# can't fix low bare shaft



## David Dalziel (Sep 4, 2005)

shooting hoyt contender xt2000 70lb 30.5" spiral-X, QAD HD rest. shooting bullet through paper with my fletched arrows but no matter what i try my bare shaft is always low. best i can get is 12" low at 40M. I've moved my rest up and down, nothing seems to help. if any thing the bow is tuning best with my rest higher then square and the arrow on an upward angle. my cams are timed so the top cam is contacting the cables just a hair before the bottom cam (cam with draw stop post). just wondering if anyone has ran into this problem. thanks


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

40 M is? Meters? So over 40 yards. Why so far out and why worry?

Get a bullet hole at 6 to 8 feet with the bare shaft and then switch to the fletched arrow. If ragged hole, then contact is being made, correct it. 

I'd say something is off if the arrow is angled up. Adjust so cams hit together and then give a half twist, no more than one, to rotate the top cam ahead of the bottom. Any more than this things get difficult. 

Arrow 90% to the string, centered to berger hole, or no more than center of the shaft to the top of the berger hole. Today's bows lean more to zero nock height, but start at 1/4" nock high.


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## ats (Jul 20, 2007)

is that nock high and hitting 12" low from fletched shafts?


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## David Dalziel (Sep 4, 2005)

12" low is the best i could get and that was with arrow sitting pretty much level maybe alittle nock low. The reason i am shooting bare shafts at 40M is because i can get a bullet hole at 10 ft through paper (bare shaft) then when i shoot a bare shaft you can see the arrow whip. at first i was hitting bareshaft right but i was able to fix that by slightly moving my rest. when i was hitting bareshaft right the arrow was plaining so bad i could read the cresting on it. but it was still showing bullet hole through paper. I am really not to concerned with the low bare shaft because it is not plaining at all durring flight, i just find it odd that by moving my rest up it doesn't bring the bareshaft up. I shot olympic for years and found you had to be further then 50m to get a true bareshaft result if you are looking at point of impact alone.


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## ats (Jul 20, 2007)

if your getting nock high flight and moving your rest doesn't help, start playing with timing. Get the cams timed together perfectly, shoot and see how it does. If its still nock high you can play around with ******ing/advancing the cams a little to see if you can get it worked out. I have seen bad bearings in a cam cause this too. Its not a bad idea to break your bow down and spin the cams just for peace of mind.


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## Ken Reber (Jul 11, 2006)

*arrrows*

I was an archery dealer for 20yrs and have shot bow for 32yrs I have never bare shaft paper tuned, you will drive yourself nuts, I shoot anywhere from 20 to 80yrds my arrows fly like darts I shoot GT 55/75 28inches long with 125gr tips The arrow always needs time to recover after the shot so make sure you stay back a realistic distance and if you have a perfact hole with fletches go home and be happy.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

I'm on the other side, all due respect. I have been shooting for about 25 years, and always bare shaft, both fingers and release. If my bare shaft is not correct, that just confirms to me that something else (spine, set up, release, form, etc) is not perfect, and the fletch is masking it. Yes, figuring it out can be frustrating, but you generally learn something that helps you next time when you stay with it.

Is it essential? Heck no, as evidenced by the previous poster. But I have learned so much about shafts, tuning, form and on and on from staying with the bare shaft until I got it that I now much prefer to bare shaft.

Olympic archers do it from 70 meters with a recurve and fingers; no reason you cannot do it with a release bow. It is very much an each to his own thing, so this is in no way a criticism of anybody who does not chose to go down that road.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

To each his own is fine, but doing things correctly sure can pay off.
Bare shaft tuning should include the shaft being weighted in the area of the vanes with the like amount weight, electrical tape or whatever.

Tuning, regardless of the nature, is a learned process from either another person or that person's method mixed with one's own findings. It doesn't make it right. Putting years of experience or Olympics forward doesn't make it right either.
So, you get the bow tuned to shoot a bare shaft, but you're not shooting a bare shaft in competition. So in reality the fletchings may be correcting for whatever tuning was done to make a bare shaft fly well and really you're splitting the difference to get both to impact at the same point. Doesn't make sence to me.

Bow set up properly, arrow of good spine and set up properly; Paper tune the bare shaft from 6 to 8 feet, 10 feet being maximum. If good, move to the fletched arrow. If a ragged hole, correct the problem. If a good hole, move to French tuning (long distance seems the call from your post). Center shot corrected to it's best, play with the nocking point or rest to see if groups will tighten up.....

Good enough for the Pros, good enough for me......


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## David Dalziel (Sep 4, 2005)

I shot today taking everything into account. here is how it went. 10ft fletched shaft perfect bullet hole. bareshaft slight right tear. moved rest out, bullet hole. moved back to 7M, bareshaft 8" tear. moved back to 10ft bullet hole. shot fletched shaft bullet hole. Didn't move anything went to 50M shot bareshaft low left. Moved rest in to bring bareshaft in line with fletched, just 10" low. kept moving rest in till bearshaft started impacting low right then moved my rest back in, to bring my bareshaft back in line with fletched shafts. To me being able to move my bareshafts left and right of my fletched shafts tells me I have the right arrows? In the past no matter how i move my rest my bareshaft stay out to the right. I came to the conclution that those arrows where stiff and went to weaker shafts (from 340 to 400). It was pretty gusty so walkback testing was out of the question. The bow is grouping great I just figured if I could get my bareshaft shooting perfect I shouldn't have any problems with broadheads. In the past I paper tuned fletched shafts and broadheads won't fly at all. I do agree that you can pull your hair out trying to make bareshafts shoot but I am also learning tons. As mentioned before I used to shoot olympic style and I am finding what moves a bareshaft one way with fingers isn't always going to work with a release. I am appreciate everyones input I am going to try working with the timing when i get a bit of time.


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## jim46ok (Oct 9, 2008)

*Same arrow?*

Some tuners try to make a bare shaft of a different arrow group fly with the flock....usually with frustrating results. It is IMPERATIVE that the bareshaft be EXACTLY the same shaft, with tape or ? added at the fletch area to make it the same weight within a few grains.

FOC should be the same, same spine, same arrow!! Then any differences in impact can be relied upon as accurate. And, you don't need a Shooting Machine to do it.

Some folks try and Paper tune, then bareshaft, mixing the 2 disciplines and trying for same results. The trouble with this, is what makes "bullet holes" at 6 feet might not at 9 feet. (Archer's Paradox) Google it... arrow fishtails. At what point do you want it to pass thru the paper?

Bare shaft tuning shows the arrow in it's true environment. jmho, and works for us...


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## ats (Jul 20, 2007)

jim46ok said:


> Bare shaft tuning shows the arrow in it's true environment. jmho, and works for us...



sums it up well, and why I do it.


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> To each his own is fine, but doing things correctly sure can pay off.
> 
> Tuning, regardless of the nature, is a learned process from either another person or that person's method mixed with one's own findings. It doesn't make it right. Putting years of experience or Olympics forward doesn't make it right either.
> ......


As Sonny shoots some pretty serious 3D, and works in a shop, I tend to respect his opinions.

To me, bareshaft tuning is a confidence thing. I don't bother to weight the shaft, as I think past about 20-30ft it starts to be a waste of time. Almost any arrow with any amount of offset on the vane has started to spin at that point, and self correct for error. That said, I have found over the many years I've been bareshaft tuning, most setups will be ready for broadhead tuning if I can get the same point of impact from a bare/fletched shaft at 30ft. On the other hand, I've had bows that maintained that to 30yds, that wouldn't shoot a broadhead for beans.

Bareshaft tuning is part of the process, not the process.


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