# what is the longest confirmed kill shot



## old Graybeard (Nov 3, 2005)

Wow! You are the man.


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## tclow (Feb 22, 2006)

ok let me get this right you shot 96 yds and had a pass through?How many pounds do you pull back?I say nice shot and you the man but hard to believe the pass through part.Any pictures?


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## cantwaittilOct1 (Aug 26, 2003)

strange said:


> i made a long shot this week on an antelope the shoot was 96 yard and it was not a fluke i made the shoot again the same day on a target 3" right of center i shoot gold tip and 75 muzzy and had a pass trought heart shoot never shot that for before but we do shot 80s consetant and i have two witneses to the shoot joe


If you truly made a 96 yard kill shot well done. 

I was wondering if you have ever injured any animals in the past taking such reckless shots?

Irresponsible!


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## Bionicrooster (Dec 14, 2005)

My longest confirmed was about 28 yards. Since then i have learned to let the get closer:wink:


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## javabird17 (Sep 13, 2006)

73 yards with my High Country Silent Hunter


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## Ryan (Oct 19, 2002)

strange said:


> i made a long shot this week on an antelope the shoot was 96 yard and it was not a fluke i made the shoot again the same day on a target 3" right of center i shoot gold tip and 75 muzzy and had a pass trought heart shoot never shot that for before but we do shot 80s consetant and i have two witneses to the shoot joe


Shot.
Through.
Far.
Consistant.
Witnesses.

Punctuation.

If you're shooting 96 yards at an animal, you shouldn't be bowhunting.


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## MuzzyAddict (Jun 30, 2006)

If you can't get any closer than 96 yds, you should switch to a muzzleloader, or improve your stalking technique.


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## cantwaittilOct1 (Aug 26, 2003)

strange said:


> i made a long shot this week on an antelope the shoot was 96 yard and it was not a fluke i made the shoot again the same day on a target 3" right of center i shoot gold tip and 75 muzzy and had a pass trought heart shoot never shot that for before but we do shot 80s consetant and i have two witneses to the shoot joe


You deserve all of the bashing that you are about to receive.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

*Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm*

could you hear him drinking water?????????

96 yd shot with a bow at live game shows how little respect you have for the animals you chase.


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## bowhunterdave (Dec 1, 2005)

Why would you brag about that? was it a second finish off shot? If not you are totally wrong and give us responsible hunters a bad rap! If you have to take a 90 yard shot to kill somthing, why risk injury to a big game animal? I hope you dont continue to brag too much on this one...ukey:


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## mev1977 (Aug 26, 2004)

*In Foxwortthys Words!*

Lord! Please prepare him for the butt-whopping he is about to receive.amen.ukey:


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## LostHawg (Feb 17, 2005)

*worms*

this will surely open up a can of worms.


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## Abraham52 (Jan 7, 2006)

*Huh?*

I won't judge you re: your shot, but if you've been a member since March, you should have known better than to post this here. I hope you have thick skin.


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## WATERFOWLER (Sep 15, 2004)

Bionicrooster said:


> My longest confirmed was about 28 yards. Since then i have learned to let the get closer:wink:


Well said!!!!


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## nyturkeyduster (Aug 5, 2006)

96 yards is just plain stupid


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## WATERFOWLER (Sep 15, 2004)

I think he forgot the decimal point 9.6 yards


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## Mag_Tek (Jul 25, 2006)

I watched my dad shoot threw a mule deer at 80 yards with a 40# recurve. He also got 5 mule deer between 100 to 125 yards and several elk out to 100 yards with a compound bow.

Many top (and I mean top) NFAA shooters can group well at long range with their hunting bows. Some of them shoot 6" groups out to 100 yards or more. They know how to fine tune their bows, arrows and broadheads. The new rangefinders are also a main key to long range shooting. At 100 yards you can't be off more than one yard with a fast arrow and still make a good shot. I like to hunt with a scope for better aiming at long range.

You match your broadheads for the penetration needed. A average 60# compound bow will shoot large 4 blade broadheads threw deer easy up to 40 yards or more on a good hit. At 100 yards you need a smaller broadhead and less blades. Shot placement is needed all the time.

What ever distance you can group well should be your hunting range. Many archers baulk at long range shots. What they don't know is deer jump less at longer range shots.

Just my thoughts


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## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

My longest was 58 yards, on a mule deer in open country. Would not shoot more than that, and everything has to be perfect for me to take a shot like that. This is the first time I have ever heard of anybody taking a shot this far. If you trully did, well done. But, PLEASE for the love of the game you are pursuing don't ever do it again. To much can go wrong with that much distance between you and the animal. Not worth the risk of seriously wounding something.


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## hoyt3 (Apr 22, 2005)

a picture is worth a 1000 words...and a video is worth 10x that much. if you cannot get closer than that with a bow...wow, that's bad.


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## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

Mag_Tek said:


> I watched my dad shoot threw a mule deer at 80 yards with a 40# recurve. He also got 5 mule deer between 100 to 125 yards and several elk out to 100 yards with a compound bow.
> Many top (and I mean top) NFAA shooters can group well at long range with their hunting bows. Some of them shoot 6" groups out to 100 yards or more. They know how to fine tune their bows, arrows and broadheads. The new rangefinders are also a main key to long range shooting. At 100 yards you can't be off more than one yard with a fast arrow and still make a good shot. I like to hunt with a scope for better aiming at long range.
> 
> You match your broadheads for the penetration needed. A average 60# compound bow will shoot large 4 blade broadheads threw deer easy up to 40 yards or more on a good hit. At 100 yards you need a smaller broadhead and less blades. Shot placement is needed all the time.
> ...


Congrats to your dad for being completely irresponsible. Hope that nonsence didn't rub off on you.


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## RAZORBACK_GIRL (Jul 6, 2005)

Mag_Tek said:


> Many top (and I mean top) NFAA shooters can group well at long range with their hunting bows. Some of them shoot 6" groups out to 100 yards or more. They know how to fine tune their bows, arrows and broadheads. The new rangefinders are also a main key to long range shooting. At 100 yards you can't be off more than one yard with a fast arrow and still make a good shot. I like to hunt with a scope for better aiming at long range.
> 
> Just my thoughts


First, I really don't care what if the top NFAA shooters are doing it, it doesn't make it right. Second, the TOP NFAA shooters I know wouldn't ever make a shot like that. They don't care how fine tuned their bows, arrows or broadheads are. They know what an animal can do in the time it takes their finely tuned arrow to get there, they know what their KE does after that far and the ones I know would scouff at a shout that far.

I think you might as well take your 300 mag out there b/c its a lot more respectful to the animal!!


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## slinger09 (Oct 11, 2004)

MuzzyAddict said:


> If you can't get any closer than 96 yds, you should switch to a muzzleloader, or improve your stalking technique.


I don't know that I have ever shot one that far with my muzzleloader.


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## bowmedic (Jun 2, 2004)

96 yards?? That makes my absolute limit of 30 yds look pretty bad. I practice to 50 and group well at 50 but there are too many variables to shoot at live game at 50. I hunt in pretty thick stuff so there is no need to stretch a shot to many times. I know out west in the open country it might be necessary to shoot out and past 50 but 96???? Come on now, are you sure your range finder wasn't miscalibrated??? Good luck with this post by the way.. The judgement should be quick and painfull....


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## Sandilands (Aug 31, 2006)

My longest shot has been 23yds w/bow.
I used to be a shooter, now I am a hunter. My longest shot in the past few yrs w/rifle was no more than 60yds.
Congrats to anyone who can shoot that far w/bow......... BUT you are not a hunter and you should stick to hay bales and foam targets


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## MichaelW (Feb 5, 2004)

Oh boy, here comes the naysayers that have never hunted out west. You my friend are a pilgrim in an unholy land!

Good shot.


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## BowChilling (Apr 30, 2003)

I think a lot of us here would be more than capable of 100 yard shots on a consistant basis. Being able to hit an animal at 100 yards isn't worth bragging about. Having enough hunting experince to know better than attempting such asinine shots is what seperates the hunter from the wannabe!

And I have hunted out west before! But in the time it takes an arrow to go 100 yards an animal can walk a perfect shot into a horrible shot!


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## RAZORBACK_GIRL (Jul 6, 2005)

West, South, East...I don't care...I understand that out West you may have to shoot farther than what is the norm in the South, but there is not justifying or defending a 100 yard shot!! IMO


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## Kipsbay (Sep 8, 2006)

The best comment is ...no comment, that should say it all.....my limit is 35 yds....there is no perfect scenario to shoot that far.


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## maxx (Aug 23, 2006)

728 yards is my longest kill,but it wasnt a with a bow (of course) and is wasnt even a deer.....but he didnt ask with a bow:tongue:.on the other hand 96 yards with a bow is ******ed,why would you risk such a shot?it really is very hard to believe anyway.96 steps sounds more like it.

maxx


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

MichaelW said:


> Oh boy, here comes the naysayers that have never hunted out west. You my friend are a pilgrim in an unholy land!
> 
> Good shot.


I have hunted out West and yes you better be able to shoot 50 yds, but come on defending a 96 yd shot. pass whatever that is your smokin.


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## SEOBowhntr (May 13, 2005)

I've heard such claims, but really don't believe too much of those I've heard. That being said, I agree with the masses here, that is an irresponsible shot that had way too many variables to be taking, and if you had to take that long of a shot, you need to learn how to hunt better. 



> Originally Posted by *Mag_Tek*
> I watched my dad shoot threw a mule deer at 80 yards with a 40# recurve. He also got 5 mule deer between 100 to 125 yards and several elk out to 100 yards with a compound bow.


With a 40# RECURVE huh?? I certainly hope you are joking......because if you expect us to believe this, I am pretty amazed or insulted. Shot through a Mule deer at 80 yds with a 40# Recurve???? That's more outlandish than the original post. That arrow flying about 180fps tops out of a 40# recurve has about 33ft of drop to account for en route at that distance, and 180fps is giving that 40# bow a lot of credit.


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## glockman55 (Jul 13, 2006)

My longest clean shot was 25 yds. I would hesitate on a 30 yd. shot but that's just me. I know Elk hunters are required by most outfitters to shoot tight groups at 50 yds. before they will take you hunting,


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## sean (May 31, 2003)

SEOBowhntr said:


> I've heard such claims, but really don't believe too much of those I've heard. That being said, I agree with the masses here, that is an irresponsible shot that had way too many variables to be taking, and if you had to take that long of a shot, you need to learn how to hunt better.
> 
> 
> 
> With a 40# RECURVE huh?? I certainly hope you are joking......because if you expect us to believe this, I am pretty amazed or insulted. Shot through a Mule deer at 80 yds with a 40# Recurve???? That's more outlandish than the original post. That arrow flying about 180fps tops out of a 40# recurve has about 33ft of drop to account for en route at that distance, and 180fps is giving that 40# bow a lot of credit.






Howard hill shot at running animals at those distances and more and I have the tembo video to prove it ..


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## leblanc822 (Feb 18, 2004)

*...long shots...*



WATERFOWLER said:


> I think he forgot the decimal point 9.6 yards


 If you meant to say 96 feet I'll say good shot, if you're ignorant enough to say 96 yards you deserve all the trashing you get!


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## TexasAggie (Aug 5, 2006)

See signature. :darkbeer:


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

I let a doe pass on a 30 yd shot Sat. because it wasn't right. Guess I'll never "Be The Man" like that.


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## phensway (Feb 3, 2006)

At 100 yards on an antelope your pin would be 3 times its size!!!!!!!! you wouldnt know where to aim, the wind would take an arrow 50 yards off its mark especially in open country..... My longest shot was 24 yards..........


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## imurhucklebry (Sep 13, 2006)

Wow man, that sounds like one awesome shot! Ninety six yards with bow.....you gotta be crazy. A target is one thing; if you miss or hit him somewhere less than ideal, you just go get your arrow and no harm done. A live animal is something different. I don't care how good you are, a ninety six yard shot is ridiculous! Since you are so good with your bow, how about working a little more on your spelling.


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## RangerAngler (Jul 15, 2006)

Bill Baraskie once killed a deer at 450 yards with a bow made of telephone pole and high lines. After he killed the deer he held the deer in such a way to say "Nice shot Bill Baraskie, Your still a song of a *****" 

Come on what whould possess you to even take a shot like that. I think someone is doing a little to much of this before they went hunting. :darkbeer:


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## DuckTech14 (Jul 14, 2005)

It seems funny how this is only this guy's 27th post, and wont come back to defend himself. Troll anyone?

On the other hand, that is absolutely rediculous to think that you would take a shot that far. There is absolutely no way that you got a pass through at that distance, unless you were pulling 120 pounds!


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## b0w_sniper (Oct 11, 2004)

*This is going to be good.*

:tape2:


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## mjacobs576jq (Oct 25, 2005)

Shooting at this range, in my opinion is completly ridiculous. I practice out to 70 yards quite often and am fairly proficient (by no means can I nail a 3" group - cudos to anyone that can), but it sure boosts my confidence on a 30 - 40 yard shot. I see NO reason at all to take a pot shot with archery tackle on live game. If you want to take that kind of shot trade the bow in for a gun. There is too much of a chance of many factors affecting where you are aiming that can change and drastically affect where that arrow actaully hits. I for one would not be proud of that harvest at all.:thumbs_do


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## SEOBowhntr (May 13, 2005)

DuckTech14 said:


> It seems funny how this is only this guy's 27th post, and wont come back to defend himself. Troll anyone?
> 
> On the other hand, that is absolutely rediculous to think that you would take a shot that far. There is absolutely *no way that you got a pass through at that distance, unless you were pulling 120 pounds! *


I will have to say......That if you are shooting a 400gr arrow 280fps, you still have 50+ ft/#'s of KE at 100yds, but this is also if you are shooting in without any wind to contest with. But I'm just thinking that if I have to shoot that far, I need to learn how to hunt.


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## Stanley (Jan 18, 2005)

*You just made the worst rookie mistake.*

It’s now time to bend over grab your ankles and belly up to the kicking post.


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## Hoyt Havoc (Jul 27, 2006)

My first deer ever was a 40 yard shot with an old Bear Whitetail Hunter @50 pound, instictive. I hit the liver. Now with sights and speed I'd still think about a 40 but would rather keep it within 30.


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## Mr.Coon (Oct 18, 2005)

strange, i can't believe all of these people bashing you because you are a better shot than them. i guess they think they are your daddy:laser: :angry: 

2 years ago i had a passthrough on my longest shot ever. it was on a 175# hog at 49yds with a 27.75''glodtip xt tipped with a 90gr muzzy. i was stalking them too. i guess i need to work on my skills because that was as close as i could get. 

i saw ted nugent make a 100+ yard shot on a goat in an old video. i think he was in hawaii or california

don't let the haters on here get you down.:hippie: 

great shot:first:


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## Josh Michaelis (Sep 16, 2004)

First of all he is lying.

Second of all, who cares how far he shoots.


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## HuntSleepFish (May 8, 2005)

Don't Feed The Troll!


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## Mr.Coon (Oct 18, 2005)

what the hell is a troll?


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## maxx (Aug 23, 2006)

like a mini sasquatch that lives under bridges.:wink: 

maxx


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## cantwaittilOct1 (Aug 26, 2003)

Mr.**** said:


> strange, i can't believe all of these people bashing you because you are a better shot than them. i guess they think they are your daddy:laser: :angry:
> 
> 2 years ago i had a passthrough on my longest shot ever. it was on a 175# hog at 49yds with a 27.75''glodtip xt tipped with a 90gr muzzy. i was stalking them too. i guess i need to work on my skills because that was as close as i could get.
> 
> ...


Great shot? You deserve the idiot award also.


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## rich1578 (Jul 1, 2003)

SEOBowhntr said:


> That arrow flying about 180fps tops out of a 40# recurve has about 33ft of drop to account for en route at that distance, and 180fps is giving that 40# bow a lot of credit.


He just pictured his school bus standing on end and aimed at the top...oh, wait, SHORT BUSES aren't 33' long...LOL 

But I Believe him :wink:


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## rich1578 (Jul 1, 2003)

*What.....*



Mr.**** said:


> strange, i can't believe all of these people bashing you because you are a better shot than themQUOTE]
> 
> 
> You 'bout as ignorant as he is....


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## Mr.Coon (Oct 18, 2005)

cantwaittilOct1 said:


> Great shot? You deserve the idiot award also.


ooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
isn't that a personal attack? i think that is against the rules buddy. you could hurt my feeling or something, buth that is ok. i still love you. i don't care what they say:wink:


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## Mr.Coon (Oct 18, 2005)

rich1578 said:


> Mr.**** said:
> 
> 
> > strange, i can't believe all of these people bashing you because you are a better shot than themQUOTE]
> ...


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## StevenJ (Aug 8, 2006)

Up here in Alaska it is not uncommon for hunters to shoot out to 70yds. In fact bot caribou i have take have been over 60. one was 62 and one was 66. one was a pass through and one was not. I have seen caribou shot out to 80 yds and successfully killed. anyone from alaska or as been up on haul rd should be able to back me up on this one. 
Steve


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

SEOBowhntr said:


> I've heard such claims, but really don't believe too much of those I've heard. That being said, I agree with the masses here, that is an irresponsible shot that had way too many variables to be taking, and if you had to take that long of a shot, you need to learn how to hunt better.
> 
> 
> 
> With a 40# RECURVE huh?? I certainly hope you are joking......because if you expect us to believe this, I am pretty amazed or insulted. Shot through a Mule deer at 80 yds with a 40# Recurve???? That's more outlandish than the original post. That arrow flying about 180fps tops out of a 40# recurve has about 33ft of drop to account for en route at that distance, and 180fps is giving that 40# bow a lot of credit.



Oh for crying out loud.... how DARE you use MATH when talking about a hunting situation.... dont you know that ONLY requirement is "The shot felt good, so I took it! " ?????

Oh... and how about this.... after the arrow from the 40 # bow reached its zenith and started back to earth at a 70 degree angle, what is the kenetic force when aided by the force of gravity? That arrow might be travelling 500 ft per second when it finally returned from orbit, and its energy potential actually higher than when it was launched from the riser... (opps... my bad.. math must be considered in this post... drat.... hmmm... what is terminal velocity going for these days?)


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

And what if a man is hungry and needs the meat? Should he let the animal walk if he knows he can make the shot? I wouldn't. If my family depended on that meat, and I was running out of time, you can bet I'd be taking my chances. You other people can starve.

I know elk have been shot at 100+ yards with pass throughs. Yes, the equipment was heavier than usual, and the shooter had practiced at that range often, and him and his equipment were up to the task. The animal could have moved, but I've had deer jump the string at less than 30 yards, so what's the difference?

It's amazing how quick people jump on someone for something when they don't know the whole story. Could be this guy is very irresponsible. Could be that he's not. I don't know, so I won't say. I'll leave that up to everyone else that seems to know so much about him.


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

Well said! I like practicing out at the longer ranges, or shooting these shots on a foam animal that is not going to move. Makes the closer shots seem like the animal is right on your lap. I would never attempt a shot on a wild animal at that range thou. Maybe see some justification in a second shot at that range on a animal that has already been hit and could possibly never be recovered, but no other reason. Don't care who you are that is a long shot. That's a poke with a muzzleloader. What % of the time do you think anyone can make a 90 yard kill shot on a animal? Don't care who the shooter is the % of making that shot would be scary low. At out local club shoot we have a 100 yard long shot competition for a 3D target for fun. Even the real good shooters have problems putting all the arrows on the animal let alone the vitals. Factor in a little crosswind and you would not believe where you have to hold to be in the boiler room.




mjacobs576jq said:


> Shooting at this range, in my opinion is completly ridiculous. I practice out to 70 yards quite often and am fairly proficient (by no means can I nail a 3" group - cudos to anyone that can), but it sure boosts my confidence on a 30 - 40 yard shot. I see NO reason at all to take a pot shot with archery tackle on live game. If you want to take that kind of shot trade the bow in for a gun. There is too much of a chance of many factors affecting where you are aiming that can change and drastically affect where that arrow actaully hits. I for one would not be proud of that harvest at all.:thumbs_do


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## huntnmuleys (Jan 7, 2004)

70 yard shots happen out here all the time. deal with it.
not saying im the one taking em, but a lot of good shooters do, and the results speak for themselves.

oh ya, some guy named Fred Bear shot animals that far often with a recurve. his bengal tiger was right at 100 yards i believe.

not many of these ethic police members ever attack old fred, ya ever notice that???


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## cujrh10 (Feb 26, 2006)

:darkbeer: TA BILL BRASKI!!!!:darkbeer:


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## Josh Michaelis (Sep 16, 2004)

huntnmuleys said:


> oh ya, some guy named Fred Bear shot animals that far often with a recurve. his bengal tiger was right at 100 yards i believe.
> 
> not many of these ethic police members ever attack old fred, ya ever notice that???


Yeah what about the seventy yard sheep that was behind a Rock that he lofted the arrow over and killed. That fred bear sure made hunters look bad 

Great Point HuntnMuleys


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## [email protected] (Sep 6, 2006)

cantwaittilOct1 said:


> If you truly made a 96 yard kill shot well done.
> 
> I was wondering if you have ever injured any animals in the past taking such reckless shots?
> 
> Irresponsible!


see this is why some of us have a hard time obtaining permission to hunt private land. 96yd. this is'nt bowhunting it's guessing


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## bowhunterdave (Dec 1, 2005)

Incorporate Fred Bear as a young rookie and the internet during modern times and he would not stand a chance against this group! I for one think Fred was a pioneer for the times but somone of his exact caliber isnt rare today..times have changed and so should we..as our equipment improves so should our expectations of realistic shot distances.


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## Seth the XSlayr (Feb 20, 2005)

*THIS IS AN ARCHERY TALK IQ TEST.*





Please do yourselves a favor and cease responding to threads such as this...those IQ points are droppin' with every reply.....




:-/


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> see this is why some of us have a hard time obtaining permission to hunt private land. 96yd. this is'nt bowhunting it's guessing


Ah, so you were there? You know this fella's skills? Maybe you shouldn't be comparing him to yourself.:wink:


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## BigBucks125 (Jun 22, 2006)

this thread is funny, I know people from New York who have hunted out west before for elk. and none of them....have shot an elk past 30 yards. My dad shot an elk at 12 steps. So I dont buy into all that "shooting 70 yards is the standard" 

if he made a 96 yard shot..good for him..I wouldn't do it. I've never shot that far with my shotgun lol


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## Josh Michaelis (Sep 16, 2004)

BigBucks125 said:


> have shot an elk past 30 yards. My dad shot an elk at 12 steps. So I dont buy into all that "shooting 70 yards is the standard"


Elk in thick timber are a little different than Muleys and Pronghorn on the plains


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## mbklmann (Jun 12, 2005)

I dont see how everyone looks at professional bowhunters with 110 yard pins and then questions this guys shooting techniques. Youve never seen the guy shoot a bow before. Maybe he can shoot robin hoods consistantly at 50 yards. I dont believe in questioning peoples ethics if i have never seen them shoot a bow before.


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## Volfan (Jul 8, 2005)

*Reckless*

Why would you post such a topic of discuss? You know this will create a stir. If you are an anti, I'm sure you didn't get the response you anticipated.


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## ChrisM (Jul 14, 2006)

Mr.**** said:


> i saw ted nugent make a 100+ yard shot on a goat in an old video. i think he was in hawaii or california


Ive seen that video as well. He shot it at 100yards RUNNING!! and got a complete pass through. You dont hear anyone bashing Ted though, and Yes Fred Bear has taken critters at these ranges. Would I take that shot...probably not. But I will not pass judgment on others for doing so.


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## brettbran (Jul 25, 2006)

Who cares about Ted Nugent. Yes he does alot for our sport, thanks ted. But what you dont see on TV is the misses or bad shots and the unrecovered game. It is obvious the longer the shot with a bow, the lower the percentage of a kill shot.


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

ChrisM said:


> Ive seen that video as well. He shot it at 100yards RUNNING!! and got a complete pass through. You dont hear anyone bashing Ted though, and Yes Fred Bear has taken critters at these ranges. Would I take that shot...probably not. But I will not pass judgment on others for doing so.


If you are going to further the legend of Nugent, please be accurate... Nugent shot a standing goat from a hill above the animal at a much shorter distance... it ran off... Nugent flung arrows at it as it ran... one of the arrows hit the animal on the run... It was a second shot at a wounded animal... there was nothing to lose by taking a second hail mary shot at it. If Nugent's shot on that goat was his FIRST shot, I suspect you would hear some noise about it.

Fred Bear lived in a different era.... bowhunting was a curiousity at that time... bowhunters experimented with many methods, including PODS.... how many bowhunters of this day and age find PODS to be an ethical approach to harvesting an animal?


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## WATERFOWLER (Sep 15, 2004)

Who cares? Good shot now practice stalking to theN you will be perfect.


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## MichaelW (Feb 5, 2004)

First off, he may or may not be telling the truth.

Second, as for the ethics police, how many of you violate traffic laws everyday; cheat on taxes; or tell "white lies" to kids, coworkers, bosses? How many of you meet fellow hunters at camp, some preseason BBQ, tailgating at a game, or some after 3d event and toss back a few beers and drive in to town for supplies or home?

To paraphrase a line from the good book, "Let he/she without an ethics violation cast the first arrow".

What qualifies anyone on here to criticize another for an action that is not forbidden by law? If you do not like what someone says they do, ignore them, responding only draws attention to the thread you are afraid of other seeing ( like anti's ). Until they outlaw shots over 50 yards ( I practice to 70 and have harvested at 47 and I am a better than average stalker as taught by the USMC sniper school ) I might or might not take one depending on my skill set, circumstances, and environment.

Geez lighten up. These threads are so predictable.


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## systembowtech (Sep 27, 2005)

96y must be a joke!


Dont feed trolls!


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## 2005INNOVATOR (Aug 29, 2006)

*Long Shot*

I Dont Have Aproblem With Taking Long Shots If You Are Comfortable Making Them Count And As For Everyone Saying What If He Would Have Moved Or What If He Did This Or Did That Just Remember What If Is A Big Statement Remember What If You Aunt Had Balls She Would Have Been Your Uncle Good Shot


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## brickhard (Sep 16, 2006)

*Being responsible*

If you can hit a 4 inch circle 100% of the time at a measured distance whatever it is, I think you have the right to take shots at that range as long as you have the kinetic energy to do the job. I know archers that can shoot these long ranges effectively but few ever do because they are hunters first and shooters second. Each season I set my max range depending on how often and how well I am shooting. I was sad to read that STRANGE took a shot that he had never practiced or tried. This is absolutely irresponsible. The question I try to ask every day is how will I feel if I wound an animal that will spend hours or days suffering just because I wanted to shoot something. Think about your dog being put through that kind of misery. If you must take target practice do it at the range. Practice the long ranges it's fun, then try to get closer and make a clean humane kill.


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## crazy wolf (Sep 11, 2006)

Well that beats my long shot, For me 37yds, and a beautiful nine pt. broadside shot and a pass thru w/ a Rocky mt. Ti 1oo gr. P.S. their were no obstacles in the way. It was crossing a power line opening. That for me was still in my confidence zone. This one ya can believe. Crazy Wolf! sorry no pics.


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## Ryan (Oct 19, 2002)

2005INNOVATOR said:


> I Dont Have Aproblem With Taking Long Shots If You Are Comfortable Making Them Count And As For Everyone Saying What If He Would Have Moved Or What If He Did This Or Did That Just Remember What If Is A Big Statement Remember What If You Aunt Had Balls She Would Have Been Your Uncle Good Shot



Is capitalizing every word really necessary? :angel: :devil:


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

rodney482 said:


> could you hear him drinking water?????????


Man that makes me laugh every time:darkbeer: :tongue:


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Well my suggestion to any of you boys out west that take 96 yrd shots at game and consistantly kill animals like that is go to every archery touranment you can possibly find because you boys should be a shoe in to win EVERYTHING you enter. A IBO or ASA 3D shoot should be easy for you. With only 50 yrd max you should never be out of the eleven ring all day. Even Jeff Hopkins wouldn't stand a chance against you guys.

You know what I really think? :flypig:


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## Ryan (Oct 19, 2002)

Techy said:


> Man that makes me laugh every time:darkbeer: :tongue:


That came from a post last year, didn't it? I remember it vaguely.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Ryan said:


> That came from a post last year, didn't it? I remember it vaguely.


That was from good ol' fastcamo, and his long range mumbo jumbo.


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

MichaelW said:


> First off, he may or may not be telling the truth.
> 
> Second, as for the ethics police, how many of you violate traffic laws everyday; cheat on taxes; or tell "white lies" to kids, coworkers, bosses? How many of you meet fellow hunters at camp, some preseason BBQ, tailgating at a game, or some after 3d event and toss back a few beers and drive in to town for supplies or home?
> 
> ...



Ethics without ethics police is simply anarchy... "Everybody do whatever you wanna do.. Everybody else just shut up about it."

Without peer pressure, you cannot have ETHICS.. Without discussion and ultimately criticism you have no peer pressure. if you want to eliminate the notion of ethics, thats fine, but dont go around talking about SPORTSMENSHIP or RESPECTING the game we hunt.. because without ethics, you have NO reference point to start from.

According to your second point.. if ANYBODY committs any discretion, NOBODY should ever complain or point out glaring examples of misbehavior... tell me how that works out for your kids...

What qualifies ALL of us here to comment and/or criticize bad behavior is our responsibility to police our own ranks as a MEMBER of the society of bowhunters. EAch and every one of us has a DUTY to speak up against behaviors that serve to damage our image as sportsmen or our compassion to provide for a clean, quick kill. If you believe that flinging arrows at animals just to see if you can hit them is humane, or ethical... lets talk about what constitutes an ethical premise in the first place. Where do ethics come from and why should we attempt to follow them?

If I dont like someone robbing my neighbors house, I think that ignoring them is probably not going to be something my neighbor values in a friendship.


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## Ryan (Oct 19, 2002)

rodney482 said:


> That was from good ol' fastcamo, and his long range mumbo jumbo.


Found it. LOL I remember now. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=223707

:lol:

There was also the dude that was betting like $50,000 he could shoot poker chips at 130 yards......


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## oldreloader (May 27, 2003)

My personal opinion is 90 yards is too far under hunting conditions to consistantly be accurate enough to shoot at game.There are too many varibles that come into play.Paper is one thing But I owe my best to the game I hunt.For me to shoot at 90 yards isn't my best.


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## mr.production (Sep 19, 2006)

*shot 96*

I once killed a deer at 112,thats right 112,but thats in inches thats about my limit.


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## Ryan (Oct 19, 2002)

mr.production said:


> I once killed a deer at 112,thats right 112,but thats in inches thats about my limit.


3 yards is definitely getting them in close.


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## oldreloader (May 27, 2003)

Ryan said:


> Found it. LOL I remember now.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=223707
> 
> ...


Read the thread...lol.what a hoot.Heard him drinking at 86 yards!!Man that cat had been to writing school!I was taught not to call someone a liar so :zip: I won't.Down South we have a saying.."even a blind hog will find an acorn ever once in a while".:jaw:


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## SEOBowhntr (May 13, 2005)

BigBucks125 said:


> this thread is funny, I know people from New York who have hunted out west before for elk. and none of them....have shot an elk past 30 yards. My dad shot an elk at 12 steps. So I dont buy into all that "shooting 70 yards is the standard"
> 
> if he made a 96 yard shot..good for him..I wouldn't do it. I've never shot that far with my shotgun lol


Avg shot distance for elk kills over on Bowsite is 26yds, for Pronghorns 29yds, for Mule Deer 30yds. Now these are averages, but there most certainly ain't to many past 60yds, which to me is too far. 

Fred Bear shot an animal at 100yds with an old recurve, but how many did he miss??? Ted Nugent shot what at 100yds running??  Then again this is a guy who shoots a 120# forky in Michigan and proclaims---> *"THE BEAST IS DEAD!!!" * :sad:  
Not sure of any bad info on Fred Bear, but Jefferson, one of our forefathers was known to use his slavegirls for sex, and you don't here too much bad about him either.


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

Maybe he was wearing his Walker's game ear 



oldreloader said:


> Read the thread...lol.what a hoot.Heard him drinking at 86 yards!!Man that cat had been to writing school!I was taught not to call someone a liar so :zip: I won't.Down South we have a saying.."even a blind hog will find an acorn ever once in a while".:jaw:


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Ryan said:


> There was also the dude that was betting like $50,000 he could shoot poker chips at 130 yards......


I thought it was 140 yards 

:wink: :tongue:


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## teambringit1 (Oct 28, 2005)

who would win a shooting contest, this guy, or Ditka?


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## Cman (Jun 23, 2003)

*Hunting sights*

Wondering one thing - do the hunting sights available today enable you to range to 100 yrds.? Meaning, can you drop your pins to the lowest part of the sight and get an arrow out that far? Certainly target sights have the ability, but I'm under the impression that hunting sights have a limited amount of travel.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Cman said:


> Wondering one thing - do the hunting sights available today enable you to range to 100 yrds.? Meaning, can you drop your pins to the lowest part of the sight and get an arrow out that far? Certainly target sights have the ability, but I'm under the impression that hunting sights have a limited amount of travel.


Oh you could probably get 140 yards out of a hunting site. (if your anchor point was somewhere around your nipple maybe):laugh:


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## huntnmuleys (Jan 7, 2004)

bowhunterdave said:


> Incorporate Fred Bear as a young rookie and the internet during modern times and he would not stand a chance against this group! I for one think Fred was a pioneer for the times but somone of his exact caliber isnt rare today..times have changed and so should we..as our equipment improves so should our expectations of realistic shot distances.




so what your saying is if our equipment becomes better and more effecient, we should make sure we are closer????

now that makes perfect sense. we would be WAY better off shooting 100 yards at deer with a 1950's recurve then we EVER would be shooting 40 or 50 yards with a new compound.


great point.


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## buckmark23 (Jul 1, 2006)

You are full of it.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

huntnmuleys said:


> so what your saying is if our equipment becomes better and more effecient, we should make sure we are closer????
> 
> now that makes perfect sense. we would be WAY better off shooting 100 yards at deer with a 1950's recurve then we EVER would be shooting 40 or 50 yards with a new compound.
> 
> ...


Have you ever seen some of the hunting films from Fred Bear's days? They really didn't care too much about just wounding animals back then. They saw a deer they wanted they just started flinging arrows at the thing. That was acceptable behavior back then. It isn't in today's woods. Times have changed. Higher standards of conduct. That isn't a bad thing.

This weekend on the outdoor channel they showed a old black and white clip of Howard Hill actually shooting a apple and then a prune off of some guy's head with a unsighted recurve bow. Today that same stunt would probably get him locked up for reckless endangerment. Things were different back then.


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## Dub (Jan 14, 2006)

bowmedic said:


> 96 yards?? That makes my absolute limit of 30 yds look pretty bad. I practice to 50 and group well at 50 but there are too many variables to shoot at live game at 50. I hunt in pretty thick stuff so there is no need to stretch a shot to many times. I know out west in the open country it might be necessary to shoot out and past 50 but 96???? Come on now, are you sure your range finder wasn't miscalibrated??? Good luck with this post by the way.. The judgement should be quick and painfull....



Well said and total agreement here!!


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

Punch_Master said:


> Have you ever seen some of the hunting films from Fred Bear's days? They really didn't care too much about just wounding animals back then. They saw a deer they wanted they just started flinging arrows at the thing. That was acceptable behavior back then. It isn't in today's woods. Times have changed. Higher standards of conduct. That isn't a bad thing.
> 
> This weekend on the outdoor channel they showed a old black and white clip of Howard Hill actually shooting a apple and then a prune off of some guy's head with a unsighted recurve bow. Today that same stunt would probably get him locked up for reckless endangerment. Things were different back then.



Things were better back then.


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## Abraham52 (Jan 7, 2006)

teambringit1 said:


> who would win a shooting contest, this guy, or Ditka?


Ditka-But what about Ditka v. Pippen. Saw on another thread he's a bowhunter now. What if Jordan gets into archery?


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## Stanley (Jan 18, 2005)

Techy said:


> I thought it was 140 yards
> 
> :wink: :tongue:


Do I hear 150?


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

SneakyTree said:


> Things were better back then.


No, we just use better judgement on most things now.


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## trs8804 (Jan 31, 2005)

96 yards huh. I went antelope hunting this year and I'll admit, it is very tough to get close to them. Especially in a spot and stalk. But dang. Thats just not very smart if you ask me. And MAG TEK I think your dad lied to you.:darkbeer:


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## Predator-3 (Sep 25, 2006)

I watched an olympic gold medalist miss a deer at 28 yards so much for the, top shooter theory. Unless you are a "when there is an arrow in the air there's a prayer" type of guy. Besides how could you see with your head up your a#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## huntnmuleys (Jan 7, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> Have you ever seen some of the hunting films from Fred Bear's days? They really didn't care too much about just wounding animals back then. They saw a deer they wanted they just started flinging arrows at the thing. That was acceptable behavior back then. It isn't in today's woods. Times have changed. Higher standards of conduct. That isn't a bad thing.
> 
> This weekend on the outdoor channel they showed a old black and white clip of Howard Hill actually shooting a apple and then a prune off of some guy's head with a unsighted recurve bow. Today that same stunt would probably get him locked up for reckless endangerment. Things were different back then.



i did see that howard hill film. it was on shockeys i think. no way in hell id let him try that with me!!!!!!!

i do agree we hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct, but really, i just dont see how a bowhunter is unethical shooting his deer at 50 or 60 yards. yes they can take a step. but where is string jumping more likely to occur? closer obviously. either way, a movement by the animal is possible. that is a risk with bowhunting. but i do believe that if everybody stays within their personal limits, they should not be ridiculed for it. like some of the guys on here have said, i also no plenty of bowhunters out here who are better at 50 than many are at 20. 

and i dont care if its 70 yards, or 7 feet, i aint letting howard hill or anybody for that matter shoot a prune off my head!!!


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## 3L_Archer (Oct 20, 2005)

tclow said:


> ok let me get this right you shot 96 yds and had a pass through?How many pounds do you pull back?I say nice shot and you the man but hard to believe the pass through part.Any pictures?



Picture doesn't confirm that the shot was 96 yards!:wink: 

3L


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

Punch_Master said:


> No, we just use better judgement on most things now.


Hardly. Have you noticed the world around you lately? Not what I consider better in any way.


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## thejohnchapman (Mar 1, 2005)

Piece of cake. The man simply moved the sights until the antelope was slightly more than halfway between his 90 and 100 yard pins. Anybody knows that.

:cocktail:

I, however, lack a 100 yard pin. My longest shot on a live deer was 35 yards. Because of my range markers, I knew how far away he was, and hit within two inches of my aiming point behind the front shoulder.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

huntnmuleys said:


> i did see that howard hill film. it was on shockeys i think. no way in hell id let him try that with me!!!!!!!
> 
> i do agree we hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct, but really, i just dont see how a bowhunter is unethical shooting his deer at 50 or 60 yards. yes they can take a step. but where is string jumping more likely to occur? closer obviously. either way, a movement by the animal is possible. that is a risk with bowhunting. but i do believe that if everybody stays within their personal limits, they should not be ridiculed for it. like some of the guys on here have said, i also no plenty of bowhunters out here who are better at 50 than many are at 20.
> 
> and i dont care if its 70 yards, or 7 feet, i aint letting howard hill or anybody for that matter shoot a prune off my head!!!


Actually I'd say string jumping is more likely gonna occur at 50 yards if the animal can see the release of the arrow regardless of noise. Like if he's just spotted you while you are at full draw at 50 yards my guess is he will be no where near that arrow when it gets there even with a totally silent rig. I've shot deer literally looking at me at twelve yards and at that range they just plain don't have the time to hardly blink before that arrow smacks them right where it was aimed. INMHO closer ALWAYS beats further.


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## captaincaveman (Sep 27, 2005)

did yall forget Glenn St. Charles' world record caribou taken with a recurve at 150+ yrds? St. Charles, Hill, Bear, and alot of the forfathers of bowhunting used to make 50-100 yrd shots on a regular basis. They must have had better equiptment right 

Josh


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## MK M GOBL (Mar 25, 2005)

I'm wondering how many of the people posting on this thread have actually hunted antelope in open country? Better yet, that should be a requirement to post on this thread. I have no idea what this guys motive was by making this post, but some of the posts that are ripping on him are way too extreme. There have been many of antelope killed at 96 yards with a bow.



phensway said:


> At 100 yards on an antelope your pin would be 3 times its size!!!!!!!! you wouldnt know where to aim, the wind would take an arrow 50 yards off its mark especially in open country..... My longest shot was 24 yards..........


And, no your pin does not cover them up at this distance, unless you are shooting some extremely fat pins (or have 12" arms).


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## wyofoamhunter (Apr 8, 2005)

MK M GOBL said:


> I'm wondering how many of the people posting on this thread have actually hunted antelope in open country? Better yet, that should be a requirement to post on this thread. I have no idea what this guys motive was by making this post, but some of the posts that are ripping on him are way too extreme. There have been many of antelope killed at 96 yards with a bow.


The question shouldn't be how many antelope have been successfully killed with a bow at 96 yards, but how many have been wounded, and never recovered. That should be the thought that is on everyone's mind.

One thing Fred Bear didn't really have to concern himself with, is how hunters are perceived by the non-hunting community, as we are today. 30-40 years ago, people were not putting hunters under a microscope as they do today. Perhaps if FB were still around today, flinging arrows at animals, he might think twice before launching an arrow at an animal, with a lower potential success shot. At least I hope he would.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

I have no comment on the original post, but since this thread has been hijacked anyway............:wink: 

1. Anybody that can hit an 8" circle 5 times out of 10 @ 96 yards is a WORLD CLASS ARCHER.

If you are a world class archer, and you feel that 50% is good averages BEFORE the animals ups the stakes by moving.......fire away.:darkbeer: 

2. There is a BIG difference between a 70 yard shot that has been mentioned a few times, and a 90 plus yard shot.

3. Yep, acceptable standards of conduct for an bowhunter was way different in the days of Howard Hill and Fred Bear. Fred used poison pod and not many folks had a problem with that. Let Jimmy Houston try that today, in or outside of a high fence and see where it gets him! 

4. If you can hear them drinking, they are in range.:tongue:


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## sean (May 31, 2003)

2650 meters British royal marine Barret .50 , Afghanistan


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Punch_Master said:


> Actually I'd say string jumping is more likely gonna occur at 50 yards if the animal can see the release of the arrow regardless of noise.


Exactly the opposite in my actual experience with deer and other animals...at least where they were unaware that I was there. Haven't shot at one at a "long" range (whatever that is) that was on to me...come to think of it, I haven't shot at one at a "close" range (whatever that is) that had me pegged for a long time. Had a bad experience with it several years ago and swore it off.

As far as "closer" (whatever that is) ALWAYS being better than "longer" (whatever that is), well, the problem with absolutes is that they are "always" wrong...do you really think shooting straight down at a deer is a better shot than 20 yards broadside? How about quatering towards at 10 yards, but away at 25 yards? What about a highly alerted to you at 20 yards comapred to a deer totally unaware of your presence at 40 yards? There is such a thing as too close...


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## huntnmuleys (Jan 7, 2004)

i agree with that too close part. that bear i just shot in alaska a couple weeks ago, which was a head on shot, was between 5 and 10 feet!!!!

that was WAY too close


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## TTS in PA (Aug 7, 2006)

*The whole story?*



sean said:


> Howard hill shot at running animals at those distances and more and I have the tembo video to prove it ..


If I'm willing to believe that, are you willing to tell me how many times he's missed or wounded animals running at that distance?


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## HEAD0001 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Long shooter*

I have seen senior citizens, who were grunts, shoot 600 yards off hand with open sights and a Garand. I have seen BPCR shooters shot at 1000 yards with open sights, and hit their targets. I witnessed Fred Bear shoot a recurve across his parking lot in Gainesville, and hit the target matt(every time). I used to attend field archery shoots, these shooters did not have modern high speed equipment, but they hit their targets at great distance. I am not capable of doing any of this, but there are people out there who can. I do not doubt this gentleman, there may or may not be some holes in his story, but I believe it can be done. I personally do not think these type of shots should be taken, but this is his choice not mine. You must see a man shoot a BPCR at 1000 yards. It is an amazing thing, to me the front sight covers up everything, how they do it I do not know, but they do it. Tom.


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## sean (May 31, 2003)

TTS in PA said:


> If I'm willing to believe that, are you willing to tell me how many times he's missed or wounded animals running at that distance?




they dont show him miss at all


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## TTS in PA (Aug 7, 2006)

SneakyTree said:


> And what if a man is hungry and needs the meat? Should he let the animal walk if he knows he can make the shot? I wouldn't. If my family depended on that meat, and I was running out of time, you can bet I'd be taking my chances. You other people can starve.
> QUOTE]
> 
> As one of the archers that feel long shots are high risk and unwise, I feel safe in speaking for those that agree with me that the above situation isn't what we're speaking of. If my family DEPENDED on the meat, I wouldn't care about injured deer. But thats not what were talking about, is it?


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

i shoot every day at 60 yards even with broadheads i hold tight 6" groups. i set my own personal distances for hunting in a variety of situations. if i'm hunting with my compound my max shot is 20 yards with my recurve (a 40 pound recurve at that) my max is 15 yards moose/elk/caribou my max is 45

even though i know i am capable of taking further shots than these and i make a point to practice at further distances these are the limits i set for myself. it is the close encounter with the game that drives me if i just wanted to shoot what ever i saw i would still hunt with a gun. for me the game is all about getting as close as possible and making ethical shots.

every year some jackass has to get on here and give us hunters a bad name by bragging about some insanley stupid shot that they got lucky on. these people have no respect for our sport, the game they hunt, or their fellow hunters. people like this shouldn't even be able to buy a license. almost every state requires a hunter saftey course be passed in order to hunt i think states should implement a hunters ethics course as well.


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## Bowtech Tribute (Jan 28, 2006)

Man, I hope he's just a troll. When I first started hunting, I took a nice buck at 100 yards with a slug gun, and felt bad afterwards because I knew I shouldn't have taken the shot. A bow shot from that far should never even be considered.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

SneakyTree said:


> And what if a man is hungry and needs the meat? Should he let the animal walk if he knows he can make the shot? I wouldn't. If my family depended on that meat, and I was running out of time, you can bet I'd be taking my chances. You other people can starve.



If my family was going hungry, I would NOT own a compound bow and arrows, and realeases, and sights, and rests, and quivers, and camo clothing, and hunting boots. 

Nor would I be so selfish as to use needed money to purchase a hunting license.

And I would not hunt without a license.....get caught, and there is more money taken away from the dinner table.

You can make arguements all day long on either side of this issue, but doing it(taking a really long shot) because you are hungry in the 21st century is not a valid arguement.


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## SilentSniper (Sep 1, 2005)

strange said:


> i made a long shot this week on an antelope the shoot was 96 yard and it was not a fluke i made the shoot again the same day on a target 3" right of center i shoot gold tip and 75 muzzy and had a pass trought heart shoot never shot that for before but we do shot 80s consetant and i have two witneses to the shoot joe



No you didn't


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Predator-3 said:


> I watched an olympic gold medalist miss a deer at 28 yards so much for the, top shooter theory. Unless you are a "when there is an arrow in the air there's a prayer" type of guy. Besides how could you see with your head up your a#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That was my favorite Realtree video......


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

TTS in PA said:


> SneakyTree said:
> 
> 
> > And what if a man is hungry and needs the meat? Should he let the animal walk if he knows he can make the shot? I wouldn't. If my family depended on that meat, and I was running out of time, you can bet I'd be taking my chances. You other people can starve.
> ...


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

Big Country said:


> If my family was going hungry, I would NOT own a compound bow and arrows, and realeases, and sights, and rests, and quivers, and camo clothing, and hunting boots.
> 
> Nor would I be so selfish as to use needed money to purchase a hunting license.
> 
> ...


Well, my friend, I hope you never fall on hard times.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

BOWGOD said:


> every year some jackass has to get on here and give us hunters a bad name by bragging about some insanley stupid shot that they got lucky on. these people have no respect for our sport, the game they hunt, or their fellow hunters. people like this shouldn't even be able to buy a license. almost every state requires a hunter saftey course be passed in order to hunt i think states should implement a hunters ethics course as well.


Seems to me that about every day a group on one side of an issue get on this board and call the group on the other side "unethical" or not "true" hunters, or donkeys, or stupid, or...for doing what they did. Be it "long" shots (whatever those are), button bucks, does, small bucks, shot angles, baiting, broadheads, and the list goes on.

So let's see, we have a group who call other hunters "unethical" and everything else, even though that group doesn't know the person or circumstances behind the act. The group does this because another person did something that does not conform to the groups personal beliefs, and therefore, it is wrong, bad, unethical...because the group says so. 

Tell me, what is worse for hunting, a person following their ethics, skill, and knowledge and taking an animal legally, and disregarding the "rules" of the group, and writing about it; or a group of hunters coming to a public place and calling another hunter "unethical", not a "true" hunter, a donkey, etc. just because he or she did something that did not fall within the group's rules? Do you really favor other people who have no idea who you are making personal decisions for you and telling you how to do things? I can think of a few of my pet peeves...now if I can just get a group to agree, we can change the world, or at least ridicule those who do not conform to our beliefs. That sure makes sense... 

If you are really worried about the image of our sport, maybe you might think a little less about name calling and further fractionalizing our sport, especially because you don't know who or what you are talking about in these specific situations. Maybe try to understand that there are a whole lot of hunters out there with widely differing skills, views, beliefs and hunting situations.

And let me say yet again, ethics are by their very definition personal in nature, it is not for you to determine mine, just as it is not for me to determine yours or anyone elses. Do you really want the government to do that for you? Remember, once the government starts determining an individuals personal hunting ethics, it is not a big step until they start determining all of your poersonal ethics.

My, what a hypocritical group we have become...


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Rolo said:


> Seems to me that about every day a group on one side of an issue get on this board and call the group on the other side "unethical" or not "true" hunters, or donkeys, or stupid, or...for doing what they did. Be it "long" shots (whatever those are), button bucks, does, small bucks, shot angles, baiting, broadheads, and the list goes on.
> 
> So let's see, we have a group who call other hunters "unethical" and everything else, even though that group doesn't know the person or circumstances behind the act. The group does this because another person did something that does not conform to the groups personal beliefs, and therefore, it is wrong, bad, unethical...because the group says so.
> 
> ...


Totally disagree with you. Society teaches it's rules by making examples out of those who live outside it's rules be they written or unwritten. If you speed you get a ticket. If you post something that goes against what the majority believe expect to get ridiculed for it. That is how we as hunters police ourselves. We police ourselves so that we don't have to have others doing it for us.


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## RedRocket_22 (Oct 18, 2005)

These long shots are not fun, what ever happened to being so close that your nerves mad you tremble. Thats why I go back everytime and climb up that mountain. Bowhunters are "in my opinion" supposed to be just that, hunters or stalkers and take more of the heat off of just shooting. I think it was well said, get a rifle and just pull the trigger. 

I hope with today's bows being so amazing this isn't the future of bowhunting. That straight takes a dump on the whole pope and young thing.

"my two pennies, I guess."


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

RedRocket_22 said:


> These long shots are not fun, what ever happened to being so close that your nerves mad you tremble. Thats why I go back everytime and climb up that mountain. Bowhunters are "in my opinion" supposed to be just that, hunters or stalkers and take more of the heat off of just shooting. I think it was well said, get a rifle and just pull the trigger.
> 
> I hope with today's bows being so amazing this isn't the future of bowhunting. That straight takes a dump on the whole pope and young thing.
> 
> "my two pennies, I guess."


I agree, Maybe we as hunters need to spend more time on our stalking skills and less time getting more range from our bows.


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## siucowboy (Aug 31, 2006)

Rolo said:


> Seems to me that about every day a group on one side of an issue get on this board and call the group on the other side "unethical" or not "true" hunters, or donkeys, or stupid, or...for doing what they did. Be it "long" shots (whatever those are), button bucks, does, small bucks, shot angles, baiting, broadheads, and the list goes on.
> 
> So let's see, we have a group who call other hunters "unethical" and everything else, even though that group doesn't know the person or circumstances behind the act. The group does this because another person did something that does not conform to the groups personal beliefs, and therefore, it is wrong, bad, unethical...because the group says so.
> 
> ...


Well I have to completey AGREE with my fellow nebraskan....


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## Josh Michaelis (Sep 16, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> I agree, Maybe we as hunters need to spend more time on our stalking skills and less time getting more range from our bows.



Well Maybe we as hunters need to quit worrying about the guy next to us and let him shoot however far he wants.

When it comes to ethics, we need to just teach our kids what we believe, and past that......mind our own damn buisiness


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

Rolo Writes:


> And let me say yet again, ethics are by their very definition personal in nature, it is not for you to determine mine, just as it is not for me to determine yours or anyone elses. Do you really want the government to do that for you? Remember, once the government starts determining an individuals personal hunting ethics, it is not a big step until they start determining all of your poersonal ethics.


Buzzzt... Wrong... ethics, by their very nature, are the sum standards of acceptable behavior as established by the GROUP or Society to which to they belong, or strive to belong to. 

There is no such thing as individual ethics that exist in a vacuum of one. Ethics are determined by teaching of the group and are enforced in one way, and in one way only.. by the peer pressure of the group or its elders.

Pressure is applied in waves.. first with constructive criticism to bring the offender back into the fold, then by shunning the offender into compliance, and finally by complete ostracism. At no time can society FORCE an offender to correct his behavior (back to the group standard)... all change MUST come from the individual offender. The offender chooses to comply (and thereby rejoin the group in good graces) or can choose to ignore the peer pressure, ultimately deciding for himself that his standards of behavior do not fit that group or society, at which point he chooses to leave of his own free will.

The government has NOTHING to do with ethics (boy, aint that the truth)... its all about how the group has evolved and what standards of behavior are acceptable to the group. There can be no ethics without group consensus, and group enforcement. When members of a group act outside the accepted standards of behavior, it is the Group's responsibility to make corrections.

An individual that is left to make these decisions by himself.. for himself is operating in an Anarchy, anything goes... Just like Outback.. No Rules, Mate...


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Punch_Master said:


> Totally disagree with you. Society teaches it's rules by making examples out of those who live outside it's rules be they written or unwritten. If you speed you get a ticket. If you post something that goes against what the majority believe expect to get ridiculed for it. That is how we as hunters police ourselves. We police ourselves so that we don't have to have others doing it for us.


Please direct me to the hunters rule book that has been adopted and approved and established for all of us. I know that the Pope & Young book speaks of "fair chase" in very broad terms, but I have yet to find where it specifically speaks to shot distance, broadheads, baiting, etc. If you have been following these threads, you would have noticed that there really isn't a clear majority on any of these issues...so what are the rules again?

Speeding, by the way is a bad example. First it is a public safety concern, that endangers other persons. Second it is a legislatively enacted law, which is much different than a rule. So do you propose allowing the legislature to write all the rules of hunting?

Interesting that you say "we police ourselves so that we don't have to have others doing it for us." You see, when you start policing the hunting methods and practices of others, be it shot distance, baiting, equipment... you are doing exactly that which you fear...policing others and their methods that you know nothing about. In other words you are the "other" doing it for us.

And so you don't get confused, I am not saying it is wrong to encourage another hunter to become proficient at their game, to practice, to take good shots, to encourage them. What I am saying is that it is wrong for you or anyone else to force your rules, whatever they may be, on anyone else, so long as their acts are legal, especially when you know nothing of the person or circumstances. 

Whether it is some arbitrary distance, broadhead, bow, style of hunting...if you chose to do so, then you are some other person making the rules. I am pretty sure that if we went down the road you are traveling, we could always find a group on every hunting issue that would say it is wrong and against the rules...the end result would be that no single person is hunting within the rules, and hunting ceases. Look at the issues on this board, from shot distance, to baiting, to broadhead, to bow...do you really want to keep going down that road? 

You do realize that some hunters agreed with the concept of eliminating spring bear hunting in Ontario? Others agreed with the idea of eliminating bait and hound hunting in some of the western states? Why, because these methods did not fall within their "rules" and therefore they were bad and had to be policed. Yes, with all of our infighting, I am sure we too can eliminate our sport...maybe before you and others are so quick to ridicule, you should stop for just a moment and think about what you are really doing, and whether you really want to keep going down that road...


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

From the book, Rifle in Hand, by James Posewitz

"Tolerance of the lowest ethical standards for the sake of unity simply demeans us all"


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

siucowboy said:


> Well I have to completey AGREE with my fellow nebraskan....


Fellow former Haymaker myself.


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

siucowboy said:


> Well I have to completey AGREE with my fellow nebraskan....


I'm not from Nebraska, but I have to agree as well.


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

Rolo said:


> Please direct me to the hunters rule book that has been adopted and approved and established for all of us. I know that the Pope & Young book speaks of "fair chase" in very broad terms, but I have yet to find where it specifically speaks to shot distance, broadheads, baiting, etc. If you have been following these threads, you would have noticed that there really isn't a clear majority on any of these issues...so what are the rules again?
> 
> Speeding, by the way is a bad example. First it is a public safety concern, that endangers other persons. Second it is a legislatively enacted law, which is much different than a rule. So do you propose allowing the legislature to write all the rules of hunting?
> 
> ...



Have you taken an IBEP course? You may wanna start your research on "rules" i.e. acceptable standards of behavior there.


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## alaskan_coondog (Oct 19, 2005)

*I saw*

I watched a caribou get shot at 95 yards. I watched the whole senario through my binoculars at a distance. It was sad. The animal was gut shot and suffered for an hour. It ran with its intestines hanging out, right across the road in front of a motorhome that was full of tourests. Truly sad. When I talked to the guy about the next day, he had forgotten all about the damage he did to our sport. All he remembered was to brag about how good he was with his bow. Oh and through further investigation I found out hes so good he only needs to practice once or twice before the season. Talented archer....or bag of crap? After talking to him I say the latter! 

Only you decide your own ethics. Im not saying this is how yours went down. But after watching how bad all of this was, it upset me hearing him bragging to so many people about this caribou. This one person obviously knows many hunters. I have since talked to 3.....thats right 3 guys who put 80 yard pins on sfter hearing about how easy it is to kill a bou at those distance. I really think that 7 pin sight models should have never hit the market. 

Please dont get me wrong. Im not saying limit yourself to 15 yards. Every senario is different. But my bou I shot at 50 yards this year was not a pass through. It very easy for treestand hunters to say 30 yards. But at times as a spot and stalk guy you have to reach out a little. The question is how far? How far is too far? I had a nice moose broadside at 60 yards last week. Huge kill zone, I know I could have made the shot, but what is the effective range of a bow vs a 1200 lb animal? My buddy said, it will kill it. But my question was.....how long could it take? Will I find it? I wanted 40 or closer on a big ole moose. 

BTW I didnt get one......thats huntin!:mg: 

If you truly made a shot that far and are that good, than great. But dont tell too many people about it. Woops too late. I guarantee someone will read this thread and say, MAN I CAN DO THAT! Its sad.


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

Okay, if long shots are "unethical", then tell me, what shall we define as a long shot, and who's ethics are we all going to use as the standard?


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

alaskan_coondog said:


> I guarantee someone will read this thread and say, MAN I CAN DO THAT! Its sad.


And they are accountable for their own actions.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

SneakyTree said:


> And they are accountable for their own actions.


No that's where you are wrong. Unless we hunters enforce our own ethics someday we will all be held accountable for the slob hunters amongest us.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

alaskan_coondog said:


> I watched a caribou get shot at 95 yards. I watched the whole senario through my binoculars at a distance. It was sad. The animal was gut shot and suffered for an hour. It ran with its intestines hanging out, right across the road in front of a motorhome that was full of tourests. Truly sad. When I talked to the guy about the next day, he had forgotten all about the damage he did to our sport. All he remembered was to brag about how good he was with his bow. Oh and through further investigation I found out hes so good he only needs to practice once or twice before the season. Talented archer....or bag of crap? After talking to him I say the latter!
> 
> Only you decide your own ethics. Im not saying this is how yours went down. But after watching how bad all of this was, it upset me hearing him bragging to so many people about this caribou. This one person obviously knows many hunters. I have since talked to 3.....thats right 3 guys who put 80 yard pins on sfter hearing about how easy it is to kill a bou at those distance. I really think that 7 pin sight models should have never hit the market.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. here, here. We don't need anymore bad examples of things not to do.


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## Josh Michaelis (Sep 16, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> No that's where you are wrong. Unless we hunters enforce our own ethics someday we will all be held accountable for the slob hunters amongest us.


Whos ethics? yours? Mine? Traditional Bowhunters? Rifle hunters? Trappers?, you tell me whos eithics we can set at a gold standard and myself and thousands of others will say your wrong


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

Punch_Master said:


> No that's where you are wrong. Unless we hunters enforce our own ethics someday we will all be held accountable for the slob hunters amongest us.


Dagnabbit Punch.. if peoples sees us agreeing on stuff.. theys is gonna tawk...:wink:


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

alaskan_coondog said:


> I watched a caribou get shot at 95 yards. I watched the whole senario through my binoculars at a distance. It was sad. The animal was gut shot and suffered for an hour. It ran with its intestines hanging out, right across the road in front of a motorhome that was full of tourests. Truly sad. When I talked to the guy about the next day, he had forgotten all about the damage he did to our sport. All he remembered was to brag about how good he was with his bow. Oh and through further investigation I found out hes so good he only needs to practice once or twice before the season. Talented archer....or bag of crap? After talking to him I say the latter!


I doubt that the "damage" that was done by this shot would have been any different if the shot had been from 10, or 20, or 30...yards. A bad shot on an animal is a bad shot regardless of distance. Was this particular shot a combination of distance and lack of practice, probably...but I would place the emphasis on the lack of practice at any range than the range of the shot. From the sounds of the story, it appears that the outcome likely could have been the same from a "close" shot.

I may even go so far as to say that a bad shot at a "close" range, say 30 yards and in, causes more "damage" than a "long" shot. You see, the non-hunting public may say: "If they can't hit where they should from that close, maybe they shouldn't be hunting with bows and arrows at all..." Read a lot more threads on this board about the bad shots at "close" range, than any other bad shots. Funny thing is, some excuse these bad shots as something that happens and is acceptable, because after all, the shots were made within the magic "right" range. Now, some one else posts a thread about a good shot made outside the magic / mandatory "ethical" distance, and others jump all over the person for making such an "unethical" yet successful shot. Just a thought...

My, what a hypocritical group we have become...


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

alaskan_coondog said:


> I watched a caribou get shot at 95 yards. I watched the whole senario through my binoculars at a distance. It was sad. The animal was gut shot and suffered for an hour. It ran with its intestines hanging out, right across the road in front of a motorhome that was full of tourests. Truly sad. When I talked to the guy about the next day, he had forgotten all about the damage he did to our sport. All he remembered was to brag about how good he was with his bow. Oh and through further investigation I found out hes so good he only needs to practice once or twice before the season. Talented archer....or bag of crap? After talking to him I say the latter!
> 
> Only you decide your own ethics. Im not saying this is how yours went down. But after watching how bad all of this was, it upset me hearing him bragging to so many people about this caribou. This one person obviously knows many hunters. I have since talked to 3.....thats right 3 guys who put 80 yard pins on sfter hearing about how easy it is to kill a bou at those distance. I really think that 7 pin sight models should have never hit the market.
> 
> ...



For some people.. 30 yards is a long shot.. (circumstances certainly will play into it)... for other people 20 yards is a long shot... for others, 50 yards under perfect conditions might be considered.... we could split hairs for every yard and inch, however... 95 yards is longer than most anyone would find reasonable.. not in terms of how good an archer the arrow flinger is... but rather.. the total amount of time from release to impact (lethal or otherwise) and how far the animal might move during that extended period of time...at 250 ft/sec... the total time in flight would be 1.14 seconds... if a deer moved at only 2mph... it would travel 2.93 ft during the time the arrow was in flight... enough for a gut shot or hopefully a complete miss. The arrow flinging guy has no control over this movement....


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Rolo said:


> Please direct me to the hunters rule book that has been adopted and approved and established for all of us. I know that the Pope & Young book speaks of "fair chase" in very broad terms, but I have yet to find where it specifically speaks to shot distance, broadheads, baiting, etc. If you have been following these threads, you would have noticed that there really isn't a clear majority on any of these issues...so what are the rules again?
> 
> Speeding, by the way is a bad example. First it is a public safety concern, that endangers other persons. Second it is a legislatively enacted law, which is much different than a rule. So do you propose allowing the legislature to write all the rules of hunting?
> 
> ...


Oh please don't hide behind the "where are the rules written down" spiel. Society has lots of unwritten rules of behavior. For instance if you enter a bathroom with three urinals. The first one is occuppied the other two are open. Which one do you take? 90% of men will take the one furtherest from the occupied one. Why? because you don't intrude on another mans space anymore than you have to. It's politeness. It's also unwritten. So are reasonable limits on shot distance with bow and arrow.


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## siucowboy (Aug 31, 2006)

alaskan_coondog said:


> I watched a caribou get shot at 95 yards. I watched the whole senario through my binoculars at a distance. It was sad. The animal was gut shot and suffered for an hour. It ran with its intestines hanging out, right across the road in front of a motorhome that was full of tourests. Truly sad. When I talked to the guy about the next day, he had forgotten all about the damage he did to our sport. All he remembered was to brag about how good he was with his bow. Oh and through further investigation I found out hes so good he only needs to practice once or twice before the season. Talented archer....or bag of crap? After talking to him I say the latter!
> 
> Only you decide your own ethics. Im not saying this is how yours went down. But after watching how bad all of this was, it upset me hearing him bragging to so many people about this caribou. This one person obviously knows many hunters. I have since talked to 3.....thats right 3 guys who put 80 yard pins on sfter hearing about how easy it is to kill a bou at those distance. I really think that 7 pin sight models should have never hit the market.
> 
> ...



I agree with you completely....as a rule I avoid any mention of shot distance when telling a story, especially depending on my audience....not because I take a lot of long shots, but because "long" means something different to everyone....i've seen guys that have no place hunting with a bow at 20 yards get on me for shooting an elk at 40 yards...

What's too long for whitetails in a treestand in IL is super close for Mule Deer in the sandhills....


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## Josh Michaelis (Sep 16, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> It's also unwritten. So are reasonable limits on shot distance with bow and arrow.


Please inform me what the unwritten Rule is for a reasonable shot distance? How far can I shoot at a Whitetail? How far can I shoot a Muley? How far can I shoot a Turkey?


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Josh Michaelis said:


> Please inform me what the unwritten Rule is for a reasonable shot distance? How far can I shoot at a Whitetail? How far can I shoot a Muley? How far can I shoot a Turkey?


The unwritten rule is that your distance should be short enough so that when made public knowledge the majority of hunters dont tell you that it was a unethical shot. I can guarantee you that the majority of hunters will say that 95 yards is unethical.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Punch_Master said:


> So are reasonable limits on shot distance with bow and arrow.


Reasonable?...Reasonable? Exactly what is that? Reasonable for whom? Who decides "reasonable"? Are there sub-sects of "reasonable" based upon equipment? Skill level? Years spent hunting? Age? Eyesight? Strength? Or is there just one "reasonable" distance that all should adhere to regardless of the other factors? Do you really mean to suggest that the novice bowhunter's "reasonable" shot distance is the same as the expert? The guy who doesn't practice at all, has the same "reasonable" distance that the guy who shoots daily?

So now that you have changed from a definite distance of X yards as the maximum...what pray tell is the "reasonable" distance? Is it the same for traditional as it is for compound? Is it the same for youth as adults? Same for lefties as it is righties? 

Oh, yeah, who gets to decide for me or anyone else what "reasonable" is? Isn't that others deciding for us? Interesting that you accuse me of "hiding", yet you have failed to address every point I have made, and now have turned it to what is "reasonable" and what is not. Here's the fact, what is reasonable to one may be unreasonable to another...assign whatever number you want to it, but you can always find some one or a group who will say that the number is unreasonable.

Gets me back to my point, and the point of others...so who gets to decide what is reasonable for others again? Sorry, but it is not for me to decide what is reasonable for you to do, just as it is not for you to decide for me what is reasonable.

Was it reasonable for other hunters who didn't approve of a certain method of hunting to fight for its elimination? If you answer yes to that question, we really are doomed.


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## Josh Michaelis (Sep 16, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> The unwritten rule is that your distance should be short enough so that when made public knowledge the majority of hunters dont tell you that it was a unethical shot. I can guarantee you that the majority of hunters will say that 95 yards is unethical.



Okay, so most people who hunt primarily mule deer and pronghorn commonly take shots out to 60 yards.

people who sit in a stand and hunt only whitetails wont shoot past 40. What is the unwritten rule for different species? We need to just write these down, make a code of conduct, and Hire Slippy to run around and flash the people that dont obey the rules/ :cocktail:


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## huntfish25 (May 29, 2004)

iit ok to shoot a elk 1000yards or a whitetail 300-400yards but god forbid if somebody shoot a bow over 20 yards. you guys need to pratice more. great shooting 96yards is a great shot i wish i could do that. i pratice 80 yards this year maybe i move up next year. i did shoot a 100yard sghot in a pie plate but it was luck


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Rolo said:


> Reasonable?...Reasonable? Exactly what is that? Reasonable for whom? Who decides "reasonable"? Are there sub-sects of "reasonable" based upon equipment? Skill level? Years spent hunting? Age? Eyesight? Strength? Or is there just one "reasonable" distance that all should adhere to regardless of the other factors? Do you really mean to suggest that the novice bowhunter's "reasonable" shot distance is the same as the expert? The guy who doesn't practice at all, has the same "reasonable" distance that the guy who shoots daily?
> 
> So now that you have changed from a definite distance of X yards as the maximum...what pray tell is the "reasonable" distance? Is it the same for traditional as it is for compound? Is it the same for youth as adults? Same for lefties as it is righties?
> 
> ...


Yep it a sliding scale. All kind of factors involved an done on a case by case basis. I can say that I can't imagine the scenario that would make 95 yards ethical. Even if it was drugged and tied to a tree that's still a unethical shot.



> Was it reasonable for other hunters who didn't approve of a certain method of hunting to fight for its elimination?


I guess that depends on whether a particular hunting method had a effect on me or my life. If it does affect me then yes I can voice my opinion but if it has no effect on me then no I should leave it alone.

In closing, it sounds to me that all you want is a excuse to go out and fester up anything that is brown and furry. You can't get close so you just want to take whatever shot you can get and still feel good about the ones you just wound and never find.


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## highdeehoo (Apr 10, 2005)

*Wounded animals*

Most of the post I see mention wounding an animal at that range. LIKE RANGE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT! Peaple make bad shots at 20 yds all the time. How many gut shots get lost every year? How many animals are lost on "I made a good shot"? This guy made a nice shot!Recovered his animal! What about the posts that say"lost one last night" You guys aren't pissed at them for loosing one, but your pissed at this guy for MAKING the shot.
A shot at that distance is a possible shot.As far as moving,animals can move at any range. Unspooked animal at long range. I practice for it.

Great shot and congradulations on that antelope!

Mark


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Punch_Master said:


> Yep it a sliding scale. All kind of factors involved an done on a case by case basis. I can say that I can't imagine the scenario that would make 95 yards ethical. Even if it was drugged and tied to a tree that's still a unethical shot.
> 
> I guess that depends on whether a particular hunting method had a effect on me or my life. If it does affect me then yes I can voice my opinion but if it has no effect on me then no I should leave it alone.


So since it is a sliding scale, then we can't establish a definitive distance as the maximum...funny, that is what I have always said.

I can easily imagine where a 95 yard shot may be not only ethical but necessary. Follow up shot for example. Go read Jerry/NJ's post on long range practice and follow up shots.

So tell me, how does my hunting method have an effect on your life? Near as I can tell, you have absolutely no idea who I or many of the other posters on this board are, yet you feel it necessary to ridicule them for their acts. How does that effect you again? Follow your own words on this...leave some issues which you don't know about and don't effect you alone and be a little less quick to ridicule.

What alarms me more is your general apathy to those issues that don't personally effect you...you maintain that if they don't effect you, you will leave them alone. Now, we ain't talking shot distance or equipment here, we're talking hunting methods. So if some group comes to your state and wants to stop your methods of hunting, I assume you will do everything you can to stop them. But, by your own statement, if that group goes somewhere else to stop a different method of hunting, that does not effect you, you will do nothing. You are an Anti's dream...divide and conquer. I am sure the lion and bear hunters of the west will be more than happy to support you against the group trying to eliminate your style of hunting, since you are so willing to stay quiet about their's.

Here's an interesting concept...support hunting...all legal forms...do what you can to prevent others from stopping forms of hunting that do not effect you...because if you do nothing, then those groups will soon focus on what personally effects you, and those who you chose not to support, will not be there to support you. It really is that simple.

I support hunting, period.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

95 yards is NEVER ethical. It might be all the shot you are gonna get but it's NEVER gonna be ethical. Way too much arrow flight time. Don't care what the shooter's skill level is.

Slob hunting does effect me and my hunting. The more slob hunters the more ammunition the antis have and the easier it will be to take my hunting away from me cause some clown takes irresponcible shots and wounds more than he kills.

I do support all forms of legal hunting and have done so for years. You dont know who you are commenting about either.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Punch_Master said:


> The unwritten rule is that your distance should be short enough so that when made public knowledge the majority of hunters dont tell you that it was a unethical shot. I can guarantee you that the majority of hunters will say that 95 yards is unethical.


So if you never reveal what the distance of the shot was, there would be no ridicule or accusations of being unethical, and therefore there would be no unethical shots? It is now based upon what is said publicly, instead of what actually happened. 

Gee, I know a few people who say anything over 30 yards is unethical, yet they have never helped me trail a wounded animal that I shot, whether it be under or over 30 yards, yet I have helped them with several poorly shot deer that were shot inside of the magical majority decides ethical range. Maybe it has more to do with the skill of the person than the range the majority decides. Especially if the majority doesn't practice beyond the magical number, or practice at all, or who can't shoot an 8" group at 20 yards, yet believe it "ethical" to shoot at 30, because after all the "majority" of bowhunters say such a shot is ethical based upon a number, not skill.

The "reasonable" becomes more unreasonable the more we go down this road...


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Punch_Master said:


> 95 yards is NEVER ethical. It might be all the shot you are gonna get but it's NEVER gonna be ethical. Way too much arrow flight time. Don't care what the shooter's skill level is.


So if the difference is between losing a wounded animal and recovering it is taking a shot at 95 yards or not, you believe it more ethical to lose the animal...let it suffer, which in your earlier posts you seemed to rail against, then attempt to do something that will lead to its recovery and quick death.

Wow, what is more "ethical", ending suffering as quickly or humanely as possible? Or letting an animal suffer and die, all beacuse you are unwilling to take ANY shot at a certain distance?

The road to unreasonableness continues...


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## bowhuntrrl (Oct 9, 2004)

sean said:


> Howard hill shot at running animals at those distances and more and I have the tembo video to prove it ..



As well as Fred Bear. These pioneers in archery took many 100 yard shots and cleanly killed animals at that yardage with longbows. In my opinion, archery doesn't need this "political correctness" of yardage limitations imposed by others because of their personal opinions or lack of shooting ability. Hunting is a personal thing, let's just leave it at that !!! 

That being said, I'm aware of a 111 yard (lazered) kill on a bull elk that resulted in a passthrough. 100 lb/30" draw bow, 568 grains @ 310 fps. This was not done by me but by a western guide who also bow hunts.


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

*Longest Confirmed*

archery kill on record, Larry Bennington, Evansville, Indiana, 238 yard kill shot on a whitetail doe in 1988.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Rolo said:


> So if the difference is between losing a wounded animal and recovering it is taking a shot at 95 yards or not, you believe it more ethical to lose the animal...let it suffer, which in your earlier posts you seemed to rail against, then attempt to do something that will lead to its recovery and quick death.
> 
> Wow, what is more "ethical", ending suffering as quickly or humanely as possible? Or letting an animal suffer and die, all beacuse you are unwilling to take ANY shot at a certain distance?
> 
> The road to unreasonableness continues...


That's a bullcrap scenario. If it's wounded and at 95 yrds I'm either gonna get closer until I can take a better shot or if it's bedded down I'm gonna wait right there for it to die and not spook it by shooting at with a low percentage shot. That is the quickest most humane way to harvest that animal.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

bowhuntrrl said:


> As well as Fred Bear. These pioneers in archery took many 100 yard shots and cleanly killed animals at that yardage with longbows. In my opinion, archery doesn't need this "political correctness" of yardage limitations imposed by others because of their personal opinions or lack of shooting ability. Hunting is a personal thing, let's just leave it at that !!!
> 
> That being said, I'm aware of a 111 yard (lazered) kill on a bull elk that resulted in a passthrough. 100 lb/30" draw bow, 568 grains @ 310 fps. This was not done by me but by a western guide who also bow hunts.


And as it was said on other pages of this thread, yes they took those shots. And they either wounded or missed more than they took that way to. That didn't matter to them back then. It does matter today. They edited the bad shots out of their films.


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Stanley said:


> It’s now time to bend over grab your ankles and belly up to the kicking post.


*ROFLMAO!!!*


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Punch_Master said:


> That's a bullcrap scenario. If it's wounded and at 95 yrds I'm either gonna get closer until I can take a better shot or if it's bedded down I'm gonna wait right there for it to die and not spook it by shooting at with a low percentage shot. That is the quickest most humane way to harvest that animal.


Unfortunately, it's not a "bullcrap" scenario, and is played out yearly all over the country. I told you where to go read about it, and I didn't even post that thread. If you want to continue to bury your head in the sand and live on absolutes, great for you, but you do so at the expense of knowledge and at the expense of hunting.

Now, do you want to keep going down your road...or do you want to help and support all hunting? The latter seems to be the only logical and reasonable choice, but somehow I just don't think you can get by your preconcieved notions of your personal right and wrong to see the big picture...


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## huntnmuleys (Jan 7, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> That's a bullcrap scenario. If it's wounded and at 95 yrds I'm either gonna get closer until I can take a better shot or if it's bedded down I'm gonna wait right there for it to die and not spook it by shooting at with a low percentage shot. That is the quickest most humane way to harvest that animal.




no, thats not a bullcrap scenario. you might have to hunt outside of maryland to believe that, but it happens. if i hit something, and can only get to 95 yards undetected, im gonna shoot from there (hasnt happened to me yet, but did my brother, got to 90 and heart shot him. call it luck but thats what happened). if somethings hit, we have the responsibility to kill it as quickly as possible. sometimes that means shooting further. 

punchmaster, ive read a lot of your posts on this and other topics, and while i feel you are a very ethical hunter, i just think your wrong on this one.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Rolo said:


> Seems to me that about every day a group on one side of an issue get on this board and call the group on the other side "unethical" or not "true" hunters, or donkeys, or stupid, or...for doing what they did. Be it "long" shots (whatever those are), button bucks, does, small bucks, shot angles, baiting, broadheads, and the list goes on.
> 
> So let's see, we have a group who call other hunters "unethical" and everything else, even though that group doesn't know the person or circumstances behind the act. The group does this because another person did something that does not conform to the groups personal beliefs, and therefore, it is wrong, bad, unethical...because the group says so.
> 
> ...





explain to me how this can even come close to being considered an ethical shot the guy who posted this thread clearly stated that he had never practiced at this range in fact the 96 yard shot at the animal was the first shot he ever took at such a range. so if you can convince me that just throwing arrows up in the air and hoping for luck is some way ethical. fact of the matter is the guy got lucky i've done it but never on a live animal i won 20.00 shooting at a 3d target and somehow found the 10 ring at 98 yards does that qualify my to go shooting at game at 100 yards i don't think so. i understand completly that different game and different terrain require different shot distances. and there are many many ethical hunters who take many shots further than the ranges i have set for myself. i don't expect anyone to hold themself to the shot distances i hold myself to. i stay at such close distance because to me it's much more of a challenge to get within 15 yards of game than it is for me to shoot 50. but i don't care who you are or where your hunting 100 yard shots with a bow are uncalled for. there is waay my much of a time lapse from when the arrow is released to when the arrow reaches the target. even if your animal is completly relaxed and has no idea you are even there what is going to make that animal hold perfectly still until the arrow gets there ? absoloutly nothing so say the arrow is release and the animal takes 2 steps forward to eat that patch of grass in front of him now the arrow is headed no where near it's kill zone. 

you can go back and search all of my post i have been a member here for quite a while and you will see that i do not go around passing judgment on everyone who doesn't conform to my beliefs. for the most part i don't even get involved in bickering threads it's not my style an i like to be more responsible than that.


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

Rolo said:


> Reasonable?...Reasonable? Exactly what is that? Reasonable for whom? Who decides "reasonable"? Are there sub-sects of "reasonable" based upon equipment? Skill level? Years spent hunting? Age? Eyesight? Strength? Or is there just one "reasonable" distance that all should adhere to regardless of the other factors? Do you really mean to suggest that the novice bowhunter's "reasonable" shot distance is the same as the expert? The guy who doesn't practice at all, has the same "reasonable" distance that the guy who shoots daily?
> 
> So now that you have changed from a definite distance of X yards as the maximum...what pray tell is the "reasonable" distance? Is it the same for traditional as it is for compound? Is it the same for youth as adults? Same for lefties as it is righties?
> 
> ...



There are two components to completing a killing shot with a bow... the archery skill of the shooter and the independent actions of the animal between the time the arrow is released and the time it arrives near its destination.

A reasonable, ethical archer will determine his own, personal "effective range".. a distance within which he can consistently place arrows inside an area that represents the vital zone of the animal he is hunting. This means under ALL conditions, not simply at a pre-determined or KNOWN yardage. Sitting, standing, kneeling... wind, etc. A hunting archer should know not only how far he can be consistent, but also (honestly) determining when he is no longer consistent. Once he knows these distances, if he releases an arrow outside this first phase, he is, by definition, being unethical.

Secondly... a hunting archer should also be cognizant of animal behavior and recognize how far even an unalarmed animal MIGHT move (of its own volition) in the time it takes for the projectile to arrive (time from release to impact).

The longer the yardage, the greater the margin for error. Most responsible hunters, hunters who place their respect for the quarry ABOVE their desire to gain bragging rights with their buddies, understand that shots beyond 50 yards come with a tremendous amount of potential that the animal will move before the arrow arrives and then responsbility make efforts to close the distance or refrain from the high potential of creating a wounded, instead of dead animal. 

There is absolutely no argument that might suggest that a hunter can determine with any certainty, that an animal will not move within the next full second. A 95 yard shot that hits the animal is dependent upon two things happening. The arrow that is placed correctly, and an animal that decides to stay still. You can practice for one of the two, but not both. I invite anyone who protests to define their practice routine for me.

If a new hunter takes to the woods after practicing for a total one hour, who can put 50% of his arrows in the vital zone at 20 yards, is called what? Ethical? I think not, but hey, Im expressing my opinion in terms of how we, as sportsmen determine the ethical tenents we SAY we employ while hunting.

If Mr. Longshot 95 can place all of his arrows in the vital zone of a paper target at 95 yards, but has a 50% chance that the live deer will still be where he aimed after 1.14 seconds... is this hunter better than the newbie by virtue of his demonstrated archery skill, or is he simply another unethical "hunter" taking un-necessary chances with the life of an animal he professes to "respect"? The factors in the equation are different, but the differential remains at 50%. It could be easily argued that the newbie, unpracticed hunter who restricts himself to 20 yard shots is AS ETHICAL as the tremendously talented archer, who chooses to HUNT at 95 yards. Anyone care to defend the newbie with the comment that only HIS ethics are important to the society or group of hunting archers on the whole?


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

I don't think the critics here understand the point behind ethics. If they did, surely they could define for us a maximum ethical distance. I'm still waiting on that.

I also think it's funny that hunters worry about giving ammo to the anti-hunters. HAH! Get a clue! It's not bad shots that they hate, it's hunting period! They already have their ammo, and it's useless. They are fanatics, and nobody listens to them. Doesn't matter how far we shoot at game. You can limit yourself to 5 yards, and they will still hate hunting. Doesn't matter to them!


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

BOWGOD said:


> explain to me how this can even come close to being considered an ethical shot the guy who posted this thread clearly stated that he had never practiced at this range in fact the 96 yard shot at the animal was the first shot he ever took at such a range. so if you can convince me that just throwing arrows up in the air and hoping for luck is some way ethical. fact of the matter is the guy got lucky i've done it but never on a live animal i won 20.00 shooting at a 3d target and somehow found the 10 ring at 98 yards does that qualify my to go shooting at game at 100 yards i don't think so. i understand completly that different game and different terrain require different shot distances. and there are many many ethical hunters who take many shots further than the ranges i have set for myself. i don't expect anyone to hold themself to the shot distances i hold myself to. i stay at such close distance because to me it's much more of a challenge to get within 15 yards of game than it is for me to shoot 50. but i don't care who you are or where your hunting 100 yard shots with a bow are uncalled for. there is waay my much of a time lapse from when the arrow is released to when the arrow reaches the target. even if your animal is completly relaxed and has no idea you are even there what is going to make that animal hold perfectly still until the arrow gets there ? absoloutly nothing so say the arrow is release and the animal takes 2 steps forward to eat that patch of grass in front of him now the arrow is headed no where near it's kill zone.
> 
> you can go back and search all of my post i have been a member here for quite a while and you will see that i do not go around passing judgment on everyone who doesn't conform to my beliefs. for the most part i don't even get involved in bickering threads it's not my style an i like to be more responsible than that.



First, I can't explain whether it was or was not "ethical" for that person to take the shot. I wasn't there and don't know anyhting about him. Based upon the story told, would I have made the shot under those exact circumstances...no I wouldn't have. Of course, no where in any of my posts have I said tha the was "ethical", justified, "reasonable" or anything else.

Of course I have also never said just throwing up arrows in hopes of hitting something is a good idea either. There may be some fudge room on this if we are talking about follow up shots, but we aren't for this discussion. I certainly believe it would be "unethical" for ME to do this based upon my personal beliefs.

No go back and find any of my posts where I have advocated that everyone should shoot long shots...you won't find one. You will find posts saying that I prefer shots to be "closer" but not too close. You will also find posts saying the same things I have said in this one.

Go back and read your post that I quoted...let's see, you called the guy a "jackass", stupid and said he shouldn't even have a license. Now tell me, how is that not passing judgement? Is that really responsible thing to do...publicly? Did that post do anyhting to help hunting? Or did it hurt? What would an anti rather see and hear, hunters quietly agreeing to disagree and present a united front? Or a public argument of calling each other "unethical", stupid, not "true" hunters?

The answer, at least for me is obvious. you want to really tell the guy what you think of him or his shot selection...do it in a p.m. We keep making each other look bad, we lose...it really is that simple.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

What in God's green earth makes you think that by hiding the hunting communities dirty linen under the bed that the anti's suddenly aren't gonna be able to find it anymore? Whether we discuss the issue of irresponcible wounding from too long of shots publicly or privately is gonna make ZERO difference. Sweeping it under the rug is probably worse than publicly airing the issue cause at least if we are talking about it we as a group of hunters can at least say we are working to control the problem of slob hunters. If we deny the problem and do nothing we just look like either liars or idiots.


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

Geez Punch... there you go AGAIN..... agreeing with me... hmmfffff....


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Punch_Master said:


> What in God's green earth makes you think that by hiding the hunting communities dirty linen under the bed that the anti's suddenly aren't gonna be able to find it anymore? Whether we discuss the issue of irresponcible wounding from too long of shots publicly or privately is gonna make ZERO difference. Sweeping it under the rug is probably worse than publicly airing the issue cause at least if we are talking about it we as a group of hunters can at least say we are working to control the problem of slob hunters. If we deny the problem and do nothing we just look like either liars or idiots.


The problem is that you include any hunter who takes a shot at what you consider to be "long" or "unethical" or whatever as a "slob" hunter. i am by no means suggesting we sweep anything under the rug. I am saying that there may not be a problem in certain cases where you want to create one, just because someone acts outside of your beliefs.

Personally, I think the people who don't practice, and by practice I am not limiting it to just shooting a bow, yet decide to go out and shoot at animals at whatever distance, even inside the magic number, are a much worse problem than those who practice and take shots that may be outside your self imposed range. Simply put, it's more than just the issue of distance that makes a "slob" hunter.

As far as airing dirty laundry, it's simple. When specific members of a big group begin to call certain practices within the big picture "bad" or "unethical", it becomes a lot more easy to eliminate that practice. Ask some of the hunters from Colorado and other western states about lion hunting, baiting bears and hound hunting. You will find that other groups of "hunters" who did not engage in this type of hunting, largely because they personally didn't think it ethical, actually worked to end these forms of hunting. So you don't think that any "long" shot is ethical, regardless of circumstance...do you see the division you are creating yet?

So, when you begin to call other hunters unethical, you may unknowingly, though not anymore, be working to end their type of hunting. See, your problem is that you made generalized statements about absolutely what is and is not "ethical". You want to make specific statements about specific things or persons that you actually know about, that is a different matter all together. You want to say "I would never, under any circumstance, take a 95 yard shot" feel free, but when you say: "95 yards is NEVER ethical" for anyone or any circumstance, you become part of the problem. Judge not what you do not know. Remember, you are the one who talked in absolutes.

What I don't understand is that I and other posters on this thread have spelled it out for you, tried to show you the big picture, and pointed out that what you are doing is not constructive, but deconstructive. We've asked specific questions that have been left unanswered and ignored. Take a moment, read and understand what we have said, it does make sense.


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## caseydan34 (Aug 2, 2006)

One time at band camp i shot a sipwad outta my trumpet mouth piece and killed a rabbit at 103 yards, complete pass through!!!! PLEASE thats the biggest bunch ofhorse doo doo I have ever heard!!! But if you did it PLEASE don't do it AGAIN just plain STOOOOOPID!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Free Speech DB (Sep 26, 2003)

How have you spelled out how to keep a wild animal still for one second after you've released an arrow?

Punch is using common sense in attempts to provide things for long range shooters to think about before they fling their projectiles.


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## wvbuckhunter (Mar 5, 2005)

Between 35 and 40 yards here.


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

Wasn't it Phil Philips ( isnt that the guy who's now doing ads for Evotec ) shooting african game above 100 yards on his video " a cowboy in Africa " ?

You're talking about ethics here on one side , and on the other side people like the one above , or also crazy Ted Nugent , are heroes , doing ads for manufacturers ?


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

SneakyTree said:


> Well, my friend, I hope you never fall on hard times.


I have fallen on hard times before, and I may well do so again. My point is, when it gets to the point where my family needs fed, all of my hunting equipment will be SOLD to buy food.

The time required to use that equipment to put food on the table will be used to find a NEW JOB.:wink:


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

You can say anything you want about causing problems for hunting but 95 yards to me is so far out of unethical range for bow equipment for ANYONE under ANY circumstances that it aint even funny. If I was a guide I can't imagine EVER telling even Jeff Hopkins himself to go ahead and take that shot. Nothing you can do or say will EVER convince me that this was ethical behavior nor will I ever say it was. There are ALWAYS other options to a 95 yrd shot including going home emptyhanded.

Do we have worse problems in bowhunting such as people who don't practice enough? Sure we do. How does that make this problem any better?

I guess you don't see the problem YOU are creating by condoning taking 95 yrd shots? By not saying hey bud in the future don't do that because the percentage of success with that long of a shot is REALLY low, you are in essence telling the guy oh yeah go ahead and keep on doing that. Like it's a good idea or something.

Maybe you need to see what a good hit looks like. This is mine from a week ago. This is what happens when you practice alot and stay within your bounds. They dont even get to go 95 yrds when you do a PROPER shot.


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## BOWGUY007 (Jan 19, 2003)

My longest was 38 yards,that was pushing it for me I like 30 yards in.


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## thesource (May 19, 2005)

highdeehoo said:


> Most of the post I see mention wounding an animal at that range. LIKE RANGE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT!



Eek! 


this will be my nomination for ******* post of the year.

Any ***** knows that, given any shooting platform, extended range leads to extended margin of error.

If we use a .300WSM, for example, that shoots minute of angle (1"@100yds), we automatically know that while we can maintain the minute of angle at extended ranges, we cannot maintain the group size. In other words, at 400 yard the group will be 4" - 4X worse - even though the accuracy has been maintained.

So it is with bows.

Even if we assume you can hold your precision (a pretty big assumption), assume that outside effects like wind are irrelevant (an even bigger assumption), and that the critter will stay still (an even BIGGER assumption), someone who holds a 3" group at 50 yards (not as common a one would assume from posts here) would be lucky to stay in 6" at the 96 yards that started this thread even if the archer makes NO mistake.

Range has EVERYTHING to do with it. It is physically impossible to maintain acceptable groups at extended ranges....period.

Those who argue otherwise simply are displaying their ignorance of physical law.


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## HoodIN (Mar 27, 2006)

cantwaittilOct1 said:


> You deserve all of the bashing that you are about to receive.


:wink:


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## KO_32 (Dec 12, 2004)

I think everyone should remain open minded. My best and favotite hunting places have max shooting lanes of 5yds. I still wish I could knock em off at 50yds and more. Last year I missed a big cull at 70 yds I thought he was 50yds. Later in the season I arrowed him at 30yds. I probably enjoyed the 30yd shot better than I would have the 70yd cause he went 20yds.JMO
KO_32


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## dusters (Mar 23, 2006)

I understand that you have to shoot much farther distances, but IMO 96 yards is just way too far of a distance. There are so many variables at that range, it just seems way too risky. Heck, a deer could take 4 steps after you shoot. Then you have the wind. If there is even a slight breeze, your arrow could drastically move. I personally limit myself to 30 yards right now, because I want to get good penatration and get a clean kill.


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## DesertRat (Dec 18, 2002)

*Glad to see this thread....some fodder to consider*

There are many folks that have their reasons for not taking long shot and those that think that your effective range (whether it be 20 or 120 yard) is what you should stay within. I respect everyone's opinion on this one. 

If anyone has shot at an animal within ethical "limit" and hit it bad, consider the following (I'm not trying to change minds, just open them):

If you shoot at an animal, say at 30 yards and it took a step or you jumped on the trigger or you flinched or a gust of wind pulled you off aim or the animal string jumped you....or whatever, you probably would hit it bad and may or may not recover it. If the animal was at 60, 70 or 100 yards you would have missed it clean. If you effective range was 60 yards and you didn't make the best shot, the results would be the same as if your effective range was 30 yards. One could argue that taking a shot at an animal that is alert at 30 yards is worst than taking a shot at a completely relaxed animal at 80 yards. 

IMO, the three variables to consider on whether or not a shot is ethical are:
1) Shooting conditions (the element: wind, range, lighting...)
2) Your effective range (tuning your rig, practice, uphill, downhill...)
3) Animal condition (alert, relaxed, position: broadside, quartering...)

What makes this discussion interesting to me is that these variables are just that, variable. And they are different for each of us and each situation. I'm not saying everyone out there should start flinging arrows at 100 yards, I'm saying that this topic isn't quite as simple as "only shoot within 30 yards or else you are taking an unethical shot..." There are other things that need to be considered.

Here are some shot distances that I know of (OBTW none of the below are mine):

Antelope 106 yards (PSE shooter)
Mule Deer 140 yards (Mathews shooter)
Coues Deer 110 yard (Browning shooter)
Whitetail 90 yards (Pearson shooter)
Elk 118 yards (Coyote shooter)
Bear 70 yards (Mathews shooter)
Javelina 60 yards

-DR


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## alaskan_coondog (Oct 19, 2005)

*Please*

WOW....Some of those shots sound like muzzeloader/rifle shots. I wonder how many more pins I'll need for 140 yards. 

My arrow penetration test showed how little penetration MY set-up has at 90 yards. It made me feel like a good strong rib would be a problem. 140 though hmmmmm....I always thought bow hunting was about getting close. To me gettin close means within 50. But it is different for each person. I shoot comfortably at 80 but just cant imagine shooting at an animal at that distance. It is definately an individual sport so to each their own. Maybe the guy who has to shoot 140 yards is just a REALLY poor stalker. OR it is possible that he has such an ego that a hunt without an animal killed was just not successful in his eyes. ORRRR hes just so good that we should all worship him...:wink: 

This thread has gotten silly...but it makes me understand why I see so many animals wounded up where we caribou hunt. This year I talked to a traditional shooter who was going to get more arrows cause he missed 10 caribou at just over 70 yards. Im sure it was just coincidence that he missed, because hes probably really good.:sad: 

I would never say that a poor shot cant be made closer. But PLEASE dont try to tell me that the farther the better. Your not shooting prairie dogs! Im not a 20 yard junkie and have killed out to 50+ yards....but 80+??? Sorry not for me, or anybody Im willing to share a camp with! :mg: And yeas I mean that.....I wont and dont hunt with people like that. Thats MY CHOICE. I also walk away from these distance braggers cause Ive seen how it probably really was! Oh and yes here in alaska everything is spot and stalk just like out west. I have also hunted out west so dont say I wouldnt understand. These are my choices not yours. I dont mind how you feel. Oh and the analogy of distance and missing. What if you made a great shot and a wind gust blew the arrow into the animals rump at 140 yards......I bet it would go something like this......"Oh well lets go find another!" Please we can do this what ifs all day.


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## wyofoamhunter (Apr 8, 2005)

SneakyTree said:


> I also think it's funny that hunters worry about giving ammo to the anti-hunters. HAH! Get a clue! It's not bad shots that they hate, it's hunting period! They already have their ammo, and it's useless. They are fanatics, and nobody listens to them. Doesn't matter how far we shoot at game. You can limit yourself to 5 yards, and they will still hate hunting. Doesn't matter to them!


The issue isn't about anti-hunters. It is about the fence sitters who realize hunting is probably necessary, that we need to try to avoid turning into those types of anti-hunters. If we don't at least try to maintain some semblance of ethical standards, then we might as well all sell our hunting gear, because if the battle is lost, it won't be because of the the anti-hunters actions, it will be lost by our own hand and deed.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

I didn't read all the posts. I know Fred Bear was mentioned. Anyone ever read Saxton Pope's book about his and Art Young's lion hunting trip to Africa? These guys were taking "ranging" shots at lions before "hitting him in the flank" at 90 yards. Pretty sure that means in the butt. With homemade longbows and clothyard arrows. Repeatedly, on many different animals. At least 25 lions, plus other game. And then writing books about it - bragging about it. Their stated reason for these trips was to test and prove the effectiveness of "modern" archery equipment. We have now canonized them into Saints of the Archery World. Named record keeping/ethics organizations after them. Now you are a sinner if you shoot past 25 yards. Ironic, I think.


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## BHTGdogs (Mar 31, 2005)

I shot a rabbit at 83yds one time. have a couple 50's on *****, farthest on a deer 48yds last year.


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> So are reasonable limits on shot distance with bow and arrow.


Reasonable, is a very reletive term


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Rolo said:


> I can easily imagine where a 95 yard shot may be not only ethical but necessary. Follow up shot for example. Go read Jerry/NJ's post on long range practice and follow up shots.



Ditto, There may be a time and a place.

Jerry/NJ's post is a good one:wink:


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> The unwritten rule is that your distance should be short enough so that when made public knowledge the majority of hunters dont tell you that it was a unethical shot. I can guarantee you that the majority of hunters will say that 95 yards is unethical.



 

I am trying to make sense of this 

So what does the majority think is ethical?


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Rolo said:


> As far as "closer" (whatever that is) ALWAYS being better than "longer" (whatever that is), well, the problem with absolutes is that they are "always" wrong...do you really think shooting straight down at a deer is a better shot than 20 yards broadside?


Ditto:wink: 

Where did you hear that :darkbeer:


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Slippy Field said:


> archery kill on record, Larry Bennington, Evansville, Indiana, 238 yard kill shot on a whitetail doe in 1988.


Holy Smokes!!!!!

Slippy, are you serious?


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## WoodyH28 (Jul 13, 2006)

760 yards Remington .308 Sniper Bow, Iraqi soldier in wood line.....

One shot, one kill....suck it up, drive on.


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## steadyeddie (Apr 27, 2004)

*Jim Ryan*

This is not the runner that set ran the mile in high school under 4:00 min. and held the world record and ran for Kansas University. This is a true sportsman and gentleman, with a super looking wife and also an accomplished hunter in her own field. Jim was at a sports show last year in Springfield, MO. Bass Pro or Outdoor World. He and his wife are now pros working with Redhead out of Bass Pro. I have not relations to them or anything. Mr. Ryan shoots long shots and is accomplished at it in the wind, or calm. He is also fearless when stalking brown bears ( the big ones that like to eat you with his berries, kind of like cereal with berries ). He is also an excellent teacher that is always ready to help out archer's. So this man can shoot ,and if you practice and know how to setup a bow and have it tuned then you to can do this. But not everyone can do this. Do not shoot any futher than you can his consistantly 10 out of 10 at any distance. Steady


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## larrydenise6573 (Jul 19, 2006)

I notice that he never came back to the thread to defend his actions... I suppose that I wouldn't either. Just for the record my longest that I have ever HAD to make was about 21 yards broadside open mature hard woods. 95% of my shots have been between 10 and 15 yards. Isn't that the difference bewtween an archer and a bow hunter? How far you can get from your target and how close you can get to the deer...


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Techy said:


> Ditto, There may be a time and a place.


Like when? Name me one example when it would be the best thing to do to shoot 95 yrds at a animal.


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> Like when? Name me one example when it would be the best thing to do to shoot 95 yrds at a animal.


Like when you see a severely wounded animal at that distance. Why not ease its passing. Maybe you can see its intestines draging on the ground, do you just let it go by? What if you can't get closer?


Keep in mind I said that there may be a time and a place. That may be just wounded game, but that is still a time and a place. I am not condoning his actions. I would not suggest that anyone just go around winging arrows at this distance. I am just pointing out certain exceptions, since most seem to dwell in absolutes.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Techy said:


> Like when you see a severely wounded animal at that distance. Why not ease its passing. Maybe you can see its intestines draging on the ground, do you just let it go by? What if you can't get closer?


Wrong, I've already covered this scenario in this thread. If it is wounded and it is up and moving you have little chance of hitting at 95 yrds in the first place. Flinging another arrow at it will only make it run that much further and faster and make your tracking job harder. You stay on it's track until you either find it dead or within a more reasonable distance to finish it off. If it is bedded you let it alone and it will bleed out right where it lays. If you fling a arrow at while it is bedded and you either miss or do another poor hit it will just jump up and run making your tracking job that much harder. That is the quickest humanist way to finish off a wounded animal that you see at 95 yrds. Not keep flinging arrows at it from stupid distances and hope and pray that you get lucky.

The truth is there is NEVER a time when a 95 yrd shot is the best thing to do.


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> Wrong, I've already covered this scenario in this thread. If it is wounded and it is up and moving you have little chance of hitting at 95 yrds in the first place. Flinging another arrow at it will only make it run that much further and faster and make your tracking job harder. You stay on it's track until you either find it dead or within a more reasonable distance to finish it off. If it is bedded you let it alone and it will bleed out right where it lays. If you fling a arrow at while it is bedded and you either miss or do another poor hit it will just jump up and run making your tracking job that much harder. That is the quickest humanist way to finish off a wounded animal that you see at 95 yrds. Not keep flinging arrows at it from stupid distances and hope and pray that you get lucky.


"Your way" may not be the quickest or more humane. Say the deer is just walking or bedded (as long as it isn't running or just stopped from running) and wounded the endorphine levels are decreasing and the animals pain level is increasing (Humane?). And how do you know how long the wounded animal will go on living?

As far as me having a "little chance of hitting it in the first place" well, that is debateable. I wouldn't say "little chance." It depends on the animal.

Say it is a wounded moose. I could put an arrow in the kill zone almost every time on a moose at that distance. And I only say almost due to the possibility of high winds or mechanical failure.

And yes, I would still have the KE to get the job done at that distance.


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> The truth is there is NEVER a time when a 95 yrd shot is the best thing to do.


There you go with those absolutes again:wink:


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Techy said:


> "Your way" may not be the quickest or more humane. Say the deer is just walking or bedded (as long as it isn't running or just stopped from running) and wounded the endorphine levels are decreasing and the animals pain level is increasing (Humane?). And how do you know how long the wounded animal will go on living?
> 
> As far as me having a "little chance of hitting it in the first place" well, that is debateable. I wouldn't say "little chance"


You got two chances at a moving animal at 95 yrds. Slim and none. If you or anyone else can shoot that good consistinantly I'd suggest that you save up your pennies for airfare over the winter and make every ASA & IBO shoot you can cause you should win every last one of them hands down. Somehow I doubt that that will be happening any time soon.
I don't know how long it's going to live but I do know that if I keep scaring it and increasing it's adrenialine levels by flinging arrows at it from long distance it will live alot longer and suffer that much more.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

> Say it is a wounded moose. I could put an arrow in the kill zone almost every time on a moose at that distance. And I only say almost due to the possibility of high winds or mechanical failure


You don't even know at that distance what the animal is going to do from the time you release till the time the arrow gets there. If it's moving it could change direction or stop or speed up. If its bedded you should just let it bleed out. Air currents are another unknown. All you would be trying for is a lucky hit when you should going for a sure thing. I just don't understand why you can't see what is SO obvious.


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## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

skynight said:


> I didn't read all the posts. I know Fred Bear was mentioned. Anyone ever read Saxton Pope's book about his and Art Young's lion hunting trip to Africa? These guys were taking "ranging" shots at lions before "hitting him in the flank" at 90 yards. Pretty sure that means in the butt. With homemade longbows and clothyard arrows. Repeatedly, on many different animals. At least 25 lions, plus other game. And then writing books about it - bragging about it. Their stated reason for these trips was to test and prove the effectiveness of "modern" archery equipment. We have now canonized them into Saints of the Archery World. Named record keeping/ethics organizations after them. Now you are a sinner if you shoot past 25 yards. Ironic, I think.


Ironic yes, but times are different know and attitudes have changed for good or bad.

reed


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## huntnmuleys (Jan 7, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> You don't even know at that distance what the animal is going to do from the time you release till the time the arrow gets there. If it's moving it could change direction or stop or speed up. If its bedded you should just let it bleed out. Air currents are another unknown. All you would be trying for is a lucky hit when you should going for a sure thing. I just don't understand why you can't see what is SO obvious.



your the one who cant see what is SO obvious here....

95 yards, wounded animal. you say its more humane to let it sit there and die slowly than to try to get another arrow into it. 
where in the hell is the logic in that.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

huntnmuleys said:


> your the one who cant see what is SO obvious here....
> 
> 95 yards, wounded animal. you say its more humane to let it sit there and die slowly than to try to get another arrow into it.
> where in the hell is the logic in that.


I suppose by your logic you start tracking a animal you shot immediately without waiting a half hour for it to die or bed down first? I mean by your reasoning wouldn't that be the humane thing to do? So you would keep pushing the wounded animal by shooting at it at 95 yrds? Where is the logic in that?


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

You guys can do what you want I guess but I'm just glad I don't have to hunt with ya. Only responcible hunters in any camp I've been at.



And now I am done with this thread for good.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Techy & Muley,

My advice, give up kicking the horse, you lead it to water, but if it doesn't want to drink, you can't make it...I tried too. The reality is that with all the variables Punch Master wants to implicate...tha animal moving, wind, air currents, yada, yada, yada...variables that we have recognized, he will always fail to recognize the variable that taking the 95 yard shot may be the only way to recover the animal because a host of other variables. He will recognize every contingency possible, except the contingency that if this shot is not taken, the animal will be lost. Obvious I know...to some.

What perhaps bothers me the most about Punchy's argument, is that he does not appear to recognize the experience, skill level, different hunting styles, etc. of those he is arguing with. As near as I can tell, his first archery deer kill was two years ago...don't know his experience before that. My first archery deer kill was 22 years ago, and since that time there have been several more critters downed all over the world...don't really feel it necessary to post pics of what a good shot looks like, since I know, and have known for quite some time. I guess my experiences and knowledge, as well as yours means nothing...


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## Sagittarius62 (Feb 6, 2004)

96 yds=288ft
plugging in a bow speed of say, 250ft/sec
travel time from bow to target 1.15 second(not allowing for speed loss during flight, or wind speed or direction. Now everybody count, 1001 plus a short pause. 
How far could the animal move in that time period? 
speed of sound in air 1268ft/sec
time for bow sound to reach target .227 sec
time for arrow to reach target 1.15 sec
time for animal to react to sound .923 sec
Again say 1001. 
How far can animal move in this time?
Not for me thanks.


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## manboy (Mar 24, 2005)

*wow JOE did you get in deep this time!!!*

well just thought i would get on archerytalk for a little and .....wow. :mg: 
i guess i should have told JOE not to put his shot distance on here. if he would have just posted his pic. and his story of the stalk and the shot without the range....high 5's everywhere. not now!
for all the eastern tree hungin' never been out WEST huntin fools on here, here is something for you to think of.
1. joe is a pro-shop owner
2. joe is a taxidermist
3. joe is a profesional fisherman.
some kills he has this fall, cow elk in colorado distance? i never asked.
muley buck in colorado, 82 yards
antelope in wyoming 96 yards

ONE LAST THING, ALL OF YOU THAT THINKS 96 YARDS IS JUST TO FAR, AND WHAT IF THE ANIMAL MOVES? WELL I SAY STEP UP TO THE PLATE, STAND OUT THERE AT 96 YARDS SEE IF YOU ARE CONFIDENT THAT HE WILL MISS!
I CAN TELL YOU ONE THING YOU WON'T CATCH ME OUT THERE!


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## deerhunter3241 (Jun 7, 2004)

Did he say 96 yds...Holy Crap...I have shot very few deer with my rifle that were any further than that...!


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## Devin_BowTech (Apr 19, 2006)

hmm i think if someone had a problem with this thread it would be best to not post and ignore the non-sense. 

Have a good one.


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## SilentSniper (Sep 1, 2005)

manboy said:


> for all the eastern tree hungin' never been out WEST huntin fools on here, here is something for you to think of.
> :



This statement will get you nowhere on this forum. Your buddy can shoot deer, bear, muskrats, nessy, bigfoot, and the goatsucker at 1000 yards for all I care. Just don't post it on here and expect everyone to do chest bumps with him. Him owning a proshop means nothing when it comes to being ethical and moral while hunting. Stay out west....us tree hunging eastern fools do not want 100 yard shoots around us anyway.


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## don s (Mar 7, 2003)

the question is "what is the longest confirmed kill shot". don't kill the messenger for my reply. have any of you read "hunting the hard way". howard hill shot and killed an antelope running at full speed from 70 yards, also, from a distance of 185 yards after three shots the first high, the second low the third connected on an elk and killed it. hill and a man named fred woodley each shot one arrow and connected on a pair of mallard ducks swimming 160 yards away. there are many more unbelievable shots. however, all were witnessed. keep in mind this was way back before people said that the shots are too far and you risk wounding game. these guys shot and killed eagles out of the air with archery equipment. hell he even designed and shot a special bow and arrow under water and shot a damn shark right between the eyes with it. while in africa he shot and killed a full grown rogue elephant. he is credited with pulling the heaviest bow at 172# the book is a great read. howard hill is one of the reasons we bowhunt today. is it possible today? hell yes, but, which one of you is going to do it. i think everyone here is a hell of a lot more responsible. these days you have to be. by the way for what it's worth howard made his own equipment. everybody did back then. i believe his bow pulled about 80#. like i said,don't kill the messenger.
don


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## peace (May 25, 2006)

*Howard Hill*



sean said:


> Howard hill shot at running animals at those distances and more and I have the tembo video to prove it ..


Before Compound Bows Howard Hill did 100yd plus hunting each and every day. Many of his associates did this also on a regular basis. 
I am astounded at the lack of knowledge on this subject on this forum.
If you love something take the time to be a student of it, you might be surprised at what you are capable of. 
But as with most things people are driven by the herd instinct. If everyone says this is the maximum distance then that is all I can do. 
If this broadhead is the one that everybody swears by then that is the one I must have. 
If these are the sneakers everyone says are the greatest than these are the ones I must have.

Expand your mind...the bow and arrow are a very capable weapon in the right hand with the right mind.


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## SilentSniper (Sep 1, 2005)

peace said:


> Before Compound Bows Howard Hill did 100yd plus hunting each and every day. Many of his associates did this also on a regular basis.
> I am astounded at the lack of knowledge on this subject on this forum.
> If you love something take the time to be a student of it, you might be surprised at what you are capable of.
> But as with most things people are driven by the herd instinct. If everyone says this is the maximum distance then that is all I can do.
> ...



There is nothing wrong with shooting at a target at 80-90 yards. As long as it is an archery target not a live animal. Tell me that this hunter can make an ethical shot from these distances on a consitant basis. You can set a target up at 20 yards and 80 yards. Sure you will be able to hit the vitals on the 80 yard target, but how many of your shots are going to hit no vital areas also. I would think a lot more than the 20 yard target. There are many archers on this site that think that these long distance shots are not appropiate for an experienced ethical hunter. It has nothing to do with the "herd" factor. You can read all the books that you like and teach yourself all the archery facts and history that you want, but it doesn't make these long distance shots the best most appropiate shot on wild game.


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## tclow (Feb 22, 2006)

Do you think this guy might have started this thread just to start trouble.It's been 2 day going now and he hasn't replied to anyone.Sounds like a trouble make to me.


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## mojoe (Nov 12, 2005)

*two lies on this one.*

Either one's a little kid or they both have memories of being a little kid while hunting. For one thing, you would have to rank as one of the top shooters in the world to make that shot twice in a lifetime let alone 2 days. And as far as seeing your dad shoot pass throughs as 80 yds with a 40 lb recurve, I think he was putting wild turkey in your kool aid. WHy lie on here where you are more admired for the truth? Morons.


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## don s (Mar 7, 2003)

when i replied about howard hill, i was replying only about the original question. which was the longest confirmed kill.


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Punch_Master said:


> You guys can do what you want I guess but I'm just glad I don't have to hunt with ya. Only responcible hunters in any camp I've been at.
> 
> 
> 
> And now I am done with this thread for good.


Thanks for incinuating that I am an irresponsible hunter; however, I am inclined to believe that the reverse is true. :smile:


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

Rolo said:


> Techy & Muley,
> 
> My advice, give up kicking the horse, you lead it to water, but if it doesn't want to drink, you can't make it...I tried too. The reality is that with all the variables Punch Master wants to implicate...tha animal moving, wind, air currents, yada, yada, yada...variables that we have recognized, he will always fail to recognize the variable that taking the 95 yard shot may be the only way to recover the animal because a host of other variables. He will recognize every contingency possible, except the contingency that if this shot is not taken, the animal will be lost. Obvious I know...to some.
> 
> What perhaps bothers me the most about Punchy's argument, is that he does not appear to recognize the experience, skill level, different hunting styles, etc. of those he is arguing with. As near as I can tell, his first archery deer kill was two years ago...don't know his experience before that. My first archery deer kill was 22 years ago, and since that time there have been several more critters downed all over the world...don't really feel it necessary to post pics of what a good shot looks like, since I know, and have known for quite some time. I guess my experiences and knowledge, as well as yours means nothing...


Yeah, I give up as well.

Till next time Rolo. :darkbeer:


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## manboy (Mar 24, 2005)

*isn't that about right*

as always on here, there is alot of you that can run you mouths. but not one of you will stand up and go out to 96 yards and see how good of a shot he is!
and as far as young...well inless a man with a little gray is young, you must be half dead! sorry JOE, didn't mean to give your age away. 
and being a pro-shop owner is to show his ability to shoot, not ethics! and who on here is the "hunting god" to say what is ethical?
so if i say only shots with a .30 cal for rifle is ethical....then that is how it is! and everyone else is wrong. doesn't something seem off here?
and as far as responding, well he doesn't have the time to ppunch the keypad 
as much as you all! check his post amount to the time he has been a member. get a clue people. 
and huntnmuleys .....shame on you shooting that poor little spotted horned fawn out from his momma! and why on earth would you shoot 60 yards? i mean it is just so unethical, now if you where shooting a bow at ? lets say 315fps, instead of my 180fps. recurve. then i could see it. you arrow would reach 60 yards before mine reaches 25 yards. so you are now sined the "hunting gods" prepare to get the shovel out!
IT IS GETTING DEEP!ukey:


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## SilentSniper (Sep 1, 2005)

and being a pro-shop owner is to show his ability to shoot said:


> Could not have said it better myself. The more you try to defend yourself and him the deeper it gets.


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## preyquester (Feb 3, 2004)

if you cant shoot "dont"this guy can shoot ,good shooting,this is hunting,shoot when you can,if you can make the shot "shoot" hell in oh farmers shoot 15-20 does, Gut shot so they dont stay in the field to die & just let them rot. .22 in the gut & nobody wants to here about it....


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## Glock17 (Dec 23, 2004)

Longest kill shot with a bow....42 yards in an open soybean field on a buck first day of the 03 PA archery season. 

96 yards on a pronghorn, just plain stupid, how do you "pick a spot" at 96 yards, what a tool....and I dont care who he shoots for.


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## manboy (Mar 24, 2005)

*wow*

i just didn't believe that there is that many narrow minded people out there. i am sure a lot of you would say that, 15 years ago "they will never build a bow that can shoot 300fps. and look at how wrong you all were! as i stated before a 180fps arrow at 25 yards will take longer to get there than a 315 fps arrow at 60 yards. 
so all of you tree-hungers, stay in the east and in your trees. because we don't need anymore of you moving west. and filling up our huntn areas.
some of you would fill out of place, i can see for 3 miles in the prarrie and not one tree. now what would you do?


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## ck92 (Jul 24, 2005)

manboy said:


> i just didn't believe that there is that many narrow minded people out there. i am sure a lot of you would say that, 15 years ago "they will never build a bow that can shoot 300fps. and look at how wrong you all were! as i stated before a 180fps arrow at 25 yards will take longer to get there than a 315 fps arrow at 60 yards. ''
> Just out of curiousity, how did you come up with the math to figure that out?


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## teambringit1 (Oct 28, 2005)

what is a tree hunger? :zip:


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## radcon (Dec 18, 2005)

*Stupid*

The biggest dear I have ever seen was standing 42 yards away from me and I refused to take a shot. Letting a deer live another year and growing bigger is better then wounding it. I thought hunters were to respect wildlife. Taking that kind of shot is just plain stupid. The longes shot I have taken with a bow is 23 yards. I refuse to shoot past 35 just to many things to go wrong and I want to find my trophy not chase it.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

manboy said:


> i just didn't believe that there is that many narrow minded people out there. i am sure a lot of you would say that, 15 years ago "they will never build a bow that can shoot 300fps. and look at how wrong you all were! as i stated before a 180fps arrow at 25 yards will take longer to get there than a 315 fps arrow at 60 yards.
> so all of you tree-hungers, stay in the east and in your trees. because we don't need anymore of you moving west. and filling up our huntn areas.
> some of you would fill out of place, i can see for 3 miles in the prarrie and not one tree. now what would you do?


I cant believe that there is that many narrow minded people on here that like to craw around on their hands and knees looking for blood.

96 yds, If you condone this type of shooting then you have either just got into bowhunting or you suffer from common sense deficiency syndrome.


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## 1wayin (Mar 26, 2006)

I don't agree with the shot for anyone at anything other than a target. But if you want to take it that is your god given right as a license holder(notice I didn't say hunter). But for the love of god don't come on a public forum and brag about it. Lord knows in my younger days I took shots I wouldn't dream of taking now. But there is no way I would brag about making them because they were just plain stupid. I totally disagree with the "out west" mind set that keeps coming into the picture. 96 yards in Kentucky is still 96 yards in Colorado or Wyoming or Idaho and its still a crazy shot............


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## meanv2 (Jan 28, 2004)

I have a cow that can jump over my 30' tall barn.

If you don't believe me I'll show you a picture of the barn


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## IXOYE143 (Mar 17, 2006)

*Nice shot*

The guy didn't ask what you thought about his shot, he asked about what the longest recorded kill has been. 

You southern whitetail treestand hunters with all your respecting the animal crap gets old. To you it is respectful to shoot an animal close, to some distance doesn't determine respect. Did you write the animal respect ethics handbook? We all have our different ways of doing things. If you think this guy should switch to muzzleloading because he shoots long distance than I think you should hunt with a spear. 

By the way, I know of a couple people that have killed deer over 80 yards and I killed one at 52 yards, but I have no idea of what the longest is and I am interested in finding out as well. I have pins up to 90 yards and I will take the shot up to that if I range the animal, draw my bow and feel good about the shot.


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## 1wayin (Mar 26, 2006)

> If you think this guy should switch to muzzleloading because he shoots long distance than I think you should hunt with a spear.


I do hunt with a spear..


> You southern whitetail treestand hunters with all your respecting the animal crap gets old. To you it is respectful to shoot an animal close, to some distance doesn't determine respect. Did you write the animal respect ethics handbook?


No actually I typed it....


Good shot on the 52 yard deer....


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## Hotyman (Feb 25, 2006)

*61 yards*

61 yards on a bedded caribou on August 3rd 2003. he was bedded, looking away, however I couldnt get any closer without spooking him. I ranged him several times. Seemed farther but I trusted the bushnell and put my 60 yd pin about a inch high. drew, focused, released. the animal never got up. 
Made a 42 yard shot on a 9 point buck in 1989. It was my first day bowhunting, first deer with the bow. He was standing broadside in a soybean field. The caribou is pictured below, they didn't have digital camera's when i was 15. 

**** To some of the comments posted below, to each is their own, if someone wants to take a shot at a animal at 1 hundred yards it's not our place to judge them. No one on here needs to be the police or the ethics god. Before moving to Alaska I had never intended on shooting at an animal past 40 yards. But with people and friends and other hunters saying I better be prepared for a longer shot..(caribou)... I practiced, practiced, practiced. everytime I walk down my halway and see him hanging there on the wall I am glad I took their advice.


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## oldbhtrnewequip (Dec 30, 2005)

Rolo said:


> ...so what are the rules again?
> 
> Speeding, by the way is a bad example. First it is a public safety concern, that endangers other persons. Second it is a legislatively enacted law, which is much different than a rule. So do you propose allowing the legislature to write all the rules of hunting?
> 
> Interesting that you say "we police ourselves so that we don't have to have others doing it for us." ...


Rolo,

That's absolutely the case in Howard County Maryland. Shot distances are regulated on publicly managed hunts for both shotgun and bow. A concern is wounding and the effects on the 'neighbors' that have a big say in whether we hunt certain spots or not. There are several concerns. The program is managed to be squeaky clean, and it has been successfully run, for about 7 years now.

We HAVE to cooperate if we want public land available to hunt. That's not a bad thing. Those that choose to do differently get to do so...once....and then they get to do whatever they want on their own property or leases. They won't be hunting managed hunts again...in Maryland...not just Howard County.

If we all 'own' the animals, then we all own the "rules" by which they are either left alone or harvested. All that said...no doubt we get closer shots than folks out west. I'm sure Colorado's rules would/should be different. 
I'd bet their shooter qualification rules would have to be more stringent than those imposed by howard county as well.


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## sean (May 31, 2003)

buying a liscense and tag are ethics enough


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## medved (Nov 1, 2005)

strange said:


> i made a long shot this week on an antelope the shoot was 96 yard and it was not a fluke i made the shoot again the same day on a target 3" right of center i shoot gold tip and 75 muzzy and had a pass trought heart shoot never shot that for before but we do shot 80s consetant and i have two witneses to the shoot joe


I wouldn't try a shot at that distance at a whitetail. Couple of times I've had one of my heavy bows at the 100 yard rifle range at the Isaak-Walton league center I belong to trying to get hundred yard sights set and guys look at me like



> "Wow, that dude's been smokin way too much REEFER to think he's gonna hit anything with a bow at that sort of distance....."


and then they're shocked when I actually do put arrows into a sort of a soccer ball sized target area, which really isn't that hard to do with a modern bow. But some part of a soccer ball is about the best I could manage from that distance and that's not good enough to shoot whitetails.


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## manboy (Mar 24, 2005)

*now what?*

huntnmuleys and i are going bowfishing with strange, so is there any distance we should not shot? we don't want to make anyone mad. thanks


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## elkkiller#4 (Mar 19, 2007)

people will never think its okay to shoot at animals out to 100 yards with a bow but the same people shoot 900+ with their rifle and think its okay, I have shot animals past 100 before and will again, if you don't feel comfortable then you should not take the shot but you can not tell someone else how far they can shoot thats just wrong.


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## twisted1600 (Feb 23, 2007)

*What?*

100 yds with a bow?!!!!!!!
Think I'll sit back and watch how this one pans out!!!!:zip:


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## Stanley (Jan 18, 2005)

I’m waiting until the last post to post my longest kill shot (got to see what the competition does first). Better go to the tavern and see what the longest shot is there too.:wink:


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## razerbax (Jan 5, 2007)

sean said:


> buying a liscense and tag are ethics enough


I second that!


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## cynic (Jan 25, 2006)

Stanley said:


> I’m waiting until the last post to post my longest kill shot (got to see what the competition does first). Better go to the tavern and see what the *longest shot is there* too.:wink:


A beer pitcher full of tequila


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## cynic (Jan 25, 2006)

sean said:


> buying a liscense and tag are ethics enough


You forgot! follow all applicable games laws for the area in which you are hunting If you don't do that we will not let you in the big tent


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## cynic (Jan 25, 2006)

Guys, Guys ya'll are missing out 96yds ain't nothin' heres another one for the long shot nay sayers...ttp://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=508628


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## WaterboyUT (Mar 11, 2006)

Get closer or get a gun!


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## cynic (Jan 25, 2006)

WaterboyUT said:


> Get closer or get a gun!


Definition of close please! Why not take advantage of the latest technology? Why limit your shot to the same as yesteryear.. I thought that was the purpose of upgrading..


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

Callous disregard for the humane dispatch of a big game animal. That should be in the regs.


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## seabeejared (Apr 30, 2007)

Thank you. Again I grew up in ND and I don't anyone who has ever shot outside of 50 yards. I practice at 60 and I can pop all my arrows in the vitals but I won't lie I don't feel comfortable shooting at any game over 45. Like a whole bunch of people have already there are to many variables that can ruin a day. If he really did do it super, but a 96 yard shot, doesn't that kind of take away from the whole bowhunting experience?


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## razerbax (Jan 5, 2007)

posco1 said:


> Callous disregard for the humane dispatch of a big game animal. That should be in the regs.


Maybe you should consider joining PETA. Not to just pick on you, but I am shocked at the "holier than thou" attitude on this board. Who is anybody here to think they should tell another how to hunt! Have any of you ever seen a baby deer slaughtered by a coyote or a pack of wild dogs? I have and it ain't pretty.They are ANIMALS that GOD has given us dominion over. They are ANIMALS, not humans! Bad shots can happen from 20-30 just as well.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

So. I see the ethics police ran this guy right off of ArcheryTalk.com.


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

razerbax said:


> Maybe you should consider joining PETA. Not to just pick on you, but I am shocked at the "holier than thou" attitude on this board. Who is anybody here to think they should tell another how to hunt! Have any of you ever seen a baby deer slaughtered by a coyote or a pack of wild dogs? I have and it ain't pretty.They are ANIMALS that GOD has given us dominion over. They are ANIMALS, not humans! Bad shots can happen from 20-30 just as well.


Don't feel picked on but thanks for that. Sure not a PETA guy but that kind of shot...or the mention of one makes me wince. Not being holier than thou at all and I know there's no arbiter, besides maybe common sense to dictate shooting. To me they look like slob hunters. Why we hunt with bows is to get close...not target practice.


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## slider1 (Dec 16, 2003)

Thats Pathetic!!!


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## cynic (Jan 25, 2006)

posco1 said:


> Why we hunt with bows is to get close...not target practice.


Is that really why WE hunt is to get closer.. I bet you will find just as many hunters that use a bow to extend the season.. I know that is the reason I started years ago.. I bet you will find that many use a bow only for bow season then rifle/gun hunt... In the beginning shotguns/ML were considered short range weapons.. Technology has now stretched what was a 30-50yd weapon to well close to 200yds.. Why can't one choose to extend the ranges with a bow?


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

cynic said:


> Is that really why WE hunt is to get closer.. I bet you will find just as many hunters that use a bow to extend the season.. I know that is the reason I started years ago.. I bet you will find that many use a bow only for bow season then rifle/gun hunt... In the beginning shotguns/ML were considered short range weapons.. Technology has now stretched what was a 30-50yd weapon to well close to 200yds.. Why can't one choose to extend the ranges with a bow?



I hunt to.....
1. Enjoy the outdoors, and all it has to offer me.
2. Kill animals

BTW, het Cynic, get with the times buddy.......muzzleloaders are good for 300 yards now!:wink::darkbeer:


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## cynic (Jan 25, 2006)

Big Country said:


> I hunt to.....
> 1. Enjoy the outdoors, and all it has to offer me.
> 2. Kill animals
> 
> BTW, het Cynic, get with the times buddy.......muzzleloaders are good for 300 yards now!:wink::darkbeer:


I wasn't going to mention my smokeless Savage on a bowhunting site..


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## razerbax (Jan 5, 2007)

posco1 said:


> Don't feel picked on but thanks for that. Sure not a PETA guy but that kind of shot...or the mention of one makes me wince. Not being holier than thou at all and I know there's no arbiter, besides maybe common sense to dictate shooting. To me they look like slob hunters. Why we hunt with bows is to get close...not target practice.


"We" hunt with a bow for many different reasons and for all that may not be to "get close". I just think there is enough "political correctness", if I may use this term, in every other phase in my life and I have dreaded the day it came into hunting. Guess it is here.:mg:
However, I will continue to hunt the way I please and as long as I am within the law, I could not care less what someone else thinks! I'm done:zip: Maybe:wink:


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## mathews xt 600 (Jan 5, 2007)

36 yards, double lung and he went 35 yards and crashed. That was late season and no leaves(clear shot).


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## Skippy Archer (Apr 12, 2006)

I hunted with a guy last year that shot a mule deer at 87 yrds., complete pass through.

He practiced out to 100 yards. 

He shot Terminator Hunter Selects that are around 11 gpi.

He shot an Allegiance at 70#'s.

He had the skills, the practice, and the equipment to get the job done.

I wouldn't shoot an animal that far, I don't have the skills, or the practice. If I did have the skills and the practice? Who knows.

There are people out there who can, and do shoot animals at that distance. If you are not one of these people, it does not mean that you are right and they are wrong.

I also hunted with a guy who shot a deer at 20 yards..........square in the neck!

Was the shot too far for him? Yes. Why? because he lacked the skills and the practice. 

I shot my deer last year at 50 yards. He walked two steps and died. 

I posted it and got flamed. I don't care.

I'll do it again this year if the situation presents itself.

When I post it, the ethics police can call me foolish and irresponsible all they want. I'll sit back with my grilled backstraps, read your comments and laugh.


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

You guys are right...a deer can be just as effectively gut shot at twenty yards as a hundred. Fire away, nail em in the rear when the wind drifts.

Cynic, I do it for those reasons too. Good point.


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

Double tapped.


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## bsnelling1 (Jul 16, 2006)

*How?*

Just curious, What is the arrow drop at a hundred yards on an average modern hunting bow with i.b.o. specs at say 300 fps.? I don't practice at more than 50 yds., arrows are too expensive. Sounds like some of you guys should sign up for sniper school, we could use you in Iraq. Just think a completely silent asassin working for Uncle Sam!! Who needs a 50 cal. any way.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

bsnelling1 said:


> Just curious, What is the arrow drop at a hundred yards on an average modern hunting bow with i.b.o. specs at say 300 fps.? I don't practice at more than 50 yds., arrows are too expensive. Sounds like some of you guys should sign up for sniper school, we could use you in Iraq. Just think a completely silent asassin working for Uncle Sam!! Who needs a 50 cal. any way.


Olympic and FITA shooters shoot 90 meters (99 yards) all the time. The good shooters seldom miss the yellow, which is about 8" in diameter...about the size of a small pie plate. The shot claimed is very do-able. That isn't to say it was real, but rather that a highly experienced shooter could do it easily.


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## Full metal jack (Oct 29, 2006)

He forgot to say that it was a clean kill on a foam target:mg:. I have heard of folks claiming kill shots at those and further distances all I can say is great shooting. Antelope are very skidish animals and open country you really have to work your stalking skills and yardage judgement. I'm not condoning a shot like this and I for one would only be shooting foam at those distances. As for actual hunting that is why I started hunting with a bow was for the challenge of the hunt(spot and stalk).:wink:


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## cynic (Jan 25, 2006)

bsnelling1 said:


> Just curious, What is the arrow drop at a hundred yards on an average modern hunting bow with i.b.o. specs at say 300 fps.?


http://home.att.net/~sajackson/ballistics.html
Drops 234" speed 265fps Ke 58lbs Momentum .440695 these are the figures for 100yds on a 375gr arrrow
but on a 400gr arrow
Drops 229" Speed 267 Ke 63lbs momentum.474103 more than enough to take the animal


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## deadquiet (Jan 25, 2005)

razerbax said:


> Maybe you should consider joining PETA. Not to just pick on you, but I am shocked at the "holier than thou" attitude on this board. Who is anybody here to think they should tell another how to hunt! Have any of you ever seen a baby deer slaughtered by a coyote or a pack of wild dogs? I have and it ain't pretty.They are ANIMALS that GOD has given us dominion over. They are ANIMALS, not humans! Bad shots can happen from 20-30 just as well.


I agree with everything you said but the first statement. It makes you sounds as if there is no compassion for the animals and it's ok to just chunk arrows at em' at any given distance with no remorse because we are on top of the food chain and that's just "nature" at work. And, if that bothers you then you should join PETA? What about us that respect the animals we hunt and do so with self discipline and hard work (or scouting) and our willing to go home empty handed before we take a high risk shot and wound an animal. Sure we wound some no matter how hard we try but there is a limit to the risk you should take and when the lack of respect falls to the level that it doesn't matter...well that’s not someone I would want in my hunting camp. But, I'm sure some PETA loving ethic's freak like me would not be welcome in theirs either. I guess that's why people hunt with people that have the same respect and principles as they do because after all it is a free country....but IMO its these callus attitudes that gives us as hunters the blood thirsty gotta’ kill something image that PETA and Hollywood love to portray to the people on the fence and they are the ones we "want" on our side because these people are free thinkers and large in numbers and can be educated unlike the closed minded extremists.


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## cynic (Jan 25, 2006)

I think what it boils down to is that many don't have the confidence in themself or their equipment to take the shot and make the shot. So in order to overcome there personal inferiority issues they knock the guy that did it successfully.. Why bash the hunter taking a long shot because the deer moved, then say it was an easy 20yd shot but the deer ducked and it hit a little far back. My gosh aren't you guys ever going to learn that stuff happens beyond control, Is a 20yd shot a higher percentage shot if the bow is noisy? Should every hunter be required to buy a new bow that is really quiet if hunting close quarters, don't want them to jump the string?


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## huntfish25 (May 29, 2004)

deadquiet said:


> I agree with everything you said but the first statement. It makes you sounds as if there is no compassion for the animals and it's ok to just chunk arrows at em' at any given distance with no remorse because we are on top of the food chain and that's just "nature" at work. And, if that bothers you then you should join PETA? What about us that respect the animals we hunt and do so with self discipline and hard work (or scouting) and our willing to go home empty handed before we take a high risk shot and wound an animal. Sure we wound some no matter how hard we try but there is a limit to the risk you should take and when the lack of respect falls to the level that it doesn't matter...well that’s not someone I would want in my hunting camp. But, I'm sure some PETA loving ethic's freak like me would not be welcome in theirs either. I guess that's why people hunt with people that have the same respect and principles as they do because after all it is a free country....but IMO its these callus attitudes that gives us as hunters the blood thirsty gotta’ kill something image that PETA and Hollywood love to portray to the people on the fence and they are the ones we "want" on our side because these people are free thinkers and large in numbers and can be educated unlike the closed minded extremists.


it not chucking arrows at animals. if that the case that what all of us do because we all pratice at deffert yards and when we shoot at a animals we are aming. i dont think 50yard + shot is for every one but if you can shoot well why not? there is no sure shots. i have missed at 20 yards and i know people that mised closer then that. i kill a nice buck at 35yards and i know people never will take that shot. i will i shoot at a deer at 100 yards with my bow no but 70yards yes why i know i can kill it. i will not shoot over 100 yards with my rifle and i know guys that took deer over 300 yards. watch guys on tv shoot over 900yards. i wish i could do that. 

fred bear and howard hill have shoot animals with a recurved at 60 yards like we shoot deer at 20 yards. they will be laugh at us over this arguement. peta dont care if we kill them at 10 yards or 1000 yards, i dont care what peta thinks or any other AR nut job that there problem. the problem is us fight over stupid stuff cross bow, canned hunting, muzzle loader, and how far to kill a deer. this what peta look at us fighting among our self over stupid stuff and used it when they fight us. just like they used what was said in the assult weapons band.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2007)

An owner/CEO of a major archery company (bow manufactor) claims he's made a lot of long distance shots.....

Not saying names........ but know for sure that he makes that claim....


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## No.1 Hoyt (Mar 11, 2007)

i would never take that long of a shot ever. even though im a kid and dont know much i wouldnt do it. if i was hunting out west i would limit my range to 60-70 yards at the most if your a good archer but a 96 yard shot


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## No.1 Hoyt (Mar 11, 2007)

forgot to finish.

but a 96 yard shot:hail:

i wouldnt do it again


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## TNstalker (Sep 15, 2006)

Longbowmen as early as the 13th Century practiced and were able to consistently loose 8-10 well aimed arrows per minute at a man sized target at 220 yards. Granted those longbows were in the 100-120 lb draw weight range, but the point is that long shots are very possible provided the equipment and skill of the archer are up to the task. 

I'm certainly not capable of making shots at that range, but I'm sure there are folks out there who can and have. Everyone has to do there own assessment of their skill/ability with their equipment. If your capable of making shots at those kind of ranges then great. No need for all the "ethical vs unethical" bashing. Just my .2 cents.


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## Hoyt Havoc (Jul 27, 2006)

*My furthest was 40 yards*

I practice at 60yds, but my current mindset is 40 yards max. I know I could whack a deer at 60 easy but there's a lot of flight time invloved. 

I don't know what to think about 100 yard shots. I think if I put the time in I could shoot 100 yards with my bow. But man, you'd need a calm day, a standing deer, an accurate range finder, and a nice broadside shot. Then I'd have to do some penetration tests to see if there'd be enough to punch through. To many variables...I'll stay at 40 and maybe 50 if all the above is in place.


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## bbaumer (Jul 19, 2005)

Witnessed 180 yard kill on a elk.

It was a money shoot and the elk was made of foam..................


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## hauksniffer (Dec 15, 2005)

*92 yrd doe*

I shot a 92 yrd doe on film...complete pass threw with a lumenok last season. Definatly not the most ethical shot iv ever made and probably would not do it ever again. I guess I wasn't thinking at the time. 70 yrd is bout the farthest I will go for now and thats pushing it. Although it was the coolest thing to watch on video.


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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

Badlands ND.2016, 93 yard heart shot on mule deer. Was a Follow up shot from 50yds bad range on branch. Badlands ND 2017, 110 yard Heart shot on Mule deer. Follow up from a 50 yard first shot hit quartering hip to rib. 2 hour stalk up. Both not pass through, stopped on the other shoulder. Good bleed out though and about a 40-50 yard run and drop. Video and pics proof for 2017. Don’t get me wrong, I can get in close, 10yards is my record so far. That is the goal every time. I missed a follow up on a big boss I one lunged from 10 yards. After that I bought a bow that could get it done and got to work. I shoot out to 160 tops. At 130 hit a hunter orange baseball hat about every time. Last year at least. Hope to improve this year. Getting geared up to start. April to Sept shoot about an hour a day every day. Xpedition xplorer ss 72 lb, 28” draw, 410 grain Easton bloodline arrows. Sureloc 5pin slider. 1-5 = 20-100 slide out to 160. Could go further if flechings didn’t hit. Chrono at a steady +or-1, 315 FPS. Match all shaft to tips to get within or less that a grain apart in arrows. Wind makes long range shooting impossible. 24”-36” drift at 100 yards with 5-7 mph cross wind. Don’t recommend any shot over 50 yards unless you practice a lot. Shoot a lot to make the one shot count! Some people just shoot 5 or 6 times per year to make sure the bow is on. With that mentality shooting past 20 -30 yards would be too far.


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## SilentElk (Oct 6, 2004)

This thread is 11.5 years old and just got resurrected after nearly 11 years.


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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

Didn’t realize It was being regurgitated from 2007. BTW all long shots w 100gn swacker broadheads. Always have great flight w those heads.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

119 yards on a mule deer doe,frontal facing shot,arrow went through the upper chest and ended up stuck in a femur,doe took two wobbly steps and fell over dead as a door nail.90 yards md doe,70 yards on my first antelope archery kill,none of them needed a follow up.Ethics have parameters,when you shoot over a hundred yards all summer whos to say a 100 yard shot is unethical?For the guy that never shoots over 50 yards all year,absolutely.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

7thgenmt said:


> 119 yards on a mule deer doe,frontal facing shot,arrow went through the upper chest and ended up stuck in a femur,doe took two wobbly steps and fell over dead as a door nail.90 yards md doe,70 yards on my first antelope archery kill,none of them needed a follow up.Ethics have parameters,when you shoot over a hundred yards all summer whos to say a 100 yard shot is unethical?For the guy that never shoots over 50 yards all year,absolutely.



You have no room to cry about road hunters, when you’re out there lobbing 120 shots at animals.


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## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

SilentElk said:


> This thread is 11.5 years old and just got resurrected after nearly 11 years.


I think he joined just to pound his chest about long shots he lucked out on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vcattleco (Jun 17, 2017)

The year was 2017 Location: my back yard. Prey: Chipmunk. I was able to stalk within 8 yards before I got busted, he was busy tearing apart a black walnut. His momentary pause was just long enough...I put a 460 grain gold tip right through his chest cavity and pinned him to the ground. No tracking needed. No follow up shot was required as my dog got there first. Sure it is outside my comfort zone to take such a shot but it "felt right". Perhaps I need to change up my scent control so I can get closer to the next tree rat.


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## Kansas Bruisers (Dec 14, 2006)

SilentElk said:


> This thread is 11.5 years old and just got resurrected after nearly 11 years.


Almost 12 years after chumming the waters and the OP is still catching fish. This has to be a record!!!


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## 6bloodychunks (Oct 26, 2005)

for being an 11 year old thread i still laugh at "could you hear him drinking water?" 

some of us will remember exactly what that is referring to hahahahaha :darkbeer:


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

spike camp said:


> You have no room to cry about road hunters, when you’re out there lobbing 120 shots at animals.


Lobbing?LMAo! When you get in range without the critter knowing you are there and make a single shot clean kill I would hardly call it "lobbing"!Haters gonna hate,those who cant do ***** about those who can,nothing is going to change that.
oh yhe...welcome to the ***** list spike killer


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

7thgenmt said:


> Lobbing?LMAo! When you get in range without the critter knowing you are there and make a single shot clean kill I would hardly call it "lobbing"!Haters gonna hate,those who cant do ***** about those who can,nothing is going to change that.
> oh yhe...welcome to the ***** list spike killer



Spike killler and Elknazi lol
You’re on a roll this morning, Cole.

I hope you get a chance to read me saying you epitomize idiot slob hunters, and I’ll spank your azz in any long range shooting so don’t think for a second you and your weak arm are some butt kicking, long range combo.


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## Todd NE WY (Jul 12, 2007)

For every "single shot clean kill" at those ranges there are dozens if not more of poorly placed shots in which the animal runs off never to be found. You mention cross winds of low velocity making it difficult a long range, what about a step or half step by the animal when you release you arrow, suddenly that "perfect shot placement" isn't perfect anymore. Maybe I offend you long range guys but I was shooting back when Mr. Allen got his first patent(that was the first compound if you didn't realize Bowtech, Matthews, PSE, Martin, etc did not invent the compound), and bow hunting when just round wheel compounds were available, seems like we were able to kill animals back then just fine without shooting farther than we can see.


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## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

7thgenmt said:


> 119 yards on a mule deer doe,frontal facing shot,arrow went through the upper chest and ended up stuck in a femur,doe took two wobbly steps and fell over dead as a door nail.90 yards md doe,70 yards on my first antelope archery kill,none of them needed a follow up.Ethics have parameters,when you shoot over a hundred yards all summer whos to say a 100 yard shot is unethical?For the guy that never shoots over 50 yards all year,absolutely.


...


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## elkslayerRoy (Mar 2, 2010)

I once made a 7 yard shot on an elk! I am kinda proud of that. Lol


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## Nofish (Oct 7, 2015)

Sounds like a few guys got lucky taking dumb shots, good for them I guess. Some commented about being able to group well at 80, 90, 100 yards but the thing about grouping on a paper target is that the target doesn't move. A lot can happen in the time it takes for an arrow to travel 80-100+ yards. The wind can change, the animal can take a step or rotate slightly, you could glance an arrow off a twig 70 yards away that you could never possibly see, etc. 

The fact that you can make a shot on a stationary target from those distances does not make the shot on a animal any more ethical. There is simply far too much that is out of your control at those distances and that is what makes the shot unethical. Sure you'll get lucky from time to time and nothing will change from release of arrow up until impact with the animal but that wouldn't be the case every time and you'll end up wounding a lot of animals in the process.


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## crawdad (Jul 21, 2008)

I shoot 2 inch groups at 1,000 yards. All my friends have seen me do it over and over. Killed a moose at 300 yards. Would have definitely killed a grizzly at 500 yards but he moved.

Ain't the internet great? I am the MAN!

Video or it never happened. "At 130 hit a hunter orange baseball hat about every time." Post a video of 10 straight shots at 130 and I'll shut up. Until then I'm gonna hate.

It's not that it can't be done, it's that the ones who can actually do it are generally not on here bragging that they can. They just do it. Still irresponsible to shoot at a live animal that has much more than a full second to move if shooting 300 fps, which is MUCH slower than that over the entire 100 yards.


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

I know a little about long range kills..


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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

Not pounding my chest, just way into Archery and saw the post and figured I would share. Maybe it makes me unethical in your eyes. Your welcome to your own opinion. I can try and post some vids on here when I get out and going. I have some vids later so you can see the lites knocks. I do have a vid of the 110 kill shot. Wouldn’t call it luck as much as training though! I shoot a lot!!! I went from 50 being the max range about 3 years ago to 80 and to 100. Then kept learning and tuning my rig. I think the steady arm and muscle memory is all it’s about. I have missed several of shots due to this or that no lining up. I can regularly stalk into 30-40 yards on mule deer and that’s my goal. But if you need or have a chance for a follow up shot. I’d rather be able to take one than not. Human error is always a factor.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

Those who cant ***** about those that do and wont put in the time needed to do it themselves so its automatically unethical....next you will be crying about my 8-900 yard rifle kills or 300 yard muzzle loader kill...take the time to challenge yourself,its fun.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

I know a guy that shot a 200" plus mulie at 125yds last year on the Az strip

We aren't of the same mind when it comes to long shots...but i like the guy so I don't sweat it.

[Consider the pot stirred- grin]


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## Point-N-Shoot (Oct 25, 2015)

Hold up guys....maybe he's Jim Burnworth?


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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

110yd heart shot trying to post vid. Any help on posting a vid?


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## Vcattleco (Jun 17, 2017)

ahunter55 said:


> I know a little about long range kills..


Picture reminds me of Full Metal Jacket. "if they run they're VC, if they dont run they're well trained VC"


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

7thgenmt said:


> Those who cant ***** about those that do and wont put in the time needed to do it themselves so its automatically unethical....next you will be crying about my 8-900 yard rifle kills or 300 yard muzzle loader kill...take the time to challenge yourself,its fun.


Most bowhunters do challenge themselves... it's called target practice. 

"Ethics" is just a word... until you practice it.

"Bowhunter" is just a word, too... but, it's supposed to mean someone who values the way in which they kill an animal... much, much more than they value having the animal in the back of their pickup.
Maturity usually corrects things with experience and knowledge. Think about that.


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

XShooterallday said:


> 110yd heart shot trying to post vid. Any help on posting a vid?


I, for one... would be much more comfortable with you in rifle season.


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## soldierarcher (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't get why people get all bent about long shot's? I see plenty of archers that are un-ethical at ANY yardage! I would trust XShooterallday way more at 100+ yards than these people at 5 yards.

Another angle is out past 50 yards I doubt the animal is going to hear the bow so your chances of a quality shot could be HIGHER if your confident out that far. Maybe because I'm former Army and used to long range stuff? Don't know, I have a friend that participates in 1000 yard rifle shoots. I would not want to be down range at all when he is shooting, dude can flat put bullets on target!

I always go back to knowing your own individual sight picture. That's what ethic's are to me, because let's face it, we all have seen the Cabela's archers day before season opens just bought their bow, "going to get a new bow and hunt the next day crowd." That right there get's my blood boiling.......


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## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

XShooterallday said:


> Not pounding my chest.


I absolutely agree with you.just join AT and happen to stumble on a 10 year old thread ( you had to do some searching to find this one) and with all the informative threads on this site this is the only one you post on....totally agree my friend no chest pounding at all.Congrats on your abilities


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

Hey white shoe,you and elknazi should team up,you are both real good at telling people they shouldnt do what they have been doing for years because you cant/wont do it....You are the reason hunters are not united,your 'ethics" and "maturity" prevent you from realizing all you are doing is creating discord among like minded people.They get bent out of shape because they are jealous,its that simple,telling someone they should only hunt rifle season?What a DB thing to say.Just a heads up,there are "hunters" out there that probably think your 50 yard shot is unethical.Id love to see your 110 yard video,wish I had vid of my 119,its was a beautiful thing to see.


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

7thgenmt said:


> Hey white shoe,you and elknazi should team up,you are both real good at telling people they shouldnt do what they have been doing for years because you cant/wont do it....You are the reason hunters are not united,your 'ethics" and "maturity" prevent you from realizing all you are doing is creating discord among like minded people.They get bent out of shape because they are jealous,its that simple,telling someone they should only hunt rifle season?What a DB thing to say.Just a heads up,there are "hunters" out there that probably think your 50 yard shot is unethical.Id love to see your 110 yard video,wish I had vid of my 119,its was a beautiful thing to see.


You misunderstand.
I just listed some personal observations and truths, as I know them to be. Read it again.
As far as my comment to xshooter... it was an honest comment.
I'm not a rabid, close range guy. I feel that the ability to be accurate at long range is a very worthwhile endeavor.
Follow-up shots come to mind.
However, if you're here to tell me that these 110, 120 140 yard shots are just "you challenging yourself," I'm going to have a difficult time believing you.


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## JMart294 (Feb 2, 2012)

I killed a deer at 148 yards in thick timber back when I shot rage broadheads.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

I'm with White shoes and Elkman on this UBER long shot flinging arrows at 100yds plus thing. 


I've hunted elk with a few of the top target guys [ASA 3d guys, The IBO world champ] and if some of you guys here think you can hang with them [HA!]...then put up your money and compete.

*I've seen those top guys miss hunting shots- it happens..*.guys that can hit a $.25 cent piece every time at 40 yds on a stationary 3d target. Money shooters....not compete in your backyard guys [like myself]

Hunting shots are different, for many reasons..........*.there are essentially 3 types of guys taking these long shots;* 

1) they think they can do it because they are a very good target shooter

2) They really don't care all that much and lack respect for the animal. In other words, they are going to take that shot knowing its not 100% but by gawd, they are going to roll the dice. The guy in the thread I posted on the Western Gallery, 'Elk scenario, not bugling" is a perfect example of this #2.

3) Inexperienced enough to know, "Iffy shots aren't worth it"...not a insult to newbies, they don't know what they don't know.
They haven't shot enough to see a few bad shots...or suffer through days of tracking a wounded animal.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

And to back ^that up with facts. My good buddy used to guide on a hog ranch in Norcal....one of the best pure hunters I know. [A #2 guy when it came to hogs]

It was hogs...so he didn't say anything when a guy wanted to take a long shot. Over a 4 year period, he had some great shooters in camp....some pros. He had a 120yd target set up near camp and there were guys that could group arrows on a pie plate at the range, point is some good shooters. 

OF THE 30 PLUS VERY LONG SHOTS FROM 80-120yds THESE GUYS SHOT......THEY RECOVERED ONE ANIMAL. ONE

So when I see guys bragging about these long shots....I just wonder how many they wounded....


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## crawdad (Jul 21, 2008)

From a website on my phone, feel free to correct this if you can find it on a real computer:

“Olympic archers are the best we'll ever do....

An Olympic archer can reliably put an arrow into a 12cm ring at 70m.”

And 12 cm is a bit longer than a cigarette. So forgive me if saying you can reliably hit an orange hat at 130 yds...

You should be in the Olympics.


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## ego260 (Dec 26, 2011)

JMart294 said:


> I killed a deer at 148 yards in thick timber back when I shot rage broadheads.


I bet you had poor penetration. I broadhead tune out to 1,000yds, pass throughs all day also at that range. It's all in the hips once you get past the 500 yd mark.........


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Beendare said:


> I'm with White shoes and Elkman on this UBER long shot flinging arrows at 100yds plus thing.
> 
> 
> I've hunted elk with a few of the top target guys [ASA 3d guys, The IBO world champ] and if some of you guys here think you can hang with them [HA!]...then put up your money and compete.
> ...


Your #1, #2, #3 definitions are perfect.
And, you're also right... they aren't fooling anyone. We all know the risks involved in those kinds of distances.
Let's face it.... there is no range at which you can shoot an animal with a bow where you are 100% sure of the outcome. There have been woundings at 3 yards.
However, there are degrees of certainty... with different archers... at different distances... and, with different species of animals. 
The degree of certainty needed before someone 
green-lights a shot might be different from one hunter to the next, but when it dips much below 90%... ethics are going to come in to question. 
There are plenty of bowhunters that possess the knowledge of the animal and the shooting skills necessary to shoot at distances that some other bowhunters might raise an eyebrow at. There are eastern guys that wouldn't dream of taking a shot beyond 25yds. But, they've never been faced with open country, spot and stalk hunting.
But, no matter how someone shoots on the range, there is just no possibility that any archer can shoot those kinds of ultra-long distances at a live animal... with any kind of satisfactory certainty.


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

XShooterallday said:


> Badlands ND.2016, 93 yard heart shot on mule deer. Was a Follow up shot from 50yds bad range on branch. Badlands ND 2017, 110 yard Heart shot on Mule deer. Follow up from a 50 yard first shot hit quartering hip to rib. 2 hour stalk up. Both not pass through, stopped on the other shoulder. Good bleed out though and about a 40-50 yard run and drop. Video and pics proof for 2017. Don’t get me wrong, I can get in close, 10yards is my record so far. That is the goal every time. I missed a follow up on a big boss I one lunged from 10 yards. After that I bought a bow that could get it done and got to work. I shoot out to 160 tops. At 130 hit a hunter orange baseball hat about every time. Last year at least. Hope to improve this year. Getting geared up to start. April to Sept shoot about an hour a day every day. Xpedition xplorer ss 72 lb, 28” draw, 410 grain Easton bloodline arrows. Sureloc 5pin slider. 1-5 = 20-100 slide out to 160. Could go further if flechings didn’t hit. Chrono at a steady +or-1, 315 FPS. Match all shaft to tips to get within or less that a grain apart in arrows. Wind makes long range shooting impossible. 24”-36” drift at 100 yards with 5-7 mph cross wind. Don’t recommend any shot over 50 yards unless you practice a lot. Shoot a lot to make the one shot count! Some people just shoot 5 or 6 times per year to make sure the bow is on. With that mentality shooting past 20 -30 yards would be too far.


I'm going to apologize to xshooter.
I read this again and his long shots are all follow-ups.
I had it in my head that they were first shots.
Again, I'm sorry.


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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

Honestly, I get more of a rush stalking up. I’d like to hunt with a stick bow. I have shot bows most of my life and I can shoot pretty well instinctive. I don’t feel I am consistent enough to hunt with one though. It’s a real bad feeling to wound an animal! I’d not have taken either of those shot had I not already hit. I could not get closer than 50 because the Deer must have winded me and my bro. We were waiting at 50 for a good plan to get closer or for him to stand up. Then he started turning his head, stood Up. If I can figure out how to post a video I will share. And I was in a google search for long range sight tapes. Saw this link for long range confirmed kills. Thats how I found this page. I figured I’d be some like minded people and a few people trolling. Don’t have the time to post things all over on this page or that. I would if I had found it sooner I’m sure. I had a ton of questions and got most of my answers by YouTube videos. Then I figured the rest out. I use I guess you’d call it a nose “kisser” button. Thread stacked in a spot I touch on the top of my nose as one of my anchor points. Jaw with my release and ring my peep on my sight housing. Also my bubble level is just right below my 100yd pin. I think that helps.


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## Aaroncoastie (Feb 26, 2018)

Honestly I get more of a thrill stalking in close than taking a 100 yard poke. My most memorable hunt was the Buck I arrowed at 5 yards after watching him bed down. Yes its fun shooting at 100 plus and I practice it regularly but why trust technology over woodsman ship. Realistically there is maybe 1 hunter in 100 who can shoot consistently enough in the field to take a poke that long ethically. Play the wind take off your boots and sneak on in. That's what I love about the hunt.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

spike camp said:


> You have no room to cry about road hunters, when you’re out there lobbing 120 shots at animals.


Frontal shots at That! Crazy!


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

da white shoe said:


> I'm going to apologize to xshooter.
> I read this again and his long shots are all follow-ups.
> I had it in my head that they were first shots.
> Again, I'm sorry.


Yeah, I noticed that too, figured everyone else did too. I have no issue with people taking long follow up shots, other than having fun, and shooting some distance for practice, the only thing my 50 and 60 yd pins are good for in the woods is follow up shots.

I do think there are people who can take a longer shot responsibly, than I will, but I think a lot more think they can.

Over the years I have dropped my first shot limit 20 yds, and it's not because I shoot worse, just reevaluated my mentality. 

Not saying I'm right or wrong, just my thoughts.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

roosiebull said:


> I have no issue with people taking long follow up shots, other than having fun, and shooting some distance for practice, ....


^Good point. 

Thats the reason i practice those very long shots. I had to make a 93 yard shot on a mulie i wounded in NV when he moved on the initial shot. Felt good to drill him stacking pins at that range


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

Maybe you should have shot the first time from further out and that deer wouldnt have jumped and required follow up shots...let me guess that 93 yard shot dropped him didnt it?


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

7thgenmt said:


> Maybe you should have shot the first time from further out and that deer wouldnt have jumped and required follow up shots...let me guess that 93 yard shot dropped him didnt it?


No. That's not how the game is played.
It is... for you, granted.
But, you're nothing special... shooting a doe, facing you at 119yds. You think you are, but your attitude is plainly evident for all to see. Nearly two full seconds of trajectory... is hoping.
What you're attempting there, we all could be that way.
But, that's not how the game is played.


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## Jeremiah29:11 (Dec 18, 2016)

I am fairly sure I once heard Tim gillingham on the gritty bowmen podcast talking about shooting rhinehart 18 in ones at over 100 yards and how hard it was to pull the arrows out. He said that it was because the arrows were flying so straight after that distant that all the energy was going straight through the tip, and there was very little wobble in the arrow. As to if this would hold true when it comes to penetration on an animal at that distance I have no clue, but let’s not completely write off the part off the story where it was a pass through. Anyway, just an idea. let’s try to keep this civil!


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

I have had great penetration on "soft" targets(deer,antelope,yotes) at long range,longest pass through on a deer was a MD doe at 70.Longest shot on an elk was 66 yards and had arrow just barely sticking out both sides(double lung),bull went 150 yards on a dead run and collapsed.That was obviously the far end of the penetration range on an elk,wouldnt have taken much more range to reduce the penetration to nothing.


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## crawdad (Jul 21, 2008)

And just to be clear, xshooter, I don't want to see videos of your long kill shots, just waiting on seeing a video of you making 10 straight shots at an orange ball cap at 130 yards. One that demonstrates that it was both a) 130 yards and b) was 10 shots in a row.


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## jager69 (Oct 5, 2014)

With an eye patch on, a ball gag in your mouth,and wearing a cubs shirt!


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## MtnOak (Feb 7, 2016)

Can't believe some of the posts (bashing) on here.

You killed the animal, good shot.


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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

MtnOyster said:


> Can't believe some of the posts (bashing) on here.
> 
> You killed the animal, good shot.


Seriously! The shot was to put down a wounded animal. Glad he practiced those ranges and made it happen 

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk


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## Jeremiah29:11 (Dec 18, 2016)

So, I suppose the good luck of the cubs shirt was meant to offset the eye patch??:wink:


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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

Screen caps from video hero4 headcam. It is not allowing me to post the video so that’s the best I can do for now. I didn’t range it. My bro did right at my shoulder.


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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

Crawdad, I’ll give it a try this summer. Starting all over again this year as soon as the weather is better. I may not hit it all 10 but I’ll try. Also. I’m not shooting w field tips. Practice swacker broadheads. I use the100 grain greens. I have tried a few types. Seems the faster bow needs less resistance. I cannot even hit a 20x20 target at 50 yards with a slick trick. I in all my practice, have noticed that major issues can happen after 50 to 60yards. Wind weather and when you see that 170”-200” wood I’ve sent some shakie arrows and even at 30 yards missed like I was playing a tune with my arrow on a non typical buck. I’m just a human being. We can do amazing and stupid things alike. I’m good enough to put meat in the freezer and that’s all that really matters to me. Plus it’s a blast doing it!


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## crawdad (Jul 21, 2008)

No offense, xshooter, it’s just that accuracy claims on AT tend to be exaggerated, and yours would appear to put you in the Olympics category. NOT the kill shots, the hitting a ball cap at 130 yards, reliably. If you made 8 out of 10 I would admit to being very impressed. 

And I agree with those who say extreme long shots to finish a wounded animal are worth stretching one’s abilities.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

crawdad said:


> No offense, xshooter, it’s just that accuracy claims on AT tend to be exaggerated, and yours would appear to put you in the Olympics category. NOT the kill shots, the hitting a ball cap at 130 yards, reliably. If you made 8 out of 10 I would admit to being very impressed.
> 
> And I agree with those who say extreme long shots to finish a wounded animal are worth stretching one’s abilities.


And who said he couldnt be an Olympic shooter?Some day you haters are going to figure out we dont practice long range to impress AT experts,we do it to challenge ourselves and make hunting even more fun.If your going to practice finishing off wounded critters at long range why not practice killing them with a single shot at long range?


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

7thgenmt said:


> And who said he couldnt be an Olympic shooter?Some day you haters are going to figure out we dont practice long range to impress AT experts,we do it to challenge ourselves and make hunting even more fun.If your going to practice finishing off wounded critters at long range why not practice killing them with a single shot at long range?


Hahaha.

You guys will never learn, and will keep bragging about the one or 2 times it worked out for you, exaggerating your skill, and keeping the bad shots quiet.


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## Griswald (Feb 28, 2018)

I shot a turkey at 91 yards. I have it on camera. Quite a bit of luck was involved, but I made the shot again and was only off 2-3". So it wasnt as lucky i guess.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

Post it up!


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

7thgenmt said:


> If your going to practice finishing off wounded critters at long range why not practice killing them with a single shot at long range?


It's simple, but I don't expect you'll "get it."
It's because the odds of a clean, quick kill are lower than what we, as bowhunters SHOULD find acceptable.
It doesn't matter how good you are on targets.
Anyone with 5 years of western bowhunting experience can see what you're doing. Basically, cheating.
Cheating the animals.
Cheating the sport, as a whole. 
And, cheating yourself, really.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

da white shoe said:


> it's simple, but i don't expect you'll "get it."
> it's because the odds of a clean, quick kill are lower than what we, as bowhunters should find acceptable.
> It doesn't matter how good you are on targets.
> Anyone with 5 years of western bowhunting experience can see what you're doing. Basically, cheating.
> ...



Nailed It!!


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

da white shoe said:


> It's simple, but I don't expect you'll "get it."
> It's because the odds of a clean, quick kill are lower than what we, as bowhunters SHOULD find acceptable.
> It doesn't matter how good you are on targets.
> Anyone with 5 years of western bowhunting experience can see what you're doing. Basically, cheating.
> ...



^well said


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## TAIL~~CHASER (Dec 14, 2015)

Have no clue on confirmed.
Oh Timmy Wells.... Right or left handed.
Take your pick.
https://youtu.be/dIH0bz0Lz0w
https://youtu.be/yInOhStlGao


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

Tim Wells, has the same slob hunter mentality as 7thgenmt


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

spike camp said:


> Tim Wells, has the same slob hunter mentality as 7thgenmt


But likely way more talent:wink:

I agree wells takes lots of irresponsible shots, but holy smokes that guy is talented with a bow. I think he is a poor example to compare others to.


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## Gruder (Feb 19, 2016)

Well just read the last couple pages to see what y'all are saying. Can't add much but I know from past posts some of these ATers have sons and daughters hunting age and have thought long and hard about what kind of example they want to be and what life lessons they want there offspring to learn and carry long after they're gone. I'd rather share a camp with them then listen to somebody tell me how far they can shoot


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## Freelance Bowhunter (Sep 7, 2010)

I admire people who make really long shots and those who can punch 10 rings at targets all day long. I have been bowhunting for 45 years and I'm just not that good of a shot. I have killed animals out to 45 yards and I practice to 55, but I am no competition shooter. I have no interest in shooting an animal with an arrow at 100 yards. I bowhunt because it means I have to get close; that's the challenge for me. If I wanted to shoot stuff at 100 yards I would hunt with a gun. That's just me personally.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

Anyone who is crying about people taking long shots better stop for a second and think,there are people out there who think anything over 20 yards is too far,anything with a compound bow is cheating,anything that involves taking an animals life should be outlawed.There are plenty of guys out west who practice long range and kill game at ranges you might consider too long every year(and lots that wound game at 15 yards).Crying about it does nothing but drive a wedge in to a group of like minded people who need to stand together.One of the life lessons they should be teaching is not pressing your personal choices on other people,theres a group of guys right here that should think about that.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

^^^Backpedaling and hypocrisy at its finest^^^


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

7thgenmt said:


> Anyone who is crying about people taking long shots better stop for a second and think,there are people out there who think anything over 20 yards is too far,anything with a compound bow is cheating,anything that involves taking an animals life should be outlawed.There are plenty of guys out west who practice long range and kill game at ranges you might consider too long every year(and lots that wound game at 15 yards).Crying about it does nothing but drive a wedge in to a group of like minded people who need to stand together.One of the life lessons they should be teaching is not pressing your personal choices on other people,theres a group of guys right here that should think about that.


I'll teach my boys that voicing their personal beliefs is just fine with me. It's how discussion begins. It's how attitudes change. 
If there is a wedge, it's your problem. 
Pressing views... sounds a lot like discussion to me.
No one is forcing any views here. We can't stop you. 
To a great degree, we're on the honor-system with our choices while bowhunting. There is no law against long distance shooting, so you're free to do what you want.
Just don't expect that you're going to be admired and praised from the vast majority... hunter and non-hunter alike. Like I said before... anyone with much experience in bowhunting at all... knows exactly what you're doing when you shoot at an uninjured big game animal at 120yds.
I seriously doubt that pulling out the "we need to stick together" card is going to sway anyone's views on the subject. Poachers more than likely vote with hunters, too.


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## palmatedbuck04 (Nov 26, 2006)

7thgenmt said:


> Anyone who is crying about people taking long shots better stop for a second and think,there are people out there who think anything over 20 yards is too far,anything with a compound bow is cheating,anything that involves taking an animals life should be outlawed.There are plenty of guys out west who practice long range and kill game at ranges you might consider too long every year(and lots that wound game at 15 yards).Crying about it does nothing but drive a wedge in to a group of like minded people who need to stand together.One of the life lessons they should be teaching is not pressing your personal choices on other people,theres a group of guys right here that should think about that.


One problem were not like minded people.....


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## crawdad (Jul 21, 2008)

7thgenmt said:


> And who said he couldnt be an Olympic shooter?Some day you haters are going to figure out we dont practice long range to impress AT experts,we do it to challenge ourselves and make hunting even more fun.If your going to practice finishing off wounded critters at long range why not practice killing them with a single shot at long range?


Hey, all I said was "show me". He (xshooterallday) is the one who came on AT and made a statement that he could hit an orange baseball cap at 130 yards "about every time". Well, that seems very unbelievable to me and many others, especially here on AT where everyone is an Olympian. 

I say, if you make a big claim on here, back it up with a video. Every third poster on here likes to self-film and has a GoPro, or at least a video cam, or even a smart phone. It wouldn't be that difficult. If he can do it, I will sincerely congratulate him. Same goes for you and all the long shooters.

But just making the claim with no proof, well....it's the internet.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

crawdad said:


> Hey, all I said was "show me". He (xshooterallday) is the one who came on AT and made a statement that he could hit an orange baseball cap at 130 yards "about every time". Well, that seems very unbelievable to me and many others, especially here on AT where everyone is an Olympian.
> 
> I say, if you make a big claim on here, back it up with a video. Every third poster on here likes to self-film and has a GoPro, or at least a video cam, or even a smart phone. It wouldn't be that difficult. If he can do it, I will sincerely congratulate him. Same goes for you and all the long shooters.
> 
> But just making the claim with no proof, well....it's the internet.


As is the guys trash talking and doubting the skills of other hunters,I seriously doubt any of us "long shooters" feel the need to provide you with proof of anything.


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## catscratch (Jan 5, 2010)

What a pissing match this thread has become! I don't get it... just because someone is better at something than me doesn't mean I need to put them down, in fact I normally recognize that they worked harder and achieved something that I didn't. This is the only place I see this attitude. In real life winners tend to be recognized as people who were harder working and more dedicated. I like to run and I race often. When I get beat by someone who runs a 4:10 mile I give them props for putting in the training and accomplishing something that my training didn't accomplish. With that said, I'm not a long distance shooter. The longest shot I've attempted (I did hit the kill zone) was 43yds, otherwise I seldom shoot at animals further than 20yds. That is my slam dunk distance and I have no desire to shoot further at game. I certainly don't care if someone else practices at 80yds and routinely make 50yd shots on game. Props to them for practicing and making a good shot.


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## cypert1 (Jul 10, 2016)

Gotta love AT. Sight full of Olympic class archers who have no trouble posting in here every day but can’t be bothered to show a video of their shooting prowess. Don’t know what’s better, them or the people that actually believe them. Of course, this is the sight that spawned Ohiobooners and his entourage, so you can’t expect much different.


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## crawdad (Jul 21, 2008)

OK 7th..

By the way I just shot a robin hood at 1,000 yards. But I seriously don't feel the need to provide proof of anything.

Please don't doubt my skills.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

7thgenmt said:


> As is the guys trash talking and doubting the skills of other hunters,I seriously doubt any of us "long shooters" feel the need to provide you with proof of anything.


but you have no problem boasting about your alleged "long distance shooting"? haha, a very humble group you guys are:wink: 

I bet most of the self proclaimed long distance archers aren't even good enough to kill a target every time at the range you guys are willing to shoot at game. how many times have we read "I shot a deer (or whatever) at 115 yds, I practice a lot out to 100yds. 

the silver lining here (I recognize there are a few exceptions, but not many) people willing to shoot 100+yds at game with a bow likely will be no threat to the wildlife, they are trying to compensate for their lack of hunting skill by practicing shooting further. the vast majority of hunters with legitimate skill to accurately shoot 100+yds still know how and prefer to take shots at game much closer.

I do think it's a valuable skill set to be an excellent target archer at long range, for several obvious reasons, but I don't think much of someone who will take a 100+yd shot at healthy game. I also recognize that is just my opinion, and i'm not trying to recruit others to think as I do.


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## H20fwler (Apr 1, 2014)

My furthest with a bow...maybe thirty yards. I haven't ever needed or wanted to shoot at one further.
We practice from 10-70 yards all the time.


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## kynadog (Nov 3, 2004)

I practice out to 50 yards, but I wouldn't shoot that far. Longest shot on a whitetail was 35 yards and I doubt I would do it again. 30 and under is more reasonble for my skill level.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

cypert1 said:


> Gotta love AT. Sight full of Olympic class archers who have no trouble posting in here every day but can’t be bothered to show a video of their shooting prowess. Don’t know what’s better, them or the people that actually believe them. Of course, this is the sight that spawned Ohiobooners and his entourage, so you can’t expect much different.


Its full of hateful Edited that think everyone needs to show them a video of their shots or worms that feel the need to turn every thread about XXXX into an insult strewnEditedmatch.So is the world,keyboard experts abound,let them stew in their own misery,isnt going to change a damn thing.Any one of you thinks your *****in is going to change someones mind about what they do is only showing us what kind of db you really are.And thats all I have to say bout that(Forest Gump voice)

Clean it up folks, there are kids here.


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## MattyB (Jan 8, 2007)

87 yards Sept 2017


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## Elknutz_1 (Aug 17, 2016)

da white shoe said:


> It's simple, but I don't expect you'll "get it."
> It's because the odds of a clean, quick kill are lower than what we, as bowhunters SHOULD find acceptable.
> It doesn't matter how good you are on targets.
> Anyone with 5 years of western bowhunting experience can see what you're doing. Basically, cheating.
> ...


Extremely well said!


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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

No S on my chest. Just a human being. Practice anything and you will get good at it. Unless it’s just not your thing. You will never know what your capable of unless you step outside your box. I used to struggle to hit a playing card from 50 yards. Shooting with your broadheads is also a must. It sucks when you junk them but you will never know how they fly if you don’t let some fly. Most broadheads start getting stupid after 40 to 50 yards. I don’t have the money to try them all but swacker heads fly good all all types of bows. They fly good and true to 160. Spine has to dead on for your setup also. All my arrows are under a 1/2 a grain apart by mix matching heads and arrows. Instead of saying how impossible things can be. How about ask what it took to get to that point. My setup is solid and have ruled out all things that can be off with it and the arrows. So when I miss it’s because of me only. If I hit it’s not because of luck or wishes.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

XShooterallday said:


> No S on my chest. Just a human being. Practice anything and you will get good at it. Unless it’s just not your thing. You will never know what your capable of unless you step outside your box. I used to struggle to hit a playing card from 50 yards. Shooting with your broadheads is also a must. It sucks when you junk them but you will never know how they fly if you don’t let some fly. Most broadheads start getting stupid after 40 to 50 yards. I don’t have the money to try them all but swacker heads fly good all all types of bows. They fly good and true to 160. Spine has to dead on for your setup also. All my arrows are under a 1/2 a grain apart by mix matching heads and arrows. Instead of saying how impossible things can be. How about ask what it took to get to that point. My setup is solid and have ruled out all things that can be off with it and the arrows. So when I miss it’s because of me only. If I hit it’s not because of luck or wishes.


how do you go about making sure the animal holds still? just practice a lot? ask them? put some "deer cane" by your little wind flag? if you believe in yourself, will the deer just hold still?

also, how do you know if your arrow has enough umph at 100+yds, especially with a mech head? you just shoot at a deer and hope it does, and use that for a future baseline?

maybe if you long range guys explained how you can responsibly take game with your bow at 100+yds, people would be more understanding.... can you do that? how do you control all of the factors that are out of your control? do you just learn not to care, and factor it into odds? "ya get some, ya lose some"

why not just get a little closer and stack the odds in your favor? take many of the failure factors out of the equation. surely, if you are dedicated enough to easily hit a playing card past 50 yds, every single time, you would also dedicate time to being a good hunter, that can easily stalk within 50 yds before you shoot.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

7thgenmt said:


> Its full of hateful Edited that think everyone needs to show them a video of their shots or worms that feel the need to turn every thread about XXXX into an insult strewnEditedmatch.So is the world,keyboard experts abound,let them stew in their own misery,isnt going to change a damn thing.Any one of you thinks your *****in is going to change someones mind about what they do is only showing us what kind of db you really are.And thats all I have to say bout that(Forest Gump voice)
> 
> Clean it up folks, there are kids here.


if you are this emotional about an internet forum topic, I can't imagine your composure would be good enough to take a long shot at a game animal:drama:


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## 6bloodychunks (Oct 26, 2005)

hahaha this resurrected thread gets better every day LOL 

ill say this.......if you can....do.....but be prepared to prove it


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

XShooterallday said:


> No S on my chest. Just a human being. Practice anything and you will get good at it. Unless it’s just not your thing. You will never know what your capable of unless you step outside your box. I used to struggle to hit a playing card from 50 yards. Shooting with your broadheads is also a must. It sucks when you junk them but you will never know how they fly if you don’t let some fly. Most broadheads start getting stupid after 40 to 50 yards. I don’t have the money to try them all but swacker heads fly good all all types of bows. They fly good and true to 160. Spine has to dead on for your setup also. All my arrows are under a 1/2 a grain apart by mix matching heads and arrows. Instead of saying how impossible things can be. How about ask what it took to get to that point. My setup is solid and have ruled out all things that can be off with it and the arrows. So when I miss it’s because of me only. If I hit it’s not because of luck or wishes.


Their "ethics" wont allow it,then they wouldnt be able to tell you and anyone else who will listen about how much better of a hunter and human they are than you.Haters gonna hate XShooter,just keep proving them wrong.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

XShooterallday said:


> No S on my chest. Just a human being. Practice anything and you will get good at it. Unless it’s just not your thing. You will never know what your capable of unless you step outside your box. I used to struggle to hit a playing card from 50 yards. Shooting with your broadheads is also a must. It sucks when you junk them but you will never know how they fly if you don’t let some fly. Most broadheads start getting stupid after 40 to 50 yards. I don’t have the money to try them all but swacker heads fly good all all types of bows. They fly good and true to 160. Spine has to dead on for your setup also. All my arrows are under a 1/2 a grain apart by mix matching heads and arrows. Instead of saying how impossible things can be. How about ask what it took to get to that point. My setup is solid and have ruled out all things that can be off with it and the arrows. So when I miss it’s because of me only. If I hit it’s not because of luck or wishes.





7thgenmt said:


> Their "ethics" wont allow it,then they wouldnt be able to tell you and anyone else who will listen about how much better of a hunter and human they are than you.Haters gonna hate XShooter,just keep proving them wrong.




He hasn’t proven a thing...
Both of you either put up video, or shut up, because everyone that’s read this thread knows exactly what you’re doing.

I can shoot well too, at long range..so don’t think you guys are special or unique in some way with your abilities.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

I’ve killed animals in the triple digits, but I’ll admit they weren’t my brightest moments. Just happened to work out. 


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## BowhunterT100 (Feb 5, 2009)

49 yards


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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

Woodchuck at 75 yards. I consider myself a very ethical hunter and normally would never shoot at a healthy animal at that range. but we'll it's a woodchuck and imo they should all be executed if given the opportunity. Jmo

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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

leoncrandall74 said:


> Woodchuck at 75 yards. I consider myself a very ethical hunter and normally would never shoot at a healthy animal at that range. but we'll it's a woodchuck and imo they should all be executed if given the opportunity. Jmo
> 
> Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk


You weren't anywhere around Punxsutawney, Pa... we're you? You don't want to get blamed for this late spring...


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

XShooterallday said:


> No S on my chest.


Just make sure you don't end up with an L on your forehead.


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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

da white shoe said:


> You weren't anywhere around Punxsutawney, Pa... we're you? You don't want to get blamed for this late spring...


Gonna sound dumb but what happened? By the sound of it he's dead. I must have missed something. 

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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

leoncrandall74 said:


> Woodchuck at 75 yards. I consider myself a very ethical hunter and normally would never shoot at a healthy animal at that range. but we'll it's a woodchuck and imo they should all be executed if given the opportunity. Jmo
> 
> Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk


I went sage rat shooting last weekend, my first shot I whacked one at 58 yds, then the next shot was over 40, and another dead rat....that avg didn't hold up long, but I was doing pretty good. I was happy to start with a double, that first shot matters.

for me, varmints are exempt from distance I will shoot. can't really hit a sage rat with an arrow with a judo and not kill it:wink:


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

spike camp said:


> He hasn’t proven a thing...
> Both of you either put up video, or shut up, because everyone that’s read this thread knows exactly what you’re doing.
> 
> I can shoot well too, at long range..so don’t think you guys are special or unique in some way with your abilities.


I will quote you so he can read this, I think we are both on his ignore list, haha. he is very fragile. i'm guessing he will definitely accept your challenge, we should have a video by the end of the evening:wink:


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

leoncrandall74 said:


> Gonna sound dumb but what happened? By the sound of it he's dead. I must have missed something.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk


I was just concerned that you may have killed "Phil, the groundhog." The one that predicts the weather...


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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

da white shoe said:


> I was just concerned that you may have killed "Phil, the groundhog." The one that predicts the weather...


Lol I'd let him have a pass. I think he's more like someones pet. But if he was roaming the streets like other vermin he'd be fair game. Haa ha 

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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

roosiebull said:


> I went sage rat shooting last weekend, my first shot I whacked one at 58 yds, then the next shot was over 40, and another dead rat....that avg didn't hold up long, but I was doing pretty good. I was happy to start with a double, that first shot matters.
> 
> for me, varmints are exempt from distance I will shoot. can't really hit a sage rat with an arrow with a judo and not kill it:wink:


That's exactly how I feel. 
Sounds like you were on a roll. And made it happen on the most important shot. The first one 

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## XShooterallday (Mar 28, 2018)

Can anyone tell me how to post a video on here? It will just let me upload pics.


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## Irish Lad (Feb 3, 2014)

I live out west (Utah). I have a 60 yard range in the back and can shoot consistently well at that distance. I'm 62 now and don't pull more than 60 pounds.The kid next door (young man now) backs up into his yard and shoots consistently well from 80- 100 yards (rhinehart broadhead buck). My grandson who lives with me and been shooting since he was 10 shot his 1st muley at 46 yards when he was 12. He can shoot well to 70 yards. I have seen a handful of deer taken at the 55-65 yard range. The kid next door shot a nice elk at 104 yards this year. IIMHO it is ethical for him to shoot that far. Not saying everyone should, but some can.


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## Teemster (Jul 11, 2014)

XShooterallday said:


> Can anyone tell me how to post a video on here? It will just let me upload pics.


UL it to YouTube and link it


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

XShooterallday said:


> Can anyone tell me how to post a video on here? It will just let me upload pics.


upload to youtube, then post the link here.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

Irish Lad said:


> I live out west (Utah). I have a 60 yard range in the back and can shoot consistently well at that distance. I'm 62 now and don't pull more than 60 pounds.The kid next door (young man now) backs up into his yard and shoots consistently well from 80- 100 yards (rhinehart broadhead buck). My grandson who lives with me and been shooting since he was 10 shot his 1st muley at 46 yards when he was 12. He can shoot well to 70 yards. I have seen a handful of deer taken at the 55-65 yard range. The kid next door shot a nice elk at 104 yards this year. IIMHO it is ethical for him to shoot that far. Not saying everyone should, but some can.



I can shoot 104 yards all day long with accuracy either with field points or broad heads....and I do not believe it to be ‘ethical’ to be taking that long of a shot on game.
My point is, I think you’ve missed the point.

It’s not about the abilities of the archer.
That’s the reason, imo... how guys with mega talent like Tim Wells are still slob hunters.
There are to many variables in long shots to consistently and ‘ethically’ make them...despite the abilities of the archer.


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## fap1800 (Aug 9, 2004)

I shot my spike in the flats in WY last year at 62 yards. I had practiced long distances leading up to the season and was consistently accurate when practicing at 60, but that's a target. Not an animal. I run a 5 pin and 60 is my max. I normally try to keep my shot to 40 and under back east for whitetails and the majority of my shots over the years have been inside that limit plenty. That being said, I took the shot at the bull. He was feeding in a shallow creek bed and the closest I could get was to a berm. He was perfectly broadside, head behind a large sage, completely unaware and the wind was tame. I took my time, got my nerves in check, drew, anchored and settled. But, looking back and to be perfectly honest, I don't know if I would take that shot again even though I popped him in the heart. Did I get lucky? I dunno, but I don't want take the chance.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

spike camp said:


> That’s the reason, imo... how guys with mega talent like Tim Wells are still slob hunters.
> There are to many variables in long shots to consistently and ‘ethically'.


pretty much exactly my thoughts. your skill and self belief has no control over what happens during the flight of an arrow. I have personally witnessed deer and elk moving pretty far when an arrow is in flight, that is why my beliefs are what they are. I have seen it more than once, and have seen it with completely unaware game.

it's not worth it, a big part of how I view a successful hunt is the actual execution of the shot. i'm happier making a perfect shot on a spike bull vs a marginal shot on a really big bull. it seems some are so selfish and care so much about antlers, they will do anything to get them.


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## HuntOutdoors! (Jun 27, 2016)

This place and some of its people never change ..!


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## I SKUNKED YOU (May 20, 2003)

Over 300 yards 300win mag.😁


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## john197244 (Oct 9, 2017)

I took a deer last year with a bowtech RPM360 70 lbs at 52 yards. complete pass through, he ran 40 yards and fell asleep


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

And deer/elk never move far enough to ruin a well placed shot at 20 yards...


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

I SKUNKED YOU said:


> Over 300 yards 300win mag.&#55357;&#56833;


How can you live with yourself?


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

7thgenmt said:


> And deer/elk never move far enough to ruin a well placed shot at 20 yards...


No one ever said they don’t, it’s called hunting.

The point is ( As it seems you’ve somehow not grasped it yet) with long distance shots, there is a much greater chance of something (anything) going wrong which inherently makes long shots less ‘ethical’.

You’re a slob hunter, just accept it and move on.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

With your limited experience(with long range shots) I guess its easy for you to jump to that conclusion.I have had more game "jump the string" at 20 yards and under than at 40 and over....your an inexperienced know it all,accept it and move on.


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

7thgenmt said:


> With your limited experience(with long range shots) I guess its easy for you to jump to that conclusion.I have had more game "jump the string" at 20 yards and under than at 40 and over....your an inexperienced know it all,accept it and move on.


Are ya?


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

7thgenmt said:


> With your limited experience(with long range shots) I guess its easy for you to jump to that conclusion.I have had more game "jump the string" at 20 yards and under than at 40 and over....your an inexperienced know it all,accept it and move on.


I thought we were on your ignore list!! haha.... you must log off just so you can read our responses:wink:

I will say, the couple people I have met in person that bragged about taking long shots were complete doughballs, so like I said, they are no real threat to game populations, I guess that's the silver lining here.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

7thgenmt said:


> With your limited experience(with long range shots) I guess its easy for you to jump to that conclusion.I have had more game "jump the string" at 20 yards and under than at 40 and over....your an inexperienced know it all,accept it and move on.


If you’re referring to my experience with long range shots on live game, I’ve killed two bulls at 60ish, one at 50 something and another nine or so (bulls and cows) at 50 and under.

If you saw my home range, you’d tinkle yourself.
Most of what I practice is broadheads at long range (135 yard max), with steep shots on multiple Elk,Moose and Bear targets in steep ravine mountain settings.

One thing I am definitely not, is inexperienced.


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## Teemster (Jul 11, 2014)

“My d!(k is bigger”....”nuh uh, mine is”


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

Teemster said:


> “My d!(k is bigger”....”nuh uh, mine is”


Replace the "Richard" with "brain..."
you'd be closer to correct.


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## boiler room (Oct 26, 2003)

https://youtu.be/qUtar4U9vIY

Thi's video is proof that there are individuals out there that can just flat out shoot. That shot is at 105 yards on a moving turkey. I have seen people wound and miss turkeys at 15-20 yards. I believe that there are plenty of people out there, that are so good and practice so much, that a 70-100 yard shot for them is better than most people's 30 yards. And to judge them based on your on confidence or ability is wrong. Do some people take pop shots on animals yes, is that wrong, yes I believe so. But if you consistently practice at long distances and are confident at that distance then go for it. You are doing nothing different than the guy that practices at 30 to only stretch his limits to 30. If you practice at 100 yards and can shoot very well than what is 70 or 80. Fact is many will not put the time in so they will flame others based on there abilities.


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

He seemed quite surprised when he actually hit that turkey. Strange.... almost like he expected to miss.
That's the reaction you'd expect from someone that was just launching a "50/50, who cares... it's just a turkey," type of shot... possibly, to promote a new sight.
What the hell... if he wounded it, it's a simple matter of never showing the video to anyone.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

boiler room said:


> https://youtu.be/qUtar4U9vIY
> 
> Thi's video is proof that there are individuals out there that can just flat out shoot. That shot is at 105 yards on a moving turkey. I have seen people wound and miss turkeys at 15-20 yards. I believe that there are plenty of people out there, that are so good and practice so much, that a 70-100 yard shot for them is better than most people's 30 yards. And to judge them based on your on confidence or ability is wrong. Do some people take pop shots on animals yes, is that wrong, yes I believe so. But if you consistently practice at long distances and are confident at that distance then go for it. You are doing nothing different than the guy that practices at 30 to only stretch his limits to 30. If you practice at 100 yards and can shoot very well than what is 70 or 80. Fact is many will not put the time in so they will flame others based on there abilities.



The longer the shot, the more things that can go wrong...most of which are out of the archers control.

For that reason, the slob hunter taking ‘pop shots’ is on a much more level playing field with guys like Dudley than you realize.


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## boiler room (Oct 26, 2003)

To each there own I guess there are many different opinions. Everyone has there own comfort zone. A guy with a little bit of buck fever, shooting at 25 yards, is far more dangerous than a good calm excellent shooter shooting at 70 yards.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

The record for the record is a Cuban general at over a mile.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

da white shoe said:


> He seemed quite surprised when he actually hit that turkey. Strange.... almost like he expected to miss.
> That's the reaction you'd expect from someone that was just launching a "50/50, who cares... it's just a turkey," type of shot... possibly, to promote a new sight.
> What the hell... if he wounded it, it's a simple matter of never showing the video to anyone.


exactly.

anyone here see the video of Tim Wells shooting that wolf that was walking fast at 150ish yds? that was the most insane archery shot I have ever seen, he is one of the more talented archers on earth, but do you think he would make that shot 8 out of 10 times even? I don't. do you think he was concerned wounding that wolf? for sure not.

Tim has more raw talent, and seems to judge "body language" of game really well, but he still takes very irresponsible shots. I would like to see his unedited hunting career, I have no doubts his percentage of lost game isn't terrible, but I bet it's at a level most would consider unacceptable. he is good enough to have a nearly flawless percentage, but he takes a ton of risky shots, and you see when someone does make a bad shot, he isn't very concerned, and shoots big game with blow guns, etc.

his main goal is not a quick clean kill, even though he has the ability, he sacrifices that aspect of archery hunting to showcase his crazy skill, which is unfortunate. lots of his stuff makes me cringe.

I wish stuff like that wasn't on TV, because hunting on TV does represent us as hunters, and many of us don't want to be represented that way. I want the quickest and cleanest kill I can get, and the further out you shoot, the more you are putting it in the hands of things you have no control of, and that isn't responsible.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

What video?

:zip:

:lol:


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

boiler room said:


> To each there own I guess there are many different opinions. Everyone has there own comfort zone. A guy with a little bit of buck fever, shooting at 25 yards, is far more dangerous than a good calm excellent shooter shooting at 70 yards.


that is what it means to be responsible, knowing your limitations, and not exceeding them. at some point, no matter your skill, the limitations are out of your control, game can move, and move a long ways while the arrow is in flight, no matter how skilled the archer is.

you have pointed out there are more than one kind of slob hunter, a risky shot is a risky shot. some people don't shoot their bow enough and shouldn't be hunting with a bow.... some do shoot their bow enough, and let their shooting skill go to their head and take shots they shouldn't, one is a good archer, but both are "slob hunters"

a little buck fever can be overcome by shooting your bow enough, I know that for a fact.


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## hawkdriver55 (Sep 6, 2010)

Dude....you must live in the land of no trees and flat terrain. NO way I would sling an arrow at an animal that far. Longest shot on an animal was a deer at 35 yards across a creek. (double lunged it) Longest 3 shot group on a target was this 100 yard challenge.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

good shooting hawkdriver! you should be good to hunt to 150 yds:wink: 

we will see what the future of my Triax holds, but my Rytera Alien X has been my best shooting bow to date. not sure what is was about that bow, but it sure was forgiving for me to shoot. I often consider buying another, very under rated bow imo


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## boiler room (Oct 26, 2003)

roosiebull said:


> that is what it means to be responsible, knowing your limitations, and not exceeding them. at some point, no matter your skill, the limitations are out of your control, game can move, and move a long ways while the arrow is in flight, no matter how skilled the archer is.
> 
> you have pointed out there are more than one kind of slob hunter, a risky shot is a risky shot. some people don't shoot their bow enough and shouldn't be hunting with a bow.... some do shoot their bow enough, and let their shooting skill go to their head and take shots they shouldn't, one is a good archer, but both are "slob hunters"
> 
> a little buck fever can be overcome by shooting your bow enough, I know that for a fact.


Sir, game move all the time at 25 yards do a search on deer jumping the string you will see hundreds of video's of missed and wounded deer. I'm not making an excuse but they won't generally here the shot as well at 90 yards once again I'm not make excuses. Just pointing out that they move at all distances. I'm not saying there my be some more room for error at long distance there can be. But if someone has done there part, and spent countless hours perfecting there craft, then I certainly believe in opening your window of distance. Just for info I'm sure I know people that have wounded more animals at 20 yards than Tim Wells has wounded in his whole life. And also buck fever or some target panic is not cured by just shooting your bow many time's the more you shoot the worse it gets. There are many steps that have to be taken not just more, and more, shooting.

Sir, do you drive over the speed limit? ? Speed limits are in place for everyone's safety yours and others. Next time your driving look down at your speed. If your 10 mphs over your taking a chance. But then again you probably think your a great driver and have full control being over the speed limit. Some may say you would be a "SLOB " yourself just in another way that you don't even think of.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

the longer the arrow is in the air, the further they can move. if you are concerned with one jumping the string at 25 yds, it seems there would be no way you would consider shooting one at 70+yds with your knowledge of that.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

Tim is good but Sydnie should be my future ex wife. 


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Deer stand very still often.....:wink:

Tim Wells is Da man......almost in the same league as The Hood.


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

hawkdriver55 said:


> Dude....you must live in the land of no trees and flat terrain. NO way I would sling an arrow at an animal that far. Longest shot on an animal was a deer at 35 yards across a creek. (double lunged it) Longest 3 shot group on a target was this 100 yard challenge.


You need to move your pin down a tad or hold higher.


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## hawkdriver55 (Sep 6, 2010)

da white shoe said:


> You need to move your pin down a tad or hold higher.


I was aiming at a limb above the target. A simple fixed pin site doesn't have enough adjustment for that distance. I had to bracket the target until I found the sweet spot to aim at above it.


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## fap1800 (Aug 9, 2004)

boiler room said:


> .
> 
> Sir, do you drive over the speed limit? ? Speed limits are in place for everyone's safety yours and others. Next time your driving look down at your speed. If your 10 mphs over your taking a chance. But then again you probably think your a great driver and have full control being over the speed limit. Some may say you would be a "SLOB " yourself just in another way that you don't even think of.


That’s quite the analogy right there. Clearly apples to apples. 



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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I hate slob speeding drivers.....


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

zap said:


> I hate slob speeding drivers.....


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WmVMOr7TIrc


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## boiler room (Oct 26, 2003)

So do I especially the ones that don't obay the 30 yard shooting limit.


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

hawkdriver55 said:


> I was aiming at a limb above the target. A simple fixed pin site doesn't have enough adjustment for that distance. I had to bracket the target until I found the sweet spot to aim at above it.


That's not easy to do. I suppose a slider would be better, but I've always used fixed pins, too... usually, 7 of them. 
I used to shoot at 90yds with my antelope bow... as far as i could get, but it's amazing how dialed in you can get if you have a pin for it.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

hawkdriver55 said:


> Dude....you must live in the land of no trees and flat terrain. NO way I would sling an arrow at an animal that far. Longest shot on an animal was a deer at 35 yards across a creek. (double lunged it) Longest 3 shot group on a target was this 100 yard challenge.


Damn nice 100yd group. 
For fun we were shooting clay pigeons for dollars at 140yds after a 3d tournament. One guy busted 4 or 5 in a row and everyone quit. Haha. 
Bottom line is I’d feel better about some guys shooting at a animal at 60yds than I’d feel about some shooting at 25yds.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I shot a doe at 49-51 yards or so....shot at her left side and the arrow went in her right side. She was standing still but alert as I had just shot one of her group a few minutes earlier. The first one ran off and the rest looked at her like she was nuts and went back to grazing on some grass.

After that I took closer shots..


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

zap said:


> I shot a doe at 49-51 yards or so....shot at her left side and the arrow went in her right side. She was standing still but alert as I had just shot one of her group a few minutes earlier. The first one ran off and the rest looked at her like she was nuts and went back to grazing on some grass.
> 
> After that I took closer shots..


that is pretty crazy!

I shot one elk over 50 yds, it was lazered 54.5yds, it was in a big open clear cut (probably 10 or 11 yrs ago) he was just hanging out feeding, my plan was a spot I had picked out that looked very realistic to sneak to, and ranging that elk, and that bush (and doing a little math even I can do in my head:wink it would put me right at 25 yds, so that was the plan. 

I thought he was all by himself, but I was wrong. I had spotted him about 500 yds away, and had to take the scenic route to get the wind right, but it was all going good. I got to a point, and something caught my eye, slightly left and in front of me, there were 3 cows bedded 10-15 yds from me, I don't know how I got to where I did without them knowing it, but I had.

obviously I knew I was not getting any closer to that bull, and I knew it was an easy enough shot, and he had his head down eating away. I drew back, held my 50yd pin high on his lungs and shot, as I did, he took a little half step just feeding along, and I see him running up the hill with my arrow hanging from him pretty far back and my heart sunk.

I was bummed out and wished I could have taken that shot back. after a bit, I snuck up to see where he was standing to see if there was any blood, and what kind of blood if there was. I looked up and saw him and the cows standing out in the edge of the cut, 134yds away. I was trying to figure out a way to sneak up there and get another arrow in him, but it looked impossible with nervous elk in an open cut, as well as unfavorable wind.

some how, I got lucky as heck and caught the offside lung (which I didn't know or think of seeing where the arrow entered) I couldn't believe it when he got wobbly legged and started staggering around, which spooked the cows, then he went down, got back up, then took a nose dive off of a little hill and stayed down. that was the one experience that made me think long shots were not for me, I saw plain as day how lucky I got, and I can't count on that type of luck. that shot was also about best case scenario to take a long shot as far as how calm that bull was.

I have seen a "few" situations since with good shooters making poor shots on game due to animals moving during the flight of an arrow, pretty straightforward to me, obviously a much higher risk situation, and it's completely out of our control.

out of all the game I have shot and seen shot, inside 30 yds, I have never seen a poor outcome due to animals moving. I know whitetails are notorious for ducking arrows, but it doesn't seem to be a "thing" with blacktails or roosevelts near as much, but they are not stationary targets, and can move, they just don't seem to react to arrows at close range.


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## hawkdriver55 (Sep 6, 2010)

spike camp said:


> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WmVMOr7TIrc


These idiots are why I have a job. Summer will be here soon and I will be picking at least one a week up.


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## 7thgenmt (Sep 13, 2013)

spike camp said:


> If you’re referring to my experience with long range shots on live game, I’ve killed two bulls at 60ish, one at 50 something and another nine or so (bulls and cows) at 50 and under.
> 
> If you saw my home range, you’d tinkle yourself.
> Most of what I practice is broadheads at long range (135 yard max), with steep shots on multiple Elk,Moose and Bear targets in steep ravine mountain settings.
> ...


Soooo. your taking shots that many people would call slob shots,believe it or not there are guys that wont shoot over 20 yards...and your a long range shooting expert....make up your mind man,you cant have it both ways!Your 60 yard elk shots are marginal by most standards and you are ok with them,but my LR deer shots are a no go?Hypocrisy knows no bounds.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

7thgenmt said:


> Soooo. your taking shots that many people would call slob shots,believe it or not there are guys that wont shoot over 20 yards...and your a long range shooting expert....make up your mind man,you cant have it both ways!Your 60 yard elk shots are marginal by most standards and you are ok with them,but my LR deer shots are a no go?Hypocrisy knows no bounds.


Totally off base as usual...
A 60 yard broadside shot on a bull is not even in the same category as your slob frontal 120 yard shot on a doe.
Double the distance and about 1/6 the kill zone.

You knew that, though...so try again.


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## cschwanz (Sep 10, 2012)

Havent read 17 pages of arguing but my longest confirmed kills are:

Bow- 14 yards
ML/Rifle - 70 yards

:dontknow:


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

7thgenmt said:


> Soooo. your taking shots that many people would call slob shots,believe it or not there are guys that wont shoot over 20 yards...and your a long range shooting expert....make up your mind man,you cant have it both ways!Your 60 yard elk shots are marginal by most standards and you are ok with them,but my LR deer shots are a no go?Hypocrisy knows no bounds.


Nothing hypocritical about it, at all.
Spike practices at 130yds... and, limits his shots at game to half that distance.
Sooo... did you practice at 240yds before shooting that 119yds, uninjured, frontal doe?


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## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

I'm starting to understand why quite a few on the western bowhunting section have issues with 7thgenmt. :thumbs_do

Sickens me the shots some will take with a bow, at an uninjured deer, elk, or antelope.


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## azscorpion (Feb 12, 2010)

Ask the US military......head shots over a mile:wink:


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## vichris (Nov 5, 2006)

I haven't read though all of the arguments but my longest kill was 67 yards, in the rain, on a decent 6x7 bull. I was using a Bowtech Tribute back then. I am much more accurate with my current Hoyt setup. I regularly practice out to 80 yards. I WOULD take that same shot again if given the opportunity. 

BTW this is my first post on this sight in several years. Lost my password and took an act of god to get a new one. Glad to be back.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

vichris said:


> I haven't read though all of the arguments but my longest kill was 67 yards, in the rain, on a decent 6x7 bull. I was using a Bowtech Tribute back then. I am much more accurate with my current Hoyt setup. I regularly practice out to 80 yards. I WOULD take that same shot again if given the opportunity.
> 
> BTW this is my first post on this sight in several years. Lost my password and took an act of god to get a new one. Glad to be back.



That a great bull, love the color and character.


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## vichris (Nov 5, 2006)

spike camp said:


> That a great bull, love the color and character.


Thanks, I think he scored in the 332. Killed that bull back in 2008. 2008 was one of my best bow-hunting years. 

Just a few days before I killed that bull I also killed this 300 lb. black bear. Took the bear at 40 yards. That was the toughest tracking job ever. I had to rely on sweat bees to help me track it.


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