# Curious about TP



## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

No! 

I don't mean Toilet Paper! 

Long story, but I'm wondering about actual published material concerning Target Panic, causes and cures. Books, pamphlets, and articles would all qualify. Any sources? 

The reason I ask is because off hand all I can of think of is Bernie Pellerite and Dr.Jay Kidwell. I've read their material. But I'm wondering, does anybody know of anything else out there in print?

I will be posting this question elsewhere just to broaden my search.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

forget reading anything about TP other than it only exists in your head...want to prove it...take your sight off the bow and see if you struggle holding still. I'm guessing on a blank wall with no target face and no sight, you sit absolutely still.

You can read all kinds of data on fixes and I'm sure there is plenty of "TP Fixed, just buy my DVD" but it's doubtful it will resolve the problem.

to fix TP....you simply quit trying so hard.

of course it could be that the bow doesn't fit well. I was having a bit of that because my new bow was about .5" short and couldn't hold well...adjusted DL/Stops and am much better.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Right here on AT. Check General Archery Information forum. My opinion, you first have to know if you have TP. Fury noted bow fit and you have to know what "bow fit" really means. Rushing the shot is not TP. Just slow your butt down and let that pin settle.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Actually I'm not suffering from it. Rather a friend of mine, Level III NTS coach, and Masters in Psychology wants to do some prelim Review of Literature on the subject and we're having a hard time coming up with anything that can even remotely be considered "legit."

Personally I tend to agree with Fury. But none the less for those do suffer from it is apparently quite real. And there seems to be a LOT of snake oil out there. Which is kind of what got me and my buddy started on this.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

actually, rushing the shot can be a form of target panic.
your shot process knows it is having problems with target panic, so it runs through the execution fast, to try and get the shot off, before panic shows up at the stage of your execution that it usually does. what has happened is that your shot process just replaced the panic to a different, more camouflaged area in the shot process.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Rushing the shot can be a symptom of target panic and there are many. Reading tomes about it is going to do nothing to remove it from your shot process. 

The cause is very simple; it is merely a break from (disconnest) or loss of trust in your shot process. The "cure" or managament of it is simple the re-establishment of that break or trust in your shot process.

Is the task easy, probably not as is the case with most mental aspects of the game. And there are no magic pills--you're going to have to put in the many hours at closer distances or on a blank bale (whichever your psychologically most suited for) and work through it until you're operating automatically again.


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## JF from VA (Dec 5, 2002)

If I understand you correctly, you are doing a literature search. You might start with the articles that Dr. Lisa Franseen wrote for Archery Focus magazine. They don't necessarily deal with target panic but they are about the mental aspects of sports. She also wrote a chapter in "Precision Archery" and sites several other sources that you might want to investigate.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

That is correct JF, Thank You!


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Former US Olympic coach Larry Skinner addresses this in his book & video. He defines TP as a missing or out of sequence step in your shot sequence.

Others have defined it as a lack of trust in one or more parts of your shot sequence to run unsupervised by the conscious mind. 

Hope this helps. I'd like to read what you & your friend come up with.
Allen


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Bender said:


> No!
> 
> I don't mean Toilet Paper!
> 
> ...


Al Henderson's book "Understanding Winning Archery" has a good segment on it. Might get your hands on a copy of that. Just like most good coaches (and his record/credentials speak for themselves) Henderson simplifies dealing with the challenge. Get the book and check out what he has to say. His students actually won things, like little (real) gold medals.  That's surely a credible source isn't it? :wink:


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Rushing the shot is rushing the shot. I worded all incorrectly. Okay, something is wrong and most times I believe it "bow fit" and more than likely over bowed and rushing the shot can come from holding too long to get on target to fire. We can only hold for so long and break down comes and comes the "drive-by shooting." Whatever rushing the shot is, it's that which you have to take control of, yourself. If obnoxious, it's because too much is blamed on Target Panic.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> Rushing the shot is rushing the shot. I worded all incorrectly. Okay, something is wrong and most times I believe it "bow fit" and more than likely over bowed and rushing the shot can come from holding too long to get on target to fire. We can only hold for so long and break down comes and comes the "drive-by shooting." Whatever rushing the shot is, it's that which you have to take control of, yourself. If obnoxious, it's because too much is blamed on Target Panic.


I agree that setup can be a contributor to developing TP, but I don't agree it's the only reason why. There's no one size fits all answer to what TP really is. 

For me, my "rushing the shot" got _so bad_ as a teen that I could barely get to full draw before releasing. It was horrifyingly embarrassing. I went from a 298-300 blue face shooter (in the mid 1990's) to a complete train wreck. It all came down to a breakdown of trust in my shot. I became so obsessed with shooting a 300 I tried way too hard, which resulted in me trying to force the shots, which led to more misses, which snowballed on me to a complete meltdown. 

My dad finally gave up and took my bow from me and made me shoot RH for a season. That broke my shot process enough to where I could rebuild back at my natural position (LH). Fast forward 19yrs later and I'm shooting the best I've ever shot. It was a big learning experience that I'll never forget. There are times where I can feel that anxiety coming and sidetrack it before it affects my process.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't get target panic of any form. I have melt downs and glitches


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## AJ the TP Guru (Jul 29, 2011)

Doesn't your friend, the coach, know how to use Google?
V
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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

I deal with people with target panic type stuff a lot. I dont know if there is really any special thing that desctibes tp. I do know that i have a 100% success rate fixing people with these issues. I never use mental tricks or other voodoo crap to solve a really simple issue. Fixing target panic is a 2 step process. 

Heres my take on Target panic. Target Panic doesnt really exist, basicly it is the symptoms of bad bow fit and set up and improper shot sequence and starting the aim at the wrong time and not keeping the conscious mind busy during the aim. When people come here with "target Panic" symptoms I basicly follow the same guide lines that I do with everybody else that comes to see me for coaching. Target panic is not treated special because its not special, just a combination of problems all balled into one mess and named "Target Panic". Remove the problems and the mess goes away immediately. 

All shooting troubles come from a bad aim that your mind knows good and well wont produce good shots. Thats 100% normal and your good common sense to know when you havent got a chance to have success and your subconscious just dont put forth the effort to save you from seeing faliure. Thats normal, theres nothing wrong with you and no amount of mental trickery will make a bad sight picture hit the center enough to do you any good. Give up on the mental search for cures, thats ignorant and it never works. Period. 

Search instead for aiming stability thru bow fit and set up and proper shot sequence. Learn to shoot before you aim to keep the amount of time your in the active aim down to 1.5-2 sec max. Total shot sequence down to 5-6.5 sec. People who can shoot good but has day to day inconsistency usually has issues in their shot timeline being unknown or in the wrong place. Everybody on earth wants to aim first and shoot last and it never works because when the release starts your mind leaves the aim and the sight moves. I find the general archer is not and will not ever grasp on to how you aim last. If they wont listen and learn that then nothing will ever help them. You have to shoot first and aim second. Period. 

Until a archer grasp these concepts there is no mental plan that can help them. They basicly follow the same vicious cycle over and over that has a few spikes in personal best but never holds up in competition. People who are drawn to archery are the most hard headed, cheap group of people I have ever seen. They would for some reason choose to stay in this viscious cycle for years and then quit when they have such a compounded mess that they cant fix it themselves and they think they have tried everything. Every thing wrong, they have tried, everything right, they have run from and refused to look at archery as a simple procedure that has clear easy to do steps that always ends in success. For some reason archers always want it to be mystical answers to stupidly simple process of setting up a bow and hitting what they aim at. 

The coaching circuit cant help most archery for 2 reasons.
First, Anybody an be an archery coach and most buy into the mystical crap they precieve as coaching. This pushes hog wash into the knowledge base of what would be a good archer that has the ability to shoot good but dont because of narcissistic people who want to be procieved as know it all leaders. Beginners will have some success with these type coaches but they are forever blocked from reaching high levels in archery because the knowledge they were fed was given by a "coach" that dont under stand that archery is an encompassing sport that includes physical, mental and emotional aspects of a archers life. But these "coaches" are always free or really cheap and have easy access, They never miss a chance to push their narcissistic crap on anyone that will give a open ear and new archers are like a sponge, so the problem grows. These crack head "coaches" make people not want to pay to take a chance with a real "Coach" they cant see the knowledge until after they have done been ripped off. The cycle goes on!

Second, if people have access to a real archery coach, they are to stingy to pay the guy for their services. Archers will spend thousands upon thousands for junk that has no chance of helping them. Nomatter what they buy they end up in the same mess with the same results. But to pay a man good money for the real cure to their issue, there not interested. $1000 for a weekend with a good coach is the cheapest investment you can make. I see people immediately go from hating archery and constant work with no results, to people who love archery and have fun and have better results with less work than they ever had. But the majority of archers are not willing to pay for something that works. For some reason archers think since archery is a hobby that a good coachs time should be minimum wage. I say not so, it takes a life time to learn produce results from almost anybody who walks thru the door. Years of non stop learning and never ending relationships between archers and students. If your looking for high level results its about the whole life and not just the shooting. That should be worth the money but archers are a cheap group of people in general. 

"Target Panics" real name is archery ignorance. The opposite of ignorance is knowledge, if you dont like where your at break the cycle of what your repeadly doing and go find a real coach and dont be to cheap to pay him. Archery belongs to the people who will sacrifice and do the work. If you do not want to sacrifice and work then accept that your always going to be in this vicious cycle and no "mental Plan" on earth will overcome ignorance. "Target Panic" does not exist. 

So forget your old plan and find someone to help you build a new plan, except this time build one thats based on facts and not mystical emotions and crazy theory's spewed out by every narcissist that proclaims to be a archery coach . 

Blue X


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Blue X said:


> I deal with people with target panic type stuff a lot. I dont know if there is really any special thing that desctibes tp. I do know that i have a 100% success rate fixing people with these issues. I never use mental tricks or other voodoo crap to solve a really simple issue. Fixing target panic is a 2 step process.
> 
> Heres my take on Target panic. Target Panic doesnt really exist, basicly it is the symptoms of bad bow fit and set up and improper shot sequence and starting the aim at the wrong time and not keeping the conscious mind busy during the aim. When people come here with "target Panic" symptoms I basicly follow the same guide lines that I do with everybody else that comes to see me for coaching. Target panic is not treated special because its not special, just a combination of problems all balled into one mess and named "Target Panic". Remove the problems and the mess goes away immediately.
> 
> ...


Wow Blue! You're fired up this morning! 
Great response. Thanks for posting.


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

Blue X said:


> Heres my take on Target panic. Target Panic doesnt really exist,
> Blue X


 I swore to myself I would never open one off theese TP threads again -


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Blue X said:


> I deal with people with target panic type stuff a lot. I dont know if there is really any special thing that desctibes tp. I do know that i have a 100% success rate fixing people with these issues. I never use mental tricks or other voodoo crap to solve a really simple issue. Fixing target panic is a 2 step process.
> 
> Heres my take on Target panic. Target Panic doesnt really exist, basicly it is the symptoms of bad bow fit and set up and improper shot sequence and starting the aim at the wrong time and not keeping the conscious mind busy during the aim. When people come here with "target Panic" symptoms I basicly follow the same guide lines that I do with everybody else that comes to see me for coaching. Target panic is not treated special because its not special, just a combination of problems all balled into one mess and named "Target Panic". Remove the problems and the mess goes away immediately.
> 
> ...


I'll go along with Reverend.....


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Blue X said:


> I deal with people with target panic type stuff a lot. I dont know if there is really any special thing that desctibes tp. I do know that i have a 100% success rate fixing people with these issues. I never use mental tricks or other voodoo crap to solve a really simple issue. Fixing target panic is a 2 step process.
> 
> Heres my take on Target panic. Target Panic doesnt really exist, basicly it is the symptoms of bad bow fit and set up and improper shot sequence and starting the aim at the wrong time and not keeping the conscious mind busy during the aim. When people come here with "target Panic" symptoms I basicly follow the same guide lines that I do with everybody else that comes to see me for coaching. Target panic is not treated special because its not special, just a combination of problems all balled into one mess and named "Target Panic". Remove the problems and the mess goes away immediately.
> 
> ...


Right on.

I believe Blue X's sig should read; "Breaking stupid archery fallacies perpetuated by those selling video's and books one at a time." 

This is the only reason I come here other than for the occasional laugh, to see someone speak the truth about archery once in a blue moon.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

I have personally never seen a new archer with "Target Anxiety". It is a developed habit. Focusing on results builds anxiety. We create an anxiety over something we cannot control. Results. We can only control "how" an arrow leaves the bow.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

AJ the TP Guru said:


> Doesn't your friend, the coach, know how to use Google?
> V
> V
> V
> ...


This is a cooperative venture, each with our own responsibilities. I took on the task of attempting to nail down as many sources as possible as I'm considerably more active on the archery discussion forums. 

I apologize that this has offended you.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Blue X said:


> I deal with people with target panic type stuff a lot. I dont know if there is really any special thing that desctibes tp. I do know that i have a 100% success rate fixing people with these issues. I never use mental tricks or other voodoo crap to solve a really simple issue. Fixing target panic is a 2 step process.
> 
> Heres my take on Target panic. Target Panic doesnt really exist, basicly it is the symptoms of bad bow fit and set up and improper shot sequence and starting the aim at the wrong time and not keeping the conscious mind busy during the aim. When people come here with "target Panic" symptoms I basicly follow the same guide lines that I do with everybody else that comes to see me for coaching. Target panic is not treated special because its not special, just a combination of problems all balled into one mess and named "Target Panic". Remove the problems and the mess goes away immediately.
> 
> ...


One of the best post ever on the subject of TP!


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Amen


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## bowfisher (Jan 21, 2003)

Blue X said:


> I deal with people with target panic type stuff a lot. I dont know if there is really any special thing that desctibes tp. I do know that i have a 100% success rate fixing people with these issues. I never use mental tricks or other voodoo crap to solve a really simple issue. Fixing target panic is a 2 step process.
> 
> Heres my take on Target panic. Target Panic doesnt really exist, basicly it is the symptoms of bad bow fit and set up and improper shot sequence and starting the aim at the wrong time and not keeping the conscious mind busy during the aim. When people come here with "target Panic" symptoms I basicly follow the same guide lines that I do with everybody else that comes to see me for coaching. Target panic is not treated special because its not special, just a combination of problems all balled into one mess and named "Target Panic". Remove the problems and the mess goes away immediately.
> 
> ...


:thumbs_up


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Blue X said:


> I deal with people with target panic type stuff a lot. I dont know if there is really any special thing that desctibes tp. I do know that i have a 100% success rate fixing people with these issues. I never use mental tricks or other voodoo crap to solve a really simple issue. Fixing target panic is a 2 step process.
> 
> Heres my take on Target panic. Target Panic doesnt really exist, basicly it is the symptoms of bad bow fit and set up and improper shot sequence and starting the aim at the wrong time and not keeping the conscious mind busy during the aim. When people come here with "target Panic" symptoms I basicly follow the same guide lines that I do with everybody else that comes to see me for coaching. Target panic is not treated special because its not special, just a combination of problems all balled into one mess and named "Target Panic". Remove the problems and the mess goes away immediately.
> 
> ...


Very well written and spot on! (pun intended). What never ceases to amaze me is that the people supposedly wanting to improve their skills raise all kinds of h$$l because the cost of a two-day seminar with a top CERTIFIED instructor/coach, is $200 per person. They proclaim that this is a ridiculously HIGH fee to pay. Those same people however will invest $400 plus for a set of stabilizers that likely won't help them one iota and adds only three more things to fiddle with and change around; making the maze even tougher. They'll spend $200 per copy of different release aids to "cure" what ails them; that is normally to no avail. But they won't spend the money for a two-day seminar that is only $200.
What is worse, is that when there are certified coaches available for one-on-one sessions, they won't go there either because it is "too expensive", so they go out and buy the next band-aid to come along and continue to make 4, 5, 6 or more changes all at the same time and remain clueless as to the root cause of the problem(s). Archers are tight-wads, like that, however; always have been and always will be.
Anything "new" needs to be purchased right now (even it it isn't new at all); the latest hype needs to be bought right now. The the age old thing of hiring a certified coach? Not much of a chance there; costs too much.
Shooters are their own worst enemies. Archers, however, have upped the level of their expertise by making good, solid decisions as to where to spend their archery budgets and how to spend it.
field14 (tom D.)


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

field14 said:


> Very well written and spot on! (pun intended). What never ceases to amaze me is that the people supposedly wanting to improve their skills raise all kinds of h$$l because the cost of a two-day seminar with a top CERTIFIED instructor/coach, is $200 per person. They proclaim that this is a ridiculously HIGH fee to pay. Those same people however will invest $400 plus for a set of stabilizers that likely won't help them one iota and adds only three more things to fiddle with and change around; making the maze even tougher. They'll spend $200 per copy of different release aids to "cure" what ails them; that is normally to no avail. But they won't spend the money for a two-day seminar that is only $200.
> What is worse, is that when there are certified coaches available for one-on-one sessions, they won't go there either because it is "too expensive", so they go out and buy the next band-aid to come along and continue to make 4, 5, 6 or more changes all at the same time and remain clueless as to the root cause of the problem(s) (tom D.)


With all due respect, the "cure" for this non existent disease that so many people talk about is free. It's called mental discipline.  You can be using a piece of broom stick with a bent nail and a piece of paracord for a release and be better off than with a $200 "hinge." Sure, there are tricks, blank baling, the ten yard game, etc, etc........but all it takes is commitment. That's free. Period.


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Although equipment is not the cure for tp it is a mental issue having no trigger and ingraining the release cycle is key . I have seen folks give up the sport due to real bonified tp they could have cured if not for stubborness


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