# Shooting off the shelf vs. off a flipper rest



## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

Hello,

I recently acquired a Sky Archery TDX 15" riser and put together a nice 58" recurve using 40# medium WinAct limbs. It is pulling about 48# at my 28" draw. I plan on using Easton Game Getter 500 shafts for hunting and fletching with 3" feathers. I am wondering if I would be better off shooting off a flipper rest vs. a hair rest off the shelf? 

If shooting off the shelf, I was planning on getting this rest:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bear-hair-arrow-rest.html

If using a flipper rest, I was planning on getting one of these:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/aae-st-300-hunter-arrow-rest-rh.html
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/spigarelli-spiga-rest-2-arrow-rest.html

Any insight/recommendations? 

Thanks!


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

you would have to build up the rest to make it somewheat radiused if you plan on shooting off the shelf with that riser. Lancaster sells or will be selling a modular radiused shelf for their tradtech titan risers - I would ask if that would work with the Sky riser.

I like shooting off the shelf because it puts the arrow closer to my hand and I shoot instinctively - i have never used a rest and never saw a need to try one - so I cannot comment on the rests.


----------



## swampboy (Jul 17, 2009)

I use a bear weather stick on rest and I get better groups than off the shelf. My rest area is not radiused on my samick sage recurve that is why I went with a rest.


----------



## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

The Sky TDX is already radiused on the shelf and to boot, they incorporate a plunger hole at that level as well as having a hole for elevated. If I was to shoot it off the shelf, I definitely would take advantage of the plunger function over building out the shelf wall of a centershot bow. You would have to adjust shelf material to center the shaft with the plunger.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

J - 

Don't know anything about that particular riser, but these are the general compare.contrasts between a rest and shooting off the shelf.

Basically it's your bow and you're the guy shooting it, so it's your call.

Let's look at the reasons for shooting off the shelf.

1. Gets the arrow closer to the hand, usually touted by the "instinctive" types. That great, if you're aiming with your hand, but your not, Even if you were, the extra 1/2" of elevation isn't really going to matter.

2. Rests can break. Sure they can, but consider that the same adhesive that holds a stick-on rest in place is what's used to hold the rug and strike plate in place, the argument doesn't really hold water. Rests that screw into the plunger hole (if you have one), like the NAP Centershot Rest is about as bomb-proof as you can get. Like anything else, if you going to use a rest, you have to pick up the right one for the job.

3. Too easy for the arrow to fall off a rest. Yeah, right. Anything you do do knock an arrow off of a hunting type rest will knock it off a shelf just as easily.

4. It's more "traditional". 'nough said.

Now the reasons for using a rest. 

1. Less contact area. A reasonably tuned arrow is only sitting on the shelf or rest for the first few inches of flight - still the less contact, the less change there is of something getting in the way. Net result is a cleaner, more forgiving flight.

2. Depending on the bow/rest - easier to tune. For the above reason, plus a lot of rests are adjustable. 

3. Easier to do a field repair. In the rare case that you do have to replace one in the field, it's a simple matter of ripping the old one off and sticking a new one on. (The NAP Centershot rest has a pull off, push on feathers, though I've never seen one fail.) Try replacing a worn rug in the field with a new one an maintain the same knocking point position. 

Now, for a dedicated hunting rig, something like the old Bear Weather of J-2 rests work well and are pretty cheap. Flipper's like the aforementioned NAP are indestructible, but require a plunger hole and a riser that's cut pretty far past center. Although I've used old style flippers for hunting, but a lot of the newer ones might be more at home on a target bow, but again, it's your call. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Sanford - you are right - i did not notice that little hump when i first looked at the pics of that riser


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Don't ya love these characters that put "instinctive" in quotes and then proceed to speak as if they are experts on how the instinctive archer aims? Virtually all instinctive shooters agree that the closer the arrow is to your hand the more accurate you will shoot if you shoot instinctive - (note it is not in quotes - because there is no reason to put an established method of aiming in quotes - unless one wants to be a sarcastic arse about it). One must wonder how a guy who has to put "instinctive" in quotes - thereby demonstrating his total ignorance of how one shoots intinctively can say that 1/2" of elevation will matter or not! Enough said - such ignorance is not worthy of further comment.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

As somebody who has shot Instinctive/Gap not only off the shelf but using a rest over the last 25 years, In my opinion it doesn't make one bit of difference the fact the arrow is closer to the hand, once you're mind zoned itself into how the bow shoots you're zoned in, end of story

As Viper said arrow rests (specially if plunger used) helps get an easier/better tune and very consistent arrow flight you may not notice on short shots but it will really show up on long range shots

One BIG advantage is off the shelf you can vary the cant of the bow from shot to shot and still make accurate shots at hunting distances, it's popular for this reason and some feel it's also quieter.


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Well Rick Welch, Byron Ferguson, I am pretty sure Frank Addington, and others, who shoot only instinctive would beg to differ.


----------



## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I did not pay enough attention to the riser to notice a distinctive hump on the shelf, but it is curved or domed a little in the middle (I am a total novice in traditional archery). So if I want to shoot with a cant, I have to go off the shelf? I do want a set up that is as reliable as possible, yet easy to tune and service. I have looked at the NAP centershot flippers, but I get the feeling the threaded shaft will be too long and not line up with center properly. As a result, I was looking at the simple stick-on flippers. I've had good experiences with the stick-on types on my Olympic recurve so I figured why not for hunting? Since the lower plunger hole is so close to the shelf, I imagine only feathers may be used as they will likely contact the shelf and vanes would knock the arrow off course?


----------



## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

J-san:

Three questions:

1. Is the riser centershot? If so, how much; 1/8", 3/16", ??...cut-past-center.
2. Will this riser (bow) be primarily used for bowhunting?
3. Do you use a split-finger, 3-under, or mechanical release?


----------



## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

1. I'll have to take a look at it again when I get home later today, but I think it is cut pretty much at center if not just slightly past. 

2. Mostly hunting use for this bow. Of course, I will be doing a lot of target shooting to get the much needed practice before heading out for the woods. 

3. I shoot split finger.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Pretty obvious Byron shoots his off the shelf as everybody can see.

Sooooooo your telling me you've met these mentioned people and asked them their opinion on this subject of shelf v rest?


----------



## fnds (Dec 2, 2010)

sharpbroadhead said:


> Well Rick Welch, Byron Ferguson, I am pretty sure Frank Addington, and others, who shoot only instinctive would beg to differ.


Sharp, Steve has to present only one example, his own experience in this case, to prove that instinctive aiming doesn't require shooting off-the-shelf. Even if every one of the gentlemen you listed agreed with you, Steve's point still stands.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

J - 

If you understand how to set up and shoot an Olympic bow, then you know how to set up and shoot a trad bow. The principles are the same, the details may change a little. You can cant (and hit your mark) as easily off a rest as off a shelf. Most people have issues when canting, not because of the distance from their hand, but because the canting messes up their alignment.

Feathers are always safer bet, but with a properly tuned bow/arrow combination, you can shoot whatever you like. The arrow will paradox around the riser and the fletch should be nowhere near it as it passes. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

If the riser is advertised as a "centershot" riser, that in itself does not indicate whether the riser is a *true *centershot riser. In my opinion a riser that is just cut-to-center or the common 1/8" past center is not a true centershot riser; meaning, that arrow alignment is primarily controlled by arrow diameter and also limits range of spine that can be shot. Therefore, you will also have to know whether a particular rest will allow you to properly adjust arrow alignment for the diameter of shaft you will be shooting. 

Personally, for bowhunting purposes I would stay away from the "stick-ons," especially any that will impart noise. _Reliable_ is the name of the game when bowhunting.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Thank you fnds, 

Sharp I posted an opinion on my own experience, your post comes accross to me you just spoke on behalf of the whole Trad world without even asking them. If you dont agree with me thats fine,(I can take it lol) post from your own experience and not dress up your opinion like it's a fact.


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

no - i spoke on behalf of traditional archers who shoot instinctive and only instinctive. I have met both Rick Welch and Byron Ferguson and did discuss how important it was to have the arrow close to the hand and both agreed that it was very important. I attended the Asbell clinic - he too stressed that it was important - and I suspect - but am not certian that Frank Addington feels the same way- but I could be wrong - he shoots an olympic style bow. My point was that if I wanted to know more about how instinctive shooting is done - I would go to the best Instinctive shots out there - of whom Rick Welch and Byron Ferguson certainly are - and I would hold their opinions on the matter in much higher regard than some guy who feels it necessary to put instinctive in quotes everytime he mentions it or from someone who has not excelled in instinctive shooting - but has rather excelled in another type of shooting.


----------



## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

For some people, having the arrow on the shelf is a help. For others, it's irrelevant. Either way, it seems a terribly silly thing to argue about.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> or from someone who has not excelled in instinctive shooting


Not sure what you yourself consider excelled but I've won a number of National 3D tourneys (around 5 or 6 I think) shooting Instinctively with both Recurve and Longbow, I chose another aiming path because I got hooked on IFAA Field rounds, I still keep my instinctive origins, they prove handy every now and then.:angel:


----------



## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> For some people, having the arrow on the shelf is a help. For others, it's irrelevant. Either way, it seems a terribly silly thing to argue about.


 :thumbs_up

Whether or not one shoots better off the shelf or off a rest is something the individual has to determine. The bow vs. release type is a also a factor for some...as it is for me.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I like a raised rest for the consistency and tunability that the plunger give me. It also makes aiming past my point-on distance a lot easier, however since you are shooting split finger its unlikely you will have a close enough point-on to use that advantage.

I will definitely agree that getting a plunger/rest combo quiet on the draw is a little more complex then shooting off the shelf. However I think that its quieter during the actual shot so long as you aren't using a magnetic arm rest, those can get loud.

Both those things said I prefer shooting off the shelf on a hunting bow.

-Grant


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Well said Windwalker

Sharp I have to say your comment didn't have a lot of thought put into it, you dont know me or have you ever seen me shoot, I think that comment would be quite offensive to most Archers. I can't imagine how you would react if I said the same to you.

I have pretty thick skin so I'm not going to make a big song and dance about it but please think before you make future comments about mine or anybody elses lack of shooting skills that you've not witnessed first hand.

Thanks


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

LOL - If you were trying to compare me to Rick Welch or Byron Ferguson - I would tell you that I cannot shoot as well as either of them and that I could learn a lot from them. If you can shoot as well as them instinctively - I would love to see your videos and read your books. I would especially like to see you shooting aspirin out of the air - that is pretty cool stuff.


----------



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

LOL...for heaven's sake! An instinctive archer can learn to shoot just as well off an elevated rest as they can by shooting with the arrow closer to their hand. The only difference is that it may be *easier* to learn to shoot well having the arrow closer to the hand as it is having the arrow closer to the eye.

Instinctive aiming is about hand and eye coordination, proprioception, target aquisition, muscle/motor memory and how the conscious and subconscious mind factors into all of that.

Seriously...some people need to think outside of their lil box and realize that just because they can't do it doesn't mean no one else can. Ego, ego, ego...such a sad thing to let go to your head :wink:

Ray :shade:


----------



## RecurvesOnly (May 23, 2011)

I know most of the members here are very advanced much more than me, but I just to say under this heading, on my Grizzly I use the flipper rest, on the Kodiak Hunter I use a brush rest , but the point of this entry is to say that on my Kodiak Magnum, the shelf rest has such a nice romantic curve to it, it just begs to be used that way.


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Black Wolf - if you are refering to me - you did not read a word of what I said - I simply repeated what the best instinctive shots I have ever met have said - and how they shoot. I guess Ferguson and Welch need to think outside of their lil box and realize that just because they supposedly can't do it - it doesn't mean no one else can - oh the ego problems that they have - how silly.

If you want to shoot instinctive - I would suggest you do it the way the best instintinctive shots do it - does that mean it cannot be done another way - I don't know and dont' care - I have never seen a reason to do it any other way. When I meet and see people who are better than me at something I want to do - I try and learn from them and do what they suggest - and since the best instinctive shots I have met are better shots than me - I try and do what they recommend - simple as that.


----------



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> Black Wolf - if you are refering to me - you did not read a word of what I said - I simply repeated what the best instinctive shots I have ever met have said - and how they shoot. I guess Ferguson and Welch need to think outside of their lil box and realize that just because they supposedly can't do it - it doesn't mean no one else can - oh the ego problems that they have - how silly.


I'm not refering to you unless you believe there is only one correct way to set up your bow to aim Instinctively.

If Fergueson and Welch thought as I described...than...yes...they would have to think outside of their box.

Anyone can compare their techniques and see how different they are yet they BOTH use Instinctive aiming effectively.

Having the arrow a 1/2" closer to the hand is not much different than having the arrow a 1/2" closer to the eye...but we both now that isn't a necessity because you and Rick shoot very effectively having your arrow closer to your eye than how Howard, Stacy, Frank or Byron have theirs, yet everyone mentioned here has been very effective with their personal technique.



sharpbroadhead said:


> If you want to shoot instinctive - I would suggest you do it the way the best instintinctive shots do it -


That's great advice...at least in regards to doing some research...but after an archer has tried a certain technique doesn't mean they have to continue doing it. There may be another technique where they will be able to exploit it more effectively.



sharpbroadhead said:


> does that mean it cannot be done another way - I don't know and dont' care - I have never seen a reason to do it any other way.


You obviously did care at some point because you have already made changes regarding your shooting technique until you found what works best for you. You couldn't get Asbell's technique to work for you....but you did get Rick's. Just because you weren't able to make his technique work doesn't change it's legitimacy of being an effective technique for others. That same principle can also apply to equipment.

Ray :shade:


----------



## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Sharp, a little dig on the subject and players mentioned shows some contradiction going on to your recollections.

From a poster on Rick's website:

_"Does Ricks shooting style work with an elevated rest.
for years i did my best shooting with an elevated rest and 4 fletch plastic vanes from my recurve.
i have shot off the shelf also with ok results, but i just seem to have a better sight picture with the elevated rest. it seems as though my hand and the shelf are not in the way. i have ordered the latest dvd and am going back to my recurve after a few years of shooting longbows exclusively.
any input would be appreciated."_

Rick's answer: _"It is your choice good form works *no matter shelf or rest*.
RICK"_

On Byron from an interview with Addington:

Part of Frank's question: 

_"When shooting do you look at the arrow or just your target?"_

Byron's answer: _"I guess you could call me an *instinctive gap shooter*. I point the arrow at a gap below the target, not looking at the arrow, just pointing it. With practice this gap doesn't change with distance, making it the ideal method of aiming. It's just as easy as looking at someone's eye and pointing your finger at they're foot."_

Rick is indifferent on rest or shelf and Byron is not "purely" instinctive.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Good catch Sanford, always good to get these details from the horses mouth, and in print.:thumbs_up


----------



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Sanford said:


> Rick's answer: _"It is your choice good form works *no matter shelf or rest*._


_

I guess Rick doesn't need to think outside of the box :wink:



Sanford said:



Byron's answer: "I guess you could call me an *instinctive gap shooter*. I point the arrow at a gap below the target, not looking at the arrow, just pointing it. With practice this gap doesn't change with distance, making it the ideal method of aiming. It's just as easy as looking at someone's eye and pointing your finger at they're foot."

Rick is indifferent on rest or shelf and Byron is not "purely" instinctive.

Click to expand...

I struggle with anyone, who claims to be shooting 'purley' instinctively when they place the arrow very close to the eye...but if someone claims they are...I'll choose to believe them...even though I may have some doubts.

I also believe....in order for an archer to hit asprins out of the air on a regular basis does require good hand/eye coordination, proprioception, target aquisition and subconscious triggers that categorize it as aiming 'purely' instinctive. My guess is that Byron is refering to instinctive gap aiming with the majority of the shots he takes at stationary targets and aims 'purely' instinctively at most of his thrown targets.

I can't say for sure....just going by what sports pshycology and biomechanics has taught me.

Ray :shade:_


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

sharpbroadhead said:


> Well Rick Welch, Byron Ferguson, I am pretty sure Frank Addington, and others, who shoot only instinctive would beg to differ.


........Do the second two Archers really count??...Really??....I am in absolute awe at the trick shots these two Gentlemen make, nothing short of magic...But the question is really about a relatively new Trad shooter wanting to set a bow up to shoot well for HIM, and all that sort of thing....There are new shooters, average shooters, really good shooters, and Elite shooters....Each has Their own needs when it comes to bow set up, In my way of figuring things...This fella came on here and made a post, wanting solid advice...Can't "WE" help Him out, without this turning into ANOTHER pissing match??....Take care......Harperman


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Harperman said:


> ........Do the second two Archers really count??...Really??....I am in absolute awe at the trick shots these two Gentlemen make, nothing short of magic...But the question is really about a relatively new Trad shooter wanting to set a bow up to shoot well for HIM, and all that sort of thing....There are new shooters, average shooters, really good shooters, and Elite shooters....Each has Their own needs when it comes to bow set up, In my way of figuring things...This fella came on here and made a post, wanting solid advice...Can't "WE" help Him out, without this turning into ANOTHER pissing match??....Take care......Harperman


If one is starting in archery, I actually suggest they start with a compound. If coming from a compound to traditional style, I suggest that you keep it relative... if you are shooting off a rest with your compound, keep it relative on your recurve. If I knew how a trigger release really worked, I might suggest you keep that as well till you got "organized" with your shooting.

The point of all this is that we have archers... RIGHT?

Aloha... :beer:


----------



## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Excellent catch, Sanford. And I believe Addington uses a built-up leather rest. Should just about lay this debate to rest....bet not!


----------



## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

Didn't realize my question would have ignited such a debate! I guess I will order both a hair rest for the shelf and a flipper arm with plunger to mimic the set up on my target recurve. I may also try a hair shelf rest with plunger to see what works best. Suppose I could also leave the hair on the shelf and also use a flipper - can yank the flipper if that breaks while out hunting and shoot off the shelf. I usually bring a small tool kit with me when I firearm hunt so I am not caught unprepared. I've only shot Olympic recurve discipline and a touch of compound here and there. Never seriously shot traditional discipline, nor have I bow hunted before. I know what works for me on my target bow, but figured that would likely change since I would no longer be in a highly controlled environment that is the target field. I will be hunting either from a tree stand or stalking and some of my hunting areas are a bit thick and may force me to adopt awkward shooting positions. Basically, I was looking for some advice on what would be a reliable, accurate, and easy rest to set up for a simple hunting rig. Perhaps someday I will be able to shoot an aspirin tab out of the air, provided I could even see it!


----------



## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

J-san: 



> Didn't realize my question would have ignited such a debate!


Welcome to the world of archery forums.

Being your riser is tapped for pressure buttons you might want to consider using one being the button will allow you to easily and precisely align the arrow. Very convenient when using different diameter shafts. Just disable the cushioning aspect of the button and use it for horizontal adjustment, only.

Find yourself a GKF "Hunter Supreme" launcher-type rest. The rest was made for finger shooters. Simple, cheap, and fairly bulletproof. Has horizontal and vertical adjustment. Vertical adjustment allows easy and precise alignment of shaft to button, and horizontal adjustment allows quick and easy adjustment of rest to correspond with horizontal adjustment of pressure button. 

Here is the setup on my "Jensen" recurve. I have used the same setup on other 'curves.










Golden Key Futura "Hunter Supreme."


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

ok -

1. Rick is flexible with people who are unwilling to go 100% the way he would recommend - that is all that was about. Will it work - sure - will it work as well - that is another story - have you ever seen Rick shoot a bow with a rest - if it works just as well i would imagine he would occassionaly shoot with a rest - but he does not.

2. Your quote on Ferguson is again - off topic - When he shoots aspirin out of the air - do you think he is consciously thinking of a gap? If you read his book - he suggests starting using a conscious gap and then relegating to to the subconscious - ie: INSTINCTIVE. He never uses a rest either.

There is no debate here - for most instinctive shooters they will shoot better faster by shooting off the shelf - and all the top instinctive shooters would agree with this - I am almost 100% certain.


----------



## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

I like both ... 
On my longbows I shoot off the shelf , 
On my recurves off a rest , 

Its amazing that I ever manage to hit anything ...


----------



## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Sharp:

You can argue until the sheep come home, but the bottom line remains that regardless of what works best for many does not mean that the same will work or work as well for all.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

sharpbroadhead said:


> ok -
> 
> 1. Rick is flexible with people who are unwilling to go 100% the way he would recommend - that is all that was about. Will it work - sure - will it work as well - that is another story - have you ever seen Rick shoot a bow with a rest - if it works just as well i would imagine he would occassionaly shoot with a rest - but he does not.
> 
> ...


I shoot off a shelf, but I'd not be suggesting that this is for everyone by any means. I don't know for sure, but I doubt them guys shooting for burgers and $$$ are shooting off the shelf.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> ok -
> 
> Will it work - sure - will it work as well - that is another story
> 
> all the top instinctive shooters would agree with this - I am almost 100% certain.


Ricky said * "no matter shelf or rest"*. Just about exactly my point 30 posts ago, yet you still insist giving Ricky's and other Archers opinions on their behalf, just to try and give your own post some factual credibility when all along it's just an opinion, you know it's Ok just to give your own opinion based on personal shooting experiences. For somebody who's already admitted he's never used a rest you have no personal experience on what would or wouldn't work, seems to me just stiring the pot for the hell of it.

As Harperman said were trying to help people here with good info, your info wasn't accurate and that's not my gripe, what I feel is bad is that you keep trying to present these posts as fact, this is helping who?.


----------



## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

Gentlemen
I am off the road until January and saw this thread. Here's my story on shelf verses rest...
Personally I grew up shooting in the 1970's. I would switch back and fourth with recurve and compound, shooting both instinctive. The rest was there on my compound and I liked a rest on my recurve because for me personally I felt it gave me more accuracy. I tend to drag my third finger and always get a "kick" when I attempt to shoot off the shelf. Plus in my shows I do multiple arrow shoots and need a rest to do them. I have never liked shooting off the shelf.

However, Fred Bear and Rev Stacy Groscup did. They both wanted that arrow as close to their knuckle as possible. I am the opposite. 

As in all things, especially archery, I think we each have different styles, etc. A new shooter will find his way and his/ her preferences as he goes. Fred and Stacy were two of my friends and archery heroes, but I had to develop my own style. Stacy for example liked short bows, the shorter the better. I much prefer the longest bow I can get. He was a short man, I am 6'2". I think a new shooter needs access to a good, experienced proshop or friend that can help make modifications as he/she learns the sport. There is no one way, just like we all prefer a different style--sights, instinctive or gap-- or a combination of the styles.

I will say this, I shoot mustard seeds from the air with my bow and performing I need all the accuracy and forgiveness in my gear I can get. I like a long recurve, compound or longbow and I use a leather rest my father makes for my arrow rest. I believe it's a very accurate system. I much prefer the rest, but as I mentioned many of my heroes shot off the shelf. If you are looking for a good rest, the old Earl Hoyt prorests are great.

My two cents, just enjoy archery and enjoy the experience. Welcome to a great sport...


----------



## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

Ps
I like those old hunter supreme rests alot.. My compound has one on it and that's the best rest I have ever shot personally on a compound bow. I like the fact that you can use a Berger button to tune it and get perfect arrow flight.... A great old rest. Never had one on a recurve but I do like that rest...


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Thanks for taking the time to post Frank

Well Sharp that myth is well and truely BUSTED.


----------



## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

Hey guys, in defense of OneSharp, remember I said Fred Bear and Stacy both shot off the shelf. I'd say the majority do... I don't like to see us archers argue among ourselves. Spirited debate is fine, but we are all part of the archery family. I wasn't posting to argue or take sides, just state my preferences and why I do what I do.

Please lets all find common ground... I am a believer in letting folks find their way and shooting what shoots best for them. One Sharp, Steve and everyone posts things we can learn from... and there really isn't one size fits all in archery. It's a very personal sport. 

Thanks gang, lets ALL remember we are all part of the family of archers. There's room for all of us and many opinions.


----------



## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Aspirin Buster said:


> Hey guys, in defense of OneSharp, remember I said Fred Bear and Stacy both shot off the shelf.


As I have understood, both preferred the arrow close to their bow hand knuckles to get closer to their aiming reference. That's exactly the benefiting factor that has been said about the practice from the beginning of this thread.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Frank I said both work equally well and I agree being close to the hand will likely benefit most instinctive shots, I only objected to several well known archers and 99% of Instinctive Archers being spoken for by one person, I just thought the whole way it was presented very misleading to the newer archers in this sport.


----------



## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

I understand Steve, I just wanted readers to know I wasn't picking sides.. Just explaining what I use and why. It's very difficult to dictate to someone else how to shoot. Writing my book was difficult because I realize not everyone has my eyesight or hand eye coordination. You guys all have valid points, I just didn't want my comments to appear to be picking sides.


----------



## Bobman (Dec 18, 2004)

if you are a hunter there is going to be times you will need to cant the bow at a pretty strong angle, like sitting at the base of a tree for example. 

I've tried both methods and found the shelf to be more consistant and also as Windwaker mentioned simple, the shelf is pretty fool proof.

So for me the shelf is what works best


----------



## cossack (May 11, 2011)

Try both and find out what works best for you and your bow.


----------



## slade (Feb 21, 2003)

Question for those in the know. How does Frank Addington shoot off of the shelf using a Hoyt ILF set up?


----------



## fnds (Dec 2, 2010)

slade said:


> Question for those in the know. How does Frank Addington shoot off of the shelf using a Hoyt ILF set up?


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1179939&p=1057404863#post1057404863


----------



## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

My rests are custom made from layers of leather.... For what I do.

(see my posts above)


----------



## hcorrigall (Apr 1, 2009)

Wow !! Now I wonder is this the same Steve Morely,archery coach and Longbow World Champion? Well I guess that if it is him-HIS track record speaks volumes and hes to modest to ram that down anyones throat!! More to the man for that !!


----------



## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> _Wow !! Now I wonder is this the same Steve Morely,archery coach and Longbow World Champion? Well I guess that if it is him-HIS track record speaks volumes and hes to modest to ram that down anyones throat!! More to the man for that !!_


LOL! Catching the late train?

Based on my awareness of of Steve's extensive postings; ramming and bragging isn't his style.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

WindWalker said:


> LOL! Catching the late train?


Better late than never, besides I'm too short/light build for ramming and bragging, people my size tend to keep their heads down or it gets knocked off. lol

Would a lot of shooters choices (i.e. Ricky Welch) on shooting off the shelf be influenced on IBO Trad div rules?


----------



## Brianlocal3 (Dec 14, 2011)

Maybe it's because I'm in infant stage here guys but I am still in awe of the fact we can have a conversation with the likes of people like Mr. Addington, Mr. Morely and the like. Try that in baseball or football. It speaks volumes for this sport, hobby or whatever you want to call it.


----------



## Juood (Sep 11, 2012)

i just bought a NAP Centerest FLIPPER to put on my target bow (35# PSE Razorback, yes i'm cheap and not rich ) because the shelf is flat and after shooting off my new hunting bow (45# FUSE Intrepid) with what looks like a ~1.5" to 2" radius on the shelf i felt i was much more accurate with it. so the wheels started turning and i thought maybe this $100 bow will shoot better with a flipper rest (sad part is the flipper rest, basically a screw with a spring and wire, costs 1/4 of what the bow cost lol) anyway... 

i stumbled upon this thread and what a great read, i frequent alot of online gaming forums and its nice to see people actually treat each other with respect on the internet and very cool to see some lengendary names posting here!

sitting here at work and going to the archery shop accross the street to shoot with that flipper in a few hours i will post an update on how i like it vs that flat shelf, since i necro'd this thread i should probably add something constructive to it. cheers! :darkbeer:


----------

