# How to cut X-10 shafts



## Carnie362 (Feb 6, 2010)

The X-10 shafts are barrel shafted (thin on the ends and thick in the middle).

Let's say that the shafts start out at 31". That makes the fattest point at 15.5" (the center).

Now, let's say that you need to cut them down to 28". That's a 3" cut from the front. But the center of the arrow is 14" but the previous center of the arrow is now not located at 14" mid-point.

Wouldn't it make better sense to cut 1.5" from the front and 1.5" from the rear. This will keep the fattest section in the center of the arrow and the thinner ends will be uniformly thin?

Does this make sense?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

You would trim equal amounts off of both ends.


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

Do not cut any barrelled shaft from the back. This will DRAMITICALLY stiffen the arrow cutting an inch and a half from the back will easily make a 500 spine arrow tune like a 450 more closer to a 430 spines arrow. 

From aerodynamics yes cutting from both sides would be beat if the bulge started in the middle which I'm not sure if it does. I don't think that the stock arrow length has the bulge in the middle it's more towards the rear under the x10 label. I could be wrong.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Jake Kaminski said:


> Do not cut any barrelled shaft from the back. This will DRAMITICALLY stiffen the arrow cutting an inch and a half from the back will easily make a 500 spine arrow tune like a 450 more closer to a 430 spines arrow.
> 
> From aerodynamics yes cutting from both sides would be beat if the bulge started in the middle which I'm not sure if it does. I don't think that the stock arrow length has the bulge in the middle it's more towards the rear under the x10 label. I could be wrong.


Good point. And I think with training wheels, so ProTours are able to be cut from the back and not affect spine too much. My goof.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Just for the heck of it, I took an X10 650 that I have lying here on my desk, plus the little digital thickness gauge that some of us in Arizona are playing with for possible use in equipment inspection. Jake should be familiar with these arrows - he sold them to me so I can have my kid use them for outdoor arrows. These arrows are cut roughly at 27 inches or so, with a stock length of 29 inches.

Anyhow, measuring from:

- right behind the point: .1865 inches
- 1/3rd up from the point: .1865 inches
- right in the middle of the Easton X10 label in white: .1885 inches
- where the last gold taper mark is heading towards the back of the arrow: .1865 inches
- Just before the wrap begins: .1735 inches

I would hazard a guess that an uncut X10 650 arrow would be .1735 or so as well at the beginning/front of the arrow.

-Steve


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## urabus (May 22, 2006)

Beastmaster said:


> Good point. And I think with training wheels, so ProTours are able to be cut from the back and not affect spine too much. My goof.


cutting protours from the back....you are cutting off the "stiffer" part of the shaft....hence make it "weaker".


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## ScarletArrows (May 25, 2007)

according to easton...to remove a 1/4 inch (or possibly 1/2 inch can't recall at the moment) from the back of the arrow on an x10 or protour equals removing 1 inch from the front in stiffness change.

Personally I would never cut from the back of any shaft unless it was a parrallel carbon.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

I was talking to my coach about this the other night (we were making up a dozen ACGs for me, which are also tapered like the X10s). He said the exact same thing as Jake- if you cut off the back, it would stiffen it a lot. 

Now, I wonder if you could accurately take this into account when selecting which shaft to use, so you could cut it in the back and still have the right spine.


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

ive known people to cut off the back if the arrow is too weak, it works fine as long as you do it the same


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## Carnie362 (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks so 1/4" or 1/2" from back = 1" from front.

The reason I was wondering about cutting equal lengths from front and rear because I thought that keeping the arrow symmetrical would aide in flight recovery. But, I guess it doesn't and has negative repercussions (ie stiffness).

With regards to cutting from rear to increase stiffness, why would one do this? Why not just sell the "wrong spine" arrow and then purchase the "right spine" arrow? Is there an advantage in buying a lighter arrow cut from the rear (to add stiffness) than it is to buy a heavier arrow cut from the front-side?

TIA


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Carnie362 said:


> Thanks so 1/4" or 1/2" from back = 1" from front.
> 
> The reason I was wondering about cutting equal lengths from front and rear because I thought that keeping the arrow symmetrical would aide in flight recovery. But, I guess it doesn't and has negative repercussions (ie stiffness).
> 
> ...


If you cut from the rear, you can extend the arrow life or fix an error. At $350/ dozen or more, I don't admit defeat easily :wink:


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## Carnie362 (Feb 6, 2010)

So if I understand correctly there's only one reason to cut from the rear of an X-10 ....... financial?


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

Carnie362 said:


> So if I understand correctly there's only one reason to cut from the rear of an X-10 ....... financial?


you would cut off the rear if your arrow is to weak, and you dont want to buy aanother dozen. OR if you believe your sucuess one year was due to a set of arrows :wink: you can cut them off the back to keep the same ones after you move up in weight


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

I know that back in 2007 or so, a Brit couple named Marcus and Erika took ProTours and cut them off front and back. I've got the link buried somewhere....once I find it I'll post it. It was off of one of the UK forums.


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Xcreekarchery1 said:


> you would cut off the rear if your arrow is to weak, and you dont want to buy aanother dozen. OR if you believe your sucuess one year was due to a set of arrows :wink: you can cut them off the back to keep the same ones after you move up in weight


I guess if you twist it hard enough, that could spell financial as well. Hmmm, sounds 'bout right to me


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

This is highly a personal thing IMO.
You however can not cut the front only as you will reduce the thinner part on the top too much. I think everyone has their own formula that works for them. For us non-easton prostaffers experimenting with these shafts can turn out to be very expensive...


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## urabus (May 22, 2006)

Reo Wilde won the World Champs (fita outdoor) last year shooting X10s with iirc 2" or 3" off the back...hmmm......:wink:


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

When I had trouble reaching 90m I used 550s and cut two inches from the back and then trimmed the front to size. The arrow shot like a 470 spines x10 but was as light as a 550 once you start getting into stiffer x10s the weight goes up on them dramatically.


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## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

Jake Kaminski said:


> When I had trouble reaching 90m I used 550s and cut two inches from the back and then trimmed the front to size. The arrow shot like a 470 spines x10 but was as light as a 550 once you start getting into stiffer x10s the weight goes up on them dramatically.


I have to ask, but with them trimmed like is it still worth it when you could get a lighter ACE in the right spine to get the distance with? Just curious as I'm not sure how an ACE 470 (no rear trim) compares against an X10 550 for drift and grouping and things. 

I have a set of 450 X10's which I got second-hand. They were slightly long for me and tuned a little weak, so I cut 1/4" off the back which made just the right difference without shortening the arrows too much. It does appear to be that 1" off the back is worth 2" at the front but have read that its better to get the right spine and take only from the front if possible. I guess thats good advice as cutting from the back has far more effect and it would have been easy to take too much and make them untunable for me. So far so good with them though as, and this may answer my question above, I shot a pb at 30m with them at the first go - 347. Thats 7 points clear of my old pb and the weather wasnt too great. I've only used ACE's and Nano Pros before.


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

Acehero said:


> I have to ask, but with them trimmed like is it still worth it when you could get a lighter ACE in the right spine to get the distance with? Just curious as I'm not sure how an ACE 470 (no rear trim) compares against an X10 550 for drift and grouping and things.


You could...BUT an ACE is no where near as durable as an X10


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

Nor the aerodynamic properties. I've never had good luck getting the aces to shoot well. At least compared to x10s


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

> we were making up a dozen ACGs for me, which are also tapered like the X10s


Are you certain about this? I thought the ACGs were a parallel shaft, similar to the Navigators they replaced in Easton's line-up and also ACCs?



> a Brit couple named Marcus and Erika took ProTours and cut them off front and back


Aussie's actually, and no longer a couple. I believe Marcus mentioned that they cut some off the back end of the X10 ProTours in order to weaken the spine a little since the ProTour is a tapered shaft (thicker in the back end) instead of a barrelled shaft (thinner on the ends, ala the regular X10s).

I know several who were setting up their regular X10s per the method someone mentioned Reo was using -- cutting off 2"-3" off the back and then trimming to length off the front -- for compound use. Seemed though like it was hit or miss in terms of how much to trim off both ends for the compound archers though -- heard it had something to do with the barrelled shape reacting better for compounds with more trimmed off the back end compared to what worked out of a recurve (which the X10 was designed for). Hence I think part of the reason the tapered X10 ProTours were developed -- stiffer in back with the widest part of the shaft and only needing to trim to length off the front, similar to a parallel shaft like the ACCs.

Stuff I heard anyways. I never had good luck getting the regular X10s to work out of any of my set-ups and opted to shoot Navigators for several years. Then ProTours came out so I picked the spine closest to what I was using in a Navigator, trimmed only from front as recommended to length and they worked and reacted as well as the Navigators were without having to do any additional playing.

>>------->


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

CHPro said:


> Are you certain about this? I thought the ACGs were a parallel shaft, similar to the Navigators they replaced in Easton's line-up and also ACCs?


I am pretty sure they are tapered, but I don't have any proof as of now. I guess next time I see Steve Yee (Beastmaster) I can check. He has an electronic reader that I can use.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Regarding ACG's - the paint notation on the shaft of the arrow seems to denote they are barrelled. 

I will be seeing Adam (Sighting In) this Saturday (he's one of my son's teammates) so I can measure an ACG out. He's one of the first in our neck of the woods to buy a set, so he's somewhat of a guinea pig with the arrows. 

Re: ProTours - the conversation mentioned was a while ago. Thanks for providing more detail. That brings out more clarity. And - digging up a bookmark from that far back is a pain. 

-Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Just called Easton. They are closed for Good Friday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

ACG shafts are parallel. They are actually regranded and weight graded Navigators.

Barreled shafts, X10 and ACE, are best suited for recurve and fingers in stock configuration. The more flexible rear section allows the shaft to absorb paradox created by the finger action on the string while allowing the middle and fromt sections to properly respond to the column loading imparted by the bow force curve.

When using barreled shafts with compound and trigger there is minimal, if any, offset loading for the flexible end to absorb, but the arrow sees the compound peak force after the initial loading. When the peak force is applied later in the shot stroke, the arrow is already moving and the most flexible end of the shaft sees this high force first and responds first. If the back end is cut, making it stiffer, it will better respond to the bow.

For compound use, X10 shafts should have some cut from the back. The problem is that it can be complicated making the determination of how much.

Tapered shafts, Protour, simply function like an X10 with a rear cut. By building the Protour, Easton has made the solution far, far easier.

Can an X10 with an exact perfect amount of rear cut be made to outperform a Protour, probably, but at what cost of experimentation to determine the perfect amount of rear cut balance?

I think X10 shafts would be better served if they were of the same construction and ultra small diameter but parallel.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Okay - I took one of Sighting In's ACG's and measured it.

Arrow Spec:

Easton ACG
1206 Series A, 480 C1

Front behind the point - 0.230 inches
Where the first "taper" logo begins - 0.232 inches
Easton logo and description in gold lettering - 0.232 inches
3 Blank spots for initials - 0.232 inches
1/4 from the back of the arrow - 0.230 inches
Just before the nock of the arrow - 0.230 inches.

So - there is a 0.002 inch difference between the front/back of the arrow and the middle.

-Steve


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

I got a dozen of ACGs (540) and they are not tapered.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jake Kaminski said:


> Nor the aerodynamic properties. I've never had good luck getting the aces to shoot well. At least compared to x10s


Jake, it is what it is I guess. I've had more luck with A/C/E's than X10's (although X10's are still a great arrow). 

Each of us is different. We each need to find 1) what tunes best for our setup and 2) what we have the most confidence in shooting.

Those are the keys.

John.


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

FS560 said:


> Can an X10 with an exact perfect amount of rear cut be made to outperform a Protour, probably, but at what cost of experimentation to determine the perfect amount of rear cut balance?


Outperform in what way? Both of these arrows will hold the 10 ring at 90 metres. How much better do you need?



FS560 said:


> I think X10 shafts would be better served if they were of the same construction and ultra small diameter but parallel.


But then they'd be more expensive and they wouldn't be X10's.


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## mepsemaster (Nov 8, 2004)

*x-10 arrows*

I don't want to sound stupid, but I have to. What is the front and the back of an arrow? Email me at [email protected].
Thanking in advance,
Del:help:


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

have a look at the labelling. when upright (ie you can read it), the left is the front.


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## David Dalziel (Sep 4, 2005)

Do ACE's react the same as X10's when cut off the back. me ACE 400's are alittle weak and i have room to cut off the back. would 1/2 make a difference


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## ArcherMariachi (Dec 21, 2021)

Jake Kaminski said:


> Do not cut any barrelled shaft from the back. This will DRAMITICALLY stiffen the arrow cutting an inch and a half from the back will easily make a 500 spine arrow tune like a 450 more closer to a 430 spines arrow.
> 
> From aerodynamics yes cutting from both sides would be beat if the bulge started in the middle which I'm not sure if it does. I don't think that the stock arrow length has the bulge in the middle it's more towards the rear under the x10 label. I could be wrong.



Do you still have the same idea? Would you avoid cutting from the back at any cost? Let’s say if you your life wasn’t financially organised towards archery and you wouldn’t be able to trial and error with more then one set of arrows per season?


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

ArcherMariachi said:


> Do you still have the same idea? Would you avoid cutting from the back at any cost? Let’s say if you your life wasn’t financially organised towards archery and you wouldn’t be able to trial and error with more then one set of arrows per season?


Just a heads up, that's someone who hasn't been active in this forum in most of a decade, in a thread that's now finishing primary school. 
If you've just bought a set of X10s and they're too weak (know several people who've done that), best course of action is probably to sell them at a small loss and either buy 1-2 spines stiffer or try a different (cheaper) small diameter arrow. Cutting from the back is a bit of a gamble that makes them nearly unsellable if it doesn't work out as you'll have removed a large part of that makes them so expensive.


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