# crossbows for entire season



## 3-d krazy (Jan 15, 2005)

I just recently heard that Ky is thinking about allowing crossbows for the entire archery season verses the separate season like it is now. Just wondering how everybody thinks about this. The states main reason is thinning out the deer herd, I also think it would'nt hurt.
Thanks for your response.


----------



## KYShooter (Jun 23, 2004)

Personally, I dont think it will make a big difference one way or another. If they are doing it to thin herds though, I would think they would follow their same strategy as with the zoning. Maybe allow them in zones 1 and 2, but not 3 or 4. They dont really need thinning where I am, but get over in some western counties, it may be a different story.


----------



## Team Hoyt PA (Oct 25, 2003)

I support it. As long as i'm 50 yards away and don't hear...BOOOMMMM, I'm fine. 
Crossbow is archery, i don't care how ya look at it.


----------



## HydraPress (Dec 5, 2003)

I agree with you guys. I have no problem with it. They're legal here in Ohio the entire season and Ohio has no problems with crossbows.


----------



## Z-Archery (Dec 6, 2003)

*Crossbows*

I am very curious to know if the length of your bow seasons has changed due to crossbows. Here in Wisconsin, we allow crossbows for handicapp and seniors over 65. There is going to be a huge vote on April 11th, there trying to get crossbows in across the board. I personally think longterm, you will see a much shorter bow season. You will have alot of gun hunters who will take up crossbow bowhunting, since they wont have to practice,to become proficiate at what I here are quite long distances. I just dont want to lose the long season we have fought so hard to get. Z-Archery


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

almost thirty years of crossbows being treated correctly in Ohio and the season is still four months and bag limits (does, urban permits) have increased. Many villages and suburban areas have a "deer problem" but can't allow shotguns so the crossbow has become a favored means of harvesting problem deer


----------



## globemountain (Feb 16, 2005)

You still have to practice with a crossbow. The same principles of arrow trajectory apply. It's not the same as shooting a gun. The only advantage to using a crossbow is that you don't have to draw it to shoot. A major disadvantage is that they are much louder than the typical compound bow. I would much rather see someone harvest a deer with a crossbow than to see them wound one because they only practiced with their compound bow for about 2 weeks prior to the season starting. I don't like that "_I can hit a pie plate at 20 yards_" mentallity


----------



## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

One of the arguments that anti-crossbowers use is "crossbows will decimate the herd" and "shorten 'our' bow season". 

One only needs to take a look at a state where crossbows have been legal since 1976 for the answer to that. 

How has the crossbow affected the Ohio herd? 

Ohio first allowed crossbows in archery season in 1976. That year, the season ran from October 8 through January 22. From a total deer harvest (all weapons) of 23,431, the conventional bow harvest accounted for 1,638 while the crossbow harvest accounted for only 27. In ’76, Ohio issued 138,946 hunting permits and allowed deer hunting in 68 of its 88 counties. The deer permit success rate was approximately 16%.

By 2003, the season is running from October 1 through January 31. Compared to 1976, the total deer harvest grew 916% to 204,652. The conventional bow harvest of 20,552 ballooned 1254% while the crossbow harvest exploded to 28,352. Total archery kill was 48,904. Hunting permits sold were up 365% to 507,723, and all 88 counties were open for deer hunting. The deer permit success rate was approximately 40%.

The seasons haven't been shortened. They've been lengthened. You can now deer hunt in all counties in Ohio. Total kills are way up and they are killing some *whopper* bucks over there. 

Crossbows are just another hunting tool, not the herd decimator OR shorten the season as some would have us to believe..


----------



## bigE (Jun 11, 2002)

*I personally think long-term, you will see a much shorter bow season.* I agree with you that we will have a much shorter bow season if we do *NOT* vote crossbows in to join the bow season... Otherwise there *WILL* be a separate season for crossbows IMHO..& that *WILL* shorten the bow season.


*You will have alot of gun hunters who will take up crossbow bowhunting, since they wont have to practice,to become proficient at what I here are quite long distances.* Lets hope that they do practice & give them the same benefit of the doubt as we do with those that hunt as we do with compound bows. I am sorry to say but I know quite a few people that do *NOT* practice as you & I do with our bow... .

The Wisconsin Bowhunters Association *( WBH )* has recently done some testing *( long distance )* & said that they were able to group arrows/bolts at *90 yds* proficiently so I was told on the phone,(although on the website it says 64 yds). I was amazed at this finding (90yds) or for that matter 64 yds & I further asked was this test done off a bench???
The answer was *YES*, I asked if they could also test without a bench or anything to rest the crossbow on & was told yes they would do that but had not.... That was 2 weeks ago, I made a call to the same WBH director & asked if they had tested yet & was told NO.
I commented that the April 11 hearing was coming up & that it would be nice to have *ALL* testing completed.

Also the person doing the test is quite proficient with the crossbow so I was told by this director as he has been testing crossbows for years. IMHO this person can *NOT* represent the average person, that would be like having you as an example of the average person with compound, as I know you can group very well at 50 yds. while the average persons group may be 20 yds.

While looking at the WBH website I brought to the attention of the director that it says, *" WBH works to protect ALL HUNTING (including Gun), FISHING, and TRAPPING."* No comment from him.
http://www.wbhassoc.com/index.html ( highlight 'home' & click on 'accomplishments' )

As you know I do not hunt with a crossbow nor do I care to hunt with a crossbow, but half truths *I WILL NOT* condone, nor will I accept the WBH talking to me as if I was some bubba who lives in a van down by the river.

If you'd like you can give me a call Mark.

' bigE '


----------



## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

In Kentucky -

http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/0506seasons.asp?lid=1072&NavPath=C151


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

willie said:


> I'll bet you a C note they will never test off hand *OR* they wont release that information at the meeting.That 90 yards will shrink to 40 yards off hand - just like a compound bow.
> 
> The "test" is to do one thing - throw mud at crossbows.
> 
> That could backfire on them because accuracy is NOT A NEGATIVE IN HUNTING. :smile:



ever see Matt Cleland, Roger Hoyle or Dave Cousins shoot a compound at 90Meters? These are the guys whom the PBS claim can't shoot the same groups at 30 yards that Crossbows can at 65  . I think Hoyle shot something like a 348/360 at 90M-the ten ring is 12.2 centermeters-about 4 inches

You also wonder why those pro crossbow archers have yet to post a 900 at vegas-there are 5-10 each year from the compound archers


----------



## Team Hoyt PA (Oct 25, 2003)

jim despite scores and such....you know my opinion on them. 
But i just want to add this, right now i have NO future plans on using one.
The reason is simple ....they look big, clanky, and heavy to carry around. 
They also look like a burden to hold steady on an animal or even just sitting still.
About how heavy is a x-bow?


----------



## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

*I'm kind of curious as to who axed my post and why?? Most people would not have noticed if Jim C hadn't quoted it.*


Originally Posted by willie

I'll bet you a C note they will never test off hand OR they wont release that information at the meeting.That 90 yards will shrink to 40 yards off hand - just like a compound bow.

The "test" is to do one thing - throw mud at crossbows.

That could backfire on them because accuracy is NOT A NEGATIVE IN HUNTING.


----------



## 460461whatever (Jan 22, 2005)

*I don't care.......*

....what you kill a deer, or any other animal, with as long as you do it legally and humanely. I personally think that allowing crossbows during archery seasons opens up the oppertunity for road hunting poachers and shiners. I know there are archery poachers, I've talked with some and have found out some of there tricks, but I know of a lot more poachers with guns. They use guns because it's easier. Many of them get caught because of the noise they make. You give a poacher a reason to be driving around with a crossbow during a long season, nobody will hear the shot in the dark. I'd rather allow crossbows without concern, but I've been trying to break poachers of their habits for many years now with only minimal success. There aren't many crossbow owners in MN because , for the most part, they are a novelty here.


----------



## bigE (Jun 11, 2002)

willie, I was wondering where jimC got that & if it was reply to mine.

' bigE '


----------



## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

460461whatever said:


> ...I know there are archery poachers, I've talked with some and have found out some of there tricks, but I know of a lot more poachers with guns. ........... but I've been trying to break poachers of their habits for many years now with only minimal success. ....


If you know all those poachers and you truly want to "break poachers of their habits " you need to turn thier sorry butts in.

No, in states that allow crossbows the poaching is no more prevelent with crossbows than compounds.


----------



## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

bigE said:


> willie, I was wondering where jimC got that & if it was reply to mine.
> 
> ' bigE '


My post was a reply to yours.

These folks don't want the truth out about crossbows. They would rather spread the "90 yard weapon" lies in order to keep the crossbows out of "their" season.

Let us know IF you ever get an answer from them. But, we wont hold our collective breathes waiting on them.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

willie said:


> If you know all those poachers and you truly want to "break poachers of their habits " you need to turn thier sorry butts in.
> 
> No, in states that allow crossbows the poaching is no more prevelent with crossbows than compounds.



they also prefer a weapon that drops the deer in its tracks so they don't have to trail it through the night. I won't tell you how to do it but you can rig a 22 rifle to make less noise than a crossbow without much effort. Sure-its illegal but then again so is jacking deer and shooting them from a car at night with a ruger 10-22


----------



## Z-Archery (Dec 6, 2003)

*Crossbows*

I find this rather interesting, here,s" Pope and Youngs "policy statement
The Pope and Young Club was founded to promote bowhunting and to record for posterity the outstanding examples of North American big game animals taken solely with the hunting bow.
For the purchase of the Pope and Young Club, a bow shall be defined as a longbow, recurve bow or compound bow that is handheld and hand drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full draw or partial draw. Other than the energy stored by the drawn bow, no device to propel the arrow will be permitted.
Consequently, the Pope and Young Club does not consider the crossbow to be a hunting bow and will not accept any trophies collected by crossbow hunters. Further, the Pope and Young considers the use of crossbows during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
The Pope and Young Club therefore recommends the crossbow should not be considered for use in any bowhunting season. Also, the club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons and the use of crossbows for hunting be restricted to firearms seasons. Z~~~~~~~> Archery


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Z-Archery said:


> I find this rather interesting, here,s" Pope and Youngs "policy statement
> The Pope and Young Club was founded to promote bowhunting and to record for posterity the outstanding examples of North American big game animals taken solely with the hunting bow.
> For the purchase of the Pope and Young Club, a bow shall be defined as a longbow, recurve bow or compound bow that is handheld and hand drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full draw or partial draw. Other than the energy stored by the drawn bow, no device to propel the arrow will be permitted.
> Consequently, the Pope and Young Club does not consider the crossbow to be a hunting bow and will not accept any trophies collected by crossbow hunters. Further, the Pope and Young considers the use of crossbows during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
> The Pope and Young Club therefore recommends the crossbow should not be considered for use in any bowhunting season. Also, the club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons and the use of crossbows for hunting be restricted to firearms seasons. Z~~~~~~~> Archery



private clubs should have the right to tell their followers or minions what they can use. We who like crossbows have no use for this cult telling us what we can use. Their chicken little babbling about a serious threat has been proven a lie time and time again. This monument to ego enhancement used to ban high letoff compound bows to

in a decade P&Y is going to be asking us if they can hunt in our season


----------



## Tim4Trout (Jul 10, 2003)

*Pope & Young DOES NOT have authority to define what constitutes a hunting bow*

Commentary

IMO

While they are certainly entitled to establish their own parameters by which an animal taken must meet to be qualified for inclusion in their " record book ", Pope and Young DOES NOT have any authority to define in general as it pertains to hunting overall what is or is not a hunting bow.



> Further, the Pope and Young considers the use of crossbows during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
> The Pope and Young Club therefore recommends the crossbow should not be considered for use in any bowhunting season. Also, the club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons and the use of crossbows for hunting be restricted to firearms seasons


At a time when hunter numbers are in decline and bowhunting has been officially targeted for elimination by prominent and well financed anti hunting factions, all those who engage in efforts which inhibit the possibility of increasing the number of bowhunters, ( which increases our " clout " in battling against such factions ), whether the bowhunter is using a crossbow -- ( WHICH IS A BOW -- as it uses the same laws of physics to propell an arrow towards an intended target as a conventianal bow ), or the bowhunter is using a conventianal bow are IMO a more real threat to the future of hunting than a bow held back by mechanical means, and those within the hunting community who engage in such efforts should be classified IMO as " cannibals and useful idiots ".

As a result I DO NOT support Pope & Young's position and feel that such statements as quoted above to be detrimental to bowhunting's future.

IMO Pope & Young needs to learn what the true threats to the future of bowhunting are.

The usage of a device ( such as a crossbow which IMO provides in certain cases a slight advantage over a conventional bow ) should not be considered as such a threat.

While I am not saying that hunting should be as easy as falling off a log, we must not set standards so high that such discourages participation by current and/or potential future hunters.

---

As it pertains to hunter ethics, we must heed caution in setting the standards for what is to be considered as ethical. More important is that we must not allow anti hunting factions or the general public, especially if influenced by such factions, to set such standards.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

P&Y is going to hurt archery in the eyes of the nonhunting public for a couple reasons

I am the only person in an office of say 50 who actively hunts (a couple guys will go bird hunting with friends and one guy took a deer with a rifle on his dad's farm years ago). half the office are dems, half are gop. I have never heard anyone say anything bad about me hunting deer since I mostly hunt for meat and shoot does as often as bucks--many of these people preface a comment-that they don't like "trophy" hunting

the "we do it the hard way" doesn't resonate with most people-they see such braying as macho nonsense and false elitism. what makes archery hunting hard is the range of the bow-not the shooting of a deer at 20 yards

the we don't like accuracy crowd doesn't help either

as I said, if P&Y wanted all its members to dress in loincloths like Ishi or in doublet and hose like RobinHood that's fine with me but don't act like all of us should follow their silly rules


----------



## Z-Archery (Dec 6, 2003)

*Crossbows*

Here in Wisconsin, The department of natural resouces allows xbow hunting for the handicap and seniors over 65. I think thats OK as long as you have your special permits, and for those older, who still love to get out there and participate. It gives some , I"m sure the will to carry on traditions, that they may not be able to do otherwise.
Here in Wisconsin we registered 518,618 deer in 2004 season. Archers alone set a new record of 103,571. If hunter numbers , say they increase by crossbow hunters and more deer registered by crossbow useage, you possibly could see 200,000 deer taken by bow per year . That would probaly set the seasons length to be shortened after a few months or years.
I myself am not quite ready for a fulltime crossbow season, but the big vote is on April 11, we have to waite and see what happens. Z~~~>Archery


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2005)

I beleive that both Ohio and Ontario have had crossbows in the archery season for over 30 years now, we have not seen any decrease in herd numbers or even a question of shortening the season. I also haven't herd of any animal numbers decreased by hunting ever.


----------

