# Minimum possible draw weight to make 70M?



## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

Hi guys, so I got a quick question. Since I may buy a W&w Inno bow next year, I thought since I would buy new limbs anyway, why not take a load off and drop a few pounds you know? So I'm wondering, what is the lowest poundage one can shoot (on the fingers) that can allow you to make 70M but *without having to aim off the target.* And by that I mean, what is the lowest possible weight on the fingers that can make 70M without you having to literally move your sight outside the 1 ring to compensate for arrow drop?


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## LittleJP (Nov 4, 2012)

What is your draw length, what arrows will you be shooting, and what weight are you shooting now?


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

LittleJP said:


> What is your draw length, what arrows will you be shooting, and what weight are you shooting now?


exactly

my top lady shooter reaches 70 meters using X10s or ACGs with a 38 pound limbs (36 PSEs on the 23" Xfactor riser) but she only draws 25" so the weight on her fingers is not much more than 32 or so

one of my cadet boys gets 70Meters shooting ACE with 30 pound limbs but he has a 27.5" draw

I generally find "FIFTY SEVEN" to be a safe figure-that being draw length and weight combined.

facial structure is another component as well that can change things. the distance from your eye to the arrow nock varies among people and the longer the distance, the better your sight marks


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

I got a 27 in draw, easton acg arrows uncut, shooting #33 on the fingers (backed out my tiller bolts all the way) now but just in general, what is this least poundage it takes to make 70M without aiming off target?


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

hoytshooter15 said:


> I got a 27 in draw, easton acg arrows uncut, shooting #33 on the fingers now but that's not my question. Just in general, what is this least poundage it takes to make 70M without aiming off target?


are you not getting 70M with that set up? that's better numbers than Chelsea Obrebski who got to the quarters of the US Open last year shooting 25" ACG holding about the same weight at you do


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

No i can make 70 easy, but what I'm asking is, how low can I go before I can't make 70 without having to aim off the target face?


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

hoytshooter15 said:


> No i can make 70 easy, but what I'm asking is, how low can I go before I can't make 70 without having to aim off the target face?


I am wondering why? are you hurt? if you can make 70 and its not a strain why would you want to go lower I can make 60 (I am a master shooter) shooting 15 pounds lighter than I shoot but that leads to lots of problems

heck if I could shoot 50 like I did 12 years and two shoulder operations ago I would since I got a far better release!


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

If you want to really know the answer for you - do the math. 

All they can tell you is examples of what Their students or what they've seen other young people shoot with. They gave you really good benchmarks if what others are doing. If you feel you need to drop weight then it sounds like you can drop down to around 30 and still aim on target but that's just anyone's guess. They don't know all the variables that pertain to you.


If you feel you are drawing a bit to much weight - since you just turned your bolts all the way out - then drop some draw weight. Don't let it be an ego thing - that will only hold you back.


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

Everything from your draw weight and draw length to your nock fit and length of face makes a difference here. Nobody can give you an answer that will be guaranteed to work here. +1 what Dacer says. If you think it's too heavy go lighter.


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## joebehar (Nov 13, 2012)

I make 50M aiming dead centre on the target. 

27" DL 26# bow with Platinum plus arrows and I have an inch to spare on my sight elevation setting. I just switched to lighter and thinner carbon arrows, so I suspect I will be able to make 70M with the new set up easily.

Consistently scoring in the red or gold at that distance may be a different story though...stay tuned


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## davemmevad (Apr 11, 2012)

Well, 30.25 inch draw length, 31# on the fingers, Aluminum arrows, and good form used to get it done for me. I've gotten to where I hold more weight now, and it does shoot better, but really it doesn't take much to get there if the Archer does his/her job. Before I started working with a foremaster, the exact same combo barely shot 50m for me - so in my case, improving my form was worth 20m. A valuable lesson learned.

That said, shoot the lightest weight you can get to group well. If you are in a club, see if you can borrow some ones limbs and test it out. Or, back out your limb bolts, and see if you can still make the distance. If you can, then you can likely drop 4 lbs in limb weight, and crank them down to regain most of the 4 lbs. But realize there are no absolutes, and ultimately it is a trial and error decision.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Probably the best way is to find out is by test shooting yourself, even if you have to borrow or buy some cheap limbs. That way, the results are for you personally taking in all your physical features and shooting style. Taking what someone else uses to get 70m is very general at best, ie: they may have a very long face or short.

But by customizing your setup for 70m max, will a time come when you might want 80-90m ?


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I've had the same question in reverse trying to see how far I can get out as an intermediate. I'm not sure where it crosses over to "enough" but 24# aiming at a NFAA indoor target with aluminum arrows gets me high on a 50 yd bale but short of 70 m. I didn't bother aiming off and I'm not sure if I'd make it if I tinkered with the sight holes (which poses a conundrum for me because I have the clicker out past the riser). I'm thinking 28-32# minimum. Which makes the "57" concept sound about right.


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Meghan hits 70m w/ 26# otf and 27.5" draw. Axcel 4500 sight almost all the way out on, 9, and about one cm from bottomed out on the aperture aiming at gold. Arrow is CX Nano SST.


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## gster123 (Dec 17, 2012)

hoytshooter15 said:


> No i can make 70 easy, but what I'm asking is, how low can I go before I can't make 70 without having to aim off the target face?


From other posts I gather you are a junior (correct me if I am wrong) and young. I started when I was 10 and shot my first senior FITA (1440) round when I was 11 aiming with bottom limb markings for 90m. I was in the same boat as you. Thing is remember you need to grow into poundage (I tore ligaments twice but back then it was different as you could not adjust weights as easy) don't push yourself to shoot on a target by cranking up weight. 

As frustrating as it may seem, and at your age, just concentrate on form and mental training and attitude, theres far more on the market not for mental training than there was when I was a kid. Get form down and you can rapidly move up poundage and draw length bu only when your body is ready.


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## bowmaster1972 (Oct 22, 2012)

Too many variables. Sight mounts are in different locations on different risers. I gained 1/2 inch on my sight when I switched from Hoyt to W&W. Plus there are many things you can do with a sight and still aim on target, such as move it all the way into the riser or even flip it over to be inside the riser. Then there are the arrows, but that is so obvious I won't even go there. Wanna get real picky, start looking at string weight, tiller and brace height. So "generally speaking" how light a bow can reach 70 m? 20 pounds could do it and still aim on paper, just not the middle. But then, as others have stated, why would you want to? If you have aim nearly at the top of the target with no wind, what's going to happen when a gust comes along? I know.... aim at the second cloud to left of the target.


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## FlyingWatchmake (Apr 15, 2012)

My wife can make 70m, 26# on the fingers, 25" draw, using 27" medallion xr 900 spine arrows, with the point of the arrow on the gold (barebow) ... So, not much poundage (though border hex 5 limbs) 

Tom


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Depends on too many factors as many have pointed out.. 26lbs OTF and medallion XRs will put me centered on the target. My rolan 22lb bow (24 OTF) get me close. Sight pulled all the way in and Carbon Impact 10/20's will do it.

Not a very forgiving setup but possible.

If you dominate your current DW and want to drop a few lbs, drop a couple but why take it to the limit?


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## rstgyx (Apr 13, 2013)

Don't people get concerned about their arrows bouncing out at 70m with 25# bows?

I've seen arrows shot from a 36# longbow bounce out at 20m and 30m :/


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Megs arrows are four inches deep most shots w skinny arrows. No problems w bounce outs at 70 so far.


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

From not too long ago. Worth a second read. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2033594


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Got to 70m w/ 24# (w/ bolts turned to add weight, so really higher than that) yesterday using CI SC carbon arrows limbwalker recommended. FWIW w/ Easton aluminum PPs I was coming a few yards short.

The informal scorecard will reflect the 70m attempts were 831MMM, with one of those Ms smashed beyond repair while I was trying to figure out sight settings. But it made me giggle to lose an arrow hitting the top frame, when I'd been uniformly coming up short into the mulch before trying carbons.

And I was probably as happy putting it on paper at 70m as I was getting a personal best indoors a few weeks back.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Glad they worked out for you. Just be sure to sort those CI Super Clubs, and you'll find a group of shooters in every dozen.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Making 70m with low poundage bows is good news. I'm getting older and find shooting 38# four days a week requires I rest and recover a day or two. Shooting my 26# bow more often will be a nice relief. Will check out the Super Clubs.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Joan McDonald, who some of you might know as the Canadian Olympic Team coach for the past few years, used to shoot 32" limbs with a 26" 1618 aluminum back in the old days (1970s), sight all the way out. Probably 28# on the fingers. 70M was no problem. Another fairly good shooter, Ken Brown, used to shoot 35# with 1716 aluminum when he got a bit older, also around 26", and managed 90M with no difficulty. 

*The anchor position is the key*. High draw weight and light arrows don't necessarily get you the distance.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

c365 said:


> Making 70m with low poundage bows is good news. I'm getting older and find shooting 38# four days a week requires I rest and recover a day or two. Shooting my 26# bow more often will be a nice relief. Will check out the Super Clubs.


If you want to get some arrows which don't require as much culling as the Super Clubs you can call Carbon Impact and order their Super Fast which are the same but straighter. You pay a bit more but you get consistent arrows.

I've been shooting VAPs and honestly I prefer the Carbon Impacts for consistency even with all their crookedness. Something about the filament wound construction seems to create a more consistent arrow.

-Grant


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

*Thanks grantmac*, I'll check it out. I've been using Carbon Ones but always open for a better arrow.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Stash said:


> Joan McDonald, who some of you might know as the Canadian Olympic Team coach for the past few years, used to shoot 32" limbs with a 26" 1618 aluminum back in the old days (1970s), sight all the way out. Probably 28# on the fingers. 70M was no problem. Another fairly good shooter, Ken Brown, used to shoot 35# with 1716 aluminum when he got a bit older, also around 26", and managed 90M with no difficulty.
> 
> *The anchor position is the key*. High draw weight and light arrows don't necessarily get you the distance.


Yeah, unfortunately I have a short face (eye to nock distance) so makes distances a bit difficult. Thankfully I have the compound which will make 90m+ easily with sight elevation to spare but, that's a different thing.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

grantmac said:


> If you want to get some arrows which don't require as much culling as the Super Clubs you can call Carbon Impact and order their Super Fast which are the same but straighter. You pay a bit more but you get consistent arrows.
> 
> I've been shooting VAPs and honestly I prefer the Carbon Impacts for consistency even with all their crookedness. Something about the filament wound construction seems to create a more consistent arrow.
> 
> -Grant


Are you thinking "ultra fast" shafts?

They are more consistent for straightness and spine however to get that real close in price feeling, you have to purchase the tubes and vanes and put the vanes on your self..

MSRP for Superclubs 78.33 fletched, points and nocks included Just cut and install points
MSRP for Ultrafasts yellow grade 86.74, you supply your own fletches, points and nocks included but not assembled. Pins are installed.
MSRP for Ultrafasts, Yellow grade prefletched.97.94 Still have to cut and assemble like the Superclubs.. These come with SS points instead of brass points.

A bargain all around but some people don't want to fletch their own arrows or can't. Some shops charge up to 5.00 per arrow to fletch them.
cutting services can be as high as 2-3.00 per arrow. Lancaster thankfully only charges .25 per arrow I think.

Our club has it's own cutting jig so we just do them ourselves.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

dchan said:


> Are you thinking "ultra fast" shafts?
> 
> They are more consistent for straightness and spine however to get that real close in price feeling, you have to purchase the tubes and vanes and put the vanes on your self..
> 
> ...


Generally I strip and refletch most of the Super Clubs that I've shot, just don't like the bigger fletching on the 20/30.

Getting a dozen bare shafts WITH points and pins for under $90 is a bargain any way you cut it. My only complaint is that once you get stiffer than 820 spine they get heavy fast.

-Grant


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

For 2014 they have gone to the 1.75 (smaller vanes) for 15/25's The 20/30's still come with the larger vanes.

The Ultra Fast 820 yellow series prefletched do come with the smaller vanes. Have a set in my hand right now and was about to install the points.

Agreed on the bargain price... That includes nocks too! For beginners however still missing the 122cm bale at 9M however, one miss, lost/broken arrow is 8 dollars. Those 1-2 dollars per arrow add up quick. 

DC


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