# 2014 HOYT "Carbon Spyder"



## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Yeah, we've all seen the ad. Now what we need is some real intel.

If they get rid of the fixed rollers there's a good chance I'll buy one. If not, I'll be buying something else or waiting another year.


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## TxReezen7.0 (Feb 10, 2013)

Very interesting


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Its their current add they are running. But yes they are having a new lighter carbon bow this year. A "carbon spyder" if you will though I don't know its offical name.


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

Predator said:


> Yeah, we've all seen the ad. Now what we need is some real intel.


Sorry, my laptop has been busted for the past week...today is the 1st time I've seen the ad. 


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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

When is hoyt releasing they're new line up?


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

4IDARCHER said:


> Its their current add they are running. But yes they are having a new lighter carbon bow this year. A "carbon spyder" if you will though I don't know its offical name.


How sure are you, that this bow will be lighter than the Element?


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

bowtecha said:


> When is hoyt releasing they're new line up?


I just called a buddy of mine who's a local Hoyt dealer, all he would tell me is that dealers were supposed to receive their annual "pre-order" & "sneak peek" specs email from Hoyt yesterday...according to him there are going to be 6 brand new Hoyt's in the 2014 line up.

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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

I would guess two aluminum riser flagships, a price point bow like the charger, and 2 carbon bows and a target bow


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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

Don't they usually release them about the 15th of oct?


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

bowtecha said:


> Don't they usually release them about the 15th of oct?


I bet we'll see the first photos on the 17th, after the dealer meeting at Hoyt's facility in SLC...

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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

Lol I want that pearl white matrix for sale...wish they would come out with a matrix turbo


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

I've not seen any add for this.


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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

I think Im officially a Hoyt fan boy...tried everything out there...pse and Mathews would be my closest pick but I just can't get over the cam & 1/2 system and the forgiveness of hoyts


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> I've not seen any add for this.


It was posted on John Dudley's Facebook page this evening, looks like the back cover of a magazine...

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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

I could only wish for a 38 ata carbon bow


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## BeastofEast (Sep 19, 2011)

hmmm interesting. with afew hundred $$ more price tag tacked onto it as usual. was extra 100$ last yr, whats it gonna be this yr?


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

Luv2shoot3D said:


> I could only wish for a 38 ata carbon bow


You and me both!!!

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## Dylanl (May 14, 2010)

I'd be pretty excited about a carbon spyder. If that's their new bow this year I'd be really interested in one. I really liked the spyder and have been thinking of a carbon bow for awhile now. I can't wait to see the whole lineup.


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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

Dylanl said:


> I'd be pretty excited about a carbon spyder. If that's their new bow this year I'd be really interested in one. I really liked the spyder and have been thinking of a carbon bow for awhile now. I can't wait to see the whole lineup.


I'd like to see a spyder turbo carbon or something with a 6" BH, ATA of at least 34"


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## 737flyer (Dec 8, 2009)

bowtecha said:


> Lol I want that pearl white matrix for sale...wish they would come out with a matrix turbo


Sorry, I bought it.


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

737flyer said:


> Sorry, I bought it.


I'm glad wildman made a deal, he and I were in talks with each other about a possible trade for my blackout Matrix...but he decided to go a different direction, congrats on the new bow! 

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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

Lol dang it...oh well can't afford it right now anyway


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## OCHO505 (May 27, 2010)

I have seen the spec sheet... All I can say is new carbon and new aluminum... Yup the 17th too...
So Bowtech best make some new bad shizzle or I will likely own a Hoyt this year cause last few are ehh ok but no Destroyer or Invasion so...


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

Can you say on ata on carbon??


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## SWOreBowHunter (Apr 13, 2013)

Predator said:


> Yeah, we've all seen the ad. Now what we need is some real intel.
> 
> If they get rid of the fixed rollers there's a good chance I'll buy one. If not, I'll be buying something else or waiting another year.


I'm having problems with the fixed rollers on my Z7X, and I'm thinking of buying a new bow next year because of it. I was thinking of getting a Carbon Element, but have they been having any problems with their fixed rollers?


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## Zach Jaynes (Feb 24, 2013)

I anxiously await the release as well. I bought a Charger (well my wife bought it for me this past Christmas-my first compound bow ever) and I have become totally addicted to 3D. I love to hunt whitetail and will do plenty of that, but I dig hunting some foam in a BIG kinda way. I'm admittedly a Hoyt fanboy already, and I would love to purchase more of a high end bow for 3D tournaments, but something that I could still take to the woods as well. I really had my eye on the Alpha Elite, then more so the Spyder 34. I guess I'll wait a few weeks and see what they have to offer so I can start making my list out for Santa! My son and I plan to hit the 3D trail full force next season. I probably won't do any good, but I guarantee we'll have fun!


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

Luv2shoot3D said:


> Can you say on ata on carbon??


We haven't got the spec sheet yet but I would bet 32"

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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

SWOreBowHunter said:


> I'm having problems with the fixed rollers on my Z7X, and I'm thinking of buying a new bow next year because of it. I was thinking of getting a Carbon Element, but have they been having any problems with their fixed rollers?


The fixed rollers can cause the bow to tune way outside of center, possible excessive cam lean and absolutely more than ideal lateral torque. Some bows are worse than others as Hoyt has a range of tolerances (like all bow companies I suspect) within which they'll let a bow leave the factory.

I will say that the carbon bows are supposed to be a little better from a tuning perspective as the riser is stiffer so the fixed rollers don't have quite as much negative effect.

Going to some sort of flex system (or even back to a simple slide) is such an easy fix that if Hoyt doesn't address this issue it will be a MAJOR FAILURE on their part. Engineers at almost every other major bow company have recognized this and fixed it. Bowtech has had the flex rollers for a couple of years now. PSE has the flex guard system. Prime has a flex system. The new Bears now have a flex system. And even Mathews went to the reverse assist rollers a couple of years ago as they recognized how much torque their standard roller guard system was causing. Note also that this is more of an issue with the short ATA/BH hunting bows as the impact of the fixed roller guard is magnified.

If Hoyt fixes this issue and maybe adds a little speed and improves their finishes they will stand out in the crowd and sell a TON of bows!


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Predator said:


> Yeah, we've all seen the ad. Now what we need is some real intel.


:nod:


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Predator said:


> Going to some sort of flex system (or even back to a simple slide) is such an easy fix that if Hoyt doesn't address this issue it will be a MAJOR FAILURE on their part. Engineers at almost every other major bow company have recognized this and fixed it. Bowtech has had the flex rollers for a couple of years now. PSE has the flex guard system. Prime has a flex system. The new Bears now have a flex system. And even Mathews went to the reverse assist rollers a couple of years ago as they recognized how much torque their standard roller guard system was causing. Note also that this is more of an issue with the short ATA/BH hunting bows as the impact of the fixed roller guard is magnified.


Contagious and it works.


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## camosolo (Aug 14, 2009)

What big difference would a Carbon Spyder have over the current Element. Inch and a half shorter ATA? Sharper string angle? Might get a couple more fps but unless the Element is going away I don't see a true reason to upgrade for anyone.


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

camosolo said:


> ...but unless the Element is going away I don't see a true reason to upgrade for anyone.


This is where I'm at as well, currently I've got two Carbon-Matrix's (hunting & 3D) and am very anxiously awaiting the release of the 2014 line...pretty sure that I'd almost have to see the "wheel reinvented" in order to convince me to sell my bow(s), not sure that a flex slide is going to be a big enough reason for me to upgrade??? 










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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

the new line up will surprise many


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## MOBOW#1 (Jun 14, 2005)

BowHuntnKY said:


> the new line up will surprise many














I for one will not be suprised:teeth:


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

Yeah I think we all will be surprised when we see the price tag! lol 
I hope they come out with a longer ata bow that will do 345-355 ibo 6 inch bh, and reach 32'' draw. The LD matrix came close. I also would like a more soild back wall but thats just me and I doubt they will make a limb stop bow.


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## bighunterguy (May 2, 2012)

I love how people make a big deal over roller guards. Lol I guess my bow that is tuned better than I can shoot is an engineering failure. How in the world has Hoyt sold any of these "terrible" bows lol 


Messaged Delivered 330fps via G3 Element!


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

bighunterguy said:


> I love how people make a big deal over roller guards. Lol I guess my bow that is tuned better than I can shoot is an engineering failure. How in the world has Hoyt sold any of these "terrible" bows lol


Agreed, like I said a few posts back...I'm not so sure that a flex slide is going to be enough to make me sell my Matrix's, I don't have any beef with them at all. 



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## kc hay seed (Jul 12, 2007)

bbentley392t said:


> I just called a buddy of mine who's a local Hoyt dealer, all he would tell me is that dealers were supposed to receive their annual "pre-order" & "sneak peek" specs email from Hoyt yesterday...according to him there are going to be 6 brand new Hoyt's in the 2014 line up.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


I hope one of them is a carbon bow with a shoot through riser like the alfa elite.i will keep my matrix though.


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## OCHO505 (May 27, 2010)

Cough Cough maybe even a speed carbon Cough Cough...


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

The flex system makes it easier for you to hold on target better.try it and you will see.


bighunterguy said:


> I love how people make a big deal over roller guards. Lol I guess my bow that is tuned better than I can shoot is an engineering failure. How in the world has Hoyt sold any of these "terrible" bows lol
> 
> 
> Messaged Delivered 330fps via G3 Element!


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

BowHuntnKY said:


> the new line up will surprise many



:set1_thinking:...


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## bighunterguy (May 2, 2012)

0nepin said:


> The flex system makes it easier for you to hold on target better.try it and you will see.


I've owned every flagship Bowtech bow since the inception of the flex guard and notice no difference in accuracy. As far as tuning, the RKT cams are a lil tricky to get dialed in to my liking but I shoot my Element just as well as the Bowtech and PSE flex guard bows I had. 


Messaged Delivered 330fps via G3 Element!


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

bighunterguy said:


> I love how people make a big deal over roller guards. Lol I guess my bow that is tuned better than I can shoot is an engineering failure. How in the world has Hoyt sold any of these "terrible" bows lol
> 
> 
> Messaged Delivered 330fps via G3 Element!


The fixed rollers put a ton of lateral torque on the bow. The carbon risers can handle it better than the aluminum but it negatively affects all of them. I've tuned flex systems from PSE and Bowtech and also tuned the fixed rollers and I can tell you for certain there is a BIG difference. The engineers at basically every other bow company have recognized this issue (and addressed it) and I dare say they are a lot smarter than you on the issue. Hoyt is sometimes a little slow to catch on but let's hope they address this issue with the 2014 lineup.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Predator said:


> The fixed rollers can cause the bow to tune way outside of center, possible excessive cam lean and absolutely more than ideal lateral torque. Some bows are worse than others as Hoyt has a range of tolerances (like all bow companies I suspect) within which they'll let a bow leave the factory.
> 
> I will say that the carbon bows are supposed to be a little better from a tuning perspective as the riser is stiffer so the fixed rollers don't have quite as much negative effect.
> 
> ...




In my kingdom I would ban the use of all roller guards.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

I would happily live in your kingdom!


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

0nepin said:


> The flex system makes it easier for you to hold on target better.try it and you will see.



This is nothing but opinion or anecdotal evidence at best. A bow that does not have a roller guard that holds well can't be compared to a different bow with a roller guard with respect to anything. They are different bows. Show me real evidence where a specific bow with a roller guard holds worse than the very same bow without one and I will believe. Until then I say it is a combination of factors with respect to the personal preference of the shooter as to how a bow holds.


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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

Hoping they keep a 34-35 ATA turbo around, lol IMHO they could get rid of the air shox, neat idea but I really am not a fan of em. Alphashox were just as good and well the old saying keep it simple comes to mind. Especially in that aspect.


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## Diamond_Victory (Jul 12, 2006)

Looking forward to seeing the new bows.


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## BeastofEast (Sep 19, 2011)

someone leak some pics please!


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Its gotta be 35 ata or better and have spirals on it or I ain't buying.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

No shoot through carbon, element updated and renamed, it will be a solid offering this year but not a crazy revolutionary year.


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## fresnohunter (Jul 6, 2010)

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379025

Only comes in Pearl white but guaranteed lighter than the Element.


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

4IDARCHER said:


> No shoot through carbon, element updated and renamed, it will be a solid offering this year but not a crazy revolutionary year.


True, but it will cost more than last year.....


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## NTProf (Jun 12, 2008)

There will be two things for certain about Hoyt's 2014 lineup: 1) it will be way, way out of my price range; 2) people will continue to whine about the roller guards.


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## Mallardbreath (Dec 7, 2007)

Why are so many people so excited about a carbon Spyder? Wouldn't it be real similar to a Carbon Element?


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

Mallardbreath said:


> Why are so many people so excited about a carbon Spyder? Wouldn't it be real similar to a Carbon Element?


I think the idea of a new redesigned carbon riser is what's exciting people, myself included...the Matrix for example has been the same exact riser for 4 years now.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Same exact specs and dimensions as an Alphaburner but in a wicked carbon riser. The reflex would make it look so awesome. 

The dealers hate the DL specific spirals. 


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## HuntingFor1 (Mar 26, 2013)

If they change their bows as much as Elite, the Hoyt Carbon Spyder is going to simply be a Spider with carbon fiber print on it.


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## hoytalphamax (Jan 26, 2009)

NTProf said:


> There will be two things for certain about Hoyt's 2014 lineup: 1) it will be way, way out of my price range; 2) people will continue to whine about the roller guards.


Because the roller guards have been nothing but dumb from day one.They belong on a Matthews not a Hoyt. 


Sent while sitting in a apple tree with my Hoyt!!


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

fresnohunter said:


> http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379025
> 
> Only comes in Pearl white but guaranteed lighter than the Element.


:thumbs_up


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

Hand torque and shooting form cause far more bows to tune outside than roller guards. Guessing the engineers they employ have a pretty good handle on the concept as well. 

I've found the Hoyt's very accurate and easy to tune. Neither I have/had tuned outside and don't notice my Bowtech with a Flex Guard holding or shooting any better.


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

Predator said:


> Yeah, we've all seen the ad. Now what we need is some real intel.
> 
> If they get rid of the fixed rollers there's a good chance I'll buy one. If not, I'll be buying something else or waiting another year.


If fixed roller guards are the thing keeping you from buying/shooting a Hoyt you're missing out on some fantastic bows. 

I am definitely not an advocate of fixed rollers but they tune and shoot better than any human could. One option you have is to put a PSE flex slide on the Hoyt. I just played with a flex slide on a Spyder 30 and it was a beautiful thing...definitely brought the pins way right and everything lined up down the center. I'm not so sure that it did anything for my accuracy and consistency but I felt that the bow held better and was more forgiving of my bad shots. 

It also looks very clean, like it came from the factory.

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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

Tony219er said:


> I just played with a flex slide on a Spyder 30 and it was a beautiful thing...definitely brought the pins way right and everything lined up down the center. I'm not so sure that it did anything for my accuracy and consistency but I felt that the bow held better and was more forgiving of my bad shots.


A couple of my best friends have recently done this, both on their Vector Turbo's...it's an inexpensive mod that makes a lot of difference.


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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

bbentley392t said:


> A couple of my best friends have recently done this, both on their Vector Turbo's...it's an inexpensive mod that makes a lot of difference.


You just take off the roller guard and the PSE flex slide bolts right to where the roller guard mounts?


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## jesses80 (Apr 17, 2011)

will the pse flex guard work on the carbon hoyts.


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

bowtecha said:


> You just take off the roller guard and the PSE flex slide bolts right to where the roller guard mounts?


There is some slight mill work that needs to be done on the Hoyt riser with a Dremel tool or whatever to make it work, but if done properly it will be covered by the slide and not seen at all...but outside of that there's really not much to it at all. One of my buddies showed me the before & after results he'd documented, and he was able to eliminate ALL of the cam lean and bring his sight housing to the right back to "center". Along with the Vector series, I've also seen this mod done on a Maxxis 35 and Spyder 34.


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

jesses80 said:


> will the pse flex guard work on the carbon hoyts.


Nope, the Element roller-guard is attached to the aluminum bracket that bolts to the riser...and the Matrix roller-guard threads into a stud inside the riser.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

mez said:


> Hand torque and shooting form cause far more bows to tune outside than roller guards. Guessing the engineers they employ have a pretty good handle on the concept as well.
> 
> I've found the Hoyt's very accurate and easy to tune. Neither I have/had tuned outside and don't notice my Bowtech with a Flex Guard holding or shooting any better.


Exactly my Spyders tune exactly the same place as my all my other Hoyts have without the roller guard since 2004. 3/4" to 13/16" from the riser with little to no pre lean on the cams. If you know how to tune a bow and shoot a bow correctly the rollers are a non issue. Crackers tunes all my bows to perfection without any noticeable cam lean. Shane AKA " Ontarget7 " even stated recently that now that he has been tuning the Spyders for awhile they take very little if ANY pre lean to tune correctly. Although a really nice bow I certainly do not shoot my Experience any better than my Spyder 34. Whether the new bows have rollers are not it will not be an issue for me I am sure they will be great bows as usual.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Fellers, Fellers. Let's come back down to earth. 
This time of the year everyone gets all frenzied about the new, about to be released bows that we know nothing about... 
We all hope for a 7in. BH bow that does 345fps, but here's the reality: Hoyt will introduce a bow with 30-34 ATA, 6.75 in. BH, that will IBO at 330 fps... and a few cosmetic changes. 

BTW The Carbon Spyder, is a Spyder with a new carbon fiber paint job. Hehe.


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## Tiggie_00 (Jul 18, 2009)

I want to see a 5" brace 28" Carbon Spyder that does 360+FPS.... SPEED SPEED SPEED.. Compact hunting rig..  YES!


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Tony219er said:


> If fixed roller guards are the thing keeping you from buying/shooting a Hoyt you're missing out on some fantastic bows.
> 
> I am definitely not an advocate of fixed rollers but they tune and shoot better than any human could. One option you have is to put a PSE flex slide on the Hoyt. I just played with a flex slide on a Spyder 30 and it was a beautiful thing...definitely brought the pins way right and everything lined up down the center. I'm not so sure that it did anything for my accuracy and consistency but I felt that the bow held better and was more forgiving of my bad shots.
> 
> ...


It didn't keep me from shooting or buying one, but it did keep me from keeping one. Bought and sold a Spyder Turbo because I hated the fixed rollers.

Nice idea with the flex guard. Did you lose any speed in doing so and, if so, how much?


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

bornagain said:


> Exactly my Spyders tune exactly the same place as my all my other Hoyts have without the roller guard since 2004. 3/4" to 13/16" from the riser with little to no pre lean on the cams. If you know how to tune a bow and shoot a bow correctly the rollers are a non issue. Crackers tunes all my bows to perfection without any noticeable cam lean. Shane AKA " Ontarget7 " even stated recently that now that he has been tuning the Spyders for awhile they take very little if ANY pre lean to tune correctly. Although a really nice bow I certainly do not shoot my Experience any better than my Spyder 34. Whether the new bows have rollers are not it will not be an issue for me I am sure they will be great bows as usual.


I've tuned lots of Hoyts and can tune a Hoyt as well as anyone.

You can tune any Hoyt to a center shot of 12/16-13/16" with enough yoke twisting and related cam lean. And the fact that these bows can be tuned at the same center shot as previous cable slide Hoyts doesn't mean they tune the same. If you think that's true you are smoking some good stuff! The roller guards create a much higher degree of lateral torque - even one of the top Hoyt corporate guys admitted this to me (although it was already quite obvious from my own tuning experience). And anyone that tells you he can tune a roller guard Hoyt with almost no cam lean at brace or full draw is either lying to you or has no clue what he's talking about. It's not even physically possible. 

The negative effect is noticed most during the draw cycle where the nock point is pulled way off to the right causing your arrow to aim way off to the left. Yes, you can get them shooting bullets but they are a directional nightmare. This is why you have to have your sight pins way off to the left to get them on target. With my Spyder Turbo set at 13/16" and shooting bullets through paper (after yolk tuning) the sights needed to be positioned so far left that some production sights wouldn't accommodate it and even top end sights had to be pulled apart and reconfigured to work. The roller guard bows tune (from an aiming point perspective, not center shot position) way left of previous (cable guard) Hoyts and WAY, WAY left of both my DNA and Invasion (which both have flex systems).

Yes, you can tune them but if you think that degree of lateral torque is acceptable well, more power to ya. I find it to be completely unacceptable in today's day and age. And the engineers for most other top bow companies realize this. Heck, I'm quite sure most Hoyt engineers realize this to but whether or not they are willing to do anything about it yet or not remains to be seen.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Not disagreeing with the roller guards... I'm just not sure Hoyt will give up the speed picked up with the rollers...


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

Predator said:


> I've tuned lots of Hoyts and can tune a Hoyt as well as anyone.
> 
> You can tune any Hoyt to a center shot of 12/16-13/16" with enough yoke twisting and related cam lean. And the fact that these bows can be tuned at the same center shot as previous cable slide Hoyts doesn't mean they tune the same. If you think that's true you are smoking some good stuff! The roller guards create a much higher degree of lateral torque - even one of the top Hoyt corporate guys admitted this to me (although it was already quite obvious from my own tuning experience). And anyone that tells you he can tune a roller guard Hoyt with almost no cam lean at brace or full draw is either lying to you or has no clue what he's talking about. It's not even physically possible.
> 
> ...


Well for your information I don't smoke or drink. My sights on all of my roller guard Hoyt's, whether it's my Spyders, Vectors or Maxxis are not way off to the left as you described and there is little to no pre lean. To each is own and no one is lying to anyone maybe some tuners like Crackers and Ontarget7 just know more than you but your to arrogant to admit it. I don't know and I don't care, all I know is my bows shoot great. And BTW before you publicly attack me again like you did in another post. I just wanted to say you are welcome for the advise I gave you earlier this year via PM ( privately ) too bad instead of being grateful you were just a jerk to me when it came to the public forum. Lesson learned, I know what kind of man you are now.


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## hoyt em all (Feb 20, 2005)

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


Luv2shoot3D said:


> I could only wish for a 38 ata carbon bow


same here:thumbs_up


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

bornagain said:


> Well for your information I don't smoke or drink. My sights on all of my roller guard Hoyt's, whether it's my Spyders, Vectors or Maxxis are not way off to the left as you described and there is little to no pre lean. To each is own and no one is lying to anyone maybe some tuners like Crackers and Ontarget7 just know more than you but your to arrogant to admit it. I don't know and I don't care, all I know is my bows shoot great. And BTW before you publicly attack me again like you did in another post. I just wanted to say you are welcome for the advise I gave you earlier this year via PM ( privately ) too bad instead of being grateful you were just a jerk to me when it came to the public forum. Lesson learned, I know what kind of man you are now.


I never attacked you and have no clue what you are talking about. You need to chill out.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Reverend said:


> BTW The Carbon Spyder, is a Spyder with a new carbon fiber paint job. Hehe.


Nooooo... :laugh:



Reverend said:


> Not disagreeing with the roller guards... I'm just not sure Hoyt will give up the speed picked up with the rollers...


My crx 35 shot beautifully and there was no need to mess around with cable slides or suffer cable wear. Nothing wrong with the rollers imo.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

My Element doesn't tune way to the left and I only put a twist and a half in one yoke when tuning. My windage adjustment on my sight changed very little from a CPXL to the Element. It is just about right in the middle, plenty of adjustment both directions.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

mez said:


> My Element doesn't tune way to the left and I only put a twist and a half in one yoke when tuning. My windage adjustment on my sight changed very little from a CPXL to the Element. It is just about right in the middle, plenty of adjustment both directions.


Well you obviously couldn't tune a recorder! Let alone a bow lol


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

mez said:


> My Element doesn't tune way to the left and I only put a twist and a half in one yoke when tuning. My windage adjustment on my sight changed very little from a CPXL to the Element. It is just about right in the middle, plenty of adjustment both directions.


You are fortunate in two respects. One, you have an Element and the negative impact of roller guards isn't nearly as bad on the carbon bows primarily, I believe, because the additional stiffness of the carbon riser serves to mitigate somewhat the lateral torque caused by the roller guards. Second, you must have gotten lucky and got a bow that's on the more ideal side of the allowable tolerances on the bows coming out of Hoyt.

Some of you can dispute this with me all you want but I actually have Hoyt themselves backing me up on this. What, you say? How could that be?

Well, I was so disturbed by the impact of the roller guards that I sent my bow into Hoyt HQ twice. The first time it just went to the warranty dept. They actually swapped out some bearings and did a few things and sent it back saying it was good to go. Same issue existed so I sent it back in and this time got a couple of their top tuning experts to look at it and do a full tune on it. They sent it back and the same issues existed (like I said, no problem to tune it but was shooting out to the left due to the lateral torque). I spent some time on the phone with one of those experts and he told me a couple of things specifically. He told me that this was not at all an uncommon effect of the fixed roller guards as he admitted they cause a lot more lateral torque than a standard cable guard system but that they do generate a little more speed because of the pre-load they generate. He also told me that there is a range of tolerances that each bow must fall within. He did admit that my bow was on the outside (read bad) edge of those tolerances but that it was technically within the allowable tolerances. I don't know how wide of a range of tolerances Hoyt feels are allowable and how that compares to other bow companies (we will never know) but this would explain variances people experience when tuning these fixed roller bows (some will not notice nearly as much of an impact as others).

So, feel free to disagree with me all you want but in doing so you are disagreeing with Hoyt themselves as I have them backing everything I've said. Obviously many seem to not mind the lateral torque Hoyt fixed rollers cause (or in most cases they just don't understand it) but many others do. I personally have a big problem with it and that's a choice I've made. As stated, most other top bow companies have also recognized this issue and addressed it in some manner (PSE, Bowtech, Bear, Prime etc.). I hope Hoyt addresses it this year otherwise I won't be buying one.


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## Armed_AL (Jun 8, 2012)

I prefer a cable slide because I'm old school but I have never had any problem tuning a Hoyt with roller guards to shoot bare shaft and broadheads like a champ. People like to make a problem where there really isn't one, Like cam lean for instance.


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

If you guys are wanting a new bow over 30" ata your outta luck! Ibo still around 330 with 6.75" brace

Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


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## BuckHunter_Kyle (Oct 11, 2012)

My dealer told me the 6 new hoyt bows will be 2 new carbon series bows, 2 new aluminum bows, a speed bow and an economical bow still no names. I'm hoping for a carbon Spyder I have fallen in love with mine lol


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## OCHO505 (May 27, 2010)

I got a speed carbon bow ordered and it's in route I will have one of the first of them so will post pics and speeds soon as it's ready. First Hoyt in a while.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Thats awesome brother.... havent seen this before now




Tony219er said:


> If fixed roller guards are the thing keeping you from buying/shooting a Hoyt you're missing out on some fantastic bows.
> 
> I am definitely not an advocate of fixed rollers but they tune and shoot better than any human could. One option you have is to put a PSE flex slide on the Hoyt. I just played with a flex slide on a Spyder 30 and it was a beautiful thing...definitely brought the pins way right and everything lined up down the center. I'm not so sure that it did anything for my accuracy and consistency but I felt that the bow held better and was more forgiving of my bad shots.
> 
> ...


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## rtharris (Oct 4, 2010)

30 inch ata carbon


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## huntertroy (Feb 16, 2010)

Viper69 said:


> If you guys are wanting a new bow over 30" ata your outta luck! Ibo still around 330 with 6.75" brace
> 
> Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


I really hope your wrong but then again it will save me alot of money. No way will I part with my matrix for a 30" ATA


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

huntertroy said:


> I really hope your wrong but then again it will save me alot of money. No way will I part with my matrix for a 30" ATA


I've been wrong before but not this time

Sent from my couch!


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## huntertroy (Feb 16, 2010)

Viper69 said:


> I've been wrong before but not this time
> 
> Sent from my couch!


Do you think they will no longer offer a 35" carbon bow at all?


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

Not positive but I was told the element was gone


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## bmanning (May 21, 2012)

Talked with someone in the know yesterday that stated that the 2014 Carbon Element will have a 30" ATA with a redesigned riser...similar in size to the current Sypder.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Posted this earlier. The Info I got was carbon spyder (don't know if that is name), and element gone and there will Not be a carbon ahoot through and no plans for one right now.


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

Yes the new carbon bow is 30" ata and 6.75" brace


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## Hoyt407 (Aug 25, 2005)

No problem on 2 Carbon Elements 2012, 2013, and Spyder Turbo's Cable roller system! All tuned great, and been shot alot!


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## MR 28 (Jun 25, 2010)

I have the opportunity to buy a 2013 Matrix G3 that I want to get for 3D. Do you guys think there will be a "new" replacement for the matrix as far as carbon and longer ATA or just order the matrix before they stop the production? My DL is short (26.5) so may be hard to find a used one in camo etc that I want. Only bad thing about not knowing is if you dont like what comes out you cant back-track and order last years unless one sitting on the shelf 

I have a 2012 Element RKT and a 2013 Spyder 30 so dont need another bow in that 30-33 range.


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## Kris87 (Sep 12, 2003)

I too was hoping for a longer ATA carbon bow. Already have an Element and Matrix. I want a 34" carbon bow with Spyder Turbo specs and the updated RKT's. That would be the one stop shop hunting and 3D bow IMO.


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

no spyder 35+ ATA? damn


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## BeastofEast (Sep 19, 2011)

at 30" that sucker gotta be super light! now will bowtech step up with the carbon experience?


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## MR 28 (Jun 25, 2010)

Do you think they will make another Matrix? Heard only two new carbons-both 30 ATA.


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

MR 28 said:


> Do you think they will make another Matrix? Heard only two new carbons-both 30 ATA.


I don't think there is two carbon bows at 30" ata just one and one aluminum


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## MR 28 (Jun 25, 2010)

If you had to guess...would you say the matrix stays?


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## djmaxwe (Nov 27, 2005)

I heard 1 new Carbon 30" and one new 30" aluminum bow and I bet Im right


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## huntertroy (Feb 16, 2010)

MR 28 said:


> Do you think they will make another Matrix? Heard only two new carbons-both 30 ATA.


it would be a sin if they don't make a replacement for the matrix


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## ocn (Sep 17, 2006)

all fired up about what will be coming out this month!!!


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

Reverend said:


> Not disagreeing with the roller guards... I'm just not sure Hoyt will give up the speed picked up with the rollers...


Been thinking about your post for a while....

Unless I'm wrong about this: 70 lbs. is 70 lbs... ~ They just engineer & build the bows with "roller guard lateral tension" as part of the total poundage. And when you don't have this "lateral torque", both the "forgiveness" is enhanced, and so is the draw curve.... Right?

I was told years ago that: If you were to replace a roller system with a cable slide (on a pre-existing bow that has a factory "fixed roller" system), the overall poundage of any given bow (with the factory limbs) decreases. ~ And that the same thing goes for swapping out a "fixed roller" with a "flexible roller."


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Kris87 said:


> I too was hoping for a longer ATA carbon bow. Already have an Element and Matrix. I want a 34" carbon bow with Spyder Turbo specs and the updated RKT's. That would be the one stop shop hunting and 3D bow IMO.


:thumbs_up

Bit longer would be nice too.



ghostgoblin22 said:


> no spyder 35+ ATA? damn


X2.


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## Krash (May 29, 2012)

Onlything that I am afraid of with all these carbon bows coming out is that eventually these companies will go for more of a profit margin and have all there risers made in Asia. That is exaclty what happened to all the American made cycling companies. I hope I am way off on thisr


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Krash said:


> Onlything that I am afraid of with all these carbon bows coming out is that eventually these companies will go for more of a profit margin and have all there risers made in Asia. That is exaclty what happened to all the American made cycling companies. I hope I am way off on thisr


Not with the amount of carbon Hoyt/Easton already produces. They have the permits, the have the technology.... Only government can screw that up now. 




Sent from my Verizon iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NTProf (Jun 12, 2008)

Nice to see that this thread got back on track, after being derailed around the issue of roller guards by someone.


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## Mallardbreath (Dec 7, 2007)

Sheesh! What is all the infatuation with 30" ATA bows? Anything under 33" really doesn't do it for me I guess. I was hoping to get me a new Element next year. Now I guess I'll maybe have to buy a used one.


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## jspecracer (Oct 11, 2010)

Krash said:


> Onlything that I am afraid of with all these carbon bows coming out is that eventually these companies will go for more of a profit margin and have all there risers made in Asia. That is exaclty what happened to all the American made cycling companies. I hope I am way off on thisr


The Hoyt carbon risers have been manufactured in France since they originated. They are then shipped to the US and assembled in the Hoyt factory in Utah.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

jspecracer said:


> The Hoyt carbon risers have been manufactured in France since they originated. They are then shipped to the US and assembled in the Hoyt factory in Utah.



Wrong !!! Made right here in the USA. Hoyt worked with another company well known on the carbon fiber industry just one state north of them in Wyoming.


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## sean1 (Dec 5, 2009)

I was told by a tech that went to hoyt the carbon risers were made in Germany. Just what I was told


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

The carbon risers are a product of "Prince Sports", check out the decal on the bottom pocket of any Matrix & Element...you'll see their name. Prince is famous for producing hollow carbon fiber tennis rackets. Now, does this mean Prince actually builds these risers, I can't say for certain...but they definitely have their hand in the process. As far as where the risers are manufactured, I was told the UK...but I've also heard they're constructed at Prince's US headquarters in New Jersey. It's really hard to speculate, and that's all any of our opinions are.


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## Tiggie_00 (Jul 18, 2009)

Made in China... Saw your carbon bows in half and they are filled with rice.. LOL


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## ego260 (Dec 26, 2011)

My guess is there will be a longer ata bow this year to sit with the 30", but it will be 34" ata and a 6" brace height for a carbon speed bow.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

Mallardbreath said:


> Sheesh! What is all the infatuation with 30" ATA bows? Anything under 33" really doesn't do it for me I guess. I was hoping to get me a new Element next year. Now I guess I'll maybe have to buy a used one.


No, buy one of last years stock at a greatly reduced price when these new ones come out.


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## Rikcey (Jul 23, 2012)

Why is everyone hoping for a carbon spyder?
Ever compared newer Hoyts? my 2010 Matrix is geometrically the same as the vector 35. With that said, same goes for the Spyder. All you want is a Matrix with a shortened cable system, (hence the 1" ata difference) that results in the 3!!!!! fps by just more preload.

Don't get me wrong, but they have to come with a longer ata carbon target bow (Double duty!!) with an open shelf to get me stoked. And for those wanting a Carbon elite, That's probably not gonna happen because it's not needed. Slowmo shows less flex in the carbon riser compared to the Aluminium elite bows.

I still love my 1st Gen Matrix.


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## BuckHunter_Kyle (Oct 11, 2012)

Well here it is guys the "carbon Spyder" and the new 2014 "Factor"


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## Highwaygun (Jun 29, 2011)

It might just be me but that carbon spyder is a ugly sucker. I know that doesn't matter but dam that things ugly.


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## BuckHunter_Kyle (Oct 11, 2012)

Highwaygun said:


> It might just be me but that carbon spyder is a ugly sucker. I know that doesn't matter but dam that things ugly.


Agreed but I do like the factor it looks sweet!


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## axe6shooter (Oct 7, 2012)

Agreed I think I'll give it a try though faktor turbo may be me ;-)


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## mccoppinb (Aug 14, 2012)

im ordering either a black matrix, carbon spyder or faktor within the next day or so


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## BuckHunter_Kyle (Oct 11, 2012)

mccoppinb said:


> im ordering either a black matrix, carbon spyder or faktor within the next day or so


They aren't making the matrix this year are they?


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

That first bow looks pretty cool.


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## bbentley392t (Aug 14, 2007)

BuckHunter_Kyle said:


> They aren't making the matrix this year are they?


Matrix & Element...GONE.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

The other bow just looks like a spyder with some vibration stuff in the riser.


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## BuckHunter_Kyle (Oct 11, 2012)

I HAVE to try this one!


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

I see 30" a to a on that faktor. Won't be going that route.


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## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

Q2DEATH said:


> I see 30" a to a on that faktor. Won't be going that route.


There is a 33" Turbo and 34" as well!


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## tescobedo (Sep 13, 2009)

Q2DEATH said:


> I see 30" a to a on that faktor. Won't be going that route.


The Faktor comes in a 34" ATA.


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

I like the new carbon riser better than the old one. Otherwise, the line up is pretty much the same as last year. So far, no manufacturer has really offered something new and ground-breaking, but I'm sure they are shooters.


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## Bigjohn141 (Sep 5, 2013)

Seeing how I just bought a spyder this year, I doubt I will get a Carbon or Faktor unless those cams are just super buttery smooth.


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## BuckHunter_Kyle (Oct 11, 2012)

Bigjohn141 said:


> Seeing how I just bought a spyder this year, I doubt I will get a Carbon or Faktor unless those cams are just super buttery smooth.


I'll try the factor at my local shop and see if I like it better than my Spyder but I do like the factor pretty good


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## Bigjohn141 (Sep 5, 2013)

Be sure and post up the difference in the draw cycle between the RKT and the Z5.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

tescobedo said:


> The Faktor comes in a 34" ATA.




Now we're talking.


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## Blazinpond (Sep 16, 2008)

Viper69 said:


> If you guys are wanting a new bow over 30" ata your outta luck! Ibo still around 330 with 6.75" brace
> 
> Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4





Viper69 said:


> I've been wrong before but not this time
> 
> Sent from my couch!



oooooops :wink:


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

Blazinpond said:


> oooooops :wink:


Only posted the specs we were sent.


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## Protech_85 (Jun 17, 2011)

I couldn't pass the carbon spyder up, ordered mine today, or rather told my local shop that I wanted the first blackout carbon spyder they get, which may be December or a little sooner. The riser is different but it was growing on me. I like the idea of a new cam, even though the RKT was awesome. I like how Hoyt is going to more aggressive geometries on their cam systems, as well as staying in the carbon market. If it draws like my spyder, or better, I know I will be selling a blackout spyder 30 on here around December


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## ego260 (Dec 26, 2011)

is it just me or does it look like the new carbon spyders wont have such a hard time finding a rest to fit the bow securely. It looks to me like they removed that stupid angled metal piece from the riser by the bow shelf were the rest would attach. Thank god if they did.


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## mdjohnso2137 (Aug 30, 2012)

*Cost?*



Protech_85 said:


> I couldn't pass the carbon spyder up, ordered mine today, or rather told my local shop that I wanted the first blackout carbon spyder they get, which may be December or a little sooner. The riser is different but it was growing on me. I like the idea of a new cam, even though the RKT was awesome. I like how Hoyt is going to more aggressive geometries on their cam systems, as well as staying in the carbon market. If it draws like my spyder, or better, I know I will be selling a blackout spyder 30 on here around December


Did they have any Idea what it will run? Im wondering how it will compete with bowtechs carbon bows.


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## axe6shooter (Oct 7, 2012)

I just talked with my dealer here in NC and they're gonna run $1,300 little crazy if u ask me


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

IMO there are worse things to 'waste' money on. I'm waiting to see the camo options up close, never saw the Max1 on a carbon bow. But for the first time the blackout version has really caught my eye...
I was very impressed with the videos I saw on the Turbo, it sure appears smooth, dead and quiet.


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## Jwillman6 (Jun 4, 2007)

I do not think it is ugly at all. I like it better than the other carbon models. I'm not in the market for a bow, but if I were I would be more interested in the Factor Turbo simply because of price. The only downside to this bow would be the price, I think they look good... no they look great.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

I can't wait to shoot the carbon turbo ... If it draws the way it looks on the videos I will have one


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## archerykid13 (Aug 11, 2009)

My dealer is selling the Carbon Spyder Turbo for $1250. Looks like I'm buying a new bow!!!


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## Beentown (May 14, 2006)

$1249


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

Beentown said:


> $1249


Much better than the 1500


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

bambikiller said:


> Much better than the 1500


Yes


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## Piedro (Aug 8, 2012)

Finland that bow cost 1500$ (1150€) i order it yesterday.
Sent From Nokia Lumia 820 Phone.


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## monaro (Oct 25, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMvprB-qycg
ordered mine today


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