# How much is the Hound Hunting Issue Worth?



## jfish (Nov 14, 2007)

As we all know there has been much debate regarding the Hound Hunting issue in Va. It is easy to point fingers and make suggestions but the bottom line is nothing comes for free. Regardless of what side you are on would you be willing to accept an increase in the Big Game License to support the management of this issue? For the sake of this poll lets say the increase could not exceed $15.00 per big game license per year both resident and nonresident.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

How would you manage this without making penalties stiff enough to be worthwhile?

Aloha...


----------



## 3sheets (Dec 29, 2007)

Jfish,


You left out "*undecided*" or "*other*" !!! :wink:

The landowner in me says a most definate NO, those who TRESSPASS make absolutely zero contribution to my land, nor do they contribute squat towards my property owner's liability insurance. :tongue:

As a Hunter, one part of me says NO as well. Why should all of us be footing the bill when one particular group among us is causing extra enforcement issues. The other part of me says YES, because if we just force that one problem group to pay extra, then they will think that since they alone are paying more, they should have a bigger say. :zip:



"*ANOTHER*" (perhaps more logical) choice would be:

If you hunt with a dog(s), then you would be required to pay a set fee per each dog that you use to hunt with. The logic being that the more dogs you have the more potential for you creating problems. Additionally, I am footing my own $$ for the "equipment" I choose to use to hunt with, so why shouldn't those that choose to use dogs be required to do the same?? 

These monies could be used not only for the enforcement issues, but also for the "Missing Dog" and "Turn In a Tresspassor" hotlines (that Hokieman has said elsewhere could possibly be too cost prohibitive for the VHDA to run) to be run by the VDGIF. Of course, any leftover funds would be dedicated to the future "Dog Sign Reading School"!! :set1_applaud:


3sheets :bounce:


----------



## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Just today*

I went down to the farm to check things out. As I got out of my vehicle I heard a dog "crying" in distress. I have an old "johnny house" that I have not torn down as it brings back old times  with the moon shape opening cut in the side. The deer dog somehow got into the johnny house and fell into the hole (about 4 feet deep but it is dry). From the looks of things the dog had been in there for about 4 days and was skinny as a rail. I pulled her out, fed and watered her and then called the owner (his name and number was on her collar). If I had waited until next weekend to go down there the dog would have been dead I'm sure. Poor dogs catch hell during deer chasing season. I see them standing in the ditches beside the road all the time. Skinny and lost while the owners are lying on the couch at home watching Sunday football Seems that most every time I go to my property from Novemer 15 to January 6 I'm confronted with situations and issues involving and related to deer chasing. It would certainly be nice to be able to occasionally spend MY time doing the things I want to do without being continously distracted by others. But I guess all of us "hunters" should pull together, huh? Yeah, right!! *CHASIN AIN'T HUNTIN*
I hope I can live long enough to see an end to this crap.


----------



## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> I went down to the farm to check things out. As I got out of my vehicle I heard a dog "crying" in distress. I have an old "johnny house" that I have not torn down as it brings back old times  with the moon shape opening cut in the side. The deer dog somehow got into the johnny house and fell into the hole (about 4 feet deep but it is dry). From the looks of things the dog had been in there for about 4 days and was skinny as a rail. I pulled her out, fed and watered her and then called the owner (his name and number was on her collar). If I had waited until next weekend to go down there the dog would have been dead I'm sure. Poor dogs catch hell during deer chasing season. I see them standing in the ditches beside the road all the time. Skinny and lost while the owners are lying on the couch at home watching Sunday football Seems that most every time I go to my property from Novemer 15 to January 6 I'm confronted with situations and issues involving and related to deer chasing. It would certainly be nice to be able to occasionally spend MY time doing the things I want to do without being continously distracted by others. But I guess all of us "hunters" should pull together, huh? Yeah, right!! *CHASIN AIN'T HUNTIN*
> I hope I can live long enough to see an end to this crap.


Thank you for calling the owner.


----------



## deepzak (Sep 24, 2007)

I had to vote no. Not because I don't want to help manage the issue, but because it is not fair to expect someone who does not utilize this form of hunting to pay for it. In VA there are seperate license's for General Hunting, Muzzle Loader, Crossbow, Archery and Big Game. At $18.00 a license, that means I pay $72 a year (I don't hunt with a crossbow) just for license's. If you increased those $15.00 each that price would jump to $132, I could buy an out of state license in some states for less than that. If they wanted to do something, make a new license for dog chasers for an additional $18.00. After all, they want to use a seperate piece of "equipment" to kill deer, let them pay an additional fee like bow hunters or muzzleloader hunters. Actually, since most clubs utilize more than 1 dog, it should cost more, or every member of a dog club should have to buy a license. The mony collected could go to pay for more GW's or to fund 3sheets' missing dog hotline.



Moonkryket said:


> I went down to the farm to check things out. As I got out of my vehicle I heard a dog "crying" in distress. I have an old "johnny house" that I have not torn down as it brings back old times  with the moon shape opening cut in the side. The deer dog somehow got into the johnny house and fell into the hole (about 4 feet deep but it is dry). From the looks of things the dog had been in there for about 4 days and was skinny as a rail. I pulled her out, fed and watered her and then called the owner (his name and number was on her collar). If I had waited until next weekend to go down there the dog would have been dead I'm sure. Poor dogs catch hell during deer chasing season. I see them standing in the ditches beside the road all the time. Skinny and lost while the owners are lying on the couch at home watching Sunday football Seems that most every time I go to my property from Novemer 15 to January 6 I'm confronted with situations and issues involving and related to deer chasing. It would certainly be nice to be able to occasionally spend MY time doing the things I want to do without being continously distracted by others. But I guess all of us "hunters" should pull together, huh? Yeah, right!! *CHASIN AIN'T HUNTIN*
> I hope I can live long enough to see an end to this crap.


Moonkryket, please see my post about your found dog on the other VA dog thread .


----------



## jfish (Nov 14, 2007)

*Cost*

What I was actually thinking was only an increase with the Big Game Lic not all the others. Although I don't use hounds I feel the increase would still benefit me. I support anything that assist with the accountablility and management of Deer Hound Hunters. More wardens, dog wardens, tracking program, micro chipping, etc... I would gladly pay a little more to have a more effective mechanism in place to monitor Deer Hound Hunters. 

I agree the users of Deer Hounds should pay the majority of the cost whether it be tagging, micro chipping, per dog permit etc.... But alittle help from those who stand to benefit most from the control of deer hounds may have to chip in too. 

I just know that to create something that will be effective and help non hound hunters with the negative impact of those running hounds its going to cost. Money tends to be the deciding factor in most everything, and as a stakeholder I am willing to chip in..

I hope more folks express their ideas/feelings about this.


----------



## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

If it came in the form of another separate license for dog chasers. Let THEM, and them alone pay for the problems they create. Why should all of us, even those that do not dog chase at all ( west of the Blue Ridge ) pay to fix a problem others created? I pay for an archery license, let them pay for a dog chase license.

It won't cost a dime oto say zero dog chasing of deer or foxes ( the whitetail species they all claim they're chasing) from Sept 15 through Nov 17 or opener of gun. Same for spring gobble. No chasing during gobbler season.


----------



## crazyfarmer (Jan 8, 2008)

BB, I agree with you on that. If it came to that, then their should be a sperate license for just hunting with hounds. We buy a ML and bow license, so why shouldnt their be one for dog hunting


Moonkry, is it always your time of the month kidding lol.. not every dog hunter leaves their dogs out. Some spend weeks looking for them. Sure some dont and those are the ones that I careless about. But you are classifying one as a whole group.


----------



## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*My time of the month??????*

No, it's my time of the YEAR. Until you have experienced what I have during the last 15 years, you have no idea. The days I've had my hunting on MY property ruined because of some inconsiderate deer chaser has all added up to sheer anger and frustration. My time is valuable to me and I assume yours is to you. 

As an example:

As a deer chaser, if everytime you put your dogs in the woods, I got my hands on one of them and hauled him into the next country over and over for 15 years and you could do nothing about it except drive 30 minutes to get your dog..................how would you feel about it?


----------



## crazyfarmer (Jan 8, 2008)

Moonkryket said:


> No, it's my time of the YEAR. Until you have experienced what I have during the last 15 years, you have no idea. The days I've had my hunting on MY property ruined because of some inconsiderate deer chaser has all added up to sheer anger and frustration. My time is valuable to me and I assume yours is to you.
> 
> As an example:
> 
> As a deer chaser, if everytime you put your dogs in the woods, I got my hands on one of them and hauled him into the next country over and over for 15 years and you could do nothing about it except drive 30 minutes to get your dog..................how would you feel about it?


I understand, but im not sure what you meant in the last part? If it was my dog, i'd surely drive 30mins to get him no matter what or where he was in the county... Im with you on dogs messing up the hunts also. I had one dog owner nearby that turned loose his hounds during bow season about everyday. No one could prove it, but now he's do in court for a tresspassing ticket so it bit him in the end. But I have far more hunts screwed over by other hunters wondering during bow season, people hanging stands during season when i have mine up already or atleast by August, ATVs(nothing like someone riding a ATV through the woods where you hunt). I actaully like dogs in the woods during the late season since deer dont move like they do early. I usually see more deer moving after a pack comes through but maybe thats just me. If I had to choose one type of hunting, i'd definitly pick still hunting since out of about the 20 deer I have mounted, maybe 5 of them were ran with dogs. The biggest i kill are still hunting so definitly you have better odds of killing a big buck up a stand. Dogs running a good buck to you is just pure luck and yes it erks me cause every year the biggest deer im after are killed by dog hunters. But I dont own the deer, they are fair game to anyone. It just suks having sheds from one buck and hunting 1 deer only and seeing him killed by someone that doesnt leave a truck for more than 3mins at a time. I have every reason to hate dog chasers to, but I dont since I think they actaully do control the deer herds far better than still hunters would.


----------



## 3sheets (Dec 29, 2007)

crazyfarmer said:


> but I dont since I think they actaully do control the deer herds far better than still hunters would.


I'm thinking that Sunday Hunting would help Hunters control the Deer Herds; course it sorta looks like most of the remaining big city folks (that can't already) are soon going to be able to buy their booze on Sundays. But, no Sunday Hunting, truely F-ing amazing ... our money grabbing, totally gutless legislators are on another roll yet again!!! :tape2: :target:


3sheets :bounce:


----------



## eaholmes1325 (Sep 18, 2007)

I am sorry you guys have not had the joyful experiences of running dogs. The majority of my favorite hunting memories are from running dogs. I have killed many more deer and larger deer sitting in my stand, or slipping through the woods. But, most of those memories pale in comparison. 

I am sorry you have had some bad experiences with negligent hunters in the past, but most of those people are not solely dog hunters. Luckily where I have grown up running dogs has always been looked at as a God given right. We are slowly losing the land where we can do it and it is a sad state of affairs. Some of these people end up leaving the sport all together. Why do we want to run hunters off?

The other thing that happens is land leases become extraordinarilly high. Because a few people that make alot of money decide they want this property to be "theirs" so that they can grow "trophy" deer. 

Sorry to rant, guess I had just better go enjoy the few seasons we may have left...


----------



## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

eaholmes1325 said:


> ........I am sorry you have had some bad experiences with negligent hunters in the past, but most of those people are not solely dog hunters..........


They may not be solely dog hunters but I can tell you it's solely dog hunting that allows them to do the things they do. I'm glad in FL it's not that bad. You're welcome to come bow hunt with me this fall if you wish. I'll put you in the spot the dogs ran through every Sat last year during my bow hunts there. Maybe it'll make some more of those cherished memories for you. It made some for me.


----------



## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Joyful experience?*

Fine Have all the joyful experiences you want on YOUR property and keep your joy ON YOUR property and off mine and we'll get along just great. When my hunting activities ever get to the point that your privacy and property are over run as a result, I hope I'll have enough common sense to realize that I'm the problem and you have the right to your privacy and property. I won't come to you at that point saying " why can't we just get along and be understanding of one another and pull together as hunters" 

I need to tape my head up to keep it from exploding


----------



## 3sheets (Dec 29, 2007)

What eaholmes1325 conviently fails to mention is they do things a tad differently in Florida. :wink:

http://myfwc.com/hunting/deer-dog-hunt-registration.htm


3sheets :bounce:


----------



## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

3sheets said:


> What eaholmes1325 conviently fails to mention is they do things a tad differently in Florida. :wink:
> 
> http://myfwc.com/hunting/deer-dog-hunt-registration.htm
> 
> 3sheets :bounce:


Imagine that?


----------



## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*I think Florida's dog laws should be considered*

by VA DGIF so I started a new thread on it.


----------



## 3sheets (Dec 29, 2007)

The only problem is, any new laws would first have to be passed by our "esteemed" legislative branch. Hopefully thou, the VDGIF and VA Tech will look at the existing laws from all states that permit Deer Hunting with dogs and make a recomendation to the legislature. :smokin:


3sheets :bounce:


----------



## eaholmes1325 (Sep 18, 2007)

3sheets said:


> What eaholmes1325 conviently fails to mention is they do things a tad differently in Florida. :wink:
> 
> http://myfwc.com/hunting/deer-dog-hunt-registration.htm
> 
> ...


My apologies then, I did not look to see what if any regs y'all had. If you don't have any, then maybe you could consider a middle ground like adopting some of Fl's policies instead of doing away with it altogether There were some people that bucked the ideas when they were first proposed, they were the ones giving all of us bad names to begin with. But, it does give accountability to the guys hunting certain areas and causes them to be a little more careful about what they are doing. Wish ya all the luck in resolving your problems, just hope it doesn't completely do away with another persons right to hunt.


----------



## deepzak (Sep 24, 2007)

eaholmes1325 said:


> My apologies then, I did not look to see what if any regs y'all had. If you don't have any, then maybe you could consider a middle ground like adopting some of Fl's policies instead of doing away with it altogether There were some people that bucked the ideas when they were first proposed, they were the ones giving all of us bad names to begin with. But, it does give accountability to the guys hunting certain areas and causes them to be a little more careful about what they are doing. Wish ya all the luck in resolving your problems, just hope it doesn't completely do away with another persons right to hunt.


Hokie, MTN;

Pay attention to the highlighted quote above.


----------



## eaholmes1325 (Sep 18, 2007)

deepzak said:


> Hokie, MTN;
> 
> Pay attention to the highlighted quote above.


Why do I need to pay attention? I wrote it, therefor I know it.


----------



## eaholmes1325 (Sep 18, 2007)

Never mind just read that you addressed that to a few people. On a side note, how do I highlight someones quote?


----------



## deepzak (Sep 24, 2007)

eaholmes1325 said:


> Never mind just read that you addressed that to a few people. On a side note, how do I highlight someones quote?


Highlight what you want in someones quote, it will be blue with white lettering (like in MS word), then utilize the tool bar at the top of the post page. There is a "fonts, sizes, and color" as well as some other features there.


----------



## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

deepzak said:


> Hokie, MTN;
> 
> Pay attention to the highlighted quote above.


More anti-dog hunting comments by the people who are dening they want it banned in Virginia. I have never denied that they are bad apples in the bunch, or that laws may need to be looked at. However, when ever a dog thread is started here, the anti-doggers will always seem to put there spin on how it should be for us pro-dog hunters. My gosh, I forgot it's an archery thread, most comments on here are negative towards anyone who uses dogs. Look at all of the fine writing in there signiture? Boy, I used rocket science to figure this out. But then again, I have been stereo-typed as a lamer and unethical hunter and trespasser because I hunt with dogs. 

The soap box continues, just on another thread.


----------



## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Calling all anti-dog hunters, Calling all anti-dog hunters, your side is losing the poll...............keep on putting the bad dog spin, bad dog, bad dog. :wink:

Virginia has very large tracts of land where dog clubs don't bother anyone. But if the anti-doggers could get dogs banned, then they could start there way of deer management, i.e. earn a buck, antler restriction, and so on.

The fact of the matter also that no anti-dog hunter has mentioned is that in Virginia we have some (not all) politicians that could care less about the Sportman of Virginia and lobby for changes so they can get that $$$$$$$ from local large anti-hunter groups. PETA IS IN VIRGINIA incase others look at this thread, the anti-doggers don't want you to know that though.


----------



## deepzak (Sep 24, 2007)

MTNHunt said:


> Calling all anti-dog hunters, Calling all anti-dog hunters, your side is losing the poll...............keep on putting the bad dog spin, bad dog, bad dog. :wink:
> 
> Virginia has very large tracts of land where dog clubs don't bother anyone. But if the anti-doggers could get dogs banned, then they could start there way of deer management, i.e. earn a buck, antler restriction, and so on.
> 
> The fact of the matter also that no anti-dog hunter has mentioned is that in Virginia we have some (not all) politicians that could care less about the Sportman of Virginia and lobby for changes so they can get that $$$$$$$ from local large anti-hunter groups. PETA IS IN VIRGINIA incase others look at this thread, the anti-doggers don't want you to know that though.


Now your calling me a member of PETA because I do not agree with you or want peoples dogs on property they do not belong on. That's the lowest of low's. 

To the contrary; here is the address and phone numbers to PETA Headquarters right here in Norfolk, VA.:

PETA
501 Front St.
Norfolk, VA 23510 (Map)
Phone: 757-622-7382
Fax: 757-622-0457

I think everyone should know where there advasaries are located. And just for your information, that is not my address!:wink:


----------



## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

deepzak said:


> Now your calling me a member of PETA because I do not agree with you or want peoples dogs on property they do not belong on. That's the lowest of low's.
> To the contrary; here is the address and phone numbers to PETA Headquarters right here in Norfolk, VA.:
> 
> PETA
> ...


I never called you a member. It is just information that should be noted by others that view this post in my opinion. And it is located in SE Virginia.


----------



## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

MTNHunt said:


> I never called you a member. It is just information that should be noted by others that view this post in my opinion. And it is located in SE Virginia.


Right where the rest of those that want to impose their will on others conduct their business - the illegal dog chasers.


----------



## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

BigBirdVA said:


> Right where the rest of those that want to impose their will on others conduct their business - the illegal dog chasers.


stop your sterotyping :wink:


----------



## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

If you believe your extra money will be used to support the enforcement and management of the dog hunting issue......take another look because it probally will not.

IT WILL GO FOR MORE BIRD WATCHING TRAILS, NON-HUNTING WILDLIFE AREAS AND OTHER PROJECTS THAT ONLY HELP THE OUTDOOR GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO CARE LESS ABOUT HUNTING.

We as hunters already support enough of these projects and do not recieve as much as we should currently with the increases already in place.

Think about it, all I have read lately in the newspaper is budget cut backs in the VDGIF and mis-appropriatted funds:sad:


----------



## deepzak (Sep 24, 2007)

Everyone has a right to use the great outdoors. They have a right to fair access. Like it or not.


----------



## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

deepzak said:


> Everyone has a right to use the great outdoors. They have a right to fair access. Like it or not.


Do you have to put a bad spin on everything? My concern is groups who give like the HS and other non hunting groups (who are antikilling, hunting etc.) that will slowly start doing away with hunting and turning Virginia into states like Calf. 

It seems, I have to defend my post after you spin it into a neg thing preety often:sad:

For the record I am for everyone to enjoy the GREAT WONDERFUL OUTDOORS, but since hunters pay the most, lets see so more hunting land, boat ramps, duck impoundments, dove field, etc, etc.

Good golly, lets always bash

Don't you hunt or do you take pictures?


----------



## deepzak (Sep 24, 2007)

MTNHunt said:


> Do you have to put a bad spin on everything? My concern is groups who give like the HS and other non hunting groups (who are antikilling, hunting etc.) that will slowly start doing away with hunting and turning Virginia into states like Calf.
> 
> It seems, I have to defend my post after you spin it into a neg thing preety often:sad:
> 
> ...


Sorry, wasn't try'n to bash you. Just stating is all. I try very hard to have civil discussions and bite my tongue more times than not. Yes, it's true that hunters pay the lions share of VDGIF's buget, however, their efforts go toward all citizens of the state. I too would like to see more public access for hunters as well as management of existing land, but the fact is, is that some of their buget comes from state coffers (income tax, property tax, gas tax....you get the idea) so they too are entitled to use the land. That's all I was saying.


----------



## jfish (Nov 14, 2007)

*Nothings Free.*

I was merely attempting to determine just how important this was to folks. Although I am not a Deer Hound Hunter it is important enough to me that I would support part of the cost of managing it. The original post was made with the idea the funds would be used for mgt of this issue. For me if it helped with dealing with the trespassing and hound complaints (mine included) I would gladly pay a few more bucks. But thats why it is a poll. Folks either are or are not willing to fix it if it cost alittle more. Hence the title "How much is the Hound Hunting Issue Worth?" I guess I should have added "To You."


----------

