# Aging deer measuring from eye to snout



## fatsbucknut (Apr 29, 2005)

As far as i know, Cementum aging is the only somewhat accurate method of aging after 2 1/2yrs. Some deer have long snouts like people have big noses.


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## copterdoc (Oct 9, 2005)

It's one of the measurements that you need to take (in mm) when you report a harvest in Illinois.


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

Doesn't sound very consisten as some deer have different genetics


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

Pittstate23 said:


> Doesn't sound very consisten as some deer have different genetics


I've always kinda found this hard to believe. I understand that some deer will have different markings, but I can't imagine deer having different length noses, or one being "taller" than another...IF they're the same age.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

copterdoc said:


> It's one of the measurements that you need to take (in mm) when you report a harvest in Illinois.


Oh really? So every deer killed in Ill, when you check it in, that's a requirement? Interesting. Here in Va, they just ask a couple simple questions. Which county, which weapon, buck, doe, size of buck in terms of points.


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## The Hood (Jul 5, 2002)

no way would this work

our hill deer have short snouts

and our bottom land deer have longer and bigger balls


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

The Hood said:


> no way would this work
> 
> our hill deer have short snouts
> 
> and our bottom land deer have longer and bigger balls


 Pics?


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## fatsbucknut (Apr 29, 2005)

bsites9 said:


> I've always kinda found this hard to believe. I understand that some deer will have different markings, but I can't imagine deer having different length noses, or one being "taller" than another...IF they're the same age.



http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1426496


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## copterdoc (Oct 9, 2005)

bsites9 said:


> Oh really? So every deer killed in Ill, when you check it in, that's a requirement? Interesting. Here in Va, they just ask a couple simple questions. Which county, which weapon, buck, doe, size of buck in terms of points.


 Yep. And for bucks you need to also measure the base of the largest antler, between the burr and the G1.

I do recall that every 1.5 year old buck that I have checked was in fact 110 mm from the nostril to the eye, and every mature buck that I have checked was much longer. 
The last one was 150 mm.

I doubt that it was 7.5 years old, but I am almost certain that it was over 4.5.

I really don't believe that there is ANY truly accurate aging method once a deer is over 2.5 years old.


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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

bsites9 said:


> A few years back, I was told about aging deer, by measuring from the bottom corner of the eye, to the tip of the snout. If I remember correctly, 4.5 inches was 1 1/2 years old, and add a year of age for every 1/4 inch. (I THINK those were the numbers).
> 
> Later that season, I killed a buck that we thought was 4.5 yrs old, and did the measurement, and it was right on.
> 
> Coincidence? Or is this a half decent way to do it?


Not true. Deer vary quite a bit. The 4.5" isn't anywhere close. Eye to nose is an important taxidermy measurement, and they mostly range from 6.5 to 8". An 8"er would be 15 in your system. We all know our bucks don't last that long. Deer might have longer snouts as they age, but more than likely it's not predictable.


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## copterdoc (Oct 9, 2005)

Quicksliver said:


> Not true. Deer vary quite a bit. The 4.5" isn't anywhere close. Eye to nose is an important taxidermy measurement, and they mostly range from 6.5 to 8". An 8"er would be 15 in your system. We all know our bucks don't last that long. Deer might have longer snouts as they age, but more than likely it's not predictable.


 I think that it's important that we also measure from the same places.

This link shows where it is measured for Il deer check. http://www.dnr.illinois.gov/hunting/Documents/ArcheryDeerHuntingInformation.pdf


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## SamPotter (Aug 31, 2012)

Everyone knows that the # of points on the antlers is the deer's age. Also the grayer the face the older it is...


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## copterdoc (Oct 9, 2005)

SamPotter said:


> Everyone knows that the # of points on the antlers is the deer's age. Also the grayer the face the older it is...


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: You got it!


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## copterdoc (Oct 9, 2005)

Here's an interesting video.


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## affe22 (Sep 29, 2005)

bsites9 said:


> I've always kinda found this hard to believe. I understand that some deer will have different markings, but I can't imagine deer having different length noses, or one being "taller" than another...IF they're the same age.


Kind of like all people of the same age are the same height, have the same facial structure, etc, right . 

It would take a lot of data to convince me this was even a semi-accurate way of aging. There is most likely a large amount of phenotypic plasticity in something like "nose length".


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

Quicksliver said:


> Not true. Deer vary quite a bit. The 4.5" isn't anywhere close. Eye to nose is an important taxidermy measurement, and they mostly range from 6.5 to 8". An 8"er would be 15 in your system. We all know our bucks don't last that long. Deer might have longer snouts as they age, but more than likely it's not predictable.


well, thats kinda why i said I wasn't 100% sure of the numbers themselves. It might have been different...but with the same premise.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

affe22 said:


> Kind of like all people of the same age are the same height, have the same facial structure, etc, right .
> 
> It would take a lot of data to convince me this was even a semi-accurate way of aging. There is most likely a large amount of phenotypic plasticity in something like "nose length".


well this arguement wouldn't convince me of a single thing. I know adult men who are 5'3'' and 125lbs., and I also know adult men who are 6'6'' and 350lbs. Have you seen a mature buck that weighed 80lbs.? Or a 1.5 year old weigh 250lb? No. Because for the most part, mature deer have the same bodies, so do the immature ones. I know people who have blue eyes, brown eyes, green eyes, blond hair, black hair, red hair....but for the most part, deer all look the same. 

Comparing a deer to a human doesn't work. I've never seen a fawn, or yearling with a really long snout. And I've also never seen a fully mature buck with a short, immature looking face.


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## blademaker22 (Feb 10, 2011)

I have a 2.5yo and a 4.5yo european mounted next to each other. The 2.5yo has a longer snout and the 4.5yo is broader and deeper. I'm guessing that snout measurements are about as accurate in determining age as antler measurements.


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## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

blademaker22 said:


> I have a 2.5yo and a 4.5yo european mounted next to each other. The 2.5yo has a longer snout and the 4.5yo is broader and deeper. I'm guessing that snout measurements are about as accurate in determining age as antler measurements.


 Whats your proof of age?

Pics? post em up.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

crankn101 said:


> Whats your proof of age?
> 
> Pics? post em up.


good point.


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## blademaker22 (Feb 10, 2011)

No proof. Just guesstimating based on their teeth and body sizes. Even if I'm wrong on the ages, the one with the longer snout is definitely younger. 

The pics of the teeth show the estimated 4.5yo on top, the estimated 2.5yo in the middle, and a yearling buck on the bottom. It may be hard to see in the pictures, but the teeth on the 2.5yo and the yearling are almost identical (except that the 2.5yo has replaced his milk teeth with adult premolars). The older buck has significantly greater tooth wear. The 2.5yo is a pretty decent buck for the area, and I assumed he was older based on his antler size. Unless he only ate jello and applesauce, his teeth say he is a young buck though.

Measuring from the tear duct to the tip of the nose bone on the same side, the older buck measures 6.7" and the younger buck measures 7.1"


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## Huskers (Oct 24, 2012)

Teeth is the best way to determine. Still a little bit of guesswork. 

Problem I've had.. Is that a lot of bucks won't hold still long enough to measure antlers or check of tooth wear..


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

blademaker22 said:


> View attachment 1523087
> View attachment 1523088
> View attachment 1523089
> View attachment 1523090
> ...


so which one is which? which one is the old one, the white one, or the yellowish one?


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

and, i'm assuming both deer were killed in the same area?


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## affe22 (Sep 29, 2005)

bsites9 said:


> well this arguement wouldn't convince me of a single thing.


You are correct, people are far more variable than deer. However, I would guess that you have not been weighing or taking measurements on a ton of deer to back up your preconceived ideas either. You're really willing to say that every male deer in a population will grow to the exact same size? That violates a lot of biological thought. A quarter of an inch is a tiny amount to vary and, as I said earlier, it'd take a lot of evidence to convince me of the accuracy of the method. I would also say that we look at deer through human eyes and I doubt we see small physical differences between deer.


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

affe22 said:


> You are correct, people are far more variable than deer. However, I would guess that you have not been weighing or taking measurements on a ton of deer to back up your preconceived ideas either. You're really willing to say that every male deer in a population will grow to the exact same size? That violates a lot of biological thought. A quarter of an inch is a tiny amount to vary and, as I said earlier, it'd take a lot of evidence to convince me of the accuracy of the method. I would also say that we look at deer through human eyes and I doubt we see small physical differences between deer.


I have done some weighing, but not too much. And a quarter of an inch is only a tiny amout of measurement if the scale is big. If by chance the scale I'm talking about is correct, then the difference between a 1.5 yr old, and a 5.5 yr old is a 20% difference in the scale...That's not tiny. Of course this can't be used to field judge deer. 

And again, I'm not saying this is true and correct, just asking if other people have heard of it, and use it.


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## blademaker22 (Feb 10, 2011)

The whiter one is the older deer. They were killed within 5 miles of each other.


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## blademaker22 (Feb 10, 2011)

Does anyone have any additional measurements from their own deer? I'm curious if mine are an anomaly.


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## deerhunt123456789 (3 mo ago)

bsites9 said:


> A few years back, I was told about aging deer, by measuring from the bottom corner of the eye, to the tip of the snout. If I remember correctly, 4.5 inches was 1 1/2 years old, and add a year of age for every 1/4 inch. (I THINK those were the numbers).
> 
> Later that season, I killed a buck that we thought was 4.5 yrs old, and did the measurement, and it was right on.
> 
> Coincidence? Or is this a half decent way to do it?


How old is a 5 1/2 inch from eye to snout doe?


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

Pittstate23 said:


> Doesn't sound very consisten as some deer have different genetics


I would have thought every deer has unique genetics?


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## Juneauhunt (Aug 3, 2010)

10 year old thread.


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## solohunter (Feb 22, 2005)

Most reliable method I have found is just asking the deer before shooting.


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## solohunter (Feb 22, 2005)

Juneauhunt said:


> 10 year old thread.


How old would that be in deer snouts?


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## aeds151 (Feb 19, 2016)

The Hood said:


> no way would this work
> 
> our hill deer have short snouts
> 
> and our bottom land deer have longer and bigger balls


You will have to take those measurements soon to hunt in CA. Its gettin outta hand


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## Juneauhunt (Aug 3, 2010)

solohunter said:


> How old would that be in deer snouts?


First you have to calculate angle bisector divided by the hypotenuse and solve for x......or something. 😜


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## MihajloSimsic (Aug 8, 2020)

Instructions unclear. Killed a Pinocchio spike that measured 17 years old.


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