# Golf vs Archery



## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

First this is the field forum and almost exclusively the NFAA type field. FITA isn't talked about or even very relevant here.

Second, FITA's dress code against denim (jeans) doesn't apply to FITA Field which is the only FITA that might be discussed here.

Finally, if not being able to wear camo is such a deal breaker that people stay away from field (and that would only be FITA Field) they need to get a life. What a silly excuse to not participate in field archery...of either kind.

Dave


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## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

At the NFAA field events I have been to camo is number one, blue jeans number two, BDUs number three, khaki number four and chinos number five. You see buckskin and kilts now and then. You ought to be able to find something in there to suit you. 

Me, I try not to judge people too much by their pants or the color of their neck. Come on out and give it a whirl. - lbg


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Blue jeans are not allowed on the Players in the PGA Tour either.. :wink: in fact the male pros cannot wear short either...


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

I'm even surprised they let them wear shorts for Q-school!!! 



JAVI said:


> Blue jeans are not allowed on the Players in the PGA Tour either.. :wink: in fact the male pros cannot wear short either...


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## natureboy18 (Jul 19, 2008)

When I go to 3-D bowshoots it reminds me of golf alot. You have to put down what you shot on the last target, only thing is that you only get one shot off the designated shooting area I call the teebox:wink:


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

The analogies between golf and archery are more because they are both very much mental games. They're both all about form and being able to repeat the shot time and again. They're also about visualizing the shot, concentrating on the target, etc. Chevy Chase's "be the ball" line might have been a laugh in the movie, but it's really a mantra for both sports. ("Be the ball"/"Be the arrow")

I'm convinced that those of us that participate in both are just total gluttons for punishment!


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## bowhnter7 (Dec 6, 2004)

natureboy18 said:


> When I go to 3-D bowshoots it reminds me of golf alot. You have to put down what you shot on the last target, only thing is that you only get one shot off the designated shooting area I call the teebox:wink:


Yeah even in golf you get to hit the ball (shoot and arrow) more than once a stake. :wink:


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## itsme (Nov 6, 2007)

i didnt mean to ruffle anyones feathers, this was more of an archery participation comment, or a question why isnt archery bigger. FITA wasnt the issue, just an example, but someone informs me this site is more NFAA oriented. but by some comments, it gives me an idea. back to golf, theres one governing body, the USGA (in the states that is, the R&A across the pond), how many governing bodies are there in archery? im just curious, the club membership numbers do not show at field events, no matter the format. im all for growing the sport of archery, just wondering how


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

itsme said:


> i didnt mean to ruffle anyones feathers, this was more of an archery participation comment, or a question why isnt archery bigger. FITA wasnt the issue, just an example, but someone informs me this site is more NFAA oriented. but by some comments, it gives me an idea. back to golf, theres one governing body, the USGA (in the states that is, the R&A across the pond), how many governing bodies are there in archery? im just curious, the club membership numbers do not show at field events, no matter the format. im all for growing the sport of archery, just wondering how


How many governing bodies in archery? IMHO too many.

For 3-D you have the IBO and ASA

For target/field you have the NAA, NFAA and FITA

So....depending on what game you like to play you have a different governing organization and rules to contend with.

The biggest question I have that pertains to archery and golf...both of which require tons of practice to be proficient...why is golf growing and archery isn't?


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

itsme said:


> i didnt mean to ruffle anyones feathers, this was more of an archery participation comment, or a question why isnt archery bigger. FITA wasnt the issue, just an example, but someone informs me this site is more NFAA oriented. but by some comments, it gives me an idea. back to golf, theres one governing body, the USGA (in the states that is, the R&A across the pond), how many governing bodies are there in archery? im just curious, the club membership numbers do not show at field events, no matter the format. im all for growing the sport of archery, just wondering how


This isn't an NFAA forum really....but FITA and field are two different games and we have a different forum for FITA. :wink:

There are a ton of governing bodies in archery....and that is part of the problem. 

As for the dress codes....I have shot some where every weekend but 2 I think since the weather started getting nice...Sticky is one of the only guys I have shot with or seen in camo on a field course this year.:wink: I like the dress code idea....have no problem with it what so ever. Guys complain about something no matter what. But really I like the no camo rules....we are shooting target archery...not hunting. Although some of the gear maybe the same....I don't think we need to be perfectly still and sneak up on any of the targets to score well. :wink:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

No way I'm wearing camo with some of the folks I shoot with. Bright red shirt and even considering some blaze orange. :tongue:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

pragmatic_lee said:


> No way I'm wearing camo with some of the folks I shoot with. Bright red shirt and even considering some blaze orange. :tongue:


 I think that is why Sticky wears camo....so he can hide after he punches one up in the wood.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> This isn't an NFAA forum really....but FITA and field are two different games and we have a different forum for FITA. :wink:
> 
> There are a ton of governing bodies in archery....and that is part of the problem.
> 
> As for the dress codes....I have shot some where every weekend but 2 I think since the weather started getting nice...Sticky is one of the only guys I have shot with or seen in camo on a field course this year.:wink: I like the dress code idea....have no problem with it what so ever. Guys complain about something no matter what. But really I like the no camo rules....we are shooting target archery...not hunting. Although some of the gear maybe the same....I don't think we need to be perfectly still and sneak up on any of the targets to score well. :wink:





pragmatic_lee said:


> No way I'm wearing camo with some of the folks I shoot with. Bright red shirt and even considering some blaze orange. :tongue:


I did it for the extra pockets afforded by my camo pants so's I could get some mugshots of you clowns on the course.. :chortle:

I have no problem with dress codes.. for the majority of the NFAA shoots I've participated in, I usually wear a pair of shorts and a collared short.. no biggie.. heck.. I wore a coat and tie to school for six years too...  :chortle:


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

IGluIt4U said:


> I did it for the extra pockets afforded by my camo pants so's I can get some mugshots of you clowns on the course.. :chortle:
> 
> I have no problem with dress codes.. for the majority of the NFAA shoots I've participated in, I usually wear a pair of shorts and a collared short.. no biggie.. heck.. I wore a coat and tie to school for six years too... D :chortle:



If this the same sticky that was at the Hill who sported the camo pants each day.....:tongue: I think the pockets were more for holding empties on the left and coldies on the right!!!!:wink::tongue:


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Yeah!*

If Sticky ever gives up archery? He should be a part time PI. We shot with him all day, and never even knew he had a camera, with him! Til we got home, and found ourselves on AT.! LOL!!


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

IGluIt4U said:


> *I did it for the extra pockets afforded by my camo pants *so's I could get some mugshots of you clowns on the course.. :chortle:
> 
> I have no problem with dress codes.. for the majority of the NFAA shoots I've participated in, I usually wear a pair of shorts and a collared short.. no biggie.. heck.. *I wore a coat and tie to school for six years* too...  :chortle:


*
Can you say "cargo pants"* :wink:

*I thought I recognized this pix.*


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

X Hunter said:


> If this the same sticky that was at the Hill who sported the camo pants each day.....:tongue: I think the pockets were more for holding empties on the left and coldies on the right!!!!:wink::tongue:


Well, you can't deny the benefit of large pockets when drinkin... :thumb: :darkbeer:


pennysdad said:


> If Sticky ever gives up archery? He should be a part time PI. We shot with him all day, and never even knew he had a camera, with him! Til we got home, and found ourselves on AT.! LOL!!


 My objective it to get the pic without the subjects realizing they are being photo'd.. it makes for better pics when the subjects don't ham it up.. :wink: :cheers:


pragmatic_lee said:


> *
> Can you say "cargo pants"* :wink:
> 
> *I thought I recognized this pix.*


  

No, we couldn't wear shorts to school.. :nono: :chortle: :wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

IGluIt4U said:


> Well, you can't deny the benefit of large pockets when drinkin... :thumb: :darkbeer:


You didn't notice that I hade full pockets on the Segway:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> You didn't notice that I hade full pockets on the Segway:wink:


Nope...we were too busy getting out of the way!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Nope...we were too busy getting out of the way!


Hey I got good on that thing....the only person that needed to keep an eye out was X Hunter....I was trying to run over his CrapWeisers:wink:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> You didn't notice that I hade full pockets on the Segway:wink:


Yea, I'm amazed you didn't have a bit wet spot after that spill ya took..  :wink:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> Hey I got good on that thing....the only person that needed to keep an eye out was X Hunter....I was trying to run over his *CrapWeisers*:wink:


Don't know what to think of someone that would bring "foreign" beer to the Hillbilly.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

IGluIt4U said:


> Yea, I'm amazed you didn't have a bit wet spot after that spill ya took..  :wink:


That was in the learning stages....I only had one in my hand on that crash and I didn't even spill that one


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Is that a camera in your pocket or are you just glad to see...


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Is that a camera in your pocket or are you just glad to see...


 Damm.. I need to go on a diet.. :mg: :embara: 

Musta been after drinking much beer... :tongue: :chortle: and yes, that's a :cam: :wink:


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## itsme (Nov 6, 2007)

boy, talk about taking something and running with it, you guys are pretty good, i'll watch the examples i use next time. pretty funny stuff though. how long have ya had those pictures in the holster? my point really was why are other sports growing (besides golf) and archery is not as quick? my example just was to relate how there are so many organizations ruling one sport, and is that a prob?


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

:chortle: Welcome to our world:wink: 

That pic of Sticky is from a couple weeks ago....the other one lord knows where that comes from....I think the guys cruise around looking for pics they "may" be able to use later

Archery has to find a new blood to tap into...and also get the idea of target archery and hunting seperated....a lot of people don't like hunting but don't mind or would like target archery. I have run into TONS of people that fit this description.....

I shoot at a public range and every time I shoot some one drives up and watches....most people think archery and they think hunting....and they are in awe with my target bow and what you can actually do with a bow. :wink:


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> :chortle: Welcome to our world:wink:
> 
> That pic of Sticky is from a couple weeks ago....the other one lord knows where that comes from....I think the guys cruise around looking for pics they "may" be able to use later
> 
> ...


I'm calling BS on this!!!


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

itsme said:


> boy, talk about taking something and running with it, you guys are pretty good, i'll watch the examples i use next time. pretty funny stuff though. how long have ya had those pictures in the holster? my point really was why are other sports growing (besides golf) and archery is not as quick? my example just was to relate how there are so many organizations ruling one sport, and is that a prob?


Those pictures are less than a month old. :wink:

I think everyone realizes your point, but the regulars in this forum are a fun loving crazy bunch! Don't take it personal that your thread got hi-jacked. :tongue:

Personally, I think the reason archery hasn't grown "in the public eye", is that, for the most part, the general public equates archery with hunting. Not that that is bad, but hunting is not longer a "main stream" sport.

Another reason is that practically the only exposure the public gets to archery is either hunting shows or the occasional few minutes of Olympic coverage.

So what is the solution.
1) Make the LOCAL TV stations aware of locale "organized" events. I've said it before and I'll say it again - these folks are starved for new material to air.

2) Just like the local TV stations are starved for new stuff, the same is true for local newspapers.

Once you get the local media involved and they start reaping the benefits the main stream will quickly pick up on it. Think about it, 15 years ago, who would have thought there would be TV channels dedicated to strictly golf & tennis?


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> I'm calling BS on this!!!


Of course you would be....you don't shoot past 40 yds and you are one of the guys that always has a hunting setup:embara:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> :chortle: Welcome to our world:wink:
> 
> That pic of Sticky is from a couple weeks ago....the other one lord knows where that comes from....I think the guys cruise around looking for pics they "may" be able to use later
> 
> ...


What they are in awe of is that an elf can actually shoot a bow. :wink:

But I know what you mean. At DCWC, there are 3 targets that are shot from either the incoming road shoulder or very close to it. The gun/pistol people almost always slow down or stop if someone happens to be shooting those targets at the time they drive by.

I live in a rural area and (weather permitting) shoot in my yard every day. I've had folks to just stop in the road and watch. Even had one guy driving a farm tractor pull over, open the cab door and ask if it'd be OK if he watched for a while. 

Very few folks other than archers themselves have ever seen a bow dressed in anything other than camo. When they see a target colored bow, a stab sticking out nearly 3 feet, and a scope on a bow COUPLED with us dressed in a quiver, binos, bambi bag, etc., they are, indeed, in awe!


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## itsme (Nov 6, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> :chortle: Welcome to our world:wink:
> 
> That pic of Sticky is from a couple weeks ago....the other one lord knows where that comes from....I think the guys cruise around looking for pics they "may" be able to use later
> 
> ...


well thanks for the input Hornet, im new to the sport, and i was just hoping to see more big events, even without being a sanctioned event, i.e. hillbilly open, bigfoot open, etc thanks for your help


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

itsme said:


> well thanks for the input Hornet, im new to the sport, and i was just hoping to see more big events, even without being a sanctioned event, i.e. hillbilly open, bigfoot open, etc thanks for your help


Where are you from - chances are there are folks on here that would welcome you to come shoot with them. That's the way I got involved with the "crazy" bunch I shoot with. :wink:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

pragmatic_lee said:


> What they are in awe of is that an elf can actually shoot a bow. :wink:
> 
> But I know what you mean. At DCWC, there are 3 targets that are shot from either the incoming road shoulder or very close to it. The gun/pistol people almost always slow down or stop if someone happens to be shooting those targets at the time they drive by.
> 
> ...


Agreed... I practice at home, either in the yard where I stand by the front street and shoot alongside the house, or in an adjacent field if it ain't full of sports activities in the evenings.. I always get some gawkers walking or driving by.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Yep, gotta agree with Hornet and pragmatic_lee on the separation of hunting and target archery. Unfortunately hunting gets a bad rap...especially here in MD.  Not sure how to achieve it...but it needs to be done.

I hate to throw this out there...but I will. Maybe we need a high profile individual to jump on the band-wagon. Remember when actress Genna Davis tried-out for the Olympic archery team 4 years ago? Archery got some short lived...but badly needed exposure.

OK...I'm putting on the flak-jacket...jab away. :wink:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

mdbowhunter said:


> Yep, gotta agree with Hornet and pragmatic_lee on the separation of hunting and target archery. Unfortunately hunting gets a bad rap...especially here in MD.  Not sure how to achieve it...but it needs to be done.
> 
> I hate to throw this out there...but I will. Maybe we need a high profile individual to jump on the band-wagon. Remember when actress Genna Davis tried-out for the Olympic archery team 4 years ago? Archery got some short lived...but badly needed exposure.
> 
> OK...I'm putting on the flak-jacket...jab away. :wink:


Jerry,
No need for the flak-jacket. What you're saying has a lot of truth to it.

Archery needs one of the following to get main stream attention:
1) A celebrity to tell the world they enjoy archery.
2) A "poster" boy/girl (sorry Hinky) :wink:
3) A "bad" boy/girl (Cuz, that wasn't enough - got to do it to every target)
4) All of "US" to quit preaching to the choir and waiting on others to do something - we all (myself included) need to do more archery promotion to "those that don't know or understand" what it is about.

OK, let me get down from my soap box before I fall off. :wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Jerry,
> No need for the flak-jacket. What you're saying has a lot of truth to it.
> 
> Archery needs one of the following to get main stream attention:
> ...


Yep, agreed. Hey, it gets crowded on that soapbox sometimes. 

Think about the boost golf has received since Tiger Woods arrived. :tongue: Just amazing.  Heck, I think golf is downright boring on TV...but I will sit there and watch that man work his magic.

Now, if we could just duplicate a small portion of that excitement for archery.


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

bowhnter7 said:


> Yeah even in golf you get to hit the ball (shoot and arrow) more than once a stake. :wink:


Shoot field. It's a 112 arrows, 4 per target.:wink:


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Jerry,
> No need for the flak-jacket. What you're saying has a lot of truth to it.
> 
> Archery needs one of the following to get main stream attention:
> ...


1) We've had that with Bill Shatner, Ted Nugent and Geena Davis.

2) Tried that With Justin Huish, didn't work out so well in the end:wink:

3) No we need an outright Villain, who knows how to play the role. I've said it before (But Javi, that slacker won't step up to the plate:becky but a Dale Earnhardt type. "Treachery and experience beats youth every time". Now if that ain't a Mantra for a senior pro, I dunno what is:tongue:

4) need some renegade to start a small or state shoot series and con some hapless sponsor from outside the trade into underwriting it. The way the X guys did with a dead product like Mountain Dew, or every one else did with Red Bull, gods alive that guy sponsors everything _*except*_ archery, and hes got 200 million to spread around now that he had to get rid of one of his Formula One teams


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

I believe that the major difference in popularity between both sports is the fact that a bow has always been and will always be considered a weapon. Wars were waged with the instrument we choose to compete with. That stigma is probably the number one reason IMHO that golf has succeeded and archery has not.

Nobody has fought a war using golf clubs at least to my knowledge.

Look at the awe that is held for women archers. We hold the women in our sport in higher regard than women are held in golf, I believe because of the perception of women being proficient with weapons.


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

swerve said:


> I believe that the major difference in popularity between both sports is the fact that a bow has always been and will always be considered a weapon. Wars were waged with the instrument we choose to compete with. That stigma is probably the number one reason IMHO that golf has succeeded and archery has not.
> 
> Nobody has fought a war using golf clubs at least to my knowledge.
> 
> Look at the awe that is held for women archers. We hold the women in our sport in higher regard than women ar held in golf, I believe because of the perception of women being proficient with weapons.


What you never heard of "The Golf War"??? It was in all the papers:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

I was going to mention Dale, but figured a lot of the "children" on here would have only heard of him and not witnessed it themselves.

On the flip side is, I don't know who that Decosta kid is at the Nationals, but he's got to be setting records in the Cubs class - may be a "Jeff Gordon" in the works.

Now if those guys in "The Legend of Ricky Bobby" had a bow sponsor on their car, our used target bows would probably be worth a lot more. :wink:


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Hutnicks said:


> What you never heard of "The Golf War"??? It was in all the papers:


Too bad it wasn't true, then we would be on PAR:wink:

Me BAAAD


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

swerve said:


> I believe that the major difference in popularity between both sports is the fact that a bow has always been and will always be considered a weapon. Wars were waged with the instrument we choose to compete with. That stigma is probably the number one reason IMHO that golf has succeeded and archery has not.
> 
> Nobody has fought a war using golf clubs at least to my knowledge.
> 
> Look at the awe that is held for women archers. We hold the women in our sport in higher regard than women are held in golf, I believe because of the perception of women being proficient with weapons.


But look at how NASCAR got its start - North Carolina moonshiners!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

1. We don't need a celeb....archery already has them. 

2. Poster boy/girl....we have those as well. Remember Laura:wink: Now just pick a guy but there are tons of them to choose from...guys and girls.

3. Villian...we have those also....Click....OBT....ME...I could go on and on. Heck The Bird Man is already looked at like Ike is on the BASS tour.

4. Promotion is the key.....cameras need to roll....ESPN needs to pick up a real archery shoot. Not that crap in the Great Outdoors Games.ukey: 

What most don't know is that 3D could and would be as big as BASS is IF the people at the ASA didn't have their head stuck up there mud chute.:wink: They used to pay out WAY MORE then they do know...the Classic winner and SOY made more then you would for winning Vegas....and that was just the check from the ASA. Also a couple years ago there was an sponsorship offer on the table that was thrown back in the face of that company....seems the ASA didn't want any of Budweisers money:faint:


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> But look at how NASCAR got its start - North Carolina moonshiners!


Not much on Nascar, but have always been fond of moonshiners:wink: Something about throwing a finger at the government gets me going.

Cars everybody has one and 90% drive way faster than they should or a capable of. There's the connection


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Brown Hornet said:


> 1. We don't need a celeb....archery already has them.
> 
> 2. Poster boy/girl....we have those as well. Remember Laura:wink: Now just pick a guy but there are tons of them to choose from...guys and girls.
> 
> ...


Not exactly the whole story on the Beer money...


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> 1. We don't need a celeb....archery already has them.
> 
> 2. Poster boy/girl....we have those as well. Remember Laura:wink: Now just pick a guy but there are tons of them to choose from...guys and girls.
> 
> ...


You are never going to get cameras out there until you have a media savvy sponsor to pressure them into it, period. And quite frankly bow companies know about as much about sport marketing as an ostrich:wink:

As for your list of villains. Well that was good for a laugh. To be a decent villain you have to actually start the controversy and then make it work for you, not against you, you have to be able to truly persuade folks that the path of darkness and evil is in fact the righteous way to go:wink: A true villian would have ended that arrow scam in Vegas coming out of the meeting with a rule stating the only actual _*legal*_ arrow was the one in _*his*_ quiver at any given time, and made the org think it was all their idea in the first place.: The true villain would have taken just as many clicks as he darn well wanted, and then busted some other hapless sod on a minor infraction to cover it over.

The true villain would only ever outshoot you by one point. Just so you can hobble off with the illusion that if you practice a million hours a week, next year you'll be able to nail his butt, cause after all he only smoked you by a point. Only to find out next year that he buries your sorry self again...........by one point:wink:

And the true villain would never ever ever flip a finger, he does'nt have to cuz you *feel* that finger every time he's around.

You fellas go eat your happy meals, and drink your cool aid:tongue: When a real Villain shows up,..............you'll know it:becky:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> 1. We don't need a celeb....archery already has them.
> 
> 2. Poster boy/girl....we have those as well. Remember Laura:wink: Now just pick a guy but there are tons of them to choose from...guys and girls.
> 
> ...


Promotion is the key...yes. But ya gotta give ESPN or anybody else a darn good reason to be there. Big money...celebrities...maybe both. :tongue: All I know is the present cast of characters isn't getting much attention. Maybe they are too boring...or too nice. 

And sorry Hornet...you may *WANT* to be a villain... but you ain't! :wink:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

And a true villain would wait until you're at full draw before goosing you. :wink:











Sorry Hornet, but this pix is just too good not to find a way to bring it in the conversation at lease every 2 weeks. :tongue:


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## itsme (Nov 6, 2007)

another question, (sorry) not only national attention, but what about local shoots. i dont know in archery what your code of ethics are, but what about money shoots, like golf tournament with flights, eveybody gets some (sorry hornet), and you get get to shoot in the same field as the top dogs, (local that is) everyone has a chance to get paid, just an idea, like to see more big shoots with everyone


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JAVI said:


> Not exactly the whole story on the Beer money...


well they should have figured out a way to make it work between them:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Hutnicks said:


> You are never going to get cameras out there until you have a media savvy sponsor to pressure them into it, period. And quite frankly bow companies know about as much about sport marketing as an ostrich:wink:
> 
> As for your list of villains. Well that was good for a laugh. To be a decent villain you have to actually start the controversy and then make it work for you, not against you, you have to be able to truly persuade folks that the path of darkness and evil is in fact the righteous way to go:wink: A true villian would have ended that arrow scam in Vegas coming out of the meeting with a rule stating the only actual _*legal*_ arrow was the one in _*his*_ quiver at any given time, and made the org think it was all their idea in the first place.: The true villain would have taken just as many clicks as he darn well wanted, and then busted some other hapless sod on a minor infraction to cover it over.
> 
> ...



I don't know any villians in anything that fit what you have layed out....heck even the super villians in the comic books aren't like that:doh:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Promotion is the key...yes. But ya gotta give ESPN or anybody else a darn good reason to be there. Big money...celebrities...maybe both. :tongue: All I know is the present cast of characters isn't getting much attention. Maybe they are too boring...or too nice.
> 
> And sorry Hornet...you may *WANT* to be a villain... but you ain't! :wink:


You all need to get off the celeb kick....F a celeb.  No sports tap into the celeb relam to get going.....you take the big dawgs you have and make them a household name. Take fishing....they didn't get some celeb that likes to fish and use him as their big draw...they used the Gorrilla they already had....and used KVD. If you can't use the likes of say Dave Cousins....Hopkins...or McCarthy then Toby McGuire isn't going to do it either:wink:

Just because you know I am a great friend and know me....doesn't mean that I am not one of the most hated:wink: Do a poll on the most hated ATers....and the top 5 will include me, OBT, and DeadX :wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

itsme said:


> another question, (sorry) not only national attention, but what about local shoots. i dont know in archery what your code of ethics are, but what about money shoots, like golf tournament with flights, eveybody gets some (sorry hornet), and you get get to shoot in the same field as the top dogs, (local that is) everyone has a chance to get paid, just an idea, like to see more big shoots with everyone


This is a touchy subject.....IMO there should be ZERO money in archery even contingency money UNLESS YOU SHOOT PRO. Look up the definition of an Amateur:wink:

Local shoots for the most part that include $$ usually have a money class that is separate from the other classes. If you win anything usually it's enough to get your entry back, a case of beer, a burger and some gas $$ to get back home.:wink:

But if someone wants to shoot for change they need to turn PRO.....


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> I don't know any villians in anything that fit what you have layed out....heck even the super villians in the comic books aren't like that:doh:


There's the problem: Comic book mentallity from the org on down:wink: You all don't seem to understand that without a real villian out there, there can be no polar opposite to run thing's correctly.


But no fear there Hornet, there are those out there to whom a Peter Straub Novel is just a self help book:becky:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Hutnicks said:


> There's the problem: Comic book mentallity from the org on down:wink: You all don't seem to understand that without a real villian out there, there can be no polar opposite to run thing's correctly.
> 
> 
> But no fear there Hornet, there are those out there to whom a Peter Straub Novel is just a self help book:becky:


Well I can turn into a SUPER Villian....and I know how to call to be my running buddies


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> Well I can turn into a SUPER Villian....and I know how to call to be my running buddies


Sorry man, but you just don't qualify You either have the attitude that the world was created as some elaborate joke solely for your own personal amusement, or you don't.:wink: Anyone with a thumbs up in their sig just isn't on that page. Villains never use simple hand gestures, the whole *point* is you get the message without em!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Hutnicks said:


> Sorry man, but you just don't qualify You either have the attitude that the world was created as some elaborate joke solely for your own personal amusement, or you don't.:wink: Anyone with a thumbs up in their sig just isn't on that page. Villains never use simple hand gestures, the whole *point* is you get the message without em!


and see that is where you have been fooled.:wink: 

You haven't had an actual sit down with me....or a conversation on the phone or by PM

But your problem is that you are using the OLD super villain criteria....this is 2008:wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Brown Hornet said:


> I don't know any villians in anything that fit what you have layed out....heck even the super villians in the comic books aren't like that:doh:


Donald Trump...:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JAVI said:


> Donald Trump...:wink:


Mark Cuban.....perfect new age villian.

Speaking of Cuban someone needs to give him a call...he is just what archery needs....:thumb:

That thumb is for you Hutty:wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

If I were younger like say Hinky, Jesse, and Chance, Dan, Levi or even Tim’s age… I would get a good sports agent to represent me. 

If I were younger, I would find a good sports marketing team and put together an organization to represent professional archers and promote a venue that could be televised.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JAVI said:


> If I were younger like say Hinky, Jesse, and Chance, Dan, Levi or even Tim’s age… I would get a good sports agent to represent me.
> 
> If I were younger, I would find a good sports marketing team and put together an organization to represent professional archers and promote a venue that could be televised.


If I was good I would also


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> . . .We don't need a celeb....archery already has them.
> 
> 2. Poster boy/girl....we have those as well. Remember Laura:wink: Now just pick a guy but there are tons of them to choose from...guys and girls.
> 
> ...


Agreed. No Celebs. . .they only draw celeb fans, not Archery Fans. They clog the course with non-participants and generally the only person that gets the publicity is the celeb. Nah- Celebs are not the key.

Like Hornet said. . .I think that _promotion_ is the key. In order for promotion to happen, there needs to be three things. . .first off is an organized bunch of people doing something interesting, and secondly- awareness by a large media outlet of these people doing something interesting- and third, there needs to be a financial element to the activity. Look around at Nascar events. . .there are tons of companies promoting their products. . .lots of money to be made by catering to the interests of the folks not only participating, but who may be interested in participating (or just rooting for their favorite good guy/bad guy). We have almost all of these things. . .just no real organization as a group. Lots of people shoot Field, but not all of them are organized and unified under a single entity. 

Just my $.02. . .


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

JAVI said:


> Donald Trump...:wink:


Gotta admit, he came close, but fell on the comic sword and became a parody of his former self


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

JAVI said:


> If I were younger like say Hinky, Jesse, and Chance, Dan, Levi or even Tim’s age… I would get a good sports agent to represent me.
> 
> If I were younger, I would find a good sports marketing team and put together an organization to represent professional archers and promote a venue that could be televised.


Excellent idea! Javi. It never hurts to get the help of the experts.:thumbs_up (that thumbs _*NOT*_ for you hornet).

But with an aging population and pharmacoms ooozing money out the ying yang, I think you are in a _*perfect*_ spot there. You Monseiur Javelina may just be the perfect demographic to break through into super stardom:wink: Start of with a senoirs tour (get to build your own org, cause the Never FearArchery Association won't do it) Fund it with a zillion bucks worth of pharma money to promote joint and muscle healing drugs and shoulder replacement implants. Haul in 200 tons of dirt and turf to the AstroDome like the monster truck yahoo's do. Knock up a 28 station field range and shoot out for a meg or so.


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## McCann (Feb 27, 2005)

Archery will never keep up with golf. 

In golf a player PRO or JOE is as apt to call a penalty on himself as is his competitor. EVEN if that penalty is going to cost him dearly. 
In archery when a PRO is caught inadvertantly breaking the rules the sanctioning body won't say anything or hold him accountable for his transgresion. Can you imagine a Hopkins, Ulmer, Griggs, or Cousins being disqualified for not signing a score card in a national championship level event. It would simply not happen. But in golf it does happen. Look at Michelle Wie just a few weeks ago.

In golf there are independent officials. They are not competing for the prize, they are there to uphold the rules and standards of the game. They uphold the integrity of the game. They are not looking at the results and changing how ties are decided to improve their own positon or the position of a friend.

In short until the governing bodies stand up and say this is how it is and this is how we will function as a governing body. AND HOLD THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR INFRACTIONS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THOSE INFRACTIONS!!!!!!!!!! Archery will never have the respectability of golf. 



Marc


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

McCann said:


> Archery will never keep up with golf.
> 
> In golf a player PRO or JOE is as apt to call a penalty on himself as is his competitor. EVEN if that penalty is going to cost him dearly.
> In archery when a PRO is caught inadvertantly breaking the rules the sanctioning body won't say anything or hold him accountable for his transgresion. Can you imagine a Hopkins, Ulmer, Griggs, or Cousins being disqualified for not signing a score card in a national championship level event. It would simply not happen. But in golf it does happen. Look at Michelle Wie just a few weeks ago.
> ...


Wasn't always that way in golf.... The players got together and formed the PGA Tour...


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## McCann (Feb 27, 2005)

JAVI said:


> Wasn't always that way in golf.... The players got together and formed the PGA Tour...


My point exactly. low rents and pencil winners need voted out of their districts and people who care about their sport needs to be put in.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

When archery garners the kind of money that Golf does currently, then you'll have a chance... til then, there is really no comparison. :nono:


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## itsme (Nov 6, 2007)

IGluIt4U said:


> When archery garners the kind of money that Golf does currently, then you'll have a chance... til then, there is really no comparison. :nono:


initially i wasnt trying to say there will ever be as much money in archery as there is golf, i was wondering why archery didnt catch on. look at every public golf course, packed in season, paying $40 or more a round. and the amount of archery club members who pay once a year, dont support the clubs with participation, not trying to start friction, i have seen this type of question here before, just never heard an answer. i know the people are out there, seen the turnout numbers at Cumberland, bet y'all even had fun. just wish every event was like that


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## McCann (Feb 27, 2005)

IGluIt4U said:


> When archery garners the kind of money that Golf does currently, then you'll have a chance... til then, there is really no comparison. :nono:


I have to totally disagree with you. 

Archery is where it is because of how it operates. Golf is where it is because how it operates.

For archery to ever think about garnering the kind of money that golf garners ARCHERY has to step up and quit being its own worst enemy.

Marc


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Personally, I hope archery never gets the money that golf has.. it will take the fun out of it for many. :wink:


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## McCann (Feb 27, 2005)

IGluIt4U said:


> Personally, I hope archery never gets the money that golf has.. it will take the fun out of it for many. :wink:


I can definitly agree to alot of that statement:darkbeer:

but to answer the question posted in another thread.........

.........why should I spend my hard earned money to travel to a regional, sectional or national shoot to be by a dill weed with THE pen??????

......I can stay at home and be beat by an eraser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wink:

Marc


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

golf doesnt bribe people to come play the game they play because they want to. stop treating the sport of archery like someone owes you something because you showed up.

one example about golf is that people want to play with the boardroom. the boardroom heads out there and does under the table deals so no one can cry shenanigans. many people play golf to schmooze the boss. how many people REALLY enjoy playing? when's the last time the boss said hey, lets go out and shoot a half round of hunter targets? almost never, its always golf they go play.

sadly, archery has a bubba image attached to it. get past that part and let people see how it really is and things may change.

archery also has a problem because it involves the use of 'projectiles'. and we all know how anti-projectile society is these days.

get past the bad public relations images and the infighting and this sport may begin to grow.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Interesting, according to a Golf Digest article earlier this year, they proclaimed...........Golf participation was dwindling......yup, dwindling. Apparently the baby boomers are not out swinging the sticks like they used to, and the younger crowds would rather skate, BMX, or some of the other X game type stuff.

Golf is often compared to archery for the reasons outlined above by numerous other posters.

At the end of the day though, it is all about demographics. Golf got big because corporate types, sales types, exec types etc, could take client out on the golf course. Everyone played. It was the thing to do, take your client golfing. Golf appealed to the upper-middle class to wealthy demographic. Enter Tiger Woods. He transcended the game, brining in interest from even more corporate types, the types with tons of expendible cash on hand. Just the demographic that advertisers were looking for and willing to pay top dollar to reach.

What is the demographic for archers?

On a side note.......the beer thing with the ASA is way off base........and there was no logical way to work it out safely. Of course there are still those within the ASA that state there was never any attempts by Bud or any other Beer companies to become a sponsor...........


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