# Personal Test/Research Results Regarding UV's



## butter21 (Jan 7, 2008)

Did you use their sport wash before you used to uv inhibitor?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

butter21 said:


> Did you use their sport wash before you used to uv inhibitor?



Not sure what your asking? but the sport wash only cleans your cloths with out adding any additional UV brightners and the UV-Killer is to dull the brightners that allready exist.

sport wash I like because it has no UV's in it, but it can't eliminate what is already there.

Reg laundry detergents contain UV brightners and can add them to a garment whether all ready present or not.

Or did I not understand your question?


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## DocB (Jun 27, 2006)

Very interesting. Of course I've heard about UV's in the past but never paid too much attention. I'm guessing most clothes from Cabelas would contain these UV's? Guess I'll buy a UV light and check it out.


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## PAstringking (Dec 8, 2006)

I believe the reason butter21 asked that question is that the sport was is used to open the fabric dyes...allowing the UV killer spray to work effectivly.

Maybe you can retry your test adding this important step.


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## D Fagan (Jul 4, 2008)

EXCELLENT POST! Well thought out and written. One other interesting thing to keep in mind, QDMA, unlike most of other television shows doesn't have a camo sponsor.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

DocB said:


> Very interesting. Of course I've heard about UV's in the past but never paid too much attention. I'm guessing most clothes from Cabelas would contain these UV's? Guess I'll buy a UV light and check it out.



Yes most of them will have UV's! It's best if you go to one of there stores or local dealer and check the cloths your interested in for yourself. But don't be surprised if you beat your head on the wall to find some that are UV free because it is very hard to do. The mini BLB light from atsko it's $9.95 I take it every time, but I am also descrete when using it just because there trying to run a business and I don't go in and tell them all there cloths are useless all thou they really are....lol IMO


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

D Fagan said:


> EXCELLENT POST! Well thought out and written. One other interesting thing to keep in mind, QDMA, unlike most of other television shows doesn't have a camo sponsor.




Thx...

Yeah true I noticed they didn't have a camo sponsor as well...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

PAstringking said:


> I believe the reason butter21 asked that question is that the sport was is used to open the fabric dyes...allowing the UV killer spray to work effectivly.
> Maybe you can retry your test adding this important step.


Oh is that what he meant...hmmm thx and as far as the test YES all of our test began with a trip thru the washer with sport wash! In fact one of the cotton shirts I washed 3 times with the sport wash before treating with the UV-Killer. I believe we covered all ways of testing but if you think we might have missed a method pls let me know and I will test it if it's something we did not try... it's pretty cut and dry thou.

thx for the input!


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## coop (Oct 22, 2003)

Very interesting. Do you know of any manufacturers who do not use brighteners and are made in the good ol USA? I'd imagine myself looking mighty strange if I attempt to sew my own clothes :wink:


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## Alpha Doe (Feb 7, 2008)

Where do you find camo cloth for making your own clothes?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

coop said:


> Very interesting. Do you know of any manufacturers who do not use brighteners and are made in the good ol USA? I'd imagine myself looking mighty strange if I attempt to sew my own clothes :wink:



Actually any camo that is made in the US should be UV free because for some reason manufacturers here don't use UV brightners..:dontknow: or at least so far that's what we have found.

But like I said above the only reason camo patterns are good is for there break up patterns. I use a lot of Natural Gear camo because the tones they use blend in incedible and I have found they make alot of it here. I did order a nat gear shirt from bass pro shops that came from china and lit up like a white t-shirt in a night club.(that is the one I washed 3 times before treating with UV killer with no luck. I also got a hat that two of the panels were from a different batch of fabric then the rest of it and glowed.

We have spoke to Sky Line camo on a number of occations because there patterns offer very good break up...lights and darks. I was surprised that they are actually aware of the UV factor but making things cheaper in china out weigh the few people who agree that being UV free is important all thou some of there camo is made in the US and Canada.

When I must have cloths shipped I just make sure the company ordering from will allow me to return things if needed. that's what's great about cabela's

We found that if we ordered 3 of the same thing sometimes we get lucky and one of them will have been made here in the US and is UV free. Sh*t luck really. Go looking for hawiian shirts for fall hunting made in the US that is a great break up pattern...:wink:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Alpha Doe said:


> Where do you find camo cloth for making your own clothes?


We ordered the military camo by the yard. If you do some research you may be able to find a manufacturer of AP and Treestand camo in the states but I doubt it. It would make a good project for someone who has the time and is crafty to search for one and let everyone know. If you ask them they will tell you if they use dies in there material. Tell them your concern with UV.


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## pegasis0066 (Sep 1, 2004)

Who washes their hunting clothes in regular detergent And, what about good, old fashion baking soda as detergent - I doubt it contains UV brighteners.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

pegasis0066 said:


> Who washes their hunting clothes in regular detergent


 Hopefully no one...if they want to be scent free.



pegasis0066 said:


> what about good, old fashion baking soda as detergent - I doubt it contains UV brighteners


 Sorry! tested that too it does...it actually glows bright purple.


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## pegasis0066 (Sep 1, 2004)

Deer can see purple... sorry didn't read your thesis above?


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## dac (Jun 27, 2003)

Have you ever tested any of the asat camo?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

pegasis0066 said:


> Deer can see purple... sorry didn't read your thesis above?


If you read it pegasis it will answer your question...




dac said:


> Have you ever tested any of the asat camo?


No I have not tested that but it is a good break up pattern. Grab yourself a BLB at a Lowes and let me know what you find!


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## RNO (Jan 13, 2007)

Alpha Doe said:


> Where do you find camo cloth for making your own clothes?


*Not trying to hijack WTAILHUNTER, just thought this might help Alpha Doe and others. Maybe you and your Brother.

BTW - Good read, enjoyed it. *


*Camo Material - *http://www.rockywoods.com/hunting.htm#Cotton_poly


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## jporlier (Nov 19, 2004)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> * this is why my brother and I went from gun hunting to bow hunting in a tree stand to bow hunting on the ground...it became too easy. Now we look for ways to make it more challenging.
> 
> My 2 Cents*


*

If you want to make it more challenging, why go through the effort to be UV free? *


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

RNO said:


> *Not trying to hijack WTAILHUNTER, just thought this might help Alpha Doe and others. Maybe you and your Brother.
> BTW - Good read, enjoyed it. *


I poked around on there site and I believe Rockywoods buys there fabrics from china and resells it. Not possative but from what I read on there return policy page well here it is

Rockywoods Return Policy
Flawed fabric
Unless otherwise noted, *we buy only first run fabric *and will replace any uncut flawed fabric returned to us within 30 days of purchase. There are no returns on patterns.

Any other returns are at our discretion, will be charged at 30% restocking fee, and the buyer will pay for the return shipping. If you have any doubt about your purchase, please call us first or order a sample prior to placing your order.

Shortages
All shortages must be brought to our attention within 5 days of receiving your order.



The only way to know is to call, if I get a chance tomorrow I will.

Thx for posting this info RNO good stuff, before you know it we will have half the people here makin there own cloths. personally I could care less what I look like in the woods so long as I'm seeing animals I'm happy..so hack away...


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## Corona (Mar 29, 2007)

Think about all the huge ground blinds out there looking like a glowing marshmellow... Double Bull is made in China...anyone shine there black lights at the blind and take a pic?


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## harleyrider (Jul 5, 2006)

Very interesting thread! I think I'll keep following it to see where it leads. I'll have to get a small BLB to check out my camo wear to see what happens. 

HR


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## ajkbruin (Apr 27, 2008)

anybody test surplus german flec camo made in germany? great pattern and cheap too by the way just not sure abou the UV


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Corona said:


> Think about all the huge ground blinds out there looking like a glowing marshmellow... Double Bull is made in China...anyone shine there black lights at the blind and take a pic?



*Yup! done it*.. I was just at the Cabela's grand opening in Maine with my brother and two other friends...we were there with BLb's in hand and checked all the new double bull/primos blinds, they all glow including the ASAT blind! My brother once again re clothed his whole double bull (about 3 years ago) which we use exclusively for turkeys with the army digital camo...:wink: turkeys see Uv and are said to have eye sight equivalent to 11 power binos so it can be even more important with turkeys...IMO

Even the white paint on decoys has UV...ever payed attention to a deers body language on a hunting show when they have most decoys out. I see the deer all the time come in stomping one foot at a time instead of puffing up in rut mode. Why? IMO it's because of the decoy, it looks like a deer but has UV on it so it freaks the other buck out a little. Stomping of the foot is a nervous unsure about something body languge from a deer. But that is my opinion.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

ajkbruin said:


> anybody test surplus german flec camo made in germany? great pattern and cheap too by the way just not sure abou the UV


I have not infact it's the first I've heard of German Fleck Camo...


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## DocB (Jun 27, 2006)

bump


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## meyerske (Dec 26, 2004)

I have to throw the B.S. flag on this one. :bs:

I've done my own testing and I've never found UV issues with any Realtree, Mossy Oak, or ASAT camos. And I've tested lots of clothes on different fabrics.

The only popular camo that I found with UV issues is Predator (Wal-Mart's camo also has issues). I've used UV Killer on it and found that it indeed works as described.

And yes, I've used before-and-after comparisons using the lightbulb you described. And I've washed the clothes.

Test some snow camo and see what you come up with. :wink:


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## VThokie10 (Apr 18, 2007)

hmmmm....


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## D Fagan (Jul 4, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Actually any camo that is made in the US should be UV free because for some reason manufacturers here don't use UV brightners..:dontknow: or at least so far that's what we have found.
> 
> But like I said above the only reason camo patterns are good is for there break up patterns. I use a lot of Natural Gear camo because the tones they use blend in incedible and I have found they make alot of it here. I did order a nat gear shirt from bass pro shops that came from china and lit up like a white t-shirt in a night club.(that is the one I washed 3 times before treating with UV killer with no luck. I also got a hat that two of the panels were from a different batch of fabric then the rest of it and glowed.
> 
> ...


The problem is finding one camo pattern that's made in the US. Checked your Bass Pro catalog lately? It's all made overseas at least the fabric is.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

meyerske said:


> I have to throw the B.S. flag on this one. :bs:
> 
> I've done my own testing and I've never found UV issues with any Realtree, Mossy Oak, or ASAT camos. And I've tested lots of clothes on different fabrics.
> 
> ...




I have no idea what kind of test you did? but 98% to 99% of all camo you will buy anywhere has UV dies in it. If you found a place where they make it in the states and it's all UV free then spill the beans meyerske because we have not found one yet! If it was made in china it glows, it's a fact!

And yes like I said in the opening thread it *dulls but does not eliminate UV's *and it is only temporary. We have proven this many, many times over...


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

D Fagan said:


> The problem is finding one camo pattern that's made in the US. Checked your Bass Pro catalog lately? It's all made overseas at least the fabric is.


I can think of one.:wink:


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## Timber Hawk (Aug 31, 2007)

awesome thread guys and great homework whitetail hunter. I know I am going to do my own testing on my camo. I'm a mossy oak camo guy.


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## mbw1924 (Aug 28, 2007)

will the water repellant spary have any effect on the uv?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

mbw1924 said:


> will the water repellant spary have any effect on the uv?


Never had the need to test water repellents.

Because I have rain gear that is UV free I never tested it on them and would be concerned with any scents they might give off.

If you get a BLB light you can spray the repellent on black t-shirt if it glows it contains UV's.

*Black clothing is a great way to test any liquid spray or fluid for UV's because black does not contain UV dies in it.*

Nor have I tested it on a blind. We never had a problem with that leaking either....sorry!


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Timber Hawk said:


> awesome thread guys and great homework whitetail hunter. I know I am going to do my own testing on my camo. I'm a mossy oak camo guy.


Yeah I have not tested the new Mossy oak tree stand camo which has pretty nice break up. But like I said we have both mossy oak and real tree camo that doesn't have UVs in it. It's just dumb luck if you happen to get some with out it.


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## split arrow 15 (Jul 1, 2006)

Is a blb light nothing more than black light?:noidea:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

split arrow 15 said:


> Is a blb light nothing more than black light?:noidea:



Yes it is very similar BLB(blue black light) A regular black light is a purple bulb instead of blue. It works well enough to know that if it glows in one it will glow in the other...


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## split arrow 15 (Jul 1, 2006)

My civillian clothes are made in china but dont shine under a black light. Would it be a different story if I used the blb light?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

split arrow 15 said:


> My civillian clothes are made in china but dont shine under a black light. Would it be a different story if I used the blb light?


Nope! they just weren't treated with UV brightners. A lot of carthart cloths are UV free as well and any black cloths.


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## Cmarti (Oct 15, 2004)

Man, something else to keep me up at night:washing: I appreciate the info, and I guess I will steal the black light from my Elvis paintings to see what is really going on here.:rockhard:

One more question science guys...Does the UV aura only matter at dusk and dawn?:set1_thinking:


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## dac (Jun 27, 2003)

Doe's any clothes that show up under a black light have the uv brightners or just the ones with the blue glow to them that have it?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Cmarti said:


> One more question science guys...Does the UV aura only matter at dusk and dawn?:set1_thinking:


Very good question..:idea1: deer will notice you a lot easier during dusk and dawn hours but they can still pick you up almost as easy even on bright sunny days....


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

Well this shortened my research.
thanks guys I was unaware of a BLB. 
or should it be BBL?

I will get one immediatly.

As far adecoys do you reckon turkeys are seeing it and just don't care? I have seen several turkey destroy a decoy in a fit of rage. absolutely flog itinto the ground like a mad housewife.


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## Punch_Free4L (Mar 25, 2007)

Great thread!!!


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

dac said:


> Doe's any clothes that show up under a black light have the uv brightners or just the ones with the blue glow to them that have it?


If it glows at all it has UV brightners in it. A piece of paper or white shirt will be blinding, cloth fabric will usually be bluish-purple color.


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## dac (Jun 27, 2003)

I just learned the seat on my summit climber glows under a black light


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

dac said:


> I just learned the seat on my summit climber glows under a black light


Yup! not surprised mine did on my lone wolf so we redid it in the army digital pattern! no more glow...:wink:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Hoyt Thompson said:


> As far as decoys, do you reckon turkeys are seeing it and just don't care? I have seen several turkey destroy a decoy in a fit of rage. absolutely flog it into the ground like a mad housewife.


LOL.... turkeys definitely see it. Maybe that's why they give it a good thrashing..:dontknow:


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## N2DP (Sep 4, 2006)

I only had a black light, but thought I would check some stuff. None of my NoTrace had any glow. I have three Mossy Oak shirts that I tested. Two had no effect, one was an orange color. Is this the "glow" that you refer to? Out of all of the things in the room I had 1 shirt, 1 pair of gloves, 1 seat cushion and my backpack appear in this orangish color under the light.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

N2DP said:


> I only had a black light, but thought I would check some stuff. None of my NoTrace had any glow. I have three Mossy Oak shirts that I tested. Two had no effect, one was an orange color. Is this the "glow" that you refer to? Out of all of the things in the room I had 1 shirt, 1 pair of gloves, 1 seat cushion and my backpack appear in this orangish color under the light.


If you are in a dark room and the light is on I guess the best way to describe it is anything that stands out has UV. You really can't mistake it. If it has no UV it kind of disappears in the room (for lack of a better word). I was lucky with a few of my things as well like my back pack and some gloves a few shirts and pants other then that there is a big pile of cloths that are now useless to me, some new some older. but they sit in a heep pile non the less.


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> If you are in a dark room and the light is on I guess the best way to describe it is anything that stands out has UV. You really can't mistake it. If it has no UV it kind of disappears in the room (for lack of a better word). I was lucky with a few of my things as well like my back pack and some gloves a few shirts and pants other then that there is a big pile of cloths that are now useless to me, some new some older. but they sit in a heep pile non the less.


I am in the same boat a N2DP. I have a pait of gloves made by Rocky and a Primos face mask that has a "orange hue" to it under purple blacklight. I do not have a BLB but I will soon.

Let me ask you this to see if maybe you know anything about it.
Been looking at this camo for a bit. http://www.multicampattern.com/
Need to get some new camo of sorts anyway and may as well get UV free while I am at it.
I have heard that all milspec fabric is UV free for obvious reasons. Have you tested or used this stuff yet. Looks decent in my opinion but have not pursued getting any information on it yet.


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## switchman3 (Mar 30, 2007)

I wonder if Fred Bear used UV killer on his red flannel shirt?


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

switchman3 said:


> I wonder if Fred Bear used UV killer on his red flannel shirt?


Fred bear did not have the luxury of UV brightners being apllied to fabrics in his day. only been used widely in the last decade or so.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Hoyt Thompson said:


> Let me ask you this to see if maybe you know anything about it.
> Been looking at this camo for a bit. http://www.multicampattern.com/
> Need to get some new camo of sorts anyway and may as well get UV free while I am at it.
> I have heard that all milspec fabric is UV free for obvious reasons. Have you tested or used this stuff yet. Looks decent in my opinion but have not pursued getting any information on it yet.


It looks very similar to the traditional army fatigues. No way of knowing for sure until you call and ask for a sample or find out what there return policy is so you can return it if it has UVs. I found out yesterday speaking to one of the owners (Bill very nice guy)of *RockyWoods Fabrics *that a lot of the camo materials(patterns) are made in the US but and it's a big but, after there made here most of them are shipped to china to have the UV die process take place and then shipped back. I told him I would be willing to ship him a BLB Light that he could keep if he was willing to check fabric before sending it if we choose to buy some. He said he would be more than happy to check for UVs before sending for anyone who specifically ask. We can't ask for more than that.:wink:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Hoyt Thompson said:


> I wonder if Fred Bear used UV killer on his red flannel shirt?
> 
> Fred bear did not have the luxury of UV brightners being apllied to fabrics in his day. only been used widely in the last decade or so.


*You are exactly right Sir! Infact I believe it was a plaid pattern on wool...*


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## lnevett (Apr 9, 2006)

Ok, another thing AT is "making" me buying, Blue Black Light on order...


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## DocB (Jun 27, 2006)

Well I can't stop thinking about this UV thing. While I don't think using UV free clothes is going to make it 'easy' I'm thinking it's another thing that might help. I looked at some of the multicam military clothing and it's pretty sweet looking stuff. It looks like a good jacket and pants will run about 100 bucks while the soft fleece type and the insulated/goretex stuff comes in at 230 for just the coats. And if a deers vision is schewed to the low end of the scale and red is at the complete opposite side a good red plaid wool coat might be the best of all.


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## benra_hogad (Jun 19, 2008)

There is a good article in this month’s Deer & Deer Hunting Mag. It is about how deer eyes work.


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## 9 point (Apr 23, 2005)

*Good post*

Just wanted to say thanks for the info. I'll try it.


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

Lots of interesting research on this UV glow...
In the winter while rifle hunting I like to go out and set up against a fallen tree in the snow, and rattle.
here in Sask we can wear whites, so I had a cheap pair of white coveralls on, step into the snow and you can just see how the coveralls glow with a blueish ,purple tint. It looks as if they have a black light already on them.lol
However I haven't found it to be alarming to deer and have shot some of my best wearing those coveralls... scent and movement seem way more important to me..
However I believe every little bit of an advantage we can get helps with the big boys...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

DocB said:


> if a deers vision is schewed to the low end of the scale and red is at the complete opposite side a good red plaid wool coat might be the best of all.


Any wool will work, wool does not contain UVs and explains why a lot of the old timers were probably successful...:wink: All though
I have not tested the blaze orange wool that is on the market today, they usually treat blaze orange anything with UV brighteners.


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

DocB said:


> Well I can't stop thinking about this UV thing. While I don't think using UV free clothes is going to make it 'easy' I'm thinking it's another thing that might help. I looked at some of the multicam military clothing and it's pretty sweet looking stuff. It looks like a good jacket and pants will run about 100 bucks while the soft fleece type and the insulated/goretex stuff comes in at 230 for just the coats. And if a deers vision is schewed to the low end of the scale and red is at the complete opposite side a good red plaid wool coat might be the best of all.


google muticam hunter and see what comes up. better prices. You will want to use layers under it though. And Goretex anything is going to be that high.


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## dac (Jun 27, 2003)

There was a time when I would not buy any hunting clothes unless made in the us. So I have quite a bit of camo that was us made and I checked it. And all I can say is a lot of it glows.:sad:


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## ftshooter (Jul 26, 2003)

*This study backs it up .......*

but, claims the product "uv killer "works ..I don't know ...searching for answers 






http://www.huntingnet.com/articles/article_detail.aspx?articles_id=579


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## dac (Jun 27, 2003)

Funny how something like this will get in a hunters head and drive him absolutely crazy.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

ftshooter said:


> but, claims the product "uv killer "works ..I don't know ...searching for answers
> 
> http://www.huntingnet.com/articles/article_detail.aspx?articles_id=579



Very good find ftshooter...I had not seen that particular study but it proves what we found..

As far as UV-Killer it depends on ones own definition of "Killing" the product does dull the UVs but does not eliminate it. My def of something killed is dead in this case dead to a Black Light...

*But it comes down to would you rather not be seen at all, or almost not seen!* :wink:


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Oh boy.

I have a bad feeling this is going to get expensive for me. I've got a ton of money in camo clothes that I have a feeling aren't going to survive the blue black light test when I get a light to test them.ukey:


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## chuckduck (Jan 4, 2008)

I dont know if its the same kind of light,but i held a bug light up to a white t shirt in the basement(all other lights off)and it glowed like a beacon.tried some other regular clothes with white/light colors and a piece of paper--all glowed.none of my camo gave off any sort of glow whatsoever,just looked like a camo whatever in a light.dont know if its the same as your testing,but none of my camo glowed but other street clothes did,so am i ok??


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Predator said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> I have a bad feeling this is going to get expensive for me. I've got a ton of money in camo clothes that I have a feeling aren't going to survive the blue black light test when I get a light to test them.ukey:


Yupper..Join the crowd! My brother and I have a pile 2 feet high of cloths that we wont touch anymore. leafy wear, tons of walmart stuff from the past that we wore when we didn't know about UV, by then it was to late to return it. 

It's funny a buddy of mine that I hunt with had a one piece suit that he had for a while and when we checked it in the blb light looked like a Christmas tree. It's all he had so off to the woods we went filming our bow hunt in trees 20 yards apart 20 feet up, I told him I didn't like it because of the UVs so anyway we had two very big does come in and walk right between the trees we were in. he stood up and both the does looked straight up at him...I gave him that don't move look all the while I am UV free and I was turning around got my bow off the easy hanger etc..then the does being uneasy after spotting him snuck back into the timber...5 minutes later a buck comes thru with his nose right on the ground on my right side, so my buddy was almost behind me from the angle of the buck, I was debating if I should shoot him but I got my bow and was getting ready to draw back...the buck stops dead in his tracks and turns to look by me right at my buddy I froze and I'm thinking dont move... and Thwack he shoots him with his mathews.. after we were talking about it and he said I can not believe that deer stopped and turned and practically had to look around the tree I was in to see him. and I was moving around all I wanted pretty much...he called me two weeks later and said I hate you....I just spent about $1500 on all new gear that has no UVs. He siad it was a ***** but hit a lot of locals to peice things together..

any way thought I would share that with ya...

The important thing is he now understands how important it is to be Uv free..


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

chuckduck said:


> I dont know if its the same kind of light,but i held a bug light up to a white t shirt in the basement(all other lights off)and it glowed like a beacon.tried some other regular clothes with white/light colors and a piece of paper--all glowed.none of my camo gave off any sort of glow whatsoever,just looked like a camo whatever in a light.dont know if its the same as your testing,but none of my camo glowed but other street clothes did,so am i ok??



:thumb: Yup a bug light will work! sounds like you my friend got lucky. It's funny that I hear a lot of people saying that Uv stuff is bogus, I've been killin deer for years with the same camo and never had a problem...did you check your camo..:confused3: then they do and find out all along they have been UV free.....hmmmmm that explains why I been seeing deer!


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## SuperXQuest (Mar 5, 2007)

Anyone check 2008 Sitka Gear?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

SuperXQuest said:


> Anyone check 2008 Sitka Gear?


I have not but it is a nice looking breakup camo similar to the new mossyoak treestand..If someone test the Sitka Camo pls post in this thread and let everyone know if it contains UVs...


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

black lights do not represent deer vision.
The end.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

kingvjack said:


> black lights do not represent deer vision.
> The end.



*Reading your post...hmmmm... there's 10 seconds of my life I'll never get back.*


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> *Reading your post...hmmmm... there's 10 seconds of my life I'll never get back.*


Good, try to imagine how friggin dumb it is to think that everything that is illuminated by a black light is what deer see best..

How about this, the sun gives out about a crap ton of uv rays, these rays are more heavily reflected by some things, to you and I as being brighter, so in the same means that you see colors because of the bend and refraction of the suns rays in your retina, a deer will see the same but with a different hue, because of the bend and refraction in their eyes.

Your study is completely bogus, because if it were comparable, then every person would literally be a bright blue spot in the woods, and that makes alot of sense


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

kingvjack said:


> Your study is completely bogus, because if it were comparable, then every person would literally be a bright blue spot in the woods, and that makes alot of sense


Pls instead of speaking un-intelligent about something that has been proven many times by different universities re-read the study because what you just stated is not what is said at all.

This has been a very mature thread for people who have humbled themselves enough to learn or at least look into a study that could benefit there hunting experience, and those same people have contributed to this discussion as well.

It was never stated in the original thread that anyone who disagrees was an idiot, so I do apologize if you feel it insults your intelligents. You are by no means required to agree with these studies...

Pls don't turn this into a romper room thread to suit your own purpose or to bash the work of others.

Thank You!


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## Pine Tag (Sep 27, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER,
Thanks for all of your great input. I'm going to have to get one of the BBL lights and try my camo. 

Starting back about 9 years ago I began using the sport wash and I was amazed at the difference it made in my deer sightings. I could move and deer didn't seem to pick me up like in years prior. That's not to say I could stand up and flail around but if I was careful I could position myself or my bow without being detected as long as I kept my movements slow. This seems to correspond with your theory of dulling the UV brighteners and from what I read in the link a few posts up (http://www.huntingnet.com/articles/a...rticles_id=579 ) I should be able to use the UV Killer and it would be an even greater benefit. I would like to buy the UV free camo but it sounds like in your experience it's very hard to come by so I may have to settle for what I have.

Anyway, this a great thread so thanks for posting.


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## Donnicles (Jul 13, 2007)

(((((scenario)))))))

after looking over the graphs and data my question is can I just wear black so that the deer could not see me?


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## Pine Tag (Sep 27, 2006)

Hey WTH,

Since you've done a lot of research on where to find UV free clothing in the US, did you ever run across either of these brands? Says made in the USA.

http://www.galaxyarmynavy.com/galax...amouflage_bdus_clothing_military_fatigues.asp

http://www.pointerbrand.com/DynamicProductCatalog.asp?Category=Hunting&SubCategory=Adult


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Pls instead of speaking un-intelligent about something that has been proven many times by different universities re-read the study because what you just stated is not what is said at all.
> 
> This has been a very mature thread for people who have humbled themselves enough to learn or at least look into a study that could benefit there hunting experience, and those same people have contributed to this discussion as well.
> 
> ...


Well, if I thought this was plausible, I'd agree with it... Your entire study is based off of a manufacturers advertisement... namely, this one http://www.atsko.com/articles/hunting/color-vision-in-deer.html

and their are scientific studies that prove my point, deer see in ultra violet, and also can see hues of blue and yellow. But, there isn't anything that scientifically states that deer see glowing blue. 

Testing with a blacklight bulb that you buy in a store is not comparable to actual blacklight testing done in labs. This actually is conducted using a "Wood's light" that uses electromagnetic radiation to produce a wider wave range in a UVA index. The bulb you are using (BLB ot BL) is extremely inefficient due to its construction and material makeup, and is restricted heavily to the longwave UVA region. What region on Ultra Violet deer actually see in is currently unknown. 

Also, I am not bashing this study, I simply disagreed with it. I feel you are misleading people. Probably not intentionally.


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## Cgarza86 (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm not disputing the fact that deer can see uv brightners but my question is , Do they really care? In the Few years i've hunted i've seen what i can describe only as, "a fare amount of deer". That and last year i harvested my largest buck to date, as did my brother and one of my friends from Michigan. all without paying a bit of attention to the uv factor. Without moving or making some sound to draw there attention i've never had a deer just look up at me like I stood out. And i know just about everyone that reads this has seen a hunting show with some big name scent clothing sponsored hunter harvest mature, big deer. So do the deer really care or are we just over analyzing things?




p.s. Please dont look at this as an attack on this thread, this is just a question.


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## Hickory Creek Stalker (Aug 16, 2004)

Aren't Vets now saying that Dogs can see in color?
My whole life I have heard thats dogs only see in black and white.
Now they can see color.

Me thinks that unless you were to open the skull of a living deer hook it up to a bunch of medical sensors and show it slides of different colors and shades of grey and black the world may never know.


Not a knock on the thread either.. it was a good read.


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## nolimitarchery (May 6, 2008)

My take is two fold. First is any little thing that helps in the field helps. Trying something different this season verses last is not a bad thing. I would not completely throw away all my camo based on this thread. On the other hand going down to your local army surplus store and getting a top and bottom (cost about $60) couldn't hurt. My question is when you say "glow" or "disappears" you need to define these statements. I live in Az and have a black light to find scorpions (they glow) and i shined it in my closet all the light colors showed up including made in the USA army surplus camo but some really glowed, Whites the most. Some were just elluminated buy the light. The dark colors in the camo didn't glow on the surplus and the Kings camo that I use. So do you just use dark breakup camo?


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## Donnicles (Jul 13, 2007)

Hickory Creek Stalker said:


> Aren't Vets now saying that Dogs can see in color?
> My whole life I have heard thats dogs only see in black and white.
> Now they can see color.
> 
> ...


even then how would you know its really seeing color?


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

Cgarza86 said:


> I'm not disputing the fact that deer can see uv brightners but my question is , Do they really care? In the Few years i've hunted i've seen what i can describe only as, "a fare amount of deer". That and last year i harvested my largest buck to date, as did my brother and one of my friends from Michigan. all without paying a bit of attention to the uv factor. Without moving or making some sound to draw there attention i've never had a deer just look up at me like I stood out. And i know just about everyone that reads this has seen a hunting show with some big name scent clothing sponsored hunter harvest mature, big deer. So do the deer really care or are we just over analyzing things?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The last deer I shot was 11 feet away, It looked right at me before I shot it (gun), I regularly wash my camo in Baking soda, which I guess has a uv brightener in it.... Point being to all of this?
Deer see in UV, but at what range no one really knows.... so the pic of the guy with the bright blue pants on and the commercials where the guy in the tree stand is glowing.... all crap.
I believe that its necessary to reduce uv brighteners and so forth, but to base all your knowledge on it is a little off due to the inaccuracy of the control. 
Take care of your camo, think about what your doing, don't wash them in regular clothes wash, don't wear em to the bar, don't let your dog sleep on em... etc...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Donnicles said:


> (((((scenario)))))))
> 
> after looking over the graphs and data my question is can I just wear black so that the deer could not see me?



Yes you could! black cloths can not contain UV and would be better then glowing cloths. However...without any kind of breakup pattern you will be a big gray blob to the deer which in my area is a concern for me because we have a lot of black bears...and it could spook them seeing such a big solid color because it's not normal to a deer IMO.. but I still say your better off in all black then cloths with UV..

My 2 Cents...


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

As long as you don't lean against anything where your outline would be distinguishable. All black clothing is a bad idea, the thing about camo or even the old wool shirts and all that folks used to wear is that it breaks up your outline. The idea is not to blend in with a tree, though there is nothing wrong with that, the idea is to be still and not be a human being.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Pine Tag said:


> Hey WTH,
> 
> Since you've done a lot of research on where to find UV free clothing in the US, did you ever run across either of these brands? Says made in the USA.
> 
> ...



I have not seen those patterns pine tag the galaxy says it's an import so that may be a flag right away for UV but maybe not have to call them. The pointer doesn't say anything about import but remember so i've learned that most camo is manufactured here and shipped to china for the UV treatment now. So being made in the US does guarantee it's UV free any more. Must call every maker and ask them. Any reputable manufacturer is going to know if they get sent to china to be UV treated...other wise make sure if you order from them that you will be able to return them.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

kingvjack said:


> The bulb you are using (BLB ot BL) is extremely inefficient due to its construction and material makeup, and is restricted heavily to the longwave UVA region. What region on Ultra Violet deer actually see in is currently unknown.



Kingvjack the blb light replicates a blue which is at the short end of the light spectrum(around 350nm), where red is at the opposite end-longwave length. That is precisely why a black light or blue black light is used. 

The purpose of the whole study was to determine how deer see, which is how it was determined that deer have a very large number of RODS (nerve endings) light receptors.(also why there eyes shine at night in headlights, this is caused by the tapetum) Studies show that all animals that engage in nocturnal activities have a large number of RODS. *(RODS are specifically used for seeing in low light levels otherwise know as the short wavelength/Ultra violet)*We have more CONES then a deer or any animal that is nocturnal, but cones were also found in the deers eyes. *(Cones are used to differentiate colors)*. They just dont have an over abundance of them like humans and birds. Not having a large number of rods explains why humans can't see well at night. *(we humans have a UV filter built into our eyes , deer do not. A Uv filter helps make things clearer and/or not fuzzy and allows us to notice even the slightest hue of a color. Because deer have no filter and fewer cones colors are not vivid to them and makes things more grayish)* This is why you see people who shoot guns in competition use yellow shooting glass's because it helps filter even more UVs and allows for sharper vision.

I appreciate your input as well, it makes for a good debate on the issue.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Cgarza86 said:


> I'm not disputing the fact that deer can see uv brightners but my question is , Do they really care? In the Few years i've hunted i've seen what i can describe only as, "a fare amount of deer". That and last year i harvested my largest buck to date, as did my brother and one of my friends from Michigan. all without paying a bit of attention to the uv factor. Without moving or making some sound to draw there attention i've never had a deer just look up at me like I stood out. And i know just about everyone that reads this has seen a hunting show with some big name scent clothing sponsored hunter harvest mature, big deer. So do the deer really care or are we just over analyzing things?
> 
> p.s. Please dont look at this as an attack on this thread, this is just a question.


No problem Cgarza that is a valid question, I have had many others say to me, I pay no attention to UV and see a lot of deer and I ask them have you checked your cloths for UVs? there answer no! So I say check them. They did and they say none of my cloths glow! I say hmmmm I think we now know why your seeing a lot of deer. So I ask the same question to you? You very well may have been UV free all this time. ????


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Hickory Creek Stalker said:


> Aren't Vets now saying that Dogs can see in color?
> My whole life I have heard thats dogs only see in black and white.
> Now they can see color.
> 
> ...



Once again Hickory Creek Stalker valid question, but I can guarantee if you or I go run around our houses in the dark at night we will get or eyes poked out by a stick or kill ourselves...lol. I know my dog is crazy and he goes out and does laps in the woods for no reason at night sometimes, when he comes back he doesn't have a scratch on him. That is convincing enough for me to say they can see at night. It only makes sense to me that there vision is very similar to a deers.

IMO...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

nolimitarchery said:


> My take is two fold. First is any little thing that helps in the field helps. Trying something different this season verses last is not a bad thing. I would not completely throw away all my camo based on this thread. On the other hand going down to your local army surplus store and getting a top and bottom (cost about $60) couldn't hurt. My question is when you say "glow" or "disappears" you need to define these statements. I live in Az and have a black light to find scorpions (they glow) and i shined it in my closet all the light colors showed up including made in the USA army surplus camo but some really glowed, Whites the most. Some were just elluminated buy the light. The dark colors in the camo didn't glow on the surplus and the Kings camo that I use. So do you just use dark breakup camo?


Yes! I use what ever does not glow, I don't even care if its camo i just like to find light and dark tones if possible. remember army surplus camo I don't believe are the same as military issue, there military replicas of the same pattern I believe...

As far as defining the glow and disappears if you have a black light in a totally black room(no other lights on or shining in that room) it glows if you can easily see the outline of the shirt/pants when holding them up. And if it has no UVs you will not be able to see there outline. cloths that don't have UVs kinda blend with the darkness in the room. I hope this makes more sense if not sorry...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

kingvjack said:


> the thing about camo or even the old wool shirts and all that folks used to wear is that *it breaks up your outline*. The idea is not to blend in with a tree, though there is nothing wrong with that, the idea is to be still and not be a human being.


I agree.... we just have to remember that there are no UVs in nature or at least not in north america...lol blending with our surroundings I assume everyone that hunts practices on a regular basis in the woods.


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## BOE_Hunter (Jul 29, 2005)

Whew.....Okay, I spent the last two days trying to find the right light bulb to check my camo. And after all that, only one jacket had some "glow" to it. That one is now a casual coat. Fortunately, the rest seemed okay. 

It is important for me to tell everyone that I have never washed these clothes in regular detergents. I have always used the Wildlife Research Center detergents that kill scent. They are also UV brightener free. As for my Scentblocker clothes, I only rinse them with tap water and then dry them.

The bulk of my clothes are Realtree Hardwoods, Realtree Hardwoods AP and some Mossy Oak. 

Hope everyone else can breathe a sigh of relief too.


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## deerhunter3241 (Jun 7, 2004)

WTAILHUNTER,

I really like your post and the information seems valid enough...I would like to make a request...Is their anyway you could get a picture of your homemade non-uv clothes next to regular over the counter uv died clothes under a black light...That would be a huge seller on your point here and I think it would really make everyone take notice to this idea...!

You know what they say..."Seeing is Believing"

Thanks again...very interesting...


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## bowhuntnsteve (Jul 1, 2006)

I have no idea what or who is right or wrong or what deer really see except what a deer knows. I always wore camo of all sorts, had deer walk by me close, a buck about brushed me as I clung to a pinetree as he was following a doe grunting. Never spooked & kept on with his business. I have fooled deer alot, I primarily hunt on the ground 95% of the time. I get busted alot as well. My thing is to break up my silouette and outline with bushes, limbs & branches. Most the deer I see are either early mornings or late evenings catching them to and fro to feed. If I am a blue blob, sobeit, but I taken my fair share of bucks stalking them. I mean if its that prominent they see UV, a ton of guys sure put the smack down on caribou in the open grounds to those critters and I am sure they are quite on the same spectrum as whitetails and those have less cover & no treestands. I will keep my focus on scent since that is their #1 defense mechanism. You can fool their eyes but not their nose.


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Kingvjack the blb light replicates a blue which is at the short end of the light spectrum(around 350nm), where red is at the opposite end-longwave length. That is precisely why a black light or blue black light is used.
> 
> The purpose of the whole study was to determine how deer see, which is how it was determined that deer have a very large number of RODS (nerve endings) light receptors.(also why there eyes shine at night in headlights, this is caused by the tapetum) Studies show that all animals that engage in nocturnal activities have a large number of RODS. *(RODS are specifically used for seeing in low light levels otherwise know as the short wavelength/Ultra violet)*We have more CONES then a deer or any animal that is nocturnal, but cones were also found in the deers eyes. *(Cones are used to differentiate colors)*. They just dont have an over abundance of them like humans and birds. Not having a large number of rods explains why humans can't see well at night. *(we humans have a UV filter built into our eyes , deer do not. A Uv filter helps make things clearer and/or not fuzzy and allows us to notice even the slightest hue of a color. Because deer have no filter and fewer cones colors are not vivid to them and makes things more grayish)* This is why you see people who shoot guns in competition use yellow shooting glass's because it helps filter even more UVs and allows for sharper vision.
> 
> I appreciate your input as well, it makes for a good debate on the issue.


Low light levels do not mean short wavelengths. Blue, Purple, and UV do in fact have the shortest wavelengths but it sure as heck is not because the light levels are low. These are actually the most intense. The shorter the wavelength the higher the frequency and vise versa. The hotter portion of the stars in our sky range from a bright yellow to UV and gamma in the wavelengths the emit. Those stars glowing in the UV which appear to be just a white spot to us are certainly not emitting in the UV because the light levels are low in them. They glow in the UV because they are burning at millions of degrees Kelvin. 

Rods are in fact used in low light levels. However, this doesn't specifically mean that allows them to see in the ultraviolet spectrum better. It simply makes them more sensitive to light. Our Sun emits so many UV's that anytime during daylight would drowned out anything a humans clothes might REFLECT. I think this is the key word here because camo clothing or any clothing in particular cannot EMIT UV's as it has been made to sound on here. They can only reflect them. That is why a white Tshirt or anything will glow the brightest under a black light. White is the closest color to UV and will there for be the best at reflecting it. Clothing itself cannot EMIT UV's only REFLECT it.

Good read though and makes you think


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

BOE_Hunter said:


> The bulk of my clothes are Realtree Hardwoods, Realtree Hardwoods AP and some Mossy Oak.


Have you found realtree AP that does not glow? When I was at cabela's thou I didn't have access to a dark room it seemed to me that everything I tested in the new AP lit up under the UV light. IMO the new AP is one of the best break-up patterns out there right now and would be a huge benefit for hunters hunting in hardwoods to get our hands on some UV free AP...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

deerhunter3241 said:


> WTAILHUNTER,
> 
> I really like your post and the information seems valid enough...I would like to make a request...Is their anyway you could get a picture of your homemade non-uv clothes next to regular over the counter uv died clothes under a black light...That would be a huge seller on your point here and I think it would really make everyone take notice to this idea...!
> 
> ...


I have thought about doing that very thing but don't think the camera will take a pic in the dark without a flash.(thou I have not tried) I will try this tonight and see what happens, then post the results.

Thx for the suggestion...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

bowhuntnsteve said:


> I have no idea what or who is right or wrong or what deer really see except what a deer knows. I always wore camo of all sorts, had deer walk by me close, a buck about brushed me as I clung to a pinetree as he was following a doe grunting. Never spooked & kept on with his business. I have fooled deer alot, I primarily hunt on the ground 95% of the time. I get busted alot as well. My thing is to break up my silouette and outline with bushes, limbs & branches. Most the deer I see are either early mornings or late evenings catching them to and fro to feed. If I am a blue blob, sobeit, but I taken my fair share of bucks stalking them. I mean if its that prominent they see UV, a ton of guys sure put the smack down on caribou in the open grounds to those critters and I am sure they are quite on the same spectrum as whitetails and those have less cover & no treestands. I will keep my focus on scent since that is their #1 defense mechanism. You can fool their eyes but not their nose.



You could be hunting UV free and don't even know it....:wink:

What ever your doing I would keep it up cause it sounds like your doin things right...I will be putting serious time in ground hunting this year for the first time. I have done it a little but usually sit in a tree stand...but with the increasing number of stands being stolen around here I just don't want to take the chance any more....


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

IL 88 said:


> Rods are in fact used in low light levels. However, this doesn't specifically mean that allows them to see in the ultraviolet spectrum better. It simply makes them more sensitive to light. *Our Sun emits so many UV's that anytime during daylight would drowned out anything a humans clothes might REFLECT. I think this is the key word here because camo clothing or any clothing in particular cannot EMIT UV's as it has been made to sound on here. * They can only reflect them. That is why a white Tshirt or anything will glow the brightest under a black light. White is the closest color to UV and will there for be the best at reflecting it. Clothing itself cannot EMIT UV's only REFLECT it.
> 
> Good read though and makes you think



At no point was the statement made about cloths *emitting like they themselves are there own beacon* (*at least I hope no one has interpreted it that way*) everything that has been discussed is about how some camo can reflect UV, otherwise you would not need a light source to see if it contains UVs. As far as the sun drowning out any UV during the day *that is false*! and has also been proven as part of the studys done on how deer see. It is obvious by what has been said threw out this thread that your chances of getting seen in the middle of a bright sunny day are less then at dawn or dusk but has been proven that they still are sensitive to UVs even in the middle of the day. We have all seen hunters on TV(who have to hunt during daylight for video get busted by a deer walking by when they look straight up at them...It goes without saying that most success for hunters is at either dawn or dusk during low light levels..where as deer have a lot of RODS in there eyes which enables them to obsorb more light into the eye where it is then reflected.

Sorry! I know when someone digs deep into this study it can be confusing...and certain terms seem like a play on words.


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

What I'm referring to is how the phrase "contain UV's" is constantly used. I don't want anyone to be mislead. Being a biology major and taking too many chemistry classes has taught me a few things. Never trust any study until you thoroughly read through their experimental design. If I could read a detailed description of this study you state as truth then possibly I might agree. But until I see some hard evidence that a hunter's clothing somehow amplifies the huge amounts of UV radiation given off by the Sun, I don't buy it. I like how you attribute TV hunters getting busted immediately to UV. Waaaayyy too many factors there. And yes, exactly as I said, the Rods in the deer's eyes makes them far more sensitive to light than our own eyes. However, my main point was that you called this the same thing as UV or short wavelenghts. Well sorry, not the case. 

Sorry! I know when someone gets into real science it gets a bit confusing.


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

You can read some of the best scientific journals in the world

Over half of what is in there is absolute crap because of poor experimental design


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

IL 88 said:


> What I'm referring to is how the phrase "contain UV's" is constantly used. I don't want anyone to be mislead. Being a biology major and taking too many chemistry classes has taught me a few things. Never trust any study until you thoroughly read through their experimental design. If I could read a detailed description of this study you state as truth then possibly I might agree. But until I see some hard evidence that a hunter's clothing somehow amplifies the huge amounts of UV radiation given off by the Sun, I don't buy it. I like how you attribute TV hunters getting busted immediately to UV. Waaaayyy too many factors there. And yes, exactly as I said, the Rods in the deer's eyes makes them far more sensitive to light than our own eyes. However, my main point was that you called this the same thing as UV or short wavelenghts. Well sorry, not the case.
> 
> Sorry! I know when someone gets into real science it gets a bit confusing.


They contain UV brighteners! It sounds like your getting offended IL88 which is not my intention. No one is pointing you out to say your a dummy...I think you trying to make a point that isn't there...If you do your research on the universitys that did the studys I'm sure they would gladly send you there whole lab design and set up and how they came to the conclusion on deer eye sight....lets agree to disagree. Certain clothing has UV brighteners in them which can be easily seen at dawn and dusk by deer when reflected. Conclusion wear UV don't wear UV it's up to the individual.. happy hunting..

Thx for your input...


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

Sounds good... we'll agree to disagree

Nothing wrong with healthy debate


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## emmac13 (Jun 20, 2007)

I worked in the UV curing field for a corporation that made the UV lamps for manufacturing companies doing powder coat and fiber optics. These lamps use microwaves to stimulate the bulbs. Their were approxamately three different bulbs to cover the spectrum. One had blue light and one redish. These lamps took a lot of power and gave of a tremendous amount of heat. Now since powder coating and fiber optics use UV curing and has UV sensitive chemicals. And this is on our bow sights and treestands. Can the deer see it? I am really now thinking the deer see everything. It is just a matter of not letting them know what you are. And that is- a threat to their survival. Thus needing to have no outline or scent.


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## dac (Jun 27, 2003)

On the subject of the sport wash has anyone taken two white tshirts looked at them under a BL and then washed one in UV killer and see what the difference was?


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

WTAILHUNTER,

I'm glad my previous thread with regard to QDMA and UV has inspired you to start this thread, for it has been a very interesting read.

I am presently highly invested in thousands of dollars worth of Cabelas hunting wear purchased in the last 10 years, but I have not payed much attention to the UV thing at all, and like others have had a fair amount of success without it.

Have I been busted numerous times also? Absolutely, but from exactly what, I don't really know; but I am leaning to scent over vision most of the time, since a hunter can never eliminate his scent in the woods. I do think it is possible that without moving deer may still bust me with their vision, but I am not yet convinced that it is the result of UV detection, but after reading your well organized work, I am leaving the door open to that possibility.

What I do know is that your thread will inspire many to check their clothes and that many lights will be purchased to do so. The manufacturers of black lights will be very happy. 

On one side you have a group that are trying to convince the hunter that UV in their clothes is a very serious issue, and on the other side you hear that we haven't proven how deer interpret this, and that the natural UV given off by the sun makes it all a moot point.

I don't know who is correct or if we will ever know, but you have me planning a trip to Lowe's to get that damn light and check my clothes. Well done!


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## Cmarti (Oct 15, 2004)

skyhunter said:


> WTAILHUNTER,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am in the same boat, and will test my clothes. The real question is if I have enough stones to tell my wife:slapper: all those $ at Cabelas are a waste, and I need new clothes:tongue: My bet is I will not poke the dragon:grinch:, and hunt in my lavender glowing outfits, and still probably see deer.

However, It is something I will continue to learn about and if it matters, I will factor in my purchasing decisions.


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

Good read and good test I just don't quite agree on some parts

I'll give ya a :darkbeer:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

emmac13 said:


> I worked in the UV curing field for a corporation that made the UV lamps for manufacturing companies doing powder coat and fiber optics. These lamps use microwaves to stimulate the bulbs. Their were approxamately three different bulbs to cover the spectrum. One had blue light and one redish. These lamps took a lot of power and gave of a tremendous amount of heat. Now since powder coating and fiber optics use UV curing and has UV sensitive chemicals. And this is on our bow sights and treestands. Can the deer see it? I am really now thinking the deer see everything. It is just a matter of not letting them know what you are. And that is- a threat to their survival. Thus needing to have no outline or scent.



hmmmm.... very interesting


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

dac said:


> On the subject of the sport wash has anyone taken two white tshirts looked at them under a BL and then washed one in UV killer and see what the difference was?



Dac...Don't get the UV-Killer and Sport Wash confused... 

*The sport wash's* only purpose is to give you scent free cloths.(compared to tide or bounty etc... *which are scented *and *put UV brightners into your cloths *to make colors brighter) any commercial detergent will add brighteners to your cloths.

*UV-Killer* is supposed to terminate any UV dies in your cloths...however we found in our testing that it will only dull(or make less visible) the UVs in the cloths that already have them in the fabric. 

Nothing can eliminate the UVs that are already present in your cloths except maybe dieing the whole garment(this is under investigation)


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

skyhunter said:


> WTAILHUNTER, I don't know who is correct or if we will ever know, but you have me planning a trip to Lowe's to get that damn light and check my clothes. Well done!


LOl...ok I never considered buying stock in UV lights until now... thx


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## Snood Slapper (Jul 27, 2004)

Not to be a wet blanket, but UV reflectiveness is not a "un-natural" thing. It ocurrs in nature more frequently than you might think. I would agree that it could be used by animals to protect themselves (and, hence we should give it consideration), but they see it for other reasons too. Have you ever use a blacklight on turkey or their feathers?

http://www.naturfotograf.com/UV_flowers_list.html

http://www.nationalwildlife.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?articleID=73&issueID=85


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> LOl...ok I never considered buying stock in UV lights until now... thx


Just got back from Lowes. No blue black lights; only violet.

What was the difference between the two black light colors?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Cmarti said:


> My bet is I will not poke the dragon:grinch:, and hunt in my lavender glowing outfits, and still probably see deer.


that's some funny sh%t there...I don't care who you are.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Snood Slapper said:


> Not to be a wet blanket, but UV reflectiveness is not a "un-natural" thing. It ocurrs in nature more frequently than you might think. I would agree that it could be used by animals to protect themselves (and, hence we should give it consideration), but they see it for other reasons too. Have you ever use a blacklight on turkey or their feathers?
> 
> http://www.naturfotograf.com/UV_flowers_list.html
> 
> http://www.nationalwildlife.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?articleID=73&issueID=85


That's interesting and very good info Snood Slapper it's nice to see some of the other AT members now looking for this research. I can see where these findings show small traces of UV on butterflies and on turkey feathers, however unless I see a turkey, butterfly or any other bird that is 6'3 and 250lbs in the woods I am going to assume it will freak the deer out on someone my size...and if I see a 250lb turkey I'm gonna run like hell....first and ask questions later.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

skyhunter said:


> Just got back from Lowes. No blue black lights; only violet.
> 
> What was the difference between the two black light colors?


A blue black light is supposed to be closer to the wavelength deer see in but from what I have seen you will get the same results...you will definitely be able to tell from either one if cloths contain UVs..so get a reg black light if its easier to scrap up.


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## Snood Slapper (Jul 27, 2004)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> That's interesting and very good info Snood Slapper it's nice to see some of the other AT members now looking for this research. I can see where these findings show small traces of UV on butterflies and on turkey feathers, however unless I see a turkey, butterfly or any other bird that is 6'3 and 250lbs in the woods I am going to assume it will freak the deer out on someone my size...and if I see a 250lb turkey I'm gonna run like hell....first and ask questions later.


Not really the point I was trying to make, but let's go there. Though I've not done it,found anyone that has, or found anything on the net about it, it is conceivable that deer (and other large woods animals or things) may also reflect UV. Maybe even at different stages of their hide hair (ie summer, winter, etc). Large plants or stands of plants, trees, stands of fungus, etc can as well. Perhaps a journey into the woods with a portable black light would be interesting. 

Imagine a deer running through a number of plants with reflective pollens (many pollens are so bees and insects can find them and assist in pollination) and what they might look like after they get it all over them. I've UV'd myself myself after walking through it. You might try it. By the time you get to your stand, you'd be surprised what you've picked up in the spring and fall if you have to pass through plant material on your way... Hence maybe you see my point. Total preoccupation with remaining UV clean, I don't think, needs to be a focal point, but in the back of your mind when hunting and determining how, when and where you move, place your stand, etc.

There are probably a lot more things animals can sense that we as humans cannot, and that we, as humans, have not even discovered.



WTAILHUNTER said:


> ... unless I see a turkey, butterfly or any other bird that is 6'3 and 250lbs in the woods I am going to assume it will freak the deer out on someone my size...and if I see a 250lb turkey I'm gonna run like hell....first and ask questions later.


Don't discount the fact that we don't even know how a deer perceives what it sees. It sees in this way every day. It may or may not determine that somethings size makes it a threat, or the patterning may or may not give it pause. I would think it would take all results of it's senses to make this determination. Not only UV reflectiveness and or size. It could, but it might not. _What looks like something that is glowing to you may not to a deer because that is the way it normally sees._ Are we even sure a black light filtering is even a good indication as to what a deer sees? 

This link is interesting as well: http://www.wildlifetimes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

OK so I will admit I did not read the whole dang thread .So we all know deer vision is not like human vision and uv brightners glow and deer are adapted to see movement more than any other aspect of visual trend .

So with all this take Lets here what camo is out there with no absalutely none UV problems????


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## sn1perii (Oct 22, 2007)

*Whew...*

Well...went a bought a violet blacklight at Lowe's and screwed it into the shop light fixture down in the man-cave. None of the hunting clothes "glowed" except for a cheap "leafy suit" that didn't really fit anyway and the white t-shirts that have been relegated to the rag bin. One interesting thing though is one set of cold weather gear had a "reddish" tint when I put the light really close, as did a black military back pack and a small black hip-pack. Not very bright, but noticable. Hopefully, that's not an indication of a problem...didn't look anything like the glow from the white t-shirts or leafy suit.

D


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## BOE_Hunter (Jul 29, 2005)

WTAILHUNTER
The Realtree AP did reflect more light than my Hardwoods patterns. But I think that is because it is a lighter colored pattern. As you mentioned returning my PM, it is easy to be fooled between glow and just holding the light too close to the cloth. 

When I got a bigger bulb, it was easier to see the clothes that had glow to them. The Realtree AP was easier to see but didn't have a glow.

Once again, I have NEVER used UV brightening detergents on my camo. The few pieces that may have been washed with UV brighteners (don't let your wife wash your hunting duds) were easily detected with glow.

Thanks
Barry
Boe_Hunter


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

All my realtree AP was bought at wally world made by LIBERTY and it did not glow. I had a pair of gloves glow and a face mask with an orange hue to it. 

Anyone else with the orange hue??


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## so1ocam (Aug 24, 2007)

*Uv*



Predator said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> I have a bad feeling this is going to get expensive for me. I've got a ton of money in camo clothes that I have a feeling aren't going to survive the blue black light test when I get a light to test them.ukey:



Im thinking the same thing. I don't have the BLB light, but this post has got me curious to say the least. I'm going to go buy one when I get off work today. I have several different manufactures of cammo clothing. If hunting clothing containing the UV brighteners are as common as mentioned, you can bet I own at least one or two garment that have it. Do they contain UV brighteners? I'm gonna find out soon? I know very little what deer actually see but in all my years hunting I dont recall a deer looking at me hanging up in the tree and being spooked by some blue blob. Like other have stated too many other factors to consider, scent being the most obvious along with movement etc... I'm not going to throw out the expensive clothing that I have now if I find out it has these UV brighteners either. UV will be factored in to my cammo purchases now. One thing that I am curious about is the blue reflection that clothing with UV brighteners give off seems to be more obvious in a very dark room as stated. Don't we hunt when its lighter? One other thing, how do these clothes containing UV brighteners look in the woods?


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

Maybe you could test this product as wellseeing you seem to have a good test basis and control.

http://www.rhino-labs.com/Home.asp


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## Snood Slapper (Jul 27, 2004)

so1ocam said:


> Predator said:
> 
> 
> > Oh boy.
> ...



Wow. Guys. Just relax for a minute. Ask yourself something. How many deer and other animals have you killed with your camo without knowing what you are fixing to try find out? Did it really matter then and will it matter now?


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

Snood Slapper said:


> Wow. Guys. Just relax for a minute. Ask yourself something. How many deer and other animals have you killed with your camo without knowing what you are fixing to try find out? Did it really matter then and will it matter now?


Yep, another reason to relax is that most guys that have been testing their clothes under the light *are not* finding what the thread starter found.

From what has been posted since this thread got started, the guys that panicked and just had to test their stuff right away did not find many garments that reflected UV. 

Interesting how it was stated as fact that almost all clothes that have been recently sold in the US in the Realtree and Mossy Oak patterns were made from fabric from Asia and contained these UV brighteners. The thread starter found a whole pile of clothes that he rendered useless, and then resorted to making his own, while others have not found their clothes to glow under the black light test.

Funny how these results have differed so greatly.


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## emmac13 (Jun 20, 2007)

Just go traditional like Adam and Eve. Bath in a pond and cover your birthday suit with leaves off the tree. All natural as far as scent and UV go.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

deerhunter3241 said:


> WTAILHUNTER,
> 
> I really like your post and the information seems valid enough...I would like to make a request...Is their anyway you could get a picture of your homemade non-uv clothes next to regular over the counter uv died clothes under a black light...That would be a huge seller on your point here and I think it would really make everyone take notice to this idea...!
> 
> ...



Ok deerhunter I took these pics just a few minutes ago... The shirt on the right(nat gear) looks dull in the pic compared to in person(the shirt on the right glows big time. I purchased it from bass pro shops and is natural gear camo and the only natural gear clothing that has ever glowed that I have bought) the shirt on the left is realtree hardwoods.(no UV brightners and never treated.) the shirt on the right (nat gear shirt) was washed at least 3 times in sport wash and was completely treated with UV killer twice last fall.

*Notice the shirt on the left in the first pic? that is what I am talking about disappearing or blending in with the surroundings.*

The second pic is the same two shirts with the flash on...amazing difference.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Hoyt Thompson said:


> Maybe you could test this product as wellseeing you seem to have a good test basis and control.
> 
> http://www.rhino-labs.com/Home.asp


This is very interesting, I have not heard of this company till now. I just can't believe that there UV Terminator would work any better then Atskos. I don't want to drop $15.00 bucks on it to try thou shipping is free, because I think it would be the same as throwing the money out on the highway...

If someone else gets some of this, let us know your results...but unless it dies the fabric I just can't see it working. 
*
I would like to be proven wrong!* Someone...?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

skyhunter said:


> Yep, Interesting how it was stated as fact that almost all clothes that have been recently sold in the US in the Realtree and Mossy Oak patterns were made from fabric from Asia and contained these UV brighteners. The thread starter found a whole pile of clothes that he rendered useless, and then resorted to making his own, while others have not found their clothes to glow under the black light test.
> Funny how these results have differed so greatly.



It's funny how different people view things so differently?

Ever think maybe the Lord has been looking out for some of you guys(by making it so when you purchased your cloths that you or a shipping clerk grabbed the garment without UVs) 

I look at this finding as a blessing from God and I thank God for leading my brother and I to these finding...our success has improved 4 fold since we have adhered to the laws of UV... 

Some of you guys look at this thread like it's a dragon that must be slain. If I was to stupid(stubborn) to be open minded and had that I know everything about hunting attitude I wouldn't have been able to humble myself in order to try something that has been proven. 

Our whole lives we use faith as our main form of perception...how? Well a lot of people have never been to lets say England...but you believe it's there based on what others say. When you were young driving down the road in a car, your parents or who ever said that thing with the wires on it is a telephone pole so for the rest of your life you called it just that. You probably never looked it up(researched it) anywhere you just assumed by faith that yup it's a telephone pole.

I truly feel like our testing of UVs very possibly could be the key to a lot of other peoples success here on AT. We are always posting to ask others what they think and get there opinion because we want to hear it from real hunters and not a commercialized company trying to doop us into spending more money on crap we don't need and doesn’t work. But sometimes when people actually give us what were asking for we reject it....

My 2 Cents...


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## soccer (Jul 16, 2006)

can anyone find a picture of a blue black light just so i know to pick up the right one at lowes when i go.


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## Snood Slapper (Jul 27, 2004)

soccer said:


> can anyone find a picture of a blue black light just so i know to pick up the right one at lowes when i go.


soccer, you don't need the whole fluorescent set-up, just go to the light bulb section and there are clearly marked "black light" incandescent ones that look like a regular bulb, just black and it will be with the party bulbs. Be cautious though, they get extremely hot.

WTAILHUNTER, with all due respect, I find your last response a little odd. If you're going to post "personal", unscientific test results on a public forum, you should be prepared for the possibility (probability) of debate and opposing opinions. If you're not prepared for that, well, you probably should think twice about posting it. Some here obviously found value in what you've done, and with other's it stirred up their own research and thinking. However, I hardly think your meager findings can be termed the "laws of UV" unless you've done some sort of published scientific research. 

Now, I am a person of faith, however, interjection of religion in this topic is...well... (and don't take this the wrong way) a little strange and presumptuous. As a person of faith, I actually find it a little "off putting". I wish you well in your endeavors with this however.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

soccer said:


> can anyone find a picture of a blue black light just so i know to pick up the right one at lowes when i go.


Here ya go..


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Snood Slapper said:


> WTAILHUNTER, with all due respect, I find your last response a little odd. If you're going to post *"personal", unscientific test results* on a public forum, you should be prepared for the *possibility (probability) of debate and opposing opinions.* If you're not prepared for that, well, you probably should think twice about posting it. Some here obviously found value in what you've done, and with other's it stirred up their own research and thinking. However, I hardly think your meager findings can be termed the "laws of UV" unless you've done some sort of published scientific research.
> 
> Now, I am a person of faith, however, *interjection of religion in this topic is...well... (and don't take this the wrong way) a little strange *and presumptuous. As a person of faith, I actually find it a little "off putting". I wish you well in your endeavors with this however.


I'm looking at the highlighted above...hmmmm what were you saying about personal opinion? 

By no stretch of the imagination did I say anything about religion! I'm not religious so pls don't go down that road.

I stated facts about our findings and *documented scientific studies*(please read the thread before posting) never once did I state that no one on here can disagree with my findings... 

I stated that I felt I was blessed...by these findings, so relax. once again someone who takes things personaly *because they disagree*...

I said it before and I'll say it again pls remember we all have a right to our opinions...so don't take offense to someone elses opinions!

Thank You! and have a nice day!


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## Snood Slapper (Jul 27, 2004)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> I'm looking at the highlighted above...hmmmm what were you saying about personal opinion?
> 
> By no stretch of the imagination did I say anything about religion! I'm not religious so pls don't go down that road.
> 
> ...


Doug. First, I'm very relaxed. My post was not to offend you. But I think you need to step back and read your own posts and mine again (and I have read the entire thread); perhaps neither say what you comprehend them to. Second, when you mention God, blessings and faith in a post; that has a Christian/religious tone; again, if you don't want someone to opine on something like that; perhaps you should think twice about posting it. That's really neither here nor there. Third, I agree with you that we all have our right to our opinions and why you want to attack me for mine is beyond me. Fourth, I was not relating this to the documented scientific findings of others, I'm merely stating that your's are not. If I am mistaken, and you are published somewhere, please send me your published findings and I will apologize profusely. Fifth, have at it, I'm done, it is all yours here...


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

I found out that there was a gimmick for sale that I was not aware of before, I really don't take the thread personally, but its crap.
Not to offend, but this is literally a huge waste of time, and I'm gonna shove my pencil in my eye from reading it.... Trying to make a point, having that point validated.... and still it continues on....


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

OK guys calm down there is always a "gimmick" that some believe in and some do not. I remember not ot long ago that the drop away rest was just a gimmick. I remember the "deer bleat" not being taken so well at first.

If one believes it gives them an edge then you will be hard pressed to talk them out of it and vise versa.

Everyone that is batting this back and forth is and has taken it personal.

There will always be a debate about this because onlya handful of companies even address this.
Just like TurboNocks vs. FOBS, Scentloc vs. silver thread technology, drop away vs. full containment, blind vs tree stand.

Guys we are on the same side here we are all hunters.

WTAILHUNTER some appreciate the review and others will bash it. I know you want to prove your findings to those that dispute but not all will listen nomatter how much proof or data or testing or whatever you have.

I for one give you two thumbs up by testing something before believing it actually works.
can't say that for some that immediatly jump on a product cause Blanton, Wadell, Parker, Primos says it works.


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Ever think maybe the Lord has been looking out for some of you guys(by making it so when you purchased your cloths that you or a shipping clerk grabbed the garment without UVs)


 The lord you say has got involved in making sure that guys got the right clothes. Really? Lets forget about all the sick and starving children and make sure these hunters don't get burned by the almighty UV. Can you give me a hallelujah?



> I look at this finding as a blessing from God and I thank God for leading my brother and I to these finding...our success has improved 4 fold since we have adhered to the laws of UV...


Hallelujah and a double amen!. 



> Some of you guys look at this thread like it's a dragon that must be slain.


I made a simple observation that guys that ran out to test their clothes are not finding what you have claimed to be true. 

1) you said that most hunting clothes go to China and have the UV thing going on.
2) you said you had to discard a huge pile of hunting clothes because they had the UV thing going on.
3) guys are running around like squirrels to test their clothes, but are not finding many that have the UV thing going on.
4) you said that is because "the Lord has been looking out for them".

Is this all a big joke to you? Guys are spending money and finding little.

Hunters beware: "Adhere to the laws of UV, or be forever forsaken".


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

2 words skyhunter....grow up! :wink:


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> 2 words skyhunter....grow up! :wink:


"Adhere to the laws of UV". 

That is priceless!

Attention hunters: Those who do not "adhere to the laws of UV" will be forever forsaken.

You still have not explained why guys are not finding much. You said almost all fabric goes to China and has the UV thing. 

Guys aren't finding that to be true; now are they?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> 2 words skyhunter....grow up! :wink:


I for one appreciate your posts on "the uv thing".

THANKS


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## coop (Oct 22, 2003)

Well this is starting to take an ugly turn real quick. The debating is great and necessary. The bashing, I'm sure, most of us can care less about and it's detrimental to the whole topic. This is obviously not a proven science and very possibly may never be completely proven since no one will ever know exactly how another animal can see. But debating and questioning any claim is necessary. If it wasn't....we wouldn't be here. No one would have ever taken a trip around the world for fear of falling of our "flat" planet if it wasn't for questioning things. I appreciate both sides of the debate and although I'm not running out to buy new camo any time soon I look forward to seeing what other educated guesses will be made from this as it has peaked my curiosity.


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

Hoyt Thompson said:


> OK guys calm down there is always a "gimmick" that some believe in and some do not. I remember not ot long ago that the drop away rest was just a gimmick. I remember the "deer bleat" not being taken so well at first.
> 
> If one believes it gives them an edge then you will be hard pressed to talk them out of it and vise versa.
> 
> ...


I will admit, I give respects for doing the experiment and I'd like to see more. I personally work in a field where I debunk random things...
I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE PEOPLE TAKE THE INITIATIVE THIS GUY TOOK, PLUS THE BASHING, AND FIELD TEST SOMETHING....
I would like to state for the record, that the religious undertones to this were blown dramtically out of proportion.
What's next... wanna take on the Rage, I saw some crap out this weekend?!?!??!?!


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

skyhunter said:


> "Adhere to the laws of UV".
> 
> That is priceless!
> 
> ...


This was hard to read, because you posted it in ignoramus


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## Shooting Both (Jul 15, 2004)

Couldn't find a BLB light at Lowes but found a battery operated UV light, at a pet shop. It's used for locating pet urine. What I found was some of my clothes did glow, some didn't. Some also had a redish rust color? My bow was good but not my arrows (logo). This season I'll stay away from the glowing clothes. If I notice a positive difference in getting spotted, I'll use the glowing clothes for ice fishing or other outdoor activities. Nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

ok - quit attacking each other - let's just talk about the subject matter and observations.

So I got a blacklight and spent like an hour in my basement last night trying to make sense out of this and, to be honest, didn't get very far.

I guess I'm not real clear on what the "glow" is supposed to look like. I saw no "orange" glow of any kind other than on my couple of blaze orange vests which light up like crazy.

All of my camo showed up as sort of a florescent purple where there were lighter shades of cloth in the patterrn. A few of the really light ls t-shirts had almost a white looks to the really light colors. But for the most part everything sort of glowed purple. But I don't know that this means there's UV brighteners in them. I do have some wool camo and while it looks purple under the light as well it doesn't really glow much - definately looks more dull than everything else but that may be more due to the nature of the wool fabric than the lack of UV brighteners.

But if this purple glow is from UV brighteners then I say this whole thing is a waste of time. I say that because literally everything looked about the same under the black light. And I've got a ton of clothes including stuff from Realtree, Advantage, Mossy Oak, Predator, ASAT, Ghost Camo, Sitka (mothwing), Cabela's outfitter camo etc. etc. and in cotton, fleece and other synthetics (i.e. Sitka).

So....my conculsions are that either essentially EVERYTHING has UV or NONE of it has UV. And regardless of which I might conclude, they both would compel me to do absolutely nothing. This camo has all worked very well for me in the past and I've not gotten picked off by deer like I'm some sort of lightbulb in the tree. In fact I've rarely gotten picked off. If everything's (or nearly everything) has it then I can't avoid it anyway. And if none of my stuff has it then it doesn't matter anyway.

The other point I'd make is that there's absolutely no way to identify the "glow" I noticed (if that's what you want to call it) when there is any other light source present. It had to be basically completely dark in my basement to see it. So to think that I could go to Cabelas (for instance) with my portable blacklight and actually identify whether there were UV brightners in clothing is crazy. Isn't going to happen (and trust me, if I thought it would do any good I wouldn't hesitate going in with my light and shining it on everything).

So, I don't know what to think now. I was intriqued by this at first but now after going out and buying a blacklight and coming to no conclusive evidence about anything I'm not sure it was a good use of my money or time. I really thought I'd find that a few of my camo clothes would "shine" and the others wouldn't and I know what I had to replace (or at least stay away from). So much for that.

What am I missing?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Try some black clothes, they are supposed to not have any uv brightenars in them. Also some older surplus camo. That should give you an idea of what clothes w/o uv brighteners in them.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Predator said:


> ok - *All of my camo showed up as sort of a florescent purple *where there were lighter shades of cloth in the patterrn. But I don't know that this means there's UV brighteners in them. I do have some wool camo and while it looks purple under the light as well it doesn't really glow much - definately looks more dull than everything else but that may be more due to the nature of the wool fabric than the lack of UV brighteners.
> 
> And I've got a ton of clothes including stuff from Realtree, Advantage, Mossy Oak, Predator, ASAT, Ghost Camo, Sitka (mothwing), Cabela's outfitter camo etc. etc. and in cotton, fleece and other synthetics (i.e. Sitka).
> 
> What am I missing?


Yes Predator that bluish-purple means it contains UV, but make sure the light is not to close.(if your holding it only a few inches away from the garment it will light the same color as the bulb) Make sure the light is at least 5 feet from your cloths. Did you see the pics i posted of two of my shirts?(top of pg 4) one with and one without UV it will be similar to that. and the light was about 6 or 7 feet from the shirts. if the room is totally dark everything with Brighteners in it will glow from paper to the tags on a shirt and everything that does not will kind of disappear in the room.


You can PM me if you have more questions...

Thx


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

zap said:


> Try some black clothes, they are supposed to not have any uv brightenars in them. Also some older surplus camo. That should give you an idea of what clothes w/o uv brighteners in them.



True..True...this is good for a comparison..


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Well black doesn't reflect light (essentially) so I wouldn't expect it to light up. But I don't care about black as it's worthless for hunting. I'd much rather have a light open patterned camo filled with UV brighteners than wear all black. I can assure you I'd get busted FAR more with the black on than the UV.

That aside - based on your latest feedback I've concluded that essentially every decent camo option out there has UV brighteners in it - so I guess I learn to live with it.

Point is, this is largely meaningless unless there are REAL options for good high tech hunting clothing that doesn't have UV brighteners in them.

I don't want some cheap cotton army surplus crap just because it doesn't have UV brighteners in it. Heck, I try to avoid cotton other than for local early season hunts. Almost everything I buy now is synthetic. I backpack hunt in the mountains. Cotton kills and is worthless. I'm on not a big fan of wool as it's too heavy, a pain to care for and retain scent too readily.

I mean even my high tech and high priced Sitka gear is made in China and apparently has UV brighteners in it.

So.....if you, or someone, wants to actually provide any REAL value in this space you could start by providing a running list of VERY SPECIFIC high quality high tech hunting clothing that has been proven not to have UV brighteners (if there even is such a thing). If these clothes do exist I would likely buy them in future purchases. If not, this whole topic is a moot point.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Ok - so this thing continues to intrigue me a bit and I did a little more testing tonight. Shining the light all over my basement I realized that everything basically glows purple unless it is jet black or white (or specifically florescent - I'll get to that in a bit). I mean EVERYTHING. Now, some things seem to glow a little more purple but everything turns purple.

While most of my camo was what I'd call a dark, dull purple glow (kind of like in the picture above), a couple of things lit up like a white t-shirt does under a black light. An example was a pair of cotton Predator grey pants. The light grey part of those pants glowed a pretty bright almost white color. Now, I had one of the newer windstopper Predator fleece jackets next to it. In normal light the lighter shades looked pretty close in tone (the cotton was just a smidge lighter). But under the blacklight the fleece just glowed the darker purple on the light spots whereas the cotton was like white.

So then I got to wondering. If, as mentioned above, the simple purple glow (rather than a white glow) actually means there is UV brighteners in the clothes then I needed a test case to compare to. So I went outside and picked two different white flowers and brought them down to the basement. Everything else that's white down there lights up like a lightbulb so I wondered what these flowers would do since I knew for a fact that they had no UV brighteners added to them. So I put them next to my camo under the blacklight to see what would happen. They did not light up like all the other white stuff or the light tone in the Predator grey cotton. But they absolutely did glow purple just like most of the rest of my camo (and just about everything else down there). Keep in mind that almost all of the camo I have (and that we buy) is made in China or overseas. Ironically, one of the few pieces of clothing I can verify was made in the US is an ASAT jacket from Day One Camo and while it certainly looks different - it doesn't really glow purple but it is way more visible (in other words it doesn't disappear under the black light as suggested) with the tan portions looking quite bright (not as much as the light portions of the Predator cotton though - ironically, I should point out that this same Predator cotton camo has probably been the most effective camo in the field in terms of deer not noticing me or, even if I move and they look up at me, they stare right through me - as it blends so well with the skyline in a treestand after leafdrop - and then they go back to what they were doing - if they saw this camo the way I see it under blacklight they run away so fast it would be silly).

So here's the other thing I discovered. My fletching, nocks, wraps and bowstring all light up VERY brightly. That's because they are all florescent (well, 1/2 my bowstring is and that's the 1/2 that lights up). I like the florescent green as I think it looks cool on the bowstring (I have regular red on the other half and it doesn't light up). And I've used florescent nocks and vanes for years. Now, trust me, if deer saw this stuff the way we do under black light I would get picked off every time I'm in a tree without question. I might as well have a huge strobe light up there with me. My quiver full of arrows would light up so brightly no deer could possibly miss it and my string would just add to the light show. But the fact is....this never happens. I almost never get picked off unless I move in a very careless fashion.

So what have I concluded? First, that most camo doesn't have enough UV brighteners to make any difference to deer (compare well to flowers without UV brighteners in them). Second, I don't believe for a second that deer see things the way we see them under black light so, at the end of the day, I'm not sure there is anything to be worried about (although it was certainly an interesting topic to read about and test).


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## RNO (Jan 13, 2007)

*The don't s *
My *DayOne* Camo in Predator Green Saddle cloth and my Fleece Predator Fall Gray do not show any UV other than the _inside_ of the button hole stitch (odd?) and the lint  they have collected.

My *Carhart* RealTree Hardwoods does not show UV. 
None of my various hats show UV, whats up with this? 
My pack does not show UV. 

My Cabela's Predator Brown Deception does show UV.
My Turkey vest in APG does show UV in limited areas (the white)

Get some *Dayone* Camouflage or *Carhart* and you are good to go! My.02

Atsko must love you WTAILHUNTER for the recent push on light sales.


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## nater3 (Jul 3, 2005)

Alright, my turn.
I tested my clothes tonight. My new Scentblocker and scent lok clothes did not glow. My whitewater camo beanie didn't glow. None of my pairs of gloves glowed. My Artctic Shield boot covers didn't glow. 
Now, 
All of my long sleeve warm weather shirts glowed very brightly. My Cabelas Silent Weave pants and bibs glowed brightly. My Walls brand cold weather bibs and jacket only glowed brightly in the light areas of the pattern. 
Now here is the kicker for me. I have been using arm and hammer detergent for the past year without any scent. I have always been under the impression that detergents without scent or dyes are fine. My final question is that if this detergent has possibly caused my clothes to glow, is it permanant or will it fade if I start using some of the hunting detergents?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

RNO said:


> *The don't s *
> My *DayOne* Camo in Predator Green Saddle cloth and my Fleece Predator Fall Gray do not show any UV other than the _inside_ of the button hole stitch (odd?) and the lint  they have collected.
> 
> My *Carhart* RealTree Hardwoods does not show UV.
> ...


It really is hit or miss with camo. You can have 3 of the same suits and two will glow and one will not or vise versa. I can't explain it more then what i was told by a manufacturer when he said a lot of the camo is made here in the states but is then shipped to china for UV treatment to enhance the life of the cloths and to limit fading. Obviously some of it escapes the UV process. I got lucky on my back pack, gloves, face mask and a couple shirts and pants...my cloths were about 50/50 I had to recover my tree stand seats on both of my lone wolf stands as well. I believe it makes a difference so I threw the ones that glowed in a pile. My brothers son now wears his camo the glowed for paintball, so there not completley useless...lol 

I had a hat that only 2 panels on it glowed the rest was dead in the light...go figure...most of the hat was made form a non UV roll and when they ran out got a roll with UVs.

I have checked a few peoples cloths that are successful on a regular basis and all there cloths were UV free...I can't explain it other then a lot of there stuff is mossy oak and for guys that have been around for a while might remember that all of the camo that mossy oak used to sell had a tag that said this garment contains no UV brighteners... then they got away from it? have no idea why..Maybe if there is someone on the forum that works for or used to work for mossy oak could explain that?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

nater3 said:


> Alright, my turn.
> I tested my clothes tonight. My new Scentblocker and scent lok clothes did not glow. My whitewater camo beanie didn't glow. None of my pairs of gloves glowed. My Artctic Shield boot covers didn't glow.
> Now,
> All of my long sleeve warm weather shirts glowed very brightly. My Cabelas Silent Weave pants and bibs glowed brightly. My Walls brand cold weather bibs and jacket only glowed brightly in the light areas of the pattern.
> Now here is the kicker for me. I have been using arm and hammer detergent for the past year without any scent. I have always been under the impression that detergents without scent or dyes are fine. My final question is that if this detergent has possibly caused my clothes to glow, is it permanant or will it fade if I start using some of the hunting detergents?


I'm not sure but because it's not a die I'm guessing it may fade or eventually wash out..a die can't do that so yours may. 


What camo patterns are your new Scentblocker and scent lok clothes? I just went and got 2 new hats to test them one is mossy oak tree stand and the other real tree AP the tree stand camo is dead in the light and the AP gives a very faint glow but in my opinion wearable to hunt in...all I can say is I hope I start getting proved wrong more often because that means these camo companys may be getting away from UV treated cloths again...


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## Sep/timber/heat (Dec 8, 2007)

Predator camo glowing?


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## Sep/timber/heat (Dec 8, 2007)

Has anyone walked around at night to see what else glows in the dark:darkbeer:


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## schling_us (Aug 24, 2006)

For you guys with a double bull brand chair, put the light to it once carefull its brighter than your computer screen. Good thing the blind doesn't glow at all compared to the chair.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Sep/timber/heat said:


> Has anyone walked around at night to see what else glows in the dark:darkbeer:


I'm actually working on doing this, just to see the results. If I can do it with my booster pack I will film it and post the results and video clip.


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## Sep/timber/heat (Dec 8, 2007)

I just got done walking around with my light and found nothing on the property that is bright. Aspen bark reflects but not near the intensity of the shirt and socks that I have on  Maybe something in your part of the country will shine like the moon. I would like to know. Thanks for the heads up.


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## elecshoc (Dec 7, 2006)

Sep/timber/heat said:


> Has anyone walked around at night to see what else glows in the dark:darkbeer:


down here scorpions will glow under a UV...









just a pic I found on the net...


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

Sep/timber/heat said:


> Predator camo glowing?


nope no glow there


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

> Predator camo glowing? nope no glow there



Keep in mind a few things just because one garment of predator camo does not glow doesn't mean another wont...I wish but when there making cloths and they run out of one roll they switch to another and the one they switch to could have been UV treated.

I've had a shirt that one sleeve glowed the rest was non reflective..and I mentioned before two panels on a hat...:dontknow:

Also even if some turkeys have a little UV on there feathers it's a very small amount, like butterflys(only out during bright light hours) and deer are aware of any little bit of UV in nature, but a 250lbs guy like me...well I can see why that would spook a deer (especially a mature one)....:set1_thinking:


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## Cmarti (Oct 15, 2004)

Do the scent sprays, (including homemade) that include baking soda, light up our clothes?


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## nater3 (Jul 3, 2005)

The scentblocker coat is a Dream Season fleece jacket. The Scent Lok is a pair of Microtex pants from Cabelas. Both are Realtree AP camo. I am planning on picking up a Scent Lok Fullseason jacket this weekend. Has anyone tried this jacket in Ap yet?


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## dt5150 (Oct 17, 2007)

i just recently thought of starting a thread asking these questions about uv, so i'm very glad i found this one!

i too plan on picking up a black light to see what my hunting clothes do. my curiosity is making me. 

where in nh ar ya wtailhunter? i'm in laconia.


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## ftshooter (Jul 26, 2003)

humm....I am still testing my camo ...


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## bobbal (Sep 15, 2004)

I ordered a light. Is there a way of testing garments in the store, or do you need to be in a dark room


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

ftshooter said:


> humm....I am still testing my camo ...


And your results are? :drummer:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

bobbal said:


> I ordered a light. Is there a way of testing garments in the store, or do you need to be in a dark room


It hard to do I try to find a dark corner or i ask them if they have a small closet and explain why a lot of them will find a way for you to test something. at least if they want me to buy it.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Guys I need some help getting my hands on an article I was told was in Petersen's Hunting Mag...

I happened across this guy who owns a hunting store and we ended up talking about UV in cloths.. He said he just read an article that was talking about how late 07, early 08 camo companys changing the way they were making there camo. He said something to the effect that camo companys were using a white base layer(containing UVs) that they layed the outter camo pattern on and it said that late 07, early 08 they started using a dark base layer that they bonded the camo pattern too so as to either eliminate or lessen the glow given off. 

I would really love to read this article...I have Nov07, Dec07 and June & July 08 editions and it is not in those.. *Does anyone have the Jan - May issues of Petersen's Hunting Mag?* if so could you check for that UV article and let me know which issue it is?

I've searched online for it and can not find anything..He said he was almost certain it was Petersen's Hunting Mag he read it in..


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## ftshooter (Jul 26, 2003)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> And your results are? :drummer:


Well, if you remember I ask you if a re-die of camo could work ...and what I found is yes it can help to some degree ..but, cotton and then they are pretty dull looking .however, that could be ok I think...

The re die work best with a pair of older Predator fall gray pants these are what they called cotton twill ..

Next, were the older army camo forest green that are cotton not the rip-stop kind that has more nylon 

I took some small pump spray bottles and put tan, green, brown in them and just went over the pattern of the army camo ..and let dry over night then washed with sports wash and dried ..this worked pretty good ..

Some of my stuff glowed like crazy under the light and none of this would even take die or at least it did not change it ..

What I don't know ..is what can be called acceptable ...I have a few thing that seem to be UV dead ..and others with maybe just a very small amount of UV light being reflected ....I had a lot the shows a violet color? what about this? 



I would think most of this would depend on where you hunt and what time of the day it is at any given time ...If a deer has no UV filters then you camo may match the spots of sun light or moon light What do you think ??

White Tail 

Also, I found you can just add a Tan or Brown die to your wash cycle and it will help 


Thanks ,Cody


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## ftshooter (Jul 26, 2003)

Another Question is ...What effect does scent killer sprays have on camo ??


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

hey cody sweet name


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

ftshooter said:


> Well, if you remember I ask you if a re-die of camo could work ...and what I found is yes it can help to some degree ..but, cotton and then they are pretty dull looking .however, that could be ok I think...
> 
> The re die work best with a pair of older Predator fall gray pants these are what they called cotton twill ..
> 
> ...


That's good info Cody I guess more testing would have to be done with the dies to make a conclusion. When I sprayed one of my cotton shirts in the dark room(with the UV-Killer) with only the blb light on and it looks like it as actually a die. Unfortunately you had the same results as I did when you applied a die, it works best on cotton to dull it but does not eliminate it. That would make sense because a polyester/nylon type fabrics can not absorb the die...

As far as the violet color that is UV as well and if it's exceptable all depends on you, personaly I don't take the chance with anything that isn't dead in the blb.

*You can use the hunters Specialty laundry detergent as well, that or the sport wash, they do the same thing and niether contains UV brighteners*.




> Another Question is ...What effect does scent killer sprays have on camo ??


 I don't think it has any effect other then to help cover or eliminate human odor. I use it and it has never had an effect as far as the UV if that's what you mean.


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## Hoyt Thompson (May 7, 2007)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Guys I need some help getting my hands on an article I was told was in Petersen's Hunting Mag...
> 
> I happened across this guy who owns a hunting store and we ended up talking about UV in cloths.. He said he just read an article that was talking about how late 07, early 08 camo companys changing the way they were making there camo. He said something to the effect that camo companys were using a white base layer(containing UVs) that they layed the outter camo pattern on and it said that late 07, early 08 they started using a dark base layer that they bonded the camo pattern too so as to either eliminate or lessen the glow given off.
> 
> ...


another bump to find these articles.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

I just posted this in another thread about these but thought I would post it here for those that have not seen the other thread...

Tony Peterson the Associate Editor of Petersen’s Bowhunting Magazine emailed me and said he thinks the article is *“More Than Meets Our Eye”* by Bob Humphrey. *He said this piece was actually there **Jan/Feb 2008 Whitetails Department piece*.....let me know if you find it in one of these issues..thx again for taking the time.


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## Mithremakor (Jul 23, 2008)

I see one problem with your sight analysis. You mentioned green receptors but they don't exist. People have three receptors-blue, yellow and red. Deer have two-blue and yellow. Green is a combination of blue and yellow and so deer will see green. UV brighteners, then, should just shift the green more toward blue and intensify the color a bit. No 'blue ghost' just a bit easier to spot when moving than UV free stuff.


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## ftshooter (Jul 26, 2003)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Have you found realtree AP that does not glow? When I was at cabela's thou I didn't have access to a dark room it seemed to me that everything I tested in the new AP lit up under the UV light. IMO the new AP is one of the best break-up patterns out there right now and would be a huge benefit for hunters hunting in hardwoods to get our hands on some UV free AP...




All of my Ap glowed .......


White tail what about leafy suits ? Have you tested any of them ...Thanks


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## Anynamewilldo (Jan 3, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Nope! they just weren't treated with UV brightners. A lot of carthart cloths are UV free as well and any black cloths.


So your saying it would be better to hunt in my carhart work clothes then in most camo out there? And Im not trying to be sarcastic if it sounded that way Im going to pick up a light this week and check my stuff out.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

ftshooter said:


> All of my Ap glowed .......
> White tail what about leafy suits ? Have you tested any of them ...Thanks


I have a cabelas leafy wear suit in realtree hardwoods and the leafy part itself is UV free but the under layer glows very brightly so I don't wear it any more. It is the only one I have tested.





Anynamewilldo said:


> So your saying it would be better to hunt in my carhart work clothes then in most camo out there? And Im not trying to be sarcastic if it sounded that way Im going to pick up a light this week and check my stuff out.


In my opinion yes some carhart olive drab pants even thou a solid color would be far better then anything that glows. I will take a pic of a pair of my hunting pants I had my brother sew up for me and post them. I believe having cloths that offer good break up and UV free are the best we can do fooling a whitetails eyes with out question...again in my opinion.


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## tnts79 (Sep 21, 2007)

Guess I will have to check out my scentblocker suits, fingers crossed...:embara: If I check them under a black light would that be good enough? Guess I dont really see that much of a difference between the black lights and BLB's


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## Animaltracker (Apr 4, 2008)

*UV Study*

For all of you who have taken an interest in this topic, here is a link to an article published by the Quality Deer Management Association on deer vision and UV. 

It can answer a lot of questions posted on this thread.

http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=48


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

I wanted to post a pic of one of my pair of pants..someone asked what they look like so here is a pic. Totally UV free, both are BDU pants... I just took the stiches out of the seams of each and my brother sewed them back together and waalaa I have two pair for hunting...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Animaltracker said:


> For all of you who have taken an interest in this topic, here is a link to an article published by the Quality Deer Management Association on deer vision and UV.
> 
> It can answer a lot of questions posted on this thread.
> 
> http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=48



Good article it's basically all the same info from the previous studys...thx for finding it for people to read.


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## ftshooter (Jul 26, 2003)

Just to let you guys know ...I found what seems to be a good small battery power black light at wallmart ...It is a Master Vision Cap light ...they have black , green ,red ...about 10.00 with batterys ...my works good so maybe a guy can check camo before buying ..best of luck to all of you ..


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## ftshooter (Jul 26, 2003)

Any one having any luck at find uv free camo in the stores ..if so what brand ..? thanks


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## Wbuffetjr1 (Oct 3, 2006)

Anyone been able to test any Sitka gear? Wonder if it is UV free . . . .


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## sq246 (Nov 11, 2002)

*Uv*

Dang it! WTailhunter I had pretty much forgotten all this UV problem til ya brought it up again. Got out the old black light and checked. Typical results.

For those who asked...most all Military spec stuff is totally UV free (use it to check your other stuff next to). Mossy Oak seems to be making alot of suff w/out UV problems still (but check first).

That orangish glow some of you are seeing is usually from various new synthetic blends. Since it's slightly orange/red it won't be in the viewable spectrum of whitetails.

Small portable UV lights are around. If all else fails check Police lab supply cats...we use them for locating trace evidence (esp. on sheets:zip.

SQ


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## twisted1600 (Feb 23, 2007)

I didn't read the whole thread....
I'm hoping we all know....depending on the wavelength of the UV,(AKA blacklight)....that if not carefull,blindness or at the least burned corneas may result from looking at certain unfiltered "black light".

Well if you didn't.....now you do!


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## twisted1600 (Feb 23, 2007)

This would explain why my lucks gone to crap since I started shopping at Walmart for camo gear!!!


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## FiveOarcher (Sep 21, 2006)

*sitka gear*

has anyone tested the Sitka gear yet?? I am curious also.


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## BrushSniper (Jan 2, 2006)

I tested my 90% jacket and its UV free...


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## BrushSniper (Jan 2, 2006)

The ASAT 3-D leafy suit and all my Rivers West are UV free as well.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

FiveOarcher said:


> has anyone tested the Sitka gear yet?? I am curious also.


I believe someone posted in this thread somewhere that they tested there sitka and it had UV but that does not mean all sitka will glow...you have to test each garment you want to buy. Every maker of camo will be the same, some will have UV and some will not..

I tested two game hide suits in the store about a week ago 2 different suits both were gamehide both were real tree AP, one glowed the other didn't..


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

sq246 said:


> Mossy Oak seems to be making alot of suff w/out UV problems still (but check first).



Yeah remember mossy oak used to put a lable on all there cloths that said this garment contains no UV brighteners! I would really like to know why they stopped producing all there cloths UV free..

I sent an email to realtree and mossyoak about UV brighteners and neither has returned my email..


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## Wbuffetjr1 (Oct 3, 2006)

I sent an email to Sitka and they assured me that their camo has no UV in the dye at all. It will be interesting to see. I am going to test it as soon as I get it and send it right back to Cabelas if it glows


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## sq246 (Nov 11, 2002)

*uv stuff*

What's really frustrating is that on any given item some panels reflect and others do not; a real pain in the keister! Makes buying over the net or from catalogs a crap shoot. Only Mil spec clothing is totally UV free.

Stay tuned.


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

> This would explain why my lucks gone to crap since I started shopping at Walmart for camo gear!!!


You know....I just had a break-through. I used to bow hunt religiously a few years ago, and I ALWAYS saw deer when I would go out. Well I am now obsessed with it again and started back up last year, hunting the same spots. Well I only saw one buck (the 10pt I killed) but he was in some thick stuff and never looked up or even close to where I was, I shot him straight down from the treestand. And I only saw two other deer last year, two does when it was too dark to shoot and they were way behind me. 
Point being I couldn't think of anything I had changed....still doing all my scent free stuff, playing the wind, deer sign everywhere, etc BUT I just realized I bought new camo from Wal-Mart. So I compared the labels, new camo - made in China, old camo (probably 10yrs old) made in USA!
Hmmmmmmm.................. Guess I should check them with a blb to be sure but it does make sense to me....glad I read this post!
I'm going today to get some old military stuff...heck with anything else.


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## claxtonkiller (Aug 16, 2004)

*Would this camo be ok*

Ok guys,
I have used this stuff in the past and I do believe that deer see the UV brightners in some cloth. Who has not had a deer look up in a tree and spot us dead to rights, while we are camo'd up head to toe and dead still and down wind and ll the other stuff. I think it's llike scent control, every little we can do helps.

I found this sight and it lists that the cloth is made in america and looks to meet your criteria..

http://www.gr8gear.com/catalog/Apparel/Pants-Overalls/Military-Military-Style-Pants/

What do you guys think?


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## Deadfall (Apr 9, 2008)

*Predator Camo*

I purchased some Predator spring green camo from Ebay and received them today. The camp shirt under the black light did not glow however the pants glowed like crazy. My g/f was shocked at the difference between the two. The interesting point here is that my findings go along with some of the others on here....the shirt (no glow) was made in the U.S.A, the pants (glowed) were made in the Philippines.

I purchased some Under Armor heat gear from Cabelas last weekend and they also glow under the light.....made in Mexico

Has anyone found any product that effectively reduces/kills the UV glow on clothes that contain the brighteners?

-Deadfall


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

claxtonkiller said:


> Ok guys,
> I have used this stuff in the past and I do believe that deer see the UV brightners in some cloth. Who has not had a deer look up in a tree and spot us dead to rights, while we are camo'd up head to toe and dead still and down wind and ll the other stuff. I think it's llike scent control, every little we can do helps.
> 
> I found this sight and it lists that the cloth is made in america and looks to meet your criteria..
> ...


Remember they make replicated military camo! and some of it will glow I found some at dicks sporting goods..it usually has like a graph pattern on the cloths(it's the fabric they printed the camo pattern on that has the lines in it, it's hard to explain I hope this makes sense) and is much thinner then good military camo. there is no one camo company that manufactures all UV free cloths...they all must be tested with BLB light...I have had one sleeve on a shirt glow and 2 panels on a hat that glowed. you just never know..




> Has anyone found any product that effectively reduces/kills the UV glow on clothes that contain the brighteners?


The UV killer by Atsko will help to dim UV on cotton cloths only, but it does not stay dull(results are from our personal test) If you scroll thru the thread you will see a shirt pic(around page 2 I think)I posted that is 100% cotton and was treated with UV killer by atsko and washed at least 3 times in sport wash before treated with UV killer...it will blind you in the room with the BLB light...


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## Muy Grande (Aug 11, 2005)

Emailed Jeff at Gray Wolf Woolens. No UV brighteners in the gear from there. Have an email out to Gary at Day One as well. Good report from him and I'm going to quit worrying what little I did about this.


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## glocksaveslives (Apr 27, 2008)

I emailed Whitewater Strategic Hunting Apparel they said that they do not have UV brighteners in their Realtree Pro camo clothing. 
http://whitewateroutdoors.com/osc/catalog.php?cPath=195_221


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

glocksaveslives said:


> I emailed Whitewater Strategic Hunting Apparel they said that they do not have UV brighteners in their Realtree Pro camo clothing.
> http://whitewateroutdoors.com/osc/catalog.php?cPath=195_221


That's great guys! I hope everyone keeps posting about the camo they find with no UVs form various company's it will help a lot of people.


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## Deadfall (Apr 9, 2008)

Muy Grande said:


> Emailed Jeff at Gray Wolf Woolens. No UV brighteners in the gear from there. Have an email out to Gary at Day One as well. Good report from him and I'm going to quit worrying what little I did about this.


Unfortunately this information is not true in my experience. I have both a wolfskin and a wool hat I bought from Gray Wolf Woolens and they both glow a purple color when under the blb. I compared to military surplus wool pants (no glow) and the difference was night and day.


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

ttt


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

what about backpacks? Anyone find any without uv?


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## 41mag (May 7, 2008)

In the areas we hunt there is quite a bit of pressure. With this the deer get educated early and constantly learn what is and isn't right with their surroundings. 

For the past 8 or so years I have been using some camo fatugies I purchased from a small mom and pop shop up close to our family farm. I like them because the blended in so well with the river bottom underbrush that I could put the sneak on deer and get up close with out being detected. Last year while wearing the same clothes, I was busted on several occaisions, both morning and evening, in different areas, by deer which should not have detected my presence. They were up wind, I was mostly conceled in underbrush off to the side of their approach, but they came out into the small open area and stopped only to look directly at me. This was while I was sitting there motionless. 

This got me to wondering and curious so I purchased a small UV light and checked out everything I had on. The pants and shirt I had been wearing hardly showed up at all under the light even being faded out somewhat, however the hat, facemask, and gloves I wore, glowed like the shirt shown in the above pic. After changing out the items, again I sat in these same areas and went undetected by the deer. 

Now some can say what they want, about their areas and their success. I have had success as well using stuff which might or might not have shown up under the light. I do know however, that based upon the several instances that ne and my firends both shared in various different areas that we now check everything. I have had deer come down a trail with me in a 15" stand motionless, and have them stop and look straight up at me as if to say, yep I see ya. I have also had them pick me out of a shady background with the sun in their eyes as well. I don't know for sure either way, but I do know if it glows, it goes. I won't be in the woods with it on any more.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

> That's good stuff 41mag it's all about what makes us more confident and our personal experiences(with deer) in the woods....


*On another note:* I have read some post lately about people using *"all Free and Clear laundry detergent"* because it's perfume free and dye free.... I tested this in the BLB light and it glows like a neon white paper. All thou it is relatively odor free, if you read the ingredients it says it contains a brightening agent(UV Brighteners) So without a doubt you *do not *want wash your cloths in "all free and clear" just an FYI...


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## Beehaw (Sep 7, 2006)

Just to help everybody out, I will be glad to dispose of your defective camo. This way when you replace it, your wife won't notice that you have twice as much.


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## Wbuffetjr1 (Oct 3, 2006)

*2008 Sitka!!*

Still waiting for someone test test the '08 stuff. According to Sitka they use no UV in their dyes!


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Beehaw said:


> Just to help everybody out, I will be glad to dispose of your defective camo. This way when you replace it, your wife won't notice that you have twice as much.


Right!... my brothers son uses it for paintball! So UV brightened cloths although blinding to the deer can still serve a purpose..lol




> Wbuffetjr1... Still waiting for someone test test the '08 stuff. According to Sitka they use no UV in their dyes!


You can not test one garment to decide that a particular camo pattern does not have UV...some will some wont. Each article of clothing has to be tested itself.


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## pyvirgin (Jan 11, 2006)

are grey wolf woolen clothes like the wolfskin and wool FREE OF UV???????

the man who started this thread,thanks for the heads up

be nice to see a list of uv free clothes to buy that will give a guarentee

to help me buy in the future


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## Anchor Sight (Oct 17, 2005)

*camo*

Do spray paints have UV's? I sprayed the legs of my carharts with some black paint and would consider spraying my DBB also and adding some break up cloth to it.


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## Deadfall (Apr 9, 2008)

pyvirgin said:


> are grey wolf woolen clothes like the wolfskin and wool FREE OF UV???????


Unfortunately the two articles I have, one wolfskin and one wool, glow under the light. As was stated above, each article needs to be tested rather than lumping a group under has UV or does not have UV. I bought a cheap black light flashlight from Ebay and check all the clothes I buy before I take the tags off.


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## Wbuffetjr1 (Oct 3, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> You can not test one garment to decide that a particular camo pattern does not have UV...some will some wont. Each article of clothing has to be tested itself.


I just got off of the phone with Sitka. They said the use absolutely NO uv dyes in their clothes. I said come on man and he said none. Then he said if it glowed to call him back and give him an earfull. So we shall see . . . .


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## jdduffy (Sep 19, 2006)

when I can find a deer that can talk,and I can ask him what he's looking at.that's when I'll beleive all this crap !!!!!!!!


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## Deadfall (Apr 9, 2008)

jdduffy said:


> when I can find a deer that can talk,and I can ask him what he's looking at.that's when I'll beleive all this crap !!!!!!!!


Do you believe in hunting the wind and staying quiet? With that kind of thinking you would need to ask him what he is smelling and hearing as well.

I don't know if I buy into the UV thing 100% but this thread has provided some valuable info for many people. If simply doing a little more shopping to find clothes (when in the market for new clothes) without the UV brighteners in them can improve my odds in the field I am all for it. I am certain it won't cost me any more money and won't hurt my chances of seeing more game.


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## ftshooter (Jul 26, 2003)

tttlll77 said:


> Do spray paints have UV's? I sprayed the legs of my carharts with some black paint and would consider spraying my DBB also and adding some break up cloth to it.



just don't use white ..I spray paint my tree stands and they don't glow under my black light..


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

ftshooter said:


> just don't use white ..I spray paint my tree stands and they don't glow under my black light..



Exactly! white paint will almost always have brighteners in it....all paints can have brighteners added to it, so you have to be careful when buying them.


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## Beretta1984 (Sep 12, 2006)

aww hamburgers! they want 7 dollars just to ship the light.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Beretta1984 said:


> aww hamburgers! they want 7 dollars just to ship the light.



Atsko? those cheap sons of !#$&%* go to lowes and buy there 18" light


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

Does anyone know where I can find a UV free tight fitting face mask? All of the ones I see in the stores says "made in China"


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> *On another note:* I have read some post lately about people using *"all Free and Clear laundry detergent"* because it's perfume free and dye free.... I tested this in the BLB light and it glows like a neon white paper. All thou it is relatively odor free, if you read the ingredients it says it contains a brightening agent(UV Brighteners) So without a doubt you *do not *want wash your cloths in "all free and clear" just an FYI...


Ok I'm not saying that the laundry detergent does not glow under your light or that other camo does not glow under your light. I also am not saying that deer do not see in UV. They do. But how do you know how much "glow " the deer see's. Plus I talked to John Eberhard. He has killed more BIG bucks in Michigan one of the hardest states to kill big bucks in then anyone. He uses this "free and Clear detergent" from the stores and it serves him just fine.

Come on people, these test prove one thing and one thing only and that is if you put a black light up to some camo it glows. Deer are not walking around with black lights. You can not say how it looks to a deer.

Another thing is that other things in a deers world glow. So it is not so strange for them to see something glowing. 

How many mature big bucks have you killed? John has killed this many (see pic below) with his uv full detergent and his uv full camo. Until your wall or anyone that is promoting UV free camo and UV killer looks better then his I'll side with John. This is just one more thing to get hyped up about. Pleanty off guys are killing nice bucks every year with out uv less camo.








Just my 2.
GW


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

No where in this thread did it say Mr great white that you had to go UV free, so by all means UV it up...:wink: maybe you should worry about your wall not John Eberhards... if your not in the woods with him I'm sure you don't know all of what he is doing regarding UV or anything else for that matter.


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> No where in this thread did it say Mr great white that you had to go UV free, so by all means UV it up...:wink: maybe you should worry about your wall not John Eberhards... if your not in the woods with him I'm sure you don't know all of what he is doing regarding UV or anything else for that matter.


Your right I don't know what all John is doing about UV, but I know what he said. He uses the detergent that you were saying "glows" and he uses a Badlands pack that is made out of the USA, and according to you it most likely glows. 

Instead of taking personal shots at me prove me wrong. I’m just saying what are you trying to prove? Is it that some camo glows under a black light? You have done that and thank you for that hard work. Or is it that deer see the same camo glowing like it does under the black light? If it is you have shown nothing to prove your point. And even if they do, does it bother them? You have not proved that either.

I’m just saying before we all start going out and buying black lights and throwing away our camo we need to think about what this test prove. I’m not putting you down, I’m just asking questions. If you prove me wrong I will go out and buy the light and throw away my glowing camo. 

GW


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

*So, uv brighteners are bad...*

without reading the whole thread, can somebody tell me what brand of u.v. killer to buy?

I saw the pic in the 2nd or 3rd post but couldn't see what brand it was.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Great White said:


> Your right I don't know what all John is doing about UV, but I know what he said. He uses the detergent that you were saying "glows" and he uses a Badlands pack that is made out of the USA, and according to you it most likely glows.
> 
> Instead of taking personal shots at me prove me wrong. I’m just saying what are you trying to prove? Is it that some camo glows under a black light? You have done that and thank you for that hard work. Or is it that deer see the same camo glowing like it does under the black light? If it is you have shown nothing to prove your point. And even if they do, does it bother them? You have not proved that either.
> 
> ...


If you take the time to read the actual study you will learn that deer do not have a UV filter like humans which allows them to see UV brighteners very easily or (unobstructed) especially during low light conditions..AKA best times to hunt. Believe it, don't believe it...that is up to you I just provided the info. This is all I'm going to say to you so not to turn this into a romper room thread... read the scientific study and take from it what you will....happy hunting!






> without reading the whole thread, can somebody tell me what brand of u.v. killer to buy?


If you read the entire opening thread you would not be asking this question.


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

*If you would read what I posted you would have seen that I acknowledged that deer see uv. We all know that they do*. My issue is that you are suggesting that everyone go and buy a black light and test their camo, buy new camo and re-upholster there blinds and treestands. This is what I'm asking;

1. Do deer see the camo glow just as it does with your black light test?

2. If they don't, then how bright does the camo actually "glow"?

3. Does the "glow" even bother the deer? There are other things in a deer's world that "glow" from uv's, so why would it bother a deer?

Until you can answer these questions this test means nothing. I'm not picking on you, but just because you did a test does not mean that you have it right! You have only some of the data required to make a sound decision. Yes deer see uv and their eyes are made to do that, yes some camo has uv brighteners in it that under a black light causes it to glow, but you are missing a couple pieces of information. How our camo looks to a deer and what the deers reaction is to that camo.

I'm just tired of hunters (myself included) running out and buying every new "this is it" product on the market. And you can not use the saying "every little bit helps", because if you can't prove that it effects the deer then it won't help. It will just cause you to spend more money.

GW


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Q2DEATH said:


> without reading the whole thread, can somebody tell me what brand of u.v. killer to buy?
> 
> I saw the pic in the 2nd or 3rd post but couldn't see what brand it was.


I guess not.


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## sq246 (Nov 11, 2002)

*Q2 Nothing works really*

Nothing really gets the UV out once its in the closthing. It can be somewhat subdueded by uv killer from atsko or whatever but its a waist of money really.

sorry, just the facts.

SQ


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## sq246 (Nov 11, 2002)

*Natural UV*

All you na sayers that think nature is just full of radiant UV...try getting snow to flouresce...nope, won't happen.


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## abps1 (Feb 11, 2006)

Great White,

I couldn't agree more with you. According to this "study", I would be absolutely glowing to these deer...how in the heck could I ever kill one? Why would a deer ever come close to me? You know, that big glowing blob in the tree or sitting on the ground. Until it can be proven to the degree it actually matters, don't get all freaked out people


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

sq246 said:


> All you na sayers that think nature is just full of radiant UV...try getting snow to flouresce...nope, won't happen.


I'm not being a "na sayer" I'm adding to the "study". You need to add these elements for this study to work. I'm ok with any way this turns out, if the study is done right.

I never said that nature is full of radiant UV, I said "other things in a deers world glow".

Have you tried with a black light to get snow to glow?


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## jdduffy (Sep 19, 2006)

Deadfall said:


> Do you believe in hunting the wind and staying quiet? With that kind of thinking you would need to ask him what he is smelling and hearing as well.
> 
> I don't know if I buy into the UV thing 100% but this thread has provided some valuable info for many people. If simply doing a little more shopping to find clothes (when in the market for new clothes) without the UV brighteners in them can improve my odds in the field I am all for it. I am certain it won't cost me any more money and won't hurt my chances of seeing more game.


you know without a doubt they can smell you just by observing them sniffing and lip curling.and you know they have keen vision by how fast they pick up any movement,and the fact they don't bump into trees when they walk around.but what color that they are seeing? ain't a lab coat alive that can tell you that for sure.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

sq246 said:


> Nothing really gets the UV out once its in the closthing. It can be somewhat subdueded by uv killer from atsko or whatever but its a waist of money really.
> 
> sorry, just the facts.
> 
> SQ


Q2DEATH this is a 100% correct statement. that shirt you see glowing on page 4 was washed at least 3 times in Atskos sport wash then treated with UV killer 2 or 3 times. That is proof that it does not work as advertised...."killing UV" That is why you should make sure your cloths are UV free at time of purchase.


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## Flatop (Jul 6, 2008)

*UV light*

This may sound silly but..... I am wondering if...... I can cover the UV "infected" material that is on my blind ? Here's the deal over the weekend I purchase a chair blind. What a cool thing it is. I freaking love this thing. I tested it out night before last. I set up at the edge of the woods. Deer came out 25 feet from me, seemed to have seen a ghost and unassed the AO PDQ (that means he didn't just leave he left with purpose). So I assumed it was a scent thing as I was not at all scent free. Last night I took the blind to a different location, deer came out 100 yrds or so away just as calm as could be I watched the deer look up and pick me out (completly enclosed with window covers etc.) and stop dead in her tracks. Took that deer about 3 seconds to disappear in the woods and never return. Came home and was thinking about this tread which I had read a few weeks ago. Got out a black light bulb and the darn thing lights up like a Christmas tree. Mostly it glows orange and red. Pretty bright. I want to use this blind so I started thinking to myslef, I wounder if I can use fabric paint or just plain flat paint to cover the darn thing up ? I would think that flat colors don't have UV brighteners in them. Any one ever try that? I will try calliing the mfg to see what they say but I am sure I can guess. I think the material in some sort of nylon...? Any thoughts ????????


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## RNO (Jan 13, 2007)

Flatop said:


> This may sound silly but..... I am wondering if...... I can cover the UV "infected" material that is on my blind ? Here's the deal over the weekend I purchase a chair blind. What a cool thing it is. I freaking love this thing. I tested it out night before last. I set up at the edge of the woods. Deer came out 25 feet from me, seemed to have seen a ghost and unassed the AO PDQ (that means he didn't just leave he left with purpose). So I assumed it was a scent thing as I was not at all scent free. Last night I took the blind to a different location, deer came out 100 yrds or so away just as calm as could be I watched the deer look up and pick me out (completly enclosed with window covers etc.) and stop dead in her tracks. Took that deer about 3 seconds to disappear in the woods and never return. Came home and was thinking about this tread which I had read a few weeks ago. Got out a black light bulb and the darn thing lights up like a Christmas tree. Mostly it glows orange and red. Pretty bright. I want to use this blind so I started thinking to myslef, I wounder if I can use fabric paint or just plain flat paint to cover the darn thing up ? I would think that flat colors don't have UV brighteners in them. Any one ever try that? I will try calliing the mfg to see what they say but I am sure I can guess. I think the material in some sort of nylon...? Any thoughts ????????



Take it back and get your money... I understand that you like it, but can you even manuver enough to take a shot? Have you tried ? 
I just can't see myself getting a shot off with my bow, maybe a gun, and maybe I'm just too big to work out of one. 
If you are determined to make it work, maybe buy some of the Sportwash and UV Killer, load it into a spray bottle and wash that dude down in the driveway. Or get some UV free fabric and cover it up.


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## M Kelly (Jul 18, 2007)

Well I grabbed my sons Black Light and headed to the basement to see what was up. My orange gear glowed like a light, my camo's seem fine, but what bothered me the most was the wraps and vanes on my arrows. They glowed like a beacon. Guess I'll have to cover them up. Great Post
and good luck this season SEPTEMBER 15th is on it's way.
Live Free or Die.
Mike


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## Ridley (Dec 28, 2005)

Finally got a blue black light and did some tests......

Summit goliath climber, glows like a giant purple marshmallow.....and not just a little glow, like a purple flashlight in the night.

Favorite Mossy Oak obsession overcamo that I wore almost everyday last year.......glowed.

Rocky RT-AP gloves....glowed badly

Walmart Fusion T shirt....glowed

Here's a list of the items that didn't glow.....
All my fleece, including my new AP fleece outer wear, my Son's walmart fusion coat, about half my glove collection, rocky boots, gander mountain outfitters jacket.

I'm finding this UV thread very interesting. Mainly because i was busted at close range quite a few times when i didn't think i should have been. Seeing that my FAVORITE OUTFIT, gloves, and climber all glows.......I can see why. I mean, I could barely see myself looking down a few times, and bam, looks right up at me. 

I'm off to cabelas this weekend with my light and find me a new Dream Season pro outfit that doesn't glow. I will have my wife resew/recover my climber seat with fleece in AP.

Edited to add....My Cabelas full draw pop up blind with the leafy outer DID NOT glow, even though i expected it to since the mossy oak suit glowed so prevalently and is also of a nylonesque/polyester material.

If the research at the beginning of this thread is correct....I might as well been wearing blue jeans and a white T shirt last season.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Q2DEATH this is a 100% correct statement. that shirt you see glowing on page 4 was washed at least 3 times in Atskos sport wash then treated with UV killer 2 or 3 times. That is proof that it does not work as advertised...."killing UV" That is why you should make sure your cloths are UV free at time of purchase.


I see, thanks.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

RNO said:


> Take it back and get your money... I understand that you like it, but can you even manuver enough to take a shot? Have you tried ?
> I just can't see myself getting a shot off with my bow, maybe a gun, and maybe I'm just too big to work out of one.
> If you are determined to make it work, maybe buy some of the Sportwash and UV Killer, load it into a spray bottle and wash that dude down in the driveway. Or get some UV free fabric and cover it up.



I have not seen a blind yet that does not glow. I mention in this thread somewhere that my brother re clothed his blind with army digital camo it lightened the blind by 9 pounds so it is only 11 pounds now(double bull blind) and is waterproof or at least when you touch the roof when it's pouring out it does not start to drip. The only way your going to make your blind not glow Flatop is to replace the material covering it like RNO said. UV Killer does not work so it certainly will not work on your blind. I tested the blind your talking about at cabela's and it glowed. I too believe it is ment for gun hunting not bow if it is in fact the blind im thinking of.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Ridley said:


> Finally got a blue black light and did some tests......
> 
> Summit goliath climber, glows like a giant purple marshmallow.....and not just a little glow, like a purple flashlight in the night.
> 
> ...



That's good stuff....
Amazing isn't it. wait till you test something that you really like and one sleeve glows...drives me crazy or 1 or 2 panels on a hat you really like...lol had this happen.


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## Flatop (Jul 6, 2008)

> The only way your going to make your blind not glow Flatop is to replace the material covering it like RNO said.


So the fabric paint is not a viable solution in your mind ? 



> I tested the blind your talking about at cabela's and it glowed. I too believe it is ment for gun hunting not bow if it is in fact the blind im thinking of.


Yeah the blind may work better for gun hunting, but for now I want to use it for scounting.


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

Just received an email back from the fine folks at asat. No uv brighteners in their 3d suit according to them. I will be ordering soon ill keep ya posted.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Flatop said:


> So the fabric paint is not a viable solution in your mind ? *Did you find paint that would actually adhear to the material? If so then I don't see why it would not work. I would paint it like the woodland military camo if it was me. Let us know how it works.*
> 
> 
> Yeah the blind may work better for gun hunting, but for now I want to use it for scounting. *Yeah! I would think that blind would be great for concealing yourself while scouting*.


...


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## regnar (Apr 11, 2004)

Ok, I have been thinking about this for a while. I know WTAILHUNTER and how serious he is about scent and uv control and I believe that there is something to the uv but at the same time I have had a question mark in the back of my head. 

I know the fabric glows with a uv light. I just dont know if the animals see that fabric the same way. Is the UV light in the normal daylight enough to make the fabric glow? Possible, but is it enough to get the attention of an animal? I am not sure.

I have a set of Day one fleece. I have had deer look right through me like I was not there. The other day I tested the fabric under a uv light and it did glow. Is it possible that some fabric glows more under normal UV conditions? Is it possible that different climate conditions (cloudy, stormy) reduces the amount of UV light thus making some clothing less apt to glow? I do know that I only where that fleece when its cold out but I cant remember what the skies looked like.

Im not say that he is wrong or that there is not something to be taken from all this, but I do think that there is a piece of the puzzle missing.

:darkbeer::darkbeer:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

regnar said:


> Is it possible that some fabric glows more under normal UV conditions?


 *Yes! it is possible that some of your cloths will not glow as bright as some others may. I have bought cloths that glowed but were not as bright as another garment of the same exact kind. UV Killer can dull cloths made of cotton but they will still glow, they just wont be as bright as cotton shirt untreated.*




> Is it possible that different climate conditions (cloudy, stormy) reduces the amount of UV light thus making some clothing less apt to glow?


 *Yes! I would have to say that a bright sunny day would be your best chance if any to possibly go un-noticed by game. Because deer do not have a UV filter in there eyes they may be able to see UV almost as clear in the sun light as in the shadows or low light conditions...you would probably have to be sitting directly in the sun to go undetected which is something no one is probably going to do anyway...IMO*


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## Ridley (Dec 28, 2005)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> I have not seen a blind yet that does not glow.



Like I said a few posts up, My Cabelas full draw 5x blind DOES NOT GLOW.


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## Ridley (Dec 28, 2005)

Nope it doesn't glow, lol. I decided I better recheck in it's entirety just to be sure so I just set it up outside, and hung one of my non-glowing camo fleece shirts on it and one that glowed, and checked it out. No glow from the blind whatsoever, and the walmart camo t shirt I mentioned earlier was CLEARLY visable and glowing in contrast to the Pop Up, while the fleece and blind completely blended in to the bushes behind. I know i have had deer within feet of me in this blind before, and never had one spook. I also have never brushed in this blind, since it has the leafy look to it.

Surprising to me since the blind is undoubtedly made in some china sweatshop, but I aint complaining :wink: They should use that in their sales pitch....."We copied the double bull hub system...but we don't glow" :wink:


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## turkeyinstinct (Apr 4, 2007)

WOW I have been reading through this for like 3 hours and it is really late now!! Last spring I had a trail cam set up close to where I was gonna put my ground blind up for turkeys and I got lots of pics of deer well I noticed that right after I put that blind out I never got another pic of a deer but still lots of turkey. I thought maybe it was just because I had the windows open and the black spooked the deer where the turkeys dident really care maybe it had to do with UV or maybe not:dontknow: Maybe we should take a pile of UV filled camo and put it in front of a trail cam and see if we see less deer then if that pile was not there:set1_thinking:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Ridley said:


> Nope it doesn't glow, lol. I decided I better recheck in it's entirety just to be sure so I just set it up outside, and hung one of my non-glowing camo fleece shirts on it and one that glowed, and checked it out. No glow from the blind whatsoever, and the walmart camo t shirt I mentioned earlier was CLEARLY visable and glowing in contrast to the Pop Up, while the fleece and blind completely blended in to the bushes behind. I know i have had deer within feet of me in this blind before, and never had one spook. I also have never brushed in this blind, since it has the leafy look to it.
> 
> Surprising to me since the blind is undoubtedly made in some china sweatshop, but I aint complaining :wink: They should use that in their sales pitch....."We copied the double bull hub system...but we don't glow" :wink:



LOL....:thumb: yeah it used to be if it was made here in the US you were safe but now it's anyones guess so everything must be checked.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

turkeyinstinct said:


> WOW I have been reading through this for like 3 hours and it is really late now!! Last spring I had a trail cam set up close to where I was gonna put my ground blind up for turkeys and I got lots of pics of deer well I noticed that right after I put that blind out I never got another pic of a deer but still lots of turkey. I thought maybe it was just because I had the windows open and the black spooked the deer where the turkeys dident really care maybe it had to do with UV or maybe not:dontknow: Maybe we should take a pile of UV filled camo and put it in front of a trail cam and see if we see less deer then if that pile was not there:set1_thinking:



It's like anything if it's there long enough they get used to it. If turkeys are hunted hard and the people hunting them have UV brightened cloths on then the turkeys will shy away from blinds as well(or anything else with UVs). I heard turkeys have eyes that are equivalent to 11 power binos. I tend to beleive it from observing them. In my opinion if deer are hunted in a particular area by people that have UV in there cloths the deer are going to associate anything that is UV to danger or humans...IMO


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## marforme (May 30, 2006)

Great thread. Can people post their findings on which brands of camo clothing has been found to not contain any UV's. I am sure there have been several posted so far, but I don't have the time to go back and find them all.


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## Red127 (Dec 5, 2007)

This thread makes sense to me and glad I read it. I plan to check all my camo this weekend. I get that most of the camo made in China, and the U.S. that was made in China, will glow. What about camo from Mexico or Bangledesh? Any idea off the top of the head or more of a you have to check it to be sure?


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## toxotis (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm not stating the deer can or cannot see UV, but if they did, what biological function would it serve? Obviously hunters in the woods with manmade clothing with UV brighteners are a recent development in the evolutionary existence of whitetails. 

I pose this question not to debunk anyone's theory but to make sense of why deer see as they do and maybe to use it to gain a better understanding of whitetail behavior. Does the ability to see UV light allow deer to detect predators, other deer, food, etc?

I wonder what would happen if you put a deer hide under the light, specifically the white areas.


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## Deadfall (Apr 9, 2008)

That is an interesting question. I will offer two speculative suggestions. One is that perhaps deer have not evolved eyes as some higher mammals have which are capable of blocking certain UV wavelengths. They don't see in the visible color spectrum from red to violoet right? Color vision must not be advantageous to them either. The other may be attributed to the first suggestion. Deer are often not most active at the brightest hours of the day and therefore may not gain an evolutionary advantage to blocking parts of the UV spectrum. This may also be an advantage to seeing during low light conditions.

Just a couple of thoughts that may or may not help to answer your question.

Regardless, I think this thread has proved very useful. If all I have to do is a little bit more shopping to find camo and equipment that doesn't contain UV brighteners in it to help my chances at success, I'm all for it. Afterall, not having UV brighteners certainly won't hurt my chances at success.





toxotis said:


> I'm not stating the deer can or cannot see UV, but if they did, what biological function would it serve? Obviously hunters in the woods with manmade clothing with UV brighteners are a recent development in the evolutionary existence of whitetails.
> 
> I pose this question not to debunk anyone's theory but to make sense of why deer see as they do and maybe to use it to gain a better understanding of whitetail behavior. Does the ability to see UV light allow deer to detect predators, other deer, food, etc?
> 
> I wonder what would happen if you put a deer hide under the light, specifically the white areas.


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## NJ-XT (Jan 24, 2006)

Regardless if deer do or do not see the UV glow, its better to be safe then sorry.

Last season during the rut, I had the biggest buck I have ever seen come in, he was upwind of me and I was perfectly still. He was looking at me as he came in head on. He stayed for just a minute or 2, and fed, but never took an eye off me and never turned broadside. He even backed out. He knew I was there the entire time. And he made sure I knew , that he knew I was there. 

The UV glow would be a good explaination of how he know I was there. And again, its better to be safe then sorry, and I will from here on out do my best to not be UV hot.

Thanks for the informative post.... Some of us really do appreciate it. :darkbeer:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

toxotis said:


> I'm not stating the deer can or cannot see UV, but if they did, what biological function would it serve? Obviously hunters in the woods with manmade clothing with UV brighteners are a recent development in the evolutionary existence of whitetails.
> 
> I pose this question not to debunk anyone's theory but to make sense of why deer see as they do and maybe to use it to gain a better understanding of whitetail behavior. Does the ability to see UV light allow deer to detect predators, other deer, food, etc?
> 
> I wonder what would happen if you put a deer hide under the light, specifically the white areas.


Toxotis these are excellent questions! Deadfall hit it right on the head...deer are most active at night. With out a UV filter in there eyes they are able to let more light into there eye from the moon, headlights, possible even from a bright stary night and for lack of a better word re-use(reflect) the light to see at night. this is why they are able to run threw the woods at night unlike us humans and why when the lights shine on a deer at night there eyes glow(tapetum).If we had no UV filter in our eyes we would be able to see at night as well. 

Thx for the insite on the issue...


The tapetum lucidum is a layer of tissue in the eye of many vertebrate animals, that lies immediately behind or sometimes within the retina. It reflects visible light back through the retina, increasing the light available to the photoreceptors. This improves vision in low-light conditions, but can cause the perceived image to be blurry from the interference of the reflected light. The tapetum lucidum contributes to the superior night vision of some animals. Many of these animals are nocturnal, especially carnivores that hunt at night, and their prey. Others are deep sea animals. Although some primates have a tapetum lucidum, humans do not.


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

As I posted earlier, I saw like two deer last year versus all the past years where I would have deer around my stand just about everyday...the only thing I changed, my camo...got all new stuff from wally world...full of UV. Old camo says made in USA, new stuff made in China. My old stuff is worn out so my younger brother was kind enough to give me his old fatigues...all UV free, even has a tag inside stating to NOT use UV brightener detergent. Although I have not earned the right to wear it, he said it was ok since we are bros and the last name is the same :darkbeer:

Another question I had, I think I am going to use camo face paint instead of a mask this year, does any of the cheap face paint glow? How about the camo on my X force? I am getting a blb light tonight so I can check everything. 

On your Summit, I have one as well, did just your seat glow or the whole treestand, Al, straps and all? 

Thanks again for posting this up...I thought I was going to lose my mind, just plain forgot how to hunt last year...I hope this year is better.


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

*Now i know!*

Well I just bought a blb and went over my hunting stuff....
Old camo from years ago, no glow
Recent camo from wally world, holy crap it almost hurts my eyes it glows so bright. That combined with my treestand and no wonder I didn't see many deer last year. 
Old hang-on tree stand I use to use, no glow.
Summit treestand I used last year, glows like crazy (fabric seat, hang on bags everything cloth).
Check out the picture of my bros Marine camo I am going to use this year laying on top of my summit treestand.
FYI I bought a cheap (last minute) fold up deer decoy from Dick's last year..no glow whatsoever except the white scent things they give you to hang on it.


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## bobbal (Sep 15, 2004)

Ridley said:


> Like I said a few posts up, My Cabelas full draw 5x blind DOES NOT GLOW.


My Cabela hub blind doesn't glow either, but my old T2 blind, I bought in 2000 glows like a torch.

Bob


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Ok I am sold. for a few dollars I can buy the Atsko kit.

If it works good. if it doesnt owell, whats $25 when I have $1000 invested in gear.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

This is copied and pasted form Scentblockers site.

can anyone confirm

You do not have to treat your ScentBlocker® suit with a UV Killer. Most camouflage clothing, including ScentBlocker®, is not made with UV reflective dyes, nor do our clothing detergents add these dyes. Some commercial detergents do


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## toxotis (Apr 7, 2005)

Ok I was at Lowes yesterday for other reasons but I picked a Slyvania "Black Light" bulb. In a dark room I checked my camo clothes and other hunting items. So either I am extremely lucky and none of my camo has any UV brighteners in it or the light is not what I need to effectively check my gear. Nothing glowed as others have shown or described but I did notice alot of stuff had a red/orange tint. I also tried the light on non-camo clothes to see if it would work as these items have been washed in standard detergents. No glow. 

Nocks and vanes that were flourescant glowed like crazy. 

Where else can I get a light? The light I got had a purple coloring.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

toxotis said:


> Ok I was at Lowes yesterday for other reasons but I picked a Slyvania "Black Light" bulb. In a dark room I checked my camo clothes and other hunting items. So either I am extremely lucky and none of my camo has any UV brighteners in it or the light is not what I need to effectively check my gear. Nothing glowed as others have shown or described but I did notice alot of stuff had a red/orange tint. I also tried the light on non-camo clothes to see if it would work as these items have been washed in standard detergents. No glow.
> 
> Nocks and vanes that were flourescant glowed like crazy.
> 
> Where else can I get a light? The light I got had a purple coloring.



goto atsko.com they sell a small flashlight desinged for this very test. like $8


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

So... the conclusion is that some of you guys are now going to spend more money trying to chase the UV "findings" because you're all caught up in the "new findings." It's your money, spend it as you wish.

This reminds me of the "Great Scent Blocker" debate. Anybody that's been around for any length of time knows what I'm referring to. 

I'm not going to change anything I do, nor do I plan to test anything I own. I can continuously stalk to within easy bow range of any animal I hunt and I can do so the vast majority of the time. Sometimes it's noise that gives me away, but it's usually a shift in the wind. I don't worry about UV's and I don't own any clothing that says scent blocker on it. 

Just 2 weeks ago I was stalking a cow elk and she turned and looked at me at 60 yards, watched me for a few minutes, turned back to the direction she had been facing and laid her head back down. Now, keep in mind that I'm wearing Predator Spring Green (made in China) and these _new findings _say that it's the worst pattern to use. I had absolutely no cover between me and her, I'm standing right out in the open. The slight breeze was blowing in my face. When she looked away I continued my stalk and moments later I'm at 35 yards waiting for her to stand up. After a little more time, she stood up, never once looked in my direction and she left with my arrow in her lungs. What I'm saying is in spite of my Chinese UV glow, she wasn't concerned with whatever the giant glowie thingy was.

I'm also not going to replace the fabric on my DB blind. Why? Because the antelope we hunted last month didn't seem to be concerned with the giant marshmallow glowing 20 yards from their waterhole. In fact, the buck my 14yr old son shot was 18 yards form the giant glowing marshmallow and stayed there feeding and drinking, and perfectly relaxed, until an arrow slammed through his lungs. Maybe they like marshmallows too. And I've never had a turkey turn tail and run from a DB blind. 

If those of you that do use the Scent-Lok products and UV is also a concern, then more power to you. If it gives you the mental edge and you are more confident, then go for it. The rest of us that see no need for it will just keep doing what we do without getting caught up in the latest _findings_. 

I suppose that this is just one of those personal choice things. And, personally, I believe that some people just get way too concerned over some things (scent-lok and UV's come to mind). I'll just keep the wind in my face and move slow, stop moving when something is looking at me take my chances while sitting in my giant glowing marshmallow.

Good luck this season guys. Mine is over already. We've killed our deer, antelope and elk already. I hope yours is just as successful whether you glow like me or not.


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## rutnstrut (Sep 16, 2003)

I have read through this whole thread with great interest. It is not that I don't believe the whole "UV glow" thing. I am a scent fanatic or should I say an no scent fanatic. Couple this with hunting the wind and other good woodsmanship and I as many of you have had many deer basically in my lap at times. I hunt mostly from tree stands but from pop up ground blinds some. I also have some ground blinds made out of natural marerials that are in some of my best rut spots on public land. I and many of my buddies over the years have had and shot many deer in close and we all wear differrent camo. When I was younger and couldn't afford multiple hangon stands,I would often build natural ground blinds. I took a lot of bucks hunting that way,but the impotant thing is I always seemd to have a lot of deer in close range. I was young then and always thought shooting bucks no matter the age was better,I would always have big old does in close and they never busted. In fact the only times I got busted in those days was when I would be dumb and hunt the wrong wind. Back then I wore cheap Realtree camo that I bought at Walmart so maybe itdid not have UV brightners. But I have a few buddies that are CHEAP when it comes to camo and to this day they love the Wally world stuff. These two are the ones that got me hooked on hunting mature bucks as they each eat,sleep and breath mature whitetails. I guess my point to this LOONG rant is between my own thoughts and some that guys I know who get it done year in and out with big bucks we think that the UV thing is NO BIG DEAL. Hunt the wind,hunt hard,and hunt smart . But hey if you all want to spend god only knows how much time checking your clothes for "glow". Then trying to fix that,I would rather put that time and energy into,hunting,scouting,shooting,.


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

FYI I tested some more stuff. 
$5 long sleeve T-shirt from wally world, made in china, no glow
pants from wally world same company in china, glows like crazy
cheap button up jacket from wally world, same company in china, no glow. 
Some realtree pants I bought awhile ago, made in USA, glow like crazy. 

I really don't know if all this is true or not....for a fact....but I do know that I didn't see a fraction of the deer this past year that I have been for 5 years...all I changed was my clothing and tree stand..both of which glow. So because I have spent all this money, just to be safe I am going to NOT wear UV brightened clothing this year.


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

mark j said:


> I suppose that this is just one of those personal choice things. And, personally, I believe that some people just get way too concerned over some things (scent-lok and UV's come to mind). I'll just keep the wind in my face and move slow, stop moving when something is looking at me take my chances while sitting in my giant glowing marshmallow.





rutnstrut said:


> Hunt the wind,hunt hard,and hunt smart . But hey if you all want to spend god only knows how much time checking your clothes for "glow". Then trying to fix that,I would rather put that time and energy into,hunting,scouting,shooting,.


Amen to that brothers! This test proves one thing and one thing only...some camo glows under a black light. That's it. 

I have asked this before from all that say UV makes or breaks a hunt but have yet to have anyone explain these to me:

1. Do the deer see the "glow" the same way it looks when you use your light?

2. If so does it bother them? I would say no, thanks to the countless deer shot out of a DB Blind every year. A blind that you have said is one of the worst. That alone disproves your whole theory.

You are not an expert on this subject so you can not claim what you are claiming. Everyone wants the magic dust to make them great hunters. Forget all the magic, just hunt!

GW


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

Great White said:


> Everyone wants the magic dust to make them great hunters. Forget all the magic, just hunt!
> 
> GW


I'm going to bottle and sell some magic hunting pixie dust and market it to hunters. I bet I make a ton of money on it too! 

I'll put it in a 3oz. camo bottle, make some outlandish claims and sell it for $9.95 to an unsuspecting target group. Of course, I'll also have a 16oz. bulk refill bottle that will retail for $19.95 so you can refill that 3 oz. easy carry bottle and save money like a smart consumer should.


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## WEEGEE (Oct 13, 2007)

I believe in this UV glow.
I'v had too many crows pick me out sitting in a stand.
A few years ago I got the chance to wear a real sniper's suit. I had a whole flock of birds attack me as if I was a bear or some animal .They would fly right in my face about a dozen of them,nonstop.
This has never happened before to me (59yrs.)being in the woods.
Now I know what big foot goes through everyday.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

toxotis said:


> Slyvania "Black Light" bulb. Where else can I get a light? The light I got had a purple coloring.


*Lowes has a BLB light "blue black light" not black light bulb. I find that a black light will work similar but in order for it to be completely accurate it must be a blue black light.*




rodney482 said:


> Ok I am sold. for a few dollars I can buy the Atsko kit.
> If it works good. if it doesnt owell, whats $25 when I have $1000 invested in gear.


*Rodney the atsko uv-killer will not get rid of the your suit glow! if it glows it will always glow. If it is cotton then it can be dimmed only temporarily with UV-Killer this same rule applies no matter what the camo or the maker.*


One of the intentions of this thread is to prevent people from spending money unnecessarily on cloths that contain UVs for those that believe in the scientific studys that proved deer see UV.

As was stated in the thread many times, it does not matter where your camo was made china or USA it can contain UV brighteners and must be checked.

I have had guys say to me many, many, many times I never checked my cloths and always see plenty of deer. When I got them to test there cloths either with me or for themselves they found it in fact did not glow....maybe it was the UV maybe not, maybe luck, maybe not...that's up to each individual
to decide.

*It's ok to disagree with these test/research results, we live in America and we are all free to agree or disagree with anyone on any subject we choose to. That is why must of us love living in the USA.* :wink:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

WEEGEE said:


> I believe in this UV glow.
> I'v had too many crows pick me out sitting in a stand.
> A few years ago I got the chance to wear a real sniper's suit. I had a whole flock of birds attack me as if I was a bear or some animal .They would fly right in my face about a dozen of them,nonstop.
> This has never happened before to me (59yrs.)being in the woods.
> Now I know what big foot goes through everyday.



Yup! That's good info right there, I don't care who you are!...lol 

If you call any manufacturer of military camo they will tell you the most important process that the military will insist of the maker is that no UV process(treatment) is to be done to there camo fabric. The military is the whole reason for the UV findings. They found that there snipers got picked off by birds and other creatures and gave there position away to the enemy.

One of the first things a hunter will notice when UV free is that the squirrels
and blue Jays that normally throw a fit no longer care about your presents.


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## 206Moose (Apr 29, 2007)

I would like for the owner of Atsko to comment on your claim that his product does not work like he claims. We should hear both sides in order to have a good debate. Does anyone know how to contact them?


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> One of the intentions of this thread is to prevent people from spending money unnecessarily on cloths that contain UVs for those that believe in the scientific studys that proved deer see UV.



Your thread is doing the exact opposite of what you are saying. You are telling guys to re-fabric their DB Blinds, buy a special light, get rid of their camo that glows, buy new camo and re-fabric their tree-stand seats. For what?

No one is arguing that deer do not have a UV filter. I have asked you a countless number of times to answer some key points missing in your “study” and you time after time dodge the question or flat out do not respond. Can you answer theses questions?

1.	Do deer see the camo the same way it looks when you use your light?
2.	If so does the glow effect the deer’s behavior? If not then how does a deer see the camo?
3.	Do other things in a deer’s world also glow?

In your so called study you have proven one thing and that is that some camo glows in complete darkness with a special light. You have not done your study in a controlled environment, you have not done it on the same deer and there are countless videos out there that prove you dead wrong!

Why is it that you tell people to re-fabric their DB Blinds because it will cause deer to spook due to uv in the fabric making it glow. But there are plenty videos showing the exact opposite? 

Are you a deer biologist? How can you make these claims? Please do not refer to past studies. We all know that deer do not have a UV filter. And if you bring up a study from a deer hunting magazine I will bring up three more that say there is no proof that UV glowing camo effects a deer’s behavior. 

You need to stop making claim that you can not back up. At best this is a guess, and that is all.

GW


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## ATB (Apr 14, 2006)

NTYMADATER said:


> I would like for the owner of Atsko to comment on your claim that his product does not work like he claims. We should hear both sides in order to have a good debate. Does anyone know how to contact them?


I would be interested as well. From this thread I bought $50 of Atsko stuff to reduce any glow. Well I've dropped more on bowhunting stuff that didnt work or live up to the hype. I turn 40 next year maybe wisdom will finally hit me!:wink:


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## John 6 (Aug 18, 2008)

GW ...wow

I am on the fence here ...but lets look at one fact. Atsko has been in business for a long time saying the exact same thing. Actually selling a product that claims to eliminate UV's to the hunting community. 

Why would Atsko be marketing there products to hunter's if they did not feel it was an issue for hunters? Then you have to ask ....what would be the issue. 

Deer seeing the UV Brighteners in Camo.


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## Red127 (Dec 5, 2007)

IMO, I can accept whitetails being able to see clothing and items containing dyes and UV. I also think that it likely depends on what kind of "UV signature" for better choice of terms, that you present to a whitetail at a particular time of the day that would likely determine if it will spook them completely, make them more wary or cause them little to no concern. It is something that I will be mindful of trying to accomodate into my hunting, but not likely go crazy, as you like scent, you are always going to give some off.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

NTYMADATER said:


> I would like for the owner of Atsko to comment on your claim that his product does not work like he claims. We should hear both sides in order to have a good debate. Does anyone know how to contact them?



I agree it would. I have used there products as you saw if you read the thread(I also posted pics of the products of atsko I used) I am all for a product that works. I think atsko has good intentions with there products but it simply does not work. 

I called and spoke to one of the owners at Atsko again today, he said they have never had anyone claim that there product did not work...His name is Dan he is one of the owners/developers/marketers of Atsko products, very nice guy.(I will not post his last name for reasons of privacy). I had a lengthy conversation with Dan and he found it hard to believe that it did not work. I told him my brother and I both ordered the product at different times about 6 months apart. I asked if it was possible to get a bad batch but a die is a die and he agreed. I explained how we both had the same results. 

I told Dan I would gladly send him the shirt(100% cotton) that was first treated a couple times in sport wash then treated with the UV killer and still glows. I am also sending him the used bottle to look at as well as a shirt that is 50% cotton 50% polyester that I had no luck with.


*ATB* said he just bought some of there product himself. So he can try it and give us his finding. He will find the same results my brother and I had...it will help to dull any material made of cotton but the effects are short lived..as far as any polyester blend it simply will not work.

Atsko is an easy company to get a hold of... 
ATSKO 1.800.845.2728 http://www.atsko.com/index.html


*ATB* please try this on some of your gear/cloths and let us know if it kills the glow.


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

wt hunter I also tried a black light bulb not the blb and my camo gave off a orange hue. Nothing I tested glowed brightly at all. Do i need a different light? I see that some others are finding the same thing. What is up with the orange hue???
Thanks


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## skipper34 (Oct 17, 2006)

This is no way meant to put any doubt in what WTHUNTER has written. But I have been hunting deer with archery gear for over 40 years. I have never used Sportwash or UV Killer. I have taken many deer over the years without it. Was I just dumb lucky, or were all of those deer color-blind or what?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

NHBOONER said:


> wt hunter I also tried a black light bulb not the blb and my camo gave off a orange hue. Nothing I tested glowed brightly at all. Do i need a different light? I see that some others are finding the same thing. What is up with the orange hue???
> Thanks



I personaly have not seen this orange hue NHBOONER but if it doesn't look like an article of clothing that does glow under the light I don't think it's something you need to worry about...





skipper34 said:


> This is no way meant to put any doubt in what WTHUNTER has written. But I have been hunting deer with archery gear for over 40 years. I have never used Sportwash or UV Killer. I have taken many deer over the years without it. Was I just dumb lucky, or were all of those deer color-blind or what?
> Today 06:55 PM


Skipper no offence taken! the only purpose of sport wash is to not add any ultra violet dies to your cloths when you wash them(unlike house hold detergent) and UV-Killer does not work killing the UV in cloths so it wouldn't have mattered if you did use them...lol if you been hunting 40 years do you wear wool or you got all the new gear camo? Wool does not contain UVs just a thought.


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

I would say it glows a little. It doesnt blend in with the background. It just glows orange but not very bright. I my realtree and skyline and all of them were the same orange color???? Oh well just ordered some asat will test that when it gets here.


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## the natural (Oct 21, 2005)

never even hurd of atsko or whatever. take a blue light or whatever and you will recieve that same glow of almost or most anything with moisture or that absorbs uvs in the woods which is everything that grows. the main thing is that like always when hunting deer you must be still. you can have on any color in the rainbow but if you sit there and wave at the deer they will see you. me nor my father have never used uv killers on our clothes, blinds, or treestands and have been very successful in the hardest, most hunted and spookiest state in the country. buy what you like and what you are comfortable in. back in the day they use to just wear jeans and flannels and everyone knows deer see blue better than any color and they use to slaughter deer. 
been huntin successfully to long to worry about what someone else thinks deer can see.........................


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## skipper34 (Oct 17, 2006)

:cheers:


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

*True*



ftshooter said:


> just don't use white ..I spray paint my tree stands and they don't glow under my black light..


White reflects the highest amount of sectrum light.

While black reflects the least.


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## ATB (Apr 14, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> I told Dan I would gladly send him the shirt(100% cotton) that was first treated a couple times in sport wash then treated with the UV killer and still glows. I am also sending him the used bottle to look at as well as a shirt that is 50% cotton 50% polyester that I had no luck with
> 
> Did he take you up on it?
> 
> ...


I will run a load of laundry tonight and treat the other stuff and let you know, it might not be for a couple of nights my son has soccer practice this evening.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

ATB said:


> I told Dan I would gladly send him the shirt(100% cotton) that was first treated a couple times in sport wash then treated with the UV killer and still glows. I am also sending him the used bottle to look at as well as a shirt that is 50% cotton 50% polyester that I had no luck with
> 
> Did he take you up on it?


Yes he did and I will be sending it out tomorrow Wed 9/10. Dan is a very nice guy and when he recieves the shirt he is going to call me and hash it over again. I told him the complete process I followed and he said I did everything correct. We talked for about 45 minutes and he mentioned that it could have been the polymer not being added to the stuff I got but also said it would be unlikely that my brothers bottle would have the same issue especially buying them about 6 months apart. 





ATB said:


> I will run a load of laundry tonight and treat the other stuff and let you know


Remember the Sport wash is only to clean with out adding any kind of perfume smell and without adding UV brighteners. It's the UV-Killer that is suppossed to kill or eliminate the glow. I hope you have different results..good luck.


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## NJ-XT (Jan 24, 2006)

I recieved the new Bass Pro Shop Master Hunting catalog in the mail today. Something that I took notice to, that I would not have before reading this thread. All of the Name Brand camo that THEY sell is "IMPORTED" It says this under each article of clothing. 

Do you think that for chain stores these name brands get cheap imported stuff made for just them? Or do you think its "ALL" imported ??

I know WTHunter had said he recieved and uses some natural gear that is made in the USA and it doesnt glow... But the Natural Gear that bass pro shop is selling, clearly states that its imported....


Just thought I would share


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

NJ-XT said:


> I recieved the new Bass Pro Shop Master Hunting catalog in the mail today. Something that I took notice to, that I would not have before reading this thread. All of the Name Brand camo that THEY sell is "IMPORTED" It says this under each article of clothing.
> 
> Do you think that for chain stores these name brands get cheap imported stuff made for just them? Or do you think its "ALL" imported ??
> 
> ...


Funny you should mention that....In this thread somewhere I mentioned that the only natgear that glowed was a shirt from bass pro shop it is the same one I am sending to the owner of Atsko to look at for himself...


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## ATB (Apr 14, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Remember the Sport wash is only to clean with out adding any kind of perfume smell and without adding UV brighteners. It's the UV-Killer that is suppossed to kill or eliminate the glow. I hope you have different results..good luck.


The DVD and people at Atsko said for full effect you need to wash with sport wash to clean out the fibers to accept the UV killer. Anyhow I hand washed a couple of items and treated them with no results for the items that were UV hot. Sent a email to the company with a interesting reply regarding your polyester issue.

From Atsko customer service email
"There are a couple things that can make an item near impossible to treat. High water repellency can be overcome by adding a teaspoon of Sport-Wash to the UV-Killer and applying while still wet from the rinse cycle. Some blend will always move the Killer from poly fibers to cotton fibers leaving the poly untreated. Some things are so hot it would take extensive amount of UV-Killer to block enough UV energy to turn off the glow. These really difficult items should be kept covered or not used for hunting. The majority of articles should respond well and be good for many washings, but the light is the key to knowing which are still a problem. If you left a small spot untreated you may see that the treatment has made a difference, but if it is going to require 3 or more treatments to is probably better not to use the item.

Also be sure you are not holding light too close causing the blue light that escapes from the Black Light to cause a false glow."

I guess good by $50, what really sucks is I bought a ASAT 3d suit and material to sew into my ambush saddle and all accessory pouches and those of course are visible under the light, but from AT users many swear by the ASAT 3d suit as super effective I wonder if their suit looks blue under the light or just mine?


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## Mallards Only (Aug 18, 2008)

I've been following this thread pretty closely and have to say, I'm intrigued. After reading the thread for the first time, I went out and bought a standard blacklight which was all I could find. Only had a couple articles of clothing that really lit up. However, I had several with the orange hue in certain colors of the camo pattern that others have also had. I still have yet to read whether or not this orange hue is a problem "glow" or if it's only the camo that really lights up that's a problem. Has anyone tried a BLB on those same fabrics after using the standard blacklight to see if they light up differently?


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

I guess good by $50, what really sucks is I bought a ASAT 3d suit and material to sew into my ambush saddle and all accessory pouches and those of course are visible under the light, but from AT users many swear by the ASAT 3d suit as super effective I wonder if their suit looks blue under the light or just mine? 
__________________
I sent an email to the asat company and they replied no uv's in the asat 3d suit. Did you purchace the suit this year? I'll be getting mine in a couple of days and I will let you know the outcome.


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## ATB (Apr 14, 2006)

NHBOONER said:


> I guess good by $50, what really sucks is I bought a ASAT 3d suit and material to sew into my ambush saddle and all accessory pouches and those of course are visible under the light, but from AT users many swear by the ASAT 3d suit as super effective I wonder if their suit looks blue under the light or just mine?
> __________________
> I sent an email to the asat company and they replied no uv's in the asat 3d suit. Did you purchace the suit this year? I'll be getting mine in a couple of days and I will let you know the outcome.


I did just a month ago. Let me know how yours looks! Thanks,


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

ATB said:


> The DVD and people at Atsko said for full effect you need to wash with sport wash to clean out the fibers to accept the UV killer


All that means is the material must be clean... gotta love technical jargon...lol. If they were suggesting to wash it with the sport wash simply because it contains no UV brighteners then they would essentially be saying if it has brighteners in it all ready it will not work...yes? My point is it can be washed in any detergent that does not contain UV brighteners.




ATB said:


> Some blends will always move the Killer from poly fibers to cotton fibers leaving the poly untreated


There you have it! in other words if it's not 100% cotton your results will be less then satisfying. Anyone else read that the same way?




Mallards Only said:


> I still have yet to read whether or not this orange hue is a problem "glow" or if it's only the camo that really lights up that's a problem.


I believe that this hue is not an issue....it's not really glowing is it? compared to an item with UVs that is? Is it very faint? if it's the same orangish hue I'm seeing on a pair of my pants then it's not an issue. They do not glow like a piece of paper or clothing with UVs it just doesn't disappear like an item that doesn't glow at all. I don't think this hue is the effect of UVs because it is very dull and simply does not stand out like an obvious item.

Because of your name I assume you are a big duck hunter. I hunt ducks as well and to tell a short story my buddy was getting peaved that the ducks kept flarring as soon as they crested the trees, he kept saying the blind is wrong or the decoys are not layed out correct. I said nope I bet it's your camo...What? he said! to make a long story short..tested camo it had Uvs changed it and now we both almost feel bad for the ducks... happy hunting!




> AT users swear by the ASAT 3d suit as super effective


If it is like my Natural Gear camo I found that everything I ordered directly from Nat Gear was UV free but some of the Nat Gear cloths I ordered from bass pro shops contained UVs.

Did the people that have ASAT that does not glow get it directly from ASAT.com or from a retail store? Just a thought.


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## ATB (Apr 14, 2006)

Cant edit prior post but I bought a yard of the ASAT 3d cloth and the ASAT 3d suit. I had been testing the ASAT 3d CLOTH and assumed that that suit and the cloth should be the same :embara:. The ASAT 3d suit has no glow the cloth that I had sewn into a bunch of items glows. I will call ASAT tommorrow regarding the cloth and why is it different than the suit. Sucks took a lot of time. Here is one of the finished products that I have to remove the cloth Ambush saddle and mod pouches. The 2 piles of ASAT cloth on the left the suit on the right now looking at the 2 they do look different. Last is an effort to photo in the dark the glow on the pile on the left and no glow on the right. Good to know the suit isnt "uv hot".


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

That's good stuff ATB. Gotta love the learning experience. Did you get the yard of material and the suit from asat or a retailer?


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## ATB (Apr 14, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> That's good stuff ATB. Gotta love the learning experience. Did you get the yard of material and the suit from asat or a retailer?


Got them both from ASAT. Sorry for getting your thread a little off point from UV killer effectiveness to my ASAT cloth. To get back on point I agree with you and your brothers findings from my own that this stuff may help some items BUT anything that has any synthetic materials or waterproofing (which is most hunting stuff) WONT work! I washed and really doused the ASAT 3d cloth 100% polyester with the uv killer and it barely dimmed it.


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## ATB (Apr 14, 2006)

ATB said:


> To get back on point I agree with you and your brothers findings from my own that this stuff may help some items BUT anything that has any synthetic materials or waterproofing (which is most hunting stuff) WONT work! I washed and really doused the ASAT 3d cloth 100% polyester with the uv killer and it barely dimmed it.


From testing the UnderArmor Glove liners and the blaze orange stuff with poor results I would agree with your analysis. Save your money on the UV Killer? aka slight dimmer unless it is cotton just buy the light kit and get rid of the glow stuff.


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## Texbow59 (Nov 30, 2004)

This has been a most enjoyable thread. I'm not sure how long it took me to read every darn post last night but I just could not stop myself. I could almost feel the panic and concern of some through the keyboard. As much as I find this topic interesting and have full respect those of you who have went to much trouble studying this dilemma, I have decided not to worry myself with the likes of UV material, picking up UV bee pollen on my way to my stand or glowing like a blue blob. 

The last 30 plus years of hunting have been just dandy for me and the last 10 way more successful then a glowing blue blob should be allowed to get away with. But come to think about it, maybe that's why those pesky mosquitoes seem to seek me out. I must look like one heck of big bug light.


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## Flatop (Jul 6, 2008)

> we both almost feel bad for the ducks...


 :RockOn: Now that's funny I don't care who you are! 

:nyah: to the ducks.


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

got my asat suit today no glow:darkbeer:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

NHBOONER said:


> got my asat suit today no glow:darkbeer:


Very nice! Where does it say it is made?


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

made in the good ol USA


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## corpsemaker (Jan 24, 2005)

*my results*

This thread is very interesting. I tested all of my clothing/gear tonight with a black light.
I am going to post a list of my results. Here we go........
First thing I noticed glowing orange was the 13 watt fluorescent bulb in my desk lamp. It has a dull orange glow. This is the kind that is an energy saver that screws into a regular socket.
No glow !!
Underbrush leafy bug suit - Shannons head net - outlast gloves - Fieldline bag - Whitewater coat
Very little dull orange glow 
Field and Stream cold weather coat and pant cover all set - Master Sportsman rain suit pant and jacket - Bunsaver seat cushion - Wildview game camera - Fieldline back pack - HSS harness
Glow bright
Allen camo tape - Everything Liberty pants,shirt,coveralls. Wrangler camo jeans - Gates gloves and shirts.
All of my fleece items glowed very little on the tips of the fiber.
There ya go. :darkbeer:


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## Ridley (Dec 28, 2005)

toxotis said:


> I'm not stating the deer can or cannot see UV, but if they did, what biological function would it serve? Obviously hunters in the woods with manmade clothing with UV brighteners are a recent development in the evolutionary existence of whitetails.
> 
> I pose this question not to debunk anyone's theory but to make sense of why deer see as they do and maybe to use it to gain a better understanding of whitetail behavior. Does the ability to see UV light allow deer to detect predators, other deer, food, etc?
> 
> I wonder what would happen if you put a deer hide under the light, specifically the white areas.



I think the answer to this question may be very simple!! The same reason we use blue black lights to see pet urine stains. Seems most biological fluids, urine, semen, etc reflect UV dramatically, it probably helps the deer to see who has been where and how long ago? Ever look at a mouse trail under blue black? It's a fouresing trailas they constantly emite urine. Either the deer still use this to help them keep track of other deer, predators, etc, or it's left over physiology from evolution. I think thats probably the correct answer to your question.

For those that don't believe in this reasearch, I think thats a foolish decision. Nobody is saying that you can't shoot deer glowing like a purple marshmallow. I know I've walked up on people wearing blaze orange before without seeing them till i was fairly close if they were brushed in decent. All this research says, is that, deer see uv reflecting material, at about the same intensity we see blaze orange. Can you still shoot deer? Sure, but the fact is probably true, that if you move, the deer will likely pick up that movement when it's a color that is bright to them, so WHY TAKE THE CHANCE? I ahve spent A LOT more than 15$ on a blb for other things that cerrtainly DIDN'T work, and didn't have any science behind it.

IMO, this is thread of the year, and substantiates all of my first hand experiences


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Ridley said:


> I think the answer to this question may be very simple!! The same reason we use blue black lights to see pet urine stains. Seems most biological fluids, urine, semen, etc reflect UV dramatically, it probably helps the deer to see who has been where and how long ago? Ever look at a mouse trail under blue black? It's a fouresing trailas they constantly emite urine. Either the deer still use this to help them keep track of other deer, predators, etc, or it's left over physiology from evolution. I think thats probably the correct answer to your question.



You know? we could easily prove or disprove this by someone(I will try) to take the time either at a weigh station or with one we wac to go over the gut pile and do a little biology research. I have to admit I never thought about the fact that deer not having a UV filter could maybe benefit them in this manner....very interesting!
To me the focus has always been on not being seen.


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## toxotis (Apr 7, 2005)

> I think the answer to this question may be very simple!! The same reason we use blue black lights to see pet urine stains. Seems most biological fluids, urine, semen, etc reflect UV dramatically, it probably helps the deer to see who has been where and how long ago? Ever look at a mouse trail under blue black? It's a fouresing trailas they constantly emite urine. Either the deer still use this to help them keep track of other deer, predators, etc, or it's left over physiology from evolution. I think thats probably the correct answer to your question.


Very logical answer to my question. Makes me wonder about those who say pee freely from a treestand. Scent issues aside, this could be a tell tale sign of recent activity if it reflects enough UV for a deer to see.


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## OhioBuckMaster (Aug 16, 2008)

OK. I went to Lowes and purchased the Black Light (item #150179) for around $20. I put a pair of 2 yr old camo that came from wallmart (Diamond Cut Brand) and it did light up - not too bad, but it did light up. Then I put my "Ten Point" Camo hat (made in Bangaladesh) and overall the hat was fine EXCEPT for the "Ten Point" stitching across the front that looked like a "*Hey Deer - Hear I am!!" *sign - it is amazingly bright! So, a product may be made out of material without UV enhancers, but the thread used for decorative stiching could have the UV enhancers.

I am sold on this concept and will continue to look for clothing that is UV free (or at least "UV lite").


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

When I see a deer buying a blue/black light from Lowe's, I'll be concerned about it. 

Sure, they may see the glow, but do they care? So far, the deer that I've hunted don't seem to be bothered by it. And I've been at it for several years.

Hunt the wind, don't move when you're being watched and be sneaky the whole time. Using those tactics, I've managed to get pretty close to whatever I was sneaking on, even after being looked over by a wary deer or elk. 

I've been looked at from 30 yards away by a feeding buck. I didn't move. He went back to feeding seemingly unconcerned with the big glowing blob standing less than 100 feet from him. I stuck an arrow in him while he fed.

I've been watched by a bull elk at 20 yards. He watched me for 70 seconds (got it on video). After watching me glow for more than a minute, he simply walked calmly away until my arrow slammed into his heart. Then he ran.

And I'm wearing predator camo made in China which is supposed to be the worst for the glow. 

My son and I sat in a DB blind a few weeks ago on a waterhole hunting antelope. There we were in our big purple marshmallow glowing away for every animal to see for miles around. Yet every thirsty antelope in the valley walked right in and got a drink. Derek shot his buck at 20 yards from the big glowing blob. They must have forgot to bring their black light with them that day.

I think that the UV concern is really overrated. But that's just my opinion. You guys can chase the UV dilemma aroud, I'll go chase the animals.


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## RCL (Apr 23, 2004)

Very interesting thread......:thumb:

My question.........what about a bear? Do they see the same as a deer?......:noidea: :bear:


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## 22feetseat (Aug 12, 2008)

*The fog lifts*

atsko.com costs p-nuts works great get combo and free light also hav dauber for feather fletchings for wet weather hunts i found that stitching in hats and buttons to be a problem great products from this place


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

RCL said:


> Very interesting thread......:thumb:
> 
> My question.........what about a bear? Do they see the same as a deer?......:noidea: :bear:



Yes! bear see the same as deer. All animals, rodents, birds, squirrels even the fishies...


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

mark j said:


> When I see a deer buying a blue/black light from Lowe's, I'll be concerned about it.
> 
> Sure, they may see the glow, but do they care? So far, the deer that I've hunted don't seem to be bothered by it. And I've been at it for several years.
> 
> ...


Mark,
I find it that posting on this thread is like talking to a wall. WH just avoids anyone that ask a real question or states the odvious. I think we should just go make our own pixy dust and then pm all the uv chasers and sell it to them.
Here's our sales pitch...

"can't shoot, thats ok, can't find the deer, that's ok too! Now you won't have to make up things as to why you are not havesting the buck you want! With our magic pixy dust you can kill a P&Y everytime you are hunting. Just sprinkle a little on your head and say the magic words and poof... A deaf, dumb, uv color blind buck will be 10yards in front of you with a arrow already in it's lungs!"

"Only 19.95 plus 4.95 S&H" Banned in Florida

GW


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

Great White said:


> Mark,
> I find it that posting on this thread is like talking to a wall. WH just avoids anyone that ask a real question or states the odvious. I think we should just go make our own pixy dust and then pm all the uv chasers and sell it to them.
> Here's our sales pitch...
> 
> ...


We'll sell it by the truckload! Made in the USA...


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Yes! bear see the same as deer. All animals, rodents, birds, squirrels even the fishies...


And none of them care! :deadhorse I've had animals within 5 FEET of me that didn't seem to mind that I was all lit up.

I've got news for you guys... there is no magic pill.

Develop your hunting skills and forget about the pixie dust. It just doesn't matter. 

I don't doubt for a minute that they see a glow. I've just never had an animal turn and run because of it.

However, Great White and I can offer you a heck of a deal on our Pixie Dust if you're interested. It doesn't glow either. In fact, it's completely invisible. And if you use it, you will be too (and so will your money).


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

Mark,

We should do our own UV study. We will take a picture of our camo glowing and then go kill a animal in the same camo and post that pic also. In fact, I will test my camo and post all of it that glows and only use that camo all season. Then I will post all my kills with me in that same camo. If I do that and prove that good ol hunting skills is all you need, then WH has to lock the thread! Are you up to it Whitetailhunter? I am:wink:

GW


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

Great White said:


> Mark,
> 
> We should do our own UV study. We will take a picture of our camo glowing and then go kill a animal in the same camo and post that pic also. In fact, I will test my camo and post all of it that glows and only use that camo all season. Then I will post all my kills with me in that same camo. If I do that and prove that good ol hunting skills is all you need, then WH has to lock the thread! Are you up to it Whitetailhunter? I am:wink:
> 
> GW


OOOH! OOOH! Let me start!!!

Here's me wearing my glowing predator with a cow elk I shot a few weeks ago. She looked right at me at 60 yards and then went back to sleep. So I walked up a little closer for the shot (around 40 yards).









And here's my son next to the big giant purple marshmallow! He was forced to wait for a 20 yard shot because when the antelope was at 12 yards he was at a bad angle.









And, for the finale, _here are both of us_ in our predator camo. I was sitting right next to him when he arrowed this deer and she was not the least bit aware of us being there.









I'll get the black light bulb and make sure I was really glowing. Stay tuned for more pics!


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

Nice pics Mark. Very cool that you are out there with your son.:darkbeer:


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

Great White said:


> Nice pics Mark. Very cool that you are out there with your son.:darkbeer:


Thanks... we glow together every chance we get!


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## toxotis (Apr 7, 2005)

Its obvious that some people don't believe in UV reflecting dyes affecting their hunts because they still harvest game. Thats fine. I personally don't have any evidence that either side is right, so I'm on the fence, but I will do some personal testing this year. I have older camo that was made in the US and some the was recently manufacutered in China. I open to new ideas and it won't cost me a dime to pay attention and make my own mind up. 

I have noticed in the past ten years of my hunting that deer have been more apt to pick me out of a tree recently then years ago. Could it be that I moved, not high enough, not sufficient cover behind me, deer are more inclined to lookup, all of the above? Not sure, but I wouldn't discredit the UV issue until I have done some further testing.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted by Great White
> 
> I find it that posting on this thread is like talking to a wall. WH just avoids anyone that ask a real question or states the odvious. I think we should just go make our own pixy dust and then pm all the uv chasers and sell it to them.
> Here's our sales pitch...
> ...


Had someone not quoted great white I would not know what he said....but now that I know..let me say the reason I do not reply to your post is because I can't see them your on my block list because you never have anything intelligent to add to the topic. I will not be replying to any of your post because of this...sorry but good day.

Sorry had to edit and add mark j to the ignore list...you two are like a couple of 10 year olds, please for the sake of younger kids that may read this thread pls grow up so they don't think there supposed to act like that.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

*"Sent my glowing shirt to Atsko update"*

Ok for those who have been following this thread. As you know I sent in to atsko one of my cotton shirts that the UV-Killer would not work on.

One of the owners Dan called me today and said that they tested the shirt and confirmed that it glowed when they recieved it. He said they then re-washed it in sport wash and treated it again with very poor results. He said because it is 100% cotton it should be able to block the UV dies that are present but it would not. He said they used an entire 18oz bottel of UV-Killer on the shirt. He said it was pretty disappointing to not have it work and said maybe the manufacturers are using a newer type material that blocks the UV-Killer dies. He was at a loss to why the UV-Killer did not work.

All said and done he is sending my still useless shirt back with a bottle of UV-Killer to try in again on other cloths. He was very appreciative that I spent as much time as I did talking with him as a consumer and I told him if Atsko would like me to test any other products in the future I would be glad to field test other similar products for them.

If at one time the UV-Killer did work then I only hope that they can find a new formula that will once again work on most materials. Any company that promotes and or helps or intentions are to help the hunting community I wish for them to succeed.

.


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

Great White said:


> Instead of taking personal shots at me prove me wrong. I’m just saying what are you trying to prove? Is it that some camo glows under a black light? You have done that and thank you for that hard work. Or is it that deer see the same camo glowing like it does under the black light? If it is you have shown nothing to prove your point. And even if they do, does it bother them? You have not proved that either.
> 
> I’m just saying before we all start going out and buying black lights and throwing away our camo we need to think about what this test prove. I’m not putting you down, I’m just asking questions. If you prove me wrong I will go out and buy the light and throw away my glowing camo.
> 
> GW


I will just quote myself again on this for the people that choose to listen to both sides. If you notice you were the first to take personal shots. From my first post I was trying to add to the disscusion. And yes now I have poked a little fun of it, but WH even when he would read my post would not face the fact that his rersearch had no base to stand on. So here are the questions that need to be answerd. Wait I have asked them a few times I will go and quote it.

One last thing, I said this before I am not trying to prove you wrong for the heck of it. I just think that you are missing some key facts to your study and they need to be addressed before you can claim that we need to re camo our blinds, treestands, and get new camo. If you could address the key factors with science and not opnion then I would do as you suggest, I'm all about doing what needs to be done to kill whitetails, but I am also tired of hunters (sometimes me included) looking for the magic pill.

GW


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

Great White said:


> *If you would read what I posted you would have seen that I acknowledged that deer see uv. We all know that they do*. My issue is that you are suggesting that everyone go and buy a black light and test their camo, buy new camo and re-upholster there blinds and treestands. This is what I'm asking;
> 
> 1. Do deer see the camo glow just as it does with your black light test?
> 
> ...


Here are the questions I have been asking all a long.


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## regnar (Apr 11, 2004)

I believe that deer see UV. But what else in the woods glows? I know that there are natural Occurring elements that give off light, so are there some that give off or reflect uv?

That is another thing that does not seem right to me. I dont have a UV light over me while in the woods. I to have predator and have seen animals look right through me and then go back about their business. Ok it glows under a light but is there enough uv light in naturally occurring light to make it glow? I don't think so and that is based solely on my experience in the woods.

Perhaps some of the material does glow enough to make it visible to animals. and just like scent control, you may not be able to completely eliminate it but anything that you do to reduce it may give you that extra second or two you need when you need it. However I don't think it is nearly as important as scent control and hunting the wind is in the overall scheme of things. 

Just my two scents,

p.s. I will take a double order of that pixi dust!!


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Had someone not quoted great white I would not know what he said....but now that I know..let me say the reason I do not reply to your post is because I can't see them your on my block list because you never have anything intelligent to add to the topic. I will not be replying to any of your post because of this...sorry but good day.
> 
> Sorry had to edit and add mark j to the ignore list...you two are like a couple of 10 year olds, please for the sake of younger kids that may read this thread pls grow up so they don't think there supposed to act like that.


Obviously, if you don't agree with WTAILHUNTER then you're just being childish. I'm officially on his ignore list! How cool is that?

All I was trying to say was that I don't drink the kool-aid when it comes to the UV or the numerous other "break-thru" findings. It's hogwash, plain and simple.

Hopefully if any kids do read this nonsense, they won't buy into it. Leave early, stay late, hunt the wind and be sneaky. That's all you need to be successful in this game. Save your money for some new arrows, kids.

To the rest of the sheep in your flock... get back in line.


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

Great White said:


> Here are the questions I have been asking all a long.


He won't answer it unless you agree with his findings. He's the only intelligent person in the thread! Well, him and everyone that agrees with him. If you disagree you're acting like a 10 yr old! 

We're childish? Ok... pot, meet kettle...


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

I'm rubber your glue, what ever you say bounces off me and sticks on you:nyah::moon:


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

Ok, this is getting rediculous....it's like a fob vs blazers thread...you are never going to convince the other person/s that what you believe is the end all be all and they are wrong. I shoot fobs, why because I like them and see an improvement over blazers in my longe range accuracy and in the wind. I also believe in this UV stuff...why? because I have had very good years back to back and last year was my worst ever....the only thing I changed is my clothing (all glows) and my treestand (glows as well), old stuff does not. Do we know for a fact that deer see us as glowing marshmellows? Well we may never know for FACT but I think there is a good chance that they do and probably don't feel comfortable seeing a glowing blob 25ft up a tree. 
Bottom line is this is a public forum and I appreciate WH taking the time to do the studies put up this post, as it has changed my outlook on things and hopefully improves this upcoming years success. If you don't like it or don't agree with it, STOP clicking on the post and responding..it's that simple.


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

RICE ETR said:


> Bottom line is this is a public forum
> 
> 
> > As long as it is public I have the right to say what is on my mind. If you are going to claim something then you need to be open to questions. That's all.
> ...


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

RICE ETR said:


> Ok, this is getting rediculous....


No, it's been_ ridiculous _ for a long time. I'm just pointing out the obvious. If you don't like it, stop clicking on the thread. It's that simple.


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## the natural (Oct 21, 2005)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Had someone not quoted great white I would not know what he said....but now that I know..let me say the reason I do not reply to your post is because I can't see them your on my block list because you never have anything intelligent to add to the topic. I will not be replying to any of your post because of this...sorry but good day.
> 
> Sorry had to edit and add mark j to the ignore list...you two are like a couple of 10 year olds, please for the sake of younger kids that may read this thread pls grow up so they don't think there supposed to act like that.


so by them asking you questions and not agreeing with you their childish and you block them, sounds kinda childish in itself.


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## the natural (Oct 21, 2005)

regnar said:


> I believe that deer see UV. But what else in the woods glows? I know that there are natural Occurring elements that give off light, *so are there some that give off or reflect uv*?
> 
> That is another thing that does not seem right to me. *I dont have a UV light over me while in the woods. * I to have predator and have seen animals look right through me and then go back about their business. Ok it glows under a light but is there enough uv light in naturally occurring light to make it glow? I don't think so and that is based solely on my experience in the woods.
> 
> ...


yes there are many things that give off uv light.
the deer basically see in uv. its almost like how the predtor sees(the movie)
and you are exactly correct, even with camo on everyone knows you still have to do your best to conceal yourself.


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## Swagg (Sep 13, 2005)

I'm still waitin for mark J to post up those pics of his camo glowing.........


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## acdraindrps (Aug 26, 2008)

I have a question for whoever can answer it.. Can't one use a UV flashlight? I have one that is made up of a bunh of UV led's. It is used to see dramatic color differences in live coral as I work at a saltwater fish store. I would think to check for UV's, someone would use a UV light, and not a black light??

I am kind of in the boat of this is all a hoax. The 8pt I shot last year was 7 yards away from me, while I was sitting on a small rockpile, in a huge blaze orange camo I have dubbed "the pumpkin suit." There was a point when the deer was walking aslmost right towards me. (upwind)


I don't know what to believe, but I do know my 400 dollar camo getup IS NOT being sent back


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## mark j (Jun 18, 2005)

Akr1219 said:


> I'm still waitin for mark J to post up those pics of his camo glowing.........


You'll have to take WTAILHUNTER's word for it (Predator camo is the worst). I've become bored with the whole debate. You see, for a debate to work, the original poster has to be a part of it. However, whenever someone mentions anything about how deer may not even be concerned with UV, they are ignored. 

Therefore, any type of point/counterpoint debate never happens. But then when someone says, "Hey, my camo glows too", WTAILHUNTER responds back like he has made another new factual scientific discovery! "See, I told you the world was flat! Now you can see it for yourself too!" 

Reminds me of Man Bear Pig. "He's half man, half bear, half pig. He's real! Why don't you people believe me? I'm cereal. I'm super cereal! We have to find man bear pig and kill him!"

Plenty of us don't believe it matters. But we're childish, remember? All of the dead animals in my pics prove to me that it makes no difference. I'm glowing like a big purple marshmallow, and I, along with my 2 boys, consistently kill animals. And we're close when it happens. We're not taking 90 yard shots. Most of them are close to 90' and the wind is always in our face. 

That dead cow stared at me for quite awhile when she looked in my direction when I was at 60 yards. Then she turned her head and laid it back down. I continued my stalk. When she stood up in her bed she was looking the other way when I arrowed her. Imagine that. She wasn't the least bit concerned with my glowing presence.

But I'm sure there are plenty of people to keep this thread alive. Pass the kool-aid please, there are plenty of thirsty people standing in the room...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

the natural said:


> so by them asking you questions and not agreeing with you their childish and you block them, sounds kinda childish in itself.


If you have taken the time to read the thread you would see that there are quite a few people that do not agree but at least there adding some kind intelligents to the topic instead of talking about pixy dust and what have you. I stated in the first few lines of the starting thread that this is for those who are on the fence, believe or never heard of UV. It would be nice not to have this thread turn into a romper room topic so the adults on the site can enjoy a good topic discussion. If Great White was a grown up I would have most certainly answered his questions like I do with all others, unfortunately that's not the case.
Lets please get back to the topic...thank you.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

acdraindrps said:


> I have a question for whoever can answer it.. Can't one use a UV flashlight? I have one that is made up of a bunh of UV led's. It is used to see dramatic color differences in live coral as I work at a saltwater fish store. I would think to check for UV's, someone would use a UV light, and not a black light??
> 
> I am kind of in the boat of this is all a hoax. The 8pt I shot last year was 7 yards away from me, while I was sitting on a small rockpile, in a huge blaze orange camo I have dubbed "the pumpkin suit." There was a point when the deer was walking aslmost right towards me. (upwind)
> 
> ...



Have you tried it on your camo? If it's used to detect Ultra Violet then I would assume it would work very similar to a BLB light.  Let us know...


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## buckmark23 (Jul 1, 2006)

*I did not take the time to read every post, BUT...*

This thread is getting out of hand and I did not take the time or have the time to read all the B.S that is on here.

I do have a real question. How do you know if deer see in the light spectrum of a black light? I think we can all agree that deer can see UV but what if it's similar to color blindness? What I mean is what if a UV brightened garment looks like another color but not "glowing" like a comercial says. We can not think that just because we see colors "glow" under a blacklight that an animals eyes see things in a similar way without a black light. There are no black lights in the woods, so how do we know what they see?

Thanks you for your time and research.

Buckmark23


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## poorman (Dec 6, 2006)

Well I gotta say that I am not buying into the whole deal. Personally I think that you and your brother have wasted a lot of time and money on something that doesnt really matter. There are a lot of animals killed every year by people wearing camo that was bought at wal mart and made in china. Myself being one of them. Does your camo glow under a black light? It probably does. Does it really matter? I dont hink so. I will save my money to buy more important things like broadheads and arrows. But thanks for the debate. It was interesting to say the least.


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## Scott99 (Sep 12, 2006)

What I find interesting is years ago I shot the Techno Hunt at a local archery shop. It was outfitted with a black light. You would paint your top pin with luminescent paint so it would glow under the black light. What I noticed was my bow that I had sprayed with my scent killer spray had glowing spots all over it. Also anything like my bow case. Over spray from spraying down. So how might this effect how the deer see my clothes and gear after being sprayed with scent killing spray?


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## Ridley (Dec 28, 2005)

Scott99 said:


> What I find interesting is years ago I shot the Techno Hunt at a local archery shop. It was outfitted with a black light. You would paint your top pin with luminescent paint so it would glow under the black light. What I noticed was my bow that I had sprayed with my scent killer spray had glowing spots all over it. Also anything like my bow case. Over spray from spraying down. So how might this effect how the deer see my clothes and gear after being sprayed with scent killing spray?


I'm looking into this right now. I would bet at least some of them do reflect uv. I will post my findings.



> Originally Posted by Great White
> If you would read what I posted you would have seen that I acknowledged that deer see uv. We all know that they do. My issue is that you are suggesting that everyone go and buy a black light and test their camo, buy new camo and re-upholster there blinds and treestands. This is what I'm asking;
> 
> 1. Do deer see the camo glow just as it does with your black light test?
> ...


Having a degree in biology, I'll try to answer these since it seems to be a hangup. 

1. No, of course not. Black lights allow us to see UV reflection, that we wouldn't normally see. The deer see whatever their brain interprets the color to be. Probably a light blue but because colors are what our brains perceive them to be, and we can't tell what the deer is interpreting it as, we can only compare it to what we see thats close to that part of the spectrum which is blue.

2. According to the research posted, deer can see whatever color their brains interpret this as, approximately as well as we see blaze orange. It doesn't "glow" any more than blaze orange "glows" to us.

3. Some probably do, some don't. Deer are really not that intelligent, they are simply wary. They don't "think" per sey, they react. As deer mature, they become more wary as they encounter more stimuli and as their reaction threshold to said stimuli increases. It's likely that if a deer has not imprinted that a bright colored object in a tree is a danger, then it won't react negatively to it. It's more likely that deer that receive more hunting pressure would have imprinted this more so than those that are not pressured. Much the same way as if we were walking through the woods and saw a clump of something that was blaze orange, just because we notice it wouldn't mean we would identify it as a threat. I have seen some pretty bright orange colored mushroom in the woods, I don't run when I see them...however, if occasionally a bright orange colored mushroom sprang up and shot at me, I would react differently. Likely the same premise.

I don't think anyone is saying that you cannot hunt successfully in even the highest UV reflecting clothing. Most of the camo i tested and had glow, still had a broken up pattern to it, It's likely as long as your outline is broken up, deer will still have issues interpreting you as a human in a tree, or as an area where a raccoon urinated. It's well known that predator camo has one of the better break up patterns to it, so likely the deer are trying to look through you instead of at you, regardless of color. It see's you but can't identify you. However, they will likely be able to pick up on your movement quicker, as I have noticed in my hunting last season when I changed gloves especially. I would be fine until i moved my hands, likely the same as if there was a blaze orange hand moving to our eyes. This also bring up my hypothesis of WHY a deer can see into the UV spectrum, which is to see biological fluids, the same reason we use BLB's to see pet urine stains we can't normally see, and the same reasons CSI's use BLB's to see semen and blood stains at a crime scene. I would imagine it would help a deer find the source of an odor much easier if they can visably "see" whats emitting it. 

Personally, I would take this research and thread and file into your toolbox of hunting knowledge. While it certainly isn't the do all end all research, it's one more piece of the puzzle on deer behavior. You certainly don't need to use every tool on every occasion, but it may one day help you out. :darkbeer:


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## EASTON94 (Jan 25, 2003)

Any further posts that are not directly related to this topic will be deleted and infractions will be issued. Further attacks on other posters in this thread including the kool aid drinking comments for example will be issued a vacation from AT....this is rediculous guys and gals, clean it up and get on topic. '94


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## zhunter62 (Feb 3, 2007)

ok after readding the last post this is a legitamit question. but first i would like to thank all the poeple of this thread for all there reasearch and work. but i do have 3 questions and one statement.

questions first.

as we all know deer see mostly yellow and blue. but have you ever noticed that all the films that show the blue are done in regular color, what we can see. can someone please that a picture of a lit up piece of clothing through a yellow pair of glasses. if everything is already bright to them, what makes us think that the glowing blue will standout that much to them. 

question two. again everytime we see the glowing blue they are in a dark wooded area that make them stand out even more. what does this glow look like in a well lit corn field, where lot of sun light is gonna make everything bright. agian just a thought.

and last question. again the movies are always done in the dark woods, and you can tell that some one is shining a light on them to make them glow, but in the dark woods there is not gonna be that much UV rays because the leafy canopy will block most of it. if you hide in a dark room without a UV light you aint gonna see the glow because there isnt any UV present, if i am wrong please let me know. 

finally my statement. now all of this is about blocking uv rays from getting to your cloth and making you glow. now they make sun screen to block uv rays from your skin, so in all essence you could just smear sun screen all over your cloth and you wouldnt glow, right. now it wouldnt do much for smell but it would block the uv.

ok i am done. if anyone can help me or prove me wrong with science and not just there opionion i would love to listen. if you can show me pictures of what you have seen or done please share, i have looked over most of these post and dont remeber seeing anything about this but you have to emit it alot of stuff to look over. please help.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

zhunter62 said:


> ok after readding the last post this is a legitamit question. but first i would like to thank all the poeple of this thread for all there reasearch and work. but i do have 3 questions and one statement.


questions first.

_



if everything is already bright to them, what makes us think that the glowing blue will standout that much to them

Click to expand...

_Well I think Ridley did a good job explaining a lot of this.... to answer your question I don't think that everything is bright to deer it's just that because they have no UV filter things wether in nature or our cloths that contain UV dies will stand out more then other colors of the spectrum that look dull blue or yellowish to deer. Much like are eyes being able to pick up on the flash of a hunters orange vest at any time of day, even in the bright sun light. orange is at the opposite end of the light spectrum then blue is and because we have a UV filter in our eyes it makes sense that we are more adapted to seeing colors easier on the long wavelength end of the light spectrum(orange)



_



question two. again everytime we see the glowing blue they are in a dark wooded area that make them stand out even more. what does this glow look like in a well lit corn field, where lot of sun light is gonna make everything bright. agian just a thought

Click to expand...

_This is answered in the answer to the first question. Deer don't see the orange like we do, they see it as a yellowish color. you have to remember the only reason deer see orange vest easy is because manufacturers add UV brighteners to the fabric too make the color brighter and also so it will not rot in the sun. An orange vest with no UV brighteners added would be just a dull yellowish color to deer. UV brighteners are used for two reasons to make colors(any color except black appear brighter and to prevent a garment from rotting).



_



and last question. again the movies are always done in the dark woods, and you can tell that some one is shining a light on them to make them glow, but in the dark woods there is not gonna be that much UV rays because the leafy canopy will block most of it. if you hide in a dark room without a UV light you aint gonna see the glow because there isnt any UV present, if i am wrong please let me know.

Click to expand...

 _


Deer have no UV filter and a large tepetum(the reason deers eyes reflect so brightly in the head lights) They are able to obsorb light, any light bright or dim and reuse it almost like head lights to feed and see there way through the woods. All animals are made this way for survival reasons. It's like there eyes take in a light source and magnify it (light is regenerated) then reused.



_



finally my statement. now all of this is about blocking uv rays from getting to your cloth and making you glow. now they make sun screen to block uv rays from your skin, so in all essence you could just smear sun screen all over your cloth and you wouldnt glow, right. now it wouldnt do much for smell but it would block the uv

Click to expand...

_.

It may work, but obviously not in a hunting situation. You will have to try it and let us know. But really is irelevant for hunting.


_



ok i am done. if anyone can help me or prove me wrong with science and not just there opionion i would love to listen. if you can show me pictures of what you have seen or done please share, i have looked over most of these post and dont remeber seeing anything about this but you have to emit it alot of stuff to look over. please help.

Click to expand...

_Proof? the testing of these finding/facts were tested at multiple universitys, if you visit atskos website I believe they list some. If you call they will give you a list as well. These results were not originated by atsko they are just making them known so as to sell there UV-Killer. A university in Michigan and California are just two that I can think of off the top of my head that sedated deer and scoped its eye much like an eye doctor would us in order to find that deer see color and they have both rods and cones present in there eyes. Do a little research and you will find these studys, then you can read them for yourself and not have to rely on what we say.


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## zhunter62 (Feb 3, 2007)

ok thanks for the reply wtailhunter. good luck to all this season.


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## Ridley (Dec 28, 2005)

zhunter62 said:


> finally my statement. now all of this is about blocking uv rays from getting to your cloth and making you glow. now they make sun screen to block uv rays from your skin, so in all essence you could just smear sun screen all over your cloth and you wouldnt glow, right. now it wouldnt do much for smell but it would block the uv.


Actually sunscreen works by combining organic and inorganic active ingredients. Inorganic ingredients like zinc oxide or titanium oxide reflect or scatter ultraviolet (UV) radiation. Organic ingredients like octyl methoxycinnamate (OMC) or oxybenzone absorb UV radiation, dissipating it as heat. Therefor I would expect anything with sunscreen on it to be MORE visable due to the titanium dioxide and zinc oxide reflecting the UV, as the least visable object will totally absorb the uv.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*???*

:moviecorn:


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## madarchery (May 28, 2003)

Well I believe. I have tested my camo with a black light. And I have found my favorite and most lucky camo does not show UV. The stuff I were that seems I get busted or noticed more often does. Good thing my new predator is good to go.

Now I decided to take a walk in the woods. Nothing, and I mean nothing comes close to the glow of our glowing camo. I checked my mounts and the white on the deer do no show uv. The polished horns, None. I even tried some peacock feathers and they dont show under the light. But sure are iridescent during the white light.

So I sure believe in it now.


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## WEEGEE (Oct 13, 2007)

I can hide from deer ,but crows can "pick" you out in a heartbeat.
they "birds" have to see in a different plane.
all alpha does go through the woods with their eyes glued to the sky.
30-40 yrs. ago they didn't,you used to be able to stand on a step ladder or climb up 8-10 ft in a tree and they would never look at you.
Seams to me 25 ' and she watches you now.

now to the orginal poster:
would this "glow" be seen differently if it was high noon as compared to dawn or dusk?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

WEEGEE said:


> would this "glow" be seen differently if it was high noon as compared to dawn or dusk?



Good question and I am going to say yes! Why? because our eyes are adapted to see colors easier at the far end of the light spectrum(longwave length) bright red and especialy orange(because we have a UV filter). Would you agree that it is pretty easy for us to spot a hunter walking throught the woods wearing a blaze orange suit even on a bright sunny day? 
The sun actually helps our eyes pick it up.

A deers eyes are adapted to see things easier at the opposite end of the light spectrum(shortwave) blue range because they have no UV filter in there eyes(because they live in the woods 24-7 even at night, they have to be able to avoid potential danger by seeing at night). So we can assume that deer will pick up anything with UVs just as easy as we can pick up blaze orange. That is what the studys have shown scientist. I think the bright sun will help reflect the UVs in a garment like it does with blaze orange for us. 

Does that answer your question and make sense?


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## madarchery (May 28, 2003)

I wouldn't be so sure on that. UV rays form the sun. At high noon there is alot of it and I would think that would mask your glow. Now when the sun sets you start to turn on like a lightbulb. In fact I think even the blaze orange shows up better 1/2 hr past dawn then at noon. More contrast.


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

buckmark23 said:


> This thread is getting out of hand and I did not take the time or have the time to read all the B.S that is on here.
> 
> I do have a real question. How do you know if deer see in the light spectrum of a black light? I think we can all agree that deer can see UV but what if it's similar to color blindness? What I mean is what if a UV brightened garment looks like another color but not "glowing" like a comercial says. We can not think that just because we see colors "glow" under a blacklight that an animals eyes see things in a similar way without a black light. There are no black lights in the woods, so how do we know what they see?
> 
> ...


My take on all this is:

The sun produces colors we can't see and the deer can. After all, we are predators and they are prey. That's also why our eyes are placed they way they are. Deer see the reflection of colors we can't see reflected off of the UV dyes in our camo. Deer operate on instinct and learned responses by watching each other and their experiences. They may get used to a glowing blind when younger, less experienced deer are not harmed when around an empty blind. Deer in high pressured areas have learned "glowing blobs" 25' up are a threat and they act accordingly. Deer in less pressured areas have not learned this yet. Those who have success are just executing Darwins' Theory; the deer that haven't learned to be wary of the glow are taken out of the gene pool. How many videos have you seen where the deer look straight at the hunter; they ARE seeing something that maybe they haven't learned to perceive as danger, yet are still wary, as is their nature. Am I wrong on my perceptions?
Either way, I'll be buying all cotton military camo. It's all a game of percentages and may be the difference between putting meat on the table verses harvesting a record buck. Scent control or playing the wind, UV or not, I'll take ANY edge I can get. Between the university studies and WTAILHUNTERs' tests I'd say it's a no brainer. Simple logic, for those of you with minds open enough to see it. Fortunately for me I don't have a ton of money wrapped up in glowing camo and understand those of you who would rather not believe their investment was in vain. Excellent thread other than the usual bashing and personal attacks. That's just one unfortunate little cost of living in a free country. Some of us obviously need to learn how to question and debate without bashing.:wink:


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## WEEGEE (Oct 13, 2007)

WTAILHUNTER,

Thanks for the reply and that makes sence .
just for more info on this I just recieved a magizine called"real scent news" fall edition 2008.
there is an article that reflects your finding and veiws on this subject.
The articles is called EYES.
I read it and found that if you ever wash your clothes in store bought soap it's done for life of the garment ....I didn't relize that!
but in the same thing if you treat your garment it too will last the life of the garment if never washed in regular soap.
now as you have stated it only works a little and not very long
also I don't know if this was stated or not but ATSKO offers a "kit"that has 

whitetail sight and scent strategies DVD
UV light
UV booklet
all for $10 @wwwatsko.com

I guess I'm still undecided on this but,I do know birds definitly can pick us out
and after 45 yrs. hunting deer there have been many times where I thought I was well camoed and never moved and they just stopped dead in their tracks and looked once and turned and run.
your findings say that there had to be something to it for this to happen.
now granted I've killed somewhere 300 and every now and then they spot me when they really shouldn't be seeing anything. I worry about the face area more than maybe I should but to me thats the thing they seem to be alarmed to the most.
thanks for this posting it is great mind stirrer


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## dangutting (Jul 10, 2008)

*Dan Gutting, Atsko*

I have spoken to a couple of posters today and read a good chunk of this thread. A lot of really good thought has gone into it. I'll try to follow more to provide timely contributions. 
The recent question of when and where UV has most effect is counter intuitive. We hear about how dangerous UV is at noon and we think that we are seen less under the canopy. UV scatters much more than long colors which travel almost straight line. When you are in full sun you are flooded with so much long wave light that you match the yellow world of the deer pretty well and the blue glow of brighteners is not dominent. When you step into the shadow the long colors are almost all gone but the UV continues to scatter in so the blue glow is relatively more prominent. Reduce light to dusk and dawn and the long colors disappear even for humans but there is still plenty of UV to pwer the brighteners.
Even at midnight on a moonless nite when we are fairley helpless, the deer see just fine because there is plenty of scattered in uv. Only on a nite of extremely heavy cloud cover or rain is their vision compromised. Yet if you lead them into a cave (no UV), they are every bit as blind as we are.
A few days back there were questions about lights. Blacklights and UV lights are roughy the same. The best for for simulating the range of UV energy coming thru the atmosphere to power up brighteners is the 350 BLB fluorescent.
These are available at hardware and homecenter stores. Atsko sells 1 too.
Thread-in black lights are incandescent and do not make short enough light to power some of the brighteners. Most LED UV lights have a very narrow power spectrum and not enough short light. The Atsko LED was custom manufactured for this purpose. Get the right light and you will save money by knowing which pieces you DON'T have to treat.
Sinerely, Dan


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## GrawDawg (Sep 1, 2005)

*ASAT Camo*




WTAILHUNTER said:


> No I have not tested that but it is a good break up pattern. Grab yourself a BLB at a Lowes and let me know what you find!


I tested my ASAT Cotton Bomber jacket & pants this weekend- the pants are fine- the jacket glows!  Now I know why I got busted last fall 15 minutes before legal shooting light when I was sitting perfectly still and the wind blowing slightly from the deer to me! I was wearing that darn ASAT jacket! I must have looked like a blue X-mas light !!  

It's either getting returned or going in the trash............

Rob


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## NateID (Mar 23, 2006)

Do Elk see these UV colors as well?

I got busted by a cow the other day that just shouldn't have busted me. The wind was good, cover was good, etc...

I haven't tested any of my camo, but I'm sure it all glows.

Great thread!


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## dangutting (Jul 10, 2008)

Yes NateID, Elk and all the grazing game are about the same as a deer. No red cones to see long wavelength light that we see: No UV filter to block the UV and blue that we can't see. 
Get a 350 BLB fluorescent blacklite and check it. Maybe only a few pieces glow and they can be fixed with U-V-Killer.
Dan, Atsko


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## Byron (May 14, 2005)

Well, my Atsko LED kit showed up in the mail yesterday (<$10 shipped BTW) and I got to work testing my gear after dark. Good news on basically everything - 2 year-old ASAT 3-D leafy suit I wear on every hunt, boots, fleece handwarmer muff, gloves, etc. I did notice that most of my Summit harness is dead, but the tether glows a little orange (this is the only part exposed when I'm using it). I don't think it's much of a concern, though. I tested some of our "Free & Clear" detergent, and it lit up like a light bulb. I've never used it on my hunting gear and never will now.

I'll see if I can get some pics to post soon.

Best Regards,
Byron


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## Camo Queen (Dec 4, 2006)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> *Yup! done it*.. I was just at the Cabela's grand opening in Maine with my brother and two other friends...we were there with BLb's in hand and checked all the new double bull/primos blinds, they all glow including the ASAT blind! My brother once again re clothed his whole double bull (about 3 years ago) which we use exclusively for turkeys with the army digital camo...:wink: turkeys see Uv and are said to have eye sight equivalent to 11 power binos so it can be even more important with turkeys...IMO
> 
> Even the white paint on decoys has UV...ever payed attention to a deers body language on a hunting show when they have most decoys out. I see the deer all the time come in stomping one foot at a time instead of puffing up in rut mode. Why? IMO it's because of the decoy, it looks like a deer but has UV on it so it freaks the other buck out a little. Stomping of the foot is a nervous unsure about something body languge from a deer. But that is my opinion.


Wanted to follow up on this. I am Jennifer, the ASAT warehouse manager. Our blinds do not glow under UV light, and we have never sold any ASAT item to any Cabela's store. You must have been testing someone else's blind. Thank you for your time.


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## cjnstkslngr (Sep 11, 2008)

Well, I read all of this, and while some of the points seem logical I have decided to just hunt nekked!
Until a deer steps up and tells us what it "sees" we will never know for sure but it can't hurt to err on the safe side.


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## jlamp (Apr 19, 2007)

cjnstkslngr said:


> Well, I read all of this, and while some of the points seem logical I have decided to just hunt nekked!
> Until a deer steps up and tells us what it "sees" we will never know for sure but it can't hurt to err on the safe side.


I have to agree. Im just going to go nekked too and stuff hand warmers in all of my creveses.(sp) LoL

I cant decide whether this UV stuff really matters. No doubt deer probably see it but does it affect anything. Im not so sure of that. Couldnt hurt to add a little if you have the money to do so I gues

my .02


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## ASAT_Pro (Jun 30, 2008)

Camo Queen said:


> Wanted to follow up on this. I am Jennifer, the ASAT warehouse manager. Our blinds do not glow under UV light, and we have never sold any ASAT item to any Cabela's store. You must have been testing someone else's blind. Thank you for your time.


I bought this UV lamp to test what you have been talking about..
Just to see if (ASAT) clothing and blind really glow.

I put the lamp up in my only complete dark room:
My teeth, shirt, the tag back of my shirt, everything in my bathroom glowed.
Except for the ASAT clothing (3D suit, bibs, BDU's, shirt, Essential pants, basic layer, zipmock..) and blind, they did *not* glow!

Of course you can get their stuff to glow too *if* you use the wrong detergent and fabric softeners!

I wash my stuff in Sport-Wash from ATSKO but I cheated on one of my 2 shirts.. 
I used ordinary detergent and that one is glowing, big time. But thats my own fault!!

/Mike


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## swcc (Aug 3, 2007)

I am going to have to check my natural gear.


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## caver (Jul 10, 2008)

I have several pieces of Natural gear. Some ordered over the internet direct from them and some I got at Wally World. All purchased 2-3 years ago. None of it glows except for some sweat pants that got thrown in the regular laundry.

So the "glow" is one less thing I need to worry about this season...


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## ASAT_Pro (Jun 30, 2008)

Here is something I found on Bowtube.com:

http://www.bowtube.com/search/atsko/

There you have something called "Whitetail Sight and Scent Strategies", part 1, 2 and 3.

There you will find how deer see camo and blaze orange..

If the link doesnt work just use: http://www.bowtube.com
and click on atsko under the "Popular Tags" frame on the right.


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## Wbuffetjr1 (Oct 3, 2006)

ASAT_Pro said:


> I bought this UV lamp to test what you have been talking about..
> Just to see if (ASAT) clothing and blind really glow.
> 
> I put the lamp up in my only complete dark room:
> ...


Your bulb says UV-Black. This thread says to use a UV-Blue bulb. I have NO CLUE if that makes a difference or not in what/how things glow. I have not found a UV-Blue bulb yet but I have only checked one place. I'm kind of scared to find out:secret:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

*Sorry I have been busy with work.*

Hi everyone sorry I have not been online at all lately because of work. I would like to say I have been hunting but have not been out in 3 weeks. I probably still wont be on here much but was able to pop on and read a few post. I can't believe there has been over 10,000 views of this thread now..Wow

First *I would like to apologize to the makers and workers at ASAT camo, as well as anyone on here that I may have mislead*, because I did make a mistake when I said I tested an asat camo blind at cabela's. *Thanks to the post by Camo Queen* I went back and checked and the blind I actually tested was *Predator Deception All Purpose Camo*. The white on all the branches glows on this blind.










*Again I am sorry for the mistake...the last thing I want to do is hurt one of the few companys making UV-Free products.*





.


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## Deadfall (Apr 9, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER,

FWIW, I ordered and received an ASAT insulated bomber's jacket recently and it glows like a Christmas bulb under my UV light.  I purchased this jacket by mail with the understanding ASAT didn't use UV brighteners.....I remain skeptical of ASAT not using UV brighteners.

Thanks for the clarification on the blind. 

-Deadfall


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## Haggy50 (Jan 17, 2007)

Tested 07 Sitka Mountain Mimicry, 07 Sitka ASAT, and new 08 Ultimate Elite ASAT and found no glow....


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

Just another added note. My buddy was really successful last year, saw a lot of deer, even recommended the treestand I am using because he has been using the same for a couple years. Anyways he told me I was crazy because he was using the same treestand (summit viper ss), bought from the same place, and he was seeing deer. 
Well the other day he happened to have his stuff in his truck so we checked all it with my UV light....survey says....same treestand, his has no glow, mine did. Also all his camo he was/is using is UV free....all mine last year glowed. 
So once again, I am sold on all this....so thanks again x 345,735,928.50231 :darkbeer:


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## SoutherntierBowhuntr (Jul 1, 2007)

Couldn't help buying the new realtree Ap camo as it looked like the best pattern I've seen in a long time. Hunted from a treestand at dusk wearing my new AP suit, downwind of six deer...despite being well hidden in very dim light, the deer at 35 yds...turned and looked right at me spooking...same thing at dawn with a longbeard...he came up through the woodlot and when he got within 25 yds...looked straight up and picked me out of the tree. Lots of branches and leaves for cover and hidden halfway behind the trunk of an adjacent tree. My new "awesome" camo pattern does glow under a blacklight and I had not been busted in these stands with my old camo while game walked right under me and mooched around for 40 minutes with my old non glowing camo. However, I didn't have the same results in midday light. I think that in bright daylight, the "glow" isn't so obvious as I had three bucks walking together, walk past me at 15 yds.while standing right out in the open. Followed shortly afterward by a really nice 8 point. I guess I am saying that at dawn and dusk the "glow" does make a difference...but in the bright midday sun...not so much. Just my experience...I will be paying attention to the camo that I buy from now on and think that if it makes the difference between seenig and harvesting more deer, its worth paying attention to. When I tested the camo pattern with the blacklight, it glowed brightly on the white branch/stick parts on the pattern and had the "orange" overall glow to the rest of it. I'm convinced it makes a difference.


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## Leafstalker (Mar 30, 2008)

*Day glow.*

I have tried thier products and use the sport wash reguraly,it at least, works.

The printed material that came with the kit led me to check all my camo clothing with my black light. All of my cotton pants and shirts glowed big time! My breathable insulated cold weather gear,pack,hat,gloves never did, lucky I guess.

The UV killer "shifts" the spectrum toward the deers percieved yellow,it still glows under black light but appears more violet to my eyes. I think it would be good for garments with UV material, esspecially blaze orange. 

In my non-UV camo I have seen far more animals than in my other gear, often caught in the open and still able to get away with murder!

Just my own observations.I would seek out UV free clothing, worth the time and effort.


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## Ich Bin (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanks for all the input.

E


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## tembry15 (May 4, 2007)

Can the OP provide the multiple universities backing his studies?

Can anyone prove a blacklight has anything to do with how deer see during daytime?

I can quote 40+ times where the OP and others talk of clothings with UV....NOTHING HAS UV! UV is energy:wink:, and I can assure you, your clothing is NOT creating energy.

You say turkey see it even more so and it thus would be more important. This is where the BS flag goes up for me...If turkey see UV even more so than deer, then UV isnt important. Ive had a turkey within poking distance of my blind (DB uses china material remember)...and multiple turkey within spitting distance of me with nothing but made in china wally world camo on.

Why is it that anyone busted in UV camo is scientific proof, yet anyone successful in UV camo is either luck or simply overlooked in this thread all together. I see this all as an excuse, or explanation for why people are unsuccessful. Nevermind you were moving more than a 5 year old girl who has to pee while on stand, that deer busted you because you looked like a giant purple marshmellow in their eyes.:secret:



Im just confused how the black light reflection translates into deer vision, even if deer can see into the UV spectrum. People must remember, UV dies don't glow unless UV from the sun is present to reflect off of it...meaning UV has already filled the atmosphere at this point in order to reflect off of you.


I hope im not added to a block list because I simply disagree and have a few questions.


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## hunting08 (Aug 8, 2008)

Deer do not see the UV in our clothing, they see the color that the UV puts off. Which would be the blue glow. Always remember.. You can have two of the same shirts and one can glow and one may not. The same goes with blinds too. So those of you who don't believe may be lucky and not have anything that has the glowing blue color they can see.


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

*Uv*

Sorry I will try and find more info for the people who may not believe. I'm busy with school and work. The last website could keep a person busy trying to find and read up all the vision research. 

http://hunting.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_do_deer_see_you 

http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=48 

http://home.adelphia.net/~geffert/deervis.htm 

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1279&context=icwdm_usdanwrc 

http://www.atsko.com/articles/animal-vision-and-smell/uv-and-color-vision-references.html


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

So what do people think about the info on the websites?


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## pierce652 (Oct 18, 2007)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> *UV-Killer* is supposed to terminate any UV dies in your cloths...however we found in our testing that it will only dull(or make less visible) the UVs in the cloths that already have them in the fabric.
> 
> Nothing can eliminate the UVs that are already present in your cloths except maybe dieing the whole garment(this is under investigation)


in the post he states "however we found in *our* testing that it ....

is there a vested interest in the product?

I ask because I am interested and debating purchasing...not to bash.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

pierce652 said:


> in the post he states "however we found in *our* testing that it ....
> 
> is there a vested interest in the product?
> 
> I ask because I am interested and debating purchasing...not to bash.


I'm not sure what your asking? However I'm not associated with atsko if that was your question. In our testing the UV-Killer does not work! I use the sport wash as it is like other laundry detergents that do not contain UV-Brighteners.(code blue, hunter specialties etc). I contacted the folks at atsko because the theory behined there UV-Killer is great and could benefit many of us hunters who already own cloths with UV's. I was informed that when they do a trade show they just grab something that glows, zap it with the UV-Killer and it works, we just have not been able to reproduce the same results. I don't like to bash people or there company and that is not my intent in this thread. I started this thread because my brother and I tested the UV theory in the woods about 5 years ago and have had much greater results when being UV free ever since. In my opinion other products that atsko makes like there sport wash, and sno-seal water proof work great as I have used them and like them, It is the UV-killer that we have not had any luck with at all.

I was glad to see that Dan Gutting joined the discussion. He can answer many of the questions maybe even in more detail that I have already answered at some time or another in this thread.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

blacktailslayer said:


> Sorry I will try and find more info for the people who may not believe. I'm busy with school and work. The last website could keep a person busy trying to find and read up all the vision research.
> 
> http://hunting.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_do_deer_see_you
> 
> ...




That's all good stuff blacktailslayer thanks for taking the time to find these sites and post them.


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## pierce652 (Oct 18, 2007)

Understood and no ill will intended. I was up half the night looking for my old black light from college. We actually would paint murals on the walls with Wisk and they would glow like crazy. But thats another story. I guess the wife tossed it out on me. Being halloween I picked up a small hand held black light at iparty for $7.00.

I will check out the clothes when I get home.


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

*Deer vision websites*

Here are some more websites on deer vision. There are two websites on horse vision that are the same, but can give a person an idea on deer vision. I'm not saying that deer and horse vision is the same. Hope this helps a little more for the people who are interested in this thread. 

http://www.pnas.org/content/100/14/8045.full

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/07/0708_030708_ultravioletmammals.html

http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.genom.9.081307.164228

http://www.journalofvision.org/1/2/2/Carroll-2001-jov-1-2-2.pdf

http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/153/2/919.pdf

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t8107t18v3j8g71r/

http://www.journalofvision.org/1/2/2/article.html


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## Mallards Only (Aug 18, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> I'm not sure what your asking? However I'm not associated with atsko if that was your question. In our testing the UV-Killer does not work! I use the sport wash as it is like other laundry detergents that do not contain UV-Brighteners.(code blue, hunter specialties etc). I contacted the folks at atsko because the theory behined there UV-Killer is great and could benefit many of us hunters who already own cloths with UV's. I was informed that when they do a trade show they just grab something that glows, zap it with the UV-Killer and it works, we just have not been able to reproduce the same results. I don't like to bash people or there company and that is not my intent in this thread. I started this thread because my brother and I tested the UV theory in the woods about 5 years ago and have had much greater results when being UV free ever since. In my opinion other products that atsko makes like there sport wash, and sno-seal water proof work great as I have used them and like them, It is the UV-killer that we have not had any luck with at all.
> 
> I was glad to see that Dan Gutting joined the discussion. He can answer many of the questions maybe even in more detail that I have already answered at some time or another in this thread.


I have to agree with this for the most part. I just bought a new fl. orange cap for gun season and sprayed it down with UV-Killer while looking at it under the BLB. It really didn't "block" out anything. After a couple seconds it was still nearly as hot as the untreated areas.


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## ASAT_Pro (Jun 30, 2008)

Wbuffetjr1 said:


> Your bulb says UV-Black. This thread says to use a UV-Blue bulb. I have NO CLUE if that makes a difference or not in what/how things glow. I have not found a UV-Blue bulb yet but I have only checked one place. I'm kind of scared to find out:secret:


I talked to a lot of guys in the bulb business and they all said that blue or black doesnt matter, they are both the same..!


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## BSeals71 (May 11, 2006)

*Information on Ungulate Vision*

Hey Guys,

Though you might like this.
Please disregard the fact that this is a new product.
The information within the videos is pretty cool.
About ¾ way threw episode three, (Animal Vision Testing) 
they give a cool example of how ungulates see with the affects of the camera. I’d recommend just watching the last two on the bottom right hand corner. 

Here is the website. 

http://www.optifade.com/


Just food for though
-Brian


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## BSeals71 (May 11, 2006)

Thanks for the info.




blacktailslayer said:


> Here are some more websites on deer vision. There are two websites on horse vision that are the same, but can give a person an idea on deer vision. I'm not saying that deer and horse vision is the same. Hope this helps a little more for the people who are interested in this thread.
> 
> http://www.pnas.org/content/100/14/8045.full
> 
> ...


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

BSeals71 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Though you might like this.
> Please disregard the fact that this is a new product.
> ...



That was interesting, thx for posting. I would like to see them continue that segment on deer vision.


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## Big Lew (Oct 17, 2008)

*uvs*

On behalf of most of us, thanks for all the research! Just in time, as I was about to put down big money on camo. I have used only old army surplus camo, and older mixed pattern shirts and jeans. Your research explains why, while stalking, or standing still even when partially exposed against a brush background, I have had deer and black bears walk right up to within touching distance. I will definetly purchase a black light!


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## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

*Ua?*

Has anyone tested Under Armour's camo gear? Searched the thread without much on UA. Good to know the Sitka Gear doesn't glow.


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## BSeals71 (May 11, 2006)

Hey just did some more research and not sure if I came up with anything but more questions.

If you measure he amount of photon energy threw diffraction grading you could possibly match the color of wavelength (nm) of that for ungulates. Then this would reflect the same color filters that are absent within their retinas. It seams as if you would need a helium light or a copper light; instead of using a regular white-light with just a prism filter of another color (the bulb itself). I may be wrong… 

If somebody who knows more regarding the physics of light, please chime in.


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

That would be interesting to know BSeals71. I know when I use a blb light on my old camo clothing; they do not glow purple in the dark. When I shine the blb light on my new camo suit it glows purple except for the flaps on the pockets. I would assume the flaps do not have the UV reflecting dye in them. I hope someone on here knows something about your ques.


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## BSeals71 (May 11, 2006)

blacktailslayer said:


> That would be interesting to know BSeals71. I know when I use a blb light on my old camo clothing; they do not glow purple in the dark. When I shine the blb light on my new camo suit it glows purple except for the flaps on the pockets. I would assume the flaps do not have the UV reflecting dye in them. I hope someone on here knows something about your ques.


Well, we know one thing is for certain: deer do see UV light. 
The thing that I’m not so sure about is the fact that over the counter black-light-bulb will reflect the wavelength colors of UV light. 

The change in color that you see when reflecting a black-light bulb on a piece of clothing that has been treated with UV brighteners may not expose those same UV wavelengths back to the human eye. This is why I’m still not sure if a black light bulb can create a mirror image of UV light.

I tried the experiment with my camouflage clothing using a over the counter black light bulb in a completely dark room and found some pieces of clothing to turn RED. The interesting part is that odocoileus virginianus have red filters within their eyes. Kind of a oxymoron in my opion… But then again I/we may be using the incorrect type of light to determine these wavelengths.


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

Wow I didn't have any of my clothing turn red under the light. I only had one piece of clothing turn purple/blue under my BlackLightBlue light. All the rest of my older camo did not reflect any type of color.


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

Have you tried a helium light or a copper light on any of your clothing? I still have to do some research and find out if those lights would reflect light in the same wavelengths that deer see.


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## FLSwampHunter (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks for all of the input. I'm going to get a black light and test my equipment.


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## wasp (Feb 19, 2004)

Okay, I didn't read every single post in this thread, but it intrigued me enough to go to Lowe's and buy a Fluorescent Black Light to test some of my clothes. The main reason is because I felt that I was spotted a LOT more this year than in the past. There are 2 reasons I think this might be. I did a custom, home spray-paint job on my Summit treestand to try and approximate the Predator Fall Gray pattern. It does look very similiar to Predator Fall Gray. I'm wondering if the paint might have UV brighteners in it, though? The 2nd thing I did different is my wife made me a cotton Predator Fall Gray coverall for my Heater Body Suit, whose Predator Brown Evolution I don't feel is that greatly suited for treestand hunting in the late season. I'm wondering if the coverall fabric had brighteners and those lighter colored areas of the pattern were "glowing". Below are some comments/questions related to a few items I have already tested. I am waiting until it is dark tonight to test out the stand and the coveralls.

1) Are White or near-White colors always going to "glow" under the black light, or does it have more to do with the UV brighteners and/or how old/worn the fabric is? I tested some Predator Evolution pants that I've had for half a dozen years, but don't wear very often at all anymore (don't fit that well). They probably haven't been washed more than twice in the last few years. There's not much solid white, but there is a lot of light coloring in the Evolution pattern. The light colors glowed like crazy, although the darker colors in the pattern did not. Then I tested some Predator Spring Green in Wolfskin fabric that I've had for about 6 years. I wear it constantly, and it has been washed several times this season. No glow at all under the black light. Next up was a polarfleece jacket in Predator Fall Gray that I have owned for about a dozen years. I wear it a lot every year, and it gets washed at least a few times each hunting season. It has faded a good bit, but the pattern is still sharp enough that I feel confident wearing it. It didn't glow at all, even the white parts of the pattern. Last thing I tested (in my initial testing this afternoon) was a fleece stocking cap in Predator Fall Gray. The light colors in the Predator pattern didn't glow at all, but the logo that was on the from of the cap was stitched on in some sort of white thread, and that logo glowed like crazy!

Any comments? I can't wait to test all my other stuff too.


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

My new Bass Pro suit glowed purple/blue under the light; except the flaps over the pockets. None of my other camo gave off the purple/blue glow under the light. The different greens and browns were glowing and not just the very very little white.


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## BSeals71 (May 11, 2006)

wasp said:


> 1) Are White or near-White colors always going to "glow" under the black light, or does it have more to do with the UV brighteners and/or how old/worn the fabric is?


No, not always… as you found out. 
My guess is the white that you tested and glowed dose have UV brighteners within the dyed cotton fabric itself. This can happen with black clothing also. 

The question for me is: Does a regular black-light bulb reflect the same color wavelength as those as UV? 

Again… I’ve found that movement will spook deer more than anything.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

dangutting said:


> I have spoken to a couple of posters today and read a good chunk of this thread. A lot of really good thought has gone into it. I'll try to follow more to provide timely contributions.
> The recent question of when and where UV has most effect is counter intuitive. We hear about how dangerous UV is at noon and we think that we are seen less under the canopy. UV scatters much more than long colors which travel almost straight line. When you are in full sun you are flooded with so much long wave light that you match the yellow world of the deer pretty well and the blue glow of brighteners is not dominent. When you step into the shadow the long colors are almost all gone but the UV continues to scatter in so the blue glow is relatively more prominent. Reduce light to dusk and dawn and the long colors disappear even for humans but there is still plenty of UV to pwer the brighteners.
> Even at midnight on a moonless nite when we are fairley helpless, the deer see just fine because there is plenty of scattered in uv. Only on a nite of extremely heavy cloud cover or rain is their vision compromised. Yet if you lead them into a cave (no UV), they are every bit as blind as we are.
> A few days back there were questions about lights. Blacklights and UV lights are roughy the same. The best for for simulating the range of UV energy coming thru the atmosphere to power up brighteners is the 350 BLB fluorescent.
> ...



Hey guys I added the above post by Dan Gutting to answer some of your questions about what lights to use. Dan is one of the owners and developers at Atsko and you can post a question for him or PM him and ask him to post for all to learn from.

Thx for all the input.


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## mpk1996 (Sep 17, 2008)

tembry15 said:


> Can the OP provide the multiple universities backing his studies?
> 
> Can anyone prove a blacklight has anything to do with how deer see during daytime?
> 
> ...




First off, UV is not energy. its a wavelength of refracted light. I think everyone (well not everyone) is missing the point of the black/blue light. No, you do not glow in the woods. its just a method (using the light) for us humans to see if our clothes contain anything that reflects in the UV spectrum. think about it like this. you have different color shirts right? well there are people who are color blind and can tell the difference between yellow and green for example. lets say we could flash a light at a shirt and the color blind guy would see the yellow glowing and the green not. now he can see "yellow" but it doesn't really glow. so, the deer don't see us "glow" they just see us. and they see in the UV sprectrum very well. 

maybe a better example is from the movie predator. rember the alien saw in the IR spectrum (heat). the guys were well camo'd up and the alien could still see them. then good old Arny got all muddy and that "blocked" his heat signature. so the alien couldn't see him. thats basically what we are talking about here. if your clothing refracts light, the deer can see it, like the alien saw the heat. 

Just like we see colors different at different times, the UV is the same. its not as dependent on the sun to reflect it. so, during the middle of the day, having UV will not hurt as much as at night/dusk/dawn. during dusk and dawn we can't see color well and neither can the deer (the part they see - which looks just like it does to us). and yes, things in nature have UV, but not a tree trunk. 

There are alot of other factors for a successful hunt. you could get lucky and the deer doesn't look up. you could be behind cover (cover means you are behind something, camoflauge means you look like something other than what you are). The final thing is that even with out UV they still may see you. if the see you, hear you, and smell you - you could still be successful if the deer doesn't think you are a threat. thats the biggest "what if" if they think you are a threat. who know, they might be on edge and just run for nothing. or they might be pretty calm and you could make some mistakes and come out a winner. 

regardless, being UV free is importants, just like being scent free. I think we all know guys who have killed deer smoking, not using scent killer, not showering for a week, what ever - but no one ever argues that deer can't smell and not to pay attention to scent control. UV is the same way. Good luck and great post!


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## Nate's Parker (Feb 16, 2005)

mpk1996 said:


> First off, UV is not energy. its a wavelength of refracted light. I think everyone (well not everyone) is missing the point of the black/blue light. No, you do not glow in the woods. its just a method (using the light) for us humans to see if our clothes contain anything that reflects in the UV spectrum. think about it like this. you have different color shirts right? well there are people who are color blind and can tell the difference between yellow and green for example. lets say we could flash a light at a shirt and the color blind guy would see the yellow glowing and the green not. now he can see "yellow" but it doesn't really glow. so, the deer don't see us "glow" they just see us. and they see in the UV sprectrum very well.
> 
> maybe a better example is from the movie predator. rember the alien saw in the IR spectrum (heat). the guys were well camo'd up and the alien could still see them. then good old Arny got all muddy and that "blocked" his heat signature. so the alien couldn't see him. thats basically what we are talking about here. if your clothing refracts light, the deer can see it, like the alien saw the heat.
> 
> ...



Good post:thumbs_up


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

Nate's Parker said:


> Good post:thumbs_up


I agree. +2


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## MW66 (Dec 19, 2008)

In response to Dan Gutting's comments about the t-shirt that was sent in and could not be UV blocked, is anyone else having success on other materials that exhibit UV? Was it just certain types of newer clothing that cannot be treated? I think this is one of the better thread's that I've read in a long time. It's for everyone to make up their own mind, but I think the exploration of the topic is worthwhile. Also, when I tried a bulb from Lowe's, some of my clothes turned a reddish hue? What is that? Is there any concern if whitetails cannot see red anyways?


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## cmillett79 (Oct 24, 2008)

Has anyone tested any of Cabelas Fleece or Suede series garments for UVs ?


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## Stanley (Jan 18, 2005)

Might want to poll real hunters and see what real answers you get on UV effects and non effects. I doubt the sellers of soap that eliminate UV would want to do that.


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## Cmarti (Oct 15, 2004)

Stanley said:


> Might want to poll real hunters and see what real answers you get on UV effects and non effects. I doubt the sellers of soap that eliminate UV would want to do that.



I sent an e-mail to scent loc and they said it worked.......as well, I am sure Atsko would not lie to us:tongue:


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

You may want to read all the posts. There are hunters on here that claim deer have saw them in their UV reflecting clothing. I am one of them.


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

I quit useing the Atsco several years ago about 6 or 7 to be exact .I had not been busted in years for just no reason like say moveing way way too much or makeing a loud noise.But then about a year after I got a new set of camos in the fierst few hunts I was setting very still late one evening just befor quiting time.

I had some doe out feeding in front of me .Suddenly without warning one then two of them swung thier heads around much like they do when feeding to check around and the locked right on me .The wind was comeing from them I hadn't even breathed hard.They walked stiff legged straight to me never taking thier eyes off of me then stomped and blew at me .Ater the hunt I was confused and ticked off to say the least.


Fast farward same thing a few times a year even after I got another new set of camo "same manufacturer" Still busted a few times either very early in the morning or very late in the evening .

So after 6 or 7 seasons had past I read this thread and realized that I for some reason had for gotten to treat my new camos with the UV killer I washed em in the same Atsco soap but had not treadted em.I treated all the camos I owned this year and guess what no repeat of the old get spotted thing .As a matter of a fact it was so cool they were around me when I moved slowly just to see if they could spot me .

On more than one occasion they looked up at me while I would turn my head or move an arm the would not spook they would look a few more times then go on about thier bussiness. I normaly would of justsat there but I wanted to know if it was the reflected UV or just me .I don't normaly move with deer in front of me unless I am killing one but I have to tell you my little impromptu experiment was very telling .I checked my clotheing with a Blak light befor the treatment .They all either had a reddish hue or out right reflected a blueish light. Afterwords The were dull as could be.

I killed my buck at 3 yards under me this year.Did the Atso cause this to happen NO but did it help ?? YES I am sure of it .


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## MW66 (Dec 19, 2008)

Interesting. However, what is that reddish-hue that I get on some of my clothes too? It's not the typical UV bluish white.


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## BSeals71 (May 11, 2006)

OK. I figure just save your money and don't buy camouflage clothing with UV brighteners in it. Then you won't have to buy any of the atsko wash. 

:idea1:


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

Bump 4 good info!


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## jace (Jul 16, 2005)

BSeals71 said:


> OK. I figure just save your money and don't buy camouflage clothing with UV brighteners in it. Then you won't have to buy any of the atsko wash.
> 
> :idea1:


good idea, except I dont believe there are any camo clothes manufactureres out there that dont make clothes without uv brighteners, if so, who are they, I would like to know.


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

jace said:


> good idea, except I dont believe there are any camo clothes manufactureres out there that dont make clothes without uv brighteners, if so, who are they, I would like to know.



He does state to take a BLB light when you shop for camo or go with military camo.


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## Dave Smith (Jun 4, 2007)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> If it was made in china it glows, it's a fact!


OK, I'm starting to see what the "agenda" might be- he he (and actually it's a pretty good agenda that I could certainly stand behind!!!). I get REAL leary when I hear guys saying that treestand hunting got too easy for them, so they had to go to ground hunting for bedded deer (btw, if you're biggest problem is finding a way to make deer hunting a challenge, then why make all your clothes UV free?) Sounds like LOT'S of us are hunting with glowing clothes and a few us actually luck into a buck here and there.
I do like the fact that this whole thing didn't end up with some cure-all product available with operators standing by.
I wonder why they add "ultra violet brighteners" to clothing to "make the colors pop" to humans that can't see ultra violet light reflection? LOL. 
I'm sure in a very short time, all cammo clothing will be boasting "no uv" and everyone will have to sell all of their clothes to clueless hunters and buy all new stuff, like no one has ever killed a deer with their old stuff.
I have come to the conclusion that whitetail hunters "need" the details because there is not much else to do- you can't go scout some new country in the National Forest because there is none in most whitetail country- just leases and private plots of land here and there that you are stuck to. What's left is to analyze the crap out of evetything- he he.
At the same time, we blacktail hunters are honestly learning so much from you guys and reading every word of what you guys say and truly appreciate all that has been advanced in deer hunting- pretty much by whitetail hunters!
As a decoy manufacturer, I can tell you guys that the whole UV thing hit the decoy market like a whirlwind. One group of guys was insisting that decoys that did not reflect uv light were more or less worthless as birds can see colors that we can't, etc. They marketed a paint that refelcted uv light and went hard to the snow goose hunting market- really had alot of guys reeled-in until the next hunting season came around and guys actually used the product. The best example came up: if things that look white to us, don't look white to the snow geese, then how have people decoyed them for years with diapers, paper plates, and white rags?- items that don't look anything like a goose, but are white? If you think it through, it's a pretty good argument.
What's funny about me is that I was drawn to this thread because, though I killed my 4 pt blacktail buck early in the season, I lent my clothing to my friend, who got busted in his tree by five different bt bucks throughout the season, leading me to wonder if it wasn't UV related! let the testing begin................
Dave


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## blacktailslayer (Feb 21, 2007)

Great post Dave. This thread and whitetail hunters have got me thinking of a whole lot these past few years. Other times; I just get out and scout or hunt. A person can't let this all go to their head. Do the best that you can, but always have fun out there in the woods.


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

Cmarti said:


> I sent an e-mail to scent loc and they said it worked.......as well, I am sure Atsko would not lie to us.


What manufacturer would resort to lying in an effort to sell product.

They wouldn't even think of it.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

i have personally used the UV killer and it had hardly any effect on the clothes that had UV glow to them...i now have a UV flashlight and will not buy any clothes that have a hint of UV glow to them cause i personally don't think the UV killer works as calimed it may dim it but it don't kill it or that means it would be dead...i know it didn't work for me, and yes i did exactly as the directions told me too!:beer:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

This discussion will be on-going for years. Some have witnessed the effects of not having UV clothing, others refuse to believe they have been busted year after year by there cloths with UV Brighteners. Believe it or don't, to each his own as long as your having fun hunting that is all that really matters. A lot of guys on here have now done there own testing of the products available and have shared there results, hunters helping or trying to help hunters....lol

One of the post mentioned before long all camo companys will market there cloths as UV free! Mossy oak used to have a label on all there tags saying that very thing but no one payed much attention to it at the time. Now hunters are becoming more aware of UV's again so perhaps you will be right and they will start making all there cloths without UV Brighteners again.


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

I received my BLB flashlight last week. My biggest concern, my blind, didn't glow. My fluorescent orange vest did glow. Also, the letters "TRU" glow on my release strap. My fluorescent wraps glow. The pad on my M/L sling glows as does the camo case it's in. Now I can start checking out some new camo! :wink::thumbs_up


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## mpk1996 (Sep 17, 2008)

Nuge60 said:


> I received my BLB flashlight last week. My biggest concern, my blind, didn't glow. My fluorescent orange vest did glow. Also, the letters "TRU" glow on my release strap. My fluorescent wraps glow. The pad on my M/L sling glows as does the camo case it's in. Now I can start checking out some new camo! :wink::thumbs_up


I think a little glow is ok. i wouldn't get rid of the release just yet. you just don't want to look out of place. again, remember that this is mostly a concern around dusk and dawn. thats when the color variance between OUR normal colors and UV becomes most apparent.

Its kinda like the camo patterns. in direct sunlight, the darker patterns like MOBU don't seem as dark. and in the middle of the night, they blend well with the dark. where guys seem to complain about those patterns is during dusk and dawn (low light conditions). 

here is the hardest thing about this whole UV thing (which i will say, i do believe a deer can see in this spectrum) is that we can't proove it. until someone learns to speek deer, its going to be tuff to prove. But, are you going to argue that being UV free will hurt your chances? I don't think so. If deer can't see in the UV spectrum (for argument sake) then still being UV free will not hurt you. With all the money guys spend on Guns, Bows, stands, food plots, ATVs, tags, traveling, ect - why would you even chance it?


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm not too worried about the few glowing spots I've found. Shoot, I'll just take a sharpie to them! :wink: I'm just glad my blind isn't a "glowing marshmellow". LOL! I'll take any edge I can get.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

> black lights do not represent deer vision.
> The end.


I didn't read all these. It took me to post #74 to hear what I was looking for, all along. People seeking to profit off of clothing reflecting black light (seems pretty 'convenient' how easy it is for the home scientist to test his camo, huh?) come up with a "test" to help sell more of their products?

Brilliant!

I'm sure there's something" to all of this UV hype (and I'm sure mfr's knwo this and creat products with none in them)....but I'm thinking it's not what a lot of people would have me think it was. I feel like I just bought a new car.....and someone's trying to sell me the undercarriage protection plan. 

I'll pass.

And as far a sturkeys/blinds go.....why would it matter if your blind was glowing UV or not? Don't turkeys see in color? Do they see the "glow" (if, in fact, ANY animals see a glow")?


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## bowar (May 14, 2003)

I tested all my equipment and found several hunting suits and hat that glowed,and was surprised that my gold-tip arrow shafts glowed.


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi everyone it's been a while since I've posted and it's almost that time of year for some of us. 

Has anyone made some new UV free clothing purchases this year? or done any of there own testing on any new camo brands or camo patterns that would be interesting to us fellow hunters? if so please share your results.

Thx


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## paohbowhunter (Nov 28, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Hi everyone it's been a while since I've posted and it's almost that time of year for some of us.
> 
> Has anyone made some new UV free clothing purchases this year? or done any of there own testing on any new camo brands or camo patterns that would be interesting to us fellow hunters? if so please share your results.
> 
> Thx


i bought the atsko uv killer because i already invested alot in new camo the last few years, i couldn't justify buying more... wish i had known about the brighteners they use in some garments!!


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## pjwatson05 (Sep 18, 2008)

WTAILHUNTER said:


> Hi everyone it's been a while since I've posted and it's almost that time of year for some of us.
> 
> Has anyone made some new UV free clothing purchases this year? or done any of there own testing on any new camo brands or camo patterns that would be interesting to us fellow hunters? if so please share your results.
> 
> Thx


This is a very good read, makes you think.
Glad I use ASAT camo, they UV test their camo & so do I :wink:


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## martinbows777 (Feb 7, 2009)

Iam going to try that!!


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## kevro7 (Dec 12, 2004)

I just bought some new preadator camo in spring green and fall gray. I've got the Atsko black light and neither of these suits have any UV at all.


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## Heavishot (Jun 3, 2009)

So exactly how much glow is it going to have if there are brighteners? I got the MasterVision cap light from WallyWorld and none of my camo really glows. It looks purple but I'd think It's going to look that way if you shine a purple light on it. Just like it's going to look red when you shine a red light on it. 

I check my hunter orange and it looks electric. I checked some regular clothes and many of them glowed, especially anything white. Is this light sufficient for checking or do I need something better?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Heavishot said:


> So exactly how much glow is it going to have if there are brighteners? I got the MasterVision cap light from WallyWorld and none of my camo really glows. It looks purple but I'd think It's going to look that way if you shine a purple light on it. Just like it's going to look red when you shine a red light on it.
> 
> I check my hunter orange and it looks electric. I checked some regular clothes and many of them glowed, especially anything white. Is this light sufficient for checking or do I need something better?



I am not familar with the MasterVision cap light! Is it a BLB light(should say BLB on the bulb itself) Also if you have a 6" light you should hold it 6 inches from the garment. if it is an 18" light it should be held 18 inches from garment and so on. You really can't mistake clothing that glows just look at your jeans to get the idea.

I'm glad to hear others have found camo with no UV Brightners as well.


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

I found out all of my new camo and treestand padding glowed..which is why I only saw one deer the season before last....at least that's the only thing that changed in my set-up. This past year I switched out everything and recovered my stand so no UV glow. back to seeing tons of deer again. Had 15 does under my treestand at once the last day. 
Thanks for all the info and bringing this whole UV thing to my attention.


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## BROX (Sep 29, 2005)

I purchased the UV Killer and sport wash before even reading this.Headed out tomorrow to get a black light.


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## lostonetoo (Nov 6, 2008)

Okay, I found a black light bulb at home that we use for Halloween, and looked at my camo, some glowed reddish brown, and others didn't. So the question I have is if it glows reddish brown is that a bad thing or is it just the blue glow we are trying to see if the camo has?

I hunted elk wearing this camo that is reddish brown for the last two years (From a tree stand and ground) and they seem not to be bothered by it at all. Had elk and mule deer within 5 yards looking up at me and didn't even react to me being there. I didn't move. Inaddition, I have had whitetail within 10 yards and looking up at me and just kept on doing what they were doing, with no reaction to me being there.

Also is there any other "UV Killer" on the market that anyone else has found to decreases the reddish brown glow?


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

lostonetoo said:


> Also is there any other "UV Killer" on the market that anyone else has found to decreases the reddish brown glow?



I would not worry about the reddish glow my camo does that as well but it is not UV glow so the deer do not see it. I wish I knew why some camo cloths have a reddish glow and what makes that glow but I do know it is not like the glow given off by UV brighteners.

The only camo I have that is completely dead in the BLB light is my military camo. But once again I do not get busted with any of my camo.

We need to dig around the science behind this reddish hew...


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## LGN (Jan 9, 2007)

*ASAT Tees*

I received 3 long sleeve Tees in Asat. Black light test results revealed that they were not UV free. The glow was very apparent!!!! All 3 are in route back to Asat.


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## ropadop (Aug 22, 2002)

X-RINGER said:


> i have personally used the UV killer and it had hardly any effect on the clothes that had UV glow to them...i now have a UV flashlight and will not buy any clothes that have a hint of UV glow to them cause i personally don't think the UV killer works as calimed it may dim it but it don't kill it or that means it would be dead...i know it didn't work for me, and yes i did exactly as the directions told me too!:beer:


My use of Atsko UV killer has been successful on cotton materials that absorb the UV killer. It did not work well at all on a nylon snow camo suit with a water repellent treatment. So, your mileage may vary depending on the material.


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## MarcAllyn (Aug 24, 2009)

Hi,
I found you guys researching this very thing. I've got a question I have not heard mentioned. 
I was looking at my clothes under a black light. I found my favorite things were actually various shades of red (using a incadescent blacklight bulb). There was a house plant my wife had in the bathroom and it was red. So I went outside and picked a few different plants. They were various shades of red too. What is with the red? If red is the color plants are, is my new camo good to go.

In a discussion with a friend, we concluded any glowing whether it is red, blue or yellow could get you busted. Why Atsko is the only product out there puzzles me. Why Walmart or other big name stores don't sell it anymore puzzles me.
I think UV is something to consider, but unless you can use the same filters the deer do, how can you say what is true or not.
Please let me know about the red if you have any info. Why do plants glow red and is it bad for my newest clothing to glow red?
Conclusion: No Glow is good and Black and Grey camo with no glow is best. Here is a cel phone pic of it.

Thanks,
Marc


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

My buddies treestand as well as his scentlok stuff glows red but not the bright blue all the stuff I had trouble with did. He has killed tons of deer with his stuff while I had the one bad year when I switched camo/treestands and glowed blue..since switching to no glow/red hue...seeing deer again, so I would say you are ok. 
Interesting info about the plants glowing red. I would like to walk through the woods to see what else glows, I am sure scrapes with urine in them do.


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## jmm83164 (Sep 29, 2008)

*Dont know if this helps*

When I buy new camo I wash it in Chlorine Bleach to fade it because I always figure new camo was to bright. Then I wash it in one of the scent free detergents and hang dry them outside . I let them hang out in the sun for a couple days.
Just me but I always fade my camo.
Mike


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## MarcAllyn (Aug 24, 2009)

*Why are we researching this?*

I beginning to think any actual glow may not be good. But considering low light conditions......... The blue glow would be more obvious. 
The reason I'm writing is I have been busted many times the last couple of years and before this I was on top of the game.
I think this UV thing may have a small effect but the larger part is my ability to seek good cover (be in the canopy) and the strategy to relocate my stand.
it seems that the deer are getting smarter.
I'll try the chlorox thing and retest.

Thanks,
Marc


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## studlydj01 (Jul 29, 2008)

I have also been testing and nothing i test shines blue like on the atsko website but some of the camo like realtree max-4 do have a whitish glo but im wondering if its just picking up the light colors in it. My bass pro endura skin and my scentlok in realtree ap has a orange color to it not a glow so i guess scentlok doesnt have uv


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## MarcAllyn (Aug 24, 2009)

What color are live plants with your black light?

Marc


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## eyebrowcounter (Mar 15, 2009)

I just got atsko's hand held light and checked all my scentloc and nothing glowed. Just lucky I guess, all my blaze orange light up like a xmas tree though.


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## MarcAllyn (Aug 24, 2009)

All my blaze orange light up too except the plastic one I got for rain. It doesn't light up. I'll be using that.

Can you test live plants for me. I really think we are safe with anything that gives simular results to things in nature. We may even use this for our advantage in conceilment.


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## RICE ETR (Oct 15, 2007)

PM for UV free fabric. Just ordered some to redo my treestand


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## MOBIGBUCKS (Aug 12, 2006)

Hey guys,

I've been reading through the thread and I bought a black light bulb tonight. most of my stuff did not glow but I did have a couple that were unmistakeable. I could not find the "Blue" black light but I found these black light bulbs and used them in a pitch dark room. Is my light ok or do I actually need to find a "blue black light"??? Thanks for the help


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-159767/Detail

So will this bulb work to check with? I got tired of reading through fighting to look at every post.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

What about my ethiopian made scent blocker pants?


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## woodsman 365 (Jan 2, 2007)

When I bought a new bike at the polaris dealer in 1999, I saw a parka in the clothing section. It had 1/4" fleece, soft, extremely quiet and great looking camo. This coat is American made. I have hunted with this coat for deer and bear with good success. My concern is when a photo is taken, the coat appears almost white. Anyone know why that is and is it a concern.


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## mobhuntr (Aug 5, 2009)

*Scentlok*

My scentlok was made in vietnam, probably has uv brightners


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## Big Jim (Sep 7, 2009)

Now I know why those Aimish shoot all the big bucks! They make their own clothes.:set1_rolf2:


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Sorry I have not been on but once since our hunting season here in NH opened in Sep.

Guys if you read thru the thread it answers all the questions your asking. I would not use bleach at all....lol bleach is a dye. Deer do not see the color red! Any camo can glow, just because you bought one scent-Lok suit that did not glow does not mean that all scent-lok will be UV free. And a black light will work but the studies done show that the blue bulb black light(350) is closer to the wave length that deer see in. It will say 350BLB on the bulb. Visit the Atso website for more info on the lights. No I am not affiliated with atsko.


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## francois (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi guys,

Thanks to the good reputation of the ASAT 3D leafy suite I've bought some of 3D ASAT stuff which I recently tested and it glows a lot (as seen on the pictures below).

I'm disapointed... does it concern only the 3D stuff or also their First Lite stuff (which I would like to buy) ?

I would like to be able to use ASAT products which seem to me nevertheless good quality. 

I will contact ASAT to know what they can do to repair this.
Keep in touch.

Francois


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

That is purdy. I want me one of them there blue camo suits. 

I guess that one of the bb lights might come in handy after all.

It looks like the black dye does not glow even though the whole suit must be treated with UV brightners. I am thinking that a black blob would be better camo.


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## Cajun83 (Sep 30, 2009)

francois said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Thanks to the good reputation of the ASAT 3D leafy suite I've bought some of 3D ASAT stuff which I recently tested and it glows a lot (as seen on the pictures below).
> 
> ...


They will likely replace it. Did you buy directly from ASAT or from a dealer?


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## francois (Nov 14, 2006)

Cajun 83:
Indeed we bought it directly from ASAT (never used) and we've just send them the pics.

Jim p:
This may be a unique version for night clubbers :RockOn:

We are waiting for their answer to solve the problem, it's difficult to use it in the woods;

You can be sure that we'll keep in touch to inform you :typing:


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## Cajun83 (Sep 30, 2009)

francois said:


> Cajun 83:
> Indeed we bought it directly from ASAT (never used) and we've just send them the pics.
> 
> Jim p:
> ...


Did you order the one for $140?


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## francois (Nov 14, 2006)

ASAT claims to be made with UV free material for their hunting stuff. 

But if you have ordered something that proved to be the opposite, ask them to make a exchange. A company like ASAT should do this without problem.

We didn't have an answer from ASAT for the moment but we will tell you the end of the story.

Take care.


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## shawnsphoto (Apr 13, 2007)

Hey guys a commercial photographer adding in here... If I were to use a colored light (stage gel) or a black light I would influence my subject would I not. It seems like the glow is happening in the lighter areas. This would be natural as the would reflect the most light. How could they not. Unless a camoflague is all mid-tones it will/ha to reflect light in varying degrees. I think there is some validity to all this. I guess my real question is... Should the camo used be less defined, or more defined based on where you hunt. If you hunt in Pine trees, defined limb like patterns would be good.


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

TTT for good info!!!


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## B&C_less (Jun 10, 2008)

If humans are unable to see UV, why use UV brighteners in our clothes?


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

It subtly enhances colors. Most every cloth made in China will have them added, including Camo...


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## B&C_less (Jun 10, 2008)

Nuge60 said:


> It subtly enhances colors. Most every cloth made in China will have them added, including Camo...


Thanks


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## useyourbow (Jun 2, 2010)

This thread gave me a headache.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Great info...


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## talon1961 (Mar 13, 2008)

I guess I'll have to go to my science lab and get my uv light and test my camo now. We tested lots of things in class. You'd be surprised how your teeth glow if you use a "brightening or whitening" toothpaste!


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

If you go to buy one, it's actually called a Blue/Black light...


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## jlh42581 (Oct 21, 2009)

asat has two grades of camo, they had a nasty UV run and sell a version for paintball that has UV, the other full price suit should not.


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## tenzoxt (Aug 21, 2006)

Wow. I just went to the Cabelas website and read all the reviews. Looks like 95% of users gave this product 5 stars. I'm gonna have to try some this year. Won't hurt, as its only $10.


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## Bucks & Bulls (Jun 8, 2011)

Great info.


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## B&C_less (Jun 10, 2008)

tenzoxt said:


> Wow. I just went to the Cabelas website and read all the reviews. Looks like 95% of users gave this product 5 stars. I'm gonna have to try some this year. Won't hurt, as its only $10.


What cost $10?


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## tenzoxt (Aug 21, 2006)

B&C_less said:


> What cost $10?


http://www.cabelas.com/scents-scent-eliminators-u-v-killer-1.shtml


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

If you had read the information you would know his tests showed it does NOT work, but go ahead and drink that cool-aid...


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

now from my understanding, deer only see the "glowing" UV from clothing in very low light. once the sun is up, clothing no longer glows. so "glowing" UV clothing only really effects about 20-30 minutes of your morning hunt and 20-30 minutes of your evening hunt. anything after that is too dark to legally shoot, atleast in Florida (regulations say hunting is only allowed 30 minutes prior to sun rise and 30 minutes after sunset).


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## Nuge60 (Jan 23, 2008)

Actually, I believe the glow is there all day long but is somewhat more prominent in the twilight hours and there may even be some glow after dark. I've only read this thread 3 or 4 times and it's not my research so I may be mistaken... But I DO believe!!


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

so all the black light pictures people posted to demonstrate this was done in a well lit room or lights off (except for the black light)? i'm not trying to blow theories, just trying to gain a better understanding.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Got my BLB flashlight today. Checking my camo later...


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

I think all my camo has UV...


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## John0341 (May 25, 2009)

Ttt


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

I haven't read the entire thread, but tested my cloths. Most cotton glowed, the darker the camo pattern the less glow. Wool and fleece were dead flat, no glow. I like fleece because it's quiet, soft, durable and relatively inexpensive. I'm going to choose fleece where possible.


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## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Corona said:


> Think about all the huge ground blinds out there looking like a glowing marshmellow... Double Bull is made in China...anyone shine there black lights at the blind and take a pic?


corona; you are absolutley right. it looks like a glowing marshmellow that doesn't move, and deer get used to just about anything. Take that same blind and move it while a deer is present. It will be gone in a flash.


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## Gadestroyer74 (Jul 7, 2007)

I got alot of useful info from this thread glad I found it years ago thanks for taking the time to show us your findings and thoughts some appreciate it


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## WTAILHUNTER (Jul 3, 2008)

Well I'v been gone for a while. It was nice catching up on some other peoples experience. I'm glad some have benefitted from our findings and appreciate the info.

Sorry i was not able to get back to the many people who had questions....


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