# Form Review



## Kjokve (Nov 14, 2020)

Hi!

This is gonna be terrifying but I could use some tips to improve my form and whatever else someone picks up on

I have been shooting a compound for about 6 months, been shooting Olympic recurve for about 6 months prior to making the swap.
The bow I`m shooting is a PSE Supra Focus SE 37, DL 27 1\2" and 54# draw weight.

We don't have a dedicated compound coach at our club, the coaches we have are focused on Recurve, they do try their best tho, but for most of the compound-related stuff, we have to figure it out by ourselves. Video of me drawing and releasing The shot from the video was an X btw

Thanks in advance for any feedback I receive


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

New photos with short sleeve shirt. Long sleeve sweat shirt hides all your joint positions. Impossible to do any form analysis with a long sleeve sweat shirt.

Need photos more like this.



1) too much weight on right ankle. Means upper body is leaning backwards.
2) bow shoulder is higher than release side shoulder, cuz you are leaning backwards
3) neck not vertical, so tension in the neck muscles, tension/out of balance upper trapezius muscles
4) head/neck is rotated too far clockwise, not pointing head/nose in the direction of the arrow...cuz you are forcing nose to touch string on a draw length that is too long.
5) hips are rotated too much open stance..I would get hips more square to the shooting line.

Yes, I kinow, NTS says to have open hips and twist in the core so collar bones are more parallel to the arrow.
When you twist hips more open, and then try to corkscrew the collar bones to parallel, you end up leaning backwards, cuz the draw on a compound bow is fixed.

So, get hips more square to the yellow painted shooting line, and you will increase the distance between your hands, meaning while bow draw size does not change, your hands will be farther apart, with square hips
and you will fit the bow draw size better, meaning you will automatically lean backwards LESS.

With square hips to shooting line,
then, you can rotate head/nose MORE in line with the arrow (anti-clockwise rotation of head/neck nose).


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Kjokve said:


> Hi!
> 
> This is gonna be terrifying but I could use some tips to improve my form and whatever else someone picks up on
> 
> ...


Hips and ankles too much open stance,
so this is causing your head/neck to tilt backwards. Chin is too high. DROP chin down. Cover peep with masking tape and redo photos, with short sleeve shirt.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Would prefer release hand wrist rotated so knuckles are 45 degrees.
Watch this Dudley video about how to position release hand, with a handle release.






Key takeaways from the Dudley video.
V shaped index and middle finger.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Head/neck is tilted backwards 5 degrees. Drop chin, and cover up the peep, cuz the peep is in the wrong place (too low).


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

The V shape formed by the middle and index finger (think eagle talons) is split ABOVE and BELOW the jawbone.
If release hand is DEAD vertical, like in your photo, the index finger cannot FIND the edge of the jawbone. Rotate knuckles to 45 degrees, and will be EASIER for a newbie like you, to have DEAD consistent height of release hand.



When your chin is LOWER, to get head to LEVEL,
then, the height of jawbone locks in the height of the release hand INDEX finger, the INDEX finger rides UNDER the jawbone, and this means, when you learn the FEEL for height of chin, to keep head LEVEL, to keep head parallel to a LEVEL arrow, your high-low misses will shrink considerably.

YES, this means if your head is tilted backwards, chin TOO HIGH on the 18 meter target, you will miss HIGH.
YES, this means if your head is tilted forwards, chin TOO LOW on the 18 meter target, you will miss LOW.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Bow side shoulder is collapsed. Means not enough expansion, means upper third of spine (backbone) is curved laterally backwards (away from target) and the bow side collar bone is angled UP...shoulders not level.
Excess tension in both sides upper trapezius, so you are doing a shoulder shrug, both sides. DROP the shoulders,
relax the neck, drop the draw weight, and draw like THIS.















Dead level draw motion.
Head/ and upper body are motionless, no rocking backwards.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Bow side wrist rotation is wrong. Bow hand knuckles are much too vertical.
The wrist has a bony protrusion (hard points that stick out on the left and right), and these bony protrusions
need to be near horizontal, and when the wrist is horizontal, then, the knuckles on the bow hand
will be more like this.










and like this.





45 degrees rotation on the bow hand knuckles will move most of the thumb muscle onto the grip,
so LESS of the thumb muscle oozes past the right vertical edge of the grip. You have 99% of the thumb muscle
past the right vertical edge of the grip, CLASSIC NEWBIE holding a compound bow like a broomstick.

So, with VERTICAL knuckles on the compound bow, your left-right misses will be LARGER than your true accuracy potential.

See how jewalker's forearm bones are DEAD parallel to the arrow?
You have excessive bow arm elbow bend (another classic NEWBIE mistake)
so with the BEND in the elbow, the forearm bones do not line up with the upper arm bone, so your bow arm becomes a spring, and you don't hold as steady as your TRUE accuracy potential.

NTS calls it BARREL of the GUN, so for a recurve, you would not bend your bow arm elbow this much.
YES, I can see the angle of your forearm is out of parallel even with a loose bulky sweatshirt.

So, try BARREL of the GUN (NTS style) for your compound bow arm.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Kjokve said:


> Hi!
> 
> The shot from the video was an X btw
> 
> ...


ONE x ring is a lucky shot. Try my stress test, which is ONE fletched arrow in your quiver.
So, with only 1 arrow in your quvier, that means I gotta put down my bow, walk to the target,
pull out the arrow, and return to the shooting line, and then fire that ONE arrow all over again?

Yup.

So, how many shots in a row? 
Answer 30 shots.

Here is what my absolute BEST student did, when shooting ONE arrow at 18 meters. He stopped at 21 arrows in a row, in the SAME hole.



So, the whole point is to find the full draw posture, the bow fit, the bow tuning that lets you put the SAME arrow in the SAME hole, at 18 meters, for at LEAST 21 shots in a row.

When you can do this...put the same arrow MANY MANY times in the SAME hole, at 18 meters,
THEN, and ONLY THEN have you found the bow tuning that works for YOU,
THEN, and ONLY THEN, have you found the full draw posture that works for YOU.

Until you reach this point, you have MUCh work, much experimentation to do, to find the small changes
that will continually increase your accuracy (smaller and smaller groups), and precision (closer to putting each shot in the same hole).


----------



## Kjokve (Nov 14, 2020)

nuts&bolts said:


> ONE x ring is a lucky shot. Try my stress test, which is ONE fletched arrow in your quiver.
> So, with only 1 arrow in your quvier, that means I gotta put down my bow, walk to the target,
> pull out the arrow, and return to the shooting line, and then fire that ONE arrow all over again?
> 
> ...



Thanks for some awesome tips here! 

Its damn cold here in Norway and no heat in our training facility, but will take the sweatshirt off next time I take some pictures

Just a few questions.


Should I just keep the DL as it is now or shorten it by half an inc?
You mentioned covering the peep, you mean I should cover the peep and just practice this and ignore the peep so I don't force myself looking through it since it might be in the wrong place?

I will drop the poundage a bit, don't really need to shoot 55# indoor at 18m anyway. Will go through and try to implement the things you pointed out over the next few weeks and i will update this post with some new pictures not wearing a huge hoodie;D

and thanks again for some great advice, really appriciated


----------



## Hunter5400 (Jun 15, 2020)

Kjokve said:


> Thanks for some awesome tips here!
> 
> Its damn cold here in Norway and no heat in our training facility, but will take the sweatshirt off next time I take some pictures
> 
> ...


Until seeing position of upper body in comparison to your hips you cannot tell if you are leaning back/forwards which would put your head further past the string and create imbalance and inconsistency. It looks like your head is too high thats why you should draw the bow with level head without looking through peep so you know how to move it (if you should.) Trust nuts and bolts... he knows what he is doing.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Kjokve said:


> Thanks for some awesome tips here!
> 
> Its damn cold here in Norway and no heat in our training facility, but will take the sweatshirt off next time I take some pictures
> 
> ...


Keep draw length same for next photo, with no long sleeve. Dead level arrow, feet/ankles less open stance, to see what happens. Try to drop both shoulders down, as relaxed upper trapezius muscles as you can. Try the Dudley level draw motion, to see if that helps. Let's see how much we can adjust full draw posture fit, with chin lower. Need to see landmarks for your joints, with a short sleeve shirt.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Kjokve said:


> Thanks for some awesome tips here!
> 
> Its damn cold here in Norway and no heat in our training facility, but will take the sweatshirt off next time I take some pictures
> 
> ...


After we get a better form photo, and see how your bow REALLY fits your body,
then, we tweak things for a better full draw posture. When we adjust the bow draw size to fit your body better,
when we get a more solid full draw posture photo, then, we TEST the new full draw posture,
with a shooting test, to get results for precision (repeatability for putting the same arrow in the same hole)...at a very close, relaxed distance like just 2 meters.


----------

