# Instructors - Stop teaching open bow hand!



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

*Instructors - Please stop teaching open bow hand!*

Puh-lease! 

I don't know where this is coming from, but I wish it would stop. I see new archer after new archer holding their fingers straight out while they aim, then suddenly closing their fingers on release to keep the bow from shooting forward on the floor. I guess somewhere out there, someone... some video, some book, or some website, has been "teaching" this for many years. Where is it coming from?

Usually any attempt to correct this is met by a "I'm not grabbing the bow" response by the archer. 

UGH!

What can we do to put an end to it? Is it the hunting shows and 3-D/Bass Pro crowd that's teaching this? I know for a fact that at least two guys behind the counter at our local Bass Pro tell archers to do this. I just cringed and walked away when I overheard them telling a group of archers this a few months ago. That was right after they sold one kid a compound that was at least 2" too short of a draw length for him, and then "instructed him" to bend his bow arm so it would fit properly...

Even my 12 year-old daughter rolled her eyes and laughed. She literally told me, "Dad, I'd better get you out of here..." LOL!

John


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

I agree LW!! Folks seem to THINK that they are relaxed by doing that. It is an easy demonstration to show how tense their forearms are when they do that and how disruptive it is to "catch the bow" on release. I, Too, have no idea where it is coming from but would happily "shoot" the person sending that message. I see it all the time.

Arne


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm so glad to see this in print from a respected source. 

I greatly respect all the finger and wrist sling folks and have no issue with those who employ these slings to shoot. I own and have experimented with them both. 

I hated them from day-one, kept on trying, and after day-x gave up. 

I also greatly respect any archer who sticks his fingers any-which-way and is a good shooter.

But, buddy, I like gripping the bow with all my fingers touching. I don't squeeze hard. I let the draw pull it against my hand and keep the fingers relaxed on the front so it stays in my hand _all of the time_. I had one bow fly out of my hands to the floor, and another I grabbed before it hit the floor (boy, that was the fastest I have ever moved!), and so finally called it a day on ever lifting a finger off of the bow again.

With all due respect to all instructors and fellow archers out there, I personally will never lift a finger off of my grip during a shot for as long as I live. 

And when they bury me with my crummiest bow (my boys will get all the good ones!), the mortician better durned well make sure that my stiff fingers are each wrapped, touching, upon that grip and placed _with bent elbow_ across my lifeless chest!

And ... sew my mouth shut with Dacron, please!


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Hah! I also wonder where that one is coming from. It is the opposite of the "chicken death grip" on the bow but just as problematic..

I spent several short sessions this morning with a couple of our young archers working on a relaxed grip. One almost ended up with their bow on the ground but much better arm clearance and a much more relaxed hand. Next week, FINGER SLING!

BTW, One easy demonstration of how much torque the open hand imparts to the bow that I use (works even better if you have an extremely light weight bow like the 10lb ones we start teaching with). Put a stabilizer on the bow, and have the students watch. Go to full draw with a very relaxed hand, then open your hand to the "stretched out hand" and you will see just how much the stabilizer moves to the right. Then show them how much it moves from the relaxed hand to the "grip hand" 

It's very visual and for a visual learner, this works very well.

DC


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## LoveMyHoyt (Nov 29, 2008)

dchan - I have used that example also. 
I hate it when I tell a student something to correct - (like they are leaning back) and they respond with a "no I'm not (leaning back). They swear they're not - so while they are shooting, I quietly take my phone from my back pocket and take a picture or video of them. Then I show them and they are shocked. So many times they feel like they are doing something correctly, but it takes a new pair of (knowledgeable) eyes to actually see what they're doing. 
I love my phone and camera!!


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Anybody got a good picture of the preferred hand position?


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)




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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)




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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Hank, Here are a couple.

Arne


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

One more


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

The guy who put my first bow (compound) in my hands at Bass Pro Shop, would shoot with thumb and fingers pointed forward. He was an excellent shot but, fortunately, I had read enough to know that was not a good bow hand. I teach my students text book from the USAA manuals, in my own words, and they get it.

John, I'm seeing an interesting side to you. You really are passionate about teaching. Love it!!! I am so making like a sponge!


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## rick11743 (Sep 20, 2010)

I heard this reference that I found helpful:

- stand is a relaxed position with your arms hanging by your sides; just a relaxed standing position.
- look at your hands, notice that your fingers have a relaxed curl
- your fingers aren't pointing straight out, like a karate chop. They aren't in a clenched fist.
- maintain this same relaxed curl, when you position your bow hand on the grip, which means that your fingers tips will lightly contact 
the front of the riser.
- you can do a "play the piano" test with your bow hand fingers. At full draw, move your fingers like you're playing the piano, and 
lightly tap the front of the riser with your finger tips. This will tell you if you are maintaining a relaxed finger curl.


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## hooktonboy (Nov 21, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Puh-lease!
> 
> I don't know where this is coming from, but I wish it would stop. I see new archer after new archer holding their fingers straight out while they aim, then suddenly closing their fingers on release to keep the bow from shooting forward on the floor. I guess somewhere out there, someone... some video, some book, or some website, has been "teaching" this for many years. Where is it coming from?....


I see this a lot too. I wonder whether what's going on is really incomplete (or total absence of) teaching. "Do not grip the bow" - without any of the more detailed explanation like has been covered in this thread. Until you develop some experience and self-knowledge, "I'm not gripping the bow" is exactly the response you'd expect, because they're not (except at release when inexperienced archers often can't feel what's happening because attention is elsewhere...). You can't beat a bit of video to show people otherwise. 

Standards of archery teaching vary very widely indeed - probably worldwide - and not in a good way.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John -

Be careful, what you see may not be what's going on. A fully open bow hand has a place, but as a last resort and certainly not a long term cure (in most cases).

Some people will grab the bow regardless of what you try. One reason is that they just aren't used to the bow moving on release and shock, and worrying about the bow falling out of their hands, of course. When I have a student with that problem, I temporarily have then FORCE an open hand, literally stretching the fingers AND THE THUMB straight out. With conscious effort, the bow has to leave the hand, after a few shots or ends they (hopefully) get the idea and we can go back to a more relaxed hand position, while still allowing the bow to move without torque. (Yes, the sling has to be on and adjusted properly.)

Under proper supervision, TEMPORARILY shooting with an open hand can be very beneficial. 

The real issue is people trying to copy something they've seen or heard on the Internet or at the range without understanding why it's being done and always without proper supervision. 

Viper1 out.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

I maintain that we should start by not talking about the "bow grip" (the bow part, but it also sugggests that "grip" is a verb - that you grab the bow). Maybe you can call it a hand rest. 

The bow will press into your hand due to the pressure of the bow string being pulled back (Newton can explain that). You press the hand forward slightly into the ... deep part of the handle (feel free to suggest a name for this bow part). The Korean's, I have heard, train students by having them shoot without a sling, letting the coach catch the bow. In this country, I think it would panic the student, but I get the concept. 

An alternative to the open/stiff hand training technique is to let them shoot a few shots with the finger tips on the side of the "grip" (trying not to press on the side of the bow) to get the feel of the sling catching the bow and how the bow will roll naturally. 

I often see people wearing finger slings and still gripping the heck out of the bow. As a judge, I noticed a kid shooting the practice end at a shoot, and he had forgotten to fasten the finger sling around his thumb. Before I could remind him, he's taken the shot. No problem. The bow never moved in his hand. 

One of the hardest things about archery is that you want to actively use some muscles while relaxing others. It ain't easy.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

> The Korean's, I have heard, train students by having them shoot without a sling, letting the coach catch the bow. In this country, I think it would panic the student, but I get the concept.


Er, no, it works here and everywhere else...

This is the #1 remedial task I have to carry out for a significant percentage of hundreds of Japanese archers I work with every year. The biggest problem the "forced open" hand causes is tension in the release hand, followed by the reflexive "bow catch". Teaching the shooter to "let go" makes an enormous difference. I have a little drill that have students perform using rubber bands to teach the desired "feel". It makes a remarkable impact.

I have caught a lot of bows solving this one 

I rather disagree with the idea of using a forced open hand to teach anything. Relaxed is the key to consistency.

Thanks for bringing up a good point, John.


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## Blades (Jun 25, 2012)

Huh. Interesting concept. I found that in order to maintain a high grip and a relaxed hand, I usually keep my fingers out a bit, at least when first placing my hand and gripping the bow during pre-draw. My fingers curl slightly in when coming to full draw, but I still dont like to have them touching the bow that much. 

Good post John, I will make sure to keep this in mind. I was teaching it incorrectly to a friend to try and have her stop choking her new bow to death.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

I hate to admit that I dropped my new longbow after a shot when I was first trying it out. I caught it just as the tip touched the floor. No harm done. I'm so used to relying on the wrist sling on my compound. That's certainly making me think about it more.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

"I have a little drill that have students perform using rubber bands to teach the desired "feel". It makes a remarkable impact." What's the drill, GT? Please explain.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

trucker3573 said:


> I don't know, I just started shooting with an open hand except I curl my finger tips in but don't touch the bow with them. It has helped immensely. To each their own I guess.
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


Not the same thing. Many top archers curl their fingers under. Is it an "open hand?" In a manner of speaking, but what I'm referring to is the almost inexplicable "forced open" hand with stiff extended fingers that I see over and over and over again, then the subsequent GRAB of the bow on release to keep the bow from hitting the floor. To top it off, if you ask many of those people why they do this, they will all tell you they heard you're supposed to shoot with an open hand and not grab the bow. But when I ask them how they keep their bow from hitting the floor, they just look puzzled. LOL.

I watched one 30-year NFAA pro years ago who was teaching a student, and the student shot with the fully extended finger, open hand. Whatever the pro did, he could not convince this guy he was grabbing the bow before the arrow was gone. The archer INSISTED he wasn't grabbing the bow. Finally, it took slow-motion video to prove to this archer that the last thing he did before slapping his release was to close his fingers. The pro gave this guy some advice that I find myself repeating often. Either get a sling and learn to use it, or just go ahead and hold the bow from the start. Because all grabbing it mid-shot does is induce movment that is totally uneccesary and completely avoidable.

John


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

I heard that Darrell Pace's coach, Charlie Pearson, had a subtle way to teach you not to grab the bow: he taped a piece of masking tape over thumb tacks along the back of the handle (side towards the target) with thumb tacks facing out. I'm not sure you could do that today....


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John -

I think what you're seeing is poor instruction, not poor technique. Psychologically it's easier to do something than not do something. When trying to keep the fingers relaxed, it's pretty easy to grab the bow, and it can and will happen so quickly the shooter and a causal observer might never see it. With a forced hand, as long as the hand remains in the forced position, the bow should go flying forward, stopped only by the sling (if one is used or a catcher, if one isn't). How the bow reacts becomes pretty obvious. 

Once the shooter gets used to the feeling if the bow jumping forward on shock and looses the fear of dropping it, then you can revert back to a more relaxed grip. Remember, I'm describing a training exercise here, not a method of shooting. 

Personally, I prefer having just the tips of the fingers lightly touching the back of the grip and keeping the thumb away from the bow. That allows the bow to jump and the shooter still retain some level of control. It also makes it easier to see if the hand is actually tightening on the grip. The real thing to look at, IMHO, is how the bow reacts at loose and on shock.

Viper1 out.


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## andyman1970 (Apr 2, 2008)

I'm one of the few recurve shooters at the pro shop I frequent. I'd say 75% of the compound shooters at that range shoot with an open hand. I suspect its fear of hand-torqueing the compound that makes this somewhat common.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

andyman1970 said:


> I'm one of the few recurve shooters at the pro shop I frequent. I'd say 75% of the compound shooters at that range shoot with an open hand. I suspect its fear of hand-torqueing the compound that makes this somewhat common.


I guess they would just prefer to torque their bow as they release it...? ha, ha. I do think this comes from the casual compound side. If they would only* LOOK* at the top compound shooters, they would see that none of them do it that way, so I wonder how the misinformation keeps getting spread.

archeryal, you could get away with this today. You just have to have the right student/coach relationship, that's all. That pales in comparison with some things that even high school football coaches ask their athletes to do.

But this did make me wonder if some of the great coaches and teachers of yesteryear were great because of some of the tactics they were allowed to use.  Meanwhile we call them "greats" and then turn around and remove some of the tools of the trade, then wonder why we don't get the same results these days... LOL.

John


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

archeryal said:


> "I have a little drill that have students perform using rubber bands to teach the desired "feel". It makes a remarkable impact." What's the drill, GT? Please explain.


Simple- shoot the rubber band using the index finger of the support hand as a fulcrum and the thumb and forefingers of the release hand to pull it back. Note what happens with the support hand on the shot with any normal person. Natural follow through and a relaxed release.

I find it's surprising how many people haven't done this in elementary school in Japan, but perhaps it's considered uncouth there to zap a classmate in the back of the head with a rubber band. Easy enough to teach, though.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

archeryal said:


> I heard that Darrell Pace's coach, Charlie Pearson, had a subtle way to teach you not to grab the bow: he taped a piece of masking tape over thumb tacks along the back of the handle (side towards the target) with thumb tacks facing out. I'm not sure you could do that today....



That's how I solved my snooze button problem, too.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Usually any attempt to correct this is met by a "I'm not grabbing the bow" response by the archer.


this is where an iPhone is an teaching invaluable tool. instant video available of the archer doing so.



archeryal said:


> I heard that Darrell Pace's coach, Charlie Pearson, had a subtle way to teach you not to grab the bow: he taped a piece of masking tape over thumb tacks along the back of the handle (side towards the target) with thumb tacks facing out. I'm not sure you could do that today....


the matchbox method is a lot less prone to personal leakage and discommodement of the student archer, I find.

the opposite side of the problem is newbies walking into my club on a Saturday afternoon, having just been to see the nice bloke up the road to buy a brand new and totally inappropriate hunting-oriented compound rig. this invariable incorporates a neoprene wrist sling done up so tight across the back of the hand that it can support the bow by itself. about 1 in 10 are willing to loosen it off, "because that's how the shop set it up". come back and see me when you're willing to listen.


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

From the first shot with a new student, we teach using some sort of bow sling. Usually it is the normal finger sling.
Supporting the slings use, we teach the relaxed bow hand with the knuckles at 45 degrees. We talk about wanting the bow to move forward at release .

Specifically "cradling" the bow in the bow hand. NOT holding onto the bow.

Why would you teach anything else? Only having to go back to it later to correct a problem area?
The student does not know what is correct or not. So why not teach what is correct from the first shot?

I guess I just do not understand any other logic.

My best,

Tom


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Tom - 

It's really simple, you can teach everything correctly the first time and overwhelm the new shooter to a point where he doesn't know which end is up or rather what he should worry about first. 

First thing we do is safety, next we get them shooting as naturally as possible. Anchor and alignment come first. No sights, no stabilizers, no slings, no clickers just a bow and arrows. Then we add things when they are ready to accept them. 

Have a new shooter think that his brand new shinny bow is going to bounce down range and you have a recipe for disaster. Sure the sling may stop that, and the shooter may "know" that, but his brain and wallet are telling him something else. 

Viper1 out.


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Viper,

OK, But that is not how I was taught going through Level I & II and not how we proceed. 

Our students have everything (including a clicker) on their club bow. That is how the bows are setup. All arrows have Nibb points installed. Most arrows are full length. They do not use the clicker. But it is there for when it is the right time to introduce. Bows include stabilizers (so that the bow does not roll back on the student--thereby promoting the student to grab the bow. A rubber hook rest and sights. Safety equipment includes a finger sling, arm guard, chest protector, belt quiver & ledge tab (Cartel). We start with a stretch band. We start with an under the chin touch point. Then progress to the bow with the target (80cm) @ 5 yards. We're lucky as the indoor range we use has all of the butts on wheels. Hence we can have targets at different distances for students at different levels. We have 3 instructors so a new student or students gets their own instructor for the first few nights. They are then quickly brought into the group to promote them feeling and being part of the larger group. We also usually have one butt always at 5 yards on one end of the shooting line so a student may step aside and do blank butt clicker training as we or they see a need. Shooting is for usually 1 1/2 hours with a 5-10 minute break around the middle.

I'm not saying what we do is the correct/only way. It is just how we do it.

My best,

Tom


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Tom -

I've seen that too. It get's a little disheartening to see a kid or adult with more stuff on his bow than he knows what to do with or in some cases, can handle. The last thing I want is a new shooter dependent on a sight, stab, clicker or even a sling, if for no other reason than there's more too shooting than just one style. What I try to do is develop a more well rounded archer. 

That way, he can go into whatever style he or she chooses. Obviously I have a tendency toward Olympic shooting at this point in my career, but there are other styles out there, and the best I can do for my students, is give them enough of an exposure to make an educated choice. When I teach the fundamentals, it means the fundamentals. 

There are also times when I have to pull the sight, stab, etc from a shooters bow to have them relax and just shoot. Without that preliminary training, I don't have the option. 

I could keep giving more and more reasons, but I think you get the idea. 

Sorry, but I've also seen places teach that way, simply because it "forces" the shooter to buy more stuff from the pro shop than he really needs. Can't tell you how many really poor shooters I've seen with over $2000 in equipment. Frankly, it's my job to tell my guys what they need and what they don't, until they can make educated choices on their own. 

Viper1 out.


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Viper,

Perhaps there then is the difference. I teach OLYMPIC recurve. I will teach NAA or NFAA FS also if requested but I provide club level equipment for Olympic only.

My best,

Tom


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

massman said:


> Viper,
> 
> Perhaps there then is the difference. I teach OLYMPIC recurve. I will teach NAA or NFAA FS also if requested but I provide club level equipment for Olympic only.
> 
> ...


This is actually not a bad idea. I wish I could specialize some days... ha, ha.

John


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Limbwalker,

I must be misinformed... I though you were teaching cooking now exclusively.
Just kidding John.

My best,

Tom


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

massman said:


> Limbwalker,
> 
> I must be misinformed... I though you were teaching cooking now exclusively.
> Just kidding John.
> ...


LOL. I don't know what I'm teaching some days. Neither do some of my students! ha, ha, ha. Actually, I'm to the point with many of them now that I just blow the whistle and try to stay quiet! LOL. When your 13-16 year old students are threatening to beat you anytime you pick up your bow, it's a pretty humbling thing! 

Not sure how much longer I can intimidate my students with my shooting. One of these days, I'm going to have to learn to be really clever so they still think I know what I'm doing. LOL.

John


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## Velvetme (Apr 12, 2012)

John that's really sweet  hope my coaches feel the same!


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## leschrader (Jun 26, 2012)

Limbwalker,
I'm new here, but I've been teaching since dirt was young. Most people I've worked with are newbees who choke the bow to death. The one common thing I've taught, without adding equipment, is to touch your thumb tip and index finger tip together and relax your hand. This gives the student the security of not dropping their bow without gripping the thing to death. It also puts their knuckles in a nice relaxed 45 degree angle from the bow and allows the heel of the hand to take the force of the bow. It sounds simple, but it works and doesn't torque the bow. It does the same thing as the finger sling, but the tactile feel of the two fingers together makes a difference to a new student. This wouldn't work for a child, but for adults, their fingers are long enough to go around the throat of most bows. Try it....

Larry


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Larry, I know that trick and yes, it does work. In fact, if you watch many of our top compound shooters, that's exactly what they do. Their bows don't jump forward as actively as our recurve bows, so all it takes to keep it in their hand is a light pressure from their index finger. Many don't even use a sling of any kind. But it also works with recurves, as you mention. I would gladly accept that method versus the stiff-fingered open hand that preceeds the violent grab, any day.

John


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## Mr.Gorilla (Aug 23, 2011)

I learned the open hand way of holding the bow from the book "Shooting the Stickbow" by Anthony Camera.Don't blame me,I don't have a proper teacher yet and am just starting to learn.There are pictures throughout the book of people holding the bow that way.A perfece example is on page 66 of the second edition.I instantly changed my grip after reading this thread and I have to say my confidence has expanded.Thank's for the tips everyone.Happy shooting!

G


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

Mr.Gorilla said:


> I learned the open hand way of holding the bow from the book "Shooting the Stickbow" by Anthony Camera.Don't blame me,I don't have a proper teacher yet and am just starting to learn.There are pictures throughout the book of people holding the bow that way.A perfece example is on page 66 of the second edition.I instantly changed my grip after reading this thread and I have to say my confidence has expanded.Thank's for the tips everyone.Happy shooting!
> 
> G


Use the picture on page 29 of "The simple art of winning." by McKinney instead. I keep both books in easy reach by my living room chair. You might say that I'm an armchair archer.

By the way, last Saturday afternoon I dropped my bow under the instruction of my daughter when she was teaching me to keep a relaxed grip by letting the bow hit a loose sling. I was using a shoelace string instead of my usual finger sling and wrapped the sling the wrong way around the bow. My beloved HPX with border limbs pogoed off that bottom limb and then flopped on the side stabilizer. The purpose of the exercise was to get me to stop grabbing the bow on release.

I've also seen people have to shoot without a sling at all with a helper standing by to catch the bow. The idea is to let the bow jump into the waiting hands of the coach. (Don't try this at home!)


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John, et al - 

Seems like there are some pretty nasty misconceptions going on here. Most importantly, grabbing the bow on release is psychological not physical. IOWs, the bow hand position, (providing it's not misaligned or grabbing the bow during the hold at anchor) will not cause a shooter to grab it on release. The reasons are either fear of dropping the bow or the shock of release causing the muscles to tense up. 

So how do we fix a psychological problem? By behavior modification. What I tried to explain before, was that step one is to demonstrate what the bow is supposed to do on release, when not incumbered by the shooter. And that is jump forward and rotate way from the shooter. We can demonstrate it by doing it ourselves, and while that can help in some cases, usually a more direct approach is required. 

One way of doing that is after properly positioning the hand on the grip and ensuring the sling is in place, to have the fingers and the thumb fully stretched in the open position and kept there. This is usually done under supervision. Also, as I said earlier, keeping the fingers forced open is easier to maintain than a so-called relaxed hand, because one is active and the other passive. Typically after a few attempts, the shooter will have learned to keep his hand open on release and more importantly what the bow will do on its own. (Yes, he may end up with the bow dangling from the sling the first few times.) Once the fear or shock is is gone or accepted, then we can revert back to a normal or relaxed position. At that point there are several options available, and yes a fully open (not forced) hand is one, but there are a number of variants. 

Kinda psych 101, behavior modification. You just can't change some one's hand position and tell someone not to grab the bow and repeat it until it happens. Well I guess you could, but that seems a little hit or miss. 

Anyway, that approach has been working for my students, but I'm sure there are other methods.

One other thing concerning slings. To date the only type I've found to be idiot proof is the wrist sling. Unless you forget to engage it or the hook breaks, you really can't drop the bow. Finger slings, commercial ones and shoe laces can come loose and wrists can slip through bow slings. 

Viper1 out.


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## FlyingWatchmake (Apr 15, 2012)

Convenient timing... Having just lost/broken 2 finger slings in one day, and wondering if a wrist sling is the way to go... Always on the bow, but is there a downside? I've never shot compound (well not in the last 15 yrs) and noticed it appears a fairly common accessory on them... Paracord ready to weave!

Tom (another one)


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Viper1 said:


> John, et al -
> 
> Seems like there are some pretty nasty misconceptions going on here. Most importantly, grabbing the bow on release is psychological not physical.


I'd say it's a conditioned response, which is much the same thing but I think saying "psychological" may give the wrong idea.


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Convenient timing... Having just lost/broken 2 finger slings in one day, and wondering if a wrist sling is the way to go... Always on the bow, but is there a downside? I've never shot compound (well not in the last 15 yrs) and noticed it appears a fairly common accessory on them... Paracord ready to weave!
> 
> Tom (another one)


What you're describing sounds more like a bow sling. A wrist sling would be a loop on your wrist with a strap or string that goes around the bow and hooks back on to the loop over your wrist. Like one of these: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cr-para-cord-wrist-sling.html

For recurve shooting, I don't think I've ever seen anyone using a bow sling. Something about the way it causes the bow to fall or something. Someone probably knows better than I do.


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## FlyingWatchmake (Apr 15, 2012)

hwjchan said:


> What you're describing sounds more like a bow sling. A wrist sling would be a loop on your wrist with a strap or string that goes around the bow and hooks back on to the loop over your wrist. Like one of these: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cr-para-cord-wrist-sling.html
> 
> For recurve shooting, I don't think I've ever seen anyone using a bow sling. Something about the way it causes the bow to fall or something. Someone probably knows better than I do.


Yup, bow sling is what I was thinking about, attached at the stabiliser, hard to lose, even harder to break ;-) 

Tom


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## mtlenway (Nov 5, 2012)

First of there is a reason you dont buy your bows at Bass Pro or Cabelas, their archery shop "pro's" are just and Joe blow off the street that has fired an arrow sometime in their life. I will often time help a new archer I meet at the range with their technique. The first too things I show them is how to find their anchor point, the second is the bow grip. I will generally have them grip the bow by wrapping their thumb and index fingers around the throat until the tips touch then have the three remaining fingers off of the grip. Occassionally, if their are having a torquing issue I will have them tuck their three lower fingers behind the bow grip which apply a slight amount of outward pressure on the grip preventing it from torquing.


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## gma (Aug 22, 2012)

I've seen this happen in other sports too (inline speed skating in my case) - when "exercises" that were designed specifically to teach a concept or break beginner bad habits, over time become known as "the correct way."
I've very careful when teaching someone to explain when something is an exercise, why it's being done, and how it fits into the end goal.

That said, when teaching my 11yo daughter not to grip the bow I did use the "let the bow hit the ground" (onto carpeted floor) drill. It still confused the heck out of her despite my explanation!


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

As a complete novice, I was happy to see this thread, since I do or have done almost everything. I first picked up a bow last summer and ther is no one to really advise me. I did find myself gripping the bow to tightly and determined some of my problems were from torque applied by my hand.

So, after reading some about how this was done, I used the open hand, completely open, and while my shooting improved I did drop the bow. Frequently. I researched slings but could not see how they were going to work since I have no holes on the bow to attach anything to. I have developed a release arrow, catch bow sort of style but the timing is critical. To early and I torque the bow. To late and it hits the ground, or snow this time of year.

I understand that this is not good and see the pictures of just putting the finger tips on the back of the bow. I will try that. The idea of just using my thumb and index finger. Doesn't seem possible. Short fingers I think. Besides I am currently using my index finger as a pointer. Arrows are full length, I have a short draw length od 27 inches, and only shoot target points. Maybe later I can quit doing this.

Anyway, thanks for the pointers, I will try them the next time it gets above freezing here


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Nekekal,


Not certain what type of shooting you do, but many folks use simple finger slings. The Korean "shoelace" variety of around the wrist- between index-and- middle finger across front of the bow and looped over the thumb seems to be pretty popular, but I learned with and continue to use a very simple loop, like this:

http://images.lancasterarchery.com/...e2741987981f55f12f27/1/9/1900066_orange_4.jpg

It goes from index finger across the front of the bow to the thumb. Simple and it works. I make my own, just long enough to get the riser to "jump", but not enough that the riser slips through. 

There are several variations of this type of sling, but the above works well. 

Best of luck,

Ryan


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Here's a simple shoelace sling:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=oX0iNyXdis0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=oX0iNyXdis0


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

Here's a slightly different way of tying a shoelace fingersling that I use:

http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/FingerSling/fingersling.MOV

I have it so ingrained into muscle memory that I sometimes go to tie it on and can't remember how to do it. :mg:


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

Thanks for the finger sling suggestions. I watched the video, looked at the pictures, except for some reason the link from Mulcade didn't work on my iPad. The shoe lace seemed beyond my ability. Sort of like the catscradle thing. But I tried the concept and no matter what I did, the bow seemed to pivot around and slid through the thing. It would have hit the snow except for the string.

Of course it might be because I wear pretty heavy gloves up here, outside in the winter. I probably need someone to show me how to get into and out of the thing easily.

I just shoot at targets. I may try 3D if I can find a shoot next summer.


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## gma (Aug 22, 2012)

I've been toying with the idea of making a grip that has a partial glove integrated into it (think three fingers and a thumb), so that a sling would not be necessary. Would that be illegal under any rules?


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## Tony Bagnall (Sep 8, 2012)

I fell into this open hand trap... catching the bow was becoming more of a problem and sending my shots all over... At first I held the bow like i was trying to strangle the thing to death.. then open hand ...... Now I hold lightly with my thumb and finger and I allow the other finger to relax and basically curl a little...... I am now constantly shooting the bulls eye and grouping close.....


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Viper1 said:


> One other thing concerning slings. To date the only type I've found to be idiot proof is the wrist sling. Unless you forget to engage it or the hook breaks, you really can't drop the bow. Finger slings, commercial ones and shoe laces can come loose and wrists can slip through bow slings.
> 
> Viper1 out.


One nitpick. At least how *I* (and my students) shoot a shoelace finger sling, there is almost no way it can "come loose". This point makes me curious. I've always been partial to the proper use of a shoelace fingersling.


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

spangler said:


> One nitpick. At least how *I* (and my students) shoot a shoelace finger sling, there is almost no way it can "come loose". This point makes me curious. I've always been partial to the proper use of a shoelace fingersling.


As a side note, I've never seen a tied loop come loose. I have seen those loops banded with rubber on two ends come loose more often that I would like... and seen bows flying down range because of those.
Even a simple clove hitch on both ends will tighten with any sort of force. Even if the material is super slippery and not flat (rounded braided cord).


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

I loved my bootlace finger sling, until I dropped the bow twice when it just popped off my thumb on release. Ruined one stabiliser because of that. I've gone back to a wrist sling.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

Nekekal said:


> except for some reason the link from Mulcade didn't work on my iPad.


MOV files won't play on iPads unless converted first. Which is interesting considering Quicktime is an Apple product to begin with...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

John_K said:


> I loved my bootlace finger sling, until I dropped the bow twice when it just popped off my thumb on release. Ruined one stabiliser because of that. I've gone back to a wrist sling.


Exactly why my finger slings are made of paracord and secured with hand-sewn loops.


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> Exactly why my finger slings are made of paracord and secured with hand-sewn loops.


Nice. Do you have some photos/a guide on how to make those?


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

John,

Personally I've always liked the wrist sling (type Butch uses). Why this is not used more universally I cannot answer.
I think it is personal preference due to certain coaches...

My best,

Tom


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Wrist sling or finger sling, the main problem I've had is forgetting to put sling back on. I've dropped my full rig at least 4 times over the years due to forgetfulness, watching it seem to hang in the air before dropping straight down on to the bottom limb and tumbling over--a great physics lesson in inertia, gravity and fulcrums. At least I know I'm not snatching my bow... :embara:


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Warbow,

YA, best one I can call to mind was a club bow of ours. Student did not attacked the finger sling. It launched perfectly for her. Bounced on the tip of the bottom limbs I'd say 4 or 5 times before it finally toppled over on it's side.

Pretty amazing site as it hopped along. She was do concerned. We just explained that it happens and the bow is just a tool.

She was better after that.

Not too bad with a club bow. But a full Olympic rig OUCHHHHHHHHHH

My best,

Tom


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

For moebow, thank you. I have tried this grip style on my bow and while it felt awkward at first, I did get good results. My number of fliers were reduced and I didn't drop the bow into the snow. I will continue to use this grip. It does rotate my hand slightly and makes using my pointer finger difficult to use, but that is probably a crutch I don't need anyway. 

That is a good picture from the front of the bow. I can see exactly where the fingers go.


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

I've always taught that your best placement of your bow hand fingers is your personal "natural" position. 

That being...

drop your bow arm down along your side and relax your hand and arm. Now without moving your fingers, raise your bow arm up in front of you and note the shape of your fingers on that hand. This is then for me the optimal placement of the fingers on this hand, as this is the relaxed placement of your fingers. Anything else requires flexing of the tendons in that hand, wrist & forearm. Obviously there are always compromises. But this would be the best/relaxed placement of the bow hand fingers.

My best,

Tom


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Nekekal,

What I show in the pictures is just a slight variation on the NTS grip. It is effective for those that don't want to use a "sling" of some sort. I find that this will work for any bow grip from C bow to Hill style long bow. To be sure, the "full up" NTS grip with a finger sling of some sort is the best way to do it but not everyone wants to be bothered with the sling.

Not sure what you are saying about the index finger but if you mean it makes it more difficult to use the finger to hold the arrow on the bow, I agree, that is a foible that can be best "unlearned." I'd go so far as to say that folks that need to use the index finger to hold the arrow on the bow during draw have not learned the mechanics of the draw very well.

Arne


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

Well, you SHOULD also give the new archer a finger sling, so the bow goes nowhere! Just saying, if you have a death grip on the bow, then you're going to torque the heck out of it! We teach relaxed bow hand, but when they get that far they usually have a finger sling on at the same time.



limbwalker said:


> Puh-lease!
> 
> I don't know where this is coming from, but I wish it would stop. I see new archer after new archer holding their fingers straight out while they aim, then suddenly closing their fingers on release to keep the bow from shooting forward on the floor. I guess somewhere out there, someone... some video, some book, or some website, has been "teaching" this for many years. Where is it coming from?
> 
> ...


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

Moebow said:


> Nekekal,
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are saying about the index finger but if you mean it makes it more difficult to use the finger to hold the arrow on the bow, I agree, that is a foible that can be best "unlearned." I'd go so far as to say that folks that need to use the index finger to hold the arrow on the bow during draw have not learned the mechanics of the draw very well.
> ...


I am much to much of a novice to know what NTS is. But holding the bow like your picture does work for me. Less torquing of the bow, no dropping of the bow and I could not figure out how to make an easy to use, secure, sling.

The index finger thing is that I use it to just point at the target. Hand to eye cordination says that you can point your finger at what you are looking at. For me, I actually have to physically point. The finger doesn't touch the arrow, or the bow, it just points down range. The arrow is much longer than my draw length so there is no danger to me. This is just a mental crutch, but one I seem to need at this point in my life. Eventually I will get it into position as you have shown. 

Thanks again.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

I suggest trying to slightly reach the thumb towards the target rather than the index finger. It moves the line of force through the front side of the arm, across the chest and into the drawing elbow. Also, it tends to slightly rotate the bow and the bowstring's path away from the body at release, rather than moving the string into the arm.

I'd try different finger slings (I'm not a fan of the standard commerical ones - I use a version of the shoelace style, but sewn together and made of paracord: it tightens around the finger when pulled tight rather than sliding off.) If those don't feel good to you, there are cord slings that go around the bow and re-attach at the wrist. Compound-style bow slings (connected to the stabilizer hole, etc.) tend to be so tight that they actually increase bow torque.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

Something else you can keep in mind is you don't have to use the index finger when attaching the sling. I use my middle finger instead as I find the sling on my index finger to be rather uncomfortable.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Mulcade said:


> Something else you can keep in mind is you don't have to use the index finger when attaching the sling. I use my middle finger instead as I find the sling on my index finger to be rather uncomfortable.


I do the same thing. Started out using the index finger, and within a month or so figured out that it interferes much less on the middle finger.

John


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