# Critique my form / Bow



## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Hi there,

New archer here looking for some input on my mechanics. I know the picture I am about to upload is not the ideal view point but I'll get more ASAP. First some back story on me.

1. I ma 6'6" with a 78" wingspan. If I measure my draw length as per the John Dudley YouTube Video I get 31.5 - 31.75 each time I try. 
2. My bow is a Diamond Infinite Edge Pro at MAX draw setting. I now know the ATA of this bow (31") is not ideal for a person of my height
3. I am RIGHT handed but have very little vision out of my right eye so I shoot lefty

I hope the above data is useful. 

Now for a self critique. 

1. My head is forward which most would think is a peep height issue. I believe the real issue is in order for me to get my nose to the string I have to pitch forward. If I draw my bow with my eyes closed and anchor then put my nose on the string the peep is perfect. 
2. I am slightly hitched at the hip. More leaning back I think. 
3. My rear shoulder/elbow seems too high. I am thinking/hoping this is a result of the pitched forward head. 


That's all I have... Looking for input!

I am fearful that I might be developing bad habits if I continue with the short ATA bow. Thoughts on that? 

Thank you for your time!

Chris

The pic (again I'll get a better angle ASAP)


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

OK, new picture of my draw. Lines on the garage door are perfectly level.


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Here is a pic with my draw anchored. This gives us (me) an idea just how sharp the string is angled and how much i have to pitch my head forward. On the plus side pitching my head forward doesn't seem to mess too bad with my rear shoulder. Down side I think it is high in both shots.


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Sorry the arrow is never perfectly level... I was doing this without help.


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Had my wife help me out with a couple more pics of my form. The arrow is pretty level in these shots. Same thing here. One is full draw and anchor the other is anchor plus pitching my head forward to get to the string.


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

In these last two photos, the first one looks good but it is obvious your draw length is too short for you. See how far forward on your face the release hand is and how high your drawing elbow is?
Second, it is clear that for you the nose on the string is NOT for you. See how awkward you look in the second picture? The nose on the string is just one "guideline" that SOME can use but many cannot. IF it works fine but for you and your size it cannot be a player. Keep your head up as in the first picture and reset your peep so you can see through it.

I'd suggest that you need a bow with much larger axle to axle sizing and more draw length capability. You still will never probably get to a compound setup that allows YOU to get nose on the string so give that up! Also, do not use some measurement divided by some other arbitrary number to determine draw length for you OR the bow!! That MAY get you in the ballpark but only actual work with the bow will tell you what YOU need.

Arne


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Moebow said:


> In these last two photos, the first one looks good but it is obvious your draw length is too short for you. See how far forward on your face the release hand is and how high your drawing elbow is?
> Second, it is clear that for you the nose on the string is NOT for you. See how awkward you look in the second picture? The nose on the string is just one "guideline" that SOME can use but many cannot. IF it works fine but for you and your size it cannot be a player. Keep your head up as in the first picture and reset your peep so you can see through it.
> 
> I'd suggest that you need a bow with much larger axle to axle sizing and more draw length capability. You still will never probably get to a compound setup that allows YOU to get nose on the string so give that up! Also, do not use some measurement divided by some other arbitrary number to determine draw length for you OR the bow!! That MAY get you in the ballpark but only actual work with the bow will tell you what YOU need.
> ...


Thank you so much Arne!

I was looking at the pics and thought the DL too short too. I was basing that on the videos of John Dudley and where the arrow nock should sit in on the face. I am no where near that!

Good to know that nose on the string might not be workable for me. I agree it is not natural feeling or looking. I am wondering if a kisser button might work with a proper draw. 

So I am thinking I may need to drop some coin on a long ATA bow. I am fearful that at 38" bow won't cut it (thinking specifically of the Diamond Medalist 38). I believe a 40" ATA would be better so now we are in Hoyt territory. It looks like I can get one or "around" 1k but based on the 31 or 31.5 DL of my current bow being too short I would need the #5 cams. I have found a LH 40" Prevail but it has the #4 cams. 

Thank you again for the help!

Chris


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Adjusted my peep up and did another photo. Head up and anchor back quite a bit. Much easier to work the release back there! Measured the draw length of the bow and at full stop I am 31.625. Thoughts on how much longer I need? Front elbow is looking pretty bent in the pic no?


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Yes, bow arm too bent now IMO. Keep bow arm straight but elbow NOT locked. Base knuckle of the release hand should fit into the pocket directly under your ear lobe at the back of your jaw. Base knuckle is the third joint in the index finger from the tip. Notice, though, as you get that release hand back farther how much your drawing elbow has lowered. I'd GUESS from the picture that you need at least 2 additional inches in the draw length setting of the bow. That may or may not be possible with the current bow, depends on the bow and the cams available for it.

Think of it this way, with your size, you are wanting to wear size 9 shoes, when in reality you really need 13 or 14 size to fit. Same with a bow!! Until you have a bow that will FIT, you will never be able to really address your form.

Arne


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Thank you again Arne I really appreciate the input. I totally understand about the front arm. I knew it was too bent and I think it would be hard to hold properly that way as well. This bow is maxed out. Looking at a PSE Beast ECS as that and the Bowtech BT Mag X are the two longest draw bows I can find anywhere. So +2" would put me about 33.5! Wow!

Bowtech Specs = 36 ATA 29-34 DL
PSE Specs = 38 ATA 27.5 - 33 DL

Might need to go with the Bow Tech but I *think* I like the longer ATA of the PSE... 

Thoughts?


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Not really. There are so many compounds out there that I don't even try to keep up with them. I will say that I think available draw length more important than ATA. It would be best to visit a dealer and try them and to not be "talked" into a compromise. Some dealers will try to sell what they have rather than what you NEED. If they won't or can't set a bow to what fits you and let you try it, look for another dealer. Not sure where Medina, OH is but it MAY be worth a trip to Lancaster to get some good hands on help. Good luck with your search!

Arne


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Yeah I believe I am going to have to make the trip to Lancaster. It's about 6 hours away though so not a short trip. 

Medina is about 30 or so mile south of Cleveland. 

Thank you ever so much for your continued help!


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Well I ditched my bow and I am working on getting a longer ATA replacement as I type. So that's step one. Also I have worked with nuts and bolts quite a bit via email and he has me tuned up pretty good using my trainer loop. Thanks for the help everyone!








With Gris Lines:


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Thanks!


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## Bassun (Jul 3, 2019)

Kind of a question, but considering the bow was maxed out in draw, could Chris not have extended his D-Loop to create a longer draw position lowering the rear angles? I get it would not change the bows draw, or any of the front end, but would that not have allowed him to at least settle in a bit more comfortably and lower the back elbow a bit? I ask since he was maxed out with his draw and the only option was to buy a new bow. What if he didn't have money for a new bow... what are the options? Longer strings/cables and throw off the cam timing? Longer Dloop? etc?

Not an issue for me, I'm the exact opposite, lol. I'm on the short end of everything, lol.


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

You are correct. I did add a longer D-Loop and that did help anchor point. The string angle was still too severe to get my nose to the string without bending my neck though. If I didn't have the monies for a new bow this would be the way I would have gone until I could save up for a new one. I was blessed to have a little savings to work with at the time. 

Chris


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## Bassun (Jul 3, 2019)

Cool deal. Was kind of just thinking through things 

Good luck with the new toy  I just came in from my first real shooting session in over 25 years on a new to me bow. Man...I missed it!


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Cool!

Yeah I can't believe how much I enjoy shooting! On one hand I wish I would have found this hobby/sport years ago. However, if I had I would have had to relearn to shoot left hand after I injured my right eye. All in God's timing... 

Chris


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Ok, finally got my longer ATA bow and had a little time to start to get used to it. Really trying to focus on my form right now. 

Hi Res pic:








With Grid Lines:








My stance is slightly open with my back foot square to the target. 

The bow is 37" ATA and a tick over 32" DL. 

Mathews Halon X Comp Loving it so far! Just need to get in better physical shape to be able to shoot it more! Working on that too.... 

Thanks,
Chris


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Chris, 
That looks sooo much better!! Bet it feels better too. :wink:

Arne


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Moebow said:


> Chris,
> That looks sooo much better!! Bet it feels better too. :wink:
> 
> Arne


Thank you for the feedback. Yes it does feel better for sure. I've really been working on my form as I draw so I end up standing straight up. I have (hopefully had) a bad habit of hitching my hips forward while drawing back. I wasn't using them to draw just ended up with them hitched forward so I was leaning back. Not that I am standing up right I am starting to work on my anchoring. 

Thanks again for the feedback!

Chris


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Is that a thumb release you are using or a hinge? You MAY want to flatten your hand to ABOUT 30* from flat (palm down ). When the hand is vertical (palm out) like that you don't get quite as good of a release action. Just another suggestion.

Arne


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Moebow said:


> Is that a thumb release you are using or a hinge? You MAY want to flatten your hand to ABOUT 30* from flat (palm down ). When the hand is vertical (palm out) like that you don't get quite as good of a release action. Just another suggestion.
> 
> Arne


It is a B3 ranger hinge. 

Thank you for the advice. I have tried some different hand positions but then I figured I needed to get my base fixed first!

Chris


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## kilerhamilton (Jul 19, 2010)

You look great in you’re last picture. Nice and comfortable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

kilerhamilton said:


> You look great in you’re last picture. Nice and comfortable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks!


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## ccm399 (May 27, 2019)

Been working with Nuts & Bolts on my form. Making progress....









He had me put the camera on the shooting line and we worked on getting my hips square and in alignment vertically. Now I just have to work on hitting this form consistently. My float pattern has calmed down a ton since getting to this form!

Chris


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ccm399 said:


> Been working with Nuts & Bolts on my form. Making progress....
> 
> View attachment 6915643
> 
> ...


Excellent. Much better.


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