# Floating arrows in water???



## vitralist (Aug 10, 2003)

I did that with navigators yesterday. I came to the conclusion that with a small diameter arrow it doesnt work. Any side I put the arrow in the water it stayed still,no rotation. I did that with the whole a dozen. Probably it may work with your larger diameter arrows 2213 andover. My 0.02c 
I read it in Bernie Pelerites book. Idiot proof archery.


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## Not Sure (May 25, 2007)

I think you want to have a heavier F.O.C. (front-of-center) thus the vanes will go on the lighter side.

Also, I thought I had read in the past that the (other?) purpose to float (aluminum) arrows was to have the seam side float up. I think that's the part of the shaft you want to fletch your cock feather/vane on (for consistency sake). 

I didn't look back through the forum so please correct me if I'm wrong here.


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## Not Sure (May 25, 2007)

Just x's said:


> ... I have pro tours coming ...


Whoa, I just re-read that! At the cost of Pro-tours, they should be so perfect that NASA should use them in building a Mars lander. Plus I think they are barreled or at least have a unique shape front-to-back so there is only ONE side the fletches go on in that case.

If Navigators don't show a bias when plugged and sunk in water then Pro-tours shouldn't either. That's just how I see things.

Arrow experts, help me out!


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

I believe that the float test was valid way back when there was a seam in the aluminum shafts and thus a heavy side, but the modern process is essentially seamless, so it's not necessary. This is second-hand, but makes sense to me.

I've heard some common-sense advice suggesting that the arrow spine numbers should be on the side away from the button, simply to avoid scraping off that information against the button (I don't think the clicker would do this, depending on the brace height.)


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## voxito (Apr 16, 2006)

Not Sure said:


> Also, I thought I had read in the past that the (other?) purpose to float (aluminum) arrows was to have the seam side float up. I think that's the part of the shaft you want to fletch your cock feather/vane on (for consistency sake).


I believe this only pertains to wrapped carbon shafts. And it's not that one side sinks and the other raises, but instead the seam, being heavier, will actually roll in the water to the bottom side. Then, you mark all arrows where the seam is and then you should fletch them accordingly. The seam will naturally be stiffer than the rest of the shaft, because that is where the carbon layers overlap, kinda like the spline in a fishing rod, and you fletch all your arrows with the same respect for the seam so they will all react the same when coming out of the bow.

As for the question, it looks to me like x-10s have their carbon more or less weaved around the aluminum tube and then glued to it, but that's just looking with my eyes, I have no hard evidence as to how they are made.


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## firetrev (Feb 25, 2008)

I have tried this with litespeeds (500's). The principle is exactly the same as for fishing rods. You need to have some soap in the water or the surface tension will hold the shafts still. The idea as stated above is to have all your arrows behave the same way, so as long as you fletch them all the same in relation to the "spine" it should not be critical as to which way the cock feather goes on. I find it a little difficult to believe the higher end shafts would have a noticeable bias though. Just my thoughts. Good luck with it and post to let us know what happens.
Cheers.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

imo, not worth the effort. Just fletch the arrows, number them and then take them outside and shoot 'em. Mentally note if you have any that do not play nice (i.e. do not group with the others). On those turn the nock to the next vane orientation and try that arrow again. And if it still doesn't play, try the next vane position. On the X10 ProTours chances are all will play right away or at most you may find the odd 1 or 2 arrows that will play after re-orienting the nock to a different vane position. On the dozen ProTours I picked up last year I don't believe I had to re-orient the nock on any of them to get all 12 to group. Actually had the opportunity to play with someone's spine tester and found all 12 were very consistent in spine all the way around the shaft.

Aluminum and all carbon tend to sometimes not be quite as tight in spine tolerance around the shaft as the aluminum/carbon composites, my observation anyways. However, I use the same method with those that I suggest above. Skip the bathtub, soap, plugging the ends of the shafts and all that stuff. Just fletch the arrows, shoot them, and note which ones don't seem to play with the group. Then re-orient the nocks once, or twice, and you should have most of the dozen yet to play with. May have the odd 2 or 3 in a dozen that don't quite want to play, those you keep as practice arrows or set aside as they may play with some others from future arrow purchases.

Lastly, heard second-hand from some that have tested with an arrow spine tester that the seam on the aluminums is not always the stiffest spine position around the arrow shaft.

My thoughts anyway............

>>------->


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

vitralist said:


> I did that with navigators yesterday. I came to the conclusion that with a small diameter arrow it doesnt work. Any side I put the arrow in the water it stayed still,no rotation. I did that with the whole a dozen. Probably it may work with your larger diameter arrows 2213 andover. My 0.02c
> I read it in Bernie Pelerites book. Idiot proof archery.



15 or so years ago when I was introduced to this idea I did some investigation into floating aluminum shafts.

Initially I experienced the same effect you describe. What you are seeing is the effect of surface tension of the water at the water/shaft interface.

To minimize this cohesive effect you need to reduce the surface tension of the water.
To accomplish this after your tub has been filled with water, add a generous amount of dishwashing soak to the water. (Adding before causes unwanted suds that will spoil the test. No suds.) You can and probably should also put a little wax containing furniture polish on a rag and wipe down the shaft length.

With aluminum shafts, once you have eliminated the noise caused by surface tension you will notice that the shaft now has a center of buoyancy and will rotate back to this position if disturbed. It really is quite cool and you will find that the location is very repeatable.

Having gone through the trouble of doing this test you will find upon inspection of the aluminum shaft that the heavy side of the arrow always lays along the seam line.

If you were to do this test on several dozen shafts say over a couple of year period you will conclude that the heavy side of the arrow is always located along the seam of the shaft.

It then is no longer necessary to continue the testing, as you will now be able to accomplish the same end by visual inspection.

I have done a fair amount of bare shaft tuning and nock rotation to gain some insight into how all of this secret knowledge might give me that competitive edge. I was unable to conclude that one placement of the nock was better than another in relation to the shaft seam (heavy side).

All is not lost however since it would seam (no pun intended) that I might realize a more consistent set of arrows by fletching them all with the seam in the same location.

I choose that location based on the arrows first bending cycle during paradox. During this first bend the sight window side of the side of the arrow is in compression. I reasoned that since the maximum shear force in compression occur at 45° to the longitudinal axis in a linear homogenous material, that I would not want to introduce any non-linear effect by aligning the seam along that axis.







I have found that carbon aluminum shafts, ACC, ACE do have a heavy side, again along the seam of the aluminum core. Since it is very difficult to locate the seam having to look only at one end of the shaft, there might be some benefit to making a set of arrows as consistent as possible from arrow to arrow.

Having experienced all of this wonderful stuff and upon reflection I once again concluded that the largest contribution to shot to shot variation was still the archer (me), and that if improvement was to be expected that I probably should spend more time shooting the bow and less time floating arrows.


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## Just x's (Aug 7, 2007)

thanks alot for all the help guys im new to this outside long range shooting and i just want all the help i can get. thanks..... Jerry


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## AZarcherybandit (Jul 27, 2004)

What CHPro said....


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