# Different Anchor Points



## CWarmouth (Oct 23, 2005)

Where do you guys anchor? I used to touch my middle finger to the corner of my mouth (which I guess is pretty common) but recently started putting the knuckle of my thumb in the joint of my jaw - kinda below my ear lobe. For some reason I shoot a lot better. I have an inch more draw length and it just feels more natural.

How about y'all?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

CW - 

Anchors vary and without knowing how the person posting shoots (and how well) such a poll is next to meaningless.

Anchors, to be effective need to meet 3 criteria:

1. Must be solid, using as much bone on bone contact as possible, you just solved that one.

2. Must be readily reproducible, think you took care of that too.

3. Must allow as close to full rotation of the drawing forearm as possible so that it appraches or becomes in line with the arrow. It's OK, if that can't happen due to the physical makeup of the shooters, but only after all reasonable attempts to make it happen have failed. That's why your new anchor feels better.

The only gotcha with #3 is that if it's too far back AND solid, you may run into issues with close shaves by the string.

Viper1 out.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

CWarmouth said:


> Where do you guys anchor? I used to touch my middle finger to the corner of my mouth (which I guess is pretty common) but recently started putting the knuckle of my thumb in the joint of my jaw - kinda below my ear lobe. For some reason I shoot a lot better. I have an inch more draw length and it just feels more natural.


The thumb behind the jaw is a classic anchor. The anchor that you shoot best with is, by definition, the best anchor (well, as long as it doesn't hurt you to use it  )


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## Jack NZ (Apr 7, 2006)

In order of importance.
Web of thumb and forefinger behind back of jaw,,index finger in corner of mouth,hen feather (shooting cock feather in) against side/tip of nose.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I'm still working on it, but the natural line of draw for me is the middle finger tip on my bottom canine, with the "quick reference" being the corner of the mouth.


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## suwat (Feb 1, 2008)

*Different anchor points.*

Viper would you please expand on #3 in your reply to this question. I can't get an idea of what you mean. Possibly me I am sure.

I anchor the base of my thumb bone under my cheek bone and have the tips of my split fingers touching the bent first knucle of the thumb. The arrow lines up under my eye. I only shoot 0 to 35 yards so this seems good for these distances.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> Where do you guys anchor?


I have three anchor points. The first is my forefinger on an upper tooth, directly underneath my eye. The second is basically my middle finger in the corner of my mouth, and the third is my thumb lying underneath my jawbone.

This has helped me with consistency--much moreso than just one or two anchors.

Chad


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Suwat -

See if this helps.










The anchor is the same in both pictures. In the left picture, the drawing arm (shoulder) is full rotated back and the forearm is in line with the arrow. In the right picture, there's incomplete rotation and the most likely result is a pluck. An anchor that's too far FORWARD on the face will usually lead to something like what's shown in the right picture. (Only pic I have available right now.)

Viper1 out.


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## pearsonpride_05 (Jan 31, 2006)

I thought we covered this before in a past post. Bone-to-bone = anchor point, all else is considered reference point, or did I read something wrong? If so I know it is merely nomenclature but we should try to keep it clear.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

pearsonpride_05 said:


> I thought we covered this before in a past post. Bone-to-bone = anchor point, all else is considered reference point, or did I read something wrong? If so I know it is merely nomenclature but we should try to keep it clear.


I hadn't heard that. But, any anchor point on the head can be utterly defeated by changing your body alignment, as Viper's picture hints at, so bone on bone anchoring vs. "reference points" isn't, perhaps, as vital as repeatable body alignment.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Warbow - 

What you're talking about in simplest terms is draw length. You can be crazy glued into your anchor and still vary your draw length by inches. That's exactly why the alignment (aka form) is the other part of the equation (over simplification). With new shooters, getting a soild anchor is job 1. Without that can't even begin to work on the other stuff.

The idea of a body (scapular) anchor is what been proposed by Lee and a few others (but you knew that). The problem there is that it can be too nebulous for a lot of people, especially newbies. I teach that to more advanced shooters as more of reference point, or secondary "check" rather than an anchor.

Viper1 out.


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## Jack NZ (Apr 7, 2006)

Nope,I didn't know that.
Or for that matter,what a scaptular is ????????????????


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## nattybumppo (Apr 9, 2008)

I am reading Byron Ferguson's book and he talks of trying for two years to anchor like Howard Hill .He finally realized that because his head was shaped different anchoring like Howard Hill was not putting the arrow directly beneath his eye.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

nattybumppo said:


> I am reading Byron Ferguson's book and he talks of trying for two years to anchor like Howard Hill .He finally realized that because his head was shaped different anchoring like Howard Hill was not putting the arrow directly beneath his eye.


I think that was one of the better things I got from Ferguson's book, that one shouldn't try and blindly imitate the idiosyncrasies of great shooters without knowing why they did them or if they will work for you.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Jack -

Lee, et all teaches that the "real" anchor is a specific placement of the SCAPULA (shoulder blade) over the ribs / spine, seating it, so to speak. While you can develop a feel for that, I'm just not sure it's beneficial for most of us - see the above comments.

Viper1 out.


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

> anchor is a specific placement of the SCAPULA (shoulder blade) over the ribs / spine,


Yep, you can think of it as 'folding the wing'...fold the scapula over and down towards the spine and it will lock in place. It's much harder to do if you shoot with a high elbow and/or anchor.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

bradd - 

The biggest problem with it is that it's bone over muscle, not bone to bone. With that, the exact placement can shift as the muscles stretch and modify over time. If you start that way, it won't be in the same place in one year. After a few years of "trained" shooting, things should have settled down a bit and then it can be used as a reference point or check. That's why I don't teach it to new shooters. 

Just my take ont it.

Viper1 out.


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## pearsonpride_05 (Jan 31, 2006)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=683073&highlight=anchor+point

"As far as the finger in the corner of the mouth - that's not an anchor, it's a reference point. For an anchor to be effective, it really needs to be bone on bone contact."

I knew I wasn't imagining things.


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## zillla (Feb 24, 2007)

Thanx for the photo Viper. It's something I need to check on my shooting form.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

zilla - 

The thing on that picture is that some folks may not be able to get that linear (left photo). The idea is a to get it as close as possible and only accept "less" after reasonable attempts have failed. 

That's my barebow anchor alignment, with a below the chin anchor it's SLIGHTLY less than perfectly linear (because the anchor is slightly foreward). Still works, and so far, attmepts to make it better haven't helped. Ya deal with what ya got.

Viper1 out.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Viper1 said:


> That's my barebow anchor alignment, with a below the chin anchor it's SLIGHTLY less than perfectly linear (because the anchor is slightly foreward). Still works, and so far, attmepts to make it better haven't helped. Ya deal with what ya got.
> 
> Viper1 out.


Wait, wait...that's **you** int he picture? I'd expected older and curmudgeoner :wink:

But, I think that is a great illustration. Some people seem to get away with the right hand example. I've seem a number of good archers who don't keep their back in-line with their bow arm, but I don't see those anomalies as a general recommendation.


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## jetthelooter (Feb 9, 2009)

i used to play golf until the golf swing caused an ancient back injury to flair up and actually caused me to have surgery to fix the issue. the one thing i have always kept is my experience growing up trying to learn to play golf. going through the growing proccess of learning to shoot near par rounds i went from having 9 hole rounds near two hundred strokes to shooting par a few times on 18 hole rounds. 

whats that to do with archery??

well its more the proccess of learning than what it is your learning. it made me think about all the lessons i got from "experts" and those taht were self proclaimed so. it taught me to take the experiences of others and sift out the mechanics of how to do something and sort that into what works for me.

from what i understand of archery that once you have an arrow and a bow in generally good shape and functioning order there are five things you need to do to get an arrow on target.

anchor point, grip, cant of the bow, aim, and, release. the funny thing is that you can be taught by an expert or instructor how to achieve a basic version of each thing. thats what lesson are for whether it is an instructional video or a book or personal instruction. what NONE of those can do is figure out what works for your body, build, strength, coordination and temperment.

i spent many years playing golf and making a severe injury worse trying to chase someone else's idea of the perfect swing. i like to think i am avoiding that with archery and i am just taking the basics and then going my own path. as i look back at my path to golf perfection even tho my journey there has ended for good it tought me that what works well for palmer does me no good since i am not him. so i take the same thing from hill and ferguson what works for them is probably not going to be so for me since i am not either of them. what i CAN take from them is their experience.

what is most important is the experience of the person your learning from. the opinions of people are worthless without the background into how they came to that opinion.

i hope my babbling makes sense.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> what is most important is the experience of the person your learning from. the opinions of people are worthless without the background into how they came to that opinion.
> 
> i hope my babbling makes sense.




That makes as much sense as anything that's ever been posted on this (or any) board, and more sense than 95% or more of what's posted.:thumbs_up

Chad


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Depends on the bow.

Target bow.
Kisser button in the corner of the mouth.

Hunting bow.
Kisser button in on the top of the chin.

Wearing full face camo while in cold weather it's easirt to anchor there.


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## suwat (Feb 1, 2008)

*Anchor Points*

Many thanks Viper for the picture(s) and advice. I have recently been trying to tune my arrows to a new bow and have been very frustrated. I changed my form to what you have suggested in the picture on the left and WOW no more issues with the arrow. I was short drawing and what ever and didn't realize it.


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

I just posted a thread on the finger shooters' board asking about a low (under the chin) anchor for barebow shooting. With a lower anchor, it seems to be easier to hold scapular tension while aiming, but then the arrow is so far away from my eye that it's of no use in aiming. I don't want to use a sight, because I enjoy barebow more. Any suggestions, guys?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Flint Hills Tex said:


> I just posted a thread on the finger shooters' board asking about a low (under the chin) anchor for barebow shooting. With a lower anchor, it seems to be easier to hold scapular tension while aiming, but then the arrow is so far away from my eye that it's of no use in aiming. I don't want to use a sight, because I enjoy barebow more. Any suggestions, guys?


Shoot longer distances. Your point on distance for your under the chin anchor is probably at 60 yards or something 

But I share your frustration. As I work on my target recurve form, I'm more wary of my more collapsed, older anchor, but the Point On distance is sooo far away. Is that why the victorians were so sold on the York round? Long distances for their under the chin anchor :tongue:


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Flint - 

That depends on how you're built. The lower anchor does allow for a lower shoulder, but unless you use a side of chin anchor as opposed to the older style center chin anchor, the drawing arm will be farther forward and not help alignment. 

The other risk is extending your point on distance, it's only a risk if your more common distances are relatively short. And yes, in that case, the lower anchor can be brutal.

VIper1 out.


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Thanks for the input, guys. Here's my current dilemma:

Right now the Winter weather is rotten: very cold and very damp. So we're pretty much indoors, shooting 18 m ~ 20 yards. I shoot 3 under with a glove and I've been using a knuckle to cheekbone anchor with my index finger at the corner of my mouth and string walking to get point on. 

I used to shoot FITA target and liked the feel of the low anchor with a tab and split fingers, with the bow arm and draw arm forming a nice T. It seems easier to hold while aiming. The higher anchor is solid enough, but I can't seem to steady the bow as much as with the low anchor. 

I tried using a tab with my barebow anchor, but for some reason, the bowstring kept shaving my cheek and messing up my arrow's flight, which it doesn't do when I shoot with a glove. I tried shooting split finger with a glove, but ended up pinching the nock, which really messed up my release.

Maybe I'm trying to have the best of both worlds, which is probably not possible, but any suggestions are welcome.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Flint - 

I'll take a leap here and guess that with the higher anchor you're not getting your shoulder low enough to corectly/fully engage your back muscles. That might not be a problem with the anchor as much as with what you're doing with the shoulders. If you can get a very light bow or reasonable substitue, hold at anchor and play with/adjust your shoulder position and see if you can make it any better. AND YES, it might feel awkward at first.

Viper1 out.


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

> I tried using a tab with my barebow anchor, but for some reason, the bowstring kept shaving my cheek and messing up my arrow's flight, which it doesn't do when I shoot with a glove.


This happened to me until someone suggested that my tab was too long. I shaved an 1/8th inch off the length and no more nose hits! 

Also, with the glove, it sounds like you might be opening your fingers or pulling the string through the fingers to release. If so, then the string might be ticking off the tab and coming back onto the face...which necessarily wouldn't happen with a glove. 

Instead of thinking 'release', try just refusing to hold the string any longer..."You don't let go of the arrow, you let the arrow go"...let the string slip through the fingers and they will automatically be kicked out of the way to fall down and back...no need for arm movements. Pulling the arm backwards can include bow arm movements. Shoot a few shots without the bow, eyes closed, from a solid anchor position, and see if your bow arm is moving at release...I'll bet it is..lol!


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Here are 2 pictures of my at anchor FITA and at anchor barebow:


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

Notice how flat the back of your hand is, and in alignment with the shoulders/elbow with the under the chin anchor, in comparison with the other anchor? Actually, in the under the chin anchor, it looks as though your wrist is bent inwards a tad too...meaning that there is tension in the wrist/forearm somewhere.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

Let me make a statement.....and then I'll ask a question:

Statement: I shoot 3 under...and use my middle finger as a reference in the corner of my mouth. I ALSO started putting my thumb BEHIND my ear (constant position) as use as another reference. My accuracy VASTLY improved when I started doing this.

Question: Is using your thumb behind the ear a "sound" tactic (in the eyes of trad. "experts")?

Thanks!

Jeff


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Jeff - 

Yes, it's a sound practice as you're gettting bone-on-bone contact and THAT is an anchor and not a reference point. The only problem is that, without seeing exactly how you are doing, it may already be perfect for you, or it may still need a little tweaking.

Viper1 out


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

Viper....I'll post a pic or two if you'll critique. What angles do you want?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Jeff - 

Photos are notoriously hard to pick up the details of an anchor. Broadside and rear from above/below are the most telling. If those two aren't possible, then a 3/4 rear will work.

Here's an example:










Viper1 out.


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

Viper, any tips for keeping the head/neck in the same place every time? Any references? I once saw a guy tuck his head tight against his bow shoulder but that doesn't work for me. A 1/4" head tilt makes a 3-4" miss at 20 meters.

PS...not to give YOU advice but....I'll bet if you rotated your elbow down and back a tad more(lock the right lat down), your hand would be flatter?


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

Viper:

Thanks for taking a look. If these aren't what you need....let me know. Kinda hard to do on my own.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Jeff - 

Wouldn't work for me, just looks painful. Besides bending the crap outta your ear, your head is cocked too far forward and there's some hunching of (at least) the bow shoulder, more evident in some pics than others . There might be a cause and effect. Is it possible, to rotate your thumb down and get it under the angle of your jaw line, as in the pics I posted. It might solve a number of problems.

Think you and your ear will bew a lot happier.

Can't tell to well what's going on with the string hand due to the glove, but there might be some cupping/tension there as well. 

Viper1 out.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

"Painful"???....lol

I'm only pulling 50#'s and it's far from "painful". I noticed my head leaning forward...but don't know enough to realize the cause/effect. I suppose I could try to place my thumb where you say....but I need to know the REAL advantage. I might have some tension in my string hand. A lot of that may have to do with how long I was holding for the photos. No?

THANK YOU. I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,

Jeff


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

Ouch!!!!!!

Almost looks like you are struggling with that anchor and it might not be consistent because the ear bends. Plus, way too much pressure on the fingers...especially the 3rd one.

Try what Tony suggests, although you may have to lower the first finger down to the mouth to be able to wrap the thumb under the jaw. He told me about it and now I use it all the time...although my alignment still isn't nearly as good or consistent as his...lol! I have tried the middle finger numerous times and although it gets the arrow closer to my eye and raises my point-on, I can't get it as consistent as the the jaw wrap and index finger on a tooth for secondary confirmation. 

Just as a note, the arrow will move around depending on how far the anchor fingers are spread from the jaw so it's important to keep this consistent too...hence the tooth reference.

PS Tony, the last 'suggestion' was meant as a joke...


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## jetthelooter (Feb 9, 2009)

if it works for JV and he can thunk arrow after arrow into the target its the right form and anchor for him.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

LOL...Do you guys realize how UNpainful it is to tug on your ear?

Try it...lol.

If I lower my first finger down to my mouth....have I not made the gap between my eye and my arrow greater? Is that a GOOD thing?


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

Gap between arrow and eye doesn't matter as much as gap at the target or the eye alignment down the arrow back to front. More important is consistency so yes, that's a good thing if it is achieved!


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

> Gap between arrow and eye doesn't matter as much as gap at the target or the eye alignment down the arrow back to front.


Can you break that down in terms I can understand?

Sorry!

If the angle INCREASES (nock point gets further from the eye) HOW can that be good for eye alignment down the arrow, back to front?


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

JV NC said:


> Can you break that down in terms I can understand?
> 
> Sorry!
> 
> If the angle INCREASES (nock point gets further from the eye) HOW can that be good for eye alignment down the arrow, back to front?


Lowering you anchor point or increasing the gap between your arrow and your eye will increase your Point On distance which can make it easier to hit targets at further distances...but the down side for some archers is that it creates a bigger gap at closer distances.

Neither is inherently bad. We can learn to use either one....but the smaller the gap that is created between your eye, arrow tip and target...the easier it can be to aim and the less room for error in many cases.

You will find as you develop your personal shooting form...that you will sometimes make compromises to achieve the desired result.

Try different things until you find what works for you.

Ray


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

What is "point on distance"?


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

JV NC said:


> What is "point on distance"?


Point On distance is where an archer can place the tip of their arrow on the bullseye for a specific distance like a sight pin and hit the target.

Ray


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## bwagn635 (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm not real specific, I just have my hand touching the bottom of my ear. I don't like setting the string on my nose.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

> Point On distance is where an archer can place the tip of their arrow on the bullseye for a specific distance like a sight pin and hit the target.


Forgive me....I'm a hunter and not a target shooter (trad.).

How is this possible if body position isn't static OR if you're shooting from an elevated perch?


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

"Gap between arrow and eye doesn't matter as much as gap at the target or the eye alignment down the arrow back to front. "

Most people forget or do not know that the arrow must be aligned from back to front OR within a specific 'sight picture'...meaning that the alignment with the arrow to eye to riser is always the same. If you have a good, solid anchor and the right arrows, the tip 'should' be just outside of the string alignment...but not always so. Simply, if you don't line up the back of the arrow with the front, it will go off target. If you line it up with the front, then point the front of the arrow at the target, with a clean release and good body alignment/form, then it 'should' go where it's aimed. The best alignment is thought to be; The string exactly down the center of the limbs through the center of the riser, and the string going from the center of the BACK of the arrow to slightly inside the front of the arrow. This is also thought to be optimal tuning and/or plunger setting.

Not sure if I explained this right!!!!

When I aim, I consciously pull the back of the arrow into alignment with the front. This also pulls my hand in closer to my face, flatter to my face, and in alignment with my body position. Then I just have to 'let go'. IF I don't do this, my arrow will land the opposite to where the BACK of the arrow is pointing.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

I have a lot to learn, it seems.

I don't consciously "aim". I look at the point and my target (same sight picture); mentally discern ydg. and release.


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

> I have a lot to learn it seems.


it's all fun!




> I noticed my head leaning forward...but don't know enough to realize the cause/effect.


This is a good place to start. Go out and shoot a couple of arrows with mouth closed and relaxed. Now shoot a couple more with closed and clenched. Again a couple more with mouth open. What happened?

A 'slight' tilt in the head position moves the arrow arrow in inches at 20 meters...try it!


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

one of the problems I see with a "thumb behind the ear" is that the thumb is on a vertical plane while the bow is on a canted plane... it sets up an "S" curve to the string that is detrimental.. try holding your string hand in the same plane as the bow is canted.
Also cold weather can make things interesting if'n you have to wear a touque or facemask... things to think about..


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

I don't wear a facemask when I hunt with my longbow. I wear facepaint.

But I will try some different things.

Thanks, guys.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

JV NC said:


> Forgive me....I'm a hunter and not a target shooter (trad.).
> 
> How is this possible if body position isn't static OR if you're shooting from an elevated perch?


No problem...just so you know...you don't have to be a target archer to benefit from where your Point On distance is.

Some bowhunters change where they anchor and the type of release they use to get their Point On distance closer to their average shot distance when hunting.

If everything basically stays the same with your alignment from the waist on up while maintaining consistant draw length...not much needs to change with your aiming...but if you don't maintain it and shoot from more awkward positions than you just need learn to adapt to those changes. It's far easier if you keep everything the same...but for some people, like myself, we enjoy the challenge and versatility that comes with knowing your personal capabilities and your bows capabilities to take shots that other archers wouldn't dare try.

It really boils down to your goals, personality and capabilities.

Just learn to have fun with it! 

Ray


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Jeff - 

I leave you guys alone for a minute. 

Sure, if works for you great, but I'm not seeing it. Lowering your anchor should give you a better (more confortable) hand to head fit and may even help the shoulder alignment. The head forward thing is putting a strain on your neck and that will get to you sooner or later. 

The idea is to remain as relaxed as possible during the shot, and anything that increases tension isn't going o help. 

Some of you're question are pretty good, but right now, the foundation doesn't seem to be there. Without that, the rest ain't gonna happen.

Viper1 out.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

JV NC said:


> Let me make a statement.....and then I'll ask a question:
> 
> Statement: I shoot 3 under...and use my middle finger as a reference in the corner of my mouth. I ALSO started putting my thumb BEHIND my ear (constant position) as use as another reference. My accuracy VASTLY improved when I started doing this.
> 
> ...


Jeff,

You answered your own question when you said...



> My accuracy VASTLY improved when I started doing this.


That's where the rubber meets the road: results. :thumbs_up


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

J. Wesbrock said:


> You answered your own question when you said...
> 
> 
> 
> That's where the rubber meets the road: results. :thumbs_up


Now, sometimes I've ignored the sage advice of the experts, because I found that what they suggested wasn't working for me. But then again, my shooting results go through phases where I'm shooting really well (for me), then, for no apparent reason (haven't changed anything consciously), my scores drop down into the basement.

I assume that I've unconsciously changed something, or a bad habit has crept into my form. Two things I've got to do then:
1. Go to the blank bale.
2. Ask one of the "experts" to watch me; they can really pick up on stuff I just didn't realize I was doing.

A prime example is my barebow anchor: After switching from FITA to barebow, I started shooting nice, tight groups out to 30m. The my results started going down the tubes. I asked an "expert" (one of our better barebow archers) to watch my form. He noticed that I would sometimes contort my mouth when concentrated, and since I was just using the corner of my mouth as a reference point (hadn't heard of the principle of bone-on-bone yet), my draw length varied by almost an inch.

Now, while I was shooting FITA, the coaches always said to pay attention to the bowstring-shadow and how it aligned with the sight. My barebow anchor is more to the side of my face, and I find it hard to even get the string into my field of vision. I've been working on that, but usually end up canting my head. Oh what a mess. Lots to learn, lots more to practice!


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Flint - 

What it comes down to, is if someone is happy with their level of shooting, then nothing else really matters. If they're not and want more, then changes have to be made. Even though some people don't want to admit it, a best practicies approach has been pretty well figured out (decades ago). And the fundamentals are pretty much the same for everybody (taking body type into configuration, of course). Once those are understood, then and only then is there room for "style" to entire into the picture. Heck, even the "BEST" system that's hot right now is 80% old school. (The other 20% may be entirely off the wall, but that's another thread...  )

Only in "trad" do you find (some) people proclaiming that they shoot better without an anchor and proud to limit their shooting to under 15 yds. Ya can't make this stuff up. 

Viper1 out.


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## Knygathin (Feb 10, 2015)

CWarmouth said:


> ... I used to touch my middle finger to the corner of my mouth (which I guess is pretty common) but recently started putting the knuckle of my thumb in the joint of my jaw - kinda below my ear lobe. For some reason I shoot a lot better. I have an inch more draw length and it just feels more natural. ...


One problem with that, if shooting traditional mediterranean draw, is that the thumb can move up and down on its joint in relation to the drawing fingers and arrow. So therefore the height of the draw in relation to the jaw will not be definite.

I am experimenting with touching the middle finger in the hollow of the cheek at the inner corner of the jaw.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Warbow said:


> I hadn't heard that. But, any anchor point on the head can be utterly defeated by changing your body alignment, as Viper's picture hints at, so bone on bone anchoring vs. "reference points" isn't, perhaps, as vital as repeatable body alignment.


You want it on bone so you can find it over and over. Put it on mush hard to repeat it. For under chin for example, on some of us there is plenty of mush under our chins, but you anchor that sucker with the same finger on the same bony spot on your chin and your groups will tighten. You put it in mush, and maybe it's the same maybe not. You even think it's same spot and it isn't.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Anchor under chin on up to anchor at eye level can be, particularly at low draw weights, a significant trade off on distance and point on. Your gap shrinks but part of the reason why, to me, is you're limiting the arc it can travel. You gain distance and arc moving down but also lose the directness of the eye to the aim.

I'd think having two contact points, thumb and top of hand, in the thumb behind chin, would create some ergonomic difficulties and potential inconsistencies. Not as smooth coming off maybe or maybe catches up. I know one dude who does it very well locally but he also is a long term coach with much experience in the sport.


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## Sauk Mountain (Aug 3, 2015)

Epic 6 1/2 year old thread revival.


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## kingjesse2 (Sep 16, 2014)

I anchor exactly as you do, and what Viper said above about getting a close shave by a string is true. I was giving myself a fat lip for a while by hitting it on every shot. How did I fix that? For some reason switching from a tab to a glove fixed it. I still don't know why, I only made the change 3 weeks ago


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Sauk Mountain said:


> Epic 6 1/2 year old thread revival.


Seems the lessons are timeless. I read thru the whole thread, and learned several things. 

I was also impressed at how civil and informative the thread was thru 60+ posts, until you brought up the thread date, which I had not bothered to notice. I need to sharpen up on my "obvious."


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## Sauk Mountain (Aug 3, 2015)

Well it was revived to respond to a person with "inactive user" under their name, which means they ain't been here in a while. Lots of thin skinned folks here is guess.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Viper1 said:


> Warbow -
> 
> What you're talking about in simplest terms is draw length. You can be crazy glued into your anchor and still vary your draw length by inches. That's exactly why the alignment (aka form) is the other part of the equation (over simplification). With new shooters, getting a soild anchor is job 1. Without that can't even begin to work on the other stuff.
> 
> ...


Started paying attention to my scapular position and overall body alignment for the first time in my life. Initially uncomfortable would be a kind way to put it, but the results were immediately noticed, and all were positive. I just played around with the feel of a shoulder rounded forward (bad, but familiar from years of shooting that way) and then locked my scapular back and aligned my draw arm with the arrow much cleaner. I'll need more test time, but it is pretty hard to "pluck" the string from this position, and the overall bone-bone is solid, thereby removing two huge negative factors to the shotgun spread of my groups. 

Thanks for the six year old pics, Tony. Also, thanks to Knygathen for the revival of this 2009 thread. Great stuff.


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## BullseyeShot (Sep 16, 2015)

Thanks for the picture(s) made my day.


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