# Fat vs Skinny



## Honker-Konker (May 10, 2012)

Well shooting 2 different diameter arrows from the same rest without adjusting the rest will start you off with problems. I know from experience.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

i went back to lightspeed 3d's after shooting fat shafts the last couple years (fatboys and x ringers). since i shoot a low draw weight (49#) i have to work to get to 280 fps. going from 250 fps to 280 fps has definitely improved my 3d scores. btw, both the fat arrows and the skinny ones were well spined for my setup. i really haven't noticed that i've lost points because of the smaller diameter of the lightspeeds.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Honker-Konker said:


> Well shooting 2 different diameter arrows from the same rest without adjusting the rest will start you off with problems. I know from experience.


exactly.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

carlosii said:


> exactly.


I'm pretty sure Padgett knows how to tune. I assume he did so in this scenario.

If I remember right, Padgett was shooting Harvest Time HT4's. And based on my experience with them, that is the issue. Check my post history, I fought those stupid shafts for 3 months and couldn't get them consistent. Worst shafts I've ever owned.

Padgett, try some XXX. 


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## MrKrabs (Dec 8, 2008)

I just switched from XXX to Easton Eclipse 2412. The XXX shot pretty well out of my MR7, but just wouldn't shoot well out of my Apex 8. The 2412 I can stack in the x out to 50 yards. I think you need a hard shooting bow to break the spine of the fat shafts down enough to shoot well.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Nothing wrong with aluminum shafts...except durability and FOC in 3d configurations. But, I disagree that you need to "break down" the spine in a stiff carbon shaft for 3d. No one is "breaking down" a Triple X in 3d. Very few are even doing it for indoor.

The 300,350,400 spines in Full Bore, XJammer, HT4 and I'd assume Black Eagle too......all seem to shoot better with less point weight, cut to the rest. I know for a fact that the Full Bore's and HT4's dont act like a 350 spine....more like 400+. My theory is that this is the result of low carbon, high resin materials yielding a slow recovery rate coming off the bow.


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## MrKrabs (Dec 8, 2008)

I can buy between 2-3 dozen aluminum for what the high end carbon arrows cost so I'm not worried about the durability. I bought a dozen XXX and got 9 that I could shoot (2 cracked right off the bat and one wouldn't shoot with the others). Maybe the spine doesn't need to be broken down or whatever you want to call it on fat shafts, but the fact of the matter is they don't group as well as smaller carbons or aluminums for me. The extra diameter doesn't matter if the arrow doesn't hit where you want it to.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Krabs,

I understand where you are coming from and agree completely. If the Triple X didn't work the way I wanted it to, I was done with fat shafts and was heading back to skinnys. My experience with HT4 and Full Bores was not good. 

So, I guess the only difference is that the Triple X's worked very well for me. Maybe I'm just lucky but I don't tend to think so, I've seen comments on here about Triple X's that broke and wouldn't group but I havent seen it myself. When I started testing them this spring, I bought 2 dozen. There have been no culls (all group, only a few even required a spin of the nock) and I still have 21. The three that I've broken have all cracked at the tip and I truly equate it to a glue problem I was having and couldn't keep tips in. 

These are my first fat shafts with pin bushings and the durability over a uni-bushing has really impressed me. I feel like I've beat the snot out of them and haven't had one torn up from the back yet....just lots of pin bushings and a few very minor splinters in the outermost layer of carbon. I shot some 2512's last year that flew and grouped really well but I just didnt want to stick with the aluminum after having 7 shafts creased by other shooters in one 20 target course.

I'm glad we've both got combos that work well for us. Shoot em' up.


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## MrKrabs (Dec 8, 2008)

Exactly every bow and shooter seems to like different arrows. I tried Fatboys out of a MR7 and had terrible luck with them, but the XXX shot good out of it. The strange thing about the 2 XXX I had crack was they were stress fractures about 8-10" up the shaft. I also had 2 ruined in KY and 2 more ruined in practice rounds right before KY. Those I would expect as hard as the arrows were hit.


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## BROX (Sep 29, 2005)

I was shooting X-Ringers and I was trying to keep the weight down well in doing so I cut them really short I shot them OK but the slightest mistake was amplified do to them being to stiff.I just started shooting vaps ill see how these go


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

Dang Padge,I saw the heading of this thread"Fat vs Skinny",and was gettin all fired up for a really good discussion with pic's and you just want to talk arrows.......color me -dissapointed.LOL


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## trumankayak (Dec 28, 2011)

Skinny for me until I can find a fat shaft that will group. The problem I have with fat shafts is I havent found the combination that works for my setup. Being poor and in the middle B F E keeps Me from trying 
If I could find a 24 or 25 series shaft that finished around 325 grains and grouped at 45-50 yards, I would do backflips.
Shooting a Mathews C-4 at 28.5 and 60 lbs I have to have a light shaft just to make 280 fps. What few I've tried just didnt make the cut.
I know theres one out there and I hope I find it.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

tmorelli said:


> No one is "breaking down" a Triple X in 3d. Very few are even doing it for indoor.
> .


There is one in ASA doing it....and he shoots K45 with you!

82 pound Monster.....LOL


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

trumankayak said:


> Skinny for me until I can find a fat shaft that will group. The problem I have with fat shafts is I havent found the combination that works for my setup. Being poor and in the middle B F E keeps Me from trying
> If I could find a 24 or 25 series shaft that finished around 325 grains and grouped at 45-50 yards, I would do backflips.
> Shooting a Mathews C-4 at 28.5 and 60 lbs I have to have a light shaft just to make 280 fps. What few I've tried just didnt make the cut.
> I know theres one out there and I hope I find it.


Tried the Xcutters? Its the shaft that jumps out at me for your specs.

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Garceau said:


> There is one in ASA doing it....and he shoots K45 with you!
> 
> 82 pound Monster.....LOL


I want to know the rest of the story. Pm me who it is.

Short draw? 
Huge point?
MR8?

I don't know how you keep it under 288!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

No...28.5 to 29 inch draw..... 

His name is Cory - big ol barrel chested fella. Great guy; he was the one that had all his stuff come up missing from the airlines in Florida. He just likes shooting huge poundage out of his monster. I think his arrow is close to or over 600 grains!

Its a monster 7....not even the MR series.


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## trumankayak (Dec 28, 2011)

Tmorelli,
The x-cutter is # 1 on My try list . Wrote the specs down awhile back. Still sitting here in front of Me.
27 in w-90 gr would run about 330 ish finished. Maybe I should find some.......


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Garceau said:


> No...28.5 to 29 inch draw.....
> 
> His name is Cory - big ol barrel chested fella. Great guy; he was the one that had all his stuff come up missing from the airlines in Florida. He just likes shooting huge poundage out of his monster. I think his arrow is close to or over 600 grains!
> 
> Its a monster 7....not even the MR series.


Wow. I didn't shoot FL so I'm not familiar with the story and I haven't met him but I'll definitely notice any Monsters on the range in the future!

To make that arrow hit 600 grains, he's got to be running 250+ grains up front! If that's the case, you may be right! He's definitely "breaking it down"!

Wow. Did I say that already? I thought I had an advantage against kickouts pushing over 400 grains! That arrow is on another level! Literally, plow your way in bub. 

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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

he ended up getting his bow for the shoot - but had to borrow releases, sights etc....still dealing with that.

He shoots all of them - really nice guy, in Georgia he had the bearings come out of the cams on the monster. He has been plagued with some bad luck this year starting with all of his gear not sh owing up in florida on time.

That arrow flat out disentegrates anything it comes in contact with, especially with knock busters or pin points!...... on the sims last year he hit Andy Calloways 23 series alum and put the 27 series completely inside it, just split the alum and wrapped around it.

Stop by the Strother trailer in Metropolis - we are headed down Monday with my RV and staying the entire week.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Garceau said:


> he ended up getting his bow for the shoot - but had to borrow releases, sights etc....still dealing with that.
> 
> He shoots all of them - really nice guy, in Georgia he had the bearings come out of the cams on the monster. He has been plagued with some bad luck this year starting with all of his gear not sh owing up in florida on time.
> 
> ...


I need to meet him. Maybe I'm his lucky charm because his bad luck is at the ones I don't shoot 

I will stop by and shake your hand. We'll just be there friday, sat, sun.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

Yeh thats cory meske i think i shot against him a few times.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Amazing what happens when you actually shoot an arrow that your bow can break down isn't it....  Yes, there is such a thing as too stiff of an arrow. Cara Fernandez shoots Nano Pros.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

edgerat said:


> Amazing what happens when you actually shoot an arrow that your bow can break down isn't it....  Yes, there is such a thing as too stiff of an arrow. Cara Fernandez shoots Nano Pros.


Funny, I'm pretty sure padgett was shooting an "appropriately spined" fat shaft. Maybe he'll confirm.

Fat doesn't necessarily equal stiff. 



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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

trumankayak said:


> Skinny for me until I can find a fat shaft that will group. The problem I have with fat shafts is I havent found the combination that works for my setup. Being poor and in the middle B F E keeps Me from trying
> If I could find a 24 or 25 series shaft that finished around 325 grains and grouped at 45-50 yards, I would do backflips.
> Shooting a Mathews C-4 at 28.5 and 60 lbs I have to have a light shaft just to make 280 fps. What few I've tried just didnt make the cut.
> I know theres one out there and I hope I find it.


Easton Fatboy cut around 26" carbon to carbon with 100gr nockbusters should get you real close. You won't be 280fps but your setup will be more forgiving. 280fps breaking a shot at the wrong time is just a faster miss.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

My two fat shafts that I have shot this year are xjammers at 300 spine and harvestime redemptions at 400 spine, I shoot 100 grain nock busters out front and the xjammers are 28 inches of shaft and the harvestime shafts are 27 inch shafts. I got the xjammers first and went through that dozen pretty fast because they broke at a alarming rate, I then got a dozen harvestime redemptions and found they didn't fly right at 28 inches of shaft so I trimmed them down to 27 inches which is the same shaft length I shoot all of my hunting arrows that are also 400 spine and then I took them to the bow shop and set up the hooter shooter. I shot a few xjammers and they all shot the same bullet hole without even making the hole any bigger and then shot the redemption and couldn't believe it because it totally smoked the same stinking hole. Basically I was finding that those two different shafts were shooting the same hole time after time with different spines and lengths. My arrowflight is really sweet, my paper tears are simply perfect and up close I love the fat arrows but my problem with them is when I shoot them at longer distances and when I shoot them when I am not shooting my best. I can simply see the groups doubble in size compared to my standard arrows, funny thing is that I score the same with them out on the 3-d courses and I think the fat shafts cut more lines but the skinny ones group so much better that it comes out even in the end.

For me I feel like I have to be honest with myself and pick equipment that makes me better and since I am not a pro shooter with perfect form day in and day out I should probably shoot equipment that is forgiving and after the week I had shooting skinny arrows and simply not missing one time at the paper plate makes me take notice, I really gave the fat arrows a 100 percent chance for months and they do seem to offer some huge advantages when shooting indoors and easy shoots but when I go to really long shoots like asa shoots where the average shot is on the long side and there are plenty of shots over 40 yds it is really stressfull keeping the fat ones in the 10 ring.


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## trumankayak (Dec 28, 2011)

Padgett, My sentiments exactly. 
I would love to shoot a fat shaft. But what shafts I've setup couldnt hold the groups of a standard carbon.
Obviously the smaller diameter offers better wind resistance, so one would expect better grouping.
But with a smaller diameter shaft you have the ability to have a properly spined shaft , a greater f.o.c. , smaller fletch to shaft ratio .

My favorite 3-d arrow of all time was an ACE 400 with 100 gr pt. Shot those for years. But now im poor  

Im not a fatshaft hater. I want to shoot them but I want the best grouping arrow at 50 yds to be in my quiver.
Not almost as good.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I've been shooting gt 22s and they shoot pretty good! I am considering trying the 5575 pro hunter. They are a skinny 400 spine arrow that weighs 8.2 gpi. I'm thinking they may be more forgiving because of the weaker spine, and flatter because they weigh more ( shot at same speed as 22 s). 

GTips Tim, or hammer swers that bigger arrows always score better than skinny ones for 3D.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

He sells them though. I've always had skinny group better for me. I'm using victory 22HV they group decent but I'm not grouping as tight as GT ULP400's do.


J Whittington said:


> I've been shooting gt 22s and they shoot pretty good! I am considering trying the 5575 pro hunter. They are a skinny 400 spine arrow that weighs 8.2 gpi. I'm thinking they may be more forgiving because of the weaker spine, and flatter because they weigh more ( shot at same speed as 22 s).
> 
> GTips Tim, or hammer swers that bigger arrows always score better than skinny ones for 3D.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

I draw 27.75" and typically pull about 57# on my AlphaElites. I am running a 26.5" from nock to carbon Fatboy 400s with 120gr nockbusters in them. I had to switch to HT pin bushings because I was beating up the G-nock bushing on them. Having that extra weigh in the nose breaks them down a bit more. They still don't group as well as my VAPs or, my ACCs past about 40yds. They bare shaft paper tune out to 20yds perfectly and shoot the same exact rest setting as my ACCs but, they don't hang in as well at distance. Not sure what the deal is but, I agree with Padgett, I am not sure why they don't, they just don't.


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## trumankayak (Dec 28, 2011)

For ME shooting in the open class , My arrows need to group between 40 and 50 yards. I want the arrow that groups best at that yardage. As this is where most of My critical shots will be.I would love it to be the size of a 25,26,27 series arrow. I just have not found that combination.
Test for test tune for tune My 400 spine standard 19/64 carbons just have grouped better. It is advantageous for Me to shoot the largest diameter I can. I hope that I can find that line-cutter that will make the grade.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

The Carbon Express CXL is a very good mid-size diameter shaft that is available in 3 spines. For 3D skinny shafts generally offer no advantage and can cost a significant number of points. 

I had been telling a buddy of mine that he was giving up too many points using VAP's. This past weekend he shot FatBoys and he would have lost a minimum of 8 points if he had been shooting VAP's. This was scoring center 11's on 30 targets. Of course the arrows have to group well but if you are putting all your arrows in the 10 ring even a 23 diameter shaft will out score a tooth pick arrow.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

My hero Kent Stigall has spoken!


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Kstigall said:


> The Carbon Express CXL is a very good mid-size diameter shaft that is available in 3 spines. For 3D skinny shafts generally offer no advantage and can cost a significant number of points.
> 
> I had been telling a buddy of mine that he was giving up too many points using VAP's. This past weekend he shot FatBoys and he would have lost a minimum of 8 points if he had been shooting VAP's. This was scoring center 11's on 30 targets. Of course the arrows have to group well but if you are putting all your arrows in the 10 ring even a 23 diameter shaft will out score a tooth pick arrow.


Are the CXLs tough Kent? Nearly every carbon express arrow I have been around(haven't been around the Nanos and Medallions yet) want to snap just from looking at them. The back-stop at my house has already sacrificed a half dozen carbon express shafts  They are tempting because they are light and you can get something that will "spine" for a lot of different setups.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

J Whittington said:


> My hero Kent Stigall has spoken!


I see you had a moment of clarity.............please don't let it happen again!



edgerat said:


> Are the CXLs tough Kent? Nearly every carbon express arrow I have been around(haven't been around the Nanos and Medallions yet) want to snap just from looking at them. The back-stop at my house has already sacrificed a half dozen carbon express shafts  They are tempting because they are light and you can get something that will "spine" for a lot of different setups.


I don't have the newest model, CXL Pro. I've shot a few of the earlier models through squirrels and then dug the arrow from the tree with no injury to the shaft. Recently plunked a couple of ground hogs through the skull with no harm though the hogs might disagree. I haven't busted one that I thought shouldn't have busted. Light weight shafts can't be the most durable but I haven't lost one where the steel tip wasn't bent. If I shoot one into the iron buck I don't expect it to survive. I haven't lost one from behind while using pin nocks.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

To date, the toughest arrows I have owned were my GT Velocities, they were also the worst flying grouping pieces of poo that ever came out of the barn. That said, GT refuses to make a fat arrow with a spine anywhere near what 99% of the archery community can break down. I am shooting Fatboys but, not 100% happy with how un-tough they are.  Thank you for your answer.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

edgerat said:


> To date, the toughest arrows I have owned were my GT Velocities, they were also the worst flying grouping pieces of poo that ever came out of the barn. That said, GT refuses to make a fat arrow with a spine anywhere near what 99% of the archery community can break down. I am shooting Fatboys but, not 100% happy with how un-tough they are.  Thank you for your answer.


None of that makes sense. The velocities are a thin walled shaft not known for extreme durability but well known for being good shooting shafts.

Gold tip doesn't need or want to make light spined fat shafts because it would be counterproductive. Inconsistencies in shaft construction show and magnify themselves based on percentage of yield....hence the % of culls in other manufacturers. Properly spining a shaft really only becomes important when trying to run tiny vanes and shoot long distance (aka not 3d). There are too many shooters running them successfully for 3d. How do you argue with success when these guys are choosing to shoot what they prefer?

My way•too•stiff XXX's do better than good even on the field course even at 9% FOC. The only real reason not to shoot them is kickouts on the short faces and crowded targets.

Open your mind a little and you might be surprised.

I wasted some time with fatboys based on their popularity and didnt see issues with durability but saw plenty of issues with tolerances and manufacturing. Weight variance across a dozen was poor and they were very sensitive to nock tuning. I would rate full bore's similarly. 


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I walked outside tonight with my specialist and screwed out the 75 grain tips and screwed in my 125 grain fieldpoints to slow down my arrows down to 285 fps. I walked up to 20 yds and in three shots I had my sight tape set and moved back to 50 yds. Without warming up or days spent zeroing in my sights I started grouping those 4 arrows at 280 fps just like they were grouping at 325 fps just a few days ago. Those 4 arrows are two carbontech cheetas one is 27 and 1/8 inch shaft and the other one is a 26.5 inch shaft because i cracked it from behind and trimed off the bad part, the other two arrows are gold tip ultralights and they are heavier but have the same spine. How in the hell can these 4 mismatched arrows that don't weigh the same or even have the same length group better than the fat arrows that are the same length same company and shoot the same hole out of a hooter shooter.

Secondly I know I wasn't having the best shooting night personally but every time I walked up to the target my arrows were more than acceptable, When I think about my season this year I have had way to many good days where I trained all week and I was rewarded on the weekend with a good score but my shooting was really good. This weekend I had a average day on a hard course and I really think that the fat arrows just made it way worse than it should have been. For the pro quality shooters who hold and release even better than me I think they can get away with shooting fat arrows at 50 yds and get the advantage of the line cutting but for a shooter like myself I am losing confidence in the fat stuff.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

I am telling people what I have found with my setup. What does FOC have to do with spine? Nothing that I am aware of. How much testing have you done on spine selection with your setup? 
To address your next piece of "information", you are saying that GoldTip, the purveyors of Smart Carbon technology, won't make a light fat-shaft arrow because it isn't feasible to do so? Carbon Express, CarbonTech, Easton, Victory and HT/Muddy all manage to do it but GoldTip doesn't. Every one of the manufacturers mentioned makes a shaft that can be "spined" out of nearly every bow out there, why doesn't GT? GoldTip is missing out on another portion of the archery market by not offering different spines in across their line. They refuse to make a Fita/Field arrow and the largest diameter shaft that they make is I believe the Velocity series and in that line they do make several different spines. You shoot 3D, 50yds, no more, you are just on the hairy edge of what you can get away with when it comes to spine. Also notice that when they get past 50yds they break out the arrows that they can break down. Tim Gillingham, was shooting Kinetics at Redding, as were the other GT staff members. Because they know that you have to break down the spine and tune your bow to the arrow in order to eek the last little bit forgiveness, not accuracy, out of the setup. Goldtip/Bstinger are probably some of the most effective marketers in this industry and having a few ultra pros on staff telling people that you can't be TOO stiff on your spine selection is not just coincidence. Why sell something that you(GoldTip) don't make? As I am certain you know, the guy saying, "you can never have too stiff an arrow", shoots a 31"+ draw length, is constantly changing his setup and is one of the top 10 archers in this country. He can get away with telephone pole stiff, he is The Hammer.

ETA: I forgot to ad, your "issues" with Fatboys further tells me that you aren't doing yourself any favors with the way you setup your arrows. You don't nock tune arrows, you find the spine of the arrow and align that that up with the way the arrow flexes as it travels, up and down. Put the stiff side of the arrow up or down. Lastly, my fatboy 400s weigh 375gr all 12 of them, the only variance in them across the entire dozen was because of the tips, add a little drop of hot-melt to bump the weight up or, grind a little steel off the lower the weight and they are all good to go.


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Anybody shot the Victory VX23's? Have not heard much about them. I had shot the 22s in the past and liked them


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Padgett, you are right to go where your confidence lies. It is a big portion of the battle.

Edgerat, i didn't say goldtip couldnt. I said they shouldn't. To do so would be a step backward in the fat shaft game. The success of all your references is arguable compared to gt's line.

What happens at redding is irrelevant to 3d. Its a dot game with long distance, windy conditions. Actually, All of your argument pertains to longer shooting....this is a 3d thread in the 3d forum isnt it? But for correction's sake, the kinetic is proving itself valuable on the FITA scene and is the smallest shaft gt offers. Im not sure what your point is about the velocity (aka UL) line up.....or if you are ignoring the pro hunters for a reason. 

What have i done in spine selection??? You name it. I was raised old school and couldnt bring myself to try gold tips stuff until everything else i tried in the fat carbons failed miserably. Ive also shot everything from 349 acc's to the triple x's off these same bows. I choose to shoot triple x's for 3d and 22's for field.....and am about to start shooting FITA (60, 50, 40 stuff) with them.

Get it out of your head that its necessary or even ideal to break down a carbon for 3d. The other manufacturers would be better off to do the same. 

Oh and you must be the luckiest guy in the world to get a dozen fatboys with great tolerances. Aligning the spine is great but doesnt mean they'll group. Nock tuning makes them group.......unless they are really bad.



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## MrKrabs (Dec 8, 2008)

tmorelli said:


> I wasted some time with fatboys based on their popularity and didnt see issues with durability but saw plenty of issues with tolerances and manufacturing. Weight variance across a dozen was poor and they were very sensitive to nock tuning. I would rate full bore's similarly.


I had those issues with my XXX. The 9 I was shooting varied in weight from 417gr to 422.2gr. The majority of the difference was in the shaft. I may have just gotten a sub-standard dozen, but after spending that kind of money I'm not eager to try out another dozen. 

I believe you shoot K45 which I haven't shot, but I've noticed in K50 I don't see many guys shooting the 27 diameter fat shafts. Of course I've only shot 2 K50 tournaments so there may be several that shoot them that I just haven't shot with yet.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

MrKrabs said:


> I had those issues with my XXX. The 9 I was shooting varied in weight from 417gr to 422.2gr. The majority of the difference was in the shaft. I may have just gotten a sub-standard dozen, but after spending that kind of money I'm not eager to try out another dozen.
> 
> I believe you shoot K45 which I haven't shot, but I've noticed in K50 I don't see many guys shooting the 27 diameter fat shafts. Of course I've only shot 2 K50 tournaments so there may be several that shoot them that I just haven't shot with yet.


Yeah, i dont know what to say about your experience with the xxx. In guess it happens to everyone and i wouldnt be eager to spend the cash on more either. Thats how i feel about easton for the last few years.........

I think you are right about the k50 guys. But id attribute that to dot shooting roots. The other 50 yard guys are shooting them plenty and doing fine with them. It looks like will at least one k50'er shooting them next year unless they dont work well off my new bows.


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## MrKrabs (Dec 8, 2008)

I'll readily admit I've always been partial to Easton. I shot them from the time I got my first bow in 1988 until I got the triple X last winter. I didn't have good luck with Fatboys out of my MR7 which is why I switched to triple X. The MR7 I believe would have done better with a Full Bore. 
This is really my first year competing so I'm still trying out different setups to find what works for me.Who knows I may completely switch everything this winter when I do more testing getting ready for next season.


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## outback jack (Aug 12, 2006)

I have been shooting fatboy's 400 out of my alpha elite cut to 27" carbon with 100 gr nockbusters @58# and 28 3/4" draw and these are the best shooting arrows I have ever shot. I actually had to take to a field shoot this past weekend because I can't get my contender elite dialed in and shot my highest field round ever. If I could just get my ACG's to fly like the fatboy's I would be one happy camper. I have had 400's setup before and they didn't shoot near as well for me as these.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

MrKrabs said:


> I'll readily admit I've always been partial to Easton.


I was too and shot them from about 1990 to 1997 in competition then hunted with them until a couple years ago (and carbon express) and then started competing again last year with them. I started with acc's where i'd left off and they'll always be great shafts but they lack in durability and i wanted to experiment with larger diameter. My testing with fatboys and full bore left me unimpressed and went in search of others.

The triple x was my last choice based on specs but it opened my eyes. 

My intent wasn't really to push gt so much as to debunk the myth that fat = stiff or that fat wont group or that stiff wont group,...........

You got to find what works for you......and there is a good chance that fat carbon can.......even stiff ones.

Btw, why did you go to k50?


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> Edgerat, i didn't say goldtip couldnt. I said they shouldn't. To do so would be a step backward in the fat shaft game. The success of all your references is arguable compared to gt's line.
> 
> What happens at redding is irrelevant to 3d. Its a dot game with long distance, windy conditions. Actually, All of your argument pertains to longer shooting....this is a 3d thread in the 3d forum isnt it? But for correction's sake, the kinetic is proving itself valuable on the FITA scene and is the smallest shaft gt offers. Im not sure what your point is about the velocity (aka UL) line up.....or if you are ignoring the pro hunters for a reason.
> 
> ...


So, in the magical land of 3D arrow spine doesn't matter? Good to know, I will make a note of that. Nock tuning and aligning the spine of the shaft are the same thing....If the XXX work for you that is great, stick with it.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

There is nothing wrong with the Carbon Express CXL series. The CXL 150s are not super tough, but do take some pounding before weakening. The 250s are fairly tough and the 350s are tougher yet.


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