# Apex



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

The Apex 7 are excellent bare bow compound. Amazing, absolutely love them.


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## BLGreenway (Jan 18, 2014)

Help me here. There was a day when a 38 axle to axle was considered way too short for fingers. Heck, even some of the 41 -42 " bows were regarded as unacceptable. Was this wrong then ....or have we just lowered our expectations since we have so little to choose from?


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## brian wagar (Jul 28, 2008)

If your wanting to go a little longer look at conquest4 i shoot a 2014 super smooth on the draw i spent all of 5 minute's getting it set up put a flipper center rest on adjusted until fletched and bare shaft grouped and off i went shoot this no sight's and finger's this after trying many different bow's. Brian


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## hunterj (Mar 26, 2006)

Thanks guys it has been a few yrd sent I shot fingers going buck to the simple days of shooting just feeling out the water really wanting a 40 or longer bow just had a chance to trade for a apex but it feel thru so I say I will go for a comfiest or a new hoyt


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

BLGreenway said:


> Help me here. There was a day when a 38 axle to axle was considered way too short for fingers. Heck, even some of the 41 -42 " bows were regarded as unacceptable. Was this wrong then ....or have we just lowered our expectations since we have so little to choose from?


The key is shoot with 3 finger under, instead of split-finger. 

I don't pay attention with what is the acceptable or unacceptable. That is just some people's opinions. I may agree, or I may disagree.

When I was in the computer field, I was the head of R&D. I tested and find solutions and decides what works and doesn't work for me.

Besides shooting compounds, I've been shooting Traditional for many years. One day 2 years ago, I decided to setup an Apex 7 for barebow fingers, just to try it. Tried split-finger and finger pinching was an issues. So I decided to try 3 finger under for the first time. Problem solved, absolutely love it.

I love shooting the Apex 7 so much that I sold my 65# Bear Super Kodiak yesterday. The Bear Super Kodiak was and still is my favorite recurve!

"Things are only impossible until they are not."


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

For casual use maybe, competitive definitely not.

Few people are shooting bows under 40" competitively.

Grant


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Grant, let me expand on your comment, not one of the National (NFAA) records has ever been shot with an ATA shorter than 41" and most were with 45" ATA or longer. I shot an Apex 8 for quite awhile, and it was a good shooter (longer than the 7), but it was not as stable a platform as my Hoyts at 45" ATA.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Interesting how many archers are quick to give their 2 cents when they have never shot an Apex 7 bare bow.

Just because people does not shoot an Apex 7 for barebow competition, doesn't mean anything. It's just personal choices and does not mean the Apex 7 is not a great choice.

Shoot an Apex 7 bare bow and decided for yourself.

Just as a test on the longer ATA theory being better, bought and setup an Apex 8 to shoot as barebow fingers to test side by side with an Apex 7. After 2 days of testing, yesterday and today, yes the Apex 8 does appears to hold better. However, the Apex 7 was more accurate and grouped tighter. Not the results I was expecting, but I'm not surprised.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Chris1ny said:


> Interesting how many archers are quick to give their 2 cents when they have never shot an Apex 7 bare bow.
> 
> Just because people does not shoot an Apex 7 for barebow competition, doesn't mean anything. It's just personal choices and does not mean the Apex 7 is not a great choice.
> 
> ...


How many national and state titles have you taken with bows under 40" ATA?

-Grant


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Chris1ny said:


> Interesting how many archers are quick to give their 2 cents when they have never shot an Apex 7 bare bow.
> 
> Just because people does not shoot an Apex 7 for barebow competition, doesn't mean anything. It's just personal choices and does not mean the Apex 7 is not a great choice.
> 
> ...


Shame you assume about the Apex 7.... I help out at a Mathews dealer... and I have shot a lot of the Apex 7's, including one shot by a factory Staff shooter. I liked it, but the Apex 8 to me at my DL of 30.5" had less of a severe angle on the string (I shoot 2 under with a compound, dropping my 3rd finger off - so never a finger pinch even with shorter ATA bows). I even have 2 State records with a 37" ATA, but in the older age group I blew those records away with my old Hoyt at 45"....  Ben still holds many records with an old long ATA Hoyt, as does Gary...

My hunting BB is a Hoyt Protec, GTX cams and XT 4000 limbs (45.5" ATA) and my current target BB (I have built 5 recently) is a Vantage Pro with XT 3000 limbs and GTX cams (45+" ATA). My son has broken 2 state records and just won shooter of the year in Young Adult BB with a V-Pro setup at 45" ATA. I still shoot my recurve BB more but had a pretty decent year...  

Its not all about competition, but really the longer ATA not only avoids finger pinch, but the hold is so much more steady and easier to shoot. It is a proven fact a well balanced longer ATA bow is less finicky to small movements. Chris give one a try and you will see, like I have said before its a personal preference, just like a ford or a chevy... but once you try a Mopar, you'll never go back. 

DId I mention I have an old Aspen I am stringwalking and have really taken to those dang old wheels..


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

The original operator question "is a Apex 7 a good finger bow"? What does competition have to do with anything to the original question?

As rsarns write, he won 2 State records with a 37" ATA bow. The Apex 7 is 38" ATA, so a under 40" ATA bow can win tournaments. With a 30.5" draw length, rsarns prefers a longer ATA, but he did win with a 37" ATA bow. So winning a tournament with less than 40" ATA can be done.

As I stated earlier, it's personal choice. Can a under 40" ATA bow win a tournament? Absolutely.

So Grant, your are incorrect on your know it all assumption of "definitely not." Maybe definitely not for you, but your negative blanket statement is definitely not true for everyone.

The only way to make sure is to setup an Apex 7 bare bow and test and find out for yourself.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I guess my comments can be read any way you want, just like statistics can be used for either side of an argument.

Yes, you can use a shorter ATA bow such as the Apex 7 for finger shooting. Will you be as effective as you would be with a longer ATA bow? Probably not. It all depends what you want out of it, do you want to shoot 500 field rounds or are you happy in the 400 range? If you are just a local club shooter, don't care about Nationals or worlds, and you shoot once or twice a week... any bow can be used. If you want to be serious and compete at the upper levels with the Ben Rogers, Gary McCain, Denny Clines, Boyd K. etc... well take a look at what the top shooters in the BH and BB classes are using... Tom Daley and Rich Eckenburg aren't shooting short bows... Kric Mccubbins isn't, .. hmmm I cannot think of one of the top guys or gals who shoot a short ATA bow.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

rsarns said:


> I guess my comments can be read any way you want, just like statistics can be used for either side of an argument.
> 
> Yes, you can use a shorter ATA bow such as the Apex 7 for finger shooting.


Since you did win with your 37" ATA bow when other competitor are shooting 40" ATA or longer, winning with a shorter than 40" ATA is absolutely possible. You have done it yourself, twice. 

The argument that 40" ATA is an absolute requirement needed to win tournaments is absolute not true. Otherwise how did you win the state tournament twice with a 37" ATA bow?

Congratulation by the way.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I cannot believe I even bother to post here anymore.... I think I'll be like many others and just leave this site to the "wannabees"


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Chris you should listen to Ren he is right. he's not saying it can't be done. He's just saying if you are going to a car race be sure and bring the right car


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

rsarns said:


> I cannot believe I even bother to post here anymore.... I think I'll be like many others and just leave this site to the "wannabees"


Wrote that you win with a 37" ATA bow twice but preach and trying to convince eveyone that it can't be done.

Small mind for a small man.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

2413gary said:


> Chris you should listen to Ren he is right. he's not saying it can't be done. He's just saying if you are going to a car race be sure and bring the right car



Ren is dead wrong. That is why he had to run away and cry like a little school girl.

Right car is subjective. In life one size does not fits all. Just because a car is right for one person, does not mean it's right for everyone.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Ren and Gary have the titles/records to back up their opinions, still waiting to hear if you have any hardware on the shelf.

Winning at the state and local level can be done with nearly any equipment, that depends more on who shows up. Breaking records on the other hand....
Ren smashed his previous records once he started putting faster cams on his Vantage XT 3000 setups. Funny enough that is a 45" bow.

I guess you just have to have a decent level of ability to see the difference.

Grant


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

grantmac said:


> Ren and Gary have the titles/records to back up their opinions, still waiting to hear if you have any hardware on the shelf.
> 
> Winning at the state and local level can be done with nearly any equipment, that depends more on who shows up. Breaking records on the other hand....
> Ren smashed his previous records once he started putting faster cams on his Vantage XT 3000 setups. Funny enough that is a 45" bow.
> ...


I don't care what "credential" you say you guys have because they have not helped you guys from contradicting yourselves.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

rsarns said:


> I cannot believe I even bother to post here anymore.... I think I'll be like many others and just leave this site to the "wannabees"


Stick around. Even the most beautiful forests will host a troll or two. In fact, they are so rare in the Fingers Forum, there was a petition to have them listed as "Endangered." If that happens, the next thing you know, there will be a re-introduction plan to move breeding pairs from the "Bowhunter Forum" or (gasp!) the heavily over populated "Anything and Everything Forum." Then we'll have to hear about how Hitler confiscated releases and drop away rests, leading to the Holocaust.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Chris here are some credentials


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## b-a-maniak (Apr 19, 2014)

hunterj said:


> Ok got another question is a Apex 7 a good finger bow I know it is only 38 ata but just asking any info would be appreciated


I used a hoyt raptor for a while, if I remember right it was 38" ata. I've got a 30+" DL and shoot split fingers. It felt real pinchy on my fingers and my groups at 30 yds could be covered with a 5 gallon bucket. 

I've never shot a Mathews anything, but they seem to make a quality product (respectable precision and decent tuneability). The raptor was a low-mid range production bow. If you're willing to shoot 3 under or split and drop the top and or have a shortish DL, there is no reason why it wouldn't work as a finger bow. If you can get it cheap, try it.

Good luck


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## cottonstalk (Feb 11, 2012)

That's an impressive pile of hardware there Gary.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Chris1ny said:


> Ren is dead wrong. That is why he had to run away and cry like a little school girl.
> 
> Right car is subjective. In life one size does not fits all. Just because a car is right for one person, does not mean it's right for everyone.


Ok, I am wrong... SO why don't you PM me your real name and we can meet up at any National event and shoot for some cash? Put your wallet where your ill advised comments come from? You give so much great (pardon the sarcasm) on here regarding aiming (or lack of) and bows as an expert finger shooter. So lets get together for a friendly round or 3 at the Nationals and say $1 a point?


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

cottonstalk said:


> That's an impressive pile of hardware there Gary.


Those might be Sandy's


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Ren, It is idiots like this guy who make me reluctant to post on a lot of these threads. Generally, people who want to improve on their nonsight shooting, will embrace tips from some of the top barebow archers. These archers are more than happy to fast track others by helping them avoid their own trials and tribulations. I wish I had been able to reference all the old time greats when I started, but, unfortunately, hieroglyphics didn't make for quickly shared info.:teeth:


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

2413gary said:


> Those might be Sandy's


Only 12 of them!!!


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

There all Sandys mine are behind the TV


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Last reply on this thread.

Just because you won a few competitions, does not make you an expert in bow technology. Far from it. Your only experience is what your read, told and the few bows you have shot. Very limited in the total numbers of available bows today.

Someone that is under 5' tall with a 26" draw length, a 40" ATA bow is just too long. If you don't understand this simple analogy, then obviously you don't know jack about human anatomy and physics, and you have tunnel vision. 

Bow technology is constantly improving and advancing. Keep believing in the urban myth of 40" ATA and not keep advancing with new bow technology shows us that, this type of thinking is very limited and your best days are behind you. Winners in life are not intimidated with change, they embraces changes and new technologies and advance forward. With your type of thinking, we would all be stilling driving the Ford Model T, instead of Porches, Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, etc. 

Apex 7 has been time proven, again and again, a champion bow in the 3D competitions, due to 320 IBO speed. There is a reason why Mathews made the Apex 7 from 2006 to 2014. No other bow in history so far have been the flag ship of a top company like Mathews for that length of time. The reason why Mathews kept the Apex 7 for so long was because the Apex 7 consistently wins tournaments, year after year. 40" ATA bow and longer is not able to generate these type of IBO speeds and range estimate errors will cause you the lose future tournaments with a fast bow like Apex 7. Once the bare finger competitors starts to discover what a great Apex 7 is for barebow, your days will be numbers. Thanks to this thread, the words is out spreading. There will be more and more people giving the Apex 7 a try with an open mind.

"Things are only impossible until they are not."

Advance forward with advances in technology or die out with the dinosaur. Choices is yours. Remember this, I told you so.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Chris I have one question. If the Apex 7 has been around for 8 years and is Matthews flagship bow I wonder why the top Barebow shooters aren't shooting them and setting new records ?


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

2413gary said:


> Chris I have one question. If the Apex 7 has been around for 8 years and is Matthews flagship bow I wonder why the top Barebow shooters aren't shooting them and setting new records ?


The apex 7 is not nor never has been
the Mathews flagship bow. It is, however, a great freestyle W/release bow. I know, I used it to win the 2007 Augusta ASA senior pro championship shortly before I destroyed my left forearm. It was not, however, a consistent finger bow in my trials with it.


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