# Nuts & Bolts of competitive archery?



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

with all the talk about what should and shouldn't be in this forum and seeing all the talk of "elitists" mentality by the newbies, what do you guys think about having a "nuts & bolts" area specifically for them? 

My though is that there is absolutely no way anyone can get upset at this. It takes care of the beginners that really don't know where to post, it takes care of the people that have shot for a while but no real competition experience; all while having the trusted long time competitors chime in and help- exactly what the newbies want.


I like the idea of term "nuts & bolts"...kind of says the basics without saying basic.


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

Unless I am reading your post incorrectly, it is already available. But unfortunately many do not take the effort to CLICK there and do some reading. :dontknow:


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I don't recall seeing it, at least not specific to competition...can you post a link. Less you're referencing some of the stickies.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Nope. Keep it out. Unless you are talking about competition rules, types, and information for organizations. That could be a sticky perhaps. 

There are too many different options for different shooting styles to have just one "AT endorsed" way to do it.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Fury90flier said:


> I don't recall seeing it, at least not specific to competition...can you post a link. Less you're referencing some of the stickies.


Coaches Corner forum. You have to scroll way down to find it.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

1) I wouldn't call it "Nuts and Bolts" unless Nuts & Bolts (Alan) wrote it
2) Someone would need to go through the effort of writing such a thread/article...are you volunteering? Alan's article is quite extensive....I imagine it was quite a task to put that all together.
3) People would need to read it to make it useful. The original Nuts and Bolts of Archery has been up for a LONG time, yet you still see people in Gen arch, with pics of them leaning way back and shooting bows way too long for them, asking if their form looks good. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the idea, just being realistic on the results.
4) IMHO, it can't HURT to have something like that, but it needs to be well written and encompassing as many forms of competitive archery as possible (Indoor spots, FITA, Field, 3-D etc etc).

Off to read the thread aread mentioned.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

cbrunson said:


> Nope. Keep it out. Unless you are talking about competition rules, types, and information for organizations. That could be a sticky perhaps.
> 
> There are too many different options for different shooting styles to have just one "AT endorsed" way to do it.


Exactly what I'm talking about....but not so much as a sticky....some place where the newbies can come in and get help on issues that don't apply to the intermediate/advanced competitior. 

Or maybe a sticky would solve the problem- though I don't see too many people reading that. Seems that all issues to a newbie are "different" than that of similar posts.



aread said:


> Coaches Corner forum. You have to scroll way down to find it.


if it is difficult to find- that's part of the problem. I did look but didn't find anything that would fit the desired goal, which is to have a place for newbies in compeition to have a place to get started without feeling alienated.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Mahly said:


> 1) I wouldn't call it "Nuts and Bolts" unless Nuts & Bolts (Alan) wrote it- what name we use isn't an issue- just a place for newb's to go
> 2) Someone would need to go through the effort of writing such a thread/article...are you volunteering? Alan's article is quite extensive....I imagine it was quite a task to put that all together.- not so much as an article as a forum location.
> 3) People would need to read it to make it useful. The original Nuts and Bolts of Archery has been up for a LONG time, yet you still see people in Gen arch, with pics of them leaning way back and shooting bows way too long for them, asking if their form looks good. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the idea, just being realistic on the results. kind of the problem with the stickies
> 4) IMHO, it can't HURT to have something like that, but it needs to be well written and encompassing as many forms of competitive archery as possible (Indoor spots, FITA, Field, 3-D etc etc). if there is something that is sticky driven, I'd agree it needs to be properly written. That of course would take quite a bit of time but probably moot as it wouldn't be read by those that need it
> ...



What I don't want to do is to have the newbies feel like the only place they can post is in the General section.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Fury90flier said:


> .... if it is difficult to find- that's part of the problem. I did look but didn't find anything that would fit the desired goal, which is to have a place for newbies in compeition to have a place to get started without feeling alienated.


I agree with you about the Coaches Corner forum being difficult to find. 

It's not restricted to competition, but we occasionally get questions about competitive shooting. It's mostly about various form, execution & equipment problems. The guys who frequently post there are careful to avoid being too critical, especially of newbies. 

It could be expanded, renamed and relocated to provide better information to beginner competitive archers. However, the moderators may balk at increasing the number of forums. Or maybe not. I know that it would have been great to have better information when I first started shooting spots.

Allen


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

What might make a beginner’s forum difficult is when someone asks a simple question, and a dozen other noobs give a dozen different answers claiming each to be the correct way on something that is subjective. You end up with a very confused noob that now wants to come here to ask the question. That’s pretty much the general forum anyway. I think we could open this up a little more and just keep out the brand specific, and bashing.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Fury90flier said:


> What I don't want to do is to have the newbies feel like the only place they can post is in the General section.


Lets see the entire reality here.

Newbies already HAVE at their disposal: 
1) General Forum, 
2) Brand specific Forum, 
3) Coaches Corner, 
4) FITA Forum, 
5) 3D Forum,
6) Traditional Form, and
7) Tuning Forum.

Intermediate-Advanced competitive shooters realistically HAVE: 
1) FITA Forum, and
2) This forum.

Really, are 7 current open forums not enough places for newbies to post their generic or basic questions??? Some people are just getting bent and have hurt feelings because they are being directed to the other forums instead of being allowed to post in this forum without regulation. 

Just as we amateur shooters should not protest and make recommendations on how the Pro forums should be run or what materials they should or should not discuss, the novice shooters should not protest and make recommendations about what the intermediate and advanced shooters require and should be discussing. We may all be eating the same cake, but we are also eating it from vastly different layers....


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

I don't think it's getting bent by the referral just the manner. When I first started viewing this forum a few weeks ago the most common answer was ask your question in the general forum. 

On a side note, why not add a little structure that new to AT users can understand? Here's an idea...

Main AT Forum
-Target Archery Forum
-General Target Archery discussion
-Intermediate/Advanced Target discussion


It's really nothing to break the "target forum" into these two sub-categories and keep everyone happy. Could potentially even help those who cannot get a good answer from the general archery forum about a target relates question that is what most in here consider basic knowledge. Other forums don't need this breakdown largely because the culture in that forum is one of help everyone because you were just starting out at one point too. I think if you want an advanced only section, you may have to break it down as above or similar to accommodate everyone.


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## Brendon_t (Aug 12, 2013)

Fury90flier said:


> with all the talk about what should and shouldn't be in this forum and seeing all the talk of "elitists" mentality by the newbies, what do you guys think about having a "nuts & bolts" area specifically for them?
> 
> My though is that there is absolutely no way anyone can get upset at this. It takes care of the beginners that really don't know where to post, it takes care of the people that have shot for a while but no real competition experience; all while having the trusted long time competitors chime in and help- exactly what the newbies want.
> 
> ...


And how many seasoned Archers are going to be hanging around in your newbies only forum answering the questions they ask?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

plenty.


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## Looney Bin (Feb 9, 2009)

montigre said:


> Lets see the entire reality here.
> 
> Newbies already HAVE at their disposal:
> 1) General Forum,
> ...


While I agree with a lot you say. I'm confused as to which topics would be left to discuss in this forum?

Some believe advanced tuning and setup issues don't belong here. Along with some form issues, I do if the discussion is in depth.

I mean if we eliminate everything that relates to tuning, setup, form, stance, releases, BT etc etc... What's left to discuss?? The mental game??

What determines whether one question is newbie, intermediate, advanced or Pro?


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

The indentions on my first post were nullified I guess but basically I'm suggesting a target forum for general target discussion so that when a question about a good rest or rest tuning comes up we don't get 15 replies to go buy a whisker biscuit


One could even put a sub forum at the top of the target forum and call it int/adv. 


I think some kind of break down is gonna be needed to help grow target archery in general and also keep more advanced shooters from having to dig through general knowledge questions. Just a thought....

And yes, plenty of good shooters will hang out and help the newbies with their questions. Paying it forward is the part of the archery culture that I like the most. None of us got here alone....none of us will advance alone.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Looney Bin said:


> What determines whether one question is newbie, intermediate, advanced or Pro?


It's not a question of the topic, but, rather, the character of the topic. There is a vast difference between discussing the benefits of understanding the effects of dynamic spine (which is going on now in another thread) as opposed to discussing what spine arrows should I shoot out of my # bow, or which skinny arrows should I shoot (which were both moved to another forum)... 

We had quite a few of the latter types of questions being posted before this latest house cleaning--so much so that this area appeared no different than Gen Forum.


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## Marksman35 (Jul 25, 2012)

I agree, that's what makes archery one big family. I am pretty advanced archer myself, but I love to help others. Also if you read articles by real pros, they will always say that when they or you have an issue, return to basics. Re-enforce fundamentals for yourself, and help someone be a better archery, awesome deal if you ask me. Thought I do agree that basic questions and questions that don't truly deal with target archery don't belong here.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Wanna throw out some names then? 

Yea a place is needed, but the information needs to provided once an leave it at that- put out a broad spectrum FAQ's so to speak and let those who seek higher end answers or more in-depth deal through this forum(reading, posting, doesn't really matter), PM's, other existing forums. It's not all that difficult to compile a very well put together informational thread with video references by renown archers- takes 15min of searching Facebook or YouTube and you have all the visual references you need.... And the answers to boot. 

Adding more forums isn't helping- it's making each group look petty and putting off the new shooters. Give them the materials and leave the ball in their court- you will never get better if you have to be spoonfed the whole way.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

What area doesn't he have?

Bow tuning forum - count the n&b replies and pictures to answer the question - http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2120793&p=1068550613#post1068550613

General Discussion - count the n&b replies and pictures to answer the question - http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2230579&p=1069924694#post1069924694
Alan's Nuts&Bolts of Archery isn't this long, is it? I've got it, but I ain't looking to see....

Now, is this what you want to see?


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## Looney Bin (Feb 9, 2009)

montigre said:


> It's not a question of the topic, but, rather, the character of the topic. There is a vast difference between discussing the benefits of understanding the effects of dynamic spine (which is going on now in another thread) as opposed to discussing what spine arrows should I shoot out of my # bow, or which skinny arrows should I shoot (which were both moved to another forum)...
> 
> We had quite a few of the latter types of questions being posted before this latest house cleaning--so much so that this area appeared no different than Gen Forum.


Ok, so we agree its the character and how indepth the topic is.

I'll certainly agree the string color and arrow selection threads started turning this into Gen Pop II. So much so that I rarely visited this forum after they keep coming up repeatedly.


I thought this forum was going well the first several weeks before it turned, but I still don't want to turn off new target shooters too much. I mean the real goal besides knowledge for personal achievement is to grow the sport.


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## Marksman35 (Jul 25, 2012)

N7790K & sonnythomas are you guys directing you questions at me?


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Nah, I wasn't referring to you bud- I know what you said is true, blank bale is your friend 

Mine was at fury90 in regards to his comment on the lines of scores of advance shooters spending time in a "basic" forum to give guidance...


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## Marksman35 (Jul 25, 2012)

Cool, I didn't want to appear as argumentative, but at the same time I didn't want to seem rude or like I was dodging the question.

I hope Fury90 is right, however given how rude AT has been to real pros in the past, you may have a point.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Marksman35 said:


> Cool, I didn't want to appear as argumentative, but at the same time I didn't want to seem rude or like I was dodging the question.
> I hope Fury90 is right, however given how rude AT has been to real pros in the past, you may have a point.


I think many of us are passionate about the integrity of this forum and about archery in general... This passion often brings out the best and the not so good in all of us at times....

But Jacob is a Real Pro....hehe....and thankfully one of the few who still ventures into this occasional quagmire....lol!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Marksman35 said:


> N7790K & sonnythomas are you guys directing you questions at me?


??? Didn't think so... Hold on, give ya a PM.


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## miko0618 (Mar 3, 2005)

I think archery needs an encyclopedia. That would solve some issues. Then leave the discussion to theory.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

if the discussion is on theory i'm walking out now- i can make anything look good on paper. I'm not one for going by what looks good on paper....


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Fury90flier said:


> with all the talk about what should and shouldn't be in this forum and seeing all the talk of "elitists" mentality by the newbies, what do you guys think about having a "nuts & bolts" area specifically for them?
> 
> My though is that there is absolutely no way anyone can get upset at this. It takes care of the beginners that really don't know where to post, it takes care of the people that have shot for a while but no real competition experience; all while having the trusted long time competitors chime in and help- exactly what the newbies want.
> 
> ...


au contraire


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## miko0618 (Mar 3, 2005)

Without a fact checking system, everything you discuss is theory.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

N7709K said:


> Wanna throw out some names then?
> 
> Yea a place is needed, but the information needs to provided once an leave it at that- put out a broad spectrum FAQ's so to speak and let those who seek higher end answers or more in-depth deal through this forum(reading, posting, doesn't really matter), PM's, other existing forums. It's not all that difficult to compile a very well put together informational thread with video references by renown archers- takes 15min of searching Facebook or YouTube and you have all the visual references you need.... And the answers to boot.
> 
> Adding more forums isn't helping- it's making each group look petty and putting off the new shooters. Give them the materials and leave the ball in their court- you will never get better if you have to be spoonfed the whole way.


Listing all the competition related forums under one group may help (Competitive Archery perhaps). This one is under ArcheryTalk Forums (aren't they all?); FITA, 3D, Field are under Misc; Coaches Corner under AHA. Make it simpler by not having to jump around the whole site.


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## CrestonBailey (Jul 15, 2012)

Honestly folks, I have never competed before, but have been interested in the possbility soon. I was at a local store the other night (that I had never been to before) and was asked if I was interested in joining a league. My first thought was, I am no where good enough to do something like that. But the lady explained it was a handicap league and a very social event. I started thinking pretty hard about it, but I really had no idea of what questions to even ask. My experience has been just putting arrows down range at my local facility and trying to improve my shooting. But I also think it might be fun to do some local events and see just how bad (or possibly decent) I am. It would also be a great opportunity to learn more about shooting. But before I go getting into something, and making myself totally look stupid, I think it would be a great idea to have a nuts and bolts section where noobs, who are interested in possbily doing a first competition could find out some basics/ask questions. From what I have read there are just so many different things.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

The thing that would probably help you most at this point is joining a local club and start shooting with the regulars. In time, you will know the questions you will need to ask and in time, they will probably start giving you direct pointers. Shooting with a bunch of friends at a local club is a gret way to break into the sport--team up with them every now and again at local shoots to get your feet wet and practice, practice, practice!! 

You will not have access to this wealth of free information and guidance if you just stick to shooting in your backyard...


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

don't worry about looking stupid...it's OK, you WILL look stupid, just accept it--we've all been there ((Some of us still look stupid))....let me see (looking at the mirror right now- Yep, I still look like that)lol

We completely understand the reservation due to being new. Just get out there, meet some people and have fun. One of the best ways to improve your skill set is to shoot with people better than yourelf.


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