# Q re: barebow anchor point and nose tape?



## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

Hello. I'm a new archer and decided about two months ago when I started that I would keep the equipment aspect simple and just practice and shoot recurve barebow.

I am practicing form with a 20# OTF recurve made of 21" metal riser and long bolt on limbs. I also have 24# bolt on limbs, and a separate ILF bow of 68" with limbs that range OTF from 30# tillered all the way out, to 34# tillered all the way in. I can't practice form with that bow as my bow shoulder has trouble staying stable if I'm shooting 50-100 arrows. My draw length is almost exactly 28". I plan to have grown into that bow within the next 2-3 months.

I want to describe my shot sequence and ask for feedback about why I'm ticking my nose, and whether there are any easy solutions other than the Demmer/Barker tape the nose method.

1. check grip
2. locate tab at the string walk point... for me at 28' that is about 1.5" below the nock. I use my middle three fingers equally at the first joint. 
3. Draw (sort of rotationally), making sure bow shoulder is neutral, stable and pulled bone on bone.
4. My draw goes 3" past my mouth corner anchor stop, and then I allow the string to pull my middle finger forward into my anchor point, with a good pressure and contact against my cheek.
5. I visually check for bow verticality, and turn my nose a hair to the right to touch the nock briefly to make sure everything is in alignment.
6. I pull my nose maybe 1/8" off of the nock so that it isn't touching when I shoot and then aim with the tip of the 30" arrow.
7. I check my scap tension, and adjust my scap so it can't go comfortably any more compressed.
8. I check to make sure my forarm doesn't have any tension.
9. I consciously stare at the arrow tip and target point, and then try to compress my scap just a pinch more to trigger release of the string.

The string hits my nose pretty hard on about one in five shots, and lightly in about two of five shots, with two shots not touching my nose. I believe I'm slightly flinching my head simultaneous with string release to the left on those two shots that don't touch the nose.

I personally find the most reliable and repeatable anchor to be with nock very close or even touching to my nose, but I stopped that obviously because I don't like getting my nose slapped.

As to my accuracy, at 28 feet, my groupings range from tennis ball circle about 1/4 of the time, slow pitch softball about half the time, and a volleyball about 1/4 the time. I believe this lack of accuracy is due to not having an exact anchor point that doesn't hurt my nose, and the flinching I described to save my nose.

Any suggestions on either nose or the form I described?

P.S. how do I attach a photo I have on my desktop?


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## leatherback (Jun 7, 2017)

Move your anchor forward or tape up.

Tons of guys have further forward anchors but it also depends on your face shape.

Take a look at michael fisher for his anchor. Its further forward.

Some guys find success with pressing their nose hard into the string with the idea behind it being that the nose will be squished out of the way. 

Check out istvan kakas a barebow shooter from europe....he presses his nose right against the string hard.

There is even a guy from France who has a barebow anchor and has it touch the tip of his nose like an Olympic archer. Quite unique but he is one of the best in his country. 

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk


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## Corene1 (Apr 27, 2014)

I used to hit my nose a lot so I got in front of a mirror and practiced my draw and anchor. I discovered that I was slightly twisting my head moving my nose inline with the string path. I use my eyebrow as a contact point to set head tilt and when I tilt my head straight toward the target with no twist of the head there is no string contact with the nose. That also makes a slightly shorter draw. I also trimmed my tab to absolute minimum coverage without getting contact with bare skin. This also helped a bit. It seemed that the longer tab defected the string a tiny bit into my nose.


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## beleg2 (Dec 31, 2005)

Keep your head straight to the target and/or do not turn it during the shot.
IMHO- this is usually all the problem.
Martin


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

d - 

We've seen this before - and I've posted this before...

There are only three reasons for a nose bite, and it has nothing to do with "bare bow". 

1. Over rotating the head away from the target. Very common, especially with a new shooter trying to get "full extension" and a light bow. Solution - stop doing that. Set your head as parallel to the target as is comfortable and leave it there.
2. Anchor too deep. Solution - change the anchor. 
3. Collapse on the release, very hard for the shooter to tell. Solution - a GOOD instructor can spot that and prescribe corrective measures. 

Understand one thing: this is a hobby, nothing more. If you're causing an injury practicing it, you're doing something very wrong, and I don't care who you see doing it. We've all used tape at one time or another, but on a regular basis, no.

Viper1 out.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

I'm for sure not going to tell John Demmer that he's doing something wrong.


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

Viper1 said:


> 1. Over rotating the head away from the target.
> 
> 3. Collapse on the release,


1. I assume you mean away from the target toward the bow, rather than away from the bow?

3. Does this mean the bow shoulder rotates up in the socket upon shot release?


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

Arcus said:


> I'm for sure not going to tell John Demmer that he's doing something wrong.


In watching the Barebow Worlds, Lancaster 2018 and 2019, the vast majority of barebow target and field archers, including the elite among them as mentioned in a post above: Fisher, Ottosson, Kakash, Garcia Fernandez from Spain, Roy from France, and NONE of the top ranked women barebow archers, etc. do not use tape on the nose. The problem I am having is that my left/right accuracy is best when my nose is very close to the nock. If I pull my nose away from the nock, when sighting through the arrow tip, the shot goes left (from 28 feet about 3-4 inches). And I cant put a few clicks on the arrow tip to bring in into alignment! So I could protect my nose and gap 3-4 inches horizontally at 28 feet (which is like a foot at 30 yards), or I can figure out how somehow to get my nose/eye where I aim straight, which is right next to then nock, and either tape or figure out a different anchor point, or maybe I'm slightly plucking the string on release which would throw the string into my nose. 

I will experiment will all the suggestions above.

P.S. Can anybody post here or pm me archery coaches near Irvine, CA?


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## Corene1 (Apr 27, 2014)

The olympic training center is in Chula Vista , should be able to find some contacts there. El Dorado archers still do a FITA tournament every month and have coaches there as well. http://eldoradoarchers.com/contact-location I think any of the archery clubs down there would have contacts also. I used to see Don Rabska at Woodley park over in Van Nuys but he has since moved but they have classes there on the weekends, and would imagine they had coaching staff contacts . I think June Montenegro is there as well. He was the instructor for the Easton foundation until they pulled the plug for lack of funding.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

d - 

BT collapse, I mean your string hand is moving forward on lease, ie there's a break of back tension. 
If the hand doesn't move in the opposite direction from the arrow a finite amount, you blew it.

The problem you're experiencing is common with a lot of Internet-taught shooters. 
Perfect alignment requires the string hand to be well behind what we consider a normal anchor. 
When trying to make that happen, a lot of people over draw and turn their heads away from the target, bringing their noses in the path of the string. 
Reality is that "optimal" alignment is a compromise between bone support and a consistent AND SAFE anchor. 

A true pluck will pull the string away from your face, not into your nose. 

If I gave you my opinions on "bare bow", it would start a pissing match, so you're going to have to figure out what's best for you.

Viper1 out.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I love it when a person who hasn't ever performed at the top level can call one who's dominated it for years incompetent. Welcome to the Internet.

To the OP: tape it. Then see how you can adjust to minimize contact and see if eventually the tape isn't necessary. Every face is a different shape with different distance between the eyes. Barebow will always require adjustments from "ideal".


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I need tape when I use a tab. I don't need tape when I use a glove.

I won three national barebow titles and set two state records, shooting with a glove.

Problem solved. LOL


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John - 

I simple solution to a "complex" problem??? That just ain't right. 
Ever get the feeling some folks just like to make their lives harder...

I had to use tape a number of years ago, I just fixed my anchor (slightly). 

Viper1 out.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Well, monkey see, monkey do is one of the fundamental themes of archery! 

I used a Black Widow calf hair tab for field archery. The calf hair was much better to my nose than cordovan or super leather for some reason. But for fixed-distance events like indoor or outdoor nat's, I see no advantage to a tab over a glove. More people should try a glove IMO. If it doesn't work for them, then so be it. But it worked pretty good for my friend Michele back in '96 on his way to setting a new Olympic 72-arrow ranking record.


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## Corene1 (Apr 27, 2014)

Interesting. I have seen him shoot and I believe he shoots a tab now. Probably could have shot that record with either tab or glove.


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

I seem to remember reading that Michele was shooting with a tab *and* a glove at that time, to help prevent injury in his fingers; and that later he just started using thicker tabs.

I'm sure Vittorio could enlighten us if he happens by on this thread


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

John_K said:


> I seem to remember reading that Michele was shooting with a tab *and* a glove at that time, to help prevent injury in his fingers; and that later he just started using thicker tabs.
> 
> I'm sure Vittorio could enlighten us if he happens by on this thread


You are right, in 1996 in Atlanta he was shooting with glove over a tab. But since 1999, he changed to a thicker tab, and still now he is using self made 4 layers tab, without any spacer and platform. Simpler things are usually less troublesome, and thi sis one of the cases, IMHO.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

Not as strange as you might think. Back in the 70's, I was shooting pretty heavy rigs, I shot a tab over a glove as well for protection (must be an Italian thing). Later, friends of mine developed the SAM (Super Archery Mitt) and made me a triple layer version. 

Every "problem" will have multiple solutions. Sometimes fixing the root cause is preferable and sometimes you need a band-aid. 

Unfortunately, John's comment on "monkey see / monkey do" is correct. It's the " if Brady does it..." thing.

Viper1 out.


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

Vittorio said:


> Simpler things are usually less troublesome, and this is one of the cases, IMHO.


 like the Fairweather tab?


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## ceratops (May 17, 2017)

Responding to the original question, and noting from the outset that I've only been shooting barebow for a couple of months, I echo Corene's recommendation of standing in front of a mirror and trying to analyze what is going on. I think people's facial features vary enough that you have to be open to modifying your anchor, with the multiple goals of 1) finding a solid and repeatable anchor, 2) not clipping lip or nose with the string, 3) having your eye in a good position to sight on the arrow.

As an example, I started with one of the standard recommended anchors - index finger tip at corner of mouth - and found that I kept hitting the corner of my upper lip with something... At first I didn't know if it was the string, or the arrow nock, or even part of my finger tab. That led to swelling, and even bleeding after a while - definitely a nuisance!

I decided to spend some time looking in the mirror at full draw, and noticed that I needed to turn my head a bit more to the target, and also that my eye wasn't in line with the arrow unless I tilted my head very significantly to the right. After a number of experiments, I eventually switched to putting the tip of my index finger against my eyetooth (i.e. moving a bit close to center line of the face, as compared to the corner of the mouth position). That puts my eye closer to the plane of the string and arrow, and has also eliminated the injuries from the string. With my particular hand and face shape, it also let me put the upper edge of the index finger under the cheek bone and touch first joint of thumb under back corner of jawbone.

But - that is just one specific example. A different person is likely to find/need a somewhat different solution.

Again, I'm quite new to barebow, so if this is a dumb approach, I'm sure someone more experienced will chime in.


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

ceratops said:


> Responding to the original question, and noting from the outset that I've only been shooting barebow for a couple of months, I echo Corene's recommendation of standing in front of a mirror and trying to analyze what is going on.
> I decided to spend some time looking in the mirror at full draw, and noticed that I needed to turn my head a bit more to the target, and also that my eye wasn't in line with the arrow unless I tilted my head very significantly to the right. After a number of experiments, I eventually switched to putting the tip of my index finger against my eyetooth (i.e. moving a bit close to center line of the face, as compared to the corner of the mouth position). That puts my eye closer to the plane of the string and arrow, and has also eliminated the injuries from the string. With my particular hand and face shape, it also let me put the upper edge of the index finger under the cheek bone and touch first joint of thumb under back corner of jawbone.


 that example is helpful. Thanks for reminding me that the mirror idea had been put forth, I had forgotten.


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## hammer08 (Aug 28, 2012)

I shoot Barebow and sometimes I hit my nose, sometimes I don’t. When I do I put tape on. As long as I’m shooting well I don’t overthink it. Use tape if you need it.


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

Viper1 said:


> d -
> 
> We've seen this before - and I've posted this before...
> 
> ...


 V-

You were right. I shot some tonight mostly focusing on the position of my head...both rotating away from the target, and canting toward the bow... and i was doing both. It was easy to get rid of the cant, but then the string slapped my lips (since uncanting moved my nose away from the string, and my lips into the string path).

The problem I am encountering is that my neck appears to be quite unwilling to swivel 90 degrees to my shoulders... it is quite difficult for me to do. I'm good for about 75 degrees, and the rest is quite an effort. I must have a more inflexible neck than most people.

Is this a common or uncommon problem, and are there exercises to help loosen up my neck so that I my face can face the target while my shoulders are perpendicular to it?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

D - 

Most people can't fully rotate their heads towards the target, so it becomes an " as far as comfortable" thing.

Since I can't see you, have to state this bluntly. 
If you have a fat face or large lips, then you may need to modify your anchor. 

If your proportions are more average, then the lip thing is most likely #3, collapsing on the release. 
Have some one stand behind you with their palm about 1" behind your string side elbow. 
You have to hit their palm on release.
If you do (without faking it), odds are you'll stop hitting your lip.

Viper1 out.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Here are some world champion barebow shooters:
https://worldarchery.org/sites/defa...k=tRhxoSVw&c=6742f5a5e0a1cafe8304aa0587723cf9
https://worldarchery.org/sites/defa...778-x2.jpg?itok=P0i-XSeV&timestamp=1500485778
https://photos.smugmug.com/Other-1/...5/i-HqdpwwB/0/7300466d/L/WGA17_X17_7263-L.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...tREvgApLd0NjXMtcGpm8cIdKsnVyun7Z8n9UjqXrH0VoV

None of them have an upright head position. Many are both canted into the string and slightly turned into the draw. All of them are winning at the highest level.
Study winners.


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

grantmac --

Thanks for those pics. When I watch Demmer in video it is harder for me to tell exactly what he's doing. now that I see it, it does look like Demmer has chosen to turn his nose into the string, not just touching it, but pressing it so that the string is squishing his nose leftward. This will explain the tape. I can only conclude that his aiming is better squishing the string with his nose than aiming by any other method.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

d - 



> I can only conclude that his aiming is better squishing the string with his nose than aiming by any other method.


Yes, but that has no bearing on you. 
If that was a choice I'd have to make, I'd take up golf (and I hate golf).

Be careful when someone tells you to "watch the pros". You have no idea about their thought processes or their reasons for doing what they are doing. 

Viper 1 out.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Be careful when someone who won't compete tells you to ignore those who do.


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## PNWMaker (Feb 7, 2019)

I've been stringwalking a few months now, with a 31 inch draw, anchoring my thumb to the back of my jaw, and if I don't tape my nose the string bites the very tip just a little. I'm not using the Demmer method of tape alongside the nose, but rather using a longer piece of 3m medical paper tape to tape the tip of my nose to the side.I'm trying to work on turning my head more, but it isn't always comfortable. I might try moving my anchor farther up, but I doubt I'll be able to expand like I prefer.
It seems like you have a consistent and well thought out shot process. For flinching you might try out blank baling from a typically Olympic Recurve under the chin anchor just to get some shots in that won't hit you, and after a while going back to a typical anchor. 
Bonuses of taping: I get to write fun stuff on my face.


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## hotshot42 (Jan 23, 2019)

nothing wrong with a little slant


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

I can hardly find a thread where insults are not present. Guys, we are grown ups, I hope, and everyone has his/her opinion. No need to be bashing each other down.
Personally, I find it useful to copy others, but only as a tool, as a way to find my own way, and not as a way to become a.....copy cat.
Thing is, in order to creatively copy someone, and really decide if it is something that works or not, you need to have the basics down already, and not use copying as the sole learning process.


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

I want to give you guys an update --

I've spend the last couple of days working out what I was doing wrong... 

For my anchor point, which is middle finger into the corner of my mouth, I was canting (tilting on a diagonal) too little, and swiveling my head into the string path (turning from target into string) too much.

I can't really say or measure how that is, it was just a matter of trial and error over about 300 arrows. I taped up so that I wouldn't flinch while experimenting. My goal was to make three things happen at the same time -- 1) not slap my nose, 2) not slap my lips, and 3) get my eye to where when sighting off the arrow tip I actually hit my target in the horizontal plane (left vs. center vs. right of target).

It was the 3) that was bothering me. Before I could no problem avoid hitting my nose or lips,but my eye was in a position to make the arrow hit left 4" at 28'... so I could either live with a gap of 4" left, which is about a foot at 30 yards, or better, I figured out how to move my eye to the correct position without hurting myself in the process.

I don't need tape. 

I am not sure why Demmer presses the string with his nose, but it seems to work for him. I don't see any of those other guys, and I looked at lots of pics of them -- Kakash, Ottosson, Roy, Garcia Fernandez, Jonsson, Fisher, and if you want to look at local guys from Lancaster barebow 2017 - 2019, each has a slightly different anchor point, but none presses the string with their nose. Actually I did notice a few used their index finger into the corner of their mouth, while I am using middle finger. I think I'll try it both ways. I can see the advantage of index finger on longer shots your spot on aim is higher, meaning you don't have to stack high or as high as with a middle finger anchor, but that also means on short distances you have to crawl a finger width more.

Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Do you know your point-on distance?


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

grantmac said:


> Do you know your point-on distance?


 It's been raining her for a couple of weeks, but last time i went to the range, I recall that with the 24# bow, it is 18 yards. with the 30# bow I recently got, it is closer to 30 yards. When I was at the range last that both bows were B50 strung, but now the 30# is fastflight so it might change some. My draw is almost exactly 28" from anchor to bow pivot point. 

My current arrows are .166" ID carbon, 30" 900 spine and weigh 268 grains on my scale, with 80 grain glued tips and 3" rounded turkey feathers in back and pin nocks. My other 900 spine set that I still use is 284 grains because they are 5" turkey feathers. 

I'm going to get 800 spined arrow for the 30# bow but I'm in no hurry... turkey feathers can make up for being underspined for awhile.


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## ceratops (May 17, 2017)

Are you paying attention to string blur also (hasn't been mentioned so far in the thread)?


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

ceratops said:


> Are you paying attention to string blur also (hasn't been mentioned so far in the thread)?


 No, I have heard and read about that (for example in Vegas it was an issue for some archers with different lighting between practice venue and the main hall making their view of the string blur more difficult) but I haven't paid attention to that yet as I am shooting.. Is there a youtube video that explains it in detail?


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

nevermind re: string blur. It is a standard part of Olympic Recurve aiming, but not so much trad or barebow. Some do use it as a reference, some don't. I've got a hard enough time getting what I AM doing consistent that I don't want to add another variable just yet... maybe down the line I can experiment with that.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I'd cut down the 900s before buying 800s and try for an anchor giving a 40-45yd point on.


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## hammer08 (Aug 28, 2012)

dunninla said:


> nevermind re: string blur. It is a standard part of Olympic Recurve aiming, but not so much trad or barebow. Some do use it as a reference, some don't. I've got a hard enough time getting what I AM doing consistent that I don't want to add another variable just yet... maybe down the line I can experiment with that.


I can assure you string blur is used in Barebow. If you don’t want to add something else to focus on right now that’s ok. Go at your own pace. But eventually I’d work it in and pay attention to it every shot. It’s your rear sight in a way. Using it will only make your more consistent.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

It seems that without realizing it an important point is being missed. Some come close though.

The "issue" is sight vs non-sight, Oly vs Bare Bow. 

The sight is going to do a lot to establish a head position that can be away from the string, and consistently keep it there, shot after shot, day after day. Without a sight, to aim accurately, at varying distances, with VERY few individual exceptions, the shooter must get their eye somewhere over the arrow at draw. That calls for a "high" anchor and a nose pretty darned close to the string. You can play with string blur, but the range is quite narrow. 

These considerations are dictated by parallax between the shooter's eye, the arrow, the target, and the arrow's actual flight path. Although the shape of a shooter's face and head does modify the severity of the "problem," this relationship is inescapable.

Accurate Bare Bow shooters are more likely to wind up with their nose VERY close to the string. And so as such are more likely to wind up hitting their nose on a regular basis. 

I myself am just lucky in that I hit my nose. But the hit is light enough, and the material properties of my nose are such that I don't wind up cutting my nose and bleeding. So I don't need tape. 

Anyway, to summarize, yep, Physics sucks.


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## Demmer3 (Apr 23, 2017)

With Grayson. Sometimes I tick the nose and sometimes I don't. I always put tape on it just Incase. ITS NOT A BIG DEAL! Lol. A lot has to do with my anchor, but I will tell you this.... I'm not giving up my anchor. Nope, no way, no how. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

Oh, goodness, if I had known Demmer was going to post, I wouldn't have taken his name in vain earlier. :mg:


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## alish (Jan 31, 2018)

Your horizontal "gap" is likely due to the fact that you haven't been looking at your string blur, possibly coupled with using your middle finger at your anchor. For me, with my hand size and face shape, if I use my middle finger to my eye tooth I can't bring the string close enough to my eye, resulting in shots going left (right handed shooter). With my index finger to the eye tooth I can bring the string into alignment with my eye so that the string (rear sight), arrow tip (front sight), and center of target are in alignment. With this set-up shots that go left are due to my release, not due to anchor and aiming issues. But as has been mentioned, it's figuring out what works for your face shape and finger / hand size. Since you are using conscious aiming I would strongly recommend bringing string blur into your shot process though as it ties into what is going to be the best anchor for you.

Good luck and have fun!!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Demmer3 said:


> With Grayson. Sometimes I tick the nose and sometimes I don't. I always put tape on it just Incase. ITS NOT A BIG DEAL! Lol. A lot has to do with my anchor, but I will tell you this.... I'm not giving up my anchor. Nope, no way, no how.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


When I shoot with a glove (for single-distance events) I have the same result. Sometimes it hits my nose, sometimes not. When I shoot field, I use a tab and the nose tape is coming out. I've never figured out why a tab makes the string hit my nose so much more than a glove, but it sure does. Changes my tune significantly too. Basically, I've found tabs to be a PITA compared to a good glove.


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## leatherback (Jun 7, 2017)

limbwalker said:


> When I shoot with a glove (for single-distance events) I have the same result. Sometimes it hits my nose, sometimes not. When I shoot field, I use a tab and the nose tape is coming out. I've never figured out why a tab makes the string hit my nose so much more than a glove, but it sure does. Changes my tune significantly too. Basically, I've found tabs to be a PITA compared to a good glove.


Do you shoot a stiffer arrow with a glove?



Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

leatherback said:


> Do you shoot a stiffer arrow with a glove?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk


Just the opposite.


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## leatherback (Jun 7, 2017)

Interesting. 

I've found that although I am more accurate with a tab, the lack of weight the string has to push to the side allows me to use a slightly stiffer spine. 

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk


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## ceratops (May 17, 2017)

dunninla said:


> nevermind re: string blur. It is a standard part of Olympic Recurve aiming, but not so much trad or barebow. Some do use it as a reference, some don't. I've got a hard enough time getting what I AM doing consistent that I don't want to add another variable just yet... maybe down the line I can experiment with that.


Well, maybe one more thing to pay attention to is unwelcome at this point; I can understand that! However, as others have mentioned, string blur is another bit of information that you probably would be wise to attend to at some point. I think of it both as part of anchoring (verifies that my head/hand position is consistent), and part of the sight mechanism (rear sighting point). Also, during a competition, if my arrows are going right or left of where I want them, I can make a quick adjustment for that by shifting the position of the string blur -- sort of like windage on a mechanical sight. Maybe not a great practice when working on repeatable form, but it does allow for a quick minor adjustment when you don't have time to really evaluate form issues in depth.


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