# Why only 280 fps in ASA???



## mbeason (Sep 27, 2007)

My buddy and I was thinking about shooting in an ASA event and the rules stated that you have to be under 280 fps. Why would they have it set so low? Sorry for the newbie question just a little confused about this. Any help will be appreciated.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

Guys that only have a draw length of 27 inchs can't get an arrow going 290 or 300 maybe (not without buying a speed bow probably). The 280 limit levels the field and makes the actual judging of yardage more critical.


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

Bo Bob said:


> Guys that only have a draw length of 27 inchs can't get an arrow going 290 or 300 maybe (not without buying a speed bow probably). The 280 limit levels the field and makes the actual judging of yardage more critical.


+1:thumbs_up


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Bo Bob said:


> Guys that only have a draw length of 27 inchs can't get an arrow going 290 or 300 maybe (not without buying a speed bow probably). The 280 limit levels the field and makes the actual judging of yardage more critical.


+2

It keeps the knuckle draggers from having all the advantages. It's way easier to get a 30-32" DL slowed down than it is to get a 27" DL sped up.


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

ima a short DL shooter and am lucky at 70 lbs to get 300....so im quite happy with 280 fps...plus it makes your ability to judge yardage critical to your success...a speed bow will dang near flatline an arrow out to 40 yards at 320+ fps....where is the fairness in that?


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## mbeason (Sep 27, 2007)

CowboyJunkie said:


> ima a short DL shooter and am lucky at 70 lbs to get 300....so im quite happy with 280 fps...plus it makes your ability to judge yardage critical to your success...a speed bow will dang near flatline an arrow out to 40 yards at 320+ fps....where is the fairness in that?


I'm in no way trying to make you guys mad but why not run what ya brung? How is it fair to hold back the bigger guys to even up with the smaller guys? Shouldn't really matter on speed as much as shooting and if you got the speed and can't shoot well you don't have much. 

Just my $0.02.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

AND if im thinking correctly that theres a tolerance of +/- 3% so if i remember it comes out to up to 288 is allowable under the +/- tolerances.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

mbeason said:


> I'm in no way trying to make you guys mad but why not run what ya brung? How is it fair to hold back the bigger guys to even up with the smaller guys? Shouldn't really matter on speed as much as shooting and if you got the speed and can't shoot well you don't have much.
> 
> Just my $0.02.


So if the top two spots are only seperated by two points. 
On one target the :"BIG" guy with the 31" draw shooting 330fps miss judged the target by 3 yards but still gets a 12 since his arrow speed can allow for that miss in yardage.
The the "LITTLE" guy with the 27" draw shooting 280 fps miss judged the same target by 2 yards. He ends up with an 8 since his arrow speed isn't enough to "forgive" the error at the longer distance.
The smaller guy made the better guess and might have made the better shot but because of physical limitations couldn't compete with the big guy with the faster bow.

Why are there weight classes in college wrestling. Just let the little guys wrestle the big guys!
Bowing has weight classes. You don't have just the world champ, you have different weight classes to make it so the smaller guys can compete against fair competition.


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

The 280 fps limit makes the ASA more skillfull and less brute force:darkbeer:


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## folker (Jan 22, 2009)

I understand the reason for the 280fps limit but I think that it more than likely turns many people away. My brother and I were considering competing this year just for the heck of it but there is no way that I'm going to bother with changing my setup so that I can. Even with a little more speed I'm no threat to any of the money spots, just thought it might be fun to get out for a day and meet some like minded people. I'm sure that there are many that feel the same.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

folker said:


> *I understand the reason for the 280fps limit but I think that it more than likely turns many people away. My brother and I were considering competing this year just for the heck of it but there is no way that I'm going to bother with changing my setup so that I can*. Even with a little more speed I'm no threat to any of the money spots, just thought it might be fun to get out for a day and meet some like minded people. I'm sure that there are many that feel the same.


The folks that support the 280 fps rule FAR outnumber those that don't. If you REALLY wanted to compete, you would, and that is not the fault of the ASA.


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## longbeard99 (Mar 11, 2008)

Its not the speed that people needs to worry about.Work on your yardage judging and you wont need speed.I shoot 242fps and averaged 301 in 2008 at 3-d archery on 30 targets.


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## Kill Shill (Sep 23, 2008)

Why not make it 4200fps so even the hottest rifle rounds can be used?


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

I shoot a Bowtech 82nd Airborne with 70 lb. limbs...You wanna talk about having to change your setup???

My bow with a 367 gr. arrow & tip, at 60 lbs., was still shooting 293 this afternoon on the chrono...

I had to change tips, sight pins, re-adjust everything I possibly could just to get that bow to shoot within regulation...

But now that I spent ALL afternoon messing with it, and everything's tuned pretty nicely...It's an AWESOME little shooter!

It's still pretty flat-shooting, and I wouldn't change a thing.

However, the 82nd is used strictly for 3D ONLY...I shoot a 2009 Mathews Reezen for hunting and everything else...pulling 70 lbs. and ripping some arrowa in the chrono about 328...for hunting that thing's more than bad-***** enough for ANYTHING on the planet...

JMO

- Austin


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## shaner3d (May 6, 2008)

*speed or not to speed, that is the question.*

The association that i shoot in goes by ASA rules and there's nothing holding anyone back from shooting....a "fun" round. If you just want to have a good time, shoot some 3d, and fellowship with other archers, the "fun" round is a perfect chance to do so. As far as competing in a class, full ASA rules apply. And let me say, it is not about the prize money. Heck, I shoot hunter division in my association and there is no money, just trophy. But, I still want an even playing field. I could easily shoot over 300 fps, but alot of guys can't. One of my best friends has almost the same draw length as I do, but can only pull about 50lbs max in an easy drawing bow due to nerve damage in his arm. So, how fair is it for someone "in competition" to be shooting 300+, when he's shooting 250. He's already giving up 30fps to the 280 rule. How about the guy who can't afford a new speed bow, and is shooting an old pse nova with speed wheels that at 30 inches of draw can only hit about 240 fps on a good day. Anyway, that's just a couple of examples why there should be a 280 limit, IMO. Either way- go out, shoot, and have fun, cause 3-D season is here:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:teeth: shane


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

How bout two divisions. 280 and under and 281 and over. *Max *distance on the under class is 45 yards. *Minimum* distance on the over class is 55 yards. 
Kinda like moving the basket in the NBA up a couple feet.


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## gill1 (Jan 20, 2009)

carlosii said:


> How bout two divisions. 280 and under and 281 and over. *Max *distance on the under class is 45 yards. *Minimum* distance on the over class is 55 yards.
> Kinda like moving the basket in the NBA up a couple feet.


They have already done that one is ASA one is IBO:tongue:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Wonder if those 330fps bows tend to blow out the foam targets more than the 280 fps and under...


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

IMO it's a rule that is outdated and should be changed. Unless you're shooting ASA Open A or above classes 1/2 the targets are known distance anyway so I fail to see the purpose of limiting speed to 280 is. The NFAA even raised their speed limitation from 280 to 300 fps. 


I've shot ASA for 3 years and really liked the way their shoots were organized and conducted but their outdated rules, places where events are held (driving distances) and addition of known distances turned me off. I'll stick with IBO.


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

The speed limit is why I cant shoot ASA, backed off to 60# shooting 400 grains I still get a speeding ticket.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

YRhinefield said:


> IMO it's a rule that is outdated and should be changed. Unless you're shooting ASA Open A or above classes 1/2 the targets are known distance anyway so I fail to see the purpose of limiting speed to 280 is. The NFAA even raised their speed limitation from 280 to 300 fps.
> 
> 
> I've shot ASA for 3 years and really liked the way their shoots were organized and conducted but their outdated rules, places where events are held (driving distances) and addition of known distances turned me off. I'll stick with IBO.


This is not an attack, nor towards anyone else: But how can people argue the point about the speed, or the known distance. 
IF that was a factor we would have everyone truely cleaning the courses, which does not happen. 
Also, the use of the saying : I have to slow my bow down; Well, actually that comes to an advantage to you, 1) It gives you a heavier arrow to shoot which the true facts of physics, would help in ''pushing'' your way into the 12 if its a little crowded. Along with giving you a bigger shaft to gather up those lines. 
Just a little fuel for thought.


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## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

Bo Bob said:


> Guys that only have a draw length of 27 inchs can't get an arrow going 290 or 300 maybe (not without buying a speed bow probably). The 280 limit levels the field and makes the actual judging of yardage more critical.


Huh I have a 27 inch draw and getting 293 fps out of My Hoyt Ultra Elite! I got Seth and Brain at Bowxperts.com to go over it and they got that bow smoking and dead on! but yeah its to keep things equal and make you have to judge yardage more critical.


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## BROBB2112 (May 31, 2007)

Spoon13 said:


> +2
> 
> It keeps the knuckle draggers from having all the advantages. It's way easier to get a 30-32" DL slowed down than it is to get a 27" DL sped up.


Hey I resemble that remark!!!! I believe the rules state 280fps and you have a 3% fudge factor so thats 288.4 FPS.


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## whitetail101 (Aug 10, 2007)

Bo Bob said:


> Guys that only have a draw length of 27 inchs can't get an arrow going 290 or 300 maybe (not without buying a speed bow probably). The 280 limit levels the field and makes the actual judging of yardage more critical.


My 2008 PSE Mossy Oak X at 27 inches at 60# is giving me 300 fps with a 300 grain arrow. To shoot ASA I have to drop down to 50 lbs and shoot a 400 grain arrow to get below 280 and even then I am utilizing most of the tolerance they give you to be legal in ASA.

It is for this reason that I quit shooting ASA in favor of IBO tournaments. No speed requirement it is left up to the Indian to make it happen, not the bow.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

whitetail101 said:


> 50 lbs and shoot a 400 grain arrow to get below 280
> It is for this reason that I quit shooting ASA in favor of IBO tournaments. No speed requirement* it is left up to the Indian to make it happen, not the bow*.


WOW!!!! That sounds crazy fast to me. I have a Sentinel at 68 lbs with a 411 gr. arrow getting just under 280 and I'm at 29" and this bow IBO's around 320-325. 

With the speed requirement in the ASA wouldn't that make it *more* up to the "indian" and *not* the bow.


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## mbeason (Sep 27, 2007)

It is the same talk over and over again...little guys this or big guys that. Most of the bows today come with over 300 fps speed reading, that being said any one can find a bow to shoot 300 and up. I just think that it needs to be brought up to around 300 fps to accomadate the newer bows. And all those people saying they can't do it because of size are full of it. They don't want to have to take the time to figure out their setups but expect the "bigger guys" to do the same to get down to 280 fps. 

The whole speed thing on judging yardage is such a cop-out. either you can or can't figure it out. Perfect example of the modern society trying to give everyone participation ribbons so no one feels left out. BS. On the other hand all those speed guys shoot fast but if you can't control the speed then you just messed up alot faster than some.


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## whitetail101 (Aug 10, 2007)

Bo Bob said:


> WOW!!!! That sounds crazy fast to me. I have a Sentinel at 68 lbs with a 411 gr. arrow getting just under 280 and I'm at 29" and this bow IBO's around 320-325.
> 
> With the speed requirement in the ASA wouldn't that make it *more* up to the "indian" and *not* the bow.


Fast or slow, you still have to judge it right


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

whitetail101 said:


> Fast or slow, you still have to judge it right


The slower your bow though the better of a "judger" you'd better be though.

P.S. I would love to see a 27" 50lbs bow shoot a 400 grain arrow 280. You were streching there right????


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## Gary Wiant (Dec 7, 2008)

I guess I'm not shooting ASA, this is my first year back bow shooting since the early 90's and then 280 was possible but not like today, I'm 6'7" and I shoot a Bowtech 101st at 31.5" with a 345g arrow I have crono'd it 

56# (6.16g / lb. ) and the speed was 326 fps
52# (6.63g / lb. ) and the speed was 311 fps

What would I need to do to loose 30fps shoot small tree limbs? granted this is my 3D setup with 65g points but I am still shooting Lightspeed 400's and I don't think I should have to buy new arrows to attend an ASA event.

What's next? Is the ASA going to petition the NFL so that linemen can't weigh over 280# and no player can run faster then a 6 sec.40, so the NFL will be fair? 

I'm not sure if a 27" draw bow will shoot 300fps but I bet it would be pretty easy to push 280. All you guys shooting slower speeds just remember yardage my be less critical for us but the bows are far far less forgiving also.


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## mbeason (Sep 27, 2007)

Gary Wiant said:


> I'm not sure if a 27" draw bow will shoot 300fps but I bet it would be pretty easy to push 280. All you guys shooting slower speeds just remember yardage my be less critical for us but the bows are far far less forgiving also.


Thank goodness someone finally has hit the nail on the head. This is what I was trying to say. Its the person behind the bow that makes it a shooter not the bow alone. I think limiting the fps is about one step from everyone shooting the same bow and the same arrows.


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## lakeinX2 (May 22, 2008)

I keep on hearing "it levels the playing field, you still have to judge the yardage" don't the ASA tell you the distance, so you only need to judge half the targets. How is that level? Sounds like a crutch to depend on! But the way I look at it both IBO and ASA help protect our sport so I say, shoot the style you want!! Besides my 29" draw @ 62# takes a 441grain arrow to get down to 291fps!! I don't buy fast bows just to keep the e-brake on!!!lol


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

whitetail101 said:


> My 2008 PSE Mossy Oak X at 27 inches at 60# is giving me 300 fps with a 300 grain arrow. To shoot ASA I have to drop down to 50 lbs and shoot a 400 grain arrow to get below 280 and even then I am utilizing most of the tolerance they give you to be legal in ASA.


Sounds to me you are guessing. Most normally a 350 gr arrow would well bring you within limits.

Of all others that cry over dropping speed; A set of heavier arrows and spare sight would take care of the vast majority and make your rigs one heck of a lot more versatile. 

The next thing we know Indy car drivers will be b____ing because they can't race their cars in NASCAR events.

Those of the have shot NFAA were really blind sided by the increased speed limits and as such we are voicing our opinions. And then the 300 fps doesn't help anyone in Illinois - The IAA eliminated the 3D Championship.


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## rlblevins2001 (Feb 22, 2008)

I just hope that I can finish a shoot well enough one day that they make me shoot thru the chrono. I wouldn't care even if I was disqualified.


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## InfantryArcher8 (Mar 8, 2006)

*Speed....isn't all that*

I shoot in GA and we follow the ASA speed rules. it's not that big of a deal. if you want to be able to compete then you follow the rules. You can always go to the shoot and shoot, but you won't win anything. Most clubs won't have a problem letting you shoot, you just won't be eligable for prizes. Some one stated earlier that they were basically new to 3D and wouldn't be a threat to win anyway. I say go shoot and have fun, but let the club know you shoot to fast and won't be eligable to win. Still good fun and if you start to get the bug you can work on getting a set up that will allow you to compete. I shoot open C with my Bow Tech set at about 56 lbs and I get right at 280. the speed rule makes me work at judging yardage, but i also get 10 targets to just focus on executing a good shot. I like this forum, because I'm still working on my range estimation and it gives me a chance to be competitive with the guys that estimate much better than I. My biggest issue is with all of the sand baggers in all of the classes that have been shooting forever and don't move up because they won't get to be the big shot in their class any more. Additionally the Hunter Classes that allow people to use basically a target bow that someone would never take hunting (that's another issue) just my thoughts...be safe and enjoy Archery


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## Justin17 (May 4, 2006)

I think your stance on this position depends on what you think 3D archery is a competition of. Is it about making the shot? Is it about judging distance? Is it about both of these equally or should one be weighted more? Do you think that someone should get more points only because they had a faster bow? Do the advantages of a slow bow (easy to shoot, tune) equal the advantages of a fast bow (distance less critical)? Conversely, do the disadvantages of a slow bow (distance more critical) equal the disadvantages of a fast bow (harder to tune, muscle fatigue)? 

Personally I am on the fence about 3D as a sport when it comes to arrow speed. We aren't looking for the best shooter at a 3D tournament. We are looking for the person with the best combination of shooting ability, distance judging, ability to adjust shooting for the terrain, ability to compensatefor angles and wind, and the person with the best mental game. If you are weak in one area you can make it up with a strength in another. But then it all comes back to what 3D archery is actually a competition of.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

Bo Bob said:


> Guys that only have a draw length of 27 inchs can't get an arrow going 290 or 300 maybe (not without buying a speed bow probably). The 280 limit levels the field and makes the actual judging of yardage more critical.


:thumbs_up


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## denden9 (Sep 19, 2004)

rlblevins2001 said:


> I just hope that I can finish a shoot well enough one day that they make me shoot thru the chrono. I wouldn't care even if I was disqualified.


I have the same hopes too!!! But I'm just a shade over 288fps and that is with a heavy arrow. I will never win but love to kill foam


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## Kill Shill (Sep 23, 2008)

the ASA doesnt really police the speed limit so? I know at least 1 guy who shot in my group at G-ville with a PSE speed bow that i would have love to see shoot thru a Chrono, if the ASA had a chrono set up there?


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

I don't understand the 280 rule either, even with the reasons provided here. I am a 28" draw length guy and it is VERY hard now days to get a bow slow enough to be ASA legal with target arrows. 

I believe in bringing what you got and letting it fly. Yardage error excuse is bull crap when they are giving shooters cards with yardages on them anyway. If yardage judging errors were so critical that they think longer draw guys have the advantage, we should be seeing all shooters doing 70+ up on day two with the yardage cards since there shouldn't be ANY errors in judging  JMO.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Crow Terminator said:


> I am a 28" draw length guy and it is VERY hard now days to get a bow slow enough to be ASA legal with target arrows.QUOTE]
> 
> Give me a break! Even the fastest bows can be held to 280 fps with little trouble. My fastest bow, the way it is set up, can nail 300 fps and with another arrow weight it chugs along at 270 fps.
> 
> ...


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## copperdoc1 (Mar 30, 2008)

IMO if you wanna shoot 3D and have a faster bow, like me, stick to IBO, they allow it. And there is a real easy way to slow down those speed bows for ASA, nock up a 2514 aluminum pipe with a huge point, and watch the chrono numbers fall. You may not even have to change anything.


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

I like the speed limiit...it keeps the GAME of 3D intact. Its about judging distance and good form to hit the spot, IMO.


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## folker (Jan 22, 2009)

copperdoc1 said:


> ... there is a real easy way to slow down those speed bows for ASA, nock up a 2514 aluminum pipe with a huge point, and watch the chrono numbers fall. You may not even have to change anything.


except move my rest after spending all that time dialing in my bow with all the many different tuning methods learned on here. Also I would have to redo my served in nocking point given the fact that I'm shooting an H-nock and 2514's more than likely use S-nocks. I still think that the speed limit is a little on the slow side however, If I really wanted to shoot ASA I would make the changes necessary to slow down, truth is I can shoot many of the same places during their "club shoots" without having to do anything to my bow.


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## Erbowman (Mar 24, 2004)

Why are there weight classes in college wrestling. Just let the little guys wrestle the big guys!
Bowing has weight classes. You don't have just the world champ, you have different weight classes to make it so the smaller guys can compete against fair competition.[/QUOTE]

Fantastic analogy.:thumbs_up
It seems like some of the posters would like to have no weight classes in wrestling. 
ASA is more about the skills of the shooter and not just luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its easy to shoot 280. Get the right weighted arrow and its no problem. One probably will find that arrow will fly much better and be more accurate. 

Someone posted that speed bows are less accurate and I would agree. However, I know people that can shoot 7-8 inch brace heights at relatively lower poundages(60-65) and get close to the 300 fps. They just have long draw lengths. 
If there are not rules to make the game more even then whats the purpose? Lets have one class(remember shoot what ya brung). Barebow, open, pins, fingers, releases, women, cubs, pro, should all shoot in the same class according to that thought.
If you don't like the rules just shoot IBO and stop whining. ukey:ukey:


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## rwells (Sep 21, 2007)

Say they raise the speed to 300fps, are you going to cry about something else when you don't win? I would bet most would.

French cries and whine burgers for all:tongue:


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## drockw (Sep 3, 2008)

Erbowman said:


> Why are there weight classes in college wrestling. Just let the little guys wrestle the big guys!
> Bowing has weight classes. You don't have just the world champ, you have different weight classes to make it so the smaller guys can compete against fair competition.


Fantastic analogy.:thumbs_up
It seems like some of the posters would like to have no weight classes in wrestling. 
ASA is more about the skills of the shooter and not just luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its easy to shoot 280. Get the right weighted arrow and its no problem. One probably will find that arrow will fly much better and be more accurate. 

Someone posted that speed bows are less accurate and I would agree. However, *I know people that can shoot 7-8 inch brace heights at relatively lower poundages(60-65) and get close to the 300 fps. They just have long draw lengths. * If there are not rules to make the game more even then whats the purpose? Lets have one class(remember shoot what ya brung). Barebow, open, pins, fingers, releases, women, cubs, pro, should all shoot in the same class according to that thought.
If you don't like the rules just shoot IBO and stop whining. ukey:ukey:[/QUOTE]

Im a perfect example of that. At 56#'s Im shooting 286 with a 318 gr. x weave out of my pro-elite with 30" C2 cams. Its also got 8 5/8" of brace height to go along with it.

My view on this subject is simple... THE SLOWER THE SETUP, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS TO SHOOT. It MAKES the shooters better.... I know this for a fact b/c last weekend, I shot at a local shoot with my aluminum arrows. a whopping 236fps. You guys wouldnt believe how much it changed my scores lol! I am usually prett consistant, and I am exceptional at yardage judging (its usually me that makes a bad shot, not bad judging) and it was still hard! Any little off judge and it seemed like i was way off. The 2nd target was 53 yards and I set my sight on 50 and shot it and i was proabably 4-6 inches away from the 11. I imagine if i was shooting 280 it would have been much closer.

If you dont agree with the rules, dont go. Dont participate. Shoot IBO. Another simple proposition I have setups for both b/c I like to shoot both. 95% of teh time though, my bows arent shooting more than 290.

Derek


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## RNT (Feb 28, 2007)

Thank god we use IBO standards around here!!!!!!!!! I am a 26" draw shooting the bowtech equalizer, now and elite Z28, but getting around 285. According to the 3% rule I would be able to still shoot. Last year I beat alot of guys shooting the speed bows, some going over 300 fps, I personally think it is an un necessary rule.


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## BMA1974 (Feb 4, 2009)

Corect me if I'm wrong, but isn't a shorter draw more forgiving( less time the arrow's on the string) giving the smaller guys a slight advantage in shooting flaws. Maybe the short guys should have to shoot lower brace height bows to even that out.


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## phumb (Oct 7, 2006)

I haven't read all the replies here so sorry if its been covered...I have also never shot any "official" 3d tournys but thought I remember reading that 280 fps is ONLY if you were under 5 gpp....is that for IBO?


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## whitetail101 (Aug 10, 2007)

phumb said:


> I haven't read all the replies here so sorry if its been covered...I have also never shot any "official" 3d tournys but thought I remember reading that 280 fps is ONLY if you were under 5 gpp....is that for IBO?


That is correct, under IBO rules if your shooting an arrow less than 5 gpp then you can be no faster than 280 fps.

Most people shooting in the IBO tourneys are at or slightly above 5 gpp so that wouldn't apply to approx 90% of the archers in IBO. I myself am at 5.01 gpp and am at 301 fps at 27 inches


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## Erbowman (Mar 24, 2004)

BMA1974 said:


> Corect me if I'm wrong, but isn't a shorter draw more forgiving( less time the arrow's on the string) giving the smaller guys a slight advantage in shooting flaws. Maybe the short guys should have to shoot lower brace height bows to even that out.


I would not make that comparison exactly b/c a longer draw length would have less of an angle on the rest. A short draw length or a long draw length, both can have speed bows that will do excess of 300fps. Its just easier for a longer draw length person to achieve those speeds. A long brace height is the biggest advantage in the forgiveness category.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

I shoot ASA sanctioned and also shoot club shoots which also follow ASA rules. I personally like IBO rules better but down here in the South they don't have many IBO shoots other than the Dixie Triple Crown shoots.

Which there is a good example of the bull crap of how important yardage judging is in 3D and how crappy the speed limit excuse is. If it were that big of a deal, the IBO guys with 30+ inch draws should be winning every shoot because of the ability to "misjudge yardage" and their bow make up for it. It was pretty equal back then. You still have to shoot the bow.

And as I said before, the ASA handing out cards with yardages on them for some classes should also eliminate the advantage of yardage judging (how does THAT leave 3D "intact"?). But from what I've seen, it doesn't really raise scores as much as you'd think it would. In our local shoots we have a "rangefinder" class and a lot of times their scores ain't but 4-6 points higher than the Open classes that shoot from the same stakes IF they are any higher at all.

Oh and one more comment about the getting the arrows slow. I'm a 28" draw guy. Shooting a 82nd Airborne with 60# limbs backed out 3 rounds. I don't have a bow weight scale but I figured in my mind that should be about 55#. I just bought a half dozen CXL 250s and fletched them up. I got them because of the ones I looked at, they were the heavier GPI "fat shafts" in my spine size. Not sure how they are going to group shoot but I just fired them through my chrony. They are shooting an average of 294.6 FPS and the digital scale weighed them at 298 grains which is 23 grains above 5 GPP. I will either have to put more weight into them or drop the poundage more on the bow to make them ASA legal. That's a lot of trouble for 14 FPS that really don't amount to a hill of beans.


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## drockw (Sep 3, 2008)

Just drop another # or 2 and get it at 288... I do understand though. My 101st @ 53#'s with a 308 gr. arrow still shot 300fps. But i was at 29.5"


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## BMA1974 (Feb 4, 2009)

Erbowman said:


> I would not make that comparison exactly b/c a longer draw length would have less of an angle on the rest. A short draw length or a long draw length, both can have speed bows that will do excess of 300fps. Its just easier for a longer draw length person to achieve those speeds. A long brace height is the biggest advantage in the forgiveness category.


Not arguing, just trying to learn something. 
Archer 1 has a 28" draw length, shooting a bow with a 6" brace height,
archer 2 has a 29" draw lenght, shooting a bow with a 7" brace height,
wouldn't that be the same as far as forgivness and also speed.


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## Hasbro (Jul 5, 2003)

Crow Terminator said:


> I shoot ASA sanctioned and also shoot club shoots which also follow ASA rules. I personally like IBO rules better but down here in the South they don't have many IBO shoots other than the Dixie Triple Crown shoots.
> 
> Which there is a good example of the bull crap of how important yardage judging is in 3D and how crappy the speed limit excuse is. If it were that big of a deal, the IBO guys with 30+ inch draws should be winning every shoot because of the ability to "misjudge yardage" and their bow make up for it. It was pretty equal back then. You still have to shoot the bow.
> 
> ...



Follow the rules & play or pound sand!?

The choice is yours.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

Hasbro said:


> Follow the rules & play or pound sand!?
> 
> The choice is yours.


I still play and follow the rules. But that SURE don't mean I agree with them.  If you caught anything at all from my posts, you would have noticed my 28" draw makes me "average" and by all accounts posted here, at a "disadvantage" to shooters with longer draw. And I'm not whining about them having an "advantage" over me. I have enough confidence in myself that I can hold my own. I just wish they could make it simpler on having to play around so much to find a legal arrow that shoots good.


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## Erbowman (Mar 24, 2004)

BMA1974 said:


> Not arguing, just trying to learn something.
> Archer 1 has a 28" draw length, shooting a bow with a 6" brace height,
> archer 2 has a 29" draw lenght, shooting a bow with a 7" brace height,
> wouldn't that be the same as far as forgivness and also speed.


No
Assuming the rest has the same set back from the riser, The 29" draw would have less of an angle with the rest and the 7 inch brace height would be more forgiving during the shot. The speed would depend on the bow and the setup.
If anything, the longer draw person's arrow that is going the legal speed would travel flatter than the shorter draw archer due to momentum.


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## PUGIDOGS (Mar 17, 2005)

Funny but emabressing story. I went to a shoot a couple years ago driving about 2 hours to get there. Go to open the bow case and guess what I grabbed my spot bow. The bow did not qualify for anything but Pro/Open so I shot that. I luckly did have other yardage marks on the scope. I Ended up 3rd. Was I at a dissadvantage, yes, was it fun, yes. Nothing like throwing arrows at 3D targets at a wopping 210 FPS. I did take a little razzing from friends but all was good....Pugi


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## RNT (Feb 28, 2007)

BMA1974 said:


> Corect me if I'm wrong, but isn't a shorter draw more forgiving( less time the arrow's on the string) giving the smaller guys a slight advantage in shooting flaws. Maybe the short guys should have to shoot lower brace height bows to even that out.


HEY.......dont intrude on my advantage..........LOL..........:icon_1_lol: :wink:


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## MAXX77 (Nov 21, 2007)

rlblevins2001 said:


> I just hope that I can finish a shoot well enough one day that they make me shoot thru the chrono. I wouldn't care even if I was disqualified.


:thumbs_up


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