# What laws would you get rid of?



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Hunting on sunday is a violation of the first amendment IMHO
I don't have much use for the law that required you tag a deer before you shot another one. 

most of the laws I have problems with involve restrictions on guns in general, not how I hunt


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## thesource (May 19, 2005)

I would get rid of NY's hunting age laws.

Bowhunt for deer - 14 
Gunhunt for deer - 16

They can't hunt during gun season until they are old enough to drive, for crying out loud.


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## PMantle (Feb 15, 2004)

Maybe not the laws themselves, but the way possession is enforced sometimes is just absurd. You can't even carry ducks out for someone without tagging. More common sense is what I mean, I guess.

In La., I'd change the 6 deer of any sex limit to 2 bucks and 3 does, and institute a tagging system.

Steel shot for squirrels and woodcock on fed. refuges makes little sense when there are no waterfowl areas close by.


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## KYShooter (Jun 23, 2004)

Bowhunters not being allowed to carry a concealed weapon.


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## spec (Dec 13, 2005)

Ditto to what KYShooter said.


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

KYShooter said:


> Bowhunters not being allowed to carry a concealed weapon.


*DITTO....*

That is trampling on our 2nd amendment rights.

Lots of crap happens in some woods that would take more than an arrow to stop.


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## Bellows1 (Oct 19, 2003)

KYShooter said:


> Bowhunters not being allowed to carry a concealed weapon.


This is one law I sometimes break.


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## Tim4Trout (Jul 10, 2003)

I would eliminate or at least seriously amend any and all laws which currently allow radical anti hunting factions like the hsus to push anti hunting legislation by attempting to grasp at people's emotions via exploitation of the voter referendum process.


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## 1wayin (Mar 26, 2006)

KYShooter said:


> Bowhunters not being allowed to carry a concealed weapon.


I agree 100% I also don't agree with some of the age laws other states have. Kids are our future how many do we loose to other things because they are tired of waiting around until it is their time to hunt?


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## oldbhtrnewequip (Dec 30, 2005)

I'd start with ethics. After all....rules or laws are born out of ethics.
I'd start with B&C, as opposed to say....P&Y. P&Y came up with a completely different set of ethics, after B&C, and defined "rules" in a completely different manner, by restricting actions and equipment usage. They muddied the water.
They were divisive. That division still causes conflict today.

I'd get rid of the spoken and unspoken rule that says a different set of ethics applies to one type of hunter vs. another. No one should be promoting that and no one should accept that. If someone wants to hold themselves to a higher set of standards, great, but 'just do it'. Don't jam it down anyone else's throat. Lead, in ethics, by example vs. mandate.

I'd ask the two preeminent hunting organizations to come up with a singular set of ethics or rules of fair chase that apply to all hunters. That would eliminate some confusion and separation. These should 'then' be used as the basis for influencing rules at the state/local level for each of the hunting seasons. There should be no national standard for hunting laws, other then that the conform to a national concept of ethical behavior. 

At the state level, I'd develop common equipment restrictions that apply to groups of technologies. E.G. You must use a "bow" and arrow that achieves a KE/poundage/FPS speed (pick one that'll work) of at least X and no more than Y. You must use a firearm developing a KE of at least X but no more than Y. 

Let's get rid of the "laws" or "ethics" or "rules", that promote the absurd idea that hunting isn't competitive. It *IS* competitive on so many levels. Just because it is an intensely personal experience between a man/woman and nature, doesn't mean that there isn't a community experience/responsibility that goes hand in hand with what matters to I and ME.

A good question is

If it wasn't competitive, then why would we have the raging debates on this forum that we do?

Competition comes in multiple flavors:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=competition

_The act of competing, as for profit or a prize; rivalry. 

A test of skill or ability; a contest: a skating competition. 

Rivalry between two or more businesses striving for the same customer or market. 

A competitor: The competition has cornered the market. 

Ecology. The simultaneous demand by two or more organisms for limited environmental resources, such as nutrients, living space, or light. 

The process by which the activity or presence of one substance interferes with or suppresses the activity of another substance with similar affinities, as of antigens. 

The simultaneous demand by two or more organisms for limited environmental resources._


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## thesource (May 19, 2005)

oldbhtrnewequip said:


> At the state level, I'd develop common equipment restrictions that apply to groups of technologies. E.G. You must use a "bow" and arrow that achieves a KE/poundage/FPS speed (pick one that'll work) of at least X and no more than Y. You must use a firearm developing a KE of at least X but no more than Y.[/I][/U]


Well, its not exactly what you want, but IDAHO has some of the best defined and obviously thoroughly contemplated equipment laws that I have seen. You can see how they have taken the technology bull by the horns and how the P&Y version of fair chase has clearly influenced their rule making. The fact that they set a lower limit on arrow eight and broadhead size, combined with an upper limit on letoff and no expandable broadheads creates, to some extent, a speed limit for bows.

Notice with regard to electronic devices they include tritium powered as well, neatly closing that little loophole. 

_Archery — Archery Equipment
In any hunt, including general any-weapon seasons and
short-range hunts, it is unlawful to pursue or kill big game
animals:
• With arrows or bolts having broadheads measuring less
than 7/8 inch in width and having a primary cutting edge
less than 0.015 inch thick.
• With any bow having a peak draw weight of less than 40
pounds up to or at a draw of 28 inches.
• With an arrow wherein the broadhead does not precede
shaft and nock.
• With any chemicals or explosives attached to the arrow or
bolt.
• With arrows or bolts having expanding broadheads.
• With arrows or bolts having barbed broadheads. A barbed
broadhead is a broadhead that has any portion of the
broadhead forming an angle less than 90 degrees with the
shaft or ferrule.
• With any electronic or tritium-powered device attached to
an arrow or bow.
• With any bow capable of shooting more than one arrow at a
time.
• With any compound bow set at more than 65% let-off.
• With an arrow or bolt, and broadhead with a combined total
weight of less than 400 grains.
• With an arrow less than 12 inches from broadhead to nock
inclusive.



Archery-Only Season
Any person hunting in an archery-only season, including
controlled hunts, must have in possession their license with
archery permit validation. During an archery-only season, it is
illegal for hunters to use any firearm, crossbow, or implement
other than a longbow, compound bow, or recurve bow, or:
• Use any bow equipped with magnifying sights.
• Use any device that holds a bow at partial or full draw.
EXCEPT handicapped hunters possessing a permit
may use a device that holds a bow at partial or full draw.
(Applications for the use of devices holding a bow at partial
or full draw by handicapped hunters are available at IDFG
of. ces).
• EXCEPT handicapped hunters possessing a permit may
use a crossbow. (Applications for the use of crossbows by
handicapped hunters are available at IDFG of. ces)._

Quite comprehensive, I think, and very clear.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

source wants to cut back people's right to hunt

we are talking about laws to get rid of-not restricting rights source


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## Bellows1 (Oct 19, 2003)

Please, lets not turn every thread into a crossbow or fairchace debate.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

thesource said:


> Well, its not exactly what you want, but IDAHO has some of the best defined and obviously thoroughly contemplated equipment laws that I have seen. You can see how they have taken the technology bull by the horns and how the P&Y version of fair chase has clearly influenced their rule making. The fact that they set a lower limit on arrow eight and broadhead size, combined with an upper limit on letoff and no expandable broadheads creates, to some extent, a speed limit for bows.
> 
> Notice with regard to electronic devices they include tritium powered as well, neatly closing that little loophole.
> 
> ...


Quite comprehensive and quite exclusive of almost every setup in every other state. This is why I nearly immediately crossed Idaho off my list of places I would look at for an elk hunt. First, I'd have to buy a new bow. The letoff restriction is ridiculous and arbitrary. The electronic or tritium part (or the loophole as you call it) elinates loads of setups too. Not that it is that hard to remove a sight light but what is the big deal about that???  I guess the argument here is that it would encourage shooting when it was after hours. I've used my sight light at high-noon when hunting in thick, shadowy cover. P&Y had/has similarly stupid rules. Of course I really don't need P&Y or anyone else to tell my my animal is or isn't a trophy. (What's a trophy anyway?)


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

oldbhtrnewequip said:


> Let's get rid of the "laws" or "ethics" or "rules", that promote the absurd idea that hunting isn't competitive. It *IS* competitive on so many levels. Just because it is an intensely personal experience between a man/woman and nature, doesn't mean that there isn't a community experience/responsibility that goes hand in hand with what matters to I and ME.


It may be competitive for you and some others but certainly not for the vast majority of hunters I know. Maybe there was a time when it was but I think your priorities change as you get older.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

For me I would remove any and all laws opposing hunting on Sunday and any and all age restrictions. In Pennsylvania I would make hunting hours until a 1/2 hour after sunset. Instead of sunset. There are others I would change too but to mention them here would start a flame war so won't.


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## acsksbs (Apr 19, 2006)

allowing hunters to run dogs for deer. there's nothing like sitting in a stand for hours and hear a bunch of trucks pull up and let all there dogs out to push for deer. not to mention sitting in your stand and you got a herd of dogs under your tree barking and going crazy. and sunday.


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## Kickin_Killa (Aug 31, 2005)

I would get rid of the ''No hunting on Sundays in Pennsylvania''. That rule is just plain stupid!!!


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## Tim4Trout (Jul 10, 2003)

Bellows1 said:


> Please, lets not turn every thread into a crossbow or fairchace debate.


I agree.


-------


I do however take exception to the 65% limit on let-off as listed in the Idaho regs as posted above by "thesource" as many bowhunters including myself have compound bows that would be illegal in Idaho, but are perfectly OK in most other states. 

I believe Washington state has recently removed such a rule.


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## oldbhtrnewequip (Dec 30, 2005)

Maryland changes its regs every 2 years. The number 1 requested change this past year was the removal of the no hunting on sunday blue law.
Ain't happening from what I've seen.

More and more land here is being designated as special hunting areas which requires qualification. Izaak Walton and the various state and local DNR (some fed) entities are sponsoring/running it. I think its a good thing as long as the costs to qualify remain nominal. They have so far. 

That requires volunteers.

This past year we moved to a phone based check in system to reduce costs associated with deer check in stations, and salaries. they have an interactive voice response system on an 800 number of everyone state wide to use it. Brilliant move imho. I'd rather see us spending money on enforcement and education. 

We need to find other ways to fill the social void left by the change in tradition of hanging out at the check in station for an hour or two to see
what everyone is bringing in opening day of gun.


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## mabowhunter1974 (Mar 13, 2006)

No hunting on Sundays, and open our bow season into septmeber and into january.


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## MarinePride (Dec 4, 2005)

No hunting on Sunday is a law in VA that needs to go away, especially since the license fees have been increased. Also, in Roanoke County discharging a bow and arrow is not allowed in any of thier parks, even the ones that are deserted during the weekdays. . I should be allowed to set up my bag target and shoot on the ballfield if no one else is around.


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## rdneckhntr (Oct 23, 2005)

KYShooter said:


> Bowhunters not being allowed to carry a concealed weapon.



You are allowed in WV if you get a permit...





No hunting on sundays.


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## Buksknr53 (Mar 30, 2006)

I too live in Va. and wished that we had Sunday hunting. I was surprised to learn a few years ago that the Department Of Game And Inland Fisheries bring this issue to the table each year, and it is the hunters who shoot it down! The hunters who voted Sunday hunting down were concerned about church attendance declining, deer hounds interrupting church services, killing on Sunday and gun fire drowning out the preacher. All of their reasons had to do with churches or religion. Obviously, the nay sayers are not bow hunters.
I also believe their wives are laying down the law by proclaiming that "thou shall attend church on Sunday". At the very least, archery should be allowed on Sunday.
As for the license increase, I read an article about it that gave the game dept's reasons. It has been almost 20 years since the last increase when the license fee went from $7.50 to $12.50. There has been a significant decline in hunting license purchases in Va. The artical went on to say that the game dept. operates on what it takes in from license sales, boat registration, contributions and federal aid. Not a penny from the state.
I think we are lucky when you look at what other states charge their residents to hunt. With the increase, what we pay to hunt is still lower than a lot of states.


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## Oddball (Jun 14, 2006)

I live in Washington State. These are a coule of laws I don't agree with.

You cannot carry any firearm while bowhunting.
You cannot have any eletrical devices attached to your bow. (no lights)
You cannot have a bow that has a letoff that exceeds 65 percent.
You cannot use mechanical broadheads.
To hunt Elk you have to choose either Eastern or Western Washington.
You get 1 Deer and 1 Elk tag each year. That is it.
And the state has reduced the hunting areas so much. That you cannot sit in a deer or elk populated area for more than 20 minutes without seeing another hunter stomping through the woods. I hiked for 3 1/5 hours to get to my blind. I sat down and saw 2 hunters walk by about 3 or 4 times within the remaining day.

Last year, I could not find a spot to park my truck at my favorite hunting area. EVERY wide spot in the road had 1 and sometimes 2 or 3 trucks parked in it. I am not joking. It was insane. I left and went home and put up my bow for the year. I was so frusterated and dissapointed. This year I am thinking of spending the extra couple hundred bucks and going to oregon or Idaho. 

Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife is in place to make $$$. They are not there for the hunters or the wildlife in my opinion. 

My hunting buddy got ticketed for walking on the wrong side of a dirt road that was the border between an open area and a closed one. The officer told him that if he was on the other side of the road he would have been OK. However, if he was on the other side of the road he could see up the hill. We are talking about a difference of about 4 feet. Stupid!!!!!

Ok I am done venting now.


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## 963369 (Nov 15, 2003)

Eliminate the inane and stupid "no hunting on Sunday" rule(can we say religious extremism?). Fortunately, due to laws here in Maine, I can hunt certain farms 365 days a year due to the way the law is written.

While I think certain basic laws are useful, the plain fact is, we are bordering on being a gestapo police state, and heading closer every time we see a new law passed. Example? The POINT about what let off is my bow set for! I still have to draw, aim, and shoot properly. What's next, ying-yang exams to check my colonic health to see if I am fit to hunt that day ? Dagnabbit! I shouldn't be giving Adolph any more ideas...so sorry:zip: . THIS is why I am learning to build my own bows and arrows(long bows), and strings. The day may eventually come when I will HAVE to in order to retain my ability to hunt. And I *will*:wink: .


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