# tack driving accuracy tuning?



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

For me the 3 most important aspects are:
1. center shot
2. FOC
3. arrow spine

For center shot I just always use the walkback tuning method. No paticular reason other than that is what works for me.

Foc I think is one of the most overlooked keys outside of the field archery world. Higher FOC arrows will shoot better, fly better, group better ect... Higher FOC gives you a more stable arrow (think of it as fletching for the front of the shaft). Personally I won't shoot an arrow under 11% FOC withmy preffrence being between 13-14%

Last but not least correct spine can make a huge difference. Here is my theory on this subject. A perfectly spined arrow stabilizes itself much faster than a weak or stiff arrow. On a perfectly executed shot this doesn't matter too much. But on those less than perfect shots if you torque the bow or something the longer it takes the arrow to stabilize the further from the center it drifts. For example say you were to make the exact same mistake on 2 seperate shots first shot with a perfect spine, second shot with a stiff spine. We will stick with torque as the mistake so you torque the bow the same way with the same amount of preasure on both shots. the perfect spine is still likely to catch the 5 (for me ussually around 9 0clock) where as the stiff arrow takes longer to stabilize and it is ussually going to end up a 4 (again 9 oclock)
I believe this to be the reason that all of my personal best indoor scores have all been shot with reg. sized carbons, and not super stiff logs.


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## Fordwrench (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks bowgod! Anybody else have any thoughts?when are you guys satified when tuning?


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

I agree. after I pick the right arrow combo, I go out and walk back tune. Typically 20 and 50 yards. Then I get my marks by shooting 30 and 80 yards. Plug those into the AA palm then shoot 2 yards to verify. If I can't put the arrow in the same hole at 2 yards then I tweek my yardage marks til the palm is right on at 2 (sometimes changing the peep hight in bow set up is needed). Then I go back and redo my center shot by shooting 3 yards, then leaving my sight set at that walk back to the equivelent yardage (for me is 54yrds) and make sure I am dead center. Then I verify all the yardages 5-100 every 5 yards is on. I do this with a 3" wide x 12" long horizontal line, not caring about any left or rights but concentrating on elevation. Now the bow is set and the rest is me.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Do a little scrolling down through the first 3-4 pages.....this topic has been beat to death. 

You would be amazed and the little amount of tuning most do.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I agree with most of what is posted above. However, "tack driving" accuracy for a "tune", IMHO, starts with the individual shooter.

The BOW will repeat itself over and over as long as the shooter doesn't interfere with what the bow does by itself.

To get "tack driving" accuracy, the SHOOTER needs to be "tuned" first and then he/she can set up the bow to be more forgiving...because at that point, the SHOOTER will know if it the shooter, or if it is some minor bow adjustment that is needed.

If you don't know whether it is the bow or the shooter, it is pretty tough to drive tacks with accuracy, IMHO.

First and foremost is BOW FIT...that DL has got to be spot on...then a solid and repeatable anchor, solid bow arm/bow shoulder, solid "shooter's triangle", etc.

Oh, then there are the "sweet spots" of the bow/arrow combination. I think there are three "sweet spots"....the weak side, the middle, and the stiff side of the bow/arrow combination.

Don't be afraid to tinker with POUNDAGE of the bow instead of always tweaking the point weight or shaft length...I've had many a case of 1/4 turn on the limb bolts radically changing the "tack driving" capability of the setup.

All too often a shooter picks a poundage, trusting AA or OT2 to the letter...and never realizes that THE SHOOTER can radically affect how that arrow combo will work for THEIR bow. The programs are generic...and it is up to the SHOOTER to use that as a GUIDE...and not be afraid to change or tweak the poundage....afterall...it is a COMPOUND bow...and the poundage is adjustable...why do people set the poundage and never tweak that around? They'll spend hundreds of dollars on new arrows...when a simple change in poundage will most likely make the ones they have work just fine.

Oh, and for FIELD and TARGET shooting...it isn't all about SPEED! The target isn't going anywhere and you know the distance...don't sweat the SPEED...You don't need 270 fps to shoot decent field or target scores....I've seen many a 555+ field or hunt round shot at speeds LESS THAN 215 fps with aluminum arrows. Been there and done that...but it has been awhile since I had that prowess.

field14:darkbeer::darkbeer:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I agree with F14.....for the most part :wink:

Every since I worked with his brother a few years ago....I spend more time working on my DL and my fit to the bow/setup then anything. Other then that...nock high left...then group tune at 60 and then let em eat


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## Fordwrench (Mar 5, 2009)

thanks to those who offered advise! i realize that i have to be at my best to realize a forgiving setup. i shoot fairly well and i can tell the difference in grouping capability of the light speed arrows i tried. indoors i shot fatboy 400s and shot 50 -55- xs consistently. a switch to light speed 500s 4hrs of tuning with good arrow flight and im not impressed. most group at the size of a 50 cent piece or so at 20yds, but that is it. the fatboys shot alot tighter for me but are too slow outside for unmarked yardage. i turned nocks and plotted numbered arrows. i did have a couple that will not tune into the group for whatever reason. anyway , what im saying is i was just looking for a little help on getting my arrows to shot at their best. sorry if i brought up an old subject,i read most of the previos posts before i asked, thanks.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

There are so many different things that you can do to get better groups. YOU have to be consistant. Your equipment has to be tuned. But things like a 1/4" adjustment in DL, a different size peep, peep hight, a 1/4 turn out of a limb, differnent releases, different release speeds. There are so many different scenerios no one on AT can cover them all for each person. You should experiment with all of these to find what is best for you. Log your groups, adjust ONE thing log the results then try something else until you have enough info to determine what works best. EVERYONE is different. You will never know what is best if you don't experiment. If you want to improve, never have the "that's good enough" attitude. Have the attitude of when you step up to shoot you know that you are going to put each arrow in the X. Don't make excuses for a bad shot....correct it.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Fordwrench said:


> thanks to those who offered advise! i realize that i have to be at my best to realize a forgiving setup. i shoot fairly well and i can tell the difference in grouping capability of the light speed arrows i tried. indoors i shot fatboy 400s and shot 50 -55- xs consistently. a switch to light speed 500s 4hrs of tuning with good arrow flight and im not impressed. most group at the size of a 50 cent piece or so at 20yds, but that is it. the fatboys shot alot tighter for me but are too slow outside for unmarked yardage. i turned nocks and plotted numbered arrows. i did have a couple that will not tune into the group for whatever reason. anyway , what im saying is i was just looking for a little help on getting my arrows to shot at their best. sorry if i brought up an old subject,i read most of the previos posts before i asked, thanks.


I agree with the above....but it doesn't take 1/4" of DL to make a huge difference! You'd be amazed at a difference of a 1/2 twist in a buss cable or 1/2 twist on the control cable (if a hybrid)...and away you go! DL has got to be there, and trust me 1/8" is "almost" close enough.....especially outdoors.

Again, you are shooting a compound bow...don't be afraid to tweak the poundage up or down to get the bow to arrow "sweet spot"...You'll be amazed. NEVER just pick a poundage and decide it is either that poundage or sink....cuz much of the time, you will sink! Lots cheaper to tweak poundage than it is to buy yet another set of arrows or to cut 'em off and find out you went the wrong way...haha

field14


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

DL is very important. So is how you set up on the cam. From what I understand the spirals like to be shot strong against the wall. I also find that to be true with my solo cams.

Once the bow fits and you are making good shots do your walk back or French tune. Then do a nock tune job at a long distance (I do it at 70M). Sometimes by making slight nock adjustments up or down your string you can really change your groups. You may even want to play with the rest angle a bit and even try a lighter or stiffer blade.

When you make changes, take measurements and write them all down along with a shot log. Making these adjustments is going to take some time to get it just right. Shoot for a couple days with each change. And only make one change at a time! If you do too much at once you won't know if you miss something.

Getting the right arrow for long distance shooting can really be a pain and an expensive one at that. Small changes in point weight, DL, poundage, holding weight, etc. can make big impacts on your down range results. Take your time and be patient. It'll pay off in the end. Good luck.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

AT_X_HUNTER said:


> DL is very important. So is how you set up on the cam. From what I understand the spirals like to be shot strong against the wall. I also find that to be true with my solo cams.
> 
> Once the bow fits and you are making good shots do your walk back or French tune. Then do a nock tune job at a long distance (I do it at 70M). Sometimes by making slight nock adjustments up or down your string you can really change your groups. You may even want to play with the rest angle a bit and even try a lighter or stiffer blade.
> 
> ...


Good comments!
I've seen 1/2 twist in a control cable change a group from all sorta in the 5-ring at 65 yards....to all in the X-ring and touching each other at 65 yards...YES...1/2 twist can possibly make that much difference!

I've also had 1/4 turn in poundage have a very drastic effect on grouping at distance. I've had it where a heavier and slightly stiffer shaft would gain yardage and group a ton tighter...at the same poundage out of the bow! I've also had the reverse where a slightly weaker shaft and lighter would gain tons of yardage at distance. It is a matter of finding the sweet spot and like was posted earlier, it isn't a one or two arrow or one or two day situation...you gotta work to find it...but when you do....it is PRICELESS.

field14


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## bowhnter7 (Dec 6, 2004)

Wow..........y'all got alot more time to shoot then I.:mg:

I wish I had time to test all those things out to get the most out of my rigs. I usually only have enough time to do some basic tuning, get my marks, make a tape and then practice and attend shoots. I am always afraid that once I got all that, make a change, tapes now all jacked, is it better or not, ok now fix and test the tape, practice and attend shoots.

I can't just step outside and shoot at the distances I need to for all this, I only got 45 yards at home, gotta go somewhere to do it. I love shooting outdoors but sure does seem like there could be alot to it. Heck just "playing" with your nock height to "test" to see if groups are better sucks. I use a tie on nock, trying to tie one on a 1/32 lower or heigher and then test each time is a PITA, plus can I really tell at 40 or 45 yards anyway?

I may spend more time doing some of what y'all talk about this year. Right now I got my 1st AM900 round next weekend so I just need to be shooting and getting my final marks right now.......tough enough finding time and calmness for that.


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

bowhnter7 said:


> Wow..........y'all got alot more time to shoot then I.:mg:
> 
> I wish I had time to test all those things out to get the most out of my rigs. I usually only have enough time to do some basic tuning, get my marks, make a tape and then practice and attend shoots.
> I may spend more time doing some of what y'all talk about this year. right now.......tough enough finding time and calmness for that.


Ditto, at least for this year. Too many irons in the fire. I'll get a good paper tune at 6 feet and matching hole at 10 yards. Then set my 20 yard pin. Walk back to 50 and set that pin. If I'm set up OK, the arrow is true for both distances. I still have to set up my field bow for this year. :sad: I might be set up to tweak it better in a week or two. Last year with a different arrow, I was holding tight groups out to 60 yards, which was my farthest of 5 pins.


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## 3dshooter80 (Mar 13, 2006)

Hey Fordwrench, 
I think you answered your own question. You went from the 400 spine arrow to a 500 spine arrow and now you aren't shooting well. The spiral cam bow is a very aggressive cam and from my experience, it likes a little stiffer arrow. I shoot the fatboy 400's at 58# with the cam.5 plus with 65% letoff at 28" and I am getting 280 fps out of my setup. I would think with the 1/2" longer dl and 2# less dw, you should be pretty close to that. I am shooting the 80 grain points for 3d since the longest shot is 50 yards. For field, you should look into an arrow with a 450 spine or 400 such as an acc 3-39 which is a 440 spine or the goldtip caa 450 which is a 440 spine. I think you are just a little weak on the arrow spine.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

To the original thread starter....your issue (like was mentioned earlier) sounds like a spine issue). A lot of people go outside and throw a "3D" rig together....arrows that spine right or close to right with light points and think that's good. Then wonder why they don't group past 20-30yds. 


B7....what's wrong with getting your stuff setup...and then shooting a practice round or even a local shoot with a turn off or on your limbs? Move your needle or add or subtract a few clicks and you should be good go....you are only practicing....pay attention to how the bow shoots and how the arrows group. To many people put to much into local shoots that don't mean :zip:

I have been known to go to a shoot with zero marks or even a bow that I changed yesterday and got a half arsed mark on and just shoot....I too many people get caught up in needing to have everything perfect.....

and people wonder why they beat me by 15 at home then go to the "Hill" and then get beat by me....:doh:


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## bowhnter7 (Dec 6, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> To the original thread starter....your issue (like was mentioned earlier) sounds like a spine issue). A lot of people go outside and throw a "3D" rig together....arrows that spine right or close to right with light points and think that's good. Then wonder why they don't group past 20-30yds.
> 
> 
> B7....what's wrong with getting your stuff setup...and then shooting a practice round or even a local shoot with a turn off or on your limbs? Move your needle or add or subtract a few clicks and you should be good go....you are only practicing....pay attention to how the bow shoots and how the arrows group. To many people put to much into local shoots that don't mean :zip:
> ...


BH,

I smell what your sitting in........ but you see round these parts we ain't got the shoots like you do. Yeah you can get in a foamlover shoot every weekend but I can count the field/target shoots on one hand (maybe 1 1/2) and three of them are the Big Sky, NFAA/IFAAClassic 600 and the NFAA SW field. I see two "local" field shoots on the calender, the "big" state field,target and state games in August.........that's it.

Like I said I want to do more this year as far as some of those tweeks, right now I just need to shoot. New bow/sticks this year, shooting outdoors with it, we are still getting aquainted so to speak.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

BH. I have had my current target bow for 17 months now. It wasn't until July last year that I finally started getting it shooting real good. Now here it is almost May and I feel that I have finally got the perfect setup. Some changes were dismissed right away but others took some time to settle in. The last change was arrows (4th configuration) now everything seems to have settled into itself. I spent a whole month just on string loop lengths, which was effecting my 80+ yard shots. I don't have a ton of time to shoot, if I get a half hour a day I'm doing good but I make the most of that half hour. In my neck of the woods it's almost exclusively 3-D, so almost all of my prep is in my field by myself. To get better you must also shoot with a higher quality of competition. It's not the quantity of arrows going down range it's the quality of each shot.


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## Fordwrench (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys! I did a good walk back tune and made a few changes at 40 yds. 1/4 turn off the bottom limb really improved my grouping. I was shocked! I may try shortning my draw a little too. Had my girl snap a few pics of me to ck my form. I need a little less dl to strighten my upper body. Anyway I really am happy so far. Ace 430s. Are shooting really good out of this bow. I'm happy!


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

I agree with Hornet and Field!

Once the bow is tuned to YOUR form, spend some time with your stabilizer weight, length, one or two v-bars and v-bar angle. 

I had my S4 shooting pretty good but was not happy with my pancake groups at 70-80 yards. I spent an entire day at the range changing weights (by 0.8oz. at a time!) main stabilizer and v-bars, and v-bar angles. Things started getting better with a combo of more weight and different v-bar angles until I had 3 ends at 80 with 3 X's and a 5 and the 4th end was 4 X's. I didn't change poundage, DL, rest, D-loop or anything else! 

But like they said, the actual "tune" has to be correct first and this is one of the little things you can do that can make a HUGH difference!


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