# Is your 4th axis correct?



## HNSB (Jul 1, 2004)

Any idea on pricing yet?

I need at least one, maybe 4.


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Bad news Good news!*

Bad news first: The quotes are a bit on the high side. So far I cannot consider pricing at a distributor level as I wanted to do. I suspect that the retail price will be $75.00 which is higher that I wanted it to be.  I understand that there are a lot of holes to drill and tap. :sad: 

Good news:  I am going to offer a introductory price of $60.00 a unit plus $6.50 Priority mail for one month. That time will start when I have product done and ready to ship. Expected ETA is April 10th. I will continue to explore other machining possibilities and hopefully will be able to leave that price alone or have a minimal increase. One color at this time will be black.

It would be a great help to me if you folks that are interested, would send me an e-mail to tell me that. Send to: [email protected] 

I like to use PayPal but will also except money orders.

Thanks for all the interest!


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Brain surgery!*

Don't make brain surgery out of leveling your sight. :wink: 

Forget about the bow, get a leveling device and level 2nd and 3rd axes off the bow. Then get the Tek-Tech 4th Axis tool and tune the sight extension to the arrow path by actually shooting it in. Done deal!  

In order for the Tek-Tech 4th axis tool to work your sight bubble HAS TO BE perpendicular to the sight extension. You can't do that at full draw! 

By the way folks, my web site is limping along again and the leveling instructions are up and running. Go to: www.archerytech.com and check it out.  

Thanks for your patience!


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## Ausie-guy (Dec 7, 2002)

> I had a nice old timer over a few days ago.


Ken.
Thanks for the compliment I usually get called a cranky old bass turd  



> I checked both of his sight on Genes 3rd axis leveler. They were both way off. We set them right and discussed the 4th axis concept. He understood it right away.


I had set my 2nd and 3rd axis in the conventual way and was very surprised to say the least that they where that far off.

Yesterday I decided to something out of the ordinary with my practice 1st I set up my tree stand to simulate a down hill shot and unlike before the further I moved the target out my shots where spot on no left/ rights.

Then I put my block taget in the tree stand platform (not an easy task) to simulate a up hill shot and shot again and once more no left or rights so IMHO this system does work and work well.

I know what had done during my testing was to an extreme with the up/down angle but my curiosty had to be put at ease :smile: 

Now if I can only get time to go and shoot some 3d tournements and whoop some young butt


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## adam Guggisberg (Jan 28, 2003)

Mine is being shipped today.. :shade: 

Adam


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## bigmo101 (Oct 19, 2004)

What kind of a sight can be used with this 4th axis deal? I really like this because of the uphill and downhill shots.


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Most any sight!*

bigmo101,

Most any sight can be used but if the sight does not have a moveable (in or out) extension and a 3rd axis adjustment it is a bit more involved to set up.

Lets say that your sight has a stationary mount, no 3rd axis adjustment and no slideable extension. Then you have to set the 4th axis ( and the 3rd axis at the same time) by shooting up hill and then down hill. If you see a horizontal error you need to move the 4th axis a little bit and shoot again. This could take a little time but once you have achieved center hits both up and down you are done.

If your sight has a 3rd axis adjustment and a slideable extension you need to set the third axis off the bow. Then mount the 4th axis accessory and your sight on your bow and at a distance of 10 yards with the sight all the way in against the bow shoot at the vertical line. (adjust your windage) When you hit the line, then slide the sight out to be fully extended and shoot at the line again. If there is a difference in vertical impact you need to adjust the 4th axis a bit and shoot the line again. Once you are hitting the line in both positions you will need to get new sight marks as the sight mount will be either forward or behind the normal position depending on where you want to mount it.

PS: I am still having fits with my web site :angry: and will notify all when the problems are solved. Check it occasionally: www.archerytech.com


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Up and running!*

Well folks, I have finally fixed my web site. It is sure the pits when you are a computer dunce  and don’t know what you did or how to fix it. Fortunately I have a programmer friend that performs miracles. :thumbs_up It is up and running again. You can visit there and learn about setting all the axes of your sight and the concept of the 4th Axis. It’s all free to read! I hope it helps some of you to understand the finer points of bow and arrow setup. There is more to come. The information on this site has been gathered over about 45 years of competing and in most cases came from techniques of the best archers in the world. Please feel free to browse. www.archerytech.com


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*News Flash!*

Update!

I have added a page to my web site today that will allow for input from the users of the 4th Axis. This feedback will be limited to tuning techniques. If any of you find a way that you really like and want to share it with the rest of us, please respond on my web site. This concept is so new that we are all learning new things about it as we go along. Myself included. It has been so rainy here that I have not had a real chance to put it through all the paces. 

I will be posting other tuning tips on there also. Today I also added one about setting the center-shot of your bow by using a “Walk-up” method. This is a cool tool! Check it out!

For now go to www.archerytech.com and click on the 4th Axis Tips button. (The red one) I hope that it can help you all understand and realize the value of your sight being in line with your “Arrow Path”.

Shoot well my friends!


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## Joe C. (Mar 18, 2003)

I think my 4th axis is correct


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## dahmer (Jan 16, 2005)

LOL. Field dressed and hanging, looks correct to me. Now the question. How much improvement will the average shooter realize from switching to these concepts?


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Absolutely!*

Joe C.,

Without a doubt yours is correct. Don't change a thing! :wink: 

You got some nice deer too.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I mounted mine to the front. Sliding your sight in and out makes childs play out of setting your sight parrallel to the arrow path.

Even I can do it. :tongue:


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

Gene,
I did a lot of reading of the 4th axis threads and then another bunch of thinking it out myself and I think your concept is dead on. I'm shooting a Bowman Accu-riser with a CBE sight and it tested right on for the 4th axis (lucky me).
A couple of comments though which may save people some time. 1) When testing to see if you're windage is on after setting up your sight, I think you only have to do either uphill or downhill, not both. It can't possibly be ON shooting uphill and be OFF going downhill. If it was, how would you adjust the downhill without screwing up the uphill!!
)2 I don't think the walkup method for adjusting centershot is valid. If your sight is held level and you hit a vertical line at 10 yds. I don't see how you center shot can effect hitting the same line at any distance. I picture in my mind, a line of targets 10, 20 and 30 yds behind the one you shot at 10 yds, each with the tape lined up with the front one. How would the arrow which hit the tape at 10 yards, veer off course, left or right, to miss the tapes set downrange. I'm not a super shot but I have a few 550's in Field and the testing I did showed that the only thing I changed by making large changes in centershot was the right-left point of impact. When I adjusted that out with the sight, my vertical alignment for the walkback test was still fine.
Mull these two things over with Ken and see if my thoughts are correct or off base. I don't know if you remember shooting with me at Darrington 2 years ago but you guys worked me over pretty good about being a "Pro" shooting with the amatuers.
Joe Bauernfeind


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Right On!*

Joe,

Sure I remember shooting with you in Darrington. How could I forget all the crap we gave you? :wink: 

As far as the 4th Axis is concerned, it is working well for the folks that have them. Dean tells me that he shot a 549 Hunter yesterday and is happy with the product. Another friend of mine shot a new PR for the Redding shoot and says it added 10 points to his score minimum. That is a bunch when you are breaking the 1500 barrier at Redding. I personally was pleased as I had no lefts or rights except the ones that were effected by operator error. :wink: 

It appears that the number of points added to the score is in proportion to the skill level of the archer. I would bet that Roger Willett, Logan Wilde, DC, and Jesse Broadwater would have liked a couple more points at Redding.

As far as the walk-up method for centershot is concerned, it is done at 15 yards and under. It is designed to correct any fishtailing or bad arrow flight coming out of the bow. Granted, if your arrow flight is good or even not real good you will not see an impact difference from say 20 yards out because the arrow has already stabilized.

Your Bowman Accuriser is the second one I know of that has tested good with the "In-Out" test. Stewart builds a good bow! However, the Tek-Tech 4th Axis will not fit an Accuriser as yet anyway. I will make a small change on the next production run.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

Gene,
I can see that up close it might have some value but if you read most of the posts about walk back tuning, most people think that centershot has the same effect as sight leveling. Somehow they think that even though your sight level is right, a poor centershot adjustment will cause your shots to miss either left or right as you move back from the target, with the error increasing the further you go back. Before the walkback test came into vogue the procedure was to adjust the sight windage at 20 yds and then correct any errors, left or right, at 80 yds by changing the centershot. That never made sense to me either.
Do you agree with my other concept, that you only have to test your results either uphill or downhill, not both?
I bet you keep busy on the computer answering all the questions. Hope to see you in Yankton and maybe getting to shoot with you again. I'm going to use the new rule letting you resign from the Pro Division, so I'll be back shooting against Dean again. I wish you hadn't shown him your gadget, he was tough enough already.
Joe B.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

*4th*

i am going to give one a try this week tek-tech 4th axis 
with a martin x cam should work great any help on up 
and down hils would be great


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

ttt


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Good info!*

zenarch,

You are right about your 1st concept also. It is not possible to be off line up hill and on line downhill. 

Yes I have heard of folks that shoot at 20 to get the line and them go to 80 and adjust the centershot. I don't understand why anyone would mess with centershot and arrow flight to make this adjustment. This does not fix the problem of arrow path alignment.

First get good arrow flight, set your 3rd axis off the bow or at brace height, shim your mount and shoot in the arrow path alignment, OR PUT ON A TEK-TECH 4TH AXIS :teeth: and adjust it to the arrow path and go. The problem with shimming your mount is that it will leave a little air gap between the mount and the riser and can cause the mount to bend when you tighten the screws. Then when you change the sight to another bow it won't fit flat. :thumbs_do 

I believe that your Accuriser is probably right on the money. However, I would do the "In-Out" test at about 40 yards. Then you will know for sure. I ended up finishing my set-up at 55 yards. I thought it was on at 40. Go figure!  I just shot at a dot instead of a line. Make sure you make a sight adjustment as the impact change from in to out might make you miss the bale. 

I will not be able to go to the Nationals this year. Just can't get away.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

Gene,
Sorry to hear you won't be there. Right now I'm trying to find the solution to a left/right problem I'm having. My groups (when I shoot one) seem to jump from one side to the other. It's probably me. I haven't shot much and maybe when I get my shot working better the bow will cure itself. I hope you do as well with your products as I've done with my releases. It's been a lot of fun for me.
Joe B.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

*4th*

4th axis is a great tool for bow sight it will help shooting on the level ground and on hills shot my yesterday and it is easy to set up and shoots great i set my up at 10 yards then went back to 40 yards to check right on 
new time i go shooting i will check it at 60 yards 
:thumbs_up


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Thank You!*

Redman,

I want to thank you and all of the folks that have posted good results on the 4th Axis. I am sure that the doubters will eventually come around.  It works well and I have not had anyone that owns one indicate any different so far.  
This is a good thing! I expect that some day someone may have a problem but so far so good.

Thanks again!


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## puddin (Aug 8, 2004)

the picture at the start of the thread makes sense to me if you set the 3rd axis when the bow is at rest. but the guy from the shop that set my toxonics onto my new constitution for me set the 3rd axis when the bow was at full draw.
doing this would do the same hing as the 4th axis wouldn't it. and the 4th axis corrects the alignment at full draw.

or am u understanding it wrong.


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*Only if your bow has no torque!*

puddin,

I think you may not quite understand the 4th axis concept. 

Setting the 3rd axis at full draw aligns the sight and level bubble to the bow that is under torque. The torque takes effect when the release lets the string go. No one can predict how the torque will effect the arrow. It is just a guess. The 4th Axis enables you to tune the bow to the *EFFECTS* of the torque by shooting the arrow and making adjustments. This concept will *NOT*work on a sight that is set at full draw. You must set the 3rd axis off the bow or at brace height. Then shoot the bow and adjust the alignment of the sight extension to the shot arrow. This will square the arrow path with the level bubble. The 4th Axis takes the guesswork out of it. It is possible to shim the mount to do this but you are taking the chance of warping your sight mount when you tighten the screws due to an air gap between the mount and the riser.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

Gene,
Just thought I'd let you know I solved my left/right problem. It has to do with my anchor. I can't use the traditional solid anchor with my hand and the string both tight to my face. If I bring my anchor out to the right and line the string up down the side of my face with no hand contact on my face, everything works great. It's the way I used to shoot and I'd followed peoples advice to get a more solid anchor with very erratic results. My alignment just seems to get screwed up if I bring my hand into my face.
Anyway, after I got my problem solved, I was able to reliably test the 4th axis and it was right on at the test distance of 55 yds. Now i'm going to find me a big hill and see how it shoots uphill. Thanks for your help.
Joe B.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Old Pro*

My favorite archer (Dean Pridgen)told me your fourth axis is rock solid and helps.

I will be purchasing one soon. I never doubt Deans wisdom :thumbs_up 

Now if I could shoot like him, he said a dimes worth of talent isnt any good with a $1000.00 bow. I still keep spending 

Of course, Ill let him show me all the tricks to mounting it. Might go out and put it on him on his field course also.  Like thats going to happen. One day he will get old


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## Oldpro (May 22, 2002)

*One of a kind!*

Boone,

I am so jealous that you live close to Dean. He is one of a kind. They broke the mold when they made him. That is a good thing. Can you imagine shooting against several of him? :wink: Yes he is very happy with the 4th Axis and he had to get one for Rosie too. If you are not careful she will be spanking you too. He He!

Have a good one!


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

*4th axis*

give it a try i did and it helps on the level ground and on the hills 

well made and adds weight to riser that i like AAAAAAAAAAAAA+++++++++++


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## Mag-Tek (Jan 22, 2005)

The 4th axis works great. You can now fine tune your level to your arrow path.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

*4 th*

4 th axis is great give it a try it helps with the left and right on hills and level
AAAAAAAA+++++++++++


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