# New speed limit for NFAA, any opinions?



## 2putt4par (Mar 24, 2006)

I know most of you don't shoot 3-D's that are NFAA sanctioned, but we shoot a bunch of them around here. For you guys that do, what do you think about the NFAA going from 280 fps to 300 fps? I was kind of hoping the emphasis on speed would taper off a bit with the bow companies, although just about anything will shoot 300 now days even at moderate draw lengths and weights. I was just wondering if anybody has an opinion on the speed limit increase for NFAA shoots?


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## soonerboy (Sep 6, 2004)

I think it is a good move. Just adjusting to these changing times. Sometimes NFAA has been accused of being too slow when it comes to change.


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## jwcatto (Jul 27, 2006)

I personally think it a bad move. Faster bows just compensate for peoples shortcoming in yardae estimation. 

Someone is going to say that it is hard to slow todays bows down to 280..................less draw weight or more weight on the arrow. Done 

Doesn't really bother me too much though. IBO is a different monster all together.


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

when was this rule changed? Were there anymore rule changes? What about the arrow size rule?


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## 2putt4par (Mar 24, 2006)

The rule was changed at the meeting in Vegas along with the arrow size being set for 
27's as a max size. I'm ok with both, although less ok with the new speed limit. Just wondering what anyone else thought.


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## tequillaeagle (Jul 1, 2007)

what do people mean by 27, 26, and 25 for arrow size? i could understand like 11/16" or .345 but whats a 27?


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

tequillaeagle said:


> what do people mean by 27, 26, and 25 for arrow size? i could understand like 11/16" or .345 but whats a 27?


.422 on the arrow diameter, .425 on the tip diameter. 27 is a generic label for the Easton aluminum 2712's, 26 would be the 2613, etc....


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## tequillaeagle (Jul 1, 2007)

thanks


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## mx614 (Mar 30, 2008)

I personally don't know much about this association however I personally encoraged our state association (the VBA, ie. Virginia bowhunters association) to raise speed limits. My personal move for this is we are a bowhunters club. Most of our members shoot the same bow they hunt with. With a lot of the newer bows on the market suited for hunting you really have to work hard to get them inside of the 280 limit. When this motion was brought befor the board meeting to change from the previous 280 to 315 it was changed by members of the board to have no speed limit what so ever. 
On the other hand I personaly was an archer who shot supper fast bows but was envited to attend the pro-am in gainesville so I bought a bow inside the 280 spec. I found that "speed was my freind" and that I have to work harder to shoot as well as I once did with those speed deamons. 
All this said. I feel that one of 2 thing are soon to happen. Either manufacturers will slow dow on building these speed deamons or we will see more assosiations raise the bar.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I thought 280 fps was good enough. Look around. Most speed bows are short ata. Hope everybody doesn't jump the gun. NFAA rules don't go into effect until June.

And then, the new generation of shooters don't understand what they have to start with. "My bow shoots 320 fps." And then they take their draw weight turned down bow with 28" draw length and 400 gr arrow to the chronograph. Poor kids get their balloon busted.


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## mx614 (Mar 30, 2008)

I agree totally sonny, however take a bow like the 101st it is 37plus ata and a great 3d bow. At 29" and 60 lbs it is easy to get 310 out of it probably not a 400 grain arrow. But with a 9.3 trimmed out for 3d, 350 grain isn't unamagineable. As I said before one of the 2 thing will soon change. Yes you and I look for a longer ata bow to shoot these 3d's with but we are the present shooters of the sport. What will the future hold? I guess we will see. Most likely the 2 of us will be watching fron our easy chairs. I don't think it will happen over night.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

First of all I am a Dot shooter so the speed limit is not such a concern. However doesn't the higher speed make the yardage estimation less critical which distracts from the origional 3D format where range estimation was one of the critical parts of the game? If you take the bowhunter class (release and pin sights) and only have a max yardage of 35 yards what is so special about 3D since these bow shoot so flat most of the guys are not even aiming out of the 12 ring. Whatever happened to 230 FPS and great range estimation. These are just my thoughts.


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

With a 26 1/2 draw its hard for me to get 280 out of the bows I shoot. Old with bad shoulders and elbows. But bring your fast bows on, I'll still whup you with my old slow one. Right Mr. Catto


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

tequillaeagle said:


> what do people mean by 27, 26, and 25 for arrow size? i could understand like 11/16" or .345 but whats a 27?


27/64... :wink:


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## tzoulek (Feb 3, 2008)

*speed limits/yardage limits*

Rules for bowhunter classes should reflect what bowhunters are using. Maybe what needs to be done is increase max yardages as well as the speed limits. Most bowhunters practice to at least 40 if not 50-60 why do we limit it to 35 yard max just so shooters can come in shooting up 10 or 20. Make it a 45 max and those 300 fps arrows start dropping and pin gaps get bigger. Most unsanctioned club shoots I have been to have 40-50 yard shots for the bowhunter class.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

tzoulek said:


> Rules for bowhunter classes should reflect what bowhunters are using. Maybe what needs to be done is increase max yardages as well as the speed limits. Most bowhunters practice to at least 40 if not 50-60 why do we limit it to 35 yard max just so shooters can come in shooting up 10 or 20. Make it a 45 max and those 300 fps arrows start dropping and pin gaps get bigger. Most unsanctioned club shoots I have been to have 40-50 yard shots for the bowhunter class.


Must be nice. The only way we could get people out of the 30 yd Hunter class around here was to make the 40 a money class. All I heard for a couple of years is, "I won't shoot a deer past 30 yds so why do I want to compete past that. I just shoot 3D to get ready for hunting season anyway." What a load. We all know if a 160 class buck steps out at 55 yds, arrows are flying!!!

I have a 27.5" DL on a 54# bow, so speed is not in my corner. My 3D bow is close at 271 but my spot bow won't get close to that. Indoors is <200 fps and outdoors will be about 240ish. I'm not real sure why NFAA felt the need to go that route but it doesn't matter to me. I guess it was for the BHFS guys but I wouldn't want to pull 70# 112 times.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

tequillaeagle said:


> what do people mean by 27, 26, and 25 for arrow size? i could understand like 11/16" or .345 but whats a 27?





reylamb said:


> .422 on the arrow diameter, .425 on the tip diameter. 27 is a generic label for the Easton aluminum 2712's, 26 would be the 2613, etc....


actually not a generic label, its the outside dimater in /64 ths of an inch IE 2512 is 25/64ths (outside diameter) and the last 2 digits is the wall thickness ie .012


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

2putt4par said:


> The rule was changed at the meeting in Vegas along with the arrow size being set for
> 27's as a max size. I'm ok with both, although less ok with the new speed limit. Just wondering what anyone else thought.


Im ok with both also but i would be happier with a ruling for smaller diameter and stay with the 280 rule. I like the challenge and faster and bigger helps the archer out for a slight miss on a shot or a slight miscalculation in yardage. Thats just my opinion, but i dont chronny my bows and drop speed if needed but then again im not even at 300fps.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

I think having a speed rule somewhere in the 280-300fps is good. I think a speed rule puts everyone on even ground. Like every other sport out there, if your 6'7" you can dunk a ball,push guys over and rule the sport. A 6'7" in archery can shoot a very forgiving long A.T.A bow, use fat arrows and still get all kinds of speed. He will allways have an advantage, but it narrows it somewhat with a speed rule. Should be about shooting and yardage estamation---even for the short and tall of things. My 2 cents.


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## N2RCHRY (Feb 12, 2005)

No speed rule has always been my beaf with IBO. How is it fair for a guy with 26 inch draw length, who can't even get 290 out of his bow, shooting against guy 30 and 31 inch draw shooting arrows 340 feet per second. Using one pin out to 40 yrds. Heck, they don't even have to judge critters under 38 yds. Just put the pin in the middle and let er' fly.:sad:
How is that an even playing field?


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## billybobtex (Feb 12, 2009)

I am fairly new to the archery world having picked it up late last summer. I currently am shooting older bows from the mid 80's to early 90's that may go in the mid 200's. This has made me actually take the time to go out to the range and learn my yardage as well as work on form. Some of the guys I shoot with have modern bows that are shooting 310 - 320 and they have poor form that is compensated by the speed. 
Just my opinion, but I think as others have stated speed is taking out the factor of being a good shooter in tournaments today and by increasing the speed limit the associations are making it possible for just about anyone to walk out on the range and score high.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

:thumbs_do ....i want the speed hype to go away, i have a long draw so it benefits me, but i would rather all tournaments be subject to 280 as almost any draw length archer can acheive that mark, thus leveling the playing field a bit more for all competitors!


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> No speed rule has always been my beaf with IBO. How is it fair for a guy with 26 inch draw length, who can't even get 290 out of his bow, shooting against guy 30 and 31 inch draw shooting arrows 340 feet per second. Using one pin out to 40 yrds. Heck, they don't even have to judge critters under 38 yds. Just put the pin in the middle and let er' fly.


 That is impossible .


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## AZBowhunt (Nov 4, 2007)

*Want some cheese?*

Holy crap - when is any sport fair to all the participants? I'm 5-8 and want to play baseball or basketball. Should I be allowed to make sure the defense stays back 3' because I can't shoot over him, or be allowed to use a faster bat 'cause I don't have long arms. There is always going to be someone with an advantage. 

Maybe my bro in law should get rid of his contacts because they make him see better!

Anyways - quit your whining - suck it up and compete the best you can. Not everyone winning these things is 6' 8" with a 32" draw shooting 350 fps. If you want fair - go back to kindergarten!


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## Lien2 (Aug 4, 2005)

I like having a speed limit.

Lien2


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## NDarcher (Oct 27, 2006)

I dont know about anyone else, but i have beaten plenty of other shooters with a setup thats about 250. Its about the skill that an archer has, not about how poor of a judgement one has by compensating with a faster setup. I dont really think that speed increases will affect many of the top shooters and if you are worried about it, go to the range and start practicing.


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## N2RCHRY (Feb 12, 2005)

We're not talkin' team sports here. Maybe pro bowlers should be able to use ANY ball or Tiger should be able to use ANY driver or ANY ball he wants. His competition should just suck it up and practice more. Give me a break.
It would be like Jeff Gordon being limited to 600 horse power and Dale Jr. being allowed to use 750.
ASA has the right idea, 280 fps levels the playing field.


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## N2RCHRY (Feb 12, 2005)

Oh, and one pin to 35-40 is NOT impossible. At 288 FPS my marks are REAL close together. At 330-340 I can only imagine how close they are...


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## la.basscat (Jan 16, 2006)

Hope no one else follows suit.


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## Kill Shill (Sep 23, 2008)

I think they should have a Class specifically for hyper bows. On Arrow diameter, whats next 28s? If 25s werent bad enough?I dont know who needs to be kicked in the head more, arrow manufacturers or the officials that allow them to be shot in competition?


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## ArcheryNut2006 (Dec 5, 2006)

This speed limit change isn't listed in the NFAA site 2009 Agenda items where the rule changes that were voted on in Vegas are listed. The only place I see anything about speed is listed below. Did I miss it someplace?

**************************************************************************************************
Submitted by: Arizona AZ-1
Rationale: The NFAA adopted an across the board speed and maximum poundage limitations. Speed is not a major
issue with NFAA standard indoor and outdoor rounds. The poundage of the bow has more impact. This item is to limit
the bow weight to 60 pounds, as used by NAA, at all rounds except 3-D rounds.
Page 28, Article II, Section A, Para 3
Proposed change:
3. The maximum peak draw weight allowed in NFAA competition except 3-D rounds shall be 60 pounds. On 3-D rounds,
the maximum peak draw weight allowed will be 80 pounds and the maximum speed will be 280 feet per second with a
variance of 3%. Poundage and speed are subject to checking at any time with the on-site equipment.
**************************************************************************************************


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## Josh_Putman (Jun 18, 2004)

N2RCHRY said:


> No speed rule has always been my beaf with IBO. How is it fair for a guy with 26 inch draw length, who can't even get 290 out of his bow, shooting against guy 30 and 31 inch draw shooting arrows 340 feet per second. Using one pin out to 40 yrds. Heck, they don't even have to judge critters under 38 yds. Just put the pin in the middle and let er' fly.:sad:
> How is that an even playing field?


Exactly. That's why I shoot ASA, where quality shot making and judging yardage are the keys to success.


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## gill1 (Jan 20, 2009)

mx614 said:


> I agree totally sonny, however take a bow like the 101st it is 37plus ata and a great 3d bow. At 29" and 60 lbs it is easy to get 310 out of it probably not a 400 grain arrow. But with a 9.3 trimmed out for 3d, 350 grain isn't unamagineable. As I said before one of the 2 thing will soon change. Yes you and I look for a longer ata bow to shoot these 3d's with but we are the present shooters of the sport. What will the future hold? I guess we will see. Most likely the 2 of us will be watching fron our easy chairs. I don't think it will happen over night.


101st 36" axle to axle 60 lbs 29 " draw 295 fps 350 grn. arrow


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## ArcheryNut2006 (Dec 5, 2006)

I guess the website isn't updated yet with all the things voted on in Vegas.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Oh, and one pin to 35-40 is NOT impossible. At 288 FPS my marks are REAL close together


 Not possible without aiming higher or lower on targets. They might have one pin but they are still going to have to judge the distance and know where to put the pin. They are not going to be able to shoot one pin from 0 to 40 yards and put the pin in the center from all the ranges. NOT possible.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Kill Shill said:


> I dont know who needs to be kicked in the head more, arrow manufacturers or the officials that allow them to be shot in competition?


...or the dudes and dudettes using them. :wink:


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## JezR (Dec 14, 2008)

Here in South Africa we shoot up to 300fps (supposedly)! and out to 55+ yards.
Whilst I agree that extra speed will make things slightly easier. We all have so many different setups, arrows, stabilisers etc. It will never be a level playing field unless we all used exactly the same equipment. I have seen that the extra distance makes or breaks a good score. 
If you are just a practicing hunter at these competitions, then don't score your card and shoot whichever targets you want. Then the "unrealistic shots" will not bother you. 
Most of us here in SA seem to be shooting for fun and some competition as this gives us some idea of how much more we need to practice! So increasing to 300fps will just allow more archers to compete with more combinations of equipment. Surley that can't be a bad thing? :wink:


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## N2RCHRY (Feb 12, 2005)

Spotshooter2 said:


> Not possible without aiming higher or lower on targets. They might have one pin but they are still going to have to judge the distance and know where to put the pin. They are not going to be able to shoot one pin from 0 to 40 yards and put the pin in the center from all the ranges. NOT possible.


So are you calling this guy a liar?(PSEMADMAN)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=855058


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## 2putt4par (Mar 24, 2006)

Lots of good converstaion here, even if a few of you did get a little off the subject. Like I said earlier, I'm OK with both rule changes, I just hope this is where they are both going to end. I honestly don't think the arrows need to get any bigger (than 27) or the bows any faster. I'm personally in favor of shortening the shots (3-D) and slowing the bows down and forcing shooters to judge yardage better and make better technical shots. I admit it's because I'm not as good as most when it comes to judging beyond 35 or 40 (bad eyes) and too vain to wear galsses since I'm starting to loose my hair and can't bear to do both at the same time.


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## kosh (Jan 28, 2009)

AZBowhunt said:


> Holy crap - when is any sport fair to all the participants? I'm 5-8 and want to play baseball or basketball. Should I be allowed to make sure the defense stays back 3' because I can't shoot over him, or be allowed to use a faster bat 'cause I don't have long arms. There is always going to be someone with an advantage.
> 
> Maybe my bro in law should get rid of his contacts because they make him see better!
> 
> Anyways - quit your whining - suck it up and compete the best you can. Not everyone winning these things is 6' 8" with a 32" draw shooting 350 fps. If you want fair - go back to kindergarten!


i concur its an ever changing world and sports change everyday you need to adjust to the rules dont like the changes then quit


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