# I can hit a line... but not a dot



## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

I made vertical and horizontal lines on my target for sighting in. From 20 & 30 yards I can hit the line. I however can't hit 1" dot from 20. I'm always low right. Same form... how is it I can hit a thin line but not a large dot? Any takers?

I paper tuned and after adjusting rest, it was shooting bullet holes and clean vane cuts.

I have the hamskea 2nd gen 3rd axis level. It clamps nicely on my sight bracket closest to the riser (only place I can clamp, axcel rheotech hd). Should I align my line of sights with a vertical line or the hamskea tool and why? When I align sights and check with tool, both are way off. I know the sight alignment is good, I check multiple times. I'd think the sight aliment to line would be more accurate than the hamskea tool?


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## Looeden (Feb 25, 2021)

1" dot at 20 is pretty small generally speaking. I would just keep practicing. Probably something with your grip. Shoot a couple sessions in a row and report back.


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## LIBowhunter (Sep 29, 2007)

For some reason it easier to shoot at a line for me too. Thats how I tune my bows. I shoot at lines until I get both horizontal and vertical just right. After all that is done I shoot spots


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## VeritasHunter (May 4, 2020)

I find it easier to hit a kill shot on a 3D target than a dot on a paper target. Give me an animal target and I have no issues, make it a dot and it seems to be more pressure.


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Hmm OK. I'll keep trying! I paper tuned at about 6 feet. The bare shaft I can get to group with my fletched. I shoot the vertical line and it's on. I shoot at the dot and it's low right. Makes zero sense!


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## VeritasHunter (May 4, 2020)

suzukigs750ez said:


> Hmm OK. I'll keep trying! I paper tuned at about 6 feet. The bare shaft I can get to group with my fletched. I shoot the vertical line and it's on. I shoot at the dot and it's low right. Makes zero sense!


Could very easily be a brain thing. Find a target with the picture of a deer, and then try to place a kill shot. focus on an area, rather than a small spot. It could simply be your form of target panic.


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## Crowely (Dec 20, 2020)

What you see is an interpretation your brain makes of an image projected on the back of your eye. Then you're brain directs the bodies motor movements. Between individuals,lighting,color, different days,level of target...weird things can happen. Staying in the 10 ring on a Vegas target at 20 is a daunting task somedays. And on a lot of target sights you may make a practice shot or two...then make a couple click's on your sight for that day to accommodate the lighting and the way your shooting that day. Shooting the lines both vertical and horizontal is a good way to set it up. Then you just have to practice and figure out somethings about yourself,and the equipment.

Standing on a line at 20 and trying to put that arrow in a quarter is almost a single thing alone to work on.

Taking a target and setting it down. Then walk to 20 and fire, then 30, then 40, then 35,then back to 20, then 25,then 23 then 34, then 42....and having each of those shots be pretty accurate....is another.

Work on both. But if you are not really into indoor target but more hunting and maybe 3D. The second is way more important.


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## The Bow Show (Nov 4, 2020)

could just be a mind thing, just as long as you can hit any target be that a line dot or animal target then ur sweet, but also depending what your goal is in archery, if you wish to shoot indoor targets then i would get practicing straight away or if you want to hunt practice on animal targets and 3d targets. keep trying tho and good luck


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## [email protected] (Dec 3, 2017)

Right brain vs left brain. Just let the pin float and be smooth on the shot and release. you try and force and aim a dot like a line ….boom….she gone


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## Just David (Sep 16, 2020)

I was having a problem shooting slightly high and left; made a change to my grip seems to have helped.


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Omitting my form, i'm going to run down what i've done to the bow and see if it sounds ok to you guys.

I replaced cables and string. I twisted cables up until brace, ATA and draw weight were all perfectly in spec. The bow is a Mathews V3 31. Next, i put the string on, no twists, specs are still in.
i tied a soft nock at 90 degrees to the rest (rest was at 0 elevation, 0 windage, which puts it at 13/16 off riser) and installed D loop.
Checked timing, both stops hit the cable perfectly.
Arrow rest falls within 1" of let down
Shot a bunch of arrows and installed peep sight, served in when it was good with my form.
Adjusted second and third axis. Second axis was set with hamskea 2ndgenpro third axis tool. I clamped to string, leveled the bow, clamped it down to a level counter surface (i don't have a bow vise), checked level. Then clamped it to the sight mounting bracket on my axcel rheotech HD, which it only has one place on the entire sight i can clamp the level to. I set my second axis. I then taped a string to the ceiling and had a screwdriver at the bottom for a plum bob. I lined up my 5 sights in a row on the string and looked at the sight level for third axis. Third axis was off. I adjusted until it was in-between the two level lines. Checked a few times and as long as the top and bottom sight were in line, it was on.
Shot bow through paper at about 6 or 7 feet and adjusted for nock high tear. Adjusted a bit left and now we're in shooting "bullets".

Went outside to shoot and there in lies the issue i described above with me being off.


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## wrxified (Jul 15, 2021)

My guess is the 1" dot is causing target panic and you're slapping the trigger.


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## hobbs4421 (May 20, 2006)

VeritasHunter said:


> I find it easier to hit a kill shot on a 3D target than a dot on a paper target. Give me an animal target and I have no issues, make it a dot and it seems to be more pressure.


Same here! Maybe just trained and programed to kill/hunt and not to shoot paper


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

wrxified said:


> My guess is the 1" dot is causing target panic and you're slapping the trigger.


That was a thought of mine as well. I wanted to make sure before i dive in and focus on what i'm doing instead of instinctively shooting my setup process was sound.

Should i use sights or hamskea third axis tool to setup?

The blue area is the only area i can clamp the third axis tool to. I have it on the side of the sight window.


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## wrxified (Jul 15, 2021)

hobbs4421 said:


> Same here! Maybe just trained and programed to kill/hunt and not to shoot paper


My son is the same way. We were shooting at 30 yards this weekend. He’s grouping his shots like waypoints on a treasure map. I went inside and grabbed a bag of apples. Set one on top of the target. He destroyed it on the first shot. Then he proceeded to hit an apple 4 out of his next 6 shots.


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## JoshuaHunter (Aug 25, 2021)

you need to keep practicing with time you will perfect your Aim. my advice is take your time before shooting.


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Sounds good. So nothing in my tuning/setup process sounds off? I just want to make sure i set the bow up properly and then i'll know it's me for sure. Also, is paper tuning all i really need to get to a point where i can sight in?


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## Looeden (Feb 25, 2021)

Paper tuning is just the start. I don't completely rely on it. Just gets me in the ball park. After paper tuning I bareshaft tune at 10-20 yards. This will tell you what you need. At least that's what I do.


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Looeden said:


> Paper tuning is just the start. I don't completely rely on it. Just gets me in the ball park. After paper tuning I bareshaft tune at 10-20 yards. This will tell you what you need. At least that's what I do.


So, i shoot a fletched arrow into the target and then shoot a bare shaft at that same spot at 20 and 30 yards? Adjust the rest so the bare shaft hits the fletched and when that's accomplished i'm all set?


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## Looeden (Feb 25, 2021)

On a high level - yes. It depends how far/the difference between your two arrows. Are you able to shoot both and post a picture?


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Looeden said:


> On a high level - yes. It depends how far/the difference between your two arrows. Are you able to shoot both and post a picture?


Yes, i'll be shooting later today. Both times i shot the pair yesterday the bare shaft was low right, but within 1/2" of the fletched. At one point the bare shaft took a vane off the fletched arrow.


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## Looeden (Feb 25, 2021)

Awesome, also let us know your arrow length (carbon to carbon), draw length, draw weight, arrow insert weight, and arrow point weight. Doesn't sound like you're to far off but those could be a slight factor when determining a solution.


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Arrow length: 27.5"
Draw length: i have 28 inch mods, does that make it 28"?
draw weight: 70.4lb
Arrow insert weight: 16 grain
Arrow point weight: 100 grain


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## Looeden (Feb 25, 2021)

suzukigs750ez said:


> Arrow length: 27.5"
> Draw length: i have 28 inch mods, does that make it 28"?
> draw weight: 70.4lb
> Arrow insert weight: 16 grain
> Arrow point weight: 100 grain


One last question. What arrows are you shooting and spine of said arrows?


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Easton FMJ 5MM 340 spine


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

suzukigs750ez said:


> Omitting my form, i'm going to run down what i've done to the bow and see if it sounds ok to you guys.
> 
> I replaced cables and string. I twisted cables up until brace, ATA and draw weight were all perfectly in spec. The bow is a Mathews V3 31. Next, i put the string on, no twists, specs are still in.
> i tied a soft nock at 90 degrees to the rest (rest was at 0 elevation, 0 windage, which puts it at 13/16 off riser) and installed D loop.
> ...


Did u check 3rd axis at FULL DRAW, while pointing the arrow hard downhill?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

suzukigs750ez said:


> So, i shoot a fletched arrow into the target and then shoot a bare shaft at that same spot at 20 and 30 yards? Adjust the rest so the bare shaft hits the fletched and when that's accomplished i'm all set?








Two fletched and one bareshaft at 20 yards.



Two fletched and one bareshaft at 30 yards.

NOW u are tuned. Not until you can do this.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

suzukigs750ez said:


> Arrow length: 27.5"
> Draw length: i have 28 inch mods, does that make it 28"?
> draw weight: 70.4lb
> Arrow insert weight: 16 grain
> Arrow point weight: 100 grain


Nope, not necessarily.



10 yards. Sheet of cardboard in front of target. DRaw a sharpie pen cross hair. Use roll of duct tape, to make a heavy circle you can see. Use 20 yd sight pin. Fire the bareshaft. Pull it out. Label hole as "bareshaft". Then fire a fletched arrow. If the two holes are not side by side, within 1/16th inch...the 28" draw module is not the correct size for you, and try a different draw module. FIND the draw module size that gives you groups THIS tight.


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## Thestudent (Nov 8, 2018)

suzukigs750ez said:


> I made vertical and horizontal lines on my target for sighting in. From 20 & 30 yards I can hit the line. I however can't hit 1" dot from 20. I'm always low right. Same form... how is it I can hit a thin line but not a large dot? Any takers?
> 
> I paper tuned and after adjusting rest, it was shooting bullet holes and clean vane cuts.
> 
> I have the hamskea 2nd gen 3rd axis level. It clamps nicely on my sight bracket closest to the riser (only place I can clamp, axcel rheotech hd). Should I align my line of sights with a vertical line or the hamskea tool and why? When I align sights and check with tool, both are way off. I know the sight alignment is good, I check multiple times. I'd think the sight aliment to line would be more accurate than the hamskea tool?


That's called target panic. Has absolutely nothing to do with your equipment and everything to do with your mind. there is no way it could be equipment if your only experiencing the issue when you switch targets. I'm guessing from personal experience you start felling anxiety when trying to hit that small dot and not the line. it happens to me when I focus on the target instead of my pin. focus on the process and pin not the target. Trust your pin float instead of trying to be rock solid. And start big and work smaller on your circles. Works for me


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

nuts&bolts said:


> Did u check 3rd axis at FULL DRAW, while pointing the arrow hard downhill?


Yes I did


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

suzukigs750ez said:


> Yes I did


Fire two fletched and one bareshaft at a dot, 20 yards away. Take photo of all 3 arrows.


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## wrxified (Jul 15, 2021)

I would say focus on the target and not the pin. The pin should be blurry and you need a clear view of the target. Line up the shot and practice a smooth trigger pull.


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Thestudent said:


> That's called target panic. Has absolutely nothing to do with your equipment and everything to do with your mind. there is no way it could be equipment if your only experiencing the issue when you switch targets. I'm guessing from personal experience you start felling anxiety when trying to hit that small dot and not the line. it happens to me when I focus on the target instead of my pin. focus on the process and pin not the target. Trust your pin float instead of trying to be rock solid. And start big and work smaller on your circles. Works for me


Everybody in this thread, thank you. What I ended up doing was bare shaft tuning. I got them tight. During that time, I focused on my release. What I was doing was holding the release with my 3 fingers, anchoring with my thumb and triggering with the side of my finger. What I'm doing now is letting go with my 3 fingers and slowly pulling back with a hooked finger and letting the pressure set the release. Night and day difference. I was hitting like I did before I took time off from archery. It showed in the bare shaft and also in target placement. Both arrows are pointing the same direction and touching 50% of the time. I'm happy where I'm at and will continue to work on it.


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

wrxified said:


> I would say focus on the target and not the pin. The pin should be blurry and you need a clear view of the target. Line up the shot and practice a smooth trigger pull.


That I do. I'm not a beginning archer but took some years off and am slowly having those "oh yeah, I remember that" out "oh, that feels right now! "Moments


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

this is when I started to get things together. I didn't take any photos of the better groupings, I was having too much fun lol


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## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

Definitely mental/visual. Chances are you can see the line on both sides or above and below the pin. Once you move to the dot you have to cover it up with the pin. I tend to struggle with 3D targets over paper targets because with a paper target, I can confirm my pin is on the X. When shooting 3D I’m usually shooting at an area or a very small feature and I feel like I’m “losing it” as I execute. That makes me hold low or drive by 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Amykins753 (Aug 25, 2021)

Sounds like a simple brain trick. The reason you can hit the lines is because your brain only has to focus on one thing… either vertical or horizontal but when you try to aim for a circle your brain now has to focus on both the vertical and horizontal at the same time… I would agree with others and try a picture or animal target and see where that leads you. Might help you narrow the issue down


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## Mortis Sagittas (Nov 29, 2021)

It's funny what the mind does. I shoot circles around dots and circles but if I draw a vertical and horizontal line together I can hit where they meet 4 out 5 times at 15yds. Circles just don't compute for me when aiming.


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## suzukigs750ez (Jun 3, 2021)

Mortis Sagittas said:


> It's funny what the mind does. I shoot circles around dots and circles but if I draw a vertical and horizontal line together I can hit where they meet 4 out 5 times at 15yds. Circles just don't compute for me when aiming.


I do fine hunting though! I think my mind scatters when I have a large area and my mind assumes as long as I hit in the circle I’m good. But the other part of my mind wants precision… so dots and lines are thin and I can aim at a precise spot.


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## Mortis Sagittas (Nov 29, 2021)

suzukigs750ez said:


> I do fine hunting though! I think my mind scatters when I have a large area and my mind assumes as long as I hit in the circle I’m good. But the other part of my mind wants precision… so dots and lines are thin and I can aim at a precise spot.


Yup that is kind of it too. It just seems to be circles. I swear it feels like my inherent guidance just won't line up. 
I don't use a sight so I depend on my brain knowing my bow and arrow setup. A circle just ruins the precision my mind is really able to do.


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## NockTuner77 (Feb 7, 2021)

My vote is for mental game….I am capable of shooting a 4” group at 100yds on occasion, which is shooting at a 3” bullesye, but can’t break 296 w 18xs indoors….rarely am I through the 2nd end before I drop a 9😎…..it’s the panic, doesn’t seem to affect me the same way shooting 3D😂😂🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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