# Gold tip hunter xt spine help and sanity check



## cs1983 (Jun 2, 2018)

Don't waste time or money w/ custom arrow building services until you know what you want. The only way to know that is to get some fairly inexpensive tools that practically = the cost of the service and build your own, experimenting. But by then you can build whatever you want without paying some company to have their folks stick it together (read: you have no idea if they did a good job or not).

I ran a build through their page w/ following specs:

29.5 300 spine hunter xt
standard insert
100gr head
gt nock
blazer vanes (3)


Based on their build page, I find the following:

total arrow weight - 416.65
FOC - 8.8%

I find those specs a bit unimpressive, personally.

Given that you aren't suffering in the DL dept., your speed will be pretty good, even with a heavier arrow that has more FOC. 

Someone with the fancy software will have to figure it out for sure, but I don't see where a 300 spine would hurt you even if it's on the stiff side starting out. I have some 26" (carbon - carbon) 300 spine arrows w/ 100gr brass inserts and 125gr heads, 501gr and 17.4 FOC per GT's FOC calc, and they fly fine.


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## Angry_abe (Jul 15, 2018)

Appreciate the insight. I did notice myself that I had to really load up on the insert and point weight to get a higher FOC which then significantly increased my total arrow weight.


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## Angry_abe (Jul 15, 2018)

Looking at their calculator again, even if I went with some such as the velocity xt with a 50grn insert and 100grn tip I end up with a 444grn arrow that has ~13% FOC which seems low for such a heavy arrow and that much weight up front.


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## cs1983 (Jun 2, 2018)

What’s your intended max range? 

You’ll likely find that a heavier arrow with 16-18% FOC won’t be the disastrous handicap at distance that some people think. At worst your pins will be spread apart more, or if you use the EZV you’ll have to go with a mid range to “high” low speed insert. 

For example, with my new Xpedite, I’m launching a 518gr arrow (different from my 300 spine ones) at almost exactly 245FPS. I can easily hit to 60 yards with EZV sight (maxes at 70). Were I using pins, I could probably go about as far. But I wouldn’t hunt at that distance. 

Is there more arc? Yep. But I’m not handicapped. 

You have a longer draw and are using the same bow (set at 65lbs) as my buddy who has my same draw length (26.5). Yet, he has no problem hitting to 50 yards with his set up using almost identical arrows. Only difference is he runs 100gr broadheads/field points. 

So while you will be handicapped to a bit at 55lbs, by the time you get solid to 40 yards, you’ll be ready to increase poundage. 

I can’t imagine you’ll be taking super long shots at turkey or a deer, so why not go for kill factor over a laser? 

Just somethings to think about. I’m sure there are other perspectives with validity. I personally choose arrow total weight and FOC since I’m already handicapped by draw length.


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## cs1983 (Jun 2, 2018)

An ETA to the above since I’m posting from a phone...

This is why I suggest you get some basic tools to build your own arrows. Buy some used arrows from the classified section here that seem in the ballpark of what you want. Get an arrow squaring device and square the ends. Try 50gr and 100gr inserts. Try 100, 125, and 150gr (or more! It’s ok to be unorthodox!) field points. Figure out the combo that matches your realistic hunting scenario. Then buy in the bulk you need and build your quiver out. 

If you want to get an arrow saw, I suggest collecting broken arrows at the range to practice on. 

My next step is my own fletching jig. There’s a great bit of freedom in rolling your own. If they don’t work out, just take apart (I use hot melt on the inserts for this purpose) and try a new config. 

Much cheaper than paying some company to build them for you only to find that the “perfect” arrow ain’t so perfect after all.


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## Abomb_78 (Mar 13, 2019)

I have almost he exact same setup (Edge SB-1) using the exact arrows. 

I used my electronic powder measuring scale and the arrows at 30.5” with 100gr field points and all the stock stuff that comes with the Gold Tip Hunter XT’s weigh 419gr. (calculator is pretty close cs1983) My draw weight is currently at 50lbs as I progress up, and my draw length is set at 29.5”. My chronograph measured 234fps the other day. 

Just for an almost apples to apples comparison. 

I will end up at 300’s at some point. Plenty of other stuff to worry about before I start getting into custom arrows as I am only 3-4 weeks in this journey.


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## Angry_abe (Jul 15, 2018)

Cs1983, I’m on my phone as well so my apologies if this seems confusing or I missed a point to adress. I can see how my other posts came off in a way that would portray I am against high FOC. I am actually looking for a higher FOC, I am just concerned with balancing total arrow weight against that FOC given the bows slower speed and my lower draw weight. I would also like to keep my point weight at 100grns given the larger broad head selection at that weight. I can add the additional weight upfront with heavier inserts. 

I am using a fast Eddie xl three pin so I have plenty of range adjustments. For hunting purposes at the moment I can see myself taking a shot at an animal past 40-50 yards. Even that seems out of my realm in the near future. For just screwing around at the range, who knows, 60/70 yards? Maybe longer just to see what it like. Nothing I would need to be serious about. I’ve been shooting recurved for a while now so I am not completely new to archery just the compound side of things.

After reading your input, other threads on the subject, and thinking about it logically I would agree that going with some custom build doesn’t make sense. I do plan to get the equipment to build my own arrows I just don’t have the space for it currently at my in laws while we transition through our move. Using the “stock” equipment that comes on a fletched shaft would give me time to get used to the bow and I can then take apart a couple of the arrows and see what types of setup I like. Thanks again!


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## Angry_abe (Jul 15, 2018)

ABomb are you using a 340 shaft? How is the bow treating you with the arrow setup?


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## Abomb_78 (Mar 13, 2019)

Angry_abe said:


> ABomb are you using a 340 shaft? How is the bow treating you with the arrow setup?


Yeah. Gold Tip Hunter XT's in 340. 

They are fine. I think my bow needs to be tuned properly. I have that factory Hostage rest maxed out in elevation and windage (to the left) and I am still nock high right. Not as much as it was, but it still isn't right. I went through my first 3D shoot this weekend and my 20yd pin did fine. I put this group together at 30yds the other day, but ran out of adjustment with my Trophy Ridge React Pro 5 pin (can't go any further down). So I have a few problems, but I don't think it is the arrows. 

https://imgur.com/a/o5EpxgY


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## cs1983 (Jun 2, 2018)

Angry_abe said:


> Cs1983, I’m on my phone as well so my apologies if this seems confusing or I missed a point to adress. I can see how my other posts came off in a way that would portray I am against high FOC. I am actually looking for a higher FOC, I am just concerned with balancing total arrow weight against that FOC given the bows slower speed and my lower draw weight. I would also like to keep my point weight at 100grns given the larger broad head selection at that weight. I can add the additional weight upfront with heavier inserts.
> 
> I am using a fast Eddie xl three pin so I have plenty of range adjustments. For hunting purposes at the moment I can see myself taking a shot at an animal past 40-50 yards. Even that seems out of my realm in the near future. For just screwing around at the range, who knows, 60/70 yards? Maybe longer just to see what it like. Nothing I would need to be serious about. I’ve been shooting recurved for a while now so I am not completely new to archery just the compound side of things.
> 
> After reading your input, other threads on the subject, and thinking about it logically I would agree that going with some custom build doesn’t make sense. I do plan to get the equipment to build my own arrows I just don’t have the space for it currently at my in laws while we transition through our move. Using the “stock” equipment that comes on a fletched shaft would give me time to get used to the bow and I can then take apart a couple of the arrows and see what types of setup I like. Thanks again!


Posting from computer, so this will be easier.

No worries, I understood you were trying to find a good balance of weight and FOC vs speed. Unfortunately, despite your DL, you will not be able to achieve a bunch of speed due to the bow. But that's totally OK! Even at 419gr w/ 60# DW, you are only at 260 with that bow.

Two calcs were used w/ the following specs for heavy arrow comparison:

IBO: 320FPS
DL: 29"
DW: 65#
Arrow weight: 500gr
string weight: 20gr

Calc1 (http://archerycalculator.com/estimate-bow-speed/): 245FPS 
Calc2 (http://backcountrybowhunting.com/calculator/): 249FPS

I'd say split the difference and call it 247FPS.

Since you are already admitting to yourself the application of your system (hunting) and admitting ethical limitations to probably 40 yards, speed is less of a factor w/ more weight. The weight will be helpful in penetration. My buddy shooting the same bow as you, at 65#, and 2.5" LESS DL, using ~500gr arrow, had a pass through on an elk at ~35 yards. The turkeys and deer you see should worry . 

The limiting factor is actually your 3 pin sight due to the gaps which will probably occur. You might look into either a 5-7 pin (7 might not be as useful due to spacing and lack of need aside from range fun) or an EZV (they have inserts which will match your speeds).

Equipment needed to roll your own (with perhaps some saw help from a shop until you go that route):

Arrow Squaring Device: 
This one allows both sides to be done when arrow is fletched (cost: $18): https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5372863

This one is fancier, but you can't square the nock end of a fletched arrow (cost: $39.95) : https://www.amazon.com/Outdoors-Arrow-Squaring-Device-Combo/dp/B001GXFNZM

Hot Melt (cost: $8.62: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AVCOD/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You'll also need the inserts, some hot melt (if you plan to mess around. Once set on something, a stronger glue might be in order depending; if you use hot melt, have a glass of cold water near to quench the heat from the insert immediately!), and well... that's about it aside from different weight field points.

Completely rolling your own? No, but better than nothing.

Cost of the actual equipment (minus the inserts):

If you go with both ASD's and the hot melt: $66.57; g5 and HM: $48.57; Onyx ASD and HM: $26.62 

Space required: a tiny box, drawer, etc.


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## Angry_abe (Jul 15, 2018)

CS1983, thank you. That is extremely helpful.


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## cs1983 (Jun 2, 2018)

No worries. You're simply going through the decision process I went through last year. I finally decided to stop paying attention to archers and 3D-centric folks, and start paying attention to hunters who can demonstrate their logic as applied in the field. 

If you haven't, check out Ranch Fairy's videos on YouTube where he covers heavy arrows vs lighter arrows.


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## Angry_abe (Jul 15, 2018)

cs1983 said:


> No worries. You're simply going through the decision process I went through last year. I finally decided to stop paying attention to archers and 3D-centric folks, and start paying attention to hunters who can demonstrate their logic as applied in the field.
> 
> If you haven't, check out Ranch Fairy's videos on YouTube where he covers heavy arrows vs lighter arrows.


Will do! This is why this site is awesome. 

abomb - looks like a solid group at 30. Have you watched any of the tuning videos on youtube for the bow? I know the hostage rest isn't exactly the best in the world but it sucks that you have to have it maxed out and still don't have good arrow flight.


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## cs1983 (Jun 2, 2018)

The hostage rest has Stockholm syndrome. Ditch it for one of the powershot whisker biscuits (keep an eye on classifieds here for a discount over MSRP) or go whole hog on a drop-away. Personally, I like the shaft retention of the WB. I ran a vapor trail drop away last year and while it's sweet to shoot, I found it annoying for hunting (the clickety-clackety of the arrow when stalking, the potential for the limb cable to fail, etc.).


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## Abomb_78 (Mar 13, 2019)

@Abe

Yeah I have watched them and gone through some of the steps as well as a lot of other general tuning videos. I just don’t know what I don’t know. There is a good pro shop somewhat close I am going to hit up once I get a new rest. They have an indoor 30yd range so I should be able to knock it all out in an afternoon. 

@cs 
Speaking of the rest. I intend to drop it as soon as I choose which drop away to go with. I will only get to hunt occasionally later this year pending I feel confident enough and it will mostly be in a stationary position.


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## Abomb_78 (Mar 13, 2019)

@cs1983

I went with the Hamskea Hybrid Hunter Pro Micro. Seems The shop still had to take it pretty far left due to the riser design but it is paper tuned and sighted in as good as I can do at 30yds for the moment. I am gonna shoot the **** out of it and keep cranking up the poundage as I feel comfortable. Now that everything seems good I just want to get as accurate as I can with what I have. 

I tried a Scott hand release today as well and have to say it was a bit more enjoyable that the Trufire Hardcore I have now.


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