# Coach says don't buy Beiter Plunger :(



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

I'm considering ignoring him. I'd like to buy one plunger and not wind up getting another later.

So, I'm working on getting my GM rig together and getting a "real" plunger to replace the sticky $13 dollar Cartel that came with it. The L4 coach I'm seeing (sounds like girlfriend, but I can't really call him "my" coach) said to skip the Beiter and go with a Shib DX.

From what I've read, the Shib can give me the same results but the Beiter may get me their more easily and last longer.

So, two questions:

1) Is the micrometer on the Beiter only for spring tension or does it also have one for positioning the plunger button?

2) The plunger is funky about length and only has 3mm of travel for any given set up. It comes in two lengths with two thickness of nut for adjusting the plunger button "windage." Is there any reason you couldn't just put an ordinary 5/16 nut and use a longer plunger? Naturally, if I buy a Beiter I'll try to get the right length but I'm confused about the seemingly complicated way they make the different lengths and why...

Ok, 3) Is their any reason not to get a Beiter other than cost an the fixed lengths issue?


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## Jimmy Sweden (Oct 24, 2005)

Id say go with the shibya or the cavalier master plunger, becuse relly what do you need a beiter for? sure its nice but id rather save that money and buy somthing that WILL make a diffrense, becuse the beiter WONT, 

well thats just me,


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

The ease of adjustment of the Beiter alone makes it my plunger of choice.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

You can use the 5/16" nut. I did a variation on that and made a small threaded spacer out of delrin, tapped for 5/16 x 24 threads, threaded it onto the plunger, and ran it down until it hit the collar. 

One of the things to be aware of is the fact that the plunger has a change in thread diameter. The part that goes into the riser is 5/16x24, but the part that both the locking collar and spring tension adjuster move on is another, bigger thread (unsure of which right now, plunger not with me). That is why the plunger has all those variations on the body length and the 2 locking collar sizes. 

As long as you follow the (somewhat) complicated instructions, you should be OK. You could also contact Friedhelm @ K1 archery, he should have that sorted out pretty well too. 

The plunger is nice, really nice. Does it provide a better tune than a DX or a Master? No. What it does do is lighten your wallet, color coordinate better, and provide a very repeatable, recordable setting when you get your tune "finalized." They do last a long time, and those tips ought to last a couple of years apiece. I got six of the same ones, so I should be set for a long time. Plus, cleaning the plunger, as long as you have the setting recorded, you just disassemble, wipe clean, reassemble to previous setting, tune for confirmation and you're done.

I did find that the springs seemed to be pretty consistent. I bareshafted my bow using the same plunger and 3 different medium springs, and the bareshaft tune variation was imperceptible, at least to my skill level.


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## ecc (Nov 20, 2002)

if you're on a budget and the extra hundred(?) is put into better arrows i can accept it and even call it wise.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> getting a "real" plunger to replace the sticky $13 dollar Cartel that came with it


Two of those Cartel plungers (although they weren't "sticky") helped put me on the last Olympic team. I had one on each of my bows, and all of my personal best scores were shot using "cheap" Cartel plungers.

Yea, imagine that.

But these days, I always recommend the Shibuya DX or Beiter to those who ask. The Cartels are fine if you get good ones and keep them clean, but they only last a few years and then you have to replace them.

John.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

I used to use a Shibuya DX and now use a Beiter. Both are good high quality plungers, but everything about tuning is so much quicker and easier with the Beiter. 

Your questions:
1) The collar for positioning the plunger does not have any micrometer markings. 

2) You can go to the Beiter website, look up the technical data on the plunger, then measure your riser to pick the size most likely to fit.

3) Other than cost and getting the right length, the only reason to not get a Beiter is if you hate convenience, quality, and precision.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Two of those Cartel plungers (although they weren't "sticky") helped put me on the last Olympic team. I had one on each of my bows, and all of my personal best scores were shot using "cheap" Cartel plungers.
> 
> Yea, imagine that.


What?

Always good to be reminded of what really counts, the archer (well, and some quality arrows).

So it seems the primary reason one might elect not to get a Beiter is money that might be prioritized to better use. So it looks like as long as one is buying the Beiter for the quality and ease of use rather than fantasies of improved scores then it is a sound choice...

Of course, I also don't want to get stuff that is way fancier than my skill requires. I don't want to look like a total dufus. But I also don't want to buy stuff twice when I could just buy the right thing once


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

if you can afford it just get the beiter...you will not regret it...PS...i have 5...


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

I've only had experience with 4 brands of plungers. Cartel, Shibuya, Arc Systeme and Beiter. Of the 4, the Beiter had the smoothest feeling spring. Second would be the Arc Systeme's. Couldn't tell the difference between the Shibuya and the Cartel's springs. Of course, quality wise as far as the body was concerned, the Shibuya beat the Cartel.


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

Warbow said:


> I'm considering ignoring him. I'd like to buy one plunger and not wind up getting another later.
> 
> So, I'm working on getting my GM rig together and getting a "real" plunger to replace the sticky $13 dollar Cartel that came with it. The L4 coach I'm seeing (sounds like girlfriend, but I can't really call him "my" coach) said to skip the Beiter and go with a Shib DX.
> 
> ...



Answer to Question 1. The Barrel on the Beiter plunger adjusts spring tension only. 3 springs with extras of each is supplied with the plunger; soft, medium and strong. (Coil Thickness) 


Answer 2. The body of the Beiter has 2 OD's. The 5/16" X 24 which screws into the riser and a 3/8"X 24. The larger diameter provides threads for the barrel and the locking collar nut.

There are also different length plunger pins (different colors) and N=6 of 1 color (and length) are shipped with the plunger.

To order the correct plunger which means the correct length arrangement of the two plunger body O.D.'s. One needs to measure the correct distance from center shot position of the plunger to the back side of the riser (opposite sight window side) including the thickness of any bolt on rest.

You can go to the Beiter web Sight and print off measurement dimensions, from which as you has indicated you select the correct body length value which lies within the 3mm adjustment.

I have found on both the Aero-Tec and the Inno risers equipped with Cavalier Free Flight Elite rest that the Beiter Plunger choices available from Lancaster 
Will NOT bolt up without counter boring the rest slot to accommodate the larger 3/8" diameter on the plunger body.

I worked with our friends at Lancaster over a month or so period changing plunger tip lengths to get the long body to work. These results were futile and I was unable to get Lancaster to order the correct body length from the factory. Folks at LA were convinced that the problem could be fixed by longer plungers. It can not.

I was unable to convince them of this and in stead invested in a small drill press and a 3/8" end mill which I used to counter bore the rest slot.

Answer 3. The plunger is useless unless the correct body length is used (without modifications). The Beiter is definitely worth the money. The LARGER diameter of the springs used in the Beiter provide a more linear response over a longer distance than does a plunger with a smaller diameter spring. I am very pleased with the tuning ability. What I mean by that is that when your set us is reasonably matched you should be able to achieve a weak spine reaction when the plunger barrel is set weak and a stiff reaction when the barrel is adjusted stiff using the same spring.

I have not been able to accomplish this type of tune with other plungers in the price range of the Beiter.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Greg Bouras said:


> ...
> I have not been able to accomplish this type of tune with *other plungers in the price range of the Beiter*.


Greg, I don't recall any other plunger in that price range. :wink:


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

I've been using a Cartel for awhile...works fine so far


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

Progen said:


> Greg, I don't recall any other plunger in that price range. :wink:



Anyone who would spend $75.00 for a plunger would probably consider spending $100.00. Just trying to be kind without naming names.


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

If your shooting well enough to notice the difference then its money well spent. I have a cartel tripple that does nicely. The only plus point of a click adjustable is if you are going to shoot two types of arrow of the bow.Then you can change the tension to match the different arrow by a set number of clicks.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

jerrytee said:


> If your shooting well enough to notice the difference then its money well spent. I have a cartel tripple that does nicely. The only plus point of a click adjustable is if you are going to shoot two types of arrow of the bow.Then you can change the tension to match the different arrow by a set number of clicks.


my thoughts also. I only shoot 1 type of arrow, nothing changes. My Cartel triple does the job well. I can't justify in my mind paying 100 bucks for a plunger.


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## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

Warbow said:


> I'm considering ignoring him. I'd like to buy one plunger and not wind up getting another later.


That is a very good plan, the ignoring the very poor advice, that is 



Warbow said:


> 1) Is the micrometer on the Beiter only for spring tension or does it also have one for positioning the plunger button?


The nut is for adjusting center shot and the barrel is for adjusting spring tension.



Warbow said:


> 2) The plunger is funky about length and only has 3mm of travel for any given set up. It comes in two lengths with two thickness of nut for adjusting the plunger button "windage." Is there any reason you couldn't just put an ordinary 5/16 nut and use a longer plunger? Naturally, if I buy a Beiter I'll try to get the right length but I'm confused about the seemingly complicated way they make the different lengths and why...


See link below.



Warbow said:


> Ok, 3) Is their any reason not to get a Beiter other than cost an the fixed lengths issue?


No and cost is not an issue either. It's only $100.


I have never understood this bias in archery to buy crap then upgrade if your scores warrant it. Buy the best you can afford and take it out of the equation. Who cares if someone made it to the Olympics shooting some cheap knock off. Most of the time those parts in those cheapos had been replaced at some point with quality Beiter parts to make them work.

Beiter buttons have two different diameter threads on them in most cases. One is the 5/16-24 or M8 to screw into the riser and the other is for their collar (M10).

Here's a link that shows all the details of the Beiter and how to fit, adjust and tweak them. You won't find this kind of information with any of the other plunger buttons on the market and is worth every penny in points over the life time of your archery play.

http://www.wernerbeiter.com/en/informations/datasheets/Plunger_GB.pdf

Cheers,
Pete


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

I had two Cartel buttons with Beiter tips (I needed the extra reach with my skinny carbons) and sold them. One of them stuck (the teflon/plastic sleeve tended to slide out), and the other was fine. 

Currently, I have a used Spigarelli click and an old W&W I bought on close-out. 

Due to laziness, I had two buttons, one tuned for my indoor setup, and the other for the outdoor arrows. If adjustment between two setups is the problem, this solves it as the two buttons together cost about half the price of a Beiter. Seasonal adjustments are pretty small, so it's quick and easy.

At one shoot, I wondered why I couldn't buy a group, then realized I had the wrong Cartel button on the bow. I now leave the button on the bow in the case and the two are obviously different, so that shouldn't happen again. If you get two of the same button, mark your "innie" and your "outie".


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I don't want to look like a total dufus.


That should be the last thing anyone worries about Warbow. Your scores should speak for you. Nothing else. 



> Who cares if someone made it to the Olympics shooting some cheap knock off.


Well Pete, me for one. $100 is still a lot of money to some of us  Especially when you're raising 3 kids these days and they need things too. 

Sure, there are two schools of thought and both are correct: 1) buy the best and get it over with, or 2) buy the best you can afford, especially if it has already been proven that a less expensive product will not have an effect on your performance.

If you have money to burn, then #1 is certainly the way to go. However, if you are like the rest of us, then figuring out what's really important to spend money on and what is not is probably the best way to get where you want to go.

If I had to stick with #1, I never would have realized my dream to make an Olympic team. But with some shrewd analysis and careful (and fortunate in some cases) spending, I was able to put together two competitive setups.

Here are some examples of "sub-par" gear that I used in '04 to shoot a personal best 167 18-arrow match at Gold Cup, finished the year ranked 4th in the U.S., and earn a trip to Athens at the Olympic trials...

Cartel tabs (cavalier knock-offs with cordovan faces) $12 ea.
Cartel Plungers (beiter knock-offs) - $12 ea.
Cartel bow stands (yea, the heavy ones you have to screw the legs into.) - $8
Home-made brass counterweights - $2-3 ea.
Used ACE 34" stabilizers - $40 ea. (ebay)
K&K and Flipper II arrow rests - $8 or less ea.
SKY Carbon Jack limbs - $200/pair ea. direct from Ann Hoyt

USED ACE arrows (a total of 16 arrows from two individiuals, with the labels worn off from use) - $200 total.

USED Axis risers (from Ebay and AT Classifieds) - $525 for both.

Simmons spotting scope -$25 off Ebay.

Cheap Bohning nylon quiver - $20 

And the list goes on. That's all I can remember off the top of my head.

So, I would encorage folks to consider this when deciding what the next most important piece of equipment is to buy - or replace.

I know most of you already know this stuff, but it doesn't hurt to remind folks from time to time that you don't buy scores, you earn them through hard work.

John.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John -



> I know most of you already know this stuff, but it doesn't hurt to remind folks from time to time that you don't buy scores, you earn them through hard work.


As usual, *THANK YOU* for bringing a rational, common sense approach back into the game. 

Hummm, I still have this old Radian riser with C+ limbs that seems to do pretty well for itself .

Viper1 out.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> I know most of you already know this stuff, but it doesn't hurt to remind folks from time to time that you don't buy scores, you earn them through hard work.
> 
> John.


A friend of mine who owns an archery store disagrees with you. He says that to be good you have to spend at least $150 a week....

-Andrew


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## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

While your trek to the Olympics was a very inspiring one John, there are thousands of people who have had exactly the opposite experience with used and/or sub par equipment issues. Most of them don't even know why they had such a terrible time with archery and simply left the sport.

If your goal is to simply shoot arrows for the fun of it, then that route can be quite enjoyable and cost effective. If you'd like to be even remotely competitive, even with just yourself, then it's not the right way to look at it.

My story, while just an excuse now, still naggs at me on a regular basis. 

In 2004 I bought 9 old used ACE's while following advice like John and Viper1. At the only qualifer I could go to that year I ended up having to aim off with one of them in the 5 ring every time to keep it near the middle. I forgot a few times in the heat of the momement and missed getting my 600 and going to the trials by 9 points. The idea that it's not the equipment it's the shooter, overcame common sense.

I missed the 2007 world indoor team by only 4 points in spite of some other rather dastardly issues, because I was too cheap to buy a new set of arrows as I was shooting 3 year old used X10's that later were found not to be so true anymore. Again, it's only indoor, it's not the equipment, it's the nut behind the bow, right?

I missed the cut at this years Olympic Trials due to being cheap (well and a bit stupid too  ). I missed shooting an arrow on the second to last end in the excitement of the momement. I finally had a good one with 5 arrows in a 2" circle. With my cheap scope I thought there were 6 in there for a 57 or 58. I had always shot target tournaments with a regular quiver, but due to having a hole in my old one, I simply switched to a field quiver for the trials. I neglected to look back in my quiver to see how many arrows I had left that end. Using unfamiliar equipment because I was cheap, not seeing one that really counted because I was being cheap I can never get back.

I missed USAT both the last two years by one position. In 2006, one point at any of 3 different tournaments would have made the difference while using 3 year old arrows.

My point is that archery is the least expensive equipment intensive sport in the world. To have all the very best equipment money can buy, even two sets is 1/2 the cost of a single dirt bike, atv or snowmobile. I don't work in the archery industry. I'm not some rich guy who can afford what ever I want. I also have a family of 5 with one in college. I have nothing to gain by suggesting folks spend money on their gear.

It just pains me to see this type of advice when the devil actually is in the finer details. I'm not bemoaning my last two years as they were as cool as anything I've ever done. Yet there's that nagging in the back of the mind that rings clear and true on a regular basis ....

what if?

Pete


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Interesting perspectives from 2 very experienced, good shooters.

What would YOU like to do with your money? If you want a trick piece of equipment that in all likelihood will not need replacing for years, and you have the cash, go for it. Your coach can advise how he feels, but if you want it, go get it. It will be, if nothing else, an excuse-remover. No more blaming the plunger for bad shots. 

But, if you're on a budget and/or restrictions from the 'financial officer,' then certainly any of the lower priced plungers will take you as far as you dare. Rick didn't shoot 1350something with a beiter, so it can be done.


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## K31Scout (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh John, You forgot your ACE (Hardware) aperture ring of which I have made a few thanks to you. I chuckle looking through Lancaster's catalogue when I see there is an aperture sight selling for close to $100. 

The plunger might be a different story though. I would own a Beiter if I thought the cheap one was causing rotten scores and if maintenance couldn't fix a sticking problem.

Nothing against Beiter except the cost and it's not made in the states.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

How about :-

Buy top end gear when you can afford it OR,

when YOU feel that you need it.

Other than that, soldier on with what you have,

and stop wasting precious forum space asking questions about what YOU'd like to have.

:wink:


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

K31Scout said:


> Oh John, You forgot your ACE (Hardware) aperture ring of which I have made a few thanks to you. I chuckle looking through Lancaster's catalogue when I see there is an aperture sight selling for close to $100.


Hmm...I'm gonna have to search the forum for that one 

Great and sometimes inspiring posts, BTW. Thanks for the differing and informative perspectives.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> there are thousands of people who have had exactly the opposite experience with used and/or sub par equipment issues. Most of them don't even know why they had such a terrible time with archery and simply left the sport.


Pete, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you there. If they left the sport, it wasn't because of equipment issues. Just the opposite in fact, is usually the case. Too often I see the vast majority think they can buy better scores instead of work for them, and then once the reality hits them that they cannot, then they leave the sport. This is especially true with younger archers. How many JOAD kids have I seen talk their parents into the latest and greatest, only to quit once they get it. That will sound very familiar to a lot of folks.

The archery companies would have us believe that our present gear, or less than the "top of the line" isn't adequate. They do a great job of promoting stuff that isn't any better than what was used 20 years ago. And folks fall for it in droves... 



> If your goal is to simply shoot arrows for the fun of it, then that route can be quite enjoyable and cost effective. If you'd like to be even remotely competitive, even with just yourself, then it's not the right way to look at it.


Again, I think we see this issue from completely different perspectives. I think I have proven that you can be much more than "remotely competitive" with equipment that even a reasonably new JOAD student would not be satisfied with.

Pete, I have a lot of respect for you. And don't want to get personal, but I cannot help but point out your own words...

You wrote: 



> It just pains me to see this type of advice when the devil actually is in the finer details.


However you also said:



> I forgot a few times in the heat of the momement





> I missed shooting an arrow on the second to last end in the excitement of the momement.


Mistakes are made by archers every single day who have the finest equipment money can buy. The details, as it turns out, are actually in the archer's actions I would argue, not the equipment. 

In fact, in 2004, I never once felt like I was giving anything up to anyone else on the field when it came to equipment. That's because I had repeatedly proven to myself in training that the gear I used was capable of shooting 330-340's over and over again. By the time I left for the Texas shootout, I knew that it was all on me and the equipment was up to the task even though I had paid a fraction for it of what others on the field had.

One last comment on this point... I did eventually get "better" gear (read-more expensive). Not only did it not help me shoot better scores, I think it had a detrimental effect on my performances that followed. After months of understanding what the equipment I owned could do for me, I "upgraded" to Beiter plungers and new arrows. However, I never equaled the scores I shot with all that old used-up equipment after that.



> Oh John, You forgot your ACE (Hardware) aperture ring of which I have made a few thanks to you. I chuckle looking through Lancaster's catalogue when I see there is an aperture sight selling for close to $100.


That's true. After one indoor event, I discovered that I could build an aperture for $3 that was better -FOR ME- than any commercially available aperture on the market. Key words - better for me -

And I never said those Cartel plungers were bad. I would have figured that out very quickly. What I learned just as quickly however is that they were capable of delivering 330's on a regular basis, so I stuck with them.

Just as Pete is sick of hearing this kind of advice, I am equally sick of seeing folks blame their equipment for letting them down. I see it entirely too often. I think the best approach in the long run is probably something like a piece of each of our experiences...

John.


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Two great points of view (thanks guys:thumbs_up).

My simple take on it is *IF* it is not a financial hardship _*AND*_ you are at the level where you fully understand the piece of equipment in question, there is no reason NOT to by the premium item. Else wise stick within what your budget allows.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Pete -

Also with all due respect (and I'm not kidding about that), you recounted several instances and had a similar problem with a riser a few years back, IIRC. Failure to fully test out and know if your equipment is faulty or not before a major match is part of the shooters responsibility, no one elses. If you knew that the arrows in your quiver had issues, or a riser, pair of limbs, tab, etc, it's YOUR responsibility to correct the problem before the event. 

I'm not in your league or John's shooting wise, but I'll flat out tell ya, if I know there's an arrow that I have to hold off on, or a bow that may be questionable, it ain't going with me. Last minute stuff doesn't really wash either. You have to test out your stuff before hand and if there's even a hint of doubt, you dial 1 800 Lancaster and get it replaced. I know they will help out, even in a pinch. 

BTW - paying top dollar for a piece of equipment doesn't guarantee a free ride either. It still has to be tested, and YOU have to be confident in it.

Viper1 out.


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## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

I'll take credit for every piece of my equipment and the responsibility for every equipment failure. My point is that much of what I chose was based on the advice I'm now contesting against.

In 2004 I'd only been shooting a recurve for 4 months. I'd only had those old used ACE's for less than a month. If I'd had a clue that my equipment was the issue I'd have fixed it. That's the painful part about hindsight. You see it perfectly after the fact. When you're a newbie this type of advice, taken rather literally, can be rather harmful. Luckily I'm pretty thick skinned when it comes to trials and tribulations.

I can tell you that in my case new equipment bought me 89 points in less than two months in 2005. New limbs and new ACE arrows bought my FITA best from 1157 to 1202. A new BMG riser and Beiter button bought another 42 points in 4 days up to 1246 at US Nationals. Properly tested and tuned X10's bought my personal best to 1306 in 2006 and tungsten points some rather over my head elimination match scores of 114 in 2007.

Like the mastercard commercials always say. "new riser $500, new limbs $500, brand new arrows $400, new Beiter button $100, ..... knowing it's you and not the equipment, PRICELESS!"

Pete


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Hutnicks said:


> Two great points of view (thanks guys:thumbs_up).
> 
> My simple take on it is *IF* it is not a financial hardship _*AND*_ you are at the level where you fully understand the piece of equipment in question, there is no reason NOT to by the premium item. Else wise stick within what your budget allows.


Word! :star:


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Pete -

Sorry, old man, everything your saying translates into YOU not being, in fact, ready. You didn't know that the equipment may have been at fault and even when you did, you took the chance of having to hold off on a given arrow. 

It may take me a couple of sessions to figure out if it's me or the rig, but again, if there's a doubt, I'm going back to a known item for anything other than a practice or eval session.

If you, or anyone, needs the psychologocal boost of the "latest and greatest", that's fine and is a valid stand. Just remember, a lot of people ran out to get G3s when they first appeared and some folks weren't too happy with their performance, Some were welcomed with delaminations, ditto for the WW titanium limbs. Sure, those are isolated examples, but just goes to show that the "latest and greatest" may not be.

Kinda like pick your poison. 

Viper1 out.


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## kdroberts (Aug 6, 2007)

Well, just from my very limited and new experience of buying replacement equipment, unless you buy something totally crappy somebody will buy it from you at a decent price if you don't like it. 

Why not buy the shibuya dx for $25 and try it. If you don't like it, stick for sale on here or elsewhere for $20 or ther abouts which I'm sure you'd get and then buy the Beiter. If you like the DX then you have saved yourself $75 or so, if you don't like it you have lost $5 or so. Either way I would consider it a win win situation. Even if you get the DX now and keep it for a while but decide to upgrade at a later date, you should still be able to get a fair price for it on the used market. 

If you want an even more cost effective method, see if anyone is selling a used DX (or Beiter for that matter) at the moment and give it a try, that way you may even get to try it for essentially free if you don't like it.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> My simple take on it is IF it is not a financial hardship AND you are at the level where you fully understand the piece of equipment in question, there is no reason NOT to by the premium item. Else wise stick within what your budget allows.


Right on.

John.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

c3hammer said:


> Like the mastercard commercials always say. "new riser $500, new limbs $500, brand new arrows $400, new Beiter button $100, ..... knowing it's you and not the equipment, PRICELESS!"
> 
> Pete


Nothing wrong with that!


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Limbwalker-
Used riser .........$500
Used limbs ........$200
Used arrows ......$200
Making the Olympic team..........PRICELESS!


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Bubba Dean said:


> Limbwalker-
> Used riser .........$500
> Used limbs ........$200
> Used arrows ......$200
> Making the Olympic team..........PRICELESS!


Nice, but should you really spend 150% more on your used riser than on your limbs?


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Nothing wrong with that either!


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

superb thread!!.....in my case i am lucky to be able to afford the best since i started so that eliminated a lot of what ifs!!.....now i KNOW it's ME that messes up....NEVER my equipment!!!........


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## ButchD (Nov 11, 2006)

Civilized, informed, passionate discussion about Olympic recurves. This is why I come here when I'm not outside honing my form. I was fixing breakfast, when the words "Know your equipment"" popped into my head. 
I'm a long way from where you folks are, but I'll enjoy the walk! Thanks all! Butch


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Nice, but should you really spend 150% more on your used riser than on your limbs?


Actually that was $525 for TWO used Axis risers :wink: Or 262.50 each...

So each of my bows that I used in '04 cost me less than $500.

John.


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## stevegabriel (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm in archery nursery school compared with you guys.

My bride had serious health issues brought on by stress at her job.
She went into teaching and took a 50K pay cut. Daddy wanted to get 
into barebow shooting. So I had to be thrifty...

Kap T-Rex riser $97
Winact Focus limbs free ( donated by a big hearted gent) 
24 ICS Venture arrows $120
Cartel Triple plunger $16.00
Cartel Xpert Rest $9.00
Used angel Tab $10.00
Big Armguard $15.00

Hitting a McKenzie turkey at 65 yards 2 out of 3 arrows after a compound
shooter ragged me about my "toy bow" - PRICELESS!

(He missed!)


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## all10s (Sep 29, 2006)

*plungers*

The plunger is one of the best places to sink a lot of money with minimal return when it comes to an olympic freestyle set-up. The best feature on the Beiter is the lock. Once you tighten it, it does not vibrate loose. 

Some of the other makes can be a problem with this.The quick adjustment of the Beiter is nice when setting one up, but otherwise it is not that different from the others. 

For the money, the Shibuya plungers are hard to beat.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

all10s said:


> For the money, the Shibuya plungers are hard to beat.


Well, clearly the Beiter is a great plunger. I went with the Shibuya for now, partially because it is reasonably priced and fits any bow, unlike the Beiter, which has to be configured in the correct version to fit the width of the riser.


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

Warbow said:


> Nice, but should you really spend 150% more on your used riser than on your limbs?




Buy a stick bow. Shoot wooden arrows. If you miss blame yourself.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Greg Bouras said:


> Buy a stick bow. Shoot wooden arrows. If you miss blame yourself.


Check out my sig. I've got a great OL Adcock longbow and even a nice Bickerstaffe Select English longbow. Both shoot of the shelf (well, off the hand with the ELB)--no rests, plungers, clickers, stabilizers, sights, dampeners, counterweights--and I shoot better with the Adcock than I do my OR rig.

I like simple. But I took up OR because there is a very high level of research/knowledge/coaching associated with it and I wanted to see what I could learn about archery from it.


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## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

c3hammer said:


> I'll take credit for every piece of my equipment and the responsibility for every equipment failure. My point is that much of what I chose was based on the advice I'm now contesting against.


I do not see any of the advice being given here to be what you did.

Actually, what I see is advice that would have stopped it. That is - check equipment, shoot it enough to have confidence in it, and not worry about how much it costs. Instead you didn't check equipment, didn't shoot it enough to have confidence, and didn't worry about cost.

Lets face it, if you had not checked equipment, not shot it enough to be confident, and worried about how much it costs you would still have been in the same boat. The main difference here is that you would have one of 8 arrows need culled instead of 1 of 6.

It is the check equipment and shoot enough to have confidence that matters the most. I think, as Limbwalker is trying to point out, that he pretty much proved that one beyond a shadow of doubt. If one should expect the improvements you saw from simply purchasing better equipment (and had nothing to do with, say, you working harder on your equipment and shooting enough with it to gain confidence) then Limbwalker should be one of the current record holders by a huge margin.

Though, for some people it does require that they purchase the most expensive stuff they can find to have confidence and trust in their own ability. For others the confidence lies simply in their ability. Since if the first one is correct then the second group shouldn't ever win I'm pretty much of the secondary type.


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## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

Warbow said:


> Check out my sig. I've got a great OL Adcock longbow and even a nice Bickerstaffe Select English longbow. Both shoot of the shelf (well, off the hand with the ELB)--no rests, plungers, clickers, stabilizers, sights, dampeners, counterweights--and I shoot better with the Adcock than I do my OR rig.


Haha - for quite a while I shot my OR better with no sights, stabilizer, or anything other than the flipper/plunger. Too many years of shooting a "traditional" recurve. The flipper/plunger was *soo* much more forgiving than what I was used too that I shot some really nice groups with it. Well, at least at 20-30 yards

Not so much now, sights and all that other stuff do help


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