# Posted in the tuning forum too...but thought I'd check with my field buddies...



## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

Without even reading your entire post I can tell you part of your problem is your cams are backwards. Your bottom cam should be behind not the top. 

It's not a spine issue. It's a tune issue. The 400s are way too stiff even if you were shooting 60lbs at your specs you don't need a 400 spine. I am shooting 58-60 lbs and with the same length arrow and 1/4" less draw and my 530 spine Medallions fly great. 


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

I know it's not a spine issue...I said that in my post. I'm shooting 500's, the arrow is acting weak, so I tried a stiffer arrow just to rule that out...

1 or 2 twists in the cable for cam timing aren't going to cause the bow to shoot that far inside center...

I'm actually going to try cranking the poundage back up to see if it improves even though that is opposite what the paper is telling me...


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

Your not shooting fingers. Ignore the "acting weak" there is no way those arrows are weak. 

If it's tuning in there and it hasn't in the past it's probably something your doing. The 3/4" is a starting point and not set in stone. I haven't had a Hoyt set on 3/4" in god knows how long. 

Move it back to 3/4" and step the hell away from the paper and group tune. 

And yes a few twist in the cable can cause everything to be off. If your bottom cam is ahead thats 1-2 twist or more depending on how you have it just to get it back to even. Then you need to put the same number in to get the top ahead so your more off more twist then you think. 




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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

I hear all of that...

but twists for cam timing aren't causing my issue...

I also know its not a weak spine thing...just did that to rule it out...

Worked on group tuning already...bow is shooting lights out the way I have it...just alarmed it is as far out of "center" as it is to shoot...

Going to try a new blade on my rest, and also verify contact isn't the problem, but I don't think so...

Always working on the "me" part, but I don't think that's it. I get consistant results good or bad shot...but stranger things have happened...


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

How many clicks are you inside 3/4"? I'm inside also and it shoots fine. 

Actually if it's shooting fine as you say I wouldn't even be thinking about it 


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

15-20 clicks inside...it's a lot...probably about 1/16" or so...enough that you can clearly see the arrow pointed to the left of the Stabilizer... I guess I'm not really worried about it per sey as long as the bow is shooting, but it looks really odd...

Like I said earlier, in 20+ years I've never had a bow tune like that before, was wondering if anybody had ideas of anything else that might be off...

If my scope housing was any bigger, I'm not sure I would be able to get the windage right...


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

That is odd. I didn't really comprehend the number at first. 

Has it always been in that far on that bow or is it a new setup? If it's always been in there something could be bent. 


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Kade said:


> That is odd. I didn't really comprehend the number at first.
> 
> Has it always been in that far on that bow or is it a new setup? If it's always been in there something could be bent.
> 
> ...


Bent or not, I am not touching it...

Shot my best round in a couple of years this weekend...

Arrow flight looks good, groups were tight:teeth:, It sure feels good to come out of a slump:thumb:...

Even started getting some of those "Oh No" x's


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I do agree that the top should be slightly ahead of the bottom. I shoot the Victory VAP's. Great bullets. I shoot 600's with 100 grain points. I can tell you that I saw a world of difference in forgiveness and grouping going to a .008 blade and laying it down pretty flat. Back up about ten yards from the target and shoot a bare shaft and see where it goes. That will tell you volumes about the center shot and you just might be really surprised..


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Unclegus said:


> I do agree that the top should be slightly ahead of the bottom. I shoot the Victory VAP's. Great bullets. I shoot 600's with 100 grain points. I can tell you that I saw a world of difference in forgiveness and grouping going to a .008 blade and laying it down pretty flat. Back up about ten yards from the target and shoot a bare shaft and see where it goes. That will tell you volumes about the center shot and you just might be really surprised..


I usually do verify papert with bareshaft...plus I can bareshaft when a paper tuner isn't available...


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## MonsterMan17 (Dec 19, 2010)

When everything looks right from a technical aspect (timing, center shot, arrow spine, etc), more than likely a right or left tear is due to bow torque. If you have access to a hooter shooter, set it up and use it to shoot it through paper, or film yourself shooting the bow with a somewhat high speed camera. You'd be surprised at the things you can clearly see with the cam. Good luck. Oh yeah, try not to watch your own arrow flight. It can cause cowhand movement and breaks in concentration at the instant the shot goes off.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

MonsterMan17 said:


> When everything looks right from a technical aspect (timing, center shot, arrow spine, etc), more than likely a right or left tear is due to bow torque. If you have access to a hooter shooter, set it up and use it to shoot it through paper, or film yourself shooting the bow with a somewhat high speed camera. You'd be surprised at the things you can clearly see with the cam. Good luck. Oh yeah, try not to watch your own arrow flight. It can cause cowhand movement and breaks in concentration at the instant the shot goes off.


Good advice for a newbie...not my problem though. I fixed those issue with my shooting 25 years ago...


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## MonsterMan17 (Dec 19, 2010)

psargeant said:


> Good advice for a newbie...not my problem though. I fixed those issue with my shooting 25 years ago...


When I say bow torque, I'm not implying that your gripping the bow or anything, just mean that the pressure point on your bow hand could be slightly off center. I'm not saying your not experienced. Sorry if I offended you.


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## MonsterMan17 (Dec 19, 2010)

I check this with every bow I shoot by loading an arrow and measuring the gap between the arrow and the cables. Then at full draw, and at my normal anchor, I have someone measure that distance again.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

MonsterMan17 said:


> When I say bow torque, I'm not implying that your gripping the bow or anything, just mean that the pressure point on your bow hand could be slightly off center. I'm not saying your not experienced. Sorry if I offended you.


No offense at all...no worries...

I've been at this long enough to know if that was the issue. Torque is pretty easy to recognize on a non-parallel bow...The bow is shooting great as it is set up, I've just never had a bow tune like this before, that's why I asked. I've since looked at a few guys' bows and all of the hoyts I've seen are set up inside of center, mine is just further inside than any other I've seen. 


MonsterMan17 said:


> I check this with every bow I shoot by loading an arrow and measuring the gap between the arrow and the cables. Then at full draw, and at my normal anchor, I have someone measure that distance again.


Interesting way to look at that...never done that before...


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## south-paaw (Jul 3, 2006)

maybe as a last resort, or so,... check nok travel on drawing board ... just to see what it's doing... ( ?? )

don't know if it can be seen or not; take notice if the travel is moving towrd the drawing board and or away from it during the draw cycle... not so much moving lateral to the side, but "yaw" ( ... i.e. elevation changes with or without sideways movement... ) ..??


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

psargeant said:


> I've been noticing some really poor arrow flight from my Hoyt, and now that I'm starting to shoot halfway decent, have decided to do something about it...First specs...
> 
> *Left handed* Hoyt Pro Elite XT2000 Spiral cams...28" Draw length, approx 50 lbs draw weight (maybe a little less than that)
> Victory Nano force 500 spine arrows cut to 26.25" of carbon 100 grain points (I also have some 400s- they have the same issue...)
> ...



All my Hoyts do the same thing Sarge. Only mine are right handed with left tears.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Every hoyt I've looked at does it. I looked at 3 more this weekend and everyone the rest is inside of center...mine is the most inside of them, but I'm finally shooting good again, so I have decided to stop worrying about it...


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## canse (Sep 9, 2008)

Hello, my experience with Vaps is they act underspined compared to oder brands. Usually I cut them 1/2 inch shorter from teoretical perfect lenght. That solved in my A7 the same problem you have now. Just to try put the 400's and play with poundage
Hope this help


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