# Congratulation



## Harperman

Killingfoam said:


> Congrats to the pro that won in HC good job


.........O.K........Good first post!!!!


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## indiana35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRpTM1q7Imw
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105677&page=1


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## NCSUarcher

Wow. Can't believe what I saw! :thumbs_do


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

Well not defending his actions for shooting in HC, but he has not shot any ASA shoots this year. Nor did he shoot a pro class in asa last year. I do not know what he shot in ibo last year. But my opinion is file a formal protest if you think it is that wrong.


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## maineyotekiller

Wow! Impressive indeed! :bartstush:


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## recurvist22

I must have missed something?


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## Quackersmacker1

me to.


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## hophunt

Maybe there was some kind of health issue over the winter that caused him to start from scratch with his shooting. Atleast I would hope that it would be something like that.


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## cenochs

I think he won ASA shooter of the year in K50 last year and that is not considered a hunter class.


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## Bubba Dean

As long as IBO rules are written the way they are for Hunter Class he and others are totally legal. Since he shoots K50 in ASA and IBO has no corresponding class he is free to shoot whatever he choses.


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## JLARCHERY

Why would any one who shoots at the pro level want to shoot the hunter class, never have understood that


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## bwhntr4168

Wow i bet the other pro's are proud of him!!!!!


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## golfnut721

LOSER. this is why the ibo is a far less superior organization then the ASA. Some new hunter has to shoot against this jack ass and we wonder why the sport doesn't grow. Maybe next year he can shoot in the youth class.


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## Daniel Boone

IBO makes the rules. He didnt break any rules in IBO! 

Get over it or get the rules changed. 
DB


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## Daniel Boone

golfnut721 said:


> LOSER. this is why the ibo is a far less superior organization then the ASA. Some new hunter has to shoot against this jack ass and we wonder why the sport doesn't grow. Maybe next year he can shoot in the youth class.


ASA rules allow pros to move back to Semi Pro. No one broke any rules!
DB


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## goofy2788

Daniel Boone said:


> IBO makes the rules. He didnt break any rules in IBO!
> 
> Get over it or get the rules changed.
> DB


Has nothing to do with rules and more to do with personal ethics.

Once again another sandbagger has won the IBO hunter class...boy he must be proud.


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## Daniel Boone

goofy2788 said:


> Has nothing to do with rules and more to do with personal ethics.
> 
> Once again another sandbagger has won the IBO hunter class...boy he must be proud.


Your ethics only. Apparently not the committee of IBO Ethics. Each tournament makes the rules and everyone plays by them. 
DB


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## goofy2788

Well Mr. Boone apparently it isn't only MY ethics but the majority of those in the archery community...sadly it's guys just like you that feel it's ok to step down to an entry level class just to win a trophy. As long as "archers" (I'll use that term loosely right now) continue to think it's ok to come from a pro class and shoot in anything lower then the Advanced Hunter Class myself and I'm sure plenty others will continue to complain and express our ethics here on AT. Personally I thank God I was raised to have the ethics I do instead of yours.


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## wpk

no he didn't break any rules, but come on! Dropping from pro to semi pro is different than dropping from pro to a an amateur hunter class. It's not the IBO's rules I question it's the pro's morals and ethics.


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## Daniel Boone

goofy2788 said:


> Well Mr. Boone apparently it isn't only MY ethics but the majority of those in the archery community...sadly it's guys just like you that feel it's ok to step down to an entry level class just to win a trophy. As long as "archers" (I'll use that term loosely right now) continue to think it's ok to come from a pro class and shoot in anything lower then the Advanced Hunter Class myself and I'm sure plenty others will continue to complain and express our ethics here on AT. Personally I thank God I was raised to have the ethics I do instead of yours.


Im glad you were raised that rules should not be followed. Want to play by your rules/ethics set forth. 
Ill stick with playing by the rules of the tournament. If I dont like the rules I wont play. Seems pretty simple to me. 
DB


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## wpk

Hey DB, would you feel that way if Levi Morgan did that. Which by the way he wouldn't cause he is an honest upstanding guy!


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## Daniel Boone

wpk said:


> Hey DB, would you feel that way if Levi Morgan did that. Which by the way he wouldn't cause he is an honest upstanding guy!


Did what follow the rules? I dont get it why your not mad at IBO? There rules and there game.
Get them changed if you dont like them. We all got to play by the rules. 
DB


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## shootist

According to the results that I looked up. Tony Ooten hasn't shot in a pro class since 2008. Is there something that says once a pro always a pro? I think I'm with DB on this one. The guy didn't break any rules. If you don't like the rules either quit shooting that organization or try to get the rules changed.


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## goofy2788

Daniel Boone said:


> Im glad you were raised that *rules should not be followed*. Want to play by your rules/ethics set forth.
> Ill stick with playing by the rules of the tournament. If I dont like the rules I wont play. Seems pretty simple to me.
> DB


Umm....what??? Where did I say that rules shouldn't be followed or that I was raised to not follow the rules???? Yes no rule was broken, that's not what's being contested but the moral's and ethics of the specific archery. Sure if the guy had walked out on the course with a range finder and shot then yes a rule would've been broken and we would've been debating that. However what we're discussing is why someone who has shot a pro/semi-pro class would step down to a beginner level class. As I stated I wouldn't open my mouth about this had he dropped down and shot in AHC. (which just so happens to be the class I shoot in) Advanced hunter class according to the IBO rule book is the 1st level Amateur class. So if this "archer" who won HC wanted to get out of the pressure of competeing in the pro's why drop down to a beginner class instead of the lowest level amateur class.....Well in my opinion it's because he took the easy way out to win a National event.


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## goofy2788

Daniel Boone said:


> Did what follow the rules? I dont get it why your not mad at IBO? There rules and there game.
> Get them changed if you dont like them. We all got to play by the rules.
> DB


Oh and Thankfully the rules have been changed to deal with guys like this. Thankfully now that he's won a national event and if he continues to sandbag in the hunter class come next year he'll no longer be able to compete in a beginners class again. So let me be the first to congratulate a PAST pro on winning a Beginners class. Once again, You must be so proud.


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## Daniel Boone

goofy2788 said:


> Umm....what??? Where did I say that rules shouldn't be followed or that I was raised to not follow the rules???? Yes no rule was broken, that's not what's being contested but the moral's and ethics of the specific archery. Sure if the guy had walked out on the course with a range finder and shot then yes a rule would've been broken and we would've been debating that. However what we're discussing is why someone who has shot a pro/semi-pro class would step down to a beginner level class. As I stated I wouldn't open my mouth about this had he dropped down and shot in AHC. (which just so happens to be the class I shoot in) Advanced hunter class according to the IBO rule book is the 1st level Amateur class. So if this "archer" who won HC wanted to get out of the pressure of competeing in the pro's why drop down to a beginner class instead of the lowest level amateur class.....Well in my opinion it's because he took the easy way out to win a National event.


His call to make. I shot pro, should I never step back and shoot a amatuer class ever. No one complighns until you win. Everyone knew the rules and now it a promblem.
DB


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## Daniel Boone

goofy2788 said:


> Oh and Thankfully the rules have been changed to deal with guys like this. Thankfully now that he's won a national event and if he continues to sandbag in the hunter class come next year he'll no longer be able to compete in a beginners class again. So let me be the first to congratulate a PAST pro on winning a Beginners class. Once again, You must be so proud.


Hunters class class guys must really enjoy you calling them begginners. 
DB


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## goofy2788

Daniel Boone said:


> His call to make. I shot pro, should I never step back and shoot a amatuer class ever. No one complighns until you win. Everyone knew the rules and now it a promblem.
> DB


Reread my posts....According to the IBO rules Advanced Hunter Class is the first level of amatuer classes. With that statement hunter class is and always has been considered an entry/beginner level class.....are there guys in there who shoot at better then a beginner level....Yes there are, should they be in there? In my opinion no they shouldn't they should be in the same class I shoot in....if they win my class I'll be the first to shake their hands and say congratulations...I'd do the same with the guy who won HC at Bedford. I've felt this way since I started shooting competively (my very 1st year in MBO then stepping down to AHC when I realized I coudn't judge yardage yet) and I'll continue to feel this way until I either can't shoot anymore or lose my love for the sport. What I don't want to see happen is guys who think like you come back down to a beginner level class and blow actual beginners away and push them away from the sport for good.

What we need in this sport is more GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP and Ambassador's that are going to help grow this sport instead of guys looking to boost their own egos.


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## goofy2788

Daniel Boone said:


> Hunters class class guys must really enjoy you calling them begginners.
> DB


This is straight from the IBO rule book



> C. Level Three—*Entry Level Adult Classes*—Trophy Awards-Monetary Awards (If Offered) At Random
> 1. Hunter Class (HC)
> A compound, recurve, or longbow shot with or without sights. A sight shall have fixed pins, cross hair, or circle style pins without lens or magnification. If circle style pins are used, all circles must be the same size. A sight may have a rear aperture (i.e., peep sight or fixed rifle type sight). Note rule change (III.C.6) concerning peep sights. Sights may not be adjusted after entering the shooting course. Arrows must have screw-in points and at least three (3) feathers or vanes no less than two (2) inches long (measured minimum 1.75 inches). Only one stabilizer may be used. The stabilizer shall be no more than 12 inches long, and extend no more than 12 inches from the point of attachment to the riser of the bow. Additional Vbars, counter balances, or weighted attachments are prohibited. (For the purposes of this rule, any device adding length or weight to the stabilizer shall be considered part of the stabilizer and shall be subject to the 12-inch rule.) Un-weighted vibration dampeners are not considered to be stabilizers; however, un-weighted vibration dampeners attached to the stabilizer are measured as a part of the stabilizer and are subject to the 12-inch rule above. Equipment in this class may be shot with finger tab, shooting glove or release. HC archers



As it's clearly stated hunter class in an ENTRY LEVEL class. So is Mr. Ooten now an Entry Level archer?


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## carlosii

Seems to me that maybe IBO should have done something prior to allowing some of these pros and semi-pros to shoot in these entry level classes.


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## greatprohunter

Well said Goofy2788!! Well said. I started in the IBO in AHC because when I step up to a HC stake it just seems to easy to judge the yardage. This is my first year Shooting IBO. I have learned alot in a short time. I do not regret stepping up to a higher level ....... A Pro shooter that enters a level such as HC, Well they are only padding there ego.


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## goofy2788

carlosii said:


> Seems to me that maybe IBO should have done something prior to allowing some of these pros and semi-pros to shoot in these entry level classes.


I agree....sadly it seems the IBO leaves it up to the archer to shoot in the correct class.


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## cenochs

I want to hear field14's opinion! I don't agree with the rules or the IBO allowing this to happen. Unlike golf archery is far from a honest gentlemens game with respect and honor. I hope this type of behavior is used for positive change for
Competitve archery. I stopped attending IBO events for many reasons that are not correct. If I ever shoot a IBO event ever again I will shoot semi pro and just take my butt kicking becuase if your not shooting semi or pro your really just shooting a big back yard shoot.


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## Doc

He didn't break any rules, but I understand where both sides are coming from....for Goofy's record I shot HC my first year and then stepped up a class or 2:archery:

The problem lies with the IBO and the definition of Hunter Class. For years many have wanted (and still want) the IBO Hunter Class to be an entry level competition class for novice/beginner shooters. It has never taken this transition. The other side of the coin is, competitive shooters want to shoot hunting rigs. As the rules are written, somebody could win Shooter of the Year and the Hunter Class World championship in 2009, but still participate this year in the Hunter Class The ASA ranking has no impact on IBO. 
Per the IBO rule book:
If *an archer wins more than once in HC at a qualifying event for Shooter of the Year, or wins either the National Championship or World Championship during any one IBO shooting year, that archer must advance to another class for the entire duration of the following IBO shooting year.*


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## Bowtech n ROSS

Who cares more power to him if he wants to win a 10$ plaque. In my opinion the top 25-30 in hc don't belong there. Its not like ooten killed the other guys he just beat them.


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## cenochs

IBO has a facebook page, a good place to express opinions!


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## goofy2788

Doc said:


> He didn't break any rules, but I understand where both sides are coming from....for Goofy's record I shot HC my first year and then stepped up a class or 2:archery:
> 
> The problem lies with the IBO and the definition of Hunter Class. For years many have wanted (and still want) the IBO Hunter Class to be an entry level competition class for novice/beginner shooters. It has never taken this transition. The other side of the coin is, *competitive shooters want to shoot hunting rigs*. As the rules are written, somebody could win Shooter of the Year and the Hunter Class World championship in 2009, but still participate this year in the Hunter Class The ASA ranking has no impact on IBO.
> Per the IBO rule book:
> If *an archer wins more than once in HC at a qualifying event for Shooter of the Year, or wins either the National Championship or World Championship during any one IBO shooting year, that archer must advance to another class for the entire duration of the following IBO shooting year.*


Hey Who asked you to chime in :tongue:


I did highlight one portion of your post I'd like to comment on. AHC uses the same equipment as HC so if a guy wants to step down and shoot his hunting set-up he should step down to AHC. If someone whines about that then I'll be the first to defend the archer.

Since we're all individuals we all have our own opinions and our own beliefs. One thing I will agree with DB on petaining to this subject that for those of us upset about this or believe that what happened is wrong then it is us who must do something about it. We can sit here and whine all day but until we step-up and express our views toward the IBO (or ASA if you have any issue with them) nothing will ever change.


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## Daniel Boone

goofy2788 said:


> This is straight from the IBO rule book
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As it's clearly stated hunter class in an ENTRY LEVEL class. So is Mr. Ooten now an Entry Level archer?



Honestly I dont shoot IBO for these reasons. I dont understand there rules. So instead of shooting it I just dont. 
DB


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## Doc

goofy2788 said:


> Hey Who asked you to chime in :tongue:
> 
> 
> I did highlight one portion of your post I'd like to comment on. AHC uses the same equipment as HC so if a guy wants to step down and shoot his hunting set-up he should step down to AHC. If someone whines about that then I'll be the first to defend the archer.
> 
> Since we're all individuals we all have our own opinions and our own beliefs. One thing I will agree with DB on petaining to this subject that for those of us upset about this or believe that what happened is wrong then it is us who must do something about it. We can sit here and whine all day but until we step-up and express our views toward the IBO (or ASA if you have any issue with them) nothing will ever change.


Fact is if a guy wants to shoot a hunting rig, he can do it in any male IBO Class (MBR, MBO, Semi/Pro). MBR is a great place for a hunting rig.


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## Ohio_3Der

I've seen tony shoot a lot over the years, and I still can't believe that he only shot a 421 in hc!! He must have came off of a long break or something.


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## cenochs

These guys don't shoot hunting setups! Maybe the rules need to be changed and re-define hunting setups! The only classes the IBO needs are:

Hunter
Professional Hunter
Open
Semi
Pro


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## Doc

cenochs said:


> These guys don't shoot hunting setups! Maybe the rules need to be changed and re-define hunting setups! The only classes the IBO needs are:
> 
> Hunter
> Professional Hunter
> Open
> Semi
> Pro


You need to add a Novice or Beginner Class and designate it as such if the problem is to be resolved.

Novice Hunter
Advanced Hunter
MBR
Open
Semi
Pro

This would work IMO.


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## tagmaster10

I took a break from tourn. archery for several years and started back this year. One thing I have noticed is that the hunter class is anything but a beginner class. It is the most competitive class with the most entries at every shoot that i have been at so far. I would guess that alot of pro shooters while being competitive, would not just walk over the top hunter class shooters. different set up. I don't care if some pro shooter comes into my class, just gives me more glory to go after.


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## bwhntr4168

You need to add a Novice or Beginner Class and designate it as such if the problem is to be resolved.

Novice Hunter
Advanced Hunter
MBR
Open
Semi
Pro
HAS BEENS
This would work IMO. 
YOU FORGOT ONE!!


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## stubborn

JLARCHERY said:


> Why would any one who shoots at the pro level want to shoot the hunter class, never have understood that


They have to win somehow.....


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## SonnyThomas

This Novice hunter class, be it any of the organizations. Just how many real bow novices are there that shoot on the national circuit? I'd say none. How long is a rookie anything a rookie? From all the BS over Novices I think one full year and that's it - move them... Or do away with Novice classes.


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## cenochs

Doc said:


> You need to add a Novice or Beginner Class and designate it as such if the problem is to be resolved.
> 
> Novice Hunter
> Advanced Hunter
> MBR
> Open
> Semi
> Pro
> 
> This would work IMO.


I would not have a MBR just a professional hunter and a Novice Hunter. I would also like to see them incorporate at least 7gpp in the class for more releastic hunting arrows. I would put the novice guys at 35 yards and the Pro Hunters at 50. The IBO needs a computerized sign up system like the ASA and start times like the Semi and Pros shoot.


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## Ft. Jefferson

I've never liked the multi-layered nature of archery divisions just so more people can win a trophy. Kinda like too many entries in the playoffs of baseball. It's much better (in my mind) to have only one class by equipment and let the best shooter win. The shooters who come in 2nd or 10th or 23rd should just take pride in knowing they are in the top percentage compared to total number of shooters. (that make any sense?)

With all the skill grades it's too easy to sandbag and make a mockery of standings. Let shooters just see where they stand on a long list. Like a marathon race where you look down the long list of runners and see your friend finished 127th at the London Marathon. To those savvy about such thing, to finish 127th is pretty good in a field of thousands. 

I hate layered divisions.


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## hophunt

goofy2788 said:


> This is straight from the IBO rule book
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As it's clearly stated hunter class in an ENTRY LEVEL class. So is Mr. Ooten now an Entry Level archer?


Like DB, I do not shoot IBO, but mainly because I've never been near one to shoot it. For that reason I am not completley familiar with the IBO rules, but based on this section of the rulebook, I would say yes this person did blatantly break the rules of the organization. According to the class definition, it is an entry level class. Anyone with reasonable intelligence would recognize that his level of experience and past participation eliminate him from calling himself an entry level archer regardless of layoffs from the sport.


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## carlosii

SonnyThomas said:


> This Novice hunter class, be it any of the organizations. Just how many real bow novices are there that shoot on the national circuit? I'd say none. How long is a rookie anything a rookie? From all the BS over Novices I think one full year and that's it - move them... Or do away with Novice classes.


Sonny, as usual, has hit the nail on the toe. a novice is a first timer...i shot BN at the first couple ASA shoots and then went to SS. 40 up...what a joke.


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## Daniel Boone

SonnyThomas said:


> This Novice hunter class, be it any of the organizations. Just how many real bow novices are there that shoot on the national circuit? I'd say none. How long is a rookie anything a rookie? From all the BS over Novices I think one full year and that's it - move them... Or do away with Novice classes.


Right on Sonny. Always laugh at the 40year old in a sponsored shirt winning the novice class. There is no true novice class today. 20 to 30 up is not a novice shooter. 
DB


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## Ohbowhunter815

Mr. Ooten has shot pro at IBO events in the past. This should disqualify him from an entry level class. The IBO states "Any archer ranking in the top 10 combined scores for the National Championship, or the top 5 scores for the World Championship, including all ties must advance to another class at the conclusion of the current competition year. This will be a permanent move out of HC". So he could win Erie and not shoot Nelsonville and come back next year and do it again. Definately should be a rule change that if you have shot at a pro level you cant move all the way down to HC. As stated before the top 25-30 in HC should at least be moved to Advanced HC.


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## Daniel Boone

Is there money involved in winning this class? Members keep mentioning a trophy!

Bottomline IBO needs to change the rules. This should be addressed by the IBO committee to vote and see if the rules were violated.
DB


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## johnniecat

CAN'T WALK WITH BIG DOGS GOT TO PLAY WITH PUPPY. HE NEVER SHOOT LOWER THAN MBR IN THE IBO BEFORE. :noidea:


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## wpk

The IBO won't do the right thing they never do as long as we keep putting money in there pockets they just don't care


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## Bowtech n ROSS

No db no money.


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## Daniel Boone

Bowtech n ROSS said:


> No db no money.


WOW! Hard to understand for sure!
DB


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## Gary Wiant

I am new to Tourn. Archery, and I shoot ok (371 at Bedford) and usually around 300 give or take at local shoots. this was my 1st National shoot, I shot Trophy Hunter at the Worlds last year and finsihed 15th. I hate seeing sponsored shooters in the HC. and if all sponsored shooters would leave Hunter Class I still wouldn't be winning it but I probably will eventually be good enough to finish in the top 20 scores or at least give me something to strive for. 
I'm going to try to step up to AHC or MBR for next year but at 43 yrs old and Diabetic my eyesight isn't what it used to be, so I'm not sure I can see well enough to shoot MBR or MBO but these are the classes I would like to be in if I can see and once I learn yardage better. My yardage is more of an issue then sight.

Now here is something to think about. I used to race alot of R/C Off Road competitively and I am still sponsored by a major R/C Company and in our contract it states that you are not allowed to race Stock ( Entry Level class ) and I remember seeing when you sign up for large state and national events on the registration form that if you are sponsored you must run at least intermediate class.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

Gary Wiant said:


> I am new to Tourn. Archery, and I shoot ok (371 at Bedford) and usually around 300 give or take at local shoots. this was my 1st National shoot, I shot Trophy Hunter at the Worlds last year and finsihed 15th. I hate seeing sponsored shooters in the HC. and if all sponsored shooters would leave Hunter Class I still wouldn't be winning it but I probably will eventually be good enough to finish in the top 20 scores or at least give me something to strive for.
> I'm going to try to step up to AHC or MBR for next year but at 43 yrs old and Diabetic my eyesight isn't what it used to be, so I'm not sure I can see well enough to shoot MBR or MBO but these are the classes I would like to be in if I can see and once I learn yardage better. My yardage is more of an issue then sight.
> 
> Now here is something to think about. I used to race alot of R/C Off Road competitively and I am still sponsored by a major R/C Company and in our contract it states that you are not allowed to race Stock ( Entry Level class ) and I remember seeing when you sign up for large state and national events on the registration form that if you are sponsored you must run at least intermediate class.


Well first off I would bet that 9 out of 10 of these so called sponsored shooters are really not sponsored. To win contingency money from companies, some require you to wear a shirt or logo on a shirt to collect the money. If you know for sure and have proof they are a sponsored shooter and there is a rule against it in the class you shoot in protest it. I grew up fishing bass tournaments, we wore shirts that showed the product(s) we used. Never sponsored, just representing something we believed in. I'm the same way in archery, I wear a "shooter shirt" but do not receive any money unless I win and get contingency.


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## rock monkey

lets throw some gas on this fire.

i see some contradiction between this thread and another. i think it has more to do with the feelings about hosting org than anything else.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=70358


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## treeman65

Daniel Boone said:


> Im glad you were raised that rules should not be followed. Want to play by your rules/ethics set forth.
> Ill stick with playing by the rules of the tournament. If I dont like the rules I wont play. Seems pretty simple to me.
> DB


get over yourself already


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## treeman65

yeah and that rule is a joke.guess some people need to grow a set.


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## J Whittington

Its hunter class is also an *equipment class* your equipment determines what class you *can* and* can't *compete in. Like it or not, agree with it or not, He did not break any rules that I am aware of.
Everybody in that class had the same opportuninity to score the same amount and the opportunity to score more. Had the same opportunity to shoot the best equipment allowed by the rules. 

If he was shooting in the physically challenged class, then you might have a legal argument.

everyones ethics, beliefs, morals are different....Its America, we are blessed to have the freedom to choose.


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## Ft. Jefferson

J Whittington said:


> Its hunter class is also an *equipment class* your equipment determines what class you *can* and* can't *compete in. Like it or not, agree with it or not, He did not break any rules that I am aware of.
> Everybody in that class had the same opportuninity to score the same amount and the opportunity to score more. Had the same opportunity to shoot the best equipment allowed by the rules.
> 
> If he was shooting in the physically challenged class, then you might have a legal argument.
> 
> everyones ethics, beliefs, morals are different....Its America, we are blessed to have the freedom to choose.


I'm with this guy. Shooter in question won fair and square. Others need to lose and not excuse.


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## Daniel Boone

treeman65 said:


> get over yourself already


You must have all the right opionions. Make your own rules if you dont like it!
DB


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## J Whittington

Ft. Jefferson said:


> I'm with this guy. Shooter in question won fair and square. Others need to lose and not excuse.


based on the written rules he did.... Now what people think and feel is a different story....ex. some folks think ur going to Hell for drinking a beer, and some will say its not a sin if done in moderation, and some will say pour, pour, pour, and pour some more!

some folks think its okay (and some states its legal) for Homos/****** to adopt children and some of us think (illegal in some states) its a terrible thing....The deffinition of Moral and ethics is so ambigious...that there really is not true defffinition to it....which is sad..of couse thats my opinion,,which doesnt make it LAW


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## golfnut721

Its not about winning or loosing. Its about the future of the sport. Think about a kid who shot his best this weekend and shot a 398,in an entry level class. Thats pretty good for a beginner, then he looks at the results and sees that he has been beat by a archer that used to shoot as a PRO that shot 26 11s. How do you think that makes that kid feel. I dont even shoot in the hunter class. I think the IBO Rules are a joke. This guy did nothing for the sport he just stroked his ego. WOW you won an Entry Level class for nothing. It doesn't matter that the rules will allow it, its the fact that he did it. Its a moral and ethics thing. O well what can you do. every new beginner should just sign up to shoot the PRO class, that way they know they are competing against PROs


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## treeman65

you are exactly right.


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## treeman65

Daniel Boone said:


> You must have all the right opionions. Make your own rules if you dont like it!
> DB


you seem to think you do. for years now you have thought you were the only one right on here.


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## alfabuck

I usually dont get caught up in all the contraversy on here but imo what he did isnt necessarily the right thing.I think HC is an entry level class for people just getting into the sport but that is my opinion. But as long as its legal this will still keep happening. To each his own though , if it makes him happy so be it. Different strokes for different folks , thats what makes the world go round.


----------



## Daniel Boone

treeman65 said:


> you seem to think you do. for years now you have thought you were the only one right on here.


Wow your pretty high on yourself arent you? Use the ignore feature. When did they make you a mod here of sherriff of AT?
DB


----------



## mocheese

Wow, you guys that say he didn't break any rules must not understand the words ENTRY LEVEL. This guy is obviously not a beginner or entry level shooter. I personally believe he broke a rule when he signed up. However, there were 39 shooters who shot even or up in the Hunter Class. Is an entry level shooter going to shoot even or up on a 40 target course? I doubt it.


----------



## mocheese

I don't shoot HC so it doesn't really matter a whole lot to me, just expressing my opinion. If a guy wants to shoot pins, no reason not to shoot AHC or MBR, thats what I do and love that class.


----------



## Daniel Boone

treeman65 said:


> you seem to think you do. for years now you have thought you were the only one right on here.


If your going to call someone out on the forum. Put your name in your profile. I did read your posts. Yeah you certianly post all the good opionions. Get real! 
DB


----------



## Daniel Boone

mocheese said:


> I don't shoot HC so it doesn't really matter a whole lot to me, just expressing my opinion. If a guy wants to shoot pins, no reason not to shoot AHC or MBR, thats what I do and love that class.


Your correct but IBO has to enforce the rules or other wise it will continue to go on.
DB


----------



## Doc

treeman65 said:


> get over yourself already


What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?


----------



## Ohbowhunter815

The IBO isnt going to change the rules for fear of losing any of the 234 entrants in the HC. Some guys may be fearful of stepping back 5 or 10 more yards and not enter. Interesting that about half the top 10 at Bedford have either shot MBO, Semi Pro, or have been shooting HC for several years. The other half would be what I would hope to see and thats guys that are shooting IBO first or second year. Last year was my first ever shooting 3D, long time hunter though, and have never shot indoors except this year at the IBO indoor. Dont think I can make any NTC events but next year plan on moving at least to AHC.


----------



## Supermag1

I love how any mention of IBO drags all the ASA shooters, who are unaffected by anything that happens with it, out of the woodwork to bash the organization. Reinforces my decision to shoot the IBO qualifier instead othe ASA qualifier when they come up against each other.


----------



## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

best part of this whole thing, the OP only has one post.....haha


----------



## DanielMatthews

everyone is getting mad at tony because he won, i noticed that not a single person said anything about the guy that came in eigth place though. he shooting in the known 50 in asa, but since he didn't win the class it excusable. i think they can shoot in whatever class that they legally can. u shoot in the class that you have the best chance to win, and can legally shoot in. open c was changed because of this very same argument, when an 18 year old kid from young adult was in his first open "entry level" class and everyone called him a sandbagger because he beat the breaks off of everyone in the class.


----------



## S4 300-60

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> best part of this whole thing, the OP only has one post.....haha


Likely the original poster has thousands of posts, just not "man" enough to show his identity. Hiding behind an alias or "alter ego".


----------



## Ohbowhunter815

DanielMatthews said:


> everyone is getting mad at tony because he won, i noticed that not a single person said anything about the guy that came in eigth place though. he shooting in the known 50 in asa, but since he didn't win the class it excusable. i think they can shoot in whatever class that they legally can. u shoot in the class that you have the best chance to win, and can legally shoot in. open c was changed because of this very same argument, when an 18 year old kid from young adult was in his first open "entry level" class and everyone called him a sandbagger because he beat the breaks off of everyone in the class.


 I mentioned just above your post that half the top 10 had shot open or semi-pro or hc for several years in IBO although I didnt look if any had shot in ASA. IMO the IBO should look at changing the rule. If you have shot in any other class you cant move down to the entry level novice class.


----------



## markb317

I shoot both IBO and ASA in the Hunter Class and I dont think it is fair for a guy to be able to drop more than one class from one organization to another. That being said what about the gut that is going to miss out on qualifing for the Worlds because of the guys dropping 4 or 5 classes?


----------



## Gary Wiant

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> Well first off I would bet that 9 out of 10 of these so called sponsored shooters are really not sponsored. To win contingency money from companies, some require you to wear a shirt or logo on a shirt to collect the money. If you know for sure and have proof they are a sponsored shooter and there is a rule against it in the class you shoot in protest it. I grew up fishing bass tournaments, we wore shirts that showed the product(s) we used. Never sponsored, just representing something we believed in. I'm the same way in archery, I wear a "shooter shirt" but do not receive any money unless I win and get contingency.


I don't consider someone a sponsored shooter if they receive contingency money or if an archery shop helps them out, what I am talking about are guys who receive product or discounts on product through a manufacturer ( Shooter bow, through a Pro Shop is an iffy subject because I know some guys who work at pro shops and their children get a shooters bow ) As far as having proof someone is sponsored I don't know. Like I said I'm new to the Tourney stuff so I know the guys from the local ranges but thats about it.

Later


----------



## rock monkey

the 3 commandments of of 3D/archery (depending on the conversation) that i've figured out from this forum and others.......

ASA is all things good about archery and has powers of papal infallibility
IBO is all things evil about 3D and run by a money hoarding demon.
NFAA is all things evil about everything else left in archery run by the 3 monkeys of see, hear and speak no evil.

learn it, know it, live it.


----------



## Rick hall

What a great topic! A friend and I were just talking about the samething. I shoot open (just had hernia surgery, so missed Bedford),and I see the scores posted for open class and see 24 up tied for 1st and 2nd, I think "Really"?? "wow, great shooting". Then I notice that one of shooters had shot Pro/semi-pro in the past. It kind of had me wondering why??? why would you drop down in class if you already achieved semi-pro/ pro status? Is there that much ego in our sport? I know that I will probably never have a chance, but it is nice to dream that maybe one day if I brought it all together I might", and when you have guys "sandbaging" it just seems like, why even bother? IMO. 24 up is great shooting no matter what on an open coarse, but it just seems like a disadvantage for the rest of the shooters. I know the shooter didn't break any rules, just seems unethical to me.


----------



## drtnshtr

Rick hall said:


> What a great topic! A friend and I were just talking about the samething. I shoot open (just had hernia surgery, so missed Bedford),and I see the scores posted for open class and see 24 up tied for 1st and 2nd, I think "Really"?? "wow, great shooting". Then I notice that one of shooters had shot Pro/semi-pro in the past. It kind of had me wondering why??? why would you drop down in class if you already achieved semi-pro/ pro status? Is there that much ego in our sport? I know that I will probably never have a chance, but it is nice to dream that maybe one day if I brought it all together I might", and when you have guys "sandbaging" it just seems like, why even bother? IMO. 24 up is great shooting no matter what on an open coarse, but it just seems like a disadvantage for the rest of the shooters. I know the shooter didn't break any rules, just seems unethical to me.


 I have shot semi pro in the past, done fairly well and now shooting MBO. I dont feel bad about it though since its been a few years (and a couple kids) later and dont shoot very much these days. I know the shooter very well that this post is referring to and Im not sure what exactly Tony's intent was in Bedford because I didnt get to see him there. I know he hasnt been shooting very much lately and I think he and an old friend that used to shoot with us (10-15 yrs ago) rode out togther and camped. My guess they wanted to shoot together since he hasnt shot in so long but I cant be positive. As good as Tony is Im surprised he didnt shoot way higher than 21 up. Im not saying I think its right. I would have thought Tony would have shot AHC before HC so thats why Im guessing he and our old friend planned to shoot together in HC just to have fun. If anyone knows Tony he certainly can be entertaining.


----------



## Ohio_3Der

rock monkey said:


> the 3 commandments of of 3D/archery (depending on the conversation) that i've figured out from this forum and others.......
> 
> ASA is all things good about archery and has powers of papal infallibility
> IBO is all things evil about 3D and run by a money hoarding demon.
> NFAA is all things evil about everything else left in archery run by the 3 monkeys of see, hear and speak no evil.
> 
> learn it, know it, live it.


I wish Archerytalk.com had a "Like" button so I could use it for this post. ha ha


----------



## Killingfoam

Nope S4 300-60 just like to see what people have to say about it because I am a big fan of people shooting what ever they like and there were no rules broken I just thought it was funny that a pro and open a winner shot HC and I know there are very few beginners in HC but dang


----------



## Killingfoam

And this makes 3


----------



## milkman38

good find db didnt like getting beat by pros either


rock monkey said:


> lets throw some gas on this fire.
> 
> i see some contradiction between this thread and another. i think it has more to do with the feelings about hosting org than anything else.
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=70358


----------



## perdieu2011

i shoot in the HC and this shoot at bedford was my first full calendar year shooting competion.....i was going to move out of the class but i had numerous people tell me to shoot hc another year! As for this tony ooten, i'm not to worried about it...all of us have to shoot the same equiptment! As for the rest of us........more practice!!


----------



## Daniel Boone

milkman38 said:


> good find db didnt like getting beat by pros either


Paid my entry fees and shot for two years against the pros. How about you? Maybe you should give a try and then talk smack. Take notice at my pictures, I shoot against them all the time here. Senior now and shoot amatuers. All by the rules! DB dont like getting beat anytime! Happens alot!

I dont think pros should shoot in the amatuers and never did. I said if you dont like the rules get them changed. Seems like the logical thing to do. If you dont like the rules dont shoot. I didnt in NFAA because I didnt want to shoot against open pro shooters. 
DB


----------



## milkman38

i just read your old post and u said if you knew u had to shoot agaisnt pros u wouldnt as a beginner. me i'm going to try like heck to win one of these babys this year, can't wait for london and eire!


----------



## Daniel Boone

milkman38 said:


> i just read your old post and u said if you knew u had to shoot agaisnt pros u wouldnt as a beginner. me i'm going to try like heck to win one of these babys this year, can't wait for london and eire!


I usually tell it honestly in all threads. I agree beginners shouldnt be shooting against the pros. But rules are what they are. 

Good luck and hope you do well.
DB


----------



## milkman38

finally figured out u can only worry about yourself on the archery range and if you start to think about others you will never shoot your best


----------



## 3Dblackncamo

dont know what to think about this and dont care either, IBO is not run like ASA, I dont shoot IBO, but i dont understand sandbaggers, as for some of the insults and bickering let it go, it is archers helping archers NOT archers arguing with archers-lets all get along and act like archers!


----------



## g5mike

you got that right!!!!! im going to print this right now and give you it at london and erie lol


milkman38 said:


> finally figured out u can only worry about yourself on the archery range and if you start to think about others you will never shoot your best


----------



## Rick hall

drtnshtr said:


> I have shot semi pro in the past, done fairly well and now shooting MBO. I dont feel bad about it though since its been a few years (and a couple kids) later and dont shoot very much these days. I know the shooter very well that this post is referring to and Im not sure what exactly Tony's intent was in Bedford because I didnt get to see him there. I know he hasnt been shooting very much lately and I think he and an old friend that used to shoot with us (10-15 yrs ago) rode out togther and camped. My guess they wanted to shoot together since he hasnt shot in so long but I cant be positive. As good as Tony is Im surprised he didnt shoot way higher than 21 up. Im not saying I think its right. I would have thought Tony would have shot AHC before HC so thats why Im guessing he and our old friend planned to shoot together in HC just to have fun. If anyone knows Tony he certainly can be entertaining.


Hey brother, I totally understand what your saying and I understand your situation. All I was saying was once a shooter gets to a certain level why would he/she want to drop to back down. I agree w/ some of the later post on this item, worry about number 1, that's all you can control. Worry about anything else and you'll never shoot well.


----------



## evo 6

I just became an ibo member last year and shot my first national event this past weekend (bedford).I ended up in the top five ,but i have to say i was alittle discouraged to here that the winner dropped down from pro.


----------



## evo 6

what kind of awards are given out at bedford for hc


----------



## Killingfoam

Plaques for top 10


----------



## outlawarcher

Don't hate the players....hate the rules of the game!


----------



## outlawarcher

Killingfoam said:


> Plaques for top 10


Congratulations on your 9th place plaque.


----------



## Killingfoam

Thanks and I don't hate the players at all


----------



## rock monkey

Ohio_3Der said:


> I wish Archerytalk.com had a "Like" button so I could use it for this post. ha ha


FB'd


----------



## outlawarcher

Killingfoam said:


> Thanks and I don't hate the players at all


Your welcome.....good shooting Killingfoam or shall I say WPK


----------



## Killingfoam

bowtech3d said:


> Your welcome.....good shooting Killingfoam or shall I say WPK


that be me


----------



## Shoot12

Ok boys if you want a Q&A lets do it. I"ve heard enough from friends about whats going on so lets talk. Killing foam Congrats on your 9th place and starting this. Please excuse me i haven't done this in years so what questions do you have?


----------



## evo 6

thanks


----------



## outlawarcher

whats up with two user names


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## Shoot12

Maybe i wasn't clear i have nothing to hide at all. This is Tony Ooten so, if you have questions please ask.


----------



## Garceau

Damn - I have no dog in this fight, and honestly dont have much of a stance on it either way as I dont have all the info.

But if Shoot12 is Tony Ooten, and stepped in here to settle things - I give that man some kudos


----------



## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

milkman38 said:


> finally figured out u can only worry about yourself on the archery range and if you start to think about others you will never shoot your best


:thumbs_up


----------



## bowman_77

Garceau said:


> Damn - I have no dog in this fight, and honestly dont have much of a stance on it either way as I dont have all the info.
> 
> But if Shoot12 is Tony Ooten, and stepped in here to settle things - I give that man some kudos


I do agree


----------



## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

:thumbs_up


bowtech3d said:


> Don't hate the players....hate the rules of the game!


----------



## evo 6

whats your reason for dropping down?


----------



## Shoot12

So, lets be clear. I was a Pro for 3 years, i hated it. not that the people were bad that class has great people in it. I never wanted to be a pro but i love to shoot. at the time i was able to put the time in to it and made a few goals. As some of you have posted i had a few wins, so what! I was in the pro class 4 years ago so what! i sucked! i didn't have fun and sorry FUN is why i shoot a bow. If you take the fun out of something what do you have. If you are having a problem with me shoot hc in the IBO so lets talk about it. If you don't want to talk to me about it then shut up and practice! i don't get to anymore i work very hard and lots of hours. In fact i shot hc due to the fact i haven't judged yardarge in years and i had a friend that wanted to shoot with me.


----------



## Killingfoam

Thanks Tony for talking


----------



## El Capitan

I myself cannot see what the issue was. He was shooting the same equipment under the same rules as everyone else. If he no longer shoots the Pro class, then what does it matter? 

If Kermit the Frog paid his pro dues in any org, he would be allowed to shoot pro. I don't think he has the skills to win the pro class, but I guess you never know. If he did get licked, he could within the rules move back down to a lesser class.

The only reason anyone is complaining is because the got beat. Mabye these guys don't have time to practice anymore because of growing families and other commitments. None the less, everyone should quit whining, man up and put some 11's on the board. Only way you will beat them.


----------



## 3rdplace

Dang Tony you done run them all off.:shade::shade:


----------



## Shoot12

So i'm here what would you like to know?


----------



## Killingfoam

bowtech3d said:


> whats up with two user names


That was stupid on my part


----------



## El Capitan

Killingfoam said:


> Nope S4 300-60 just like to see what people have to say about it because I am a big fan of people shooting what ever they like and there were no rules broken I just thought it was funny that a pro and open a winner shot HC and I know there are very few beginners in HC but dang


So S4 had it correct? You made an alter to stir the pot, then lied about it?


----------



## Killingfoam

I just did not under stand why someone with the ability shoot at that high of a level would want to go back to hc


----------



## Shoot12

I'm not saying that I just want to let everyone know that i had no ill intent at all. I simply wanted to get back to the basics and i did. I camped out with a dear old friend in the field just like i did back in the day. I think people are way to serious about this game. and truth to be spoken i may have picked the wrong class to satisfy everyone but i


----------



## Shoot12

well then ask and don't try to hide who you are, no one will respect that!


----------



## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

:thumbs_up


El Capitan said:


> I myself cannot see what the issue was. He was shooting the same equipment under the same rules as everyone else. If he no longer shoots the Pro class, then what does it matter?
> 
> If Kermit the Frog paid his pro dues in any org, he would be allowed to shoot pro. I don't think he has the skills to win the pro class, but I guess you never know. If he did get licked, he could within the rules move back down to a lesser class.
> 
> The only reason anyone is complaining is because the got beat. Mabye these guys don't have time to practice anymore because of growing families and other commitments. None the less, everyone should quit whining, man up and put some 11's on the board. Only way you will beat them.


----------



## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

3rdplace said:


> Dang Tony you done run them all off.:shade::shade:


Its funny how they can bash the man until he shows up. Good shooting on his part, even better on his part for clearing up his intentions.


----------



## Killingfoam

Shoot12 said:


> well then ask and don't try to hide who you are, no one will respect that!


I agree and for that I'm sorry


----------



## Killingfoam

Shoot 12 check your pm's please


----------



## Shoot12

I had no intentions to make anyone mad and to be frank i didn't run away with it. True back in the day i would have no dought but i"m older now and i don't practice at all. I have nothing else except i want to have fun again. i believe people are putting way to much into who has what sponsor and who is getting what free. i don't care about all that. again i just what to have fun with my friends. i broke no rules i checked before doing it infact i told everyone i was going to do it prior to doing it and noone had an issue with it.


----------



## Shoot12

Killing foam I'm sorry, this is going to sound stupid but i don't know how. sorry just say what you need to say here. it's been a very long time since i've been on this. sorry. Tony


----------



## El Capitan

Shoot12 said:


> I had no intentions to make anyone mad and to be frank i didn't run away with it. True back in the day i would have no dought but i"m older now and i don't practice at all. I have nothing else except i want to have fun again. i believe people are putting way to much into who has what sponsor and who is getting what free. i don't care about all that. again i just what to have fun with my friends. i broke no rules i checked before doing it infact i told everyone i was going to do it prior to doing it and noone had an issue with it.


Frankly sir, I have no respect for the tactic's you applied here. You looked like a feeble child and lied about your identity. You called Mr Ooten out, and like a MAN he came and answered your question. You should be ashamed......and learn some sportsmanship, so next time he tans your hide you don't have to run here and cry about it.


----------



## outlawarcher

just want to say congratulation tony but i hope that was not the best you could do because i am coming after you


----------



## Shoot12

Please Guys we don't need to get nasty. I will be very frank and i agree i don't like the fact that someone would try to hide and say something but lets get this over.


----------



## Killingfoam

Was not crying I have been getting my but kicked for years


----------



## evo 6

see you in erie


----------



## 3D Pinwheeler

Go to a National Level shoot you should expect to get National level competition. Play within the rules that are set & have fun. Very few are making a living doing this. It's just a fun hobby we do. Go enjoy. You will get out of it, what YOU put into it.


----------



## Shoot12

Bowtech3d i saw that you finally posted a score in the top 50 CONGRATS to you to. LOL good job


----------



## outlawarcher

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


3D Pinwheeler said:


> Go to a National Level shoot you should expect to get National level competition. Play within the rules that are set & have fun. Very few are making a living doing this. It's just a fun hobby we do. Go enjoy. You will get out of it, what YOU put into it.


----------



## Shoot12

Hey bowtech3d!!!! i was just called and told i have shot with you in the asa, and you won 2 ibo's this year in the south. Whats up with no one giving you grief!! Well goood shooting anyway. lol By the way I'll see you in london because i was only going to shoot bedford but d/t this drama i believe i will start going to the shoots again. i guess this has started a fire back that i lost years ago. so for that i say thanks. I'll get the O.K. from my family and see you all at the nationals. Good luck to ya and practice hard. 
Tony Ooten


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> I'm not saying that I just want to let everyone know that i had no ill intent at all. I simply wanted to get back to the basics and i did. I camped out with a dear old friend in the field just like i did back in the day. I think people are way to serious about this game. and truth to be spoken i may have picked the wrong class to satisfy everyone but i


 see I war right about something...you and dave wanted to shoot together. Did you guys get to? I noticed he did pretty good. I wish I could have seen him while we were out there.


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> Hey bowtech3d!!!! i was just called and told i have shot with you in the asa, and you won 2 ibo's this year in the south. Whats up with no one giving you grief!! Well goood shooting anyway. lol By the way I'll see you in london because i was only going to shoot bedford but d/t this drama i believe i will start going to the shoots again. i guess this has started a fire back that i lost years ago. so for that i say thanks. I'll get the O.K. from my family and see you all at the nationals. Good luck to ya and practice hard.
> Tony Ooten


how about open B like the old days? I shot it some last year and they still know how to have fun.


----------



## Shoot12

Hi drtnshtr, yes we camped in the field where you and i and dale did. he hasn't shot in 10 years and we did shoot together. iwe shot with a boy named Mark and another Jason from wis. and his 11 year old boy tagged along. and i can tell you d/t you know me. i had so much fun! Dave and i laughed and joked alday. I had no intentions on winning or making anyone mad. i just wanted to get back to basics. yea sorry i wanted you and your dad, dale and everyone back like o;d times camping and having fun like we did years ago.


----------



## outlawarcher

Shoot12 said:


> Hey bowtech3d!!!! i was just called and told i have shot with you in the asa, and you won 2 ibo's this year in the south. Whats up with no one giving you grief!! Well goood shooting anyway. lol By the way I'll see you in london because i was only going to shoot bedford but d/t this drama i believe i will start going to the shoots again. i guess this has started a fire back that i lost years ago. so for that i say thanks. I'll get the O.K. from my family and see you all at the nationals. Good luck to ya and practice hard.
> Tony Ooten


i'll be in london and ohio you better spend more then two days getting ready


----------



## Shoot12

I we had lots of fun back in the day right.


----------



## Shoot12

lol yea i may take three days


----------



## Shoot12

drtnshtr are you going to erie? dave and i are going if you want to go call me.


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> Hi drtnshtr, yes we camped in the field where you and i and dale did. he hasn't shot in 10 years and we did shoot together. iwe shot with a boy named Mark and another Jason from wis. and his 11 year old boy tagged along. and i can tell you d/t you know me. i had so much fun! Dave and i laughed and joked alday. I had no intentions on winning or making anyone mad. i just wanted to get back to basics. yea sorry i wanted you and your dad, dale and everyone back like o;d times camping and having fun like we did years ago.


 I had intentions on camping too but dads arthritis in his hip got so bad he couldnt make th trip at all let alone camp. I wasnt gonna go but the last minute was invited to go with scott poling and the hart boys. shot it all friday. sure would love to get nack to the old days. I been missing that! It must suck to not to intend on winning and then tear it up..hahaha. I have to admit I was wondering what you were up to when I saw you in HC butg then remembered Dave was with you so I figured. Good shooting!


----------



## 3Dblackncamo

Shoot12 said:


> lol yea i may take three days


shooting london shoot12, well give nathan a good whoopin!


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> drtnshtr are you going to erie? dave and i are going if you want to go call me.


I believe I am as of right now. I will let ya know for sure. You taking camper?


----------



## perdieu2011

well for not shooting for 3 yrs u shot pretty darn well man....good shooting!!! us hunter class guys are gonna have our hands full with u in there the way it sounds....lol!!


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> I we had lots of fun back in the day right.


You know it GIRL (3 snaps in Z formation)


----------



## Shoot12

Not sure but i may. there is a camper site near the shot. if you want to go your welcome.


----------



## Shoot12

you almost made me pee!!!!!! i forgot that one.


----------



## drtnshtr

back in the day dude we all rooted for one another not against each other. Was awesome times that I will never forget. I didnt start shooting good until we all had fun.


----------



## Shoot12

well lets just have fun! life is to short not to. RIP Chris Jackson


----------



## Shoot12

Thats a fact, when we all acted like 10 year olds we were unstoppable. something to think about.


----------



## goofy2788

Tony first let me say thank you for coming on here and facing everyone. It takes alot to do that. Now with that said as you can tell I'm very against anyone dropping back down and shooting hc. This has nothing to do with you personally but with the thinking that many archers have concerning the class. This is where we as archers should respect that HC is an ENTRY-LEVEL class. The IBO also needs to enforce that designation by making sure archers of your caliber and experience do not compete in that class. As I stated previously in this thread had you shot AHC and won I would've been the first to shake your hand. Sadly regardless of your reasons for shooting the class I still feel you should've known better and shot at the least AHC. I will extend this invitation right now to join me in Erie and shoot with me. I'm in no way a great shot but guarantee we would have fun.


----------



## drtnshtr

we need to get Dale to lighten up a bit so maybe we can spank him (literally) a few times while we are there. Dale can chime in anytime now I know he is watchin this thread....Oh Daaaallle


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> well lets just have fun! life is to short not to. RIP Chris Jackson


amen brother!


----------



## Shoot12

drtnshtr said:


> we need to get Dale to lighten up a bit so maybe we can spank him (literally) a few times while we are there. Dale can chime in anytime now I know he is watchin this thread....Oh Daaaallle


LOL where are you i agree he's watching


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> LOL where are you i agree he's watching


He's probably busy brushing his tooth...lol


----------



## drtnshtr

oh yeh what bow did Dave shoot?


----------



## Shoot12

goofy2788 said:


> Tony first let me say thank you for coming on here and facing everyone. It takes alot to do that. Now with that said as you can tell I'm very against anyone dropping back down and shooting hc. This has nothing to do with you personally but with the thinking that many archers have concerning the class. This is where we as archers should respect that HC is an ENTRY-LEVEL class. The IBO also needs to enforce that designation by making sure archers of your caliber and experience do not compete in that class. As I stated previously in this thread had you shot AHC and won I would've been the first to shake your hand. Sadly regardless of your reasons for shooting the class I still feel you should've known better and shot at the least AHC. I will extend this invitation right now to join me in Erie and shoot with me. I'm in no way a great shot but guarantee we would have fun.


 I respect you for that and i would love to shot with you in erie. pm me your # and i will call you with where we can meet. Again i was good back in the day but not so much now. i had no ill intent, and maybe i should have gone to ahc, i really didn't want to i wanted to shot with an old friend. as far as entry level class i noted had i shot the score i did last year i would not have won. not sure of the name but one fellow shot 30 up. Thats hard to believe he was entry level.


----------



## Hoyt_em

*the bigger issue I see is the EXTREME number of shooter groups sent back out on the range after the storm blew on thru...LOTS of two and three shooter groups that were obviously friends*. 

I don't care for a "pro" shooter stepping that far down in class, but after reading the explanaiton I find it plausable. I used to shoot MBO...and quite frankly, if you don't have time to put into the yardage end of things, your not going to have fun, and for myself, its why i do it. 

I would like to think Mr Ooten will step up a stake or so in the future, but, as the rules are written he don't hafta do squat. The rest of the hunter class has to step up.

The notion that HC is a beginer class (ibo wording or not) is a crock...I know lots of guys that aren't going to bother with the 75.00 to go shoot 40 arrows, on top of that the expenses that go along with it. The classes are set up so people will shoot what they can be competitive with VS a sound azz whipping and not having a good time. 

My quarters worth...


----------



## Shoot12

drtnshtr said:


> oh yeh what bow did Dave shoot?


nemesis, we shot the bows we hunted with.


----------



## 3rdplace

You guys are just wanting to get back to your Brokeback Mountain days.:mg::mg: I remember seeing all of you crawling out of your tents in Illinois back in the Open A days.


----------



## Shoot12

Hoyt_em said:


> *the bigger issue I see is the EXTREME number of shooter groups sent back out on the range after the storm blew on thru...LOTS of two and three shooter groups that were obviously friends*.
> 
> I don't care for a "pro" shooter stepping that far down in class, but after reading the explanaiton I find it plausable. I used to shoot MBO...and quite frankly, if you don't have time to put into the yardage end of things, your not going to have fun, and for myself, its why i do it.
> 
> I would like to think Mr Ooten will step up a stake or so in the future, but, as the rules are written he don't hafta do squat. The rest of the hunter class has to step up.
> 
> The notion that HC is a beginer class (ibo wording or not) is a crock...I know lots of guys that aren't going to bother with the 75.00 to go shoot 40 arrows, on top of that the expenses that go along with it. The classes are set up so people will shoot what they can be competitive with VS a sound azz whipping and not having a good time.
> 
> My quarters worth...


Well said and thank you


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

*Fun times*

You did have fun back in the day....I won't post the incriminating photos :teeth:


----------



## Shoot12

3rdplace said:


> You guys are just wanting to get back to your Brokeback Mountain days.:mg::mg: I remember seeing all of you crawling out of your tents in Illinois back in the Open A days.


Ouch!!!! Broken back!! lol Back with the ralley hat days


----------



## drtnshtr

3rdplace said:


> You guys are just wanting to get back to your Brokeback Mountain days.:mg::mg: I remember seeing all of you crawling out of your tents in Illinois back in the Open A days.


oh snap I didnt know Marlow was watching...lol


----------



## drtnshtr

Crap Im gonna have to get my fixed pins ready too I guess


----------



## 3rdplace

I remember Dale getting spanked (literally) by you at the end of the range. I about died laughing.


----------



## Shoot12

Ms.Sapphire said:


> You did have fun back in the day....I won't post the incriminating photos :teeth:


Lmao i had hair! look what the cat drug out. how the heck ru? hows ur man?


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

I've been out for a few years. Had wrist and elbow surgery. It's coming along  He is doing good. He has been anti archery since I haven't been shooting. I'm glad you're back out....finally!


----------



## Shoot12

3rdplace said:


> I remember Dale getting spanked (literally) by you at the end of the range. I about died laughing.


I remember him hitting me in the back of the leg with a carbon arrow and i did cry.


----------



## drtnshtr

hair? whats that?


----------



## Shoot12

Ms.Sapphire said:


> I've been out for a few years. Had wrist and elbow surgery. It's coming along  He is doing good. He has been anti archery since I haven't been shooting. I'm glad you're back out....finally!


Well thank you, tell him to call me i built a rifle for the boys he needs to shoot.


----------



## Shoot12

drtnshtr said:


> hair? whats that?


LOL sorry! i'm not far behind you.


----------



## drtnshtr

dude it doesnt get any funnier than Gainesville McDonalds back in the late 90's


----------



## Shoot12

Shoot12 said:


> Well thank you, tell him to call me i built a rifle for the boys he needs to shoot.


Hey why didn't you post the photo of you sitting on my head? lol


----------



## Shoot12

drtnshtr said:


> dude it doesnt get any funnier than Gainesville McDonalds back in the late 90's


No the BAMBI INN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> Hey why didn't you post the photo of you sitting on my head? lol


yeh Rikkki post that one pleeez


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> No the BAMBI INN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


oh heck yeh. do I dare mention the words Jason Held


----------



## Shoot12

drtnshtr said:


> oh heck yeh. do I dare mention the words Jason Held


lmao i saw him a month ago and he is covered in tats


----------



## drtnshtr

I know it dude. I talked to him for a while today on facebook. He still hilarious.


----------



## Shoot12

He is still Jason he will never change. hey rickie post that photo!!! i've never know here to be affraid of anything.


----------



## drtnshtr

she wont do it....lol


----------



## carlosii

so, how was the tick situation at bedford...two years ago i came home covered with them little seed ticks..i hate ticks almost as much as i hate snakes.


----------



## perdieu2011

ticks weren't to bad....but u almost got carried off by the black flies...all i know is they don't taste good...lol


----------



## drtnshtr

I didnt have any ticks...at least not that I have found yet. I better go have my wife check me for ticks...lol


----------



## Shoot12

The flies sucked, i only had two ticks and they were small little ba---rds.


----------



## drtnshtr

yeh man the flies and bugs down on ABCD in and around the cow patties were nasty


----------



## Shoot12

drtnshtr said:


> I didnt have any ticks...at least not that I have found yet. I better go have my wife check me for ticks...lol


Good luck with that! lol


----------



## drtnshtr

Shoot12 said:


> Good luck with that! lol


I may need it tonight


----------



## Shoot12

515a comes early in the am goodnite


----------



## Ohio_3Der

Tony, nice to see you on here. 

Jeremiah

PS, I can't hear your name without thinking about that time at an indoor 3d at fairfield when you were the last shooter left on the line and you FLINCHED RIGHT OUT OF YOUR SKIN. Seeing your face after you let down was PRICELESS! Haha I think you ended up cleaning the twelves for the night anyways.


----------



## parkjssk

To all that shot Bedford good shooting! The problem I have is with I.B.O. My friend shot a 415 w/19x's in HC. This is his first year with a bow. He has and is working really hard to do his best. He was called for a shoot off at the bag area with 2 other guys. Ken anounced to the croud that it was for 1st place shoot off for Hunter Class. The other 2 guys was not there. So we thought that he won. Untill he was called for the 4th place trophy. That sucked. I dont know what happened. If Ken made a mistake or what. If he did he should have fixed the mistake before announceing the results. Then to find out that Tony with his skill was one of the 3 that beat him was upsetting. But like I told him he did better then all 3 of them ahead of him because he is truly green to the sport started shooting on 03/01/2011. He is Hungry watch out people he will give you guys some good compition.


----------



## drtnshtr

later man I will let ya know about erie but as for now Im 90% there


----------



## Bubba Dean

Tony are you coming to London? Haven't seen ya yet this year so I hope so. Don has his own pens now so we should be good. But thanks again for your help last year. WE all appreciate it.

Now as far as this Hunter Class thing................. sure seems to be a lot of crying for a class that doesn't pay back anything but a $4 plaque. As far as you and Travis shooting HC go get em.

On a similar note.....I set up a Mathews Monster for a friend last Tuesday. At the speed that bow shoots he was able to stay in the 10 ring holding his 20 sight setting(holding on the 11) out to 30+yards. So how f'ing tough can HC be if you only need one pin? Don't whine about how tough the courses are either because RU & TRD shoot stickbows and no sights from 5 yards closer.


----------



## drtnshtr

parkjssk said:


> To all that shot Bedford good shooting! The problem I have is with I.B.O. My friend shot a 415 w/19x's in HC. This is his first year with a bow. He has and is working really hard to do his best. He was called for a shoot off at the bag area with 2 other guys. Ken anounced to the croud that it was for 1st place shoot off for Hunter Class. The other 2 guys was not there. So we thought that he won. Untill he was called for the 4th place trophy. That sucked. I dont know what happened. If Ken made a mistake or what. If he did he should have fixed the mistake before announceing the results. Then to find out that Tony with his skill was one of the 3 that beat him was upsetting. But like I told him he did better then all 3 of them ahead of him because he is truly green to the sport started shooting on 03/01/2011. He is Hungry watch out people he will give you guys some good compition.


 sounds like itg may have been a shoot off for 3rd or 4th


----------



## 09Admiral

tagmaster10 said:


> I took a break from tourn. archery for several years and started back this year. One thing I have noticed is that the hunter class is anything but a beginner class. It is the most competitive class with the most entries at every shoot that i have been at so far. I would guess that alot of pro shooters while being competitive, would not just walk over the top hunter class shooters. different set up. I don't care if some pro shooter comes into my class, just gives me more glory to go after.


well said! :thumbs_up


----------



## 09Admiral

Bubba Dean said:


> Tony are you coming to London? Haven't seen ya yet this year so I hope so. Don has his own pens now so we should be good. But thanks again for your help last year. WE all appreciate it.
> 
> Now as far as this Hunter Class thing................. sure seems to be a lot of crying for a class that doesn't pay back anything but a $4 plaque. As far as you and Travis shooting HC go get em.
> 
> On a similar note.....I set up a Mathews Monster for a friend last Tuesday. At the speed that bow shoots he was able to stay in the 10 ring holding his 20 sight setting(holding on the 11) out to 30+yards. So how f'ing tough can HC be if you only need one pin? Don't whine about how tough the courses are either because RU & TRD shoot stickbows and no sights from 5 yards closer.


i believe you should shoot the hunter class at a national event and see if some of those guys dont give you one heck of a run for your money!


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

*For your viewing pleasure*

well I have been busy studying for my biology exam...:mg:....


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

drtnshtr said:


> sounds like itg may have been a shoot off for 3rd or 4th


There wouldn't have been a shoot off for any position for Bedford. Elevens are tie-breakers. If two people have shot the same score whomever has the most elevens gets the higher placing. If elevens are also tied, whomever shot the first eleven gets the higher placement....


----------



## perdieu2011

there was a shoot off for 3rd 4th and 5th...3 way tie 415 with 19 xs......but only 1 guy showed up!!


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

Well I'd be pretty mad if this happened to me. Most people shoot them on Friday and Saturday then leave. How is that fair? grrrr


----------



## Bubba Dean

09 Admiral I'd be one of the those guys with the sticks. Shot compounds for a few years. Shooting 330fps at targets that are 35yds or less ain't that difficult(kinda takes the judging part out of it). Personally I think if IBO went back to just having MBR or maybe having AHC there would be a lot less crying. IF I returned to shooting compound I would shoot MSR since I am over 50 but if I didn't it would be MBO or MBR.


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

Never knew that changed....


----------



## perdieu2011

i totally understand!!!!


----------



## parkjssk

my buddy kevin was the only one their for the shoot off 
He didn't say it was for 4th place


----------



## perdieu2011

Bubba Dean said:


> 09 Admiral I'd be one of the those guys with the sticks. Shot compounds for a few years. Shooting 330fps at targets that are 35yds or less ain't that difficult(kinda takes the judging part out of it). Personally I think if IBO went back to just having MBR or maybe having AHC there would be a lot less crying. IF I returned to shooting compound I would shoot MSR since I am over 50 but if I didn't it would be MBO or MBR.


i'm shooting 330fps.....and couldn't set 1 pin to hit the 11 everytime from 20 to 35 yds.......u still gotta judge yardage to know where to hold that pin!!!!!


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

parkjssk said:


> my buddy kevin was the only one their for the shoot off how id he get 4th then?


Because the shoot off was for 4th place, there were 3 scores 415 and 19x's. So you're friend did win the shoot off, for 4th place.


----------



## drtnshtr

parkjssk said:


> my buddy kevin was the only one their for the shoot off how id he get 4th then?


he wasnt the only one like that. semi pro shooters had the same issue I think. all Im saying is if he had a 415 then Tony didnt have to be there for the shoot off.


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

drtn - was the incriminating picture too much for u guys to handle  jk


----------



## 3Dblackncamo

Shoot12 said:


> nemesis, we shot the bows we hunted with.


what bow would that be if you dont mind me asking


----------



## drtnshtr

Ms.Sapphire said:


> drtn - was the incriminating picture too much for u guys to handle  jk


did you post it?


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

check page 7


----------



## drtnshtr

Ms.Sapphire said:


> well I have been busy studying for my biology exam...:mg:....


niiiiice!! Thanks Rikki


----------



## drtnshtr

3Dblackncamo said:


> what bow would that be if you dont mind me asking


Thats a Ryterra Nemesis 3D


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

yep...uh-huh...sure...
wasn't going to let that one get out...


----------



## drtnshtr

Ms.Sapphire said:


> yep...uh-huh...sure...
> wasn't going to let that one get out...


tooo late its now my screen saver


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

That is my stunt double twin in that photo!


----------



## Ft. Jefferson

J Whittington said:


> based on the written rules he did.... Now what people think and feel is a different story....ex. some folks think ur going to Hell for drinking a beer, and some will say its not a sin if done in moderation, and some will say pour, pour, pour, and pour some more!
> 
> some folks think its okay (and some states its legal) for Homos/****** to adopt children and some of us think (illegal in some states) its a terrible thing....The deffinition of Moral and ethics is so ambigious...that there really is not true defffinition to it....which is sad..of couse thats my opinion,,which doesnt make it LAW


******? Man, I can get sidetracked easily but you are the new champ. ******, you're a beauty, Whit.


----------



## Bubba Dean

perdieu2011 didn't say hit the 11 said aim at at the 11 and stay in the 10


----------



## Wes_C7

I shoot HC and don't have a problem with what Tony did. I have only been shooting for a couple years, but thought I was ready to step in this year and shoot open. After putting up some god awful scores I decided to drop back down to HC to try to build my confidence back up. Now I'm shooting decent and usually shooting anywhere from even to 10 or 15 up, but I know I have to get a lot better. Hopefully sometime ill get paired up with some of you guys, I'm sure I could learn a lot from shooting with you.


----------



## drtnshtr

Ms.Sapphire said:


> That is my stunt double twin in that photo!


riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

Wait........did I say that was me? 

You can't even see the face in the picture.


----------



## johnniecat

After looking at some of Tony competiton and it's may not be a walk in the park for him to win. Because if some of this guy would take Tony advice and pratice!!!! Remember there is 2 more shoots. Ok as far as rules the IBO has a new rule. 10 or more of this guy are going to leave Hunter Class forever after this year. Didn't make to Bedford and won't be at Erie but will shoot Nelsonville. See you all there. CATFISH


----------



## Daniel Boone

So ever body agreeing it OK for former Pros or semi pros to shoot IBO hunter class now and don't think the rules should be changed? Honestly think this is a rule that should be changed. I know several guys who have shot with Tony and know him and his caliper of shooter he is, Tony most said your a really good shooter. I don't know him personally and have nothing against him. But once again the question is he an entry level shooter? NO! Just my thoughts! Another question does this happen allot in IBO Hunter class?

Does everyone get to pick who they want to shoot with at a national event as well?

Should this rule be changed?

DB


----------



## Supershark

Shoot12 said:


> Well thank you, tell him to call me i built a rifle for the boys he needs to shoot.


I would but you never retuen calls and never come around. Jack-wagon you think I would have left early over there if I knew you were around. None of us can forget the last time we were all in the sheep barn... :angry7:

yeah I need to get with you. I have a couple new ones of my own we need to go play with...



Shoot12 said:


> Hey why didn't you post the photo of you sitting on my head? lol


We tried to keep that under wraps for years... you know I wanted that out right off the bat!


----------



## Daniel Boone

One thing in my state ASA in hunter class. We having promblem with committee decision about moving them out of hunter. Guys dont want to go to Open class and this I understand.

I think the ASA should have advanced hunter class which anyone from that point on can shoot pins. 
DB


----------



## Supershark

...I had to comeback and edit this... For the simple fact that I did not coment on the whole "former" Pro being in the HC. and I will be nice (at first), How long have you been away from the IBO, Tony? I believe it was 2007-2008? To me it is fine, I see no issues with someone being away for 3-4 years and coming back and shooting whatever they want. At least he attended a IBO event, which I thought would never happen again. As for coming down in class. I could care less if current senior pro Derry null comes down to hunter class. Who cares as long as they show to the event. Am I friend saying that? Yes, I do consider myself a friend. Am I a IBO member saying this? Yes, Maybe I am not all that conserned about who and what class they shoot it. But, maybe the fact that someone that swore off the IBO returned. Not playing the game he was when he left, of shooting a scope and 50 yards but a set of pins or pin and 35 yards. It still takes a skill set to do. (enough of being nice now) So, if everyone wants to Piss and Moan, like a bunch of little whinning B----es. Everyone that shot above 400 off to the Pro class with you. No excuses, go. I dont remember anyone complaining and B----ing about the guy at the indoors that shot a 433? IT'S HUNTER CLASS! IT'S 35 YARDS. THERE ARE THOSE THAT CAN JUDGE AND HOLD WELL.

He only won by 4 points. To me it means he is starting to suck... 
Since a Pro is a Pro is a Pro; You should have shot perfect... Do better next time Tony. That is horrible what were you thinking...

not to rub salt in the wound or anything... Did you stick around and get your plague and a handshake from Ken?


----------



## indiana35

I'm the knucklehead that posted 2nd or 3rd with the links of Tony as a Professional Shooter. Have you ever done something or said something too quick and regretted it? My frustration with situations like this is not Tony, he called prior to shooting, asked if it was ok... IBO said all Clear. That's all the obligation he has. The frustration is when as a group we just accept, well the rules are the rules and that's enough. In tax code there is something called, "the rules," and then the "spirit of the law." Basically, what was the premise or reason for those rules being formed? 

My understanding was that the IBO saw a need to attract newer shooters. They did that by providing HC w/ limited equipment and max 35 yards. This lowered the probability of of less experianced shooters going out and being embarassed with low scores or feeling bad about blanking targets. It worked. It attracted more shooters, but it also pulled experianced shooters from more advanced classes down with hopes of winning. My concern is that this will just continue to to beat up on the "new guys" and we are just going to have another cycle of short term spike in participation and it will die off again. I jumped to a conclusion, it "appeared" on the surface that here was an very good archer that jumped down to a class to be a "big fish in a small pond," and that wasn't the case at all. Does that mean it isn't happening? It absolutely is... and I think it could hurt long term growth despite the current short term participation. Tony's only "mistakes" in my opinion 1.) not realizing that he could still shot AHC with his buddy shooting HC on the same courses at the same time... (at least you could last year)... 2.) having a damn good day of shooting (really impressive), but reading his post, I don't believe he went to the shoot with intentions of a "win." Tony, I do hope you feel good how you shot... sorry for all this, but its a problem of the sport for participation... but its not your problem alone. Making "ass"umptions about your intents did to me exactly what assuming does... made an ***** out of me.

A.) Tony, you don't need me to tell you that you didn't do anything wrong, you called and were cleared to go for it...
B.) It is my belief that HC has turned into something that was not the original intent was... One of the biggest events years ago was Morman Lake, AZ... they had two competitive courses and 7 courses set up that were non-competitive... they didn't turn scores in at all. Families and friends went out on the courses together. At the time, it was larger (I believe...) than the IBO World for participation... camping, fun, family, friends... kind of like what Tony was hoping for this weekend...
C.) It is my belief that neither the ASA, IBO, or NFAA has anyone "getting" rich from the events, I don't know the accounting... but I know at those events they are a ton of people working their tails off so I can show up, go out and shoot a course and feel good about myself.
D.) I have spent ZERO time volunteering, participating, or helping in any form or fashion with any of these organizations... thats equivalent to complaining about Obama and not having voted...
E.) Tony, I would still like to give you crap for shooting HC... but it should have a more sarcastic tone... one that would encourage you to come up to AHC and kick my tail... you've got some momentum going for sure. 

Sorry guys for fanning a flame that wasn't there.
Jeff Umbaugh
Plymouth, IN


----------



## 3rdplace

Daniel Boone said:


> One thing in my state ASA in hunter class. We having promblem with committee decision about moving them out of hunter. Guys dont want to go to Open class and this I understand.
> 
> *I think the ASA should have advanced hunter class which anyone from that point on can shoot pins.*
> DB


 Hunter class is an "advanced class" in ASA Dan. Novice would be the Entry level. Also remember : ASA club and area representatives and state directors have the authority and responsibility to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery performance or experience, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization. ASA Pro/Am and Federation earnings (if known) will be considered.


----------



## Daniel Boone

3rdplace said:


> Hunter class is an "advanced class" in ASA Dan. Novice would be the Entry level. Also remember : ASA club and area representatives and state directors have the authority and responsibility to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery performance or experience, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization. ASA Pro/Am and Federation earnings (if known) will be considered.


I understand that and that makes it tough on the committee to make this call without someone getting upset. Right now my thoughts and the committee are if you win state twice your out. That leaves these shooters no where to go but open class. Some just want to shoot pins and dont see why they should not have that class. Open class has many options.
DB


----------



## drtnshtr

Does anyone know if IBO puts the amount of $$$ people win on their site? I see a place for it but didnt notice anything listed from previous shoots/scores. Im sure it will take them a while to sort through the people that entered the money and those that didnt.


----------



## dsp3472

I think they do a little later on.


----------



## Fire Archer

Bubba Dean said:


> perdieu2011 didn't say hit the 11 said aim at at the 11 and stay in the 10


Shooting 10's in the HC won't do you alot of good. You have to shoot 11's.


----------



## reylamb

Well, since rootin tootin tony ooten is for sure going to be in the Jelly state for the upcoming ASA festivities.......I gotta convince ole Sasquatch Mike Lee to make the ride now for sure.........

As far as good times and goofing off........I aint real sure anything can top the events at Longhorn steak house in Gainesville a few years ago....a 21st birthday party that girl will never forget!!!!!! 

I have still not gotten on a go-kart since you t-boned me as I was stalled that evening in Augusta.....


----------



## reylamb

Daniel Boone said:


> One thing in my state ASA in hunter class. We having promblem with committee decision about moving them out of hunter. Guys dont want to go to Open class and this I understand.
> 
> I think the ASA should have advanced hunter class which anyone from that point on can shoot pins.
> DB


Unlimited Dan, they can go to unlimited and simply shoot with their short stabilizer. There is no move out rule ever for the Unlimited class.


----------



## Ohbowhunter815

Alot of respect for Mr. Ooten stepping up, which he didnt have to because he broke no rules. That being said I would like to see the rules changed, I think AHC is the perfect spot for Mr. Ooten as well as half the top 10 that have either shot Semi Pro, Open, or HC lifers. Make it a true entry level class, but once again IBO doesn't want to run people off so they will keep it staus quo.


----------



## perdieu2011

definately need to shoot 11's in hc....u shoot an 8 and very likely your outta the race!!!


----------



## perdieu2011

whats goin on Umbaugh??? i seen that u and terry shot ahc!!!! I take it that terry is able to draw a bow again??


----------



## maddiemoo

well I wasn't gonna post but I can't keep quiet. My name is kevin Marsh and I got fourth place at Bedford. when I got into this in March I decided that I was gonna shoot in the Hunter class. Everybody told me that that was the herdest class to win. But to me it was the beginner class and I did not care if there was people that was sand bagging or people that had been shooting for years. I wanted competition and the reason I went to the nationals is because I am a competitor. Yes I do this for fun but if you did not like it then I sure would not do it at all. Yes when I found out at the awards that I got beat it was frustrating then when I found out that the guys that beat me had been doing it for years it made me think WOW! maybe I do have patential. Maybe I can win I was so nerves at my first target that when I stepped up to shoot I forgot my release. I shot a 415 and my first 6 targets is where I got my only 2 eights. I was 6 points behind Tony damn if only my nerves have not got the best of me. So that being said I feel really good about myself and Tony I want you to shoot the rest of the triple crown because that just gives me more drive to do better. A good friend of mine Gary Studt told me that you are a stand up guy but really competitive. Tony if you go to Erie I want meet up because we will get along great. But you better practice because I'm bringing it. To everybody else lets drop this because If a novice and I am a novice can shoot a 415 at a national leval then that means there are some people that do have what it takes to be a good shooter and the ones that are whinning mabey they just don't have it. TONY you did good and I appriciate you helping me get better because if I would have won then I would have probably have just relaxed and thought I don't need to keep practicing and at Erie would have probably got my butt handed to me. GREAT JOB TONY


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## Daniel Boone

reylamb said:


> Unlimited Dan, they can go to unlimited and simply shoot with their short stabilizer. There is no move out rule ever for the Unlimited class.


Unlimited hardly has any shooters at all. 50yards I believe as well. I think they should have a class to shoot short stabilers and 40yrds if they want. But cant please everyone.
DB


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## treeman65

Daniel Boone said:


> Unlimited hardly has any shooters at all. 50yards I believe as well. I think they should have a class to shoot short stabilers and 40yrds if they want. But cant please everyone.
> DB


thats the rules if you dont like them go get them changed.:wink:


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## reylamb

Daniel Boone said:


> Unlimited hardly has any shooters at all. 50yards I believe as well. I think they should have a class to shoot short stabilers and 40yrds if they want. But cant please everyone.
> DB


45 yards actually, which is only 5 more than hunter class. If more guys jumped to Unlimited instead of an Open class there would be more shooters!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Daniel Boone

treeman65 said:


> thats the rules if you dont like them go get them changed.:wink:


Have no promblems with the rules. I hoping for a solution to those who want to stay in bowhunter. I play by the rules or yes I have tried to change them on the NFAA level. Still need to put your name in your profile if you going to talk smack and call others out for posting there opionions.
DB


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## Daniel Boone

reylamb said:


> 45 yards actually, which is only 5 more than hunter class. If more guys jumped to Unlimited instead of an Open class there would be more shooters!!!!!!!!!!!!


Unlimieted on state level is wasted class. Are biggest is hunter class. 
DB


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## Rick hall

maddiemoo said:


> well I wasn't gonna post but I can't keep quiet. My name is kevin Marsh and I got fourth place at Bedford. when I got into this in March I decided that I was gonna shoot in the Hunter class. Everybody told me that that was the herdest class to win. But to me it was the beginner class and I did not care if there was people that was sand bagging or people that had been shooting for years. I wanted competition and the reason I went to the nationals is because I am a competitor. Yes I do this for fun but if you did not like it then I sure would not do it at all. Yes when I found out at the awards that I got beat it was frustrating then when I found out that the guys that beat me had been doing it for years it made me think WOW! maybe I do have patential. Maybe I can win I was so nerves at my first target that when I stepped up to shoot I forgot my release. I shot a 415 and my first 6 targets is where I got my only 2 eights. I was 6 points behind Tony damn if only my nerves have not got the best of me. So that being said I feel really good about myself and Tony I want you to shoot the rest of the triple crown because that just gives me more drive to do better. A good friend of mine Gary Studt told me that you are a stand up guy but really competitive. Tony if you go to Erie I want meet up because we will get along great. But you better practice because I'm bringing it. To everybody else lets drop this because If a novice and I am a novice can shoot a 415 at a national leval then that means there are some people that do have what it takes to be a good shooter and the ones that are whinning mabey they just don't have it. TONY you did good and I appriciate you helping me get better because if I would have won then I would have probably have just relaxed and thought I don't need to keep practicing and at Erie would have probably got my butt handed to me. GREAT JOB TONY


Congradulations Kevin on your shooting and welcome to this addictive game. I remember my first IBO, (took 3rd in HF, yes we used to have a good turn out in hunter fingers). Always felt good to compete w/ the best. Remember the real reason we shoot this game is to be the best possible shot on the game animals we hunt. Remember how much fun you had ok, and try not to get to caught up in the scoring. Bad things can and will happen if you focus only on outcome. Erie is a great shoot, but it's probably going to be a little tougher, (most of you that have shoot erie know what I'm talking about). I love your out look @ the current situation. Great response. Good luck and have fun!!


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## drtnshtr

maddiemoo said:


> well I wasn't gonna post but I can't keep quiet. My name is kevin Marsh and I got fourth place at Bedford. when I got into this in March I decided that I was gonna shoot in the Hunter class. Everybody told me that that was the herdest class to win. But to me it was the beginner class and I did not care if there was people that was sand bagging or people that had been shooting for years. I wanted competition and the reason I went to the nationals is because I am a competitor. Yes I do this for fun but if you did not like it then I sure would not do it at all. Yes when I found out at the awards that I got beat it was frustrating then when I found out that the guys that beat me had been doing it for years it made me think WOW! maybe I do have patential. Maybe I can win I was so nerves at my first target that when I stepped up to shoot I forgot my release. I shot a 415 and my first 6 targets is where I got my only 2 eights. I was 6 points behind Tony damn if only my nerves have not got the best of me. So that being said I feel really good about myself and Tony I want you to shoot the rest of the triple crown because that just gives me more drive to do better. A good friend of mine Gary Studt told me that you are a stand up guy but really competitive. Tony if you go to Erie I want meet up because we will get along great. But you better practice because I'm bringing it. To everybody else lets drop this because If a novice and I am a novice can shoot a 415 at a national leval then that means there are some people that do have what it takes to be a good shooter and the ones that are whinning mabey they just don't have it. TONY you did good and I appriciate you helping me get better because if I would have won then I would have probably have just relaxed and thought I don't need to keep practicing and at Erie would have probably got my butt handed to me. GREAT JOB TONY


Good shooting!


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## Supermag1

Daniel Boone said:


> Unlimieted on state level is wasted class. Are biggest is hunter class.
> DB


Maybe if more people got bumped up from the Hunter class and pointed in that direction, it wouldn't be a wasted class. A little promotion can go a long ways.


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## Dale #44

I have known Tony for a long time and he has done nothing wrong. when shooting becomes a 2nd and 3rd JOB it isnt any fun anymore so Tony went back to having fun. I did not know the HC was a beginers class I thought is was for people that liked to hunt and target shoot both. so hats off to Tony for shooting something that he had fun shooting hope I have fun again some day.


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## Daniel Boone

Good luck in IBO with former semi pros and pros shooting hunter class. I just dont see it to be good for them. I think they need to rewrite the rules.
DB


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## Shoot12

You know DB i agree and disagree at the same time. First how long do you need to be away from the pro class to shoot what you want in 3d. Point in case in Vegas an active Pro class shooter can step into the bow hunter class and win, no issues. So I ask you at what piont can I who shot Pro class 3 years ago ( and did poorly ) and hardly shoots at all currently can move into hc and have fun again? Second big props to Kevin for a very positive tud and shooting at erie. With an out look like his he will be a great shooter! Now had I been a current Pro it would be a different story. So, how long does someone need to be out before you can shoot what you want?


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## drtnshtr

Dude I would say at least 3-4 days out of Pro class anyways....lol


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## 6rob4

how many people on this thread does tony shooting hc effect most of you dont shoot hc so why the hell do you care .he broke no rules so who cares.its not like he dropped down and won $1000.00 he won a damn trophy that his wife will have to dust once a week .is it really worth crying about until erie comes and goes and you start crying about someone new .i dont know the guy but good shooting tony keep it up.


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## Daniel Boone

Shoot12 said:


> You know DB i agree and disagree at the same time. First how long do you need to be away from the pro class to shoot what you want in 3d. Point in case in Vegas an active Pro class shooter can step into the bow hunter class and win, no issues. So I ask you at what piont can I who shot Pro class 3 years ago ( and did poorly ) and hardly shoots at all currently can move into hc and have fun again? Second big props to Kevin for a very positive tud and shooting at erie. With an out look like his he will be a great shooter! Now had I been a current Pro it would be a different story. So, how long does someone need to be out before you can shoot what you want?


Tony many of shooting partners know you well and shoot against you. They were truly surprised to hear you shot in Hunter class. From your score you haven't lost your shooting ability's. You mentioned Derry Null who I have shot with in the pro class. I doubt Derry would ever drop back and shoot hunter class. You broke no rules and from your posts here you weren't surprised at all the comments. We can all learn from this. My hopes it doesn't keep an inspiring new archer from saying I cant compete on that level. There are classes I feel guys can move back into from semi and pros but Hunter wouldn't be one of them. We all want archery to advance and inspire new archers. 
DB


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## Dale #44

I really wish that all of this drama would stop in the archery world it really sucks that a person can not go do something they enjoy with out being put down in some way.


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## bow-legged

Tony you should be ashamed! Stay out of the the adult beginner class! If you need to beat up on beginners to have fun then I don't know what to say. You have acomplished a lot In this sport why take away from the beginners! If you must shoot HC don't turn your card in. It's not like you should be proud to hang the plaque on the wall! You should know better!


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## bigdonracing

This is the same bs ,is why i and other dont go,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Shoot12

First of all i'm not ashamed at all! i have nothing to be ashamed of. i shot the hc because i wanted to. i didn't stay to collect anything. in fact i had no concern at all if i had won or not thats not why i went. as far as beating up on beginners to have fun that is far from the truth. I never once thought of the hc as a beginner class and i bet most persons in that class aren't.


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## bow-legged

I agree that there are some people in HC that are not beginners. But you took it to a new low.


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## flintcreek6412

Here's my limited take on the matter......

I shot the Triple Crown circuit for that last 2 years. It only took me my first shoot in Bedford 2009 to realize that HC was not in fact a beginner class. Guys were shooting in the 410s and 420s like crazy with back tension, spring steel rests and other things that most wouldn't consider a beginner type of equipment. I was just happy I didn't finish last and made my goal of shooting in the 380s. When I checked the scores a week later I got curious and checked some of the top names. These guys have been shooting HC for many years. Most were certainly not novices.

I learned right then and there that I will shoot to have fun. I am realistic enough to know I don't have a chance to place well. And I shouldn't. I don't put in near the time some of these guys do. And that's what I've done. I shoot with some buddies and have fun. And yes, we do break ourselves up but there really isn't a point since we don't cheat and don't even come close to placing anyway but who needs to be questioned.

So here comes this year and a former pro winning. Is it right. I don't know. But who cares. It was within the rules. He shot with a friend and had fun. One year we had a buddy drop from the Sr HC to the HC because we found out we shot different ranges. We wanted to shoot together as friends. He didn't gripe that he was shooting against 20 year old with better eyes. We had fun. Isn't that the point?

I think the problem is that some egos got seriously bruised by HC guys that have been cleaning up for years staying put at the top of the class. If you have been shooting 10 and 20 points up for years maybe you're not a beginner. Some guys take these events so serious and their identity is tied to their performance at these events. Pretty sad IMO. I sometimes wonder if they ever have any fun at all with all the whining they do. To me, shooting these national events would be like playing Augusta....I do it for fun and enjoy every second of it(other than the bugs).

Congrats to the winner. I'm glad you had fun with a friend. Maybe some others could learn to have a little more fun too. Would they still shoot if there were no trophies?


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## flintcreek6412

One more point to make!!!

I just looked at the top 10 scores in HC. I then entered each of those names in the IBO Individual Results search. Guess what. only 2 of the top 10 would I consider novices/beginners or whatever. All of the others have already competed at the national level with this being at least their second year. Several have dropped down to this class from either AHC or MBO and one dropped from SPM. That is just in the top 10. If I dug deeper it would become obvious that this is not a beginner class. 

So, those that are complaining the most, I'd be curious to see what your IBO event history is.


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## drtnshtr

flintcreek6412 said:


> One more point to make!!!
> 
> I just looked at the top 10 scores in HC. I then entered each of those names in the IBO Individual Results search. Guess what. only 2 of the top 10 would I consider novices/beginners or whatever. All of the others have already competed at the national level with this being at least their second year. Several have dropped down to this class from either AHC or MBO and one dropped from SPM. That is just in the top 10. If I dug deeper it would become obvious that this is not a beginner class.
> 
> So, those that are complaining the most, I'd be curious to see what your IBO event history is.


 This is a good point Flint that I never thought of before all this started. It does make me feel bad for the guys in HC class that are truly beginners and may be discouraged because they cant seem to climb the ladder more quickly. I hope they love the sport enough to keep shooting. I am not a fan of more classes but it does seem like there should be a class the novice can go to in the IBO where they can compete against other novice shooters. Until then they need to practice hard!


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## Daniel Boone

flintcreek6412 said:


> One more point to make!!!
> 
> I just looked at the top 10 scores in HC. I then entered each of those names in the IBO Individual Results search. Guess what. only 2 of the top 10 would I consider novices/beginners or whatever. All of the others have already competed at the national level with this being at least their second year. Several have dropped down to this class from either AHC or MBO and one dropped from SPM. That is just in the top 10. If I dug deeper it would become obvious that this is not a beginner class.
> 
> So, those that are complaining the most, I'd be curious to see what your IBO event history is.


Then they need to change entry level shooter. Heck at the ASA Novice class I highly doubt most are novice shooters. I know the one guy from my state who shot in it at a Pro am wasnt. Just an easy win for him. I would like to hear IBO stance on this! Ken lurks on here, maybe he come give his opionion.
DB


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## jre4192

How many novice shooters even shoot a NATIONAL level event? More so why would any novice shooter expect to be competitive at a NATIONAL level?


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## alfabuck

In a nutshell the way i always looked at it is we can sit here and complain on a computer or just go out and practice. I never checked who the people were who beat me at any shoots i attended , i just realized i have to get that much better to compete and in a way it gives you goals to achieve and makes you better your game. Not saying i take either side on this matter but i know the first year i shot HC there were a lot of guys who been there for a while. I never cared, it made me strive to be better and practice harder. I go out there to do what i love to do and have a little competition , if im shooting against a veteran and i can beat them thats all the better. I just hope everyone has fun out there and is happy to just be out there doing what they love because some people arent as fortunate as us with good health and other issues and would give the shirt off their back to be able to get out there and shoot like all of us do. Life is too short get out there and have fun.


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## Daniel Boone

jre4192 said:


> How many novice shooters even shoot a NATIONAL level event? More so why would any novice shooter expect to be competitive at a NATIONAL level?


Novice class are some of the more popular classes in ASA. Doesnt matter iof your novice or a pro. Dont really see your point. Pro ams and National shoots are often where most archers get addicted.
DB


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## jre4192

Daniel Boone said:


> Novice class are some of the more popular classes in ASA. Doesnt matter iof your novice or a pro. Dont really see your point. Pro ams and National shoots are often where most archers get addicted.
> DB


I thought we had already determined that majority of the ASA "Novice" class were not novices?


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## possumtracks421

alfabuck said:


> In a nutshell the way i always looked at it is we can sit here and complain on a computer or just go out and practice. I never checked who the people were who beat me at any shoots i attended , i just realized i have to get that much better to compete and in a way it gives you goals to achieve and makes you better your game. Not saying i take either side on this matter but i know the first year i shot HC there were a lot of guys who been there for a while. I never cared, it made me strive to be better and practice harder. I go out there to do what i love to do and have a little competition , if im shooting against a veteran and i can beat them thats all the better. I just hope everyone has fun out there and is happy to just be out there doing what they love because some people arent as fortunate as us with good health and other issues and would give the shirt off their back to be able to get out there and shoot like all of us do. Life is too short get out there and have fun.



Fun is what it is all about. I was unable to shoot Bedford due to an eye injury but did attend to visit friends and what I like to call my "extended family" that I only see at these events. Needless to say, having fun and being with friends and family is what it is all about, in my opinion. And I still had a great time even though I couldn't shoot the event.


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## Daniel Boone

jre4192 said:


> I thought we had already determined that majority of the ASA "Novice" class were not novices?


Bow novice is the class Im talking about. Think the title says it all. ASA does a good job monitoring the classes and move up lists.
DB


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## TRIPLETT

I guess i may as well put my 2 cents worth in. First "Congrats" Tony on some fine shooting. The HC class
has been a problem since it was first interduced. We need a place for beginners to play and have fun
without getting embarrassed. I do not think a 35 yrd aprox. class is a beginners class to begin with.
Since this class has started they (IBO) has taken the money out of it, didn't help. Then they took the SOY award away from it,didn't help. What this tells me is this is a very poplar class and people like to shoot it. So, what do we do now? This is a ideal i have passed on to a couple of the B.O.D. guys at the IBO. Have a class and call it something like BHC. Basic Hunting Class. You come in and pay a 20-25$ fee, get your cards and go shoot. There is no set flag, you can shoot from any flag you want to try. When you are done you turn your cards in and no scores are posted. The cards are drawed at random for prizes. There are no classes, men , women, kids can all shoot and have the same chance to win, doesn't matter what their score is and it doesn't get posted. They can shoot this class for however long they want because score doesn't matter. I do not belive any of the HC classes are beginner classes, give them back their SOY. I also think there should be a speed limit on the HC classes and if you want more speed move on. Just my thoughts
Triplett


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## alfabuck

I dont know if anyone noticed but Tony has been removed from the results of the HC. It is unfortunate that this went this far since he said he went out shooting for fun but at least now this thread should quiet down. I feel as if we should just go and shoot to have a good time and a little competition and we should all stick together as we are all ambassadors of the sport. IMO sitting here arguing amongst one another is doing just as much damage to the sport as is so called sandbaggers. Everyone should shoot what they want when they want and above all project a positive image for the sport while having fun doing so. We are all brothers of the bow and we are all blessed enough to be able to get out of bed in the morning and shoot our bows. The last thing we should do is argue amongst one another.


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## sagecreek

It wouldn't suprise me if all the Pro's don't sign up for HC at the next shoot. :wink:


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## bow-legged

sagecreek said:


> It wouldn't suprise me if all the Pro's don't sign up for HC at the next shoot. :wink:


But what will they do if they want to have fun! LOL


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## TRIPLETT

sagecreek, wouldn't work, no money in it 
alfabuck
I agree with you 100%. When i go to a shoot i shoot the best i can for me. After that it's all about having
fun and seeing your friends. If i was a Pro it might be different but i'd bet if some of the Pro's learned to
have more fun they would shoot better too. I hate to see Tony's name removed from the top. He did not
do anything wrong. He played by the rules he was given and came out on top. Being a state rep, everytime i bring up something that i think is a problem all i hear is "babysteps". Well people (IBO) i'm
here to tell you the baby is all grown up. He's the biggest class you have and he deservies more 
attention than he's getting. We have been babbysteping around this issue for way to long. There's ways
to fix it, and yes it may cost a few shooters to begin with but it can be fixed and the shooters will return. Tony "CONGRATS" on your shooting and i hope you come back to play with us. If you come
to Erie come over to camp on sat night and i'll fix ya a hotdog or 2.
Triplett


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## sagecreek

TRIPLETT said:


> sagecreek, wouldn't work, no money in it
> ...


I was thinking more along the lines of making a statement, good or bad.

Thier sponsors probably wouldn't let them anyways.


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## Rush

I agree with Triplett a lot. One thing we all have to remember, there are very few of us that are fortunate to make a living at this sport, so you better have fun doing it. Now I'm there to win, however, more importantly is seeing my friends, whether I win or not, I always have a good time, and friendships are more important than winning anyday!


----------



## drtnshtr

alfabuck said:


> I dont know if anyone noticed but Tony has been removed from the results of the HC. It is unfortunate that this went this far since he said he went out shooting for fun but at least now this thread should quiet down. I feel as if we should just go and shoot to have a good time and a little competition and we should all stick together as we are all ambassadors of the sport. IMO sitting here arguing amongst one another is doing just as much damage to the sport as is so called sandbaggers. Everyone should shoot what they want when they want and above all project a positive image for the sport while having fun doing so. We are all brothers of the bow and we are all blessed enough to be able to get out of bed in the morning and shoot our bows. The last thing we should do is argue amongst one another.


Yep I doubt if we see Tony at another IBO unless he just decides to take his frustration out on some of the haters. I was just looking forward to some of us old friends having some fun too. Sad!


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## Daniel Boone

drtnshtr said:


> Yep I doubt if we see Tony at another IBO unless he just decides to take his frustration out on some of the haters. I was just looking forward to some of us old friends having some fun too. Sad!


I doubt this thread going to effect Tony shooting other events. Win will only fuel the fire.
DB


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## TRIPLETT

bow-legged said:


> But what will they do if they want to have fun! LOL


 Come over to my camp for a hot dog, what else!!


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## bow-legged

I will be there!! I have fun shooting and eating! I'm better at eating!


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## BlueElite

I haven't read through every page here but let's looks at some things here. HC was won by a former Pro, MBO was won by a former Pro, SPM was won by last year's shooter of the year, last year's shooter of the year in mbo is still shooting mbo. There is no doubt that IBO needs some sort of move up rule although in 2 out of 4 of the above cases I don't think it would have applied.


----------



## Ms.Sapphire

drtnshtr said:


> Yep I doubt if we see Tony at another IBO unless he just decides to take his frustration out on some of the haters. I was just looking forward to some of us old friends having some fun too. Sad!


:sad:

sad that it has come to this...


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## drtnshtr

Daniel Boone said:


> I doubt this thread going to effect Tony shooting other events. Win will only fuel the fire.
> DB


maybe not ASA but I highly doubt he shoots IBO anytime again soon after this. he took a break from IBO until this year. I was really surprised to see him back to begin with.


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## rock monkey

i got it.......

for all the guys that took archery sabbaticals, ask for permission from the court of public opinion before entering. it'll save you a TON of headaches.


ASA is all things good about archery and has powers of papal infallibility
IBO is all things evil about 3D and run by a money hoarding demon.
NFAA is all things evil about everything else left in archery run by the 3 monkeys of see, hear and speak no evil.


----------



## markb317

BlueElite said:


> I haven't read through every page here but let's looks at some things here. HC was won by a former Pro, MBO was won by a former Pro, SPM was won by last year's shooter of the year, last year's shooter of the year in mbo is still shooting mbo. There is no doubt that IBO needs some sort of move up rule although in 2 out of 4 of the above cases I don't think it would have applied.


Just to correct you here the winner of MBO (Chad Chenault) is not a former Pro. He has only shot in the Open Class, at ASA he shoots Open A.


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## drtnshtr

markb317 said:


> Just to correct you here the winner of MBO (Chad Chenault) is not a former Pro. He has only shot in the Open Class, at ASA he shoots Open A.


They may have been referring to Joe G. He shot Pro a few years ago I think and was in 1st place until they broke the tie.


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## 3Dblackncamo

markb317 said:


> Just to correct you here the winner of MBO (Chad Chenault) is not a former Pro. He has only shot in the Open Class, at ASA he shoots Open A.


chad is not a sandbagger, he is just trying to do his best and work his way up, gotta respect that


----------



## drtnshtr

3Dblackncamo said:


> chad is not a sandbagger, he is just trying to do his best and work his way up, gotta respect that


Not to mention these guys are shooting MBO class which is anything but a non competitive class. I shot semi pro for a few years prior to taking off a few completely. Im just now starting to shoot again and MBO is my class of choice in IBO and Open B will be where I shoot in ASA. Open B is a blast with a good mix of folks that either shoot a bunch or folks that rarely practice.


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## 6rob4

why was tony moved to #221 with a score of 0 and 0x count did ibo do it or was tony tired of all the crying.i hope he comes to erie and shoots 30 up in hc.


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## Ohbowhunter815

I would imagine he removed himself considering there were no rules broken. Unfortunately I'm sure this expierience has soured the man to the point that he probably wont be back here or the IBO anytime soon. I do not know him only speculating. Me personally I didnt appreciate the personal attacks to the man himself and made several posts on this thread myself only criticizing the IBO for allowing him to be eligble to shoot HC. If the IBO had a rule "no former Semi or Pro shooters in HC none of this would have happened. Mr Ooten would have chose to not shoot or shoot AHC and there would've been no complaints. Now we've ran off in my impression from the friends that stood up for him and the man himself on here a good ambasador, competitor and sounds like a fun guy to hang out with.

Enough with the personal attacks, although they slowed down after he showed up to defend himself, everyones all to ready to pass judgement on someone without walking a mile in their shoes. I still stand behind all my posts on this thread, but IMO there are a few of you that owe the man apology. Nothing wrong with playing by the rules. The bashing slowed down but very few of you that were quick to judge have been back to the thread to post anything after you heard his side of the story. How many have changed their minds and if you have then man up and say so.......


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## charlie hustle

guys get a job, or practice you have to much time to b.s...............


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## wpk

I am the one who started this thread and I talked to Tony on the phone the outher night for about an hour and he is a very very nice guy he did not have to call me but he did that tells me what kind of man he is after talking to him I changed my opinion on the hole thing and beleave he did shoot with a old friend just to have fun and after thinking about it more its not his falt it is the IBO's 
Tony I am sorry for taking the fun out of it for you again and for starting this thread with out knowing you or your side of it sincerely Wes Keen


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## Daniel Boone

wpk said:


> I am the one who started this thread and I talked to Tony on the phone the outher night for about an hour and he is a very very nice guy he did not have to call me but he did that tells me what kind of man he is after talking to him I changed my opinion on the hole thing and beleave he did shoot with a old friend just to have fun and after thinking about it more its not his falt it is the IBO's
> Tony I am sorry for taking the fun out of it for you again and for starting this thread with out knowing you or your side of it sincerely Wes Keen


Why do you have two names here?
DB


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## drtnshtr

Ohbowhunter815 said:


> I would imagine he removed himself considering there were no rules broken. Unfortunately I'm sure this expierience has soured the man to the point that he probably wont be back here or the IBO anytime soon. I do not know him only speculating. Me personally I didnt appreciate the personal attacks to the man himself and made several posts on this thread myself only criticizing the IBO for allowing him to be eligble to shoot HC. If the IBO had a rule "no former Semi or Pro shooters in HC none of this would have happened. Mr Ooten would have chose to not shoot or shoot AHC and there would've been no complaints. Now we've ran off in my impression from the friends that stood up for him and the man himself on here a good ambasador, competitor and sounds like a fun guy to hang out with.
> 
> Enough with the personal attacks, although they slowed down after he showed up to defend himself, everyones all to ready to pass judgement on someone without walking a mile in their shoes. I still stand behind all my posts on this thread, but IMO there are a few of you that owe the man apology. Nothing wrong with playing by the rules. The bashing slowed down but very few of you that were quick to judge have been back to the thread to post anything after you heard his side of the story. How many have changed their minds and if you have then man up and say so.......


I havent talked to Tony since the other night but Im pretty sure he called and dq'd himself. Yeh I would say he wont shoot another IBO anytime soon. It already took him 4 years to come back and shoot this one. He did say it was a mistake for him to shoot HC but he didnt think he would win. Im sure he didnt think 21 up would win it either since the scores have been so high in that class. He did shoot it with an old friend of ours that has not shot in several years and thought it would just be fun for a change.


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## mocheese

Glad everyone could kiss and make up. However, my stance is unchanged. An archer such as the one in question should know better than to sign up in an "Entry Level" class. I've never won anything in the IBO but I surely wouldn't feel right signing up in the Hunter Class anymore!


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## Rush

TRIPLETT said:


> Come over to my camp for a hot dog, what else!!


Good times to be had at Triplett's Camp! Always is!


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## TRIPLETT

We >>------------> aim to please


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## bow-legged

TRIPLETT said:


> We >>------------> aim to please


I'm getting hungry just thinking about it!


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## southpaw3d

First of all, to all you guys that are complaining about former Pros and semi pros dropping back to shoot, "lower classes," as someone put it. When you start paying the entry fees for these guys, and paying all the other expenses, then maybe these guys would still be competing in the pro divisions. Or maybe, these guys don't have the time to put into it, like they once did, but still want to shoot, and have fun with their friends. Or maybe some of the guys are complaining because they placed 65th instead of 64th because a pro dropped back. Look, everyone that goes to these shoots obviously loves the sport of archery, so why are we critisizing anyone because of what class they shoot, if Levi Morgan drops back to my class and beats me, oh well, I'll just have to try harder next time, but the reality is, I'm not in this for the money, I love to shoot and have a good time with my friends, that 's why I shoot in the MBO.


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## Daniel Boone

southpaw3d said:


> First of all, to all you guys that are complaining about former Pros and semi pros dropping back to shoot, "lower classes," as someone put it. When you start paying the entry fees for these guys, and paying all the other expenses, then maybe these guys would still be competing in the pro divisions. Or maybe, these guys don't have the time to put into it, like they once did, but still want to shoot, and have fun with their friends. Or maybe some of the guys are complaining because they placed 65th instead of 64th because a pro dropped back. Look, everyone that goes to these shoots obviously loves the sport of archery, so why are we critisizing anyone because of what class they shoot, if Levi Morgan drops back to my class and beats me, oh well, I'll just have to try harder next time, but the reality is, I'm not in this for the money, I love to shoot and have a good time with my friends, that 's why I shoot in the MBO.



Its an entry level class. Move back to semi or drop one or two classes but dont go back to entry level classes. Thats the point most are making here. Shoot for fun and dont turn in a score. Many ways to shoot with friends.
DB


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## Boston Bowman

check out the IBO results page... his score has been zeroed out


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## drtnshtr

Boston Bowman said:


> check out the IBO results page... his score has been zeroed out


Tony said the IBO took his score off because they werent sure if the K50 class he shot last year was considered a Pro class or not. He said they determined it wasnt and they were supposed to put his score back up but he asked them to leave it a zero.


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## bhtr3d

His score wasn't the only one moved down to a "0" that shot in the HC class.


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## cenochs

bhtr3d said:


> His score wasn't the only one moved down to a "0" that shot in the HC class.


I also noticed that! Not going to say anymore


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## Bowtech n ROSS

Travis lunsford is a 0 now also. They let him shoot the southern with no problem. That's weird.


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## asa_low12

southpaw3d said:


> First of all, to all you guys that are complaining about former Pros and semi pros dropping back to shoot, "lower classes," as someone put it. When you start paying the entry fees for these guys, and paying all the other expenses, then maybe these guys would still be competing in the pro divisions. Or maybe, these guys don't have the time to put into it, like they once did, but still want to shoot, and have fun with their friends. Or maybe some of the guys are complaining because they placed 65th instead of 64th because a pro dropped back. Look, everyone that goes to these shoots obviously loves the sport of archery, so why are we critisizing anyone because of what class they shoot, if Levi Morgan drops back to my class and beats me, oh well, I'll just have to try harder next time, but the reality is, I'm not in this for the money, I love to shoot and have a good time with my friends, that 's why I shoot in the MBO.


If Levi quit for 20 years he probably wouldn't come back to bow novice or open c. I don't know about IBO's though but if it truly is an entry level class then it shouldn't matter if you had only quit for a few years and don't have much time to practice. The way I look at it though, bring it on. That just means you have a chance of beating a pro without paying pro entry fees. You may get your butt kicked but at least you could compare yourself.


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## hdracer

Just a question for everyone. If HC is a "beginner's" class as everyone states, why is anyone allowed to shot it after their first year? How long are you a beginner? Rookies only have one rookie season not 3, 5 or 7. If HC is really a begiiner's only class, anyone shooting it would be moved out/up after their first season. Hmmm...


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## SonnyThomas

hdracer said:


> Just a question for everyone. If HC is a "beginner's" class as everyone states, why is anyone allowed to shot it after their first year? How long are you a beginner? Rookies only have one rookie season not 3, 5 or 7. If HC is really a begiiner's only class, anyone shooting it would be moved out/up after their first season. Hmmm...


I pretty much posed the same thing and I didn't get a answer, either here or the other related thread.


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## asa_low12

hdracer said:


> Just a question for everyone. If HC is a "beginner's" class as everyone states, why is anyone allowed to shot it after their first year? How long are you a beginner? Rookies only have one rookie season not 3, 5 or 7. If HC is really a begiiner's only class, anyone shooting it would be moved out/up after their first season. Hmmm...


I'm not sure either. That's why I stated "if it *truly* is an entry level class..." Still it seems that it is one of the "lower" (i'm not implying bad shooters or anything like that at all) classes. It also seems that IBO rules definetly leave the door open for sandbagging.


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## perdieu2011

so are u guys saying that anyone that posts a good score in hunter class is sandbagging??


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## asa_low12

perdieu2011 said:


> so are u guys saying that anyone that posts a good score in hunter class is sandbagging??



Nope. And I don't care. Only you know if you are sandbagging.


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## Garceau

Just remember- someone is always going to have the best score.

Even if you had a class for people that showed up that day, was handed a bow, had to shoot it opposite of their dominant eye, had to have plungers on the end of the arrows, had to walk backwards to the target and had to shoot sitting down.

Someone is going to win - which means others are going to lose, which entails some of those others will cry foul and complain.


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## shooter74

you guys just kill me stop thinking about someone else and just shoot your own GAME you big cry babys....................................


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## carlosii

Rush said:


> Good times to be had at Triplett's Camp! Always is!


will you be posting directions? looks like Nelsonville might be the only one i'll make, and i don't want to miss out on the hot dogs...:set1_pot:


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## alfabuck

Garceau said:


> Just remember- someone is always going to have the best score.
> 
> Even if you had a class for people that showed up that day, was handed a bow, had to shoot it opposite of their dominant eye, had to have plungers on the end of the arrows, had to walk backwards to the target and had to shoot sitting down.
> 
> Someone is going to win - which means others are going to lose, which entails some of those others will cry foul and complain.


Hey i shoot opposite of my dominant eye..........seriously i do.lol


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## TRIPLETT

carlosii said:


> will you be posting directions? looks like Nelsonville might be the only one i'll make, and i don't want to miss out on the hot dogs...:set1_pot:


 It's the red & white R-Pod camper. Down in the field on the left towards the end. Sat: at 6:00.


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## Stillfingers

We'll try to be there Lonnie!


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## Supershark

Ms.Sapphire said:


> :sad:
> 
> sad that it has come to this...



It's not sad, well just go to the ASA's instead of the IBO's, we will see him there.


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## Supershark

Shoot12 said:


> First of all i'm not ashamed at all! i have nothing to be ashamed of. i shot the hc because i wanted to. i didn't stay to collect anything. in fact i had no concern at all if i had won or not thats not why i went. as far as beating up on beginners to have fun that is far from the truth. I never once thought of the hc as a beginner class and i bet most persons in that class aren't.


Shoot MBR in Nelsonville. 





They'll complain about that too. But at this point it would be funny.


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