# Need help



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Have you written down your shot sequence?
Do you consciously follow the sequence on every shot?
When you shot the blank bale, did you follow it up with a disciplined bridge?
Have you been able to disconnect your sight picture from shot execution?

Shooting targets competitively tends to make target panic worse. The archer is trying to hit the X and can't hold perfectly steady. The natural, but disastrous solution is to time trigger punch as the pin moves over the X. This can work sometimes with some archers, but for almost all of us, this quickly leads to anticipation and a full blown case of TP. You have to accept the pin movement and that your scores will reflect your pin range of movement. 

The book Idiot Proof Archery has a lot of good information on this for archers who can't work with a coach. There is a lot of BS in the book, but the parts that deal with anticipation, blank bale and the bridge are excellent. The program requires a lot of self discipline, but it will work if you follow his program to the letter.

To get better scores, train your form and work on your bow set-up and tune to reduce the ROM, but try to never fight it. This isn't easy for the more competitive among us. If we see the pin on the X, we want to make the arrow go, but that leads to bad thing. It's very hard to not release on the bounce. I have to work on this every day to avoid anticipation. It's a constant struggle. Hopefully, you can do better than me.

Allen


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

I've been exactly where you are at. 
It almost beat me and I nearly quit shooting... just like you.
This thing is usually brought on by how you aim and release the arrow.
If you are already shooting a bow using back tension to trigger the shot as a complete surprise... read no further and go find a coach. I know nothing about that problem.

However, if you shoot by lining up the sight pin on the target and then you hear, "Now!" in your head as the command to pull the trigger... I may be able to help.
Read on....

You can bet that someone shooting a bench rested rifle at 300 yards won't pull the trigger... he will just keep putting more and more pressure on that trigger until the rifle goes off. There is a way to shoot a bow using that same concept. It is highly accurate and, really, it's the best way to shoot a compound bow with sights... whether for targets or hunting. I know that when I first started shooting, I naturally felt that I needed to "shoot the bow." After a lot of inconsistency, and then an epic battle with target panic.... I came to the conclusion that I needed to let the bow shoot itself! I had found a new philosophy in archery, for me anyway. To be static. Like a bow shooting machine. To just stay out of the way and allow the arrow to leave the bow with no outside influences working against it... namely me! 

............................ .............................. ............BACK TENSION....................... .....................
Using a conscious movement of a finger to trigger the shot is what you need to get away from here. Your finger is loaded with nerve endings. It is much too sensitive and closely tied to your brain. Your mind recognizes a certain sight picture and screams, “NOW!” Your brain is always faster than your reflexes and this method of shooting can be inconsistent... and it can go south in a hurry! You have to remove your mind from the equation. 

Flexing a large muscle group to trigger the shot is the answer. In order to use back tension to achieve a surprise release, you must trust the bow, your form and the arrow. In order to become that trusting, your form, concentration and execution have to be very consistent. That takes a lot of work... and enough time and repetition to make it stick! You have to be able to completely focus on the spot you want to hit and let go of control... control of the bow, the sight pin and the moment of release. Your brain isn’t going to be able to do that without a lot of re-programming! You have to do it in steps and you can’t take any shortcuts.

Learning to give up control is far easier using a back tension release aid. If you are in as bad a shape as I was... it may prove to be impossible to keep from cheating without one. I'm not saying that you can never again use a trigger release, or that it's impossible to use one to get a surprise release, but it is a lot easier to cheat with a finger-triggered release. I would strongly recommend getting a back tension release to beat this thing. After you have mastered the surprise release, it will be fairly easy to learn to do the same thing with your hunting release. 

To shoot using back tension, you flex or squeeze the release-side muscles of your back... sort of like you are trying to make one shoulder blade touch the other one. To find these muscles, have someone stand facing you while you pretend to hold a bow at full draw. Have them grasp your elbows and try to gently force you to give them a hug while you resist, all the while keeping your arms relaxed. The back muscles you feel resisting are the ones you need to flex to trigger the shot.

...............................MUSCLE RELAXATION...............................................................................
Your muscles have to be relaxed at full draw... and remain relaxed... in order for your sight pins to be steady. At full draw, your release hand as well as your bow hand, should be completely relaxed. You don't want to be grasping or squeezing the barrel of the release or the grip of your bow handle. Also, do not force either of your hands open. Your fingers should be hanging limp and relaxed. I lightly touch my first finger and my thumb together around the bow handle, but some like to use a wrist sling. Use the bones in your arms and the muscles in your back to draw the bow. Use the same bones and back-muscles to hold as much of the weight of the bow at full draw as you can and I would recommend drawing the string straight back to your anchor point. Hold the bow out, pointed at the target, draw it straight back using your back muscles and without lifting it any higher. Once at full draw, relax every muscle in your arms that you don't need to use to stay at full draw. That goes for the muscles in your shoulders, torso and legs, too. Always remember; it's the tension in your muscles that causes your sights to wobble and jump around. If you can learn to relax everything that isn't needed to hold at full draw, your sight pins will barely even move. Almost like a bench rested rifle! It is very important that your bow is set at the correct draw length. If it is too long... or too short, you will have a very hard time relaxing fully.

.............................. ..............THE FIRST STEP.......................... 
It's tempting to just go right out and try shooting with BT on a target at 20 yards, but DON'T DO IT! In fact, once you start this training, don't shoot your bow in any other setting, for any other reason... no shooting for fun with your friends, 3D shoots, hunting... nothing! Until you're finished with the entire process, you cannot put any pressure on yourself. When you start trying all of this for the first time, it is very important, and it will speed up the learning process... if you completely eliminate the aiming part of shooting the bow. Work on relaxation and a surprise release before you ever have to worry about aiming. You need to ingrain the feel of the shot process so that it becomes automatic... as in the term, "muscle memory." You do this with your eyes closed at first. 

To get a feel for this, your target needs to be at the same height as your arrow at first. I hang my target from a rafter and stand close, so that the tip of my arrow is about 3 1/2 feet away from the target at full draw. After you reach full draw and have lined everything up, close your eyes, relax and think through every step of the shot. 

.............................. ...............THE FOUNDATION.................... .....................
When that feels VERY comfortable, move to an eye-level blank target that is 3 yards away and start shooting with your eyes open, but use no spot and try not to aim for a spot on the target... in fact, it would be better to just take the sight off your bow or cover the pins with tape for this step. When you are so tired of doing this drill every day that you are ready to die of boredom, (something like 3 weeks later... at least 1000 arrows), only then is it time to learn to do it while aiming. 

.............................. ..............AIMING.......... .............................. ..............
To aim, reach full draw with a perfect T form, line up your bubble level, pick the right pin and center it all in the peep. Next, move your whole upper body to get on target. You don't want to just move your arm up and down or side to side. That introduces torque. Your upper body and arms should at all times form a perfect T shape at full draw.
When everything is lined up, start consciously relaxing muscles. Hold the bow back with your back muscles. Start with relaxing your hands and work your way up your arms and through the shoulders. When you've shot this way long enough, you won't have to even think about this step. 
Then go into aiming mode. Your full concentration switches to the spot and only the spot. Both eyes open, the pin is blurry in your secondary vision and it will seem to float around the spot, but you need to forget about the pin. You will naturally try to keep it on the spot without even thinking about it. You should be focusing on the spot and nothing else. Keep your concentration while slowly squeezing through the shot, making sure to follow through after the release. 
The first few times the bow goes off, it will scare the heck out of you. Keep at it! You will get used to it... and at the point that you start breaking arrows because they're hitting each other at 30 yards... you'll begin to crave that feeling! Just remember that it's important to never be able to anticipate exactly when the shot will break. You need the surprise... just like a benched down rifle shooter does. No cheating! Focus... concentrate on the spot you want to hit and just squeeze through until the shot breaks.
It defies logic, really, but at some point in all of this learning process you will definitely know you are doing it right. How? Because arrow after arrow will keep going dead center of the bull's-eye... even when you know the pin was not on the spot at the time your release triggered. 


.............................. ....................THE BRIDGE........................ .............................. ..........
At this point, you’ve learned how to trigger the shot with back tension and a surprise release. Only now, with this last step... will you tie your new shooting process in with the aiming process. Move to 5 yards with an eye-level target that has a big spot to aim at... or, if you want to shoot multiple arrows, use several big spots.... no sense ruining arrows shooting at the same spot. Six inch squares of duct tape or even a paper plate will work nicely. 

Begin shooting. Let the shooting process you've instilled run on auto-pilot... all you should have in your head is that spot. Nothing else matters. Trust the bow to do it’s job. Keep in mind that at this stage, where the arrow ends up in the target isn't important. What you are trying to do is capture the feeling of the perfect execution of the shot... while aiming at the same time. 

At some point, all of your arrows will start to find the center of the spots. When that happens... and you feel like you are consistent in your form, aiming, release and follow through... move back to 10 yards and do it all again. When it all comes together at 10 yards, use a smaller spot to aim at. Repeat the process out to a good distance, but don't be in a hurry to get there! Take your time and make sure it is all working before you move back. If it isn't, move closer again. It is a good idea to begin each practice session at the hanging target with your eyes closed. As always, it is very important to quit shooting when you start to loose your focus... that's when bad things happen. 

To learn this technique all by yourself, you have to be a thinking archer... meaning, you have to be able to analyze and trouble-shoot your shot sequence from the inside... you have to feel what you're doing. This can be very tough to do. Finding a good coach is a true gold mine and it could save you a lot of headaches. Sometimes though, for whatever reason, coaching isn’t possible. A video camera can help, but only if you know what you're looking at. If you’re doing it by yourself and you ever hit a snag that you can’t figure out, all you can do is go back to a blank target, get close and work on the basics. This helps me every time.

In any case, this method of shooting a bow saved me from a life of rifle hunting and it is well worth whatever effort it takes to learn it. 

Good luck and I hope this helps you.
Zane


----------



## bill_collector (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks for the comments already guys. Zane, when I'm practicing at home, I can make my bow just basically shoot itself. I shoot with my eyes closed when I practice a few times each day just to get the feel of it. When I get on the range however, I do what you described that you used to do. As soon as the pin hits the spot, its a NOW! shot. It's like my nerves over ride everything I have been trying to teach myself in practice. 

Allen, to answer your questions, I have done most of what you described. I have written down a sequence and I keep it with me in my pouch. I didn't however do the bridge deal you talked about after blank baling. I don't think I 100% understand what you talk about when you ask if I have disconnected my sight picture from shot execution. I would really just like to throw away everything I've ever learned and go to someone who really knows what their talking about and get them to teach me. Just start fresh. 

Would it help you guys if I video myself to see if I'm doing something I shouldn't be?


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

bill_collector said:


> I didn't however do the bridge deal you talked about after blank baling. I don't think I 100% understand what you talk about when you ask if I have disconnected my sight picture from shot execution....


The bale without the bridge isn't useless, but the effectiveness of the drill is greatly reduced.

Disconnect the sight picture from shot execution: Execution should be set in motion consciously then allowed to run subconsciously while your conscious focus is entirely on the target. if your conscious mind even flickers to the back end of the shot, you have not fully ingrained your shot sequence to the subconscious level.

A video wouldn't hurt, but it's sometimes difficult to see the little things.

Allen


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

*


bill_collector said:



As soon as the pin hits the spot, its a NOW! shot. It's like my nerves over ride everything I have been trying to teach myself in practice.

Click to expand...

*


bill_collector said:


> That is one of the reasons to start at very close range and slowly work your way out to distance... you are being over-ridden because you don't trust your shot.
> The bridge is used to build that trust. Get close to a target, aim with total focus on the spot, but make the surprise release your objective instead of where the arrow goes.
> You have to change your attitude at first... to the point that you don't care where the arrow ends up in the target.
> The only thing that does matter is the surprise release with perfect shot execution... with* total focus *on the spot you want to hit... from the moment you hit full draw until the arrow is in the target.
> ...


----------



## Ray Ray (Aug 1, 2005)

I have been where you are. It take a lot of work & time to get over TP, or at least keep it at bay. I found that after blank bailing for a couple weeks in the basement, I would draw, aim & count to 3. If I kept the pin on the dot, Then I would shoot. If not, I would let down & start the shot over. 

Core archery & Idiotproof Archery both helped me.


----------



## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Another bridge I've seen used that would further help disconnect the sight picture from the shot is where run the sight off target. I believe it is similar to what's described but you run the sight off to one side so that you do not hit the spot you're aiming at when you shoot and if you hit it you have to immediately cover the hole with a fresh plate or fresh piece of tape, etc. Maybe it's a bridge to the bridge but it works to help add a sight picture to your shot sequence without having any chance to have the arrow's final location influence the process.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2010)

You cannot shot the bail and then think you have it down and go shoot targets.You are completely destroying the bale work and ingraing panic back in your sequence.You have to put in the work on the bale and then the bridge.Believe me it is not ingrained after 500 arrows.No shortcuts and no targets do the work its a discipline.I respectfully disagree with Allen i do believe what your doing is harmful and useless resulting in a nervous panic on targets.If you were an established shooter with a good shot sequence i would agree with Allen that you could bale to warm up and then shoot targets.However in this case are sequence is not established,bale work isnt complete,we are skipping the bridge,working ourselves into panic on dots, and ingraining bad habits back into our sequence that we just established on the bale.With this system its like being stuck in the mud.You have to stay committed to the bale.Good Luck


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> You cannot shot the bail and then think you have it down and go shoot targets.You are completely destroying the bale work and ingraing panic back in your sequence.You have to put in the work on the bale and then the bridge.Believe me it is not ingrained after 500 arrows.No shortcuts and no targets do the work its a discipline.I respectfully disagree with Allen i do believe what your doing is harmful and useless resulting in a nervous panic on targets.If you were an established shooter with a good shot sequence i would agree with Allen that you could bale to warm up and then shoot targets.However in this case are sequence is not established,bale work isnt complete,we are skipping the bridge,working ourselves into panic on dots, and ingraining bad habits back into our sequence that we just established on the bale.With this system its like being stuck in the mud.You have to stay committed to the bale.Good Luck


Mis-communication by incomplete explanation. My fault. 

Done right, I don't think that any time on the bale is wasted, but you are right, this archer needs the full bale & bridge course. A few arrows on a bale won't begin to correct the problem. 

My appology for an incomplete explanation of my point.

Allen


----------



## bill_collector (Jul 5, 2009)

So what y'all are saying is I need to start blank baling and do that until however long it takes. Then start on the bridge? 

I would like to show y'all a video just to make double sure there's nothing that I need to quit doing. How do I go about doing a video and posting it here.


----------



## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Need to do a little target acquisition practice. This should be incorporated with your blank bale practice. It is done to help retrain the subconscious mind that "you don't have to shoot because your pin is in the spot". It helped me tremendously.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2010)

You have a wealth of info on Zanes post.Get urself a backtension release of your choice and proceed to step 1 in Zanes post.Ingrain your release and start sending the message to the brain what a good shot feels like.This will take time but eventually you will be able to differentiate between a good clean release and a less than.Baby steps and this takes time but you need to start bailing.Now after a week when you start to think you got it DO NOT CHEAT AND TRY IT ON TARGETS YOUR PANIC WILL COME BACK QUICKLY.Sub gives you excellent advice once you have your sequence established.Good luck.


----------



## bill_collector (Jul 5, 2009)

I have a back tension release. I think my problem from when I tried blank bailing before was I didn't do it long enough. This time I will do it months if I have to.


----------



## Ray Ray (Aug 1, 2005)

You still need to bridge. When I tried without bridging, it didn't help with the panic. As soon as the sight & target were added I was back to square one.
Large targets close & holding for a certain length of time on target, then firing the shot. Slowly making the target smaller & moving back did it for me.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I truly believe it is that bridge that is more of a problem than actually learning the subconscious process of running your release program. if you're learnin back tension, your muscles will learn the manipulation of the release fairly easily, you have been doing that since you were a baby....so it doesn't take all that long to learn it. 
it is the application of what is learned, that is the hard part..... blind baling will not do this.....
that application is the "bridge". it is here, in that bridge, that so many people make the mistake of thinking blind baling is all that is necessary to reach that automatic, sub-conscious release process, that makes good shots. 
the bridge....or application....of the release process to the shot process has to be taught to the release process by shooting 10 yard rounds. not just flinging arrows at the 10 yard bale, but serious , competition quality, scored, 10 yard shooting. where the bullseye and x-ring is large and easy to stay in, so the release process, learned at blind baling, has a chance to run with the reliability and confidence it needs to learn how to apply itself to the shot process, comfortably. just like learning to ride a bike....you start out in training wheels to learn how to pedal your bike, somewhere, where there's no traffic to have to deal with. if you don't give yourself that chance to learn under no pressure conditions, you're setting yourself up for bad accident.....so goes it with your reease program, if you learn the subconscious release, and throw it at a 20 yard target, your setting yourself up to panic.


----------



## bill_collector (Jul 5, 2009)

How do you know how long to stay at each step from blank bailing them on to the bridge?


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

bill_collector said:


> How do you know how long to stay at each step from blank bailing them on to the bridge?





ron w said:


> .....that application is the "bridge". it is here, in that bridge, that so many people make the mistake of thinking blind baling is all that is necessary to reach that automatic, sub-conscious release process, that makes good shots....


The bridge starts at a distance where you are totally confident that you can hit the target. For some this is 3 yards for others it can be as much as 10 yards. Don't be macho about this, start at a distance where you are "arrogantly accurate". (I've always liked that term  ) The idea is to execute a good shot while aiming. On the bale you should not have been aiming at anything. If you find yourself picking out spots, get closer or cover your sight. The bale is about learning your best shot and ingraining into your subconscious.

The transition to aiming is not always easy. On the bale you focussed your mind only on your form. Now you want to focus on the target and let your form run subconsciously. So get as close enough that this is as easy as possible. Put us a large target. A paper plate is good. For the purposes of starting the bridge, anywhere on the plate is an inside out X. 

Now for the hard part, the discipline to shoot the shot that you developed on the bale with every arrow shot at the target. One of the terms that Len Cardinale uses is "less than". Any arrow shot that is not exactly like your bale shot is a "less than". You will get a less than sooner or later. When you do, stop shooting. Don't shoot another arrow until your next practice session. This is probably the hardest thing about the bridge. Len recommends that for at least your next 3 practice sessions, go back to the bale and work on whatever part of your shot was less than. He would probably recommend two weeks of BB for every less than, but he realizes that most don't have that much time or discipline.

A less than can often be identified by loss of focus on the target. Once you start your execution and begin aiming, if your conscious mind turns away from the target, even for a split second, it means that you don't trust that part of your form to run subconsciously. You haven't ingrained it completely into your subconscious.

A highly disciplined bridge can take a long time. One archer took a year and a half to get back to 30 yards. But he won an IBO championship shortly after completing it. 

The level of discipline you exercise on the bridge is up to you. Some guys can do well in a much shorter time. Others such as myself take a lot longer. 

If all you want to do is get rid of your TP, Bernie has an abreviated bridge in his book Idiot Proof Archery. It's worked for a lot of people. 

Hope this helps


----------



## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

bill_collector said:


> How do you know how long to stay at each step from blank bailing them on to the bridge?


:shade: it takes 21 days for the mind to except the new shot seq... i put my students on it for 30.... NO cheating and hard discipline. and NO reading anything on T.P. THIS IS FORBIDDEN in my world...the word should NEVER be spoken...then another 30 on the bridge..and i add target acquisition...and i make my students write down the shot seq on a big piece of cardboard and hang it over the target and they MUST follow it each shot.....if they cheat add 10 days..... it takes 1000 shots to 3000 shots for it to sink in that hard head and some what stay there. i also do cards most coaches dont these cards they brain wash the student [ self hypnosis ] , and set realistic goals.and give a positive mind set.....i had students that i cured 8 years later they still do the cards and love them.....


----------



## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Bill, you need to concentrate on one action in the shot sequence and once that action is completed the conscious thought must be shifted to the next action, delegating the previous step to the subconscious. The conscious mind can only concentrate on one thing at a time and trying to concentrate on more than one thing at a time leads to indecision. Indecision leads to longer holding times and a breakdown in your shooting form. 

Don't backtrack during your shot sequence either. This also leads to indecision which lengthens the shot sequence. If you ever backtrack in your sequence, that is your clue to let down. During the bridging process you are learning the conscious to subconscious transfer. 

When archers can be shown that scores are a result of the shot process, and perfecting the process will raise their scores, they will be less likely to developing target panic. 

I would define the blank bale as - not aiming so that you can think about what your doing so that while your aiming you don't have to think about what your doing. 

.02


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

subconsciously said:


> Bill, you need to concentrate on one action in the shot sequence and once that action is completed the conscious thought must be shifted to the next action, delegating the previous step to the subconscious. The conscious mind can only concentrate on one thing at a time and trying to concentrate on more than one thing at a time leads to indecision. Indecision leads to longer holding times and a breakdown in your shooting form.
> 
> Don't backtrack during your shot sequence either. This also leads to indecision which lengthens the shot sequence. If you ever backtrack in your sequence, that is your clue to let down. During the bridging process you are learning the conscious to subconscious transfer.
> 
> ...



Perfect!


----------



## carcus (Dec 10, 2005)

A little crown royal and my TP is nowhere to be found, lol, But I only practice to hunt and not to compete


----------

