# Ammunition Supply



## goingpro24

o wow


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## NocBuster

intresting


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## BigPoppa96

I have read about this and I hate the idea. Join the NRA now if you arean't all ready a member.


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## jafo

I wrote the Sponsor of the Missouri bill about my dissatisfaction. Won't do much good but hey what the heck. They want to laser etch a code on every single bullet and then put a 1/2 of one cent sales tax on every round to support the program not to mention making it a class A Mistamenor if your get caught selling ammo without a code. Can anyone say Clintonomics? It's sponsored by a St.Louis Democrat. Go figure.


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## hawgdawg

It's another way to get control of our guns. The govt. knows they can hardly do anything about the guns because of the constitution so they are going the ammo route. Nothing is said in const. about ammo.


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## mikel m14

They want us to dispose of our uncoded ammo,looks like a bunch of BS.


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## Caligater

This is a SERIOUS deal and we need to do everything we can within our abilities to fight this bill. This is just the beginning of trying to faze out sportsman of all kinds.

They can't take our guns, but they can price us out of ammo, a tactic that has been around for a very long time.


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## double o

Its funny that Obama wants to pass laws like this but he wants to fix the economy. :noidea: Raise taxes on ammo and people will stop buying as much ammo. That means less ammo will be produced and people will loose their jobs. YEAH go Obama! :thumbs_do


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## Caligater

They tried a couple years ago to pass a law similar to this in the NE, and Remington and Winchester both announced they will simply NOT sell ammo in those states.

Whenever we make a decision of this magnitude at work, we perform a cost/benefit analysis. The question that I would like to see answered (which I am sure nobody will do) is this;

For every round fired in this country annually, how many are fired in a crime that goes unsolved? I bet if you could see that percentage, it would start with a decimal point and have A LOT of zeros before you got to any other numbers.


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## Okie X

Man I can't wait until Obama is the president.

Yes We Can.


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## MNmike

*well they are all positioned*

Obama has selected many with the same mindset. 

And now they have total control.

He still is selecting, and will include SC judge(s) in the future.

If more people would of looked at Obama's voting record and listened to interviews and statements of the past in Ill. instead of the campain trail lip service you could see things actually building to what we now will face today.

If more would of done this niether Obama or McCain would of been elected IMO.

People think he is too busy with the war and the economy for trivial things like this are dead wrong. He just needs to sign what is brought to him.


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## _Caveman_

could you still make your own ammo with this law. bullets you make won't have a code on them so?


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## OH_Hunter24

BigPoppa96 said:


> I have read about this and I hate the idea. Join the NRA now if you arean't all ready a member.


Absolutely. I joined on election night and have been doing my best to recruit all of my friends and family members. It is amazing that people can see this as a good idea. The criminals will still have all the uncoded ammunition they want.


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## IChim2

Not a big deal.


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## MNmike

*why not?*



IChim2 said:


> Not a big deal.


Why would it not make a big deal?

Just the cost alone is a big deal.

How about the government keeping tabs on you that close.

How about you getting convicted due to someone using etched ammo with your code on it.

How about the double standard of citizens vs police and military.


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## garb72

great!:no:


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## IChim2

MNmike said:


> Why would it not make a big deal?
> 
> Just the cost alone is a big deal.
> 
> How about the government keeping tabs on you that close.
> 
> How about you getting convicted due to someone using etched ammo with your code on it.
> 
> How about the double standard of citizens vs police and military.


Let me see.....you have to register your fire arms=gov/state keeping track of you.....half a cent isn't going to bankrupt anyone.If someone steals or you happen to loose some rounds,turn it in and get a copy of the police report to protect you.The world has changed and it's not the one we once knew or grew up in.


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## mobowhntr

IChim2 said:


> Let me see.....you have to register your fire arms=gov/state keeping track of you.....half a cent isn't going to bankrupt anyone.If someone steals or you happen to loose some rounds,turn it in and get a copy of the police report to protect you.The world has changed and it's not the one we once knew or grew up in.


 and your from MO.


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## twisted1600

As stated above:
*Not a big deal*

The cost?A couple bucks at most per box.
They will probable use laser inscription,same as they use to trace special diamonds.
The purpose is to track down the person who used (or allowed to be used) the gun that the bullets where fired from.
The purpose is to put violent criminals behind bars!
The purpose is not to track firearms or the people who use them in a legal manner.
Use some common sense guys.


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## IChim2

Lets say your wife and kids went shopping and heaven forbid they got caught in the middle of a drive by shooting.....the chances of catching the shooters just went up if the the bullets are marked.Don't blame Obama....blame all the low life ***'s that want nothing more than to rob us,drive by and shoot us,hold our wife or daughter at gun point while their rapping them and so on.....not Obama.


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## Okie X

Sorry guys but you are wrong wrong wrong.

It is a very big deal.

_*The world has changed and it's not the one we once knew or grew up in.*_ 

Yep. Sure ain't and this kinda crap is another reason it's not.


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## OH_Hunter24

IChim2 said:


> Lets say your wife and kids went shopping and heaven forbid they got caught in the middle of a drive by shooting.....the chances of catching the shooters just went up if the the bullets are marked.Don't blame Obama....blame all the low life ***'s that want nothing more than to rob us,drive by and shoot us,hold our wife or daughter at gun point while their rapping them and so on.....not Obama.


Not really. The criminals will have uncoded ammunition because gun/ammunition control laws only effect law abiding citizens.


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## twisted1600

Thieft or lose of the rounds could be a problem.
Better lock 'em up.
No more leaving a box of shells on the dash when running into the corner liquor store!:cocktail:


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## IChim2

OH_Hunter24 said:


> Not really. The criminals will have uncoded ammunition because gun/ammunition control laws only effect law abiding citizens.


I didn't say it was 100% sure thing,just said it might up the chances of catching the shooter.Crooks will always find a way arround laws but they also mess up a lot.


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## twisted1600

Okie X said:


> Sorry guys but you are wrong wrong wrong.
> 
> It is a very big deal.
> 
> _*The world has changed and it's not the one we once knew or grew up in.*_
> 
> Yep. Sure ain't and this kinda crap is another reason it's not.


How?


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## IChim2

twisted1600 said:


> As started above:
> *Not a big deal*
> 
> The cost?A couple bucks at most per box.
> They will probable use laser inscription,same as they use to trace special diamonds.
> The purpose is to track down the person who used (or allowed to be used) the gun that the bullets where fired from.
> The purpose is to put violent criminals behind bars!
> The purpose is not to track firearms or the people who use them in a legal manner.
> Use some common sense guys.


Agree......everyone use their amo for what it's designed for and no worries.


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## IChim2

mobowhntr said:


> and your from MO.


Yes i'm from Mo...lived here and hunted here all my life.All you may not know this but every phone call we make is recorded and a record kept of what time we made it.Every time someone uses their cell phone the time and aprox-location is recorded,every time we get on the internet were be watched and every site we visit is being tracked.......it's just not that big a deal.


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## mobowhntr

IChim2 said:


> Yes i'm from Mo...lived here and hunted here all my life.All you may not know this but every phone call we make is recorded and a record kept of what time we made it.Every time someone uses their cell phone the time and aprox-location is recorded,every time we get on the internet were be watched and every site we visit is being tracked.......it's just not that big a deal.


Well it's a big deal to me. I will not sacrifice my freedoms for the disguise of security. The reason the Government gets away with what they do is because of the very attitude you have, Oh it's no big deal.


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## twisted1600

Okie X said:


> Sorry guys but you are wrong wrong wrong.
> 
> It is a very big deal.
> 
> _*The world has changed and it's not the one we once knew or grew up in.*_
> 
> Yep. Sure ain't and this kinda crap is another reason it's not.





twisted1600 said:


> How?


Not willing to pay a little extra?
Don't you keep your shells under lock and key?
Someone spell it out...how is it a big deal? And a big enough deal to effect *all* of us legal firearm users.
The only issue I see is the lose or thieft of shells.
That fear wont stop me from buying firearms,shooting or buying over the counter catridges.
It will make me more aware of where I store them.I will buy fewer boxs at a time and I wont let a box leave my sight...ever.
Kinda how it should be anyway.
My mentallity will change..."Don't touch my shells or I'll shot you!"


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## Okie X

I don't want more govt in my life. Do you?

Sure, say it's just a small thing. Another small intrusion into my life. 
Look man, I don't need the govt to protect my from everything or expect them too. And people who believe the govt. can are sheep. This is the USA. I don't want to be tracked, traced, watched, overtaxed, or otherwise bothered by my govt. I have guns that are not registered and that my govt doesn't _know_ about. And if you ask me why do I own guns, even my registered ones, I will tell you it is to shoot the bad guys with. Well everyday the govt. gets away with crap like this they become closer to being the bad guys and not the govt. that the founding fathers fought and died for and the one I claim as mine. 

You guys who just act like the govt. only wants to help when stuff like this is suggested are naive. 

The cost - It will be a whole lot more than a couple of bucks. Fees and taxes like this only go up. 

The purpose - To track US citizens. Free people aren't we? 

You say it's not to track firearms or the people who use them legally? Well let me tell you about an interview I seen with the largest gun dealer in Oklahoma. When asked how many bad guys did the background checks for gun sales produce last year he said none. The interviewer looked stunned at this answer. He said " Look, bad guys don't buy guns at gun stores."

So who they gona track. Who _do they wanta_ track is my question.


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## mobowhntr

I dont care how much regulation and other BS you put in place you are never going to stop crime period. They should try enforcing laws they already have instead of adding new ones.


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## mobowhntr

Okie X said:


> I don't want more govt in my life. Do you?
> 
> Sure, say it's just a small thing. Another small intrusion into my life.
> Look man, I don't need the govt to protect my from everything or expect them too. And people who believe the govt. can are sheep. This is the USA. I don't want to be tracked, traced, watched, overtaxed, or otherwise bothered by my govt. I have guns that are not registered and that my govt doesn't _know_ about. And if you ask me why do I own guns, even my registered ones, I will tell you it is to shoot the bad guys with. Well everyday the govt. gets away with crap like this they become closer to being the bad guys and not the govt. that the founding fathers fought and died for and the one I claim as mine.
> 
> You guys who just act like the govt. only wants to help when stuff like this is suggested are naive.
> 
> The cost - It will be a whole lot more than a couple of bucks. Fees and taxes like this only go up.
> 
> The purpose - To track US citizens. Free people aren't we?
> 
> You say it's not to track firearms or the people who use them legally? Well let me tell you about an interview I seen with the largest gun dealer in Oklahoma. When asked how many bad guys did the background checks for gun sales produce last year he said none. The interviewer looked stunned at this answer. He said " Look, bad guy don't buy guns at gun stores."
> 
> So who they gona track. Who _do they wanta_ track is my question.


Absolutely correct.


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## IChim2

mobowhntr said:


> Well it's a big deal to me. I will not sacrifice my freedoms for the disguise of security. The reason the Government gets away with what they do is because of the very attitude you have, Oh it's no big deal.


If it were a more important issue i would feel different,but it's not...thats why i have an open attitude about it.Seems it doesn't take much for some to get paranoid.


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## mobowhntr

IChim2 said:


> If it were a more important issue i would feel different,but it's not...thats why i have an open attitude about it.Seems it doesn't take much for some to get paranoid.


I am not paranoid about anything. I know if they had there way there would be no more guns. Thats not paranoia but fact. We could all be subjects and live in a perfect world.


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## old skool

IChim2 said:


> Not a big deal.


Same attitude Europe had before WW2 as they were getting slowy disarmed, do you think the scum that commit the majority of gun crimes are going to buy coded ammo that can trace them to a crime, get real man, the *******s use guns & ammo they steal from people like me & others that follow the law.


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## Jim C

mikel m14 said:


> They want us to dispose of our uncoded ammo,looks like a bunch of BS.


Yeah if they pass crap like this and start arresting people for having uncoded ammo I know exactly how patriots ought to dispose of uncoded ammo


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## IChim2

mobowhntr said:


> I am not paranoid about anything. I know if they had there way there would be no more guns. Thats not paranoia but fact. We could all be subjects and live in a perfect world.


I'm not saying i like it....the last time i looked,i have more than 6000 rounds of new amo still in the boxes...think i want to destroy it or give it up?..no,and i won't.No one is more againest the Gov telling us what to do more than me,but if i buy some amo, and it is marked...the only thing i'm going to shoot is legal game or self defence.If someone would happen to break in and steal some i would report it and get a copy that showed i reported as stolen to protect me.I'm a member of the nra but have to admitt that some stuff we hear on the news and read about is designed to keep us affraid.Someone,rather it's state or Gov knows what i'm doing on my computer right now and that pisses me off more than putting a mark on a amo load that more than likely the only thing it will be used for is hunting or target practice.


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## polarbear06

Everyone keeps saying 1/2 a penny is no big deal. That 1/2 a penny is just the tax on each bullet we give to the government to keep track of all the etched numbers. What is this going to cost the manufacturer's that have to develop and impliment the technology to do the etching? And how will that cost be passed on to the consumers? I have a feeling this will have a much larger impact, financially, than most of you are willing to believe. So...YES IT IS A BIG DEAL!


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## polarbear06

Everyone keeps saying 1/2 a penny is no big deal If you read the legislation portion of the link it .05 per bullet. That's 5 cents each. 1.00 per box of 20. 2.50 for your rimfire boxes of 50 and on up. That 5 cents is just the tax on each bullet we give to the government to keep track of all the etched numbers. What is this going to cost the manufacturer's that have to develop and impliment the technology to do the etching? And how will that cost be passed on to the consumers? What about the retailers? What is their cost that will certainly be passed to us as well. The site is very vague, simply acknowledging that there will be a cost but claiming that it will be small. Small by what standards? I have a feeling this will have a much larger impact, financially, than most of you are willing to believe. I load my own ammo, as do lots of other Americans. Is this going to become illegal? How am I supposed to etch my bullets and cases? Is it going to be illegal to cast my own lead bullets? They already have a database in New York for ballistic characterics. Every gun sold is test fired and the bullet is kept with the characterists enterred in a database. So far in the 7 years of the program, 7 million tax payer dollars have been spent and zero arrests have been made. Do we really need more expensive, intrusive and unneccessary laws and programs. So...YES IT IS A BIG DEAL!


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## MNmike

*Ammo*

not only will they know what guns you own.

But how much ammo too.

Maybe this will be a beginning to limiting the quantity of ammo you may have.

Don't you just love spending tax dollars to hamper the majority and near nill effect to the minority(criminal).


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## archery ham

This willl help about as much as the drug laws. :thumbs_do :angry:


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## mobowhntr

archery ham said:


> This willl help about as much as the drug laws. :thumbs_do :angry:


What? You mean were not winning the war on Drugs? And with all the laws and money thrown into it. Go figure uh.


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## bigbuckdn

IChim2 said:


> Let me see.....you have to register your fire arms=gov/state keeping track of you.....half a cent isn't going to bankrupt anyone.If someone steals or you happen to loose some rounds,turn it in and get a copy of the police report to protect you.The world has changed and it's not the one we once knew or grew up in.





twisted1600 said:


> As stated above:
> *Not a big deal*
> 
> The cost?A couple bucks at most per box.
> They will probable use laser inscription,same as they use to trace special diamonds.
> The purpose is to track down the person who used (or allowed to be used) the gun that the bullets where fired from.
> The purpose is to put violent criminals behind bars!
> The purpose is not to track firearms or the people who use them in a legal manner.
> Use some common sense guys.


ok not a big deal call remintom, winchester, nosler, hornady all the big boys
most say thaey can't even afford the machine to do the imprinting some even say they will shut down first millions of jobs lost even if they didn't the .0005 is on top of the cost of the ammo an imprinted box of rifle ammo is going to be around 100.00 a box plus the .0005


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## bigbuckdn

not to mention the guys like me who reload they still gonna sell me bullets ???? a box of 100 coded can't even think what that will cost 
didn't see muzzle loaders in any of that inline could get wore out


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## Cyrille

I've been wondering what, if anything, them ammo and gun manufactuers are gouing to do to fight the anti gun legeslation that the shooting community as a whole sees coming. To date it looks as though the arms businesses will do nothing Just as an example, last year maybe as early a Octoberor before [I can't remember when] a large online company begain having huge discount sales and they have continued into this year. I recently received one of their emails. I believe that they are trying to get out while the getting is good.
Which bodes ill for shooters and reloaders alike.


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## Caligater

polarbear06 said:


> I load my own ammo, as do lots of other Americans. Is this going to become illegal? How am I supposed to etch my bullets and cases? Is it going to be illegal to cast my own lead bullets?


I read on another site that all hand loads loaded with the pre-trace bullets will have to be destroyed.

For those of you saying "no big deal"....I think that's loco.  It's the "no big deal, it won't effect too much" attitude that allows them to inch away everything that millions of Americans hold sacred. And if you think it will be cheap to implement this, think again.


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## NELAwhitetail

*The Big Picture*



twisted1600 said:


> As stated above:
> *Not a big deal*
> 
> The cost?A couple bucks at most per box.
> They will probable use laser inscription,same as they use to trace special diamonds.
> The purpose is to track down the person who used (or allowed to be used) the gun that the bullets where fired from.
> The purpose is to put violent criminals behind bars!
> The purpose is not to track firearms or the people who use them in a legal manner.
> Use some common sense guys.


Well, this is the opinion the government wants you to take. They want you to believe that it is in our own best interests. And in one small way, it is. But while every "law-abiding citizen" buys his/her bullets from a reputable dealer, a criminal buys his from the black market; which is supplied by illegal imports. The only way this "laser etched" ammo route would possibly work is if EVERY ammo manufacturer in the WORLD were to use the same technology. That is a LONG shot at best. Then if every manufacturer were to use it, there would be one or two rogue factories in the hills of china, producing unmarked bullets, just like unmarked money. Or even using a Laser to make false serial numbers. When a void is created-no marked ammo-money will talk and someone will cash in.

Back to the government. The government wants you to be blinded by the idea that this Panacea technology will SOLVE all murders, not PREVENT. While you are blind to the idea of being tracked with serial numbers, the real motive is to have a way to track ammo. To me it is not about being tracked, it is the small baby-steps that the government is taking to get so very powerful on some issues. I could care less about them knowing what bullets I have, almost all of mine end up in the woods somewhere. My main issue with all of this is the governments ABILITY and POWER to track me. Getting the original bill passed is the main hurdle, having it ammended and tweaked later is MUCH easier to do. 

Do a quick search on gun control laws, and you will see the big picture. Up until lately, the baby-steps have been superficial. But all of the easy steps have been taken. Now the first BIG step is here, and the Congress wants us to step aside and let it happen, because it COULD, MAYBE, in a perfect world, possibly help solve a few crimes quicker.


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## NELAwhitetail

*How much ammo??*



MNmike said:


> not only will they know what guns you own.
> 
> But how much ammo too.
> 
> Maybe this will be a beginning to limiting the quantity of ammo you may have.
> 
> Don't you just love spending tax dollars to hamper the majority and near nill effect to the minority(criminal).


They dont care how much ammo you have. They wont have a form for you to fill out listing the serial numbers of the rounds you fired one day in the woods, therefore they cannot give someone a limit on how many you can have. Because all I would do is go in and buy my limit on Monday, then on Tuesday say I fired all of them, and buy my limit on Tuesday, and so on. The real goal of the government is the same as when they first outlawed marijuana. It wasnt illegal to own pot. It was illegal to have it in your possession without a Federally issued and printed Marijuana Tax Stamp. The catch is that there were no Marijuana Tax Stamps printed!! When they start making coded ammunition, they will have to issue a box of ammo and all of the contents' serial numbers to a specific person. That person will have to purchase a Purchase Permit from the government. You want to guess how many of those licenses will be issued? or how much clearance you will have to have to get one???


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## Rambu

hey if you need ammo that is clean and cheap... let me know... the black market gives you way better deals... :darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer:

but for real... guns are cheap through them.. ammo is even cheaper.. 

and the best part the gov does not know about it... sure some of the guns may be hot or dirty... but so what.. as long as you dont use it for wrong... they will never look at your numbers... :tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue:


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## NELAwhitetail

If you get stopped and the cop asks to search your car, be POSITIVE you have no scent detectable by a dog. If that dog hits on the car, and he searches it, the least you will get is arrested for possession of stolen goods. Probably more.

But I do know some guys who get guns with a wiped number for dirt cheap. We are talkin glocks in pretty good condition for under 2 bills. ARs for under 3bills. Most ARs I have seen confiscated are in immaculate condition, better than mine. You just got to be REAL careful dealing in the black market. If ANYTHING goes south, you are goin "down" with it.


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## whitetail2nitro

You guys better do something to shoot this law or future law down. The govt (Canadian and U.S) will always pick on the legal gun owners....while the criminals gets to run amok with their black-market guns and bullets.

In Canada you can't buy any type of ammo....whether it's shotgun, long gun and definitely no handgun ammo unless you have taken and passed a hunting and safety course.....handgun ammo, you'll need prove that you're in a gun club.

About 20 years ago....Canada gun owners were required to re-register all their firearms for a $10.00 one-time fee. Then it was changed to $10.00 for each firearm...one-time fee also. About 5 years ago there's talk about changing the law to $10.00 per firearm every year.

So far the Canadian govt have spent over $1 billion to keep the "Gun Registry" going..... Unfortunately lots of police forces have tried to access the registry and end up with wrong infomation....so the police don't rely on it anymore.

Since the implement of the law.....gun shootings have increased in Vancouver B.C., Edmonton and Calgary AB. and Toronto ON. Guess the criminals are using black-market firearms........and not registering them.


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## Squishface

I don't post much on here as you can tell...but I came across this thread and I just had to comment. It sickens me that some gun owners are so naive that they are willing to just throw away our rights in order to give someone else a false sense of security. They also don't seem to really consider the magnitude of something like this. 

Most of the smaller ammunition manufacturers would not be able to continue to do business. Even some of the larger ones might have issues complying. That would leave many unemployed and drive up the price of ammunition. Also, we know a large number of foreign companies would not comply with these regulations, raising the cost yet again. You can argue with your .5 cent nonsense but we all know it would end up being a lot more than that in the end. 

Do you own a gun in a not-so-popular caliber? Do you like to handload? Do you swage your own? Good luck finding components that comply! Now you can use all your unpopular chambered guns as paperweights. This would be the end of most wildcat cartridges and creative new specialty rounds as well. Guess where a lot of the ammo we use came from originally? Wildcat cartridges.

Do you shoot competitively? If so, I bet you shoot MANY more rounds than your average hunter does. Good luck being able to afford it when the price skyrockets. 

What happens to shotshells after this anyways? As a second step, could they be considered to be non-compliant? What would stop criminals from using shotguns? The damage this bill would cause would make the AWB seem like a fun vacation. This has the potential to do severe harm to gun owners' rights. This is a really really big deal.

I'm sure there's a dozen other bad things that would come of this but I'll make it somewhat brief (ha). Would this stop any criminals or do any good at all? We know it won't. 

I doubt something like this would ever pass (because it's RIDICULOUS).. but what I can't understand is how some of you people willing to throw away your privacy and your rights for no good reason? I'm disgusted. You should be ashamed of yourselves as gun owners and Americans. If you want to deal with like-minded people I suggest you go to the Brady site where you can preach to the choir and work towards trampling on the constitution even more.

Ok, rant over.


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## old skool

Coded ammo's only the beginning, Buckwheat, Pelosi & Reid want us totally disarmed!!!!!


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## JohnnyRazorhead

It is a very big deal! Federal income tax was a TEMPORARY tax in a time when our country was in need. It has never gone away but has gotten out of hand. That is probably the best outcome that will happen if this tax passes is that it will get high. My gut tells me it is the snowball at the top of the mountain starting to roll down. Get your heads out of the sand.


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## warped Arrow

IChim2 said:


> Let me see.....you have to register your fire arms...........The world has changed and it's not the one we once knew or grew up in.


You dont HAVE to register them.....and no, it isnt the same world we grew up in



IChim2 said:


> Yes i'm from Mo...lived here and hunted here all my life.All you may not know this but every phone call we make is recorded and a record kept of what time we made it.Every time someone uses their cell phone the time and aprox-location is recorded,every time we get on the internet were be watched and every site we visit is being tracked.......it's just not that big a deal.


Actually it is, Your fredom and civil liberties are being infringed upon. I fought for that freedom and I will fight for it again.



Okie X said:


> I don't want more govt in my life. Do you?
> 
> Sure, say it's just a small thing. Another small intrusion into my life.
> Look man, I don't need the govt to protect my from everything or expect them too. And people who believe the govt. can are sheep. This is the USA. I don't want to be tracked, traced, watched, overtaxed, or otherwise bothered by my govt. I have guns that are not registered and that my govt doesn't _know_ about. And if you ask me why do I own guns, even my registered ones, I will tell you it is to shoot the bad guys with. Well everyday the govt. gets away with crap like this they become closer to being the bad guys and not the govt. that the founding fathers fought and died for and the one I claim as mine.
> 
> You guys who just act like the govt. only wants to help when stuff like this is suggested are naive.
> 
> The cost - It will be a whole lot more than a couple of bucks. Fees and taxes like this only go up.
> 
> The purpose - To track US citizens. Free people aren't we?
> 
> You say it's not to track firearms or the people who use them legally? Well let me tell you about an interview I seen with the largest gun dealer in Oklahoma. When asked how many bad guys did the background checks for gun sales produce last year he said none. The interviewer looked stunned at this answer. He said " Look, bad guys don't buy guns at gun stores."
> 
> So who they gona track. Who _do they wanta_ track is my question.


*AMEN!!!!*



JohnnyRazorhead said:


> It is a very big deal! Federal income tax was a TEMPORARY tax in a time when our country was in need. It has never gone away but has gotten out of hand. That is probably the best outcome that will happen if this tax passes is that it will get high. My gut tells me it is the snowball at the top of the mountain starting to roll down. Get your heads out of the sand.


Can I get a witness!!!


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## Horses&Hunting

I have to agree with what one said about how its not Obamas fault. I don't believe hes the one running around killing people with guns. I heard on the new news the other day that two kids were fighting over a hand gun which was a .22. One of them got shot in the head. Found out the boy took it from a family members home and the girl was trying to take it away from him. Keep in mind these were young kids. Its just sad that people don't know how to lock there guns up. This is why they are trying to pass these kinds of laws. People need to be educated about guns. If they are that dumb then there guns should be taken away from them. I can see why they want to code the ammo. Just would like to see how they get rid of the old stuff. Big fire works show. Think they should reimburse one because of the money that was spent on the ammo.


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## Okie X

How is coded ammo gona keep some kids from taking a hand gun from a family members home?

:BangHead:


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## Horses&Hunting

It doesn't help. But my point was that because of uneducated people with lack of brains is why we are having laws like this come up. Those people shouldn't even be allowed to think about having guns. Letting kids get them and then end up getting shot. Just dumb.


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## N2RCHRY

Horses&Hunting said:


> It doesn't help. But my point was that because of uneducated people with lack of brains is why we are having laws like this come up. Those people shouldn't even be allowed to think about having guns. Letting kids get them and then end up getting shot. Just dumb.


Not nearly dumb as your view. Like someone said, enforce the laws we have. Don't add new REALLY dumb laws to try and save us from ourselves.


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## Horses&Hunting

I'd rather have my dumb views vs some of the others views on this forum. lol. I really believe that people have a hard time seeing that reality of it all. You have parents that leave there guns where ever they please. You have gangs on the streets doing whatever they please. And yet the laws are just fine as is? I don't think so. Those people that leave there guns laying around need to be dealt with. Need to be taught how to lock up their guns so no one can get them. The gang issue, well thats for the cops to deal with. Because us americans can't do anything about that, unless we go and try to take there guns away. Which won't ever happen. So because of all this madness is why the government wants to impose more laws. Do I blame them, no I do not. All they want to do is be able to track who bought what and when it was bought. So if you go out and shot someone they will be able to find who did it. If you loose your ammo, or its stolen then report it. How hard is that. We wouldn't be in this tight spot if people would learn how to handle guns the right way and keep the guns out of criminals hands. My 2 cents. 

Panuttles are awesome. And my cat has brain problems. As she is now nice when she was mean as all get out. To many cartoons for her. lol


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## N2RCHRY

Horses&Hunting said:


> Those people that leave there guns laying around need to be dealt with.



Don't know about your state but in Fl. there ARE laws regarding guns being left out where minors can get ahold of them. Do you REALLY believe coding ammo is gonna solve murders? C'mon. You been watching to much CSI...


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## Silver Pine

Horses&Hunting said:


> It doesn't help. But *my point was that because of uneducated people* with lack of brains is why we are having laws like this come up. Those people shouldn't even be allowed to think about having guns. Letting kids get them and then end up getting shot. Just dumb.





Horses&Hunting said:


> I'd rather have my dumb views vs some of the others views on this forum. lol. I really believe that *people have a hard time seeing that reality of it all*. You have parents that leave there guns where ever they please. You have gangs on the streets doing whatever they please. And yet the laws are just fine as is? I don't think so. Those people that leave there guns laying around need to be dealt with. Need to be taught how to lock up their guns so no one can get them. The gang issue, well thats for the cops to deal with. Because us americans can't do anything about that, unless we go and try to take there guns away. Which won't ever happen. So because of all this madness is why the government wants to impose more laws. Do I blame them, no I do not. All they want to do is be able to track who bought what and when it was bought. So if you go out and shot someone they will be able to find who did it. If you loose your ammo, or its stolen then report it. How hard is that. We wouldn't be in this tight spot if people would learn how to handle guns the right way and keep the guns out of criminals hands. My 2 cents.



Who are you calling "uneducated"? People aren't having a hard time seeing the reality of it all. You are. You need to educate yourself on the law, the U.S. Constitution and firearms in general.

1) Besides confirming an "individual right" to own a firearm, the Supreme Court ruled in District of Columbia v. Heller that -

_....“We must also address the District’s requirement (as applied to respondent’s handgun) that firearms in the home be rendered and kept inoperable at all times. *This makes it impossible for citizens to use them for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional. *_

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=235

Locking your guns up to keep them out of the hands of children is your choice not the governments (per Heller). However, you should educate them as to why firearms are not toys. The NRA's Eddie Eagle program can help you with that.

http://nratraining.moonfruit.com/#/eddyeagle/4529044920
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/products.aspx?cat=EE_Books

If you see a gun: 
* STOP!
* Don't Touch.
* Leave the Area.
* Tell an Adult.


2) We Americans CAN do something about "the gang issue". First, refuse to be a victim. Criminals look for unarmed victims. Second, there are already laws to deal with gang members and illegal gun possession and use. ENFORCE THEM. Demand that your politically appointed police chief have the bad guys arrested and that your States Attorney (or whatever you call your top prosecutor) demand actual jail time for those convicted. No plea bargains. A manditory 5 years for using a gun in a crime was tried but the ACLU says that takes away from the judges discretion. 

3) The madness is that the government doesn't enforce the laws that are already on the books. They can't force felons to register their firearms so who are they trying to register? You and me that's who. Why? If you had an understanding of the history of firearms registration/confiscation in this country you would know why. First comes registration then comes confiscation. California in 1998 and 1999, Chicago and New Orleans come to mind. 


4) If our ammunition is stolen, should the government make us criminals? In a free society, the burden of proof is not upon those who wish to exercise their rights, it is upon those who wish to restrict rights. In other words, we haven't done anything wrong? We're the victims and you think it's OK for the government to fine us or put us in jail? How does that stop criminals?


5) The OP is about encoding ammunition. Besides being extremely expensive to retool the industry, how is it even possible? The current method being pushed by the Brady Bunch gun banner groups is to etch each case and bullet with a serial number. Recovered bullets are rarely recognizable beyond a few scratch marks and extreme heat and high pressure obliterate any numbers etched into the brass plus etching weakens the brass wall and makes it unsafe to fire. Revolvers and shell catchers don't leave brass laying around to be found. Or the bad guys could just dismantle their rounds, remove the numbers and reassemble them making the whole encoding effort useless.

Encoding is a waste of time, money and manpower UNLESS the reason is to increase the cost of ammunition and firearms to the point where few people could afford to own them. Which is *exactly* what the Brady bunch, George Soros, the UN and the senior Democrats in CONGRESS have in mind.

:cocktail:


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