# DIY Arrow squaring device



## 5stang0 (Feb 27, 2015)

My DIY ASD that I made today using aluminum and skateboard bearings. The piece of Emory cloth is secured using a steel plate behind the block of aluminum on the head. When you remove the steel plate this doubles as an arrow spinner so I can check for straightness as well.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

Nice work. That should serve you well.


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## 5stang0 (Feb 27, 2015)

It makes surprisingly beautiful ends!


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## onyx48166 (Feb 9, 2011)

good work, Yours is cool!
I just 3d printed mine


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## 5stang0 (Feb 27, 2015)

I would love to have a 3d printer.but they are way out of my price range


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

you don't need an arrow squaring device. cut the things square to begin with and there is no issue to correct.


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## 5stang0 (Feb 27, 2015)

Not everyone is perfect like you.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

caspian said:


> you don't need an arrow squaring device. cut the things square to begin with and there is no issue to correct.


I believe that you are exactly right. If it's cut square to begin with, no further squaring is needed. 

But, how do you know if it's square?

Surely, if you know that your shafts are cut square, no further work is needed, but how do you determine that the cut is square?

I retired 3 years ago after being a machinist for 46 years. These days, after cutting my shafts, I use a Silver Sharpie to paint the ends. Then, I run them across the squaring device until the Silver is gone. At that point, I know they are square. 

They average person (no dis-respect intended) doesn't understand the difference between a rotating work piece and a rotating cutting tool. But, there is a difference.

It just depends on how well you want your equipment to be built.

Best of luck to each of you.


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## DrenalinHntr (Mar 10, 2011)

caspian said:


> you don't need an arrow squaring device. cut the things square to begin with and there is no issue to correct.


ignorant.

good build bro.


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## rkumetz (Jun 20, 2014)

caspian said:


> you don't need an arrow squaring device. cut the things square to begin with and there is no issue to correct.


We will just assume that you had a few too many beers and were making a joke because the other option reflects poorly upon your cognitive abilities.


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## ebag600 (May 28, 2014)

rkumetz said:


> We will just assume that you had a few too many beers and were making a joke because the other option reflects poorly upon your cognitive abilities.


lol


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

rkumetz said:


> We will just assume that you had a few too many beers and were making a joke because the other option reflects poorly upon your cognitive abilities.


I'll assume that you're simply incapable of registering the point being made.

an ASD is only necessary if the shaft is cut non-squarely to begin with.

since doing so to a degree far beyond that which is necessary is a trivial exercise, what does that say about both your capabilities, and understanding of the subject?


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

bbjavelina said:


> I believe that you are exactly right. If it's cut square to begin with, no further squaring is needed.


there we agree.



> But, how do you know if it's square?


maths. it's a trivial exercise in basic trigonometry to demonstrate that the geometry of a cutter will provide a square cut, and an equally inconsequential one to achieve that in practice. 



DrenalinHntr said:


> ignorant.


no, it's called "science". it's actually not hard, but it's based on measurement, observation, and learning. it relies mostly on the concept of testing concepts accurately and following the results, as opposed to the ones you'd like to be true because to believe otherwise would challenge your thought processes, the ones you're taught to be true and your don't want to challenge your forebears, and the ones you'd really like to be true because stops you having to actually confront the nasty realities of life.

examples of the latter three are the need for ASDs, religion, and following the Dimmocrat party.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

maths. it's a trivial exercise in basic trigonometry to demonstrate that the geometry of a cutter will provide a square cut, and an equally inconsequential one to achieve that in practice. 


I'm not doubting what you're saying, but I don't understand it. Could you explain a bit further?


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## b-a-maniak (Apr 19, 2014)

bbjavelina said:


> maths. it's a trivial exercise in basic trigonometry to demonstrate that the geometry of a cutter will provide a square cut, and an equally inconsequential one to achieve that in practice.
> 
> 
> I'm not doubting what you're saying, but I don't understand it. Could you explain a bit further?


Sure, I've got this. I just sandwiched a hunk of wet/dry sandpaper between a V block and a 1-2-3 block and rolled my shaft ends in the V against the paper. Some shafts were cut on an arrow saw, some I cut with tubing cutters. I know for a FACT that all of them are now within +/- .000000000000000000000001" of being square. I'd feel better about it all if I had an optical comparator to check them and knew how to use it, but I really don't trust that the shafts, nocks, inserts and point tolerances are held quite as tight...
:set1_draught2:

Nice tool OP, well done.:thumbs_up


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

So if you cut the shaft square how do you know the insert is truly cut parallel?
Should a guy just trust that they are?
Not trying to be a smarty pants just asking.

I don't trust that inserts are cut parallel.
I feel I need the ASD to true up the the insert before 
installing a field point or broad head...I need this even after 
the arrow has been used multiple times. I find that torque against the insert
changes the surface...After all its soft...Its aluminum. A burr on the insert or broad head
can cause problems. So I feel the need for an ASD. 

OP...Nice job...It will serve you well!


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

b-a-maniak said:


> I just sandwiched a hunk of wet/dry sandpaper between a V block and a 1-2-3 block and rolled my shaft ends in the V against the paper. I know for a FACT that all of them are now within +/- .000000000000000000000001" of being square.


What kind of 123 & V blocks do you have? Most of them are only ground to within +/- .0001 - .0002
+/- .000000000000000000000001" of being square.....You cant be serious?
I would agree your method would get you so close that who gives a hoot how far off it is at this point.
I do like your idea...Good one!


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

bbjavelina said:


> I'm not doubting what you're saying, but I don't understand it. Could you explain a bit further?


we want the end of the arrow to be "square", or in other words, perpendicular to the lengthwise axis of the shaft at all points of circumference. that means the base of the point or broadhead will seat evenly around the full circumference of the contact with the face of the shaft when seated or screwed home.

(incidentally, I've seen it demonstrated locally of late that this isn't just a broadhead issue. a quite good archer broke several Nano tool steel points off flush with the end of the shaft, the issue was found to be the shafts were cut poorly and the resulting side force during impact with the butt was snapping the points off at the neck of the shank.)

to achieve a perpendicular face, all we need to do is keep the length of the arrow side wall equal all the way around the shaft, right? the means when we cut, the back end of the shaft goes in the same position every time, and the saw blade touches the shaft at the same length all the way around the shaft.

to achieve this is actually pretty simple. use a depth stop so the shaft can only be presented to the blade so far, preferably just enough to cut through the side wall. rotate the shaft into the blade, which reproduces the same contact point between shaft and blade all the way around.

DON'T allow the shaft to be presented to the blade any more than necessary, because that's removing more material than you want, and will lead to a zigzag cut.
DON'T use any form of drop-saw style cutter where the blade is presented to the shaft as opposed to the other way around, because this won't allow the shaft to be spun to ensure a perfectly equal cut.





YBSLO said:


> So if you cut the shaft square how do you know the insert is truly cut parallel?
> Should a guy just trust that they are?


I take the point of view that inserts are turned on a lathe, and unless the manufacturer is a complete idiot, then that will produce better accuracy than any hand finish ever could. if you want to measure it, it's fairly simple - chuck the insert up in a lathe and spin it by hand with a DTI applied to the face. I'll be surprised if the runout is even measurable, to be honest.

for that matter, how do you know that the back face of the point or broadhead is square?


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

caspian; for that matter said:


> I don't...So what do you suggest I do? Should I just throw away my arrow spinner and ASD device?
> I don't have a lathe.
> Should I just not worry about any of it?
> 
> ...


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

personally I suggest that worrying about the runout accuracy of the back of points is unnecessary, for the same reason I think the same of the face of inserts. buy quality brand components and forget about it.

I also personally suggest that the accuracy easily attainable by cutting shafts correctly in the first place makes the need to square them totally redundant, but if you feel like doing it - by all means go for it.

BTW, my budget Decut saw (which is an Easton without the $200 stickers) has a nice adjustable depth stop so you can attain a square cut in the first place.


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## douglaswei888 (Nov 17, 2015)

now choose a decut saw for just usd120 free shipping.they are on sale now at ebay.


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## kerrye (Sep 1, 2010)

rkumetz said:


> We will just assume that you had a few too many beers and were making a joke because the other option reflects poorly upon your cognitive abilities.


This has to be the height of chutzpah. I DON'T need an asd because I chuck my shafts on my lathe and spin them, cutting them of with a dremel (Ryobi). Now can you tell me how they will be anything BUT square?


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## Stay Sharp (Oct 4, 2015)

Outstanding build. Ours are 3D printed thus a little lower tech.


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## tylerbenelli (Oct 7, 2013)

I like the build all these squares make me want a 3D printer!


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## midview132 (Oct 11, 2015)

nice


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

Too bad the OP was derailed from a really nice home build to a fellow who seems really full of himself.......ukey: Well done, OP. Very nice build and I am sure it will compensate for whatever weaknesses the majority of us share in regards to machining perfection.


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## TreyDay1991 (Oct 6, 2020)

Awesome job, smart design!!!


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## ccdog (May 23, 2007)

Wow, as Alaska at Heart stated. That got way outa hand. 
Square'm up anyway you like. I like the original design, use the silver sharpie technique and the 3d unit is slick. has my wheels turning now


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## Evolution_Designs (Feb 13, 2021)

It looks. Great. You will be very happy that you built yourself one. They really do make a difference.


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