# OAA Annual General Meeting



## CaptainT

Details about the 2012 Annual General Meeting of the Ontario Associations of Archers are on the website. These details include location, date, time and how to be heard.

www.oaa-archery.on.ca


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## araz2114

Here is your opportunity to be involved and to help make changes (if needed) in the OAA. Lets see some people step up to the plate and get involved. Lots of positions available, including President. Come on out to Colby and have your concerns heard and try to make change for the better. 

Make sure you follow the agenda process and have your submissions in to the OAA in advance. 

Hope to see everyone there.

Chris


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## CLASSICHUNTER

why is there not a general open discussion time set aside at agm...like a town hall meeting.. lots of ideas may surface ????timed of course ....


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## Stash

There is. It's called "new business" and anything appropriate can be brought up and discussed. 

As per the OAA rules, decisions cannot be made on the spot, because it's important to take time to reflect on new ideas for a while before taking action. Chairman's decision on how to time and moderate the discussion.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

open forum and new business are not the same.. new business is listed and on agenda and submissions sent in advance.. open is spontaneous and can arise from new ideas..sometimes some one attending meeting comes up with an idea as meeting progresses ..


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## Stash

Having attended perhaps 35 OAA AGMs over the years, I can assure you that relevant items can and are brought up for discussion under "new business" whether on the agenda or not. The Chair would appreciate it if you advise him about the topic of what you want to discuss prior to the meeting getting underway so it does not conflict or overlap something else, but even if you don't do that in advance, when he asks "is there any other new business?" just stick your hand up and you will be heard, and your idea will be discussed.

Often the Board or the Executive is given direction to actually act on something based on these discussions. Assuming it is not a rule or bylaw change (which required the protocol to be followed). And even then, some things that clearly need to be done can be, "pending ratification".


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## CLASSICHUNTER

stash thanks for clarification ....


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## JDoupe

Well put Stash.


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## XTRMN8R

personally, I would like to see a detailed account of the OAA's spending. I would like to see a detailed account of the "miscellaneaous spending" in particular. 

Also there was a decrease in the adult 3d funding this year from $1100 for 2 people to 800 for a single adult. Why was there a decrease, who approved the change (I dont think it was the oaa members) and why was Only the 3d funding cut?


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## cheaplaughs

If you shoot 3d with an Olympic bow can you get funding.


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## cheaplaughs

Just a thought sorry


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## Stash

Dave: You have the right as a member to see that and have your questions answered - all you have to do is ask in the appropriate way. I'd suggest you contact Adam Thomas or Lynda Savage _*through the OAA website*_, and ask if they can present a more detailed financial statement than the basics at the AGM.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

stash I asked for that when I was at the agm a few years ago and got a big run around sorry if I sound bitter on that item but when the entry for tournaments was one item 63k and no break down on financial statement I was appalled on how it was handled...


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## Stash

You sound bitter about _*everything*_ that has to do with the OAA  (<--- smilie, in case you missed it)

If you want _*all*_ the information, let them know in advance that you will be asking for it and give them time to get everything together.


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## Bow bandit

WATER BEETLE!!!!!!! just had to add that.


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## CaptainT

XTRMN8R said:


> Also there was a decrease in the adult 3d funding this year from $1100 for 2 people to 800 for a single adult. Why was there a decrease, who approved the change (I dont think it was the oaa members) and why was Only the 3d funding cut?


It wasn't just 3D that had adult funding cut, it was all the adult teams. The board approved the change - how the money is spent isn't a membership thing. The board is elected to handle the finances - if you don't like how the money is spent elect a new board. 

FYI - 3 years ago there was a total of $0 in funding for adult teams...


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## crkelly

CaptainT said:


> It wasn't just 3D that had adult funding cut, it was all the adult teams. The board approved the change - how the money is spent isn't a membership thing. The board is elected to handle the finances - if you don't like how the money is spent elect a new board.
> 
> FYI - 3 years ago there was a total of $0 in funding for adult teams...


This is where funding should be looked at in my opion. The adults are paying for memberships plus travel plus entry fees, but it's the youth who receive the greater portion of funding.
This seems a bit backwards to me, as with most sports the youth need to put in their time first. I believe that the OAA will always lean towards fita and faver along with it.
An adult team was put in place,but look for one picture of them in the OAA book or on site. I believe it's called throwing the dog a bone.


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## Bow bandit

I find it strange that other provinces have very little trouble finding the funds the send adult teams to the events discussed. Maybe we should look into how they get the money. The funds the OAA recieves could be divided by the popularity of the discipline they shoot, If there are say 1000 archers and 70% shoot 3D and 10% Fita, 10% field, and 10% are youth, should the funding not be decided as such. I know the youth are important to the sport but if the adults stop coming out who is going to bring the kids. The OAA says there funding is based on medals but they keep leaving some of are best archers behind IMHO. To all that have volunteered there time over the years kudo's to you this is not an attack, just members looking to make us as strong as we can be new ideas should always be welcome and discussed, I may have not sat on the OAA board but I have bought the membership for over 10 years and shot multiple OAA championships every year since. Maybe one day when I am not shooting 30 to 40 weekends a year I will take the plunge.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

Quite frankly, I don't think the OAA should fund anyone. I would rather see them put that money more at the grassroots level to grow and enhance the sport. You people shooting 30-40 weekends a year and expecting funding is absolutely absurd - you all sound like narcisists (me me me - look what i can do). Suck it up - ypou are all big boys and quit thinking of just the elite few. The OAA and the current board do a great job with the funding they receive - accolades to all who work hard for the OAA, you do fine job.:wink:


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## Stash

Bow bandit said:


> The funds the OAA recieves could be divided by the popularity of the discipline they shoot


It's more like the funds the OAA receives are required to be divided according to the guidelines presented by the agency that provides the funds. Government funding accounts for on the order of 40% of the OAA's annual revenue. 

I don't know enough about the details to say with any certainty how these funds are to be directed, so I'm not going to comment about funding 3D archers vs target archers. But I suspect that the government leans towards target archery and national/nternational events in that discipline - Ontario Games, Canada Games, Pan Am, Commonwealth, eventually Olympics. 

3D just isn't in their area of interest.


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## crkelly

Wiz w/a Sceptre said:


> Quite frankly, I don't think the OAA should fund anyone. I would rather see them put that money more at the grassroots level to grow and enhance the sport. You people shooting 30-40 weekends a year and expecting funding is absolutely absurd - you all sound like narcisists (me me me - look what i can do). Suck it up - ypou are all big boys and quit thinking of just the elite few. The OAA and the current board do a great job with the funding they receive - accolades to all who work hard for the OAA, you do fine job.:wi donk:


Wow that's making quite an assumption on your part. I see no person complaining about the hard work put foreward by our volunteers,but only areas that may need rethinking or change. So from your way of thinking and please correct me if I'm wrong,that others like Mr. Dietmar and Mr. Perkins should have any and all funding removed. And just to be fair so should all other sports.
Our local archery clubs in my opinion do the very best in promoting the grassroots of our sport and seem to have no problems with asking for input from it's members. I think your use of the word (narcisists) is not only unfair, but in fact a smoke screen to deviate from the topics at hand. So my rebuttal to you sir is (brown nosing) lol.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

yep correct assumption, you want to play you have to pay. My view is why should my dues and tax monies from the Gov. go to pay for anyone to travel and compete in archery. Dietmar is a very successful story and deserves accolades all the way around, he has paid the price i'm sure and has made a career out of it - he worked hard and it has paid off. My view, work hard in life, don't expect anything from anyone. like it or lump it - that is my view. Our OAA volunteers do a heck of a job BTW.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

stash just an observation on my part do you not think the oaa being as large an organization it is could bring the funding bodies up to speed and say re need funds for 3-d it will be a future olympic sport maybe??and I say that with a glimmer of hope ..we just need to ask ... when was the last time the oaa asked such a question ????or asked in print.. and a copy of of correspondence would probably enlighten the masses.. or at least take the heat off of the oaa... just asking not beating anybody up here.. just I think 3-d is probably the majority of rhe oaa membership.. and remember I am a fita shooter....


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## crkelly

So what I'm hearing and I'm pretty sure it feels like the same merrygoround. And no disrespect to Mr. Dietmar,is that if you work hard at target shooting and make a name for yourself it's ok.
On the other hand if you work just as hard with 3D and pay the price as well, you still don't count. This sounds all to familiar!


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## Stash

Doesn't hurt to ask, I guess.

There are set procedures for applying for funding for not-for-profit (or non-profit? Not sure which the OAA is, but I think there's a slight difference) sports bodies. That's the kind of thing Adam should be able to answer.


3D will never be an Olympic sport, by the way. Not in our lifetimes, anyways.


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## wanemann

Wiz w/a Sceptre said:


> yep correct assumption, you want to play you have to pay. My view is why should my dues and tax monies from the Gov. go to pay for anyone to travel and compete in archery. Dietmar is a very successful story and deserves accolades all the way around, he has paid the price i'm sure and has made a career out of it - he worked hard and it has paid off. My view, work hard in life, don't expect anything from anyone. like it or lump it - that is my view. Our OAA volunteers do a heck of a job BTW.


no one is attacking the oaa volunteers for the secound time! i believe crkelly comment is accurate with regards to you, and further you make very little sense again hopefully no one else nibbels on your comments. have a nice day


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## peregrine82

Well Wiz, I find your condescending comments totally uncalled for in the context of this discussion. Personally I pay my own way and ask nothing from any one to pursue my passion for archery. I enjoy all the disciplines but choose to shoot 3D because it is my preference. 

I don't believe I see an insurrection in the ranks, just a request from a few people to see a more level playing field when it comes to allocating resources. Unless I am mistaken the majority of OAA members in the Province are 3D shooters. I realize that in the Governments eyes 3D shooters are equated to hunters which are given short shrift at least in this current Provincial regime. Perhaps the Province dictates that all or most of it's funding go to target, youth, and field. It may not but perhaps the OAA executive could answer this.

I am not speaking from without, I have been an OAA member for several years and will continue to be. I would just like to see a more inclusive organization which recognizes the equality of all the disciplines. I think this is what we all (3 D shooters) are looking for. Perhaps all of this discussion will fall on deaf ears but I am an optimist and choose to believe that if we are all civil and discuss this openly and positively, change can happen.

Bobby


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

I don't belive field archery gets any funding - I could be wrong though - Execs can clear that up. But lets face it, everytime it comes down to funding the 3Ders want this and that and they are squaking about how unfair it is, we should get our way paid - boohoo. Ahhh i think the OAA recognizes all disciplines of archery - period. what more do you 3 D shooters want, name in lights perhaps, a VEGAS headline - grow up. I shoot Field and no one is squaking on our sid and we travel from one side of the province to the other and into the US - we aren't screaming to have our way paid. Go forth and "know thyself" - That was a data point by the way.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

And Oh BTW. IF we fund you - what service are you going to provide to me. Garbage pickup is this friday


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## DssBB

It appears each time we as 3D shooters question or try to propose suggestions to improve a sport we all love and work very hard at along with ensuring our membership monies gong to the OAA are being divided equally we get chastised. No one has ever came on and accused the OAA of any wrongful doing and there has only been praise given to the OAA executive who have done an outstanding job. 

"Wiz"....I highly doubt you have any idea how hard, how much effort and commitment some of these 3D shooters make in order to compete not only in Ontario but throughout the States. To come on here and bash a guy who puts in so much time and passion into a sport is uncalled for. The out of pocket expense to travel and be a part of 30-40 shoots a year is enormous. To praise only a couple of archer in Ontario who have been fortunate enough to be successfull yet trash talk the rest is pathetic to say the least. Maybe you need to get off that high horse your on and get real.

Each time suggestions are made on this open "discussion" forum we find ourselves as 3D shooters being bashed with certain comments that we are attacking the OAA. We are all spread out over Ontario and although it would ideal in a perfect world if we all could meet regular and discuss ideas of improvement however utilizing the AT forum to pass ideas around seems to work for most. If the OAA wants to continue to grow and work with all three disciplines of archery then maybe they should be start to listen to ALL of it's membership. The 3D shooter are the ones that seem to contribute most of the funds through it's membership and all we are asking for is fairness.


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## wanemann

I believe that any kind of branching may not be the best idea, at the end of the day we are all archers and should in theory be stronger as a whole. however we need to play nicely and fairly bobby is on target with his comment "if we are all civil and discuss this openly and positively, change can happen." it could be that change is impossible ,and all is as it should be, therefore simple civil discussions and some questions answered honestly cant hurt right.



however.... what usually happens is people act as they are being attacked and get super sensitive and defensive. some JA usually tries to derail the conversation with garbage like comments and the point and ideas get lost. so can we never mind the derailers and get back to discussion, maybe start a post with ideas/Questions to take to agm to be tabled as new business, and maybe who is attending for sure and can bring forth our collective thoughts


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## cc46

Well maybe there should be some 3D'er money set aside for 3D travel events, it's a major portion of the group. Might be fun to try. I like target but shoot in a forest with all of the squirrels about. Even set 2 salt licks down for the deer, but so far only raccoons. 

But seriouly to grow the OAA... grow the membership. And if that's 3D'ers or young begineers shooting because of the hunger games or brave, try it ride it out. We will all be stronger as the OAA.


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## Stash

Just wanted to point out that there's not really a lot of statistical evidence indicating that "most" or "70%" of archers in the OAA are 3Ders.

Based on the numbers from the various OAA Championships - the indoor events this year had 250-300 shooters. The 3D had about 80, and we haven't had this year's outdoor Target but 2011 had about 80.

Naturally, many of these overlap. But it's pretty clear that for the OAA's own events, paper punchers greatly outnumber rubber shooters.

Maybe the annual membership renewal form should have a place where people can indicate their primary discipline of choice so we can get some data to work with.


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## DssBB

Stash,

Just curious, for an outdoor field or fita event, what would be the average turnout be for the number of shooters.


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## Bigjono

Where are the indoors held, in the middle of nowhere like the 3Ds?


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

Yeah, you are right. I have no idea of the commitment and dedication . All you 3ders to is gripe and moan that you do not get a fair piece of the pie. Btw the target and field championships is a red carpet affair. I fail to see what more you guys want. Oh yeah I will gladly foot your traveling bill. Like I said no issues with footing the bill for you, but I want to know what service you are providing to me. Garbage pickup is on Saturdays. Just my point of view.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

average as per posts here about 20 no real stats as scores never posted or numbers..and stash you have a short memory again when I was at agm I asked for a box on membership to show or direct membership funds to style of shooting..exec stumbled with an answer about all aspects of archery...sorry but this is a figure that any organization should know yearly just as a stat to have on hand...again to be used to get funding from our govt maybe .. geez what a concept..and that includes field and fita or a box that says all...nobody left out...and this could be put in the financial statement like saying [ 450 members 350 3-d 90 fita 10 field ]and these figures are only for an examples I figure about 75 + shooters in the sault in 2 weeks hopefully more when I was at athens ont 2 years ago 125 shooters but top notch venue and central location ...


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## Stash

For club level non-championship shoots?

Field's not big. 25 is typical. Caledon has the biggest outdoor target rounds, maybe 50-60 at most.


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## Stash

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> this is a figure that any organization should know yearly just as a stat to have on hand...again to be used to get funding from our govt maybe


Yeah, which is why I suggested it again here. Short memory? Probably. I don't remember you suggesting it, but I agree. This isn't something that would require a rule change - I suggest you bring it up again at the AGM under New Business and ask that the Board direct the Membership director to include that in the renewal form. I will do it myself if I am able to attend.


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## wanemann

Stash said:


> Just wanted to point out that there's not really a lot of statistical evidence indicating that "most" or "70%" of archers in the OAA are 3Ders.
> 
> Based on the numbers from the various OAA Championships - the indoor events this year had 250-300 shooters. The 3D had about 80, and we haven't had this year's outdoor Target but 2011 had about 80.
> 
> Naturally, many of these overlap. But it's pretty clear that for the OAA's own events, paper punchers greatly outnumber rubber shooters.
> 
> Maybe the annual membership renewal form should have a place where people can indicate their primary discipline of choice so we can get some data to work with.


stash, 

Are you comparing the ontario provincials held in madawaska in the summer in northern ontario to the indoor 10 ring and iffa championships in january/february held at various locations? I for one am a 3dr, and will shoot anything for fun and practise, i have attended both iffa and 10 ring for the past 2 years and am usually not the only 3dr there by far, I would say at least half are 3drs, practising/supporting and enjoying. paper punchers out numbering the rubber shooters may not be as clear cut as you present the numbers, but stellar idea with the renewal form to collect data, that should be on the list of new business, a good idea in my opinion


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## DssBB

Stash,

I'm not trying to bash or stir the pot so to speak. Just trying to understand the numbers.

If your saying that a non championship field shoot only gets about an average of 25 shooters per event then that is quite low compared to an average 3D shoot which attracts 80-90 shooters and with the certain clubs having upwards of 125 shooters.

If the number of 3D shooters greatly exceeds the field and fita attendance at pretty much all shoots along with the number of 3D events held each year then the odds of the OAA's overall membership is coming from 3D'rs is pretty high.

I also think the boys down at Napanee bring in 30 or so weekly for their winter indoor shoot.


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## Stash

No, I was just pointing out that there is no statistical evidence to support people's ideas of the numbers of archers involved in each discipline, and we should get more data. I fully realize that comparing indoor championships scattered in 15 locations over Ontario to a single weekend of 3D in a central location is ridiculous.

Please note that _*I am not arguing for or against*_ funding 3D archers, never have expressed an opinion on it. I'm only suggesting that decisions should be made on facts, not anecdotal evidence, and from the point of the OAA, in its own championship events there are more rounds shot in target events than in 3D events. Those are the only hard numbers they have.


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## Stash

DssBB said:


> If your saying that a non championship field shoot only gets about an average of 25 shooters per event then that is quite low compared to an average 3D shoot which attracts 80-90 shooters and with the certain clubs having upwards of 125 shooters.
> 
> If the number of 3D shooters greatly exceeds the field and fita attendance at pretty much all shoots along with the number of 3D events held each year then the odds of the OAA's overall membership is coming from 3D'rs is pretty high.
> 
> I also think the boys down at Napanee bring in 30 or so weekly for their winter indoor shoot.


Yes. But how many of these are OAA members? I'd be willing to bet that close to 100% of FITA and most Field shooters are members, but nowhere near that percentage of 3D shooters are.

Let's have a large number of the 3D majority show up at the AGM, elect a "pro-3D" President and Secretary/Treasurer.

Either that, or let this thread wind down, and we can start it up again next year when the new President posts a notice about the upcoming 2013 OAA AGM.


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## M.cook

Wiz w/a Sceptre said:


> And Oh BTW. IF we fund you - what service are you going to provide to me. Garbage pickup is this friday


WOW! did he just say that?????? classy !


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## Bigjono

What tournament are the 3D shooters (of which I am one) suggesting could be funded? Does winning the provincials qualify you for a bigger event.
I think if anyone is asked to represent province, state or country then some financial help should be given. I know this doesn't happen but it should I think.


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## Bow bandit

Wiz w/a Sceptre said:


> And Oh BTW. IF we fund you - what service are you going to provide to me. Garbage pickup is this friday


Well by judging what is coming out of your mouth I would say they pile of crap that is out front of your house would require some large funding to remove. You are right why fund anyone! I will not be giving anymore money to the OAA nor should everyone else so they can no longer function and hold target shoots for Mr Miach to enjoy! Way to go! Stellar.


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## wanemann

Yes. But how many of these are OAA members? I'd be willing to bet that close to 100% of FITA and most Field shooters are members, but nowhere near that percentage of 3D shooters are."



right you probably are stash, now imagine how many of us there is, then imagine we were all oaa members, by now you should be imagining the reach of the oaa and force behind it. I would think it would be worth a patient ear and mindfulness as to how things appear form our end, coupled with a show of faith to change things just a tiny tiny bit. that alone may stop a someone form saying things like we should break away, which i don't know much, but form a business stan point not a good thing I wouldn't imagine



if i were the oaa i would definitely wanna know why and how to change your quoted statement above, unless we don't matter, aren't needed, and not respected in which case, yes its time to move on to something else 

stash you are sharing input and opinions I am aware you have stayed nutral, I am in now way confronting or attacking I am just referencing you for you are at least here and sharing openly.


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## Bow bandit

Want to do something cool, give the same funding to 3D that you do to target including the provincial cards that are out there and you will find out how popular it really is. Let's face it some are out there chasing the funding around, they used to shoot primarily 3D untill those cards showed up now target is king. Yes this will never Be allowed but it would be interesting to find out. Or we could go with the Miach approach and fund nothing and see how popular archery really is.


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## DssBB

I'm sure with enough clubs and members on board that joining the IBO or even the ASA is feasible and that way we know the monies contributed into 3D archery will be staying in 3D. The ASA is even making a move it appears to bring on board more clubs in the northern and eastern regions of the States. A 3-4 hour drive to upper NY state or 3-4 hour drive to northern Ontario makes no difference. The Ontario seaway challange has already had interest from a club in NY state and I'm sure the boys south of the boarder would make the trips up here for some shoots. It may be something that needs to be seriously looked into for 3D to grow within Ontario.


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## Bigjono

Good post.



QUOTE=DssBB;1064985892]I'm sure with enough clubs and members on board that joining the IBO or even the ASA is feasible and that way we know the monies contributed into 3D archery will be staying in 3D. The ASA is even making a move it appears to bring on board more clubs in the northern and eastern regions of the States. A 3-4 hour drive to upper NY state or 3-4 hour drive to northern Ontario makes no difference. The Ontario seaway challange has already had interest from a club in NY state and I'm sure the boys south of the boarder would make the trips up here for some shoots. It may be something that needs to be seriously looked into for 3D to grow within Ontario.[/QUOTE]


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## CLASSICHUNTER

good input boys .....keep it up and I hope oaa exec is reading this its an eye opener...we do need as many 3d shooters at the annual meeting to voice our opinions so guys power in numbers don`t sit back lets all go .. and if nothing becomes of it then at least we have tried and a honest amount of concerned archers that might start something new .....


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## wanemann

sound good classic I am in.


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## CaptainT

Stash said:


> There are set procedures for applying for funding for not-for-profit (or non-profit? Not sure which the OAA is, but I think there's a slight difference) sports bodies. That's the kind of thing Adam should be able to answer.
> 
> 
> 3D will never be an Olympic sport, by the way. Not in our lifetimes, anyways.


There are set procedures. The government works on a 3 year cycle. Every 3 years we fill out an application for funding. Every year we report to show we are doing what was in our application. This year the model changed from "Medals! Medals! Medals!" to "Development! Development! Development!". This is one of the key reasons for the shift in team selection criteria. Asking the government for money for 3D is an exercise in futility. The government only gives money based on the application you fill out and they don't ask questions about specific disciplines. The only reason the OAA qualifies for provincial funding is because of the Olympics and Canada Winter Games. This is just the way it is. The OAA is not "a large organization" when you compare it to the participation levels of Hockey/Baseball/Soccer/etc. 

Stash is 100% correct. I doubt 3D will become an Olympic sport in my lifetime. The first step would be to have compounds included and from what I've heard that is not going to happen any time soon either.


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## CaptainT

peregrine82 said:


> I don't believe I see an insurrection in the ranks, just a request from a few people to see a more level playing field when it comes to allocating resources. Unless I am mistaken the majority of OAA members in the Province are 3D shooters. I realize that in the Governments eyes 3D shooters are equated to hunters which are given short shrift at least in this current Provincial regime. Perhaps the Province dictates that all or most of it's funding go to target, youth, and field. It may not but perhaps the OAA executive could answer this.
> 
> I am not speaking from without, I have been an OAA member for several years and will continue to be. I would just like to see a more inclusive organization which recognizes the equality of all the disciplines. I think this is what we all (3 D shooters) are looking for. Perhaps all of this discussion will fall on deaf ears but I am an optimist and choose to believe that if we are all civil and discuss this openly and positively, change can happen.


We fund the same number of youth in 3D and Target. We also fund the same number of adults in 3D and Target. In 3D we fund part of the plaques for the Triple Crown and sponsor 10 targets for auction for the 3D Championship. Target does not get targets for auction or plaques. Should it really be split 50/50?

The Quest for Gold program is facilitated through the OAA but the criteria and funding is set by the government. It is not OAA funds that support this.


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## CaptainT

Stash said:


> Just wanted to point out that there's not really a lot of statistical evidence indicating that "most" or "70%" of archers in the OAA are 3Ders.
> 
> Based on the numbers from the various OAA Championships - the indoor events this year had 250-300 shooters. The 3D had about 80, and we haven't had this year's outdoor Target but 2011 had about 80.
> 
> Naturally, many of these overlap. But it's pretty clear that for the OAA's own events, paper punchers greatly outnumber rubber shooters.
> 
> Maybe the annual membership renewal form should have a place where people can indicate their primary discipline of choice so we can get some data to work with.


There are roughly 75 pre-registered for the Target Championship in Sault Ste Marie.

Adding the primary discipline of choice is a good idea. I am going to request that be implemented.


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## CaptainT

Bow bandit said:


> Want to do something cool, give the same funding to 3D that you do to target including the provincial cards that are out there and you will find out how popular it really is. Let's face it some are out there chasing the funding around, they used to shoot primarily 3D untill those cards showed up now target is king. Yes this will never Be allowed but it would be interesting to find out. Or we could go with the Miach approach and fund nothing and see how popular archery really is.


As I stated earlier, the Provincial Cards are paid for by the Government of Ontario. They dictate how they are to be selected. Unfortunately they are for Compound and Recurve target archery only. The only reason Compound is included is because of Canada Winter Games. If it was up to me there would be carding for 3D, it's just not in the cards.


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## CaptainT

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> good input boys .....keep it up and I hope oaa exec is reading this its an eye opener...we do need as many 3d shooters at the annual meeting to voice our opinions so guys power in numbers don`t sit back lets all go .. and if nothing becomes of it then at least we have tried and a honest amount of concerned archers that might start something new .....


In 2011, of the membership that attended the AGM, I'd say less than 25% were of the primarily 3D variety.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

hoping more 3-ders will come out to the agm this year and thanks for asking to implement choice of shooting style.. as per my thread # 37 a proactive move not reactive kudos.. a step forward already thank you and stash thanks for backing me on this..see some of my ideas are not far out there lol lol


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## x-hunta

Just my observations based upon what I have read and seen.

Yes there are most likely alot more 3d shooters in the province than any other. As Stash pointed out there is most likely a significant percentage who are not OAA members as field and Target shooters are. We can gripe and moan about 3d being the more popular discipline, which based upon local tournaments is probably true, but that wont change anything funding or membership.

But the thing we all seem to miss is the AVAILABILITY of each discipline, which usually coincides with the popularity. Clubs affiliated with the OAA, probably well over half have a 3d range while the number of clubs who have enough for 90m FITA is most likely under 50%, probably looking at not even 25%. Field, that number drops even more. So in regards to that there is obviously far more 3d shoots held, and they are more likely to be well within reasonable driving distance for your average joe. 

Now the Target events, well they are few and far between. There really only is Caledon who hold target events on a regular basis so those who live farther away, alot less likely to show. I am fairly certain we would see a reasonable growth in target shooters if the local club held target events as often as 3d. I don't think the problem is as much a lack of interest as it is the availability. What I mean is the average joe 3d shooter sees no issue in driving say, up to an hour, for a 3d shoot. He wont try target because that's a 3 hour drive which isn't really worth it in his eyes. Of course the interest will not be as high as 3d because majority of hunters don't like paper punching, and that's perfectly fine. But who knows there could be one hunter stumble into a target shoot and enjoy it enough to pick it up as well.

Field, well that group usually stays the same regardless of location. I guess some could call it a travelling circus with some of the clowns in that group (kidding of course :wink: ). There is a steady increase of field courses popping up in Ontario and I think in the next couple years we will see a growth in field archery. I believe field is not as much an availability issue as it is interest. But still the availability does lack with the same reason as target, driving distance. With the sounds of a couple more clubs interested in putting up a field course that should change. Of course that still leaves the interest to be taken care of, but that shouldn't be too difficult. I encourage 3d shooters to come out and try the game, I think alot will like it. I remember this year at Clarence Shred, Chris P shot with a couple and showed them what field was about and they seemed like they enjoyed it.

Of course that may be a little off track but that was just my observation based upon the membership comments and my opinions of what we need for archery as a whole to grow.


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## peregrine82

CaptainT said:


> There are roughly 75 pre-registered for the Target Championship in Sault Ste Marie.
> 
> Adding the primary discipline of choice is a good idea. I am going to request that be implemented.


 Thanks for that information, other than one poster this thread has at least generated some positive discussion.


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## Stash

AGM - CAGE MATCH!!!

Wiz vs Bow Bandit

Two men enter, one man leaves

BE THERE!!!


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## peregrine82

My money is on the Bandit.


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## DssBB

My bet is on BowBandit and having to have a Sceptre surgical removed could also be quite painful.


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## XTRMN8R

captainT,
I am not sure what you mean about the oaa funding 10 targets for auction at the 3d championships. So the oaa buys targets from one of the board members, they get shot or at least most of them do at the oaa event and then they get auctioned and that money goes Where?

As for carding you may not think it is going to happen but Bruce Savage seemed to think there was a chance at it. he approached a number of people to see what criteria could be put in place to create a potential card for 3d. I have no idea what has happened on that front since.

and how do you figure there was 25% 3ders at the last agm? Maybe because its held during prime hunting season? I fugure most people in the room were 3ders...I cant think of too many archers that compete that have not ever shot a 3d target.

In my opinion all this target vs. 3d is a smoke screen. What I and so many oaa Members would like to know if where is all the money going??
How much goes to funding, targets, saleries, expenses such as how much do board members get paid to travel to the meetings/tournaments, gas,score cards etc....

Why can the Members not get all the numbers...or do we need an audit?

If the oaa is willing to provide all this info, great. Please let us, the members, know how to go about getting it.


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## CaptainT

XTRMN8R said:


> captainT,
> I am not sure what you mean about the oaa funding 10 targets for auction at the 3d championships. So the oaa buys targets from one of the board members, they get shot or at least most of them do at the oaa event and then they get auctioned and that money goes Where?
> 
> As for carding you may not think it is going to happen but Bruce Savage seemed to think there was a chance at it. he approached a number of people to see what criteria could be put in place to create a potential card for 3d. I have no idea what has happened on that front since.
> 
> and how do you figure there was 25% 3ders at the last agm? Maybe because its held during prime hunting season? I fugure most people in the room were 3ders...I cant think of too many archers that compete that have not ever shot a 3d target.
> 
> In my opinion all this target vs. 3d is a smoke screen. What I and so many oaa Members would like to know if where is all the money going??
> How much goes to funding, targets, saleries, expenses such as how much do board members get paid to travel to the meetings/tournaments, gas,score cards etc....
> 
> Why can the Members not get all the numbers...or do we need an audit?
> 
> If the oaa is willing to provide all this info, great. Please let us, the members, know how to go about getting it.


By funding the targets, I mean we pay for them and take the loss because the amount raised during the auction has yet to cover the cost of purchasing them.

25% of those in attendance would choose to shoot a 3D tournament over the other disciplines if they were all right next to each other. It is during prime hunting season. It has been for as long as I can remember but the membership has not asked for it to be changed to be during prime fishing season. I personally would much rather be in one of my tree stands. 

I've said this over and over again, a public forum is not the place to discuss specific financial information. Our records are reviewed every year by an auditor that is selected by the membership at the AGM as is required by law. The review is available for everyone to look at, at the AGM. We have specifically requested that there are no "miscellaneous" expenditures this year, and try to explain how the review (not done by us) gets grouped together as best we can. We have had the full list of transactions at the last 2 AGMs and plan to again this year. The last 2 years when there have be questions we could not answer we did post the information in the membership portal. If you are a member the information is available through the appropriate avenues.

For anyone who wants to become intimate with the details of our finances, Secretary/Treasurer is up for nomination and so is President. We are looking for a new president as I will not be continuing past October 28th. (That is approximately 64 days, 6 hours, 19 minutes and 22 seconds for those that are interested :darkbeer.


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## shakyshot

:couch2::happy1::darkbeer:

this is gonna be a lloonngg meating


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## cheaplaughs

here's an offer to all the 3d shooters in 0ntario.i will put up $1000.00 to any shooter who will move up to semi pro and place in the top 3 at the ibo northern triple crown.we all know its alot harder to do well down south for some reason so if anyone would like to push their game to the next level heres something to shoot for.i believe you have to earn what you get so goodluck to anyone who would like this opportunity.


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## Bigjono

Running or being on the executive of any federation is always a time consuming and often thankless task so I have full respect for all the OAA committee. That being said, if there are glaring faults with the way some things are done or a section of the membership feel their best interests are being overlooked in favor of a different section then they have the right to raise points and ask questions.
Perhaps AT isn't the place to do it but many won't be able to attend the agm so need a voice somewhere.
From my point of view I think the 3D champs has almost become a non event in the last few years due entirely to its locations. I see a lot of Canadians at the iBO shoots that don't go to the OAA champs, why? For me it's about making the best use of the money I have so if it means a 3 or 4 day trip to shoot I want the biggest field best courses and best venue.


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## cheaplaughs

1st 2nd or 3rd. Let's go Ontario all 3 are up for grabs


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## CLASSICHUNTER

captain t why does the oaa fund 10 targets and then take a loss 10 x 250 dollars 2500 cost plus taxes 13 %=2800 dollars why not lower the price to shoot to 40 dollars and forget the target purchase ...clubs have their own targets and usually only charge 20 to shoot and at 40 dollars they would still be making double what they usually do at the gate for registration.... and then when the numbers are up so does food sales gross goes up as well as 50/50 and novelty shoot.. just good business.. you can nickle and dime a person to death but ..... charge a buck and then see who buys...nobody... imho...


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## Bigjono

The clubs need to provide 40 new or fairly unmarked targets for the champs, how many can do that Classic.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

have shot some nationals where they where just ok ....and same target for all...


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## Bigjono

I like the idea of providing 10 new targets for the champs but if the clubs were allowed to keep them at the end maybe more would come forward to host.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

now thats incentive !!!!!


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## cheaplaughs

i figured it out,if the funding wont come to the shooters then the shooters have to go to the funding.i spoke with the olympic coach today and she is going to help me with a fita setup olympic style.i know its alot harder form of archery but i will try.i will keep you 3ders updated.


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## Bow bandit

Good idea! But boring as hell.


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## ontario3-d'r

Wow - what a thread!! The OAA funds ONTARIO SHOOTERS to travel to CANADIAN NATIONAL EVENTS!!! These archers are to represent ONTARIO, wearing team Ontario Shirts and hats at our National event. Why should the OAA sponsor archers to compete at an archery organizations event that they HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH. It makes no sense what people are requesting. This year, the OAA funding from the government was dramatically cut, LIKE ALL OTHER SPORTS, and the travel money is what suffered. If you think the OAA is sitting on gobs of money, and just not spending it, WOW!!! The definition of non-profit, is you aren't supposed to have a balance at the end of the year. What is brought in - gets spent. Less came in for this year, and what was received was spent. Period. For the shooters who like to shoot in the states, there is nothing to say that you can't drum up some sponsor money for yourself. Go to the local businesses where you live and canvas. Tell them you will wear a logo for the newspaper articles when you get back. They will likely help you out. It is what I did in order to attend the Worlds in Austria. For the four or five competitive archers that can compete in the states extremely well, the other 1000 OAA members shouldn't have to pay your way to shoot in another country. Now, if you decide to compete at the CANADIAN CHAMPIONSHIPS, that is another story. Besides, Nova Scotia 2010, and Regina 2011, the OAA money didn't pay for the entire trip anyway. It has always been a partial sposorships. The $1500 it used to be, was a maximun. Anything on top of that was out of pocket. My two cents. Timmer


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## CLASSICHUNTER

tim what did the oaa give you to shoot down east and where ever the 2 years they sent you???? I agree it should be more.. and non profit doesn`t mean it can all go to one directive ..people are just stating they would like to maybe have it split up in a few venues if possible again everybody is not in the know  so some one has to explain it to the masses.. the ins and outs ..you know..


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## XTRMN8R

thanks for the info captain T

I look forward to seeing the documents at the agm

as for the new prez...bobby brown has my nomination:angel:


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## CLASSICHUNTER

I second that nomination...


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## wanemann

I third it...


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## DssBB

:set1_signs009:


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## crkelly

I agree with Tim on the matter of ,if you don't play in your own back yard don't expect to be invited to the party. But i did'nt see any place that it was asked for. I'm a 3D guy and have been doing it for years now and work hard at it. I send my cheque to the OAA every year and expect them to take care of my interests. Just like I send one to my insurance company and expect them to do likewise. I know that part of it also goes to both fita and field and I'm quite fine with helping my fellow archers in these areas. All I'm asking for is a fair shake. My money is sent in good faith and it buys me the right to ask questions or show concern if need be. The adult 3D teem was cut down to one archer and lost almost 75 percent funding. All I want to know is have the same numbers been removed across the board. No numbers games,no politics just a honest answer. Of course after the AGM meeting has been held.


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## CaptainT

crkelly said:


> I agree with Tim on the matter of ,if you don't play in your own back yard don't expect to be invited to the party. But i did'nt see any place that it was asked for. I'm a 3D guy and have been doing it for years now and work hard at it. I send my cheque to the OAA every year and expect them to take care of my interests. Just like I send one to my insurance company and expect them to do likewise. I know that part of it also goes to both fita and field and I'm quite fine with helping my fellow archers in these areas. All I'm asking for is a fair shake. My money is sent in good faith and it buys me the right to ask questions or show concern if need be. The adult 3D teem was cut down to one archer and lost almost 75 percent funding. All I want to know is have the same numbers been removed across the board. No numbers games,no politics just a honest answer. Of course after the AGM meeting has been held.


Yes


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## Bow bandit

Wow is right! Why would we not want to help archers go compete at the competitions that are recognized as some of the most prestigious or hardest to Win representing our country. The cost of traveling is really to high in this country for what to get in return. I could go to several events in the US for the same amount of money and know that I shot against some real competition. I know this will never change so I will continue to shoot on my own dime. Its funny that we use the IBO rules for 3D but we only send a team to the Fita 3D worlds which the US does not even field a team for. You could use the money and send more people to the IBO worlds and have better competition. To anyone who thinks you will ever get a president in the Oaa that is 3d or hunting minded good luck with that we tried that once before and the target boys showed up with some last minute proxy votes to end that. Just my two cents. Have at er boys I am out, Teddy or Bobby for prez. 




ontario3-d'r said:


> Wow - what a thread!! The OAA funds ONTARIO SHOOTERS to travel to CANADIAN NATIONAL EVENTS!!! These archers are to represent ONTARIO, wearing team Ontario Shirts and hats at our National event. Why should the OAA sponsor archers to compete at an archery organizations event that they HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH. It makes no sense what people are requesting. This year, the OAA funding from the government was dramatically cut, LIKE ALL OTHER SPORTS, and the travel money is what suffered. If you think the OAA is sitting on gobs of money, and just not spending it, WOW!!! The definition of non-profit, is you aren't supposed to have a balance at the end of the year. What is brought in - gets spent. Less came in for this year, and what was received was spent. Period. For the shooters who like to shoot in the states, there is nothing to say that you can't drum up some sponsor money for yourself. Go to the local businesses where you live and canvas. Tell them you will wear a logo for the newspaper articles when you get back. They will likely help you out. It is what I did in order to attend the Worlds in Austria. For the four or five competitive archers that can compete in the states extremely well, the other 1000 OAA members shouldn't have to pay your way to shoot in another country. Now, if you decide to compete at the CANADIAN CHAMPIONSHIPS, that is another story. Besides, Nova Scotia 2010, and Regina 2011, the OAA money didn't pay for the entire trip anyway. It has always been a partial sposorships. The $1500 it used to be, was a maximun. Anything on top of that was out of pocket. My two cents. Timmer


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## x-hunta

Bow bandit said:


> Wow is right! Why would we not want to help archers go compete at the competitions that are recognized as some of the most prestigious or hardest to Win representing our country. The cost of traveling is really to high in this country for what to get in return. I could go to several events in the US for the same amount of money and know that I shot against some real competition. I know this will never change so I will continue to shoot on my own dime. Its funny that we use the IBO rules for 3D but we only send a team to the Fita 3D worlds which the US does not even field a team for. You could use the money and send more people to the IBO worlds and have better competition. To anyone who thinks you will ever get a president in the Oaa that is 3d or hunting minded good luck with that we tried that once before and the target boys showed up with some last minute proxy votes to end that. Just my two cents. Have at er boys I am out, Teddy or Bobby for prez.


The FITA 3D team is Archery Canada driven, NOT OAA so I don't why we need to bring that up in here. 
Nothing stopping anybody from running for OAA president, target, hunting or 3d, we are all archers.


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## ontario3-d'r

BOW BANDIT. You are mssing the point. First of all, the FCA Adopted IBO rules a few years ago, and the provinces use what the FCA rules are. Second, the OAA and FCA are two different organizations. When you join the OAA, you are automatically a member of the FCA. Put in a formal request, that the FCA send a team to the IBO Championships on the off year of the FITA World's. There still won't be any funding, but you can wear the maple leaf. Third, and most important on my mind, the IBO Championships are NOT World Championships. They may call it that, but over 90 % of the competitors are American. Therefore they are the USA Championships. Germany doesn't send a team to the Italy championships - sub in other countries if you want. Why should Canada send a team to the USA Championships. At the FITA world, there were 26 countries participating. A true WORLD EVENT.


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## araz2114

I miss the user known as "Beating a Dead Horse". I'm sue there are several people here who want to change their name to that. Hahahahaha


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## CLASSICHUNTER

Tim at the ibo worlds which I have gone to ..when you say worlds the 10 percent is more than the world worlds 3-d in europe.. when I shot... I met people from austria spain korea england and numerous other countries.. 1500 shooters sure sounds like the worlds to me again no matter what country hosts an event your right but 10 % of nothing is still nothing.. also I think when it comes to sponsorship you better shoot good in the ibo worlds just ask chris perkins and dietmar.. they did not get their sponsorships and money from winning the provincials or canadian nationals .. travel outside the country and you get a name...and sponsorship and cash...imho and the fita worlds where held where????? again leave canada right ....tim I had asked what you received from the oaa to shoot the nationals still wondering ...and the world 3-d`s in austria .. ????? thats if you want to divulge that info thanks...


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## FiFi

the ibo is basically an open tournamnet, the Fita World 3-D is a closed tournament so the only way you get there is by winning your National 3d champs like Tim did after winning the OAA Provincial champs


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## cheaplaughs

who won in open class this year.and will they be traveling next year.


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## FiFi

team is listed on the FCA web site, don't think anyone from Ont made it


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## CLASSICHUNTER

fi fi 2 years ago I was going to go to the worlds fita 3d in italy... you did not have to win the nationals to attend all you had to do was just spend the money and show interest.. and also pay for your own uniform representing canada at a cost of 375 dollars to the archer..again if openings in the class actually all classes where open to public with dollars.. to attend would of cost me about 5k thanks but no thanks..Peter Garrette and Tim Watts did a great job representing canada...did Tim receive any $ to help fund his effort from the oaa or fca ?????and if so then there is a discrepancy in funding or the play in your own back yard statements from some here on at..


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## ontario3-d'r

The 2010 Canadians in Nova Scotia, and 2011 Nationals in Regina, I recieved a maximun of $1500 towards my trip. I spent more than that out of pocket. For the World's in Austria, I received nothing from any Archery organization. The trip, including paying for my uniform, was completely paid for by me. I busted my butt here in Ptbo, and ended up with about 80% of my trip sponsored by local businesses, and the trip total was $4800 by the time I got home. I know that I am beating a dead horse here, but again, the FCA receives grant money to support THE OLYMPIC ARCHERS ONLY. Dietmar and Chris attend those events on their own dime!! (Or maybe help from their sponsors.- NOT THE FCA!!!) The Canadian government only supports Olympic events - period. The FCA must spend their grant money on the Olympic shooters - they don't have a choice. They have applied for many years for a grant towards compounds, but are turned down every year. COMPOUNDS ARE NOT AT THE OLYMPICS. This will not change anytime soon.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

thanks Tim goes to show we need change when our archers pay out of their own pocket to go represent a country .. my example is the canadian ping pong teem ..hosted on tv and I`m sure gets support from sports canada or whomever.. guys we need some representation here to open the eyes of the sports committees and the olympic committees as well ...how do we do it .. do we need the suit and tie profile for this.. anybody clean up well and a little assertive .... lol lol


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## Bigjono

Get it on TV then the sponsors will follow.


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## hoody123

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> thanks Tim goes to show we need change when our archers pay out of their own pocket to go represent a country .. my example is the canadian ping pong teem ..hosted on tv and I`m sure gets support from sports canada or whomever.. guys we need some representation here to open the eyes of the sports committees and the olympic committees as well ...how do we do it .. do we need the suit and tie profile for this.. anybody clean up well and a little assertive .... lol lol


Of course they'd get money, table tennis is in the Olympics too.


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## Bigjono

I really think field archery could be a TV sport with just a few tweaks.
Those who have to pay to represent their country AND have to buy their own uniform should take those stories to the media. Whatever the sport I think the public would be shocked by that.


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## DssBB

It's quite obvious that very little if any funding toward 3D archery will ever come from the Ontario or Canadian government regardless of the proven numbers of attendees at shoots compared to field and fita events. We can complain all we want but it's very unlikely any positive outcome will surface. We as 3D shooters are as mentioned previously, "just beating a dead horse". It's great that the OAA has tried to do their best to help 3D archery in Ontario although their hands are tied and even if a new board is or can be elected with 3D shooters on the board, the chances of having the support needed to grow 3D archery in Ontario still may never come from it. There is always going to be disagreements between 3D and field and fita and unfortunately the OAA is caught in the middle.
The only sure way for 3D shooters in Ontario to ultimately achieve a true 3D organization is to follow what Quebec has done with their 3D circuit and create one with the support of the IBO or ASA. If enough clubs are willing and there are plenty in Ontario along with the numbers of 3D shooters, then maybe it's time to put the effort into creating our own circuit . The monies raised through membership along with any corporate sponsorship will remain with 3D. If will take some work and a lot of hours to not only organize and form an Ontario 3D circuit, but the end results should be worth it in the long run. Some, are obviously going to be upset if 3D does separate from the OAA, but at least an organization comprised of 3D clubs and members will be able to control were our hard earned money is being spent and which aspects of 3D archery effort for growth can applied towards.


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## Bigjono

I like that idea. I think that Ontario 3D should align itself with the iBO or form its own provincial federation. I have just taken over the running of the archery section of a club in Hamilton. It used to be an OAA club years ago but pulled out. I was thinking of taking it back in but I might go iBO instead now. We are already talking about a Southern Ontario 3D league run independently from the OAA to provide bigger competition for those who don't want to keep traveling to the middle of nowhere for the OAA 3D champs.
Maybe it's time to leave te OAA to look after the target side and grow 3D on its own.


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## cheaplaughs

from what i understand,were only traveling because there are no southern clubs putting their name in for the triple crown shoots.


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## Bigjono

Ok so that beggars the question Why. Galt are big nough, Royal City are too. My own club Hamilton could host if we decide to rejoin but what has put clubs off doing it. Can't the OAA make it so if you are an affiliated club you have to take your turn.


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## cheaplaughs

if there was a new organization how many shooters would like to pay into a fund so that a couple of shooters could have their trips paid for.


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## DssBB

Having a shooter or shooters partial funded by a 3D organization could be the prize awarded at the end of the season. If there are enough clubs and members involved and we are able to run a province wide Triple crown, it may be possible each year to select a winner from one or two classes and have a partial paid grand prize to a national shoot. 
Club and member insurance would also have to be looked at as most clubs currently use the OAA, however, there are organizations in Ontario such as OFAH who may also be able to offer club/member insurance.
The current Triple Crown is not seeing the attendance it should with the number of 3D shooters in Ontario and clubs do not want to bid to part of it. If clubs like Durham, York and P&P can draw 80-125 shooters for an annual shoot and of the 3, only York had hosted one of the legs of the Triple this year, could it be because there was nothing given to the club from the OAA to assist with hosting aside from the use of 10 targets. 
The Hoyt - Easton shoot in Quebec for example draws in hundreds of archers for the shoot. There is no reason that a Pro-3D or similar circuit in Ontario wouldn't be able to jointly host a shoot and draw in a similar attendance.


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## JDoupe

Must. Bite. Tounge.


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## FiFi

I thinks its comical that there are so many calling for a new organisation when they will not get involved with one that uses IBO rules and funds a junior team to the Canadian National 3-D champs that also uses IBO rules,too funny. now before anyone gets all hot and bothered over this let me tell you that from when I was Western Zone director in the late 80's to my last day as OAA President some 20 years later I saw not less than (7) seven 3-d organisations rise and fail we even had an IBO Provincial Champs for a few years, they all failed for pretty much the same reason, nobody wanted to do the work needed, and now we have the annual talk about how the 3-d archers are hard done by and starting another organisation.



Sean


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## cheaplaughs

your right fifi,being part of ycb there are very few that help out.our 3d league 10 yrs ago was shot by almost all members and alot of them helped out.now with only a few helping out we dont even run a league anymore even with four loops still up from the oaa third leg its barely used.


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## cheaplaughs

sorry i guess that was Sean that wrote that.


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## araz2114

:deadhorse:


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## CLASSICHUNTER

I think the main concern we hear is thee 3-d shooters feel under represented ..the fees are collected and little goes back into 3d program mainly fita.. I hope the oaa exec with their financial statement breaks it down what is spent on fita and what on 3d including the travel expenses and such ..and age groups as well... this should be presented at the agm ..I know the exec is on at here so this is my formal request..


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## x-hunta

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> I think the main concern we hear is thee 3-d shooters feel under represented ..the fees are collected and little goes back into 3d program mainly fita.. I hope the oaa exec with their financial statement breaks it down what is spent on fita and what on 3d including the travel expenses and such ..and age groups as well... this should be presented at the agm ..I know the exec is on at here so this is my formal request..


Ted, as previously stated, an open forum is nowhere to discuss financials let alone make a "formal" request. As has been said you can contact the OAA and formally request what you are looking for.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

I did not ask for the financials to be posted here on at but at the meeting.. seems you get more of a reaction here than the 10 to 20 days for a return from the oaa when you send a request just me stating a fact ..I have not even mentioned other than quite few of the others here about financials ..also this is a statement so all of the members can see it has been requested.. I`ve been at the agm when a member had made a previous request to have item on agenda and it was lost or blown off and was not discussed ..to the fee paying members dismay...


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## XTRMN8R

What I find comical is that all the people on AT who have so much to say regarding the oaa and how 3d is managed in Ontario have not come out to a 3d shoot in as long as I can remember. 
The fact is that a great many 3d archers attend target events and support target archery in general but when it comes to 3d the ones with so much time for AT comments dont show up.

The reason some of us would like to break away from the OAA is simple. VALUE FOR OUR MONEY. We want to see our hard earned dollars going to targets,clubs, funding etc and not into the OAA void that thus far seems to gobble up money with very little to show in return.

As an example I would love to hear what initiatives the oaa has taken to support Bowhunting? 

I am looking forward to seeing for myself at the agm what the financials will reveal. Maybe We are getting what we paid for...then again, maybe we just have not idea what it is we are paying for.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

Guess this means I'm not getting garbage pickup 
:wink:


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## araz2114

Hey Dave (or anyone), maybe you should run for VP of Bowhunting... I'm not being smart here... I'm serious... I'm just saying if anyone wants change all they have to do is try to make change. Being involved is the first and most important step. If anyone won't try to help then no one should complain.

I say it's time for change! Lets go to the AGM and elect the people that can make it happen. Time to rule the roost as it were...

Chris


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## CLASSICHUNTER

araz 2114 chris just wondering if you would take an exec position.. you have the know or have you been on the oaa exec before.. ???? and I love the dead horse icon you posted lol lol this is not a jab ,,we do need some motivated all round personal to be elected.. maybe we can get the oaa to post job descriptions so we can review... and not go to the oaa web site and search for an hour.. if they want people ...then help the people explore the position with as much ease as possible.. and this is something that can be posted and not hidden...


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## DssBB

Just a hypothetical question. If some 3D shooters do run and get elected for positions such as president and few others on the board of the OAA, does that mean that come voting time on where to allocate funds (member, club and government) that an equal share can be put into 3D archery for targets, clubs, youth 3D archery programs or does the majority of the money HAVE to go into field and fita?


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## CLASSICHUNTER

again we do not have the total pic here ... I`m sure that what the gov`t dictates for fita etc would be directed that way but budget allocation of membership monies collected is as per the exec voting on next years budget I would think... and should not be voted on by existing exec for next year but by new elected exec ...Just like a city council does it.. who would want to be on the exec if you did not have control of monies spent right...


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## araz2114

Sorry CLASSICHUNTER, I have no desire nor time to be on the OAA executive. I do support what they do for ZERO pay. I would rather shoot archery. 

I was reminded of a 3D guy that was president for a very short time (4 Months if I remember) Orlo Marshall (sp?) Does anyone remember? 

If there is a problem with the OAA I sure hope someone out there that knows archery (not just target or field or indoor or 3D... but well rounded) gets the position of President.

Chris


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## cath8r

This thread comes up every couple years and the same folks chime in every couple years with the same points of view. Nothing will change or improve. I'm all for McQuaker as bowhunting rep and Priester as some kind of exec position. Just make this repetitive thread die already. Why not just shoot whats offered by the clubs that do the work and stop complaining...


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## cheaplaughs

What happened to orlo i remember he was very enthusiastic about archery and a real nice guy


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## Stash

Meeting's 2 months away. Does anyone know if we have any nominations put in yet? Lots of people with ideas, but nobody seems to be picking up the ball.


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## araz2114

Now you are talking Rob... but lets not let it die just yet... I've still got popcorn left  I have NO desire to be on the executive at all... I want to see people stop complaining... but I believe in unicorns also  

party on Wayne.... party on Garth!





cath8r said:


> This thread comes up every couple years and the same folks chime in every couple years with the same points of view. Nothing will change or improve. I'm all for McQuaker as bowhunting rep and Priester as some kind of exec position. Just make this repetitive thread die already. Why not just shoot whats offered by the clubs that do the work and stop complaining...


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## XTRMN8R

I would run for vp of bowhunting. I am not sure there would be anything for me to do:wink:

As for Orlo- he started his own group. I think it was a trad/bowhunting group.?
...the last I spoke with him he was so sick of the oaa that he was willing to walk away from Everything to do with archery in Ontario...but that was a few years back now.


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## cath8r

Oh, I remember that group. They made a pitch down here at the AMA that went over really well. I donated $50.00 as they seemed to have a great idea and alot of energy. Then I got a flyer/newsletter how they all went moose hunting and never heard a thing about it again, except for a rant against them on the Canadian Forum. What is it about us Canadians not wanting to get involved then whining about how things aern't exactly how we want them...


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## wanemann

cath8r said:


> Oh, I remember that group. They made a pitch down here at the AMA that went over really well. I donated $50.00 as they seemed to have a great idea and alot of energy. Then I got a flyer/newsletter how they all went moose hunting and never heard a thing about it again, except for a rant against them on the Canadian Forum. What is it about us Canadians not wanting to get involved then whining about how things aern't exactly how we want them...


well.. most of us canadians do not have the time to full heartedly get involved and do not wish to commit half as#, however we expect when being a part of an organization, that organization is held accountable, forthcoming with information and open, for example when i call my bank and ask what my money is doing, they tell me, what they don't do is tell me to stop whining/complaining, or get super defensive and hurt over my questioning attitude, they don't do that cause it would be noted as suspicious behaviour. what they do do is listen provide/answer and then act, they make me comfortable, by providing info answering questions up front and acting like they really appreciate my contributions and support. 



the oaa now knows what info is being sought after, questions that will arise, so to put this issue to bed simply be accountable and state publically that the info will be available in detail at the agm and some time will be set aside for question/answer period.


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## Bow bandit

Everyone knows the FCA 3D championships are really only a regional championship with the exception of the provinces that seem to have no problem funding a whole team. The bulk of the people at the shoot live there, just check the names and see who was there it is very obvious most don't go out of the province on their own dime because it is far too expensive in Canada to travel. So yes you may fund a team but it is still a regional champioship and always we be due to the size of the country. Ontario is very close to the IBO events and anyone who has been to one knows how hard they are to win. I still think our archers benifit more and become visible going to events that have more coverage and a higher level of competition. They will also learn a tonne about 3d while shootin there and improve there game. It is also more value for your money as the enrty fees are lower and you can drive to them from here. I find it funny that we want to send teams to the Fita world championship to represent Canada and ask them to fund it on thier own, just stupid ImHO. Sure a few countries go and select a team to try and call it a true world event but the country that is arguably the best at 3D does not send a team. If we want to be the best we need to beat the best and that does not always mean sending independently wealthy people around the country and call that funding a team. I honestly think that if a few past Canadian champions packed up there equipment and headed south to the real World championships they would find out in short order where you stand in the realm of things, JMHO. Don't get mad just meet me on the course and I will show you what the IBO can bring to your shooting.


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## JDoupe

How is the IBO not regional as well? Do you get a lot of shooters from BC or Alberta there?

I think it is great that southern Ontario thinks everyone can just zip over for a few days of shooting in the IBO's......but really, there is a pile of people in this province who can not (....and before you chirp back....I'm not counting myself in this). 

Sometimes, it's easier to fly to the Nationals than drive to the IBO's (couple of flight transfers and no customs to deal with). I'm not sure it's cheaper, but with the price of gas, it's at least close for some.


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## Stash

wanemann said:


> the oaa now knows what info is being sought after, questions that will arise, so to put this issue to bed simply be accountable and state publically that the info will be available in detail at the agm and some time will be set aside for question/answer period.


The OAA President posted in #65



> Our records are reviewed every year by an auditor that is selected by the membership at the AGM as is required by law. The review is available for everyone to look at, at the AGM. We have specifically requested that there are no "miscellaneous" expenditures this year, and try to explain how the review (not done by us) gets grouped together as best we can. We have had the full list of transactions at the last 2 AGMs and plan to again this year. The last 2 years when there have be questions we could not answer we did post the information in the membership portal. If you are a member the information is available through the appropriate avenues.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

stash then have the auditor at the agm to answer the questions ...also when I was at the agm the auditor was not selected by membership..but by executive.. if so what is process to select auditor is there a list provided with their credentials and years of experience...just wondering...and is it voted on by membership attending


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## CaptainT

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> stash then have the auditor at the agm to answer the questions ...also when I was at the agm the auditor was not selected by membership..but by executive.. if so what is process to select auditor is there a list provided with their credentials and years of experience...just wondering...and is it voted on by membership attending


The auditor is voted on by the membership (and was at the AGM in Peterborough that you attended). The executive makes a recommendation to stay with our current one because they are familiar with our Not For Profit Provincial Sport Organization. If there is a different auditor that the membership thinks should do the review they are more than welcome to make the recommendation and let the membership choose. This is the 7th item on the agena (as it has been for the past several years).


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## cc46

good golly, this thread is still going!
Seems to me all the money that comes in is spent. It's non profit right?

If you want to do more then get more money.

How about signing up more members? Didn't someone say there are a thousand 3D'ers out there that are not an OAA member and not paying membership fees? Seems like that is the "low hanging fruit". 
Or increase the membership fees by a few dollars, or is that nickle and diming?. 
And if you raise the membership fees then ask the membership where they'd like the new money to be spent, travel teams etc, on which ever discipline. And when it's done, live with it.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

cc46 you missed the point you say get more 3d shooters point is I personaly think their memberships support the other venues ..again non profit doesn`t mean spend it because its there..wrong wrong wrong.. spend it wisely with accountability ..thats all and then we would not be having this conversation...


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## Bow bandit

No what I am saying is that it make better financial sense to send a team to events that are closer and higher profile! Jason pack up your equipment and next year you can come with me to an event, untill then you may not understand where I am coming from. I think the last few shoots you have been to and shot with me should give some idea of what you can get out of the IBO or ASA. The shoots in the US at least draw hundreds of archers from other states, and they are all very good at what they do. But I really have fun down there and if nobody in the OAA wants to grow 3D so Be it, at least I have the choice where I spend my money. But I am serious look at the IBO shedual and pick a shoot and you can come with me. Good luck everyone  



JDoupe said:


> How is the IBO not regional as well? Do you get a lot of shooters from BC or Alberta there?
> 
> I think it is great that southern Ontario thinks everyone can just zip over for a few days of shooting in the IBO's......but really, there is a pile of people in this province who can not (....and before you chirp back....I'm not counting myself in this).
> 
> Sometimes, it's easier to fly to the Nationals than drive to the IBO's (couple of flight transfers and no customs to deal with). I'm not sure it's cheaper, but with the price of gas, it's at least close for some.


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## JDoupe

I will say that I may not understand the level of compitition.....but I have an idea. I see the shooters up here....and how they do down there and understand that the level of shooting is up a notch (or two). I may take you up on your offer of going down....we'll have to see where I'm at next year.

I agree that it would make financial sense to go to bigger shoots, that are closer. The problem is, that is only for a portion of the OAA membership. It may only be 4 or 6 hours drive for you to get to an event....that makes it 7 to 9 hours for me and far more for others North of me! 

I'm not totally against what you are saying, just that it's not the same for everyone in the province. The OAA represents all of Ontario and needs to look out for all members.

Remember where a lot of this came out of. People from the South not wanting to drive for events held in the North.


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## Bow bandit

This is easy support what you believe in and spend your money wisely. I know where my money is going for now on. Just so people don't get the wrong idea about what I am looking for I will never apply for any team in this country or ask for one red cent of funding. I have a job and will look after myself I always have. I just want the 3D shooters to get their fair shake since they pay into the organization as well. If you say they are then prove it with the records at the AGM, rather easy IMHO. Not a cent ever! You heard it here. I found what I like in the south and I will continue to spend my money there for now. I still Cannot understand why anyone would put on a national or provincial shirt on their own dime. You might as well go and wear what you want and do what you want since you are paying for it anyway.


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## FiFi

i guess all those 3-D teams that the OAA sent to the Nationals fully funded many of them, where just a figment of my imagination, if any group has a right to complain it's the Field archers, there has never been a junior or senior team sent anyplace for as long as i have been involved with the OAA


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## Bow bandit

Name one adult that was ever fully funded! and was not out of pocket any money. You don't get the amount they say you do and it takes several months to get you money back. Please post accurate info! I hope you get your % for field too. Like I said spend your money wisley. I have no complaint anymore because I am in control of where my money goes, everyone should remember this. Hope you all have fun shooting.


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## araz2114

FiFi said:


> i guess all those 3-D teams that the OAA sent to the Nationals fully funded many of them, where just a figment of my imagination, if any group has a right to complain it's the Field archers, there has never been a junior or senior team sent anyplace for as long as i have been involved with the OAA


Sorry Blake, Sean has you there :boom::boom::boom: But I am enjoying this immensely :happy1::happy1:

I am looking forward to the OAA to fund Field archery to send a team to the FCA's or even better the NFAA's in Darrington, Washington. Should be a good time.

Chris


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## Bow bandit

I hope you get it. I am pretty sure Andrew Fagan went to the Canadian field championships on a card that paid his way so you lied again. I am glad the field archers are seeing the light as well. With all this discussion everyone might just find the Holy Grail after all, or just another Monty Python movie.


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## Bow bandit

Still waiting for the name! Yup that's what I thought, I am enjoying this to Chris! Cover ups and misdirection I say.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

this is why we need on our memberships a box with the venue you shoot...so monies can be directed to that venue.. if only 5 % field shooters then 5 % of funds go that way... that is only fair then we can say.... get the field shooters out to support the cause....This is not a bash against field shooters just used as an example... in this day and age it is called pay as you go...just like in real life for hockey and ringette and sports hosted by your cities .... somebody has to pay for that rink time right...


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## CaptainT

Bow bandit said:


> I hope you get it. I am pretty sure Andrew Fagan went to the Canadian field championships on a card that paid his way so you lied again. I am glad the field archers are seeing the light as well. With all this discussion everyone might just find the Holy Grail after all, or just another Monty Python movie.


Andrew's card is paid for by Dalton McGuinty's Liberals directly (and with the way funding cuts are going I don't see that going on for long). No money is given to him through the OAA. There was $800 for an archer in each 3D and Target given by the OAA and one of the criteria is they cannot be carded by Quest for Gold (Ontario) or Sport Canada.

I'll redirect the same question back at you. Name one target archer who was fully funded by the OAA to attend an event.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

Blake, you poor misguided soul. What are you still doing here, I thought you took your monies and were leaving. - Bye Bye
Jason has it dead nuts on, all of Ontario not just you and your cronies centric little world. Again you just wants your name in Vegas lights, you have proven that thru your posts. Well here it is - Blake is the best 3d archer in Ontario, and I sincerely mean that you are a great shooter, you rival that of Chris Perkins, deitmar trills, Andrew fagan and the list goes on. Really, you are the best, screw the rest of Ontario they are not worthy. 

Oh, I thought you were taking your monies and going elsewhere - bye bye

I hope the rest of the clubs in Ontario are reading this thread and can see and prepare themselves for this centric narrow minded thinking . 

Oh btw the only thing I have learned at the ibo is how to sit around and wait for two days, then guess how far the target is (yes guess) and then try and guess as to where the x ring is (yes guess) - sounds more like match game from the 70's doesn't it.

Bye


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## cath8r

Wow Dave..... tell us what you really think! Can't say I disagree at all. The top 3Ders aern't 'guessing' yardage or scoring areas. It takes a TONNE of work to know the yardage and scoring areas at angles and all lighting conditions. My hats off to the likes of Blake, McQuaker , Fagan, McCann and alot of those guys that have lit it up in the IBO. It seems that 3D is the venue that the OAA just 'can't get right'. Maybe the OAA should just drop 3D and save itself ALOT of money, time and heartache??? Was that the elephant in the room?


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## shakyshot

:happy1::happy1::darkbeer:

WOW!


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

You are absolutely right rob, they aren't guessing. But then what the hell does estimation technique and better binoculars than the average joe have to do with shooting an arrow. And yes I know they work hard at estimating, but again not archery. Why do the 3ders consider themselves special.

The plain fact of the matter is the Gov is not going to support killing animals (simulated or not) at any level


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## cath8r

Great point Dave. The optics are bad for a gov't trying to get re-elected to support simulated animal cruelty. Reckon the OAA should just drop 3D all-together as its just a giant 'pita' ...


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## peregrine82

Mr. Maich, it does appear from your post that you hold 3D shooters in disdain and believe they are on a lesser level as an archer than you. That may not be the reality but it certainly is the perception if I take you at your word.

I stated much earlier that a civil discourse between differing points of view could result in common ground being reached. There have been several threads on here concerning how the OAA disburses funds they receive. I will be the first to say that I am not going to propogate rumour, or hearsay. The fact of the matter is I have no direct knowledge as to how the OAA allocates funding within it's authority. I do know that 3D is a constituency within the OAA. My personal position is not to see funding for individuals to travel to out of Province events. I would love to see 3D being supported at the club level and efforts made to increase attendance at the OAA events. There are several ways this could be addressed but it will take a commitment from all the stakeholders to accomplish this.

As I stated earlier 3D is a constituency within the OAA and as such should be treated as an equal partner with the other disciplines. Unlike Mr. Maich and his views on 3D I do not look down my nose at field and target archers. I have great admiration for those that perform at a very high level within those disciplines. 

I am only speaking for myself here but all I would like to see from the OAA is transparency and a willingness to recognize all the constituents be treated equally within the OAA family. I also recognize that 3D will never see a dime of Government funds. That is a reality and one I have accepted.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

Nope not true I don't disdain them. What I disdain is certain individuals attitudes that are just in for themselves. When they don't get their way they take there pail and shovel and go play somewhere else. For years myself and other individuals far more committed than me setup and tore down courses in the hopes of increasing participation, and for years it was always the same with 3ders I want to shoot but don't ask me to help (not a generalization either). Well now comes the day of reckoning you 3ders want your share of the pie, well have at it boys and girls. Look no further than this thread and I think you will see it self explanatory. I'm taking my shovel and leaving. I actually believe you 3ders should all chip in 20 bucks, the oaa being non profit will hold it for you and send a 3 man team to the ibo worlds to shoot the open pro class. The team funds the difference - whatcha think. But you 3ders fund yourselves, you will have to be an oaa member and circle 3d on your registration form and incorporate the additional 20 into the oaa fee. What say you.20 bucks isnt much, 20 mulligans on the year, and then you can send your team to the ibo worlds. I wonder how the northern clubs will take that - hmmmm. Better yet let's just limit it to southern Ontario and increase the fee to 50 to make the difference up - that should do it.

Sorry couldn't resist. Maybe you should take Jason's words to heart I think he sees the light - all of Ontario

And I think the individuals that attend the 3d shoots who aren't members - you should ask them for a donation as well. Typical backyard hunter/gamesman has lots of coin rolling around. You can tell them it's for the good of the sport.

Sorry about the spelling I'm in traffic.


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## cc46

okay so lets say everything works out.....
now what does the best situation look like? 
I mean what best in your view? 
I think what I am hearing is: 
-- A prorated OAA spend on travel teams for each discipline, based on the prorated %age of the identified membership, right? But after the basics costs are covered and not including funding from government programs.
Yes ? / No ?


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## CLASSICHUNTER

isn`t texting in traffic against the law .....


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## cath8r

I think that the super high qualifying 3Ders should shoot Open Pro or MBO if they were to recieve any funding to attend an IBO.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> isn`t texting in traffic against the law .....


Yep, so is being a ******ed oops retired dirty old man

Nice profile Ted
You are a real benchmark


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

cath8r said:


> I think that the super high qualifying 3Ders should shoot Open Pro or MBO if they were to recieve any funding to attend an IBO.


Yep, none of this bow hunter fixed pin limited yardage. 3ders can man up and shoot with the big guns. Not going to fund a team for shtz and giggles. I'll be first to donate 20 bucks to the fund. Where do I pay


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## cath8r

Whats that class called where they shoot a fixed pins sight but use target stabs??? Don't forget about Bowhunter, Advanced bowhunter where they shoot 5 yards farther, Unlimited etc etc. In my view it should be Bowhunter, Open Pro, MBO, maybe Semi Pro, crossbow and trad. 6 classes mens and females. Then a couple of kids classes....


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## Stash

We could fund a full team of 3 in each IBO class. That would work out to what? Maybe one McDonald's breakfast for each and every team member.


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## XTRMN8R

just a few facts to add.

I shoot open in ontario with fixed pins,
mbr in the ibo is 45'max wich is sometimes 47',
the reason i dont shoot open in the ibo is because I have a hard time judging between 47 and 52 yards and my eyes just arn't that good,
and I dont shoot pro because I spend all my money on travel and I dont have the $ to cover pro fees,
and I dont want to Have to shoot Sunday.

oh. Mr. Maich, Most if not all the top 3d archers are also the top indoor and outdoor target archers. 3d is what they spend most of their time and practice on and it is where they make the majority of their money (money earned from actual shooting). I think you are so bound in bubble wrap it has distorted your vision. Those 8x42 binos I use don't compare to the 20x60x80 spotting scopes used in fita and I dont get to use a range finder or a cut chart at my 3d events.


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## XTRMN8R

and a little reminder,

on the OAA emblem it reads target, field, 3D, bowhunting.

I think that the thousands of hours volunteered over the life span of the oaa has been put in by folks that come from all disciplines. I believe strongly that All members of the OAA want to see their money wisely spent and most would like it to be spent fairly. 

so, we as members show up to the agm and have a look at the books. if we like what we see eveything is great and if not we move forward from there.

One thing I would like to add and maybe some of you folks could provide some input...I see that there is a VP of bowhunting? Is there a VP of 3D? I am not sure if 3D is well represented within the OAA? maybe we just need a person on the inside to represent the intrests of ALL instead of folks that may have a one sided view.


----------



## Wiz w/a Sceptre

Oh I get it, don't worry. Everyone else is getting it to. Can't judge past 47 yards, yeah I get it. No monies to compete in the top class because of travel expenses, yeah I get it. What I get is big fish, small pond syndrome. I travel to the US to shoot NCAA indoors and field as well as my colleagues and we aren't crying over funding from the oaa, so what gives, what do you guys really want ? What piece of the pie. The only thing that has come out of this thread is that if you don't get what you want you are taking your pail and shovels and going home - proven point.

So what do you want, I offered to start the pot for funding, but you guys need to play in the pro class and some members agreed - no biggie.

I even suggested tacking on 20 - 50 on oaa registration who are bound to the 3d practice . What no takers

Am I making my point Dave, have I driven it home for you, you didn't even need take out 

I don't see any masses of 3d shooters chiming in here to support you gentlemen in your endeavors. You don't fulfill your dreams on the back of commoners, you man up and do it yourself. Deitmar is prime example. He made what is stopping you. But dont you dare exclude the rest of the clubs in Ontario, everyone gets a fair shot. OAA.

And don't you dare pontificate to me that I'm in a bubble. I work on global basis everyday, i see all aspects and am very good at judging said individuals and posses everyday. You guys take the cake.

Now let's get down to the root of the issue, what do YOU want. There are thousands of 3d shooters in ontario, thousands. Go ask them all to support your ideas, but be clear an honest with them. In fact, I think your little group should run this sub function of the oaa that way everyone has a clear idea of what your objectives are. You can start with a vision statement, draw up your objectives, define your deliverables, state your approach and go for it . There I,ve handed it to you. Not many companies or orgs can get through defining the steps. Fill in the blanks. But just be clear


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## FiFi

XTRMN8R said:


> and a little reminder,
> 
> on the OAA emblem it reads target, field, 3D, bowhunting.
> 
> I think that the thousands of hours volunteered over the life span of the oaa has been put in by folks that come from all disciplines. I believe strongly that All members of the OAA want to see their money wisely spent and most would like it to be spent fairly.
> 
> so, we as members show up to the agm and have a look at the books. if we like what we see eveything is great and if not we move forward from there.
> 
> One thing I would like to add and maybe some of you folks could provide some input...I see that there is a VP of bowhunting? Is there a VP of 3D? I am not sure if 3D is well represented within the OAA? maybe we just need a person on the inside to represent the intrests of ALL instead of folks that may have a one sided view.


There is a VP Bowhunting/ibep, Larry Heaslip, 3-D is covered by the VP tournaments Andy Craig. Been asking for decades for the 3-d crowd to show and participate inside the OAA who knows maybe this might be different


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## JDoupe

Wiz w/a Sceptre said:


> Oh I get it, don't worry. Everyone else is getting it to. Can't judge past 47 yards, yeah I get it. No monies to compete in the top class because of travel expenses, yeah I get it. What I get is big fish, small pond syndrome. I travel to the US to shoot NCAA indoors and field as well as my colleagues and we aren't crying over funding from the oaa, so what gives, what do you guys really want ? What piece of the pie. The only thing that has come out of this thread is that if you don't get what you want you are taking your pail and shovels and going home - proven point.
> 
> So what do you want, I offered to start the pot for funding, but you guys need to play in the pro class and some members agreed - no biggie.
> 
> I even suggested tacking on 20 - 50 on oaa registration who are bound to the 3d practice . What no takers
> 
> Am I making my point Dave, have I driven it home for you, you didn't even need take out
> 
> I don't see any masses of 3d shooters chiming in here to support you gentlemen in your endeavors. You don't fulfill your dreams on the back of commoners, you man up and do it yourself. Deitmar is prime example. He made what is stopping you. But dont you dare exclude the rest of the clubs in Ontario, everyone gets a fair shot. OAA.
> 
> And don't you dare pontificate to me that I'm in a bubble. I work on global basis everyday, i see all aspects and am very good at judging said individuals and posses everyday. You guys take the cake.
> 
> Now let's get down to the root of the issue, what do YOU want. There are thousands of 3d shooters in ontario, thousands. Go ask them all to support your ideas, but be clear an honest with them. In fact, I think your little group should run this sub function of the oaa that way everyone has a clear idea of what your objectives are. You can start with a vision statement, draw up your objectives, define your deliverables, state your approach and go for it . There I,ve handed it to you. Not many companies or orgs can get through defining the steps. Fill in the blanks. But just be clear


Wow. That certainly sounds like a personal attack.

I may not agree with Dave or Blake on all there ideas. But they are ideas. Opinions. 

I don't think either of these two guys are looking for a free ride. I actually think blake has said......I don't want money, I'll do it myself.

Maybe I read things wrong?

Opinions have been expressed that money could be better used....and hopefully we will see some numbers at the AGM (...if someone actually uses the proper channels and emails Adam and asks).

I think thes two guys have the right intent,making 3D better in Ontario, just that their ideas / opinions may be different than someone else's.


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## JDoupe

I am going to respectfully back out of this conversation.

My toung hurts from biting it so often.

Hope to see all of you at the AGM.


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## Bow bandit

Hey Miach, did not say I was leaving here! I would not give you the pleasure. I think you are the one who is missguided. When was the last time you shot any competitive event out of this province and came close to placing and your comments about 3D only shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Tell you what big guy and I mean big guy just so it's in the lights for you, put up the money for semi pro next year and I will go shoot it. You think I am afraid or hide you are sadly mistaken! As I said before I fund myself and shoot what I can afford. I routinely shoot higher scores than any open shooter in this province with pins. Any time you would like to find out and get some exercise come on out. So you think unmarked 3D is not hard, check the scores that Dietmar shot at the worlds in a seniors class then a week later he goes and wins fort vanlier, which is harder I wonder? What is wrong with people asking questions and trying to improve the sport do you and your friends have something to hide. Hope to see you on the range or in the cage next year bubba and I mean BuBBa. Now take your toys back to the sand box junior.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre

last post to this thread, then I'm out

BLAKE, you WIN. I give.

You have summed it perfectly in this post.

It's not about me, never was, will never be. It is all in reality about giving opportunity to our youth.

Not about marked or unmarked - left field stuff, come back into the huddle. Where is this coming from ?

As for the BuBBa comment, I've been called worse by better persons, you need to get inline.

You Blake have "routinely shoot higher scores than any open shooter in this province with pins. Any time you (meaning me) would like to find out and get some exercise come on out." - that is just a narcissistic comment, it begs why, it really does. really, are you OK.
I wonder how your colleagues are taking that one. As for me, I'm a nobody. Dangerous ground narcissism - the aftermath is usually not pretty.

You Blake want me to "put up the money for semi pro next year and you will go shoot it". - Thats what its all about isn't it, someone paying for your ride. Keeps coming back to this and you keep jumping in. Look down, see lots of holes in your shoes. I wonder how your colleagues are taking that one. HMMMMM

This whole thread is about you isn't it Blake, you hide behind the funding but that is certainly not what has transpired. ME, ME, ME, look what i can do, I'm special, fund me. TAKE, TAKE, TAKE. I wonder how your colleagues are taking that one.

You have provided me with ample laughter and entertainment, please don't take any of it to heart. 
Best of Luck in your future archery endeavours.
its been fun







Bow bandit said:


> Hey Miach, did not say I was leaving here! I would not give you the pleasure. I think you are the one who is missguided. When was the last time you shot any competitive event out of this province and came close to placing and your comments about 3D only shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Tell you what big guy and I mean big guy just so it's in the lights for you, put up the money for semi pro next year and I will go shoot it. You think I am afraid or hide you are sadly mistaken! As I said before I fund myself and shoot what I can afford. I routinely shoot higher scores than any open shooter in this province with pins. Any time you would like to find out and get some exercise come on out. So you think unmarked 3D is not hard, check the scores that Dietmar shot at the worlds in a seniors class then a week later he goes and wins fort vanlier, which is harder I wonder? What is wrong with people asking questions and trying to improve the sport do you and your friends have something to hide. Hope to see you on the range or in the cage next year bubba and I mean BuBBa. Now take your toys back to the sand box junior.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

wow this when I wish we had pics of the people speaking or commenting here ..handles cover stuff up .. this david guy does not know me and I don`t think I saw him at my CHARITY SHOOT which again will be able to give the local hospital 2k ... No one has asked for the oaa to be audited or disassembled here ... all the membership that is fee paying and in good standing is asking for and looks to me is accountability.....


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## CLASSICHUNTER

Well guys I have made a FORMAL request to the oaa by e-mail this morning for a complete broken down finacial for the agm and a question and answer period on this.... and no one better say this is not the place to discuss this ..just following protocol ...


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## Stash

I don't think anyone said (or intended to say) that the OAA finances *couldn't* be discussed here. Only that this wasn't the place to post "official" documents of the OAA and have someone who *officially* represents the OAA discuss details. That is an internal thing that should be for OAA members only.

Now, it's obvious that after the AGM when the numbers have been shown to the membership, someone will post or refer to details in the financial statements. 

Ted: please let us know how long it takes to get a reply through the same channels.


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## Bow bandit

You are right Mr Miach, it is about me. I have the right to speak up about something I have paid into and been a part of for a very long time. You have such a personal dislike for me obviously you can't see past what this original post was all about. I apologize to everyone that had to read it. Like I said before I don't want your money keep it, but do not try to judge me or pretend to have any knowledge of what I stand for from the safety of your keyboard. I think I maybe have seen you 3 times in ten years and never had any words with you, so if your only problem is my opinion based of my own personal experiences you will have to learn to live with it! We live in a free country. I can tell you that when anyone in the past has any opinion about making change in the OAA people like yourself come out of the woodwork with the personal attacks to try and derail the process everytime. I know what I want out of this hobby and if that bothers you I am sorry, but when you come on here and put words in my mouth or call into question my abilities or dedication to the sport the response is never going to be a good one. I was also asked to take the funding this year at the oaa and declined, your comments are so off base it is laughable, I hope you found what you were looking for. Have a nice day! And agian sorry to everyone that was pulled into this mess I was truly trying to do something to help archery in Ontario but got caugt up in personal attacks. Mr Kelly you are on the right track stay the course and see where it goes, good luck. It is now hunting season.


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## cheaplaughs

Still a few days before moose opener bow bandit


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## Bigjono

Ok so as I shoot RU the funding wouldn't be for me anyway. Is the OAA only bothered about target and compounds?


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## H.M. Murdock

XTRMN8R said:


> and a little reminder,
> 
> on the OAA emblem it reads target, field, 3D, bowhunting.
> 
> I think that the thousands of hours volunteered over the life span of the oaa has been put in by folks that come from all disciplines. I believe strongly that All members of the OAA want to see their money wisely spent and most would like it to be spent fairly.
> 
> so, we as members show up to the agm and have a look at the books. if we like what we see eveything is great and if not we move forward from there.
> 
> One thing I would like to add and maybe some of you folks could provide some input...I see that there is a VP of bowhunting? Is there a VP of 3D? I am not sure if 3D is well represented within the OAA? maybe we just need a person on the inside to represent the intrests of ALL instead of folks that may have a one sided view.





FiFi said:


> There is a VP Bowhunting/ibep, Larry Heaslip, 3-D is covered by the VP tournaments Andy Craig. Been asking for decades for the 3-d crowd to show and participate inside the OAA who knows maybe this might be different


Lets not forget that there is a FCA lasion and Zone Directors to represent 3D archery in Ontario


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## shakyshot

Can't we all just get along??

:beer:


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## XTRMN8R

wow! i just had a look at all the positions available within the OAA.
board directors,zone directors, vice presidents, commitee members, co-ordinators.....
... it strikes me that as a person so much involved in both hunting and 3D that I was not aware that so many positions exist, that the people in those roles do not seem to be visible and that I am totally unaware of what all those people are actually doing????

this is in no way a slight. If all these roles are filled I as an OAA member would love to know what these folks are doing all year. maybe myself and other guys dedicated to archery could assist. Maybe we need a newsletter? This is what I mean by Value for our money. We may be getting good value but we have no way of knowing.


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## hoody123

XTRMN8R said:


> wow! i just had a look at all the positions available within the OAA.
> board directors,zone directors, vice presidents, commitee members, co-ordinators.....
> ... it strikes me that as a person so much involved in both hunting and 3D that I was not aware that so many positions exist, that the people in those roles do not seem to be visible and that I am totally unaware of what all those people are actually doing????
> 
> this is in no way a slight. If all these roles are filled I as an OAA member would love to know what these folks are doing all year. maybe myself and other guys dedicated to archery could assist. Maybe we need a newsletter? This is what I mean by Value for our money. We may be getting good value but we have no way of knowing.


Um, I'm pretty sure that NONE of those positions are remunerated, so if ANYONE is doing them, the membership is getting GREAT bang for their buck.


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## kiwitahi

If Hollywood get's hold of this thread, you'lle have all the funding ever needed. I here reality T.V pay's big bucks these day's LOL!! Happy shooting!!!


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## Stash

XTRMN8R said:


> positions available within the OAA....
> ...board directors,zone directors, vice presidents, committee members, co-ordinators.....
> ...the people in those roles do not seem to be visible and that I am totally unaware of what all those people are actually doing


All of these positions and the job descriptions are on the OAA website https://www.oaa-archery.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=35 chapters 7-10

The Executive consists of the President, the Sec/Treasurer, the Admin VP, Marketing VP, Tournaments VP, Athlete Development VP, Bowhunting VP, Past President. These people are charged with the actual decision-making of the OAA and they and the various Committee chairpeople (judging, coaching, membership services), are responsible for the things you see - administering the finances, dealing with the government, dealing with insurance matters, administering the membership, operating the website, publishing the tournament directory, organizing the tournaments, administrating the teams, keeping records, assigning judges, tracking certified coaches and instructors, checking courses for safety (for insurance purposes), stuff like that.

You may not be aware of what these "unseen" people are doing, but if they weren't doing their jobs you would notice. May would not be of interest to a pure 3D shooter, but the OAA is supposed to cover all aspects of archery and all of these positions are of importance. 

One person could probably do all of this, but it would have to be a full-time paid (executive director) position, or a very dedicated individual who didn't have to also work for a living. And in any event it would all have to be supervised by an elected group of people to ensure everyone in the OAA was fairly represented.

Some of these positions actually don't have much to do.

The 5 Zone Directors, for example, are supposed to be elected by clubs in their zones, but I don't ever recall any such election being held, simply because there has never been more than one nominee. These people generally have to be armwrestled into volunteering. They are supposed to be liasons between the clubs and the OAA Board. However, with modern communications being as convenient they are and travel being as expensive as it is, people with issues with the OAA tend to go directly to the Executive rather than channel them through the Zone Directors as they did years ago. The ZDs are however important as they do offer advice and decision-making at the Board of Directors level.

I don't bowhunt, and have little knowledge of the activities of the The Bowhunting VP, IBEP and the BH zone directors so I'm not going to comment on that area.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

stash sent it thursday the 6th at about 9 am and have not received even a confirmation of receiving it also cc myself on it and I know yahoos clock is california time not ours so sent 5 hours before time received by me ..I did receive my copy immediately when sent.. if my timing is right but it was thurs am I think.. also no failure notices so I know everybody cc got it and sent to oaa presd...


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## Stash

Ummm... dumb question...did you _*ask*_ for a reply? Just asking.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

of course even just a reply that it was received...even though I would of got a delivery failure which I did not and also cc myself so I know it went through...


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## CaptainT

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> stash sent it thursday the 6th at about 9 am and have not received even a confirmation of receiving it also cc myself on it and I know yahoos clock is california time not ours so sent 5 hours before time received by me ..I did receive my copy immediately when sent.. if my timing is right but it was thurs am I think.. also no failure notices so I know everybody cc got it and sent to oaa presd...


Unfortunately I haven't been sitting at my home PC since the time you said the email was sent. When I am home and have read it I will respond. In the meantime, discussing the OAA's financials is on the agenda and has been since I posted it a month ago.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

My request to you was for a written full broken down copy at agm .... not just a discussion ... when we have a full copy in our hands then we can ask educated reasonable questions thanks again


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## Stash

Yes, I want to know exactly what happened to the box of 500 paper clips the OAA bought at Staples on January 17th. They have 337 left and can only account for 132 of the other 163. 

WHERE ARE THE OTHER 31 PAPER CLIPS???


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## CLASSICHUNTER

remember stash take care of the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves spoken to me by a multi millionaire friend of mine ..oh and he still has his millions and then some...


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## Stash

Well, then hit him up for a donation for the OAA 3D travel fund.  It's deductible!


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## Stash

I guess that's how the Government works. They pester me for that $32.75 I underpaid in income tax last year, but they don't worry about the $millions they wasted on the Ontario Health thing, ORNGE or Bev Oda.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

ya he makes big donations to hospitals and such....


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## Grey Eagle

Wow, what year is it again?............ Wait doesn't matter cause its same as it ever was.

I hope the AGM is packed, packed with passionate people willing to lend a hand, regardless of their reasons for doing so.

Adam, you (and the remainder of the board) have my sincere thank you for all your efforts during your tenure. You exceeded my expectations and whomever fills your shoes has a high mark to hit. Good luck in your future endevours and maybe now you can shoot and hunt a little more..........


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## CaptainT

Grey Eagle said:


> Wow, what year is it again?............ Wait doesn't matter cause its same as it ever was.
> 
> I hope the AGM is packed, packed with passionate people willing to lend a hand, regardless of their reasons for doing so.
> 
> Adam, you (and the remainder of the board) have my sincere thank you for all your efforts during your tenure. You exceeded my expectations and whomever fills your shoes has a high mark to hit. Good luck in your future endevours and maybe now you can shoot and hunt a little more..........


Thank you for the kind words. They are much appreciated.


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