# Osage Bow Staves....Question?



## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

I live in Missouri and Hedge is plentiful around here, which you all know that's where Osage orange comes from. I plan on cutting some of my own and splitting it into staves for a longbow building project, but my problem is this.
I don't think I have enough dry time even if I cut and split some staves today and let them dry till this winter in the rafters of my garage, to be able to start work on a bow by November or December?

Any thoughts or opinions on this?

Also, if that's not enough dry time........where would you all recommend that I look for a nice, dry, Osage stave to purchase so I can begin working on it until mine is ready?
I've done the searches on the Internet and several places came up and they were either too expensive, or they were already sold out, or the staves just didn't appear to be the quality that I know I can get around here.

Any help or info would be greatly appreciated!

Chris


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, first off you don't need to wait forever to actually start the building. if you have somne shellac on hand, just cut the staves and split them out, seal the ends. Once that's all done, grab one and start roughing it out. You'll want to start by debarking and removing the sapwood, but you'll have to do it all at once. No breaks, or it'll check. Once it's clean, seal the back. At that point you can start rouging in the length and width. With those cleaned up, move on to the thickness and handle. Leaving it full width you can get it very close to finished dimensions. Remember to shellac its back to prevent harmful checks. If the limbs are thin, you shouldn't have to seal the belly though.

At that point it should dry out in about three months. However, a simple hot box can speed that up to three weeks. Get some 5/8" ply wood and some sockets. My hot box is 1' x 1' x 6'. I lined it with cheap aluminum foil, which helped some, but now i have to take all the staves out and redo that. An emergency blanket should be better. Three parallel 60 Watt bulbs brings it up to 130 degrees. Only hickory can take that abuse so far, so 40 W should be safer for Osage (besides, Osage likes a little more moisture than hickory, which needs to be super dry). If you use a box, shellac the whole bow for best measures.

I've done this, minus the shellac because hickory doesn't check too easily, and gone from tree to shooting bow in about a month. I actually have fallen so much for my hotbox that I do all my bows this way.

If you want to get started ASAP, save the money. Don't waste it on a store bought stave. Get a piece of hardwood lumber. You can have a hunting style bow in less than a week that way.


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

*Thank You!*

Very usefull information!
Thank you very much for all of that. I'm actually going to take a ride this afternoon and make a big tour of the place which covers about 350-400 acres of my property, the neighbor's property, and some family property and find the best trees to harvest. I should have some cut either this afternoon or tomorrow? Then I can get it split up for drying. 
That hot box trick sounds very doable. :wink:


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Excellent! You have no idea how doable, I know I certainly didn't! I had put it off for a year or two before actually enlisting the help of a friend to cart the wood home (no pick up at the time). It took a morning's work and since then I've been hooked!

Best of luck and let us know how it goes


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

*Thank You!*

Very usefull information!
Thank you very much for all of that. I'm actually going to take a ride this afternoon and make a big tour of the place which covers about 350-400 acres of my property, the neighbor's property, and some family property and find the best trees to harvest. I should have some cut either this afternoon or tomorrow? Then I can get it split up for drying. 
That hot box trick sounds very doable. :wink:


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

I found the perfect tree, it's got multiple trunks, all pretty straight, and all plenty long, average diameter is probably 10 inches or better. I should be able to get all the staves a man could hope for and then some. I'm going to get a couple tomorrow to start splitting on so I can get them started drying out and probably leave the rest until the weather cools off. It would make a great fall/winter project since that's when I usually do my wood cutting anyway and I'll just get the Osage while I'm at it.
I'll take some pictures of it before I start wacking on it and post my results here. You would be amazed at how perfect this one cluster is! It's going to yield some A+ Osage staves.

Any tips on how many I should try to get out of a 10" plus trunk? I'm thinking 4 at least, maybe 6 if I do it right? 
I'm brand new to this and I don't want to screw any of them up.

Thanks for all the tips and advice!
Chris


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

You should easily be able to get 6-8. Measure across the ring that will consitute the back. I split out a tree not so big a few weeks ago and started with quarters, and then split the quarters in half. I make my bows a full 2" wide, but a 50-55# Osage bow need only be 1 1/2" wide. You might be able to get a bunch of staves from one five and a half foot section. Not to mention billets for takedowns and spliced bows!

Best of luck, and remember pictures


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

*Ok....Pictures as Promised!*

I just got all done with my Osage collecting, and *Boy did I Score!!*
Now, I'm not expert on this subject, but I'm not a total Greenhorn when it comes to wood either......I would venture to say that these are some pretty darn nice looking Osage logs?? Wouldn't you? :wink:

The largest diameter one in the middle of the trailer is 13" at the widest point and 11" at the narrowest point, it measures 8' 6" long.
The other ones measure anywhere from 11" to 10" to 9" wide at the stump end and the longest one is 12 foot long, but has a knot toward the narrow end a real bad bow in it that will probably have to be removed?
All of them are plenty long to get at least 75" to 80" staves out of with no knots or bad bows in them. The good thing is that the biggest logs are also the straightest and I should get some awesome quality staves out of these.

I was going to start splitting them, but it's now near 100 deg. outside and I'm wore out from working since 7am this morning and my body has sweated about all it can stand. So, I'm going to wait until this afternoon to start splitting on them, and I may move up closer to the dusk to dawn light and work on it after dark as well? 

*Here's the monster tree cluster I was working on.*


















*My Osage Logs (Heavy!)*


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Looking good! You'll have lots of bows right there


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

I have another question. 
If I couldn't get around to splitting these all up into staves, would it be ok to leave them in whole logs for a couple of months if I just sealed the ends and left them with the bark on??
Or what would be the best way to do that?


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## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

If you're patient enough for that, it should be fine.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

*Good stuff*

We should see more of it on here.:teeth:

Make us a little more trad ya know.


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

It's been so dang Hot here in Missouri that I thought I would work up enough staves so I would have some dried and ready to work on by winter time when there's nothing else going on. That's when I usually try to do my gun refinish projects and now an Osage long bow project. I've got some really nice staves out of the first log and tomorrow I'm going to split one more, that will give me a large variety to choose from.
I think I'll leave the rest until it cools off in a month or two and split those up then. That way I'll have dry staves and some in the process of drying so I'll have a good supply for quite some time. I might even sell some?

From starting with nothing....to 5 split staves and 4 more logs in one day. Not bad for 100+ deg. heat in August, I'm kinda proud of myself for sticking with it. I did take a break from noon till about 4pm and then got after the splitting and worked until dark. I just now got back in the house and got a shower. 
My arms feel like rubber and are twitching, and I'm sunburned on my arms and face. I probably sweated off about 10 pounds today. :mg:

If somebody reads this that knows in the next hour or so......Will it hurt to leave my staves overnight without sealing them?
I'd like to rough them in a little more before putting sealer on them.
Thanks.

*Here's some pictures of my 1st Day's progress.*


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

It's alot of work getting staves, but it's nice having a bunch of nice bows-to-be sitting around later. 

Not sure how fast Osage checks, if you leave them somewhere damp you shouldn't be as concerned as if it's out in the sun and wind.


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

kegan said:


> It's alot of work getting staves, but it's nice having a bunch of nice bows-to-be sitting around later.
> 
> Not sure how fast Osage checks, if you leave them somewhere damp you shouldn't be as concerned as if it's out in the sun and wind.


Just in my short experience with it, it seems to start to split and check almost immediately. I already had one piece start to separate the heart wood from the bark/sap wood/and outer 3-4 rings. It completely separated in a half circle and began to peel away. It looked really odd, so I helped it along and finished separating the two pieces. I don't know how it will turn out when it dries, but I'm saving it anyway.

I ended up with 4 staves that I thought were worthy of putting inside the garage, they were the best of the best and the other 5 staves are stacked outside. I still have 2 more logs that I didn't split that are stacked along with the other 5 staves outside. 
I decided to take one of the very straightest staves that I had in the rafters of the garage and began working on it. I hope I don't screw it up because I think it's the straightest one I've got that's free of any knots or deformities.

Also, I didn't have a draw knife so I made my own from an old lawn mower blade and welded some handles on it. I've never owned a draw knife so I don't really have any experience to compare it to, but my home made one works pretty slick. I put a razor edge on it and it shaves the sap wood off like a warm knife through butter. 
Simple things for simple folks, and I haven't found many tools that I can't make myself, especially if I can see a picture of the tool and copy it in my own way.

*Raw stave that's pretty straight*









*Removing the sap wood.*









*My home made draw knife from an old lawnmower blade*

















*Almost got all the sap wood gone from this end, some pretty good grain showing here. I think this stave might be The One?*









More pics and progress coming later.


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## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

Looks good!

However, I'd suggest starting w/ the worst stave and working your way up to the perfect stave.


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

Yeah, I actually thought about that. I'll have plenty of time to think about it because I'm only roughing it in for now, it still needs to dry for a few months. If I get the sap wood and some of the belly wood off then seal it with polyurethane, it won't take quite so long to finish when it dries out. 
I'll probably do a couple of them so I'll have a back up when/if I screw one of them up. 

This whole experience has been fun, alot of work, but fun just the same.
I'm really looking forward to making myself a useable long bow or a couple of them this winter. I'll have to continue this later when I actually start finishing them, right now they are just chunks of Osage and doesn't even resemble a bow.


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

*Just finished up "Roughing In" my first stave*

I'm done with my straightest and best knot free stave. I think it turned out really well and I left plenty of meat on it for the remainder of the drying process. I didn't want to take it down any further than necessary, mostly just cleaning it up and getting all the sap wood off.
I put 2 full coats of Polyurethane on the back and the ends so hopefully it won't check or split on me. 
This is going to be a real nice stave to work with, and I may end up trying my hand on a different piece of wood before working on this one? I just don't want to screw it up.

Look how straight the center line came out in relationship to the center of the stave. The line hardly wavers at all and I didn't have to try to dodge any knots or deformaties. The grain looks really good on both ends, except one is tighter than the other. I'm not sure how to approach that part of it yet, but I've got a few months to do my homework.


















*Picture of the grain on each end*.

















*The stave has an obvious bow to it, but it is thankfully going in the right direction to help the shape of it by adding some reflex. There's a little bit of twist, but I should be able to take that out with heat if need be, I won't know till I get there.*









*I shortened my home made draw knife because it just felt too long and wide, but after taking about 3" off it now feels perfect. I've got a few blisters on my hands and fingers, but that's just from good, honest, hard work*. 









*A pile and a trash can half full of shavings is a beautiful thing, and good measure for a morning's work. The stave feels a full 5-6lbs. lighter as a result of cleaning a bunch of the un-necessary wood off.*









*This is the end of my post until I get some dry staves to finish into my first Osage bow and that's another post entirely.
Thanks for the help and advice. Thanks for reading along.*


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## Tajue17 (Aug 18, 2005)

oh man did you see that naturally deflexed stave he had,,,,,, osage is the best though out of all the bows I have made and tried to make only the osage is still around.. 

nice score!


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks. The one with the natural reflex is my favorite and I put it away till winter time or late fall. It should be ready to finish by then. :wink:
It's actually curving away from me so it would be reflexed naturally, hopefully I can keep that throughout the bow. It should add some real power to it when it's finished. I may even try my hand at wood bending with this one if I feel comfortable with it? I've been looking at reflex/deflex longbows and they are starting to peak my interest. 
The one at the bottom of the picture is what I would like to do (Fireball), but may be impossible for someone like me just starting out? 
Oh well, it doesn't hurt to dream a little? :tongue:










*This is a cool page*
*http://www.gnbco.com/bows.htm*




Look for more pics of an Osage bow build this winter. I've got plenty of time to decide what I'm going to do.

I actually took the worst stave that I had and I'm practicing on it now. I'm trying to dry it and take the twist out of it as I go. So far it's turning out pretty good, but it isn't completely dry yet. I've gotten it down about as far as I can go and I'm going to just seal it with Polyurethane and let it sit for a few weeks longer.
I figure that if I can make something out of the worst piece of wood that I've got and it turns out shootable, then I can handle working on a nice piece of Osage with no major problems.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I'll be honest, R/D bows shoot faster than straight bows, but with stability not found in reflexed bows. 

BUT!!! Those are glass bows. Trying to get the deflex bend in the riser of a selfbow is nearly impossible without gluing it in with billets. Trust me, I've tried.

Now, a straight selfbow can be built very easily, and if you get the outer limbs light and stiff enough, it will outshoot store bought laminated R/D bows that aren't designed right!

From the looks of that stave (which just now loaded for me), you have a perfect stave that is _begging_ to be a good straight bow with a little reflex! Just gt the tips narrow and light, and keep them stiff. If you can do that and keep the string follow to a minimum, you'll have a rocket on your hands.


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks Kegan.
That's kinda what I figured about the R/D bows. I didn't even know if it was possible to make one or not?

My* "Practice"* bow build is nearly complete and I shot it today. I know it's still too green, but I didn't over do it with the shooting. I got it tillered really close and the poundage is about 50-55 pounds at 28" and it feels really good. Even though my top limb has some twist that I need to take out, it's still pretty dang accurate. 
It shoots prodominantly left, but I think alot of that is due to the limb twist? I'm going to steam the upper limb and see what I can do about taking the twist out, then put a coat of sealer on it and let it sit for about 2-3 more weeks till it dries out some more.

Do you think the poundage will increase as it dries out? It seems to me that it would, but this is my first project bow build and I'm just learning. 
I am really impressed with what I was able to achieve by learning as I go, but I've done that with many projects in my time where I had no idea what I was doing when I started them.

I'm actually amazed that I was able to build something myself that hits the target with fair accuracy and the string stays on it, and it didn't break in half the first time I shot it. That's an accomplishment in itself. 

I know that I started on this bow when the stave was way too green, but like I said before it was just a practice run before I work on the good stave that I'm saving for my real bow, and I'll probably give this one away to my brother or one of his boys?

Here's some pics of it, but remember that I took the *Worst* stave that I had to practice on and it was bowed, twisted, and warped in every which direction. All in all I think I worked a little magic into it considering what I started with and made something shootable out of it. Let me know what you think.


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## formerbutcher (Dec 6, 2006)

Looking good !


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

That's not bad, especially not for your first!

Glad you got it shooting! To be honest, any shooting when a bow is still green is "overdoing it". When wood is wet, the compression strength begins to drop immediately, and drastically. Osage is actually better about this than woods like elm, ash, and hickory, but still. Using your worst stave, however, means that you're allowed to do whatever you want. It's just happy to get attention, and not be firewood.

A bow shoots left only because the arrows are stiff, or because you torqued them. Limb twist won't affect accuracy, trust me. Get the most crooked stick you can find and put some matched arrows through that thing, you'll be suprised! 

A R/D selfbow is possible. But you can't use just any stave, unless you're willing to cut it up. The first way to make it work is to use billets, and glue in deflex. This is the easiest and most reliable. The second method is to find a stave that has natural deflex. Actually, since R/D bows have become the svaing grace for deflexed staves, since before people only liked straight or reflexed ones. The third way is to start the bow off as a thin handle or D bow, and use steam to deflex the center. Once it's dried, careful gluing is used to fit a riser section inside the now deflexed center, but any flexing may cause the riser to eventually break off here. Another idea is to just leave the bow as a D bow, and build the grip up with leather. The last idea I know of is... well, I don't think it works as well as the others. You make a takedown bow using wrapped steel. When the bow is first bent, the sheet metal will bend some, causing grip deflex, and you just reflex the outer limbs. I have a bow I'll be posting with that sort of R/D shape.

For your future bows, you can increase performance dramatically by getting the inner limbs wide, but keeping the outer limbs very narrow and stiff. At 5/16" the speed will start to increase much more. Keeping the wood dry and the string follow to a minimum will ensure there's enough stored energy and no stack. Also, don't cut your string grooves across the back of the bow, this may cause the string to split the limb. Best to keep the back ring intact.

Looking great, keep it up!


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## 2_Smithereenz (Feb 1, 2010)

_"Also, don't cut your string grooves across the back of the bow, this may cause the string to split the limb. Best to keep the back ring intact"_

Ooops.......too late. :embara:

Thanks for all the info and advice Kegan. I really do appreciate all of it, good, bad, or ugly. I want all of the truths, criticisms, and opinions that all of you have to offer. That's the only way I will learn from my mistakes is if one of you all point them out. By all means, if you think I'm doing something wrong, or stupid, please point it out so I will know that's not the proper way to do it.

I kinda had that feeling about the bow the first time I strung it, and I knew that I was rushing things just a bit. I didn't get carried away with the shooting and let the bow back down to rest. I did notice that it kept the deflexed shape that it had while strung, after I let it down it stayed slightly deflexed overnight and was back to mostly straight this morning.
I also steamed my upper limb for 30 minutes last night and put a clamp on the tip to pull it the direction I needed it to go, while twisting it just past where it needed to be because I knew it would flex back some after I took the tension off. 
To my surprise....when I unclamped it this morning the alignment was nearly perfect. I guess a blind hog does find an acorn every once in awhile?? :wink:

So, with that all being done and I know the bow shoots and my tiller is nearly perfect, I'm sanding down all the rough spots and cleaning it all up while being careful not to take off any more material than absolutely necessary. I didn't do anything to the back/ring area except even out the scrape marks from where I chased my ring down. I knew that I didn't want to get carried away with the sandpaper on that side. I was mostly just polishing it to make it smooth.
I've got the back finished and I'm getting ready to go to work on the belly and handle/riser area. When that's done I'm going to put a coat of Birchwood Casey's Tru Oil finish on it and call that good for now.

I plan on storing it for awhile to let the wood age some more before stringing it again, or doing anymore shooting. There's really no big hurry on that. 
How would you recommend that I store it so that it doesn't warp or lose it's shape?
I was thinking that laying flat somehow would be best?

What's your advice?

Thanks, Chris


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