# Carbon Impact Super Club spine



## Sosius (Feb 5, 2014)

Hello All,

Well, I think my cheapest arrows are now my best arrows, at least for me. CI SC 20/30s seem to be perfectly spined for my bow and abilities. Arrows flying straight and grouping well. 

They are not the straightest arrows. 2 of the 15 I bought are clearly not straight, and another 2 seem slightly off. After I bust and/or lose these, I'll probably want to upgrade. 

Can anyone tell what the spine is for these? I am using the standard vanes and brass points. Carbon cut to 28". 

Thanks!


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

The last SC 20/30's that I ran trough the spine tester were 710 spine, an upgrade would be CI Ultra Fast for a few dollars more. dchans sticky on the top of page has a CI spine chart listed for reference, see last post.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

It is really weird that CI doesn't put this info on it's page:

via dchan:



> Sizes and uncut length
> 
> Super Club 5/15 (1500 spine) - 27 3/4"
> Super Club 10/20 (1200 spine) - 28 3/4"
> ...


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showt...508&highlight=super+club+spine#post1070298508

The arrows are very useful and we use them by the gross at our club, so we do recommend them for a lot of applications. However, the _tolerances_ are not listed, which is a hint. Both the spine tolerance and the straightness are pretty loose. CI will take back arrows that are 1/10 of an inch out of true, or 0.1". At one point Jennifer told me that the standard was:



> hank you for your email on our Super Club arrows. The info on the Super
> Club is on page 11 of our catalog on line. The straightness is .006 +/-
> with a weight grain difference of 8 grain +/-. All arrows are recheck for
> weight, straightness and spine on every batch and we stand behind all of
> our products.


However SC arrows are not anywhere near that straight, so that might have been a typo on her part. I tested dozen of mine and found that they got a max. Total Indicated Range of deflection of .032" (or +/- .016.), and I've seen a number of them that are way more bent than that. 

I don't know what the tolerances really are given the conflicting information I have at hand.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

I still have a set i use for blank bale practice - they are great arrows for the price. Its been posted alot that the 20/30 are supposed to 820 spine but im not surprised that w8lon's spine tester showed it in the 700s


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Warbow said:


> It is really weird that CI doesn't put this info on it's page:


Yes, it's one of my frustrations. That and the uncut shaft length.


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## Sosius (Feb 5, 2014)

Dacer said:


> I still have a set i use for blank bale practice - they are great arrows for the price. Its been posted alot that the 20/30 are supposed to 820 spine but im not surprised that w8lon's spine tester showed it in the 700s


Interesting. I would guess that this batch is in the 800s. My previous arrows were ACG 720s cut to 28.25 and way too stiff.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Sosius said:


> Interesting. I would guess that this batch is in the 800s. My previous arrows were ACG 720s cut to 28.25 and way too stiff.


I say that because I had 28" shafts and the bare shafts didn't group with the fletched until my draw weight was around 36-37. Part of it is the low point weight option they have with them ( 80 gr ) - but I'd expect an 820 shaft to tune much closer around 32-34.


So W8lons measure of 710 seems legit to me.


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## wags2 (Jan 26, 2009)

I've been looking at these arrows for my daughter, she is shooting 16#'s @ 18 inch draw. It has proven frustrating to find some arrows that will fly correctly and have been looking at these. I'm assuming the 5-15 spine will be where we need to start but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## Sosius (Feb 5, 2014)

Dacer said:


> I say that because I had 28" shafts and the bare shafts didn't group with the fletched until my draw weight was around 36-37. Part of it is the low point weight option they have with them ( 80 gr ) - but I'd expect an 820 shaft to tune much closer around 32-34.
> 
> 
> So W8lons measure of 710 seems legit to me.


Hmm. Interesting. Now I'm tempted to cut the vanes off a couple and do some bare shafting.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

I would think that an indicator that the SC's could possibly be either 710 or 820's is the spine chart, UltraFast and SC's shown as comparison to 20/30's show both spines in the higher end arrow. As shafts are tested before labeling some meet the grade others do not.

The RamQC spine tester is a borrowed unit from a friend, I have found it to be an invaluable tool for testing spine, straightness, and indexing nocks to the spline of the shaft. Even with high end shafts there is usually a cull in every dozen and surprisingly some low end bargain shafts test better. I have tested shafts with as much as forty thousands variance in spine through a rotation which makes nock indexing critical.

The CI chart: http://www.carbonimpact.com/11_super_club_carbon_arrows.php


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

w8lon said:


> I would think that an indicator that the SC's could possibly be either 710 or 820's is the spine chart, UltraFast and SC's shown as comparison to 20/30's show both spines in the higher end arrow. As shafts are tested before labeling some meet the grade others do not.


I don't know if it has ever been conclusively answered whether SC's are culls. Some folks have claimed the SCs are just untested. CI told me "All arrows are recheck for weight, straightness and spine on every batch" but that doesn't really answer the question. "Every batch" could mean *sample* arrows from the batch are tested, as opposed to all individual arrows. And that statement still leaves open the possibility that the SC's are culls because culls are still "tested", and rejected for the higher spec lines. 

I don't know what would be "better," culls, or untested (or samples tested only). With untested arrows you'll get bell curve of a random distribution, and you could wind up with some pretty straight arrows mixed in there. But with culls, you'll never get a straight arrow or an arrow that is right on the money for spine because the culls are all of the arrows that *don't* meet that spec. 

So, CI SC's. We depend on them at our club big time because of the value they represent, but there are still some questions I'd love to know the answers to.

If you do test some SC's for spine, can you test the full set, and give the full range of measurements. I'm curious as to how tight the tolerances are in you batch. My spine tester only goes to .9" of deflection, so I can't even test some of our kid arrows...


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

If you do test some SC's for spine, can you test the full set, and give the full range of measurements. I'm curious as to how tight the tolerances are in you batch. My spine tester only goes to .9" of deflection, so I can't even test some of our kid arrows...[/QUOTE]

Make up a weight that is half weight and double the measurement, this will get you to 1.800 spine. The borrowed tester I use was purchase at an archery shop liquidation auction, the weight sold to another bidder in a boxed lot. I made the two weights out of 2" steel bar stock cut to length using conversion charts then tested against an X7 shaft to suit.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

w8lon said:


> Make up a weight that is half weight and double the measurement, this will get you to 1.800 spine. The borrowed tester I use was purchase at an archery shop liquidation auction, the weight sold to another bidder in a boxed lot. I made the two weights out of 2" steel bar stock cut to length using conversion charts then tested against an X7 shaft to suit.


Interesting. I don't know much about beam deflection equations, so it never occurred to me to do that.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Hmm. Time to build a spine tester.

In Answer to the question about 16#' 18" DW

In a super club you will need 5/15's left close to full length to start. You may still spine stiff but it will be closer.

Alloy 1214's would be better or if you are willing to spend the money and really want carbons, CX Medallion XR's at 2000 spine will get you in there. All will be somewhat longer than 20" to get them to tune.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

wags2 said:


> I've been looking at these arrows for my daughter, she is shooting 16#'s @ 18 inch draw. It has proven frustrating to find some arrows that will fly correctly and have been looking at these. I'm assuming the 5-15 spine will be where we need to start but any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


Currently, there is only one arrow that will have a chance to spine correctly from that setup, and it's not a carbon arrow. It's the 1214 aluminum (Jazz or Tribute). That's it. They are about 2500 spine. Even the weakest carbon is still 2000 spine, and you need at least 22 lbs. to push that 2000 spine correctly.

But don't worry. 1214's are more than capable even for distance outdoors. My daughter was shooting them at 50 meters from a 22 lb. bow, and holding red most days.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Hmm. Time to build a spine tester.


I can't believe you haven't done this already! ha, ha.

In fact, I'm surprised more coaches and serious enthusiasts don't have their own spine tester. It's such a useful tool.


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## wags2 (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks john,

We have some 1214's I'll see what we can do with them.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow said:


> I don't know if it has ever been conclusively answered whether SC's are culls. Some folks have claimed the SCs are just untested. CI told me "All arrows are recheck for weight, straightness and spine on every batch" but that doesn't really answer the question. "Every batch" could mean *sample* arrows from the batch are tested, as opposed to all individual arrows. And that statement still leaves open the possibility that the SC's are culls because culls are still "tested", and rejected for the higher spec lines.
> 
> I don't know what would be "better," culls, or untested (or samples tested only). With untested arrows you'll get bell curve of a random distribution, and you could wind up with some pretty straight arrows mixed in there. But with culls, you'll never get a straight arrow or an arrow that is right on the money for spine because the culls are all of the arrows that *don't* meet that spec.
> 
> ...


I think this falls under the "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" category.  

No other arrow can do what the SC's can do, at that price. Not even close. We should all be thankful we have that option for our students and newer archers who need to reach distances outdoors.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I think this falls under the "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" category.
> 
> No other arrow can do what the SC's can do, at that price. Not even close. We should all be thankful we have that option for our students and newer archers who need to reach distances outdoors.


I do think they represent a good value. But, that being said, for people coming out of aluminum arrows into carbon they represent a very different animal. No aluminum arrow I can think of has the kind of wide tolerances that the CI SCs have, so people should know up front that they are getting into something different than they are used to.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Anyone with any sense should know better than to expect tight tolerances on an arrow that light, that skinny, and that costs that little. That's my .02


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Anyone with any sense should know better than to expect tight tolerances on an arrow that light, that skinny, and that costs that little. That's my .02


I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Even the inexpensive Easton aluminum arrows have higher tolerances than CI Super Clubs. It isn't intuitive that carbons in the same or similar price points should have lower tolerances. People who are familiar with carbons would know that, but regular folks would have no reason to think that. "Sense" is often something that requires experience. It is unfair to expect that of people who don't have experience with both carbons and aluminum. And I think many people would think of carbon arrows as high tech and assume that meant that carbons would therefore have tighter specs than old tech aluminum in the same or similar price categories.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow, the inexpensive aluminum arrows cannot do what the CI SC's can do. 

But no, there is no accounting for "common sense." you have that right.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

my 20/30s cut to 28", pins/nock, and the supplied 80gn point come in at just under 260 grains - thats a pretty light arrow for a ~.820 spine.


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