# Linear Bow Press Fingers..Where to get them?



## JMedlin0511 (Nov 9, 2011)

is there anywhere i can order or anybody that can and will make me a set of fingers for a linear bow press? any info that could help would be appreciated!


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Contact "92safari" http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/member.php?u=105429


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## LCA Crew (Jul 19, 2011)

Last Chance Archery is the only company legally capable of making fingers for a Linear bow press!!!


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## omni press (May 16, 2007)

LCA Crew said:


> Last Chance Archery is the only company legally capable of making fingers for a Linear bow press!!!


Well to my understanding that's not technically correct. If I understand the patent law a person can make their own fingers for a personal build. Just can't offer them for sale, legally.


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## bowbender300 (Feb 3, 2010)

omni press said:


> Well to my understanding that's not technically correct. If I understand the patent law a person can make their own fingers for a personal build. Just can't offer them for sale, legally.


Check out this web site. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N65P66LsjM If you're handy at all.....................


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

omni press said:


> Well to my understanding that's not technically correct. If I understand the patent law a person can make their own fingers for a personal build. Just can't offer them for sale, legally.


I think people can make them for sale if they change the design a little. A lot of companies making and selling linear bow press that uses fingers.


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## omni press (May 16, 2007)

Outsider said:


> I think people can make them for sale if they change the design a little. A lot of companies making and selling linear bow press that uses fingers.


Ya I've wondered about that. I know 92safari sells a verzion and the Bow Time Machine builder had his as well. Curious what Last Chance folks think about those?


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Apple Archery use the fingers also but it is not a linear press


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## rocks66ss (Jul 29, 2014)

Make them yourself and use them. I doubt the bow press police will ever know.


Rocky


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

rocks66ss said:


> Make them yourself and use them. I doubt the bow press police will ever know.
> 
> 
> Rocky


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## bowbender300 (Feb 3, 2010)

Outsider said:


> View attachment 2923337


Now that's funny


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

omni press said:


> Well to my understanding that's not technically correct. If I understand the patent law a person can make their own fingers for a personal build. Just can't offer them for sale, legally.


Not exactly..........


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## omni press (May 16, 2007)

reylamb said:


> Not exactly..........


Ok I'll bite. What exactly?


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## archerynutt (Aug 27, 2003)

What is patent infringement? 

Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner. Further, you may be considered to infringe a patent if you import items into the United States that are made by a patented method, unless the item is materially changed by subsequent processes or becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. A person “infringes” a patent by practicing each element of a patent claim with respect to one of these acts. Further, actively encouraging others to infringe patents, or supplying or importing components of a patented invention, and related acts can also give rise to liability 

http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litigation/about-patent-infringement


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## klemsontigers7 (Jul 1, 2008)

LCA Crew said:


> Last Chance Archery is the only company legally capable of making fingers for a Linear bow press!!!


Sorry, but that's incorrect.


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## klemsontigers7 (Jul 1, 2008)

LCA Crew said:


> Last Chance Archery is the only company legally capable of making fingers for a Linear bow press!!!


I think you people search the word "fingers" on AT daily to look for these posts. Kinda creepy if you ask me.

The bow press police picture is hilarious.


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## archerynutt (Aug 27, 2003)

klemsontigers7 said:


> Sorry, but that's incorrect.


No that's a FACT.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

omni press said:


> Well to my understanding that's not technically correct. If I understand the patent law a person can make their own fingers for a personal build. Just can't offer them for sale, legally.


It isn't technically legal to reproduce any patented item without permission of the patent holder, even for personal use......

Of course I don't know of any manufacturers that would go after individuals using items for personal use only.....


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## meatmissile (Oct 26, 2009)

archerynutt said:


> What is patent infringement?
> 
> Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner. Further, you may be considered to infringe a patent if you import items into the United States that are made by a patented method, unless the item is materially changed by subsequent processes or becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. A person “infringes” a patent by practicing each element of a patent claim with respect to one of these acts. Further, actively encouraging others to infringe patents, or supplying or importing components of a patented invention, and related acts can also give rise to liability
> 
> http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litigation/about-patent-infringement


Guess we need to go and arrest a buncha dang Chinese cause they making all kinds of stuff that were patented here in the USA..


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## omni press (May 16, 2007)

reylamb said:


> It isn't technically legal to reproduce any patented item without permission of the patent holder, even for personal use......
> 
> Of course I don't know of any manufacturers that would go after individuals using items for personal use only.....


Ok here's something I found online concerning this:

Re a Patented Item>
It actually depends on the product and how you make it. Normally under 35 USC 271 it would be illegal to make, use, etc any patented item. However, under Subset G(1) the patent does not extend to any item when it is "materially changed by subsequent process".

To use your hammer example. If the hammer at the store was an all aluminum hammer with a designed head and you went home and made an all wooden hammer with a similiar head, your hammer would not infringe upon the patent because you have materially changed the original product. 

Also, think of it like a soda. Every wonder why there are so many that taste substantially similiar? It's because all I have to do is adjust one flavor component to differ my formula from yours. When dealing with a product, all you have to do is change it so that it can perform the same function but it doesn't look exactly like the original, or doesn't use the same construction material.


So is that why 92safari, Bow Time Machine, Apple Edge can all use "fingers" because they are materially different in form, but function the same? Or has Last Chance just not gotten around to suing them yet? Leonard?


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## omni press (May 16, 2007)

meatmissile said:


> Guess we need to go and arrest a buncha dang Chinese cause they making all kinds of stuff that were patented here in the USA..



U.S. Patents are only good within our shores I think I read. As long as they don't import them into the U.S. they can copy away?


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## omni press (May 16, 2007)

And just for added fun I am of the opinion that the EZ Green press came about because of similarly designed presses that were selling like hot cakes at the $400 price point prior to Last Chance receiving their patent. Then of course everyone received cease and desist greetings from Georgia.


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## archerynutt (Aug 27, 2003)

Just biding my time. I have sent more S&D letters than I wanted too, I can't believe anybody else would have done less. everybody on this sight knows I have two patents on this press. 7,597,094 - 7,644,708 

Treble damages -- Finally, a court may decide to award treble damages to a patentee, especially in cases of willful infringement. This refers to a financial award worth three times the amount of the actual financial losses suffered. This may seem excessively harsh, but the government imposes stiff penalties to discourage individuals or companies from using someone else's ideas in the first place.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

omni press said:


> U.S. Patents are only good within our shores I think I read. As long as they don't import them into the U.S. they can copy away?


Unless an international patent is filed for, which is only recognized in some countries....of course China isn't in one of those countries.....

Now, if said products are imported into the US, a bunch of folks could be sued for patent violation......

Really hard, if not impossible, to enforce in foreign countries.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

omni press said:


> Ok here's something I found online concerning this:
> 
> Re a Patented Item>
> It actually depends on the product and how you make it. Normally under 35 USC 271 it would be illegal to make, use, etc any patented item. However, under Subset G(1) the patent does not extend to any item when it is "materially changed by subsequent process".
> ...


Just as a couple FYI...materially different is not legalese for using a different physical material...read the rest of the thread you partially quoted, the hammers example is dead wrong.....

As is the Pepsi/Coke thing. The formulas are not patented.

There is no legal standard for how much an item must be changed, either in material that is used to make the product or how it looks, to get around a patent....

A bunch of what you pulled off the other internet message board is some absolutely bad advise.....


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

The other companies that uses fingers get away with it because their press is not "linear press" LCA cannot sue anybody who uses a toilet cleaner that looks like their fingers. Finger itself is not patented. Just the use of it.


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## that1guy27 (Jun 26, 2015)

Outsider said:


> The other companies that uses fingers get away with it because their press is not "linear press" LCA cannot sue anybody who uses a toilet cleaner that looks like their fingers. Finger itself is not patented. Just the use of it.


This is incorrect, read the patents. They have indeed patented the fingers. Below is from another post on the same subject posted by LCA, i agree the pice is way to high for what it is and can easily be made for 1/4 the cost or cheaper but a patent is a patent.

_Check out the Last Chance Archery EZ Green... Perfect for use on any compound bows on the market today! Super smooth and EZ, and a retail cost at $399.00... With our press comes a lifetime warranty that will cover anything that could happen to your press during future use. *With our "patented" finger system. (patent covers any finger system that presses a bow from the limb tips) it allows you to press the bow exactly as if it's being drawn back. It will not apply any extra torque to your limbs are your riser!! *

If you have any questions whatsoever, feel free to shoot me a message or email me:[email protected] com 

Thanks so much for reading _

JC/LCA

_Simply, we protect our patents that were created by our owner to protect our business and our products within. The same thing anyone would do with an idea worth patenting! 

If we didn't protect our patents, what would be the use in having them in the first place? Certain users on AT are blatantly patent infringing, and we send cease and desist letters to those that are, as they're clearly breaking the law in many ways by selling their certain bow presses. I see you posting about us negatively in many different forum threads and i'm just curious as to why? These users are the ones who have created patent infringing products from someone else's idea, they clearly know it, and still sell presses even after we send the letters letting them know they're infringing. It's hard to see how LCA is in the wrong there when they're the ones breaking the law? Check out the link below as to what the patent rights are, and our patent numbers are below that if you'd like to check those out as well. I don't understand why LCA is always the bad guy when we're the ones following the law, and the other users are breaking it while we're put out to be the bad guy. 

Customer service has always been our top priority, so if anyone has any questions concerning this post, either comment or email me directly to my personal email: [email protected]. 

http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintai...t-infringement

LCA Patent info/#’s US Patent #7,597,094 and #7,644,708

JC
"Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner."[/U][/U][/U]

http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintai...t-infringement

We have not given a single person permission, or the rights to our owners patents that were listed above. So yes, they are breaking the law and doing it illegally. We only send letters to people in the legal format and they're infringing. Anyone, and I think I can say anyone on here would do the same. If you come up with an invention, spend the thousands to patent your invention, if you see these users trying to go around that illegally and in return taking your business. You would be sending the letters as well no matter how much, or how little business they're taking. That doesn't matter, the fact of the matter is they're breaking the law and they don't care! It is our patent and if we choose to keep it for ourselves I fail to see the issue with that!!! What is the point of patents if we don't use them? 

JC 



Directly from the Patent and Trademark office"_


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## archerynutt (Aug 27, 2003)

Outsider said:


> The other companies that uses fingers get away with it because their press is not "linear press" LCA cannot sue anybody who uses a toilet cleaner that looks like their fingers. Finger itself is not patented. Just the use of it.


Nobody has gotten away with anything yet!!!!


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## pbuck (Mar 30, 2010)

The heat has shown up. ^^^ lol!


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## omni press (May 16, 2007)

archerynutt said:


> Nobody has gotten away with anything yet!!!!


My apologies to the author of this thread. Obviously a can of worms was opened and a scab torn loose at the same time. 

Ya of course LCA should protect their patents. If the market place didn't support the price they ask for their products then they wouldn't sell. As long as the demand is there they'll get the price they ask. Basic supply and demand. 

Had a similar product a few years back. Had a totally different "finger" set up, but I got my LCA letter too. To me wasn't worth the fight so I dropped the model. That's been years though and I see others way more like the EZ press on the market and wonder why that is?
So, archerynutt it seems like several makers are ignoring and will continue to do so. 

I don't really have a dog in this fight. It's true I do produce a line of presses for my fellow archers to use to further their enjoyment of our sport, but it's not my lively hood. Like there being more than one way to skin a cat there's more than one way to compress a bow. 

The depth of folks pocket books will decide.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

archerynutt said:


> Nobody has gotten away with anything yet!!!!


Not trying to argue but some people been selling presses with fingers for years and they still do. They know something that we don't


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## klemsontigers7 (Jul 1, 2008)

LCA Crew said:


> Last Chance Archery is the only company legally capable of making fingers for a Linear bow press!!!


Funny how you show up here, and don't give the guy a link to buy fingers from LCA. What's the point in cruising the DIY section if you're not going to be helpful.

BEGONE!


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## archerynutt (Aug 27, 2003)

klemsontigers7 said:


> Funny how you show up here, and don't give the guy a link to buy fingers from LCA. What's the point in cruising the DIY section if you're not going to be helpful.
> 
> BEGONE!


Since we are a sponsor of this sight, and he has a computer, he should have no trouble contacting LCA.


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## that1guy27 (Jun 26, 2015)

archerynutt said:


> Since we are a sponsor of this sight, and he has a computer, he should have no trouble contacting LCA.


That's not the proper response at all, that's bad business..

LCA Crew should have stated it's illegal for anyone other then lca to make them and said contact us via xxxx to order a set of fingers..

if they even sell just fingers?


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## archerynutt (Aug 27, 2003)

that1guy27 said:


> That's not the proper response at all, that's bad business..
> 
> LCA Crew should have stated it's illegal for anyone other then lca to make them and said contact us via xxxx to order a set of fingers..
> 
> if they even sell just fingers?


[email protected] 706-654-1961


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Wait until the patent runs out or buy a LCA press now. So when does the patent run out?


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## that1guy27 (Jun 26, 2015)

jim p said:


> Wait until the patent runs out or buy a LCA press now. So when does the patent run out?


As long as they keep paying the patent fee it can run for 20 years.

*"Patent applications filed on or after June 8, 1995, have a term that begins on the date the patent issues and ends on the date that is twenty years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States."*


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## ruttnwapati (Sep 22, 2008)

LCA Crew said:


> Last Chance Archery is the only company legally capable of making fingers for a Linear bow press!!!


Stop with the exclamation points. Your annoying enough
When you troll through the DIY forum spewing your patent and all it covers. 
DIYer's Press on. 😁
Bow Force Archery has a press that makes LCA and their "legal capabilities" look elementary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDws4GLJzFg


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

Last time you flew somewhere, did you get on a Wright Bros airplane? Ever see an Orville or Wilbur flyer zipping through the skies?

No? Ever wonder why? Because instead of manufacturing airplanes and pushing the envelope of flight the Wright Bros spent all their time and money defending their patent. History shows their folly.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

It looks like around 2030 you can start cranking out fingers. But I really don't know for sure when the time started on the patent. The latest date that I saw was in 2009.

My bow has limb stops mounted on the cams and I can't even get to my limbs to press them from the tips without having to remove the limb stops. I can't even use the bowmaster split limb adapters without removing the limb stops. We need a better way of pressing bows. 

So if I develop a great bow press that cost me $20 to make will you guys pay $50 for it or will you try to make your own? Don't answer that. Your answer could force me to start working. 



that1guy27 said:


> As long as they keep paying the patent fee it can run for 20 years.
> 
> *"Patent applications filed on or after June 8, 1995, have a term that begins on the date the patent issues and ends on the date that is twenty years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States."*


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## JMedlin0511 (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for all the info guys...haha...but still looking for those fingers!! lol


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## 92safari (Jun 20, 2008)

JMedlin0511 said:


> Thanks for all the info guys...haha...but still looking for those fingers!! lol


Best you'll find anywhere.. Adaptable to variety of press ideas..


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## JMedlin0511 (Nov 9, 2011)

Pm sent


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## V-TRAIN (Feb 27, 2009)

92safari said:


> Best you'll find anywhere.. Adaptable to variety of press ideas..


agree, i have these, and his press and it is awesome


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## EXMARK68 (Sep 22, 2015)

How much for a finger kit, im building a press and like the way these are made..


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## 92safari (Jun 20, 2008)

Have to go to classifieds , not many left..


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## ruttnwapati (Sep 22, 2008)

archerynutt said:


> Just biding my time. I have sent more S&D letters than I wanted too, I can't believe anybody else would have done less. everybody on this sight knows I have two patents on this press. 7,597,094 - 7,644,708
> 
> Treble damages -- Finally, a court may decide to award treble damages to a patentee, especially in cases of willful infringement. This refers to a financial award worth three times the amount of the actual financial losses suffered. This may seem excessively harsh, but the government imposes stiff penalties to discourage individuals or companies from using someone else's ideas in the first place.


Oh no!!! Your patent has been violated again. Send out some more letters. Better have enough stamps to make sure it will get to them overseas. http://www.sniperarchery.com/


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

ruttnwapati said:


> Oh no!!! Your patent has been violated again. Send out some more letters. Better have enough stamps to make sure it will get to them overseas. http://www.sniperarchery.com/


That thing is awesome.


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

One thing is most certain after reading through this thread......LCA behaves like a bully and I would not buy from them....or their products even if it was used in the AT classifieds. Justify your ingenuity and market share all you want, but the fact of the matter is that your patent will expire and everyone who has experienced your negativity will have VERY long memories of your company tactics. When the time comes, it will be a DIY or a BTM for me.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Alaska at heart said:


> One thing is most certain after reading through this thread......LCA behaves like a bully and I would not buy from them....or their products even if it was used in the AT classifieds. Justify your ingenuity and market share all you want, but the fact of the matter is that your patent will expire and everyone who has experienced your negativity will have VERY long memories of your company tactics. When the time comes, it will be a DIY or a BTM for me.


So, if my neighbor were to break into my house should I have the law enforced or not? I don't want to be a bully...

Theft of intellectual property is still theft. It is no different than any other crime. I have had intellectual property stolen....and it sucks.


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## ruttnwapati (Sep 22, 2008)

reylamb said:


> So, if my neighbor were to break into my house should I have the law enforced or not? I don't want to be a bully...
> 
> Theft of intellectual property is still theft. It is no different than any other crime. I have had intellectual property stolen....and it sucks.


Lurked around a little before 08 and joined here in 08. I watched this guy/company take ideas out for the diy section and then add it to his product line. For instance the integrated draw board into the press, swiveling mounted press, extendable arm with pin. Just a few. All posted and provided to those who wanted to build their own equipment on this site well before they were manufactured and sold as accessories by LCA. LCA ran with a few of these ideas and made some money. 
Granted he holds the patent to the fingers. Which I might had have changed to look real similar to a few modified diy versions. But to sit there and claim intellect property. LCA is just as big of thief as anyone else. He has robbed more press modifications and accessories from diyers here and profited from them. Those with a little seniority on this site can attest to this. Too bad someone can't get him for modifying his original finger design to copying ones posted in they diy forum.
OK now all the LCA minions start flaming me.


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

reylamb said:


> So, if my neighbor were to break into my house should I have the law enforced or not? I don't want to be a bully...
> 
> Theft of intellectual property is still theft. It is no different than any other crime. I have had intellectual property stolen....and it sucks.


Most assuredly... it is a flawless and well conceived comparison relating some guys making their own press fingers for a DIY archery project to someone breaking into your house. :embarres: Why don't you call the local police and have them rounded up??? Maybe because they resemble the parody posted earlier in this thread? LCA has certainly not made money enough off this concept and should continue to threaten those who trespass on their "intellectual property" until the patent runs out. Uh-huh.....:thumbs_do


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I didn't know about the other press manufacturers using fingers. I like the finger design of the bowforce. It looks like it would be very good for use on beyond parallel limb bows. If I was going to make some fingers, I would make the bowforce fingers and attach them using a bracket similar to the LCA press.

I also like the rollers that are used on the constrictor but the bow would have to be held in place with the use of rollers.


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

ruttnwapati said:


> Lurked around a little before 08 and joined here in 08. I watched this guy/company take ideas out for the diy section and then add it to his product line. For instance the integrated draw board into the press, swiveling mounted press, extendable arm with pin. Just a few. All posted and provided to those who wanted to build their own equipment on this site well before they were manufactured and sold as accessories by LCA. LCA ran with a few of these ideas and made some money.
> Granted he holds the patent to the fingers. Which I might had have changed to look real similar to a few modified diy versions. But to sit there and claim intellect property. LCA is just as big of thief as anyone else. He has robbed more press modifications and accessories from diyers here and profited from them. Those with a little seniority on this site can attest to this. Too bad someone can't get him for modifying his original finger design to copying ones posted in they diy forum.
> OK now all the LCA minions start flaming me.


Looks like things went pretty silent after this post. So it is OK to "borrow" from the collective knowledge and experimentation of the DIY'er when it fits one's agenda, but you better not do the same when one takes the time to patent all those collective experiences. Hmmmm.....sounds like a huge double-standard or even hypocrisy to me. :set1_cook2:


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

ruttnwapati said:


> Lurked around a little before 08 and joined here in 08. I watched this guy/company take ideas out for the diy section and then add it to his product line. For instance the integrated draw board into the press, swiveling mounted press, extendable arm with pin. Just a few. All posted and provided to those who wanted to build their own equipment on this site well before they were manufactured and sold as accessories by LCA. LCA ran with a few of these ideas and made some money.
> Granted he holds the patent to the fingers. Which I might had have changed to look real similar to a few modified diy versions. But to sit there and claim intellect property. LCA is just as big of thief as anyone else. He has robbed more press modifications and accessories from diyers here and profited from them. Those with a little seniority on this site can attest to this. Too bad someone can't get him for modifying his original finger design to copying ones posted in they diy forum.
> OK now all the LCA minions start flaming me.


You know their patent can be voided if you can proof that the design was on the web before the patent was issued? 
Check the "What will happen if someone sues me for patent infringement?" here: http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litigation/about-patent-infringement
"_The court may conclude that the patent claim is not valid if it is shown that the claimed invention was disclosed in a prior patent or patents, a book, a magazine, a newspaper, a television show or movie, a webpage or other published work before the date of the claimed invention._"


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Outsider said:


> You know their patent can be voided if you can proof that the design was on the web before the patent was issued?
> Check the "What will happen if someone sues me for patent infringement?" here: http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litigation/about-patent-infringement
> "_The court may conclude that the patent claim is not valid if it is shown that the claimed invention was disclosed in a prior patent or patents, a book, a magazine, a newspaper, a television show or movie, a webpage or other published work before the date of the claimed invention._"



If no one has been taken to court this may be the reason.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

jim p said:


> If no one has been taken to court this may be the reason.


Right. Is anyone being sued by LCA because of their patent? Or it is just the letter exchange? I have not heard anybody being ever sued by them.


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