# Fastest wooden riser bolt down recurve



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

For that class speed is far less important than mass and stability. Window size/shape would be another factor. Look at what is winning internationally.
190-200 fps is not super fast but very competitive.

Grant


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## wabbithunter (Mar 25, 2005)

So what falls into that category Grant ?
I am looking for something with more mass and around 190-200 fps


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

The fastest would be a Border Covert Hunter but they aren't made in North America. In North America maybe Morrison's Max4 (available in spring 2016) are comparable and are made at Morrison. Last year there was a guy on another forum who asked the same question as you and was told over and over again the Border Covert Hunter. He bought one and now it's for sale. He just couldn't shoot it well. Maybe a lesson learned. Grant has the right idea.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

I think you'd have to go a long way to beat a CH. But they're in North America, but built in Scotland.

For strictly speed here, I'd look at Kirk at Big Foot . 

Bowmania


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## Elgavilan (Feb 7, 2010)

Dryad makes a bolt down bow that is pretty fast and smooth. Made in Texas. 

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## Todd the archer (Feb 7, 2003)

Predator recurves and Zipper bows have a rep for being fast although I have no experience with either one.


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## benja (Jul 27, 2004)

Zipper Z4 limbs are pretty fast.

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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

The Covert Hunter is an awesome bow for that purpose. 

Does wood mean that it cannot have phenolic?


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## marcelxl (Dec 5, 2010)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> The Covert Hunter is an awesome bow for that purpose.
> 
> Does wood mean that it cannot have phenolic?


I think you are allowed a mix, can't remember how they word it and too lazy to google it!

So, what is it with ("ambitious") archers in Canada obsessing about speed over everything else for 3D? This is getting a regular thing, over here on the west especially.

Back in the UK, I was lucky enough to be able to meet & shoot with a few "elite" target archers in both recurve and compound, like Olympic/commonwealth games level. I don't recall them ever concerning themselves with speed, it was always weight, stability and balance on their bows, sweet tuning and perfection in technique.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

marcelxl said:


> I think you are allowed a mix, can't remember how they word it and too lazy to google it!
> 
> So, what is it with ("ambitious") archers in Canada obsessing about speed over everything else for 3D? This is getting a regular thing, over here on the west especially.
> 
> Back in the UK, I was lucky enough to be able to meet & shoot with a few "elite" target archers in both recurve and compound, like Olympic/commonwealth games level. I don't recall them ever concerning themselves with speed, it was always weight, stability and balance on their bows, sweet tuning and perfection in technique.


That is how the FITA community thinks. They don't have to worry about having a bow that is heavy enough to kill a moose. Actually, the biggest difference is likely on the compound side where the FITA shooters use much slower, but more shootable bows, than 3D shooters. The difference is that FITA shooters know how far away the target is and they have practiced the limited number of distances 25,000 to 100,000 times per year. I was one of them, except with a barebow. I set up my target at 70 meters and hammered away, day after day.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Border makes bows with longer/heavier risers. For some reason they like to suggest risers which are on the short side for their CH, not sure why.
You can get their Black Douglas in a 25", you can even get it ILF and lock one limb down semi-permanently. It's a far less radical bow (this is a good thing) and they might even make a standard geometry limb for it.

Otherwise Chek-mate makes a bow with a 23" riser and they are Canadian. They aren't known for the best speed but that really is secondary.

Nobody else really builds a wood "target" bow. You could look for a wood Bear C riser then add modern limbs.

Grant


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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

Why are you worried about coming from North America? If it's the "buy American" thing, more power to ya. I guess I'm wondering if it's a rule thing.

Next, why aren't you more worried about which bow you may shoot the best. I have two 60# bows. One of which shoots 15fps faster than the other, with the same arrow... That's riiight!!! I shoot tighter groups with the slower bow. Don't know why, really don't care. I will grab that Samick to defend my pride every single time.

Didn't mean for that to sound like a rant. Me and my buddy are both shooters. We are also competitive as hell. He is a speed kool aid drinker, but will out shoot him three out of five times. I chalk it up to choosing equipment that I work well with, regardless of the numbers. He always is chasing the stuff with the best stats on the planet.

All I'm saying is, speed is one of many factors. Just don't loose sight of all the other things, because speed isn't the only thing.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Border makes CH risers out to 25 inches. The original is 60 inches. You don't really need a 70 inch bow with the CH. I have shot the 68 inch version and it feels fine at my 32 inch draw length.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

marcelxl said:


> I don't recall them ever concerning themselves with speed, it was always weight, stability and balance on their bows, sweet tuning and perfection in technique.


Shooting something like unmarked IFAA 3D out to 60 yards speed does help but it's way down my priority list, speed means nothing if you don't have good tune and Form. I suppose being a short guy without a long draw, speed never concerned me that much because the only way I was going to get it was by over bowing myself.


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## wabbithunter (Mar 25, 2005)

I'm not just focused on speed.Im looking for a solid heavier riser than I'm shooting now.(sammick Phantom)
If I can pick up some speed that would be great.I shot a predator recurve, it was a lot nicer at the shot than what I'm currently shooting.It also felt like it was faster than my Phantom.

So far the 4 that I'm interested in are 

Dryad Orion with ACS limbs 
Bigfoot Sasquatch with static limbs
Predator Recurve


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## wabbithunter (Mar 25, 2005)

The fourth is from overseas 
Border CH


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I've seen most of the offerings out there and the CH is the fastest bolt down recurve period


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)




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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I'd go with a bolt down Orion on the 19" riser with their target limbs. As fast as anything out there but way tougher and more forgiving.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

wabbithunter said:


> I'm not just focused on speed.Im looking for a solid heavier riser than I'm shooting now.(sammick Phantom)
> If I can pick up some speed that would be great.I shot a predator recurve, it was a lot nicer at the shot than what I'm currently shooting.It also felt like it was faster than my Phantom.
> 
> So far the 4 that I'm interested in are
> ...


If you look back at you first post in the thread, and the title, you may see why people think you are focused on speed...


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Bigjono said:


> I'd go with a bolt down Orion on the 19" riser with their target limbs. As fast as anything out there but way tougher and more forgiving.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not a lot of mass in those Orion riser's but even with the standard limb they are pretty quick, I don't shoot mine much (went over to metal ILF's) but I have to say it's the easiest shooting bow I've ever owned, I can not shoot it for 4 months pick it up and be dialed into it within 10 min.


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## concept (Aug 27, 2003)

If you are talking about carbon and foam limbs , this is not the same as wood and glass limbs. the fastest wood and glass limb tested by Norm in 2009 was the 
Fedora HP LIMB BOW. AT 60 POUNDS AND AMO ARROW 215 FPS. I HAVE ONE THAT IS 38 POUNDS AND 511 GRAINS GOES THROUGH THE CHRNO AT 168FPS
327 GRAINS 212 AT 28 INCH DRAW


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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

Ok, I can understand wanting to spend your money closer the home. Do the rules exclude ILF? That question was more for me. I suppose I would check out a predator. Or maybe a sky. Sorry if I came off as snarky earlier. I seem to be bombarded by the speed crowd from all sides relentlessly the past week.


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## Longbowfanatic (Mar 5, 2016)

Tyler,

Of the bows you've selected, which one(s) are cut closest to center? I'm just curious and might like to purchase on of these bows, but I prefer a bow cut to center.


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## wabbithunter (Mar 25, 2005)

No worries 
I really didn't ask the proper question in my opening post.Yes I'm looking for a faster bow,but I'm looking for a heavier more stable riser in my next recurve.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

I would say look for a Border Black Douglas in 21" to 25" riser or a Chek-Mate Hunter in 21" or 23"... We just had the Canadian indoor 3d nationals on the weekend and in Instinctive div 1st was a Border Black Douglas, 2nd was a Border Covert hunter and 3rd was a Chek-Mate Hunter 2.

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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

I have always used the speed to shoot a heavier arrow at a lower poundage. kept it in the 180-200fps range were I can gauge my point on, easily keeping on target at most 3d shoots.
Dan


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

grantmac said:


> For that class speed is far less important than mass and stability. Window size/shape would be another factor. Look at what is winning internationally.
> 190-200 fps is not super fast but very competitive.
> 
> Grant


^^^


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I love my border covert hunter. With a given arrow weight, it is probably faster than anything else, simply because it store so much energy. However, if you're doing target, lots of bows will get you into the 200 fps range. A Covert Hunter will just do it with a heavier arrow at a given holding weight. My Predator bows shoot just as fast, just as well, but they do it with a lighter arrow. If you're willing to drop the arrow weight, and the bow can handle it, 200 fps just isn't that big a deal. My 54# Predator Velocity, drawn to 30 inches (making it just short of 60# roughtly) with a 432 grain arrow, clocked in at 220 fps. I can get any of my bows to run at 220 fps, but I don't want to, because they don't feel good to me moving that fast.

The real benefit of a covert Hunter in a 3d scenario, or other border wood riser, is that you can have it cut pretty past center, getting your arrow at or near a true center shot, and as importantly, you can have the sight window made to a specified height, and shape. This makes estimating gaps at the riser a whole lost easier. You can also have the grip shaped to however you want, out of the box, as opposed to grinding and applying putty yourself.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I too like more weight in my riser 

Hence why I like phenolic in my risers


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

The Olympic guys don't go light either. I think Brady is shooting 48# and he is still elevated quite a bit for 90 meters. A good formula for speed is increase bow weight and decrease arrow weight. But at 3-D distances, who needs super flat shooting arrows? Field archery yes, 3-D no.


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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

The last outdoor event I watched with Brady they listed his draw weight @ 57#. I always wondered what his arrow weight was.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

JParanee said:


> I too like more weight in my riser
> 
> Hence why I like phenolic in my risers


Border will also custom-build risers with Tungsten built into them, to achieve more mass.

I still like mine with a wee more weight on the stab. Balanced out the bow quiver, as well as making the weight distribution more neutral front/back.


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## PaulDeadringer2 (Jan 2, 2014)

I like a heavy riser too.

Phenolic in a Predator...these are great performing bows.

Here's my Bigfoot ILF riser made with G-10....stable heavy stuff. Not a bolt-down, but Kirk makes them.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

The reason I recommended the Bear is that you will always be able to get limbs for it. Small bowyers either go out of business or change hands (Fedora, Chek-mate, 21st century, etc...) and you never know if you'll be stuck with an orphan riser one day. Plus most need your riser to fit the limbs. Bear may not be the the fastest but if Jinkster's chrono is any indication they'll get the job done. 
Now a C riser isn't made anymore but they are out there. The wood they are made from is reasonably heavy and they are cut past center as well.

Grant


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Realistically speaking?...There's so little difference between the moderate standards and the fastest of the fast?....that "How Fast A Bow Is" (or isn't) is one of the last things I look at...especially when all's it takes to make your moderate speed bow a very fast bow is a lighter arrow and a string upgrade never hurts.

The first thing I'm looking at when I'm looking at a wood riser bow is it's grip...because if that's wrong?...there's no sense even looking any further.

The next thing I'm looking at is it's sight window...and if it's one of those itty bitty tunnel vision jobs that I have to cant to obtain a full field view of my target?...that's a deal breaker too.

But if they pass both the acid tests above?...then it's on to "Feel Of Draw"...and included in that is noting the stability of the bow as it sits my hand both throughout the draw cycles and while holding anchored at full draw...I like them to remain as steady and settled as possible...closely followed by balance and at-the-shot bow behavior...do they stay dead and steady in my hand?...or do they feel loaded with vibration with the upper limb tip flying back at my head?

To me?...these are the things that count....in a word?..."Shoot-Ability"...and if it passes all those?...then I'll take a peek at arrow speed...and if I feel it's a little slow?...(anything under 180fps)...there's things I can do to perk it up but as long as the rest of the overall shoot-ability is there?...we're good to go! 

Here's my 47 year old '69 Bear Super Kodiak Phenolic....60"...36#s OTF...it's fast enough.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Attack said:


> I would say look for a Border Black Douglas in 21" to 25" riser or a Chek-Mate Hunter in 21" or 23"... We just had the Canadian indoor 3d nationals on the weekend and in Instinctive div 1st was a Border Black Douglas, 2nd was a Border Covert hunter and 3rd was a Chek-Mate Hunter 2.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D959 using Tapatalk


Nice to know... cheers.


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## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

That bigfoot is pretty sweet. Did you build up the shelf.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Asking about Brady's arrow weight, he is shooting x 10's & they are probably around 400 gr. total with 120 gr. points.


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## PaulDeadringer2 (Jan 2, 2014)

Tracker12 said:


> That bigfoot is pretty sweet. Did you build up the shelf.


Thanks....if you're referring to mine, lol. I made a slight hump to create a small contact point.


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## marcelxl (Dec 5, 2010)

Attack said:


> We just had the Canadian indoor 3d nationals on the weekend and in Instinctive div 1st was a Border Black Douglas, 2nd was a Border Covert hunter and 3rd was a Chek-Mate Hunter 2.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D959 using Tapatalk


Pretty sure 1st place would still have been the same if he had used a sapling from outside the venue…… second place maybe too! Mad skillz prevailed, bows not so much

Class guys & shooters, those two.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

marcelxl said:


> Pretty sure 1st place would still have been the same if he had used a sapling from outside the venue…… second place maybe too! Mad skillz prevailed, bows not so much
> 
> Class guys & shooters, those two.


Yes they are both very impressive shooters. Dave 3rd has improved leaps and bounds... I managed a 5th and didn't feel I shot very well. 

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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

Bob Lee bows shouldn't be overlooked, probably as fast or faster than any bowyer mentioned, they are made 20 mins from me, I've shot all the bows mentioned so far and Bob Lee has been the best on performance 


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> Bob Lee bows shouldn't be overlooked, probably as fast or faster than any bowyer mentioned, they are made 20 mins from me, I've shot all the bows mentioned so far and Bob Lee has been the best on performance
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dryad bows are in your neck of the woods. The Orion with ACS limbs is a good preformer. How would you compare it with you Bob Lee?
Thanks
Dan


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

None of the Bob Lee bows I've seen were what I'd call speedy, just solid [email protected] bows. Couldn't touch one of the modern [email protected]+10gpp bows we are talking about. They also don't have exceptionally long or heavy risers unless you get a vintage phenolic presentation, but then you are stuck with Dacron strings.

Grant


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

grantmac said:


> None of the Bob Lee bows I've seen were what I'd call speedy, just solid [email protected] bows. Couldn't touch one of the modern [email protected]+10gpp bows we are talking about. They also don't have exceptionally long or heavy risers unless you get a vintage phenolic presentation, but then you are stuck with Dacron strings.
> 
> Grant


Not sure what you're talking about, my Bob Lee classic smoke gets 195-205 fps on a consistent basis at 10 gpp
Pretty sure it can hold its own with any modern recurve abs im also shooting a FF string so again not sure where you got your input


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

DDSHOOTER said:


> Dryad bows are in your neck of the woods. The Orion with ACS limbs is a good preformer. How would you compare it with you Bob Lee?
> Thanks
> Dan


To be honest between the two it would come down to personal preference, the performance is pretty similar


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## PaulDeadringer2 (Jan 2, 2014)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> my Bob Lee classic smoke gets 195-205 fps on a consistent basis at 10 gpp


A variation of 10 fps is not what some would call consistent with a 10 gpp arrow.:wink:

205 fps/10 gpp....I think that would surprise a lot of people.


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

PaulDeadringer2 said:


> A variation of 10 fps is not what some would call consistent with a 10 gpp arrow :wink:
> 
> Please post a video if you're getting 205 fps/10 gpp, I think that would surprise a lot of people.


Will do


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## gfletch (Nov 9, 2010)

Attack said:


> I would say look for a Border Black Douglas in 21" to 25" riser or a Chek-Mate Hunter in 21" or 23"... We just had the Canadian indoor 3d nationals on the weekend and in Instinctive div 1st was a Border Black Douglas, 2nd was a Border Covert hunter and 3rd was a Chek-Mate Hunter 2.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D959 using Tapatalk


I sold a chek mate hunter 2 to a guy not far from you a few years ago, forgot his name though. I still have its little brother though


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## danshao (Feb 17, 2014)

I have a predator. shoots fast enough. far more importantly a very smooth, pointable and stable bow and a nice overall package of top quality. good customer service as well even after i told them its a second hand bow.


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

DDSHOOTER said:


> Dryad bows are in your neck of the woods. The Orion with ACS limbs is a good preformer. How would you compare it with you Bob Lee?
> Thanks
> Dan


But I would say the dryad bows are 3-6 fps consistently faster, I've shot over 10+ versions of Bob lees, I would say the Bob lees have less hand shock but we're talking slim differences between the two, I go to a south Texas 3D tournament every year and most of the bowyers in Texas/Oklahoma area show up to the shoot and let everyone have a gander at their bows, that's why I said I've shot most of the bows made in Texas

Of the bows made in Texas black widow was the slowest but it was one of the smoothest, you can't go wrong with any of them though


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Just to add...

We're talking speed differences in bows of what?...15-20FPS?....

Does anyone really think this has a significant effect on how well an archer will do with their bow?

Because to me?....it's negligible at best...put one Archer who's owned and shot his 190FPS bow for a year up against another Archer who just got his 205FPS speed demon last month and my money will be on the 190 guy all day long. LOL!

I've actually had times when faster bows screwed me up a good one and took me quite awhile to get my head wrapped around...nothings quite as awkward as when an archer shows up with a new fast bow bragging about how quick it is then goes on to shoot arrows over the backs of the longer 3D animals. LOL! 

And you all KNOW that happens! LOL!


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

I think the plus side of faster bows is that you can use a much heavier arrow with losing significant speed and you can also drop poundage in draw weight and still have good speed, that's the advantage speed bows have 


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

It's not all about speed it's about feel and the ability to cast a slightly heavier arrow harder which equates to better penetration as long as tune etc is considered


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I struggle to believe a glass powered bow is shooting above [email protected] Even a carbon powered conventional isn't likely to turn in those numbers. 
Now if it's [email protected] and you are drawing a 500gr arrow to 30" that is a different story.

Still doesn't get around the riser length/weight and center cut issue though.

Speed doesn't equal lack of stability. 210-230 can be stable. But aiming it might be a challenge depending on your anchor. I can gap shoot a compound at 270 easily because a very high anchor is easily reproduced with letoff and a wall.

Recurves are a different beast though and other factors besides ultimate speed are at play. You might want something that shoots a heavy arrow at good speed since competitive 3D setups use 32-33" arrows, tough to build them light at that length. 9-10gpp isn't uncommon.

Grant


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

grantmac said:


> I struggle to believe a glass powered bow is shooting above [email protected] Even a carbon powered conventional isn't likely to turn in those numbers.
> Now if it's [email protected] and you are drawing a 500gr arrow to 30" that is a different story.
> 
> Still doesn't get around the riser length/weight and center cut issue though.
> ...



Grant 

I agree 

I have only one bow that can do this and you know what it is 

Btw 

I have Bob Lees , widows , fedoras , Hoyt Quattros , silver tips , bf extremes etc


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## flytru (Apr 8, 2016)

View attachment 4119393
I would give a thumbs up to the BW MA's from the 90's before CNC produced bows or the HABU recurves ,both of which I owned and shot for years.


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## Archer Mech (Sep 7, 2014)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> Bob Lee bows shouldn't be overlooked, probably as fast or faster than any bowyer mentioned, they are made 20 mins from me, I've shot all the bows mentioned so far and Bob Lee has been the best on performance
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm glad you mentioned Bob Lee bows. I consistently get remarks such as,"How many pounds is that bow you're shooting? It really zips the arrows out there..." "It's just a 45/ 48#'er, but I draw over 30 inches..."


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

Archer Mech said:


> I'm glad you mentioned Bob Lee bows. I consistently get remarks such as,"How many pounds is that bow you're shooting? It really zips the arrows out there..." "It's just a 45/ 48#'er, but I draw over 30 inches..."


Yeah great bows, I'm not sure what the other folks shot but the Bob Lee ultimate is pretty fast for a recurve, it does get the speeds mentioned above, The pro at the archery shop near me has one I'll post a video with all the specs and speeds once I go there when I have time


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

JINKSTER said:


> Does anyone really think this has a significant effect on how well an archer will do with their bow?
> 
> Because to me?....it's negligible at best...put one Archer who's owned and shot his 190FPS bow for a year up against another Archer who just got his 205FPS speed demon last month and my money will be on the 190 guy all day long. LOL!


Yes

In World Bowhunters in Yankton Grahame Holmes shooting 230 fps Recurve in the Bowhunter div won but it's also worth noting that he out shot some respected IBO RU Stringwalkers by 150 points. He won around 10 World/Euro titles in Field/3D.

If you can balance the speed with a good tune and excellent form, it's a winning combo but most of us cannot. I think the issue is that when chasing speed people sacrifice Form by over bowing themselves. 

I don't have a long draw and this would be the only way I could match some other taller Archers with much faster setups, I do well with a slower setup just because I stay within my comfort zone on draw weight, I'm at a disadvantage because I cannot afford to make distance estimation errors as much as the other guy, specially on IFAA 3D out to 60y. I just accept I'm a short ass guy and get on with it lol


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

shot a longer bob lee. had large hooks, not super deep, but long and sweeping. smooth draw, felt nice.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

steve morley said:


> Yes
> 
> In World Bowhunters in Yankton Grahame Holmes shooting 230 fps Recurve in the Bowhunter div won but it's also worth noting that he out shot some respected IBO RU Stringwalkers by 150 points. He won around 10 World/Euro titles in Field/3D.
> 
> ...


Steve...what you are pointing out here is certainly significant..but I'm not talking about comparing the 6'4" monster man with a 32" DL smoking arrows out at 230+FPS with a 5'7" archer wielding a 27" DL and struggling to break 200fps...I'm asking if anyone really see's a huge difference in scoring between 190fps & 205fps...both of which are very pedestrian speeds imho and a mere 50grs of arrow weight could take you from one too the other handily....that's what I was asking.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

steve morley said:


> Yes
> 
> In World Bowhunters in Yankton Grahame Holmes shooting 230 fps Recurve in the Bowhunter div won but it's also worth noting that he out shot some respected IBO RU Stringwalkers by 150 points. He won around 10 World/Euro titles in Field/3D.
> 
> ...


I can see were the extra 150 points comes from. Which is huge.
Detailed sight mark table, relative to 30.0 m sightmark: 
Distance Sight pin offset Launch angle Time in flight 
10m 1.74 cm up 0.49 degrees 0.13 sec 
15m 1.30 cm up 0.77 degrees 0.20 sec 
20m 0.87 cm up 1.05 degrees 0.27 sec 
25m 0.44 cm up 1.33 degrees 0.34 sec 
30m 0.00 cm down 1.62 degrees 0.42 sec 
35m 0.44 cm down 1.90 degrees 0.49 sec 
40m 0.87 cm down 2.18 degrees 0.56 sec 
45m 1.31 cm down 2.47 degrees 0.63 sec 
50m 1.74 cm down 2.75 degrees 0.70 sec 
55m 2.18 cm down 3.04 degrees 0.77 sec 
60m 2.62 cm down 3.32 degrees 0.84 sec 
65m 3.06 cm down 3.61 degrees 0.91 sec 
70m 3.50 cm down 3.89 degrees 0.99 sec 
75m 3.94 cm down 4.18 degrees 1.06 sec 
80m 4.38 cm down 4.46 degrees 1.13 sec 
85m 4.83 cm down 4.75 degrees 1.20 sec 
90m 5.27 cm down 5.04 degrees 1.27 sec 
95m 5.71 cm down 5.32 degrees 1.34 sec 
100m 6.16 cm down 5.61 degrees 1.42 sec 

Dan


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

JINKSTER said:


> Steve...what you are pointing out here is certainly significant..but I'm not talking about comparing the 6'4" monster man with a 32" DL smoking arrows out at 230+FPS with a 5'7" archer wielding a 27" DL and struggling to break 200fps...I'm asking if anyone really see's a huge difference in scoring between 190fps & 205fps...both of which are very pedestrian speeds imho and a mere 50grs of arrow weight could take you from one too the other handily....that's what I was asking.


If you look at a drop calculator, it isn't nearly the difference that most people are chasing with a faster arrow. It might get you a few points a couple times a shoot if you misjudge 35 for 30, or whatever, on the foam versus over/under, but the difference within the distances that most people are shooting traditional equipment is often in the range of a few inches.

So long as all contestants are familiar with their equipment, it is unlikely to change the final rankings at most shoots I've been to. More important to know the trajectory than to flatten it, particularly since it doesn't flatten all that much. Even a bow cooking at 220 fps has a significant difference in elevation between 30 and 40 yards.

http://www.bestcrossbowsource.com/crossbow-arrow-ballistics-calculator

Keep in mind that this calculator assumes an initial launch angle of zero degrees. For a target located horizontally, we'd shoot up, the arrow will rise, and then fall, so if you're looking at the calculator but thinking of another scenario, think of the numbers as the last half, after it begins to fall.

Gives you an idea, though...


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## TxCal C (Jan 24, 2009)

Bob Lee, Palmer, Predator, Wallace. Lee makes a "Presentation III" target bow. The longest Predator is 62". Palmer I think makes a 64". Wes Wallace makes a 64". Those 4 bows are the fastest I've seen without getting silly light arrows. All those should shoot around or above 200fps with hunting weight arrows.

I have had a couple faster bows, but they aren't being made anymore.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

BarneySlayer said:


> If you look at a drop calculator, it isn't nearly the difference that most people are chasing with a faster arrow. It might get you a few points a couple times a shoot if you misjudge 35 for 30, or whatever, on the foam versus over/under, but the difference within the distances that most people are shooting traditional equipment is often in the range of a few inches.
> 
> So long as all contestants are familiar with their equipment, it is unlikely to change the final rankings at most shoots I've been to. More important to know the trajectory than to flatten it, particularly since it doesn't flatten all that much. Even a bow cooking at 220 fps has a significant difference in elevation between 30 and 40 yards.
> 
> ...


Good stuff Barney!...and I agree with it all!


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## jerseyboy1 (Nov 14, 2009)

Border covert hunter #[email protected]" 360 grn arrow...217 fps


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

danshao said:


> I have a predator. shoots fast enough. far more importantly a very smooth, pointable and stable bow and a nice overall package of top quality. good customer service as well even after i told them its a second hand bow.


I've liked all of the ones I've had, or still have. Pretty solid overall, in my opinion.


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## dgmeadows (Jun 15, 2005)

Predator currently makes a very fast TD recurve in the Velocity, but it has an aluminum riser. They also made a reflex riser in wood a few years back called the Predator "Impact" which was designed on the same profile as the Velocity, but with a wood riser. I own one of these, and it is for sale. Check out this link in the classifieds for pics and more information: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3904994


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## twigzz88 (Jul 17, 2006)

ive got a dryad orion with acs limbs, thought i dont have access to a chrono it really pushes arrows at my 27.5 inch and 40 lb setup. with a 450ish arrow id wager im pushing mid 170-180s easily, and thats with pretty light weight and my trex arms.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

wabbithunter said:


> Hi there
> 
> Just curious who makes the fastest wooden riser recurve in North America?
> It also has to be a bolt down riser to meet world archery "instinctive class" rules.
> ...


Dan Quillan bows were fast.... noisy.... but fast... :grin:


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

grantmac said:


> I struggle to believe a glass powered bow is shooting above [email protected] Even a carbon powered conventional isn't likely to turn in those numbers.
> Now if it's [email protected] and you are drawing a 500gr arrow to 30" that is a different story.
> 
> Still doesn't get around the riser length/weight and center cut issue though.
> ...


Quillan canebrake recurves will top 200 fps with heavy arrows... Speed isn't everything.


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## Paddlepro (Apr 13, 2013)

My 42# Border Black Douglas went through the chrono at 208 fps last weekend


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

flytru said:


> View attachment 4119393
> I would give a thumbs up to the BW MA's from the 90's before CNC produced bows or the HABU recurves ,both of which I owned and shot for years.


I shot my buddy's '93 widow in Feb. and it was very fast and a sweet shooter. I told him not to sell it as it would be hard to replace.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

*Grozer Csaba bows.... speaking of fast bows... though not a bolt down...*

I was really impressed at such low poundage
bows...


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