# Archery ordinance to be passed in Surprise, Az



## Aceman (Oct 28, 2003)

Good luck with this. I wish I could shoot in the back yard at my home. This has been a law in my town for about 10 years.


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## kungfucowboy83 (Aug 24, 2008)

i lived out in surpise fo around 7 years (about 5 years ago). a little background 10-15 years ago or so surpise was a little peice of nothing that was just far away enough from pheonix that few people were there. then as urban sprawl caught up the population exploded and in place once had a very small suburban city center(of mostly old retired people) and a lot of out lying rural land (pivate homes on 1-10 acres of land) became the new yuppie paridise and the city council forgot about the rural part and the fact that many people still live in the outlying area. One other unfortunate thing (of many with with the city government) is the old mayor a b&%$ named schafer would try to do anything she wanted weither the people of the city wated it or not, legal or not. i seem to remember her loosing multiple lawsuits and having been in a small scandal right after i moved out.

anyway the point is there is now a large area of the city that is suburban with very small yards where archery may not be such a good area but there are other places where people own enough land that if they stood at one side shot their bow at a 45 degree angle it wouldn't pass the property line on the other side. Unfortunately theese are the people the mayor and the city council ignore (or used to at least).


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## bryangess (Jul 20, 2008)

Good luck That really sucks I shoot in my back yard and I do not know what I would do if I could not do that.


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## G20 (Jan 31, 2008)

I wish you luck. Have you received a response from anyone?


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Chip,

I sent an e-mail of support (for you) to your mayor. Hope it does some good.

Dave


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

Chip,
I also sent a note to your mayor. 
Besides pointing out the fact that safety comes first, with target shooters, I also proposed that if the city decides to pass such an asinine ordinance, they should, at least, allow the police to offer a multi-year permit to those who can demonstrate safe usage.
I also pointed out that those who have been shooting on their property for some time will likely be screaming, perhaps litigating, that they have to be grandfathered in.
Good luck,
Mike Braunstein


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

Thanks for the support. I recieved an email from my counselman representing my district. He thanked me for the letter and the suggestions. He said that he was pulling the second reading of the ordinance this Thursday, and offering it for another date so that the public can weigh in on it. 

Bob Pian of the ASAA also is rallying support. I hope that the counselmembers will take the suggestions under consideration. Thanks for the support. Please continue with the emails to the mayor and counsel members.


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

We were successful tonight at the city counsel meeting! Residents spoke, including myself, and representatives from the Az Game and Fish, in addition to KJ, representing the ASAA. The counsel unanoumously decided to pull the words BOW and ARROW from the proposed ordinance, and will look into a separate ordinance that regulated the use of archery, to include scouts, businesses, schools and home use. Thanks for everyones support!


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## therazor302 (Jun 2, 2008)

Congrats! If only it was free to shoot in any state (Kansas) It would be nice if they had a permit system like Licenses where you take safety tests. Oh well

Grats!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Archery Okay in Surprise
9-25-08
Surprise AZ, City Council Meeting Report

Thanks to the wonderful representation and speaking by the Arizona target archery community the Surprise city council removed “Bow and Arrows” ban from a proposed fire arms/weapon ordinance. 

City of Surprise residents, Eric Bennett(USA Paralympics Archer, Teacher), John Heffelfinger (Collegiate Archery Alum, State Archery Team, Detective)
and two other Surprise citizens spoke about the benefits of responsible archery. 
Kari J Granville, attorney, spoke to the law as it relates to Arizona Revised Statues as well as constitutional principals and the trail blazing nature of creation of archery specific law. 
The Arizona Game and Fish Department also spoke in reference to the need for tools to execute their mission. 

Little if anything could have been done better including a lucky coincidence of a Boy Scout Troop in the Council meeting audience to observe city government in action.
Three extra archery supporters in the audience to yield time to allow Granville to speak in excess of the 3 minute limit. 
The Police Chief spoke of the need to develop law that is readily understood and easily enforceable and welcomed the opportunity to work a solution.

The City council quickly and decisively removed “Bow and Arrow” from the proposed wording of the ban ordinance by unanimous vote. 
As exciting as the current preservation of the status quo is the Arizona target archery community’s opportunity (KJ Granville) to work with the City of Surprise to establish an ordinance that has the making of a Best Code model ordinance.

Thanks to all who offered comments, support and help. 
Surprise residents John “Chip” Heffelfinger and Eric Bennett expressed thanks for the out pouring of support and action. 
It was a team effort!
We could not have chosen a better City to work with to develop an archery specific ordinance as council members pay special attention to the voice of their citizenry. 
Surprise has remarkable citizen archers. 
Note that the ATA and the NFAA staff responded quickly to the call for help in the form of technical information and advice.

ASAA council meeting attendees:
Eric Bennett
John E Heffelfinger 
Kari J Granville (Collegiate archery leader, 2008 Top Overall Indoor, Field, FITA Champion and USAA World Team Member, attorney)
Lynn Van Patter (ASAA Membership coordinator)
Skylar Van Patter (JOAD)
Janice Price (AAE AZ Cup)
Bob Pian (ASAA Team Liaison)

Other:
Arizona Game and Fish Department Officer
Former Boy Scout Leader
Large parcel property owner representative.
Boy Scouts 

End


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

That is really good news.


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## arc2x4 (Jun 4, 2007)

Just out of curiosity was anyone injured or any property damaged by an arrow resulting in this ordinance? Any drive by Ninja shootings with black arrows???

The pellet gun prohibition should not be allowed either. Just becuase there are idiots who misuse bows and pellet guns It doesn't mean that those of us who follow the law and practice safe bow/ pellet gun usage should be penalized for the actions of irresponsible individuals.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

arc2x4 said:


> Just out of curiosity was anyone injured or any property damaged by an arrow resulting in this ordinance? Any drive by Ninja shootings with black arrows???...


We wondered also.
From what we were told, not accidents or incidents have actually taken place.
Law enforcement would like a “bright line” in place that provides for the easy determination of what is lawful and what is not.
One idea is to institute a permit process.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Archery in the City Surprise, Arizona, September 2008*

Archery in the City Surprise, Arizona September, 2008: Archive Record Information.
http://www.azjoad.com/2008/2008_Surprise_city_council_meeting.htm
(The reason to post this type of information is to record it for others to reference in the future. Please feel free to share.)


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

therazor302 said:


> Congrats! If only it was free to shoot in any state (Kansas) It would be nice if they had a permit system like Licenses where you take safety tests. Oh well
> 
> Grats!


therazor302
Please fill out your AT profile, About Me information so that others know who you are.
Do you have the ordinance that prohibits archery in Kansas as you mention or can you get a copy of the ordinance and post or email it to the Arizona State Archery Association at [email protected]
Thank you


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## therazor302 (Jun 2, 2008)

I have looked into it but I just can't seem to find the ordinance the ones I have found on archery were rules for bow hunting. I've been told my archery coach and just about everyone else I've seen shoot that if a neighbor complains or you are seen then you'll get fined a hefty sum. There is a free range pretty close by about 10-15 minute drive, I was just commenting that it would be nice to shoot in my backyard without worry of reprucusions when I have the sudden urge. Then again I live in in the suburbs so I don't expect it to change. Thanks for trying to help though =P. Sooner or later I'll get around to making a range in my garage as soon I'm 100% sure I won't miss the target.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

therazor302 said:


> I have looked into it but I just can't seem to find the ordinance the ones I have found on archery were rules for bow hunting. I've been told my archery coach and just about everyone else I've seen shoot that if a neighbor complains or you are seen then you'll get fined a hefty sum. There is a free range pretty close by about 10-15 minute drive, I was just commenting that it would be nice to shoot in my backyard without worry of reprucusions when I have the sudden urge. Then again I live in in the suburbs so I don't expect it to change. Thanks for trying to help though =P. Sooner or later I'll get around to making a range in my garage as soon I'm 100% sure I won't miss the target.


What we have learned from the City of Surprise experience is that there are very few archery ordinances http://www.azjoad.com/2008/2008_Surprise_council_meeting_9-25.pdf. We are also learning that many assume that fire arms/deadly weapon laws specifically apply to archery. The assumption should not be made with regards to target archery. It seems that the reason target archery has not been specifically addressed over the years is because there has been not been a need.

Proactive: Work to have your target archery community come together on a local level and present themselves in a professional manner to the community leaders, in particular the parks and recreation departments. Offer to help conduct archery outreach in the form of expos and the typical 8 week parks and recreation programs. Once target archery is welcomed, your archery community representative can bring up that the number one place to practice is at home on private property.

After our visit with the City of Surprise, the recreation department and city council asks us to work with them to host tournaments in the City. From a potential of an archery ban to wanting to host archery tournaments. WOW! 

Why the change I attitude you say. It’s all about education. Once people know who we are and what we do, they quickly see that we are the most critical when it comes to safety and despise anyone gives our sport a bad name by acting irresponsibly. The key is to approach you community with a willingness to contribute to the community. The first step in contributing to the growth of target archery is to become a Beginner/Intermediate Level 1/2 certified archery instructor. http://www.worldarcherycenter.com/ 

The words of John F Kennedy’s presidential inaugural address 1961, rings true…” ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country” (or in this case ask what you can to for target archery)


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## bdca (Apr 9, 2007)

Congratulations! 

I was thinking about this thread on my way home from the Nevada Senior Games as I drove through Surprise.

Cya!


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## fieldnfeathers (Nov 7, 2013)

I know this is a very old thread. I moved here to Surprise last year and was told by our neighbors that it was illegal to shoot my bow. Others have said it is completely legal to shoot on my property or any green space in Surprise. I've searched for the answer and came across this thread. However, I've also come across an ordinance, of unknown timeframe, that states it's illegal. Just looking for some clarification. 

Thanks,
Jim


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

a quick search revealed Surprise, AZ Ordinance located at

http://surpriseaz.gov/DocumentCenter/View/21949


Sec. 34-73. Restrictions on discharge, concealment and handling.
It is unlawful for any person within the limits of the city to fire or discharge:
(a) Any firearm, BB gun, air gun, pellet gun, dart gun, slingshot, gas-operated gun, cross bow, blow gun,or other similar gun or instrument; or
(b) Any arrow from a bow unless:
(1) The discharge occurs on private property, with the consent of the owner, from a location no less than 125 feet from any property line, by an individual or under the supervision of an individual who is 18 years of age or older; or
(2) The discharge is done by a government agent in furtherance of his or her official duties; or
(3) The discharge is done pursuant to Title 13, Chapter 4, Arizona Revised Statute; or
(4) The discharge occurs on non-residential property as part of a properly supervised range.
Properly supervised range means any non-residential location operated by or immediately
supervised by a governmental agency, public or private school, or an adult who is a member of
a company, group, or affiliated with a recognized archery shooting organization. 

Title 13, Chapter 4, Arizona Revised Statutes covers:

http://www.azleg.gov/arizonarevisedstatutes.asp?Title=13

Chapter 4	JUSTIFICATION
13-401	Unavailability of justification defense; justification as defense
13-402	Justification; execution of public duty
13-403	Justification; use of physical force
13-404	Justification; self‑defense
13-405	Justification; use of deadly physical force
13-406	Justification; defense of a third person
13-407	Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises
13-408	Justification; use of physical force in defense of property
13-409	Justification; use of physical force in law enforcement
13-410	Justification; use of deadly physical force in law enforcement
13-411	Justification; use of force in crime prevention; applicability
13-412	Duress
13-413	No civil liability for justified conduct
13-414	Justification; use of reasonable and necessary means
13-415	Justification; domestic violence
13-416	Justification; use of reasonable and necessary means; definition
13-417	Necessity defense
13-418	Justification; use of force in defense of residential structure or occupied vehicles; definitions
13-419	Presumptions; defense of a residential structure or occupied vehicle; exceptions; definitions
13-420	Attorney fees; costs
13-421	Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

arc2x4 said:


> Just out of curiosity was anyone injured or any property damaged by an arrow resulting in this ordinance? Any drive by Ninja shootings with black arrows???
> 
> The pellet gun prohibition should not be allowed either. Just becuase there are idiots who misuse bows and pellet guns It doesn't mean that those of us who follow the law and practice safe bow/ pellet gun usage should be penalized for the actions of irresponsible individuals.


^^Agreed.

It would be pretty ****ty to throw the pellet guns under the bus in a fight to save the bows. Both happen to be used in Olympic sports as well.

It might be one thing for the town to establish, or redefine the statute for use of either on public property, but it's not cool to just enact a blanket law banning use on private property as well.
Charge the people who do damage with either, leave the rest alone.


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## fieldnfeathers (Nov 7, 2013)

I figured as much. That's the exact ordinance that came up in my search as well. Ridiculous.

Thanks for the clarification.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm no lawyer, but it looks like the ordanance allows you to shoot on private property as long as you're 125ft from a property line by or with someone over 18. Or on a range (area designated for archery setup by the govt or a certified coach).


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## Lostnthewoods (Jan 24, 2013)

It disheartening to read about the continued government overreach at all levels in the US. What I find even more disheartening are all the comments inviting even more government into our lives. Why would a law abiding citizen suggest he would be willing to pay a permit fee and subject himself to additional government scrutiny is beyond me. Never give up hard won freedom if the cost to win it back is more that you are willing to pay.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Lostnthewoods said:


> Why would a law abiding citizen....


Let me stop you right there.

Are you suggesting that maybe it is more plausible that a law breaker would pay a permit fee and subject herself to additional government scrutiny? Or a law abiding citizen would pay a permit fee to avoid subjecting herself to government scrutiny?

So who are these law abiding citizens? How do you know if one is or is not? Perhaps you could wait until some of them misuse their equipment, then, wait for a couple more, just to be sure?


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## Lostnthewoods (Jan 24, 2013)

theminoritydude said:


> Let me stop you right there.
> 
> Are you suggesting that maybe it is more plausible that a law breaker would pay a permit fee and subject herself to additional government scrutiny? Or a law abiding citizen would pay a permit fee to avoid subjecting herself to government scrutiny?
> 
> So who are these law abiding citizens? How do you know if one is or is not? Perhaps you could wait until some of them misuse their equipment, then, wait for a couple more, just to be sure?


You are missing my point. Per the OP there has been no injury incurred either people or property. So the local goverment decides that the common sense thing to do is to create local law as a solution for a problem that does not currently exist. This solution would then require codification and enforcement. These actions will require a financial expenditure. As government creates no wealth it must use tax dollars to fund the creation and enforcment of a law that is being imposed upon the citizens (in this case rather arbitrarily). This is the very definition of tyranny. I do recall a certain revolution that was spurred buy simmilar actions.

A citizen is presumed to be law abiding until proven otherwise in this country. Are you saying that laws only apply to those that break them? 

My point is that many in the face of tyranny seem to agree to submit to it rather than fight it. Suggesting that one would agree to licenseing and the creation of more government and it's associated costs let alone invite it upon themselves is simply mind boggling at the minimum and wholly un-American.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Lostnthewoods said:


> You are missing my point. Per the OP there has been no injury incurred either people or property. So the local goverment decides that the common sense thing to do is to create local law as a solution for a problem that does not currently exist.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_VtccbaZOc




Lostnthewoods said:


> This solution would then require codification and enforcement. These actions will require a financial expenditure. As government creates no wealth it must use tax dollars to fund the creation and enforcment of a law that is being imposed upon the citizens (in this case rather arbitrarily). This is the very definition of tyranny. I do recall a certain revolution that was spurred buy simmilar actions.


Refer to link, again.




Lostnthewoods said:


> A citizen is presumed to be law abiding until proven otherwise in this country. Are you saying that laws only apply to those that break them?


Depends on how you would like to find out who the law should apply to. Like waiting for the next shooting?




Lostnthewoods said:


> My point is that many in the face of tyranny seem to agree to submit to it rather than fight it. Suggesting that one would agree to licenseing and the creation of more government and it's associated costs let alone invite it upon themselves is simply mind boggling at the minimum and wholly un-American.


You keep using the word tyranny. You're saying that there exists a tyrannical power out there who is hell bent on preventing an incident from happening by going to the trouble of making arrangements at a small cost so that the larger part of your community can be reasonably protected, AND at the same time letting you have your fun. 

You don't know tyranny.


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## Lostnthewoods (Jan 24, 2013)

theminoritydude said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_VtccbaZOc
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually living in NY I know quite a lot about tyranny. Tyranny can and does happen at all levels of government.

Tyranny: arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority.

I also fail to see how a sensless act of criminality committed in another country has anything to do with the topic of this thread. I encourage anyone wishing to subject themselves to micromanagment of their personal liberties to move to another country and not try to change mine.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Thnomas Jefferson

Thanks for the lively debate though.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Lostnthewoods said:


> I also fail to see how a sensless act of criminality committed in another country has anything to do with the topic of this thread.


Why am I not surprised?


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

Too bad this old thread took a turn for the worse. Bummer.


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