty sure she moved to another sponsor after her first year as a pro.


----------



## Bees

JayMc said:


> I can assure you that there won't be much of a shift to Bowtech in the pro ranks if they don't start a contingency program.
> 
> I've seen ONE in the shootdowns at all of the ASAs I've attended and I'm pretty sure she moved to another sponsor after her first year as a pro.


I seem to remember a Woman winning an ASA event with a Bowtec, and always wondered why I never heard about her winning anymore with it. 

A Senior Pro once told me If he ever did win he wanted to be shooting a bow that would pay. So he left his Bowtec at home and went with a Mathews. 


Well at any rate the spec's Itchy stated in his posts are right to fit a good amount of shooters, Same Specs as an older Protec, wonder why that is??? :zip: :

Ya know if a company was smart they would contact Hoyt and get permission to built the Discontinued Protec and Ultratec and offer a selection of different cam options
custom built to archers spec's. Heck maybe the Chineese will do it :


----------



## railmitt

*brands*



Bees said:


> Where in the world did I ever say bowtec was Junk? :noidea:
> 
> I said I don't see a strong bowtec presence in Field or FITA archery.
> 
> good god man how in the heck did you interpret bowtec is junk out of that??
> 
> Most Fanboys are in denial about being a Fanboy... If any comments about a bow manufacture gets you on the defensive, chances are your a FANBOY..


I just misunderstood what you were saying is all,yes I do like my bowtech but I think all bows have a place. I use to shoot a PSE an it's a good bow too.Not a fanboy, no hype, not a glory or attention hound or anything else, just throwing out my opinion same as you.


----------



## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> I seem to remember a Woman winning an ASA event with a Bowtec, and always wondered why I never heard about her winning anymore with it.
> 
> A Senior Pro once told me If he ever did win he wanted to be shooting a bow that would pay. So he left his Bowtec at home and went with a Mathews.
> 
> 
> Well at any rate the spec's Itchy stated in his posts are right to fit a good amount of shooters, Same Specs as an older Protec, wonder why that is??? :zip: :
> 
> Ya know if a company was smart they would contact Hoyt and get permission to built the Discontinued Protec and Ultratec and offer a selection of different cam options
> custom built to archers spec's. Heck maybe the Chineese will do it :



Well, in so many words they are seeing that void left by the pro/ultra tec going the way of the roller guard...oh wait......:doh: Anyway......people want those specs but don't want a 40+ inch ATA uber target only rig.......a stretched hunting rig is just a stretched hunting rig. The Pro/Ultra elites are right on the money spec wise BUT some people are put off by the shoot through risers......SOOOOOOOO it seems that the company that can really pull off a bow like this would stand to gain some market share. You can agree or not but Hoyt has a strangle hold on the target world (and for good reason). People want a mid weight, straight/deflexed bow that has alot of EASY adjustability (for tweaking) and does not cost a mint. The S4 has the adjustability but it's too light and very twitchy, the mathews are just a little dead feeling and not easily adjustable and many want a dual cam, bowtechs are just stretched meat bows and are too dead for target archers, the moneymaker is just plain ugly and when people think PSE they think wal-mart bows (but it looks like they are breaking that stigma). So who is gonna fill this void left by the Pro/Ultra tec's???


----------



## USNarcher

Bees said:


> Look, I don't care how it sits with ya, Must be something to it because I see a lot of hoyts out there and not many bowtec's. Fact of life.
> 
> Now I know one shooter, she carries a 540 field average and she shoots a bowtec. She is the only one I see doing any good with the brand.
> 
> Other top shooters, I see a few use PSE's , A couple use Mathews,
> One Pro use's I think its a bowman but far and away Hoyts are more popular.
> that's what I see, ya don't like it.. tuff...
> 
> went to FITA shoot samething Some Win&Win but Hoyts had a strong showing. I don't think FITA shooters even think Bowtec.


Come shoot with me Bees.:shade:


----------



## Brown Hornet

All you guys stuck on the old Pro Tecs and Ultra Tecs....which is beyond me how you could be put off by a more solid feeling and aiming bow :noidea:...seem to always forget about the 737 which pretty much an upgraded UT and the 38 Pr0 which is an upgraded PT :wink:

I loved my Pro Tecs and Ultra Tecs....I had 4 Pros and I think 4 Ultras over the years....no way I would go to one of those after shooting the Elites. I wish they would make a Katera XLish bow with an Elite riser


----------



## itchyfinger

Brown Hornet said:


> All you guys stuck on the old Pro Tecs and Ultra Tecs....which is beyond me how you could be put off by a more solid feeling and aiming bow :noidea:...seem to always forget about the 737 which pretty much an upgraded UT and the 38 Pr0 which is an upgraded PT :wink:
> 
> I loved my Pro Tecs and Ultra Tecs....I had 4 Pros and I think 4 Ultras over the years....no way I would go to one of those after shooting the Elites. I wish they would make a Katera XLish bow with an Elite riser


How awesome would it be if someone made a bow with a roller guard, pro38 ATA & BH, Katera geometery and true dual cams.


----------



## Brown Hornet

Some of my comments aren't fit for posting so I will send you a text :wink:

If a roller gaurd was the ticket....Hoyt would have one already...it's a gimmick. 

Dual cams....I'll stay with hybrids. Better system IMO....


----------



## itchyfinger

Brown Hornet said:


> Some of my comments aren't fit for posting so I will send you a text :wink:
> 
> If a roller gaurd was the ticket....Hoyt would have one already...it's a gimmick.
> 
> Dual cams....I'll stay with hybrids. Better system IMO....


Look....just because you are gonna lose this weekend does not mean you need to cap on roller guards .....you know they are not gimmicks.....Take it back! 

I will agree that I prefer single cams and hybrids over duals. I like the way they roll over better. I have never owned a hybrid cam'd bow and I like them better. I'm having some bow envy right now........


----------



## Bees

USNarcher said:


> Come shoot with me Bees.:shade:


 So if I did would you be the second Archer, I would have seen shoot a bowtec and actually score well with it???? Because 2 isn't many..


----------



## leecountyarcher

cptbrain said:


> Sorry, couldn't resist, but I think Hoyt is the bow of choice for poachers. This based on the un-scientific fact that most of the bows sold at the DNR auction (IL DNR) were Hoyt's. :darkbeer:


that just means hoyts are popular not that they are a poachers bow?


----------



## Brown Hornet

itchyfinger said:


> Look....just because you are gonna lose this weekend does not mean you need to cap on roller guards .....you know they are not gimmicks.....Take it back!
> 
> I will agree that I prefer single cams and hybrids over duals. I like the way they roll over better. I have never owned a hybrid cam'd bow and I like them better. I'm having some bow envy right now........


My C2s are smoother then any of the duallies out there in the past 5 years....


----------



## USNarcher

Bees said:


> So if I did would you be the second Archer, I would have seen shoot a bowtec and actually score well with it???? Because 2 isn't many..


Bees there are plenty of reasons that you are so right. Especially those shooting an 09. But heck I've been told that I don't shoot that good anyway.

I am looking forward to trying some different bows over the winter. Hoyts are definately at the top of the list. But I still haven't shot one that scored better than my 08 Commander. And the B-stinger XL made that shoot even better. I am really looking forward to Redding and Darrington next year.


----------



## WrongdayJ

itchyfinger said:


> . . .People want a mid weight, straight/deflexed bow that has alot of EASY adjustability (for tweaking) and does not cost a mint. . .





itchyfinger said:


> . . .The S4 has the adjustability but it's too light and very twitchy. . .
> . . .the mathews are just a little dead feeling and not easily adjustable and many want a dual cam. . .
> . . .bowtechs are just stretched meat bows and are too dead for target archers. . .
> . . .the moneymaker is just plain ugly and when people think PSE they think wal-mart bows (but it looks like they are breaking that stigma). . .


Hmm. :zip:


----------



## Bees

> moneymaker is just plain ugly


no it isn't, I shoot with a few PSE shooters and they are all A and AA class shooters. Tony is a solid A class shooter seems to always be somewhere in the 530's with his money maker. Justin is dissapointed with a 552 and he shoots an X force 35 inch axel to axel with a 6 inch brace height. The other one ain't shooting his PSE too much since Justin beat him so much.

and If I remember right even Prag scored better with his PSE than he has with his S4.. 

so come on out Itchyfinger and I'll take you too these guys and they will beat you with thier ugly sticks...


----------



## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> no it isn't, I shoot with a few PSE shooters and they are all A and AA class shooters. Tony is a solid A class shooter seems to always be somewhere in the 530's with his money maker. Justin is dissapointed with a 552 and he shoots an X force 35 inch axel to axel with a 6 inch brace height. The other one ain't shooting his PSE too much since Justin beat him so much.
> 
> and If I remember right even Prag scored better with his PSE than he has with his S4..
> 
> so come on out Itchyfinger and I'll take you too these guys and they will beat you with thier ugly sticks...


Look I've been beaten by lesser archer with lesser bows so this is not about my (lack of) shooting ability.....And I personally like the look of the money maker....I'm speaking in broader terms here.........Does not excuse hoyt from destroying all comers and Bowtech trying to get a piece of that fat...Xpounding....pie.


----------



## itchyfinger

WrongdayJ said:


> Hmm. :zip:


Now that we all know that you can use the quote feature very well.....what's on your mind......Become part of the debate....don't be "that" guy  Was anything you quoted strike you as false?


----------



## itchyfinger

Brown Hornet said:


> My C2s are smoother then any of the duallies out there in the past 5 years....


There is no question about that. C2's on a PE are something awesome. Put a roller guard on it and you have something special.


----------



## JayMc

itchyfinger said:


> There is no question about that. C2's on a PE are something awesome. Put a roller guard on it and you have something special.


I'm curious as to why you love the roller guard so much. It's handy on a hunting bow IMO, but doesn't really add anything (in fact it detracts) on a target bow.


----------



## itchyfinger

JayMc said:


> I'm curious as to why you love the roller guard so much. It's handy on a hunting bow IMO, but doesn't really add anything (in fact it detracts) on a target bow.


You don't need a reason to be awesome. Cable slides.....meh.....not as awesome.


----------



## Bees

JayMc said:


> I'm curious as to why you love the roller guard so much. It's handy on a hunting bow IMO, but doesn't really add anything (in fact it detracts) on a target bow.


Bowtec could put roller blades on it, their piece of the pie ain't gettin any bigger.. :


----------



## Metrodix

Bees said:


> apparently your the only one.
> 
> I have noticed over here when they finally got serious about hitting the dot, *most of them got a Hoyt*... :darkbeer: :secret:


Oh, I see, that is the reason why I beat all the guys with my Elite XLR.


----------



## Bees

Metrodix said:


> Oh, I see, that is the reason why I beat all the guys with my Elite XLR.


yea right. bring it up here and see if you can say the same thing on your departure. 
I have never seen anyone shoot an Elite up here. Of all the AT reported shooters of this brand I have yet to see anyone packing it around a field coarse. I know what the people that win these events up here are shooting and it isn't Bowtec and it isn't Elite.


----------



## VA Vince

Bees said:


> yea right. bring it up here and see if you can say the same thing on your departure.
> I have never seen anyone shoot an Elite up here. Of all the AT reported shooters of this brand I have yet to see anyone packing it around a field coarse. I know what the people that win these events up here are shooting and it isn't Bowtec and it isn't Elite.


WRONG! How about Timmy Ewers.......


----------



## WrongdayJ

itchyfinger said:


> . . .Become part of the debate. . .Was anything you quoted strike you as false?. . .


Actually- I was part of the debate, I just chose to stop and think a bit more about the arguments being presented. 

To answer your question about whether I thought anything I quoted before was false. . .well. . .in a word, yes. I do not want this to seem like a personal attack, because it isn't- it's never personal with me. I have shot all of the bows you mentioned extensively and found none of them to match the description you gave. I am not a pro shooter, though, and may not be as sensitive to the bows nuances as others. But I do know what I feel, and I did not find an S4 to be twitchy, and the Drenalin and Reezen are anything but 'dead' feeling to me. The Moneymaker comment may be the only part I couldn't disagree with totally. . .some of the colors took some getting used to for me. PSE a Wal-mart bow? Hmm. Maybe in your part of the country, but on this coast, they are held in much higher regard. In fact, in the 3D venue here. . .PSE is the dominator. I see more X-forces at the range when all the 3D guys come to practice than you can shake a stick at. I know we aren't talking about 3D here, but alot of the same guys shoot Field here too. 

Now. . .this question is not really a disagreement, more of a need for clairifcation from the Archery community at large. What is a 'meat bow'? I generally think I understand the term, but shouldn't a bow that is good enough to harvest an animal be good enough to shoot a spot? Why would we expect (or settle for) any less than equal performance from a hunting bow? Seems to me like we would expect MORE from a hunting bow than from a target rig. The comment- they aren't that great, they're just a streched meat bow is either an insult to the manufacturer, or an insult to anyone that hunts with a Bowtech. Personally, I have several friends who are acomplished 3D and hunters who will shoot nothing but Bowtechs. . .and they are quite good at shooting spots with their meat-bows. 

I just don't understand the arguement of meat-bow vs. spot-bow.


----------



## Bees

VA Vince said:


> WRONG! How about Timmy Ewers.......


You all just can't read and comprehend,, I said I have never seen, and I have never seen Timmy Ewers What the heck is a Timmy Ewers anyway???? : first I have ever heard of him or she or what ever.. :noidea:


----------



## Jbird

*Bowtec?*

What I want to know is how we managed to let a two page thread about Bowtech get going in the Field Archery forum? Field Archery and Bowtech have no connection in my mind. I mean does anyone that frequents this forum even care what Bowtech brings out in 2010?
Jbird


----------



## Bees

WrongdayJ said:


> Actually- I was part of the debate, I just chose to stop and think a bit more about the arguments being presented.
> 
> To answer your question about whether I thought anything I quoted before was false. . .well. . .in a word, yes. I do not want this to seem like a personal attack, because it isn't- it's never personal with me. I have shot all of the bows you mentioned extensively and found none of them to match the description you gave. I am not a pro shooter, though, and may not be as sensitive to the bows nuances as others. But I do know what I feel, and I did not find an S4 to be twitchy, and the Drenalin and Reezen are anything but 'dead' feeling to me. The Moneymaker comment may be the only part I couldn't disagree with totally. . .some of the colors took some getting used to for me. PSE a Wal-mart bow? Hmm. Maybe in your part of the country, but on this coast, they are held in much higher regard. In fact, in the 3D venue here. . .PSE is the dominator. I see more X-forces at the range when all the 3D guys come to practice than you can shake a stick at. I know we aren't talking about 3D here, but alot of the same guys shoot Field here too.
> 
> Now. . .this question is not really a disagreement, more of a need for clairifcation from the Archery community at large. What is a 'meat bow'? I generally think I understand the term, but shouldn't a bow that is good enough to harvest an animal be good enough to shoot a spot? Why would we expect (or settle for) any less than equal performance from a hunting bow? Seems to me like we would expect MORE from a hunting bow than from a target rig. The comment- they aren't that great, they're just a streched meat bow is either an insult to the manufacturer, or an insult to anyone that hunts with a Bowtech. Personally, I have several friends who are acomplished 3D and hunters who will shoot nothing but Bowtechs. . .and they are quite good at shooting spots with their meat-bows.
> 
> I just don't understand the arguement of meat-bow vs. spot-bow.


And there isn't any difference between them, It's just Itchy stirring the pot..
be careful you don't fall into the Pot and get cooked. :

Itchy must be proud.....


----------



## Bees

Jbird said:


> What I want to know is how we managed to let a two page thread about Bowtech get going in the Field Archery forum? Field Archery and Bowtech have no connection in my mind. I mean does anyone that frequents this forum even care what Bowtech brings out in 2010?
> Jbird


J see post #76...


----------



## shoeminator

Not sure if this was brought up or not yet, didn't take time to read the whole thread, but in the Women's Unlimited Compound division this year at the Archery World Cup Championships, the gal from Russia, shooting a Bowtech, took the Gold. They must shoot well enough.


----------



## archerpap

shoeminator said:


> Not sure if this was brought up or not yet, didn't take time to read the whole thread, but in the Women's Unlimited Compound division this year at the Archery World Cup Championships, the gal from Russia, shooting a Bowtech, took the Gold. They must shoot well enough.


But YOU switched from a Blowie to a Hoyt. what was your reason????


----------



## Bees

shoeminator said:


> Not sure if this was brought up or not yet, didn't take time to read the whole thread, but in the Women's Unlimited Compound division this year at the Archery World Cup Championships, the gal from Russia, shooting a Bowtech, took the Gold. They must shoot well enough.


No one has said the bows didn't shot well it only has pointed out most people don't choose them for field/fita. My God you fan boys are defensive.... :mg:


----------



## Bees

archerpap said:


> But YOU switched from a Blowie to a Hoyt. what was your reason????


Well shoeminator we are waiting for the reason. :noidea: why would he switch???

Page three Itchy has outdone himself...


----------



## itchyfinger

WrongdayJ said:


> Actually- I was part of the debate, I just chose to stop and think a bit more about the arguments being presented.
> 
> To answer your question about whether I thought anything I quoted before was false. . .well. . .in a word, yes. I do not want this to seem like a personal attack, because it isn't- it's never personal with me. I have shot all of the bows you mentioned extensively and found none of them to match the description you gave. I am not a pro shooter, though, and may not be as sensitive to the bows nuances as others. But I do know what I feel, and I did not find an S4 to be twitchy, and the Drenalin and Reezen are anything but 'dead' feeling to me. The Moneymaker comment may be the only part I couldn't disagree with totally. . .some of the colors took some getting used to for me. PSE a Wal-mart bow? Hmm. Maybe in your part of the country, but on this coast, they are held in much higher regard. In fact, in the 3D venue here. . .PSE is the dominator. I see more X-forces at the range when all the 3D guys come to practice than you can shake a stick at. I know we aren't talking about 3D here, but alot of the same guys shoot Field here too.
> 
> Now. . .this question is not really a disagreement, more of a need for clairifcation from the Archery community at large. What is a 'meat bow'? I generally think I understand the term, but shouldn't a bow that is good enough to harvest an animal be good enough to shoot a spot? Why would we expect (or settle for) any less than equal performance from a hunting bow? Seems to me like we would expect MORE from a hunting bow than from a target rig. The comment- they aren't that great, they're just a streched meat bow is either an insult to the manufacturer, or an insult to anyone that hunts with a Bowtech. Personally, I have several friends who are acomplished 3D and hunters who will shoot nothing but Bowtechs. . .and they are quite good at shooting spots with their meat-bows.
> 
> I just don't understand the arguement of meat-bow vs. spot-bow.


This post has WAAAAAAAY to much mention of "hunting/meat" bows....I request that this post be moved to the hunting or at least the 3D forum and disregarded by the jury. This is a freaking field forum for crying out loud.

The Drenalin is the worse bow I have ever shot....ever. The Reezen is alittle better but not much.......And those are both "meat" bows....as in they are geared for the hunting first crowd. They are NOT the apex or apex7. Meat bow = Hunting bow. We are talking about target specific models....not target colored meat bows. They ARE just stretched meat bows for HUNTERS that like a longer ATA. They are NOT target specific bows....They were not made with ME in mind....the Apex was however.....so let's stay on point.

Who's insulting Bowtech....go back and check it....I never insulted the manufacturer OR anyone that shoots one. 

PSE IS a wal-mart bow....that Nova package is a pretty good deal and my friend Shane had one before he got his Zmax and I got my MQ32. Not capping on it...just stating a fact.

And what's this "part of your country" crap.......you gots sumptin aginst us cajun folk like dat? 

The reason you see so many Xforces on the range is because people think speed = accuracy. It's a macho thing that me or my shoulders are not into. you did say 3D...we are in the field forum...

S4's are twitchy..I had one in the traditional setup and you gonna tell me that a deflexed bow with recurve limbs is NOT twitchy.....you must have shock eaters hangin all over that bow. I swapped over to 16" straight limbs and nitrous X cams.(hornet edition S4 )..now THAT was a rig.....but that's not a stock bow so it don't count.

Look bows are bows and they all shoot good in the right hands.......But I'm more interested in target models that's why I wanted to hear about bowtech's TARGET line (in the target/field section) and how I heard they have something coming that will be a small breakthrough for them in this market..... 

And why the long response if it's not personal? What's the deal..you have a target colored Commander under your bed??


----------



## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> Well shoeminator we are waiting for the reason. :noidea: why would he switch???
> 
> Page three Itchy has outdone himself...


It's a gift really.....


----------



## Beastmaster

I don't understand the want to have a different bow for field, another for paper, and another for 3D.

I use the same bow for paper and foam. Makes no difference. I just grab the sight mark cards and the proper arrows and off I go.

If you're truly gonna get good at shooting a bow, make it the same one to do everything you want to do.

And yes, I did shoot a PSE as a primary bow before August. Got two wins with it too. I can't say that my Bow Madness XL is a Wally World special there.....

-Steve


----------



## Beastmaster

itchyfinger said:


> The reason you see so many Xforces on the range is because people think speed = accuracy. It's a macho thing that me or my shoulders are not into. you did say 3D...we are in the field forum...


Gee, if I was shooting the unmarked portion of a NFAA field (like the 2009 Arizona State Field competition that's later this month), I'd prefer a fast bow that shoots relatively flat so that I don't have to worry about too many sight issues. One pin for a wider variety of ranges = easier time shooting. 

And yes, I know there's a 60# draw limit, but still - I'd prefer a faster bow at 60# than a slower one.

IMHO, the same principle applies for both 3D and Field - faster will help you.

-Steve


----------



## WrongdayJ

Ok Itchy- I think I get where you are coming from now.

The long reply was because what I was responding to was lengthy, not because it's personal bro. It's hard to articulate what you are thinking with the written word without coming off abrasive. If we were talking face to face, it would be alot easier I think to get our points across. 

So we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I simply do not believe that the bow makes the archer- or that any one bow (Martin, Hoyt, PSE- any of them) makes you better than you are. A good archer will get a good score regardless of what is in his hand- and a so-so archer will get a so-so score.

Case in point- My cousin shot a 532 with (what you termed a wal-mart PSE) Nova. I also shot with a man on another range two months ago who shot a personal best 546 with a Drenalin. My cousin was using a Doinker Stab and the older guy with the Drenalin was running a Posten Stab. Not exotic equipment by any means. . .but not bad either. 

I've just seen to many people shoot great scores with all different makes and even configurations (like recurve) to believe that the bow makes that much difference. Would you agree with the statement, "The best bow is the one you like and feel comfortable with. That does not mean that the best bow *to you *is the best bow in the world."

As far as the target colored Commander. . .um. . .Do they have one in Silver Metallic?


----------



## Metrodix

Bees said:


> yea right. bring it up here and see if you can say the same thing on your departure.
> I have never seen anyone shoot an Elite up here. Of all the AT reported shooters of this brand I have yet to see anyone packing it around a field coarse. I know what the people that win these events up here are shooting and it isn't Bowtec and it isn't Elite.


The archery industry is often plagued by a "better than your bow" mentality - as brand loyalty seems to often get out of hand. 
Some bow manufacturers even seem to develop a cult-like following of shooters - who'll openly malign any other brand of bows 
(just visit an online archery forum). This is unfortunate for beginning archers who could receive one-sided brand-x advice - 
which may or may not lead to a good bow purchasing decision. So beware of any advice declaring one type or brand of bow to 
be "the best". Imagine being told that a Subaru, for example, is "the best" kind of car - and that every other brand was totally inferior. 
Ridiculous right? The Subaru is certainly a fine automobile, but it's not appropriate or practical for everyone. 
There are many other high quality brands and models you could choose from. The same is true for compound bows. 
The Point: There is no "best" brand or "best" type of compound bow, so don't barricade yourself in too deeply on any particular 
bow manufacturer's ranch. The bow that is best for you is the bow that best fits your purpose, your size and strength, 
your shooting style, your skill level, and your budget.


----------



## itchyfinger

Beastmaster said:


> I don't understand the want to have a different bow for field, another for paper, and another for 3D.
> 
> I use the same bow for paper and foam. Makes no difference. I just grab the sight mark cards and the proper arrows and off I go.
> 
> If you're truly gonna get good at shooting a bow, make it the same one to do everything you want to do.
> 
> And yes, I did shoot a PSE as a primary bow before August. Got two wins with it too. I can't say that my Bow Madness XL is a Wally World special there.....
> 
> -Steve


OK....Academy/Cabelas/Box Store special.  Guys relax! I love PSE!! I'm only making general statements about the John Q Public...I'm more informed than the next guy/gal....if a Moneymaker fell to me for a good price you better believe I would take it. I'm like you, I want a one trick pony.....But not for foam....I want one bow for all SPOTS.


----------



## itchyfinger

Beastmaster said:


> Gee, if I was shooting the unmarked portion of a NFAA field (like the 2009 Arizona State Field competition that's later this month), I'd prefer a fast bow that shoots relatively flat so that I don't have to worry about too many sight issues. One pin for a wider variety of ranges = easier time shooting.
> 
> And yes, I know there's a 60# draw limit, but still - I'd prefer a faster bow at 60# than a slower one.
> 
> IMHO, the same principle applies for both 3D and Field - faster will help you.
> 
> -Steve


So you are saying speed = accuracy. How could I miss that? :doh: Oh yeah....I don't shoot pins or 3D.


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## itchyfinger

WrongdayJ said:


> Ok Itchy- I think I get where you are coming from now.
> 
> The long reply was because what I was responding to was lengthy, not because it's personal bro. It's hard to articulate what you are thinking with the written word without coming off abrasive. If we were talking face to face, it would be alot easier I think to get our points across.
> 
> So we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I simply do not believe that the bow makes the archer- or that any one bow (Martin, Hoyt, PSE- any of them) makes you better than you are. A good archer will get a good score regardless of what is in his hand- and a so-so archer will get a so-so score.
> 
> Case in point- My cousin shot a 532 with (what you termed a wal-mart PSE) Nova. I also shot with a man on another range two months ago who shot a personal best 546 with a Drenalin. My cousin was using a Doinker Stab and the older guy with the Drenalin was running a Posten Stab. Not exotic equipment by any means. . .but not bad either.
> 
> I've just seen to many people shoot great scores with all different makes and even configurations (like recurve) to believe that the bow makes that much difference. Would you agree with the statement, "The best bow is the one you like and feel comfortable with. That does not mean that the best bow *to you *is the best bow in the world."
> 
> As far as the target colored Commander. . .um. . .Do they have one in Silver Metallic?


You lie....you know you do!!! You have the mark of a classic fanboy!  :secret: (mine does not have any paint on it)

Back to topic.....This new TARGET model from bowtech will really be something. Was talking with a friend in the know.....says it gonna spoil some apples this year...but I think Hoyt has too many apples in the hands of too many archers for them to make a REAL difference. Rollerguard or not.


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## itchyfinger

Metrodix said:


> The archery industry is often plagued by a "better than your bow" mentality - as brand loyalty seems to often get out of hand.
> Some bow manufacturers even seem to develop a cult-like following of shooters - who'll openly malign any other brand of bows
> (just visit an online archery forum). This is unfortunate for beginning archers who could receive one-sided brand-x advice -
> which may or may not lead to a good bow purchasing decision. So beware of any advice declaring one type or brand of bow to
> be "the best". Imagine being told that a Subaru, for example, is "the best" kind of car - and that every other brand was totally inferior.
> Ridiculous right? The Subaru is certainly a fine automobile, but it's not appropriate or practical for everyone.
> There are many other high quality brands and models you could choose from. The same is true for compound bows.
> The Point: There is no "best" brand or "best" type of compound bow, so don't barricade yourself in too deeply on any particular
> bow manufacturer's ranch. The bow that is best for you is the bow that best fits your purpose, your size and strength,
> your shooting style, your skill level, and your budget.


Ok...Look....you are making waaaay to much sense....I request the above statement be moved to Gen Pop and be stricken from the record.


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## DHawk2

My first target bow was an 05 Bowtech Constitution,I loved it and shot my first (and only) 300 with it. I sold it and got a Pro Elite with 3500 limbs, even though I shot it pretty good with the draw being too long I sold it. I got a Commander and really didn't give it a good chance before selling it. Ended up buying a new Vantage Pro and haven't looked back...well I did concider selling it and getting a Vantage Elite but stayed with the Pro. 
Bowtech is more into the hunting side of archery but even with the Constitution and the model that replaced it, I think that they could be on the right track with a target bow.


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## mdbowhunter

Jbird said:


> What I want to know is how we managed to let a two page thread about Bowtech get going in the Field Archery forum? Field Archery and Bowtech have no connection in my mind. I mean does anyone that frequents this forum even care what Bowtech brings out in 2010?
> Jbird


Couldn't agree more Jay. I thought the Field Forum was a 'Fanboy Free Zone'! :wink:


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## Bees

Metrodix said:


> The archery industry is often plagued by a "better than your bow" mentality - as brand loyalty seems to often get out of hand.
> Some bow manufacturers even seem to develop a cult-like following of shooters - who'll openly malign any other brand of bows
> (just visit an online archery forum). This is unfortunate for beginning archers who could receive one-sided brand-x advice -
> which may or may not lead to a good bow purchasing decision. So beware of any advice declaring one type or brand of bow to
> be "the best". Imagine being told that a Subaru, for example, is "the best" kind of car - and that every other brand was totally inferior.
> Ridiculous right? The Subaru is certainly a fine automobile, but it's not appropriate or practical for everyone.
> There are many other high quality brands and models you could choose from. The same is true for compound bows.
> The Point: There is no "best" brand or "best" type of compound bow, so don't barricade yourself in too deeply on any particular
> bow manufacturer's ranch. The bow that is best for you is the bow that best fits your purpose, your size and strength,
> your shooting style, your skill level, and your budget.


Good god man go back read everyword that I wrote, no where have I said one bow brand was any better than any other. I simple pointed out that I see a lot of hoyts on a field range around here. what you see in Germany may be different. I mean all those Elites reported in Gen Pop have to be somewhere don't they? Heck Maybe there down South there with ItchyFinger..: :noidea: So bring it and fling it let's see what ya got..:


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## ig25

Bees said:


> Look, I don't care how it sits with ya, Must be something to it because I see a lot of hoyts out there and not many bowtec's. Fact of life.
> 
> Now I know one shooter, she carries a 540 field average and she shoots a bowtec. She is the only one I see doing any good with the brand.
> 
> Other top shooters, I see a few use PSE's , A couple use Mathews,
> One Pro use's I think its a bowman but far and away Hoyts are more popular.
> that's what I see, ya don't like it.. tuff...
> 
> went to FITA shoot samething Some Win&Win but Hoyts had a strong showing. I don't think FITA shooters even think Bowtec.


Bees your one of those guys that sit around waiting to start a fight on the threads. grow up


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## itchyfinger

DHawk2 said:


> My first target bow was an 05 Bowtech Constitution,I loved it and shot my first (and only) 300 with it. I sold it and got a Pro Elite with 3500 limbs, even though I shot it pretty good with the draw being too long I sold it. I got a Commander and really didn't give it a good chance before selling it. Ended up buying a new Vantage Pro and haven't looked back...well I did concider selling it and getting a Vantage Elite but stayed with the Pro.
> Bowtech is more into the hunting side of archery but even with the Constitution and the model that replaced it, I think that they could be on the right track with a target bow.


THIS is what I'm talking about! Exactly! Well said :clap: Bowtech needs this! I'm NOT a bowtech lover....quite the opposite...but there is an opening in the market for something really geared for us spottie types that don't like climbing trees in the winter. I think bowtech more than any other maker has the tools to make this happen. PSE is really knocking on the door also.....But Bowtech's Center track binaries and those rotating mods are freaking awesome! The Brigadier is really close to being a fantastic platform, it's just missing few little things. WE WANT REAL TARGET BOWS!!!!!!! With stupid BH's and stupid ATA's and stupid stiff risers with stupid adjustablity that have a soul. aw screw it....Anyone have an 06 protec with XT 3000 limbs with the wheel and 1/2 they want to get rid of. I'll take it in camo to keep it real.


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## Bees

ig25 said:


> Bees your one of those guys that sit around waiting to start a fight on the threads. grow up


NO I don't sit around and start a fight, did you even read the whole thread??

It started out Itcheyfinger wants a Bowtec target bow.
I said I don't see a lot of Bowtec at the field/FITA shoots I go too. I said most got serious and got a Hoyt.

Well seems that just aggravates the pee out of old J out west, so he buts in and says bla bla bla and tries to put a bunch of words in my mouth which I spit right back out. Same with others that don't like the fact that I see a lot of Hoyt's at the field/FITA shoots I Attend. 

so then some jack in Germany has to boast he beats all the guys with his Elite. So I report I don't see any elites at the field/FITA events I attend.

Well then some other jack says no thats wrong! Timmy Ewers. Never seen him and if he shoots a Elite more power to him.

Then there is you that think I am starting a fight simplely for reporting an observation which is I still see a lot of Hoyt's at the Field shoots I attend.

there that should about sum it up for ya.. 

what have you seen equipment wise at the field shoots that you attend?

or are you just one of those lame passer bys that don't shoot field but think you have to throw your 2 cents in anyway???? 

If I have learned on thing on this thread its: You bowtec people are way to sensitive.. Kinda like the MATHEWS SHEPPLES OF DAYS GONE BY. :


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## Jbird

*Move this Thread*

Maybe we can get BH to move this to the 3-D forum or one of the forums designed for inane conversations. I repeat, who on the field forum cares about any of this crap?


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## Bees

Jbird said:


> Maybe we can get BH to move this to the 3-D forum or one of the forums designed for inane conversations. I repeat, who on the field forum cares about any of this crap?


this one was important to ItchyFinger to see how much havoc he could reek on this forum.. 


Well, I'll get Itchy to start another I hate indoor thread.. ..:


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## Ron Meadows

:set1_fishing::set1_fishing::set1_fishing:


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## Bees

Ron Meadows said:


> :set1_fishing::set1_fishing::set1_fishing:


Exactley Itchy's Hit and Run...


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## knarrly

Jbird said:


> Maybe we can get BH to move this to the 3-D forum or one of the forums designed for inane conversations. I repeat, who on the field forum cares about any of this crap?


Well it made 3 pages on this forum so.................................TTT



did I say that out loud? couldn't help myself.


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## VA Vince

Bees said:


> NO I don't sit around and start a fight, did you even read the whole thread??
> 
> It started out Itcheyfinger wants a Bowtec target bow.
> I said I don't see a lot of Bowtec at the field/FITA shoots I go too. I said most got serious and got a Hoyt.
> 
> Well seems that just aggravates the pee out of old J out west, so he buts in and says bla bla bla and tries to put a bunch of words in my mouth which I spit right back out. Same with others that don't like the fact that I see a lot of Hoyt's at the field/FITA shoots I Attend.
> 
> so then some jack in Germany has to boast he beats all the guys with his Elite. So I report I don't see any elites at the field/FITA events I attend.
> 
> Well then some other jack says no thats wrong! Timmy Ewers. Never seen him and if he shoots a Elite more power to him.
> 
> Then there is you that think I am starting a fight simplely for reporting an observation which is I still see a lot of Hoyt's at the Field shoots I attend.
> 
> there that should about sum it up for ya..
> 
> what have you seen equipment wise at the field shoots that you attend?
> 
> or are you just one of those lame passer bys that don't shoot field but think you have to throw your 2 cents in anyway????
> 
> If I have learned on thing on this thread its: You bowtec people are way to sensitive.. Kinda like the MATHEWS SHEPPLES OF DAYS GONE BY. :


You better watch who your calling a JackAzz, you dont know me slick! YOU stated you havent seen an elite out in your area. I was telling you there here in Virginia!


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## Bees

VA Vince said:


> You better watch who your calling a JackAzz, you dont know me slick! YOU stated you havent seen an elite out in your area. I was telling you there here in Virginia!


Your still putting words in there I didn't write or say. Everyone on this forum these days seems to have a problem with that. I can't see Virgina from Maryland, so I got no Idea what you may have seen equipment wise down there. And you don't know me either and I call everyone Jack.. I used to call them Ray but I switched to Jack just for the heck of it. :


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## montigre

"Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble......" :zip:


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## Ode1891

Bees said:


> Your still putting words in there I didn't write or say. Everyone on this forum these days seems to have a problem with that. I can't see Virgina from Maryland, so I got no Idea what you may have seen equipment wise down there. And you don't know me either and I call everyone Jack.. I used to call them Ray but I switched to Jack just for the heck of it. :


Bees is justa' buzzin around here.............


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## Bees

Ode1891 said:


> Bees is justa' buzzin around here.............


Ode1891 Long time no see. 
I'm conducting a test on what you can write down and how people perceive the meaning when they read it. so far it's been a real eye opener. You going to shoot indoor? or just hunt??


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## itchyfinger

Jbird said:


> Maybe we can get BH to move this to the 3-D forum or one of the forums designed for inane conversations. I repeat, who on the field forum cares about any of this crap?


This is the most action this forum has seen in a while....come on J insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.....this thread is not.........wait.....oh yeah it is.....:doh:


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## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> Exactley Itchy's Hit and Run...


me? :noidea: I'm just trying to comfirm that ol Tech is gonna make a run this year....on bows and possible high profile shooters. I think all the lessons they learned from Savage will start paying off soon. :secret:


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## itchyfinger

montigre said:


> "Double, double toil and trouble;
> Fire burn, and cauldron bubble......" :zip:


This is not archery related....I ask it be moved to the campfire  MacBeth is not sutiable for some in here. Well maybe not.....it might take seeing the Ghost of Banquo for some to realize that mystical archery forces are at work here. :wink:


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## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> NO I don't sit around and start a fight, did you even read the whole thread??
> 
> It started out Itcheyfinger wants a Bowtec target bow.
> I said I don't see a lot of Bowtec at the field/FITA shoots I go too. I said most got serious and got a Hoyt.
> Well seems that just aggravates the pee out of old J out west, so he buts in and says bla bla bla and tries to put a bunch of words in my mouth which I spit right back out. Same with others that don't like the fact that I see a lot of Hoyt's at the field/FITA shoots I Attend.
> 
> so then some jack in Germany has to boast he beats all the guys with his Elite. So I report I don't see any elites at the field/FITA events I attend.
> 
> Well then some other jack says no thats wrong! Timmy Ewers. Never seen him and if he shoots a Elite more power to him.
> 
> Then there is you that think I am starting a fight simplely for reporting an observation which is I still see a lot of Hoyt's at the Field shoots I attend.
> 
> there that should about sum it up for ya..
> 
> what have you seen equipment wise at the field shoots that you attend?
> 
> or are you just one of those lame passer bys that don't shoot field but think you have to throw your 2 cents in anyway????
> 
> If I have learned on thing on this thread its: You bowtec people are way to sensitive.. Kinda like the MATHEWS SHEPPLES OF DAYS GONE BY. :


Nope...I don't want no bowtech.....I'm talking about a rumor I heard about said company.....that BIG SPOTTIE news will come from that camp soon. That's all...I didn't mean for all of this to get flamed up like this


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## montigre

itchyfinger said:


> This is not archery related....I ask it be moved to the campfire  MacBeth is not sutiable for some in here. Well maybe not.....it might take seeing the Ghost of Banquo for some to realize that mystical archery forces are at work here. :wink:


If the pot's going to be continually stirred, may as well do it with a little class....


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## itchyfinger

montigre said:


> If the pot's going to be continually stirred, may as well do it with a little class....


And a big wooden spoon, pointy hats and warts on your nose  (halloween is upon us )


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## Brown Hornet

First of all....if you don't like the thread and don't want to contribute in the harmless debate....guess what. You don't have to click on it.....so it's not getting moved. 

Second Bees we all know what you mean by "Jack"....nobody is putting words in your mouth.....but other then that you are still right for the most part in the thread. 

As for your other comments....you know VaVince....you may not remember but he only camped behind your truck on The Hill with me and XHunter :doh: as for Timmy Ewers....you may not know him....but that's your fault. You have to pay attention he has only been in the finals at LAS the past 2 years while you were there....and he only won BHFS at Outdoor Nationals this year....:wink:


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## pennysdad

*I have to agree*

Bee's has just about hit it on the head, like it or not! The Field, and indoor shoots that we attend are for the most part Hoyt, and matthews showsHoyt being the majority! With a few stragglers here and there. Used to be alot more Martins, but they are few now! Bee's is really a great guy, he just has an uncanny ability to piss people off! LOL! Don't take his words to literal, just the point he's making!


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## Bees

Brown Hornet said:


> First of all....if you don't like the thread and don't want to contribute in the harmless debate....guess what. You don't have to click on it.....so it's not getting moved.
> 
> Second Bees we all know what you mean by "Jack"....nobody is putting words in your mouth.....but other then that you are still right for the most part in the thread.
> 
> As for your other comments....you know VaVince....you may not remember but he only camped behind your truck on The Hill with me and XHunter :doh: as for Timmy Ewers....you may not know him....but that's your fault. You have to pay attention he has only been in the finals at LAS the past 2 years while you were there....and he only won BHFS at Outdoor Nationals this year....:wink:





> Second Bees we all know what you mean by "Jack"....


Do we really know what we know??? and is what we think we know really fact. I mean 600 years ago everyone knew the world was flat. 

Just to set the record straight I attended LAS last year, I went on a Friday, I shot a 604 and went home, I was at a local club shooting on Sunday. So I have yet to attend a LAS final and I really don't follow bowhunter free style all that much. :noidea: : 

And all I can remember about the hill is my experiment with a parallel limb bow didn't work out for me, You were struggling too, and Lee shot his personal best with a PSE. But now I see your struggles seem to be over and happy days are here again and your looking forward to indoor. : :



> Nope...I don't want no bowtech.....I'm talking about a rumor I heard about said company.....that BIG SPOTTIE news will come from that camp soon. That's all...I didn't mean for all of this to get flamed up like this


But Itchyfinger you said you really cared back on page one. 

I think it's gone pretty much the way you had hoped, you welcome, you couldn't have done it without me. : : :


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## USNarcher

itchyfinger said:


> me? :noidea: I'm just trying to comfirm that ol Tech is gonna make a run this year....on bows and possible high profile shooters. I think all the lessons they learned from Savage will start paying off soon. :secret:


Bowtech won't be in the top male FS at any event.  At least as long as their designers feel that they are gods gift to archery and will not accept input from those that shoot their bows. What is the purpose of a Staff Shooter program, unless it's just to put cool shirts among the Sea of Red, if you don't listen to the ones that put thousands of arrows through their bows at all distances and in every condition imaginable. Just because a bow looks good on paper doesn't mean that it can hit paper at 90 meters. But there are no joe bow hunters shooting that far anyway and if they do miss they blame themselves.:zip:


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## Brown Hornet

I forgot you rolled out early....:doh:

But I wasn't struggling on the Hill that day...shot pretty good for me then...that was the S4s fair well parade...I shot a 526 or something. Which was good then and the best round I had shot with that bow .


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## itchyfinger

Bees said:


> Do we really know what we know??? and is what we think we know really fact. I mean 600 years ago everyone knew the world was flat.
> 
> Just to set the record straight I attended LAS last year, I went on a Friday, I shot a 604 and went home, I was at a local club shooting on Sunday. So I have yet to attend a LAS final and I really don't follow bowhunter free style all that much. :noidea: :
> 
> And all I can remember about the hill is my experiment with a parallel limb bow didn't work out for me, You were struggling too, and Lee shot his personal best with a PSE. But now I see your struggles seem to be over and happy days are here again and your looking forward to indoor. : :
> 
> 
> 
> But Itchyfinger you said you really cared back on page one.
> 
> I think it's gone pretty much the way you had hoped, you welcome, you couldn't have done it without me. : : :


I would care if it was everything I ever wanted in a bow.....BUT it would take some sort of awesome effort.


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## itchyfinger

USNarcher said:


> Bowtech won't be in the top male FS at any event.  At least as long as their designers feel that they are gods gift to archery and will not accept input from those that shoot their bows. What is the purpose of a Staff Shooter program, unless it's just to put cool shirts among the Sea of Red, if you don't listen to the ones that put thousands of arrows through their bows at all distances and in every condition imaginable. Just because a bow looks good on paper doesn't mean that it can hit paper at 90 meters. But there are no joe bow hunters shooting that far anyway and if they do miss they blame themselves.:zip:


Another one making too much sense......

Maybe so....but it's good to hope....right? I heard that they took their humble pill and are opening the doors....this new bow is (hopefully) going to be the result of this.


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## Brown Hornet

Just shut your trap....it doesn't matter if you get a BlowTec or anything else....I am gonna lay it on you. Just get something


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## carlosii

USNarcher said:


> What is the purpose of a Staff Shooter program, unless it's just to put cool shirts among the Sea of Red, if you don't listen to the ones that put thousands of arrows through their bows at all distances and in every condition imaginable.


Bow Tech has a staff shooter program??? Hmmm....is that something new? Didn't see any/many at the ASA/IFAA/IBO shoots I went to this year.
Bow Tech staff shooter...amazing, eh? Who knew?


----------



## Ode1891

Bees said:


> Ode1891 Long time no see.
> I'm conducting a test on what you can write down and how people perceive the meaning when they read it. so far it's been a real eye opener. You going to shoot indoor? or just hunt??


We plan to do a lot of indoor, oops wrong forum, and travel around a bit too, to other clubs hope to start in a couple weeks. We went to Foleyet Ontario on a Bear hunt....oops wrong forum. We also fished for Northern Pike....OOPs again. That was from 9/17-9/28 so I only hunted a couple days before heading up North, dang I keep violating. I'll post a write up on the trip in a few days or so and copy the link in here. 

About communication in forums, I always assume the best motive and leave if I get irritated. I've never won an argument


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## itchyfinger

Brown Hornet said:


> Just shut your trap....it doesn't matter if you get a BlowTec or anything else....I am gonna lay it on you. Just get something


Looks like Ricky Williams laid into you this weekend..... Let's see....where did I here this before............."COME GET SOME!"


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## Brown Hornet

itchyfinger said:


> Looks like Ricky Williams laid into you this weekend..... Let's see....where did I here this before............."COME GET SOME!"



I was talking about shooting numb nuts.... :doh:

You know I don't bet on stuff I have no control over....heck look at the Pick Ems from last week....I picked you to beat me 

You aren't clear to use that phrase either....so you will be hearing from the "suits" shortly


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## itchyfinger

Brown Hornet said:


> I was talking about shooting numb nuts.... :doh:
> 
> You know I don't bet on stuff I have no control over....heck look at the Pick Ems from last week....I picked you to beat me
> 
> You aren't clear to use that phrase either....so you will be hearing from the "suits" shortly


I gots more lawyers than Savage......Bring it! :zip:


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## Brown Hornet

itchyfinger said:


> I gots more lawyers than Savage......Bring it! :zip:


You can have all the lawyers you want.....did you forget who your dealin' with? :wink:


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## itchyfinger

Brown Hornet said:


> You can have all the lawyers you want.....did you forget who your dealin' with? :wink:


I guess I did......:doh:


----------

