# Light weight, mid-priced stabilizers?



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

the fiberbow stabs are the lightest. but not in your price range of $200-$250. 


Chris


----------



## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

I think your thought process is exactly right. Well, at least I came to the same conclusion! At 5'-6", I'm not much taller. I'm old, out of shape, and participated in a sport that is tough on shoulders, so I've been leery about adding too much bow weight too quickly. I have 24" Avancee, 4" extension, 8" side rods, 40° flat V-bar on my spare Forged + that works well for me. That set-up new is a little over your budget, but the Avancees come up used pretty regularly. The idea is to maximize the effect of the sidebars without adding excessive weight, you want the ends of the side bars even with the grip.

Paul


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

It appears I'm going to have to up my budget a bit! So let's say ~$350.

I couldn't find much information on the Fiberbow stabs (weight and such) to compare them to the others. The Avancee stuff seems a bit heavier than any of the others. Has anyone used the Bernie's Featherlite stabs? They seem to be crazy light, but I can't find many reviews online.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Why not just run the front rod and a back weight? You have to be shooting exceptionally well to notice a difference compared to V-bars.

-Grant


----------



## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

If you want a superior set up contact Carl Jamison here in Albuquerque he owns Rock Solid Stabalizers and you won't beat the price
505 857-0814


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

HMC PLUS 26" + 03x3/4oz weight, Nshock type A damper.
HMC PLUS 10" + 1 1/2 oz paired, no dampers.
Shibuya Caruno 45deg vbar.
HMC PLUS 5" extender.

If the limbs flutter a little too much on release but for a very short period of time, add an up stabilizer with 1 1/2 oz weight, but on the bottom of the riser.

If the initial powerstroke flutter is small but the vibration can't seem to die off, add a little more weight in front of the long stabilizer.

Do not have more than 3oz of front weight. You may only do that if you change the entire configuration of your stabilizers.


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

Wow, thanks theminoritydude, that is very precise. Much appreciated


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

mahgnillig said:


> Wow, thanks theminoritydude, that is very precise. Much appreciated


Not precise enough. Can you have someone measure the span your left and right clavicles? You know, that bump on the top of your shoulders?


----------



## Lostnthewoods (Jan 24, 2013)

theminoritydude said:


> Not precise enough. Can you have someone measure the span your left and right clavicles? You know, that bump on the top of your shoulders?


Sounds like this is going to get real techy. I'm curious how the clavicle span is factored in. Thanks.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Lostnthewoods said:


> Sounds like this is going to get real techy. I'm curious how the clavicle span is factored in. Thanks.


Not directly. I'm just collecting data. For Gillingham's future purchase.


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

There is a guy here that makes inexpensive carbon stabs...no reason to spend big bucks on a tube....don't have a link handy though (not sure where his thread is)

I did the DIY thing...bought endcaps and weights from a guy here, bought a 6' piece of .060" wall CF, cut what I needed.

At the end of the day I was out about 225 bucks and that was shipped. I still have an 8" piece of CF that I can cut and make a unicorn with and I don't use all the weight I bought on that bow.

And best of all, that rod is stiffer than anything else out there....haven't done my dampening to it yet though--when I get back to shooting recurve, I'll fix that.


----------



## DarkMuppet (Oct 23, 2013)

Just throwing the Fivics CEX5 into the mix. 
A fantastic, relatively cheap stabilizer system (long rod is only $90, side rods $60.) and was good enough for Kim Woojin when he broke the World FITA record of 1391 ... 

You'd get everything you needed at your original budget then.


----------



## leschrader (Jun 26, 2012)

Jen,
I've been using Bernie's Falcon Featherweight stabs for awhile now. If your looking for a reasonable cost light weight stab, IMHO, they can't be beat. As you get age challenged (old) your shoulders can't handle the physical weight of the "super dooper-do everything" stabs and you look for the lightest you can afford that give the most stable float you can achieve. For me, Bernie's accomplish that. If you have the chance to handle one you'd be shocked at how light they are.....I haven't had the chance to handle the fiberbow or even seen the specs., but of the stabs I've been around, the Falcon Featherweights seem to be the lightest. I run Uukha or Border limbs, which have a rep for noise and vibration, on a Helix riser with Bernie Featherweights and Simms vibration dampeners in place of weight on the ends and the bow is dead in the hand. My entire setup weighs 5.3 lbs. I believe that Bernie's has an ad in the "Manufacturers Announcement and press release" forum and offers a discount to AT members.

-Schrader


----------



## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

OP, when researching recommendations, be sure to remember that a v-bar and bolt will add another 1.5" to the system. Also see what comes with the stabilizer. For example, you would need to add a dampener and weight to the recommended HMC which would then total 33". I would search for a 24" stabilizer complete with dampener and weight to start. Add v-bar and bolt and you already have 25.5". A 3" extension = 28.5". I have a 3" Doinker carbon and it actually measures closer to 3.5", so that would give you a 29" system. 

Good luck in your search.


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

You might consider just buying a few bucks' worth of weights and seeing if you can make the bow sit how you want just by adding or dropping end weight. You're emphasizing the engineering, equipment aspect, but I didn't really feel much difference between my two carbon front rods at different price points. Once it's carbon you're talking about ounces or a portion of an ounce difference. I got more out of the pure physics, emphasizing the questions of how much end weight how far out. The same thing sits different with different weights. I do think the new longer stab works better for me but what really made it sit better was playing with the weights.

Someone mentioned complete with dampener, pay close attention to the photos and whether the dampening you want is stock (or if you are willing to cannibalize the old one). Ironically a SF axiom may come with dampening stock that a Shibuya doesn't. It took an o-ring and end dampener to get the Caruno rod right for me. Otherwise it was shaking things loose on the riser.


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

OK, so I measured my clavicle (not quite sure why, but I have a feeling I'll find out!). It's approx 11 inches between the knobbly bits on top of my shoulders.

I also measured and weighed my current stab setup. Right now the long rod with damper and weights (plus a few washers I added when playing with balance) comes out to 32.5" and 7oz. This, I can handle easily as it's what I've been shooting with for a while. When I add the v-bar and side rods is when it starts to get too heavy and cumbersome. The whole setup (30" long rod, v-bar, 12" side rods plus dampers & weights on all rods) comes to approx 20oz and 34" long. The 34" is verging on being too long, and makes it somewhat uncomfortable to rest the bow in between shots. If I added an extender to this, which was my original plan in order to get the weight forward more and balanced how I like it, it would be way too long! 32"ish combined length for everything including dampers and weights seems about right. I also get tired very quickly with 20oz of stuff hanging off the front of my bow... upper body strength has never really been my 'strong' point (pun intended  )

The weight factor is really why I was interested in the Bernie's stabs. I got my hands on one 10" Featherlite side rod at the range yesterday... it was crazy light! I asked the owners/coaches about them and they both said they love them and shoot Bernie's rods on their own bows. Having said that, they both shoot compound and one said that he thought they were rather stiff and fat for recurve and recommended the Easton X10 instead (which is something I hadn't even looked at so far). Sadly, recurve shooters are in the minority here so there's not much opportunity to try out other peoples' stuff.

Anyway, I'm not in a super hurry to get this new setup... I've put the cash aside so I can take my time to decide what I want. I realise that a stab is essentially just a stick with a weight on it that I could probably make for not much money, but I'm one of those people that will fake themselves out over gear choices and always be wondering 'what if'. I figure it's worth spending the money to get something I believe is helping me... especially since archery is just as much a mental sport as a physical one. Thanks for all the help so far everyone


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

23" riser, short limbs, 28" long rod with NShock B type dampener + 3oz weight, no extenders, no Vbars, 1 up stab attached to the bottom of the riser with 2 1/4 - 3oz weight (Or if you could find an attachment to directly attach the weight to the riser without an up stab), 10mm positive tiller, brace height beginning at 8 1/2 inch.

Limb alignment :- Centre the string with the middle of the grip throat, tip of long stabilizer pointed to the left, just touching the string. More tilt on the upper limb pocket than on the bottom. Set plunger to have the centreshot referenced to the string and middle of the grip throat, then give one full round turn to the left.


----------



## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

You might check with Bernie and see if they still have any 28" Litenin Rods left. They had a couple left in December at a good discount. The side rods are still listed on their page. http://www.robinhoodvideos.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=39_72 They are really skinny and lite at .625" dia. I've been using them a month and haven't noticed any flex, but I don't have much weight on them either.

Paul


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

theminoritydude, could you please explain the whys and wherefores of that second paragraph to me as if I'm a complete idiot with absolutely no clue what it means  I'm afraid my grasp of set up and tuning goes about as far as reading the tuning for tens guide and following along as best I can!


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

mahgnillig said:


> theminoritydude, could you please explain the whys and wherefores of that second paragraph to me as if I'm a complete idiot with absolutely no clue what it means  I'm afraid my grasp of set up and tuning goes about as far as reading the tuning for tens guide and following along as best I can!


Apologies for not reading everything in the opening post, I did not take into account the fact that you were uncomfortable with the long protruding stabilizer setup. It would have worked beautifully though.

Particular to your situation, a compromise second setup was designed. In the first setup, a certain amount of lateral(left and right) weight distribution exists that minimizes yaw during the shot, yaw that comes about during the dynamic motion of a release, coupled with a heavier right side. In the second setup, due to the lack of that weight distribution, it would be prudent to shift that mass centre to at least be closer to or coincide with the line of action, or plane of action if you will, which is formed by the string and the middle of your grip. Furthermore, this small insignificant modification ( also berated as a kind of aberration by many of my detractors) seems to counteract the effects of the initial twist of the top half of the bow, a result of the asymmetry of the modern recurve riser.

If you have trouble understanding what I'm trying to say, don't try to understand it. It won't stop you from shooting a more stable setup than you would have if you didn't make the modification. You can test this by tuning it the normal way as depicted by all the other books out there.

Have fun


----------



## TerpSox (Feb 19, 2014)

theminoritydude said:


> Apologies for not reading everything in the opening post, I did not take into account the fact that you were uncomfortable with the long protruding stabilizer setup. It would have worked beautifully though.
> 
> Particular to your situation, a compromise second setup was designed. In the first setup, a certain amount of lateral(left and right) weight distribution exists that minimizes yaw during the shot, yaw that comes about during the dynamic motion of a release, coupled with a heavier right side. In the second setup, due to the lack of that weight distribution, it would be prudent to shift that mass centre to at least be closer to or coincide with the line of action, or plane of action if you will, which is formed by the string and the middle of your grip. Furthermore, this small insignificant modification ( also berated as a kind of aberration by many of my detractors) seems to counteract the effects of the initial twist of the top half of the bow, a result of the asymmetry of the modern recurve riser.
> 
> ...


TMD,

I have been following this thread with some interest as I am about to purchase a long rod and weights, a first for me.

I am considering either the HMC Plus. the Fivics CEX5, or the SF Ultimate Carbon Stabilizer. My draw length is 30.5" shooting 3 under barebow at present on a 25 inch riser with long limbs (6 ft tall). The local archery shop suggested a 28-30" long rod. I seem to recall you did not care for the 30" HMC Plus. Would it be better to go with the 28" HMC Plus or consider others at 30"?

Thanks in advance for any and all comments.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

TerpSox said:


> TMD,
> 
> I have been following this thread with some interest as I am about to purchase a long rod and weights, a first for me.
> 
> ...


As a disclaimer, I must point out that what I prescribe, can be seriously erroneous when subjected to certain deviations from statistical norms (high grip vs low/med grip, high vs low let-off cams, straight arm/bent arm), and on top of that, I have a disregard for shooting comfort and "feel". As you might have also noticed, I am very precise with the recommendations. I am not too interested in general setups, they are adequately covered by many here, and I would rather just stay out of their way so as to avoid confusion.

It would be nice if you could tell me more details like poundage and other hardware etc.


----------



## Dave V (Aug 13, 2008)

The Doinker Avancee setup is a nice package that isn't too bulky or expensive. My wife shoots this on her 26lb target bow.

http://www.doinker.com/products/target/avancee


----------



## TerpSox (Feb 19, 2014)

theminoritydude said:


> As a disclaimer, I must point out that what I prescribe, can be seriously erroneous when subjected to certain deviations from statistical norms (high grip vs low/med grip, high vs low let-off cams, straight arm/bent arm), and on top of that, I have a disregard for shooting comfort and "feel". As you might have also noticed, I am very precise with the recommendations. I am not too interested in general setups, they are adequately covered by many here, and I would rather just stay out of their way so as to avoid confusion.
> 
> It would be nice if you could tell me more details like poundage and other hardware etc.


Using a SF Forged Plus 25" riser with 28# long SF Premium Plus limbs, holding 32.5# OTF and 8 oz weight mounted below grip on stabilizer bushing. Use a mid grip, definitely not low. No sight yet, but probably going with Shibuya Ultima RC - aluminum.


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

Thanks for the explanation TMD  

So if I'm understanding this correctly, a bow will torque in my hand as I draw and release because I'm a human and not a robot. So to fix this we add side rods to minimise this movement and stabilise the sight picture. If side rods aren't feasible for some reason, then slightly angling the limbs will accomplish the same thing. 

Thanks again, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

mahgnillig said:


> Thanks for the explanation TMD
> 
> So if I'm understanding this correctly, a bow will torque in my hand as I draw and release because I'm a human and not a robot. So to fix this we add side rods to minimise this movement and stabilise the sight picture. If side rods aren't feasible for some reason, then slightly angling the limbs will accomplish the same thing.


Well, not really. There's not much torque to talk about past 30lbs, but every bit of MOI helps. Torque does not affect recurve archers as much as high let-off compound archers, what little help comes with an outward distributed mass is welcome anyways.

The slight offset is to counter the inevitable twisting of the top half of the riser (due to the sight window) during a draw. Every time you draw a bow that is "in plane" at brace, at full draw, the nocking point ends up on the right side of that plane. This causes the string to whip that much more to the left on release, couple that with the finger release, causing the string to come very close to the bow arm. The unequal distribution of mass left and right of the bow also serves to aggravate the situation, all compounding to a very disturbed launch of the arrow. 

Having the string run through the middle of the string groove of the limb has been very often emphasised. I have long wondered what importance this has on the shot. Given that the string whips left and right on a finger release anyway, and with the twisting of the riser, I do not consider having the string in the groove very high on the list of priorities; I do consider where the string starts off, higher up that list.

I understand that there are plenty of skeptics, I urge you all to try this and feel for yourselves the cleaner shot. Also, those whose bows with the bottom limb touching their legs on the bow drop instead of a "Ki Bo Bae" full unobstructed roll of the bow, you might want to try this.

Those with a GMX or any Hoyt risers with a grip shift adjustment, shifting the grip to the right (RH riser) alone does the same thing.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Just arrived an hour ago.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Specialty Archery Ultra Lite Stabilizers. They are very light.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Similar weight to HMC PLUS, thickness is similar as well. Unsure of the stiffness, subject to further tests.


----------



## jeffrop (Apr 24, 2010)

FWIW I have used, for past 3 years, Bernies Lite Hawk stab with shock collars and side rods and have had zero issues. Set up is very good and vibration dampening on par with other $$$$ products. I use the Shibuya adjustable v-bar adaptor with quick release and a 2" extension. For main stab weights, I use fender washers (Home Depot) and test various weight combinations till it feels right. 
Price point is in your range for the complete set up


----------



## CarbonWarrior (Apr 12, 2014)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2226012&highlight=Carbon

GREAT stabs at AWESOME prices!


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

that's who I was thinking of...
thanks for posting.


----------



## PaulME (Jun 11, 2014)

The link carbonwarrior posted looks to be an awesome price. His price on carbon is what you would pay to buy a tube (or less) yourself, then you need to make the ends.

I'm making my own and it will wind up costing me more than his price - of course for me part of the fun is making the parts as I have the equipment. I'm also perpetuating the old saying that an engineer is someone that will pay extra to get something in kit form.

Paul


----------



## Quasimodo (Nov 26, 2014)

Yes, Steve in Arizona (steveinaz). Cost me $180 for 28" with 2ea 12" back-stabs, 4oz weight, 3ea 2oz weights, 3ea 1oz weights, bolts. Then I bought the Shrewd totally adjustable v-bar and quick disconnects front and back for $139 from Lancaster Archery.


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

TMD, please let me know how those CEX1900 stabs are... the only information I can find on them appears to be in Korean. I can't find them for sale in the UK or US yet either.


----------

