# Comparison of .166 arrows



## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

I like the carbon express nano. Pretty tough so far, and LAS sells them by the half dozen with vanes or feathers for $59. Not too bad. I mean.... don't shoot the ground with them. Or you know.. steel.


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## chase128 (May 29, 2015)

The team I support has seen good performance out of the VAPS (V1s and V3s), though in my experience they are on the fragile side. (especially the points . . . they bend / deform oddly easy)

Have you also looked at the new Gold Tip Pierce (and pierce tour) lines? They have the .166 inner as well, and I have heard good things about the durability from my local shop.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Oh yes, the points on the Carbon Express Nano are cheap. Relatively soft. Scarred up with my pliers when i put them in. Forgot to mention that.


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/victory-vap-target-elite-arrow-shaft-w-2016-logo.html

I think this is where you want to be. Without spending huge money. If your missing at 90 , chances are you expecting results your not ready to give yet. 

Get a solid Walkback Tune , then make micro pressure adjustments on your plunger when your going long. Its everything, to get a nice vertical arrow drop.


Everything between 500 and 900 are not listed, but someone may have them online.


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## 10X Archer (Mar 7, 2016)

Vap's are by far the most common. However I am very excited about the Fivics mach1 shaft. I found out from one of the Lancaster people that they should be in stock in about 4 weeks and have a 0.166 ID. This means that there points (http://www.lancasterarchery.com/fivics-mach3-break-off-point.html) should be a good replacement for the less then ideal vap points.

If Fivics delivers on what they say they will be my new field arrows and might be the go-to recurve .166 shaft.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

I like the VAPs for field but the points are a bit expensive and not terribly durable. I am curious to see the less expensive options since field archery poses a definite risk of missing the target, so arrow durability is important.


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## Rael84 (Feb 22, 2016)

You can get VAPs for much cheaper on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTORY-Vap...hash=item33c706ab93:m:m5LXxXdb74W6P37sNpb-CMg


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## manderson1 (Jun 14, 2016)

Lancaster has the VAP target on special right now


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## Ermine (Jul 17, 2016)

I'm a huge fan of the Goldtip Platinum Pierces. (Haven't tried the tours yet). But these arrows are super accurate and very tough. I also like goldtips insert/weight module system.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Straightness is overrated, but it's a spec that manufacturers know will sell product.

What they won't often advertise is spine consistency, which is much more important than straightness for a finger shooter.


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Few years ago I shot easton platinums vs easton x7. Big difference on grouping at 18m. X7 spins like glass on your hand vs platinum that I can feel a bit vibrations.platinums on red grouping vs gold!... I consider straightness a lot.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

It's a wonder how Frangilli ever set an indoor WR with those lowly Platinum Plus.


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## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

10X Archer said:


> However I am very excited about the Fivics mach1 shaft.


Yeah, I'm excited about these arrows too: a tri-spine arrow for $8.33!


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Omg 3spine mach1?? Thats crazy..Gonna have to try that! Nano xtreme are my favorite such forgiving arrow.


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Theres also a .166 arrow at Alternative archery called avalon classic at .005 straightness for $55 then avalon tech one straightness.001 for $65? Worth trying


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## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> What they won't often advertise is spine consistency, which is much more important than straightness for a finger shooter.


What arrows are best known for spine consistency? Or do we just have to check them all like Vittorio checked those Platinum Pluses? =]


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Arrows known for spine consistency from what I have own top of my list Mckinney II, X7, ACE...on the cheap arrows side would be definitely Medallion XR


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## 10X Archer (Mar 7, 2016)

There are also cheap 0.166 arrows on Merlin Archery called Mybo Hailstorm


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## Thiago Santos (Mar 12, 2016)

Would you choose Avalon Tec one or Carbon express nano .166 both 400 spine for compound? (or not .166 the Gold Tip Kinetic Pierce .006 straightness ?)


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

I've been thoroughly impressed with the Easton Carbon Ones that my wife is shooting. She's shooting 810s out of her compound, only drawing 40lbs and shooting 90gr points, and they fly great and are surprisingly tough. She's had 3 release mishaps while letting down, she's not always the best at removing her finger from the trigger on her release, and has sent one through a tree branch behind the target, she centered one in the base of a pine tree behind the target and just today she put one through the top wood board of our Big Boy archery target. All 3 of those arrows pulled out and were perfectly fine to shoot again. No bent points, no cracks or even scrapes of the carbon. The points show no signs of hitting anything at all really. It's actually kind of unbelievable for such a light spine weight arrow to be that tough.


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

Bump for the carbon ones. Used them for a a few years before moving up to ACEs. A very durable shaft, I've shot several times into wood frames, and they always came out undamaged.


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## RickBac (Sep 18, 2011)

+1 for straightness not as important as spine consistency to me.

I spine check all the arrows for my boys, myself and the competitive archers in my club. 

It is amazing the spread in spine that can come from very expensive arrows. Some are not much better in spread than entry level arrows.


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## tooold (Jul 26, 2015)

I have always liked Carbon Ones but they don't make a shaft stiff enough for my current set up.


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

My buddy shoots these for target and 3D. He loves them. I shoot C1's with a recurve and would consider them for compound if I could get the right spine and / or tune them properly.
From Lancaster:

• VAP (Victory Armor Piercing)
• Micro inner diameter (.166") for maximum speed and penetration
• 100% high modulus carbon fiber for strength and durability
• Victory's spine alignment process for increased accuracy and tighter grouping
• Nano ceramic "ICE" coating improves penetration and allows for easy removal from targets
• Industry leading straightness and weight tolerances
• Includes VAP Shok aluminum insert and F - nock
• Elite +/- 0.001"
• 250 (9.8 gpi), 300 (8.7 gpi), 350 (7.8 gpi), 400 (7.1 gpi), 450 (6.7 gpi), 500 (6.0 gpi)


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> It's a wonder how Frangilli ever set an indoor WR with those lowly Platinum Plus.


same way Darrell shot a 1341 with first generation X7 arrows (IIRC) in 1979 with glue on nocks


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

I got a few dozen of the VAP V1's when they were on sale at Lancaster, and I have to say that they are fragile. The Carbon Ones I used previously were much more durable.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

I can tell you NOT to use ACE's if surviving a hard impact or robin hood, etc. is what you need. That said, without a doubt they're best outdoor arrow I've ever shot (compound), they group better than anything I've ever tried and you don't have cull many, if any, from a dozen for being out of spec. 

But they're really fragile on the back end. I've lost them hitting just a hard spot in a target and even had the back end snap completely off when hitting metal at 20 yards. 

So ACE's are absolutely awesome especially for low-poundage compounds shooting-wise, but they'll put you in the poor house if you're not shooting anything other than nice block targets.

When I run out of my current stock of ACE's I'm also considering either victories or Carbon Ones. ACE's are just too expensive unless you're a lotto winner....

lee.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> It's a wonder how Frangilli ever set an indoor WR with those lowly Platinum Plus.


Anyone recall what Rick shot when he set the outdoor record so many years ago!


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## DNez2001 (Sep 3, 2017)

RickBac said:


> +1 for straightness not as important as spine consistency to me.
> 
> I spine check all the arrows for my boys, myself and the competitive archers in my club.
> 
> It is amazing the spread in spine that can come from very expensive arrows. Some are not much better in spread than entry level arrows.


How are you checking the spine? Would love to be doing this as well.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Everyone worries about not having the right tool, or the tool is too expensive however all you need is a board with two nails, a good ruler, some string and an appropriate weight. For the purpose of being a spine consistancy test you don’t even need it to be super accurate as far as weights and rulers. You are primarily looking for the same spine.

Put two nails in a board 29” apart. 
Support both ends of the arrow on the nails, 
Hang the weight with a string or hook, in the center of the span.
Measure the deflection.
If you go through this procedure, you can even turn the arrows and find the stiffer direction and index the shaft too.

But thats all you need for a consistancy test.

If you want to know exactly the spine, then you need calibrated gear, but for a beginnerr just trying to get the best result from entry level arrows, there you go.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

dchan said:


> Anyone recall what Rick shot when he set the outdoor record so many years ago!


1352


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

dchan said:


> Everyone worries about not having the right tool, or the tool is too expensive however all you need is a board with two nails, a good ruler, some string and an appropriate weight. For the purpose of being a spine consistancy test you don’t even need it to be super accurate as far as weights and rulers. You are primarily looking for the same spine.
> 
> Put two nails in a board 29” apart.
> Support both ends of the arrow on the nails,
> ...


Even better, 3 radial bearings and something to support 2 of them on the ends. Put one bearing around the middle of the shaft and hang your weight on it. With the bearings, you can slowly rotate the shaft and you'll actually feel the stiff plane of the arrow.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

lksseven said:


> 1352


thanks however was wondering which arrows?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Huntinsker said:


> Even better, 3 radial bearings and something to support 2 of them on the ends. Put one bearing around the middle of the shaft and hang your weight on it. With the bearings, you can slowly rotate the shaft and you'll actually feel the stiff plane of the arrow.


This is true, however with "cheaper" arrows, the sizing of the Outside diameter tends to vary quite a bit and unless you get a snug fit on the shaft, and have a soft gripy surface to support them on the ends, (more engineering and building) the bearings will probably not help much. and then this starts to become a bigger task than most beginner's or starting out archers would want to do. 

If the shaft does not slightly grip the radial bearing, it will just slip and rotate without actually turning the bearing. Unless you buy very expensive low friction bearings this is usually the case. I used rubber surfaced bearings on my arrow cresting jig, and even those tend to "slip" against my arrows rather than turn so while they work to keep my work centered, they really don't contribute to a real smooth turning arrow. 

I'm not saying that the bearings would not be an improvement, but if price of tool and complexity of build are an issue. The nails in a board with string and weight, will do pretty much the same job. 

I think over the many years of shooting and testing, long before carbon arrows were affordable, that with Alloy arrows, straightness was almost as important as spine consistency, however with the advent of Carbon, and testing of these arrows, we found that the straightness is not as important.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

dchan said:


> This is true, however with "cheaper" arrows, the sizing of the Outside diameter tends to vary quite a bit and unless you get a snug fit on the shaft, and have a soft gripy surface to support them on the ends, (more engineering and building) the bearings will probably not help much. and then this starts to become a bigger task than most beginner's or starting out archers would want to do.
> 
> If the shaft does not slightly grip the radial bearing, it will just slip and rotate without actually turning the bearing. Unless you buy very expensive low friction bearings this is usually the case. I used rubber surfaced bearings on my arrow cresting jig, and even those tend to "slip" against my arrows rather than turn so while they work to keep my work centered, they really don't contribute to a real smooth turning arrow.
> 
> ...


You don't have to be exact at all. Just get bearings large enough to fit the shaft inside. The shafts will rotate the bearings very easily. I do it all the time. Sometimes I'll use my Pine Ridge arrow spinner too. I cut slots in some scrap pieces of 2x4 that I can slide the ends of the arrow spinner down into and position them however far apart I want. I put a single bearing over the shaft, set the shaft on the spinner and hang the weight. Rotate the shaft and you can feel the stiff plane of the shaft. Add a dial indicator to the mix and you can watch it move as you rotate the shaft, just like a RAM spine tester but way cheaper.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Again, you can go through all that but I found I was able to do the same with a 2x4, 2 bright finished nails, a piece of fishing line and a 2 lb fishing weight. The bright finsh nails are smooth enough and hard enough to not offer much friction. The monofiliment line also low enough friction to easily slide.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

dchan said:


> thanks however was wondering which arrows?


Experimental pre-x10 big barrel

I think*



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## HC Stones (Apr 19, 2018)

I am a big fan of VAP arrows, they have been durable for me, breaking only when i shoot metal bars because I am a scrub. As for the points, they only deform when striking metal for me, and substantial amounts of it. They are perfectly serviceable for anyone not going for the 200+ per dozen arrows. I shoot mine with XS wings and 140gr points. The arrows are shown to be able to group, but the spine chart is less than super helpful as it assumes a 140 target point.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

HC Stones said:


> I am a big fan of VAP arrows, they have been durable for me, breaking only when i shoot metal bars because I am a scrub. As for the points, they only deform when striking metal for me, and substantial amounts of it. They are perfectly serviceable for anyone not going for the 200+ per dozen arrows. I shoot mine with XS wings and 140gr points. The arrows are shown to be able to group, but the spine chart is less than super helpful as it assumes a 140 target point.


Huh? most spine charts presume 100/120gn


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## ForeverNewbie (Feb 21, 2018)

Anybody have some experience with Carbon Express Medallion Pro?
I wonder how is it compared to the Nano .166 for its higher price tag.


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