# Appalling Quality Control of Flagship Hoyt Limbs (Hoyt Grand Prix Velos)



## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Having just received my second pair of brand new extra long Hoyt Velos limbs, I am just appalled by the quality and finish on $800 ($880 after taxes) limbs! I've handled and shot tons of flagship limbs over the last decade and I've really not seen limbs in $600+ price bracket come out with problems like these. I don't know if maybe my expectations are too high but when limbs cost $800 and are advertised as the top tier limbs from a company, I expect them to at least come out of the box without bubbling or pieces flaking off. All of the Korean flagship recurve limbs have flawless polish and finish out of the box. My experience so far will cause me to hesitate if any of my students ask me for opinions about Hoyt recurve products. I am hoping that the third time around I get a pair that doesn't have bubbling finish, chips, peeling, or delamination out of the box. I know so far my sample size is 2 and maybe lightning strikes twice but I've still wasted a month waiting for limbs to go back and forth and got 2 lemons. (Thank you Lancaster for being pleasant to work with about all this so far.) I want to like Hoyt and support American made products so hopefully this gets resolved.


Pictures of first new pair:








Top limb delaminated at the fork



















Bottom limb also showing some delamination











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The second new pair:










A lot of bubbling on the front face of the limb.




















Peeling of the finish on the left and something stuck in the limb finish.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

Oh my...mine have bubbles between layers of the clear coat... they are nice and smooth on the top coat though... what bothers me most is how the finish chips off under the limb bolts... I have been a very big fan of win win...I've owned several sets of ex primes and powers and even some of the newer flagship limbs like the ns and the mxt gw and none have ever flaked off under the limb bolts. I want to like Hoyt too but they give us so many reasons to dislike their products.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Dang, that sucks for both of you, not good...


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

That’s appalling. I have a set of Formula Velos that were absolutely perfect. I do get the feel these Extra Longs have been rushed out. I can‘t tell from the pics but I assume these no longer look like long Formula limbs that have been adapted (per the launch videos).

Good luck with getting this fixed.

Stretch


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## Brian N (Aug 14, 2014)

Terrible QC. It sours the reputation of Hoyt for sure. My Integra limbs, while not flagship, arrived in perfect condition last year, and have held up well. Good that Lancaster is reliable and a responsible dealer.


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## DarkMuppet (Oct 23, 2013)

I remember a UK archery shop assistant telling me they had a 60-70% return rate on the Quattros when they were the current limb. Sad that they're still having issues.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

DarkMuppet said:


> I remember a UK archery shop assistant telling me they had a 60-70% return rate on the Quattros when they were the current limb. Sad that they're still having issues.


This experience makes me think back to all the news I hear about Hoyt limbs of the Quattro/Xtour generation delaminating in the middle of US National tournaments in their first year of use. It's starting to make sense to me how that happens with the QC that I'm seeing still today.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I've heard it said before that EPA issues force US manufacturers towards products that just aren't as good as products that Koreans use...things like glues, epoxies, and clear coat and painting products. But someone still isn't doing their job inspecting products that leave the assembly line.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

I must be lucky. I haven't had a problem with any of Hoyts equipment. The only thing I've ever run into is other Trad/BB archers thinking Hoyt doesn't belong in the Trad/BB arena. 
I would have thought after demmer and dillinger got on board with Hoyt that more Hoyts would show up. Not sure if those two are still with Hoyt though.
Back to the topic. I have shot easily well over 200K of arrows out of my quattros and x-tours without a problem. I have done very well out on the circuit. I shoot mainly NFAA Field & Safari but, I've shot WA Field and Indoors too. 
Might be that they let their QC % increase. 
I've heard that you have to go back to the shop you bought equipment from and not go through Hoyt themselves. Not sure if that's the case with all equipment manufacturers maybe, because I've been lucky and haven't had to send anything back.
I hope you get this taken care of. It will go a long way for Hoyt to support the shop that sold them to you.


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## MrPhil (Aug 14, 2017)

UK_Stretch said:


> That’s appalling. I have a set of Formula Velos that were absolutely perfect. I do get the feel these Extra Longs have been rushed out. I can‘t tell from the pics but I assume these no longer look like long Formula limbs that have been adapted (per the launch videos).
> 
> Good luck with getting this fixed.
> 
> Stretch


Yes, that's the case. I asked Brady on Instagram (he is shooting them) and he confirmed they are identical in shape to his Formula Long Velos.


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## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

Sad to hear that Hoyt still have problems. I remember once when I was asked by an archery shop to help string some brand new F7 limbs up for a competition display booth. Just opened the box on the top and it was so out of alignment that it was hard to string it without the string falling off. Way more than what you can ever tune in with a riser. Bin it quality level. Sneaked them away and opened another box. Better, but still so bad that it just couldn´t be shown stringed up to potential customers. Had to take them down to. Third box opened and on those, the clear coat had so much bubbles and imperfections that it really made me wonder how it´s even possible that a major brand can let something so ****ty out through the doors.

I thought they have sorted the problems out by now. I got a pair of X-Tours that are one of the best limbs I have ever had and even if they are not at the same level as the korean limbs in terms of finish, they are very nice in terms of looks and quality feel. And shoot super smooth without feeling dead and dull. No matter what brand you buy or in what price range you are looking at, getting one set of limbs via mail-order is always a gamble.


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Interesting that there are so many stories of poor quality in Hoyt limbs. I must have owned 15+ different sets over 20+ years and never had an out of the box or total failure - including F7s and Quattro. Worst I have had is finish that falls off when you look at it sideways (FX).

Risers on the other hand... many, many, many. Looked at 4 Radian risers at a dealer - all so twisted I bought something else. Avalons (enough said). One of my Elans was only just shootable. The GMX riser I tried (didn’t like for other reasons) but was so far off the dealer should have been sending it back. (Should say that my Axis, Aerotec, Helix, RX, HPX, IonX were all fine). Then my 27” Prodigy RX is so bad you need all of the 3 dimensional adjustments to get it shooting well. Then my Xi is actually very good.

Problem is I have yet to find a Korean or Italian riser that I Iike as much as the Hoyts In terms of feel.

Stretch


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Earl never would have let those out of his shop. He wouldn't have even sold them as blems.


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## Theisgroup (Oct 19, 2020)

I’d have you agree. I’ve only ever shot blems and you couldn’t tell they were blems. The only indication is the line under or over the poundage markings.


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## chase128 (May 29, 2015)

So I just saw a set of open box XL Velos 36lb appear on lancaster.

As this seems timely for your returns, are these yours?
I am not sure if I am allowed to post store links, but if you search on lancaster its the only open box XL Grand Prix Velos. (Or just search for 8305682, thats the item number, limbs in the pic have serial number L114933)

The item descriptions say nothing about the defects and delaminating pockets, just "mounting marks" so if they are yours this is a shady listing.
(You can kind of see rough pocket surface issues in the pics)


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Theisgroup said:


> I’d have you agree. I’ve only ever shot blems and you couldn’t tell they were blems. The only indication is the line under or over the poundage markings.


Earl and Ann‘s “under/over line blems” were limbs that were not at the AMO weight markings - nothing to do with appearance. Line under meant one to 1.5# weaker than marked, line over meant 1-1.5# heavier. I used to get all my medium 50’s from Ann back in the late 80’s and early 90’s as “over line 50’s” because they were typically closer to 52 lbs.


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## ahw (Dec 4, 2019)

chase128 said:


> So I just saw a set of open box XL Velos 36lb appear on lancaster.
> 
> As this seems timely for your returns, are these yours?
> I am not sure if I am allowed to post store links, but if you search on lancaster its the only open box XL Grand Prix Velos. (Or just search for 8305682, thats the item number, limbs in the pic have serial number L114933)
> ...


Good find. That's really sketchy, like the guy with the X10s


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## Theisgroup (Oct 19, 2020)

Some actually had blemishes to the surface of the limb. I’ve seen a discolored carbon limb from their stock. Or drips in the finish


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Been busy so I havent been keeping up with the posts. I actually have a picture of the serial numbers on both pairs of limbs just for my own records. The 36lb XL Velos open box currently on Lancaster is the first pair I returned in case anyone was considering it. It had peeling layers at the fork and finish. I am honestly surprised it is being officially resold without pictures or descriptions of the problems.


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## chase128 (May 29, 2015)

fango0000 said:


> Been busy so I havent been keeping up with the posts. I actually have a picture of the serial numbers on both pairs of limbs just for my own records. The 36lb XL Velos open box currently on Lancaster is the first pair I returned in case anyone was considering it. It had peeling layers at the fork and finish. I am honestly surprised it is being officially resold without pictures or descriptions of the problems.


Thanks for the update, I am really surprised these didn't go straight back to Hoyt for QC investigation!
You would think partially delaminating pockets would be a pretty good reason to go back to the manufacturer.

Though the open box item has now been pulled off the store . . .


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Yeah, looks like either that pair of limbs got taken down or someone had bought it.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Update / Resolution:
For my third pair of limbs that I received, it also had some lint that appeared to be trapped under the top finish (pictured below.) Hoyt has since reached out to me to help address the problem and help get me a clean set of limbs. They said they will also look into the issue on their side to hopefully never have this happen again. I do have to comment that the service and follow-up from them has been great after they reached out to me. For me, I ended up returning the third pair to Lancaster for a refund rather than exchange for a 4th pair. I will perhaps revisit Hoyt limbs another time down the road.

Also for those following the thread, Hoyt has clarified for me that the issues on the limb face are not normal but the issues I had with the limb fork are considered acceptable.


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

The delamination on the fork was to spec? What kinda spec is that!


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

waxyjaywalker said:


> The delamination on the fork was to spec? What kinda spec is that!


I changed my wording a bit there. I think what they meant was 'considered acceptable' 

I agree with you, I don't really care for how it looks personally (albeit I know its hidden when the bow is strung). It contributed to my decision of not pursuing a 4th attempt at a clean pair of limbs.


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## archerynooblol (Nov 6, 2010)

fango0000 said:


> I changed my wording a bit there. I think what they meant was 'considered acceptable'
> 
> I agree with you, I don't really care for how it looks personally (albeit I know its hidden when the bow is strung). It contributed to my decision of not pursuing a 4th attempt at a clean pair of limbs.


If I'm not mistaken, that pad is just a bumper between the actual limb portion and the bottom of the tiller bolt.

It's probably a 2nd op process after the limb is made. 

Will the limbs blow up if it's separating a little? No. But it's definitely a quality issue regardless. I'm surprised that was their response.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

archerynooblol said:


> If I'm not mistaken, that pad is just a bumper between the actual limb portion and the bottom of the tiller bolt.
> 
> It's probably a 2nd op process after the limb is made.
> 
> Will the limbs blow up if it's separating a little? No. But it's definitely a quality issue regardless. I'm surprised that was their response.


Yeah, I think you're right on all fronts there. I don't think it's a great look for flagship limbs. I'm curious if this issue is really apparent on the matte finished limbs and if on the glossy finish the thicker clearcoat fills in all the gaps.


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## shootstr8er (Jan 7, 2014)

Just received 40# med matte set and they are perfect. No flaws. Wondering if it’s just the xlongs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chase128 (May 29, 2015)

shootstr8er said:


> Just received 40# med matte set and they are perfect. No flaws. Wondering if it’s just the xlongs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any chance you can post of some pics of what the good matte QC limb pockets look like? The side that contacts the limb and the inside of the pocket seemed to be the issue on the OP's limbs.


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

After buying a Satori riser that had had the limb pockets machined at an angle (which took a long time to diagnose and a lot of driving, cost and hassle to me), I will never touch a Hoyt product again. The dealer told me that they see a LOT of issues with Hoyt products, most of which slip past customers that simply don’t know better. A second dealer told me they’d had lots of problems with particular Hoyt products resulting in a huge return rate. There are lots of amazing products with fantastic QC so I see no need to pay bloated prices for products from a company that appears to have a very aggressive and restrictive policy for dealerships and is notorious for screwing dealers over on QC returns. They’re awesome at marketing though. Got to give them that.


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

I don’t touch open box anything. I used to think it was a good way of saving money, but learnt the hard way. I bought a display TRX40 that had a lot of vibration, which new cams fixed. Goodness knows what had happened to it. In photography, I have bought cameras that have turned out to have a very deeply buried issue that you’d only discover with time. Same with a laptop (cooling problem).

New in sealed box for me. It’s annoying and expensive, but NIB does’t reduce the cost nearly as much as used and used kit has usually been well used, which tells you something! You also have a single, often accountable, individual standing behind the sale. It is crystal clear that a lot of open box items are returns that shops think they can fob off on unsuspecting buyers. Cosmetic issues are fine, but they should be clearly stated in the description.


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## 123 4/8 P&Y (Jul 10, 2008)

This is all very shocking to me. I thought Hoyt was a premium product.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Giannis_A (Feb 15, 2021)

123 4/8 P&Y said:


> This is all very shocking to me. I thought Hoyt was a premium product.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Save the grief,
Buy Sanlida Miracle X10 instead. Same performance 1/2 the price.


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Giannis_A said:


> Save the grief,
> Buy Sanlida Miracle X10 instead. Same performance 1/2 the price.


Am I missing something? Do Sanlida make a XL/72” limb length? I can only see the usual 66/68/70” options.

Stretch


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## Giannis_A (Feb 15, 2021)

I believe this is a custom job. But if you contact the factory directly you should not have an issue.


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## Athenova (Jul 8, 2020)

Yikes, that’s wild. I just put an order in for Matte Velos (tho not the XL— I got S) and hope it’s not a lemon 😬 

Obviously no one wants a lemon but they don’t expect to have to hope to not get one from a main brand company. 😭


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## Skeptix_907 (Jul 30, 2020)

I would never buy expensive flagship limbs from Lancaster. I know they generally have a good reputation, but the local dealer I buy from has some not great things to say about the quality of the product these companies give to Lancaster to sell - everything from arrows to limbs.

I've bought two sets of XL Velos through the dealer and have not seen a single problem with either. I suggest buying through a dealer if you're going to drop 800 on something.


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Just so that I’m clear on what your saying... your dealer is suggesting that manufacturers ( like Hoyt) are deliberately sending lower quality products to Lancaster because Lancaster do a lot of ”not in person” sales and can get away with selling the lower quality product?

If this is the case they must send all the same low quality to the European distributors as well (As I have seen some real crap from JVD) Presumably they just hand select the best stuff (increasing their costs of managing multiple stock management processes) to the smaller stores.

Really? It’s not credible. And possibly illegal. That would be the last purchase I made in that store.

If someone can prove the allegation I’ll take it back and also never buy another Hoyt product.

Stretch


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Skeptix_907 said:


> I would never buy expensive flagship limbs from Lancaster. I know they generally have a good reputation, but the local dealer I buy from has some not great things to say about the quality of the product these companies give to Lancaster to sell - everything from arrows to limbs.
> 
> I've bought two sets of XL Velos through the dealer and have not seen a single problem with either. I suggest buying through a dealer if you're going to drop 800 on something.


Your dealer of course has no interest in promoting that nonsense. I also seem to recall reading that the courts have upheld defamation, even by innuendo, via social media. The fact that a recent administration has turned defamation into a National sport notwithstanding.


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## Skeptix_907 (Jul 30, 2020)

Seattlepop said:


> Your dealer of course has no interest in promoting that nonsense. I also seem to recall reading that the courts have upheld defamation, even by innuendo, via social media. The fact that a recent administration has turned defamation into a National sport notwithstanding.


This was something he told me in private, based on his experience from customers who came to him repeatedly with defective products. This is not defamation and even if he were to say something about it publicly, it wouldn't be defamation since it's true. Just the other day I got an order from lancaster that was missing a vital component.

Not sure why you're shilling for lancaster and casting veiled legal threats against a person you've never met.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Skeptix_907 said:


> This was something he told me in private, based on his experience from customers who came to him repeatedly with defective products. This is not defamation and even if he were to say something about it publicly, it wouldn't be defamation since it's true. Just the other day I got an order from lancaster that was missing a vital component.
> 
> Not sure why you're shilling for lancaster and casting veiled legal threats against a person you've never met.


In the end it doesn't matter...I don't think anyone here believes you anyway.


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## Skeptix_907 (Jul 30, 2020)

Seattlepop said:


> In the end it doesn't matter...I don't think anyone here believes you anyway.


I've seen more than a few posts about the quality of product Lancaster sells, so I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. That's not to say you won't get good stuff on Lancaster. Chances are you will. The problem is the inconsistency.

Just in my experience I've seen that with products I've bought there. My dealer friend has seen some doozies he's told me about. Compounds with wrong poundage, delaminated recurve limbs from all manufacturers (like the guy who created this thread), limbs straight up broken with light use, but the worst by far is arrows. He spoke with a company (I won't name them) that straight up told him they only send their out-of-spec arrow batches to Lancaster. In other words, the arrows that are slightly out of weight or straightness tolerances. Apparently because this company knows that people who buy arrows from online shops instead of through a certified dealer are typically the less selective customer (their words).

I bought a sight kit and they didn't send me something that makes the whole item work. Three hundred dollars and they didn't put the primary component in the box. I've never, ever had that happen with anyone other than Lancaster. Not even overseas shops like Alternativess.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

The problem is that you aren't just condemning LAS, but every mfr of archery equipment that deals with LAS. You are stating as fact that they all have a conspiracy to ship sub-standard equipment to LAS for sale to an unknowing public. What really started as irresponsible hearsay from what I would consider a disreputable shop, became libelous (imho) when you stated "...since it's true." LAS has always stood behind the products it sells and is a major contributor to the growth of our sport. You came to the wrong place to troll Lancaster.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I'll stand behind Lancaster as they have always stood behind me...


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Lancaster is and has been a supporter of archers. Rob takes a personal interest in making things right for shooters and has for as long as I’ve known him and dealt with Lancaster. Thanks for all you do for archers and archery!


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

I’m not standing behind Lancaster because I can’t realistically shop there (import taxes etc) I just call bull when I smell bull.

Lets have a think, why might a lot of stories about broken/defective/etc kit be Lancaster purchases? Could it possibly be because .... they sell more kit than any other single shop? You know like probability and percentages? And if this arrow company rep isn’t just smoozing the local dealer to make them think they are important to him (which is pretty bad I. It’s own right) then the level of business corruption and unethical practice in your country is pretty sickening. (And hey I know the level of corruption and the lack of ethics in my country is sickening so don’t get me started).

I know a guy who knows a guy who hand builds Brady’s X10s from titanium, graphene and depleted uranium. Honest truoof guv’na.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill

Stretch


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## MarkVIIIMarc (Jan 29, 2021)

I'm a newb with archery but with some retail insight. I'm not familiar with Lancaster. Maybe they negotiate well with their suppliers and are resented because of it if Skeptix is correct. Maybe that's the deal Lancaster negotiated. 

In the business world, sometimes with speed and price you get less quality control. The meal you get from McDonalds better be palatable but the place isn't a fine steak house.

The industry I work in is furniture. We've been kicking about for 18 years and are growing so we're doing something ok. If we could charge double we'd have guys standing about sending everything not perfect back. Instead we are competing with the websites and stores that managed to get an "F" from the BBB. With us there is somewhat of a race to the best blend of total profit and customer service.


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## Lumis17 (Jun 9, 2003)

A dealer talking negative about an online shop? That just doesn't seem plausible. Next thing you know there will be dealers who talk crap about bow brands they don't carry...


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## [email protected] (Sep 19, 2007)

I feel it is necessary to provide a response to some of the comments on this thread. Lancaster Archery does not receive or negotiate to receive inferior product from a manufacturer. There are of course times when items are missing parts from a manufacturer or there are defects but we take care of all of those instances as soon as they are brought to our attention either through a warranty or by us correcting the mistake. There are also times when we do purchase a manufacturer blem product in which we can provide the consumer a savings on an otherwise properly functioning product with cosmetic blemishes. In those instances we create a totally new item number and clearly label the product as a manufacturer blem when it is offered for sale. 

We take pride in our customer service and our commitment to the sport of archery. Deception of the customer is never included in that nor will it ever be. 

Skeptix_907 if your issue has not been taken care of, please PM with the details and I will ensure that it is taken care of immediately.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

Ever since the slew of the Hoyt G3 exploding in the mid-2000's came out (I personally witnessed on in the 2005 SeaGames) I have avoided Hoyt limbs like the plague..
I had previously owned their Carbon Plus, Vector and M1 limbs which were quite good albeit a bit slow but still very stable..

I switched to Korean limbs like the Samick Athlete & Extreme, Win&Win branded PSE Elite & Xpressions, Winact and Winex and finally to the Borders CXG and HEX5-H and have never looked back..

Any future limbs I buy will likely also come from the same manufacturers above..

PS: I just noticed there are negative comments on LAS..
..I have purchased close to $20,000 of items from them for my private use over the years and have NEVER had a single problem on any of the items ..
these included risers, arrows, limbs, sights,beiter plungers/stabs, SKB cases, apparel, books, etc. etc..
....and I was finally able to visit them in October 2015 as the customer that travelled to farthest to get there--10000 miles from the Philippines!!


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I know this. Lancaster hands down has the best customer service of any company I have ever dealt with. Not just archery. They are THE Gold standard. Going to call out Skeptix as he is bashing all over on archery sites. Not sure but dude go eat a snickers before you post.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

rsarns said:


> I know this. Lancaster hands down has the best customer service of any company I have ever dealt with. Not just archery. They are THE Gold standard. Going to call out Skeptix as he is bashing all over on archery sites. Not sure but dude go eat a snickers before you post.


Yup, yup, and yup.


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