# Do we need range officials to make tight arrow calls for 3D?



## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

This title of this thread is a question that I pose to 3D shooters for national events...not intended for local events. my suggestion/ ? is for open A classes and up.

When the ASA began, range officials could be requested to make close arrow calls. I think it may be a good idea resume that. Here is a few reasons why?

If I'm incorrect, please forgive my ignorance: The major indoor spot shoots have officials that call arrows. ex Larry Wise does an excellent job for Lancaster. 

So why not 3D? 


There is a majority of brand shooters that participate in the pro classes. That fact proves that there are also a minority brand shot too. That leads to the possibility of team calls. 
Ive heard this complaint several times and have been told that team calls are encouraged. IF RANGE officials were to be used to make questionable calls, then that would remove the rumors. 
2. IT would ELIMINATE team/biased calls....this would help create a level playing field.

There are several people that shoot the pro class that do not receive any financial help. Regardless if your and all star multiple winner or a nobody like me, everyone should receive fair and un biased calls.

I have personally heard SR Pros argue, and stated, " You've not been shooting in this class long enough to earn that call" I had a double take on that....what difference does that make,,,its in or out...

3. Different groups call differently that others....that's a fact...some groups call real tight, and some do not. I have seen both, and benefited and been hurt both ways... IMHO, IT IS IMPOSSISBLE for all groups to call the same...heck, were humans... No one is perfect,,,,(not even you Kent Stigall lol) 

During the pro shoot-downs, range officials make the calls. Is the 40 targets shot prior to the shoot down round less important? I would think not because the running score is used to determine the winners. 

Just an Idea that I have heard discussed among shooters.... I suggested open A and above because these are the upper level ability classes. no intention of disrespect to the lower classes, there are so many classes and so few officials, have to draw a line some where.

Please give in put


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

How about this
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/01/electronic-target-scoring-systems/


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

JW, I'd be all for it, but I doubt they could swing it. Officials are hard to get already. It would require 1 or 2 more officials per range. It would be awesome though...


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Imho. Its a national event. Just makes common sense to have them


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

Very controversial subject for sure.
Maybe if the arrow had to be at some point actually breaking the line,or.............if the rings were different colorfoam and had to be touching the upper color to get the upper score.
Would be more expensive,but if we could get Budweiser "back"in it;the money would be there for all.
Just some thoughts from a village idiot.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

In my 18 years of shooting 3D I have seen it all. Some guys get down on there hands and knees and try everything amaginable to call it out. Then another group if its anywhere close it goes to the shooter. Shot with a group of really nice and all very good shooters in the Super Senior group in Florida last year. There was a bunch of very close calls.The arrow in doubt,that shooter was ask to look the other way. There was 5 in the group. The other 4 were ask by show of hand ,who thinks its in and who thinks it out. I thought it was a real fare way to settle the dispute. Sure a lot better than 1 guy doing all the calling. Then also the shooter didn't know who voted for it or against the shot. I felt fairly treated that way and if it was touching you got it and if it wasn't u didn't. Try it, we have been using it now in other groups and seems to be going over well. Thanks, Bryce----good idea.


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

I like that system "draw29".Very fair and non-exploitive.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Ummm to a point. 3x shooters and 1y shooter Y shooter has higher odds of being called out by team x.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!!

I mean for te PRO classes for sure these guys are shooting for a large sum of money and to call a close arrow would only make sense. The PRO class dont call there own arrow in the shoot off so I think having a Range Offical on hand to call a close arrow is a MUST NEED


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

I say, if there is a prize involved and you are a nationally recognized archery tournament-shooters should not be calling their arrows. May be hard to get that many knowledgable judges, but would sure put an end to a whole lot of complaining.


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## LIMBHANGER 36 (Aug 2, 2004)

draw29 said:


> In my 18 years of shooting 3D I have seen it all. Some guys get down on there hands and knees and try everything amaginable to call it out. Then another group if its anywhere close it goes to the shooter. Shot with a group of really nice and all very good shooters in the Super Senior group in Florida last year. There was a bunch of very close calls.The arrow in doubt,that shooter was ask to look the other way. There was 5 in the group. The other 4 were ask by show of hand ,who thinks its in and who thinks it out. I thought it was a real fare way to settle the dispute. Sure a lot better than 1 guy doing all the calling. Then also the shooter didn't know who voted for it or against the shot. I felt fairly treated that way and if it was touching you got it and if it wasn't u didn't. Try it, we have been using it now in other groups and seems to be going over well. Thanks, Bryce----good idea.


So what if it was a split vote? Two- ins and two outs?


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

I know a lot of guys who shoot the PRO class and each one I know has a large amount of ingerity but their human just like you and me, when we get a arrow called out that we think is in am sure they feel the same way we do!!! If there was a person to call the arrow that was close it would take the possiable antimosity (howevery you spell it) out of the picture that might be there if the arrow was called out by someone in their group!


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

My opinion is if it is that close it goes to the shooter.


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## NC ladyarcher (Jan 26, 2009)

Having range officials to call disputed arrows would negate a lot of if, ands, and butts. All sports have reffs


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

> My opinion is if it is that close it goes to the shooter


Right on!


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Close, that means different things to different people.


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## Lambo01 (May 22, 2013)

If you can't prove it's out you have to say its in.


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## mocheese (Dec 19, 2003)

Alpha Burnt said:


> Close, that means different things to different people.


Kind of what I was thinking!! If it's close and not touching the line, It's OUT!!! I've never understood why people have such a hard time calling arrows!!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

i don't think the range official would solve the problem of disputed calls. it would add more responsibility and stress onto the range officials.

i shot with one individual who was so bad when calling his own arrows that i'm determined to never shoot with him again if he's calling the arrows...i'm still kicking myself for not calling him on his blatant cheating.

to me it is not that hard to call an arrow. either its touching the line or it isn't. i find there's many people who still cling to the "pulling the line" philosophy. most of those folks are relatively new to the sport and are going off of what they learned at a local club shoot.

i really like the idea of the "voting behind the shooter's back". if there's a tie vote then it goes to the shooter. i'm not so sure this couldn't be incorporated into the current rules of the major 3d associations.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

LIMBHANGER 36 said:


> So what if it was a split vote? Two- ins and two outs?


We never had that happen but personally i would say go to the shooter. The other way would be to flip a coin and hold your breath. Range offical will never work at an IBO match because its to spread out.


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

I always say if it's 99.9% out it's 100% in .If it takes 4-5 guy's looking at it for more than a 1 min it's in or out .

That's why I always keep score ,you tell me what it is and I'll wright it down .

We just had a call like that in London KY this year .One guy in our group was shooting like crap .He didn't want to call an arrow in and it was tuching the line ,not pulling it but tuching it .We all over ruled him and the shooter got the 10.

I always say as long as there consistent about the calls .


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## Bearlee (Dec 24, 2009)

Consistency varies group to group but this pulling on the line and not touching it is a bunch of crap. The arrow must physically break the line not cause a crack to migrate towards the line. Ref's are the only way to consistently score the higher class and have integrity in the sport. Otherwise you will get pencil whipped.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I like the "draw29" technique


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

J Whittington said:


> This title of this thread is a question that I pose to 3D shooters for national events...not intended for local events. my suggestion/ ? is for open A classes and up.
> 
> When the ASA began, range officials could be requested to make close arrow calls. I think it may be a good idea resume that. Here is a few reasons why?
> 
> ...


First, whomever said that made a bad mistake! He basically said that where an arrow is in a target (how it is called) is partially determined by the archers "status"! Unfortunately this makes him appear, at best, to be less than a sincere arrow caller and at worst an arrogant, cheating *(&^% (jerk) of a butt kisser.

Secondly, I hope to one day, while calling one of your arrows, to prove to you just how perfectly imperfect I really am! 

Thirdly, I luv you man...........


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## archeryshooter3 (Apr 12, 2011)

I won't call my own arrow, and if I have to then I go by the rule of "if in doubt call mine out".


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

I like the idea but I think the problem for 3D is getting the man power to do it. For every target, you would basically need to have a range official that walks down to the target and scores it for them. That's at least 40 more volunteers to do this (we all know the ASA and IBO aren't going to pay for a range official) when most places run short on help already. For spots, it's much easier having a couple officials walk down the line of targets and call them due to the venue.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

J Whittington said:


> Ummm to a point. 3x shooters and 1y shooter Y shooter has higher odds of being called out by team x.


You called this right, J.W.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

I think it is a great idea in theory, but impractical to apply at least based on the current status. Too many extra people would be needed. But, I guess if they can round up enough volunteers, why not.

The thing that baffles though...especially considering the other pro thread...how is archery ever going to gain any credibility if such scoring activities and assertions do in fact happen? Justifies the call for an official scorer on every target.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Dont think every target would need an officicial. Most of the time, calls are obvious. Just the targrts that are disputed. I think there are enuff range officials now to do so.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

speaking of calling arrows....I was at a shoot and I was amazed at what some people were told if an arrow was in or out. 

For example....say there was a big hole gap under the line of the 12 ring.. as well as most of the 12 shot up....but there was a part of the line in place but it shift say about 3/4 of an inch down into the 8 ring....

They were told that since its touch the 12 ring (line) its a 12.... 

Funny how so many people have a misconception on what touch the line is to mean.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> Dont think every target would need an officicial. Most of the time, calls are obvious. Just the targrts that are disputed. I think there are enuff range officials now to do so.


How much time will that potentially add to a round of 20? Serious question. What if there are 2 or more calls that are needed at the same time on the same range? Heck, in Vegas or Nationals, one or 2 calls can hold the thing up for 5 minutes, and that's at 20 yards, on a line.

It's somewhat of a dismal discussion to be having anyway IMO...if there is teaming, or earning of stripes, or collusion, or pulling/pushing, or close enough calls being made, what's that say about the people participating in the sport? It's either in or it's out, and it really isn't that hard to determine 99% of the time. If people are unwilling to make accurate and consistent calls all the time, the sport will never be a legitimate one.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> speaking of calling arrows....I was at a shoot and I was amazed at what some people were told if an arrow was in or out.
> 
> For example....say there was a big hole gap under the line of the 12 ring.. as well as most of the 12 shot up....but there was a part of the line in place but it shift say about 3/4 of an inch down into the 8 ring....
> 
> ...


Easy fix....get targets that dont get shot up so easily.....OR SHOT THROUGH!

Im pretty generous to the group if there is a hole..... mainly because there are no lines, but even more so than that. when there is a hole where the arrow enters is not necessarily where it sticks - think of it like a funnel its going to go into the deep most tapered point and that has little bearing on exactly where it may ahve scored if we shot Rineharts


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

I like the system we have in open a we have 5 to 6 to a stake the majority makes the rules if 4 call it out and one says its in i have no problem.have you watched football or basketball games they have refs and we hate them and think they controll the games.if we had officials we would just complain about there calls.,when a target gets holes in it were the lines are gone it should be replaced ,that would help.years ago they did that.i just watched a bow junky vidio were Jeff Hopkins was really close to a eleven butt they all called it just out.you could tell he disagreed.the majority made the call.it works


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Could actually speed things up. Judge scores, scorekeepers write and others pull, then on to the next one. How would you like to be behind the group on the bow junky video trying to call jeff hopkins arrow?


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

jeff has won so much $ in archery, those boys not going to give him a smell !!!!

what video jimmy?


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

It's really not that hard to call an arrow in or out....make the call and move on. 

Don't try and call it in or out. Call it where it lies.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

No such thing as close. It is either touching the line or not. If it can not be determined then the benefit of doubt goes to the shooter.


Alpha Burnt said:


> Close, that means different things to different people.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Groups should be able to make arrow calls.
DB


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

The objective of scoring is to be consistent. With so many people scoring with different opinions with what arrows are in and out, Plus the directive given of "team scoring" having a range official to score disputed arrows does not hurt 3D archery, It would only help it. Other sports have refs. Do we not feel that our sport is just as important? Maybe the scoring during the pro shoot-down round should be done by the shooters as well. 


Great discussion on this thread.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

So this started with judges for Open A and up. How many classes are there? Open A, Semi Pro, Pro and anything esle?
So how many judges are really needed?
Money on the line I don't think anyone is going to just up and give someone that extra point. 

And then has there been instance of where someone has complained of bad score calls in these classes?


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Jerry are you sure you want the guy you had as a range official in Kentucky to call your arrows? He would have to get out of his chair. Then he wouldn't be happy and you can guess the results of his call on YOUR arrow. :mg::shade:


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

Bubba Dean said:


> Jerry are you sure you want the guy you had as a range official in Kentucky to call your arrows? He would have to get out of his chair. Then he wouldn't be happy and you can guess the results of his call on YOUR arrow. :mg::shade:


personally I like you on our range! Nothing like seeing the stopwatch come out when things get slow.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

Bubba Dean said:


> Jerry are you sure you want the guy you had as a range official in Kentucky to call your arrows? He would have to get out of his chair. Then he wouldn't be happy and you can guess the results of his call on YOUR arrow. :mg::shade:


Yeah, I'm pretty sure with the range official we had in London, if he has to walk down there, it is out! Unless there was food waiting for him at the target that is...

In all seriousness, while I like the idea, it would, without a doubt slow the range down at least a touch. I'm not sure if ASA is prepared to do that. It might be something to try for 1 class (maybe Open Pro), at 1 shoot and see what impacts it would have. If it was successful and didn't slow things down much, implement it a little more. If it didn't work well, scrap it.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

VeroShooter said:


> personally I like you on our range! Nothing like seeing the stopwatch come out when things get slow.


Stopwatch??? More like a tire iron!


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Every legitimate "pro" sport has officials making the calls. Maybe this is part of the problems getting 3D "legit". You cannot continue to let buds make your arrow calls, your group may show great integrity but who knows how the next are doing it. Only sport I can think of where you keep your own score is golf, but it is a totally different premise-they are not playing closest to the pin, it has to go in the hole. Start it in the lower ranks like HC and continue to the top, officials would get plenty of training for the calls and it would speed the groups up tremendously. Imagine, you shoot and while walking to the animal, the arrows are judged, judge tells scorekeeper scores, your designated "pullers" collects arrows and on to the next target. Food for thought.


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

^in response to this


Daniel Boone said:


> Groups should be able to make arrow calls.
> DB


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Alpha Burnt said:


> Every legitimate "pro" sport has officials making the calls. Maybe this is part of the problems getting 3D "legit". You cannot continue to let buds make your arrow calls, your group may show great integrity but who knows how the next are doing it. Only sport I can think of where you keep your own score is golf, but it is a totally different premise-they are not playing closest to the pin, it has to go in the hole. Start it in the lower ranks like HC and continue to the top, officials would get plenty of training for the calls and it would speed the groups up tremendously. Imagine, you shoot and while walking to the animal, the arrows are judged, judge tells scorekeeper scores, your designated "pullers" collects arrows and on to the next target. Food for thought.


Every ''pro''' sport??? I don't believe so. Golf off the top of my head is the person themselves that are responsible. Now, granted everyone at a major sees them, but they do make mistakes...and they have to take the penalty for those. It does happen.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

bhtr3d said:


> Every ''pro''' sport??? I don't believe so. Golf off the top of my head is the person themselves that are responsible. Now, granted everyone at a major sees them, but they do make mistakes...and they have to take the penalty for those. It does happen.


Officials are called out onto the course to make rulings in golf fairly often. However, I believe, in 3-D archery, each group should be able to score the round correctly......


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Alpha Burnt said:


> Every legitimate "pro" sport has officials making the calls. Maybe this is part of the problems getting 3D "legit". You cannot continue to let buds make your arrow calls, your group may show great integrity but who knows how the next are doing it. Only sport I can think of where you keep your own score is golf, but it is a totally different premise-they are not playing closest to the pin, it has to go in the hole. Start it in the lower ranks like HC and continue to the top, officials would get plenty of training for the calls and it would speed the groups up tremendously. Imagine, you shoot and while walking to the animal, the arrows are judged, judge tells scorekeeper scores, your designated "pullers" collects arrows and on to the next target. Food for thought.


The subject is of official scoring for Open A and higher classes. I for one will not accuse them of helping their buddy, same as cheating and that's what you referring.

The way you have it there'd be one judge for every group of shooters. 20 judges for each course of Open A, Semi Pro and Pro. If only these classes and only 3 ranges, that's 60 judges...

Again, has there been some complaint of scoring in Open A and higher? No complaint, no foul, no judges needed.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

sonny Ive not heard of 1 complaint in semi, the complaints Ive heard were in the pro classes


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> The subject is of official scoring for Open A and higher classes. I for one will not accuse them of helping their buddy, same as cheating and that's what you referring.
> 
> The way you have it there'd be one judge for every group of shooters. 20 judges for each course of Open A, Semi Pro and Pro. If only these classes and only 3 ranges, that's 60 judges...
> 
> Again, has there been some complaint of scoring in Open A and higher? No complaint, no foul, no judges needed.



Not exactly, re-read my post.


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

IF you would like to see 3D archery go mainstream, we will have to make changes in the game. The outcomes will be higher stakes, I am not accusing the pro's of cheating, I believe in my limited time shooting that there are some problems in the lower ranks. I suggest judges 1) to make results more transparent and factual (same judge making same call on every target, no "shooters benefit" if it is within 1/4" of line) 2) Speed the course along 3) adds great credibility to the outcome, giving others assurance. Cheating, fudging, leniency- call it what you want- you KNOW it happens. I have heard too many stories from others that have been turned off from the sport because of the unlevel playing field in the lower classes. Without participation from all good archers in the lower classes you are not pooling from the best of the best to make your "pro's", when and if they decide to step up. This is 3D archery, some are very resistant to change, but if you want to better the sport- this is not FUBU (for us by us). IF you want to establish TV spots and bigger venues and payouts you need big sponsors that will demand accountability, if we cannot agree or be willing to bend- they never will. I know this is off topic a smidge, but it does need to be addressed with people if you would like to see it better than what it is.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I like to call arrows in unless I see proof that they are out. If I'm down on my knees looking at your arrow, its out, I'm trying to find a way to call it in. If its so close that I can't tell if it is in or out then it should go to the shooter. Some targets are kinda tough, the outside edge of the line is not always as well defined as I would like it to be.


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

When you reference a "pro", I am talking one who makes his living competing, not "pro"moting product. There is a difference and the word gets used loosely among 3D'ers IMO.


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Alpha Burnt said:


> When you reference a "pro", I am talking one who makes his living competing, not "pro"moting product. There is a difference and the word gets used loosely among 3D'ers IMO.


A living or consistently throws up good scores...


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

hoytxcutter said:


> No such thing as close. It is either touching the line or not. If it can not be determined then the benefit of doubt goes to the shooter.


120% agreed!!!!! No pushing, no pulling, touching or not touching. If the lines chewed up and you cant tell then give the shooter the score. If your arrow's a 1/2" out of where the line should be then sorry no dice!


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Any time your dealing with foam targets.there is always going to be pushing,and pulling ,and holes in the targets,unless they replace the cores every day.there are both liberal ant tight callers in most groups,that's why you don't let one over ride the group.if there is 4 in a group 3 should look at a arrow in question,most asa there is 5 or 6. The system is fine now improve the lines and foam on the targets.


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

JimmyP said:


> Any time your dealing with foam targets.there is always going to be pushing,and pulling ,and holes in the targets,unless they replace the cores every day.there are both liberal ant tight callers in most groups,that's why you don't let one over ride the group.if there is 4 in a group 3 should look at a arrow in question,most asa there is 5 or 6. The system is fine now improve the lines and foam on the targets.


Only way to judge who is truly winning is with consistent score keeping. Judges would afford that.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Alpha Burnt said:


> Only way to judge who is truly winning is with consistent score keeping. Judges would afford that.


Again, you point to cheating. And what consisency? No two targets are shot up the same. No two judges will be judging the same even, not unless you talking about paid judges. Get cameras and we can have instant reply.

We ought to settle this with a Poll. The only thing is, the vast majority of those that would be effect aren't here....


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

SonnyThomas said:


> Again, you point to cheating. And what consisency? No two targets are shot up the same. No two judges will be judging the same even, not unless you talking about paid judges. Get cameras and we can have instant reply.
> 
> We ought to settle this with a Poll. The only thing is, the vast majority of those that would be effect aren't here....



AGREE with you Sonny - start a thread and have a POLL!!!
Good idea


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Howdy Jimmy, Like your post, but not all groups/people will call them that way. That's why I created the thread. have a consistence. by your description of your post...It should be IN or OUT for EVERYONE, not just a few. 



JimmyP said:


> Any time your dealing with foam targets.there is always going to be pushing,and pulling ,and holes in the targets,unless they replace the cores every day.there are both liberal ant tight callers in most groups,that's why you don't let one over ride the group.if there is 4 in a group 3 should look at a arrow in question,most asa there is 5 or 6. The system is fine now improve the lines and foam on the targets.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Babyk said:


> AGREE with you Sonny - start a thread and have a POLL!!!
> Good idea



good point K,,, if its the same judge per class it would be more consistant.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I enjoy the arrow calling and I have learned that the best shooter wins. A few years ago when I hadn't won any shoots I really worried about scoring and then I started winning a bunch of local shoots and I didn't want to be known as a pencil pusher so I started calling myself out and taking the lower score many times per round. I found that I was still winning.


In Kentucky I tied for first in open a with a shooter in my own group and he got a couple of good calls from me that weekend. The fact is he was really close to the 12 ring all stinking weekend and a couple calls went his way and a couple didn't and he deserved to beat me that weekend even though we tied.

To me the idiots who complain are poor group members that stand back and are quiet until a call doesn't go their way and then they gripe. They usually think they are better than they really are and use the poor call as a excuse for not getting on the podium.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Padgett said:


> I enjoy the arrow calling and I have learned that the best shooter wins. A few years ago when I hadn't won any shoots I really worried about scoring and then I started winning a bunch of local shoots and I didn't want to be known as a pencil pusher so I started calling myself out and taking the lower score many times per round. I found that I was still winning.
> 
> 
> In Kentucky I tied for first in open a with a shooter in my own group and he got a couple of good calls from me that weekend. The fact is he was really close to the 12 ring all stinking weekend and a couple calls went his way and a couple didn't and he deserved to beat me that weekend even though we tied.
> ...



I always try to call them like I see them, it can only be one of two things either in or out! I try to be as fair as possiable but your right some people you will never be able to please and they always blame a bad weekend on poor calls!!!!


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

I believe when Wayne Pearson started the ASA there was a wire or some type of metal ring in the ten ring circle. You were either inside the ring or outside, there was no touching, pulling, pushing..........whatever. If people are that incapable of making an honest call, maybe the organizations should go back to that method for the scoring rings. Of course it might not be to "arrow friendly", but it would eliminate the issue. 
To me, if you can't make a simple call on an arrow, archery is obviously too complicated of a sport for you. Just call the damn arrow, it's either in or out. Touching the line is in and if you have to stare at it for five minutes trying to decide it must be touching because you clearly can't say it isn't. Man up and accept the fact that your arrow was called out by the other people in your group. Don't pout, gripe or whine about it. Your arrow didn't push the line and cause you to miss it, your arrow displaced the foam where it hit and that caused the line to move, that isn't touching the line. This ain't T-ball and not everyone can win. Man-up, be honest and have some integrity!!


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