# How to Increase FOC



## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Butcher said:


> I'm thinking about buying some ACC 3-49s for this year. I shoot an A7 at about 29.75" and 58 lbs. I'm pretty new to arrow software, but even with 100 grain points I can't seem to come up with a foc higher than about 10%. Any advice or thoughts about foc in the 8 to 10 range for field?


I've shot ACCs at about 9% before and actually shot some of my best scores that way. You can get away with a bit less FOC with the AC arrows vs an all carbon (and even less with an Aluminum). I don't get the physics of that, but they should group fine. Besides FOC should never be a show stopper...Its like 15th on the list of importance... 

What are you planning on using for vanes and nocks? Small changes there could alter your FOC pretty significantly...


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

I would increase FOC by shooting a 110 or even 120 grain point and leave at least 2 inches in front of the arrow rest. That would build in accuracy in your setup for field. You can also lighten the tail of the arrow to increase your FOC.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

3 ways to increase FOC
1. more weight in the point
2. less weight in the back
3. shorten the shaft length.

If you went to a slightly heavier point, cut 1/2 inch off the shaft, anf used lighter vanes you could easily increase your FOC by 3-5%


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

BOWGOD said:


> 3 ways to increase FOC
> 1. more weight in the point
> 2. less weight in the back
> 3. shorten the shaft length.
> ...


:nod: But why bother...??? Those arrows are going to shoot fine just as they are...


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## Butcher (Jun 8, 2005)

psargeant said:


> I've shot ACCs at about 9% before and actually shot some of my best scores that way. You can get away with a bit less FOC with the AC arrows vs an all carbon (and even less with an Aluminum). I don't get the physics of that, but they should group fine. Besides FOC should never be a show stopper...Its like 15th on the list of importance...
> 
> What are you planning on using for vanes and nocks? Small changes there could alter your FOC pretty significantly...


I was thinking about using Flex Fletch 187s and the standard G nocks.

With regard to the tip weight, it seems like 100 grains is the heaviest offered by Easton. Am I wrong on this?

Thanks.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Butcher said:


> I was thinking about using Flex Fletch 187s and the standard G nocks.
> 
> With regard to the tip weight, it seems like 100 grains is the heaviest offered by Easton. Am I wrong on this?
> 
> Thanks.


Well you're not going to be able to save much back end weight that way then...(FF187s and g-nocks are the way to go BTW)

100 grains is the heaviest I have seen for them too...you could go with inserts and screw in points if you felt like you had to have more FOC...but I still think you'd be wasting your time. put 100 grains in the nose, cut them to get the spine reaction right and let 'em eat...


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

psargeant said:


> :nod: But why bother...??? Those arrows are going to shoot fine just as they are...


Well I don't have any experience with the A/C/C's so I can't comment on how they would fly. I was just answering the initial question of what could be done to increase the FOC.
Even if they do fly well at 10% wouldn't you think they might group better at say 13 or 14% Just because they fly well at a low FOC doesn't necessarily mean that is the best FOC for them. I have shot regular carbons at 9%, and they shot well, but my long range groups are noticeably different at 15%.

As for heavier points CDM makes an adjustable weight point for the 3-49 shafts that you could make weigh anywhere from 70-130 grains. Might be worth while to buy those, and some weights to play around and see what weight gives you the best results. Proven results will take you much further than archerytalk opinions just about everytime:wink:


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

BOWGOD said:


> Well I don't have any experience with the A/C/C's so I can't comment on how they would fly. I was just answering the initial question of what could be done to increase the FOC.
> Even if they do fly well at 10% wouldn't you think they might group better at say 13 or 14% Just because they fly well at a low FOC doesn't necessarily mean that is the best FOC for them. *I have shot regular carbons at 9%, and they shot well, but my long range groups are noticeably different at 15%.*
> 
> As for heavier points CDM makes an adjustable weight point for the 3-49 shafts that you could make weigh anywhere from 70-130 grains. Might be worth while to buy those, and some weights to play around and see what weight gives you the best results. Proven results will take you much further than archerytalk opinions just about everytime:wink:


Carbons are a different story, I already said that....if they grouped noticeably better, its not because of FOC though...more likely the spine reaction was better with the heavier point...

Remember that back in the day of Aluminums people were posting big Field round scores with FOCs around 5-7%... Like I said before and will say again...FOC is at best 15th on the list of things to be concerned about. 

I shot some great scores outdoors with CT Hippos (all carbon) with 70 grain points and around 7.5% FOC...


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

psargeant said:


> Carbons are a different story, I already said that....if they grouped noticeably better, its not because of FOC though...more likely the spine reaction was better with the heavier point...
> 
> Remember that back in the day of Aluminums people were posting big Field round scores with FOCs around 5-7%... Like I said before and will say again...FOC is at best 15th on the list of things to be concerned about.
> 
> I shot some great scores outdoors with CT Hippos (all carbon) with 70 grain points and around 7.5% FOC...


I'm not going to argue with you about it, I was simply giving advice on the questions asked, not discounting or agreeing with what you said.

I think we can both agree when setting up arrows it's best to play with several different combinations to find the arrow that is going to give the best groups for you, and your bow before settling on 1 specific arrow/point weight/foc/ect...... I went through 4 different arrow/point combinations last year before I found the set up that gave me everything that I wanted. In the overall picture FOC is probably even lower than 15th, but in the smaller picture of getting the arrows right I put FOC up near the top. Only thing I find more important than FOC when building, and setting up arrows is getting the spine right. Even then if I can't get a good FOC, and keep my spine good I'll go to a different shaft that will allow me to get both where I like them. I preffer my FOC to be in the 14-15% range. But all I shoot is straight carbon so I do not know what or if there is a different sweet spot using aluminum/carbon arrows like the A/C/C


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Easy way to increase FOC are the two obvious ways.... More point weight and or shorter arrows. 

Why do you THINK you need more F0C though? :noidea: 

There are 4 shots a day over 60 yds on a field round getting more F0C for better long range shooting isn't worth the effort. I would worry more about spine then F0C in your case. 

ACCs like Sarge said don't react like an all carbon shaft....and don't need a 14% FOC to shoot well....some of the best shooting ACCs I shot were 3-28s with 82 or 87 grain points....3-39s with 100s but with 110s they didn't shoot as well...and 3-49s with 100 grain points.... 


Too many guys are worried about "what the computer says"....get it close...then step away from TAP, OT2 or AA and shoot them. Adjust from there....but no just because your FOC is higher doesn't mean the arrow is going to be "better" for your setup....and just because the FOC is higher it doesn't mean they are gonna group better....they could group worse. 

Bowgod yours probably grouped better because they were spined better....heck my MK2s and ACEs had a lower F0C then your arrows and they shot great at distance.....my Nano's don't have over a 14% FOC and they shoot great at 60+...actually the best shooting arrow I have ever shot at those distances. 

like Sarge said some of the best shooting arrows I ever shot in the 60-90m range were actually Hippos also....mine had 80 grain points in them.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

BOWGOD said:


> I'm not going to argue with you about it, I was simply giving advice on the questions asked, not discounting or agreeing with what you said.
> 
> I think we can both agree when setting up arrows it's best to play with several different combinations to find the arrow that is going to give the best groups for you, and your bow before settling on 1 specific arrow/point weight/foc/ect...... I went through 4 different arrow/point combinations last year before I found the set up that gave me everything that I wanted. In the overall picture FOC is probably even lower than 15th, but in the smaller picture of getting the arrows right I put FOC up near the top. Only thing I find more important than FOC when building, and setting up arrows is getting the spine right. Even then if I can't get a good FOC, and keep my spine good I'll go to a different shaft that will allow me to get both where I like them. I preffer my FOC to be in the 14-15% range. But all I shoot is straight carbon so I do not know what or if there is a different sweet spot using aluminum/carbon arrows like the A/C/C


FOC is not something I will change my arrow selection over period...I do want a good weight point, so I'm not going down to 50 grain points, (Minimum 80 grains.) which ends up resulting in good FOC usually. You're problem with those Nano force arrows wasn't FOC, it was a combination of a .500 being to stiff, and the shaft being too light. Too light an arrow creates all kinds of problems from wind drift to "parachuting" at distance...Adding more point weight fixes both of those problems, but its not because of FOC, its because of arrow weight, FOC was just a consequence...



Brown Hornet said:


> Easy way to increase FOC are the two obvious ways.... More point weight and or shorter arrows.
> 
> Why do you THINK you need more F0C though? :noidea:
> 
> ...


3-28 Accs with 87 grain points---8.87% FOC and flat out Shooting...

The Nanos that are on their way to you liked the lighter points with Less FOC than what's in them now...Same thing with the Hippos which is really odd. They are over spined, and under FOC'ed, but shoot better that way then with weight added to get FOC and better spine match...


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

psargeant said:


> FOC is not something I will change my arrow selection over period...I do want a good weight point, so I'm not going down to 50 grain points, (Minimum 80 grains.) which ends up resulting in good FOC usually. You're problem with those Nano force arrows wasn't FOC, it was a combination of a .500 being to stiff, and the shaft being too light. Too light an arrow creates all kinds of problems from wind drift to "parachuting" at distance...Adding more point weight fixes both of those problems, but its not because of FOC, its because of arrow weight, FOC was just a consequence...



The arrows I was talking about wasn't the nanoforce they were different arrows for a different game. 

But to each his own. I've always been anal about building perfect arrows, not saying that I'm not reading too much into it because I probably am. It's just what I have always done. I'm not big on building a bow to fit the arrow so I don't set up a bow then play with poundage, and draw length to get the best performance out of my arrow. I build the bow to feel the way I want it to feel then I spend a few days playing with arrow combinations to find the arrow that best fits the bow. Up until switching to the nano's I usually used either pdp or cdm points so I could play with various point weights rather easily before I started cutting away at carbon.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

*just a thought*

Easton designed the arrows and points to match. Try the 100's.


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## bowhunter_va_28 (Apr 28, 2003)

I happened to be reading the Easton tuning guide today and saw this. Easton say's your on the money.

Easton's F.O.C. Recommendations
Aluminum Target Arrows 7-9 %
A/C/C Target Arrows 9-11 %
A/C/E Target Arrows 11-16 %
Hunting Arrows 10-15 %


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## Butcher (Jun 8, 2005)

TNMAN said:


> Easton designed the arrows and points to match. Try the 100's.


I think I will just do that. Was just a bit surprised that none of the configurations that "spined out" on On Target showed a FOC much over 10%...may have been misinformed on what the preferred FOC is for those arrows. I know it just comes down to shooting them, but I want to get to a good starting point. Thanks.


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