# Samick Sage Review 2: Fast Flight String (with new video)



## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm curious, what is your draw length on the Sage?
Thanks


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Curve,

I haven't actually measured it in a while. On the little measuring bows in multiple places, it has registered 32", but I know that isn't accurate. It's probably 29 or so. Wingspan divided by 2.5 yields 29.5, and I shoot 30 on compounds comfortably. Because I'm nearly always shooting alone, it's one of the things that is harder for me to measure. 

Cheers,

Patrick


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Oh ok, you must be shooting a full length arrow. Thanks for the video.
Those are great bows.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Curve, 

Yep. Full length arrows for me. The 500 carbons are just about the right length, as I think they're only 31.5 full length, but the aluminums are really long. Doesn't seem to hurt anything, at least within my skill envelope. 

Cheers,

Patrick


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## IAIS604 (Apr 11, 2010)

Nice bow & shooting - what was the distance ???


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## okbow68 (Jul 9, 2009)

Good video !!


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I like these videos and I appreciate yours and having to be out there in that weather has to suck. Its almost golfing weather down here in Bama. Anyway, I can hardly wait to get my SAGE and get it going. Hope I can get it ordered next week......


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

IAIS, 

It was just 15 yards. By the time I started shooting the video, I'd already shot about 80 arrows through the chrono, and trying to patch together decent looking groups from further than that looked like a lost hope. I shot a few 22 yard groups after the filming was over, and it honestly looked pretty bad. I generally only have a handful of good groups from 20+ in me. I'm hoping a lot of practice will change that, but I'm finding that getting good at longer distances has not come easy to me.

Ok,

Thanks!

Rembrandt, 

You know, up until this season, I would only go out when it was pretty nice. As a result, I didn't get much shooting done through the winter. Shooting at an indoor range just doesn't do it for me, so I'd just leave the archery aside for a few months. You don't forget everything in that time, of course, but you backslide a bit. This year, I've decided that the weather is not going to be an obstacle for me. I wouldn't take my vintage Howatt out in the snow, but the Sage, or my Sequoia...absolutely. My one New Year's resolution this year was to shoot at least twice a week, no matter how nasty the weather gets. Today was actually fairly nice. I had a waterproof jacket on, and it was only late in the shoot when the bow got pretty wet. I waxed the string and rubbed the bow down with Pledge when I got in, and everything was fine. They're not made of salt or sugar, after all.

I think you'll enjoy your Sage when it arrives. Like all trads, they're deceptively simple on the outside, deviously complex to master. It's a great time trying, though.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

Another great video Patrick! Good job on the sage bow. Time now to start on those wood arrows!:smile: scout4


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Scout, 

I've been looking at the test kit from 3Rivers...tempting. I think I'll wait for spring, though. It looks like it might be "real" winter weather from here on out, and I'd rather use the aluminum and carbon in such conditions.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

Wooden arrows shoots good in winter! You need the hardwood, maple, ash, hickory, birch! Common Patrick, you can do this!:smile: scout4


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Scout, 

Next time I need something from 3Rivers, I'll order a few, just to dip my toe into the water. See...I can't stand up to peer pressure. I bend like a reed in the wind.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## Buck13 (Dec 13, 2011)

Did you try to chrono the string +/- the silencers? I would guess that unless one has a preternaturally consistent draw or uses a clicker, the difference would be lost in the noise, but my guesses are usually wrong.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Buck,

I did chrono the bow with a preliminary brace height (lower) and bare string. I found that the results, compared to the final test, to be pretty close. The result was virtually the same with the lighter arrows, while the heaviest arrow lost a few fps (literally...two or three). The lightest arrows, at the initial bare string tune, were loud and frankly no fun to shoot. Only the heaviest arrows were reasonable in sound and smoothness at that setting. The smoothness of the bow was good at all observed arrow weights once the BH and silencing were done, and the loss of speed was small to nonexistent. I think the trade-off was absolutely worthwhile.

As to the consistency of draw, that's why I shot a lot of arrows across the chrono. I usually see a fair number of duplicate speeds, but there are always high and low readings, which I throw out, or only mention in passing. I'm not aware of any impact on the chrono in regard to noise in the bow. After all, it is designed to be used with firearms, as well.

If your idea was that a noisy bow (at a given arrow weight) was not applying all its energy to the arrow, and was thus less efficient, I would have to agree with you. This seems to go along with the data, where the lower arrow weights seem mostly unaffected by the addition of silencers.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## Buck13 (Dec 13, 2011)

thorwulfx said:


> Buck,
> 
> If your idea was that a noisy bow (at a given arrow weight) was not applying all its energy to the arrow, and was thus less efficient, I would have to agree with you. This seems to go along with the data, where the lower arrow weights seem mostly unaffected by the addition of silencers.


No, I was just thinking of the simplest factor: that adding the silencers would be more mass to accellerate, so should be a little slower. But they are a pretty tiny part of the total weight...

How much did you change the brace height? I've read that that should have had a detectable effect on speed, but it sounds like it didn't.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Buck,

The mass-moved idea seems to hold water, though it doesn't appear to have the same effect as weight at nocking point/arrow weight. I know that on compounds, adding weight far up the string can actually speed them up. I don't suspect this is the case with trads, but I haven't ever felt like the silencers had a strong impact on my arrow speed.

I ended up bringing it up a good 3/4" and putting silencers on, and only seeing a very minor change in speed. I put my silencers on fairly far away from center, so the mass has to move a lot less. As to the BH, I gave the string some twists and it suddenly responded with a big change. It was within safe limits, so I tested it, and the bow shot well there, so that's what I went with. The 8"ish BH is pretty friendly.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I thought I'd kick this video back to the top, its good for alot of us newbies to watch and learn from. Also the first video can be obtained by clicking on the 1st video on the left list......good stuff and the music grows on ya!


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

at 40 lbs you only need 12 strand not 18 and bow will pick up some speed imho .......your choice 18 strand will definitely make it quiet...


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Rembrandt,

Thanks!

Classic,

I'm coming from the big fat 16 strand Dacron strings, and so even the 18 strand FF feels very thin to me. At 12 strand, I'd have to double or triple serve the string to get decent nock fit, I think. In any case, I'm a "nothing kills like overkill" guy, so I don't mind a string that's way stronger than it needs to be. The other benefit is that I won't have to think twice if I get the 60# limbs (which I may well do).

Cheers,

Patrick


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

thorwulfx said:


> Rembrandt,
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...


Your welcome Patrick........I notice you have three fingers under the arrow. Did you elaborate on that and if you didn't I would like to hear why you like it. I've read somewhere that the Sage doesn't like the under the arrow release. Where I read that I don't have an iota but it looks like it works well for you. Also, did the Fast Flight string add any noticable difference?


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Rembrandt, 

My anchor is the index finger at the corner of the mouth, and the thumb joint behind the jaw (in as far as I settle there for a fraction of a second). I started with split finger initially, but I encountered the idea of 3-under in my travels, and decided to try it out. It immediately made it easier for me to get on target. Though I don't know if I'm a gap shooter in any scientific way, I do always see the arrow, and use it as a reference plane in conjunction with the target. With 3-under, I can use it at the "6 o'clock" position (give or take) and be on target. The low hold depends on the bow, the arrow speed, and the distance. Once I get my head around said target snapshot, I can let the aiming be done in a mostly subconscious or instinctive way. With split fingers and the same anchor, I have to put the arrow so low on the target that it is harder to be consistent at the distances I usually shoot.

That said, I still use split fingers with my light/slow bows, as that allows them to use similar sight references to the faster "big boy pants" bows, and thus allows me to have an easier time switching back and forth. I don't seem to have that difficult a time going between the two draw hand styles, but using split for a bow over 35# doesn't feel right to me. 

As to tuning, you sometimes end up putting the nocking point a bit higher with a 3-Under grip, especially if the bow has not been tillered specifically for it. I didn't find that there was much of a difference in the way the Sage felt between the two string types. As documented, I put the brace height up fairly high in the end, and that effected things more in terms of feeling than the difference between the two string materials. I did notice that the FF string felt thinner (as it was), and that the high brace gave it a slightly stiffer character (as you'd imagine, since the initial draw from brace would begin at a higher poundage.)

The FF string has a different sound on the shot, tending towards a thrum rather than a buzz, if you catch my meaning. After putting the nylon silencers on, it's pretty quiet, especially with the heavier arrows. The more I shoot, the more sold I am with 10 or more grains per pound with a trad. They just tend to exhibit better manners with those heavy arrows. Less noise, more KE, closer point-on distance...and I think that they're a little easier on the bow, too.

Anyhow, I hope that answered your questions, because I've blathered on a spell here.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks, Thats good info and I think the anchor point with the index finger at the conner of the mouth is probably the same as I use to shoot back in my younger days. I didn't put the thumb behind my jaw however but that sounds like an idea that I intend to try with the Sage. I will order a fast lflight string but I intend to shoot witht he string that comes on it for a while till the FF string arrives. I assume the string needs to be 58" long, right?


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## CaliCreole (Jan 20, 2010)

yes the string should be 58" that is what they told me at 3 rivers any way


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

CaliCreole said:


> yes the string should be 58" that is what they told me at 3 rivers any way


I thought that was right.....4 inches less on a recurve....


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Rembrandt, 

The stock string appeared to be 59", and it was a real bear to get it twisted enough to get even minimum brace height. Other than that, a decent string to get started with. I prefer the burly 16 strand dacron string for bows that can't take FF, as they're fairly quiet, and way stronger than they need to be. That's what I'm using on my Super D and my Blackhawk (endless loop, $6 strings...not your highest performance, but easy, cheap, and quiet).

Cheers,

Patrick


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

thorwulfx said:


> Rembrandt,
> 
> The stock string appeared to be 59", and it was a real bear to get it twisted enough to get even minimum brace height. Other than that, a decent string to get started with. I prefer the burly 16 strand dacron string for bows that can't take FF, as they're fairly quiet, and way stronger than they need to be. That's what I'm using on my Super D and my Blackhawk (endless loop, $6 strings...not your highest performance, but easy, cheap, and quiet).
> 
> I'll sure nough keep that in mind. I wrote it down and I'll keep it in my records. I have a 3ring binder that has all the info I can gather on the Sage bow and any info I get goes into that folder! thanks


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