# game wardens walkin in on us while deer hunting



## retrieverfishin (Oct 18, 2010)

I wish my local CO's took the time to do this around me. Violators all over the place and it would be nice to hold them accountable....or even have the possibility of being held accountable. I am entering my 20th hunting season in the area and have been checked 1 time. One.


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## spaz 85 (Mar 7, 2007)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


Well I would assume it would differ from state to state but it is legal in a lot of areas even on private land


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## pa.hunter (Jan 3, 2008)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


30+ years never seen GAME WARDEN YET ! they have more athority that state police in pa. well, they use too?


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## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

Lol, how old are you, 15? Yes, it's legal. Yes, it's their job. Quit crying.


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

In 30 years I've never been checked while hunting. I understand though, 1 CO is responsible for a LOT of area and with answering calls they really don't have time for these random checks in the woods. Been checked out on the water fishing many times. It's a lot easier to find people fishing.


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## SM270 (Jan 28, 2011)

From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


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## lovestobowhunt (Aug 14, 2009)

I have only been checked once. I would not mind if I got checked more often, if that means they are out there trying to catch poachers.


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


Who told you that?


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

mn5503 said:


> Who told you that?


The voices in his head.


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


 that's funny?? they can come on your private property if they want too.. that's a fact look it up..


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


That makes no sense to me brother. I work with a couple of FWC Officers on a regular basis and they always check people while in uniform. They also check people while undercover on plain clothes operations. 

OP Wardens can check you on public or private land while you are hunting in your stand, blind, stalking, or any other method in the majority of the states.


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## jpmcd (Jun 28, 2004)

that's a good thing!


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## Hasty (Mar 23, 2009)

They can drive on your roads too, unless you've got gates, they gotta walk if the gates are locked.


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## MidFlight (Jun 22, 2009)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


You were told wrong, that is exactly waht they get paid to do...wear a uniform and enforce game laws which includes walking into the woods and checking hunters


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

without game wardens there would be no game ... Just be thankful..


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

I do believe if your on private property they are supposed to still have probable cause to be there. They can't just come walking in for no reason. Either someone called them or they saw something up believe something was up.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I know not every state has the same laws. I fully expect that game wardens can do as they please to certain extent on public property. 
In Va. I'm not so sure game wardens can just stroll on to private property that is posted without probable cause or reason to think laws are being broken. That would be similar to the police searching your back yard without cause to do so. However, I would love for a game warden to walk our property lines on a regular basis during gun season!


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## Olydog (Sep 1, 2010)

There has probably been some reported activity in your area for them to take the time to walk in and check you and your partner both at the same time. Keep an eye out for suspicious activity.


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## lungbuster123 (Jan 30, 2009)

Mr. Man said:


> Lol, how old are you, 15? Yes, it's legal. Yes, it's their job. Quit crying.


X2 a lot of people would kill to have that problem. When you start dealing with trespassing and poaching on your land you'll be thankful for his presence.


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

I know we need enforcement of our laws but that fact that game wardens can come onto private property without a warrant is BS!


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## LiteSpeed1 (May 21, 2005)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


Hunter harassment for doing the job they are paid for by the public? I doubt it. With that line of thinking, if you are hanging from your safety harness and the Sheriff's dept or rescue personnel walk in to help you, are you going to claim hunter harassment?


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Skeptic said:


> I do believe if your on private property they are supposed to still have probable cause to be there. They can't just come walking in for no reason. Either someone called them or they saw something up believe something was up.


This is how it should be. However it isnt. Atleast here. They can walk right onto your property for no reason other than they saw a orange hat in a treestand or saw you in camo enter the woods. They do not need probable cause. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## 3dn4jc (Jun 25, 2007)

I know that game wardens have allot of power, but to the OP question, I don't know in your state how far their authority reaches.


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## xcal1ber (Sep 4, 2011)

Dont hold me to this, but I think they have to have a reason in Kentucky to enter private land. They can't just come strolling through. I wouldn't be mad if I was the OP. IT just means they are doing their job.


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## Cjclemens (Aug 20, 2013)

During firearm season, our CPO's fly a plane all over the place. I wish they would just walk out in the timber and do checks, because that stupid plane is ridiculously loud and they fly really low. They might as well ride a Harley with straight pipes through the timber, at that point.


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## vtbowhntr (Sep 21, 2009)

actually a warden can not go on private property without landowner consent or a search warrant to check stands or hunters, they need to follow the same rules as all law enforcement. If I was public land then yes they can. That is the law, they have a tough job and I like to see they are doing it, but they must follow the laws also. I asked a friend about this who is a lawyer, he provided me with the info.


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

Cjclemens said:


> During firearm season, our CPO's fly a plane all over the place. I wish they would just walk out in the timber and do checks, because that stupid plane is ridiculously loud and they fly really low. They might as well ride a Harley with straight pipes through the timber, at that point.


I hunt next to an airport, it's crazy loud some days. It seems like the last hour of light is the best time for student pilot "touch and goes" and treestand fly overs.


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## tyepsu (Jun 9, 2007)

Unfortunately it is legal in most states even without probable cause. I have a few pieces of land that I have received permission to hunt and the landowners have told the game wardens to stay the hell away. Legally, they can still come back; however I think some of the wardens have stayed away just to keep the peace. Some things sound good on paper, but when it comes to real world application do not turn out as well as intended. I know it varies from state to state also. I have heard the Wardens in Ohio are friendly and helpful. Here in PA most WCO think because they have a badge they are some type of [email protected] and most assume every hunter they come into contact with is guilty. I have no issue with them going after poachers, tresspassers (they can't in PA... only local or state law enforcement can do this unless another game law violation is being committed) if they have evidence a violation is taking place. I do have issue when they simply see what appears to be a hunters vehicle parked somewhere and they start walking all over private land looking for who they assume must be in violation of game laws. They actually have more power (Example: don't need a warrant) than state and local law enforcement. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."


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## MiamiValleyYoop (Aug 20, 2013)

Game wardens can come on private and public land for any reason they want. In any state, it's part of the federal game laws.


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## Squirrel (Aug 6, 2008)

Once when I first started hunting a PGC officer stopped us; my dad, my uncle, my brother, and myself. He was nice and we talked hunting after he did his check. I have seen them at parking areas since but never again since that day has one approached me hunting. That was in 1983. 

I do not have a problem with them doing their job, it does stink they come right to your tree and ruin a hunt. But that's better than them not doing their jobs at all.


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

I know they can go check anybody at anytime...that's their job and it is needed with all the bozos running around firing up the woods and the antics they pull. Some of the stories around here would blow your mind what people do and call it hunting. 

Deep down inside, I would get pissed. I would of course comply and put on a smile. I always hunt 100% fully legal so I never have anything to worry about. The warden basically ruined the hunt without a very good reason. He knows before he enters the woods to check hunters at their stands that he will waste their hunt and their time for that day. To me it seems arrogant and unnecessary. 

I have had them wait next to my car after it got dark to talk and check everything and I have also been stopped at checkpoints but that does not bother me. The warden here waited by my car and I walked out...we ended up talking for about 45 minutes and swapping cell phone trail cam pics. He explained where his stand is in the same area...turns out his stand is about 200 yards from mine!


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## WUD DUK (Nov 3, 2009)

I think here in Missouri they can do as they please. Public land or Private. Having a hunt spoiled can really suck but they are just doing their job. I do think it will be more respectful to wait for you at your vehicle though. Some agents are pretty cool guys, some others ,not so.


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## brutus82 (Jun 9, 2006)

Sure wish they'd check more guys around here! Ive only been checked once and that was about 17 years ago while **** hunting.


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## miklacic (Sep 17, 2013)

My father and I were walking down the road a few years ago and a couple of Wardens spotted us and stopped to check us out during shotgun season. We each are carrying shotguns and our concealed handguns as he rolls down the window and starts chatting us up. Almost immediately my father proceeds to tell the officer that he has a concealed carry permit and he is armed (Ohio is a notify state). The officer gives him a kind of strange look as he looks at the shotgun and says "I can see that you are armed." 

It was actually the second time I've been queried by a warden, once fishing and once hunting. Must be my sketchy appearance.


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## HoytTough (Aug 19, 2010)

MiamiValleyYoop said:


> Game wardens can come on private and public land for any reason they want. In any state, it's part of the federal game laws.


Yup. What he said. Those boys can do about anything they want


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

I have to say growing up in PA. I have been checked several times by wardens and every time it seemed they were made when their was nothing to right me up for and I grew to not like them much. However I have had run ins with wardens in Oregon, and Alaska with a much different response. They have always seem to want to help me out with info. that has ALWAYS paid off for me in a big way. I have nothing but much respect for those wardens in Alaska for the great job they do. I guess there are always going to be good and bad in every role in life.


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## WUD DUK (Nov 3, 2009)

There's a TON of poaching around here. It's pathetic! I've found several buck carcass' with the heads cut off over the years. I'd love to catch some of these idiots and turn their azzes in. The state can keep the reward money!!


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

MiamiValleyYoop said:


> Game wardens can come on private and public land for any reason they want. In any state, it's part of the federal game laws.


You are wrong.


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## AllOut (Jan 23, 2009)

You're hunting, they know it. Thats probable cause to them lol
You "might" be doing something illegal.
No different than a cop pulling you over cause he saw you leave a bar and thought you "might" have been drinking. Even though you were driving just fine. Or road blocks...


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## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

It may be legal, but it is not their job to harass hunters while they are in the woods hunting.


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## WUD DUK (Nov 3, 2009)

I have to agree with Skeptic... Not all states are the same. Each one has it's own rules.


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## rocklock hunter (Jan 3, 2013)

I've been hunting 20+ years and have NEVER been checked. That being said, I don't have a problem with GWs checking hunters but I would think it would be common courtesy to check them on their way out and not interfere with a hunt. Every story I've heard of someone I know being checked was on their way out or at the truck. That's the way it should be unless they have a strong suspision they are breaking the law and need to intervene immediately.


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## widow maker 223 (Sep 7, 2011)

They have a lot of power, more than the state police. they run more on suspicion around here. I have been checked hunting state land for coyotes and many times fishing. Never on private ground while deer hunting. Years ago when i was 14 me and my ol man went to the local bow shop a week before turkey season. The owner is a retired conservation officer. The ol man buys a box call but no license. Few days later i was waiting for the bus and seen a truck parked on the edge of our field. I went and woke the ol man up, he headed out in the woods sat down and started calling and what do you know he called in 2 CO's. They walked up to him didn't say a word and left.


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

They are game wardens & they work in the woods, so basically, you'll be hunting, fishing in or around woods when you see them.
We had a local known to be a poacher but never caught. One day he was seen shooting a deer out of season from a gravel road & the person seeing it called it in with a plate #. Poacher didn't get to retrive Deer as he saw someone had seen him & took off.
Wardens came to his house, made his kids & wife sit in their living room & had him walk through the house with them looking for the weapon (a rifle in a shotgun only state for deer). They went through everything including his freezer. Even though they didn't find the weapon charges were made due to an eye witness. The "supposed violater" requested a jury trial & a date was set. A couple weeks b/4 trial the witness was killed in a farm truck accident & charges were dropped. Locals KNOW this guy is crooked as the day is long & unfortunatly for the true sportsman, a member of P&Y club. Yes, Wardens have power & if SOME didn't do their job, we would all be BI_c_en about that too. They are spread thin in most cases & definatly not an easy job. I've been checked in Ws., Colorado., N.C., Ill., Ark. & never complain-it's their job...


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## clm2112 (Sep 16, 2013)

mn5503 said:


> I hunt next to an airport, it's crazy loud some days. It seems like the last hour of light is the best time for student pilot "touch and goes" and treestand fly overs.


It is. Dawn and dusk are the least turbulent times of the day. For a low-time student in a 152, that means lots of touch and goes with no crosswinds to contend with. (I remember those days 

I've yet to see a Game Warden on the job. I know they are out there, but where, who knows. Not that I object to them walking around. Better that they do it in pairs, since the use of public land for illegal drug activity is on the upswing.


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## stork64 (Sep 11, 2010)

I would probably get pretty annoyed when it happened, because I don't get nearly as much time to hunt as I would like. But in the long run it is a good thing to have them around, and familiar with your land for when there is an issue (poachers, tresspassing, dogs running, etc). If I have to get bothered once a decade to help keep the rule breakers in check and just a bit more honest, I'm fine with that.


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## Muzzy61 (Oct 22, 2007)

Certainly we have a game warden on this board that can answer this question, don't we....


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## trkytrack2 (Aug 25, 2009)

Skeptic said:


> I do believe if your on private property they are supposed to still have probable cause to be there. They can't just come walking in for no reason. Either someone called them or they saw something up believe something was up.


Don't know where you live but in Colorado they have more power than any other police office. They can enter any piece of property or home, search any person, automobile, truck and stop and detain any person without your permission or a warrant, anytime day or night.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


It's call doing their job. They need probable cause to do their job?


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## spencer12 (Dec 21, 2009)

In my 15 years of hunting, ive been checked once. I wasnt deer hunting, but dove hunting. Im sure it would be frustrating having your hunt ruined, but they are doing their jobs.


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## deerslayer261 (Jan 8, 2008)

I've had a game warden come on my property during the middle of the rut. Said he had a tip I was baiting. I was very nice showed him around being 100% legal I had no problems. The neighbor doesn't like me cause I kicked him off the property for trespassing (driving through my food plots with a utv.) The only problem with this is he is the local sheriffs so I always am have my plates ran and game wardens checking in. With them around I don't have to worry as much about other people trespassing 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

I don't have a problem with law enforcement. They have a job to do. 

However, unless there was probable cause, if I were up in my stand and a game warden came walking up and demanded I climb down, I'd be pissed and I'd darn sure let him know it too. 

The may have the right to check on hunters, and I have no problems with that, but IMO they don't have the right to ruin a persons hunt. They should check on us on the way in or out, or at our vehicle. 

My .02


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## tim_puckett87 (Aug 19, 2012)

In va they can definitely come on private or public land and check you without probable cause. They have more authority than the state police and often times are called to houses by the state police to do searches because a game warden can perform a search on a residence without a search warrant. I've been checked many times hunting and have plain clothed wardens fish beside of me in trout streams and then after I caught a few check me and keep fishin.


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## mt_elkhunter (Feb 28, 2010)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


I heard if Im driving and a Highway patrol pulls me over while he is in full uniform, and I prove it via picture I can get him fired for driver harassment.


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## archerdad (Oct 17, 2002)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


public or private land?


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## sinko (Dec 1, 2004)

Just be glad it was September and not November. That said hunt legal and you will in all likelihood not have anymore contact with them other than a casual wave and maybe get your license checked again in the years ahead.

BTW here in OK I've never known of them to go strolling through the woods but they sure might be waiting on you at the truck.


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## trkytrack2 (Aug 25, 2009)

There are three or four southern gentlemen who just got busted in Colorado for using poison arrows to kill big game. They have archery hunted every year for twenty years, in the same camp, same place and have killed lots of animals with poison arrows and have never been checked by a game warden. One of them used the excuse that everyone back home uses poison arrows, why not here?


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## trkytrack2 (Aug 25, 2009)

mt_elkhunter said:


> I heard if Im driving and a Highway patrol pulls me over while he is in full uniform, and I prove it via picture I can get him fired for driver harassment.


Where did you hear that? Tell that one to the judge.


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

I always open with, "Nice to see you guys around." It's rare.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


Another internet truism, lol.


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## OctoberAssassin (Sep 3, 2013)

tyepsu said:


> Unfortunately it is legal in most states even without probable cause. I have a few pieces of land that I have received permission to hunt and the landowners have told the game wardens to stay the hell away. Legally, they can still come back; however I think some of the wardens have stayed away just to keep the peace. Some things sound good on paper, but when it comes to real world application do not turn out as well as intended. I know it varies from state to state also. I have heard the Wardens in Ohio are friendly and helpful. Here in PA most WCO think because they have a badge they are some type of [email protected] and most assume every hunter they come into contact with is guilty. I have no issue with them going after poachers, tresspassers (they can't in PA... only local or state law enforcement can do this unless another game law violation is being committed) if they have evidence a violation is taking place. I do have issue when they simply see what appears to be a hunters vehicle parked somewhere and they start walking all over private land looking for who they assume must be in violation of game laws. They actually have more power (Example: don't need a warrant) than state and local law enforcement. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."


I also used to live in PA what a nightmare department that was I wont even begin to tell you the how bad they are at their job. As corrupt as it gets have never heard of them helping anyone and can recall many stories of falsely accusing and fining people just downright harassing law abiding hunters. I have hunted many other states and they have issues as well but overall most game officers I'v met in other states have been helpful and even giving me advice where to hunt, taking time to improve my overall experience. Most states if you are doing what you are suppose to encounters with game officers are a pleasant experience in Pa its a powertrip for the guy wearing the badge to see if he can assert himself and or fine you.


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## stork64 (Sep 11, 2010)

I use Ozonics and Nose Jammer, with my smoked out HECS suit and ghost blind. There is no way the game warden could even find me. He'd walk right by never knowing I was even there. Then I would Krunch him back by again just for the laugh.


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## pinski79 (Jan 23, 2010)

Game wardens don't bother me. They are just doing their job, and I'm not a criminal


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## LiteSpeed1 (May 21, 2005)

Skeptic said:


> You are wrong.


From the Department of Environmental Protection:

Conservation officers, special conservation officers, and patrolmen *may search private property* if they have probable cause to suspect violations or possible violations of state and federal fish and game laws and regulations. They may stop and board vessels in state waters for several purposes, including searching the vessel if they have probable cause to believe a law, rule, or regulation relating to boating or water pollution is being violated.

Why? Because it is their job to protect the wildlife of a state, which belongs to all the inhabitants of said state whether they are hunters or not.


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## Planetcat (Jun 28, 2008)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


I would say you sitting in a tree stand is probable cause. Private or public land? Not sure it makes a difference anyways.


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## AllOut (Jan 23, 2009)

Muzzy61 said:


> Certainly we have a game warden on this board that can answer this question, don't we....


You know we do!
But for some reason they never seem to want to come out and play, or ever admit to being a GW.


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## BowtechKicks (May 11, 2007)

Some states that's legal even if it's private property, but here in Maine to go on private land they need probable cause. They even took the ability to do random stops of snow machines to check for OUI. Have to have probable cause now. I can't remember exactly how they made it, but basicly tied their hands cause some representative got busted by a random stop.


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## outback1 (Aug 12, 2005)

UH OH! another deer hunt being messed up! just dont take the advice of those on the (Dogs Messed Up My HUNT Thread) 
they get hopping mad when there deer hunt gets disturbed,


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

LiteSpeed1 said:


> From the Department of Environmental Protection:
> 
> Conservation officers, special conservation officers, and patrolmen *may search private property* if they have probable cause to suspect violations or possible violations of state and federal fish and game laws and regulations. They may stop and board vessels in state waters for several purposes, including searching the vessel if they have probable cause to believe a law, rule, or regulation relating to boating or water pollution is being violated.
> 
> Why? Because it is their job to protect the wildlife of a state, which belongs to all the inhabitants of said state whether they are hunters or not.


Lol, please note the few words after your highlight! PROBABLE CAUSE just like I was saying :doh:


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## frostmas15 (Nov 26, 2012)

The way I see it is when you sign your license that you go buy, you are agreeing to obey all game laws and give the wardens the ability to check you. Its their job and if you don't have anything to hide than whats the problem. If there was a 200+ buck standing broadside in front of me at full draw and they walked in then id be mad, but im thankful they are around. We have guys that shoot deer by me with .22s during bow season. Kinda makes a guy who goes out months before season, preps, and hunts legally angry when some guy walks in the woods for the first time on opening day and drops a nice buck with a .22 and then tags it with his bow tag.


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## Treehugger98 (Nov 9, 2012)

Caught game warden trespassing. how about them apples! He never came back either .


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

trkytrack2 said:


> Don't know where you live but in Colorado they have more power than any other police office. They can enter any piece of property or home, search any person, automobile, truck and stop and detain any person without your permission or a warrant, anytime day or night.


They still need PROBABLE CAUSE!!! They can't just do it to mess with you.


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## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


simply bunk, its his job to be out there anywhere he may find people,, it does not even come close to hunter harassment....


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

I have been checked out while frog gigging my own property before. The 3 flashlights around the pond could be seen from the road and that constituted probable cause. Had he only seen a truck parked there he would not have had probable cause. I gave him no flack.


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## Dukslayer26 (Sep 8, 2012)

Skeptic said:


> I do believe if your on private property they are supposed to still have probable cause to be there. They can't just come walking in for no reason. Either someone called them or they saw something up believe something was up.


In CA they don't need probable cause. They can walk onto anyone's land at any time. They have more jurisdiction then anyone. It's a good thing they are out there! Unless they spooked a giant deer you were about to shoot , be grateful!


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## fxdwgkd (Oct 6, 2009)

I would be pissed, I don't have many days to hunt. I understand they have a job to do but any time a c/o wanted to check me they waited at my truck. I think most are concious of the fact that most people do not have a lot of time to hunt. I think they may have been tipped to something going on and were possibly following up on a tip or call.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

LiteSpeed1 said:


> From the Department of Environmental Protection:
> 
> Conservation officers, special conservation officers, and patrolmen *may search private property* if they have probable cause to suspect violations or possible violations of state and federal fish and game laws and regulations. They may stop and board vessels in state waters for several purposes, including searching the vessel if they have probable cause to believe a law, rule, or regulation relating to boating or water pollution is being violated.
> 
> Why? Because it is their job to protect the wildlife of a state, which belongs to all the inhabitants of said state whether they are hunters or not.


I believe this to be federal correct? If that's the case then the officers in every state need probable cause guys!


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Skeptic said:


> I believe this to be federal correct? If that's the case then the officers in every state need probable cause guys!


I think you are only kidding yourself. If you are hunting you may not have your license. Thats all the probable cause they need. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

As said in "escanaba in da moonlight" in michigan, during deer season, the dnr has more power than god. Lol

sent from my LG Escape.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

Kb83 said:


> I think you are only kidding yourself. If you are hunting you may not have your license. Thats all the probable cause they need.
> 
> sent from my LG Escape.


I'm not kidding anyone. Part of this conversation involved them coming into your house. They can't do that without a DARN good reason, otherwise they will probably wind up in jail. And yes, them seeing you hunting constitutes probable cause to check if you are licensed, if they SEE you are hunting. If they see your truck parked on the side of your driveway they can't just jump to the conclusion you are hunting and come trampling through the woods


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## AllOut (Jan 23, 2009)

Skeptic said:


> I'm not kidding anyone. Part of this conversation involved them coming into your house. They can't do that without a DARN good reason, otherwise they will probably wind up in jail. And yes, them seeing you hunting constitutes probable cause to check if you are licensed, if they SEE you are hunting. If they see your truck parked on the side of your driveway they can't just jump to the conclusion you are hunting and come trampling through the woods



Ok Skeptic...
What constitutes "probable cause"?
Cause, "I thought" from LEO can be probable cause. Remember, the get to error on the side of caution.


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## Elkwithastick (Jul 9, 2012)

I hunt all over and live in Northwest Il. A game warden in Illinois has easement anywhere anyplace in Il. They can walk into ur house unannounced if the feel you have illegal game in the freezer. The local warden here Ron Palumbo abuses these rights horribly. A small pro shop in Coleta was a check station. Two young guys came in with a doe to check. Palumbo pulled in searched the truck, then after they replaced everything he did it again. He turned to the shop owner Larry after Larry asked why twice and he responded"because I can". Our old area warden was cool, this guy is not. My uncles a state trooper a master sgt, he said Palumbos had numerous complaints to no avail. My ex- uncle in law is a Fedral fish and game warden....the fed law is very similar. Most of these laws were enacted within 20 yrs of Teddy Roosevelt's term. To protect wildlife. Most wardens follow the law, and do not abuse it. 
But, they can walk in and on anywhere anytime without a warrant. It's a completely different animal.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

A little different but a few years back a CO opened the door on a fish house and busted a guy for smoking pot in his fish house.
He took it to court saying, he should have as much right to privacy and illegal search entry in his fish house as his home!
He won and now CO's have to knock and announce themselves. And you don't have to allow them entry.


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## tim_puckett87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Probable cause is a joke any reason can be probable cause. Guns and animals in your house are the main reason. All they have to say is the animal is suspected of being abused or there is a possibility you are using a gun unlawfully that's really all it takes. When you just have to have an inclination instead of evidence as you do for a search warrant virtually anything can be turned into probable cause. That's how bit is here anyways.


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

How did they know where your stand was.? I know their job is to enforce the rules but I'd be pissed if they came walking up to my stand on private land without cause


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## rackfreak210 (Feb 14, 2011)

Cjclemens said:


> During firearm season, our CPO's fly a plane all over the place. I wish they would just walk out in the timber and do checks, because that stupid plane is ridiculously loud and they fly really low. They might as well ride a Harley with straight pipes through the timber, at that point.


Exactly!


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

So those that say this is the way it should be ..Let me ask you how would you feel if the police just came up and walked into your garage then your house serching for something to arrest you over , and asked you questions anytime they want to ???

Actually the COs /Wardens have to see or witness a suspicious act that they feel is illegal and or have a complaint from a land owner or whitness when a hunter is on private property to come in and question or search . They are subject to the same search and seizure laws that all LEOs are in this nation .Do a little research before you guys post things like" they can just go where ever they want and do what ever they like whenever they want" and the like.It simply is not true and don't you but those stories either .One exception to this is public ground hunters they are on GOV ground and are subject to CO approach at any time.


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## LiteSpeed1 (May 21, 2005)

Skeptic said:


> I believe this to be federal correct? If that's the case then the officers in every state need probable cause guys!


They can always say they are acting on a tip of illegal activities on your property. Whether the "tip" is legit or not, it would probably be your burden to prove they didn't receive a tip.


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

LiteSpeed1 said:


> They can always say they are acting on a tip of illegal activities on your property. Whether the "tip" is legit or not, I would probably be your burden to prove they didn't receive a tip.


Bingo


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## Grouper trooper (Jul 14, 2012)

Im a Game Warden. In my state the law says I can trespass on any land in performance of official duties. There are a few others relating to not needing warrants to search certain structures/ conveyances etc. It is MUCH different then regular LE, many lawyers do not understand the given authority ( they rarely come across it)

There is also a lot of case law on both state and Federal levels related to
Conservation LE. Fishing/ Hunting are permitted/licensed activities- inspections - not searches are used to check for compliance with the rules and they have a lower requirement of "suspicion". As always your state may vary- but Id imagine a good many are similar...


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## AllOut (Jan 23, 2009)

Grouper trooper said:


> Im a Game Warden. In my state the law says I can trespass on any land in performance of official duties. There are a few others relating to not needing warrants to search certain structures/ conveyances etc. It is MUCH different then regular LE, many lawyers do not understand the given authority ( they rarely come across it)
> 
> There is also a lot of case law on both state and Federal levels related to
> Conservation LE. Fishing/ Hunting are permitted/licensed activities- inspections - not searches are used to check for compliance with the rules and they have a lower requirement of "suspicion". As always your state may vary- but Id imagine a good many are similar...


Thank You!
GW Finally stepped up to set us straight lol


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

OctoberAssassin said:


> I also used to live in PA what a nightmare department that was I wont even begin to tell you the how bad they are at their job. As corrupt as it gets have never heard of them helping anyone and can recall many stories of falsely accusing and fining people just downright harassing law abiding hunters. I have hunted many other states and they have issues as well but overall most game officers I'v met in other states have been helpful and even giving me advice where to hunt, taking time to improve my overall experience. Most states if you are doing what you are suppose to encounters with game officers are a pleasant experience in Pa its a powertrip for the guy wearing the badge to see if he can assert himself and or fine you.




Wow. Lived in Pennsylvania my entire life, spend* alot* of time in the field. Never even seen a WCO let alone the non-stop 'corrupt' harassment that some claim. I suspect one bad experience, whether deserved or not, fuels most of these horror stories.
The PGC is so horribly understaffed, I think you have to seek a warden out. Wish there were more. Far too many unethical, quasi-criminal "hunters" in this state.


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## smackey (Sep 16, 2012)

Perfectly legal. Kind of a d/ck move to check you at your stand, but they have every right to enter private property. I've had them flair geese we were working by walking into our decoys...


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## sbarbe02 (Apr 2, 2011)

If a warden is in uniform he's not allowed to check you? That's the dumbest thing I have heard.... It's their job!!!!! In our area if they come to you it's for reason. Someone prolly called them on you. It's been my experience they don't just walk around trying to find people in their stand to harass. My question is what did he write the ticket for?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Possum cops......:lol:


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## Greendeem (Jan 13, 2007)

vtbowhntr said:


> actually a warden can not go on private property without landowner consent or a search warrant to check stands or hunters, they need to follow the same rules as all law enforcement. If I was public land then yes they can. That is the law, they have a tough job and I like to see they are doing it, but they must follow the laws also. I asked a friend about this who is a lawyer, he provided me with the info.


Your lawyer friend is wrong. In case law it is referred to as the open field doctrine. Officers can go onto private property to check hunters and enforce laws without a warrant.


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## STKA (Apr 4, 2011)

I wish I could get them to hang out on the land I hunt. I had two out looking at my buck buck the coyotes ate last year. I now have both their business cards on me while hunting so I can bypass dispatch and have trespassers picked up asap.


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## Muliefever (Jun 2, 2009)

Probable cause isn't needed first off. it happens. Better them being their then not....


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## Muliefever (Jun 2, 2009)

Greendeem said:


> Your lawyer friend is wrong. In case law it is referred to as the open field doctrine. Officers can go onto private property to check hunters and enforce laws without a warrant.


True.. This is a correct statement.....


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## Johnson230 (Sep 20, 2007)

Mr. Man said:


> Lol, how old are you, 15? Yes, it's legal. Yes, it's their job. Quit crying.


Exactly what I was thinking.


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## mtswampfox (Jan 13, 2010)

they walked in our camp one time . even approached one hunter up in his stand , ordered him out , checked his license then handed him his keys the officer had removed from his 4 wheeler. and oh yea gave him a warning for not having his orange vest on .......this was like 5 officers spread out on our lease. they missed me somehow......


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## youngnick (Sep 19, 2012)

Personally I like seeing game wardens out because im always legal and they are doing there job. And 90% of the time you can bs with them and let you know what they have seen earlier.


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

He could have waited for you at your truck and not spoiled your hunt, I've had that happen. They have made me escort them back to my stand after dark.


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## jayson2984 (Oct 13, 2010)

I would love to see game wardens' but in 20 years never a one. I also hunt public exclusively and one would never spend 2 hours to walk in on me but I can tell you this if anyone walked in a setup I waited weeks for the right wind etc etc in wouldn't be happy.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## Bowbusters (Aug 8, 2013)

spaz 85 said:


> Well I would assume it would differ from state to state but it is legal in a lot of areas even on private land


I have personal experience with this a number of years ago I was hunting a small 180 acre pine tree farm. I was sitting in my stand 30 feet up a mature pine and hunting over corn (which is legal) the Wildlife officer just came over the locked fence and was waiting for me when I came out of the woods for lunch. He wanted to check my hunting license and tags, he then asked to see my tree stand and feeder for some unknown reason. I met him at the local truck stop a few days later while heading to my hunting site, after getting coffee I saw him sitting down so I went over and we got to talking and I asked him why he wanted to check me and my hunt site out. He told me that there was a complaint of someone hunting Turkey over bait and he got my hunt spot with another farm about 1 mile down the road mixed up. He told me he arrested hunter there a few days later for taking Turkey over corn which is illegal here, you have to be hunting at east 100 meters from a feed or bait site to shoot a turkey.


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

jayson2984 said:


> I would love to see game wardens' but in 20 years never a one.


They make their presence felt here though they are grossly undermanned. Their best opportunity for a pinch is catching a guy twilight hunting and once they commit the last hour of daylight staking out a vehicle, they will pinch you if they can.


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

I agree with the OP. Total BS. You get as scent free as possible. Sneak to your stand in order to not spook any game. And then you have a french fry smelling game warden that probably has gasoline fumes on his boots walking to your stand to check you without any reason what so ever. Disrespectful is the term I would use. If he wanted to check on your license he could have got you when you came out. No need to ruin someones hunt.


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## Charman03 (Jul 31, 2006)

How would you guys feel if you had the biggest deer you've ever seen patterned, and during the hunt some warden comes strolling up through the bedding area and runs that buck right outta your life. At least around here most are along a road or at the parking lot or a main trail.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

That same thing happend to two men on our lease,they drove three and a half hours to gettherebefore daylight open day of muzzle load season on a nine hundred acre farm 72 years old the other a lawyer.thirty min after daylight game warden walks up under the 72 year old and ask for his license,both men fully legal,game warden was a jerk.these men was only hunting that one day then driving home in the after noon. I personally would have loved to cut there tires and left them stranded .they did the same thing the year before that. To two others.this farm is way out not near any houses.game warden in this county are jerks .


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## Krypt Keeper (Oct 10, 2007)

smackey said:


> Perfectly legal. Kind of a d/ck move to check you at your stand, but they have every right to enter private property. I've had them flair geese we were working by walking into our decoys...


tell him to climb on up and check me. 

i have no problems with them, wish there were more of them going after the idiots standing in the roads with guns and running dogs. Last Game Warden I spoke to was called for a deer that had been hit, brrother in law shot her to put her out of misery, loaded her up in the truck and I shared some deer jerky I had a while we chatted.


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## sampsta (Apr 3, 2011)

In Maine and mass if you are out hunting they can check. From what I've seen they wait for you to come out of the woods.

Assuming no one has filed a complaint then they come a knocking


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## Bowbusters (Aug 8, 2013)

I personally have no issues with Game Wardens, I enjoy seeing them out and about. They have a tough job and they get my respect much more so than local LEO. Most local LEO have a god complex and think they are so much better than every one else and let you know it. Not all LEO mind you, but most in my experience do. Most Game wardens have more powers than many LEO, but they do not flaunt it or abuse their power unless it is called for. Hats off to all you Game Wardens keep up the good work.


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## wipy (Oct 11, 2011)

dnr>god...... at least thats how they act.
I had 2 years ago a co walk on my private land to check me on nov 9 when the rut was kicking. I checked out and was doing nothing wrong but i was not very happy with him and i let him know my mind about it. I pay taxes and own the land and all year stay scent free and all the crap he and comes walking in just to check me it was just ridicoluos imo. therefore i am not a big fan of wi dnr they pretty much do what they want and when they want they are a joke. But yet i got 2 cameras stolen the year before and called them to tell them about it and where the person tracks went in the snow and the warden never even returned my call.... WI dnr for you.


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## Edtred (Jul 24, 2013)

I would have no problem. Just doing their job. Always good to know they are making sure all are hunting fair. Buddy had one knock on his ground blind while hunting.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Checking hunters in stands is bs.


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

sampsta said:


> In Maine and mass if you are out hunting they can check. From what I've seen they wait for you to come out of the woods.
> 
> Assuming no one has filed a complaint then they come a knocking


That's been my experience. I've never had a negative encounter with wardens, not once. Most have been very pleasant.


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Neighbor of ours got busted hunting turkey over bait a few years ago. He blamed it on a family friend who swears he didn't call DNR. Also friend got in trouble with DNR for just driving across the street to our farmhouse with a deer in the bed of the truck because he didn't have a pen and ziptie to tag the deer. I hear from them the DNR officer from up where I hunt is a major d-bag.


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## bhunterED (Mar 14, 2012)

I grew up with the game warden residing at the end of my rd and saw him plenty of times as I walked up the rd with a turkey over my shoulder or carrying my gun or bow and never had a problem as everything was done legally. Have also ran into them on state land roadways but never in the woods. I've heard in NY they have more authority than state or any other local law enforcement and don't need a warrant to search anything including your house or vehicle. The only thing I have ever witnessed that upset me was on a back rd I found about 10 carcasses some with just back straps cut out and others with just the heads missing, when the warden got there he just looked at me and said week what do you want me to do about it?


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> Neighbor of ours got busted hunting turkey over bait a few years ago. He blamed it on a family friend who swears he didn't call DNR. Also friend got in trouble with DNR for just driving across the street to our farmhouse with a deer in the bed of the truck because he didn't have a pen and ziptie to tag the deer. I hear from them the DNR officer from up where I hunt is a major d-bag.


come on....everybody knows as soon as you load a deer into a vehicle it better be tagged or you got big problems!
I knew that on my first deer hunt when I was 12!


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## stickin em' (Apr 22, 2012)

warden walked up on me on public land one time. walked within 30 yards of me and never seen me up in the tree. i didn't advertise I was there and he kept on going. Needless to say i didn't see any deer that evening because he walked through where i thought the deer would come thru. Part of it I guess.


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## KSHammers1 (Oct 9, 2009)

fxdwgkd said:


> I would be pissed, I don't have many days to hunt. I understand they have a job to do but any time a c/o wanted to check me they waited at my truck. I think most are concious of the fact that most people do not have a lot of time to hunt. I think they may have been tipped to something going on and were possibly following up on a tip or call.


This!


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## Bowbusters (Aug 8, 2013)

redruff said:


> come on....everybody knows as soon as you load a deer into a vehicle it better be tagged or you got big problems!
> I knew that on my first deer hunt when I was 12!


No tags required here in Florida but you have to buy a deer stamp and a bow stamp plus your hunting license just to go hunt opening day.


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## MarshBuck89 (Jul 5, 2011)

I have seen and been checked by wardens plenty of times (only mid-day and afternoon hunts tho, never morning. Been checked while after: duck, goose, turkey, deer, etc.). Every time they have stayed a good distance away once I noticed them as long as I acknowledged them and they have waited near/at the truck because they know Im coming back to it and have always had a good relationship with them and they respect me as I do to them. We need more game wardens IMHO. They were just doing their job.


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## blueheeler101 (Jul 17, 2013)

vtbowhntr said:


> actually a warden can not go on private property without landowner consent or a search warrant to check stands or hunters, they need to follow the same rules as all law enforcement. If I was public land then yes they can. That is the law, they have a tough job and I like to see they are doing it, but they must follow the laws also. I asked a friend about this who is a lawyer, he provided me with the info.


That's wrong the Game Warden is a federal officer they need no warrant to do a search on any property public or private. That's why the local police always take a GW with them when they do a drug bust or a raid on private property it gets them through the red tape of the search without a search warrant.


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## Jfriesner (Nov 26, 2009)

It may be case law and legal for CO's to trespass on private land but I know that our CO's around me wont do it unless they have PC. I think for a lot of officers, especially around here, its an officer safety issue. I know if I was an officer I would very hesitant to be wandering around most peoples property unless I had good reason to be there. It also doesn't help relations between private land owners and the LE community for them to be trespassing without any kind of PC, probable cause. I understand people have issues with trespassers but having CO's randomly wandering around peoples private property is a bad idea imo. I understand the legal argument that they are "checking" on the states possessions, the wildlife, that happen to be on private land. But that speaks more to the deterioration of private land ownership then anything. A better system is thing like TIP in Mn, turn in poachers, where people can call in and give anonymous information on poachers. The chances of a CO randomly discovering a poacher while trespassing on your land is extremely rare.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


Dude...........your camo SUCKS! Quit your whining and go get yourself some modern camo and think about stand placement.


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## texglocker (Dec 1, 2011)

*Tpwd*

Texas Parks and Wildlife code says anywhere fish or wild game are known to range or stray which includes almost everywhere private or public. 

Sec. 12.103. ENTERING LAND; USE OF INFORMATION OBTAINED BY ENTRY; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research regarding wild game or fish, an authorized employee of the department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish are known to range or stray. No action may be sustained against an employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water when acting in his official capacity as described by this subsection.


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## Bnbfishin (Apr 25, 2004)

How bout walking in on a game warden? I was hunting some public land a couple of years back. The trails were sand and you can follow footprints fairly easily. I had used this trail to do some scouting and then used it again when getting to the spots I was going to hunt. I get in there early the one morning and get set up about 20 yards in the jack pines. Just off of where the sand road splits. It's paper mill land that is open to public hunting and the mills use the "roads" as access to cut timber. I watch a warden dressed in his uniform come to the split and take his binos out and look down both ways. He then looks back down at the footprints in the sand and was trying to figure out where they led to. He turned around and looked back towards where his and my truck were parked. I walked out and asked him what he wanted :chortle: Moss and pine needles on the ground so I didn't make any noise. He was a little shocked at first but soon we were talking turkey hunting strategies and what he has seen while driving around. It's not always a bad thing when the warden comes to check on you.


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

redruff said:


> come on....everybody knows as soon as you load a deer into a vehicle it better be tagged or you got big problems!
> I knew that on my first deer hunt when I was 12!


He literally just had to cross the street...But I tag mine immediately in the field.


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

OP - there is nothing wrong with a wildlife officer walking in on you when your hunting, that's their job. 

Now, what's really wrong is when the same DNR officer walking in on you 5 days in a row, all at prime time during the rut and asking all the same questions when he finds absolutely nothing wrong on any of the 5 occasions. That's just a cop being a jag off and harassing a hunter who took his hunting spot. Trust me, I know b/c that's what happened to me.


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## jayson2984 (Oct 13, 2010)

dblungem said:


> OP - there is nothing wrong with a wildlife officer walking in on you when your hunting, that's their job.
> 
> Now, what's really wrong is when the same DNR officer walking in on you 5 days in a row, all at prime time during the rut and asking all the same questions when he finds absolutely nothing wrong on any of the 5 occasions. That's just a cop being a jag off and harassing a hunter who took his hunting spot.


Yes there is! You don't follow a hunter to his tree stand. That's horse sh#¶. If the report is of baiting watch the area. Other than wait at the vehicle. Anything else is asking for trouble.

BTW it is not "their job" to walk in on you. That would be like a cop coming to the bar and checking your ID.:banghead: 

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## stickemdeep (Aug 16, 2013)

I have no problem with a warden checking me but it just seems kind of sorry to walk in on a guy while hunting spreading scent around and spooking all the game off , that would tick me off for sure . here at home I have came to my truck to find a officer waiting on me a few times but never had one go stomping through the woods looking for me . You would think they would want a reason to walk in on a hunter maybe like a gun shot during bow season or something like that . That's just my feelings on the matter .....


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## Speedykills (Apr 16, 2010)

MiamiValleyYoop said:


> Game wardens can come on private and public land for any reason they want. In any state, it's part of the federal game laws.


I know they use them alot stopping trucks on I-40 they do not need a warrant to search,same on private land they can check your freezer for untagged game without warrant...............


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

jayson2984 said:


> Yes there is! You don't follow a hunter to his tree stand. That's horse sh#¶. If the report is of baiting watch the area. Other than wait at the vehicle. Anything else is asking for trouble.
> 
> BTW it is not "their job" to walk in on you. That would be like a cop coming to the bar and checking your ID.:banghead:
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


You cannot be serious. That's like saying a cop can't pull you over for a moving violation - what's he supposed to do, wait until you park your car and get out? Saying they cannot perform checks in the field is comical. Funny actually.


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## bgriff008 (Dec 28, 2011)

Skeptic said:


> I do believe if your on private property they are supposed to still have probable cause to be there. They can't just come walking in for no reason. Either someone called them or they saw something up believe something was up.


They dont need probable cause. But I agree, if they walk onto private property, in most cases they are checking up on a call they got. My Brother inlaws, father inlaw, was a game warden and worked for the DNR in upper michigan. Most private property he investigated was due to being called. Otherwise they would hit public land when they could. Again, most investigations were from calls and leads. Ya it would stink to have them walk in on your hunt, but there isnt anything any one of us can do. Except have your proper licenses and permission slips signed.


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## waterman1148 (Sep 14, 2013)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


Dumbest thing I've ever heard.


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## bowman29092 (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't have many days to hunt so it's a little frustrating when they walk up under you. With that said, I haven't been checked at all as of yet. I've hunted both public and private land all my life.


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## jayson2984 (Oct 13, 2010)

dblungem said:


> You cannot be serious. That's like saying a cop can't pull you over for a moving violation - what's he supposed to do, wait until you park your car and get out? Saying they cannot perform checks in the field is comical. Funny actually.


What's my violation? The cop pulled me over for a moving VIOLATION..... Why are you at my stand????? You totaly just went against your own argument:thumbdown:


In the field and at my tree stand stalking me are 2 way different things. Glad common sense makes you laugh
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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

jayson2984 said:


> What's my violation!!!!!!!!!!! Why are you at my stand????? You totaly just went against your own argument:thumbdown:
> 
> 
> In the field and at my tree stand stalking me are 2 way different things. Glad common sense makes you laugh
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


Lol. I would suggest you lobby to change the game laws to suit your views. Just realize that every state in the nation allows their officers to perform field checks as they wish, whenever they want and wherever they want. I would stop hunting if you feel this sore about it.


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## 50bowhunter (Aug 17, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> I know not every state has the same laws. I fully expect that game wardens can do as they please to certain extent on public property.
> In Va. I'm not so sure game wardens can just stroll on to private property that is posted without probable cause or reason to think laws are being broken. That would be similar to the police searching your back yard without cause to do so. However, I would love for a game warden to walk our property lines on a regular basis during gun season!


The only thing they need is reasonable suspicion to think hunting activity is taking place on the property, legal or illegal.


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## jayson2984 (Oct 13, 2010)

dblungem said:


> Lol. I would suggest you lobby to change the game laws to suit your views. Just realize that every state in the nation allows their officers to perform field checks as they wish, whenever they want and wherever they want. I would stop hunting if you feel this sore about it.


Don't need any suggestions from you. Any warden who followed me in to the woods to find me in my stand would have a polite interaction as well as some explaining to do. I don't care what rights they have or don't have. I want an explanation of why I am being followed through state forest. Every state in the nation does not allow officers to do what they wish, dang if a female office was there she could frisk me, 
You are delusional. I hope they catch every poaching, baiting, pos out there, but do it at the truck or during entry not at my stand after you stalked me weirdo.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

jayson2984 said:


> Don't need any suggestions from you. Any warden who followed me in to the woods to find me in my stand would have a polite interaction as well as some explaining to do. I don't care what rights they have or don't have. I want an explanation of why I am being followed through state forest. Every state in the nation does not allow officers to do what they wish, dang if a female office was there she could frisk me,
> You are delusional. I hope they catch every poaching, baiting, pos out there, but do it at the truck or during entry not at my stand after you stalked me weirdo.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


Call the officers superior and demand answers with the same tone as your using here - see how that works out for ya. 

If they are not allowed to "follow you" watch You or check you at the tree, why are there laws about not having a loaded bow before or after shooting hours? To tag an animal immediately upon kill? To not use a flashlight to take a big game animal? To......?.? According to you, they can't go in the field, so how do you suppose they enforce these and hundreds of other filed violations / laws? 

I do agree that I hope they catch all poachers - but how do you suppose they do that when they are sitting at the poachers truck?


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

jayson2984 said:


> Don't need any suggestions from you. Any warden who followed me in to the woods to find me in my stand would have a polite interaction as well as some explaining to do. I don't care what rights they have or don't have. I want an explanation of why I am being followed through state forest. Every state in the nation does not allow officers to do what they wish, dang if a female office was there she could frisk me,
> You are delusional. I hope they catch every poaching, baiting, pos out there, but do it at the truck or during entry not at my stand after you stalked me weirdo.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


State forest? They can absolutely do what ever they wish on state forest land. And unfortunately they aren't going to have much luck catching poachers from their truck. You may not like it but there is not much you can do about it. If you catch one on a power trip and question his actions or give him attitude you may just find yourself getting checked a little more often. I have dealt with some very cool officers. They gave me some tips on hot spots while fishing, had a nice conversation, and really liked them. I have also ran into complete pricks. Your always better being compliant and respectful. And usually the ones you see following people and glassing tree's for stands fall in the second category. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## jayson2984 (Oct 13, 2010)

dblungem said:


> Call the officers superior and demand answers with the same tone as your using here - see how that works out for ya.
> 
> If they are not allowed to "follow you" watch You or check you at the tree, why are there laws about not having a loaded bow before or after shooting hours? To tag an animal immediately upon kill? To not use a flashlight to take a big game animal? To......?.? According to you, they can't go in the field, so how do you suppose they enforce these and hundreds of other filed violations / laws?
> 
> I do agree that I hope they catch all poachers - but how do you suppose they do that when they are sitting at the poachers truck?




Whoa whoa whoa...when did I say they can't?? I said they are aholes if they do. Sure a cop and wild life officers can get away with a lot thats not "right" 

You said they can do it the same as cop stopping you for a moving violation, which is the worst comparison ever. Secondly BC you can do something doesnt mean you should . Tertiary any officer who would follow you to your stand without prior knowledge of an issue has a mental problem and is looking for the guy with his watch set wrong. There are a lot of issues that need tended to without a officer hiking into the woods. Lastly I didn't know my text was coming through in a "tone" so if you think I care about an officer or his supervisoir after I have been stalked like a wounded animal, your still confused and need to adjust you tone assumer.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

Judge: "did you witness jayson placing the bait on the ground around his tree?"
Officer: "no, I had to wait by his truck so I really couldn't tell for sure if it was him or not"
Judge: "jayson, did you place the apples under your tree?"
Jayson: "no, wasnt me"
Judge: "dismissed"

Judge:"did you actually witness jayson using a flashlight mounted on his bow to kill the 7 deer after legal shooting light?"
Officer: "well, no not really. See, I was waiting by his truck because somebody said its now illegal for me to walk in the field and actually observe violators"
Judge: "lol. Ok. Dismissed". 

Starting to see why game officers can make field checks, watch you, follow you? Its pretty logical when you think about it.


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## jayson2984 (Oct 13, 2010)

dblungem said:


> Judge: "did you witness jayson placing the bait on the ground around his tree?"
> Officer: "no, I had to wait by his truck so I really couldn't tell for sure if it was him or not"
> Judge: "jayson, did you place the apples under your tree?"
> Jayson: "no, wasnt me"
> ...


How many million hunters are in PA? You can just pick one and follow them. Gotta have a reason for it to make sense.

End of convo. We disagree. They will never follow me BC it would take them a couple hours anyway plus I am a 100% legal beagle. Good luck this season, and watch your back for the stalking wco

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

Last year on opening day of gun season at 7:45am they DROVE their truck through our neighbors property (cut corn field ) after seeing the old man and son hunting the field edge from 300-400yards away....ruined their hunt, then left and came to my property when they saw my 4 wheeler parked near the barn....never came on my property and it would have gotten ugly if they had...they proceeded to go to next property and drive down a half mile long private dirt road to the next wood lot....douche bags !!!


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## Camp Creeker (Nov 11, 2012)

I would think that they could check you out on the way out after the hunt. I don't agree with ruining a hunt. Some guys only have so many days to get out and hunt. I do agree they do have a job to do and I applaud them for their efforts. Poaching is a real problem in our area and there are no DNR Officers to be found when needed. Especially late at night when most of these infractions occur. Everyone on our lease welcomes them to patrol our area. We have never had one Officer come into the woods looking for hunters and they have never ruined one of our hunts. Most contacts if any that we have had with the DNR are when we are approaching our vehicles after the hunt.


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> He literally just had to cross the street...But I tag mine immediately in the field.


Getting a deer to your place where you can process the deer and not fill out your tag is exactly what they are trying to stop, job well done imo. No offense, but a guy that tries to use the excuse that he doesn't have a pen or a zip tie sounds like the type of DB that might not tag his animal.

Where I'm at you have to fill out the tag as soon as you get possession of the animal, but you don't have to put it on the animal till you get to the road or vehicle. Reason being so you don't "lose" your tag in the woods while you are dragging, but if you see the man, your tag better be completely filled out in your pocket. 

As far as the OP, like everyone is saying, they are doing their job and there was probably a tip that led them to that area. I've seen the trout cops plenty while fishing, never while hunting.


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## ohiobow (Jul 22, 2009)

they use airplanes here find you call it in and here they come most of the time the plane will circle you until they arrive. that being said i have only been stopped a few times and everytime it was by bordering properties where the lo was/is a prick and is buddy buddy with the gw. wanting everyone in the area checked. i can see coming in checking you once but when he sees the same damn truck parked there a week later is it really nessesary to check again?


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## ohiobow (Jul 22, 2009)

Fortyneck said:


> Getting a deer to your place where you can process the deer and not fill out your tag is exactly what they are trying to stop, job well done imo. No offense, but a guy that tries to use the excuse that he doesn't have a pen or a zip tie sounds like the type of DB that might not tag his animal.
> 
> Where I'm at you have to fill out the tag as soon as you get possession of the animal, but you don't have to put it on the animal till you get to the road or vehicle. Reason being so you don't "lose" your tag in the woods while you are dragging, but if you see the man it better be completely filled out in your pocket.
> 
> As far as the OP, like everyone is saying, they are doing their job and there was probably a tip that led them to that area. I've seen the trout cops plenty while fishing, never while hunting.


when i don't have a zip tie i still fill out the tag andeither hold it in my hand while dragging or roll it up and shove it down there ear canal


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)




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## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

I've been checked many times in California by Game Wardens....Have in Oregon here once fishing......But a game Warden has more authority than a Cop........They can even check your Freezer...My Dad had his Freezer Checked, Tags for the Deer in the Freezer.....Also they can write you a ticket if there in Plain Clothes...My Uncle Ernie many years ago was fly fishing A stream west of Red Bluff California, with over his limit of Brook Trout in his Creel....A fisherman approached him in plain clothes fishing the same stream....The guy asked my uncle Ernie you had any luck, Ernie says yeah got about 20 or 30 or whatever it was, the limit was 10...The Guy pulled out his Badge, said I'm a Game Warden and fined him right on the spot......Worked Closely with a Game Warden once when I was Care Taking some Land near Cottonwood California years ago for Poachers...We need Game Wardens with a lot of authority , play by the rules you won't get burnt...


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Can someone post up the picture of cartman saying "you will respect my authority"? I think it applies very well to this thread.

Here is what im going to do, im going to make friends with them instead of antagonizing them. Easy to hate and blame much like the cops, but, it's not their fault you suck at haunting.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

Mr. Man said:


> Lol, how old are you, 15? Yes, it's legal. Yes, it's their job. Quit crying.


No it's not their job to just walk in and ruin hunts, has to be a reason. Probably a neighbor who hates hunters call in and said illegal weapons were being used, has to be something kind of big usually.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

buckeyboy said:


> that's funny?? they can come on your private property if they want too.. that's a fact look it up..


I see your from Ohio, you read it wrong, there has to be cause and or an invitation. Posting your land is an invitation by the by. If it's posted and hunting's going on the DNR is obligated to makes sure the legal hunters are there doing it. 

A friend and his son along with a party of hunters were rounded up by agents and air support in Wyandotte County a few years ago, they only hunt a day during gun season so his year was over. A neighbor who they've had problems with they suspect called in and said high powered rifles were being used.

Yes the DNR is the law and does what the law does, but there is still a day in court where things are straightened out. A man still can have his day to face his accusers. I wouldn't hesitate if it was me and something like this happened, they did not.

I know another guy who did go to court and all 3 charges dismissed. Land was posted, he called in and reported people were using it, guy showed up and charged him even though he tried explaining he was the one who called. Bad thing about it was the family was still grieving over the loss of his brother in a tragic car crash and the family very well known, hard to believe the agent didn't know who he was talking too. Wardens a good guy, families a good family, I didn't get it then an still don't, but a day in court is still a place to make sure things were done legal. Before going on about the guy who was charged, nothing stuck, he did nothing illegal.


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## DrewStevens (Jun 7, 2013)

They can't come into your property if you have some sort of fence or something like that I do know that


2013 Prime Defy


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

ohiobow said:


> when i don't have a zip tie i still fill out the tag andeither hold it in my hand while dragging or roll it up and shove it down there ear canal


JFYI, your illegal then. You have to produce certain items if stopped and something to write and attach the temp tag to the deer is 2 of them. Just the way it is. It actually says a pencil and a string or did, so a pencil and a string (not a zip) is what you have to have. Just do it. You don't want problems when you shoot that big buck Ohio's got behind every tree.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

DrewStevens said:


> They can't come into your property if you have some sort of fence or something like that I do know that
> 
> 2013 Prime Defy


Do you actually know the law? your statement of "They can't come into your property if you have some sort of fence *or something like that *I do know that" Kind of makes me think that's what youve heard and not read. Love Prime Defy's btw, and how is the hunting in NC? I have a friend with 30 acres I might be hunting someday.


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## DrewStevens (Jun 7, 2013)

Chopayne said:


> Do you actually know the law? your statement of "They can't come into your property if you have some sort of fence *or something like that *I do know that" Kind of makes me think that's what youve heard and not read. Love Prime Defy's btw, and how is the hunting in NC? I have a friend with 30 acres I might be hunting someday.


It's good. They say we have hogs but haven't seen um. A couple years ago they opened it up for bear so I'll think I'll be after one this year. The deer a decent size down here so all in all it's not a bad place to hunt except I'm guessing near the coast this time of year way to hot.


2013 Prime Defy


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## klean1 (Jan 14, 2012)

No public official can enter private property without a warrant or consent. Probable cause is not a "tip" from the neighbor. Its a blood trail or gunshot out of season.


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## MiamiValleyYoop (Aug 20, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> You are wrong.


Whoops. I might know a game warden or two


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## MiamiValleyYoop (Aug 20, 2013)

klean1 said:


> No public official can enter private property without a warrant or consent. Probable cause is not a "tip" from the neighbor. Its a blood trail or gunshot out of season.


Probable cause is defined differently for Game wardens, but you are correct about the warrant. But they may or may not have some already signed waiting to be used


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## pinwheeled (Apr 27, 2008)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


the only reason they came in on you in the woods is because they had information that you were up to something that you should not have been up to. Not saying you were but they had info that you were doing something wrong and they needed to catch you in the act. That is about the only time that a warden will check you while your in the stand.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

pinwheeled said:


> the only reason they came in on you in the woods is because they had information that you were up to something that you should not have been up to. Not saying you were but they had info that you were doing something wrong and they needed to catch you in the act. That is about the only time that a warden will check you while your in the stand.


Assuming they are honest. We have it pretty good in WV. The wildlife officers do not harass people, and there's very few of them. Their authority is also restricted. In other states - Florida for instance - the game wardens are Nazis. They are dishonest jack-booted thugs. They will illegally enter your property to spy on you. Then they will claim, well they heard a gunshot and they were investigating. They will sneak around on your property in ghillie suits and spy on you. If you complain, I have heard they will get you one way or the other - whether or not you actually do anything wrong.


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## Yichi (Dec 18, 2008)

Chopayne said:


> Can someone post up the picture of cartman saying "you will respect my authority"? I think it applies very well to this thread.
> 
> Here is what im going to do, im going to make friends with them instead of antagonizing them. Easy to hate and blame much like the cops, but, it's not their fault you suck at haunting.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

From the Florida Statutes.....Please see the bolded and underlined. Pursuit allows CO's to enter residence and search without a warrant due to the nature of the evidence being destroyed.......

379.3311 Police powers of commission and its agents.—
(1) The commission, the executive director and the executive director’s assistants designated by her or him, and each commission officer are constituted peace officers with the power to make arrests for violations of the laws of this state when committed in the presence of the officer or when committed on lands under the supervision and management of the commission, the department, the Board of Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, including state parks, coastal and aquatic managed areas, and greenways and trails. The general laws applicable to arrests by peace officers of this state shall also be applicable to such director, assistants, and commission officers. *Such persons may enter upon any land or waters of the state for performance of their lawful duties and may take with them any necessary equipment, and such entry does not constitute a trespass.*
(2) Such officers may enforce throughout the state all laws relating to game, nongame birds, fish, and fur-bearing animals and all rules and regulations of the commission relating to wild animal life, marine life, and freshwater aquatic life, and in connection with such laws, rules, and regulations, in the enforcement thereof and in the performance of their duties thereunder, to:
*(a) Go upon all premises, posted or otherwise;*
(b) Execute warrants and search warrants for the violation of such laws;
(c) Serve subpoenas issued for the examination, investigation, and trial of all offenses against such laws;
(d) Carry firearms or other weapons, concealed or otherwise, in the performance of their duties;
(e) *Arrest upon probable cause without warrant any person found in the act of violating any such laws or, in pursuit immediately following such violations, to examine any person, boat, conveyance, vehicle, game bag, game coat, or other receptacle for wild animal life, marine life, or freshwater aquatic life, or any camp, tent, cabin, or roster, in the presence of any person stopping at or belonging to such camp, tent, cabin, or roster, when such officer has reason to believe, and has exhibited her or his authority and stated to the suspected person in charge the officer’s reason for believing, that any of the aforesaid laws have been violated at such camp;*
(f) Secure and execute search warrants and in pursuance thereof to enter any building, enclosure, or car and to break open, when found necessary, any apartment, chest, locker, box, trunk, crate, basket, bag, package, or container and examine the contents thereof;
(g) Seize and take possession of all wild animal life, marine life, or freshwater aquatic life taken or in possession or under control of, or shipped or about to be shipped by, any person at any time in any manner contrary to such laws.
(3) It is unlawful for any person to resist an arrest authorized by this section or in any manner to interfere, either by abetting, assisting such resistance, or otherwise interfering with such executive director, assistants, or commission officers while engaged in the performance of the duties imposed upon them by law or regulation of the commission, the department, the Board of Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.
(4) Upon final disposition of any alleged offense for which a citation for any violation of this chapter or the rules of the commission has been issued, the court shall, within 10 days after the final disposition of the action, certify the disposition to the commission.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> From the Florida Statutes.....Please see the bolded and underlined. Pursuit allows CO's to enter residence and search without a warrant due to the nature of the evidence being destroyed.......
> 
> 379.3311 Police powers of commission and its agents.—
> (1) The commission, the executive director and the executive director’s assistants designated by her or him, and each commission officer are constituted peace officers with the power to make arrests for violations of the laws of this state when committed in the presence of the officer or when committed on lands under the supervision and management of the commission, the department, the Board of Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, including state parks, coastal and aquatic managed areas, and greenways and trails. The general laws applicable to arrests by peace officers of this state shall also be applicable to such director, assistants, and commission officers. *Such persons may enter upon any land or waters of the state for performance of their lawful duties and may take with them any necessary equipment, and such entry does not constitute a trespass.*
> ...


Yeah we get it. In FL game wardens have way too much power and are legally allowed to violate your privacy, and what should be your 4th Amendment rights. Congratulations on getting to lick their boots.


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## dorkbuck33 (Sep 12, 2011)

klean1 said:


> No public official can enter private property without a warrant or consent. Probable cause is not a "tip" from the neighbor. Its a blood trail or gunshot out of season.


Not true for Wi. - sorry it's just the way it is. They are above the law for some reason - although they can't write trespass tickets , local sheriff does that. Any warden may enter residence with out a search warrant if they have probabal cause also . They can enter your land just for giggles if they want. OP was in question , get over it and respect them for what they do.


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## klean1 (Jan 14, 2012)

dorkbuck33 said:


> Not true for Wi. - sorry it's just the way it is. They are above the law for some reason - although they can't write trespass tickets , local sheriff does that. Any warden may enter residence with out a search warrant if they have probabal cause also . They can enter your land just for giggles if they want. OP was in question , get over it and respect them for what they do.


They are not above the constitution


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## E72 (Aug 5, 2009)

IMO, Unless they suspect there is some illegal activity, they should stay off of private land (without landowner consent) and not interfere with a deer hunt. If you want to check hunters, wait at the vehicle or house to speak with them. Common sense and a little courtesy will help you gain respect while still doing your job.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

LawyerUp said:


> Yeah we get it. In FL game wardens have way too much power and are legally allowed to violate your privacy, and what should be your 4th Amendment rights. Congratulations on getting to lick their boots.


Go away.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> Yeah we get it. In FL game wardens have way too much power and are legally allowed to violate your privacy, and what should be your 4th Amendment rights. Congratulations on getting to lick their boots.


Brother I am not sure why you are attacking me. It is not just Florida FWC Officers that have a lot of power it is Wardens in most States that have the same powers. There is a lot of misinformation being posted in this thread and wanted to clear it up for some. I don't lick anyone's boots by the way. I see you are new but I suspect you are one of our regular pot stirring type members with a alter ego.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> Assuming they are honest. We have it pretty good in WV. The wildlife officers do not harass people, and there's very few of them. Their authority is also restricted. In other states - Florida for instance - the game wardens are Nazis. They are dishonest jack-booted thugs. They will illegally enter your property to spy on you. Then they will claim, well they heard a gunshot and they were investigating. They will sneak around on your property in ghillie suits and spy on you. If you complain, I have heard they will get you one way or the other - whether or not you actually do anything wrong.


If you had a bad experience here in Florida I would say it is the attitude you displayed.....like you did in your attack of me. I have found the majority of the FWC Officers down here to be quite professional and downright helpful. Most of the people down here I have come across have respect for them and like a lot posting in this thread wish there were more of them.


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

when is the last time anyone in this 6 page thread was harassed by a game warden..?? I'll bet not more than 2..


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## Angler62002 (Mar 2, 2010)

Their probable cause is you in the woods afield... to my knowledge only two people can arrest the president its us martial and Game Warden.... I could be wrong but they pretty well supersede local and state lawman...


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

buckeyboy said:


> when is the last time anyone in this 6 page thread was harassed by a game warden..?? I'll bet not more than 2..


I was not harassed.....but I was coming in the back gate of our club this weekend and saw the FWC Supervisor on the dirt road about 200 yards away. I pulled down to him and struck up a conversation as he lives about a mile from the club. He asked me if I or anyone from the club had dropped a bag of corn or lost one on the dirt road. I said not that I know of. He said they had a tip a local known poacher was dumping corn on the road and shooting deer off it late at night. He showed me the corn in the dirt road and told me to keep and eye on it and call him if we here any gunshots. I then invited him in to camp to meet the new members. He sat around with us for about 45 minutes telling us where he had seen bucks crossing the roads into our property while out patrolling trying to catch the poacher. There were 4 or 5 of us there and he did not check anyone and was downright cool to talk to. He is sort of a state wide legend....He is the lead investigator for FWC in this region and is also the guy that arrested and almost got killed by Ted Bundy.


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

So this is a police state now. The authors of our Constitution tried to prevent this from happening. We should make it a free country again.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> If you had a bad experience here in Florida I would say it is the attitude you displayed.....like you did in your attack of me. I have found the majority of the FWC Officers down here to be quite professional and downright helpful. Most of the people down here I have come across have respect for them and like a lot posting in this thread wish there were more of them.


I own property in FL and I grew up hunting there. I've been harassed by them many times, and seen them harass many other people. I've personally seen them lie and I've caught them in lies trying to confiscate items of value from people on my property. They will drive into our property down a 3 mile road just to snoop around, and then if you confront them they say they heard a shot. Everyone there knows damn well there was no shot. I've caught them in ghillie suits watching us in the bushes. I've had judges, other LEOs, and prominent lawyers in the state tell me they are absolutely out of control.

It's a sad state of affairs when you are a law-abiding citizen, and yet you get harassed and spied on by a bunch of cop wanna-bees playing SEAL team 6 in the woods. It's not just my experience, but every other large landowner that I have spoken to about it. I have not experienced this in WV and VA at all. The wildlife officers are professional, polite and focused on what they are actually supposed to be doing.


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

Hello!!!!!!
It's their Job to look for violators .. how do they know if even have a licence in your pocket if they don't check you,,
If you can't comprehend this this , it's just possible you be a mentally challenged..


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

LawyerUp said:


> I own property in FL and I grew up hunting there. I've been harassed by them many times, and seen them harass many other people. I've personally seen them lie and I've caught them in lies trying to confiscate items of value from people on my property. They will drive into our property down a 3 mile road just to snoop around, and then if you confront them they say they heard a shot. Everyone there knows damn well there was no shot. I've caught them in ghillie suits watching us in the bushes. I've had judges, other LEOs, and prominent lawyers in the state tell me they are absolutely out of control.
> 
> It's a sad state of affairs when you are a law-abiding citizen, and yet you get harassed and spied on by a bunch of cop wanna-bees playing SEAL team 6 in the woods. It's not just my experience, but every other large landowner that I have spoken to about it. I have not experienced this in WV and VA at all. The wildlife officers are professional, polite and focused on what they are actually supposed to be doing.


I grew up being harassed by the local cops and CO who were illegally hunting the county forest preserve that bordered the farm where I hunted legally. They wanted me out because I could see them.

For a long time, I didn't understand why they were harassing me. I was always legal but they ruined every hunt they could. Then one day I saw a bunch of people hunting in the forest preserve. I drove to the ranger's residence to report it and found that all the illegal hunters were parked in his yard. All the illegal hunters were cops and conservation officers.

They're the hired help. Don't trust them and, absolutely, do not give them too much power. They need to be closely supervised.


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

buckeyboy said:


> when is the last time anyone in this 6 page thread was harassed by a game warden..?? I'll bet not more than 2..


I definetly was. Guy walked to my tree 5 mornings in a row - on my ground. Had me lower my bow, get down, checked my license, tags, heads, looked in my pack. Everythng was fine. politely, i asked when he walks out if he could go out a slightly different way (he walked directly thru a very thick bedding area). He told me "I will walk wherever I feel like it". I thought, OK, tough guy but didnt say a word. 

Having had 5 days off and wanting to hunt bad, I was not a happy camper. I kept hunting, but understood he was just checking a hunter, no biggie. The next day, same thing, here he comes again. The next day, same thing. The next day, same thing. The next day, here he comes again. I met him at the base of the tree this time. The outcome of this meeting was a little different than what he expected. I will leave it at that. 

My truck was parked right by the gate - I wasn't trying to hide. I've never had a violation in the past. We recently bought the property and I suspect we took a hunting spot from him. He got the point and he never checked me again, but liked to park his truck in the drive of our property - a lot.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

MGF said:


> I grew up being harassed by the local cops and CO who were illegally hunting the county forest preserve that bordered the farm where I hunted legally. They wanted me out because I could see them.
> 
> For a long time, I didn't understand why they were harassing me. I was always legal but they ruined every hunt they could. Then one day I saw a bunch of people hunting in the forest preserve. I drove to the ranger's residence to report it and found that all the illegal hunters were parked in his yard. All the illegal hunters were cops and conservation officers.
> 
> They're the hired help. Don't trust them and, absolutely, do not give them too much power. They need to be closely supervised.


I have had similar experience. The biggest poachers I ever knew were game wardens and LEO's.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

buckeyboy said:


> Hello!!!!!!
> It's their Job to look for violators .. how do they know if even have a licence in your pocket if they don't check you,,
> If you can't comprehend this this , it's just possible you be a mentally challenged..


If that's how you guys like it in Rhode Island then have at it. I suppose you don't mind the NSA listening to your phone calls either - after all that's their job to find out who's breaking the law, and how are they going to know whether or not you're a law abiding citizen unless they spy on you? If you can't comprehend the concept of freedom and liberty, then well you live in a glass house and shouldn't be throwing stones.


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## ohiobow (Jul 22, 2009)

nodog said:


> JFYI, your illegal then. You have to produce certain items if stopped and something to write and attach the temp tag to the deer is 2 of them. Just the way it is. It actually says a pencil and a string or did, so a pencil and a string (not a zip) is what you have to have. Just do it. You don't want problems when you shoot that big buck Ohio's got behind every tree.


not any longer since you can tellecheck it on the spot just a pen is required i believe


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

The open fields doctrine was first articulated by the U.S. Supreme Court in Hester v. United States,[3] which stated that “the special protection accorded by the Fourth Amendment to the people in their ‘persons, houses, papers, and effects,’ is not extended to the open fields."[4] This opinion appears to be decided on the basis that "open fields are not a "constitutionally protected area" because they cannot be construed as "persons, houses, papers, [or] effects."

This method of reasoning gave way with the arrival of the landmark case Katz v. U.S.,[5] which established a two-part test for what constitutes a search within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment. The relevant criteria are "first that a person have exhibited an actual (subjective) expectation of privacy and, second, that the expectation be one that society is prepared to recognize as reasonable'."[6] Under this new analysis of the Fourth Amendment, a search of an object or area where a person has no reasonable expectation of privacy is, in a legal sense, not a search at all. That search, therefore, does not trigger the protections of the Fourth Amendment.

In Oliver v. United States,[7] the Supreme Court held that a privacy expectation regarding an open field is unreasonable:

…open fields do not provide the setting for those intimate activities that the Amendment is intended to shelter from government interference or surveillance. There is no societal interest in protecting the privacy of those activities, such as the cultivation of crops, that occur in open fields.[8]

Courts have continuously held that entry into an open field—whether trespass or not—is not a search within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment. No matter what steps a person takes, he or she cannot create a reasonable privacy expectation in an open field, because it is an area incapable of supporting an expectation of privacy as a matter of constitutional law. In situations where the police allege that what was searched was an open field, this has the practical effect of shifting the argument from whether any given expectation of privacy is reasonable, to whether the given place is actually an open field or some other type of area like curtilage. This is because a person can have a reasonable expectation of privacy in areas classed as such.

Distinguishing open fields from curtilage[edit source | editbeta]While open fields are not protected by the Fourth Amendment, the curtilage, or outdoor area immediately surrounding the home, may be protected. Courts have treated this area as an extension of the house and as such subject to all the privacy protections afforded a person’s home (unlike a person's open fields) under the Fourth Amendment. An area is curtilage if it "harbors the intimate activity associated with the sanctity of a man's home and the privacies of life."[9] Courts make this determination by examining "the proximity of the area claimed to be curtilage to the home, whether the area is included within an enclosure surrounding the home, the nature of the uses to which the area is put, and the steps taken by the resident to protect the area from observation by people passing by."[10] Theoretically, many structures might extend the curtilage protection to the areas immediately surrounding them. The courts have gone so far as to treat a tent as a home for Fourth Amendment purposes in the past.[11][12][13] (Note: these are 9th Circuit Court of Appeals cases and would not be binding authority in many, if not most, cases.) It is possible that the area immediately surrounding a tent (or any structure used as a home) might be considered curtilage.

Despite this rather broad interpretation of curtilage, the courts seem willing to find areas to be outside of the curtilage if they are in any way separate from the home (by a fence, great distance, other structures, even certain plants).[


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

Most areas you guys are hunting are considered open fields.. And open for Law enforcement doing their official dutys... Take it from here. Only the courts can decide on individual cases.
Contact your local states, Some states differ slightly, But this is a federal doctrine


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

Mr. Man said:


> Lol, how old are you, 15? Yes, it's legal. Yes, it's their job. Quit crying.


That's your response? I suppose you would be pleased and thank them if you rolled out of bed at 4am...snuck to your stand without boogering anything, were hunting g 100% legally and had 2 guys game warden or not interrupt your hunt? The last thing we need to do is concede even more unnecessary authorization to harass us to ANY government body. Wake up comrade.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

Toonces said:


> The voices in his head.


I don't know if the "hunter harassment" thing is true...but shouldn't it be. You robots kill me.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

stillern said:


> That's your response? I suppose you would be pleased and thank them if you rolled out of bed at 4am...snuck to your stand without boogering anything, were hunting g 100% legally and had 2 guys game warden or not interrupt your hunt? The last thing we need to do is concede even more unnecessary authorization to harass us to ANY government body. Wake up comrade.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


Well said comrade. The Library of Congress now has a SWAT team. We need less government, less laws, less taxes - and more freedom.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

stillern said:


> I don't know if the "hunter harassment" thing is true...but shouldn't it be. You robots kill me.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


Hardly a robot, but the idea of prosecuting a LEO for hunter harrasment, while in the performance of his duties (whether or not those duties withstand Constitutional review) and succeeding is highly unlikely.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> I own property in FL and I grew up hunting there. I've been harassed by them many times, and seen them harass many other people. I've personally seen them lie and I've caught them in lies trying to confiscate items of value from people on my property. They will drive into our property down a 3 mile road just to snoop around, and then if you confront them they say they heard a shot. Everyone there knows damn well there was no shot. I've caught them in ghillie suits watching us in the bushes. I've had judges, other LEOs, and prominent lawyers in the state tell me they are absolutely out of control.
> 
> It's a sad state of affairs when you are a law-abiding citizen, and yet you get harassed and spied on by a bunch of cop wanna-bees playing SEAL team 6 in the woods. It's not just my experience, but every other large landowner that I have spoken to about it. I have not experienced this in WV and VA at all. The wildlife officers are professional, polite and focused on what they are actually supposed to be doing.


The only ones around here that I hear complain about the FWC Officers are dog hunters. If you are from Florida you know the mentality of a lot of dog hunting clubs. They are in the wrong many times and complain when they get tickets. The local outlaws that trespass and poach also complain about them. We have quite a few Management areas near me and many many large hunting clubs. Talking with people in this area most love the FWC Officers around here and invite them to patrol their clubs at will. My local FWC Officers have keys to my gates on the 1800 acres I hunt. They can check my club anytime they want and have helped with a few issues of trespassing and poaching in the past. 

It is all in how you go about your business brother. Your initial post to me, when all I did was post the law here, told me most likely you will not have good interactions with any type of LEO. Attitudes are contagious brother


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

Toonces said:


> Hardly a robot, but the idea of prosecuting a LEO for hunter harrasment, while in the performance of his duties (whether or not those duties withstand Constitutional review) and succeeding is highly unlikely.


If their actions do not withstand constitutional review, then they've committed a federal felony.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

LawyerUp said:


> If their actions do not withstand constitutional review, then they've committed a federal felony.


What federal felony would that be exactly?


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## mplane72 (Apr 18, 2010)

Regardless of what authority the law does or does not give a game warden, it's bad form to be out just checking license and compliance when someone is in the act of hunting. If they have a real reason to suspect a violation then that's fine, even if it's a BS tip or some other mistake, otherwise if they want to check me so bad they should wait till I'm done. Pissing off law abiding citizens just because they can does not help their cause. I've never been checked at my stand but have had them check me plenty of times duck hunting. Sometimes at the worst times. I don't get pissy with them but inside I am steaming. I just ry to hurry them along and get them out of there. Don't know if I could keep my mouth shut if they came out to my tree stand.


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## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

I have no problem with the game wardens for the two counties I hunt in.
Both are nice guys simply doing their job.
However, neither of them would walk in on somebody's hunt while they were in a stand on private property.
Unless, they have serious probable cause that something illegal is going on.
Both the game wardens I know are hunters too. They understand hunting. They get that taxpayers would be pissed off if their legal hunt was intruded upon.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> The only ones around here that I hear complain about the FWC Officers are dog hunters. If you are from Florida you know the mentality of a lot of dog hunting clubs. They are in the wrong many times and complain when they get tickets. The local outlaws that trespass and poach also complain about them. We have quite a few Management areas near me and many many large hunting clubs. Talking with people in this area most love the FWC Officers around here and invite them to patrol their clubs at will. My local FWC Officers have keys to my gates on the 1800 acres I hunt. They can check my club anytime they want and have helped with a few issues of trespassing and poaching in the past.
> 
> It is all in how you go about your business brother. Your initial post to me, when all I did was post the law here, told me most likely you will not have good interactions with any type of LEO. Attitudes are contagious brother


In my experience, the only landowners who don't get harassed by FL game wardens, are the one's who let them hunt on their property, or use their property to stage their missions into neighboring properties. That would probably explain your experience. I've never hunted with dogs - just family trying to enjoy the outdoors. I'm sure there are good ones in some areas of the state, but this seems to be supported by the leadership from what I've been told.

I responded to you because you posted this on page 1 of this thread:



> I work with a couple of FWC Officers on a regular basis and they always check people while in uniform. They also check people while undercover on plain clothes operations.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

Toonces said:


> What federal felony would that be exactly?


Violation of civil rights. Look it up.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

LawyerUp said:


> Violation of civil rights. Look it up.


That's a federal felony? I don't know the laws but I don't think you're quite right.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

LawyerUp said:


> Violation of civil rights. Look it up.


I think it's a large stretch to argue that someone having their hunting license checked and their hunt interrupted has had their civil rights violated, especially if they are not cited for an infraction, but I do like the way you think.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

Chopayne said:


> That's a federal felony? I don't know the laws but I don't think you're quite right.


Note: I didn't state that the proposed scenario was a civil rights violation, I just said if it doesn't pass constitutional review, and therefore is a violation of civil rights, it is a violation of federal law. Obviously not all violations of federal law are prosecuted anyways. But it does happen.

Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law
This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.

This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.

Acts under "color of any law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under "color of any law," the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.

Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

What would Claude Dallas do?

I've had them come to the blind turkey hunting or meet at truck.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> In my experience, the only landowners who don't get harassed by FL game wardens, are the one's who let them hunt on their property, or use their property to stage their missions into neighboring properties. That would probably explain your experience. I've never hunted with dogs - just family trying to enjoy the outdoors. I'm sure there are good ones in some areas of the state, but this seems to be supported by the leadership from what I've been told.
> 
> I responded to you because you posted this on page 1 of this thread:


So because I have worked with them in the past it gives you cause to attack me? I work with many LEO agencies at the local, state, and federal level. I have good working relationships with many of them. There are some in LEO that are not too nice and overzealous in their jobs but that is the case in any job you might care to take. Part of my duties are Internal Affairs so I know the good and bad in LEO. I can say for the most part the vast majority of LEO's are honest folks trying to make a living. There are a few that make it tough on all that wear the badge with their actions. Most rules in the workplace that are made are because someone screws up and makes everyone suffer and I would venture to say that most people who work have experienced this. With all that being said it does not mean that one or two bad FWC Officers make them all bad. Heck FWC and the Federal Wardens were my heroes for a while when they caught all the fatcats and politicians hunting over that baited dove field near the Capital.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> In my experience, the only landowners who don't get harassed by FL game wardens, are the one's who let them hunt on their property, or use their property to stage their missions into neighboring properties. That would probably explain your experience. I've never hunted with dogs - just family trying to enjoy the outdoors. I'm sure there are good ones in some areas of the state, but this seems to be supported by the leadership from what I've been told.
> 
> I responded to you because you posted this on page 1 of this thread:


They dont hunt my property but I have invited them to in the past. They have not staged any operation from my property other than the ones I called them about in trying to catch poachers/trespassers/illegal dumpers. The neighboring property owners have also given the FWC keys to their properties because of all the trespassing on ATV's and tearing up of their property by trespassers.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

LawyerUp said:


> Note: I didn't state that the proposed scenario was a civil rights violation, I just said if it doesn't pass constitutional review, and therefore is a violation of civil rights, it is a violation of federal law. Obviously not all violations of federal law are prosecuted anyways. But it does happen.


The question would be is whether someone having his hunt interrupted has actually been deprived of a right, priviledge or immunity under the Constitution. Hunting is not a right, so under the current scenario I doubt there is a violation here, unless you somehow argue that the tresspass alone violates a right. If the LEO illegally arrested and detained the hunter, then I think you would have something.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> They dont hunt my property but I have invited them to in the past. They have not staged any operation from my property other than the ones I called them about in trying to catch poachers/trespassers/illegal dumpers.


The point is, that you are treated differently because 1) you are apparently involved in law enforcement (as internal affairs no less - no wonder they are so nice to you); 2) you extended permission for them to hunt on your property.


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## goathollow (Jun 18, 2008)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


What else would they be dressed in...a pink tutu? I would think that if they are *NOT* in uniform there might be something to your statement.

Besides, how else are they to check hunters, wait all day at their vehicle until the hunter returns? Its their job, respect them for what they do; its a darn tough job. Long hours, up early, sometimes all night, cold, hot, rainy and crappy pay. Not to mention dangerous, every hunter they check can shoot back.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> The question would be is whether someone having his hunt interrupted has actually been deprived of a right, priviledge or immunity under the Constitution. Hunting is not a right, so under the current scenario I doubt there is a violation here, unless you somehow argue that the tresspass alone violates a right. If the LEO illegally arrested and detained the hunter, then I think you would have something.


Well thought out and I agree brother.


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## goathollow (Jun 18, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> I know not every state has the same laws. I fully expect that game wardens can do as they please to certain extent on public property.
> In Va. I'm not so sure game wardens can just stroll on to private property that is posted without probable cause or reason to think laws are being broken. That would be similar to the police searching your back yard without cause to do so. However, I would love for a game warden to walk our property lines on a regular basis during gun season!


Probable cause: There is someone hunting and he/she may not have a license or may otherwise be illegal.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

Toonces said:


> The question would be is whether someone having his hunt interrupted has actually been deprived of a right, priviledge or immunity under the Constitution. Hunting is not a right, so under the current scenario I doubt there is a violation here, unless you somehow argue that the tresspass alone violates a right. If the LEO illegally arrested and detained the hunter, then I think you would have something.


Again, I never said that the interruption of a hunt was a civil rights violation. I was responding to your parenthetical, which stated


> (whether or not those duties withstand Constitutional review)


. A violation of the Fourth Amendment, an unreasonable search and seizure, if it could be proven, would be the argument.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

law651 said:


> Most areas you guys are hunting are considered open fields.. And open for Law enforcement doing their official dutys... Take it from here. Only the courts can decide on individual cases.
> Contact your local states, Some states differ slightly, But this is a federal doctrine


Hmm I read your thing and it is interesting. Can a fenced in backyard be entered without a warrant? I think that is the case as it is not afforded protection under the 4th amendment, but something attached directly to the house would be?


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> The point is, that you are treated differently because 1) you are apparently involved in law enforcement (as internal affairs no less - no wonder they are so nice to you); 2) you extended permission for them to hunt on your property.


This was before I was conducted Internal Affairs investigations and before I extended the offer to come hunt the property a day or two. Nice try though. My first experience with an FWC Officer was back in the late 1970's as a kid in the Ocala National Forest hunting the scrubs with my family and friends of the family. We always got checked on the Oklawaha river while fishing as well. The old Marine Patrol which is not part of FWC checked us repeatedly every year while flats fishing in the Steinhatchee, Cedar Key, and Suwannee areas. I had many experiences with them over the years hunting private and public land and fishing while growing up and they were always positive. It is all in how you act towards them.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Chopayne said:


> Hmm I read your thing and it is interesting. Can a fenced in backyard be entered without a warrant? I think that is the case as it is not afforded protection under the 4th amendment, but something attached directly to the house would be?


Privacy fence, regular fence, tall shrubbery, and other barriers erected to keep people out or add a modicum of privacy are considered curtilage and are protected from illegal search and seizure except in exigent circumstances.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

officers are simply doing their job. It's reasonably expected that at anytime during the hunt you could be expected to produce evidence that you have a right to hunt--being that you have proper documentation. You may not like it, but it's a reasonable expectation that you will produce upon request by the proper officer. 

As mentioned, this is no different than being stopped by a peace officer and being asked for your insurance and drivers license. If the argument is that your hunt is being unreasonably interrupted, then you should argue your commute is being interrupted ---yea, how far will that argument go?


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Hmm, so basically if you own 500 acres and you're good enough/have enough time/rich enough to erect large shrubbery as privacy, they can't come on?


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## jayson2984 (Oct 13, 2010)

Fury90flier said:


> officers are simply doing their job. It's reasonably expected that at anytime during the hunt you could be expected to produce evidence that you have a right to hunt--being that you have proper documentation. You may not like it, but it's a reasonable expectation that you will produce upon request by the proper officer.
> 
> As mentioned, this is no different than being stopped by a peace officer and being asked for your insurance and drivers license. If the argument is that your hunt is being unreasonably interrupted, then you should argue your commute is being interrupted ---yea, how far will that argument go?


Cops can't just stop you without reasonable cause, can they?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Fury90flier said:


> officers are simply doing their job. It's reasonably expected that at anytime during the hunt you could be expected to produce evidence that you have a right to hunt--being that you have proper documentation. You may not like it, but it's a reasonable expectation that you will produce upon request by the proper officer.
> 
> As mentioned, this is no different than being stopped by a peace officer and being asked for your insurance and drivers license. If the argument is that your hunt is being unreasonably interrupted, then you should argue your commute is being interrupted ---yea, how far will that argument go?


Officers can't pull you over and ask for insurance and drivers license without you breaking a law or they have some kind of suspicions (like drunk driving).


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> This was before I was conducted Internal Affairs investigations and before I extended the offer to come hunt the property a day or two. Nice try though. My first experience with an FWC Officer was back in the late 1970's as a kid in the Ocala National Forest hunting the scrubs with my family and friends of the family. We always got checked on the Oklawaha river while fishing as well. The old Marine Patrol which is not part of FWC checked us repeatedly every year while flats fishing in the Steinhatchee, Cedar Key, and Suwannee areas. I had many experiences with them over the years hunting private and public land and fishing while growing up and they were always positive. It is all in how you act towards them.


Ahh marine patrol. Those guys who take all the fun out of boating and fishing. Nothing like having a manly female with a buzz cut stop your boat, make you show her your whistle, and your requisite number of floatation devices. Lol. I know you are from up north originally, but I just don't know how my father and grandfather ever survived living in FL before the age of the nanny state. I suppose I'm very lucky they didn't drown to death or something before I was born.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

Cops can't stop commuters just to check insurance and license.



Fury90flier said:


> officers are simply doing their job. It's reasonably expected that at anytime during the hunt you could be expected to produce evidence that you have a right to hunt--being that you have proper documentation. You may not like it, but it's a reasonable expectation that you will produce upon request by the proper officer.
> 
> As mentioned, this is no different than being stopped by a peace officer and being asked for your insurance and drivers license. If the argument is that your hunt is being unreasonably interrupted, then you should argue your commute is being interrupted ---yea, how far will that argument go?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

anytime officers have a reasonable believe that a person might be breaking the law, they have a right to question.


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

snoman4 said:


> Privacy fence, regular fence, tall shrubbery, and other barriers erected to keep people out or add a modicum of privacy are considered cartilage and are protected from illegal search and seizure except in exigent circumstances.


Dead on Snowman...


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Fury90flier said:


> anytime officers have a reasonable believe that a person might be breaking the law, they have a right to question.


Yea but that has to be like someone speeding, running stop signs, driving recklessly. You can't just pull someone over driving.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

LawyerUp said:


> Again, I never said that the interruption of a hunt was a civil rights violation. I was responding to your parenthetical, which stated . A violation of the Fourth Amendment, an unreasonable search and seizure, if it could be proven, would be the argument.


OK - I guess I was thinking out loud that it would be possible for an LEO to exceed his authority under the Constitution but as a result there was no violation of an individual right, at least not an actionable one. Maybe you can't have one without the other. I mean can an LEO violate the Constitution with no one suffering any damage as a result? Might be getting into if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it territory.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

skynight said:


> Cops can't stop commuters just to check insurance and license.


That is correct. But they don't need to now that they have those scanners on their cars, and at various points on the highways. How many of you even know that they have this ability now? If you've seen those funny looking things on the rear of police cruisers, or hanging over the highway - now you know. They scan your license plate and keep a permanent log of where you have been, and where you have not been. This is also tied to your license, insurance, and NCIC information.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Chopayne said:


> Hmm, so basically if you own 500 acres and you're good enough/have enough time/rich enough to erect large shrubbery as privacy, they can't come on?


I would think it would qualify. It is the same reason the Branch Davidians and all the other wack job groups build walled compounds and such.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

Toonces said:


> OK - I guess I was thinking out loud that it would be possible for an LEO to exceed his authority under the Constitution but as a result there was no violation of an individual right, at least not an actionable one. Maybe you can't have one without the other. I mean can an LEO violate the Constitution with no one suffering any damage as a result? Might be getting into if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it territory.


Having your constitutional rights violated is the damage, even if you don't have a physical or economic injury. For instance, in 1983 suits, if you prove a civil rights violation, even if you cannot prove any monetary damages, you are entitled to nominal compensation of $1.00 and all of your reasonable attorney fees and expenses.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

NCIS? I love that show.

Heck, now you went and edited the post and ruined my sa comment.


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

law651 said:


> The open fields doctrine was first articulated by the U.S. Supreme Court in Hester v. United States,[3] which stated that “the special protection accorded by the Fourth Amendment to the people in their ‘persons, houses, papers, and effects,’ is not extended to the open fields."[4] This opinion appears to be decided on the basis that "open fields are not a "constitutionally protected area" because they cannot be construed as "persons, houses, papers, [or] effects."
> 
> This method of reasoning gave way with the arrival of the landmark case Katz v. U.S.,[5] which established a two-part test for what constitutes a search within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment. The relevant criteria are "first that a person have exhibited an actual (subjective) expectation of privacy and, second, that the expectation be one that society is prepared to recognize as reasonable'."[6] Under this new analysis of the Fourth Amendment, a search of an object or area where a person has no reasonable expectation of privacy is, in a legal sense, not a search at all. That search, therefore, does not trigger the protections of the Fourth Amendment.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to put this back on top,, Most of you havent seen this yet...

Where is the civil rights violation? Law Enforcmement offier on your land do to open fields doctrine, Checking license... Same as out by the road ect.... Yes their is all kinds of different situations that an officer can be wrong... But to make it simple, Hunting on the back 40 is part of open fields. As long as the officer is acting in official capacity on duty, He is their legally.
Not saying its right at all to bother law abiding citizens, hunting, and screwing things up for them!!!!!!!


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

We get checked every year in Tarkio Missouri by the same agent and it has gotten to the point where we just expect to see him, he glasses us from a distance and when we are coming out he meets us at the road and checks our tags but sometimes when he sees us climbing down he does 35 mph across the field and meets us at the bottom of the tree like he is going to catch us doing something.

I guess I am glad he is out there but when I watch the same guys drive by every year road hunting and sometimes stopping and shooting from the road in my direction it is irritating to never see them get stopped but the same day I get checked again.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> OK - I guess I was thinking out loud that it would be possible for an LEO to exceed his authority under the Constitution but as a result there was no violation of an individual right, at least not an actionable one. Maybe you can't have one without the other. I mean can an LEO violate the Constitution with no one suffering any damage as a result? Might be getting into if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it territory.


One thing to remember Civil Rights cases are much easier to prove. They are not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt they are judged on a preponderance of the evidence. Basically 51 percent in layman's terms. Many brutality or false arrest cases are prosecuted under Civil Rights issues for this very reason. It is easier to get a conviction.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

LawyerUp said:


> Having your constitutional rights violated is the damage, even if you don't have a physical or economic injury. For instance, in 1983 suits, if you prove a civil rights violation, even if you cannot prove any monetary damages, you are entitled to nominal compensation of $1.00 and all of your reasonable attorney fees and expenses.


No I get that. We are not talking about torts or contracts here. I guess I was musing can an LEO violate the Constitution without there being an identifiable victim whose rights have been violated. Probably not.


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

Toonces said:


> I have had similar experience. The biggest poachers I ever knew were game wardens and LEO's.


That's because they can do what they want.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

My wife is the prosecutor in my county and she handles all of the tickets that come through and there are times when she dismisses them because the agent hasn't made good decisions in her opinion when writing the ticket. Agents are not god and they make mistakes just like we do, my wife asks me for advice many times on these cases because she isn't a hunter and only knows the law and she likes to hear from me to help her make a decision.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> No I get that. We are not talking about torts or contracts here. I guess I was musing can an LEO violate the Constitution without there being an identifiable victim whose rights have been violated. Probably not.


You can violate Civil Rights under two general conditions that have been recognized by the Court and that is Pursuit and Exigent Circumstances.


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

If your not doing anything wrong!!! don't worry about it..


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

snoman4 said:


> You can violate Civil Rights under two general conditions that have been recognized by the Court and that is Pursuit and Exigent Circumstances.


No my question is more simply can an LEO commit a victimless crime under the Constitution? Thinking it through, the answer is probably no.


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## goathollow (Jun 18, 2008)

Shouldernuke! said:


> So those that say this is the way it should be ..Let me ask you how would you feel if the police just came up and walked into your garage then your house serching for something to arrest you over , and asked you questions anytime they want to ???
> 
> Actually the COs /Wardens have to see or witness a suspicious act that they feel is illegal and or have a complaint from a land owner or whitness when a hunter is on private property to come in and question or search . They are subject to the same search and seizure laws that all LEOs are in this nation .Do a little research before you guys post things like" they can just go where ever they want and do what ever they like whenever they want" and the like.It simply is not true and don't you but those stories either .One exception to this is public ground hunters they are on GOV ground and are subject to CO approach at any time.


Nuke: I don't know if you are right or wrong, but from a practical standpoint COs simply don't have the time to wander around the woods looking for someone so they can check for hunting license. Same goes for a CO walking up to a house or a garage and just barging in. As you and I both know there are about 2 COs per county in Indiana and they have to respond to everything from nuisance animals to pot growers, and in between they are charged with the duty of protecting wild life. For a CO to get out of his truck and walk into the woods to check someone, he has to have seen something that causes him to be a little suspicious. A truck parked along the road during hunting season isn't one of them. Now if the truck as 20 empty beer cans in the bed that could cause him to go looking.

I've been checked probably a dozen times in my 50 or so years of hunting and not once did I feel like the CO was overstepping his authority or was just trying to give me a hard time. The only time I've been party to a violation, the CO stopped at a farm where we were duck hunting. He saw us standing around drinking a cup of coffee after the hunt in our waders and stopped to chat. He politely asked for to see our licenses which we provided. Then he asked to see each of our shot guns and asked for 3 shells. He put two in the magazine and if the third didn't fit we were good to go. A teenager on his first hunt shooting a brand new Rem 870 found out what it meant to have a plug in the gun. The officer was polite but stood by the law, ignorance is no excuse. I think the fine was $50 at the time and we all put up $10 to help the kid out. We felt partially responsible for not making sure the plug was in the gun. He really had no idea to check and we thought a brand new shotgun would have one.


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

jayson2984 said:


> Cops can't just stop you without reasonable cause, can they?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


They can stop and ask you to show your license, Fishing Hunting ect After that its generally the 2 min rule, With out reasonable suspision they need to release you. Reasonable suspision only gives them more time to detain and investigate..


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

staggyd said:


> Last year on opening day of gun season at 7:45am they DROVE their truck through our neighbors property (cut corn field ) after seeing the old man and son hunting the field edge from 300-400yards away....ruined their hunt, then left and came to my property when they saw my 4 wheeler parked near the barn....never came on my property and it would have gotten ugly if they had...they proceeded to go to next property and drive down a half mile long private dirt road to the next wood lot....douche bags !!!


Do folks call you a douche bag for doing your job? What do you do for a living? How are they supposed to make sure everybody is following the law if they can't go out and check people. Give me a break. I have found that people who don't like cops/wardens or whatever are usually folks who tend to bend the rules. This more than likely defines yourself.

And I know here in NM they don't have to have any suspision or a complaint to come onto private land and check you. The fact that you are out there with a weapon is reason enough. How do they know you are within the law if they don't go and check you. A lot of poachers would get away if laws were written like some of you would like them to be.


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## davydtune (Apr 27, 2007)

Don't ever hunt in Canada, at least in Quebec. They will walk in on ya most every time and it seems they wait for the magic hour to do so.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Chopayne said:


> Yea but that has to be like someone speeding, running stop signs, driving recklessly. You can't just pull someone over driving.


Not necessarily. All the officer needs is to say "suspicious activity". 

Game Wardens are a little different. Though the laws vary from state to state, I bet if you read the rules and regulations you'll find that the GW can stop you at anytime he wants, not just when he observes and infaction.



Chopayne said:


> Hmm, so basically if you own 500 acres and you're good enough/have enough time/rich enough to erect large shrubbery as privacy, they can't come on?


Depends on the state, some states allow the GW on to private property.




snoman4 said:


> Privacy fence, regular fence, tall shrubbery, and other barriers erected to keep people out or add a modicum of privacy are considered curtilage and are protected from illegal search and seizure except in exigent circumstances.


Regular cops that would apply but a GW in many cases can come onto the property and inspect you personally, checkout your weapons and verify your license.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


Skipped all responses..... Hunting is not a right...if you choose to hunt you also consent to being checked!!! just part of the sport.


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## davydtune (Apr 27, 2007)

tyepsu said:


> Unfortunately it is legal in most states even without probable cause. I have a few pieces of land that I have received permission to hunt and the landowners have told the game wardens to stay the hell away. Legally, they can still come back; however I think some of the wardens have stayed away just to keep the peace. Some things sound good on paper, but when it comes to real world application do not turn out as well as intended. I know it varies from state to state also. I have heard the Wardens in Ohio are friendly and helpful. Here in PA most WCO think because they have a badge they are some type of [email protected] and most assume every hunter they come into contact with is guilty. I have no issue with them going after poachers, tresspassers (they can't in PA... only local or state law enforcement can do this unless another game law violation is being committed) if they have evidence a violation is taking place. I do have issue when they simply see what appears to be a hunters vehicle parked somewhere and they start walking all over private land looking for who they assume must be in violation of game laws. They actually have more power (Example: don't need a warrant) than state and local law enforcement. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."


Yep


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

MGF said:


> That's because they can do what they want.


Some of them at least think they can do what they want, that is for sure. 

My absolute favorite line from the movie *Jaws* is "_I can do anything, I am the chief of police_".


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## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

Fury90flier said:


> Not necessarily. All the officer needs is to say "suspicious activity".
> 
> Game Wardens are a little different. Though the laws vary from state to state, I bet if you read the rules and regulations you'll find that the GW can stop you at anytime he wants, not just when he observes and infaction.
> 
> ...


All law enforcment is held to the same standards.. Most people don't realize when they give permission to the GW.. When he says I need to see in your freezer... You have the option to say no, without a warrant... Most dont know that and take them to the freezer, basically giving them permission to be their.


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## Bone&Stone (Jul 23, 2013)

Someone dropped a dime on you brother.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

law651 said:


> All law enforcment is held to the same standards.. Most people don't realize when they give permission to the GW.. When he says I need to see in your freezer... You have the option to say no, without a warrant... Most dont know that and take them to the freezer, basically giving them permission to be their.


Not true...it varies by state.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

Fury90flier said:


> Not true...it varies by state.


I know a guy who wrote on his freezer in black marker that he had an expectation of privacy under the fourth amendment.


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## Wagz (Sep 11, 2009)

LawyerUp said:


> That is correct. But they don't need to now that they have those scanners on their cars, and at various points on the highways. How many of you even know that they have this ability now? If you've seen those funny looking things on the rear of police cruisers, or hanging over the highway - now you know. They scan your license plate and keep a permanent log of where you have been, and where you have not been. This is also tied to your license, insurance, and NCIC information.


Paranoid much? Those are LPRs, license plate readers, and simply check the registration through a database of stolen vehicles, arrest warrants, etc. They check thousands or more plates a day, there is no database keeping track of the time and location each plate was ran and cross referencing it. Its simply a way to help locate stolen vehicles and wanted individuals.


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## Bone&Stone (Jul 23, 2013)

Wagz said:


> Paranoid much? Those are LPRs, license plate readers, and simply check the registration through a database of stolen vehicles, arrest warrants, etc. They check thousands or more plates a day, there is no database keeping track of the time and location each plate was ran and cross referencing it. Its simply a way to help locate stolen vehicles and wanted individuals.


And where does your insider info come from? How do you know what there is or isnt a database of? Care to cite your source? Or are you stating your opinion?


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


I call BS on that RIGHT NOW! Its their JOB. read it in the regs.


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## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

Skeptic said:


> I believe this to be federal correct? If that's the case then the officers in every state need probable cause guys!


you dont know what probable cause is,......

all he needs is reasonable suspicion, probable cause is that amount of definable evidence that a crime has been committed to make an arrest,, he does not need probable cause to do his job, he can pursue his duties with reasonable suspicion or "patrolling" his area, looking for infractions...... no amount of "probable cause" is required to be looking for criminal activity... that is his job.....


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## richl35 (May 15, 2013)

TheWood!! said:


> Do folks call you a douche bag for doing your job? What do you do for a living? How are they supposed to make sure everybody is following the law if they can't go out and check people. Give me a break. I have found that people who don't like cops/wardens or whatever are usually folks who tend to bend the rules. This more than likely defines yourself.
> 
> And I know here in NM they don't have to have any suspision or a complaint to come onto private land and check you. The fact that you are out there with a weapon is reason enough. How do they know you are within the law if they don't go and check you. A lot of poachers would get away if laws were written like some of you would like them to be.


Ahhhhh..... no. Most people who don't like game wardens and cops are usually decent law abiding people who want them to go concentrate their efforts in a way that doesnt effect or interrupt them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Toonces said:


> I know a guy who wrote on his freezer in black marker that he had an expectation of privacy under the fourth amendment.


All depends on what action or circumstances that would cause a game warden to enter the property.


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

richl35 said:


> Ahhhhh..... no. Most people who don't like game wardens and cops are usually decent law abiding people who want them to go concentrate their efforts in a way that doesnt effect or interrupt them.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4


Ok, so how is a game warden supposed to know that you are a law abiding citizen if he/she does not interrupt you to make sure?


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## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

jayson2984 said:


> Yes there is! You don't follow a hunter to his tree stand. That's horse sh#¶. If the report is of baiting watch the area. Other than wait at the vehicle. Anything else is asking for trouble.
> 
> BTW it is not "their job" to walk in on you. That would be like a cop coming to the bar and checking your ID.:banghead:
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


your wrong on both counts, it is the wardens job, and if you are in a bar it is legal for an leo to check your id,,,,


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Fury90flier said:


> Not necessarily. All the officer needs is to say "suspicious activity".
> 
> Game Wardens are a little different. Though the laws vary from state to state, I bet if you read the rules and regulations you'll find that the GW can stop you at anytime he wants, not just when he observes and infaction.
> 
> ...


You missed the gist of the line that was going on brother. We were talking about Search and Seizure and general rules in the governance of warrant-less searches and open field/plain view doctrine that apply to LEO Officers. Read further and see my responses and posted citations from Florida Statute. Wardens have a different level of being able to violate the sanctity of private property. Warrant-less searches for them under exigent circumstances are much more common because game animals can be quickly consumed or evidence destroyed. They have been given a greater latitude in their abilities to search and seize because of this reason


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## Throw Back (Jan 28, 2012)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


No way man. Hunting/FIshing IS probable cause to check for violations. They can check you and your gear. I have been checked once while duck hunting for number of shells and if my gun was plugged.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> I know a guy who wrote on his freezer in black marker that he had an expectation of privacy under the fourth amendment.


You know how much illicit drugs I have found in the freezer....lol


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

trkytrack2 said:


> Don't know where you live but in Colorado they have more power than any other police office. They can enter any piece of property or home, search any person, automobile, truck and stop and detain any person without your permission or a warrant, anytime day or night.


I call :bs: Unless there has been a very recent constitutional amendment that I'm unaware of that can not do this LEGALLY!


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

Wagz said:


> Paranoid much? Those are LPRs, license plate readers, and simply check the registration through a database of stolen vehicles, arrest warrants, etc. They check thousands or more plates a day, there is no database keeping track of the time and location each plate was ran and cross referencing it. Its simply a way to help locate stolen vehicles and wanted individuals.


I have no access to the data, but was told that the information is stored - in WV anyways. I was told this by several state troopers who were using them. They were briefed on the ability to go back and search a particular license plate and find out every time it has been read, and where.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> You know how much illicit drugs I have found in the freezer....lol


So, you're outing yourself as a game warden? Lol.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

snoman4 said:


> You know how much illicit drugs I have found in the freezer....lol


They guy who wrote that on his freezer was a LEO, too.


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## richl35 (May 15, 2013)

TheWood!! said:


> Ok, so how is a game warden supposed to know that you are a law abiding citizen if he/she does not interrupt you to make sure?


Do you believe that they should be able to randomly come in and search your property and your home too? Based on your reasoning it seems like you would be okay with that. As far as I'm concerned if they don't have a reason to suspect that I'm doing something wrong then they have no reason to interrupt me or what i'm doing. I understand if I'm supposed to be fishing and a game warden is hearong dynamite blowing up under the water then I'm going to get a visit. But if he doesn't then as far as I'm concerned he has no right to interrupt what I'm doing. He has to suspect you of doing something wrong and something to backup the suspicion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

xman59 said:


> your wrong on both counts, it is the wardens job, and if you are in a bar it is legal for an leo to check your id,,,,


If a LEO is legally where is allowed to be, and you're there, he can check your ID, because there usually is an obligation for you to do so, if asked - depending on your state law. But that doesn't mean that he can come into your home and demand ID, or pull you over just to check your ID. He would be allowed to use a pretext to pull you over to check your ID however - such as a traffic violation.


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## mgaspari (Oct 14, 2010)

In Ohio the game wardens seem pretty good, I have been checked numerous times coming out of both public and private. They do log information such as plate number and location because the game warden pretty much told me where I had been hunting. I have never had one in the field but did have one leave a note on the back of his card on my windshield to call him when I got out. Called he he just asked if I had seen a certain truck in one of the areas that I hunt. So far I cannot complain about the Ohio DNR - seems like they are trying to do an impossible job.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Wagz said:


> Those are LPRs, license plate readers, and simply check the registration through a database of stolen vehicles, arrest warrants, etc. They check thousands or more plates a day, there is no database keeping track of the time and location each plate was ran and cross referencing it. Its simply a way to help locate stolen vehicles and wanted individuals.


The LPR information* IS* stored in a separate data base and is retrievable.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> So, you're outing yourself as a game warden? Lol.


Nope I used to be a Narcotics detective back in the day when I worked for a larger city PD.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> They guy who wrote that on his freezer was a LEO, too.


Classic.....He has probably found drugs in freezers before too....


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

richl35 said:


> Do you believe that they should be able to randomly come in and search your property and your home too? Based on your reasoning it seems like you would be okay with that. As far as I'm concerned if they don't have a reason to suspect that I'm doing something wrong then they have no reason to interrupt me or what i'm doing. I understand if I'm supposed to be fishing and a game warden is hearong dynamite blowing up under the water then I'm going to get a visit. But if he doesn't then as far as I'm concerned he has no right to interrupt what I'm doing. He has to suspect you of doing something wrong and something to backup the suspicion.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4


Hunting is a privilege brother and not a right. If you dont like the idea of being asked to show ID then do not hunt or buy the hunting license. It is called implied consent to being checked by purchasing the license and participating in a hunting activity. It is no different than implied consent to drawing your blood in a traffic accident that involves personal injury. If someone is injured your blood can and will be drawn without a warrant and against your will.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

snoman4 said:


> Hunting is a privilege brother and not a right. If you dont like the idea of being asked to show ID then do not hunt or buy the hunting license. It is called implied consent to being checked by purchasing the license and participating in a hunting activity. It is no different than implied consent to drawing your blood in a traffic accident that involves personal injury. If someone is injured your blood can and will be drawn without a warrant and against your will.


Maybe true, I don't know, but is this a good thing? As a former LEO you seem to think it is, I think your former profession may be clouding your judgment.


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

richl35 said:


> Do you believe that they should be able to randomly come in and search your property and your home too? Based on your reasoning it seems like you would be okay with that. As far as I'm concerned if they don't have a reason to suspect that I'm doing something wrong then they have no reason to interrupt me or what i'm doing. I understand if I'm supposed to be fishing and a game warden is hearong dynamite blowing up under the water then I'm going to get a visit. But if he doesn't then as far as I'm concerned he has no right to interrupt what I'm doing. He has to suspect you of doing something wrong and something to backup the suspicion.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4


All I hear is blah, blah, blah. I for am glad that they come in and check folks. I had a warden come in and check me while I was hunting private property last year. Didn't bother me a bit. A lot of poachers would get away with a lot if game wardens could not "interrupt" them. Good Lord man, think about it. Common sense seems to be a thing of the past for most people these days.


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

The more I read these posts the more I think a lot of you are left overs from that wacky cult from Waco. I bet you all think there is a Boogie Man under your beds too.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

snoman4 said:


> Hunting is a privilege brother and not a right. If you dont like the idea of being asked to show ID then do not hunt or buy the hunting license. .


You guys scare me. Answer this, how many times and how often is it ok for you to be stopped and commanded to show your papers? People wonder how times turn bad. Willingly is how it happens till it happens. 

It's a lot different than having your blood drawn, there's a cause and there better be, but in your world getting your blood drawn is all up to how many times, when and where an authority demands it.

You people really scare me.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> Maybe true, I don't know, but is this a good thing? As a former LEO you seem to think it is, I think your former profession may be clouding your judgment.


I still work as a LEO Officer. Implied Consent IMHO is a good thing in these two cases. It allows a person to be checked so that animals are not hunted to extinction like they almost were in the late 19th century. It gives the Officer the needed power to do his job plain and simple. With out the ability to check people how would a warden do his job effectively? If a driver is drunk and gets in a wreck and is dead or unconscious how can you tell if he was impaired without a blood test? Alcohol goes out of the system fairly quickly so by time they gain consciousness to give consent the alcohol may no longer be in their system. I have no problem with either. I get checked in Turkey season frequently. I was in a high speed chase of someone running on a warrant in 2003 and wrecked a patrol vehicle. My blood was taken with my consent to make sure I was not impaired although I was the only one injured. I did not wake up for over a week.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

Toonces said:


> Maybe true, I don't know, but is this a good thing? As a former LEO you seem to think it is, I think your former profession may be clouding your judgment.


Papers please!


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

nodog said:


> You guys scare me. Answer this, how many times and how often is it ok for you to be stopped and commanded to show your papers? People wonder how times turn bad. Willingly is how it happens till it happens.
> 
> It's a lot different than having your blood drawn, there's a cause and there better be, but in your world getting your blood drawn is all up to how many times, when and where an authority demands it.
> 
> You people really scare me.


NO some of you people scare me brother. There are reasons behind the game laws in general....Game was almost extinct in this country around the turn of the century due to market hunting. Being checked for game violations is a good thing IMHO if it lets us keep the hunting we have now. Talk to a hunter from the 1930-1950's. Many states had no deer season for 20 years or more because there was not a sustainable population to hunt. Hunters back then could go several years without seeing a deer much less killing one.


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## snake1127 (Sep 1, 2012)

3dn4jc said:


> I know that game wardens have allot of power, but to the OP question, I don't know in your state how far their authority reaches.



LOL, he's in Boone NC. I seen the first one yesterday in a black ford truck behind me.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

snoman4 said:


> I still work as a LEO Officer. Implied Consent IMHO is a good thing in these two cases. It allows a person to be checked so that animals are not hunted to extinction like they almost were in the late 19th century. It gives the Officer the needed power to do his job plain and simple. With out the ability to check people how would a warden do his job effectively? If a driver is drunk and gets in a wreck and is dead or unconscious how can you tell if he was impaired without a blood test? Alcohol goes out of the system fairly quickly so by time they gain consciousness to give consent the alcohol may no longer be in their system. I have no problem with either. I get checked in Turkey season frequently. I was in a high speed chase of someone running on a warrant in 2003 and wrecked a patrol vehicle. My blood was taken with my consent to make sure I was not impaired although I was the only one injured. I did not wake up for over a week.


So police that are unable to do random stops are not able to their job effectively? Why are wardens different?


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

nodog said:


> You guys scare me. Answer this, how many times and how often is it ok for you to be stopped and commanded to show your papers? People wonder how times turn bad. Willingly is how it happens till it happens.
> 
> It's a lot different than having your blood drawn, there's a cause and there better be, but in your world getting your blood drawn is all up to how many times, when and where an authority demands it.
> 
> You people really scare me.


I hope the next guy they don't check tresspasses onto your lease and shoots all of your deer without a lisense. I really, truly hope that happens. Would make for a brighter day.


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## SilentElk (Oct 6, 2004)

I occasionally see Game wardens driving in town but then again we have the local branch here and that's most of the traffic. I believe the OP has been answered thoroughly at this point. In truth, I am glad they are around and in fact I would be more than ok if there were more around. Personally, I don't feel poaching is rampant in our area. Of course, I don't exactly hang out with people that would poach so that may be skewed. Never seen a warden will hunting in the woods. Public or private lands. However, they do have a 6th sense and I have had them 3 times show up with an hr of removing one of my elk from the woods.

As said, be gald they are there. Otherwise we would have little game left. It would be annoying though to have them walk right in while hunting but is pretty much impossible to wait next more than a single truck all evening waiting for a hunter to walk out. Better to just walk up and ask for your liscense.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

TheWood!! said:


> I hope the next guy they don't check tresspasses onto your lease and shoots all of your deer without a lisense. I really, truly hope that happens. Would make for a brighter day.


Like I said you scare me. In your world only a police state is safe. 

Get a clue, freedom is your protection. I'd rather loose every deer and live free than live under a police state and never lose a deer to a poacher which you know as well as I do will still happen.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

TheWood!! said:


> The more I read these posts the more I think a lot of you are left overs from that wacky cult from Waco. I bet you all think there is a Boogie Man under your beds too.


Let me guess, you're a cop too? Ironic statement is ironic. You and the other guy remind me of the people at Waco too - the one's who killed innocent women and children in the name of the government. I suppose you also think Ruby Ridge turned out just fine?


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

snoman4 said:


> NO some of you people scare me brother. There are reasons behind the game laws in general....Game was almost extinct in this country around the turn of the century due to market hunting. Being checked for game violations is a good thing IMHO if it lets us keep the hunting we have now. Talk to a hunter from the 1930-1950's. Many states had no deer season for 20 years or more because there was not a sustainable population to hunt. Hunters back then could go several years without seeing a deer much less killing one.


I know full well why laws are created. When one person abuses another freedom for personal gain government is born, as the abuses grow so does government. No where in that is government being the answer, people getting along is the answer because the only thing government does when an abuse occurs is the removal of freedom.

People getting along is the answer, not every aspect of our lives being subject to inspection by the state and you didn't answer the question, how often?


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

nodog said:


> Papers please!


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## newview (Sep 28, 2010)

MiamiValleyYoop said:


> Game wardens can come on private and public land for any reason they want. In any state, it's part of the federal game laws.


That's correct. They don't need to be in uniform either! Not all landowners are completely honest. How else would taxpayers insure the game laws are being followed?


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## snake1127 (Sep 1, 2012)

LawyerUp said:


> Let me guess, you're a cop too? Ironic statement is ironic. You and the other guy remind me of the people at Waco too - the one's who killed innocent women and children in the name of the government. I suppose you also think Ruby Ridge turned out just fine?


Wow, I'd never heard of that one before.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> So police that are unable to do random stops are not able to their job effectively? Why are wardens different?


This one is hard to explain but I will try and give what I feel on these questions: 

First and foremost we as a society have placed a premium on preserving our game animals for future generations as a sustainable resource because they were almost hunted to extinction. A Warden is given more latitude in certain areas like search and seizure to accomplish this goal. Game laws have fines and very rarely jail time. So although the certain acts are crimes related to game animals people very rarely lose their freedom over them. Most times they get a fine and nothing more. So although the Warden has more latitude and power the results of his efforts results in the offender losing their money most times and not their freedom. In a sense the extra power he has results in less punishment on the end. The fines for game violations are more along the lines of traffic infractions which are minor when compared to crimes against persons or real property.

Some other differences to remember are that a Police Officer works a much smaller geographical area with help close by whereas a Warden that is on foot in the mountains or the swamps could be several hours from getting any help and many miles from his vehicle. A suspect can get rid of evidence in a large geographical area never to be found or disappear altogether himself if the Warden does not check him or search him. Police Officers many times are dealing with known individuals in their patrol area. A Warden is going to be dealing with more unknown and armed individuals on an everyday basis when compared to a Police Officer. A lone hunter in the mountains or swamp if not identified can disappear never to be found again whereas a police officer has a much easier time identifying people by their neighbors, tags, work place, traffic and other types of cameras. I can go on and on but Wardens have a much harder job IMHO due to his time and geography constraints.


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> Let me guess, you're a cop too? Ironic statement is ironic. You and the other guy remind me of the people at Waco too - the one's who killed innocent women and children in the name of the government. I suppose you also think Ruby Ridge turned out just fine?


Nope, Not a cop. Don't want to be. I am in the medical field. But I don't run around being pissed off at wardens because they are doing their job. And thanks for the kind words, but I am no murderer. I'm sure one of these pissed off hunters will probably take out a cop or two in anger because one of them ruined their precious little hunt.


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

There are different levels of evidence starting with reasonable suspicion and moving up to Clear and Convincing evidence. Reaonable suspicion is all it takes for a Game Warden to search you. That is as little as hearing a boat motor, gun shot, or seeing you with any evidence of game, hunting equipment, or fishing equipment. So if you have a fishing pole or gun in your possession they can search you. If they can see you from the road with hunting equipment they can search you and your vehicle. 

I don't see anything wrong with this law, and again they have to have reasonable suspicion. A game warden can not just come on your property because they "think" you are hunting or fishing, they have to have some sort of suspicion that you are.


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

Too much AT fries your Brain..... this thread is proof!!!


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

TheWood!! said:


> Nope, Not a cop. Don't want to be. I am in the medical field. But I don't run around being pissed off at wardens because they are doing their job. And thanks for the kind words, but I am no murderer. I'm sure one of these pissed off hunters will probably take out a cop or two in anger because one of them ruined their precious little hunt.


You brought up Waco. I just thought it was ironic.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

nodog said:


> I know full well why laws are created. When one person abuses another freedom for personal gain government is born, as the abuses grow so does government. No where in that is government being the answer, people getting along is the answer because the only thing government does when an abuse occurs is the removal of freedom.
> 
> People getting along is the answer, not every aspect of our lives being subject to inspection by the state and you didn't answer the question, how often?


People will never get along on this earth brother. You sound like one of those utopian commune types to me. Man is flawed and will always be. Human nature is to abuse others or things for the most part for our own personal gain. If you want to talk about that loss of freedom look at our forefathers in the 1800's and early 1900's that almost destroyed the resource. They screwed up and we acknowledge they did and wanted to keep the resource so we made laws to protect game for our future generations to enjoy. I am glad they did. I listened to the stories of the old timers around the camp fire growing up and am glad we have as many different and plentiful of game to hunt now compared to what they had. We as a society proved we can not be trusted with protecting game animals. We have no one to blame but our citizenry for the games laws we have. It was no different with the Redfish and Trout fishery here in Florida in the 1980's. They were almost wiped out by greed and commercial fishing. Now they have made a strong comeback and the regulations that were in place have been relaxed somewhat. We as a society are our own worst enemies. 

To answer your question we should show our papers as many times as society as a whole deems fit, whether it be 0 or 50.

BTW without all the game laws and licenses all the public land we like to hunt might be in the hands of the few or in strip malls. Conservation IMHO has been a great thing for the resource. It is no good to have conservation if their is no enforcement. A law without threat of punishment/fine is about as good as the paper it is written on.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Maybe in your state.. No RS or PC needed to go onto property to check a hunter in IN










Baldona523 said:


> There are different levels of evidence starting with reasonable suspicion and moving up to Clear and Convincing evidence. Reaonable suspicion is all it takes for a Game Warden to search you. That is as little as hearing a boat motor, gun shot, or seeing you with any evidence of game, hunting equipment, or fishing equipment. So if you have a fishing pole or gun in your possession they can search you. If they can see you from the road with hunting equipment they can search you and your vehicle.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with this law, and again they have to have reasonable suspicion. A game warden can not just come on your property because they "think" you are hunting or fishing, they have to have some sort of suspicion that you are.


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

rodney482 said:


> Maybe in your state.. No RS or PC needed to go onto property to check a hunter in IN


Umm, yeah man okay that makes no sense. As you said, 'check a hunter'. A Warden has to have some belief that you are hunting, and therefore Reasonable Suspicion. A game warden can't just check a farmer in the fields for hunting and write him a ticket for hunting while he uses his tractor. A game warden can not just come onto your private property unless they have reasonable suspicion that you are hunting or fishing, thus RS that you are a hunter or a fisherman.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> People will never get along on this earth brother. You sound like one of those utopian commune types to me. Man is flawed and will always be. Human nature is to abuse others or things for the most part for our own personal gain. If you want to talk about that loss of freedom look at our forefathers in the 1800's and early 1900's that almost destroyed the resource. They screwed up and we acknowledge they did and wanted to keep the resource so we made laws to protect game for our future generations to enjoy. I am glad they did. I listened to the stories of the old timers around the camp fire growing up and am glad we have as many different and plentiful of game to hunt now compared to what they had. We as a society proved we can not be trusted with protecting game animals. We have no one to blame but our citizenry for the games laws we have. It was no different with the Redfish and Trout fishery here in Florida in the 1980's. They were almost wiped out by greed and commercial fishing. Now they have made a strong comeback and the regulations that were in place have been relaxed somewhat. We as a society are our own worst enemies.
> 
> To answer your question we should show our papers as many times as society as a whole deems fit, whether it be 0 or 50.


Man I'm glad I don't live in FL anymore - you get tired of people from up north telling you how you've been doing it wrong. The redfish fishing was just fine in places like Cedar Key before the entire community was put out of business by the do-gooder environmentalists.

And the lack of deer in the early 20th century was not due to people just over-hunting - it was due to deforestation and commercial hunting. But thanks for the lecture.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

snoman4 said:


> This one is hard to explain but I will try and give what I feel on these questions:
> 
> First and foremost we as a society have placed a premium on preserving our game animals for future generations as a sustainable resource because they were almost hunted to extinction. A Warden is given more latitude in certain areas like search and seizure to accomplish this goal. Game laws have fines and very rarely jail time. So although the certain acts are crimes related to game animals people very rarely lose their freedom over them. Most times they get a fine and nothing more. So although the Warden has more latitude and power the results of his efforts results in the offender losing their money most times and not their freedom. In a sense the extra power he has results in less punishment on the end. The fines for game violations are more along the lines of traffic infractions which are minor when compared to crimes against persons or real property.
> 
> Some other differences to remember are that a Police Officer works a much smaller geographical area with help close by whereas a Warden that is on foot in the mountains or the swamps could be several hours from getting any help and many miles from his vehicle. A suspect can get rid of evidence in a large geographical area never to be found or disappear altogether himself if the Warden does not check him or search him. Police Officers many times are dealing with known individuals in their patrol area. A Warden is going to be dealing with more unknown and armed individuals on an everyday basis when compared to a Police Officer. A lone hunter in the mountains or swamp if not identified can disappear never to be found again whereas a police officer has a much easier time identifying people by their neighbors, tags, work place, traffic and other types of cameras. I can go on and on but Wardens have a much harder job IMHO due to his time and geography constraints.


So an increase in the difficulty level of enforcing certain laws causes a decrease in individual rights relative to those laws. I disagree, but it makes sense.

It does beg the question though, if enforcement is so exceedingly difficult that they require an erosion of civil rights, and the penalties are so low as to be almost inconsequential, why have the laws at all?


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Show me some case law on an officer coming onto your property to talk with you....








Baldona523 said:


> Umm, yeah man okay that makes no sense. As you said, 'check a hunter'. A Warden has to have some belief that you are hunting, and therefore Reasonable Suspicion. A game warden can't just check a farmer in the fields for hunting and write him a ticket for hunting while he uses his tractor. A game warden can not just come onto your private property unless they have reasonable suspicion that you are hunting or fishing, thus RS that you are a hunter or a fisherman.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> So an increase in the difficulty level of enforcing certain laws causes a decrease in individual rights relative to those laws. I disagree, but it makes sense.
> 
> It does beg the question though, if enforcement is so exceedingly difficult that they require an erosion of civil rights, and the penalties are so low as to be almost inconsequential, why have the laws at all?


Because we as a society have deemed it important to protect the resource from being hunted/killed/slaughtered to extinction would be the reason IMHO. If society had not deemed it important we would not have the law.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

I've said this before here, many times. 

If you're the type who gets "harassed" by L.E. on a regular basis, and/or have a "problem" with cops...most likely it's because of YOU, and not them.


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

Baldona523 said:


> Umm, yeah man okay that makes no sense. As you said, 'check a hunter'. A Warden has to have some belief that you are hunting, and therefore Reasonable Suspicion. A game warden can't just check a farmer in the fields for hunting and write him a ticket for hunting while he uses his tractor. A game warden can not just come onto your private property unless they have reasonable suspicion that you are hunting or fishing, thus RS that you are a hunter or a fisherman.


Ummmm, I think that is the whole point. Nobody has said wardens are going out and checking farmers plowing their fields. It is not really hard to pick out a hunter/fisherman. They normally have guns or bows or fishing poles. You get the point right? I take that back, after reading your post again, you might not get it AT ALL.


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## davydtune (Apr 27, 2007)

bsites9 said:


> I've said this before here, many times.
> 
> If you're the type who gets "harassed" by L.E. on a regular basis, and/or have a "problem" with cops...most likely it's because of YOU, and not them.


Very true


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

bsites9 said:


> I've said this before here, many times.
> 
> If you're the type who gets "harassed" by L.E. on a regular basis, and/or have a "problem" with cops...most likely it's because of YOU, and not them.


Amen brother!!! I have said it here too. If you are getting "harrassed" by cops or are one of the ones complaining about cops/wardens doing their jobs, there is probably good reason. Most people I know who have problems with law enforcement are the guys who tend to like to "bend" the rules a little.


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

rodney482 said:


> Show me some case law on an officer coming onto your property to talk with you....


What are you even asking me to do here? 

If an officer has reasonable suspicion that you are a hunter, like you are in camo or carrying a gun, than that officer has the legal right to check your license and search you for game. That is my point. What I was saying was the same thing as you are saying. 

You are saying that the officer does not need RS to check a hunter, and that is not factual. The officer needs RS to check a citizen, if the citizen is a hunter than that is RS enough to search.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

They really should have criminal law (fed and state) in school.

Most people learn law from family and friends then you have what we have here today..A failure to communicate.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Ugh..... 





Baldona523 said:


> What are you even asking me to do here?
> 
> If an officer has reasonable suspicion that you are a hunter, like you are in camo or carrying a gun, than that officer has the legal right to check your license and search you for game. That is my point. What I was saying was the same thing as you are saying.
> 
> You are saying that the officer does not need RS to check a hunter, and that is not factual. The officer needs RS to check a citizen, if the citizen is a hunter than that is RS enough to search.


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

TheWood!! said:


> Ummmm, I think that is the whole point. Nobody has said wardens are going out and checking farmers plowing their fields. It is not really hard to pick out a hunter/fisherman. They normally have guns or bows or fishing poles. You get the point right? I take that back, after reading your post again, you might not get it AT ALL.



Yes that is my point. If you are hunting, that is RS for a game warden to check your license, make sure you are hunting legally, and check you for game. A game warden needs reasonable suspicion that a citizen is hunting. So if you are carrying a weapon or fishing pole, that is reasonable suspicion and makes it legal to search you.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

snoman4 said:


> Because we as a society have deemed it important to protect the resource from being hunted/killed/slaughtered to extinction would be the reason IMHO. If society had not deemed it important we would not have the law.


No, No, No, society determines which criminal laws are important by the penalties that attached to them. 

Murder is important because of the heavy penalty attached. 

You already said that the penalties associated with game laws are inconsequential, so their importance to society is also inconsequential. Most hunting violations have the relative importance of jay walking or double parking. Society has deemed hunting violations to be completely irrelevant by comparison to other violations. 

So again, why have the laws?


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

Baldona523 said:


> Yes that is my point. If you are hunting, that is RS for a game warden to check your license, make sure you are hunting legally, and check you for game. A game warden needs reasonable suspicion that a citizen is hunting. So if you are carrying a weapon or fishing pole, that is reasonable suspicion and makes it legal to search you.


Exactly, so where does the farmer come in? I think we all agree with everything else said, just not sure what the farmer on his tractor has to do with it.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> Man I'm glad I don't live in FL anymore - you get tired of people from up north telling you how you've been doing it wrong. The redfish fishing was just fine in places like Cedar Key before the entire community was put out of business by the do-gooder environmentalists.
> 
> And the lack of deer in the early 20th century was not due to people just over-hunting - it was due to deforestation and commercial hunting. But thanks for the lecture.


Brother I was born up North but raised in the South I speak with a Florida Cracker accent and have been here since I was less than 2. My Father was in the military. My mother's family is one of the original Florida families having been here since the 1700's. I fished Cedar Key, Suwannee, Steinhatchee, St. Marks, Horseshoe, Keaton Beach, and Dekle Beach areas since I was just out of diapers. I saw first hand what the redfish and trout fishing was like in the late 80's and early 90's and what it is now. It is 10 times better now. Cedar Key is definitely not out of business either. Was just there a few weeks ago and it was more alive than it was in the 1980's that is for sure. 

BTW I said that market hunting was the cause of game population decline in an earlier post and deforestation actually helps deer habitat. Old growth forests can not and do not sustain a healthy deer herd.


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

TheWood!! said:


> Exactly, so where does the farmer come in? I think we all agree with everything else said, just not sure what the farmer on his tractor has to do with it.


He said that you don't need reasonable suspicion to check a hunter. My point, was that if you are a hunter that is reasonable suspicion that you are not just a plain citizen in the woods and therefore enough for a warden to check you.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

TheWood!! said:


> Amen brother!!! I have said it here too. If you are getting "harrassed" by cops or are one of the ones complaining about cops/wardens doing their jobs, there is probably good reason. Most people I know who have problems with law enforcement are the guys who tend to like to "bend" the rules a little.


In many states that is true. Here there are not enough game wardens to harass people, even if they wanted to. They are busy doing what they can to catch the poachers and responding to complaints. Most likely, if you have al run-in with them, you were doing something wrong. But FL is much, much different. They run in packs of half a dozen, or more, at all times. They have plenty of time on their hands, and plenty of toys - like helicopters. They treat you like a criminal, and they're rude - despite the fact that they came onto your property and caught you doing nothing wrong. Unless you've witnessed it, you wouldn't understand.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

the real issue is what constitutes reasonable suspicion. What you or I believe would be considered "reasonable" has nothing to do with what the officer believes...it's what would a reasonable prudent person believe--that isn't well informed of the laws.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

I see a guy standing by a woods on private property..I can cross that property and speak with him... No suspicion.. No cause needed.

I dont need to see a gun or a pole or an orange hat.. I dont need a warrant or any exigent circumstance.

Open ground privacy is quite a bit different than searching you house or stop and frisk on the sidewalk.








Baldona523 said:


> Yes that is my point. If you are hunting, that is RS for a game warden to check your license, make sure you are hunting legally, and check you for game. A game warden needs reasonable suspicion that a citizen is hunting. So if you are carrying a weapon or fishing pole, that is reasonable suspicion and makes it legal to search you.


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## davydtune (Apr 27, 2007)

snoman4 said:


> Old growth forests can not and do not sustain a healthy deer herd.


That is a fact that many do not understand


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> Brother I was born up North but raised in the South I speak with a Florida Cracker accent and have been here since I was less than 2. My Father was in the military. My mother's family is one of the original Florida families having been here since the 1700's. I fished Cedar Key, Suwannee, Steinhatchee, St. Marks, Horseshoe, Keaton Beach, and Dekle Beach areas since I was just out of diapers. I saw first hand what the redfish and trout fishing was like in the late 80's and early 90's and what it is now. It is 10 times better now. Cedar Key is definitely not out of business either. Was just there a few weeks ago and it was more alive than it was in the 1980's that is for sure.
> 
> BTW I said that market hunting was the cause of game population decline in an earlier post and deforestation actually helps deer habitat. Old growth forests can not and do not sustain a healthy deer herd.


Since the 1700's huh? Was your mother Spanish?


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Toonces said:


> No, No, No, society determines which criminal laws are important by the penalties that attached to them.
> 
> Murder is important because of the heavy penalty attached.
> 
> ...


Laws are like locks brother.....They will keep an honest man honest if their is some form of punishment attached to it. Without that fear of punishment many people would do as they please. Even though we have made the punishment small the fear keeps many from breaking the law in most cases. We in many ways hold our game animals as somewhat sacred and want to protect them from annihilation. People also know that we almost had no animals to hunt and the hardships the hunters 3-4 generations before endured with no game to hunt and I think that plays into it as well. The vast majority of society as a whole does not break the law and the same is true of hunters. It is the very few that do that make it worse on all of us.


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## JTClark (Feb 16, 2013)

our game warden have respects for hunters, i got checked by game warden when i get out of woods in dark and he ask me if i see any deers i say see some so they are hunting for spotlight poachers around here....


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

davydtune said:


> That is a fact that many do not understand


And neither does clear cutting open fields and leaving no cover for the deer. Our hunting in FL, which is mostly forested, improved tenfold when a nearby guy cut tens of thousands of acre to create a cattle ranch.


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

rodney482 said:


> I see a guy standing by a woods on private property..I can cross that property and speak with him... No suspicion.. No cause needed.
> 
> I dont need to see a gun or a pole or an orange hat.. I dont need a warrant or any exigent circumstance.
> 
> Open ground privacy is quite a bit different than searching you house or stop and frisk on the sidewalk.


I agree with you. But you can't search my vehicle for game and you don't need to check my hunting license. But if I had my bow with me, you could do both.

My other response to coming onto private property, was more like going through woods. A game warden can't just drive through your private property looking for someone hunting. If they have reasonable suspicion that there is someone hunting on the property they can then enter it, but they can't enter the property looking for reasonable suspicion.


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

LawyerUp said:


> Since the 1700's huh? Was your mother Spanish?


You do realize Florida wasn't 100% full of Spaniards right? You also know what assimilation is right?

Also snoman4, what is a cracker accent?


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## pa.hunter (Jan 3, 2008)

Skeptic said:


> They still need PROBABLE CAUSE!!! They can't just do it to mess with you.


oh i herd a gun shot in distance is PROBABLE CAUSE!!!


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

pa.hunter said:


> oh i herd a gun shot in distance is PROBABLE CAUSE!!!


Yes actually, but they don't need probably cause the just need reasonable suspicion.

I had my vehicle and my boat searched in Florida because a gunshot was reported on the lake I was gator hunting. I never heard the shot. But we had a dead gator, equipment, and they had reasonable suspicion.


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## davydtune (Apr 27, 2007)

LawyerUp said:


> And neither does clear cutting open fields and leaving no cover for the deer. Our hunting in FL, which is mostly forested, improved tenfold when a nearby guy cut tens of thousands of acre to create a cattle ranch.


Yep. I've been listening to a ton of belly aching up here because our game commission is clearing large tracts on some of our game lands, lands that were formerly old growth. I keep telling them how good it's gonna be but people don't like change and they don't like what they don't understand.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> Since the 1700's huh? Was your mother Spanish?


Nope English and Cherokee Indian originally from the GA, SC, and NC tri-border area.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

BlenderBottle said:


> You do realize Florida wasn't 100% full of Spaniards right? You also know what assimilation is right?
> 
> Also snoman4, what is a cracker accent?


Florida Crackers tend to be from the Northern portion of Florida but is used for original Florida settlers from before the Civil War.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> Nope English and Cherokee Indian originally from the GA, SC, and NC tri-border area.


My family was in the GA/SC area in the 1700's, and then went to FL following the Seminole Wars, after they fought in them. They would have had a hard time moving there prior to the Seminoles being pushed into the everglades - unless they were Spanish - which is why I asked.


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

LawyerUp said:


> My family was in the GA/SC area in the 1700's, and then went to FL following the Seminole Wars, after they fought in them. They would have had a hard time moving there prior to the Seminoles being pushed into the everglades - unless they were Spanish - which is why I asked.


Sorry man = \ jumped to conclusions on your statement.


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

Place your bet's folks .. I say 20 pages..


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> My family was in the GA/SC area in the 1700's, and then went to FL following the Seminole Wars, after they fought in them. They would have had a hard time moving there prior to the Seminoles being pushed into the everglades - unless they were Spanish - which is why I asked.


Britain gained control of Florida in the 1700's brother. Lots of old British families are in Florida from before the Seminole Wars and most were from GA, SC, and NC.


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

BlenderBottle said:


> Sorry man = \ jumped to conclusions on your statement.


No problem. Read the book "A Land Remembered" if you want to know about the Florida Cracker thing. It's a great read.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

LawyerUp said:


> No problem. Read the book "A Land Remembered" if you want to know about the Florida Cracker thing. It's a great read.


Florida Cracker was also another name for cowboys in Florida as well.....


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## Greenmachine69 (Sep 6, 2013)

I had the absolute worst shake down last year most of us in the club have ever seen. He blocked me off in the Wendy's drive through line! My freakin burger got cold because of that dumbass


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## LawyerUp (Sep 18, 2012)

snoman4 said:


> Britain gained control of Florida in the 1700's brother. Lots of old British families are in Florida from before the Seminole Wars and most were from GA, SC, and NC.


But the Spanish got it back in 1783 and the U.S. didn't get it until the 1820's. Even the settlements in GA were raided by the Seminoles from then-eastern FL (i.e., not Louisiana) until we went down there and fixed the problem.


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## crazy4hunting (Feb 4, 2006)

wipy said:


> dnr>god...... at least thats how they act.
> I had 2 years ago a co walk on my private land to check me on nov 9 when the rut was kicking. I checked out and was doing nothing wrong but i was not very happy with him and i let him know my mind about it. I pay taxes and own the land and all year stay scent free and all the crap he and comes walking in just to check me it was just ridicoluos imo. therefore i am not a big fan of wi dnr they pretty much do what they want and when they want they are a joke. But yet i got 2 cameras stolen the year before and called them to tell them about it and where the person tracks went in the snow and the warden never even returned my call.... WI dnr for you.


Very different for me. The warden I've met has been nothing but nice. Also grew up next to a famous one. Also no problems. Met others on the atv, no problems. People own land, not the resource. Their there for the resource


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

Im certain many of these people who get visits by DNR or wardens or LEO just have attitude problems. You treat them nice and know that they have a job to do, and they will do the same for you. If you nit pick at everything they do and hate them, then, well you'll just have to live with it. I guaranty you'll get a better response from them if you treat them nicer.


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

Greenmachine69 said:


> I had the absolute worst shake down last year most of us in the club have ever seen. He blocked me off in the Wendy's drive through line! My freakin burger got cold because of that dumbass


You sir are one of those that a few of us are talking about. You are the problem.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

BlenderBottle said:


> Im certain many of these people who get visits by DNR or wardens or LEO just have attitude problems. You treat them nice and know that they have a job to do, and they will do the same for you. If you nit pick at everything they do and hate them, then, well you'll just have to live with it. I guaranty you'll get a better response from them if you treat them nicer.


I think it's a mistake to think that when your being questioned by any LEO that they are your friend and there for your benefit. They are not there to be your friend and not there to be treated "nice". It is perfectly reasonable to treat them at arms length and be protective of your rights at all times. I think some LEO's may view being cautious and protective as having an attitude problem.


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

Sure I understand toonces, but the more of wall you put up, the more suspicious you look. If you're not doing anything illegal you don't have anything to worry about.

There is a fine line on things he should be asking reasonably and a fine line of what you should defend if you don't want to piss him off.


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

Toonces said:


> I think it's a mistake to think that when your being questioned by any LEO that they are your friend and there for your benefit. They are not there to be your friend and not there to be treated "nice". It is perfectly reasonable to treat them at arms length and be protective of your rights at all times. I think some LEO's may view being cautious and protective as having an attitude problem.


Are you being serious? You really think a LEO is going to think that someone being courteous has something to hide? I know multiple LEO's and had this conversation many times, and I can guarantee you that the bigger the jerk you are the faster they will get out their ticket book or handcuffs. 

I have been stopped many times by Wardens, some have been jerks and some have been very nice, and I have always been very nice, understanding, and never deserved nor received a violation.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

BlenderBottle said:


> Sure I understand toonces, but the more of wall you put up, the more suspicious you look. If you're not doing anything illegal you don't have anything to worry about.
> 
> There is a fine line on things he should be asking reasonably and a fine line of what you should defend if you don't want to piss him off.


My feeling is if your being questioned by an LEO say as little as possible. Be polite respectful and silent. I think people tend to volunteer more information than is necessary when dealing with LEO's. You don't have to rude or combative, but you don't have to be overly cooperative either.


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Baldona523 said:


> Are you being serious? You really think a LEO is going to think that someone being courteous has something to hide? I know multiple LEO's and had this conversation many times, and I can guarantee you that the bigger the jerk you are the faster they will get out their ticket book or handcuffs.
> 
> I have been stopped many times by Wardens, some have been jerks and some have been very nice, and I have always been very nice, understanding, and never deserved nor received a violation.


I agree 100%. You do not have to be buddy buddy or kiss their azz but respectful and curteous can go a long ways. If you are honest and straightforward that will go even further. Example if you get pulled over and they ask you if you know why you were pulled over. Answering with a I don't know will get you nowhere. Better off saying yes, because I was doing 65 in a 55, I'm sorry. They are not out there (for the most part) to harass you and be a jerk off. But if you are hard to deal with or a liar they will slap you with what ever they can. If your a woman just cry and/or show them your boobs. I showed them mine once but they werent impressed. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

Toonces said:


> My feeling is if your being questioned by an LEO say as little as possible. Be polite respectful and silent. I think people tend to volunteer more information than is necessary when dealing with LEO's. You don't have to rude or combative, but you don't have to be overly cooperative either.


You don't have to be overly cooperative no, but unless youre lying, there is probably a good chance the warden will go bug someone else faster than if you offer up less information. As long as you're not doing anythign illegal, it shouldn't matter how much information you divulge in your hunting activities when talking with the warden


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

Baldona523 said:


> Are you being serious? You really think a LEO is going to think that someone being courteous has something to hide? I know multiple LEO's and had this conversation many times, and I can guarantee you that the bigger the jerk you are the faster they will get out their ticket book or handcuffs.
> 
> I have been stopped many times by Wardens, some have been jerks and some have been very nice, and I have always been very nice, understanding, and never deserved nor received a violation.


Yes I am being serious. There is no reason to carry on idle conversation with LEO's or treat them like buddies. If they ask for relevant information give it to them. If they ask you something irrelevant, just refuse to answer. No big deal and its not being rude or having a bad attitude.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

Toonces said:


> My feeling is if your being questioned by an LEO say as little as possible. Be polite respectful and silent. I think people tend to volunteer more information than is necessary when dealing with LEO's. You don't have to rude or combative, but you don't have to be overly cooperative either.


If an officer has enough information on any wrong doing they are going to (or at least should) write you a citation regardless of what you may say to them. If they do not have enough information on any wrong doing to write you a ticket they just may gain enough information the more a person talks.

A lot of wisdom in just keeping your mouth shut. Give the equivalent of name, rank and serial number and leave it at that.


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

Toonces said:


> I think it's a mistake to think that when your being questioned by any LEO that they are your friend and there for your benefit. They are not there to be your friend and not there to be treated "nice". It is perfectly reasonable to treat them at arms length and be protective of your rights at all times. I think some LEO's may view being cautious and protective as having an attitude problem.


I think there is a time and a place to hold the brass accountable for what their officers do. Using LE as a way to shake down citizens like they're an ATM machine should be dealt with with harsh measures. That's usually a top down attitude. Fire their arse, we're supposedly free Americans.The average LE I have no problems with.


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

Toonces said:


> Yes I am being serious. There is no reason to carry on idle conversation with LEO's or treat them like buddies. If they ask for relevant information give it to them. If they ask you something irrelevant, just refuse to answer. No big deal and its not being rude or having a bad attitude.


FYI, if you are treating your restaurant waiters the same way you have been eating a lot of Spit burgers. 

The funny thing is, a guy like you with a gun hunting is a very scary guy to talk to. Then you wonder why the cops are treating you so forcefully, because being a jerk with a gun is not something that makes people comfortable.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

Kb83 said:


> I agree 100%. You do not have to be buddy buddy or kiss their azz but respectful and curteous can go a long ways. If you are honest and straightforward that will go even further. Example if you get pulled over and they ask you if you know why you were pulled over. Answering with a I don't know will get you nowhere. Better off saying yes, because I was doing 65 in a 55, I'm sorry. They are not out there (for the most part) to harass you and be a jerk off. But if you are hard to deal with or a liar they will slap you with what ever they can. If your a woman just cry and/or show them your boobs. I showed them mine once but they werent impressed.
> 
> sent from my LG Escape.


See I disagree completely on that. I would never ever admit to an LEO I broke a law, even it was just doing 10 miles over the speed limit. They have the burden to prove I broke the law. I am not obligated to help them do it.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

Why a person should never talk to a LEO ..... 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

swilk said:


> If an officer has enough information on any wrong doing they are going to (or at least should) write you a citation regardless of what you may say to them. If they do not have enough information on any wrong doing to write you a ticket they just may gain enough information the more a person talks.
> 
> A lot of wisdom in just keeping your mouth shut. Give the equivalent of name, rank and serial number and leave it at that.


As stated previously, if you haven't broken any hunting laws, you should be fine. The less friendly you talk with them and the more you holdback, the more suspicious you will look. That = more time with your unhappy self. In the end sure you'll come off free and irritated, but you just lost 30 minutes and possibly scared off all the game.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

Baldona523 said:


> FYI, if you are treating your restaurant waiters the same way you have been eating a lot of Spit burgers.
> 
> The funny thing is, a guy like you with a gun hunting is a very scary guy to talk to. Then you wonder why the cops are treating you so forcefully, because being a jerk with a gun is not something that makes people comfortable.


I have never had a cop treat me unfairly, and I have never treated a cop unfairly. The last cop I talked to that asked me a question I didn't want to answer I just said "no comment". He was fine with that. No big deal.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

BlenderBottle said:


> As stated previously, if you haven't broken any hunting laws, you should be fine. The less friendly you talk with them and the more you holdback, the more suspicious you will look. That = more time with your unhappy self. In the end sure you'll come off free and irritated, but you just lost 30 minutes and possibly scared off all the game.



I dont care how suspicious I look .... if the LEO has enough information to write me a ticket he should write me a ticket.

If he does not have enough information to write me a ticket he should check what he needs to check and send me on my way.


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## Hoyt04 (Mar 23, 2012)

It's only BS if you have something to hide. Come out when ever you want. I only hope they are around more to deal with poachers.



hunt1up said:


> I know we need enforcement of our laws but that fact that game wardens can come onto private property without a warrant is BS!


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## Yichi (Dec 18, 2008)

I never had a problem with the Warden near where we hunt. We got checked one november getting ready to go out for a morning bowhunt at the boat ramp. Nice guy. He approached us and asked the usual questions, we showed him the info he asked for, he checked what he needed to and saw we had nothing to hide and everything was in order, chatted with us a little bit and we found he was an avid hunter as well. He has even gone duck hunting with us on more than one occasion.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

Toonces said:


> See I disagree completely on that. I would never ever admit to an LEO I broke a law, even it was just doing 10 miles over the speed limit. They have the burden to prove I broke the law. I am not obligated to help them do it.


I actually called an LEO once to tell him I may have broken a law that was not cut and dry in the hunting book and I wanted clarification so as not to do it again. He appreciated that I was forthcoming and he actually did not know the answer offhand and had to look it up in his thick law book he carried in his car. Turned out I did break the law. He was appreciative of me getting clarification and told me he could never write someone a ticket if they honestly didn't realize they were breaking a law. He even gave me examples where people took fish that were to small out of the lake and bragged about the great day they had to him when they got them out to show him, proud as could be. Now I'm sure there are officers that are completely the opposite but I think most appreciate honesty. What they don't like is someone trying to get away with something.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

Hoyt04 said:


> It's only BS if you have something to hide. Come out when ever you want. I only hope they are around more to deal with poachers.


I disagree somewhat. If they want to check me as I go out or come in I understand. For them to just stomp around my woods without probable cause to be there I'd take huge issue with. If I didn't mind my hunts getting ruined I'd hunt our family ground or public that is near by.


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

swilk said:


> I dont care how suspicious I look .... if the LEO has enough information to write me a ticket he should write me a ticket.
> 
> If he does not have enough information to write me a ticket he should check what he needs to check and send me on my way.


Sure we can sit here all day and debate what the LEO should do. Fact of the matter is, if you act more suspicious and look more suspicious, they're going to question you more and stay with you more as they should.

It would be wrong for the warden to walk away from a suspicious individual if the warden felt the individual was doing something illegal. You would be the first one to attack LE if you somehow got hurt from someone that the LE had just questioned but just walked away after the normal set of questions given to everyone.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

BlenderBottle said:


> Sure we can sit here all day and debate what the LEO should do. Fact of the matter is, if you act more suspicious and look more suspicious, they're going to question you more and stay with you more as they should.
> 
> It would be wrong for the warden to walk away from a suspicious individual if the warden felt the individual was doing something illegal. You would be the first one to attack LE if you somehow got hurt from someone that the LE had just questioned but just walked away after the normal set of questions given to everyone.


No it would be wrong for the warden to unlawfully detain an individual because the warden had a feeling the individual was doing something illegal.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

BlenderBottle said:


> Sure we can sit here all day and debate what the LEO should do. Fact of the matter is, if you act more suspicious and look more suspicious, they're going to question you more and stay with you more as they should.
> 
> It would be wrong for the warden to walk away from a suspicious individual if the warden felt the individual was doing something illegal. You would be the first one to attack LE if you somehow got hurt from someone that the LE had just questioned but just walked away after the normal set of questions given to everyone.


Uh huh. You do it your way and I will do it mine.


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Toonces said:


> See I disagree completely on that. I would never ever admit to an LEO I broke a law, even it was just doing 10 miles over the speed limit. They have the burden to prove I broke the law. I am not obligated to help them do it.


They clocked you at it. They have the proof. Where is lying going to get you? 

Now I can agree with a more serious crime. You hire a lawyer and let them prove it in court. I don't plan on ever committing any of those. 

Over all a little be of respect and being compliant will go a long ways. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Sometimes being professional and honest will get you out of a ticket


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

Toonces said:


> See I disagree completely on that. I would never ever admit to an LEO I broke a law, even it was just doing 10 miles over the speed limit. They have the burden to prove I broke the law. I am not obligated to help them do it.


I have gotten out of at least 2 tickets that I can remember by being open and honest. For example.....Last year I got a late start trying to get to my son's football game 250 miles away. I was speeding. 84 in 75. I was headed south down the interstate, and a state cop was headed north. As soon as he passed me I saw his lights come on. I immediately pulled over and waited for him. I had all my info ready as soon as he got to the car. He asked me if I knew why he pulled me over and I told him , "yes, because I was speeding". He asked why i was speeding and I told him. I was polite and answered all his questions honestly. He started to walk back to his cruiser to run my lisense, but stopped about halfway and came back to the car. He handed me my stuff back and, with a smile, told me to slow down a little and enjoy the game. Made it to the game in time because of my honesty.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

Kb83 said:


> They clocked you at it. They have the proof. Where is lying going to get you?
> 
> sent from my LG Escape.


They have no proof until a judge or jury says they have proof. Cops can lie and deceive you in an effort to get you to admit something or answer questions. Why is it OK for cops to lie to us but we shouldn't lie (refuse to answer questions) to them?


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Fury90flier said:


> Sometimes being professional and honest will get you out of a ticket


It will for sure go a lot further than being rude and lying! 

I got pulled over when I was 16 being very stupid. I was in my '93 thunderbird super coupe doing about 120 in a 55. I could have gotten in a lot of trouble for that. I was respectful and honest with the officer (he could also tell he had me scared s***less) and walked away with a ticket for 5 over. Had I been a cocky jerk I have no doubt I would have ended up in the back of his car with my license suspended. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

A person can be a complete ass and "chatty" at the same time. 

A person can also be polite and show respect while only answering necessary questions and not offering additional information. 

Not sure where folks get the idea that remaining mostly silent is somehow suspicious or rude......


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

Kb83 said:


> It will for sure go a lot further than being rude and lying!
> 
> I got pulled over when I was 16 being very stupid. I was in my '93 thunderbird super coupe doing about 120 in a 55. I could have gotten in a lot of trouble for that. I was respectful and honest with the officer (he could also tell he had me scared s***less) and walked away with a ticket for 5 over. Had I been a cocky jerk I have no doubt I would have ended up in the back of his car with my license suspended.
> 
> sent from my LG Escape.


I think you are confusing silence with rudeness. Choosing to not answer questions is not being rude.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

swilk said:


> A person can be a complete ass and "chatty" at the same time.
> 
> A person can also be polite and show respect while only answering necessary questions and not offering additional information.
> 
> Not sure where folks get the idea that remaining mostly silent is somehow suspicious or rude......


Exactly thank you. Yes Sir, No Sir, I choose not answer that question Sir. Very polite.


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

I dont think you guys realize that the majority of people cant be silent and chatty. Not to mention that to some no matter how nicely you put it, it comes off rude.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

BlenderBottle said:


> I dont think you guys realize that the majority of people cant be silent and chatty. Not to mention that to some no matter how nicely you put it, it comes off rude.


End of the day, rudenes is in the eye of the beholder and is not illegal. I can't help it if an LEO chooses to think I am being rude.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

Typically, certain questions are only going to be asked to certain type of people...i.e. people who seem to be hiding stuff.

Example - Back in the day, if I pulled over a 60 year old lady at 9am for doing 15 MPH over the speed limit, I probably wouldn't ask a question like "where are you coming from, and where are you heading to?".

But...when I pull over the 19 year old, whose car has a failed inspection sticker, he's doing 15 MPH over the speed limit, it's midnight, and he has marijuana stickers on his car, I'm going to ask those questions. Because inevitably, he's going to screw it up, and tell me he's heading somewhere that is in the opposite direction or something similar. One of the easiest ways to catch someone lying, and if you lie about those things, you're hiding something.


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

Toonces said:


> End of the day, rudenes is in the eye of the beholder and is not illegal. I can't help it if an LEO chooses to think I am being rude.


Still not getting it toonces. It doesn't matter that it is not illegal, if he thinks you're being rude or suspicious even though you're not, he is going to stick around. So to get him away as fast as possible, it's best to be nice and truthful. If your method of no comment what not works, then I say stick with it, but to the majority of people, they will not be able to pull it off and it will come off as rude.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

As soon as you admit breaking the law, the cop writes it down on the ticket. What is the problem with "No sir, I don't know why you pulled me over". After all, if he hasn't told me, I don't know.


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

Hoyt04 said:


> It's only BS if you have something to hide. Come out when ever you want. I only hope they are around more to deal with poachers.


Fine, let the cops come into your house whenever they feel like it. After all, you have nothing to hide.

I'm all for stopping poachers and have had only pleasant experiences with game g&f officers. I stand by my statement that the government being able to come onto your private property without a warrant is BS.


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## Wagz (Sep 11, 2009)

Mathias said:


> The LPR information* IS* stored in a separate data base and is retrievable.


Trust me, even if every plate scanned was time stamped and GPS coordinates recorded with it there are much easier ways to find probable cause against paranoid D-bags.........


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

hunt1up said:


> Fine, let the cops come into your house whenever they feel like it. After all, you have nothing to hide.
> 
> I'm all for stopping poachers and have had only pleasant experiences with game g&f officers. I stand by my statement that the government being able to come onto your private property without a warrant is BS.


Do nothing wrong, and I can guarantee they won't make a habit out of it. Trust me, L.E. doesn't get their kicks by picking on innocent people. It's funny though, EVERY guilty person says their innocent. Imagine that.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

bsites9 said:


> Typically, certain questions are only going to be asked to certain type of people...i.e. people who seem to be hiding stuff.
> 
> Example - Back in the day, if I pulled over a 60 year old lady at 9am for doing 15 MPH over the speed limit, I probably wouldn't ask a question like "where are you coming from, and where are you heading to?".
> 
> But...when I pull over the 19 year old, whose car has a failed inspection sticker, he's doing 15 MPH over the speed limit, it's midnight, and he has marijuana stickers on his car, I'm going to ask those questions. Because inevitably, he's going to screw it up, and tell me he's heading somewhere that is in the opposite direction or something similar. One of the easiest ways to catch someone lying, and if you lie about those things, you're hiding something.


Exactly, thank you. Many times this what LEO are doing when they try to get you talking or when you volunteer information. They don't want to hear your excuses or have you ask for forgiveness. They are fishing for information. My father was a cop, this is what they do. Nothing wrong with it, just recognize it and don't play the game. You don't have to and they can't make you.

If you get pulled over for speeding or a broken headlight, why does a cop need to know where you are going or where you have been? It has nothing to do with your broken headlight. If you choose not to answer his question, your being rude? That is silly.


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

TheWood!! said:


> Do folks call you a douche bag for doing your job? What do you do for a living? How are they supposed to make sure everybody is following the law if they can't go out and check people. Give me a break. I have found that people who don't like cops/wardens or whatever are usually folks who tend to bend the rules. This more than likely defines yourself.
> 
> And I know here in NM they don't have to have any suspision or a complaint to come onto private land and check you. The fact that you are out there with a weapon is reason enough. How do they know you are within the law if they don't go and check you. A lot of poachers would get away if laws were written like some of you would like them to be.


Well I say if cops cant stop you every time they see you driving, just to see if maybe you dont have a license or insurance , then a CO shouldnt be able to to tresspass on MY property to see if I have a license ! And if you think they should have the right to tresspass on private ground to see if you've killed more than your bag limit then I guess you would be ok with them to do it EVERY time they saw you hunting ? I mean, you never know, maybe the day before when he checked you, you didnt have an opportunity to poach game....today maybe you did ....so just come F'up my hunt every time you see me Mr. CO. Maybe the cops should pull you over every day on your way to work and take their sweet time checking your license and info so your late for work a few times a week even though you aren't doing anything wrong....bet your attitude would change !!!


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Toonces said:


> Exactly, thank you. Many times this what LEO are doing when they try to get you talking or when you volunteer information. They don't want to hear your excuses or have you ask for forgiveness. They are fishing for information. My father was a cop, this is what they do. Nothing wrong with it, just recognize it and don't play the game. You don't have to and they can't make you.
> 
> If you get pulled over for speeding or a broken headlight, why does a cop need to know where you are going or where you have been? It has nothing to do with your broken headlight. If you choose not to answer his question, your being rude? That is silly.


Never said that was rude and I do agree. I was talking about having a attitude with them. And I was not specifically talking to you. If I get pulled over and the cop asks me why he pulled me over all I will say is I was going a little too fast. I won't give him the exact speed or try to make excuses. But I'm also not going to look at him like a dummy and say "I don't know". I agree he does not need to know where I am going or why. I am a grown adult and fully allowed to go where I please. I'm not saying you cant be polite and reserve information. All I was saying is do not get a big attitude and lie to them. All that's going to do is make them suspicious. Also being polite will make them a little less likely to ask you those questions. They walk up prepared for anything and everything. They don't know who they will encounter and if that person will shoot them or what will happen. I have nothing to hide.

sent from my LG Escape.


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## stonefly71 (Oct 7, 2011)

I know my ODNR officer and know he would either sit by my vehicle or he would be sitting at my house waiting for me to come home.Or he would try my cell phone as he has my number.A property I use to hunt had some people killing all the big bucks off it.The property owner gave ODNR permission to come on land to check anyone found on property.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

When a man asks me why they have done something my honest answer is "I do not know". 

I might have some mighty strong suspicions but I cannot be sure. 

So if a leo asks if I know why he pulled me over my answer will always be honest and will always be "no".


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

klean1 said:


> No public official can enter private property without a warrant or consent. Probable cause is not a "tip" from the neighbor. Its a blood trail or gunshot out of season.


Wrong............


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## klean1 (Jan 14, 2012)

staggyd said:


> Wrong............


Illegal search and seizure is still in the constitution. Pay attention America!!


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

swilk said:


> When a man asks me why they have done something my honest answer is "I do not know".
> 
> I might have some mighty strong suspicions but I cannot be sure.
> 
> So if a leo asks if I know why he pulled me over my answer will always be honest and will always be "no".



Wise man.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Toonces said:


> Exactly, thank you. Many times this what LEO are doing when they try to get you talking or when you volunteer information. They don't want to hear your excuses or have you ask for forgiveness. They are fishing for information. My father was a cop, this is what they do. Nothing wrong with it, just recognize it and don't play the game. You don't have to and they can't make you.
> 
> If you get pulled over for speeding or a broken headlight, why does a cop need to know where you are going or where you have been? It has nothing to do with your broken headlight. If you choose not to answer his question, your being rude? That is silly.


I am going forward, officer.


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

klean1 said:


> Illegal search and seizure is still in the constitution. Pay attention America!!


Believe me I agree with you...just saying he is wrong...wish he wasnt....


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## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

Toonces said:


> They have no proof until a judge or jury says they have proof. Cops can lie and deceive you in an effort to get you to admit something or answer questions. Why is it OK for cops to lie to us but we shouldn't lie (refuse to answer questions) to them?


certain question you are required by law to answer, specifically name address and birth date ,, your not required to answer any other by law,,, however not answering them may get you arrested for something you may not have been to start with,,,,,, 
I am a 30 year leo,,, several times I stopped people because they were suspicious or had been called in as suspicious or even fit the description of suspects in crimes,,, they don't give name and dob they make a ride for failure to identify or other charges such as crossing a street at other than a crosswalk, littering for throwing a cigarette but down,,, if they had identified themselves it would have been better because sometimes the so called "offense that they got called about was not an offense but if they will not cooperate, an leo will look for criminal charges to make an arrest on, then determine if there was an offense that justified the call,,, sometimes its just grudge cramp and simple answers would have revealed that,,, but he can not just let a suspect go, so even then he may make a legal detention and investigate the call farther 
never play games with an leo he may be very good at his job the single biggest factor I have ever seen in minor arrests was their mouth, trying to tell an leo what he is or is not going to do... be nice be polite be honest you will be better off for it,,, he has a job to do and yoru permission is not needed for him to do it,,,,, I let a whole lot of people go with only verbal warning for minor stuff like above,, but when they want to push the issue,,don't expect the leo not to push back,,, and never never spout the law off,,, not many chances you will find yourself right,,,, I also arrested a lot of lawyers who thought they new the law,,, only for them to find out they didn't have a clue...


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

xman59 said:


> certain question you are required by law to answer, specifically name address and birth date ,, your not required to answer any other by law,,, however not answering them may get you arrested for something you may not have been to start with,,,,,,
> I am a 30 year leo,,, several times I stopped people because they were suspicious or had been called in as suspicious or even fit the description of suspects in crimes,,, they don't give name and dob they make a ride for failure to identify or other charges such as crossing a street at other than a crosswalk, littering for throwing a cigarette but down,,, if they had identified themselves it would have been better because sometimes the so called "offense that they got called about was not an offense but if they will not cooperate, an leo will look for criminal charges to make an arrest on, then determine if there was an offense that justified the call,,, sometimes its just grudge cramp and simple answers would have revealed that,,, but he can not just let a suspect go, so even then he may make a legal detention and investigate the call farther
> never play games with an leo he may be very good at his job the single biggest factor I have ever seen in minor arrests was their mouth, trying to tell an leo what he is or is not going to do... be nice be polite be honest you will be better off for it,,, he has a job to do and yoru permission is not needed for him to do it,,,,, I let a whole lot of people go with only verbal warning for minor stuff like above,, but when they want to push the issue,,don't expect the leo not to push back,,, and never never spout the law off,,, not many chances you will find yourself right,,,, I also arrested a lot of lawyers who thought they new the law,,, only for them to find out they didn't have a clue...


You LEOs are not god and if I am not wrong or breaking and a law and you bug or bother me for nothing its on .I pay your wages and I am not going to bow to the sawed off king with his tin star.So I I have told tem hit the bricks before or write me a ticket and or arrest me .And I never have had one yet arrest me in over 5 decades .I simply am not playing 32 questions and doing stupid monkey tricks for em .I am not buying your BS either about the lawyers thing either .LOL that's their job to know the law .As a matter of a fact in most cases they know the law far better than any LEO and shove it up their rump in court everyday .


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## davydtune (Apr 27, 2007)

You put things so eloquently Nuke :lol:


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Shouldernuke! said:


> You LEOs are not god and if I am not wrong or breaking and a law and you bug or bother me for nothing its on .I pay your wages and I am not going to bow to the sawed off king with his tin star.So I I have told tem hit the bricks before or write me a ticket and or arrest me .And I never have had one yet arrest me in over 5 decades .I simply am not playing 32 questions and doing stupid monkey tricks for em .I am not buying your BS either about the lawyers thing either .LOL that's their job to know the law .As a matter of a fact in most cases they know the law far better than any LEO and shove it up their rump in court everyday .


I think its 20 questions?? Lol

sent from my LG Escape.


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## chrisj0616 (May 31, 2013)

Yes its legal and most likely someone called to tell em you were there doing something wrong even if you weren't they have to do their job 

Sent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

bsites9 said:


> Typically, certain questions are only going to be asked to certain type of people...i.e. people who seem to be hiding stuff.
> 
> Example - Back in the day, if I pulled over a 60 year old lady at 9am for doing 15 MPH over the speed limit, I probably wouldn't ask a question like "where are you coming from, and where are you heading to?".
> 
> But...when I pull over the 19 year old, whose car has a failed inspection sticker, he's doing 15 MPH over the speed limit, it's midnight, and he has marijuana stickers on his car, I'm going to ask those questions. Because inevitably, he's going to screw it up, and tell me he's heading somewhere that is in the opposite direction or something similar. One of the easiest ways to catch someone lying, and if you lie about those things, you're hiding something.


With all due respect...its none of your business where Im going or coming from...if you are going to write me a speeding ticket or something, get on with it, if not, Im not going to answer a bunch of questions so you can do some fishing.


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## AllOut (Jan 23, 2009)

staggyd said:


> with all due respect...its none of your business where im going or coming from...if you are going to write me a speeding ticket or something, get on with it, if not, im not going to answer a bunch of questions so you can do some fishing.


exactly!!!


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## Rg176bnc (Dec 13, 2004)

I bet they were young guys, poachers are caught at the vehicle.


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## pinwheeled (Apr 27, 2008)

shouldernuke! said:


> you leos are not god and if i am not wrong or breaking and a law and you bug or bother me for nothing its on .i pay your wages and i am not going to bow to the sawed off king with his tin star.so i i have told tem hit the bricks before or write me a ticket and or arrest me .and i never have ad one yet arrest me in over 5 decades .i simply am not playing 32 questions and doing stupid monkey tricks for em .i am not buying your bs either about the lawyers thing either .lol that's their job to know the law .as a matter of a fact in most cases they know the law far better than any leo and shove it up their rump in court everyday .


lmfao


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## richl35 (May 15, 2013)

My friend's son told me to watch this a year ago. He is a police officer in western MA.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE. They are not going to treat you fairly and if they are talking to you then they are interrogating you. Remember that allways.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

Toonces said:


> Exactly, thank you. Many times this what LEO are doing when they try to get you talking or when you volunteer information. They don't want to hear your excuses or have you ask for forgiveness. They are fishing for information. My father was a cop, this is what they do. Nothing wrong with it, just recognize it and don't play the game. You don't have to and they can't make you.
> 
> If you get pulled over for speeding or a broken headlight, why does a cop need to know where you are going or where you have been? It has nothing to do with your broken headlight. If you choose not to answer his question, your being rude? That is silly.





Shouldernuke! said:


> You LEOs are not god and if I am not wrong or breaking and a law and you bug or bother me for nothing its on .I pay your wages and I am not going to bow to the sawed off king with his tin star.So I I have told tem hit the bricks before or write me a ticket and or arrest me .And I never have had one yet arrest me in over 5 decades .I simply am not playing 32 questions and doing stupid monkey tricks for em .I am not buying your BS either about the lawyers thing either .LOL that's their job to know the law .As a matter of a fact in most cases they know the law far better than any LEO and shove it up their rump in court everyday .





staggyd said:


> With all due respect...its none of your business where Im going or coming from...if you are going to write me a speeding ticket or something, get on with it, if not, Im not going to answer a bunch of questions so you can do some fishing.


You guys are the same people complaining that LEO aren't doing their job. They ask some questions to fish, yes, but if you're not doing anything illegal and their questions are normal, you should answer them. They're always on the lookout for criminals including kidnappers, if you start stuttering about where you were going and all, they might just think you have a dead body in the back. If they weren't so inquisitive, they may just not be able to prevent, intervene or stop crime. They dont have a RIGHT to know where you're going, but knowing helps their job just a bit. Im pretty sure if a member of your family was hurt or kidnapped, you'd want them on your side, yet when they pull you over for a speeding ticket you're the same ones being uncooperative. Then you just complain about how inefficient and stupid they are when they can't get your tv back.


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

BlenderBottle said:


> You guys are the same people complaining that LEO aren't doing their job. They ask some questions to fish, yes, but if you're not doing anything illegal and their questions are normal, you should answer them. They're always on the lookout for criminals including kidnappers, if you start stuttering about where you were going and all, they might just think you have a dead body in the back. If they weren't so inquisitive, they may just not be able to prevent, intervene or stop crime. They dont have a RIGHT to know where you're going, but knowing helps their job just a bit. Im pretty sure if a member of your family was hurt or kidnapped, you'd want them on your side, yet when they pull you over for a speeding ticket you're the same ones being uncooperative. Then you just complain about how inefficient and stupid they are when they can't get your tv back.


Thats where you are wrong...Im not the guy complaining that LEOS arent doing their job....go catch someone doing something that makes a difference...and stop bothering me and my neighbors. Personally, in reference to CO's, I think that they for the most part dont catch real hardened criminals ...and most think they are cops....so to catch a guy without a fishing license or not enough inches of orange... to them is a federal case. I dont think is too much to ask to be left alone on MY own property.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

xman59 said:


> certain question you are required by law to answer, specifically name address and birth date ,, your not required to answer any other by law,,, however not answering them may get you arrested for something you may not have been to start with,,,,,,


So if you choose to exercise your constitutional rights to remain silent, you get thrown in a jail on trumped up charge in retaliation. Very nice.


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## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

Toonces said:


> Exactly thank you. Yes Sir, No Sir, I choose not answer that question Sir. Very polite.


Why in the world would I call a cop "sir?" My taxes pay him, he should be polite and courteous and professional. Some cops are great, some are garbage men with power trips.


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## Mudlick1 (Aug 23, 2010)

I never really had a problem with being checked until I actually got checked while duck hunting last winter. Three game wardens stopped me and my 7 year old son while driving back to the boat ramp. They checked every square inch of my boat, my gun, my live well, my decoy bag, my bullets with a magnet fire extinguisher date etc. final straw came when they patted me down in front of my son like I was some kind of criminal. People, I never had been sent to the principal office a a kid much less had any run ins with a officer. I was truly embarrassed that happen in front of my son. No one should have that much power... Without just cause... ever. I was even hunting... What was my crime??? Driving a boat with camo on? Let a police officer stop a foreigner because of their clothing or skin color, search them to the extent that I was searched and there would be 10 kinds of hell. This experience has changed my whole outlook on game wardens forever.


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## TailChaser (Aug 13, 2005)

They should be able to with probable cause. Their own decency should stop them from doing it with no reason (and usually does). Few bad apples in every bunch


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Fury90flier said:


> Sometimes being professional and honest will get you out of a ticket


I have written very few citations in my career. Most people were honest and told me the truth and I let them go on their way with a verbal warning to slow down or pay better attention to the stop sign, as long as their license and warrant check came back clean. Honesty always works wonders with me.


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## Borden811 (Jan 13, 2007)

tyepsu said:


> Unfortunately it is legal in most states even without probable cause. I have a few pieces of land that I have received permission to hunt and the landowners have told the game wardens to stay the hell away. Legally, they can still come back; however I think some of the wardens have stayed away just to keep the peace. Some things sound good on paper, but when it comes to real world application do not turn out as well as intended. I know it varies from state to state also. I have heard the Wardens in Ohio are friendly and helpful. Here in PA most WCO think because they have a badge they are some type of [email protected] and most assume every hunter they come into contact with is guilty. I have no issue with them going after poachers, tresspassers (they can't in PA... only local or state law enforcement can do this unless another game law violation is being committed) if they have evidence a violation is taking place. I do have issue when they simply see what appears to be a hunters vehicle parked somewhere and they start walking all over private land looking for who they assume must be in violation of game laws. They actually have more power (Example: don't need a warrant) than state and local law enforcement. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."


No, they don't. They fall under the same restrictions and requirements as any other LEO in PA. I don't know where you people come up with some of this stuff...


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## posco (Feb 27, 2007)

Mudlick1 said:


> I never really had a problem with being checked until I actually got checked while duck hunting last winter. Three game wardens stopped me and my 7 year old son while driving back to the boat ramp. They checked every square inch of my boat, my gun, my live well, my decoy bag, my bullets with a magnet fire extinguisher date etc. final straw came when they patted me down in front of my son like I was some kind of criminal. People, I never had been sent to the principal office a a kid much less had any run ins with a officer. I was truly embarrassed that happen in front of my son. No one should have that much power... Without just cause... ever. I was even hunting... What was my crime??? Driving a boat with camo on? Let a police officer stop a foreigner because of their clothing or skin color, search them to the extent that I was searched and there would be 10 kinds of hell. This experience has changed my whole outlook on game wardens forever.


Makes me angry just reading it.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

posco said:


> Makes me angry just reading it.


Me to. Would be difficult to keep your cool under those circumstances. I would have at least filed a complaint.


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## nomansland (Sep 12, 2008)

Mudlick1 said:


> I never really had a problem with being checked until I actually got checked while duck hunting last winter. Three game wardens stopped me and my 7 year old son while driving back to the boat ramp. They checked every square inch of my boat, my gun, my live well, my decoy bag, my bullets with a magnet fire extinguisher date etc. final straw came when they patted me down in front of my son like I was some kind of criminal. People, I never had been sent to the principal office a a kid much less had any run ins with a officer. I was truly embarrassed that happen in front of my son. No one should have that much power... Without just cause... ever. I was even hunting... What was my crime??? Driving a boat with camo on? Let a police officer stop a foreigner because of their clothing or skin color, search them to the extent that I was searched and there would be 10 kinds of hell. This experience has changed my whole outlook on game wardens forever.


I usually can't stand when guys whine about a simple check. But you sir have a reason too. That is just absurd. Hope your son took it well. Some guys just can't handle the slightest bit of power.


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## Grouper trooper (Jul 14, 2012)

Lol I love people with this mindset. That poor LEO pays his own salary too, ya know.

If only there was some way to easily identify the good guys from the bad guys these miserable LEO's wouldn't have to bother all you honest citizens...

And Sir, I can assure very few lawyers have a good handle on conservation LE. Not worth their time to specialize in it me thinks.

At the end of the day its a permitted activity and the rules are the rules. Play by them, or don't play. 




Shouldernuke! said:


> You LEOs are not god and if I am not wrong or breaking and a law and you bug or bother me for nothing its on .I pay your wages and I am not going to bow to the sawed off king with his tin star.So I I have told tem hit the bricks before or write me a ticket and or arrest me .And I never have had one yet arrest me in over 5 decades .I simply am not playing 32 questions and doing stupid monkey tricks for em .I am not buying your BS either about the lawyers thing either .LOL that's their job to know the law .As a matter of a fact in most cases they know the law far better than any LEO and shove it up their rump in court everyday .


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

staggyd said:


> Thats where you are wrong...Im not the guy complaining that LEOS arent doing their job....go catch someone doing something that makes a difference...and stop bothering me and my neighbors. Personally, in reference to CO's, I think that they for the most part dont catch real hardened criminals ...and most think they are cops....so to catch a guy without a fishing license or not enough inches of orange... to them is a federal case. I dont think is too much to ask to be left alone on MY own property.


But you would be, first time anything happens that requires their service and they don't do it to the standard you like, you would bring the above statement up. How are they to know that one of you isn't a poacher or a criminal? They don't, they sure shouldn't treat you like one, but I think you guys would have a better time with them being supportive and friendly. I know where you're coming from though, we all used to be teens and we all used to say F the Police, ive found that being mature with them produces alot better results.

But there are always bad apples in the bunch, and you could also have unfortunately gotten the pick of them.


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## spencer12 (Dec 21, 2009)

I checked on this thread 2 days ago and come back to 14 pages. What I miss?


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

LEO = bad
LEO = good

Basically about the gist of the conversation.


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## highoctane (Dec 8, 2008)

spencer12 said:


> I checked on this thread 2 days ago and come back to 14 pages. What I miss?


 Nothing but a big urinating contest now......


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

MiamiValleyYoop said:


> Game wardens can come on private and public land for any reason they want. In any state, it's part of the federal game laws.



Ditto, they have more authority than any other local or federal law enforcement agency.


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

I don't think it is a pissing match at all. It is a very real issue if you have ever had to deal with it. Good, bad, indifferent whatever the individual's natural inclination...the position of LEO/ECO seems to lend itself well to abuse or at the least the exploitation of bad judgement. 

I don't think anyone is arguing they are all good or all bad here. However there seem to be more bad stories than good. That is generally what happens when you leave someone with the kind of unchecked authority these officers have.

It is not my job to provide good press for these guys. I do not care a bit to hear how hard their job is. Mine too! And everyone else's that wakes up and gets out there every day to provide for themselves and their family.

If the business of managing these game laws was private you can bet they would be on their best behavior. You might actually be under some well deserved scrutiny for the incident with the OP...as opposed to a pat on the back from the other guys who are also 25 and out on a tax paid pension. I have no sympathy for these guys. You eat what you kill where I come from. The last thing we need is more government. And if we are just picking sides good/bad here as stated in a recent post...how about you err on the side of your fellow hunters for a change...just a thought.





Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

Grouper trooper said:


> Lol I love people with this mindset. That poor LEO pays his own salary too, ya know.
> 
> If only there was some way to easily identify the good guys from the bad guys these miserable LEO's wouldn't have to bother all you honest citizens...
> 
> ...


The man was talking about general civic lawsd in his post .Second I never have you ever noticed that the creminals who were doing real wrong expect to get checked or arrested and handel it accordingly .But the people who gety upset know their constitutional rights and hate being bothered or harrased for doing wat they do every day and are only guilty of wanting to be left alone ?? Thats my point in this that people do not have to act all happy and giggles because they are checked out, questioned , pulled over .or patted down at the airport .It rubs good folks the wrong way including me .

Yep you guys are just doing your job but many Leos are simply on power trips and take it out on many times the wrong people who for all accounts are either at the wrong place wriong time or just living life.Its funny I have actually given two COs here good info on where and how to catch poachers and road hunters after a truck side license check and what happened ??Nothing .Call the shariffs office to complain about 4 wheel drive trucks mudding in crop feilds !! Nothing .Sorry the one time I get pulled over I get where you going where you been and 100 questions because I dropped my coffee on teh floor and swerved slightly over the yellow line .I m sorry my faith is shaken lets say.


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## pinwheeled (Apr 27, 2008)

Mudlick1 said:


> I never really had a problem with being checked until I actually got checked while duck hunting last winter. Three game wardens stopped me and my 7 year old son while driving back to the boat ramp. They checked every square inch of my boat, my gun, my live well, my decoy bag, my bullets with a magnet fire extinguisher date etc. final straw came when they patted me down in front of my son like I was some kind of criminal. People, I never had been sent to the principal office a a kid much less had any run ins with a officer. I was truly embarrassed that happen in front of my son. No one should have that much power... Without just cause... ever. I was even hunting... What was my crime??? Driving a boat with camo on? Let a police officer stop a foreigner because of their clothing or skin color, search them to the extent that I was searched and there would be 10 kinds of hell. This experience has changed my whole outlook on game wardens forever.


two sides to every story


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

Shouldernuke! said:


> The man was talking about general civic lawsd in his post .Second I never have you ever noticed that the creminals who were doing real wrong expect to get checked or arrested and handel it accordingly .But the people who gety upset know their constitutional rights and hate being bothered or harrased for doing wat they do every day and are only guilty of wanting to be left alone ?? Thats my point in this that people do not have to act all happy and giggles because they are checked out, questioned , pulled over .or patted down at the airport .It rubs good folks the wrong way including me .
> 
> Yep you guys are just doing your job but many Leos are simply on power trips and take it out on many times the wrong people who for all accounts are either at the wrong place wriong time or just living life.Its funny I have actually given two COs here good info on where and how to catch poachers and road hunters after a truck side license check and what happened ??Nothing .Call the shariffs office to complain about 4 wheel drive trucks mudding in crop feilds !! Nothing .Sorry the one time I get pulled over I get where you going where you been and 100 questions because I dropped my coffee on teh floor and swerved slightly over the yellow line .I m sorry my faith is shaken lets say.


The intellect of the argument you may have proposed was simply inundated with spelling errors and thus erased all sense of credibility to your argument.


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

buckeyboy said:


> Too much AT fries your Brain..... this thread is proof!!!


It's true, but you know what the only cure is?

...More AT :nod:

This thread has me convinced that we have enough on these "game wardens" to put them all away for a very long time. :tinfoil3:


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

staggyd said:


> With all due respect...its none of your business where Im going or coming from...if you are going to write me a speeding ticket or something, get on with it, if not, Im not going to answer a bunch of questions so you can do some fishing.


That's where you're wrong, and always will be wrong. You're breaking the law, at bare minimum by breaking traffic laws. And if you're getting asked those other questions, chances are you're breaking much bigger laws. 

I can tell you this with 100% accuracy. I was never ONCE wrong when I had a hunch that someone was either under the influence, or had drugs in the car. I'm sure I got fooled some by the guy who did have it and I didn't know, but I never once thought someone had something illegal and turned out wrong. 

This all started by one guy being pissed that he got checked by L.E. while he was hunting. And for the record, the OP never stated he was even on private property in his opening statement. But all the people who are bound and determined to show that they won't "be ruled" by L.E. just jumped to that conclusion to have something to ***** about.


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

I can't imagine being checked while on stand in my back yard but there's rarely any deer around anyway so it doesn't matter much.

I doubt they'd ever find me when I'm in the national forest. LOL My truck will be parked in camp and they're welcome to stop in and visit whenever they want. They don't seem to have time to do anything about the people throwing garbage all over the place or committing other assorted acts of vandalism like cutting down trees.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

bsites9 said:


> That's where you're wrong, and always will be wrong. You're breaking the law, at bare minimum by breaking traffic laws. And if you're getting asked those other questions, chances are you're breaking much bigger laws.
> 
> I can tell you this with 100% accuracy. I was never ONCE wrong when I had a hunch that someone was either under the influence, or had drugs in the car. I'm sure I got fooled some by the guy who did have it and I didn't know, but I never once thought someone had something illegal and turned out wrong.
> 
> This all started by one guy being pissed that he got checked by L.E. while he was hunting. And for the record, the OP never stated he was even on private property in his opening statement. But all the people who are bound and determined to show that they won't "be ruled" by L.E. just jumped to that conclusion to have something to ***** about.


A LEO is free to ask any question they like and an informed citizen is free to answer only those required and a polite "I choose to not answer that sir" to all the rest. It is his/her choice.

The LEO can get all huffy and do something silly if they want .... that is why they have conduct review boards and a citizen complaint process that a person can take if they feel the LEO overstepped his authority.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

swilk said:


> A LEO is free to ask any question they like and an informed citizen is free to answer only those required and a polite "I choose to not answer that sir" to all the rest. It is his/her choice.
> 
> The LEO can get all huffy and do something silly if they want .... that is why they have conduct review boards and a citizen complaint process that a person can take if they feel the LEO overstepped his authority.



^this^


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

Common 20 pages.. I like tacos..


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

buckeyboy said:


> Common 20 pages.. I like tacos..


tacobell is not real tacos. Head to tijuana for that.


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

swilk said:


> A LEO is free to ask any question they like and an informed citizen is free to answer only those required and a polite "I choose to not answer that sir" to all the rest. It is his/her choice.


It is really suprising to me why this is at all controversial to anyone.


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

I dont think that is controversial. From what I see, we are debating the best way to get a warden to leave you alone to hunt. In my opinion, be honest and friendly. Other people have had luck being friendly but silent. But it seems like many people who try the latter approach come off as hostile and unfriendly which = suspicious and Warden hanging around you more.


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## addison_smith15 (Apr 18, 2013)

tyepsu said:


> Unfortunately it is legal in most states even without probable cause. I have a few pieces of land that I have received permission to hunt and the landowners have told the game wardens to stay the hell away. Legally, they can still come back; however I think some of the wardens have stayed away just to keep the peace. Some things sound good on paper, but when it comes to real world application do not turn out as well as intended. I know it varies from state to state also. I have heard the Wardens in Ohio are friendly and helpful. Here in PA most WCO think because they have a badge they are some type of [email protected] and most assume every hunter they come into contact with is guilty. I have no issue with them going after poachers, tresspassers (they can't in PA... only local or state law enforcement can do this unless another game law violation is being committed) if they have evidence a violation is taking place. I do have issue when they simply see what appears to be a hunters vehicle parked somewhere and they start walking all over private land looking for who they assume must be in violation of game laws. They actually have more power (Example: don't need a warrant) than state and local law enforcement. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."


I agree with that. I live In ohio and the wardens are pretty nice here. Me and my dad where short range shooting at a range like 2 hours from where we live, it was one of those no permit ranges, but the thing is we had no idea what short range shooting was! So some guy "tattled" on us even though we were using shotguns. The game warden came and checked everything and he almost gave us tickets which would have been EXPENSIVE but he decided to be nice and forget about it.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

BlenderBottle said:


> I dont think that is controversial. From what I see, we are debating the best way to get a warden to leave you alone to hunt. In my opinion, be honest and friendly. Other people have had luck being friendly but silent. But it seems like many people who try the latter approach come off as hostile and unfriendly which = suspicious and Warden hanging around you more.


Some guys have a knack for coming off like an ass no matter how hard they try .... other guys have charisma oozing out of them and can tell you to f off and make you smile when they tell ya.

My way works for me .....

IMO, the best way to get a warden to leave you alone is to not break any game laws. If you are not breaking any laws and they come to check you out the process should be pretty quick and painless ..... if the warden decides to make it something other than that and a person feels they have stepped outside their authority there are steps a hunter can take.


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## Kruck5 (Jan 8, 2008)

I am not going to read one page of this thread, I dont have to. 
1) If they have a gun
2) If they have a badge
3) If they recieve a government pay check
They can do what ever they wish!! We live in a socialist country and most citizens have lost most of their rights!


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## BlenderBottle (Jul 31, 2013)

swilk said:


> Some guys have a knack for coming off like an ass no matter how hard they try .... other guys have charisma oozing out of them and can tell you to f off and make you smile when they tell ya.
> 
> My way works for me .....
> 
> IMO, the best way to get a warden to leave you alone is to not break any game laws. If you are not breaking any laws and they come to check you out the process should be pretty quick and painless ..... if the warden decides to make it something other than that and a person feels they have stepped outside their authority there are steps a hunter can take.


Ive met so many smooth talkers in my life, I am envious. Ive found the smooth talkers are usually the ones who are more adept to lying and stretching the truth though, I dont trust many of them.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

BlenderBottle said:


> Ive met so many smooth talkers in my life, I am envious. Ive found the smooth talkers are usually the ones who are more adept to lying and stretching the truth though, I dont trust many of them.


I deal with salesmen every day .... a profession filled with smooth talkers and BS artists. Most are as full of s*!t as a Christmas goose.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

swilk said:


> A LEO is free to ask any question they like and an informed citizen is free to answer only those required and a polite "I choose to not answer that sir" to all the rest. It is his/her choice.
> 
> The LEO can get all huffy and do something silly if they want .... that is why they have conduct review boards and a citizen complaint process that a person can take if they feel the LEO overstepped his authority.


That's correct. My point was, if you're not being a douche from the beginning, and have nothing to hide, then most likely you won't be asked those questions in the first place.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

bsites9 said:


> if you're not being a douche from the beginning...


Herein lies the problem. Attitudes, all the way round.


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## davydtune (Apr 27, 2007)

swilk said:


> I deal with salesmen every day .... a profession filled with smooth talkers and BS artists. Most are as full of s*!t as a Christmas goose.


Boy you are not kidding, lol! I deal with salesman on a daily basis. However there are a few good ones out there.


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

BlenderBottle said:


> The intellect of the argument you may have proposed was simply inundated with spelling errors and thus erased all sense of credibility to your argument.


Keep up the spelling police crap and find yourself banned again as its against the rules here. I know I had spelling issues in this one . I had about 30 seconds to post and get offline .Sorry your kingship it did not meet your idiotic personal standards!


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

I see nuke ate his wheaties today. He's frisky today. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

Shouldernuke! said:


> Keep up the spelling police crap and find yourself banned again as its against the rules here. I know I had spelling issues in this one . I had about 30 seconds to post and get offline .Sorry your kingship it did not meet your idiotic personal standards!


I personally think Nuke is a pot stirrer. Funny how he reports BlenderBottle for calling him out on the spelling and grammar and gets him banned but calls him idiotic because of his personal standards....Pot meet Kettle


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

bsites9 said:


> That's correct. My point was, if you're not being a douche from the beginning, and have nothing to hide, then most likely you won't be asked those questions in the first place.


How would you expect a person that you stopped or checked out to act if they had done nothing to warrant it ??All happy a giggles or to have an bit of an attitude?? I would expect an attitude if I was interrupting someones day or life and what they were doing was not illegal .Sorry your showing in your posts that you were a overbearing cop and had that Barney Fife mentality of" everyone you encountered was guilty of a crime or hiding something" typical bad cop stuff there IMHO .Those types do not make for a great cop and are quite unprofessional .You complicated it with your words in your last post as well..


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

snoman4 said:


> I personally think Nuke is a pot stirrer. Funny how he reports BlenderBottle for calling him out on the spelling and grammar and gets him banned but calls him idiotic because of his personal standards....Pot meet Kettle


I did not get him banned or report him he had already been banned in the past and has not been off it long thats why its under his Name Shurlock!! Great police work .I warrned him he could get banned is all .Great job! Now Frying pan welcome to the fire!Said the Kettle 
He is not banned ..But if got banned he did it too himself by his actions or words... Not mine LOL


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

Kb83 said:


> I see nuke ate his wheaties today. He's frisky today.
> 
> sent from my LG Escape.


Yep I am on fire and its time to bring out the big spoons !!! LOL


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## Kb83 (Dec 17, 2011)

Bring the thunder nuke.....bring the thunder. 

sent from my LG Escape.


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## Swamp Poodle (Aug 3, 2010)

Game wardens have way more latitiude than other LEO regarding probably cause.


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## a1hoyt.ca (Feb 3, 2008)

Never had them follow me in to a hunting area. Had them check my camp out before no big. Heck maybe U guys were hunting near there tree stand spots. I usually see a couple here & there but it see more when fishing than I ever do hunting. I have had them leave a note on my truck and or near my tent a couple times with a blank piece of paper. Asking for my hunter info & 
rivers Lic. #


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## Jesse Schultz (Sep 11, 2013)

pa.hunter said:


> 30+ years never seen GAME WARDEN YET ! they have more athority that state police in pa. well, they use too?


Same in Ma. they can go right in your house no warrant.


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## CDURFEY (May 16, 2009)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion



You rode the short bus didn't you.....


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## Mr.Bass1984 (Sep 4, 2013)

I hunt private property and have been checked maybe 5-6 times and that was all in the same year during rifle season 15 years ago. Me and my family started getting frustrated with it and were about file a complaint because they showed up early in the morning and just walked in an interupted us. It turns out that our crazy neighbors two pieces over were poaching anything and everything that moved and the dnr was working on an anonymous tip and they didn't know the exact piece of property. The people ended up getting caught and fined a lot of money along with lifetime hunting bans. They soon sold the property shortly there after.


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

swilk said:


> Some guys have a knack for coming off like an ass no matter how hard they try .... other guys have charisma oozing out of them and can tell you to f off and make you smile when they tell ya.
> 
> My way works for me .....
> 
> IMO, the best way to get a warden to leave you alone is to not break any game laws. If you are not breaking any laws and they come to check you out the process should be pretty quick and painless ..... if the warden decides to make it something other than that and a person feels they have stepped outside their authority there are steps a hunter can take.


Its not about how fast I can get a CO to leave me alone...its about him walking all through private property (or driving his pick up) to "see" if I MIGHT be doing something wrong....at friggin prime time on opening day...and NO he didnt have someone call...this clown went from property to property doing the same thing to everyone. Just my opinion...this is just a cassless move on his part.


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

bsites9 said:


> That's where you're wrong, and always will be wrong. You're breaking the law, at bare minimum by breaking traffic laws. And if you're getting asked those other questions, chances are you're breaking much bigger laws.
> 
> I can tell you this with 100% accuracy. I was never ONCE wrong when I had a hunch that someone was either under the influence, or had drugs in the car. I'm sure I got fooled some by the guy who did have it and I didn't know, but I never once thought someone had something illegal and turned out wrong.
> 
> This all started by one guy being pissed that he got checked by L.E. while he was hunting. And for the record, the OP never stated he was even on private property in his opening statement. But all the people who are bound and determined to show that they won't "be ruled" by L.E. just jumped to that conclusion to have something to ***** about.


Sounds like you were the best cop ever....and I am not wrong about my statement...even if I was breaking traffic laws...its still none of your business where I was or where Im going...sure you can ask all day..I dont have to tell you nothing about my activities...wanna hear the stupidest question every LEO asks ? "Do you know why I pulled you over?"....uhmmmm, you pulled me over how bout you just telling me what I did wrong and lets move on ! What do they expect a person to say..."sure I know why, I have 40 kilos of coke in the trunk !" ????? Some of you people need to learn little more about the constitution, the 5th amendment is all about protecting INNOCENT people !


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## REDVANES (Nov 27, 2009)

Mr. Man said:


> Lol, how old are you, 15? Yes, it's legal. Yes, it's their job. Quit crying.


alright chief, lets calm 'er down.... I'd be pissed if I were him too


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## eos (Jul 20, 2010)

The 4th amendment should apply everywhere in the USA. Some real BS going on when game wardens think they are above the CONSTITUTION!!! (re - private property)


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## Muzzy61 (Oct 22, 2007)

I haven't taken the time to read all 15 pages, but have we had a game warden weigh in yet?


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## Make It Happen (Oct 26, 2010)

Thats like a cop pulling you over just to check and make sure you have insurance, are sober, vehicle is registered, no drugs, etc.. I dont think they should walk onto private property like they own it unless a concerned neighbor called, sees a violation or checks you at the car. I have only been checked once here in NJ durring permit season and he was either driving past or waited at my car. I dont see an issue for checking but dont wander around on a saturday ruining the hunt on possibly someones only day off to get a hunt in. 

Its def nice to know they are around doing their job and creating a pressence to keep people on the up n up! Im not reading 15 pages just adding my thoughts... If I hunted state land and every saturday a game warden walked in checking I would be upset. But most hunt or fish and respect others recreation time.


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## Muliefever (Jun 2, 2009)

All I can say is.. Man I am glad I decided to become a Officer.. At the academy right now... I will keep my eye out for some of you


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## Muliefever (Jun 2, 2009)

Muzzy61 said:


> I haven't taken the time to read all 15 pages, but have we had a game warden weigh in yet?


yes.. I did.. Completely legal.. Not saying it is the approach I would take. But completely legal


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

Muliefever said:


> All I can say is.. Man I am glad I decided to become a Officer.. At the academy right now...* I will keep my eye out for some of you*


Does that you'll be turning a blind eye to some of us too?


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## Redz (May 27, 2012)

At least mine waited for me in the parking lot to return to my vehicle! We had a little chat after he checked my license, was pretty cool actually.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

Muliefever said:


> All I can say is.. Man I am glad I decided to become a Officer.. At the academy right now... I will keep my eye out for some of you


Sounds like your already letting it go to your head.


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## Grouper trooper (Jul 14, 2012)

I understand, and like I said I like people with your attitude. 
The fact is, its the law and no one is violating your rights. Was it a dick move as reported in the op? Sure, but sometimes it happens, as a sportman I make a conscious effort to not blow up somebodys fishing/ or hunting- but Id be lying if I said
its never happened accidentally. 
It's a shame that you've had less than positive experiences with LE. Most GW's Ive met ( through training and such) are good people that do what they do because they absolutely care about the resource. 



Shouldernuke! said:


> The man was talking about general civic lawsd in his post .Second I never have you ever noticed that the creminals who were doing real wrong expect to get checked or arrested and handel it accordingly .But the people who gety upset know their constitutional rights and hate being bothered or harrased for doing wat they do every day and are only guilty of wanting to be left alone ?? Thats my point in this that people do not have to act all happy and giggles because they are checked out, questioned , pulled over .or patted down at the airport .It rubs good folks the wrong way including me .
> 
> Yep you guys are just doing your job but many Leos are simply on power trips and take it out on many times the wrong people who for all accounts are either at the wrong place wriong time or just living life.Its funny I have actually given two COs here good info on where and how to catch poachers and road hunters after a truck side license check and what happened ??Nothing .Call the shariffs office to complain about 4 wheel drive trucks mudding in crop feilds !! Nothing .Sorry the one time I get pulled over I get where you going where you been and 100 questions because I dropped my coffee on teh floor and swerved slightly over the yellow line .I m sorry my faith is shaken lets say.


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## Muliefever (Jun 2, 2009)

its easy to be a critic.


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## readonly (Nov 20, 2008)

Great to know that we have idiots down there in Texas arresting folks because they fail to identify, even though they aren't obligated to do so until after they had been arrested for a different purpose. Did I say IDIOTS loud enough?

http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.co...aw-what-it-says-vs-what-police-think-it-says/




xman59 said:


> certain question you are required by law to answer, specifically name address and birth date ,, your not required to answer any other by law,,, however not answering them may get you arrested for something you may not have been to start with,,,,,,
> I am a 30 year leo,,, several times I stopped people because they were suspicious or had been called in as suspicious or even fit the description of suspects in crimes,,, they don't give name and dob they make a ride for failure to identify or other charges such as crossing a street at other than a crosswalk, littering for throwing a cigarette but down,,, if they had identified themselves it would have been better because sometimes the so called "offense that they got called about was not an offense but if they will not cooperate, an leo will look for criminal charges to make an arrest on, then determine if there was an offense that justified the call,,, sometimes its just grudge cramp and simple answers would have revealed that,,, but he can not just let a suspect go, so even then he may make a legal detention and investigate the call farther
> never play games with an leo he may be very good at his job the single biggest factor I have ever seen in minor arrests was their mouth, trying to tell an leo what he is or is not going to do... be nice be polite be honest you will be better off for it,,, he has a job to do and yoru permission is not needed for him to do it,,,,, I let a whole lot of people go with only verbal warning for minor stuff like above,, but when they want to push the issue,,don't expect the leo not to push back,,, and never never spout the law off,,, not many chances you will find yourself right,,,, I also arrested a lot of lawyers who thought they new the law,,, only for them to find out they didn't have a clue...


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## nomansland (Sep 12, 2008)

Muliefever said:


> yes.. I did.. Completely legal.. Not saying it is the approach I would take. But completely legal


Are you a warden or just in the academy still? Big difference...


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## G20 (Jan 31, 2008)

readonly said:


> Great to know that we have idiots down there in Texas arresting folks because they fail to identify, even though they aren't obligated to do so until after they had been arrested for a different purpose. Did I say IDIOTS loud enough?
> 
> http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.co...aw-what-it-says-vs-what-police-think-it-says/


Not entirely true. If an officer can articulate reasonable suspicion. Then they can require I'd.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Bad cop=no donut!


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## Muliefever (Jun 2, 2009)

nomansland said:


> Are you a warden or just in the academy still? Big difference...


Yes I am in the academy right now.. 12 years law enforcement experience. Changed to federal, hence why I am back at the academy.

4th amendment applies... No difference.


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## nomansland (Sep 12, 2008)

Muliefever said:


> Yes I am in the academy right now.. 12 years law enforcement experience. Changed to federal, hence why I am back at the academy.
> 
> 4th amendment applies... No difference.


Understood. My apologies.


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## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

Muliefever said:


> All I can say is.. Man I am glad I decided to become a Officer.. At the academy right now... I will keep my eye out for some of you


Wow, great attitude. To bad cops don't realize that they are employees paid by our taxes and act accordingly.


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## nomansland (Sep 12, 2008)

escout402 said:


> Wow, great attitude. To bad cops don't realize that they are employees paid by our taxes and act accordingly.


I'm sure they realize. They get that stupid comment said to them quite often I'm sure.


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## Hondov65 (Jan 16, 2013)

I have seen them work in pairs one in a plane 2 or 3 on the ground they also can chase and shoot. I have no reason to run. My hunting license is free now.


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## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

Not legal for police officers to pull you over just to check and see if you are legal and it should not be legal for a game warden to check a hunter while he is hunting.


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## browningbolt (Aug 10, 2011)

Back when I duck hunted we once had wardens check us no more than 10 minutes after sunrise.You can say that it is there job but that is a bit over the top.They checked everything found nothing and wasted our morning hunt.Total power trip.......


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## Muliefever (Jun 2, 2009)

escout402 said:


> Wow, great attitude. To bad cops don't realize that they are employees paid by our taxes and act accordingly.


sorry I should have made the smiley face at the end of my statement LARGER..... Pure sarcasm.. 

Truth.. I am an officer... Truth... I am a diehard bow hunter that also feels my rights as a citizen should not be infringed upon.. Truth... I will NOT infringe on ANY persons rights unless reasonable suspicion or probable cause exists....

But don't attempt to cyber bully me or anyone else for that matter. You have something you want to say, shoot me a message and we can handle it. I do this job because I love it.. I want to catch the bad guy, so he doesn't ruin it for the rest of us.. Simple... The lord laid it heavy on my heart to do it, I followed...

if you do have a serious question I am always happy to help in any way I can..

Stay classy


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## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

Muliefever said:


> sorry I should have made the smiley face at the end of my statement LARGER..... Pure sarcasm..
> 
> Truth.. I am an officer... Truth... I am a diehard bow hunter that also feels my rights as a citizen should not be infringed upon.. Truth... I will NOT infringe on ANY persons rights unless reasonable suspicion or probable cause exists....
> 
> ...


I didn't cyber bully anybody. I think most cops are fine, but the ones with the tough guy attitudes are a bit much. I have friends and acquaintances who are LEOs and I KNOW the typical self-entitled attitude. I have seen cops get hammered at bars and drive home, I have seen cops get pulled over speeding and pull out their badge to get out of the ticket. Apparently laws do not apply to all. I hope you are not one of these. Stay classy. :smile:


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## G20 (Jan 31, 2008)

escout402 said:


> I didn't cyber bully anybody. I think most cops are fine, but the ones with the tough guy attitudes are a bit much. I have friends and acquaintances who are LEOs and I KNOW the typical self-entitled attitude. I have seen cops get hammered at bars and drive home, I have seen cops get pulled over speeding and pull out their badge to get out of the ticket. Apparently laws do not apply to all. I hope you are not one of these. Stay classy. :smile:


It's human nature. Doesn't matter if you replaced everyone with brand new folks, you will still have those with attitudes or plain ol thugs. Nothing anyone can do about it if they are expecting perfection because it isn't possible. No different than any other profession. No different than gun owners who go on shooting rampages and some want to identify that with all gun owners. No different than when a bowhunter takes a bad shot and someone gets a pic of an animal suffering because of it. It isn't a reflection on all bowhunters.

Same as here at AT. Anyone who has spent time here or any other forum recognizes the posters that are constantly argumentive or the ones that aren't. Human nature.


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## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

Shouldernuke! said:


> You LEOs are not god and if I am not wrong or breaking and a law and you bug or bother me for nothing its on .I pay your wages and I am not going to bow to the sawed off king with his tin star.So I I have told tem hit the bricks before or write me a ticket and or arrest me .And I never have had one yet arrest me in over 5 decades .I simply am not playing 32 questions and doing stupid monkey tricks for em .I am not buying your BS either about the lawyers thing either .LOL that's their job to know the law .As a matter of a fact in most cases they know the law far better than any LEO and shove it up their rump in court everyday .


prime example of the type of guy who talks himself into jail,,,, and many lawyers are not as smart as you may think,, sorry you have so much pent up hate and anger toward leos,,, im pretty sure you never said anything of the sort above to an leo,,


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## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

Toonces said:


> So if you choose to exercise your constitutional rights to remain silent, you get thrown in a jail on trumped up charge in retaliation. Very nice.


I don't believe I said anything of the sort,,, trumped up implies lies ,, a legal arrest is a legal arrest,,, just about every single person I arrested for fail to identify, turned out to be wanted, a couple for murder, 1 for arson, several for burglary dui dwi assault and robberies,,,, and hundreds for lesser warrants from parking tickets to trespassing littering even parking tickets..... generally people who are trying to hide something, especially there name, are criminals.......... 
most of these people were stopped for traffic violations, some were actually engaged in suspicious activity in places they should not have been,,,, 
how many times have you been arrested on "trumped up charges"?


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## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

readonly said:


> Great to know that we have idiots down there in Texas arresting folks because they fail to identify, even though they aren't obligated to do so until after they had been arrested for a different purpose. Did I say IDIOTS loud enough?
> 
> http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.co...aw-what-it-says-vs-what-police-think-it-says/


nope.... but you still don't understand the law, my 30 years has seen a lot of law changes... your making assumptions because they fit your twisted view of law and leo's.... 
yep the fail to identify law was changed,,, near the end of my service..... in my time, all of it on the streets,, I had exactly 2 sustained complaints.... and several people who filed false complaints actually were arrested for them,,,,, glad to know we still have people who hide behind a key board to call other people names because they don't understand what there even talking about you know the kind who make accusations based on whims, with zero knowledge of what their talking about.... makes me wonder why I put my life on the line, and left some of my blood on the streets...... 
maybe I should have not stopped anyone, never arrested people for murder, burglary, arson ,assault, rape, you seem to prefer their kind,, grow up , man up and if you don't like it join up and work on making it better but apparently you prefer it to be easier for criminals to walk freely, because the cops cant stop or talk to anyone, ask questions, 
think about it next time you hear about a cop who didn't do anything, when someone pointed out a suspect and said he just raped a 80 year old woman, or molested some child,,, think about it when you call 911 because you see a crime being committed and the cops call back and say, sorry its there lunch time,,, or if they do approach a suspect and let him walk because he decided he didn't want to confess..... you can not have it both ways, 

yes there are bad cops, but there are a lot more really good ones,, its a shame some of my co workers blew their brains out because they could no longer handle the stress of dealing with people who are twisted and warped deranged and judgmental , people who they were working to protect who were racist bigots and haters people who were ignorant enough to claim they paid their salary,, well hears your nickle back, because that's about what you paid for them to work for people like you...
and you call me and cops idiots,,, quit standing in front of the mirror, you might see more..........


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

xman59 said:


> I don't believe I said anything of the sort,,, trumped up implies lies ,, a legal arrest is a legal arrest,,, just about every single person I arrested for fail to identify, turned out to be wanted, a couple for murder, 1 for arson, several for burglary dui dwi assault and robberies,,,, and hundreds for lesser warrants from parking tickets to trespassing littering even parking tickets..... generally people who are trying to hide something, especially there name, are criminals..........
> most of these people were stopped for traffic violations, some were actually engaged in suspicious activity in places they should not have been,,,,
> how many times have you been arrested on "trumped up charges"?


I have been. Well in one case I was arrested. In the other case, I was just robbed.

First the robbery. I was 17 or 18 and a couple of buddies and I were pulled over by a Chicago cop. He took every cent we had. He said that if we didn't give him the money he'd arrest us for something. He said the charge probably wouldn't stick but that we'd still spend the night in Cook County jail getting butt loved by some big (you know what). We probably should have told him to go jump but we were young and scared so we did what he said. He didn't eve leave us with enough money to make a phone call (no cell phones in those days).

The arrest... I mentioned earlier in the thread that I used to hunt a farm that was bordered by a county forest preserve. Local LE used to illegally hunt the forest preserve and wanted me out because I could see them from the farm.

One day I was shooting in the farmers garbage dump/pit. Everything was completely legal...private property, written permission in my pocket, outside city limits etc. The cop said/wrote something about the gun shots scaring people in the forest preserve and he charged me with reckless conduct. This was about 35 years ago so I don't remember the exact wording. It cost me a lot of money and it took over a year to get my guns back. Once the judge ordered them returned the police couldn't find them. It turned out they ended up in some guy's office at the forest preserve headquarters. Go figure.

I guess the police are about the only thing on this earth that I'm really afraid of. I can handle just about anything else but the police have guns and too much power. Unless you have an awful lot of money, they can pretty much do anything they want to you and sometimes they do.


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

nomansland said:


> I'm sure they realize. They get that stupid comment said to them quite often I'm sure.


Stupid? It's true. If more public servants understood their roles as just that we all might be in a better place. Not just on something as trivial as game laws. Hunting is second only to family with me but even I realize there is a biggest issue here. 

I have a natural respect for laws as I understand their necessity of and/or cost/benefit analysis of in living in a society. I have an inherent distrust for anyone in a position of "authority" as such "authority" lends itself to abuse. The ironic part here is that the "authority" is only perceived in the sense that it only applies to those who allow it to. Which generally means law abiding citizens / hunters are more readily available to and subject to abuse. 





Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


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## dorkbuck33 (Sep 12, 2011)

I think it's funny that the OP has never been back to this thread . Guilty ?? 
16 pages of the same thing over and over and over . Its hug your warden day , shake their hand and thank them .


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## pinwheeled (Apr 27, 2008)

I wonder how much of our tax money actually goes to pay for a officers wage? Do we have the right as a citizen to file a federal suit or complaint against a officer and agency for violation of our constitutional rights?


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

I go away for an elk hunt and get to come back to a thread so full of misconception and generalities, not sure where to begin. So, I poached :shade: a few posts accordingly.

First, the good...



law651 said:


> The open fields doctrine was first articulated by the U.S. Supreme Court in Hester v. United States,[3] which stated that “the special protection accorded by the Fourth Amendment to the people in their ‘persons, houses, papers, and effects,’ is not extended to the open fields."[4] This opinion appears to be decided on the basis that "open fields are not a "constitutionally protected area" because they cannot be construed as "persons, houses, papers, [or] effects."
> 
> This method of reasoning gave way with the arrival of the landmark case Katz v. U.S.,[5] which established a two-part test for what constitutes a search within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment. The relevant criteria are "first that a person have exhibited an actual (subjective) expectation of privacy and, second, that the expectation be one that society is prepared to recognize as reasonable'."[6] Under this new analysis of the Fourth Amendment, a search of an object or area where a person has no reasonable expectation of privacy is, in a legal sense, not a search at all. That search, therefore, does not trigger the protections of the Fourth Amendment.
> 
> ...


Yep, that's the "Open Fields" doctrine. And yep, it applies to all LEO, not just wardens. What has not been totally fleshed out though is what LEO is allowed to do once on the property. While they can be there 'legally' and any evidence they gather through observation (finding it on their own) is admissible, as far as what they are allowed to do when an actual 'contact' occurs is a little more detailed. Sure they can ask to see certain things...but can they 'demand' to see them? Maybe, maybe not. The individual's expectation of privacy and ability to be secure in their person does not change regardless of where they are at the time.

Also, while 'Open Fields' allows entry, whether they can stay is also its own little series of tributaries. The doctrine says entry is allowed and it is not a trespass, it does not say that they can remain after the actual owner of the property tells them to leave.




rodney482 said:


> I see a guy standing by a woods on private property..I can cross that property and speak with him... No suspicion.. No cause needed.
> 
> I dont need to see a gun or a pole or an orange hat.. I dont need a warrant or any exigent circumstance.
> 
> Open ground privacy is quite a bit different than searching you house or stop and frisk on the sidewalk.


Absolutely correct. But, the person doesn't have to speak back to you. Doesn't have to answer your questions, and may be entitled to require you to leave their property. Certainly evidence gathered may be usable, but refusal to talk and requesting you to leave is not evidence of anything, certainly not anything amounting to PC...shouldn't even be reasonable suspicion IMO. A person exercising their right is not suspicion of anything criminal, though I know a number of LEOs who think it is (Don't think you are one of them though :wink




bsites9 said:


> That's where you're wrong, and always will be wrong. You're breaking the law, at bare minimum by breaking traffic laws. And if you're getting asked those other questions, chances are you're breaking much bigger laws.
> 
> I can tell you this with 100% accuracy. I was never ONCE wrong when I had a hunch that someone was either under the influence, or had drugs in the car. I'm sure I got fooled some by the guy who did have it and I didn't know, but I never once thought someone had something illegal and turned out wrong.
> 
> This all started by one guy being pissed that he got checked by L.E. while he was hunting. And for the record, the OP never stated he was even on private property in his opening statement. But all the people who are bound and determined to show that they won't "be ruled" by L.E. just jumped to that conclusion to have something to ***** about.


Yes, if a person is stopped for a traffic violation, they are required to do certain things. Generally, present a drivers license(all of the needed info is on that), proof of insurance, and registration. Beyond that, nothing else is required to be provided, and questions unrelated to the reason for the stop are not required to be answered. Questions related to the stop are.

Example of question related: "Is the information on your license correct?"

Example of question unrelated: "Where you going/where you coming from?"

Driver has an 'obligation' though not strict, to answer whether the information on the license accurate. Of course, they can lie about it too, its up to LEOs to discover otherwise, it's not up to the citizen to help them, nor is it an obligation. As far as where a person is going or coming from, there is zero obligation to respond to this question, and it is none of the LEO's business. Most people answer (whether they do it knowingly or not is a whole other issue), but refusal of people to answer is neither criminal nor does it amount to suspicion that something else illegal is happening. The only suspicion it implies is that a citizen is exercising their rights. LEOs who swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution fail in upholding that oath when they treat people exercising their rights as criminals.

With regard to the rest of this thread...yes, I recognize that a lot of states through statutory law attempt to give COs a whole lot more power and authority than 'normal' LEOs...certainly with respect to search powers. However, statutes can never be superior to the Constitution. And absent very limited exceptions (exigent circumstances) wardens cannot enter into private property (houses) and conduct searches without a warrant or consent. Where exigent circumstances allow them to enter, they are only allowed entry to resolve the exigent circumstance, for example destruction of evidence. Once that is stopped, then any evidence in plain view can be seized. But they cannot continue searching without first securing a warrant. The plain view evidence can be used to support the warrant.

Another example: LEOs, whether city police or wardens, enter a house in pursuit of a suspect. Perfectly legal. They can even perform a 'search' in the immediate area where the person is apprehended. But, they cannot search the remainder of the house for anything without a warrant. If there is no plain view evidence, and no other evidence of criminal activity amounting to PC, they are going to have a really hard time securing a warrant.

What is 'sad' about these threads is the willingness of so many people to not only waive their rights (any fool is entitled to waive what is his), but also their willingness to waive the rights of others, and voluntarily bow down to the power of the state. We are DOOMED...


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## hawgdawg (Sep 8, 2002)

I've been checked several times over the years but never been checked in the woods or on stand. They have always checked me where I park at when getting there or coming out.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

Rolo said:


> I go away for an elk hunt and get to come back to a thread so full of misconception and generalities, not sure where to begin. So, I poached :shade: a few posts accordingly.
> 
> First, the good...
> 
> ...


You got it figured well. There is though the reliance upon the court to rule well, thankfully the ruling isn't dependent upon one court, appeals typically straighten out a wrong ruling. 

I think there are and maybe it's always been this way more than enough people who will march a people into their doom. These people scare me, but I'd rather know how they think than expect them to be different when a doomsday comes they ushered in. They won't be the first to go, but when the first are consumed they will be thanked for their loyalty to the State and awarded with slavery or death. History 101. 

Same people believe people shouldn't be as equipped as the military claiming when the second was agreed upon the people only had ML's, the very same thing the military had yet they don't see that. Evidence everyday that our government is losing any respect or fear of the people, the courts, the great levelers are holding on by a thread. When that entity falls doomsday will be here and many here will line up willingly to show their papers claiming it's a privilege and anyone who disagrees isn't worth the time of day. That is till the once friendly stop becomes daily anywhere anytime for any reason with whatever force the gestapo decides upon.


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

I can't believe how many of you guys are okay with a warden coming to your stand to check you out. :shocked:
Bet you would feel different if he cost you the buck of a lifetime :exclaim:
I lease with a guy who would probably shoot me dead if I walked up to his tree stand and cost him a big buck. :uzi::walk: :rip:


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

Rolo said:


> I go away for an elk hunt and get to come back to a thread so full of misconception and generalities, not sure where to begin. So, I poached :shade: a few posts accordingly.
> 
> First, the good...
> 
> ...


It's about time you showed up!

In Rodney's quote above....can he cross a fence to do it? What about bypass a no trespassing sign?


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## Bee Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Mad? Are you a child???
Do you realize their athority is higher than police, fbi, pretty much any other leo? Did you know they can search your private property without a warrant? 
I dont see why you were at a breaking point. Leo are our friends. Theyre here to help us. Game wardens protect us against poaching and other such injustices. If they think you have poached game on you prpoerty they can search and confiscate it. 
Now about the tryin to get shot part, in short you haveto be an idiot to shoot them. In long, they hope your smart enough not to shoot them, and if you intentionally try to shoot them they will shoot you first. Oh yeah, they have more authority than standard police when it comes to using force against you, think about it, some idiot poachers ma try and kill them on sight. 
But work with them and they will help you alot. They are here or our good. Wouldnt u be mad if they didnt chekc people, jst let everyone hunt illegally while you pay for all the licensing?


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Skeptic said:


> It's about time you showed up!
> 
> In Rodney's quote above....can he cross a fence to do it? What about bypass a no trespassing sign?


Under the open fields doctrine, it would be permissible for a LEO to cross the fence (assuming a couple of things) and they can ignore postings (again, assuming a couple of things). Most states follow this. The assumptions, primarily with the fence: that it is a fence that is intended to keep things like cows in, and not intended to keep people out. If it is a high fence (think 8' high chain link, then there is arguably an expectation of privacy, and a warrantless entry would be illegal.

The real issue that Wardens and other LEOs face is when they encounter the owner of the property. and he or she tells them to get off the property. Assuming the CO has not found any evidence, and has not developed reasonable suspicion, they pretty much gotta go, and have a really hard time justifying staying. Big issue is that most LOs don't care, and actually like the idea of someone else watching their property for them, (at least in my neck of the woods) so they don't really care. Those that aren't up to anything illegal that is. But, if the person the CO is contacting is not the LO, and there with permission, there ain't a thing he or she can do about it. It is not their property, and they have no expectations of privacy concerning the property that is not theirs.

Another interesting discussion is whether it is Constitutionally permissible for a Co to demand to see a person's hunting license, regardless of property ownership. There is nothing suspicious (i.e. inherently illegal) about someone hunting or fishing. Just as there is nothing suspicious about a person driving car. It is impermissible for LEOs to randomly stop people driving cars to see if they have a drivers license. Why then it is permissible for COs to do it? Both are privileges...

Yes, I realize there's a whole bunch of statutory law that appears to take the Constitution and flush it down the toilet...but those statutes are what are the material to be flushed...statutes cannot restrict Constitutional rights...or completely get rid of them...like warrantless searches of houses.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Bee Man said:


> Mad? Are you a child???
> Do you realize their athority is higher than police, fbi, pretty much any other leo? Did you know *they can search your private property without a warrant?*
> I dont see why you were at a breaking point. Leo are our friends. Theyre here to help us. Game wardens protect us against poaching and other such injustices. If they think you have poached game on you prpoerty they can search and confiscate it.
> Now about the tryin to get shot part, in short you haveto be an idiot to shoot them. In long, they hope your smart enough not to shoot them, and if you intentionally try to shoot them they will shoot you first. Oh yeah, they have more authority than standard police when it comes to using force against you, think about it, some idiot poachers ma try and kill them on sight.
> But work with them and they will help you alot. They are here or our good. Wouldnt u be mad if they didnt chekc people, jst let everyone hunt illegally while you pay for all the licensing?


Um...no, they cannot, absent very limited exceptions. COs, just like every other LEO are agents of the State. Their power and authority is restricted just like all other State agents. Little thing called the Constitution.

As far as being "our friends"...well I have a lot of friends who are LEOs, but they ain't my friend because of that. LEOs, in their official capacity are neither my friend nor my enemy, so long as they remember that little oath they took.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

The oath is important, but alot of folks forget about it.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

zap said:


> The oath is important, but alot of folks forget about it.


Most baby cops don't remember even taking it...they're too busy being the young bull and running down the hill toward the cows...


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

Rolo said:


> Under the open fields doctrine, it would be permissible for a LEO to cross the fence (assuming a couple of things) and they can ignore postings (again, assuming a couple of things). Most states follow this. The assumptions, primarily with the fence: that it is a fence that is intended to keep things like cows in, and not intended to keep people out. If it is a high fence (think 8' high chain link, then there is arguably an expectation of privacy, and a warrantless entry would be illegal.
> 
> The real issue that Wardens and other LEOs face is when they encounter the owner of the property. and he or she tells them to get off the property. Assuming the CO has not found any evidence, and has not developed reasonable suspicion, they pretty much gotta go, and have a really hard time justifying staying. Big issue is that most LOs don't care, and actually like the idea of someone else watching their property for them, (at least in my neck of the woods) so they don't really care. Those that aren't up to anything illegal that is. *But, if the person the CO is contacting is not the LO, and there with permission, there ain't a thing he or she can do about it. It is not their property, and they have no expectations of privacy concerning the property that is not theirs.*
> 
> ...


What if the non-LO is working as an agent of the LO to ensure nobody without permission enters the property?


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Fortyneck said:


> What if the non-LO is working as an agent of the LO to ensure nobody without permission enters the property?


Doesn't matter. No expectation of privacy of/on property that is not yours. Individual rights / expectations is the key.


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## jaybird0399 (Nov 14, 2011)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


That's wrong in every way, CO has every right to check you wherever your at hunting, they can even enter your private property and check you. It's their job and it's a necessary part of hunting


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## BowtechHunter65 (Nov 5, 2012)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


It is absolutely legal in the State of Ohio and is a great thing. I have been checked many times in my 25+ years of hunting and have never had a problem. I don't mind it because I am always legal. I welcome the ODNR taking an active stance and trying to catch the many hunters hunting illegally, on private property or hunting w/o a licence. A game warden doesnt have to have probable cause to do his or her job. Thanks much to all the game wardens who have a dangerous and often thankless job!


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## Toonces (Dec 16, 2008)

Rolo said:


> I go away for an elk hunt and get to come back to a thread so full of misconception and generalities, not sure where to begin.
> 
> ..


About time you showed up. I was going to issue an Amber Alert.


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## hobbs4421 (May 20, 2006)

That's correct! It sucks that they bother you while you are hunting, but they surely have the right to do it. Ours here in PA usualy check ya when you are on your way out of the woods.


MidFlight said:


> You were told wrong, that is exactly waht they get paid to do...wear a uniform and enforce game laws which includes walking into the woods and checking hunters


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## Beed321 (Aug 22, 2012)

i agree it is within their jurisdiction to walk right up and do this. but out of courtesy to a hard hunting bow hunter trying to close in on a kill, they should check you before you head to the stand or when you come out


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## newview (Sep 28, 2010)

Beed321 said:


> i agree it is within their jurisdiction to walk right up and do this. but out of courtesy to a hard hunting bow hunter trying to close in on a kill, they should check you before you head to the stand or when you come out


Please! Like you are the only concern of a Conservation Officer! I applaud the officer who is willing to check as many hunters as possible in a given time! Do you really believe the CO stopped you from killing a buck of a life time?


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

Rolo said:


> Under the open fields doctrine, it would be permissible for a LEO to cross the fence (assuming a couple of things) and they can ignore postings (again, assuming a couple of things). Most states follow this. The assumptions, primarily with the fence: that it is a fence that is intended to keep things like cows in, and not intended to keep people out. If it is a high fence (think 8' high chain link, then there is arguably an expectation of privacy, and a warrantless entry would be illegal.
> 
> The real issue that Wardens and other LEOs face is when they encounter the owner of the property. and he or she tells them to get off the property. Assuming the CO has not found any evidence, and has not developed reasonable suspicion, they pretty much gotta go, and have a really hard time justifying staying. Big issue is that most LOs don't care, and actually like the idea of someone else watching their property for them, (at least in my neck of the woods) so they don't really care. Those that aren't up to anything illegal that is. But, if the person the CO is contacting is not the LO, and there with permission, there ain't a thing he or she can do about it. It is not their property, and they have no expectations of privacy concerning the property that is not theirs.
> 
> ...


Barbed wire. He might get in but it's gonna hurt! Can I be held liable if a Leo hurts himself crossing my fence? Although it is a livestock type fence my reason for putting it up was strictly to keep people out.


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## Yooper720 (Nov 25, 2009)

Most of you guys have no clue about this law. A CO in Michigan for example can not come on property unless he has probable cause. Yes, they can say they have a tip but they are going to need documentation. Two of my friends are CO's here in Michigan and I have talked to them about this last year. They lost a case in court 2 years ago where the CO's received a "tip" and went on private property. They issued several tickets to the property owner for over baiting and illegally tagged deer. The land owner was a big named lawyer in our area and he fought the ticket. He not only had the tickets dropped but also went after the MDNR. That part of the case is still pending. Everyone always thinks a CO can do whatever they want but that is not the case at all.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Toonces said:


> About time you showed up. I was going to issue an Amber Alert.


Aw shucks. :shade:


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Skeptic said:


> Barbed wire. He might get in but it's gonna hurt! Can I be held liable if a Leo hurts himself crossing my fence? Although it is a livestock type fence my reason for putting it up was strictly to keep people out.


Probably not. How high?


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

Rolo said:


> Probably not. How high?


4 ft. Gotta let the deer get in.


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## scrub1 (Feb 4, 2008)

trkytrack2 said:


> Don't know where you live but in Colorado they have more power than any other police office. They can enter any piece of property or home, search any person, automobile, truck and stop and detain any person without your permission or a warrant, anytime day or night.


So what you are saying is the US constitution does not exist to game wardens.


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## jkratz (Mar 28, 2007)

We have a very good CO in our area. He checks us and everyoen around almost every year and I appreciate his efforts. Only thing that he has ever done that I questioned was during the gun season when he walked through the property during opening morning to check us and the neighbors and was only wearing his officer uniform. Thought he should probably have orange on and could have probably waited to check us until we got down and back to our vehicles. Not going to tell him how to do his job though as I appreciate the fact that he patrols the area heavily.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

I don't know which type of LEO has the most power, but the only ones that concern me are US Customs. You are not a citizen until they agree you are a citizen. They can dismantle your vehicle (car, airplane) and leave you standing there to put it back together. They can fine you $11,000 for forgetting an apple in your luggage. I despise going through customs.


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## BoHunter0210 (Oct 3, 2011)

In my part of PA they have a bad reputation. Most of the hunters don't trust the wardens or PGC. They just seem to always think you are doing something illegal. I don't think they should be able to have some of the power that they do like going on to private property without a warrant.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

The reason they believe the people they stop or question are breaking the law is probably because they are...I'm guessing that a majority of hunters don't know all the laws, just some of the laws.


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

skynight said:


> I don't know which type of LEO has the most power, but the only ones that concern me are US Customs. You are not a citizen until they agree you are a citizen. They can dismantle your vehicle (car, airplane) and leave you standing there to put it back together. They can fine you $11,000 for forgetting an apple in your luggage. I despise going through customs.


Who packs apples in their luggage?


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

mn5503 said:


> Who packs apples in their luggage?


New age tree huggers from California that now live in Colorado??????


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

mn5503 said:


> Who packs apples in their luggage?


Hungry people.



snoman4 said:


> New age tree huggers from California that now live in Colorado??????


You don't know crap about me obviously.

I guess the two of you think $11000 for a piece of fruit is reasonable. And I'm the new age hippie.


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## snoman4 (Jul 1, 2011)

skynight said:


> Hungry people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lighten up Francis it was all in sarcasm......Lots of new age hippies in certain locales in Colorado from what I have read and been told. The seance last year for the elk the poacher former LEO's killed took the cake though. I always wanted to move to Colorado when I retire but now that the liberals from California have taken over politics in the state it is looking more and more like Idaho or Montana are in my future plans.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Skeptic said:


> 4 ft. Gotta let the deer get in.


The following is all a very general discussion...

Under the U.S S.Ct.'s reasoning on the open fields doctrine, a 4 ft tall barb wire fence is unlikely to be sufficient to take the field into the realm of a 'closed' field. Thus, an agent of the State could go onto the private property without permission and probable cause, and articulable reasonable suspicion and not be criminally trespassing, and any evidence gathered could be used to prosecute the land owner. Even if you had contiguous 'no trespassing signs along the entire length of the fence, for Open Fields (U.S. S. Ct.) it matters not. Yes, the irony that a single 'no trespassing sign' can be used as justification for the prosecution of a normal citizen for trespassing, and thereby deprive them of a civil right, but is meaningless when it comes to state agents, is no lost on me.

But, and here's where the nuances come in. Individual states are free to place higher restrictions on the ability of state agents to enter private property and open fields. They could find that under the State Constitution, a reasonable articulable suspicion of criminal activity is required before the entry without a warrant is justified. A 'reasonable articulable suspicion of criminal activity' is more than just a hunch or gut feeling. For example, say during the firearm deer season, a CO hears a shot after the legal shooting hours. Is this a reasonable articulable suspicion of criminal activity? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on what else the CO is able to articulate. Shooting a firearm after 'legal shooting time' for a particular game species is not criminal. It is only criminal if it is shot at the particular species. So, what else does the Co articulate to justify entry? Depends on other knowledge, and is really a case by case determination. But, shooting a firearm after legal shooting hours is not a criminal activity itself.

And, remember, it is only the LO, whether under the U.S Constitution, or the State Constitution, that has a potential expectation/right of privacy. A permissive hunter, but not the LO, has zero expectation of privacy on property that he/she does not own. So, in States that place more restrictions on the entry than the U.S. S.Ct. does, if a Co, or other LEO illegally enters the property as it pertains to the LO, there is a likely chance that any evidence gathered against the LO gets suppressed, and cannot be used to prosecute the LO. His/her rights were violated. But, any evidence gathered against a permissive user of the property that is not the owner, could be used in a criminal prosecution against that person because they have no expectation of privacy on that property.

More confusion. In states that are more restrictive, a Federal Co or Federal LEO can enter the property regardless of the State law, and any evidence gathered against the LO can be used against him/her in a prosecution for a violation of the Federal Law. It could not be used in a State prosecution against the Lo assuming whatever heightened burden required by State law cannot be met. Example, a Federal CO has jurisdiction to investigate potential violations of migratory game bird laws. There are specific Federal statutes dealing with them. There are also State statutes. So, a Federal CO can ignore the State law if he is investigating a Federal violation.

More confusion. The Federal CO while ignoring the State law and investigating a potential violation of Fed. law, comes across evidence of a State game law violation. Say illegal baiting of deer. There is no Federal statute on this issue and nothing to be enforced on the Federal level. (Assuming that there is no evidence that a deer was killed over the illegal bait and then transported across state lines). The Federal Co calls the State CO about this violation. (Contrary to popular belief, I have never met a Federal CO who also has State enforcement power, or a State CO who has Federal enforcement power. They can assist in investigations across jurisdictions, but actually being recognized, or having both Fed. and State enforcement power is more urban myth than reality, except in limited circumstances). Back to the issue...there is a strong argument that the evidence the Fed. CO discovered of a State law violation cannot be used to prosecute the LO assuming the State imposes a higher burden for entry and it cannot be met. The evidence was gathered by the government (it doesn't matter whether it was the Fed. or State agent) and is going to be used in a State prosecution. State Constitutional or statutory law controls State prosecutions, so evidence gathered by the government could likely not be used. Confused yet?

One issue that generally remains undecided by the U.S. S.Ct. is what happens when a state agent, after entry under the open fields doctrine, encounters the LO prior to any evidence of a crime being found, and the LO tells the Co to beat it and get off his/her property. Now, we have a LO asserting a right that is his/hers. This is a step or 2 beyond a short fence and a no trespassing sign. It is actual communication from the LO that invokes his property right, and arguably creates an expectation of privacy that was not created by the fence or sign. Open fields generally stands for the proposition that a low fence and sign are insufficient to create an expectation of privacy. Arguably, the state agent would be required to leave, or potentially be guilty of trespassing themselves, and also any evidence gathered after the actual communication from the LO potentially may be unusable to prosecute the LO.

Again, it matters not whether the agent of the State is a CO or police officer, or Sheriff when it comes to Constitutional protections from actions of the State. LEOs, other than and including COs, are allowed entry onto private property under the U.S. Ct.'s open fields ruling. An agent of the State is an agent of the State, regardless of which agency they are employed by. Individual states may give these different agencies different authority and powers, and as long as Constitutional, there's not a problem. Heck, individual states could limit LEOs, other than COs from entering private property under the open fields doctrine, but allow COs to do it. As long as it is permissible under the State Constitution, it would be ok for the state to do. Funny thing is, if the other LEOs enter the property in violation of State law, and find evidence of a Federal Crime, they can refer it on to the appropriate Federal LEOs and agencies, and the evidence could likely be used in a Federal prosecution.

As I said in my first post, there's a whole lotta nuances that may come into play, and there is a gross misunderstanding of the issues that are present, I won't even get into whether state statutes that purportedly allow COs to enter private residences and search without a warrant (absent very limited exceptions that apply to all LEOs) are remotely Constitutional any more than I have. But it sure seems there's an awful lot of folks who are more than willing to sacrifice their rights to the State. If they're dumb enough to do it, I don't care...but they ought not be advocating for others to be equally willing sheep.


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## lucky buck (Apr 12, 2008)

Rolo, excellent post.


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## IAWoodsman (Nov 30, 2012)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


Yes it's legal, some states like South Dakota have a law where they can't enter private land, but in most states they can. They have a lot of power. My advice..get along with them, be friendly, and do everything by the books. Once they check you a couple times, they'll know you do it the right way and will generally let you be. I used to do a lot of duck hunting in Nebraska, and whenever we would get checked we would offer the CO's a cup of coffee, invite them into the cabin, and most of them are actually really nice guys who like hunting just as much as we do...so chat with them, make a friend. 

I'm happy to have them around.


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## IAWoodsman (Nov 30, 2012)

tatergreer13 said:


> Is this even legal for a officer to do. Seems kind of dangerous to me not to mention pissin me off to a breaking point. Im sure they have the right to but seems dumb. They just came in on us without probable cause and checked everything right under my stand and at the same time another wildlife officer was checking my friend 500 yards away


I went to school for wildlife and fisheries sciences. I took a "human dimensions in wildlife" class and we talked a lot about private land and wildlife. There's a doctrine that the U.S. adopted called "The North American Model for Wildlife Management". If your interested I could send you some pdf's about it. 

Basically, it states that wildlife is a "public trust" and no one owns wildlife. But it's a really gray area because of land ownership. For example, if you're hunting deer on your land you have property rights and technically (under the fourth amendment) a CO shouldn't be able to come on your land unless he/she has probable cause to do so. But, if wildlife is a "public trust", you don't own the wildlife on your land, so if your hunting that wildlife, the CO (as the person who enforces wildlife related laws), should have the ability to protect the wildlife and enforce those laws on all land. 

I don't know, I'm not taking sides either way, but it's a really interesting issue. Yeah it's your land and your property, but what you are pursing on your land is not technically yours, so how is that regulated? Interesting discussion.


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## Kruck5 (Jan 8, 2008)

People, we now live in a socialist country! They have a gun and a badge! That gives them unlimited and uchecked power! This is what the country has voted for, get used to it!! Going to be a very long time brfore it turns around. Maybe never


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

IAWoodsman said:


> I went to school for wildlife and fisheries sciences. I took a "human dimensions in wildlife" class and we talked a lot about private land and wildlife. There's a doctrine that the U.S. adopted called "The North American Model for Wildlife Management". If your interested I could send you some pdf's about it.
> 
> Basically, it states that wildlife is a "public trust" and no one owns wildlife. But it's a really gray area because of land ownership. For example, if you're hunting deer on your land you have property rights and technically (under the fourth amendment) a CO shouldn't be able to come on your land unless he/she has probable cause to do so. But, if wildlife is a "public trust", you don't own the wildlife on your land, so if your hunting that wildlife, the CO (as the person who enforces wildlife related laws), should have the ability to protect the wildlife and enforce those laws on all land.
> 
> I don't know, I'm not taking sides either way, but it's a really interesting issue. Yeah it's your land and your property, but what you are pursing on your land is not technically yours, so how is that regulated? Interesting discussion.


Unless he just starts walking around people's properties how will the CO know if someone is hunting though? Myself for example, live at the end of a mile long dead end road with no other houses down it. At the end is my property, which is gated and fenced, and you have to drive a couple hundred yards past that to even see the house. I sure don't like the idea he could just come in at his free will and leisure because he "thinks" I might be hunting. I follow the game laws, but I love my privacy! I'd be pretty pissed to see him or anyone else on my property unannounced.


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## hawkdriver55 (Sep 6, 2010)

Have to share a good story about a DNR officer. Last month a friend and I were hunting on public land and had been allowed to cross some private land to get into the remote back side of the public land. This put us about 2.5 miles from the only public entrance to the public land. We ended up shooting a buck and as we bloodtrailed down the ridge I saw a orange hat. I walked over to the guy and told him what we were doing and said we were sorry if we messed up his hunt. He offered to get down and help us look for the deer. I thanked him and told him no thanks we didn't want to ruin his hunt that evening. I went back to bloodtrailing and the guy waved my buddy over and tossed down his keys to his tuck. The guy in the tree told him to take the keys open the first gate into the public land and then gave my friend the code to the second gate and said drive your truck back in here to get your deer. There is no need to drag it 3/4s of a mile to the road. My friend said "what is DNR going to say if they catch me?" The guy in the tree told my friend that he was a DNR officer and that he could just lock the keys in the toyota parked at the first gate on the way out because he had a spare with him. Because of the nice DNR officer our drag was only 40 yards .....not 3/4 of a mile. He didn't know us from adam and he offered to stop hunting and help and then gave us his keys to the gate and his truck!!!!! There are still some good folks out there.


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## willy boy (Jan 28, 2013)

They have more jurisdiction than anyone in the state.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

IAWoodsman said:


> I went to school for wildlife and fisheries sciences. I took a "human dimensions in wildlife" class and we talked a lot about private land and wildlife. There's a doctrine that the U.S. adopted called "The North American Model for Wildlife Management". If your interested I could send you some pdf's about it.
> 
> Basically, it states that wildlife is a "public trust" and no one owns wildlife. But it's a really gray area because of land ownership. For example, if you're hunting deer on your land you have property rights and technically (under the fourth amendment) a CO shouldn't be able to come on your land unless he/she has probable cause to do so. But, if wildlife is a "public trust", you don't own the wildlife on your land, so if your hunting that wildlife, the CO (as the person who enforces wildlife related laws), should have the ability to protect the wildlife and enforce those laws on all land.
> 
> I don't know, I'm not taking sides either way, but it's a really interesting issue. Yeah it's your land and your property, but what you are pursing on your land is not technically yours, so how is that regulated? Interesting discussion.


Doesn't sound gray, sounds like the CO must see the hunter , not looking like he/she is hunting, but actually with a hunted animal. Just because someone looks like X doesn't give anyone legal probable cause especially on their own land.

Teaching freedom isn't something government is big on, giving up freedom is very popular though. It's interesting that for all the education we have in this country supposedly with freedom as a foundation how very little of it people understand. Got to be deliberately done.


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## Bfreeman (Sep 5, 2012)

Kstigall said:


> I know not every state has the same laws. I fully expect that game wardens can do as they please to certain extent on public property.
> In Va. I'm not so sure game wardens can just stroll on to private property that is posted without probable cause or reason to think laws are being broken. That would be similar to the police searching your back yard without cause to do so. However, I would love for a game warden to walk our property lines on a regular basis during gun season!


I am from Va and my father in law has 250 acres here. Last year 2 game wardens pulled up and started waking behind the farm house, my father in law come out and asked what they were doing , this was his property and everyone there had permission. He told him to go back inside and that's why they where there to make sure everyone had permission. They even checked one of his friends licenses that wasn't even hunting just sitting there talking to my father in law. I know they have a job but they go around like they have a personal hatred for anyone that hunts or fishes. I have never been checked hunting but got into it with a game wardOn trout fishing and have never bought a trout license since. How do people expect a new generation of hunters/fishers to come up with this type of Harassment


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## Krennen (Oct 5, 2011)

This thread is full of FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet 98% of you will be the first to whine and cry when someone poaches a deer off your property about "why wasn't the warden doing his job", but you want to cry because he is doing it. Put your big girl panties on, follow the laws, be polite and let them do their jobs so we can continue to enjoy our hobby.

I am sorry I wasted my time reading this post, I want my 18 pages of time back.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

you've been on here long enough to know how threads go...you WANTED to read through it.


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## Square_Dancer (Nov 12, 2012)

buckeyboy said:


> Place your bet's folks .. I say 20 pages..


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## Krennen (Oct 5, 2011)

Square_Dancer said:


>


Now that just ain't right :lol3:


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

I find this thread quite ironic in that almost daily there is a thread about a poacher or tresspasser in which everybody wants this type of activity stopped. Yet, in this thread you all are complaining that game wardens have TOO much power? Hummm, interesting. I say let them be to do their jobs. If it is hunting season, and they see you carrying a weapon, wether you are on private land or public land, they can check you in most states. That's the way it is and I am glad it is that way. If you are legal what are you worried about? If you are doing something illegal, such as poaching or tresspassing, well, they got you and for good reason. 

Basically either stop whining about poachers and tresspassers, or stop whining that game wardens have to much power. Pick one and move on.


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## Square_Dancer (Nov 12, 2012)

Krennen said:


> Now that just ain't right :lol3:


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## Baldona523 (Feb 12, 2010)

If you aren't doing anything illegal, who cares about being checked? LEOs are not going to waste their time with legal people, they'll check you once and move on for the rest of the season usually. Yeah there are stories and I have my own of being checked multiple times, but by and large they don't want to waste time on rechecking people.

There's a huge difference between what they do, and what will hold up in court. Just because they are doing a check, does not mean it is always legal.


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## IAWoodsman (Nov 30, 2012)

nodog said:


> Doesn't sound gray, sounds like the CO must see the hunter , not looking like he/she is hunting, but actually with a hunted animal. Just because someone looks like X doesn't give anyone legal probable cause especially on their own land.
> 
> Teaching freedom isn't something government is big on, giving up freedom is very popular though. It's interesting that for all the education we have in this country supposedly with freedom as a foundation how very little of it people understand. Got to be deliberately done.


I'm all about freedom, I'm not saying I agree with the laws, I was just trying to share my understanding of them .


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## IAWoodsman (Nov 30, 2012)

Skeptic said:


> Unless he just starts walking around people's properties how will the CO know if someone is hunting though? Myself for example, live at the end of a mile long dead end road with no other houses down it. At the end is my property, which is gated and fenced, and you have to drive a couple hundred yards past that to even see the house. I sure don't like the idea he could just come in at his free will and leisure because he "thinks" I might be hunting. I follow the game laws, but I love my privacy! I'd be pretty pissed to see him or anyone else on my property unannounced.


Exactly, and I agree with you, I don't like the idea of it either. My guess is he knew you were hunting in there before he started walking on your property.


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

Skeptic said:


> Unless he just starts walking around people's properties how will the CO know if someone is hunting though? Myself for example, live at the end of a mile long dead end road with no other houses down it. At the end is my property, which is gated and fenced, and you have to drive a couple hundred yards past that to even see the house. I sure don't like the idea he could just come in at his free will and leisure because he "thinks" I might be hunting. I follow the game laws, but I love my privacy! I'd be pretty pissed to see him or anyone else on my property unannounced.


If it is hunting season and he see's you dressed in camo carrying a weapon he probably knows you are hunting.


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## IAWoodsman (Nov 30, 2012)

hawkdriver55 said:


> Have to share a good story about a DNR officer. Last month a friend and I were hunting on public land and had been allowed to cross some private land to get into the remote back side of the public land. This put us about 2.5 miles from the only public entrance to the public land. We ended up shooting a buck and as we bloodtrailed down the ridge I saw a orange hat. I walked over to the guy and told him what we were doing and said we were sorry if we messed up his hunt. He offered to get down and help us look for the deer. I thanked him and told him no thanks we didn't want to ruin his hunt that evening. I went back to bloodtrailing and the guy waved my buddy over and tossed down his keys to his tuck. The guy in the tree told him to take the keys open the first gate into the public land and then gave my friend the code to the second gate and said drive your truck back in here to get your deer. There is no need to drag it 3/4s of a mile to the road. My friend said "what is DNR going to say if they catch me?" The guy in the tree told my friend that he was a DNR officer and that he could just lock the keys in the toyota parked at the first gate on the way out because he had a spare with him. Because of the nice DNR officer our drag was only 40 yards .....not 3/4 of a mile. He didn't know us from adam and he offered to stop hunting and help and then gave us his keys to the gate and his truck!!!!! There are still some good folks out there.


That's awesome. Most CO's are just like us, they grew up hunting and fishing, and share the same values we do. We have to get over this idea that there out to get us. Because it's really the opposite, they want us out there hunting and they want us to be successful.


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## corbinlee (Mar 7, 2008)

today the oklahoma wildlife dept is having a live chat with a warden on facebook, so i asked this question, and the answer for OK at least is "hunting and fishing activity is reason enough for GW to enter private property and investigate further."
so there is your answer for OK, not sure about other states


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## Huff/MO (Dec 9, 2008)

TheWood!! said:


> I find this thread quite ironic in that almost daily there is a thread about a poacher or tresspasser in which everybody wants this type of activity stopped. Yet, in this thread you all are complaining that game wardens have TOO much power? Hummm, interesting. I say let them be to do their jobs. If it is hunting season, and they see you carrying a weapon, wether you are on private land or public land, they can check you in most states. That's the way it is and I am glad it is that way. If you are legal what are you worried about? If you are doing something illegal, such as poaching or tresspassing, well, they got you and for good reason.
> 
> Basically either stop whining about poachers and tresspassers, or stop whining that game wardens have to much power. Pick one and move on.


Every day I see articles in the paper about murders and robberies. Everybody wants this type of activity stopped too... Perhaps you owning weapons is enough reason to let the police come in your house whenever they want to make sure you're using your weapons legally? Probably should give them a copy of your car keys and email password too. If you're legal, what are you worried about?


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## d4vos (Aug 8, 2011)

SM270 said:


> From what I have been told is that if they walk in the woods on you while you are hunting and they are dressed in full uniform if you can prove that via picture it is considered hunter harrasment and they can be terminated from their posistion


They can literally drive their truck into your hunting spot, take a crap, and wipe with your toilet paper all while the sirens are blaring if they wanted to. 

They have the most power of any of the branches, and for good cause... Many dishonest and criminal hunters out there lately. Even had them board my boat and handcuff us all, which I did take much discomfort with. I told them next time they handcuff peoples its probably a good idea to put a life jacket on them.. Would be a pretty crappy way to die drowning with your hands cuffed behind your back, and the officers agreed. 

Other funny part is a few people "fishing for lobster" were actually nude sun bathing... But that's a different story for a different time. I also questioned them how we could possibly be diving for lobster when we were on the other side of the islands where lobster haven't been seen in 20 years. Alas, qualifications for the job do not include actual wildlife experience..


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

Huff/MO said:


> Every day I see articles in the paper about murders and robberies. Everybody wants this type of activity stopped too... Perhaps you owning weapons is enough reason to let the police come in your house whenever they want to make sure you're using your weapons legally? Probably should give them a copy of your car keys and email password too. If you're legal, what are you worried about?


Over-react much? Their job is to make sure those out hunting are doing it legally. If they cannot go onto private property to check to make sure those hunting there are legal, then what? I had a game warden open a gate on private property I was hunting and drive right up to me. He checked my license and my paperwork, said good luck and left. Two days before that we had some guys hunting on our property that did not have permission. Same game warden caught them and cited them for tresspassing. I am damn glad he was able to do so. 

The big difference in your absurd comparison, is that I own my home and I own my guns. Police cannot come into my home and check my guns, because I own them. They do not. That is not so in the case of hunting. You may own the land, but you do not own the game on that land. It belongs to the state. Not hard to figure out really if you have half a brain cell. So, please, stop with the goofy analogies until you actually know what you are talking about. 

We would have a crap load more tresspassing and poaching threads on here everyday if game wardens were not allowed to enter private property. Poachers would have a field day if they knew they could enter private land and not worry about game wardens. Use the brain God gave you for once.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

TheWood!! said:


> Over-react much? Their job is to make sure those out hunting are doing it legally. If they cannot go onto private property to check to make sure those hunting there are legal, then what? I had a game warden open a gate on private property I was hunting and drive right up to me. He checked my license and my paperwork, said good luck and left. Two days before that we had some guys hunting on our property that did not have permission. Same game warden caught them and cited them for tresspassing. I am damn glad he was able to do so.
> 
> The big difference in your absurd comparison, is that I own my home and I own my guns. Police cannot come into my home and check my guns, because I own them. They do not. That is not so in the case of hunting. You may own the land, but you do not own the game on that land. It belongs to the state. Not hard to figure out really if you have half a brain cell. So, please, stop with the goofy analogies until you actually know what you are talking about.
> 
> We would have a crap load more tresspassing and poaching threads on here everyday if game wardens were not allowed to enter private property. Poachers would have a field day if they knew they could enter private land and not worry about game wardens. Use the brain God gave you for once.


You do understand that there are some State laws that purport to allow COs to enter your house without a warrant and check your guns don't you? Are you OK with this? The issue is the CO accessing property in potential violation of the owner's rights. It has nutt'n to do with the rights of the people who don't have a right to be there.

Personally, I don't really care if you are OK with it or not on your property...I do care if you are OK with it on my property, and think property owners should willingly lay over to the power of the State. That is the point. And if you think the willingness of the citizen to lay over for the government will conveniently stop at all matters conservation, you do not have a good understanding of history. 

So, if you want to surrender your rights...that is your right...but please refrain from implying that everyone else ought to be equally happy to do the same...


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

Rolo said:


> You do understand that there are some State laws that purport to allow COs to enter your house without a warrant and check your guns don't you? Are you OK with this? The issue is the CO accessing property in potential violation of the owner's rights. It has nutt'n to do with the rights of the people who don't have a right to be there.
> 
> Personally, I don't really care if you are OK with it or not on your property...I do care if you are OK with it on my property, and think property owners should willingly lay over to the power of the State. That is the point. And if you think the willingness of the citizen to lay over for the government will conveniently stop at all matters conservation, you do not have a good understanding of history.
> 
> So, if you want to surrender your rights...that is your right...but please refrain from implying that everyone else ought to be equally happy to do the same...


I am not ok with them entering your home to check your guns. At no time did I say that. What I am ok with is them entering your land if they see somebody they believe is hunting. That is during hunting season I might add. That is it. Nothing more nothing less. I have 33,000 acres here in NM. I own the land, not the game on it. I do not mind game wardens coming on my land checking hunters. And some good has come from them doing so. Also, I know my history well, thank you. I am not laying over for anybody. I am simply glad the game wardens are doing their job. I cannot patrol 33,000 acres all day, everyday during the many hunting seasons. I am glad they are there to help. SImple as that. Thanks for your comment. I guess as the old saying goes, we will just agree to disagree. Have a great day.


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

Huff/MO said:


> Every day I see articles in the paper about murders and robberies. Everybody wants this type of activity stopped too... Perhaps you owning weapons is enough reason to let the police come in your house whenever they want to make sure you're using your weapons legally? Probably should give them a copy of your car keys and email password too. If you're legal, what are you worried about?


Now this is EXACTLY what we are talking about....perfect answer !!!!!


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

TheWood!! said:


> I am not ok with them entering your home to check your guns. At no time did I say that. What I am ok with is them entering your land if they see somebody they believe is hunting. That is during hunting season I might add. That is it. Nothing more nothing less. I have 33,000 acres here in NM. I own the land, not the game on it. I do not mind game wardens coming on my land checking hunters. And some good has come from them doing so. Also, I know my history well, thank you. I am not laying over for anybody. I am simply glad the game wardens are doing their job. I cannot patrol 33,000 acres all day, everyday during the many hunting seasons. I am glad they are there to help. SImple as that. Thanks for your comment. I guess as the old saying goes, we will just agree to disagree. Have a great day.


No...don't be ok with them entering my land, please. Not your right to waive.


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## TheWood!! (Mar 27, 2011)

Rolo said:


> No...don't be ok with them entering my land, please. Not your right to waive.


Ok, you hard headed son....

It is PERFECTLY ok with me for them to enter MY land. I have no problem with that. 

Speaking of, I just got back from Wyoming. My family has some land up there also, just east of Glenrock. A lot of family in Casper. If your system ever comes about and CO's are no longer able to come onto private property, I think I will hunt Box Elder and Duncan ranches. They border ours, so if I know I won't get caught I might as well use that land for my own benefit. There are some good whitetail on Box Elder in the creek bottoms. Should be a great hunt.


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## Snakum (Oct 8, 2013)

A wildlife enforcement officer in NC can not only walk onto private land, he can enter your house without a warrant, too. They have a tough and dangerous job, and do the best they can with limited resources (avg only 2 officers on duty at any given time per county in NC). I for one, am very glad they check folks out. In NC we have a HUGE problem with trespassing and poaching. I had people trespassing, shooting rifles out of season, and spotlighting deer on my brother's property down south where I hunted, and I have already had issues on my new place up here in the western part of the state. It's frigging ridiculous. No respect all for the game or for other's property. I support them 110% because it would be 10x worse without them.

Oh, and OP ... the only reason they checked you is because someone called them and told them something about you/your party. Whether it was true/accurate or not, that is exactly what happened. That is the only reason they go out. There aren't enough of them to spot check anyone anywhere except sometimes on game lands on opening weekend. You were either up to something, or someone thought you were up to something, or you have an enemy whose just trying to jam you up. You can take that to the bank.


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## IL John (Oct 23, 2009)

They need no probable cause. Always close the gate make the sob's walk. I feel in northern il they harass hunters, they aren't looking out for us. We're guilty until proven innocent, or until our hunt is ruined


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## Snakum (Oct 8, 2013)

Double tap.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

TheWood!! said:


> If it is hunting season and he see's you dressed in camo carrying a weapon he probably knows you are hunting.


Once again though, he'd have no way to see me unless he's already on the property, which from everything I gather he can't do(or at least isn't supposed to do), unless he has reasonable cause. I haven't hunted my property in 2 weeks and I sure don't want him walking around it just in case I might be hunting, so he can check me out. Now if I parked my truck loaded with hunting gear at the property edge, then he might have a reason to come in. I don't though, for all the CPO knows I'm an anti hunter. This is all talk though, I've never had it happen and don't expect to, just bothers me that it's a possibility.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

TheWood!! said:


> Ok, you hard headed son....
> 
> It is PERFECTLY ok with me for them to enter MY land. I have no problem with that.
> 
> Speaking of, I just got back from Wyoming. My family has some land up there also, just east of Glenrock. A lot of family in Casper. If your system ever comes about and CO's are no longer able to come onto private property, I think I will hunt Box Elder and Duncan ranches. They border ours, so if I know I won't get caught I might as well use that land for my own benefit. There are some good whitetail on Box Elder in the creek bottoms. Should be a great hunt.


If a landowner wants them there, all they gotta do is call them and say "please patrol my property". It's that simple. Some of us just want to be left alone. If I was up to no good I'm sure they would have figured that out by now with their numerous fly overs in their plane. They do not need to step foot on my property thinking they'll catch a trespasser. If there is a trespasser then I'll let them know and they can come then.

Maybe I'm lucky I don't live in an area where poaching is overly common. I haven't had a trespasser since I took care of that problem 2 years ago. I do have a right to privacy!


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## RxMeg (May 25, 2013)

Huff/MO said:


> Every day I see articles in the paper about murders and robberies. Everybody wants this type of activity stopped too... Perhaps you owning weapons is enough reason to let the police come in your house whenever they want to make sure you're using your weapons legally? Probably should give them a copy of your car keys and email password too. If you're legal, what are you worried about?





TheWood!! said:


> Over-react much? Their job is to make sure those out hunting are doing it legally. If they cannot go onto private property to check to make sure those hunting there are legal, then what? I had a game warden open a gate on private property I was hunting and drive right up to me. He checked my license and my paperwork, said good luck and left. Two days before that we had some guys hunting on our property that did not have permission. Same game warden caught them and cited them for tresspassing. I am damn glad he was able to do so.
> 
> The big difference in your absurd comparison, is that I own my home and I own my guns. Police cannot come into my home and check my guns, because I own them. They do not. That is not so in the case of hunting. You may own the land, but you do not own the game on that land. It belongs to the state. Not hard to figure out really if you have half a brain cell. So, please, stop with the goofy analogies until you actually know what you are talking about.
> 
> We would have a crap load more tresspassing and poaching threads on here everyday if game wardens were not allowed to enter private property. Poachers would have a field day if they knew they could enter private land and not worry about game wardens. Use the brain God gave you for once.





Rolo said:


> You do understand that there are some State laws that purport to allow COs to enter your house without a warrant and check your guns don't you? Are you OK with this? The issue is the CO accessing property in potential violation of the owner's rights. It has nutt'n to do with the rights of the people who don't have a right to be there.
> 
> Personally, I don't really care if you are OK with it or not on your property...I do care if you are OK with it on my property, and think property owners should willingly lay over to the power of the State. That is the point. And if you think the willingness of the citizen to lay over for the government will conveniently stop at all matters conservation, you do not have a good understanding of history.
> 
> So, if you want to surrender your rights...that is your right...but please refrain from implying that everyone else ought to be equally happy to do the same...



Thank you guys for writing this so I don't have to. Some people don't understand other peoples perspectives. Only their own. Go figure. Seems like if he knew his history like he said he knows he'd know that the government has the power they have because they take it little by little. I call it incrementalism. Sickening. Probable cause should be mandatory for "all" LE to maintain the personal rights of the people that employ them.


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## Huff/MO (Dec 9, 2008)

TheWood!! said:


> Over-react much? Their job is to make sure those out hunting are doing it legally. If they cannot go onto private property to check to make sure those hunting there are legal, then what?


 We had huge poaching and trespassing problems at our farm. You how we dealt with them? We didn't wait for the GW to do it... We were proactive, we watched our property and called him when we needed him. He was out there tons of times and not one of them univted. He never had to dukes of hazard his way through a food plot at prime time. We worked with him. It made our farm better and his job easier. 



TheWood!! said:


> The big difference in your absurd comparison, is that I own my home and I own my guns. Police cannot come into my home and check my guns, because I own them. They do not. That is not so in the case of hunting. You may own the land, but you do not own the game on that land. It belongs to the state. Not hard to figure out really if you have half a brain cell. So, please, stop with the goofy analogies until you actually know what you are talking about.


Speaking of goofy analogies... you're saying since state owned wildlife (that I can't control) wanders on to my property, my other constitutional rights are null and void? What if a cop runs your plates when you pull in to 7-11? Since he sees that you have a CCW he wants to check you out. Using your theory, it's ok for him to search your car. You own the gun and car, but you don't own the 7-11 that he's protecting.


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## Huff/MO (Dec 9, 2008)

TheWood!! said:


> Ok, you hard headed son....
> 
> It is PERFECTLY ok with me for them to enter MY land. I have no problem with that.
> 
> Speaking of, I just got back from Wyoming. My family has some land up there also, just east of Glenrock. A lot of family in Casper. If your system ever comes about and CO's are no longer able to come onto private property, I think I will hunt Box Elder and Duncan ranches. They border ours, so if I know I won't get caught I might as well use that land for my own benefit. There are some good whitetail on Box Elder in the creek bottoms. Should be a great hunt.


So you're saying that we would all be victim to constant poaching and tresspassing if not for the almighty govt swooping in to save us? That's nice, they can provide your protection and your healthcare. While I do agree, that they have a roll in protecting the states wildlife and my property, I prefer to take a proactive roll myself and not be totally dependent on them. I don't need someone driving 1 mile down a field road to check Uncle Charlie at 5:00 A.M. as he climbs into the ladder stand he's hunted for 60 years. If Uncle Charlie finds someone in the stand, we'll let you know and you can come on out. If you want to know what we've killed, drop by around noon and we'll show you whats hanging in the barn. 

*I just want to note that I think GW's have a hard job and the vast majority of my interactions with them have been positive. However, those factors don't carry enough weight to make me willingly concede my god-given rights in the name of safety. I am aware of the laws/regulations and will follow them, doesn't mean I have to like em.


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## WIN.308 (Oct 21, 2012)

TheWood!! said:


> Ok, you hard headed son....
> 
> It is PERFECTLY ok with me for them to enter MY land. I have no problem with that.
> 
> Speaking of, I just got back from Wyoming. My family has some land up there also, just east of Glenrock. A lot of family in Casper. If your system ever comes about and CO's are no longer able to come onto private property, I think I will hunt Box Elder and Duncan ranches. They border ours, so if I know I won't get caught I might as well use that land for my own benefit. There are some good whitetail on Box Elder in the creek bottoms. Should be a great hunt.


You have you some nice bows there Wood!


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## bowparadise (Apr 21, 2010)

Game wardens can come on public or private land anytime the want to if they think u have a illegal animal that was poached or killed without tagging they can walk in your house and check your freezer if they want


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

TheWood!! said:


> Ok, you hard headed son....
> 
> It is PERFECTLY ok with me for them to enter MY land. I have no problem with that.


I'll take that as a compliment on this issue. :wink:

If you want to allow the Co onto your property, that's great, and your right to do so. It also seems reasonable based on what you say.

It is equally reasonable for another loan owner to not want an agent on their property for any reason. What's wrong with that?

You also misunderstand the 'Open Fields' doctrine in its entirety. You have no protections if you are trespassing. It matters not whether the CO is there with or without the consent of the LO.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

Krennen said:


> This thread is full of FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I bet 98% of you will be the first to whine and cry when someone poaches a deer off your property about "why wasn't the warden doing his job", but you want to cry because he is doing it. Put your big girl panties on, follow the laws, be polite and let them do their jobs so we can continue to enjoy our hobby.
> 
> I am sorry I wasted my time reading this post, I want my 18 pages of time back.


Someday maybe your nanny state mentality will force others to give you back your time. No one forced you to waste your time, but you are the first to whine and complain about it. How ironic.

How many times are you good with a "warden doing his job" personally? How many times are you good with being in a tree and having someone come through the woods ruining your hunt checking you over are you good with? Once a year, month or day? I mean if they are to do "their job" and stop people from taking game illegally then you should be good with when ever they get the inkling to do so. 

You must be British, read a history book. The only reason you have the freedom to speak your mind now is because people kept government from demanding your "papers" on a whim just because you didn't look right or say the right thing. Fear not it doesn't appear you'll have to wait long to understand it personally.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

bowparadise said:


> Game wardens can come on public or private land anytime the want to if they think u have a illegal animal that was poached or killed without tagging they can walk in your house and check your freezer if they want


And people have a right to redress, there is and for very good reason a separation of power and the courts are the great levelers. There must be cause and that is the issue here, not just be good with them "doing their job". Someone files a report of a crime the law investigates, if it leads them to you they have cause. There is no cause if the law just thinks you have broken the law because your doing the activity people do when laws are broken. 

People shop lift all the time, some of you would be good with being stopped and checked every time you leave the store because people shop lift. It's coming to that step by step thanks to well minded ignorant people.


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## skyleralan (Nov 2, 2010)

A CO should never be able to walk directly onto private property without cause. If they need to talk with me or someone on our property they can politely wait at my vehicle. If that is OK with you then I guess you don't want any rights at all in this DEMOCRATIC country.


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## hunt1up (Sep 4, 2009)

Huff/MO said:


> So you're saying that we would all be victim to constant poaching and tresspassing if not for the almighty govt swooping in to save us? That's nice, they can provide your protection and your healthcare. While I do agree, that they have a roll in protecting the states wildlife and my property, I prefer to take a proactive roll myself and not be totally dependent on them. I don't need someone driving 1 mile down a field road to check Uncle Charlie at 5:00 A.M. as he climbs into the ladder stand he's hunted for 60 years. If Uncle Charlie finds someone in the stand, we'll let you know and you can come on out. If you want to know what we've killed, drop by around noon and we'll show you whats hanging in the barn.
> 
> *I just want to note that I think GW's have a hard job and the vast majority of my interactions with them have been positive. However, those factors don't carry enough weight to make me willingly concede my god-given rights in the name of safety. I am aware of the laws/regulations and will follow them, doesn't mean I have to like em.


I like this post!


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## Coldone (Oct 12, 2009)

I didn't read this entire thread but I think I get the gist of it from this one page. Some of you have a grave (word used intentionally, no pun intended) misunderstanding of the U.S. Constitution. Your state cannot decide to weaken the U.S. Constitution. Your local laws can give you greater rights, but not weaken the U.S. Constitution. Just because someone is a CO acting in the purported realm of wildlife/hunting law enforcement, doesn't mean that you lose your rights. This is the biggest problem with the current state of our constitutional law- judges and people that misunderstand the constitution and look at it from the lens of the government, when it should be viewed from the private citizen. This doesn't mean if they have probable cause and a warrant through proper procedure they cannot come invade your privacy, but they better have one to do so. If you have a CO that comes into your house to look at your freezer, or are just out and about walking around your farm, they are breaking the law and trampling on your rights as a U.S. citizen that men and women are fighting and dying to protect on a daily basis. The idea that "you should be OK with it if you have nothing to hide" is flawed logic, for two reasons. We have the right to be left alone. And if no one defends their right to be left alone, we will eventually be subjected to constant shakedowns and intimidation in a police state. If you're fine with those things, please leave my country and go seek citizenship in China or Russia, and on your way out don't talk about this great country or what it stands for.


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## swilk (Sep 14, 2005)

I would be very interested in reading some of the actual state code that folks are claiming exists that allows CO's to circumvent the constitution and perform what would normally be seen as illegal search and seizures. 

No LEO is above the constitution. None.


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## cannon14 (Oct 5, 2006)

Very, very well said Coldone...how is it that as hunters who should be freedoms biggest defenders are the ones that would allow such an I fringment of the 8th amendment?


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## jakeeib (Jan 8, 2008)

Indiana Law

"if the director or conservation officer has good reason to believe that
the director or conservation officer will secure evidence of a
violation"

I take this to mean needing cause, not to just randomally check,

IC 14-22-39-3
Searches of effects; entry onto property
Sec. 3. (a) As used in this section, "public or private property"
does not include dwellings.
(b) The director and conservation officers may:
(1) search a boat, a conveyance, a vehicle, an automobile, a fish
box, a fish basket, a game bag, a game coat, or other receptacle
in which game may be carried; and
(2) enter into or upon private or public property for the
purposes of subdivision (1) or for the purpose of patrolling or
investigating;
if the director or conservation officer has good reason to believe that
the director or conservation officer will secure evidence of a
violation of this article or a law for the propagation or protection of
fish, frogs, mussels, game, furbearing mammals, or birds.
As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.15.


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## IAWoodsman (Nov 30, 2012)

Wow..this threads all over the place. Game wardens are the least of my worries in terms of freedom and constitutional rights. 

I think I'd pay a little more attention to what's going on at most of our state capitals and especially in the socialist mad house of Washington. Those people are doing everything they can to control every aspect of our lives. When and how you can do what, what and how much you can have of something, all this political correctness bull****...it doesn't stop. And the gun issue is the worst..these people are so completely ignorant or arrogant (I'm not sure which), that they think not being able to protect yourself is a good idea. They think being defenseless is the best defense...what?!? 

I could care less about a CO wanting to check my license when my country is turning into exactly what it was designed to prevent.


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## Peewee31 (Sep 20, 2006)

Kb83 said:


> This is how it should be. However it isnt. Atleast here. They can walk right onto your property for no reason other than they saw a orange hat in a treestand or saw you in camo enter the woods. They do not need probable cause.
> 
> sent from my LG Escape.


That's a myth that had been sold to the CO themselves as we'll as the public here in MS. I'll tell y'all a quick story from Warren County, MS that occurred last year. This is through second hand, from the county prosecutor which I'm friends with and work with his wife and one of the attorneys involved which is about like a brother to me. 

Young fellow gets busted by our local CO (Tracey) for baiting. Baiting is illegal here but legal in LA, we live on the border and many hunt both states. We. This young fellow he busted has a relative that's a pretty powerful politician. He also has several attorneys in the family. One calls the judge (friend) and he recused himself. This is how the landed in Bert's lap (county prosecutor). Bert after doing some research said CO officer did not have probable cause to enter the property. CO says he doesn't need probable cause. Bert contacts AG for an opinion. After several days of searching the opinion was called in to Bert as well as the other interested parties. Bert was correct, no probable cause case dismissed, CO gets ticked and argues he is taking away his rights to do his job, etc. 

I am friends with numerous CO thought the state of MS that argued with me and basically said I was full of crap. I was telling the attorney involved at a later time on a run. He gave me some valuable advice. He said peewee, the only rights you have are the ones you are wiiling to fight for. 

Therefor from my understanding, you folks keep believing the myth that CO have more power than any other state law enforcement.


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## Rick Hodges (Nov 3, 2008)

No State can over rule the US Constitution. The rules of search and seizure are the same for all LEO's. Michigan's constitution says that narcotics, firearms, explosives seized outside the home can never be excluded from a criminal trial. It doesn't matter what it says as the US Constitution is supreme. If it was seized illegally it cannot be used.
There is a lot of confusion about what may and may not be searched. The constitution does not ban warrantless searches of all private property. It says secure in your person and homes. Generally speaking a search warrant is needed to search, but there are numerous exceptions....NONE OF THEM are exclusive to game wardens or CO's. The laws of the land apply to all law enforcement officers in every state.


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## Krennen (Oct 5, 2011)

IAWoodsman said:


> Wow..this threads all over the place. Game wardens are the least of my worries in terms of freedom and constitutional rights.
> 
> I think I'd pay a little more attention to what's going on at most of our state capitals and especially in the socialist mad house of Washington. Those people are doing everything they can to control every aspect of our lives. When and how you can do what, what and how much you can have of something, all this political correctness bull****...it doesn't stop. And the gun issue is the worst..these people are so completely ignorant or arrogant (I'm not sure which), that they think not being able to protect yourself is a good idea. They think being defenseless is the best defense...what?!?
> 
> I could care less about a CO wanting to check my license when my country is turning into exactly what it was designed to prevent.


AMEN!!!!!!!!:thumbs_up


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## FiremanJeff (Oct 22, 2009)

Mr. Man said:


> Lol, how old are you, 15? Yes, it's legal. Yes, it's their job. Quit crying.


Best possible answer. Thanks, Mr. Man. Folks here need a dose of common sense administered, on occasion!


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## WildmanWilson (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm not a law breaker. I still do not want anyone to have absolute power to do as they please. This kind of power corrupts and causes too many problems. A mans property is his and as such you are deserving of certain rights. We should have checks and balances with anyone in a position of power.


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## dempsy1 (May 29, 2012)

Skeptic said:


> You are wrong.


I would agree I don't know for sure but to just go onto private land is not legal, but if they can see you then I assume they have the right to come check, but not to just stroll around on private property.


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## Richard932 (Jul 6, 2010)

I've never been stopped or checked by a game warden while hunting. But I get checked at least 3 times a year while I'm fishing. But I'd be pissed if they walked up to a tree I was in and checked. SHHHH I'M HUNTING


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## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

In the woods with a bow in your hands is probable cause. Just doing what we pay them to do. They must have a reason or maybe someone called them.


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