# IBO known yardage!



## S Triplet (Jan 22, 2010)

I have seen some very good shooters that just lack the ability of being able to judge yardage well.. I believe if IBO would add some known yardage classes, it would incourage more shooters. 
Unlike the old days, today's techknowledgy of range finders, people don't have to rely on their yardage judging skills in hunting situations and there for, don't.
I would like to see some known classes in IBO, maybe even just one to see how it turns out...
What do you all think?


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## tecshooter (Oct 29, 2003)

So far, when it has been brought up, the IBO didn't want to do it because they were a "bowhunters" organization, not a "target shooters" organization. They felt the known classes were geared to target shooters, regardless of the percentage of hunters that use rangefinders in the woods today. I feel they're missing out on a large segment of shooters by not at least offering it...


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

Sad considering most bow hunters, and hunters in general, utilize a range finder. You can lead a horse to water...


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## hammer head (Nov 23, 2003)

Not everyone can go out every day/night to practice judge yardage . I would say most hunters use some kind of range finder . I also think that the ibo is missing the boat on this one.i my self would shoot in the known yardage class


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

I have email the new president of IBO about starting a known distance class several times and he could careless on reason why it would work. He has the mentality that it is a hunting org and that known distance takes away from the sport. The day that he goes out on a course and shoots 11's on each and every target I will agree with him . It so sad that any organization with push shooters away cause of their own narrow minds.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

If their reason for not having known yardage is that "they are a hunting organization and not a target organization", how do they explain all the open classes??? I don't think 30" long stabilizers, target sights, scopes with 4x lenses, etc etc are used for hunting. Seems a little hypocritical to me. I am not anti-IBO like some on here, in fact I really enjoy the IBO World Championships. But I do not like the Triple Crown shoots and their "shoot with you buddies" format. Just my opinions, which ain't worth much.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

darton3d said:


> If their reason for not having known yardage is that "they are a hunting organization and not a target organization", how do they explain all the open classes??? I don't think 30" long stabilizers, target sights, scopes with 4x lenses, etc etc are used for hunting. Seems a little hypocritical to me. I am not anti-IBO like some on here, in fact I really enjoy the IBO World Championships. But I do not like the Triple Crown shoots and their "shoot with you buddies" format. Just my opinions, which ain't worth much.



well said.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

The IBO is very forward thinking and always looking to grow interest in archery. Unlike it's competition the IBO is innovative and works hard to make it's game family friendly for it's membership. Comparing what the IBO and the ASA has done in the last 5 years to grow their game and it's OBVIOUS the IBO is the 3D organization that all archery organizations envy. We all know Known distance 3D does not have and will never have audience. If the IBO were to create a couple of Known distance classes you can bet it would not garner much interest or draw new members. 3D is not "target" archery. IBO 3D is a format for hunters to prepare for hunting. If you look at the targets it's obvious to see the scoring rings are realistic. For example, bowhunters would much rather shoot a deer in the back leg (5 points) than to completely miss (0 points).

The IBO should follow the NFAA's example and do nothing to grow their audience...........die before change!!!!!


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## keithw20 (Oct 1, 2012)

People are lazier today way less talented you shouldn't depend on a range finder put a little effort forth and practice educate yourself stop looking for easy roads..


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## woodyicon (Apr 13, 2003)

If you practice judging yardage enough, you wont need a rangefinder. How did we do it before rangefinders?


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

The last two comments is why the IBO'S numbers are going down and the ASA's numbers are going up
If there is enough interest for a known yardage class then let there be one what does it hurt
What was the total number for Erie


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> The IBO is very forward thinking and always looking to grow interest in archery. Unlike it's competition the IBO is innovative and works hard to make it's game family friendly for it's membership. Comparing what the IBO and the ASA has done in the last 5 years to grow their game and it's OBVIOUS the IBO is the 3D organization that all archery organizations envy. We all know Known distance 3D does not have and will never have audience. If the IBO were to create a couple of Known distance classes you can bet it would not garner much interest or draw new members. 3D is not "target" archery. IBO 3D is a format for hunters to prepare for hunting. If you look at the targets it's obvious to see the scoring rings are realistic. For example, bowhunters would much rather shoot a deer in the back leg (5 points) than to completely miss (0 points).
> 
> The IBO should follow the NFAA's example and do nothing to grow their audience...........die before change!!!!!



Geez! I thought you were serious for a minute...well played!


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## bowhunter247365 (Apr 21, 2010)

I was told 1036.


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## eclark53520 (Sep 11, 2012)

I would have no problem with them allowing a 'range finder' or 'known yardage' class. 

I wouldn't shoot in it as I find the most fun part of 3D shooting is just that, guessing the range of the target. It's a game, not hunting. While hunting, I carry and utilize a range finder. 3D is a fun game that challenges you to judge distance.

I shot a 0 saturday morning on a Moose that was 58 yards in 'hunter' class...never shot a rinehart moose before and didn't realize just how massive they are. Under judged the yardage twice. Laughed at myself both times...I had a great time.


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## DCPA (Jan 10, 2012)

keithw20 said:


> People are lazier today way less talented you shouldn't depend on a range finder put a little effort forth and practice educate yourself stop looking for easy roads..


Then they should put a speed restriction on the hunter class. With the speed of some bows these days your not judging at all. Just aiming high or low. JMO


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## josechno (Sep 20, 2007)

Did they complain about those cheating lazy archers that ha wheels on their bows and low holding weight and that group that uses some mechanical device to release the bowstring the exact same way everytime. times have changed and if they don't they will be left behind. I laugh every time I hear it's hunting practice while shootin 5 gpp fat boys ,x-cutters or some other TARGET arrow


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

DCPA said:


> Then they should put a speed restriction on the hunter class. With the speed of some bows these days your not judging at all. Just aiming high or low. JMO


No kidding....... Shooting 320 fps in a 35 yard class with the bonus ring located in the center of 10 ring isn't exactly forcing hunters to improve their ability to judge yardage! At that speed having more than two pins can be detrimental!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bowhunter247365 said:


> I was told 1036.


WOW! A little over half the attendance of the London, Ky ASA shoot! 1036 is about 20% less than the attendance of the first ASA shoot of the year which is held in FEBRUARY way down in Florida! 
If the IBO keeps innovating and working to grow their game they should catch up to the ASA in about _never_...........but as long as they don't have any competition in the northeast they should be able to maintain their status. If the ASA chooses to have an ASA "North" circuit the IBO will go the way of field archery.


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## tkasten (Jul 16, 2006)

London KY had 249 Known dist. shooters out of 1670+. I'm sure IBO would love to have an extra 249 shooters. They should add a Known dist. class or two. JMO.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tkasten said:


> London KY had 249 Known dist. shooters out of 1670+. I'm sure IBO would love to have an extra 249 shooters. They should add a Known dist. class or two. JMO.


249 is not even 25% of 1036. I doubt anyone would want a measly 20%+ increase plus family. Do you really think the vendors at IBO want to have to deal with 20%+ increase in customers!?! That's crazy talk...... Why in the world would anyone want to see an archery organization increase in size? Do you realize that along with the increase in registration and membership fees comes more people whining about the tournament structure? The newbies would probably start asking for stuff like the ASA's Pro/Am Team shoot and busting up buddy self-help groups! Non-sense NO ONE would stand for participating in a national tournament where they can't shoot with their buddies out of sight of any kind of tournament official! If they busted up the self-help group shooting format people would quit! Who the heck would enjoy meeting new folks and actually shooting face-to-face with their competition? No one that's who because it's too stressful........ If any organization tried that they'd fold over night.


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## josechno (Sep 20, 2007)

I CHOOSE to drive up to 12 hrs to shoot Asa and REFUSE to drive 4 hrs to IBO. How about shooting with your peers AT THE SAME TIME shotgun starts and not to mention having a class for my wife to start shooting in 30 yrds all known. She refuses to shoot unknown yardage she isn't a hunter she just enjoys shooting


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## DCPA (Jan 10, 2012)

Kstigall said:


> No kidding....... Shooting 320 fps in a 35 yard class with the bonus ring located in the center of 10 ring isn't exactly forcing hunters to improve their ability to judge yardage! At that speed having more than two pins can be detrimental!


At least someone agrees with me.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

josechno said:


> I CHOOSE to drive up to 12 hrs to shoot Asa and REFUSE to drive 4 hrs to IBO. How about shooting with your peers AT THE SAME TIME shotgun starts and not to mention having a class for my wife to start shooting in 30 yrds all known and not 35 yrds and hope u don't lose all your arrows. The only INO EVENT I WILL ATTEND IS THE SPRING NATIONALS BECAUSE Larry gets it by far the best shot the IBO has


I feel the same and I'm only 45 minutes from the erie shoot and from the worlds. When my membership renewal came in the mail this year I shredded it


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

look at the main equipment classifications MBO MBR etc, and tell me Bowhunting organisation with a straight face


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

the IBO has become a joke... Bow Junky is even covering it.... Spring nationals had 800 shooters this year and lots of the top pros didn't even show.... There were 2 or 3 vendors and thats it.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> 249 is not even 25% of 1036. I doubt anyone would want a measly 20%+ increase plus family. Do you really think the vendors at IBO want to have to deal with 20%+ increase in customers!?! That's crazy talk...... Why in the world would anyone want to see an archery organization increase in size? Do you realize that along with the increase in registration and membership fees comes more people whining about the tournament structure? The newbies would probably start asking for stuff like the ASA's Pro/Am Team shoot and busting up buddy self-help groups! Non-sense NO ONE would stand for participating in a national tournament where they can't shoot with their buddies out of sight of any kind of tournament official! If they busted up the self-help group shooting format people would quit! Who the heck would enjoy meeting new folks and actually shooting face-to-face with their competition? No one that's who because it's too stressful........ If any organization tried that they'd fold over night.


LoL


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## zyxw (Feb 19, 2007)

DCPA said:


> Then they should put a speed restriction on the hunter class. With the speed of some bows these days your not judging at all. Just aiming high or low. JMO


Personally I've always though the speed limit should be 250 for all classes. Put everyons on a more level playing field as any one can achieve that speed easily without having to have a longer draw length or higher poundage. It shows who can judge and who can't. I'm old school and feel that all 3d should be unknown. that's how we began and how it should stay. Competitive 3d is not hunting. It is good practice for hunters but it's a competition. Shooting a target is nothing like a live animal. I've known some really good 3d shooters who could shoot worth a damn on live game


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

keithw20 said:


> People are lazier today way less talented you shouldn't depend on a range finder put a little effort forth and practice educate yourself stop looking for easy roads..


Sooo.. since I shoot a known yardage class...

Your telling me im
- lazy
-not talented
-dont practice enough
-uneducated


Correct?


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Sooo.. since I shoot a known yardage class...
> 
> Your telling me im
> - lazy
> ...



Lol that's what I got from that also


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## eclark53520 (Sep 11, 2012)

zyxw said:


> Personally I've always though the speed limit should be 250 for all classes. Put everyons on a more level playing field as any one can achieve that speed easily without having to have a longer draw length or higher poundage. It shows who can judge and who can't. I'm old school and feel that all 3d should be unknown. that's how we began and how it should stay. Competitive 3d is not hunting. It is good practice for hunters but it's a competition. Shooting a target is nothing like a live animal. I've known some really good 3d shooters who could shoot worth a damn on live game


Yeah 250fps...that'll really draw the crowds in...

Just require everyone to shoot hand made longbows with all natural handmade strings and arrows. That'll separate the men from the boys. See how long your organization lasts with that mentality.

If an organization doesn't change and adapt, it dies. Quickly. The more people you involve, the more likely you are to survive. Can't just cater to one type of shooter, one needs to attempt to encompass as many shooters as possible.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

wpk said:


> Lol that's what I got from that also


If someone said that to me face to face....id be real tempted to :set1_punch:


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

Without getting into all the problems with the IBO I will say that if they had a known class I would be shooting them. I just don't have the free time any more to go out and judge like I used to.


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Yea, another IBO bashing thread with the same idiots as always posting multiple times to bash the organization.


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## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

I don't enjoy shooting known distance..I do that in my yard. It's the challenge of judgeing yardage that I enjoy. JMO


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## S Triplet (Jan 22, 2010)

Supermag1 said:


> Yea, another IBO bashing thread with the same idiots as always posting multiple times to bash the organization.


I started this thread by no means of bashing IBO, I simply started it to get people's opinions. I'm not asking IBO to change anything, I'm just asking them to add a class for people that would rather shoot known yardage. They already have different classes for different shooting equipment and styles. I truly believe it would do nothing but help their origination .... 

I would like to add, I proudly use the techknowledgy of today's range finders while hunting. Furthermore, I feel we owe it to the animals we hunt, to put as good of a shot on them as humanly possible. And that will require most to use a range finder.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

keithw20 said:


> People are lazier today way less talented you shouldn't depend on a range finder put a little effort forth and practice educate yourself stop looking for easy roads..


Who are you to judge people ? How does shooing known distance make someone lazy?
I would shoot against you on any known distance course and bet you would not shoot a perfect score
More like people are ignorant anymore for makin statements cause of people don't like what you do


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

S Triplet said:


> I started this thread by no means of bashing IBO, I simply started it to get people's opinions. I'm not asking IBO to change anything, I'm just asking them to add a class for people that would rather shoot known yardage. They already have different classes for different shooting equipment and styles. I truly believe it would do nothing but help their origination ....
> 
> I would like to add, I proudly use the techknowledgy of today's range finders while hunting. Furthermore, I feel we owe it to the animals we hunt, to put as good of a shot on them as humanly possible. And that will require most to use a range finder.


My comment wasn't directed toward you, my apologizes if you thought it was. If you look at any IBO thread, you'll see the same usernames pop up to bash as soon as they think there'll be an opening to do so.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Supermag1 said:


> My comment wasn't directed toward you, my apologizes if you thought it was. If you look at any IBO thread, you'll see the same usernames pop up to bash as soon as they think there'll be an opening to do
> Have you been to a IBO shoots not local or state but the national ones .


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## venisonjunky (Jun 8, 2013)

Not interested in known yardage! If you cant judge yardage practice more develop a skill !


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## ACE430 (May 19, 2006)

Most hunters I know use a range finder and a moveable sight. Here in Maine we had a moveable sight class with the 35 yard max and it worked just fine. I do not believe we have that class any longer. More shooters shot that class than the fixed pin class. I think all the fighting in that class put an end to the moveable hunter class.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

tkasten said:


> London KY had 249 Known dist. shooters out of 1670+. I'm sure IBO would love to have an extra 249 shooters. They should add a Known dist. class or two. JMO.



Your numbers are off quite a bit for Kentucky. 

Bow Novice = 134
Womens Hunter = 99

That's 233 with just two classes.

Open C = 165
Known 45 = 127
Known 50 = 49
W K40 = 62
W K45 = 11

Total adult know distance shooters @ ASA KY = 647, not 249 like you stated.

That's not counting the kids classes. 

There were 172 known distance women shooters....how many women shooters does IBO usually bring in all together? 

Kids classes = 104 in just 3 classes.

So total is 751 for the ASA Kentucky shoot in all known yardage classes. These are taken straight from the ASA website. 

That's not counting the half known and half unknown classes


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## tkasten (Jul 16, 2006)

Crow Terminator said:


> Your numbers are off quite a bit for Kentucky.
> 
> I did not realize that all those other classes were also known dist. I stand corrected.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I don't like shooting known distance. Part of the fun is guessing the yardage.

But, I don't mind if other people shoot it. Have something for everyone and grow the sport. JMO.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I think the point is that ibo is shrinking in numbers. I think they need to consider other options to keep it from continuing to loose numbers. I myself pride myself on judging well. But there are alot of shooters that don't have the time to practice judging and shoot. For these shooters it might be great and it would stop the dropping numbers I believe.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

But then, I'm sure my buddy shooting known is going to give me the number to shoot unknown, since he has a rangefinder on the course, and my buddy group is not busted up. lain:


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## hoyt316 (Mar 7, 2006)

I know this about known yardage like said would add a couple hundred. But I looked and where they have busted there open class to a-b-c london had 400 in those classes I know some of it is known but thats a huge number of shooters.If you add k45 k50 and wm40 and 45 that would make up 550 of the shooters in london.They had 159 in open at the last I.B.O. shoot I know they more then likely had about the same if not a few more pin shooters then london. But if I was the I.B.O. I would look at those shooter who have the open class stuff that don't want to change there equipment or put pins on to go play there game. But this is the I.B.O. if its all about hunting they should just drop the pro class and open class all together because you don't see people hunting with what there shooting.Without some changes I don't see how they will even run second in a two man race.


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## WICKEDADDICTION (Jul 1, 2013)

Ibo scoring makes you be more accurate with the bonus ring in the center, versus Asa rewarding you for dropping out with the 12 being low. I understand Asa speed limits in unknown distance classes but what since does it make to have speed limits on bows in known distance classes. You sighted the bow in with your rangefinder and your gonna use your range finder at the shoot, its all on you at that point don't make a s$$$ how fast your bow is. Far as my scoring comment you perfect shooters are gonna claim im always shooting at the 12 but that's bs not always.


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## hoyt316 (Mar 7, 2006)

Your right those guy shooting the A.S.A. 20 to 30 up cant hit the center of I.B.O. target. There all ways low right or left lol.


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## WICKEDADDICTION (Jul 1, 2013)

S Triplet said:


> I started this thread by no means of bashing IBO, I simply started it to get people's opinions. I'm not asking IBO to change anything, I'm just asking them to add a class for people that would rather shoot known yardage. They already have different classes for different shooting equipment and styles. I truly believe it would do nothing but help their origination ....
> 
> I would like to add, I proudly use the techknowledgy of today's range finders while hunting. Furthermore, I feel we owe it to the animals we hunt, to put as good of a shot on them as humanly possible. And that will require most to use a range finder.


Unless they are truly good 3d shooters that yardage, that's the point of 3d shooting well for most anyway. International BOWHUNTING organization they don't turn shooters away because they went and bought a Hunting bow and shoots to fast. 9 out 10 hunting setups you run across these days will not be allowed to shoot in Asa hunter class what since does that make. So in that retrospect Asa doesn't catter to all etheir.


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## WICKEDADDICTION (Jul 1, 2013)

hoyt316 said:


> Your right those guy shooting the A.S.A. 20 to 30 up cant hit the center of I.B.O. target. There all ways low right or left lol.


All I'm saying is with Asa if walk up to the stake and you can't quite get your head around the yardage so you center up in the ten ring height wise and hold over the twelve if you are a little light on your yardage guess what happens your are rewarded with a 12 if the same happens in ibo no 11 just a 10.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kent......lmao......your such a baller.....too funny


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

WICKEDADDICTION said:


> Ibo scoring makes you be more accurate with the bonus ring in the center, versus Asa rewarding you for dropping out with the 12 being low. I understand Asa speed limits in unknown distance classes but what since does it make to have speed limits on bows in known distance classes. You sighted the bow in with your rangefinder and your gonna use your range finder at the shoot, its all on you at that point don't make a s$$$ how fast your bow is. Far as my scoring comment you perfect shooters are gonna claim im always shooting at the 12 but that's bs not always.


That is truly a statement due to a lack of knowledge! I can guarantee that the folks that are at the top of their ASA class, any class, aren't winning because they are "lucky" and fall into 12's! Even in Hunter class I shot at many 12's. If you have the skill to hit 12's you better be shooting at them if you have any aspirations of finishing near the top. Sure you can just try to put all your arrows in the 10 ring AND hope you get lucky and hit a higher number of 12's. But if that's your best chance to score fairly high you will very rarely finish at the top of any class.

With IBO scoring you shoot center 10 but that will not get it done with ASA scoring. I was shooting Hunter class at an ASA shoot in London, Ky some years ago. It was there after hitting within .25" above the 12 ring on 5 consecutive targets when I realized I HAD to hold harder on the 12 or I was giving up points. 

You are right, the better ASA archers aren't _always_ shooting at the 12 ring but they do aim closer to the 12 than the center of the 10 on many targets and many times they are holding dead on the 12. I KNOW that if I don't aim at a LOT of 12's my scores will be lower than what they are........ This past weekend the 14 ring counted on the last 5 targets. I was 4 for 5 on 14's with one 8. I was shooting K50. I know the semi-Pro I shot with shoots right at or real close to every 12. I know the Open A guy in our group is doing the same with the exception of on a few targets he's aiming at the edge of the 12.

Your statement makes it seem as though you haven't shot much ASA OR haven't shot with experienced ASA competitors. Middle of the pack ASA archers know the better archers shoot at many 12's. If all you are trying to do is to shoot even or a couple of points up then aiming center 12 is a good approach.




bhtr3d said:


> Kent......lmao......your such a baller.....too funny


:wink: What do you mean?!?!?!


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

while i dont disagree with a great many points listed above, i have to say that IBO is simply put, a different game than ASA, i would shoot known if it was an option. but it is NOT, it is IBO not ASA. why doesnt ASA have a 18m indoor spot shoot????? because they are NOT NFAA. why doesnt IBO adopt the scoring rings of ASA? because they are IBO. why doesnt ASA elimiate the speed limit? because they are not IBO.


i do TOTALLY agree that open rigs are NOT hunting rigs and that arguement holds little water, it doesnt have to. the IBO is the IBO, it has a rule book, you can play if you want.....

if we make all the organisation offer all the options of the other....why bother having multiple leagues.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

silhouette13 said:


> while i dont disagree with a great many points listed above, i have to say that IBO is simply put, a different game than ASA, i would shoot known if it was an option. but it is NOT, it is IBO not ASA. why doesnt ASA have a 18m indoor spot shoot????? because they are NOT NFAA. why doesnt IBO adopt the scoring rings of ASA? because they are IBO. why doesnt ASA elimiate the speed limit? because they are not IBO.
> 
> 
> i do TOTALLY agree that open rigs are NOT hunting rigs and that arguement holds little water, it doesnt have to. the IBO is the IBO, it has a rule book, you can play if you want.....
> ...



Exactly! As I noted in my last sentence in this post!
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2265688&p=1070382574#post1070382574


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## Kighty7 (Feb 7, 2004)

I would love to see a single adjustable pin Hunter Class with a max of 40 yards. Stabilizer no longer than 12 inches and a single attachment point with stabs in the back no longer than 10 inches. Sight must be adjusted from behind the riser, like the HHA single pin sliders. I think that would be a really cool class for people to shoot.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

One thing is for sure...if they did go with a known yardage class, those 11 rings would get awfully crowded if you ended up in a group with decent shooters. The way it is in the known yardage ASA classes, at least we can call for the upper 12 when the lower gets blocked up. There's not another ring to go to in IBO. I guess you'd have to go for a robin hood or play a safe 10 shot.

Actually...there's still a great deal of shooters at the ASA shoots that the known yardage doesn't appeal to them. It's not for everybody. But what IBO fails to recognize is that they are missing out on a potential for several hundred more archers by not offering known distance to their organization. Womens Hunter and Womens K40 are getting to be big classes. Look at those vs their unknown yardage counterparts. Once again, using the most recent Kentucky ASA shoot numbers.

Womens Open B = 16 shooters
Womens Open A = 13
Womens Open Pro = 24
Senior Women = 14

67 total. 

Womens K40 had almost had that many by itself, with 62 in it. And as stated in my previous post...Womens Hunter is the most popular and it had 99 in it. 

Growing the sport is going to involve not only getting male kids involved...but getting moms, girl friends, sisters, etc involved too. ASA is the only platform in 3D archery that is recognizing that, and they are seeing fruits of that in numbers. Some people just wanna come to the shoots, and have fun shooting bows...not having to worry about missing the target or not being competitive due to not having super yardage judging skills. I get to spend a little bit of time on the Womens Hunter course when my wife is shooting and I think every group she has shot in, has had at least one woman/girl that it was their first yr shooting a bow or first ASA.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

WICKEDADDICTION said:


> Ibo scoring makes you be more accurate with the bonus ring in the center, versus Asa rewarding you for dropping out with the 12 being low. I understand Asa speed limits in unknown distance classes but what since does it make to have speed limits on bows in known distance classes. You sighted the bow in with your rangefinder and your gonna use your range finder at the shoot, its all on you at that point don't make a s$$$ how fast your bow is. Far as my scoring comment you perfect shooters are gonna claim im always shooting at the 12 but that's bs not always.



you sir have never shot at the lower 12 then because anybody can aim in the center and hit center
But when there's a chance you could shoot a 8 going after the little bonus rings that adds a little bit of pressure


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

WICKEDADDICTION said:


> Ibo scoring makes you be more accurate with the bonus ring in the center, versus Asa rewarding you for dropping out with the 12 being low. I understand Asa speed limits in unknown distance classes but what since does it make to have speed limits on bows in known distance classes. You sighted the bow in with your rangefinder and your gonna use your range finder at the shoot, its all on you at that point don't make a s$$$ how fast your bow is. Far as my scoring comment you perfect shooters are gonna claim im always shooting at the 12 but that's bs not always.


LMAO

Ibo center 11 scoring is MUCHHH easier then an ASA 12... drop outta the 12- 1/4" your an 8......do that on IBO scoring your still a 10


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## WICKEDADDICTION (Jul 1, 2013)

wpk said:


> you sir have never shot at the lower 12 then because anybody can aim in the center and hit center
> But when there's a chance you could shoot a 8 going after the little bonus rings that adds a little bit of pressure


Yeah that makes sense so your are saying anybody can go win an ibo shoot


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## WICKEDADDICTION (Jul 1, 2013)

Maybe you all should read my second to last post to understand what I was saying


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## WICKEDADDICTION (Jul 1, 2013)

WICKEDADDICTION said:


> All I'm saying is with Asa if walk up to the stake and you can't quite get your head around the yardage so you center up in the ten ring height wise and hold over the twelve if you are a little light on your yardage guess what happens your are rewarded with a 12 if the same happens in ibo no 11 just a 10.


This is what I was trying to say that is all


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

WICKEDADDICTION said:


> Yeah that makes sense so your are saying anybody can go win an ibo shoot


Lol that's funny you say that because I have won a few in the IBO but have never won a ASA shoot 
Good enough to get good money back but never won


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

WICKEDADDICTION said:


> This is what I was trying to say that is all


Its nice to think that.....but that isn't the mindset you need


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

The IBO attendance numbers can never be compared to ASA because the ASA has structure and requires participants to shoot sat and sun. Now on the other hand the IBO is we'll show up when you want and shoot as many as you want with no structure. You apply actual shoot days and times for IBO classes and you would be looking at 500-700 participants......


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## Lefty-Canuck (Feb 13, 2011)

In Canada they introduced a "range finder" class....people thought a bunch of folks would participate in it, well they didn't and next year it is being removed....also I hear the "hunter class" is being removed due to lack of participation. Seems like MBO and MBR are the classes most are joining....wonder if someday they will become a single class? Too bad the "hunter" class is being removed here as I think it is a different enough class from MBO and MBR to warrant keeping it.

LC


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## dottrz (Jul 27, 2013)

Kighty7 said:


> I would love to see a single adjustable pin Hunter Class with a max of 40 yards. Stabilizer no longer than 12 inches and a single attachment point with stabs in the back no longer than 10 inches. Sight must be adjusted from behind the riser, like the HHA single pin sliders. I think that would be a really cool class for people to shoot.


I agree 100% with you on this, I think the level of sophistication on the HHA's and similar are far enough behind the sights like Cartels, Sure Locs, etc., that this would be warranted. The down side is, you'd have to make classes all the way down the line for it- women's, kids, seniors. Does IBO want to make all those extra classes? Just kind of a rhetorical question there.

But again, I do see a lot of merit in your proposal, though I think the stabs should be consistent with other HC stipulations.


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

Lefty-Canuck said:


> In Canada they introduced a "range finder" class....people thought a bunch of folks would participate in it, well they didn't and next year it is being removed....also I hear the "hunter class" is being removed due to lack of participation. Seems like MBO and MBR are the classes most are joining....wonder if someday they will become a single class? Too bad the "hunter" class is being removed here as I think it is a different enough class from MBO and MBR to warrant keeping it.
> 
> LC


Ontario voted in a rangefinder class and did quite well its first year in spite of all the negativity against it, hunter class here is non existent really not many shoot it


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

Why would I go to the woods and try to guess how far away the animal is when I can have a better chance of an ethical and humane kill (or "harvest" if kill offends you) utilizing a rangefinder? This is in no way a knock on IBO, their rules are their rules as an organization and at the end of the day if we don't agree with the rules we don't need to participate.

Dunno, seems like common sense to me. lol


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## KevinNY (Dec 28, 2010)

These organizations are businesses after all. If you try to be all things to all people in business, you'll be out of it.


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## rhyno_071 (Feb 22, 2009)

silhouette13 said:


> while i dont disagree with a great many points listed above, i have to say that IBO is simply put, a different game than ASA, i would shoot known if it was an option. but it is NOT, it is IBO not ASA. why doesnt ASA have a 18m indoor spot shoot????? because they are NOT NFAA. why doesnt IBO adopt the scoring rings of ASA? because they are IBO. why doesnt ASA elimiate the speed limit? because they are not IBO.
> 
> 
> i do TOTALLY agree that open rigs are NOT hunting rigs and that arguement holds little water, it doesnt have to. the IBO is the IBO, it has a rule book, you can play if you want.....
> ...


I have to agree. If you don't like the IBO then don't shoot IBO events.... It's real simple and no drama needed.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

rhyno_071 said:


> I have to agree. If you don't like the IBO then don't shoot IBO events.... It's real simple and no drama needed.


and obviously with the numbers they're pulling that's exactly what people are doing not going


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Kighty7 said:


> I would love to see a single adjustable pin Hunter Class with a max of 40 yards. Stabilizer no longer than 12 inches and a single attachment point with stabs in the back no longer than 10 inches. Sight must be adjusted from behind the riser, like the HHA single pin sliders. I think that would be a really cool class for people to shoot.





dottrz said:


> I agree 100% with you on this, I think the level of sophistication on the HHA's and similar are far enough behind the sights like Cartels, Sure Locs, etc., that this would be warranted. The down side is, you'd have to make classes all the way down the line for it- women's, kids, seniors. Does IBO want to make all those extra classes? Just kind of a rhetorical question there.
> 
> But again, I do see a lot of merit in your proposal, though I think the stabs should be consistent with other HC stipulations.


Here semi locally we have a series called the MAC (midwest archery championship) and they run IBO rules word for word...but as you two have mentioned....the MAC did just that and created a ' bow hunter moveable' class...same rules and yardage as bowhunter. But with the use of an HHA type sights...no magnification etc.

And it is a very popular class. Im pretty sure they actually made 2 classes bow hunter moveable and bow hunter moveable intermediate (just longer yardage)


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

rhyno_071 said:


> I have to agree. If you don't like the IBO then don't shoot IBO events.... It's real simple and no drama needed.


*Exactly!*

If the leadership of the IBO is happy with the current trend in tournament participation that's all that matters. If you live in the northeast or north then you can either shoot IBO or nothing. It's your choice. Sure some folks might shoot an occasional ASA tournament but so what?! If an IBO member does not like how the IBO management is managing THEIR business then they can go pound sand.

Personally, I have chosen to shoot multiple ASA tournaments as well as the state ASA shoots rather than IBO. I like to shoot IBO tournaments but I can't do every thing I like so I choose to support, in my opinion, the better organization and tournament format. To each their own..........


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## rhyno_071 (Feb 22, 2009)

Kstigall said:


> *Exactly!*
> 
> If the leadership of the IBO is happy with the current trend in tournament participation that's all that matters. If you live in the northeast or north then you can either shoot IBO or nothing. It's your choice. Sure some folks might shoot an occasional ASA tournament but so what?! If an IBO member does not like how the IBO management is managing THEIR business then they can go pound sand.
> 
> Personally, I have chosen to shoot multiple ASA tournaments as well as the state ASA shoots rather than IBO. I like to shoot IBO tournaments but I can't do every thing I like so I choose to support, in my opinion, the better organization and tournament format. To each their own..........


Well said!


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## tkasten (Jul 16, 2006)

wpk said:


> and obviously with the numbers they're pulling that's exactly what people are doing not going


IBO #'s are pretty steady. Numbers of shooters of the 1st and 2nd legs of the National Triple Crown in 2013 were 1220 & 1137. In 2014 they were 1173 & 1162. That's only a 22 difference.

A few known distance classes would add IMO.

I like aspects of both formats and feel lucky that we have them both. With IBO I enjoy walking through the woods to each target. With ASA I enjoy the Team & Limbsaver Shoots.

I do wish ASA would run a Pro/Am in our neck of the woods.

JMO.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tkasten said:


> IBO #'s are pretty steady. Numbers of shooters of the 1st and 2nd legs of the National Triple Crown in 2013 were 1220 & 1137. In 2014 they were 1173 & *1162*. That's only a 22 difference.
> 
> A few known distance classes would add IMO.
> 
> ...


2014 2nd Leg had a total of 1,063 shooters.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> *Exactly!*
> 
> If the leadership of the IBO is happy with the current trend in tournament participation that's all that matters. If you live in the northeast or north then you can either shoot IBO or nothing. It's your choice. Sure some folks might shoot an occasional ASA tournament but so what?! If an IBO member does not like how the IBO management is managing THEIR business then they can go pound sand.
> 
> Personally, I have chosen to shoot multiple ASA tournaments as well as the state ASA shoots rather than IBO. I like to shoot IBO tournaments but I can't do every thing I like so I choose to support, in my opinion, the better organization and tournament format. To each their own..........





rhyno_071 said:


> Well said!


:embara: I hope you picked up on the sarcasm in my post!


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## milkman38 (Mar 5, 2007)

erie has to battle fathers day weekend too. most guys i know shoot them all on fri and early sat to get home


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I suspect the lack of known distance classes is IBO's main problem...although it might be a part of it.


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## Zixer (Dec 1, 2013)

I would like to see an organization that allows me to use my hunting set up as it was intended. I use a range finder...but practice range estimation when I can. I want to be able to adjust my sight to that range, and then be able to shoot with my release. I don't want to have any ridiculous speed limitations, a deer doesn't care how fast my bow is. I shoot a stabilization system on my bow and the deer don't care how long the stabilizer is.

I do not shoot 3D competitions as I don't have bows set up for target, I have them set up to hunt, and my bow and arrow combination isn't allowed due to speed. And there are no shoots locally. If I am going to drive, its going to be to shoot a class that I can use my setup as intended.

If you hunt with it, you should be able to compete with it.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Zixer said:


> I would like to see an organization that allows me to use my hunting set up as it was intended. I use a range finder...but practice range estimation when I can. I want to be able to adjust my sight to that range, and then be able to shoot with my release. I don't want to have any ridiculous speed limitations, a deer doesn't care how fast my bow is. I shoot a stabilization system on my bow and the deer don't care how long the stabilizer is.
> 
> I do not shoot 3D competitions as I don't have bows set up for target, I have them set up to hunt, and my bow and arrow combination isn't allowed due to speed. And there are no shoots locally. If I am going to drive, its going to be to shoot a class that I can use my setup as intended.
> 
> If you hunt with it, you should be able to compete with it.


So what in your set up is not legal?
the Ibo does not have a speed restriction as long as you're 5 grains per pound of draw weight.
and that's a manufacturer rules


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## Zixer (Dec 1, 2013)

I use a Trophy Ridge React One. I want to be able to adjust the sight to the correct range to shoot. That's the point in having it.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

You can 
IBO You can shoot MBO
ASA open C , B and A also known 45 and 50 
Lots of choices


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## Zixer (Dec 1, 2013)

I was under the impression that you could use my sight and adjust the range settings in these classes?


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## Zixer (Dec 1, 2013)

Oops that I could not adjust it....you are saying I can adjust it?


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## arlowe13 (Aug 9, 2010)

Zixer said:


> Oops that I could not adjust it....you are saying I can adjust it?


You can in MBO in the IBO. 50 yard Max, no equipment restrictions.


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## Dan-0 (Dec 4, 2007)

Zixer said:


> Oops that I could not adjust it....you are saying I can adjust it?


Yes, in all of the classes that Wes mentioned, you can dial in your sight to the yardage you like


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## rhyno_071 (Feb 22, 2009)

Kstigall said:


> :embara: I hope you picked up on the sarcasm in my post!


Yes I did. I hope you read no drama in my post. If so, stop committing.


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## Zixer (Dec 1, 2013)

Very cool, thank you for the information.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Zixer said:


> Very cool, thank you for the information.


You welcome


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

They raise money that goes towards defending bow hunting rights, tell me the Asa does this! Look at hunter class and tell me it's not hunters with 400 people in one class. ASA is just another target event not 3D!! Not everyone loves ASA so get over yourselves and don't comment on something you don't participate in and know nothing about!!


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

^^ this was directed at two specific people and they know who they are!^^


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Bow bandit said:


> ^^ this was directed at two specific people and they know who they are!^^


is there a list of the things that they have done to defend bow hunting rights, I would like to see where the money goes?


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Bow bandit said:


> They raise money that goes towards defending bow hunting rights, tell me the Asa does this! Look at hunter class and tell me it's not hunters with 400 people in one class. ASA is just another target event not 3D!! Not everyone loves ASA so get over yourselves and don't comment on something you don't participate in and know nothing about!!



yeah its so horrible that the ASA give the money back to the shooters and quit drinking the Kool Aid the host club in Bedford has a pretty big bank account so what are they defending


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## victor001 (Jan 31, 2011)

All the shoot's around here alway's draw the biggest turnout if they also have a known class . Alot of average shooter's are afraid of the unknown . JMO


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I might be a little quicker to support IBO events if someone can provide us a list of the things they do to defend bow hunting and how much they give.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

victor001 said:


> All the shoot's around here alway's draw the biggest turnout if they also have a known class . Alot of average shooter's are afraid of the unknown . JMO


A lot of shooters are afraid of the known too. They don't have any excuses to hide behind like they do shooting unknown


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

treeman65 said:


> A lot of shooters are afraid of the known too. They don't have any excuses to hide behind like they do shooting unknown


yep


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## mthcharlestown (Jan 17, 2013)

What does MBO stand for?>


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

male bowhunter open


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

Haven't spent much time looking at the ASA format living in WNY as the nearest shoot this year is over 700 miles away from me. I would shoot known 50 over IBO Hunter Class any day of the week. Take away the scope and lens, keep the 36" Stab and Back Bars...keep the hinge...I just want the distance. I have never shot a deer without a range finder. And if we didn't have range finders I'd spend more time learning the art. However, I prefer to spend time on something I'll use...shooting. Seems silly they won't even give the idea a look. Even club shoots up here are all IBO format...


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## DCPA (Jan 10, 2012)

stillern said:


> Haven't spent much time looking at the ASA format living in WNY as the nearest shoot this year is over 700 miles away from me. I would shoot known 50 over IBO Hunter Class any day of the week. Take away the scope and lens, keep the 36" Stab and Back Bars...keep the hinge...I just want the distance. I have never shot a deer without a range finder. And if we didn't have range finders I'd spend more time learning the art. However, I prefer to spend time on something I'll use...shooting. Seems silly they won't even give the idea a look. Even club shoots up here are all IBO format...


I agree. Being from NWPA I just dont have the time to travel.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

stillern said:


> Haven't spent much time looking at the ASA format living in WNY as the nearest shoot this year is over 700 miles away from me. I would shoot known 50 over IBO Hunter Class any day of the week. Take away the scope and lens, keep the 36" Stab and Back Bars...keep the hinge...I just want the distance. I have never shot a deer without a range finder. And if we didn't have range finders I'd spend more time learning the art. However, I prefer to spend time on something I'll use...shooting. Seems silly they won't even give the idea a look. Even club shoots up here are all IBO format...


Maybe a miracle will happen where IBO actually listen to shooters. We live in nw pa and if we can't shoot ASA we don't shoot
Some of the local clubs are coming around with known distance I just wish IBO would open their eyes and quit being so ignorant about this subject


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## jjgsp (Sep 6, 2002)

I think the biggest known distance is Redding. It is also the best time I ever had at a outdoor shoot. Been to IBO & ASA They are great---- but not as good as Redding. IMHO


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## beastmodebiz (Apr 9, 2012)

I see nothing wrong with having both unknown and known yardage classes. Which ever class you are passionate about...you go shoot in that class. More shooters brings more exposure to the world of archery and bowhunting. More shooters creates more revenue for the organization, the vendors, and the local community that the event is hosted at. The more people who get into the sport, will grow the sport (manufactures, local archery shops, local clubs and ranges, and the large shooting organizations). The IBO is a great organization, but they could impact our future with another positive addition.


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

jjgsp said:


> I think the biggest known distance is Redding. It is also the best time I ever had at a outdoor shoot. Been to IBO & ASA They are great---- but not as good as Redding. IMHO


...and I defy anyone who has been to Redding to proclaim that known distance 3D is "too easy" ! LOL


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

I think we should make ASA & IBO just like tee ball and give every one that participates a trophy and quit keeping scores. You could shoot what ever equipment you prefer and if you miss the target you can walk up to the target and stick your arrow in it. Does any one have any idea what expense would be in having a known yard class. There would need to be seperate courses for these class.


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## tecshooter (Oct 29, 2003)

hoytxcutter said:


> I think we should make ASA & IBO just like tee ball and give every one that participates a trophy and quit keeping scores. You could shoot what ever equipment you prefer and if you miss the target you can walk up to the target and stick your arrow in it. Does any one have any idea what expense would be in having a known yard class. There would need to be seperate courses for these class.


I think you're stretching for a reason to bash people that are willing to shoot IBO if they would make a change to their classes. I don't want a trophy if I can't earn it, and most wouldn't, so stop that line of crap... Could there be an added expense, yeah, but if more shooters come, guess what... revenue goes up, too. There also wouldn't HAVE to be separate courses, just better course management by the IBO would be a starter. Right now an MBO shooter that shoots all 40 on Friday can tell his friends the yardages if they shoot Saturday and Sunday. For all you know, half of the field might shoot known yardage already in the IBO...


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