# Recurve bow string material



## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

BCY-X

Can't say that it performs better. I just prefer the shot feel of the Dyneema/Vectran blends.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

8190 for me. It has the best fell and lack of stretch and the planets align and arrows are guided to the target by angles. 

The real reason is that the first Olympic bow I bought this go around came with a 8190 string. It worked well. I just stuck with it.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

BCY D97. The newer materials are no better for recurve and cost more for no additional benefit that I know of at the target (I could be wrong). 

The only Dyneema based material I'd recommend *not* using is 452X or any other compound-specific material with a lot of Vectran in it. The bow will shoot ok, but it'll be very harsh and loud on the shot and might even lead to eventual damage on the limb tips....

lee.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I've gone through a variety of modern materials (8125, 8190, Rhino, 452x, XS2, FF+) I prefer non-blends because of the fuzz from Vectran and of those non-blended material I keep coming back to FF+ since I like the feel and I dislike how much wax BCY ships on the strings. If I'm paying by weight I'd rather not lose 25% after building.
However build quality matters more than material and I don't do skinny strings.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Angel Dyneema



Chris


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Bender said:


> BCY-X
> 
> Can't say that it performs better. I just prefer the shot feel of the Dyneema/Vectran blends.


Isnt that a compound string material?


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

chrstphr said:


> Angel Dyneema
> 
> 
> 
> Chris


This is what I have settled on

Paul


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

rjbishop said:


> Isnt that a compound string material?


It is, but I agree with Bender that it works surprisingly well for recurve even tho it's a blend with Vectran in it. I've made a couple of recurve strings out of it and it gives a very quiet shot and doesn't seem to do any harm to the bows I've used it on. But as I said, it's expensive. And something like the original FastFlite or a similar like D97 works just as well at a lower cost....

lee.


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

BCY-X99.

It's the only material I'll make olympic recurve strings from. Soft shot and incredibly stable. Angel777 is another nice material, but it had too much creep in it for my taste.


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

8125, but I'm running out, and 8125G has proved a good alternative.

I had a spool of FF+, but it was very soft and difficult to work with.

I won't touch vectran blends. Hoyt, W&W and Border all recommend avoiding them for recurve. I'm not sure about other bowyers.


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

This was at 70 meters today. I still have to do brace height and plunger tuning. Right now I'm at 23cm and middle of the plunger at medium spring and have just been using weight and nocking point to eek the two closer together.

I've been using vectran blends on hoyt, w&w, and border limbs for years without issue, but I respect your opinion. I'm also shooting around 50 lbs and have been for years.

I'd never use 452x, but I'm not seeing vectran blends do any harm to anyone who has shot my strings. So far... *fingers crossed*


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

BCY D97 has been great for us...haven't seen a need to change or try anything else to date.


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## 74f100 (Sep 17, 2017)

8190 was on sale at lancaster, so I've been using it. A highly respected archer told me to use d97, and it was fine also. I just dont care for a pink string


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## Fixgenset (Mar 22, 2013)

I like 452x very stable and shoots in very quickly. FF+ is faster but it continues to stretch making it not my first choice for material. I like a material that can be shot hundreds of times and not lose brace height.


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## arrowchucker222 (Jun 17, 2013)

BCY-X. I just like the shot feel. It’s like a steel cable. Zero stretching ever.
Arrowchucker


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## beleg2 (Dec 31, 2005)

D97 for me.


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## bluedevil49 (Jun 22, 2012)

Angel 777. Angel Majesty was recommended, but 777 happened to be on sale so I gave it a shot. No real preference either way. I made and shot strings made with 8125G for a while.


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## 65690 (Jan 21, 2007)

Fastflight. Never experienced undo stretch or unraveling. Easy to find. Too many other variables to deal with for a good tune-


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## DNez2001 (Sep 3, 2017)

Angel Majesty. Champion Custom Bowstrings makes mine... www.recurves.com

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Celeriter (Mar 20, 2016)

Angel Majesty. Really like how no string wax is needed to bind the strands together. Some loop some serving on the string and pull it down. It looks like new.


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

Thanks all I read / here some where a lot of Korean archers are using Fast Flight & got me wondering I have only used 8125(g)


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

D97 here.


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## gdrudd13 (Feb 16, 2016)

BCY-X for me. Although I also use 8125G, but lately just BCY-X.


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## LaurieC (Feb 27, 2017)

D97 and BCY-X for me.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Robert43 said:


> Thanks all I read / here some where a lot of Korean archers are using Fast Flight & got me wondering I have only used 8125(g)


They use FastFlight Plus. Fast Flight is an older string material that came out in the 1980's. 

If i remember correctly, Fast Flight plus is a Dyneema string. 

Chris


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Fast Flight was the first Dyneema string, I forget what grade. Then FF+ is a later Dyneema string string of a higher grade.

The original FF was pioneered by Roger Browne while he was with Brownell. Due to a falling out with the powers that be he left Brownell and then went on to found his own company, BCY.


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

Bender said:


> Fast Flight was the first Dyneema string, I forget what grade. Then FF+ is a later Dyneema string string of a higher grade.
> 
> The original FF was pioneered by Roger Browne while he was with Brownell. Due to a falling out with the powers that be he left Brownell and then went on to found his own company, BCY.


Never knew that about how BCY came about learn something every day


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

Have used 8125g for quite some time. Once it's settled it has never stretched for me and I've found it has quite good longevity.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Robert43 said:


> Never knew that about how BCY came about learn something every day


Yeah, I am kinda into bowstrings and the materials used to make them. After all, there are only two places where the shooter actually physically interacts with the bow, the grip, aaannnddd,...the bowstring!  

It has been said that building a bowstring..." isn't rocket science..." and that "...bowstrings are like toasters..." I see how a person could feel that way. Right up until they get a poorly made string that is!


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## Bow Rider (Jan 16, 2015)

Bender said:


> Yeah, I am kinda into bowstrings and the materials used to make them. After all, there are only two places where the shooter actually physically interacts with the bow, the grip, aaannnddd,...the bowstring!
> 
> It has been said that building a bowstring..." isn't rocket science..." and that "...bowstrings are like toasters..." I see how a person could feel that way. Right up until they get a poorly made string that is!


Yup, dacron is its own beast, but most dyneema materials perform about the same with the same build quality. Higher grade dyneema is thinner strands and a higher strand count, so the appearance is better but performance might be unnoticeable unless you are really that good. Regarding toasters: you can get a $10 toaster or a $60 toaster. Both will toast your bread, but one will last longer and be more consistent than the other. I think we agree on this.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

regarding the rocket science in bowstrings, it doesn't really get to the Phd. level until you start making compound cables. Where the lengths have to be within 1/16", the cam servings go around tight teeny little corners and the main string can't give peep rotation once it gets on the bow and so on. 

On the recurve or longbow it's not nearly so critical and the materials used, especially serving, don't have to be the super expensive made-just-right type of stuff. And you don't even need a very complicated jig - they can be DIY'ed easily with parts from the hardware store. That simplicity with the string is one of the recurve/longbow's huge advantages over the compound. Significantly less time sitting at the jig and more time shooting..... Yes you still have to make the string right, but you only have to make one at a time and it doesn't cost pawning the wife, kids and family cat to get the jig and materials.....

lee.


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

Lee, I don't think I have nearly the experience and time invested in strings that you do, but I do think that it's very important that recurve archers get strings of the highest caliber they can. A recurve bow can be almost as accurate in the hands of an experienced and dedicated archer as a compound.  

One of the things that was paramount for me, as an archer, was limiting or eradicating brace height change. Losing 1/8" cm brace during a match is going to affect your scores at 70 meters.

So, no, I don't think a recurve archer should expect that compound strings should be of a higher caliber than recurve strings. Not if they want to expect to shoot anything like a compound archer.

Maybe it's a different outlook, certainly more expensive to manufacture. But, for me, I'm not looking for okay. I wanted a little more than that.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

DarkLightStar said:


> Lee, I don't think I have nearly the experience and time invested in strings that you do, but I do think that it's very important that recurve archers get strings of the highest caliber they can. A recurve bow can be almost as accurate in the hands of an experienced and dedicated archer as a compound.
> 
> One of the things that was paramount for me, as an archer, was limiting or eradicating brace height change. Losing 1/8" cm brace during a match is going to affect your scores at 70 meters.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to suggest that; if I did, I stand corrected. You're of course absolutely right..... But there are important differences between compound and recurve strings that warrent more attention on one than might be needed on the other. For example, a buss cable on a hybrid cam compound bow must use a particular quality level of serving on the "control" end and be applied carefully or you'll get serving separation and premature deterioration of the cable. Similarly for center servings, where d-loops are used rather than fingers; the center serving needs to be a high quality material applied tightly on a very taught string to prevent problems.
The twist rate has to be very well controlled on anything you sell to a paying customer too, as well as exacting lengths. String clamps basically must be used when serving compound main strings in order to prevent later problems with peep rotation and so on....

These kinds of controls and extra material expenditures are just overkill even on the highest quality recurve strings. Low/no creep recurve strings that give no serving problems can be made with not-as-expensive servings and construction methods and so on. That doesn't mean recurve strings need to be any less in terms of QC and construction and etc.....

But otherwise, I totally agree with you....

lee.


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

You've helped me out with string-making and been a wonderful source of advice, so....it was very hard to type that, Lee. 

There is a reason why elite-level archers frequently learn to build their own strings. Twist-rate and so many other things start factoring in at higher levels. Too many twists in a string and it starts to self-destruct from erosion. Too few and it blooms like a parachute upon release. Too many and it coils like a snake upon release.

That sort of thing.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

For recurve yes, but for compound the argument could be made that making your own strings can actually lower your scores.... John Dudley has made that charge and based on how much time I spend at my jig and not shooting, well..... 

Lee


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

Lol. 

Oh, I'm starting to understand. I'm not complaining, but it takes a while. You warned me.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

PS: back to the topic, I recall this am that I've also used 8125G for recurve strings, though I have to say they were the loudest of all the ones I've made. It works very well, no creep and easy to work with, lasts forever, etc., but I don't have an explanation for why they made my bow so loud - I suspect the GORE material in it perhaps....

lee.


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## Samkill12 (Sep 14, 2018)

Bcy-x


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## 150Archer99 (Aug 15, 2017)

Used 8125 and 8125G until I had a couple of risers crack. Talked to the bowyer and he recommended that I use FF+and a lower strand count. He said many strings are over built and as a result have zero stretch. Not too much of a problem by itself but I was running lower arrow weights, high brace heights and an over built string (too many strands and the wrong material) Everything was within his recommended range but the combination was too much for the bow.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

150Archer99 said:


> Used 8125 and 8125G until I had a couple of risers crack. Talked to the bowyer and he recommended that I use FF+and a lower strand count. He said many strings are over built and as a result have zero stretch. Not too much of a problem by itself but I was running lower arrow weights, high brace heights and an over built string (too many strands and the wrong material) Everything was within his recommended range but the combination was too much for the bow.


Use 8190 and build the recurve bowstring with a high twist rate (each twist about 1-inch long, so LOTS of twists to get to final finished string length). 8190 is "springier" bowstring material, resulting in a very "SOFT" shot. Need to budget enough time on the stretcher to get all the of "stretch" out of the 8190 material, so your brace height stays dead consistent. I always build the strand count for a bowstring, to get the perfect "nock fit" so, no such thing as an "over-built" string, if you dial in the nock fit on the center serving down to the 0.001-inch. You can use a thicker center serving thread, and less strands in the string bundle to arrive at the correct "nock fit", or go to a thinner center serving thread and compensate with more strands in the string bundle. More twists in the finished string build, makes your bowstring "more springy", more "cushy".


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

DarkLightStar said:


> You've helped me out with string-making and been a wonderful source of advice, so....it was very hard to type that, Lee.
> 
> There is a reason why elite-level archers frequently learn to build their own strings. Twist-rate and so many other things start factoring in at higher levels. Too many twists in a string and it starts to self-destruct from erosion. Too few and it blooms like a parachute upon release. Too many and it coils like a snake upon release.
> 
> That sort of thing.


A high quality recurve bowstring is worth points. I build my recurve strings with the same care that I build compound strings. Zero rotation from low tension to high tension back to low tenion. I use string clamps, serve at 300+ lbs of tension, DEAD even strand tension for each strand in the string bundle. A "proper" recurve bowstring, after you burnish, will look like a stranded stainless steel wire. DEAD even outside diameter throughout the entire length of the RECURVE bowstring. The center serving outside diameter is dialed into the 0.0010 inch (lab calibrated Mitutoyo digital caliper). Yup, I teach all of my advanced recurve students, how to build their own strings, cuz this is a necessary skill. Then they can experiment with twist rate, with recurve bowstring length, can experiment with nock fit, by varying the outside diameter on the center serving...by several thousandths. A really HIGH quality recurve bowstring, will also "TUNE" at a single harmonic, when you pluck...a clean, single note. If you can hear a double note when you pluck your recurve bowstring, then, chuck it and build another one, cuz a "double note" means you have unequal strand tension in the string bundle.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Agree with Alan and I make my recurve strings using compound QC and techniques too to the best of my current ability at this time.

But, that said, I'd bet a critic of that approach (which wouldn't necessarily be me) could come along and challenge us in, say, the following manner:
- I don't have a stretching jig setup for compound; can't afford it right now. Instead I have only a DIY 4 post layup jig made from parts from Ace hardware on a piece of unichannel bolted to my workbench and a DIY stretcher made out of bookend angle brackets, a couple pieces of 2x4 and some potted plant hangars from the same Ace hardware.
- I do my layup with 18 strands of D97 and the same QC as a compound layup, but I use, say, BCY 3D or even 2S to do my end servings, not Halo or other more expensive material we use on compound.
- I do my initial stretch and twist to length at 100-150 lbs, not 300, because my stretcher is far too barebones to handle that kind of tension.
- My twist rate is between 1 1/2" or even 2", partly for knock-fit reasons and partly depending on how much I might expect to have to adjust my brace height later.
- I do my finishing servings with 3D also or even the same 2S material, with the string at 150 lbs, but no string clamps (because of the proximity to the loops).
- Center serving is done with Halo or 62XS or even 3D. Ok, yeah I'll throw in the DIY string clamps too to make sure it gets on there tight. At only 150lbs tension the string really does turn a bunch under a tight serving jig.....
- Once on the bow, if I put the bottom limb next to my foot and the top limb against the palm of my hand (to reduce warbling from the limbs), I still get a good bass guitar tone out of the string when plucked.

Now, take this string I just made and prove to me that my scores will be worse than if I use a string made with full compound QC and materials (better serving, higher twist rate, higher poundage on the stretch and serving applications, etc).

Again, that wouldn't be me because I have the equipment to make my recurve strings as close to a compound standard as I can, but we can imagine a fellow like this giving us some trouble with a challenge like that.... It could happen, tho it likely won't....

Don't ask me who made recurve strings like this for a while and shot em too but didn't see much trouble out of them, but *won't* actually issue any such challenge for the sake of the sanity of the forum... 

lee.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

nuts&bolts said:


> If you can hear a double note when you pluck your recurve bowstring, then, chuck it and build another one, cuz a "double note" means you have unequal strand tension in the string bundle.


Dead serious question here. NOT being contentious.

What do you mean by "double note"? Are you referring to when two slightly different frequencies of sound mesh and as they cycle through reinforcing then canceling each other the sound produced has a regular "beat" to it as intensity gets stronger and weaker over and over?

Also how did you figure out that it was unequal strand tension causing the "double note" phenomena? I mean after all there is a lot of stuff that contributes to the sound created when the string is plucked.

This is important to me as I make my own strings and I do have to sometimes just toss the whole mess and start over due to finding a wayward strand.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Bender said:


> Dead serious question here. NOT being contentious.
> 
> What do you mean by "double note"? Are you referring to when two slightly different frequencies of sound mesh and as they cycle through reinforcing then canceling each other the sound produced has a regular "beat" to it as intensity gets stronger and weaker over and over?
> 
> ...


I can answer that. Don't ask me why. With the string actually on the bow, even a well made string has a 97% chance of giving the warbling, dual-but-very-close-in-frequency, "boioioing" sound when plucked. The very slight variations between the limbs in terms of weight and tension will be the cause of it.

To control for that, you can "damp" the limb tips by placing the bottom tip against your foot, and lightly grasping the top limb with a hand. Take all the stabs and the sight off off the handle and lock down the sight fitment screw. Then pluck the string; you should get the "thump" with a steady pure bass tone.

You can also just pluck it under tension on the jig.

That said, the layup has to have been very poorly done for the finished string to warble on its own on a fully damped mounting like a very strong stretcher under 100lbs, say, of tension. If the strand tension is off only a little it'll still give a good tone. Even if it has a very slow (1 to 2hz) warble it's still ok. Yes, that's catastrophic on a compound main string, but on the recurve bow the string will still be quite shootable. Again, only if the tension is a little uneven and not just way way uneven.....

lee.


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