# BT release in bowhunter class



## MadArcher (Jun 25, 2003)

so tell me what you think should it be aloud or not in bowhunter class as long as your bow is set up for the class. should it matter about the release. now i dont care one way or the other but we have had a few not liking it in there class so i come to the good people here at archerytalk.


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## Taverner (May 4, 2005)

I use one all 3D season, I even hunt with mine. I wouldn't be able to shoot/hunt without one.


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## slowbowin12 (Apr 14, 2008)

I think it should be legal, its a bowhunter class and you can certainly hunt with a BT if you wanted to. I think the only ones that would oppose it cant shoot one and know most who shoot BT releases put up better scores. I personally dont care cuz' you still got to make the shot.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

I would say no BT releases. The perception is that even though these are entry level classes. The goal of these classes should be to bring in new shooters, not give the folks who should shoot advanced classes a place to mop up on those of us who truely shoot our hunting equipment. An earlier post referenced hunting with a BT release, maybe a few hunters use them. I'll bet it is less then 5% of all hunters use them for hunting (kinda sounds like a poll in the bowhunting forum?). One of the reasons I shoot HF (Hunter Fingers) is that I want to 3D shoot with my exact hunting setup (bow/rest/arrows/sight/stabilizer) and win or lose on my ability to shoot that equipment.

My 2 cents worth...


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Back tension is a shooting form not just a style of release.I shoot my 2-Shot release with a heavy spring using back tension. This is the same release I hunt with, in fact if you see me on a 3-d course or in a tree my equipment is identicle. I see no problems with this release in BH class.


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## rocket83 (Dec 9, 2007)

*release*

I have no problem with it either sometimes people will find any excuse to blame someone elses higher scores on the equipment


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Exactly rocket83...Higher scores come from good form not good equipment. Good form comes from lots of GOOD quality practice. I do understand where some people think that if they could just go buy the best bow, the best sight, the best arrows and a BT release the pros are using they would be unbeatable. Don't happen without the two things stated above.Not trying to offend anyone...Just my opinion.


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## Taverner (May 4, 2005)

I will add to my original post. I use my back tension becuase it does make me more accurate, and in truth my scores are higher. But those are not the main reasons why I do so.

Before I discovered back tension releases I actually stopped shooting/hunting for 5 seasons -- I was so froze up with trigger panic that I just couldn't execute a shot. Once I have switched over it has made bowhunting/3D shooting fun again. Thus the reason why I use it in the hunter division.

If a person is that concerned with what I am using as far as releases go -- then so be it, just don't take away my opportunity to enjoy the same activities as you do, because I'm not comfortable with a trigger/thumb release.

Jason


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## george myers (Dec 28, 2005)

jcs-bowhunter said:


> I would say no BT releases. The perception is that even though these are entry level classes. The goal of these classes should be to bring in new shooters, not give the folks who should shoot advanced classes a place to mop up on those of us who truely shoot our hunting equipment. An earlier post referenced hunting with a BT release, maybe a few hunters use them. I'll bet it is less then 5% of all hunters use them for hunting (kinda sounds like a poll in the bowhunting forum?). One of the reasons I shoot HF (Hunter Fingers) is that I want to 3D shoot with my exact hunting setup (bow/rest/arrows/sight/stabilizer) and win or lose on my ability to shoot that equipment.
> 
> My 2 cents worth...


if the no bt release rule were implemented it would only be right to require that shooters in that class wear camo clothing,have grease paint on their faces and absolutely no hip quivers.:wink:


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## huntindoc (Feb 8, 2006)

hrtlnd164 said:


> Exactly rocket83...Higher scores come from good form not good equipment. Good form comes from lots of GOOD quality practice. I do understand where some people think that if they could just go buy the best bow, the best sight, the best arrows and a BT release the pros are using they would be unbeatable. Don't happen without the two things stated above.Not trying to offend anyone...Just my opinion.



Exactly!

I have three different trigger releases and shoot all three with BT (at least most of the time). I also have an Evolution Plus that I use to teach me to shoot with BT. I just don't compete with it though I could as well as hunt with it.

hd


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## slowbowin12 (Apr 14, 2008)

george Myers said:


> if The No Bt Release Rule Were Implemented It Would Only Be Right To Require That Shooters In That Class Wear Camo Clothing,have Grease Paint On Their Faces And Absolutely No Hip Quivers.:wink:


+1


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

OK everyone, feels like I'm the odd man out on this one. My point is that this can discourage newbies from participating in an entry level class. I understand that with equipment being even, the better shooters will usually win. But the perception with guys that do not 3D shoot in organized shoots is that they have absolutely no chance against those shooting target equipment.

And no I don't wear grease paint on my face at 3d shoots. :wink:


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

How does what I shoot discourage a new shooter??? Thats a crazy way of thinking.
Not all hunter classes are entry level, look at IBO Advanced Hunter Class. You can shoot out to 40yds, use the same HC equipment but compete against other guys who might like pins but still want to shoot their hunter equipment.


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## Lien2 (Aug 4, 2005)

jcs-bowhunter said:


> I would say no BT releases. The perception is that even though these are entry level classes. The goal of these classes should be to bring in new shooters, not give the folks who should shoot advanced classes a place to mop up on those of us who truely shoot our hunting equipment. An earlier post referenced hunting with a BT release, maybe a few hunters use them. I'll bet it is less then 5% of all hunters use them for hunting (kinda sounds like a poll in the bowhunting forum?). One of the reasons I shoot HF (Hunter Fingers) is that I want to 3D shoot with my exact hunting setup (bow/rest/arrows/sight/stabilizer) and win or lose on my ability to shoot that equipment.
> 
> My 2 cents worth...



What? Since when is a bowhunter class an entry level class? There are MANY BHFS guys that can shoot circles around Freestyle guys. It's the form and person behind the bow, not some style of release.

Lien2


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## thunderbolt (Oct 11, 2002)

george myers said:


> if the no bt release rule were implemented it would only be right to require that shooters in that class wear camo clothing,have grease paint on their faces and absolutely no hip quivers.:wink:


Why No hip quivers? I use one for hunting to keep the arrows off the bow and better balanced. I'm definitely not the only one around here that does it that way!


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## huntelk (Jan 11, 2004)

I don't think (hope) these guys are talking about NFAA's BHFS class. I think we are talking about IBO and ASA bowhunter classes. I don't know of anyone that "hangs" with the BHFS guys that is "sandbagging" in the fore-mentioned novice classes.

My opinion on the topic is that if you are at a level at which you have mastered back-tension then you have no business walking all over the true novice shooters and are not fooling anyone but yourself. 

As for back tension, any style release can be shot using back tension, including finger shooters. Again for clarity I believe the intent of the poll is probably referring to what most people call back tension RELEASES (releases without a trigger). That being clarified, I think less than 1% of the archers use a triggerless release for hunting-otherwise Cabela's, Bass Pro and other big-box retailers would be selling them. I know a few top-level archers that use their BT releases to hunt with simply because they shoot 1000's and 1000's of arrows with it-even then it is not something I think is a good idea.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

What I'm trying to communicate is that I know a lot of bowhunters that will not shoot organized 3D because they are intimidated by several factures (bow failures, losing all their arrows, and generally being humiliated). And once you get them to one of these events they realize that they are shooting against guys with "target" equipment and their perception is they they could never be competitive in an "entry level" class. Therefore some will be OK with going down the path of uprading equipment and other will very quickly loose interest. Maybe it's just Michigan and our lousey economy, but I am finding fewer of my bowhuntering pals are interest in shooting either formal or informal 3Ds. Below is an excerpt from the IBO web page that I edited for space:

LEVEL THREE – ENTRY LEVEL ADULT CLASSES - Trophy Awards- Monetary Awards (if offered) at Random

HUNTER CLASS (HC) Blah, Blah....

FEMALE HUNTER CLASS (FHC) Blah, Blah....

HUNTER FINGERS (HF) Blah, Blah....

SENIOR HUNTER (SHC) Blah, Blah....

D. LEVEL FOUR - ADVANCED AMATEUR CLASSES - Eligible for Monetary awards, Shooter of the Year

ADVANCED HUNTER CLASS (AHC)


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## Po_Boy (Jun 3, 2006)

I have no problem with people using BT in hunter class. I have known some people to use a BT release while hunting and there are some new shooters I have seen that if they didn't use a hinge they would punch the heck out of a trigger, so if you took BT out of hunter class you would be disqualifying some hunters and newbies who started shooting with a hinge instead of a trigger. Besides, if someone is good enough to whip everyone with a hinge I doubt their scores will go down that much or at all if they switch to a thumb trigger.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

huntelk said:


> I don't think (hope) these guys are talking about NFAA's BHFS class. I think we are talking about IBO and ASA bowhunter classes. I don't know of anyone that "hangs" with the BHFS guys that is "sandbagging" in the fore-mentioned novice classes.
> 
> My opinion on the topic is that if you are at a level at which you have mastered back-tension then you have no business walking all over the true novice shooters and are not fooling anyone but yourself.
> 
> As for back tension, any style release can be shot using back tension, including finger shooters. Again for clarity I believe the intent of the poll is probably referring to what most people call back tension RELEASES (releases without a trigger). That being clarified, I think less than 1% of the archers use a triggerless release for hunting-otherwise Cabela's, Bass Pro and other big-box retailers would be selling them. I know a few top-level archers that use their BT releases to hunt with simply because they shoot 1000's and 1000's of arrows with it-even then it is not something I think is a good idea.


I have been shooting for many years with only Bowhunter class equipment. I have never used a lens or long stabilizer. I shoot the same equipment for hunting, 3-d and spots(with 2512 arrows for spots). I do use a hinge release for training and as I mentioned before I use my 2-Shot for all tourneys and hunting. I believe if you are willing to put the time and effort into learning to shoot any type of release using backtension you should still be able to shoot in the class that fits the rest of your equipment. I shoot the AHC class for IBO and I usually shoot most local shoots from the Comp stakes for the challenge and practice. I don't want to shoot target equipment but shouldn't be held out of the hunter class because I learned to shoot using BT.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Why is it important?? Are you going to tell me that if you can't use a bt release in the hunters classes that you couldn't use a thumb trigger or wrist strap in the Pro class?? The release is not what makes the shots, it's the shooter. I get tired of people saying that hunter classes are for the beginners and yet how long have they been shooting in it?? 5, 10, 20 years??

3D archery is a game. Just because they call it Hunter, or Bow Novice or what ever designations IBO uses dosen't mean they aren't shooting the same style targets on the same type lanes as the Pro's.


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## huntelk (Jan 11, 2004)

*ny new hunting set up*

I'm going to order a camo ultra elite, camo sure-loc sight and paint a Just Cuz in Realtree. I can get screw-in points and low-profile 4 inch vanes to shoot my CXL 250's.


And then compete in the Hunter novice class "cuz that's what I hunt with" (where is that "BS" meter when I need it?)

all it takes is a little camo to make it legal.....


come on guys:deadhorse do you really want a $10 trophy that bad?


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## crawdad375 (Mar 23, 2006)

I started shooting a BT because I fell apart with a trigger. I now hunt with a BT and if I happen to shoot a trigger or a thumb trigger I shoot them BT. Does this mean I have to pull a trigger instead of shooting them BT? What if I paint my BT camo, could I shoot it them.


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## Backlash (Feb 18, 2008)

The people I shoot with that shoot a back tension, I welcome to shoot with the BT. They have nothing but trouble with it. It gives me an advantage.


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## MadArcher (Jun 25, 2003)

Spoon13 said:


> Why is it important?? Are you going to tell me that if you can't use a bt release in the hunters classes that you couldn't use a thumb trigger or wrist strap in the Pro class?? The release is not what makes the shots, it's the shooter. I get tired of people saying that hunter classes are for the beginners and yet how long have they been shooting in it?? 5, 10, 20 years??
> 
> 3D archery is a game. Just because they call it Hunter, or Bow Novice or what ever designations IBO uses dosen't mean they aren't shooting the same style targets on the same type lanes as the Pro's.


well said.


madarcher


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## rocklock (Mar 13, 2007)

I don't really care. If you hunt with one or even if you don't go for it....


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## Josh_Putman (Jun 18, 2004)

It's really annoying to constantly hear excuses why someone doesn't win a competition (not just archery, either). If the people that feel the need to complain would put in a little practice and try to better themselves instead of saying someone else shouldn't be allowed to compete for whatever trivial reason, they might find themselves on the wining side every now and then. If you feel intimidated by someone that is better at something than you are, maybe you should try to learn the skills they have instead of whining about it like a little kid. For crying out loud, it's called competition! All this talk about leveling the playing field so someones feelings don't get hurt is ridiculous. This society is turning into a bunch of pansies. :sad:


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

MadArcher said:


> so tell me what you think should it be aloud or not in bowhunter class as long as your bow is set up for the class. should it matter about the release. now i don't care one way or the other but we have had a few not liking it in there class so i come to the good people here at archerytalk.



------------------------
Back tension is a method of useing a release for making a shot.
Now how certant releases got labeled as a back tension release, was for per motion and sales only.[Later 

Pm me i know of a release you need to try.


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## rocket83 (Dec 9, 2007)

*i agree*

I agree with the above post about the beginner part of hunter class. there is tons of talented shooters in the class most have been shooting a long time and some including myself bounce around from hunter and open alot just to shoot.why complain about the release part of it?I wonder if a target colored bow in hunter would be an advantage for me (sarcasm)haha


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## shouseman60 (Feb 20, 2006)

*yessir*



rocket83 said:


> I have no problem with it either sometimes people will find any excuse to blame someone elses higher scores on the equipment


for sure man, its just an excuse for guys who cant shoot worth a beans with one and has to have a good excuse for losing. i hunt and shoot only back tension, i cant shoot a trigger, or i get to punchy so i just decided to hunt with it. some say you shouldnt hunt with one cause what if you have to rush a shot?, well if you have to rush a shot at an animal then you shouldnt shoot it anyway... i guess some one is always pissed no matter what you do weather its killing big bucks or shootin foam..


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

So every one from here on out that shoots "Bowhunter Class" should be required to punch the crap out of their release......

People forget that although the class maybe called Hunter class or whatever....that it isn't HUNTING....it's TARGET ARCHEY


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## shouseman60 (Feb 20, 2006)

*yup*

well put..


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Back tension is a method of useing a release for making a shot.
Now how a certant releases got labeled as a back tension release, was for per motion and sales only.[Later


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## Avalon (Jul 23, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> So every one from here on out that shoots "Bowhunter Class" should be required to punch the crap out of their release......
> 
> People forget that although the class maybe called Hunter class or whatever....that it isn't HUNTING....it's TARGET ARCHEY



Spot on!! This is target archery!!!! 

I do believe learning to shoot back tension, whether it's a BT release or just using a trigger release, is an advantage. I also believe that learning to shoot an actual back tension release does help in learning how a "surprise" release actually should feel.
Every shooter should use whatever method they choose to avoid punching the trigger. Making the use of a certain release illegal would be foolish and trivial.

I also would like to echo the fact that the hunter class is not necesarily a entry level class. Their are many shooters shooting in this class because they like using that type of equipment.

If you don't believe me bring your fancy shmancy rig down to the lowly hunter class and me and some of my fellow ******** will introduce you to the wrong side of smackdown...


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

What style release you use should not influence what class you shoot. I've heard and seen pros use pretty much every style of release out there and shoot well with them. So putting a restriction on the release won't matter. As far as good shooters shooting in BH class and discouraging beginners, I don't feel beginners should be measuring themselves to the guys that have been playing this game for years. As a beginner be concerned with your score compared to your previous scores and thats it.
Its all just a game, if your jealous of others for shooting better then you only one thing to do, get better yourself. Its called competition if you don't like it shoot in your backyard by yourself


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## lakertaker40 (Feb 8, 2005)

Hit the nail on the head you can shoot it use it. 











Spoon13 said:


> Why is it important?? Are you going to tell me that if you can't use a bt release in the hunters classes that you couldn't use a thumb trigger or wrist strap in the Pro class?? The release is not what makes the shots, it's the shooter. I get tired of people saying that hunter classes are for the beginners and yet how long have they been shooting in it?? 5, 10, 20 years??
> 
> 3D archery is a game. Just because they call it Hunter, or Bow Novice or what ever designations IBO uses dosen't mean they aren't shooting the same style targets on the same type lanes as the Pro's.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> So every one from here on out that shoots "Bowhunter Class" should be required to punch the crap out of their release......
> 
> People forget that although the class maybe called Hunter class or whatever....that it isn't HUNTING....it's TARGET ARCHEY


Brown Hornet

Let me put a different twist on your points... 

Many of us started out shooting either formal or informal 3D shooting as an equipment tune up and confidence building exercise for preparing for an upcoming bowhunting season. Not as a year round target hobby. Most of the new 3D shooters come from the ranks of hunters and thats where IMO this hobby will either succeed or die. The demographics are already working against us as many youth and young adults have no interest in hunting or the shooting sports. I know many serious bowhunters (guys that typically kill a deer or two annually) that are intimidated by 3D shooting (I can't fully explain it, wish I could). I'm just saying we need to make this easier for newbies to participate.

I'll quit picking this scab now...


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## slowbowin12 (Apr 14, 2008)

Why not just require everyone to shoot backtension in tournaments? Then they couldnt wine about it and after some serious practice they could learn the proper way to shoot a bow and raise their own scores.:wink:


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## huntindoc (Feb 8, 2006)

jcs-bowhunter said:


> Brown Hornet
> 
> Let me put a different twist on your points...
> 
> ...


I understand and very much agree with your post. However, we need to realize that the class referred to is NOT an entry level class. Novice is the entry level class, Hunter is 40 yard max. with some darn good shooters. Novice is known distance both days and 30yard max....a real entry level class.
(this all refers to ASA)

hd


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## PSE ROGUE (Jan 19, 2008)

its fine with me i shoot one in bow novice


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## quick draw (Nov 23, 2007)

I've been going about it all wrong I didn't know I was out there just to kick but I thought I was out there to have a good time.I have target panic so I'm trying a few bt releases (sweat spot 2 and The HHA little pull wrist release).I'm far from being a good shot and happy with no goose eggs .


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## mocheese (Dec 19, 2003)

*Anyone reading this*

Needs to read Unk Bonds' thread about back tension in the General Forum. I don't use a "back tension release". However I do use back tension.


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## mocheese (Dec 19, 2003)

*Also*

If 30% don't care, why did you click on this thread. If I truly don't care I normally find another thread to read. Just curious. I also know several bowhunters who don't hunt with anything other than a bt release.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Again... Backtension is not a type of release it is a method of executing the release. It don't matter if you are shooting a caliper, handheld thumb trigger, or hinge style release; you can either trigger it on command or execute backtension and get the strong shot. If you learn the method ... USE IT.


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## gollie15 (Feb 25, 2003)

IBO scores from the !st two legs of the National Championships

Bedford 

419 25 
413 17 
411 17 
410 14 
408 16 
407 16 
407 15 
407 13 
406 16 
406 15 

Erie

430 30 
416 20 
414 22 
412 20 
410 16 
409 19 
409 18 
408 16 
407 17 
407 15

Entry Level????

The winner in Erie shot clean with 30 x's. That's hardly entry level shooting. 

I've never met a Bt release I didn't like:wink:


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

Excuse me, but why do you presume a novice ISN'T using BT? I've only been shooting the last two years. When I bought my bow, the pro at the shop (former Olympic team member) said that if I were to start off with a release, I should start with BT. Glad I took his advice. 

But anyhow, the first day I walked onto a 3D course, I was certainly a novice and I was shooting a BT. Would you make the first arrow I ever fling at a 3D target be in an advanced class just because I use BT??

Classes that allow mechanical releases don't need to be further broken down. Stop the madness.


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## MadArcher (Jun 25, 2003)

rudeman said:


> Excuse me, but why do you presume a novice ISN'T using BT? I've only been shooting the last two years. When I bought my bow, the pro at the shop (former Olympic team member) said that if I were to start off with a release, I should start with BT. Glad I took his advice.
> 
> But anyhow, the first day I walked onto a 3D course, I was certainly a novice and I was shooting a BT. Would you make the first arrow I ever fling at a 3D target be in an advanced class just because I use BT??
> 
> Classes that allow mechanical releases don't need to be further broken down. Stop the madness.


very well said. 


i am really surprised by the votes of no's on this poll. but when i opened this poll i was refuring to the type of release used not how you use it. i shot you BT release in bowhunter and love it and see alot if people doing the same. i will not shoot any other type of release.


madarcher


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

*I say let them shoot BT*

the problem is if u say no back tension then you have to define what a backtension release is. Some might consider my carter hunter a backtension and others might only consider a backtension a hinge style release. So to me it would just make more rules to inforce and some guy actually hunt wiht backtension anyway.


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

jcs-bowhunter said:


> OK everyone, feels like I'm the odd man out on this one. My point is that this can discourage newbies from participating in an entry level class. I understand that with equipment being even, the better shooters will usually win. But the perception with guys that do not 3D shoot in organized shoots is that they have absolutely no chance against those shooting target equipment.
> 
> And no I don't wear grease paint on my face at 3d shoots. :wink:


thats what the bowhunter novice class is for


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

jcs-bowhunter said:


> OK everyone, feels like I'm the odd man out on this one. My point is that this can discourage newbies from participating in an entry level class. I understand that with equipment being even, the better shooters will usually win. But the perception with guys that do not 3D shoot in organized shoots is that they have absolutely no chance against those shooting target equipment.
> 
> And no I don't wear grease paint on my face at 3d shoots. :wink:


I must admit I missed this one earlier.

Define target equipment. Last I checked even the Pro's still use a bow and arrows. I shoot an Apex 7 in black and camo. Does that mean I can't shoot an open class?? I shoot a Sweet Spot II so that means I can't shoot in Hunter class. Oh and by the way this is only my second year ever owning a bow, but I have finished as high as third in National competition, so I can't shoot novice classes either. Where am I supposed to shoot??

The problem is not the *perception*, it's with desire. Most of those folks are too lazy to go shoot and get better so they try to change the rules of their sandbox so nobody else can come in and play. People that have been shooting for their entire lives CAN be beat by newbies if the newbies want it bad enough. That is what makes a shooter out of someone who shoots.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*What???*

I can't believe some of the anti-BT comments I'm reading on here.

I've only been shooting since january and All I've ever used is a BT Release. And it took me 2 months to master it. (yea, I know, I'm a slow learner) And I am in no way a pro:tongue: Not even close.

What difference does it make what kind of release you are using?

I tried a wrist strap once and hated it. Why should BT Shooters be penalized?

Aren't there enough stupid rules already? Am I wrong?


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