# What we need....



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I was thinking about that today with that thread. Do you think OP's decide not to respond because they don't want to be brought into an argument? Some of these threads go south at times.


----------



## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

I just PM'ed the OP and gave him my thoughts and solutions.

No need to haggle here.


----------



## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Perhaps he just doesn't have anything to add? Could be he got all the info he was looking for and he's out shooting, trying it out lol. 

DM


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

It sure is a tough call for sure, I know that the only reason that the Padgett Articles even exist is because I got tired of typing the same stinking thing over and over. In this case when a guy starts a thread and then vanishes it would be nice if he is then working with someone in pm's that he likes if he would mention that in the thread so we can move on.

I know that especially in the general archery section I have been giving a much more introductory response to guys with more of a invite to pm me if they are interested in talking to me personally or getting my articles. It saves me so much time typing when they may not be interested.


----------



## Chase Hatcher (Jan 30, 2012)

Im the one whose post you are referring to. I'm giving all the solutions that were suggested a try. If I feel like I have to post something or am having trouble I will post something. _<edited>_


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Chase Hatcher said:


> Im the one whose post you are referring to. I'm giving all the solutions that were suggested a try. If I feel like I have to post something or am having trouble I will post something. Don't get your panties in a wad.


IMO Sonny is right. Remember, we don't get paid to do this. If you went to a coach as good as these guys, it would cost you hundreds. The courtesy of acknowledgement and maybe a little appreciation of what they've GIVEN you would be a good idea. 

All the other people I've met from Oklahoma had pretty good manners.

Allen


----------



## RobRiguez (Feb 24, 2015)

general forum etiquette is to at least respond to a thread you started. Preferably daily if not more often. 

This has nothing to do with archery but is the general consensus in most forums around the world about all topics. 

I'm not picking sides, its not personal. I'm just stating how I have always known it to be in my 20+ years as a forum/bbs junkie.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

First and last post should always be the OP with the last post being daily until the issue is resolved. But that is just my experience (15 years) with forums.

-Grant


----------



## Ruttinbulls (Jul 5, 2011)

Speaking for myself, I feel obliged to acknowledge those who have taken an interest in me and my needs, and have given of themselves, talents, experience and knowledge to help and/or reach out to me. I want to express my sincere gratitude to most if not all who are willing to give of themselves with nothing but a "thank you" in return. Just seems like the right way to respect others. My $0.02 worth.


----------



## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I would say, though, that RCR has a point too. I've seen threads get hijacked by keyboard warriors/self-appointed content moderators, several of which we have on this forum, and to whom I've been personally subjected, without solicitation, several times recently myself. These characters never impress me personally so I just blow them off and report them to the mods, but that's not always to the liking of other posters. So, to me, it's not a shame at all to abandon a thread that's been messed-upon in that manner and I don't fault anyone for doing it. 

At the same time, if I start a thread, I try not to argue incessantly with posters who try to present information that I've asked for - another tendency we see sometimes on here (definitely NOT in this case of course). I do try to acknowledge it and of course try it out. Once it's run its course, though, I'll leave the thread be if there's nothing more to be added or discussed.

DM


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Chase Hatcher said:


> Im the one whose post you are referring to. I'm giving all the solutions that were suggested a try. If I feel like I have to post something or am having trouble I will post something. _<edited>_


Not exactly referring to, but giving as a example. Trying to help and no word from a Poster sucks. Then a reply is discussed to length or disagreed with and the thread farther out of hand and may intimidate a Poster. Just a simple reply of "thanks" or "I will try such" would go a long ways....


----------



## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

I've seen threads hijacked also and that's a big no no, but with regard to content, when the forum was first established, it was done so with the intent that the membership would also have some responsibility of keeping the threads in line with the final say going to the mods. Therefore there are no self-appointed content moderators, but sometimes people forget that there are many more ways to skin a cat that those they may have been exposed to and spend too much bandwidth arguing their points without attempting to view the points made by the others. 

If some people get intimidated, remember this is the I/A forum and as such we have all learned that you need to have a thick skin to play in this sport. If they have not yet developed that, they will after more competition exposure and they will come to realize they should either not take it too seriously or learn to hiss back at the perpetrator and then offer to buy him/her a beer. :wink:


----------



## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

montigre said:


> I've seen threads hijacked also and that's a big no no, but with regard to content, when the forum was first established, it was done so with the intent that the membership would also have some responsibility of keeping the threads in line with the final say going to the mods. Therefore there are no self-appointed content moderators, but sometimes people forget that there are many more ways to skin a cat that those they may have been exposed to and spend too much bandwidth arguing their points without attempting to view the points made by the others.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I always insist that attackers address the _content_ of my posts for that reason; if they do that the threads can end up being very informative and valuable. I'm unmoved by contentless "what tournaments have you won lately?" personal attacks based in immature insecurities, though, so I don't persist with those attackers. I just refer them to the mods and go my own way. 

So to bring it round to my point: the main point of deterioration in a lot of these threads (my observation anyway) is when attempts are made to argue with these attackers - the attention leaves the content of the thread and it turns into long, torturous group therapy sessions for the attackers, whatever it might be that's bothering them. A huge mess for Mahly to clean up and bans and such seem to be the result in the end. 

So I invite others to simply not provide that therapy for the attackers and only dwell on the content of the thread. That, I have found, short circuits things nicely and keeps the threads as information-rich as possible.

DM


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Since this forum is specifically dedicated to performing at the intermediate and advanced level in competition the information contained within a post is entirely relative to the ability of the poster to perform or coach proven performers.

When someone makes a statement about a positive or negative effect any given technique or equipment has on their shooting the objective measure of their ability is absolutely relevant. Regardless of anyones feelings on the subject there should be a minimum level of demonstrated ability to contribute answers in this format.

Grant


----------



## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

grantmac said:


> Since this forum is specifically dedicated to performing at the intermediate and advanced level in competition the information contained within a post is entirely relative to the ability of the poster to perform or coach proven performers.
> 
> When someone makes a statement about a positive or negative effect any given technique or equipment has on their shooting the objective measure of their ability is absolutely relevant. Regardless of anyones feelings on the subject there should be a minimum level of demonstrated ability to contribute answers in this format.
> 
> Grant


But you and those others aren't the moderators of this forum, Mahly is. Neither you or the others impress me as anyone whose approval is needed to post in this forum. Speaking for myself, I'm more than happy to discuss the content of anything I or anyone else says, but the matter of credential verification isn't up to you. As I said, I'm quite happy to discuss any errors or other problems in any of the content that I offer here, but I don't engage in demonstrations of ability to you. Sorry.

Else, simply don't read my posts or those whose credentials may worry you, and I think you'll get along just fine.

DM


----------



## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

let's focus on 2 things:

1) Commenting on what works for you or others you have taught/coached. Not on telling others that they are "wrong".
It is very logical for one to assume that if the stated technique worked for you and a large number of individuals that you have helped, that it can be a technique that can help the one asking for the help.
The more people it helped, and the higher level that they achieve should be looked at as an indicator of how valuable the technique is, and how well the one teaching it conveys that information...or in there case of a high level shooter, how high one can advance using the technique in question.

That doesn't mean someone who doesn't have a bunch of gold medals or trained world champions doesn't have something to offer. On the contrary, their information MAY indeed be very helpful to the person asking. However, those that have not excelled in their own performance at a top level, or who have not had success with teaching a large number of students and getting them to excel, can not demand that their philosophies be taken as gospel or with the same weight as a successful archer or coach.
You need to be able to admit that while you think your techniques are best, there is not as much evidence to support your ideas as someone who has has more success teaching and/or doing....especially if your ideas counter those of the the well established.

Those that have succeeded at a high level, or coached others to a high level have earned the weight behind their words. That doesn't mean that the guy with an alternate/conflicting idea is "wrong", it just that he can not expect the same "gravitas" (SP?)

This forum was created with a certain level of "self-moderation" at it's core. There are a LOT of VERY smart, experienced archers/coaches here. At times their views will conflict. That's fine. We can have a discussion of why technique "X" works for one guy, and why technique "Y" works for the other. 
If the guy championing "X" has won world titles, and coached legions of students to success had to keep fighting with the guy championing "y", who has won a local 3-D shoot, and taught their kid to shoot.... well, you can understand why they might want to tell you to close your pie hole LOL!

I'm one of the guys who has not excelled as a pro, and has not coached a legion of olympic shooters. But I have spent 30 some years learning all I could about archery. I am an intermediate-advanced shooter.....probably closer to the intermediate, if for no other reason than I don't get to practice as much as I would like. That doesn't mean I don't know what I am doing, or that I shouldn't be allowed to help others who have the same problems I have worked through. But at the same time I realize I am not in a position to tell a top level shooter that they are wrong to dismiss my opinions. I will help as many as I can, but I am not going to tell others not to listen to a more accomplished coach than myself. I will explain what worked for me and why. If that helps, GREAT, if not try the next guy's idea....if he happens to be great, feel free to give his idea more effort than mine.

At the same time, I would rather learn from a guy like say "GRIV" than from Reo...even if Reo shoots better....to be fair, both a great....one is a better coach (IMO) than the other.

2) Sonny does bring up a good point. It certainly would be NICE if those starting threads remained active in them. It goers both ways. You want feed back on a problem....those helping you want feedback on their solutions. It helps everyone learn WHAT does and doesn't work for others. 

I have always said, you learn more as a teacher than as a student. Humility allows growth.

Be politie to each other and respectful in your disagreements...be willing to LEARN even when your trying to teach.


----------



## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Thanks Mahly. As a point of clarification vis-a-vis posting in Intermediate-Advanced, I consider myself a low to mid intermediate on the compound bow (but definitely NOT on the recurve bow), so I have no hesitation about posting experiences of mine here. Others' worries about my status, credentials or "demonstrated ability" are their problems, not mine. I post at the pleasure of Mahly and AT, and last I checked the forum rules, there was no "demonstrated ability to the satisfaction of <this_or_that_poster>" requirement there. If AT decides to impose one, then, of course, I'll move to comply.



> If the guy championing "X" has won world titles, and coached legions of students to success had to keep fighting with the guy championing "y", who has won a local 3-D shoot, and taught their kid to shoot.... well, you can understand why they might want to tell you to close your pie hole LOL!


True, but at the same time, just bragging that one has championed "X" for the purposes of demanding respect is another matter altogether from _actually having_ championed "X". If the latter is actually demonstrated (which is nearly impossible to do on an internet forum, but that's whole 'nother topic), then I'll start thinking about due deference.

But I certainly agree about the sheer amount and quality of info available here on AT. Yes, AT, like life, is like a rose garden, but one must always look out for the @@@@@s. 

K, I guess this horse is dead now.

DM


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Good post Mahly!!


----------

