# Old School finger shooter, would like some honest advice please



## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

Hello everyone,
Thank you for taking alook at my thread, this may seem to be long winded but I would like to give you as much info about me as possible, so that you may be able to tell me if I am blowing smoke up my butt.
I am 62 yrs. old and getting back into archery after 30 some yrs. due to work, family etc, I am retiring this Febuary and have been back in to archery for about 3 months now. Wow am I learning alot, I don't even know if there is a class for me anymore to compete in.
Anyway, I am at my best when under presure or stress, I am a construction superintendent with large hotels, airport etc, so I am no stranger to stress, that said, 30 yrs ago, I wanted to get into archery simply because I couldn't afford to buy ammo to practice enough to be all I can be, LOL...so I purchased a Black Widow recurve bow used for $50.00 didn't even know it was a good bow, and learned to shoot from reading a book on archery, practiced every day, 2 to 3 hrs a day if possible. I had 10 acres so that was not a problem for any yardage, for about 9 months and felt I was fairly good, so I went to a shoot to watch and see what the competition was, its was a I think 900 round very large bullseye at differant yardage, well I went home an got my bow and entered the shoot. Boy, talk about presure, everyone was shooting compounds, no need to tell you I was a little intimadated, but felt I was ready to compete. Well I ended up winning first place, and got a little medal,
At that point I knew I was ready and went out and bought a Martin cougar magnum M15, practic, practice, practice, know your bow and have confidence in your self, an be a machine , same movements every shoot, like a swiss clock, LOL...

Thirty years later, here I am at the same spot, no bow, money isn't a problem anymore, but didnt feel the need to buy a 1000.00 bow so I bought a Hoyt Ultratec xt 3000 limbs cam and ahalf, used for $250.00 tmd. well I was in for a shock, when I pulled it back and then let down, I almost pulled my shoulder out of place , at my age I am not the man I used to be muscle wise, an knew that was not what I want or needed, I am also a finger shooter and want to stay that way, so I thought I would go back to a bow that I knew and bought a old Martin cougar M15, it felt perfect and with a little tinkering got it to fit like an old pair of shoes, I took in down to the local archery shop ( I live in Cape May NJ.) and almost got laughed out of the shop, when I told them what I wanted to acheive again and compete and win. That did not sit well with me and won't ever go back to that shop again. unless they have a shoot, and if they win, they are the better man , and I will just have to practice more, until I can't get it wrong.
I am including a couple of pics of my Martin M15 for your viewing pleasure, because I think it is a beautiful bow, maybe just old school thinking but?
So am I just an old fart in thinking , I can go to the top of my class in nearby areas at first, and go from there. I am doing weight training and excercise also along with my practicing every other day to get my body ready for my goal.I am in good shape already 6'3" 215 lbs 
At this point, I am shooting an adverage of 31 Xs, out of 40 arrows at 20 yds, need more mental practice,follow thru etc.






I am still adjusting things a bit, and my body is feeling good, I know I have a long way to go, but looking to compete in the spring, I won't stop until I can't get it wrong.

Ok guy, let me hear it, Let the flamming begin...LOL... I can take it, it will only make me better.


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## eric schmaus (Mar 7, 2011)

Lots of guys on here shooting older bows, nothing wrong with it! Of course a shop is gonna' tell you to buy the latest and greatest bow, they want your money! Good luck hope you enjoy and welcome back!


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## big cypress (Jul 31, 2006)

i ,sir , am 73 and have tried probably a dozen used bows over last couple of years . i'm replying because of your comment about the hoyt bow . i bought a used 2003 protec with cam+1/2 and hated that bow . a few bows later i bought a 2003 protec with accuwheels and love the bow . i ended up with 3 hoyts with accuwheels being the only bows i've kept [actually just sold one and shipped it this morning ] . if you get a chance to shoot a bow with accuwheels i suspect you'd like it . in any case enjoy the archery and retirement [ i was forcefully retired 11 years ago ] . i'm still trying to figure out how i had time to work as the days , especially in summer , are full without a job . . .peace


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## tguil (Mar 3, 2003)

Vahena,

It appears that you are a Type "A" archer. Nothing wrong with that. I'm basically a Type "B" archer/bowhunter who worked pretty much in a type "A" occupation for over forty years. Darn near did me in. I most enjoy just flinging arrows to hit the "kill zone" at forty yards. Never have really liked competitive archery. I've always felt that being "second" is "first loser". Takes all kinds, doesn't it? As for old bows, my "new" bow is a 2002 Hoyt ProTec with CommandCams+. She ain't no target bow. My "go to" bow for target shooting is a 1985 Hoyt Pro Hunter with Accuwheels. "Old" bows and "Old" archers/bowhunters have class. Oh, you're still a youngster at 62. I'm 70, 6"3 and weight 185. However, I don't pull 70 pounds any more. I've lowered my draw weight to 55 and shoot carbon arrows rather than aluminum.

Best thing about being retired if you are in good shape financially is that you can do pretty much as you darn well please. So go for it!!

Tom


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Vahena..That old Cougar is a smooth drawing, good shooting bow....it was capable of shooting a 300-60X back in the day, the bow still has what it takes...If that old bow is what YOU like, then shoot the wheels off of it, and just enjoy it...The ONLY issue that I see with older bows, is the availability of parts if something breaks/needs replacing, and alot of Bow shops have service Techs that aren't familiar with them, and dont want to mess with them...If You are ever in the mood for a newer bow that is similar in draw cycle and shooting qualities to that old Cougar, there are a couple bow companies that still offer up a bow that might suit You...Enjoy that old bow, and keep shooting....Take care....Jim


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## willieM (Nov 18, 2007)

First of all, welcome back to archery. I am 73 now and love shooting competition as much as I did 35 years ago. I to like the older bows with round wheels when I shoot with fingers. I now shoot with a release most of the time so the newer cams are ok. The new cams are built for speed because that is what sells the most bows. Shooting with fingers is not as popular as it was 30 years ago, at least not in my area. I belong to two clubs with a total membership of well over a hundred archers and I know of only one or two that shoot fingers all the time.
My opinion is that the round wheels are much better suited for finger shooting, and the older long axle to axle bows are also better for fingers. That being said, there are some great finger shooters with the new bows with high performance cams.
I say go with what feels good, that you like to shoot and the scores will come. I have been laughed at all over this area with the old bows I take to shoots. When I come in to a shoot some one will all most always say, what are you shooting now.
Have fun, and enjoy what ever you shoot. Welcome back to archery. Bill


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## myya (Feb 3, 2003)

Welcome back to wildside of life.
I like your Martin Cougar bow. Very sleek ol' girl. I shot those many years ago. Just could not get used to the 50% let off wheels.
Please do not let those honans at the archery shop get you down. I have taught many young whipper snappers a thing or two.
One time I shot a Martin Lynx XR with 65% let off wheels and a hot pink colored riser without sights and shooting X7 2512 at 45# and shooting fingers. Come into my local archery club and picked on a kid that just started working at my local proshop in the area. He had every bell and whistle you could think of on that bow and shooting a release.
Well I challenged him to a pop and a candy bar for halftime. Low man with points buy. He said he did not want to shoot against me since I did not have a sight. So I offered him a 5 point spot. Boy, did that get his goat. So, we shot even up arrow for arrow. At the end of 30 arrows, I shot 150 out 150. And he shot 143 out 150.
Needless to say it is not all the bells and whistles you have, it is how you use what you have and know how to use it.
By the way, the young kid paid up. And the old members of the club took him aside and told him that I do this to every young whipper snapper. We then became friends.

So, enjoy what feels good to you. Shoot what you want, no matter what others may say. Life is to short to hurt yourself with new bows that you can not shoot.

I shoot two bows that I built out of spare parts. A PSE LD-300 with Barnsdale limbs and Vector Pro wheels. And a Hoyt Super Star with Golden Eagle Double Eagle limbs with Command Cam Plus wheels. Both bows set at about 40# @ 27" draw. Both bows have no sights and I shoot fingers. And nobody picks on me. Especially for a pop and a candy bar!! Also, I shoot from a power wheelchair.

Shoot straight and enjoy shooting again.
Take care.
Myya


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## shtf (Nov 1, 2012)

No flaming at all Im 43 years old here I too was once an avid shooter came back to it as you did and am engulfed again with everything archery and bowhunting. I can only hope that when i get your age Im still as avid as you are now. Like others have said man shoot what your comfortable with and dont let a bunch of a holes try to sway on what is comfortable for you. Only you know this. Its archers like yourself that the younger generation look up too. Good Luck and keep at it. Anyone can get good at this and win competitions with anything as long as they are good at it and are one with whatever they shoot.


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## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

Thank you fellow Archers,
For all the replies , I was prepared to get flamed, but it seems that everyone knows where I am coming from, thank you.
I have read your replies and have taken in all the advice from everyone, its seems I am the young stud here and glad my seniors responded, although I am not adverse to the younger bucks chimming in also , never to old to learn.
I will keep my eye opened for the accutec wheels bows, would love to try them, for now I will stick with the Martin but will keep an open mind.
I admire you guys shooting without a sight, I have not ventured in that area yet, and MYYA I commend you for not letting a wheelchair stop you from doing anything , and who knows? maybe we can shoot for a pop and a candy bar.someday..LOL...


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## willieM (Nov 18, 2007)

I don't think you will ever be flamed on this forum. Look at my avatar, the picture is of me shooting bare bow at the W.Va. State indoor championships about 10 years ago. I was shooting a 1979 Jennings Shooting Star, with Martin flite wheels with 65% let off. Still have the bow and shoot it some. Still have the white hair, just not as much of it.
shtf is right, the younger archers do look up to the old timers that are still shooting. Bill


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Welcome back. Beware, it is addictive. If you are like most of us, you will own numerous bows, many at the same time. 

62 is young, and I am right there with ya. I too am 62. The muscles aren't what they once were, but there is still plenty there to work with.


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

I'm nowhere near as old as you goats, but I shoot an old bow... ;-). My Dad shot a Martin Cougar Magnum in the 80's. One small word of advice would be to have the steel cables replaced. I believe Lancaster sells them. Steel cables can break, and cause a nasty wound. It would be cheap insurance. You can't see what is happening under that plastic sheathing. Welcome back! 

Oh by the way, I still shoot my '89 Provantage.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

biblethumpncop said:


> I'm nowhere near as old as you goats, but I shoot an old bow... ;-). .


Only goats can climb to the mountain peaks........


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

mitchell said:


> Only goats can climb to the mountain peaks........


Good one!


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## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

biblethumpncop,
I agreed, cheap insurance, I am heading out to Lancaster, the lancaster shoot off, to watch the competition and talk with people and pick thier brains. i will take my bow there and have them check it out and maybe get alittle tuning advice while I am there.


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## oldpro888 (Dec 31, 2010)

Welcome back, I came back ten years ago, and this year one two state championships. I had the cougar when I was shooting well and had to make a few adjustments. The limbs sit on two ball bearings, and there is a lot of space where the limbs sit in the pockets. On mine they would move from side to side, and I had to either shoot down to the riser or wedge the limbs is place. 
I shocked out the Vegas scores on the nfaa web sight to see where I wanted to be. X count can mean two different things. On a Vegas score they mean a lot, on a nfaa blue face, the x is just a 10 on the Vegas face. I am 60, my hunting bow is at 65, target at 55#.


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## tguil (Mar 3, 2003)

mitchell said:


> Only goats can climb to the mountain peaks........


 When I was in my early forties I came across an "old goat" of seventy bowhunting in the rugged canyon country of Nebraska's Pine Ridge. I thought to myself, golly I hope I can still do that at seventy. Fortunately I still can...just a little less aggressively than I did then.:biggrin1:

Tom


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Welcome back! I guess I'm one of the younger ones around here at 32 but hopefully some of you old goats can encourage a few more younger guys to give fingers a chance. Around my area, I'm also one of the youngest adult finger shooters still hanging in there. Don't worry about your age being a draw back in this, one of the guys that I'm consistantly trading places with is a Master Senior who still can beat me and my newer bow with his old Browning bow (in my defense he did win the unmarked nationals back in the 90's when there were still a good number of barebow shooters attending).


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## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

Hello everyone , thanks for all the positive replies.
i want to shoot spots,as my main competition and 3D, and Field,for some fun, although I will try to win, LOL... what class would I be shooting in ? Its been along time and I forget what it was, I believe it was freestyle A class back then. Does that sound about right? I know things change that is why I am asking.
Thanks again for the replies and suggestions.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

freestyle limited


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## oldpro888 (Dec 31, 2010)

Look into the senior Olympics in your state, or how to qualify for the national senior games


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## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

I jealous, used to have one of those Cougar mags, I loved that bow. Put it down as one I wished I still had. Gar. Good luck and have fun


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## Yakimarcher (Jan 16, 2013)

I still shoot an old cougar that i got used in the mid 90's when i was in high school, never had any problems with it.


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## jmoose77 (Apr 3, 2004)

mitchell said:


> Only goats can climb to the mountain peaks........



I haven't reached the peak yet but it's coming in view. :wink:

Good one Mitchell.:biggrin1:


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## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

Hello everyone, Saturday I went to the Lancaster shoot off to watch and pick some brains. Well I found Lancaster Archery salespeople to be top notch and very pleasant to deal with. All of the people there were very helpful and ask to see my Martin, so ofcourse I just happen to have it in the truck, got some looks as I used my rifle case to haul it, but over all everyone commemted on the excellant condition of the bow, also had them check out the cables and everything looked fine, the guy I bought it from, took very good care of it all those years. 
Also watched some of the shoots online video at lancaster Archery, botton line, it was a good day. Also I would like to thank everyone for responding, as I think AT is a great place, and a great bunch of guys. Thanks


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## wchamp06 (Apr 25, 2008)

Hi: I read your story and think I can encourage you to keep on goin. It doesnt matter what bow you are shooting, just do the best you can and have fun doin it.
I am 77 years old and have seen about everything, I think. I have had two silent heart attacks, bypass surgery twice, and angioplasty once. I have a half of a heart 
left. I have been shooting bow for over 52 years and still do but, carry nitro pills with me all the time, and use them. I decided in 2010 that I was going to shoot the Nationals
and was going to shoot fingers bowhunter freestyle class. I practiced a lot but I won the Nationals. Anything is possible. I was shooting a hoyt Montega with cam & half.
I am now being treated for macular degeneration and don't see well out of right eye so cant see the pins clearly, so I went to bowhunter class and can see over the arrow pretty good. I know this seems like a "poor me" but thats not the intent. There are many avenues available. Go for it!


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

wchamp06 said:


> Hi: I read your story and think I can encourage you to keep on goin. It doesnt matter what bow you are shooting, just do the best you can and have fun doin it.
> I am 77 years old and have seen about everything, I think. I have had two silent heart attacks, bypass surgery twice, and angioplasty once. I have a half of a heart
> left. I have been shooting bow for over 52 years and still do but, carry nitro pills with me all the time, and use them. I decided in 2010 that I was going to shoot the Nationals
> and was going to shoot fingers bowhunter freestyle class. I practiced a lot but I won the Nationals. Anything is possible. I was shooting a hoyt Montega with cam & half.
> I am now being treated for macular degeneration and don't see well out of right eye so cant see the pins clearly, so I went to bowhunter class and can see over the arrow pretty good. I know this seems like a "poor me" but thats not the intent. There are many avenues available. Go for it!



Not only is he still doing it, but he is still out there kicking us youngins butts...  Love ya Gerald!


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## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

wchamp06, thanks for the inspiration, you sound like quite a guy, love the positive attuide. I will go for it, and I wish you good health


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## shadowhunter (Oct 12, 2003)

If you can find a Hoyt Guru bow tech to switch out the cam 1/2 for accuwheels, then you would have a sweet shooting bow. I tried cam 1/2 but it is not a good fit for most finger shooters


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

shadowhunter said:


> If you can find a Hoyt Guru bow tech to switch out the cam 1/2 for accuwheels, then you would have a sweet shooting bow. I tried cam 1/2 but it is not a good fit for most finger shooters


Switching a bow from Cam 1/2 cams to Accuwheels will normally result in the bow gaining alot of max. draw weight...For me, it was almost 20 pounds...I've talked to the techs at Hoyt, and for the older bows,(ProTecs,and UltraTecs) with the XT-2000, and XT-3000 limbs, a round wheel will pretty much give 'Ya the deflection number on the end of the limb, for the max. draw weight on the bow, example, a set of limbs with deflection numbers of 82, will likely max out at or near 80# draw weight, with Accuwheels, or the older Hoyt Energy wheels....Something to consider ....Hope this helps Y'all out.....Take care!.........Jim


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

shadowhunter said:


> If you can find a Hoyt Guru bow tech to switch out the cam 1/2 for accuwheels, then you would have a sweet shooting bow. I tried cam 1/2 but it is not a good fit for most finger shooters


Not always... I know several people including me who prefer the cam and half plus. I have both and am going to be converting my accuwheels bow to cam and half pluses, like Harperman says, I wll have to swap out my limbs for 94 def to keep the poundage the same. The bow is much faster and still forgiving. I think Gary and I know Boyd both shoot thei bows setup this way. Its a personal preference, so try it out befre swapping


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## tpurn (Sep 4, 2008)

hi, keep on going with the comeback..I'm 62, came back to shooting 4 yrs ago and shooting better than ever..don't compete but do quite well and respected in my local shop, now shooting my 2011 Hoyt CRX32 with fingers and loving it...keep it simple...do well with recurves for sure, I have a Martin Mamba which I LOVE...lived in Ocean City for 14 yrs moving back to central PA, family, in '08...shoot till your hearts delight...Tom


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## Stillfingers (May 6, 2008)

Vahena,

Welcome back to archery! I'm just a youngster at 57, but I've been shootin for 50 years and still love it. Glad you're gonna still shoot fingers. 

~SF~


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## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the positive motivation, I am getting the bow ready and fine tunning, walkback tuning etc. to get true centershot and I am practicing with a blank target for form, it is amazing that after all theses years, my muscle memoery went right back to where it was, it feels very comfortable. My DL is AMO 31.75", and it was alittle tough to get that out of the martin I have, but I put a 39" string on it , and it work, without overlapping the cable. The bow is set up now true center shot, sight has been lasor setup to be plume and level, just working with sight pins verses a scope to see which one works best for me, at this point the pins feel natural to me and seem to be working better, less floating on the target. working out and feeling stronger, no fatige
Thanks for all the replies. Robert


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## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

*Finally ready for my coming out .*



vahena said:


> Hello everyone,
> Thank you for taking alook at my thread, this may seem to be long winded but I would like to give you as much info about me as possible, so that you may be able to tell me if I am blowing smoke up my butt.
> I am 62 yrs. old and getting back into archery after 30 some yrs. due to work, family etc, I am retiring this Febuary and have been back in to archery for about 3 months now. Wow am I learning alot, I don't even know if there is a class for me anymore to compete in.
> Anyway, I am at my best when under presure or stress, I am a construction superintendent with large hotels, airport etc, so I am no stranger to stress, that said, 30 yrs ago, I wanted to get into archery simply because I couldn't afford to buy ammo to practice enough to be all I can be, LOL...so I purchased a Black Widow recurve bow used for $50.00 didn't even know it was a good bow, and learned to shoot from reading a book on archery, practiced every day, 2 to 3 hrs a day if possible. I had 10 acres so that was not a problem for any yardage, for about 9 months and felt I was fairly good, so I went to a shoot to watch and see what the competition was, its was a I think 900 round very large bullseye at differant yardage, well I went home an got my bow and entered the shoot. Boy, talk about presure, everyone was shooting compounds, no need to tell you I was a little intimadated, but felt I was ready to compete. Well I ended up winning first place, and got a little medal,
> ...







Hello everyone,
Well here it is middle of March, I started this thread in January and thougth I would give some update to my thread and progress. for all the old timers out there.
Finally ready to go back to the archery shop that I went to and see what my salt was. I went on Tuesday so there were no kiddies there, I knew the old timers would be there as I have went to watch a few times, Went in to the range and the owner introduced me to the 7 others regulars ( old timers like myself) all retired, and talked a little while then it was time, I knew and felt they were waiting for me to break out my bow and shoot to see my salt, so as I did this everyone of them just put thier bows down and watched me get ready, I asked were to stand at the line, as I have never shoot indoors before and wanted to do this right.
Went to the line by myself as they were eyeing me up , OH the tension, I love stress, took my stance, nocked an arrow, blanked everyone out, did my shot sequence and................released.........First shot Dead Center in the X ...........and I mean dead center.

Next thing I heard was, I see you've done this before, Then they all came to the line with me an started shooting. 

The rest of the time there 3 hrs. we shot, talked alot and all went to lunch, needless to say I had a great time, and we all hit it off great.

I choosed to shoot the 3 spot, and I was hitting 2 out of 3 X's. I need to work on my natural canting of the bow as I was missing to the left at nine oclock , still in the yellow but still not a X. I don't like using a level on my pin, and yes I am still shooting fingers. I plan on shooting the 3 spot indoors, and going to the state shoots in 1 year, right now I will shoot localy and practice until I can't get it wrong.

I want to thank, Nuts & Bolts for all information he has given us and everyone else here that has replied to my threads, I have learned to tune my own bow, made a press and can do all my own work now and that is half the fun.
This is a great site, as long as you filter out all the BS, and latest and greatest stuff.
Anyone with any advise is welcome, as how I should proceed in the near future.


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## babassangler (Mar 25, 2013)

I just finished my "day-project". It's an Oneida Aero Force X-80. I'm a stickbow fan and for a long time I've been wanting to shoot a compound off the shelf. I drilled/tapped for a flipper rest as low as I could get. No sights, and shoots where I look at close range in the garage. Can't wait to take it out!


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## vahena (Aug 30, 2012)

???WWWWWWhat ???


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I have one statement that I find to be very true in almost every case. 

"it ain't the arrow it's the indian..."

If you fail to be the best in your division it won't be because of that sweet old old martin, she's a lovely gal. Ok well some of the newer bows will shoot a flatter arrow so for outdoor shooting at unknown distances it's a slight liability but if you like it shoot it, Don't let the Debbie downers hold you back.


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