# Dead release or one with a follow through?



## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

I wish i had a video of Charlie Langston shooting a bow. He had a great release. Instant. Of course he shot wheels with 30% let off. He also shot like 85 pounds! Fingers come off really clean. I guess you could say he had a dead release. I heard a story once that to change a poor habit of his hand coming from his face, he put nails in a board and had his hand right beside the board on the tree. Anyway if he came away from his face, his hand would go into the nails. When he shot he stayed in his face. His Texas State records still stand from 1989 in BHFSL. One of the best finger shooters I have ever seen shoot. Remember these scores were pre carbon arrows, teardrop bow, no level, no pin guard. 

ROUND	SCORE	NAME	YEAR
Field 528 Charlie Langston	1989
Hunter 532 Charlie Langston	1989
Aggregate	1060 Charlie Langston	1989


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## Fingerdog56 (Sep 21, 2009)

Don, Gary and I had this very same discussion a month or so ago, I know you and Gary both shoot 'dead hand', and do it very well, but here are my thoughts as to why that style/form is more difficult to make repeatable. 
Picture yourself with a 25 lb bucket of sand, and a low bench or chair. Bend at the waist and put your bow hand on the bench, and pick up the bucket by the bail with your shooting fingers. Bring your fingers to your anchor point and release. Your hand will most likely recoil/fly back from the released weight of the bucket. The natural tendency of any muscle under tension, when the resisting force is released, is to spring back in the opposite direction of the force. With bow in hand, the 'natural' response when using back tension is for the hand/arm/shoulder unit to recoil in an arc from the released resistance at the shot. If you don't think this is true, try drawing with a release, and have someone else push the trigger. Surprise!!! The 'dead hand' release is a learned response, ie, you have to teach yourself to 'quit pulling' at the very instant that the load (holding weight) is released. It still amazes me our brains can do this subconsciously! That it can be done consistently is evidenced by the scores that you and Gary shoot. That being said, when push comes to shove, and outside pressures come into play, that required balance of pull/don't pull is one of the first casualties of form breakdown. I think too, that that type of release is more conducive to TP when the pressure is on. Just my thoughts, looking forward to reading more input on this. Don


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## Fingerdog56 (Sep 21, 2009)

Dragonheart, I only watched Charlie shoot once, back in '92 or '93 @ Fresno Safari. I always made it a point to watch the best shooters, to see if I could pick up any thing from them. IIRC, Charlie had a release very similar to mine, staying on the face but with a slight recoil from back tension (1/2 to 3/4"). Maybe we need to qualify what we mean by 'Dead Hand'? What I've gathered, (I don't shoot that way, so maybe I'm wrong) is that 'dead hand' is NO rearward movement in reaction to the shot. Whether the hand stays on the face is not an issue. Don, Gary, anyone? Maybe I'm looking @ this wrong?


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## eric schmaus (Mar 7, 2011)

Dead release for me. I've done it this way for over 30 years. Dont really know why it's just the way I've always done it. Seems to work well!


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

I always thought I had a dead release. I never tried to do the whole touch the shoulder thing or any of that stuff but when I started paying attention to it, I noticed that my elbow would come back on the shot and my finger tip would still be around the corner of my mouth (back just a 1/2" or so maybe) but my fingers would be straight. So I guess I've been shooting with back tension this whole time but just didn't realize it because I don't over exaggerate my follow through.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

My release is so dead sometimes I can smell it


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

2413gary said:


> My release is so dead sometimes I can smell it


Good one! Bad thing is I know what you mean.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

I think we need to do some slo mo video on our realese I'm pretty sure I shoot a dead release with my compound but my recurve is whole new story. 
Gary


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## sidekick (Feb 10, 2006)

2413gary said:


> My release is so dead sometimes I can smell it


That made me laugh. Now I know what I've been smelling, I'm trying to concentrate more on back tension as it just makes sense to me.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Gary, 
I will see if i can do slow mo with my camera. If i can i will post up a vid.
Don.9


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## Boyd (Feb 7, 2003)

Here is a video I had my wife take about a year ago.

I have a “Follow Through” release.




I will set my shot up at the back of the wall, pull against it (not pulling hard, just against the back), aim, aim, aim... and by the time the shot goes off my hand and finger (I hold with one finger) have completely relaxed.

I’ve tried to shoot a dead release or a command release with little success. Not saying they don’t work just that they don’t work for me. I’ve watched a number of shooters and have seen a number of different styles of release. When one works for you, it works for you.


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## Fingerdog56 (Sep 21, 2009)

Easy way to tell if you have a dead release; At full draw, back up to a wall or tree, with your elbow 1/2 " or so from the wall or tree, and touch 'er off. If your elbow comes back @ the shot and whacks the tree, you're pulling through. I try to shoot with a relaxed hand and forearm, just tension on the fingertips to hook the string, but I have to consciously release the string, almost like 'punching' a release. Okay...now, no wait...okay now! Crap!


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

hey when you getting a haircut?


Boyd said:


> Here is a video I had my wife take about a year ago.
> 
> I have a “Follow Through” release.
> 
> ...


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

Follow-through for me. I had a couple of coaches work on my release when I started and they really helped out.


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## Boyd (Feb 7, 2003)

2413gary said:


> hey when you getting a haircut?


Getting one tonight Gary, I need to keep sharp looking for work. :wink:


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Boyd you bring up two things I don't like to do... one is haircut and the other is that 4 letter word.... work


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## Boyd (Feb 7, 2003)

rsarns said:


> Boyd you bring up two things I don't like to do... one is haircut and the other is that 4 letter word.... work


Sorry Ren, I'll try to do better next time, however...

Not to throw Gary under the bus but he brought up the haircut thing. :angel:


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

hahaha No worries, its that work word that gets to me... sometimes I think maybe I should get a part time job... then I remember how hard I worked to be able to retire and not have to worry too much and it would interfere with me being a "domestic engineer" now....


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Retired that's why you can't afford a haircut on a fixed income lol


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

rsarns said:


> hahaha No worries, its that work word that gets to me... sometimes I think maybe I should get a part time job... then I remember how hard I worked to be able to retire and not have to worry too much and it would interfere with me being a "domestic engineer" now....


I retired in December and have since learned several useful skills. How to run the washer and dryer, dishwasher, and vaccum cleaner, along with some serious yard work. None of that has helped my archery any but it sure has made me realize what I missed all those years traveling all over the place. With a little planning a "domestic engineer" can have all the work done by 10:00 and spend the rest of the day shooting, fletching arrows, or playing golf. It's tough but some of us have to do it!


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Old Sarge said:


> I retired in December and have since learned several useful skills. How to run the washer and dryer, dishwasher, and vaccum cleaner, along with some serious yard work. None of that has helped my archery any but it sure has made me realize what I missed all those years traveling all over the place. With a little planning a "domestic engineer" can have all the work done by 10:00 and spend the rest of the day shooting, fletching arrows, or playing golf. It's tough but some of us have to do it!


Sounds like we have a lot in common... Its amazing but I have figured out all those domestic things, and have the afternoon pretty much to shoot. Or if I feel like it, head to the range early and then still get home and get all those chores done before the wife gets home from work...  Did I say I love being retired?


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

rsarns said:


> Sounds like we have a lot in common... Its amazing but I have figured out all those domestic things, and have the afternoon pretty much to shoot. Or if I feel like it, head to the range early and then still get home and get all those chores done before the wife gets home from work...  Did I say I love being retired?


You are a lucky man!


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

rsarns said:


> Sounds like we have a lot in common... Its amazing but I have figured out all those domestic things, and have the afternoon pretty much to shoot. Or if I feel like it, head to the range early and then still get home and get all those chores done before the wife gets home from work...  Did I say I love being retired?


Having the wife still working is really nice. I'd say that we planned well and married a child bride.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

This isn't slow motion but you can see my release. My firend Jon shooting his long bow and me shooting my Shadowcat.
There are also vids of me shooting once you click on the link, compound and recurve, right or left handed my realse is dead.
Just like Gary said it's so dead you can smell it....LOL
http://youtu.be/IDrja3_k9oo 
Don.


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## Rhys A (Jun 18, 2010)

Guys , 
I shoot with a follow through release and always have . 

I was told as a young fellow to keep my bow arm straight out until the arrow hits the target and bring my release hand back until my thumb touched my shoulder.

My shot has always been about balanced back tension, and the thought of a balanced push--- pull theory.

I have video's , but have no idea how to post them, Will try tomorrow .

Don , your releaseis awesome for a dead one , no movement there ..and I can smell it in Down under !

Rhys


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Rhys

Would love to see those videos


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

OBE made this for me.
Here is a short slo mo video of me shooting my left hand Shadowcat.
Just remember I am still learning how to shoot left handed and I don't have everything down yet, as far as holding everything still.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wco8-DdvMhk


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## Rhys A (Jun 18, 2010)

Hey guys and Gals,

Not sure if this has worked properly , but I uploaded this to youtube I think.

This is not an exaggerated follow through and if I am shooting well is a very consistant follow through.


http://youtu.be/Lt4WOva_CvM

I wish I could slow it down like OBE did .

Rhys


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## Rhys A (Jun 18, 2010)

And he is another one a little closer up.

I don't claim to have a perfect release , but I can shoot multiple arrows through a chrono and achieve the exact same reading of 304FPS. The most I have been out so far is 3FPS, ( Plucked the S*&T out of it ) 

I do shoot delibrately through a chrono on occassions. This is a great way to see how consistantly you are releasing and holding against the wall. 

I do challenge those that choose to shoot from the valley to try this and see how things go.:wink::darkbeer: 

http://youtu.be/sMjhOh-L7UE

Rhys


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

OK I know a lot of the guys on this forum are dead hand shooters and that form has long since been abandon by the top shooters. I'm not much for the arguments of authority but if you watch any of the top Olympic archers you'll note they ALL have a follow through. This is because the release is supposed to be as close to a surprise as your subconscious can make it. If your hand doesn't move then you have stopped pulling back on the string at the exact moment the arrow is released. This means you your brain has to be anticipating the shot. Now I'm not a big fan of touching your shoulder in my coaching but I do expect the hand to move backwards through the release.

Take a look at the top ranked archer in the world. If you are going to emulate someone start here.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Bender shooting a recurve you are correct but the dead release I shoot out of my Hoyt cam and 1/2 is quite a different story I have been shooting a dead hand for 5 years and it serves me well and is very accurate.
Gary


b0w_bender said:


> OK I know a lot of the guys on this forum are dead hand shooters and that form has long since been abandon by the top shooters. I'm not much for the arguments of authority but if you watch any of the top Olympic archers you'll note they ALL have a follow through. This is because the release is supposed to be as close to a surprise as your subconscious can make it. If your hand doesn't move then you have stopped pulling back on the string at the exact moment the arrow is released. This means you your brain has to be anticipating the shot. Now I'm not a big fan of touching your shoulder in my coaching but I do expect the hand to move backwards through the release.
> 
> Take a look at the top ranked archer in the world. If you are going to emulate someone start here.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

2413gary said:


> Bender shooting a recurve you are correct but the dead release I shoot out of my Hoyt cam and 1/2 is quite a different story I have been shooting a dead hand for 5 years and it serves me well and is very accurate.
> Gary


Lets be clear here. No where in my post did I say you in particular should abandon the dead release. I simply stated that the best finger shooters in the world shoot with a follow through. Now I will say if you are using back tension to shoot, I fail to see how you can do it the correct way without a follow through. The idea is to load the back muscles so that all of the weight of the bow is on them and not the arm. upon release you are supposed to expand. So the expansion is what causes the follow through. I have spoken with several of the level 4 coaches on the topic and they concur this is just as relevant for a compound shooter as for recurve shooter

Of course there are a lot of competent shooters who persist with the dead hand release and if it works for you then by all means continue on with it. But I believe the question was "what are your thoughts" My thoughts are that the best release is one with a follow through. I shoot both recurve Olympic style but mostly compounds I have done a lot of experimenting my conclusion is without question the follow through is the best.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Bender 
didn't think you were telling me to abandon my release. Just never could get consistant with a follow thru release with my compound.
Gary


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

b0w_bender said:


> Lets be clear here. No where in my post did I say you in particular should abandon the dead release. I simply stated that the best finger shooters in the world shoot with a follow through. Now I will say if you are using back tension to shoot, I fail to see how you can do it the correct way without a follow through. The idea is to load the back muscles so that all of the weight of the bow is on them and not the arm. upon release you are supposed to expand. So the expansion is what causes the follow through. I have spoken with several of the level 4 coaches on the topic and they concur this is just as relevant for a compound shooter as for recurve shooter
> 
> Of course there are a lot of competent shooters who persist with the dead hand release and if it works for you then by all means continue on with it. But I believe the question was "what are your thoughts" My thoughts are that the best release is one with a follow through. I shoot both recurve Olympic style but mostly compounds I have done a lot of experimenting my conclusion is without question the follow through is the best.


Bender, your statement that the BEST finger shooters in the world shoot with a follow thru release is totally biased and bogus. Who made you the expert on who the best finger shooters are? Obviously, you feel that olympic recurve shooters are the best finger shooters in the world. My contention is that your lack of knowledge of the top finger shooters in a lot of different styles of shooting in this country and others disqualify you to make any assertions about the dead release. And, by the way, Brady is a great archer but he is not the top ranked finger shooter in the world, he is the top ranked olympic recurve shooter in the world. My feeling is that you have never even seen a top dead release shooter and your explanation of how back tension works such that it makes a dead release impossible is off the scale wrong.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

itbeso said:


> Bender, your statement that the BEST finger shooters in the world shoot with a follow thru release is totally biased and bogus. Who made you the expert on who the best finger shooters are? Obviously, you feel that olympic recurve shooters are the best finger shooters in the world. My contention is that your lack of knowledge of the top finger shooters in a lot of different styles of shooting in this country and others disqualify you to make any assertions about the dead release. And, by the way, Brady is a great archer but he is not the top ranked finger shooter in the world, he is the top ranked olympic recurve shooter in the world. My feeling is that you have never even seen a top dead release shooter and your explanation of how back tension works such that it makes a dead release impossible is off the scale wrong.


I knew weighing in on this subject was a bad idea. Many dead hand shooters are that way because they are set in their ways and can't stand to hear criticism. It's unfortunate that this has stooped to personal attacks. Well of course you are entitled to you opinion and I accept that. But I doubt you know whether I have seen any top notch dead hand finger shooters. I certainly have and I've seen a bunch of them do really really well. I've sat and watched the pros in Vegas and the majority shoot with a follow through with the exception of the instinctive shooters. They seem to prefer the dead hand. I suspect it has to do with the high anchor point. They are extremely proficient I don't dispute that, they are very very good. They are also a small niche. The question raised is, is it because of the dead hand or in-spite of it? Now I've taught back tension as a coach for years with fingers and release and recurve and compound. I've worked with coaches at the highest level and so if you would like to dispute my methods that's fine but sight your sources and describe your process. I have yet to read a book or article that disputes what I said above.

By the way Brady has also shot at the highest level with a compound too (Using a release). I'm sure if you asked him he would not recommend the dead hand method for any stile of shooting. (although I don't want to put words in his mouth) Now the rankings are in place based on performances and they compete at the very highest levels. Yes they are Olympic shooters but I've seen very few humans able to hit a 6" circle consistently at 77 yards the way that they do. 

Now if you want to posit dead hand is better please tell me why? Attacking me and sighting personal experience is not of any value to me. Why would it work best for the majority of shooters. Why would you encourage or start a new archer out as a dead hand shooter when only a small portion of the archery community uses it? Perhaps the dead hand works better for the high anchor point the question is why?


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

2413gary said:


> Bender
> didn't think you were telling me to abandon my release. Just never could get consistant with a follow thru release with my compound.
> Gary


Garry I bet if you worked with a coach you would have had a different experience. 
Having said that when I start working with someone, one of the criteria I use to justify a change is if they are dissatisfied with their shooting. If you are happy with the way that you shoot than by all means stick with it. I have stated repeatedly that you can become very good with a dead release, I don't think there is any dispute there. Many folks that compete at the highest levels of competition would not however represent it as the best option. If it works for you or for anyone else on this forum then as a coach I may not even recommend a change.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

b0w_bender said:


> I knew weighing in on this subject was a bad idea. Many dead hand shooters are that way because they are set in their ways and can't stand to hear criticism. It's unfortunate that this has stooped to personal attacks. Well of course you are entitled to you opinion and I accept that. But I doubt you know whether I have seen any top notch dead hand finger shooters. I certainly have and I've seen a bunch of them do really really well. I've sat and watched the pros in Vegas and the majority shoot with a follow through with the exception of the instinctive shooters. They seem to prefer the dead hand. I suspect it has to do with the high anchor point. They are extremely proficient I don't dispute that, they are very very good. They are also a small niche. The question raised is, is it because of the dead hand or in-spite of it? Now I've taught back tension as a coach for years with fingers and release and recurve and compound. I've worked with coaches at the highest level and so if you would like to dispute my methods that's fine but sight your sources and describe your process. I have yet to read a book or article that disputes what I said above.
> 
> By the way Brady has also shot at the highest level with a compound too (Using a release). I'm sure if you asked him he would not recommend the dead hand method for any stile of shooting. (although I don't want to put words in his mouth) Now the rankings are in place based on performances and they compete at the very highest levels. Yes they are Olympic shooters but I've seen very few humans able to hit a 6" circle consistently at 77 yards the way that they do.
> 
> Now if you want to posit dead hand is better please tell me why? Attacking me and sighting personal experience is not of any value to me. Why would it work best for the majority of shooters. Why would you encourage or start a new archer out as a dead hand shooter when only a small portion of the archery community uses it? Perhaps the dead hand works better for the high anchor point the question is why?


Bender, You have the same persecution complex as a lot of other posters on here who make absolute statements and then get called on them. One thing at a time. Weighing in on this subject was not a bad idea, the way you weighed in was the bad idea. You insulted a lot of the best archers in the world with your blanket statement. You say that many dead release shooters are set in their ways and can't stand criticism, yet you cry foul when criticized.. Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle black? You call the barebow shooters a small niche. I would wager that the olympic style shooters in this country are the small niche and the barebow crowd would dwarf them in real numbers. The real problem here is that coaches, like yourself apparently, are set in their ways and can't seem to comprehend any other style of shooting form that varies from what they have been taught and then consequently teach, and then their students will teach the same,and so on.You ask me to sight my sources and I can't do that,but, I will cite my sources. I think that everyone realizes that olympic archery is the darling of the archery world. Field archery apparently will never get the publicity that the olympic years bring to our sport. For that reason, books by and about olympic champions are the books that will be popular and sell enough to at least break even for the authors. I personally have never seen a book that details all of the different form styles used in field archery. So, because of the prevalence of reference books on olympic style archery form and shooting style it seems to me that most of the coaches out there follow what has been in print and lack the ambition and curiosity to check out alternative coaching techniques. As far as my sources, they aren't books, rather they are some of the finest finger shooters our sport has known starting with "Gentleman Jim Pickering", the first man to shoot an indoor 300 in a major tournament. In my opinion, the reason the dead release works so well for the barebow crowd is the placement of the anchor. Most of us anchor on the side of our faces rather than under the chin. By using our thumb to cup under the jaw and placing our index or middle finger finger in the corner of the mouth, this creates a "locked in" anchor that is very consistent and makes the eye--- arrow--- spot relationship much more accurate and repetitive. It has been my experience that when I deviate from the dead release(for example, pull my hand away from my face upon release) the arrow usually goes right. The under the chin anchor used by most olympic style shooters is good for that style because of the nature of the beast,to wit: they are for the most part shooting long distances and need the lower anchor to get the distance out of their recurves. There is no way to lock in that anchor, hence the dynamic movement upon release. In closing, Yes I know Brady shot a release very well. As a matter of fact, back In 2005 , Brady was on the Arizona team for the Duel In The Desert tournament with California. He had just got back from winning the World Junior target championships with compound and release. As it turned out, he and I were paired up to shoot against each other and I beat him so bad that the next time he showed up at a tournament, he was shooting olympic style. That's why all the oly guys don't like me:wink: Any way that's the story I tell everyone even if It does take license with his real reason for going to recurve. And yes, I do consider Brady a friend so I hope everyone realizes this little aside is all in fun.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

good god Ben break up your text - I read most of what you put down - but this last one was HARD to read

Matt


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Matt_Potter said:


> good god Ben break up your text - I read most of what you put down - but this last one was HARD to read
> 
> Matt


Matt I forgot you were on here. I should have used more pictures.:wink:


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

Big pictures - we Montana boys are sort of SLOW

Question - having watched you shoot I wouldn't call your release dead (or at least not stinky dead) the hand comes back enough to show that you are engaging your back - once you find the spot and steady the bow are you consciously engaging your back or are you just relaxing the fore arm to achieve your release??

Matt


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Matt_Potter said:


> Big pictures - we Montana boys are sort of SLOW
> 
> Question - having watched you shoot I wouldn't call your release dead (or at least not stinky dead) the hand comes back enough to show that you are engaging your back - once you find the spot and steady the bow are you consciously engaging your back or are you just relaxing the fore arm to achieve your release??
> 
> Matt


Matt, I'm in Gary's camp regarding the dead release and recurve. Shooting a compound and fingers my release is as dead as I can get it. Shooting the recurve, It is much harder to execute a good dead release but keep in mind that 1973 was the last year that I shot a recurve on a consistent basis and in the interim I haven't shot a recurve for more than probably 30 days total before I started shootin one again last December. When I shot with you in may I was still struggling with relearning the whole recurve form thing. I feel that as time progresses I will be able to use the dead release effectively with my recurve. Time will tell. I try to engage my back muscles at the beginning of my draw and lock them in as I anchor. It is then a matter of push and pull to execute the shot properly.I just haven't gotten that part down pat yet:angry: Try a little trick for me. When you pull initially, pull low, kind of like what we would say a girl pulls like. This actually engages the back muscles immediately and makes it easier to lock them at full draw. By low, I mean pull across the chest, not up at face level.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

Ben

One of my anchor points is string touching my eyebrow once I hit anchor I slightly increase the pressure on my eyebrow this engages my back - once I fine tune my aim I increase the pressure on my eyebrow until the shot goes off.

I'll give the across the chest draw a try - I have a lower anchor than most barebow guys so engaging the back isn't that hard for me - I find other things to make hard

Matt


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Matt_Potter said:


> Ben
> 
> One of my anchor points is string touching my eyebrow once I hit anchor I slightly increase the pressure on my eyebrow this engages my back - once I fine tune my aim I increase the pressure on my eyebrow until the shot goes off.
> 
> ...


AAAh yes, the old eyebrow clicker trick. ooop[s, clickers aren't allowed. Forget I said that.LOL


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm printing this page it's not often itbeso's in my camp let's not bring up the cam & 1/2's


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

itbeso said:


> Bender, You have the same persecution complex ....


*itbeso*, I've truncated the quote to spare everyone the long text. I'll simply say perhaps my statements were a bit sweeping and if that's the case I apologize. It was not my intent to slander.

One of the reasons I think the instinctive group often imparts a dead release is the high anchor, as you also stated. My perspective is that it is likely difficult to get your elbow high enough to avoid a downward pull when performing a follow through. This alone would likely foster better results with a dead hand. So perhaps with a high anchor you may be able to convince me that a dead hand has some advantages. There see I can be reasoned with :toothy2:

*zestycj7* I'll bet you had no idea what kind of can of worms you were opening when you asked this question.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

b0w_bender said:


> *itbeso*, I've truncated the quote to spare everyone the long text. I'll simply say perhaps my statements were a bit sweeping and if that's the case I apologize. It was not my intent to slander.
> 
> One of the reasons I think the instinctive group often imparts a dead release is the high anchor, as you also stated. My perspective is that it is likely difficult to get your elbow high enough to avoid a downward pull when performing a follow through. This alone would likely foster better results with a dead hand. So perhaps with a high anchor you may be able to convince me that a dead hand has some advantages. There see I can be reasoned with :toothy2:
> 
> *zestycj7* I'll bet you had no idea what kind of can of worms you were opening when you asked this question.


Just another instance where we weed out all the differences and find something we can agree on. It's makes for interesting repartee. I don't look at these difference of opinions in a negative light as some do, There always seems to be something I can learn from most discussions. I learned something from you that I am going to try. If it works fine, if not I haven't lost anything by trying.Good luck with your coaching.


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## Boyd (Feb 7, 2003)

2413gary said:


> I'm printing this page it's not often itbeso's in my camp let's not bring up the *cam & 1/2's*


I’ve always liked you Gary.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

2413gary said:


> I'm printing this page it's not often itbeso's in my camp let's not bring up the cam & 1/2's


You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I meant to say that I would be in your Bear camp.:angel:


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

All you guys crack me up...lol
This has turned out to be a good thread, lots of good ideas and friendly banter.
Don.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

zestycj7 said:


> All you guys crack me up...lol
> This has turned out to be a good thread, lots of good ideas and friendly banter.
> Don.


Don, A lot of the posters get upset when confronted with alternative views. I find there are a lot of things posted that I don't agree with but everyonce in a while I find little gems that help my game and those times are worth all the (hopefully friendly) arguments. You are right about the friendly banter, It is a hoot to spar with friends and I hope everone realizes that when we are doing that , it is friendly banter.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Don lets get ome thing straight he's my friend but I don't like him
Gary


zestycj7 said:


> All you guys crack me up...lol
> This has turned out to be a good thread, lots of good ideas and friendly banter.
> Don.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

itbeso said:


> AAAh yes, the old eyebrow clicker trick. ooop[s, clickers aren't allowed. Forget I said that.LOL


Yeah - I thought I was so freeking clever figuring it out on the bale in my back yard - turns out people have been doing it for years - works great when you do it right

Matt


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Itbeso, thanks for your insights on the dead release. I have always found that the dead hand works better for me with a compound but not so much with a recurve. With a compound I can feel it early on if I start to creep a little bit and because of the relatively low holding weight I can regroup and start pulling again. With a recurve, especially one of hunting weight I have to constantly keep reminding myself to finish the shot and not creep. Once the creep starts with a recurve it's all over for me I have a very difficult time not releasing. I guess it's why I shoot compounds better(among other things) but with a recurve I just can't get used to a dead release.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Old Sarge said:


> Itbeso, thanks for your insights on the dead release. I have always found that the dead hand works better for me with a compound but not so much with a recurve. With a compound I can feel it early on if I start to creep a little bit and because of the relatively low holding weight I can regroup and start pulling again. With a recurve, especially one of hunting weight I have to constantly keep reminding myself to finish the shot and not creep. Once the creep starts with a recurve it's all over for me I have a very difficult time not releasing. I guess it's why I shoot compounds better(among other things) but with a recurve I just can't get used to a dead release.


I am so used to the dead release with my compounds that I'm hoping I can make it work well with the recurve. I'll report back on that subject in a couple of months to give an update.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

you can make it work if you want to. I've tried and found shooting a recurve is just different than a compound and it was just easier to shoot follow through. Probably because there's no wall or valley....just pull through.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Here is a video of me shooting my recurve.
Still pretty much a dead release shooting it too. I shot this video my 2nd. day shooting the recurve.
It's fun to shoot, but man it tears up the tip of my ring finger...lol
Don.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCdyWHS32Xw


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## OBE (Dec 4, 2009)

Rhys A said:


> Hey guys and Gals,
> 
> Not sure if this has worked properly , but I uploaded this to youtube I think.
> 
> ...


Here you go...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_YdqsACX2s&feature=youtu.be


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## OBE (Dec 4, 2009)

zestycj7 said:


> Here is a video of me shooting my recurve.
> Still pretty much a dead release shooting it too. I shot this video my 2nd. day shooting the recurve.
> It's fun to shoot, but man it tears up the tip of my ring finger...lol
> Don.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCdyWHS32Xw


Here you go....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoEaffNqOBk&feature=youtu.be


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