# maybe a dumb stabilizer question



## DPretz (Apr 30, 2021)

Following


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## Flyinhawaiian (Nov 2, 2018)

A stabilizer should be as lightweight as possible, while also remaining as inflexible as possible. Often times the higher end rods are made from carbon fiber, which is more costly to produce than aluminum or steel. Marketing and branding is surely a factor in cost as well. I shoot modulus carbon bars on my recurve and on my compound target rigs. It is certainly a personal decision, but since my focus is on scoring as high as possible in target archery, and changing anything on my setups requires retuning, I preferred to buy the best I could afford the first go around.


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## roushvert9 (Sep 21, 2010)

Flyinhawaiian said:


> A stabilizer should be as lightweight as possible, while also remaining as inflexible as possible. Often times the higher end rods are made from carbon fiber, which is more costly to produce than aluminum or steel. Marketing and branding is surely a factor in cost as well. I shoot modulus carbon bars on my recurve and on my compound target rigs. It is certainly a personal decision, but since my focus is on scoring as high as possible in target archery, and changing anything on my setups requires retuning, I preferred to buy the best I could afford the first go around.



while i do agree with buying the best you can afford as i usually do that with anything in life, my question more so pertains to just getting started having no clue what you would ultimately need or feel the best with. having no clue if i need 26, 28,30,32. Or feel more comfortable with something different


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## Sudduth49 (Jul 30, 2020)

I currently shoot B Stinger on my hunting and target bows, just because it’s what bran I bought not that I think they’re any better than any other brand. I shoot a 30” bar with 3oz of weight and a 12” bar with 12 oz of weight on the back for my open set up. My Hunter class set up, i shoot the same 12”/12oz back bar but a 10” front bar with 7oz. These 2 combinations balance the bow about the same, just one is Hunter class legal. You can make any shoot well with the right amount of weight; however I do notice my pin float is significantly better with the long bar. I think I read it here first that with an adult DL and a longer ATA bow to start with the 30/12 and adjust from there.


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## roushvert9 (Sep 21, 2010)

Sudduth49 said:


> I currently shoot B Stinger on my hunting and target bows, just because it’s what bran I bought not that I think they’re any better than any other brand. I shoot a 30” bar with 3oz of weight and a 12” bar with 12 oz of weight on the back for my open set up. My Hunter class set up, i shoot the same 12”/12oz back bar but a 10” front bar with 7oz. These 2 combinations balance the bow about the same, just one is Hunter class legal. You can make any shoot well with the right amount of weight; however I do notice my pin float is significantly better with the long bar. I think I read it here first that with an adult DL and a longer ATA bow to start with the 30/12 and adjust from there.



yeah i am setting up a Bowtech Reckoning 38


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

Long bars are a very personal thing.... but here are some of my experiences:

- Cheap bars will stabilize the bow just as well as the expensive ones. BUT, they will rattle/vibrate the fillings out of your teeth!!!!! I started with a set of bars from Amazon that were $55 for the set.... I gave them away for the cost of shipping. I don't know where they are today but I'd bet $$$ that they are still vibrating from the last time they were on my bow 10 years ago!

- The negative experience with cheap bars will get worse the more weight you add to them. 

- The few cheap bars that are somewhat shootable vibration wise are very heavy which is counter productive as the purpose of the long bars is to move weight out and away from the bow. The second set of cheap bars didn't vibrate so much but made my bow almost a pound heavier with the same amount of weight....

My advice is when it comes to bars, "Buy once, Cry once".... I'd suggest 27/12 for you and 24/10 for your son....


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## BigJohnx13 (Sep 8, 2013)

I shoot a compound hunting bow. Our bow shop was run by bow shooters themselves and was pride to deliver a service rather than upselling. When I purchased my bow I complained there was a awkward vibration while shooting. They fetch 4 stabilizers in all shapes and sizes and prices. I test all 4, The shortest and cheapest one was the best one and still using it after 7 years.


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## roushvert9 (Sep 21, 2010)

1/2 Bubble Off said:


> Long bars are a very personal thing.... but here are some of my experiences:
> 
> - Cheap bars will stabilize the bow just as well as the expensive ones. BUT, they will rattle/vibrate the fillings out of your teeth!!!!! I started with a set of bars from Amazon that were $55 for the set.... I gave them away for the cost of shipping. I don't know where they are today but I'd bet $$$ that they are still vibrating from the last time they were on my bow 10 years ago!
> 
> ...


does draw length play into it at all?


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

roushvert9 said:


> does draw length play into it at all?


I don't think so except as a matter of preference... I know a very short woman (25.5" DL) who shoots a 30" bar.... I (28.5-29" DL)shot a 27" bar for years.... (I might even go back to it)


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## catalyst81 (Oct 11, 2018)

For those who have tested a lot of stabilizers, will stabilizers of the same length mostly all feel the same if made from the same material? For example, if you test three 30" stabilizers made of carbon fiber with the same amount of weight on them, can you pretty much count on them feeling about the same and know that 30" is the way to go or could one manufacturer's 30" stab feel great but another manufacturer's 28" stab feel great while their 30" stab doesn't? I guess what I'm asking is assuming the same materials or close to it, is length the greatest determining factor in how it will feel, or could each one have a different feel and you just need to try a bunch of different lengths from different manufacturers out? If length is the greatest determining factor, it seems like you could narrow that down by testing a few (other archers or a shop) and once you know the best length then decide how much you want to spend.


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

catalyst81 said:


> For those who have tested a lot of stabilizers, will stabilizers of the same length mostly all feel the same if made from the same material? For example, if you test three 30" stabilizers made of carbon fiber with the same amount of weight on them, can you pretty much count on them feeling about the same and know that 30" is the way to go or could one manufacturer's 30" stab feel great but another manufacturer's 28" stab feel great while their 30" stab doesn't? I guess what I'm asking is assuming the same materials or close to it, is length the greatest determining factor in how it will feel, or could each one have a different feel and you just need to try a bunch of different lengths from different manufacturers out? If length is the greatest determining factor, it seems like you could narrow that down by testing a few (other archers or a shop) and once you know the best length then decide how much you want to spend.


Some bars are way stiffer or have better vibration materials.... So at full draw, most will feel the same. But on the shot, you will KNOW the difference in the quality of the bars....


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## Tony- (Jan 4, 2019)

I’d say the difference between high end and low end bar is very small, and if it is made in China the carbon bar won't cost as much as you'd expect. The margin is so fat for the US manufacturer. It is similar to the Rage broadheads, in US it costs at least 50 bucks for 3, while the Chinese knockoffs proven as effective as the original one, each costs only $2.
Imagine getting orders from China and sell it for $50 per pack, that's insane.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

roushvert9 said:


> If the ultimate goal of a long rod is to figure out the correct length and weight to keep the bow calm/stable while shooting, Then what is the difference between using a rod that cost 50 vs one that costs 400? Ultimately i know if it works then who cares what it costs
> 
> Do people use the cheaper ones to figure out the ideal length and weight and then invest in a higher end set?
> 
> ...


Length is personal choice. A front 28 to 30" is most common for target bows. 12 to 15" is most common on the back, again, target bows.

More than likely a cheap 30" won't help with what weight is needed. Vibration and the stab bouncing all over ain't good.
Back bars being shorter can take more weight than one thinks - okay, short equal stiffer. 

I've been that route. Cheap usually mean not good quality as in vibration and gets worse with more weight on the end. 
I have old Cartel 30" does well as long as I don't exceed 5 ounces. I have a 30" Bee Stinger Competitor that can handle up to 10 ounces. 

Bow tune, bow set up is a factor. Combinations play into this as well.

Here's one of my bows that has done well over the years. It remains my back up bow. It's a 2012 Pearson MarXman/
1st pic - 30" Cartel with 3 ounces on the front and Bernie's Vibration balls on the back filled with 2 1/2 ounces each / total 5 ounces. It shot great.
2nd pic - 30" Cartel with 5 ounces on the front and a 10" Bee Stinger with 10 ounces on it < This set up gave the best for that year. Worst finish was a 4th at a ASA State Qualifier.
3rd pic - 30" Bee Stinger Competitor with 8 ounces on the front and two 12" Bee Stinger stabs on the back with 10 ounces on the left and 8 ounces on the right. Front had a 10 degree down quick disconnect and back bars set the same. It did well, but proved too heavy for me. 











My Pearson 2018 MX3 has a 30" Bee Stinger on the front with 7 ounces and a single 12" Bee Stinger back bar with 15 ounces on it. It shoots great. Again, 10 degree down quick disconnect on the front and back bar set the same 10 degrees down. 

Another, my ok archery Absolute 38. It is different. Straight disconnect up front and a 30" Bee Stinger with 3 ounces. Back bar is a 12" Bee Stinger with 6 ounces. Bow shoots great.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Weights for stabs. First, start with only the stabs. See how the reacts. Weight on the front slows side to side. Weight on the back offsets weight on the front. Start with 2 ounces, maybe 3 ounces on the front. Any time you add weight you test.
There is a formula that gets you in the Ball Park. Can be found. Google Stabilizers Oh My by George Ryals - aka Griv.
Ratios vary. Bow, you and whatever. 1 to 2 is common. 1 to 3 is sort of common. 1 to1 is rare.
Start out light and build up. Too much all at once can hurt you..

Griv's Formula
"length of front bar times weight on front bar = "X"
Then:
"X" divided by length of back bar = weight on back bar.
example:
27" Front bar length times weight of 4 ounces = 108
108 / 12" rear bar length = 9 ounces for the rear bar.
You then take the 9 ounces, put it on the rear bar. If you do a true V bar, you split the weights between the two bars. If you do a side bar, you do it on the solo side bar.
You then add or remove weight on the rear bar only. Aim for the X. Remove or add weight until your side to side "misses" are down to a nice, ragged oval that basically kills the X."

Figure mine for the MX3 I noted above. My MX3 comes in at 8 pounds even.
7 on the front 30"
7 X 30 = 210 / 12 = 17.5 ounces on the back 12" - but 15 ounces does it for me. But read on. 

Griv's formual doesn't state use of quick disconnects. Measure from the bow. Well, if that my front 30" is actually 31.5" and back is actually 14.5"
Try it again
7 X 31.5 = 220.5 / 14.5 = 15.2 ounces - makes mine right. 

Personal preference, bow and whatever. Once asked Chance Beaufouef of his stabs on his Echelon 39, He gave of 30" front with 10 ounces and a single 14" with 30 oz. This would twist my bow arm something terrible.

Friend tried to mimic a ASA Pro. Pushing over 11 pounds. After a while my friend got hurting....The weight too much for him. Last time I saw him he had his bow weighing less than mine. Hey, my friend is big enough go bear hunting with a switch...


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## Since1985Tx (Jan 19, 2021)

_Unfortunately in stabilizers you get what you *pay for. *
Even if you decide on a brand, each brand usually has two or three different matching front and aft rod models and three different price ranges for the different models._


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## 8025952 (Sep 7, 2020)

The longer the bar the less weight up front is needed for the the lever affect. The further the weight is from the bow the more effective the turn to transitional weight from mas weight. The more expensive bars are added vibration dampening and diameter. Smaller helps in wind and tend to be stiffer. The stiffness of a bar aids in transfer recovery. This is when you come to full draw and transfer the weight from your arms and chest to your back. When this motion happens the bow bounces in your palm. Long rods show this and the weaker rods take longer to come to rest. Also when your nerves are really high and your hands are not perfectly relaxed the bar can get a shake. The goal is for the bar to stop its bounce and flex as quickly as possible. The more flex and bounce the more the pin Float is unsteady the longer you are at full draw. The float should be slow and have a similar pattern shot after shot. The longer at full draw the more chance of shot decay. It's all very personal choice to the shooter. A good formed archer can shoot anything well, it's more or less what helps your personal shot the most.


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## nthn3875 (Jun 21, 2021)

So does the vibration mitigation of the more expensive bars come from the higher stiffness of the materials and tighter tolerancing of manufactured parts or do the higher priced bars have some kind of active vibration control that is causing the higher price? Or another way to put it, are they more expensive just because the machining, assembly and materials are higher quality or is there something else?


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## roushvert9 (Sep 21, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Length is personal choice. A front 28 to 30" is most common for target bows. 12 to 15" is most common on the back, again, target bows.
> 
> More than likely a cheap 30" won't help with what weight is needed. Vibration and the stab bouncing all over ain't good.
> Back bars being shorter can take more weight than one thinks - okay, short equal stiffer.
> ...



So would you stay away from Cartel now days since im assuming they are considered cheap? The Cartel Supreme cx-250 is on ei was looking at just to play around with to see what might be needed


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

roushvert9 said:


> So would you stay away from Cartel now days since im assuming they are considered cheap? The Cartel Supreme cx-250 is on ei was looking at just to play around with to see what might be needed


Price tag alone says it's cheap....And the rubber dampener doesn't thrill me. Go with something in the $120 to $180 range. Easton, Dead Center, Hot Rodz. Evidently you're new new to target stabs. Weight alone will set you back. Okay, gathered up all I have over a period of time. I've got $250+ or wrapped up in weights - 2 bows though. I got them in single 8 ounce, single 4 ounce and a bunch of 1 ounce weights. 

My old 30" Cartel cost $85.00 almost 18 years ago. It can just take 5 ounces. It is no longer shown. Any more it begins to bounce and sends a bit vibration. And then I had to jury rig to get up to 5 ounces.


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## roushvert9 (Sep 21, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Price tag alone says it's cheap....And the rubber dampener doesn't thrill me. Go with something in the $120 to $180 range. Easton, Dead Center, Hot Rodz. Evidently you're new new to target stabs. Weight alone will set you back. Okay, gathered up all I have over a period of time. I've got $250+ or wrapped up in weights - 2 bows though. I got them in single 8 ounce, single 4 ounce and a bunch of 1 ounce weights.
> 
> My old 30" Cartel cost $85.00 almost 18 years ago. It can just take 5 ounces. It is no longer shown. Any more it begins to bounce and sends a bit vibration. And then I had to jury rig to get up to 5 ounces.



I wasnt saying based on price alone it is cheap but i could tell by price and description. I can probably save here and there for a couple weeks and drop 150-175 on a long bar. I am just wanting to get something set up that will half way work so i can shoot with my son. Then eventually i would like to keep improving the set up and myself and do local tournaments and stuff


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## 8025952 (Sep 7, 2020)

Easton z comps are decent mid range bars if your staying indoor. And it leaves ya some extra scratch. But material and if the have internal dampening raises the price. In all reality it's because we will pay it lol. There's alot of things in archery that do not justify the price tag, especially in the target realm.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

roushvert9 said:


> I wasnt saying based on price alone it is cheap but i could tell by price and description. I can probably save here and there for a couple weeks and drop 150-175 on a long bar. I am just wanting to get something set up that will half way work so i can shoot with my son. Then eventually i would like to keep improving the set up and myself and do local tournaments and stuff


You asked.... Cheap is a real possibility of the stab bouncing. Managed a archery shop some time back. We got in 3 Cartel stabs, 28" I think. The stab and weights that came with it. They bounced so bad the boss sent them back...Like I noted mine is no longer available. It was Cartel's best at the time....

And you don't need target stabs to shoot and shoot well. I shot 3D and Indoor with a 8" N.A.P. Shock Blocker for 3 years. No one stomped on me. Indoor League - Bow Hunter Free Style - shot High Overall 10 weeks in a row.....


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## Bow-bow (Dec 20, 2008)

Another thing to consider when starting out is weights. Do your wallet a favor and go to the hardware and get a couple packs of fender washers. Play with your weights to get your balance where you want and then buy the "archery"weights you need for your bars, or just run them as is.


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