# Going pro



## deadx

I guess if you have to ask that question in the first place you will never know the answer even if someone gave you their version of their reason why they went pro.......


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## Jim Pruitte

The shooting times are better..


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## kjwhfsd

No it's a serious question. Not a what can I get out of archery. I'm a active level 3 (community coach). I already have a archery business so I already get to write off a lot on taxes. I shoot scores that would put me in the middle of the pack. Just good enough to be out of the money. So I would be donating to the pot. I shoot against local pro's and shoot for money when I can. I have been thinking about it for a while. Just wondering if there is something I'm missing.
Thanks for some responses


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## Bobmuley

If you already have the sponsorship, expenses, and taxes covered about all you'll get is a better resume, a card, and better representation in the NFAA.


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## Mike2787

It forces you to compete against the best every time, not just when you choose. If you are a serious competitor and have a competitive game, it is where you should want to be. Competing against the best all of the time will only make you better. You get to shoot with some great groups.


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## kjwhfsd

Thanks for giving some great answers. As for shooting against the best I shoot (with limited time off and finances) as many top level shoots as I can this year the AZ cup, Redding, national FITA field, and NFAA outdoor nationals are on the list


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## FV Chuck

At this point "going Pro" is a mindset. It means you've decided that you only want to compete at the highest level. It also means your willing to loose...a lot.

Going Pro or Shooting Pro isnt about winning (at least for me) It's about deciding that I want to push myself mentally and physically to give it the best I can every time. It's not about "what's in it for me". If that's the mind set...what can I/you get out of turning Pro? - IMHO your looking for the wrong return. You already show commitment to the game by your coaching creds, by your local ownership of a shop and your participation. Turning Pro (in it's current format) wont do anything for you other than force you to raise your game, hold yourself to a higher standard, and shoot against the best in the business....

DeadX had it pretty close, I cant tell you why you should go Pro and I'm the chair, I dont think anyone can really. Every single person I talk to has a slightly different response and reason. If it's for money, fame, glory, sponsorships, bragging rights, or a sign on the wall at the shop then your stepping up for entirely the wrong reasons. Unless your one of a very small handful of people...all of that along with the money and fame are just not there. 
If it's for you, deep in your heart, your soul, your mind ...your wallet (LOL) ...then it's probably the right step. Only you will know when it's time. 

I would encourage you to step up, try it and see if it's where you want to be... as others have alluded to there are some "fringe" benefits in preferred lines times and such, personal representation with the NFAA, and some other intangible kinds of things that go along with being a Pro on the tour...but it comes with a price tag. Higher entry fees, more travel, more commitment...it's very personal decision. 

I can tell you that the people I have shot with over the years on the Pro line are some of the coolest cats on the planet with a stick and string and it's usually worth every cent of the price of admission.

Hope to see you on the ProLine soon-

Chuck


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## kjwhfsd

Thank you for the responses they are what I was looking for. I have been kicking around going pro for a while nothing new has been brought up in this thread. That is good I did have have it mostly figured out. Now have to figure out if I have the time to do it. Again thanks yes Chuck they are some great people. Then there are some. You just may see me on the pod line


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## SteveID

I did it for many of the same reasons as Chuck. I want to compete with the best and push myself. On my best days, I am capable of very good scores. On most days, I shoot well enough to finish middle of the pack. If I can push myself to get better, I know I will be able to up my consistency level, and hopefully the high scores will come around on a more regular basis. 

Most guys in the pro class tend to have a lot more fun with the sport within competition. Seems to be more of a brotherhood.


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## moeman1

Mike & Chuck have great reply's but there is no great benefit to going pro. You have to be in the top three in all event to brake even. I have seen some of the best shooter of all times quit, but of working harder then you every thing for just for a paid day that doesn't even brake even for all the time spent. It is getting better in the last ten years, but it needs to change alot to grow much more. Just keep shooting & enjoy the sport you will know when you are ready. Maurice


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## FV Chuck

Maurice...

Your a Pro?


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## bigGP

FV Chuck said:


> Maurice...
> 
> Your a Pro?


pfffffft no


kjwhfsd- Maurice's is the mentality NOT to have. there is no benefit if you don't go anywhere anyway? Going pro in archery is not about $$$$$$. If you thinking you are going to get into archery to get paid you will end up very disappointed unless you happen to be one of the VERY few archers (on earth) that can make a living JUST doing archery. If you want to be the local big fish in the small pond that has some sort of inflated sense of how great they are???......cool bro rock it...THEN there is no benefit, but just know that what Mike(One of the greatest Field archers this sport has ever seen) said is right on point! Its all about competing with some great guys in some great groups against the very best this sport has to offer! Being the big fish in a puddle is not near as satisfying to me as swimming in the ocean and knowing you either got ate....or held your own against the REAL big fish (Its all fun and games until Jesse,Levi,Chance,Reo,Wills,Woody,Braden etc stomp a mud hole in your hind end....happens to me quite often) Chuck is making some great headway in getting more legitimacy in regard to what being a pro really means. In the mean time think about this............. there is alot of us Pro's that go to pretty much every Pro shoot on tour..... Yet we NEVER see about...oh... HALF of the registered Pro's in this country? Having the card and being a pro are two totally different things IMO. Not everyone can afford to go to all the shoots, That is obvious. but if you take mo's advice and keep shooting until 'You know your ready"....... how will you know your ready??? By shooting a score you THINK is at the Pro level? Pounding all the folks back home? (been there done that...some people just love to stay an amateur to rack up awards,trophies and fake resume's when they should have stepped up long ago) How much good does it do our sport when the local hot shot keeps pounding every young guy coming up into submission??? Ok we get it...you are the best in your area, Turn PRO and let the next guy have his run as amateur big dogg? Staying a Am and thumping people does NOT grow our sport. Most of us where in that position and stepped up for the betterment of the game....Shooting state or local shoots in the Pro class by yourself sucks balls....but it is necessary for growth. Until you are on the line shooting as a pro, against pro's that score doesn't mean anything. Just the fact you are asking means you are already a step ahead of Maurice. Every time you shoot in a pro group against the best will be a learning experience.... win or loose, you will get better every time bro. If you come to a shoot with the mentality "I have to Break even....or i have to make $$$$$".....you already lost....in more ways than one.


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## blueglide1

bigGP said:


> pfffffft no
> 
> 
> kjwhfsd- Maurice's is the mentality NOT to have. there is no benefit if you don't go anywhere anyway? Going pro in archery is not about $$$$$$. If you thinking you are going to get into archery to get paid you will end up very disappointed unless you happen to be one of the VERY few archers (on earth) that can make a living JUST doing archery. If you want to be the local big fish in the small pond that has some sort of inflated sense of how great they are???......cool bro rock it...THEN there is no benefit, but just know that what Mike(One of the greatest Field archers this sport has ever seen) said is right on point! Its all about competing with some great guys in some great groups against the very best this sport has to offer! Being the big fish in a puddle is not near as satisfying to me as swimming in the ocean and knowing you either got ate....or held your own against the REAL big fish (Its all fun and games until Jesse,Levi,Chance,Reo,Wills,Woody,Braden etc stomp a mud hole in your hind end....happens to me quite often) Chuck is making some great headway in getting more legitimacy in regard to what being a pro really means. In the mean time think about this............. there is alot of us Pro's that go to pretty much every Pro shoot on tour..... Yet we NEVER see about...oh... HALF of the registered Pro's in this country? Having the card and being a pro are two totally different things IMO. Not everyone can afford to go to all the shoots, That is obvious. but if you take mo's advice and keep shooting until 'You know your ready"....... how will you know your ready??? By shooting a score you THINK is at the Pro level? Pounding all the folks back home? (been there done that...some people just love to stay an amateur to rack up awards,trophies and fake resume's when they should have stepped up long ago) How much good does it do our sport when the local hot shot keeps pounding every young guy coming up into submission??? Ok we get it...you are the best in your area, Turn PRO and let the next guy have his run as amateur big dogg? Staying a Am and thumping people does NOT grow our sport. Most of us where in that position and stepped up for the betterment of the game....Shooting state or local shoots in the Pro class by yourself sucks balls....but it is necessary for growth. Until you are on the line shooting as a pro, against pro's that score doesn't mean anything. Just the fact you are asking means you are already a step ahead of Maurice. Every time you shoot in a pro group against the best will be a learning experience.... win or loose, you will get better every time bro. If you come to a shoot with the mentality "I have to Break even....or i have to make $$$$$".....you already lost....in more ways than one.


Very well said Greg.


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## field14

blueglide1 said:


> Very well said Greg.


I agree; very well stated! Same goes with league competition by "Pros" or "wannabee pros"...they don't like handicap systems because "I can't win all the time, and it is ALL about shooting the 300....if you allow scores with handicap to go over 300, then I won't win all the time when I shoot a 300 in league." Yeah, right...but, since leagues are NOT centered around the PROS nor the "local hot dogs", but rather for the fun and level playing field, the only way to keep leagues going and to help prevent a high drop-out rate is to have the handicap so people CAN go over 300 with their handicap score. Afterall, that lasts once, maybe twice, because said handicap drops like a rock the following week.

I tell the local "Pros" and "hot dogs" that shooting a league that has a handicap system is just like preparing them for a tournament....in that in a tournament, you CANNOT MISS either....so....train yourself in league by using the league as a training ground...DO NOT MISS, cuz if you do, then, just like in a tournament...YOU LOSE! Seize the opportunity...and so what if a guy improves his/herself by over 20% from one week to the next? They'll have to do it AGAIN; otherwise, they, too, lose the following week!

Too much emphasis on winning at all costs and having bragging rights, and not enough focus on self-improvement by getting on that shooting line with shooters that have more prowess than you, or putting yourself into pressure situations where you cannot miss or you lose.

Gotta keep the up and coming shooters interested and participating...cuz if we don't, then even the indoor game is going to die out or have limited participation. We must have a blend of both...."pro" and "non-pro" to keep the events viable.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## moeman1

Chuck i'm not a Pro be i shoot up with them in the west coast. I had the same question in mind back in 2002. I said No i will to stop when i was Spending more money then i was make back in 2002 & seen more pro back off. For Greg Question i will bet you money anyday just be ready to pay up. I rather have fun i just relax. Thank Maurice


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## reylamb

In the ASA you also get a free pass for the practice range and VIP parking!!!!!! Along with the tougher competition, tougher ranges, etc,etc,etc.


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## bigGP

Mo- Don't be a tourist, if you want to shoot with the big boys then step up and do it.... Don't be a satellite Bull and try to work the edges. I bet all the time with Jesse,Chance,Levi,Shane etc...I have been known to win one now and again...not all the time though. LOL Its about the CHALLENGE! Sitting on the sidelines throwing out challenges to people in a class you refuse to participate in is....well...... way too common in our sport. 

On a side note- I will accept your wager, anytime, anywhere, any game. let me know and i will be there.

Now on the Pro benefit topic- Yes, right now it does boil down to better shooters, better parking and courses in 3D, better shoot times, better sponsorship's and other little things....Chuck is working to improve these benefits though and he is doing well. The bottom line is this.............alot of people DON'T want to COMPETE...they only want to WIN....and some wont even shoot if they don't think they can win. My friend Maurice is a perfect case in point- he is more then willing to try to throw down a challenge to me from the sidelines......but he wont participate or challenge anyone (Even me) from within the ranks? NOT being a Pro and loosing a challenge to a Pro is a built in excuse...If you win You DA MAN! WHEN you loose.....Your not a Pro you weren't suppose to win. Our sport is full of people that don't want to compete for real.


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## moeman1

Ok Greg will see you in redding, Anytime, also need to talk will call some when i'm got more time, Thanks for Money LOL Maurice


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## N7709K

Greg, chuck, what do you have to say to a younger guy?

I've more or less made up my mind on the issue but I'd like to hear what you would have to say


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## bigGP

moeman1 said:


> Ok Greg will see you in redding, Anytime, also need to talk will call some when i'm got more time, Thanks for Money LOL Maurice


LMAO come on with it MO!!! ANYTHING I can do to get you back in the game is worth it. LOL ............Including taking your money. baaaahahahahahahahaha


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## bigGP

N7709K said:


> Greg, chuck, what do you have to say to a younger guy?
> 
> I've more or less made up my mind on the issue but I'd like to hear what you would have to say



What i would say?............... focus on the right part of the story! Don't worry about what He or they are doing....or saying (LMAO). Focus on you doing what you need to do (From executing the shot, To breathing, to shooting an event in the guest class by yourself so the guy you whoop by 10 usually can taste success for a minute), 
PAY ATTENTION... to what the pro's that will be in your group are doing (For tuning,holding,mental game,fishing,hunting, sex.....oh wait,......not that one....Booche) because everyday you will learn something if you are paying attention. Don't worry about where you place right now...Just take care of you, Its ok to get pumped when you do well...and upset when you don't, but be respectful.
You are going to find that we don't give buddy arrow calls...but our groups are generally less uptight then most think....we know why we are there so just relax and shoot.(That's the idea anyway...LMAO)
Don't be THAT guy about equipment.... Earn it don't expect it.
Don't be scared to ask questions.....Lots of them if needed. Get involved because that is learning.
JUST like me....you WILL be donating sometimes...
Have FUN bro!!! This sport Kicks Booty!


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## FV Chuck

Really hard to add to what GP said...

Get in, have more fun, get better..!

Once you get to the top of the game you gotta pay for a coach and lessons anyway, may as well get good ones!



If you can afford it - it will be the coolest thing you've ever done in the game 

Chuck


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## Bobmuley

Didn't you two already shoot together in Redding?

At one time I thought I had the skill to be a pro, but lacked the commitment to represent my sponsors as much as I felt they deserved.


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## moeman1

Yes we did, but it cutting back in 2003 after 4 year of chasing. But they are right in the sense it's a good why to learn. Thanks Maurice


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## Bobmuley

I was in the group with you guys. Good times right up until the camper got shot. 

I also agree that you can shoot _with_ pros, but it is nowhere near the same as _competing_ with them. The whole mindset is different. I found it nerve wrecking because I felt like I was competing against someone other than myself.


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## moeman1

Yes it was, I a forgot about that, on Target #2, Thanks Maurice


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## kjwhfsd

Thanks guys it's basically boils down to this time. I just don't have that much extra time. I would maybe shoot 2 or 3 pro points shoots a year. I do step up to the line with the top dogs when ever I can. Im shooting the AZ Cup and USAA FITA fields That's shooting against the best have Dave school you on a FITA field is humbling and fun yes I learn every time I shoot with the top dogs. Actually I shoot better when shooting against the pros. I'm just looking at it like this at this point I don't have the time to be able to show up and shoot enough shoots to turn pro. I might always have a great time shooting and talking to the pros


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## possum trapper

I jumped in and it was the best decision ive made.I didnt want get down the road and have to ask myself "what If?"
for me i wanted to shoot with/against with the best in the world because i believe it would make me a better shooter and winning was nice at the amateur level i did about all you can do at that level but for me i wanna be the best shooter i can be and that involves shooting with the best.Good Luck


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## field14

possum trapper said:


> I jumped in and it was the best decision ive made.I didnt want get down the road and have to ask myself "what If?"
> for me i wanted to shoot with/against with the best in the world because i believe it would make me a better shooter and winning was nice at the amateur level i did about all you can do at that level but for me i wanna be the best shooter i can be and that involves shooting with the best.Good Luck


Win, lose, or draw, going up against those with better skills and more prowess than you is the way to go. Especially if you still have that drive to get better and to excel at your chosen endeavor.
The ONLY way I ever got any better at racquetball, chess, and yes, archery was when I stepped it up a notch and bit off a bit more than just the "minimum Pete". As soon as I quit playing people I could beat, or that I didn't have to try quite so hard to be competitive, my 'skill level' went up considerably just because I didn't want to embarrass myself by getting my butt royally kicked. Of course, at the beginning the thrashings were pretty severe, but it didn't take long for me to step it up. I was much more easily accomplished in Racquetball than archery, however, hahaha.
NO! No national or regional Open racquetball titles, and NO sectional or national archery titles either...only as good as 2nd in a some Sectional FIELD championships; nothing overly brilliant...but...had I not bit the bullet and went "pro" for a few years way back when, I don't think I would have gotten as far as I did.
Too old, shoot too lousy to be competitive even in amateur now daze, let alone try to stay with the likes of those great Senior Pros we have in the game today. More fun to watch in awe as they shoot X after X after X...and just wish....
Go for it while you still can, because if you don't, time WILL pass you right on by and you'll regret not going for it!
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Stubby'smom

So what is the best way to go about go about it then? Is it to work your way up the amature ranks and then make the jump or is it to just jump in? My plan is to work my way up the amature ranks (which I am steadily doing) and within 2-3 years be competing with the pro ladies. I already know my reasons for wanting to do it.


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## N7709K

Chuck, 

Should going pro be coupled with involvement in the industry through one of the many outlets? As well as shooting at that level and repping at that level?


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## Mike2787

Stubby'smom said:


> So what is the best way to go about go about it then? Is it to work your way up the amature ranks and then make the jump or is it to just jump in? My plan is to work my way up the amature ranks (which I am steadily doing) and within 2-3 years be competing with the pro ladies. I already know my reasons for wanting to do it.


This is what I've told people in the past...You should have some goals set for what you want to accomplish prior to turning pro. Whether it is to win your state championship or national championship, maybe you want to average a certain score over a period of time. Only after you have accomplished your goals and are satisfied with yourself, should you turn pro. Don't listen to anyone tell you it's time. Only you will know it. Once you go pro, it is hard to go back.


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## moeman1

Chuck Closing my thread was a Bad idea. The only thing here is say step up and see how you rate. Learn to get better by shooting with the best. They are all great Point but you need to List all the Benefit of being a Pro. They are lot's of Pro out there that now more they just is Listing. So i'm trying to see what they now by listing them. Thanks Maurice


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## blueglide1

Pro s - Con s
Shoot with the best. - Winning very little,trying to beat the best
Big Payouts if winning - High Entry fees if not winning
Learning alot to achieve - Shows you what you got to learn
Better Line times - None here
Easier to go for sponsorships - You are who?
Admiration of others - That guy cant even beat his amatures.
{ sorry couldnt resist humor above }
Sense of pride teaching others - None here

Someone can add to this list,I just wanted to start.This is more or less an individual sport so you have to search inside to feel whether or not its worth it.I enjoy it and as long as I do with great friends Ive met along the way Ill be here for along time.
Don Ward


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## FV Chuck

moeman1 said:


> Chuck Closing my thread was a Bad idea. The only thing here is say step up and see how you rate. Learn to get better by shooting with the best. They are all great Point but you need to List all the Benefit of being a Pro. They are lot's of Pro out there that now more they just is Listing. So i'm trying to see what they now by listing them. Thanks Maurice


Maurice... I've read this, I dont know maybe 7-8 times... I cant really get the jist of what your saying. I'm not trying to be rude, but ...what?

Here's what I can get; I closed your thread because it was the same question as this thread just asked differently. Maybe you could just ask your question rather than starting a new but almost identical conversation. It keep us all on focus and on point for what we are discussing.


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## FV Chuck

blueglide1 said:


> Pro s - Con s
> Shoot with the best. - Winning very little,trying to beat the best
> Big Payouts if winning - High Entry fees if not winning
> Learning alot to achieve - Shows you what you got to learn
> Better Line times - None here
> Easier to go for sponsorships - You are who?
> Admiration of others - That guy cant even beat his amatures.
> { sorry couldnt resist humor above }
> Sense of pride teaching others - None here
> 
> Someone can add to this list,I just wanted to start.This is more or less an individual sport so you have to search inside to feel whether or not its worth it.I enjoy it and as long as I do with great friends Ive met along the way Ill be here for along time.
> Don Ward


grin .... clap clap clap !! Love it Don


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## moeman1

So is that way every i how is not paying there dues, I not a Pro i shot with the Best, I Got the Big Payout, I Learned all I need to Learn, Anytime to shoot is a good time, There is no rule saying you have to be a Por to Get Sponsorships, I every i shot with respect's me & everyone as now what they can shoot. I teach everyone who want to learn. Got anything else, Just trying to clarify but if not broken to fit Good Luck. Thanks Maurice


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## FV Chuck

moeman1 said:


> So is that way every i how is not paying there dues, I not a Pro i shot with the Best, I Got the Big Payout, I Learned all I need to Learn, Anytime to shoot is a good time, There is no rule saying you have to be a Por to Get Sponsorships, I every i shot with respect's me & everyone as now what they can shoot. I teach everyone who want to learn. Got anything else, Just trying to clarify but if not broken to fit Good Luck. Thanks Maurice


Thanks Moe....


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## rock monkey

moeman1 said:


> So is that way every i how is not paying there dues, I not a Pro i shot with the Best, I Got the Big Payout, I Learned all I need to Learn, Anytime to shoot is a good time, There is no rule saying you have to be a Por to Get Sponsorships, I every i shot with respect's me & everyone as now what they can shoot. I teach everyone who want to learn. Got anything else, Just trying to clarify but if not broken to fit Good Luck. Thanks Maurice



say wha?


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## Stubby'smom

Mike2787 said:


> This is what I've told people in the past...You should have some goals set for what you want to accomplish prior to turning pro. Whether it is to win your state championship or national championship, maybe you want to average a certain score over a period of time. Only after you have accomplished your goals and are satisfied with yourself, should you turn pro. Don't listen to anyone tell you it's time. Only you will know it. Once you go pro, it is hard to go back.


Pretty much the way I had assumed and what I am doing to get there. Thanks! I'll just keep on keeping on!


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## moeman1

Mike is right, there is lot's of great point's to what everyone is saying but you need more to attracted more shooter's & to get more people to turn Pro.
I not a pro you are right but for the guy that are I feel sorry for them, Shooting a great Score & not get paid what they should. I'm not talking about 1-2-3, I saying the top ten in any National NFAA Tournament should be able to make a living at it. Not just the Winner's, Thats a way of growing the Sport. Paying down more Place's in Vegas, In Redding, Outdoors National & Yankton, & Getting Contg. Paid down more too. That all i will say, God bless them all for working hard & making it challenging. Thanks Maurice


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## FV Chuck

If the one and _only_ reason you can come with for going Pro in A N Y T H I N G is _money_ then your doing it for the wrong reason.

Trust me, I'd like to pay more pro's and pay them bigger money. It's just not there yet. Working on it for sure but it takes time.


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## blueglide1

We just had a young man turn Pro here in Wis last week or so ago.He won our state championship in amature class,and decided to take the plunge.I wish him luck,and good on him for having big enough nads, and confidence in himself to turn Pro.Colin Jones is his name.
Don Ward


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## moeman1

professional (adj) - Bing Dictionary
pro·fes·sion·al [ prō féshən'l ] 
following occupation as paid job: engaged in an occupation as a paid job rather than as a hobby
You can call it a Hobby then, Sorry Chuck, I have a way that it will work, we will talk in Redding on it. But blueglide1 yes i wish him luck & success, he also give another amature a chance to win, that is another good reason, Thanks Maurice


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## jj2774

to me going pro isnt about the money or the free bows although that would be nice its pushing yourself to your highest standerd to shoot you best scores and have fun while doing it thats what going pro means to me.


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## moeman1

You can alway's push your self too do better, There is lot's of great Benefit of being a Pro, instead of just stepping up, one of the most is giving other's a chance to win. The meaning behind what i'm trying to get is, you have to make the sport more profitable for more then just the top three, it need to be spreaded out to the top ten % of shooter, to make the sport grow. Money is not for profiting the shooter, it's to brake even when they do good, to keep them going. Thanks Maurice


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## blueglide1

I have another young man who turned 21 recently that I shoot with often turn Pro also,he is Marc Gruber.He is a great guy with a great attitude.He won the Vegas flight div this year and the Mid Minnesota open indoor too.He felt that he qualified to shoot in the top tier after those two wins.I commend him for the jump,and to give another amatuer the chance to take the top spot.Congrats Marc on your decision,and welcome to the Pro class.
Don Ward


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## deadx

Way to go buddy! Welcome to the club Marc!


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## magruber12

Thanks for the kind words Don, its greatly appreciated!


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## abdapt

A very notable reason for going pro is writing off all your gear ,travel , range , hunting license ,fees etc..


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## strapassasin

bigGP said:


> pfffffft no
> 
> 
> kjwhfsd- Maurice's is the mentality NOT to have. there is no benefit if you don't go anywhere anyway? Going pro in archery is not about $$$$$$. If you thinking you are going to get into archery to get paid you will end up very disappointed unless you happen to be one of the VERY few archers (on earth) that can make a living JUST doing archery. If you want to be the local big fish in the small pond that has some sort of inflated sense of how great they are???......cool bro rock it...THEN there is no benefit, but just know that what Mike(One of the greatest Field archers this sport has ever seen) said is right on point! Its all about competing with some great guys in some great groups against the very best this sport has to offer! Being the big fish in a puddle is not near as satisfying to me as swimming in the ocean and knowing you either got ate....or held your own against the REAL big fish (Its all fun and games until Jesse,Levi,Chance,Reo,Wills,Woody,Braden etc stomp a mud hole in your hind end....happens to me quite often) Chuck is making some great headway in getting more legitimacy in regard to what being a pro really means. In the mean time think about this............. there is alot of us Pro's that go to pretty much every Pro shoot on tour..... Yet we NEVER see about...oh... HALF of the registered Pro's in this country? Having the card and being a pro are two totally different things IMO. Not everyone can afford to go to all the shoots, That is obvious. but if you take mo's advice and keep shooting until 'You know your ready"....... how will you know your ready??? By shooting a score you THINK is at the Pro level? Pounding all the folks back home? (been there done that...some people just love to stay an amateur to rack up awards,trophies and fake resume's when they should have stepped up long ago) How much good does it do our sport when the local hot shot keeps pounding every young guy coming up into submission??? Ok we get it...you are the best in your area, Turn PRO and let the next guy have his run as amateur big dogg? Staying a Am and thumping people does NOT grow our sport. Most of us where in that position and stepped up for the betterment of the game....Shooting state or local shoots in the Pro class by yourself sucks balls....but it is necessary for growth. Until you are on the line shooting as a pro, against pro's that score doesn't mean anything. Just the fact you are asking means you are already a step ahead of Maurice. Every time you shoot in a pro group against the best will be a learning experience.... win or loose, you will get better every time bro. If you come to a shoot with the mentality "I have to Break even....or i have to make $$$$$".....you already lost....in more ways than one.


VERY well said Greg.....


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## The Swami

There are better crab cakes at the pro level.


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## brtesite

what would it take to get the pros to attend sectionals ? pro points ?


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## featherlite

Well very well said Greg and this is what it is all about. Having people to talk to and ask questions to.Are you at the top of your game well only you Know that. What is a Pro well being the best you can be at anything you do would cosider you as a pro. I am the person that has learned how to lose with respect. I do my best every time I shoot and if I beat my last score by 1 point I have won. Not all Pros are the best shooters but they do promote the sport to the highest leavel and that what it is all about. Chuck is doing a great Job to help us all and well thanks for that. Pro to me means promote the sport and keep it going and pass it on to all the future pros. Good luck to you all and happy shooting.


bigGP said:


> pfffffft no
> 
> 
> kjwhfsd- Maurice's is the mentality NOT to have. there is no benefit if you don't go anywhere anyway? Going pro in archery is not about $$$$$$. If you thinking you are going to get into archery to get paid you will end up very disappointed unless you happen to be one of the VERY few archers (on earth) that can make a living JUST doing archery. If you want to be the local big fish in the small pond that has some sort of inflated sense of how great they are???......cool bro rock it...THEN there is no benefit, but just know that what Mike(One of the greatest Field archers this sport has ever seen) said is right on point! Its all about competing with some great guys in some great groups against the very best this sport has to offer! Being the big fish in a puddle is not near as satisfying to me as swimming in the ocean and knowing you either got ate....or held your own against the REAL big fish (Its all fun and games until Jesse,Levi,Chance,Reo,Wills,Woody,Braden etc stomp a mud hole in your hind end....happens to me quite often) Chuck is making some great headway in getting more legitimacy in regard to what being a pro really means. In the mean time think about this............. there is alot of us Pro's that go to pretty much every Pro shoot on tour..... Yet we NEVER see about...oh... HALF of the registered Pro's in this country? Having the card and being a pro are two totally different things IMO. Not everyone can afford to go to all the shoots, That is obvious. but if you take mo's advice and keep shooting until 'You know your ready"....... how will you know your ready??? By shooting a score you THINK is at the Pro level? Pounding all the folks back home? (been there done that...some people just love to stay an amateur to rack up awards,trophies and fake resume's when they should have stepped up long ago) How much good does it do our sport when the local hot shot keeps pounding every young guy coming up into submission??? Ok we get it...you are the best in your area, Turn PRO and let the next guy have his run as amateur big dogg? Staying a Am and thumping people does NOT grow our sport. Most of us where in that position and stepped up for the betterment of the game....Shooting state or local shoots in the Pro class by yourself sucks balls....but it is necessary for growth. Until you are on the line shooting as a pro, against pro's that score doesn't mean anything. Just the fact you are asking means you are already a step ahead of Maurice. Every time you shoot in a pro group against the best will be a learning experience.... win or loose, you will get better every time bro. If you come to a shoot with the mentality "I have to Break even....or i have to make $$$$$".....you already lost....in more ways than one.


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## Daniel Boone

I can honestly say the best two years of my archery were shooting Senior Pro class in ASA. 

Its exspensive with high cost of traveling today. Its also more like a job to me. You got to be on your A game, takes dedication.

Really awesome guys to shoot with. Something about shooting against the best.

Turning 55, I would love to tow the line with some of the NFAA Seniors here. Will see how the score go first. 
DB


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## Stubby'smom

IDK if I'm deviating too much off topic here but how long do most pro's shoot in the amature ranks first? By that I mean how long did it take to meet your personal goals to make you think you could compete in the pro class? Once there, how much donating did you do before at least placing middle of the pack or better? What is a normal week of practice like? How much time do you spend doing things other than competitions that are archery related?


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## N7709K

turning pro is more about the mental side of the game than the actual scores; it takes 60x's and 300 vegas games to win in the top of any class, pro is no diff. The mental game that the pro's run and that is needed in pro is what make the class, div, org that much above the rest. If you've made top flight in vegas you've seen the mental game those guys run its completely diff from pro class.

for me, i stepped into pro and stepped into the top third or so.. thats just where my level of mental game and skill put me. Won one, made podium at another, finished middle of the pack a few times, had a very bad run at one shoot. You donate unless you win, so for me its gonna be 99% donation throughout my career.

practice schedule is as follows:
20-60 arrows at 8yds per night
2-3 times I'll shoot a game for score(indoor)
100-500 arrows a day(outdoor)
between scoring at 50m or 20yds i'm shooting 8yds for score.

the other involvement is the biggest, for lack of a better term (sorry Chuck, been too busy fixin boats to brush up on the PR), kicker is that you should and are, depending on sponsors, required to work booths, help any shooters that have issues, help outside of shoots... in short, for me anyway, its become a full time gig that i'm at 24/7-365. I have gear loaned out all over the country to friends that needed stuff, i've given up my practice time to help a friend get his spare rest on his bow and shooting x's, etc. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE what i do and would never go back, but at times it can be draining. You also need to know your stuff, about your gear and some other gear, so when people ask you , you can answer their questions or atleast point them in the direction of someone who can.


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## JimmyP

If you compete in the asa circuit you win your way out of each armature class .open c open b open a semi pro.if you cant win you way out dont go pro.just walk up and hand them you 250. Dollars your just donating money.i see alot of guys that cant even place in the money in open b go to a or semi guess what they dont place there either they just get beat there to.if you look in the records those that finish near last.look to see what classes they won there way up from.


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## FishAlaska

This is interesting. I have always known the word Pro is short for Professional. The term is defined as following an occupation as means of livelihood, you earn a living doing whatever it is your doing. So from what is said here, not many earn a living doing what they claim to be a professional at. So does that make them a pro?

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## FV Chuck

....I think it's important to read past line one when reading definitions...

Dictionary.com

noun
10.
a person who belongs to one of the professions, especially one of the learned professions.
11.
a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.
12.
an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.
13.
a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

------------
World English Dictionary:

— adj
1.	of, relating to, suitable for, or engaged in as a profession
2.	engaging in an activity for gain or as a means of livelihood
3.	a. extremely competent in a job, etc
b. (of a piece of work or anything performed) produced with competence or skill
4.	undertaken or performed for gain or by people who are paid

— n
5.	a person who belongs to or engages in one of the professions
6.	a person who engages for his livelihood in some activity also pursued by amateurs
7.	a person who engages in an activity with great competence
8.	an expert player of a game who gives instruction, esp to members of a club by whom he is hired


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## FishAlaska

Broke Professionals...cant afford a fancy dictionary, went off my education! Do it for the love of the sport regardless of return.

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## FV Chuck

Pretty sure the fancy phone your using has access to the internet....I make that leap since your posting here from it anyway. I used an online dictionary myself so it's not all that different than using this site. Well, except definitions are a little more accurate, widely accepted and generally factual.


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## FishAlaska

Nope...can't afford a data plan! Chuck, it was a joke...goodness gracious. Have some humor! The thread was dead so I claimed a funny! We all need to lighten up and do what we love to do for the love of the sport. I will pay the fees and I will never win Jack back and dont really care. It is all fun to me! I shot in a grp with the some great ones and the winner in Redding, it wasnt about score or who belonged there or who didnt...we had fun! That is what is all about. Don't ask where I placed Chuck! I will just say top 100! Lol....the glass is half full.

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## ArcherFletch

OK so I want to know if maurice and the bee guy ever had their showdown and if so who won? it was getting good for a minute there.


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## FishAlaska

ArcherFletch said:


> OK so I want to know if maurice and the bee guy ever had their showdown and if so who won? it was getting good for a minute there.


My money was on Greg.

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## FV Chuck

FishAlaska said:


> Nope...can't afford a data plan! Chuck, it was a joke...goodness gracious. Have some humor! The thread was dead so I claimed a funny! We all need to lighten up and do what we love to do for the love of the sport. I will pay the fees and I will never win Jack back and dont really care. It is all fun to me! I shot in a grp with the some great ones and the winner in Redding, it wasnt about score or who belonged there or who didnt...we had fun! That is what is all about. Don't ask where I placed Chuck! I will just say top 100! Lol....the glass is half full.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2


sorry bro... my bad. :/
I thought you were kicking the pot...lol

all in good fun then


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## FV Chuck

FishAlaska said:


> My money was on Greg.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2


thats two of us money on GP HAHA!


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## rossing6

I just turned pro 2012 and it was the best thing for me, takes it up another notch, I've learned from everyone I shoot with, and the best part is you can drag as many folks along with you in the sport as possible.....I think it's personal for sure, but somebody above said the key thing...it's about the competition, the shoot from the beginning to end and the time you spend and how much fun you make it....it shouldn't be about the "end" or final score...sure that is some of it, but it's like rushing through life trying to get to the end...how about enjoying the competing part...with some good guys and gals who share the same sport...I just found out I have a broken bow shoulder, torn rotator cuff, and damaged bicep tendon, can barely raise my bow, but surgery is on the 19th, and I promise you I'll be back after that, even if I have to shoot right handed again...it's just a fun game...nothing wrong with shooting up either...

Thanks for all who replied...Keith Brown, retired shooter helped me with my personal reasons, validating for me my reasons were good....thanks buddy....Ryan


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## Stubby'smom

N7709K said:


> turning pro is more about the mental side of the game than the actual scores; it takes 60x's and 300 vegas games to win in the top of any class, pro is no diff. The mental game that the pro's run and that is needed in pro is what make the class, div, org that much above the rest. If you've made top flight in vegas you've seen the mental game those guys run its completely diff from pro class.
> 
> for me, i stepped into pro and stepped into the top third or so.. thats just where my level of mental game and skill put me. Won one, made podium at another, finished middle of the pack a few times, had a very bad run at one shoot. You donate unless you win, so for me its gonna be 99% donation throughout my career.
> 
> practice schedule is as follows:
> 20-60 arrows at 8yds per night
> 2-3 times I'll shoot a game for score(indoor)
> 100-500 arrows a day(outdoor)
> between scoring at 50m or 20yds i'm shooting 8yds for score.
> 
> the other involvement is the biggest, for lack of a better term (sorry Chuck, been too busy fixin boats to brush up on the PR), kicker is that you should and are, depending on sponsors, required to work booths, help any shooters that have issues, help outside of shoots... in short, for me anyway, its become a full time gig that i'm at 24/7-365. I have gear loaned out all over the country to friends that needed stuff, i've given up my practice time to help a friend get his spare rest on his bow and shooting x's, etc. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE what i do and would never go back, but at times it can be draining. You also need to know your stuff, about your gear and some other gear, so when people ask you , you can answer their questions or atleast point them in the direction of someone who can.


Sorry I didn't come back to this thread until now! Thanks for the good answer to my questions! I'm also finding more and more of my time is spent on the technical side of things. There is alot to learn and I'm required to learn as much as possible about everything. It takes time for sure. Most of my practice sessions are at 7 yards in my basement but I don't shoot for score at that distance because my target won't stand up to it. I shoot random spots on the target and then practice stuffing my arrows inside other arrow holes. I don't count arrows but I shoot between 45 min to 1 1/2 hrs 4-5 days per week and 1-2 days per week I shoot for some sort of score. Most of the time when I do that I shoot for at least 2 scores and shoot for several hours. Then the other day of the week ususually I'm at a tournament or I take it off from shooting. I've found this practice routine really helps when I maintain regular coaching to make sure I don't fall into bad habits but I didn't have regular coaching the last couple months of the summer and I fell into some bad habits which got ingrained. I shot really poorly for awhile and couldn't figure out why. I received good advice from my coach and am back on track again but it's hard for the muscles to not go back to the "old" form.


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