# Wood arrow advantages



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

k im sure their has been a discussion about this before, but I want to start another hijacked thread lol, we all know the advantages of carbon...the things I want to hear are what are the advantages with wood vs carbon? its just a thought and so far my gold tip traditional onlys are amazing but im thinking about buying some wood arrows but need more intake before spending 75 bucks


----------



## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

None that I can see as far as shooting abilities, toughness, straightness. They do give the maker a sense of accomplishment and pride when finished and some like the idea of shooting a wooden arrow out of a traditional bow, especially longbows. I'd say the only advantage for me would be nostalgia.

The same guys that would not be caught dead shooting a metal handled ILF because it offends their sensibilities would gravitate towards wood.


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

reddogge said:


> None that I can see as far as shooting abilities, toughness, straightness. They do give the maker a sense of accomplishment and pride when finished and some like the idea of shooting a wooden arrow out of a traditional bow, especially longbows. I'd say the only advantage for me would be nostalgia.


yeah that's why I want some lol, and that's the only reason


----------



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

There's no arrow prettier than a well made wooden one to my eyes, but that's not really an advantage. It is easier to get the overall weight of the arrow up with wood, so if you are a heavy arrow guy that would be an advantage, but whether that advantage outweighs the negatives that Reddogge mentioned is a personal equation.

For me the allure of woodies is in making them. That said all I ever shoot these days are carbons.


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I like handling wood in my hands. I don't like handling aluminum or carbon. I like the girth and warmth of the wood. Since I nock my arrow to the string by holding it by the nock, I like the grasp and control I get with the type of nock that is used on a wooden arrow - the thinner nocks on the other styles are clumsy to me on this point. I also like the way the shot feels in my hand when the arrow leaves the bow.

The onus is always on me for accuracy, and I don't mind that wood has more batch variation in specs compared to the identical matching specs of other materials. I also estimate teaspoon and cup measurements when I cook, so I guess I'm not a stickler for certain details that others may find vital.

So, for all the wrong reasons, I prefer shooting wood. 

Since you ask, though, I certainly would recommend trying wood at least once in your life just to see what it feels like.


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

Thin Man said:


> I like handling wood in my hands. I don't like handling aluminum or carbon. I like the girth and warmth of the wood. Since I nock my arrow to the string by holding it by the nock, I like the grasp and control I get with the type of nock that is used on a wooden arrow - the thinner nocks on the other styles are clumsy to me on this point. I also like the way the shot feels in my hand when the arrow leaves the bow.
> 
> The onus is always on me for accuracy, and I don't mind that wood has more batch variation in specs compared to the identical matching specs of other materials. I also estimate teaspoon and cup measurements when I cook, so I guess I'm not a stickler for certain details that others may find vital.
> 
> ...


Thanks, good post 


Blace


----------



## graysquirrel (Jan 3, 2010)

They smell better, thats about it


----------



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Thin Man said:


> Since you ask, though, I certainly would recommend trying wood at least once in your life just to see what it feels like.


I heartily agree and will add that if you have any handy skills at all give making them a try, it's very rewarding.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> k im sure their has been a discussion about this before, but I want to start another hijacked thread lol, we all know the advantages of carbon...the things I want to hear are what are the advantages with wood vs carbon? its just a thought and so far my gold tip traditional onlys are amazing but im thinking about buying some wood arrows but need more intake before spending 75 bucks


See... I could help you here if I knew anything about carbon... I don't. I shoot ONLY wood and now it's hickory dowels... and them dang things are pretty much on indestructible in normal shooting... roving on the other hand, they do break, but the shots between chitcan.. are much extended compared to cedar. You have to work with dowels... cedar can be bought scaled, spined, and compressed, but to me aren't worth the price anymore as I've too many bows from 45 to 95 pounds. Nice thing about Hickory at 3/8, you can handle the heavy... but its a little much for lighter weights and you have to spend time with the shaft to bring them into spine. 

If you're just starting I would suggest you do two things with yourself... one is make or buy a spinetester. This is critical to your sanity and safety. Two, at the outset, I'd get some cedar arrows within the spine range of your bow... the further from center shot your bow, the more critical this becomes... otherwise, even over spined arrows can be manipulated with centershot arrangements to shoot well. Remember that you can always weaken an arrow... it's difficult to increase spine.

Good luck with your experiements.... Wood is the most satisfying of saturday afternoons.

Aloha.. :beer:


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

rattus58 said:


> See... I could help you here if I knew anything about carbon... I don't. I shoot ONLY wood and now it's hickory dowels... and them dang things are pretty much on indestructible in normal shooting... roving on the other hand, they do break, but the shots between chitcan.. are much extended compared to cedar. You have to work with dowels... cedar can be bought scaled, spined, and compressed, but to me aren't worth the price anymore as I've too many bows from 45 to 95 pounds. Nice thing about Hickory at 3/8, you can handle the heavy... but its a little much for lighter weights and you have to spend time with the shaft to bring them into spine.
> 
> If you're just starting I would suggest you do two things with yourself... one is make or buy a spinetester. This is critical to your sanity and safety. Two, at the outset, I'd get some cedar arrows within the spine range of your bow... the further from center shot your bow, the more critical this becomes... otherwise, even over spined arrows can be manipulated with centershot arrangements to shoot well. Remember that you can always weaken an arrow... it's difficult to increase spine.
> 
> ...


thanks, saw a website called Allwoodarrows. com looks like makes some good wood arrows? anyone ever use this guy?


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> thanks, saw a website called Allwoodarrows. com looks like makes some good wood arrows? anyone ever use this guy?


Brian Ferguson... I don't know why that name sounds so familiar. $10 an arrow is close to 10 times what it costs me dollar wise for an arrow. However, I would call this guy and talk to him and tell him your story. You are going to want to ultimately make your own arrows if you're going to be shooting wood, and there are all sorts of woods to experiment with.. but I'd start with cedar. Dang that name sounds soooo familiar.... Impossible shots.... Byron Ferguson... wonder if they are related...

It looks like he puts a lot into each arrow for you, so I'd talk to him and get a feel for what all the different choices mean to you. I'd still make a spine tester.. :grin:

Aloha.. :beer:


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

With many wood shaft materials running a little over three dollars per shaft, expense is mostly a non-issue, given that the feathers, nocks, and points are a wash amongst any other materials. 

If you buy reputable and pre-spined, you're fairly good to go for your first batch. The insanity begins once you start building them yourself and begin matching your arrows more carefully, since here you over-buy shafts to obtain a smaller number of mates per batch. As mentioned above, a spine tester becomes important (can be homemade for a couple of bucks if needed). I'm not a weigher (yet), but cheap digital scales get your weights matched up, as well. 

Some dealers sell pre-made wooden arrows by the sixes (I think 3Rivers does this), so that may be a good starting point for a minimal investment to test the waters. Just have them match up the wooden spine, length, and point weight to your existing carbon specs to get started.


----------



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

If you are looking to purchase wood arrows already made, I don't think you can do better than this guy...http://www.wildernesscustomarrows.com/


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

What I loved about wooden arrows was the fun of making them (mostly out of hardwood dowels). I eventually started to drift more towards "accuracy is king", and went to aluminum. They didn't last very long the way I shot, so I tried carbon. Consistent and (if footed) very tough for me. I just began spending so much time on the other aspects of archery that taking the time to build wooden arrows wasn't as much fun anymore. It was a lot of fun when I had the time to do them though.


----------



## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Wood arrows are the nicest to shoot, safer to work with (than carbons) and as greysquirrel has pointed out they smell good too lol!

The downside is they need a bit more work & care but you can be just as accurate & consistent as with other materials.


----------



## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

graysquirrel said:


> They smell better, thats about it


This plus they can be made to look better too..

No shaft made today looks better to me than a expertly crafted footed arrow..

For a traditional feel..hard to beat Gold Tips Traditional carbons..with a inch or two of a aluminum foot on the ends. .they are damn near indestructible...I have a dozen that are 3 years old and have taken more abuse than any shaft I have ever shot since 1963..I even used the same ones for a few months with my Hoyt Alphaburner. .and they are still going strong. .

Mac


----------



## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

MAC 11700 said:


> they can be made to look better too..


Yep.


----------



## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Advantages? None.

Yet a lot of what has already been said, such as by rattus and Thin Man is good stuff.

What Destroyer said is rather interesting. On the face of it I would disagree. Yet, experience would seem to indicate that he may have a point. In 2011 a shooter I know, competing in Longbow, took first in the NFAA 3D Nationals in Redding. (Distsances ranging from 4 to 101 yards)He did this shooting woodies. He did this against a field where every other Longbow shooter, claiming ignorance of the rules, was shooting either aluminum or carbon arrows. Apparently he could have had the other shooters disqualified. Instead though he got pretty much bent sideways and decided to win by shooting, not whining. So, given that we are shooting without sights, apparently it can be done. Woodies can be as accurate as the synthetics, this becomes even more apparent at the shorter distances. However I also know that it took this shooter near a decade for him to develop his wood arrow building skills and method to make it even remotely possible.

But with that being sed, if a shooter is new, go with the syntehtics. As kegan pointed out, building a GOOD woody becomes incredibly time consuming. Time probably better spent on actually shooting. Also the synthetics enable a new shooter to learn tuning, plus get clear cut feedback on their shooting. Those are things that are important later when dealing with woodies.


----------



## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

Wooden shafts are still required in the some competitions for the longbow and primitive classes. Many archers in those classes prefer it that way to maintain a connection with the ancient traditions. It also favors the fellow who is willing to make the effort to build fine match grade arrows. I consider that a part of what it takes to be a champion in those classes.

But the same factors apply in general sport and hunting archery.

'We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard.' - John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 1962

We choose to do it that way. - lbg


----------



## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

I've shot wood and aluminum for the last 37 years. Fooled with carbon a little bit. I shoot aluminum mostly. It is hard to beat a good quality wood arrow as far as forgiveness. Wood seems to me to be more forgiving if your release isn't exactly perfect.
But, aluminum is the most precise shaft material..shaft to shaft, and 1916s and 2016s tune really well to the poundage bows I shoot.


----------



## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

Weight might be an advantage depending how you look at things. I hate a huge gap and I can't get comfortable with a real high anchor. Long arrows, heavier arrows and even somewhat slower bows seem to be my friends at hunting distances.

I'd like to shoot wood just because, in theory, you could get some wood and make your own. But time is limited so I've been buying aluminum. I started with aluminum and never had any desire to fool with carbon, especially with what some of them cost.


----------



## Ghost Dancer (Sep 21, 2008)

graysquirrel said:


> They smell better, thats about it


Yup! It the only consolation with a broken cedar arrow. 

The cut ends also make a better wind chime.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

The only advantage is when you can make them completely from scratch, by that I mean lumber not shafts.

Otherwise they are just another shaft, less durable and just as expensive for a given quality.

-Grant


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

grantmac said:


> The only advantage is when you can make them completely from scratch, by that I mean lumber not shafts.
> 
> Otherwise they are just another shaft, less durable and just as expensive for a given quality.
> 
> -Grant


That certainly isn't accurate Grant.... on several aspects... price for one... durability??? Surely you jest... I'd be willing to put up most wood shafts against aluminum or carbon especially when the shooting gets "rough".


----------



## TheBigApple (Oct 9, 2013)

In short. Wood arrows give off more energy then carbon and aluminum. If you keep the bow draw weight constant like say a compound, ( this is a scenario) if you shot carbon you get speed, shoot aluminum you get mass, but if you shoot the wood you will most likely get more energy.


----------



## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Say what!?!?!?!


----------



## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

rattus58 said:


> I'd be willing to put up most wood shafts against aluminum or carbon especially when the shooting gets "rough".


:thumbs_up 

Newbies lol!





Bender said:


> Say what!?!?!?!


:wink:


----------



## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

Being organic they have psychic energy - from the spirit of the tree. Don't think physics; think magic. - lbg


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

rattus58 said:


> That certainly isn't accurate Grant.... on several aspects... price for one... durability??? Surely you jest... I'd be willing to put up most wood shafts against aluminum or carbon especially when the shooting gets "rough".


Buying a set of wood arrows which match a typical carbon in spine, weight and straightness will cost considerably more. Call up Elite arrows if you'd like a quote but last I checked it was over $90 for shafts alone.
Unless of course you build them from your own lumber and you are willing to sort through a hundred or so to get a matched dozen. We've had good luck with VG Fir, but it's not exactly cheap.

Grain for grain there is no wood that can stand-up to carbon for durability. Unless you want to compare an ultralight 600 carbon at 250gr to a hardwood dowel at 800gr, which isn't remotely apples to apples.

Personally I shoot the lightest shaft I can find, I solve the durability problem by not missing.

-Grant


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

grantmac said:


> Buying a set of wood arrows which match a typical carbon in spine, weight and straightness will cost considerably more. Call up Elite arrows if you'd like a quote but last I checked it was over $90 for shafts alone.
> Unless of course you build them from your own lumber and you are willing to sort through a hundred or so to get a matched dozen. We've had good luck with VG Fir, but it's not exactly cheap.
> 
> Grain for grain there is no wood that can stand-up to carbon for durability. Unless you want to compare an ultralight 600 carbon at 250gr to a hardwood dowel at 800gr, which isn't remotely apples to apples.
> ...


While I appreciate your subject knowledge, I've happened to have shot aluminum and one or two carbon arrows. There is no way you can say that they won't survive a roving experience such as I engage with hickory, Ramin and some of the other woods I've tried compared to carbon. $90 a dozen?????? I can buy 200 shafts for $100... so the idea of cost.... and I do make my own and time is involved, and it's not a 100 shafts to come to a dozen... it's more like a loss of a third. Dowels today are kiln dried and pretty straight and stable. If you like carbon, you should shoot carbon, or aluminum, but don't go around bragging that they will survive the rough compared to wood... that would be, in *my opinion* a fools argument.


----------



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

TheBigApple said:


> In short. Wood arrows give off more energy then carbon and aluminum. If you keep the bow draw weight constant like say a compound, ( this is a scenario) *if you shot carbon you get speed, shoot aluminum you get mass, but if you shoot the wood you will most likely get more energy.*


What does this mean?


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Easykeeper said:


> What does this mean?


It probably means that wood has more weight and more momentum over the long haul... :grin:


----------



## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

Well.. one advantage that I have found..
​My widow is flat out quieter when shooting wood arrows.


----------



## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

I believe a well crafted and properly spined wood arrow will fly almost as well as a carbon arrow. I also believe that same wood arrow is the quietest thing you will ever shoot. However, that being said, you will spend alot of time getting that proper wood arrow to tune to your bow. I struggle with this and occasionally get it right. I have fabricated a home made spine tester and I weigh my shafts. IMO, it is critical to closely match the shafts to weight and spine. I match them usually to within 5g of weight and 2# of spine. I will buy a few dozen raw shafts that are pretty closely matched already and then group them into more closely matched sets. Then the fun of tuning begins. There are many threads on that subject, but tuning wood is more difficult for me than carbon. Yet, i do it all anyway. The reward is worth the effort.


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

nostalgia


----------



## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

rattus58 said:


> That certainly isn't accurate Grant.... on several aspects... price for one... durability??? Surely you jest... I'd be willing to put up most wood shafts against aluminum or carbon especially when the shooting gets "rough".


I've shot some fantastic purple heart footed shafts and some zebra wood footed shafts..and while they were very durable and beautiful. .for durability alone. ..I'll go with what Grant said. .and give the nod to my footed GT Traditional carbon shafts. I've never shot any shaft that can take the abuse these can take and still remain fully functional. 

While I love the look and feel of a finely crafted wooden arrow. ..they can't hold a candle to a footed carbon shooting through wood or metal and are more susceptible to the elements as well. I will say this though. . For pure estetics..nothing compares to wood. .nothing does. .IMHO...

FWIW...I've got a dozen Gt Trads 5575 footed and these have been shot into and through more things and are still going strong..so price wise they are a great investment. .even though the initial cost is more than POC shafts alone. 

Shoot any wood shaft at 312 fps in rough conditions and see how long they hold up( if you dare to. ..lol...lol )....that's the versatility of carbons....you can shoot them safely at this speed and above. .so they can do it all. .and still look fairly good in the end..this I know from personal experience with mine. .

Mac. .


----------



## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

Biodegradable


----------



## cossack (May 11, 2011)

For me, I liken shooting wood arrows for the same reason I tie my own flies when fly fishing. I just adds something to the sport when using something that you have built yourself. Calling that an advantage would be subjective to individual perspective. If your looking for consistency resulting in better accuracy then no, wood is not as forgiving as carbon.


----------



## p508 (Mar 20, 2012)

I bought a dozen POC shafts six weeks ago thinking that making my own wood arrows might be an inexpensive way to get some expendable's for squirrels and rabbits. 
Dollarwise it makes sense but timewise forget it. A lot of steps involved. At the rate I'm going they might be ready by February and then I'll have invested so much effort in making them I'll probably treat them better than my carbons.


----------



## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

As I first learned with wood…I guess I would have to consider it somewhat of an advantage that it certainly has benefitted me in having a keener eye for what makes a quality arrow. It also was the proving ground for keeping an eye on straightness…which just happened to be of necessity when adding aluminums into the equation. The early Gamegetters were an inferior alloy to the XX75’s and needed straightening more often than woods (mostly with hunting and stump shooting in mind)…but it was the advent of the Autumn Orange shafts that came to the rescue.

For a few bucks more than the Gamegetters I was able to get in a lot more shooting…and was able to save my woods for something more special. Really, if I had my way, I’d have a couple of dozen wooden arrows for each of my hunting recurves, but I’d have to reduce the number of bows before seriously putting that plan into effect. Longbows is kinda a different story…more of a must-have wooden arrows scenario, to my thinking/preference.

Getting a fine set of wooden arrows can seem a bit complicated…but buying matched shafts/arrows is well worth the cost…and, if you’re making your own, it really favors getting a dozen shooters from a dozen shafts. (Personally, if I can find 2 dozen matching shafts for one of my bows …spine and physical weight…I’ll usually snap them up.) Back when my wooden arrow making extended to all of my friends, I would make up more than dozen for each order and separate the best 12, but always included 1 or 2 extras, which I would mark differently. I check for straightness through every step of the process…and those that fought me the most just didn’t belong with the rest.

Straightness is a maintenance issue that belongs to both aluminum and wood…and I’ll often advise people to start learning the process on aluminum first…because it’s easier to exceed the limits of wood than it is aluminum. I often keep one end of a wooden arrow/shaft close to my ear when straightening; there are sounds you don’t want to hear…and once a visible flaw appears, I will purposely break the arrow, so that it never gets shot.

But, back to what I started saying, there is the educational part of using wooden arrows (some of which extends to aluminum)…that I first learned out of necessity…and later grew into a capacity for better appreciating the makings of a quality arrow. As a have a fairly substantial stock of wood and aluminum, I have no more than a passing interest in carbon…but, if I were to go that route, I know I would not be happy matching the cheapest shaft on the market with producing a finished arrow to my liking. Sooo…working out the cost ratio, I’d end up having fewer arrows for the money…which pains me to even say the words.

The other upside of wood is its physical weigh properties, which can vary within a single species of wood, and all having the same spine weight rating…using different woods just increases the number of possibilities. Also, wood of the same species can yield different diameter shafts that have the same spine weight…and that’s without any alteration, such as compressing the wood. The fact is though, that the percentage of yield of small diameter/heavy spine weight shafts is low, and not particularly common to the market. It’s like gold…and, if I were in the position to have first grab at it, it could turn me into a hoarder…if I’m not there already.

Anyhow…discussing wooden arrows is always a pro’s and con’s thing…which kinda lacks balance because there are less people with a lengthy history of using them…and the increase of newer products lessens the probability of a rise in their popularity. Of course, durability is often brought into question…and the simple fact is that all arrows are subject to breakage, so everyone needs to decide what’s acceptable to them. Arrows also get lost…so being down an arrow, or a few, because of breakage and/or loss, rate about the same to me…and is nothing new, which is why I’ve always figured more arrows is the only answer to the problem.

But finishing on the breakage thing, back when my every day shooter was a 76# recurve, I came across some ash shafts that were suited to the bow. Actually, looking at the grain I thought they were garbage, but I went ahead with dipping, cresting, and fletching anyhow and figured I’d just bust them up real quick and see how they broke. It turned out, that as hard as I tried to destroy those arrows I couldn’t even break off a tip. When I shot them indoors, out of an 84# bow, they not only went through my target/backstop that had easily caught everything else I threw at it, but they went through the building’s walls and I had to go outside and pound them back in with a hammer. 

So, basically, I have no problem listening to other’s stories of how durable their arrows are…good for them…that was mine. I’m still buying and making more arrows…and I’m happy with that. Enjoy, Rick.


----------



## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

Sooner or later you will have to straighten wood arrows with a roller. Not easy to do when the arrows are fletched and the part that needs straightening is at the nock end. I really like my Gold tip traditionals. With 100 grain brass insert and 145 grain tips they fly extremely well out of my longbows. You can buy blemished shafts (cosmetic flaws) from Big Jims for less than $50/ doz when they have them in stock. Brass inserts are a bit pricey but worth every penny.


----------



## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

TheBigApple said:


> In short. Wood arrows give off more energy then carbon and aluminum. If you keep the bow draw weight constant like say a compound, ( this is a scenario) if you shot carbon you get speed, shoot aluminum you get mass, but if you shoot the wood you will most likely get more energy.


So a 530 grain wooden arrow has more energy than a 530 grain carbon arrow or a 530 grain aluminum arrow? Man, I'm glad I came here today so I could learn some new stuff.


----------



## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I agonize when I loose a carbon arrow and sulk over it for days after a 3-D shoot. I'd probably mourn one of my homemade woodies for months, years maybe. I'm not kidding either.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Chupacabras said:


> Sooner or later you will have to straighten wood arrows with a roller. Not easy to do when the arrows are fletched and the part that needs straightening is at the nock end. I really like my Gold tip traditionals. With 100 grain brass insert and 145 grain tips they fly extremely well out of my longbows. You can buy blemished shafts (cosmetic flaws) from Big Jims for less than $50/ doz when they have them in stock. Brass inserts are a bit pricey but worth every penny.


You can straighten an arrow with the end of an adjustable wrench, a box wrench, a heat source and a block of wood with a hole drilled through it.... aint a big deal... from what I can tell... as long as the point lines up with the nock.. it'll get there... :grin:


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

reddogge said:


> So a 530 grain wooden arrow has more energy than a 530 grain carbon arrow or a 530 grain aluminum arrow? Man, I'm glad I came here today so I could learn some new stuff.


Mathematically, no.


----------



## clover leaf (Mar 11, 2005)

After reading through this thread isnt this like a debate about blondes, brunettes and read heads. They all have there pros and cons and after trial and error we all will settle in on one in particular. And eventually we will begin to wonder if we made the right choice or if there is something out there that is better. We all will get frustrated eventually with our choice. We made switch only to realize we are no better off than we were before. 
We need to remember there is no perfect shaft. Obviously given the length of this thread this debate can go on forever. I have a favorite saynig I heard once "You never gain somethiNG wihtout giving somethig up". No truer statement can be said about aRrow shafting (and blondes, brunettes and read heads) So find a shaft that flies true from your bow weight, draw length and point weight combination, practice with that shaft and have fun.


----------



## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

clover leaf said:


> After reading through this thread isnt this like a debate about blondes, brunettes and read heads.


Yup...I left to go cut the grass...and now there's a couple of things up to comment on...but this aligns with what I was just thinking. If a person takes otherwise identical arrows...and finds more confidence in shooting the yellow ones than the red ones...what point needs to be made beyond what/how confidence takes form to that person. Surely, I wouldn't argue with him...I'd wish him well. (BTW...I know the guy, personally.) Rick.


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Well by now?...it's fairly obvious that woodies have few (if any) advantages over CF or Alum. shafts "performance wise"...I may tend to agree that they do shoot quieter but...they certainly don't if close attention is paid to proper tuning...so to me?....that makes the "they shoot quieter" a wash...but to me?...the area's they do shine in are as follows...in order...

1. "Aesthetics"...as there isn't a CF or alum shaft made that even comes close to the eye appeal of a well finished woody.

2. "Nostalgic Value"...and this is a biggy here...and nothing to be ashamed of....as any trad archer worth their quiver would wince at the thought of shooting anything other than wood shaft arrows off their primitive bows....especially when one takes into consideration that shaft materials such as CF and alum. are much harder than wood shafts and can actually damage some shot-off-the-hand selfbows and the likes...some even consider it near blasphemy to shoot anything other than wood shaft arrows off their Hill bows and D-longbows...and I myself didn't used to think or feel this way but I do now....however I will admit that I feel right at home shooting carbons off my hybrid R/D longbow but for some reason?...to me?...They are "and feel" like a totally different animal and not in the same class.

3. "Pride"...those who shoot wood arrows know going into it that the challenge factor just solidly got kicked up a notch...maybe two notches...especially those who construct their own...and even those who don't shoot wood arrows seem to know this...as I type this my heart is smiling recalling the one club 3D I went to last year doning my 21st Century longbow and a quiver full of 7 woodies...as about 50 archers show up at our club 3D's...of them?...maybe...."MAYBE"...(5) of us are shooting wheel-less bows...of them?...I was the only one with woodies in his quiver that day and far more than several other archers marveled at the fact that I was about to attempt to negotiate that 3D course shooting wood shaft arrows...with some referring to me as "The Guy With The Wood Arrows"...and I'm not certain why...but I will admit that each time I heard that reference?...I felt a strong sense of pride...sort of like the last Indian still carrying the torch...the bad news?...I lost one....the great news?...I only lost (1)! :laugh:

So...if you're in it to win it?..."wood shafts"....isn't the way to go...but if the quality of the overall experience is what you seek?...

then there's nothing quite like shooting a finely crafted and well tuned wood shaft arrow. 

All I got, Bill. :cool2:


----------



## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

Chupacabras said:


> Sooner or later you will have to straighten wood arrows with a roller. Not easy to do when the arrows are fletched and the part that needs straightening is at the nock end.


Hmmm...most times that I've offered comment on wooden arrow construction I've stated that I choose the straightest end for placing the nock...and for pretty much the same reason: it is both difficult to detect and straighten an arrow when the bend occurs under the fletching. And, I might add, it's also much easier to get fine lines in your cresting when using the straighter end. As I see it...the point in having discussions about wooden arrows (at least my part in entering them) should have some concern with helping people understand the subject...and...hopefully, offer a way to develop a greater level of skill. Rick.


----------



## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

Stone Bridge said:


> This is because they are essentially junk... For those of you who will argue this point please name for me the last major archery champion in Olympic, FITA, etc. who beat the best using wooden arrows?
> 
> I do not include Dewayne Martin's excellent wood arrow shooting at the IBOs several years ago because the IBO is not a world championship


No arguement with me...but...it seems the loser was shooting, at least, very similar equipment. If the loser shot different equipment, does it mean he was shooting junk? Somehow the logic escapes me because the level of performance is only being rated by what meaning someone cares to give to the event. Just can't see why Dewayne's "excellent" shooting comes up sub-par...when it was excellent. Guess I'm easily confused.  Rick.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

JINKSTER said:


> Well by now?...it's fairly obvious that woodies have few (if any) advantages over CF or Alum. shafts "performance wise"...I may tend to agree that they do shoot quieter but...they certainly don't if close attention is paid to proper tuning...so to me?....that makes the "they shoot quieter" a wash...but to me?...the area's they do shine in are as follows...in order...
> 
> 1. "Aesthetics"...as there isn't a CF or alum shaft made that even comes close to the eye appeal of a well finished woody.
> 
> ...


Quiet... knocking around on the shelf, I'm sticking with wood being quieter than aluminum. In flight the arrow with the least amount of airfoil will be quietest all else being equal... :grin:... in my opinions anyways... :grin:


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

p508, 

You can get yer woodies up and into a target within five days. 

This depends upon the poly dry-time, for sometimes a 12 hour cycle works, but often odd humidities and temperature may push the dry-time towards 24 hours. (I believe there are other finishes, such as gasket lacquer, that can be entirely finished with multiple coats in one day, cutting the timeline that follows down to a three-day procedure.)

Day 1: Inspect, cut, smooth, taper ends, 1st coat poly

Day 2: Morning poly coat ... Evening poly coat (Each session with poly takes about fifteen minutes)

Day 3: Morning poly coat ... Evening poly coat

Day 4: Glue nocks, wait a bit, fletch (three fletching jigs can get three arrows per hour - four hours for the dozen if you're setting a timer and not dozing off)

Day 5: Glue on tips and start shooting (you could have glued the tips on Day 4, either before or after the fletching, if you desired to shorten the process to four days and start shooting in the morning on Day 5 without doing any building at all)

The above is condensed to a minimum based upon the methods that I employ in building woodies, and is minus staining or painting the shaft, and cresting. It also assumes cooperative humidity and an optimum fletching jig count. But it does serve to illustrate how, under ideal conditions, you can have well-built and protectively finished wood arrows in the quiver ready to go in under a week. 

I'll cut and paste my full process for making my own arrows below. This is but one of many ways they can be successfully made. 

I hope it may be of some help. 

*Thin Man’s Personal Technique for Processing Wooden Arrows*
_(Begged, borrowed, and stolen from “Nothing New Under the Sun” Enterprises, Ltd.)_

... Inspect, straighten, taper nocks and tips
... Smooth with either 600 grit or 0000 steel wool (only time sandpaper might be used)
... Color (if desired) with Minwax Oil Stain, leather dye, or paint ... dry 24 hours
... 0000 wool the stained shaft or dye ... not the paint

Minwax Oil-Based Wipe-On Poly (very minimal smell and off-gas in room)

... Playtex kitchen gloves
... Double-fold small square of paper towel
... Wet with poly
... Coat shaft with ridiculously thin layer of poly
... Let dry 12-24 hours depending upon weather (You can tell it is dry when it feels a tad “crusty” or squeezes “hard”. If it’s tacky or squeezes “soft” – it ain’t dry!)
... A gentle, non-aggressive 0000 steel wool to barely smooth it even

_Sometimes the first coats of poly will “fight” with the stain and not seem to dry. If so, just aggressively 0000 the poly nearly off and begin again ... it will take sooner or later._

... Second coat same procedure

Crest if desired after second or third coat (I use acrylic paint)

... At least four more coats of poly ... same procedure for each.

_If you’ve crested, go very easy with the 0000 wool over the crested area for the first couple of coats._

You’ll know you are done when the finish looks “deep” and glassy

... Nocks with Duco cement
... Fletch with Duco cement ... 20-30 minutes in the clamp per feather

_All Duco dries overnight before shooting_

... Tips with Ferr-L-Tite hot melt glue.

*Addendum: Feather Gap Problems*

If you are getting gaps between the quill and the shaft after gluing, you can run your fingernail under the length of the quill after placing the feather into the clamp to pull it evenly back out of the clamp a bit, say 1/16" or so.

When you place the glued feather and clamp against the magnet, gently roll the feather onto the shaft from the nock end down to the tip end while applying pressure on multiple points against the jig and shaft to keep it even. The feather will sink back into the clamp, but this method seems to help the feather settle onto the shaft evenly to avoid the gaps that can occur if you have the feather all the way bottomed into the clamp from the start.

It’s like a self-adjusting buffer zone between the quill and shaft.

Do a dry-run with the feather several times to observe how it is mating to the shaft and also to observe if the quill is completely touching the shaft both fore and aft. You don't want the quill slightly off of the shaft due to an aggressive helical offset. You can offset the dickens out of the feather, but dry-test to see if you are out of bounds before you glue one down.


----------



## ArcherFletch (Jul 8, 2012)

wow Thin man i want some of those arrows you make!

for me, I am fascinated with speed shooting and trying to slap the next arrow on the riser, nock and shoot fast as possible. Carbons make a brittle rattling sound if the field point gets a tiny bit loose and they are hollow and stiff. a wood arrow is nice and soft and quieter. wood wins


----------



## Jeb-D. (Sep 21, 2011)

IMO, wood has the most ideal spine/weight ratio if your shooting a self bow or semi-american flat bow.


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

rattus58 said:


> Quiet... knocking around on the shelf, I'm sticking with wood being quieter than aluminum. In flight the arrow with the least amount of airfoil will be quietest all else being equal... :grin:... in my opinions anyways... :grin:


Ok....I'll conceed...but not over the interface with the bow...as with proper tuning and shelf silencing others can be just as quiet...but in the quiver?...hands down WOODIES!


----------



## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

rickstix said:


> No arguement with me...but...it seems the loser was shooting, at least, very similar equipment. If the loser shot different equipment, does it mean he was shooting junk? Somehow the logic escapes me because the level of performance is only being rated by what meaning someone cares to give to the event. Just can't see why Dewayne's "excellent" shooting comes up sub-par...when it was excellent. Guess I'm easily confused.  Rick.


Rick, I believe several years ago Dewayne won the IBO recurve division with his Black Widow recurve shooting wooden arrows against other men shooting carbon or aluminum. It was a very good show but more an indication of Dewayne's vastly superior talent over the field that he could handicap himself with wooden arrows and still beat the other shooters.

As stated before: The IBO is a small shoot not populated by many great shooters. So Dewayne could get away with such a stunt. You'll notice at large world-class archery events no wooden arrows would even be considered. You'd not even be able to qualify shooting wood so poorly do they compare to X10s and all the other great target arrows made of carbon and alloy.

I like making wood arrows and understand their appeal as artwork. But for good shooting (what I consider good shooting) they pretty much suck.


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

ArcherFletch, 

Nay, I must humbly admit that my wooden arrows are working-class and pedestrian. However, luck visits on rare occasion, presenting a beautiful ensemble of stained wood and complimentary cresting that will often fool a casual eye's inspection from some distance.

I handle my arrows exclusively by the nock, and fully understand your mention of the dreaded "clacking carbon conundrum" and wiggly points (aluminum offers a "thack" more than a "clack" to my ear). The ample, buxom girth of a woody nock offers a secure purchase from quiver to string (quite popular in the speed shooting crowd, I understand) and seems to perfectly match the warm and robust huskiness of the tree's gift upon which it resides.

The bonus is that the valley of the nock allows for an easy slip up to the nock locator on a less-than-perfect maneuver, whereas the tiny, clinging, and slightly argumentative carbon nocks must be exactingly placed - for they resist movement once 'pon the string and must be re-nocked in the event of a millimeter's error if errantly attended to during the cold, soulless handling of the emaciated, diminutive - and, dare I say it - Lilliputian cylinder that passes for an arrow shaft in these (allegedly) modern times. Although, hey ... + - .0015" on the straightness and + - 0.5 grains on the weight ain't bad ... I'll hand them that, for sure!

Go forth, speed shooter! Smell the cedar! Loose the glory! Stare upon the mark with eager eye and watch the arrow's determined path clear that target by a good two feet as you gnash your teeth and stomp the ground, cursing like a ...

Wait a minute. My pills ... where are my pills? Ah, that's better. Hmm. Now, where was I?

Later.


----------



## ArcherFletch (Jul 8, 2012)

Thin Man said:


> ArcherFletch,
> 
> I handle my arrows exclusively by the nock, and fully understand your mention of the dreaded "clacking carbon conundrum" and wiggly points (aluminum offers a "thack" more than a "clack" to my ear). The ample, buxom girth of a woody nock offers a secure purchase from quiver to string (quite popular in the speed shooting crowd, I understand) and seems to perfectly match the warm and robust huskiness of the tree's gift upon which it resides..


Good point, I have noticed that the wooden nocks are just way bigger... I can't stand the "pin nock" style of the target arrows, it may be aerodynamically superior but it is a royal pain to manage quickly.

Another reason you reminded me of, is for speed shooting some guys actually recommend shaving down bits of the shaft at the back (right in front of the nock) basically it creates a dual-notched cylinder shape that when you naturally grab the flat sides it orients the nock correctly. I've never tried this because I can usually get the position from the indexing bump, but I understand for a self-nock you don't have an indexer to help. The other reason I never tried it is because it seems like it would obviously weaken your arrow, it seems really dangerous.

BUT that's something you could just straight up never do with carbon, I mean you could add some material in places but you can't take it away.









edit: added a picture for clarity with some red pencil markups to show where the material is sanded off


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Well?...now that the house cleaning is done I can post this. :laugh:

I was out back enjoying the heck out of shooting my 11/32 doug fir woodies off the Falco this evening and checking in on this thread as it unfolded...and ya'll know me...always changing stuff...well?...I also went from 390gr 5/16ths cedars too 490gr 11/32 doug firs...and thought...ya know?...I haven't tried 3under with these heavier arrows...I wonder...so with my glove still on?...I tried it...and liked it...bow was still quiet but tails doing the occasional slight kick-down...so?...I moved the nock point up about 1/8"...grabbed my Jenkins 3under tab...and shazam....490gr woodies off a 32# D-longbow at 15yds...










but here's the thing...while I do have those particular 5 arrows weighing 485,491,491,492 & 494grs?...none of them have been spined...I just put the rift TDC and pointed forward up top and fletched'em up...granted...it's only 15yds....but...I'm not disappointed...and I kind of like that they really add an extra level of challenge to the game...and I have to be real particular about my execution...especially with this light weight 32# bow...I laugh to myself with the mantra of "Tickling them In There"...cause one slight pluck?....or mis-step in my form?...could send one of these puppies wildly corkscrewing it's way to the target and make a hard left just before getting there! :laugh:

But I like that...it keeps it fun and challenging yet I still retain the ability to laugh at myself when I screw up a shot....so I guess it sort of takes a different type of mentality that comes along with shooting woodies...cause if they are nothing else other than pleasing to the eyes and quiet to the ears?...they are definitely..."humbling". :laugh:

L8R, Bill. :cool2:


----------



## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

rickstix said:


> Hmmm...most times that I've offered comment on wooden arrow construction I've stated that I choose the straightest end for placing the nock...and for pretty much the same reason: it is both difficult to detect and straighten an arrow when the bend occurs under the fletching. And, I might add, it's also much easier to get fine lines in your cresting when using the straighter end. As I see it...the point in having discussions about wooden arrows (at least my part in entering them) should have some concern with helping people understand the subject...and...hopefully, offer a way to develop a greater level of skill. Rick.[/QUOT
> 
> The arrows I am talking about were straight BEFORE they were fletched. I am not that ignorant.


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

ArcherFletch,

Index bump ... I don't need no stinkin' index bump!

I gave up sweating the orientation of the feathers on the bow a while back when I realized that my flight was equally excellent (and, of course, equally poor!) no matter the orientation. I discovered this one day by grabbing a nock from the back quiver and growing weary of repositioning it my fingers to get the cock feather out. The wondrous flow of the arrow to the string was corrupted by this maneuver, somewhat as it would corrupt a ballet dancer's elegant balance whilst noting a wad of chewing gum appearing under the foot in the course of a delicate pas de deux during the Tchaikovsky. This annoying ruffling of my trad tutu irritated me tremendously, so I continued to shoot, tossing orientation caution to the wind for the moment. I also noticed that nothing changed, for better or worse, in my shooting. 

Now, I am all in favor of cock feather orientation and consistency. If it matters ... then it certainly does. For me, it seems not to matter, therefore I allow this calculated slop to trump form until it serves me further notice.


----------



## Ghost Dancer (Sep 21, 2008)

graysquirrel said:


> They smell better, thats about it


That's what I was going to say.


----------



## ArcherFletch (Jul 8, 2012)

Thin man, I totally agree with what you're saying, actually the indexing bump is just a way to detect orientation of string/nock valley alignment. The wooden shaved-down nocks don't have any "poka-yoka", there are 2 right answers (actually he 4-fletches anyways) . When trying to get them on really fast you have to get your alignment in the transition from quiver to riser, there's no time to align it at the string. So sometimes I use the indexing bump to tell me even if it's pointed towards the riser. 

speed shooting is dang fun, its like a ballet of movement through the whole process, kind of reminds me of rowing crew, it's a simple repetitive movement, but every motion needs to be really controlled, smooth, and strong.


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

ArcherFletch, 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o9RGnujlkI

If you haven't seen this already, here's a bit of bow ballet to tuck into yer tutu for inspiration.

What will this shooter look like in motion a decade from now? 

I'll wager that Cupid is already jealous.


----------



## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

Thin Man said:


> ArcherFletch,
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o9RGnujlkI
> 
> ...


Not impressive at all when you take into consideration the accuracy the same group produces.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Good thing they can shoot fast like that, eventually one of them will hit the mark:lol:


----------



## ArcherFletch (Jul 8, 2012)

kegan said:


> Good thing they can shoot fast like that, eventually one of them will hit the mark:lol:


lol that is so true, every time I try to shoot at like 20y+ I get that "miss the target by 2 feet" effect that Thin Man was talking about. Still I think this would make sense for the inevitable scenario where you find yourself against an army, it'd be cool to have a couple dozen of these guys/girls with you and just "make it rain" haha. 

You can use parts of the techniques (the fast nocking, not breaking the sight window, etc) and still shoot a bow conventionally. You still get more shots per session if you don't nock every arrow by grabbing and fiddling. it kind of amazes me that guys that have shot 10000s of arrows and put so much thought into their economy of motion and shot sequence, still look like a newbie when trying to get an arrow out, nock it, etc. sorry for the off topic though but yeah you guys are totally right about the lack of accuracy!


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

The results in the picture on Post #65 would be quite effective defensive archery at 10 yards had that target been a human body. It's similar to the same expectations and results with a handgun at an equal distance going for center-of-mass strikes with rapid shooting during an extremely fast encounter. Imagine a human torso's mass at the center of that target with broadheads launched into those same areas. I see neck, chest, gut, and one lower one off the the right that may either have grazed a kidney or simply have been that particular enemy's lucky day.

Pain, shock, blood, and confusion from them all in varying degree. This style of shooting is a war tactic, not gentleman's target archery.


----------



## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

rickstix said:


> Hmmm...most times that I've offered comment on wooden arrow construction I've stated that I choose the straightest end for placing the nock...and for pretty much the same reason: it is both difficult to detect and straighten an arrow when the bend occurs under the fletching. And, I might add, it's also much easier to get fine lines in your cresting when using the straighter end. As I see it...the point in having discussions about wooden arrows (at least my part in entering them) should have some concern with helping people understand the subject...and...hopefully, offer a way to develop a greater level of skill. Rick.





Chupacabras said:


> The arrows I am talking about were straight BEFORE they were fletched. I am not that ignorant.


I certainly wasn’t looking to insult your intelligence…or imply that you weren’t skilled in producing wooden arrows.

Over the years I have often found face to face discussions on building wooden arrows interesting and informative…not the pro’s/con’s offence/defence that almost inevitably happens on the internet. People build according to their own methods…using whatever tools and materials they chose…and life is good. 

My comments on construction were merely “my approach” to the subject, offered to whoever might wish to consider same. I would consider it a rarety to find a single source of material that details the many alternative approaches to achieving the same end...and you just can't be 100% in predicting how people translate what's being said. Enjoy, Rick.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Fletch, have you seen any of Howard Hill's videos? He shot pretty fast, and was pretty darn accurate too. No funny tecnique change ups either, just a stream lined and fluid shot. Seems more practical than their speed shooting?


----------



## ArcherFletch (Jul 8, 2012)

kegan said:


> Fletch, have you seen any of Howard Hill's videos? He shot pretty fast, and was pretty darn accurate too. No funny tecnique change ups either, just a stream lined and fluid shot. Seems more practical than their speed shooting?


I have only seen one video where he was at his house with some attractive ladies shooting... then he started shooting apples and things off of his friend's heads USING BROADHEADS... I was both impressed and terrified. I think it was "trick shots that didn't make it into robin hood" or something to that effect.

Thanks for the tip though, I'm going to go look for more videos tonight. I have a hard time finding exciting archery videos to watch online, most of them are of competitions (technically impressive but not really that exciting) or random people's camera-phone grabs that don't always show the target or the arrow flight. 

Thin Man, good point about the torso-sized target - I laugh when I read youtube comments like "well they must be only 30# bows, and short arrows, and she's not reaching full draw"... but my first thought was "I would not want to be standing in front of any of those arrows".


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

ArcherFletch said:


> I have only seen one video where he was at his house with some attractive ladies shooting... then he started shooting apples and things off of his friend's heads USING BROADHEADS... I was both impressed and terrified.


Yep...I've often said he was only a couple inches away from being remembered throughout history as "Howard Kill".

Then again?...weren't most of HH's flicks made as "previews" for the movie houses of that day?...and weren't they made right around the time of the great depression?...which then makes me wonder...

How many bodies they drug off the set before he finally hit the freaking apple! :laugh:

send the $5 to his family...

send the $5 to his family...

send the $5 to his family...

send the $5 to his family...

send the $5 to his family...

BINGO!...That's a TAKE! :laugh:


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I think Howard had more confidence than most of us combined:lol:

In the DVD "The Last Wilderness" there's the short "Hunting the Hard Way" where he unloads a full quiver into a sign post as quickly as he could. He's maybe 15 yards away and puts them all into what looks like a 7" by 5" section of post. He also shoots a mountain lion at the end, and gets two arrows into it pretty quickly.

3Rivers has four DVDs, and they're all very entertaining, even if they are a little "40's Hollywood".


----------



## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

Howard Hill kills thresher shark underwater with bow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGKIoZ5TuVY


----------



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Chupacabras said:


> Howard Hill kills thresher shark underwater with bow
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGKIoZ5TuVY


Not only does that appear to have been filmed in a pool it doesn't look like the shark is moving naturally. Drugged shark in a pool, I know...Hollywood...ukey:


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Methinks there was a LOT of hollywood in that shot, sharks just don't move like that.

Still be a cool shot, I wouldn't have thought a bow would be capable of shooting an arrow further than a few feet underwater with all the resistance the limbs would face.

-Grant


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

JINKSTER said:


> Yep...I've often said he was only a couple inches away from being remembered throughout history as "Howard Kill".
> 
> Then again?...weren't most of HH's flicks made as "previews" for the movie houses of that day?...and weren't they made right around the time of the great depression?...which then makes me wonder...
> 
> ...


I think you're closer to the truth on somethings here than you realize.... he killed a tethered elephant to be sure.... :grin:


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

rattus58 said:


> I think you're closer to the truth on somethings here than you realize.... he killed a tethered elephant to be sure.... :grin:


And the leopard, too.

I think most of his real hunts weren't on film...


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

kegan said:


> And the leopard, too.
> 
> I think most of his real hunts weren't on film...


I didn't know about the leopard. Wouldn't be my first choice of a means of promoting archery.. :grin:


----------



## laksmyth (Apr 13, 2015)

Hey ghostgoblin22,

I've started to find a good balance point between spine and weight for my wooden arrows, which I make with commonly found poplar dowels at Lowe's/Lumber stores. 
I shoot a 40# samick sage and with a homemade spine tester, I've been able to create some really good arrows that shoot pretty straight for target practice and stumping.

As for advantages, I don't see anything that jumps out at me when compared to my aluminums. But if you are shooting trad-style with a recurve or longbow think of it this way, 
there are many advantages to shooting with stabilizers, sights, releases etc, but shooting instinctively is somewhat more satfisfying as every miss is just as significant as a hit. 
The on-target shots are that much more of an accomplishment because you are relying on your skill primarily.

Wood arrows are the same way. You might make 12 arrows and only 6-8 of em are super reliable, but man, you made em from scratch so for me that's a great percentage. 
This is the "satisfaction" argument that folks have been talking about. As opposed, to with every aluminum/carbon arrow being dialed in by weight and spine, there is really
no challenge.

That said, if your life depended on it, or your hunting for the season is crucial to your survival, I'd definitely go for a more consistent type arrow shaft like alum or carbon,
but for the love of archery and if you like the craft of arrow making, I'd say stick to wood, you will enjoy the process and the final result. And when that arrow hits dead
center, man...no better feeling.

Laksmyth


----------



## Mac MD (Jun 17, 2015)

One advantage a wood arrow might have is cost. I can buy a Port Orford Cedar shaft for about $3. I can finish a shaft for about $3.47. I can fletch it and tip it from $3.74 to $6.06.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Mac MD said:


> One advantage a wood arrow might have is cost. I can buy a Port Orford Cedar shaft for about $3. I can finish a shaft for about $3.47. I can fletch it and tip it from $3.74 to $6.06.


I can finish a carbon for $5.50 and it'll last 3-4x as long.

-Grant


----------



## overbo (Feb 7, 2015)

Biggest advantage wood has over all other types of shaft materials is in a survival situation. They can be used as firewood!


----------



## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Mac MD said:


> One advantage a wood arrow might have is cost. I can buy a Port Orford Cedar shaft for about $3. I can finish a shaft for about $3.47. I can fletch it and tip it from $3.74 to $6.06.


If I got paid half of minimum wage for the time required to sort them, and factor in how many shafts I have to buy to get the ones that will actually work, they turn out far more expensive. Still beautiful, and fun to make, but certainly not cheap, assuming you want to maintain any kind of consistency.


----------



## bjaurelio (Apr 30, 2014)

It all depends on your chosen archery style. If you need a lightweight arrow to get max speed out of a 35# target bow, then carbon is your only choice. If going for primitive or old archery aesthetics then wood is your only option. For most archery needs of hunting, 3D, semi-competitive or non-competitive target, and fun any arrow material will suit your needs. For most archers, myself included, any reasonably spined/weighed arrow will do just fine without much noticeable performance differences for putting the arrow where you want. A good archer will put an arrow where he/she intends regardless of material type.

I prefer shooting wood, and it comes down to asthetics and enjoying the arrow building process. I like making things with my hands. Our archery range is a 30-40min drive away, even longer during the week dealing with beltway/I-95 traffic after work. That means we can really only make it out to the range on the weekend except for a rare evening. Building arrows doesn't really take away from shooting time. I buy a dozen hand spine/weight matched POC shafts from Kustom King for a lot less than a dozen carbons. They aren't going to be as well matched as carbon, but for my uses are close enough. Point weights have variance of several grains as well and can help balance the overall weight too.

My wife shoots carbons from her Samick recurve that's a model a couple steps above the Sage, and I shoot woodies from my Omega longbow. We both have on days and off days, but that's form issues from not getting to shoot as often as we would like. I wouldn't say that either of us has the more "accurate" setup, particularly our shooting mostly 15-30yd distances. If anything, I tend to average tighter groups even though she had some prior archery experience.


----------



## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

bjaurelio said:


> For most archers, myself included, any reasonably spined/weighed arrow will do just fine without much noticeable performance differences for putting the arrow where you want. A good archer will put an arrow where he/she intends regardless of material type.


Perhaps, depending on what you mean by reasonably spined and good archer.

I was competing with wood arrows and a recurve, with what I thought were some well matched arrows. They were 84# spine, 29.75" arrows with 125 gn points, on a 59# recurve. It sure seemed that they sometimes shot a bit more left than I was shooting, like 4" or so at 20 yards. I happened to have some arrows I had made for fun that were 79#, and tried those. What a freaking difference.

My point being, the 5# grouping that you are told that you get when you buy a set of arrows, in terms of spine consistency, is a LOT of variation once your form becomes reasonably consistent, and if you don't actually spine test and sort for yourself, chances are that you may not even be getting that close in tolerances.

What is more, if you're not shooting a consistent set of arrows, either with well matched woodies, or carbon, or aluminum, you might be a better shot that you realize, but also holding yourself back, because you can't get consistent feedback as to how your form affects the shot, particularly shooting shot after shot.



> I prefer shooting wood, and it comes down to asthetics and enjoying the arrow building process. I like making things with my hands.


That's what I really boils down to. It is a beautiful thing, and aesthetics are not something that should be dismissed. Even breaking a wood shaft, smelling it for the last time before it gets burned, tossed, salvaged for the point, whatever. It used to be a tree, we made it something else, with care, and it was unique, and temporary, and then it moves on back into the earth. It's really kind of cool. Almost inspired to build another set


----------



## bjaurelio (Apr 30, 2014)

BarneySlayer said:


> Perhaps, depending on what you mean by reasonably spined and good archer.
> 
> I was competing with wood arrows and a recurve, with what I thought were some well matched arrows. They were 84# spine, 29.75" arrows with 125 gn points, on a 59# recurve. It sure seemed that they sometimes shot a bit more left than I was shooting, like 4" or so at 20 yards. I happened to have some arrows I had made for fun that were 79#, and tried those. What a freaking difference.
> 
> ...


Perhaps it's a bigger difference than I realized. My understanding has been that with the fletching the differences of 5# spine variation would be within fractions of an inch down range. Here's a picture of a quick warm up group I shot not long ago from about 12yd away. There's only 3 because they were stacked tight enough that I was afraid of hitting one and having to lose an arrow. I know it's very short range, but I also suspect most would be happy with it at any distance.


----------

