# Competition Bow Fine Tuning



## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

Just curious as to the extent you tune your target set ups? 
How long do you spend tuning on a bow before your happy with it?
What tuning methods do you use?
I ask because I know you can do a lot to a bow and I'm not quite confident enough to do it all myself yet but I
Do know there is more to it then what I'm left with ... "Eye up nock ... Eye up centershot... And just shoot your 
"_Darn_ bow" ... Please help. Thanks


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

Search block is you friend,because this could go forever.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

Dynoeaz your right there is bit more than eyeball the rest and shoot... Sometimes but sometimes that works just fine. What bow do you shoot.


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

I have a 2013 PSE dominator max 50 lb peak 28.5"RH shooting fatboy 500 29" with 100 gn pin points with 2.25" vanetec swift vanes 
An aae pro blade .010 narrow dead center bars 27"front and 15" rear. Ds sight with a 4x brians custom lens &scope


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

If I knew what to do and how to achieve what I want it would be nice. I try stuff like bareshaft and french and all that stuff but end up 
With horrible results but no one wants to show me how. I have to pay to get tuning and they just tune and hand it back. I don't know what they did.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

What you looking to gain from your setup? Is your arrow flight not great?


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

Well I has a phenom but got sponsored a dominator and was just looking to get it to where I'm confident it is tuned correctly and happy with how it shoots.


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

Like right now my arrow is about 1" left at the tip of it while at rest to the center of my stab is that right??? How do I verify/ test ?


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

My arrow is higher than Berger hole by almost whole shaft??? How to optimize ??? I think it's high shop says just shoot it


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

the dominator is great bow. For me I paper tune my bows at about 5-7yds get a bullet hole or slightly nock high tear. I run the rest dead down the middle. Yoke tune any left or right tears out. (You would need a press to do this)
I then will walk back from 20-50 or 60 yds without changing the sight shoot at a line of tape. Looking for any drift left or right. If any I will just tweak rest a bit of needed. Then I sight the bow in. 
could I do more I suppose so. Do I need to I don't think so I can see my arrows have clean flight and hit right where the pin is.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

If you ever shoot around fox valley, Green Bay or central wisconsin area I could explain the whole thing better.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

dynoeaz1 said:


> My arrow is higher than Berger hole by almost whole shaft??? How to optimize ??? I think it's high shop says just shoot it


Unnecessary. Your arrow should pass right through the hole. About 1/16-1/8" high at the nock is a good starting place. 
You might need a fresh start on that bow.


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

I work in Green Bay live in pulaski I've shot the bar shoots. Did ok. Fatigue got me


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

dynoeaz1 said:


> My arrow is higher than Berger hole by almost whole shaft??? How to optimize ??? I think it's high shop says just shoot it


BLADE rest setup is DIFFERENT than for drop away arrow rest.
You WANT the blade to bend under the weight of the arrow, with the riser vertical, and bow is at rest.

HERE is MY blade rest, with blade supporting the weight of the arrow.



With ZERO bending on the blade (I have bow sideways on my Kitchen TABLE)....it looks like this.





Then, FINE tune the BLADE rest height by 0.002-inches per adjustment. My Blade rest is micro adjust, so EACH click is 0.002-inches..LESS than the thickness of a sheet of paper.

I had to adjust my BLADE rest height by 0.004-inches (two clicks) to get this result.




FOR a BLADE REST...1) must pick centershot position (adjust sideways position).
FOR a blade REST.....2) must pick starting ARROW REST BLADE HEIGHT position
FOR a blade REST.....3) must pick BLADE thickness...this makes a HUGE difference
FOR a blade REST.....4) must pick BLADE ANGLE...I like to start at 30 degrees above horizontal...yes, a VERY FLAT angle
FOR a BLADE rest.....5) must pick D-loop HEIGHT...I like to start with a LEVEL arrow, arrow PARALLEL to the target sight, when the bow is SIDEWAYS on my KITCHEN TABLE

like THIS...I set d-loop height, and BLADE arrow rest height, so with ZERO blade bending, the arrow is parallel.



since I am using a DST 40...and skinny TARGET arrows, I set the BLADE arrow rest height and the d-loop height, so the arrow tube is running BELOW the berger holes,
cuz this is a TWIN cam bow, and I wanted the arrow as CLOSE as possible, to the midpoint of the ATA of the TWIN CAM bow.

Then, using a 0.008-inch thickness blade (THINNEST blade on PURPOSE), so the blade BENDS, when the bow is at rest, and the blade is supporting the weight of the arrow...
I get a VERY VERY light amount of SPRING support from the blade...cuz this way, at 30 degrees, the blade bends a LOT at rest,
and I get GREAT groups.


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

I understand what Nuts&Bolts is saying but how do you get there? Left right bareshaft could be draw length.. Could be something else. Vertical could be cam sync.. Or something else


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

dynoeaz1 said:


> I understand what Nuts&Bolts is saying but how do you get there? Left right bareshaft could be draw length.. Could be something else. Vertical could be cam sync.. Or something else





schmel_me said:


> the dominator is great bow. For me I paper tune my bows at about 5-7yds get a bullet hole or slightly nock high tear. I run the rest dead down the middle. Yoke tune any left or right tears out. (You would need a press to do this)
> I then will walk back from 20-50 or 60 yds without changing the sight shoot at a line of tape. Looking for any drift left or right. If any I will just tweak rest a bit of needed. Then I sight the bow in.
> could I do more I suppose so. Do I need to I don't think so I can see my arrows have clean flight and hit right where the pin is.


I think if you follow this advise you can't go wrong.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dynoeaz1 said:


> Well I has a phenom but got sponsored a dominator and was just looking to get it to where I'm confident it is tuned correctly and happy with how it shoots.


This shop sponsors you and you're a newbie? No knowledge, no tools, not good. The way you describe things about your bow I'd sure find someone who is knowledgeable, can work with you, not this shop.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

To me just by reading your posts here you really need to make friends with a good local shooter and let him help you get started with tuning and during that time start reading articles about the different tuning methods out there. Finding that friend will totally speed up the learning curve and have your bow shooting good with his help early on without suffering and you learn along the way.

You can read my tuning articles on my website by doing a google search for:

Padgettarchery blog

They are just a collection of the things that i have grown to use in my personal tuning and the order and way I do things.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

You're relatively new to the sport, just got a snazzy new target bow from your shop, and have very little experience shooting competitions. With this history, I would strongly recommend that you join a local archery club, pay someone to tune up the bow for you (with you present so you can shoot it in) and concentrate, for the time being on your form, shot ececution, and getting in some time shooting local tournaments and leagues. As a newer shooter, you do not yet have the established form to get very much out of more than a good basic tuning at this time and there are much more important things for you to be focusing on.

Once you reach your first plateau, which won't be too long if you put in the practice time, then start asking someone at the club that you joined to show you how to start doing things with your bow.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

She is right, a local club or indoor 3d or anything in your area where you can start showing up and making friends is your key to a quick start instead of months of suffering. Not only will they help you with tuning but your shooting also.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

There is a lot to be said for just going out and shooting your bow. But only if it is set up by someone who knows what they are doing. There are three thing that need to be tuned: your bow, your arrow and the archer. Of the three, the most important and biggest variable is the archer. One of the rules of thumb about tuning is that you can only tune as good as you can shoot. 

I've watched a top 5 professional take a bow out of the box, bolt on the accessories and then less than an hour later pronounce it good to go. It really didn't look like he was tuning, but his arrow flight and groups were better than I could get in two weeks of working on my bow. The main difference is that his form is so solid that anything the bow and arrow did or didn't do was because the bow or arrow needed adjusting. Me, I have to test it again and again because my form isn't so solid and I have to rule out my errors.

Next comes learning how to measure the tune. Things like paper tuning and bare shaft tuning will tell you what the bow is doing or not doing, but they usually won't tell you specifically what is wrong. This is where experience and knowledge come in. Example: When you paper tune, does nock left mean that the rest is set wrong, the yoke needs tweeking, the limbs not balanced or are you torquing the bow or something else? There is, of course, a lot more to tuning than this, but you get the idea.

If you don't have someone to show you how to tune, it's going to be a lot of trial and error. A good tuner, like a good coach, can really shorten the learning curve for a new archer. 

Good luck,
Allen


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

An old friend of mine, an excellent shooter, once told me he stopped worrying about fine tuning a long time ago. He said he once did all the fine tuning tricks in the book and didn't see any change in his scores so he just lines everything up by eye and it's good to go. I haven't seen this man in 10-12 years but he still holds several state records in several styles and at one time held everything from bare bow to freestyle.


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

Padgett said:


> She is right, a local club or indoor 3d or anything in your area where you can start showing up and making friends is your key to a quick start instead of months of suffering. Not only will they help you with tuning but your shooting also.


I have shot in big competitions and indoor and outdoor league. The last full year of outdoor league was 28 arrows and from 15 to42 yards. My average nite I would only miss 2or3 x's all round. I was one of the better shooters. In my indoor league I was 4th in league average with a 240 of 264. Out of 30+ shooters. I wound not call myself a newbie but would say I'm a beginner as far as tuning my own equipment.


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

As far as finding a friend that's good I guess there's not many so called pros or even good shooters by me and the ones who are good aren't willing to take the time to pass along the knowledge.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

dynoeaz1 said:


> "Eye up nock ... Eye up centershot... And just shoot your
> "_Darn_ bow" ... Please help. Thanks


I tend to fall into this ^^^ category of archer for the most part. This bow tuning simply isn't rocket science. I would guess at least 98% of the archery shooting public can make an adjustment on to their equipment and not truly be able to know if it made any difference at all. I'm not saying that to try to elevate myself or the 2%, I'm just saying it because it's reality. 

As for me, I work on ME, not equipment. If somethings not working I find out what it is and fix it. Nothing fancy about it at all. Having adopted that philosophy many years ago, now, when I make a change to equipment, even minor, I can certainly tell you if I went the wrong way or the right way. 

Good luck. :cheers:


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I make my bare shaft hit with my fletched shaft as far out as I can fling a bare shaft. Sometimes that's as little as 20 yards sometimes it's as far as 50....tried at 70 a few times but that often doesn't work out so well (form sucks)

recurve- Set brace height--measure, set within range, eyeball centershot and nock height- Set brace height--measure, set within range, start BH tune-- once BH is good....start flinging at 20yards then adjust as necessary.

compound- bottom out limbs, get weight within 1#--set DL (Check ATA/Brace- more out of curiosity), play with cam sync/timing til it's about right, arrow through the berger- slightly nock high, set center shot(parallel arrows or distance from riser)....parallel arrows on string valley of cam-- get nock to be in the middle roughly.

go to 20 and do bare shaft vs fletched test-- adjust as necessary.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Lazarus said:


> I tend to fall into this ^^^ category of archer for the most part. This bow tuning simply isn't rocket science. I would guess at least 98% of the archery shooting public can make an adjustment on to their equipment and not truly be able to know if it made any difference at all. I'm not saying that to try to elevate myself or the 2%, I'm just saying it because it's reality.
> 
> As for me, I work on ME, not equipment. If somethings not working I find out what it is and fix it. Nothing fancy about it at all. Having adopted that philosophy many years ago, now, when I make a change to equipment, even minor, I can certainly tell you if I went the wrong way or the right way.
> 
> Good luck. :cheers:


I agree. I've shot some very good games with a very poorly tuned bow, then after taking the time to set it up correctly, shooting equally good games.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

All I know is that from personal experience you can believe you are pretty good but once you actually stand on the line with a really good shooter you haven't experienced what really good shooting can look like first hand. I was winning 13 or so tournaments a year and had won some indoor leagues back home when one night I decided to go over to a indoor league night at a new bow shop and win the pot. Well I showed up really confident and warmed up and in walked a guy with a target bow and he set up right next to me. Once scoring round later I had watched him shoot a easy 60x round shooting I believe 56 inside out x's with fat shafts and I for the first time got to see what can be done with a bow up close. That experience has led me down a 5 year road of learning the game and becoming a real shooter instead of a guy that wins when the good shooters go to national events and leave the local courses open for the taking. Back then I didn't even realize that the only reason I was winning was because the good shooters were at the national events, I actually thought that i was beating them that week. I WAS WRONG.

So if you have been competing and shooting long enough to get your feet wet then it is time to start learning the things such as tuning and setup that can help you get to new levels. Good luck.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

cbrunson, I just went back to my old specialist and I am so glad to be back with her. It really is one of those bows that just has a way of taking care of me weather it is tuned or not. It is funny because over the years of shooting with it I get so used to it sending arrows right behind the pin and I will not check the tune for weeks if not a couple months because I know that if I decide to tweek the bow back to perfect tune and setup I will have to get it back dead on. The key there is back to dead on because it is always dead on weather it is tuned or not.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Padgett said:


> cbrunson, I just went back to my old specialist and I am so glad to be back with her. It really is one of those bows that just has a way of taking care of me weather it is tuned or not. It is funny because over the years of shooting with it I get so used to it sending arrows right behind the pin and I will not check the tune for weeks if not a couple months because I know that if I decide to tweek the bow back to perfect tune and setup I will have to get it back dead on. The key there is back to dead on because it is always dead on weather it is tuned or not.


Sounds like you're trying to sell me an old specialist. :lol:

I know what you're saying. I had just finished shooting a 300-24x on a Vegas league one night, when a well respected individual pointed out to me that my timing was way off. He waited until I finished the game to say something because he could tell I was going to shoot clean. It was off because I'd made a bunch of changes and spaced checking the timing. I didn't notice my top cam was retar-ed because I shoot off the stop. It was off quite a ways, like a quarter inch. I threw it in the press, advanced the cam to about 1/16" advanced, and then went and shot a 299-26x the next game.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Fury90flier said:


> I make my bare shaft hit with my fletched shaft as far out as I can fling a bare shaft. Sometimes that's as little as 20 yards sometimes it's as far as 50....tried at 70 a few times but that often doesn't work out so well (form sucks)
> 
> recurve- Set brace height--measure, set within range, eyeball centershot and nock height- Set brace height--measure, set within range, start BH tune-- once BH is good....start flinging at 20yards then adjust as necessary.
> 
> ...


*Fury, that's just it. He doesn't know how.*



dynoeaz1 said:


> *I understand what Nuts&Bolts is saying but how do you get there?* Left right bareshaft could be draw length.. Could be something else. Vertical could be cam sync.. Or something else


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

montigre said:


> You're relatively new to the sport, just got a snazzy new target bow from your shop, and have very little experience shooting competitions. With this history, I would strongly recommend that you join a local archery club, pay someone to tune up the bow for you (with you present so you can shoot it in) and concentrate, for the time being on your form, shot ececution, and getting in some time shooting local tournaments and leagues. As a newer shooter, you do not yet have the established form to get very much out of more than a good basic tuning at this time and there are much more important things for you to be focusing on.
> 
> 
> Once you reach your first plateau, which won't be too long if you put in the practice time, then start asking someone at the club that you joined to show you how to start doing things with your bow.


As far as hitting a plateau I feel I've hit a plateau I've had some coaching read a lot of books have been close to winning/being competitive I just can't get to the next level. Part is probably not being confident in my set up/tune. The rest is me and working on my form and consistency.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

SonnyThomas said:


> *Fury, that's just it. He doesn't know how.*


I figured that after I wrote my post...just no time to get into detail.

I'd suggest the Nuts & Bolts of archery. It goes into detail that really doesn't need to be duplicated.

go through the thread and get the updated pages...though it's not really necessary to get started.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1399457

one thing I feel the need to add is in regards to bare shat tuning....

In order to have effective BS tuning YOU the archer need to be "on" with your form. If your grip is say 2mm off in any direction- you'll see it with BS impact/nock kick.

When BS tuning at distance...don't get caught up in tail kick at first...get the impact in the right area. Focusing on nock kick or tear will just have you chasing your tail.

Once you get to where you know the shots on or not and why before the arrow is a few yards from the riser, then start playing with nock kick.


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## dynoeaz1 (Mar 6, 2010)

Jus wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts and suggestions.


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