# bow balancer?



## bigHUN

*Does this count?*

























I don't have a BOM but I am sure you can improvise :wink:


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## Strodav

I took a 1/16" x 3/4" x 5" strip of aluminum and bent it into an upside down T and drilled a hole in it to hang it on a string. Slide it in between the limbs at the top cam hanging the bow from the ceiling. Makes it much easier to adjust stabilizers.


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## dua lam pa

your hand works best , other options ...





a horzontial , free standing draw board works well for what you are looking for - added bonus of being at full draw 

DCA makes this http://www.deadcenterarchery.com/products/probalancer.php


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## Fury90flier

my question is why do you want one. The bow is NOT supposed to balance at rest.

get some steel washers, put them on the front rod....spend time shooting and tracking vertical stringing....when that's done-- add side weight and spend time shooting until horizontal stringing is resolved.


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## EPLC

Fury90flier said:


> my question is why do you want one. The bow is NOT supposed to balance at rest.
> 
> get some steel washers, put them on the front rod....spend time shooting and tracking vertical stringing....when that's done-- add side weight and spend time shooting until horizontal stringing is resolved.


I'm not familiar with the term "stringing"?


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## montigre

EPLC said:


> I'm not familiar with the term "stringing"?


Arrows line up like a string...


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## dua lam pa

montigre said:


> Arrows line up like a string...


my shoe string looks like a bow ...


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## bowshtr74

Dead Center Archery makes a Pro Balancer. I just got one myself. It is very interesting to use and see how slight adjustments to weight or stabilizer angles affect the bow's balance.


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## SonnyThomas

Often thought of having one, but always get sidetracked and then there is Bernie and his instructions, but he is....opinionated? Many say on a ego trip. Still, he's business is doing well for a reason. And the man will talk to you, did me anyway. 

Bernie says;
"Simply draw the bow several times while looking at the sight bubble. Let down and adjust the stack weights until the bubble is right in the center every time you pull back. To adjust front-to-back, hold the bow out with a relaxed hand and watch it drop forward or back. Increase or decrease the weights until it hangs level in your hand."

My clunk bow hand, I have a left 10" back bar with 6 ounces on the end and a 30" stab with a couple ounce out on the end. Bow stays fairly stable at the shot with just a hint tip forward. 

I do like Bernie's picture  Wonder what high grade steel that thin rod is that can support that much weight?


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## Padgett

If you are bernie trying to sell some stabs then go right ahead and make a balancer but if you are wanting to shoot good then don't waste your time, it is way more important to lay out 40 ounces of weight and then start experimenting with rear and front until you find the combination that gives you the float that produces really good shooting. A perfectly balanced bow probably isn't what you are looking for.


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## N7709K

Balance your bow for hold at full draw- static doesn't get you anywhere. Tune dl and bars until your dot sits, bout all there is too it


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## montigre

dua lam pa said:


> my shoe string looks like a bow ...


You're a sick puppy...lol!!


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## ron w

"bow balancers" or "gimbals" are a ruse, designed to sell something to the guys that need to have stuff they don't understand anything about.


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## rohpenguins

Static balance is of do use. What matters is what happens at full draw and at the moment of release. Sean and Ron pretty much said what needs to be said.


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## Strodav

Don't agree with those who say static balance is useless. To me, it's like initially setting the center shot on a rest. It's a good starting position, you know it's close even though you may need to tweak it. I static balance left to right and front to back, then tweak from there, but at least I've got a good starting point.


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## montigre

My bows do not balance at brace, so I don't spend any time balancing them when not drawn. However, when drawn, I achieve an instantly level bubble (within reason) and a fully balanced bow in my hands that remains so throughout the entire shot cycle. 

I saw one of those units at a nationals a couple of years back. The person displaying the unit asked that I have my bow put on it and it was predictably out of balance while at brace. The person stated they could very quickly have it balanced for me and I asked them to take my bow off and draw it---they were amazed at how balanced the bow was at full draw and did not try to continue to sell me on that product.

Like tuning, there are many different ways to skin a cat, I personally prefer not to add additional steps to my methods that are not necessary. :wink:


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## Fury90flier

buy a 20+ of these
http://www.lowes.com/pd_368753-3767...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

put some on the front rod- take sides off. 

test for a couple weeks- adjust as necessary.

Why spend good money on pretty weights that you don't know if you need or not


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## bigHUN

*Lets take it from other perspective*

Learning curve!

I had a hooter shooter initially use it for arrow group tuning.............and along the line I learned a lot. 
Not just about spine or what and why is happening with arrow flight and what or how can I alter it....... but how to fine tune my form how to hold the bow neutral (the most neutral my human can do) and just grab the bow out from the machine and kept shooting without anything re-adjusting on it.

I could not justify the expense for this bow balancer but I made it myself as you can see from pictures ............. and I learned a lot. 
I shoot outdoors long distances in all weather conditions and I prefer a bow balanced perfectly in my grip (maybe a single washer difference here or there and its done). Also, I have to point out do not even try to compare 20y shooting rings indoors with 50 or 70 or 90 outdoors ten rings, there is way more difference between then just a 5 minutes form tuning...... 

We may have also many other "tools" what are not just a tool but a learning curve, lets take the draw board, or arrow FOC balancer, or ..... many to list will take off topic....

Many people resisting to try at lest, well........ you are either a natural talent negating other ideas ....or (I have to say) you will never know....

I am not talking about a piece of machine what shall do a job for you, I am saying .... try to think out of box.... you may like what you going to experience....may not....


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## bigHUN

Fury90flier said:


> .... The bow is NOT supposed to balance at rest.....


Mind you elaborating?
or you have a single side rod with a weight size of my winter tire?
and ....I don't need your answer for myself


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## Fury90flier

Sure,

if you balance at brace, you're unbalanced at anchor- pulling you off the shot. If balanced at anchor you're unbalanced at brace--this is a good thing as the unbalance at brace forced the bow to roll toward the target. A neutral bow at brace is very easy to roll off one side or another. Anyone can learn how to hold anything but it takes a lot of work when the bow is not doing the work for you.

on one bow(supra) I do shoot with only a front rod- but it has down angle and my riser has mounts up top for weights. Both of these together cause a slow roll at the target.

The Hoyt, backup- just one rod (just swap the supra rod- but no down angle)... it needs work due to different geometry but what I have is fine for now.

recurve- both Y's and long rod. weight on front rod is what ever it takes to keep the vertical stringing to a minimum....about 5oz on a 32" rod.
Though I'm taking the rods off---I've been shooting poorly. So, when my form gets back on track, I'll reward myself by adding the front rod again.


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## SonnyThomas

Can we not agree that we have to start somewhere? 

Got into the balance thing late in archery life, back bars anyway. Had few and far between target shooters around me. Only one piece seemed a starting point and given by a pretty good shooter. "Level out 2 "J" hooks horizontally. Hang bow by the bow string. See which way the bow is leaning and add weight to straighten."
That I had a long stabilizer and it was true back to the bow it was pretty easy to see how much lean I had, about a "mile." It was a starting point. Still, I never used back bars for years and placed and won a bunch. Granted, 3D was and still is my game. And then, I placed and won a bunch with using just a front stab, a 8" NAP Shock Blocker. I switched to a long stab - about shook me to death. Tried one that near had the bow tipping out of my hand. Bought the 30" Cartel I have now. Left all the weights on as the Cartel came. Tipped forward kind of quick, but used it successfully. Finally changed to just the end cap and got along fine. Enter back bars and I've experimented to where I am now. I think it's good, but still think I need more overall weight. Not having readily access to different stabs and back bars I'm not about to drop a couple hundred bucks on something that might not work. 

Note; I wrote of Tim helping me and we changed the weights on the front stab. It was okay, but lacked something. I added 3/4 ounce maybe and I like it. When I look at all I can go right back to Bernie's instructions. His picture confuses his instructions. You don't need two back bars. It's what works for you.


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## Fury90flier

start somewhere (balanced I assume)..absolutely. Just the only problem I see with that method (Statically balanced) is that you're working with more than one axis at once...problematic for me. The other problem I see is that many will just leave it statically balanced then wonder why float is so poor...


For me, I like to simply start off with what I know is way heavy...then shoot, warm up and pay attention to sight picture. SP obviously drops too fast but it gives me an idea of what I'll be doing to the back bars. Once the proof is "that is seriously too much weight", I'll cut it in half...that weight, will go on side bars...but that's not until I get better than "good enough" on front.

I hate jacking with side bars...I've got grip issues that get in the way sometimes- and I'm not about to put more weight to simply cover up bad form. As frustrating as it is figuring this float out...I know it's necessary. Wish I had more experience to say...X inches of float is Xoz of weight- here or there. funny how 1oz can make all the difference.


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## dua lam pa

with out getting into whos , whats and whys and to answer the OP question ...

if you wish to have your bow " balanced " simply hang it from the top cam 
-adjust stabs and weight 
- say ali kazam , and walk counter clockwise around the bow 3 times for each ounce, whilst patting your head and singing the theme from the Jeffersons - " moving on up ...
-thats about as easy as it gets - 

" The Big Dud " shot this way for years , very not complicated at all - sorry I dropped a who -


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## ron w

yes, you definitely need to start somewhere, but that "somewhere", doesn't need to be found with a "balancer', it be found just by hanging some weight on your stabs until it feels decent enough to start shooting. you don't need to spend money on a needless piece of equipment that produces no useful results. 
they are on the shelves for the entire purpose of making the uninformed, reach for their wallets.


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## Lazarus

I don't recall, but Padgett may have already stated it, the best way to balance your bow is to start with your rods, (assuming that you have already got the rods of the lengths that you want) and shoot with no weight for a while just to get the feel of the rods. Depending on your experience it might be 20 arrows, it might be 200. If you are a beginner, and listen close, DON'T assume you will just throw weight on at a ratio someone has told you and your bow will magically "stop" when it his the X. Won't happen. One of the many inaccurate archery/stabilizer cliche's is, "when you find the sweet spot you will know it." That's total hogwash. 

From there, ad weight at a 1/front to 2/rear ratio to progress toward where you want to be. This in time will get you close. Who knows where you will land on your ratio, but as you go through this process you will learn a lot and find out what your body can handle and what gives you the best hold. 

As someone stated above, this is pretty simple stuff, the one thing that may not have been mentioned is this, don't expect to throw three pounds of additional weight on your bow and at once be a superstar. Your body is more than likely not conditioned to hold 7-10 pounds out front, (some of it) extending six feet out in some peoples cases. You hear a lot about "low hold" with archers, that often gets mis-diagnosed as some other ailment when it is nothing more than gravity! You have to learn to hold all that weight up, benefiting you, not hindering you, and you don't do it over night. 

I'm not saying this is the only way, or the right way. But it works for me. Hopefully it will work for someone else.


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## Padgett

I actually think that starting out balanced it a bad idea, three weeks ago my buddy took a friday off from work and he came to my house at 6am and we had a whole day of shooting. One of the things we wanted to do is work on his stabs and weight combinations, he wanted to just tweek the current setup and I walked over to his bow and took off all of his weights completely. 

I then told him that we were now ready to get started and I spilled out almost 50 ounces of weight onto my 3d stool, I told him that we were going to start out at 0 ounces and shoot a couple arrows and then begin adding front and rear weight and take notes until we filled up the stabs way heavier than you have ever tried. We started shooting and in the beginning he hated not having weight on the stabs and his float was jumpy and bigger than normal and then after adding weight for a while he noticed the pin settling down and looking more normal. He had told me that he had a weird little drop in his float almost every shot around 2 seconds into aiming so I made sure during the process that the rear bar had a ample amount. It took us around a hour and in the end he got to experience shooting a bow that had over 30 ounces on the rear and almost 20 up front and also shooting without any weight on the stabs, we went back to the two weight combos that during the shooting session really stood out as being good ones and we tried both of them and one of them made the final selection.

To me this is the way to set up a bow with a good set of stabs that are working for you instead of against you and yes his little drop of the pin has vanished.


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## Padgett

By the way, that day of shooting with my buddy really was awesome:

1. Worked on firing engines for a hour

2. Worked on his stab weights for a hour

3. Worked on hinge speed for 20 minutes

4. two hours, Shot asa low back scoring rings at a variety of distances working on aiming at the 12 ring and not dropping out.

5. Found a problem with his sight and worked on his second axis and actually moved the sight block up on the dove tail so we had to sight the bow back in.

6. BBQ that night and had steaks.

Then we shot 3d shoots on saturday and sunday and had a blast and he posted one of his best scores so it was all worth it.


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## Mahly

In time you will know about where your starting point should be. If your not their yet, do as mentioned, and start with zero and add until you see positive change...then keep adding until you see a drop in the quality of your hold.
I know I have always shot better with a bow that is a good bit front heavy at brace. I have shot well for many years with JUST a front bar (Sergio seems to be able to rock it with no back bar, and a very significant front bar). Now i'm using a back bar, so I have added a good bit more weight to the front. I also will play with the angle of the rear bar to fine tune the balance. At the moment, I use my back bar to get me to level as quickly as possible...that doesn't mean perfectly balanced at brace.

Imagine what Sergio's or Reo's bows would look like on a balancer. Yet their set-ups work for them. THAT is the most important thing...find what works best for YOU.

Dua lam pa, may have the simplest, best answer with his first reply here. YOUR hand is the best balancer.


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## N7709K

Staticlly they should "balance" out with a -30 to -45deg and maybe some side cant depending on where and how the back is run. Heavy weighted mains and hair short dl's give some nice bonuses  


If you aren't making the changes to dl that your dot is telling you while tuning bars you are pretty much wasting time.


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## Padgett

Mahly, I just watched reo and Sergio Pagni shoot a fita event and I think he was running a rear bar. I am going to see if I can find it.


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## Mahly

That's new then, he, for the longest time was front bar only (one of those multi rod style ones)

edit: And a little Doinker looking thing on the back of the riser, but I don't call it a back bar.


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## Padgett

He doesn't have a rear bar, I was seeing things.


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## N7709K

Pagni shoots just a main and reo runs off the stab bushing- just a main works if you have the shot for it... Jesse set the field records with only a main


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## pwyrick

Great thread. Thanks all. Now I'll add my 2 cents. It seems to me that the target archery world wants to talk about balance, even though we call those things stabilizers. Stability is what I want. Balance is not even a consideration for me. Here's a simple example that helped me understand the difference between balance and stability. This is certainly not going to be very scientific. Take a perfect pyramid. It can be turned upside down and balanced on its point. It is certainly not stable, even though it is perfectly balanced. In fact, perfect balance is inherently unstable. Take the same pyramid and put it flat side down and you have an object that is perfectly stable. To my not so complicated mind, stability has to due with resistance. And since each of us has a slightly different body, each will apply pressure to the riser in a unique way. So my stabilizers must uniquely add resistance to my point of contact on the riser so that I end up with a stable and steady sight picture. That helps me understand why there are so many different stabilizer/weight combinations on bows held by some amazing shooters.


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## montigre

N7709K said:


> Jesse set the field records with only a main


I believe Jesse ran only the main for just a short time. He usually has a fairly loaded side bar working for him both indoors and outdoors (at least he did at 2 recent national field shoots I saw him shooting). 

View attachment 2019478


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## hrtlnd164

Found this an interesting read, http://www.bow-international.com/reviews/equipment/stabilisers-made-easy/


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## N7709K

He ran twin backs off his ve+ for some of the pro series of archery, with his UE he ran just a main when he set the clean records back 4 or 5 years ago


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## SonnyThomas

hrtlnd164 said:


> Found this an interesting read, http://www.bow-international.com/reviews/equipment/stabilisers-made-easy/


Good read. And he did give to using stiff stabs, what I was wanting in the "tuning bars" post. However, I didn't think it was fair he used a Mathews for example


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## redman

great info


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## 60435

you should forget all about this, i shoot what id consider a balanced bow but its far from that, stabilizers are purely a personnel thing. start wit a vbar setup add and take off weights slowly start with the minimum amount necessary i like a heavy bow with heavy back pressure balancing your hold weight over your mass weight is bow balancing


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## ron w

all those sticks hanging off a bow aren't there to "balance" the bow. they're there to make the bow react a certain way to the shot. what works for me isn't going to work for you, so how can having any bow, or all bows, for that matter,... "balanced to some degree".... be any more of a "starting point" than having nothing on the bow at all.


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## Joe Schnur

Lots of good advice here and everyone has a different opinion. Here is my .02

When you reach full draw the purpose of the back bar is to have the bubble come to rest in the center with out you needing to wait or fight it with muscles. The front weight is to control float. Given that go experiment with lots of fender washers a note book and lots of shots. Longer distance for me makes the float more obvious or laser taped to riser or 8x lense any of these will let you know how your float is doing but remember w/ o a good anchor and proper relaxed 45 degree grip results will not be valid


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## SonnyThomas

ron w said:


> all those sticks hanging off a bow aren't there to "balance" the bow. they're there to make the bow react a certain way to the shot. what works for me isn't going to work for you, so how can having any bow, or all bows, for that matter,... "balanced to some degree".... be any more of a "starting point" than having *nothing on the bow at all*.


Valid point. Things weren't going like I wanted. I started over again Thursday, followed up Friday and had enough time shoot a couple dozen shots today, Saturday.

So far; Removed 13 ounces and put back on 3 ounces. So 10 ounces lighter than when started. Bow feels light, but holds well. Have some bow wobble when coming to full draw, hitting the wall that hard. Sight pin has been moved right several times and now much closer to bow string/arrow alignment. So the full 13 ounces was effecting something.

Had some hairy shots, nothing on bow, but sight frame, bow so light it took some getting use to. Tired of the float thing I switched to stack the pin to the X ring. Gooder, having something to aim for. Had time for 20 shots today. All went in where the X ring use to be, but some and highs and lows still present as with Friday. Busy again Sunday and Monday.


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## swbuckmaster

I think ron is incorrect

Its not how the bow reacts after the shot. I could care less how it reacts after the shot because the arrow has already left the bow by the time you feel how it reacts.

You tune your bars for the slowest float you can physically get with your skill or physical ability. By adding weight in certain areas you can narrow down your float. So having a balanced bow and correct draw length is a good starting point and thats it. No two people shoot the same and this is why you see so many people with different setups.


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## SonnyThomas

Well, take all the bars off your bow and see what happens. Mine flip flopped, twisted and general scary after use to all the weight on the bow. If anything that's agreed on by the most coaches and the majority of shooters is the want of a bit of tip forward at the shot. Meaning the bow gets out of the way.


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## swbuckmaster

I take all the bars off my bows to find my draw length sweat spot but dont need to shoot an arrow. I just aim and pay attention to my float and what its telling me. Change my draw until I get the smallest float possible without my bars. Again i could care less what my bow does if I shot it with my bars off.


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## SonnyThomas

swbuckmaster said:


> I take all the bars off my bows to find my draw length sweat spot but dont need to shoot an arrow. I just aim and pay attention to my float and what its telling me. Change my draw until I get the smallest float possible without my bars. ]Again  I could care less what my bow does if I shot it with my bars off.


No, that isn't what you said. You said this; "I could care less how it reacts after the shot because the arrow has already left the bow by the time you feel how it reacts."

And ron_w noted; "what works for me isn't going to work for you." And then each bow is different. My MarXman, it felt good, shot good with one back bar and 6 ounce on the end. My MX2 has two back bars evenly spaced, evenly weighted and the bubble is hinting that I need another ounce on the right where you would think left. 

And for me it was the old saying; "Careful about what you wish for, you might get it." I thought sure I wanted more weight and it wasn't working for me. The other thing is, is the float issue. It's not all about stabs and balance. It's also a mind game. Put a circle out and staying/floating in the center is big female dog for me. Put a 3D out there and my pin just sits there. I went back to my old ways, stacking the pin to the wanted point of impact. Maybe my last 20 Xs yesterday weren't pretty, but they Xs. Width was a dime, height took up all the X. So a bit more getting use to and a little weight adjustment should narrow the height some.


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## swbuckmaster

Sonny you still didnt get what I said in both statments. "I could care less what my bow does after the shot."

You dont set the bow up to fall forward after the shot. You set the bow up for float and hold. If it falls forward, backward or sidways it doesnt matter.

If you cant get a good float it doesnt matter what the bow does after the shot. If your bow doesnt hold relitvly well with out your bars on it you need to fix your form issues and draw length. You dont need to fire a shot to work on your sight picture.

The difference between the good shooters and bad shooters is hold/float. The good shooters spend less time outside the ten then the bad shooters. 

If the bow is reacting a certain way after the shot its because of nock travel issues, bow torque or the way you are torquing or pulling through the shot. More mass weight can help eliminate or mask those problems but id rather work whats causing them.


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## swbuckmaster

If anything I miss read what ron said and now believe he is saying the same thing as I am.


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## Bees

swbuckmaster said:


> I take all the bars off my bows to find my draw length sweat spot but dont need to shoot an arrow. I just aim and pay attention to my float and what its telling me. Change my draw until I get the smallest float possible without my bars. Again i could care less what my bow does if I shot it with my bars off.


I shoot my bows with no stabilizers for score, 299 with 48 X's last time I shot the 20 yard drill on the 5 spot. 
I care what my bow does on the shot. During the time the arrow is being releases, during the power stroke.
it's about 250- 500 millisecond's for the dynamic release of the arrow, 
It's the only thing I use the bars and weights for, is to get the behavior I want during this small period of time.


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## swbuckmaster

So your telling me you know what your bow is doing in a 250-500 millisecond right after the shot? Right


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## SonnyThomas

Bees said:


> I shoot my bows with no stabilizers for score, 299 with 48 X's last time I shot the 20 yard drill on the 5 spot.
> I care what my bow does on the shot. During the time the arrow is being releases, during the power stroke.
> *it's about 250- 500 millisecond's for the dynamic release of the arrow*,
> It's the only thing I use the bars and weights for, is to get the behavior I want during this small period of time.





swbuckmaster said:


> So your telling me you know what your bow is doing in a 250-500 millisecond right after the shot? Right


Did he say after the shot?


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## swbuckmaster

Do you know what dynamic release of the arrow means? Its not what is happining durring the aiming process


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## swbuckmaster

Im saying right you can tell what your bow is doing in a 250-500 millisecond of your power stroke. News flash in that short of a window it isnt going to matter what your bow is doing. Chances are it will do it just as consistant if your bow bucks forward or backwards.


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## SonnyThomas

Regardless, I want my bow to behave. Maybe it's a confidence enhancer.


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## swbuckmaster

If you want a bow to behave just pack on twenty pounds of weight. It wont even matter where you put that weight because it will be so heavy it wont move on the shot. Good luck holding it on the dot though.


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## SonnyThomas

You're running amuck. I replied that I took off 10 ounces and it's much nicer....


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## Bees

swbuckmaster said:


> So your telling me you know what your bow is doing in a 250-500 millisecond right after the shot? Right


Yep, my slow motion camera shows me exactly what my bow is during that period of time.
and it is not 250-500 milliseconds after the shot, it is during the shot that I am concerned with.

I put on what I want to get what I want when I want it.
and that's the only reason I have a stabilizer on it at all..

My goal is to have the lightest amount of weights on the bow and still achieve my desired result.
I want lighter because I can hold lighter weights longer and steadier than heavier weights.


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## SonnyThomas

What I found, BeeS. Seems I was right on the edge of holding good and getting off my shot. Of my longer practice sessions it began to show much more, just too much weight. Comparison of my MarXman also gave that I had to much weight on the MX2. Actually, I was kind of stunned at the weight difference of my two bows.


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## Fifa

hrtlnd164 said:


> Found this an interesting read, http://www.bow-international.com/reviews/equipment/stabilisers-made-easy/


It is very interesting article, but I'm not fully understand how to tune the resistance system:
Balanced system is system when the bow is perfectly balanced in its "neutral"position. So resistance - based on reading is little bit unbalanced and you must little bit fight with them during the draw cycle. Compared to balanced system resistance s. falling front and left. But on which extent ? I know every archer should have own setup, but what s the setup starting point for resistance system ?


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## nuts&bolts

Fifa said:


> It is very interesting article, but I'm not fully understand how to tune the resistance system:
> Balanced system is system when the bow is perfectly balanced in its "neutral"position. So resistance - based on reading is little bit unbalanced and you must little bit fight with them during the draw cycle. Compared to balanced system resistance s. falling front and left. But on which extent ? I know every archer should have own setup, but what s the setup starting point for resistance system ?


Just shoot...with the resistance system.

Two things for the RESISTANCE system.

1) work the FOC of the stabilizer system, the FRONT heaviness to get this result.
MORE front heavy. LESS front heavy. This is a RESULTS based tuning system.

BEFORE stress test result.



AFTER stress test result.



WHAT-ever amount of FRONT heaviness required to get THIS result...when YOU shoot YOUR bow, in YOUR hands.


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## nuts&bolts

Fifa said:


> It is very interesting article, but I'm not fully understand how to tune the resistance system:
> Balanced system is system when the bow is perfectly balanced in its "neutral"position. So resistance - based on reading is little bit unbalanced and you must little bit fight with them during the draw cycle. Compared to balanced system resistance s. falling front and left. But on which extent ? I know every archer should have own setup, but what s the setup starting point for resistance system ?


2) now, work your ARROW REST, to get THIS result,
ZERO right hand misses, for a RIGHT handed shooter.

STRESS test result.



THIS stage, you work the ARROW REST.
That's correct,
move the ARROW REST, sideways, so you have ZERO misses to the RIGHT of the x-ring, if you are a RIGHT handed shooter.


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## nuts&bolts

Fifa said:


> It is very interesting article, but I'm not fully understand how to tune the resistance system:
> Balanced system is system when the bow is perfectly balanced in its "neutral"position. So resistance - based on reading is little bit unbalanced and you must little bit fight with them during the draw cycle. Compared to balanced system resistance s. falling front and left. But on which extent ? I know every archer should have own setup, but what s the setup starting point for resistance system ?


3) NOW, we make the BOW one side HEAVY...for a RIGHT Handed shooter, we MOVE the side rod, like a door, and swing the side rod
AWAY From the bowstring, ON PURPOSE....this is the RESISTANCE part.

The bow is MORE and MORE and MORE LEFT side heavy,
as you swing the side rod, LIKE a door on a hinge, AWAY From the bowstring,
and you must FIGHT the bow balance, cuz it is MORE and MORE and MORE LEFT HEAVY,
you must WORK the bow arm to keep your BUBBLE CENTERED.

AS you SWING the side rod MORE and MORE and MORE away from the bowstring,
swing the side rod like a DOOR..

the RESISTANCE system,
the bow SIDE ROD
causes an INTENTIONAL TORQUE,
which makes your LEFT MISSES dis-appear to ZERO.

My Online STUDENT's results NOW, using the RESISTANCE method.

I call it my STABILIZER SETUP in THREE MOVES.
AFTER STEP 3.




The ORIGINAL STRESS test result, for my ONLINE STUDENT.


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## nuts&bolts

MY bow,
after I have done the STABILIZER SETUP in THREE moves.

No, I did not hang my bow from the ceiling to arrive at this amount of FRONT heaviness weight balance,
No, I did not hang my bow from the ceiling to arrive at this amount of LEFT HEAVINESS weight balance.

I hang my bow from the ceiling to take pretty pictures.







You can see how MUCH I swing the side rod mount, LIKE A DOOR on a hinge,
to arrive at the RESISTANCE SYSTEM left heaviness amount.



So,
using my STABILIZER SETUP in THREE MOVES

I get these results.



So,
my bow is NOT in balance...not by a LONG shot.

TWO styles.

See which system works BEST for you.


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## SonnyThomas

Fifa said:


> It is very interesting article, but I'm not fully understand how to tune the resistance system:
> Balanced system is system when the bow is perfectly balanced in its "neutral"position. So resistance - based on reading is little bit unbalanced and you must little bit fight with them during the draw cycle. Compared to balanced system resistance s. falling front and left. But on which extent ? I know every archer should have own setup, but what s the setup starting point for resistance system ?


Fifa, I went through this and still finding what I like and want. I thought I knew what I wanted and found I was wrong. Padgett and others noted how to go about it, nothing on your front stab and back bars. And I do now feel you shoot and add weights accordingly. Right now I have -1- ounce on the front and -1- on each back bar. I will not add weights until I find or see something that says to. My front stabilizer is 30" long, but I also have a 1" 10 degree down quick disconnect, so 31". I have two back bars 12 inches long and both have quick disconnects, so 13 inches long.

My other bow shot great. Different bow, different set up. 30" front stabilizer with 2 ounces on the end, but also a quick disconnect, so 31" for length. One back bar on the left 10" inches long with quick disconnect for 11" and 6 ounces on the end.

Weight is good, but weight you can handle is best. When you see 10, 15 and 20 ounces added to stabs you're looking at one heavy bow.


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## nuts&bolts

Fifa said:


> It is very interesting article, but I'm not fully understand how to tune the resistance system:
> Balanced system is system when the bow is perfectly balanced in its "neutral"position. So resistance - based on reading is little bit unbalanced and you must little bit fight with them during the draw cycle. Compared to balanced system resistance s. falling front and left. But on which extent ? I know every archer should have own setup, but what s the setup starting point for resistance system ?


No magic bullet.

Just LOTS of hard work.

STARTING point.

No stabilizers, of course.









ADDED the front stabilizer. ADDED some weight to the FRONT STICK.

HOW much weight?
WHAT is the FORMULA?
How can I speed up the process?

You cannot.

PICK something.
GO shoot.

If you start with THIS result?

Like my ONLINE student,
when he came to me for HELP...



FRONT stick only
maybe you get THIS stress test result.



I just came back from a seminar in Vero Beach, Florida.

My seminar students, ONE of them
had TWELVE OUNCES on his LONG front stabilizer
and a side rod, with some amount of weight, on the SIDE STICK.

Don't remember bow much.

He was holding LOW. He thought he had TARGET PANIC.

THINK about this.

HE WAS HOLDING LOW.
HE HAD TWELVE OUNCES on the FRONT STICK.

HMMMMMMMM.

So,
I said,
let's try something.

LET's EXPERIMENT with FRONT HEAVINESS.

How about we try LESS WEIGHT on the FRONT STICK.

So,
he tried LESS and LESS and LESS and LESS and LESS front stick weight.

GUESS what happened??????

He no LONGER HOLDS LOW.

Who woulda THUNK?

So,
PLAY with front heaviness...MAYBE YOU need MORE weight on the FRONT Stick.
PLAY with front heaviness...MAYBE YOU need LESS, MUCH LESS Weight on the FRONT STICK.

PLAY with front heaviness...MAYBE YOU NEED MORE weight on the SIDE STICK (makes the bow LESS front heavy).
PLAY with FRONT heaviness...MAYBE YOU NEED LESS weight on the SIDE STICK (makes the bow MORE front heavy).

KEEP going until you get THIS result.



For me,
the magic amount of FRONT HEAVINESS is THIS MUCH FRONT heaviness, after LOTS and LOTS of shooting.



A combination of FRONT STICK weight,
and SIDE STICK WEIGHT
and SIDE ROD ANGLE, where I rotate the side stick, like the MINUTE HAND on a CLOCK...rotate the side stick TOWARDS the FLOOR.


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## nuts&bolts

Then,
you do STEP 2, and work the arrow rest, so you have ZERO misses to the RIGHT of the x-ring, at 20 yards.


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## nuts&bolts

THEN, you do STEP 3,
and swing the side rod, like a door on a HINGE.

You can see, for ME,
I had to swing my side rod QUITE a BIT.





The end result
is THIS at 20 yards.



My bow is DEFINITELY out of balance.


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## Fifa

Thanks for your valuable answers. My current issue is bad vertical grouping. My grouping from hundreds of shots looks like ellipse with shorter horizontal axis and longer vertical axis.


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## bigHUN

Fifa said:


> ...My grouping from hundreds of shots looks like ellipse with shorter horizontal axis and longer vertical axis....


what distance? 20Y;s? you have lot of work to do.... 
If 50M or over ... where the vertical POI? below or above? is the pattern leaning like this / or like this \ ????
lets make this lesson complicated....
I have the carbofast stabilizer and their original weights (whatever is a weight of it), I weighted one of the weights on my grain scale = xxx oz ..... that weight equals 14 washers I am usually having in my pockets whenever I go shooting.....if I take down a single weight from my front rod (regardless how long is it) because for some reason today is too front heavy.... I shall put up less then 14 washers up front.....maybe 6? or maybe 11? who knows, but take out the washers from pocket and start stacking up  most of my time in 3-4 rounds I will get it right -----------for today only .....

back to Q....if your pattern shows / with mostly higher then center and R from center POI ................put 7 washers to your back right side rod and repeat the shots....read what you've got now, still shows / but a bit flatter? open up the right side rod for a bit and rerun....


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## Fifa

POI is in the center. Pattern is perfectly vertical- like this |. I believe it is not caused by side weight. It should be (of course my - shooter) error, I just looking for what I should focus to improve it.


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