# Does anyone have one of these?



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I'm thinking of getting one of these to cut out my spinners my self. I believe I'll need to upgrade the router part but before I layout the money I was just wondering if anyone else has one of these?
It also looks like at 30" x 30" I could probably route out a bow riser with the larger model... What do you guys think? If you have another source for a home CNC router I would love to have some choices.

https://www.inventables.com/technologies/x-carve


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

too funny, i just put in a purchase request for one today. Some youtube videos on it, but that's all I know! I'll let ya know if my request goes through!


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## Maui Rhino (Mar 13, 2010)

www.neo7cnc.com has lots of info on DIY CNC machines.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Maui Rhino said:


> www.neo7cnc.com has lots of info on DIY CNC machines.


Ha that's where I found the X-Carve he did a review on the X-carves predecessor. 
He builds them from scratch and I like his stuff but I'm more interested in getting a full working version that I can use to play with after I'm comfortable with the technology I suspect I'll build one but for now I want an off the shelf solution.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Well I did it, I sprung for one. When it comes in I'll try and do some videos of it in action.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

b0w_bender said:


> Well I did it, I sprung for one. When it comes in I'll try and do some videos of it in action.


I think my request got approved as well! We will have to compare notes!
First thoughts, 
1. I think this is sort of the second version. They make a smaller earlier version that you can upgrade to the xcarve. So I'm thinking they got one under their belt so might have some kinks worked out.
2. Be interesting to see how easy it will be to get files into it from a 3d cad program like solid works. I think it does SVG so might be straightforward.

Looks like they just started shipping, and they have a big back log of orders to fill. Might be a bit of a wait to get one?


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Ya they said it was 3 to 5 weeks for shipping. 
I didn't spring for the cutting software I wanted to try their free web based version before I spent money on any software. 
I would also like to look at the open source community too. This is the one area I'm not all that versed in. I have a lot of software experience just not in the 3D modeling area.

I did a lot of looking around and they just really seemed to have their act together and the pricing was very competitive. I didn't find anything cheaper and I found a lot of machines that were smaller and more expensive. My only real concern is that it just won't be accurate enough to do what I want it to do.


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## srod (Oct 2, 2013)

Tag for the update when you get it in action


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## Fiferguy (Apr 16, 2009)

Is there a reason you don't want to 3D print them? Build up instead of tear down?


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Fiferguy said:


> Is there a reason you don't want to 3D print them? Build up instead of tear down?


I have a friend who has a 3D printer I should have him print one out and price it for me. Not sure what the material costs are for one so can't say for sure. I know the material for the plywood is around $1.65 give or take, so it would need to be cheaper than that.


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## Dlrocket89 (Feb 4, 2014)

b0w_bender said:


> I have a friend who has a 3D printer I should have him print one out and price it for me. Not sure what the material costs are for one so can't say for sure. I know the material for the plywood is around $1.65 give or take, so it would need to be cheaper than that.


we have a 3D printer at work. no way would it be less than that. 3D printed things are amazing in that they are fast, but they're very expensive. Prices have come down a lot over time, but no where near $1.65 I gotta think


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

That's kinda what I thought, I see 3D printing as a excellent solution for people to build their own parts. I would think they are invaluable for doing prototyping as well. This is the teir current niche and not really mass production manufacture for profit. But... as media prices drop and machine prices drop that certainly may change. I expect I'll end up with a 3D printer too, but one thing at a time.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Dlrocket89 said:


> we have a 3D printer at work. no way would it be less than that. 3D printed things are amazing in that they are fast, but they're very expensive. Prices have come down a lot over time, but no where near $1.65 I gotta think


I've been 3d printing for about 10 years. machine cost have come down on desktop models but the consumables have stayed the same. my cost on plastic is about $5.00 a cubic inch for a professional level machine.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I build one myself. Very nice machine to have it. I hope one day I will try to engrave my sight tape on some metal.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Outsider said:


> I build one myself. Very nice machine to have it. I hope one day I will try to engrave my sight tape on some metal.


Hey that's a great idea! even plastic would be better then the paper...


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## TRUE HUNT (Nov 8, 2006)

TAG for latter.


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## instinctboy (Dec 31, 2007)

If you have any questions as far as CAD/CAM goes I'd be happy to help out. About 90% of the frustrations that come with CNC machines is self inflicted, not the machine; not always but typically. You're opening yourself up to a very busy lifestyle if you let it mind you, you will find thousands of uses for this and so will your buddies.... Also, learn as much as you can about programming, reading programming, etc.... You will need it. Have fun with the machine and be innovative!


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

instinctboy said:


> If you have any questions as far as CAD/CAM goes I'd be happy to help out. About 90% of the frustrations that come with CNC machines is self inflicted, not the machine; not always but typically. You're opening yourself up to a very busy lifestyle if you let it mind you, you will find thousands of uses for this and so will your buddies.... Also, learn as much as you can about programming, reading programming, etc.... You will need it. Have fun with the machine and be innovative!


I'm sure I will shoot my self in the foot repeatedly especially for the first couple of months. 
Thanks for the offer of help, that too may have been a mistake on your part. :icon_1_lol:

Are you using the Mach3 or 4 software or do you use some other software?
:wav:


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## instinctboy (Dec 31, 2007)

I use Mach3 and SheetCam for the tables, both are very hard to beat, especially for the price.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

OK here is an update... 
The X-Carve machine came in and 2 of my good friends came over and helped me put it together. Well except for the missing parts which were shipped later. I finally got it completed. I only crossed a couple of wires in the process. If anyone else gets one of these follow the instructions closely there is definitely a proper order. I had to tear it apart several times to get it completely put together correctly. I used the free inventables software called Easel to do my first project. "Bow_Bender" wouldn't fit on my piece of scrap PVC plastic so I shortened it a bit. I also managed to break off one of the sample bits when the Z axis stopped working half way through because the stepper motor pulley loosened up. Aw well the 2nd time was the charm. (yes I know it is crooked on there but I was really only interested in knowing if the machine was working) so I'll take it. I now have to get the spinner drawings imported and tested to see how long it will take to cut them. My first impression is that this is *TOTALLY COOOOOL!*

Oh Ya, I also video taped it (including the bit breaking) so I will likely be posting that to youtube possibly tomorrow.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

wow, looks like it did some nice clean cutting. Is that in MDF?
I have not gotten around to ordering mine yet.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

It's actually Sintra a PVC board. Kydex same thing.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Here is the Youtube video for those interested in seeing it in action


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## CarbonWarrior (Apr 12, 2014)

Way cool... I'd think Cams would be a possibility as well... I've seen the lab at G5/Prime... and, they cut their experimental cam shapes and designs out of a Glow in the dark plastic material. Kinda cool...


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## instinctboy (Dec 31, 2007)

Looks like fun, welcome to the CNC community.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

I will finally be ordering mine tomorrow! Then it says 3-4 weeks for delivery! I'm EXCITED!


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I haven't done a darned thing with it since. I really need to get wound back up on it but with hunting season coming up I've been spending all my time getting prepared for Elk camp.

Redruff lets collaborate let me know what software you end up using with yours and why. I've been messing with Fusion360 and


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

OK I'm cutting my first spinner today. All I had was a 1/8 router but so it is taking forever. So far 2.5 hours and I'm guessing it is half done. I think I need a bigger bit. 
I ordered some 3/16 and some 1/4" that should allow me to cut one in under 4 hours. I need to mess with the design a bit more see if I can trim some more time off of it too. worse case scenario I may need to upgrade the unit to the full fledged DeWault router motor. Then I can cut deeper and run faster. I'll post up a picture if it doesn't burn up between now and when it finishes.


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## hoyt em all (Feb 20, 2005)

b0w_bender said:


> OK I'm cutting my first spinner today. All I had was a 1/8 router but so it is taking forever. So far 2.5 hours and I'm guessing it is half done. I think I need a bigger bit.
> I ordered some 3/16 and some 1/4" that should allow me to cut one in under 4 hours. I need to mess with the design a bit more see if I can trim some more time off of it too. worse case scenario I may need to upgrade the unit to the full fledged DeWault router motor. Then I can cut deeper and run faster. I'll post up a picture if it doesn't burn up between now and when it finishes.


almost 4 hrs , ouch


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## Don Schultz (Jul 5, 2002)

http://carlsondesign.com/

This company makes large format systems. They've been around over 20 years.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

b0w_bender said:


> OK I'm cutting my first spinner today. All I had was a 1/8 router but so it is taking forever. So far 2.5 hours and I'm guessing it is half done. I think I need a bigger bit.
> I ordered some 3/16 and some 1/4" that should allow me to cut one in under 4 hours. I need to mess with the design a bit more see if I can trim some more time off of it too. worse case scenario I may need to upgrade the unit to the full fledged DeWault router motor. Then I can cut deeper and run faster. I'll post up a picture if it doesn't burn up between now and when it finishes.


i'm finally ordering mine on monday. going with the Dewalt. anything else? is the toolkit useless?


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## rustycase (Oct 27, 2015)

tag

Great !
I will enjoy your reports as you make progress.
...You have done very good for your first effort with a new machine!
Best
rc


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

redruff said:


> i'm finally ordering mine on monday. going with the Dewalt. anything else? is the toolkit useless?


The toolkit is all basic tools except that they are metric. A couple of end wrenches, allen wrenches and a star wrench. All of which are metric but other than that they are the type of tool any self respecting DIY geek would already have.

OK went to home Depot and picked up a Dremmel 1/4" hardened steel router bit. I took the machine about 2.5 hours to cut the piece but I needed to stop it right before it was finished because hardened steel just doesn't cut it. (so to speak) The bit had become so dull that it was basically starting to smoke from the friction. So looks like I'm going to need to buy the upgrade so I can use the DeWault trim router. With that I can by a standard carbide router bit as well as cut deeper portions at a time. I'm also going to look at using the outline tool method to cut out the the areas that go all the way through rather than try and remove all that material. If I do all that I should be able to get the cut time down to less than an hour and get significantly longer bit life.


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## AzizaVFR (Jan 28, 2014)

If you have a very high RPM spindle, and cutting wood, plastic, even some aluminum, go with a single flute carbide bit. I use two different sizes with my Jet 3HP milling machine, a 0.1875" and 0.250" cutter. It makes a very clean cut and slings the chips very well. Here are some links for information concerning these cutters and how to use them.

http://www.datron.com/tools/single-flute-end-mill.php
http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2012/12/23/why-use-a-single-flute-end-mill/


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## cjjeepman (Oct 28, 2011)

wonder if corel draw will work on this ,It works the same as my vinyl plotter X and Y .....It was 1800.00 program and if will work ,I might have to get one .


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

cjjeepman said:


> wonder if corel draw will work on this ,It works the same as my vinyl plotter X and Y .....It was 1800.00 program and if will work ,I might have to get one .


You can go to Inventables and create an account and use the Easel software without the machine. In other words, you can play with bringing in Corel drawings into the software. Easel can import SVG so export out of Corel as SVG. I used Illustrator and it didn't like a couple of my first attempts, but the software gave me tips and I was able to get an SVG from Illustrator into Easel pretty easily.

FYI, I ordered mine on Monday, everything shipped today BUT the Dewalt head..it is on backorder! Oh well, probably take that long to get it together.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I have just spent the last 2 months (on and off) trying to get some parts cut out using the "quiet spindle" that is the default option with the machine. I can now say without any question if you buy one of these please, please do not waste your time with the quiet spindle. By pass all that headache and upgrade to the DeWalt trim router. There is no comparison one is a toy and the other is a tool. I'm hopeful I'll finely be able to cut out some of the new designed NWSpinner for the Beiter. I modified it so it can also be slightly modified to work with the Cartel bobbin too. I hoping by the end of next week we'll have some stock FINALLY!


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

I got mine together last Wednesday and played a little. I just did some text on a 1X6. I bought the Dewalt 611 right off the bat and the Acme rod.
For a first attempt, I was pleased. 
BUT one of the eccentric nuts that are used to line up the moving wheels fell off. I knew these were a problem, as there is a lot of discussion online about them.
I just need to go back and blue loctite them all after a good adjustment.
I also did the heat shrink tip on the belts. They seemed to stay put and tight. 

Next I had a piece of diamond plate laying around, so I just did an etching on the backside. Had the wrong bit, just wanted to see what it would do.
Lots of chatter, but not the machines fault. It did a nice job. I'm pretty pleased with this so far. 

If you are considering one do as Bender says...go with the Dewalt router.
Do some research, some people have poured their hearts out over these machines and they offer some good building/setup tricks. Learn from their mistakes!
Rig some sort of dust collecting system, the Dewalt really slings the chips/dust!
Keep the belts spotless! Don't let anything build up on the rails!
Adjust the machine properly and use blue Loctite on the eccentric nuts.

I think with a little learning curve you can get good results, but don't expect Haas type output!


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I was able to finally get some Beiters NWSpinners cut out. I have adjusted the design slightly so a Cartel jig will fit in the Beiter model but you would need to do some minor modifications in order to hold the Cartel in the center. I'm thinking a couple of 1/4-20 bolts placed in the inside corners of the cartel bobbin might be the ticket. I'll post a picture once I've perfected that modification.

Here is a picture of one that was cut out with the X-carve and a short video of the beginning of cutting one of these guys out.


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## randallss7 (Nov 9, 2007)

Added to want list, thanks!


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Here is the Cartel Modification I mentioned above
Let me know what you think?

I added 2 socket head machine screws into the unit they hold the Cartel jig tight against the top and keep it from shifting left to right.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Been playing with the Xcarve. I stiffened the x gantry. Made a world of difference!! So I wanted to try it on something tougher than wood. I needed a heat sink for an LED PCB so I had a chunk of 3/8 aluminum laying around. Took awhile but it did a really nice job on it!


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Hey Redruff, OK How did you stiffen the gantry?
I added a piece of 3/16" aluminum bar stock about 32" long to the bottom. It spans both pieces of maker slide and bolting to the extrusion nuts that snap into the extrusion. It ties on slide to the other minimizing twist and flex. I've seen some folks that are just adding bolts in between the to maker slides that sort of tie the two together.

To cut the aluminum, what speeds were you cutting at and what spindle speeds.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Sorry to hijack your thread but I have two similar machines if anyone is interested.
View attachment 3576193
View attachment 3576201


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Those look to be a lot higher end and studier than the Xcarve! Guessing those were not $1500.

And they have a terrible flaw..they cut Chicago BlackHawk logos!


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

b0w_bender said:


> Hey Redruff, OK How did you stiffen the gantry?
> I added a piece of 3/16" aluminum bar stock about 32" long to the bottom. It spans both pieces of maker slide and bolting to the extrusion nuts that snap into the extrusion. It ties on slide to the other minimizing twist and flex. I've seen some folks that are just adding bolts in between the to maker slides that sort of tie the two together.
> 
> To cut the aluminum, what speeds were you cutting at and what spindle speeds.


I had a piece of 9 gauge steel that was about 30" long. I jammed it right between the two maker slides on the X gantry. You could see it take a little twist out as I forced it down between the two. It was a very tight fit so I wont run any bolts through it. 

I am going to run 1x4s along the y gantry and run bolts thru to stiffen it that way. It will also act as a dust shield.

I ended up running 12in/min and a plunge depth of .006. Spindle speed was set to 5 and used a 1/4 inch two flute upcut spiral square end mill. I sprayed with a water based cutting fluid a lot.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Outsider said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread but I have two similar machines if anyone is interested.


Not at all, those are cool looking machines, looks like the spindle is water cooled?

I saw some that were similar that were around $3500.00 is that about right? 
Did you have to assemble them or did they come ready to cut or did you build them from scratch?


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

The one on the right I builded from scratch. The one on the left I ordered the frame only and then add all electronics and mechanical components. 

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

I did this mod this week. Worth the $20 and took about 30 seconds!
https://discuss.inventables.com/t/dewalt-611-non-destruct-automatic-spindle-control/11850


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

redruff said:


> I did this mod this week. Worth the $20 and took about 30 seconds!
> https://discuss.inventables.com/t/dewalt-611-non-destruct-automatic-spindle-control/11850


Oh dude that is sweet, have you also connected your shop vac to it too? 
You could have the vacuum come on at the same time as the spindle, what an awesome idea! 

Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing that.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Have not connected my Vac to it yet. I have a 7amp vac and that relay is only rated at 10amps. Gotta look up how much the Dewalt 611 draws.
I did some 1/8 oak plywood yesterday with a 1/64 bit. You know those cheap sets you can get at Harbor freight.

It did great on some small detail, but when it get to a long arc it snapped. I was actually surprised it held up as long as it did.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

redruff said:


> Have not connected my Vac to it yet. I have a 7amp vac and that relay is only rated at 10amps. Gotta look up how much the Dewalt 611 draws.
> I did some 1/8 oak plywood yesterday with a 1/64 bit. You know those cheap sets you can get at Harbor freight.
> 
> It did great on some small detail, but when it get to a long arc it snapped. I was actually surprised it held up as long as it did.


I ordered one of the relays, I'll take a look at it when it comes in and see if the Vac will work with it. I've been limiting my bit size to 1/8" I can't even imagine a 1/64th that's practically a dental tool.


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## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

FWIW, I had a ShapeOko 2 — got it for free in exchange for writing the assembly instructions: http://docs.shapeoko.com/ (sold it in anticipation of getting an SO3)

You may find the ShapeOko wiki of interest: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Still have my SO1, need to get it running again — probably w'/ a drag knife.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

BowBender, just an FYI, I haver been running a little shop vac pulling 6.2Amps on that relay box with no problems.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Cool thanks I bought mine but for some reason it doesn't work. I haven't taken the time to figure out why. It works when I run the setup I can click the start spindle button during setup and it starts the spindle but when I use the cut dialog box and press "start spindle" it simple does nothing? I'm sure it is something stupid that I'm doing. Iwas going to go read through the thread you linked to and see if I can find anything that might indicate what I did wrong.


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