# Do you think it's fair



## *red-ranger* (Nov 14, 2004)

that guys that shoot target bows with those looooooong stabilizers and 50x scopes basicley a indoor target bow setup, are in the same class as a guy with a hunting rig but he is thrown in with these other guys cus of something stupid like a adj pin sight, I just don't think its fair, and some are semi pro class shooters or sponcered shooters, there shooting $1000-$3500.00 set ups compaired to my $600.00 set up????? I shoot a course 40 target 420 max possible score I had a 343 when I looked at the scoreboard high score was 404 gimmie a break without the predetermined range sheet that they all carry and no scope I would like to see how they would doooooooo, yea I know wa wa wa if I wanted fair I should drive a cab :angry:


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## soaker2000 (May 8, 2004)

let me guess you have a hha or impact site and got put in open class. you are
correct that set up belongs in hunter or mbr


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Learn to lose, cause with your poor attitude you will do plenty of it no matter what division you are in. 
Grow up and accept the challenge. 




*red-ranger* said:


> that guys that shoot target bows with those looooooong stabilizers and 50x scopes basicley a indoor target bow setup, are in the same class as a guy with a hunting rig but he is thrown in with these other guys cus of something stupid like a adj pin sight, I just don't think its fair, and some are semi pro class shooters or sponcered shooters, there shooting $1000-$3500.00 set ups compaired to my $600.00 set up????? I shoot a course 40 target 420 max possible score I had a 343 when I looked at the scoreboard high score was 404 gimmie a break without the predetermined range sheet that they all carry and no scope I would like to see how they would doooooooo, yea I know wa wa wa if I wanted fair I should drive a cab :angry:


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

I agree that those items will help a shooter(scope, stabilizer, etc.) but not 60 points worth of help.

I shoot Limited class around here from the same stake as the Unlimited and at most shoots I'm within single digits of the Unlimited winner if not ahead.

Put in the time to practice. I shoot 5 days a week on the norm.

Took up 3-D last year. Shot in 4 tournaments and the highest I got was 3rd in a 250- class. Practiced my butt off during the offseason when I wasn't hunting(got 3 deer with my bow), and started this year off with 6 straight first place trophies. 

You get what you put into the sport. Some guys put in the time, some don't.


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## the GREY GHOST (Apr 6, 2003)

A movable sight should be in the Open class.


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## Bert2 (Feb 16, 2003)

If you want to get out of the open class and into the "hunter" class, just use a fixed pin sight instead and you'll be all set; otherwise just look at it as a challenge and have fun.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

I would have to agree I think these type of sight should be in the hunter class since they are a hunting sight. I have no problem with it. But, I can also see that if you allow them then you will have to be very specific about when it becomes an Open class sight.


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

It's a single pin adjustable sight...where you adjust it for yardage. That's the defenition of an open class setup.


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## tjim (Mar 12, 2004)

If you are shooting that set up you are there to have fun, which is the most important thing. Those guys have just took their shooting to the next level. 
I used to complain about the long stabilizers and scopes too but now I shoot them myself.
But if you get a fixed pin site you will find some guys in the hunter class will have magnification on those sights also.


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## RHINO (Jul 15, 2002)

*red-ranger* said:


> he is thrown in with these other guys cus of something stupid like a adj pin sight


Is it fair that someone with _UNLIMITED_ pin settings shoot in the same class as some guy with a three pin sight?

You are justifying your sight by saying that you use it for hunting. Who says a guy can't hunt with a Sure-Loc sight, scope, and a long stabilizer?

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and it's at moveable sights.


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## *red-ranger* (Nov 14, 2004)

well excuse me, I will adjust my article what I mean to imply is that I have never seen a target bow set-up actually used in the woods or up in a stand, not that they coulden't just that i have never seen this, so ok enough said about that and if you think I was whining about my score your way off base lol I again diden't make my thoughts clear enough I guess sooooo I guess I should not have even brought up my score as it is not a very good one, you see I have Parkinsons diease and that was one GREAT score for me I even was 2nd in our group so if you think I was whining you mis read my intention, and yes there were some 380+ scores with just hunting bows I just mean I think there is a place for target bows and a place for hunting bows

outback 
dropaway 200rg
goldtip 400's ultralites
65# @28" 263fps
385 grain


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## *red-ranger* (Nov 14, 2004)

*bad attitude?*

thanks Marcus, your a swell guy too.


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## RHINO (Jul 15, 2002)

*red-ranger* said:


> I just mean I think there is a place for target bows and a place for hunting bows


Okay, so where would you draw the line to decide when an adjustable sight is a hunting sight or a target sight?


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## Fletch Helical (Jul 20, 2004)

Alot of people view 3-D differently from each other, prefer different set ups, which is why there's different classes, some folks won't shoot 3-D because on some shots the way the target is quartered the scoring ring dosen't represent where you should hold. The people who just want to go out and "shoot like they're hunting" there's a "hunter class" 35 yard max. 4" fletching, maximum 12" stabilizer, and fixed pins. The sport has evolved more to some and they view it as a "target" competition and therefore shoot "target" setups. People shoot field archery outdoors and shoot 70, 80, 90 yards with a long stabilizer, scopes, etc. Personally, my hunting rig wouldn't even qualify for the hunter class, I break every rule they have set up in it.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Is it fair that some guys have only 5 fixed pins and others get to adjust their's? I've hunted with a 14" stabilizer.........not once have I complained that it should be legal in NFAA bowhunter freestyle.  



> high score was 404 gimmie a break without the predetermined range sheet that they all carry and no scope I would like to see how they would doooooooo,


 Probably pretty well....they know what they're doing and have prepared.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Fair…..

Of course it’s fair….

The rules are there for everyone to read and abide by….. moveable sights are for Open Class… 

Fixed pins are Hunter Class…. 

If you choose to us a moveable sight on your hunting bow, that is your choice just as it would be to use a 30” stabilizer; but don’t blame the rules for your choices.

There is a reason that moveable sights are in open class… you can set them to the needed yardage for a shot, non moveable pins must be gapped to shoot any yardage other than those predetermined. 

Do people hunt with moveable sights? Of course they do, but I know people who hunt with Copper John A.N.T.S and Classic scopes also… 

Want them in the bow hunter class ????


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## huntmup (Mar 24, 2003)

Sure it's fair. You can move your pin to the exact yardage you choose rather than having to 'gap' your pins...

I shot BowHunter class (fixed pins) for a few years & learned the in's & out's of it as well - modifying range gaps & stuff & got to the point where I went to a tourney to win.

BUT - the open scores were (the top ones) still higher than mine so I switched to open & shoot one of those 50x scopes (really 6x) and guess what - it took me a year to get back to where I was but I'm shooting as well as I ever was...

Change your sight to a fixed pin (Hogg-It) or go tot a scope...

SMO


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## ewsIII (Nov 3, 2004)

Rules are in place to make shoots fair for all. The rules/regs are available for all to access, sorry you chose the set up you did.


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## Hollowpoint (Jul 10, 2003)

Some people just like to complain.......I shoot in FSL quite a bit locally (I dont use sights) and I've had guys whine about getting beat beacause I registered a class up.


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## Raymond v. Halm (Mar 7, 2004)

If you think a better setup will give you more points, why than you just dont start using it?
I dont get it.
I simply choosse my gear the way i like it and the scores i get with that rig are very pleasant for me.


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## Ivorytooth (Jan 22, 2004)

Yup, it is fair. Heck our pinshooters out here routinely beat the freestyle open guys. Competition is supposed to be tough.


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

If you firmly believe a long stabilizer and high-powered scope is going to put you on top of these guys, then by all means purchase these things. If somebody offered to sell me a car that I could beat Dale Jr. in, I would sell every organ I had on Ebay to buy it. Enjoy archery even if the other guys have bigger pocketbooks.


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## geneinidaho (Feb 9, 2004)

I shot a course last year with a possible 410. I shot 404 and ended up 4th. The calss I shoot is Unlimited, fixed pins(no more than 5) and a release. Sure my wheaties were soggy that day but I felt great, it was the best I ever shot. Besides at the state shoot later I ended up beating the guy who took first in the first shoot by 20 pts


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## mlviper (May 18, 2005)

I am one of those guys that shoots the big fancy rig. I shoot open class because I like it :shade: never shot anything different. 
I personally do not pay much attention to if the other guy has a better rig.

The only time I do is when a local club is putting on a shoot. And those guys drop down and shoot mbr or hunter with the same rig(X optics,adj sights) they shoot open. Just because the club does not pay attention to who is shooting what. That is not ethical. You want to shot hunter or mbr, you run fixed pins, 4" vanes bla bla.

If you are shooting gear that is mandated to be in a certain class, you shoot that class or change gear. That is the rules. That is fair.

Regards,

Matt


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## Friar Tuck (Nov 18, 2004)

*Long Sticks & Sights*

Guess what - I shoot the shiniest most unlike hunting setup you can get with a 28" stab and side bars and a scope and a sight and and and ...

and the bloke that shoots with me shoots a traditional bow with wooden arrows and a leather wrist band and beats me 7 out of 10 times. Then we go inside and I break all of his arrows. I still love 3D shooting and one day I will get my distances down better and put the arrows where they are supposed to be. 

I guess that what I am saying is that just relax, enjoy your own shooting and when your in a comp and placed against guys with higher end equipment just concentrate on beating yourself. A personal best is what you should be about everyday.


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## Flip Flop (Jan 1, 2005)

just to let ya know , I am one of the guys you never see, you know with my 3-d rig in a tree. All I do is camo tape my sight and go. I do this 'cause I shoot this rig everyday and am pretty darn deadly with it, which is my goal, to shoot as accurate as possible. If you need the long stab. and scope to shoot good than by all means do it but don't get down on the guy that has found what works for him. I remember when I was younger being ridiculed by an older shooter that I needed "training wheels" to shoot and that didn't sit good in my head to say the least, so please keep this in mind as you question what others shoot or need to shoot. P.s. my 60x scope really helped on my turkey this year. good luck


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## Ian (May 21, 2002)

Easy fix know the rules before going to a shoot. Some of us like using no power scopes with our moveable sights. I do believe they would still beat you even if they were shooting fixed pins and a 12" stab.


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## Kelsnore (Feb 7, 2005)

If you shot both styles of bow set ups you would quickly realize its not the machine, but the guy behind the machine that creates accuracy!


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## Guest (May 25, 2005)

Ok here goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!In hunter class and novice they allow rear moveable sights in the GPAA.So go figure just practice more and step up and beat those guys.


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## HoytShooter88 (Oct 5, 2004)

Yes it is fair...maybe you need to read the rules a little better..and for the scope power...we do not use a 50x power...the majority are useing a 4x-3x scope...


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

I get thrown into that class also. I shoot a hunting setup, but I have a movable sight. I could care less. I still put up a good fight :wink: :teeth: :tongue:

You don't need long sticks and sights to shoot good. It helps, but not necessary. The operator is the main part.


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## hitech (Jan 21, 2004)

*Mixed blessings.*

I just had to jump in this mess. Most often I shoot a long stabilzer, scope and all the fun junk that goes along with it. Some of this stuff is fragile and comes loose during a shoot.
If it rains, well it is like trying to shoot while looking through an aquarium.
Sure, I win sometimes with unlimited gear but it is about the sport and the people. When the wind blows, so does my stabilizer  
Last year I went to a shoot with pins and I won first place!! The pin class is actually the hardest and largest group. 
All the techno stuff is fun but it is a mixed blessing. It isn't about that, it is the great people you meet and all the fun involved. The right attitude makes all the difference. Play nice, have fun, shoot often.


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