# Nebraska Crossbow Full Inclusion 2011



## Tim50

Great news for the fellow hunters of Nebraska. The powers that be addressed the crossbow inclusion and decided the issue using available data & facts and not emotion! Congrats to the Commissioners of Nebraska!



> NORFOLK - Nebraska will allow crossbows during the archery season next year in an effort to increase hunters and decrease deer.
> 
> After more than an hour of public testimony Thursday, the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission voted 6-3 to expand crossbow hunting.
> 
> The change sharply disappointed some archery hunters who say crossbows operate more like rifles and shouldn't be afforded the same status as bows and arrows.
> 
> "Just because they have it in Michigan and Ohio and other places doesn't mean we need to have it," said Dick Mauch of Bassett, an 84-year-old bowhunter who testified in opposition to the change.
> 
> But crossbows have supporters, too, mostly those who say the weapons make it easier to introduce young hunters to hunting or retain older hunters who can no longer pull a bow.
> 
> "I know there's other people in the state that will take advantage of this," said Christopher Griffin of Papillion, who travels to Oklahoma to hunt with his crossbow.
> 
> Under current regulations, hunters can use crossbows during the firearm deer season, which affords them 43 days of hunting. Hunters with verified physical disabilities may use them during the roughly 75-day archery season as well.
> 
> Starting next year, crossbow hunters will be able to use the weapons during both seasons.
> 
> Jim Douglas, wildlife division administrator for Game and Parks, said he believes about 2,000 hunters will use crossbows in the archery season, although not all of them will be new. He predicted a harvest of about 1,000 deer by those hunters.
> 
> Commissioners who voted for the change said the state needs to do everything it can to increase the harvest of whitetail deer in the state. Nebraska's current high deer populations are blamed for crop losses, fatal accidents and auto damage.
> 
> Rich Walters, a spokesman with the Nebraska Bowhunters Association, opposes the change on the grounds that it could degrade the archery season by allowing in too many hunters. Roughly 14,000 people buy an archery permit each year.
> 
> Walters asked the commission to table the vote so the association could discuss other options with agency staff.
> 
> Several commissioners questioned how allowing someone to hunt with a crossbow will affect an archer's hunt.
> 
> "It boils down to you don't want more hunters in the woods," said Commissioner Kent Forney of Lincoln. "We need more hunters."


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## rattus58

Tim50 said:


> Great news for the fellow hunters of Nebraska. The powers that be addressed the crossbow inclusion and decided the issue using available data & facts and not emotion! Congrats to the Commissioners of Nebraska!


Outstanding... now we'll see what we can get done in Hawaii.

Great News.... :beer:


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## missedabiggun

will be interesting if outfitters will allow them...there's some good deer out there


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## Tim50

If it is a statewide legal weapon one would hope select outfitters would not discrininate against another form of archery equipment. BUT it is their business and if that is what they choose to do that is their call. IMO they will quickly change their position if their anti crossbow decision starts to hit them in the pocket book. I have read in some states where inclusion has been adopted that the local anti crossbow organization has made attempts to sign up open privatelands to "no crossbow zones". Some will just never get past the emotion of this issue.


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## archerm3

Tim50 said:


> Great news for the fellow hunters of Nebraska. The powers that be addressed the crossbow inclusion and decided the issue using available data & facts and not emotion! Congrats to the Commissioners of Nebraska!


speak for yourself, this is NOT good news for nebraska. You know, speaking as a NEBRASKAN.

We don't need more hunters. We only need more hunters on exclusive hunting-leased land where the one guy hunting doesnt shoot any does. Or the multitude of landowners that wont let anyone hunt their 5000 acre properties and then ask the state game and parks to pay for their crop damage. Stratbucker and Wenninghof families are two of them...

This is just like curing cancer with a bottle of tylenol.


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## jesse1004

I couldn't agree more. If they want to decrease the number of deer they should MAKE people shoot does. Weather that means checking in a doe before allowed to shoot a buck or somthing along those lines. This state already has a very low buck to doe ratio because the rifle season falls in the middle of rut. All this is going to do is get a drove of rifle hunters to start buying crossbows to thin out the 1 year old bucks even more. I have nothing against using a crossbow if you physically cant use a bow but leave bow hunting, bow hunting and not cross bow hunting.


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## Tim50

Archerm3....It appears your issue goes deeper than a hunters choice of weapon. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. IMO giving fellow hunters a choice of archery weapons is good! Possibily getting some new hunters interested in hunting & bringing some older hunters BACK to the hunting woods is IMO a good thing! So your issue in not with the crossbow but how the hunting in your state is managed. This is the typical anti crossbow lament...no more hunters in MY woods during MY season.


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## Jim C

jesse1004 said:


> I couldn't agree more. If they want to decrease the number of deer they should MAKE people shoot does. Weather that means checking in a doe before allowed to shoot a buck or somthing along those lines. This state already has a very low buck to doe ratio because the rifle season falls in the middle of rut. All this is going to do is get a drove of rifle hunters to start buying crossbows to thin out the 1 year old bucks even more. I have nothing against using a crossbow if you physically cant use a bow but leave bow hunting, bow hunting and not cross bow hunting.


you feel the same way about compound bows? after all Mr Allen invented the compound bow for a relative who was unable to shoot a recurve bow


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## archerm3

Tim50 said:


> Archerm3....It appears your issue goes deeper than a hunters choice of weapon. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. IMO giving fellow hunters a choice of archery weapons is good! Possibily getting some new hunters interested in hunting & bringing some older hunters BACK to the hunting woods is IMO a good thing! So your issue in not with the crossbow but how the hunting in your state is managed. This is the typical anti crossbow lament...no more hunters in MY woods during MY season.


You're right to an extent, there is two separate issues at hand here. Which is why i made the sympton/cure remark...What many of you outof staters don't understand is the crossbows ARE already legal during rifle season. Any hunter who wants to hunt with HIS(MY/his) chosen weapon of a crossbow can hunt during (MY/his) rifle season already. If they want to complain about not getting a long season IOT reduce deer population, well then they should just let gun season open up for the same length of time as archery..that will certainly make the kill NUMBERS and PERCENTAGE of success go up. So it doesn't make sense to anybody except a non handicapped crossbow hunter thats afraid of learning a bow, and retailers poised to sell another $2000 rig to a rifle hunter, and a game commission looking to bilk another forty bucks out of the multitude of rifle hunters.

Yes, it certainly goes back to the same bow vs xbow argument. The essence of why archery seasons are longer is due to the difficulty in drawing the string and holding it seconds before the moment of truth. That movement and strength/stamina required is what makes bowhunting a lower percentage shot due to game spooking during the draw, or the hunter tiring before the game enters field of fire. Xbows hunters can lie in firing position for hours just like a rifle hunter so the chance of spooking game is less. So now some 60 years later, that argument no longer holds water because somebody wants to sell the most expensive of archery tackle (xbows) or rifle hunters want a longer season. I'd sooner vote for a 3 month rifle season than have to share archery season with a non handicapped xbow hunter who bought his broadheads at walmart the morning of, shooting 100 yards potshots from the open window of a F150.

Make no doubt about it, MY game and parks commission is masking this rule changing under the excuse of deer overpopulation against the will of the majority of bowhunters in this state. Your own press release shows that their main excuse was to increase deer kill, secondary was an increase in permit sales to pad the organizational budget, and how allowing extended xbow season is better than offering an extended rifle season is ridiculous and blatant.


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## archerm3

Tim50 said:


> Archerm3....It appears your issue goes deeper than a hunters choice of weapon. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. IMO giving fellow hunters a choice of archery weapons is good! Possibily getting some new hunters interested in hunting & bringing some older hunters BACK to the hunting woods is IMO a good thing! So your issue in not with the crossbow but how the hunting in your state is managed. This is the typical anti crossbow lament...no more hunters in MY woods during MY season.


Maybe Pennsylvania and Ohio needs more hunters in their woods too. You know, judging by all the rants I see here on AT in the bowhunting sections about trespassers, brown and down, poachers, and inconsiderate hunters in PA and areas northeast.

There is no shortage of hunters in this state without a quality place to hunt other than the overcrowded and overhunted CRP's and WMA's. (Mean while the deer will sneer and snort at you on the other side of the fence on private ground next to the WMA. 

You see the Game and Parks Commissions stated issue is deer overpopulation. 
Their solution to that is to manipulate the weapon rules to provide a facade of a magic bullet solution. The truth is that it's a convenient excuse to pad their budget with increased archery permit sales (this years was around 14000 permits). 

The truth is that deer are only overpopulated in specific areas and tracts in the state with limited hunting access. Such as acreage tracts, bird hunting leases, and private ranches/megafarms. The solution is to increase hunter access to these private lands with incentives to landowners. Incidentally they did start a program this year that will help slightly with that very issue of access.


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## Tim50

So if hunting access was better you would have no issue with crossbow inclusion? 14000 hunters for a state the size of Nebraska does not sound like the woods would be overrun. See how the first year goes. You have drunk the anti crossbow koolaid that is short on facts & data. Even the harshest of critic's against crossbows in Pennsylvania have stated crossbow inclusion has been a non issue. As for your poaching slight in Ohio last year there were more poachers arrested using compounds than crossbows. Honestly if people are going to break the law they will usually use what they have. If you have ever handled a crossbow you would know that even having in in the cab of your truck going hunting is an issue...Get educated on the truth about crossbow & crossbow inclusion & then come back & discuss this issue. A guy shooting HIGH END compounds ($1600) has has little room to talk about crossbow prices. You "finger shooter" lead me to believe you may have been a traditional bow hunter. But the bows you listed are far from traditional equipment. Have a safe season!


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## archerm3

Tim50 said:


> So if hunting access was better you would have no issue with crossbow inclusion?
> 
> 
> 
> no, i would still have a problem with it. Like I said twice before they are two separate issues, and the G&P are trying to combine them. It's like having a problem with the health care plan and fixing it with federal mileage standards on new cars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14000 hunters for a state the size of Nebraska does not sound like the woods would be overrun. See how the first year goes. You have drunk the anti crossbow koolaid that is short on facts & data. Even the harshest of critic's against crossbows in Pennsylvania have stated crossbow inclusion has been a non issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I lived in Alabama at the same time as the crossbow inclusion down there. I agree that its usually a non issue. That's not the point. The point is probably what you consider koolaid, that is that hunting with a bow is more difficult and lower percentage shot due to having to time drawing the bow and the movement entailed. Its akin to muzzleloader being different than rifle season: both can be fired in one shot why should MZ's be allowed additional time because it takes longer to fire a second shot. It's the breakdown of that same logic that I have a problem with. If there is no difference, then the state should just make one long season with any weapon allowed. That I would be ok with. Because it's logical. Jamming crossbows during the archery season is illogical for everybody but people that are seeking an advantage (i.e. have an ulterior motive) in using a crossbow. You just might be that kind of person based on your vehement defense of this action which doesn't concern your state. If a xbow hunter doesn't have any hunting success advantage over a bowhunter than they can hop on down to the local proshop, pick up a compound bow and go hunting like the rest of us. Otherwise there is a perceived and possibly real advantage to using a crossbow and it's increased chance of success that these so called throngs of non archers waiting for a _longer _crossbow season to come out of the woodwork. Crossbows have always been legal during the rifle season WHICH USED TO BE KNOWN AS THE DEER SEASON with any weapon. Some 60 years ago or so is when specific archery seasons were lobbied for due to the complex challenges of getting close to deer and getting a shot off. Why has it taken the xbow lobby 60 years +/- to rock the boat now? What's changed?
> 
> 
> 
> As for your poaching slight in Ohio last year there were more poachers arrested using compounds than crossbows.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see your reference for that.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly if people are going to break the law they will usually use what they have. If you have ever handled a crossbow you would know that even having in in the cab of your truck going hunting is an issue...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've handled 4 different crossbows in over 15 years and even considered getting one (know of any Bear Devastator's around for cheap? Or a PSE Tac xbow cheap?) Handling one in a truck is obviously more awkward than a rifle, but at least it's doable unlike a bow. Beside, who says that everyone drives pickups. Or single cabs for that matter, lots of room in a dogde megacab.
> 
> 
> 
> Get educated on the truth about crossbow & crossbow inclusion & then come back & discuss this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Im here discussing it now. If you feel like you have some truth to share, pony up cowboy! We can talk about the nebraska legislature too if you like. My guess is that you would be just as uneducated on that as you are on this
> A guy shooting HIGH END compounds ($1600) has has little room to talk about crossbow prices. You "finger shooter" lead me to believe you may have been a traditional bow hunter. But the bows you listed are far from traditional equipment. Have a safe season!
Click to expand...

I have no problem with the cost of a ten point crossbow and if I wanted one bad enough I'd get it. Besides, I don't pay for a lot of my archery equipment even though I don't brag about it like most in their signature field. But there is certainly a large amount of markup on crossbow equipment, moreso than archery equipment save for maybe a Carbon Matrix or some x10s or a WinWin or a $200 hunk of metal called a stabilizer. All of them overpriced, but when a company or organization starts lobbying and manipulating government regs to favor their product, I got a big problem with that. ATA's hands aren't clean on this either.

PS: I'll tell you whats changed.

1. Game commission budgets are in the red and are scrambling for revenue and are eager to deal with the devil. ATA and xbow lobbyists/OEM's/retailers are more than willing to provide assistance.
2. Deer numbers are up in "CERTAIN" areas, and it only makes sense to use the most successful weapon to combat that. That would be RIFLE, MZ, Xbow, and bow, in that order. Its smells fishy to be starting in the middle of a list.


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## Tim50

Bottom line is crossbows will be in season next year. Vent all you like. Crossbows are only a choice. You are not forced to use one....some will some will not. My only request is post valid facts concerning crossbows & the hunters that use them! Sometime people's emotions take over their good sense. Name calling & misinformation does not help the hunting community. Pitting weapon against weapon, hunter against hunter is IMO counter productive at this time when anti hunting groups are doing their best to undermine the hunting expierence. You are entitled to your opinion about crossbows & I encourage you to persue this thru the proper channels in Nebraska. This IS America! But a little advice....approach the powers that be with data & facts THAT will get things done NOT emotional outbursts laced with name calling & misinformation. Have a safe season!


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## archerm3

Tim50 said:


> Bottom line is crossbows will be in season next year. Vent all you like. Crossbows are only a choice. You are not forced to use one....some will some will not. My only request is post valid facts concerning crossbows & the hunters that use them! Sometime people's emotions take over their good sense. Name calling & misinformation does not help the hunting community. Pitting weapon against weapon, hunter against hunter is IMO counter productive at this time when anti hunting groups are doing their best to undermine the hunting expierence. You are entitled to your opinion about crossbows & I encourage you to persue this thru the proper channels in Nebraska. This IS America! But a little advice....approach the powers that be with data & facts THAT will get things done NOT emotional outbursts laced with name calling & misinformation. Have a safe season!


Since you are a hard core crossbow shooter (obviously not a disinterested party on this issue), where is all this facts and data you claim to have? got them or not? Oh, there hasn't been any namecalling nor misinformation near as I can tell. Sounds like someone ran out of poker chips and excused themselves from the table.

Here's another question. Why do you need more than 9 days to harvest a deer with a crossbow? That's what rifle hunters get....and you're in the same season. 

Have a safe and successful season yourself!


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## Tim50

> NORFOLK - Nebraska will allow crossbows during the archery season next year in an effort to increase hunters and decrease deer.





> Commissioners who voted for the change said the state needs to do everything it can to increase the harvest of whitetail deer in the state. Nebraska's current high deer populations are blamed for crop losses, fatal accidents and auto damage.





> It boils down to you don't want more hunters in the woods," said Commissioner Kent Forney of Lincoln. "We need more hunters."


I'm not the one who ran out of chips! The crossbow community was "all in" and won! I no longer have to defend crossbow inclusion to those who refuse to accept inclusion. Your tired attacks on inclusion have been defeated soundly in states before Nebraska & will hopefully continue on to other non inclusion states. If you do not feel crossbows are archery equipment you are entitled to your minority opinion. Fortunatly the only opinion that counts in Nebraska does not agree with you! Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together???? Enjoy the season!!!!!!


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## missedabiggun

If you'd like the facts...I can provide some for you from the first year of full inclusion in NJ. I heard the same emotional arguments from anti-crossbow folks here. And, you can complain all you like about the revenue side of the argument. Unfortunately, it takes money to run any agency, and the simple truth is that State wildlife agencies are no different. Ask the good folks up in Wisconsin why their DNR aligned themsemves with the HSUS to make a PSA? Simple...the HSUS showed up with money, and the Wisconsin DNR sold out. 

As far as statistics....our harvest numbers were virtually identical after full inclusion as they were before. The 2008/2009 totals were 53260 for all weapons.....2009/2010 totals were 52784. Factor in Sunday archery hunting (first time ever in 09/10) on top of full inclusion, and the numbers are even more supportive that full inclusion was a non-event. In NJ, our six-day firearm season follows archery. The 6-day hunters were concerned that full inclusion would kill too many deer, and there would be nothing left for them. Oddly enough, the 09/10 6-day harvest was higher after full inclusion than the previous season. 

I understand the emotion.....but give this situation at least one season...examine the data before you try and declare it a disaster.


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## Tim50

missedabiggun said:


> If you'd like the facts...I can provide some for you from the first year of full inclusion in NJ. I heard the same emotional arguments from anti-crossbow folks here. And, you can complain all you like about the revenue side of the argument. Unfortunately, it takes money to run any agency, and the simple truth is that State wildlife agencies are no different. Ask the good folks up in Wisconsin why their DNR aligned themsemves with the HSUS to make a PSA? Simple...the HSUS showed up with money, and the Wisconsin DNR sold out.
> 
> As far as statistics....our harvest numbers were virtually identical after full inclusion as they were before. The 2008/2009 totals were 53260 for all weapons.....2009/2010 totals were 52784. Factor in Sunday archery hunting (first time ever in 09/10) on top of full inclusion, and the numbers are even more supportive that full inclusion was a non-event. In NJ, our six-day firearm season follows archery. The 6-day hunters were concerned that full inclusion would kill too many deer, and there would be nothing left for them. Oddly enough, the 09/10 6-day harvest was higher after full inclusion than the previous season.
> 
> I understand the emotion.....but give this situation at least one season...examine the data before you try and declare it a disaster.


Good data & facts....no emotion! That is interesting up in WI! Their DNR would rather align themselves with HSUS than fellow hunters. The WBH is a political/hunting organization who will fight crossbow inclusion "apperently" at any cost. I guess the emotion of crossbow inclusion can create strange bed fellows! I guess with all the WBH money going to pay for lobbyist to fight crossbow inclusion the HSUS issue just "slipped by"!!!


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## S.F. steve

crossbows have been legal in ohio since 1976 and the ohio div. of wildlife could not be happier with the arrangement. there are no problems between xbow and long bow hunters. it has worked out beautifully as it will in nebraska. the statement that people will be poaching out of a truck window with a xbow is laughable. your problem is sharing the woods with more bowhunters. get over it. it keeps the older hunters bow hunting and it opens things up for the youngsters. it is good for hunting over all in nebraska and in every state that it has been made legal. i have relatives in western nebraska and i think they can find me a place to hunt. i'm looking forward to it.


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## archerm3

missedabiggun said:


> If you'd like the facts...I can provide some for you from the first year of full inclusion in NJ. I heard the same emotional arguments from anti-crossbow folks here. And, you can complain all you like about the revenue side of the argument. Unfortunately, it takes money to run any agency, and the simple truth is that State wildlife agencies are no different. Ask the good folks up in Wisconsin why their DNR aligned themsemves with the HSUS to make a PSA? Simple...the HSUS showed up with money, and the Wisconsin DNR sold out.
> 
> As far as statistics....our harvest numbers were virtually identical after full inclusion as they were before. The 2008/2009 totals were 53260 for all weapons.....2009/2010 totals were 52784. Factor in Sunday archery hunting (first time ever in 09/10) on top of full inclusion, and the numbers are even more supportive that full inclusion was a non-event. In NJ, our six-day firearm season follows archery. The 6-day hunters were concerned that full inclusion would kill too many deer, and there would be nothing left for them. Oddly enough, the 09/10 6-day harvest was higher after full inclusion than the previous season.
> 
> I understand the emotion.....but give this situation at least one season...examine the data before you try and declare it a disaster.


So, somebody with some facts, because obviously tim50 doesn't have any and is just answering and bullying with emotion.

So, your deer kill numbers went DOWN after inclusion with crossbows...doesn't look like that meets the intent of killing more deer....strike one for the crossbow rant.

Majority opinion doesn't rule when there isn't a vote...appointed administrators' decisions make the rules.


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## archerm3

Tim50 said:


> I'm not the one who ran out of chips! The crossbow community was "all in" and won! I no longer have to defend crossbow inclusion to those who refuse to accept inclusion. Your tired attacks on inclusion have been defeated soundly in states before Nebraska & will hopefully continue on to other non inclusion states. If you do not feel crossbows are archery equipment you are entitled to your minority opinion. Fortunatly the only opinion that counts in Nebraska does not agree with you! Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together???? Enjoy the season!!!!!!


If you choose not to reply with arguments and reason, you are the one who has run out of arguments. You are the perpetrator in this thread, you can't choose to end discussion. You have to defend your thread, not the repealable rule in a state you do not live in. So bring on the facts you imply that you have.

My minority opinion is now going to include the fact that most crossbow hunters are spoiled little smug inconsiderate incapable hunters that are intimidated by the slightest amount of physical exertion. Probably poachers too.


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## archerm3

S.F. steve said:


> crossbows have been legal in ohio since 1976 and the ohio div. of wildlife could not be happier with the arrangement. there are no problems between xbow and long bow hunters. it has worked out beautifully as it will in nebraska. the statement that people will be poaching out of a truck window with a xbow is laughable. your problem is sharing the woods with more bowhunters. get over it. it keeps the older hunters bow hunting and it opens things up for the youngsters. it is good for hunting over all in nebraska and in every state that it has been made legal. i have relatives in western nebraska and i think they can find me a place to hunt. i'm looking forward to it.


I can't believe you guys are this thick in the head. YOU COULD ALREADY HUNT IN NEBRASKA WITH A CROSSBOW. DURING RIFLE SEASON. WITHOUT RESTRICTION. DURING THE RUT. 
Why havent you hunted western nebraska yet in your last 40 years or whatever age you are.

Older hunters hunting. Hmmm. My dad is 68 and takes his 70 lb compound out every year. If he ever gets too feeble to shoot a bow, he can march on down to the doctors offie and get a permission slip to use a crossbow during archery season (under current rules). Or he could hunt during rifle season (under current rules). 

Young kids? How young do you need to be to kill a deer? Kids' cant shoot a bow? 

I'm so disgusted that you guys seem to be concerned with how happy the game departments are with the arrangements, as opposed to the majority of residents of a state in this democratic nation where majority opinion is supposed to rule. Whatever suits your own personal motives.

All you crossbow hunters are is rifle hunters who want to extend their season (I can appreciate that) with another weapon but don't want to (which I have a problem with, ME ME ME and my choice) go through the mild trouble of developing skills to match the weapon of another season like everyone else has.


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## archerm3

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1357879&page=2



ttank0789 said:


> Ok to answer a few things that people seem a little unclear on.
> I don't hunt this woods so I'm not worried about him killing "my" deer.
> He was in full camo and had a crossbow slung over his back so it's pretty safe to assume he was hunting
> The field he was in belongs to the village. While village property is public property you can't hunt on it.
> And I didn't do this expecting a reward. The little box was there so I checked it. I was all done filling out the form before I realized it was there and I figured "why not?"


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## xbow1

Congratulations, Nebraska!


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## missedabiggun

archerm3.....I'd like to debate this with you further.....but it seems to me that you have nothing to offer from your side than the same things I heard here in NJ. I provided you with data that proved that full inclusion would not wipe out deer herds, and supports it as a non-event. You took one statistic and spun it so as to seemingly completely derail including crossbows in all archery seasons without restriction. I wish you well in your season(s), but would love to revisit this debate with you after next season concludes.


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## S.F. steve

archerm3, in a earlier post you state that the state of nebraska issued 14,000 deer permits last year for archery hunters? i would have to say you need more out of state hunters to control your deer herds. our archery hunters killed 49,000 deer in the first 6 weeks of the season. nebraska is a big state with few people in it. crossbows give you one more tool to control your deer herds and get a few more out of state hunters in to nebraska. in 3 to5 years it will be a non issue to every archery hunter in your state just like it is here in ohio. it won't effect your hunting next year. wish you the best with the rest of your season.


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## Tim50

archerm3 said:


> If you choose not to reply with arguments and reason, you are the one who has run out of arguments. You are the perpetrator in this thread, you can't choose to end discussion. You have to defend your thread, not the repealable rule in a state you do not live in. So bring on the facts you imply that you have.
> 
> My minority opinion is now going to include the fact that *most crossbow hunters are spoiled little smug inconsiderate incapable hunters that are intimidated by the slightest amount of physical exertion. Probably poachers too*.


Check the results from Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Ohio, Georgia....You are not the first to come up with the mis-informed debate concerning the crossbow & their inclusion. It gets old stating the same facts over & over again! I am very suprised you did not uncover these fact while researching your opinion on crossbow inclusion! You would not just make statements based on emotion & misinformation would you?? Fortunately for the crossbow community more & more states ARE doing their homework and are no longer allowing misinformation & emotion to drive the crossbow issue. Maybe you don't know the facts or even care to know the facts BUT the powers that be in Nebraska do!! The childish name calling is not new either...Isn't that what children do when they don't get their way?  Full inclusion in 2011 in Nebraska....don't ya just love it when a plan comes together?? Have a safe season!!


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## turkeytim

Congrats Nebraska I will be shooting my bow, xbow and rifle this 2011 season cant wait


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## cynic

Many years ago, right here on AT we had the 2 sides square off and a debate was allowed to run its course in the legislative section. A vocal set of die hard vertical crossbow users stood arm and arm and no matter what data, what statistics or number were provided they balked. When asked "1" simple question they became dumbfounded, "Please provide data from any state allowing xbow inclusion that states there has been a detriment to the resource or hunter satisfaction" NONE was provided. The long running debate was based strictly on data and facts provided state by state with xbow inclusion.. When all was said and done what was remarkable was that the anticrossbow brigades only argument was from an emotional standpoint. Thus far to date there has been NO negative impact in ANY STATE that allows there use. DNR's are starting to see and understand where the facts leads and just because some whine louder than others doesn't make for a good debate/argument.. So rather than continue to ask for data showing they are good for hunting, I petition the nay sayers to supply data that suggests they are bad..but only factual data.
Shortly after that La had full inclusion:amen: which in my opinion shows that as more and more information is set out and used to make informed decision the more states that will allow them.. I extend a token of gratitude for all the antixbowers for making it possible.. You guys keep fighting, it makes xbow advocates jobs much easier


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