# Sticky  Defining "Target Archery" as it relates to this forum.



## montigre

I'm with you 100% on this, Mahly!! 

We desperately need to trim the fat here and one way to do it may be to not provide answers the how to, basic skills, and related questions, but immediately redirect them to the appropriate forums. 

Also, masking posts as "new to target" or "my new target set up" just to have the word "target" in the thread, but then go on to ask some general question should also be left unanswered and redirected to the proper forum.


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## SonnyThomas

Seems we are pretty much in agreement.... Getting some posts/threads removed has been slow. I see the Hoyt Frankenstein bow is still with us and I noted such in my reply and reported it. I have ignored the arrow request questions, but just because you change bows and you can't figure out what arrow to use?

And it won't be easy re-learning ourselves. I mean, we've been replying to so many other forums and we get caught off guard here.


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## Mahly

I will be getting a bit more active moving things out of this form,
Some I have made comments letting people know that they should direct these types of questions to General archery...but left them here so others can see my comment.
Some older posts I'm just leaving along as they are basically dead.
Moving a thread isn't taken very lightly, and I want to do as much as possible to prevent new threads that don't belong instead of moving a lot of threads.

Keep 'em coming people!


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## montigre

SonnyThomas said:


> Seems we are pretty much in agreement.... Getting some posts/threads removed has been slow. I see the Hoyt Frankenstein bow is still with us and I noted such in my reply and reported it. I have ignored the arrow request questions, but just because you change bows and you can't figure out what arrow to use?
> 
> And it won't be easy re-learning ourselves. I mean, we've been replying to so many other forums and we get caught off guard here.


Agreed, I was sucked into the franken bow thread and am thankful you shook me back into reality... I should not have responded in it...


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## SonnyThomas

montigre said:


> Agreed, I was sucked into the franken bow thread and am thankful you shook me back into reality... I should not have responded in it...



Human nature... We want to help people. Dang us


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## cbrunson

Agree 100% 

I have also seen threads in general archery that should probably be moved here.


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## tmorelli

Agreed and I'm glad you started the convo. For about 2 weeks after this started, the conversation was at a slightly higher level than the balance of AT and I enjoyed it. More recently, it's just been another GenPop.


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## bigHUN

Agree 100%


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## CarlV

tmorelli said:


> Agreed and I'm glad you started the convo. For about 2 weeks after this started, the conversation was at a slightly higher level than the balance of AT and I enjoyed it.


Agreed.

And I like your definitions.


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## Mestang99

tmorelli said:


> Agreed and I'm glad you started the convo. For about 2 weeks after this started, the conversation was at a slightly higher level than the balance of AT and I enjoyed it. More recently, it's just been another GenPop.



^^ I Agree with Tony. I was excited and now recently I have found myself thinking that nothing has changed... 

To Help:

Target Forum to me should be advanced topics only. I like the threads where we talk about the tiny details that shave points. It is a fine line between a novice question and one that would be appropriate here... An example would be form discussions. If someone came with a discussion about explosive follow through or weight distribution between your feet that would be a topic for here. If they want to show you a picture and find out if they are standing up straight... General. Equipment discussions do belong here too, but they again are different. If you want to talk about the moon and feel of the longhorn vs the HT that could be here, but if you are putting up a poll to see where everyone else would spend your money... General. To me it is about experience and how specific a question is. Heck I would like to start a thread about blade angle and clearance issue with some of the newer bows, but that is technically a "tuning" question.


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## big cypress

guess that weeds out folks like me......then again , i doubt there are any , or any that would admit it . . .peace


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## Mahly

That would only "weed you out" if you have no questions about learning to become more competitive, or have no input on the subject".

What do YOU think the forum should be?


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## Garceau

So what arrows do I shoot with my current form (see pic) and which broadhead should I shoot? Does this Shooter shirt make me look skinnier?


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## tmorelli

Garceau said:


> Does this Shooter shirt make me look skinnier?


Finally, a question I'm qualified to answer.


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## Praeger

Mahly said:


> OK gang, it's been a couple of months now, and we are starting to see where this forum is going.
> I'd like a little input and POLITE debate as to what "Target Archery" means to you, keeping the basic rules in the "Sticky" post in mind.
> I'll go first:
> 
> What target archery is:
> Questions relating to COMPETITIVE target archery
> How to improve your game...physically, and mentally.
> Equipment only as how it relates to competitive archery shooting. i.e. Converting from a hinge to a trigger when shooting in the wind. NOT "whats a better release brand X or brand z?" "What is a good set-up for field and 3-D" NOT "what brand of arrows do you like?"
> What preparations do you do before a shoot?
> How do you maximize your practice routine for the best results
> 
> What it is not:
> A place to promote 1 brand over another or trashing a brand of anything. "What bow,arrow,rest,release etc should I buy?"
> A place to discuss basic archery skills "how's my form?"
> Pics of pretty bows, for the sake of looking at pretty bows.
> My brand X isn't working right...how do I fix it.
> My arrows don't fly right, how do I tune my bow
> 
> This is NOT a complete list.
> 
> We need to slim down the definition of what "Target Archery" is in relation to general archery. One can argue that ALL archery is target as your aiming at some form of target to hit with an arrow. That's NOT what we want here. I think by "Target" we mean competitive archery games, and questions that pertain to that specifically.
> 
> Whats YOUR view?


I believe I understand where you want this forum to go, but as long as it's titled Target Archery, you'll be spending most of your time policing it's vaguely defined parameters. The problem is everyone that shoots thinks they are shooting at a target, and that qualifies their question/poll/rant/op-ed/etc . . . as belonging in this forum. You'll politely suggest they post elsewhere and they'll say you have an attitude - what happened to "Archers helping archers?" Slam.

It reminds me of the quote by Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart when he described his threshold test for obscenity in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964). Justice Stewart said, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." 

So, while we know it when we see it, a lot of people haven't and won't. If the intent is to keep the discussion at a higher level than fundamental archery/equipment streams of thought, then consider renaming this forum Advanced Archery Techniques, or the like. Leave Target out of it. Casual archers in search of the best drop away rest will will pass it by like a Varsity Linebacker walking past the Latin Club open house.


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## Fury90flier

I quit looking at the "target" form because of all the non-target specific threads such as these. Though there can be an argument that might possibly be related to target archery, I don't see how they're not more "general" related.

just because the target face is a spot- doesn't make the question "target" archery- for example, one of these is a guy asking for a string stop...general or brand specific.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2237289
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2235825
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2237105
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2235451
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2236359


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## Mahly

Several of those threads I think are value able to the competitive target archer... Others were given direction to post the topic in other forums.


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## Mahly

Praeger said:


> I believe I understand where you want this forum to go, but as long as it's titled Target Archery, you'll be spending most of your time policing it's vaguely defined parameters. The problem is everyone that shoots thinks they are shooting at a target, and that qualifies their question/poll/rant/op-ed/etc . . . as belonging in this forum. You'll politely suggest they post elsewhere and they'll say you have an attitude - what happened to "Archers helping archers?" Slam.
> 
> It reminds me of the quote by Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart when he described his threshold test for obscenity in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964). Justice Stewart said, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."
> 
> So, while we know it when we see it, a lot of people haven't and won't. If the intent is to keep the discussion at a higher level than fundamental archery/equipment streams of thought, then consider renaming this forum Advanced Archery Techniques, or the like. Leave Target out of it. Casual archers in search of the best drop away rest will will pass it by like a Varsity Linebacker walking past the Latin Club open house.


Excellent points, I would just like to say that it isn't just what I want as someone posting/reading here... It's what the those who asked for this forum, and all others that can find use for it.

Trying to narrow the definition a little bit.


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## cbrunson

It seems most have lost interest for the original intent. Perhaps it will pick back up when indoor season gets going again.


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## Mahly

Fury90flier said:


> I quit looking at the "target" form because of all the non-target specific threads such as these. Though there can be an argument that might possibly be related to target archery, I don't see how they're not more "general" related.
> 
> just because the target face is a spot- doesn't make the question "target" archery- for example, one of these is a guy asking for a string stop...general or brand specific.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2237289
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2235825
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2237105
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2235451
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2236359


Also, please everyone note. We wanted this to be at least somewhat a self policed forum.
If you have an issue with a thread, let the poster know, or at least alert me or another mod so we can look at it and decide if movement is in order.


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## CarlV

Praeger said:


> consider renaming this forum Advanced Archery Techniques, or the like. Leave Target out of it.


This is the simplest answer of all


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## Fury90flier

Mahly said:


> Several of those threads I think are value able to the competitive target archer... Others were given direction to post the topic in other forums.


exactly my point, and a point others made in the thread that started this. Just because it might possibly apply to target archery, doesn't make it approprate for the intent of this forum.

What we need is exactly what you mention- self policing....

just ask this quesion- can this question apply to back yard shooting, hunting? if so, don't respond to the posting- simply say, please have this placed in proper forum, general, 3D, FITA




cbrunson said:


> It seems most have lost interest for the original intent. Perhaps it will pick back up when indoor season gets going again.


I believe most have lost interest because of the direction it has gone.


a rename would be wise....sure would clear up some confusion.

people lost intent because of the direction it went


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## Brendon_t

I actually came into this this sub forum as a long time bow Hunter that just finished the build on a brand new target dedicated bow with the hopes of learning. I wasnt aware I was entering the elitist corner of you don't belong here's. Last time I make that mistake. 

You may actually want to consider re naming the sub forum like was started above, It's the only way you will help keep undesirable newer competitive shooters like me out.


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## jab73

The nice part about the at forum is the availability of information.. 
The hard part is the sorting out the good from the bad information. 
Most threads go of track eventually. 
I think it is hard to limit the questions , or input into the forums..
I know I'm not a target expert, so i wouldn't start a thread there, but , some people become self proclaimed experts rather quickly..
In other instances, in our search for information, we all ask questions, we all make mistakes. I'm sure that there will always be some questions that seem appropriate to some, but not to others. Cause you just don't know what you don't know.. 
I think it sounds like a great idea. A place where a lot can be learned.. 
I think it will be difficult to keep it an elite thing for elite archers.. 
If it is successful it will be a great place to learn.


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## Mahly

Brendon_t said:


> I actually came into this this sub forum as a long time bow Hunter that just finished the build on a brand new target dedicated bow with the hopes of learning. I wasnt aware I was entering the elitist corner of you don't belong here's. Last time I make that mistake.
> 
> You may actually want to consider re naming the sub forum like was started above, It's the only way you will help keep undesirable newer competitive shooters like me out.


To my understanding, this isn't meant to be an elitist corner of you don't belong here, nor are you an "undesirable".

There is a LOT that can be learned here from anyone. And you certainly have every right to post here. Provided it is target (and I read that as meaning competition).

I don't think we want to restrict it so far that we only end up with 1 post a week. But we don't want to start another general archery forum... We already have one of those.

Tell us what YOU think the target only forum should be.


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## Mahly

jab73 said:


> The nice part about the at forum is the availability of information..
> The hard part is the sorting out the good from the bad information.
> Most threads go of track eventually.
> I think it is hard to limit the questions , or input into the forums..
> I know I'm not a target expert, so i wouldn't start a thread there, but , some people become self proclaimed experts rather quickly..
> In other instances, in our search for information, we all ask questions, we all make mistakes. I'm sure that there will always be some questions that seem appropriate to some, but not to others. Cause you just don't know what you don't know..
> I think it sounds like a great idea. A place where a lot can be learned..
> I think it will be difficult to keep it an elite thing for elite archers..
> If it is successful it will be a great place to learn.


There is also a "pro" sub-forum for the "elites".

If a topic gets off track, it's not the end of the world, as long as it started out as a target discussion, and didn't get too far off topic.

Also, you don't need to be an expert to ask a question... If you were an expert, you wouldn't have as many questions anyway.
As long as the question/thread is target archery specific, it's welcome here.

Were just trying to define what target archery IS? Everyone sends arrows at a target... Perhaps a name change to competitive target archery, or advanced target archery is prudent.

Before we get there we need to know exactly what we want to do here. 

I think equipment topics can fit in here, but not brand specific.


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## jab73

Mahly said:


> There is also a "pro" sub-forum for the "elites".
> 
> If a topic gets off track, it's not the end of the world, as long as it started out as a target discussion, and didn't get too far off topic.
> 
> Also, you don't need to be an expert to ask a question... If you were an expert, you wouldn't have as many questions anyway.
> As long as the question/thread is target archery specific, it's welcome here.
> 
> Were just trying to define what target archery IS? Everyone sends arrows at a target... Perhaps a name change to competitive target archery, or advanced target archery is prudent.
> 
> Before we get there we need to know exactly what we want to do here.
> 
> I think equipment topics can fit in here, but not brand specific.


Cool.. Sounds fun


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## Blue X

Fury90flier said:


> I quit looking at the "target" form because of all the non-target specific threads such as these. Though there can be an argument that might possibly be related to target archery, I don't see how they're not more "general" related.
> 
> just because the target face is a spot- doesn't make the question "target" archery- for example, one of these is a guy asking for a string stop...general or brand specific.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2237289
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2235825
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2237105
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2235451
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2236359


I looked at those threads and I agree that they are basically general archery questions and could go other places on the forum. But maybe the op dont want to be a general archer and wants general advice from someone with tournament experience and not every yahoo that has fired a arrow with no care where it actually landed.

I noticed that most of the op,s had low post counts and so probably pretty new to the forum use. My guess is the op's think they will get better answers in a target section than in the general section. I dont think that either of those op's meant to do any wrong with their thread. I think what you see is more a op'er thinking that thell get better answers because they think the reply's will be from more knowledgeable people. But there also valid tourmanent archery questions also. I would suggest not to be rude and dont post if you dont think the op will benifit.

Every tournament has a target, some paper and some foam. I dont mind talking to 3D people, there trying to learn just like every other archer around and their targets are just as important as any other persons. Maybe some of their questions are questions that they cant get good answers to in the 3D forum or maybe the 3d forum is more a rules and tournament specific kind of section. I think it would be bad to kick 3D questions pertaining to learning to shoot better scores to the actual 3D section. I remember having all those same questions and searching everywhere for a answer I could understand and use.

I teach people to shoot competitive target archery and some I follow to goals and we go into training plans and we shoot thru slumps and plateaus and sometimes dead block walls. Each and every time, both me and the archer learns stuff from and about ourselves. The group I can not work with is the hunter only that will not follow good shooting advice. The level of detail that Tmorelli uses to shoot at a 12 he cant see at 47yds and hit it is unimportant to them. I can not work at all with this group and any knowledge I may have can not help someone that its not important to. I am very serious about my target shooting and I also shoot 3d however I have no idea how to coach yardage judging, but 3D people have questions also as their learning to compete. 

I however think that so far it has been a alright section. I dont post if I think I am going to waste my time. I can tell when someone is seriously looking for an answer and when their not. At every range indoor and out were bombarded by new people with questions about equipment and execution and form and there really important questions to more serious and experienced archers and the new guys as well. I know for myself im always working on one or the other and we all miss. I think that drives us to want to help other people learn because we know how it feels to be on both ends of that stick. 

Rename it something that is inviting to every aspiring competitive archer in all games of archery. T

Blue X


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## N7709K

I think most lost interest for the reasons stated earlier.. The level of discussion people what is lacking and many of those who do know what they are doing are being very reserved if they participate at all. The "pro" forum is kinda worthless seeing as anything in it gets pulled...


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## Brendon_t

Mahly said:


> To my understanding, this isn't meant to be an elitist corner of you don't belong here, nor are you an "undesirable".
> 
> There is a LOT that can be learned here from anyone. And you certainly have every right to post here. Provided it is target (and I read that as meaning competition).
> 
> I don't think we want to restrict it so far that we only end up with 1 post a week. But we don't want to start another general archery forum... We already have one of those.
> 
> Tell us what YOU think the target only forum should be.


A target forum to me should cover archery topics that specifically exclude hunting and back yard poking around. 

A long time archer should be able to come to the target forum and ask, why would someone use BT released over the wrist strap they have used for 20 years. 

I guarantee that not a single person here has never made it to an advanced level of competition totally alone. You learned from someone. Totally ignoring posters who are on topic for a sub forum so vaguely called target because they are asking a question that is beneath you is rediculous.

Believe me, The what string maker, how's my form, right arrow spine threads do get old but thank god they do because those are new archers coming into the sport and spending money that keeps our shops and manufacturers in business do that we may enjoy the products also.


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## cbrunson

Brendon_t said:


> I actually came into this this sub forum as a long time bow Hunter that just finished the build on a brand new target dedicated bow with the hopes of learning. I wasnt aware I was entering the elitist corner of you don't belong here's. Last time I make that mistake.
> 
> You may actually want to consider re naming the sub forum like was started above, It's the only way you will help keep undesirable newer competitive shooters like me out.


That’s not what he’s saying. They just want to keep the brand specific and sales pitches out. Basic form and string color choices are for the gen pop, whereas here you would be asking about minor tweaks and fixes to get those few extra points.


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## Mahly

I spoke with an Admin, and was told we can change the name. As BlueX suggested, I would like to keep it inviting to most but still narrow the focus.

My personal suggestion would be "advanced target archery".

Too vague? I thought of "advanced archery techniques" as was suggested, but I think that might be too restrictive.


What is the most fitting name that keeps the forum inviting, yet clarifies what we are trying to do here... Post your ideas.


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## montigre

Brendon_t said:


> Believe me, The what string maker, how's my form, right arrow spine threads do get old but thank god they do because those are new archers coming into the sport and spending money that keeps our shops and manufacturers in business do that we may enjoy the products also.


This is true, but it is not the intent of this forum to answer these types of generalized questions. Those questions have been and are still discussed in the General Forum. We're also not discussing the content of the backyard enthusiasts who enjoy playing the sport, their concerns are also covered in the other forums. 

There was no place for serious competitive archers to discuss their issues and it is for that reason alone that this forum was created. Honestly, I am sorry your feelings are being a little hurt, but as a competitive amateur shooter, I do not make posts on the Pro forums because I am just not at that level and they deserve their own space to discuss issues pertinent to that level of competition. Same is true for this forum. It is not elitist, it is simply reality. :smile:


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## montigre

Mahly said:


> I spoke with an Admin, and was told we can change the name. As BlueX suggested, I would like to keep it inviting to most but still narrow the focus.
> 
> My personal suggestion would be "advanced target archery".
> 
> Too vague? I thought of "advanced archery techniques" as was suggested, but I think that might be too restrictive.
> 
> What is the most fitting name that keeps the forum inviting, yet clarifies what we are trying to do here... Post your ideas.


So that all forms of target archery are still covered, but the overly-broad word "target" is removed, let's consider a spin off of Praeger's suggestion and call it something like "Advanced Archery Forum".


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## Mahly

montigre said:


> So that all forms of target archery are still covered, but the overly-broad word "target" is removed, let's consider a spin off of Praeger's suggestion and call it something like "Advanced Archery Forum".


What does everyone think of this?

It does make a step from general to advanced to pro.


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## Blue X

Mahly said:


> I spoke with an Admin, and was told we can change the name. As BlueX suggested, I would like to keep it inviting to most but still narrow the focus.
> 
> My personal suggestion would be "advanced target archery".
> 
> Too vague? I thought of "advanced archery techniques" as was suggested, but I think that might be too restrictive.
> 
> 
> What is the most fitting name that keeps the forum inviting, yet clarifies what we are trying to do here... Post your ideas.


"Competitive archery forum"

This Target Archery Forum will be moderated differently than all other Archerytalk Forums. This unique set of rules will be applied to the competitive Archery Forum. 1. No bashing. Only topical productive conversation. 2. competitive Archery questions or instructions only. 3. Sponsors can post but only on-topic. only questions or/or issues directly related to increasing some ones score in a competitive archery event. No bow company bashing or needless threads that do not directly help someone learn to shoot better scores. Name of forum may change again as this forum grows.


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## montigre

Blue X said:


> "Competitive archery forum"
> 
> This Target Archery Forum will be moderated differently than all other Archerytalk Forums. This unique set of rules will be applied to the competitive Archery Forum. 1. No bashing. Only topical productive conversation. 2. competitive Archery questions or instructions only. 3. Sponsors can post but only on-topic. only questions or/or issues directly related to increasing some ones score in a competitive archery event. No bow company bashing or needless threads that do not directly help someone learn to shoot better scores. Name of forum may change again as this forum grows.


I like it and see your point, but how do you weed out those "I'm just getting into (or I am thinking of getting into) competitive archery" types of posts or those that just slide in the word "competitive" in their post in an effort to fake compliance with the forum rules and then go ahead an ask some general question that should have been directed at to the General Forum??


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## Mahly

Advanced competitive archery?


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## montigre

Mahly said:


> Advanced competitive archery?


:thumbs_up


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## Blue X

Mahly said:


> Advanced competitive archery?


I think thats perfect!

I think that the guys have done a pretty good job so far of self policing the thread. I for one have not posted on threads where I can not directly help someone. And you have done a good job of seeing a problem and taking the initiative to fix it. I think you will do a great job at making those decisions, trust your judgment, you have shown great potential. As for the others that reply on a regular basis to the posters of this thread, they have done a great job also in not replying to people whose scores they can not directly increase. I have yet to see a argument in this forum and have seen some awesome answers to questions we all still deal with. 

I can personally say that I still miss and im still looking for ways to improve and I always try 100% and anybody from beginner to pro that trys 100% are all equal whether they shoot fita field or indoor or 3d we are all equal. It is hard to feel sad for ourselves when we get to see someone else win. Any man woman or child that puts in the work disserves to be the winner and we as "advanced competitive archers" know how it feels to be on every end of every stick in competitive archery, no matter the venue or the game. 

Case in point
I had never heard of regions or TMorelli but when I read as an underdog he came from behind and captured a win, I was just as happy if not more so than if it were me myself. The man put in the work and worked thru his misses and got his reward. Thats what were all working on not jealous and not envy of successful people but to learn from people that knows to speed up each of our own learning curves.

Respect all people who have entered into competitive archery. What we see as a average archer in a competition is actually an elite archer in the percentage of overall archers on earth. A mans scores dont necessarily define him in life. Everybody learning "Advanced competitive archery" is a good worker on the job and a good man to their family and trying to aspire to do the best he can do, respect that man period whether he is 20 down or 40X or shooting up or clean. Hes just like you trying to do his best and living around a working man salary. Theres no room for drama, the war is within ourselves. Be happy when you see a man fight his battles and win his wars.

Blue X


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## Mahly

Anyone AGAINST "advanced competitive archery"?


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## Eman88

I would love to see this. What everyone is saying is that they want an advanced section. A "beyond the nuts&bolts" section. Getting into the little things that until one understands the general set-up and shot execution, wouldn't even think about. Such as taking two bathroom scales and putting one under each foot and shooting and trying to find an ideal weight distribution. Which is probably a bad example but it would be interesting to see what the majority shoots best with. The point is NOT to TEACH like nutz&boltz and others but to actually DISCUSS the fine details.


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## ride394

I was the one that started the "standing up straight" thread, and there were a few reasons why. 

1- I didn't need 500 posts telling my too lower my draw weight, shorten my DL by 15", or the "wait for n&b". 

2- I spent a lot of time in genpop getting my form to where it is and wasn't going to gain much posting there. 

3- I wanted tips and advice from seasoned competitive shooters. 

I ended up with some good advice and possibly setup some coaching this summer thanks to that threadd. That said, I will try to keep my threads more on topic in the future.


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## Double S

Fantastic thread that needed to be addressed Mahly. :thumbs_up

Questions and or issues directly related to increasing some ones score in a competitive archery event. I think those specific Events allowed in this section needs to be specified. Basic arrows, Bow strings setup, etc. would be more appropriate for the General archery forum. 
How about "Intermediate to advanced Competitive Archery". I'm just throwing out my two pennies. 



Mahly said:


> Advanced competitive archery?


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## Blue X

ride394 said:


> I was the one that started the "standing up straight" thread, and there were a few reasons why.
> 
> 1- I didn't need 500 posts telling my too lower my draw weight, shorten my DL by 15", or the "wait for n&b".
> 
> 2- I spent a lot of time in genpop getting my form to where it is and wasn't going to gain much posting there.
> 
> 3- I wanted tips and advice from seasoned competitive shooters.
> 
> I ended up with some good advice and possibly setup some coaching this summer thanks to that threadd. That said, I will try to keep my threads more on topic in the future.


Wasnt anything wrong with your thread. ill answer a man that put in the work you did all day long.Your form is perfect other than that that little issue of leaning back. Dont you dare be afraid to post a question about improving your life thru archery. Thats what mahly has been working on, a place just for you to ask good quality questions aboutr improving your scores and life. 

You have done no wrong, this is your forum.



Blue X


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## Mahly

I think we're going too run out of room if we go too long LOL!!!

Love the input! I would think that this would be below the "pros" but beyond most beginners... Intermediate??? Yeah, makes sense, but I think there would be enough overlap both ways that we would welcome "intermediate" questions anyway. Perhaps use intermediate in part of the description sticky... Like "a forum for intermediate to advanced topics discussing competition archery" or something some wordsmith can put together better than I.


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## PSE $$$ MAKER

I hope you boys don't trip and fall on your faces with your noses so high in the air.


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## Mahly

PSE $$$ MAKER said:


> I hope you boys don't trip and fall on your faces with your noses so high in the air.


Not really the type of suggestions and comments we are looking for here....

Please let us know what you want of this forum without being too derogatory.
Thanx


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## SonnyThomas

Double S said:


> Fantastic thread that needed to be addressed Mahly. :thumbs_up
> 
> How about "Intermediate to advanced Competitive Archery". I'm just throwing out my two pennies.


I could go for this. Person has his or her foot in the door and needing help to advance....And I can see this because 
when I started there weren't but one or two competing in archery in my area. I learned by "hard knocks." Today,
I am of one of maybe 3 actually competing in archery in our club of 120 members. I mean, 2 or 3 of us shoot 3D every weekend
where the rest of our club members only shoot at our club. Only 2 or 3 of us shoot ASA sanctioned events. No one shoots IBO or
NFAA sanctioned events and I was the last to shoot NFAA sanctioned events and this was back in 2006 or 7!


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## ride394

Thanks Blue X. 

I'd like to see this form be somewhere intermediate archers can come to get help and try to share opinions without having to wade through the BS in general. I also posted a thread about blade rests vs dropaways. But again I wasn't looking for "just get a QAD" or "lim driver for lyfe yooo", I was looking for valid opinions from people that have used them for more than just shooting in their back yard. 

I'm planning to join a league for my first time this winter so I come hear for the knowledge of the more advanced. The threads in here seem to be very helpful and for the most part stay on track. I think it's a great place.


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## rick_jr

As a new shooter (take a look at my post count), I'm not sure how much weight my opinion holds but my "kind" is probably where you'll have the most issues with posting in the wrong forum. I would assume target archery is related to shooting paper targets. This allows for lots of overlap, and there will be. I am actually getting close enough to a point where I think I'll be able to compete locally and not completely embarass myself so I'm sure I'll be roaming the Target forum shortly. A Target Archery subforum is where I'd look for discussions on rules, upcoming shoots, techniques, equipment, classes, branches or associations, results, sight compensation/adjustment for shooting off center targets, basically anything target related as there is no Beginner Target forum if this is renamed to encompass only Advanced Competitive Archery. It's not a place I'd look for advice or discussions on how to tune equipment, or anything hunting related, but it is a place I'd expect to be okay to ask a question about my "hunting setup" doing x instead of y while shooting competitively because I only own one bow and want to dip my toes in the water of competitive archery.

I understand the 3D forum was separated from the Target Archery forum to separate the disciplines, but why entirely different subforums? One is in ArcheryTalk forums the other in Miscellaneous forums. It seems counter-intuitive and may cause some posts to be posted in the wrong subforum. If this becomes the Advanced Competitive Archery subforum, will there be a Basic Competitive Archery subforum for beginners looking to read discussions about the basic elements of target archery? In other words, where would I find basic information on target archery? I assumed the Pro Target Archery subforum was where advanced topics and discussions on getting paid to shoot would be. Just 2 cents from the outside.


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## Mahly

I will inquire as to the length of title the forum can have... I have nothing against intermediate archers... I think it's harder to define who is what.


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## SonnyThomas

rick, the 3D forum has been corrupt for years... Here, target is target, whether paper or 3D. Other than maybe speed it's hard to tell the difference between a paper shooting bow and a 3D bow... And I don't have a problem with replying to a PM and I'll bet others in here wouldn't either. Okay, we want to help, but also keep this forum "clean."


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## rick_jr

SonnyThomas said:


> rick, the 3D forum has been corrupt for years... Here, target is target, whether paper or 3D. Other than maybe speed it's hard to tell the difference between a paper shooting bow and a 3D bow... *And I don't have a problem with replying to a PM and I'll bet others in here wouldn't either. Okay, we want to help, but also keep this forum "clean."*


I don't doubt that at all. I just thought I'd throw my opinion out there as new folks like me haven't been on the forum long enough to understand its nuances. Just to give an outside looking in sort of view as to why topics may be started in the wrong subforum and hopefully give some of the folks with more keyboard time here ideas on how to prevent or limit that in the future.


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## montigre

ride394 said:


> I'd like to see this form be somewhere intermediate archers can come to get help and try to share opinions without having to wade through the BS in general. I also posted a thread about blade rests vs dropaways.


I believe that is what we all are searching for, with this forum. But to clarify, the blade vs drop away thread should have gone into General. At the intermediate competitive level, you should already have a very good working idea of the pros and cons of each rest type on the market.


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## montigre

rick_jr said:


> A Target Archery subforum is where I'd look for discussions on rules, upcoming shoots, techniques, equipment, classes, branches or associations, results, sight compensation/adjustment for shooting off center targets, basically anything target related as there is no Beginner Target forum if this is renamed to encompass only Advanced Competitive Archery.


These types of topics are already discussed in General Archery and have been for many, many years. That is where I got a lot of my initial information. No reason you cannot do the same until you have some time under your belt? :smile:


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## Eman88

rick_jr said:


> As a new shooter (take a look at my post count), I'm not sure how much weight my opinion holds but my "kind" is probably where you'll have the most issues with posting in the wrong forum. I would assume target archery is related to shooting paper targets. This allows for lots of overlap, and there will be. I am actually getting close enough to a point where I think I'll be able to compete locally and not completely embarass myself so I'm sure I'll be roaming the Target forum shortly. A Target Archery subforum is where I'd look for discussions on rules, upcoming shoots, techniques, equipment, classes, branches or associations, results, sight compensation/adjustment for shooting off center targets, basically anything target related as there is no Beginner Target forum if this is renamed to encompass only Advanced Competitive Archery. It's not a place I'd look for advice or discussions on how to tune equipment, or anything hunting related, but it is a place I'd expect to be okay to ask a question about my "hunting setup" doing x instead of y while shooting competitively because I only own one bow and want to dip my toes in the water of competitive archery.
> 
> I understand the 3D forum was separated from the Target Archery forum to separate the disciplines, but why entirely different subforums? One is in ArcheryTalk forums the other in Miscellaneous forums. It seems counter-intuitive and may cause some posts to be posted in the wrong subforum. If this becomes the Advanced Competitive Archery subforum, will there be a Basic Competitive Archery subforum for beginners looking to read discussions about the basic elements of target archery? In other words, where would I find basic information on target archery? I assumed the Pro Target Archery subforum was where advanced topics and discussions on getting paid to shoot would be. Just 2 cents from the outside.


Well you and I are the people who can benefit the most from a sub forum with this intent the most. It's similar to being in a 3d group with a guy who's been shooting for 30 years and it's your first shoot. He's got all of the little things that you never thought about figured out. There's plenty of good ideas on the general forum but it's trying to sift through the useless stuff that makes it so difficult.


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## bigHUN

About ten years ago when I got my first very second hand bow I had nobody to ask "howto?" in my 300+ member club and over there didn't changed a lot since. 
AT had tons of great information, but many thousands of dollars I had to flush on my own to find the truth..my truth, and that may not work well with you, starters or intermediate readers...
We've spent thousands of dollars visiting big tournaments, and the result of the learning curve? Drawers full with any kind of medals you can buy for a pocket change in a flea market, but the conversation we can elaborate is totally different level what the starters just won't understand....
Please, Nobody shall feel offended if we don't answer or sending you to Gen forum, but you more than welcome and read through all the posts....
Google is a best friend whatever new is in front of you, this what the linux forum answered me back years ago when I sunk into a boring segment in my life.


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## txlineman

Brendon_t said:


> I actually came into this this sub forum as a long time bow Hunter that just finished the build on a brand new target dedicated bow with the hopes of learning. I wasnt aware I was entering the elitist corner of you don't belong here's. Last time I make that mistake.
> 
> You may actually want to consider re naming the sub forum like was started above, It's the only way you will help keep undesirable newer competitive shooters like me out.


I agree with you Brendon, I'm in the same situation as you and have posted here looking for advice. I don't think I'll be back here, these are probably not the type of people I would be hanging out with.


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## Metal Tiger

Brendon_t said:


> I actually came into this this sub forum as a long time bow Hunter that just finished the build on a brand new target dedicated bow with the hopes of learning. I wasnt aware I was entering the elitist corner of you don't belong here's. Last time I make that mistake.
> 
> You may actually want to consider re naming the sub forum like was started above, It's the only way you will help keep undesirable newer competitive shooters like me out.


I don't think that is the point to keep people out. It's just a statement of a way to move forward in a focused manner. It's just an option in my opinion.


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## Suock

I find this thread somewhat interesting in many ways. 
First some background info. 
Will be 51 in 2 weeks been shooting a bow since about 9 years old. 
Bow hunting at 12 yrs old. Took up shooting 3D for fun about 30 years ago. 
Been very shooting competition 3D for about 15 yrs now. 
My first question is who or what qualifies you as advanced?
Do we need to list our organization info (IBO, ASA, NFAA, Etc.)?
I know some here don't even think that 3D is target archery. 
The moto of Archery Talk is "Archers helping Archers" correct?
I don't think that pushing people away is helping. 
I also understand that you can get things that are off topic very easy. 
I don't know the answer but we need to bring as many new people into this sport as possible. 
Sorry for the rant just would like to see more helping. 
I try when I can.


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## Mahly

To me it sounds like we're looking at more intermediate and advanced. It's not people we wish to restrict, just some of the topics that are more suited to general archery discussion. 
Your experience will likely be more useful to someone shooting 3-D looking for advice on preparing for a big tournament instead of should I buy a single cam bow or not.


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## Mestang99

I would suggest sticking with the title, Advanced Competitive Archery. I can see where the confusion was coming from. 

I would also suggest anyone reading this. please don't take these things personally. The benefit of this separate forum will be there for everyone. We can all read it and it will be much more palatable as it should be less dramatic than the General Forum has become. Nobody is being excluded. Your years of shooting also really should not matter. If you already understand how to shoot and tune, but want to talk fine details this should be your group. If you are just getting started you are always welcome to read, learn, and grow right along with the group.

My reason for wanting this forum is to share an area with like minded shooters. Those that have competed at a higher level. Those that understand what strains and pulls you have between the sport you like and the family you love. Those that have felt the sting of dropping that last shot and getting another 59X round along with the excitement of the hard fought win. Those experiences do not make someone "elitist", but they do temper your outlook and sharpen your focus in a way a new beginner cannot understand.


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## Praeger

If this sub-forum ultimately succeeds, it will be because archers shooting at certain level will be posting the majority of the threads - presumably "on-topic", whatever that is or will be. No doubt there will be some difference of opinion on what constitutes "on-topic" and we should allow a healthy margin of flexibility, particularly at this early stage. 

To this end I would encourage anyone who self moderates here to be patient and offer a reply to an off-topic question, then suggest they look/post in one of the specific sub-forums that best suits the subject of their post. Avoid just saying ". . . post in General Archery". There are plenty of topic specific forums (i.e., Strings/Arrows, Tuning, FITA, Trad, DIY, etc . . . ). Once the "off-topic" question has an answer and a better suited sub-forum to try, let it go. If you have some gem of "off-topic" advice, send the OP a PM. 

No one wants a lecture on forum etiquette and left feeling those who want this forum are elitists.


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## Slingshot

Anything you throw an arrow at is a target....

I agree with a name change.

I also think there should be rules about treating all venues equally, some of the threads about 3d not being target archery were way out of hand. If you don't like 3d fine no need to attack people that do. 

This forum was really good for awhile, especially during indoor season. Some of the best positive discussions ever on archery talk. We need to get it back there. 

Lately it's been stagnant, due to the issues already discussed. 

This section is what keeps me coming back to archery talk


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## cbrunson

Mestang99 said:


> I would suggest sticking with the title, Advanced Competitive Archery. I can see where the confusion was coming from.
> 
> I would also suggest anyone reading this. please don't take these things personally. The benefit of this separate forum will be there for everyone. We can all read it and it will be much more palatable as it should be less dramatic than the General Forum has become. Nobody is being excluded. Your years of shooting also really should not matter. If you already understand how to shoot and tune, but want to talk fine details this should be your group. If you are just getting started you are always welcome to read, learn, and grow right along with the group.
> 
> My reason for wanting this forum is to share an area with like minded shooters. Those that have competed at a higher level. Those that understand what strains and pulls you have between the sport you like and the family you love. Those that have felt the sting of dropping that last shot and getting another 59X round along with the excitement of the hard fought win. Those experiences do not make someone "elitist", but they do temper your outlook and sharpen your focus in a way a new beginner cannot understand.


Agree 100%


----------



## CarlV

Brendon_t said:


> I actually came into this this sub forum as a long time bow Hunter that just finished the build on a brand new target dedicated bow with the hopes of learning. I wasnt aware I was entering the elitist corner of you don't belong here's. Last time I make that mistake.


No one said you don't belong here. just don't ask what color vanes or strings would look better, or questions of that caliber that belong in the general archery forum. Having said that, if I sound elitist, then perhaps I am when I'm in here. I love visiting the General forum also.

If you want to take your ball and go home, go ahead. You will always be welcome back when your feelings are healed.



> You may actually want to consider re naming the sub forum like was started above, It's the only way you will help *keep undesirable newer competitive shooters like me out*.


Not the intent to keep anyone out. Nor are we calling anyone undesirable. Simply keep posting within the guidelines of the forum directions. I (for one, whatever that's worth) don't desire to read threads of not advanced competitive nature in here. There's other places to enjoy those postings.


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## Fury90flier

haven't read through the 3 pages so this may be moot--(will edit shortly if necessary)

someone mentioned the "nuts & Bolts" of archery...that is a perfect forum.

We call it "Nuts & Bolts of Target Archery"...essentially, it will be the anything/everything that is basic to target shooting- from never shot a competition and very little shooting experience to I shoot occasionally at local shoots. All our non-hunting "general target" archery can be moved here. It will be a place that our newbie competitive shooters can have a place to go without feeling alienated.


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## Marksman35

Here's my thoughts. Change the name of the forum to something like "Competitive Archery". Because it obvious that you guys don't want to be bothered with people new to target archery. You only want to deal with those whom have been shooting competitively. Which is fine I suppose; you guys dictate what goes on in your distinct forum. But think of this a second. Why if I am new but serious to target archery would I pose question in Gen when those people are not the best qualified to answer that question. Why would I ask bowhunter the merits of blade versus drop away, to a target shooter, for instance? If you are trying to grow target archery, why wouldn't you want to give a new person the best chance of success, by getting advice from those that truly know. In Gen you have to question if advice is reliable. Here, because you guys are actively competing, your advice would be more reliable. Also you might go a long way to keeping the "elitist" image at bay if six different people didn't chastise somebody for posting what is thought to be inappropriate post; leave that for a mod. It would seem more like "housekeeping" than "piss off, we don't want you here, noob"

I was excited when I saw this forum. I thought it would be great; a place where only target archery is discussed, and those who might have questions specific to target archery could get reliable information. Instead its fast becoming a "club house" for actively competing amateur archers. In typical AT fashion, ego and shortsightedness have spoiled a wonderful concept.


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## cbrunson

Marksman35 said:


> Here's my thoughts. Change the name of the forum to something like "Competitive Archery". Because it obvious that you guys don't want to be bothered with people new to target archery. You only want to deal with those whom have been shooting competitively. Which is fine I suppose; you guys dictate what goes on in your distinct forum. But think of this a second. Why if I am new but serious to target archery would I pose question in Gen when those people are not the best qualified to answer that question. Why would I ask bowhunter the merits of blade versus drop away, to a target shooter, for instance? If you are trying to grow target archery, why wouldn't you want to give a new person the best chance of success, by getting advice from those that truly know. In Gen you have to question if advice is reliable. Here, because you guys are actively competing, your advice would be more reliable. Also you might go a long way to keeping the "elitist" image at bay if six different people didn't chastise somebody for posting what is thought to be inappropriate post; leave that for a mod. It would seem more like "housekeeping" than "piss off, we don't want you here, noob"
> 
> I was excited when I saw this forum. I thought it would be great; a place where only target archery is discussed, and those who might have questions specific to target archery could get reliable information. Instead its fast becoming a "club house" for actively competing amateur archers. In typical AT fashion, ego and shortsightedness have spoiled a wonderful concept.


To the contrary, it seems those of you newer folks are taking issue, rather than reading the posts from the guys that spearheaded this forum. YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, to ask questions and read posts that may help you with something you may be struggling with. Just keep the "Should my string color match my target bow color?", questions in the gen forum. Not too much to ask is it?


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## hart3280

While I wouldn't say that I am an advanced archer I like the idea that this can be a forum past just the basics. It give me as a beginner/intermediate to the competitive side of archery a place to go and read opinions and thoughts of people that have more experience than I do. If I feel I contribute than great if not then it gives me place to really learn more about becoming the best archer that I can be rather than having to sift through the mess that the gen. archery forum can be sometimes. Even though I feel like most my time in this forum will be just reading and asking questions, I feel that going the direction of Intermediate-Advanced Target Archery will be a direction that will allow me to find the answers to questions that I have that are more specific and by being selective in what is allowed, it will allow for us to be around people that are commited to being the best competitive archer they can be. 

To the people that are complaining about it. Just because you are asked to put a topic in the general archery, doesnt mean that you won't get the same thoughts you would get here. A lot of the people involved in this forum are active in the General forum and Im sure if you have specfics they would be willing to help through PM. 

I dont think the idea behind this forum is to keep people out, its just to be within a set of guidelines that will keep it along the right track. Just because you are a beginner doesn't mean that you can't post a topic, just needs to be something that can further your abilities as a competitive target archer...

Just my 2 cents..

Alex


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## N7709K

I wouldnt change the name- advanced isn't the right way to go. I'd look more at compiling some stickies that rundown the basics and bring beginners up to speed so to speak so they have a much better grasp an can proceed in the appropriate directions with their questions. Make a basic form sticky: have the "advanced" shooters draft up what they feel would best suite beginners and put it out; as questions on form arise they are in or can be directed to said sticky.

No good debates truly stay on topic as good questions are asked- if it's about tuning, you limit so much only talking tuning and not the needed form and equip changes


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## Mahly

Ok, we got our name change in. Let's see how things develop.
As was posted earlier, we still want to self moderate to help educate people as to the intent of this forum.
I think it is a nice gesture to answer the question on an off topic thread and letting them know that in the future, they should keep topics more in line with what this forum was designed for.
I don't think we want to keep anyone out, or send them away, just give them a little guidance as to what we want to achieve here. That way no one gets their feelings hurt, and we don't seem quite so much like a bunch of elitists.
I'm glad everyone kept this pretty on topic and even those not happy with the direction weren't overly rude.
A lot of threads have been moved. And I don't like moving them. Hopefully with the new name, and some friendly guidance from the group, we can keep from having to move to much more, and keep everyone happy.
Kinda excited to see where this goes!!!


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## cbrunson

Maybe "sticky" this thread.


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## Marksman35

cbrunson said:


> To the contrary, it seems those of you newer folks are taking issue, rather than reading the posts from the guys that spearheaded this forum. YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, to ask questions and read posts that may help you with something you may be struggling with. Just keep the "Should my string color match my target bow color?", questions in the gen forum. Not too much to ask is it?


You didn't really read what I typed did you? That wasn't what I was referring to. Its people thinking that it their job to police what should and shouldn't be put in here. I believe that's the mods job. Their EGO makes them think that they can tell people what they should and shouldn't post, when there's a person that does that already. Its EGO that thinks beginner questions that pertain to form and bow setup is beneath them. I never mentioned that peoples should post questions of "bow fashion" or other such trivial BS in this forum; that's for the Gen. I absolutely agree that this isn't the place for that. But it is SHORTSIGHTED to jump peoples tail for such things and simple questions. Because again, there's a mod for that, and you push people away or discourage those that will grow this sport. Real pros will tell you that a good part their job is fielding such questions, in the right time and place. They will tell you the best way to become pro is to make sure to further the sport at every chance by working with everyone. They''ll tell you, that you don't even have to shoot at an elite level to land a sponsorship, if you are out there promoting the sport by helping everyone.

I believe a sticky or two about beginners issues that pertain to target archery specifically would be a great idea and make everyone happy. And play nice everyone; your expected to share your "clubhouse"


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## SonnyThomas

Marksman35 said:


> You didn't really read what I typed did you? That wasn't what I was referring to.* Its people thinking that it their job to police what should and shouldn't be put in here. I believe that's the mods job*. Their EGO makes them think that they can tell people what they should and shouldn't post, when there's a person that does that already. Its EGO that thinks beginner questions that pertain to form and bow setup is beneath them. I never mentioned that peoples should post questions of "bow fashion" or other such trivial BS in this forum; that's for the Gen. I absolutely agree that this isn't the place for that. But it is *SHORTSIGHTED to jump peoples tail for such things and simple questions*. Because again, there's a mod for that, and you push people away or discourage those that will grow this sport. Real pros will tell you that a good part their job is fielding such questions, in the right time and place. They will tell you the best way to become pro is to make sure to further the sport at every chance by working with everyone. They''ll tell you, that you don't even have to shoot at an elite level to land a sponsorship, if you are out there promoting the sport by helping everyone.
> 
> I believe a sticky or two about beginners issues that pertain to target archery specifically would be a great idea and make everyone happy. And play nice everyone; your expected to share your "clubhouse"


It was noted that "Mods can't be everywhere" and would be difficult and those in this forum would do their best to keep it "clean."

Telling someone to take their question to General Discussion is about a short and polite as can be.

Again, many of us want to help and would well take a issue in PMs. Question beyond us, we would direct to another person or persons.


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## Mahly

Marksman35 said:


> You didn't really read what I typed did you? That wasn't what I was referring to. Its people thinking that it their job to police what should and shouldn't be put in here. I believe that's the mods job. Their EGO makes them think that they can tell people what they should and shouldn't post, when there's a person that does that already. Its EGO that thinks beginner questions that pertain to form and bow setup is beneath them. I never mentioned that peoples should post questions of "bow fashion" or other such trivial BS in this forum; that's for the Gen. I absolutely agree that this isn't the place for that. But it is SHORTSIGHTED to jump peoples tail for such things and simple questions. Because again, there's a mod for that, and you push people away or discourage those that will grow this sport. Real pros will tell you that a good part their job is fielding such questions, in the right time and place. They will tell you the best way to become pro is to make sure to further the sport at every chance by working with everyone. They''ll tell you, that you don't even have to shoot at an elite level to land a sponsorship, if you are out there promoting the sport by helping everyone.
> 
> I believe a sticky or two about beginners issues that pertain to target archery specifically would be a great idea and make everyone happy. And play nice everyone; your expected to share your "clubhouse"


This forum is and has been very unique in that from it's inception, it was asked to be self policed...or a better term, self moderated. 
Yes, obviously, there ARE mods here, but being a very unique forum, we would be spending all day moving everyone's posts around if no one else gave a little guidance here and there. It is just asked that people be polite about it.
No one should be "jumping people's tails", just a friendly suggestion that the thread in question doesn't quite fit this forum.
We will look at getting more posted "stickies" very soon.


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## Marksman35

I have re-read and read some of the posts here. I see I was in some ways mistaken. I didn't realize that it was expected of everyone to aggressively "hunt down" undesirable posts. Now you may say I am being dramatic, but take a second look at the various post through out this forum, then you can see I am not. If that's the way you guys want to run this forum, ok. But I still think in the process you are alienating beginners, and in small part hurting the sport. And by the way I am not new to the website at all, I have been reading it since appox '09, and I do a good job of holding around an inch per 10ryds out to 60+yrds, so I am no beginner either.


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## Marksman35

Mahly said:


> This forum is and has been very unique in that from it's inception, it was asked to be self policed...or a better term, self moderated.
> Yes, obviously, there ARE mods here, but being a very unique forum, we would be spending all day moving everyone's posts around if no one else gave a little guidance here and there. It is just asked that people be polite about it.
> No one should be "jumping people's tails", just a friendly suggestion that the thread in question doesn't quite fit this forum.
> We will look at getting more posted "stickies" very soon.


I definitely was mistaken, though I do still stand by my other statements.


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## Mahly

Marksman35 said:


> I have re-read and read some of the posts here. I see I was in some ways mistaken. I didn't realize that it was expected of everyone to aggressively "hunt down" undesirable posts. Now you may say I am being dramatic, but take a second look at the various post through out this forum, then you can see I am not. If that's the way you guys want to run this forum, ok. But I still think in the process you are alienating beginners, and in small part hurting the sport. And by the way I am not new to the website at all, I have been reading it since appox '09, and I do a good job of holding around an inch per 10ryds out to 60+yrds, so I am no beginner either.


"Aggressively "hunt down""? Being that permission was given...yes, you are being dramatic.:wink:
It isn't certain experience levels of archers that is being filtered. Just threads that don't directly relate to Intermediate to Advanced Competitive archery. Those WANTING to become "Intermediate-Advanced" are encouraged to come here....read, and learn. Post follow up questions in threads that you don't understand. Spend a little time learning the forum, then you'll know what questions belong here.
If we get some borderline issues, we're not going to aggressively hunt those down either. we all have the ability to scroll past a thread or 2 that doesn't interest us. 
We don't "expect everyone" to moderate every post. We ASK that members help guide each other (especially those new to the forum and/or haven't read the stickies) to make this a more efficient forum to learn from. Thats all. If you don't want to help guide members as to the use of this forum, it's perfectly OK. We don't expect that.


----------



## SonnyThomas

*aggressively "hunt down*" Hardly... I mean, what vanes to use? What arrows to use with a new-to-you bow? Problem with Frankenstein bow? 
These are not target related and sure stand out.....


----------



## cbrunson

Marksman35 said:


> You didn't really read what I typed did you? That wasn't what I was referring to. Its people thinking that it their job to police what should and shouldn't be put in here. I believe that's the mods job. Their EGO makes them think that they can tell people what they should and shouldn't post, when there's a person that does that already. Its EGO that thinks beginner questions that pertain to form and bow setup is beneath them. I never mentioned that peoples should post questions of "bow fashion" or other such trivial BS in this forum; that's for the Gen. I absolutely agree that this isn't the place for that. But it is SHORTSIGHTED to jump peoples tail for such things and simple questions. Because again, there's a mod for that, and you push people away or discourage those that will grow this sport. Real pros will tell you that a good part their job is fielding such questions, in the right time and place. They will tell you the best way to become pro is to make sure to further the sport at every chance by working with everyone. They''ll tell you, that you don't even have to shoot at an elite level to land a sponsorship, if you are out there promoting the sport by helping everyone.
> 
> I believe a sticky or two about beginners issues that pertain to target archery specifically would be a great idea and make everyone happy. And play nice everyone; your expected to share your "clubhouse"


I’m not gonna beat you up over this. It’s just as simple as the forum was created for higher level competitive target archery topics, “not elitist archers only”. The topics are what make the difference, not the people. It was asked that we self-moderate as much as possible.


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## Fury90flier

to some extent, marksman is about right- this is NOT a place for beginners- nor should it be.

newbies- come in and read all you want- if you have a question on a topic- ask.
newbies want to come in and create a new post- fine, just ask the right questions here.

here's one- (not a made up issue- actually one I'm struggling with right now)
I've been having problems with my hips rotating forward and down when I have a relaxed stance. This has been having the effect of pulling me off balance and throwing the shot. I've been working on keeping them level while I hold my chest down but when I do, it throws my breathing off and isnt' very comfortable--oddly, right off the bat I was shooting better....how long should I expect to train this tilting hips to become "locked in"....it's been a month now.

after rethinking this- I'm wondering if this is related to a recent weight loss (about 20# the past 3 months). I know that some of my hip movement was from the extra weight...So, if this is the case, is there specific exercises you guys do to strengthen the core to make keeping my hips level, less work.


don't know if above could constitue being in this forum but I believe moreso than- "should I use a thumb release or hinge" or "what arrows for outdoor".

not a great example but one that can give you an idea of the difference between a newbie question and an appropriate question for this forum


----------



## Looney Bin

Fury90flier said:


> to some extent, marksman is about right- this is NOT a place for beginners- nor should it be.
> 
> newbies- come in and read all you want- if you have a question on a topic- ask.
> newbies want to come in and create a new post- fine, just ask the right questions here.
> 
> here's one- (not a made up issue- actually one I'm struggling with right now)
> I've been having problems with my hips rotating forward and down when I have a relaxed stance. This has been having the effect of pulling me off balance and throwing the shot. I've been working on keeping them level while I hold my chest down but when I do, it throws my breathing off and isnt' very comfortable--oddly, right off the bat I was shooting better....how long should I expect to train this tilting hips to become "locked in"....it's been a month now.
> 
> after rethinking this- I'm wondering if this is related to a recent weight loss (about 20# the past 3 months). I know that some of my hip movement was from the extra weight...So, if this is the case, is there specific exercises you guys do to strengthen the core to make keeping my hips level, less work.
> 
> 
> don't know if above could constitue being in this forum but I believe moreso than- "should I use a thumb release or hinge" or "what arrows for outdoor".
> 
> not a great example but one that can give you an idea of the difference between a newbie question and an appropriate question for this forum


I personally feel advanced form/technique questions should fit here, but that's just me. So your issue above would fly in my book. 

I think each question is going to have to go on a case by case basis.

I mean if someone has a question that seems newbie like, but they have spent a good bit of time working on it and can articulate a well thought out question with data should it be allowed???

I mean someone can ask the same type question the same way in Gen Pop and get 10 wrong answers before someone chimes in correctly.

Or come here and get a concise correct well written answer quickly... Which would you do???

Where to draw the line in the sand is the hard part.


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## Mahly

A question like that would be much more welcome than another "how's my form" thread. 
I personally would want to ask someone with some good coaching experience... And we have that here..... as well as in other forums.
Much like the "d-loop and it's effect on hold" thread, it sounds like tuning at first, but reading it, it certainly is well above a basic beginner issue.
There will likely always be some grey area.
And even if someone suggests a different forum for the thread..that's one person's opinion.


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## johnstde

I guess I am both, newbie shooter (shot one year, took off a year, now doing target) and newbie target. 

I have always thought , clearly from this discussion, I am wrong,, that target and hunting bows, practices, rests, sights, arrows, and even targets, are vastly different. Which then means when I ask any question in this forum, I'm expecting a different answer than in general forum.

Example: if I ask best rest in general forum, I'm not going to get Sureloc 550, or Shubuyi as the answers.
I know cause I did it,, the answers were HSC, etc.. If I ask best arrow, no one in general is going to say Easton Eclipse 2712..

Earlier suggestion might be to create beginner target competition forum, that is certainly the one I belong in.


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## cbrunson

Mahly said:


> A question like that would be much more welcome than another "how's my form" thread.
> I personally would want to ask someone with some good coaching experience... And we have that here..... as well as in other forums.
> Much like the "d-loop and it's effect on hold" thread, it sounds like tuning at first, but reading it, it certainly is well above a basic beginner issue.
> There will likely always be some grey area.
> *And even if someone suggests a different forum for the thread..that's one person's opinion*.


Great point. Some moderately generic questions may get very specific quickly.


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## cbrunson

johnstde said:


> I guess I am both, newbie shooter (shot one year, took off a year, now doing target) and newbie target.
> 
> I have always thought , clearly from this discussion, I am wrong,, that target and hunting bows, practices, rests, sights, arrows, and even targets, are vastly different. Which then means when I ask any question in this forum, I'm expecting a different answer than in general forum.
> 
> Example: if I ask best rest in general forum, I'm not going to get Sureloc 550, or Shubuyi as the answers.
> I know cause I did it,, the answers were HSC, etc.. If I ask best arrow, no one in general is going to say Easton Eclipse 2712..
> 
> Earlier suggestion might be to create beginner target competition forum, that is certainly the one I belong in.


The problem with “the best arrow” question is that most everyone in the intermediate, to advanced level can make any arrow shoot well. Find the “show your 300” thread in this forum. A guy on there posted a 300 Vegas he shot with X10s. The reality is simply that there is no “best arrow” for target shooting, so the question doesn’t belong here. How to make little adjustments that make that arrow hit the middle would be more appropriate.


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## Marksman35

Sounds like a thread needs to be started, were everyone discusses what is considered appropriate for this forum and not, since its subjective, then stickie it. That way people will not have to decide on their own, you wont have differing ideas of what constitutes intermediate-advanced, and everyone has input. Then nobody has a reason to complain, nor waste time monitoring the threads. We can then make constructive posts. Not mention then issue secret decoder rings :nyah:


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## montigre

Marksman35 said:


> Sounds like a thread needs to be started, were everyone discusses what is considered appropriate for this forum and not, since its subjective, then stickie it. That way people will not have to decide on their own, you wont have differing ideas of what constitutes intermediate-advanced, and everyone has input. Then nobody has a reason to complain, nor waste time monitoring the threads. We can then make constructive posts. Not mention then issue secret decoder rings :nyah:


You seem intent on simply upsetting the works here. We do not need a separate thread,a sticky, or any other such nonsense to discuss what should and should not be posted here. That would be a huge waste of time and effort. What is needed is for you to stop grumbling, read through the posts that inspire you or provide you with some some additional knowledge and, if needed, ask appropriate questions within those posts. It's as simple as that. 

You get to learn and participate and the entire forum is not upset by your constant ranting and sarcastic remarks. It's a win-win situation if you allow it...


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## Mahly

Marksman35 said:


> Sounds like a thread needs to be started, were everyone discusses what is considered appropriate for this forum and not, since its subjective, then stickie it. That way people will not have to decide on their own, you wont have differing ideas of what constitutes intermediate-advanced, and everyone has input. Then nobody has a reason to complain, nor waste time monitoring the threads. We can then make constructive posts. Not mention then issue secret decoder rings :nyah:


I thought that's what this thread was for...


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## Suock

After reading the post in this thread I now understand why it needs to be more isolated. Some of these post just make no sence at all relating to this forum. Basic shooting questions are probably better left in the general section. I'm not sure where I fit in but somewhere between intermediate and advanced in 3D, lower in spots. Will interested to see where this leads.


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## ArcherXXX300

I think target bow pics would be acceptable in a single thread, and I think that peoples different arrow setups for certain things are nice to know personally.


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## N7709K

What denotes intermediate? Your opinion? Your level as a shooter? What are you basing it off of? Seeing as several feel higher end tuning topics are "basics" where do you draw the line? What are the agreed upon standards by the group?- because I know your feelings and mine are much different... 

Do basic form changes that facilitate higher level shooting belong here or gen pop seeing as they are basic changes- not advanced?


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## erdman41

N7709K said:


> What denotes intermediate? Your opinion? Your level as a shooter? What are you basing it off of? Seeing as several feel higher end tuning topics are "basics" where do you draw the line? What are the agreed upon standards by the group?- because I know your feelings and mine are much different...
> 
> Do basic form changes that facilitate higher level shooting belong here or gen pop seeing as they are basic changes- not advanced?


This thread has made me more confused not less that's for sure.


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## Mahly

N7709K said:


> What denotes intermediate? Your opinion? Your level as a shooter? What are you basing it off of? Seeing as several feel higher end tuning topics are "basics" where do you draw the line? What are the agreed upon standards by the group?- because I know your feelings and mine are much different...
> 
> Do basic form changes that facilitate higher level shooting belong here or gen pop seeing as they are basic changes- not advanced?


Don't think there needs to be a line in the sand. In time we will see what comes.
Obvious threads to don't belong here (selling things, which brand of _______ is best, I'm mad at ________ for making crap products, how do you paper tune, etc etc) will be moved. Those in the grey area, we can discuss if it belongs or not. Perhaps a thread on how you adjust your form to deal with extreme angle shots can be useful. A pic if someone at full draw asking if his DL looks right.... Probably not.


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## acesbettor

erdman41 said:


> This thread has made me more confused not less that's for sure.


Ditto... :confused3:


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## sharkred7

I, too have become confused as to what posts are allowed here. Yesterday a fellow asked about a problem he was having tuning his target rest on his target bow for a field setup. It was not a "beginner" problem, it was an advanced issue directly related to target archery (IMO). He was told to post in Gen Pop.

Yes, he could have gotten the answers in a few other forums and maybe even just researched the issue. If that's how this is going to run there is NO question you could ask here that couldn't be asked in another forum. Then we would have no posts in here.
I do believe the this forum has great intent and had become my favorite for quality info from other more accomplished archers. I don't want to see it come to a gen pop either and the bow bashing, brand bashing, hows my form threads DO belong else where but some latitude needs to be given so we don't chase people off. 

To have a useful, active forum we need posters and positive feed back.

My .02
John


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## N7709K

So it's a grey area on what might be intermediate material- what constitutes and intermediate archer?


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## Mahly

Don't forget the word competitive. The idea is to learn to shoot more competitively. 
And yes, the more we discuss this, the more we could restrict virtually anything.
I don't have an issue with a very specific tuning issue, we were talking more about techniques to improve our game, but some tuning techniques can arguably improve your game as well.
NOTE: just because someone suggests moving it doesn't mean they have been voted of the island.... Everyone will have slightly different opinions as to what is an intermediate-advanced thread on competition archery.
Person A) might say go to Gen arch, person B) might say great thread!

It's not the end of the world if one or 2 don't think your topic belongs... Use it as a general guide.

I think some are taking this a little too seriously.
Remember, at first only "pros" "coaches" and other "experts" were going to be the ONLY ones that could reply... It's been dialed back quite a bit from that.


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## Marksman35

montigre said:


> You seem intent on simply upsetting the works here. We do not need a separate thread,a sticky, or any other such nonsense to discuss what should and should not be posted here. That would be a huge waste of time and effort. What is needed is for you to stop grumbling, read through the posts that inspire you or provide you with some some additional knowledge and, if needed, ask appropriate questions within those posts. It's as simple as that.
> 
> You get to learn and participate and the entire forum is not upset by your constant ranting and sarcastic remarks. It's a win-win situation if you allow it...


I really don't see were you get I am trying to upset people. Is it because I inject some levity with a couple lame jokes? Just a bit of humor. And I am not making light of this forum nor the people here, in the process; just lame jokes. I am trying to expand the discussion a bit with a different view, and a couple points that might create some thought and maybe insight as to why this is going the way its going. However I am doing no good here, so I will withdraw.


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## SonnyThomas

It's not going to be easy, but eventually we'll know what is appropriate. Like a couple noted in this thread, seems some just want to argue...or be stubborn....


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## N7709K

almost anything can improve your game- what shoes you wear, hat or no hat, taping your release, etc... so there has to be a denoted go/no go and more than just a "grey area" same goes for who is deemed an intermediate shooter. learning to be more competitive? really, thats not what I remember the intent of this forum being; seeing as learning to be competitive is taught on the line at national events... The intent was to provide information from those who know what they are doing on the upper end topics- not make everyone more "competitive"... up to this point the level of discussion has been pretty low (as predicted) and the involvement of members with actual knowledge has been the same. Stating that the rationale of this forum is to raise your level of competition isn't gonna bring them around and will push away both beginners and veterans alike. It was never setup as an "elitist only" forum, several asked for that with the original vision... but it was a resounding NO due to several members getting butthurt that they "may not" be as helpful as they see themselves.

using only this thread we have examples of basic issues that are deemed acceptable and basic issues that are deemed unworthy- is a simple alignment issue something that gets let in? It was thrown out that a question about whether dynamically stiff arrows are better for target is not a topic suited for this forum- umm last i checked knowing which dynamic spine to run for which venue and why was one of the upper end tricks to stay clean for the weekend... If that is something that is seen as unworthy, why not just put inplace what was purposed and let those with outstanding credentials be the only allowed posters? 

honestly the target forum has gone as predicted- what everyone wanted isn't what they are getting...


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## Mahly

OK, what is YOUR definition? What is go, and no go?
With this discussion perhaps some things that were deemed unfit by one or more would become fit.
Where do YOU draw the line?


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## Praeger

The problem is that even among advanced competitive archers there is disagreement over where to draw the line between a basic topic, and a topic for which this forum was created. Combine this forum's well intended, but ill defined purpose with a self moderated format where these inherent inconsistencies quickly create useless friction between members experienced and novice alike, and this forum will be nothing more than a petri dish for cultivating disagreements over a meaningless differences of opinion. Arguably every topic on this new forum could go into one of the existing sub-forums. 

Just give it time, if there is a desire to discuss the finer points of competitive archery, it will happen. Stop the heavy handed self moderation. If you don't think a topic meets your standard for the forum, just let it go. Forums run in cycles, a topic nauseatingly over-discussed to you is pertinent to an evolving competitive target archer. This ridiculous sniping at each other is pointless. It produces nothing and alienates new members and long time contributors alike. 

I had hoped this would replicate the now largely moribund ArcheryLive forum. Even there you'd regularly have wacky threads and off topic questions. Those threads simply slid down the thread board and disappeared. 

It's an archery forum, not the Constitution.


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## cbrunson

N7709K said:


> almost anything can improve your game- what shoes you wear, hat or no hat, taping your release, etc... so there has to be a denoted go/no go and more than just a "grey area" same goes for who is deemed an intermediate shooter. learning to be more competitive? really, thats not what I remember the intent of this forum being; seeing as learning to be competitive is taught on the line at national events... The intent was to provide information from those who know what they are doing on the upper end topics- not make everyone more "competitive"... up to this point the level of discussion has been pretty low (as predicted) and the involvement of members with actual knowledge has been the same. Stating that the rationale of this forum is to raise your level of competition isn't gonna bring them around and will push away both beginners and veterans alike. It was never setup as an "elitist only" forum, several asked for that with the original vision... but it was a resounding NO due to several members getting butthurt that they "may not" be as helpful as they see themselves.
> 
> using only this thread we have examples of basic issues that are deemed acceptable and basic issues that are deemed unworthy- is a simple alignment issue something that gets let in? It was thrown out that a question about whether dynamically stiff arrows are better for target is not a topic suited for this forum- umm last i checked knowing which dynamic spine to run for which venue and why was one of the upper end tricks to stay clean for the weekend... If that is something that is seen as unworthy, why not just put inplace what was purposed and let those with outstanding credentials be the only allowed posters?
> 
> honestly the target forum has gone as predicted- what everyone wanted isn't what they are getting...


That perfect sub-forum exists at the top of this forum. It has two threads and 11 posts in it. That to me shows how interested “pros” are in participating here.

I think it is mostly going like it was intended just with a few threads that need to be moved, and it’s been a little slow. Restrict it too much and it will just die.


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## SonnyThomas

Mahly said:


> OK, what is YOUR definition? What is go, and no go?
> With this discussion perhaps some things that were deemed unfit by one or more would become fit.
> Where do YOU draw the line?


You started a list and some added to it. Add as we go and just reply, as we have been, Move.

Me, any item that comes down to personal preference, no discussion.
Example; Vanes. Worked at archery shop, tested every brand and make of vane. All performed as they should. I like Bohning, but AAE, NAP, Vantec, and others and all helped find the X ring from up close to 30 yards (longest distance inside at the shop). Big flu-flus also found the X ring just as easily....
Rests. Basic hold the arrow to shoot throughs, drop rests, to lizard tongues - Yes, some easier to get results, but even what I call clunkers, wouldn't have on my bow, got the job done....


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## ride394

Why not make a beginner competitive archery forum? Somewhere with the same no BS type rules where people like myself could go to learn more of the basic side of target archery. Kind of like the N&B thread that was proposed, but without N&B being a centerpoint. Then maybe you advanced guys could come help us out form time to time. 

After reading posts that say "as an advanced archer you should already know this", I find that I'm not nearly advanced enough (not that I didn't know that already). I can tell you that I have a lot of questions that most in here would think is below the intermediate level, but if I were to post it in General I would either get- a ton of non helpful answers, wait days for an actual useful answer, or just watch my thread fall into the abyss. 

It would oviously need the same type of rules such as no "what color strings" "what fletching" etc...

I just think that general is such a mess it's hard to find real valuable info without wasting a crap ton of time reading through all the dumb stuff.

I also see a bunch of people saying "this should go to general" when really it should go to "strings and arrows" "bow tuning" etc. Even some of the threads deemed appropriate for this forum should really go into one of the other sub-forums. But as you guys know those sub-forums aren't visited as much so it's harder to get a thread moving, so that's why we post some beginnerish questions in here.

Sorry for babbling, carry on.


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## ride394

And while I'm thinking about it, why not a specific "How's my form?" sub-forum?


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## N7709K

The "pro" forum was taking off slowly before every thread got pulled... So if I know how to shoot I and pigeon holed into the pro forum? Or is it more of a "only reply when it benefits me" mentality?


----------



## hooks

cbrunson said:


> That perfect sub-forum exists at the top of this forum. It has two threads and 11 posts in it. That to me shows how interested “pros” are in participating here.
> 
> I think it is mostly going like it was intended just with a few threads that need to be moved, and it’s been a little slow. Restrict it too much and it will just die.


As I stated in my thread early on here "waiting for the pros to enter here".

Still waiting?

I learned more watching and listening to Dan and chance discuss hinge releases and watching Dave Barnesdale win at Vegas than I have learned here in this forum since it was started a couple of months a go. Not to mention all the other PROS I learn from without being intrusive. No questions asked and I take to heart the advice given.

If the pros don't come here I will search them out and listen and try to apply their advice when given.

I like it here though. The chit chat is very entertaining. The individualism in the way bows are set up is very appealing to the eye.
More pictures please.


----------



## cbrunson

hooks said:


> As I stated in my thread early on here "waiting for the pros to enter here".
> 
> Still waiting?
> 
> I learned more watching and listening to Dan and chance discuss hinge releases and watching Dave Barnesdale win at Vegas than I have learned here in this forum since it was started a couple of months a go. Not to mention all the other PROS I learn from without being intrusive. No questions asked and I take to heart the advice given.
> 
> If the pros don't come here I will search them out and listen and try to apply their advice when given.
> 
> I like it here though. The chit chat is very entertaining. The individualism in the way bows are set up is very appealing to the eye.
> More pictures please.


I agree. and as long as we don't get too serious with it it can be fun. It seems some want to complicate it too much. Chips on shoulders maybe?


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## Mahly

I think we have gotten a little bit more defined through this thread.
I think an archer new to competitive shooting will have questions that relate to this forum, and are not to be shunned. Perhaps if we start seeing the same threads being started by a lot of newer competition archers, a "sticky" can be made to address those issues.
Even a new competition shooter will be more advanced than the "newbie". I don't think there are many people that look at a target bow that have never shot, and think "I think I'll buy that and enter the big tournament this weekend". If your shooting competitively, you probably know how to set up your bow to a degree.
Equipment issues can be brought here. There is a thread going on right now about spine that I think does fit the scope of this forum. It has nothing to do with "what arrow should I buy" but all about how spine affects different games, and what works for different archers.
Heck, sometimes a novice can ask a question that really makes you think...I WANT those here. 
I think for now, we have made enough changes that we should see how things go. No one is banned because they can't shoot such and such a score or haven't won a tournament. I think there is really more that we as a group agree on than disagree. Lets give this a chance to evolve...we can always do this again in the future.
Thanx for EVERYONE'S input.:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


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## N7709K

In a round about way than answers my question as to what denotes an intermediate in your eyes. 

If the pro sub going to get a pro mod? Or are threads gonna keep getting pulled as currently?


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## Mahly

They ask for volunteers.....


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## N7709K

Send them on over...


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## Mahly

See sticky at the top of the page.


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## cbrunson

Mahly said:


> I think we have gotten a little bit more defined through this thread.
> I think an archer new to competitive shooting will have questions that relate to this forum, and are not to be shunned. Perhaps if we start seeing the same threads being started by a lot of newer competition archers, a "sticky" can be made to address those issues.
> Even a new competition shooter will be more advanced than the "newbie". I don't think there are many people that look at a target bow that have never shot, and think "I think I'll buy that and enter the big tournament this weekend". If your shooting competitively, you probably know how to set up your bow to a degree.
> Equipment issues can be brought here. There is a thread going on right now about spine that I think does fit the scope of this forum. It has nothing to do with "what arrow should I buy" but all about how spine affects different games, and what works for different archers.
> Heck, sometimes a novice can ask a question that really makes you think...I WANT those here.
> I think for now, we have made enough changes that we should see how things go. No one is banned because they can't shoot such and such a score or haven't won a tournament. I think there is really more that we as a group agree on than disagree. Lets give this a chance to evolve...we can always do this again in the future.
> Thanx for EVERYONE'S input.:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


Thank you.


----------



## johnstde

ride394 said:


> Why not make a beginner competitive archery forum? Somewhere with the same no BS type rules where people like myself could go to learn more of the basic side of target archery. Kind of like the N&B thread that was proposed, but without N&B being a centerpoint. Then maybe you advanced guys could come help us out form time to time.
> .


I vote for this. I would like my questions to be answered by people doing target shooting, aiming towards national competitions, not hunters. But I will not post in this forum again.


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## SonnyThomas

johnstde said:


> I guess I am both, newbie shooter (shot one year, took off a year, now doing target) and newbie target.
> I have always thought , clearly from this discussion, I am wrong,, that target and hunting bows, practices, rests, sights, arrows, and even targets, are vastly different. Which then means when I ask any question in this forum, I'm expecting a different answer than in general forum.
> Example: if I ask best rest in general forum, I'm not going to get Sureloc 550, or Shubuyi as the answers.
> I know cause I did it,, the answers were HSC, etc.. If I ask best arrow, no one in general is going to say Easton Eclipse 2712..
> 
> Earlier suggestion might be to create beginner target competition forum, that is certainly the one I belong in.





johnstde said:


> I would like my questions to be answered by people doing target shooting, aiming towards national competitions, not hunters. But I will not post in this forum again.


So you came in here, posted these two replies that I can find, and world is all wrong.... Get over it....


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## Mahly

johnstde said:


> I vote for this. I would like my questions to be answered by people doing target shooting, aiming towards national competitions, not hunters. But I will not post in this forum again.


Here you can find answers about competition, and how to improve your game. Not so much on who makes the best sights, arrows, or bows etc.


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## Bees

Mahly said:


> OK gang, it's been a couple of months now, and we are starting to see where this forum is going.
> I'd like a little input and POLITE debate as to what "Target Archery" means to you, keeping the basic rules in the "Sticky" post in mind.
> I'll go first:
> 
> What target archery is:
> Questions relating to COMPETITIVE target archery
> How to improve your game...physically, and mentally.
> Equipment only as how it relates to competitive archery shooting. i.e. Converting from a hinge to a trigger when shooting in the wind. NOT "whats a better release brand X or brand z?" "What is a good set-up for field and 3-D" NOT "what brand of arrows do you like?"
> What preparations do you do before a shoot?
> How do you maximize your practice routine for the best results
> 
> What it is not:
> A place to promote 1 brand over another or trashing a brand of anything. "What bow,arrow,rest,release etc should I buy?"
> A place to discuss basic archery skills "how's my form?"
> Pics of pretty bows, for the sake of looking at pretty bows.
> My brand X isn't working right...how do I fix it.
> My arrows don't fly right, how do I tune my bow
> 
> This is NOT a complete list.
> 
> We need to slim down the definition of what "Target Archery" is in relation to general archery. One can argue that ALL archery is target as your aiming at some form of target to hit with an arrow. That's NOT what we want here. I think by "Target" we mean competitive archery games, and questions that pertain to that specifically.
> 
> Whats YOUR view?


Looking up target archery If find this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_archery

with that definition in mind:
I see Recurve shooters have their own FITA forum
the long bowers and bare bowers have the tradition forum
this forum leaves the compounders somewhere to discuss how to get better at Competitive Target archery
as defined by Wikipedia.

with that definition in mind and then thinking about how to get better at it.
My conclusion is: nobody here knows how to get better at it. :noidea:

So I'm off to find my answers elsewhere. What I'm finding out, 
getting better at competitive target archery isn't going to be easy.


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## Mahly

Bees said:


> Looking up target archery If find this:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_archery
> 
> with that definition in mind:
> I see Recurve shooters have their own FITA forum
> the long bowers and bare bowers have the tradition forum
> this forum leaves the compounders somewhere to discuss how to get better at Competitive Target archery
> as defined by Wikipedia.
> 
> with that definition in mind and then thinking about how to get better at it.
> My conclusion is: nobody here knows how to get better at it. :noidea:
> 
> So I'm off to find my answers elsewhere. What I'm finding out,
> getting better at competitive target archery isn't going to be easy.


Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. You get help on improving your weaknesses from those that have those attributes as strengths.
You help people that don't have your strengths...everyone "gets better".


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## N7709K

Bees said:


> So I'm off to find my answers elsewhere. What I'm finding out,
> getting better at competitive target archery isn't going to be easy.


Ding ding ding- you'll find everything you want elsewhere in a much more freely spoken environment. Shoot comps and meet people, ask, learn, listen... And don't come seeking any high level advice on here


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## montigre

Mahly said:


> Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. You get help on improving your weaknesses from those that have those attributes as strengths.
> You help people that don't have your strengths...everyone "gets better".


This only works if those with the strengths in certain aspects of the sport are willing to share instead of cutting down the efforts of those who are willing to learn.... :wink:


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## Mahly

True dat!


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## Mahly

Seeing that we still get a good few threads about what gear to buy, I have started a new thread "official gear thread".
I know we normally don't talk brand specific gear here, but we get a lot of gear questions from people wanting advice from fellow int-adv comp shooters.
Rather than shooing those shooters away, I would like to try to put all those questions into 1 "gear" thread.
Those that don't want to talk "gear" can easily avoid 1 thread vs dozens, and those wanting a more advanced answer can still ask.

Thoughts?


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## montigre

Good idea, let's see if it works!!


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## Perentie

I like the idea as well. Now to just hope that folks would move their form threads into the coaches corner. I really like this section when it is active as there are a ton of great reads in it, and for the most part do not have to filter out 99% of the posts/threads.


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## Mahly

Using this more for historical reference

NOTE: The Official Gear thread has evolved into it's own forum (Target Gear and Tuning)
It replaced the unused "Pro" forum.


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