# Spin wings vs. rubber veins for recurve



## Toivola (Jan 21, 2008)

Hey all, I'm currently using spin wings but am starting to get real tired of losing fletchings... constantly. I like the way spin wings work, but are they worth the pain of fixing them ever other week? I'm shooting ~45lbs on the fingers with 610 navigators if that changes anything. Let me know what fletchings you like and why!

-Toivola


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Toivola,

I personally am using flex fletch vanes. They require work to make them stick, because the release compound they use to get the vanes out of the mold is petroleum based. However, I've done the vane prep (it does take some time, but not complicated), and only had 1 vane out of 4 dozen arrows not stick the first time around. 

I know others have used AAE elite plastifletch with good results, and less work in terms of vane prep.

I switched over for the same reason you named: delicate vanes. Since I'm not a 1275+ FITA shooter (yet ), I do miss the bale at 90 occasionally. I also don't own a good outdoor matt, so I shoot on bales. There are always soft spots on hay bales, especially when I shoot an arrow right in between layers. So, the arrow would bury itself in either grass, or in hay bales, and usually through several layers of cardboard as well, tearing spinwings and kurlyvanes, or bending them up to the point of altering impact areas. I would refletch a bunch a year, IIRC around 12-20 arrows' worth. 

After shooting flexfletch for 2 years now, I've refletched zero. I've had some passthroughs, but the vanes were only marked up, no damage or weird shapes. I expect to shoot these arrows another full outdoor season easily. 

I will note one thing though, if you want a lot of FOC, then spinwings are your better bet. Spinwings weigh something like 2 grains for 3 of them, the vanes weigh 3 or 4 grains apiece. That will change FOC a bit. 

I personally have noticed the same wind performance from both spinwings and vanes, and we're talking 15-20 MPH gusts that will really move both you and arrow around.

Hopefully some of the other vane shooters will weigh in with their observations.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i have seen very few,in fact i can't recall any offhand, elite archers who are NOT using spinwings for outdoor fita.....ALL the koreans use them and we all know how good they are!!......if only for that reason i use them too....although i am not even close to being an elite archer...........


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## VinZ (Apr 30, 2007)

I've tried spin wings and switched to an other vane for the same reason. This winter I am trying the blazer vanes. Haven't tested them outdoors but indoors they are nice although they look a bit 'weird'. Last winter I've tried bi-delta's (mainly because they look cool). They work like a small vane in my option. They work in my opion.
I've also tested K-vanes. Those are nice. They are a kind of 'glue on spin wings' with a fletching device. here is a link http://www.bowsports.com/acatalog/Bowsports_Catalogue_Fletchings_110.html You can even use the left over double-sided stick on strips for a normal spin wing for emergency repairs. The solids are new and should be more durable. 
I've tested more vanes. People thought feathers on ACE don't work. Well...they do, but I don't recommend shooting long distance. The arrows where also stiffer with feathers than with AAE. They work very well for indoor (but need some care).
As you can tell I like experimenting. Next time (when my feathers are broken) I want to try 4” killer vanes on a ACE


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## Pete731 (Aug 9, 2002)

Spine Wing vanes are good, lots of elite shooters use them but it is wrong to think that a damage Spine Wing will not affect arrow flight. 

For this reason, I prefer 1.75" Flex-Fletch for my olympic bow. On my compound I use 1.87" Flex-Fletch and they stick and recover the original shape even after a passthrought.

I rather take 20 min more of shooting than fixing my Spine Wing. 

I've shot a lot of 300+ 90m round in tournament with them. My highest is 311 with 1.87" Flex-Fletch. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to reach my full potential with them. 

N.B. Plastic vanes will cut down some speed and make your arrow react stiffer a bit. Flex-Fletch need some prep if you glue directly on the shaft, with wraps, it stick super solid but you will add 3-5 more gr. in the back.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Another vote for the Flex-Fletch. I use the 187 on my ACEs for FITA and the 212 on Navigators for field. The only other vane I would consider is the AAE Plastifletch Max Target, which I'm using indoors this season.

Dave


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## voxito (Apr 16, 2006)

I shot spin wings for 2 years, then shot 187 flex fletch for a year. If you hate fletching those spins, get some vanes. I recommend the spins because they're lighter and spin your arrows faster. 

And if you've ever heard Coach Angelo talk about equipment you've heard him say "champion make champions." That means, as soon as you can duplicate the guy wearing the gold, there's no reason you shouldn't have at least a silver on your neck. When you see everybody that's anybody in the rankings use spin wings, there must be something to it. I got those J&J wraps for my arrows, and as soon as somebody can sell me some 500 spine x-10s, or trade for my 550s, they're going on em, and they should make fletching much easier.


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## Speedyts49 (May 11, 2006)

I switched from spinwings to AAE Plastifletch vanes because I got tired of replacing the spinwings every time I shot. Also as calbowdude mentioned a pass through when shooting into bales will destroy the spinwing but the rubber vane at least in my experience will stop and it unaffected.


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

I use the Plastifletch Max 2" shield cut on my 610 Navs with about 44# on my fingers. I got tired of repairing Spinwings from 90m misses, passthrus, and collisions. Dick Tone, coach and owner of AAE/Cav., suggested the Plastifletch Max, but was very specific about how to orient them. He told me to put them on straight, with no offset, but with a helical clamp. He said that would give me greater downrange speed, as compared to the SpinWings. All I can say is that I notice no difference in grouping, but the arrows do not appear to parachute at 90m, even into the wind, and that after misses and passthrus, the originals are still on there. I like them and cannot see myself ever going back to the SpinWings.


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

Well, I might be a little bit biased because I'm selling them now tongue but I've been shooting them for a couple years, and have really liked them. That said...

Consider the XsWings by Sitar. They're similar in materials and methods to Spin Wings, but I feel a much superior execution. They're a heck of a lot tougher (they feel about as stiff as K Vanes) and I've been able to shoot them through my backstop (multiple layers of canvas and Astro-Turf) with no trouble most of the time- just straighten them out with a fingernail and go back to shooting.

Dare I say, in some cases, they might even be more durable than rubber vanes. Through a pumpkin (don't ask!) the XsWings cut right through, but the pumpkin had the other arrows "check their vanes at the rind" (check your guns at the door? Meh, I'm not a comedian). Not a real world example, unless you set up your target at a farm.

Well, something else to consider, lots of good choices here.

-James


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

jmvargas said:


> i have seen very few,in fact i can't recall any offhand, elite archers who are NOT using spinwings for outdoor fita.....ALL the koreans use them and we all know how good they are!!......if only for that reason i use them too....although i am not even close to being an elite archer...........


Limbwalker (1270+ shooter) uses vanes, Erika Anear (sp?) from Australia also uses vanes, or at least used to. Both were or are high level competitors. You're right though, not a large pool that I'm aware of.


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## Toivola (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks for all the input. I've got a few options in appears, I'll definitely be looking in to getting some new veins.


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## Old Hoyt (Jul 28, 2005)

*Low Profile Vanes*

Current World Champion (Compound)- Dietmar Trillus uses & endorses vanes (Flex Fletch, IIRC). Also, Doris Jones, Current World Junior Champion uses vanes.

I tried the original Spin-Wings (2 vanes/arrow, "L" shaped, hard Mylar) way back in the 70's. They certainly spun the arrow, but broke like crazy. At that time flexible rubber (Flex Fletch & others) vanes were in their infancy, with adhesion problems, alot of thought about them "laying down" or deforming in flight, and they "rippled" easily. Hard Plasti-Fletch had been around for a while, but they broke easily and were very hard to tune.

Then AAE came out with Flexible Plasti-Fletch - stiff, but flexble & almost indestructable. The base of the vane had to be prepped with acetone or MEK for good adhesion. I used to cut them down 3" to a 2" low profile shield shape. I still have a few old aluminums kicking around with them in shootable condition. 

Now AAE has the Plasti Max 2" shield, which I'm puting on X-10's; just debating whether or not to use wraps, maybe that would may a good topic for a new thread???

IMHO, a 2" low profile shape is desirable over a 1.6" or so "Mini" shape, like a Blazer: Equal or slightly more surface area, but less side wind resistance, easier to tune (better clearance), less height for side contact in the butt, and withstands pass-thru's better.


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## wisemaj (Feb 27, 2007)

Toivola,

Question about what you mean by "losing fletchings". Do you mean they are getting damaged or are they actually coming off the shaft? If they are coming off, you may have an installation problem. I have rarely had a spin wing come off the shaft. They will get damaged, crumpled, even torn before they'll come off, even shooting thru the clicker.

I really much prefer the installation of spin-wings with double-sided tape versus glue-on vanes. I first use an extra fine permanent marker to mark a ring around the shaft at the point where the back of the spin-wing will rest, and then, using my Bitzenburger, mark 3 lines forward from that ring at a slight angle to the right. Once marked, you don't have to do it again as the lines last a long time, through several re-fletchings. I keep a small pill bottle with several spin-wing vanes and pre-cut double-sided tape and thin band tape for sealing the ends with me and can re-fletch an arrow in less than 10 minutes when needed.

Some points I've learned that help make sure the spin-wings stay on:
1. Wipe the shaft with a dry paper towel. This doesn't affect the permanent marker lines.
2. Wash your hands before starting to remove skin oils that can affect the bond of the tape. Even then, try to avoid touching the sticky surface of the tapes or the bonding area of the fletching as much as possible.
3. After installing the vanes and pressing them firmly against the shaft, wrap the thin band tape tightly around both the front end and the back end of the fletchings, again minimizing finger contact with the sticky surface.
4. Press the edge of your thumb nail against the tape while spinning the arrow to help seal it. I've never had the band tape come undone, as I've heard others say they have.

Hope that helps if you decide to stick (pun intended) with the spin-wings.


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## Speedyts49 (May 11, 2006)

AAE sells a clamp but it is at 1 degree I believe. What brand helical clamp would be used to do this.




engtee said:


> I use the Plastifletch Max 2" shield cut on my 610 Navs with about 44# on my fingers. I got tired of repairing Spinwings from 90m misses, passthrus, and collisions. Dick Tone, coach and owner of AAE/Cav., suggested the Plastifletch Max, but was very specific about how to orient them. He told me to put them on straight, with no offset, but with a helical clamp. He said that would give me greater downrange speed, as compared to the SpinWings. All I can say is that I notice no difference in grouping, but the arrows do not appear to parachute at 90m, even into the wind, and that after misses and passthrus, the originals are still on there. I like them and cannot see myself ever going back to the SpinWings.


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

I used a Bitz, with helical clamp to install mine. I also use that combination when I apply feathers to wood or aluminum.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

I am currently shooting 47# on fingers, navigator 610's. I have 8 arrows fletched with FF187 vanes (of which I have NEVER had a problem fletching) and 4 with spinwings. I'm going to chart them all summer in varying conditions.

So far, no matter the conditions, I haven't noticed a difference at all. Maybe that just means I'm not good enough to notice.

-Andrew


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## gaarcher31 (Apr 15, 2006)

I have used everthing in my 27yrs of shooting for outdoor use bohning micro blazers thay are 1" for indoor I use mini blazers thay are 1 1/2" this is what i use ..


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> are they worth the pain of fixing them ever other week?


I didn't think so. I shot spin wings for about 6 months in competiton, them switched over to flex-fletch 2" vanes. My highest 36 arrow score at 70 meters was shot with vanes, and that score eventually helped secure my spot in Athens. So I believe vanes can work well on recurve arrows.

Weight is really one of the biggest issues. If you are launching 400 grain logs downrange with 50# like I was, the difference between spin wings and plastic vanes is not really significant. But if you are struggling to get 90 meters on your sight (as most do), then it makes more sense to shoot spin wings.

Another advantage of spin wings is that they can be replaced on the spot, even in the middle of a tournament, with little effort. And they are reasonably cheap.

I encourage all archers with average to short draw lengths and draw weights under 40-42# to use spin wings. 

Right now, my favorite vane is the AAE plastifletch Max. Love those vanes.

John.


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## G33k (Jul 16, 2003)

I have been thinking about this alot cause I am setting up 11 new archers in the next 10 days and I really don't like the idea of doing 11 dozen spin wings (haha).

It is true that (almost?) all elite top-level recurve archers use spinwings BUT they also use X10 (or equivalent quality arrow for another reputable company). I would not tell every beginner to amateur archer that they have to have X10. 

On another point, if an archer is still missing then spin wings are lousy cause they get beat up pretty easy. example, at Arizona Cup, if you miss with spinwings then your arrow is dead. 

Not sure if that arguement is applicable to many but something to consider for those that are still in the steep learning curve of their archery career.


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## Canjapan2003 (Jun 3, 2006)

G33k said:


> I have been thinking about this alot cause I am setting up 11 new archers in the next 10 days and I really don't like the idea of doing 11 dozen spin wings (haha).
> .


If you do do those 11 dozen, this might help you out. It's a magnetic white board memo clip. Holds the Kurlys while you put the double sided tape on them but it doesn't flatten them out. Then it works as a handle to hold the pre taped vane while you apply it. I pre tape a dozen kurlys and keep them in my tackle box with the clip.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

G33k said:


> On another point, if an archer is still missing then spin wings are lousy cause they get beat up pretty easy. example, at Arizona Cup, if you miss with spinwings then your arrow is dead.
> 
> Not sure if that arguement is applicable to many but something to consider for those that are still in the steep learning curve of their archery career.


Agreed. When I picked this back up a few years ago, I was missing a lot at 90. I was refletching at least 2 arrows per week. I finally stopped and and just straightened them out. Then when I started to keep all arrows on target, the "wrinkle-vanes" definitely steered my arrows funny. 

About that time I began switching over to vanes. Even with passthroughs, the vanes survive nicely where spinwings would be crinkled beyond repair or torn off.


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

I can't believe nobody has suggested this yet... if you have a week or two and 12 arrows... fletch them both up. You need to see what works for YOU.

6 arrows with spinnies, 6 with vanes. Then shoot. Which groups better with your form at the various distances? Which is more forgiving? Wind? Just start plotting in a little notebook. 

After a couple of weeks, you will have made a decision based on your own experience and you will have enourmous faith in what you're shooting (which is absolutely invaluable).


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## G33k (Jul 16, 2003)

sundevilarchery said:


> I can't believe nobody has suggested this yet... if you have a week or two and 12 arrows... fletch them both up. You need to see what works for YOU.
> 
> 6 arrows with spinnies, 6 with vanes. Then shoot. Which groups better with your form at the various distances? Which is more forgiving? Wind? Just start plotting in a little notebook.
> 
> After a couple of weeks, you will have made a decision based on your own experience and you will have enourmous faith in what you're shooting (which is absolutely invaluable).


Haha, so obvious that we missed it. This is an excellent point. Archers should be encouraged to experiment more. I will even pull out some Research and say that the more YOU are involved in figuring out what you need , the better you learn a motor skill (ie shooting). Try out two options, see what works better for you right now.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

sundevilarchery said:


> I can't believe nobody has suggested this yet... if you have a week or two and 12 arrows... fletch them both up. You need to see what works for YOU.
> 
> 6 arrows with spinnies, 6 with vanes. Then shoot. Which groups better with your form at the various distances? Which is more forgiving? Wind? Just start plotting in a little notebook.
> 
> After a couple of weeks, you will have made a decision based on your own experience and you will have enourmous faith in what you're shooting (which is absolutely invaluable).


I'll be the contrarian here and suggest that this might not get the results you hope for. Spin wings are the lightest, as far as I know, fletching available which is why they are so good, ie., maximum possible FOC. However, when compared to vanes which are heavier, they affect the arrow differently. To get the best results from each I would think you would have to re-tune every time you switched from one to the other. Otherwise its apples and oranges.


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

Wouldn't be too hard to grab an extra plunger for testing purposes (I've been meaning to pick one up...) but you bring up a very good point.


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