# Recurve bow advice for a newbie?



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Welcome. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1588147
Good information on the purchase of your first bow on this thread.

You will outgrow your bow when you do. How's that for a dodge?

Starting light, or even too light, works to your advantage in that you can dominate the bow as if it is a natural extension of your body, obtain proper form elements without stress, and shoot all day long without fatigue. Can't beat all that, can ya?

As you will read on the above link, takedown bows allow you to upgrade limb weights as you wish without buying a new riser. If you buy new from a respectable dealer, they can set you up with the properly matched arrows and accessories, as well. They will also remedy any issues you may have with defective equipment. Lancaster Archery and 3Rivers Archery are two major online dealers that I, as well as many others on this forum, have had great success with. They speak "stickbow-eese" quite fluently. 

Used - well, I personally would steer clear unless you have a mentor to assure you of a sound purchase. 

Check out that thread, and holler back with questions. The folk here are eager, if not rabidly possessed, to jump in and help you get up and running with the proper equipment match-ups. 

Good luck. "Pop!"


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Thin Man said:


> Check out that thread, and holler back with questions. The folk here are eager, if not rabidly possessed, to jump in and help you get up and running with the proper equipment match-ups.
> 
> Good luck. "Pop!"


What he said. Welcome to the sickness!


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Thanks guys! For the first point, I've decided on recurve (though I do love long bows, just not quite right at the moment). Second, I see the point of steering clear of a used purchase. I'm just too unknowledgable to make a sound purchase. Now my problem is, the local (not really, 1 hour drive away) shop stocks only the PSE Razorback for the traditional bows in my price range. I see that the Samick Polaris, Samick Sage, and something from Martin's been recommended on past forums. Should I just go with the PSE Razorback that the shop stocks? They sell it for $125 there, but I've found it for less on the internet as well.

Edit: I'm in the Southern California/LA area, and everything here is compound bows  I was never a fan of them. They just don't really interest me somehow.


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## Bytesback (Apr 8, 2013)

Eilrymist- I've owned a Samick Polaris, Samick Sage, and a Samick little fox. All of the above I found to be great bows for newbies like ourselves to learn on. I originally got the Polaris for my girlfriend, but later traded it for a Little fox. The polaris shot great, only reason for the trade was she found the white limbs to be unattractive. She now shoots the Little fox, and I shoot the Sage. I can tell you all 3 bows are excellent, and they are all inexpensive. You can get any one of them for less than $140 shipped online. I'd recommend you check out TwigArchery.com, they stock a full supply of Samick recurves and John and Gayle(owners) are very great people. If you give them a call, they will personally answer all your questions, and set you up with the bow and accessories that will work best for you. All that being said, it never hurts to be able to shoot a bow before you buy it, so If you get a chance to drive down and test out the razorback, all the better. Hope this helps


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Like pointed out in a link from a post above, these are one good starting point:
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/hoyt-excel-recurve-riser.html
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/win-win-sf-axiom-plus-recurve-limbs-27800.html
After purchasing and making several bows, the Hoyt Excel 21" riser and the W&W/SF Axiom+ limbs may be my new favs' You will never really out grow your 25lb limbs...they will always shoot better than you do! ;-)
Save up some money and go with an ILF rig like the one above and you will be happy.
Good Luck!


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Thanks  I've shot the Razorback before, that's what they rent out to me. I just get this weird feeling from some of the rental bows I get from them, and I don't know if it's from the bows or from my stance or what. Sometimes, the instructor will be watching my form, and it will be seemingly fine, I release fine, but it's almost like the bow does something different than it's supposed to and flys the arrow a different way. Perhaps I was plucking the string. Does your girlfriend find the Little Fox too small? I see that it seems to be targeted at youth. Personally, I like the look of the sage over the razorback and polaris, but the Polaris IS a bit cheaper which is always nice. I guess it's hard because I can't really hold them in my hand. I have really small hands and I remember one bow I rented, I had trouble getting my hand around the riser grip.

And thanks for the lancaster link. I've been looking on there mainly at their Samicks. I don't know if I'll be able to save up that much money, because since I'm still getting into the sport, I'm wary of spending that much on equipment.


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## Bytesback (Apr 8, 2013)

The little fox often is target at youth, but she enjoys it. She is only 5`1 and has a 24" draw so the little fox fits her pretty well. The downside to the little fox is that 58" is the largest size it comes in. From what i've read on here 62" is better to start on, the longer the bow the easier the draw. I absolutely love my Sage, I think it is a very comfortable bow to shoot and its been great to learn on. I'm 5`6 with a 28" draw, and the 62" sage fits me perfect. I don't consider the Sage riser very large, but I also have longer hands so I don't think I'd notice if it was larger than others. The polaris riser is smaller than the sage so it might be a better fit? If white limbs don't bother you, its really a great bow to shoot, and I believe the polaris also comes in 62", though I can't swear by that as I had the 58". I also was leery of spending money on an ILF setup just starting out. Not saying an ILF bow isn't worth it, but when just starting out and unsure of how you'll take to it, there are alot of great bows out there that are quite a bit more affordable. Samick makes a great bow, and they are highly recommended, especially for beginners and alot more cost friendly than most ILF setups.


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## Bytesback (Apr 8, 2013)

EilryMist- Here is the link to TwigArcherys Samick Polaris. Looks like the bow is only $99.00, or you can spend a little more to get a package that includes some accessories. The Polaris does go to 62", and has a weight range of 25-40# limbs. There should also be specs for the bow on there, hope this helps.

http://www.twigarchery.com/samick-polaris-bow/


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Ah thanks for that link! With the 62' option it comes out to 119 again, so I'll just fiddle with different websites to see where I get the best prices. The best price so far is Lancaster. Now, there's someone selling a gently used PSE razorback on ebay, with a case and arrows for quite a low price right now. It's on bid and it's at $44 right now. It's at the size and weight I need. Do you guys think it's a good deal?


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## Bytesback (Apr 8, 2013)

From what I have heard others on here say, buying used, even "gently" used is a bad idea for newbies like us. There is a number of things that can damage a bow, even without someone realizing they did so, so buying one is a gamble unless you know exactly what to look for and expect. Lancaster is an excellent site with very knowledgable staff, so buying from there would be a good idea, they also have an excellent return policy if its not what you expected, or are not satisfied. My advice would be to buy a new bow from a reputable shop like twig or lancaster, and if you dont like it, you can always send it back for a different one or get your money back. Cant do that on ebay.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

A good start that you can keep for years to come.

http://www.skyarchery.com/tour/tour-13.htm


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

Another great option because you can replace the limbs and sell the old ones if you outgrow them. A [email protected] will probably pull about 33 lbs at your draw length.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/samick-sage-takedown-recurve-bow.html


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Here's a non-horror story. 

I bought a Samick bow (not any the models being discussed here) from Lancaster Archery that was deliberately heavy for use as a "weight lifting" bow. I just hung it on my rack and would pull it once in a while. Never even shot it. 

Six months later, I noticed that it had developed a slight twist on the upper limb. I called Lancaster, and they issued a shipping label for me to download on my computer, shipped it back free of charge (always save yer boxes, kiddies!), and received a replacement bow. No questions asked. 

Six months later!

A reputable dealer makes it good, just as would an honest custom bowyer. These inexpensive high-production bows have inexpensive quality control by default. Nothing wrong with that ... that's why they are inexpensive. But your financial firewall is a great dealer who can flip the bow back to the wholesaler and get you a replacement. 

Experienced eyes on a used bow would suffice. Used and sight unseen via online purchase - a chance taken with fingers crossed.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Thanks guys for all your replys. I see that the Samicks seem like a good buy. However, wwould you recommend buying a bow without shooting it? Also, my hands are really small. Would the Sage be too large for my hands? (Seems like that's a question only shooting would aanswer for me though) I with so cal had stores that had stuff other than compound bows! NDont want to make this more complicated, but I see this brand Quinn and Mohen (I butch ered that spelling) reccomended to newbies as well. Thoughts? Should I just go with what I can try in person, whwhich would be the PSE razorback?


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Avoid the online used bow market...if you want to be SURE of a good deal. Get one of the Samicks from a large retailer like LAS. LAS has great customer service. Plus it just shows up at your door like Santa Claus stopped by. ;-)


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Razorback, from the pictures, looks like a knockoff (maybe even made by the same factory) of the Greatree Mohegan (I own one) which is a design sibling of the Samick Sage and Polaris styles. Samicks have a metal receiver for the limbs, the Mohegan and, from the looks of it, the Razorback have a plastic receiver for the limbs. Ergo my deductions. 

The grips all look similar to my eye. On my Samick Polaris and Greatree Mohegan bows, they are nearly identical. They are neither overly thick nor thin in girth. Very "pedestrian" for the "everywoman".

My sister shoots a Samick Polaris and has no complaint concerning the grip. Actually, that grip is simply gonna be pressing into your hand under its own pressure when drawn, and your fingers will be ever-so-delicately draped about it with a butterfly's touch to simply keep it from flying away on the loose. You don't need to wrap fingers around a bow like a baseball bat.

I think this grip is fine for the average shooter. Oddly, within my bow collection, my two favorite grips are polar opposites: one is thin enough for a toddler to employ, yet the other is of Herculean girth. I adore them both and simply let my fingers lay as they will. My palm has never complained. You may even find that a thicker-for-you grip is an advantage down the road (same goes for musical drumsticks and fried chicken legs, too!)

Buying a bow without shooting it? If you know the draw weight you desire and are rolling with a reputable dealer and brand of bow, you should be fine. It is hard to impossible to shoot the very bow you desire in every case if there is none available in your zip code. Lots of faith in the procurement is needed. But a great dealer will make it good if you need to return the bow for a swap or possible refund. 

Sometimes you don't know what you want until you're well into the game, anyway. Gotta start somewhere. 

The first bow is rarely the last bow.

Good luck.


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## Nordh (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi there,

We live in the LA area and if you're really interested me and my wife both have a Sage (30lb) and a Polaris (20lb) if you want to come try them out. 

Cheers!


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## geom12 (Apr 10, 2013)

Seems the Polaris would be good fit for a first bow.for small handed persons.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Welcome...:welcomesign:

Hang on to your checkbook...lol...:wink:


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## Xero (Apr 20, 2013)

Advice from a newbie coming at it from the other direction -- 

65 yrs old and have wanted a 40# recurve since I was about 15. 28" draw, 5' 10" -- male. So I bought one, a Samick Sage, 62" / 40#. Way too heavy for my shoulders! Two weeks and many Tylenol later I found a Force Focus, 66" 24#. This lighter bow is MUCH, MUCH nicer to shoot, I expect I'll never outgrow it. It's just a sweet bow for me. 

My pal Carly got a 52" Wohegan 24# -- which is a "youth" bow. She's 5' 9", 28" draw. This bow is too short for her. We're looking to trade/exchange it for a Force Focus same as mine. 

A bow in the 20# -- 25# range is very much suitable for target work. This weight allows concentration on form, less stress on the arms, shoulders. At 20 yds w/ matched arrows it shoots pretty much like the 40# Sage -- only less harsh, smoother, easier to aim and focus on form. 

You're 5' 4", 115 lbs, 25" draw -- target shooting. You're not hunting and so don't need to draw weight. Well fitted bow and matched arrows in the 20# -- 25# will be excellent for learning, and likely be a pleasure to use way down the road. I suspect there's a sort of "man thing" about draw weight. Longbow archers at the time of Henry V (Agincourt, 1415) were training at 8 yrs old on 60# bows. Adult soldiers were shooting 130# draw longbows. 

130# is more than you weigh! You don't have any need to get into a "drawing contest." A nice light bow is a joy to use, and you're not going to grow out of it because it's too light. You may decide you want something more high end, but even then it sounds like 20# 25# is a good weight for you. 

Ohhhhhh, yeah -- and most take down (3 piece) bows these days have the option of swapping out limbs for different lengths and draw weights. And you want to by from a shop where you can try it out, bring it back if it's not working for you.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Razorback in my experience was fine and fun for a first starter. Sage seems fine too for the money.

Like others have said, I think having a service-oriented dealer is of great value.

If you get into this, either bow is unlikely to be your last. If you're comfortable and enjoy the Razorback, or whatever the model is when sold by the original manufacturer, I think it's a fine choice. If you have a chance to try the Sage, or buy one with the option to return it if you don't like it as much, try one out.

If you buy used, you might get a great deal, or you might get a really bad one. Your dice.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Another option is a Cartel Triple riser and either Sage or Polaris limbs. Works out to under $100 and the geometry seems to work really well for shorter draw shooters. If you find the grip doesn't work then you can just remove it and shoot the bare riser wrapped in racket tape.
You probably want a set of 25-28# limbs to get you into a good weight range at your DL.

Getting a good set of light arrows will unlock the performance in that bow. The Carbon Impact Super club 10/20 would likely work out really well for you.

-Grant


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

I am also a beginner archery type, but a long user of eBay. I like one piece recurves. I have purchased 5 of them so far. Only one had a problem. Horizontal cracks in the limbs. Something that you could feel with you finger and caused the limb to twist when strung. 

One of the secrets is to look at the pictures very carefully, and ask questions from the seller. Another is to check before bidding to see what the return policy is. Most people let you send it back in the first week or two. My example above allowed me to return the bow. I was only out return shipping. Check to see what shipping will be before you bid. Sometimes it seems like a good deal but with shipping and handling it is not.

The last bow was for my brother and was 40#. An old Ben Pearson colt, and cost me $68 including shipping. 

Of the other 3? The first was a 37# Howatts mamba that cost me $60 and was in perfect condition. I used it a lot and it got me into shooting. The arrows cost more than this bow. But I didn't like the grip much. To verticle. So I looked around on eBay and bought an old, but several decades newer than the Howatt, American Archery Flash at 40# and $75 including shipping. The Flash has the perfect grip for my hand. I really like the bow and would still use it as my only bow except....

I read too much. And a lot of what I read says that a longer bow is more forgiving. Ok, I really need forgiving. And as luck would have it, there on eBay was an old West Bow with the same grip as the flash but 68 inches long, the flash was 60 inches, and could be had for $100 and was 38# pull. A bit less than the flash. I only have about a 27 inch draw so all actual pound numbers are less.

The point of all this is that eBay works for me, used works for me, and if you enjoy shooting arrows into the air, you will probably buy more than one bow. I have 3 and have spent less than $250 and could sell them for about what I paid for them.

Good luck


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Hello Nordh, since you're in the LA area, I was wondering where you had gotten your bows. My boyfriend got his razorback from Orange County Archery (quite a drive for us in the south bay) but I wanted to research more before splurging on the only bow they stock. 

And Hmmm Nekekal, I'm scared of buying one on ebay, just because even though I LOVE the look of the one piece vintage bows, I'm afraid I won't know what I'm doing. Because I'm a Beginner and I'm still quite weak, my draw weight isn't high. I don't know what a shorter or longer bow means to my draw length and draw weight. 

Thanks so everyone for their suggestions. I guess it's just so difficult to pick something via the internet. I guess part of the draw of archery is also how much I'd love my bow if that makes sense.

Also, I understand what you mean about not gripping the bow. There was just one where it just kept slipping out of my hand, and I got a cramp because I needed to grip it to keep it up. I chalk it up to me being a newbie though. I will say it was quite uncomfortable though.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Where in South Bay area? Lived there for some time. Are you one of those Hermosa Beach skaters?


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Haha definitely not a Hermosa Beach Skater. I live in the Torrance area.  Currently a college student studying chemical engineering. Back at community college from UC Berk after tuition hikes >< just working and getting credits. Seemed to have picked up on a very expensive hobby right now though!

I know you guys said probably vintage bows were not a good idea, but I wanted to link this one here. Seems pretty nice, but I'm worried that there's unseen damages. Personally adore the look of it. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Bea...753?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232b2dcb11

(If that's against the rules, please let me know I'll remove it!)


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

e - 

Actually vintage bows can be a great idea, but you do have to have some idea what you are looking at. 
Since you're new to this, posting a link like you did is a good idea, since you'll get some folks with a little more experience giving you their take on it. 
Yes, it's always a bit of a crap shoot on any "hidden damages", but most ebay sellers don't want negative ratings and paypal also gives you some recourse. 

I used to do a bit (OK, a lot) of buying on ebay, and rarely got anything that was problematic, or couldn't be easily fixed. One bow had an early delamination, and the seller requested I send it back for a full refund. Still, yes, there is a risk. 

The bow in the link, was considered an entry level or youth "semi-recurve" and appears to be in pretty good condition. Does that mean it won't crack on the first shot? No, but I'd guess that would be very unlikely. Is it a great bow? No (performance wise). Usable? Certainly. The arrows since they are the same vintage may be a little iffy. 

I think you might be better of with a more modern bow, but based on your budget and tastes, a lot of these older bows still hold up quite well.
One trick on ebay,is NOT to be in hurry. I've seen the same model bow, in the same condition go for $60, and over $300 a number of months later! (A friend got the $60 one.) 

Viper1 out.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Ah thank you. I just found the arrows, quiver and all the other stuff to be extras. If I can snag that bow at a low price, I might do it. I'll keep it on watch as the days clock down. What do you mean performance wise though? Are the modern bows easier to shoot? More accurate? Or more powerful? 

Also, if everyone here doesn't mind, I'd like to dump more ebay links here. Sorry guys! Feel free to ignore these!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Shakesp...464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c7b42460
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-NICE-...423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a2d00c077
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WOO...046?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417380054e

I think if the vintage bows end up not working out for me, or if I get too terrified, I might go with the Samick Sage. Does that seem like a good pick? I'd have to call Lancaster and ask more, or go to my local shop and see if they know when I go to their open range.


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## Bytesback (Apr 8, 2013)

Eilrymist- 1 thing I noticed in a few of the ebay links is smaller shelfs. Now I can't speak of the quality or dependability but a smaller shelf tends to have some wanting to cant the bow to prevent the arrow from slipping off the shelf. This canting the bow is counter-productive to building good form, which is important when you first start out. Many can shoot a bow very well canted, but when your first starting it pays to stick to the basics of form, which would probably be easier with a bow that has a larger shelf. I could be wrong here, I am new also, but from the conversations I've had on here concerning bow canting, it seems its generally something to avoid until you have basic form down. Viper1 and the others more knowledgable may chime in on this, as I may be overthinking the issue.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

The Sage is a good bow at a great price, and it comes with a warranty--no red tape, no hassle, just contact Lancaster and send it back warranty. Chances are you'd never have to use it, but if you did, it's quick and easy.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> Are the modern bows easier to shoot? More accurate? Or more powerful?


Usually not much difference there...but one big benefit to me is you can use "modern" string materials on most new bows (including the Sage) and in some cases really bring out the best--especially if you use the proper string.  Throwing a string made for a 75# bow on a 20#-er won't help anything--it will actually hinder performance--but the right string can make a big difference in how the bow feels and performs.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

eilrymist said:


> I know you guys said probably vintage bows were not a good idea, but I wanted to link this one here. Seems pretty nice, but I'm worried that there's unseen damages. Personally adore the look of it.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Bea...753?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232b2dcb11
> 
> )


The bow looks pretty nice. As viper said, I would not put too much stock in the arrows. The grip is sort of midway between high and low. But, Bear bows are pretty highly collectible and the final price may be a lot higher. And this person wants a lot to ship it. From the ones I have bought, $12 is low for shipping, and $17 is about average. At $25 shipping, and $50 for the bow, you are already at $75, which is halfway to a new, but clunkier, Sage.

As viper says, for eBay you have to be patient. For my first bow last year, I had never even touched a bow before, I just kept watching until I found one that I could afford.

Bow length has very little to do with draw length. I don't actually know if it makes any difference. My first one was 58 inches. This one you linked to is 62. Seems ok and has a very seductive shape.

Good luck.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

N - 

Actually draw length is a major factor in optimal bow length. Compromises are made to accommodate specific situations, but generally longer will provide a smoother draw and greater stability at the possible cost of a few fps, as long as the draw length is sufficient to fully open (or work) the limbs. 

Viper1 out.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

The Cub isn't generally a highly sought after bow--the $50 asking price would be about all I'd be willing to put into one, without the added $25 shipping..._IF_ I knew for sure it was in good shape.



> Bow length has very little to do with draw length. I don't actually know if it makes any difference.


It can make a huge difference. Generally speaking, the longer your draw, the longer the bow needs to be. How long varies by design and purpose.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

eilrymist said:


> Also, if everyone here doesn't mind, I'd like to dump more ebay links here. Sorry guys! Feel free to ignore these!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Shakesp...464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c7b42460
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-NICE-...423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a2d00c077
> ...


I really like the Wonderbow. The grip is a bit vertical for me, but it is a beautiful looking bow. Currently it is $100 with shipping, but sometimes a high starting price kills bidding so it might stay there. I would watch that.

The GALAXIE looks like what was called in my youth, a semi-recurve. Strung it has almost no recurve. So while the shape is less appealing to me, I believe that they work fine, and that one looks great. Shipping is pretty high, but currently the price is pretty low. It is an off brand so there should be few collectors and it may sell for a lower amount. The seller has a 14 day return policy. If it is just you and a couple of people, you might be able to outbid them. The bow looks good.

The PONY has a grip like my first attempt but is a really low end bow designed to be shot with either hand, and probably not well with either hand. At $20 shipping is reasonable, but at $90 cost is too high for what you get. I would buy the Sage over this one.

Good luck.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E -

Exactly what do you planing on doing with the bow? 
How much practice time do you have to devote to archery (and where will you be doing most of your shooting)?

I understand the budget issue, but if you are at all serious about this stuff, the odds are good you will out grow the bows you've been looking at fairly quickly. 

Of the last listed, the Galaxie is the best of lot. But it is a semi -recurve and a small grip. If that's what you're into, then great!

The Shakespeare, while a better bow all around, MAY have a separation between the wood core and riser, hard to tell from the picture.
The scuffs you're seeing really don't matter, except cosmetically - and those can be fixed. If there is a separation, that's a show-stopper. 

The Pearson while shootable is very entry level, and may have some kick to it, even at the low weight. Doubt you'll enjoy shooting it for too long. 

Viper1 out.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Thanks everyone!

Viper, I have a busy school and work schedule. I take all my engineering and science courses and then work 5-6 hours in the evenings. I currently drive 1 hour to go to an archery shop for their open shoots. However, if I pay the fee, which is 10/month, there is an archery range 10 minutes from my house where it's open all hours. The only requirement is that I would need my own bow before shooting.

Because the range I go to rent the bow is far, I can only go on the weekends. However, I think I'd shoot more if I was able to go to my own. 

I see what you're saying Viper about out growing these entry level and youth bows quickly. I do love the look of the Shakespeare wonderbow, but I don't think I want to chance the separation. I could send a message to the owner, BUT the reason I wanted to get a vintage bow was to find a deal. With that bow at around $100, that isn't really much savings over a PSE razorback or Samick Sage, and those come with a warranty should something go awry. 

If I stick with this sport and get into hunting, maybe then I'll look for a nice vintage bow when I've upped my draw weight and gotten then hang of it and know what I'd want. 

What do you think of this idea. My boyfriend just bought his own bow last week, and has been shooting quite a bit already. He is quite strong but (I think wisely) started off at 25lbs. However, he's thinking of going up to 30lbs soon. He has a PSE Razorback which is what the archery shop stocks. Do you think it would be good then for me to get the riser of the PSE razorback, use his old 25lb limbs, and have him get his 30lb limbs? For some reason, I was leaning towards the Samick Sage because of the good reviews I had heard, but now I don't know if there's much of a difference.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

i guess my biggest fear is that I spend money, and then I suddenly am not interested in the sport at all. The reason I want a bow would be so I could practice more conveniently, but that means I would become more dedicated if that makes any sense.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E - 

The idea sounds good (actually, you're whole analysis sounds pretty good), except for one thing. You are not going to be happy not being able to shoot "together" because you're going to be switching switch limbs in mid stream. Gonna have to trust me on that one... it gets old really fast.

How do you like the Razorback? If the cost is workable, he could get a whole new bow and you could use that. 
I haven't shot the Razorback, so I can't make a call on it, but since you're new at this, weight, length and price are the prime factors, not the decals on the bow. 

'nother question. I assume you're paying for range time and bow rental now?
At $10/month (which is pretty good, if the range is decent), the savings might offset the cost of new bow. 

Viper1 out.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Ah yes, I meant purchase a whole new bow for myself, and give him the 30lbs. More of a cost saving measure for him than me. I've never tried a Samick Sage, and I won't be able to since the shop only stock the Razorback. They sell it for $125, but I know online I can find it for $109 with free shipping and get some accessories cheaper. I'll buy the arrows from them so I can get them properly fitted. 

In my hand, the Razorback felt really thick, like even when I had it rested, it felt like it wasn't resting comfortably because I have small hands. I could also have been holding it wrong and I will have to see again if I get a chance to go this weekend. the only reason I was leaning towards the Sage was because I've been reading forums where various women have stated the Sage had a thinner middle bit and was more comfortable for smaller hands. Not sure how important that really is. 

Right now, I pay $22 for bow rental and 1 hour range time. 

For the range in my area, it's $10/month, but has to be paid up front so it's a big chunk of money. It's a pretty big range from what I've heard. If you stay for the next year and sign up for a clean up session, you get half off the next year's subscription. So it lowers to $70 a year. It's usually for a beginner class, so I get some instruction as well. They give me a range of draw weights depending of the bows handed out to the rest of the class.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E - 

That's actually the other point that can make or break a bow for a given shooter - the grip. 
It's really the only interface you have with the bow, that's why I asked how you liked the RB. 

It's also one reason I still recommend Hoyt risers, even though a lot of the Korean risers are actually better made and finished. 
The grip is small and generic enough that with even a little training, I haven't met too many people who didn't like it right off the bat. Whereas the Korean grips are very specific to hand position - OK, off topic. 

Since you will be ultimately saving money with your own stuff, it may just come down to a "pick-one" scenario. 
You know what the RB feels like, and you can get the Sage from Lancaster and they do have a return policy. 

BTW - the arrow fitting thing is no big deal. Leave them longer than your draw length for now and all you need to do is get into the tuning ball park.
They won't be spot on out of the box, and odds are you're not ready to start tuning (yet). 

Viper1 out.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

I'm seeing what you mean about the risers how. Because they're universal, they are more flexible when it comes to me growing and changing in needs. I guess the only thing Id dislike is that they're metal, and I have this thing for wood. BUT comfort is more important than aesthetics. Perhaps also the resalability of the Hoyt riser would be better if i end up dropping the sport, or changing in needs or something. Is it safe to buy a used riser? Are there wooden risers? Lengths, because I see 21 - 23"? Also, I know Hoyt is a great brand, but are there others that may be cheaper but also good buys? 

Sorry to be picking your brain! I'm just a very careful spender since I'm putting myself through school by working and paying for my own stuff.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

whoops, I also wanted to add that im not really interested in the competition bows right now. Like I don't really like the idea of sights and stuff on my bow. I guess it's just a preference. If that's the case, is the riser still a good idea? Because I see those seem more like the olympic style bow.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

The other nice thing about the Hoyt Excel riser, besides being ILF and having lots of limb options, is that you can switch out the handle/grip for a wood one. These wood grips can be modified to fit you perfectly and make a nice project for you and/or your boyfriend. Sometimes the grips can be very had to unscrew (perhaps the quality control people sometimes glue/epoxy a screw into a stripped grip mount hole?,) like on mine where I may have to drill it out to remove it. Some people remove the grip and add tape to get a "grip" that fits them.

I wish I had gone with the Excel and ILF limbs for my first bow...I probably would have saved some money in the long run!

Again, Good Luck!


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Here is a pic of my Excel ILF rig. You can paint your limbs the same color as the riser and pink if you want.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E - 

Most of the wood ILF risers are in the high $$$ range, but I'm sure I don't know every one out there.
The one notable exception in the Tradtech Pinnacle, which is a super riser in feel and looks, but more than the Excel 

With risers like the Excel, it's generic enough to be anything you want.
Add the sights, stabilizers, etc and you have an Olympic bow, don't add the extras and dull the finish (the also make a flat black version) and you have a hunting bow. 

Hoyt used to be a great bow company, but (IMHO) they've dropped the ball over the last decade or so. 
Their limbs haven't really been competitive in price and performance, and they discontinued most of their really top end risers. 

IIRC, your draw length is in the 25 - 26" range.
For starters, I'd look at either a 23" riser and medium limbs (66" bow) or a 21" riser and long limbs (also a 66" bow). 

Weight requires a little math (or a call to Lancaster).

Limbs marked for a 25" riser will be 2# heavier on a 23" riser and 4# heavier on a 21" riser, AND assuming a 26" draw length, subtract about 3# from the number you get from the first part of this sentence. 

Example:
You buy limbs marked 26# on a 25" riser. The should be 30# on a 21" riser.
Subtract about 3# due to your draw length and you get 27#. 

Or 

Call Lancaster, talk to John Wert or one of his guys and tell them the riser and limb length, what weight you want at what draw length and they will set it up for you. 
The riser comes with a usable rest, but you will need a string, stringer, arrows, etc. 

OK, just to keep the waters muddy.. The Sage is a great bow for the money and you will probably not out grow it for a good while. 
You will just have longer term options and a better feeling/shooting bow with the Excel. 

Buying used is fine, just make sure all the parts come with the bow. 
While not indestructible, I've never seen an Excel fail. 
Some risers will have a slight twist, but it's no more common than any wood bow, and probably a lot less common. 

Viper1 out.


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## Bytesback (Apr 8, 2013)

I'll also add that you really only need to worry about "outgrowing" your bow quickly if you are aiming for a specific goal like Competition archery, or hunting. I have talked to "backyard archers" like myself, who just bought a bow to have fun at the range or in the yard, and many of them are still using their first bow 2-3 years later. While I see other bows that I would like to try, I can't see myself outgrowing my Sage since I love the sage and I am only using it to fling arrows for fun, and any bow will do that. With how unsure you are of the long term use of a bow, I really would go with a inexpensive, but highly recommended bow like a PSE or a Samick. The ILF setups are quite a bit better, but they cost more and are probably only worth the investment if your sure that this will be a longterm thing. JMHO


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Thanks for the picture of your set up! Haha I'd hate to paint it pink. If anything, I'd probably paint it black. 

Viper1, You have so much good advice. I've been reading so many of your posts in other forums, and I see why you're recommending the IFL rigs. However, I notice that you only recommend the Excel riser, and not any of the cheaper Samick, Cartel, or W&W ones. The appeal of going your way is of course the versatility, but the draw backs are the higher set up costs (It seemed like 180 + 80 for limbs). If I knew my goals were competition or hunting right now, I think I wouldn't hesitate to purchase the riser and limbs combination, but because I'm so unsure, I'm holding back on the decision. it's definitely something for myself to think over because you've given lots of sound advice. In a way, I don't think I'm being really hurt by not making a decision right away, right? Though I know I'm just an indecisive person by nature. 

Bytesback, my problem is I don't really have a goal. I'm competitive with myself improving, but I don't know if competition archery is something I'm one day going into. With hunting, well I still am not sure if I'm interested in that. Now bow fishing is something I am interested in. I can kill a fish, but tell me to kill bambi's mother and I don't know what to do! haha not that I would even get CLOSE to killing something that large with my draw weight and skill level (Unless something ran into my arrow or something stupid)

I'm going to continue just shooting on the weekends, and I'll talk to the pro shop this weekend. Maybe someone there will have some recurves from home they can let me try. (they all seem to be compound guys though!)

One thing I WILL do though, is buy at least my accessories online. I think the local shop REALLY over prices their things!


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Ok this might be an absolutely STUPID question, but if I shoot with my left hand on the bow, and my right hand drawing back, I get a left handed riser? or a right handed?


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Right handed.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E - 

I fully understand where you're coming from.
Going with the Samick Sage and seeing where it takes you is a good bet. 

I think I heard somewhere that the only requirements for a first bow are:
cheap (inexpensive), long (enough to be comfortable) and light (enough to be comfortable).

Please keep us posted.

Viper1 out.


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## Nordh (Feb 4, 2013)

eilrymist said:


> Hello Nordh, since you're in the LA area, I was wondering where you had gotten your bows. My boyfriend got his razorback from Orange County Archery (quite a drive for us in the south bay) but I wanted to research more before splurging on the only bow they stock.


We actually ordered those bows along with arrows etc from https://www.rmsgear.com because we had some friends recommend them.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Thanks everyone. I think I'll go with Twig Archery, just because they have everything in stock at the moment, and talk to them. Now I see they stock cedar bows, but I've read they're not recommended for beginners. Should I get my arrows elsewhere? And I'm really confused on how to calculate the arrow length, weight, and all that stuff. Is there an economical way to get long lasting arrows? If there's an old thread to this, feel free to post. I try to scour the forums before posting to minimize annoyances, but the arrows are something I'm really quite confused with.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E - 

Don't over think the arrows, they aren't that complicated - really. 

Start with aluminum (my personal preference). 
For now, just make sure they are LONGER than your draw length, since it will probably grow as you progress. 

There's a very simple spine chart on my website, but if we assume a 26" draw and a 25# @ 28" bow, we can go with a 23# bow at your draw.
I'd get a 1/2 dozen *full length* 1616s, glue in tips and any feathers you like. 
A shorter 1516 might be a better choice, but I'd rather you started with a slightly stiff arrow than a slightly weak one. 

With that be the right or perfect arrow? 
Don't know, but it will get you close enough to start shooting and later tuning. 

Viper1 out.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Ohh I see. So I can fletch the myself easily enough right? 1616's, I'm going to assume they're Eastons? And does it matter what tips or feathers I get? Do you recommend a supplier? I was going to buy my bow from Twig Archery because Lancaster is out of stock of my limbs, and I don't want to go up to 30# because I don't think I can handle it. 

And for a shooting glove, I was wondering if I could go to say Salvation army and pick up a used glove, reinforce the tips, and use that until I get more funds. Or is that a bad idea? And can I make my own arm guard? I'm usually very crafty, but I don't know if there's some sort of material requirement for any of these ones.


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## Bytesback (Apr 8, 2013)

Eilrymist- From what I've seen, fletching is simple enough and worth learning if your going to shoot longterm, but it does take some cash to get set up to fletch. You'd have to have a fletching jig, glue/tape, and feathers. I'm currently saving up to get set up, but a good setup will cost some cash. I'd let the shop fletch your first half dozen. If you get aluminum ones, a half dozen should last you for awhile. Don't get wood while learning, I bought cedar arrows to learn on and broke 3 in the first month by missing the target . If your going with the sage, I'd get some Easton Blues. Alot of people have had success with those arrows out of the Sage and they are pretty affordable.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

eilrymist said:


> But tell me to kill bambi's mother and I don't know what to do!


Think of it this way. You're not killing bambi's mother, you're killing that evil deer that wants to beat up little Baby Bambi and take all of his does!

Protect bambi, and kill his competition!


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

BarneySlayer said:


> Think of it this way. You're not killing bambi's mother, you're killing that evil deer that wants to beat up little Baby Bambi and take all of his does!
> 
> Protect bambi, and kill his competition!


LOL That seemed like a fitting response from someone going by BarneySlayer. Personally, I'd rather kill Thumper. I don't like rabbits for some reason. And I like fishing. Just... blood terrifies me. 

And Bytesback, it seems easy enough, but definitely not for now. And yes, I see that the Easton Blues are the ones recommended by everyone. I guess I'll be getting those. I'll call Twig up tomorrow to settle everything,


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E -

Easton is the largest if not only maker of aluminum arrows. They've been making them for well over 50 years. 
You don't have a lot of choices with heads for 1616s, any glue in target points or "NIBBs" will work. 
The feather size and shape really doesn't matter at this point, 3" parabolic are about pretty standard. 
Use bright colored feathers, makes them easier to see.

Most people here have had really good experiences with Lancaster, but if you like Twig, that's fine too. 

Once you know that you really like this stuff and you will be doing this for a while, then fletching and even string making become very big pluses.

To fletch, to really need some type of jig, and there are several on the market - and every body has their favorites. 
The big advantage to fletching your own arrows isn't the initial savings, it's being able to re-fletch arrows when the feathers wear out. 
I have aluminum arrows that have been re-fletched over a dozen times.

Viper1 out.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

There is nothing exotic about arm protection. There is a DYI section on this site that shows a number of guards. From plastic bottles to full leather working projects.

Gloves? To save money I just bought a cheap pair of tight fitting gloves and then glued pieces of nylon webbing onto the fingers. It worked, but it only saved me about $2 from just buying a real glove. Since it was winter, it did keep my hands warm, but in general, archery gloves are not that expensive. Like anything, they can be. Check out prices and see if it is worth your time and trouble.


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## Xero (Apr 20, 2013)

> started off at 25lbs. However, he's thinking of going up to 30lbs soon.


That's a negligible draw weight increase. Not really worth the cost of new limbs, arrows. 

I went from a Sage 40# to a Force Focus 24# because I needed to back off the shoulder strain. I'm keeping the Sage because I'll gain fitness and be able to use it down the road. If I were thinking about "going up to" a heavier bow weight, I'd be looking at 40# -- which requires different arrows to match. 

Sage, Razorback, Force Focus -- any of these take-down designs are a good choice. You can go with heavier limbs if and when. A 25# bow is great for target because it allows the archer to focus on FORM, and TECHNIQUE, rather than struggling w/ draw weight. 

Samick (Sage) offers a "Journey" model in 64" -- two inches longer than the Sage. Technology, design is affording a full draw in shorter bows. The Sage is not cutting any corners on bow length. It gets rave reviews all 'round. 

I went to a 66" Force Focus at 24# just because I'm partial to "long and willowy" as a general esthetic preference in most things. Mostly -- and I'm still swooning over this after two weeks of shooting every day in my barn, 100 arrows or more -- the lighter bow has much improved my form, allowed me to focus on form/technique. Shooting the lighter bow is sweet and smooth; the heavier bow is comparatively harsh -- this because of draw weight. 

Let me decide for you! 

NEW take down, entry level, draw weight at the 25# range. The Force Focus and Razorback run about $100, $110. Sage is a bit more $$$. This gives you warranty coverage, the option of swapping out limbs, modern features, modern options. 

Shooting glove -- The "Tab" is a very good option, some prefer it. And they're CHEAP. You can make one of your own! 

Arm guard -- Viper1 in this forum here, author of "Shooting The Stickbow" -- notes that you need one, design doesn't much matter. You can make one of these too. 

Matching arrows to your bow is crucial. I'm appreciating this after watching Joel in the shop "fine tune" my bow and arrows. I bought the fletching gear, after beating to death the vanes of my first arrows. The nice fletching jig runs about $125, fletching is $25 to $50 for a package of 100 feathers. It's nice to have the resources to repair damaged fletching, but you're not saving a lot of money by building your own arrows from bare shafts. 

Let's talk about where you're head is at. Limited budget, student (read impoverished and busy), and interested in archery. As a retired university prof., I can appreciate all this. Archery is a great recreation for clearing your head! It's the first exercise I've found that doesn't require that I sweat and strain. It's more for me about relaxing and re - creation, in that creative/creation sense of the term. 

You're accessing the ranges. Your boyfriend has a bow. You're likely to stick with it. This is not a sport that you outgrow, or burn out on I think. 

NEW 25# bow, entry level is not cutting corners. Spend in the $100 - $150 realm, get some matched arrows, and RELAX. You're not stepping into the unknown. You're opening a door into a sport you can grow with and enjoy.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Thanks to all who helped me on this thread!

Xero, I just got off the phone with Twig and finished my order. Got myself a Sage 25# and matching aluminum arrows (I'm worried about snapping those low priced cedar ones too quickly). They matched me with 1516's at my draw length and weight. 

The more I think about getting the bow and starting to really shoot my own bow, the more excited I get! And yes, I did end up finding great deals at Lancaster for Arm guards and gloves. Now, it's just finding a cheap quiver. For some reason, I'm partial to back quivers, JUST for looks, but I'll probably go with a side quiver because it's so much cheaper. 

I'll tell my boyfriend to stick with his 25# bow more and just suck it up. He's trying to be manly, I know!


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E - 

When you said "matched arrows", I got real nervous, but the 1516s if left full length should be fine. 

Think about a tab, rather than a glove and for a back quiver,think about making one.
I've made them from pant legs, old boots, can't remember what else.
And they still work after 35+ years... 

You might want to pick up a replacement string or two while you're at it.
IIRC the Sages come with a 16 strand Dacron string, and that's fine for a 65 - 70# version of the Sage, but not the weight you're getting.
14 strands of D97 is appropriate and fairly generic. It will also provide better nock fit. 
A lot of companies go with over-built strings with their bows, just because it's easier (cheaper) to make one string spec and ship it with every bow. 

BTW - tell your boyfriend not to worry, his bow is probably still heavier than yours, since he most likely has a longer draw length... 

Viper1 out.


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## Xero (Apr 20, 2013)

GREAT choice! Now I'm excited too! 



> back quiver,think about making one.
> I've made them from pant legs, old boots, can't remember what else.


Carpet sales have heavy, heavy tubes the carpet is rolled on. PVC pipe if you have that sort of stuff stowed in the barn -- (All sorts of stuff stowed in my barn. I refer to it as "barn ballast.") I like having my arrows in a tube that stands on the floor or hangs on a peg. 









This tube has an adjustable strap, could function off the back or belt; it's also adjustable for length and comes w/ a screw on cap so it functions as a tote and safe storage for arrows. Easton "Arrow Tote" at about $18. I just as soon not have stuff hanging off me when I'm shooting. 

I very much believe there's a "macho ethic" relating to males and draw weight. I read a LOT of posts to the effect, "I'm shooting a 60# but feel like 'I'm ready' for 75#." 

At 20 yds, the 25# recurve does everything the 60# recurve does -- even penetration of the target because the arrows are smaller diameter. I don't think much about draw weight, nor arrow velocity. But then I don't hunt. All the deer in my yard have names. 

This is Buttercup --


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## Bytesback (Apr 8, 2013)

Glad to hear your all set up. I really think you'll enjoy the sage, and shooting is a great way to relax. Let us know how the bow shoots for you when it arrives.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

The Sage is a dandly bow, and the proper string will really wake it up. 

FWIW, a 16 strand dacron string is approximately 700+ pound test--around 45# test per strand, give or take. A 14 strand Dynaflight '97 string is approximately 1,700 pound test--around 125# test per strand, give or take.

In my opinion, it's well worth the money to get with an experienced string maker for an 8-10 strand Dynaflight '97 with the appropriate size serving to fit the type nocks you are using. Even better, a 10-12 strand 8125G or a 14 strand 8190.

Even though as a newer archer you likely won't be able to take advantage of all the benefits, you should notice a slightly faster arrow, less vibration, less noise, and over-all a more pleasant shot. 

Chad


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Ahh I'll definitely look for another string. I've read on a lot of other Sage forums about the string being too heavy. When I get the bow and shoot it at the shop, maybe they'll have some in stock there.

Viper, they're leaving them uncut. They told me that they'd rather keep them long. Going to probably make a quiver out of this faux leather fabric I have laying around. I got a glove for real cheap, so I ended up going with that. I've never tried a tab, so next time I'm in the range, I'll ask if someone will let me try one. 

I like buttercup! See, this is why I can't kill a deer. They're too dang cute. I can kill a fish because they're delicious and not as furry and adorable. Deer may be delicious, but that face just wants you to love it.

And I'll tell my boyfriend to suck it up haha. I don't know what's so appealing about draw weight if you're shooting a target at 20 yards. Not like it really matters how hard you hit the target.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

Archery is much too complicated. For strings, I have old bows and use dacron B50, but for my 38 to 40 pound bows I use 12 strand strings. They are thin enough to turn freely in the arrow nock, but big enough to not cut into my fingers. I use a guy called "stilldub" on ebay that will make a custom flemish string of almost any color and length that you want. They are really beautiful strings and under 10 dollars. 

I also just went to a shop and they fixed me up with some carbon fiber arrows full length with 5 inch feathers that have been working well for me. I have shot each one hundreds, maybe thousands of times and they are still going. I did buy another half dozen so I could shoot more and walk back and forth less. Unfortunately, I have become completely addicted.

Good luck with your new stuff, may you have fun and offer some relief from the stress of school. I used skiing to give me some relief when I got my BSEE.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Ohh BSEE? I'm guessing BS Electrical Engineering? I'm going for my BS Chemical Engineering. Definitely need the stress relief! 

I'm going to check out stilldub. I'm still so new that I'll probably stick with my current string just for my brain and wallets sake. Poor wallet has taken a beating this pay check round. I see that he makes fast flight strings too, $12 with free shipping looks like a good price to me.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

First, I will admit--I'm a string fanatic, and have been for almost 20 years now. 

My biases aside, getting the proper string for a bow can make as much difference as getting the right arrows--moreso in some ways--and it's probably the cheapest thing you can do, other than tuning, to get the most from your set-up.

It floors me that it's also one of the most overlooked, underrated, and misinformed subjects in the sport.

I can't emphasize enough--get the right string if you want to get the most out of your bow.

The string is the bow's transmission. You don't put the transmission from a John Deere tractor into a Corvette, or vice-versa. Likewise, you don't put a string for a 80# bow onto a 25# bow--at least not normally. There are always specialty applications, particular preferances, etc.--exceptions to every rule. They are the exception, not the rule.

I'll pm you a link to some string information that may help.

Chad


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

eilrymist said:


> I'm going to check out stilldub. I'm still so new that I'll probably stick with my current string just for my brain and wallets sake. Poor wallet has taken a beating this pay check round. I see that he makes fast flight strings too, $12 with free shipping looks like a good price to me.


Stilldub has always treated folks great!


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

Yes. BSEE is Electrical Engineering. I ended up designing computer chips. It was a fun ride, mostly. Us EE types thought that CHem E was hard, you have my admiration and sympathy. 

Good luck.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

I think EE is hard. Id rather deal with chemicals all day than computer chips. My boyfriend thinks otherwise! Either way. Hope the economy doesn't kill engineering jobs, or starts funding more research so I can get into that. Love being a lab rat


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

One more thought. You might want to look at a chest protector. I see a lot of Olympic archery types using them. Both men and women. I screwed up my shot the other day and the string hit me in the chest. It hurt quite a bit. That is the only time it has done that but it did make me a bit gun shy for a while about shooting. I have since gone to using a tight fitting coat and being careful. 

One day I did something wrong and hit my arm with the string so much that it hurt right through the protector. I don't do that much, but when you do something wrong, the string can raise a welt. From the looks of the chest protectors that I saw on the internet, they would not have protected me where the string hit me. Something to think about.

When I started in EE we got to build actual things. With wire, solder, diodes, transistors, etc. I really liked that. I am kind of a hands on guy. Then we transitioned to building things out of integrated circuits. And, Or, Not, etc gates. Still fun and you could build bigger things. Then the industry changed and the Custom Integrated chip was introduced. I sort of fell onto the bandwagon. And followed it, putting more and more stuff on a single chip. One of the last projects I was on put several million transistors, plus a radio and receiver onto a single silicon chip. Interesting, but you never got to actually touch anything anymore. I understand the lab rat. You get to actually do things. But chemicals are hard. EE is just specialized physics, harder than physics but easier than chemicals.

good shooting.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

I'll keep that in mind. Its hot in so Cal right now, so I'll probably skip it until it happens (I know I know haha) maybe my boobs will protect me! ( are we allowed to say that on this forum?) 

And I guess the pain will serve as a good teaching guide? Im pretty sure pain means I did something wrong in my form.

Funny thing is, I find physics A LOT harder than chemistry. Give me multi calc, chem, anything, I'm fine. Give me torque, I get really irritated. Angular momentum is just awful too. I like the thermo and quantum bit of physics best


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

eilrymist said:


> I'll keep that in mind. Its hot in so Cal right now, so I'll probably skip it until it happens (I know I know haha) maybe my boobs will protect me! ( are we allowed to say that on this forum?)


No, your boobs will not protect you. Make sure, when you draw the string, to keep the strong on the side of your boobs that faces the target. Then it won't catch. I've caught my left boob on the string a few times with a longer bow. Looked like I got a hickey, but wasn't nearly as ... nevermind.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

E - 

Regarding chest protectors. Olympic shooters anchor under the chin. That brings the string closer to the body than the more "trad" side of face anchors. Very few Oly shooters shoot without one, while most "trad" types don't use one. Unfortunately body build and shooting form do matter. Paradoxically, the better your form, the more likely you will need one. 
However, if the string gets that close, simple things like slightly opening your stance (having your rear foot slightly forward of the front foot) or slightly bending forward at the waist may solve the the problem. 

Viper1 out.


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## eilrymist (May 20, 2013)

Haha I meant the boobs as a joke. Im wondering if they actually might get in the way! And getting a string snapping that does sound rather painful.

And Viper, Im starting to see what you mean about the difference of the olympic archers and trad archers after watching videos. As I start progressing, I think taking videos of my form and uploading them and linking them here (if that's allowed at all) for corrections can prove very helpful!


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