# Parallel limb bows??



## WSmitty01 (Feb 1, 2006)

I propably wouldn't hane a problem, but I have about a 25.5" draw length! :wink:


----------



## A.Heemskerk (May 20, 2007)

Wel,

I have a Mathews Swithsback LD ( 2007),
no problem, great bow
my drawlenght is 29" 

The bow is still, smooth, and no handshock


----------



## Karoojager (Dec 20, 2005)

Hi Harperman,

Two years ago I had a APA Anaconda with 29" draw lenght.
The accuracy and speed was great.
IMO no problem to shoot a parallel limb bow with fingers.


----------



## Limey (May 6, 2005)

Parallel bows shoot just as bad or good in my hands as traditional limb angle bows.

For finger shooting you can get away with shorter ATA lengths if the bow has parallel limbs as it the string angle that is more important than the bow length.:darkbeer:


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Katera XL (36" AtoA) with fingers? I have been wanting to shoot one with fingers but I don't know if it is too short even if it is a parallel limb bow. I currently Shoot a UltraElite XT3000 28.5 draw C2 (41 AtoA) but started out with the same bow with XT2000 Limbs setup (37.5 AtoA). I can say the longer coventional design shoots the best for me. Are you guys posting good scores with the parallel design?


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

DDshooter...I just got the bow set up saturday, and it's not set up or tuned perfectly yet..I will say that despite just eye-balling the rest, nock point, and what-not, I am shooting this bow as good, or better than I was the UltraTec, or My Martin Scepter 3, and I bought it friday...I'll shoot it as is for a few days, and let the strings settle in, and then get the cam timing really dialed in, and the arrows paper tuned, I think that I might try the "French Tuning" thing...As for scores, this will be My 3-D bow, and hunting bow, and I'm confident that I will shoot it as well as I did my UltraTec, or X-Force..More later...Take Care...Harperman


----------



## Rmart (Nov 28, 2007)

The Bowtech Constitution has a 42" ATA and somewhat of a parallel limb design. Seems to be the best of both worlds. 

A word of warning... If you are not used to shooting off of a FIRM back wall, or shoot out of the valley on your current bow, the Connie is going to be a rude awakening for you. It's been two months and I am still having a he!! of a time getting used to the SHORT valley on this bow.


----------



## Limey (May 6, 2005)

Rmart said:


> The Bowtech Constitution has a 42" ATA and somewhat of a parallel limb design. Seems to be the best of both worlds.
> 
> A word of warning... If you are not used to shooting off of a FIRM back wall, or shoot out of the valley on your current bow, the Connie is going to be a rude awakening for you. It's been two months and I am still having a he!! of a time getting used to the SHORT valley on this bow.


I love my Connie but shooting fingers with a draw stop can take some getting used to.

Although I shoot my Connie with a release I used to shot a Pro 40 with fingers and that had nil valley and a draw stop.:darkbeer:


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Rmart...I've been told the the Bowtech Constitution is a great finger bow as well...I'd love to shoot one, but if I went walking into the bowshop with a BowTech, I'd be tarred and feathered, L.O.L...The owner there treats Me like Family, hates BowTech bows, and sells Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE bows along with Bear and Browning..L.O.L...it would be kinda crazy for a while...L.O.L...Harperman


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

For you that have a Consititution: When I shot a Bowtech Old Glory next to the Hoyt and Mathews it felt like the draw was interrupted with no valley. Is this the same draw cycle with the Consititution? Or was it not tuned properly? How is the Consititution Speed?


----------



## Rmart (Nov 28, 2007)

That's pretty much how it is, at least for me, especially if you adjust the draw stops for a < 80% let off (I'm at about 70 -75% mostly because at 65% I couldn't get it to feel right and strangely, I seemed to shoot better at the higher let-off). I do have a very small valley, but not much of one. I went from a PSE Mach Flight 4R with a HUGE valley and NO wall to the Connie. Pulling hard into the wall just doesn't seem to feel right and it seems like if the pressure I put against the valley is not consistent, then I see it in my shot placement.

Overall I have picked up about 10 pts with this bow and the speed and tunability are great. I'm getting roughly 286 fps with a 66 lb draw weight, 30" DL, and Beeman 9.3 arrows with 100gr tips.


----------



## Rmart (Nov 28, 2007)

Ocassionally when I draw the Connie, as it lets off, I hit the wall/drawstop and bounce forward, letting the arrow down unexpectedly. Once at a shoot (one that I was doing very well in) I did this, but the string was ripped out of my fingers and the arrow went flying well over the target (release shooter style). That was disturbing as I had never before had an unintended arrow launch. The bow also seems to be more sensitive to form than I am used to.


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Sounds like I need to go try the Consititution alone side the Katera and Drenalin LD like Harperman has done. Boy only three years has gone by and I am looking at new bows, again! I can live with getting a extra 10 pts and more speed/no shock.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Rmart said:


> Ocassionally when I draw the Connie, as it lets off, I hit the wall/drawstop and bounce forward, letting the arrow down unexpectedly. Once at a shoot (one that I was doing very well in) I did this, but the string was ripped out of my fingers and the arrow went flying well over the target (release shooter style). That was disturbing as I had never before had an unintended arrow launch. The bow also seems to be more sensitive to form than I am used to.


.....RMart...I had that same thing happen to me a couple times, when shooting a hard cam bow that had high let-off, and rolled over hard into a short valley...Not so much when shooting relaxed, but when at a shoot, and was a bit concentrated on the target....I find that a hard roll-over on a cam, that lets off a high percentage seems to make My fingers relax as the cams roll over...I set the draw stop peg on this Katera XL to 65%, and it rolls over very nice, and keeps plenty of tension on My fingers....Using a new Easton digital hand drawn bow scale, I'm pulling 60.5 #, and holding 18.5# at full draw...this factors out a little bit less than 70% let-off.....My UltraTec was 61#, and I was holding approx. 11#...And, if the bow is timed, the new Z3 cams seem to pull and roll over smoother than the old Cam 1/2's do...Everyone likes/needs a little different "Feel"...shoot as many bows as You can, and buy what You shoot the best...I was really hoping for a 36" or 37" PSE X-Force for 2008, but that didnt happen...L.O.L....Take Care....Harperman


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Harperman said:


> .....I was really hoping for a 36" or 37" PSE X-Force for 2008, but that didnt happen...L.O.L....Take Care....Harperman


Why is that?


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

DDSHOOTER said:


> Why is that?


...Becuase the 33" X-Force is a very shootable bow, and a 36" to 37" XForce with a 7" brace would be awesome, to Me, anyway...Take Care...Harperman


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

I agree! But, I think the current design can not be lenghten AtoA, limb wise, without loosing alot of speed. May be because the riser does not have the limb pockets at the standard 45 degree angle for a longer parallel design/brace height? Pockets face forward, very short curved limbs and large cams make it a parallel bow, compared to the other parallel bows, right?


----------



## ultamatt (Mar 18, 2008)

any time you show up your local Kia or Hyundai dealer whith your Ferrari or Jaguar you will get the same response lol . let them be jealous and drive the best anyway.


----------



## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

Check my sig.

Newer bows are having cams of larger diameter in the past, so consider that fact when comparing ATA of bows, and how that translates into string angle.

my 30" draw length and I have no problems with pinch whatsoever on any of the Hoyt XL parallels. Love my new Katera.

I do take the draw stop pegs off for a softer wall. On my Trykon I have it intentionally out of time slightly for a better valley on the 80% cams, and it tunes up perfectly. I tried the 65% cams but didn't like them as well as a slightly off 80%. My Vectix and Katera XL's I don't have any problems with the draw cycle other than removing the pegs. I like the Katera over the Vectrix because of the additional +/- 1/2" of brace height (which is equal to the Vectrix) is slightly, noticeably more forgiving. Katera has the smoothest draw with the Z3 i believe.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Archerm3...I always liked the Trykon XL's, but the draw cycle on the Zephyr cams is like a turd in the punchbowl...The Vectrix XL is a great bow, but the Katera XL is pretty much everything that I like in a bow..The Z3 cams are the smoothest drawing "Speed" cams that I've ever shot, and the wall is very firm, the bow is plenty quiet even with light arrows, and it is a very forgiving bow as well...I loved My UltraTec, but I honestly think that this Katera XL is smoother, and more forgiving than the UltraTec is...A hair faster too..But, I had the UltraTec a bit off specs, so it was a bit faster than Hoyt specs rated it...Another GREAT thing about this Katera XL is that it hold well, and it doesnt take much stabilizer to get it to hold well, and react after the shot the way I want a bow react...I ordered a Vantage X7, and I also shot the new 737 several times, and didnt even consider the Katera XL...The Vantage X7 didnt "WOW!" Me, so I tried the Katera XL out...I eyeballed the arrow rest, and nock point, put My sight on it, and without tuning, or a peep, I was shooting good groups within 6 arrows...The only odd thing about the Katera's, and Vectrix bows is that the draw length seems to run short on them...My Katera XL is a 29" draw length, and it is just a bit too long,(I'm gonna put a few twists in the string to get it just right) but I've never shot any bow at 29" draw length before...My buddy bought a Vectrix last summer, it is a 28" draw, and I shoot it with alot of bend in My bow arm, and am kinda scrunched-up shooting it...???...Has Hoyt shortened the draw specs, in anticipation of folks using tied on string loops to shoot with releases, maybe??..Every newer Hoyt bow that I've drawn and shot this year seemed to be drawing short...I'm 67 1/2" tall, and My wingspan is 68"??...Take care...Harperman


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Well said Archerm3! So you can have a kia and Ferrari at the same time, and everyone is happy LOL... I have alway had different bows setup for different types of shooting. 

Harperman, You didn't mention what cams were on you Ultratec. I think you were talking about Cam.5 and not Spirls or C2 right? I like you really didn't like the cam.5 feel. Thats why I put a set of C2 cam.5 on my Ultraelite (3d) and Ultratec (hunt) bows. It would be great if a parallel limb bow could be the bow that fits all my archery needs but I think Archerm3 is right and have one for each purpose.... 

Foot note: I always measure my DL (with piece of sting with two knots) to the back of the grip, period. This way its the same for all bow. 26.75" to the grip = 28.5" approx hoyt drawlength. This way I can check my DL anytime. Also a note, if top cam is late (timing is off) it will give you a little extra draw lenght/spungy valley. The Buss cable likes to stretch. Extra DL make it harder to hold the pin still, to me anyways. My next set of calbes will be 24 strand to combat this problem.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

DDShooter...yep, I had regular Cam 1/2's on the UltraTec..I had 80% letoff mods, then switched them out for 65% mods..That helped...I also had the 26.5" to 29.5" cams on there, #5's , I think??..It might have been better to have the next size down cams, that maxed at 28"?...The new Cam 1/2 Plus cams are said to be smoother, but I dont feel it...The C2 cams are really nice, as are the Vector's, but I'm really impressed with these new Z3 cams...The draw a little smoother than the Spirals, and have a better valley, but still shoot as fast, or faster than Spirals...I set the cam timing, and moved the draw stop peg to the 65% let-off, and the back wall is very solid...Over-all, very nice... I'd love to try a set C-2's, or Vectors on a Trykon XL, just to see how it would shoot...The Trykon XL is a very heavy bow, and holds like a rock for Me...Take Care...Harperman


----------



## hstubblefield (Feb 16, 2008)

man i would shoot some i like stuff like a katera XLs or a pro-ultra elite,vantage 
X7-X8 they all shoot good.


Hoyt pro elite,Hoyt powertec,costom strings by Naten Brooks,copper Jhon sights,vibercheck stabs.


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Harperman said:


> DDShooter...yep, I had regular Cam 1/2's on the UltraTec..I had 80% letoff mods, then switched them out for 65% mods..That helped...I also had the 26.5" to 29.5" cams on there, #5's , I think??..It might have been better to have the next size down cams, that maxed at 28"?...The new Cam 1/2 Plus cams are said to be smoother, but I dont feel it...The C2 cams are really nice, as are the Vector's, but I'm really impressed with these new Z3 cams...The draw a little smoother than the Spirals, and have a better valley, but still shoot as fast, or faster than Spirals...I set the cam timing, and moved the draw stop peg to the 65% let-off, and the back wall is very solid...Over-all, very nice... I'd love to try a set C-2's, or Vectors on a Trykon XL, just to see how it would shoot...The Trykon XL is a very heavy bow, and holds like a rock for Me...Take Care...Harperman


Now let see if I can put it all together then a Trykon XL with Z3 cams. Holds like a rock, fast, smoother, and better valley! I have a friend that just got a Trykon XL and love it. Said it the best bow so far. Now I only have to convince him to let me borrow it.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

DDShooter...Man, we are thinking alike now!...L.O.L...There is a very nice Trykon XL target bow at the shop for sale...it has 29.5" Zephyr cams, and I was thinking that I could buy it, and order some Z3 cams for it...I would have a heavy, pretty bow for targets, and a lighter, camo bow for hunting....The main problem is that Hoyt has been REALLY REALLY slow in getting cams out to Dealers that order them for customers to change draw lengths...A buddy of mine ordered new cams for His '07 38 Ultra last December...He is supposed to be getting them in the next couple weeks...That's not cool...The shop owner has a set of 28" Zephyr cams, with 65% let-off, that I was thinking I could change out, if I bought that Trykon XL...I gotta sell a couple bows that I'm not shooting first, though...Take Care...Harperman


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Don't sell them just trade them here for what you want or see if the shop would trade.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

DDshooter...The only bows that I have for sale are a 66" Hill-Style longbow, and the Scepter 3...I also have a 23" Win&Win recurve riser, so I'm thinking about selling My 25" Win&Win Exfeel riser as well...But, it's a great shooting riser, so I'm kinda leary about selling it..If I can get around $200.00 for the Scepter 3, and a couple hundred more for the longbow, I'll have the cash to buy the Trykon XL, and put new cams and strings on it..As for trading the other bows in, that aint gonna happen..L.O.L..I've been getting harrassed at the bowshop for shooting a Martin bow since I bought it last summer..L.O.L..Some folks just dont get the idea that a 43" bow, with 8" of brace height, and a shoot-through system is a great indoor finger shooters bow..L.O.L...Unless it's a Mathews Apex, and I had one of those, and still got harrassed by the Hoyt shooters..L.O.L..I'd like to have that Apex back, though...Take Care...Harperman


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Harperman.....Its the same with me. I have a bow and I really like it. I buy a new one and try it out and like it too. Soon I stop shooting the old ones. Just lately I gave away three bows that I had for several year, loved them all. Its like when someone shows up with a radical bow and shoots it well then I have to try it. Does this make us Bowjunkies or something? Maybe I should start a poll to see how many bowjunkies are out there. LOL.......


----------



## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Harperman,

A Howard Hill style long bow? You are a glutton for punishment. That thing will kick your fillings out. Dump it and go for the new Hoyt.


----------



## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

My views are different on the subject of parallel limb bows. I think they are not as stable as shorter riser bows with longer limbs. I have two bows that I shoot off fingers, a Mathews Rival Pro which is a long riser bow and an Oneida Pro Eagle. When the Pro Eagle is drawn, the tips move a long way back and this adds to the stability so much so that I don't have to worry about hand torque at all. The distance that the tips move back effectively adds to the brace height as far as stability at full draw is concerned. With the Mathews I have to be a lot more carefull with how I place the bow hand on the grip and the bow will torque if you don't get it right.Both bows have hard cams and I shoot them both off the back wall so there's no difference there.


----------



## jhart75609 (Nov 8, 2005)

I'll throw in. I have the Connie, and yeah the valley, or lack there of, was a bit hard to get use too. I was out of archery for a few years, and the Connie was a big change from the bows of 10 years ago. Sometimes now if I'm not paying as much attention as I should be it almost gets away from me when I'm settling in to my anchor. Positive is, you don't creep!

I like the draw stop and the solid wall. Can't put put my finger on why, but I do. My old PSE Citation 2 really feels funny now. The Connie feels very solid to hold to me. It seems to lock right in and is as stable as anything I've shot.

You guys make me wish I had a shop close to look at all the new bows. I'm sure the wife is glad I don't. I shoot at a "big box" store (only thing close) I think the longest ATA they have is about 34". I might have to make a treck in the morning to shoot and look around.

As anyone shot the PSE Money Maker. 40" ATA with the new cams and over 300fps IBO. I'd like to hear some thoughts on it.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

jhart75609.....A buddy of mine shot a MoneyMaker last night, and said that it was very very smooth, and held very well...He ordered one after shooting it...When it gets here, supposed to be about 2 weeks, I'll shoot it and let You know...Harperman


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

mitchell said:


> Harperman,
> 
> A Howard Hill style long bow? You are a glutton for punishment. That thing will kick your fillings out. Dump it and go for the new Hoyt.


...Mitchell..This longbow doesnt kick real bad, it has some "Thump", but isnt as bad as some...The plus side is that this bow is pretty quick, and with heavier arrows, it shoots allright..I have had folks try to convince Me for years that a Hill-Style bow doesnt kick in the hand, if You are gripping it right...L.O.L...I've had Hill-Style bows that didnt have much handshock/kick at all, and shot others of that style, and they kicked like a mule...Depends on how well the limbs are tillered, and timed, as well as the center point of the grip...The price is cheap enough for a well made Longbow, and some folks dont seem to even notice when a bow kicks in the hand..My Wife's brother can shoot a hard kicking bow and not even mention it..L.O.L...Harperman


----------



## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Harperman, 

You know I'm kidding. Truth is I once owned a Craig Eaken Howard Hill style straight limb long bow made for Bob Wesley. Bob sold it to me, graciously, after spending a day with him shooting. Bob Wesley could shoot a 6" group at 50 yds on a decent day with that bow (he had a 6" ring set up on a marked target). I didn't fair quiet so well. The grip was straight, and oval. I had fits with it and finally sold it.

The best trad bow I ever owned was a DAS Kinetics recurve. I killed a gray squirrel at 44 steps with that thing. Man it was sweet. Of course that was about my 10th try at a long shot kill. Anyway, those bows are fun. I am really enjoying the bare bow compound these days. Its easier for me to fight both the shoulder issues, and the old TP when it rears its head. And its still the fun of bare bow.


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Mitchell, the shoulder issues, and T.P. are something that We both share...I've played with the barebow shooting, but not done anything serious with it...I reckon that with a bow shooting over 250 f.p.s., shooting a "Gap-Stinctive" type aiming system could work very well for 3-D, and be awesome in the deer woods...keeping a couple pins on the bow helps Me with my "Issues"..L.O.L...Take Care...Harperman


----------



## jhart75609 (Nov 8, 2005)

First off, someone pat me on the back. I shot a 298 this morning, best I've shot since starting to shoot again in '06. Would have been really pleased if I wouldn't have dropped the last arrow. I hate that! I didn't count X's, but I would think it would have been 35 or better. It was sure nice leaving a range feeling good about the way I shot. I actually felt like there are 300's in me again.

Anyway, I'm sure the new PSE "X" bows are considered parallel limbs, but from the pics I've seen it looks like they do it with the way the limbs bend more, and not as much with the angle they attach to the riser. I really need to take a ride to a shop that carries these things so I can see them!

Another parallel limb that might be worth a look would be the Bowtech Commander. I think that's the one with the 37" ATA. I don't think I would like it, but I would think some finger shooters would do well with it. I'd like to see that in velvet finish too.


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

jhart75609 said:


> First off, someone pat me on the back. I shot a 298 this morning, best I've shot since starting to shoot again in '06. Would have been really pleased if I wouldn't have dropped the last arrow. I hate that! I didn't count X's, but I would think it would have been 35 or better. It was sure nice leaving a range feeling good about the way I shot. I actually felt like there are 300's in me again.
> 
> Anyway, I'm sure the new PSE "X" bows are considered parallel limbs, but from the pics I've seen it looks like they do it with the way the limbs bend more, and not as much with the angle they attach to the riser. I really need to take a ride to a shop that carries these things so I can see them!
> 
> Another parallel limb that might be worth a look would be the Bowtech Commander. I think that's the one with the 37" ATA. I don't think I would like it, but I would think some finger shooters would do well with it. I'd like to see that in velvet finish too.


Jhart
I shot the Bowtech Gaurdian and Commander last year at the Bowtech semi-trailer during the Bowhunter happening triple crown shoot in Az. To my suprise, both had no hand shock, no finger pinch, both felt alot heavier than my UltraElite. The longer Commander was faster than the Gaurdian. I didn't see very many bowtech shooters with them? One release shooter had one with the Velvet finish and it looked great. Just my two cents.


----------



## jhart75609 (Nov 8, 2005)

DDShooter....I got to shoot an 82nd today with the invelvet finish. The finish was neat, not neat enough to make me want a new bow, but I did like it.

The bow was amazing. The fella had it set up shooting 330 fps, and it was completely dead in the hand. It didn't feel bad shooting it, but I just shot it a couple of times. I bet if I shot it much the 35" ATA would get to me. It was really amazing to me how "calm" the bow was kicking out that much energy. I didn't care a lot for the draw though, it dropped over a bit to harsh for me.

I like my Connie a lot, but it's fun seeing the new stuff.


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Jhart75609......how much slower is your connie, if any, than the 82nd you just shot? Did it have Speed mods? I really like bowtech but have not been able to get to a shop that has them all. Someday I will! However, I did just shoot a Trykon XL and it was dead in the hand. My friend had it setup for release. I was able to put all four arrows together at 20 yards, not bad off a lizard type spring rest. Kind of heavy like the Commander. How much does the Connie weigh? A long time ago High Country use to make all their bow real heavy so they didn't jump alot, I didn't get one because it was to heavy to carry around the woods. Is the weight of the bow making it dead in the hand or is it the parallel limb design or both? The reason I ask is because a really good shooter has asked me if I could cast some rubber weights in all the hole in his old Jenning single cam bow and I thought to myself man he should just get a new bow with parallel limbs? Now I am not talking adding weight externally to the riser but adding to the riser itself for better balance.


----------



## jhart75609 (Nov 8, 2005)

DD Shooter.. I shot bows years ago that were heavy, and still had quite a kick to them. The 82nd was shooting about 330 fps, my Connie shoots about 283. I'm shooting almost 6 grains per pound he was shooting just over 5. The Connie weighs 4.2 I think, I didn't really notice how heavy the 82nd was. I really believe the limbs have more to do with the lack of shock than the weight. 

The bow didn't have a sling, so I was gripping it a tad, and still nothing. I wonder if the "in velvet" finish insulates your hand from any vibration. I'm telling you though it was amazing.

I like a heavier bow to shoot, I hold it better. I'm a KY treestand hunter so packing the weight doesn't bother me.


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Jhart75609.... Thanks for the info.


----------

