# CHRISTmas



## isaacdahl (Feb 27, 2010)

Merry CHRISTmas people of Archery Talk.

Well said Clint


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

isaacdahl said:


> Merry CHRISTmas people of Archery Talk.
> 
> Well said Clint


thanks, but I'd rather thank God because that wasn't anhy of my words because if it were it wouldn't have been worded out great. But ya thanks, I just wanted to remind everyone of the true reson for the season.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, I'm not Christian but I like Christmas. Not that there's anyhting wrong with that, but Christ isn't really the reason for the season.

Biblical evidence suggest Christ was acutally born June-August. However, at the time of Christianity's spread across Europe it became very difficult for Christians to convert pagans over when they would have to give up their Winter festival (I don't remember what exactly it was about, but I believe something with the winter solstice- don't quote me). Anyway. Christians weren't about to let that stop the spread of their gospel, so they incorporated the celebration of Christ's birth into the season's celebrations. Many of the things now associated with Christmas, the tree, the yule log, etc. were all part of the pagan celebrations. 

Frankly, I agree though that more Christians should remember their lord this time of year. All this garbage with commercialism, selfishness, and downright indecency to your fellow man is ridiculous.


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## ChadLister (Jan 28, 2009)

I Personally Dont like to bring up the topic of religion, but i love christmas! Kool story bro!


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

well anyways this is the time of the year that we recognize Jesus' birth.
And have you read the story about the candy cane, ya it's good and where the Christmas tree came from?


kegan said:


> Well, I'm not Christian but I like Christmas. Not that there's anyhting wrong with that, but Christ isn't really the reason for the season.
> 
> Biblical evidence suggest Christ was acutally born June-August. However, at the time of Christianity's spread across Europe it became very difficult for Christians to convert pagans over when they would have to give up their Winter festival (I don't remember what exactly it was about, but I believe something with the winter solstice- don't quote me). Anyway. Christians weren't about to let that stop the spread of their gospel, so they incorporated the celebration of Christ's birth into the season's celebrations. Many of the things now associated with Christmas, the tree, the yule log, etc. were all part of the pagan celebrations.
> 
> Frankly, I agree though that more Christians should remember their lord this time of year. All this garbage with commercialism, selfishness, and downright indecency to your fellow man is ridiculous.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

ChadLister said:


> I Personally Dont like to bring up the topic of religion, but i love christmas! Kool story bro!


thanks but it's not a story, it's the real deal man, and there's proof. And besides, the Bible is the #1 selling book ever and is the oldest book and the only book that goes back so far in history and you don't hear songs about Harry Potter or anything like that, but you do about God.


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## bowboy09 (Feb 10, 2009)

merry Christmas.


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## PA3-DArcher4 (Nov 5, 2008)

exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks clint.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

From what I've read Christmas trees came from one of the pagan rituals of early Germanic celebrations. Been a few years so I've forgotten most of the details.

But for the record, there isn't really "proof". What _happened_ to Jesus, yes, but being the son of god or performing miracles there really isn't much. If there was actual undeniable evidence everyone would be Christian, right? I'm not trying to start a fight here. It's just that I sense you're starting to get a little aggressive about your beliefs, which means you're bordering on belittling others. It should be enough to clebrate Jesus for being a caring, compasionate person who spread the words of love and kindness- which is alot more than you can say about other historical figures regardless of whether he was the son of god or not. Like I said, I'm not Christian and even I celebrate Christmas.

To believe in Christ would be to believe in what he taught- love and kindness. That includes to others who don't beleive what you do, right?


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## muzzyman1212 (Mar 28, 2009)

Religion is a touchy subject for teenagers, I have learned a lot in world history this year!


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## corpralbarn (Jan 21, 2009)

I always thought CHRISTmas was the Catholics way of celebrating Jesus' birththrough a mass. hence the name Christmas(or if you seprate is Christ Mass)


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

no not everyone would be saved, because if that were so even Satan would be saved because he obviously believes in Jesus as well, meanings God created Hell originally for Satan and the 3rd of the angels that followed Satan, since he used to be an angel (this is according to the Bible) and then wanted to overpower God so God put him in Hell but he can go to and from the earth and what not. But for someone to be saved obviously they have to believe all that the Bible says about Jesus and that they know that they cannot get to Heaven without Him and that they ask forgiveness of theior sins and basically ask for Him to enter into their heart and have the desire to live for Him and to do in their life the will that He hasd for them to do.
Now not ecveryone that does accept Christ as their savior lives completely for Him but if someone does supposively accept Christ as their savior but doesn't seem to be even the slightest bit changed than that person probably isn't saved and just said a few words a friend told them and went on their way. And God's way is the easy way, it may not seem like it at first or maybe sometime in the future in life, but all things are for the good of those that love God and basically those that are Christians and in the end the reward is much much better than that of what the world has to offer.
If I sound like as if I'm doign some holier than thou stuff I'm not, I'm just trying to explain some stuff the best that I can because no person is better than the next, we are all created equal and God loves everybody.
Also have you ever read the Bible, even just one book of it, no normal person could have wrote any of the books which are in the Bible, definitely some inspiration from God.


kegan said:


> From what I've read Christmas trees came from one of the pagan rituals of early Germanic celebrations. Been a few years so I've forgotten most of the details.
> 
> But for the record, there isn't really "proof". What _happened_ to Jesus, yes, but being the son of god or performing miracles there really isn't much. If there was actual undeniable evidence everyone would be Christian, right? I'm not trying to start a fight here. It's just that I sense you're starting to get a little aggressive about your beliefs, which means you're bordering on belittling others. It should be enough to clebrate Jesus for being a caring, compasionate person who spread the words of love and kindness- which is alot more than you can say about other historical figures regardless of whether he was the son of god or not. Like I said, I'm not Christian and even I celebrate Christmas.
> 
> To believe in Christ would be to believe in what he taught- love and kindness. That includes to others who don't beleive what you do, right?


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

corpralbarn said:


> I always thought CHRISTmas was the Catholics way of celebrating Jesus' birththrough a mass. hence the name Christmas(or if you seprate is Christ Mass)


 no not that I'm aware of, I'm not catholic, cathoilics rarely even go by much in the Bible and belive that mary, the one that Jesus was born to, was of some sort of perfect person as of one like God but inreality she was just a normal person that God chose to give birth to His son and cathoilics have some strange rituals. I'm a baptists and we go by the Bible and it only and we have no strange or fancy rituals or anything like that.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

muzzyman1212 said:


> Religion is a touchy subject for teenagers, I have learned a lot in world history this year!


ya but it's an important thing to have, and actually being a Christian and going to church and what not should not be a religion to a person, but a relationship with God which is what it really is, at least to those Christians that have the string desire to serve God and to do what He desires for them to do in their life.


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## hunter 14 (Jan 19, 2010)

Ignition kid said:


> no not everyone would be saved, because if that were so even Satan would be saved because he obviously believes in Jesus as well, meanings God created Hell originally for Satan and the 3rd of the angels that followed Satan, since he used to be an angel (this is according to the Bible) and then wanted to overpower God so God put him in Hell but he can go to and from the earth and what not. But for someone to be saved obviously they have to believe all that the Bible says about Jesus and that they know that they cannot get to Heaven without Him and that they ask forgiveness of theior sins and basically ask for Him to enter into their heart and have the desire to live for Him and to do in their life the will that He hasd for them to do.
> Now not ecveryone that does accept Christ as their savior lives completely for Him but if someone does supposively accept Christ as their savior but doesn't seem to be even the slightest bit changed than that person probably isn't saved and just said a few words a friend told them and went on their way. And God's way is the easy way, it may not seem like it at first or maybe sometime in the future in life, but all things are for the good of those that love God and basically those that are Christians and in the end the reward is much much better than that of what the world has to offer.
> If I sound like as if I'm doign some holier than thou stuff I'm not, I'm just trying to explain some stuff the best that I can because no person is better than the next, we are all created equal and God loves everybody.
> Also have you ever read the Bible, even just one book of it, no normal person could have wrote any of the books which are in the Bible, definitely some inspiration from God.


Well said.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

hunter 14 said:


> Well said.


thanks, I'm glad it came out good because sometimes it gets pretty hard!


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Clint, Protestants came AFTER Catholics. Catholics follow the bible as well, if anything an older version. Likewise, the books of the bible _were_ written by men, whether they had god's influence over them or not. It's also a little hypocritical to stand there and say that just because you believe a certain aspect of a given religion (not even one of the older ones) you go to hell where other men who have lived honest lives go to hell just because they're Jewish, Muslim, or Buhdist. Christians, Jews, and Muslims all share the same god as well. Muslims even accept Jesus as a prophet of the lord- their lord. Jesus himself was a Jew.

You mentioned being home schooled. In the years to come I hope you expand your circle and speak with men and women devoted to different faiths. Because that's what these all are, faiths. There's no proof, no fact. You just believe- which is a wonderful thing. You should never lose that. It's just that there's more to the story than you've been taught and it might do you, and your faith, a service to learn about them.


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## huntergal111 (Aug 20, 2007)

Ignition kid said:


> thanks, I'm glad it came out good because sometimes it gets pretty hard!


yea you are doing better than I could have. I wanted to say something but as touchy (I guess you could say :/) of a subject as this is I didn't want to say something wrong and then have other people misunderstand or take it the wrong way or anything but you are doing a very nice job explaining  some people wont understand or even try to understand but I think you're doing well lol


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## bowboy09 (Feb 10, 2009)

Ignition kid said:


> Hey guys I am just wanting to post this thread to remind you all of what this holiday is truly about. And that's the birth of Jesus Christ when He, God's only son who is the Creator and maker of all things and knows the past, present , and future of everything and everyone and knows each one of us by name and knows our every though, action, just everything about us, and He came down to earth in the form of an innocent baby. And He was grown up, a completely innocent man, never sinned or though any bad though. But He was ridiculed, laughed at, cursed at, peole tried to kill Him, yet He never said or though anything bad at all towards them, and yet He loved them and loves us. And He was taken to Pilot (the ruler at that time) and wasn't found guilty, but everyone else cried "crucify Him, crucify Him", so they whipped him with a cat of 9 tails (a whip that had broken glass and hooks on it that tore flesh and ripped bones) and then they made Him a crown of throns and forced it into His skull. Then they made Him carry His own cross up to Calvary where he was then nailed in the wrists to the cross, and nailed through his feet to where if He were to take a breath, He would have to push on the nails that were through his feet to lift up to take a breath. And they still cursed at Him and mocked Him even more, yet He never did anything against them, then he was struck in the side by a spear, and eventually died for every one of you so that you can be saved and go to Heaven and to be with Him when you die.
> Just remember JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON!


well said


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

ya I know that and I hope to understand other beliefs so if I encounter someone of a different belief I can understand what they are talking about and relate to them to help explain to them what and why I believe in what I believe.


kegan said:


> Clint, Protestants came AFTER Catholics. Catholics follow the bible as well, if anything an older version. Likewise, the books of the bible _were_ written by men, whether they had god's influence over them or not. It's also a little hypocritical to stand there and say that just because you believe a certain aspect of a given religion (not even one of the older ones) you go to hell where other men who have lived honest lives go to hell just because they're Jewish, Muslim, or Buhdist. Christians, Jews, and Muslims all share the same god as well. Muslims even accept Jesus as a prophet of the lord- their lord. Jesus himself was a Jew.
> 
> You mentioned being home schooled. In the years to come I hope you expand your circle and speak with men and women devoted to different faiths. Because that's what these all are, faiths. There's no proof, no fact. You just believe- which is a wonderful thing. You should never lose that. It's just that there's more to the story than you've been taught and it might do you, and your faith, a service to learn about them.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

huntergal111 said:


> yea you are doing better than I could have. I wanted to say something but as touchy (I guess you could say :/) of a subject as this is I didn't want to say something wrong and then have other people misunderstand or take it the wrong way or anything but you are doing a very nice job explaining  some people wont understand or even try to understand but I think you're doing well lol


thanks and tatks bowboy09 too!


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

Oh and just to let everybody know that Jesus also didn't just die, He rose from the dead 3 days later after His death.
Clint


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## 22WVBOWHUNTER (Aug 5, 2010)

kegan said:


> Clint, Protestants came AFTER Catholics. Catholics follow the bible as well, if anything an older version. Likewise, the books of the bible _were_ written by men, whether they had god's influence over them or not. It's also a little hypocritical to stand there and say that just because you believe a certain aspect of a given religion (not even one of the older ones) you go to hell where other men who have lived honest lives go to hell just because they're Jewish, Muslim, or Buhdist. Christians, Jews, and Muslims all share the same god as well. Muslims even accept Jesus as a prophet of the lord- their lord. Jesus himself was a Jew.
> 
> You mentioned being home schooled. In the years to come I hope you expand your circle and speak with men and women devoted to different faiths. Because that's what these all are, faiths. There's no proof, no fact. You just believe- which is a wonderful thing. You should never lose that. It's just that there's more to the story than you've been taught and it might do you, and your faith, a service to learn about them.


Might as well save your breath pal. I beilieve in god as well but cnt stand when people try to force religion on others. HInt Hint


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## Wicked1Archery (Oct 2, 2010)

I know everyone celebrates Christmas in their own way and that's very cool, our family has a way of working in the reminder for us since our kids were born we always serve Birthday cake on Christmas Eve and the kids always tell us the story of Jesus birth, then they get to blow out the candles. Just our little reminder of Christ's birth and the kids look forward to that part of the evening every year knowing they will be opening up gifts the next day to carry on the tradition of giving gifts such as he received at his birth. That being said we also share in the fun of Santa and all the traditions that come with that. So thanks for reminding those who'd like to be reminded about the reason for the season. Wondering how others keep the reason for the season alive in their home? Any special traditions? Great thread...thanks for posting this up. Not debating with anyone who is a non believer as everyone has the right to believe in their own way..., I respect that as I'm sure you respect those of us that are believers. Merry Christmas!


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## bloodstripe23 (Oct 3, 2010)

To each its own, but merry Christmas to all.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

Ya we too read the Christmas story out of Luke which is the book in the Bible that has the story of the shepherds and the angels as well and we read it on Christmas morning before we open presents.
Merry Christmas
Clint


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## Questie (Feb 7, 2010)

kegan said:


> Clint, Protestants came AFTER Catholics. Catholics follow the bible as well, if anything an older version. Likewise, the books of the bible _were_ written by men, whether they had god's influence over them or not. It's also a little hypocritical to stand there and say that just because you believe a certain aspect of a given religion (not even one of the older ones) you go to hell where other men who have lived honest lives go to hell just because they're Jewish, Muslim, or Buhdist. Christians, Jews, and Muslims all share the same god as well. Muslims even accept Jesus as a prophet of the lord- their lord. Jesus himself was a Jew.
> 
> You mentioned being home schooled. In the years to come I hope you expand your circle and speak with men and women devoted to different faiths. Because that's what these all are, faiths. There's no proof, no fact. You just believe- which is a wonderful thing. You should never lose that. It's just that there's more to the story than you've been taught and it might do you, and your faith, a service to learn about them.


Clint, I agree with Kegan, you are getting a little out of hand. Nonetheless, I completely agree that throughout the Holiday season, there is so much "me me me" that we forget to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Most Catholics I know are wonderful people. Though they lean heavily on tradition, the Good Lord when He came to earth said that we shall know them by their fruits. In recent years I have seen Catholics bear some awesome fruits. Don't hate on them too much, Clint.

And yes, the original name of Christmas was Christ Mass. The Catholics invented it, and it overshowed the pagan Winter Solstice. I have done some research on the subject.

However, Kegan, your statement that all religions share the same god is common, but erroneous. First of all, sorry, I can tell you really haven't done much research on religion, because Buddhists don't believe in God. But the God of Islam is not the same as the God of Christianity. The main difference is that Allah hates sinners, whilst Jehovah loves sinners. In the Quran, it is stated it is okay to lie to an infidel. In the Bible, it says Thou shalt not bear false witness PERIOD. Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet. But they believe His (they call him Isa) words were corrupted by the Christians. But honestly, the Taliban in the Middle East are much, much more well versed in the Quran than either of us are. If they thought they had the same god as us, would they be trying to kill us
Yes, Jesus was a Jew, denying that would be rejecting not only Biblical claims, but historical claims. But what so often people forget is that Judiasm is not only a religion but a race. Jesus certainly knew He was the Son of God. He testified that to His followers and to Pontius Pilate. Saying Jesus believed in the religion Judiasm is completely untrue.
"People who have lived honest lives", you say. Well, truth is, honest lives is a relative term. EVERYONE has done something wrong. "It's only human," people say, and that is partially right. It's certainly not an excuse, but human nature is inherantly bad. You look at Hitler and Stalin and tell me otherwise. It is so much easier to commit evil than good. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. One sin is enough, and our "honest lives" cannot save ourselves.
I hope this clears up some stuff for you about my religion and other religions


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Questie- Nope, Budhists don't believe in god, but when I said same god I meant Islam, Christianity/Catholicism, and Judiasm. They all branched from the same basic start- the same god. How they worship and what they believe is different, but it is the same god. Likewise, you must discount Islamic extremeists. They're an oddity. Muslims believe CHristians and Jews are people of the same book and therefore should be protected. Look into Muslim Spain, can't remember the years. 

Honesty may be a relative term, but being that I don't bother with a personal religion it's pretty easy to see, even without god giving guidelines, when people are wrong and when they're not. Lie to your kids that Santa brought presents: not bad. Lie about beating your wife: bad. You don't need to sit around and ponder if things are right or wrong. We've all been socialized to know the rules, so by the time you're conscious and capable of coherant thought, you'll be able to go with your gut and make a split second decision: is this person doing wrong? 

(_*The following is not religious or about religion but is simply my opinions on people and morality*_) People are not morally superior to anything, regardless of how adamant people and religions might be about their superiorty. Just animals with an arrogance complex. So if you life your life without trying to do so at everyone else's expense, or actually try to lend a hand to others, as far as I'm concnerned you're a good person. Now if you're hateful, arrogant, selfish, greedy, or malicious... whether there's a Hell or not I've got no use for you or your behavior. Life's too short to tolerate that kind of behavior, and I'd rather make life worth living than put all my eggs into the afterlife basket.


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

Clint, being a fellow christian and pastors son, I completely agree with your views. Despite what others are saying I know your not trying to be pushy your just expressing your opinions and whenever your opinions are about Jesus other non-Christians take it as you are being "pushy" because of there immaturity in the Christian "way of life". Being a Christian is just a "religion" its a way of life. 

All of us being hunters its hard for me to see how someone could see God's beautiful creation and not believe that He created it. It didnt come about by a "big bang". He created the earth and us people and then saw we were corrupt and evil so He sent his son to save us from eternal damnation. 

Yes, biblically, Jesus was not born on December 25th, he was born in the early summer months. I cant sit here and tell you all about how the actual Christmas holiday came about, but I can tell you ALL about Christianity. So maybe its not the actual "reason for the season" but to me and other Christians, it is. Jesus was sent to save us from spending eternity in Hell. He died on the cross, was buried in a tomb, and arose 3 days later. After a short while(forgot the 3 of days) Jesus then ascended into heaven to be with his father forever, until we get there. When he ascended the Holy Spirit (talked about in Act 2 and MANY other places) was left on the earth for us. 

God Bless you all and Merry CHRISTmas


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

exactly,

and guys I post these threads around Christ centered (should be to me) holidays not because I'm trying to force religion and saying that your a filthy sinner or anything but because it is what I want to do and care about a whole lot, much much more than anything else, because for me and my belief, where yo are going when you die is very important and what you believe in to me is extremely important. Ya I know we are mostly all guys here and everything but thayt by no way means that you can't open up and share thoughts although it may saound "wierd" or "fruity" but to me it takes a lot for me to talk about feelings and what not and this kind of stuff I'm talking about is extremelky important to me just like some things may be very important to you. I just hope that you all understand that I'm not doing this to make you mad or something but just because I care I guess is what I could say.

God Bless,
Clint


Dwill said:


> Clint, being a fellow christian and pastors son, I completely agree with your views. Despite what others are saying I know your not trying to be pushy your just expressing your opinions and whenever your opinions are about Jesus other non-Christians take it as you are being "pushy" because of there immaturity in the Christian "way of life". Being a Christian is just a "religion" its a way of life.
> 
> All of us being hunters its hard for me to see how someone could see God's beautiful creation and not believe that He created it. It didnt come about by a "big bang". He created the earth and us people and then saw we were corrupt and evil so He sent his son to save us from eternal damnation.
> 
> ...


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Clint, no one believes you're being weird or fruity and you've been rather respectful this whole time. I fully understand that it's simply important to you and I see no difference between wanting to talk about your faith and any one of us wanting to talk about archery.

But Dwill you crossed several lines. People get offended when folks make claims just like yours. That it was the Christian god that created the world and universe and the Big Bang never happened or that the idea is absurd. Making claims that its others' immaturity that leads to being offended when you sit there and make such blatantly rude and biased statements is simply uncalled for and without respect. Remember respect is earned, not given, and if you want to be shown respect you should do so in kind.

I'm not Christian or Jewish or Muslim. I'm not Budhists or even Atheist. I believe the universe is what it is, a massive force that constantly works towards balance. I look upon the beuaty of nature and see what the world truly is, a force, a being, an entity in an of itself. I appreciate the earth and creatures that inhabit this world for it is them that makes it what it is. If there's a god it did nothing more than push that first object into motion creating an unstoppable series of events. To study nature is to see how nature works, not realize what a clever builder god was. Evolution has been proven, and though a divine being may have put it all into action at the start, it is a part of our world that pushes everything towards the same end: perfect adaptation to an environement or extinction. It's that perfect balance. Beleive what you want but don't try to take some moral high ground here and decry my beliefs.


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## hunter 14 (Jan 19, 2010)

kegan said:


> Clint, no one believes you're being weird or fruity and you've been rather respectful this whole time. I fully understand that it's simply important to you and I see no difference between wanting to talk about your faith and any one of us wanting to talk about archery.
> 
> But Dwill you crossed several lines. People get offended when folks make claims just like yours. That it was the Christian god that created the world and universe and the Big Bang never happened or that the idea is absurd. Making claims that its others' immaturity that leads to being offended when you sit there and make such blatantly rude and biased statements is simply uncalled for and without respect. Remember respect is earned, not given, and if you want to be shown respect you should do so in kind.
> 
> I'm not Christian or Jewish or Muslim. I'm not Budhists or even Atheist. I believe the universe is what it is, a massive force that constantly works towards balance. I look upon the beuaty of nature and see what the world truly is, a force, a being, an entity in an of itself. I appreciate the earth and creatures that inhabit this world for it is them that makes it what it is. If there's a god it did nothing more than push that first object into motion creating an unstoppable series of events. To study nature is to see how nature works, not realize what a clever builder god was. *Evolution has been* *proven*, and though a divine being may have put it all into action at the start, it is a part of our world that pushes everything towards the same end: perfect adaptation to an environement or extinction. It's that perfect balance. Beleive what you want but don't try to take some moral high ground here and decry my beliefs.


I have never heard of anything that would prove that evolution happoned or is happining. I have been doing chemistry in school this year and sientists have found that if the charge in a atom is out of balince by .00000001% every atom in are bodies would explode. I just can not belive that things evolved into what they are when it takes such a little mistake to distroy everything. I am Christian and I am not trying to offend anyone this is just the conclushion I have come to based on the evedence in the world.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

hunter 14 said:


> I have never heard of anything that would prove that evolution happoned or is happining. I have been doing chemistry in school this year and sientists have found that if the charge in a atom is out of balince by .00000001% every atom in are bodies would explode. I just can not belive that things evolved into what they are when it takes such a little mistake to distroy everything. I am Christian and I am not trying to offend anyone this is just the conclushion I have come to based on the evedence in the world.


I agree with you that the things that are of this world and universe to me seem far too complex to just have happened on accident, and I have found things that prove evolution is false but Kegan I know that you have your beliefs and that I have mine, I'm just simply doing my part in what I feel that I need to do according to what I believe and how I live it.
Clint


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Folks when I talk about evolution I'm not talking about about people coming from monkeys. I'm talking about selective breeding for specific changes influencing the over-all population. Like Darwin's finches. Atom's don't change, but behaviors and certain traits can become more prevelant. Clearly something started everything and there's no proof of evolution there (very well could have been divine intervention- no one knows for sure), but what we have today is obviously not what we had before.

A few examples. Folks who raised foxes bred, for several generations, only the most mild and tame foxes they had. After several generations they became more and more mild, to the point where they would allow people to touch them and even barked. This could have been what led to the first domestic dogs, meek wolves or what have you that followed the first humans around and bred amongst themselves. Polar bears actually evolved from Grizzlies that were more adept at surviving the cold climates. Only the strong bred and prdocued offspring, carrying those traits which, over a longggggggg time, led to what we have today. And if they aren't able to adapt to the current melting situation, they'll die out because those traits are no longer favorable.

I'm not talking monkey's to men. Much more everyday use of evolution here. Besides, if you don't learn it in school it might be because someone complained and made a fuss. Schools aren't about to get sued out the rear over this stuff anymore, no one seems to be able to afford it.


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## skulzhead (Aug 4, 2010)

merry christmas


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## huntergal111 (Aug 20, 2007)

Questie said:


> Clint, I agree with Kegan, you are getting a little out of hand.


I really don't think he is getting 'out of hand' at all. he is being very respectful about this and he is not telling everybody else how wrong they are and how stupid everybody else's theorys are. he is simply trying to show his point of veiw and show others what he believes in and that takes guts. and when everybody who is not a Christian and does not agree just keeps bashing what Christians believe (and say that evolution has been proven (which I might add, it has not been 100% proven and will probably never be proven because it didn't even happen)) I say that is getting out of hand. just chill out and listen. if you don't believe it then that's fine but it doesn't mean you have to cut down and bash what we believe is true and the only way.
we don't come up on your posts and say that you have no idea what you are talking about and just to give up because the way you are living is wrong or what you believe is wrong or whatever.
come on, show a little respect and maturity and get over yourselves enough to be able to listen and learn and not just think that you have all the answers.

I'm sorry if I sound mean or anything like that it just bugs me when people talk the talk but can't walk the walk. and I mean to show no disrespect to anybody at all I just think that all the bashing of Christianity is not something that has to be done.

I hope you guys can understand what we are talking about here and come out of your little bubble long enough to understand that ya'll don't know every single thing there is to know and that there's room to learn other things.
We definitely don't think that we know everything and that everybody else is wrong it just pushes my buttons when you want us to listen to what you think without listening to what we think.
I think I already said that so I don't know what else I can say so I"ll sign off, for now  lol



22WVBOWHUNTER said:


> Might as well save your breath pal. I believe in god as well but cnt stand when people try to force religion on others. HInt Hint


OK. he isn't trying to PUSH religion on others. I don't see how you think that because in no way has he been trying to force anybody to believe anything he is not shoving it down your throat and saying you have to believe the same thing. he is saying what he believes in and in response he is getting nothing but cutdowns and if anything, other people are being the pushy ones and saying that what he believes in is inaccurate and plain dumb. 

if you guys are going to sit there and tell him to respect what other people believe and understand other religions then don't turn around and disrespect and refuse to understand Christianity. 

(oh btw it's not technically breath   lol only joking)


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Huntergal111- Your getting defensive and aggressive just like you're saying we are. Frankly I have nothing against people believing in Christianity, but having been told time and time again that I'm stupid, going to hell, or a bad person just for not being Christian you might understand why I'm not as gentle with it as I should be (which I whole-heartedly apologize for by the way). 

What we believe is our personal business. Frankly I don't think there's much any of us can say one way or another, we're not talking face to face and so we're in no postion to change anyone's mind. Not that it really matters. Faith is something personal, not something you necessarily have to share with others.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

Well even though I don't think I did anything to be mean kegan (not saying Huntergal was, she even said she wasn't trying to be mean, she is just standing up for what she believes in) I do apoligize for whoever said things like that to youe Kegan because whoever was telling it to you like that definitely from my perspective isn't following what they should be following, which is the Bible, and even if there wasn't things like that in the Bible that's still wrong to put people down like that and to be trying to force something down someones throat.

Oh and btw Iit's about time you changed that avatar  jkjk!


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## huntergal111 (Aug 20, 2007)

OK yea I wasn't trying to be aggressive or anything but I was defensive because I hate it when people do that. if you have a problem with it then fine but you don't need to tell them how stupid and wrong they are for believing something other than what you believe. and I'm sorry somebody told you that because you are definitely not a bad person. nobody it a 'bad person.' some people just make bad choices and whoever said that to you isn't being a true Christian because Christianity is not about being all holy and self righteous and thinking you are a perfect person just because you are saved. that's not the true Christian attitude.
But I do believe that we have a right to express our opinions and beliefs, I mean isn't that freedom of religion is (it's not freedom from religion  I like that line, but anyways) everybody has a right to share their faith with others, you don't have to accept it but still.

and also (one more thing lol ) this country was founded on the Christian faith and frankly I don't think we would be where we are today (living in freedom) without the guidance and help from God and him leading our leaders to do the right thing. I mean I'd like to think that the country(and us, and even the world) is more than just a stroke of luck, that we are by intelligent design and planing and everything.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Neither one of you have ever said anything offensive towards me, especially not of that nature. Growing up around here though, it was routine. One of the reasons I have such a bad temper is the "holier than thou" attitude of people (not Christians, people) and being condemned by people that couldn't think they're way out of a paper bag.

Like I said, we all have our own beliefs. I think it's just a matter of making sure we don't forget that not everyone feels or thinks the same as we do (and in my case, no one else does:lol.

Merry Christmas everyone.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

I agree 100%


huntergal111 said:


> OK yea I wasn't trying to be aggressive or anything but I was defensive because I hate it when people do that. if you have a problem with it then fine but you don't need to tell them how stupid and wrong they are for believing something other than what you believe. and I'm sorry somebody told you that because you are definitely not a bad person. nobody it a 'bad person.' some people just make bad choices and whoever said that to you isn't being a true Christian because Christianity is not about being all holy and self righteous and thinking you are a perfect person just because you are saved. that's not the true Christian attitude.
> But I do believe that we have a right to express our opinions and beliefs, I mean isn't that freedom of religion is (it's not freedom from religion  I like that line, but anyways) everybody has a right to share their faith with others, you don't have to accept it but still.
> 
> and also (one more thing lol ) this country was founded on the Christian faith and frankly I don't think we would be where we are today (living in freedom) without the guidance and help from God and him leading our leaders to do the right thing. I mean I'd like to think that the country(and us, and even the world) is more than just a stroke of luck, that we are by intelligent design and planing and everything.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

Okay I just though this but this hread I posted simply about to remember the reason for the season has just about turned into a debate, I don't know why we can't all just keep our thoughts about arguing what is "true" to ourselves but oh well, what's said is said or um..something like that lol!


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Ignition kid said:


> I don't know why we can't all just keep our thoughts about arguing what is "true" to ourselves but oh well, what's said is said or um..something like that lol!


Well that's not fair, you posted _your_ opinion on what you believe the "true" meaning of the season to be, this is a public forum and you should expect other people to venture their own opinions. If you didn't want to hear everyone else's opinion you should never have posted, much less kept this thread going by continuing to add to it.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

kegan said:


> Well that's not fair, you posted _your_ opinion on what you believe the "true" meaning of the season to be, this is a public forum and you should expect other people to venture their own opinions. If you didn't want to hear everyone else's opinion you should never have posted, much less kept this thread going by continuing to add to it.


ya I know, idk what I was saying,lol!


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## acroboy12 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ignition kid said:


> Hey guys I am just wanting to post this thread to remind you all of what this holiday is truly about. And that's the birth of Jesus Christ when He, God's only son who is the Creator and maker of all things and knows the past, present , and future of everything and everyone and knows each one of us by name and knows our every though, action, just everything about us, and He came down to earth in the form of an innocent baby. And He was grown up, a completely innocent man, never sinned or though any bad though. But He was ridiculed, laughed at, cursed at, peole tried to kill Him, yet He never said or though anything bad at all towards them, and yet He loved them and loves us. And He was taken to Pilot (the ruler at that time) and wasn't found guilty, but everyone else cried "crucify Him, crucify Him", so they whipped him with a cat of 9 tails (a whip that had broken glass and hooks on it that tore flesh and ripped bones) and then they made Him a crown of throns and forced it into His skull. Then they made Him carry His own cross up to Calvary where he was then nailed in the wrists to the cross, and nailed through his feet to where if He were to take a breath, He would have to push on the nails that were through his feet to lift up to take a breath. And they still cursed at Him and mocked Him even more, yet He never did anything against them, then he was struck in the side by a spear, and eventually died for every one of you so that you can be saved and go to Heaven and to be with Him when you die.
> Just remember JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON!


You deffenetly know more than i do!!!!!!


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

acroboy12 said:


> You deffenetly know more than i do!!!!!!


thanks but it took me a LOT of Bible readint to get to know that and to defend it though!


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

*Merry CHRISTmas*

hey guys instead of me typing a new thread I am gonna bump this one up to the top for y'all to read what I had and still have to say about Christmas.

Like I said last year as is seen in the post I put at the beginning, to me Christmas is about celebrating Christ coming to this earth in the form of just another oen of us, but He was definitely more than that, He was and is God's son who came over 2,000 years ago to die for us so that we can accept him into our hearts and recognize that He is God's only son, and that he died for us and rose again so that we can be with Him in Heaven when we die and not have to spend an eternity of torment and suffering in Hell which is the exact opposite of Heaven. the Bible says that Jesus didnt come into the world to condemn it, but that the world through him might be saved.

Jesus doesnt want you to be separate from Him and away from His blessing that He daily loadeth us with who have accepted Him, and like I said He loves us so much that he was willing to die for all of us, died a horrible and terrible death, one that could be any more painful that what it was, but He did it for you, all of you, for every good, bad, terrible, or awesome it doesnt matter who you are, what you've done or anything but that anybody can be saved only if you believe on Him and asl Him into your heart and accept him as your savior, which He is, He has saved you from the eternal punishment of sin, but that gift of going to Heaven (hard to word it just right) has to be accepted for you to get it, God gave us a free will to choose wether or not to accept it, anybody can, you just have to believe in Him and what He has done and ask Him to come into your heart.
there are no special words to say or anything like that, if u say one word different, that doesnt mean u didnt get saved, u just got to do it and mean it, truly mean it.

This is just a very important thing to me. God tells believers that we are to spread the gospel and I would feel very terrible if I didnt share this great news with y'all because I sure want to see you guys in Heaven when I die, if I die after you, who knows when that'll be especially being a mechanic lol!
but in all seriousness guys and gals I find this a very important thing.

I'm not trying to shove religion and do this or have this happen or anything like that.
it's not religion, it's a relationship with God, who made you and knows everything about you, even more than you know about yourself, and He loves you so so so much, so much that you dont even realize His great love for every one of you. 
He's always there for you, even when everyone you knows lets you down, or wont talk to you, or doesnt care, or says they have 'better things to do', God is always there, He wont leave you or forsake you, He is always there for you, wants to hear you, wants to talk to you, and wants to give you the gift of salvation, u just got to take the present, He isnt going to force you to take it, He wants you to take it, but YOU have to accept it because God gives everybody the free will of Salvation.

God Bless y'all and I hope you have a very wonderful Christmas this year. Enjoy the time spent with friends and family, and the presents, but dont forgot what God has done for you.


and yes I know if u are an exact expert of dates and stuff Jesus wasnt actually born in December but that's no the point, it's about what He did for you.

Merry Christmas,
Clint


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## [email protected] (Jun 15, 2011)

Clint, you da man! Right on.


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## Rebel17 (Aug 23, 2011)

Christ is what CHRISTmas is all about... i know that i attend church every sunday and its a day of the birth of christ and presents are nice and all , but we still need to remember what its all about... and im sorry if i repeated anyones words but i kinda skipped over half this post


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## [email protected] (Jun 15, 2011)

After all, if Jesus isn't the reason for Christmas, why do we have all these old Christmas songs that tell about Jesus being the reason?


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## parkerd (Sep 30, 2010)

Happy Holidays guys! haahahah JK if someone tell's me this I'm going to ask what it means!? Hhaha jk but Merry Christmas guys!!


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## [email protected] (Jun 15, 2011)

parkerd said:


> Happy Holidays guys! haahahah JK if someone tell's me this I'm going to ask what it means!? Hhaha jk but Merry Christmas guys!!


 It means Happy Christmas and New Year's. Happy Holy days.


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## bonecollector 3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I think this is one of the best threads I have seen in a while.


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## isaacdahl (Feb 27, 2010)

Thanks for bumping this thread to the top Clint. It's important that we're all reminded of the real reason of Christmas. Seem ya got just about everything covered so I don't have much to say:smile:

And I agree with bonecollector 3 up above me^^^finally a thread worth posting on...


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## arrowslinger 23 (Aug 5, 2011)

Genesis 27:3 Take a look


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

thanks guys, that is all just the Holy Spirit speaking through me. I just find it important to bring this up especially this time of the year.

just thought I'd put this out there that while I'm typing this I'm listening to Casting crowns new song called 'come to the well'.
look it up on youtube it's an awesome song!


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

heres a link to that song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA8UNaGKRhY


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