# Brady Ellison's form is physically not possible



## TheRohBoat (Sep 4, 2012)

I understand that Brady Ellison and our RAs has gotten to where he is through years of training, shoot millions of arrows, and have the support of a squad of elite coaches. I am by no means comparing myself to him, nor attempting any of the training regimes they goes through.

Anyways I find his form to be very distinctive. How is it that he can get so much rotation (twisting through open stance), and have the bowstring not hit his arm? Watching him from behind, it seems though as if he as a lot of twist, enough for the string to dig into his chest guard and hit his arm guard. (Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmQwBgbWOAg) But watching him from the front clearly shows that the string has clearance of both the arm guard and chest guard (Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4niLHUnqxws). It just seems like it's not possible. I wish I could to an X-Ray or a motion capture of him shooting to fully understand what's going on... It all seems complicated and hard to put my finger on it. I know from a technique standpoint why these principles are adopted, but how are they?

Also how does he keep his left shoulder so low? 

I ask because his form is clean and tight, and makes the most sense to me in terms of bracing the weight of the bow. Other notable examples of what I'm talking about include Joe Fanchin, Heather Koehl, and Jeremiah Cusick. I can only dream to shoot like they do. 

Any help to shine light on how it's done would quench my curiosity. Thank you.


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## cgs1967 (Sep 29, 2011)

Everyone has a different style and as long as the style works for the individual and they can repeat the same thing over and over they shoot well. The worlds top shooters are somewhat naturals. Kind of like Tiger Woods. Many practice as hard or harder and will never be that good and you just can't teach natural talent in any sport.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Brady, Jake and a very few others have been able to finally achieve a front shoulder position that is just typically not possible for the amateur archer to achieve. Only a few archers in the world can do this. Luis Alvarez of Mexico is another that I've noticed who can achieve this unusual front shoulder position. Several archers have their shoulder as far in as Brady does, but nobody keeps it as low as he does.

In 2004, Tim Cuddihy was also in this position. I don't recall Dave Barnes having quite the same inward shoulder position though.

But you are right. Brady is unique in this respect. To the trained eye, you can see how he stands apart in the sport, achieving this unique front shoulder position in a most distinctive manner.

I attempted to learn to do this in 2006/2007, but without success. Of course, I was not training full time, and had already learned to shoot another form, so it just wasn't meant to be.

I wouldn't spend much time dreaming of shooting like they do however. Why? Because if you watch the Olympics or World Championships, and are objective in your review, you will soon realize that there are many ways to be successful in this sport. Archers who shoot like Brady represent only a small percentage of those who reach the finals in major world archery events. Many others have success with more conventional styles of shooting, as well as some you might describe as rather unconventional. 

Our most recent 2x Olympic gold medalist - Marco Galiazzo of Italy, shoots nothing like this. His release is very "dead" and somewhat odd in fact. But you simply cannot argue with his results.

So go find your own way. It may be the way that Brady shoots, and it may not.


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## TheRohBoat (Sep 4, 2012)

Thank you Limbwalker. Your thoughts are much appreciated. I understand that many successful shooters use different techniques, and as you said a ten is a ten. When I meant by dream to shoot like them I meant that I wish I could shoot at that level, though I wouldn't say no if I could one day be able to adopt that kind of form. Many great shooters have used different techniques to become very successful, and perhaps it is my youthful foolishness which believes that someone else's form is the best form. But I will continue on my journey with what you said in mind.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

i think part of it might be that his head is not right over his spine but over his chest and actually closer to being over his right foot after he get to anchor. I think that helps you keep the shoulder low and and toward target... but it isn't easy to do. If you don't set the shoulder down and out at the start with tight triceps its so easy for the bow shoulder position to be lost. 

I know they use training aids like the Flexor system and of course physical therapist that can advise them on how to achieve certain movements and position. From what Kaminski states in the ad for Flexor, it really helped him and there was a picture on twitter of him using it in London.


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## TheRohBoat (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm no coach, but it looks like he's leaning back, but also leaning forward at the same time... Crazy


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> From what Kaminski states in the ad for Flexor, it really helped him and there was a picture on twitter of him using it in London.


Jake is a great pitch man. That's for sure.

I agree that the benefits from the flexor system make sense. My wife bought me some of the balance balls for Christmas last year and they do make you very aware of your balance. Good training aid.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Brady, Jake and a very few others have been able to finally achieve a front shoulder position that is just typically not possible for the amateur archer to achieve. Only a few archers in the world can do this. Luis Alvarez of Mexico is another that I've noticed who can achieve this unusual front shoulder position. Several archers have their shoulder as far in as Brady does, but nobody keeps it as low as he does.
> 
> In 2004, Tim Cuddihy was also in this position. I don't recall Dave Barnes having quite the same inward shoulder position though.
> 
> ...


John,

Completely agree! Bruce Lee had a very similar view of the differing styles of martial arts/self defense techniques. He said ""no way" _*is*_ the way ... absorb what is useful to you, and reject what is not useful to you.


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## RackAttak (Mar 7, 2012)

He can't do it the same every time. So it works.


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## OCBrent (Sep 27, 2007)

Linked here is an animated GIF of Darrell Pace. Posted by others in the past. Take a look at the frames after he comes to anchor, and that Downward Slopping Upper Bow Arm. 

Now, without hurting yourself, Go to a mirror and see if you can get your arm to do that.  I can't. I wonder if that's from an industrial or farm accident.  But, it sure looks like something that would "lock" solidly into place if you could.

http://mapage.noos.fr/ltikf/images/Darrell-Pace.gif

Brent


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Roll your front shoulder back and then slightly shift your upper body off center - to your draw side - like unevenly stacked blocks - and you can get it to look similar. Don't think that's it exactly What he is doing though.

Here thread where an AT poster is doing what I said and has the same looking bow are. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2131715


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Dacer said:


> Here thread where an AT poster is doing what I said and has the same looking bow are. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2131715


not quite. The AT poster has his arrow the same height as his shoulder which is not in alignment. In the Pace gif, his arrow is several inches above his shoulder.


Chris


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

chrstphr said:


> not quite. The AT poster has his arrow the same height as his shoulder which is not in alignment. In the Pace gif, his arrow is several inches above his shoulder.
> 
> 
> Chris


Yea thats true. Bad example.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Don't forget that everyone's neck length is different, so if you're just looking for the arrow well above the front shoulder, that will depend as much on the length of an archer's neck as anything else. Long necks and low shoulders (like I have) lend themselves well to having a nice gap between that front shoulder and the arrow.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> Don't forget that everyone's neck length is different, so if you're just looking for the arrow well above the front shoulder, that will depend as much on the length of an archer's neck as anything else. Long necks and low shoulders (like I have) lend themselves well to having a nice gap between that front shoulder and the arrow.


yes, that is true.

Chris


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Not sure how to get _this_ guy's shoulder low beneath the arrow. _His_ form looks a little physically impossible, too :slice:....


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Is that Arnold on the left?


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

The Austrian Oak himself. And I believe Frank Zane is the other archer (using a single finger string hold, I believe).

You know, Arnold at age 20 was the Curling Champion of Europe (not barbell curls, but rather






. 

I wonder if the skills necessary to excel in that sport are a good lead in to archery aptitude?


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

I think exceling in any sport can give an advantage


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

Interesting!



lksseven said:


> The Austrian Oak himself. And I believe Frank Zane is the other archer (using a single finger string hold, I believe).
> 
> You know, Arnold at age 20 was the Curling Champion of Europe (not barbell curls, but rather
> View attachment 1868695
> ...


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## OCBrent (Sep 27, 2007)

> You know, Arnold at age 20 was the Curling Champion of Europe (not barbell curls) ...


Arnold's Dad was an Ice Curling Champion. I don't think Arnold was himself.

At age 20 our past State Governator was Mr. Universe . 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_schwarzenegger

But, having examples around you that are successful, I'd think would be very beneficial to one becoming successful themselves.

Impressive life achievements he's certainly done, no doubt, but unfortunately for my State, he's not going in the books as a State Governor champion.

Brent


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

OCBrent said:


> Arnold's Dad was an Ice Curling Champion. I don't think Arnold was himself.
> 
> At age 20 our past State Governator was Mr. Universe .
> 
> ...


I got some of the details wrong - at _17_ years old, he was _junior_ curling champion of Europe.


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## TheAncientOne (Feb 14, 2007)

lksseven said:


> The Austrian Oak himself. And I believe Frank Zane is the other archer (using a single finger string hold, I believe).


It looks like Frank installed his limbs backwards.

TAO


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

TheAncientOne said:


> It looks like Frank installed his limbs backwards.
> 
> TAO


And him being a school teacher!


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