# Which is faster a Long Bow or a Recurve Bow?



## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Typically the Recurve will store more energy and release it slightly more efficiently. R/D Longbows have reduced the gap between the two.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Are you talking about selfbows or fiberglass laminated bows?

With selfbows, recurves lose. There are only a few bowyers who can make recurves that shoot faster. 

With lamianted fiberglass bows, a static recurve is about the fastest you can get. R/D or hybrid bows can get pretty darn close to a working recurve's performance. Straight or only slight R/D bows are slower.


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## Pikkuhannu (Apr 3, 2009)

My R/D longbow is much much faster than recurve.
Lb is 67#, but i have shorter draw than 60# rc, so i guess #`s are almost same.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

ToddRvs said:


> Given the same draw weight, same draw length, same arrow weight, which bow would shoot a faster arrow. I ask this question because I am building a new bow and I am deciding between a recurve and long bow.
> 
> My last long bow was 66 inches long and when it was strung had a length of 63 inches, Brace height was 6 1/4 inches rated at 41.6 pounds at 28 inches ( I actually draw 29 1/2 inches so at my actual draw length the bow was drawing 47 pounds) I was using a 467 grain arrow and through a chronograph set 10 feet in front of the bow I recorded a very respectable arrow speed of 183 FPS.
> 
> Can I expect the same or better from a recurve with the same draw and draw weight. Also does backing a bow actually increase it's speed or just it's strength.


My recurves are definitely faster than my longbows, even at much reduced weight they're faster. When it comes to recurved almost flatbow longbows, like the Martin Viper and the 21st Century Nova, the speeds get to be much closer together but I'm still shooting somewhat faster with my recurves.

Now, I'm not an engineer, but I think that the shorter limb, even though pulling the same weight, stores it better than a one piece.... Don't know this, just speculating... but I will say this, newer style hybrid longbows are fast, sweet, and a blast to shoot.

Much Aloha... :beer:


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

rattus58 said:


> My recurves are definitely faster than my longbows, even at much reduced weight they're faster. When it comes to recurved almost flatbow longbows, like the Martin Viper and the 21st Century Nova, the speeds get to be much closer together but I'm still shooting somewhat faster with my recurves.
> 
> Now, I'm not an engineer, but I think that the shorter limb, even though pulling the same weight, stores it better than a one piece.... Don't know this, just speculating... but I will say this, newer style hybrid longbows are fast, sweet, and a blast to shoot.
> 
> Much Aloha... :beer:


The extra bend (teh recurves themselves) store more energy, but the shorter limbs lower the inertia and mass, raising the mechanical efficiency:thumbs_up.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Thank you! You've cleared up a nag I've had about this... 

Much Aloha... Tom :beer:


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

kegan said:


> The extra bend (teh recurves themselves) store more energy, but the shorter limbs lower the inertia and mass, raising the mechanical efficiency:thumbs_up.


It is also that the limbs provide variable geometry throughout the draw cycle as the string "unwinds" off the recurve. Once the string lifts off the recurve portion of the limb, the draw force is similar to a long bow, as Sid of Border Bows likes to point out.


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## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

I know I am going to catch a lot of flak for saying this, but I am of the opinion accepted by many that a recurve is _typically_ faster than a regular longbow (not including any of the more R/D designs here), but a regular longbow will typically shoot a _heavier arrow_ better:behindsof


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Matched as equally with specs and gear as can be be done, I would have to see a controlled demonstration that would convince me that overall a longbow generates more used energy and generally throws arrows "faster" than a recurve bow.


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## BowmanJay (Jan 1, 2007)

I chrony'ed my R/D #50 LB last year against a buddy's black widow recurve of equal weight but a bit shorter bow and the LB was only 10 Fps faster with the same arrow. I think this would hold true for most modern R/D LB's. The gap has been closed as of late with newer technology.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

I know this will set some on fire; but I don't consider an R&D longbow a true longbow regardless the string might not touch the limbs. To me, the RD longbow is more of a recurve with some simply having narrower limbs and riser than most recurves.

Now I will put my helmet on and take cover.


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## Mctexans (Jul 14, 2010)

The recurve was a technological improvement over the longbow. I own many different longbows and recurves. I also have access to a chronograph and if the question is which is faster of equal draw and poundage its a recurve.


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## Mctexans (Jul 14, 2010)

Also what WindWalker says is true, a R/D is a hybrid not a Longbow.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Alanraw- That used to be true. In terms of all wood bows, a longer weapon stores more energy than a shorter one, regardless of whether it is straight or recurved. With fiberglass that has changed. A shorter bow can withstand the severe working bends of a working recurve without breaking down or gaining lots of string follow. So: old recurves, high efficiency/low stored energy; old longbows, low efficiency/high energy storage. Today: recurves, high stored energy/high efficiency; straight bows, high stored energy/low efficiency; hybrids, high stored energy/high efficiency.

Today, most glass straight bows still profit from using heavier arrows to lighten handshock and make them dead quiet, but recurves have progressed a long way. Likewise, some selfbows are now designed to be more efficient and store as much energy than some Hill style straight bows. Everything's getting better:thumbs_up

As for R/D bows, the hybrid design is old. Native Americans used it in selfbows and Egyptians used it in chariot bows. It's a semi-recurve or whatever you'd like to call it. I like the name hybrid, because they really are right in the middle of the two designs, but neither a true recurve or true longbow.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

There are other factors to consider. If you draw 27 inches it may well make no difference which style you pick. If you draw 30 inches I will bet on the recurve every time. Thinking further into it, and I am not sure of this; but it seems logical that a partial draw on a long bow would be more efficent than a partial draw on a recurve. The partially drawn recurve would carry the weight of the tips as dead weight with no benifit of pulling them out. Never tried it though.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Yes and no. The bow that stores the most energy at the shorter draw will shoot better, because _most_ recurves and longbows are made with too much mass at the tips either way. Likewise, the bow with the least stack will shoot best at the longer draw, provided similiar efficiency. In both cases, that usually goes to the recurve.


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## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

WindWalker said:


> I know this will set some on fire; but I don't consider an R&D longbow a true longbow regardless the string might not touch the limbs. To me, the RD longbow is more of a recurve with some simply having narrower limbs and riser than most recurves.
> 
> Now I will put my helmet on and take cover.


That won't set anyone on fire. It's the truth. I was talking with a seasoned bowyer last week and he mentioned that R/D "longbows", or "hybrids", as they are also sometimes called, were pretty much "recurves, but the only difference is they lack the curve at the end of the limbs"


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## jflars (Sep 4, 2006)

Now that the question of speed has been well discussed how about which is the more forgiving of shooter form and hence should throw an arrow more accurately. I notice that trick shooters like Byron Ferguson shoots a longbow as did Howard Hill, who in his day won something like 196 field archery tournaments without the loss of one.


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## Soybeanio (Dec 23, 2008)

A recurve's recurved limbs cause the arrow to go about twice as fast with the same draw weight as the longbow.


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## nyamazan (Jan 31, 2008)

We would then have recurves shooting at 360fps!


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## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

jflars said:


> Now that the question of speed has been well discussed *how about which is the more forgiving of shooter form and hence should throw an arrow more accurately*. I notice that trick shooters like Byron Ferguson shoots a longbow as did Howard Hill, who in his day won something like 196 field archery tournaments without the loss of one.


It's generally accepted that "a longer bow tends to be more forgiving", and that to me is not a _type_ of traditional bow question, it is more of a bow length issue, hence there being so many "longer" recurves (i.e. 68" AMO) being shot by Olympic shooters, and that may, perhaps, be the reason for both Ferguson's and Hill's preference for the longbow. I don't know. There is also the claim that longbows (not including hybrids or more modern R/D designs) tend to be "slower but typically more accurate (not my words)


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

jflars said:


> Now that the question of speed has been well discussed how about which is the more forgiving of shooter form and hence should throw an arrow more accurately. I notice that trick shooters like Byron Ferguson shoots a longbow as did Howard Hill, who in his day won something like 196 field archery tournaments without the loss of one.


There were always be the outliers who don't fit the norm, and norms move places or are reestablished over time (like, what were the scores for 196 wins and everyone was shooting the same setup), but if one wanted some test data based on on the 99.99% of shooters and those who compete for accuracy, longbow scores and recurve scores are not the same. That would be, a longbow designed as we recognize it from the past as compared to some of today's recurves. As mentioned in earlier posts, a longbow ain't necessarily all longbow anymore. It can cross lines in it's limb design and ILF longbow limbs can be mounted to a weighted barebow riser.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

My guess is folks like Byron Ferguson could shoot just about any bow better than most other folks. Knowing of the bows good shooters choose to shoot is of some value, but good shooters can shoot most any bow. I don't think there is an answer to the last question.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

WindWalker said:


> I know this will set some on fire; but I don't consider an R&D longbow a true longbow regardless the string might not touch the limbs. To me, the RD longbow is more of a recurve with some simply having narrower limbs and riser than most recurves.
> 
> Now I will put my helmet on and take cover.





alanraw said:


> That won't set anyone on fire. It's the truth. I was talking with a seasoned bowyer last week and he mentioned that R/D "longbows", or "hybrids", as they are also sometimes called, were pretty much "recurves, but the only difference is they lack the curve at the end of the limbs"


I think you are both essentially. In one sense, R/D longbows are like a recurve with a really big, gentle recurve. However, there are two separate aspects to a recurve. A) Recurved limbs that allow the bow to have more tension at brace height than a straight bow. B) the variable string geometry of a recurve as the string lifts off the limbs, which affects the leverage. R/D longbows get "A" but not "B".


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## Robot-guy (Aug 18, 2005)

It is my understanding that if the entire area under a Force Draw curve is identical between different bows, with the same mass strings, then same mass arrows will leave each bow with the same speed. Different bow designs have subtle (sometimes vast) differences in the F/D curves which can give one bow a small speed advantage over another. Two bows that draw the same weight at the same draw length doesn't mean they have the same F/D curves.

As for the stability question, the heavier the bow, the more stable it becomes.


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## Flying Dutchman (Aug 7, 2008)

Mctexans said:


> Also what WindWalker says is true, a R/D is a hybrid not a Longbow.


In my opinion a hybrid longbow is something else as a R/D longbow! By the way, my hybrid shoots a 9gpp arrow with a 10-stands string at 195 fps. That's faster as some recurves I know.....


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Robot-guy said:


> It is my understanding that if the entire area under a Force Draw curve is identical between different bows, with the same mass strings, then same mass arrows will leave each bow with the same speed. Different bow designs have subtle (sometimes vast) differences in the F/D curves which can give one bow a small speed advantage over another. Two bows that draw the same weight at the same draw length doesn't mean they have the same F/D curves.
> 
> As for the stability question, the heavier the bow, the more stable it becomes.


Not really. Provided the same FD curve, arrow mass/tune, and string, draw, etc. then the most mechanically efficient bow will shoot faster. If I build two selfbows that are exaclty the same except one has narrow, light, stiff tips than the other is the old school traditional straight taper bend the full length, then the first will out shoot the second and have less handshock- a noticable difference too.

The legnth, physical weight, handle design, etc. all help mess with stability.


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## Robot-guy (Aug 18, 2005)

Yes, inefficiencies rob the potential energy from the bow and its final arrow velocity. Assuming all of that is properly designed and optimized, the stored energy in the bow determines the final arrow velocity.

Since many of us don't know the F/D curves for our particular bows, but can quote our poundage at a draw length, we come up with different arguments about this bow being faster than that bow, or this design being better that that design. We well designed Longbow will outshoot a poor recurve, and vice versa. I am still just studying these effects, and will soon get me a chrono to do some real data collecting.

Pete


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## Runningbuck (Mar 11, 2009)

Both bows being the same length,poundage etc shooting the same weight arrow, the recurve will be a tad faster. Longbows will handle a heavy arrow better then a recurve. The overall difference between the two is like picking fly crap out of pepper, it means nothing.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Runningbuck said:


> Both bows being the same length,poundage etc shooting the same weight arrow, the recurve will be a tad faster. Longbows will handle a heavy arrow better then a recurve. The overall difference between the two is like picking fly crap out of pepper, it means nothing.


By "handle" what do you mean? 

The old standard that longbows shot heavy arrows faster than recurves only applies to selfbows with very small recurves and too much set (short- low inertia, but less stored energy). Modern recurves still shoot faster than longbows with heavy arrows.

Longbows still shoot sweetly with heavier arrows, because they make the bow more efficient (less noise and shock).

Sorry, I know that came off as completely pompous- but it's just such a pet peeve of mine:zip:!!!


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## Barry O'Regan (Nov 2, 2008)

My #70 Chek-Mate Hunter Recurve fires out carbons at 250 fps at 420 grains
As for accuracy? Well up to 20 yards it is bang on, 25-30 yards and beyond, well I would rather not say, as I am most likely in the back forty looking for my arrows! Aluminum with a 120 grain point at 550 grains shoots around 220fps and is accurate up to 50 yards. Beyond 50 yards, well again, looking for arrows under the dirt aint fun ~


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## suzuka (Nov 28, 2007)

Eldermike said:


> There are other factors to consider. If you draw 27 inches it may well make no difference which style you pick. If you draw 30 inches I will bet on the recurve every time. Thinking further into it, and I am not sure of this; but it seems logical that a partial draw on a long bow would be more efficent than a partial draw on a recurve. The partially drawn recurve would carry the weight of the tips as dead weight with no benifit of pulling them out. Never tried it though.


I agree with the idea of loading the tips of a recurve in order to get the maximum performance out of the limbs. This will come down to a personal draw length and the recurve's AMO. When you match the two up, you will see the difference. Your LBs will not be that sensitive . No curves. Now hybrids, are very forgiving.


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## ember (Jul 23, 2004)

Recurve bows are faster.


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## woof156 (Apr 3, 2018)

I had a chance to chrono my 38# otf recurve against a 60# longbbow-- my recurve was faster by several fps-- we repeated this 3 timesn but we didn't use the same arrows so there is that--- your mileage may vary but in my mind recurves are faster, long bows seem smoother to shoot.


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