# Hoyt Buffalo, How to increase poundage ?



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

Turning those bolts to the right increases the poundage until you bottom out. Sounds like you might be there now. Turning them left decreases poundage. Be aware that if you decrease poundage you should use some kind of thread lock because the bolts will "walk" to a more open position with each shot. There is no provision for locking the bolts in position if they are not already mashed down to max poundage. I use heavy amounts of string wax in the bolt threads. This seems to keep the bolts steady and does not lock them so tight you need a small pony to unlock them. Loc-Tite blue can also be used. That is the softer style of Loc-Tite that does not harden like stone.

If you are having issues unlocking your bolts simply make sure you are turning left (counter-clockwise) and twist like heck. They'll pop loose. My 60" 50 pound model weighed 54# with the limbs bolted all the way down. My 62" 45# model weighs exactly 50# with the bolts all the way in. This is okay with me. I shoot both bows with the bolts bottomed out. In this position my bows have a slight positive tiller and seem to shoot any arrow I've tried perfectly.


----------



## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Not real familiar with the Buffalo, but does it have a locking set-screw under the limb bolt? If so, it needs to be loosened before adjusting the limbs bolts to change the weight.


----------



## Threestars (Dec 23, 2011)

I didn't understand all of it ... if you can provide some pictures ?

Many thanks 4 the help


----------



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> Not real familiar with the Buffalo, but does it have a locking set-screw under the limb bolt? If so, it needs to be loosened before adjusting the limbs bolts to change the weight.


Jim, I just went and looked at one of my bows. There is a hole in the back of the riser inline with the limb bolt. This looks like a spot you could insert an Allen wrench and move an opposing set screw up against the main body of the limb bolt as you move the limb bolt in or out. This would allow you to snug-up the limb bolt and keep it from moving.

Trouble is that is not the case. I looked into the hole with a light after trying every Allen size. Nothing worked. It appears (down in the hole) that there is a simple crimp present that holds a stop for the limb bolt to bottom against. Unbelievably it's not adjustable as best I can determine.

These bows come with no literature and only a video disc that really stinks. They only show you how to put the bow together and put on the string. No mention beyond how to turn the limb bolts to adjust weight is given. Hoyt and Fred never mention locking anything down once you adjust weight. I learned through trial and error that the bolts turn about .010 with each shot. Always they turn out as you might expect. Lousy design I would have to say.

So a person using this bow has to know that the bolts must be Loc-Tited down (or use wax) if they use the limbs in any other position than fully locked down. This is too bad if you ask me. I happen to like the bow but can understand if someone didn't buy one because of this failing.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

3stars -

ILF and the para-lever system on the Buffalo limbs are set up so you can pivot the limbs in and out by tightening or loosening the limb bolt. Pivoting them in makes the bow heavier and out makes them lighter. (I'm assuming the Buffalo is the same the Hoyts Formula bows never tried to adjust a Buffalo.) 

The illustration is for an ILF coupling, but the para lever system works the same way. 









Now for reality... from the factory, the bolts are probably in mid throw, meaning by tightening the bolts all thew way, at best you might gain about 2#. 

Your other option is telling your dealer that you ordered a 50# bow and got a 43# bow. 7# is more than acceptable error (even though it does happen). Or you could get a new pair of limbs. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

Viper, I've now got two of these bows. From the factory the limb bolts are bottomed out. That's how I recieved mine. And just like the OP, I found the limb bolts to be cranked down as if by a gorrilla. I could, however, loosen mine by turning left. Then you could crank them out to adjust. In my case with both bows you could only lessen the weight from this factory setting. Both my bows were 4-5# over stated weight which seems perfect to me. You can turn out the bolts several turns and arrive at factory stated weight. 

Trouble is unless you loctite the beggers they will continue to rotate outward with each shot. There is no provision to lock the limb bolts in place on the Buffalo. You can only "glue" them in place. This is a very poor design feature. 

I've gone back and looked further at the risers on these bows. The hole opposite the limb bolts looks like it might accept an Allen wrench to the naked eye. But no wrench I own of metric or English measure begins to go in. I really think what I'm looking at down in the hole is a crimp pattern because it's kinda irrregular.

I've even tried Torque heads and they do not fit in any size. Love the bow but hate this lack of forethought.

Eventually you will get your hands on one of these bows. Take a good look at it. I might be wrong but kinda doubt it. Be curious to hear what you observe when you study one.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

S -

I've shot the buffalo, but never tried playing with it since it wasn't mine. 

Hoyt does advertise that the bow IS weight and tiller adjustable. While nothing that Hoyt does surprises me these days, you might want to call them and ask if there is or why there isn't a lock nut to hold the limb bolt in place. I've never seen an ILF riser without some kind of locking mechanism. The thread should be the standard *5/16" x 24*, but again, I haven't played with that specific set up. 

If what you're saying is correct, you're right - it's just one more reason reason to avoid that bow, IMHO anyway. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

I set up and shot a Buffalo last summer...The Buffalo that I played with had a set screw that went into the riser from behind, like in Viper's graphic illustrations...Basically, loosen the set screw to allow the limb bolt to turn in, and when the desired weight and tiller is achieved, tighten the set screw in the riser up snug against the limb bolt...The resulting opposing forces should keep the limbs bolts where Ya want them..I had no trouble what so ever adjusting the limb bolt, setting tiller, and fine tuning this bow....Maybe the Buffalo that the shop had was a different design??.....it's not unheard of for Manufacturers to have mid year design changes....??????????????.......I'll follow this thread to see how it turns out....To the O.P......Call Hoyt's Customer Service, and talk to them....Explain in detail the issues that Your having, see what they say.......Take care.........Jim


----------



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

Interesting, Jim. What you state would make perfect sense. It's what I expected at first glance. Trouble is mine do not work that way. No wrench I own will engage down inside the hole. I've even looked down the hole with a light and under magnfication. It really looks like a press mashed over a hollow end piece that is attached to the main stop (flared it). Like they simply crush-fitted the stop in place. The resulting mess down in the hole doesn't look symetric or matching any wrench style I'm familiar with.

The Hoyt video disc does not mention a secondary locking method to keep your main limb bolts from moving either. Kinda weird.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Shibumi said:


> Interesting, Jim. What you state would make perfect sense. It's what I expected at first glance. Trouble is mine do not work that way. No wrench I own will engage down inside the hole. I've even looked down the hole with a light and under magnfication. It really looks like a press mashed over a hollow end piece that is attached to the main stop (flared it). Like they simply crush-fitted the stop in place. The resulting mess down in the hole doesn't look symetric or matching any wrench style I'm familiar with.
> 
> The Hoyt video disc does not mention a secondary locking method to keep your main limb bolts from moving either. Kinda weird.


.....Shibumi....I would definitely give Hoyt a call on this....As You describe it, sounds like something is wrong....I believe that I used the standard 3/16" Allen wrench to make the adjustments on the Buffalo at the shop....Backed the set screw out, left it loose, set the limbs to the desired tiller using the limb bolts, , shot the bow a few times, checked tiller, and tightened the set screws up snug against the limb bolts....Easy as pie...I'm thinking that there might be something wrong with Your Buffalo, Shibumi....Take care.......Jim


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

S -

While anything is possible, we've had similar problems with allen wrenches fitting the lock nuts. It was ALWAYS a matter of hitting the lock nut at the wrong angle. It's a pretty tight fit in there. 

Like we've been saying, call Hoyt and if what you say is true, they should owe you a new riser. If that were truly the case with all the buffs, I think there would have been a larger uproar and possible recall.

Viper1 out.


----------



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

Jim, later today I'm going over to a local airport where I keep a small plane. In one of the hangers is a fiber-optic scope. I'll peek down inside the hole with that. Now I'm only using a mag glass and pen light. Still, I've got very good eyes and it sure looks like a crush-fitted mess to me. 

Will get back to this in the afternoon after I've had a better look.

Both of my Buffaloes have this issue - not just one. Serial numbers H013 and H017. Both purchased at the same dealer.


----------



## Elgavilan (Feb 7, 2010)

The Hoyt Buffalo I have does have a set screw on the limb adjustment bolts. The set screw takes the same allen wrench (supplied with the bow by Hoyt) as the limb adjustment bolts but is sometimes hard to engage through the small hole on the back of the riser. If you adjust the poundage and don't tighten the set screw the bow will rattle some too. My adjustment procedure is: Loosen the set screw enough to allow the adjustment bolt to move in or out depending on your need, then adjust the limb adjustment bolts, then tighten the set screw up against the limb bolts to prevent any bolt movement. The system works well.

Mike


----------



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

Confessions from the world's dumbest man: LOL

There is nothing wrong with my bows or the design in general. All along I'd been using too small an Allen wrench - that's right, the airline pilot who has your lives in his hands didn't see that the size was quite so large. Not till Jim mentioned 3/16ths. A wrench of that size did fit and does move the locking set screw.

What I was seeing down in the hole was the normal amount of mashed material from when they swaged the Allen female portion of the bolt. The sides of the 3/16" hole are perfect and do take a proper wrench. I was very wrong.

We have fair weather today, folks, and will cruising at 37,500 feet. We hope you have a good flight and now I'll turn this pig over to my co-pilot. I've got good faith in the boy - he knows 3/16ths from 3/32nds. LOL


----------



## Mark Land (Dec 4, 2003)

The Buffalo bow should come in setup at your weight in the mid-range of the adjustment range for the limb bolt and weight is measured at 28in. You will have to loosen the set screw that is under the bottom of the limb bolt to adjust and normally will have 2 or turns you can make to the bolt with a total of about 5 turns allowed for adjustment. The wrench is a tight fit on the set screw and may take some fiddling to get it to align, but I had no problems adjusting my bow and with the 55# limbs at 28in I can go from 53-58# on my bow.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Shibumi said:


> Confessions from the world's dumbest man: LOL
> 
> There is nothing wrong with my bows or the design in general. All along I'd been using too small an Allen wrench - that's right, the airline pilot who has your lives in his hands didn't see that the size was quite so large. Not till Jim mentioned 3/16ths. A wrench of that size did fit and does move the locking set screw.
> 
> ...


...L.O.L....Shibumi, I'm a "Chip maker'' by trade, ( Old School Machinist) so, I dont think that I'm qualified to fly the plane, either...L.O.L....Glad that Ya got it worked out....Merry Christmas!....Jim


----------



## Threestars (Dec 23, 2011)

its Hard to me to contact Hoyt or return the bow to the dealer, Because I live in Kuwait , and I order it from 3river Archery
BUT
Many thanks guys ... I did it 
I adjust the poundage
Thanks alot
Have a nice day


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

I don`t think any thing is wrong with bow.. people make outrageous comments without seeing or having said bow in their hands.. I was a hoyt rep and quality control is a understatement for them.. first how was bow weight measured ... was it done correctly... the bows come with an owners manual .. please read it it will explain a lot... plus o/m can be down loaded from their site.. there are lock screws on each limb bolt.. make sure to back off these before trying to turn limb bolts..... Glad to see you got it worked out and Merry Christmass at 37,000 feet.. sure your not SANTA...lol lol


----------



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

Classichunter, I love the bow and never doubted the quality. I simply could not figure out a simple feature that was not even mentioned on the DVD supplied with the bow. No literature of any kind was supplied with either bow. Not even a warranty card or anything like that. No instructions for a person who might not have a computer. Even with a computer the video makes no mention of a locking screw. I've now watched it twice all the way through.

Love the bow, disappointed with the lack of instruction and total lack of literature. That has to change I should think. What would I do if I had a warranty issue? Is there even a warranty? No mention of any warranty with my bows. No literature at all - it's an endless cycle.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

did you buy this new and did it come in the factory box.. I have never seen one that did not come with out warranty card and booklet ..you can register bow on line at hoyt have riser and limb ser numbers handy as these are required .. also a bill of sale will suffice at ANY GOOD DEALERSHIP.. maybe book is a thing of the past but they did supply a dvd for the owner.. most other companies supply no paper work or instructions ie dvd.. at all..... I`m not making excuses for them.. if I remmeber you should of got a stringer and take down case as well with the bow and in some instances decals and a key chain not sure on this model.. you will probably fall in love with this bow ...optional handles are available in higher wrist or lower configurations as per warranty this company strives for customer satisfaction.. imho.. good shooting...


----------



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

Classichunter: I purchased 2 of these things new from a dealer. Both bows came in a cardboard box with zero literature in the box or in the padded case. I recieved no bow stringers with either bow. I did get the padded carry case along with limb socks. I also got that useless DVD in both padded cases. If you have not seen the Fred E. video supplied with the Buffalo, you should. It's a commercial for Fred, period.

In no way does the video show you how to adust tiller. All it tells you is the Buffalo can be snapped together like so - ole Fred stuffs a limb into place. Then he shows you how to put the string on and brace the bow with the non-existant bow stringer.

Video basically chews.

Again, love the bow but hate the packaging and treatment Hoyt foists on the poor dumb bugger who is totally ignorant of how to work this kind of bow. I've been in archery for 35 years and ended up not knowing how to use the locking nuts. Imagine some other shmuck who's never seen any kind of bow before and buys the Buffalo?


----------



## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> ..you can register bow on line at hoyt have riser and limb ser numbers handy as these are required .. also a bill of sale will suffice at ANY GOOD DEALERSHIP..


Classichunter, I would caution folks to KEEP THE *DATED* BILL OF SALE and make sure it has the serial numbers of limbs and riser. It will be needed to get a warranty authorization number from a dealer. The online serial # registration seems to be for their compound bows only. 

I'm not sure how the Buffalo is warranted, but Hoyt covers the other competition models as the limbs and risers being separate purchases and products. Risers come with a lifetime warranty and limbs are for one year from purchase date, which both require proof of purchase.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

bow should of come with stringer as advertised on their web site .. x2 in your case again I think box opened sometimes dealer staff thinks this stuff is theirs.. contact selling dealer and make sure to get short shipped stuff and I checked on hoyt web site and stringer is listed as supplied equipment. if you do call Hoyt for this directly tell them of your concerns and usually they correct and sometimes throw in a few goodies to boot.. also mention no warranty cards as well .. they want to know about this stuff on a 700 dollar bow..we always get better service when you talk to someone other than a computer which is a good place to hide .. get the persons name first and then move on to problems usually when you ask some one to spell their name you have their attention...lol and that is for all companies...on line registration was for recurves as well as my formula rx recurve is worth about 1300 dollars and it was reg on line.receipts are required by about 99% of stores or businesses....again You`ll love this bow sorry about the fred hype as I`m not in favour of any tv personal endorsing a product too much ..and thats for another day lol lol again Merry Christmas


----------



## Shibumi (Nov 25, 2011)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> bow should of come with stringer as advertised on their web site .. x2 in your case again I think box opened sometimes dealer staff thinks this stuff is theirs.. contact selling dealer and make sure to get short shipped stuff and I checked on hoyt web site and stringer is listed as supplied equipment. if you do call Hoyt for this directly tell them of your concerns and usually they correct and sometimes throw in a few goodies to boot.. also mention no warranty cards as well .. they want to know about this stuff on a 700 dollar bow..we always get better service when you talk to someone other than a computer which is a good place to hide .. get the persons name first and then move on to problems usually when you ask some one to spell their name you have their attention...lol and that is for all companies...


You seem like a nice man. So please don't take my sour attitude as any slight on your part. 

My bow boxes sure didn't look like any other person opened them previous. All original sealing as best I could tell. As for now having to do Hoyt's job and spend my time making Hoyt's errors right? No thanks. Fortunately I can afford to get screwed if my Buffaloes blow up tomorrow. I wouldn't bother contacting Hoyt. I'd just move on to another maker. But I truly don't think I'll have warranty issues - I've never once had issues with any bow before. Not once. So I'll gamble my Buffs will be OK.

I hate the notion of having to backtrack and make a company's lack of attention my quality issue. If Hoyt doesn't value customers highly enough, eventually it will bite them in the butt. I'm not on earth to make Hoyt better. I don't have the time and most folks don't either. So please, if you feel highly about such things at Hoyt, you tell them or show them this thread. I'm not in the archery business.

signed: A man who loves the Hoyt bows but doesn't give a rip about making Hoyt better on my own time.

And one other thing - Merry $%&# Christmas (lol)


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

just trying to help .. Again could be shops problem but we will never know.. enjoy the new bows and some day I hope our paths cross to enjoy a few.. take care..


----------



## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Double post


----------



## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

They have a locking bolt set screw the reason it your limb bolt turned so hard is you did not un lock the set screw 

Unlock set screw then 

Adjust your tiller your and weight then tighten your set screw 

Oops posted before I read everybody answered this 

Sorry


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Shibumi said:


> You seem like a nice man. So please don't take my sour attitude as any slight on your part.
> 
> My bow boxes sure didn't look like any other person opened them previous. All original sealing as best I could tell. As for now having to do Hoyt's job and spend my time making Hoyt's errors right? No thanks. Fortunately I can afford to get screwed if my Buffaloes blow up tomorrow. I wouldn't bother contacting Hoyt. I'd just move on to another maker. But I truly don't think I'll have warranty issues - I've never once had issues with any bow before. Not once. So I'll gamble my Buffs will be OK.
> 
> ...


Welcome to Hoyt quality control. Just ask the guys who purchased the 990 series of competition limbs how good it is......after they had the replacement sets blow-up and Hoyt would replace them again because the original purchase was over a year ago, when the replacements were only a few months old.
Thats why Hoyt won't get any of my money.

-Grant


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

again we should get facts straight .... if I remeber it was the 900 limbs that had a production problem and these where usually replaced no problem under warranty..and then production was stopped and line dropped .. I think 990 limbs are still in production today and the 3 sets I have shoot great and no failures.. again most are fita limbs shot with the lightest arrow possible for performance.. and some shot with arrows under weight for thousands of shots.. and ALL companies have some production problems... and if a company is willing to replace limbs 2 or more times under warranty as stated in grantmac thread wow great service.. right...


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

That should have been "would not replace" after the first set. This was also with the first 990 series limbs.
Not my limbs, but heard enough about it.
I DO have a set of FX limbs which are still going strong 10 years on, so this was clearly a QA or design problem. Something that should not be released to the public, or at least recalled, not just left to break as they will.

Hoyt makes an great Oly riser. But I would only shoot their limbs if you paid me. Let alone a set of Buff limbs for what? $300 for glass over wood? Yeah thats a steal.....

-Grant


----------



## Hurona (Feb 5, 2017)

*Solved*

The wrench to unscrew the back bolds IS TORX T-30 , european . I 've increased mine 7 pounds.


----------



## Mark Land (Dec 4, 2003)

That allen headed set screw should be a 3/16 but they are tight. Typically you should only get about a 10% weight change on the bow, obviously somebody had played with those limb bolts and they were backed way out more than they should, but glad you got it straight, they are fantastic bows and I am very happy with all 3 of mine. Got a Satori coming in as well, but highly doubt it will out shoot my buffalo's.
Grantmac if your still around the factory Buffalo limbs are actually glass/wood/carbon and very good performers for me for a set of $300 limbs.


----------



## jbhoyt (Nov 29, 2006)

Are the poundages written on the limbs the minimum or max?


----------



## Mark Land (Dec 4, 2003)

The poundage on the limb is rated at 28in of draw and is typically delivered in the mid-range of the tiller adjustment for the bow so typically you can go up or down 2-3 turns on the limb bolts.


----------

