# Underwhelmed with Hoyt right now



## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I'm not loving the bamboo as much as wood cores either. The bamboo feels amazing but kind of turds compared to a wood core win win limb. I could have opted for the cheaper Integra limb and been happier plus kept 400 in my pocket.


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

stick monkey said:


> I'm not loving the bamboo as much as wood cores either. The bamboo feels amazing but kind of turds compared to a wood core win win limb. I could have opted for the cheaper Integra limb and been happier plus kept 400 in my pocket.


Yeah for sure. That's while you see my whole setup for sale. Glad it wasn't just me but there is no crisp to this shot...at all.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

splitthenock said:


> *Hoyt Formula XI Riser *- Great looking riser. It holds limbs. It has holes for other things and it seems like a well-made riser. The finish is amazing. This riser has those customizable string angle sliders under the limb pocket. I messed around with them for DAYS and they really didnt seem to make as much of a difference as three string twists did. Same with the customizable plunger/rest plate. You have the option of low, medium, and high. Really just seems like a nocking point fix
> 
> I have tried 4 different formula limbs in this riser and no matter how much dampening I have, it makes A 'PING' sound that seems to last a similar duration as the low-freq vibrations. My friends XI does the same with his limbs. Exact same sound
> 
> ...


Not defending Hoyt, as not to spark too much of a debate, but if the pros were hitting low each end compared to the last because of the wood in their limbs, they wouldn’t shoot them. I don’t think anyone can say for certain that bamboo or wood cores do this. The fact that most of the world prefers wood cores over foam while they are still shooting extremely high scores would seem to prove otherwise. Try shooting a 702 with limbs that randomly drop a great shot it I the 8 or 9 ring. 

I completely agree with the feel of Hoyt limbs although, while there are no huge differences, I doubt the Velos are just rebranded XTours. 


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

Gregjlongbow said:


> Not defending Hoyt, as not to spark too much of a debate, but if the pros were hitting low each end compared to the last because of the wood in their limbs, they wouldn’t shoot them. I don’t think anyone can say for certain that bamboo or wood cores do this. The fact that most of the world prefers wood cores over foam while they are still shooting extremely high scores would seem to prove otherwise. Try shooting a 702 with limbs that randomly drop a great shot it I the 8 or 9 ring.
> 
> I completely agree with the feel of Hoyt limbs although, while there are no huge differences, I doubt the Velos are just rebranded XTours.
> 
> ...


If you look at the materials, they are the same, and hoyt couldnt give me any hard answer as to how they were different other than branding. I actually asked 

As for the dropping, it's pretty well known that wood does this. I'm sure the pros just click their sights down during a round or what's probably more the case is they string the bow ahead of the como to prestretch it, similar to drummers putting weight on their snares a couple hours before playing live


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

Exceed + veracity is my favorite combo to date and I’ve shot a bunch. I liked the exceed’s (aluminums) ping. Tune everything else and you’re left with a sweet sounding tone that you can use to assess your shot. 
I’m looking carefully at a 27” exceed now. 
Looks like a good amount of the top Korean shooters have gone Hoyt exceed (not xi..) and velos. I won’t shoot Hoyt limbs because the finish is gooey and terrible.


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

ryan b. said:


> Exceed + veracity is my favorite combo to date and I’ve shot a bunch. I liked the exceed’s (aluminums) ping. Tune everything else and you’re left with a sweet sounding tone that you can use to assess your shot.
> I’m looking carefully at a 27” exceed now.
> Looks like a good amount of the top Korean shooters have gone Hoyt exceed (not xi..) and velos. I won’t shoot Hoyt limbs because the finish is gooey and terrible.


Yeah see, I find that ping distracting. Shot a friends Wiawis NS and Inno CXT (carbon) today and god I loved the sound, just a 'dunk' and nothing else. This whole thing with aluminum risers I think will die soon. I know you say the riser gives you feedback but come on, YOU know already how the shot went


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

You can make an aluminium riser go dunk if you know what you are doing. Just take a look at the percentage of top archers using aluminium vs carbon and it tells you everything you need to know. Not dishing carbon risers, the technology is now mature but still difficult to find two carbon risers that shoot the same.

So I just think you are wrong.

And the stuff about ”pretty well know that wood does this”. This wasn’t true the way you describe it in the 1980s. It certainly isn’t true of today’s materials. Their not sticking garden canes together with Pritt stick.

So I think you’re wrong about that too.

But no, I cant say I am overwhelmed with Hoyt right now. The Velos shoot well but I don’t like them. The Xi is too short. They basically dumped anyone who shoots a really long arrow out of Formula. (And the 27” Formula risers have been awful quality since the HPX... very rarely straight). Oh yeah I could buy an Exceed... hang on ... didn’t you tell me Formula was the dogs do dahs? Why do I have to? Oh yeah, profit.

So personally I am underwhelmed for totally different reasons.

Stretch


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

UK_Stretch said:


> You can make an aluminium riser go dunk if you know what you are doing. Just take a look at the percentage of top archers using aluminium vs carbon and it tells you everything you need to know. Not dishing carbon risers, the technology is now mature but still difficult to find two carbon risers that shoot the same.
> 
> So I just think you are wrong.
> 
> ...


I hear you. To be clear nobody can tune the ping out of my riser/limb combo. That includes the top shooter in my country, two level 4 coaches, me, and everyone else at my club. As far as the wood, Ive had multiple people doing groups and today we did a round robin of bows (xi+xtour, atf+nsg, innocxt+ns, metadx+mxt10) and ALL the other bows kept their sight level, but no matter who shot my bow with the bamboo, we had to move the sight 

SO YOU ARE WRONG MY FRIEND


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

splitthenock said:


> I hear you. To be clear nobody can tune the ping out of my riser/limb combo. That includes the top shooter in my country, two level 4 coaches, me, and everyone else at my club. As far as the wood, Ive had multiple people doing groups and today we did a round robin of bows (xi+xtour, atf+nsg, innocxt+ns, metadx+mxt10) and ALL the other bows kept their sight level, but no matter who shot my bow with the bamboo, we had to move the sight
> 
> SO YOU ARE WRONG MY FRIEND


I wonder if the cores in those limbs are cracked or damaged in someway? It’s clear that wood cores don’t do this regularly to everyone, even bamboo. I’ve heard of people loosing FPS on bamboo limbs over the course of their life (not many people, and not many DPS) but not in a single day. Might be a defect. 


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Or you are using a set of fairly old and potentially faulty limbs as your baseline.

I made 2 small changes to my Xi/Velos and it doesn’t ping. It doesn’t feel dead like a carbon riser either but it certainly doesn’t ping. So if “not ping” means feels dead an dull then OK that would be fair.

If what you say about wood core is true then nobody would use them and certainly the World Record would not be held with them.

Stretch


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

UK_Stretch said:


> Or you are using a set of fairly old and potentially faulty limbs as your baseline.
> 
> I made 2 small changes to my Xi/Velos and it doesn’t ping. It doesn’t feel dead like a carbon riser either but it certainly doesn’t ping. So if “not ping” means feels dead an dull then OK that would be fair.
> 
> ...


Hoyt sent me the limbs for free. Maybe they sent me a bad pair.


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## Dennis2581 (Jul 21, 2019)

splitthenock said:


> Hoyt sent me the limbs for free. Maybe they sent me a bad pair.


... and now you're trying to sell them without mentioning any doubts... classy








For Sale - Hoyt X-Tour Limbs - 70/42 - $450


I've had them for 45 days. Nothing wrong with them. Very light mounting marks. Otherwise, 100% $450




www.archerytalk.com


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

splitthenock said:


> Hoyt sent me the limbs for free. Maybe they sent me a bad pair.


Could be. You know they don’t hand pick the limbs they send you? They just wander into the storeroom, get the right size and ship them? It‘s not like they are hand selected “extra good” ones.

Seems odd that Hoyt sent you a set of X-Tours 45 days ago when the Velos has been around for 2 years plus.

Stretch


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Dennis2581 said:


> ... and now you're trying to sell them without mentioning any doubts... classy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It seems unlikely there is actually anything wrong with the cores. We just said that to be nice. It’s almost certainly execution errors maybe, however, caused by the squishy feel through the clicker. 


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

UK_Stretch said:


> Could be. You know they don’t hand pick the limbs they send you? They just wander into the storeroom, get the right size and ship them? It‘s not like they are hand selected “extra good” ones.
> 
> Seems odd that Hoyt sent you a set of X-Tours 45 days ago when the Velos has been around for 2 years plus.
> 
> Stretch


Despite me begging them for velos...yeah. I think what probably happened was they needed to send someone limbs so they hit the "not good enough to sell, but good enough to give away" rack and shipped them off


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

Dennis2581 said:


> ... and now you're trying to sell them without mentioning any doubts... classy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah they're smooth limbs that shoot arrows. Notice the price is about half of what they were new despite them only having like 600 arrows through them. Also I shoot 250-300 arrows a day. I'm sure someone who shoots 75 or 100, and doesn't shoot competitively, wouldn't mind that


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

Gregjlongbow said:


> It seems unlikely there is actually anything wrong with the cores. We just said that to be nice. It’s almost certainly execution errors maybe, however, caused by the squishy feel through the clicker.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right but then I doubt every single shooter of 4 Competitive shooters, would execute the exact the same, while degrading over time. I'm thinking since I got them for free I was sent substandard limbs that didn't make it through QC. Wouldn't be the first time. Also, the xtours were hoyts first foray into bamboo. Maybe I got a pair that was one of the first runs. Who knows, but I tested out the human/execution variable


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

splitthenock said:


> Right but then I doubt every single shooter of 4 Competitive shooters, would execute the exact the same, while degrading over time. I'm thinking since I got them for free I was sent substandard limbs that didn't make it through QC. Wouldn't be the first time. Also, the xtours were hoyts first foray into bamboo. Maybe I got a pair that was one of the first runs. Who knows, but I tested out the human/execution variable


Well what I’m saying is that because those limbs feel the way they do, it might be causing all of you, especially when shooting against limbs that feel more traditional stacking, to display the same execution errors of soft releases that go low. Then when you pick up a bow that feels tight through the clicker you execute strong shots. This is why nobody liked the xtours. They were too soft through the clicker. 

I’m actually trying to help you out by saying I doubt the limbs are actually defective. 


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

Gregjlongbow said:


> Well what I’m saying is that because those limbs feel the way they do, it might be causing all of you, especially when shooting against limbs that feel more traditional stacking, to display the same execution errors of soft releases that go low. Then when you pick up a bow that feels tight through the clicker you execute strong shots. This is why nobody liked the xtours. They were too soft through the clicker.
> 
> I’m actually trying to help you out by saying I doubt the limbs are actually defective.
> 
> ...


I hear you but then, wouldn't that have been the case through both sessions? Predictably, about 130/150 arrows in, those groups drop. It was worse on the hot day. If it was just squishy limbs through the clicker, those shots would have been evident from the first end. But we all shot yellows at 70. The others bows KEPT shooting yellow and while the xtours started there, _over time_, the groups dropped.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

splitthenock said:


> I hear you but then, wouldn't that have been the case through both sessions? Predictably, about 130/150 arrows in, those groups drop. It was worse on the hot day. If it was just squishy limbs through the clicker, those shots would have been evident from the first end. But we all shot yellows at 70. The others bows KEPT shooting yellow and while the xtours started there, _over time_, the groups dropped.


Ok 


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

Just as a note to the feel. I think the velos feel squishy as well... they would be great for longer draws maybe... there's no evidence of stacking which is the thing that I feel like my body likes best. To feel like I am pulling into the shot... maybe if my limbs were 4 pounds heavier I might get the feeling that I want despite the poundage difference. But at this point I think I would just rather switch back to wood.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Truly, all I am getting out of this thread is don't buy the limbs that you are selling. Not that brand or model, just the ones you are selling.

Good luck.


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

stick monkey said:


> Just as a note to the feel. I think the velos feel squishy as well... they would be great for longer draws maybe... there's no evidence of stacking which is the thing that I feel like my body likes best. To feel like I am pulling into the shot... maybe if my limbs were 4 pounds heavier I might get the feeling that I want despite the poundage difference. But at this point I think I would just rather switch back to wood.


Yeah I have a 30" draw. I agree with you! They dont seem to stack.If thats what you want, great. I dont think bambbo is all that great. It just feels like 50% wood but kind of without the benefits?


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

bobnikon said:


> Truly, all I am getting out of this thread is don't buy the limbs that you are selling. Not that brand or model, just the ones you are selling.
> 
> Good luck.


Ok so then dont buy them. I never said they were crap, just that hey there is this consideration, and so I wont shoot them because i PERSONALLY am not ok with that. 

Seriously, why even bother commenting. I dont get it. Also, you can see that people here mirror my opinion of the bamboo core, and since I have shot velos and x tours and i think every other high end limb in a competitive environment, I dont think im wrong with these ESPECIALLY considering i despertatly wanted to love them


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

splitthenock said:


> Ok so then dont buy them. I never said they were crap, just that hey there is this consideration, and so I wont shoot them because i PERSONALLY am not ok with that.
> 
> Seriously, why even bother commenting. I dont get it. Also, you can see that people here mirror my opinion of the bamboo core, and since I have shot velos and x tours and i think every other high end limb in a competitive environment, I dont think im wrong with these ESPECIALLY considering i despertatly wanted to love them


Actually nobody is agreeing with you about your main gripe, bamboo/wood being a substandard medium for limb cores due to instability. There are a couple people who aren't fond of the feel, but that is a whole different ball of wax. No concurrence on dropping weight/accuracy within an end/round... hence you trying to sell defective limbs (as you have assured us the error isn't you)... hence buyer beware (of seller).

Cheers


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

bobnikon said:


> Actually nobody is agreeing with you about your main gripe, bamboo/wood being a substandard medium for limb cores due to instability. There are a couple people who aren't fond of the feel, but that is a whole different ball of wax. No concurrence on dropping weight/accuracy within an end/round... hence you trying to sell defective limbs (as you have assured us the error isn't you)... hence buyer beware (of seller).
> 
> Cheers


Cool thanks a lot bud, cheers


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Based on everything you say there must be a problem with the limbs (Or the riser/limb fit if it is only being used with these limbs). Bamboo isn’t some amazing new limb core. Nishizawa used to use bamboo and it was a Border option for ages. I just don’t believe that a set of limbs that there isn’t something wrong with would do this. (Ditto for wood/maple etc) If they did EVERYONE would shoot foam core.

My recollection of Nishi was they were fast but they weren’t soft at the clicker - that is the limb profile not the core.

If you weigh them every time the arrows seem to drop do they weigh the same? is the draw weight dropping or the efficiency? The only limbs I ever had do this were foam... and they were about to delaminate But it was maybe 50 shots from “something is odd here” to ”boom”.

Good for long draw archers? Well I don’t really think so for me at 32”, maybe at high draw weights but if you are shooting at a weight level you can handle comfortably it makes clicker control harder in my opinion. Too easy to come through the clicker early which in turn makes you hesitate to draw confidently. This of course wouldn’t apply to Elite archers who have tighter control shot to shot. Maybe be OK for folks that look at their clicker when setting up.

So my conclusion is that crappy archers like me shouldn’t buy limbs intended for Elite archers. At least not these ones... I just find them much harder to get on with consistently than any limb I ever owned (actually that is not true, any limb except Hoyt FX).

YMMV

Stretch


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

UK_Stretch said:


> Based on everything you say there must be a problem with the limbs (Or the riser/limb fit if it is only being used with these limbs). Bamboo isn’t some amazing new limb core. Nishizawa used to use bamboo and it was a Border option for ages. I just don’t believe that a set of limbs that there isn’t something wrong with would do this. (Ditto for wood/maple etc) If they did EVERYONE would shoot foam core.
> 
> My recollection of Nishi was they were fast but they weren’t soft at the clicker - that is the limb profile not the core.
> 
> ...


Well my limbs are around 46# at my clicker. They really are mega smooth. No complaints there and they are smooth through the entire cycle. Feels like I'm pulling 4-5 pounds less than what they are. However the squishhhhhh at the shot it awful.

I think Hoyt sent me a bad pair. Considering they shipped the brand new riser to me for free, it's strange they didn't back that up with their best limbs as well. I emailed them and they haven't confirmed or denied that, so that says something in itself I guess. They lose weight over time, been weighing them.

As far as bamboo, are you sure Earl Hoyt didn't invent it?


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

splitthenock said:


> Well my limbs are around 46# at my clicker. They really are mega smooth. No complaints there and they are smooth through the entire cycle. Feels like I'm pulling 4-5 pounds less than what they are. However the squishhhhhh at the shot it awful.
> 
> I think Hoyt sent me a bad pair. Considering they shipped the brand new riser to me for free, it's strange they didn't back that up with their best limbs as well. I emailed them and they haven't confirmed or denied that, so that says something in itself I guess. They lose weight over time, been weighing them.
> 
> As far as bamboo, are you sure Earl Hoyt didn't invent it?


Yeah the whole situations seems odd. If you are a staff shooter this whole conversation is just weird. If you are getting some kind of promotion, it’s weird that they sent you the old limbs. Something is really fishy. 


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

Gregjlongbow said:


> Yeah the whole situations seems odd. If you are a staff shooter this whole conversation is just weird. If you are getting some kind of promotion, it’s weird that they sent you the old limbs. Something is really fishy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Neither. I was sent a defective item and it blew up. They replaced it with better gear


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

splitthenock said:


> As far as bamboo, are you sure Earl Hoyt didn't invent it?


I think Panda’s invented bamboo but the glue gets in their fur so they don’t make bows. I may be old but it was Hoyt/Easton by the time I started shooting. Core choices were maple and maple or maple. Then “syntactic” foam arrived with a bang (literally for some folks but mine were fine and I still have them).

I think your X-Tours belong in the bin - keep trying Hoyt you can usually get someone to listen. Also try your original dealer - they have ways of making things happen (although not so much with everything going through JVD).

Stretch


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## splitthenock (Mar 8, 2018)

UK_Stretch said:


> I think Panda’s invented bamboo but the glue gets in their fur so they don’t make bows. I may be old but it was Hoyt/Easton by the time I started shooting. Core choices were maple and maple or maple. Then “syntactic” foam arrived with a bang (literally for some folks but mine were fine and I still have them).
> 
> I think your X-Tours belong in the bin - keep trying Hoyt you can usually get someone to listen. Also try your original dealer - they have ways of making things happen (although not so much with everything going through JVD).
> 
> Stretch


Sent 3 emails to Hoyt, including their head of CS and Doug Denton (recurve engineer) and haven't heard a peep. I think that says it all really


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