# 2 SE VA deer chasers whining



## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

I've seen those guys.


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## ButchA (Mar 6, 2006)

Wow...

I knew a guy who ran dogs back at my previous company where I used to work. When we'd talk about hunting, you could definitely see the differences in our "styles".

Him: You should grab your shotgun and join up with us one of these days. I can get you into my club if you want. We run dogs all over the place and have a great time. And hey, if the dogs get onto some private property, we have every right to go get them back. You don't have to worry about anything.
Me: Thanks, but, I give the deer doggers their space. I go out to the George Washington Nat'l Forest and hunt out there instead. I like the peace and quiet where it's just me and me alone on the deer's turf, and I'm trying to outsmart him.
Him: Whatever floats your boat. But I think you're missing out. Hey, I've hunted in the GWNF once and got bored to death. What is there anyway... like, 1 deer per square mile? Hell, where my club is, we see deer all the time. Everything... Big does, big bucks, fawns, you name it. If it's brown, it's down. Everybody gets a deer.
Me: That's cool... _(then said under my breath)_ Road hunting, trespassing, probably poaching...


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

ButchA said:


> Wow...
> 
> I knew a guy who ran dogs back at my previous company where I used to work. When we'd talk about hunting, you could definitely see the differences in our "styles".
> 
> ...


The style difference is because one is hunting and the other is chasing.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Nothing else better for *whiners to do............make up some more BS and post it here. *Let's see, this post will go on, and on, and on, and on some more so until the original poster needs his cor-rectal for bedtime. :mg:

Guess what, nobody cares about this post. Close it now because it is senseless. Go to that site the anti-dog hunters started along with the 20 members and post there, you will have more in common.

Two guys doing nothing illegal in Virginia, just talking, but still some fly on the wall wanting to bash there way of hunting because you don't like it. I would love to be the fly swatter. Just more proof that even if dog chaser did everything legal, some elite "I am better than you hunters" would still cry like children because they think they know it all about hunting, and for that matter how every dog hunter in Virginia acts like. And because they don't like it.

Guess what else? Like I said before............it won't happen in any in your lifetime, probally not even in mine. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA:crybaby2::crybaby2::crybaby2::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::lalala::lalala::lalala:


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## ButchA (Mar 6, 2006)

MTNHunt... Relax, okay? I don't make it a habit of bashing anyone or anyone's style of hunting. If people want to run dogs, fine... go ahead and run dogs.

Deer hunting with a dog can be beneficial when done right. But from what I have seen and read, a lot of guys tend to _"push the envelope"_ -as the saying goes- (i.e. see how far they can stretch the law).

The guy at that previous company I worked at was one of the guys who went hunting (among few of us). One other guy had some land in Bedford county and hated deer doggers with a passion. He and the other guy used to argue all the time. When they'd get me started in on the never ending debate, I'd try my best to explain the pros and cons of either side, to no avail. 

Back in my earlier post when I said what I said _under my breath_, it was because that guy I knew would brag all the time about running his dogs all over the place, anywhere he wanted, anytime, anyplace, 24/7.

But again, I can understand how deer hunting with a dog can be beneficial. ChuckL (on this forum and on other forums) and I have PM'd each other and talked on the phone. He's pretty cool and uses dogs in Cumberland State Forest, and from what I gather, he does it right with respect to others. He gave me a invitation to tag along with him this coming season and I'm going to take him up on the offer. I have been all around the state forest and know the areas he was talking about. It is so heavy and thick, there is no way to get in there. A dog (or dogs) can slip in there and flush the deer out. What is wrong with that? It's done during general firearm season and not bow season.

If I took my dog (female beagle/shepherd mix) deer hunting with me, she'd stay with me, maybe 25-30 yards ahead of me, wandering all around sniffing the ground. We'd act like a team, like we do when we go rabbit hunting. I'd make sure she doesn't wander off and/or go onto someone else's property where she doesn't belong.

Anyway, during bow season, I like the peace and quiet where it's just me, the woods, and the deer. During firearm season, I still like the peace and quiet, but yet, in other areas east of the Blue Ridge I can see using a dog to assist in the real heavy thick brush.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*MTN, stop crying, It'll all be OK *

You can learn how to hunt. So nobody cares, huh? You'll see soon enough.

So, you are calling me a liar. I just made it up? You see, that's why hot heads like you are going to the wire denying what really goes on with you and your chronies and it's going to cost you dearly. The ironic thing about it all, if you pea brains had any common sense, you'd try to clean up your ranks instead of bad mouthing everyone and everything that hits home related to deer chasing.

Oooooooh!!!...................you want to be a fly swatter!! A deer chasing fly swatter :icon_1_lol:


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

This is probably made up as well. 

http://richmond.craigslist.org/grd/1233385341.html


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Let's see................*

Typical response from HM: Did you call the police to report it?

MTN: Someone just made that crap up and nobody cares anyway.

:icon_1_lol::icon_1_lol:


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

BigBirdVA said:


> This is probably made up as well.
> 
> http://richmond.craigslist.org/grd/1233385341.html


The county dog catcher should be very happy to catch this dog. I would think that the person would have better sense to call them first And, this dog running loose could be any time of dog, (dropped off pet, hunting, run away, and so on) Strays dogs are all types of breeds and mutts, who is to know for positive it is a abandoned hunting dog? For all you know it could be a rabid wolf/fox.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

ButchA said:


> MTNHunt... Relax, okay? I don't make it a habit of bashing anyone or anyone's style of hunting. If people want to run dogs, fine... go ahead and run dogs.
> 
> Deer hunting with a dog can be beneficial when done right. But from what I have seen and read, a lot of guys tend to _"push the envelope"_ -as the saying goes- (i.e. see how far they can stretch the law).
> 
> ...


My post was more directed at the original poster who pops these post up all the time to bash to dog hunters. Dog hunting isn't for everybody (I respect that) and I certianly enjoy my time in the woods bow hunting and still hunting. I do 50/50 during the season. To each his own, as long as it is legal I am all for it. They are bad apples in any group and I believe that the dog hunting in VA has cleaned up alot despite what Moonkryket babbles on, and on, and on, and on, and on about. Take care........


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*You left out*

mountain lion.

You quoted Fred Bear, ........................do you think Fred would recognize chasing deer, with dogs all over others' property, as hunting? I doubt it. I think there is a pretty good chance he never saw or heard of chasing deer with dogs and if he knew what it was all about, he'd not include it in his definition of "hunting".


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> You can learn how to hunt. So nobody cares, huh? You'll see soon enough.
> 
> So, you are calling me a liar. I just made it up? You see, that's why hot heads like you are going to the wire denying what really goes on with you and your chronies and it's going to cost you dearly. The ironic thing about it all, if you pea brains had any common sense, you'd try to clean up your ranks instead of bad mouthing everyone and everything that hits home related to deer chasing.
> 
> Oooooooh!!!...................you want to be a fly swatter!! A deer chasing fly swatter :icon_1_lol:


I know how to hunt, and don't live in fear of losing anything. And I don't whine and complain like a 3 year old either. Hint, Hint:mg:

The Dog hunters in Virginia are stronger than ever, your the one in denial. Sorry about your confusion.:zip: Sharpen your pencil because we have got that covered to. The facts are I realize that people hunt differently, something you don't understand and as a whole it's people that put down legal ways to hunt, are nothing more than the anti in my book and the vast majority of hunter's minds. Nothing you spew will surprise me.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> mountain lion.
> 
> You quoted Fred Bear, ........................do you think Fred would recognize chasing deer, with dogs all over others' property, as hunting? I doubt it. I think there is a pretty good chance he never saw or heard of chasing deer with dogs and if he knew what it was all about, he'd not include it in his definition of "hunting".


Wrong. He did a polar bear hunt with dogs. Keep on spewing anti.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> mountain lion.
> 
> You quoted Fred Bear, ........................do you think Fred would recognize chasing deer, with dogs all over others' property, as hunting? I doubt it. I think there is a pretty good chance he never saw or heard of chasing deer with dogs and if he knew what it was all about, he'd not include it in his definition of "hunting".


Fred Bear would never, ever bash a legal way to hunt like you have. He would also never listen to another hunter try to ban another hunters way of hunting game when it is legal. You still don't understand. You should redirect your efforts in your individual problem with the very few bad hunters (as they are with all groups) who you say are breaking laws on your property. Not bad mouthing all deer hunters that use dogs. You will never understand because it is to easy, you just like the attention and farewell.:sad:


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## rwells (Sep 21, 2007)

MTNHunt said:


> Wrong. He did a polar bear hunt with dogs. Keep on spewing anti.



Deer and Polar Bear are two different animals. I find it funny that you are calling people names and putting stupid elf butt's all over your post and call people 3 year old's. Was you looking in the mirror as you typed?


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Mtn*

I'm 67 years old and have forgotten more about Fred Bear than you'll ever know. I have his Polar Bear kill on tape and there are NO damn'd dogs chasing that bear. You still don't, and probably never will, get it. Chasing "ain't" hunting.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

rwells said:


> Deer and Polar Bear are two different animals. I find it funny that you are calling people names and putting stupid elf butt's all over your post and call people 3 year old's. Was you looking in the mirror as you typed?


Here's some for you since you find it funny.........:elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon:


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## rwells (Sep 21, 2007)

MTNHunt said:


> Here's some for you since you find it funny.........:elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon::elf_moon:



Guess you were.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> I'm 67 years old and have forgotten more about Fred Bear than you'll ever know. I have his Polar Bear kill on tape and there are NO damn'd dogs chasing that bear. You still don't, and probably never will, get it. Chasing "ain't" hunting.


Still spewing...................go night, night. Your 67 and who cares. Like I said,
I can care less what you think you know. You just like reactions so you can post some more. The great wise know it all hunter.....who cares....


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

rwells said:


> Deer and Polar Bear are two different animals. I find it funny that you are calling people names and putting stupid elf butt's all over your post and call people 3 year old's. Was you looking in the mirror as you typed?


No one ever claimed they were the brightest bulb in the pack. They remind us of that fact often.

Save your typing. These types are incapable of the concept of the rights of others. It's all about me, my hunt and my dogs. To heck with yours. 


What's really funny is the Mountains in Va are off limits to their deer chasing. So a true MTN Hunt isn't doing any deer chasing there as it's illegal. How ironic is that?


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## rwells (Sep 21, 2007)

I am glad I don't have to put up with Deer chasing dogs on this end of VA. I am sorry that you have to put up with it. The only dogs that I see are the occasional **** dog that got lost the night before. Atleast their owners are usually looking for them.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*OK so let's see the dogs chasing the polar bear*

If I had to guess, you are likely 25 to 30 years old, arrogant to the point you cannot tolerate opposing views to your deer chasing practices and act like a hot headed child (Waaaahhhhhhh!!!!) when you see something you don't like. Get used to it, punk, there's more coming.:clap:

and BTW, I, (and many other property owners) am out to either reign in illegal deer chasing practices and property invasion or END it. It's chumps like you that are helping us in our effort. Keep up the good work.


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## kraven (Jan 25, 2006)

I guess that's about right. Probably sooner than later the urban sprawl will put an end to dog hunting and all the guys who hunt whenever and however they want will wind up dogless, truckless, bowless, gunless, and trying to pay fines with their low paying gigs. 

Areas like SW VA used to be rural but a quickly becoming hot spots for transplants who won't really brook any trespassing the way locals do because they don't know or care who your daddy is. It's their land. 

Change is always difficult. Usually more so for mountain folk. It's a shame to see this part of culture disappear but the people moving into the area with money will make the rules. The people who sit on their butt and are content to simply get by have no power and never have, other than to try and beat or shoot someone. And, that never gets them far. 

It's a mixed bag of problems, really. 

Down in Saluda NC, they have a "**** Dog Day" every year and it helps the locals rub elbows with the transplants. The transplants get the idea that it's part of local culture. 
Maybe SW VA needs something like this to happen. It's easy to dislike people when you can pretend they're someone you think they are rather than get to know them. 

I don't hunt deer with dogs. I'm just talking here.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

What some don't get is that I don't care if you do it just do it on your own lands. If a land owner says no then it means no. I still can't grasp how people think they have a right to your land for anything.


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## No.1 Hoyt (Mar 11, 2007)

kraven said:


> I guess that's about right. Probably sooner than later the urban sprawl will put an end to dog hunting and all the guys who hunt whenever and however they want will wind up dogless, truckless, bowless, gunless, and trying to pay fines with their low paying gigs.
> 
> Areas like SW VA used to be rural but a quickly becoming hot spots for transplants who won't really brook any trespassing the way locals do because they don't know or care who your daddy is. It's their land.
> 
> ...



great post


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Since the beginning of time*

change has been marching on and that is one thing that WON'T change. You live with it and go on with your life. Some of my best hunting areas 35 years ago are now residential areas with 2 story brick houses as far as you can see. Just recently, one of my favorite hunting spots has been ruined by someone buying a 10 acre tract adjacent to my property and has built a house on it. That's life and we all are confronted with ongoing change until our lives are over. I call this natural change. It's inevitable. One day, who knows when in the distant future, this old planet will be lush and green again with no one intruding on others property or domain simply because there won't be anyone left here. In the meantime, there are changes that can be hastened by simple things like ignoring others' rights and ignoring the law, as is the case with deer chasing. I was involved, to a degree, in deer chasing 30 years ago and I'm still in a deer chasing club where the statement was made at the last meeting "if we don't have dogs, we don't have anything" !! That's all they know. To them, that is hunting. Even as a kid raised on a small farm in NC, we had a few hounds that were used on Saturdays to chase deer in the fall. Rarely ever did those dogs chase deer off our property and it was only 2 or 3 dogs used in the first place. Virtually all the land around was farm land with very few small residential lots. Campare that to today where we have residential tracts stuck out in the middle of what used to be nothing but farm land and compare 2 or 3 hounds chasing a few deer on Saturdays to 20 to 30 hounds with radio collars chasing deer through subdivisions all over the county. Within a 5 mile radius of my property there are no less than 13 deer chasing clubs, all of which likely have 20 to 50 dogs at their disposal on a given day and many of them run dogs 2 or 3 days per week. So it's easy to see how deer chasing dogs can be seen running 7 days per week from November 15 through January 5. How in hell can that situation be compared to the often mentioned "tradition" of "deer hunting with dogs"???? The old traditional has gone to hell in a hand basket and today's private property owners are on the receiving end. Something has to "change"................and will............just as it always has.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

ButchA said:


> Wow...
> 
> I knew a guy who ran dogs back at my previous company where I used to work. When we'd talk about hunting, you could definitely see the differences in our "styles".
> 
> ...


Butch LOL, you of all people sterotyping. I wouldn't have thunk it so pal.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

BigBirdVA said:


> What some don't get is that I don't care if you do it just do it on your own lands. If a land owner says no then it means no. I still can't grasp how people think they have a right to your land for anything.


Rick I want to schedule you to go out and talk to the deer doggers and explain the laws of no tresspassing to each club and let them know that in the future no more, action will be taken. can I book you as guest speaker for aug 1st.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> If I had to guess, you are likely 25 to 30 years old, arrogant to the point you cannot tolerate opposing views to your deer chasing practices and act like a hot headed child (Waaaahhhhhhh!!!!) when you see something you don't like. Get used to it, punk, there's more coming.:clap:
> 
> and BTW, I, (and many other property owners) am out to either reign in illegal deer chasing practices and property invasion or END it. It's chumps like you that are helping us in our effort. Keep up the good work.


You are completely wrong, pushing 40 and have been hunting since a very young age. With deer dogs and without, You are the narrow minded, one sided, and arrogant 67 year old that can't seem to understand that in Central and Southeastern Virginia, it is a long tradition of using dogs to hunt deer and belong to clubs that hunt this way. I am all for BigBirdVA's post about doing it on your own land and bothering no one. Our club is 5,000 acres and rarely do we lose dogs on opposing neighbors lands. That is what you can't understand, the majority of deer chasers don't want to lose their dogs (spend big money on tracking systems, and land to stop this) and the clubs have cleaned up a considerable amount. I.E. There is proof to change, they have organized associations and met with landowners to tell them what is going on (at least in my area and others (deer-chasers) that I know. Local Board of Supervisors have been educated in this type of hunting and the measures have been approved to continue using dogs. As far as Sunday hunting I am all for it, and want it to happen in VA, and yes I hunt with dogs in gun season. How about that for change. 

I actually feel sorry for you because of your 30 years of in a dog club and all the bad experience that you have had to stereotype and mold all dog chasers into hunters that are lazy and inexperienced in hunting. It seems to me you aided at one time breaking the laws I guess. Every time you get a chance you post some smart azz remark about dog hunting in VA and that is why I love to check in from time to time and reply to those remarks. I have the attitude of bothering no ones hunting and wanting no laws against stopping a legal way of pursuing game, any game for that matter. You want to help ban the sport of using dogs period, that's sad. What is even more sad is I got allot more time to see the change in Virginia Deer Hunting with dogs then you will even have. Being in Corporate America with the same company for nearly 16 years and 5 owners, I know change, so don't preach to me. What you forget is that a whole lot of hunters in VA have a vested interest in seeing dog hunting continue, and we realize that things may change. You are the one with tunnel vision. Deer Chasers are not a dying breed and aren't stupid people like you make them out to be, sorry for your bad luck with your property (it can be stopped and those bad hunters can be caught) but I still believe you are just on a crusade to PUT DOWN all who enjoy using dogs legally for your own agenda. That is why I refuse to let you spew trash and stupid posts like attacking the other young hunter on another post about deer hunting with dogs, only to point out the bad apples. When it comes to people like you it is your ATTITUDE that will be the down fall of all HUNTING. With you so called expertise, I would think you would know by now it is always two sides to a story. And yes I will continue the good work of telling the whole story of hunting with dogs, because you don't have a clue. Your hatred and temper is only thing blind to this BIG PICTURE, not mine. And keep guessing about me and my hunting ability and age because it only makes you look like the foolish one.:sad:


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

> I am all for BigBirdVA's post about doing it on your own land and bothering no one. Our club is 5,000 acres and rarely do we lose dogs on opposing neighbors lands. That is what you can't understand, the majority of deer chasers don't want to lose their dogs (spend big money on tracking systems, and land to stop this) and the clubs have cleaned up a considerable amount. I.E.




Well MTN we finally agree on something. In order for property rights to work they have to work both ways. If I want to do as I please without intrusion from others on my land I have to expect for you to be able to do the same. I think a meeting point in the middle is what's needed and see if that can work.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Believe what you want deer chaser*

I really feel sorry for you and your deer chasing buddies, spending all that money on dogs. You'll be spending more soon. Your free ride is about over. 

You're actually 40 huh? I could understand your mouthy comments to some extent if you were in your 20's but at 40!!!! So you've learned nothing in 20 years. Says a lot about you. 

You are right about one thing though, as it stands right now with a large number of your fellow chasers continuing their same old zhit, I will continue my efforts to protect my property and if it means ending deer chasing, so be it. You folks have had plenty chance to get your act together but you keep defending the ones that are actually going to make your investment in all those high dollar dogs a losing proposition.

So I'm arrogant for demanding my private property remain private and without dogs continually running over it? I'm supposed to bend over and take it huh? Not in your life. You can take your tradition and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

As to my still being in the deer chasing club, since 1968, there are some good folks in the club, mostly the ones that don't own dogs. The dog owners are mostly on an ego trip ( young and ignorant) to see who can get the tallest tires on their trucks, who's dogs are the best, and arguing all the time about who goes where on a hunt......kind of like a bunch of little whiny azzed kids. My reason for being there all these years is the 3,000 acres of pretty good bowhunting and muzzle loader hunting areas with 2 swamps on the property. Other than that I'd be long gone. I pay my dues, work the work parties and hunt while staying away from the other BS and there is plenty of that there. I stopped, about 15 years ago, drawing numbers out of a can and sitting up a wooden platform watching school busses go by while waiting for a dog to run a deer by me. It had nothing to do with the club running over others' porperty because this club does not do that intentionally like so many do.

If you read my posts you'll see, as Bird keeps saying, that if dogs stay off my property, I have no problem with deer chasing. Do you get it?? I don't think it's possible so that's why I'm going to continue my effort to end it, just as many other land owners are doing. The difference is that I'm not keeping quiet as long as the zhit continues, you and your buddies can count on that.

What is it about "private" that the majority of deer chasers don't understand?? 

Although you say you don't care what I post, you are obsviously angry about it. I hope you are. Maybe you'll channel your anger where it belongs and that's towards the ones that have put you deer chasers in the corner you are in now.

So I don't have a clue?? Wishful thinking on your part, dude. Yes I'm 67 but not one sitting on the front porch rocking. Typically, wisdom comes with age but something I've seen with many deer chasers, they somehow go into a downhill slide towards denial, agnorance of respect for others. I suspect that daily shoveling of dogzhit might affect the brain:wacko:


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Agreed. There are logical ways and pretty stupid ways to talk to land owners about the retrieval issue.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Moon, every time I read another post of yours, I can help but to think of "Grumpy Old Men the movie" without the happy ending and all the comedy.



:crybaby2::deadhorse:deadhorse:crybaby2:


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*I'm old in age only, dude.*

There's a saying you may not have heard...."Don't mess with old folks":nono:

BTW, why put all the little gadgets you shoot on your bow on your posts? Is that supposed to impress us? 

I'd think you would be posting photos of all your "expensive" deer chasing dogs


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Just this week*

had deer chasers out with their "fox"  dogs. That's the BS line they give wildlife officers. These clowns have no respect for deer fawns and have no problems with their dogs chasing these defenseless animals. They are happy hearig those yapping dogs even if it means fawns are caught and killed in the process. That's the mantality we are dealing with. One would think even they would have the decency to keep their deer chasing out of the woods for a few weeks to give the deer fawns a chance to mature enough to at least learn how to run. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they have to hear those dogs yapping!!!!! Sick!


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Moonkryket said:


> had deer chasers out with their "fox"  dogs. That's the BS line they give wildlife officers. These clowns have no respect for deer fawns and have no problems with their dogs chasing these defenseless animals. They are happy hearig those yapping dogs even if it means fawns are caught and killed in the process. That's the mantality we are dealing with. One would think even they would have the decency to keep their deer chasing out of the woods for a few weeks to give the deer fawns a chance to mature enough to at least learn how to run. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they have to hear those dogs yapping!!!!! Sick!


It's not foxes any more, it's 'yotes. The fox loophole law worked for about a month.


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## kraven (Jan 25, 2006)

Perhaps a solution similar to the one implemented in the UK would work. Going from scent-hounds to sight hounds (grayhounds, irish wolfhounds, elkhounds/borzoi) might be a better idea for the increasingly close quarters.

When sight hounds can't see the animal, they stop chasing. And, they don't bay like a b/t or walker does. 


I have a whippet I hunt rabbits with and the fact that she doesn't bark earns her a lot of goodwill, not to mention the general good nature of sighthounds. 
No one seems to mind her doing her thing. 

Just an idea. 

I understand being a dog lover and having an appreciation of what a dog does when it's doing what it does best. 

Maybe it's time to move to a different kind of dog for a different kind of hunting.


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## Catdaddy SC (Apr 30, 2009)

MTNHunt said:


> I am all for BigBirdVA's post about doing it on your own land and bothering no one. Our club is 5,000 acres and rarely do we lose dogs on opposing neighbors lands.


Well, if that's the case you should have no problem with the proposed "Georgia" regulations that Virginia is looking to adopt. If you keep your dogs on your land, it will not effect you in the least. The problem is your walker hound can and does get off 5,000 acres....sometimes in less than 15 minutes.


It's not a dog hunter vs still hunter problem, that the dog hunters make it out to be. It's a property rights issue..........meaning when you own property, you also have the right to enjoy your land the way YOU envision..........and that's where doghunters do get it or don't care. They think it's perfectly OK to ruined the peace and tranquility of the property owners expectations........under the pretense of "tradition".


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Cat*

You are right. They don't get it. They'll beat around that every time it's mentioned. Some of the deer chasing clowns prove it everytime they post here. NO respect for private property.


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## ButchA (Mar 6, 2006)

If some of the "rogue" deer hound hunters would police their own and maybe clean up their act a little, then there shouldn't be a problem with private property owners and all the deer hounds running amok.


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

Hokieman said:


> Rick I want to schedule you to go out and talk to the deer doggers and explain the laws of no tresspassing to each club and let them know that in the future no more, action will be taken. can I book you as guest speaker for aug 1st.


Hokie....

If he is taking bookings for that....please send him to my club first!!


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

ButchA said:


> If some of the "rogue" deer hound hunters would police their own and maybe clean up their act a little, then there shouldn't be a problem with private property owners and all the deer hounds running amok.


What rogue deer hound hunters are you talking about ButchA...as I recall you give the dog hunters space and dont hunt around dog hunters...

Ohh you must be talking about the rogue deer dog hunters that Bigbird refers to...you know..the ones that tresspass on his property.

someone remind me how much property bigbird owns?? Or actually leases amongst the thousands of acres of leased dog hunting property.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*It does not matter*

if he owns 3,000 acres or leases only 10, it's not for you to trample over. Get it? Obviously not


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

crumbe said:


> What rogue deer hound hunters are you talking about ButchA...as I recall you give the dog hunters space and dont hunt around dog hunters...
> 
> Ohh you must be talking about the rogue deer dog hunters that Bigbird refers to...you know..the ones that tresspass on his property.
> 
> someone remind me how much property bigbird owns?? Or actually leases amongst the thousands of acres of leased dog hunting property.


So if one has more land they can trump other smaller parcels? Typical "it's all about me and my hunt" mentality. That's exactly the mindset that will help bring change. 

And BTW there's no escaping the rogue chaser. Went to the mountains to get totally away from them spring gobbler. Out hunting and I hear hounds barking, chasing and then shots. Yes shots when nothing was in season to be shot. Again it's just typical chaser mentality in action, "it's my land, my game and my season and I'll do as I please whenever I feel like it". Just keep up the good work it makes it easier for change to come.


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

BigBirdVA said:


> So if one has more land they can trump other smaller parcels? Typical "it's all about me and my hunt" mentality. That's exactly the mindset that will help bring change.
> 
> And BTW there's no escaping the rogue chaser. Went to the mountains to get totally away from them spring gobbler. Out hunting and I hear hounds barking, chasing and then shots. Yes shots when nothing was in season to be shot. Again it's just typical chaser mentality in action, "it's my land, my game and my season and I'll do as I please whenever I feel like it". Just keep up the good work it makes it easier for change to come.



Seems to me its people like you with that mentality.....

I leased this land....I dont want no one on it....Its my land I can do what I want. 

People like you that cant get along with other people..gets kicked out of clubs for those reason. People like you that has to go around harassing other hunters.

People like you that go out to the country in the middle of 1000's of acres of dog hunting land in SE Virginia...buy a 100 acres...thinks that he owns the entire county...then gets mad when dogs come across his land during gun season. 

Come on Bigbird...your "dog hunters" are selfish line dont cut it with me....

I see to many people like you out there.

The only people I see constantly complaining are you and a few of your buddies. 


You can only whine so long..then people stop listening!!

Not gettting into it with you though....not anymore...

see you this hunting season...make sure you stop this time when your out harassing the local hunters. Wait a minute...your not a local are you!! Just goes to prove you go out of your way to harass other hunters. Seems to me they call that "looking for trouble".


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Of course it doesn't cut it with people of that mindset. The idea that land they don't lease or own should be off limits in any form is totally foreign. "I'm a local and I can do as I wish". Just more ammo to why change will happen. Totally clueless as usual.


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

Yeah your right BB....

"As usual"


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## chuckl (May 19, 2009)

> So if one has more land they can trump other smaller parcels?


well i personaly wouldnt agree with that but...............and im not arguing,but why would someone knowingly lease or buy a small,say ten acre parcell surounded by a couple thousand acres of dog club land,that dont like dogs,knows there is rtr law here in va and knows there are gonna be issues from time to time.why intentionaly put yourself through that.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Good God!!!*

I can't believe this guy's mindset He thinks people should not buy property in an area where deer chasing is *currently *legal. Talking about screwed up!! I 've got news for you, dude, if you think it's only one or two people that are working to end your foolishness, just watch. It's people like you that will end your property trampling practices. Mark my word. I can't believe your arrogance but.............you just confirmed it:brick:


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## chuckl (May 19, 2009)

moon are talking about my post or crumbs post?


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

Moonkryket said:


> I can't believe this guy's mindset He thinks people should not buy property in an area where deer chasing is *currently *legal. Talking about screwed up!! I 've got news for you, dude, if you think it's only one or two people that are working to end your foolishness, just watch. It's people like you that will end your property trampling practices. Mark my word. I can't believe your arrogance but.............you just confirmed it:brick:


Not what was said at all....buy land where ever you want....

What was said...was...

What kind of IDIOT would buy or lease a small parcel of land.......matter of fact any size piece of land in the middle of 1000's of acres of traditional hound hunting counties...and then complain about dogs trespassing during the hunting season.


This might be hard for some of you to understand....but you have to smarter than the dogs that you complain so much about.
as far as change goes....

Arent you guys blue in the face yet??


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

chuckl said:


> well i personaly wouldnt agree with that but...............and im not arguing,but why would someone knowingly lease or buy a small,say ten acre parcell surounded by a couple thousand acres of dog club land,that dont like dogs,knows there is rtr law here in va and knows there are gonna be issues from time to time.why intentionaly put yourself through that.


So what's your min size limit before you have a right to use without interference from others? 

Still your comments show that it's expected by the chasers that others should expect something from them from time to time. That in itself is the issue in it's most simplest and easiest to understand form.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*I don't have issues with dogs*

Just the arrogant idiots that own them and trample over others' property. If the shoe fits...................

*"What kind of IDIOT would buy or lease a small parcel of land.......matter of fact any size piece of land in the middle of 1000's of acres of traditional hound hunting counties...and then complain about dogs trespassing during the hunting season".*

It seems you will be the one RED in the face when all is said and done. Your thousands of acres of land currently being used by "traditional":bs: deer chasers will be withering away right before your eyes. Go look into a mirror when you can only chase rabbits with your deer chasing dogs. You'll deserve it.


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

Yeah....you both right now


"As USUAL"


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## ButchA (Mar 6, 2006)

crumbe said:


> What rogue deer hound hunters are you talking about ButchA...as I recall you give the dog hunters space and dont hunt around dog hunters...
> 
> Ohh you must be talking about the rogue deer dog hunters that Bigbird refers to...you know..the ones that tresspass on his property.
> 
> someone remind me how much property bigbird owns?? Or actually leases amongst the thousands of acres of leased dog hunting property.


Crumbe... I'm talking about the rogue hunters that everyone has heard of:
- The ones who don't care about anyone or anything, except themselves.
- The ones who cut fences and drive jacked up trucks all over crop fields.
- The ones who drop deer hounds off during archery season.
- The ones who show blatant disregard for hunting regulations and the law.

I have not witnessed any of this (except the deer hounds during archery season). I have just heard lots of stories. It is true, I give the deer doggers their space, and I don't bother them.


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

ButchA said:


> Crumbe... I'm talking about the rogue hunters that everyone has heard of:
> - The ones who don't care about anyone or anything, except themselves.
> - The ones who cut fences and drive jacked up trucks all over crop fields.
> - The ones who drop deer hounds off during archery season.
> ...


So basically other than running dogs during bow season..you have no personal proof of anything else, Other than hear say from guys like the two above...which I might remind you that just about any of the forums you and I have been on are always in on threads like this....soooo

Whats you beef then?? You always seem to get in on these threads....is your beef just that your from New York and did not grow up hunting with hounds?? Because if that is the case....dont you think maybe...just maybe you let the two guys above influence you just a little to much...after all you just admitted you have no personal proof of anything other than running deer hounds out of season. 

Do you really want to be associated with a guy that goes out of his way to make trouble with other hunters?? Goes places he has no business being to do it??

You ever wonder with so many members of AT how many do you think are from VA....now go back and read all the threads just like this one....then go to all the other forums and read the same threads....now...who's names will be on them. IF there is such a huge problem...then why is it always the same 3 or 4 guys complaining???????????

Its just like last fall...so much hoopla from a few guys...and what happened...nothing...

(In the next post your going to hear how soooo much change is coming...and I better be worried)

If there are ANY changes which some changes make sense to me they will be changes that the people that hunt with hounds approve on...and agree with...nothing is going to be forced on them by ANTI's. Didnt we all learn that last year??

This thread is just like all the rest...with the same guys in it....could probably finish this post on any number of other forums and the same guys would read it...so why bother...."AS USUAL"


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*So why don't you pull the wad out of your pants*

and go join your crowd. For your information I don't have to go look for trouble with deer chasers. It comes to me..............on my property. It may piss you off that people do own property but that's your problem not mine. I've had to have the game warden slow down the idiots that put their "fox" (BS) dogs in the woods during the last 3 weeks to keep them from chasing young fawns that can't even run yet but you don't give a rat's behind about that, just as they don't...............but it's going to cost you. We'll see to it. BTW, I couldn't care less whether you are worried or not. You mean nothing to me accept, once again, proving my point. Your arrogant, idiotic posts will be used to prove landowners' points. You and your chronies are on the wrong side of this battle. You keep believing it's only 2 of us  That's right, keep believing/hoping that  I'm here on this forum just letting people know what has been evolving with deer chasers in this part of the state. My real efforts at ending your "tradition" has nothing to do with this forum or YOU


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

good for you....


same crap you were spewing last year.

Do what ya got to do


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Same crap that was happening*

last year. Go feed your deer/fox chasing dogs. You aren't making any headway here, just digging a deeper hole.


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## ButchA (Mar 6, 2006)

crumbe said:


> So basically other than running dogs during bow season..you have no personal proof of anything else, Other than hear say from guys like the two above...which I might remind you that just about any of the forums you and I have been on are always in on threads like this....soooo
> 
> Whats you beef then?? You always seem to get in on these threads....is your beef just that your from New York and did not grow up hunting with hounds?? Because if that is the case....dont you think maybe...just maybe you let the two guys above influence you just a little to much...after all you just admitted you have no personal proof of anything other than running deer hounds out of season.
> 
> ...


Um.... That's right. I have never seen deer hounds being dropped off on someone's property, fences cut down, nails and screws in people's driveways - in an act of retaliation, etc...etc... I have just heard about it. But here the deal... It wasn't only from BigBird and MoonKryket. There were many other people I have heard it from (some who are not even on any forums - heck, some of them don't even hunt).

I knew a guy at my previous company who ran dogs. He used to BRAG about his dogs running all over the place, and how he loved the fact that he could go anywhere, anyplace, anytime, with his dogs. After listening to him a few times, he came across as very rude, greedy, and inconsiderate.

Yes, I am originally from upstate NY. I just know how New Yorkers hunt and was brought up that way. Sorry to offend the hound hunters, but from a "yankee come-here" point of view, it's always been:

Duck hunting with a black lab = cool.
Upland bird hunting with a spaniel = cool.
Rabbit hunting with a beagle = cool.
Deer hunting with a hound dog = _huh?_

But yet here's another thing... I can see both sides of the issue. I hope the others don't mind if I try to speak on their behalf:

ChuckL - is a great guy who I have talked to on the phone. He hunts with deer hounds and also still hunts out west of the blue ridge. Chuck is very respectful of others and doesn't drop his deer hounds all over God's creation and let them run amok. He does it right and does it very ethically. Chuck hunts in some of the most nastiest, heaviest, thickest, stuff you could imagine. His hound dogs are able to slip in there where he can't go and they flush the deer out for him. Chuck has offered to let me tag along with him on a hunt this coming season, and I plan on taking him up on the offer. :shade:

MoonKryket - is a real nice guy but is also a very tired, frustrated, property owner. He has his own private place that he hunts on, and he probably has created food plots, and worked the land, etc... It is easy to understand how he feels when dozens and dozens of deer hounds are running all over his property. It's his property! His land is posted! He doesn't want deer hounds running amok all over this property, simple as that. A little courtesy goes along way. If I were in MoonKryket's shoes, and owned property like he does, I too would be upset with deer hounds and the current laws, such as RTR.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Fact is*

a deer chaser will not be accepted here, on an archery site) with the old "why can't we all just get along" crap. We can get along if they ever come to their senses and realize in order for that to happen they need to keep their dogs and their own azzes off private property. Until that time...................we'll keep working to end it.... simple as that.

They have no concern for private property because they have nothing to enterfere with *their* intrusive practices. Other than buzzing them with helicopters during their deer chasing:icon_1_lol:, it's hard to intrude on an already intrusive so called sport.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

You won't be satisfied til deer hound chasing is banned and or land size requirments are required. Do you realize that their are more than deer chasers that own hounds? Do you realize that during archery season field trials are going on for foxhounds? you hear or see a hound and automatically assume it is running a deer. Have you as a landowner ever got out and introduced yourself to these individuals and talked to them. I would assume not, I bet you snurled your nose and cussed them under your breath. It takes two to reach common ground. Who's going be first?


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Matter of fact*

I have and continue. The fellow running dogs last week claimed they were fox dogs. I know they will run anything that gets in front of them. My point is he has no concern whatsoever about the fawns being caught and killed by his dogs. It's ALL about him and his dogs. NOTHING else matters. He just proved it again. How can anyone that calls himself a "hunter" be so ignorant or uncaring of his surroundings? And he's a hunter.................that you think I should support????:thumbs_do Yep, when hell freezes over.............maybe.


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

Moonkryket said:


> I have and continue. The fellow running dogs last week claimed they were fox dogs. I know they will run anything that gets in front of them. My point is he has no concern whatsoever about the fawns being caught and killed by his dogs. It's ALL about him and his dogs. NOTHING else matters. He just proved it again. How can anyone that calls himself a "hunter" be so ignorant or uncaring of his surroundings? And he's a hunter.................that you think I should support????:thumbs_do Yep, when hell freezes over.............maybe.



Show me pictures of fawns being chased by dogs and killed......if you cant produce them quit spewing your lies all over the internet. And I mean pictures of a fawn being killed with the dogs all around it not pictures of a dead fawn that could have been killed by yotes or something like that....I am sure if you could produce something like that you would have done it already. 

I was trying to stay out of this BS thread...but you keep on putting stuff on here that needs to be put down.

You know what...never mind...your going to say what you your going to say....guess I will just have to keep on calling BS!!


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*No, the BS just returned*

I don't have to show you anything or prove anythingto you. I proved it to the people that count.............and you hardly fit into that category. 

We left part of our food plot with tall grass because there were 2 small fawns bedded down there................all the while, dogs were chasing anything that gets in front of them within 250 yards.

Are you ignorant enough to believe that a fully grown Walker hound cannot catch and kill newly born fawns? Are you ignorant enough to suggest that when Walker hounds are placed in the woods to run "fox" (more BS ,BTW) during June, that they do not encounter fawns???? If so, that's not ignorance.............. that's outright sick and dumb as hell. But as I have said, it all adds up and WILL cost those that do it and the ones that defend them. Your level of ignorance and arrogance is truly amazing.


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## crumbe (Mar 28, 2006)

Nope not ignorant......exactly the opposite....

and exactly the response I was expecting...as usual..no proof...you cant prove nothing...and you know it...you just have to get on here and tell lies.

I do know how a hounds acts and what it will run. Come up with some proof and maybe someone will actually listen to you. And because you have no proof you resort to calling me ignorant and arrogant. Dude you and your buddies "coin" the word Ignorant and Arrogant. 

Actually Im smart enough to realize that what you say is almost always BS.

Your so far off on what you think I am or do....its so typical of you and your kind.

you guys keep making threats...and never get anything done it must be frustrating for you to know that the people that matter dont pay much attention to you because they know all you do is whine.

As I said before...do what your going to do. The "RIGHT" people will come together to work out issues...and if they are smart..guys like you will not be allowed to have any say. You dont serve any purpose other than widening the gap between hound hunters and still hunters. Which to me you dont belong to either group. Your a ANTI hunter.

Some day some of this stuff will be worked out..and you may be able to enjoy some of the benefits of people that can actually sit down and have a inteligent conversation. But none of it will be because of anything you have done.

I guess my last post for a while though. Dont worry Ill be back though. Maybe someone else will take over for me so the BS dont get to deep.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Dream on*

You are pitiful. You have no idea what I do and who I communicate with so I think most intellegent people reading your ramblings will see it for what it is (BS) Your feeble effort to discredit me here "ain't" working as you think it is. You are about as successfuf here as I would be convincing deer chasers on their forums that they are are FOS, even though you all are.


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## Hokieman (Dec 21, 2007)

Moonkryket said:


> You are pitiful. You have no idea what I do and who I communicate with so I think most intellegent people reading your ramblings will see it for what it is (BS) Your feeble effort to discredit me here "ain't" working as you think it is. You are about as successfuf here as I would be convincing deer chasers on their forums that they are are FOS, even though you all are.


A bit of truth. Your 67yrs old. In no time soon will deer chasing with hounds end. You will be 6ft under the ground soon enough. Please enjoy what time you have and smell the flowers and your surroundings. Your whining and bickering has to stop.:shade:


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