# Wacked out setup's and tiller turning?



## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

Let me start by stating in been shooting target archery for a long time. 
Been my own bow mechanic as well as for a select few.
Pride was always taken when I got a set up to work properly, meaning proper spine, center shot draw etc.
I have a shooting buddy that is on the verge of breaking a 600 Fita, and he's been there for a while, drilling 597+ every time. 
So yesterday after leagues,(NFAA,5 spot), I shot a 300 w/46 spots and he was @ his usual 300 w/57 spots, we got to BS'ing and I ended up shooting his bow, a Mathews Conquest Apex 7
Well the 1st thing I noticed was its a FREAKING BOAT anchor, I mean down rite heavy, but that was nothing compared to seeing his arrow(XCutter) almost off the shelf to the left side? Not only that but he had his tiller setting wacked, top was bottomed and the bottom looked to be 4-5 turns out?I was like Holy crap, who works on your bow? He says I do, I'm like Ok? Mentioned about fixing that, he says Naa I just set it up and shoot it! 
Anyway, I'm positive this guy could be a consistent 60 spot 600 shooter if I could get him to decide that thing is not set up correctly! Has anyone else seen this kind of thing and has it worked for said archer? Pro or otherwise? Is this a common thing for using X cutters or Fat boy shafts? or maybe something common for a Apex7?
My thought was the Idler wheel leaning? Ive expiermented with tiller tuening in the past, but never more then 1/2-1 1/2 turns 1 way or the other, mostly for fine tuening of draw and or nock height, what advantage could be gained from that much tiller?
Anyway Just thought Id ask, Thanks in advance for any reply's!


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

sounds like this guy is kicking your butt every week .lolo apex 7 a boat anchor, guess you never shot a apex 8.lolo it just goes to show you its not the bow its the INDIAN.and just because the bow maker says [here is the specks] does not mean that this is where it must be.......i have seen this many times before................. a person... wins a big title someone wants to see the set up, and pow..... nothing is even close to specks,..... most are unreal set ups... . but the shooter keeps drilling the X's time and time again.


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## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

Ya Ok thanks for the useful reply, next time try and stick to the questions Ok
I shoot an old 1995 Hoyt Superstar, let me tell yyou those were never known for how light weight they are, so yes that damn Apex7 is friggin heavy!
If you only come to bash the OP dont even bother posting, just save us all the pain of reading your worthless reply.
As a Bow mechanic for so many years Ive never seen a bow that far off center shot, and he's been complaining about breaking scope rod's, huh I wonder why? thing must be out there 3" from the sight!
I was wanting some techinical info on the advantages of tiller tuening and maybe there others with this same tuening issue
But insted I get a reply from some self proclaimed jackwaggon telling me what I already know!


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Wow

You really ripped into one of the more respected, helpful and knowledgeable frequent poster on the Coaches Corner forum.

I know the answer to what you are asking and so does Mike and it's pretty interesting. But there is no way that I'll post it for you. I didn't read any bashing into Mike's post. 

Please take your attitude elsewhere.

Thank you,
Allen


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

carlielos said:


> Ya Ok thanks for the useful reply, next time try and stick to the questions Ok
> I shoot an old 1995 Hoyt Superstar, let me tell yyou those were never known for how light weight they are, so yes that damn Apex7 is friggin heavy!
> If you only come to bash the OP dont even bother posting, just save us all the pain of reading your worthless reply.
> As a Bow mechanic for so many years Ive never seen a bow that far off center shot, and he's been complaining about breaking scope rod's, huh I wonder why? thing must be out there 3" from the sight!
> ...


well lets see, here... you called the apex a boat anchor[bashing] your first q was..has any one else seen this... i answered..2 q common thing for fat boys/ if you were a good bow tec you should know this... 3 q common thing for apex? once again a bow tec, a good one will know this too.q#4 idler wheel lean could be checked in 5 sec, a good tec would know this too...and advantages of tiller tune...also, as far as self proclaimed.. i coach archery for a living....what do you do/ jack of all trades????your worthless reply is here enjoy it.........


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## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

Maybe another time you would consider answering the questions and not try to belittle the OP!
But your 2nd post again all you can do is belittle the OP, how is that helping? 
If i had expierence with the Apex or Fat boys/X cutters I wouldent of asked the question ya think?
If your only interested in bashing the OP then why bother posting in the 1st place, I asked a couple reasonable questions, but apparently your an Apex lover/shooter and took offence when you know its truth, so whatever buddy go ahead and be your own master and i will do the same!


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

Makes me think of a story I heard about Terry Ragsdale at Vegas years ago. Not sure who told it. Anyway, this guy was standing behind Terry and could see both ends of his arrow as he shot down range. After Terry had won he asked him if he knew that his arrow flight was horrid. Terry said that all he ever paid attention to was the point of the arrow striking the X. Something that occurred that day in a very consistant manner.

All things are relative in archery. For every action you will get and equal or opposite reaction. Perfect bow tuning is relative to the tune of the man behind the bow.


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## Flinger69 (Feb 8, 2012)

So repeatability is everything? arrow flight not so important?
What about tiller, Im also curious what effect that may have?

Carl


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