# Bob Eyler and Drugs



## fiddler green (Apr 11, 2013)

Yep!

He's not a senior: He's 39. And, they have been testing the pros for a while.

October 1, 2018

USADA announced today that an arbitrator from the American Arbitration Association (AAA) has rendered a decision in the case of archery athlete Bob Eyler, of Dundee, Mich., and has determined that Eyler should receive a two-year sanction after testing positive for two prohibited substances at the Vegas Shoot on February 11, 2018, which is organized by the National Field Archery Association.

Eyler, 39, tested positive for propranolol and carboxy-tetrahydrocannabinol (carboxy-THC), the urinary metabolite of THC, the principal psychoactive constituent of marijuana and/or hashish, above the decision limit of 180 ng/mL, as a result of a urine sample collected in-competition on February 11, 2018, after winning the Vegas Shoot. Propranolol is a Specified Substance in the category of Beta Blockers and prohibited at all times in in the sports of shooting and archery. Marijuana and hashish are Specified Substances in the class of Cannabinoids and prohibited in-competition under the USADA Protocol for Olympic and Paralympic Movement Testing, the United States Olympic Committee National Anti-Doping Policies, and the World Archery Federation Anti-Doping Rules, all of which have adopted the World Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Agency Prohibited List.

After a full evidentiary hearing, the independent arbitrator imposed a two-year period of ineligibility because Eyler did not familiarize himself with the applicable rules prior to competing. The arbitrator noted that if pleading lack of familiarity with the rules was a valid excuse, then the anti-doping rules would be meaningless.


AAA Award

Eyler’s two-year period of ineligibility began on September 28, 2018, the date his sanction was imposed. As a result of the doping violation, Eyler’s competitive results obtained on and subsequent to February 11, 2018, the date his positive sample was collected, have been disqualified, and any medals, points, and prizes are forfeited. Accordingly, Eyler’s results have been disqualified from the Vegas Shoot, the Indoor NFAA Nationals held on March 10-11, 2018, and an Archery Shooter’s Association event in London, Kentucky held on May 31, 2018. Eyler also forfeits $52,000 in prize money from the Vegas Shoot.

This decision, as well as other arbitral decisions, can be found here.

In an effort to aid athletes, as well as support team members such as parents and coaches, in understanding the rules applicable to them, USADA provides comprehensive instruction on its website on the testing process and prohibited substances, how to obtain permission to use a necessary medication, and the risks and dangers of taking supplements (www.Supplement411.org) as well as performance-enhancing and recreational drugs. In addition, USADA manages a drug reference hotline, Global Drug Reference Online (www.GlobalDRO.com), conducts educational sessions with National Governing Bodies and their athletes, and distributes a multitude of educational materials, such as an easy-reference wallet card with examples of prohibited and permitted substances, a supplement guide, an athlete handbook, and periodic alerts and advisories.

Along with education and testing, robust anti-doping programs enable investigations stemming from tips and whistleblowers. USADA makes available a number of ways to report the abuse of performance-enhancing drugs in sport in an effort to protect clean athletes and promote clean competition. Any tip can be reported using the USADA Play Clean Tip Center, by email at [email protected], by phone at 1-877-Play Clean (1-877-752-9253) or by mail.

USADA is responsible for the testing and results management process for athletes in the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Movement and is equally dedicated to preserving the integrity of sport through research initiatives and educational programs.


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

OUCH !!!

I would imagine that even with a prescription for them a letter from a physician would probably be needed if a shooter who actually needed them decided to shoot in a pro class.


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## fiddler green (Apr 11, 2013)

OhWell said:


> OUCH !!!
> 
> I would imagine that even with a prescription for them a letter from a physician would probably be needed if a shooter who actually needed them decided to shoot in a pro class.


Pretty sure it wouldn't be allowed: even with a note from the shooter's mother.


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## IBOHunt3D (Jun 6, 2006)

If you are taking meds such as beta blockers, and that is the only medication that will treat your given condition, you can get a Therapeutic Use Exemption. There is a form that your doctor will fill out, then send to someone at the USADA and/or the tournament governing body. Doing so keeps everything above board, so to speak.


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## john800 (Nov 18, 2015)

So, with the way the shootoff went with bob beating out the “ lucky dog” what does that do to the finish? I would say the guy who was he last shooter in the shoot off should win, whoch would move him from something like 14th to 1st.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Back in 2010 I was flying to Albuquerque to shoot USA Archery Indoor Nationals. I was warned by my coach to make sure I was not taking any drugs that were WADA restricted since I could be tested. The biggest potential culprit in my mind was Scopolamine that I took for motion sickness. I went on the WADA website and looked it up and found it to be okay. I decided to check out my other medications and got a hit on the beta blocker. Beta blockers are restricted for target sports since they slow the heart rate. They are fine for other sports. I went cold turkey off the beta blocker and shot the tournament. I had a choice at the time of either trying to get a therapeutic use exemption (TUE) or change medications. I went with the latter. About a year later they relaxed the penalties for non competitive shooters (in other words, shooters that are not expected to place high). Before that, we were subject to the same two year penalty. I studied the rules and they are extremely restrictive to the point that they can complicate necessary medical treatments such as transfusions.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

If the are strict about testing senior archers, it will wipe out the class. Many seniors I know take quite a few medications including beta blockers. 

Can we even get a TUE for beta blockers?

Obviously if have to choose living or competing, I'll choose life, but won't be happy about having to choose.

Allen


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

Did they only check the pro that wins in Vegas ?


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

nock tune said:


> Did they only check the pro that wins in Vegas ?


"All archers that place in the top 3 of their Championship divisions will be subject to testing in accordance with WADA’s World Anti-Doping Code and the World Archery Anti-Doping Rules. All other participants may be chosen at random. Senior, Young Adult and Barebow divisions are exempt."


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## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

IBOHunt3D said:


> If you are taking meds such as beta blockers, and that is the only medication that will treat your given condition, you can get a Therapeutic Use Exemption. There is a form that your doctor will fill out, then send to someone at the USADA and/or the tournament governing body. Doing so keeps everything above board, so to speak.




I'm not a senior, so iI'll say this as quietly and respectful as Possible... The problem with trying to get a TUE for something like a beta blocker in a shooting sport is it will fall under the responsibility of the athlete to prove that the substance [the beta in this case] will not otherwise give a performance advantage. As an example, in many endurance and strength sports, athletes will sometimes try to use insulin and IGFs [insulin-like growth factors] to speed recovery after workouts- Normally banned, but as a diabetic I can [and have had in the past... I gave up competition for a while and let it run out] a TUE for insulin. Also, during competitions syringes/injections are banned, but again because of the diabetes and the fact it would not otherwise give me a significant performance edge over other athletes, they are included in my ]now expired] TUE. 

The CAS [Court for Arbitration in Sport, an international body similar to the AAA that handed the archer in question his findings], has already ruled twice in the past few years against the athletes in both cases, for the use of a couple different betas in competition. 

So, if you fear, or know you'll be in the pool for testing, talk to your doctor about alternatives... In the case of betas for cardiac conditions, there may be another prescription and/or treatment that could be as effective. I had to make this very descision with my doctor in the past few months [apparently a foot amputation could cause enough stress to raise your blood pressure... who knew???], and while betas would have been the simpler solution [aside from the fact my doctor kept saying "betas make you feel stupid..." but then he knows I want to compete internationally again so he did say it as a joke], we worked out different options to keep BPs down in the range of "acceptable." Just some serious conversations to have with your doctors if you're going to be in that position. 

I graciously thank you all for allowing me to grace the pages of your forum; while I feared being tossed as a young whipper-snapper and being told to get off your lawn [out of your forum], this is probably long enough you've probably forgotten what I said in the beginning. [Little smilie face inserted right here]. 

Seriously though, when in doubt call the U.S. Anti Doping Agency, I've always found them to be very helpful in answering any questions on the use of prescriptions in sports. Second, make sure to also check with your event organizers... For example, alcohol is no longer on the WADA/USADA list in competition, but World Archery [and I'm thinking the NFAA Vegas as well] still tests for it, so make yourself aware of any additional tests an organizer might impose. 

Thank you.


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

"TheBlindArcher" said:


> I'm not a senior, so iI'll say this as quietly and respectful as Possible... The problem with trying to get a TUE for something like a beta blocker in a shooting sport is it will fall under the responsibility of the athlete to prove that the substance [the beta in this case] will not otherwise give a performance advantage. As an example, in many endurance and strength sports, athletes will sometimes try to use insulin and IGFs [insulin-like growth factors] to speed recovery after workouts- Normally banned, but as a diabetic I can [and have had in the past... I gave up competition for a while and let it run out] a TUE for insulin. Also, during competitions syringes/injections are banned, but again because of the diabetes and the fact it would not otherwise give me a significant performance edge over other athletes, they are included in my ]now expired] TUE.
> 
> The CAS [Court for Arbitration in Sport, an international body similar to the AAA that handed the archer in question his findings], has already ruled twice in the past few years against the athletes in both cases, for the use of a couple different betas in competition.
> 
> ...


I tried to read your whole post but I kept nodding off...LOL

I am a senior and I appreciate your comments. This subject has been of interest to me mainly because I am in the opposite pool. The last time i had it checked it was 110/62. The self use meters are the pharmacy sometimes don't even read my BP at all. I take some other meds that I would presume are not on any list but I need to check as I will be competing again in 2019.

For those that need the BB's I hope there are alternatives because to force someone to choose their health over their passion is a crime. I may be forced to make that kind of decision in the near future so it has already been on my mind and that is not an easy decision sometimes.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

I am one of the one's who cannot even slightly change my medications. It took nearly a decade to find the meds to keep me within a non stroke/dosing off range. When I go into a hospital I have to get a waiver to take my own meds if the hospital pharmacy does not have exactly the meds I take which our hospital doesn't. Until I took action to refused their drugs and took my own I had twice had additional days in the hospital due to them being concerned about my blood pressure readings on their meds which were similar meds but not exactly the same...... I had my first heart attack at age 17 and my first stroke at age 32 and have been on beta blockers since the 80's. My condition is acute labile malignant hypertension.... until just recently I had no idea I was taking archery restrictive meds (beta blocker and a diuretic). I only shot locally within up to a 3 hour drive and the only big shoot would be the Classic. I could apply for a TUE and go through all that nonsense and most likely be denied in the end due to the meds effects or just not shoot the Classic and only shoot local club fun shoots. I chose the latter........ I can have as much fun as a spectator at Spooky Nook talking with other barebow archers, not donate my $150 entry fee to the class winning pot, not need a hotel room, not buy 2-3 day's with of meals and beverages locally, not go through the BS to try and get a TUE, and not be concerned about my health or a urine test. I am sure I am far from the only senior facing this decision and effectively these restrictions will reduce participation numbers in a sport already suffering lack of participants. But, I do see their point if people are taking these meds to cheat and not for a verifiable medical need. I don't see how being constantly tired and running to a toilet is a unfair advantage but I know that are its side effect for me.  I know when I move to the Villages I could pretty much bet that 70% of those shooting at their club will be on some sort of restrictive medication and will not care one way or the other who is or isn't....... beta blockers and diuretics are taken like multi vitamins with most seniors 

I would surely much prefer not to have my health issue and not take these meds but I do and I have to take them to stay alive......... if that means no competitive archery so be it....... my competitive prime days have long since past and not shooting competitions won't bother me a bit. Might bother the top 3 finishers prize monies though, the shoot promoters and sponsors, and the local businesses.  Will have no ill effects on me as I am happy to just still be able to shoot a recurve whether in the backyard, at a practice range, or a fun club shoot. I shoot for fun and my own pleasure and don't need to shoot against anyone to still enjoy myself.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

JimDE said:


> I am one of the one's who cannot even slightly change my medications. It took nearly a decade to find the meds to keep me within a non stroke/dosing off range. When I go into a hospital I have to get a waiver to take my own meds if the hospital pharmacy does not have exactly the meds I take which our hospital doesn't. Until I took action to refused their drugs and took my own I had twice had additional days in the hospital due to them being concerned about my blood pressure readings on their meds which were similar meds but not exactly the same...... I had my first heart attack at age 17 and my first stroke at age 32 and have been on beta blockers since the 80's. My condition is acute labile malignant hypertension.... until just recently I had no idea I was taking archery restrictive meds (beta blocker and a diuretic). I only shot locally within up to a 3 hour drive and the only big shoot would be the Classic. I could apply for a TUE and go through all that nonsense and most likely be denied in the end due to the meds effects or just not shoot the Classic and only shoot local club fun shoots. I chose the latter........ I can have as much fun as a spectator at Spooky Nook talking with other barebow archers, not donate my $150 entry fee to the class winning pot, not need a hotel room, not buy 2-3 day's with of meals and beverages locally, not go through the BS to try and get a TUE, and not be concerned about my health or a urine test. I am sure I am far from the only senior facing this decision and effectively these restrictions will reduce participation numbers in a sport already suffering lack of participants. But, I do see their point if people are taking these meds to cheat and not for a verifiable medical need. I don't see how being constantly tired and running to a toilet is a unfair advantage but I know that are its side effect for me.  I know when I move to the Villages I could pretty much bet that 70% of those shooting at their club will be on some sort of restrictive medication and will not care one way or the other who is or isn't....... beta blockers and diuretics are taken like multi vitamins with most seniors
> 
> I would surely much prefer not to have my health issue and not take these meds but I do and I have to take them to stay alive......... if that means no competitive archery so be it....... my competitive prime days have long since past and not shooting competitions won't bother me a bit. Might bother the top 3 finishers prize monies though, the shoot promoters and sponsors, and the local businesses.  Will have no ill effects on me as I am happy to just still be able to shoot a recurve whether in the backyard, at a practice range, or a fun club shoot. I shoot for fun and my own pleasure and don't need to shoot against anyone to still enjoy myself.


For the record, drug testing is not/has not be used at the LAS Classic, or any other non-World Archery sanctioned event in the United States, so except for elite level archers that are actually capable of getting on the podium in the premier divisions, it's not really something typical archers have to concern themselves with at this time, and certainly not a reason not to attend/compete. Even in Vegas, Championship Senior was not tested, presumably due to the considerations for the health of the senior archers.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

I guess it’s like “the tree falling in the forest” scenario. If a med is listed as a illegal substance for competition then if one uses it, whether actually tested for it or not, would that be considered cheating in fellow archers minds? 

We saw the world 3D guys with binoculars ranging targets and archers consider that cheating but see no issues with people ranging field targets with their risers.... both techically are using something to determine the distance of a unmarked distance target and both are very accurate methods. When I shot bowhunter limited 3D shoots we all used our sight pins to range targets but were not allowed any optic other than a monocular but ranging with anything other than ones eye and mind is still ranging and technically illegal but some methods are accepted by the same archers who think the other methods is cheating. My view is a old view I just don’t think binoculars should be allowed at unmarked events as the IBO started with ... if they are allowed at a event I see their use no different than ranging with a pin sight or a riser but that is me. Archers are funny and always have been with rules and class divisions making the most minute distinctions to divide themselves.... I see this drug issue becoming yet another source for debate and division. 

How would a fellow competitor feel if they were beat out by one point knowing the archer who beat them was on a enhancing prescribed medication but not tested? Me? I would not care because I don’t take competition that seriously but I know people who do and live and breath it. I just would not like to be seen as a cheater because I have to take a restricted med for health reasons. I am a rules type guy and worked a career that was rules orientated and the idea of others thinking I am cheating bothers me whether tested for it, having a get out of jail free TUE card, or whatever. Rules are rules ..... ( yeah I used sight pins in my class to range but we all did and no competitor in that class called it cheating though really it could of been even though we all shared this method with other archers) 

So just like the tree falling in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make noise debate.....Is it or isn’t it cheating shooting while on a prescribed known restricted medication if you are not tested for it???


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

IMO, you're over-thinking it. Beta Blockers and other calming medications don't necessarily provide an advantage to an average archer in normal shooting scenarios. Their potential to provide an advantage is in high stress situations where elevated heart rate and "nerves" typically deteriorate the archers performance. To be blunt, the stakes are not high enough at most archery events to justify the cost or the logistics of drug testing, even if it can reasonably be assumed some archers are gaining advantage from them.

I would also argue there's nothing particularly unique about archery with regard people skirting the rules, or obviously breaking rules but not getting caught because of insufficient controls. In the case of Vegas, all the competitors in the listed divisions had explicit knowledge that they would be tested based on their finishing position, so I think that's a different scenario than bending rules because "everyone does it" and the probability of getting caught is low.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

nestly, Oh I agree on archery is not unique with rules skirting....... it seems to be everywhere where competition, pride, and prize money are at stake. I see it at Sporting Clays events, golf courses, Skeet shoots, Hunting, fishing, etc... nearly everywhere where people try and find a edge over their competition. 

My point is until a few weeks ago I had no idea my meds were prohibited so ignorance was bliss. Now that I know and having a _rules type personality_ if I shot the Classic I would know I was breaking the rules and even having a TUE would not negate the so called perceived advantages these meds are supposed to create (I don't see them but I have been on them for 30 plus years... maybe it is my normal  ). Over thinking? Quite possibly! But, it would play on my mind while shooting and if I did have a exceptional banner qualification round this would in effect reduce my fun factor of the moment and replace it with guilt for knowingly shooting illegally or with a perceived pharmaceutical advantage....... was it me or my beta-blockers or diuretics. Knowing that all these years I have been shooting competitions on these prohibitive meds already is bothering me....


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

I posed this question to as a and ibo...with the advent of serious money prizes in some of the pro classes drug testing seems inevitable...i was told by BOTH groups that they were not interested in drug testing, and that they did not plan on doing so...


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

JimDE said:


> Now that I know and having a _rules type personality_ if I shot the Classic I would know I was breaking the rules ...


Why do you think you'd be breaking a rule?
LAS Classic is not (at least not currently) subject to USADA or WADA anti-doping policy, so AFAIK, there are no prohibited drugs or medications at LAS Classic (or any other non WA sanctioned event in the USA) other than those substances already regulated by the US or State laws.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

Maybe I just assumed as the Barebow class is regulated by WA regulations that the drug issues were as well...... if the Classic is not run with this drug regulations then your are right I would not be breaking the rules there... I am going to call John Wert and ask him... thanks I may get to participate after all!


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

So at the Classic Beta Blockers are against the rules but they don’t drug test...so it’s essentially the rolling stop conundrum( coming to a 4 way stop intersection in the middle of nowhere and no one around in any direction... do you come to a complete stop and follow the rules or do you do a rolling stop because no one will ever know but you?)

Rules are rules even if you are the only one who knows you broke them....at least to a rules oriented person and yes I come to a full stop too


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

JimDE said:


> So at the Classic Beta Blockers are against the rules but they don’t drug test..


Are you stating that as a fact or as an assumption. AFAIK LAS Classic is not sanctioned by World Archery, and has no specific drug rules of its own so why is shooting Classic different than shooting other tournaments, even local club level events? Even in Vegas, they ommited seniors from drug test requirements. 
I dont think WADA/UDASA is out to get archers that have legit medical needs, they are interested in ensuring those who play at the very top level arent using meds to enhance their performance. 
If you havent done so already, i would call or message LAS and ask them if they have a problem with senior archers with prescriptions shooting their tournament. Im pretty sure I know the answer but if you have that concern you should just ask.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

Fact: from conversation with a staff member of Lancaster Archery......The reply was beta-blockers are illegal in archery competitions to use to ones advantage but in my case it would be a _grey area_. Now "grey area" means it is illegal but up to selective interpretation. 

I realize the intent of the shooting organization to stop intentional pharmaceutical induced advantages by those looking to get a edge on their competition by illegal use of such medicines and agree fully. But using beta blockers are blankly deemed illegal in precision shooting sports and have been upheld twice in the WADA/UDASA in arbitrations in favor of the rule not the archer who seeked a TUE. I agree that such restrictions do obviously effect Seniors far more than others in restricting actual meds they are on to sustain life and not seek a advantage over competitors.... nice to hear Las Vegas omitted Seniors from testing maybe all organizations should in the case of drugs that are commonly used in Seniors.

But we are back to square one.... it is illegal to have beta blockers in your system in archery competitions ...... in the case of the Classic it is illegal but they don't test so only the archers own integrity governs their own actions. Do you compete knowing you are on the beta blockers strictly for health reasons and not performance or do you not compete because you know you have a deemed illegal drug in your system that could be deemed a unfair advantage over your competition?


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

JimDE said:


> ...so it’s essentially the rolling stop conundrum( coming to a 4 way stop intersection in the middle of nowhere and no one around in any direction... do you come to a complete stop and follow the rules or do you do a rolling stop because no one will ever know but you?)


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

JimDE said:


> Fact: from conversation with a staff member of Lancaster Archery......The reply was beta-blockers are illegal in archery competitions to use to ones advantage but in my case it would be a _grey area_. Now "grey area" means it is illegal but up to selective interpretation.
> 
> I realize the intent of the shooting organization to stop intentional pharmaceutical induced advantages by those looking to get a edge on their competition by illegal use of such medicines and agree fully. But using beta blockers are blankly deemed illegal in precision shooting sports and have been upheld twice in the WADA/UDASA in arbitrations in favor of the rule not the archer who seeked a TUE. I agree that such restrictions do obviously effect Seniors far more than others in restricting actual meds they are on to sustain life and not seek a advantage over competitors.... nice to hear Las Vegas omitted Seniors from testing maybe all organizations should in the case of drugs that are commonly used in Seniors.
> 
> But we are back to square one.... it is illegal to have beta blockers in your system in archery competitions ...... in the case of the Classic it is illegal but they don't test so only the archers own integrity governs their own actions. Do you compete knowing you are on the beta blockers strictly for health reasons and not performance or do you not compete because you know you have a deemed illegal drug in your system that could be deemed a unfair advantage over your competition?


Thanks for the info and follow up. You should have asked them one more question. "Should myself and all the other seniors with BB scripts stay home that weekend, or come and shoot the Classic like we did in the past and would have done again this year except for a guy named Bob Eyler?"

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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

They left the decision to participate or not up to the individual archer and how they determine grey areas...... they will not test the archers so it’s the rolling stop conundrums. I am sure they understand the difference between those taking meds for a advantage and to cheat and those who take them for health.... me I like things defined with little room for grey areas. If it’s illegal it’s illegal and if it’s not it’s not. I could live as I think all senior archer could with a age limit set that archers over this redline age have no medication restrictions at all. Let us shoot as long as we can! But this is not how it currently is.... so we each have to make our own minds up on this issue and what direction we will go. It’s not Lancaster Archery’s fault the substances are deemed prohibitive it’s actialky the fault of those who have taken these substances to enhance their performance chemically in order to win. Without these cheaters rules like these would be un-necessary and non existent. 

If we need to affix blame some where we need to blame the cheaters!!! Up until a few weeks ago I never knew my meds could of labeled me a cheater in the eyes of organized shooting sports.... live and learn!


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

When I previewed my post before submitting it, this video from my Youtube account was viewable. However, when I posted it, this showed up. Any ideas?




Arcus said:


>


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

JimDE said:


> They left the decision to participate or not up to the individual archer and how they determine grey areas...... they will not test the archers so it’s the rolling stop conundrums. I am sure they understand the difference between those taking meds for a advantage and to cheat and those who take them for health.... me I like things defined with little room for grey areas. If it’s illegal it’s illegal and if it’s not it’s not. I could live as I think all senior archer could with a age limit set that archers over this redline age have no medication restrictions at all. Let us shoot as long as we can! But this is not how it currently is.... so we each have to make our own minds up on this issue and what direction we will go. It’s not Lancaster Archery’s fault the substances are deemed prohibitive it’s actialky the fault of those who have taken these substances to enhance their performance chemically in order to win. Without these cheaters rules like these would be un-necessary and non existent.
> 
> If we need to affix blame some where we need to blame the cheaters!!! Up until a few weeks ago I never knew my meds could of labeled me a cheater in the eyes of organized shooting sports.... live and learn!


I'm not advocating anyone go against any rules or their conscious, but if someone chooses not to attend the Classic for the reasons you've outlined, then wouldn't they also have to stop participating in any form of archery competition, even local/club leagues? As I understand it, Beta Blockers do not provide any particular benefit to an archer simply shooting archery, there has to be a significant stress component, which the BB suppresses to some extent.

If there's a reason NOT to drug test, this is it. Some people that shouldn't be concerned about their prescriptions suddenly get all paranoid they may get "caught" and stop participating, but in reality, most of those people have about a zero chance of ever being caught/tested because nobody cares until/unless they get to the highest level of competition when there's significant cash or prestige at stake.

I dunno. I don't use any banned meds to enhance my performance, so until/unless I enter a tournament that requires me to sign a drug testing waiver, I'm going to be mindful of what I put into my body, but I'm not giving up competition. I'll be at LAS Classic again this year, and I hope you will be as well.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

You are right..... it stops shooting in all competition technically. Which for me would be just the Classic as I don’t shoot for score at my local club no matter what the event any way. If I am not turning in a score card I am not competing but shooting for myself and my enjoyment. Only I know how I would of placed against the other shooters and that is enough for me. If a shoot is more than a 3 hour drive it might as well be being held in Siberia to me as I won’t attend it. Spooky Nook is a bit over a hour from me. 

As of right now I am still processing this situation but rules are rules ..... if I don’t shoot the Classic I will be a spectator for the Barebow class Friday and Sunday most likely. If not I will watch it on live stream Sunday.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

Arcus said:


> When I previewed my post before submitting it, this video from my Youtube account was viewable. However, when I posted it, this showed up. Any ideas?


Never mind. It fixed itself. Hmm.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Arcus said:


> Never mind. It fixed itself. Hmm.


It popped up that it wasn't available.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

carlosii said:


> It popped up that it wasn't available.


It's going back and forth. I don't understand what's going on with it.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Arcus said:


> It's going back and forth. I don't understand what's going on with it.


Says "unavailable". If its your vid make sure its public....if not only you can see it and only when your logged into youtube

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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

nestly said:


> Says "unavailable". If its your vid make sure its public....if not only you can see it and only when your logged into youtube


Thanks. Looks like that was the problem. However, the timing of the attempted humor has now passed. At least I learned something for future reference.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Arcus said:


> Thanks. Looks like that was the problem. However, the timing of the attempted humor has now passed. At least I learned something for future reference.


A good one like that is never too late. Thanks.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

JimDE said:


> So at the Classic Beta Blockers are against the rules but they don’t drug test...so it’s essentially the rolling stop conundrum( coming to a 4 way stop intersection in the middle of nowhere and no one around in any direction... do you come to a complete stop and follow the rules or do you do a rolling stop because no one will ever know but you?)
> 
> Rules are rules even if you are the only one who knows you broke them....at least to a rules oriented person and yes I come to a full stop too


It's called Integrity...something that is surely missed these days


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't think ASA would be prepared to pay for all the drug testing of even the top three finishers in each pro class.


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## Fdale's Finest (Oct 19, 2007)

aread said:


> If the are strict about testing senior archers, it will wipe out the class. Many seniors I know take quite a few medications including beta blockers.
> 
> Can we even get a TUE for beta blockers?
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with you.

I had a widow-maker heart attack at 43 with a 100% blockage of the LAD artery. It was only 7 months after I won the Brazillian Jiu Jitsu Pan Ams. I was put on beta blockers for 4 years. I never had high blood pressure ever other than the day I had the heart attack but boy did the beta blockers lower my pressure. While in cardiac rehab the nurses would always asked if I felt faint. My blood pressure was usually about 90/60 vs my normal 120/80. So I can see why it is a banned substance but if you need it medically I can't see how they could legally deny you. And if they did I would sue.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Fdale's Finest said:


> ....So I can see why it is a banned substance but if you need it medically I can't see how they could legally deny you. And if they did I would sue.


You couldn't win that case because WADA only has authority to regulate those who *choose* to compete under their anti-doping regulations. The individual always has the choice to put their well-being ahead of their desire to compete (in certain divisions). You're not going to be successful suing an airline to let you be a pilot if you have certain medical conditions that require certain types of medications... tough break, but some medical conditions are going to limit your jobs/hobbies.


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## Fdale's Finest (Oct 19, 2007)

nestly said:


> You couldn't win that case because WADA only has authority to regulate those who *choose* to compete under their anti-doping regulations. The individual always has the choice to put their well-being ahead of their desire to compete (in certain divisions). You're not going to be successful suing an airline to let you be a pilot if you have certain medical conditions that require certain types of medications... tough break, but you're just going to have to find another job/hobby.


It really doesn’t matter for me so it’s a mute point. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

The reality is there is only a handful of archers on AT that need to be concerned.


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## f_thomas (Oct 12, 2006)

I get the reason Eyler was sanctioned. But as a 65 year old Disabled Veteran, like many here, there are medications that are not as optional. No one mentioned the Americans With Disabilities Act. Wonder if it would make a difference?


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## f_thomas (Oct 12, 2006)

Well, I am taking a P1 Beta Blocker and guess I should apply for a TUE so when I win the Gold I can keep it. I still think that WA may be in violation of the ADA. 

As a 65 year old Disabled Veteran I am not going to worry about it. 

If WA is exclusionary of Seniors and other who medically require medication frequently and commonly used to treat specific diseases such as High Blood Pressure then they are the problem.


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## glencf (Nov 16, 2016)

I doubt being high on THC is going to make you shoot better .


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

f_thomas said:


> I still think that WA may be in violation of the ADA.


Curious to understand your reasoning that WA, or WORLD Archery, would be in violation of an AMERICAN law.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

glencf said:


> I doubt being high on THC is going to make you shoot better .


Try it before you come to that conclusion. 

Thing it, it probably won’t make you shoot “better”, but clearly it might help you not shoot worse in a pressure situation. Subtle difference, but significant in a sport where a millimeter is the difference between winning and losing.


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## f_thomas (Oct 12, 2006)

Stash said:


> f_thomas said:
> 
> 
> > I still think that WA may be in violation of the ADA.
> ...


The US supports and competes in the Olympics and there are competitions held in the US that fall under WADA and others governing bodies in many sports. I am not a lawyer or expert, but I believe parts of the ADA would require accommodation for a number of things to include medication.

I did some searches and found "National Senior Games Association", which looks promising for us older people and offers competition in archery. 

nsga.com

It would be interesting to know how they handle BB's required as a prophylactic to control blood pressure and prevent stroke and heart attack for Senior Athletes or any athlete for that matter.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

As far as I know, where "over 50" classes exist, they are not subject to WADA anti-doping regulations. so we really should stop talking about theoretical situations that do not exist.

As for ADA, being used as a legal defense, I don't think that would fly either as the athletes that are subject to anti-doping know they are subject and consent to it prior to competition. It's not different than banned substances in any other sport, occupation, or activity. You could not sue an airline to allow you to be a pilot just because you have a "disability" that requires certain types of medications that are banned for pilots, and you couldn't successfully sue the NFL, MLB, or NBA to permit certain banned substances either whether you have a legit "disability" or not. Life is not fair, not everyone can do everything/anything, and I refer to my first sentence.... for the most part, in archery, the instances where an regulated archer would be in jeopardy because of a *required* medication are relatively rare... almost entirely theoretical.


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## f_thomas (Oct 12, 2006)

Nestly, thanks for the perspective. I much prefer to focus on the positive gained from participation in a sport that has meant so much to me.


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