# Pin bushings -vs- regular bushings



## mainehunt (Sep 11, 2006)

I have some X-Ringer HV v1s for 3D arrows. They came with pin bushings and pin nocks and I also have some Easton super nock bushings and Bohning double lock nocks.

Which would you use and why?


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## MiniJCW (Apr 27, 2014)

I would use the pins if it was me. I have used bushings in the past on some arrows and they did not hold up as well when the groups get really tight and arrows start to get knocked about at competitions. I also found with bushings i needed to carry a small screw in my quiver to aid in the removal of the leftover nock that always stuck in the bushing after it got smashed. I had an arrow get shot in the centre of the bushing and it was hit hard enough to push the point of the arrow into my bushing and split the rear of my shaft. arrow needed to go into retirement.

Pins i never ever glue them in if need be i would use a bit off a plastic bag to get them to fit in securely if the tolerances are not as tight as desired. I have found pins to hold up really well and just replace nocks as needed, If they get whacked right in the centre they are better at deflecting the offending arrow away and saving my arrow shafts.

This is just from my experience only.


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## mainehunt (Sep 11, 2006)

MiniJCW said:


> I would use the pins if it was me. I have used bushings in the past on some arrows and they did not hold up as well when the groups get really tight and arrows start to get knocked about at competitions. I also found with bushings i needed to carry a small screw in my quiver to aid in the removal of the leftover nock that always stuck in the bushing after it got smashed. I had an arrow get shot in the centre of the bushing and it was hit hard enough to push the point of the arrow into my bushing and split the rear of my shaft. arrow needed to go into retirement.
> 
> Pins i never ever glue them in if need be i would use a bit off a plastic bag to get them to fit in securely if the tolerances are not as tight as desired. I have found pins to hold up really well and just replace nocks as needed, If they get whacked right in the centre they are better at deflecting the offending arrow away and saving my arrow shafts.
> 
> This is just from my experience only.


Did you never glue the regular bushings also?


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## 3SixtyOutdoors (Sep 14, 2012)

I never glue bushings just used a plastic bag shim works great.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

I would use the regular bushing. They will protect the arrow 95% of the time without being damaged. When a pin gets hit, it often bends and either needs to be straightened or replaced. If you don't know it's bent, you have a problem. I'd rather have to deal with a very rare robin hood compared to a very commonly bent pin bushing.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

When I first got into asa 4 years ago pin nocks were pretty standard but they are vanishing because guys are finding out the a g-nock bushing with easton g-nocks or deep six nocks or boning x nocks are just better. 

The easton g-nock is proving to just my top choice because it is basically a install it one time and it lasts the life of the arrow unless it gets hit dead on and needs replaced. I shoot in a very strong 3d group and we get banged all the time and I just don't have issues and I have never had a deep six nock fail for no reason. It takes a robin hood quality bang job to hurt them.

I will say that the new g-nock bushings by gold tip are better than the shrewd bushings.

Now you can't go without mentioning the gold tip acculite nocks and bushings also and I know many people really like them, I personally like the deep six ones better but I think either of them get the job done.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

mainehunt said:


> I have some X-Ringer HV v1s for 3D arrows. They came with pin bushings and pin nocks and I also have some Easton super nock bushings and Bohning double lock nocks.
> 
> Which would you use and why?


More personal preference than anything. I don't think I've seen a report or write up where a standard nock, pin nock or G nock was any more accurate than the other. Protection wise, pin nock bushings and G nock bushings give the best. Even CE Bulldog collars provide protection.

I have standard nocks for my hunting arrows and some of my old target CXL 250s. My target arrows all have pin nocks and bushings.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

I've migrated from pin nocks to bushings and accu-lite nocks. Lots of bent pins and ran the whole gamut of "which pin nock is the best." Between pin nocks and bent pins and shaft compression failures due to big heavy pin nock bushings and one center punched bushing, I'm still ahead money wise with bushings and accu-lites.

Also, i haven't had good luck with pins and hard cams above 55lbs of draw weight. The pin nocks don't seem to be able to take that load and things get exciting with nocks that break on release.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Rick! I am with you, I shot 18 gold tip x cutters last season and early this season in over 40 local and national tournaments and all of the tens of thousands of practice shots that I did and finally in January just a couple months ago I had one of them get bashed and I split out a shaft. I have been hundreds of times and had bushings that had to be replaced because they just looked freaking pathetic but I only lost one shaft due to a rear impact. 

When you shoot with a guy that is still holding on to his pin nocks you will see a guy that is constantly messing with them and checking them and babying them and replacing them and griping that another pin is bent or a bent pin cost him a bad shot or two and the amount of high maintenance with them is just not worth it. 

The deep six nocks really are a install and forget type of nock, sure when you get banged you need to look them over but for the most part they are good for the life of the shaft.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Pins for my ACGs cost a about $1. If I bust a nock, I replace the pin too. A little over $2, and I saved a $20 shaft. Of course I don't think bushings are even an option for the skinny arrows. If I shot fat 3D arrows, I'm pretty sure I'd do the same.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cbrunson said:


> Pins for my ACGs cost a about $1. If I bust a nock, I replace the pin too. A little over $2, and I saved a $20 shaft. Of course I don't think bushings are even an option for the skinny arrows. If I shot fat 3D arrows, I'm pretty sure I'd do the same.


How skinny? CE has pin nock adaptors for Nano Pro, Nano SST, Nano XR and Medallion XR. Tiny suckers...


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## mainehunt (Sep 11, 2006)

I like all this advice, please give me more.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Rick! said:


> Also, i haven't had good luck with pins and hard cams above 55lbs of draw weight. The pin nocks don't seem to be able to take that load and things get exciting with nocks that break on release.


Heard of it, but I've never seen it. I think some company had a bad run of pin nocks, but that was a ways back. I think they were too tight. Pin nocks should press on, not forced on.

If someone here is using pin nocks I'd let some go. I have 200 plus in white or black. 13 to a bag, $4 per bag plus shipping / main land 48.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> How skinny? CE has pin nock adaptors for Nano Pro, Nano SST, Nano XR and Medallion XR. Tiny suckers...


I use Easton pin bushings and nocks


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

It's interesting this came up today, because I've had two phone conversations with a manufacturer about this very topic earlier today. While their opinion is; the most inaccurate system is the pin bushing with a pin nock I don't find that to always be the case. If you have an arrow with a pin insert and a pin nock that is dialed in, how can it get more accurate than hitting precisely where it's pointed? 

In my opinion what it boils down to is this, just like everything in archery, the right tool for the right job, and that varies depending on the venue, shaft dia, and single spot vs multi spot.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Lazarus said:


> It's interesting this came up today, because I've had two phone conversations with a manufacturer about this very topic earlier today. While their opinion is; the most inaccurate system is the pin bushing with a pin nock I don't find that to always be the case. If you have an arrow with a pin insert and a pin nock that is dialed in, how can it get more accurate than hitting precisely where it's pointed?
> 
> In my opinion what it boils down to is this, just like everything in archery, the right tool for the right job, and that varies depending on the venue, shaft dia, and single spot vs multi spot.


Already noted, I use pin nocks and bushings and I don't have a problem, so I agree with you.

Take it from the start; Bushing goes in shaft and held by either press fit, gluing or press fit with use of thin plastic bags.
Press fit by itself I see little issue.
Press fit with use of plastic bag material could present some sort of miss alignment as in more on one side than the other.
The same could be said of gluing a pin bushing, more on one side than the other.
Aluminum pin bushings are soft, but I don't think springy. Still the pin is sort of far out and then add the nock. So possible "bend" at the shot?

Different manners of making a pin bushing. Some are uniform for shank going into the arrow shaft. Some are that there is some tiny bit of press fit near the flange. I haven't found this to give issue. I don't use G nock bushings so I don't know how they are made.

On the market are titanium pin bushings. Shown in one advertisement the pin of the bushing mutilated, ugly. Still, it was straight, said mutilation polished and shown with a new pin nock. No price is given, but I would guess substantial. 

Pin nocks. There are quite a few. The CE Soma, Cartel and Beiter pin nocks bother me, not that they aren't good.
Can't remember when, 5 years ago?, but Bohning made a change for the better. I ran with the person that suggested the change, so he says. So he got a bunch and I got a bunch from him. No issues. Supposedly Bohning made another change and it seems not for the good and Bohning quickly made another change. This was brought up in General Archery Discussion some months ago. The new pin nock was pictured and seems every bit the "good nock" suggested by my friend. I copied the picture of the new nock and pictured it with the nocks I have. They look identical..... See down for my pic....
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2429133


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## 1miss (Jun 7, 2005)

You guys have convinced me, so what size bushing do I need for X-Jammer 27 pro??


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## JF from VA (Dec 5, 2002)

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shrewd-carbon-express-x-jammer-27-nock-bushing.html


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

One of the things that I find funny is that guys with pin bushings will tell you that replacing a pin nock is so much easier and quicker than a bushing and g-nock but I beg to differ because I carry a few bushing with nocks already installed and all I have to do is pull out the old bushing and insert a new one. I have a few pieces of either walmart plastic bags or some 3/4 inch plumbers tape already cut so that I can in seconds pull out my old bushing and insert a new one. Done.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Padgett said:


> One of the things that I find funny is that guys with pin bushings will tell you that replacing a pin nock is so much easier and quicker than a bushing and g-nock but I beg to differ because I carry a few bushing with nocks already installed and all I have to do is pull out the old bushing and insert a new one. I have a few pieces of either walmart plastic bags or some 3/4 inch plumbers tape already cut so that I can in seconds pull out my old bushing and insert a new one. Done.


No different than pin bushings. Can do the exact same thing.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Padgett said:


> One of the things that I find funny is that guys with pin bushings will tell you that replacing a pin nock is so much easier and quicker than a bushing and g-nock but I beg to differ because I carry a few bushing with nocks already installed and all I have to do is pull out the old bushing and insert a new one. I have a few pieces of either walmart plastic bags or some 3/4 inch plumbers tape already cut so that I can in seconds pull out my old bushing and insert a new one. Done.


I’d say it’s the same other than the fact that I have destroyed shafts with bushings. I have not destroyed shafts with pins. If the pin gets hit, I replace the pin and the nock. They’re cheap.


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## glennx (Oct 7, 2006)

I've broke many shafts using pins.A good hit in the rear and the arrow will crack. I went to bushings. Too many pins would bend with a slight hit on the edge.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Cbrunson, I totally agree that most good shooters carry spare pin bushings and just replace them but it is funny that guys totally forget that simple method when choosing to shoot g-nock bushings and they feel like they are stuck with a broken arrow and no solution when you could totally just carry some spares just like a pin bushing shooter.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I can remember when I stopped using pin nocks on my 3d arrows for a variety of reasons and I actually got a dozen arrows for indoor right after 3d season and they came with pin nocks, they were x jammers and I decided that I would just shoot the pin nocks because I was only shooting 5-spot and one arrow per spot and the pin nocks would work perfectly for that. 

You know they did work but all freaking winter I had to inspect them every freaking day and during my shooting and replace them from time to time and order some more of them from time to time and the constant freaking time spent checking them finally got to me and I was sick of it. That is my problem with pin nocks is that you have to accept them for what they are and constantly check and replace and keep them fresh.

Since moving over to g-nock bushings i have shot them exclusively for over 3 years maybe 4 years and I have never had a easton g-nock or deep six nock fail for no reason, i have never replaced one of them because it started to spread or crack or anything and I am shooting tens of thousands of shots per year and getting banged in targets all the freaking time. Basically I install a deep six nock and it is in the arrow for the life of the arrow no questions asked. The only time i replace them is when I get hit dead on and the nock is damaged by another arrow. 

I will say that I wish I had some time spent with the gold tip acculite nocks because I see and hear for way to many good shooters that they are a really solid choice but I just haven't.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Padgett said:


> Cbrunson, I totally agree that most good shooters carry spare pin bushings and just replace them but it is funny that guys totally forget that simple method when choosing to shoot g-nock bushings and they feel like they are stuck with a broken arrow and no solution when you could totally just carry some spares just like a pin bushing shooter.


Another thing is with a quiver full of arrows, I'll often just grab a fresh one and fix the busted one later.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Lazarus said:


> It's interesting this came up today, because I've had two phone conversations with a manufacturer about this very topic earlier today. While their opinion is; the most inaccurate system is the pin bushing with a pin nock I don't find that to always be the case. If you have an arrow with a pin insert and a pin nock that is dialed in, how can it get more accurate than hitting precisely where it's pointed?
> 
> In my opinion what it boils down to is this, just like everything in archery, the right tool for the right job, and that varies depending on the venue, shaft dia, and single spot vs multi spot.





Padgett said:


> I can remember when I stopped using pin nocks on my 3d arrows for a variety of reasons and I actually got a dozen arrows for indoor right after 3d season and they came with pin nocks, they were x jammers and I decided that I would just shoot the pin nocks because I was only shooting 5-spot and one arrow per spot and the pin nocks would work perfectly for that.
> 
> You know they did work but all freaking winter I had to inspect them every freaking day and during my shooting and replace them from time to time and order some more of them from time to time and the constant freaking time spent checking them finally got to me and I was sick of it. That is my problem with pin nocks is that you have to accept them for what they are and constantly check and replace and keep them fresh.
> 
> ...


I've shot thousands of times using pin nocks and never was there a time I worried of alignment issues or breakage except for multiple shots and hearing a "slap." Like any arrow slapped inspection served well. I still feel nocks are personal preference and Lazrus's reply well fits; "In my opinion what it boils down to is this, just like everything in archery, the right tool for the right job, and that varies depending on the venue, shaft dia, and single spot vs multi spot."


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## 1miss (Jun 7, 2005)

Would an Easton 2514 uni-bushing fit the XJammer 27 pro? The ID of that arrow is .378, correct?


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## dunmoab (Apr 4, 2013)

Indoor-outdoor......several different ...apples to oranges things. I shoot bushings in door as and pins outdoors. Pins are more durable and not noticeably inaccurate. I have not noticed any difference inaccuracy between the two. The pi s just take more abuse when "grouping" or shooting field of FITA type events. I (and believe me I'm not bragging) did at least 18-20 "robin hoods". Shooting all ranges out to 80yds. With witnesses before pi s and not one since. Only one ruined arrow(side it). With no noticeable reduction in accuracy.........think what you will...I'll be more than happy to back up anything mentioned above......pins are just more durable. That's all


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

I think this might be the same as the Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge question. Probably boils down to personal preference more than anything else. I just like the G type nock and find the clear ones easiest to inspect for say perhaps noticing a crack in it. I have not had good luck with some of the pin nocks and don't feel they are as durable as the G type nock. Just my .02


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

I like g type nock over pin nocks


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I had trouble with pin nocks splitting.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

carlosii said:


> I had trouble with pin nocks splitting.


That was brought up a few posts back. Haven't heard of the problem of late


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I remember back in 2009 and 2010 when I decided to step up in my equipment and shoot pin nocks and even then there were guys that raved about pin nocks and how awesome they were and that there were no issues. What I learned about pin nock guys back then was that they accepted pin nocks for what they are mentally and they just spend tons of time managing them with constant inspections and replacing the nocks all the time and ignoring the issues that forced them to do so. So I spent my two years trying to find pin nocks that I could feel comfy with and after getting tired of the constant inspections and paying for a bunch more replacement nocks all the time I moved on.

You can see the transformation on the asa 3d courses because when I started shooting them there were pin nocks laying on the shooting lanes all over the place and some guys even collected them which I always thought was weird but they have basically vanished on the ground because the majority of shooters have moved on.


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

I converted over to bushings and G nocks for my BEA carnivores and love them, like the slightly beefier nock. Indoors I use bushing with standard .246 GT nocks and love that combo.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

It is probably somewhat of a preference thing *and* somewhat of a venue thing. Shooting field/standard fita/900 rounds, it is not uncommon for 16-24 arrows to be stacked into a single target. If you're shooting with a good group, most of those arrows are going to be in the dot. Except for the brief time I shot ACEs, I have never had an arrow damaged from a rear-end strike while using pin nocks. 

Yes, I have had nocks shattered and had bushings bent after which I simply retire the suspect arrow(s) to the back of the quiver until the bushing & nock could be replaced. So, for me, with a mere $2 investment per bushing & nock, I've saved countless $30-45 arrows over the years. Also it really does not take any extra time to visually inspect a suspect arrow with pin nocks that should have been looked over anyway as a matter of course... 

But as always in archery, shoot what you wish and spend your money on what you wish...


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

After center punching a GT22 from 50 meters, I may reconsider, again. The aggravating part of it was that both shots were "off" and blown by the wind in the exact same fashion. Can't wait to see if I can robin hood a VAP V1.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Rick! said:


> After center punching a GT22 from 50 meters, I may reconsider, again. The aggravating part of it was that both shots were "off" and blown by the wind in the exact same fashion. Can't wait to see if I can robin hood a VAP V1.


Have you thought about using the GT Ultralight Pros for the 50m rounds? They're skinnier than the 22s, so catch less wind and since they are also lighter, they allow you to really build up the FOC with point weight which the VAPs do not allow--both pluses in open, windy conditions. I just built up a set with 120gr in the nose for my 2 national 900 rounds I'll be shooting later in the year (in the windy Midwest). They are flying very well--even at my low poundage. Yeah, I suppose you can still center punch them, but it would be a lot more difficult to do so.


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## Coug09 (Feb 4, 2007)

I shoot the Gold Tip Pin Bushings and the HD Pin Nocks. They are really tough and I'm not the biggest fan of the standard pin nocks mainly because of the durability of the nock. Everyone talks about bending pins, but I've NEVER had an issue with a bent pin that didn't gouge the pin. Pretty much, the only time I ever see one that's bent is if I hit it directly in the center and it gouged the pin itself and I have broken hundreds of pin nocks. 

I did hear an interesting comment from Tim Gillingham himself in Texas. He was shooting the new GTO nocks and bushings (G-Nock style), mainly because they were new and he wanted to test them. He said he still thinks the HD Pin Nock and bushing is the best nock system you can shoot.. He went thru this demonstration of pushing on the side of the GTO nock and asked if we could tell it was bent, which you couldn't, and he promised us it would impact differently. Ask him about it the next time you see him at an ASA and ask him which nock he truly thinks is best. He will tell you the Acculites are very popular but the HD Pin Nock, in his eyes, is the best and he does plenty of testing. Unless something has changed since the end of April to make him think otherwise

That being said, I have shot the HD's for a few years and I would shoot them even if he said they were garbage. I've tried them all, and I believe in them when everything is on the line. All this being said, my best friend, traveling partner and shooting buddy, shot the Acculites for a long time. He had some inconsistencies with them that went away when he went back to the pin system. He's won two shoots in Semi-Pro in the last couple years, so I'm confident in the shooting ability. The issues were just basically being able to get all of his arrows to hit in one spot. He would have to spend quite a bit of time finding 2 or 3 "tournament" arrows out of the 6 or 8 in his stool. He was shooting them in GT 22 Series Pro's, so it wasn't an arrow issue. Plus, when he put the pin bushings and nocks back in them, they just stacked on top of each other in the target. I just feel like there's more chance of something being off with a push in nock.

I shot the Accu-Lite's in my hunting arrows, without a bushing last year and they shot really well. I usually shoot pins and HD's in them too and will have them in my hunting arrows again this year.


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## Coug09 (Feb 4, 2007)

Rick! said:


> I've migrated from pin nocks to bushings and accu-lite nocks. Lots of bent pins and ran the whole gamut of "which pin nock is the best." Between pin nocks and bent pins and shaft compression failures due to big heavy pin nock bushings and one center punched bushing, I'm still ahead money wise with bushings and accu-lites.
> 
> Also, i haven't had good luck with pins and hard cams above 55lbs of draw weight. The pin nocks don't seem to be able to take that load and things get exciting with nocks that break on release.


This same thing forced me to shoot the HD Pin Nocks over the standard Gold Tip Pin Nocks. When I was still shooting for PSE, my first Dominator Pro ME (30" 60lbs) would spread the standard pin nock. Enter the HD Pin nocks. I wish I had found them MUCH sooner. They're so much more durable and consistent over the standard nock it's unbelievable


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

montigre said:


> Have you thought about using the GT Ultralight Pros for the 50m rounds? They're skinnier than the 22s, so catch less wind and since they are also lighter, they allow you to really build up the FOC with point weight which the VAPs do not allow--both pluses in open, windy conditions. I just built up a set with 120gr in the nose for my 2 national 900 rounds I'll be shooting later in the year (in the windy Midwest). They are flying very well--even at my low poundage. Yeah, I suppose you can still center punch them, but it would be a lot more difficult to do so.


For regulation FITA I will probably get UL Pros next go round. The unofficial FITA coming up is out to 90 meters which is why I got the skinnys. I have learned that Vanetec Swifts will alter POI significantly compared to 5" vanes at 50 meters. I appreciate your help so far and will be asking a few more questions in about a week. To keep on topic, the skinnys have accunocks and no bushings.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

I've been experimenting between the new GTO nocks and GT pins/HD nocks on the GT 22pros. The pins are grouping better, but they're no guarantee to save your arrows. I did this at 45yds last weekend. The arrow that hit the pin hit the pin dead center, went thru the side of the nock and snapped the shaft. Those pins sure are tough.......


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

Bushings for me now....

Used to use pins and pin nocks...Most pin nocks are so thin that the slightest hit or a serving just a hair too big can cause a crack. Can you afford to have a pin nock break even once during a shot?

Pins bend...you may not notice it, but that one arrow never seems to fly right....

Now if you have a quiver full of arrows, more than a dozen I would guess, have at it. For me, I will take a big plastic nock and a bushing any day!

SB


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## Wyotarget (Mar 17, 2013)

I bought all new Easton g nock pins nocks, in 3 shots with my vector turbo they wouldn't stay on the string


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