# Changing during the day?



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I am really looking forward to hearing how other shooters combat this during a long day of shooting so post up and if you are new to the forum and need to see the safety slack article I will get it to you.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

By the way I am posting this because last night it happened to me two times during my 2 hour shooting session because I hadn't shot for 5 days and really wasn't shooting that strong because things just felt funny taking that long of a break. I was hitting pretty good dead on but I know the difference between when I am really good and just decent and I was just having a decent day but I did have to do this a couple of times to help the session proceed smoothly.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

This is an excellent topic and one of the reasons I developed the style I use. I want to be able to adapt to the situation rather than expect the conditions to be consistent. This is also why a dislike the concepts of shot timing, muscle memory, and finding the "perfect" hinge speed. Knowing how the game is affected in the beginning, middle, and end, is very helpful.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't know, Padgett. I shot Field in drop dead heat and drenching humidity and felt I changed whether over time or fatigue. Years ago, me younger (56), the IAA Field/Hunter Two Day Championship was all that, hot and humid. Just walking to our assigned targets had us dripping wet. Figure what practice shots before the start each day, 4 practice shot started each day and then 112 shots for the course. For me, I practiced just enough to tell if I was on, maybe a half dozen shots. So 122 shots per day, 244 shots total. My Field bow was at the factory (failed limp pocket) so I used my 3D bow, 62 pounds. Down 2 points to the Senior Free Style Champion. 

Still, using one of those bicycle machines for your arms. I used one back during therapy. Two minutes one way and two minutes the other way gave a nice work out for shoulders and back. Ordering one when surgeon and therapist gives the okay. The one at the hospital had 5 settings and a digital read out (expensive). I had worked up to #4 and cranking 75%. Said good for my age with shoulder banged up. Wore me down, but felt great. And think for a second shoulder muscles aren't used for drawing a bow. Look up the shoulder. Bicep, scapula and shoulder are all tied in there one way or another. Rotor cuff surgery, laying on your back will have your blade ouching. Yeah, you sit up or barely reclining enable to get some sleep.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

cbrunson, I really like discussing thing with you because unless you are completely fooling me you are a solid shooter. For example when you mention that you don't like phrases like "perfect hinge speed", because to me that allows for really good discussion of what I am referring to when using that phrase.

To me perfect hinge speed is when I find a hinge setting that compliments my shooting in a positive way, it isn't the fastest or slowest setting possible. It is the setting that allows me to perform at my highest level on a variety of days when I am feeling really good and really bad. My current hinge setting is a really good one because it is in the middle of what I consider to be my most common body feelings when I am shooting. 

In the past I would set up my hinge until I was shooting really good that day and then spend the next few weeks suffering because I would refuse to change it because that one day I was shooting awesome and I wanted to leave it right there. What I wasn't realizing was that I may have been tired or tight or loose or something weird and I was setting my hinge to that particular feel that individual day. Well, I don't feel the exact same each and every day so then the suffering would begin.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

SonnyThomas said:


> I don't know, Padgett. I shot Field in drop dead heat and drenching humidity and *never* felt I changed whether over time or fatigue. Years ago, me younger (56), the IAA Field/Hunter Two Day Championship was all that, hot and humid. Just walking to our assigned targets had us dripping wet. Figure what practice shots before the start each day, 4 practice shot started each day and then 112 shots for the course. For me, I practiced just enough to tell if I was on, maybe a half dozen shots. So 122 shots per day, 244 shots total. My Field bow was at the factory (failed limp pocket) so I used my 3D bow, 62 pounds. Down 2 points to the Senior Free Style Champion.
> 
> Still, using one of those bicycle machines for your arms. I used one back during therapy. Two minutes one way and two minutes the other way gave a nice work out for shoulders and back. Ordering one when surgeon and therapist gives the okay. The one at the hospital had 5 settings and a digital read out (expensive). I had worked up to #4 and cranking 75%. Said good for my age with shoulder banged up. Wore me down, but felt great. And think for a second shoulder muscles aren't used for drawing a bow. Look up the shoulder. Bicep, scapula and shoulder are all tied in there one way or another. Rotor cuff surgery, laying on your back will have your blade ouching. Yeah, you sit up or barely reclining enable to get some sleep.


Bold - correction


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Padgett said:


> cbrunson, I really like discussing thing with you because unless you are completely fooling me you are a solid shooter. For example when you mention that you don't like phrases like "perfect hinge speed", because to me that allows for really good discussion of what I am referring to when using that phrase.
> 
> To me perfect hinge speed is when I find a hinge setting that compliments my shooting in a positive way, it isn't the fastest or slowest setting possible. It is the setting that allows me to perform at my highest level on a variety of days when I am feeling really good and really bad. My current hinge setting is a really good one because it is in the middle of what I consider to be my most common body feelings when I am shooting.
> 
> In the past I would set up my hinge until I was shooting really good that day and then spend the next few weeks suffering because I would refuse to change it because that one day I was shooting awesome and I wanted to leave it right there. What I wasn't realizing was that I may have been tired or tight or loose or something weird and I was setting my hinge to that particular feel that individual day. Well, I don't feel the exact same each and every day so then the suffering would begin.


That's precisely what I'm talking about. It would be fantastic if you could find that precise setting that works 100% of the time, but I don't think it exists for me. 

Getting to the point where you are not affraid to adjust things to fit the conditions at hand, is a major milestone in my opinion.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

If having to change, ease of adjustment could take the pressure off. But then, would you what adjustment? Said was Randy Ulmer and someone else carrying bag of releases. They have them numbered or picked one at random to keep them....aware of "Hey, pay attention?"

When I first used a hinge setting the moon was royal pain in the butt. Stanislawski came along with the simple tweak of a allen wrench to move the sears tiny bits. Their thumb releases, like the Shootoff, only a tweak of the allen wrench needed for lighter or heavier firing of the release.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

cbrunson said:


> That's precisely what I'm talking about. It would be fantastic if you could find that precise setting that works 100% of the time, but I don't think it exists for me.
> 
> Getting to the point where you are not affraid to adjust things to fit the conditions at hand, is a major milestone in my opinion.


I find that changing settings is a short term fix for some (negative) issue in the process. One that especially in the case of setting a release hotter when you're accustomed to a colder setting can have a high cost in a prematurely fired arrow. 

My question to those of you who toy with your settings would be this; how many arrows does it take for your brain to revert back to the process [window that the arrow fires in] that existed when it was on the previous setting?


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

If you're just starting to get a feel for things as a noob, I'd definitely not get in the habit of changing things constantly. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about those days when maybe your release feels a little slow or fast, making a very small adjustment. Or even throwing an oz or two on your bars to compensate for a stronger than usual bow arm that day. 

I have seen some of the best shooters twisting strings right before shooting (and winning) a tournament. It's about knowing what feels right and getting it as close as possible. I would agree that you need to be at a high level of experience or you just become a tinkerer. 

To answer your question Laz, if you are changing release speed for the purpose of keeping a surprise shot, it doesn't matter how long it takes before you start to anticipate it going off. When you start to recognize it happening, change it again. 

I personally don't change it for that reason. I change it if it feels slow or fast that day.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

cbrunson said:


> If you're just starting to get a feel for things as a noob, I'd definitely not get in the habit of changing things constantly. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about those days when maybe your release feels a little slow or fast, making a very small adjustment. Or even throwing an oz or two on your bars to compensate for a stronger than usual bow arm that day.
> 
> I have seen some of the best shooters twisting strings right before shooting (and winning) a tournament. It's about knowing what feels right and getting it as close as possible. I would agree that you need to be at a high level of experience or you just become a tinkerer.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting and timely (haha) discussion. On Tuesday I was shooting and my hinge seemed white hot. I couldn't believe how fast it was going off. I haven't changed the setting on this thing for over a year now (it's relatively very cold - most folks hate my hinge). Then on Wednesday it was the polar opposite. Slow as molasses to where I had a lot more let downs than I usually have. 

I've always been of the Lazarus mindset that there was/is something fundamentally wrong with me on both days - it's up to me to figure out what I was doing differently. However, I also see your point. Lots to consider...


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Ned250 said:


> This is an interesting and timely (haha) discussion. On Tuesday I was shooting and my hinge seemed white hot. I couldn't believe how fast it was going off. I haven't changed the setting on this thing for over a year now (it's relatively very cold - most folks hate my hinge). Then on Wednesday it was the polar opposite. Slow as molasses to where I had a lot more let downs than I usually have.
> 
> I've always been of the Lazarus mindset that there was/is something fundamentally wrong with me on both days - it's up to me to figure out what I was doing differently. However, I also see your point. Lots to consider...


The point is simply that Padgett is exactly right in saying that your body is different from day to day, or even at certain times of the day. There may be a stronger argument for leaving things alone and trying to get your body/mind back in tune with your equipment, but a little tweak here or there may be the difference between settling in better and picking up a few more points, or fighting it all day long.

I would caution people not to get caught up in the constant change cycle though. It’s more a very slight adjustment or tweak, to compensate for minor differences in feel of the shot. You definitely need to have a very solid shot ingrained to recognize it, and confidence to make those little adjustments. 

It’s no different than adding a couple clicks left or right, or changing your aperture for lighting conditions.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

It's all about the process. Change the process- change the results. 

Refine the process. Perfect it. Don't change it. 

Starting in the blank bale is the best thing you can do.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

cbrunson said:


> I personally don't change it for that reason. I change it if it feels slow or fast that day.


Got it. :thumbs_up

The reason I asked the question was this, well, first, I don't have any problem changing speeds, it's not an issue. But here's my experience, when you change speeds no matter what, your brain adapts to the change within (for me) 20-30 shots and I'm right back where I was before. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I'm just saying for me the discussion of speeds and changing them is irrelevant. I asked because it doesn't appear everyone's experience mirrors mine. 

For me, I believe every day is about the same. I can make some good shots early but they normally don't really flow, I have to work at it. Somewhere around 20 arrows I'll get into a groove that allows me to really flow. The only variable for me is energy level. Some day's I can shoot 200 and maintain that flow. Some days I begin to tire around 100. Said a different way, my "variable" has nothing to do with hinge speed I don't think. 

Interesting discussion.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I would believe a solid pre shoot routine ( warm up/stretching ) would reduce the number and severity of days where the hinge felt fast/slow.


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## MPKO (Sep 18, 2014)

not an abvanved shooter, but have been competing all my life in various sports. If you feel tired and you can't keep your form you need to exercise more. it is so simple and i don't mean just shooting arrows.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

MPKO said:


> not an abvanved shooter, but have been competing all my life in various sports. If you feel tired and you can't keep your form you need to exercise more. it is so simple and i don't mean just shooting arrows.


Archery is a lazy man's sport. We want the best possible results from the least amount of effort. :lol:


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## LadyBowhunter12 (Jul 2, 2014)

Good stuff!


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