# Open c rules and etiquette



## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

Did you say something to them? It is a violation of the rules but my guess is they don't know this as this is a novice class. It's up to us to train and educate these new shooters about the rules and etiquette of the game.


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

I totally agree. They either glass from the stake after the shot or they take maybe a step away and glass which is still blocking the next guy from shooting. Plus this is the largest time consumer to me. People getting up to the stake ranging and then moving their sight. Someone in the group has a yardage card not to mention everyone ranges it before the first person shoots. Move your sight get to the stake and glass where to hit and fire and the target hasn't jumped since the first time you ranged it......


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

Labs said:


> Did you say something to them? It is a violation of the rules but my guess is they don't know this as this is a novice class. It's up to us to train and educate these new shooters about the rules and etiquette of the game.


It's hard to say something, especially if they are not new and already know. Some like confrontation or don't care. I had guys pulling arrows as they were called told them that was a no-no but continued to do it. Also 1 guy got pushed up out of the 12 and they were wanting to pull the arrow out that was pushing it out to score it, told them it scores where it is, luck of the draw.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

pointndog said:


> I totally agree. They either glass from the stake after the shot or they take maybe a step away and glass which is still blocking the next guy from shooting. Plus this is the largest time consumer to me. People getting up to the stake ranging and then moving their sight. Someone in the group has a yardage card not to mention everyone ranges it before the first person shoots. Move your sight get to the stake and glass where to hit and fire and the target hasn't jumped since the first time you ranged it......


They are doing away with a lot of the yardage cards this year is what I am being told. Since the ranges are being used for a few more classes - someone posted a picture of a range card on FB last year and it created a big mess.

But I did see one for the K40 laying on the ground.

Really everyone walks up, ranges it together (each persons range finder is a tad different) they walk back and set their sights while first person is up and getting ready.

I shot K45 this weekend - I will admit I ranged it a second time from the stake after initial about 3 times, just to make sure I didn't get side tracked and forget something.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I was late starting Saturday because of open C, one of the range officials said that he had c shooters complaining sat evening that they didn't want to be on the course late. He told them that is was their own fault because they ran over 1.5 hours in the morning.


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## jensley (Mar 26, 2014)

You are going to run over on time no matter what you do with 250 shooters in a class !!! but a lot of guys cant seem to break that habit even if you tell them & it does eat time...what do you do...just try and have fun!!!


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

jimb said:


> I was late starting Saturday because of open C, one of the range officials said that he had c shooters complaining sat evening that they didn't want to be on the course late. He told them that is was their own fault because they ran over 1.5 hours in the morning.


That is a rough statement for a range official to say. Usually it is a couple slow pokes that screw everything up. But when you are shooting 6 and sometimes 7 at a stake that is ridiculous. 

In Florida when we all got to our stake my group had 9 people, seriously they didnt realize that when they made the cards . We had 2 sit out groups of 5 on each end of the course in Florida.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Garceau said:


> They are doing away with a lot of the yardage cards this year is what I am being told. Since the ranges are being used for a few more classes - someone posted a picture of a range card on FB last year and it created a big mess.
> 
> But I did see one for the K40 laying on the ground.
> 
> ...


Exactly! I had to range a few targets a second time for the same reason. 

As for people hanging out on the stake glassing their shot. When you have a repeat offender, the next shooter should step up promptly and say "EXCUSE me". Then the other archers can politely say something. Every time I've seen someone initiate "excuse me" the offender has politely accepted.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I think Open C should go all unknown and add a Known 40 class. Split the 40 yard guys into two different classes. 6 to a stake is just way too many.


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

sagecreek said:


> I think Open C should go all unknown and add a Known 40 class. Split the 40 yard guys into two different classes. 6 to a stake is just way too many.


6 to a stake isn't bad go to Redding seen 20 at a stake lol


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I shot 6 to a stake, it was fine


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

sagecreek said:


> I think Open C should go all unknown and add a Known 40 class. Split the 40 yard guys into two different classes. 6 to a stake is just way too many.


That's what I've been saying since K45 & 50 were introduced. Might as well do the same with B. K 40, 45, & 50 and the same with unknown.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I shot 6 to a stake a bunch of times - its fine. But slow.....very slow.

The last thing I want to do on a known course is forget to set my set - it happens on known courses more than the unknown courses. Because you don't spend any time judging or thinking about it. I think I heard more arrows bounce of trees this weekend than I had in open A in the past.


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

I've never read in the rules that you go to the stake as a group and range it together??? And if you go by the cards they handed out or even someone else's range finder you my get a rude awakening... For starters we didn't get cards and out of 6 range finders none of them read the same. I would be all for an Unknown 40 to split the class up a bit. Saturday was brutal standing/sitting and waiting for me.. I certainly didn't have enough ibuprophen with me. It was fun shooting and meeting the other guys but that's definitely the last time I'll shoot in open c unless something changes


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

If at all possible Fridays option would be great if you can get there to shoot... I was told there wasn't like 20 people on the range Friday evening


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## boner (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeah, fri was great. 3 shooters on a stake took a couple of hours. I think the blame has to be shared between the shooters and the organization. When we were walking to our range sat morning there were plenty of people there early, but no one was even there to hand out score cards. When there is that many shooters every little bit counts from both sides. They say they want to grow the sport. Well, apparently it is so they need to grow with us.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Open C could be half and half like Open B then add a K40. That would pretty much cover all the bases. 

At some point we'll see a class between K45 and K50 or a class added "above" the current K50. However it's "managed" we'll see another K50 class soon enough.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Open C used to be half and half....

I'm all for getting rid of the split classes.

K40, k45, k50

Unknown40, uk45 and uk50


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Garceau said:


> Open C used to be half and half....
> 
> I'm all for getting rid of the split classes.
> 
> ...



:thumb: :thumb:


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## Sweet Seat (Apr 2, 2015)

Garceau said:


> Open C used to be half and half....
> 
> I'm all for getting rid of the split classes.
> 
> ...


I shoot Open C and would rather shoot a both or unknown class.


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## robbyreneeward (Jul 4, 2010)

TOMARCHERY24 said:


> I shoot Open C and would rather shoot a both or unknown class.


Me too.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

jimb said:


> I was late starting Saturday because of open C, one of the range officials said that he had c shooters complaining sat evening that they didn't want to be on the course late. He told them that is was their own fault because they ran over 1.5 hours in the morning.


No it was the officials/managements fault my range started 45 mins late in C And my buddy on the other course started later then us because his group had 7 ans the group next had 9!! The offical had to go around and get 6 per group...then make 2 more groups of 6 that had to be cycled in! So there was 22 groups on a 20 target range...

Thats why it was slow. Everyone was at there stake ready to go....

250 shooters on 2-40 target ranges = disaster.


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## sharptrenton (Jul 8, 2006)

sagecreek said:


> I think Open C should go all unknown and add a Known 40 class. Split the 40 yard guys into two different classes. 6 to a stake is just way too many.


I totally agree


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

If a K40 was created and Open C was all unknown or half and half I wonder about attendance numbers? Would the current Open C split evenly or would 80% of the archers go to K40?

I really don't think an all Unknown Open C is a good idea. I bet that if Open C was made all unknown it would be a small class. Open B is half and half and has very good numbers. Open C is an _entry_ level class. Why does anyone think Open C would draw a large number of entry level archers if it was Unknown distance? A new K40 class would kill it!


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> If a K40 was created and Open C was all unknown or half and half I wonder about attendance numbers? Would the current Open C split evenly or would 80% of the archers go to K40?
> 
> I really don't think an all Unknown Open C is a good idea. I bet that if Open C was made all unknown it would be a small class. Open B is half and half and has very good numbers. Open C is an _entry_ level class. Why does anyone think Open C would draw a large number of entry level archers if it was Unknown distance? A new K40 class would kill it!


I know it needs splitting up. 260 is too many for a class. I heard the winner got $880, more than the Open A and Semi guys won. I know people said they would not return to the ASA because they had a bad experience with the long wait times.

And I think you should have a choice to not have to shoot any known distance when you are learning in the amateur classes. I think the half and half thing is just cramming known distance down your throat on people that would rather just shoot unknown. 

Two clearly defined paths to advancement would be the way "I" would prefer to see it. It just makes logical sense to me.

If 80% of the archers want to be lazy, that would be their choice to make. JMO.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> I know it needs splitting up. 260 is too many for a class. I heard the winner got $880, more than the Open A and Semi guys won. I know people said they would not return to the ASA because they had a bad experience with the long wait times.
> 
> And I think you should have a choice to not have to shoot any known distance when you are learning in the amateur classes. I think the half and half thing is just cramming known distance down your throat on people that would rather just shoot unknown.
> 
> ...


You have for some time now frequently stated that those that shoot Known distance are "less" (i.e. "lazy") than those that shoot unknown distance.

It is a FACT that Known distance 3D is VERY popular. I think the sheer quantity of archers in Open C in Ky shows a lot of folks don't mind known distance 3D. It's not about what you or any other _individual _archer wants. It is a product that is in fact doing very well. The IBO is ALL unknown distance and it has not grown any where near the rate of the ASA. I feel quite certain that if ASA was all unknown distance there would be less archers at the tournaments. Maybe the market will swing back and demand more Unknown distance targets one day. If the ASA chooses to ignore that they'll lose out.

The NFAA owned the archery market for decades and they chose to fight the obviously evolving archery market. Where did that get them? On the outside looking in. Heck, they fought hard to keep mechanical releases off the line. 

Let's face it Open C is a base level class. I think half and half can work well letting folks experience both at the same time it does what an entry level should do. It let's people test the waters.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

When ASA went to some known classes it grew from around 1600 to 2000. That's 25%. 

Great growth.

I just feel you should have a clear choice to be able to pick one or the other.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

sagecreek said:


> I know it needs splitting up. 260 is too many for a class. I heard the winner got $880, more than the Open A and Semi guys won. I know people said they would not return to the ASA because they had a bad experience with the long wait times.
> 
> And I think you should have a choice to not have to shoot any known distance when you are learning in the amateur classes. I think the half and half thing is just cramming known distance down your throat on people that would rather just shoot unknown.
> 
> ...


lazy, how is it up on your high horse


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

jimb said:


> lazy, how is it up on your high horse


Sorry about the word lazy. I'm sure it's not all inclusive.

Has anyone figured out how many arrows were fired in Kentucky as known and how many was fired unknown?

I would figure it, but I'm too lazy. lain:


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Wheres the entry level unknown class??? You have a Known 40,45,50!!!! Open C should atleast be half/half. And this is coming from someone that shot OC. There would be no way in you know what that I'd ever shoot OC again the way it was at KY. I'd pony up enough $$ to take 40 arrows with me and shoot the "Pro" class. I may not come back with the first arrow but atleast it wouldn't be so miserable. I like archery , Known and Unknown but come on ASA you need to figure something out


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

1. Do not leave your stake until the group at the next stake leaves their stake, this screws up everything.

2. Shoot your arrow the best you can and then "Get the hell off the stake". Go put your pro pod on your bow and as the next guy is setting up to take his shot you can glass all the hell you want from any freaking angle you want.

3. This is for the asa course officials, on the unknown ranges the zig zag thing is ok but the screwed up weird insane totally mind sucking zig zag is sucking way to much out of the shooters.

4. Go up right after your group gets to a new stake and range the target and then go set your sight every time and make this a habit, then when it is your turn to shoot you already have a initial sight setting and if you feel like making a little half yard change it is ok and quick. This is much better and quicker overall than a guy that doesn't range with the group and freaking waits for his turn to shoot and then does his first look at the target and then sets the sight and then does his second look and then resets his sight and then finds the 12 ring and then finally decides to shoot his freaking arrow.


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

I don't agree with #4. Theres no way trying to squeeze 6 people up to the stake and ranging it and then walking back setting your sights and walking back to the stake is faster. Everyone in the group just walked an extra 20yds for no reason and that takes alot of time. I think the shooter who is up should walk to the target range it glass it shoot it. (Glassing after the shot from the stake drives me nuts!!!!)


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

3dbowmaster said:


> I don't agree with #4. Theres no way trying to squeeze 6 people up to the stake and ranging it and then walking back setting your sights and walking back to the stake is faster. Everyone in the group just walked an extra 20yds for no reason and that takes alot of time. I think the shooter who is up should walk to the target range it glass it shoot it. (Glassing after the shot from the stake drives me nuts!!!!)


We did it at london just fine...2-3 go right to.stake...others stand behind.......others range while other walk back to make adjustments and shooter heads back to stake....we all.agreed on this prior to shooting and worked well.

Glassong from the stake kills me and another one is.....WHY THE HELL do people feel the need to pick up and drag there chair all the way to the stake..... glass it throw there binos on the chair....shoot and glass it right aftet the shot..and try to duck and dive with the next shooter comming up..


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## Laars (Apr 26, 2015)

Glassing shouldn't be allowed to begin with. What the hell has happened to 3-D shoots since I left the sport 20 years ago. In the 90s we had maybe 5 mens classes, and at times that was too many. Pro, open, Bow hunter, and hunter class. Then you had traditional class. I had enough when the open class started allowing range finders and slowing it down even more. Now look at it. You have so many classes, some shoots have 3 people in the class. Just shot my first local shoot after 20 years and I'm competing again 2 other people. ***....... 

When I left the sport, it needed to be sped up, not slowed down. Who wants to spend 6 hours on a 30 shot course then only compete agains 2 others in your class. Its like my kids wrestling tournaments. My kid thought he was good, coming home with a medal every week. I kept telling him, beating 3 kids every week might not be a good test to find out how good you are. If you want to get good, put the time in and train. He slacked off because he thought he was doing great. He was wrestling agains 4 other kids in his class. He found out just how good he was when he went to Nationals and got spanked. 

Don't get me wrong guys, I really enjoy 3-Ds and was looking forward to shooting them again. Just wasn't impressed with what I saw, and where the sport has gone, with having a class for _EVERYTHING, _. Make people earn it, and have it so there are more than 4 people in a class. If a class has no one shooting in it, then you don't need that class. Remove it. JMO


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## robbyreneeward (Jul 4, 2010)

Laars said:


> Glassing shouldn't be allowed to begin with. What the hell has happened to 3-D shoots since I left the sport 20 years ago. In the 90s we had maybe 5 mens classes, and at times that was too many. Pro, open, Bow hunter, and hunter class. Then you had traditional class. I had enough when the open class started allowing range finders and slowing it down even more. Now look at it. You have so many classes, some shoots have 3 people in the class. Just shot my first local shoot after 20 years and I'm competing again 2 other people. ***.......
> 
> When I left the sport, it needed to be sped up, not slowed down. Who wants to spend 6 hours on a 30 shot course then only compete agains 2 others in your class. Its like my kids wrestling tournaments. My kid thought he was good, coming home with a medal every week. I kept telling him, beating 3 kids every week might not be a good test to find out how good you are. If you want to get good, put the time in and train. He slacked off because he thought he was doing great. He was wrestling agains 4 other kids in his class. He found out just how good he was when he went to Nationals and got spanked.
> 
> Don't get me wrong guys, I really enjoy 3-Ds and was looking forward to shooting them again. Just wasn't impressed with what I saw, and where the sport has gone, with having a class for _EVERYTHING, _. Make people earn it, and have it so there are more than 4 people in a class. If a class has no one shooting in it, then you don't need that class. Remove it. JMO


I don't see dwindling numbers as an issue at all. Every class had a huge turnout in London, especially open C. But yes classing after the shot from the stake runs me hot too!!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Laars said:


> Glassing shouldn't be allowed to begin with. What the hell has happened to 3-D shoots since I left the sport 20 years ago. In the 90s we had maybe 5 mens classes, and at times that was too many. Pro, open, Bow hunter, and hunter class. Then you had traditional class. I had enough when the open class started allowing range finders and slowing it down even more. Now look at it. You have so many classes, some shoots have 3 people in the class. Just shot my first local shoot after 20 years and *I'm competing again 2 other people*. ***.......
> 
> When I left the sport, it needed to be sped up, not slowed down. Who wants to spend 6 hours on a 30 shot course then only compete agains 2 others in your class. Its like my kids wrestling tournaments. My kid thought he was good, coming home with a medal every week. I kept telling him, beating 3 kids every week might not be a good test to find out how good you are. If you want to get good, put the time in and train. He slacked off because he thought he was doing great. He was wrestling agains 4 other kids in his class. He found out just how good he was when he went to Nationals and got spanked.
> 
> Don't get me wrong guys, I really enjoy 3-Ds and was looking forward to shooting them again. Just wasn't impressed with what I saw, and where the sport has gone, with having a class for _EVERYTHING, _. Make people earn it, and have it so there are more than 4 people in a class. If a class has no one shooting in it, then you don't need that class. Remove it. JMO


Are you required to shoot against only two other people? Is it not YOUR choice to do so? 

When I was shooting Hunter (ASA) and AHC (IBO) I shot in the open class locally depending on the course and the competition. I got so I did not accept what is basically little kids trophies. I doubt if a club is going to force you to take their little trophy.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

BowHuntnKY said:


> We did it at london just fine...2-3 go right to.stake...others stand behind.......others range while other walk back to make adjustments and shooter heads back to stake....we all.agreed on this prior to shooting and worked well.
> 
> Glassong from the stake kills me and another one is.....WHY THE HELL do people feel the need to pick up and drag there chair all the way to the stake..... glass it throw there binos on the chair....shoot and glass it right aftet the shot..and try to duck and dive with the next shooter comming up..



and the chairs on the shooting line at the practice bags


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