# Can't get my bow to Paper Tune



## Kenny8906 (Sep 27, 2005)

Guy's I have a problem getting by bow to paper tune. I am shooting a hoyt VTEC @ 70lbs w/ a 27" carbon express CX Edge arrow. The arrow is a 350 spine which is right on the line for on 27" & 70lbs. It seems as if no matter what adjustments I make I'm keep getting a right & high tear. Do you think it is the spine of the arrow cause the problem? I've never had problems before until I got these arrows.


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## beenfarr (Feb 13, 2006)

Have you tried walk back tuning? Some people think paper tuning is over rated. Check out Nuts and Bolts' article on walkback tuning. If you do a search, you should find it.

Good luck,
Ben


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## Elanus axillaris (Mar 17, 2006)

*info*

8 questions.
are you using fletched or unfletched shafts for the tune?
what point weight are you using?
Are you using a release?
what type of rest are you using?
have you checked for contact issues?
What were you old arrows?
How bad is the tear?
What distances are you tuning at?


It could be a spine issue 
It could be a contact issue 
it could be a timming / tuning issue
It could be a setup issue


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

hunter5425 said:


> 8 questions.
> are you using fletched or unfletched shafts for the tune?
> what point weight are you using?
> Are you using a release?
> ...


These are the things you have to look for. I would back off the poundage a little and then check for contact. If you don't see any. I would bare shaft tune and work with the timing. I am not a real fan of paper tuning. Bare shafting is the best. Paper tuning will only tell if the bow is hitting correctly at one place. I would then do a walk back.


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## MR.B (Jan 14, 2006)

but to answer your ? yes your border line shafts could cause a left tear,but i would definatly check your idler lean.


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

MR.B said:


> but to answer your ? yes your border line shafts could cause a left tear,but i would definatly check your idler lean.


I was thinking that myself.....


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## Kenny8906 (Sep 27, 2005)

Ok, guys I have found a copy of Eastons Tuning manual and have tried the bare shaft tuning method. I shoot 3 fletched shafts all touch each other. Then shot 2 bare shafts, those two touch and are about 6" to 7" directly to the left of the fletched shafts. The easton tuning manual states the arrows spine is too stiff if this is the case. My limbs are cranked all the way down, so i can get any more weight. The cams are perfect in sync. and in draw stop timing. Brace height & ATA are spec. to the factory. 

I then try w/ a less stiff arrows. (GT 3555 w/ 100 gr. tip @ 27") These arrows do the exact same thing. I was expecting these bare shafts to group the right of the fletched shafts, being weak spined. 

What do I do? I do have some uncut Carbon Express CX Edge 250's that are just spined under the 350's. Please give me some ideas.

Thanks

Hoyt VTEC cam 1/2 w/ 29" draw
Draw weight 70lbs
Carbon Express CX Edge 350 27.5" 100 gr field tip
Using a release
bare shaft tuning at 15 yds.


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## Twolf (Apr 4, 2006)

I would try moving your rest to the left.


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## highdeehoo (Apr 10, 2005)

*Well*

I thought you chased the fletched arrows. So I would move rest to the right if they are hitting to the left.This would explain a tail right tear in the paper.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Let's tackle this one step at a time.*



Kenny8906 said:


> Ok, guys I have found a copy of Eastons Tuning manual and have tried the bare shaft tuning method. I shoot 3 fletched shafts all touch each other. Then shot 2 bare shafts, those two touch and are about 6" to 7" directly to the left of the fletched shafts. The easton tuning manual states the arrows spine is too stiff if this is the case. My limbs are cranked all the way down, so i can get any more weight. The cams are perfect in sync. and in draw stop timing. Brace height & ATA are spec. to the factory.
> 
> I then try w/ a less stiff arrows. (GT 3555 w/ 100 gr. tip @ 27") These arrows do the exact same thing. I was expecting these bare shafts to group the right of the fletched shafts, being weak spined.
> 
> ...


Kenny8906:

Let's start with a bareshaft.
In your garage, set up a foam target
or fill a cardboard box full of newspaper. Arrange the box so that you
are shooting through the pages of newspaper, standing up like a book.

Put a piece of tape on the box so the piece of tape is at your shoulder height. Load your bareshaft and fire into the piece of tape. The goal is to fire the bareshaft from a perfectly level starting position. The bow hand has to be at shoulder level.

You want to look like this, when you launch the bareshaft.










The arrow is starting at a perfectly level launching position.

When you fire the bareshaft, there is no steering correction because there are no fletchings.

The cardboard box target filled with pages of newspaper standing up, will preserve the angle of penetration of the bareshaft.

Check the angle of penetration of the bareshaft in the cardboard box.

If the nock is high, then raise your arrow rest.
If the nock is low, then lower your arrow rest.

Keep adjusting the arrow rest until you can launch a bareshaft from a level starting position,
and
you can have the bareshaft penetrate the cardboard box in a perfectly level position. Check the angle of penetration with a 24-inch level.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Now, check 2nd axis and 3rd axis on your sight*

Now, 
we check 2nd axis and 3rd axis on the sight.

Put your bow in a vise and hold the bow perfectly vertical.

Now, check the bubble level on your sight. The bubble should be centered.
If not, then adjust the bubble to read centered, when the bow is perfectly vertical. Check that the bow is vertical by using a carpenter's 24-inch level.

If your sight has a 3rd axis adjustment,
then here is how to check that the 3rd axis is correct.

3rd axis is simply the door swing of the threaded rod for your scope.
The scope or the ring for your pin sight should be mounted on a door hinge,
that allows you to swing the entire scope closer to you or farther away from you.

If the 3rd axis (door swing) is adjusted correctly, then at full draw,
you can aim up at the ceiling or down at the floor, and the bubble level will remain in the center, provided you keep the bow vertical 
(no left or right tilt).

So, how can we check if the bow is tilted left or right,
when we are aiming at the floor?

Hang a piece of string from the ceiling.
Put a weight on the end of the string.
The string will be perfectly vertical.

When you are at full draw with an arrow loaded
and aiming at the floor,
line up the left edge of your upper limb with the string hanging
from the ceiling.

Adjust the door swing of your sight (3rd axis) until the bubble
reads centered, when you aim at the floor at full draw,
and keep the bow vertical.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*If you are using a drop away arrow rest...*

If you are using a drop away arrow rest,
check the timing of the arrow rest.

You want the arrow rest to rise completely,
during the last 2-inches before full draw.

Spray some foot powder on the last 6-inches of the arrow shaft,
and the fletches (vanes or feathers).

Fire a fletched arrow that has been sprayed with foot powder,
into a target. Check the sprayed section of the arrow for scrape marks.

If you have scrape marks,
then you may need to have the arrow rest rise completely
during the last 1.75 inches before full draw.

You get the idea.

You may also need to rotate your nocks to get good clearance.


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## Kenny8906 (Sep 27, 2005)

*Nuts & Bolts*

Thanks for the help I will do exactly as you say, I have one question. How far do I shoot from when shooting the bare shaft into the box w/ news paper?


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

Kenny8906 said:


> Ok, guys I have found a copy of Eastons Tuning manual and have tried the bare shaft tuning method. I shoot 3 fletched shafts all touch each other. Then shot 2 bare shafts, those two touch and are about 6" to 7" directly to the left of the fletched shafts. The easton tuning manual states the arrows spine is too stiff if this is the case. My limbs are cranked all the way down, so i can get any more weight. The cams are perfect in sync. and in draw stop timing. Brace height & ATA are spec. to the factory.


Are the bare shaft arrows sticking straight into the target or are they angled? If the arrows are sticking in at an angle, then you will need to move your rest to the right. If they are sticking straight in, then it is the spine.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Doesn't take much room*



Kenny8906 said:


> Thanks for the help I will do exactly as you say, I have one question. How far do I shoot from when shooting the bare shaft into the box w/ news paper?


I do it in my garage at 10 feet.

The cardboard box with pages of newspaper (at least 8-inch bundle tied together) standing vertical preserves the angle very nicely.

You can put a few layers of cardboard in front of the newspaper, because the penetration is actually not very much.

You can see changes in the angle (up or down) of the bareshaft,
with a very small adjustment in the arrow rest vertical position.

This simulates the vertical tear information in paper tuning,
but this is easier to do, because the arrow is stuck in the target
and you can confirm level arrow flight with a carpenter's level.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*After the arrow rest vertical position is set, then centershot with walkback tuning*

After you have the bareshaft flying level,
then we set centershot (arrow rest horizontal position)
with walk back tuning.

Hang a weighted string from a nail on a target. 

Stick a round sticker on the target face so that the string splits the sticker. Use your existing 20-yd pin, step back 20-yards from the target and fire at the sticker. 

Don't worry about where the arrow hits. 

Walk straight back to 30 yds, and using the same 20-yd pin setting, 
fire an arrow at the sticker. 

Repeat at 35 yds and at 40 yds, using the 20-yd pin and firing at the sticker.

If your arrows look like this pattern " / " or “\”, 
then pick a direction and move your arrow rest 1/16th inch. 












If the pattern gets straighter (more vertical), then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction.












If the pattern gets more crooked, then adjust in the other direction.

Keep firing arrows and keep adjusting the arrow rest position until you get a vertical pattern of arrows.

Eventually, your arrows will hit in the target is a straight up and down line like this " | ". 












LOCK down the arrow rest setting. Your centershot is perfect.



But, your vertical pattern of arrows may not be hitting the string. 

The vertical pattern of arrows may be on one side of the string.
Let’s say the arrows are say 6-inches to the left of the weighted string.










Pick a direction to adjust your sight ring windage. Adjust the sight ring windage 1/16th of an inch. Repeat the test. Fire arrows at least 3 distances, and see if the vertical pattern of arrows gets closer to the string.

If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting closer to the string, then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction. If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting farther away, then adjust in the other direction.

Eventually, you will have a vertical pattern of arrows right on top of the string.

Lock down the windage and lock down the arrow rest. Windage and center shot are now perfect.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Now try paper tuning, after walk back tuning is complete*

Now, try paper tuning if you must.

You have already adjusted the arrow rest vertical position
so that the bareshaft sticks into a target perfectly level,
whenever you launch a bareshaft from a level starting position.

Now, you have completed walk back tuning,
so you know that your arrows hit the target in a straight line
whether at short distance or long distance.

So, you know that your arrow rest horizontal position is correct (centershot).

You also know that your windage is correct on your sight as well.

You have checked for fletching interference and fixed that.

You have also checked for drop away arrow rest timing,
so you know that that is not a problem any more.

You should be using a bow sling around your wrist.

If you try paper tuning now,
and you get a strange tear,
then you know that the only remaining variables
are form related
or
cam timing related (nock travel not level).

If it's a form problem,
then I would look at the bow hand position on the grip.

Do your tuning in this order,
then you have less possibilities for the cause for the strange paper tear.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

Kenny8906 said:


> Ok, guys I have found a copy of Eastons Tuning manual and have tried the bare shaft tuning method. I shoot 3 fletched shafts all touch each other. Then shot 2 bare shafts, those two touch and are about 6" to 7" directly to the left of the fletched shafts. The easton tuning manual states the arrows spine is too stiff if this is the case. My limbs are cranked all the way down, so i can get any more weight. The cams are perfect in sync. and in draw stop timing. Brace height & ATA are spec. to the factory.
> 
> I then try w/ a less stiff arrows. (GT 3555 w/ 100 gr. tip @ 27") These arrows do the exact same thing. I was expecting these bare shafts to group the right of the fletched shafts, being weak spined.
> 
> ...


Bare shaft tuning in the Easton Tuning Guide is for finger shooters. Do a search on here and find out how to bare shaft tune for a release shooter. If not PM me and I can send you my proceedure.


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