# Archer’s road to Pan Ams not straight as an arrow / Toronto Star



## ArcherMan (Feb 13, 2014)

Read on lunch wow.?!.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news...road-to-pan-ams-not-straight-as-an-arrow.html


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Hard to comment on this without risking offending either of the 2 archers or the AC High Performance Committee.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

archery Canada has missed the boat for years.. look when you have to pay for your own uniform to represent your country..there is a problem....when I had the chance to go to the worlds 3-d .. I stepped aside twice.. the executive is behind the times and it seems its who u know then u go...lol lol imho


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

Not just AC who has the youth mind set. Archers should have the freedom to shoot as an independent with this kind of misuse of power. Shame on any governing body that doesn't use the best regardless of age. I'll stop now, rant over. lol


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## wheelie (Mar 2, 2009)

Good for her for fighting to get there. I hope she does well. The younger girl will just have to keep practising and I am sure she will have her chances down the road. Congratulations to all that tried to qualify.


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## ArcherMan (Feb 13, 2014)

Any body else pay attention to all this mess.!?. 
Seem like a big deal for archery in Canada
Think the big picture here is big'er then 3d uniform.!?.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

I guess duh .... uniform on down... right..


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

ArcherMan said:


> Any body else pay attention to all this mess.!?.
> Seem like a big deal for archery in Canada
> Think the big picture here is big'er then 3d uniform.!?.


There's some good discussion going on at the OAA Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/ArcheryOntario/


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## ArcherMan (Feb 13, 2014)

Stash said:


> There's some good discussion going on at the OAA Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/ArcheryOntario/


Thanx Stash, good discussing to understand what happen on the page.!?.
Glad someone knows


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## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

wasn't there a issue with the one archer at the last oly. trials as well?

she seems to get the short end of the stick a lot


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

stan in 5 statements..give us a take on this to correct problem.. not long paragraphs but point form. and maybe just maybe some one with the powers to be will listen and correct the problem .. ok oaa and ac listen up and LEARN SOMETHING HERE.....


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Not sure if that's sarcasm or not.  But I'll give it a try. Point #2 is key - without it, it all falls apart and there's simply no nation-wide solution.

1- Redefine the position of Archery Canada as a _competition_ sport association, and stress *winning*. If you have short term success, you will breed an environment where up-and-comers will be motivated to follow in their heroes' (for want of a better word) footsteps. 

2- Obtain non-government funding - start by hiring a marketing executive who actually knows how to contact businesses and get their attention and advertising $$$, and can organize other fundraising efforts. No more of this "we have to do it this way because the government funds us and that's what they want".

3- Select a training team from_ serious applicants_ who have to prove that they are competitive and above all dedicated and willing to do whatever it takes to win an Olympic or World medal. Spend the money on them, cut the failures regularly and add new people as spaces become open and newly qualified 

4- Stick to only Recurve and Compound Outdoor Target. This isn't just to annoy trad and BB and 3D shooters - it's only because there isn't going to be enough in the way of resources to finance all archery disciplines and you just have to draw the line somewhere.

5- Pay the successful archers, big time. If you do, more will come.


Don't cut me down mercilessly on any of this - it's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could do better, but Jeopardy is on in 10 minutes, and after that we have to take the rabbits out for a walk....


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

good points would like to see 3-d in there as it will become an Olympic sport hopefully..then we can get gov`t funding.. big business 3-d.. hey guys powers to be ,,, here is a good ground rules start.. run with it guys.. drop the 100 pages of protocol.. governing bodies use now.. kiss method works.. thanks stan.


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

Sorry but I just have to get this off my chest folks. Remember archers helping archers. Some of us made this same complaint a number of years ago about the OAA and 3D. What we got back from some of our non 3D brothers was boo hoo and cry me a river. Now it has landed in your playing field and you are up in arms and want change and of course for many only in your arena. Brotherhood is only a word if not put into affect. My two cents.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

I knew that controversial messes such as this would happen as soon as Archery Canada announced the 2015 Recurve Team Selection policy which can be read here:

http://www.archerycanada.ca/en/canadian-teams/1779-2015-recurve-canadian-team-selection-policy

As you can see in 4.1) Selection Criteria a huge amount of discretionary power to select the third member of a National Team is given to the National Coach and the Selection Approval Panel. It's all vague and subjective criteria. Which is easy to misuse and abuse. Especially ominous is the Physiological Criteria (which is claimed to not be used for 2015.) What is Physiological Criteria? That could easily be misused to not select a team member for being older than 29 and having a body fat percentage higher than 20%. 

This whole process lacks transparency. The results posted for the Team Trials shows no scores. Just charts with weird numbers all over them that don't even make sense in the chart. What formulas were used to come up with these numbers? The "results" posted show only the Day 4 and Final Results. The Day 2 results were posted for a few days but have since disappeared. 

No transparency and too much power in the hands of a few people. 

The bottom line is that archery is an objective sport, not a judging sport, where the archers who hit the middle of the target more often rank higher. This team selection policy is trying to make archery a subjective judging sport. It is immoral and unjust to have this kind of team selection policy in a country that purports to be free and democratic. If every archer was paid to train full time, all expenses paid, and the best equipment provided free of charge then OK, you can choose your teams in an authoritarian manner. But where at least some of the archers are paying their own way, the only right way is for the 3 highest scoring archers to be selected. This isn't East Germany so it's wrong to try to act like it is. 

Just a terrible thing to do to all of the archers involved to jerk them around like that. Archery Canada needs to communicate so much more and is really failing to handle this situation. AC needs to post all of the results with actual arrow hitting the target scores, define the formulas used to come up with those weird numbers on their charts, justify the need for formulas and weird numbers on charts, and start communicating with the membership in a clear, open and honest manner.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Stash said:


> There's some good discussion going on at the OAA Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/ArcheryOntario/


I see Shawn Riggs is posting in that discussion. Shawn Riggs is the Head Coach of our Pan Am team. According to the 2015 Recurve Team Selection Policy the Head Coach nominates the team members which is then approved by the 3 member Selection Approval Panel. Why aren't you guys asking Shawn what he was thinking when he nominated the team? He's in the discussion and no one is asking him any questions about what actually happened.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

It's actually the "National Coach" who makes the nomination, not the Pan Am team coach 


> Depending on the size of the Canadian Team, the remaining number of athletes will be recommended for selection by the National Coach and approved by a 3-member Selection Approval Panel, appointed by the AC’s HPC, and in accordance with the criteria defined in Section 4.1.,


http://www.archerycanada.ca/en/canadian-teams/1779-2015-recurve-canadian-team-selection-policy

and that would be Joan McDonald 


> Joan McDonald to Lead Canadian Recurve Archery Programs as National Coach


http://www.archerycanada.ca/en/hp-a...an-recurve-archery-programs-as-national-coach


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Ok, my mistake. Sorry about that.


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## ArcherMan (Feb 13, 2014)

See this after work on news
Look like the are going after the Lyon man now

http://globalnews.ca/news/2069016/a...-pan-am-games-athlete-over-facebook-comments/


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Anyone heard any follow-up on the "disciplinary hearing"?


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