# concealed carry while bowhunting



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I just received my concealed carry permit and was wondering what you guys thought of a .45 auto for protection from animals while bowhunting in the wild (black bear and wolves) I have a HiPoint - it is a big heavy ole thing - but it is accurate and reliable - what do ya think - big enough cal or should I buy something else?


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## ORrogue (Oct 8, 2006)

I have been within feet of both bear and cougar. The two legged animals spook me more than the four. If its bear or wolves I think pepper spray is going to be more effective. If its the dope growing, meth cooking type of animal then the .45 is perfect with 3 extra magazines.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I agree, I don't bow hunt in areas where I might encounter bears but I do fly fish in areas where it's likely to encounter bears.
I carry pepper spray for bears, and my LCP for people.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

we have wolves too - and there were mexican drug dealers growing pot about 20 miles north of me and were busted - in the national forest with loads of weapons.


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## HonkAddict (Oct 18, 2011)

I conceal carry everyday but when I hunt its open carry. Its way easier to slip on a kydex than an inside the waist band in all those layers.
I carry an XDM 4.5 in 40. In the field its for snakes and varmints, I loath elk hunting so bears aren't an issue.
I'd suggest a heavy solid load for the .45 from Double Tap, that will penetrate deep. If your in grizzly country you'll be better off with mace than a 45 acp.


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## rraming (Aug 5, 2006)

Ken - you are legally allowed to carry a handgun in Wisconsin while bowhunting, I called and spoke with them a few years ago about it. Minnesota just passed that last year but we must have a conceal to carry permit in the field. I think it is a little paranoid but I have done it, going to take more than one shot to stop a bear with a 45 caliber if you get caught between the little ones and her. I have had several bears just run away, the ones that walk by me just keep walking. The lions I have never seen but would imagine they would be too sneaky and get you going in, in the morning - ha - BOO! 
The Alaskan Guide 50 is a good bear self defense pistol but I don't think you need it in Wisconsin


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

I think you should look on this as an opportunity to buy a new handgun!

I have a couple 1911s and a SW 629 Classic .44mag I could carry. The .45 is much easier to conceal but if you don't have to conceal it I much rather have the 629. In the unlikely event you ever needed it against something like a black bear, the .44 is a much better load. Guns are like bows, you can never have too many.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I know that I can open carry - but the problem is that if you do not have a conceal carry permit and your coat or jacket goes over it - you are now comitting a felony by carrying a concealed weapon.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

I love a .45 more than anything, but I'd tend to go with a wheel gun in stainless for hunting carry. They just always go bang when you pull the trigger, and you can use the most potent bullet types without worrying about feeding/extraction issues. My personal bias would be toward a 4" .357, as they represent a great balance between size, power, and control. Ruger GP-100 is built like a bank vault and shoots powder puff .38s and full-house .357s equally well. You can get a .44 Mag in a similar size gun, but it'll end up being a "only shoot it if you gotta" type weapon. 

The big issue with a .45 is that it can have underwhelming penetration on some game animals. It's a man stopper, and we don't have much in the way of fur (well, most of us don't). I know that pretty tough creatures have been taken by the venerable ACP, but higher velocity, lighter bullets tend to be the way to go in most cases (wink, wink).

Cheers,

Patrick


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## HonkAddict (Oct 18, 2011)

In Montana, you can conceal without a permit outside city limits...


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I conceal carry every day but not when I am bowhunting or gun hunting.

If I where to carry while I hunted it would be a wheel gun and then the only hunt I would do that on would be a Brown or a Griz hunt that my primary weapon would be a bow Or if I where fly fishing in bear country and I don't mean black bear 

If I was rifle hunting then I would not carry any pistol 

I have hunted around the world and I have never found the need for a handgun for back up from Africa to Alaska 

To each his own and if you want to tote the weight have at it but IMHO it is not necessary for protection from 4 legged creatures 

If I had to contend with Two legged Vernon then that's another question


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## bigtone1411 (Nov 3, 2011)

Even in California, you can carry concealed while hunting or fishing if you are a liscensed hunter or fisherman, as long as you are out of city limits and there are no local ordinances against it. So pretty much National Forest land. I carry my .357 Ruger.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm 10X more worried about stumbling into a meth lab or pot plantation out in our Public land (Michigan). I've been around bears and cougars out in Colorado and they don't really concern me. Carry whatever makes you feel secure around the 2 footed predators knowing it'll work fine on the 4 footed ones. Think Zombie apocalypse...


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## AReric (Mar 6, 2010)

I've always liked this saying- "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it".


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## mxz500ss (Dec 30, 2011)

even with a carry permit my bogus state will not allow you to carry while bow hunting. liberal pukes.


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## Double S (Mar 30, 2008)

This is what I carried off duty when I was a CPO. I also carry this still as a civilian and bowhunting. My Springfield 1911. I've had it for 10-12 years and it's never jammed. Like others have stated above I mainly carry just in case I come across a person that want's to do me harm. About 7 years ago I had a adult Cougar come up behind me while I was shore fishing. I had a little Star .40 cal on me. I was shaking so bad as I was pulling the little gun out of my waist band that I was already dropping my other gear to go Swimming. Now I like to carry bigger Handguns even though they might be heavier. I never got a shot off. As I was back stepping getting ready to jump in the river,The ferry nearby just happened to blow it's horn to leave the dock and the cougar decided to slip back into the high brush. I came across a black bear one season too but he just woof'ed at me and took off. 










I bought this 1 1/2 ago and like the option of carrying 45 LC and 410 gauge. I carried this Judge Last Season while bowhunting.










On occasion I like to carry my Ruger Sp101, 357. I don't even need a holster for this one. Just for everyday carry.










I have a few more.

My next Pistol will be a S&W 500. I came across two guys while teaching hunters ed that brought them in. One barrel was compensated. One of the guy's takes his to Alaska for protection. It was a blast to shoot. I wanted one ever since.


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## bigtone1411 (Nov 3, 2011)

In Cali, you can carry while archery hunting, but not if it is an archery only season.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Although its frequently overlooked I really like the S&W Model 57/58 or Ruger Redhawk in .41mag, its a nice balance between the shootability of the .357 without the violence of the .44mag
Lets face it, shooting pistols (especially DA revolvers) takes some practice. A <4" .44mag is not the sort of gun you want to practice with except using some homebrew reduced recoil rounds. I'm not saying the .41mag is a *****cat but is manageable, and a great penetrator to boot.

-Grant


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I wasn't bow hunting but I was fly fishing up in Wyoming in bear country and I had a 44 mag on my hip.....I was warned to do that too....I did feel some measure of sfety with that hogleg on my hip.....


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Having owned a .500 four inch, I'd say they are amazing weapons for their stopping power. They are heavy and slow to follow up. I got rid of mine prior to beginning my reloading career. I miss it. 1911's are good for people that practice with them, but require know how to maintain and lack the stopping power really necessary for the big stuff. I shot a wounded buck six times with hydrashoks and saw daylight through the animal's chest prior to headshot induced critical system failure. I ain't taking no .45 to a bear fight, I hear that swallowing 1911's is bad for their digestion. 
My best guess is a Glock model 20 in 10mm if you must have a semiauto. They are fairly simple to use and maintain. I'd choose ammunition loaded by DoubleTap or BuffaloBore. They are hot rounds and the weapon carries a good deal of them. If you are a revolver guy seeking utter reliability I would choose the Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull which also shoots .45LC. You can get seriously hot ammo in either from double tap or buffalo bore. 
The dangerous game loads will take care of the bad men too, but I assume you're primarily concerned with the beasts. Carry spare ammo in a magazine or speedloaders. The only thing that sucks worse than getting killed by dangerous game....is getting killed by dangerous game that you didn't have enough ammo to keep down. When and if you shoot something and knock it down, run up and pay the insurance with more bullets. 

With regard to the Hipoint....the likelihood of finding a pimp in the middle of the woods to shoot is slim. Leave the Saturday night special in the trash where it belongs.

With regard to not wanting to practice, maybe you don't want to get beat up and I understand. Get some recoil absorbing gloves and put the time in behind the sights. Practice to atleast 25 yards. You have the choice to stop the charge nose to nose or comfortably distant. Also consider that you may have to protect persons other than yourself.


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## Rolexdr (Jan 24, 2012)

Best recommendation for self protection while hunting is a revolver. Less likely to jam. 
Carry a caliber big enough to shoot. 

And I would suggest if you carry anything smaller then a .357 mag. And you hunt in bear country you should remove the front sight. 

Wont hurt as bad when the bear rams it up your *****


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Rolexdr said:


> Best recommendation for self protection while hunting is a revolver. Less likely to jam.
> Carry a caliber big enough to shoot.
> 
> And I would suggest if you carry anything smaller then a .357 mag. And you hunt in bear country you should remove the front sight.
> ...


I like that, its humerous but oh so true. I had a .44 mag and I was keeping an eye out for any feral creature that might want to shove that weapon up my hinny......


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I guess I would want a bigger gun if I was in grizzly country - I am not - these are black bears - but to be honest - I am a bit more concerned about the wolves


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

sharpbroadhead said:


> I guess I would want a bigger gun if I was in grizzly country - I am not - these are black bears - but to be honest - I am a bit more concerned about the wolves


If I was as good as you with a bow I would not worry to much


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Seriously, for all his quirks and such...Ken is a bad man with his bow. 

If you are going to have multiple highly mobile enemies I'd go for an auto in something serious still like 10mm. It gives you incredible flexibilty to vary your power level, hit multiple times and carry a decent amount of ammunition in a small pack. Two spare mags will be plenty of ammo. I'd pick the .40S&W over the .45ACP due to the fact that it's more powerful on average, economical and you have a capacity increase. The 10mm, it's big brother and parent cartridge, is king of the combat service cartridges. It suffered a poor reputation due its being pressed into service in response to the FBI getting their posteriors handed to them in an infamous shoot out and not allowing proper R&D of the delivery system. Ask someone who owns a Colt Delta Elite about the 10mm. 

I joke about the Hi-Point, but seriously they have a poor reputation for reliability and are not the general issue of any good guy force. The Glock is fairly economical, highly reliable and easily customized to the end user due to a vast array of aftermarket supportsuch as a conversion barrel to shoot the cheaper, shorter 40S&W.


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## rdoggsilva (Jan 24, 2012)

My everyday carry weapon is a 1911-45 acp. But when in the wild I carry a Ruger 41 single shot. Not to worried about bears or cats but the two legged animal. Last year my son and I found a abandoned meth lab. Kind of scary.


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Well in your case Rdog, the big gun may be not enough raw firepower should the next lab you find be an attended one. Even with all my crazy choices to carry in that case I'd stay away unless there were P&Y's guarding the lab.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

there is nothing in the woods you need to arm yourself against, at least nothing on four legs


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

LOL - really TrapperDave

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35913715/ns/us_news-life/t/fatal-wolf-attack-unnerves-alaska-village/

http://www.hcn.org/issues/315/16084

http://www.kxly.com/news/29468560/detail.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33509516/ns/world_news-americas/t/coyotes-kill-woman-hike-canadian-park/

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/coyote_attacks.html

http://news.discovery.com/animals/black-bear-attacks-north-america-110511.html and this is just the fatal ones - nearly every year in Northern Wisconsin there are bowhunters attacked by black bears - rarely fatal attacks - but attacks just the same

To claim that there is nothing in the woods a hunter needs to arm themselves against is just foolish. Where I hunt there are wolves, bears, coyotes, cougars, badgers, fishers, not to mention any rabid animal. I understand that the risk is small - but it is still a risk.

Last year a man I know went out on his lunch break to check his deer cam - his foot fell into a hollow and he fell and shattered his ankle - he had to drag himself to his truck. I would not want to be laying in the woods incapacitated waiting for help with no protection - would you?


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## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

sharpbroadhead said:


> I just received my concealed carry permit and was wondering what you guys thought of a .45 auto for protection from animals while bowhunting in the wild (black bear and wolves) I have a HiPoint - it is a big heavy ole thing - but it is accurate and reliable - what do ya think - big enough cal or should I buy something else?





> we have wolves too - and there were mexican drug dealers growing pot about 20 miles north of me and were busted - in the national forest with loads of weapons.


Even though I know you most likely won't read this...or respond..

I don't think a hand gun is the answer to your problem Ken..while it may seem the easiest solution..I personally don't think it is from what you have said..

If I had your concerns about both 2 legged and 4 legged critters that could do me harm while out hunting..I would figure out exactly how you want to deal with..then get the appropriate weapon to face it.

2 legged creatures that have tons of weapons..protecting their drug lab/crops...any handgun isn't going to cut it..or multiple targets intent on eating you in the failing light of day with you injured or not..any hand gun is the last thing I would want to depend on...Granted..it is better than nothing..but..not by much..

If your concerns are really this..then look at getting a short barreled 870 12 ga shot gun that you can carry in a back pack..or on a strap....1 that is set up as a true combat type weapon..with super bright starlight type lights on it..Yes..it does away with the easy to conceal approach..yes..it is heavier and bulkier than a concealed pistol..but..if you truly have fears of becoming a animals meal..or have to defend your life against people intent on doing you harm for stumbling upon their drug lab..then you better have enough fire power that you can use in a stressful dark situation where you can't see your sights..besides...racking a 870 in the dark can and does send shivers down most criminals spine..and is a better equalizer than any pistol you can have..Set up properly with the right accessories/barrels/chokes and loads..you are good out to 200 yards..and is better choice in a real survival situation..

If it is just for carrying around town and a occasional foray into the woods..try out as many different pistols as you can and see what you can shoot the best..then see what fits best in the type of holster you want to carry all the time.. 

Mac


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I carry a .38 when hunting in areas that bear and wolves frequent. One trip out in the dark carrying an elk unarmed was enough for me. While a .38 is not a real stopper it makes a big flash and bang in the dark. FWIW I also have owned .44 mags and .45 colts but never took them as they were too large and bulky - the little .38 goes along.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

While I don't know the stats - I would bet that there are more hunters killed or injured from bear, wolves, coyotes, and other animals than from humans - at least while hunting.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Probably more hunters injure themselves than all the animal attacks put together! - What I do know is that packing out elk quarters by yourself in the dark unarmed is spooky. Packing a pistol makes me feel much more at ease.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

sharpbroadhead said:


> While I don't know the stats - I would bet that there are more hunters killed or injured from bear, wolves, coyotes, and other animals than from humans - at least while hunting.


On the anecdotal, I can name two good friends and why I would never hunt public land again in my life. Don't ever think nut jobs and guns aren't a perfect match, and all they need is a free place to play.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

agree centershot


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

I was thinking you were heading towards an AR or AK pistol on a two point sling under a coat, but then you surprised me with a modern day Doc Holliday special. Besides being terribly short ranged, open carriage of loaded weapons poses a problem in some parks outside of a legal firearms hunting season.

If you have to seriously consider defending yourself against multiple armed banditos...having a stick and string along for the ride without an M-60 is a hollywood faux pas. You're not Rambo and you can't go around dressed like a militia member. This has crossed beyond the ridiculous line.


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## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

Forrest Halley said:


> I was thinking you were heading towards an AR or AK pistol on a two point sling under a coat, but then you surprised me with a modern day Doc Holliday special. Besides being terribly short ranged, open carriage of loaded weapons poses a problem in some parks outside of a legal firearms hunting season.
> 
> If you have to seriously consider defending yourself against multiple armed banditos...having a stick and string along for the ride without an M-60 is a hollywood faux pas. You're not Rambo and you can't go around dressed like a militia member. This has crossed beyond the ridiculous line.


Hopefully your not talking about my opinion..

I don't think any one has suggested that Forrest..just as I don't think those that hunt up north where bears & wolves play would think my suggestion is too far fetched..They do make real nice back packs for carrying rifles & shot guns..and having a good carry strap on one if a back pack isn't in order makes it real easy to carry..

Mac


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Mac,
The first part was about your opinion and I respectfully disagree with it for several reasons. 1. I think that a shotgun is a poor combat weapon in any circumstance where you can be outranged and its ammunition is heavy. Combined with the fact that it gives any and all element of surprise you're nothing more than a noticeably armed individual with limited range. 2. Public land was mentioned and in some places you cannot openly carry a firearm outside of a firearms hunting season. 3. AK and AR pistols offer legal concealability of a heavy hitter that will effectively engage most opponents to be found in the areas he's going. Ranges out to 200m can be effected by resting on a pack or the like for stability. 

The second part was in cheeky response to Ken's Mexican drug smugglers comment.


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## wtpops (Sep 18, 2005)

trapperDave said:


> there is nothing in the woods you need to arm yourself against, at least nothing on four legs


I myself have been jumped by a coyote. I was answering the call of nature on a pine tree when i got that feeling that you get when you just know you are being watched. I turned around still holding onto what little god gave me and there stood a coyote about 4 feet away. He lunged at my crotch and i back handed him in the face. My hand went into his mouth and he grabbed a hold and shook me two or three times then let go and split. I wrapped up my hand and headed for the truck. To this day i still get edgy at first light or last light and hear a pack of coyotes close by.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

wtpops - that must have scared the heck out of you - did you need rabbis shots?


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I have 2 44's but I carry a 357 with me bowhunting, and any time I am out hiking in the woods. I carry it as it is lighter and I handload so it packs a punch. I first started carrying it because of the 2 legged varmints that you sometimes run into, and there have been too many people robbed and killed out in the mountains here. However, since then we have had wolves re-introduced, and have had a few run ins with bears when out calling... too close for comfort. Had a big color phase black bear sneak up behind me elk hunting this year, I was cow and calf calling... turned around to walk out and he was 15 yards behind me... fortunately I had stopped calling and stood up... not sure what would have happened as he was coming in forn a cheap meal. Oh ya, I grabbed an arrow to nock it, and said POOP (the other word tho) and he bolted. I have had coyotes come in behind me when predator calling for bear and get within yards of me from behind before I seen them... yes the woods on the west side of the cascades are thick... so no I always carry.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

For the guys that are not fans of the .45 ACP - do you think it is so not sufficient - that it would be worth it for me to drop $$$$ on a different gun (I already have a .45 ACP) - My dad is trying to talk me into dropping $400.00 for a Ruger LC9 .380 with a lazer sight to keep in my pocket all the time - but I don't really feel the need to carry a gun all the time.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

All I can think of is how many arrows I can buy for $400.00 -


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

The Hipoint is not as reliable as you might be lead to believe and the metallurgy is not good enough to run the hot .45 loads. A Glock can be had in some hot calibers like 10mm or .357sig and even run normal ammo like .40sw in a conversion barrel for economical practice. For some 700$ you could be setup with a gun and conversion barrel and ammo. It comes down to what your peace of mind is worth.


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## wtpops (Sep 18, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> wtpops - that must have scared the heck out of you - did you need rabbis shots?


I should have but i was 21 22 at the time and to young and stupid to even go get checked. That yote being that close to me and jumping me should have told me that there might be something wrong with him. I do think he was a young dog his teeth were still needle sharp.

Scared the heck out of me is an understatement. It happened some 32 33 years ago and i can still remember every detail as if it happened 2 hours ago. I can remember the bark on the tree, the color of the grass, the shape and color of his face, the way his solders dipped and the mussels in his hind quarters flexing as he started off the ground. I can remember everything about it.


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## nmubowyer (Feb 7, 2008)

I used to carry my hipoint like a little kid carries his blanket when we lived in Wash state, then I came home to MI I quit, this past year I had a couple meth heads with muzzleloaders screamin at me and threatening me, managed to talk my way out of that...next season that .45 is goin everywhere again


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> LOL - really TrapperDave
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35913715/ns/us_news-life/t/fatal-wolf-attack-unnerves-alaska-village/
> 
> ...


youre more likely to be struck by lighning. Better prepare for it and wear a grounding rod. As for the injured buddy of yours, Im bettin a cell phone would be of more help than a pistol LOL


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

trapperDave said:


> youre more likely to be struck by lighning. Better prepare for it and wear a grounding rod. As for the injured buddy of yours, Im bettin a cell phone would be of more help than a pistol LOL


Pure condescension. 

Every time a thread on carrying handguns in the field comes up somebody has belittle people who choose to carry. Don't you think everybody knows the chances of needing a handgun are vanishingly small? If it's legal to carry it's all personal choice anyway.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

There are 2 to 3 fatal bear attacks each year in the US. More than half are black bears, one as small as 112lbs back in 2000. One of two things happend in almost all of these cases. Either a runner or hiker suprised a bear with cubs or a bear stalked killed and ate some or all of the person. Most of the stalking type attacks are associated with camping areas where bears are educated to the idea that people and food go together.
IMHO, if a bear is hunting you will lose even if you have a gun because the charge will come out of the blue and be over with in a few seconds. Most people could never react to this situation.

When I fly fish around remote camping areas, or walk on trails that have trash cans I hold the spray in one hand and the fly rod in the other hand. Educated bears are dangerous. People leave food in all the wrong places. These are places that most people would love to visit but if you do bring some pepper spray.
However, there are 14,000 murders in the US each year. This is why I carry a gun.


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## cossack (May 11, 2011)

I lived and hunted in Alaska for several years and while I've heard of numerous bear attacks yearly (mostly due to stupid acts by the victims), I've never heard of any verified attack on a human by a wolf. I had a pack living on the ridge behind my house, heard them howl on the clear nights and saw sign while hunting, but only once did I ever catch a distant fleeting glimpse of one before he dissappeared into the thick.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

trapper - ummm - my friend who broke his ankle - had a cell phone - we are in the middle of a national forest - our entire county has a population of less than 11,000 people - we have only two stop and go lights in the entire county and they were put in about 6 years ago - there are many areas that do not have cell service - he was in one of them - and did not have service. You just love to argue don't you - is there anything I can post without you chiming in with some negative stuff?


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

cossack - go and read the links I posted - there are varified attacks of wolves and even coyotes - a teacher was killed in Alaska by wolves just a few years ago


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Dave has a point about the handgun not always being the answer. First aid kits and other items are necessary to protect yourself and survive also. 

Everyone remember to stand by and let him play Hiawatha with whatever attacks him since he made the comment that guns aren't necessary. He's filled out his DNR...do not rescue.  I'm sorry, but despite your views I couldn't bring myself to see someone victimized by their failure to exercise all of their rights. (Assuming he's legally allowed to own one.)


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

> victimized by their failure to exercise all of their rights


So bring a bible, a newspaper, a preacher and a lawyer too. Gee wiz


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

dave just has a personal issue with me - If i posted that the sky was blue and water was wet - he would find a reason to argue with me - it is sort of funny.

Anyhow I never claimed or asked if a handgun was the only answer or my personal savior - just a bit of added protection - like one of the posters said - i would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

A few years ago I shot a whitetail and went out the next morning to track it with my kids - four of them 12 and under and we came up over a hill and there 30 yards or so in front of us was a black bear sitting on my deer eating on it - i had no gun - no protection - that could have been ugly - but by the grace of God it was not.


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## mnrockwarrior (Nov 17, 2011)

Just run naked with bacon strips hanging off your body!


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## millerarchery (Dec 27, 2005)

I have a sig 2340 in 357 sig, i am thinking about trading it for a glock 29 (10mm) with double tap, better than a 357 mag but a little tamre than a 44 mag and it holds alot more ammo, i dont hunt in grizz country, just blackies and lions


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## wvtraditional (Sep 1, 2008)

Glock 20 10mm big enough for black bears and nut jobs


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

The 135 and hard casts alternating in the mag sounds good to me. You can always reload to a longer G20 mag.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I have to admit - you guys are speaking a foreign language to me - I guess I dont' know enough about guns


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## Double S (Mar 30, 2008)

Sharp..Do you have a Gun store/range nearby that rents out different firearms?. It's great for testing out different pistols and calibers. You usually have to pay for the range time and ammo.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

LOL Double B - I live in the middle of the Cheguemegon National Forest - the nearest Walmart is almost an hour drive from me! If there is a range that does that I don't know about it and it is likely over an hour away.


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## Sukpad89 (Feb 1, 2012)

A highpoint is a very heavy thing to be carrying around in the woods. I carry a handgun everywhere I go and I personally find the 9mm to be enough for most jobs. I carry anything from North American Arms 22lr to Dirty's 8" 44 mag but i usually carry my Kahr CW9. Here in CT it is illegal to carry any sort of firearm while bowhunting but I am going to say there is always a firearm that is never to far away. The neighbor to my hunting grounds has a few bulls that have gotten out before... I hunt in a ground blind... They don't like people... Sorry but I just don't think the bow is an effictive personal defense weapon. Check your local regs


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Sharp if your taking your kids to track deer and ya got that many critters around bring a 12 gauge with 00 buck And slugs 

I would if I thought I might encounter a problem nd I had my littles along 

When I am camping with my littles I bring this old broom stick along and we dig a hole for 4 or 2 legged critters . When my kids are along I'm not playing


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

AReric said:


> I've always liked this saying- "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it".



I like that.:thumbs_up Too bad the politicians dont see it that way. No wolves here in South Alabama but we got coyotes and the Game & Fish wont admit it but we've got Florida Panthers here. Really, the 2 legged creatures are more of a concern to me.
I carry when I'm hunting period. Too bad anyone would have to worry about carrying whatever state it may be, since the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution already allows for the right to carry.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

amen mr. Curve - I am actually against these concealed carry permits - because we already have a right to carry a weapon - the consitution says nothing about concealed or not - we simply have a right to bear arms - and a right needs no permit - but since our consitition has become pretty much nothing but a worthless piece of paper that nobody follows anyhow - I figured why fight it - and I just got the permit.


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## Sukpad89 (Feb 1, 2012)

CT is actually a very good state for packing heat as far as laws go. We just went through an open carry revolution where new case law protects gun users from the haters when open carrying. I still conceal my piece but the law about carrying a firearm while bow hunting isn't a concealed carry issue, its possession of a firearm durring the designated archery season. It makes sense in some aspects... But I get nervous when gutting a deer at the edge of a field at twilight and then taking the torch an seeing 6 sets of eyes 20 yards off waiting for the gut pile. And if you are looking for protection from bears first line should be spray and making a racket if they seem threating at all. Then a shogun with 1oz slugs... Luckly in my home state bears arn't the issue nor fishers, coyotes (the hybrid ones as well), or any wild animal really for that matter (not to diminish the possiability). I'm looking out for crack heads, domestic dogs, or other domestic animals... Thats what im afraid of. My 2 cents


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Double Tap Ammo....really hot 10mm ammo: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_25

Glock 29 (Easily concealable 10mm): http://us.glock.com/products/model/g29 or the short frame if you have small hands http://us.glock.com/products/model/g29sf


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## nmubowyer (Feb 7, 2008)

I can tell you firsthand a cellphone is not better than a gun when youre dealin with two legged idiots. It took three 911 calls and ten minutes to get to a dispatcher that would actually help me when i had two guys with a muzzleloader screaming at me and threatening me. Then an additional 45 minutes to get cops to the scene, by then the guys causing the threat were gone. With all due respect you dont know what you're talking about.


trapperDave said:


> youre more likely to be struck by lighning. Better prepare for it and wear a grounding rod. As for the injured buddy of yours, Im bettin a cell phone would be of more help than a pistol LOL


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## Sukpad89 (Feb 1, 2012)

nmubowyer said:


> I can tell you firsthand a cellphone is not better than a gun when youre dealin with two legged idiots. It took three 911 calls and ten minutes to get to a dispatcher that would actually help me when i had two guys with a muzzleloader screaming at me and threatening me. Then an additional 45 minutes to get cops to the scene, by then the guys causing the threat were gone. With all due respect you dont know what you're talking about.


I hate to say something like this but twice since I have been carrying, and I'm only 22, I have needed to "brandish" my weapon to a threat of the two legged variety. But at the time my job that I got laid off from (probably luckily looking back) was an extreamly high risk job. I wish they let me carry my ar15! Most people are "good" people but if I realied on a cell phone to keep me safe I would be dead without a doubt. So forrget the liberal BS and carry the right tool for the job.


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Funny thing, when I was a younger man and first got my carry permit it saved me from a lot. Being a little older and wiser now it doesn't save me as much. Brandishing is a bad word of choice. Usually a crime most places. I believe in carrying a gun and also staying out of a gunfight. If I must go to one I intend it to be as unfair to the other attendant(s) as possible to include not waiving my gun around.


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## Sukpad89 (Feb 1, 2012)

Brandishing I guess is bad word. But its hard to describe pulling out your gun and performing a citizens arrest on someone trying to rob you while carrying someone elses money. Guess what industry I was working... Never going back. Once the bad guy sees the gun and sees your willing to use it they usually leave. I would rather show them my gun and scare them off then use it on them when they get to close. To much paper work...


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

There are many, many important things missing from this discussion regarding the use of a firearm for self-defense against a person; I will indicate just a few.

1. Have you ever been shot at by someone that had the intent to actually kill you? I don't mean some farmer shooting buckshot at trespassers or someone throwing a round from a distance and then shagging.

2. Have you ever shot at a person or actually shot a person with the intent to kill?

3. Have you ever knowingly shot and killed a person?

4. Have you ever been shot during an exchange with a bad guy(s)?

How proficient you are shooting targets, civilian combat/speed shooting competition, fast draw, tin cans, crabapples, etc, becomes a whole different mental ballgame when the rubber meets the road and rounds are "snapping" and hitting all around you...especially if you are hit; regardless of what firearm and loads...hot loads or standard loads, how much you know about firearms/ammo, etc.

As for carrying a defensive weapon when hunting; in certain areas I do but mainly for 4-leggers, and in some areas for 4 and 2 leggers. I usually pack a Colt .45 Gold Cup loaded with 230 grain FMJ ammo or a Rossi .22 cal revolver loaded with LRHP. Good (sufficient) rounds for the animals in my locale and sufficient enough to put a hurtin' on a bad guy if the need was to arise. Unless the assailant is suicidal, doped up, or just plain crazy, the bad guys don't want to be shot anymore than you do.

But, to put my 2-cents in regarding best defense weapon; most incidents regarding shootouts of the civilian kind occur at close range(s). If it was practical or necessary I'm going with MAC and JParanee; I would carry my Mossberg A500 20" "Tactical" 12 gauge pump with a full-choke, loaded with a quality 3" 000 buck, or the Ithaca 12 gauge M37 pump loaded with the same ammo.

You can argue until the cows come home in defense for any caliber of pistol or revolver vs. a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with the right ammo. I shoot quite well with a pistol and a revolver; but if the bad guy(s) is/are carrying either, regardless of caliber, and I am armed with a shotgun that is properly set up and using the right ammo, the bad guy(s) armed with a pistol or revolver just entered a world of hurt.

Here is real-life account: 

One low night four good guys are confronted by four bad guys. Three of the bad guys were armed with pistols and revolvers, one bad guy was armed with an AR-15 loaded with FMJ 5.56 mm. Three of the good guys were well trained in combat-style shooting. One poor soul was an unarmed observer. 

One of the good guys was taken by surprise by bad guy with a pistol and he never had a chance. One good guy was able to get off a clip of 9 mm, wounding one bad guy in arm but did not put the bad guy out of action. The bad guy with the AR-15 took the good guy out then they turned on the remaining good guy; a guy who was a real quiet person, almost meek-like, real nice guy. 

The remaining good guy was armed with a 9 mm semi-auto. He dumped the clip on the bad guys but didn't put any down for the count. The bad guy with the AR hit the good guy in both legs and, the left arm, and then put one round in the center of the good guy's ballistic vest, knocking him down. Good guy kept his composure and retrieved a Ithaca M37 pump loaded with 00 buck. He came up rapid firing and quickly put 3 bad guys down. He later said that 2 bad guys dropped at one shot. He hit the guy with the AR in the shoulder and sent him running to dark cover on a ridge just above him. Bad guy opens fire, good guy shoots at muzzle flash, bad guy is hit again and surrenders.

Although 4 assailants were firing at the remaining good guy, the only hits he took were from the AR-15.


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## Sukpad89 (Feb 1, 2012)

You make a point but I also want to say that someone does not need to be in a gun fight to be proficent and able to defend themselves if they find themselves in a bad spot. I'm sure most of us would carry a shotgun every day if we could but in the lower 48 most of us will not be. I bring my M37 Ithica when I go camping but while bow hunting I cant carry all this effectivly. Its alot easier to pack a pistol and your Colt is a great choice. The most important thing is training and as a civilian it is our responsiability to do as much as we can if we choose to carry. I know I have used my weapons effectivly so far because I havn't had to pull the trigger so far. Hopefully I never have to but I know if I do I am trying my damdist to be prepared. BTW Getting taken in an ambush and out gunned is just never a good place to be. At that point alot of people have to hope the bad guy sucks at shooting.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Sukpad89:

Read again and pick up on the underlying and overall message.


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## Buck13 (Dec 13, 2011)

WindWalker said:


> Here is real-life account:


Since the start of this thread, I've been thinking back to the spaghetti western ("For a Fistful of Dollars," IIRC) with the line "When a man with a revolver comes up against a man with a Winchester, the man with the pistol is a dead man." Or something close to that. I don't care how many magazines you've got, a pistol against any long gun outdoors is not a scene you want to be in.


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

The underlying message is that he's been there and done that. The fact that he refuses to cede that a shotgun is not suited for lawful and or practical concealed carry is also obvious. This thread has gone from what can I put under my coat to defend me against bears and people to how much better a shotgun is for going to war. From practical to tactical. This is not a recon mission or a high risk warrant, it's some guy trying to live through his bowhunt in wolf and bear country. Yes I'd rather have my m4, AK, mossberg 835 20"or a 13 shot benelli but NONE can be concealed effectively, they all make it difficult to bowhunt, and if I felt I needed them to be there I wouldn't take the bow.


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## Sukpad89 (Feb 1, 2012)

:deadhorse I think in the end we are all arguing the same point but getting there different ways. Its always better to have it and a good revolver or auto in an effictive caliber is better than nothing. A highpoint 45 is heavy for my liking but if it is what you have it can't hurt to bring along, and is definetly a great gun for your purposes.:thumbs_up


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## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

I'll say this..if I couldn't take my choice of weapon..for what ever reason..then I would not take a semi auto..I would have a sharp machete type hacking survival blade..and carry a Smith & Wesson in 45 long colt. It will give you with the right ammo...everything from mild to practice with to wild to be able to kill any bear or wolfie that comes your way..and also something for that real up close and personal fighting in the nit & gritty of things. Way better than any type of hunting knife..plus it is useful for anything you need for cutting small trees for making a shelter..clearing shooting lanes in or anything else you could need..Buffalo Bore has some ammo that is just utter fantastic in this..

My understandings from here in Missouri..concealed is concealed..and just because it is in a back pack makes no difference..If the game laws will allow it..a short barreled pistol gripped 12ga is my first choice..my second choice is use the best and simplest handgun you can..and have a super sharp cutting weapon.. 

Mac


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Since it appears you must have a shotgun this is classified as an AOW(any other weapon) and transfers with some paperwork and a 5$ tax stamp:http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php 
Best of luck...I'd still pick this over the HiPoint.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> The fact that he refuses to cede that a shotgun is not suited for lawful and or practical concealed carry is also obvious.


"If it was practical or necessary"...


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## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

Forrest Halley said:


> Since it appears you must have a shotgun this is classified as an AOW(any other weapon) and transfers with some paperwork and a 5$ tax stamp:http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php
> Best of luck...I'd still pick this over the HiPoint.


If you are talking about me..If I am not mistaken...I don't need any special permit or stamp to carry a legal length shotgun concealed in a back pack..I am not talking about a cut down type that is illegal..legal length barrels and a collapsable Knox butt stock as long as the OAL is 35" and the barrel is 18" is not classified as needing a class 3 permit.

MAc


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

No I'm not talking about you in particular Mac and there is no cause to get all high noon. Believe me, if ever I am for you sir, you'll know it unequivocally. So please relax and take what I say in jest. I'm poking fun about the consensus in general and I think some of these things are cool. I enjoy hand cannons of all types however impractical, c.i.p. the .500 or .460 snubnose where all ballistic advantage is squandered for a bulky dubiously concealable package that is sure to cause hearing damage if ever used defensively. The original post was concealed carry while bowhunting. Since we seem to have taken a departure from conventional concealed carry and applied unrealistic requirements and specifications to a simple problem. It would appear that a special need of some sort has arisen. We all feel differently about how it should be met. Some feel that the OP's current weapon is sufficient, others say add more powerful ammunition, still others say to change to a more potent handgun, while others tout the shotgun as best. We're all right anyway and like you so wisely offered at the outset, this is Ken and he'll fail to listen to any of it in all likelihood. I'll stick with the 10mm or .454 and you can have the shotgun (which I value and has served me well in time of need) and Ken can blast away at the drug cartels and timberwolves until his HiPoint ceases to function and he is overrun.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

nmubowyer said:


> I can tell you firsthand a cellphone is not better than a gun when youre dealin with two legged idiots. It took three 911 calls and ten minutes to get to a dispatcher that would actually help me when i had two guys with a muzzleloader screaming at me and threatening me. Then an additional 45 minutes to get cops to the scene, by then the guys causing the threat were gone. With all due respect you dont know what you're talking about.


im guessing your the one doesnt know what hes talking about. The case in point was an INJURED friend of his needing help.

In your situation the smart thing to do is remove yourself from the danger zone, then call 911. Not stick around arguing with an armed person/persons about who is right...regardless of whether or not you are armed


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

This thread has wandered from what is practical to what is theoretically best for any situation. Pretty tough to argue that a shotgun with slugs is better defense against large bears or that we should all have our cell phones with us. A much more reasonable debate is the way it started...the big bore revolver vs. semi-auto pistol.

The thing is when I'm walking into the woods in the predawn dark or out after dark I have at least a pack on my back, usually a pack and climbing stand. My bow is in one hand, compass or GPS in the other, headlamp on my head. The last thing I want is more to carry so if I do choose to carry a firearm I really have no effective way to carry anything bigger than a holstered handgun and even that is going to be a pain. And as far as concealed, I would be a conscientious objector. I'd have the permit but fudge on total concealment. If you conceal a handgun properly, strap on your pack with waist band, grab the bow and GPS, good luck accessing your firearm in the event you need it. If I'm going to go through the hassle of carrying a handgun you can bet it will be carried in a way that makes it available.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

easykeeper if you have it in a holster at your side and your jacket or coat his hanging over the handgun - if you do not have a concealed carry permit - you could be charged with a felony because the gun is concealed by your coat.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

sharpbroadhead said:


> easykeeper if you have it in a holster at your side and your jacket or coat his hanging over the handgun - if you do not have a concealed carry permit - you could be charged with a felony because the gun is concealed by your coat.


And that is the true dilemma of this topic. A concealed handgun further restricted by a pack waist belt and heavy clothing is rendered pretty much worthless. So is it even worth the weight, inconvenience, and discomfort to carry if you could never get at it if you need it? It's pretty likely in the event you do need it it will happen _fast_, maybe even faster than you can react with a easily accessed handgun. Like I said, conscientious objection. Walking through the dark in the middle of the woods if I felt I needed a firearm the last thing I would worry about is running into a LEO. I guess you can tell I think requiring concealed carry during hunting to be ridiculous. If I'm just out hiking with my cameras during the day (photography is my other hobby), that's a different scenario since I could carry concealed and still have an effective weapon. I usually just leave it home and avoid the dilemma.


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## nmubowyer (Feb 7, 2008)

If you fall out of a tree, or break your leg, absolutely a phone is better. But if a methhead is screamin at you and barking like a coyote, coming at you with a rifle, then walk away and try to circle back on you, obviously stoned out of his gourd, you can take your cell phone out and hope for some change in 45 minutes when LEO shows up. And yes dealing with authorites is a better option, but that isnt always an option, if you dont wanna carry don't. And make sure you vote antigun if you dont want others carrying, but me personally, I will carry and hope to god I never have to use it. After that one experience the weight of that .45 seems pretty dang light to lug around.



trapperDave said:


> im guessing your the one doesnt know what hes talking about. The case in point was an INJURED friend of his needing help.
> 
> In your situation the smart thing to do is remove yourself from the danger zone, then call 911. Not stick around arguing with an armed person/persons about who is right...regardless of whether or not you are armed


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## thumper-tx (Dec 19, 2006)

I pretty much carry all the time, in the woods or not. I likely will not need it but if I do, I have it. Kind of like keeping insurance on my truck... I dont think I am going to get in any wrecks.. but who knows. Unless a person isnt comfortable with their gun skills or crisis level decisionmaking, why would you not carry. [legally, with permit] After all, because you have it doesnt mean you have to pull it.


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## casterpollox (Apr 7, 2010)

Buck13 said:


> Since the start of this thread, I've been thinking back to the spaghetti western ("For a Fistful of Dollars," IIRC) with the line "When a man with a revolver comes up against a man with a Winchester, the man with the pistol is a dead man." Or something close to that. I don't care how many magazines you've got, a pistol against any long gun outdoors is not a scene you want to be in.


Did you see the end of that movie? :wink:


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## Buck13 (Dec 13, 2011)

Yes, I figured I'd get called on that.  I've seen a lot of things in movies that are highly improbable or physically impossible. The story WindWalker relates sounds a lot more reality-based.

I saw A Fistful of Dollars in 1984, I think. The CU Boulder campus film series showed a whole string of spaghetti westerns that year, and my buds and I went to all of them, so they kinda run together. I don't remember the other details too well, but obvs that statement by the bad guy was intended to play out ironically. OTOH, in a lot of cases, conventional wisdom turns out to contain some wisdom.


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