# Limb alignment



## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

Sorry for this question, but this is my first Oly recurve riser + limbs.
The riser is Gillo G1; the limbs are SF Axiom Plus 28#.

The lower limb is set fairly straight (I didn't use the side adjustment much). However, the upper limb had to be adjusted like so, in order to get anywhere near center. Actually, it needs to be over even more (it's not quite centered), but it got to the point where it was becoming nearly impossible to insert/remove the limbs so I stopped.

Is this amount of adjustment normal or is there something wrong with the riser, the limbs, or my technique?


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Can you show us photos of why you feel it is necessary to adjust your limbs? In other words, are you using items like Beiter gauges or tape with lines or something to detect that your limbs require alignment? How did you determine that the lower limb didn't need adjustment but the upper one did?

There are risers that don't even have this adjustment, so it's not really considered normal to need extreme adjustment. It could be the limbs or it could be the riser or it could be both. However, more information on how you made these determinations to adjust the riser will be needed to make any sort of guess as to what's going on.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

Sure, and thanks for asking. In this picture, I set the limb adjustment screws back to center so you can see the starting point of adjustment. On the upper limb, the string does not even sit in the groove.









You can download a larger image to see better detail: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1117536/20151105-212259 P1410292-LRedit-2.jpg


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Switch the limbs. Upper to lower and vice versa. Take another picture. Do not adjust the limb alignment.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

Here it is.









Full size link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1117536/20151105-220355 P1410295-LRedit.jpg

It's maybe hard to see but basically it exhibits the same problem: upper limb string sitting left of groove.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Gimme a couple/30mins. Can't think, waiting for my breakfast/lunch.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Is the groove centered on the limb?


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

My guess:

I would say that if you switch the limbs and the misalignment still occurs on the top, then it would seem to suggest a riser problem. If you switch the limbs and the misalignment follows the switch (stays with a particular limb), then I would say it seems to be a limb issue. I'd contact the vendor from whom you got the riser, or alternatively you can probably contact Gillo directly. 

theminoritydude might have some advice too.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

williamskg6 said:


> My guess:
> 
> I would say that if you switch the limbs and the misalignment still occurs on the top, then it would seem to suggest a riser problem. If you switch the limbs and the misalignment follows the switch (stays with a particular limb), then I would say it seems to be a limb issue. I'd contact the vendor from whom you got the riser, or alternatively you can probably contact Gillo......


^ this guy, has the methodology correct.
And your string groove does not look centered. Inconclusive. Could you take a close up of your limb grooves? Or see for yourself if it is centered?
Risers have the limb adjustment for a reason. It is a platform for your limbs' dynamic performance. Your limbs definitely has some issues with them, I do not know if the riser could be said to have any.
If you know someone whose limbs are relatively straight, test it on that pair.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

My lunch.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

theminoritydude said:


> View attachment 3175474
> 
> 
> My lunch.


Now I am jealous.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Have you looked at your setup like this? probably easiest way to immediately see if your limb tip is warped. Set your alignment to zero first.









Thanks Buzz Lite Beer


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

theminoritydude said:


> View attachment 3175474
> 
> 
> My lunch.


Now I'm hungry


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

I think you have adjusted upper alignment in the wrong direction (haven't had breakfast yet though...)


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## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

Note that you can also adjust the lower limb to get an effect on the upper one. It´s a classic mistake to only adjust on the limb that seems to cause the problem, and forget that the string angle is a result of both limbs setting. It sounds on your description that you didn´t check the string's position, but only the alignment in relation to the limb bolts. You need to check the centering of the string before you know how to adjust. I personally prefer a centered string over a perfect limb bolt alignment if I have to choose between the two.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Mika Savola said:


> I think you have adjusted upper alignment in the wrong direction (haven't had breakfast yet though...)


Nope. It's correct.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

If I had to guess, it looks like something is going on with the bottom limb pocket.

Also, dumb question, but are you sure the detent bolt is sitting in both pockets properly? I've seen it happen with SF limbs.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

So, like minoritydude said (essentially), there are two options at this point: 1. Take the limbs and put them on a different riser or 2. Put known straight limbs on the O.P.'s riser. If the problem still exists with the different riser, then the limbs are the source of the problem. If the problem still exists with the known straight limbs on the Gillo riser, then the riser is the source of the problem. 

I guess the short story is that it looks like there's something not right. Now it just comes down to isolating which part is the culprit. My guess is the riser since the misalignment is always on the top, regardless of which limb is mounted there. As I said, I'd recommend contacting the vendor where he bought the riser or contact Gillo directly. I'm pretty sure Vittorio stands behind his product.

sprinke, make sure you let us know what happens or what resolution you find.

-Kent W.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

FYI, if it turns out to be a limb (twisted) issue, you'll probably never get it tuned well, as it's likely that the limb continues its 'twist' as the bow is pulled back.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

When I was back in Illinois (where it gets cold) we would fix a twisted limb by warming it up with a hair dryer, twisting it the opposite way, holding it and then walking outside in the cold until the limb cooled off. It actually works. You could probably do the same thing with your kitchen freezer. It's worth a try at least - esp. on cheaper limbs.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have a friend with another Gillo G1; I will try and see how my limbs work on his riser, but he's out of the country for a couple weeks.

Someone requested some more pics, which I took last night but didn't get around to posting. Here they are.








This is the upper limb. You can see the string not seated in the groove.








This is the bottom limb. Better seating in the groove.








The tips of the limbs. The other ends of the limbs (not shown) are butt up against something square.








Another view of limb tips, from the top.








The dovetail end of the limbs, just in case there's something going on there.

(I'm at my image limit for this reply)


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

Back of the bow showing the string grooves.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

MartinOttosson said:


> Note that you can also adjust the lower limb to get an effect on the upper one. It´s a classic mistake to only adjust on the limb that seems to cause the problem, and forget that the string angle is a result of both limbs setting. It sounds on your description that you didn´t check the string's position, but only the alignment in relation to the limb bolts. You need to check the centering of the string before you know how to adjust. I personally prefer a centered string over a perfect limb bolt alignment if I have to choose between the two.


I am, in fact, attempting to center the string using three reference points: the two limb bolt holes as well as the belly stab hole (located right under the grip). Generally I could get the bottom two aligned but the string would be to the left of the top bolt hole.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

kshet26 said:


> Also, dumb question, but are you sure the detent bolt is sitting in both pockets properly? I've seen it happen with SF limbs.


This is something I was actually asking myself, since I have no experience with ILF setups. I noticed that there was always a slight space between the limb bolt and the cutout in the limb (this is both top and bottom) ... no more than 1/8" or less, however. Is the limb supposed to sit flush against the limb bolt?

Also, when I put in the limbs, there is always some wiggle room (front to back, not side to side thank goodness). Is that normal as well? Obviously when the bow is braced, it forces the limbs against the back.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

sprinke, you can't tell a twisted limb tip by static photos of the individual limb components, it has to be strung and viewed as in the photo I posted.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

c365 said:


> sprinke, you can't tell a twisted limb tip by static photos of the individual limb components, it has to be strung and viewed as in the photo I posted.


That would be me, I wanted to make sure the grooves are centred. It does appear to be so.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

I have a suggestion:

Why don't you confirm the straightness of your Gillo with another pair of limbs (or two), and if it is OK.......

Use your SF limbs inverted.

Yep, that's what I'd do. Because you'll be changing your limbs in a couple of months anyway.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

c365 said:


> sprinke, you can't tell a twisted limb tip by static photos of the individual limb components, it has to be strung and viewed as in the photo I posted.


theminoritydude had asked for closeup of the limb grooves so I did that. Your suggestion came after I went to bed.  I will try to get that tonight after work.

I did try the winding sticks method that someone posted in a different thread. When I place the arrows on the limbs right against the riser, the alignment of the arrows is noticeably off. But I didn't take a picture of it. I'll try to get that too.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

Here are pictures like c365 requested.

This is looking from the top of the bow:








This is from the bottom of the bow:








It's difficult to get exactly square to the bow so I apologize for any parallax.


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

From the bottom picture I would say move the bottom limb a bit over to the right and recheck. Always let the string settle after an adjustment (draw the bow& let down or better, shoot some arrows).


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Thanks for the pics. Sure looks twisted to me, are both limbs twisted? #1 can you return them? #2 if not, I'd do what limbwalker said, heat and hold the limb tips til it cools, generally you have to over correct a little because of springback. Otherwise the adjustment you did in the first photo of your post seems correct only many times you have to adjust both limbs in the opposite directions to get the grooves to line up *as best as you can*. It's a compromise.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

I once acquired a bow (on the cheap) who's limbs were a wee bit twisted...










and a fine Gentleman named J. Wesbrock advised I try un-stringing it and run the working area of the limbs under hot tap water and hand twist it in the opposite direction and hold it there until it cools down and this is what it looked like after the first treatment... 











The mis-shaped tip was still pointed a little left so I did it again until I got "just slightly too the right" figuring it would settle back into "Straight"...











and it did....but it shot fine either way! LOL!

Here's proof...LOL!






If those limbs are devoid of any CF and are just glass/wood?...the same technic may work for you....hope it helps!


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## adamstephens (Mar 5, 2012)

Sprinkle.....I could not get my Axiom+ limbs to fit a G1 satisfactorily. The bolt that holds the dove-tail adjustment plate to the riser sat too proud of the adjustment plate and fouled the limbs, digging into them. Check yours. Could this be the cause?

Ado


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Just few words about Axiom limbs ... they are the cheapest in the market for one reason, and we don't suggest to consider using them on any of our risers, or for any serious shooting even at beginner's level. They were born for the 23" Axiom risers and very short draw lengts, children beginenr's level, and were acceptable. But then maker was changed ... You may need to buy several pairs before finding an acceptable one. 
As beginner's limbs, SF Premium limbs just cost a bit more but are infinitely better in all aspects, including strightness. This is from my direct experience with tens of pairs of cheap limbs in the years.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

That is an interesting observation Vittorio.

I have nothing but good things to say about the Axiom Plus limbs. I haven't noted a warped set yet, and our club sells a lot of them, and also runs a swap/exchange program with them for weight/lenght increases. I have also owned and shot a number of sets myself, my son and my wife and have had nothing but good results with them.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

bobnikon said:


> That is an interesting observation Vittorio.
> 
> I have nothing but good things to say about the Axiom Plus limbs. I haven't noted a warped set yet, and our club sells a lot of them, and also runs a swap/exchange program with them for weight/lenght increases. I have also owned and shot a number of sets myself, my son and my wife and have had nothing but good results with them.


I have not said you can't find good Axiom limbs, I only have said that is not so easy, at least here.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

The consensus among the three best coaches at my local club is that the limbs are twisted. Slightly, but enough so that it's impossible to get the bow aligned properly. Now to see how to arrange return with Alternative. Cost of shipping back to the UK may not be worth the cost of the limbs ...


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

sprinke said:


> The consensus among the three best coaches at my local club is that the limbs are twisted. Slightly, but enough so that it's impossible to get the bow aligned properly. Now to see how to arrange return with Alternative. Cost of shipping back to the UK may not be worth the cost of the limbs ...


If you can't return them with reasonable cost, I'd do what limbwalker said. Take a hair dryer on high and evenly heat the twisted area and hold it in position until it cools. I think you'll be able to take at least most of the twist out, maybe all. A quick no cost fix. You probably just got a bummer set of Axioms. I have two sets of Axioms and their straight as can be. I can switch them between risers with no adjustment needed.


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