# Samick Polaris riser and Journey limbs + string



## Joodik (Apr 5, 2013)

Hi

I have 70" Polaris with 30# limbs. After trying 38# bow I decided to get 40# pound limbs and I am considering Samick Journey limbs. Someone measured Samick Sage/Journey riser to be 19.25" long and my riser is about 4 inches longer, would I get a 68" bow with Journey limbs? Although there are 40# Polaris limbs, I want FF string that Polaris doesn't support. Would this be a bit risky as Polaris risers max is 40# pound limbs but I pull extra 7# because my draw length is over 31". Also, how long should the string be and how is it measured in LAS shop? Is 68" AMO string for 68" bow or longer?


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

I'd call LAS. They can walk you through it.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

Did you find your answers? 

Are the limbs on the 70" Polaris longer than the 62/66" bow limbs? The only difference between the 62" and the 66" Polaris is the riser length. I could measure my limbs on my 62" to compare.

With the riser being 4" longer, 68" AMO sounds correct. Also, the rated limb weight will be reduced a few pounds since the riser is longer.

I'm wondering if using a FF string adds any significant stress to the riser.

I'm about to convert my 28# 62" Polaris to 35# and 64" using Journey limbs. I also plan to use a Fast Flight string. (Not sure if I want a Flemish twist or an endless loop string.) In my case, the limb weight will match the rating because my Polaris riser is the same size as the Journey/Sage riser. I think my draw length is also close to 28".


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

I just set up a Polaris with "low stretch" (D-75) string for 24" pull and 24# limbs. When I shoot the Polaris with my 30" pull I switch to a 12 strand B50 string with BIG loops. The Polaris riser is designed to by used with moderate recurve limbs, both in weight and curve.

I would start looking into other bows (ILF and more expensive bolt and one piece rigs) if you start going towards to upper moderate weights or heavy weights in limbs. Bow rigs are simple..yet complex. Materials, design and state of rig all can be complex issues, especially once you go outside the realm of intended design.

The Sage limbs are very different than the Polaris limbs. I might put 26-30# Sage limbs on a Polaris. Low stretch string and pull 30"s also...maybe. 40#s...I do not think so.

Remember those Engineers and their 15%? Be careful and have fun.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

CORRECTION: "...BIG..." -> "...BIG thick..."


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Oh yea..Sage AND Journey limbs are both different than the Polaris limbs.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

35# is within the design limit of the Polaris riser which is 40#, but are you suggesting that a non-FF string would be a little safer? The nocks of the Journey limbs are reinforced for FF.

What makes the Sage/Journey risers stronger? They're rated up to 60#.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

"What makes the Sage/Journey risers stronger? They're rated up to 60#."

The above is a good point as the Polaris riser is not rated for heavier limbs or a "low stretch"/FF string. Wood as a building material needs to be watched/evaluated differently than proper metal and composite building materials.

I am very happy with the quality and orientation of the wood in the riser I recieved. I plan to keep lower weight limbs on this riser. Not all that purchase the Samick Polaris bow and then go to higher weight limbs designed for other risers may be so happy?


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

I'll let you know. ^_^ BTW, my Polaris limbs are basically 2 feet long, following the contours.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I'd not worry about low-stretch strings affecting the riser on a Polaris bow. 

However, the tips on the Polaris limbs are not reinforced for low-stretch strings as are the Sage and Journey limbs. I have a couple of Polaris bows, and looking at the tips, I'd be hesitant to place a low-stretch string on their higher poundage limbs. Mine are used as guest and form bows, and since they are 20# I decided to use low-stretch upon them and take the chance. They've remained strung and continually shot for several years with no issues. 

I did make a B50 string for the 20# Polaris bow that I set up for my sister because ... well, she's my sister, and I take a bit more caution with her than I do for myself when it comes to bending the envelope.

I've never inspected a Sage or Journey riser or hardware. I have refinished and carefully inspected several Polaris risers and their hardware. My only reservations with the Polaris bow would be the usage of the higher poundage limbs on that riser ... not because the riser wood seems flimsy (for it is anything but that) ... but rather that the counter-sunk limb bolt receivers and accompanying threaded limb bolts are not of the "Detroit steel" overbuilt nature that I would feel confident with to prevent ripping or stripping out of the riser under the stress of heavy limb usage. 

The Polaris is a hundred dollar bow, and the hardware (and factory string) is proportional to that price. I don't know how wide the counter-sunk bolt receiver threads extend into the riser wood, nor the fatigue potential of the inexpensive metal they are most certainly made of, and don't intend to find out the hard way.

Therefore I use the Polaris bows only for a lighter draw weight, one hundred dollar purpose ... for which they present a quite amazing bargain.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

What are we considering higher poundage? 35#? 40#? 47#?


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

For the Polaris ... I really don't know. I am only using my "sniffer" instincts on this, and can't venture even an educated guess. I am also aware that my sniffer might be completely wrong.

Personally, I'd not go higher than 25 or 30 pounds. By the time one is shooting with weights higher than these, I'd think that a higher-quality riser/limb combo would be more appropriate. The Sage and Journey indicate limbs up to 60#. The ILF rigs can also handle some decent weight, as Wseward mentions above. 

The Polaris riser is listed with limbs up to 40#, and certainly Samick has a reputable track record overall, so my hesitance towards higher draw weights on that bow is possibly unfounded (and I actually hope it is). However, its intention is obviously the beginner market, and perhaps most purchase the Polaris at the lower draw weights, anyway. The Sage seems to be the inexpensive go-to bow for folk seeking higher draw weights and low-stretch string capability ... the completely modern bow in design.

Again, sorry to be so vague ... I just dunno.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

In my case, the 35# limbs will be the only real upgrade. After that, I'd like an ILF rig. I don't see that happening any earlier than Christmas if I'm lucky. haha


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

You're certainly fine and dandy on that upgrade. Since you are within the Polaris poundage range, the Journey limbs at 35# should work fine as long as they fit upon the riser properly. Those limbs are made to accommodate a low-stretch string, so that's what I would use on them to maximize the bow's performance. The dealer you order the limbs from can probably provide a good matching low-stretch string for that setup. Either endless or Flemish will do the trick equally well.

Have fun, and ignore all of my speculative musings above ... just thinking out loud, which ain't always a good thing.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

Lancaster also recommended a Fast Flight type of string for the Journey limbs.

The only thing I really don't like about the Polaris riser is that using a plunger is impractical because there isn't enough space for it to work without having the arrow pointing way left. My arrows just sit up against the hard face of a Flipper Rest II. http://www.huntersfriend.com/products/images/arrow_rests/flipper_ii_300.jpg


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I use a cheap stick-on elevated rest on my Polaris bows and the arrows are nicely pulled closer towards the center.

I looked at the picture of that flipper rest. It looks fairly flat and would seem to fit closely to the riser, but I've never held one in my hand. If you were to strip the self-adhesive tape off of it and glue it directly to the riser with Barge or contact cement, you would be able to pull the shaft's offset closer to center.

If not, here is what I do.

I like the Bear Weather rest, but the Hoyt Super and Hunter (and their knockoffs) are excellent, also.

Dry-run a stick-on rest before you remove the adhesive protector by holding it against the riser, or taping it into place with some masking tape, and then eyeballing down your shaft. If the shaft is still more outboard to the left than you want, you can then remove the self-stick adhesive tape from the rest, and use Barge cement (or a contact cement) to glue the rest directly to the riser. This will pull the shaft to a point with the most minimum left offset that the rest will allow.

I took the tape off of my Bear rest and glued it directly to the riser and the shaft still sits just a bit outboards from the riser to the left ... a perfect scenario simply performed.

You don't want the shaft exactly centered, but rather positioned to at least a minimum degree of offset to the left (RH shooter), as per universally discussed tuning protocol. Depending upon your tuning needs, the shaft's offset can range from a minimum of just barely offset, say around one half shaft diameter, all the way out as far as the archer desires - as in several shaft diameters of offset.

Since the Polaris riser is not cut as far past center as the ILF rigs, I think that you'll catch a minimal and satisfactory offset with any of the cheap stick-on rests, especially if you remove the tape and use glue. Many plunger/rest combos simply won't pull toward center far enough on a Polaris riser as they would on an ILF's deeper cut.

Good luck.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

My rest is pretty thin, except the part that contains the spring which is in line with the lowest fletch. One thing I wonder about is having the arrow rest against a hard surface. Does having something softer like leather or Velcro somehow help?

This is my alignment using the Flipper Rest II:


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Your shaft's offset in the picture is fine. In your link where I looked at the flipper rest, the flipper wire has a plastic tube on it, which is fine. But if the side area where the shaft rests is hard metal or hard plastic, you need to glue a very thin piece of leather (or moleskin or similar) there to prevent "clack" sounds, wear on the shafts, and just a touch of natural "give" when you loose the arrow. The thinner the better, for you will be offsetting the shaft a bit more to the left with whatever material you use.

I just can't see the nature of the rest's side area enough in either picture to ponder how I would exactly perform this. But thin leather solves many problems, so that may be a good place to begin.

EDIT

Ah, I just read up on that Flipper Rest 2 and it is designed with a cutaway to allow the shaft to sit against a plunger. If you are not using a plunger, that would explain why your shaft is sitting against the "hard nothing" of the rest's side area. The elevated rests I mentioned above are self-contained with a built-in bump area that serves as the side plate.

If you wish to use that rest, you'll need to rig your own "plunger", or side plate, by building up that area with some clever layers of leather and gluing them in place where the plunger would ordinarily be. One layer may actually do the trick ... your eyeball will tell the truth. 

Holler back if this seems to be the situation.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

I placed the upper tab of the rest completely over the plunger hole. I had a choice of partially covering the hole, or cutting off part of the rest.









Here is another view of the rest. http://www.newarchery.com/content/files/mod.catalog/14a374b10e954f329473cd6f3e6934c6.jpg


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Now all you have to do is to provide a side plate for the shaft to rest against. A piece of leather about 3/16" to 1/4" square should fit and glue nicely upon the riser's wood right at where the rest's "L" cut is (this is where a plunger would be). You can build up more than one layer if you need to by gluing leather on leather. Just dry-run the leather to make sure the shaft is resting properly against it.

If you want the rest closer the belly of the bow (the archer's side), you can remove the rest and glue it back further to where the plunger hole will be exposed. You can then use a piece of leather to cover the plunger hole and build your side plate in that location, mimicking the original location for the plunger.

We're retro-fitting a side plate with the wrong rest - but since we're merely creating a substitute for the plunger, I don't see why this can't work out quite nicely until you decide to obtain a more dedicated rest for your purpose. 

Another alternative is to simply use leather and build a rest directly upon the shelf and side plate. There are nifty tactics for this, but I'll hold tongue on those, for you may achieve what you want with what you already have. 

Remember, all gluing with either Barge or contact cement can be easily removed with some careful prying and tugging, and the residue rolled off with your finger or via a light solvent. You can re-do the process multiple times if you goof up things the first time. 

Holler back with your progress.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

shuumai - 

With that rest. If the angle (of the rest) is right and you have the correct arrows, the arrow will ride along the plastic part of the rest for a couple of inches, and then be off the riser completely. 

Based on the pictures you provided, a plunger would not be an optimal solution, except as a hard adjustable strike plate.
(You'd need at least 1/8" of plunger travel to be effective.)
Cutting the rest to clear the plunger hole wouldn't be terrible, even if you have to reposition the rest a little. 

Viper1 out.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

I saw a setup that allowed total clearance for the plunger, but people commented that the plunger did or might bottom out, maybe it ineffective.


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## yugami (Dec 10, 2013)

The setup that gave me the best groups on my Polaris (off the shelf shooting) was with a thin piece of velcro acting as a pad on the shelf and a second as the strike plate. Anything thicker caused the arrow to go left, when I followed some bad advice and built it up about 1/8" it was going heavy left. Setup with the thin strike plate the arrow was just a hair off center and at 20yds aiming on center made the arrow go on center. A thin elevated rest would work, but I'm not sure that the a plunger setup to mimic that would have enough travel to do anything. 

I'm pretty much a beginner but I'm comparing the setups that were good and bad with to the ILF bow I picked up Saturday.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

yugami, that sounds right to me. I just imagined cutting off the upper part of the rest using my mini hack saw and adding the Velcro which I happened to have. Would it be counter productive if the Velcro ran the width of the riser? If anything, my arrow makes noise before I nock it because it hits the riser behind the rest.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

I just ended up with a new Polaris that I had set up for someone else. I will be taking off the "low stretch" string I had made for her as she only pulls 24". I will shoot the same 24# limbs (26# @ 30") pulling 30" with a B-50 string. The tips on the Polaris limbs look a little marginal for a "low stretch" string...and I am not going to use one pulling 30".

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2182199

I am thinking about putting some light weight, 30# Journey, limbs on this riser and then may use a "low stretch" string.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

The full width Velcro shelf I put on for a novice may get trimmed in half lengthwise in a attempt to reduce errant arrow contact.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

My guess is that putting Journey limbs and a "low stretch" string on a Polaris riser will cause the riser to see more shock/dynamic loading. 30# Journey limbs I can see using...40# Journey or Sage limbs I do not see as a good idea. MAYBE if you only pull 24"?

Remember what "Thin Man" said about bolt inserts?

Wood is a bit of an unknown when it comes to building materials.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

Here is my mod using 3/4" Velcro. It's thinner than the rest with the original adhesive strip. More so when it compresses. The strip is 1-7/8" long with the front end just covering the plunger hole. I might get to test it tomorrow.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

wseward said:


> The full width Velcro shelf I put on for a novice may get trimmed in half lengthwise in a attempt to reduce errant arrow contact.


I'd have to see it because I can't visualize what you mean.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

wseward said:


> I am thinking about putting some light weight, 30# Journey, limbs on this riser and then may use a "low stretch" string.


From what I've heard, the Sage would stack beyond 28" DL. Not a problem for me, but at 30" DL the Journey limbs seems like a better option.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

wseward, I didn't realize you had a 66" Polaris. In that case, Journey limbs would be lower in rated poundage due to the longer riser and the bow would become 68", I believe. Your 30" DL might compensate.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Shuumai, 

That velcro side plate might do the trick nicely. 

But ... observe it closely for this: Since the Polaris riser's side cut is dead-flat, a flat and long piece of material may present a "digital-like" launch point. In other words, if the material is long and flat, you may find that the shaft's angle is only making contact at one of three points: The belly (grip) portion of the rest ... the back (away from you) portion of the rest ... or dead-flat along the entire rest. There is no in-between on a long, flat side plate, since we are dealing with a straight shaft and rectangular angles. 

Also, not all flat side areas are cut exactly parallel with the arrow shaft, which can make this all the more obvious and problematic. It doesn't take but a small deviance from parallel to find your shaft wanting to sit either fore or aft against the side plate with no middle ground available.

If you find that your shaft is only in contact with the belly or back portion of the shaft, although it is sitting on the wire in the middle, you can get some fairly wacky flight. 

To correct this should it be the case, you can "bump out" the velcro, right where the shaft should rest directly above the wire, in order to provide a definitive and centered side plate launching pad. You can place a thin piece of matchstick, toothpick, leather, or whatever under the velcro to produce a specific spot for yous shaft to lay against.

This removes geometric variables from the longer and flat side material, and your arrows will always be launched from a consistent, centered, and matching area in combination with the wire. 

The smallest bump should do the trick. I often bump out leather rests on bows that are already curved to an apex in the side plate area if I find that I want a more definite match with the shelf's apex.

Just FYI. 

Good luck.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

Thin Man said:


> The smallest bump should do the trick. I often bump out leather rests on bows that are already curved to an apex in the side plate area if I find that I want a more definite match with the shelf's apex.


I just added a round toothpick right along the red line. The toothpick is only a hair or two thicker than the original plastic tab of the rest, not including the Velcro covering it.

Would you do the same on a radiused shelf?


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

That depends. Some shelf and side plate areas have immaculately designed, and well-coordinated, radii and apex points that perform perfectly with shelf material placed flatly upon them.

Others may be fine, yet once you have your nock locator set for straight flight, sometimes the downwards angle of the shaft across the shelf may have more separation away from the side plate's apex for my taste. That's where I'll bump here and there a tad to achieve a better coordination between both areas. 

Some risers have very little arc on the shelf (and some are simply flat), and often the same goes for the side plate's cut. I tend to try to mimic the nature of an elevated rest, with its equal shelf and side locations, on most of my "shoot off the shelf" situations. On some bows I glue the material flat. Others may get only a side-bump. Some get a bump both on the shelf and side plate. Some of my longbows are flat-ish in both areas, yet perform just fine with simple suede shelf material and no bumping.

You don't need to obsess ... but you do need to observe. Bows that are built for plunger/rest or elevated rest usage often take a bit of clever rigging when setting them up for shelf shooting. The mating areas do not need to be exact, but they do need to work well together. Elevated rests or rest/plunger setups are very exacting in their rest area mating. I imitate this a bit when I set up for off-the-shelf shooting.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

I guess I have a hybrid setup. Elevated rest and now a side plate. I guess the only advantage is fletch clearance.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Feather clearance is a non-issue if your shafts are fairly well matched to your bow's poundage and draw length. 

The arrow bends and wags from side-to-side beginning at the moment of the loose ... this is called the "archer's paradox". A good bow/arrow setup will find the fletching completely clearing the riser as it passes. 

Watch this short video a few times and you'll observe what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGNslUNBrEM

Grab this book from Lancaster Archery or 3Rivers Archery: Camera's _"Shooting the Stickbow"_

Very inexpensive and comprehensive ground-up archery technique and equipment setup. Four hundred pages of hot archery juice that will answer nearly every question you may encounter within your initial learning curve. Your archery library, as well as your target, will thank you.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

I know about paradox. I was thinking more of the vertical clearance. I think the range bow that I tried must have the nock set too low because I swear I saw blue paint on the leading edge of the shelf that seemed to match Genesis arrows.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

When I set a nock locator up for the first time on a bow, I cut short strips of masking or painters tape (about 1" by 1/8") to wrap around the serving as a temporary, and easily changed, nock locator. I'll use a bow square and set the first point overly high at one inch (yes!). I'll shoot a few, observe the flight, take notes. Then I'll strip the tape and place a new locator on at 7/8". Shoot, observe, take notes. Then 6/8", 5/8", 4/8", 3/8" (lower if I want to watch absurdity). 

I'm looking for the straightest flight absent porpoising, nose-diving, or lifting. Somewhere along the gambit I have run will be that spot. I'll double-check with the masking tape, and live with the masking tape on the string for a week or so. If I stay happy, I'll then tie a permanent nock locator on and get busy.

Weak or stiff shafts have their own processes, but at least this nock location process gets the best vertical flight out of the shaft in order to get the ball rolling. 

I am aware of the many recommended nock locations. I ignore them and seek the "truth" within my own technique. I have nock locations on different bows ranging from 4/8" to 7/8". Your finger pressures, 3 under or split, angles, etc. all come into play here, and conventional recommendations are just that: conventional within a ballpark for many.

If the shaft is either way to weak or way to stiff, sometimes it is hard to even get good vertical flight due to the spine of the shaft. I just noticed that you are using the Genesis arrows - I assume the 1820's. These are .592 spine, and though marketed as "kid's arrows", they were designed for the NASP school archery programs across the country (on a specially-designed compound bow) in order to level the playing field and provide a bullet-proof shaft for the kids to shoot. Depending upon the poundage you are shooting, these are fairly stiff shafts and, along with their very light points, more appropriate for the upper 30's and lower 40's draw weights. 

Food for thought. Hang in there.


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## shuumai (Nov 23, 2013)

Oh, I was talking about a range bow and arrow. My arrows at 1816 Jazz, which should match up better when I get to 35#. They're a little stiff at 28#. I put 145 grain points on them to help compensate, but they're heavy. I think my nock is tied around 1/2" up.

I don't know what I've been using to tie the nocks. Some scapes I found laying around after string work. I guess I need some floss. heh


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Floss works. I use serving material that I have on hand from making strings.


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