# Question



## Bushkey (Mar 17, 2006)

What time of the year was it?


----------



## Bushman (Nov 25, 2003)

September 2007. 

The intention of my question is to establish what is considered to be "good manners" - does the farmer charge you a reduced rate, does he offer you a return hunt instead etc Also, how many guys are in it for the day fees etc when they know that they do not have sufficient game or that their farm is overhunted and that the game have become "blind shy" and only feed/drink at night. 

Just want to know your thoughts.....


----------



## RNT (Feb 28, 2007)

First of all around here in Nebraska I hunt strictly does. I will not pay to hunt does as it is strictly for meat, not trophy hunting. I would be especially hacked off if I had to pay for nothing. I have one guy who has hundreds of deer eating his crops and last year he pulled all of us doe archery hunters off of his land so he can lease to try and help offset his losses on crops caused by the deer. I called him this year to see if he changed his mind and how things were going and he told me he purchased the insurance to allow leasing but has no one leasing as of now, and we are right now in the season. He allowed two hunters to come back but they are doing work for him in one of his farm houses. I then just replied that when he gets sick of the does eating his crops he can get a hold of me because I am across the highway from him on another piece of ground who understands that only pay hunters will be trophy hunters and the does will keep multiplying each season and destroying the crops more and more. I know I am off subject but I guess back to your question, the land I am on now we rarely see movement. We know they are there but right now we cant find them and are limited also to certain restrictions as he has other hunters out there. The only thing I have going for me is I have about 4 other farms where they want me to come out and "kill everyone of them". As for now I will never pay to hunt, first I cant afford it, and if you add up the money spent on lease, equiptment, gas, food etc. all attatched to the hunt the one deer could end up costing you over a thousand easily if not many hundreds. We pay $28 for our tags plus gas at $2.80/gallon and I will take as many deer as possible up to about 8-10 does. The way I see it we do farmers a service when we harvest the "field rats" it is IMO quid pro quo (tit for tat) to let people hunt for free as long as they are taking the bulk of the problem. Our deer up here are having twins and sometimes triplets! The area I hunt starts with 8,000 tags at two antlerless deer per tag...thats 16,000 potentionally dead does per year!!!!!!!!!! just for one section of Nebraska. And as of this date the tags never sell out and alot of them are never filled and the population keeps growing. So everyone needs to pull their hineys out of you know where and stop this rediculas leasing BS and allow people like me and my friends to come in and take care of the problem, but most people unfortunately think short term and miss the big picture.....oh well I apologize for the rant but I see desperate people doing things that they think will help them but later is going to hurt them on a larger scale. I would either wait it out to see if the patterns change or find different land. I really hope the best for your hunting this year.


----------



## splayed (Jul 31, 2007)

Hi RNT

Unfortunately there are very few hunting oppurtunities in South Africa (SA) that allow the free shooting of animals. Unlike the US, animals in SA belong to the farmer who's land they inhabit, and most farmers charge for these animals. Bushman in talking about hunting on a game farm that is devoted to the breeding of animals for cropping by hunters. The hunter pays the game farm owner for each animal that he kills. Over and above the price of the animals that a hunter takes, he also normally has to pay a day fee for each day that he hunts on the game farm. Most South Afican hunters are used to these costs in order to "bring home the bacon". Game farming in SA is big business and brings in a lot of money from local and overseas hunters.

What Bushman is concerned about is whether some game farms are letting people come and "hunt" when they know that the hunters will not be able to get any animals. 

The issue is one of unethical business practice by the game farm owners who are perhaps just trying to make money by charging hunters day fees and knowing that the hunter is wasting his time and money by being there. 

Bushman, I think that the only reasonable response from the Game Farmer should be to at least give you some explanation why you did not see any game for two days. If there is game on the farm and it is not shy of the blinds then perhaps the blinds are badly positioned. If there are very few animals on the farm then he is misrepresenting his farm and should give you your money back, or at least a lower day fee charge. If the animals are shy of blinds then he needs to move the blinds, or allow you to walk-and-stalk if you would prefer. And he should not charge you day fees for those extra days you spend there. If he is obstinate about the situation and will not give you a decent response, then either talk to the game farmers association about the farm, or give us the name of the place and we can spread the word that the farm is not worth supporting. 

Any game farm owner that is in it for the day-fees only will soon fnd himself with no business if the hunters stick together and let each other know about game farms that have unethical business practices.

But, the least you should do is to talk to the game farmer about the situation, and give him the oppurtunity to have his say. If you are still not happy, then you can take it further.


----------



## RNT (Feb 28, 2007)

OOOOPS....are you all in Africa?????LOL....my bad, I wasnt aware.


----------



## AK-AZ (May 22, 2006)

RNT said:


> OOOOPS....are you all in Africa?????LOL....my bad, I wasnt aware.


RNT, you are in the South Africa forum, they are discussing things relevant to their area. :wink:


----------



## RNT (Feb 28, 2007)

Yea.....I see that now......LOL.


----------



## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

Bushman,

Booking a hunting trip is always an exciting thing to do. Unfortunately, there are plenty of sharks circling out there, waiting for your money.
Believe me. This does not only apply to local hunters either. 
I've seen foreign hunters get ripped off even worse!

On this one you will have to bite the bullet though. You booked, you stayed and therefore you pay.

A good way to avoid these booking pitfalls is to only hunt on properties that you have been refered to. 
Avoid booking a hunt with a company that you find in the classified section of a magazine, where no name is given or where only one contact number is provided.
If you feel that the classified section is the way to go. Make sure that you ask for references of people that have hunted there before.
If the rancher refuses, leave it at that and keep looking.

Also post the ranch details here on AT so some of the other guys don't get caught by the same outfit.


----------



## Bushkey (Mar 17, 2006)

Yes Bushman, please post the name of the farm you were on. We try to put our good and bad experiences on here to prevent this kind of problems in future.


----------



## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Hi Bushman

It is very unfortunate that you had to experience such a hunt as one is always excited to go on a hunt, hoping that it wont turn out as a nightmare. I wrote an article a while ago where I mentioned the importance of getting referances from the farm where you are heading to. That way you'll have a basic idea of what lies ahead. If the owner does not want to give you any referances, then stuff him!

There are a hell of a lot of game farms that have jumped on the "bowhunting property" bandwagon. They think that if they have some "relatively" tame game and some shrub that it can pass as bowhunters heaven. There are also those that can only think of the $$$$$ that should be coming in any day that they do not take care in the layout of the hides and/or waterholes. Then lastly, popular bowunting properties should at least at some point start thinking of restocking the property if they have a high number of hunters annually. This is also a good for the gene pool of the existing animals on the property to prevent inbreeding and promote trophy quality.

I really feel that you should at least have seen SOMETHING, it can be understood if you only saw other animals than those you were after. After all, the owner can't guarantee you that you'll get a shot at the specific animal your looking for. But not seeing any living thing near a hide in two full days hunting is absurd. Please take the time to ask the owner to give you a WRITTEN answer as to what the cause may be. It can even be done by means of a complaint and answer letter in the Africas Bowhunter.

Anyway, let us know how things turned out.

All the best

Engee


----------



## Bushman (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks for those answers.
True, references beforehand is the way to go.

Also, I believe stick to the bigger places and avoid the smaller places where farmers "stock" their farms at the beginning of hunting season.....

I am going to Rugania near Rustenburg for three days in October. Anyone been there? I have been told by a friend that it is a paradise for bowhunting.


----------



## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Sorry for your experience Bushman. This is a very tricky one, but a problem that definitely needs an answer. 

Firstly, you are hunting right at the tail end of the season. If I were booking, I would strike up a conversation with the owner and ask a few questions, such as when his last count was, how it was done, what species and how many of each he has... Then, in a different tack, how the season has been, whether I should bring a rifle, how successful other rifle hunters have been, and IF HE SAYS THAT THE RIFLE SEASON WAS GOOD, BOOK AT ANOTHER VENUE.

That is likely the reason you saw nothing. The animals on rifle-hunted farms right now are more weary and paranoid than any creature in the known universe. 

Is that also the reason walk-n-stalk is not allowed?


----------



## Drenalinjunkie8 (Sep 19, 2007)

Hi Matatzela,

Are you on the outdoorphoto website as well? If you are then we've spoken on that forum before.

Sorry for hijacking this thread guys.

Thanks


----------



## Karoojager (Dec 20, 2005)

In 2003 I had also no success in 10 days by my hunt at my favour hunting farm and I was in doubt with my self to visit this farm again. Because for me as a overseas hunter it is a lot of money to hunt for nuts in S.A. In next year I had very good successes at the same place again. Till this year I had every year my hunting success at the same farm. Maybe you and you friends stay at a wrong moment at the farm. In my opinion try it again at the same farm, if you have no success the second time you can give bad testimonials about the farm and his management.
I understand you disappointment totally, but some circumstances can change habitats of animals.
Try it again, this is hunting, sometimes good sometimes bad luck.


----------



## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

Hi Bushman,

I've heard good things about Rugania. Never been there myself though.
You guys should try Bushkey's connection. Looks like a great bowhunting ranch with a nice variety of game. There's even a Nyassa strain in the Wildebeest! That alone makes me want to pack my kit and get my ass to that ranch.:tongue:


----------



## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Drenalinjunkie8 said:


> Hi Matatzela,
> 
> Are you on the outdoorphoto website as well? If you are then we've spoken on that forum before.
> 
> ...


That would be me! Bows, cameeras... it's all shooting!


----------



## Drenalinjunkie8 (Sep 19, 2007)

How's your 350d holding out?

Small world after all hey James?


----------



## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

350D is doing okay, but I neeeed a 40D. Things just cost too much.


----------



## Drenalinjunkie8 (Sep 19, 2007)

Wish I had more time for my photography. The only thing that I seem to photograph these days are family weddings and unfortunately I have no way out of it. Wedding are not really one of my favourites if you know what I mean.

The 40d is VERY VERY VERY nice. Wouldn't mind one. Would have bought one by now if it wasnt for all the other hobbies. James what else do you do seeing as I'm running into you everywhere. Spearfishing, airrifle shooting in terms of Ft etc?


----------

