# Rage hypodermic...no phd required, especially when...



## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Hypodermic..no phd required, especially when you take other peoples ideas. This head looks identical to one of my concepts which was posted on here a while back. ...moral of story, dont customize or make anything and put it on the internet especially when ur wanting to get in the business. Im sure ill get smartass remarks but yes I do know this crap happens. First you buy muzzy to get in fixed blade market then you take ideas from others on the net, your really pushing the innovative envelope. Yea yea every head is a knock off of a different head I know. ..just dont make anything and post it up on here. Keep ur frankenheads to yourselves!


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## kevinfoerster (Jul 10, 2009)

curious to see your link to the head you made, and curious to see the link to their new head.


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

Who? HUH? What?

Pics?


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I understand how heads are variations, hell their are so many gravedigger knock offs coming out is unreal. Id.be pissed if I were dale but its part of the business I guess. I wouldnt be that upset if I didnt have machine time and money wrapped up into the one I was designing


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I got the rage pic txtd to me. Maybe onepin will post it up. May be on the net. Im not near computer


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I basically made a frankenhead on here that did awesome so then I started on a prototype of it to make my own variation and a few more tweaks but looks like rage was quicker, and more financially backed...im not posting my final version for reasons stated above but theirs looks like the raging ulmer.


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)




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## Huntrgathr (Aug 1, 2010)

Not even an Associates Degree required....


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks crankin. mine was machined steel ferrule with .050 expansion blades, not that it matters. Back to drawing board


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Just a garage degree


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

sethro02 said:


> Thanks crankin. mine was machined steel ferrule with .050 expansion blades, not that it matters. Back to drawing board


 Screw that. Make an American made BH with a 1-3/4" or 2" cut and I bet it sells good. I know im sick of borrowing money from China then buying products made there.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I agree. And I was on the right track. I havea badass machinist in town with time on his hands! Lol


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Maybe I can just buy steelforce then mass produce the phathead sob. Their ya go crankin


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Make it anyway.


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)




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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

sethro02 said:


> Thanks crankin. mine was machined steel ferrule with .050 expansion blades, not that it matters. Back to drawing board


Don't give up sethro if you can build your heads with .050 blades and a steel ferrul at 125gr with atleast a 2.5" cut you will sale more than you can make.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

TimmyZ7 said:


> View attachment 1556313


I have to say, I do like that.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Wonder if their blades are stronger than other rage bh's


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

Yeah Seth, I am not brand loyal but loyal to people. Make that broadhead and I will post up some kills pics along with the others!


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

0nepin said:


> Don't give up sethro if you can build your heads with .050 blades and a steel ferrul at 125gr with atleast a 2.5" cut you will sale more than you can make.


Yep, bigger is better! Jk....im thinking 3" cut though...80ke or higher with a 430 grain arrow or heavier...i better shut up


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Can some one post a pic of the raging ulmer next to the hypodermic.almost looks like a carbon copy


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I can when I get home. The ferrule I machined is about the same length as a slick trick ferrule


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Maybe dan evans can give me some deep six ulmers and we will have a showdown. Better yet deep six real deal test!


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)




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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

That head does look killer though!:faint:


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

crankn101 said:


> That head does look killer though!:faint:


I agree!


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

Gunna be tough for me to give up the titaniums...


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## rutnstrut (Sep 16, 2003)

crankn101 said:


> That head does look killer though!:faint:


Yup, unless they are a 100.00 for three.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

Isn't a Frankenhead taking a head that is already being produced and making modifications to the head? Then who is copying who?


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

mez said:


> Isn't a Frankenhead taking a head that is already being produced and making modifications to the head? Then who is copying who?


Kinda what I was thinking....


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

mez said:


> Isn't a Frankenhead taking a head that is already being produced and making modifications to the head? Then who is copying who?


Was thinking the same thing


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

yes but i took it a step further then just a frankenhead.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

I wonder if this new rage head will be for the deep six inserts?


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

It is


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

chaded said:


> I wonder if this new rage head will be for the deep six inserts?


The pic I posted is on a deep six arrow


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

TimmyZ7 said:


> The pic I posted is on a deep six arrow


Yeah I know, that's why I was wondering if it is only going to be for them or will they make them for standard size as well. I guess my question was worded like I was just interested in the deep six.


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## captnemo (Nov 13, 2011)

mn5503 said:


> Kinda what I was thinking....


sethro you took a rage (already a proven winner, with rages probably hundreds of thousands of dollars of R&D) then sharpened the tip a little and trimmed the blades...you didn't re-invent the wheel, you simple took a hand grinder to an already awesome head. Put your big girl panties on and stop crying. I'm sure that home made pos was really going to compete with the rage line up


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## rutnstrut (Sep 16, 2003)

captnemo said:


> sethro you took a rage (already a proven winner, with rages probably hundreds of thousands of dollars of R&D) then sharpened the tip a little and trimmed the blades...you didn't re-invent the wheel, you simple took a hand grinder to an already awesome head. Put your big girl panties on and stop crying. I'm sure that home made pos was really going to compete with the rage line up


How do you know what the hell he was working on? Most of the products in the archery industry are ideas someone else improved upon.


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## G-E-D (Nov 5, 2010)

Did someone just call rage a winner?


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## Chiro_Archer (Jun 6, 2011)

I am curious what he is working on, don't give up brother, you never know what is going to happen until to follow through! I remember actually seeing a youtube video on that raging Ulmer, interesting look to it, just never fully got into Rage as a head, heard too many bad things about the blades popping open before they were supposed to or flying off on impact. But that was with the older rages, haven't heard nearly as many bad things with the newer ones, but Sethro has definitely sparked my curiosity, keep it up man you will get there


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

captnemo said:


> sethro you took a rage (already a proven winner, with rages probably hundreds of thousands of dollars of R&D) then sharpened the tip a little and trimmed the blades...you didn't re-invent the wheel, you simple took a hand grinder to an already awesome head. Put your big girl panties on and stop crying. I'm sure that home made pos was really going to compete with the rage line up


Did alot more than that buddy, stop acting like a badass. Big girl panties? you steal that line from ur daddy?


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks guys cant wait to actually get this other head going...u wont see a pic until its pateneted


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## CjsPapa0504 (Dec 24, 2011)

Kind of a stupid thing, but learned this a while back. 

Because patenting takes so much time, an easy to way to show that you came up with idea "A" on "X" date, take all the drawings, and pictures, and send them certified mail to yourself, so there is record, and don't open the package. At least while the patent is going through, you can show that you came up with it on whatever day the mail was. 

Good luck on the future works, hope they work out for ya! Like the one you posted!

A.J.


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

sethro02 said:


> Thanks guys cant wait to actually get this other head going...u wont see a pic until its pateneted


You're contradicting yourself. First you say rage made a broadhead identical to one you posted on here. Now you are saying your head won't be posted up until its patented?


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## A CASE DEEP (Sep 6, 2012)

How much is it going to cost is my question.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I had a few protos in the making. The one the thread is about I had to scratch. So im moving on with a different one now. Sorry, should have worded it differently


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

A CASE DEEP said:


> How much is it going to cost is my question.


I bet $49.99


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

sethro02 said:


> I had a few protos in the making. The one the thread is about I had to scratch. So im moving on with a different one now. Sorry, should have worded it differently


Ahhhh I see. If you scratched that idea and have another proto in design phase , how does their new head affect you?


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

Some of you guys need to give him a break. He is an American trying to have machined an American made product for the rest of us that he feels passionately about. That sounds like a recipe for success to me and I will continue to encourage him. Did anyone being critical share their sentiments with N.A.P. (killzone), G5 (Havoc), etc. when they clearly redesigning the Rage platform with their own features. Sethro has put more time in testing broadheads, posting spreadsheets, collecting data directly from A/T members then any manufacturer I am aware of. Now he is trying to give back and some want to make unsupportive comments. The raging Ulmer is not the head he is referring to, a fabricated new design is what's in the works from what he says. Keep your head up Seth there are plenty of us that will do our part where you need help!


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks timmy. 

Not trying to get anything out of this, just saying if you guys like to tinker and fabricate and possibly have something you feel is worth something then dont tell anyone no matter how excited you are about it.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

g-e-d said:


> did someone just call rage a winner?


lol!


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I will say this after hunting with rage for the last 4 or 5 years and then hunting with the raging ulmer this season,I know without a dout that the raging ulmer is far supieor to anything rage has built sofar.what Seth did was make the best penetrating big cut rear deploying head ever.with his massive online broadhead test he got lots of attenion from the big company as result they took his head idea and are now going to start manufacturing them witch will benefit all of us.I wish Seth could of made some $$$ off it because there would never of been a rage hypodermic with out Seth .so I say THANK YOU SETH for the raging ulmer and all the time and money you spent on testing .


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

If that's directed at me Timmy , I'm just trying to get a grasp of what it is that has him upset. The rage is a redesigned snyper. Actually the new rage in earlier posts is closer to the snyper than most previous rages. From Seth's original post it appeared as though he was referring to the " raging ulmer". If that's the case he designed neither the ferrel nor the blades ( the only two components to the broadhead). For it to be considered his design is a bit of a stretch IMO. If however he has a new design , best of luck to him and like always ill be interested in seeing the results.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Tganks onepin, you got badass ideas yourself


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

you really don't have a clue.


captnemo said:


> sethro you took a rage (already a proven winner, with rages probably hundreds of thousands of dollars of R&D) then sharpened the tip a little and trimmed the blades...you didn't re-invent the wheel, you simple took a hand grinder to an already awesome head. Put your big girl panties on and stop crying. I'm sure that home made pos was really going to compete with the rage line up[/


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I took the raging ulmer and made my own ferrule and.blades based off of it. I was only upset because I was close to having a finished prototype of it after spending some coin to then find this out.


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

sethro02 said:


> I took the raging ulmer and made my own ferrule and.blades based off of it. I was only upset because I was close to having a finished prototype of it after spending some coin to then find this out.


If you manage a good broadhead and find a way to undercut their price you'll get customers. At worst they will have to lower prices.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Agreed. Its good I have buddies with machine shops. Give em a case a beer and I can play on the lathe all weekend


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## pinski79 (Jan 23, 2010)

not sure what to think of this seth, other then I hope you end up making some nice heads


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

scottiwad4 said:


> If that's directed at me Timmy , I'm just trying to get a grasp of what it is that has him upset. The rage is a redesigned snyper. Actually the new rage in earlier posts is closer to the snyper than most previous rages. From Seth's original post it appeared as though he was referring to the " raging ulmer". If that's the case he designed neither the ferrel nor the blades ( the only two components to the broadhead). For it to be considered his design is a bit of a stretch IMO. If however he has a new design , best of luck to him and like always ill be interested in seeing the results.


It wasn't directed to you or anyone in particular or I would have sent a p.m. with my thoughts. I noticed the atmosphere of this thread turning from give it a shot anyway Seth to give it up Seth. I would rather gather support for a fellow ATer who has contributed more than most on this forum to his fellow bowhunter. I don't think archers helping archers means telling one of our own to quit rather then persevere, that's all.


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

I thought the idea of posting franken-heads was to showcase innovation, and share the technology/modifications *freely*, for the benefit of all ATrs. To take a product, drill

some holes in it, duct tape some other components on it, and end up with something better. This is what it should be. Sharing is caring. Just check the DIY section.


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, if you are trying to develop BHs to compete with the market, I wish you luck, and success. But, IMHO you shouldn't get *sour* about your contributions 

to AT, and all those you have helped as a result. :thumbs_up


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## DUCKORBLEED (Dec 17, 2008)

sethro02 said:


> I bet $49.99


I bet thats overpriced lol..


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## Top Dog Rick (Aug 2, 2008)

0nepin said:


> I will say this after hunting with rage for the last 4 or 5 years and then hunting with the raging ulmer this season,I know without a dout that the raging ulmer is far supieor to anything rage has built sofar.what Seth did was make the best penetrating big cut rear deploying head ever.with his massive online broadhead test he got lots of attenion from the big company as result they took his head idea and are now going to start manufacturing them witch will benefit all of us.I wish Seth could of made some $$$ off it because there would never of been a rage hypodermic with out Seth .so I say THANK YOU SETH for the raging ulmer and all the time and money you spent on testing .


Does Sethro Sell raging ulmers ???


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

No I dont


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## James Vee (Aug 26, 2006)

Maybe Rage and you had been working on the concept simultaneously and they finished first?


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## wildthing (Sep 12, 2003)

I'm stickin to the Ulmers they're alot more accurate then rage heads.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Maybe, dont know


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## Extreme vft17 (Mar 29, 2007)

Good luck Seth, you have the talent to make some great stuff. Hope to see your designs real soon.


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## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

I like the looks of the new rage, one piece ferrule. can not believe I just said that:zip:


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## catfishmafia76 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sorry to hear about this Seth regardless if they stole the idea or had it also, it sux for you. Keep up the good work and success will follow, it's only a matter of time.


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

Sethro2

Could it be Rage started working on this design back when the Ulmer was a prototype in 2011?

The concept is not rocket science and I wanted to see this in 2009.

Could Rage have lurked AT and your threads to come up with a new broadhead design? I guess it's possible but not likely IMO

If it makes you feel better as a frankenhead designer then yes Rage followed your threads, met with their design team and ripped off your design.

I don't think this is the case.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

thanks guys


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## trapper.robi (Jul 9, 2011)

Feel bad for ya Seth... you started quite of bit of interest on AT. I loved the test and the frankenheads, in fact just shot a doe two days ago with the raging ulmer. I was really impressed. So here's a big thank you for all you have done, i have enjoyed following everything you have done on here. Hope you can get some patents for your hard work and designs, really looking forward to what you have to offer in the future. Thanks


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

All all steel ferrule is definitely needed, like the original Rocket Steelheads. Those things are awesome, but a larger diameter cut would be nice for people with higher KE. I don't think you need a 3" CD though. That takes a lot of blade to do, which weakens them and also causes higher planing issues. I think a strong design with a 2" cut would be awesome. What I don't like about the Ulmer head is that the metal "flaps" that deploy the blades also block the cutting edge of the blades when open. That kept me from hunting with them after I tried them. Keep up the great work.


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## James Vee (Aug 26, 2006)

I'd like the opposite of a larger cut. I'd rather see a 1.25-1.5" cut.


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## jkm97 (Jul 8, 2004)

James Vee said:


> I'd like the opposite of a larger cut. I'd rather see a 1.25-1.5" cut.


Me too. 2" tops.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Interesting guys thanks

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Take away the o-ring or the shock collar and that head is called an NAP Killzone. Looks like NAP beat you both to the punch.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Huntinsker said:


> Take away the o-ring or the shock collar and that head is called an NAP Killzone. Looks like NAP beat you both to the punch.


Have you ever seen a Gator? Snyper?


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## rutnstrut (Sep 16, 2003)

Huntinsker said:


> Take away the o-ring or the shock collar and that head is called an NAP Killzone. Looks like NAP beat you both to the punch.


It would help if you know what you were talking about before you typed it, Gator and Snyper were waaay before the Killzone.


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

Regardless this not the Manhatten Project...it's a broadhead design that likely happened independently from Sethro's frankenhead.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

rutnstrut said:


> It would help if you know what you were talking about before you typed it, Gator and Snyper were waaay before the Killzone.


You just proved my point. They were before the Killzone and they were before the Hypodermic or this frankenhead. The Killzone came out recently so I figured people would be more aware of what it was. Either way not one of these "new" heads is original or new.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Huntinsker said:


> Take away the o-ring or the shock collar and that head is called an NAP Killzone. Looks like NAP beat you both to the punch.


Works different, dont want a head that has a bolt sticking out of ferrule

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## rutnstrut (Sep 16, 2003)

Huntinsker said:


> You just proved my point. They were before the Killzone and they were before the Hypodermic or this frankenhead. The Killzone came out recently so I figured people would be more aware of what it was. Either way not one of these "new" heads is original or new.


Very little in archery is new, it's mostly improved upon existing technology. Not just archery, but trying to stay on topic.


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## G20 (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm no engineer but what's the difference besides looks compared to Rage now? It still opens the same way correct? Is something different that makes it better?


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

rutnstrut said:


> Very little in archery is new, it's mostly improved upon existing technology. Not just archery, but trying to stay on topic.


That's been true of basically everything since the wheel. I think sethro02 should build his head and make it better than all the ones before. If it is, he'll be able to compete. But you shouldn't get upset that Rage put it out before you. There are tons of people looking for an alternative to Rage products. I'd love to see a small company that's made in the US compete with the big boys.


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## bardman (Oct 18, 2006)

crankn101 said:


> Screw that. Make an American made BH with a 1-3/4" or 2" cut and I bet it sells good. I know im sick of borrowing money from China then buying products made there.


X 10 I would buy and use it in a minute. Damn tired of having my sport being exported to country's that cant even enjoy the freedom of bowhunting.


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## Shelby (Jan 10, 2004)

mez said:


> Isn't a Frankenhead taking a head that is already being produced and making modifications to the head? Then who is copying who?


Exactly!


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## bardman (Oct 18, 2006)

chaded said:


> Have you ever seen a Gator? Snyper?


Look on the back of the package of a Rage and any Rockey Mountain product. Address is same.


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

http://www.basspro.com/RedHead-Gator-Expandable-Broadheads-or-Replacement-Blades/product/10206975/

*Similar to the ole' Gator???*


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

They purchased the old Rocky Mountain company.

The Rage is a cousin of the old RM Syper and Gators.


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

mez said:


> Isn't a Frankenhead taking a head that is already being produced and making modifications to the head? Then who is copying who?



Good point thus no reason for the OP to accuse someone of "stealing" his idea.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

The ulmer ferrule is much sleeker than any rage or snyper ferrule.the nap killzone is pure junk not even .1% as good as the raging ulmer.


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## kylecurtis04 (Nov 30, 2010)

take some common sense classes man. He had a prototype going that he posted on here a while back, then rage came out with basically the same head he had prototyped so he had to scratch it because rage has it now.


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

kylecurtis04 said:


> take some common sense classes man. He had a prototype going that he posted on here a while back, then rage came out with basically the same head he had prototyped so he had to scratch it because rage has it now.


Common sense?

Can you prove Rage "stole" his idea?


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

General RE LEE said:


> Good point thus no reason for the OP to accuse someone of "stealing" his idea.


I don't know,but I do know this Seth took a badass ferrule and modified it to use a much better and bigger rear deploring blade system.fact is the raging ulmer is much more lethal than either the ulmer edge or rage heads.Seth is like the first guy that put a v8 in a pickup.he did not invent either but putting them together was pure magic.


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

0nepin said:


> I don't know,but I do know this Seth took a badass ferrule and modified it to use a much better and bigger rear deploring blade system.fact is the raging ulmer is much more lethal than either the ulmer edge or rage heads.Seth is like the first guy that put a v8 in a pickup.he did not invent either but putting them together was pure magic.


Absolutely and its a mean head

But its not like a rear deploying, 4 blade head with a tracker beam. If Rage came out with something exactly like a rear deploying, 4 blade head with a tracker beam then "common sense" would lead one to believe Rage copied the head. The Rage head looks pretty simple and just so happens is similar to the frankenhead. The new Rage head looks to be a "logical" evolution of the Rage head vs a copy of a franken head off Archery Talk.

If it makes the OP feel more "accomplished" that Rage copied his design then I don't want to get in the way of such a pleasureable thought.


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## kylecurtis04 (Nov 30, 2010)

I didn't say they stole his idea. I was explaining what was already said in the thread. Just use common sense and read the thread so you can answer your own question.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

To bad Seth,But i will be shooting the New Rages or the Raging Ulmer next season..Grizz


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

You can't really believe this.the hypodermic ferrule is nothing like any other rage ferrule and it's a spot on a raging ulmer clone.you have to give Seth is due credit.


General RE LEE said:


> Absolutely and its a mean head
> 
> But its not like a rear deploying, 4 blade head with a tracker beam. If Rage came out with something exactly like a rear deploying, 4 blade head with a tracker beam then "common sense" would lead one to believe Rage copied the head. The Rage head looks pretty simple and just so happens is similar to the frankenhead. The new Rage head looks to be a "logical" evolution of the Rage head vs a copy of a franken head off Archery Talk.
> 
> If it makes the OP feel more "accomplished" that Rage copied his design then I don't want to get in the way of such a pleasureable thought.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Look, this is mainly about me taking the ra6ing ulmer and starting my own machine work using my own money to create my own. Changes were made because I cant use slipcam, patent isnt up for a few more years. I dont want to feel accomplished I simply started tgis to inform guys not to post or to be careful what ur posting. You think companies dont lurk on this site? I had a dozen of them call me! ...5 of them wanted me to stop testing. So yes they pay attention. If u got something cool keep it to urself until u can protect it legally.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

And onepin your badass too..if I installed the v8 then you put the torbocharger on! Lol...that was kinda cheezy my bad


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

Ok so Rage copied your head so...

Instead of doing what most "inventors" do which includes applying for a patent and coming up with a business plan to either produce the head for market or sell the concept you...

...shared it to everyone on AT and the concept got stolen.

Sorry for your luck but should have thought about that before you shared the concept.

Congrats though on being the mind behind the new head

Maybe they wil send you a pack lol


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Man that stinks Seth. Would have liked to see you make that head. I might have tried a mechanical. Buy Steelforce for sure brother. They are such great heads and need market exposure. With a little exposure I would bet they would sell as well as Muzzy and Magnus in the fixed blade market.


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## nvarcher1 (Dec 20, 2011)

G-E-D said:


> Did someone just call rage a winner?


Hahahahaha! That got me too!


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## solohunter (Feb 22, 2005)

Wonder if it will come in 3 blade? Looks nice and that it will fly like a dart out of a well-tuned bow.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

The new rage head is for the deep six. This was all part of the muzzy deal and Easton. Rage has been working on a steel deep six broadhead with Easton and Muzzy since before Injections came out. Not sure anyone is copying anyone


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

bornagain said:


> The new rage head is for the deep six. This was all part of the muzzy deal and Easton. Rage has been working on a steel deep six broadhead with Easton and Muzzy since before Injections came out. Not sure anyone is copying anyone


Your silly


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

Rage said at last years ATA they were working with Easton on a steel deep six broadhead


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## Rg176bnc (Dec 13, 2004)

It would be ignorant to think that folks in the broadhead industry wouldnt cruise AT. Most like to hunt as much as we do.

Did they take his idea who knows. If I were the OP I would think the same thing. Bet it wont happen again which is unfortunate for us, Im digging these fraken threads. 

A 2" 3 blade rear deployed w/ a small COC head would sell well I think. Kind of like the ones Wally World sells just with beffier blades.


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## ghost1 (Mar 1, 2007)

G20 said:


> I'm no engineer but what's the difference besides looks compared to Rage now? It still opens the same way correct? Is something different that makes it better?


NO Still will have the same old problems


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

Dont know who stole what from who but if they offer these new Rage heads in regular size and they are one piece and steel I think they will be awesome!


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Viper69 said:


> Dont know who stole what from who but if they offer these new Rage heads in regular size and they are one piece and steel I think they will be awesome!


I would certainly try them out if they did.


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## Liv4Nov (Feb 22, 2007)

sethro02 said:


> Look, this is mainly about me taking the ra6ing ulmer and starting my own machine work using my own money to create my own. Changes were made because I cant use slipcam, patent isnt up for a few more years. I dont want to feel accomplished I simply started tgis to inform guys not to post or to be careful what ur posting. You think companies dont lurk on this site? I had a dozen of them call me! ...5 of them wanted me to stop testing. So yes they pay attention. If u got something cool keep it to urself until u can protect it legally.


You should create a cologne that smells like the beach.


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## KY_BowGuy (Oct 30, 2012)

Seth, do you have 3 I can buy from you?


2013 Spyder 30
27" @ 65# Easton Axis--282 fps


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Liv4Nov said:


> You should create a cologne that smells like the beach.


Ill stick with manly stuff not smelly stuff but thanks


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

KY_BowGuy said:


> Seth, do you have 3 I can buy from you?
> 
> 
> 2013 Spyder 30
> 27" @ 65# Easton Axis--282 fps


Nope, I have prototype versions. The one im currently working on though hopefully ill be able to produce. Ill need testers when the time comes so ill get with you on that


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

mez said:


> Isn't a Frankenhead taking a head that is already being produced and making modifications to the head? Then who is copying who?


yup and doesn't Rage have a patent on their "slip cam" design? i'm not trying to discourage you, i hope you do it make it big. Fred Bear started Bear Archery in his garage. however, coming on here and accusing someone of stealing your idea is just arrogant. especially when your idea was just a modification of one of their already existing products. also, how do you know they weren't already working on this head prior to you starting your work?


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## Screename (Aug 15, 2011)

Liv4Nov said:


> You should create a cologne that smells like the beach.


Kramer!! Lol

-sent from Samsung GS3


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

Liv4Nov said:


> You should create a cologne that smells like the beach.


I'd like to see a spray that makes dog poop disappear. :noidea:


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

CamoCop said:


> yup and doesn't Rage have a patent on their "slip cam" design? i'm not trying to discourage you, i hope you do it make it big. Fred Bear started Bear Archery in his garage. however, coming on here and accusing someone of stealing your idea is just arrogant. especially when your idea was just a modification of one of their already existing products. also, how do you know they weren't already working on this head prior to you starting your work?


Man thats weak bro.beside the foundation for Seth head was the ulmer edge ferrule and it had no similarity to anything rage had and now they did excactly what Seth did.he did not modify any thing rage had he modified a ulmer ferrule to accept rage blades .


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Fortyneck said:


> I'd like to see a spray that makes dog poop disappear. :noidea:


They already have this product available but for some strang reason it also does the samething to Hoyt's.jk


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

0nepin said:


> They already have this product available but for some strang reason it also does the samething to Hoyt's.jk


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

Fortyneck said:


> I'd like to see a spray that makes dog poop disappear. :noidea:











Awww man, they stole my idea... :BangHead:


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

0nepin said:


> Man thats weak bro.beside the foundation for Seth head was the ulmer edge ferrule and it had no similarity to anything rage had and now they did excactly what Seth did.he did not modify any thing rage had he modified a ulmer ferrule to accept rage blades .


Are you Seth's agent? I've never seen two guys bounce off each other so much.

Y'all are now The Twins


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

General RE LEE said:


> Are you Seth's agent? I've never seen two guys bounce off each other so much.
> 
> Y'all are now The Twins


This is nothing. The broadhead test thread was like 150 page circle jerk. Got to a point I felt like I needed a shower every time I viewed it.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

it also ended with guys like you just talking crap, thats what turned it in to 150 pages fyi


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

most of my threads/posts are to inform or ask questions, not talk **** like alot do on here


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

General RE LEE said:


> Are you Seth's agent? I've never seen two guys bounce off each other so much.
> 
> Y'all are now The Twins


Nope not his agent but like sethro ,timmyz7 ,and few other we are broadhead junkies and we like to bounce idea off each other.several of us have traded franken heads and sent each othe part for project heads.archer helping archer at it's best.


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## Liv4Nov (Feb 22, 2007)

sethro02 said:


> Ill stick with manly stuff not smelly stuff but thanks


He totally missed the joke.


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## lOnEwOlF110 (Dec 7, 2004)

scottiwad4 said:


> this is nothing. The broadhead test thread was like 150 page circle jerk. Got to a point i felt like i needed a shower every time i viewed it.


lmao


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

scottiwad4 said:


> This is nothing. The broadhead test thread was like 150 page circle jerk. Got to a point I felt like I needed a shower every time I viewed it.


The fact that you felt is was like a "circle jerk" and admittedly returned time and time again tells us what you like to see. I would hate to be your sticky keyboard after 150 pages and 150 showers.:mg::embara::toothy2:


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

TimmyZ7 said:


> The fact that you felt is was like a "circle jerk" and admittedly returned time and time again shows your character. I would hate to be your sticky keyboard after 150 pages and 150 showers.


Said one of the guys with the well conditioned hair


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

scottiwad4 said:


> Said one of the guys with the well conditioned hair


Lol. I was hoping you understood I was ball busting. Apparently not as much as you though, lol.


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

TimmyZ7 said:


> Lol. I was hoping you understood I was ball busting. Apparently not as much as you though, lol.


I got a chuckle out of it.


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

scottiwad4 said:


> I got a chuckle out of it.


Ohh boy, does that mean another shower? :toothy2:


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

timmyz7 said:


> the fact that you felt is was like a "circle jerk" and admittedly returned time and time again tells us what you like to see. I would hate to be your sticky keyboard after 150 pages and 150 showers.:mg::embara::toothy2:


lol


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

TimmyZ7 said:


> Ohh boy, does that mean another shower? :toothy2:


It's only page 5 ... Not even hand sanitizer.... Yet!


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## TimmyZ7 (Aug 11, 2010)

scottiwad4 said:


> It's only page 5 ... Not even hand sanitizer.... Yet!


Hand sanitizer after 5 pages of trying might burn a little, lol. 

I am done for the night so you guys take care. We each live to fight another day. In all honesty though I think many of us would get along just fine around a campfire we are just rough on each other in the forum. Good luck to you guys if your hunting winter bow, I know I am.


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

TimmyZ7 said:


> Hand sanitizer after 5 pages of trying might burn a little, lol.
> 
> I am done for the night so you guys take care. We each live to fight another day. In all honesty though I think many of us would get along just fine around a campfire we are just rough on each other in the forum. Good luck to you guys if your hunting winter bow, I know I am.


Some of the best hunting camps I've been to were ones that we spent hours around the campfire busting balls.


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

0nepin said:


> Man thats weak bro.beside the foundation for Seth head was the ulmer edge ferrule and it had no similarity to anything rage had and now they did excactly what Seth did.he did not modify any thing rage had he modified a ulmer ferrule to accept rage blades .


so he used Rage parts to create another broadhead and now he is upset because Rage created a similiar broadhead to what he was trying to make but they used their own parts. shame on Rage!


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

CamoCop said:


> so he used Rage parts to create another broadhead and now he is upset because Rage created a similiar broadhead to what he was trying to make but they used their own parts. shame on Rage!


Lolololo


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

CamoCop said:


> so he used Rage parts to create another broadhead and now he is upset because Rage created a similiar broadhead to what he was trying to make but they used their own parts. shame on Rage!


I don't think he's upset that they used rage parts. I think he's upset that they used a ferrule similar to the Ulmer. And of course he borrowed their design first.


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

scottiwad4 said:


> Some of the best hunting camps I've been to were ones that we spent hours around the campfire busting balls.


 I think you forgot the NO **** part.


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

crankn101 said:


> I think you forgot the NO **** part.


Nope. Said busting.. Not stroking , cupping, or fondling


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## Top Dog Rick (Aug 2, 2008)

James Vee said:


> I'd like the opposite of a larger cut. I'd rather see a 1.25-1.5" cut.


Not me , I want a 2 inch cut 4 blade !!!!


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

scottiwad4 said:


> Some of the best hunting camps I've been to were ones that we spent hours around the campfire busting balls.


Are you sure these were hunting camps and not Gay bars?Just wondering with some of your Comments,You seem to know alot about swinging on the other side...Put down the lotion and look for another thread if you need a shower everytime you view it...Oh and i am not joking...Grizz


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I love when guys talk **** but they cant back it up because their on a computer. You guys are probably five foot four, 120 lbs and live in your moms basement. You should also re read everything ive said. I machined and made my own. It wasnt heads from other companys. But it doesnt matter, you piece together what you want and make your own story.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Yea not sure how this thread has gayness in it and **** talking


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

At a minimum.......how silly is it to complain about anyone stealing an idea posted on an open forum?

Don't get me wrong......I know how you feel. I was just getting ready to release my version of the pocket fisherman and the other night I see a commercial on TV where they brought back the original. DRATS!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

I guess the difference between me and others is that if I dont like a thread I stay out of it


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## scottiwad4 (Nov 14, 2008)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> Are you sure these were hunting camps and not Gay bars?Just wondering with some of your Comments,You seem to know alot about swinging on the other side...Put down the lotion and look for another thread if you need a shower everytime you view it...Oh and i am not joking...Grizz


I can tell you aren't joking Grizz. This is about the funniest you've been. Your attempts at humor are nowhere near this funny


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## goathollow (Jun 18, 2008)

Sethro:

I got to see your commitment to broadhead design and testing first hand this summer so I have no qualms about coming to your defense. The Raging Ulmer is the first and only mechanical that has ever really tempted me to abandon a life long commitment to fixed blade heads. Ultimately, the Phathead won out, primarily because I'm too cheap to by 6 broadheads to make 3....but I digress.

I am certain that this kind of thing is frustrating and disheartening. First, now you have to come up with a different version or different design. Second, it starts to make you question the integrity of people you'd like to be friends with. And finally, you want to kick yourself in the backside for sharing the idea with the rest of the world. With that said, and for what ever its worth, I doubt that Rage simply stole your idea. First, they've known about the Ulmer since at least 2011 and maybe before then. Anyone with any sense would look at that design and realize that it was something special and want to figure out a way to take it up a notch. Second, even with their financial wherewithal, it would be hard to do the R&D, patent research, testing, marketing, packaging and most of the tooling to bring this broadhead to market in 6 or 7 months (if I recall you created the Raging Ulmer in June or July of 2012). Did Rage see the furor over your frankenhead and speed things up...possibly. But I'm doubtful even they could bring it to market so quickly. So, don't beat yourself up over this and don't lose faith in your fellow man. I believe this is more a coincidence than corporate espionage. You have some awesome broadhead ideas cooped up in your coconut, just dig up another and have at it....but keep it to your self or a few tight lipped friends.

By the way, if you want a mechanical broadhead skeptic to be a beta tester let me know. Don't forget, I'm going to Africa in May. If you have a couple prototypes in 125 grain ready by then I will give them a whirl on some plains game and bring back pictures as proof.


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

goathollow said:


> Sethro:
> 
> I got to see your commitment to broadhead design and testing first hand this summer so I have no qualms about coming to your defense. The Raging Ulmer is the first and only mechanical that has ever really tempted me to abandon a life long commitment to fixed blade heads. Ultimately, the Phathead won out, primarily because I'm too cheap to by 6 broadheads to make 3....but I digress.
> 
> ...


Well said. I couldn't say it any better.


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

One Pin is about to jump in any minute lol


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

scottiwad4 said:


> I can tell you aren't joking Grizz. This is about the funniest you've been. Your attempts at humor are nowhere near this funny


:set1_applaud:...


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

General RE LEE said:


> One Pin is about to jump in any minute lol


Utgrad ?.That Must be you....lol..Grizz


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

goathollow said:


> Sethro:
> 
> I got to see your commitment to broadhead design and testing first hand this summer so I have no qualms about coming to your defense. The Raging Ulmer is the first and only mechanical that has ever really tempted me to abandon a life long commitment to fixed blade heads. Ultimately, the Phathead won out, primarily because I'm too cheap to by 6 broadheads to make 3....but I digress.
> 
> ...


i also agree with this and will add that i was not trying to bash the OP in my previous comments. this was basically what i was trying to get at but without the fluff. i did say i hope he comes up with something and succeeds in his broadhead endeavours but seriously doubted Rage "stole" his idea.


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

HC Archery said:


> http://www.basspro.com/RedHead-Gator-Expandable-Broadheads-or-Replacement-Blades/product/10206975/
> *Similar to the ole' Gator???*


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## Chiro_Archer (Jun 6, 2011)

Just keep your nose to the grindstone bud, you will figure a way to re-route something to make the head your own, and when you do and need testers I would be happy to volunteer if and when you are looking ;-) , wish you the best of luck man and to a fresh start with this new year!!


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## Norwegian Woods (Apr 23, 2006)

0nepin said:


> Don't give up sethro if you can build your heads with .050 blades and a steel ferrul at 125gr with atleast a 2.5" cut you will sale more than you can make.


Totally agree.

I have been in a similar situation as you *Sethro*.
Some years ago I had a long discussion with an engineer representing a large European gun maker about some ideas to use on a gun.
He told me that my idea was not possible to do at all.
3-4 years later they come on the market with a gun where they had used my idea without any changes at all.
Sadly I was so stupid that I didn't patent my idea before I talked with them...

I guess I just have to be content and proud of it being my idea even if I don't get any credit or money from it.


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## KYchessie (Aug 23, 2006)

Looks completely different than the "Raging Ulmer" to me.

http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/2013/01/08/introducing-the-rage-hypodermic-broadhead/

I like the looks of it but I question the durability of the tip since it can't be replaced.


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## jacobh (Jun 7, 2009)

How long ago??? It's a rage design. Kinda seems like u stole their design ..... no?? I mean unless u came out with is 20 yrs ago. I mean its a 1 pc rage that's it and made of steel. Other then that they've change nothing from their original head





sethro02 said:


> Hypodermic..no phd required, especially when you take other peoples ideas. This head looks identical to one of my concepts which was posted on here a while back. ...moral of story, dont customize or make anything and put it on the internet especially when ur wanting to get in the business. Im sure ill get smartass remarks but yes I do know this crap happens. First you buy muzzy to get in fixed blade market then you take ideas from others on the net, your really pushing the innovative envelope. Yea yea every head is a knock off of a different head I know. ..just dont make anything and post it up on here. Keep ur frankenheads to yourselves!


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## davydtune (Apr 27, 2007)

That stinks man. I've seen the same thing with game calls, that's why I kept many of my designs to myself, for now anyhow :wink:




sethro02 said:


> I understand how heads are variations, hell their are so many gravedigger knock offs coming out is unreal. Id.be pissed if I were dale but its part of the business I guess. I wouldnt be that upset if I didnt have machine time and money wrapped up into the one I was designing


The gravediggers I believe are a bit of a copy themselves. Game Tracker (Carbon Express) had a head of that style out years ago with the only big difference being that it's expandable blades were straight and not curved.


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## 1Lee (Aug 8, 2012)

Man, the more I look and study these new Rage heads I really like them. Long time fixed blade user and looks like I am going to try the new Rage.


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## 1Lee (Aug 8, 2012)

jacobh said:


> How long ago??? It's a rage design. Kinda seems like u stole their design ..... no?? I mean unless u came out with is 20 yrs ago. I mean its a 1 pc rage that's it and made of steel. Other then that they've change nothing from their original head


I agree with the above I don't think Rage stole a thing.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

HC Archery said:


> View attachment 1559169
> View attachment 1559170


The gator work nothing like a rage!!!!


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## jacobh (Jun 7, 2009)

Exactly. One slides out (rage) and one pivots (Gator) Rage copied the other beat Mech. And that's the rocky mt. Snyper Why do u Think they bought them out??? I love rage heads but I speak the truth.



QUOTE=0nepin;1066218211]The gator work nothing like a rage!!!![/QUOTE]


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## Uncle Bucky (Oct 30, 2009)

Have you discussed any options with a lawyer year seth ? if not you better have, because you had discussed your head on here and that should be enough proof to date your idea. 

I'd seek legal advise to recourse you might have


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

The rage are alot closer to the snyper but the rage use an oring or shock coller at the rear for blades retention while the snyper use a rubber band aka gummiflitsche at the front of the blades for blades retention. ............................................QUOTE=jacobh;1066218881]Exactly. One slides out (rage) and one pivots (Gator) Rage copied the other beat Mech. And that's the rocky mt. Snyper Why do u Think they bought them out??? I love rage heads but I speak the truth.



QUOTE=0nepin;1066218211]The gator work nothing like a rage!!!![/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Ill 2nd onepin...gator blades dont slide...rage blades dont swing open, gator blades pivot...its different


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

Uncle bucky got ur pm, ill email u tonight


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## KYchessie (Aug 23, 2006)

IMO, the chisel tip that they came out with last year was a lot more similar to the "raging ulmer" than this newest head, if the "ru" is the frankenhead that you are talking about them ripping off. If you didn't watch the video that I posted, the hypodermic has a cut on contact type blade machined into the tip that doesn't show in those ad photos, not a replaceable chisel or trocar.

You had better get a lawyer that is well versed in patent infringement if you choose to go that route. You may find yourself on the other end of the situation after the patent searches have been done.


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## Uncle Bucky (Oct 30, 2009)

KYchessie said:


> IMO, the chisel tip that they came out with last year was a lot more similar to the "raging ulmer" than this newest head, if the "ru" is the frankenhead that you are talking about them ripping off. If you didn't watch the video that I posted, the hypodermic has a cut on contact type blade machined into the tip that doesn't show in those ad photos, not a replaceable chisel or trocar.
> 
> You had better get a lawyer that is well versed in patent infringement if you choose to go that route. You may find yourself on the other end of the situation after the patent searches have been done.


It will definately be a mess in court and the outcome usually ends in favor of the one with the deepest pockets unfortunately


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## 1Lee (Aug 8, 2012)

Uncle Bucky said:


> It will definately be a mess in court and the outcome usually ends in favor of the one with the deepest pockets unfortunately


Yep, and I bet ole Gary at Slick Trick would back Rage and donate a lil money for the cause after what all has been said about him around here.:mg:


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## Uncle Bucky (Oct 30, 2009)

Want to add I can understand the frustrations of sethro first hand

Prior to my MS days I was a competitive golfer. I too am also have the kind of mind that works non stop at thinking of ways to improve something , someway or how. 

I came up with and copyrighted a golf log book that allowed a golfer to keep track of his rounds shot by shot and determine what areas of his or her game were their strengths or weakness.

Sent it to Golf magazine to be reviewed in their "New Products" section. They loved it and ran a nice piece on it. I sold about 3000 books that summer and was looking forward to advertising in a few magazines and improve on sales.

Well that next spring Golf magazine came out with their version, instead of calling it the Golfers Diary Log as I did, they called it "The golfers log". They changed the size of the book and not much more. They gave it out to people for subscribing to their magazine. 

Called my lawyer and he wrote a letter and the letter that came back basically said " Hope your guy has deep pockets because we do".

My buddy told me sometimes thats the way it goes.


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## opie20wv (Dec 29, 2009)

Sethro - just wanted to drop you a line of encouragement and wish you well as you pursue future designs. I like your innovative thinking and desire to R&D and invent. I have the same aspiration but not the technical know how and tools at hand myself, but hope to get there one day in some sector of the archery industry if the light bulb fully illuminates someday  Also, I follow your real deal tests and want to pass THANKS for you taking the time and sharing that information - really neat stuff - regards, opie20wv


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## kdog23 (Jan 30, 2012)

mez said:


> Isn't a Frankenhead taking a head that is already being produced and making modifications to the head? Then who is copying who?


agreed plus if rage has a patent on the way the blades deploy then you were heading for a lawsuit anyway. you aught to keep looking for your opportunity but a frankenhead that is using a clear mechanics such as the rage deployment is not what will get you there anyway.

I wish you the best of luck. you will get there!


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## Ashadow315 (Mar 19, 2005)

Late the party but I feel your pain. I made post a couple years ago about broadhead companies see rating broadheads wrong. I posted the serrations should be up front to reduce surfa e fri toon on bone and the help saw through, while leaving a portion of the very rear of the blade a smooth straight edge to sweep the wound channel out in a precision surgical cut to promote bleeding. The following year NAP came out with a series of heads serrated exactly like that.


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