# best training aid?



## Jlla (Dec 6, 2017)

(I also posted this on the coaches forum, wasn't sure where was best)

I believe I have been incorrectly holding a lot of the tension when my bow is at full draw in my arms and shoulders causing some irritation in my bow elbow and draw shoulder. (I shoot recurve)

I want to purchase a strength or back tension trainer product to strengthen and help encourage proper technique, but I am not sure what to get. The customer service rep from Lancaster recommended either the KSL Gold Elite or the Astra archery trainer. I am reading "The Simple Art of Winning" and it recommends something called the Formaster

It seems each of these is slightly different. I was hoping for some advice or maybe pros and cons of these (or other) products.

Any input is much appreciated!


----------



## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

IMO best training aid you could buy is some good coaching/instruction. Then, if your current weight OTF is causing you discomfort, suggest getting some cheap lower poundage limbs and work your way up to the current ones. Just a guess without knowing more, but from the description it sounds like your form hasn't caught up to your shooting weight yet.


----------



## Jlla (Dec 6, 2017)

I actually don't shoot too much poundage, but actually need advice on the best trainers for technique and encouraging back tension. 

Thank you though.


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Formaster (elastic) or ... a Compound Bow with long valley


----------



## Jlla (Dec 6, 2017)

Thank you!


----------



## alithearcher (Sep 18, 2017)

Formaster. The elastic cord is a must and has a draw weight option. Otherwise for a rigid trainer, Astra shot is a good deal.


----------



## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

Either surgical tubing tied in a loop or a formaster. I made mine out of junk material. I use both.


----------



## tnjr5 (Dec 2, 2016)

Currently I'm using surgical tubing or a TheraBand (got a couple from my Physical Therapist). I wasn't sure what back-tension felt like until I started concentrating on form first, then slowly increased the tension on the tubing (i.e. shortening the distance between my "bow" and "string" hands). Go to a YouTube video by Gregory Richards -- search "Archery 101 The best training aid for Archery". The forum wouldn't let me paste the link because I haven't posted much...yet.


----------



## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Your bow is the best of all, but for a secondary training aid I'd agree with Vittorio. Ironically, I learned how to pull through the shot and truly isolate my back muscles on the compound bow first. I never figured it out on recurve until relatively recently, but that's a transfer of the compound skill, believe it or not. It doesn't help, since my groups are generally out in the woods still, but it makes the shot feel better. I'm beyond help on recurve, but on compound when I was a compound shooter, though, it dramatically improved my shooting to learn "pure back tension".

Another thing that really will help with isolating the back muscles is using a wrist-strap release aid. What that does is allow you to not have to use your finger/forearm muscles at all to draw and shoot and this can be a real help if you just can't get the hang of it. 

You don't need an expensive one and it may, repeat may, be a benefit to try it on your recurve bow. Just add a d-loop to the string and use your clicker in the usual way. Pull with your fingers fully relaxed and then punch the trigger when the clicker goes off (Frank Pearson style). With your finger muscles temporarily out of the equation and not generating "noise", you can more easily get the "feel" of the right muscles in the back.

I wouldn't do it for too long, tho, since you'll get used to it and then going back to fingers will be kind of "foreign" and you'll start having to retrain again. Just long enough to get the "feel" of back tension and then go back to fingers. 

Just a suggestion that may or may not help, so caveat emptor,

lee.


----------



## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

I think, the KSL Gold Elite can be adjusted to draw length. If that's so that would be my choice.
Nick


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Formaster is the best recurve training aid ever developed, although few have the discipline to actually use it enough to help them.


----------



## tassie_devil (Aug 15, 2018)

John (or anyone else), how would you advise including the form master in training? Every day, a couple of times per week?

I've seen two uses on the internet. Patrick Huston demonstrates holding exercises (reversals, he calls them), I presume both to feel back tension and build strength. Some shoot an arrow with a short power stroke which apparently will result in collapse if you are holding the weight with your arm. Would you do both of these as a beginner/intermediate archer?

Are there any other exercises to use it for?

Sorry for all the questions, but as usual after anything that will help (besides shooting my bow) and I just found a heap of webbing straps in the garage.

Regards,

James


----------



## Jlla (Dec 6, 2017)

limbwalker.. this is the Formaster with the elastic, right?


----------



## bahboric (Aug 22, 2013)

I have a home-made rigid foremaster and wonder what advantages/disadvantages there are to an elastic version.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jlla said:


> limbwalker.. this is the Formaster with the elastic, right?


No. A rigid formaster.

I wrote up a thread here on how I introduce the Formaster to my students. It is a very deliberate five-step process and they are only allowed to go to the next step once they master the previous step, specifically to prevent injuries. 

A rigid Formaster, SET CORRECTLY will provide maximum training benefit while still allowing the archer to shoot arrows. We used to joke about shooting "mini clout" groups on the grass 5-10 yards in front of the shooting line, and seeing which archer could shoot the tightest group in the grass. Done correctly, all the arrows should land 5-10 yards in front of the archer, softly in the grass, in a 3-4' circle. My own daughter did this for years from the time she was about 11 to 15, so I know it's entirely possible. She made it look routine and she was never injured or even made uncomfortable. 

Have a look at post #7, here:

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2198139&highlight=formaster


----------



## Jlla (Dec 6, 2017)

That's great, thank you! 

Unfortunate that I already ordered the elastic version, but great nonetheless! 🤷‍♂️


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jlla said:


> That's great, thank you!
> 
> Unfortunate that I already ordered the elastic version, but great nonetheless! &#55358;&#56631;*♂


There are many fans of the elastic version. The static gives the archer a little more benefit, and allows you to shoot arrows into the grass with limited space (in your back yard for instance) without needing a target. But IMO the elastic version is better than no Formaster at all.


----------



## Jlla (Dec 6, 2017)

Limbwalker... I have a range in my basement. Would using the elastic version be the equivalent to the rigid if I walk up close enough to the target? Or would I be better suited either buying a rigid trainer or hooking a string up myself to the elastic version and try to make a home version myself?


----------



## tassie_devil (Aug 15, 2018)

Jlla, I haven't used one, but I suspect the elastic would shoot the arrow further, maybe undesirable (try somewhere safe first). If you elastic one is simply a 'regular' form master with elastic on it you could replace the elastic on yours have with good quality paracord. I'm going to make one along the lines of this: https://publiclandbowhunters.forumotion.com/t2466-d-i-y-form-master-training-aid

But you may be able to adapt yours.

PS. LW the steps in your link were exactly what I was after. Thankyou.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Tassie is correct. The elastic version shoots the arrow much further. You would probably be better off in your basement with the elastic version and a target. 

Tassie - you're welcome. I hope it helps.


----------



## NebraskaArcher (Jan 3, 2015)

I have been using the Saunders Trap builder to increase the straighten in my trapisius. Unlike a simple stretch band, it forces the use of scapula and trap movement to activate. I have marks on the band so I know I am holding and when I pull past the clicker. I have found that doing several reps with the Trap Builder and then switching to my stretch band band has built solid muscle memory for a more consistent shot.


----------



## MTrainer (Oct 11, 2013)

The KSL shot trainer rigid makes it possible to check if your back remains in action during the release but with an elastic, yes it makes it possible to shoot shorter but allows less to verify that. It would be important to have an experienced coach to start this kind of training.


----------



## mikesven (Sep 23, 2019)

I had a chance to try the Astra shot trainer last night at our local club league night. It seemed like an incredible training device, especially for someone new like myself to get acquainted with the feeling of back tension and how to properly engage those muscles.


----------



## OneHandClapping (Aug 15, 2019)

I bought and tried the Astra shot trainer for the first time today. Is it diagnostically useful beyond the question of whether or not there is any collapse? 

For example, I was noticing that even when my arm did not collapse forward, I was sometimes feeling some shock in my upper trap and even the side of my neck upon release. Does this suggest that perhaps I have a high draw shoulder, or am otherwise recruiting muscles in addition to the ones I am suppose to like lower traps and rhomboids?


----------



## Roadrash 80547 (Nov 15, 2019)

Agreed. we use the Formaster, but it tires out th kids quickly when they practice.


----------



## phallenthoul (Aug 21, 2016)

I use Astra shot trainer for all my students. But I replace the buckle with a paracord loop.


----------



## tbfischer5 (Dec 17, 2006)

Granted string movement is maybe an inch or so, but is release training without an arrow on a rigid formaster not a dry fire?


----------



## nex667 (Sep 1, 2018)

The problem with a dry fire is that all the stored energy remains in the bow after release. With a formaster energy is transfered to the elastic band/formaster/arm


----------



## tbfischer5 (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks, just paranoia after making my own and maybe over-thinking the need for a one ounce arrow to save a bow.

Draw weight: 40#
Draw length: 28"
Brace height: 8"

All: 40 x (28 -8) = 800 in-lb dry fire
Release (@ 1"): 40 x 1 = 40 in-lb dry fire (760 in-lb into archer)

Perhaps still over-thinking (and over simplifying), but peace of mind nonetheless...


----------



## tbfischer5 (Dec 17, 2006)

And +1 for best recurve training aid and the formaster design. Besides the dry land condition, you can really get a better feel for:
- draw/back tension
- grip adjustments
- string alignment/sight picture

With a 40-45# bow, was really never even able to take time and notice the string in sight picture at full draw, let alone feel differences in slight grip changes. And these observations come after only a couple of 15 minute sessions. 

Wish I had discovered this contraption when I first tried traditional 12-years ago...


----------



## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

Jlla said:


> Limbwalker... I have a range in my basement. Would using the elastic version be the equivalent to the rigid if I walk up close enough to the target? Or would I be better suited either buying a rigid trainer or hooking a string up myself to the elastic version and try to make a home version myself?


Use high-strength paracord


----------



## eagleshot95 (Feb 14, 2021)

I am confused between all the options available. Can anyone point to a link of where I can find the elastic form master? I found a rigid on at LAS. I am a bit worried to make my own as I have never shot a proper form master. Thanks!


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Didn't .Gillingam have something like that that he shot compound with,


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

phallenthoul said:


> I use Astra shot trainer for all my students. But I replace the buckle with a paracord loop.


I checked them out on LAS. Not very good reviews, mostly due to failure of the seams in the material.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Roadrash 80547 said:


> Agreed. we use the Formaster, but it tires out th kids quickly when they practice.


Negative reviews on LAS mostly about metal fasteners causing pain.


----------



## Theisgroup (Oct 19, 2020)

I have the formaster elastic version and also the Ksl gold elite. These are 2 different trainer and work on different things. My formaster is one of the original and have not had any failures. Did have to replace the elastic tube. The formaster is more about back tension after the release. If you don’t maintain back tension, your going to collapse with the formaster. The Ksl is more on the setup, Anker and aim portion of the shot. To me you don’t get much from release and follow through on the Ksl. I added a bow grip to my Ksl to get a better feel and I love that you can set draw length. I use both, but different days for different purpose


----------

