# Border archery of scotland hex 8 covert hunter release



## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

*Border Archery Hex 8 Covert Hunter Release*

Well guys the much anticipated Hex 8 limb for the Covert Hunter has been released..... ILF version coming soon 

About a week or so ago the first set of Hex 8’s to cross the pond landed on my door step and here is an unboxing and first impressions video 

These are the first Super Recurve Limbs that I know of to actually drop in weight during the draw stroke 

Incredible limbs !!!!!!!!!


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## Homey88 (Dec 10, 2013)

Great video Joe! That is a great looking bow! That thing is super quiet. Really like the paracord silencers on it. Looks like a smooth shooting bow! The dogs are getting big! It seems like yesterday they were puppies! Thanks for the video!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Homey88 said:


> Great video Joe! That is a great looking bow! That thing is super quiet. Really like the paracord silencers on it. Looks like a smooth shooting bow! The dogs are getting big! It seems like yesterday they were puppies! Thanks for the video!


Please come visit and shoot it and see the dogs my friend you live so close


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## Homey88 (Dec 10, 2013)

Joe how far are you from Lewisburg Pa?


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Homey88 said:


> Joe how far are you from Lewisburg Pa?


Less than 2 hours


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## Homey88 (Dec 10, 2013)

That not too bad. Let me check my work schedule and get back to you. That would be a lot of fun to come down.


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## balkanboy (Nov 9, 2012)

Thank you for the video Joe, 
Mine is on order for a few weeks and after seeing this now I can't wait to shoot it. 
Marko


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Homey88 said:


> That not too bad. Let me check my work schedule and get back to you. That would be a lot of fun to come down.


If ya need to crash over night your welcome 

There’s always Whitingham it’s a great shoot 

I was going to shoot the Bigfoot shoot in NJ but they moved it to a date I can’t make


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

balkanboy said:


> Thank you for the video Joe,
> Mine is on order for a few weeks and after seeing this now I can't wait to shoot it.
> Marko


It was great talking to you and I’m sure you will be pleased


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## pokynojoe (Feb 2, 2006)

Thank you for the video, I always enjoy them. I am so unfamiliar with these bows and I find them intriguing, but it begs a lot of questions. Why so stiff an arrow for the draw weight you quote in the video? is it your draw length? Or just the unconventional design that requires such a stiff arrow? Thanks in advance should you choose to reply.

Regards
Joe


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## moog5050 (Oct 23, 2012)

Sounds like a nice improvement Joe. Congrats on the new limbs.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

pokynojoe said:


> Thank you for the video, I always enjoy them. I am so unfamiliar with these bows and I find them intriguing, but it begs a lot of questions. Why so stiff an arrow for the draw weight you quote in the video? is it your draw length? Or just the unconventional design that requires such a stiff arrow? Thanks in advance should you choose to reply.
> 
> Regards
> Joe


How have you been Joe ? 

Good to hear from you 

The Hex series of limbs produce more energy per pound than a conventional design 

I used to hunt with 60 to 70 pound recurves ...... back than we thought we needed that  

I still like having more power than I need so I can now shoot a 50 pound super recurve and get the power of a 60+ pound recurve 

So effectively the bow requires a shaft spine that would be the norm for a heavier conventional rig because it’s putting out the power of a heavier conventional recurve 

Hence why they recommend shooting 10 GPP

They really like the heavier arrows 

I’m shooting 11.28 grains per pound off this rig in the mid 190’s 

When I mount them on a 17 inch riser and I work the limbs more I should come close to or over 200 FPS

That’s like 47 ft lbs of energy out of a 48 pound bow 

Thx for posting hope all is well


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

moog5050 said:


> Sounds like a nice improvement Joe. Congrats on the new limbs.


Thx Brian 

Hope all is well


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## Smokedinpa (Mar 1, 2015)

That thing chucks an arrow. What weight arrow is that?


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

Dang Joe, between the micarta Omega and these Hex 8s. If those don't motivate you to get back shooting, not sure what will, lol.

I'm a little confused. Your saying these limbs peak at a certain weight and then drop a little at full draw? If so, that's very interesting! Can't image how that would feel to draw.

Enjoyed the video Joe, good stuff! Thanks

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Smokedinpa said:


> That thing chucks an arrow. What weight arrow is that?


530 grains 

Thx for posting


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## Breathn (Jun 12, 2005)

The reaction and sound of those are best I’ve seen on a super recurve thus far . Really look dead and quiet. SIDS are always trying to push the envelope and it seems to be working well. Great video Joe


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Stub said:


> Dang Joe, between the micarta Omega and these Hex 8s. If those don't motivate you to get back shooting, not sure what will, lol.
> 
> I'm a little confused. Your saying these limbs peak at a certain weight and then drop a little at full draw? If so, that's very interesting! Can't image how that would feel to draw.
> 
> ...


Thx Stub yes it’s a good month and it’s good to be back shooting

Those shots in the video were my first shots since last summer so I’m a little rusty but the bow wanted to put arrows where I was aiming 

Been a busy year with kids and work .... I know you know and from your pic in your avatar your little girls is really growing up 

I’ve been at my kids tournaments every weekend and when I’m not working I’m getting the dogs out 

On the limbs 

Yes they actually loose almost a pound in the draw stoke ..... it’s crazy but in a good way


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Breathn said:


> The reaction and sound of those are best I’ve seen on a super recurve thus far . Really look dead and quiet. SIDS are always trying to push the envelope and it seems to be working well. Great video Joe


Thx John 

I’ve shot most of the SR limbs and all of Borders variations of the Hex and a few prototypes and these are what I believe they have been working toward


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

JParanee said:


> Thx Stub yes it’s a good month and it’s good to be back shooting
> 
> Those shots in the video were my first shots since last summer so I’m a little rusty but the bow wanted to put arrows where I was aiming
> 
> ...


That's great to hear Joe, always enjoy your archery videos 

I hear ya. One is a handful for me. Cant image what you go through lol. But seriously, that's awesome man!

Wow, that's pretty damn cool then about the limbs. I'll be honest.. My simple mind can't understand how that is even possible with a recurve lol. Definitly very impressive stuff they are developing over there. Can't wait to read and see more about them!

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Very impressive. Thanks for showing.
Dan


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Thx Stub 

Omega is on way too


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## ghoster808 (Jun 29, 2007)

Thanks for the vid Joe! Those look wicked.







Sids bows gonna end up looking like this at about the Hex 12 series lol all kidding aside those look to be state of the art


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ziad (May 23, 2013)

I just watch the vid.. those curves!

Ziad

Sent from my LON-L29 using Tapatalk


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## mrjeffro (Jul 25, 2007)

You're killing me Bud! I loved my hex 7's , really really love my 7.5's. Now this! Ugh.  

I will wait for Marco to get his bow. He will let me draw it back 

As always, thanks for taking the time to make this video.


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## Don_Parsons (Feb 9, 2018)

All I can say is awesome Joe. 

Great Video and documentary on the Hex's 8 review. 

I wonder how the limbs would work up here in North West Canada at -35/ -38c. LOL just kidding. 

Deffinatly indoors when those temperatures role threw. 

Western Canada Don


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## Ernie80 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hello Joe

Great video of an outstanding limb.
Can you please show a picture of Hex7, Hex7.5 and Hex8 side by side?

Greetings
Ernie


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

HI Joe, another nice video, good job. Dogs are looking good and happy. Limbs look awesome.


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

Another home run by the folks at Border, thanks for the vid JP.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

ghoster808 said:


> Thanks for the vid Joe! Those look wicked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thx for posting and those limbs look sick


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Ernie80 said:


> Hello Joe
> 
> Great video of an outstanding limb.
> Can you please show a picture of Hex7, Hex7.5 and Hex8 side by side?
> ...


Thx All 

I will get a shot of all of the next to each other hopefully over the weekend


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## Belicoso (Aug 22, 2006)

How do the Superrecurves respond to pressure shift on grip and string(vertical)?
Never shot any of those but I wonder if they are finicky in this area do to the large radius?


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey Joe, Nice vid, the Sids are killing me. Here's a question no one else as asked. Do you live in a bad neighborhood? LOL.

Bowmania


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Bowmania said:


> Hey Joe, Nice vid, the Sids are killing me. Here's a question no one else as asked. Do you live in a bad neighborhood? LOL.
> 
> Bowmania



No I just always carry a gun and knife


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Belicoso said:


> How do the Superrecurves respond to pressure shift on grip and string(vertical)?
> Never shot any of those but I wonder if they are finicky in this area do to the large radius?


I have found that grip is important and for me if I palm the grip I can effect things 

With that said I also shoot a small fixed crawl with no issues


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## BassBoysLLP (Mar 12, 2011)

Great video. Looks like I'll be placing another order. Any word on lead times?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

BassBoysLLP said:


> Great video. Looks like I'll be placing another order. Any word on lead times?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I’m not sure but I would think a few months

Thx for the post


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## BassBoysLLP (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks. Sounds like things have been hectic over there. Computers were down for a whopping 5 days. I'll post the lead time once I hear back from Duncan or Ann. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## moog5050 (Oct 23, 2012)

BassBoysLLP said:


> Thanks. Sounds like things have been hectic over there. Computers were down for a whopping 5 days. I'll post the lead time once I hear back from Duncan or Ann.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


You couldn't resist shawn! lol


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## BassBoysLLP (Mar 12, 2011)

moog5050 said:


> You couldn't resist shawn! lol


Take my money! lol

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## balkanboy (Nov 9, 2012)

mrjeffro said:


> You're killing me Bud! I loved my hex 7's , really really love my 7.5's. Now this! Ugh.
> 
> I will wait for Marco to get his bow. He will let me draw it back
> 
> As always, thanks for taking the time to make this video.


As soon as it comes you can count on it:wink:

Marko


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## balkanboy (Nov 9, 2012)

Last time I spoke to Sid, he told me that the lead times are 14-16 weeks, he also did warn me that it might take few says to get a email response since they have a lot of requests.
He also told me that HEX8 should produce about 1.23 feet/lbs of kinetic energy per pound of draw weight, which is massive compared to 0.9 feet/lbs that you can expect from conventional limb design.
So based on that my 50# HEX8 should produce same amount of KE as 68# conventional limbs which is amazing.

Once I get it I will put it on the draw board and publish results

Marko


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## BassBoysLLP (Mar 12, 2011)

balkanboy said:


> Last time I spoke to Sid, he told me that the lead times are 14-16 weeks, he also did warn me that it might take few says to get a email response since they have a lot of requests.
> He also told me that HEX8 should produce about 1.23 feet/lbs of kinetic energy per pound of draw weight, which is massive compared to 0.9 feet/lbs that you can expect from conventional limb design.
> So based on that my 50# HEX8 should produce same amount of KE as 68# conventional limbs which is amazing.
> 
> ...


Thank you Marko. Looks like another race against the annual summer shutdown. lol. Fingers crossed. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## balkanboy (Nov 9, 2012)

You are welcome Sir


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## MrSinister (Jan 23, 2003)

You didn't get to talking about energy output how do they come in there. Your arrows are likely a little more heavy so I wasn't going to say are they faster but in terms of energy output is there any improvement there compared to your previous.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

MrSinister said:


> You didn't get to talking about energy output how do they come in there. Your arrows are likely a little more heavy so I wasn't going to say are they faster but in terms of energy output is there any improvement there compared to your previous.


I’m getting slightly higher speeds per GPP so energy is up 

For me the 7’s and the 75’s had plenty of juice I’m just addicted to the feel of the SR’s and the 8 is the smoothest yet 

Once I get a final tune I will get some numbers but like mentioned I’m pushing over 11 gpp into the 190’s


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## balkanboy (Nov 9, 2012)

If i remember correctly HEX7.5 was at about 1.19 feet/lbs KE per pound of draw weight, which goes in line with HEX8 being slight improvement with 1.23.
Marko


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## xxRobinhoodxx (Jan 19, 2015)

Other folks are also saying that the Max 5’s are dropping weight closer to anchor as well. Uukha limbs are also looking nice as well. Seems like these SR limbs from all makes are really beginning to take off! Nice set of limbs Joe! They look nice brother!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Marko


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Joe, how does the 8 feel compared to the 7.5s? About the same jump going from conventional to hex 6 or 6s to 7.5s?


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

There has never been a limb that we know of that has letoff.
All other super recurves all gain weight throughout there draw. Not at the 2lbs expected. Peak weight is at full draw with these other limbs.
With the hex8. Peak weight might not be at full draw.
Ive not heard of one breaking the 1lb gain per inch yet


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Chris Hill said:


> Joe, how does the 8 feel compared to the 7.5s? About the same jump going from conventional to hex 6 or 6s to 7.5s?


Hi Chris 

The jump from the 6’s to the 7’s was huge in the feel department 

The 7’s to the 7.5’s even though the 7.5’s performance was better they both had a similar feel 

The 8’s have a similar feel to the 7.5’s but just emphasize as in more of a good thing 

Add the negative effect as in actually loosing weight and it’s a pretty dramatic feel as in difference 

As you know most people always said that the 7 and 7.5 felt like they lost weight as you pulled 

In reality we know that they were not loosing weight 

The illusion was caused my the smoothness and the very low weight gain on the back end compared to a conventional limb

The 8’s really are losing weight so the illusion is not an illusion any more


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Thanks Joe, they sound like a nice improvement. Hope to try someday.


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## strugglesticks (Dec 26, 2017)

Wow those are wild. Thanks for the review. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I now have to think if I want to sell my Hex 7.5H limbs. The difference between the Hex 7 to Hex 7.5 was noticeable. I will be interested to see how others feel abut the 7.5 vs 8 and their thoughts on the cost of new limbs


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## playerb (Oct 21, 2015)

Fantastic video as always. 

I was planning on waiting for the ilf hex 8s and getting myself a tempest setup to compliment my hex 7.5 ch. but after seeing these I’m not so sure I shouldn’t just get some bolt down hex 8s. 

Any idea if the ilf will still be close to a generation behind the boltdowns? I know the ilf hex 7.5 are more compatible to the bolt down hex 7s.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

playerb said:


> Fantastic video as always.
> 
> I was planning on waiting for the ilf hex 8s and getting myself a tempest setup to compliment my hex 7.5 ch. but after seeing these I’m not so sure I shouldn’t just get some bolt down hex 8s.
> 
> Any idea if the ilf will still be close to a generation behind the boltdowns? I know the ilf hex 7.5 are more compatible to the bolt down hex 7s.


Thx Player for the kind words 

I would think the bolt down version is always going to have a tad bit of an advantage but I do like my Tempest very much


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## rhust (Oct 8, 2002)

Great job on the video.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

rhust said:


> Great job on the video.


Thank you


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Sid has been tweaking them for some time and has been trying to shoot them every weekend. I have to give the shop a lot of credit for all of the R&D that went into these.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Bill 2311 said:


> Sid has been tweaking them for some time and has been trying to shoot them every weekend. I have to give the shop a lot of credit for all of the R&D that went into these.


Indeed...this is how an email Sid Sr sent me back in early Sept. of 2017 started out....

*"Well we got the HEX8-T6 out and the changes worked but not entirely as we imagined but what we did not see was..."*

"T6" was to mean "Test Build #6" and if I recall properly?...The Hex8 limb design was finalized in early Jan. 2018 in the form of..."HEX8-T14"

Borders had a goal in mind...they worked towards both developing & testing and?...achieved that Goal in the form of Hex8 series limbs.

Congratulations too Border Bows!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Bill as mentioned these I believe are the last Trial ...Trial 18 

Very special too me


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Very cool Joe!...and buddy?...those limbs SOUND Awesome!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

JINKSTER said:


> Very cool Joe!...and buddy?...those limbs SOUND Awesome!


Thanks Bill I really like them 

I have another set ordered in camo a bit heavier for my 17 inch riser 

I think these will set the mark for a good long while


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## BassBoysLLP (Mar 12, 2011)

Happy for you Joe. And like usual, a touch jealous.  Keep up the good work on the videos. Love your content. 

My biggest head scratcher right now is which draw weight I want to specify with the extra 5% in efficiency. I usually stick with 50 lbs +/- 2 lbs and I have a feeling I'm on the edge of 300/340 spine at my draw weight. May have to get a couple sets. lol. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> Thanks Bill I really like them
> 
> I have another set ordered in camo a bit heavier for my 17 inch riser
> 
> I think these will set the mark for a good long while


If I didn't just contract out the remodeling of both bathrooms in my house and a new tongue & groove cypress ceiling for my back porch?...I'd of had a set on order but I guess my 7.5's will hafta do for awhile longer.

Poor me. LOL!


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## BassBoysLLP (Mar 12, 2011)

JINKSTER said:


> If I didn't just contract out the remodeling of both bathrooms in my house and a new tongue & groove cypress ceiling for my back porch?...I'd of had a set on order but I guess my 7.5's will hafta do for awhile longer.
> 
> Poor me. LOL!


That is a shame. I like your critical analysis. 

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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

JINKSTER said:


> If I didn't just contract out the remodeling of both bathrooms in my house and a new tongue & groove cypress ceiling for my back porch?...I'd of had a set on order but I guess my 7.5's will hafta do for awhile longer.
> 
> Poor me. LOL!


Knowing you Bill you will find a way


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

BassBoysLLP said:


> Happy for you Joe. And like usual, a touch jealous.  Keep up the good work on the videos. Love your content.
> 
> My biggest head scratcher right now is which draw weight I want to specify with the extra 5% in efficiency. I usually stick with 50 lbs +/- 2 lbs and I have a feeling I'm on the edge of 300/340 spine at my draw weight. May have to get a couple sets. lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I don’t think I’m getting weaker at least not in the gym but I keep going lower in weight on my bows that’s for sure 

Last year I planned on hunting with 50 the year before a tad higher 

This year I’ll be dropping down to 48 but not giving up anything in power


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## BassBoysLLP (Mar 12, 2011)

JParanee said:


> I don’t think I’m getting weaker at least not in the gym but I keep going lower in weight on my bows that’s for sure
> 
> Last year I planned on hunting with 50 the year before a tad higher
> 
> This year I’ll be dropping down to 48 but not giving up anything in power


That is solid advice. Your tune point on the Hex 8s has me considering something around 48. Otherwise, I'm looking at longer 300 spine if I go over 50.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

As you know these bows will work with many spines 

I’m currently working with a 400 again but it’s weak and I can’t won’t shorten it 

I need longer 340’s than I currently have which is fine with me 

In the video I was shoot9ng 330’s that time perfect cut to 29 1/4 on my 17 inch with hex 7.5’s 

I’m sure they would tune perfect on my 17 with the 8’s but I have them on my 19 and they are dead nuts to a tad stiff .... I prefer slightly weak on my bareshaft 

Here’s one of my favorite pics that show how these bows can be shot with limited space 

This was the 7’s so the 8’s are even a shorter working envelope


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## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

Great video and even the auto tracking on the iPhone X is pretty amazing!

Really impressed by the quietness. Kudos to Border, they are really pushing the envelope and changing archery expectations as we know it.

Losing poundage on a recurve? That's crazy talk lol


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Daniel L said:


> Great video and even the auto tracking on the iPhone X is pretty amazing!
> 
> Really impressed by the quietness. Kudos to Border, they are really pushing the envelope and changing archery expectations as we know it.
> 
> Losing poundage on a recurve? That's crazy talk lol


Thank you 

The bow is wild 

Yes I can’t believe I didn’t break out the larger camera but opted to use an iPhone X amd an Osmo 

I have a Movi on order for the X als0 .....it’s amazing what a cell phone on a stabilizer can do


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## BassBoysLLP (Mar 12, 2011)

They work with many spines but you still need to balance FOC and standardization of offerings. Hence the edges I referenced. I'm expecting I'll be able to fix everything with more brass and a higher FOC. Over 11 gpp, I prefer FOC over anything else. My previous post wasn't implying that these limbs only work for a single configuration. I've shot my other hex limbs from weaker spines. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Hunter Dave (Jul 17, 2007)

Joe, assuming that you have done some chronograph testing in order to calculate KE, can you share some actual speed numbers with us?


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

BassBoysLLP said:


> They work with many spines but you still need to balance FOC and standardization of offerings. Hence the edges I referenced. I'm expecting I'll be able to fix everything with more brass and a higher FOC. Over 11 gpp, I prefer FOC over anything else. My previous post wasn't implying that these limbs only work for a single configuration. I've shot my other hex limbs from weaker spines.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I know that buddy I was just going through some of my tuning stuff with you  

I always tume for 225 up front 

I like that weight and foc 

I can get there a number of ways 

A 100 grain insert and a 125 grain head which there are so many of 

Or a 30 grain insert and a 190 Simmons head 

I too like a bit of FOC


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Hunter Dave said:


> Joe, assuming that you have done some chronograph testing in order to calculate KE, can you share some actual speed numbers with us?


Hi Dave 

I don’t have my final tune but I did shoot it through my chrono a few times with 11+ GPP and was mid 190’s 

I’m sure if I mounted them on my 17 I’d get them over 200


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

BassBoysLLP said:


> That is a shame. I like your critical analysis.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I thank you for that...Lord knows I did my best to "Try to Share & Convey" what it was I was experiencing. 



JParanee said:


> Knowing you Bill you will find a way


To be honest Joe?...I'm actually a little torn on this one and for a number of reasons...

1. Is Sid Sr was kind enough to put some Celtic Knot/High Cross graphics on my Hex7.5 limbs and then?...my buddy Aydar (cubfx) made me a pocket quiver to match...










2. And this rig was my first..."Truly Custom Ordered For Me Border CH"










3. Along with the sentiment of reasons #1 and #2 above?....it was you Joe who turned me from several years of railing hard against Borders too Liking Them and Loving their Bows.

4. Yesterday?...officially marked my Hex7.5 Covert Hunters 1 year anniversary...and that's saying a mouthful for an archer who over more than the previous several years ever showed up too local club shoots with the same bow twice! LOL!...and now I get to hear things like..."Yep...he brought his Covert Hunter again.".....and still get to hear things like..."Man that bow is fast!...what did you say it's DW is?"...and?...."Man that bow is quiet shooting!...how heavy are your arrows?"

So even if I did manage to find the money for a set of new Hex8's?....(as cool as it would be to experience them)...I'd be hard pressed to take an allen key too my beloved 7.5's. 

Though I would if I could if for nothing else than to help support the Sid's ongoing efforts. 

Now rock those Hex8's Joe and I know you will!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I always love your writing Bill there is so much of your passion in it.

I don’t blame you one bit the 7.5’s are Barn Burners for sure 

I’m just a hex addict  

There are 5 more sets mounted on bows ....ugh in a good way


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Wow Joe, looks like you have a good start for a Border store.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Chris Hill said:


> Wow Joe, looks like you have a good start for a Border store.


Do to all of my CH limbs being a different pin size than prouduction I’m afraid that all of those limbs will stay with my two CH Risers till my kids sell off my bow collection 

Someone will get a very cool collection of proto and trial limbs


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Nice video as always Joe.

Think you might be in trouble with those limbs, all your tourney buddies will insist you shoot in Compound Div lol


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Stephen Morley said:


> Nice video as always Joe.
> 
> Think you might be in trouble with those limbs, all your tourney buddies will insist you shoot in Compound Div lol


Thx Steve 

They are all very excepting


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

My first Covert Hunter arrived this past Saturday. It has been fun setting it up and finding the proper ammunition. My bow was purchased used and is [email protected]". A friend commented that I can't get everything out of the bow that it was designed for at my draw length which is 29 1/2 to 30". But looking at the draw force curves I am either not thinking about it correctly or maybe I am. My thought is that there actually is very little to be gained once the draw is an inch or two from maximum on the Hex7.5 and really nothing to be gained on the Hex8 s.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi Brad 

What length bow are you shooting ?

Power stroke is everything with that said I’m sure you are working the limbs enough to get plenty of power


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Brad Lehmann said:


> My first Covert Hunter arrived this past Saturday. It has been fun setting it up and finding the proper ammunition. My bow was purchased used and is [email protected]". A friend commented that I can't get everything out of the bow that it was designed for at my draw length which is 29 1/2 to 30". But looking at the draw force curves I am either not thinking about it correctly or maybe I am. My thought is that there actually is very little to be gained once the draw is an inch or two from maximum on the Hex7.5 and really nothing to be gained on the Hex8 s.


The difference is when you compair a 50lbs bow that is gaining 2.5lbs per inch in those last few inches. And 2.25lbs past 28" the final draw weight at 31" can be quite different even though both are marked at the same weight at 28".

For example 3" past 28" is 31". So 3" × 2.25lbs is 6.75lbs gained over the 28"

While at 0.7lbs and maybe 1lbs at that last inch. Would be a 2.4lbs gain.

This is why holding weight on your fingers is a critical number to have writen on your bow.
Conventionally, these bows dont add up like your used to.

But. Smoothness is KING for storing energy.
Lets have a look.
[email protected], (50+2.25) [email protected], (52.25+ 2.25) [email protected]" = 156.75 units of energy in 2" of extra draw (50+52.25+54.5)
If we take the same holding weight at 30" 
54.5 and work it backwards on a smoother bow.
54.5 @ 30", (54.5-1) [email protected], (53.5- 0.7) [email protected]". Comes to 160.8 units of energy...

Thats just the back end of the draw.
The front end has similar gains.

But having another inch of draw adds more and more to this equation.

What alot of guys have said is that the smoothness helps with expansion. Alot of guys are adding 1/2" of thier DL.
But that does depend on your form to begin with.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I do draw longer by a tad on my hex bows


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

I think that I am getting better expansion with this bow. After reading the answer to my question, but not having fully digested the information, I am more interested in working backwards because the bow is marked [email protected] and I can't get to 31. My mental calculation prior to purchasing the bow was that, for me, the bow would be roughly a 47 pound bow. I will have to get my head wrapped around this units of energy math and it will take a little while as I am smart but dense. However the numbers fall, this is one fantastic bow for the weight that I am pulling. Which brings up another question, why mark the bow at 31" to begin with? Are they marked for the original owner's draw length?


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Brad the answer is yes 

Who ever ordered the bow requested a certain weight at his draw length 

What length bow do you have ?


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

I've mentioned this on another thread. Oly archers pull about 1/4 inch through the clicker. I don't believe I used the .7 figure that Sid mention above.

A conventional bow gains 2.5 in that last inch. That's 40 ounces. 1/4 of that figure if 10 oz to pull through the clicker.

On the Border and using the 0.7 pound in the last inch equals 11.2 oz. 1/4 of that to pull through the clicker is a little under 3 ounces.

I struggle with back tension - not so much with Hex 7.5's.

Bowmania


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

My bow is a 66" bow. I think what I will do is go put the thing on my drawboard in the morning and plot a graph through the 31". Then I can see exactly what is going on as I am a hands on,eyes on, type of guy. The fog in my brain is starting to clear and I think that I understand but seeing the scale and the inch markers as I extend the bow will turn the light bulb on for me.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

The bows a bit long for you but most increase their draw with these bows a bit 

I hunted to try them 2 seasons ago with a prototype set of longs on a 17 which was on the outside of my perfect length and I got plenty of power 

To the shoulder on this one 





Complimentary puppy pic of my babies first tracking detail


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

Yessir, looks like plenty of arrow penetrated. 

I have a question about the energy storage as given in the example above. Why are the three numbers added together to come up with units of energy from 28" to 31"? Either you have the bow drawn to 28 or 31 or some point in between. Simply taking the holding weight at 30" and working backwards on the smoother bow, the final number will be higher than the conventional recurve because you are deducting 1 pound per inch vs 2.25 per in on the conventional bow. I haven't pulled out a calculator and checked the percentage difference as that is not really what I am interested in. I suppose if I rephrased the question it would be this: what is the maximum power developed by my bow at 31" and what is it at 29 1/2" Looking at the above example it is clear to see that my Covert Hunter will have more power at 29 1/2" than a more conventional bow will that has the same draw weight at 31". This really is reinforcing my initial thoughts that as long as I have the bow drawn to a point close to the maximum draw, I'm not losing much of the power developed by the bow.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Brad Lehmann said:


> Yessir, looks like plenty of arrow penetrated.
> 
> I have a question about the energy storage as given in the example above. Why are the three numbers added together to come up with units of energy from 28" to 31"? Either you have the bow drawn to 28 or 31 or some point in between. Simply taking the holding weight at 30" and working backwards on the smoother bow, the final number will be higher than the conventional recurve because you are deducting 1 pound per inch vs 2.25 per in on the conventional bow. I haven't pulled out a calculator and checked the percentage difference as that is not really what I am interested in. I suppose if I rephrased the question it would be this: what is the maximum power developed by my bow at 31" and what is it at 29 1/2" Looking at the above example it is clear to see that my Covert Hunter will have more power at 29 1/2" than a more conventional bow will that has the same draw weight at 31". This really is reinforcing my initial thoughts that as long as I have the bow drawn to a point close to the maximum draw, I'm not losing much of the power developed by the bow.


Ok. Lets jump to a different way of looking at it.
Conventional designs have a bulging outward preload portion to the DFC. Then a bulging inward portion that leads on to stack.
The two are approx equal in size. So the bulge ourward negates the inward bulge creating a conceptial straight line.
The change over point on most recurves is around 20". Which corresponds with the moment the Y of the string loop lifts off the limb, turning it into a half drawn longbow at this point.

So. The trick with the hex limbs has been increasing this preload bulge in both depth and length. Adding hugely to the stored energy. If you look at the DFC you will see its ALL bulge.
If you look at the smoothness graph. You will see where the weight gain per inch starts to climb. Meaning that is where the DFC changes from bulging outwards to inwards.

So any draw where you are using that smoothness is good.

There is no wrong... there is only mire right.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Ps. There is an irony in "post quick reply" on topics like this


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

Borderbows said:


> Ok. Lets jump to a different way of looking at it.
> Conventional designs have a bulging outward preload portion to the DFC. Then a bulging inward portion that leads on to stack.
> The two are approx equal in size. So the bulge ourward negates the inward bulge creating a conceptial straight line.
> The change over point on most recurves is around 20". Which corresponds with the moment the Y of the string loop lifts off the limb, turning it into a half drawn longbow at this point.
> ...



Thank you for the response. Yes on the irony of quick reply as this is like a conversation in slow motion. I do understand the concept that unfolding the curve for a greater portion of the draw will result in a smoother draw as perceived by the archer. Since I don't have the chart printed and in front of me, at what point on the chart has the curve unfolded fully? I think that I can tell but need a verification. I'm sure that I will have looked at the chart prior to receiving a quick response. LOL I am sorry if I am getting this thread off track as it is supposed to be about Hex 8 and not an educational thread.


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

My mind is like a sponge. Now I would like to see a draw force curve chart of the varying lengths of limbs of all the same model of limb. And also a definition of inch increments and what the left hand scale is in reference to on that other vague chart.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Brad Lehmann said:


> Thank you for the response. Yes on the irony of quick reply as this is like a conversation in slow motion. I do understand the concept that unfolding the curve for a greater portion of the draw will result in a smoother draw as perceived by the archer. Since I don't have the chart printed and in front of me, at what point on the chart has the curve unfolded fully? I think that I can tell but need a verification. I'm sure that I will have looked at the chart prior to receiving a quick response. LOL I am sorry if I am getting this thread off track as it is supposed to be about Hex 8 and not an educational thread.


No worries about off track my friend

Cool stuff


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## ember (Jul 23, 2004)

Using the term "not rubberbandy" although crude waylaid immediate concerns I had with gains on the recurve. It was exactly what I was thinking on the back end of the draw. 
Great complete descriptive video review.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

[/QUOTE]

The inch increment graph is a great graph that shows the incremental weight gain per inch.

In short. It shows how where in the draw things happen.
So initial preload. Your looking for a good healthy high value. This shows a steep initial weight gain. Such as 7 or 8lbs in that first inch
As that initial preload works off, the pounds gained drop to 2 and 3lbs gained per inch untill you hit the smoothest point of the draw.
Which is the dip. The lowest point. As you can see the hex7.5 managed a sub half pound gain. At around 27" while the hex8 is -0.4lbs per inch at its smoothest at about 27.5

The difference in the bows is that one climbs in draw weight and one drops in draw weight. In the later stages of the draw.

These two graphs show us the overview of the DFC and the direct detail the pounds gained per inch.

Hope that helps


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

That makes total sense. In fact I think that now I can go weigh my bow to gather the data and then build my own graph. I just returned from town where I had taken the bow to let a friend with several more decades of experience shoot it. Unfortunately, he has about a 28" draw and probably was just getting into the near 1 pound per inch portion of the curve. He did comment on the heavy preload and that at the end of his draw it almost had the sensation of a compound bow cam breaking over. This is getting fun!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

ember said:


> Using the term "not rubberbandy" although crude waylaid immediate concerns I had with gains on the recurve. It was exactly what I was thinking on the back end of the draw.
> Great complete descriptive video review.


Thank you .... I try


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Brad Lehmann said:


> That makes total sense. In fact I think that now I can go weigh my bow to gather the data and then build my own graph. I just returned from town where I had taken the bow to let a friend with several more decades of experience shoot it. Unfortunately, he has about a 28" draw and probably was just getting into the near 1 pound per inch portion of the curve. He did comment on the heavy preload and that at the end of his draw it almost had the sensation of a compound bow cam breaking over. This is getting fun!


It is a blast handing them to people that have never shot them and seeing their faces


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

I weighed my bow yesterday from 11" to 31". I'm not liking the data that I see as it is not making much sense. For example, it is showing flat spots between 25 and 27 inches. When I finished the scale was reading 54 pounds on a bow marked 49 pounds. Checked the draw with a tape measure to the back of the bow and my inch scale on the draw board is right on the money. So I grabbed a 50# sack of cattle feed and built a rope sling so that I could hang it. I brought the bag to the house and weighed it on my old doctor's office Healthometer scale and got 51# so I trust that number. Took the bag back to the shop and weighed it with the Hansen scale off of the drawboard and came up with 54 1/2 pounds. Doing the math, I know that my drawboard scale shows a little over 6% heavy at the top end, but who knows where it is on the bottom end? So this morning I order a new tension scale and I will do it all again. 
I will keep the Hansen scale for weighing deer as I want them to show more that what they really weigh. 

Anyway, while I am waiting for the new scale I will build my spreadsheet in Excel and learn once again how to build graphs. I sure am glad that I have archery to play with in my retirement years as it beats pushing a vacuum cleaner or mop while the wife is at work. More later.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I’ll have to let Sid answer that 

He will be along shortly


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## heuerlover (Jun 17, 2017)

Are there already informations available regarding speed?
A comparison starting from HEX6 to HEX8 would be awesome and help potential customers to come to a clue.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Hex 6 was the ILF version and correlates
Of Hex 7 on Covert Hunter. Current ILF is Hex 6.6 and correlates to Hex 7.5 on Covert Hunter. New Hex 8 will be Hex 6.9 on ILF. 
Not sure when they will be available. Maybe taking orders now, but I cannot say for sure. But I know they are coming.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Bill 2311 said:


> Hex 6 was the ILF version and correlates
> Of Hex 7 on Covert Hunter. Current ILF is Hex 6.6 and correlates to Hex 7.5 on Covert Hunter. New Hex 8 will be Hex 6.9 on ILF.
> Not sure when they will be available. Maybe taking orders now, but I cannot say for sure. But I know they are coming.


I think you're a long ways from correct there Bill as I've owned Hex7 and Hex7.5 ILF limbs and they have considerably more hook than anything that starts with a "6".


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## Don_Parsons (Feb 9, 2018)

Oh boy, now I find out that I can choose a few ILF Border limbs I see. LOL. 

I might make the call once I get things sorted with the frugal after market limbs for now. 

I have a sneeking suspicion that once a person chooses quality limbs that there's no going back. 

Don


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Don_Parsons said:


> Oh boy, now I find out that I can choose a few ILF Border limbs I see. LOL.
> 
> I might make the call once I get things sorted with the frugal after market limbs for now.
> 
> ...


This is correct.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

JINKSTER said:


> I think you're a long ways from correct there Bill as I've owned Hex7 and Hex7.5 ILF limbs and they have considerably more hook than anything that starts with a "6".


In ILF or CH?


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Bill 2311 said:


> In ILF or CH?


I've owned both 7 & 7.5 in both ILF and CH.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Jinks is correct 

There was Ilf 6’s 

Ilf 6.5’s 

Bolt down 7’s only on CH 

Ilf 7’s 

Bolt down 7.5’s for CH

Ilf 7.5’s 

Now bolt down 8’s for CH 

Ilf 8’s coming soon


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