# Micro diameter arrows



## Ben Pearson (Oct 7, 2016)

I was looking at small diameter shafts too, because on some bows it would bring the center of the shaft closer to the center of the bow.
I would think they would be slightly heavier, since spine is determined partly by shaft diameter. Some bows like a heavier arrow.


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## Corene1 (Apr 27, 2014)

I am only familiar with some of Eastons arrows , but the small diameter shafts are also very light at the same spine as some of the larger diameter shafts. Spine is also determined by wall thickness as well as diameter. My .600 spine carbon ones are 6.9 GPI. my 570spine ACE is 6.3GPI. And My carbon Ions are larger shafts and are 600 spine but weigh 6.4 GPI. so all are very similar in weight. It seems the smaller diameter shafts are higher up in the price range though. The small diameter shafts are less affected by crosswinds at longer distances but I see no difference out to 30 yards , but at longer yardages they do buck the wind better than large diameter shafts particularly at the longer 50 to 80 yard shots. I have seen a few tests that show the smaller diameter shafts having better penetration when hunting since the broad head makes a bigger hole than the shaft giving the shaft less drag as it passes through, but not real sure of that .


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

probably going to switch my recurve to black eagle deep impacts with firenock outserts. Been using them for a few years now on the compound and like them. Going to see how one of my 340 spines bare shaft first though.


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## flytru (Apr 8, 2016)

Hi BP I also wondered and tried these out of my bow but since it was older vintage I wondered whether getting too light would be damaging ?
Make one and determine total arrow weight then relate that to GPPof bow weight.


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## bcsportsman (Jul 11, 2013)

I've tuned my arrows to my bow and the difference in arrow weight is almost 100gr. My old arrows being heavier. So should I hunt with my old arrows or new


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## bcsportsman (Jul 11, 2013)

I got them for free and was planning on turning them into some flu-flus just to shoot around


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## LJOHNS (Dec 14, 2004)

you should be shooting close to 10 grains per pound. Too light and you can damage your bow. Lots of guys shoot carbons with brass inserts to up the weight.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

I shoot the Beman MFX and Axis and like the skinnier shafts....

I don't like the skinny shafts with outserts. I shot for Beman in the 90's with those skinny shafts for about 10 years [you didn't think they were new did you? grin] and the shaft itself is awesome....but the components are the problem..... getting them perfectly straight. 

Its by design....the components just have a hard time being as straight as an insert. You should be Ok with FP's its when you put a BH on that it will rear its ugly head. You can mitigate it with very short heads if you must shoot these.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

What's the cutoff for a shaft to be considered "micro"? 

I've been shooting Easton ACC for as years (a .340 has a 0.289 OD), if they qualify for the term I can say they work great.

I've also tried Easton AXIS and Beman MFX Classics, both are also good arrows but I didn't care for the HIT insert.


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## bcsportsman (Jul 11, 2013)

These are victory vaps at .166 diameter and 400 spine at 29 inches. I'm shooting a Ben Pearson cougar at 44#. And I screwed on my current broad heads and I notice a little tail whip but I was accurate out to 25, didn't try any further.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Ah, now that's a skinny shaft. I've read of others on this board with a lot of knowledge that like those shafts, they should serve you well.

Have you tried any formal tuning? I'm a big fan of tuning with bare shafts, get three bare and three fletched grouping together at 25 yards and rest assured your broadheads will be right there too (same weight). If you haven't tried it here's a link to the process...http://www.acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning.html


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

VAP target arrows are light 280g with mine 110g points and shooting 37# off the fingers. This works out 7.5gpp which is considered fine for a modern ILF target bow.

My impression from shooting both, mid diameter shafts are easier to tune and maybe a little more forgiving but if you have good Form and know how to tune then skinny arrows are unbeatable for tourney shooting, I would say 98% of the top tourney Field/3D Barebow archers use skinny arrows. 

My setup gives me a 65y point on, as I'm Stringwalking that gives me a good advantage on Field rounds and 3D with a very flat shooting arrow. I used CT Cheetahs before 315g with 39# off the fingers, I still had a good point on 60y and they shot great but slight soft shot past 50 yards would sometimes cost me points. Skinny arrows has allowed me to drop weight and gain speed and point on distance.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I have shot Easton ACE and ACG for year, and went to VAP's for my lighter bows. I am comfortable with skinny arrows. I originally went to skinny arrows since I was shooting the long distances for FITA barebow target (90 and 70 meters). I stayed with the skinny arrows when I started moving toward shorter distances needed for field archery. I have found them reasonable to tune and they fly well when you get them right. My are not flying well now since I am doing light bow practice with low spine arrows. I get a lot of loud cracks when the arrows collide with my riser and rest. It has been a long time since I have shot a bow that is in tune. I am looking forward to getting back there soon once I build back up to my competition weight...wait, I am a stringwalker. Never mind.


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## mt_elkhunter (Feb 28, 2010)

LJOHNS said:


> you should be shooting close to 10 grains per pound. Too light and you can damage your bow. Lots of guys shoot carbons with brass inserts to up the weight.


Is this info for traditional bows? I think I'd have a hard time getting a 800+ grain arrow for my compound


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## JamesThom. (Oct 9, 2016)

mt_elkhunter said:


> Is this info for traditional bows? I think I'd have a hard time getting a 800+ grain arrow for my compound


You can shoot an 800 grain arrow out of a compound. It would probably have to be a step up in spine from what you are currently shooting though with a very heavy head. This is all about classic archery.


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

LJOHNS said:


> you should be shooting close to 10 grains per pound. Too light and you can damage your bow. Lots of guys shoot carbons with brass inserts to up the weight.


Why would you shoot so much weight? I'm curious. The bow damage angle isn't true.


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## keb (Jul 17, 2007)

I just switch over from standard .246 gold tip to the .204 gold tip kinetic (axis size). My bow is not cut past center as much as most recurves.

The switch I did not think would make much diff, wrong. I have shot the best in last few days then I ever have.

I run the ballistic collar on the kinetics, it takes the weak link out of the outserts. Any I run axis nocks, gt nock don't fit 14 strand string well

I did go up in arrow weight 40 grains, but had to lower my nock point to compensate for the skinny shaft, so my trajectory and sight picture stayed the same.

Win win


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## LJOHNS (Dec 14, 2004)

10 grains per pound is For hunting. Target is a different story.


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

LJOHNS said:


> 10 grains per pound is For hunting. Target is a different story.


I see. Have never heard of such a heavy arrow for any purpose. I've always shoot very light arrows for both hunting and target. Never shot an arrow over 305 grains hunting. On broadside deer shots I get complete pass-throughs with only 38 pounds OTF. Stinger broadheads without the bleeder blade in place. The flat trajectory is what I want. Using such a draw weight I wouldn't consider a heavy arrow. In the end it's pretty easy to kill a deer if you simply hit them in a good spot. Have never found a heavy bow required. That, and I can't shoot one well. LOL I'm a little guy.


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## JamesThom. (Oct 9, 2016)

Keeshond said:


> I see. Have never heard of such a heavy arrow for any purpose. I've always shoot very light arrows for both hunting and target. Never shot an arrow over 305 grains hunting. On broadside deer shots I get complete pass-throughs with only 38 pounds OTF. Stinger broadheads without the bleeder blade in place. The flat trajectory is what I want. Using such a draw weight I wouldn't consider a heavy arrow. In the end it's pretty easy to kill a deer if you simply hit them in a good spot. Have never found a heavy bow required. That, and I can't shoot one well. LOL I'm a little guy.


10gpp is not that heavy. Generally speaking a heavier arrow is a more stable arrow in flight. It's less effected by wind and maintains it's velocity and momentum down range very well. I've never hunted before but generally speaking a well placed shot will cut through and kill anything. The problem with too light of an arrow is that it will have difficulty breaking bone and a heavier arrow will be more forgiving and will be more likely to break bone on a less than ideal hit.

Too light of an arrow will also adversely effect very long distance shooting since they shed their velocity at a much faster rate than a heavier arrow.


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## LJOHNS (Dec 14, 2004)

Lots of info on arrow weight and penetration on other trad sites.


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## marc weier (May 26, 2009)

I shoot full length VAP's with 200 grain head and they work great. Finished arrow is 500 grains and they fly great out of my 50# bows.


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## doubleeagle (Jun 3, 2012)

I shoot Easton Axis from my #55 vintage Fleetwood bow. These shots were from 22yds and I like the look and performance.


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## bcsportsman (Jul 11, 2013)

Ok so I've don't some calculations and with my old heavier arrow traveling 140fps at 483 grains I come up with 21.02 KE and momentum of .3. New micro diameter arrows is traveling at 169fps at 370 grains. This arrow is delivering 23.46KE and .278 on momentum. Which arrow would you choose?


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## twigzz88 (Jul 17, 2006)

They are both relatively the same. Shot what your comfortable with. I plan on switching (next season) to axis arrows which will come out to about 388 grains. They will perform just as well as my 450 gt arrows. With a .2 drop in ke.but i get about 10-14 fps. Its a give and take in what you want out of your setup


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## Tradchef (Oct 30, 2004)

I use the Axis and the Centershots(in between skinny and regular carbon). Always like the way they come out of the longbows.


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## Archer Mech (Sep 7, 2014)

I bought a set of Easton Deep Six arrows that were fletched with vanes for a compound bow (Y orientation). I stripped the vanes and fletched them with 4" shield cut feathers and I like the flight so far tested out of my 45# Bob Lee Exotic. They are 330 spine and weigh 1.05 ounces so they're not too light for the bow. I left them full length for my long draw. I like them, but they can be a disadvantage on those on-the-line shots shooting target...ha.


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## berzerk64 (Nov 27, 2013)

Keeshond said:


> I see. Have never heard of such a heavy arrow for any purpose. I've always shoot very light arrows for both hunting and target. Never shot an arrow over 305 grains hunting. On broadside deer shots I get complete pass-throughs with only 38 pounds OTF. Stinger broadheads without the bleeder blade in place. The flat trajectory is what I want. Using such a draw weight I wouldn't consider a heavy arrow. In the end it's pretty easy to kill a deer if you simply hit them in a good spot. Have never found a heavy bow required. That, and I can't shoot one well. LOL I'm a little guy.


The bow damage angle is more a factor for trad bows, different construction and materials in the cores. the newer ILF bows and such it is apparently much less a factor, but if you shoot a 5GPP arrow out of a 60# recurve, the thing will sing and shake in your hand like nobodies business unless you have significant dampening going on. There's a lot less weight in a trad bow compared to a kitted out compound. Also, you are talking far higher energy from a wheel bow compared to a longbow or recurve, slower speeds and more weight helps up the momentum. I shoot 500 grain arrows out of my 57# longbow.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

Just a few thoughts, FWIW. 

First, I see no advantage to "micro" arrows (which I personally see as any arrow 0.25" or less) at trad/hunting distances.
At longer distances in excess of 50 - 60 yards, then yes, they is an advantage IF the tolerances on the arrows are kept tight.

As far as weight, most modern production bows (meaning ILF types) can go well below 7 gpp without any consequence. 
Tuning (and form) may become more critical, however. 

Given the effect on arrow diameter on centershot, a stiffer arrow may be required compared to a fatter arrow. 

Viper1 out.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Depends on the bow. Check with the manufacturer.
I shoot 8.8 grains/#.
The manufacturer lists 7 grains/# as minimum but recommends 10% over that.
I like "400/40"...At least 400 grains and 40# at your draw length.


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