# tuning problem, tail right tear, I'm about to kill my bow!



## J.W. Shooter (Feb 15, 2004)

Sounds to me like the bow is out of time! Try putting 2-3 twists in the control-cable and see what it does! If it gets worse, go back to original and take 2-3 twists out! One way or the other should fix it! I would bet you need about 3 twists more!


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*could be a few things*

JW is probably right. A few other things I can think of would be nock height. One of my bows was shooting a bit inconsistent, and I shot a bare shaft to check the tune. The arrow almost got sideways on its way to the target. The rest was in what looked like a good position centershot wise. My nock was too high. Raising the rest fixed the tail right problem for me. I did have pretty much the same issue you are talking about when I had my Trophy Taker. E-mailed the company, and really didn't get any worthwhile help. I ended up selling the rest, but from what I've read on different forums, different tuning issues can be caused when the TT drops too fast, and the arrow never gets any stabilization from the rest. Your rest might be dropping too fast.


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

You failed to mention two very important things: draw length and peak weight. It sounds like the arrow is way too stiff. If you shot the correct spined arrow with the rest way to the left you will not get a bullet hole I guarantee!


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## Stringman (Apr 10, 2005)

*Check twice, adjust once.*

Step back, slow down and take a deep breath before you make any more fine tuning adjustments. When people bring their bows in to me with complaints about arrow flight, the first thing I do is check the basics. Usually the problem turns out to be in the rest adjustment (centershot and height) , nock height or uneven tiller. Make sure your limbs are turned out the same amount from bottom. Set your rest so that the arrow is even with the rest mounting hole at full draw and return your centershot to dead-nuts center. Set the nock height about 1/8 inch high. This should get you back to a solid stating point. Shoot the bow with a relaxed grip. If you are grouping arrows 2 inches at 20 yards again, good shooting! People may disagree with me when I say don't worry about paper tuning just yet. If you're hitting bulls-eyes at 20 yards, it probably does'nt matter if the arrow is not shooting bullet holes a few feet in front of the bow. I know you tried different arrows with the same results but if you insist on paper tuning try shooting a lighter point weight to see if that affects the tear. Also make sure the loop your shooting from is'nt slipping and pinching the nock and make sure that you are not punching the release. Pull that trigger like you would if you were shooting woodchucks at a 1000 yards with your favorite rifle! That can make all the difference in the world. Last but not least, make sure that the draw length is correct. It may sound stupid now but I've found that the majority of people that visit my shop have a bow that is too long for them whether they bought the bow new or used. I'm 5'11" and have a true draw length of a hair over 28". A lot of people come in swearing their draw is 30" standing an inch or two shorter than me. Shooting a draw length significantly longer than you should shoot will have a profound effect on your accuracy and arrow flight. Good luck with the bow


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## jwarren (Apr 9, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. 
A couple things I forgot to mention is that I tried a 100 grain point and seemed to have the same tear. I also tried different settings with the trophy taker, going from full upright in 3" all the way down to 1". Its at about 2" now and I finally got vane clearance. I tried torquing and punching the trigger in addtion to properlly squeezing and that didn't change the tear much if at all. I also briefly tried a prong style rest and still got a profound TR tear. I just reduced my draw length a couple weeks ago from 29-28 and started shooting really good. That is when I decided to try to paper tune the thing. I had an illusion that I could turkey hunt with it this weekend but instead I'll be paper tuning. The only pro shop in town is a bunch of incompetents most of which don't even shoot bows. I might see if I can use their bow press and try the control cable length manipulation if a couple more days don't get positive results.


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## cassellm (Feb 13, 2004)

*Same Problem*

I had a tear from my Q2 with a Trophy Taker and NO MATTER what I did I got the same tear. I had the guy who talked me into buying it shoot my bow and he got the same tear and couldn't get it to change no matter where we put the rest left or right. I put my NAP Micro Adjust 3000 back on and got the tear to tear left and right and then to a bullet hole. I am now using a Drop Zone and BY NO MEANS am saying it was the Trophy Taker. I honestly feel a drop away doesn't show adjustments like a fixed rest.


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## elkski (Feb 4, 2005)

*I'm old school but in my day!!! I could Tune a bow.*

I assume you have your tiller and cam timing adjusted properly and the correctly sized arrow? I also assume your nocks are in straight and your not pinching them!
Back 20 years ago before rests had micro adjustable features I learned by using a micrometer that adjustments as small as 10 thousands of an inch (.010") could show up on a paper test. I have seen a person miss the sweet spot using rests that don't have micro adjustment features or if you move it to far in one test. Believe me it is possible to get a tear tail right with the rest in a position to far right or left of the sweet spot. (THis applies to a fixed rest and I will try to explain it quickly here. If the rest is to far right the rear of your arrow can be kicked hard to the right by the left side of the rest and if your rest is to far left the rear of the arrow can just plow the spring rest out of the way) So make your adjustments in small .010" increments. I must say I have never adjusted or shot a dropaway! I use foot powder spray to check for vane clearance and other contacts and make sure you spray it everywhere near the rest window and on the rear third of the arrow! Next what kind of paper are you using and how is it held? I like newsprint and taped down to my frame on 4 or 8 spots and tight. It seems to me that many shops make there own paper tuning frame and use whatever roll of paper they can find or a target face. target paper is much to strong and will effect your arrow flight rather than just give you a picture of what its doing. Make sure the paper is shot at perpendicular to the arrow flight. sometimes this means you have to kneel and shoot! You can't use to soft of paper in my opinion. Next, make sure the paper is not contacted until the arrow leaves your string which might be 2-3" in front of the normal string positon as the nock sticks some. Also be carefull of your target material using bare shafts because I have bent some brand new shafts 
this way. 
One more thing about paper tuning. you do need to start with the paper very close to the bow to know what is intially happening to your arrow because with your hard tail right condition I have no doubt that if you did a paper test at some distand of 8-15 yards that you would have a tail tear left conditon as the air reacts on the vanes and tries to correct the arrow flight. 
Just remember it is quite a good feeling when your paper test are clean or near it at 1, 8, and 15 yards and usually means that a fixed blade broadhead (if installed perfectly and aligned and spin checked) will impact very near target tips.


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

Reducing your draw length 1" will effectively stiffen the arrow. I need to know your draw weight, arrow spine and shaft length if you want my help. If not, have fun and go kill a turkey!


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

Check all the basic stuff like the others above have suggested. Even to taking everything off and starting over again. 

Set the tiller at even, the nock square to 1/8" high and the centershot in the middle, then group tune to a vertical line. If you want to tune it even finer, group tune at a longer range. Then tiller tune to a horizontal line.

Trophy Taker is a good rest. Unless you got a defective one, there is nothing wrong with it. Set it so the prong is up as long as possible without fletch contact.

Since you were getting good groups before you started paper tuning, there is nothing wrong with the bow. Forget about paper tuning. Sometimes there is more frustration than value with paper. The ultimate goal of tuning is a bow that shoots where you want it to. There are no compititions or recipes for bullet holes in paper.  

Good luck and let us know how it works out.
Allen


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

jwarren:

Having looked for the problems and tried all the cures that you have stated, you might be correct that the problem is "bow induced."

I don't know how old your bow is or if the bow was purchased used. Regardless, being that a bow can come from the factory defective, or the shop damaged the bow setting it up, if you have not already done so I suggest you check for worn or missing bushing(s), bent axle(s), bent riser, bad limb pocket(s), and check that the eccentrics are properly aligned on the limbs.

You have to be close to wrapping that bow around a tree.!


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

Stop.

Forget the paper and start tuning your broadheads to group with your field tips. This will get rid of the giant frustration you have now and develope confidence as you realize things aren't as bad as they seem and the bow shoots broadheads just fine.

I simply tune my broadheads to get as close as possible to my fieldtips and call it good. Then I group test my broadheads to make sure they are accurate at the distances I intend to shoot. Are you telling me that you couldn't shoot a turkey at 20 yards with the accuracy you are getting out of your bow now? Move your rest back close to center, do a walk back tune to fine tune the center and then break out the broadheads.


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## oggie2635 (Mar 2, 2005)

how far away are you from the paper? i had a similar problem and i was way to far back. try 6 feet and see if your tear is better. you could be trying to tune out arrow flex and that won't ever be gone.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Your problem might wel be a grip torque issue.

I have the same "problem" - no matter what adjustment I made I had a right tear. I solved it with a grip adjustment.

I would suggest you put everything back to where it's supposed to be, and then try putting pressure on the right side of your grip when you shoot, and see if the problem goes away. Another confirmation would be to have someone else shoot your bow and see how the arrow reacts. If this works, then simply build up the right side of your grip with some body filler or epoxy material, or stick on one of those Sims insulator strips on the right side of the grip.


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