# Statistically speaking - hardest target(s)



## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

Not sure about any data compiled and have never seen any published. For me on a Field round....the target size change-ups are my worst. The 50 and 30 have the longest yardage at the smallest target. Ever wonder why you rarely miss the 30 yarder on the 45 walkup? Or the 50 yarder on the 80 yard walkup ? It's a bigger target than the same yardage has on other stations. The fans on the Hunter round also give me some issues when it seems like easy shots.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

I've been logging my practice rounds in ArcherZUpshot this season. I'll see if I an crunch the numbers, but it'll be a small sample size (>20 14-target rounds). 

If I were to guess, the 2 hardest are the 50 and 30.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Ned250 said:


> I've been logging my practice rounds in ArcherZUpshot this season. I'll see if I an crunch the numbers, but it'll be a small sample size (>20 14-target rounds).
> 
> If I were to guess, the 2 hardest are the 50 and 30.


Logging is a great way for you to know where you need to practice - good for you.

Personally 30 for me doesnt ever seem to be too much an issue. 50 gets me sometimes, but I would guess I drop more at 65 - its probably an area I need to focus on.

I did that with 30.....for about 2 weeks straight every night I sat at home and wore the 30 yard face out. I mean I wore it out. To the point that I didnt even think it was difficult any more - that was my problem, I let people tell me how "dirty" they thirty could be.


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Depends on the course. What is easy on one course is difficult on another. Learn your courses well and keep a log of what you had to do during practice sessions to get arrows hitting where you want them on each target. You might have to add some bubble etc. to hit center even when it doesn't make sense to do so.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

It has to be a mental thing. I find the 30 yard target easy. But for some reason, I have a hard time scoring a 20 on the 32 fan on the hunter round. Only 2 yards difference, but for some reason, I find it very difficult.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

The Swami said:


> Depends on the course. What is easy on one course is difficult on another. Learn your courses well and keep a log of what you had to do during practice sessions to get arrows hitting where you want them on each target. You might have to add some bubble etc. to hit center even when it doesn't make sense to do so.


Of course it depends on the layout of the course - I guess I should have clarified, all things being equal.

To me, because I spent time on it the 30 doesnt get into my head. I need to wear out the 50 and 65........ but was just curious if anyone had heard the remarks that my buddy told me. I know he is legit, he is a vegas winner, as well as multiple world record holder - he just couldnt remember the exact order. So thought I would ask if anyone else remembers the "study"


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

You shouldn't worry about which are more difficult. You execute your shot the same no matter the target size.

It really doesn't matter which is the order. All this does is give you too much to think about on the course. You should only be thinking of how you shoot that individual target depending on your log for that target (cuts, bubble, sight setting etc.), then get set up and start your pre-shout routine.

Distance doesn't change how you shoot the shot, so don't worry about it other than getting your cut and bubble and sight set correctly.

If all things being equal other than distance, nothing in your shot changes. Just move the sight.  Don't worry about all the other stuff. Not productive.

I have a field course that is just a straight line back from the butt. I have all the yardages you shoot in a field round marked. When I shoot my course, I either start from the short end or the long end. It is an easy course and when I was in decent form, 553-555 was about my average score.

When I practice outdoors, I only shoot 60 yards. I set my peep height for 60 as well. If I fix my form, shot and gear setup to shoot 60 yard groups so they are as small as I can get them on a regular basis, I don't need to worry about target size. Shooting and practicing at shorter yardage, like 20 or 30 may give you small groups, but will those groups open up at 50,60 etc? Perfecting your form and shot at 60 will give you best results. Small errors in form or equipment tend to show up easier at 60.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Of course it "shouldnt matter" but my brain doesnt work like that - in my profession its best to know what I can in advance, although it never pays out that way.....LOL

Seems with me its a different issue every time.

Yesterday on a half the only target I dropped any points was the 55 yarder..... on flat ground - go figure.... then I dropped all 4 of them !


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Garceau said:


> Of course it "shouldnt matter" but my brain doesnt work like that - in my profession its best to know what I can in advance, although it never pays out that way.....LOL
> 
> Seems with me its a different issue every time.
> 
> Yesterday on a half the only target I dropped any points was the 55 yarder..... on flat ground - go figure.... then I dropped all 4 of them !


Fix the brain.  Fix the body. Fix the bow. Just those 3 things. 

If it is a different issue every time, then you lack consistency. Some form work and bow adjusting can help. Getting your mental game in shape will help too. I have some mental game posts here that are buried pretty deep now, but you can still find them and read them. My article on the mental game was also published in the NFAA magazine some years ago, but I don't remember the issue.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Well some of it is just plain lack of talent..... LOL

But at times I can put together a round (which wasnt a true NFAA style) Like I said, I only dropped points on one target that 14...... but all of them at the 55 (which for some reason was ranging 56) but reality is I dropped all four of them. My buddy thought it was quite funny that I shot a group I could pull out with one hand and all outside the dot...... 

I enjoy field, just not enough of them around. So I built a range in my yard, but the mosquitos have been so miserable this year I havent had much chance to shoot it.


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Garceau said:


> Well some of it is just plain lack of talent..... LOL
> 
> But at times I can put together a round (which wasnt a true NFAA style) Like I said, I only dropped points on one target that 14...... but all of them at the 55 (which for some reason was ranging 56) but reality is I dropped all four of them. My buddy thought it was quite funny that I shot a group I could pull out with one hand and all outside the dot......
> 
> I enjoy field, just not enough of them around. So I built a range in my yard, but the mosquitos have been so miserable this year I havent had much chance to shoot it.


On a new course, I use my range finder on every target. I tested my range finder on my tape measured course, so I know I can trust it. It will do half yard increments.

You never know if the target is the right distance and I don't like to guess.

I was on a course (NFAA Certified) that had the 44 yard hunter at 42 yards. I dropped some points on that once and learned my lesson.

Also, if you are a decent shot, then trust it. If you make a good shot and the arrow didn't hit where it should...move that sight etc. You get 4 arrows to shoot.  If I make a great shot and the arrow isn't where it is supposed to be, I move my sight even if yardage is correct and cut is correct. Don't throw away points when you don't have to.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

The Swami said:


> On a new course, I use my range finder on every target. I tested my range finder on my tape measured course, so I know I can trust it. It will do half yard increments.
> 
> You never know if the target is the right distance and I don't like to guess.
> 
> ...



*Glad you are back Swami....
I have missed your sage knowledge and words of wisdom....
.
Regrettably, last year I took the suggestion of a experienced archer/bow tech. to lengthen my draw and increase my poundage to improve my scores. After 6 months I saw no improvement and more frustration with shots off of the paper! So I have struggled to get my bow back into my old specs. (Stupid me I didn't write them down and neither did the Bow Tech.) shorten my draw length and drop my poundage. NEVER AGAIN! I even had to go back to the photos that Kitty took of us shooting at the Olympic Grounds in Sydney. I found a close up of my cams as to where they were set for the Bow Tech. to put them back correctly. Another 6 months later I started feeling my old form coming back and seeing that old 2004 Hoyt SierraTec hitting the target again...and again...Finally!
So Tuesday night I just smiled when he had to hand me my 2nd. place finish in our monthly archery league finals....with my short draw and lite poundage!!

Keeping It Simple to Perfect My Shot!*
.


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *Glad you are back Swami....
> I have missed your sage knowledge and words of wisdom....
> .
> Regrettably, last year I took the suggestion of a experienced archer/bow tech. to lengthen my draw and increase my poundage to improve my scores. After 6 months I saw no improvement and more frustration with shots off of the paper! So I have struggled to get my bow back into my old specs. (Stupid me I didn't write them down and neither did the Bow Tech.) shorten my draw length and drop my poundage. NEVER AGAIN! I even had to go back to the photos that Kitty took of us shooting at the Olympic Grounds in Sydney. I found a close up of my cams as to where they were set for the Bow Tech. to put them back correctly. Another 6 months later I started feeling my old form coming back and seeing that old 2004 Hoyt SierraTec hitting the target again...and again...Finally!
> ...


Good Shooting!!

There is only one draw length to use. Only the shooter really knows when the draw length is correct if they know what they are doing. You want the slowest, smallest float with your sight picture at full draw. Once you have that, you will not improve by making your draw length longer or shorter.

Get that stuff measured and logged in your bow setup book Lucky!!


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

The Swami said:


> Good Shooting!!
> 
> There is only one draw length to use. Only the shooter really knows when the draw length is correct if they know what they are doing. You want the slowest, smallest float with your sight picture at full draw. Once you have that, you will not improve by making your draw length longer or shorter.
> 
> Get that stuff measured and logged in your bow setup book Lucky!!



*Yep....I had it all together and each shot felt comfortable when every step was followed...I've got everything recorded again except my exact draw length.
I know mine is shorter than the recommended length, but it is what works for me. 
Do you have that diagram or can you just tell me the location of the two points to measure from? 

Thanks!*


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Holy smokes my curly fry buddy is alive [emoji12]

Target distance doesn't bother me at all... don't care other then I know if I'm focused I'm gonna smoke the close ones. But I'm capable of dropping a 20 on every target on the range. There isn't a time I step to a peg and think oh no the 80... or the 60 etc. I actually love to shoot those 2 for example. I usually 20 them. Drop most of my points on the targets I shouldn't. Like the closer ones on the 45wu. Or give one away on the 35f. Or have a brain fart and try and force a shot on a 25. Or get lazy on the 45 because I already have 3 in the dot and miss the last one. 

As for toughest target for me...it has to be the 30 simply because the dot is tiny so the margin of error is pretty much non existent. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *Yep....I had it all together and each shot felt comfortable when every step was followed...I've got everything recorded again except my exact draw length.
> I know mine is shorter than the recommended length, but it is what works for me.
> Do you have that diagram or can you just tell me the location of the two points to measure from?
> 
> Thanks!*


Measure your true draw. At full draw, measure from the throat of the nock on the string to the center of the berger hole that lines up perfectly vertical from the deepest part of your grip.


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> Holy smokes my curly fry buddy is alive [emoji12]
> 
> Target distance doesn't bother me at all... don't care other then I know if I'm focused I'm gonna smoke the close ones. But I'm capable of dropping a 20 on every target on the range. There isn't a time I step to a peg and think oh no the 80... or the 60 etc. I actually love to shoot those 2 for example. I usually 20 them. Drop most of my points on the targets I shouldn't. Like the closer ones on the 45wu. Or give one away on the 35f. Or have a brain fart and try and force a shot on a 25. Or get lazy on the 45 because I already have 3 in the dot and miss the last one.
> 
> ...


Or course I am alive! Glad to see you still around and shooting.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

The Swami said:


> Measure your true draw. At full draw, measure from the throat of the nock on the string to the center of the berger hole that lines up perfectly vertical from the deepest part of your grip.


*

THANKS!!
Have a Great Weekend...*


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Late to the topic, but I've calculated the difficulty of each shot on a Field/Hunter, based on the spot size and the distance, converted into how many degrees the arrow can be from dead center, and still catch the spot in any direction. The hardest shot on the course, as expected, is the 80yd shot on the 80WU, which permits the archer to be a maximum of 0.0534 degrees from perfect and still jar lick a spot (based on a .25" dia shaft) The easiest is the 20 foot peep/bunny, where the archer can miss by 0.2178 degrees and still score a 5.

The 6 most difficult individual *shots*, beginning with the hardest are: 80, 70, 53, 65, 50, 64, 48yds.
The 6 most difficult *targets* ranked the same way are: 80WU, 65, 50, 70WU, 48, 60, based on the average difficulty of each of the 4 shots on the target.

Full spreadsheet below, Field shown in white, Hunter shown shaded.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

You the man Nestly...... love it.


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## V-STROM 650 (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks for the data Nestly! This is a bit surprising to me because for all the years I've shot Field I would have put the "dirty thirty" ahead in difficulty over several of these...like the 55 yd and the 45 yd. Shows what fun this "mind game" is...


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## dutchy_919 (Mar 27, 2019)

that damn 50 and the first shot of the 53 walk!


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