# ASA limiting arrow diameter?



## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

So, back around the London shoot, there were whispers that ASA might be considering limiting all classes that shoot *30 yards and less* to around a 23/64 diameter arrow. Also, there was talk that S3DA (Scholastic 3D Archery) was considering the same move. As of the Cullman shoot, the talk was that it is pretty much a done-deal for S3DA, and the whispers seem to be getting louder for ASA as well. However, there is nothing official yet, but it seems like everyone on my range (Bow Novice) has at least heard this talk.

This is not a huge issue for me, because honestly I'd like to lighten my arrows and put 60# limbs on my Chill X anyway. That would make my shoulders much happier. However, for my 14 year old son (middle school pins) who already has a 30" draw with a speed limit of 240 fps, we may have to get creative with his arrow builds or have him shoot an over-spined shaft.

Anyway, I was curious if anyone might be privy to any more information than the talk on the range.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

Wouldn't bother me if they made a rule on 23-s across the board. I haven't heard no scuttlebutt about this I have heard a few other rumors that I am really to see if they are true


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## wsbark01 (Feb 26, 2009)

derwet said:


> So, back around the London shoot, there were whispers that ASA might be considering limiting all classes that shoot *30 yards and less* to around a 23/64 diameter arrow. Also, there was talk that S3DA (Scholastic 3D Archery) was considering the same move. As of the Cullman shoot, the talk was that it is pretty much a done-deal for S3DA, and the whispers seem to be getting louder for ASA as well. However, there is nothing official yet, but it seems like everyone on my range (Bow Novice) has at least heard this talk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's pretty much a done deal that all 30yrd and under will be no bigger then 23 series. As far as you son goes, there are regular size shafts, .246, that have a high GPI and can get his speed down. Also, the black eagle PS23 run different spines and higher GPI with the stiffer spine, maybe check those out.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

I've got 2 dozen Challengers on the way now. I like the range of point weights they have plus the ability to add screw-in inserts for added weight. Thought we'd try the Challengers before moving on to PS23's.


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## wsbark01 (Feb 26, 2009)

derwet said:


> I've got 2 dozen Challengers on the way now. I like the range of point weights they have plus the ability to add screw-in inserts for added weight. Thought we'd try the Challengers before moving on to PS23's.


They are pretty much the same shaft, all the components are interchangeable.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Doubt if this would go for any class beyond those 30 yard classes. Gold Tip, Easton, and others have lots of $$$ tied up in the 27's. Plus, don't the pros really like them logs?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

wsbark01 said:


> They are pretty much the same shaft, all the components are interchangeable.


Same dimensions.......but the shafts are built significantly different. A whole different process


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

derwet said:


> This is not a huge issue for me, because honestly I'd like to lighten my arrows and put 60# limbs on my Chill X anyway. That would make my shoulders much happier. However, for my 14 year old son (middle school pins) who already has a 30" draw with a speed limit of 240 fps, we may have to get creative with his arrow builds or have him shoot an over-spined shaft.


Just FWIW, I wouldn't be pulling any more weight than I was comfortable and the most accurate with....regardless of arrow weight, or speed. BN is 100% known distance, and 30 yard max. A guy shooting 287 has no advantage over a guy shooting 237.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

tmorelli said:


> Just FWIW, I wouldn't be pulling any more weight than I was comfortable and the most accurate with....regardless of arrow weight, or speed. BN is 100% known distance, and 30 yard max. A guy shooting 287 has no advantage over a guy shooting 237.


Agreed. However, with shooting a single, fixed pin sighted at 25 yards, I need to shoot as close to 280-283 as I can get. But, with a 30.5" draw, I should be able to get the speed there using a lighter arrow without too much problem I think.


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

I heard it was specifically for BowNovice. For the simple fact of 30up+ scores in a novice class. I also heard that they might not allow back tension/or hinge style releases in the novice class!


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

I can deal with the arrow diameter being limited, but any limitations on back tension/pivotal/hinge releases would be a little much. I've only been shooting a bow for a year, and a pivotal is how I learned from the beginning.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

Mark1976 said:


> I heard it was specifically for BowNovice. For the simple fact of 30up+ scores in a novice class. I also heard that they might not allow back tension/or hinge style releases in the novice class!


That would be a very disappointing move (the hinge release thing). It wouldn't affect me personally, but I have been shooting and hunting with a hinge exclusively for at least 15 years. I can't imagine why they would consider that.


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## hoosierredneck (May 10, 2010)

If there shooting 30 up in bow novice,it's time to move up.


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

I have said for years now that bow novice should be a 1 and done class anyway,it should be considered an orientation and welcome to ASA class and nothing more.
The most abused and milked class on the roster and should only have minimal awards.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

Well I could be wrong but if your shooting a hinge there is a real possibility that your really not a novice shooter


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

ar1220 said:


> Well I could be wrong but if your shooting a hinge there is a real possibility that your really not a novice shooter


That's how I taught my wife to shoot as well as the 7 year old neighbor. 

My wife has never even shot a trigger. It has nothing to do with the level of experience.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

That's where I'm coming from too. My wife has never shot a trigger in 9-10 years of shooting, and all the college kids and younger I work with I usually start with a hinge (some switch once they get the hang of it).


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

ar1220 said:


> Well I could be wrong but if your shooting a hinge there is a real possibility that your really not a novice shooter


I agree with you about the hinge, and it also could be said for those indoor spot shooters who want to shoot fat arrows, or maybe those novices who admit to have been shooting for 15 years with a hinge. Wondering if they have been hunting with triple x arrows and want to use them as well. It's really sad that those who are not a novice shooter, want to either play the roll for the beginners, or take advantage of them and win by lying about being a novice shooter. Not in my opinion, what I call sportsmen.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

I agree that people who aren't novices shouldn't compete in the novice class, but I think novices should be allowed to shoot whatever release they want. When I am instructing a new shooter, I usually start them with a hinge. They are no less novice with their equipment than anybody else.


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

ASA is just considering things to do! If people wouldn't sand bag there wouldn't be any talk of making up more rules! It's the way of the world fellas...a few bad ones ruine it for the rest! I don't agree with a lot of the rules, but you know that a couple of idiots cause the rules to be implemented! Sad...but true


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

The catch all is the win out rule though. If a shooter is really "that good" they won't be in any amateur class for very long.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

It is disheartening. I am in Bow Novice. Started shooting a bow for the 1st time ever last August. I've had some tough tournaments, and I've had a couple of good tournaments, with several mediocre in between. For the first time yet, I put together 2 good days (at least in my opinion) at Cullman; finished 14 up for the tournament. That was a 4-way tie for 20th place. Are you kidding me!!! Man, talking about taking the wind out of my sails...

I think quite a few shooters come over from IBO, who have shot for several years there, but since they are "new" to ASA they register for bow novice. I've shot with a couple fellas this year who have done that. And, at one point, I did mention that there was a class conversion chart on ASA's website for shooters coming from IBO.

I'd love nothing more than to cash out of Bow Novice, but I honestly do not think that is realistic unless I put up a good score at a lower attendance tournament.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

And, as for the hinge release, if ASA does happen to disqualify those from Bow Novice, I will have to humbly change classes. I do not want my shot execution to suffer in the name of trying to be competitive. I think I would rather shoot to the best of my ability, even if that is in a class that I'm not very competitive.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Mark1976 said:


> ASA is just considering things to do! If people wouldn't sand bag there wouldn't be any talk of making up more rules! It's the way of the world fellas...a few bad ones ruine it for the rest! I don't agree with a lot of the rules, but you know that a couple of idiots cause the rules to be implemented! Sad...but true


Ha! Heres an example..
Shot team shoot. In london....our Bow novice guy hit 8 or 9 out 10. 12's. He said he came with 10 others... and are all open shooters but since it was there first ASA they were gonna shoot Bow Novice. Try to win some money. He admitted it and seemed plenty enthused about it....

But what can you do.. but shrug your shoulders and shake your head...

Its simple...i think, for only Bow novice and Open C (and i shoot open c)

You attend ASA and finish in the top....XX% you gone....or after 2-3-4 years you gone...
State level too just have to tweak it a bit


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Ha! Heres an example..
> Shot team shoot. In london....our Bow novice guy hit 8 or 9 out 10. 12's. He said he came with 10 others... and are all open shooters but since it was there first ASA they were gonna shoot Bow Novice. Try to win some money. He admitted it and seemed plenty enthused about it....
> 
> But what can you do.. but shrug your shoulders and shake your head...
> ...


Yes sir. Here's another Bow Novice irony. At Metropolis this year, the talk was about Levi shooting his best professional round at 26 up. That same day saw a gentleman in Bow Novice record at 28 up. Now, I realize there's a big disparity between known and unknown yardage, and also having a 30 yard max vs. a 50 yard max, but the irony did make me chuckle.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

30 up....you should look at the scores in BN when there was 14s in play!


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Interesting topic. So my first question would be: should we classify a "Novice" by experience or by equipment?

I'll be curious to see if scores go down much if they only limit the size of arrow used. My guess is the skill level of the folks shooting in Novice has more to do with the scores than the diameter of the arrow.

Like derwet stated, he's been lucky to crack the top 20 with a full-blown target set-up......I bet dropping from 27's to 23's will only lower scores by 5-10 points, if any.

I remember when "bow novice" was a hunting set-up, no lens, screw-in points, under 268 fps.


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

In my opinion there really is a need for ASA to go through those novice shooters who are, or have been shooting other organizations in advance classes, and require them to only register for the proper class. It's clear that they will take advantage of shooting with the beginners if ASA lets them. Could be that it's a sly way for ASA to lure them away from other organizations by letting them shoot as a novice, but it's still very unfair to the real novice shooters.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

Dr.Dorite said:


> In my opinion there really is a need for ASA to go through those novice shooters who are, or have been shooting other organizations in advance classes, and require them to only register for the proper class. It's clear that they will take advantage of shooting with the beginners if ASA lets them. Could be that it's a sly way for ASA to lure them away from other organizations by letting them shoot as a novice, but it's still very unfair to the real novice shooters.


I agree 100%. Either that or somehow assign a handicap like golf.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

rattlinman said:


> Interesting topic. So my first question would be: should we classify a "Novice" by experience or by equipment?
> 
> I'll be curious to see if scores go down much if they only limit the size of arrow used. My guess is the skill level of the folks shooting in Novice has more to do with the scores than the diameter of the arrow.
> 
> ...


I agree. Without a doubt, I will drop some points when switching to 23's, but not near as many as I will if I go away from a pivotal release. Do I ever get punchy with a thumb trigger...


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

My scores went up when I went from 27s to 22s and 23s......


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

While sandbagging is an issue lets not forget, some novice jump right in and start shooting lights out. I've seen too many people complaining that they cant win novice or HC because of sandbaggers. Perhaps there just not the best novice. They should do what they can to become better shooters not worry about how fat the other guys arrows are. Thats just my 1 and a half cents.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I like the variety of diameters out there up to the really fat ones, to me it allows you to choose a size that gives you positives and negatives that you can live with in your 3d game. When I am shooting a easy course with guys shooting fat arrows and light points I know that I have a huge advantage because I shoot a mid size arrow with a heavy point and when the 12 ring is really crowded I can sneak in without getting a really bad glance out where they are going to have glance outs into 8's and 5's at least once or twice for the day.

I shoot a bunch of 3d and I just don't think there is much to worry about if you can't shoot the really fat ones, just find a mid sized shaft such as a gold tip series 22 or x-cutter and you will be good to go.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Garceau said:


> My scores went up when I went from 27s to 22s and 23s......


Then you should have NEVER shot 27's in competition! :wink:

I've been shooting LineJammers (25's) for a while because they are grouping/scoring better for me than the CXL's (23's).


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

ASA has been considering limiting certain classes.....most of them have the word "hunter" in them to more hunting style equipment. Smaller diameter arrows, trigger style releases, etc. 

The 2016 rules will be out soon. All the speculation and the questions will be answered.:wink:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Tallcatt said:


> ASA has been considering limiting certain classes.....most of them have the word "hunter" in them to more hunting style equipment. Smaller diameter arrows, trigger style releases, etc.
> 
> The 2016 rules will be out soon. All the speculation and the questions will be answered.:wink:


Why mess it up when you've got a good thing going?

BN, Mens Hunter, Womens Hunter, Senior Hunter...and the only one where there seems to be a problem is in BN where you have sand baggers. Well, there is a "win out" rule that should get some of them out of that class. I'd say if you shoot BN six or more times within two years you move on out.

Here's another idea taken from the Indianapolis 500...have all the BN shooters wear three big, bright yellow rookie stripes on the back of their shirts. Lots of those BN guys roam the vendor area and the practice bales with lots of swagger...those yellow stripes might take some edge off their pride if they had to let the whole world know they're doin' baby steps. :embarres::embarres::embarres:


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

carlosii said:


> Why mess it up when you've got a good thing going?
> 
> BN, Mens Hunter, Womens Hunter, Senior Hunter...and the only one where there seems to be a problem is in BN where you have sand baggers. Well, there is a "win out" rule that should get some of them out of that class. I'd say if you shoot BN six or more times within two years you move on out.
> 
> Here's another idea taken from the Indianapolis 500...have all the BN shooters wear three big, bright yellow rookie stripes on the back of their shirts. Lots of those BN guys roam the vendor area and the practice bales with lots of swagger...those yellow stripes might take some edge off their pride if they had to let the whole world know they're doin' baby steps. :embarres::embarres::embarres:


I am not saying there will be rule changes. ASA is considering some changes. All I am saying is we will all know soon enough. In most cases when ASA has made a change it has worked out for the best.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Well we could leak info out....but I'm told that I start issues.....so I'll shut up.


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

Hmm! Sometimes just saying you could leak info out sort of insinuates that you have information. That itself could start an issue.(lol)


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Dr.Dorite said:


> Hmm! Sometimes just saying you could leak info out sort of insinuates that you have information. That itself could start an issue.(lol)


Lmqo it was implied....lmao


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Tallcatt said:


> I am not saying there will be rule changes. ASA is considering some changes. All I am saying is we will all know soon enough. In most cases when ASA has made a change it has worked out for the best.


I know...I still think the rookie stripes is an idea whose time has come. LOL


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Dr.Dorite said:


> Hmm! Sometimes just saying you could leak info out sort of insinuates that you have information. That itself could start an issue.(lol)


Doc, if BHTR3D is leaking anything it probably involves Depends. :set1_rolf2:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Kstigall said:


> Then you should have NEVER shot 27's in competition! :wink:
> 
> I've been shooting LineJammers (25's) for a while because they are grouping/scoring better for me than the CXL's (23's).


I didn't.....I wasn't willing to give up accuracy for fatter arrows.

I've said for years that a better flying/grouping smaller arrow will out score a fat poorly set up arrow everyday.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I do have an issue with the hinge going away. I hunt with a hinge, I don't believe that's a piece of equipment to be regulated.

I can get on board with arrows 23 or smaller and screw in points


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

carlosii said:


> why mess it up when you've got a good thing going?
> 
> Bn, mens hunter, womens hunter, senior hunter...and the only one where there seems to be a problem is in bn where you have sand baggers. Well, there is a "win out" rule that should get some of them out of that class. I'd say if you shoot bn six or more times within two years you move on out.
> 
> Here's another idea taken from the indianapolis 500...have all the bn shooters wear *three big, bright yellow rookie stripes on the back of their shirts. * lots of those bn guys roam the vendor area and the practice bales with lots of swagger...those yellow stripes might take some edge off their pride if they had to let the whole world know they're doin' baby steps. :embarres::embarres::embarres:


*yes!*


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

I am at a loss as to why any real bow novice would be concerned with the limitations placed on shooting that class. Do they not understand that shooting as a novice in only a temporary class for them as they start to develop those skills to advance to a higher level. My opinion is that some are looking to advance and understand why they have limitations, then some plan on staying in the novice class but want to shoot with the same setup as the advanced shooters without moving up. Maybe they are scared to shoot against others who are at their same level of the game. I am confident that Mike, and the other officials at ASA, will do what it takes to make the Sand Baggers want to move up to an advanced class.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

The yellow stripe thing is too funny. .....bn saying oh I'm prostaff....this and that.....but hey that's their choice. ....the yellow stripes would be good markers though.....lmao


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## boilerfarmer12 (Nov 22, 2011)

If bow novice is a stepping stone to say hunter class then why is bow novice known both days? or is hunter class considered the second stage where people learn to judge yardage?

I have shot AHC in IBO for one year and hunter class in one tournament the year before. I shot my first ASA sytle tournament saturday at bass and bucks. I shot 6 up with 2 8s. One of the guys in my class/group said I should be shooting K45 (i was beating him pretty good). I feel that I am going to shoot Open C for a couple years or until I get kicked out. I had shot an open setup for awhile indoors but last year went back to bowhunter freestyle. I debated for a long time whether or not I should shoot Hunter or Open C. I decided to shoot Open C to try something new (and I hate the 6" sidebar rule) and to try an open setup. It is a torally new ball game aiming for 12s. I punched a lot of 11s on saturday.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Boilerfarmer......there is a little more to know about the 6in rule for the pin classes.....that's 6in in a vertical line from connection. .....they can be 12in long just can't go past 6in vertical line....so if they are angled down they work....it's all about knowing the rules...not that I would know them ....since I was part of them written....but I don't know anything....lmao


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## wvlongshot (Aug 11, 2008)

Bow novice should be a trophy class. Motivation to move up for the money class.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

To me, it makes perfect sense to stay in a class until "cashing out". I feel like that is the perfect indicator of whether an archer will be competitive in another class. I first starting shooting a bow 13 months ago. My 1st tournament was in Newberry this year. I've shot some decent scores at a couple tournaments this year but unable to crack the top 10 yet. I can totally get on board with the arrow diameter being limited (if it is being limited). However, I don't see me taking a step backwards (at least in my mind) to using anything other than a pivotal release aid. That would be what would move me into another class, before being able to "cash out"--assuming that I could ever even achieve doing that. To me, it is personally more important to continue to shoot the way I have been taught, than to stick around trying to win out of Bow Novice. 

I look forward to seeing what the rule changes are. And I have total respect for what Mike and ASA decide for the changes. I don't know how competitive I'll be in a more advanced class, but I'll respectfully go.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

boilerfarmer12 said:


> If bow novice is a stepping stone to say hunter class then why is bow novice known both days? or is hunter class considered the second stage where people learn to judge yardage?
> 
> I have shot AHC in IBO for one year and hunter class in one tournament the year before. I shot my first ASA sytle tournament saturday at bass and bucks. I shot 6 up with 2 8s. One of the guys in my class/group said I should be shooting K45 (i was beating him pretty good). I feel that I am going to shoot Open C for a couple years or until I get kicked out. I had shot an open setup for awhile indoors but last year went back to bowhunter freestyle. I debated for a long time whether or not I should shoot Hunter or Open C. I decided to shoot Open C to try something new (and I hate the 6" sidebar rule) and to try an open setup. It is a torally new ball game aiming for 12s. I punched a lot of 11s on saturday.


"Hunter" class in the ASA is a major leap up from Open C! There is no comparison. The guys shooting 6+/- up using fixed pins on an unknown distance 40 yard, 20 target course are GOOD 3D'ers regardless of class. Shooting 10+/- up on the 20 target unknown half with fixed pins is top shelf.

I never shot Bow Novice, Open C or IBO Hunter class. My first ASA shoot was in Hunter and my first IBO shoot was in AHC. My first open class equipment shoot was in K45. If you shoot up at all in Hunter don't waste your time and energy on a novice class!!! You will not improve competing in Open C.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

I have a very good friend who shoots K45, so I might would go that route. Also, my younger son will likely end up in an open class before long, so anything I could pick up in K45 would only help him when he goes to an open class.


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## boilerfarmer12 (Nov 22, 2011)

bhtr3d said:


> Boilerfarmer......there is a little more to know about the 6in rule for the pin classes.....that's 6in in a vertical line from connection. .....they can be 12in long just can't go past 6in vertical line....so if they are angled down they work....it's all about knowing the rules...not that I would know them ....since I was part of them written....but I don't know anything....lmao


the way the rule reads is 6" from back of deepest part of grip.


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## remwin (Sep 11, 2013)

I can't believe some of the ignorant comments in this thread. In a time when it seems like archery, especially 3D & competitive archery is growing, a few still can't wait to bash others and especially those in other classes than them.



hoosierredneck said:


> If there shooting 30 up in bow novice,it's time to move up.


They are moving up. If people shoot 30 up, they win out of Novice fairly easily. It's $300 or 2 top 10 finishes. 2 guys shot 30 up at the Classic. Winner won $312, 2nd place won out as well. 



D.Short said:


> I have said for years now that bow novice should be a 1 and done class anyway,it should be considered an orientation and welcome to ASA class and nothing more.
> The most abused and milked class on the roster and should only have minimal awards.


One and done? Moving from 30 to 40 yard max is a big difference. Small problems with your shot really show up at 40 yards. Forcing people right out of novice class that can't even shoot an even 400 score at that range are really going to struggle in Hunter or Open C. If someone isn't winning out of novice, they will probably just give up competing at another level. How is it even possible to milk a class that only takes $300 or 2 top 10's to win out? If you plan on shooting multiple events, you won't be allowed in that class long if you're winning money.



shootist said:


> I agree that people who aren't novices shouldn't compete in the novice class


Who gets to decide who is a novice and who isn't? There was a group of 3 of us that attended our first ASA events this year. The other 2 guys shot some local 3D archery tournaments last year, then joined ASA this year. I'm a year behind them, but joined ASA and shot anyway. Should we take a test to see who is actually a novice and who isn't? If it is your first shoot and you want to shoot in the novice class - sign up and shoot it. If you do well, then you get forced out. I don't see the problem.



derwet said:


> It is disheartening. I am in Bow Novice. Started shooting a bow for the 1st time ever last August. I've had some tough tournaments, and I've had a couple of good tournaments, with several mediocre in between. For the first time yet, I put together 2 good days (at least in my opinion) at Cullman; finished 14 up for the tournament. That was a 4-way tie for 20th place.


I see this a lot in relation to any class. Look at the scores for every class. Known 50 in the classic had a tie at 44 up. 14 up in that class gets you 34th place. 14 up in Open C was 26th-33rd place. If you feel like your place in a tournament is too low, work at it. Change your strategy. I was right on the money line in one tournament. Really ticked me off. Bought a new bow, arrows, release, fixed my form, worked on my strategy, then won out in my next tournament. I hear people talk about the top people in their class like they shouldn't be in there. You know what, they won't be for long because they will win out and that is who you should strive to be. The person everyone wants out of their class.



nochance said:


> While sandbagging is an issue lets not forget, some novice jump right in and start shooting lights out. I've seen too many people complaining that they cant win novice or HC because of sandbaggers. Perhaps there just not the best novice. They should do what they can to become better shooters not worry about how fat the other guys arrows are. Thats just my 1 and a half cents.


Exactly right. Everyone wants to be the best in their class, without actually working to be the best. Which is why there are so many classes to begin with.



carlosii said:


> have all the BN shooters wear three big, bright yellow rookie stripes on the back of their shirts. Lots of those BN guys roam the vendor area and the practice bales with lots of swagger...those yellow stripes might take some edge off their pride if they had to let the whole world know they're doin' baby steps.


And here's the most ignorant statement in the thread. Congrats. How about people in Open C or Hunter have to wear TWO bright yellow stripes instead of three? According to ASA's site: *Open C is reserved for participants who shoot at the novice level with open equipment.* Those dirty novices in Open C! They should be made to judge targets! Some guys have "swagger?" How dare they be confident in their abilities! Knock those punks down a few notches. Absolutely ridiculous. I've met nothing but great people in all classes at these events.



wvlongshot said:


> Bow novice should be a trophy class. Motivation to move up for the money class.


It essentially is. I have 2 top 10 finishes and one top 25 finish in novice and still barely hit $300. Doesn't even cover my hotel room, food, etc. for these trips. It's not about the money. It's about the competition, and experience.



As for any rules about limiting arrow, go for it. I shot 22's so it wouldn't have affected me anyway. I think eliminating hinge releases would be a big mistake. I'm getting my wife into target archery and she started with a hing release. Why give her bad habits from the beginning? 

Too many people here want to complain about other classes or what people are entering those classes. I bought a target bow in March of this year and switched to a back tension release about the same time. Before, I had only hunted with a bow. Does that make me a novice? Since I won out, does that mean I should have shot in Hunter or Open C instead? No, it just means I was good enough in that 30 yard max class.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

.i know most of these guys....and when it comes dow to it...they ard there to hslp someone ..carl an old geezer....they forget half the time where they are on the range.....and darin a nice guy...if not his wife will knock him upside the head....

I think your reading WAY TOO DEEP IN THE POSTS. Two


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