# instictive shooting:the real men way



## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

I've shot recurves for many years, bare bow. I have tried many anchor points, but settled on touching the cock feather to my nose, shooting two under. I do not shoot 3D's much, but consistently shoot pretty well out to 35 yds. I do see the arrow shaft under the spot, but do not measusre the gap. It makes hunting a blast.

I've killed a bunch of squirrels using this method, with one out to 44 steps. It is much easier with the compound, as the let off and flatter trajectory makes it much easier.


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## white tail 10* (Aug 3, 2005)

ive seen string walkers . i suppose that is fine for some people , but i think it is more fun aand a greater challenge to just shoot when "it feels right"
we have been gettin more guys to shoot this way and on our last shoot we got 8 shooters , wich is a great number , considering that on the more popular traditional category they were 10 archers
i enjoy the liberty a not so equiped bow gives you wen hunting . ave seen a lot of sights been hit and gettin archewrs in trouble in the middle of a hunt .

and of course , barebows are cheapper , so it is a good way to start shooting


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## Supermag (Jan 27, 2008)

I shoot a Oneida Aeroforce barebow. I use one above, two below. My anchor is just in front of my cheek/jaw bone junction. I've been out of shooting for about 13 years so I don't remember my scores when I was shooting 3D heavy back then but I was in the top 3 shooters in my age bracket (13-14) in all classes of equipment.

After a 13 year hiatus and a equipment change (27" DL to 30" DL), as you may imagine with this style, I'm pretty rusty right now but it's coming back. Today I even busted the nock on one of my FMJs at 15 yards (it doesn't sound like much but I've only been shooting a decent amount for a week now, so I'm happy).

You gotta love barebow, especially for hunting. Don't have to worry about bumping the sights, losing the release, forgetting a rangefinder, or any of the other junk people seem to think is necessary to kill a deer with an arrow. The only draw back is finding the equipment designed for finger shooters, it sure isn't as available as it was 13 years ago.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Barebow is one of those things you have to experience to understand why we love it. For most people, accuracy and effectiveness is the top priority, so sights are the easiest way to get there. And there is nothing wrong with that. I enjoy my sight bow from time to time.

But the fun of being able to just draw on the target, focus on your spot, and let her fly is adictive when you start to get it to work. It is just so much fun. And I really enjoy carrying a bow with no sights, loop, release, or even quiver on it. My bow has a rest on it and that is it. I use a home made tube quiver.


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

I shoot one of my Martin Slayers instinctively.

I anchor just below my eye and look down the arrow and then just use the force. Mind you the high cable guard also gives me a reference to use if needed.


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Limey said:


> I shoot one of my Martin Slayers instinctively.
> 
> I anchor just below my eye and look down the arrow and then just use the force. *Mind you the high cable guard also gives me a reference to use if needed*.




instictive "gap shooter"...:wink:

IMO..there is NO SUCH THING as instinctive...."Conditioned Response" better describe what we do without aiming references.

Afterall, as you shoot your second arrow it can't really be considered instinctive, your brain is re-calculating using input from the previous arrow.

Incoming can of worms i'm sure:zip:


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

aussiearcher said:


> instictive "gap shooter"...:wink:
> 
> IMO..there is NO SUCH THING as instinctive...."Conditioned Response" better describe what we do without aiming references.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean!!

I don't consciously gap shoot but feel the shoot so I guess I sub consciously gap shoot:wink:


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## Caleb M (Apr 30, 2008)

Aussiearcher is completely right. There is no such thing as instinctive. Archers that say that they shoot purely instinctively are fooling themselves. I hear people say that Fred Bear shot purely instinctive by looking ONLY at the target so they do the same thing. If you read The Bowhunter Bible closely in the section about shooting, you would read that he focused on the target but that he saw the arrow in his periphrial vision and used it as a reference point.


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## white tail 10* (Aug 3, 2005)

well , instinctive ....
maybe you are right
this is the way i aim:

i calculate the distance to the target , 
i open my bow (most of the time i open naturally for 44 yards )
i lower (less that the 44 yds) or rise (more then 44 yds) my bow arm to the point to I more or less feel I'll have the bow on position for the real distance (more or less of the 44 yards). 
i look at the arrow and the target with perifereal vision , and position it to where i feel i could hit the target
i have a final look directly at thre target and do the final corrections
i let go 
and i ussually hit left LOL
and also , to when the time im ready to let the arrow go , the deer's been long gone !!!!


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

One of my best friends and hunting buddies could shoot a long bow or recurve so well it was disgusting. He could effortlessly shoot those little 2" groups of 3 or 4 arrows at 20 yds day in and day out. What was worse, he was cross dominant, and honestly believed he shot purely instinctively. He never could understand all my chatter about seeing the shaft under his spot, until he finally tried putting a patch over his eye.

After all that, he decided to figure it out. He set up his target at night, in the pitch dark, with no moon out. He put a light on the spot, and backed off 20 yds with his long bow. He found he could shoot great groups. The only problem was they were consistently about 2 feet off target. 

He concluded he was seeing something as an aiming reference, whether consciously, or not. 

I have a hard time accepting the notion that these guys have no reference point. If so, just shoot with your eyes closed. However, what ever they do, if it works for them, I'm all for it. Just keep it fun.

I do tend to believe that for hunting, the less technique you have to consciously employ, the better it is, generally.


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## Protecsafari (Sep 21, 2007)

Used to shoot a Blackwidow SA2, 61# at my draw, 58" limbs.

I looked at the target only.

Arrows were GT 55/75's with 125gr tips (and 50gr added to front insert).

I shot between 220-240 indoors (Blueface, 20 yards) and 300 out of 400 outdoors. But............when outdoors I shot from the compound shooters stakes, and often the longer MBR ones (that 25 yard and under crap is BORING!).

There is something VERY cool about that arc, having your pretty fletch spin and land in the kill, when all the fast release blasters are watching.

They too think it utterly cool.

Many have never shot a recurve, many have never shot a compound fingers!

Personally, I don't shoot at deer past 30 yards with a recurve, but I've taken smaller game past that, and practice longer D regularly.

Now I'm getting a handicapped recurve, yeah that's it, up and running, an Oneida SE.

It's a tad long, so I need to shorten it, need a new string, some outboard cable saddles (originals cracked). 

Might do a few shoots with it, for kicks. If it's too long then I'll just get an AF80 in medium and work with that.

Oh yeah, on recurve I shoot one top, two bottom, KP300 calf hair tab, anchor middle finger at the corner of my mouth. 

I'll probably shoot that way with the Oneida.

Always off the shelf ;-)


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## white tail 10* (Aug 3, 2005)

I shot between 220-240 indoors (Blueface, 20 yards) and 300 out of 400 outdoors. But............when outdoors I shot from the compound shooters stakes, and often the longer MBR ones (that 25 yard and under crap is BORING!).

There is something VERY cool about that arc, having your pretty fletch spin and land in the kill, when all the fast release blasters are watching.

They too think it utterly cool.

:thumbs_up Protecsafari : i think that is great shooting , and sure is nice when all those sight ,stabilizing,scope lookin guys see us hit targets right in the bulleye 


Now I'm getting a handicapped recurve, yeah that's it, up and running, an Oneida SE.

im shooting a very masculine ,strong looking Aspen compound , and dont feel any shame at all , in fact , most traditional shooters look up to me , and probably will buy an Aspen when ever they can aford one , and when ever they decide to shoot from a stake farther then the one for female shooters .h:59:

It's a tad long, so I need to shorten it, need a new string, some outboard cable saddles (originals cracked). 

Might do a few shoots with it, for kicks. If it's too long then I'll just get an AF80 in medium and work with that.

Oh yeah, on recurve I shoot one top, two bottom, KP300 calf hair tab, anchor middle finger at the corner of my mouth. 

I'll probably shoot that way with the Oneida.

Always off the shelf ;-)[/QUOTE]

congrats , an dkeep on shooting .


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## Protecsafari (Sep 21, 2007)

Mitchell,

Initially (in my case) there was some form of gap shooting going on, the lower the arrow in relation to the hand-the closer it is- the faster and easier it is for the brain to gauge the gap. That, and muscle memory, in short order means one can shoot, by looking at the target only, the brain using the peripheral vision (hand relative to target) but never forcusing on it.

Sighting the target only (visually), the brain does the gap shooting for you, subconscuoisly. You never change focus. Some folks do, hey whatever works for them.

But in my style of shooting recurves, without focus on anything other than the target......the bullseye (or without any other aspect), is that not then instinctive? ;-)

Indoors I get beat by guys gap shooting, 3 fingers under, arrows cut to length so they can aim spot on. Hey, it's within the rules, so be it.

I don't like that way of shooting, and take my place accordingly.

(which btw is usually way higher on the 3D course


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Protec,

To me, there is probably some kind of subconscious reference point for most people if not all, but the more subconscious you can get it, the closer you are getting to my personal definition of "instinctive". I am one of those "sight picture" shooters. I do not measure anything, but I do see the shaft in my peripheral vision.

I would prefer to shoot more instinctive than I do, but I have concluded I just don't have quiet the hand eye co-ordination that some have. However, if I can pause just a moment and settle into a sight picture, I shoot pretty well. I do envy those of you who do it the way you do, and do it well.

I have tried numerous so called "systems". At some point, if the aiming process is necessarily so regimented and structured, you just as well go ahead and put a sight on the bow as you are losing the benefit and pleasure of the part of bare bow I enjoy the most; just being able to draw, look at the spot, and hit it. Of course that is just my personal opinion.

The real gap shooters are deadly accurate. I've seen it in the recurve guys. Some of them can shoot coke bottle tops at 20 yds consistenlty. However, the ones I know personally don't seem to do nearly as well on the animals. 

One of my recurve buddies is an ex pro football player (not the one I referred to above). He shoots much as you do, but I can out shoot him all day long on targets. However, his RECOVERY RATE on animals is phenomenal. I think it is in great part because he has great "hand eye" (can play and excel at any sport) and when in front of game, he does not think about any shooting technique; it all just flows.

I have been shooting some at 35 yds lately, pretty well, at least for me. As I stood there musing about it, I thought about Howard Hill. He could do better than I am doing, with a 90# long bow, shooting arrow after arrow in just seconds. In fact, John Schultz in his book about HH, says he could draw 6 arrows from a back quiver, and put them in the end of a bale of hay, at 100 yards, in less than 15 seconds. Boy, that must have been really, really, satisfying. 

I have discovered that I am no Howard Hill, much to my dismay.

Cheeers


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## CrazyHorse314 (Nov 7, 2006)

*New To Instinctive Archery With Compound*

If I have a 07 Caribou and wanted to try instinctive archery with it. I am assuming it is a just a bare bow, no stabilizer, peep sight, etc.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Crazyhorse,

When you hear someone refer to "instinctive" it usually covers a broad spectrum of guys who shoot without sights on their bow (recurves, long bows, compounds). There are guys who shoot using various methods, or even no method. You can find guys who approach it differently, and yet are very proficient in the way they choose to shoot.

You just have to dive in there and explore the different approaches until you find what seems to work well for you.

If you are interested in some books or videos that offer more, just email me at [email protected] and I'll be glad to give you some specifics.

Cato


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## white tail 10* (Aug 3, 2005)

*Instictive Shooting 101*

CRAZYHORSE:
IV BEEN SHOOTING compound , no sights for the 15 years i been an archer
try sigths once , didnt like it .
ithink you should start training your mind aiming like this ;
class 101 :
get at 15 to 20 yards of a target , draw , anchor , see a small mark in thr target and see the position of the arrow in your perifereal vision . move the bow to where you feel you are going to hit the mark and release .
make coorecctions acording with the success you are finding , till you find a way to make close groups . 
dont move from that distance till you make at least 10" groups

when you dominate 15-20 yrds ( at least 1 month two times a week , 100 arrows each), try the same on 30 yds (16" group), then 40 yrds (28" group)

class 201 ;this is how i train right now 
i place targets at 20,30 and 40 yards .
i shoot just 1 arrow at each distance , alternating from 20,40,30,40,20
then , when im shooting alone , i walk to and from the targets to get intermediate distances .
that way i learn to judge distances for 3d

of course , i cause at lot of disturbances at the range , but people just got use to me .i just try to be polite and shoot fast so they never have to wait for mo to finish .

once you start to make groups , im pretty sure youll never return to sigths !!


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## Supermag (Jan 27, 2008)

that is a pretty good way to do it. Your subconcious mind and body are alot smarter than your concious mind. You just have to shoot alot to teach yourself what everything feels and looks like at the given yardarge. Then practice at various ranges so your mind learns to adjust from one to the other.

The main problem with this (it's what I do) is that once you change part of the equation (ie bow, arrow, draw weight, draw length, etc) you pretty much have to reteach yourself everything. So get everything setup right, then don't change anything.


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## Protecsafari (Sep 21, 2007)

Mitchell,

FWIW I used to have wicked good vision, it has now degraded to 20/20 at age 44.

I also am STRONGLY right eye dominant. So much so that I can't really gauge anything in my peripheral vision-it's hard center focused. 

I have Brown's Syndrome, a nerve problem in my left eye, it causes my left eye to not turn left.

Dunno if that helped me on the gun and bow ranges or my overcoming it somehow netted the positive results.

There might be some brain switching off and on what eye is dominant too, I dunno.

FWIW what works well in the game fields makes me look freakin' stoopid come camera time :-(


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## Protecsafari (Sep 21, 2007)

Supermag,

I agree, I find a good combination and then refuse to change. 

No recalibration required ;-)


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## CrazyHorse314 (Nov 7, 2006)

White tale, do you use stabilizers at all?


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## white tail 10* (Aug 3, 2005)

*yep*

i use the IBO reglamentary 12 " stabilazer 
it is a good size for hunting too.
use a black widow tab
46 ata Hoyt Aspen (been saving for a new BT connie)


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## BowHunter6666 (Dec 28, 2005)

All I have on my bow is a rest and quiver. I dont gap just look at my spot and shoot. I shot split finger style and anchor at the corner of my eye.


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## white tail 10* (Aug 3, 2005)

*bowhunter6666*

excelent anchor , i wish i could try it .
maybe i will when i get the connie and start all over again


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## BowHunter6666 (Dec 28, 2005)

white tail 10* said:


> excelent anchor , i wish i could try it .
> maybe i will when i get the connie and start all over again




I tuck my thumb in my hand and use my thumb knuckle as an anchor on the corner of my eye. Works well for me.


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## jmoose77 (Apr 3, 2004)

mitchell said:


> Barebow is one of those things you have to experience to understand why we love it. For most people, accuracy and effectiveness is the top priority, so sights are the easiest way to get there. And there is nothing wrong with that. I enjoy my sight bow from time to time.
> 
> But the fun of being able to just draw on the target, focus on your spot, and let her fly is adictive when you start to get it to work. It is just so much fun. And I really enjoy carrying a bow with no sights, loop, release, or even quiver on it. My bow has a rest on it and that is it. I use a home made tube quiver.


What mitchell said. I think it's a lot like throwing a ball..some call it memory or whatever and besides how many quarterbacks have you seen throw a football with one hand while holding a sight with the other. I have watched a couple of QB's that could use a sight.:wink:


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## BowHunter6666 (Dec 28, 2005)

That's why I like shooting instinctive I can shoot under a second if I have to. I can also hold for a long time and make my shot. I like shooting my bow on a flat cant and doing a reverse cant. And yes its a blast once you get the hang of it. Its amazing when your arrow goes where you want just by looking at a spot. Just talking about it gets me excited.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

I you want to see a compound bare bow hunter that is just awesome, get some of the DVDs by Tim Wells. He makes shots out to 80 yds, wing shoots, and makes numerous running shots. He is disgusting.


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## CrazyHorse314 (Nov 7, 2006)

Are there any videos out there that show a compount bare bow archer?


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## BowHunter6666 (Dec 28, 2005)

CrazyHorse314 said:


> Are there any videos out there that show a compount bare bow archer?



As Mitchell just mentioned Tim Wells is one of them as are Team Fitzgerald.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

I have to put a plug in for Tim Wells, although I do own the Fitzgerald videos as well.

The best videos I own, by far, are those of Tim. I would highly recommend "Lethal Flight" and "Relentless Pursuit I & II". In these vidoes Tim makes shots that are just unbelievable. In addition, his videos are just fun to watch. He makes a number of running shots, has several ground hunting episodes, and takes every kind of critter you can imagine. It is all bare bow compound.

Neither of these guys has chosen to demonstrate his technique. Personally, I do not like the Fitzgerald videos quiet as much, although they are enjoyable. However, Dan Fitzgerald seems to shoot his bow quiet well.

Tim's videos can be purchased directly at World Hunting Group. Just google it.


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## BowHunter6666 (Dec 28, 2005)

I emailed Tim and he mentions he uses the arrow as a sight. Doesnt bother me because hes seems like a top shelf guy and has one of the best shows ive ever seen. I too enjoy watching his running shots. I also like watching him bowfish he kills some giant gar! Dan and Tim are the guys I watch more then anyone.


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