# IBO Bashing



## jlutz (Jul 23, 2015)

When one speaks badly about the IBO, NFAA or any other type of archery in a public forum, it reflects badly on archery as a whole. Archery is a wonderful, lifelong, family sport and deserves better than the negative output that is constantly on the forum. The IBO puts on well run shoots that are held in some of the most beautiful spots in the country. Finding such venues is not an easy task and the work done in setting up ranges with well placed and interesting shots is tremendous. 3D archery is not spot archery and the walk through the woods to come upon a well placed target is what makes this aspect of the sport so worthwhile. Having all of this set up for us for three days of shooting at the cost of $42 + or - is one of the great deals in all of recreation. I personally like the walk, the exercise, the setting and unknown yardage (the origin of 3D). The other forms of archery are all viable segments and nice to shoot as well. We should all shoot the type of archery that we like, relax, have fun doing it and stop shooting ourselves in the foot (no pun intended).


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## tryinhardarcher (Feb 3, 2006)

If you consider a IBO event well run, I would hate to see what you consider poorly run event.
We had the registration booth send us to the wrong end of the property for our ranges this past Friday.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

jlutz said:


> When one speaks badly about the IBO, NFAA or any other type of archery in a public forum, it reflects badly on archery as a whole. Archery is a wonderful, lifelong, family sport and deserves better than the negative output that is constantly on the forum. The IBO puts on well run shoots that are held in some of the most beautiful spots in the country. Finding such venues is not an easy task and the work done in setting up ranges with well placed and interesting shots is tremendous. 3D archery is not spot archery and the walk through the woods to come upon a well placed target is what makes this aspect of the sport so worthwhile. Having all of this set up for us for three days of shooting at the cost of $42 + or - is one of the great deals in all of recreation. I personally like the walk, the exercise, the setting and unknown yardage (the origin of 3D). The other forms of archery are all viable segments and nice to shoot as well. We should all shoot the type of archery that we like, relax, have fun doing it and stop shooting ourselves in the foot (no pun intended).


To a certain extent you are right. However, to say that frustrated archers are "bashing" is a bit much. No one suggests that the folks that work hard to put on a nice shoot are not doing a great job. What we are a saying is that the structure and leadership of these organizations need to step aside and let energetic and creative people take the reigns. The IBO is shriveling and those that have proven they can't right the ship need to get our of the way!

The fact of the matter is a _significant _number of paying members of the organizations you mentioned are very disappointed with how they are organized and run. Now I guess we could all just stop paying our dues and participating in these organizations events to show our dissatisfaction with their structure and performance. I should note that MANY archers have done exactly that. I quick glance at the IBO's participation number over the last 10 years proves that out. We could say that it's archery in general that is losing number but that would be very wrong. The ASA's number have been steadily increasing at fairly high rate. I haven't even thought about shooting an IBO event in years even though 10+ years ago I expected that is what I would be doing sense the IBO is more convenient. Obviously, I am no longer paying IBO dues that have lost out on 1,000's of dollars from me alone! The vendors that no longer set up at IBO shoots is long....... There are many manufacturers of archery products that no longer even set up a table at IBO Triple Crown tournaments

jlutz, throwing stones at the messengers is not helping any thing other than to let King Cull and the IBO Boss's live in a bubble . Both of the organizations you mentioned could easily be much better with many more members, many more _active_ members and many more satisfied members. Unfortunately, the folks in leadership roles within the organizations you mentioned are more concerned with maintaining their personal positions and relationships within the organizations and the archery industry.

This topic was a hot issue ten or more years ago on AT. People grew tired of the topic and saw the IBO making zero effort to improve so we have simply stopped paying and going to the shoots. In the last 3 years I have met over a dozen guys participating in their very first national ASA shoots that were previously die hard IBO guys. Everyone of them commented that they were now focusing on the ASA.

Since the IBO pretty much has zero competition in a large region with a large number of archers they won't fold up entirely unless a competitor comes onto the scene.

By the way, I also love casual trail shoots but they aren't practical for large numbers of competitive tournament archers and the loss of participants has proven many other feel the same.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> To a certain extent you are right. However, to say that frustrated archers are "bashing" is a bit much. No one suggests that the folks that work hard to put on a nice shoot are not doing a great job. What we are a saying is that the structure and leadership of these organizations need to step aside and let energetic and creative people take the reigns. The IBO is shriveling and those that have proven they can't right the ship need to get our of the way!
> 
> The fact of the matter is a _significant _number of paying members of the organizations you mentioned are very disappointed with how they are organized and run. Now I guess we could all just stop paying our dues and participating in these organizations events to show our dissatisfaction with their structure and performance. I should note that MANY archers have done exactly that. I quick glance at the IBO's participation number over the last 10 years proves that out. We could say that it's archery in general that is losing number but that would be very wrong. The ASA's number have been steadily increasing at fairly high rate. I haven't even thought about shooting an IBO event in years even though 10+ years ago I expected that is what I would be doing sense the IBO is more convenient. Obviously, I am no longer paying IBO dues that have lost out on 1,000's of dollars from me alone! The vendors that no longer set up at IBO shoots is long....... There are many manufacturers of archery products that no longer even set up a table at IBO Triple Crown tournaments
> 
> ...


Well said.
I recall a time when IBO ruled Texas. Now I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find an IBO shoot in that part of the country.


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## 48archer (Mar 19, 2009)

If the IBO is such a well oiled machine why is the attendance so low and why are vendors not showing up?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I really enjoy the IBO shoots. I agree with the OP.

I do say the ASA's are ran better, and I enjoy them just as much.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

If the faults are never pointed out, improvements will never be made. By the same token, if those suggestions fall upon deaf ears, then attendance will shrivel they will just disappear. 

Look at Regions, the potential was there, but all complaints were ignored and now they are dead in the water.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

rattlinman said:


> If the faults are never pointed out, improvements will never be made. By the same token, if those suggestions fall upon deaf ears, then attendance will shrivel they will just disappear.
> 
> Look at Regions, the potential was there, but all complaints were ignored and now they are dead in the water.


Yeah. I think Richard started with a big pile of money and worked at it until it became a small pile of money.

I really hate that they has so many problems, mostly self inflicted.

I still think there's room for an ASA North organization...probably ASA Midwest as well.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

carlosii said:


> Yeah. I think Richard started with a big pile of money and worked at it until it became a small pile of money.
> 
> I really hate that they has so many problems, mostly self inflicted.
> 
> I still think there's room for an ASA North organization...probably ASA Midwest as well.


I know Northern Ohio, western Pa and western New York region could support a "division" ASA series of tournaments. Weather wise you wouldn't be able to start nearly as early in the year as south Ala., GA and Tx. But you could have tournaments in April, May, June, July and there would be one Classic located in the northern Ala to Tenn region.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

carlosii said:


> Yeah. I think Richard started with a big pile of money and worked at it until it became a small pile of money.
> 
> I really hate that they has so many problems, mostly self inflicted.
> 
> I still think there's room for an ASA North organization...probably ASA Midwest as well.


See, I'm giving Richard more credit as a smart business man. Yes, he slowly let Regions bleed out, but I'll bet you his monthly paycheck never bounced. Kinda like a CEO that gets fired when the company is running poorly, but gets a $3.2 million severance check. I guarantee he came out smelling like a rose, which is why he never tried to make any changes to better the organization.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Is Regions dead? I truly haven't followed it, nor have I seen anything about it lately - good or bad


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Garceau said:


> Is Regions dead? I truly haven't followed it, nor have I seen anything about it lately - good or bad


According to Richard they are going to try it again next season


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

treeman65 said:


> According to Richard they are going to try it again next season


Maybe he should try to get some people involved now in planning. Get people who shoot national events on a regular schedule; get people who have experience in putting on major events; get some folks who have expertise in marketing; get some folks who are good at organization, including delegation.

Make an effort to renegotiate with Mike and the folks at ASA.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Its not bashing IBO if its the truth.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

sagecreek said:


> I really enjoy the IBO shoots. I agree with the OP.
> 
> I do say the ASA's are ran better, and I enjoy them just as much.


I ditto this. If IBO doesn't fix things and ASA gives opportunity this far North then I will switch.


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## rancid69 (Dec 29, 2005)

I feel since switching to Pipestem, WV and Bloomington, IN the IBO is taking a step in the right direction. These last 2 years at these locations have ran flawless. I remember the days of Erie, Bedford and Nelsonville. I shot Nelsonville once and swore I would never go back, and I never did. 

Last year the third leg was a complete disaster. They received a bunch of negative feedback and they moved the location this year without hesitation. (which was the first year at this location)

With that being said I feel they are taking steps in the right direction. The courses are setup well with most targets being in and outs. The are close and very doable in one day. I used to hate walking a country mile between targets and it felt like I was there for exercising and not shooting. 

I have never shot an ASA event so I have no basis of comparison. If I had one complaint its that they should have a system to peer group you up. I don't like the walk with your friends to the tent and go out system they have now. I do like the idea of centered 11's better than an off-centered 12's. 

I feel if you have ideas or concerns you might be better off writing an email or calling them directly rather than posting criticisms on a public forum. If you have and they still aren't taking that into consideration then it is what it is. 

I think they are on the right track with Pipestem and Bloomington. I am very interested to see the new location for the third leg. I hear its very nice and the location is accessible. 

And I will continue to go to IBO events because honestly its local and I like shooting.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

I would guess that over the last 20 years I've probably paid 4 grand in membership dues and entry fees. As a dues paying member of the IBO, I'm pretty sure that would allow me to say whatever I'd like about the organization as long as its the truth. As I stated in my first post in that pretty long thread, the IBO is in a death spiral. I'd like nothing more than to see improvements made and an increase in membership and attendance. With that said... if the current leadership continues on the same path its been following then the IBO will continue to falter and eventually fail.


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## Mathew Lyman (Feb 25, 2017)

K is "hard to see the spot" spot archery. NFAA field and hunter field is a walk through the woods with spots you can see without having to study the target with your bino's for 5 minutes. Unknown is 3D. The only issue with IBO is not having a shotgun start. ASA is Disneyland, the scoring setup is irrational as the liberal guests on Tucker Carlson's show.


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

> I feel since switching to Pipestem, WV and Bloomington, IN the IBO is taking a step in the right direction.


Bloomington was great, except the ticks. I will have better spray this year. LOL


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Mathew Lyman said:


> K is "hard to see the spot" spot archery. NFAA field and hunter field is a walk through the woods with spots you can see without having to study the target with your bino's for 5 minutes. Unknown is 3D. The only issue with IBO is not having a shotgun start. ASA is Disneyland, the scoring setup is irrational as the liberal guests on Tucker Carlson's show.


:thumbs_do:asleep::asleep:t::lalala::lalala:


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## UncleBear63 (Jan 2, 2016)

Let's shoot archery and have fun for crying out loud!


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## friend of coal (Jan 14, 2010)

UncleBear63 said:


> Let's shoot archery and have fun for crying out loud!


Agree 100%


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

UncleBear63 said:


> Let's shoot archery and have fun for crying out loud!


Yes, I agree also. We have somewhere to shoot. All nice places also. The alternative is driving across the country to shoot ASA---no thanks. Doesn't say that things can't be improved on.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

all archery clubs got a big boost when the compound bow was invented and with all the improvements in arrows ,cams on bows and much much more.what the archery industry has not done is somehow get the other about 90 % of the archers that are bowhunters,archers who shoot just for fun and some other archers too get more involved in organized archery somehow. is it because the politics at the top are to much in these archery organizations ? or is it just time for new out of the box thinking ? most of the replies on this post think so. Here`s an example of some of the NFAA leaders say : I have been a director for 15 years,another says I was a director for 12 years now I am a council member really just what the heck have you people really done except collect a few bucks ? some of these policies are 20-30-maybe 40 years old and I bet maybe other archery organizations are the same dull way too. or is it the manufactures just want it this way so they can control archery for only their personal gains ? like why is there no compound bow division in archery in the Olympics ? but by George in the shotgun-pistol and rifle in the Olympics that is so much bigger now in the olympics or olmypic beach volleyball really ? shame on the archery manufactuerers,organized archery"NFAA-IBO and all the rest" and even archery magazines >you all get or take money on your end for your business but not much of a improved return for the archery world, its always just take and take or what can I get for me-me.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

IBO Worlds is a well run world class competition format. Why the IBO doesn't run all of their shoots this way I will never understand.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

rancid69 said:


> I feel since switching to Pipestem, WV and Bloomington, IN the IBO is taking a step in the right direction. These last 2 years at these locations have ran flawless. I remember the days of Erie, Bedford and Nelsonville. I shot Nelsonville once and swore I would never go back, and I never did.
> 
> Last year the third leg was a complete disaster. They received a bunch of negative feedback and they moved the location this year without hesitation. (which was the first year at this location)
> 
> ...


I definitely understand. You should try one ASA tournament weekend. Sign up for the Team shoot and at least one SIMS round. You'll then compete in 3 different events and of course you can shoot the practice range. Walk a few different courses when you aren't shooting to see what all is going on. IF you can stay for the Pro shootdowns all the better. You'll quickly realize that any ASA weekend is MUCH more interesting, exciting and entertaining than even the largest IBO tournament. If you have kids you can walk the course and watch them shoot all the while going and coming as you please.



GreggWNY said:


> I would guess that over the last 20 years I've probably paid 4 grand in membership dues and entry fees. As a dues paying member of the IBO, I'm pretty sure that would allow me to say whatever I'd like about the organization as long as its the truth. As I stated in my first post in that pretty long thread, the IBO is in a death spiral. I'd like nothing more than to see improvements made and an increase in membership and attendance. With that said... if the current leadership continues on the same path its been following then the IBO will continue to falter and eventually fail.


As you know the IBO has been steadily shrinking for well over a decade while the ASA has been steadily growing. IBO members have been begging for improvements for over a decade and while the IBO leadership has been fighting changes that are obviously beneficial. Makes no sense to anyone other than a few folks that continue being "in charge".



Mathew Lyman said:


> K is "hard to see the spot" spot archery. NFAA field and hunter field is a walk through the woods with spots you can see without having to study the target with your bino's for 5 minutes. Unknown is 3D. The only issue with IBO is not having a shotgun start. ASA is Disneyland, the scoring setup is irrational as the liberal guests on Tucker Carlson's show.


Dear sir,
Your ignorance no longer amazes me or anyone else. "The only issue with the IBO is not having a shotgun start", :doh: and again you make a statement that proves inexperience! You make those of us that aren't liberals sound like fools! Please stop with the political comments............... 



allxs said:


> IBO Worlds is a well run world class competition format. Why the IBO doesn't run all of their shoots this way I will never understand.


The World's is the best of what the IBO has but it's still very much lacking.


If I lived up north I'd be praying some archery heavy hitters pulled together and set up a tournament series as an alternative to the IBO. Heck, if folks like Rhinehart, Lancaster Archery Supply, Tru Ball, Easton, Mathews and other product manufacturers put their heads together for 30 minutes they could come up with a much better tournament series in the IBO market. In 12 months they could buy the IBO label for not so much, get the tournament series rolling and easily double their money in a few years!

Is there an entity out there like "The Outdoor Group" interested in owning a tournament series? Maybe...... At this point it may not be worth buying the IBO. It may be better to start with a fresh slate and then pick up the "IBO" when they come begging.


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## Mathew Lyman (Feb 25, 2017)

You shoot K so there's nothing else to say


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Mathew Lyman said:


> You shoot K so there's nothing else to say


So...you're saying you've nothing else to say. PERFECT!!!

lol


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## hoytgirl4 (May 23, 2013)

If you don't like IBO then don't shoot it, plain and simple.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Mathew Lyman said:


> You shoot K so there's nothing else to say


Sweetheart, I shoot any game, anywhere at any time. 

Like I've told you many times in the past Lisa YOU name the game and I'll hand your alligator mouth your hummingbird butt!:wave3:


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

hoytgirl4 said:


> If you don't like IBO then don't shoot it, plain and simple.


You are *EXACTLY *right! If an archer feels that the IBO isn't worth their time and money they should not join. I'm certain folks are perfectly capable of making that choice without being reminded. Many archers agree with us as well. The IBO tournament participation numbers have steadily decreased all the while other archery organizations tournaments have steadily grown.

Hoytgirl4, You should be happy to hear that I met a few more disgruntled IBO tournament archers participating in their first but not their last ASA shoot in London, Ky this past weekend. They said that they will likely not shoot any IBO next year!


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## robinofthehood (Jun 14, 2010)

Here is my POV as a long time IBO member.

The International Bowhunting Organization (IBO) was created in 1984 by a dedicated group of bowhunters who shared the desire to ensure that bowhunting and the ideals of wildlife conservation survive, expand and flourish to be shared, enjoyed and passed on to future generations.

By its charter, the International Bowhunting Organization’s purpose is “To promote, encourage and foster the sport of bowhunting; further bowhunter education; act as a political coordinator and liaison for the protection and advancement of bowhunting; -- function as a clearinghouse for essential bowhunter information; and -- adhere to the basic ideal of the unification of bowhunters.”

As part of the Triple Crown and World events, competitors regularly participate in a unique tradition, shooting the IBO Bowhunter Defense Fund Range. Fees collected from those who shoot these recreational ranges are earmarked for the IBO Bowhunter Defense Fund. To date, this fund has disbursed in excess of $700,000 to help ensure a strong and lasting future for bowhunting.

These paragraphs were taken directly from their website. 
Notice how many times the words "bowhunter" and "bowhunting" are used.
No where in their mission statement does it say we cater to target shooters and money hungry shooters.

This is a "bow hunting" organization with "bow hunting" courses. 
I respect the current President and his belief that rangefinders and known classes have no place in their format.

I thank my lucky stars I live in IBO territory.

As far as the shrinking numbers, I like the fact that what's left is a dedicated group of bow hunters.
You can have your assembly line format with time slots, whistles and shooters that feel they have to come home with some chumps money.

Go ahead, chastise me and tell me how uneducated I am. I am a bowhunter with broad shoulders, I can take it...


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## Uzurmnd247 (Jun 1, 2009)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, all of the bowhunters that I know use Rangefinders for hunting, even the pro's who have their own television show's. In society today the anti- hunters are waiting for a chance to hear of someone wounding a deer,bear,moose. Even then it's not guaranteed that you harvest the animal successfully. If they represent bowhunters, then wouldn't you think they want you to have the best chance of harvesting that animal, cleanly! I would rather shoot 240fps and know the distance, than to shoot 300 and misjudge the yardage. Not trying to bash the IBO, because we need every Archery program for education,longevity of archery,and to keep this sport and hunting in general alive!!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Uzurmnd247 said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, all of the bowhunters that I know use Rangefinders for hunting, even the pro's who have their own television show's. In society today the anti- hunters are waiting for a chance to hear of someone wounding a deer,bear,moose. Even then it's not guaranteed that you harvest the animal successfully. If they represent bowhunters, then wouldn't you think they want you to have the best chance of harvesting that animal, cleanly! I would rather shoot 240fps and know the distance, than to shoot 300 and misjudge the yardage. Not trying to bash the IBO, because we need every Archery program for education,longevity of archery,and to keep this sport and hunting in general alive!!


Good post..."LIKE BUTTON" pushed.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

robinofthehood said:


> Here is my POV as a long time IBO member.
> 
> The International Bowhunting Organization (IBO) was created in 1984 by a dedicated group of bowhunters who shared the desire to ensure that bowhunting and the ideals of wildlife conservation survive, expand and flourish to be shared, enjoyed and passed on to future generations.
> 
> ...


And without the "target" shooters there would be no bowhunter defense course money.
Imagine how much more money would be in place if they did cater.


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## wv hoyt man (Feb 17, 2012)

There is really one big reason the numbers have dropped and everybody that has posted has not listed the issue.
After a person shoots the IBO for a few years figures it out.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

Would really like to see where that $700,000 was spent???????
During my involvement with the organization first as a state rep then as State Representative Coordinator to Board of Directors any and all monies collected through Bowhunter Defense was used in the day to day operations of the President and the office staff. That was when tournament participation was 50% higher than current numbers.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

NYS REP said:


> Would really like to see where that $700,000 was spent???????
> During my involvement with the organization first as a state rep then as State Representative Coordinator to Board of Directors any and all monies collected through Bowhunter Defense was used in the day to day operations of the President and the office staff. That was when tournament participation was 50% higher than current numbers.


IBO is a 501 (c)3 and as such is required to file federal tax returns. Those returns are open to the public. If you want you can go on-line and check them out.

I think you're right that the majority of those funds were used to pay organization expenses. That's true for a lot of these non-profits. ASA is a for-profit.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

robinofthehood said:


> Here is my POV as a long time IBO member.
> 
> The International Bowhunting Organization (IBO) was created in 1984 by a dedicated group of bowhunters who shared the desire to ensure that bowhunting and the ideals of wildlife conservation survive, expand and flourish to be shared, enjoyed and passed on to future generations.
> 
> ...


I remember my father talking about attending the very first IBO shoots. If I remember correctly he and a "dedicated group of bow hunters" slept on the IBO founders basement floor. At least one of those guys went on to win at least one truly world championship. I and every one of the guys that I shoot ASA national and local tournaments with bow hunt at least dozens of days a year. Enjoying competition archery and bow hunting are in no way mutually exclusive. In fact I only know a few folks that just shoot their bows for fun and do not bow hunt while I know literally hundreds of bow hunters. 

I began bow hunting in 1978 as a teenager and only got into tournament archery casually in about 2006. At first my father and went to one ASA event and a couple of IBO tournaments each year as the IBO was much more convenient. Over time as my interest in competitive archery grew we realized that the IBO was not nearly as much _fun_ as the ASA. I should point out I shot AHC in the IBO and Hunter in the ASA at the time and literally used my hunting bow. I actually started into target archery by shooting spots with my hunting rig just so I would be more effective at making shots on game.

No one is going to "chastise" you for being a bow hunter as the vast majority of ASA archers are hard core bow hunters! Maybe you shouldn't chastise me for doing more with bows than just bow hunting. There is no reason the IBO can not put on a better organized, structured, interesting and fun tournament that would be appealing to many more archers and their families _without_ driving away a significant number of current members. At the end of the day a small number of IBO folks are driving current members away while not recruiting nearly as many bow hunters to IBO events to replace them. There is no argument the IBO's "product" appeals to many less people today than it did just 5 years ago. Losing customers is never a good thing.

Most ASA archers don't know much about IBO tournaments just as most IBO archers know little about the ASA tournaments. I simply find it unfortunate that a lot more bow hunters can't experience a much better game than what the IBO currently _chooses _to produce. I can't see how having 1,000's more members in the IBO would be a bad thing for the organization. One day there will be archery tournaments in the IBO market that draw in and interests many more archers. It's just a matter of when and how. Change is inevitable.

The IBO leadership wouldn't be the first "leaders" that would rather watch their customer base shrink than to relinquish the reigns or acknowledge they made mistakes. In the '80's the NFAA literally let the IBO and ASA take over the largest and fastest growing market in organized archery (3D)! They adamantly refused to adapt and now the only thing keeping the NFAA relevant is the indoor spot game and the WAF owns the Vegas tournament. 

It make little or no difference to me what the IBO does or does not do since I stopped being a member. My primary archery interest is bow hunting and at this point in my life I can do as much or as little ASA and NFAA tournament archery as I like. At one time Virginia was hard core IBO country but now I'm certain the ASA membership is larger and growing while the IBO membership continues to shrink.

BTW, the IBO customer is missing out on much more than Known distance classes! The Pro/Am and SIMS competition are just two examples.


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## Thornearcher (Sep 8, 2007)

Have we heard anything from the IBO?? Other than they do not want know yardage in the format??? If anybody knows, I would like to hear it.


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## Wicked Pro Shop (Jun 4, 2017)

UncleBear63 said:


> Let's shoot archery and have fun for crying out loud!


Sounds good to me


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Wicked Pro Shop said:


> Sounds good to me


That would require us leaving our keyboards....don't see that happening.


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## UncleBear63 (Jan 2, 2016)

Thought I would throw another stick on the fire and ask this: I've been reading all IBO getting bashed, well, without stirring up a hornet's nest, what does ASA do other than make money and put in their pockets? Just saying lol


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

UncleBear63 said:


> Thought I would throw another stick on the fire and ask this: I've been reading all IBO getting bashed, well, without stirring up a hornet's nest, what does ASA do other than make money and put in their pockets? Just saying lol


You say this as if its a bad thing. ANd thats totally wrong. Dont talk about buissness like its criminal, asa provide a product people choose to buy. That product is either satisfactory or not and people either continue to buy or dont. Just the same as you buy pepsi or coke over the other. If running a good buissness means putting out a superior product, the person getting paid will indefinately have to put out the best product they can. I run an organization not unlike the ASA. Totally a buissness and Im totally never going to hide that. I work very hard with ONT3D tournaments to ensure a proper product and happy customers. I gaurantee you the people trying to make money will work harder to EARN your dollar.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

UncleBear63 said:


> Thought I would throw another stick on the fire and ask this: I've been reading all IBO getting bashed, well, without stirring up a hornet's nest, what does ASA do other than make money and put in their pockets? Just saying lol


They spread the wealth...payouts to the shooters is higher, there are more ways to get into the payouts such as team shoots and SIMMS, they strongly support S3D for the kids, they promote scholarships such as the Trey Spencer Memorial. They bring the circus to town that puts money in the pockets of local businesses and their workers (an unintended consequence for sure, but true).

And they give old geezers like me a chance to do fun things again...very important.


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## UncleBear63 (Jan 2, 2016)

Alright gentlemen you took the bait.....lol. My point is the IBO chooses to run their organization this way and why are so many people bashing it. Let's just shoot our bows and pick what ever organization we want, remember it's your choice!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

UncleBear63 said:


> Alright gentlemen you took the bait.....lol. My point is the IBO chooses to run *their *organization this way and why are so many people bashing it. Let's just shoot our bows and pick what ever organization we want, remember it's your choice!


"Their" organization? If they want to run "their" organization into the ground then it's "their" choice. Many of us have chosen to not support "their" organization. Don't complain about vendors not showing up and ponying up at "their" tournaments.

Is it bashing or is it expressing disappointment in an organization that we were once members of? Is it bashing because you are taking our disappointment and frustration personally? Everyone has the right to express themselves in a reasonable manner. It is NOT bashing when a fellow archer let's another archer know that there is a much better archery organization and tournaments that are much more fun, family friendly with more side games available than what the IBO offers.

Many of us do have a choice in which organization's tournaments we participate in but many former and current IBO members find that in reality they do _not _have a choice. Participating in the ASA is too much of a burden due to where they live and where the tournaments are located.

When someone asks me if I shoot the IBO I tell them no. Then they ask me why and I tell them why. Hey, _if_ I had no other option I'd shoot the IBO but I DO have an option that is MUCH more fun! There are a lot of archers that have defected from the IBO and now shot ASA. I think archers in IBO territory deserve better, I KNOW they deserve better and many of us know exactly how it could be.

Instead of calling those that point out how much more the ASA has to offer bashers why not point out the IBO's positives? I've participated in both and I know that the large majority of folks will enjoy an ASA weekend much more than an IBO weekend. Grand parents can walk on and off ASA ranges that their grand kids are shooting. I've seen young mothers with their babies in strollers watching their husbands and friends compete on the range. Can they do that in the IBO? I used to finish my round and then walk over and watch my dad finish his round. Can you do that at an IBO tournament? At ASA tournaments there is a 10 target SIMS range that you can shoot as many times as you like and you win $$. The ASA has a 10 target Pro/Am tournament the day before the regular tournaments starts that anyone can sign up for.


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## UncleBear63 (Jan 2, 2016)

Well, sorry about getting under your skin but I too have shot both ASA & IBO for several years but I personally like IBO format. I enjoy shooting ASA but they are kinda out of my travel range for the most part. I personally, will not give negative feedback on the ASA or on their methods of operation so with that said IBO is my choice. Bash all you want too! (just joking) Have a Blessed Day.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

the reply`s on this post are not bashing, all reply`s are trying to help make archery better by replying to what needs to change to make all these organizations better for the archers and the bottom line >make all archery much more fun. I hope the people making the decisions are reading ALL the reply`s ??? and start thinking outside the box in a more positive manner to please the archer`s !


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

UncleBear63 said:


> Well, sorry about getting under your skin but I too have shot both ASA & IBO for several years but I personally like IBO format. I enjoy shooting ASA but they are kinda out of my travel range for the most part. I personally, will not give negative feedback on the ASA or on their methods of operation so with that said IBO is my choice. Bash all you want too! (just joking) Have a Blessed Day.


You really did not get under my skin. The facts obviously get under your skin. I guess all constructive criticism is "bashing" if you don't agree with it. 

It won't be long before another thread is started about how the IBO is losing participants and asking why it's happening. It's been happening here for at least a decade. Whether you love the IBO or hate the IBO it does not effect the facts pertaining to the significant loss of participants AND vendors. A fact based honest answer will be called "bashing" by some.

I really enjoyed the IBO at one time. I long ago gave up on the IBO. I answer honestly I don't bash.


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## UncleBear63 (Jan 2, 2016)

Let's clear up one thing.......I was not the one who started the thread and I think it was titled "IBO Bashing". Just saying!!!!!!


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## osuhunter2011 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh the days when archery was great and not full of a bunch of whining, bickering morons. Shut up and shoot!


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## hoosierredneck (May 10, 2010)

If your coming to Bloomington to enjoy the shoot,bring the best tick repellent you can get.they are extremely bad this year. They are those little suckers that are easy to overlook, but it looks like decent weather for the wknd,


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

> but it looks like decent weather for the wknd


50 -60 % chance of rain every day near 90, looks hot and wet.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

I can hear it now. "I didn't know i would need my boots"! :smile:


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## hoosierredneck (May 10, 2010)

Rocky,you know that's decent weather for the midwest.hotter than heck already and pop up thunderstorms. Blaming global warming for it


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## hoosierredneck (May 10, 2010)

nochance said:


> I can hear it now. "I didn't know i would need my boots"! :smile:


Chest waders will keep the ticks of your nads. Lol


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

hoosierredneck said:


> If your coming to Bloomington to enjoy the shoot,bring the best tick repellent you can get.they are extremely bad this year. They are those little suckers that are easy to overlook, but it looks like decent weather for the wknd,


Did you know that possums eat something like 5,000 ticks a day!

I think we should stop using them for taco meat.


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## hoosierredneck (May 10, 2010)

Now that's some useful info,we should have the fattest possums around


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

Well I just got home from the Bloomington shoot , shot ranges HH,I, and J
Without a doubt the best IBO shoot I have attended, water and restrooms where they need to be, and practice bags at the start of most courses
Really like the bags at the start of ranges , I have said that for years with the long waits
Bloomington hit it out of the park
Great job !


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Trykon Mike said:


> Well I just got home from the Bloomington shoot , shot ranges HH,I, and J
> Without a doubt the best IBO shoot I have attended, water and restrooms where they need to be, and practice bags at the start of most courses
> Really like the bags at the start of ranges , I have said that for years with the long waits
> Bloomington hit it out of the park
> Great job !


Makes me wonder why ASA chooses not to host a Pro Am here in the Hoosier State. :dontknow::dontknow:


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

Trykon Mike said:


> Well I just got home from the Bloomington shoot , shot ranges HH,I, and J
> Without a doubt the best IBO shoot I have attended, water and restrooms where they need to be, and practice bags at the start of most courses
> Really like the bags at the start of ranges , I have said that for years with the long waits
> Bloomington hit it out of the park
> Great job !


Good to hear. Might see if we can possibly do this at the 3rd leg at Fryburg. I just don't know right now how many bag targets are supplied to us.Sounds like a good idea if we can make it work. Thanks for the idea.


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## buckhunter48 (Jul 9, 2007)

Trykon Mike is right Shot HHIJ also best ran IBO and best ranges ever awseome job all around.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Surprised there weren't more shooters there.

Nice setup...well run...there has to be a reason.

20 pro shooters? Half as many as ASA had at London and that doesn't include the Pros in known which was four times the number of Pros at Bloomington.

IMHO if IBO doesn't step up and implement known yardage and shotgun starts it is going to continue to lose shooters. Too bad because we, as shooters, need options.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

661 shooters signed up. Not all turned in cards but they were included in the tally.

Pretty sad for a national 3D tournament.


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## bowjoe1800 (Sep 8, 2008)

These guys do a terrific job with the ranges. With the terrain there and at Pipestem, very challenging courses could be set for known classes if there were such a thing in the IBO.


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## Mike Gossard (Nov 14, 2009)

There was nothing sad about the 2nd Leg of the IBO National Triple Crown. I have been shooting in the IBO since the late 90's been to all the venues accept PA last year due to my mothers's health. This is one of the finest venues, range, organized, welcoming place I have ever shot. Every place & organization always has challenges, we are archers, bowhunters, men, woman, & children who enjoys the outdoors and enjoying a recreational sport. The IBO a 34 year organization has evolved many times over the years and will continue to do so. A Not-for-Profit organization with a board of 17 members is managed very differently than a For-Profit organization wile a sole proprietor. All need to be included in the promotion of the sport, ALL are good, each is different. WE support what we want and chose not to go to an event as we wish. There is to much negative. (period) My momma still tells me today, if I don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. I believe we can be part of the solution and not the problem, and if we could start there we will influence change. I hear all those who will say that we have done this before and nothing happens, and I get that... please think about 17 different people from different parts of the country coming together to implement change. Give the process time. I know for a fact that the IBO Organization cares. Also Pipestem is great! I am looking forward to PA, and Seven Springs is as good as it gets! Enjoy our sport!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Mike Gossard said:


> There was nothing sad about the 2nd Leg of the IBO National Triple Crown. I have been shooting in the IBO since the late 90's been to all the venues accept PA last year due to my mothers's health. This is one of the finest venues, range, organized, welcoming place I have ever shot. Every place & organization always has challenges, we are archers, bowhunters, men, woman, & children who enjoys the outdoors and enjoying a recreational sport. The IBO a 34 year organization has evolved many times over the years and will continue to do so. A Not-for-Profit organization with a board of 17 members is managed very differently than a For-Profit organization wile a sole proprietor. All need to be included in the promotion of the sport, ALL are good, each is different. WE support what we want and chose not to go to an event as we wish. There is to much negative. (period) My momma still tells me today, if I don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. I believe we can be part of the solution and not the problem, and if we could start there we will influence change. I hear all those who will say that we have done this before and nothing happens, and I get that... please think about 17 different people from different parts of the country coming together to implement change. Give the process time. I know for a fact that the IBO Organization cares. Also Pipestem is great! I am looking forward to PA, and Seven Springs is as good as it gets! Enjoy our sport!


I'd really like to shoot IBO and support them. But they have chosen not to include a class that meets my needs and I can't see them changing anytime soon.

I'm not the only one who feels that way and I think that is reflected in the numbers at the triple crown events. Those numbers are not the kind of numbers that should be showing up at a national event, an event sponsored by an organization that has been around for 34 years. The numbers have been on a downward trend while ASA numbers have been climbing. That indicates that ASA is providing what most shooters want, they are voting with their feet and their pocketbooks.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

Bloomington was one of the best sites I have shot at yet, only had one tick on me. Everything about the shoot went smooth from what I seen and I was there Thursday night till they packed up the IBO trailer and pulled out. I hope the IBO is around a long time, I do think there could be some changes to help boost attendance and members but as long as it is a unanimous vote it will probably never happen. Unanimous votes I feel are only for places that are afraid to hurt feelings of a couple, I would rather lose 50 people and gain 100 by changing some things then not change at all and lose 20-30 a year. IBO I know is not for profit and a lot of money goes for the good but just imagine if it stayed that way and was still ran like a business, it would have even more money to dentate!

I cant wait to shoot Frysburg....


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