# 2613's in NFAA



## dbowhunterman (Feb 11, 2007)

Are 2613's going to be allowed this year?


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

YES!!! as well as the new 3414 made by who I can't say, you all will have to wait and see....:zip: Don't get carried away it was only a Joke I think!!!


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

The new Easton 4409 shafts will be out any day now. These are to be almost 69 caliber at 0.6875".

The 09 wall thickness is just an average because the wall thickness is greater at the ends and less in the middle, kind of like an inside reverse barrel to reduce spine.

Word is that the foot will be quite resistant to bending due to target density. Don't know if they will resist stramit, though.

Because the foot is stiffer than the nock end, the spine can be adjusted by careful selection of the end cuts.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

FS560 said:


> The new Easton 4409 shafts will be out any day now. These are to be almost 69 caliber at 0.6875".
> 
> The 09 wall thickness is just an average because the wall thickness is greater at the ends and less in the middle, kind of like an inside reverse barrel to reduce spine.
> 
> ...


And always remember, "Diamonds are a girl's best friend" and "Diamonds are also Yankton's best friend" too.

field14


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## wclark55 (Aug 3, 2008)

*Arrows*

I think 2712's are just fine


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

field14 said:


> And always remember, "Diamonds are a girl's best friend" and "Diamonds are also Yankton's best friend" too.
> 
> field14


that's a good one


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

Sounds like a one inch dowel rod to me.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

This is going to be interesting to see where the point of diminishing returns comes on arrow diameter. I think it's a joke myself....ukey:


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## RamRock (May 22, 2008)

its getting rediculous when your arrow breaks the 8 and the x ring!


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## ursonvs (Sep 19, 2003)

^^^ hmmm, chairleg?


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## Aim4gold (Dec 19, 2006)

RamRock said:


> its getting rediculous when your arrow breaks the 8 and the x ring!


Well put !


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

A limit on shaft diameter needed to have been set years ago, IMHO.

To leave it unlimited is just asking for the integrity of the indoor game to be changed forever. It is, right now, no longer an ACCURAcY contest, but rather an arms race to see who can get the biggest, fattest, heaviest projectile to go somewhere near the center...cuz you don't have to hit dead center to still claim the higher value in points.

Inside put scoring you say? WHO does that help in this game? The top guns, that's who. And once again, the beginner and mid-level shooters pay that price again; just once more in favor of the MINORITY of the shooters in the game.

Pure stupidity to have let this go on this long...and we still have some in leadership positions in the NFAA that want it left with NO LIMITS ON SHAFT DIAMETER!

Pure nonsense.

Good grief, even GOLF finally put their foot down on the size of the club head on drivers! Bowling put their foot down on ball diameter and weight. Tennis and racquetball put a limit on racquet length and head diameter....but here sits the NFAA backwards....and wanting to go with no limits????

Heads up and locked.

field14


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## Southern Boy (Sep 4, 2008)

ui say for the naa nfaa ioa...
that there should be a limit of 9.3 mm
meaning max size a fatboy


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

GA HOYT said:


> ui say for the naa nfaa ioa...
> that there should be a limit of 9.3 mm
> meaning max size a fatboy


I think you can forget the 9.3mm limit in the NFAA; at least for several years.

I think the mold has already been cast and the decision made already with regard to the NFAA and shaft diameter...."they" just aren't telling us yet;

It is well beyond the lapse time for agenda items; It is already well beyond any way of getting anything new tossed onto the floor in the NFAA meeting....the diamond has spoken; the other manufacturers are releasing 27 diameter arrows as we type....so what do YOU surmise the NFAA decision is on shaft diameter?

Regardless of the "input" of the membership? Any guesses where shaft diameter as far as the NFAA is concerned is heading? I could be wrong, and really, honestly, I hope I am wrong...but...look at the evidence and what the arrow manufacturers are releasing and then make your own assumptions or evaluations.....

field14


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

*2613's*

Field14, I can tell you that no desicion has been made as of yet, but the Directors may have made up their minds which way I don't know. I have been on the board a total of 9 years and back for the last 3, this item will come up again at the meeting in Vegas. If the members have given their Directors the marching orders they desire then a final vote will take place, the problem that I see is that the Joe's don't want to make their Directors responsible for the Votes and if they don't do as requested then vote them out of office. If I did what I have seen other Directors do I would have been fired by now. Yes there will be a vote and I am voting for 9.3 as per the Great State of New Mexico as directed me.....


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## lane preston (Mar 31, 2005)

I think the manufacturers are the one who gain by this. the top pros still shoot insideouts whether it is a 26 or x10. I say spend more time on your personal shoot process and form. you will never reach you potential if you are always looking for that magical piece of equip. to get you 60x. pick your own setup and work hard!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

lane preston said:


> I think the manufacturers are the one who gain by this. the top pros still shoot insideouts whether it is a 26 or x10. I say spend more time on your personal shoot process and form. you will never reach you potential if you are always looking for that magical piece of equip. to get you 60x. pick your own setup and *work hard*!


You want me to WHAT? "work?"..>THAT is a dirty four-letter word! Go wash your mouth out with soap!

If today's "shooters" have to WORK and cannot BUY the higher score....then they'll go take up some other hobby...WORK isn't supposed to be part of shooting well...gotta just go out any BUY the hype and the scores that automatically go with it.:embara::shade:

field14


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

With Easton's new 4409 internal reverse tapered shaft, why should we expect any diameter restriction less than that (0.6875")?

Rumor has it that there is a loophole in the NFAA constitution that allows the entity providing the major funding for the association to have 125 director votes at the annual meeting.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

FS560 said:


> With Easton's new 4409 internal reverse tapered shaft, why should we expect any diameter restriction less than that (0.6875")?
> 
> Rumor has it that there is a loophole in the NFAA constitution that allows the entity providing the major funding for the association to have 125 director votes at the annual meeting.


ONLY 125 votes? I heard it was more like 300?:darkbeer::darkbeer:

Thus nullifying any "membership" vote from the potential of winning the "majority."

field14


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Agreed, and with the council in the King's pocket, there you go. I'll not buy the 44's I'll just wait for the "big ones"


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> Agreed, and with the council in the King's pocket, there you go. I'll not buy the 44's I'll just wait for the "big ones"


Yep,
A police officer, when asked why he used the .44 magnum and it's power politey told the "anti" that was asking the question, "Because they don't yet make a .46, Ma'am."

Same with arreys....let's get some real "MAN-SIZED" arrows on the shooting line and quit piddling with those wimpy little ole "27's. 
. Afterall the sky's the limit, since there is no REAL limit. Even .625's are WIMPY knitting needles!

field14


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

With the new Easton technology of the inside reverse barrel whereby the shaft wall is very thin in the center of the shaft and thicker at the ends, primarily the front end, a one inch diameter shaft seems possible without excessive weight and spine.

Even if the arrows cost $100 each, plenty of fools would buy them.

Then, why not 1.5 inch diameter arrows and take out the 10 ring with one shot.

Let us not let rules and restrictions stand in the way of creative engineering in the archery industry.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I'm just not sure whether to laugh or cry. One thing for sure, it's going to be a circus.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

FS560 said:


> With the new Easton technology of the inside reverse barrel whereby the shaft wall is very thin in the center of the shaft and thicker at the ends, primarily the front end, a one inch diameter shaft seems possible without excessive weight and spine.
> 
> Even if the arrows cost $100 each, plenty of fools would buy them.
> 
> ...


Diamonds are a girl's AND Yankton's best friend!

field14


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## hitek (Mar 12, 2007)

I don't see how someone can believe that these fat arrows make them a better shooter. I thought the Fatboys where to big now it is just getting worst. They are making it worst, sooner or later people may stop trying to keep with the JONES and start to take up a new hobby because they don't want to spend a $1000 on new arrows every year let alone $1200 for a new barebow


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Granted big arrows do not a shooter make... But let me also say I just bought a set of 2712's for my brother for Christmas, and he tells me they are absolutely the most forgiving thing he has ever shot indoors. 785 grains........When in Rome.......(Although I think a properly set up set of 2312's with a really heavy front of center would be just as good)........Believe it or not, he uses the same sight mark at 20 that he does with his ACE's.......
I also agree that cost may play a part in some people leaving the sport, but let me also say that it's no crime to shoot a two or three year old bow. That's all between some people's ears and ego.......If you think that you have to have a new bow every year or maby two a year to be competitive, then you've definitely misplaced your priorities. No one cares if you shoot a peach limb with a piece of bailing twine for a string if you can shoot 60 X's


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## hitek (Mar 12, 2007)

I think alot of the arrow and bow buying is ego driven. But I believe a good archer can an will shoot a clean score with a 1-5 year old and normal size arrows, you don't need 1/2 rods to be competive just practice.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

hitek said:


> I think alot of the arrow and bow buying is ego driven. But I believe a good archer can an will shoot a clean score with a 1-5 year old and normal size arrows, you don't need 1/2 rods to be competive just practice.


You got it! I know LOTS of shooters that are doing just that...and they are still shooting 60X 300's WITHOUT the "FAT SHAFTS", or as many of us are coming to recognize...they are shooting REAL 60X 300's, hahahahaha.

I know many that have tried the FAT SHAFTS and watched their shooting skills and x-counts DECLINE, too. They get to depending upon the arrow to do the work and forget FORM and EXECUTION...and have to learn all over again.

BUT...you'll never stop the HYPE and marketing of BUYING a tad better score, and the belief by the mid-level shooter that the FAT ARROW will take them from 40X to 60X like magic.:shade::teeth:
Of course a "12" wall thickness arrow isn't the most sturdy of those out there either...just wait until "they" have to replace those 12 wall shafts all the time due to the bending and fatigue...especially with those 300 and 300+ grain points in them and the stresses the sudden stop places upon the first 8 - 10 inches of that shaft! Glad they gots lotsa money....hahaha

field14


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

Um..I think the perfect max size limit should be = to the Acc 360 ?

Im serious...here is why:

more of a test of an archers skill/accuracy

no big holes wore in target....(no big black holes to aim at or to pull you away from center)

To the best of my knowledge: All of the major (most of minor) arrow shaft manufactors produce an arrow of this size.....and at different spines.... no need to shoot 1lb lead weight in the nose.

really equal the playing field!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Sith of Archery said:


> Um..I think the perfect max size limit should be = to the Acc 360 ?
> 
> Im serious...here is why:
> 
> ...


At the TOP of any leader board, it really doesn't matter if they shoot X-10 diameter arrows or 27's...the cream will rise to the top.

Putting on a shaft size restriction won't change the PRO leader board one iota...but it will put INTEGRITY and ACCURACY back into the game; stop the arms race and HYPE, and establish a limit...which should have been done in the late 1980's when the 2512's came out, IMHO.

There just needs to be a limit, and once everyone knows a limit, it will be just fine...but..>STANDARDIZATION sure would be nice so that a person can go to any "organization" of archery and not have to change the set-up around...or have two or three bows to be able to shoot X, Y, & Z organizations.

The best of the best won't change any...and I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see all kinds of inside-out 60X 300's when the shooters won't think they are giving up anything to their competitors by not shooting fat shafts! Wouldn't surprise me a bit to see the indoor Nationals shootoff START...with 8 or 9 guys that shot 120X....INSIDE-OUT!

field14


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## introverted (Jan 2, 2009)

i just saw a target with x's blew OUT (300, 60x NFAA 5 spot target) buy an older gentleman from the local target league, and he's shooting 2012's

so

i agree the best will rise no matter what, but why wouldn't someone use the added security of a bigger shaft? i know i will until it's illegal, then i'll move on to something else, i know i am confident in my shooting, and i'm sure there are a lot of other people here that feel the same way with their shooting, scores probably wont drop but they will still use as big as possible, just because they can


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## bowtechboy62 (Mar 7, 2008)

this is getting rediculous. i thought the 2712's were too big, even tho i use 26's i think these neww 44's are an outrage. Its no longer who can shoot the best but who can thow the biggest log!


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## KenZ (Feb 18, 2004)

I must be heading in the wrong direction. I use ACC 3L-18 arrows. No I don't shoot perfect scores, and big aluminum arrows will only buy me maybe 2 points or so. A friend of mine told me once, "aim small, miss small". Seems to work. You either put it in the x or you don't. This is a debate that willl never end. How about this idea, use 1 target instead of 3 individual targets. If they have to pound 3 2712's into one spot, it won't take long to see people start dropping arrow sizes. Plus it would get some spectator excitement back in the game when they start smakin' arrows, nocks are flyin' everywhere and an occasional $25 dollar robin hood. Kinda like going to a hockey game just to see the fights.


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## introverted (Jan 2, 2009)

KenZ said:


> I must be heading in the wrong direction. I use ACC 3L-18 arrows. No I don't shoot perfect scores, and big aluminum arrows will only buy me maybe 2 points or so. A friend of mine told me once, "aim small, miss small". Seems to work. You either put it in the x or you don't. This is a debate that willl never end. How about this idea, use 1 target instead of 3 individual targets. If they have to pound 3 2712's into one spot, it won't take long to see people start dropping arrow sizes. Plus it would get some spectator excitement back in the game when they start smakin' arrows, nocks are flyin' everywhere and an occasional $25 dollar robin hood. Kinda like going to a hockey game just to see the fights.



wouldn't matter, because people who DO shoot the perfect scores, will shoot perfect scores no matter what, and there is no way in hell i'm going to shoot at a single spot at 18 meters, or 20 yards, no matter what arrow size, because i'd jack up a dozen arrows before the round was over!


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## Tinknocker (Nov 27, 2004)

*2613*

What rest are you all using with these heave arrows/ I just set up 2613 33" long with 300 gr Pro Pins and tying to set up a AAE Pro Blade with .012 wide launcher .
Tinknocker


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