# Why is field archery only about tournaments now?



## Field Shooter (Nov 2, 2005)

Jim Quarles: I agree with you, But it is very hard to take a shooter to the Field range with this target that we now shoot, Almost all of the shooters that tries to shoot this very hard target
quites before the round is over because of how hard the round is. The answer is a target that the week end archer can hit with what is preceived to be not to hard of a target to hit.
First of all we will have to convence the new archers that they can hit the target with very little effort and then they will be a week end club shooter. It all goes back its hard to sale something that 
a person is not in the market for. And you can be sure it is not the field target we shoot today. The answer is to reinvent the field round to some type of a target that is user frindly that the week end 
shooter will enjoy shooting. The key word is to ( enjoy ). Then more archers will come out and shoot the field round at the club on a week end basice and then Field archery will grow back to what it once was.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Field Shooter said:


> Jim Quarles: I agree with you, But it is very hard to take a shooter to the Field range with this target that we now shoot, Almost all of the shooters that tries to shoot this very hard target
> quites before the round is over because of how hard the round is. The answer is a target that the week end archer can hit with what is preceived to be not to hard of a target to hit.
> First of all we will have to convince the new archers that they can hit the target with very little effort and then they will be a week end club shooter. It all goes back its hard to sale something that
> a person is not in the market for. And you can be sure it is not the field target we shoot today. The answer is to reinvent the field round to some type of a target that is user frindly that the week end
> shooter will enjoy shooting. The key word is to ( enjoy ). Then more archers will come out and shoot the field round at the club on a week end basice and then Field archery will grow back to what it once was.


Whoah - - -- wait a minute here. What is so hard about hitting a target at MARKED DISTANCE that is WAY BIGGER than a rubber deer.

I"m tired of this "field archery is too hard" crap. Those same people will go out on a 3-D course and shoot a rubber deer at UNMARKED distances with $12 arrows; launch several into the trees and/or break them and LAUGH about it! Then, they'll go buy more arrows and come back again to shoot rubber deer.

Reinvent the field round? Why? it is MARKED distance and what you have to hit to "score" is usually bigger than a rubber deer...and the backstop is definitely bigger than a rubber deer.

I agree that perhaps the fans and walk-ups need to be changed or even done away with...BUT....from experience I'll tell you right now...the 3-Der and Bow hunter types will NOT flock to shoot a field range even if it was "simplified".

Today's people are seemingly all about MONEY, and GLORY and bragging to their friends. They don't any longer go after the personal achievements that are available to the within the NFAA. Achievement awards that are NOT available with the IBO or ASA which are both tournament ONLY organizations. 
Yet..people flock to them for "MONEY" and Glory. It sure isn't "really" to get better for bow hunting...that vanished long ago when money payouts started in the amateur classes.

I am hoping however that this year's change in the NFAA field and hunter round scoring 'FOR PROS ONLY' isn't shoved down everyone's throats the way this same "change for PROS ONLY" was done for one season and then the next year it was shoved down everyone's throat to "standardize things." (1976)
History is repeating itself some 37 years later, same scenario, same excuses (separate the pro scores, and make it more competitive FOR THE PROS), same procedures; only difference is the personnel providing the impetus for the changes.

If a shooter cannot learn to hit a 30" target with a 4' square bale at 55 yards...then WHY the heck are they out trying to hit a rubber deer without any back stop at those distances and even SMALLER ones at 25-40 yards?

I don't buy this "too hard to hit" crap one little bit. It is hypocrisy, plain and simple...Launch $12 arrows into the trees shooting at rubber deer UNMARKED distances of sometimes over 100 yards at a novelty shoot...pay to shoot each arrow, AND lose several $12 arrows...and laugh about it. But won't even TRY to shoot 65 yards at a 4' diameter target at MARKED distance? Gimme a break. Just an excuse; any excuse.

Over the years, the NFAA and many clubs have bent over backwards making accommodations and changes "for the bow hunters" and "back yard shooters" and NOTHING has come of it. They do NOT show up in hordes, nor will they ever.

Now, I will say that the local clubs have done their own damages, too, by REFUSING to support field archery, too. Seems like most clubs keep field tournaments a big secret, but will trip over themselves to promote and advertise any and all 3-D events with banners, signs, flyers in local clubs...etc.
However when a field or target shoot is scheduled...you almost have to hear about it "through the grapevine"; otherwise nobody knows about it at all...you don't see the ads or flyers around.

THAT is also hypocritical and a travesty too. MOST clubs' charters and constitutions have a statement in them about "supporting ALL phases of archery"...but if you attend their meetings; there is danged little support for field or target archery; they don't wanna talk about it, and they don't wanna spend the funding for target archery either, to the point that they'll take out field targets completely, have nowhere to practice at all other than a half-dilapidated "practice range" with leaky bales out in the sun and then wonder why they don't have any members out shooting all the time.

OR...there will be a field course and you constantly hear about it costing too much to support it and "nobody is shooting it"...but yet the target bales are worn out...AND...the targets on the bales are shot full of arrow holes. I guess the angels, devils, or maybe sasquatches are shooting all those holes in those targets...or so it would seem, hahahaha.

So much for the club following its own charter and constitution/bylaws and supporting ALL phases of archery.

Blast away folks, but I'm telling it like it IS.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Is the issue that a 3D shooter being introduced to field does not understand or maybe does not accept that he is not expected to hit the 5 most of the time at first. What does this archer practice on? A bag with the little dots? If he is frustrated with our current target, perhaps the distances are as intimidating as the target.

Whereas, I realize that the old target would be better for these "new to field" archers, we really cannot go back across the board. It was tried in the nineties and was a failure.

Is there any merit to using the cub and youth distances for "new to field" archers or would they feel patronized or discriminated upon.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

field14 said:


> Now, I will say that the local clubs have done their own damages, too, by REFUSING to support field archery, too. Seems like most clubs keep field tournaments a big secret, but will trip over themselves to promote and advertise any and all 3-D events with banners, signs, flyers in local clubs...etc. However when a field or target shoot is scheduled...you almost have to hear about it "through the grapevine"; otherwise nobody knows about it at all...you don't see the ads or flyers around.
> 
> THAT is also hypocritical and a travesty too. MOST clubs' charters and constitutions have a statement in them about "supporting ALL phases of archery"...but if you attend their meetings; there is danged little support for field or target archery; they don't wanna talk about it, and they don't wanna spend the funding for target archery either, to the point that they'll take out field targets completely, have nowhere to practice at all other than a half-dilapidated "practice range" with leaky bales out in the sun and then wonder why they don't have any members out shooting all the time.
> 
> OR...there will be a field course and you constantly hear about it costing too much to support it and "nobody is shooting it"...but yet the target bales are worn out...AND...the targets on the bales are shot full of arrow holes. I guess the angels, devils, or maybe sasquatches are shooting all those holes in those targets...or so it would seem, hahahaha.


Gosh, Tom, don't make it sound so bleak....or maybe I just have it pretty lucky here in Maryland. Yes, I've heard that the active shooter numbers are down considerably throughout the sport, but there is still a field tournament nearly every weekend hosted by one or several of our 11 associated field archery clubs. Yes, it is a lot of work and $$ to properly maintain a field archery range, but it gets done and we do our best to ensure the bales are in good shape and there are fresh targets on the bales, and our facility is advertised as an active field archery range throughout the state both online and in printed media and every one of our new members must attend a safety orientation to learn how to properly walk a field range as well as going over basic archery safety. We also actively support 3D and FITA-style archery games by hosting a 3D league and maintaining a small 40-90 meter practice area. Finally, most of our meetings are about what needs to be done on the field range or property to keep it a safe and enjoyable place for our members or how many instructors will be needed to assist with teaching classes, etc. Promote archery we do, and follow our charter, we do that also... 

To address the OP's concerns, during the week, most of the competitive shooters and many of the non-competitive members can be found on one of the ranges shooting a half with their friends or just practicing on the practice bales, again in the company of archery friends... Just because we compete and enjoy attending tournaments, does not mean that we have lost sight of the enjoyment of just shooting arrows with a bunch of buddies after work...


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Maryland is an exception and has a lot of field clubs.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

We are very fortunate here in my area of Illinois, too. The local club maintains a field range, well-kept practice area from 10-65 yards, and also a FITA area where any member can shoot full distance FITA if they so desire. In addition, they host at least one 3-D shoot a month, along with field shoots, and some 900 rounds.
The archers in this area are very good about things and will normally shoot anything that is put up in the way of targets for them to shoot. That isn't to say, however that field shooting and NFAA field shoots are well populated, however. Numbers are low, but of late are starting to show some gains in participation.
However, it is a very, very tough road to hoe what with so many other activities going on all the time that compete for a piece of people's time.

I've been fortunate during my lifetime to have participated in field shoots in a lot of areas of the USA. I can recall going to a scheduled field shoot every weekend between May and October, too. I can remember "field leagues" not only of the club type, but intra-club field leagues as well. Rotations of field shoots from one club to another with a schedule and there weren't any other tournaments scheduled against those on the same weekend either.
Those days have come and gone, and now it is anyone vs anyone else competing for the people's time. Schedule a shoot? There will be at least one or two, or maybe more scheduled against it on any given weekend, and everyone suffers for it.

Many of the places that I used to shoot when I lived in those areas are defunct; long gone, and shut down or become biking trails, horse riding areas, or walking trails, never to be archery facilities again. I could go on and on about the causes, etc, but opt not to.
I could reiterate how hard most of these clubs worked trying to keep things going and how the difficult the opposition to field shooting became and forced migration to exclusively 3-D, and then, in many, many cases, the loss of the range completely.
Those that survived are those that KEPT their field courses and kept a place to practice other than just a practice range. Those that fell into oblivion are those that foresaked their field ranges and went totally 3-D and nothing else other than a small practice range and nowhere else to shoot excepting at the 3-D tournament events.
Sad, but that has been the case and I don't just speak of one or two places I've seen or been, but rather nearly all of them.


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

FS560 said:


> Is the issue that a 3D shooter being introduced to field does not understand or maybe does not accept that he is not expected to hit the 5 most of the time at first. What does this archer practice on? A bag with the little dots? If he is frustrated with our current target, perhaps the distances are as intimidating as the target.
> 
> Whereas, I realize that the old target would be better for these "new to field" archers, we really cannot go back across the board. It was tried in the nineties and was a failure.
> 
> *Is there any merit to using the cub and youth distances for "new to field" archers or would they feel patronized or discriminated upon*.


That is exactly what I do when I take someone out to shoot field. Most are bowhunters and do not have pins sighted in for the longer distances. I also recommend shooting 2 or 3 arrows instead of 4. And if they get tired, just shoot 1 or skip a target. After a trip or two most want to get sighted in for field, though they still have trouble shooting a full course.


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

field14, What your missing is that in unknown 3D, the excuse is already built in. As the arrow sales over the back of the deer you will hear "man that was a good shot but I misjudged the distance". Or " I couldn't see the scoring lines, I thought that was a center 10".

There is almost always an excuse handy for a bad shot in 3D. 

There are very few excuses in field.


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## fibonacci4u (Jun 11, 2002)

There are many good points here, as well as many "stereotypes" about different venues and the archers that shoot them. I am not a fanboy of any type of venue, for I shoot and enjoy all types of archery. In fact, I love each type. I agree that field archery does not need a target change. However, I do believe the full round needs a reduction in the number of arrows. Now, I already know there is a shorter round on the books. Additionally, field distances need to be assigned based on ability level, not gender or equipment. Of course, this would require that someone set a legitimate average over time. (BTW: We shoot a ten week field league here in NE Ohio. We have seen a bit of a resurgence in field here.) As support of each of the above premises, I only ask one to look at the decrease in golfing numbers. Now, we archers are quick to tout golf as the "parallel" sport for archery. Well, consider golf's pick it up campaign. Golfers are being encouraged to play shorter tees in an attempt to speed up the game. Golf courses are considering changing courses to three six hole loops to make 18 holes. The whole idea is that golf takes too long to play. Well, archery takes too long to play. Whether we like it our not people and those that are growing up (I am a MS principal, so I can tell you.) want instant gratification and move from task to task quicker than old souls like myself. People have shorter attention spans, too. We can debate why this is and whether it is right or wrong. The fact that remains, however, is that IT IS WHAT IT IS. So, what are we archers going to do about it?


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## rogersaddler (Feb 4, 2009)

In the area where I live. Northeastern Michigan in the lower peninsula there isn't a field course within 100 miles of me. But the is a few clubs with 3D courses close by I think that is the reason field is declining around my area. When I lived in Lower MI there was a few clubs me and my friends could just go shoot for the fun of it


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

FS560 said:


> It seems like archers think of archery only in terms of tournaments anymore. This is not just field but 3D also.
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> ...


They are used to being able to go to a gathering of archers (tournament) every weekend within 1 hour of their home. For the most part the "tournaments" they speak of are not particularly competitive competitions. Many times the best archers don't even turn their score cards in to be considered for an award. Many archers are seeking a sense of accomplishment and even a $5 second place trophy makes them feel good. Many of the 3D'ers are shooting for fun with friends and friendly competition.

So when they say * "where is a tournament" *they are essentially saying "where are folks shooting field where we can learn the game, shoot and socialize with friends".


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> they are essentially saying "where are folks shooting field where we can learn the game, shoot and socialize with friends".


The club system is gone.

For 3D, that means a tournament pursuant to your definition thereof, since 3D clubs/ranges cannot afford to leave rubber deer up all the time. But what do 3D shooters practice on other than bags in their yard?

Kent, I realize that, although you do not shoot field but would likely be a 550 shooter, you probably practice on field targets at least up to 50 yards in your yard. So are you the exception to the 15 yard backyard bag practice for 3D shooters?

If there were more field clubs, would 3D shooters join to have a venue to accomplish the objective set forth in red above? I think probably not, because of what they are accustomed to already.

Would any be likely to try it if the Field 30 and Field 50 shooting divisions were implemented as I set forth in another thread.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

Imho There is a problem imho with busting up your arrows in a field round. I think they could cut the number of arrows down and it It would help. Most average 3d guys shoot regular arrows and would just end up tearing fletchings and splitting arrows. Arrows are also harder to pull in fild rounds I've shot.

Most of the average 3d shooters are hacks at best imho. So shooting multiple arrows at a marked distance with there short ata bows and long draws quickly exposes them and hurts egos. 

Field is one of the best shoots you can practice if your looking for consistancy in your shooting at multiple distances. Its a shame there isn't more ranges and more participation. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

The people I shoot with are more the exception than the rule in 3D. For example most if not all of them shoot indoor spots in the winter. 

Just the cost of the arrows that most people use makes busting or losing arrows a problem. A field range is really overwhelming for many 3D'ers. 

With little interest in the field archery game you can't have ranges. Without ranges you can't get archers into the game. The best chance field archery has of surviving beyond being a novelty is to create a new game more capable of drawing the interest of the largest number of bow buyers. Have the max distance be say 50 yards. Reduce the number of arrows or increase the number of target faces so that arrows are less likely to be lost or destroyed. Right now I think the best way to increase the exposure of field archery to 3D'ers is to have say a mini 6 target course. Hold local 3D tournaments and have the mini field course as a novelty "money" shoot. But honestly I just don't see field EVER making even a minor come back.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> The people I shoot with are more the exception than the rule in 3D. For example most if not all of them shoot indoor spots in the winter.
> 
> Just the cost of the arrows that most people use makes busting or losing arrows a problem. _A field range is really overwhelming for many 3D'ers. _
> 
> With little interest in the field archery game you can't have ranges. Without ranges you can't get archers into the game. The best chance field archery has of surviving beyond being a novelty is to create a new game more capable of drawing the interest of the largest number of bow buyers. *Have the max distance be say 50 yards*. Reduce the number of arrows or increase the number of target faces so that arrows are less likely to be lost or destroyed. Right now I think the best way to increase the exposure of field archery to 3D'ers is to have say a mini 6 target course. Hold local 3D tournaments and have the mini field course as a novelty "money" shoot. But honestly I just don't see field EVER making even a minor come back.


Ok....First off..."overwhelming" for 3-ders I cannot buy...Many of them are perfectly willing to take those expensive arrows and shoot at a rubber deer and UNMARKED distances of 80-100 yards or even more...pay money extra to do that, and sling arrows off into the trees and/or break/lose them...and LAUGH about it! Yet, give them a four foot square or circular bale at MARKED distance and they won't shoot at it? That "overhwhelming" doesn't hold water. The rubber deer at 40-50 yards in many cases are SMALLER than the...again 4 foot square backstop on most field courses for even targets as close as 15 yards! 

Next is this 50 yard max for bowhunters, or whatever....Pennsylvania has done this for years...a 50 yard max for "bowhunter shooters"...and they do NOT flock to field shoots. Other places I've been have even tried for 40 yard max distance for "beginners" and that didn't work either...but those same "inexperienced people" will go out and even tho they cannot hit a 3" circle at 20 yards consistently...shoot at rubber deer UNMARKED distances and go for it..>Give 'em a four foot diameter bale at MARKED distance...and they balk.

The novelty "money" shoot idea? I've seen that tried so many times, I"ve lost count. Clubs I've been in have even set up a 1/2 International round on the practice range...3 arrows per target, 10 targets, MARKED distances from 20 to 65 yards in 5-yard increments...THAT doesn't work either...but those that won't shoot that 30 arrow "novelty"..>WILL pay to shoot a novelty at rubber deer UNMARKED at 80 to 100 yards...and wait in line to do it, and laugh when they sling $12 arrows off into the brush or trees.

Combining 1/2 3-D with 1/2 field/hunter and even limiting the distance on the field part has better success, but still doesn't get the 'converts'.

MORE success is achieved when the local field shooters simply team up with some 3-Ders or bowhunters that want to try it, show them the ropes and explain the rules and just help them along through the course. MOST of the time, if this is done, most of those 3-Ders and bowhunters realize how much fun it is and also that contrary to what they've been told by the naysayers...there aren't a LOT of shots at distances over 60 yards...
Naysayers scare heck outta newbies talking about the 80 yarder (ONE arrow per half), the 70 Yarder (ONE arrow per half) and the 65 Yarder (FOUR arrows per half)...and fail to mention that the majority of the shots are 60 and under at a BIGGER target than those rubber deer at UNMARKED yardages.
Over the years, the NFAA has bent over backwards, changed this and changed that to draw this "flock" of bow hunters and recently, 3-Ders that pee and moan and say, "IF you'd change this and that, then we'll start coming"...WRONG...they STILL won't show up; just find another excuse.
More converts are gotten by the local field shooters almost literally "drafting" the 3-Ders and bow hunters to come on out and shoot a round with them and we'll show you the REAL ropes and you can see for yourself rather than listening to some naysayer that doesn't really know squat other than to bad-mouth field shooting and that the NFAA doesn't have anything to offer them.
Those same naysayers haven't a clue about the personal achievement awards that are available to an NFAA member that CANNOT be gotten from the IBO or the ASA!!!
IBO and ASA are the ones that really are ALL about "tournaments"...they offer nothing in the way of achievement awards for their tournaments other than money and some other awards. No League awards, no Scoring awards for attaining a score level, nothing for big and small game or bow fishing...
The NFAA offers ALL of those types of awards for achievement...and MORE.

As for field not making an even MINOR comeback...you might wanna gather in the horses on that one...in many areas of the country, that comeback IS happening as more 3-Ders are realizing the cost per arrow and the amount of time spent out on the course for a 3-D event is really pretty counter productive. When properly introduced to field shooting most of the 3-Ders and bowhunters quickly find that, holy smokes, I get to SHOOT MY BOW and get lots of arrows in a way shorter amount of time...and learn how to shoot better by doing it.

It is slow progress, but in many areas FIELD shooting is on an upward trend - - it isn't spiraling or sky-rocketing, but it is improving. With proper promotion of the FUN and personal achievement part of it...which used to be more of what the NFAA was all about...it will grow. However, the field shooters themselves have got to counter the naysayers and show those that want to try and want to learn the "Ropes" and tell them about all the personal achievement awards available to an NFAA member that those people cannot get from the other orgs...other than 30 or 40 shot tournaments.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

field14 said:


> Ok....First off..."overwhelming" for 3-ders I cannot buy...Many of them are perfectly willing to take those expensive arrows and shoot at a rubber deer and UNMARKED distances of 80-100 yards or even more...pay money extra to do that, and sling arrows off into the trees and/or break/lose them...and LAUGH about it! Yet, give them a four foot square or circular bale at MARKED distance and they won't shoot at it? That "overhwhelming" doesn't hold water. The rubber deer at 40-50 yards in many cases are SMALLER than the...again 4 foot square backstop on most field courses for even targets as close as 15 yards!
> 
> Next is this 50 yard max for bowhunters, or whatever....Pennsylvania has done this for years...a 50 yard max for "bowhunter shooters"...and they do NOT flock to field shoots. Other places I've been have even tried for 40 yard max distance for "beginners" and that didn't work either...but those same "inexperienced people" will go out and even tho they cannot hit a 3" circle at 20 yards consistently...shoot at rubber deer UNMARKED distances and go for it..>Give 'em a four foot diameter bale at MARKED distance...and they balk.
> 
> ...


First off I assure you I KNOW exactly what I am talking about in MY area and region. I certainly have never suggested I know exactly what is happening in other parts of the country. I hope attendance is increasing across the board. But with a whopping 325 archers at outdoor nationals it does not seem to be. But then again it could simply be it is not a good location for a significant number of field archers but that would be another topic of discussion.

Twice you mention current field archers influencing 3D'ers to shoot field and the 3D'ers will find out how much fun it is. All I can say to that is "maybe". It is not like 3D just fell out of the sky with a high level of popularity. In the early years of 3D many of the first 3D'ers were archers that had been shooting field prior to 3D. Field archers _*chose*_ to walk away from field archery to shoot 3D. I know around here a couple of field clubs collapsed and became 3D clubs exclusively. I don't know how you counter the "naysayers" because I really don't know anyone that says field archery is a "bad" game. One thing 3D has that field archery does not have as much of is excuses. I shoot a lot of indoor spots and MANY archers have a hard time dealing with the cold hard truth. At the little local weekend 3D tournaments around here it's mostly just people slinging arrows and scores are many times "fuzzy". To not at least take a hard look at the most popular form of archery and it's organization for ideas is simply an ignorant mistake.......... 

The ASA does VERY well listening to it's customers, trying new things and adapting quickly. Whereas, the NFAA is a terribly structured and dis-functioning organization. It was pathetic the way membership had to virtually beat them over the head to accept the use of the internet........I could go on for some time with examples!!! The way rules are made and enforced is a stone cold joke. Honestly, I struggle at times to continue paying my dues and it is not because of the cost.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Kent, we have never discussed the relative mental attitude of average scoring 3D shooters having difficulty coming to grips with reality when shooting indoor spots. Pursuant to your observations, the issue may simply be whether the average archer can have more fun with 3D than field or even indoor spots.

If your observation is an accurate representation of the average archer nationwide, the pool of potential converts from 3D to field is minimal at best.

Field archery will live or die at the local level with archers having fun, not with the pros or national championships. If we do not have an adequate pool of potential converts at the local level, we have a problem.

NASP is not the answer because it ends with graduation from high school and many teenagers stop archery when they start driving. this happened with my son within two months of getting his license.

What is the current situation with local 3d shoots with regard to distances? At one time 3D attendance had been dwindling due to local club hotshots setting up the ranges so hard that the average shooters just stopped showing up.

Everyone should read the early history of the NFAA by John Yount (one of the original founders) and Roy Hoff. It is in the History section on the NFAA website www.fieldarchery.com. Field archery began in about 1934 as a result of archers, nationwide, being fed up with the regimentation and precision required for NAA target archery. NFAA was first organized in 1939 with one shooting style, instinctive/no sights, and unmarked distances. Over the next ten years membership soared to more than it is today and reached a high of 38,000 in 1965. Sound familiar to something else in more recent times.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> First off I assure you I KNOW exactly what I am talking about in MY area and region. I certainly have never suggested I know exactly what is happening in other parts of the country. I hope attendance is increasing across the board. But with a whopping 325 archers at outdoor nationals it does not seem to be. But then again it could simply be it is not a good location for a significant number of field archers but that would be another topic of discussion.
> 
> Twice you mention current field archers influencing 3D'ers to shoot field and the 3D'ers will find out how much fun it is. All I can say to that is "maybe". It is not like 3D just fell out of the sky with a high level of popularity. In the early years of 3D many of the first 3D'ers were archers that had been shooting field prior to 3D. Field archers _*chose*_ to walk away from field archery to shoot 3D. I know around here a couple of field clubs collapsed and became 3D clubs exclusively. I don't know how you counter the "naysayers" because I really don't know anyone that says field archery is a "bad" game. One thing 3D has that field archery does not have as much of is excuses. I shoot a lot of indoor spots and MANY archers have a hard time dealing with the cold hard truth. At the little local weekend 3D tournaments around here it's mostly just people slinging arrows and scores are many times "fuzzy". To not at least take a hard look at the most popular form of archery and it's organization for ideas is simply an ignorant mistake..........
> 
> The ASA does VERY well listening to it's customers, trying new things and adapting quickly. Whereas, the NFAA is a terribly structured and dis-functioning organization. It was pathetic the way membership had to virtually beat them over the head to accept the use of the internet........I could go on for some time with examples!!! The way rules are made and enforced is a stone cold joke. Honestly, I struggle at times to continue paying my dues and it is not because of the cost.


I recall some years ago one of the leaders of a 3-D organization (way back when) went on record as saying something like, "I'd like to see the NFAA go defunct." or something to that effect. At that point, the major 3-D events started to be scheduled on the same weekends as the major NFAA events and in many cases, that continues to this very day. True, there are only so many weekends during the warm season, but... it is so uncanny that those 3-D events are continuously on that same weekend and the following or preceding weekend...nothing else big is going on? Coincidence? IDTS.

The ASA and IBO are ALL about tournaments and money winnings, period. There isn't anything else offered other than tournament play and money and some awards. NOTHING in the manner of personal achievement items.
There is way more potential of losing arrows and breaking equipment, but few complain about slinging $12 arrows off into the trees...but they sure complain when they have to shoot at a 4 foot square or round shooting backstop at MARKED distances farther than even 40 or 50 yards. Distance is only a lame excuse.
Nope...it is NOT the distances or number of arrows that is the problem. It is the total lack of promotion starting at individual and going thru to club, local, regional, sectional, and National levels. They all are dropping the ball and have for many years.

When was the last time you took some newbies out to a field range and showed them the ropes and explained things to them? When was the last time you took a close look at the flyers posted on bulletin boards and took the time to make sure that the FIELD SHOOT flyer(s), if any, weren't buried UNDER the ads for 3-D shoots?
Personally, I've had to move the field shoot flyers to the forefront and from under the 3-D event flyers too many times to count. Do I get tired of it? Yes, I do, but I will move the field tournament announcements and flyers to the forefront if I see that they've been cast aside or put asunder.

So back we are to the subject...ALL ABOUT TOURNAMENTS...and yet the IBO and ASA are only concerned with TOURNAMENT activity on a large scale and don't offer anything outside of the TOURNAMENT formats.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

yep, tournaments are where its at...as a geezer who will never wind up on the podium unless nobody else shows up, i will say shooting the tournaments with the idea that i'm going to try to better my previous score is a big motivator. beyond that i appreciate the fact that when i go to a tournament i'm going to be shooting with people i've come to know and whose company i enjoy.

both the ibo and asa support tournaments that are not so large scale. i just shot the indiana state asa shoot and it was anything but large scale...and i had a great time shooting with some guys i'd never met before and we had a good time. asa and ibo also encourage state qualifiers and state championships that drew considerable less than the thousand plus that show up at the national level shoots.

i shot the ifaa shoots and guess what...at the field shoot we shot 28 field targets and went home. at the 3d shoot we shot foam and went home. at the 900 shoot we shot the 900 and went home...when i go to an asa pro am i shoot the team shoot, i shoot the SIMMS known distance range, i shoot the practice range and the practice bales...lots of variety to keep me busy. i do wish the ibo offered more in the way of variety, but they don't...that's probably why i don't shoot that many ibo's anymore.

many of the 3d shooters are shooting those fat arrows that don't do so well on the field range. lots of those guys shoot heavier draw bows that can start to wear on you if you're shooting over 100 arrows and hikin' through the woods. i keep two setups one for 3d and another for field and fita type stuff. some folks might balk at that, others might not.

in any event i'm not sure what the answer is to declining participation in field, but i don't think it involves ignoring the attraction of other types of shooting.


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## NM_HighPlains (Nov 25, 2005)

I shot the NM NFAA rounds this year, including the grueling Grand Field. I have to drive 120 miles one way to shoot _anything_ and when I go to a 3D shoot, I get to shoot 40 arrows- maybe 50 if it's a "big" shoot. At the indoor NFAA, I shot 120 arrows, at the Field and Hunter rounds it was 112 arrows and on the Animal I shot 28. That's more like it. I drove 240 miles one way to make the NFAA rounds and I drove 400 miles one way to the Grand Field (where we shot Field, Animal, and Hunter). 

I shoot 3D for hunting practice and that means I use my rangefinder (illegal on all of our courses) on 1/2 the shots, I don't use an umbrella, and I use hunting equipment. I don't like to wound animals, so I score 12, 10, -5. None of the 3D shoots I've shot here in NM simulate hunting at all. I like to shoot my bow- 3D doesn't offer that. Frankly, after shooting the NFAA this year, I don't care if I ever see another 3D round. I'll set my personal 3D targets up in my creek and "hunt" them, but I really can't see going to a 3D shoot again.

I don't understand the statement that Field is rough on arrows- I shot the same 8 arrows all year and yeah, I re-fletched a couple, but I still had them.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

field14 said:


> I recall some years ago one of the leaders of a 3-D organization (way back when) went on record as saying something like, "I'd like to see the NFAA go defunct." or something to that effect. At that point, the major 3-D events started to be scheduled on the same weekends as the major NFAA events and in many cases, that continues to this very day. True, there are only so many weekends during the warm season, but... it is so uncanny that those 3-D events are continuously on that same weekend and the following or preceding weekend...nothing else big is going on? Coincidence? IDTS.
> 
> The ASA and IBO are ALL about tournaments and money winnings, period. There isn't anything else offered other than tournament play and money and some awards. NOTHING in the manner of personal achievement items.
> There is way more potential of losing arrows and breaking equipment, but few complain about slinging $12 arrows off into the trees...but they sure complain when they have to shoot at a 4 foot square or round shooting backstop at MARKED distances farther than even 40 or 50 yards. Distance is only a lame excuse.
> ...


1st - It was not "the lack of promotion" of field archery that made 3D so popular some years ago drawing archers away from field archery. So I contend the few field clubs still in existence won't make much head way by a handful of people posting more fliers.

2nd - We can criticize the big 3D archery orgs until we are blue in the face but that does zero to help field archery and is much more likely to alienate 3D'ers. I must say though that there is only one true "big" fundamentally sound 3d org and that is the ASA.

3rd - I have NEVER taken anyone onto a field range to shoot field archery. One big reason is because I have NEVER shot a single field round!! Some years ago I set up some A/C/C 3-28's to use shooting field but I never got around to actually getting on a course. You see I hunt a lot, I shoot indoor spots for fun and competitively and I got into 3D for fun and competition...... I have had some success shooting spots and shooting 3D. I've also got friends (bow hunters) into shooting some spots and some 3D so I've continued with those games. There really isn't much time left for another hobby. However, I can very much see me backing off on 3D and playing field archery for recreation.

3D took off because people liked playing that game more than field archery. Personally, I find the way the NFAA is run appalling so I find it difficult at times to promote them. The NFAA needs NEW, energetic, creative and enthusiastic leadership across the board and I mean from the Dakotas all the way to the Gulf of Mexico!!!! The field game needs to reinvented.


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## Archery Power (Feb 4, 2005)

Kstigal: 
1. What would it take to get you to shoot Field Arcgery?

2. What do you think is wrong with the Field Round as it is today?

3. Do you think the NFAA ORG. is the problem with getting archers to shoot Field Archery?


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## Eriks (Nov 8, 2011)

Just some perspective on this "too hard" thing. Many field courses in the US were set up by archers shooting woodies off the shelf with recurves with no sights and longbows. They are not too hard. Some of us still shoot trad (although not many shooting woodies or off the shelf) because we enjoy the challenge.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Just want to advise that Kent Stigall is an NFAA member.

Kent and I were on the phone today for 2.5 hours talking about these very subjects. He is on his way to Alabama to shoot rubber deer at the ASA CLassic, but he may answer your questions soon. He is not your average 3D shooter because he is probably 550 field capable.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Personally, I think it is a matter of 'should', not 'need', but may be needed because folks don't understand the should...sign of the times I suppose.

I'd be more in favor of a basic hygiene rule, especially indoors. No matter how pretty someone dresses, it can't mask the stank that they carry after days of avoiding a shower...


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## memosteve (Nov 24, 2012)

I just wish we had field archery around here, in the PNW! I shoot 3D only because that's what's available...I enjoy it but, I don't really hunt anymore, and that's not my interest in archery.
I would really rather shoot field, as that seems to be more inline with my mentality of the type of target archery I would enjoy!

Just sucks that there really isn't any of that going on in my area!


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## nanayak (Dec 6, 2008)

FS560 said:


> Maryland is an exception and has a lot of field clubs.


Jim- MD is the exception to rule for a simple set of reasons. First and foremost all the clubs recognize that archery in any way shape or form needs to be promoted and encouraged with our new incoming generationj wheither its the kids we teach -n winter or the 28 year old that I helpn to the 50 year old bow hunter looking to improve his shot. Its about archers helping archers. That's our attitude. 

I've taken 3D'ers out on a field range when they've wanted to try a field round. They shoot a slightly modified "dot" when it comes to the extreme distances. They laugh until they try to hit the barcode from 30 yards. After 14, they know wheither its something they will enjoy, something they will do regularly, or something they will avoid. 

I had 1 guy look at me after 28 targets and tell me to " go to hell"! Its too many targets to him. He tried it, enjoyed the challenge, and will eventually try it again.

We help each other in MD. And MD archers have another common goal: supporting a very special Camp.

MD archers: Archers helping archers of all kinds, shapes, sizes, colors, walks of life, and any one willing to take the first step and say they are interested.
Its our attitude. Literally.


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## 60x backstrap (Jan 6, 2010)

Very good thread! I can see where clubs get burnt out maintaining field courses. Our club doesn't even have a field course and it's hard to get help. And what help you do get seems to come from the same 5 or 6 people. I'm new to field archery and lovin it! The hills, angles, and especially the distance and number of arrows shot are what make it worth your drive. I'd much rather spend 3-4 hours shooting 122 arrows at a shotgun start in field vs. 3-6 hours standing in a backed up line to shoot 28-30 arrows at a 3d shoot. There both fun and challenging but since I don't judge yardage well I don't like to compete in 3d. I just shoot it for fun.
I must say how impressed I am as I read some of the threads and posts on AT, about the history and background of field shooting, and the ability of the gentlemen on here shooting recurve bows and the outstanding scores they put up over the years. It's obvious It's not the equipment. You can't buy a good score. I think I'll go practice. Bret C.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Archery Power said:


> Kstigal:
> 1. What would it take to get you to shoot Field Arcgery? 1) Another ASA tournament performance like this past weekend! 2) A course within say an hours drive. 3) An NFAA leadership and state organization that is NOT absolutely pathetic, inept, and of questionable integrity! I run indoor spot leagues and I'm almost embarrassed to promote the NFAA. Don't dig too deep into how it is managed, structured and goes about it's daily business unless you have a strong stomach.
> 
> 2. What do you think is wrong with the Field Round as it is today? FS560 and I have discussed this. The _typical _field game as it is currently known is now obviously of little interest to many archers. Ultimately a "new" field game needs to be developed. A current field game that is rarely used may be the basis for the new game but the game needs reinventing using some of what we know has worked for 3D. When I say 3D I specifically mean ASA and not IBO 3D. The IBO has chosen to be frozen in the time when it was "the" 3D game not much unlike the NFAA has done.
> ...




I hesitate to drag this thread back up but it seems to not have gone too far astray. My responses are in blue above........

Go to a national ASA event and walk some of the courses. Pay attention to the atmosphere of the entire area. 

- ASA courses are generally easy and anyone can go onto the courses to observe. The courses are conducive to interaction amongst archers in other groups.
- 4 arrows per archer per target is no longer viable for a game to be popular. I see 3D'ers at local shoots every day with only a single handful of arrows. Yes, they may have a $1,000 in their set up with $150 a dozen arrows. BUT they can't be losing expensive arrows every weekend. Yes, many 3d'ers think nothing of busting up arrows but MANY can't or chose not to lose many arrows. Personally, my enjoyment of fletching up arrows is fairly limited........
- Long range shooting is NOT what most archers do well enough to enjoy. Heck, most 3D'ers don't want to shoot at anything over 35 - 40 yards.
- Because 3D shooting has a certain amount of unknown archers feel less personally responsible for shanked shots. No one knows for sure what they will score that day or really what a "good" score will be. I know, we all know, what it takes to have a shot at placing high in BHFS at indoor nationals but that is not the case with 3D.
- I have no problem with shooting targets at 60 or 70 yards with arrows costing $15 a piece. But for many folks that plan on using a single half dozen arrows for indoor spots, practice and hunting that is not the case. Our little indoor league has more than a few folks that can't or will not take on the expense. Heck, I won't even shoot 16 of my own 3D arrows into a single dot at 60 yards! If I did that a few times a day a few times a week I'd have to fletch a dozen shafts a week.........not going to happen. 
- Reduce the number of arrows shot per target station, increase the number of targets faces on each bale and decreasing the yardage would be a start.
- As much as the NFAA hates the idea focus on the "bow hunter" market. ALL the largest bow manufacturers do!

3D is _the _archery game right now. The field archery game needs to be "reinvented" to compete. The old days are long gone. The "archery market" is nothing like it was in 1980.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

The ASA class that had the largest growth this year by a large margin this year was K45. K45 is a class where all the targets are known distance, archers use range finders and the gear is open or freestyle. K50 (a semi-pro class) is also growing and with 16(?) of us "shooting out" of K45 this year it should continue growing. Open C class will be a 40 yard all know distance class next year. The Womens K40 has good participation. Maybe it's too late for the NFAA field game or maybe the known distance classes in the ASA means the NFAA field game has potential....... But the potential is NOT there for the current field game.

At the ASA shoot in London, Ky last year there were 104 archers in K45. This year there were 144.

ASA participation showed decent growth from the previous year AGAIN.
ASA 2013 attendance, total 9,372 shooters while averaging per shoot 1,339.
ASA 2012 attendance, total 8,781 while averaging 1,254


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

field14 said:


> Whoah - - -- wait a minute here. What is so hard about hitting a target at MARKED DISTANCE that is WAY BIGGER than a rubber deer.
> 
> I"m tired of this "field archery is too hard" crap. Those same people will go out on a 3-D course and shoot a rubber deer at UNMARKED distances with $12 arrows; launch several into the trees and/or break them and LAUGH about it! Then, they'll go buy more arrows and come back again to shoot rubber deer.
> 
> ...


My sentiments exactly. Go tell the people who started field archery back in the forties, shooting 80 yards with old recurves and wood arrows or 24srt aluminums that would bend just by looking at them. Nowadays, with modern recurves and compounds, the targets are too hard? Sounds like the liberal education system which is afraid to give a poor grade to a student because they don't want to destroy their psyche for the rest of that poor students life. Give me a break.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

itbeso said:


> My sentiments exactly. Go tell the people who started field archery back in the forties, shooting 80 yards with old recurves and wood arrows or 24srt aluminums that would bend just by looking at them. Nowadays, with modern recurves and compounds, the targets are too hard? Sounds like the liberal education system which is afraid to give a poor grade to a student because they don't want to destroy their psyche for the rest of that poor students life. Give me a break.



Whatever....... Field archery won't be the first time something big and popular died off because the leadership refused to grow and adapt. But if all that matters to the leadership of the NFAA is that they continue to be in control then stay the course.

What was going on in archery in the forties means about zip when now trying to keep the game alive. 

The american car industry went on life support because they refused to acknowledge reality........ Big Brother can not bail out the game of field archery. They may keep the NFAA afloat but that means nothing to those that enjoy archery locally which is the vast majority. If the ASA decides to have an indoor spot tournament series in the winter the NFAA might as well change it's name to Easton/Cull Archery at Yankton...........or have they already? I can guarantee the very first indoor spot ASA tournament would be better run and organized than any NFAA tournament!!


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## webb babcock (Jul 6, 2004)

Kent, what would it take to get you to come to Walton Park Bowhunters range [ Izaak Walton Park Amherst, Va.] to shoot with us Sat. & Sun. 8-10 & 11 2013? Would you shoot Free Style on the VBA traditional rules 50 yards max.distance. If so I will set it up. This would be a seperate class for guest, at this VFAA state shoot.No awards bragging rights only. I am shooting a recurve no sights with a trigger release [ for no awards ]. If you would bring a few shooters for the 50 yd division. I will set this up Webb Babcock 434-528-3855 President Walton Park Bowhunters, Izaak Walton Park 210 conservation lane Amherst, Va.--Webb Babcock


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Field Shooter said:


> Jim Quarles: I agree with you, But it is very hard to take a shooter to the Field range with this target that we now shoot, Almost all of the shooters that tries to shoot this very hard target
> quites before the round is over because of how hard the round is. The answer is a target that the week end archer can hit with what is preceived to be not to hard of a target to hit.
> First of all we will have to convence the new archers that they can hit the target with very little effort and then they will be a week end club shooter. It all goes back its hard to sale something that
> a person is not in the market for. And you can be sure it is not the field target we shoot today. The answer is to reinvent the field round to some type of a target that is user frindly that the week end
> shooter will enjoy shooting. The key word is to ( enjoy ). Then more archers will come out and shoot the field round at the club on a week end basice and then Field archery will grow back to what it once was.


What kind of shooters do you have in your area? :fear: I have done this numerous times....with guys that have shot for years hunting and shooting a 3D once a year or so....MAYBE. To guys who had bow setup for them six months prior for the 1st time. None of them struggled like that. Yes they missed the face at times. But none of them missed badly because of the face. Not one of them....

When they did miss...they wanted to shoot the next one in the dot... Just like they do on the range or the yard... Yep that little dot in the middle that you can see from 80yds... Is harder to hit then the dot on the bag target they shoot out to 40 at home. Heck I can't see mine lol

When the newbies I taught to play missed they wanted to do better next time....and go again. One of them sent me a txt the other day while I was fishing to see if I wanted to shoot a half the other day....another guy wants to shoot this weekend. Teach them correctly and they want to come back. :wink: 


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

The cost of arrows isn't an issue...or shouldn't be. That's an excuse....everyone damages arrows. EVERYONE... 

3D arrows are not going to be an issue....they bust up other arrows more then they get busted up. And they aren't more expensive then what most field shooters shoot. The most expensive "3D" shafts are Full Bores at $165 X Jammers and LineJammers at $170. XXXs at $170. The shafts most people that shoot field seriously...their shafts start at those prices or there about. And then they start doubling the cost. 


No Kent doesn't shoot field faces in his yard. I sure know when we shot there last year when we where hunting I shot out to 50 some yds...


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