# Don't judge South Africa because CECIL'S got shot



## Mauritian (Sep 30, 2014)

*Don't judge South Africa because CECIL got shot*

I got the idea for this thread from the previous thread in the South African section.
Cecil was killed in Zimbabwe, not in South Africa or any other African country. I hope that this one event doesn't stop
American hunting tourist from coming to Africa. The driving force in the conservation of the continents wildlife is the income received from hunting.
Without it, many of the species would be greatly reduced or probably disappear altogether. 
I don't know the exact numbers but am pretty sure that the income from hunting far outweighs the income from photo safaris or any other attractions in Africa.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

Seems to me that one of the major problems with the whole "Cecil" thing is that most US folks don't realize that Africa is a continent, not a country. They seem to think that Zimbabwe and the RSA are more like Texas and Colorado rather than like the US and Mexico. 

I don't, and probably never will, know just how it all went down. My limited experience in the RSA tells me that the client probably never knew where he was and what had taken place. My guess is that the PH said " there's a very nice one. Why don't you take him?". Best I understand the client was shooting a crossbow. Probably had a low magnification scope. I doubt that he was even aware of the collar in the ruff. When the PH says "shoot", you tend to do just that. 

Seems to me that the situation was in the control of the PH -- who, as best I understand, is now jailed. Easy for me to understand that the hunter may, or, may not have been involved in the shenanigans. 

The saddest part is that very day some Muslim fanatics were probably involved in the deaths of dozens of homicides while in the US probably dozens (or hundreds) of abortions took place. There seems to be some mis-placed priorities. 

Without sport hunting some African nations will loose a tremendous amount of revenue and the biggest loosers will be the wildlife. Without the revenue from sport hunting the poachers will be the ruling class. 

It sickens me.


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## Mauritian (Sep 30, 2014)

BBjavelina,
You're probably right on about the situation.
The other big loosers will definitely be the people who work in the hunting and related industries.
That's a bunch of jobs.
Hopefully the damage will be limited to Zimbabwe only and not the rest of the Pro hunting countries.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Keeping my money in the U.S.A. 

Not going to spent even 1 cent for hunting in Zimbabwe or visit Zimbabwe as a tourist.

U.S.A. hunters should all boycott hunting in Zimbabwe in protest!


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## Warpst0ne (Sep 17, 2014)

I will still hunt Africa some day, probably not a lion since by the time I get there it will still be out of my price range.

It's an unfortunate downward spiral of our society, that more people care about a lion than other humans etc. Maybe IS needs that kind of PR, give a jihadist a cute name and make people sorry for him on the internet and the sheeple will turn in favor of them.

I also feel sorry for the villages that will lose out on work/food etc. All because some people living in their moms basement are up in arms about an animal that would not think twice about having them for dinner given the opportunity.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

Mauritian said:


> BBjavelina,
> You're probably right on about the situation.
> The other big loosers will definitely be the people who work in the hunting and related industries.
> That's a bunch of jobs.
> Hopefully the damage will be limited to Zimbabwe only and not the rest of the Pro hunting countries.


You're surely right about the folks working in hunting and related industries. 

Seems that the damage has started to grow worldwide already, what with the airlines banning/limiting trophy shipments. 

I'm not holding my breath until the world comes to it's senses.


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## firehuntfish (May 17, 2009)

BBJ & WarpstOne, well stated....

What most folks don't realize is that there are many African countries with South Africa leading the pack that have their priorities straight when it comes to hunting and the multitude of benefits the hunting industry brings to the economies and well being of the people. Over 80% of the hunting clientele visiting Africa are Americans. The governments and the people appreciate your business and your dollars. You will not find warmer, more welcoming and accommodating hosts than those folks who operate hunting & touring associated businesses in Southern Africa. 

Zimbabwe is an unfortunate victim here. What once was a premier African safari destination has been destroyed in recent years. The Mugabe government is a communist dictatorship more corrupt than any in recent history. Mugabe has already run out or killed off most of the white Africans who owned businesses and land in that country. His regime is also responsible for countless black Africa genocidal murders throughout the continent for decades.... The tragedies of Zimbabwe were present long before anyone every heard of Cecil. It truly is a shame what has and continues to happen there. Mugabe is holding back an entire people from prospering from their immense natural resources. 

Regardless, I am just about 3 weeks away from my 5th trip back to South Africa. My wife and I continue to return because we have yet to find another destination that offers the quality accommodation, variety, and opportunity for the value you get for your money in a hunting vacation. I always encourage anyone who can to make the trip over at least once in your lifetime.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

NOT GOING TO AFRICA NOW ! had a trip planned for next year> Cancelled< I will boycott all of Africa !


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## firehuntfish (May 17, 2009)

Pete53 said:


> NOT GOING TO AFRICA NOW ! had a trip planned for next year> Cancelled< I will boycott all of Africa !


Great! More for me!!


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

Pete53 said:


> NOT GOING TO AFRICA NOW ! had a trip planned for next year> Cancelled< I will boycott all of Africa !


That's like saying you'd boycott Canada because of something the took place in Mexico. Help me understand your reasoning.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

here`s the problem with Africa for many of us sure it costs a few bucks to go but now with airline problems,media, and now if a person spends that kind of money and time , will you get what you paid for ? as far as I am concerned let`s quit giving all of africa food ,clothes,military help and medical help. Africa should be ashamed of what Africa did to the Minnesota dentist ! trust is gone with that country> AFRICA < ! refund the the dentist and give the dentist his lion hide and skull back first ,then maybe some of us will reconsider going !


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

IF ppl are going to boycott SA cause a lion was poached then they should not hunt in the USA also since deer, elk, moose, bear, and every animal is poached here also everyday.

I'm planning another trip to SA as I type, when I was in SA in 2012 there was a cat poached on the outfitters place and I tell you what I thought they would of killed that poacher if they caught them!


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

Pete53 said:


> here`s the problem with Africa for many of us sure it costs a few bucks to go but now with airline problems,media, and now if a person spends that kind of money and time , will you get what you paid for ? as far as I am concerned let`s quit giving all of africa food ,clothes,military help and medical help. Africa should be ashamed of what Africa did to the Minnesota dentist ! trust is gone with that country> AFRICA < ! refund the the dentist and give the dentist his lion hide and skull back first ,then maybe some of us will reconsider going !


Hey, Pete,

I understand your point, but Africa is not a country, it's a continent. Just as there are several countries in N. America, S. America, Europe, and so forth. Each has their own style of government. 

As far as what Africa did to the dentist, I'm not aware that they've done anything --- IDK. 

Seems to me that what has been done to the dentist was done by a wad of bleeding heart liberals (probably mostly from the USA) that don't have a clue how the world really works. 

Best I understand, the lion was not killed on the preserve. The only thing keeping him from leaving the preserve was a set of railroad tracks. He was baited (pretty common on cats) , and the actions after the kill don't reflect well on the PH, who I understand is now in jail. 

I have not seen anything to indicate whether or not the hunter was aware of all the circumstances. It's very possible that he was not aware of all that went on. When the PH says "shoot", that's generally what you do. Apparently he didn't make a great shot, but it makes me wonder how I'd do on dangerous game.

I've only made three trips to the COUNTRY of South Africa, so my experience is not that great. But, this I can promise you, if you do the proper research on outfitters you can have exactly the type hunt that you desire. 

As for the airlines --- they had a knee-jerk reaction based on all the publicity. What I believe will happen, and so quietly that you'll never hear of it, is that they will slowly revert back to the old way of business. They are in the business of making profits for their shareholders.

Give it a little thought and tell me if I'm making any sense.


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## Mauritian (Sep 30, 2014)

I don't think that the American dentist has any problems in Zimbabwe, there is no way that they'll extradite him anyhow. The PH and land owner do as they should.
His biggest problem is the media in the US that basically messed up his business. Even then, i bet most of his patients will slowly come back
as the heat dies down. 
As for hunting in the other African countries that are "hunter friendly" like RSA and Namibia, they are still in full swing.
The service and accommodations are as good as ever and the hunting is even better.
I'll be back in 6 weeks.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

Just read what appeared to be a newspaper article that was posted on another site.

It stated that the shot was made 2.5 kilometers from the park boundary. It also said that they had found an Elephant that had died of natural causes and set up a blind at the sight. 

Further, that it is not illegal to shoot collared game as long as the collar is turned in, and that was done. The first reports I read said that the collar had been destroyed. 

The more I read, the less I think I know. But, my gut tells me that this whole episode has been blown even further out of proportion than I thought possible.


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## firehuntfish (May 17, 2009)

The only thing for certain out of this entire mess is that the anti's and the bunny huggers won... They are sitting back munching on kale wringing their soft little hands with delight over the amount of damage that they have inflicted to the international hunting culture while we all stood by and watched... They have achieved their ultimate goal of divide and conquer by getting hunters to lash out against other hunters all based on utter BS...! 

From my own knowledge and experience that I have with Africa, I don't ever recall hearing more misinformation, misrepresentations, and flat out lies about African hunting and lion hunting in particular. I always knew what the other side was capable of, but what surprised me is how easily and readily we attacked each other instead of proudly defending our hunting lifestyle and God Given right to hunt. Another big surprise was the apologetic and shameful stance many hunters have taken.... Not to mention the complete and utter silence by the biggest hunting conservation groups to which I am an now an embarrassed and disappointed member. 

The future of hunting is uncertain at best... Not so sure this one will just blow over especially considering how we imploded as a group. This should be our wake-up call if it's not already too late..


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## Mauritian (Sep 30, 2014)

firehuntfish said:


> The only thing for certain out of this entire mess is that the anti's and the bunny huggers won... They are sitting back munching on kale wringing their soft little hands with delight over the amount of damage that they have inflicted to the international hunting culture while we all stood by and watched... They have achieved their ultimate goal of divide and conquer by getting hunters to lash out against other hunters all based on utter BS...!
> 
> From my own knowledge and experience that I have with Africa, I don't ever recall hearing more misinformation, misrepresentations, and flat out lies about African hunting and lion hunting in particular. I always knew what the other side was capable of, but what surprised me is how easily and readily we attacked each other instead of proudly defending our hunting lifestyle and God Given right to hunt. Another big surprise was the apologetic and shameful stance many hunters have taken.... Not to mention the complete and utter silence by the biggest hunting conservation groups to which I am an now an embarrassed and disappointed member.
> 
> The future of hunting is uncertain at best... Not so sure this one will just blow over especially considering how we imploded as a group. This should be our wake-up call if it's not already too late..


Don't worry too much about it. It's bound to blow over like everything else in the news when the next headline comes about.
In fact, i'm pretty sure it's only in the US that its still talked about, and mostly in the hunting community. Most of the world doesn't give 2 s&*^^ about Cecil. 90% of the world anyway. As long as Americans and Europeeans keep hunting in Africa and supporting this aspect of the local economy, you guys will still have somewhere to go hunt . More damage is being done in the US for sure, and the libs will gain ground, unfortunately. 
Lion hunting however does impact all the rest of hunting. Being so sentimental a subject, it becomes politicized at some point.
There are quite a few African pro. hunters who wouldn't might it being illegal s o as to take the pressure off.
May not be a bad idea except for the momentum effect it could have on the libs agenda.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

Mauritian said:


> Don't worry too much about it. It's bound to blow over like everything else in the news when the next headline comes about.
> In fact, i'm pretty sure it's only in the US that its still talked about, and mostly in the hunting community. Most of the world doesn't give 2 s&*^^ about Cecil. 90% of the world anyway. As long as Americans and Europeeans keep hunting in Africa and supporting this aspect of the local economy, you guys will still have somewhere to go hunt . More damage is being done in the US for sure, and the libs will gain ground, unfortunately.
> Lion hunting however does impact all the rest of hunting. Being so sentimental a subject, it becomes politicized at some point.
> There are quite a few African pro. hunters who wouldn't might it being illegal s o as to take the pressure off.
> May not be a bad idea except for the momentum effect it could have on the libs agenda.


You're point is well taken, thing is, it really galls me to give even an inch to those folks. Them, and any other radical group that is devoid of logical thought processes.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

bbjavelina, yes you have made a lot of sense ,but for now I have no trust in that continent Africa. I will continue to defend the dentist I may not know him but he did get a horrible deal from Zimbabwe in Africa so that country does owe him his lion hide and skull back, plus money,if I was that dentist I would never go there again ,Zimbabwe might put him in jail . all hunters,guides should stand strong and force Zimbabwe to give back the hide and skull of that lion back to the dentist in Minnesota then just maybe some trust might come back. we have liberal media trouble a lot in Minnesota with indian rights and wolf protection I don`t think I will ever see that ending anyplace, until maybe liberals get real hungry we all know there just stupid tree huggers.


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