# Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review >>--------->



## ontarget7

Here are few pics to tide you over before I get started on setup. I will give you the full breakdown, from start to finish, including fine tuning with bareshafts and what it takes to get you to that point. 























































The first thing you will notice right off the bat is the overall balance of the bow and the overall light feel to it, even coming in at 4# it just felt lighter. 




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## chaded

Sweet.


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## ontarget7

Would like to make a note on bow finish. Hoyt has taken some heat for their finishes in the past and I know this is a Blackout model but you would be hard pressed to find a flaw in the finish or machining on this one. 

Got guys asking how the Smackdown is tuning on the new Hoyt's so figured I would make it appoint and see how things go with it. 










This one in particular I have already modified before to make it more friendly to clean vertical nock travel while still achieving desired cam synch. You will see in the pic below, where the red stop bar is, I have added a couple layers of heat shrink tube to give the launcher more of an angle in the upright position 











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## zekezoe

I thought you were going with a turbo?


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## ontarget7

zekezoe said:


> I thought you were going with a turbo?


I will have a turbo also and will do the full review with it as well. 


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## ontarget7

Draw length is coming in 28 1/8" and you could easily tweak it plus or minis 1/8" one way or another. 











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## ontarget7

Here is a pic of the new fingers to fit the new Hoyt's 

You could see just by the pic how much safer it fits the limbs and the added safety of the white nylon bushings for limb support. 











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## doecollector

Shane- have you seen any issues with bottom cam lean on this bow? I have seen a couple with this issue including a hyper edge.


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## AK&HIboy

Look forward to reading more Shane.Curious about the TT smackdown pro as well, I just bought one.


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## AR&BOW

In for the fun.


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## Murdahjah

Tag


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## ontarget7

doecollector said:


> Shane- have you seen any issues with bottom cam lean on this bow? I have seen a couple with this issue including a hyper edge.


Just going through the first look over on the draw board etc, I do feel it can be tweaked. Right now it's hitting towards the outer edge of the cable stop at full draw. 

Will tune things initially as is and see where we end up to get perfect bareshaft results. Then I will tweak the spacers and do the process again to get bareshafts perfect with fletched. From there I will discuss what I prefer and why I would leave it in a particular setting vs another. 




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## ontarget7

AK&HIboy said:


> Look forward to reading more Shane.Curious about the TT smackdown pro as well, I just bought one.


Just got done mounting the rest. Not sure if your going to limbs or not but I will start off going to the down cable with this one, since I still prefer cable driven. When I get a chance I will go to limb driven as well. 


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## Jaliv92

That bow in black looks killer.


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## Bowhuntertim

ontarget7 said:


> Just got done mounting the rest. Not sure if your going to limbs or not but I will start off going to the down cable with this one, since I still prefer cable driven. When I get a chance I will go to limb driven as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't mean to stray too far off topic but could you elaborate on why you prefer cable driven over limb? I'm just curious as I've used both and would like to hear your opinion on it.


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## ontarget7

Bowhuntertim said:


> I don't mean to stray too far off topic but could you elaborate on why you prefer cable driven over limb? I'm just curious as I've used both and would like to hear your opinion on it.


Personal preference. For me it's quieter without the long cord and have found zero issues from a tuning standpoint 


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## bornagain

All in


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## Hornman

Shane have you shot a carbon Defiant yet? Just wondering about comparison on vibe and feel on shot. I think they are both great bows.....but wondering if the Carbon is worth the extra coin??


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## ontarget7

Hornman said:


> Shane have you shot a carbon Defiant yet? Just wondering about comparison on vibe and feel on shot. I think they are both great bows.....but wondering if the Carbon is worth the extra coin??


Yes, I have shot the Carbon 31, sweet shooter for sure. The carbon has a different feel altogether than aluminum and really comes down to personal preference. I have owned all the carbon risers from Hoyt, up until last year. Stuck with the Nitrum Turbo with zero regrets 


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## Hornman

Shane have you shot a carbon Defiant yet? Just wondering about comparison on vibe and feel on shot. I think they are both great bows.....but wondering if the Carbon is worth the extra coin??


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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

Here is my initial specs to start my tuning process. 

#2 cam in the E slot 28" / 72.5#
436 gr Easton Carbon Injexion 330 spine with 2 D6 HIT inserts up front and 100 gr tip

Currently top cam is hitting just under 1/16 ahead of the bottom at full draw. Pre lean with an arrow running down the left side of the top cam is splitting the string at nocking point. 

Centershot is 3/4" just off the front leading edge of the riser just above the rubber pad. 

Nock height is sitting dead nuts nock level / 90* from the string 

Here is a view pics to go with the above info








































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## Hornman

Ya I've always liked the feel of the carbon....especially be nice on cold weather hunts. Never have dropped the money on one yet though.


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## ontarget7

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## Clocked92

Sub'd for updates


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## ontarget7

Here is a pic at full draw of where the cable is contacting the draw stop peg. You can see it's definitely on the outer edge. We will leave it as is for now and see where we end up for settings to get perfect bareshaft flight. 











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## 4IDARCHER

Wishing I would of never sold my Black Defiant now.
I am thinking a black turbo might have to serve as a replacement. I am curious as to the speeds you get out of a hunting setup. I have always wondered if I could get that #2 cam and get it to stretch out to 28.5 to get max performance out of it.


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## BowupBuckdown

Hey Shane, thanks for the info so far. CAN these limbs be pressed without the adapters? I know they are recommended, did you check and see how the bow rests in the normal fingers? If you get time, could you take a picture?


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## Clocked92

I'm looking to order a new defiant but I keep reading more and more about severe bottom cam lean. Hopefully you get it sorted out once it's all tuned.


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## ontarget7

BowupBuckdown said:


> Hey Shane, thanks for the info so far. CAN these limbs be pressed without the adapters? I know they are recommended, did you check and see how the bow rests in the normal fingers? If you get time, could you take a picture?


You bet ! 
As you can see in the pic between the two, why the fingers were made. The EZ Press is probably the most widely used press in the pro shops today and due to this, the fingers were inevitable. I would not attempt to press them with the standard fingers. 




















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## BowupBuckdown

Thank you sir!


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## HoosierArcher88

Beautiful bow, can't wait to see the remainder of the review.


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## ontarget7

Clocked92 said:


> I'm looking to order a new defiant but I keep reading more and more about severe bottom cam lean. Hopefully you get it sorted out once it's all tuned.


Your not going to eliminate cam lean, it's the nature of the beast. However, with that said, it can easily be controlled and modified. Personally, I don't consider swapping spacers with any bow to be a deal breaker. 

I will walk you through the steps on how we can control cam lean and the effects it has one way or another on tuning. If this particular cam system had zero lean in the bottom cam, the cable would more than likely hit and rub your draw stop peg before coming to full draw. This is not something you want so some cam lean is needed. 

You have generally two choices when tuning. One being very little lean at brace and more at full draw. Or you will have a little more lean at brace and not as much at full draw. I usually like to see some lean at brace and a little less at full draw, you might call it a happy medium. 

Either way, I will post the results both ways and I am pretty confident, either method you choose with bottom cam lean, the same end results will be accomplished 


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## brokenarrow81

Subscribed...every time I see a blackout I'm like wow! Then I get cold feet and always get camo ha


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## ChizCRX35

i hope this goes well.....i ordered one a few weeks ago


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## ChizCRX35

i hope this goes well.....i ordered one a few weeks ago


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## PPope

Sub


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## Mallardbreath

4IDARCHER said:


> Wishing I would of never sold my Black Defiant now.
> I am thinking a black turbo might have to serve as a replacement. I am curious as to the speeds you get out of a hunting setup. I have always wondered if I could get that #2 cam and get it to stretch out to 28.5 to get max performance out of it.


You bought one and sold it already????!


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## Bowhuntertim

Mallardbreath said:


> You bought one and sold it already????!


Haha, that's what I was thinking.


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## ChizCRX35

i was too, although i admit i have little room to talk on this topic....


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## ontarget7

Here is my first shots with a fletched and bareshaft at 20 yards. You will see two pics, the first one show both very parallel from one to another. This tells me nock height is very close, as well as cam synch. The other pic is an indication I have to much induced lean into the top cam. 
To correct this, I am going to add 1/2 twist to the right side and take out 1/2 out of the left side yoke. 




















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## Mathias

I have to say Shane, you have this stuff down!
Defiant 30 is on my need to shoot list too.


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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

Ok
After putting one full twist in the right side and 1/2 twist out of the left, these are the results. 

You can see I still have a very slight tail high still and that is with cams synched dead nuts the same. 









You can see in this pic my tail left and right is perfect and entering perfectly straight with fletched. 









I am already running high in the Berger hole so don't feel changing this would do much to the slight tail high. Through paper it's a bullet hole but I'm anal and that tail high would mean bareshafts lower than fletched the farther you go back past 20 yards. For all practical purposes most would call it good. 

Maybe the TT rest as I have had similar issues before with tail high bareshaft ?

Here is that pic with draw stop peg making contact to the outside edge. As you can see, the bottom cam has little effect when it comes to cam lean and your end results. 













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## BowupBuckdown

So the extra half twist on the right yoke was to cause the top draw stop to hit sooner than the bottom, alleviating the nock high problem? Just trying to follow your process


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## ontarget7

BowupBuckdown said:


> So the extra half twist on the right yoke was to cause the top draw stop to hit sooner than the bottom, alleviating the nock high problem? Just trying to follow your process


Sorry, correction

I took one full twist out of the left side. 


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## ontarget7

Cams are dead nuts the same at full draw now. 

I will add, with the added tension on the cables with the new design even with cams hitting the same the chrono reading from one to another, while pulling into the wall has very little change in speed readings. I am getting .4 fps difference at best from a firm hold into the wall vs a normal hold into the wall. 
This is a great sign that has some value, to me anyways. It shows me that your vertical group spread will stay tight down range with cams hitting the same. 

In years past to close the gap in chrono readings you would always have to have top cam ahead to have similar results in the 30" ATA models. 




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## jmt870

I'm curious to know how much vibration you are seeing in the bow. Seems to be mixed reviews. Some say it's dead. Others say they experienced significant vibration. Thanks


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## bowhuntermitch

ontarget7 said:


> Ok
> After putting one full twist in the right side and 1/2 twist out of the left, these are the results.
> 
> You can see I still have a very slight tail high still and that is with cams synched dead nuts the same.
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> You can see in this pic my tail left and right is perfect and entering perfectly straight with fletched.
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> I am already running high in the Berger hole so don't feel changing this would do much to the slight tail high. Through paper it's a bullet hole but I'm anal and that tail high would mean bareshafts lower than fletched the farther you go back past 20 yards. For all practical purposes most would call it good.
> 
> Maybe the TT rest as I have had similar issues before with tail high bareshaft ?
> 
> Here is that pic with draw stop peg making contact to the outside edge. As you can see, the bottom cam has little effect when it comes to cam lean and your end results.
> 
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


With your tiny tail high, could you move the nock down, say 1/64" being your high in the berger already?


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## ontarget7

bowhuntermitch said:


> With your tiny tail high, could you move the nock down, say 1/64" being your high in the berger already?


You could but for me personally, I don't ever prefer a nock low setting. It can create some fletching clearance issues and prefer not to go that route. 

Going to switch out the TT and duplicate the same setting, then see what results I get. 


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## bowhuntermitch

ontarget7 said:


> You could but for me personally, I don't ever prefer a nock low setting. It can create some fletching clearance issues and prefer not to go that route.
> 
> Going to switch out the TT and duplicate the same setting, then see what results I get.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Should be interesting to see what it gives you. :thumbs_up


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## ontarget7

jmt870 said:


> I'm curious to know how much vibration you are seeing in the bow. Seems to be mixed reviews. Some say it's dead. Others say they experienced significant vibration. Thanks


The varying results comes from shops not re timing the cams when changing draw length. When these cams are timed you literally don't feel anything on the shot. Without question the best feeling Hoyt's to date. 


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## Putt4Doe

Tagged - looking forward to reading the full tune


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## ontarget7

K, it took me a little to get there and I will explain later after I gather my notes together but I am at perfect results with no swapping spacers. 

Settings are pre lean is just about parallel with aim string at brace.

Centershot still 3/4" of of riser to center of shaft. 

Cam synch is dead nuts hitting the same at full draw

Bottom cam cable is hitting outer edge of draw stop peg still









This puts bottom cam pretty parallel with aim string at brace, thus giving it a fair amount of lean at full draw. 

Now with that said, it can be tuned with perfect results so don't let cam lean feed into your head. 

I did fix the tail high with bareshafts low at 20 yards and will discuss that more in detail. 
Just want to make sure I am positive on my findings before I elaborate on it. 

Either way in the current settings, the results are very repeatable



















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## ericbhall1984

Great review again ontarget! Your reviews are the best. This is what we really want to see for a review. I like to see the steps you take to tune different bows, with different cable systems. I also like to hear your opinions, and why you do, or like certain things. Thanks for taking the time to do these reviews. 

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## brokenarrow81

beautiful! whats the bow max at now that its in tune and did draw length change overall?


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## Smiley1215

Great review, one can learn alot from reading your write ups and understandings of how a bow reacts and works to different settings. I thoroughly enjoy your info and appreciate the time you put in for all archers.


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## kennedy3627

Thanks for the review on target. I have been looking into getting a defiant 34


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## Jboss2

Now I want one, thanks!

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## Kaveman44

tagged for my Defiant Turbo on order, thanks ontarget


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## TRUE HUNT

Hey Shane thanks for your time and post tons of info you give. Anyway how do you like the new cam system as of 30" feels like so 33". I like the fact you can change draw in 2 sec. and not have to order mods. I can't wait till your Turbo review. You did say the finish is very nice wonder if that's why rep told my shop carbons will be some time.


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## ontarget7

OK guys, here is another scenario if you choose to induce a little lean at brace in bottom cam and have the cable hitting more center of draw stop peg









I shimmed the cam out away from riser so I moved the white spacer to the riser side and the black spacer to the outside. Now from factory there was a slight gap that I wanted to fill so I took the fiber spacer out and replaced it with a .020 spacer which was smaller than the fiber spacer. 









This left me room to add another .020 spacer to make up that slight gap, which was probably only .010. Now when it came time to fit the other eclip on the factory one was to tight. I happened to have a slimmer eclip that fit perfect. Now the .010 very small gap is closed up and ready to roll. 

This new position of the bottom cam led the way for a 13/16 centershot and top cam pre lean very close to parallel with aim string at brace. Slightly more than previous setting. 

Nock height is dead level and cams synched dead nuts at the same time. 

Here is the end results in this setting










Still testing the tail high bareshaft low reaction I was having initially. 

Been through 3 rest and same condition each time.

I have corrected this but still testing to see if it holds true before I post my findings on the correction. 


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## maxxis312

Tagged


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## huntertroy

Curious, what was the results of the shafts if you left center shot at 3/4" and could you of left it at 3/4 and tuned with yokes


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## ontarget7

huntertroy said:


> Curious, what was the results of the shafts if you left center shot at 3/4" and could you of left it at 3/4 and tuned with yokes


Good question ! 

I would have to choose between negative cam lean at brace or moving the rest to 13/16 do to the tail right bareshaft left condition 


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## ontarget7

ontarget7 said:


> OK guys, here is another scenario if you choose to induce a little lean at brace in bottom cam and have the cable hitting more center of draw stop peg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I shimmed the cam out away from riser so I moved the white spacer to the riser side and the black spacer to the outside. Now from factory there was a slight gap that I wanted to fill so I took the fiber spacer out and replaced it with a .020 spacer which was smaller than the fiber spacer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This left me room to add another .020 spacer to make up that slight gap, which was probably only .010. Now when it came time to fit the other eclip on the factory one was to tight. I happened to have a slimmer eclip that fit perfect. Now the .010 very small gap is closed up and ready to roll.
> 
> This new position of the bottom cam led the way for a 13/16 centershot and top cam pre lean very close to parallel with aim string at brace. Slightly more than previous setting.
> 
> Nock height is dead level and cams synched dead nuts at the same time.
> 
> Here is the end results in this setting
> 
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> Still testing the tail high bareshaft low reaction I was having initially.
> 
> Been through 3 rest and same condition each time.
> 
> I have corrected this but still testing to see if it holds true before I post my findings on the correction.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would like to add to this

The .010 gap that was in the spacers had zero effect laterally with bareshafts, they stayed very consistent and repeatable. Honestly, I would have no problem shooting it in that first setting


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## 573mms

Have you got any chrono numbers yet?


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## ontarget7

573mms said:


> Have you got any chrono numbers yet?


As it stands right now

Hoyt Defiant 30 #2 cam E slot 28" [email protected] 72# with a 436 gr arrow, loop and peep











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## HoosierArcher88

Shewee that's get'n it! any comments/experience on the addition of the limb stop this year? Sorry if that's a redundant question if I missed the answer all ready.


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## huntertroy

Shane, when ever you get to it can you explain how to set the limb stop if you choose to use one. Im thinking after you have cable stops set where you want them you would need a draw board to set limb stop while bow is at full draw. Thank you


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## Flonuzzo

tagged


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## ontarget7

HoosierArcher88 said:


> Shewee that's get'n it! any comments/experience on the addition of the limb stop this year? Sorry if that's a redundant question if I missed the answer all ready.





huntertroy said:


> Shane, when ever you get to it can you explain how to set the limb stop if you choose to use one. Im thinking after you have cable stops set where you want them you would need a draw board to set limb stop while bow is at full draw. Thank you


I will be covering this as well. Keep you posted on the results. 

I will also elaborate more on the rotating mods and what needs to be done to keep cams in synch when changing draw length etc. also speed numbers in the shorter draw length positions. 


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## jdrhoads

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*



ontarget7 said:


> 573mms said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you got any chrono numbers yet?
> 
> 
> 
> As it stands right now
> 
> Hoyt Defiant 30 #2 cam E slot 28" [email protected] 72# with a 436 gr arrow, loop and peep
> 
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


That puts IBO right at 331 by my calculations. Right where it should be. I don't think we will see bows exceeding IBO a lot like we did with the RKT and even Z5 cams because of the more round cam profile.


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## EverestWC

Thanks for the write-up. I would love to be able to do my own work. Seems like a lot to learn. I have a Harvest Defiant 30 on order.


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## TundraArcher

Not the best pics, but my setup is running with the top cam just a 1/16" ahead, cam lean with the arrow splitting the string at the nocking point and the rest right between 3/4" and 13/16". Zero vibration and my favorite hoyt hunting bow thus far. It's a sweet shooter!


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## ontarget7

You might want to refigure your calcs 

436 gr arrow - 350 = 86
86 divided by 3 = 27
28" draw is another 20 fps
Weight on string 7 fps

So you take 27 + 20 + 7 = 54

Add 54 to 288 fps = 340-342 IBO equivalent speed calculations


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## brokenarrow81

I agree and saw IBO to be 341. Maybe its the #2 cam but thats quite a bit faster on a similar setup to my nitrum.
Need to tweak some because limbs never made spec wt when I tuned but wasnt really worried
62lbs 29.5" mods and 430gr axis had me at 278
the nitrum still met its rating at those specs but this is showing the new defiant to be faster...but again never really paid much attention to #2 cam speeds because I'm always a 29.5" mod in a #3

Liking what I see. Great write up! This is why I wish shops would actually check bows before handing them over to shoot. Cam sync changes everything in the feel of a bow but most times I test a bow the can sync is off 99% of the time.


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## kscumminsdriver

so I'm looking at a Carbon Defiant 34 to replace my Faktor 34... I'm a 27" DL guy so would I be better off with a #1 cam in the E position or a #2 cam in the A position.


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## GutxPile

kscumminsdriver said:


> so I'm looking at a Carbon Defiant 34 to replace my Faktor 34... I'm a 27" DL guy so would I be better off with a #1 cam in the E position or a #2 cam in the A position.


I know I'm not Shane, but you are correct. You will be better off with the #1 cam


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## ontarget7

Yep, the #2 cam is always hotter and generally makes really good speeds. 

So far, I am very impressed with the new line up. I see improvements across the board. They are quieter, pretty much zero hand shock, smoother draw while maintaining equal speeds of the Z5 cams, firmer backwall and hold on target are all upgrades IMO. 

I will post my findings to correct the tail high bareshaft low condition at 20 yards here shortly. I'm pretty confident in the results I have gotten to clean that up in both settings I talked about. 


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## ontarget7

kscumminsdriver said:


> so I'm looking at a Carbon Defiant 34 to replace my Faktor 34... I'm a 27" DL guy so would I be better off with a #1 cam in the E position or a #2 cam in the A position.





GutxPile said:


> I know I'm not Shane, but you are correct. You will be better off with the #1 cam
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is correct. If it were me and wanted the most out of the system I would go with the #1 cam E slot. Performance wise is very comparable to the #2 cam


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## GutxPile

You are making the wait for my Defiant 34 excruciating. I have a ship date of 12/4. I hope that actually happens?


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## 573mms

I didn't like the looks of these bows at first, in the pics. But that black bow looks really good and those cams look really smooth and easy on the shoulders. I need to get to the shop and shoot one for myself.


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## dwagoner

ontarget7 said:


> You might want to refigure your calcs
> 
> 436 gr arrow - 350 = 86
> 86 divided by 3 = 27
> 28" draw is another 20 fps
> Weight on string 7 fps
> 
> So you take 27 + 20 + 7 = 54
> 
> Add 54 to 288 fps = 340-342 IBO equivalent speed calculations
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


try taking the peep out and see if it even changes speed more than a few fps.... you cant just assume it always slows bow down by 7fps... it doesnt do that on all bows... my prime had 0 diff with and without peep... 

Try it... bet you see it doesnt change really, maybe few fps


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## 4IDARCHER

Mallardbreath said:


> You bought one and sold it already????!


Yep, and someone on here got an awesome deal. Think a defiant turbo will be next.


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## jmack73

4IDARCHER said:


> Yep, and someone on here got an awesome deal. Think a defiant turbo will be next.


I'm going to be selling my Defiant 30 in about two weeks to move to my Turbo so there will be another great deal to be had!


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## huntertroy

What is the brace height on the #2 cam ?


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## ontarget7

dwagoner said:


> try taking the peep out and see if it even changes speed more than a few fps.... you cant just assume it always slows bow down by 7fps... it doesnt do that on all bows... my prime had 0 diff with and without peep...
> 
> Try it... bet you see it doesnt change really, maybe few fps


I have said this years ago. Peeps and loops vary on how they react to different bows and how they are designed. Some bows loose speed some bows don't. 

However for the sack of argument and keeping things the same across the board I will stay with what is most widely used for calculated IBO speed comparison. Did the same with the Halon6, so keeping it the same with all the other reviews, so it's an apples to apples comparison per say. 

Halon6 came in at a 344 IBO equivalent calculated speed

Defiant 20 #2 cam E slot 340 IBO equivalent calculated speed

They are shooting within 4 fps of each other 


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## ontarget7

huntertroy said:


> What is the brace height on the #2 cam ?


6 3/4" Brace


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## deer310sg

Shane' I shoot 50 lb maxed out with #2 cam. Just wondering if I stepped up to 60 lb limbs that the new cam will allow me to do that?

I know I need too shoot. Is the draw that much better than the z5?


----------



## ontarget7

Ok, going to elaborate more on the tail high bareshaft low at 20 yards I was getting pretty consistent across the board with 3 different rests, the TT Smackdown, AXT Recon / AAE, and the HDX. The pics I posted were very slight but to get to that I just about had to have all low wrist completely off the bow, almost like shooting some recurves back in the day. 

This had me a little confused for awhile, I tried running the arrow low, in the middle and high in the Berger hole with zero change, actually seemed to get worse the lower I went. This made me stay to running nock level and pretty high in the Berger hole and look for other areas that could be a possible fix. Then I went to changing the bottom draw stop peg to the smaller spiral stop thinking that would change things, nope. Last ditch effort I figured I would play with the rotating mods so I positioned the bottom rotating mod in the D position and immediately got a tail low condition due to top cam hitting well behind the bottom. So then I resynched the cams and what do you know it, perfect bareshaft results with ease I might add. It has been very repeatable in this setting and I was definitely pleased to see that take place. The bow holds so well on target for a 30" ATA, I am amazed. I would say that along with the overall balance and it being lighter than the H6 really fits in my wheel house for what I am looking for. It is driving bareshafts and fletched like a thing of beauty now, with very little conscious effort after the tuning of coarse. 

Well, as I am literally writing my finding on this and still wondering why the tail high reaction ? It dawns on me, could it be due to the design of vertical nock travel was more tailored for the limb stop peg they added this year ? Thinking through all this it might just add up and make sense. 

I am going to go back to the original settings and switch the bottom rotating mod back to the E position, re set cam synch etc, add limb stop and see what I get for results. 




















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## fountain

You plan to shoot the 34 any?


----------



## ontarget7

fountain said:


> You plan to shoot the 34 any?


Yes sir. I have shot the 34 but have not had the opportunity for a thorough breakdown yet


----------



## wingknot

Tagged


----------



## NCBuckNBass

Shane

What would you expect the difference would be on the 34 if one was a 50-60 pound vs. a 55-65 with both set to 60? Brace difference leading to speed difference? Is it really better to shoot a bow maxed out and if so why? This bow and the K34 are the only two I've seen so far that I want to try and shoot. I normally shoot 61-62 @ 28 and realize the 60 pound model would likely go that high, but I think the 55-65 would have better resale down the road and also be more likely to find in stock around here. Also, would you expect the carbon 34 to tune the same as the aluminum 34?

Also, when you go to the last slot on the module I realize the bow gets faster on this model but does the valley also get smaller?


----------



## huntertroy

ontarget7 said:


> 6 3/4" Brace
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you feel this is the main reason the #2 is faster then the #3


----------



## bornagain

Personally Shane I do not see the Hoyt Engineers designing the nock travel around the limb stop. Of course that is just a personal opinion. IMHO I think the whole limb stop thing came from the sales department and the engineers are laughing about it considering the vast majority of target archers do not like limb stops. I really do not see Hoyt designing anything around them more likely they are taking the grocery store mentality to sell more bows, "hey if you like limb stops we offer that too". But IMHO they would of done away with the cable stops if they thought the limb stops were better but truth is they are smart enough to know, they are not.


----------



## HAvok33

Tagged for my carbon defiant 31 on order at 27.5 inch draw. This thread is really helpful thanks Shane!


----------



## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*



bornagain said:


> Personally Shane I do not see the Hoyt Engineers designing the nock travel around the limb stop. Of course that is just a personal opinion. IMHO I think the whole limb stop thing came from the sales department and the engineers are laughing about it considering the vast majority of target archers do not like limb stops. I really do not see Hoyt designing anything around them more likely they are taking the grocery store mentality to sell more bows, "hey if you like limb stops we offer that too". But IMHO they would of done away with the cable stops if they thought the limb stops were better but truth is they are smart enough to know, they are not.


Agreed but it was worth a try and did not change the tail high bareshaft low impact at 20 yards. 

Now it might get interesting 

I sent a 400 spine down range and got a tail low bareshaft high. [emoji2] With cam hitting at the same time and nock level. 

Now I don't have many 400 spine arrows on hand but will see what I can come up with over the weekend. 

Could it be a stiff reaction and this design very friendly to softer spine ? 

This would be a first and not necessarily a bad thing. Would definitely give you way more room to play with tip weight etc 


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## Bbd16

I


ontarget7 said:


> Agreed but it was worth a try and did not change the tail high bareshaft low impact at 20 yards.
> 
> Now it might get interesting
> 
> I sent a 400 spine down range and got a tail low bareshaft high. [emoji2] With cam hitting at the same time and nock level.
> 
> Now I don't have many 400 spine arrows on hand but will see what I can come up with over the weekend.
> 
> Could it be a stiff reaction and this design very friendly to softer spine ?
> 
> This would be a first and not necessarily a bad thing. Would definitely give you way more room to play with tip weight etc
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm thinking your same set up with one insert instead 2 would do the trick!


----------



## ontarget7

Disregard the 400 spine false reading and had to readjust, still bareshaft tail high and impact low. 

Now, I just want to be clear. I am only referring to bareshaft tuning right now. I can get a bullet hole through paper and fletched with no problem. It's just the fine tuning with bareshafts I am trying to hash out. 

For what it's worth I have been testing over the last few years a tail high bareshaft low condition. To see what kind of effect it has down range. Now lateral nock conditions, those play a big role in down range drifts from left to right. Not so sure the vertical impact is as important. I have a hard time saying this because I always strive for perfect results with a bareshaft but after shooting groups like this one with a tail high condition it made me wonder and led to more testing

http://youtu.be/czR-kjqKD7M

The tune with the bow above had bareshafts hitting 2"- 3" low at 20 yards tail high, go figure LOL


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## nismomike

Shane, can adding more speed nocks slow down the cam enough to clean that up the same way it did on my Turbo?


----------



## GROSEN

tagged


----------



## nismomike

Did they keep the grip location in the same possition as last years Nitrum?


----------



## ontarget7

Ok, I am relieved and have found the issue. 
Settings as it should be
Cam synched dead on the same
Nock dead nuts level
Mod settings are both in the appropriate E slot. 

Very repeatable results shot after shot




















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## golfernash

What did you change?


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## ontarget7

Well after taking a break to think through things, The Lord put it in my mind to check my form, my release shoulder specifically. So I proceeded to shoot another one just like I normally was and had the same reaction










I then consciously made an effort to lower my release shoulder, keeping it more in line with my front and the two more parallel with the floor. The results have been the same shot after shot so definitely not a coincidence. The minute I go back to a higher shoulder the tail high bareshaft low at 20 comes right back. 

This is why it is critical when things just get you puzzled it might benefit to analyze yourself, whether that is grip / form etc. The extra effort and end results just might payoff. 

Keep you posted with more info over the next few day. 

Honestly, amazed it made that much of a difference. 













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## ontarget7

nismomike said:


> Did they keep the grip location in the same possition as last years Nitrum?


Yes
Carbons are now the same as aluminum series as well


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## 573mms

So the 331fps ibo Hoyt is only 4fps slower than the 343fps Mathews?


----------



## Schmoke

Can you give the overall length and width of it? I'm waiting for mine to show up at my local shop and figure I'd start looking at hard cases. Guessing it would fit in a SKB 3614 but not sure how long the ATA plus cams is going to be, hopefully under 35"X14" overall.


----------



## whack n stack

ontarget7 said:


> Disregard the 400 spine false reading and had to readjust, still bareshaft tail high and impact low.
> 
> Now, I just want to be clear. I am only referring to bareshaft tuning right now. I can get a bullet hole through paper and fletched with no problem. It's just the fine tuning with bareshafts I am trying to hash out.
> 
> For what it's worth I have been testing over the last few years a tail high bareshaft low condition. To see what kind of effect it has down range. Now lateral nock conditions, those play a big role in down range drifts from left to right. Not so sure the vertical impact is as important. I have a hard time saying this because I always strive for perfect results with a bareshaft but after shooting groups like this one with a tail high condition it made me wonder and led to more testing
> 
> http://youtu.be/czR-kjqKD7M
> 
> The tune with the bow above had bareshafts hitting 2"- 3" low at 20 yards tail high, go figure LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree on the vertical nock travel assessment of downrange accuracy. I had a Nitrum 30 and experimented with tail high and broadheads. I shot muzzys (MX3) and field tips. If I remember right, the bow I tested had a 2" low impact at 20 yards. The muzzys and field tips flew well and to the same poi at 40 yards.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## ontarget7

573mms said:


> So the 331fps ibo Hoyt is only 4fps slower than the 343fps Mathews?


That is correct in the #2 cam E slot


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## ontarget7

Schmoke said:


> Can you give the overall length and width of it? I'm waiting for mine to show up at my local shop and figure I'd start looking at hard cases. Guessing it would fit in a SKB 3614 but not sure how long the ATA plus cams is going to be, hopefully under 35"X14" overall.


I will get that to you tomorrow 


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## ontarget7

whack n stack said:


> I agree on the vertical nock travel assessment of downrange accuracy. I had a Nitrum 30 and experimented with tail high and broadheads. I shot muzzys (MX3) and field tips. If I remember right, the bow I tested had a 2" low impact at 20 yards. The muzzys and field tips flew well and to the same poi at 40 yards.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Glad to see you have had similar results. Have tested this quite a bit the last few years and still scratch my head why it's more forgiving to vertical nock travel opposed to lateral. 


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## whack n stack

ontarget7 said:


> Glad to see you have had similar results. Have tested this quite a bit the last few years and still scratch my head why it's more forgiving to vertical nock travel opposed to lateral.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I cannot figure why it works with a vertical shaft either. I wish I owned a high speed camera, that's for sure.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


----------



## NCAVI8TOR

Stock strings look good? BCY X? 

NC


----------



## MELLY-MEL

Lookin good bro


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## fountain

How does it feel with the limb stop?


----------



## Kaveman44

what draw length is the #2 cam on the e slot? i ordered a defiant Turbo and i am a 29 draw length and i went with the # 3 cam, should i have gone with the # 2?


----------



## Clocked92

I am right on the edge between #2 Cam and #3 cam. I'm looking to order a 30 or a Turbo here in the next couple weeks. I would love to know the difference in feel between the #2 cam and #3 cam on both of these bows if anyone has some insight.


----------



## Clocked92

Kaveman44 said:


> what draw length is the #2 cam on the e slot? i ordered a defiant Turbo and i am a 29 draw length and i went with the # 3 cam, should i have gone with the # 2?


I believe the Turbo #2 cam is 26-28" so you had to go with the #3 cam to get 29" draw length.


----------



## ontarget7

NCAVI8TOR said:


> Stock strings look good? BCY X?
> 
> NC


Stock strings on this bow need some attention

The centerserving is not served tight enough and the need to get their overall diameter down especially at the CC that wraps around the bottom cam


----------



## ontarget7

fountain said:


> How does it feel with the limb stop?


 Still quite a few things to cover but I will get to them throughout the weekend, as well as next week. The limb stop will be included in that

Having issues with TapaTalk with all the website changes and not always by a desktop so bare with me


----------



## ontarget7

Kaveman44 said:


> what draw length is the #2 cam on the e slot? i ordered a defiant Turbo and i am a 29 draw length and i went with the # 3 cam, should i have gone with the # 2?


Depends if you want more valley or the most performance

When wanting the most valley and let-off you would want the A slot in a cam and the most speed and performance the E slot.


----------



## BuckeyeRed

What cam settings are they ibo rated at? #3 E?


----------



## ontarget7

BuckeyeRed said:


> What cam settings are they ibo tested at? #3 E?


Yep, #3 cam in the E slot and the reason why you will see the speed ratings as they are. In general in that setting you will see maybe 2-3 fps above rating. 

The #2 and #3 cam will exceed that


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## Schmoke

Was wondering if you had time to get the overall dimensions yet? Not trying to be a pain, I know your busy, just found a decent deal on a couple cases and was going to place a black friday order if it will fit.


----------



## ontarget7

Schmoke said:


> Was wondering if you had time to get the overall dimensions yet? Not trying to be a pain, I know your busy, just found a decent deal on a couple cases and was going to place a black friday order if it will fit.


Tight dimensions

13"x34"


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## Schmoke

Thank you, just got a steal on a 3614 case from optics planet. Following closely to this thread and should have mine in a week or so, hopefully.


----------



## ontarget7

Schmoke said:


> Thank you, just got a steal on a 3614 case from optics planet. Following closely to this thread and should have mine in a week or so, hopefully.


Your welcome ! 

I'm sure you will be very pleased, they are very forgiving and feel great on the shot. 

Keep the info coming for you 🏼


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## AK&HIboy

Schmoke said:


> Thank you, just got a steal on a 3614 case from optics planet. Following closely to this thread and should have mine in a week or so, hopefully.


Thanks just got a killer deal on a 4214 for 42% off!!!!!!


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## Schmoke

Awesome! Mine with coupons wound up at like 40% also, add free shipping and I couldn't pass it up. Saved $104 according to their figures.


----------



## ontarget7

First 20 yard group after tuning and sighting in 











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## AK&HIboy

Nice group,bow and lawn!


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## ontarget7

Had to bring the bow south for the family Thanksgiving get together 🏼. Little warmer over here.




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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

Little feedback on draw cycle. In short extremely smooth is all I can say. They definitely smoothed out the transition very nicely, I might add. When cams are synched properly, absolutely dead and shock free on the shot. Now I did throw the cams out of synch to compare shot feel and you do get a jumpy experience with a little bit of vibe. 




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## Schmoke

Your not helping my wait time any, can't wait to get my hands on mine.

Love the good report so far!


----------



## jdrhoads

ontarget7 said:


> You might want to refigure your calcs
> 
> 436 gr arrow - 350 = 86
> 86 divided by 3 = 27
> 28" draw is another 20 fps
> Weight on string 7 fps
> 
> So you take 27 + 20 + 7 = 54
> 
> Add 54 to 288 fps = 340-342 IBO equivalent speed calculations
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I didn't add speed for deducting the weight of the peep and loop, but you are correct with true Ibo spec and no peep or loop that does put it right at or a touch over 340. Either way its good, its hitting the listed speed with the string fully set up. Hoyt is always right in the ballpark.


----------



## Rico7

Awesome looking bow. Looking forward to your complete review. Is the reduced string angles noticeable when at full draw?


----------



## jdrhoads

Shane, what kind of speeds would you expect from the #3 in the A(28") slot? 5-6 fps slower or more than that with the new cam?


----------



## ontarget7

jdrhoads said:


> Shane, what kind of speeds would you expect from the #3 in the A(28") slot? 5-6 fps slower or more than that with the new cam?


Right at their rating to 2-3 fps over


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## swampcruiser

Shane, the million $ question-- do you feel this is much of an upgrade over thr Nitrum series or your Turbo?


----------



## ontarget7

swampcruiser said:


> Shane, the million $ question-- do you feel this is much of an upgrade over thr Nitrum series or your Turbo?


I like the draw so much I am thinking about letting my Nitrum Turbo go and replace it with a 31" carbon 80# limbs. 

The characteristics I would consider an upgrade are, draw cycle, on the shot, vibration, balance and hold on target. These areas are all upgrades to consider IMO. I was pretty set on keeping my Turbo another year but after going through the tuning process and getting in a little shoot time so far, I don't see me holding on to it anymore. 

Looking forward to dropping back at 100 yards with this one. See if I can squeeze in some video clips down range. 


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## MAXXIS31

Marked


----------



## ontarget7

Something I wanted to bring up just because you see it brought up on AT a lot, that is finding centershot. Some times you see it advised to run a arrow along the inside of the riser and matching centershot to parallel this position, it will lead you in the wrong direction and you will be shaking your head with lateral tears or tail left and right tears depending on left or right handed shooters. This would put your centershot way outside the norm. 

I listed a couple different scenarios with perfect bareshaft results and would recommend measuring of the riser, staying within the 3/4 to 13/16 range. This would put your centershot more in line and running true, within reason, of your stabilizer. 



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## nanuke22

Shane, I hope you don't mind me posting this on your thread, just got it set up, banging bare shafts at 20 yards. It is rock solid at full draw with out the limb stop. 

This was the easiest Hoyt by far to tune. Thanks for the tips...


----------



## ontarget7

nanuke22 said:


> View attachment 3304914
> 
> 
> Shane, I hope you don't mind me posting this on your thread, just got it set up, banging bare shafts at 20 yards. It is rock solid at full draw with out the limb stop.
> 
> This was the easiest Hoyt by far to tune. Thanks for the tips...


Not at all, very nice 🏼
Congrats !!

Just hoping this helps with bringing up all the different scenarios you might encounter


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## zekezoe

Shane, I sent you a pm.


----------



## ontarget7

zekezoe said:


> Shane, I sent you a pm.


PM returned 🏼


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## deer310sg

nanuke22 said:


> View attachment 3304914
> 
> 
> Shane, I hope you don't mind me posting this on your thread, just got it set up, banging bare shafts at 20 yards. It is rock solid at full draw with out the limb stop.
> 
> This was the easiest Hoyt by far to tune. Thanks for the tips...


That's one fine looking machine you have! UA camo?


----------



## nanuke22

Yes Ridge Reapor thank you!


----------



## ontarget7

nanuke22 said:


> Yes Ridge Reapor thank you!


Post up some close up pics if you don't mind ? I'm sure guys would like to see some better pics of that camo 🏼

Looks great !


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## DustyRx

Shane, based on prior experience with Hoyt's cam system how do you think the Defiant 34 will compare to the 30 speedwise? Comparing #2 cams at 27".


----------



## ontarget7

DustyRx said:


> Shane, based on prior experience with Hoyt's cam system how do you think the Defiant 34 will compare to the 30 speedwise? Comparing #2 cams at 27".


You will probably see about 5-7 fps difference between the two


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## upserman

Great reveiw Shane. I don't know if it's been discussed but is the string angle improved? Does the bow hold like a 34"" bow at full draw like advertised?


----------



## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*



upserman said:


> Great reveiw Shane. I don't know if it's been discussed but is the string angle improved? Does the bow hold like a 34"" bow at full draw like advertised?


I would say it holds like a 34" bow but the string angle is more in line with a 33" bow


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## upserman

Thanks


----------



## markman

Shane, are you running the limb stop now? Also because I got a little lost in thread, when running the limb stop, did you return to factory settings or did you still need to swap spacers around? Thanks!


----------



## ontarget7

markman said:


> Shane, are you running the limb stop now? Also because I got a little lost in thread, when running the limb stop, did you return to factory settings or did you still need to swap spacers around? Thanks!


Right now I am running it in the second setting I posted with equal end results with bareshaft as the first. 

Swapped the white spacer to the riser side and the black to the outside. This gives a little bit of pre lean on the bottom cam at brace and it gave me a paper thin gap for clearance with the draw stop peg passing by the cable, hitting more dead center of draw stop peg at full draw. 









Centershot is at 13/16 
Nock level
Pre lean just a touch and almost parallel to aim string
Cams dead nuts hitting the same

On a side note, the higher tension loads are giving good results with cam synch hitting at the same time. 

I'm currently shooting without the limb stop but will give more feedback with the limb stop throughout the week. 


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----------



## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

I will add, the above ^^^^^ gives a very neutral stance at the grip for those that don't like a lot of thumb pad into the grip. 


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## Adamsdjr

Shane, do you notice any difference in string angle between the Defiant and the Halon you recently reviewed?


----------



## ontarget7

Adamsdjr said:


> Shane, do you notice any difference in string angle between the Defiant and the Halon you recently reviewed?


I would say comparing the #2 cam on the Defiant 30 a slight edge going to the Halon6. When comparing them measuring about 7" out from grip at full draw, if there was a parallel line running with the bow the Halon6 is probably about 3/8 longer. I bet the #3 cam would be a wash


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----------



## ontarget7

Here you go a couple of quick video clips of the comparison, with both shooting a 436 gr arrow

Defiant 30 
28/72 
436 gr arrow
https://vimeo.com/147204005

Mathews Halon6
29/70.5
436 gr arrow
https://vimeo.com/147204188

As you can see for yourself doing the math or running a archery calculator there is 4-5 fps difference between the two. This is why Hoyt is conservative in their rating system and its only taking into account for the #3 cam at 30" draw. IMO Hoyt should take advantage of the speeds as you can see the comparison above. Not sure how they would do that since IBO or ATA is at 30" draw. Lots of guys out there aren't aware of the speeds they actually produce in the #2 and #1 cam compared to other competitors out there. 


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## Clocked92

Ordered my Defiant 30 in Harvest Brown and RR limbs today. Can't wait to get it. I assume I'll be reading this thread over and over again until It comes in.


----------



## ontarget7

Clocked92 said:


> Ordered my Defiant 30 in Harvest Brown and RR limbs today. Can't wait to get it. I assume I'll be reading this thread over and over again until It comes in.


You got any questions, just let me know 🏼
Congrats ! 


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----------



## Wack'EM

Thanks for the review and the detail and feedback . Got a carbon defiant 31 coming so hope to see a review on it as well . Thanks again .


----------



## ontarget7

Wack'EM said:


> Thanks for the review and the detail and feedback . Got a carbon defiant 31 coming so hope to see a review on it as well . Thanks again .


That's a sweet bow, congrats 🏼

I will more than likely have an 80# in Ridge Reaper 


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----------



## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

Ok, for those curious on the limb stops, I will be testing this later on today. I will go over what effects it has on lateral and vertical nock travel compared to without the limb stop with bareshafts and fletched flying perfect. 

For what it's worth, in my current settings which is top cam hitting ever so slightly ahead of bottom when measured on a drawboard. The initial placement of the limb stop peg matched perfect, being dead center of the letter E when I placed it so both cable stops were firm into the wall. 

So my initial take on this is when your cams are synched properly, Hoyt nailed the limb stop pegs pretty good with center of letter being center of limb stop peg. We will see if it holds true with bareshafts when I get to testing. 




















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----------



## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

Still have a slight tail high popping up with the modules in the appropriate E position on both top and bottom so I got a little side tracked trying to clean that up still, ya I know I'm picky. However, that is what drives me two always look what needs to be done to gain the most out of a system. 

Why doing this a stumbled upon a little speed increase for those guys wanting to gain the most out of the speed potential. 

28/72
436 gr arrow
Loaded string









This pushes it to a 341-342 IBO equivalent calculated speed rating


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## c5mrr270

Nice numbers. Do you expect the 34 to come in 10-11 over as well in the 2 cam e slot?


----------



## ontarget7

c5mrr270 said:


> Nice numbers. Do you expect the 34 to come in 10-11 over as well in the 2 cam e slot?


Yes I would


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----------



## ontarget7

ontarget7 said:


> Ok, for those curious on the limb stops, I will be testing this later on today. I will go over what effects it has on lateral and vertical nock travel compared to without the limb stop with bareshafts and fletched flying perfect.
> 
> For what it's worth, in my current settings which is top cam hitting ever so slightly ahead of bottom when measured on a drawboard. The initial placement of the limb stop peg matched perfect, being dead center of the letter E when I placed it so both cable stops were firm into the wall.
> 
> So my initial take on this is when your cams are synched properly, Hoyt nailed the limb stop pegs pretty good with center of letter being center of limb stop peg. We will see if it holds true with bareshafts when I get to testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I must say I am a little surprised at my findings so far with the Limb stop. Maybe it's do to having both cable and the limb stop at the top cam, it seems to maybe equalize the load on the limbs better in regards to applied pressure, whether your pulling hard or soft into the shot. It appears that the lateral nock travel is consistent regardless compared to pulling harder through the shot or softer with out the limb stop. 

Here is a photo with no limb stop and more of a normal hold into the wall. As you can see lateral entry is parallel with fletched at 20 yards









Now here is a pic with no limb stop and a hard pull through the shot. Keep in mind I am making a very conscious effort to keep grip consistent from one to the next so that is not a factor.










Now here is with limb stop and a hard pull into the wall









This one is a normal pull into the wall with limb stop 









Again pretty surprised and generally not the results on other Hybrids I have tested with just limb stops 


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## ontarget7

For me personally, I am very impressed with these findings above ^^^^^

Was not expecting that


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## Ryjax

ontarget7 said:


> For me personally, I am very impressed with these findings above ^^^^^
> 
> Was not expecting that
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That really is pretty surprising.. How's the back wall with the limb stops? Is it like an elite/obsession or slightly softer? (Meaning the bottom cam rotates a little)


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## c5mrr270

Wow, makes me wonder about the hyper edge vs. a podium as far as lateral forgiveness.


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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*



c5mrr270 said:


> Wow, makes me wonder about the hyper edge vs. a podium as far as lateral forgiveness.


The difference for me between those two is the holding weight. It's the reason I would have a hard time giving up the Podium

I can see the Hyper Edge for me as a 3D and FITA bow. Then again I would probably fair well with it indoor, just have to play with right stab weight to get the right float pattern with the higher let-off


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## saskhic

Well I stand corrected!I got too play with the new hoyts yesterday.I'm shocked I shot them all and could not resist ordering the new hyper edge was my favorite by far.I thought the speeds might not get there but they did and better.don't want to post speed because I shot through the screw in arrowspeed chrono.needless to say the draw was so amazing I had to order one.my apologies ontarget.my new hunting bow is 8 weeks out number 2 cam e slot.

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## ontarget7

No need to apologies, lots of good bows out there today, one of those being the Hoyt line up this year. Tough to not notice the improvements throughout. They really did well this year with the new line. 


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## c5mrr270

ontarget7 said:


> The difference for me between those two is the holding weight. It's the reason I would have a hard time giving up the Podium
> 
> I can see the Hyper Edge for me as a 3D and FITA bow. Then again I would probably fair well with it indoor, just have to play with right stab weight to get the right float pattern with the higher let-off
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know what you mean. I got to try a podium and a hyper edge last week and while they both held on target great the podium felt a little more locked in cause of the higher holding weight.


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## ontarget7

Couple new added features I will stay with as I do some further testing 











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## saskhic

ontarget7 said:


> No need to apologies, lots of good bows out there today, one of those being the Hoyt line up this year. Tough to not notice the improvements throughout. They really did well this year with the new line.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks.I actually cancelled my halon for this bow.I feel it will make a great 3d and hunting bow all in one.the hyper edge I mean and if I want less let off for 3d I can always add the spiral stops and change cam setting to get 65%.


ontarget7 said:


> No need to apologies, lots of good bows out there today, one of those being the Hoyt line up this year. Tough to not notice the improvements throughout. They really did well this year with the new line.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



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## saskhic

Not mine but I did order it in different color.









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## ontarget7

saskhic said:


> Not mine but I did order it in different color.
> 
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> 
> Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


Very nice !!!
Congrats 🏼


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## ontarget7

saskhic said:


> Thanks.I actually cancelled my halon for this bow.I feel it will make a great 3d and hunting bow all in one.the hyper edge I mean and if I want less let off for 3d I can always add the spiral stops and change cam setting to get 65%.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


I'm sure you will enjoy it. 
If I had room, I would have one as well 🏼


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## saskhic

The slide might be interchange to to podium not sure yet but there are grooves there.we will see.now back too the defiant.

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## ontarget7

I will compare speeds the beginning of the week in the A slot to see how efficiency is holding true in the different draw lengths on the Defiant 30. 



















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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

I have been shooting the Defiant 3O back to back with the Halon and I would have to give the edge to the Defiant for hold on target. It just seems to find it's spot easier. 

I must say to my surprise I am liking the limb stop so far. Didn't think I would be saying that LOL. When set at full draw so cables stops are firm into the wall I find it performing very well with very little deviation from left and right bareshafts still. Should do really well, long range with less left to right misses. 


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## ontarget7

Very impressed how this Defiant 30 is holding on target at full draw. It holds with way less effort than any other 30" ATA bow I have owned to date 🏼. This flattop roofing nail as seen better days. A few arrows in at 20 yards this morning 


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## Mallardbreath

Wow, reading this has me thinking I might need to upgrade my old Hoyts. If what you are saying holds true, the 34 should be a real tack driver.


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## Adamsdjr

Shane, how do you think a guy with a 30-1/4" draw length would get along with this bow.


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## ontarget7

Adamsdjr said:


> Shane, how do you think a guy with a 30-1/4" draw length would get along with this bow.


Most would opt for the 34 with that draw length. I know some that still shoot the shorter ATA's really well even with the longer draw. It just comes down to reference points. If you can gain them with your draw length and facial features on the 30, then you would do just fine. If not the 34 would be a better choice. 


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## HAvok33

So when you swapped the spacers did you use the ones that came on it from Hoyt and just switched them around on the bottom cam? Sorry just making sure I understand this correctly


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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*



HAvok33 said:


> So when you swapped the spacers did you use the ones that came on it from Hoyt and just switched them around on the bottom cam? Sorry just making sure I understand this correctly


Just want to be clear and the reason why I posted the two scenarios with equal results was to show that either tunes with great results. 

The first one was spacers as is from factory and the second was swapping the bottom so white spacer was on the right side. Now I did add a small .010 spacer to the left side on top of the other black spacer to fill a small gap. To be honest, I did not see any left or right variances with bareshafts even with that very thin gap. 


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## blance7

ontarget7 said:


> As it stands right now
> 
> Hoyt Defiant 30 #2 cam E slot 28" [email protected] 72# with a 436 gr arrow, loop and peep
> 
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Again, Shane's Hoyt hitting over ATA rating. Dude just knows his stuff.


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## blance7

brokenarrow81 said:


> I agree and saw IBO to be 341. Maybe its the #2 cam but thats quite a bit faster on a similar setup to my nitrum.
> Need to tweak some because limbs never made spec wt when I tuned but wasnt really worried
> 62lbs 29.5" mods and 430gr axis had me at 278
> the nitrum still met its rating at those specs but this is showing the new defiant to be faster...but again never really paid much attention to #2 cam speeds because I'm always a 29.5" mod in a #3
> 
> Liking what I see. Great write up! This is why I wish shops would actually check bows before handing them over to shoot. Cam sync changes everything in the feel of a bow but most times I test a bow the can sync is off 99% of the time.


The #2 cams, at least since the RKT have almost always been coming in hotter and have proven to be the most efficient cam. Makes me not hate being a 27.5" shooter!! ha


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## blance7

ontarget7 said:


> Stock strings on this bow need some attention
> 
> The centerserving is not served tight enough and the need to get their overall diameter down especially at the CC that wraps around the bottom cam


I agree with this for sure. I have never had a problem with center servings on hoyts until the CS 30 I owned and now on my nitrum Turbo. I had never broke a nock on the shot before until my CS 30 and broke more than one on it and my nitrum turbo. Both bows resulting in center serving damage. New set coming in soon. My carbon Defiant turbo will have customs.


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## HAvok33

ontarget7 said:


> Just want to be clear and the reason why I posted the two scenarios with equal results was to show that either tunes with great results.
> 
> The first one was spacers as is from factory and the second was swapping the bottom so white spacer was on the right side. Now I did add a small .010 spacer to the left side on top of the other black spacer to fill a small gap. To be honest, I did not see any left or right variances with bareshafts even with that very thin gap.
> 
> Ok thanks Shane I understand now. Do you think the carbon 31 in the same e slot will show many differences or stay close to the same results. I know everyone is different and how you grip the bow is a big part of it but just curious to what you think?


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## Bullhound

blance7 said:


> Again, Shane's Hoyt hitting over ATA rating. Dude just knows his stuff.


While I agree Shane obviously knows his stuff, and goes to great lengths to review and detail every aspect of these bows, getting over IBO with them isn't such a big deal. Each and every Hoyt I've owned or set up surpassed its advertised IBO speed.

I really enjoy reading each of your reviews top to bottom Shane. Very informative each and every time!!! :thumbs_up


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## ontarget7

Thanks for the kind words, guys. Glad you guys are enjoying the info !

I agree completely on the speed thing. I can manage to squeeze a little more out of them but to be honest, they don't fluctuate near as much as people think, from out of tune to in tune.

I take pride in getting the most out of arrow flight more than any gains in speed.


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## ontarget7

Ok, tinkering with different draw lengths on the rotating mods. This will give you an idea of what kind of false impression when trying out these bows at your local archery shops, when they are just changing mod position and not cam synch. In this pic you will see how big of a difference from being tuned in the E slot with stops hitting the same, to the A slot that you see in the pic. The bottom cam is hitting and that is how much behind the top cam is when switching from E slot to A slot. 









Keep you posted shortly on efficiency going from E slot to A slot 


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## ex-wolverine

In that picture; that cam looks so much like Z3 cam with the rotating mods of the old Cam.5's ...That's probably why people are liking the draw cycle...Folks loved the Z3 

Good info Shane




ontarget7 said:


> Ok, tinkering with different draw lengths on the rotating mods. This will give you an idea of what kind of false impression when trying out these bows at your local archery shops, when they are just changing mod position and not cam synch. In this pic you will see how big of a difference from being tuned in the E slot with stops hitting the same, to the A slot that you see in the pic. The bottom cam is hitting and that is how much behind the top cam is when switching from E slot to A slot.
> 
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> Keep you posted shortly on efficiency going from E slot to A slot
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ontarget7

Continuing from the above post ^^^^. I took 2 full twist out of the CC and still shy of top cam hitting. You can see how this can give a false impression how the bow actually feels when just switching rotating mods and not re synching the cams 










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## ontarget7

ex-wolverine said:


> In that picture; that cam looks so much like Z3 cam with the rotating mods of the old Cam.5's ...That's probably why people are liking the draw cycle...Folks loved the Z3
> 
> Good info Shane


They do have similarities for sure. The draw is amazing this year and it looks like they nailed it with efficiency from A to E slot. Will post those numbers here shortly

Thanks [emoji106]🏼


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## ontarget7

Continuation from my last two post regarding rotating mods, cam synch changes and cam efficiency from E slot to A slot. 

Here is the results from re synching cams after switching from the E slot at 28" to the A slot at 26". 

New specs
Hoyt Defiant 30
26/71
436 gr arrow
Peep and loop









That is only a 2 fps loss in efficiency when calculating IBO speed speed calculation from E to A slot. 

Not to shabby for rotating mods. Actually that is pretty darn good if you ask me. That would make the DXT cams more efficient than last years cams. Good news for those that don't land in the E slot [emoji106]🏼[emoji109]🏼[emoji457] 


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## 573mms

It may have been talked about somewhere and I missed it. But why did you put the 3 extra mocks on the string at the top cam?


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## brokenarrow81

Thanks for highlighting the cam sync and draw change for others to see. Its crazy how many shops do not have draw boards so cam sync when testing is often way off. Great review and thanks for the taking the time. If it weren't for the adapters needed for the press I'd have one on order already! Good work!


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## TundraArcher

Yup, there is a substantial difference in cam synch between 'A' and 'E' slots. Probably why the vast majority of people who go to a pro shop to try out a bow have such varying opinions on how the bow "feels".


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## cseirup

Col review


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## ontarget7

573mms said:


> It may have been talked about somewhere and I missed it. But why did you put the 3 extra mocks on the string at the top cam?


Still tinkering with vertical nock travel and cam synch


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## ontarget7

brokenarrow81 said:


> Thanks for highlighting the cam sync and draw change for others to see. Its crazy how many shops do not have draw boards so cam sync when testing is often way off. Great review and thanks for the taking the time. If it weren't for the adapters needed for the press I'd have one on order already! Good work!


Your welcome
Thank You ! 


Actually pretty impressed with cam efficiency after going to the rotating mods this year. They did well on keeping speeds up throughout the different draw length. 




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## Skeeter 58

TundraArcher said:


> Yup, there is a substantial difference in cam synch between 'A' and 'E' slots. Probably why the vast majority of people who go to a pro shop to try out a bow have such varying opinions on how the bow "feels".


Yes and also most of the bows people demo are not in tune. 

Shane, looks like you're getting it figured out pretty well bro.


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## ontarget7

Getting a few asking of pics side by side of the Halon6 and Defiant 30. 
Here you go and sorry for the arrows supporting the Halon, the Folding bow stands are not wide enough to fit the Halon. I got two different models and neither work. 











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## THE ELKMAN

If you have already done chrono readings? Why not list results??



ontarget7 said:


> Cams are dead nuts the same at full draw now.
> 
> I will add, with the added tension on the cables with the new design even with cams hitting the same the chrono reading from one to another, while pulling into the wall has very little change in speed readings. I am getting .4 fps difference at best from a firm hold into the wall vs a normal hold into the wall.
> This is a great sign that has some value, to me anyways. It shows me that your vertical group spread will stay tight down range with cams hitting the same.
> 
> In years past to close the gap in chrono readings you would always have to have top cam ahead to have similar results in the 30" ATA models.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## THE ELKMAN

Oh LOL! Just found it... DOH


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## blance7

Bullhound said:


> While I agree Shane obviously knows his stuff, and goes to great lengths to review and detail every aspect of these bows, getting over IBO with them isn't such a big deal. Each and every Hoyt I've owned or set up surpassed its advertised IBO speed.
> 
> I really enjoy reading each of your reviews top to bottom Shane. Very informative each and every time!!! :thumbs_up


Most of mine have as well but not as high as shanes. So I believe it is a big deal. The person who tunes my bow, I trust as he is thorough, but he doesn't go quite as thorough as shane does. My bows either hit IBO or are a couple of fps faster. Shane's seem to always hit closer to 10 FPS over IBO. So that is a big deal to me, as most guys probably don't see that out of their bow.


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## huntertroy

Sorry if i missed it but what contributes to this years cams being dead even and prior years having top cam hit slightly ahead of bottom? Thanks


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## Clocked92

I will admit that I went to test the Defiant 30 in a number 2 cam but was only able to test it in a #3 cam. 

The bow was first set for a 29" draw length which I was worried would not fit me at all. I was very surprised when I drew it back, anchored and the string fell right on the tip of my nose and didn't feel too long at all. I guess my 27.5" draw length might actually be slightly short for me but I feel comfortable with it. 

With the 30, it felt completely dead in the hand on all shots even without a stabilizer. The valley was nice, and the draw was very smooth compared to my charger. I then tried the Turbo at 60# and honestly I could barely pull it back. I didn't care for the harsh draw cycle compared to the 30 and there was virtually no valley at all. Decided not to go with the Turbo and continued testing the 30. I had them shorten the draw on the 30 to 28" and it fit almost perfectly for me. The draw was super smooth but I did notice that after shortening the draw length, the shop owner didn't retime the cams. Now shooting 1" shorter draw length, I felt a slight vibration on each shot but I 100% believe that it was because the cams hadn't been re-synced. 

I did end up ordering the #2 cam partially because I want the extra speed that comes with it, and because I still intend on shooting a 27.5" draw length. I just want to reiterate what is being said here, that when these bows are properly timed, there is no vibration whatsoever, even without a stabilizer.


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## THE ELKMAN

Did you ever try to tune in a different slot? Like just a straight C slot? Center of the cam, just to see if it would still have the tail high tendency?



ontarget7 said:


> Ok, going to elaborate more on the tail high bareshaft low at 20 yards I was getting pretty consistent across the board with 3 different rests, the TT Smackdown, AXT Recon / AAE, and the HDX. The pics I posted were very slight but to get to that I just about had to have all low wrist completely off the bow, almost like shooting some recurves back in the day.
> 
> This had me a little confused for awhile, I tried running the arrow low, in the middle and high in the Berger hole with zero change, actually seemed to get worse the lower I went. This made me stay to running nock level and pretty high in the Berger hole and look for other areas that could be a possible fix. Then I went to changing the bottom draw stop peg to the smaller spiral stop thinking that would change things, nope. Last ditch effort I figured I would play with the rotating mods so I positioned the bottom rotating mod in the D position and immediately got a tail low condition due to top cam hitting well behind the bottom. So then I resynched the cams and what do you know it, perfect bareshaft results with ease I might add. It has been very repeatable in this setting and I was definitely pleased to see that take place. The bow holds so well on target for a 30" ATA, I am amazed. I would say that along with the overall balance and it being lighter than the H6 really fits in my wheel house for what I am looking for. It is driving bareshafts and fletched like a thing of beauty now, with very little conscious effort after the tuning of coarse.
> 
> Well, as I am literally writing my finding on this and still wondering why the tail high reaction ? It dawns on me, could it be due to the design of vertical nock travel was more tailored for the limb stop peg they added this year ? Thinking through all this it might just add up and make sense.
> 
> I am going to go back to the original settings and switch the bottom rotating mod back to the E position, re set cam synch etc, add limb stop and see what I get for results.
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ontarget7

Yes, posted all my findings in the A slot last night. You will see it in this thread


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## ontarget7

huntertroy said:


> Sorry if i missed it but what contributes to this years cams being dead even and prior years having top cam hit slightly ahead of bottom? Thanks


They designed the cams makeup and take out tracks accordingly to accommodate the higher tension loads. 

Prior years the end of the draw cycle actually felt better with top cam hitting before, smoothed out the backend transition while maintaining clean vertical nock travel. It also equalized more the load on the cables giving a firmer wall and consistent pull through the shot. 
With the new design so far I am finding the best end of draw cycle to be cams synch d at the same time and at the most top cam a hair ahead. The higher tension loads make the backwall firmer and pull through the shot very consistent while maintaining clean vertical nock travel. With the new design you will have tail high vertical nock travel when having the top cam hitting ahead of the bottom. 


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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

Ok, after trying numerous settings and getting a feel for the new cam system with rotating mods, I believe I have come to my final settings. One of the biggest shocks for me is, I will be using the limb stop and will explain more with all my final settings when I get a minute. 
The results are very repeatable and clean vertical and lateral nock travel. So repeatable I am not going to be testing bareshafts shooting the same spot. The Carbon Injexions aren't the cheapest arrows and have already broken a few bareshafts in these settings. Now others may vary and only posting my results. 










28/72
436 gr arrow

Very repeatable



















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## MELLY-MEL

Very nice bro!


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## Bullhound

blance7 said:


> Most of mine have as well but not as high as shanes. So I believe it is a big deal. The person who tunes my bow, I trust as he is thorough, but he doesn't go quite as thorough as shane does. My bows either hit IBO or are a couple of fps faster. Shane's seem to always hit closer to 10 FPS over IBO. So that is a big deal to me, as most guys probably don't see that out of their bow.


I apologize if my comments came off a rude to you for some reason. I meant no disrespect when I quoted you. My comment on speed was more of a statement about Hoyt being very good at producing bows that actually meet or exceed advertised speeds.


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## Bullhound

Very interesting that you are finding the limb stop to be an asset in this situation. That is a surprise.


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## ontarget7

Bullhound said:


> Very interesting that you are finding the limb stop to be an asset in this situation. That is a surprise.


I will explain more in regards to how I am using it to an advantage. Just want to be thorough in my findings before I come to a final conclusion on the settings for tuning 


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## bowhuntermitch

ontarget7 said:


> Ok, after trying numerous settings and getting a feel for the new cam system with rotating mods, I believe I have come to my final settings. One of the biggest shocks for me is, I will be using the limb stop and will explain more with all my final settings when I get a minute.
> The results are very repeatable and clean vertical and lateral nock travel. So repeatable I am not going to be testing bareshafts shooting the same spot. The Carbon Injexions aren't the cheapest arrows and have already broken a few bareshafts in these settings. Now others may vary and only posting my results.
> 
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> 436 gr arrow
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not to shabby for a 330IBO bow!


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## brokenarrow81

So after going through the bow would you feel the stockers are ok for a bit? I know you mentioned earlier about some serving changes needed but after twisting, tuning, shooting, are you noticing any serving separation mainly near the posts on the cams? Some of the z5's, mainly the bottom cam on the turbo, had a crazy angle that was hard on serving. Just wondering your thoughts on the DFX connection points after spending some time with it.


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## blance7

Bullhound said:


> I apologize if my comments came off a rude to you for some reason. I meant no disrespect when I quoted you. My comment on speed was more of a statement about Hoyt being very good at producing bows that actually meet or exceed advertised speeds.


No worries. I agree. I have shot hoyts for the past several years now and I have though about going to other bows but I just have too much confidence in hoyt. The fact that they do what they say or better, just gains my trust. That's worth putting my money on. There are a lot of other bows I have liked but don't want to spend the money on them when they rarely hit IBO..and they just don't feel as good to me.


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## ontarget7

I think I am ready to disclose my final settings. After sighting in with the Axcel Accutouch, which I'm still a hair low but I will call it good for now. You can see why I am only shooting one arrow at a time. This is literally 12 arrows at 20 yards in this final testing in regards to my final settings on the bow. All I got to say is WOW, I could probably settle in nicely and shoot spots with this Defiant 30. 











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## Mallardbreath

ontarget7 said:


> I think I am ready to disclose my final settings. After sighting in with the Axcel Accutouch, which I'm still a hair low but I will call it good for now. You can see why I am only shooting one arrow at a time. This is literally 12 arrows at 20 yards in this final testing in regards to my final settings on the bow. All I got to say is WOW, I could probably settle in nicely and shoot spots with this Defiant 30.
> 
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Show off! LOL. You've done nothing but tempt the crap out of me. Nice job!


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## ontarget7

Mallardbreath said:


> Show off! LOL. You've done nothing but tempt the crap out of me. Nice job!


I'm not even joking. This little 30" ATA bow holds like know other I have owned or shot and the list is long. 

Don't even think I am going to go carbon and will more than likely just stay with a Defiant 30. 


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## brokenarrow81

ontarget7 said:


> I'm not even joking. This little 30" ATA bow holds like know other I have owned or shot and the list is long.
> 
> Don't even think I am going to go carbon and will more than likely just stay with a Defiant 30.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting. Any reason why? Just curious. Maybe that extra half inch would be even better? I want one or the other but I really do not want to part with my Nitrum 30 just yet. Just picked up a CST ZT so I could save more coin by sticking to the aluminum. These results are great and even though I shot one that was out of time, the pin float for a short bow was one of the first things I noticed. Definitely a wow factor there. Also, like to hear more with your final setting and you choice of the limb stop. I haven't tested one that way. Maybe you will elaborate on if that helps a touch with hold. If it got even better with it than without...etc. Thanks Shane!


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## ontarget7

Not sure but I can speculate 

String angle and comfort of reference points 

Stiffer riser design

The additional limb stop is proofing more forgiving laterally when pulling through the shot. 

The limb stop in conjunction with the cable stops when set up appropriately is rock solid on the vertical plan. 

It is just balanced very well at full draw. I get very little drift from left to right or vertically. It almost just sits on target with very little effort. 

Hard to explain but whatever it is I am sold 


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## Kaveman44

how much different do you think the Defiant turbo will be? i have one on order and have only shot my mathews Helim


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## Bullhound

ontarget7 said:


> Not sure but I can speculate
> 
> String angle and comfort of reference points
> 
> Stiffer riser design
> 
> The additional limb stop is proofing more forgiving laterally when pulling through the shot.
> 
> The limb stop in conjunction with the cable stops when set up appropriately is rock solid on the vertical plan.
> 
> It is just balanced very well at full draw. I get very little drift from left to right or vertically. It almost just sits on target with very little effort.
> 
> Hard to explain but whatever it is I am sold
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


you are making me think of spending more money & I don't need another bow!!!!!! 

willpower, yep willpower......................


----------



## 573mms

ontarget7 said:


> I'm not even joking. This little 30" ATA bow holds like know other I have owned or shot and the list is long.
> 
> Don't even think I am going to go carbon and will more than likely just stay with a Defiant 30.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm definitely going to have to try one of these! In 2013 I had a 60lb black spider 30 that I shot probably better than any bow I ever had. I won more 3D shoots that year with that bow than ever before.


----------



## ontarget7

573mms said:


> I'm definitely going to have to try one of these! In 2013 I had a 60lb black spider 30 that I shot probably better than any bow I ever had. I won more 3D shoots that year with that bow than ever before.


I owned two of those and this blows it away. 

You are going to clean house on the 3D coarse with this one. The pin float is night and day difference between the two. Not to mention all the other things that are a step up. 




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## deer310sg

Good work as usual Shane! Gonna have to give the pro shop a call.

Better to ask for forgiveness than permission!


----------



## Tilzbow

Excellent review, thanks! Are you planning to take a look at the 34 and Turbo versions and possibly the carbon bows?


----------



## bornagain

ontarget7 said:


> I'm not even joking. This little 30" ATA bow holds like know other I have owned or shot and the list is long.
> 
> Don't even think I am going to go carbon and will more than likely just stay with a Defiant 30.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Very Nice Shane ! Thank You so much for the detailed review.


----------



## ericbhall1984

Very good review here shane! I'm in the market for something new this year and the defiant 34 is one of my top picks so far. 

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----------



## cjam96

What arrow rest are you using and what arrows are you shooting for this setup? Just curious because I am picking mine up this week and would like to set it up the same way if possible.....
Thanks for the review!


----------



## ontarget7

Your welcome, guys !

Currently have the TT on there now, cable driven. Shooting the Easton Injexion 330's 

Yep, definitely made up my mind this year. It will be the Defiant 30


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## THE ELKMAN

Did a chrono session on a 34 yesterday, and this is what we got: Defiant 34- 70.5 pounds - 28 inch draw - with a 422 grain Easton Blood Line came in at 282 fps. Just a quickie on a shop bow, but should give a few people that were asking some idea. Timing was done, and correct.


----------



## huntertroy

THE ELKMAN said:


> Did a chrono session on a 34 yesterday, and this is what we got: Defiant 34- 70.5 pounds - 28 inch draw - with a 422 grain Easton Blood Line came in at 282 fps. Just a quickie on a shop bow, but should give a few people that were asking some idea. Timing was done, and correct.


Thank you, any idea what that works out to ibo


----------



## ontarget7

huntertroy said:


> Thank you, any idea what that works out to ibo


332 IBO




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## THE ELKMAN

Yep...v --- And this was just stock EVERYTHING with a small BCY loop, but no peep.




ontarget7 said:


> 332 IBO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kodiak13

thanks for the great read!


----------



## ontarget7

You are welcome, hope it's helpful


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## huntertroy

When is the final settings disclosure comming?


----------



## long4mtns

I had the opportunity to shoot the Defiant 30 today. Wow. It was so smooth and held great. I can't wait to try the 34. 

Thanks Shane for taking the time to write all of this up.


----------



## Scott99

huntertroy said:


> When is the final settings disclosure comming?


What he said.


----------



## ontarget7

Ok guys, double and triple checked everything as well as switching rest back and forth and my final results have been very consistent. 

Specs are 
Hoyt Defiant 30
28/72
436 gr Easton Carbon Injexion 330 with 2 D6 HIT inserts and 100 gr tip
Peep and loop
290 fps

Tune settings you might find a little different for cam synch however, it is performing very well and will explain this. 

1) Nock height dead level
2) centershot 13/16 off the riser not the pad
3) pre lean, pretty much just a hair past parallel with aim string when running an arrow down the left side of cam to the d loop. 
4) cam synch is established by hitting dead nuts at the same time. Then put one full twist into the Control Cable. This will put bottom cam hitting first. Ya, I know I have not been a fan of that on past Hoyt's. 
5) now at full draw on a draw board at full draw when the top cam catches up and the draw stop peg has firm pressure into the control cable, set your limb stop at this point. 

Now bows might very depending on specs but this I will consider a very good starting point when using the limb stop. 

What the limb stop is doing is giving you that firmness when the top cam catches up with the bottom cam so it doesn't cause you to float the top cam depending on how you pull through the shot. This gives a very solid backwall and vertical and lateral nock travel is perfect with a bareshaft. 

The grip is very neutral in this position with not much thumb pad pressure at the grip, again very neutral. 

So why did I choose this setting ? Results are excellent and with bottom cam ahead, the tail high condition is completely gone and you don't need to shoot a high wrist grip to try and eliminate it. It was very inconsistent trying to work it out that way so this is what I cam up with for clean bareshaft flight. 

Generally Hoyt is very consistent with their build process so I expect similar results with other bows, but we will see soon enough. 

You can see why I am liking the limb stop, it is definitely giving consistency with cams synched in this manner. 

Have any question, ask away and will do my best to answer them. 

Trying to squeeze in some time on Saturday with some long range results. 


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## Bullhound

Wow, surprising, interesting, and very informative!!! Great job as usual!


----------



## huntertroy

Very interesting, thank you. Very different from what were use to with previous hoyts


----------



## Tfranceschi

great info!


----------



## ontarget7

I have another one I will be working on shortly so I will see if the results are similar. 

Keep in mind there is a couple other options that gave me equal results with bareshafts and I posted those in this thread as well. 

This should cover different scenarios and give you guys great options to get your bows dialed in. 




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## markman

Shane I am getting Defiant 30 at either 27.5 or 28"DL shooting 65lbs. OT2 shows carbon injections 330 cut to 28 or 27.5" with 100gr point just a hair on stiff side . 400's show to be weak. What is your suggestion? Thanks Mark By the way I have some FMJ Injections 400's cut at 27.5" with 100gr points I was shooting for my Elite Synergy, think these are to weak?


----------



## Scott99

Thanks Shane!


----------



## Bluemax61

Really "in-depth" review Shane! Thanks! :set1_applaud:

I may be fixing to ask you a question, which you've already answered at least once. If so, please accept my apology in advance! :embara: I know you haven't had the opportunity to try out the Defiant 34 yet, but I'm wondering if it's "that" much better than last year's Nitrum 34?! The reason I ask...

I "just" picked up a 2015 Nitrum 34 and was ELATED to get this bow - at dealer cost - with a trade-in! I have a 29.5" draw length and know the 34 is a more "forgiving choice" for me. But now... I'm letting myself think a made a mistake!  Granted, I purchased the Nitum prior to the Defiant being released. But for me at least - plunking down 700 big-uns on ANY bow, is a real - BIG DEAL! :shocked: And with the Defiant being even "more" $$$, I just feel a little sick thinking, I made a mistake. :noidea:

So, I just wanted to get your thoughts! Thanks in advance!


----------



## ontarget7

markman said:


> Shane I am getting Defiant 30 at either 27.5 or 28"DL shooting 65lbs. OT2 shows carbon injections 330 cut to 28 or 27.5" with 100gr point just a hair on stiff side . 400's show to be weak. What is your suggestion? Thanks Mark By the way I have some FMJ Injections 400's cut at 27.5" with 100gr points I was shooting for my Elite Synergy, think these are to weak?


I would opt for the Carbon Injexion 330's if it were me personally, they will tune just fine. The 400 FMJ Injexions are probably doable do to the weight 



Bluemax61 said:


> Really "in-depth" review Shane! Thanks! :set1_applaud:
> 
> I may be fixing to ask you a question, which you've already answered at least once. If so, please accept my apology in advance! :embara: I know you haven't had the opportunity to try out the Defiant 34 yet, but I'm wondering if it's "that" much better than last year's Nitrum 34?! The reason I ask...
> 
> I "just" picked up a 2015 Nitrum 34 and was ELATED to get this bow - at dealer cost - with a trade-in! I have a 29.5" draw length and know the 34 is a more "forgiving choice" for me. But now... I'm letting myself think a made a mistake!  Granted, I purchased the Nitum prior to the Defiant being released. But for me at least - plunking down 700 big-uns on ANY bow, is a real - BIG DEAL! :shocked: And with the Defiant being even "more" $$$, I just feel a little sick thinking, I made a mistake. :noidea:
> 
> So, I just wanted to get your thoughts! Thanks in advance!


Only you can make that decision, bro.

IMHO the Defiant series is definitely a step up from the Nitrum and I have shot the 34. Don't get me wrong, you will be happy with the Nitrum as well but when comparing the two, its the Defiant series.





Your welcome guys :thumbs_up


----------



## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

To be continued


Sent from my iPhone usin


----------



## whack n stack

Nice work.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

All these scenarios are dictated by bareshaft results and cam synch is a big part of playing off of that. 

Something to think about if you choose to go with my final results with bottom cam ahead and utilizing the limb stop on the top cam. I have noticed in this setting it is very easy to come back up on target after you drop below. 




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## Wack'EM

Thanks again Shane . Hope the Carbon Defiant 31 that I have coming tunes that good .


----------



## krammy37

Maybe I missed it but I have a couple questions in regards to your final settings.

Where is your arrow in relation to the berger hole?

Did you end up adding or removing any speed nocks?

On a side note, how do you go about locating the berger hole since it's covered up by the rubber pad?

Thanks for the great review!!!


----------



## ontarget7

I have the arrow running high in the Berger Hole, bottom of shaft is in the upper end of it. You can locate it by just taking and Allen wrench and poking around on the rubber pad. It doesn't have to be exact but I did find the higher I was my top cam stayed with in reason of the bottom cam for cam synch. 

I was playing with speed nocks on the top to see if I could add more to clean up the tail high I was getting initially. This did give me 1.5 fps increase in speed but no real luck with the tail high when cams were synched at the same time. 

Your welcome guys [emoji106]🏼


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## Ragin-Cajun

..so with the defiant your losing roughly 20fps as compared to a similar set-up with your nitrum turbo?


----------



## ontarget7

17 fps to be exact 


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## camelcluch

So with that tune and set up, 340ish for IBO? Is my math right?


----------



## ontarget7

camelcluch said:


> So with that tune and set up, 340ish for IBO? Is my math right?


Yes sir, coming in at 341 

A 360 gr arrow came in at 315 fps


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## Bbd16

80lbs would put you right on track with the turbo! Do it! &#55357;&#56832;


----------



## ontarget7

Yep, 

28/82#
436 gr arrow
Peep and loop
I'm guessing 309 fps


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## Bbd16

The one I had on hand the other day was at my specs. 27 81 413 293fps


----------



## ToesUp

subscribed


----------



## PWOODNC

Hey Shane, don't know if it was mentioned, but what was let-off and holding weight after tuning?


----------



## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*



PWOODNC said:


> Hey Shane, don't know if it was mentioned, but what was let-off and holding weight after tuning?


72# peak weight and holding weight was 15#
Puts it just a hair under 80% let off


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## cjam96

Have you got your hands on the Defiant 30 Turbo yet?


----------



## Mallardbreath

cjam96 said:


> Have you got your hands on the Defiant 30 Turbo yet?


There's no such animal. The Turbo is 33" ATA.


----------



## cjam96

Ya that's what I meant! There is no defiant 30 either it's a 30 1/2".


----------



## cjam96

cjam96 said:


> Ya that's what I meant! There is no defiant 30 either it's a 30 1/2".


That was a joke by the way!:wink:


----------



## JDUB007

ontarget7 said:


> Draw length is coming in 28 1/8" and you could easily tweak it plus or minis 1/8" one way or another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shane what draw board is that...looks like a nice set up...is that one you can buy?


----------



## ontarget7

I bought this from Elite years ago and they don't sell them anymore.

I do believe there is a similar one you can get from Lancaster archery. Same company probably makes the actual drawboard for them

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/lancaster-archery-supply-pro-shop-draw-board.html


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----------



## JDUB007

O


ontarget7 said:


> I bought this from Elite years ago and they don't sell them anymore.
> 
> I do believe there is a similar one you can get from Lancaster archery. Same company probably makes the actual drawboard for them
> 
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/lancaster-archery-supply-pro-shop-draw-board.html
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks


----------



## Reverend

Shane? Defiant Turbo?


----------



## ontarget7

Working on making that happen 🏼



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## Tfranceschi

Shane, quick question... Carbon defiant 34, 28" draw, 70lbs, 422 grain arrow... what kind of speeds do you think I would see???


----------



## ontarget7

Tfranceschi said:


> Shane, quick question... Carbon defiant 34, 28" draw, 70lbs, 422 grain arrow... what kind of speeds do you think I would see???


This should be very close

280-283 fps


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----------



## Tfranceschi

ontarget7 said:


> This should be very close
> 
> 280-283 fps
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Thank you


----------



## ontarget7

🏼


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## deltapapatango

Shane, another quick question... Carbon Defiant Turbo, 28" draw, 70lbs, 477 grain arrow... what kind of speeds do you think I would see???


----------



## ontarget7

deltapapatango said:


> Shane, another quick question... Carbon Defiant Turbo, 28" draw, 70lbs, 477 grain arrow... what kind of speeds do you think I would see???


#2 cam ?


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----------



## brokenlittleman

ontarget7 said:


> #2 cam ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


#2 for me


----------



## ontarget7

Right around 291 fps with the above specs and #2 cam


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## Clocked92

Hey Shane,

I ordered my Defiant 30 in 60-70# limbs even though I currently shoot 50-60# limbs buried. I want to increase my draw weight gradually.

I was just wondering if you could let me know what the minimum draw weight on those 60-70# limbs is with the tiller bolts backed out the full 8 turns. If it's too much trouble, don't worry about it...I was just wondering.

Thanks


----------



## Larry brown

Just curious if you had a heavier weight arrows to test through chrono? I would like to see a 500+grain arrow, I am shooting a 585 grain arrow now. I shot the defiant 30 today and was throughly impressed. I shot it beside the Halon and the Defiant just felt better. I wanted a speed bow this year but I can't believe the Defiant set at 70lbs was as easy to draw and such a solid back wall it just made me want one today. I now have to decide if I want black, camo or ridge reaper camo. Assuming Hoyt does a upgrade price for colors other than regular camo?

Also what do you use on the shelf to hold your arrows with the Limb Driven rest? I have a arrow holder from VT on my chill r didn't know if it would stick on the rubber on the Hoyt shelf?


----------



## ontarget7

Clocked92 said:


> Hey Shane,
> 
> I ordered my Defiant 30 in 60-70# limbs even though I currently shoot 50-60# limbs buried. I want to increase my draw weight gradually.
> 
> I was just wondering if you could let me know what the minimum draw weight on those 60-70# limbs is with the tiller bolts backed out the full 8 turns. If it's too much trouble, don't worry about it...I was just wondering.
> 
> Thanks


One full turn is right at 2 pounds


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----------



## ontarget7

Larry brown said:


> Just curious if you had a heavier weight arrows to test through chrono? I would like to see a 500+grain arrow, I am shooting a 585 grain arrow now. I shot the defiant 30 today and was throughly impressed. I shot it beside the Halon and the Defiant just felt better. I wanted a speed bow this year but I can't believe the Defiant set at 70lbs was as easy to draw and such a solid back wall it just made me want one today. I now have to decide if I want black, camo or ridge reaper camo. Assuming Hoyt does a upgrade price for colors other than regular camo?
> 
> Also what do you use on the shelf to hold your arrows with the Limb Driven rest? I have a arrow holder from VT on my chill r didn't know if it would stick on the rubber on the Hoyt shelf?


With the Ved shelf you really don't need to try and add a arrow holder, the arrow just rest in the middle rather nicely. 

See is I can run a 500+ gr arrow for you


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----------



## Larry brown

ontarget7 said:


> With the Ved shelf you really don't need to try and add a arrow holder, the arrow just rest in the middle rather nicely.
> 
> See is I can run a 500+ gr arrow for you
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Awesome Shane I appreciate all the time you take answering all the questions. And it would be awesome to see some real numbers with the heavier arrows!!!! And that's good news on a arrow holder if I get one I will prob not get one then.


----------



## Clocked92

Larry brown said:


> I now have to decide if I want black, camo or ridge reaper camo. Assuming Hoyt does a upgrade price for colors other than regular camo?


RR camo is a standard color option this year with no upcharge. I went with Harvest brown riser with RR limbs and there is about a $100 upcharge for Harvest brown


----------



## Larry brown

Oh that's cool I may do ridge reaper camo then.


----------



## A CASE DEEP

Larry brown said:


> Just curious if you had a heavier weight arrows to test through chrono? I would like to see a 500+grain arrow, I am shooting a 585 grain arrow now. I shot the defiant 30 today and was throughly impressed. I shot it beside the Halon and the Defiant just felt better. I wanted a speed bow this year but I can't believe the Defiant set at 70lbs was as easy to draw and such a solid back wall it just made me want one today. I now have to decide if I want black, camo or ridge reaper camo. Assuming Hoyt does a upgrade price for colors other than regular camo?
> 
> Also what do you use on the shelf to hold your arrows with the Limb Driven rest? I have a arrow holder from VT on my chill r didn't know if it would stick on the rubber on the Hoyt shelf?


I am in the same boat. I can't decide what color to get. That Black looks SWEET but I don't know what to do. The old original camo is always my go to.


----------



## ontarget7

I will have a Ridge Reaper riser with black limbs some time this coming year [emoji106]🏼. 


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----------



## c5mrr270

ontarget7 said:


> I will have a Ridge Reaper riser with black limbs some time this coming year [emoji106]&#55356;&#57340;.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You stole my idea. I'll be ordering a CD 34 in RR with black limbs. Thinking 80#er.


----------



## ontarget7

c5mrr270 said:


> You stole my idea. I'll be ordering a CD 34 in RR with black limbs. Thinking 80#er.


[emoji106]🏼[emoji12]


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----------



## 573mms

ontarget7 said:


> I will have a Ridge Reaper riser with black limbs some time this coming year [emoji106]&#55356;&#57340;.
> 
> 
> Is it a up charge for reaper riser and black limbs or have you checked yet?


----------



## ontarget7

573mms said:


> ontarget7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will have a Ridge Reaper riser with black limbs some time this coming year [emoji106]&#55356;&#57340;.
> 
> 
> Is it a up charge for reaper riser and black limbs or have you checked yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's an up charge
> Most places you will probably see about 100 bucks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## Reverend

ontarget7 said:


> I will have a Ridge Reaper riser with black limbs some time this coming year [emoji106]🏼.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is that the Turbo model we're anxiously anticipating a review on???


----------



## BrokenLimbs

I finally think I'm going to be buying my first Hoyt. Been waiting for "the right feel" on a #2 cam 70# bow for many years after reading our review here. (I've typically found the #2 Hoyt cams with 70# limbs felt harsh when compared to some other brands.) When set to over 65#'s, they "change." It's not that I can't pull the weight, and used to hunt for many years with an 80# bow @ 82 lbs. (It was overkill for whitetail, and I'm not getting any younger either lol.)

More recently, someone testing on several 70# maxed out vs. 80 lb. (turned down) identical bows..... The 70# limbs (turned all the way up) were supposed to be more efficient than the 80# limbs (turned down to meet the 70# limbs draw weight.) *But the testing had yielded the exact opposite results!* The heavier limbs were delivering higher readings on the chronograph. The only "offered explanation" the the surprising results was "possibly the stiffer limbs were quicker to react?" Of course I suspect that even if the 80 lb. limbs (turned down) were yielding better speed, the bow might be a touch louder though.

Anyways, I'm wondering if there's any merit in going with the 80# version, and backing them off when I know I'll be shooting ~72 lbs? I typically shoot a 72# bow. (or whatever I can get out of a "70 lb." setup) What I'm curious about is: What happens to b/h when you back the poundage off these bows with the new limb geometries? Shane indicated the #2 cams were coming in at ~6.75 in. brace. (70 lb. limbs turned all the way up) Would you get more b/h with 80# limbs backed down? I anticipate shooting the bow with side plates, so that should get me very close to 7 inches. ~ *Shane, any chance you could measure the b/h (with the #2 cams) when the limbs are backed down ~10 lbs?*


----------



## BrokenLimbs

Oops.... Messed up the first part of my previous post. Meant to say:
I finally think I'm going to be buying my first Hoyt after reading your detailed review here..... Been waiting for "the right feel" on a #2 Hoyt cam 70# bow for many years....


----------



## ontarget7

BrokenLimbs said:


> Oops.... Messed up the first part of my previous post. Meant to say:
> I finally think I'm going to be buying my first Hoyt after reading your detailed review here..... Been waiting for "the right feel" on a #2 Hoyt cam 70# bow for many years....


Sweet bow, I'm sure you will really enjoy it. 

Will see if I can get that brace height measurement for you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

When backing off the heavier pound limbs I don't see a higher efficiency per say. I will say backing off the limbs holds pretty true when comparing IBO speed calculations.


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----------



## Clocked92

I decided to see if I can change my order to 65# limbs just for convenience. I don't feel that I would ever need to shoot 70# and I prefer to shoot comfortably than struggle with each shot.


----------



## huntertroy

Shane, do you recommend changing out the stock string on the new hoyt to a smaller diameter custom?


----------



## BrokenLimbs

ontarget7 said:


> Sweet bow, I'm sure you will really enjoy it.
> Will see if I can get that brace height measurement for you.


Thank you. If you can, maybe you would also share how what you think about shooting this bow with just side plates instead of a full grip? (You gain about 1/4 inch b/h, at least that's what I was told here by someone last year.)
I suspect that routinely shooting a carbon version with side plates might not be the best idea, because of dealing with the finish..... Anyone here been shooting the carbon Hoyts with side plates?

I know it sounds like I'm making b/h a big deal. I am, and I'm not. I've hunted with compound bows from 6 1/8 brace up to 9 in. So I've personally experienced how beneficial and more forgiving added brace can be. (Particularly when you need it the most.) The only negative thing I can say about my 70# Chill-R is the 6 1/8 brace spec. I've been taking deer with it for 2 seasons now and it's never cost me a deer, but I definitely notice how it can widen my POI. ~ When shooting at 35+ yards from odd angles in my saddle, I know I'm "right on the edge" with this bow.


----------



## BrokenLimbs

huntertroy said:


> Shane, do you recommend changing out the stock string on the new hoyt to a smaller diameter custom?


I was wondering the same thing based on one of Shane's prior posts. I was thinking t would make it bit faster, but then there's also the durability issue.
I'm not a speed freak but I was also curious as to the "final say" on performance with the extra weight added to the top of the bow. (As I recall, you added weight to the string while tuning/addressing tears, but then resolved the problem in a different way. (I'm pretty sure you left the weight on the string, yes? ~ Huntertroy reminded me of this.)


----------



## huntertroy

Ive been shooting carbons with side plates since 2010 and have had no issues with the finish except on a 2011 element that would of happened regardless of grip used


----------



## BrokenLimbs

huntertroy said:


> Ive been shooting carbons with side plates since 2010 and have had no issues with the finish except on a 2011 element that would of happened regardless of grip used


Good to know. How deep is the plastic in the back of the grip? (Am I right on thinking it's ~1/4 inch deep?)


----------



## DoWorkSon

Was just informed that my Defiant will be here around the end of January for my shop shooter bow! WOO HOO!


----------



## deltapapatango

ontarget7 said:


> Right around 291 fps with the above specs and #2 cam
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes #2 cam. Thank you sir!


----------



## huntertroy

BrokenLimbs said:


> Good to know. How deep is the plastic in the back of the grip? (Am I right on thinking it's ~1/4 inch deep?)


Yes roughly 1/4"


----------



## BrokenLimbs

huntertroy said:


> Yes roughly 1/4"


Thank you!

Being a leftie, I'm going to have to wait for the day when I can get my hands on a #2 70 lb. Carbon 31. (or maybe 80# I can turn down) As long as I like the draw cycle and I'm taking it home!
Dealers in my neck of he woods don't/won't order #2 left hand bows without a commitment, it's not something they "stock." (And I won't order a bow based on spec's. It has to feel right.)
The closest dealer used to *ONLY* stock RH 65# bows in the Hoyt lineup! (I've since heard he now stocks 70# Hoyts, but typically RH only.)

~Tough being a LH shooter. (Although someone once commented/replied to my frustrations: "Try being a LH golfer..... That's even worse!")


----------



## g_whitcomb

Clocked92 said:


> I decided to see if I can change my order to 65# limbs just for convenience. I don't feel that I would ever need to shoot 70# and I prefer to shoot comfortably than struggle with each shot.


I'm wishing I would have done that. This cam has to be the easiest draw and smoothest let down I've ever felt. The extra 5# would not even be noticed.


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## BrokenLimbs

Question for Ontarget7:

Having had the opportunity to compare the Hoyt Defiant 30 *(#2 cam)* along side the Mathews Halon (both 70# bows at the~28 in. draw length setup)..... Pound for pound, how would you compare the draw on each bow?
(Being a "leftie", I will never see these two bows side by side around here.)


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## griffwar

BrokenLimbs said:


> Question for Ontarget7:
> 
> Having had the opportunity to compare the Hoyt Defiant 30 #2 along side the Mathews Halon (both 70# bows at a shorter draw length)..... Pound for pound, how would you compare the draw on each bow?


This is going to be good! LOL


----------



## ontarget7

BrokenLimbs said:


> Question for Ontarget7:
> 
> Having had the opportunity to compare the Hoyt Defiant 30 *(#2 cam)* along side the Mathews Halon (both 70# bows at the~28 in. draw length setup)..... Pound for pound, how would you compare the draw on each bow?
> (Being a "leftie", I will never see these two bows side by side around here.)


I would say they are both very comparable. 
The Halon 6 will be a little stiffer up front and really the only difference. Both have very good draw cycles. 


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## Larry brown

I shot both bows and I have had several Mathews and I didn't care for the halon. I wanted to like it but I just didn't. It was stiffer up front and didn't seem to be as accurate with it. Now the Defiant I was dead nuts with it just shooting 20 yards. And I have been shooting 60lbs on my Chill R and love it but the 70lb Defiant was just as easy. I am torn between sticking with 60 of going to 70 or heck with Hoyt I can go 65. That's my NON PROFESSIONAL opinion on the two even though I wasn't asked ha!


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## ontarget7

^^^^^The Defiant definitely holds on target easier 


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## BrokenLimbs

ontarget7 said:


> I would say they are both very comparable.
> The Halon 6 will be a little stiffer up front and really the only difference. Both have very good draw cycles.


That is an impressive statement in my book, given the #2 cams!



Larry brown said:


> I shot both bows and I have had several Mathews and I didn't care for the halon. I wanted to like it but I just didn't. It was stiffer up front and didn't seem to be as accurate with it. Now the Defiant I was dead nuts with it just shooting 20 yards. And I have been shooting 60lbs on my Chill R and love it but the 70lb Defiant was just as easy. I am torn between sticking with 60 of going to 70 or heck with Hoyt I can go 65. That's my NON PROFESSIONAL opinion on the two even though I wasn't asked ha!


What draw length/cams were you shooting on the Defiant?



ontarget7 said:


> ^^^^^The Defiant definitely holds on target easier


With comments like these..... Looks like the Carbon Defiant 31 is definitely NOT going to be "checkbook friendly" lol!


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## Larry brown

I don't know much about the cams but from what I read it would have been the 28" draw #2 cam cause he said it wouldn't go to 29 on that cam. I really really really am impressed enough with it to sell my Chill R and buy one. And I was still liking my chill r and didn't wanna buy a new bow buy I shot 4-5 bows that day and Hoyt has my vote. I wouldn't turn down a Halon if I won one but I would still buy the Defiant too.


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## A CASE DEEP

Ontarget7, when will you be getting a D Turbo? really wanting to see some testing done on that.


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## ontarget7

A CASE DEEP said:


> Ontarget7, when will you be getting a D Turbo? really wanting to see some testing done on that.


I am focusing on the bows I have in currently and then I won't be doing anything bow review or tuning wise until after the Vegas shoot.


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## HuskyKMA

BrokenLimbs said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Being a leftie, I'm going to have to wait for the day when I can get my hands on a #2 70 lb. Carbon 31. (or maybe 80# I can turn down) As long as I like the draw cycle and I'm taking it home!
> Dealers in my neck of he woods don't/won't order #2 left hand bows without a commitment, it's not something they "stock." (And I won't order a bow based on spec's. It has to feel right.)
> The closest dealer used to *ONLY* stock RH 65# bows in the Hoyt lineup! (I've since heard he now stocks 70# Hoyts, but typically RH only.)
> 
> ~Tough being a LH shooter. *(Although someone once commented/replied to my frustrations: "Try being a LH golfer..... That's even worse!")*


Naw, LH golfers have it easy. Seems like every time I go to look at clubs I end up in the LH aisle wondering why the clubheads are on backwards!


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## BrokenLimbs

@Ontarget7:
Did you ever get a chance to see what the difference was (if any) on brace when you turn down the Hoyt limbs 10 pounds?


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## BrokenLimbs

Larry brown said:


> I shot both bows and I have had several Mathews and I didn't care for the halon. I wanted to like it but I just didn't. It was stiffer up front and didn't seem to be as accurate with it. Now the Defiant I was dead nuts with it just shooting 20 yards. And I have been shooting 60lbs on my Chill R and love it but the 70lb Defiant was just as easy.


More surprises, I also really like my Chill-R but it's 70 pounds. I put the 85% mods on mine which made the bow noticeably softer to draw and hold. I shoot slightly tighter groups with the standard ones, but these 85% rock mods do make the bow noticeably smoother/easier to draw and almost too easy to hold 70 lbs. back at full draw. What mods did you say you had on yours Chill-R?


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## Larry brown

The 80% stock mods. I thought the 70lb defiant was easy as or easier than my chill r. I may still go with 65 though hadn't decided honestly. I will prob have to order if I get the ridge reaper or black so either way I can get what I want!


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## BrokenLimbs

I know you can get 65 pound limbs. But does Hoyt also offer 75 pound limbs?


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## Larry brown

Don't think so, 70 then 80lb is in their website.


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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*



BrokenLimbs said:


> @Ontarget7:
> Did you ever get a chance to see what the difference was (if any) on brace when you turn down the Hoyt limbs 10 pounds?


1/4" gain in brace height


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## Larry brown

Dang that's a lot. Guess I better be more decisive in which one I get!


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## ontarget7

Just to be clear
1/4" gain with limbs backed out 10 pounds under peak weight


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## Larry brown

Is that the norm for other bows also?


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## BrokenLimbs

ontarget7 said:


> Just to be clear
> 1/4" gain with limbs backed out 10 pounds under peak weight
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You have to also take into account possible noise considerations…. I wonder how much louder the bow is with the limbs backed off…..


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## BrokenLimbs

Larry brown said:


> Is that the norm for other bows also?


I would think the less parallel the limbs are….. The more you gain in brace height when you back out the bolts.


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## BrokenLimbs

Here's the thing: you can gain about half an inch in brace height when you shoot side plates on this particular bow with the limb bolts backed down. It might be a touch noisier, but it should be more forgiving.

If the bow draws as nicely as I'm hearing ,I think will get 80 pound limbs and back them down most of the way. (providing noise isn't a factor)


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## LongIslandHunt

Is there a tl;dr on this?


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## BrokenLimbs

Or I could always go to "plan B" and acknowledge the fact I ain't getting any younger. Of course that would mean going with 75 (70?) pound limbs and turning those down lol/col.


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## BrokenLimbs

LongIslandHunt said:


> Is there a tl;dr on this?


???

One thing worth restating about specified brace height on this bow is: When you go with the number 2 cams, brace height is not seven inches. It's about six and three quarters with the limb bolts turned all the way up. (Because the number 2 cams are smaller in radius/diameter.)


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## Larry brown

I can shoot a 6" BH and be fine but if I am getting as efficient as these bows seem I will shoot a 7" and be even more forgiving, but I also wanna shoot the turbo and see the difference in draw over a period before I decide also.


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## GROSEN

BrokenLimbs said:


> Here's the thing: you can gain about half an inch in brace height when you shoot side plates on this particular bow with the limb bolts backed down. It might be a touch noisier, but it should be more forgiving.
> 
> If the bow draws as nicely as I'm hearing ,I think will get 80 pound limbs and back them down most of the way. (providing noise isn't a factor)


If you back the limbbolt all the way out the backwall will be spongy too.. atleast not as firm unless you use the limb stop..


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## ontarget7

GROSEN said:


> If you back the limbbolt all the way out the backwall will be spongy too.. atleast not as firm unless you use the limb stop..


This can be misleading. It wouldn't matter if you had a 60# bow maxed at 63# or a 70# bow backed down to 63#, the backwall will be the same due to the same tension loads on the cables. The higher the draw weight the higher the tension loads, thus giving you the firmer backwall 


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## PeterM

Great detail review mate!

But can i ask or try something for me?

I wanted to know if you move the draw stops back one spot from the intended position I.E. A in the A peg, to one extra stop back say mod A draw stop in B etc, etc through the range until you obviously cannot do the mod E longer, so besides the increase in draw length, what does the let-off go to and does the back wall still firm?

Pete.


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## LongIslandHunt

BrokenLimbs said:


> ???
> 
> One thing worth restating about specified brace height on this bow is: When you go with the number 2 cams, brace height is not seven inches. It's about six and three quarters with the limb bolts turned all the way up. (Because the number 2 cams are smaller in radius/diameter.)


There's nearly 15 pages in the thread, don't want to go through it all.. what's the full review?

BTW, tl;dr means to long didn't read.


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## Larry brown

There is only 12, if ya want the review you will have to go back. He has took the time to review what he has so far all ya have to do is read it and scroll. It's really interesting what he does and can do. I wish I had the knowledge some of these bow gurus have. Most of the time the shops around my area you get a bow that is pretty close to tuned and that's all they are willing to do. When I get the money I will be buying a press, building draw board and doing my own work.


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## A CASE DEEP

Larry brown said:


> There is only 12, if ya want the review you will have to go back. He has took the time to review what he has so far all ya have to do is read it and scroll. It's really interesting what he does and can do. I wish I had the knowledge some of these bow gurus have. Most of the time the shops around my area you get a bow that is pretty close to tuned and that's all they are willing to do. When I get the money I will be buying a press, building draw board and doing my own work.


I have always done my own work on my bows too until now. I don't have a press that I can put the correct adapters on to press the 2016 hoyts. The guys in my pro shop better be ready to spend some time with me because I am pretty anal about how I do things too.


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## LongIslandHunt

Larry brown said:


> When I get the money I will be buying a press, building draw board and doing my own work.



Wish I had the room for one, I just don't right now :/ .. there's only 1 person I really trust adjusting my bow...


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## BrokenLimbs

Yes, it's sometimes the little details that make all the difference.

As for back walls being spongy on certain bows I first thought that was the reason. It frequently seems many people shooting lower poundage bows have very different perceptions on some of the same cable stop bows I shoot with 70 pound limbs maxed out. Either that or something may not have been set quite right on the bows they were shooting.


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## BrokenLimbs

What I really appreciate about Ontarget7's reviews is: even if you don't understand everything, he gives you enough information to properly set up and tune your bow providing you have the tools needed.

His reviews are definitely worth reading from start to finish if your seriously interested in one of the bows he's setting up.


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## LongIslandHunt

Shane, I'm curious, what would happen if i'm a 27 inch draw and I set the modules to E and twisted the string a bit to make up for that extra length?


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## BrokenLimbs

I have a question for Shane about pressing the 2016 Defiant..... Nighthawk press? I have one. What do you think? My Chill-R absolutely loves it, and it can (according to the guy who designed it) safely press my Bear Carnage (which has limbs that are tricky/swept back.) I haven't tried pressing the Carnage myself, I'm just going on what I was told. And to be totally honest I'm a little apprehensive about trying. ~ I've listened to shops (even Bear dealers) make remarks about "not wanting to press my Carange" (because of limb design) on several occasions over the past few years.

http://www.nitehawkarchery.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page1.html


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## ontarget7

LongIslandHunt said:


> Shane, I'm curious, what would happen if i'm a 27 inch draw and I set the modules to E and twisted the string a bit to make up for that extra length?


Not sure I'm following you ? 
If you are a 27" draw you would fall in the C slot on the Defiant 30 #2 cam. Putting you right in the middle of the cam and its full rotation. The cams are very efficient so no real new to land in a certain draw length position within that particular cam. The #2 cam will be hotter than a #3 cam and you already land in the #2 cam


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## ontarget7

BrokenLimbs said:


> I have a question for Shane about pressing the 2016 Defiant..... Nighthawk press? I have one. What do you think? My Chill-R absolutely loves it, and it can (according to the guy who designed it) safely press my Bear Carnage (which has limbs that are tricky/swept back.) I haven't tried pressing the Carnage myself, I'm just going on what I was told. And to be totally honest I'm a little apprehensive about trying. ~ I've listened to shops (even Bear dealers) make remarks about "not wanting to press my Carange" (because of limb design) on several occasions over the past few years.
> 
> http://www.nitehawkarchery.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page1.html


I actually have one of those presses. Not sure I will get the time to try it out and see if it works on the Defiant series thou. Need to get the bow shipped back to Hoyt. It was only shipped out for a review. To bad I can't keep it. That's a lot of valuable info and time [emoji2]


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## Drjoe

Thanks for the review Shane. You should get to keep the bow. You must have sold 50++ for them with this review alone!!!


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## ontarget7

Drjoe said:


> Thanks for the review Shane. You should get to keep the bow. You must have sold 50++ for them with this review alone!!!


Your welcome 

It's all good, don't mind sharing the info. 

Hoyt definitely did well this year in the Defiant series, it's very tough to not like that lineup. With improvements all the way around IMO. 


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## BrokenLimbs

Drjoe said:


> Thanks for the review Shane. You should get to keep the bow. You must have sold 50++ for them with this review alone!!!


Totally agree.... Way more valuable "sales-wise" than the TV bow hunting pros/celebs IMO! (The same goes for the magazine and digital media/tv ads.)

A few months back I listened to quite a few people here on a/t speaking negatively of Hoyt for their "lackluster 85'th anniversary release." ~ I saw things very differently from the get-go (before reading this review.)
Given the technological barriers in place, I think this bow is chock full of refinements. Only thing I might have wished for is a touch more valley (go figure lol) and maybe an inch or so added to the ATA spec. on a non-turbo. (Carbon Defiant 32 or 33) ~ Likely not feasible..... So many buyers look and buy bows based on IBO ratings and either don't care or don't realize the sacrifices that come with speed.

Used to look at them somewhat in the same way.... Short, fast etc. But I was fortunate to have been taught (when I first began shooting) about what forgiveness is, how you get it, and why it's so important. (b/h was always one of the top considerations) And I'll never forget the recent (a few years back) article in one of the big archery hunting mags about forgiveness. They were "hands on" shooting/comparing their "old" bows of yesteryear (early/mid 2000 bows with 8+ in. brace height) against the newer short (6 in.) b/h bows which were being marketed as "easy to shoot." After running the tests, they all came up to the same conclusion (paraphrased): "We want to think they're just as easy to shoot, but we proved that's not the case. So in believing this, we're only kidding ourselves." ~ There was a significant difference in grouping. (Newer bows were obviously faster, quieter and low in vibration, but the arrows weren't stacking the same way.)


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## PeterM

ontarget7 said:


> 72# peak weight and holding weight was 15#
> Puts it just a hair under 80% let off
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great detail review Shane!

But can i ask or try something for me on your testing of the Defiant 30?

I wanted to know if you move the draw stops back one spot from the intended position I.E. A in the A peg, to one extra stop back say mod A draw stop in B etc, etc through the range until you obviously cannot do the mod E longer, so besides the increase in draw length, what does the let-off go to and does the back wall still firm?

Pete.


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## long4mtns

Drjoe said:


> Thanks for the review Shane. You should get to keep the bow. You must have sold 50++ for them with this review alone!!!


^^^^this

I plan on ordering one after I have a chance to shoot all of them at the ATA show. Thanks for all the information Shane. Excellent coverage.


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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*



PeterM said:


> Great detail review Shane!
> 
> But can i ask or try something for me on your testing of the Defiant 30?
> 
> I wanted to know if you move the draw stops back one spot from the intended position I.E. A in the A peg, to one extra stop back say mod A draw stop in B etc, etc through the range until you obviously cannot do the mod E longer, so besides the increase in draw length, what does the let-off go to and does the back wall still firm?
> 
> Pete.


I did cover that in one of the tuning options in the thread. 

The backwall wasn't as firm and you do get a little more let-off. Now if you incorporated the limb stop that would give you the firmer backwall. I was still able to tweak things with cam rotation to get clean vertical nock travel, which is the most important thing to maintain. 


Your welcome guys !!!!
Glad it was helpful to you 


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## BrokenLimbs

ontarget7 said:


> I did cover that in one of the tuning options in the thread.
> 
> The backwall wasn't as firm and you do get a little more let-off. Now if you incorporated the limb stop that would give you the firmer backwall. I was still able to tweak things with cam rotation to get clean vertical nock travel, which is the most important thing to maintain.k


I was wondering about that too. ~ And if that's something you can safely do (move the peg back one further than specified) without risks?


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## Clocked92

I have a question about the strings on the new Hoyts. My pro shop is 2.5 hours away and I will be going to get my bow set up by them once It comes in. I am thinking about going with a peep that doesn't have the tubing on it and have it served in. My worry is that they'll put it in, and after a week or two of shooting, my string will stretch and I'll have to go get a twist put in my string to square up the peep again. I don't have the new limb adaptors or know of a shop closer that will have them (or that I trust). 


Approximately how much do the new Hoyt strings stretch, and after how many shots? I assume that after all your testing you would have seen some string stretch.


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## LongIslandHunt

Clocked92 said:


> I have a question about the strings on the new Hoyts. My pro shop is 2.5 hours away and I will be going to get my bow set up by them once It comes in. I am thinking about going with a peep that doesn't have the tubing on it and have it served in. My worry is that they'll put it in, and after a week or two of shooting, my string will stretch and I'll have to go get a twist put in my string to square up the peep again. I don't have the new limb adaptors or know of a shop closer that will have them (or that I trust).
> 
> 
> Approximately how much do the new Hoyt strings stretch, and after how many shots? I assume that after all your testing you would have seen some string stretch.


I probably have put about 60 shots or so with my defiant and I have not noticed any additional stretching like i did after the first 10-15 shots... will than change? I hope not!


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## ontarget7

As far as stretch and peep rotation they are pretty decent. Now serving separation, that is where they need attention. It is only cosmetic but IMO they could do much better in this area. They really need to go to a smaller diameter serving to accommodate the 28 strand count strings. 











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## BrokenLimbs

Clocked92 said:


> I have a question about the strings on the new Hoyts. My pro shop is 2.5 hours away and I will be going to get my bow set up by them once It comes in. I am thinking about going with a peep that doesn't have the tubing on it and have it served in. My worry is that they'll put it in, and after a week or two of shooting, my string will stretch and I'll have to go get a twist put in my string to square up the peep again. I don't have the new limb adaptors or know of a shop closer that will have them (or that I trust).
> 
> 
> Approximately how much do the new Hoyt strings stretch, and after how many shots? I assume that after all your testing you would have seen some string stretch.


Usually you can keep twisting the peep back and to a point the string can obtain memory after stretching to deal with "peep rotation." But....
If you're worried about this, there's supposedly a little "secret" that will allow you to correct this! (I haven't needed/tried it. I use quick install "monkey tail" style silencers on everything.) Regardless, it'something you'll need to plan for, so have one installed by the dealer (with a bow press) before you take the bow home. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiHgXMabfHA

Just to avoid the annoyances, I'm going to put one on my string next time I press it. (I just learned about it this past spring.)


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## g_whitcomb

LongIslandHunt said:


> I probably have put about 60 shots or so with my defiant and I have not noticed any additional stretching like i did after the first 10-15 shots... will than change? I hope not!


All of my previous Hoyts have settled in after 20-30 shots. As long as you can shoot a bit at the shop you should be good when you leave. I personally don't think the factory strings are that bad.


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## fountain

ontarget7 said:


> As far as stretch and peep rotation they are pretty decent. Now serving separation, that is where they need attention. It is only cosmetic but IMO they could do much better in this area. They really need to go to a smaller diameter serving to accommodate the 28 strand count strings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same thing my shop guy is saying as well. Mainly, thst they could tighten up the center serving more and other would be a good bit better...that and swapping the spacers around on the bottom at the factory


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## LongIslandHunt

I really can't add anything to a great review, but I got my bow chronoed at a shop and according to OT2 I should been around 240fps with a 410 grain arrow with 27in draw @ 55lbs.. 

defiant 30 chronoed at 251fps...

Very happy with it and the best part is, I feel I can shoot it for a few hours without any problem..


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## CDoskocil9

PM Sent


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## Wack'EM

Tagged


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## chevellenut

shane.... i am curious if you expect any improvements by changing out the factory string to hogwires or the like?


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## Securis

Great Review Shane! I must've read it a least 3 times over in anticipation of a DT 70# i just placed an order for.

I'm only just worried about the bow press. I've got a bowmaster press which i keep around just in case. I don't suppose it would work in a pinch with the new DT? I do normally let the techs at the shop set things up, but i know they aren't nearly as thorough as i would like to be. Can't blame them though, there are only so many hours in a day.

thanks again!


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## Hogwire Strings

dude,,,,, clean your bench! :tongue:



ontarget7 said:


> Here are few pics to tide you over before I get started on setup. I will give you the full breakdown, from start to finish, including fine tuning with bareshafts and what it takes to get you to that point.
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> The first thing you will notice right off the bat is the overall balance of the bow and the overall light feel to it, even coming in at 4# it just felt lighter.
> 
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## va limbhanger

Shane, your a "Bow Tuning Machine" there's no doubt! I just started reading this thread because I ordered a Carbon Defiant (lefty) the other day. I figure if I read a 5-10 posts a week I'll just get finished by the time my bow gets here 
Thanks for all your excellent guidance!


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## duggerdb

Great review, really want a defiant even more now[emoji3] 

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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

Thanks guys [emoji106]🏼[emoji106]🏼[emoji106]🏼
Your welcome !!!!

Just a follow up with cam synch and the #3 cams. I have not done another #2 cam since the review but the #3 cams have been coming in with top cam just a hair hitting ahead as usual. This puts them on par with the Hoyts the last couple of years. Not sure if I just got a odd one or what, having to run the top cam hitting behind a little on the #2 for the review. 

Will follow up with more info when I get another #2 cam in to compare from the original review. 


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## BrokenLimbs

va limbhanger said:


> Shane, your a "Bow Tuning Machine" there's no doubt! I just started reading this thread because I ordered a Carbon Defiant (lefty) the other day. I figure if I read a 5-10 posts a week I'll just get finished by the time my bow gets here
> Thanks for all your excellent guidance!


Just curious... Did they indicate when the LH risers were expected?


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## chevellenut

chevellenut said:


> shane.... i am curious if you expect any improvements by changing out the factory string to hogwires or the like?


^^^


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## ontarget7

I am only seeing a couple feet per second faster at best with custom strings. 

The improvement comes in the overall diameter of string material and serving being tighter and smaller tracking through the cams. You will have far less serving separation and they will hold together a lot better than factory. 

Definitely improvements in this area. 


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## va limbhanger

BrokenLimbs said:


> Just curious... Did they indicate when the LH risers were expected?


No, but that's nothing new. I'm thinking June.

Shane, I m not sure it's been asked about a "perfect sized stringset" for the 2016 DFX cams. I know you said too many strands and servings are not great, but what would be your preferred string material/strand count, and serving materials? I don't think your a string builder (yet), but wouldn't be surprised if you've already discussed this with a few custom string builders.


----------



## wisbooner3932

Tagged


----------



## Ckeifer86

Tagged, making me glad I didn't get the nitrum last year. Gotta go shoot a defiant 30 for myself just to make the wife happy, then I think it's time for an upgrade from the Turbohawk I've been shooting.


----------



## 573mms

Every time I look at the carbon defiant 31 the better it looks and the more I want it. But the longer it takes them to get out the more worried I get about the probablems they are having with them. The carbon defiant 31 is definitely a good looking bow though!


----------



## fountain

At a quick glance, my cam isn't quite like yours where the limb stop goes. Mine doesn't have the letters, it has hash marks to line up with. I worder why they changed that?


----------



## ontarget7

Are you referring to the limb stop slot ?


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## MossyO'Man

Yes he is. my D34 is the same way. No letters just tick marks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ontarget7

Probably due to the letters not being exact depending on draw length slot. 

The demo bow I had landed almost spot on but have had others that were not. 

To many variables to be spot on and probably why you see the ones coming out with just the hash marks now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MossyO'Man

ontarget7 said:


> Probably due to the letters not being exact depending on draw length slot.
> 
> The demo bow I had landed almost spot on but have had others that were not.
> 
> To many variables to be spot on and probably why you see the ones coming out with just the hash marks now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will say that your tail high tear results coincided with my tuning as well. The stops definitely need to hit dead on at the same time or bottom just a tiny tiny bit ahead. I had tuned it initially like any of my other Hoyt's. Top stop hitting slightly ahead, but I would get tail high no matter what I did. Still grouped awesome, but bugged me nonetheless. I took out all my twists and got them dead on the same. Boom. Bullet holes and bare shafts good to go. Draw still feels great and back wall still rock solid. Thanks for posting your progress, it really helped me at a time I was a little baffled. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ontarget7

MossyO'Man said:


> I will say that your tail high tear results coincided with my tuning as well. The stops definitely need to hit dead on at the same time or bottom just a tiny tiny bit ahead. I had tuned it initially like any of my other Hoyt's. Top stop hitting slightly ahead, but I would get tail high no matter what I did. Still grouped awesome, but bugged me nonetheless. I took out all my twists and got them dead on the same. Boom. Bullet holes and bare shafts good to go. Draw still feels great and back wall still rock solid. Thanks for posting your progress, it really helped me at a time I was a little baffled.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your welcome !
Was yours a #2 cam ?


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## MossyO'Man

ontarget7 said:


> Your welcome !
> Was yours a #2 cam ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes #2


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## deergrizzly

very informational thanks


----------



## fountain

here are pics of mine


----------



## Etheis

My customers are liking the new ridge reaper camo! Here's a recent customers setup


----------



## huntinkyhl

Here it is in brown. Love the bow.


----------



## ontarget7

Nice guys !!!
That 30 is a sweet shooter for sure. Great balance, quiet, just sits there on the shot and holds on target great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 918hoytman918

After finally seeing the ridge reaper in person today I'm not liking black riser with ridge reaper limbs. Going to stay all black or harvest brown defiant 34.


----------



## long4mtns

The blackouts are nice. The ridge reaper is nice too but agreed mixing the two is not for everyone.


----------



## GROSEN

long4mtns said:


> The blackouts are nice. The ridge reaper is nice too but agreed mixing the two is not for everyone.


Been saying the same thing from day one  i was sure it was just me as many seemed to like the RR limbs on here..


----------



## MR 28

Great review Shane. Very impressive. What benefits in your opinion would the carbon defiant have, if any?

Seems like a much longer wait but I ask as you seem set on the 30 defiant. Would you consider a 34 or rather. Would you think it to be even "more" stable?

I have a 27" draw so not sure which route to go. Shot the defiant 34 last week or so in the A slot. If go to the 30 it sin the #2. And if I go to the #3 cam its in the E.

Thanks! Incredible what you teach us here.


----------



## Clocked92

MR 28 said:


> Great review Shane. Very impressive. What benefits in your opinion would the carbon defiant have, if any?
> 
> Seems like a much longer wait but I ask as you seem set on the 30 defiant. Would you consider a 34 or rather. Would you think it to be even "more" stable?
> 
> I have a 27" draw so not sure which route to go. Shot the defiant 34 last week or so in the A slot. If go to the 30 it sin the #2. And if I go to the #3 cam its in the E.
> 
> Thanks! Incredible what you teach us here.


I just want to clear up your understanding of the Cams on the Defiants. If you went with the Defiant 30, you could only get it in the #2 cam at 27" draw. Then you'd be shooting in the C slot. On the 34, you could shoot the #1 cam in the E slot, or the #2 cam in the A slot.


----------



## MR 28

Thanks Clocked. Appreciate the help. Would any of the above options be more or less forgiving? What about speed? Or is it really a feel issue?
Thanks!


----------



## DirtNapNate

I shot both carbon and the the aluminum 34. You can probably guess which one i chose.


----------



## turkeygirl

How do the Defiant 30 and 34 compare? I'm thinking of getting a Defiant 30. I shot a 34 and was very impressed with the draw cycle and how stable the bow was in hand. Is the 30 also stable and smooth drawing? I'd be mainly bowhunting with it but may do a little 3D on the side.


----------



## thirdhandman

shim kit bump.


----------



## Outsider

Shane are you planing on making a video series of how you set up bow out of the box and then how you tune it?


----------



## ontarget7

Outsider said:


> Shane are you planing on making a video series of how you set up bow out of the box and then how you tune it?


It's going to be tough with my construction business starting to take off again, plus all the bow tuning. 

The only way I see it happen while keeping a healthy balance in life is to shut down the tuning for awhile. This would give me the time to do nothing but the videos in my spare time, which is currently taken up by the bow tuning. 


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## Outsider

ontarget7 said:


> It's going to be tough with my construction business starting to take off again, plus all the bow tuning.
> 
> The only way I see it happen while keeping a healthy balance in life is to shut down the tuning for awhile. This would give me the time to do nothing but the videos in my spare time, which is currently taken up by the bow tuning.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was just wondering. You explain everything very easy. No hard to understand words and process. I would love to see a video series from you. Of course won't mind to pay for it :wink:


----------



## DirtNapNate

turkeygirl said:


> How do the Defiant 30 and 34 compare? I'm thinking of getting a Defiant 30. I shot a 34 and was very impressed with the draw cycle and how stable the bow was in hand. Is the 30 also stable and smooth drawing? I'd be mainly bowhunting with it but may do a little 3D on the side.


Well, the 34 is a longer draw and a longer bow. It would be good for hunting and 3d because it's almost as long as a target bow. It's kind of a cross between hunting and target. The minimum draw is 29" and minimum poundage 70. I have one


----------



## ontarget7

Outsider said:


> I was just wondering. You explain everything very easy. No hard to understand words and process. I would love to see a video series from you. Of course won't mind to pay for it :wink:


I would sure like to make it happen. There is a lot of info to cover and at the same time, it can be very easy to understand when done right. 




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## Outsider

ontarget7 said:


> I would sure like to make it happen. There is a lot of info to cover and at the same time, it can be very easy to understand when done right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What I like is you don't go into that deep stuff. You just say "add here remove from here". I'm the kind of person that like to know how to fix it instead of why this is happening.


----------



## ontarget7

Outsider said:


> What I like is you don't go into that deep stuff. You just say "add here remove from here". I'm the kind of person that like to know how to fix it instead of why this is happening.


The whys can be explained as well and it doesn't need to be a long dragged out process


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## Outsider

Shane think about it


----------



## HuskyKMA

DirtNapNate said:


> Well, the 34 is a longer draw and a longer bow. It would be good for hunting and 3d because it's almost as long as a target bow. It's kind of a cross between hunting and target. The minimum draw is 29" and minimum poundage 70. I have one


Dude this is just wrong. You can get a Defiant 34 from 25" to 31" draw length and from 30 to 80 lb draw weight.


----------



## DJ Trout

Ok Shane, I need help........... Got my Defiant 30.

55-65# #2 cam 26-28"

I'm running it in the B slot for a 26.5" draw length and it feels like it wants to take off big time at full draw and it;'s driving me nuts.

The bow has stock strings on it.

I've owned 3 hoyts prior and never had this issue.

What are my options to fix the problem? Cam Timing? Cable or string twisting? Something else? 

Should I have gotten a #1 cam although it only goes up to 26" draw?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## ontarget7

Need to know where all your current setting from a tuning standpoint are now, mainly cam synch and are you shooting with the limb stop ?


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## DJ Trout

I've tried with and without and got the same result. 

The cam timing looks good but it feels like I'm not fully into the valley.


----------



## ontarget7

Looks good and is good is two different things. Need to know if your cams are hitting at the same time, top ahead, bottom ahead etc. They might be under rotated as well causing this. I would ditch the limb stop all together until you get cam synch correct 


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## DJ Trout

Ok... I'll verify the cam timing again on a draw board. 

How do you adjust under rotation?


----------



## ontarget7

Twisting cables 


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## ontarget7

What is peak weight ?


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## DJ Trout

The peak weight is 65#. 

I have it set at 60# right now.


----------



## ontarget7

What are your limbs 65 or 70# ?


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## ontarget7

*Hoyt Defiant 30 in for a full review &gt;&gt;---------&gt;*

Never mind, just saw it in your other post. If it's only peaking at 65 then you might have a combo of cam synch issues as well as slightly under rotated cams


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## Kris87

DJ Trout said:


> Ok Shane, I need help........... Got my Defiant 30.
> 
> 55-65# #2 cam 26-28"
> 
> I'm running it in the B slot for a 26.5" draw length and it feels like it wants to take off big time at full draw and it;'s driving me nuts.
> 
> The bow has stock strings on it.
> 
> I've owned 3 hoyts prior and never had this issue.
> 
> What are my options to fix the problem? Cam Timing? Cable or string twisting? Something else?
> 
> Should I have gotten a #1 cam although it only goes up to 26" draw?
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks


I have a Defiant 30 a friend sent me for tuning/shooting that I've had for a couple weeks now. I can say that I feel your pain, as I don't like it at all. I'm as hardcore Hoyt guy as anyone on this forum, and I'm not impressed with the Defiant 30, other than its quiet. If you're used to the valley of the Z5 cams, or even the RKT cams, then it will take you time to get used to the 75% that this bow is giving you. I've put the cam sync all over the place, put the draw stop all over the place, and I still haven't found a position I like from this bow. I'm shooting this bow at 28.5, 70#. I've been shooting it back to back with all my personal bows, which are a CS30 ZT, CST ZT, and a CS34 to get a good feel for how the cam feels. I just don't like it.


----------



## Kris87

And for anyone curious about the string angle of the bow, it was legit. I put the Defiant 30 and my CS34, both at same specs, in my draw board for measurements. The Defiant a #3 cam, my 34 a #2 cam. They both measured exactly 32.5" from top/bottom of each cams. The string angle was basically identical where I measured it at 26" on the board.


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## noxninja

Beautiful bow


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## ontarget7

I haven't seen a 75% let off yet out of them
For me, same holding weight as previous year


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## hobbs4421

Man, it looks like you know your stuff! I am impressed! Thanks for sharing with us! I am interested in this exact bow, and may have to pick your brain in the future when I am closer to buying my bow.


----------



## DJ Trout

Kris87 said:


> I have a Defiant 30 a friend sent me for tuning/shooting that I've had for a couple weeks now. I can say that I feel your pain, as I don't like it at all. I'm as hardcore Hoyt guy as anyone on this forum, and I'm not impressed with the Defiant 30, other than its quiet. If you're used to the valley of the Z5 cams, or even the RKT cams, then it will take you time to get used to the 75% that this bow is giving you. I've put the cam sync all over the place, put the draw stop all over the place, and I still haven't found a position I like from this bow. I'm shooting this bow at 28.5, 70#. I've been shooting it back to back with all my personal bows, which are a CS30 ZT, CST ZT, and a CS34 to get a good feel for how the cam feels. I just don't like it.


Wow.....Just what I didn't want to hear! I was hoping it would be a simple adjustment to get things right. 

I am beyond frustrated right now.


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## DoWorkSon

I have a Defiant 30 I just setup as my shop shooter bow, and I am having none of the problems listed here. Cam lean on the bottom was PERFECT, as the cable is hitting the stop while almost touching the cam.

By far one of the BEST HOYTs I have ever shot.


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## ontarget7

Haven't seen them either
Measured holding weight is pretty darn near the same as last year


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## Kris87

ontarget7 said:


> Haven't seen them either
> Measured holding weight is pretty darn near the same as last year
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It could be because its in the B slot on this 3 cam. It has a distinctly different feel than the Z5 cam. The transition into the valley is much different. I have my CS30 setup exactly the same as this Defiant, so its a good comparison to draw and shoot them back to back, both #3 cams in the B slot. I broke my scale last week, but my new one will be here today. I'll measure the holding weights of each tonight.


----------



## Kris87

And I'm not saying the holding weight is gonna be much different either. IMO, the length of the valley on the DFX cam isn't as long as the Z5. If you shoot them back to back to back, its easy to feel it.


----------



## DJ Trout

Kris87 said:


> And I'm not saying the holding weight is gonna be much different either. IMO, the length of the valley on the DFX cam isn't as long as the Z5. If you shoot them back to back to back, its easy to feel it.


This is exactly what I'm getting.


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## ontarget7

It's going to be different due to the peak weight being pushed up front a little more and no large drop off on the back end, it's more a smooth transition all the way back. 


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## Steveo77

Great review ..tagged


----------



## lexixel

great review!


----------



## ontarget7

Thanks guys

Here is a Ridge Reaper Defiant 30 #3 cam I will be starting on 











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## EsteemGrinders

So I have a buddy that got a Defiant 30 a couple weeks ago. This bow has 1.5-2" nock high tear that will not change with any amount of tuning. This bow is 65# max and 27.5" draw. I have told him this bow needs to be sent back to Hoyt and fixed. He is old school and says it shoots great now even with the tear. what I can not get through to him is that when he tries to BH tune it is very unlikely he will get them to tune correctly. Any ideas on what we can do to fix this without sending it back. Maybe swapping top and bottom limbs. Fyi we set up another 30 in the same specs for him and got the same results. Im guessing this is just not a good tuning draw length on this cam.


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## ontarget7

The #2 cam I have found may give some issues and so far have not seen those same issues in the #3 cam. 

I have been able to work around them in the #2 cam for the most part but it can cause one to pull their hair out. 


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## MELLY-MEL

ontarget7 said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> Here is a Ridge Reaper Defiant 30 #3 cam I will be starting on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sexy!


----------



## ontarget7

Defiant 30 #3 cam C slot

Tuned up like a dream ! Now if the #2 cams followed suite, it would be to easy [emoji12]











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## Ethan Smith

ontarget7 said:


> Defiant 30 #3 cam C slot
> 
> Tuned up like a dream ! Now if the #2 cams followed suite, it would be to easy [emoji12]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you suspect that the Carbon Defiants will tune similarly to the aluminums? Not only in the same aspects, but also same issues for #2 cam across the board, etc? 

Or are they just a completely different beast?


2015 Carbon Spyder Turbo - 27"/70#Harvest Brown w/ Realtree Xtra limbs

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----------



## ontarget7

From what I have heard they lowered the grip on the carbons to match the aluminums so I would expect similar results 


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----------



## ontarget7

Ethan Smith said:


> Do you suspect that the Carbon Defiants will tune similarly to the aluminums? Not only in the same aspects, but also same issues for #2 cam across the board, etc?
> 
> Or are they just a completely different beast?
> 
> 
> 2015 Carbon Spyder Turbo - 27"/70#Harvest Brown w/ Realtree Xtra limbs
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now if your referring to the 15 carbons the grip is a little higher, should be just fine


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----------



## Ethan Smith

ontarget7 said:


> Now if your referring to the 15 carbons the grip is a little higher, should be just fine
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope, referring to the 16's. My shop just got one in, but if the upgrades are as good as everyone says they are, I may end up with one. I shoot my '15 pretty well though.


2015 Carbon Spyder Turbo - 27"/70#Harvest Brown w/ Realtree Xtra limbs

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## long4mtns

Shane - awesome as always. Do you think the issue with the #2 cam on Defiant 30 will be prevalent with the Defiant 34 as well?


----------



## ontarget7

long4mtns said:


> Shane - awesome as always. Do you think the issue with the #2 cam on Defiant 30 will be prevalent with the Defiant 34 as well?


Not sure bro 

I am thinking it has to be something in the difference between the make up and take out of the cam tracks from the #3 to the #2 cam. 

The lower grip is just making it so you synch your cams with top cam hitting ahead a thing of the past. These are just a hair ahead not like a 1/16 to 1/8. This is really no big deal due to the cable loads being higher, thus firming up the back wall when they hit at darn near the same time. 

Just can't quite pin point the tail high issue that might arise with the #2 cams


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----------



## jumptruck

Shane have you done any tuning with the number 2 cam or is this just a common problem you are hearing about? Do you think the turbos would set up the same I have one on order in number 2?

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----------



## ontarget7

jumptruck said:


> Shane have you done any tuning with the number 2 cam or is this just a common problem you are hearing about? Do you think the turbos would set up the same I have one on order in number 2?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


First hand experience and hearing about it from others as well


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----------



## A CASE DEEP

ontarget7 said:


> First hand experience and hearing about it from others as well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You tinkered with a Turbo yet?


----------



## ontarget7

Yes, not enough yet to elaborate on an open forum 


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----------



## A CASE DEEP

ontarget7 said:


> Yes, not enough yet to elaborate on an open forum
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I understand. Whats your initial thoughts? I love mine. Wanted to see how you think it stacks up with the '15 Turbo.


----------



## ontarget7

Good so far

I have a Defiant Carbon Turbo on order [emoji2]


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----------



## g_whitcomb

fountain said:


> At a quick glance, my cam isn't quite like yours where the limb stop goes. Mine doesn't have the letters, it has hash marks to line up with. I worder why they changed that?





ontarget7 said:


> Probably due to the letters not being exact depending on draw length slot.
> 
> The demo bow I had landed almost spot on but have had others that were not.
> 
> To many variables to be spot on and probably why you see the ones coming out with just the hash marks now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine has the letters. #3 cams , D slot, top cam ahead by 1/16" and my limb stop isn't even close to the letters matching up! Wish I just had the hash marks cause it really bugs me, lol


----------



## rok1167

monkeyed with the 30 for a couple hours today. near synced perfect with the bottom hitting literally a micron before the top. took a half twist out of the cable which changed it to the top hitting 1/16 before bottom. is there a way to get them to hit exact as it seems the half twist is the smallest adjustment possible and it was too much?

due to other commitments i can't screw with it for a couple days so i'm dying to know if it's possible.

couple side notes, the back wall is very solid without the limb stop. i havent installed the limb stop yet but intend to do so when i get a chance. it was on the c setting when i picked it up. moved it to the e setting and the top cam was hitting 1/2" to 3/4" before the bottom so if shops simply change the module and not re-sync for demo shooting, that's really sad.


----------



## LongIslandHunt

Curious what issues you have, my defiant 30 is a number 2 - paper tuning and bare shafts - no issues with either..


----------



## Larry brown

I paper tuned mine today and shot perfect. Had to move nocking point up a little but that's it. Was as easy as my chill r was. Only problem I had was Blazers were hitting cables slightly so I twisted the arrow a touch and no problems now.


----------



## Chris018

I have a Defiant 34 on order. due to shooting left handed I am in for a 6 week wait. Also ordered the Axcel Accutouch pro. same wait time lol. Any thoughts on the accutouch I am currently shooting the CBE Tek Hybrid Pro. how does the Axcel compare to the CBE ?


----------



## Avidbowhunter77

Sweet


----------



## Avidbowhunter77

Looks nice


----------



## Avidbowhunter77

It is light weight and shoots smooth


----------



## Avidbowhunter77

What's the msrp?


----------



## Avidbowhunter77

$1100? $1000?


----------



## Ethan Smith

Ontarget, or anyone else for that matter, how much will the limb deflection change if I were to change out a #3 cam for a #2. It's probably not worth it monetarily, but I can't find one for me (or my wife's) specs. Looking to possibly trade my Carbon Spyder ZT Turbo for one.


2015 Carbon Spyder Turbo - 27"/70#Harvest Brown w/ Realtree Xtra limbs

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----------



## centershot

ontarget7 said:


> Just to be clear
> 1/4" gain with limbs backed out 10 pounds under peak weight
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How much did the draw length grow when backed out 10#?


----------



## centershot

Avidbowhunter77 said:


> What's the msrp?


My dealer is selling the camo 30's for $949, 34's for $1049 - Custom colors another $100


----------



## g_whitcomb

ontarget7 said:


> The varying results comes from shops not re timing the cams when changing draw length. When these cams are timed you literally don't feel anything on the shot. Without question the best feeling Hoyt's to date.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just bareshaft tuned my Defiant this afternoon. Took the Carbon Spyder ZT30 out for comparison and man am I disappointed. My Defiant is far superior in every way! So quiet and shoots like a dream. I never thought I would consider parting with my American Heritage but I'm thinking bad thoughts [emoji83]


----------



## Clocked92

I picked up my Defiant 30 on the weekend. Haven't really had a chance to fully set my center shot and yokes yet, but I will hopefully this weekend. When I picked up the bow, and shot it, I did notice a little bit of vibration in it, I put on a stabilizer and it went away but I still knew something wasn't right. I had tested a Defiant in November that had no vibe even without a stabilizer. My cams are perfectly synced so I really got looking. I noticed that my string stop was about 3/32" off of my string at rest. I adjusted the string stop to be just touching the string at rest and went and shot again. It made a World of difference! The bow had absolutely no vibe anymore and it is absolutely whisper quiet! 

I know it's such a simple thing to overlook, but it really made a huge improvement in overall feel and noise. Just another thing to look at when setting these bows up. I almost assumed that it would be in the right position from factory which is why I didn't think to check it.


----------



## huntertroy

GreenAcres said:


> I just bareshaft tuned my Defiant this afternoon. Took the Carbon Spyder ZT30 out for comparison and man am I disappointed. My Defiant is far superior in every way! So quiet and shoots like a dream. I never thought I would consider parting with my American Heritage but I'm thinking bad thoughts [emoji83]


Did you have any issues getting it to bare shaft tune and what cam size? Thanks


----------



## g_whitcomb

huntertroy said:


> Did you have any issues getting it to bare shaft tune and what cam size? Thanks


Not really. Yoke tuning went pretty standard cam timing was a bit tougher with the draw stop and all. My only issue I have is I'm in between twists with the control cable, half twist either way and I go ever so slightly nock high or low? I'm tinkering with nock height a bit but it doesn't seem to be doing much? I need to find a way to tweak cam timing less than a half twist. I'm pretty sure I can use the yokes but am afraid of messing up the left/right nock cause it's perfect.
#3 cam, 29.5" @ 62lbs


----------



## huntertroy

You can definitely fine tune timing using the yokes. Just be sure to do the same to both sides and youll be fine

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## g_whitcomb

huntertroy said:


> You can definitely fine tune timing using the yokes. Just be sure to do the same to both sides and youll be fine
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


I've tried it but because of the different loads on each side I've discovered equal isn't always the same. I'll mess around with it this weekend.


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## rangstng

My #2 cam Defiant 30 tuned up great. It is set at 26.5 inch draw 13/16 center shot, nock is square and both stops set dead even. This is what it looks like in paper and bare shaft


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## Clocked92

Just a question for you guys setting these up. I had my rest set up at 13/16 off the riser. I haven't had a chance to paper tune or shoot bareshafts yet but I did take it out to 20 and 30 yards already just to see. I am dead on at 20 yards but I can tell I'm getting some erratic flight based on the angle the arrows are hitting the target. At 30 yards, my arrows are a couple inches left of my 20 yard arrow when doing a walk back tune method. Should I adjust my rest first to get them in a vertical line, then set my sight, and then play with yokes some?


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## MossyO'Man

Clocked92 said:


> Just a question for you guys setting these up. I had my rest set up at 13/16 off the riser. I haven't had a chance to paper tune or shoot bareshafts yet but I did take it out to 20 and 30 yards already just to see. I am dead on at 20 yards but I can tell I'm getting some erratic flight based on the angle the arrows are hitting the target. At 30 yards, my arrows are a couple inches left of my 20 yard arrow when doing a walk back tune method. Should I adjust my rest first to get them in a vertical line, then set my sight, and then play with yokes some?


You should shoot through paper first. Get an acceptable hole in paper then walk back tune and/or French tune. But......if paper isn't an option, then try moving your rest. Ultimately you will end up doing all of these things, so why not start from the beginning.


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## g_whitcomb

GreenAcres said:


> Not really. Yoke tuning went pretty standard cam timing was a bit tougher with the draw stop and all. My only issue I have is I'm in between twists with the control cable, half twist either way and I go ever so slightly nock high or low? I'm tinkering with nock height a bit but it doesn't seem to be doing much? I need to find a way to tweak cam timing less than a half twist. I'm pretty sure I can use the yokes but am afraid of messing up the left/right nock cause it's perfect.
> #3 cam, 29.5" @ 62lbs


I've got it fixed today. It however looks like my #3 cam likes the bottom cam ever so slightly ahead of the top. I'm not going to worry about it because with the limb stop the wall is still solid. It is shooting the best of any Hoyt I've owned.


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## Gruder

Unbelievable review but I've been waiting for the long range shooting test Shane mentioned. I think you guys ask so many questions he has no time to go out n shoot lol. I would do the same if I had this bow&#55357;&#56397;&#55356;&#57339;


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## rustin9989

nice!


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## rustin9989

nice shooting!


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## g_whitcomb

GreenAcres said:


> I've got it fixed today. It however looks like my #3 cam likes the bottom cam ever so slightly ahead of the top. I'm not going to worry about it because with the limb stop the wall is still solid. It is shooting the best of any Hoyt I've owned.


Well it looks like my factory threads are like the weather, just wait a few minutes and it will change ! I've been chasing my tail. Shot fantastic the other day and really bad yesterday. Checking out the timing and it's off. Reset the timing and shot great for a bit and went bad. Put it on the draw board and in about 3 minutes you can watch the timing change. Looks like I'm getting some pretty new green threads after all


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## Larry brown

That's weird I have shot mine 500 shots or more and after installed peep after 100 shots I haven't had any movement or anything. I will recheck timing tonight but it appears to be on with the way it's sending the arrows down range.


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## Clocked92

I have had my defiant 30 out to shoot a couple times already and probably have about 100 shots on the strings so far. I have noticed an ever so slight peep rotation from when I brought it home. I also noticed that my cams aren't synced perfectly anymore with the bottom one hitting about 1/16" before the top cam. The Back wall isn't as solid which is what made me notice it. I will take my bow in to get retuned but I want to make sure the stretching is done. Any way to know if it's all settled? Or do I just shoot it until I notice it's not really moving anymore?


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## Larry brown

I would say shoot 100 times before peep install(which you already have) the install peep. But since you have it installed I would shoot it till you notice the peep has stopped rotating, retune and you should be good. You are prob good now just retune and should be done. But everyone has different opinions on stock strings I have always had good luck. But if after a month it does it again just get aftermarket strings and be done.


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## g_whitcomb

Larry brown said:


> That's weird I have shot mine 500 shots or more and after installed peep after 100 shots I haven't had any movement or anything. I will recheck timing tonight but it appears to be on with the way it's sending the arrows down range.


This is the first set of factory threads I've had problems with. My Nitrum was set and good for the duration. My cam timing on my Defiant just will not hold? Peep rotation is fine but I give up on the other.


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## Larry brown

GreenAcres said:


> This is the first set of factory threads I've had problems with. My Nitrum was set and good for the duration. My cam timing on my Defiant just will not hold? Peep rotation is fine but I give up on the other.


You may just have a bad set. I would replace if they are giving you that much trouble from a good builder.


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## Buckdundee

Tag

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## BrokenLimbs

Just wanted to throw this out there: Unlike the #3 cams which always felt good to me, I've been critical of all the #2 cam hoyt bows for being harsh. (Needing a #2 cam/27.5 in. draw, has always been the deal breaker against both owning & hunting with a 70# Hoyt bow.) But today I had the opportunity to shoot the new 2016 "pro-staff owned" #2 LH carbon 31 Hoyt today. It was 65#, not 70# as I'm accustomed to, so it's a little light in the poundage...... But to my surprise, it was SMOOOOTH and neither jumpy or harsh! Trying to make a comparison from memory: It closely reminded me of my 70# Chill-R before I softened the draw with the 85% rock mods. (Which I think I'm going to get rid of because I don't shoot quite as tight groups with the rock mods.)

The bow was fully setup for hunting and boy did it have a nice balance in the hand. The two things that surprised me the most were: 1.) How settled this bow felt at full draw (stable and not jumpy), and 2.) How quiet it was. I'm thinking that it might just be the quietest bow I've ever drawn/shot. (Quieter than my Carnage? Quieter than my Chill-R? I think so, and they're known to be extremely quiet bows.) My buddy thought the same thing.

It had the limb stop added (didn't realize it until I asked afterwards.) And it had the standard grip. I wish I had the chance to try it with side plates...... That would closer resemble my Chill-R with the Focus grip which have become accustomed to (shooting with a low wrist.)

I was very impressed by this bow. I"ve been "trying to justify getting a Hoyt for years, mostly for the bridged riser design, and more recently for the carbon riser. The 2016 31 in. carbon is the first #2 cam Hoyt I've had the opportunity to shoot that actually felt right to me. ~ My buddy (who also shot it) has last years carbon, and his words were: "Wish I had waited one more year!"


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## Fall_Rut

Thanks for the great review and comments. I've been reading through as I'm in the market for a new bow this year - coming from a Maxxis 31, should be a HUGE difference to say the least (and I really like that Maxxis). Was considering this, the Halon, and Elite. This review (and your review on the Halon) talked me down from the ledge - I am curious about the new Elite Impulse 31 though... but the Defiant sounds VERY nice. I'll have to go try it...


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## scfletch

Great thread. Thanks.


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## g_whitcomb

So I got my new threads and have shot them in. Cams are timed and now holding, arrow is hitting nock level but now I can't for the life of me get rid of the nock right?? I had it good with the stock strings, haven't moved the rest?? Twisted the yokes but no luck. With the new strings it doesn't matter which yoke goes to which side does it? If not should I start with equal twists in both like they would come from the builder? I have recorded every twist of every cable so I could go back if needed.


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## ontarget7

Glad you enjoyed the review !! 
Hope it's helpful to get you dialed in 


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## Larry brown

GreenAcres said:


> So I got my new threads and have shot them in. Cams are timed and now holding, arrow is hitting nock level but now I can't for the life of me get rid of the nock right?? I had it good with the stock strings, haven't moved the rest?? Twisted the yokes but no luck. With the new strings it doesn't matter which yoke goes to which side does it? If not should I start with equal twists in both like they would come from the builder? I have recorded every twist of every cable so I could go back if needed.



I may be wrong but I thing one leg is longer than the other and it would go to the left side if you are behind the bow. Usually on the ones I have seen that leg doesn't have as many twist in it.


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## Kris87

If you put equal twists in the yoke legs, then you likely have a lot of prelean, which would cause you a nock right tear. You're going to need more in the right yoke leg to get the lean correct. Fix that first.


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## Jpkyle124

Great info!


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## ShrtRnd

An hour after opening the box, I managed this from the new Defiant 30 #65 @29.5" 400gr CE Maxima Blu RZs at just under 20yrds (witnessed). 

Thanks for the write-up & tips Shane!


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## THE ELKMAN

Very nice! I guess they do work a little bit. No need to send it back and denounce them then I guess... LMAO!!!!!!


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## rok1167

stock rig was at 288 fps with no limb stop. put new strings on and was at 289 fps, with near perfect bare shaft, slight nock high. I lost 2-3 fps after tying in the peep, changing the dloop, and adding the limb stop. any idea why that would happen?

first full set of stings I've made, turned out pretty good.


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## Ethan Smith

rok1167 said:


> stock rig was at 288 fps with no limb stop. put new strings on and was at 289 fps, with near perfect bare shaft, slight nock high. I lost 2-3 fps after tying in the peep, changing the dloop, and adding the limb stop. any idea why that would happen?
> 
> first full set of stings I've made, turned out pretty good.


Were you shooting with the peep in before? If not, that peep and serving to tie it in probably easily accounts for that speed loss.


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## rok1167

Ethan Smith said:


> Were you shooting with the peep in before? If not, that peep and serving to tie it in probably easily accounts for that speed loss.


the peep was in, just temporarily tied. the decrease was after i served it in. so really only added 12" of serving weight.


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## ontarget7

Bump for those interested in a possible fix for the tail high issues. 

Lots of good info, post #89 refers to the tail high fix


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## Ethan Smith

ontarget7 said:


> Bump for those interested in a possible fix for the tail high issues.
> 
> Lots of good info, post #89 refers to the tail high fix
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent you a pm.




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## Bergs

I installed new strings and cables on mine and used a half inch longer string. Just trying to gain some draw length. After a few adjustments the bow was shooting amazing. Then I decided to add some speed buttons to gain a little more speed, that's when everything went heck. So off came the speed buttons. 
Lots of great info in this thread. Thanks everybody



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## Cajun83

Waiting for my synunm press and ultraflex adapters and just KNEW OT7 had a tuning thread all ready for me lol.. So subbed for future reference ☺

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## ontarget7

Glad it has helped out [emoji1360]


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## NewMexicoHunter

Ok. So I read through the first six pages. I'll have to take more time later to read the rest. I'm just not seeing any issues with mine. Maybe because I don't shoot bareshafts. I bought mine used and it had a set of 60x strings with no speed nocks. After talking with the previous owner he said he left them off because of the nock travel issue so I decided to just leave them off and tune from there. Set my rest at 3/4. Cam lean intersecting at d loop and cams hitting at the same time. Boom first three shots were bullet holes. I never even bothered with bareshafts. I figured the arrow is coming off clean from six feet so it should be good. Moved to broadhead tuning and they were hitting about five inches right of field points. Moved the rest to 13/16 and broadheads and field points came right together at 30. Centered my sight and set my pins and I've been good out to 70 with both. I was actually really surprised how quickly it tuned up because it took a little more tinkering with my spyder to get broadheads to hit with field points. Am I missing something?


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## NewMexicoHunter

Sorry broadheads were hitting left after paper tuning bumping my rest left cleared things up quickly.


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## ontarget7

Like I have stated many times, it varies with cam # and draw length. The issues have nothing to do with lateral nock travel, those are easy fixes to clean up


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## ontarget7

The Defiant 30 in the #3 cam C slot is money from a tuning standpoint. Great cam synch while maintaining clean vertical nock travel. 


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## NewMexicoHunter

Mines a carbon defiant 34 2 cam at 28.5 inches. This is the worst culprit from what I've read so far.


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## ontarget7

I have got more emails, text, PM's etc than any other year ever with guys having issues on the new Hoyt's. 

Depending on draw length and cam# you would see it even if you didn't shoot bareshafts. Fletched will have a high tear and broadheads will be low down range. Only fix with these ones are playing with rotating mods or having the bottom cam hit well before the top


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## NewMexicoHunter

I wonder if I would see these issues if I put the stock strings on with speed nocks. I've been tempted to try it but the bow is shooting so well right now that i really don't want to mess with things too much. Like I said I'm a noob when it comes to tuning. I put it on the draw board a few times to make sure cams were still hitting together since initial tuning and so far everything has stayed put but I wouldn't mind picking up the extra speed with the nocks. What do you think?


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## ontarget7

NewMexicoHunter said:


> I wonder if I would see these issues if I put the stock strings on with speed nocks. I've been tempted to try it but the bow is shooting so well right now that i really don't want to mess with things too much. Like I said I'm a noob when it comes to tuning. I put it on the draw board a few times to make sure cams were still hitting together since initial tuning and so far everything has stayed put but I wouldn't mind picking up the extra speed with the nocks. What do you think?


I would not put speed nocks if your good now. I have had similar results at certain draw lengths and better results without speed nocks. 
HyperEdge was the same way. I have got some to tune perfect bareshafts by having no speed nocks on the bottom cam at all but left them on the top. 




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## NewMexicoHunter

Ok I think I will just leave things be for now and play with it more when it's time for new threads. Thanks for the info!


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## BrokenLimbs

Wish I'd thought about this before committing to this bow.... (70# Carbon Defiant LH #2 cams)
And here's where I get condemned by AT for 15 years of poor shooting technique etc.

*Any tricks to increasing let-off at full draw without loosing much elsewhere?* First let me say I love the draw cycle. Like the valley. (And the way it holds too.) But what I seem to be struggling with is the extra 10% of let-off poundage and how it effects the release sear. Makes the "trigger" noticeably stiffer than my "tweaked and twisted shooting engine" is accustomed to. (75% let-off versus my 85% Chill-R w/Rock mods means 17+lbs. vs. 10+lbs. at full draw) Also makes me wonder whether lower let-off bows are better suited for a hinge style release? (I don't shoot hinge releases.)

Shooting this bow with the stiffer trigger I occasionally get a more of a surprise when "it doesn't trigger" because my mind thinks "something should have happened by now"..... (kind of like a firecracker that didn't go off. Is it a "dud or dangerous?" And that's where the problem manifests itself. (Happened infrequently at first, but it's becoming more frequent presumably because I'm worried about it lol. And it cost me a deer the other day, and I honestly usually never miss. I missed twice on the same deer at ~30 yards lol/col!)

Unless I really really really really really really focus, I'm just not consistently getting a clean surprise release with this bow. To the point where it's giving me the jitters sometimes, and that's exactly what happened on the first shot at the deer I missed. ~ I've tried a few different releases and played with throat lengths/trigger placement & styles etc. (And I know many of you will say I should be using a stiff trigger to begin with, but I've been shooting a fairly light trigger since I began shooting/hunting with a bow in 2003. It's always worked well for me, especially in a tree at awkward angles.)

PS: I don't want to try and lighten the trigger settings either. That's just asking for trouble/a release that doesn't hold pulling over the cams and/or letdown. Just had a "non adjustable" Scott Silverhorn (new style) give out on me and it didn't have many shots on it either. And the Rhino XT (to me) feels insanely stiff (even with the softest spring) with the 75% let-off..... Trying that made things much worse! Like I said, "poor technique" lol.​
My first thought was forget it, start hunting with the Chill-R. (That was a "deer killing machine" the past 2 seasons.) But I'm determined to get a deer with this bow so I'm shooting it for the remainder of the season. If I can't figure/work this out it's going up for sale when the season ends. Worth noting that when I get clean releases, I've shot some pretty amazingly tight groups (by my standards / 40 yards 3 arrows 2 inch groups) with this bow.

FWIW, with limbs turned up all the way to 70 lbs., the bow draws back like butter.


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## ontarget7

Just got back to where I changed the rotating mod setting and you will increase let-off. I also found it more friendly to clean vertical nock travel in that setting


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## BrokenLimbs

ontarget7 said:


> Just got back to where I changed the rotating mod setting and you will increase let-off. I also found it more friendly to clean vertical nock travel in that setting
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I assume you're suggesting I should/it's OK to go up one letter ONLY on the upper cam? (And leave the lower one where it is.)
As it is now, I know the extra 1/4 inch draw will not hurt.... Just kind of surprised that doing so will actually increase let-off.

Trying to find that post. I had read it a ways back but there's 500+ posts here now. I had marked it with a bookmark but I can't find the bookmark either lol.
(found it, but go up on top, or down on bottom, or will either boost letoff)

PS: I'm not using the draw stop peg.


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## ontarget7

Bump for the new crowd 


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