# Anchoring your bow shoulder. Yes or No?



## Oxford (Jun 26, 2002)

A few weeks ago many of us explored the topic of extending your bow arm verses shooting with a bent elbow. The overriding opinion was that a straighter arm was better and many of us changed our form by extending our arms – including myself.

What I also did was extend my shoulder from the socket of my back, as well. The instructor at my shop mentioned that I was holding too much tension with my shoulder muscle (deltoid) and not using the bone-to-bone-to-bone technique. My deltoid is like a rock and I can hold pretty steady with it, but nevertheless, it is mostly muscle that is holding my arm steady. He helped me “sink” by shoulder into my back and had me shorten my draw-length. In doing so, much of the tension throughout my bow arm diminished and I held steadier. My Latissimus dorsi (lats) muscle now came into play and it felt like I was shooting off a shelf under my arm, which was kind of cool.

So, is this the correct way to position ones bow shoulder? Below is a photo of Dave Cousins. His arm is straight, but is his bow shoulder embedded into his back or is it extended – causing him to use his deltoid to hold on target? What do the top shooters do with their bow shoulder?


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## deadeye (Aug 22, 2002)

Lean on the wall with your bow arm for 30 min. This will tell you how to hold your bow.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

You can extend your arm and keep your shoulder low, Dave is showing this in the picture if you look his front shoulder is low and sunk in, if he was holding with his shoulder the shoulder would appear higher, once you see the difference it is fairly easy to pick out a shooter that is holding with his shoulder muscles and someone who isn't, there is a misconception among some coaches that the only way to keep the shoulder low is to bend the arm. It helps me if I start my draw with a bent arm and then extend it as I reach full draw. Hope this helps.


Scott


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## Oxford (Jun 26, 2002)

thanks scott -- so extending my arm and using my deltoid is bad form? I should be sinking my shoulder into my back. The shooter Randy Hendrix, next to him appears to have his shoulder into his back but bends his arm slightly while doing it. I watched a video of Terry Ragsdale and he seems to do what Randy does.

Below Randy Hendrix and Randy Ulmer both seem to be using the embedded shoulder and less-straight arm form.


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## 2camsam (Sep 12, 2002)

Hi Oxford!! How's Randy U shooting these days? Gotta wonder when you look at that bow arm!!!!!..lol! I shot with a bent bow arm for so long that my shoulder automatically sits low into the socket all I had to do was adjust my draw length and straighten my arm a bit... more like just unlocking the elbow a bit . Kinda like the feeling when the upper arm and forearm muscles stop working. Try drawing and feeling where the bow arm is the most relaxed. That's what worked for me. And it did work well!!! I don't know about the deltoid working too much but I think you need it to hold the bow up and I think that your body will dictate where the correct shoulder position will be because if you're using too many muscles you;ll be sore after you shoot. and your sight picture won't steady up ! Just my 2 cents!!


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## Oxford (Jun 26, 2002)

CAm - i made a shooting stick (broom handle with string) so I could practice back-tension releases. I find it works great also in determining the best placement of the hand/arm/elbow/shoulder for creating the least amount of tension and the most stability. Then I try it at 20 yards with my bow. 

It's a great way to get a feel for this stuff without nocking arrows and pulling on your bow. I will do some blank bail shooting, too.

I think I'm getting closer.


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## 2camsam (Sep 12, 2002)

Hey Oxford!! Don't want to be a wet blanket , but.....The shooting stick may not be the way to go at this point. Been there done that. You use a different grip, different muscles, different feel on the shot. I tried that and it didn't work for me. I thought i'd save some wear and tear on my bow but it made my ability to hold bad. I think you and I are on the same page as far as re-thinking our form. I recently started shooting fewer shots with as much concentration on aiming as possible and no "warm ups". seems to get me into "the zone" faster. Just my opinion! 2cam


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## Oxford (Jun 26, 2002)

Cam - you may be right about the stick. The ONLY way I know for sure if something new works, is to take it to league and try it out and stay with it the entire night, under pressure, keeping score.

That will be next on the list. As for now, it seems to work at 18 meters, but will it continue to work for over 5 days? I could never figure out the Archery Grace Period where everything works for a few days...until it doesn't. Maybe that should be a new topic.

ox


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## Derbytown (May 22, 2002)

I read somewhere that it takes 21 days to develope a new habit. Hope this helps. Be safe.
Shoot Straioght
Derbytown


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

I haven't shot compound long enough to suggest anything here. But I have shot recurve for 20 years and have represented my country in international level. The way I shoot a compound is very similar to the way I shoot recurve (Olympic style). Straight bow arm, straight shoulder, low and relaxed. dynamic follow through, relaxed wrist (both draw and bow hand). The relaxed bow wrist produces a very dynamic rotation of the bow along the axis through the pivot point, parallel to the shooting line. I have tried different forms but they never worked for me. I have attached pictures of several best olympic archers in the world like Frangilli (Italy), Torres (France), Hamano (Japan), Kim Kyung-ho (Korea), Hong Sung-Chil (Korea), Ms. Kim Kyung-ok (Korea). The pictures show their shoulders and in one picture shows Hong's follow through I am talking about. Just my 2 cents.

Magicord

Kim Kyung-ho (world champion 1997) below:


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

Hong Sung-chil (world champion 1999)


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

Torres


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

Frangilli (world ranking #1)


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

Hamano


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

Hong's follow through (sorry for the lack of clarity due to the superimposed target)


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

A Korean lady whose name I forgot. Apology


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

and finally Kim Kyung-ok (1996 Olympic gold medalist)


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## Oxford (Jun 26, 2002)

WOW great stuff Magicord! Thanks for the input and the images. Very helpful.


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

Oxford, I couldn't say whether these posts are helpful or not as a lot of people think compound and recurve are two very different sport. But in my opinion, the basics are the same. Simplicity and relaxation are the main things here. I can't see why we can't learn from recurve archers.  

Magicord


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## ksm23 (Jun 1, 2002)

*Shoulder*

Magicord

I second that, from another recurve archer.


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## 2camsam (Sep 12, 2002)

Hey Ox!!! I think we're gettin' it!! Yippeeee!


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## Steve B (Sep 6, 2002)

Gotta agree with Magicord, I see no difference requirements in form from a recurve archer to a compound archer after all the only difference is the the way the string is attached to the bow isnt it ? One has wheels and one has nocks, so everything else is the same !!! 
any comments from anyone ?


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## Pixies (Sep 21, 2002)

Some top archers are changing to a Straight bow arm 
Look the photos

Dejan Sitar 
before


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## Pixies (Sep 21, 2002)

Dejan Sitar
now


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## Pixies (Sep 21, 2002)

Chris White
Before


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## Pixies (Sep 21, 2002)

Chris White
now


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## Magicord (Jul 8, 2002)

Pixies, thank you for the pictures. Glad to see that what I am thinking is right. See how similar are the forms of the best of the best of both worlds. As I have mentioned in the other thread that I was a recurve archers and have never shot a compound until this year. I was fortunate to have the Korean national team head coach as my coach a few years ago and have shot among the best archers in the world. There I learned how to relax and power management inside your body. If you look at the Korean posts above you will see how relax they were even though they were on average pulling around 46 to 50 lb on fingers. Relax though but they are very powerful. This is also why it is very dangerous to copy other archers form by just looking at it without understanding the using of internal power. When I first picked up the compound, I was trying to learn from some compound archers and found it was very difficult and non-productive for me. Most of the things I was told to do were against what I have been doing in recurve. One of the things was to aim hard in compound. I don't know how most of you guys aim but I was told to use a scope with a dot and aim hard dead center. In recurve shooting, I never think about aiming. It was done so subconsciously and I used only an open ring to sight. Conscious aiming, in coach opinion tenses up the muscle which is bad. The other one is bent arm which again has never worked for me. One day when I was struggleing with the compound in the range as usual (with sore lips of course! ), my wife, who is a recurve archer and my coach after we returned from Korea, had have enough of seeing me like that. She didn't do anything, just telling me that why not pulling the bloody glow dot out from the scope and stick a ring and start shooting like I have been doing for years. I didn't have her advise when I first picked up compound as I didn't believe she knew anything about compound as she never shoot one before. Well, it proved that I was wrong and I instantly changed everything so that I could shoot like a recurve and it worked! When I asked my coach about shoulder placement, she just say shoot straight and relax, all the proper muscles with proper strength will come into play by themselves. If you have to consciously use a muscle then it is not good. Sound very "zen" but this was how I learned to shoot again. 

Sorry about the boring stuff but I hope anyone having problems in shooting a compound can learn something from my story. Sometimes the best cure is the simplest. Relax and shoot straight. 

Magicord


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## twohats (Jul 15, 2002)

When you consider the equipment restrictions, and the holding weights, that the F. I. T. A. shooters must shoot with, it is pretty obvious to me that they are really "THE BEST SHOOTERS" in the world. I think, for what it's worth to anyone, that we can learn a lot from these people!!!

Excellent posts Magicord!!!!!


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