# VAPs or ACE



## marchingarcher (Sep 10, 2016)

I was wondering which arrow would be better for FITA field? What are some of the pro/cons of both the VAP and ACE.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

A/C/E is the better arrow of the two, but not by that much, esp. if you're talking about the V1's.

Recurve - A/C/E's for sure. Compound, I am not so sure.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

*Your answers will vary depending on whom answers you. If they gap, string-walk or have a sight. I just switched to ACE. They are more expensive, faster but, my gaps shrunk from 40 to 101 yards. Arrow flight is arrow flight. VAP's are awesome. Cost is lower and they are my control group to compare the ACE. Just my three cents.*


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## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

ACE shaft is tapered/barreled and VAP is parallel, which probably makes ACEs a little weaker than VAPs at the same spine (could be a pro/con if you're looking at the used market). ACEs are great and if cost isn't an issue, I'd get ACEs!
The Easton cost-equivalent to the VAPs are the ACCs. If you need a lighter arrow, the VAP has less gpi starting at 1000 spine and lower compared to ACCs (and ACEs).


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## marchingarcher (Sep 10, 2016)

thanks for the information. I think i will end up getting the ACE.


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

ACCs weigh a ton. I dont' recommend them to low poundage recurve people because unless you're pulling over a certain amount of weight you will "run out of site" or for barebow, have to point at the planet Venus. 

ACE's would be my arrow if I could thrown down $315 for shafts alone. Which I can't.

so I shoot Victory. And they've beaten ACE's and X-10s and McKinney II's. 

Higher p


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Don't ignore the ACG, which is much more comparable in this case.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

>--gt--> said:


> Don't ignore the ACG, which is much more comparable in this case.


The best buy in arrows for serious archers IMHO.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

StarDog said:


> ACCs weigh a ton. I dont' recommend them to low poundage recurve people because unless you're pulling over a certain amount of weight you will "run out of site" or for barebow, have to point at the planet Venus.
> 
> ACE's would be my arrow if I could thrown down $315 for shafts alone. Which I can't.
> 
> ...


In reality, at low poundage bows shooting say 1500 or 1300 spines, the ACCs don't way much more-if any more than the ACEs. its when you get into the heavier poundage does the gap increase. My son was shooting ACEs when he was one of the top Bowman then Cubs in the Country and Don Rabska noted that the ACC at his spine was about the same weight and half the price (we were going to a field shoot and I was worried about his ability to judge yardage and the course was unforgiving for missed shots). SO I bought him some 1500 spined ACCs and he shot them well and a month later ended up shooting a mid 1300 score at the NTC and winning with the ACCs. 

I haven't looked at the charts in a week or so but IIRC at that spine he was shooting, the ACE and the ACC both weighed about 5.1 GPI


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

I got some 570 ACE's and had a terrible time tuning them, Grant kindly sent me some 600 VAP V6's and had them tuned within 30min, I was so happy I got some V1's and been shooting them ever since.

Victory is a good price and group very well. 


It's how well you can get a tune that really matters, far more than how much your arrow costs, I used 550 C1's before the ACE's/VAP and won Euro 3D's with them.


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## marchingarcher (Sep 10, 2016)

I am shooting them out of a 55# compound and i have some one selling ACE at same price as Vaps.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yup, the difference between A/C/E and A/C/C in the weakest spines is negligible.


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## 10X Archer (Mar 7, 2016)

From my experience A/C/E's shot better then VAP's but were very fragile. For field I would go with VAP's, or alternatives such as MK2, CX .166 and GT pierce.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Jim C said:


> In reality, at low poundage bows shooting say 1500 or 1300 spines, the ACCs don't way much more-if any more than the ACEs. its when you get into the heavier poundage does the gap increase. My son was shooting ACEs when he was one of the top Bowman then Cubs in the Country and Don Rabska noted that the ACC at his spine was about the same weight and half the price (we were going to a field shoot and I was worried about his ability to judge yardage and the course was unforgiving for missed shots). SO I bought him some 1500 spined ACCs and he shot them well and a month later ended up shooting a mid 1300 score at the NTC and winning with the ACCs.
> 
> I haven't looked at the charts in a week or so but IIRC at that spine he was shooting, the ACE and the ACC both weighed about 5.1 GPI


1500, 1300 and 1150 spines I always recommend ACC over ACE (or any other arrow), the next size up the internal diameter changes and it's not that good option anymore, but still great for shorter distances.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

zal said:


> 1500, 1300 and 1150 spines I always recommend ACC over ACE (or any other arrow), the next size up the internal diameter changes and it's not that good option anymore, but still great for shorter distances.


agree-half the money, no difference in performance at that size.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

You can't even detect the barrel taper in an A/C/E at those sizes, which makes me wonder why they even make them below 900 spine or so.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

So I bought some VAP shafts because I was thinking of switching to them from ACCs, but my husband has a terrible time with the glue-in points of his VAPs coming out if he has to pull them out of wood. (Points didn't come out with ACCs even though they were just hot-glued in, and the VAPs are epoxied.) Is it my imagination or do those Tophat points have a bulge that makes them hard to pull? And are there other brands of points that you can shoot with VAPs? Is there some trick with the type of epoxy?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I thought points were supposed to pull out if you hit wood. 

Not sure how you're doing your shaft prep, but if I epoxy in points to VAP's, they ain't coming out.


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## Rael84 (Feb 22, 2016)

I had trouble with keeping inserts in VAPs until I thoroughly cleaned the inside of the shaft with a stiff bristled pipe cleaner and alcohol. I used the loctite 2-part cement epoxy after that and nearly a year on haven't had further problems.


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## beefstew27 (Mar 18, 2008)

I switched from ACE's to VAP V1's when I pulled 4 ACEs out of a target at 70m and they had shattered. (Recurve)
I switched from VAP V1's to ACE's when I had 3 VAPs splinter and sliver down the shaft when I put points in. 

As far as groups go - I personally shot better groups with V1's. 
As far as overall quality goes - they're about the same in my opinion. I'd pick the ACG or x10 shaft


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## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

I use the Bohning Blue Low Melt Glue, and if you use a lot of glue and twist the shafts of the points as you insert them into the shafts of the arrows, they hold extremely well, then if necessary you can remove the shafts later. I haven't had an issue with my VAP points coming out once I figured this out.

If you want them to stay in permanently then super glue is the route to go.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I'm not sure what kinds of targets you guys shoot at, but I can't remember when I've last broken an ACE from the point end. Impact breakages at the nock end, yes, but even shooting at wooden frames, I can usually get them out in one piece.

Maybe it's some specific spine ranges, as I generally shoot arrows from 370-430. I think I've used about 10 dozens in last 12ish years, and still have about four full working dozens and about 30 odd mixed arrows for blank baling left. Most (other than competition sets) are so worn that there's no labels left.

Always used the white hot melt with all arrows, apply properly and there's zero problems.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> I thought points were supposed to pull out if you hit wood.
> 
> Not sure how you're doing your shaft prep, but if I epoxy in points to VAP's, they ain't coming out.


Yeah, maybe the difference from the ACC's is that those Tophat points are so long and pointy that they drive in deeper, and maybe it is a good thing the points pull out. We do prep with Q-tips and rubbing alcohol. Maybe the pipe cleaners would be better.


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## dd900 (Apr 18, 2013)

From my experience with my VAP's and my unerring ability to put them in two by fours, railroad ties, or tree's, the points don't come out at all. I have had to get a chisel to remove the arrow. And this is just with normal hotmelt not epoxy. 

The extra pointy point does seem to let them drive in further yes.


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

Laurie Borealis said:


> Yeah, maybe the difference from the ACC's is that those Tophat points are so long and pointy that they drive in deeper, and maybe it is a good thing the points pull out. We do prep with Q-tips and rubbing alcohol. Maybe the pipe cleaners would be better.


I've not had the same problems.
I'm not very good with prep either. I do use gobs of blue melt though. enough that when I put in the point, it goops on the shaft, and then I wipe off the excess.
Maybe your husband is stingy with glue and epoxy


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

I'm shooting the VAPs for years now. First with the original points from Victory, later the Tophat break offs.
I clean the points and shaft with 70% alcohol with cotton pads and q tips, glueing with simple epoxy. 
Never had any problem on different materials of targets.

BTW, i prefer the old school epoxy glues not coming as a injection. just something like that:
https://www.amazon.com/Bob-Smith-In...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8VWA3TZR6JY080P4QXD4
(mid cure, "UHU" in Europe)

I tried the blue Bohning hot melt (lost points), and "elastic and shockproof" super glue (some points rattled after some time).
Maybe it's not without a reason why Easton and Mckinney recommend epoxy on all carbon shafts.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I've been shooting the same batch of ACE's I bought several years ago, they have been extremely durable and only damaged a couple over those years by hitting a metal stake. I don't use them for 3D anymore for that reason, plus I really don't like 3D unmarked. Lol


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## manderson1 (Jun 14, 2016)

I am in a situation that sounds similar to the original question. I have ACEs and V1s available to me, but I have not shot either one. Are there any compound shooters who could weigh in on tuning and grouping? I shoot a 60lb compound out to 90 m


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## BlakeHunter (Jan 31, 2017)

Just got new vap tko v1s and they are shooting great. Quick to tune and group better than easton full metal jackets out of same set up. +1 for vaps


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## kcchiu (Nov 21, 2011)

I always wondering these two


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## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

I use VAPs with both compound and recurve, with no issues. I have yet felt that the VAPs were holding me back. If I shoot a good shot those arrows go where they are suppose to, and really that is all you can ask.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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