# Sticky  Serving Nockset Tieing and D-Loops



## Deezlin

In this picture I have already determined the nock position. I have clamped a set of hemostats to the string to hold the position of the nock. I start the nockset by wrapping the serving around the string and crossing like the beginning of a square knot and then tighten.


----------



## Deezlin

After the first knot is positioned and tightened. I wrap the loose ends around the string and cross and then tighten the next knot opposite to the first. I will do this for 10 times to the lower end of the nockset and then 4 times to the top.


----------



## Deezlin

After I have completed 10 knots, terminated the lower set by tying a square knot and then will cut off the ends and melt the end and knot together.


----------



## Deezlin

I remove the hemastats and complete the top serving nockset. I allow about a total of 1/32 to maybe a 1/16 of clearance between the nocksets and the nock. This avoids nock pinch at full draw and does not seem to hurt arruracy.

This is the completed upper and lower nocksets.


----------



## Deezlin

*D-Loop*

I have completed tying in my D-loop. I melt the first ball on the rope and then wax the rope before beginning. I am left handed and if the loop looks backwards too you, it probably is. I do not hold my release tilted too much and I can see little importance as to which is tied which way. But, it is important to tie the knots opposite to each other.


----------



## Deezlin

To take up slack in the D-loop and tighten it. I insert a pair of needle nose pliers to open the loop.


----------



## Deezlin

Then I open the pliers with both hands to tighten the D-loop.


----------



## Deezlin

This is the completed D-loop. Now, may people feel the nockset should be equal is size so the release will be behind the nock. However, in actuality, you are pulling slightly up on the D-loop at full draw. IMO, the release is more behind the nock here than if the nocksets had been equal.

One other note, I use micro-adjustable rests. With a drop-away, I set the nock square to the rest. With a blade rest or non drop-aways, I usually set the nock about 1/8" high. I very rarely move the nocksets once they are tied. If you had to you can try to thread them down or up the center serving, sometimes this works. Normally though, I only make tuning adjustments at the cables or rest for eleveation.


----------



## marforme

Deezlin,

That is exactly how I do mine and it works great. Nice job on the visual for those who have not tried this yet. Unless something drastic changes in equipment, there is no reason to use another method than you have shown here.


----------



## nuts&bolts

matforme said:


> Deezlin,
> 
> That is exactly how I do mine and it works great. Nice job on the visual for those who have not tried this yet. Unless something drastic changes in equipment, there is no reason to use another method than you have shown here.


:hail:

thank you Deezlin.
Excellent photo-documentation.

The hemostat is a nice touch.


----------



## romad2006

*Awesome*

Now that is a quality post. This is exactally why I joined this site. I want to learn as much about archery as possible. I get so sick and tired of all the bashing that goes on here sometimes though, it really takes away from what this forum should really be about. Deezlin, that is what I call a good quality thread and an awesome contibution to this site. Thanks!!


----------



## pinkfletch

*I will use the hemostat trick*

You might like to try this. File a groove near the end of the pliers to help get a good lock on the loop.


----------



## Reefer

Great post, thank you very much.


----------



## tdaward

Maybe a picture of how to tie a D-loop would make this thread perfect!!!


----------



## francis

ttt


----------



## igniter3

Deezlin said:


> Now, may people feel the nockset should be equal is size so the release will be behind the nock.


Yes, that's what I thought..... I did mine equal in size. I will try more on bottom and less on top next time.
Very good info and photos.
Thanks,


----------



## Deezlin

A few people have asked about how to get the serving tight. This is one way I have used and it works great.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=375752


----------



## buckfeverben

Deezlin said:


> After the first knot is positioned and tightened. I wrap the loose ends around the string and cross and then tighten the next knot opposite to the first. I will do this for 10 times to the lower end of the nockset and then 4 times to the top.



What's the reasoning behind doing more knots at the bottom vs. the top? This is very similar to how I've been doing mine for a while now...great info...and great post Deezlin. 

Ben


----------



## 38chaz

Thanks Deezlin! Great Post. I am going to try this weekend.

CT


----------



## nuts&bolts

buckfeverben said:


> What's the reasoning behind doing more knots at the bottom vs. the top? This is very similar to how I've been doing mine for a while now...great info...and great post Deezlin.
> 
> Ben


Hello Ben:

It changes the center of force
for the d-loop.

The hook on your release will always find the "middle point"
of the d-loop by itself.

If the bottom knot is a little bigger,
it will put the nock of the arrow slightly above the "middle point"
of the d-loop.

This results in a slightly "down" pressure
on the arrow against the arrow rest.

Folks who do the larger
knot on the bottom of the nock
inside a d-loop also feel that it
helps the shooter to apply the pulling force more
directly behind the arrow.

It's how I always do mine, as well.
Deezlin just takes better pictures, than I do.


----------



## duxhunter

*d loop*



> But, it is important to tie the knots opposite to each other


What is the reason for the opposite knots? I have always seen the knots on the same side. I may need to change my d loop


----------



## Northforker

If you put the knots on the same side the D-Loop tends to rotate. This will give you peep alignment problems.


----------



## nutcase

Can someone explain how this is better than the "pro shops" and people that just tie a d-loop with no nocksets. I think i know but i would like one of the pro's to explain it


----------



## Deezlin

nutcase said:


> Can someone explain how this is better than the "pro shops" and people that just tie a d-loop with no nocksets. I think i know but i would like one of the pro's to explain it


This is to avoid nock pinch and to keep a reference, incase you want to change the loop. If you notice, I am using a "G" nock which is rather small. These nock-sets also help make the loop wide and hook up easier.


----------



## flyfishtn

Excellent how to, thank you for the visualizations, helps tremendously! :thumbs_up


----------



## 2LungKing

*question*

now those nock sets are not tied through the string do they slide up and down the string eventually ? does this have to be redone in the case of stretch ?


----------



## nuts&bolts

2LungKing said:


> now those nock sets are not tied through the string do they slide up and down the string eventually ? does this have to be redone in the case of stretch ?


Those are called tied nocking points
or tied nock sets.

After they are tied, just coat them with some superglue.

The tied nocking points
form a "series of grooves"
that mesh with the "grooves" in the center serving,
just like a nut going up and down a bolt.

No slipping.
Spins up and down the center serving.

Allows very fine adjustment.


----------



## XP35

Great post, Deezlin'! I have been using this method for a year or longer and it does work great. Excellent visuals, man.


----------



## jakano

sorry if this seems completely silly but what is that sting material called and where do you get it? i want to be able to set up and tune my new bow when i get it instead of taking it somewhere and paying someone to do it for me.


----------



## Deezlin

The serving I use is called Crown serving for the nocksets. I use .026 dia. The Damondback serving I use on the center serving is .022. Now, I have never been able to "thread" the nockset up or down the string. There is probably a combination of factors which causes this. Probably, the difference in the materials and diameters and I tie these very tight. I never really want them to move so I have accomplished my goal.

Some people like to move the nock to get proper arrow flight. I usually am lazy and use the micro adjustment on my rest. If you want to dynamically determine your precise nock point, you could simple attach a loop and then after you have done your tuning remove one end and replace it with a nockset then remove the other end of the loop and add the other nockset.


----------



## beenfarr

*cool*

subscription added!


----------



## WoolyWelsh

*Kudos for you, Deezlin*



Deezlin said:


> This is the completed D-loop. Now, may people feel the nockset should be equal is size so the release will be behind the nock. However, in actuality, you are pulling slightly up on the D-loop at full draw. IMO, the release is more behind the nock here than if the nocksets had been equal.
> 
> One other note, I use micro-adjustable rests. With a drop-away, I set the nock square to the rest. With a blade rest or non drop-aways, I usually set the nock about 1/8" high. I very rarely move the nocksets once they are tied. If you had to you can try to thread them down or up the center serving, sometimes this works. Normally though, I only make tuning adjustments at the cables or rest for eleveation.


Very good documentation and photography. You deserve an A.T. Member of the Year for all your time and effort. At the top! 

Can you explain what causes this: "However, in actuality, _*you are pulling slightly up*_ on the D-loop at full draw." What is it that causes the jaws (sears?) of the release to not go to the centre of the D-loop? I am completely :confused3:


----------



## Deezlin

WoolyWelsh said:


> Very good documentation and photography. You deserve an A.T. Member of the Year for all your time and effort. At the top!
> 
> Can you explain what causes this: "However, in actuality, _*you are pulling slightly up*_ on the D-loop at full draw." What is it that causes the jaws (sears?) of the release to not go to the centre of the D-loop? I am completely :confused3:


It is more or less the human form. Your elbow is higher than the release. Take a look at most of the pictures of people shooting with a loop at anchor. It may feel like you are pulling straight back, but you are not.


----------



## lvandev

Thanks for the information on serving for the nock. The pro shop where I bought my bow put the entire D loop below the nock. Is this OK or does it just a preference/practice alternative to a longer serving on the bottom per your method?


----------



## nuts&bolts

lvandev said:


> Thanks for the information on serving for the nock. The pro shop where I bought my bow put the entire D loop below the nock. Is this OK or does it just a preference/practice alternative to a longer serving on the bottom per your method?


Longer serving knot on the bottom of the arrow nock puts a little bit of down pressure on the blade launcher arrow rest.

Two d-loop knots under the arrow nock
puts even more down pressure on the blade launcher arrow rest.


----------



## BradMc26

What kind of serving marterial did Deezlin use?

One more quick question. How do you guys get the tied nocks and d-loop to slide up and down the string during paper tuning and nock placement?

I tried the tied nocks with 0.22 diameterserving string and couldnt get the nock or d-loop to move. I went to crimped nocks and untied the d-loop every time for each adjusment.

There has got to be an easier way.


----------



## Deezlin

lvandev said:


> Thanks for the information on serving for the nock. The pro shop where I bought my bow put the entire D loop below the nock. Is this OK or does it just a preference/practice alternative to a longer serving on the bottom per your method?


As Nuts & Bolts mention the D-loop under the nock has some advantages. Both of these methods does put more down pressure on the rest. So, you have to have the rest setup to resist this increase in pressure. Once the arrow is release, this pressure ceases, if there is too much it may be possible for the rest to flip the arrow up. So, excessive down pressure is something to be avoided as well.

The main thing I dislike about the D-loop under is being hard to hook up on. I feel my method is just easier to hook up on and the serving nock sets will not pinch the nock.

I was in Illinois one time, shooting in basically an open field. I was using an extremely light large diameter arrow with a low FOC. When I would draw the bow in a cross wind, the wind would blown off the arrow off the rest. The only way, I could shoot the bow that day was up wind or down wind. The reason for this was the arrow setup, nock pinch and not enough down pressure on the arrow. In this type of situation the nock pinch and extra down pressure was definitely needed.


----------



## phumb

deez, nice job. a couple of posts back i asked a question about a bow that i just bought, it was set up exactly like this. the problem was, there was no weight/pressure on the rest and the arrow drifted. i remove the top served nock, it seems to be better with some weight/tension on the rest(drop zone) what are ya thoughts on this, ever seen it? thanks again for quality post!


----------



## Deezlin

phumb said:


> deez, nice job. a couple of posts back i asked a question about a bow that i just bought, it was set up exactly like this. the problem was, there was no weight/pressure on the rest and the arrow drifted. i remove the top served nock, it seems to be better with some weight/tension on the rest(drop zone) what are ya thoughts on this, ever seen it? thanks again for quality post!


I think I read this posting. I believe, Nuts & Bolts suggest this. I don't really see a problem. The reason it was probably raising up was because the nockset was too low; the nockset was pinching; and the arrow was light with a low FOC. Maybe not all of these conditions were true, but some were. 

Pinching the nock is very bad with light arrows, especially. As we continue to use shorter and shorter A2A bows, we need to add more clearance in between the nocksets and nock. This is because of the more acute string angles.

By removing the top nockset and using the D-loop instead the nock is probably wedging the D-loop up. It may work quite well for you.


----------



## Robert Ogden

*ttt*

this is a great one


----------



## Robert Ogden

*this should be a sticky*

i just started doing the d-loop this way i can see the diff 

more speed ,better grouping ,easy to reach 90m ....by using d-loop this way ..no arrow pinch 

i think ...lol


----------



## Ryan.Johnson

That is a great how to!! Thank you for the time.


----------



## Deezlin

Deezlin said:


> I think I read this posting. I believe, Nuts & Bolts suggest this. I don't really see a problem. The reason it was probably raising up was because the nockset was too low; the nockset was pinching; and the arrow was light with a low FOC. Maybe not all of these conditions were true, but some were.
> 
> Pinching the nock is very bad with light arrows, especially. As we continue to use shorter and shorter A2A bows, we need to add more clearance in between the nocksets and nock. This is because of the more acute string angles.
> 
> By removing the top nockset and using the D-loop instead the nock is probably wedging the D-loop up. It may work quite well for you.


Here is another article on nock set and similar setup which many might want to read.

http://www.archerylive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=429


----------



## tristanc

*Thanks Dezlin!*

Many Thanks for your valuable information about D-loop and nockset!
I love your thread all the time!!:cocktail:


----------



## CWG

Deezlin said:


> Here is another article on nock set and similar setup which many might want to read.
> c=429[/url]


argh, said I have to register to read


----------



## bfisher

Now that's how it's supposed to be done. Very detailed and very good pics. Good post Deezlin. Now can we make it a sticky?


----------



## Coach Jerry

Just a couple of other quick tips to make putting on a D-loop easy 1) After you establish your d-loop length make up a few to have on hand for future use. 2) Remember to put a bulb on the end of end so that the knot does not slip through on it's self, use a lighter to do this . 3) Make sure that the knots are facing oppisite directions, this way they pull against each other. 4) After getting loop where you want it and put tension on it so it stays in place make a measurement off the top cam or from the axle to the inside of the d- loop spot where the noc would go this way you have a record of where things line up. If the bow starts shooting differently check this measurement if it has changed one of two things has happened loophas moved are you have issues with the cables or strings, time to replace them 

seeyou on the shooting line Jerry


----------



## Coach Jerry

*d-loop*

Just a couple of other quick tips to make putting on a D-loop easy 1) After you establish your d-loop length make up a few to have on hand for future use. 2) Remember to put a bulb on the end of end so that the knot does not slip through on it's self, use a lighter to do this . 3) Make sure that the knots are facing oppisite directions, this way they pull against each other. 4) After getting loop where you want it and put tension on it so it stays in place make a measurement off the top cam or from the axle to the inside of the d- loop spot where the noc would go this way you have a record of where things line up. If the bow starts shooting differently check this measurement if it has changed one of two things has happened loophas moved are you have issues with the cables or strings, time to replace them 

see you on the shooting line Jerry


----------



## wkywtkiller

*Deezlin*



BradMc26 said:


> What kind of serving marterial did Deezlin use?


I was wondering this too. I would like to try this, but I haven't seen any serving like that.


----------



## nuts&bolts

wkywtkiller said:


> I was wondering this too. I would like to try this, but I haven't seen any serving like that.


This is what Deezlin says he uses in post no. 1 at the begining of the thread.

"My _center serving is .022 Brownell Diamondback_. I use *.026 Brownell Crown serving for my nocksets*. In addition to position the arrow's nocking point, nocksets can be use for a number of other things, such as tieing in kisser buttons, rest pull ropes on drop-aways and peep sight slip collars."


----------



## Deerman1

grandpawrichard said:


> Here's how I tie on nocksets, peep sights and dropaway cords:
> 
> http://archerynetwork.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2369
> 
> Dick


//////////////pjjjju r

gidqwqt 7f1r1t166shayy 326


----------



## ELKhuntR

ttt.

great post regarding D-Loops


----------



## elpepe25

*Nicely Done*

Very nice thread. Thats how i do it and how i'd show somebody to do it


----------



## Duranthas

Great job on the camera work. I often read what you guys are saying and get a pretty good idea of what you mean, but pictures always ensure that I understand it. Thanks for taking the time to do this!


----------



## IGluIt4U

tdaward said:


> Maybe a picture of how to tie a D-loop would make this thread perfect!!!


I have only one question... what the heck kind of bowstring are you tying that thing on?? :lol:  :wink:

Great thread... :thumb:


----------



## bvz3938

Fantastic.:thumbs_up


----------



## G33k

What are some good starting lengths for D-loops?


----------



## XP35

It depends on how long a length you want when it's finished. :doh: :tongue: But I like mine around 5/8" from the bowstring with the two releases I use. One bow is shorter than the other and I use a tied in nock point below the arrow and don't use any nock point with the longer bow. (A longer bow is less prone to pinch so the nock point isn't really necessary.) For the shorter one with the nock point I start it at 4 1/8" counting the melted balls and with the longer one I start with a 4" section. 

You will have to experiment with your own, though, to truly know what size they need to be for various reasons. Such as width of nocks, length from string, tied nock points or not and even the size of the nock point(s). So experimentation IS necessary to find the perfect size.


----------



## Lbow

*Thanks guys*

Following this thread really helped me set up my wifes d-loop. I don't shoot a loop much less a release, I shoot fingers on my recurve, so I was in the dark setting up her Matthews Ignition. And she was paying attention the whole time so now she can do it herself! 
Thanks again. Now back to my 'curve :wink:


----------



## Takeum

Now we need someone to post on how to burn the ends of the D-Loop without burning string/cables, and having a D-loop that won't give your the dreaded Bloody nose,,, lol


----------



## FallVitals

Takeum said:


> Now we need someone to post on how to burn the ends of the D-Loop without burning string/cables, and having a D-loop that won't give your the dreaded Bloody nose,,, lol



I watched my bow tech, use a lighter set the end on fire let it burn about 5 seconds or so, blow it out, then tap the end with his finger to make it mushroom out. I think he ties a pretty good d-loop.

But he does it a way i have never seen before. for the knock point he ties on the d-loop alone. then serves in the loop? any one heard of this method, ill try to take a picture if i remember when i get off work tonight, which i need to run so im not late now, lol AT addiction.


----------



## goosie119

after you tie a few loops the length you like, you'll be able to guess about how long you need to make the loop before you tie it on. i cut mine my usual length, fray the ends out, and then melt them into a mushroom shape without letting the ends start of fire. if you tie it right they won't pull out on you, even if you don't have much of a mushroom on the end. i try to always have 1 piece of loop material in my box of gear that is ready with the ends burned so all i have to do is tie it around my nockset and i'm good to go. later, goosie.


----------



## Deezlin

goosie119 said:


> after you tie a few loops the length you like,.......


One thing I might mention about D-loops lengths. Many people feel this is a good way of adjusting draw length. It can be, but I would only do this if I was basically shooting on flat land. If you are shooting in hilly terrian, you can get a varying anchor started. 

I personally like to keep my loops short. I generally, shoot the loop for a while and then loosen one end and pull it tighter and redue the knot.

Now one other thought. As you can see, I make the lower nockset longer and the in turn causes more tension in the lower knot. I usually ball then end of that knot first. That way I can make a larger ball on the lower end.


----------



## IGluIt4U

Deezlin said:


> Now one other thought. As you can see, I make the lower nockset longer and the in turn causes more tension in the lower knot. I usually ball then end of that knot first. That way I can make a larger ball on the lower end.


Never considered that minor detail.. good point Deez.. :thumb:


----------



## Grand River Zip

Deezlin said:


> On my hunting bows, I use a serving nockset on top only and a eliminator cushion button under or a small electrical grommet.


Why not use the nockset underneath for hunting bow as well. I have used just a standard d-loop, but plan to tie the nocksets in tonight.....

Great thread that will last and last....9 months use already!


----------



## Crunchy

How much weight do you think that you have added to the string compared to a standard nock point?


----------



## a/c guy

I've got a question, I went from a plain D loop to one with tyed nocks, like the ones shown. Now my point of impact shifted about 2" high and a little right. What would cause that? BTW, I'm shooting an Ally @ 30" DL.


----------



## XP35

Ttt


----------



## Tracker12

Nock point changed causing a change in impact..


----------



## Tracker12

Nock point changed causing a change in impact..


----------



## CJKOLCUN

ttt


----------



## dx2

ttt for a quality thread.

also, see the link grandpawrichard posted on page 1 of this thread. :thumbs_up


----------



## Hoyt Thompson

Just tested this out and immediatly fell in love with this style of nock/loop tieing. Real easy to hook up and the release feels so much better. Top notch information right here.


----------



## lsmountainman

Deez, awesome stuff. Do you have pictures of the eliminator button or grommet? Also, can you please post a picture with the bow string in the vertical position so we can see how your nock sets look from top to bottom? I am really visual so I need to see good pics which you have. Thank you!


----------



## scepterman30x

BradMc26 said:


> What kind of serving marterial did Deezlin use?
> 
> One more quick question. How do you guys get the tied nocks and d-loop to slide up and down the string during paper tuning and nock placement?
> 
> I tried the tied nocks with 0.22 diameterserving string and couldnt get the nock or d-loop to move. I went to crimped nocks and untied the d-loop every time for each adjusment.
> 
> There has got to be an easier way.


Hence the reason it is better to move your rest instead of your nock set.


----------



## wblackfin

I just put on a new rest and wanted the arrow to be centered over the berger hole. I use tied nock sets above and blow along with a D loop. I was going to tie a new nock set and loop but figured I would see if I could move them first. I don't mind tying a new set but find it a pain to get the old ones off. To my surprise I untied the lower knot of the D. Then it was easy to spine the open loop up the string. I then managed to thread the tied nock points individually up the string. It was not easy but once I got a good grip it spun, just a little at first then it became easier after a few turns. Moved them both. Then I was able to retie the lower loop knot.

I did not think I was going to be able to do it, as I tried and failed in the past. but this time it worked.


----------



## randydb

*d loop material*

What type of string/twine/material is d loop material? I have 3 kids and 2 adults who shoot in my crew and I want to replace some frayed d loops. I went to buy some at my local proshop today and they want $10 for two lengths that are 4 1/8" long. Given they have melted the ends for me, but my goodness there can't be 5 cents worth of string there. Can I get this somewhere else?

Randydb


----------



## IGluIt4U

You can order it here waaay cheaper from REDHDCHARM.. she has great product, fast shipping and great prices.. :thumb: :wink:


----------



## dwagoner

IGluIt4U said:


> You can order it here waaay cheaper from REDHDCHARM.. she has great product, fast shipping and great prices.. :thumb: :wink:


YES many a many people use here for loop materail and the stuff is quality, awesome lady to deal with!!!


----------



## randydb

*thanks..*

I already ran a few more searches in general discussion and wound up ordering enough for about 30 dloops from shootnow for the same price I would have paid at the local proshop for enough material to make 2 dloops.

Thanks for the replies.
Randydb


----------



## Flatland Hunter

subscription added


----------



## SAMMYR337

good thread thanks


----------



## Cajun Bowhunter

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. It's great to be able to SEE the installation in pictures. I can't wait to try this on my own bow. Thanks again.:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## ozbillb

Top thread thankyou!


----------



## Pikkuhannu

Wow, amazing thread! Just what i was looking for! :thumbs_up
Must check if there more in other threads...:smile:


----------



## bogenfreak

Hello Guys

Yes very good Threasd ! But can someone show me also how to make the servingstring where the Arrow nocks in ? Also how to make the extra serving around the string, that bends over the CAM´s ?

Would be great !!!:tongue:


----------



## wblackfin

This link may get you going:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=468645


----------



## abps1

ttt


----------



## SkySharkin'

ttt


----------



## 1trackmind

Great thread.


----------



## Spotshooter2

I buy my D loop material in volume (100 ft length). I dont cut my d loops to length and then install. What I do is I have a length that I will be able to make lots of d loops with . I tie the first knot underneath and then having all that extra length I can grab hold of and pull that first knot really tight. then I run the second knot and pull it to the length I want my d loop to be and pull on all the extra length and it pulls the second knot really tight also. Then I cut the extra off leaving enough extra to burn the end on the second knot. I use a soldering gun to melt the second knot on the d loop. When using a soldering gun to make the bulb on the d loop material make sure you are using a clean tip without any solder on it. Found out the hard way that a previously used tip with solder on it will actually melt right into the bulb of d loop material you are trying to form.


----------



## tanto

*This. Thread. ROCKS.*
:rockband::rock:


----------



## ilgenfritz

"On my hunting bows, I use a serving nockset on top only and a eliminator cushion button under or a small electrical grommet"

Can you supply a picture of this setup? Thx!


----------



## Stretch32

so i can find it later


----------



## bennelli

When I joined AT, I was told this would be a very infomative sight. This was no lie. Thanks to every one! You have all been a great help.


----------



## RAO110

very useful, to the top.


----------



## yakstone

Great thread, very useful and well done.
Thank you.


----------



## yakstone

Outstanding work!


----------



## hunter56

*thanks!*

thanks for the tips and pics ..was looking for easy way to do this


----------



## dhom

The most informative thread I have ever read on AT! Thanks to everyone that contributed and posted pics!


----------



## petrey10

BUMP... this thread has helped me so much!


----------



## rodneyroberts32

*bump*

lets put this back up to the top


----------



## T_well

*Nock Pinch?*

I understand nock pinch if you don't use a d-loop and just attach a release straight to the string. You only have one point of contact with the string. However, the D-loop gives you two points of contact. If the D-loop is set up surrounding the nock point, wouldn't that give a straight string between the ends of the D-loop as in Fig. 1? I can't understand what force would be causing the string to look like Fig. 2 and pinching the nock.


----------



## kilerhamilton

*help me*

my arrow is tail spinning. is this because my d loop is to high or two low. my arrow spines and every thing else is correct.


----------



## kimosabi

*Come back*

New to Archery Talk and just coming back to the sport after a 20 year vacation and wow things have changed. This thread is great is there a way to save it to come back to?


----------



## countryboy96

*Good photos*

I will give this a try tomorrow.


----------



## speedgoat

I needed to subscribe. Get thread. Thanks Deezlin


----------



## Clack

T_well said:


> I understand nock pinch if you don't use a d-loop and just attach a release straight to the string. You only have one point of contact with the string. However, the D-loop gives you two points of contact. If the D-loop is set up surrounding the nock point, wouldn't that give a straight string between the ends of the D-loop as in Fig. 1? I can't understand what force would be causing the string to look like Fig. 2 and pinching the nock.


What you're saying makes sense. Unless the d loop slips & makes the nock slip it shouldn't be necessary. The space is probably there for a little fudge factor as the knots tighten into place.


----------



## 1stRockinArcher

XP35 said:


> It depends on how long a length you want when it's finished. :doh: :tongue: But I like mine around 5/8" from the bowstring with the two releases I use. One bow is shorter than the other and I use a tied in nock point below the arrow and don't use any nock point with the longer bow. (A longer bow is less prone to pinch so the nock point isn't really necessary.) For the shorter one with the nock point I start it at 4 1/8" counting the melted balls and with the longer one I start with a 4" section.
> 
> You will have to experiment with your own, though, to truly know what size they need to be for various reasons. Such as width of nocks, length from string, tied nock points or not and even the size of the nock point(s). So experimentation IS necessary to find the perfect size.


This is the 1st time that I have heard to do this on a short ata bow, but that it is not needed on a long ata bow.
Any other input on this?
Or is it best to always use nock sets inside of a dloop?


----------



## ILOVE3D

tag for later


----------



## alleycatdad

Just a note that if you pay attention and tie the dloop knots so that your hand rotation at anchor is pulling them tighter (away from the loops, not into the loops), your d-loop may stay put better.

Steve


----------



## Christopher67

tanto said:


> *This. Thread. ROCKS.*
> :rockband::rock:



I agree, great thread.


----------



## jlnel

:set1_signs009:


----------



## Christopher67

*ttt*


----------



## lenwood17

Great info!


----------



## rwkeith

*Wildgame camera*

has anyone had problems with it not taking pictures?


----------



## Bucks

this is a GREAT thread!!! THANKS!!


----------



## carlosii

gonna have to try this using my outer limits loop tool. time for a new loop on my backup bow anyway...too much nock pinch.


----------



## Christopher67

tanto said:


> *This. Thread. ROCKS.*
> 
> :rockband::rock:






*I agree!* :thumb:


----------



## rt racing

wouldnt the crimp on nocks do the same thing or would the added wieght kill to much speed. i'm picking up a bow tomorrow and want to try this when i set it up. thanks for the help.


----------



## daniel4191

I wouldn't mind being able to tie my own D loops as a starting point for doing my own bow tech work. That said, I know its hard to explain in text but how exactly do you burn the ball on the loop to keep it from pulling through? Kinda scares me to think about pulling it back and it slips through. Whats a good way to get started and practice?


----------



## ThunderEagle

Deezlin said:


> I have completed tying in my D-loop. I melt the first ball on the rope and then wax the rope before beginning.


Ok, this might be a stupid question, but as I'm going to redo my loop this evening using these tied nock sets, why do you wax the loop material before beginning? Won't this make the knots harder to get tight? Is that the point until you get it in the right position?


----------



## papachuby

ThunderEagle said:


> Ok, this might be a stupid question, but as I'm going to redo my loop this evening using these tied nock sets, why do you wax the loop material before beginning? Won't this make the knots harder to get tight? Is that the point until you get it in the right position?


I think it actually makes the knot grip better.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## S.Alder

Great Post. Thank you for the excellent pictures and directions.


----------



## BowButla

Subd


----------



## wojo14

good thread!


----------



## wojo14

dont mean to be insulting to all you loop tiers, but anyone use the tru ball tru nok?
I do not have one, but just wndering if they are any good?


----------



## Skel37

Great Thread! Thanks!
:thumbs_up


----------



## Jette

I use a small nock set on top then a d loop not on top of that and the bottom d loop knot with a slight gap between the bottom of my nock to avoid nock pinch. Can anyone tell me the advantages or disadvantages of doing it this way thanks!


----------



## killerloop

tagged


----------



## SouthShoreRat

Takeum said:


> Now we need someone to post on how to burn the ends of the D-Loop without burning string/cables, and having a D-loop that won't give your the dreaded Bloody nose,,, lol


We use this micro heat gun. It uses a refillable lighter to provide the heat, it can be purchased from West Marine!


----------



## weekender21

Just added a thread asking about this....question answered. Thanks!


----------



## trebor1

Sub'd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## InjunJR

ttt great thread


----------



## Hawkins305

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/technical/196301-how-tie-nocksets-d-loop.html?

This link is one I found that I use a lot on tying my bows with d-loops.


----------



## WMDTalley

Marked for Reference


----------



## Apohlo

One of the most informative threads I have ever read, thanks to many people, especially Deezlin and N&B...
Lets let everybody see this!


----------



## ctownshooter

ttt


----------



## Rollie83

Thanks guys!!


----------



## Santhalas

ttt


----------



## LUCKY AGAIN

Great post, thanks


----------



## bowmanbender

Tagged


----------



## Shadowboxer

approx how many times do you go around the top nockset? if the bottoms 10 then say around 4 or 5?


----------



## Deezlin

I now do four on top and eight on bottom. This makes the release center asymmetrically behind the arrow nock. Therefore, the loop can vary a little in length without causing problems in uphill/downhill shooting.


----------



## martismo

Thanks for a great thread.


----------



## cdsamm

Tagged for reference


----------



## clites

how do u determine where to put the d loop, so ur arrows don't paper tune high or low. thats where im stuck, exact position


----------



## Deezlin

clites said:


> how do u determine where to put the d loop, so ur arrows don't paper tune high or low. thats where im stuck, exact position


Shoot the arrow through paper and determine the position with a bare loop. Then measure from end of serving and remove D-loop and added nocksets.


----------



## straight2it

tagged


----------



## Reindeer

I for one don't agree with with all your theories - having such a wide d loop will cause more string pinch pressure than a conventional loop without the serving due to the angle that's created with the serving being added and when the serving is unequal you're not drawing directly behind the arrow as you stated - the release will find the center of the loop, which in your case will be low. Not saying what you're doing is wrong - I just don't agree with it ... to each their own


----------



## eskimoohunt

Tag for tiring in a nock. Boom!!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

awesome way to do this...i use this method religiously


----------



## Tell73

I use just D loop without nock or serving material, Nylon string/cord. Short as possible and set it with D loop pliers, use first c-clip pliers stretching D-Loop and pre set knots, the you can get your D Loop plier pulling the knots tight.


----------



## jlj2465

Thank you so much for this post! I have been looking for this exact information. This is what makes AT great.


----------



## ctownshooter

tagged for later, very good info.


----------



## NJlungbuster

tagged


----------



## NJlungbuster

Which way would a right handed shooter tire their d loop to avoid added peep twist? Can someone post a pic?


----------



## Deezlin

NJlungbuster said:


> Which way would a right handed shooter tire their d loop to avoid added peep twist? Can someone post a pic?


I really don't think this is an issue. You want the hitch knots tied opposite each other. I really feel most problems with D-loops and slipping or twisting is in the quality of the string and if it wants to twist or turn and the way the center serving is placed on the string. With my system the top knot of the D-loop has the larger load, if the serving is wound the wrong way for the shooter, then as the knot resists twisting in can tighten the underlying serve or loosen it. If it loosens it it will separate and loose it grip on the serving.


----------



## gordini47

tagged


----------



## Z-Rocket

Tag


----------



## g_whitcomb

I have just used my new tied in nock sets to adjust nock height. Paper tuning and a nock high tear. Jiggle the d loop apart a bit and screw the nock sets down a turn, presto, bullet hole! Thanks Deezlin for the info. Now if mine looked as good but hey, they work.


----------



## neck shot

Reindeer said:


> I for one don't agree with with all your theories - having such a wide d loop will cause more string pinch pressure than a conventional loop without the serving due to the angle that's created with the serving being added and when the serving is unequal you're not drawing directly behind the arrow as you stated - the release will find the center of the loop, which in your case will be low. Not saying what you're doing is wrong - I just don't agree with it ... to each their own


Not agreeing with ^^^^ but not disagreeing either I was wondering if we could debate the topic as it relates to the op


----------



## Deezlin

No. I am not interested in a debate. I am note theorizing. If you would do some experimenting instead of debating you would find this nockset system is a lot better than just a loop.


----------



## gunning

Tag good info


----------



## bfisher

nutcase said:


> Can someone explain how this is better than the "pro shops" and people that just tie a d-loop with no nocksets. I think i know but i would like one of the pro's to explain it


It could be one of a couple reasons. Some may not know about tying nocksets inside the loop or don't believe the virtues of it. A pro-shop most likely doesn't have a PRO working there; just a shop owner and a bow technician or two. Some might just be lazy and don't want to take the time. They may have an attitude of "Get you out the door and shooting". Time is money, as they say.

Here is another thing that many do not know. Prior to installing a D-loop you might want to apply some string wax where it will get tied. Also wax the D-loop material. This reduces friction between the loop material and serving and allows the loop to pull tighter when you stretch it out. The tighter it is the less chance of it swinging around the string when the bow is shot.


----------



## zeprice44

Well written tutorial!


----------



## Reindeer

I respectively disagree with your theory and the use of nock sets inside of a D loop - I for one have never had a D loop change it's position once I've tightened it. You'll have a better chance of pinching the nock with your method. By widening the D loop you're creating additional force toward the nock, from the top and the bottom, pushing on the nock sets. With a conventional D loop the force is directed pretty much straight back. To each his own - just my 2 cents.


----------



## tote

I just tried the serving above and below the nock with the D loop on the outside for the first time.
I like it.
My arrow is coming off cleaner than ever before ( and yes, i know the proper way to tie a D Loop).
I also shot perfect bullet holes using my shooter through paper with both a fletched and bare shaft arrow.
It's also a lot easier for me to to connect my release with the larger D loop.
I'm not saying it's better or worse than just a D Loop; to each their own, but I do like it and think I'll stick with it.


----------



## HogFan07

Great post!


----------



## mrduvall

Here is another depiction.


----------



## SDMac

Question.... I understand your theory on the larger serving on the bottom to put more downward pressure on the arrow at the sight, but I use a whisker biscuit. Should I still try this?


----------



## Deerslayer1988

I realize that this thread is ancient, but just wanted to give props to the OP for a well photo documented and easy to follow how-to thread. I was able to look and read just once before replicating this myself.
Thanks!


----------



## patches2565

SDMac said:


> Question.... I understand your theory on the larger serving on the bottom to put more downward pressure on the arrow at the sight, but I use a whisker biscuit. Should I still try this?


I won't hurt. The down pressure won't be enough to cause any problems and it also is cleaner looking IMO

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Edste17

I've been doing my nock sets and D Loops like this on mine and my wife's bow since i saw this video by John Dudley. He's an awesome teacher and is doing amazing things for the sport. Check it out on youtube. Its called "Build A Bow Like A Pro".


----------



## jdmdavey

awesome!


----------



## zotparkerm

Yep, need to keep track of this one too


----------



## Mwit

Great job.


----------



## Tadsit

Nice. Good visual and explanation. I am going to have to revamp my d-loop. Thanks for posting.


----------



## BowhuntNH

Great explanations, love the detail put into all this


----------



## Sporting1

tagging


----------



## IDABOW

Ttt


----------



## jeremyschaefer

Good info!


----------



## jaspervtec

following


----------



## Downeastbob

tagged


----------



## AJWebb

Thank you for this info.


----------



## ShastaRN

Super Cool Information.


----------



## CZMark

Tagged.


----------



## 222 REM

Great post--Thanks


----------



## Boaringbruno

Interesting method.


----------



## Muskoka

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## bayangler

Thank you


----------



## enderdocc

I am going to do this for the nock set I have only in the past just set the D loop...…….. Maybe this will help keep it a little more consistant


----------



## Munga

A great resource.


----------



## JDRealty

What are your thoughts on a torque-less d loop


----------



## JDRealty

Has anyone tried the torque-less d loop?


----------



## [email protected]

Great post thank you


----------



## JPritchard2020

Great Post for rookies like myself. Thanks


----------



## Bwade97

Great post! Thanks a lot!


----------



## Totembear

Great post!


----------



## Crash13davis

pinkfletch said:


> *I will use the hemostat trick*
> 
> You might like to try this. File a groove near the end of the pliers to help get a good lock on the loop.


Great idea! Just saved me 15-20$ on a pair of “d-loop pliers”


----------



## boatmanusa

I like to pre-cut some d loop material and burn the ends..
If you cut you d loop material 4 and 1/4 in that will give you a 5/8 in d loop and that's taking into account you can fray the ends to burn them... you can adjust accordingly so for in material would give you 1/2 inch d loop Etc...
Throwing a couple of these in your pack will save trying to figure out where to cut it to get the same length that you spent so much time getting


----------



## Jjank589

Nock on archery YouTube channel has some really helpful videos to learn serving basics


----------



## hoytsucks

Deezlin said:


> I was contacted by kenn1320 with a question on serving nocksets and D-loops. This topic has been discussed here before, but I thought I would start a new thread on the subject.
> 
> I always use serving nocksets in conjunction with D-loops. I feel this is the best of both worlds. On my hunting bows, I use a serving nockset on top only and a eliminator cushion button under or a small electrical grommet.
> 
> My center serving is .022 Brownell Diamondback. I use .026 Brownell Crown serving for my nocksets. In addition to position the arrow's nocking point, nocksets can be use for a number of other things, such as tieing in kisser buttons, rest pull ropes on drop-aways and peep sight slip collars.


Yep same here


----------



## JLH94

Great post! Looking to tie a nockset inside my d-loop since it didn’t come with one. I think it’ll make me more consistent in the long run.


----------



## Isaac EL B

tdaward said:


> Maybe a picture of how to tie a D-loop would make this thread perfect!!!


Wonderful pics we always try to look for pics on the web or a video but they all using the stock strings on a bow with similar colors, the contrast of color and string size used was perfect!


----------



## wbates

Tag


----------



## windknotnc

Great post even today


----------



## Ksmorris21

buckfeverben said:


> What's the reasoning behind doing more knots at the bottom vs. the top? This is very similar to how I've been doing mine for a while now...great info...and great post Deezlin.
> 
> Ben


Also curious why you didn’t do them equal?


----------



## Sauce Piquante

pinkfletch said:


> *I will use the hemostat trick*
> 
> You might like to try this. File a groove near the end of the pliers to help get a good lock on the loop.


That’s a really good idea. Do you have a groove on both side?


----------



## VizslaCopper701

Ksmorris21 said:


> Also curious why you didn’t do them equal?


In order to keep center of D loop and release head directly behind arrow I believe.


----------



## VizslaCopper701

VizslaCopper701 said:


> In order to keep center of D loop and release head directly behind arrow I believe.


Weight/gravity at full draw causes D loop to be deformed from a perfect triangle behind nock. Tying nock sets this way manipulates d loop...


----------

