# RPM 360, COD, DNA, DNA SP, FT, CST Review/Speeds



## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Ok guys the results are in. I just setup all bows, shot the same arrow 3 times each through the chrono and took the average. Here is my results, flame on:
RPM 360: 27.5" draw 70.6# 351 gn arrow 317fps, 508gn arrow 266fps
RPM 360: 30" draw 351 gn arrow 347fps
Carbon Overdrive: 27.5" draw 70.5# 351 gn arrow 317fps, 508 gn arrow 268 fps
Full Throttle: 27.5" draw 59.1lbs 351 gn arrow 309fps, 508 gn arrow 260fps
DNA: 27.5" draw 67.2lbs 351 gn arrow 311fps, 508 gn arrow 262fps
DNA SP: 27.5" draw 68.1lbs 351gn arrow 311 fps, 508 gn arrow 262fps
Carbon Spyder Turbo: 27.5" draw 70.2# 351 gn arrow 313, 508 gn arrow 264fps

Draw cycles from easiest to stiffest go
FT
CST
DNA
DNA SP
RPM 360
COD

Vibration in the hand after the shot from least to most
CST
FT
DNA, DNA SP
RPM 360
COD

Noise on the shot from least to most
FT
DNA, DNA SP, RPM 360
CST
COD

When I set the draw to 30" on the RPM the bow became almost unbearable to draw. I honestly thought I set something up wrong the first time I tried to draw the bow back. At 27.5" draw it was a pleasure to draw and shoot. It had a small amount of residual buzz but very little. I honestly had to shoot my dna SP and the 360 back and forth to tell the difference between the two. They really shot very similiar and drew very similiar. The sp drew slightly easier but the rpm had more letoff. Otherwise very very comparable on the shot minus the weight difference. I really like the grip personally. It feels very nice and feels very repeatable. I do not like the looks of it but from a functional standpoint it is very nice.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)




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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Sorry bout the orientation on those...


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## DeanH (Feb 2, 2013)

thx for the writeup. 

at 27.5 seems the RPM is just a handful shy of the IBO 

and pretty identical to the DNA SP.

Hard to say with the percieved "easier pulling" bows as the FT was a 60, and seems you were able to test the rest in 70ish pounds  

Overall its nice to have somecomparable numbers. 

thank you again for your time and effort. 

im definately gonna have to peek the FT- honestly i didnt believe it could be a smooth puller with those speeds-


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## hoytelement24c (Jun 4, 2013)

What did you use to measure noise?


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

Thanks for taking the time to do all that.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

hoytelement24c said:


> What did you use to measure noise?


My ears. They are all pretty quiet bows.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

DeanH said:


> thx for the writeup.
> 
> at 27.5 seems the RPM is just a handful shy of the IBO
> 
> ...


Yes the full throttle was only 60 lbs but you can see it still stacked up against other 70lb speed bows and with the lighter weight drew much easier.


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

Did the overdrive have a peep and a loop on the string.


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## blakeman (Dec 7, 2006)

Thanks for doing these. Could you do the same, but with some short draw bow's????????????? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

psychobaby111 said:


> Did the overdrive have a peep and a loop on the string.


Everything was the same with a loop and peep but the overdrive did have string silencers as well.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

blakeman said:


> Thanks for doing these. Could you do the same, but with some short draw bow's????????????? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What specs are you looking for? May take a few days but I could test whatever we have at the shop in your desired specs.


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

Nice tests


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## enewman (Jun 5, 2007)

Looks like I'll be staying with my mr5 26.5 measured draw 67 lb 508 gn arrow 261 

Thanks for the test


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

thanks for the review, wow sucks the 360 isn't making close to IBO. That is disappointing for sure. That is the only bow in review I really care about and by your stats its a turd.


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## GrooGrux (Jun 3, 2009)

So with my 28" dl overdrive, I'll be throwing arrows as fast as the rpm, good deal.


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## blakeman (Dec 7, 2006)

For short draw say pse stiletto, evo sd, bowtech heartbreaker, Hoyt charger @ 50 to 60lbs with IBO arrow, hunting arrow, heavy hunting arrow, maybe at 25.5" draw


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

From the review, looks like the FT is the clear winner if the OP were to pick.

Assuming your draw length is probably around 27.5", given the OD hump before the dump character, not surprised you have a hard time drawing the RPM at 30". 

It is nice to see different bows subjected to the same arrow and chrono.


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## DeanH (Feb 2, 2013)

bowtech2006 said:


> thanks for the review, wow sucks the 360 isn't making close to IBO. That is disappointing for sure. That is the only bow in review I really care about and by your stats its a turd.


at the stats he posted to make IBO, it should do 323, it is doing 317 on his chrono. i would say it very close to IBO speed all things considered. 

im impressed by the FT though, PSE really got a screamer out this year.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

mongopino915 said:


> From the review, looks like the FT is the clear winner if the OP were to pick.
> 
> Assuming your draw length is probably around 27.5", given the OD hump before the dump character, not surprised you have a hard time drawing the RPM at 30".
> 
> It is nice to see different bows subjected to the same arrow and chrono.


Working at a shop for the last 8+ years I have no troubles shooting a 30" draw normally even though I am a 27" draw. I really liked it at the shorter draw though.


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## tack09 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you run the posted numbers through an online calculator, the FT and 360 are both equally 7fps low of their advertised IBO speeds. So how is the 360 a turd and not the FT?


bowtech2006 said:


> thanks for the review, wow sucks the 360 isn't making close to IBO. That is disappointing for sure. That is the only bow in review I really care about and by your stats its a turd.


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## Jared_LA (Apr 22, 2005)

Thanks sneak for your efforts.....This is the test I was looking for which is close to my DL (27"). My CST will be here in approx. 2.5 weeks, so I guess I need to shoot the FT. Would you mind comparing valleys on the FT and CST? I find the Hoyts is the perfect balance for me.


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks for the test, I always enjoy seeing real world speed from bows shot through the same chrono. Lot's of interesting things noted in your post - a few that surprised me:

1. The Hoyts Carbon Spyder Turbo(advertised speed 340 fps) is only a couple fps slower than the Bowtech RPM (advertised speed 360 fps) 
2. The FT tested well and even at 59 lbs hangs with the others. I wonder how many potential hunters can live with the 5 1/4" BH. 
3. The Bowtech COD is faster than the RPM - with 1/2 more BH and 18 fps slower ibo.


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

tack09 said:


> If you run the posted numbers through an online calculator, the FT and 360 are both equally 7fps low of their advertised IBO speeds. So how is the 360 a turd and not the FT?


Actually you have to take into account that the FT was a 60# bow and the RPM was a 70. 60# limbs even grained out will typically lose about 4 fps off of a 70# of the same bow grained out. Plus the RPM was shot at 5gpp and the FT wasnt. A more fair comparison would be to shoot a 300 grain arrow through the 60# FT and then add 4 fps to the results


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## tack09 (Feb 13, 2009)

True that a comparison of equal bow specks would be best. The online calculators do adjust for bow/arrow weights. All I did was plug in the numbers the OP gave and the calculator had both bows at 7fps below their advertised IBO speed.


ChuckA84 said:


> Actually you have to take into account that the FT was a 60# bow and the RPM was a 70. 60# limbs even grained out will typically lose about 4 fps off of a 70# of the same bow grained out. Plus the RPM was shot at 5gpp and the FT wasnt. A more fair comparison would be to shoot a 300 grain arrow through the 60# FT and then add 4 fps to the results


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

ChuckA84 said:


> Actually you have to take into account that the FT was a 60# bow and the RPM was a 70. 60# limbs even grained out will typically lose about 4 fps off of a 70# of the same bow grained out. Plus the RPM was shot at 5gpp and the FT wasnt. A more fair comparison would be to shoot a 300 grain arrow through the 60# FT and then add 4 fps to the results


My full throttle will do 331 at 5gpp.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Jared_LA said:


> Thanks sneak for your efforts.....This is the test I was looking for which is close to my DL (27"). My CST will be here in approx. 2.5 weeks, so I guess I need to shoot the FT. Would you mind comparing valleys on the FT and CST? I find the Hoyts is the perfect balance for me.


They are quite a bit different in valley, there is little in the full throttle and plenty in the cst.


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

I think the RPM will get IBO, may need a little tweaking.

The sleeper which people are starting to finally notice is the Carbon Overdrive.


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## Camp (May 30, 2010)

:thumbs_up


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Thanks for the write up. The rpm 360 didn't even come close. That seems typical.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Excellent write up and test. Thank you for taking the time to do so. A lot of people want these tests then wish to argue the results without saying thanks for something they will never take the time to do. Lots of interesting findings.


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

Not nocking the RPM but if you are expecting the RPM to do a true 360 fps IBO, some chronos might get you there. Apple to apple comparison, doubt the RPM will be 10 fps faster than the DNA.

Thanks for the test Sneak.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

4IDARCHER said:


> Excellent write up and test. Thank you for taking the time to do so. A lot of people want these tests then wish to argue the results without saying thanks for something they will never take the time to do. Lots of interesting findings.


Couple things to note, I did not sit down and try to tune as much speed out if any of these as possible. I feel my full throttle is on the bottom end of the ibo range but I did loose a few fps over factory, about 5 if I remember correctly. All bows where just grabbed off the shelf checked that the timing was really close just by drawing and looking/feeling and shot them through the chronograph. I don't think it is very common for many people to be happy with almost any bow when they shoot them through a chronograph because we always want more for less but it is what it is and this is how most shops will probably sell their bows so I feel that it is a good test.


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

blakeman said:


> For short draw say pse stiletto, evo sd, bowtech heartbreaker, Hoyt charger @ 50 to 60lbs with IBO arrow, hunting arrow, heavy hunting arrow, maybe at 25.5" draw


as far as the heartbreaker read my sig and minuse about 5 fps


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

Sneak, what Chrono are you using?? Those numbers seem slow across the board from what I have been seeing.


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## OCHO505 (May 27, 2010)

pointndog said:


> I think the RPM will get IBO, may need a little tweaking.
> 
> The sleeper which people are starting to finally notice is the Carbon Overdrive.


I also agree with this. As far as the Carbon OD the RPM was not my cup of tea.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Nice review. Even if the chronograph is slow, the CO is a screamer. I'm starting to think that may be the Bowtech to own this year.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

tack09 said:


> If you run the posted numbers through an online calculator, the FT and 360 are both equally 7fps low of their advertised IBO speeds. So how is the 360 a turd and not the FT?


Cause I think all PSE are turds and only care about the Bowtech. And I stated I only cared about the Bowtech so you should of read that part.


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## MAXXIS31 (Dec 15, 2009)

sneak1413 said:


> Yes the full throttle was only 60 lbs but you can see it still stacked up against other 70lb speed bows and with the lighter weight drew much easier.


Thanks for the great write up. I would argue the smoothness but I think that smoothness is in the arms of the beholder so to speak. I was shooting a FT at 58lbs next to my CST at 65lbs and felt that the CST had a much smoother draw throughout the cycle. The FT pulls extremely easy off at first and stacks into a pretty good hump right before the wall and the CST is just the opposite it pulls stiff at first and gets easier as you come into the wall. I shot them both at 28" though. 




DJO said:


> Thanks for the test, I always enjoy seeing real world speed from bows shot through the same chrono. Lot's of interesting things noted in your post - a few that surprised me:
> 
> 1. The Hoyts Carbon Spyder Turbo(advertised speed 340 fps) is only a couple fps slower than the Bowtech RPM (advertised speed 360 fps)* I think this just goes to show how much more efficiently hoyts shoot at short draw lengths due there different cams and being able to keep the cam at full rotation.*
> 
> ...


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## Smiley1215 (May 10, 2013)

I agree all seem slow across the board...but is fair comparison from bow to bow


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## The "WIZARD" (Mar 22, 2006)

Of course the FT felt smoother and seemed more quiet... it was a 60 pounder...


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## OCHO505 (May 27, 2010)

The "WIZARD" said:


> Of course the FT felt smoother and seemed more quiet... it was a 60 pounder...


Lol - I thought the same thing...


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

Crackers is supposed to get his Demo RPM360 Today I will wait to see what he says which I am confident will be at the least advertised IBO if not better. Bowtech has never sent a bow out that fell short of advertised IBO.


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

The "WIZARD" said:


> Of course the FT felt smoother and seemed more quiet... it was a 60 pounder...


Which makes it more impressive is that it was only 6 fps slower than the 70 #RPM shooting a 508 gn arrow. Pretty amazing.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

trucker3573 said:


> That is still fast......I wonder how many immediate orderers of the RPm will cancel them?


I Won't cancel if I say ill buy one to a dealer means I'll buy one. But will sell it tho if not meeting with in 5 fps of IBO or if wife don't like it.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

Im with Maxxis31 here My full throttle has a definite hump in it. What I cant figure out for the life of me is how at different draw lengths, some have humps and some don't. I know that at 27 mine has a hump that would make you think the dang cams are bent into triangles! Sorry folks, its just the facts plain and simple. Does the bow deliver....YES...all day long. Is it smooth.....well, other than the massive hump and dump...YES! Great bow, for sure, but after shooting a DNA for a year, the full throttle isn't my cup of tea. BTW since the full throttle is SOOOOO SMOOOOOTH, I got one in 27 dl I will make someone a deal on if interested, its a 65lber all black........lol. 
Scottie....about the chrono that Sneak is using, I would bet he is using the PRO-CHRONO. Reason I say this is I know my chrono avarages about 4-6 feet slower than yours, and has for as long as I have known you. And you guessed it, mine is a PRO-CHRONO. I think the PRO-CHRONO is slower than about any other Chrono on the market. I have notices this with others that have the PRO-CHRONO as well. I would say its pretty safe if you have a PRO-CHRONO to just ad five feet to what ever it reads, and that is what it would read through the beta's and such. I don't do this myself, I just go off of the normal number that mine displays when I post most of my findings here on Archery Talk, but if you look carefully most of my bows are magically about five feet slow of where they should be.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

bornagain said:


> Crackers is supposed to get his Demo RPM360 Today I will wait to see what he says which I am confident will be at the least advertised IBO if not better. Bowtech has never sent a bow out that fell short of advertised IBO.


Except for 95% of Insanity's. And yes I shoot Bowtech and that is no bash.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

Scottie....I almost forgot, when you do a test on the RPM please test a short dl like 27 please. Many of us growth impaired people are trying to gather as much info on this bow as possible. I know its the main bow Im looking at. Thanks Bud


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks for the write up...Great honest info


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

seiowabow said:


> Except for 95% of Insanity's. And yes I shoot Bowtech and that is no bash.


Agreed 150%. The above is a FACT!!!


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

SNEAK.......Thanks for taking the time man, we know you are busy and it wasn't easy for you to take the time to get this done. We appreciate the info!!


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

13bonatter69 said:


> Scottie....I almost forgot, when you do a test on the RPM please test a short dl like 27 please. Many of us growth impaired people are trying to gather as much info on this bow as possible. I know its the main bow Im looking at. Thanks Bud


You may get to 28" or 29" when you grow up. It will be OK. LOL


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

Scottie/PA said:


> You may get to 28" or 29" when you grow up. It will be OK. LOL


HAHA....I don't think that's gonna happen, cause Ive basicly been the same size since third or fourth grade...BWAHAH


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

So are you saying that the Full Throttle has the smoothest DFC?


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## Eagle 1 (Jun 18, 2008)

didn't want to shoot the Full Throttle at 70 #, probably cause the other bows wouldn't stack up against it.
I think if your going to compare bows, do all them the same. Great you took the time to do a bow comparison, but maybe you should do them all the same so the results are fair.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Scottie/PA said:


> Sneak, what Chrono are you using?? Those numbers seem slow across the board from what I have been seeing.


Using a pro chrono with the light kit.


13bonatter69 said:


> Im with Maxxis31 here My full throttle has a definite hump in it. What I cant figure out for the life of me is how at different draw lengths, some have humps and some don't. I know that at 27 mine has a hump that would make you think the dang cams are bent into triangles! Sorry folks, its just the facts plain and simple. Does the bow deliver....YES...all day long. Is it smooth.....well, other than the massive hump and dump...YES! Great bow, for sure, but after shooting a DNA for a year, the full throttle isn't my cup of tea. BTW since the full throttle is SOOOOO SMOOOOOTH, I got one in 27 dl I will make someone a deal on if interested, its a 65lber all black........lol.
> Scottie....about the chrono that Sneak is using, I would bet he is using the PRO-CHRONO. Reason I say this is I know my chrono avarages about 4-6 feet slower than yours, and has for as long as I have known you. And you guessed it, mine is a PRO-CHRONO. I think the PRO-CHRONO is slower than about any other Chrono on the market. I have notices this with others that have the PRO-CHRONO as well. I would say its pretty safe if you have a PRO-CHRONO to just ad five feet to what ever it reads, and that is what it would read through the beta's and such. I don't do this myself, I just go off of the normal number that mine displays when I post most of my findings here on Archery Talk, but if you look carefully most of my bows are magically about five feet slow of where they should be.


Cam timing and rotation makes a huge difference, I can make mine have a hump or no hump depending on the tune on the bow.


Tony219er said:


> So are you saying that the Full Throttle has the smoothest DFC?


No I'm stating that of the exact bows I was shooting, the 60# full throttle was the easiest to draw. Of course it was 10+# less but it was right in the same ball park for speed so I see that as a fair comparison.


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## MAXXIS31 (Dec 15, 2009)

Since nobody has posted them here are all of the calculated IBO's based off of your results using Back County's Calculator:

*Bow / Adv. IBO / IBO-351gr / IBO-508gr / Differential from Adv. IBO*

360 / 360 fps / 346 / 342 / - (14-18 fps)

OD / 342 fps / 346 / 344 / + (2-4 fps)

FT / 370 fps / 362 / 360 / - (8-10 fps)

DNA / 352 fps / 349 / 346 / - (3-6 fps)

DNA SP/ 345 fps / 347 / 344 / (-1 - +2 fps) 

CST / 340 fps / 344 / 342 / + (2-4 fps)


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Eagle 1 said:


> didn't want to shoot the Full Throttle at 70 #, probably cause the other bows wouldn't stack up against it.
> I think if your going to compare bows, do all them the same. Great you took the time to do a bow comparison, but maybe you should do them all the same so the results are fair.


The full throttle and DNA sp are my personal bows, I wasn't going to order an extra set of limbs just to year some speeds for you. As stated it was a comparison of the bows we had on hand at the shop. We don't stock any 70# FT due to the lack of need for it but would order one in a heartbeat for a customer.


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## MAXXIS31 (Dec 15, 2009)

sneak1413 said:


> The full throttle and DNA sp are my personal bows, I wasn't going to order an extra set of limbs just to year some speeds for you. As stated it was a comparison of the bows we had on hand at the shop. We don't stock any 70# FT due to the lack of need for it but would order one in a heartbeat for a customer.


I noticed you measured draw weight, did you also put all of the bows on a draw board or are the draw lengths you used based off of the modules on the bow?


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## Ohbowhunter815 (Jul 19, 2010)

MAXXIS31 said:


> Since nobody has posted them here are all of the calculated IBO's based off of your results using Back County's Calculator:
> 
> *Bow / Adv. IBO / IBO-351gr / IBO-508gr / Differential from Adv. IBO*
> 
> ...



Hard to imagine the 360 would be that far out of the ballpark on the speed. This isn't Bowtech's first rodeo. Certainly not questioning your methods Sneak and appreciate the trouble you went thru, but if I was doing this test that would throw up a red flag as soon as the OD and 360 were that close on speed. Has to be something going on with the 360. A guy on Youtube was getting 323 out of a 360 @61.5, 28" and a 320 gr. arrow.


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Nice comparison... Although that full throttle woulda changed your mind at a longer DL and 70 pounds. That bow is a bear.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

MAXXIS31 said:


> I noticed you measured draw weight, did you also put all of the bows on a draw board or are the draw lengths you used based off of the modules on the bow?


No I did not measure the draw, I was going to hit ran out of time. The Hoyt felt a little short as did the DNA sp in comparison to my full throttle which is what I have been shooting lately.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Ohbowhunter815 said:


> Hard to imagine the 360 would be that far out of the ballpark on the speed. This isn't Bowtech's first rodeo. Certainly not questioning your methods Sneak and appreciate the trouble you went thru, but if I was doing this test that would throw up a red flag as soon as the OD and 360 were that close on speed. Has to be something going on with the 360. A guy on Youtube was getting 323 out of a 360 @61.5, 28" and a 320 gr. arrow.


I have heard rumors about the 360 bring slow at shorter lengths, that being said our chrono showed it slow at 30" as well. I have also heard that the cod did really well at short lengths. Now I am going to reshoot the cod again because I did think it was odd that it was that fast. That being said it also had the worst draw, loudest shot, and most vibration by a long ways. I honestly almost hate the way it shot. It was done after 1 in the morning between my manufacturing job and my plow job, been plowing since I posted this and am still in my truck...


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Nice comparison... Although that full throttle woulda changed your mind at a longer DL and 70 pounds. That bow is a bear.


I agree luckily in that aspect I don't have a long draw, that being said I have still never felt a bow draw so terribly different as the rpm did. It was honestly brutal. Felt like 80#+


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

sneak1413 said:


> I agree luckily in that aspect I don't have a long draw, that being said I have still never felt a bow draw so terribly different as the rpm did. It was honestly brutal. Felt like 80#+


I can't wait to try it... Although the reviews are saying I shouldn't be excited . My 80# CST is gonna be really hard to touch


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

Hello Sneak1413 thank you for all the good info.awesome Badbow


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## Sivart (Mar 12, 2004)

I'm gonna look closer at the ChillR if the 360 isn't going to make IBO. If I'm going to drop my brace height a full inch, I will have to get at least 15 more FPS to justify it.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

sneak1413 said:


> What specs are you looking for? May take a few days but I could test whatever we have at the shop in your desired specs.


25" draw, 60# bows: RPM, Heartbreaker or Carbon Rose, and anything else that you have access to at that draw length? Thanks for the great info!


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## c5mrr270 (Mar 3, 2009)

Ohbowhunter815 said:


> Hard to imagine the 360 would be that far out of the ballpark on the speed. This isn't Bowtech's first rodeo. Certainly not questioning your methods Sneak and appreciate the trouble you went thru, but if I was doing this test that would throw up a red flag as soon as the OD and 360 were that close on speed. Has to be something going on with the 360. A guy on Youtube was getting 323 out of a 360 @61.5, 28" and a 320 gr. arrow.



If you do the math that is only 347 ibo. Add a couple more for peep and loop.


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## bcycle (Feb 22, 2006)

Great real world comparison. I'm not big on ibo speeds but I feel your numbers are closer to reality. To many get caught up in (hot) numbers then get let down later.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

smhagger707 said:


> 25" draw, 60# bows: RPM, Heartbreaker or Carbon Rose, and anything else that you have access to at that draw length? Thanks for the great info!


We have a couple carbon roses, my girlfriend has a stilleto I could use, I think we have a consignment equalizer, I think the PSE drive might go that short as well as a DNA sp, we may have a short draw charger in stock. I know we have a fever one but I'm pretty sure that's not going to be a speed demon.


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## bcowette (Jan 11, 2007)

Sivart said:


> I'm gonna look closer at the ChillR if the 360 isn't going to make IBO. If I'm going to drop my brace height a full inch, I will have to get at least 15 more FPS to justify it.




ChillR is a fantastic bow. Top 3 of 2014


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## MAXXIS31 (Dec 15, 2009)

sneak1413 said:


> We have a couple carbon roses, my girlfriend has a stilleto I could use, I think we have a consignment equalizer, I think the PSE drive might go that short as well as a DNA sp, we may have a short draw charger in stock. I know we have a fever one but I'm pretty sure that's not going to be a speed demon.


A #1 cam hoyt would be a good one to throw in that mix if you happen to have one.


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## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

You should run a 300-ish gr arrow through the FT since it's only at 60#, and all the 70#ers are shooting the 351gr arrow. Then you'll see where the FT shines.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

JPR79 said:


> You should run a 300-ish gr arrow through the FT since it's only at 60#, and all the 70#ers are shooting the 351gr arrow. Then you'll see where the FT shines.


329-331 fps and if you have followed some of my posts I lost a few fps from stock strings when I put a beefier set on since I am shooting it for target stuff. Gonna play more with it when I get time, I'm sure I can get it back.


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## Panthers71 (Aug 12, 2012)

Very interesting


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## c5mrr270 (Mar 3, 2009)

MAXXIS31 said:


> A #1 cam hoyt would be a good one to throw in that mix if you happen to have one.


My wife has a #1 CST on order. I will post some speeds when it shows up.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

One big thing I look out for when comparing bow speeds is draw length. I've received bows that were as much as .5" over their marked draw length while another is spot on. If all the bows are shot through the same chrony then that is fair even if the chrony is not precisely accurate. If all the bows are measure on the same scale then that is also fair even if the scale is not absolutely accurate.

Being a short draw archer I'm acutely aware of how some bows can do great with a draw length say between at 27.5" or more but crash and burn at 26".


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

All the Insanity's that went through my shop hit their mark but then again I do make sure they are set up correctly.

Doing a full work up on the RPM and will report when finished. The FT also hits it's IBO but if you read many post here it falls short according to a few. I have a 28/60 FT doing 354 IBO and had a 29/65 that hit 361 IBO


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

Crackers said:


> All the Insanity's that went through my shop hit their mark but then again I do make sure they are set up correctly.
> 
> Doing a full work up on the RPM and will report when finished. The FT also hits it's IBO but if you read many post here it falls short according to a few. I have a 28/60 FT doing 354 IBO and had a 29/65 that hit 361 IBO


Looking forward to your review, Scotties, and Tonys.


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## Kahkon (Jul 22, 2009)

I won't get the ones I ordered in until like March 3rd. So, hopefully we can get some good reviews from some people.


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## The "WIZARD" (Mar 22, 2006)

I just got off the phone with our rep from Bowtech, I should have a 360 to play with on Thursday. He said the RPM's lose 13fps per inch rather than 10 on most bows... He said all bows ship at 29" and most go out the door shooting 342-344fps. They have an 8 fps range they consider acceptable... so 352-360. Said they won't ship a bow that won't hit in that range.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

The "WIZARD" said:


> I just got off the phone with our rep from Bowtech, I should have a 360 to play with on Thursday. He said the RPM's lose 13fps per inch rather than 10 on most bows... He said all bows ship at 29" and most go out the door shooting 342-344fps. They have an 8 fps range they consider acceptable... so 352-360. Said they won't ship a bow that won't hit in that range.


Interesting info.


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## CareyHamil (Oct 4, 2005)

I think a fair comparision on the FT would be at 70. then you would see how the draw cycle, holding weight, vibration and noise really are.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Sivart said:


> I'm gonna look closer at the ChillR if the 360 isn't going to make IBO. If I'm going to drop my brace height a full inch, I will have to get at least 15 more FPS to justify it.


My chill r is shooting 289 Fps with a 450 grain arrow, 29 DL 70 pounds, limbs were not maxed out, I set the limbs at 70 they could have maxed at 72-73 pounds, string had a peep, d loop, 2 monkey tails and 2 string grubs on it. Mine is shooting a good deal above it's ibo, you won't be disappointed should you decide to get one.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

goodoleboy11 said:


> My chill r is shooting 289 Fps with a 450 grain arrow, 29 DL 70 pounds, limbs were not maxed out, I set the limbs at 70 they could have maxed at 72-73 pounds, string had a peep, d loop, 2 monkey tails and 2 string grubs on it. Mine is shooting a good deal above it's ibo, you won't be disappointed should you decide to get one.


How you figuring it is shooting a "good deal above its ibo"? IBO is up to 342 and I'm coming up under that? Lol.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

chaded said:


> How you figuring it is shooting a "good deal above its ibo"? IBO is up to 342 and I'm coming up under that? Lol.


Mine is over 8 Fps over it's ibo. Lol because I used an ibo calculator, that's how. I am going to try getting a video up sometime soon when I have the time.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah...still not seeing it over IBO.


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## mtn3531 (Mar 6, 2009)

tack09 said:


> If you run the posted numbers through an online calculator, the FT and 360 are both equally 7fps low of their advertised IBO speeds. So how is the 360 a turd and not the FT?


Maybe because the FT was shot at 59.1 lbs and the 360 was shot at 70 lbs.


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

Crackers said:


> Doing a full work up on the RPM and will report when finished.


Anxiously awaiting your results. I've got my fingers crossed that sneak1413 just got a dog. If your testing mirrors his, then I'm canceling my order for the RPM and switching to a CPXL. Heck, if I'm going to be slow, I may as well have a better-handling bow. LOL!


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

M4Madness said:


> Anxiously awaiting your results. I've got my fingers crossed that sneak1413 just got a dog. If your testing mirrors his, then I'm canceling my order for the RPM and switching to a CPXL. Heck, if I'm going to be slow, I may as well have a better-handling bow. LOL!


Or beg for your 82nd back lol 

Yeah If my wifes doesn't make close to ibo I'll let her pick a new bow or if she just wants to shoot her elite. or I'll have her shoot my cpxl thats a 40-50lbs and about 15 fps faster then her answer is.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

chaded said:


> Yeah...still not seeing it over IBO.


Yeah... I got 335ibo from his numbers


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

The two calculators I used must be messed up then. Lol


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

This is conservative as to the weight on my string. I'm sure it's a bit more than 40 with everything, but yeah, I guess getting 289-290 Fps with my set up doesn't make it's ibo. Haha


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## mikehoyme (Nov 3, 2012)

seiowabow said:


> Yeah... I got 335ibo from his numbers


Gotta remember that monkey tails weigh a ton. That said, I am not getting 8 fps over running the backcountry calculator.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Just shot an carbon OD this afternoon The chrono read 296-297 with a 365dr arrow at 61.4lb and 29in IBO. Felt pretty good to me. Didn't put it on a draw board but felt really close to 29in that it stated. Wasn't dead quiet but wasn't loud by any means pretty much like my Faktors. A little vibration but not bad and the bow I shot was naked.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

mikehoyme said:


> Gotta remember that monkey tails weigh a ton. That said, I am not getting 8 fps over running the backcountry calculator.


Yeah that's true. Chill R is a nice shooting bow either way.


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## bcowette (Jan 11, 2007)

On a bow that's already as quiet as the ChillR I'm not sure why anyone would waste their time with monkey tails and string grubs. Put that weight into your arrow not onto the string.


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## The "WIZARD" (Mar 22, 2006)

mikehoyme said:


> Gotta remember that monkey tails weigh a ton. That said, I am not getting 8 fps over running the backcountry calculator.


I ran a Chill R thru the chrono at the shop a couple weeks ago with and without the Monkey tails... surprisingly I got the same rating either way. Just for comparison, the Energy's gain about 3-4fps without leaches.


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## BCM Archery (Nov 29, 2013)

Additional weight on the string means different things in different places. For example: Adding peep and loop in the center, vs. adding speed nocks nearer the cams will have different results (Speed nocks can increase speeds over a bare string in cases). So, for that IBO calculator - I'd stick to the peep and loop weight.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

M4Madness said:


> Anxiously awaiting your results. I've got my fingers crossed that sneak1413 just got a dog. If your testing mirrors his, then I'm canceling my order for the RPM and switching to a CPXL. Heck, if I'm going to be slow, I may as well have a better-handling bow. LOL!


Crackers just texted me RPM 360 out of the box rest and loop he has done nothing to the bow, no tweaking just set the draw weight 28 3/4" ( it was a 1/4" short )at 60 # IBO arrow 349fps.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

seiowabow said:


> Yeah... I got 335ibo from his numbers


Yeah same here. Realistically I don't believe that the bow is affected as much as he thinks with the weight he has on the string. So when you put a ton of weight on the string into those calculators the calculators don't take that in account and give you a higher calculated IBO number. My old Assassin was a perfect example. That thing shot the same speed with those heavy factory dampener which was like a total of 60 grains then it did without them.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

mikehoyme said:


> Gotta remember that monkey tails weigh a ton. That said, I am not getting 8 fps over running the backcountry calculator.


If you read how I got my numbers, if I maxed my limbs out, and did a true ibo test, bare string without it fully loaded with a peep d loop two monkey tails and 2 grubs it would easily hit 8 Fps over ibo if not more. I'm not sure how much a difference the grubs make in speed.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

bornagain said:


> Crackers just texted me out of the box rest and loop he has done nothing to the bow no tweaking just set the draw weight 28 3/4" ( it was a 1/4" short )at 60 # IBO arrow 349fps.



What was the arrow weight? That seems pretty fast.


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## bcowette (Jan 11, 2007)

The "WIZARD" said:


> I ran a Chill R thru the chrono at the shop a couple weeks ago with and without the Monkey tails... surprisingly I got the same rating either way. Just for comparison, the Energy's gain about 3-4fps without leaches.



I suppose if you put them in the right spot they would act the same as a speed knock. If that's the case you cant count them as weight on the string when calculating IBO.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

bornagain said:


> Crackers just texted me RPM 360 out of the box rest and loop he has done nothing to the bow, no tweaking just set the draw weight 28 3/4" ( it was a 1/4" short )at 60 # IBO arrow 349fps.


Thats good to hear. Now i'm sure he will tune it, string it, and post his numbers soon.


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

bornagain said:


> Crackers just texted me RPM 360 out of the box rest and loop he has done nothing to the bow, no tweaking just set the draw weight 28 3/4" ( it was a 1/4" short )at 60 # IBO arrow 349fps.


If you figure 3-3.5% increase/decrease per inch of draw length, you're looking at a 13.5-15.75 FPS increase to go to 30", which would put it at 362.5-364.75 FPS. Correct?


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

I will buy one just to do some honest average Joe testing against my DNA and Throttle. I am an OK tuner, definitely not in a league of CRACKERS or TONY219er. I am way more the average tuner....similar to what someone is going to get from a descent local proshop. I want to see what these bows are going to do for the AVERAGE guy that doesn't live close to a SUPER-TUNER. I think this is a little more fair comparison to what MOST people are actually going to be buying. 
When I lived in MO, the first two 82nd airborns I bought, I did so from Crackers. The third one I didn't want to make the long drive up to St Joe so I bought it from Millers in Garden city, and lets just say it didn't quite perform like the two I got from Mike...aka (Crackers). However, I do feel that most bows get purchased from AVERAGE tuners at best, not Super Tuners. 
BTW after buying that bow from Millers, well that's when I decided to start tuning my own stuff, and Im glad I did
Mike...not trying to argue, but as far as the Insanities making IBO, well You are not the average bear, and NO AVERAGE bear is going to make those bows hit IBO day in and day out....sorry:wink:


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## turkeysroost (Nov 14, 2009)

chaded said:


> What was the arrow weight? That seems pretty fast.


He said IBO arrow, so I guess it's 5 gpp


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

I just got back from the shop to shoot mine today. Long story short, I can't take delivery today because something's 'off' with the alignment of the bow (I don't want to get into that in this thread), but the replacement (this one was supposed to be mine) should arrive shortly.

Anyway, for the SD guys here: he set the DL to 25.0" even (it wasn't measured, but it felt a bit short to me-that could have been the timing being a little off though), no peep, with the stock string, 292 grn arrow, at 58# (NOT on a digital scale, so that's only a ballpark): shot 290 fps. The cam timing was not perfectly in sync, as I dropped into the valley and thought I hit the wall, but could then pull further to hit a second 'wall'. He looked at it and saw the timing was a little off and should be adjusted. We didn't do this since this bow was being sent back to BT once my replacement shows up.

Sweet bow, liked the grip too. 

Draw cycle at 58# was really stiff initally in the pull, and then gradually ramped down as it went into the valley (which it did very gently). Draw cycle set to 51# was very smooth all the way through-very nice. I'm used to shooting my target bow at 48# so the first time I pulled it at 58# was mostly due to the 10# weight increase from my target bow (HeartBreaker).


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

bornagain said:


> Crackers just texted me RPM 360 out of the box rest and loop he has done nothing to the bow, no tweaking just set the draw weight 28 3/4" ( it was a 1/4" short )at 60 # IBO arrow 349fps.


Just curious to see if Mike can test a DNA at the specs as the above RPM using the same arrow through the same chrono. We should expect somewhere around 340 fps for the DNA. 

Thanks,


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

bornagain said:


> Crackers just texted me RPM 360 out of the box rest and loop he has done nothing to the bow, no tweaking just set the draw weight 28 3/4" ( it was a 1/4" short )at 60 # IBO arrow 349fps.


That's good news. He just messaged me also. His numbers are usually in line with mine, so I have faith it will hit 360. The draw length running a little short is a bonus in my book.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Good news from Crackers. Good to hear a measured DL with the numbers


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

bornagain said:


> Crackers just texted me RPM 360 out of the box rest and loop he has done nothing to the bow, no tweaking just set the draw weight 28 3/4" ( it was a 1/4" short )at 60 # IBO arrow 349fps.


Quite a different story here compared to Sneak's results which I'm not questioning at all. I think there's a good chance he's got a bit of a dog in that particular RPM. 

Reasoning: I just can't see the Overdrive and RPM shooting the same speed. <------- that's what I keep coming back to. I haven't shot a RPM but I took a Overdrive out of the box and put a biscuit on it and d-loop only and it definitely is exceeding IBO (other's results seem to reflect this).

I won't know for sure I guess until I get some time with an RPM of my own. In the last 2 years I've had 4 Bowtechs: 2011 Assassin that shot well over it's IBO, Specialist shooting slightly over, 2012 Insanity cpx shooting 1 fps under, and a CPXL that shoots a solid 5-6 fps under IBO. I spent a lot of time with the CPXL trying to find the speed but it's just not there. What can I say, I got a dog. All the bows were set within an 1/8" of 29. Heck I'm a 29" draw and I have the mods and stops set in the 28.5 settings on the Specialist. Time will tell but some models just seem to have more variance from individual bow to individual bow.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

smhagger707 said:


> I just got back from the shop to shoot mine today. Long story short, I can't take delivery today because something's 'off' with the alignment of the bow (I don't want to get into that in this thread), but the replacement (this one was supposed to be mine) should arrive shortly.
> 
> Anyway, for the SD guys here: he set the DL to 25.0" even (it wasn't measured, but it felt a bit short to me-that could have been the timing being a little off though), no peep, with the stock string, 292 grn arrow, at 58# (NOT on a digital scale, so that's only a ballpark): shot 290 fps. The cam timing was not perfectly in sync, as I dropped into the valley and thought I hit the wall, but could then pull further to hit a second 'wall'. He looked at it and saw the timing was a little off and should be adjusted. We didn't do this since this bow was being sent back to BT once my replacement shows up.
> 
> ...


For comparison, the Insanity CPX that I was shooting was set to 25.5" (with extra twists in the string, but a measured DL of 25-5/8"?), set to 51.96# shooting the same arrow (no peep) was clocking 272 fps. My Heartbreaker was shooting the same arrow at 52.1# set to the 25" setting (measuring 25-3/8" DL) at 267 fps, same arrow, but with a peep sight (12.5 grn). 

Also, the RPM that I was supposed to take delivery of was maxing out at 63#, at the 29" DL. Will the max weight decrease at my shorter DL, or will it still hit 63#? 

Anyone want to post the IBO's for those three setups for me in a single post?


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

smhagger707 said:


> For comparison, the Insanity CPX that I was shooting was set to 25.5" (with extra twists in the string, but a measured DL of 25-5/8"?), set to 51.96# shooting the same arrow (no peep) was clocking 272 fps. My Heartbreaker was shooting the same arrow at 52.1# set to the 25" setting (measuring 25-3/8" DL) at 267 fps, same arrow, but with a peep sight (12.5 grn).
> 
> Also, the RPM that I was supposed to take delivery of was maxing out at 63#, at the 29" DL. Will the max weight decrease at my shorter DL, or will it still hit 63#?
> 
> Anyone want to post the IBO's for those three setups for me in a single post?



Oh yeah: both the RPM and Insanity were shot using the Octane WB-style rest, in case that matters?


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

mongopino915 said:


> Just curious to see if Mike can test a DNA at the specs as the above RPM using the same arrow through the same chrono. We should expect somewhere around 340 fps for the DNA.


To be fair, I would like to see Mike compare against other bone-stock bows to see true speed comparisons. That way, we could eliminate any talk of a "fast" chronograph.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

chaded said:


> What was the arrow weight? That seems pretty fast.


The arrow he uses for 60# bows is either 304gr's or 307grs I can't remember.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

M4Madness said:


> To be fair, I would like to see Mike compare against other bone-stock bows to see true speed comparisons. That way, we could eliminate any talk of a "fast" chronograph.


My RPM will be here tomorrow. I will post numbers ASAP on the RPM, Carbon Overdrive, Full Throttle and DNA SP as a comparison at 29/60. Sounds like the RPM runs a 1/2" shorter than the other bows.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

M4Madness said:


> To be fair, I would like to see Mike compare against other bone-stock bows to see true speed comparisons. That way, we could eliminate any talk of a "fast" chronograph.


In post # 80 Mike stated a stock Full Throttle speeds 28/60 at 354fps and 29/65 at 361fps which is right in line with Scottie and a little less than Breathren was getting after tuning.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Scottie/PA said:


> My RPM will be here tomorrow. I will post numbers ASAP on the RPM, Carbon Overdrive, Full Throttle and DNA SP as a comparison at 29/60. Sounds like the RPM runs a 1/2" shorter than the other bows.


:banana:


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Crackers said:


> All the Insanity's that went through my shop hit their mark but then again I do make sure they are set up correctly.
> 
> Doing a full work up on the RPM and will report when finished. The FT also hits it's IBO but if you read many post here it falls short according to a few. I have a 28/60 FT doing 354 IBO and had a 29/65 that hit 361 IBO


I don't feel that you should have to fine tune the bow or put special diameter string and cables to get a bow to shoot ibo. All these bows where basically pulled out of the box, adjusted weight, timed the cams, put a rest, sight, peep, and loop and shot them. I'm not trying to argue, even if I have a slow chrono it should have been faster, remember I did shoot it at 30" as well.


M4Madness said:


> To be fair, I would like to see Mike compare against other bone-stock bows to see true speed comparisons. That way, we could eliminate any talk of a "fast" chronograph.


I would like to see this as well.


Scottie/PA said:


> My RPM will be here tomorrow. I will post numbers ASAP on the RPM, Carbon Overdrive, Full Throttle and DNA SP as a comparison at 29/60. Sounds like the RPM runs a 1/2" shorter than the other bows.


I felt as if the Hoyt felt the shortest, followed by my sp, then probably the 360. But I never measured them. It did not feel 1/2" short by any means. My full throttle is coming in right under 27 7/8"


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

bornagain said:


> In post # 80 Mike stated a stock Full Throttle speeds 28/60 at 354fps and 29/65 at 361fps which is right in line with Scottie and a little less than Breathren was getting after tuning.


Mine comes in about 15 fps slow in comparison and with stock strings I played with half twists in everything initiallysd couldn't pul more than 2 fps out of it when comparing length and draw weight...


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

sneak1413 said:


> I don't feel that you should have to fine tune the bow or put special diameter string and cables to get a bow to shoot ibo. All these bows where basically pulled out of the box, adjusted weight, timed the cams, put a rest, sight, peep, and loop and shot them.


From the sound of it, that appears to be what Mike did with the RPM today. It also appears to be making IBO bone stock, hence my request to see it compared to something else to eliminate any discrepancy in the chrono.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

M4Madness said:


> From the sound of it, that appears to be what Mike did with the RPM today. It also appears to be making IBO bone stock, hence my request to see it compared to something else to eliminate any discrepancy in the chrono.


Yes he said they were stock strings. I'd also like to add that all my speeds that I give throughout the year are with stock strings, but the bows are not just pulled out of the box. I actually tune each bow. You need to find a new dealer if they pull a bow out of the box and hand it to you like it's already tuned.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Scottie/PA said:


> Yes he said they were stock strings. I'd also like to add that all my speeds that I give throughout the year are with stock strings, but the bows are not just pulled out of the box. I actually tune each bow. You need to find a new dealer if they pull a bow out of the box and hand it to you like it's already tuned.


This is why I go to Scottie, my bows are gone over thoroughly and not just a rest and sight thrown on it and sent out the door.


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## ryno529 (Apr 14, 2013)

i have found Pro Chrono to be the slowest and Easton chronos the fastest with Chrony in the middle and the spread between Easton and Pro Chrono seems about 10FPS in my experience, so who is right ? I look at a chrono as more of a tuning tool so you can set a baseline and figure out if changes you make do any good not necessarily an exact speed. This is why i like this test of shooting all the bows at the same time. It seems as though most manufacturers have 2% tolerance on speeds to be considered acceptable and I feel that is why you see an overlap on these bows. The Carbon Overdrive doesn't shock me compared to the 360 since some guys are claiming that the 360 is 1/4 short on the draw and the brace height between the CO and 360 is only 1/2 inch(CO is 6 1/2 not 7 like the Carbon Knight) . I look at those CO cams and all i see is Destroyer 350 cams so i can easily see those 2 bows shooting the same speeds if you got a hotter CO and a slower 360.


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## turkeysroost (Nov 14, 2009)

chaded said:


> This is why I go to Scottie, my bows are gone over thoroughly and not just a rest and sight thrown on it and sent out the door.


x2.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Scottie/PA said:


> Yes he said they were stock strings. I'd also like to add that all my speeds that I give throughout the year are with stock strings, but the bows are not just pulled out of the box. I actually tune each bow. You need to find a new dealer if they pull a bow out of the box and hand it to you like it's already tuned.


So what is your opinion of tuned? Not being sarcastic in serious. We don't sit and tune each bow for maximum speed, that can take hours and hours. We would not be in business if we did that. If tuned to you is the bow with proper cam rotation, cams in sync or timed, and the bow shooting a bullet hole in paper/broadhead tuned then you do nothing different than we do. Most customers are not willing to pay extra money for a "super" tune for an extra couple fps. Just my experience here each area will be different, our guys just want to be able to shoot accurately usually to at least 50 and be able to do it with broadheads and field points. Some want more some less out of a bow.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

Mike aka " Crackers" always tunes the bows first with the stock strings and see's what he can get out of the bows, verifies string lengths takes notes etc... this is just part of his process. For this purpose with this particular RPM 360 he just wanted to test it how it came from the factory. His intent is to do some tuning and tweaking with the stock strings before he builds a custom set of strings for it. BTW Mike has never used reduced strand count or " special diameter " strings to achieve some of the speeds he get's, now maybe Chinchilla dust but that's another story:zip:.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

bornagain said:


> Mike aka " Crackers" always tunes the bows first with the stock strings and see's what he can get out of the bows, verifies string lengths takes notes etc... this is just part of his process. For this purpose with this particular RPM 360 he just wanted to test it how it came from the factory. His intent is to do some tuning and tweaking with the stock strings before he builds a custom set of strings for it. BTW Mike has never used reduced strand count or " special diameter " strings to achieve some of the speeds he get's, now maybe Chinchilla dust but that's another story:zip:.


I'm pretty sure he has experimented with serving diameter to make the best fit in the cam grooves, I'm pretty sure I seen him post about a long time ago. Maybe he does not anymore, if I was a super tuner and built strings for my speed tunes I would do it, if you don't its kind of silly, there is only loss of time and if that is what you do you have to put in the time to be the best, and I agree he is one of the best.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

Just to clear the air once and for all I DO NOT CUT STRAND COUNT. Any Bowtech dealer can feel free to ask Bowtech as they know exactly how many strands are in my strings. I have a PM address, a email address and a phone number so if you want to know for sure use one.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Crackers said:


> Just to clear the air once and for all I DO NOT CUT STRAND COUNT. Any Bowtech dealer can feel free to ask Bowtech as they know exactly how many strands are in my strings. I have a PM address, a email address and a phone number so if you want to know for sure use one.


Am I wrong that it was you that posted playing with serving diameters to achieve the best finished diameter of the string and cables in the cam track? I am sorry if that was not you that posted it, I know I have done it before with great success. But it was a while ago that I did it. My full throttle is the only bow I have shot that has had a super slim string compared to the cables in respect to strand count. That is the reason I put a bigger set of threads on it.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Mike, I'm sorry if you got upset, I was pretty sure you have either posted about it or pm'd me about it a few years back. It was more of a compliment than a negative comment.


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## mccoppinb (Aug 14, 2012)

Very good review thanks for your time bud.


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## tack09 (Feb 13, 2009)

WOW...One mans turd is another mans diamond!


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

4IDARCHER said:


> Just shot an carbon OD this afternoon The chrono read 296-297 with a 365dr arrow at 61.4lb and 29in IBO. Felt pretty good to me. Didn't put it on a draw board but felt really close to 29in that it stated. Wasn't dead quiet but wasn't loud by any means pretty much like my Faktors. A little vibration but not bad and the bow I shot was naked.


Was that with a peep and a loop?


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## The "WIZARD" (Mar 22, 2006)

The Overdrives that I have worked on so far have been at or above IBO. 1 was 29/70 loop only shooting 332 and the other was 30/72 peep and loop shooting 343 ( arrow was 350gr, so a hair over on draw weight)


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

The one I shot had loop but no peep.


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## turkeysroost (Nov 14, 2009)

Any one else put the 360 through a work out yet?


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## JCole1993 (Aug 21, 2010)

I don't know what to think of this thread really I'm not gonna say I don't believe it but I'm ready to do some testing of my own, I seen your thread yesterday where you said the rpm had no pre lean at brace for the bow to be tuned it needs per lean at brace height, and To say the full throttle is smooth you must either be smoking crack or got a different breed of bow than the one I shot at ata it was at 29" 60 lbs and pulled a lot harsher than the 70lb 29" rpm I shot


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

turkeysroost said:


> Any one else put the 360 through a work out yet?


Did you read my post(s)? I gave chrono results for the one I shot today...


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

OK, so I called the Head Executive Officer at Bowtech earlier today. They just delivered me a Brand new RPM by Helicopter. I have just finished my examination of said product and my findings are as I suspected. I will have everyone know that this bow DID EXCEED 360 IBO!!! As a matter of fact, I have all the test info for anyone who wants it. Just PM me and deposit $29.99 in my paypal, and I will send the info to you. BUT WAIT....THERES MOREI will also include My findings on what reallyhappened at the site of the KENNEDY assassination.

All jokes aside people, no matter what, I know I will own one of these bad boys. I bet it will be an awesome bow no matter what the exact IBO is. I have never shot a Bowtech that wasn't awesome. And I mean NEVER


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## Rod Savini (Nov 23, 2011)

JCole1993 said:


> I don't know what to think of this thread really I'm not gonna say I don't believe it but I'm ready to do some testing of my own, I seen your thread yesterday where you said the rpm had no pre lean at brace for the bow to be tuned it needs per lean at brace height, and To say the full throttle is smooth you must either be smoking crack or got a different breed of bow than the one I shot at ata it was at 29" 60 lbs and pulled a lot harsher than the 70lb 29" rpm I shot


A lot of people are saying the FT is smooth, it isn't sneak


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## JCole1993 (Aug 21, 2010)

Rod Savini said:


> A lot of people are saying the FT is smooth, it isn't sneak


Not saying people aren't buy from my experience I would call it far from smooth it was one of my least favorite bows at ata and I'm not a fanboy of any brand I've owned them all


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Rod Savini said:


> A lot of people are saying the FT is smooth, it isn't sneak


If it's as smooth to me as what people have been claiming I don't see how I won't end up with one unless this RPM360 impresses me more.


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## The "WIZARD" (Mar 22, 2006)

chaded said:


> If it's as smooth to me as what people have been claiming I don't see how I won't end up with one unless this RPM360 impresses me more.


There must have been something wrong with the 29/60 FT I and others shot at the ATA show, because I thought it felt horrible there. However I keep reading that people think it is "smooth"???


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Smooth to me means even all the way back. Doesn't mean it isn't stiff as hell. Also, from what I've been told there is zero valley.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

The "WIZARD" said:


> There must have been something wrong with the 29/60 FT I and others shot at the ATA show, because I thought it felt horrible there. However I keep reading that people think it is "smooth"???


I don't know I haven't shot it yet but plan to this week. I will say that I have talked with a couple people that I highly trust and pretty much tell me like it is and they said it is pretty smooth when set up correctly. Everyone's got different definitions it seems on what is "smooth". Smooth to me is a constant pull all the way back with no dumping or humping. Doesn't mean it is easy to pull because it can be stiff as stiff can be but still be smooth (to me). That's just why I try my best to test bows out that I know are set up like they should be and at my specs, then decide.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

seiowabow said:


> Smooth to me means even all the way back. Doesn't mean it isn't stiff as hell. Also, from what I've been told there is zero valley.


At 25" setting, I would describe it as a triangular draw profile with a rounded peak. It's steep as you start to pull, then gently transitions into a gradual slope down all the way into the valley. 

Hard to comment on the valley, because the cam timing was off.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

smhagger707 said:


> At 25" setting, I would describe it as a triangular draw profile with a rounded peak. It's steep as you start to pull, then gently transitions into a gradual slope down all the way into the valley.
> 
> Hard to comment on the valley, because the cam timing was off.



He's talking about the Full Throttle I believe.


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

Thanks for taking the time and effort to do this...I like to see unbiased, non-fan boy type shooting in a real shop. 

I shot 2 arrows from a Full Throttle and I will say this...it does not shoot like the old Omens. It shoots a very nice for a "speed bow". I have a feeling many people would be surprised how well it shoots. 

It doesn't surprise me the Carbon Overdrive came in last place in everything. I have not shot one but I have shot the Carbon Knight and they are similar. I was test shooting between the Agenda and DNA SP and the shop tech brought me one to try. The first shot I took...I actually started laughing. No kidding I thought they were playing a joke on me the bow felt so bad and almost flew out of my hand at the shot. Terrible engineering example. I can't believe people would buy that bow!


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## PREZ (Dec 17, 2005)

I shot a FT at the Harrisburg show ....60lb, 29" ....that was the worst drawing bow I ever pulled back. Lots bs going around saying they are smooth.


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## The "WIZARD" (Mar 22, 2006)

chaded said:


> I don't know I haven't shot it yet but plan to this week. I will say that I have talked with a couple people that I highly trust and pretty much tell me like it is and they said it is pretty smooth when set up correctly. Everyone's got different definitions it seems on what is "smooth". Smooth to me is a constant pull all the way back with no dumping or humping. Doesn't mean it is easy to pull because it can be stiff as stiff can be but still be smooth (to me). That's just why I try my best to test bows out that I know are set up like they should be and at my specs, then decide.


Makes sense... I guess the the fact that the one I shot had zero valley probably overshadowed pretty much every other aspect of the bow for me. I do remember it not being that bad thru the cycle, but a bear at full draw. I'm guessing the timing was way off on it. I'll guess I'll have to give it a 2nd chance if I get a chance to play with one.


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

My full throttle is smooth 

Smooth to me is not having humps or dumps in the draw

The full throttle picks up right away in the draw force curve and then its a steady even "smooth" pull to the wall, mine has no humps or dumps 

Bows that dump to hard into the valley, 82nd airborne is my best example was not smooth to me


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

chaded said:


> He's talking about the Full Throttle I believe.


err, oops! Sorry about that.  My comments were related to the RPM, not FT-just to be clear...


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

The "WIZARD" said:


> Makes sense... I guess the the fact that the one I shot had zero valley probably overshadowed pretty much every other aspect of the bow for me. I do remember it not being that bad thru the cycle, but a bear at full draw. I'm guessing the timing was way off on it. I'll guess I'll have to give it a 2nd chance if I get a chance to play with one.


Bows like the Full Throttle are definitely not for everyone and may not be for me but I'm to give it a fair try. Also, people are not used to zero valley either and that will take a little time to get accustomed too as well. I remember when I shot the DNA for the first time and it was the first time I shot a bow with no valley. The first couple shots I was like this is crazy but after a few arrows I actually started to like it. Lol.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

chaded said:


> Bows like the Full Throttle are definitely not for everyone and may not be for me but I'm to give it a fair try. Also, people are not used to zero valley either and that will take a little time to get accustomed too as well. I remember when I shot the DNA for the first time and it was the first time I shot a bow with no valley. The first couple shots I was like this is crazy but after a few arrows I actually started to like it. Lol.


Im telling you brother....there is a SERIOUS difference between the DNA and FULL THROTTLE draw cycle. One is butter, the other is pulling a truck out of the mud!! lol


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## Liv4Rut (Mar 24, 2006)

The truth is no matter what these bows specs actually turn out to be to 90% of the people buying them the FT will be a 370ibo and the RPM will be a 360ibo bow. The 10% in the know on AT won't be able to change the 90% opinion on what these bows specs are even with the facts. Heck, most people don't even understand that they won't touch these numbers with shorter draw lengths and heavy hunting arrows. It is hilarious how many people at bowshoots will shoot through a chrono and before hand be like oh this bow is shooting 350fps, nope you are actually shooting 300fps. The looks on their faces are priceless when they see the real numbers. Then of course, the chrono is broken. 

thank you for doing the reviews.


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## Rod Savini (Nov 23, 2011)

chaded said:


> If it's as smooth to me as what people have been claiming I don't see how I won't end up with one unless this RPM360 impresses me more.


I think people have different ideas of smooth. I think the DNA is one of the smoothest bows I have ever shot. No humps and pulls right to wall. Now stiffness might be confused with smoothness IMO. Stiff is how much weight you draw, and some hold more weight through the draw longer. 


I haven't shot the full throttle, but I would like too


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

13bonatter69 said:


> Im telling you brother....there is a SERIOUS difference between the DNA and FULL THROTTLE draw cycle. One is butter, the other is pulling a truck out of the mud!! lol



I was talking about the valley and not the draw cycle. I'm sure the Full Throttle is way stiffer, I mean how else do you get 370 IBO? Lol.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

PREZ said:


> I shot a FT at the Harrisburg show ....60lb, 29" ....that was the worst drawing bow I ever pulled back. Lots bs going around saying they are smooth.


Ok, so I'm a huge fan of Overdrive Binary Bowtechs, so don't take this the wrong way... I also shot "a 60 lb. 29 inch DL Full Throttle" at the Harrisburg sports show at the PSE booth, I'm not sure if it was the one you shot or not. Anyhow, just to demonstrate how subjective a draw force curve is, I absolutely loved how the draw felt on the one I shot. I literally shot it and looked at the bow assuming I heard the guy wrong and he did not actually hand me a 60lb. full throttle. I wasn't trying to shoot any particular bow, but rather I was trying out a release with one of the guys from Lancaster. The PSE guy just thought I should try the FT out I guess. I'm sure he noticed the Bowtech jacket I was wearing when I walked up. He said he thought I might be surprised with the way the draw felt and he was right. He also mentioned before I drew it back that, "it has no valley", and I definitely noticed that as well. He didn't say very short, he said no valley and that describes it to a T. Once again, I am a big fan of Bowtech and will own a RPM, but I did like the the Full Throttle I shot. It was a very nice bow.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

Rod Savini said:


> I think people have different ideas of smooth. I think the DNA is one of the smoothest bows I have ever shot. No humps and pulls right to wall. Now stiffness might be confused with smoothness IMO. Stiff is how much weight you draw, and some hold more weight through the draw longer.
> 
> 
> I haven't shot the full throttle, but I would like too


This is the same way I see it. If something has a large hump and then dumps straight into the back wall, in my mind its not smooth. I can wait till you and Chaded shoot the throttle. I want you guys to PM me and give me your HONEST opinions on the draw cycle and tell me if you think its smooth or not. It is one HECK of a shooter, and that's a fact. Its an amazing bow, but smooth....meh


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

chaded said:


> I was talking about the valley and not the draw cycle. I'm sure the Full Throttle is way stiffer, I mean how else do you get 370 IBO? Lol.


It honestly isn't that stiff in my opinion. I think the draw is ok other than the hump. I will say it shoots awesome, and I cant believe how well it holds on target. It HONESTLY may hold on target better than any bow I have ever shot.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

TheScOuT said:


> Thanks for taking the time and effort to do this...I like to see unbiased, non-fan boy type shooting in a real shop.
> 
> I shot 2 arrows from a Full Throttle and I will say this...it does not shoot like the old Omens. It shoots a very nice for a "speed bow". I have a feeling many people would be surprised how well it shoots.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me the Carbon Overdrive came in last place in everything. I have not shot one but I have shot the Carbon Knight and they are similar. I was test shooting between the Agenda and DNA SP and the shop tech brought me one to try. The first shot I took...I actually started laughing. No kidding I thought they were playing a joke on me the bow felt so bad and almost flew out of my hand at the shot. Terrible engineering example. I can't believe people would buy that bow!


The CO and CK feel nothing alike. Also if you look at his review, the CO had great speed.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

13bonatter69 said:


> This is the same way I see it. If something has a large hump and then dumps straight into the back wall, in my mind its not smooth. I can wait till you and Chaded shoot the throttle. I want you guys to PM me and give me your HONEST opinions on the draw cycle and tell me if you think its smooth or not. It is one HECK of a shooter, and that's a fact. Its an amazing bow, but smooth....meh


I should be shooting it beside the RPM360 this week and you will get my honest thoughts on both of them. I've never held back on things I don't like no matter what the company brand or if it was my favorite. I try to do my best to point out the positives and negatives for me personally. Of course they're just my thoughts and could differ from others.


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

seiowabow said:


> The CO and CK feel nothing alike. Also if you look at his review, the CO had great speed.


I know of course they are different. However...with the many similar parts and design, I don't even want to shoot one. That was thrown out the window with the Carbon Knight test. As far as speed...I don't even chrono my bows, dont care to.


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## cgs1967 (Sep 29, 2011)

bowtech2006 said:


> thanks for the review, wow sucks the 360 isn't making close to IBO. That is disappointing for sure. That is the only bow in review I really care about and by your stats its a turd.


LOL, that is funny.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

chaded said:


> i should be shooting it beside the rpm360 this week and you will get my honest thoughts on both of them. I've never held back on things i don't like no matter what the company brand or if it was my favorite. I try to do my best to point out the positives and negatives for me personally. Of course they're just my thoughts and could differ from others.


word....lol


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## op27 (Jan 12, 2008)

PREZ said:


> I shot a FT at the Harrisburg show ....60lb, 29" ....that was the worst drawing bow I ever pulled back. Lots bs going around saying they are smooth.


The one I shot at harrisburg was 28/60 and its was silky smooth. It drew better than the SP 

Sp was 29



Sean243 said:


> Ok, so I'm a huge fan of Overdrive Binary Bowtechs, so don't take this the wrong way... I also shot "a 60 lb. 29 inch DL Full Throttle" at the Harrisburg sports show at the PSE booth, I'm not sure if it was the one you shot or not. Anyhow, just to demonstrate how subjective a draw force curve is, I absolutely loved how the draw felt on the one I shot. I literally shot it and looked at the bow assuming I heard the guy wrong and he did not actually hand me a 60lb. full throttle. I wasn't trying to shoot any particular bow, but rather I was trying out a release with one of the guys from Lancaster. The PSE guy just thought I should try the FT out I guess. I'm sure he noticed the Bowtech jacket I was wearing when I walked up. He said he thought I might be surprised with the way the draw felt and he was right. He also mentioned before I drew it back that, "it has no valley", and I definitely noticed that as well. He didn't say very short, he said no valley and that describes it to a T. Once again, I am a big fan of Bowtech and will own a RPM, but I did like the the Full Throttle I shot. It was a very nice bow.



yep, loved that bow


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the review sneak. The rpm not making it's claimed IBO has these bowtech fanboys in an uproar. Typical.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

op27 said:


> The one I shot at harrisburg was 28/60 and its was silky smooth. It drew better than the SP
> 
> Sp was 29
> 
> ...


Now you have me wondering if I shot a 28" or 29" there. I'm not entirely sure now. I know it was 60 lbs and reasonably close to a comfortable DL for me.


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## op27 (Jan 12, 2008)

Haha. The reason I know was because the SP keep hitting my coat. So the guy hands me the Ft and say this ones 28 it should fit you better.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

hidden danger said:


> Thanks for the review sneak. The rpm not making it's claimed IBO has these bowtech fanboys in an uproar. Typical.


Haha... I have to disagree with your characterization of this thread resembling an "uproar". I like Bowtech a lot, feel free to characterize me anyway you want. I'm an archery fan first and just got done praising the Full Throttle. As far as the other guys in this thread, I don't see anyone getting upset and defensive. 

The thread seems to have more of a "hmmm that's interesting, let's see some more results then decide" kinda feel to it. jmho


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Yeah I don't see the uproar. It's a good thread with a lot of info.


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## 496 nova (Nov 17, 2012)

I havent shot a bowtech rpm360. But have shot a full throttle and the new hoyts. But people that say there is hump in the draw cycle must have got omen cams because I shot one at 28/60 and it was smooth draw stiff but like my mr5 or safari was. But people that have a hump might need to take it to a shop and figure out what is actually going on. This was a great thread. And to 13bonatter69 a full throttle at 65lbs pulling like a truck stuck in mud. I dont see it but i also like my bows on the 80lb side of things and they still dont pull back worse then a 60lb omen lol.


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

Lots of folks are interested in the RPM speed but only the OP has tested the RPM side by side with other bows and result is not that impressive.

To be honest, perfectly happy with the D350 and Invasion at this time but look forward to more findings to see if this RPM is truly the fastest 6" BH, as advertised.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

The 360 I shot was 2" longer than my draw it was set at 60 lbs. The draw was smooth but felt more like my 68 lb lx. However 2" to long in draw can make things seem harder to pull. I really want to try a 70 lb in my correct draw. The bow was quiet!


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

mongopino915 said:


> Lots of folks are interested in the RPM speed but only the OP has tested the RPM side by side with other bows and result is not that impressive.
> 
> To be honest, *perfectly happy with the D350 and Invasion *at this time but look forward to more findings to see if this RPM is truly the fastest 6" BH, as advertised.


Hey now! I agree 100% man, I still haven't found any bows that top the Invasion and my D340....some have been close but nothing better. IMO everything produced to date would be a sideways move at best.


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

I am a 60# shooter. I would like to see some 60# numbers.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

psychobaby111 said:


> I am a 60# shooter. I would like to see some 60# numbers.


I posted numbers at 58# above. 58#, 25" DL, arrow weight of 292 grn, speed was 290 fps. Timing of cams was a little off, so there's probably a little more speed to be found. Add 10-13 fps / inch of additional DL and you have your 60# number with an IBO arrow. No peep, Octane WB rest.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Tony219er said:


> Hey now! I agree 100% man, I still haven't found any bows that top the Invasion and my D340....some have been close but nothing better. IMO everything produced to date would be a sideways move at best.


Do you still have that amazing snow Invasion?


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

496 nova said:


> I havent shot a bowtech rpm360. But have shot a full throttle and the new hoyts. But people that say there is hump in the draw cycle must have got omen cams because I shot one at 28/60 and it was smooth draw stiff but like my mr5 or safari was. But people that have a hump might need to take it to a shop and figure out what is actually going on. This was a great thread. And to 13bonatter69 a full throttle at 65lbs pulling like a truck stuck in mud. I dont see it but i also like my bows on the 80lb side of things and they still dont pull back worse then a 60lb omen lol.


Ok well since part of this post is directed at me and it seems I am the outcast, maybe I should clarify a tad bit. Like I said, I shot a 70lb omen for two and a half years that maxed at 72lbs and was tuned from Crackers, and it was a smoking fast bow. It definitely had a draw that was worse than the Full throttle by far. As far as shooting 80lb bows and that making a 65lb Throttle seem smooth....NO SIR. I can shoot 80lb bows all day long, and am far from a weakling, shooting the Throttle is not an issue. I just hate to see all the people talking about how smooth the Bow is and how there is NO hump. There are people in parts of the country like me that cant try these bows without driving several hours, some may read these reviews and decided to buy site unseen. For that I want prespective buyers to know that the Throttle is a bow with a definite hump. Also......the bow is tuned VERY well and has bare shafts and fletched arrows slapping.


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

hidden danger said:


> The rpm not making it's claimed IBO has these bowtech fanboys in an uproar. Typical.


I wouldn't call it an uproar, but if a company advertises an IBO rating, then I most certainly expect them to meet it. I'm paying $100 per FPS gain as it is going from a 350 to a 360, and I definitely don't want to spend $1000 to have a bow no better than the one I already had. Thankfully, Crackers' stock RPM looks to be making or exceeding spec, so there's still hope. 

Sneak, sorry to see any negativity in your thread. I understand the time you had to invest in the testing, and I for one appreciate it.


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## MAXXIS31 (Dec 15, 2009)

13bonatter69 said:


> Ok well since part of this post is directed at me and it seems I am the outcast, maybe I should clarify a tad bit. Like I said, I shot a 70lb omen for two and a half years that maxed at 72lbs and was tuned from Crackers, and it was a smoking fast bow. It definitely had a draw that was worse than the Full throttle by far. As far as shooting 80lb bows and that making a 65lb Throttle seem smooth....NO SIR. I can shoot 80lb bows all day long, and am far from a weakling, shooting the Throttle is not an issue. I just hate to see all the people talking about how smooth the Bow is and how there is NO hump. There are people in parts of the country like me that cant try these bows without driving several hours, some may read these reviews and decided to buy site unseen. For that I want prespective buyers to know that the Throttle is a bow with a definite hump. Also......the bow is tuned VERY well and has bare shafts and fletched arrows slapping.


I agree with this 100% i posted on a thread a while about it not being smooth and pretty much got told something must have been really wrong with the bow I shot. I shot it a 58lbs and honestly couldn't put it down fast enough, while it was easy for me to pull back to me it wasn't any fun to shoot, the draw was smooth until the back of the cycle where there is a good sized stiff hump and then the wall. The bow is also no where near dead in hand after the shot, it didn't vibrate but it jumped after the shot slightly, I defiantly wouldn't feel comfortable shooting one without a wrist sling. I think a bunch of guys probably own this bow and don't want to admit these things about a bow they just bought or they haven't actually ever shot a smooth bow. Not trying to get anyone's panties in a bunch but I honestly believe that anyone reading how smooth the FT is and buying one based off of some of the threads on here will be very disappointed in the bow. I don't think people should buy a bow based off of stuff others say or something they read on the web but I assure you they will and I really hope that reading this at least makes them go shoot the bow before buying one.


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

MAXXIS31 said:


> I agree with this 100% i posted on a thread a while about it not being smooth and pretty much got told something must have been really wrong with the bow I shot. I shot it a 58lbs and honestly couldn't put it down fast enough, while it was easy for me to pull back to me it wasn't any fun to shoot, the draw was smooth until the back of the cycle where there is a good sized stiff hump and then the wall. The bow is also no where near dead in hand after the shot, it didn't vibrate but it jumped after the shot slightly, I defiantly wouldn't feel comfortable shooting one without a wrist sling. I think a bunch of guys probably own this bow and don't want to admit these things about a bow they just bought or they haven't actually ever shot a smooth bow. Not trying to get anyone's panties in a bunch but I honestly believe that anyone reading how smooth the FT is and buying one based off of some of the threads on here will be very disappointed in the bow. I don't think people should buy a bow based off of stuff others say or something they read on the web but I assure you they will and I really hope that reading this at least makes them go shoot the bow before buying one.


I agree. I shot a 27/50 at ATA my draw is 27.5. The last 2-3 inches of the draw were the stiffest. It is fairly smooth in transition till the end then there is the big hump. I can say being use to Strothers, Athens and Bowtechs draw there is no way I would want to mess with a 70# FT. Not sure I would want a 60#.

Everyone needs to shoot a bow to form their own opinion. The Carbon Overdrive is a nice bow, nothing like the Knight. Smooth , light and fast. The 360 I shot was a 27.5/70 which I wish they made it in 65#. If I was to get one I would get a 60# the 70# pulled harder than what I am use to, but that is why it is faster than what I am use to also.


Just to add for the PSE bows, remember they have a lower letoff% also.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm hoping the FT and the 360 will be available to shoot at the Iowa Deer Classic this weekend.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

pointndog said:


> The 360 I shot was a 27.5/70 which I wish they made it in 65#. If I was to get one I would get a 60# the 70# pulled harder than what I am use to, but that is why it is faster than what I am use to also.


Maybe this will help: the bow I was supposed to take home yesterday was a 60# bow. It maxed out at 63#. I shot it at 58# and 52# and think 63# is more than enough for me. At 58# it was quite a bit to pull. Granted, I've been pulling my 48# Heartbreaker mostly of late for target shooting, so that's what I'm used to. At 52# the RPM pulled very smoothly-way better than the heartbreaker-so it was likely the 10# jump in draw weight that made the bow feel so stiff to me. Hopefully today my replacement will arrive and I'll start shooting that one at 50-52# right off the bat so I get a better assessment of the draw cycle.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

Last year when the DNA came out I went and shot it , at the shorter draw lengths ( 29 and under it drew very nice ) but at 30 it was terrible ! These speed bows seem to get a lot harder to draw above 29 and from what I've been told the rpm is also has a big hump hard dump at 30 . Has anybody shot the rpm at 30 inches and how was the draw cycle ?


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

*My first RPM has arrived. I spent only 5 minutes tuning it. Synced cams and papertuned quickly. It was a 29" draw and set on exactly 60# with just a dloop. 300 grain arrow shot 344.5 three times. Enter that into the backcountry calculator and you get 360 FPS IBO. 

The draw length was measured at 28 15/16", so its 1/4" to 1/2" shorter than most bows . Will do a more extensive review when I get time tomorrow. *


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Scottie/PA said:


> *My first RPM has arrived. I spent only 5 minutes tuning it. Synced cams and papertuned quickly. It was a 29" draw and set on exactly 60# with just a dloop. 300 grain arrow shot 344.5 three times. Enter that into the backcountry calculator and you get 360 FPS IBO.
> 
> The draw length was measured at 28 15/16", so its 1/4" to 1/2" shorter than most bows . Will do a more extensive review when I get time tomorrow. *



:high5:


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## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

Awesome


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## GrooGrux (Jun 3, 2009)

Scottie/PA said:


> *My first RPM has arrived. I spent only 5 minutes tuning it. Synced cams and papertuned quickly. It was a 29" draw and set on exactly 60# with just a dloop. 300 grain arrow shot 344.5 three times. Enter that into the backcountry calculator and you get 360 FPS IBO.
> 
> The draw length was measured at 28 15/16", so its 1/4" to 1/2" shorter than most bows . Will do a more extensive review when I get time tomorrow. *




So the question is, is the RPM just that less efficient at shorter draw lengths.....or did sneak get a dud.


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## dbowhunter (Jul 16, 2006)

Scottie/PA said:


> *My first RPM has arrived. I spent only 5 minutes tuning it. Synced cams and papertuned quickly. It was a 29" draw and set on exactly 60# with just a dloop. 300 grain arrow shot 344.5 three times. Enter that into the backcountry calculator and you get 360 FPS IBO.
> 
> The draw length was measured at 28 15/16", so its 1/4" to 1/2" shorter than most bows . Will do a more extensive review when I get time tomorrow. *


Scottie, that sounds great. I'm looking forward to taking a 360 for a ride!!


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## Toddk31 (Feb 11, 2007)

krojemann said:


> So the question is, is the RPM just that less efficient at shorter draw lengths.....or did sneak get a dud.


Well if you look at all of Sneaks speeds, I would say his chrono is a dud as well as his tuning. Lol


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

Scottie/PA said:


> *My first RPM has arrived. I spent only 5 minutes tuning it. Synced cams and papertuned quickly. It was a 29" draw and set on exactly 60# with just a dloop. 300 grain arrow shot 344.5 three times. Enter that into the backcountry calculator and you get 360 FPS IBO.
> 
> The draw length was measured at 28 15/16", so its 1/4" to 1/2" shorter than most bows . Will do a more extensive review when I get time tomorrow. *


Who does anything with a 300 grain arrow...for anything ever? Got any "real world" arrows that were tested...say 380-420 grain range?


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

Scottie/PA said:


> *My first RPM has arrived. I spent only 5 minutes tuning it. Synced cams and papertuned quickly. It was a 29" draw and set on exactly 60# with just a dloop. 300 grain arrow shot 344.5 three times. Enter that into the backcountry calculator and you get 360 FPS IBO.
> 
> The draw length was measured at 28 15/16", so its 1/4" to 1/2" shorter than most bows . Will do a more extensive review when I get time tomorrow. *


Please include shooting side by side with other speed bows using the same arrow through the same chrono. for apple to apple comparison as part of your extensive review. Just curious to see if this RPM is the real deal or just ...................


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

TheScOuT said:


> Who does anything with a 300 grain arrow...for anything ever? Got any "real world" arrows that were tested...say 380-420 grain range?


Plenty of ppl shoot 3d with that weight. Yes I am curious as well about heavy arrows


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

JCole1993 said:


> I don't know what to think of this thread really I'm not gonna say I don't believe it but I'm ready to do some testing of my own, I seen your thread yesterday where you said the rpm had no pre lean at brace for the bow to be tuned it needs per lean at brace height, and To say the full throttle is smooth you must either be smoking crack or got a different breed of bow than the one I shot at ata it was at 29" 60 lbs and pulled a lot harsher than the 70lb 29" rpm I shot


Tuning and timing in the full throttle make a big difference in the draw cycle and the 'hump'. Of all the bows I was shooting, it was the easiest to draw, had I been sitting in a treestand in freezing temperatures, it would have been the bow I would have wanted to draw, it was much less weight as well, had it been a 70 lb bow it would not have been at the top.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

TheScOuT said:


> Who does anything with a 300 grain arrow...for anything ever? Got any "real world" arrows that were tested...say 380-420 grain range?


That's called an IBO weight arrow. 5gpp. Obviously it wasn't a 70# bow so I did not do a 350grain arrow. If I get some time I will run some heavier arrows.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

So two very reputable guys here on AT, Crackers and PA Scottie both have bows out of the box meeting IBO I do not have a concern in the world about the bow. 

BTW I very much appreciate sneak doing all the work that he did as well so Thank You.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

mongopino915 said:


> Please include shooting side by side with other speed bows using the same arrow through the same chrono. for apple to apple comparison as part of your extensive review. Just curious to see if this RPM is the real deal or just ...................


Its the real deal. The draw cycle is super nice too. If I get some time I will do a 3 or 4 bow comparison.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

PREZ said:


> I shot a FT at the Harrisburg show ....60lb, 29" ....that was the worst drawing bow I ever pulled back. Lots bs going around saying they are smooth.


What is your draw length? They draw worse at longer draws. The rpm is the worst drawing bow u have shot at 30".


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

13bonatter69 said:


> Ok well since part of this post is directed at me and it seems I am the outcast, maybe I should clarify a tad bit. Like I said, I shot a 70lb omen for two and a half years that maxed at 72lbs and was tuned from Crackers, and it was a smoking fast bow. It definitely had a draw that was worse than the Full throttle by far. As far as shooting 80lb bows and that making a 65lb Throttle seem smooth....NO SIR. I can shoot 80lb bows all day long, and am far from a weakling, shooting the Throttle is not an issue. I just hate to see all the people talking about how smooth the Bow is and how there is NO hump. There are people in parts of the country like me that cant try these bows without driving several hours, some may read these reviews and decided to buy site unseen. For that I want prespective buyers to know that the Throttle is a bow with a definite hump. Also......the bow is tuned VERY well and has bare shafts and fletched arrows slapping.


Shorter draw lengths always lead to less hump in the draw or a smoother drawing bow. Just thought I would post this for about the 5th time.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

sneak1413 said:


> Shorter draw lengths always lead to less hump in the draw or a smoother drawing bow. Just thought I would post this for about the 5th time.


Is this due to the 'incomplete' cam rotation at the shorter DL's? Both the Insanity (at 25.5") and RPM (at 25") stop rotating when the 'pointed part of the cam lobe' is pointing straight forward. For comparison: on my Heartbreaker, set to 25", the lobe rotate until they point upwards.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

sneak1413 said:


> What is your draw length? They draw worse at longer draws. The rpm is the? worst drawing bow u have shot at 30".


Yeah the experience was horrible at 31" draw, but one guy on here would always jump all over me for saying that cause he had one at 31" draw and thought it was soooo smooth and great but I guess he had a special experience at 31". I always like a bow to go past my draw length so I don't get the end of the cam draw feel. 

Thanks scottie , sneak and crackers for your time and posts.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

M4Madness said:


> I wouldn't call it an uproar, but if a company advertises an IBO rating, then I most certainly expect them to meet it. I'm paying $100 per FPS gain as it is going from a 350 to a 360, and I definitely don't want to spend $1000 to have a bow no better than the one I already had. Thankfully, Crackers' stock RPM looks to be making or exceeding spec, so there's still hope.
> 
> Sneak, sorry to see any negativity in your thread. I understand the time you had to invest in the testing, and I for one appreciate it.


There is a lot of people saying that their chronograph a are slow but I thing that a few of these super tuners have fast chrono's, just because you find the model of chrono that's the fastest and know where the sweet spot is on it does not mean that it is correct and other chrono's read slow. Now this is just my opinion and it is not backed up by anything, but if 80% of the chrono's read the same, other chrono's are a little slow or a little fast, the the super tuners can pull bows out if the box and they always shoot 10 fps faster than what other post wouldn't that make them the outliers in the data? I'm not saying these super tuners are liars or cheaters or anything I'm just throwing thoughts out there because everybody wants their opinion on speed and if they can get it its ok but if somebody else who may or may not be credible(there are a few who don't like me cuz I don't hide my thoughts finding and opinions) says that they are only getting xxx out of the bow its assumed they don't know what they are doing. This is a general statement may I remind you. I stated that I did not go through an extensive tune on any of these bows, matter of fact my full throttle is way out of spec to get the draw length that I like right now. The others where just grabbed off the shelf that where setup as demos, set the length and weight, checked that the timing was close by just drawing the bow and shot each one through the chrono. Each of the bows I'm sure I could squeeze a couple fps out of by fine tuning the cans for speed but usually that it equates to 2-5 fps. That was not what I was trying to do here, many shops are only going to time and paper tune your bow(yes that's what about 90% of shops do) and this was the result. Could you get faster or slower bows? Yes I'm not saying that it can't or won't happen but I think this is one of the fairest most unbiased tests posted on here to date.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

krojemann said:


> So the question is, is the RPM just that less efficient at shorter draw lengths.....or did sneak get a dud.


I posted a 30" draw spec as well...could be a variation in chrono as well.


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## bowfamily9 (Aug 2, 2011)

Did you chono it indoors? Indoors always read slower even with light kits . Outside on a partly cloudy day is best. Your chono shows a lot slower than the south african review on the RPM on you tube. He shot a 324 gr arrow at 60 lbs 28 inch draw at 323. Thanks for the effort to give us some numbers


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

bowfamily9 said:


> Did you chono it indoors? Indoors always read slower even with light kits . Outside on a partly cloudy day is best. Your chono shows a lot slower than the south african review on the RPM on you tube. He shot a 324 gr arrow at 60 lbs 28 inch draw at 323. Thanks for the effort to give us some numbers


Yes it was indoors I did this between two of my other jobs at about 1 in the morning. It was a comparison if apples to apples not a lets see if I can get the fastest chrono readings on at. The numbers themselves are irrelevant in my opinion, it's the bow to bow that I wanted people to see. If I sent my bow to crackers it would be faster shooting through his chrono I have no doubt in my mind. His speeds are at 28" mine is at 27.5" and they are 6fos apart, looks like there are shooting almost the exact same speed readings.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

That's what I took away from this. Even if your chronograph is slow, it still shows how they compare.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

In comparison, my Carbon Overdrive IBO's at 350, so 10 fps slower than my RPM. The CO also runs 1/2" longer on the draw length. 

I can personally shoot the RPM at 29" and the CO at 28.5". Shooting the same arrow I would have 15 fps difference.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Scottie/PA said:


> In comparison, my Carbon Overdrive IBO's at 350, so 10 fps slower than my RPM. The CO also runs 1/2" longer on the draw length.
> 
> I can personally shoot the RPM at 29" and the CO at 28.5". Shooting the same arrow I would have 15 fps difference.


Reasoning why our results vary so much? My numbers are almost identical to the numbers posted in the video review from south africa. His numbers are 6 fps faster with an extra 1/2" of draw, our COD come in the same but your RPM is 15 fps faster than mine and the South Africa bow?

Edit: Not calling you out, just trying to figure out of these thing vary by over 15 fps or if something else is up. Maybe they are extremely finicky to tuning?


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

sneak1413 said:


> Reasoning why our results vary so much? My numbers are almost identical to the numbers posted in the video review from south africa. His numbers are 6 fps faster with an extra 1/2" of draw, our COD come in the same but your RPM is 15 fps faster than mine and the South Africa bow?


The guy from South Africa is getting 358 IBO from the RPM360. Yours is not.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

Well, I just shot the RPM, and I must say. ...I think it is the smoothest bow I've ever shot. As bad as it pains me to say this, it is as smooth or possibly SMOOTHER than my DNA. I must admit I am shocked. Way to go bowtech.... instant homerun! !!!


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

chaded said:


> The guy from South Africa is getting 358 IBO from the RPM360. Yours is not.


Via a calculator which IMHO is a joke...Look at the actual numbers please.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

13bonatter69 said:


> Well, I just shot the RPM, and I must say. ...I think it is the smoothest bow I've ever shot. As bad as it pains me to say this, it is as smooth or possibly SMOOTHER than my DNA. I must admit I am shocked. Way to go bowtech.... instant homerun! !!!


Nice. Can't wait to shoot it tomorrow.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

13bonatter69 said:


> Well, I just shot the RPM, and I must say. ...I think it is the smoothest bow I've ever shot. As bad as it pains me to say this, it is as smooth or possibly SMOOTHER than my DNA. I must admit I am shocked. Way to go bowtech.... instant homerun! !!!


I said the same thing, the bow shot extremely well. I shot it an my DNA sp back to back and they shot very very similiar. Little more letoff, and just a hair more buzz than my DNA sp. I said this whole time that the bow shot really really well, even if it was a little slow of ibo and similiar in speed to the others.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

sneak1413 said:


> Reasoning why our results vary so much? My numbers are almost identical to the numbers posted in the video review from south africa. His numbers are 6 fps faster with an extra 1/2" of draw, our COD come in the same but your RPM is 15 fps faster than mine and the South Africa bow?
> 
> Edit: Not calling you out, just trying to figure out of these thing vary by over 15 fps or if something else is up. Maybe they are extremely finicky to tuning?


I'd say your RPM has some issues if you are saying it shoots the same speed as the CO. My CO is 10fps slower, as it should be.

Bowtech would not rate 2 bows 18 fps apart and have them shoot the same speed. I think the error is in your results.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

Nothing for sure here unless sneak or Scottie decide to make a road trip to the other's local with their RPM in tow, but I'd say this whole thing just might boil down to one of the bows being slow. I don't know.

Wouldn't it be crazy if the 60 pounders just sling a 300~ grn. arrow faster than the 70 pounders can spit out a 350~ grain arrow....


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Scottie/PA said:


> I'd say your RPM has some issues if you are saying it shoots the same speed as the CO. My CO is 10fps slower, as it should be.


Why though? It hit its peak weight, the timing marks on the back of the cam showed the cables being just inside the over rotated set of rotation/timing dots(fully inside both dots), stops hit perfectly together at full draw, very solid wall may i add. Maybe I will double check the carbon OD speeds for that is the one I feel could have been off but I am pretty confident in the 360 setup and timing. It was late and possibly could have set one or the other to the wrong setting but mine and the SA review showed similiar results, you and crackers are the only ones posting faster numbers thus far.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

sneak1413 said:


> Via a calculator which IMHO is a joke...Look at the actual numbers please.


I did. I find it interesting when I brought up before that he got 358 IBO out of his at 60# and 28" you just happened to ask if he got 323 which is what he would of needed to hit for a 358 IBO. Then after I posted the video showing that he did hit that you said you must have messed your math up the first time. Was you using the calculator the first time to calculate what it should of been or it was just a coincidence that you just happen to mess up your math and guess the correct number the calculator gave?


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

chaded said:


> I did. I find it interesting when I brought up before that he got 358 IBO out of his at 60# and 28" you just happened to ask if he got 323 which is what he would of needed to hit for a 358 IBO. Then after I posted the video showing that he did hit that you said you must have messed your math up the first time. Was you using the calculator the first time to calculate what it should of been or it was just a coincidence that you just happen to mess up your math and guess the correct number the calculator gave?


It was just a coincidence. Or I am just going nuts with lack of sleep.... I use the 3 gns=1fps, 1"=10fps and peep and loop=5fps and do the math from there to achieve 5 gpp and 30"


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

sneak1413 said:


> Why though? It hit its peak weight, the timing marks on the back of the cam showed the cables being just inside the over rotated set of rotation/timing dots(fully inside both dots), stops hit perfectly together at full draw, very solid wall may i add. Maybe I will double check the carbon OD speeds for that is the one I feel could have been off but I am pretty confident in the 360 setup and timing. It was late and possibly could have set one or the other to the wrong setting but mine and the SA review showed similiar results, you and crackers are the only ones posting faster numbers thus far.


A lot of us on here use the Blue Shooting Chronys. I think you will find that Shane, John, and Tony will all come up with the same numbers I did. 

I don't know why your 2 Bowtechs are shooting similar speeds. All I can tell you is that my RPM shoots 10 fps faster than the CO.


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## Toddk31 (Feb 11, 2007)

sneak1413 said:


> It was just a coincidence. Or I am just going nuts with lack of sleep.... I use the 3 gns=1fps, 1"=10fps and peep and loop=5fps and do the math from there to achieve 5 gpp and 30"


it should be more like 2 grains = 1 fps.....at least that is what I always see.


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## nwmn (Mar 2, 2010)

Seems like the OD is a barn burner.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

sneak1413 said:


> Ok guys the results are in. I just setup all bows, shot the same arrow 3 times each through the chrono and took the average. Here is my results, flame on:
> RPM 360: 27.5" draw 70.6# 351 gn arrow 317fps, 508gn arrow 266fps
> RPM 360: 30" draw 351 gn arrow 347fps
> Carbon Overdrive: 27.5" draw 70.5# 351 gn arrow 317fps, 508 gn arrow 268 fps
> ...


My method of calculating ibo using the 351 gn arrow comes to:
360: 346fps
COD: 346fps
DNA: 344fps
DNA SP: 344fps
FT: 360fps
CST: 343fps


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Toddk31 said:


> it should be more like 2 grains = 1 fps.....at least that is what I always see.


That may be so but my numbers all come up real close to ibo or just shy on most of my calculations, and with the 360's case my number comes up to the same as it shot, but we have been told that the 360 looses a little extra per inch of draw length than others. My ibo calc includes not having a peep or loop, just a nock point.


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## Toddk31 (Feb 11, 2007)

sneak1413 said:


> My method of calculating ibo using the 351 gn arrow comes to:
> 360: 346fps
> COD: 346fps
> DNA: 344fps
> ...


I have seen John(Breathn) post numbers 15 fps faster than your FT. I think you need to scrap your chrono.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Scottie/PA said:


> A lot of us on here use the Blue Shooting Chronys. I think you will find that Shane, John, and Tony will all come up with the same numbers I did.
> 
> I don't know why your 2 Bowtechs are shooting similar speeds. All I can tell you is that my RPM shoots 10 fps faster than the CO.


Didn't the other guy use a pro chrono as well? Maybe they are just all slow? maybe the blue shooting chronys are fast? I will do some more research on my end this weekend, maybe do a little tweaking. How did the timing marks sound on mine compared to yours?

Edit: are you also shooting the bows with a peep and loop? I just don't see where I(or any other tuner for that matter) could pick up 15 fps. The bow i shot did shoot 347 with a peep and loop which is about 352 ibo, which is only 8 fps short. How you can get over ibo pulling out of the box I am not sure. I think I read somewhere that all the 360's must shoot 352 or better before shipping, which puts the one in our shop right at spec???


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Toddk31 said:


> I have seen John(Breathn) post numbers 15 fps faster than your FT. I think you need to scrap your chrono.


As I have posted before, at our shop we don't push high ibo numbers, we compare our customers bows before and after a tune, or old bow vs. new bow. My chrono is shooting within spec of bowtech, double check I don't see the range on their website anymore, maybe they don't do that anymore, they used to do a range of 8 fps as most companies do. Maybe I am wrong and am loosing my mind...


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## MAXXIS31 (Dec 15, 2009)

sneak1413 said:


> My method of calculating ibo using the 351 gn arrow comes to:
> 360: 346fps
> COD: 346fps
> DNA: 344fps
> ...





MAXXIS31 said:


> Since nobody has posted them here are all of the calculated IBO's based off of your results using Back County's Calculator:
> 
> *Bow / Adv. IBO / IBO-351gr / IBO-508gr / Differential from Adv. IBO*
> 
> ...


Your calculations are really close to what I came up with on the Back Country calculator.


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## Toddk31 (Feb 11, 2007)

sneak1413 said:


> Didn't the other guy use a pro chrono as well? Maybe they are just all slow? maybe the blue shooting chronys are fast? I will do some more research on my end this weekend, maybe do a little tweaking. How did the timing marks sound on mine compared to yours?
> 
> Edit: are you also shooting the bows with a peep and loop? I just don't see where I(or any other tuner for that matter) could pick up 15 fps. The bow i shot did shoot 347 with a peep and loop which is about 352 ibo, which is only 8 fps short. How you can get over ibo pulling out of the box I am not sure. I think I read somewhere that all the 360's must shoot 352 or better before shipping, which puts the one in our shop right at spec???


So you and Scottie are only 8 fps apart. His did 360. Big deal!!! I guarantee its the difference in chronographs. Why do you keep crying about it? I have to agree that something is wrong in that your C. Overdrive shot the same as the 360.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

MAXXIS31 said:


> Your calculations are really close to what I came up with on the Back Country calculator.


What was the the one the other guy used to get a 358 ibo out of his on the video? Mine and his are like within 3 fps of each other in the shot speeds if you take 5ish fps for the 1/2" of draw length.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

I agree, its not a huge deal, but I would like to find out why some thing this bow is drastically slow which is not. The real confusing one is how fast the carbon overdrive was. There where rumors out before they started shipping that the two would shoot similar speeds at shorter draw lengths, and that's what I found, but others think there is something wrong.


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

Toddk31 said:


> I have seen John(Breathn) post numbers 15 fps faster than your FT. I think you need to scrap your chrono.


I think you need to understand that it is not so much about the RPM coming under the advertised IBO but rather about the RPM not comparing favorable to the other bows that were tested side by side. There is no such thing as an accurate chrono. unless you have it routinely calibrated and certified. Just because the chronos used by Cracker/Breathn/Scottie show higher speeds, this does not mean that the bows they tested are any faster. Just saying.


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## MAXXIS31 (Dec 15, 2009)

I haven't seen the video but I can tell you that I don't think your chrono is off to much because you are getting the same IBO with the CST that I came up with mine. The rest of the bows seem about right where they should be except the 360 and I agree with some others that the RPM must be out of whack.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

Eugene, Oregon November 2013 - Bowtech Corporate Headquarters:

Meeting of executives, marketing, and product engineers.... Hey you know how we have these 2 bows that shoot basically the same speed, one light weight carbon and the aluminum one with the new technology/cams/less brace height...

Well PSE's speed bow is rated at 370, why don't we advertise the aluminum bow at just 10 fps slower than the PSE even though it's not even close. Meanwhile we'll be giving the customers a perceived choice between a fast light weight bow and a faster/new tech but heavier bow even though that's not really the case...

If you think that's probably how it went down then that explains why the first review from this continent has both bows seemingly performing the same.

If you're like me and are pretty sure that's not something that would go on, then that means there is something else going on. Those other possibilities are many.

This is not directed at you sneak, just a stab at some humor and an attempt to sort this out. I think you got what you got, I'm just not sure why, but I don't think my imagined scenario is it.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

mongopino915 said:


> I think you need to understand that it is not so much about the RPM coming under the advertised IBO but rather about the RPM not comparing favorable to the other bows that were tested side by side. There is not such thing as an accurate chrono. unless you have it routinely calibrated and certified. Just because the chronos used by Cracker/Breathn/Scottie show higher speeds, this does not mean that the bows they tested are any faster. Just saying.


Bingo!


MAXXIS31 said:


> I haven't seen the video but I can tell you that I don't think your chrono is off to much because you are getting the same IBO with the CST that I came up with mine. The rest of the bows seem about right where they should be except the 360 and I agree with some others that the RPM must be out of whack.


Both the RPM and my personal FT are coming in slower than advertised more so than the rest. All the other models are really close to ibo give or take. I know my full throttle is (detuned) as some would put it and I know there is at least another 5 fps I could get out of it. But at that point it is too long for my preferred draw length(27.5" cam comes in longer than others, not sure why but my 27" cam was wayyy to short for me) so it is not reaching the potential speeds that it is capable of. I actually talked to breathn about the my FT and the draw length and my personal 27.5" cam comes in longer than anything he has tested as well. My 27" cam came in just as he has seen them come in. From the factory my FT was a hair over 28", now it is 27 3/4". My 27" cam came in a hair over 27 1/4". So each bow is a little different but all others seemed to test spot on. Even at 30" though the 360 came in at a 352 ibo which is not slow, and it was a pleasure to shoot at the 27.5" position but beware if you are a 30" draw shooter cuz it gets nasty our that long.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Sean243 said:


> Eugene, Oregon November 2013 - Bowtech Corporate Headquarters:
> 
> Meeting of executives, marketing, and product engineers.... Hey you know how we have these 2 bows that shoot basically the same speed, one light weight carbon and the aluminum one with the new technology/cams/less brace height...
> 
> ...


Personally I feel that bowtech has a cam system that does very well at shorter draw lenghts(COD) and a bow that falls a little short at the shorter lengths(RPM), but the RPM shoots night and day difference. Let me put it this way, if I was to buy and shoot a bowtech this year, there is no way I would personally get a COD, the RPM was easier to draw, much quieter, and had almost no jump on the shot. Look at my personal opinionated ratings. The only bow that did not feel good or high end in all of the testing was the COD. Every other rating I did was off of extremely nit picky details. Any way you put it the 360 is a winner, if you needed a 360 fps bow, or you needed a bow to do 330+ at 27.5" draw, the only bow that will do it is the full throttle, maybe that apa, but I have not seen it or heard of anyone even shooting it personally.


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## Dust'em (Apr 8, 2011)

bowtech2006 said:


> Yeah the experience was horrible at 31" draw, but one guy on here would always jump all over me for saying that cause he had one at 31" draw and thought it was soooo smooth and great but I guess he had a special experience at 31". I always like a bow to go past my draw length so I don't get the end of the cam draw feel.
> 
> Thanks scottie , sneak and crackers for your time and posts.


I shot the RPM yesterday and at 29" 72lbs it felt pretty good to me, at 30", not so good. Same with the OD, at 30" I could feel what you were talking about. My Experience with a 30.5" DL feels nothing like either one of these draws do, nor do they feel anything like my D340 at 31". The FT I shot at 71lbs sucked!


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

sneak1413 said:


> Personally I feel that bowtech has a cam system that does very well at shorter draw lenghts(COD) and a bow that falls a little short at the shorter lengths(RPM), but the RPM shoots night and day difference. Let me put it this way, if I was to buy and shoot a bowtech this year, there is no way I would personally get a COD, the RPM was easier to draw, much quieter, and had almost no jump on the shot. Look at my personal opinionated ratings. The only bow that did not feel good or high end in all of the testing was the COD. Every other rating I did was off of extremely nit picky details. Any way you put it the 360 is a winner, if you needed a 360 fps bow, or you needed a bow to do 330+ at 27.5" draw, the only bow that will do it is the full throttle, maybe that apa, but I have not seen it or heard of anyone even shooting it personally.


I have only shot the Carbon Overdrive and not the RPM. I want to shoot the RPM, trust me. The Overdrive I set up and shot was fast, faster than rated. However it was not my cup of tea and I'm not interested in owning one. I'm looking forward to shooting a RPM but my shop won't have one in till next week. Maybe I'll have to figure out how far away SH Archery is from me.... Haha


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

I would like to throw a couple more things out there as well. Some of the great AT super tuners that have posted here have not shot these bows at the shorter draw lengths that I did this test at. They are showing bigger differences in the two bowtechs mentioned. This is a known fact by bowtech and techs that have shot and tested these two bows at the shorter draw lengths that the COD is a phenomenal bow at shorter draw lengths when it comes to speed. It is also known the the peak performance for smoothness and speed on the rpm 360 is at 29", you will gain less per inch going to 30" and you will loose more going shorter in draw length. The feel and draw is also pretty optimized at that 29" draw length. We have a 28.5" draw 65lb full throttle in the shop and I am hoping that within the next week or two I can do another test with all of these bows and a few more at those specs for comparison. In that test I will measure the actual draw length, and I will set them up accordingly so they are much more comparable in both length and weight. I will try to get all bows with 1/4" of draw length and within .5# of weight and I will again shoot different weight arrows and post them up(hopefully 3 weights). This will be more comparable for the average bowhunter, that doesn't shoot 70lbs and the average guy is much closer to 28.5" than the 27.5" of draw. I used 27.5" because this is my draw length, and I used 2 of my personal bows in the comparison.


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

Sneak1413, I for one appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to do the testing. And I think that comparing bows is a more fair way than just shooting one and looking at the chrono. Perhaps just making sure they are all the same poundage and draw length would go a long ways. The big disappointment in your testing was the RPM falling so far behind, which it never should have done.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

M4Madness said:


> Sneak1413, I for one appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to do the testing. And I think that comparing bows is a more fair way than just shooting one and looking at the chrono. Perhaps just making sure they are all the same poundage and draw length would go a long ways. The big disappointment in your testing was the RPM falling so far behind, which it never should have done.


I do not think it is as far behind as others have excelled. It still ibo's at about 352 according to my chrono(which I'm told is slow). The next test everthing will be a little closer to the same weight. The two pse bows peaked at the weight they where tested at and I did not have time to twist strings and cables to get them to peak weight. I have noticed that recently our pse bows have been coming in a little short of peak weight by a pound or two. Very well could just be string stretch but I have checked our scale with 2 others and they read the same.


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

sneak1413 said:


> I do not think it is as far behind as others have excelled. It still ibo's at about 352 according to my chrono(which I'm told is slow).


I was just going by this: 



> *RPM 360: 30" draw 351 gn arrow 347fps*


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

I would much rather see more actual comparisons like sneak did than just hear so and so say that they ran just a single bow through the chrono. The reason being is that there are fast and slow chronos out there, different lighting yields different results, etc...

As an example, a couple years ago dealers started complaining and some even sending all their bows back to Strother Archery because they were all coming up 15fps short of IBO. Strother obviously looked into it and investigated. Their answer was that they used Crackers chrono when they were deciding on the speed ratings and after getting bows sent back to them they went and shot through several other chronos...low and behold the results were much lower than the numbers they got on Crackers chrono so they then stated that his chrono is hot and they wont use it anymore.

This information was posted by an employee of strother on a different archery forum a couple years ago...now ive been told by bornagain(crackers employee) that this is not how it went down, but obviously they would have a vested interest in denying that their chrono is hot while i cant comtemplate any reason whatsoever that would make Strother lie and blame Crackers chrono


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

M4Madness said:


> I was just going by this:


Yes that is still slow but that is with a peep and loop which gives it a 352 ibo. With our chrono supposedly being slow that means it is still right in there for being in the range of ibo. Biggest thing is that it looses speed with shorter draw lengths. I bet it will fair better when I do the 28.5" draw test.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

ChuckA84 said:


> I would much rather see more actual comparisons like sneak did than just hear so and so say that they ran just a single bow through the chrono. The reason being is that there are fast and slow chronos out there, different lighting yields different results, etc...
> 
> As an example, a couple years ago dealers started complaining and some even sending all their bows back to Strother Archery because they were all coming up 15fps short of IBO. Strother obviously looked into it and investigated. Their answer was that they used Crackers chrono when they were deciding on the speed ratings and after getting bows sent back to them they went and shot through several other chronos...low and behold the results were much lower than the numbers they got on Crackers chrono so they then stated that his chrono is hot and they wont use it anymore.
> 
> This information was posted by an employee of strother on a different archery forum a couple years ago...now ive been told by bornagain(crackers employee) that this is not how it went down, but obviously they would have a vested interest in denying that their chrono is hot while i cant comtemplate any reason whatsoever that would make Strother lie and blame Crackers chrono



I do not work for Crackers I am a satisfied customer and good friend of Mike, he lives in MO, I live in VA, I work in the firearms industry and have done so for over 25 years so it just shows how much you know.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

What forum was this on? This is one of the biggest crocks of BS I have ever heard. How in the world did they use my Chrono as all their bows were built in MI using their own Chrono. I have not been involved with this company for a long time. When I was helping them I tried to get them to advertise their speeds lower but failed. How freaking Insane are these people? My chrono, how did they manage that and all their bows were shot through their machine before they were boxed and shipped. I would love to know who said or posted this so send me a link if you have one. 




ChuckA84 said:


> I would much rather see more actual comparisons like sneak did than just hear so and so say that they ran just a single bow through the chrono. The reason being is that there is fast and slow chronos out there, different lighting yields different results, etc...
> 
> As an example, a couple years ago dealers started complaining and some even sending all their bows back to Strother Archery because they were all coming up 15fps short of IBO. Strother obviously looked into it and investigated. Their answer was that they used Crackers chrono when they were deciding on the speed ratings and after getting bows sent back to them they went and shot through several other chronos...low and behold the results were much lower than the numbers they got on Crackers chrono so they then stated that his chrono is hot and they wont use it anymore.
> 
> This information was posted by an employee of strother on a different archery forum a couple years ago...now ive been told by bornagain(crackers employee) that this is not how it went down, but obviously they would have a vested interest in denying that their chrono is hot while i cant comtemplate any reason whatsoever that would make Strother lie and blame Crackers chrono


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

bornagain said:


> I do not work for Crackers I am a satisfied customer and good friend of Mike, he lives in MO, I live in VA, I work in the firearms industry and have done so for over 25 years so it just shows how much you know.


I apologize...when we spoke about this before you made yourself sound like you had first hand knowledge of what actually happened, which lead me to believe you were an employee of his ...apparently you don't have first hand knowledge of what happened and therefore you shouldn't have been trying to tell me what "actually" happened


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

Crackers said:


> What forum was this on? This is one of the biggest crocks of BS I have ever heard. How in the world did they use my Chrono as all their bows were built in MI using their own Chrono. I have not been involved with this company for a long time. When I was helping them I tried to get them to advertise their speeds lower but failed. How freaking Insane are these people? My chrono, how did they manage that and all their bows were shot through their machine before they were boxed and shipped. I would love to know who said or posted this so send me a link if you have one.


I am working on finding a link... but to explain more to everyone else this was from a thread started by a dealer on a different forum at least a couple years ago...the dealer got upset that none of his strothers were getting close to their advertised speed so he contacted strother and they agreed to let him ship the bows back and look into it. After a couple weeks of them looking into it they contacted him and gave him an explanation and their explanation was what i posted.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

ChuckA84 said:


> I am working on finding a link... but to explain more to everyone else this was from a thread started by a dealer on a different forum at least a couple years ago...the dealer got upset that none of his strothers were getting close to their advertised speed so he contacted strother and they agreed to let him ship the bows back and look into it. After a couple weeks of them looking into it they contacted him and gave him an explanation and their explanation was what i posted.



I'm assuming this is the link you are looking for? http://www.archeryaddix.com/forums/bows/23896-rush-speed-test-2.html


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

I will tell you that Scott's chrono has shot with in 1-2 fps as mine, and two other individuals chronos I have seen over the last 3 years.

I trust SH Archery's speed. 

Period.


Pro Chrony's have always shot 6-8fps slow from any decent chrono I have seen.


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

I will tell you that Scott's chrono has shot with in 1-2 fps as mine, and two other individuals chronos I have seen over the last 3 years. (I have a Beta Blue)

I trust SH Archery's speed. 

Period.

Tony and Shane should have similar results as Scottie/PA soon. 


Pro Chrony's have always shot 6-8fps slow from any decent chrono I have seen.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

ChuckA84 said:


> I apologize...when we spoke about this before you made yourself sound like you had first hand knowledge of what actually happened, which lead me to believe you were an employee of his ...apparently you don't have first hand knowledge of what happened and therefore you shouldn't have been trying to tell me what "actually" happened


Actually I do, I am just not an employee of Mike. This hot chrono business is BS.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

I just read through bits and pieces f that thread and the Tech who they spoke with is no longer there and the last bow I had a hand in was the SX-1. I guess when all else fails blame the next guy.


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

chaded said:


> I'm assuming this is the link you are looking for? http://www.archeryaddix.com/forums/bows/23896-rush-speed-test-2.html


Thats not the same that I found before, but that appears to be somewhat leading up to the same story...the one I found before was an actual dealer who sent back all his bows and strother did get back to him after testing chronos at other shops and they then pretty blatantly blamed crackers chrono...i am having trouble finding it again right now though

Here is the relevant info in what chaded found:

"Well the shop owner just got off the phone with the tech/builder at Strother, don't know which one (Jeremy I think). My shop owner explain what all we have done as far as testing and such. The tech was most definitely concerned with our findings. Weather its our chrony or theirs. He said that they only had one chrony in the house and it was calibrated, compared and matched up to Crackers chrony this past fall. So maybe theirs is now off or ours or maybe Crackers was fast or off to start with. At any rate he wants to surely find out who's is wrong and set things straight or correct the problem. Props for Strother on this!! The tech said he was going to build a 69-70# 30" Rush this afternoon and shoot a 355grn arrow through their chrony and see what he gets. He also said that there are 3 or 4 pro shops within a short drive of him and he would be paying them a visit to see what speeds that the other shops chronys read on the Rush and get back to us. Lets all hope that our graph is quite slow and that Strothers graph is reading right and we just so happen to be sitting on an Element that is cranking out 340+ all will be very good!!! Like all have said and I have too, Strother Archery has A1 CS."


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## vtec21 (Sep 14, 2008)

Karbon said:


> I will tell you that Scott's chrono has shot with in 1-2 fps as mine, and two other individuals chronos I have seen over the last 3 years.
> 
> I trust SH Archery's speed.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you on Scott's chrono mine is on par with his also.


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

Crackers said:


> I guess when all else fails blame the next guy.


Well there is 1 reason that I didn't really think of that could have been the basis for a lie by strother lol


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

Karbon said:


> I will tell you that Scott's chrono has shot with in 1-2 fps as mine, and two other individuals chronos I have seen over the last 3 years.
> 
> I trust SH Archery's speed.
> 
> ...


I will back this up 100%. My chrono has ALWAYS been about 4-6 feet slower than Scott's, and AS luck would have it, Im using a PRO-CHRONO. I truly believe that Scott's chrono is on the money. I think everyone pretty much knows the PRO-CHRONO runs about 5 feet slow on average.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Yep , just bought the blue bata shooting chrono and all of my bows picked up 7-10fps faster.im a super tuner now.lol


Scottie/PA said:


> A lot of us on here use the Blue Shooting Chronys. I think you will find that Shane, John, and Tony will all come up with the same numbers I did.
> 
> I don't know why your 2 Bowtechs are shooting similar speeds. All I can tell you is that my RPM shoots 10 fps faster than the CO.


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

Holy crap...pushing just short of 300 posts in this thread arguing about speed!

You take the same bow and arrow, shoot through 10 different chronos...you may get 10 different readings.
You take the one chrono, shoot 10 different bows (same brand, same exact specs, same exact arrow) through it...you may get 10 different readings.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Spot on.


TheScOuT said:


> Holy crap...pushing just short of 300 posts in this thread arguing about speed!
> 
> You take the same bow and arrow, shoot through 10 different chronos...you may get 10 different readings.
> You take the one chrono, shoot 10 different bows (same brand, same exact specs, same exact arrow) through it...you may get 10 different readings.


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

I can't wait till my turd of a bow gets here.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

psychobaby111 said:


> I can't wait till my turd of a bow gets here.


LOL, everytime I read turd it makes me laugh(as I like to use the word turd to describe a slow bow). My turd will be hear soon to, and from my dealer he says the one he has makes ibo with stock strings.


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

TheScOuT said:


> You take the one chrono, shoot 10 different bows (same brand, same exact specs, same exact arrow) through it...you may get 10 different readings.


That's why I feel that a bow manufacturer ought to shoot 100 of a particular model, and rate that model at the speed attained by the slowest one. That way, chances are pretty good that 99% will achieve the IBO rating. Chances are that they shoot 100 and rate off the top one though. LOL!


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

0nepin said:


> Yep , just bought the blue bata shooting chrono and all of my bows picked up 7-10fps faster.im a super tuner now.lol


haha.....good one Onepin....I like it!!:thumbs_up


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

Scottie/PA said:


> *My first RPM has arrived. I spent only 5 minutes tuning it. Synced cams and papertuned quickly. It was a 29" draw and set on exactly 60# with just a dloop. 300 grain arrow shot 344.5 three times. Enter that into the backcountry calculator and you get 360 FPS IBO.
> 
> The draw length was measured at 28 15/16", so its 1/4" to 1/2" shorter than most bows . Will do a more extensive review when I get time tomorrow. *


When I shot the overdrive it seemed short on the draw as well. Have you spent any time with the overdrive?


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

0nepin said:


> Spot on.


Wish I had one so I could say the same....curious as to the price on one?


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

psychobaby111 said:


> When I shot the overdrive it seemed short on the draw as well. Have you spent any time with the overdrive?


From what I have been told the overdrives run a little long on draw. I did not feel much difference but there was a little. I will measure length on my next comparison and post that as well. This test was done with minimal time and I will spend much more time and be more critical on the next time around.


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

sneak1413 said:


> From what I have been told the overdrives run a little long on draw. I did not feel much difference but there was a little. I will measure length on my next comparison and post that as well. This test was done with minimal time and I will spend much more time and be more critical on the next time around.


 shoot one at 60#


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## Kahkon (Jul 22, 2009)

Damnit, my RPM won't be here till Monday. I also use a pro chrono. Maybe that's why we could not get the reps FT to meet ibo.


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## tack09 (Feb 13, 2009)

Nothing like waiting for a turd to show up. If that doesn't get you excited....well what else is there. I can't wait for the TRD 360 to get here.


psychobaby111 said:


> I can't wait till my turd of a bow gets here.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

Yea there turds ! who wants a bow that only shooting 355-358 wow !


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

The addix site is a joke. Now why would a "supertuner" who makes a living by advertising more speed and performance out of stock compound bow need a "hot" chrono?


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

0nepin said:


> Yep , just bought the blue bata shooting chrono and all of my bows picked up 7-10fps faster.im a super tuner now.lol


Hell yeah , I'm going to send you all my bows so they can be CrakrBreth/PAerized!!! 


Did I just say that out loud?


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I paid around $120.00 plus s&h .


sneak1413 said:


> Wish I had one so I could say the same....curious as to the price on one?


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

0nepin said:


> I paid around $120.00 plus s&h .


Are you using any type of a light kit?


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## Inspired (Dec 30, 2010)

Regarding Crackers chrono being used by Strother Archery. This is not true. Mike is in MO and SA is in MI. A 12 hr drive. I never once saw Mike walk into SA with his chrono in his back pocket. As for the speeds from the 2012 lineup; I don't remember getting any calls of the bows running 15fps slow. The few complaints I did get were in the 8-10 fps range, due to the difference in the chronos used. Every bow was and still is shot through a chrono before being boxed....our chrono not Crackers! Speeds were not and are not fudged, they are true to the chrono we use AND a very different chrono than what we used in 2012. I think you will find the speed of the Vital(335fps IBO), though not a 350 fps bow, to be a speed you will get in most any chrono. But....Crackers doesn't need a hot chrono; he can flat tune a freakin bow. To claim he does is just a lie.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Yeah , competition led lighting kit .paid around $70.00 plus s&h .made both the pro and blue bata chrono very consistent .there is 7-10fps difference between the two chrono's


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## Breathn (Jun 12, 2005)

the digital lighting kit is way better..and by the way onepins bows are faster on the cronos he had before this one than mine(he got faster readings than I did) and he can verify that..seems like every time a flipping crono or fast bow comes up in a thread my name is put in it..ive bought 6 cronos in past 2 yrs..and still have 2 and shoot through both of them..1 beta blue,1 alaha master ..they read within 1fps of each other..the pro crono is a little slower but is most consistant out there imo..I don't make a living at this but do enjoy it..but sometimes folks make it hard to do that..lol
Ive compared my beta blue to several guys on here and have actually had several say theirs showed more than I was getting..

By the way good review sneak...


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

That's right . I sent you a video of me shooting the hunlee through the chrono and it was faster than what you were getting.your number have alway been a little slower than when I test the bows , my thought about that was I shoot 28.5" dl cleaner than you can with your 31.5 dl gorilla arms.


Breathn said:


> the digital lighting kit is way better..and by the way onepins bows are faster on the cronos he had before this one than mine(he got faster readings than I did) and he can verify that..seems like every time a flipping crono or fast bow comes up in a thread my name is put in it..ive bought 6 cronos in past 2 yrs..and still have 2 and shoot through both of them..1 beta blue,1 alaha master ..they read within 1fps of each other..the pro crono is a little slower but is most consistant out there imo..I don't make a living at this but do enjoy it..but sometimes folks make it hard to do that..lol
> Ive compared my beta blue to several guys on here and have actually had several say theirs showed more than I was getting..
> 
> By the way good review sneak...


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Btw good test sneak1413 .every bow was shot through the Same chrono , so who cares if it's a slow or fast chrono?


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

psychobaby111 said:


> When I shot the overdrive it seemed short on the draw as well. Have you spent any time with the overdrive?





sneak1413 said:


> From *what I have been told the overdrives run a little long on draw*. I did not feel much difference but there was a little. I will measure length on my next comparison and post that as well. This test was done with minimal time and I will spend much more time and be more critical on the next time around.


I was doing a Carbon Overdrive today and the DL's are 100% spot on....29" mod and stop settings are dead nuts 29" AMO draw length.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

Onepin actually shoots my bows faster through the same chrono than I can. He gets about 2-4 fps faster on average through the same chrono shooting right after each other. I get 288- 290 from my Outback but he gets 292-294 fps. We both shoot 29 in.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

0nepin said:


> Btw good test sneak1413 .every bow was shot through the Same chrono , so who cares if it's a slow or fast chrono?


I agree , the chrono didn't slow down because it was bashing on the rpm360.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Wow I just have to throw this out there, over 9,000 views in less than 48 hours, I wouldn't be surprised at this point if it breaks the 10k mark before 48 hours the way it's going. I did not expect to get the views and responses I did on this. Yeah a bit of it has involved bickering but I don't think I have seen a thread without bickering when it comes to any review.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

hidden danger said:


> I agree , the chrono didn't slow down because it was bashing on the rpm360.


Lol. Your trying way to hard too get the bowtech guys riled up.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

chaded said:


> Lol. Your trying way to hard too get the bowtech guys riled up.


No , I'm not trying to get anyone riled up. I just think sneak did an accurate and honest review. It's getting harder to find these types of reviews anymore. If his chrono is indeed slow then all the tested bows tested slower than they really are.


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## BowElkStalker (Sep 4, 2012)

I cant believe I read the whole thing. Thought I would come across a short DL review. DNA, DNA SP, Carbon Rose, Stiletto at about 26dl and #50#. Thanks

PS: I will be in Bozeman for run to the pub, need my daughter to shoot the CR again.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

hidden danger said:


> I agree , the chrono didn't slow down because it was bashing on the rpm360.


great point ! It was a fair test for sure ! The carbon overdrive was over ibo with. the same chrono , so was the hoyt ! Go figure !


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

seiowabow said:


> Do you still have that amazing snow Invasion?


Hahah! Why yes I do:darkbeer:


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

BowElkStalker said:


> I cant believe I read the whole thing. Thought I would come across a short DL review. DNA, DNA SP, Carbon Rose, Stiletto at about 26dl and #50#. Thanks
> 
> PS: I will be in Bozeman for run to the pub, need my daughter to shoot the CR again.


Lol there have been a few who have asked about the short draw review, I'm going to try to get one up in the bear future, probably going to do a 28.5" draw 65lb comparison next then a 25-26" draw one after that. When do you plan on coming in?


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

Doebuster said:


> great point ! It was a fair test for sure ! The carbon overdrive was over ibo with. the same chrono , so was the hoyt ! Go figure !


Well then , if his chrono was "HOT" then the RPM is really having some serious issues wouldn't you agree?


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

Breathn said:


> the digital lighting kit is way better..and by the way onepins bows are faster on the cronos he had before this one than mine(he got faster readings than I did) and he can verify that..seems like every time a flipping crono or fast bow comes up in a thread my name is put in it..ive bought 6 cronos in past 2 yrs..and still have 2 and shoot through both of them..1 beta blue,1 alaha master ..they read within 1fps of each other..the pro crono is a little slower but is most consistant out there imo..I don't make a living at this but do enjoy it..but sometimes folks make it hard to do that..lol
> Ive compared my beta blue to several guys on here and have actually had several say theirs showed more than I was getting..
> 
> By the way good review sneak...


I don't think ANYONE in their right mind is doubting you or your CHRONO John. Most on archery talk know how good you are at tuning and pretty much listen to what you say about these bows. I have noticed your name DOES get drug into just about any thread dealing with super-tuning or getting max speeds out of a bow and all I can say to you about that is.....well, that's what happens when you are revered as being the best....:thumbs_up:thumbs_up
BTW....how can I get the hump out of my full throttle since mine is the only one on the planet that has a hump anyways??:wink:


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## Rod Savini (Nov 23, 2011)

Breathn said:


> the digital lighting kit is way better..and by the way onepins bows are faster on the cronos he had before this one than mine(he got faster readings than I did) and he can verify that..seems like every time a flipping crono or fast bow comes up in a thread my name is put in it..ive bought 6 cronos in past 2 yrs..and still have 2 and shoot through both of them..1 beta blue,1 alaha master ..they read within 1fps of each other..the pro crono is a little slower but is most consistant out there imo..I don't make a living at this but do enjoy it..but sometimes folks make it hard to do that..lol
> Ive compared my beta blue to several guys on here and have actually had several say theirs showed more than I was getting..
> 
> By the way good review sneak...


Don't doubt your speeds at all. You just know how to get the bows to go as fast as possible!


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## BowElkStalker (Sep 4, 2012)

Ill be in that Saturday of the "run to the pub", St Patty's weekend. My daughter is having a hard time deciding between the CR and Stiletto. She is pulling 40# and her dl is 25.5-26? Elk hunting is our game and she is shooting easton fmj 500. Just wondering if a DNA might be an option?


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

BowElkStalker said:


> Ill be in that Saturday of the "run to the pub", St Patty's weekend. My daughter is having a hard time deciding between the CR and Stiletto. She is pulling 40# and her dl is 25.5-26? Elk hunting is our game and she is shooting easton fmj 500. Just wondering if a DNA might be an option?


Last years stilleto would probably be the fastest, the DNA sp might be a good option as well. Ill see if I can get some numbers before then. Keep your eyes open.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

BowElkStalker said:


> I cant believe I read the whole thing. Thought I would come across a short DL review. DNA, DNA SP, Carbon Rose, Stiletto at about 26dl and #50#. Thanks
> 
> PS: I will be in Bozeman for run to the pub, need my daughter to shoot the CR again.


I just posted what I could for three SD bows in the BT forum. I intend to expand it further with the results from a second RPM.


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## Toddk31 (Feb 11, 2007)

Tony219er said:


> I was doing a Carbon Overdrive today and the DL's are 100% spot on....29" mod and stop settings are dead nuts 29" AMO draw length.


My COD is running 3/8" long. In fact I usually shoot 28 and had to go 27.5 on it. Maybe its a factory string issue.


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## ShootNow (Jul 27, 2008)

I finally got to shoot the RPM and Carbon OD yesterday. I asked my dealer what the speed difference was between the two bows. He said "Not sure, lets find out". The RPM was 11 FPS faster than the OD set at 29" draw and 70 pounds. The OD did feel longer on the draw to me. I ordered the RPM.


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## matthews85 (Sep 10, 2008)

Has anybody checked and compared actual draw lengths of these bows in comparison to the advertised draw lengths at the settings tested? I would be very curious as to the results. Somebody with the right equipment should post that as I know it would help me. Some bows I have to shoot an inch shorter to get to my proper draw length. In these cases, I end up shooting a lot slower bow.


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

Sneak
Nice review.
Didn't read all 11 pages here but next time you do a bow review, you might want to use a decibel meter for sound. "Decibel 10" is an app I have on my phone, think it was free, that works ok. Just a thought, I started using it just to see if changes I made had any sound effects, my hearing is gone South with age.
Ches.


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## upnorth (Feb 24, 2004)

just did a carbon overdrive . 70.5 lbs 28 inch draw 404 grain arrow with tru peep and loop , left shop at 303 I have a Oehler chronograph .


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Ches said:


> Sneak
> Nice review.
> Didn't read all 11 pages here but next time you do a bow review, you might want to use a decibel meter for sound. "Decibel 10" is an app I have on my phone, think it was free, that works ok. Just a thought, I started using it just to see if changes I made had any sound effects, my hearing is gone South with age.
> Ches.


Next time I am going to get a few guys to help me out and I am going to have them stand about 15 feet away with their backs turned and have them rate it on a number system. Then I will average their numbers. If I was going to use a decibel meter I think I would rather use a good one and that's out of our budget. They are all more than quiet enough. The only ones that stood out for noise where the cod and the cst because one was louder and the other just had a very much different noise and was what I thought was louder.


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## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

Tony219er said:


> I was doing a Carbon Overdrive today and the DL's are 100% spot on....29" mod and stop settings are dead nuts 29" AMO draw length.


Guys I'm sorry...I need to lay off the crack pipe lol.

The Carbon OD I was doing came in 3/16" long...that's with my strings and a set of Bomar Archery stops.

The bow I was thinking about coming in spot on was the Carbon Spyder I was also tuning last night. My bad and sorry for any confusion.


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## upnorth (Feb 24, 2004)

when it comes to the sound a bow makes . last year we had our outdoor 3d tourney. as a bonus we had a 100 yard shot for $100 ,2 arrows first practice second closest to center . to get the shot we had to shoot down a dead end road . I would go down on a 4 wheeler and stand back in the woods with over 100 yards of woods between me and the shooters . there wasn't one compound bow shot that I could not hear go off ( actually surprise me on easy it was to hear them ) . plus I could hear the arrow coming before it hit the target . so if you think they can make a semi high performance bow that when shot a deer or most animals can't hear I'd like to see it .


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## The "WIZARD" (Mar 22, 2006)

Our RPM showed up today, it's shooting 354 on our chrono out of the box at 30" draw. Checked timing but did not yoke/paper tune so could gain some speed there. If anything the draw feels on the shorter side like others have said. It definitely has a hump at 29.5/30" draw but it is butter smooth at 29" and under! Absolutely dead on the release, the bow does not move even without a stab on it. Will be ordering mine soon! On par with what the Bowtechs reps told me as far as shorter lengths and speeds... approx 13fps per inch loss. At 28.5" it was 19fps slower than 30".


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

The "WIZARD" said:


> Our RPM showed up today, it's shooting 354 on our chrono out of the box at 30" draw. Checked timing but did not yoke/paper tune so could gain some speed there. If anything the draw feels on the shorter side like others have said. It definitely has a hump at 29.5/30" draw but it is butter smooth at 29" and under! Absolutely dead on the release, the bow does not move even without a stab on it. Will be ordering mine soon! On par with what the Bowtechs reps told me as far as shorter lengths and speeds... approx 13fps per inch loss. At 28.5" it was 19fps slower than 30".


Thanks for the review! It sounds like it should reach IBO. I agree with the 13 FPS loss per inch. I've read that bows on average lose 3.5% of their speed per inch. 360 X .035 = 12.6.


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## upnorth (Feb 24, 2004)

just got my rpm . came in 29 inch 62.7 lbs . was 62.76 on my scale checked draw to center of first rest hole 27 3/4 . shot 337 with a 315 grain arrow . no tuning at all yet .looks like timing marks are pretty close drew like a toy .have to see if I can find 13 fps


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

I added pictures of the grip to my review of the RPM that I took delivery of today in the following link: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2200538

Bow draws like a dream-very smooth, details in the review link.

DL was measured to be EXACT to the setting: 25" cam setting measured exactly 25", so I had to set mine to 25.5" setting. Brace height measured 5.75" on my bow.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

matthews85 said:


> Has anybody checked and compared actual draw lengths of these bows in comparison to the advertised draw lengths at the settings tested? I would be very curious as to the results. Somebody with the right equipment should post that as I know it would help me. Some bows I have to shoot an inch shorter to get to my proper draw length. In these cases, I end up shooting a lot slower bow.


I just did on the RPM I took home today: the RPM was measuring EXACTLY 25" at the 25" cam setting. Brace height was measured at 5.75".


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

upnorth said:


> just got my rpm . came in 29 inch 62.7 lbs . was 62.76 on my scale checked draw to center of first rest hole 27 3/4 . shot 337 with a 315 grain arrow . no tuning at all yet .looks like timing marks are pretty close drew like a toy .have to see if I can find 13 fps


There was an earlier post stating that a quick 7-10 fps can be obtained by just using a different chrono. Just joking around. Awesome bow and have fun.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

upnorth said:


> just got my rpm . came in 29 inch 62.7 lbs . was 62.76 on my scale checked draw to center of first rest hole 27 3/4 . shot 337 with a 315 grain arrow . no tuning at all yet .looks like timing marks are pretty close drew like a toy .have to see if I can find 13 fps


Online calculator says 341 would be ibo for your specs


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## upnorth (Feb 24, 2004)

the bow set on 29 inch posts . 337 plus 10 ( haven't checked the 13fps lose yet) for 30 "= 347 only has loop so say 3 fps so around 10 fps slow . going to play with it today see if I can find the 7 or 10 . had a nock right tear around 3/4 inch but the only arrow I had to shoot was a victory hvv1 300 that I put a 75 grain point on to get it down to 315 pretty stiff I will build the right arrow today . pretty sure there's a few feet there between the tear and arrow.


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## Toddk31 (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you guys actually think any of these manufacturers use a Pro Chrono to get their speeds. Possibly Hoyt does, but none of the others do. 

I wouldn't base your speeds off the Pro. I believe it is made by Fischer Price. :tongue:


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## upnorth (Feb 24, 2004)

my chrono a Oehler. use to run two chrono's one inside the other . they were both reading the same speed so I figured they were right . didn't think there was to much chance of them both being wrong and reading the same so I sold the cheaper one


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## Trevor02TA (Sep 8, 2009)

Toddk31 said:


> Do you guys actually think any of these manufacturers use a Pro Chrono to get their speeds. Possibly Hoyt does, but none of the others do.
> 
> I wouldn't base your speeds off the Pro. I believe it is made by Fischer Price. :tongue:


Pro Chrono or not. It doesn't matter if your shooting multiple bows through the same chrono at the same set up. Some manufactures reach IBO and others won't. 
I was told by one company that my Pro Chrono is just slow and thats why I cant reach their speeds with it. I called BS because that means that 2 of the 3 bows in my sig are shooting over their IBO by 15-17fps. I highly doubt that. I sent the bow back to them and was told by them it was hitting the number.........so who knows. 

Anyone wanna guess the slow one:wink:


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

My dealer just called. My RPM is waiting in the box. 70# black. I'll post some speeds once I get it tuned.


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## upnorth (Feb 24, 2004)

did a little tinkering . built a new arrow ended at 303 . retuned bow and paper tuned ended up at 62.2 lbs ( know arrows a little lite don't care). didn't change draw length shot at 345 (with proper arrow weight probably 342) at 29 inch with loop took of eliminator buttons ( only change 1 fps)


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## Trevor02TA (Sep 8, 2009)

Just had local shop set one up to the same specs as my pulse. Same chrono, arrow, dl, and weight. It shot 8-9 fps faster than the Pulse. 
It was set at 59 lbs, 29.5" and 380 gr arrow. D loop only.
We got 302 302 and 304

Pulse shot 293 294 and 294

At 29.5" the draw was very stiff at the roll over. Felt like most of the fast Bowtechs at anything above 29". Very similar to my 82nd Airborne


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## nontypical (Jan 4, 2004)

seiowabow said:


> Online calculator says 341 would be ibo for your specs


28 inch draw and a d loop shooting 337. Something wrong with the calculator. At least +10 for inch of draw. Others say this bow averages 13.5 fps per inch.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Got it set up. Just checked the timing and set draw at exactly 28". At 70 with peep and loop with a 355 grn arrow I got 319 on a pro chrono


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

Trevor02TA said:


> Just had local shop set one up to the same specs as my pulse. Same chrono, arrow, dl, and weight. It shot 8-9 fps faster than the Pulse.
> It was set at 59 lbs, 29.5" and 380 gr arrow. D loop only.
> We got 302 302 and 304
> 
> ...


 ~ 18 fps slower than advertised. Your Pulse is ~ 5 fps lower than advertised or did I miss something. I do think shooting different bows, same arrow through the same chrono. gives more reliable data as you have a benchmark and sanity check. Thanks for sharing.


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

seiowabow said:


> Got it set up. Just checked the timing and set draw at exactly 28". At 70 with peep and loop with a 355 grn arrow I got 319 on a pro chrono


Is this what you expected. I would have guessed you would be near 326-327 with this set up.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

No. It's not. Could be the pro chrono. But it's quiet and shoots great. I actually love the grip and the weight feels good. Keep in mind this is basically out of the box. But I'm not expecting it to make 360 calculated ibo.


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

seiowabow said:


> No. It's not. Could be the pro chrono. But it's quiet and shoots great. I actually love the grip and the weight feels good. Keep in mind this is basically out of the box. But I'm not expecting it to make 360 calculated ibo.


It is good to hear it is a shooter.


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## runninghounds (Sep 2, 2012)

seiowabow said:


> No. It's not. Could be the pro chrono. But it's quiet and shoots great. I actually love the grip and the weight feels good. Keep in mind this is basically out of the box. But I'm not expecting it to make 360 calculated ibo.


I take it you was able to finally shoot them bad boy arrows you got congrats on the new bow..


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

runninghounds said:


> I take it you was able to finally shoot them bad boy arrows you got congrats on the new bow..


Thanks bro. It's slinging those GT22s


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

DJO said:


> Is this what you expected. I would have guessed you would be near 326-327 with this set up.


At those specs the calculator said 333 fps that's with15grains on the string ! They seem to be a little slow !


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Doebuster said:


> At those specs the calculator said 333 fps that's with15grains on the string ! They seem to be a little slow !


Not sure what calculator your using but backcountry says 346 IBO with 20 grains on the string.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

Tested the 70 lb today set at 29" its 2" over my draw. No problem getting it back. Had them put it at 27" and its very smooth. The bow shoots very nice. Holds really nice. The crono said 440 grain arrow was anywhere between 200-255 fps. Sucks the crono was jacked up because I want to see what it will really do if im going to put some money down. 

On a side note the scheels tec that was setting up an experience blew the bow to crap checking lbs on a scale. He had been talking to a customer and suggested the customer buy a mathews single cam. The customer asked me what I thought and I went over all the bows sheels had and told him the plusses and minuses with each bow. Told him to try the experience out. Told him to go somewhere else and try hoyt, prime and pse. Then decide what he liked. The tech didnt like what I said and when he blew the bow up he told me they blow up tons of bowtechs and that's why he pushes mathews. My guess when he was changing mods using the press he had a cable out of its grove or something because he said the bow was pulling 75 lbs on a 70 lb bow with the limbs turned out half way. What an idiot!


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)




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## WVB4 (Dec 29, 2009)

Looks awesome, congrats.


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## Trevor02TA (Sep 8, 2009)

DJO said:


> ~ 18 fps slower than advertised. Your Pulse is ~ 5 fps lower than advertised or did I miss something. I do think shooting different bows, same arrow through the same chrono. gives more reliable data as you have a benchmark and sanity check. Thanks for sharing.


Elite rates the 60lb at 337-340. Mine is shooting at 336-337. My 82nd shoots 349-353. The New Breed shoots about 15-17 slower than what it should.
The dealer actually joked and said it should have been called the RPM 340
I thought it held nice and shot good. Very little vibration or buzz. Pretty quiet too.
I also tried it set at 29'' and stops set at 29.5'' It had a quick dump imto the backwall like this, but not terrible.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

> The tech didn't like what I said and when he blew the bow up he told me they blow up tons of bowtechs and that's why he pushes mathews.


I imagine he got so got up in what you were saying that he forgot to put the cable back around the upper post. Doing this on a Experience, Insanity on the RPM will cause the cables to break with in 6" of drawing the bow back.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

nontypical said:


> 28 inch draw and a d loop shooting 337. Something wrong with the calculator. At least +10 for inch of draw. Others say this bow averages 13.5 fps per inch.



I just set up the same RPM at 29" and 27". There was a 22 fps difference. That would be 11 fps per inch.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Yeah it's a 345-350 bow


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

seiowabow said:


> Yeah it's a 345-350 bow


Thats a shame.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Took it my friends. Scaled it at 69.8. Set bow at 28.5. Got 328 with his chronograph


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## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

seiowabow said:


> Took it my friends. Scaled it at 69.8. Set bow at 28.5. Got 328 with his chronograph


And blew the hot sumbiotch up!


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## Toddk31 (Feb 11, 2007)

seiowabow said:


> Yeah it's a 345-350 bow


Sure, if you base your speeds on a Pro Chrono made by Fischer Price. Do you actually think any manufacturers use them? Try an Easton, Pact, or Shooting Chrony.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

We tried 3 chronos. You think all of them are 15 slow?


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

seiowabow said:


> We tried 3 chronos. You think all of them are 15 slow?


Were all three of them Pro Chronos? Lol


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

No.


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## bcycle (Feb 22, 2006)

I'm sorry buy even if they are falling a little short of ibo don't just pass it up. If it shoots great don't worry about a few fps


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

For me 5 fps off ibo is the end of my acceptable allowance. Any more than that i get upset, im very bummed to hear these bows are slow....especially with how all the od bowtechs have been up till now speedwise. I wonder if something happened with a part or something In the design between the prototypes and mass production.


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## smhagger707 (Oct 24, 2013)

I checked at the shop today: the chrono that I was shooting my bow across was a 'Pro Chrono Digital'. Also, while shooting it today I noticed the wall wasn't as solid as i expected, so we checked the timing and it was off. We adjusted to near perfect now and the wall is a lot more solid, and the draw has become phenomenally smooth-very constant pull through the whole cycle now. Wouldn't surprise me if mine shot a few fps faster with the timing adjusted too.

If anyone is feeling a noticeable hump in the cycle, I would encourage you to go back and closely check the cam timing. I initially felt a hump, and now feel none.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

MELLY-MEL said:


> For me 5 fps off ibo is the end of my acceptable allowance. Any more than that i get upset, im very bummed to hear these bows are slow....especially with how all the od bowtechs have been up till now speedwise. I wonder if something happened with a part or something In the design between the prototypes and mass production.


Something happened alright............the truth came out !!!


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

Crackers said:


> I imagine he got so got up in what you were saying that he forgot to put the cable back around the upper post. Doing this on a Experience, Insanity on the RPM will cause the cables to break with in 6" of drawing the bow back.


It actually broke the metal part that hooks on the limb. I would have thought it would break the limb before it broke that piece.


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## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

swbuckmaster said:


> It actually broke the metal part that hooks on the limb. I would have thought it would break the limb before it broke that piece.



The limbs on the new bows are pretty tough. I had someone bring in a Experience that had a broken bracket, limbs all mared up and both cables cut. Bow still had the tag on it. He said it did that after he changed the draw length and tried drawing it back. He did not route the cables right as I mentioned in the other post. He bought new limbs because the finish was ruined after bouncing on the floor but they still could of been used. Also be are to make sure the yokes are in the spindles because if one slides in towards the cam while drawing it back it can cause what happened also.


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## skinner2 (Aug 16, 2006)

MELLY-MEL said:


> For me 5 fps off ibo is the end of my acceptable allowance. Any more than that i get upset, im very bummed to hear these bows are slow....especially with how all the od bowtechs have been up till now speedwise. I wonder if something happened with a part or something In the design between the prototypes and mass production.


Well can't speak for all of the speeds being posted on here. However just spoke to my dealer a little bit ago on mine. Pretty sure it was with just a loop on it at 27/60 with an ibo arrow he was getting 323 fps. I can live with that.


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

skinner2 said:


> Well can't speak for all of the speeds being posted on here. However just spoke to my dealer a little bit ago on mine. Pretty sure it was with just a loop on it at 27/60 with an ibo arrow he was getting 323 fps. I can live with that.


Yeah, i could live with that as well. Glad to hear.


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

Idk. Could be the chronos or my crappy tuning. I will continue to play with it.


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## turkeysroost (Nov 14, 2009)

skinner2 said:


> Well can't speak for all of the speeds being posted on here. However just spoke to my dealer a little bit ago on mine. Pretty sure it was with just a loop on it at 27/60 with an ibo arrow he was getting 323 fps. I can live with that.


I saw your bow yesterday, good looking bow. What sight and rest are you going with?


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

skinner2 said:


> Well can't speak for all of the speeds being posted on here. However just spoke to my dealer a little bit ago on mine. Pretty sure it was with just a loop on it at 27/60 with an ibo arrow he was getting 323 fps. I can live with that.


That's by far the fastest short draw speed posted that I have seen.


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## turkeysroost (Nov 14, 2009)

sneak1413 said:


> That's by far the fastest short draw speed posted that I have seen.


Scottie can get some speed out of a bow when he sets one up. My experience was shooting a 345 grain arrow at 28 1/2 draw 61 lbs @ 319 fps .


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## skinner2 (Aug 16, 2006)

turkeysroost said:


> I saw your bow yesterday, good looking bow. What sight and rest are you going with?


Limbdriver pro v and not sure on the sight yet. I had intentions of going with the new covert but its going to be a while before they are ready.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

MELLY-MEL said:


> For me 5 fps off ibo is the end of my acceptable allowance. Any more than that i get upset, im very bummed to hear these bows are slow....especially with how all the od bowtechs have been up till now speedwise. I wonder if something happened with a part or something In the design between the prototypes and mass production.


They are making speeds Both Mike and Scottie have bows running IBO and then some but considering what happened a few days ago on this thread I don't blame them for not discussing it anymore. Anyway bottom line my RPM360 I'm getting from Mike will be sending my 422gr arrow downrange at 29/60, 302fps you can do the rest of the math.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

They make ibo, just not on pro chrono's or the cheaper chrono's. they make it on the chrono's that "aren't slow" or as other state "hot".


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## turkeysroost (Nov 14, 2009)

sneak1413 said:


> They make ibo, just not on pro chrono's or the cheaper chrono's. they make it on the chrono's that "aren't slow" or as other state "hot".


My educated hypothesis would be, proper tune = hitting IBO!


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## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

From what I have seen here, the 60# models are hitting ibo, but not 70#.


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

bornagain said:


> They are making speeds Both Mike and Scottie have bows running IBO and then some but considering what happened a few days ago on this thread I don't blame them for not discussing it anymore. Anyway bottom line my RPM360 I'm getting from Mike will be sending my 422gr arrow downrange at 29/60, 302fps you can do the rest of the math.


It would be helpful if the guys that are getting the ibo speed shoot a couple of other bows through the same chrono with the same arrow to compare. That way everyone should see the huge speed discrepancy in the bows and restore peoples faith in the RPM being a barn burner.


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## rkt (Jan 24, 2010)

This thread is funny, reminds me last year of all the Experience hate. Ends up its been one of Bowtechs best bows to date. Now all this with the IBO on the RPM , funny to see some of the old Fanclub getting their stabs in, guess what fellas they are still gonna sell like crazy. Then we are gonna see threads where people are stating how happy they are wit the bow and the good speeds their getting . and this thread will be long forgotten. I suppose its all entertaining.


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## tack09 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well said sir.


rkt said:


> This thread is funny, reminds me last year of all the Experience hate. Ends up its been one of Bowtechs best bows to date. Now all this with the IBO on the RPM , funny to see some of the old Fanclub getting their stabs in, guess what fellas they are still gonna sell like crazy. Then we are gonna see threads where people are stating how happy they are wit the bow and the good speeds their getting . and this thread will be long forgotten. I suppose its all entertaining.


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

DJO said:


> It would be helpful if the guys that are getting the ibo speed shoot a couple of other bows through the same chrono with the same arrow to compare. That way everyone should see the huge speed discrepancy in the bows and restore peoples faith in the RPM being a barn burner.


Agree.....good post


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

turkeysroost said:


> My educated hypothesis would be, proper tune = hitting IBO!


Well my chrono shows every other bow hitting ibo, except the rpm 360? Is that because I can't tune, or is it that my chrono is slow and all other bows are exceeding ibo, or can I just tune all bows except an rpm 360. Even with my chrono the 360 is getting a 352 ibo, shoot all our bows through crackers or Scottie's chrono I very all would exceed ibo and the 360 would be spot on ibo.


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

Toddk31 said:


> Sure, if you base your speeds on a Pro Chrono made by Fischer Price. Do you actually think any manufacturers use them? Try an Easton, Pact, or Shooting Chrony.


You are missing the point. The point of discussion is that his RPM is only 8 - 9 fps faster than his Elite Pulse when tested through the same chrono. That means that if the two were tested using the Easton, Pact, or Shooting Chrony, both bows maybe faster but the difference between the two would still be similar. That also means that the RPM is not that much faster than the Pulse. That could also mean that his particular RPM might not be that fast. The types of chrono. the bow manufacturers use to calculate their claimed/advertised IBO have very little impact to the 8 - 9 fps difference between the RPM and Pulse data. 

See quote below: 

"Just had local shop set one up to the same specs as my pulse. Same chrono, arrow, dl, and weight. It shot 8-9 fps faster than the Pulse.
It was set at 59 lbs, 29.5" and 380 gr arrow. D loop only.
We got 302 302 and 304

Pulse shot 293 294 and 294"


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

I love the bow. Quiet and holds like a rock. I already said it's probably my chrono(s) or tuning.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

mongopino915 said:


> You are missing the point. The point of discussion is that his RPM is only 8 - 9 fps faster than his Elite Pulse when tested through the same chrono. That means that if the two were tested using the Easton, Pact, or Shooting Chrony, both bows maybe faster but the difference between the two would still be similar. That also means that the RPM is not that much faster than the Pulse. That could also mean that his particular RPM might be that fast. The types of chrono. the bow manufacturers use to calculate their claimed/advertised IBO have very little impact to the 8 - 9 fps difference between the RPM and Pulse data.
> 
> See quote below:
> 
> ...


Funny how a lot of people are missing that point.


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## Trophyhunter45 (Jan 12, 2013)

Not sure if many have had a chance to shoot the OB Evo yet. I was fortunate to have shot it shortly after release but didn't spend much time with it. Knew was on my HOT list along with the 360. I spent 3 hrs with the Evolution today. Man, IMO and it's just that, my opinion. If you don't shoot this bow, ANYONE in the market for a bow is selling themselves short. IMO the BEST BOW ON THE PLANET RT NOW. 28.5, 65lbs and ran 315gr and 380gr through the chrono. Draw? Butter! Smooth from the beginning to the very end (65lb limbs set at 63-felt like I was pulling 55) with just a slight hump on the backside. SOLID back wall and could hold it all day. I have shot every new release for '14 and IMO the evolution is the quietest bow out of them all. A lot of them out there but man this bow is quiet. You have to shoot it to believe it. And DEAD in the hand and I mean DEAD! Very well balanced without a stab. Grip was sweet, very nice pocket. Extremely comfortable. IBO of 353 and I haven't ran the numbers but this thang is fast. 28.5 with 65lb limbs set up rt at 63, 380gr 5 shots with lowest reading 305 and highest 307. 315gr 5 shots lowest reading 328 and highest 331. You gotta soot this bow


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

NoDeerInIowa said:


> From what I have seen here, the 60# models are hitting ibo, but not 70#.


I'm starting to wonder if this isn't the case myself. I have no idea why this would be. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot any yet. Still about a week away for me.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

rkt said:


> This thread is funny, reminds me last year of all the Experience hate. Ends up its been one of Bowtechs best bows to date. Now all this with the IBO on the RPM , funny to see some of the old Fanclub getting their stabs in, guess what fellas they are still gonna sell like crazy. Then we are gonna see threads where people are stating how happy they are wit the bow and the good speeds their getting . and this thread will be long forgotten. I suppose its all entertaining.


So true.


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## The "WIZARD" (Mar 22, 2006)

Everyone can keep having a pissing match over whether or not the RPM will hit 360fps. But the bottom line IMO is this... Some are claiming good speeds and some are not (No different than almost every other bow out there) in reality the IBO on this bow is 352-360 (they have an 8 fps range at Bowtech) and from what I've seen, it will be in that range if tuned properly. No one is hiding the fact (Including Bowtech) that this bow dumps speed at a higher rate (13fps/inch) than others as you go down in length. Most agree that at the longer draws (29.5/30) it has a noticeable hump and at 29" and shorter its pretty damn smooth on the draw. On the release it is rock solid and has very little vibration or hand shock. Every customer that has handled the bow so far in our shop loves the grip that everyone hated in the pictures they saw. A lot of people complained about the listed weight of the bow, and the only customer that has made a comment about the weight so far thought the bow was "light". If I was a 30" draw I would probably pass, but the 29" and under guys that are looking for a "speed bow" will really like the feel of these bows.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

The "WIZARD" said:


> Everyone can keep having a pissing match over whether or not the RPM will hit 360fps. But the bottom line IMO is this... Some are claiming good speeds and some are not (No different than almost every other bow out there) in reality the IBO on this bow is 352-360 (they have an 8 fps range at Bowtech) and from what I've seen, it will be in that range if tuned properly. No one is hiding the fact (Including Bowtech) that this bow dumps speed at a higher rate (13fps/inch) than others as you go down in length. Most agree that at the longer draws (29.5/30) it has a noticeable hump and at 29" and shorter its pretty damn smooth on the draw. On the release it is rock solid and has very little vibration or hand shock. Every customer that has handled the bow so far in our shop loves the grip that everyone hated in the pictures they saw. A lot of people complained about the listed weight of the bow, and the only customer that has made a comment about the weight so far thought the bow was "light". If I was a 30" draw I would probably pass, but the 29" and under guys that are looking for a "speed bow" will really like the feel of these bows.


Exactly, everyone is freaking out because the speeds where not faster than all the other bows tested by 10+ fps and because it doesn't make 360fps, but in the subjective tests it ranked right up there with the slower rated bows for feel. If I was to shoot bowtech this year this would be my bow. My favorite bowtech in the last 3 years personally.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

Then why call it the rpm 360?


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## rkt (Jan 24, 2010)

Why call yourself Hidden Danger?


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

hidden danger said:


> Then why call it the rpm 360?


Because that's the top end of it's IBO range/rating...

For some people that's a good enough reason to call it that. Some of the bows are hitting it. Some are not.

I'll save you a post here.... The ones that are hitting it are being shot through "hot" chronos by liars... we know you wouldn't buy one if it was hitting 380. Fine, you don't like Bowtech. We get it.

Some people like Overdrive Binary Center Pivot Bowtechs for more reasons then just IBO speed.

Also.... news flash: Joe Bowhunter doesn't give a rat's @$$ what the archery geeks on AT think about the bow good or bad. They're never going to read this stuff. Bowtech is going to sell a pile of them and there will be a lot of dead animals at the end of blood trails as a result. Sorry that bothers you.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

hidden danger said:


> Then why call it the rpm 360?


Because some chrono's will read 360, the slower chrono's will do 352, either way its in its range, the DNA only was mid 340's based on my numbers...it's rated 352... But the cod, cst, and DNA sp hit or exceeded ibo with our chrono, all in all, it really doesn't matter because the target or deer you plan on shooting doesn't know how fast it's shooting, if you wanted to get the fastest bow that shoots comfortable for you, then this is a real world comparison of how they stack up with one another. I can't say anything really bad about the 360 after shooting it. One of bowtechs best to date as of first impressions. Time will tell if it really is.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

The "WIZARD" said:


> Everyone can keep having a pissing match over whether or not the RPM will hit 360fps. But the bottom line IMO is this... Some are claiming good speeds and some are not (No different than almost every other bow out there) in reality the IBO on this bow is 352-360 (they have an 8 fps range at Bowtech) and from what I've seen, it will be in that range if tuned properly. No one is hiding the fact (Including Bowtech) that this bow dumps speed at a higher rate (13fps/inch) than others as you go down in length. Most agree that at the longer draws (29.5/30) it has a noticeable hump and at 29" and shorter its pretty damn smooth on the draw. On the release it is rock solid and has very little vibration or hand shock. Every customer that has handled the bow so far in our shop loves the grip that everyone hated in the pictures they saw. A lot of people complained about the listed weight of the bow, and the only customer that has made a comment about the weight so far thought the bow was "light". If I was a 30" draw I would probably pass, but the 29" and under guys that are looking for a "speed bow" will really like the feel of these bows.



Good post, It's not the first time I am happy to be a 29" draw


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## seiowabow (Dec 19, 2010)

I shot at it 30" to see what it's like. Still not bad. Feels like the Invasion. At my 28.5 it's like butter.


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

Picked up my Overdrive last night and while he was setting it up I got to shoot the RPM. Didn't have much time to spend with it but really like it. This bow was a 60 that maxed out to 62 and I shot it at 29". Now I only shot it a few times but the draw was way better than my Overdrive and is dead with no vib or kick. Now these numbers are right off the hook with a wb and a loop. I shot my 3d arrow which is around 375 grains at 29 62 it shot 312. my Overdrive which is a 60 that maxes to 63 shot the same arrow at 29" with a peep and a loop 309. Now don't kill me over these numbers that just what I got at this shop with there stuff. I really liked the RPM sweet bow, to me it is a refined Insanity. go out and shoot one I think you will like it.


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## X-file (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks for the review sneak
And all the input from everyone else. One thing that seems to be overlooked is regardless of speed accuracy, the pro chrono is consistent so sneak's review shows actual real world differences between the bows. I did some of this to. Same chrono, shooter & arrow on some other bows.
Pro chrono indoors light kit
324 gn victory hv
All bows within .5 # and dl all just a touch over 27"

Insanity 294 fps
Evolution 300fps
Energy 32 290fps
Source 289fps

Whether these numbers are exact speed or not, I know the evolution is the fastest and the source is the slowest.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

Sean243 said:


> Because that's the top end of it's IBO range/rating...
> 
> For some people that's a good enough reason to call it that. Some of the bows are hitting it. Some are not.
> 
> ...


 wow ! Maybe its the rpm 350 ! I think the point is some company's fudge there numbers ! IMO I like the review sneak did , psychobaby tested one last night right of the shelf and it was quite a bit slower than advertised ! But really who cares I'm sure it's a nice bow , he said it drew really nice and was no faster than his insanity !


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

Doebuster said:


> wow ! Maybe its the rpm 350 ! I think the point is some company's fudge there numbers ! IMO I like the review sneak did , psychobaby tested one last night right of the shelf and it was quite a bit slower than advertised ! But really who cares I'm sure it's a nice bow , he said it drew really nice and was no faster than his insanity !


I'm good with the review sneak did too and stated as much at least once in this thread already. I think we're basically on the same page except for the fact that you are not okay with putting an IBO speed in the name of a bow unless every single bow does that speed right out of the box. I'm okay with them putting the speed in the name if that's a speed that the bow is capable of reaching (if not every single bow).

I don't go on any other thread and make smart comments about other bow brands that aren't my personal cup of tea. I also don't go on just to stir the pot because I see an opportunity. My response was directed at someone who clearly has that intention and has demonstrated as much though multiple posts in this thread. His position and opinions have been made clear and I was letting him know he has accomplished his goal.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

I've owned several bowtechs and there very good bows , and I may own a rpm ! So it's not a bash , it's simply the facts . It's nothing to get upset about ! I like bowtech , I'm sure some of the guys on here will get it to shoot it's ibo were just talkin out of the box speeds !


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm not taking anything you are saying as a bash man and like I said, we're pretty much on the same page. None of my previous comments are directed towards you, sneak or anyone else who is expressing their opinion and experience thus far with the bow in a non-inflammatory manner. I use the term inflammatory lightly by the way. It's not like I'm even close to being any where near upset, but I know some AT users can get a little worked up. I don't take anything all that seriously on here and as such, don't expect any one to take me seriously either. It's all good. 

Also, by the sounds of it, it's a good thing they don't all make IBO outta the box and have a slight hump at 29.5" and 30".... otherwise it sounds like it would have everything going for it a hunting bow could have. This thread would be 3 pages long at best and boring as heck. What would we all do then with our free time. Lol


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

I agree I think it's going to be a nice bow ! I want to shoot one ! I'm thinking about a 50lber for a hunting bow . Psychobaby said it drew really nice at 29 , and was very quiet . When tony 219 does one then well know what a really good tune can do !


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## bigsendero300 (Jan 28, 2013)

I don't care if mine does 320ibo! That's a sweet unit.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Doebuster said:


> I agree I think it's going to be a nice bow ! I want to shoot one ! I'm thinking about a 50lber for a hunting bow . Psychobaby said it drew really nice at 29 , and was very quiet . When tony 219 does one then well know what a really good tune can do !


Remember chrono graphs make a bigger difference usually than the tune itself. I could probably squeeze a couple more fps out of it and is love to take the same bow with the same chrono and have a tune off I bet most decent tuners would all be within 1 fps of each other. It has been stated that the pro chrono is 5-8 fps slow which would put our bow right at 357-360 ibo.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

Sean243,
So you think all the guys getting 360ibo are flat out liars with a hot chrono? or did I miss read that?


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

bowtech2006 said:


> Sean243,
> So you think all the guys getting 360ibo are flat out liars with a hot chrono? or did I miss read that?


Haha.. Yeah you miss read that part. I was being sarcastic and trying to save the guy I was responding to from having to repeat what he has been implying throughout this thread.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

Sean243 said:


> Haha.. Yeah you miss read that part. I was being sarcastic and trying to save the guy I was responding to from having to repeat what he has been implying throughout this thread.



LOL , I thought I was misreading it so I asked.


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## mongopino915 (Mar 3, 2009)

bowtech2006 said:


> Sean243,
> So you think all the guys getting 360ibo are flat out liars with a hot chrono? or did I miss read that?


I think you miss read that. He was trying to make a point with a little sarcasm.

Edit: A little late as Sean already responded.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

bowtech2006 said:


> LOL , I thought I was misreading it so I asked.


It's my fault, I should of put the whole comment in quotation marks.... Might of helped... My 7th grade English teacher hated me and I spent more time in the hall then/than???? in the class. LOL


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

Sean243 said:


> It's my fault, I should of put the whole comment in quotation marks.... Might of helped... My 7th grade English teacher hated me and I spent more time in the hall then/than???? in the class. LOL


Same here, I can't spell worth a crap or write a complete sentence. I was more of a math student. lol or chase girls student.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

bowtech2006 said:


> Same here, I can't spell worth a crap or write a complete sentence. I was more of a math student. lol or chase girls student.


Hahaha... I think the math types are drawn to this thread... after all, there are a lot of numbers being thrown around.


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

sneak1413 said:


> Remember chrono graphs make a bigger difference usually than the tune itself. I could probably squeeze a couple more fps out of it and is love to take the same bow with the same chrono and have a tune off I bet most decent tuners would all be within 1 fps of each other. It has been stated that the pro chrono is 5-8 fps slow which would put our bow right at 357-360 ibo.


Sneak - no way your chrono is slow, to claim it is 5-8 fps slow is ridiculous. Why - look at the other bows speed through your chrono., they are actually at IBO or better. If you add 5-8 fps to every bow their speeds would be exceeding IBO by a bunch. This is why it is beneficial to have the guys that are getting IBO to shoot other bows, same arrow, thru their chronos so we have reference points.

BTW I am not implying that the RPM is not making IBO, just want to set comparisons to other bows


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## CTGuenthner (Mar 10, 2012)

I assume this is Brice? And yeah I agree with exactly what you said! Thanks for the real life arrow weights and not being biased!


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## M4Madness (Oct 24, 2007)

sneak1413 said:


> Remember chrono graphs make a bigger difference usually than the tune itself. I could probably squeeze a couple more fps out of it and is love to take the same bow with the same chrono and have a tune off I bet most decent tuners would all be within 1 fps of each other. It has been stated that the pro chrono is 5-8 fps slow which would put our bow right at 357-360 ibo.


I know of an RPM that pulled off a 367. Even if 7 FPS were knocked off for a "hot" chrono, it still makes IBO.


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## wbates (Jul 24, 2010)

M4Madness said:


> I know of an RPM that pulled off a 367. Even if 7 FPS were knocked off for a "hot" chrono, it still makes IBO.


Can I have it lol:wink:


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## Tn10point (Mar 5, 2005)

After all the talk about the pro chrono reading slow. I'm wondering how right the speed I got with my DNA SP shooting through a brand new pro chrono with the led light kit are. According to all the online calculators my speed is off. 
DNA SP
28.5dl
50.51lbs 
333 gr arrow
Pro chrono says 283fps


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## IDHunter3 (Aug 26, 2013)

sneak1413 said:


> Yes the full throttle was only 60 lbs but you can see it still stacked up against other 70lb speed bows and with the lighter weight drew much easier.


But why did you go with only 60lbs and the rest at 70lbs? Was it miserable to pull back at 70lbs?


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## wbates (Jul 24, 2010)

Any speed/ibo updates out there?


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

Tn10point said:


> After all the talk about the pro chrono reading slow. I'm wondering how right the speed I got with my DNA SP shooting through a brand new pro chrono with the led light kit are. According to all the online calculators my speed is off.
> DNA SP
> 28.5dl
> 50.51lbs
> ...


For reference my DNA through a pro chrono with the IR light kit:

60#
28"
351 gr arrow
306 fps


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

IDHunter3 said:


> But why did you go with only 60lbs and the rest at 70lbs? Was it miserable to pull back at 70lbs?


I have not drawn a full throttle at 70lbs. The full throttle in the test was my personal bow and was set at peak weight of the bow, the bow is "detuned" as many would call it because i under rotated the cams to get my preferred draw length.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

CTGuenthner said:


> I assume this is Brice? And yeah I agree with exactly what you said! Thanks for the real life arrow weights and not being biased!


You caught me


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## armedic1 (May 23, 2008)

I'm new to this calculation stuff. If I'm shooting the RPM 360 at a 28.5 inch draw weight at the maximum poundage of 70.6# and a 394 grain arrow weight, what should I expect to get in speed? Just curious because I'm looking to buy a new bow this year.


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## stampy (Jul 11, 2010)

I've only had one bow make ibo through my pro chrono, that was a hoyt vector turbo with rkt cams, set at 60.5 lbs, number 2 cam in the E slot. all the rest fall 8 short. 2 Easton chrony's that I've shot through read the same as my pro chrony, so whatever talk there is out there about eastons being hot is b.s. I would like to add that draw length seems to trump let off in the speed department, so don't correct your draw length by .5" and decrease your letoff to 70 percent hoping for a gain, p.s I want to ditch my answer for an rkt cammed bow. my dl is 27, 60


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## benkharr (Dec 20, 2011)

Great info Sneak!


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## RackSmacker (Nov 26, 2010)

Dude, Bryce, this was stressful to read, I'm never getting that 45 min back. BTW I have shot these EXACT bows. Sneaks data is spot on. And I have tested the chrono against 2 others, all three chronos with +\- 1fps with each other. I'm going to bed now.


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## bigblock534 (Aug 29, 2008)

Bowtech RPM360 loaded string,Pro chrono with light kit

70.6#
30"
351 gr. arrow
350 fps


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## gjs4 (Jan 10, 2006)

345 gr arrow w peep and loop on both- 27" rpm 60 lbs 299 27" 63lb evo 288. Both seem slow of ibo imo


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