# .500 and .600 spine "Youth" arrows...



## midwayarcherywi

Well, it is a very hard sell to have parents buy new properly spined arrows when they just bought a Genesis bow with 1820 arrows included. I just had this conversation with one of our instructors.


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## limbwalker

Oh, I've heard 'em all. I know exactly the position these parents are in because I was one 12 years ago when my two older kids (and me) were new to JOAD with a very tight budget. I don't expect them to know the difference between a .500 and .600 and 1.000 spine arrow, but that's where the arrow manufacturers need to step in with decent information. 

A good example of this is what Carbon Impact does with their excellent Super Club arrows. They sell them as weak as 5/15, 10/20, 15/25 etc. offering an inexperienced parent or archer at least a CHANCE that they will select an arrow that shoots reasonably well and not crumple vanes or slap the shelf and sight window every shot. Or (as many have discovered) be so overspined that a new barebow recurve archer will need to aim 2-3' away from the target just to hit it.


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## w8lon

It is not just the carbon arrows either. Even adults shooting light draw limbs have a hard time with aluminum arrows the shafts of many of the arrows are only 27" full length, why? Fortunately the Groves Spitfire I was shooting last winter has an overdraw to allow me to shoot 1516's at 27".

Having the same problem with my kids trying to find proper arrows.


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## Beastmaster

Well, I'll throw a company under the bus here. I've even criticized them on my Facebook and Twitter page. Actually, I'll throw two under the bus.

One of them is the Easton owned company of Beman. Their ICS Junior arrows are a .500 spine arrow marketed to youth shooters. The arrows just suck, even for compound shooters.

Victory Arrows sells a "designed for youth" arrow called the Ares and Venus. Venus is the .600 spine variant, the Ares is .500 spine.

For compound archers, all three arrows just are horrid. I have 14 year old kids just getting into the .600 spine world.

I won't get into the recurve world.


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## limbwalker

> Victory Arrows sells a "designed for youth" arrow called the Ares and Venus. Venus is the .600 spine variant, the Ares is .500 spine.


Partly what caused me to start this thread...

I was asked by a JOAD parent yesterday to find some arrows for his daughter, and the Super Clubs are on backorder, so I was searching around for something she could use... Got my hopes up when I saw the Victory offerings, but honestly wasn't at all surprised when I saw the spines. Oh well, I guess at least they list them huh? LOL. 



> I won't get into the recurve world.


Smart man.


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## williamskg6

Unfortunately, it's not just kids getting terrible arrow advice. I have archery shop owners look at my arrows and say, "Those are way too weak. You need 500 spine carbon whizbang skullcrusher arrows with Dukes of Hazzard arrows wraps." They are, of course, completely wrong (I shoot 28 pound limbs) but the problem is many arrow manufacturers' charts for target recurves are just plain very incorrect. 

With the spotlight being shone on archery over the past couple of years, you'd think that proper information would be at least leaking in through the cracks, but so many "knowledgeable" shop owners are so stubbornly set in their false information and refuse to change because they are absolutely, positively convinced that they're right and there is no way they could be wrong. They have those charts to back their opinions up, provided by the arrow companies.

In my case, if there wasn't an ArcheryTalk forum like this one, I would have been accepting the information like I did right at my introduction to archery in 2008, and I would still be struggling with mismatched gear. My daughters and I are very grateful for folks on AT that provide good advice (like John "Limbwalker"). Many headaches have been remedied and/or avoided.

As for adults, the problem I have is one that many have - the softer spine arrows in 700 and softer are not long enough for the most part. I did find some 700, 800, 900, and 1000 spine carbon arrows in 31" stock length, and the manufacturer doesn't even market them to recurve shooters. For orangutan-armed shooters like myself, these are just the ticket. 

For my daughters, I'm just glad that they do have some selection, albeit mostly by mail order since most of the shops only seem to stock 500 to 600 spine arrows or stiffer (the aforementioned whizbang skullcrusher carbon types with General Lee wraps). I do wish, as has been expressed here, that there was a means for more proper communication to the shops as to what an appropriate arrow for youth recurve shooters should be.


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## agillator

limbwalker said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I am stunned at how many companies are marketing 500 and 600 spine arrows as "youth" arrows these days, and even more shocked at how so many archery shops are selling them to young recurve archers shooting 20# recurves...
> 
> ...


I suspect this is liability/safety driven. Put some young lanky outlier on the line with a "20#" bow and a full-length arrow drawn well into stacking and you could easily get to the point where 500's would be appropriate and 1214 Jazz's would be dangerous. Such unlikely events become virtual certainties if a product is successful. 

Knowledge is the remedy. If there were more recurve-knowledgeable shops parents could be directed to an appropriate arrow, but there aren't, so they aren't. Packaging and advertising could provide proper education, but try running that by your marketing department.


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## NOVABB

With this problem being the norm, what is being suggested on the various arrow selection software (ie The Archery Program, Pinnwheel ect.)? I'm asking because Ruth Rowe suggested that I reduce my weight from 36# to 22# with my 29" draw. I have only been shooting for 3 months and she took a few minutes out to give me a few pointers and suggestions. I know the 1916's and 1816's will not work, but since I will have to order them from LAS I was going to get the software and let it guide me.


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## edgerat

Why give people the right information when you can sell them two sets of arrows, maybe more with the wrong information? Nova, don't bother with the software for recurves, it is barely helpful for compounds, let alone recurves.


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## williamskg6

NOVABB said:


> I'm asking because Ruth Rowe suggested that I reduce my weight from 36# to 22# with my 29" draw.


This is a good illustration of the problem I have faced. It's going to be tough to find arrows long enough but soft enough. You could try the 1000 spine Bloodsport One arrows with 120 grain points, but that might not be technically soft enough. They are, however, long enough at 31". Pretty much any arrow in a range that would be correct spine is likely going to be one to several inches too short.


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## ccwilder3

limbwalker said:


> Partly what caused me to start this thread...
> 
> I was asked by a JOAD parent yesterday to find some arrows for his daughter, and the Super Clubs are on backorder, so I was searching around for something she could use... Got my hopes up when I saw the Victory offerings, but honestly wasn't at all surprised when I saw the spines. Oh well, I guess at least they list them huh? LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smart man.



I saw some Medallion XR's on clearance on a website yesterday for around $90.00 a dozen. I believe they had them down to 1100 spine. Would that be something that would help?


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## Cadpat

ccwilder3 said:


> I saw some Medallion XR's on clearance on a website yesterday for around $90.00 a dozen. I believe they had them down to 1100 spine. Would that be something that would help?


I saw them at Eagle Archery for $72 a dozen. http://www.eaglearchery.com/Carbon-Express-Medallion-XR-Arrow-Shafts. Meaning that it is $6 per shaft. Wonder if this is too good to be true?


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## LBinTN

That is a good price for the xr from what I have seen. Planning on getting some in the near future for the young ones.


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## limbwalker

Yes, $6/arrow is a good price for the Medallion XR's. And I'm intimately familiar with that arrow by now, as half my JOAD female recurvers use them, including my daughter, and I drafted a spine chart for CX specifically for the sub-1000 spine XR's for recurve. Great arrows. No other company can claim to serve the competitive youth like CX does with arrows under 1300 spine.

But I'm trying to keep the cost down, and the Super Clubs are the best bang for the buck for casual JOAD archers. They are durable, light, pre-fletched and come with nocks and points. And they are accurate enough for kids that only touch their bows once a week. I won't put a kid in Medallion XR's unless they've proven to me they are actually practicing at home, and are trying to get better.


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## LBinTN

Does the chart you worked up differ much from the one on the CX website currently?


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## limbwalker

Yea, it's about one full size weaker than the one CX published. 

Not sure why, but I always seem to tune arrows a size weaker than anyone else I know. Always been that way for me and my archers.


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## Matt_Potter

John 

Get CX to make the Maxima blue in a 33 inch 600 spine - there is a market for them 

Matt


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## limbwalker

I can ask. Not an arrow I'm familiar with, but I'll look into it.


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## Greysides

I don't necessarily recommend these, but they do exist................. now who speaks French?

http://www.archerie-roland.net/jos/index.php?option=com_securarchery_cat&task=liste&fam=1&Itemid=32


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## LittleJP

I do.

Basically they're saying they're designed for the youth and women in the 1650 and 1150 spines. Anything above is for men etc.


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## williamskg6

limbwalker said:


> I can ask. Not an arrow I'm familiar with, but I'll look into it.


Pardon me while I wander off topic...

Regarding the CX Maxima Blue, that's an arrow with dual spine and diamond weave that they currently offer in spines to 350. In other words, a hunting arrow for compound bows. They look very snazzy in person, if you like the woven carbon look. I think the woven look is exciting, but I don't know that I'd believe it's anything but for appearance. 

I am skeptical that the weave would impart strength where you need it in an arrow and may in fact impart weakness. I bet it's just an outer layer for looks with the real business underneath. Just 'cause carbon is woven doesn't mean it's stronger that way. Woven works well in applications like bicycles where tension stresses come from a lot of different directions, but in an arrow I'd expect the stresses to be largely compression in nature, hence my assessment that woven would not provide an advantage.

Back toward the topic at hand...

I think that in carbon arrows, the Medallion XR arrows sound nearly perfect and that's what my daughter will be shooting when she's ready for that next step above Platinum Plus arrows. That time is rapidly approaching in my daughter's case. 

I think what baffles me is that manufacturers are producing arrows that they should know are inappropriate for youth and that they already produce arrows that are considerably better for youth than these new offerings. As said above, "Why sell one set of arrows when you can sell someone two sets (or maybe even 3)." I guess my question is, are the manufacturers intentionally pushing these products knowing that they're likely to cause frustration in the name of selling more product or are they simply caving in to the demands of an uninformed dealer network?


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## dchan

Greysides said:


> I don't necessarily recommend these, but they do exist.................* now who speaks French?*
> 
> http://www.archerie-roland.net/jos/index.php?option=com_securarchery_cat&task=liste&fam=1&Itemid=32


Google does.
Try this.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.archerie-roland.net%2Fjos%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_securarchery_cat%26task%3Dliste%26fam%3D1%26Itemid%3D32


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## Greysides

dchan said:


> Google does.
> Try this.
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.archerie-roland.net%2Fjos%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_securarchery_cat%26task%3Dliste%26fam%3D1%26Itemid%3D32


Now that's nifty. I spun up Google Chrome today specifically to translate that and another website for me........... and it didn't do that one..........

Luckily with some help I worked it out..... I did speak a little French at one time.


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## hoytshooter15

The fact that arrow companies market 500 spine arrows as "youth arrows" makes me mad as well. I am a victim of this too. When I was younger, I contacted Easton, told them how much weight I was pulling (back then i was pulling 24 lbs.) and they sold me 550 spine. They tuned horribly and left huge rips in paper when I paper tuned. I think the reason they market stiff spines as youth arrows is so they can make more money. They know the naive parents of kids who just got into archery will ask what spine, then they tell them the wrong information just knowing they will come back in the future to buy the right spine. It's all a scam to make money of you ask me.


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## Aceman

hoytshooter15 said:


> The fact that arrow companies market 500 spine arrows as "youth arrows" makes me mad as well. I am a victim of this too. When I was younger, I contacted Easton, told them how much weight I was pulling (back then i was pulling 24 lbs.) and they sold me 550 spine. They tuned horribly and left huge rips in paper when I paper tuned. I think the reason they market stiff spines as youth arrows is so they can make more money. They know the naive parents of kids who just got into archery will ask what spine, then they tell them the wrong information just knowing they will come back in the future to buy the right spine. It's all a scam to make money of you ask me.


Do you really believe that? Or do you think even some of the Easton customer service people might be uninformed. I have a really hard time believing that someone at Easton would tell you a 24 pound bow would need a 550 spine arrow.


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## Poldi

hoytshooter15 said:


> The fact that arrow companies market 500 spine arrows as "youth arrows" makes me mad as well. I am a victim of this too. When I was younger, I contacted Easton, told them how much weight I was pulling (back then i was pulling 24 lbs.) and they sold me 550 spine.


right. i think you can not nail this on one company. maybe they are just afraid of sues on damages and stay wide on the safe side.


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## Dewboy

I feel your frustration and agree with you 100%. Archery companies market their .500 and .600 spine arrows to the youth because it allows them to sell the .006 wobbly crap that they can't sell to the adults. So kids get overspined wobbly arrows! And how do they get away with it? Because people buy the junk. They buy it because of their very limited choices. Very few archery shops stock arrows like the Carbon Impact Super Club or the Carbon Express medallion XR. But ask them, and they'll tell you they've got just what your kid needs.....Beaman Jr's or Gold Tip Lightnings. And they will tell you that they are made just for kids! All BULL. It's all about the MONEY. Too many archery shop owners could care less that a kid is grossly overspined. They figure most kids can't shoot good enough where it would matter anyway. And besides, the customers walk in asking for Gold Tip Lightnings or Beaman Jr's because of the MARKETING being done by these arrow companies. And the archery shop owner doesn't want to miss out on a sale! The arrow industry should be using these junk arrows to make lightweight quivers and carbon stabilizers instead of youth arrows. Just my opinion. 

This is not just a recurve arrow problem. It's the same with youth compound shooters. They are being grossly overspined as well. More folks need to support the companies like Carbon Impact and Carbon Express that do make the proper spined arrows for the youth. Most archers have probably never even heard of the CI Super Club arrows. They are amazing little arrows! Thanks for posting! The kids need more archers like you looking out for them! Most of the arrow manufacturers and archery shop owners certainly aren't doing it.


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## robin smith

The local archery shop I deal with flat out said I will order anything that I have in my catalog for you if you know what you want. 95% of my business is hunting related and I can not offord to stock target stuff it sets arround to long on the shelf. Besides most all the target guys just order thru LAS anyway. Talk about no vission lol


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## lksseven

robin smith said:


> The local archery shop I deal with flat out said I will order anything that I have in my catalog for you if you know what you want. 95% of my business is hunting related and I can not offord to stock target stuff it sets arround to long on the shelf. Besides most all the target guys just order thru LAS anyway. Talk about no vission lol


Have you taken (or will you take) the shop owner up on his offer?

I'd say the shop owner seems like a pretty astute business owner to me:
- he knows _his_ market and where the bulk of _his_ revenues come from (hunting/compound). 
- He knows that LAS is the Goliath to his David, and he cannot afford/try to compete with them head to head in _stocking_ target inventory. Buying/carrying many thousands of dollar$ in a variety of target equipment that sits around for many months and doesn't sell is a quick way to go out of business. 
- He also is attempting to be responsive to individual customer needs by offering to order whatever you 'the individual target customer' wants. 

When I bought my first bow 3-1/2 years ago (it had to be special ordered, along with all the paraphernalia), the dealer (a high volume compound bow dealer 45 minutes from my city) said it was the 3rd Olympic rig he'd sold in the last 10 years. Then an archery shop opened up a year later in my city (again catering almost exclusively to the compound/hunting market because that's almost 100% of the local market here). I bought two Hoyt Formula risers and limbs from them, after asking them to match Lancaster's pricing (they went me one better and beat Lancaster's pricing). 

It would be GREAT if the market/economics of the situation allowed a local shop to have a stocked variety of target bows and arrows to handle and heft and pull. But reality intrudes - if BassPro doesn't see enough opportunity there, how is a local business going to survive that monetary effort?


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## montigre

lksseven said:


> Have you taken (or will you take) the shop owner up on his offer??


I have and probably from the same shop, but for a target shooter, there's really no benefit to do so. I can place an order with LAS early in the day and usually have it on my doorstep a couple of days later. 

However, if I were to order the same target-oriented product through the local shop, I have to hope the order was not jumbled in translation between the tech and LAS, I then have to wait for a shop order to go in so as not to be charged with additional shipping, then I have to wait to be notified of its arrival, finally, I'd have to pay a modest upcharge for the transaction. So, usually this process takes a good 10-14 days to complete and adds about an additional 10%-15% to my bottom line.

I fully believe in supporting the local pro shops and fully understand that they must support their piece of the market that butters their bread, but as a target shooter, the cost-benefit ratio of doing business with the local proshops does not slant in my favor; just as it equally slants away from theirs to stock target arrows and accessories.


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## lksseven

montigre said:


> I have and probably from the same shop, but for a target shooter, there's really no benefit to do so. I can place an order with LAS early in the day and usually have it on my doorstep a couple of days later.
> 
> However, if I were to order the same target-oriented product through the local shop, I have to hope the order was not jumbled in translation between the tech and LAS, I then have to wait for a shop order to go in so as not to be charged with additional shipping, then I have to wait to be notified of its arrival, finally, I'd have to pay a modest upcharge for the transaction. So, usually this process takes a good 10-14 days to complete and adds about an additional 10%-15% to my bottom line.
> 
> I fully believe in supporting the local pro shops and fully understand that they must support their piece of the market that butters their bread, but as a target shooter, the cost-benefit ratio of doing business with the local proshops does not slant in my favor; just as it equally slants away from theirs to stock target arrows and accessories.


What you describe is common, for sure. I've seen it myself (as I'm sure we all have) - the dealer I bought my first bow from was a nice guy (and did me the huge solid of introducing me to John Magera after I'd only had my bow for a week - what a Godsend that was). But soon after, when I went to order some other things from him - arrows, points, etc - the delay before he even placed the order (he was waiting for enough volume to meet his minimum order from his wholesaler - arrgh!) was intolerable. So that's what prompted me to look around and discover Lancaster. So I completely agree that many local shops don't execute well, with no resulting benefit to the buyer. 

But it isn't necessarily a 'given' that it is always so. The shop that started up in my community a year later saved me 10% over Lancaster, the bows came in promptly, and I kept my money in my community. Win win. Of course, speaking to your point, if this second dealer had fumbled the ball, then I would have been back focused on Lancaster again (and for many/most 'non bow' archery related items, I currently jump on Lancaster or K-1 and order online).

Finally, the local shop doesn't 'have' to charge you more than Lancaster - that's a decision that your local shop is making. I know for a fact that a local shop has access to discounts that allow them to beat Lancaster pricing and still make a fairly decent profit (although it may not be the 'size' of profit that they want to make). I'm always a little irritated at local businesses that make their customers suffer because the local shop is not willing to 'take what the market allows them' in specific individual cases. Pragmatically, it's inconvenient to the customer; philosophically/strategically it's short sighted to the business.

PS: in my opinion the lion's share of the blame for local shops not carrying (being able to afford to carry) a decent level of target inventory) is on the shoulders of the manufacturers. If the manufacturers were really interested in strong dealer representation in recurve target equipment, they would make it easy/affordable/mandatory for the dealers to carry at least a couple of new models of target recurves each year for display/tire kicking, with a guaranteed buyback from the dealer if it doesn't sell.


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## HikerDave

lksseven said:


> What you describe is common, for sure. I've seen it myself (as I'm sure we all have) - the dealer I bought my first bow from was a nice guy (and did me the huge solid of introducing me to John Magera after I'd only had my bow for a week - what a Godsend that was). But soon after, when I went to order some other things from him - arrows, points, etc - the delay before he even placed the order (he was waiting for enough volume to meet his minimum order from his wholesaler - arrgh!) was intolerable. So that's what prompted me to look around and discover Lancaster. So I completely agree that many local shops don't execute well, with no resulting benefit to the buyer.
> 
> But it isn't necessarily a 'given' that it is always so. The shop that started up in my community a year later saved me 10% over Lancaster, the bows came in promptly, and I kept my money in my community. Win win. Of course, speaking to your point, if this second dealer had fumbled the ball, then I would have been back focused on Lancaster again (and for many/most 'non bow' archery related items, I currently jump on Lancaster or K-1 and order online).
> 
> Finally, the local shop doesn't 'have' to charge you more than Lancaster - that's a decision that your local shop is making. I know for a fact that a local shop has access to discounts that allow them to beat Lancaster pricing and still make a fairly decent profit (although it may not be the 'size' of profit that they want to make). I'm always a little irritated at local businesses that make their customers suffer because the local shop is not willing to 'take what the market allows them' in specific individual cases. Pragmatically, it's inconvenient to the customer; philosophically/strategically it's short sighted to the business.
> 
> PS: in my opinion the lion's share of the blame for local shops not carrying (being able to afford to carry) a decent level of target inventory) is on the shoulders of the manufacturers. If the manufacturers were really interested in strong dealer representation in recurve target equipment, they would make it easy/affordable/mandatory for the dealers to carry at least a couple of new models of target recurves each year for display/tire kicking, with a guaranteed buyback from the dealer if it doesn't sell.


Our local shop, Archery Headquarter in Chandler, is no more expensive than Lancaster Archery for most items. They are well aware of the prices Lancaster charges and are competitive.

I have never like special-ordering items from a retail shop, mainly because most retail shops don't like special ordering and it shows.

(I did order a bow case from the local shop, but that was back when I had recently bought a couple of bows and knew that the guy who was ordering would take good care of my order and keep me informed. Since then he and my other favorite employee both quit the shop and I don't have a personal relationship with anyone at the shop so I just go with Lancaster.)


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## gymma

I've been reading this thread and found it quite interesting. So, how do I as a complete beginner know what arrows to buy for me and my daughter? The only thing we have so far are the risers. Next will be limbs and arrows so we can practice at home. Is there a website or other place that I can use personal information about our draw length, bow size, etc. that is available for total newbies, or should I just order something and hope for the best. Right now, all the numbers floating around about spines are useless to me as I know nothing about arrows. Any informational sites that are written specifically for new archers would be greatly appreciated. Or, I can post our information here and get some suggestions. While that would be awesome, I also want to know why certain arrows are recommended over others so I can use that knowledge as I get more experience and would need to change to a different type of arrow.


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## TheLongbowShoot

I shoot 600 spine arrows at #34 drawing 27.5" and yes they are a little stiff. I really need upwards up 650 spine. But I hate how they say all these 500-600 and up are YOUTH. I am yea only 14 but still like you said adults are shooting that spine. I myself find it stupid.


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## dchan

gymma said:


> I've been reading this thread and found it quite interesting. So, how do I as a complete beginner know what arrows to buy for me and my daughter? The only thing we have so far are the risers. Next will be limbs and arrows so we can practice at home. Is there a website or other place that I can use personal information about our draw length, bow size, etc. that is available for total newbies, or should I just order something and hope for the best. Right now, all the numbers floating around about spines are useless to me as I know nothing about arrows. Any informational sites that are written specifically for new archers would be greatly appreciated. Or, I can post our information here and get some suggestions. While that would be awesome, I also want to know why certain arrows are recommended over others so I can use that knowledge as I get more experience and would need to change to a different type of arrow.


Read this thread..

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2037374


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## DruFire

TheLongbowShoot said:


> I shoot 600 spine arrows at #34 drawing 27.5" and yes they are a little stiff. I really need upwards up 650 spine. But I hate how they say all these 500-600 and up are YOUTH. I am yea only 14 but still like you said adults are shooting that spine. I myself find it stupid.


34# @27" I'd be thinking more of a 850-950 range


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## TheLongbowShoot

My arrows are cut at 28.5 inches. with 125 grain tips


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## twizzle

Having been burnt purchasing arrows which are too stiff for 20# limbs, I finally noticed the huge difference on the Easton chart between "Youth" and "Target" charts, where (for example) on the "Youth" chart for 20-24# at 26" it recommends a Jazz 1416 (1684 spine) shaft, but on the target/field chart for 17-23# @ 26" it recommends a Jazz 1614 (880 spine) shaft. This probably explains why the Jazz 1716 28" shafts we purchased seem to work so much better with a 30# bow. Go figure.


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## carlosii

I'm just an occasional recurve shooter (28 pounds/28 inch draw). I fooled around with some "youth" arrows I picked up at the local farm supply store. At the ASA Classic I was going through the LAS bargain box and found some Carbon Express Predators. They were MTO and ready to shoot and were 800 spine. Changed my shooting experience! Really enjoy shooting the recurve now.


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## Green Ring

I went to my local sporting goods chain yesterday to pick up whatever .500 spine arrows they had on sale. Turns out .400 is the WEAKEST spine they carry! 

Guess I should get a 70# compound like everyone else.


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## Joe Schnur

Order carbon express youth arrows 750 works great at 38# 28 inches


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Bubalus

Any recommendation for my 6 year old son's arrows? He shoots a Diamond Nuclear Ice. It's on the cam's B post, set for an 18.5 inch draw, with the limb bolts backed out as far as I can. According to the chart, that gives him a 14 pound draw weight. He is shooting with fingers, but he would probably think a release like Dad's is cool. I'm thinking Jazz 1416 would be a bit stiff, so I'm leaning toward Jazz 1214 or Carbon Impact Super Club 10/20. With regards to length, I'd like to give him a little room to grow since it seems like he is growing like crazy. Thanks.


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## dchan

Bubalus said:


> Any recommendation for my 6 year old son's arrows? He shoots a Diamond Nuclear Ice. It's on the cam's B post, set for an 18.5 inch draw, with the limb bolts backed out as far as I can. According to the chart, that gives him a 14 pound draw weight. He is shooting with fingers, but he would probably think a release like Dad's is cool. I'm thinking Jazz 1416 would be a bit stiff, so I'm leaning toward Jazz 1214 or Carbon Impact Super Club 10/20. With regards to length, I'd like to give him a little room to grow since it seems like he is growing like crazy. Thanks.



Read this thread, 
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2037374

and this thread

www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2053983

I commend you for trying to get his draw weight down as much as possible. Also on trying to find an arrow that is not 8 spines over stiff. Getting the spine closer will be helpful but no need to obsess over how close you can get. 

Go with a 1416 Jazz or carbon Impact 5/10 if you are going to cut it down a ways.. Leave a few inches (maybe 3-4 for growth) but he will probably lose or damage enough before he out grows the first doz.. and then just let him shoot and have fun.. If you get too obsessed with the tune, the shooting may loose it's charm and he may just quit.


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## VFX_Fenix

The archery shop I work at is extremely ignorant of the needs of recurve shooters. So much so that they tell people that "You never cut arrows for traditional bows because it doesn't matter." Honestly, kills me every time they say it and despite my efforts to educate the masses, it never seems to stick.


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## cockpitbob

Excellent thread guys. My 13yo son is in his 3rd 8 week JOAD session and outgrew his cheap arrows. After reading this thread I have some clue what to get him. Thanks!


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## hawk45

This is a great thread as my wife just ordered her first bow (compound 25"DL and pulling 30lbs to start). I was going to order some of the "youth" arrows, but heck, they are as expensive as a nice set of Carbon Express Medallions. I think I'll get these for my wife as they seem much better quality. I'd hate her to get frustrated from start with some low quality arrow.

On a side note, since you can't really seem to trust the arrow makers on their youth arrow recommendations, can we on the higher end hunting and target arrows?


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## Jim C

The Carbon Impact Super Club arrows now have an even lighter choice now-5/15. 

our JOAD club is switching over to these because of durability vs 1214-1516 aluminum arrows and for indoors we don't have to worry about them showing up on a metal detector


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## dchan

Jim C said:


> The Carbon Impact Super Club arrows now have an even lighter choice now-5/15.
> 
> our JOAD club is switching over to these because of durability vs 1214-1516 aluminum arrows and for indoors we don't have to worry about them showing up on a metal detector


While it's probably not a big deal indoors, a small word of warning..

The lighter the carbon impacts, the more I found that were not straight. Not talking .010 tir we are talking .100 tir or more.. Been buying those 5/15's and 10/20s at a pretty good clip. They shoot well and group well but just be aware.

You might want to "spin" check them before cutting and gluing in the points. The typical "fast spin" will almost always "scare you" so just a slow spin and watch how far they wobble. I have found that .100" TIR arrows still group quite nicely. even out to 50M they will stay in the red consistently. 

Jennifer has been very helpful and has told me they would take back and replace the ones that are really bad so I'm now doing a quick check on each package so I don't end up cutting and gluing them before I realize that they need to go back.


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## dchan

Just found a new issue with the carbon Impact super clubs. It's not really an issue per se, but a heads up.

The uncut/stock length is not always consistent so it's prudent to check if you are going to assemble these as full length and are expecting them to be exactly the same as your last batch. 

I have 3 packages of 15/25's. They vary in length by about 3/16" from package to package. I suspect they are the same batch because they have the same vane/nock colors.

I just happened to get ready to assemble another "full length" set when I just decided to measure them against my last batch from about a month ago. The new arrows are all about 1/8"-3/16" shorter than one of the current sets.


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## dchan

Bump

Oh, and the last batch of Carbon Impacts were all dead on the same length in each spine! 35+ doz


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## b0w_bender

I agree the arrow companies seem to care less about educating their consumers. 
What the hell is so hard about providing good information to the buying public. 

Hunters friend is a website of a compound retailer but they spent the time to spell it out for people and I send all the parents asking me for help there first. 
http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_1.htm

Granted that's a bit more info then most first time archers and parents want to commit to memory so it would be really helpful if the arrow manufacturers could dumb it down a bit.
It's not that hard to label the arrows properly, I'm mean really.


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## StarDog

This is exactly the reason I don't take advice from someone trying to sell me something. Ever. I have seen people in my club sold the wrong arrows by more than one shop and I have no idea why a shop would be that stupid because the buyer won't ever go back there. 500 and 600 spine youth arrows is irrational. The arrow makers surely know this is wrong.

Or do they care? Or is it the pro shops? Because a reasonable person will not patronize a shop that doesn't steer them in the right direction. I know for a fact that I would certainly do my homework then order what was reasonable for me rather than have someone tell me otherwise. If someone sold me something that was way way wrong, no way would I go back there.

That said, my local pro shop actually advised someone to order a bow directly from Lancaster because the owner said, "I don't carry that stuff here and I don't make enough off it ordering it for you, so save yourself some money and just go them direct."


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## bravefeather

I think you guys hit the nail on the head i was misled by a bow shop selling carbon arrows for $10.000 an arrow year ago the arrows were to damn stiff man i couldn't hit the target from 5 yards i had alot of trouble with this and everything was compound this compound that maybe they just want us give up traditional altogether i don't know when it was so damn frustrating that i was convinced i should switch to the compound to get good and man i got great at 50 to 70 yards . But as a child i had made bows out of pvc pipe before it was popular like it is now and then somebody had pity on me and gifted me with my first recurve it was a bear kodiak i think it had black limbs and white tips 40# and man that was a step up we made arrows from the shoots of that japanese locust i think some people call it honey suckle not sure man those arrows went right on target with no fletching course that was a long time ago.when i grew up there was no internet no where around i could get this info we just made do moma must have done something with that old bow when i left home wish i could go back man we were poor as church mice but thats ok we always had food and a roof over our head


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## bravefeather

I think you guys hit the nail on the head i was misled by a bow shop selling carbon arrows for $10.000 an arrow years ago the arrows were to damn stiff man i couldn't hit the target from 5 yards i had alot of trouble with this and everything was compound this compound that maybe they just want us give up traditional altogether i don't know when it was so damn frustrating that i was convinced i should switch to the compound to get good and man i got great at 50 to 70 yards . But as a child i had made bows out of pvc pipe before it was popular like it is now and then somebody had pity on me and gifted me with my first recurve it was a bear kodiak i think it had black limbs and white tips 40# and man that was a step up we made arrows from the shoots of that japanese locust i think some people call it honey suckle not sure man those arrows went right on target with no fletching course that was a long time ago.when i grew up there was no internet no where around i could get this info we just made do mama must have done something with that old bow when i left home wish i could go back man we were poor as church mice but thats ok we always had food and a roof over our head sorry about that just get thinking about those days wish i had that old bow its its long gone so is mama granny made my first bow as a kid with a branch and string sticks for arrows uncle had a knife was showing me how to throw he said we are cherokee tribe but that was a long time ago .their all gone except me and my other uncles and nobody cares what we are nowdays can't prove it without documents that you cant find or with records you cant afford.just make them if you must it worked for me just like my ancestors.


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