# Let's talk broadhead tuning!!



## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Hunting season is almost here, and everyone is starting to shoot their broadheads. For those of us who still prefer to shoot a fixed blade broadhead, we are checking to make sure that our broadheads are flying with our field points. If not, some people start tuning, some people re-sight their bow in with their broadheads, and some people get frustrated and go buy some mechanical heads. I've done a lot of broadhead tuning on bows over the past few years, and have done multiple bows in the past few days. This is what prompted me to write this post. I know going into this thread, that some will say that I don't know what I'm talking about, because what I'm going to tell you will, in some ways, go against the traditional wisdom.

I did a search (the AT search feature stinks, or maybe I'm just not smart enough to use it correctly) and only found one thread that was done by Doc explaining broadhead tuning, and no disrespect to Doc, but I feel that the thread could be expanded to explain a little more about broadhead tuning. I'm sure that there are more threads on this, but I couldn't find them, and this may be a good reminder anyways. This is one of the most common questions that I see and hear about when it comes to bowhunters. To many, it's a myth, others just don't want to put in the work to get their bows right, some don't know any better, and then there are others who strive for perfection in their hunting setup. I'm of the latter. Let's look at how we can achieve this mystical broadhead tune.

Disclaimer: What you are about to read is my Opinion based on tuning many bows, not just one or two. Some other people may have had different experiences, and that is perfectly ok, as I will discuss that in this post as well. Results may vary. :wink: You'll see me say MOST, or USUALLY a lot because I don't want to say anything is 100% because if you do this enough, you will find exceptions to the rule.

First and foremost, you must have the right arrow. I don't mean, GoldTip, Carbon Express, Easton, etc etc etc, but rather spine. If you don't have a correctly spined arrow, then you will chase your tail when broadhead tuning. Finding correct spine, is a must for good fixed blade flight. There are several ways to do this, and some can be time consuming and a little expensive so I am going to skip over these methods, and go straight to, probably, the most practical and cost efficient way to determine your ideal spine. It's called On Target 2. A computer program in which you are able to input very detailed information about your specific setup, and will tell you the ideal spine for that setup. Here is the thing though, and that is you must put in accurate information, to get accurate information out of it. When I use this program, I physically measure the draw length, measure the draw weight on a digital scale, weigh an arrow on a digital scale, measure the arrow length (carbon to carbon, not nock groove to carbon), and I shoot the bow through the chrono to get a real world speed on the bow. *NOTE*- I do all of this after I have properly set the bow up, which includes cam timing, cam synchronization, draw length set, draw weight set, etc. The bow has already been tuned for specs and performance, and is ready to be tuned for arrow flight. Once I have tested all of these things, then I enter them into the program, and make sure to tell the program what type of broadhead that I am using, the weight of the broadhead, and I always make sure to turn on the hunting filter when selecting spine. The reason is that fixed blade broadheads seem to need a slightly stiffer spine to get the right tune than does a target setup that will only shoot field points. 

Once all of that is done, it will tell you what spine you need for your setup. If the spine is a little off, you can play with the overall length of the arrow, the tip weight, wrap or no wrap, and much more to get the arrow exactly the way that you need it, prior to building them. I have found this program to be extremely accurate, as long as you put in good information, and stick to the build plan that you found to work on the program.

Once you have the right arrow, then it's time to start tuning for arrow flight. There are several different theories on how to accomplish this, and there are definitely more than one way to achieve the same end result. Personally though, when doing this type of tuning, I really don't like walk back or French tuning :mg:. I know, I know, I'm already off to a bad start here with some of you. I prefer paper tuning, or bare shaft tuning here. Let me quickly explain why, while trying to stay out of an argument that is not really related to this thread. Walkback tuning and French tuning, IMO, is more about tuning the bow to the shooter, and not tuning the bow for perfect arrow flight. If all axis' on your sights are set right, if you don't have a consistent anchor, if you're not a pretty good shot, then this method is hard to do anything with. I could go more into these methods and why I don't like them, but that's not what this thread is about. When broadhead tuning, you need perfect arrow flight, and the most effective ways to get perfect arrow flight, is paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, and broadhead tuning. When paper tuning, start at about 5-6 ft away from the paper rack, and shoot. Make adjustments to get a perfect bullet hole. Then back up about 1 yard and shoot again. If you have a little tear opening up, make small adjustments to correct, then move back another yard. Repeat these steps until you get perfect bullet holes from 5-6 ft all the way back to 20-21 ft. There is no need to go past this point, because the further you go back, the more time the fletches have to correct any bad flight. I can't count how many times that I've got a perfect hole at 5-6 ft, only to move back 1 yard, and have a tear. This is why you should do multiple, close range distances. 

I start with paper or bare shaft, and MOST of the time, when these are done correctly, I don't have to make any adjustments at all. If I do see broadheads not hitting with field points after these types of tunes have been done, I can usually go back to these methods and see where I wasn't quite picky enough the first go around. I know, I know, these methods are greatly influenced by grip, torque, and form, but when I tune bows for people, I can usually see what they are doing wrong, and in a few shots have them punching bullet holes. I feel that it is easier to correct a bad grip, than to correct someone's shooting ability when that person won't put in the time to become a better shot. (Obviously not talking about everyone)

If I recheck and still have perfect bullet holes, but broadheads aren't hitting with field points, then I start rotating nocks. I did a bow for a gentleman a couple of days ago, and he was shooting QAD Exodus broadheads with the full blade. He couldn't get them to fly with his field points. The first thing that I did was go to the paper rack. He had some issues there, and we fixed them. Now he was getting perfect bullet holes through paper, but when we went to 40 yds to check his broadhead flight, they were hitting low of field points. Every time he shot the fixed blade heads, they were low by several inches. I rotated the nock, and they started hitting perfectly together. This is where I think that a lot of people mess up when broadhead tuning. 99% of the time when someone says that their broadheads aren't hitting with their field points, everyone assumes and points out that the bow must be out of tune. This is a very real possibility, but certainly not the only one. I believe that this is one reason that some people say paper tuning doesn't work. You may have perfect bullet holes through paper, just as this guy did, but the broadhead still didn't hit with field points. Well, sometimes its as simple as rotating the nock. 

I did an Elite Energy 35 today. I was shooting Slick Trick Magnums at 50 yds. The Mags were a few inches left every time (this gentleman was convinced that his bow was well paper tuned, so I didn't even bother to check that first). I did nothing but rotate the nock, and the broadheads went right of field points by a few inches. I rotated the nock one more time, and the broadheads went low of field points by a few inches. I put the nock back in the original position, and again the broadheads were left of field points. I got the paper rack out, and he had a slight tear through paper. I fixed that tear, and the Slick Trick Mags were hitting right with his field points at 50 yds. It was a slight tear, and I moved the rest at most 1/16" (probably less), but that made the difference.

Why does rotating nocks change the arrow flight? Every arrow has one side that is stiffer than the others. Some people call this the spline side, because generally the stiff side is where the carbon tube comes together, and is glued. When the stiff side of the arrow shaft comes off of the bow turned different directions, arrow flight can be affected. Conventional wisdom says that ideally we want to make sure that the stiff side of the arrow is coming off of the bow the same way on every shaft. There are few ways to achieve this. One is a spine tester, these can be very expensive to buy though, and if you make your own arrows it may not be an investment that you want to make. If you have someone build them for you, then there are people who spine test arrows before fletching them, it's just something you'd have to research. Some say that floating arrows in a bathtub works. The theory here is that the stiff side/heavy side will go to the bottom when the arrows are floating. I don't really trust this method though, as I have seen and heard others say that different sides of the shaft would turn down, when floating the same shaft multiple times. Another way, and probably as accurate as anything it to paper tune, or shoot broadheads and rotate nocks. Shoot the arrows through paper, and rotate nocks until every shaft is getting bullet holes, or shoot broadheads and rotate nocks until every arrow has the same POI. 

This brings me to the next point about broadhead tuning. Which way should we move the rest to bring broaheads and field points together. Let's say that you don't have a paper rack, or a bare shaft, but you want to broadhead tune your bow. You get some fixed blade heads, and some field points and go to the target. You shoot, and the broadheads are hitting 6 inches right of your field points. What do you do? Conventional wisdom, some online sites, and Doc's post (no offense at all meant towards Doc or any of these others) all say to move the rest in the direction that the broadhead needs to go towards the field point. For example, if the broadhead is 6" right, then they say to move the rest to the left. In my personal experience in tuning many bows, this is not the case. Let me explain. As you know by now, I am a big paper tuner and bare shaft tuner. MOST times when I have broadheads hitting right of field points I can go to the paper rack and I will get a LEFT tear. How do we fix a left paper tear? By moving the rest to the right, or by adding twists to the left yoke, and removing twists to the right yoke (yoke tuning).

Most people say to move the rest in the direction that the broadhead needs to go, and this is usually the right thing to do when the broadhead is hitting high or low of field points. Think about it, if the broadhead hits low, that usually means that you would have a high tear through paper. How do we fix a high tear? We move the rest up, or the nock point down. If the broadhead hits higher than the field point, then we would usually have a low tear. How do we fix a low tear? By moving the rest down, or nock point up. So in these scenarios, the conventional wisdom is absolutely correct ( in MOST cases). Moving the rest in the direction that the broadhead needs to go would fix the high and low impacts, just not so much on the left and right.

Remember

Broadhead impacts left of field point- usually means right tear through paper- Fix is move rest left, or add twists to right yoke and remove twists from left yoke.
Broadhead impacts right of field point- usually means left tear through paper- Fix is move rest right, or add twists to left yoke and remove twists from right yoke. 
Broadhead impacts low of field point- usually means high tear through paper- Fix is move rest up, or move nocking point down
Broadhead impacts high of field point- usually means low tear through paper- Fix is move rest down, or move nocking point up

This is what I have mostly seen over the past few years when broadhead tuning. I will say that I have had exceptions to the rule, and most times it seems to be with non-drop away rests. Whisker biscuits, etc. If you have these type of rests, then you may need to look at Doc's thread. I'm not going to say that ONLY those rests will be opposite, but in my experience, MOST times with drop away rests, what I have outlined here will work.

I'll also add here that I prefer a helical fletch when shooting fixed blade heads, and I also highly recommend squaring both ends of the arrow shafts with an ASD tool when building your hunting arrows. Another thing that is a good idea, is spin testing. It will show you if there is any wobble in the arrow. I wanted to talk more about the tuning than anything else, so I didn't get into these things much, but they are still important IMO.

I hope that this may help some out there when tuning up their equipment for this coming hunting season. Have a Blessed day.


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## Big Timber (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks for the write up. I will need this once I actually get some time to shoot. I shot broadheads only once this year out of my new bow & was hitting low and right of field points. Hoping to spend some time with it in the next couple of days.


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## txcookie (Feb 17, 2007)

My staggar back tuning is well proven.

Tinker with it till you get frustrated
Go buy a 12 pack of whatever
drink 7 or 8
begin tuning
drink the rest
forget what you actully did but enjoy a well tuned bow

Works 100% of the time 60 % of the time!!!!


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

I don't understand why when the BH hits left, you move the rest left. But when the BH hits low, you raise the rest. Why wouldnt the rest adjustment for the windage and elevation be in the same direction? Left for a right BH impact, up for a low BH impact,etc.


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## wbrandon (May 27, 2014)

My broad heads have been hitting like 2 or 3 inches high. I have moved my sight housing up and now my broad heads fly directly where I'm aiming but now FP are same gap they were before low..should I bare shaft tune?


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

07commander said:


> I don't understand why when the BH hits left, you move the rest left. But when the BH hits low, you raise the rest. Why wouldnt the rest adjustment for the windage and elevation be in the same direction? Left for a right BH impact, up for a low BH impact,etc.


Just think about paper tuning. When you shoot through paper and get a left tear, which way do you move the rest to correct a left tear? You move the rest to the right. Now, when you have a high tear through paper, which way do you move the rest to fix the high tear? You move the rest up. When you have a high tear, that means that the arrow is too nock high. You move the rest up to make the arrow more level. 

When broadhead tuning, the broadhead will impact wherever the point is, at the paper rack. For example, a right tear condition means that the tail end of the arrow (fletching) went through the paper on the right side of the point. Point left, tail right condition. So the broadhead would impact left of field points in that situation. With a tail high, point low condition the broadheads would hit low of field points. By understanding that, and how to fix those tears through paper, you can make the necessary adjustments when shooting fixed blade heads.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

wbrandon said:


> My broad heads have been hitting like 2 or 3 inches high. I have moved my sight housing up and now my broad heads fly directly where I'm aiming but now FP are same gap they were before low..should I bare shaft tune?


Try moving your rest down a little bit, and see if the gap between fp's and bh's get better. When shooting a broadhead tipped arrow it will react much like a bare shaft. When shooting a bare shaft neither end of the arrow has steering capabilities. When shooting a broadhead tipped arrow, BOTH ends have steering capabilities. When shooting a fletched shaft with a field point, the rear of the shaft has all of the steering capability. It is easy for the fletchings to correct imperfect flight with fp's because only the back of the shaft can steer. When you give the front of the shaft steering abilities with fixed blade broadheads, then it makes the fletchings job to correct imperfections much harder. The arrow will react more like a bare shaft because both ends of he shaft are trying to steer. How do you fix a bare shaft when it hits high of the fletched shaft? Move the rest down a little. 

If you were to shoot a bare shaft it would hit high, and if you were to shoot through paper you would have a low tear. Both of these require the rest be moved down, or the nocking point moved up to fix the problem.


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## wbrandon (May 27, 2014)

Good suggestion and makes sense. However my trophy ridge WB on has left to right adjustments. Can't move it up and down


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

wbrandon said:


> Good suggestion and makes sense. However my trophy ridge WB on has left to right adjustments. Can't move it up and down


Raise your nocking point. It will have the same effect.


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

Great post! Thanks for sharing


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

SlickNickel said:


> Just think about paper tuning. When you shoot through paper and get a left tear, which way do you move the rest to correct a left tear? You move the rest to the right. Now, when you have a high tear through paper, which way do you move the rest to fix the high tear? You move the rest up. When you have a high tear, that means that the arrow is too nock high. You move the rest up to make the arrow more level.
> 
> When broadhead tuning, the broadhead will impact wherever the point is, at the paper rack. For example, a right tear condition means that the tail end of the arrow (fletching) went through the paper on the right side of the point. Point left, tail right condition. So the broadhead would impact left of field points in that situation. With a tail high, point low condition the broadheads would hit low of field points. By understanding that, and how to fix those tears through paper, you can make the necessary adjustments when shooting fixed blade heads.


I understand the BH hitting right equals a left tear. Doesn't that mean the arrow left the bow with the tip to far to the right? Wouldn't moving the rest right make it worse.

On the BH low equals high tear, you moved the rest up, the direction you want the BH to go. Why not do the same on the BH right-left tear, and move the rest the way you want the BH to go. Left 

Am I missing something here?


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## Riverbc (May 4, 2011)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1606741


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

tag


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## bluestreaker (Apr 14, 2013)

Good stuff!


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## killemall1983 (Oct 14, 2007)

07commander said:


> I understand the BH hitting right equals a left tear. Doesn't that mean the arrow left the bow with the tip to far to the right? Wouldn't moving the rest right make it worse.
> 
> On the BH low equals high tear, you moved the rest up, the direction you want the BH to go. Why not do the same on the BH right-left tear, and move the rest the way you want the BH to go. Left
> 
> Am I missing something here?


I agree. Moving it in the same direction it is hitting is going to make it worse. 
Check out the link Riverbc posted right below your post. That tutorial does it correctly.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

killemall1983 said:


> I agree. Moving it in the same direction it is hitting is going to make it worse.
> Check out the link Riverbc posted right below your post. That tutorial does it correctly.


Ok, let me ask you a question. When bare shaft tuning, let's say that your bare shaft hits right of your fletched shaft. Which way do you move the rest to fix that condition?

Which yoke would you add twists to, and which yoke would you remove twists from?

If your broadhead is hitting right of your field points, most often it is because you have a tail left condition through paper. A tail left condition through paper would give you bare shafts hitting right of fletched shafts, and broadheads hitting right of field points. 

Bare shhafts have no steering capabilities, and broadhead tipped shafts have steering capabilities on both ends. They react much the same, and they will impact to the side where the point hole is in paper. Point right/tail left condition equals broadheads and bare shafts hitting to the right of field points and fletched shafts.

To fix that left tear condition, to fix that bare shaft condition, and to fix that broadhead condition you would add twists to the left yoke, or bump your rest slightly to the right. The fix is the same, because MOST times the cause is the same. Tail left paper tear. 

Like I said though, this can vary, and in my experience, most times it seems to vary with whisker biscuit type rests.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

07commander said:


> I understand the BH hitting right equals a left tear. Doesn't that mean the arrow left the bow with the tip to far to the right? Wouldn't moving the rest right make it worse.
> 
> On the BH low equals high tear, you moved the rest up, the direction you want the BH to go. Why not do the same on the BH right-left tear, and move the rest the way you want the BH to go. Left
> 
> Am I missing something here?





killemall1983 said:


> I agree. Moving it in the same direction it is hitting is going to make it worse.
> Check out the link Riverbc posted right below your post. That tutorial does it correctly.


Ok, I know that nobody here knows me or knows my credibility, so I did a quick search and found these sites from reputable companies that explain paper tuning.

http://www.goldtip.com/arrowperformance.aspx?coid=15

http://www.wasparchery.com/blog/tuning-a-bow-step-9-paper-tuning

http://www.eastonarchery.com/uploads/downloads/Tuning_Guide/Tuning_Guide.pdf

Make sure that when you look at the Easton Tuning guide, that you look at the sections for mechanical release, and not fingers.

I also found this in a google search, and this guy seems to know what he is talking about. It's a link to a thread here. Look at the last few sentences in the 6th paragraph.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1143927


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

killemall1983 said:


> I agree. Moving it in the same direction it is hitting is going to make it worse.
> Check out the link Riverbc posted right below your post. That tutorial does it correctly.


Ok, I read your post here, post #839: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1606741&page=34

And I think that I understand your confusion. What we are trying to accomplish here is getting broadheads and field points hitting together. By your post on Doc's thread, his method isn't working for you because you say that broadheads are now hitting center, but field points are still off. What you essentially did by using Doc's method and moving your rest to the left was the same effect that moving your sight housing to the right would have had. 

Instead of moving your sight to match the arrow, you moved the arrow to match the sight. Yes, broadheads are now hitting center, and they would also hit center if you moved your rest back to its original position, and adjusted your sights. Problem is, as you found out, neither of those things brought field point and broadhead points of impact together.

Try this. Assuming you have a correctly spined arrow for your setup, put the rest back to the original position, and then move it a little bit to the right. You'll need to adjust your sights as you move your rest, but the idea here isn't to sight in with the rest movements, but rather fix the bad arrow flight that is causing your right impacts. When you bump the rest to the right, don't worry about the arrows not hitting the bullseye, because they won't until you re-sight. When you move the rest to the right, see if your broadheads and field point impact becomes closer. Once you get them hitting together, then use your sight to bring the arrows back to the bullseye.

If that doesn't work, then look at rotating nocks. This is all assuming that you have the right arrow.


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

SlickNickel said:


> Ok, I know that nobody here knows me or knows my credibility, so I did a quick search and found these sites from reputable companies that explain paper tuning.
> 
> http://www.goldtip.com/arrowperformance.aspx?coid=15
> 
> ...


I'm not saying anyone is wrong. I just want to know why. When the BH hits low, you move the rest up. But when it hits right, you move the rest to the right even further.

I was looking at docs thread, and the way I understand it, he is moving the rest the way he wants the BH to go in both cases.


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## killemall1983 (Oct 14, 2007)

But the difference between moving your site and moving your rest is that the rest is changing the tune, the sight is not. 
My bow is paper tuned, and the still hit way off. so you cant follow the method of paper tuning to tune a broadhead. You have to move your rest the opposite way of where it is hitting.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

07commander said:


> I'm not saying anyone is wrong. I just want to know why. When the BH hits low, you move the rest up. But when it hits right, you move the rest to the right even further.
> 
> I was looking at docs thread, and the way I understand it, he is moving the rest the way he wants the BH to go in both cases.


I wasn't being combative with my response, just showing some tuning guides. I haven't posted much on here, and some may think I'm a newbie to this stuff, so just showing some more "credible" sources.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

killemall1983 said:


> But the difference between moving your site and moving your rest is that the rest is changing the tune, the sight is not.
> My bow is paper tuned, and the still hit way off. so you cant follow the method of paper tuning to tune a broadhead. You have to move your rest the opposite way of where it is hitting.


You misunderstood what I meant. I know that moving the rest changes the tune. 

Did moving the rest in the direction the broadheads needed to go fix your problem?
How well is your bow paper tuned?
Is it shooting bullet holes from 5-21 ft at every distance?
Is your arrow properly spined for your setup?
How many bows have you broadhead tuned?


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

So, who knows why for elevation adjustments, you move the rest the way you want the BH to go. But for windage, you move it the opposite way you want it to go. This is what I want to know. Why.


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## Southern Hunter (Apr 18, 2005)

07 Commander, if you place a pencil or pen on the table at a 45 degree angle(just for observation) now as you hold it there there slowly rotate it until it points straight. Now when you do this look at the point and think broadhead or field point and eraser as the flletched end. So what happens when you move the eraser right the point moves left same as on a arrow, the arrow rest moves the rear of the arrow which moves the point the opposite.


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## z7master167 (Aug 28, 2011)

I think, even in docs post somewhere down the line, that you try to follow your field points, maybe that is the exception to the rule.
I bh tuned my bow by following the fp, my dad bow on the other hand i had to do it completely opposite like slicknickel mentioned in his post?? Idk why it was different, but it was..


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

Southern Hunter said:


> 07 Commander, if you place a pencil or pen on the table at a 45 degree angle(just for observation) now as you hold it there there slowly rotate it until it points straight. Now when you do this look at the point and think broadhead or field point and eraser as the flletched end. So what happens when you move the eraser right the point moves left same as on a arrow, the arrow rest moves the rear of the arrow which moves the point the opposite.


I don't know. The eraser end is on the string, so the rest, especially if it's a drop away, is not going to effect the nock end. I would think the rest basicly starts the arrow in the direction it's going to go, therefore, move it left if that's the way you want the arrow to go.

And if your explanation is correct, it still doesn't explain why you do elevation one way, and windage the opposite.


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## grousegrove (Aug 8, 2013)

SlickNickel, thanks for your posts on this. 

Question: assuming one's bow and arrow and head data is fully and correctly input to the OT2 program, how important/reliable do you think is where on the scale the program rates a particular arrow in terms of spine? For each arrow it provides an optimal zone; does it have to fall in there, in your opinion? Or right...in the middle? Or on the stiffer side? 

I ask because one large broadhead (125 Grizz Trick) hit 6" left of field points even though I was getting near perfect paper tears (at 2 yd with fletches, I didn't try bareshaft). I started chasing the field points with the rest this morning, didn't finish but had already moved it way more than I'd anticipated having to. On OT2 it rates them on the lower end of acceptable. Maybe that's the problem....


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## Southern Hunter (Apr 18, 2005)

07 Commander
Okay lets try this.. take your bow and put a arrow on the string.. loosen your rest and move the rest in toward the riser (right for right handed shooters) which way did the tip move(left)? then once you have that one figured out.. with the same arrow on the string... loosen your rest and move it up what happens to the point? it goes up.. WHY? because the nock is attached to the string and it acts like a hinge or pivot point. If you drop the rest the point goes down.. same reason..the nock is a fixed point and the rest effects it and make it pivot. 

Sometimes it just is a visual thing you must do to understand....


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## walbash635 (Nov 6, 2012)

informative post +1..


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

Southern Hunter said:


> 07 Commander
> Okay lets try this.. take your bow and put a arrow on the string.. loosen your rest and move the rest in toward the riser (right for right handed shooters) which way did the tip move(left)? then once you have that one figured out.. with the same arrow on the string... loosen your rest and move it up what happens to the point? it goes up.. WHY? because the nock is attached to the string and it acts like a hinge or pivot point. If you drop the rest the point goes down.. same reason..the nock is a fixed point and the rest effects it and make it pivot.
> 
> Sometimes it just is a visual thing you must do to understand....



Just not seeing it. When I put an arrow on the string, and laying on the rest. If I move the rest to the right, the tip goes right also, just like it goes up if you move the rest up.


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## Southern Hunter (Apr 18, 2005)

no it doesnt... when you move the rest to the right on a right handed bow.. towards the riser the point of the arrow will go left. you take any object lay it flat and if you move one end to the left the other end goes right..as long as you have the arrow on the string and move the rest right the point will go left...


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## Counting Coup (May 20, 2010)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460&highlight=tuning+broadheads+with+field+points


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

Southern Hunter said:


> no it doesnt... when you move the rest to the right on a right handed bow.. towards the riser the point of the arrow will go left. you take any object lay it flat and if you move one end to the left the other end goes right..as long as you have the arrow on the string and move the rest right the point will go left...


I don't know if it's miscommunication, or if I'm missing something.. If the back of the arrow is on the string, it's not going to move side to side when you move the rest. Therefore, when you move the rest to the right, the point of the arrow is going to swing to the right.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

grousegrove said:


> SlickNickel, thanks for your posts on this.
> 
> Question: assuming one's bow and arrow and head data is fully and correctly input to the OT2 program, how important/reliable do you think is where on the scale the program rates a particular arrow in terms of spine? For each arrow it provides an optimal zone; does it have to fall in there, in your opinion? Or right...in the middle? Or on the stiffer side?
> 
> I ask because one large broadhead (125 Grizz Trick) hit 6" left of field points even though I was getting near perfect paper tears (at 2 yd with fletches, I didn't try bareshaft). I started chasing the field points with the rest this morning, didn't finish but had already moved it way more than I'd anticipated having to. On OT2 it rates them on the lower end of acceptable. Maybe that's the problem....


In my experience anywhere in the green is good. I have gotten shafts to tune a little on the weak side as well, although I prefer to keep it in the green or slightly stiff. When it comes to fixed blades, most times I believe that you need to err on the stiff side of things.

You said you had a "near" perfect bullet hole. Go back to the paper rack, and start at 5-6 ft. Get a "perfect" bullet hole, and the. Start moving back 1 yd at a time. Make sure that you have perfect holes at every distance. The. Check broadheads again. If you still have trouble, try rotating your nock.


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## talon1961 (Mar 13, 2008)

Southern Hunter said:


> no it doesnt... when you move the rest to the right on a right handed bow.. towards the riser the point of the arrow will go left. you take any object lay it flat and if you move one end to the left the other end goes right..as long as you have the arrow on the string and move the rest right the point will go left...


You might want to try it.....I have my bow in my lap right now. I nocked an arrow on the string. I moved my rest 1/4" toward the riser (right) and guess which way the tip moved....It is pointing more to the right. I raised the rest too. Now the arrow is pointed up....So strange isn't it? Since the string remains static...the nock can't move opposite the point. When you draw the bow and shoot, depending on how much, if any lateral nock movement you have, it might have an opposite effect on the flight of the arrow.


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## GR82DRV (Sep 9, 2013)

Wow, nice write up! (seriously)

Which explains why I've quit trying to tune broadheads. It took a whole page to describe and there is still no agreement that it will work every time. Yes, yes, yes, I know many will say they have down to an exact science... but it has just never worked that way for me. Just when it seems that I've got everything dialed in the smallest change in conditions or set-up throws everything out the window. Since bow hunting is Murphy's best friend that means that the odds I'll hold the tune through my hunt is next to zero.

For those who can make this or any other tune work my hat's off to you and you have my sincere respect. Meanwhile, I got tired of chasing my tail about ten years ago I decided to shoot mechanicals.


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

Awesome post. 
It got me thinking about some of the trouble I've been having so I've been paper tuning my newest bow this afternoon with fantastic results! 
Yoke tuning was the key for me. I figured out center shot doesn't have to move to get perfect bullet holes if you have a yoke. Whole new level of tuning for me. Thanks a bunch!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

bplayer405 said:


> Awesome post.
> It got me thinking about some of the trouble I've been having so I've been paper tuning my newest bow this afternoon with fantastic results!
> Yoke tuning was the key for me. I figured out center shot doesn't have to move to get perfect bullet holes if you have a yoke. Whole new level of tuning for me. Thanks a bunch!


Awesome! You're getting it figured out. Congratulations!


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## bulpitt62b (Aug 12, 2012)

Marked to find later


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

GR82DRV said:


> Wow, nice write up! (seriously)
> 
> Which explains why I've quit trying to tune broadheads. It took a whole page to describe and there is still no agreement that it will work every time. Yes, yes, yes, I know many will say they have down to an exact science... but it has just never worked that way for me. Just when it seems that I've got everything dialed in the smallest change in conditions or set-up throws everything out the window. Since bow hunting is Murphy's best friend that means that the odds I'll hold the tune through my hunt is next to zero.
> 
> For those who can make this or any other tune work my hat's off to you and you have my sincere respect. Meanwhile, I got tired of chasing my tail about ten years ago I decided to shoot mechanicals.


Once you do several bows it's not too bad. It still takes time, but to me it's worth it because the bow is tuned about as good as it can be tuned, as well as the arrows. It gives you complete confidence in your setup.


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## lebbie54 (Sep 18, 2013)

Good one.


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## tom071984 (Feb 18, 2011)

So many things here don't add up at all. I agree that if you get high hitting broadheads "low tear" to move the rest down. But if you have broadheads shooting left "right tear" moving the rest left would increase the amount of left angle in the arrows trajectory, causing broadheads to go further left and a larger right tear. And the guy that said if you move your rest right your arrow will point further left????? The only way that could happen would be to move your nock to the right!!!!


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## tom071984 (Feb 18, 2011)

I just read the tuning guides you supplied Slicknickle. They do agree with what you say, I just don't understand it


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

tom071984 said:


> I just read the tuning guides you supplied Slicknickle. They do agree with what you say, I just don't understand it


That's what I thought also. But have yet to get anyone that can explain why. I like to know the "why things work the way they do". Not just that that they do.


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

Until I see a slow motion video of a right or left paper tear, I believe the arrow is trying to compensate for being shot a little sideways from a bow the instant the nock leaves the string. In other words, if the field point is too far right of the balance point of the arrow when shot, the arrow instantly works to balance itself and the nock end kicks right. Even the string, which wants to travel in one direction, is pushed to the left and most likely helps to kick the nock right. Thus a right tear. Moving the rest left in this instance will move the balance point of the arrow more in line with the direction of string travel and thus less right tear.


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

It doesn't work that way for nock high or low because the string won't push up or down like it can be pushed side to side.


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## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

Easton Tuning Guide Page 11 and 12 says for Broadhead tuning, if BH groups right of FP you move the rest left.


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

if your broadheads and field points are not hitting together, you adjust your rest by moving it towards your field point group. in another words, you try to bring your broadhead group to your field point group by making adjustments to your rest.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

CamoCop said:


> if your broadheads and field points are not hitting together, you adjust your rest by moving it towards your field point group. in another words, you try to bring your broadhead group to your field point group by making adjustments to your rest.


I don't know how I have successfully broadhead tuned so many bows over the years? All this time, and all these bows that I've done, and according to this post, I've been doing it wrong all that time. I've done 4 different bows in the last few days, and had them all shooting fixed blades with field points past 40 yds, and all were punching perfect bullet holes through paper at every distance. It's so weird.

I did some more in depth searching, and found this thread here. If Inhad seen this thread, I could have just bumped it to the top instead of posting a new one. This BaldyHunter is a sharp cookie.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1611393


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## Matt Musto (May 12, 2008)

07commander said:


> I don't know if it's miscommunication, or if I'm missing something.. If the back of the arrow is on the string, it's not going to move side to side when you move the rest. Therefore, when you move the rest to the right, the point of the arrow is going to swing to the right.


I agree with this. There is no physically possible way for the point to move left with the nock on the string, if you move the rest to the right.

All the different opinions and technics that contradict each other makes tuning a bow the most frustrating aspect of this whole sport. I never know and have never figured out which one I completely agree with. This topic is maddening


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## Matt Musto (May 12, 2008)

GR82DRV said:


> Wow, nice write up! (seriously)
> 
> Which explains why I've quit trying to tune broadheads. It took a whole page to describe and there is still no agreement that it will work every time. Yes, yes, yes, I know many will say they have down to an exact science... but it has just never worked that way for me. Just when it seems that I've got everything dialed in the smallest change in conditions or set-up throws everything out the window. Since bow hunting is Murphy's best friend that means that the odds I'll hold the tune through my hunt is next to zero.
> 
> For those who can make this or any other tune work my hat's off to you and you have my sincere respect. Meanwhile, I got tired of chasing my tail about ten years ago I decided to shoot mechanicals.


I'm with you dude. They can keep their Muzzy's and Slick Tricks, I'll keep shooting Steelhead's and Rage's


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## Matt Musto (May 12, 2008)

I'll say one thing I know is true about tuning. If your form is off a little one day, or you tork your grip just a tad on one shot, or you start getting a little fatigued after shooting 50 shots through paper, you are never going to get it perfect unless you are a robot.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Let's think about it like this. Would most everybody agree that a broadhead tipped arrow reacts like a bare shaft?

If so, when bare shaft group tuning shows your bare shafts hitting right of fletched shafts, which yoke do you twist to pull that group over?

You twist the left yoke. 

If you have a tail left tear through paper, which yoke do you twist to fix that tail left condition?

You twist the left yoke. So then it would be safe to say that a tail left tear through paper would mean that bare shafts hit right of field points. Because the same action fixes both conditions. If a broadhead tipped arrow hits right of field points, and a broadhead tipped arrow reacts and flies more like a bare shaft, then wouldn't it be pretty safe to say that you would add twists to the left yoke to fix that right impact problem with broadheads.

When paper tuning there are two ways to fix a tail left tear (bare shaft hitting right, broadhead hitting right) condition. You add twists to the left yoke, or move the rest to the right. Both of these will accomplish the same thing (although I greatly prefer yoke tuning). 

Does this show the connection any better?


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Matt Musto said:


> I'm with you dude. They can keep their Muzzy's and Slick Tricks, I'll keep shooting Steelhead's and Rage's


I can understand your guys' frustration, but once you get your bow perfectly tuned, and flinging fixed heads with field points it gives you a confidence in your equipment. The bad part about it is, if you miss a deer, or shoot one and can't find it, there is nothing to blame but yourself. :wink: You can't say that the broadhead didn't open, and you can't say that it was the bow's fault. It's all shooter if you don't bag that buck. :embara:


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## Matt Musto (May 12, 2008)

SlickNickel said:


> I can understand your guys' frustration, but once you get your bow perfectly tuned, and flinging fixed heads with field points it gives you a confidence in your equipment. The bad part about it is, if you miss a deer, or shoot one and can't find it, there is nothing to blame but yourself. :wink: You can't say that the broadhead didn't open, and you can't say that it was the bow's fault. It's all shooter if you don't bag that buck. :embara:


Tell me something I don't know. :wink: Probably 25% of the bows you tune end up wounding deer or flat out missing, and I bet they blame you for tuning it wrong. lol

I'll keep shooting mechanicals because I don't need to readjust the rest of my tuned bow to compensate for wacky flight characteristics of many fixed blades on the market.


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## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

So what about cam lean?
I have my Elite Answer shooting shooting thru paper good at 6'. I leave for an elk hunt tomorrow. But my broadheads are hitting left about 3" at 50 yards. Elite Answer at 72lbs, 30 inch draw, arrows are GT Kinetic 300, 28" of shaft with 125 grain VPA head, blazer vanes. 
I tried to do the normal move rest right like I was taught but its not working. So you say move it left. To get it to shoot paper I had it at 13/16"
I do have some cam lean on top and bottom cams.
Unless I figure it out tonight. I will just sight in my broadheads. Its not what I want to do but like I said I leave tomorrow night. lol


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## us326544 (Nov 15, 2010)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> So what about cam lean?
> I have my Elite Answer shooting shooting thru paper good at 6'. I leave for an elk hunt tomorrow. But my broadheads are hitting left about 3" at 50 yards. Elite Answer at 72lbs, 30 inch draw, arrows are GT Kinetic 300, 28" of shaft with 125 grain VPA head, blazer vanes.
> I tried to do the normal move rest right like I was taught but its not working. So you say move it left. To get it to shoot paper I had it at 13/16"
> I do have some cam lean on top and bottom cams.
> Unless I figure it out tonight. I will just sight in my broadheads. Its not what I want to do but like I said I leave tomorrow night. lol


This is my frustration with a binary cam bow, ....I found it impossible to easily fix the lateral nock travel caused by cam lean at full draw. Without yokes you are stuck with swapping limbs and hoping for improvement or changing your form. If you are leaving tonight, one thing you can do is to lengthen your d-loop...this will clean your left hits up some.

I love the way an Elite shoots, but I need a bow to be able to tune well and found them to be hard to counteract the cam lean issue IMO.


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## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

I already have a fairly long D loop. I pretty much made up my mind if I can't get it to tune after this fall it will be for sale. Lol
I never had a problem with all the Mathews I shot. I actually had this bow tuned decent last year. But this year not so much.


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## grousegrove (Aug 8, 2013)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> So what about cam lean?
> I have my Elite Answer shooting shooting thru paper good at 6'. I leave for an elk hunt tomorrow. But my broadheads are hitting left about 3" at 50 yards. Elite Answer at 72lbs, 30 inch draw, arrows are GT Kinetic 300, 28" of shaft with 125 grain VPA head, blazer vanes.
> I tried to do the normal move rest right like I was taught but its not working. So you say move it left. To get it to shoot paper I had it at 13/16"
> I do have some cam lean on top and bottom cams.
> Unless I figure it out tonight. I will just sight in my broadheads. Its not what I want to do but like I said I leave tomorrow night. lol


I shoot a very similar set up, and had similar frustrations the other day with GrizzTricks, so I appreciate your post, as well as your dilemma. I am going to try stiffer arrows and see if that helps.

For what it's worth, IMO 3 inches' difference at 50 yards is still very very close, especially with a target as large as the kill zone on an elk. I'd say you're very close to perfect right now, assuming that it's close or closer at 20, 30, 40.

Best of luck on your hunt!


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## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

grousegrove said:


> I shoot a very similar set up, and had similar frustrations the other day with GrizzTricks, so I appreciate your post, as well as your dilemma. I am going to try stiffer arrows and see if that helps.
> 
> For what it's worth, IMO 3 inches' difference at 50 yards is still very very close, especially with a target as large as the kill zone on an elk. I'd say you're very close to perfect right now, assuming that it's close or closer at 20, 30, 40.
> 
> Best of luck on your hunt!


Thank you. I guess i was looking for perfection. I was putting the fieldtip inside the circle every shot. The broadhead was always left about 3".
Yes at 30 I was right on the money. At 60 it was 4 to 5"


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> So what about cam lean?
> I have my Elite Answer shooting shooting thru paper good at 6'. I leave for an elk hunt tomorrow. But my broadheads are hitting left about 3" at 50 yards. Elite Answer at 72lbs, 30 inch draw, arrows are GT Kinetic 300, 28" of shaft with 125 grain VPA head, blazer vanes.
> I tried to do the normal move rest right like I was taught but its not working. So you say move it left. To get it to shoot paper I had it at 13/16"
> I do have some cam lean on top and bottom cams.
> Unless I figure it out tonight. I will just sight in my broadheads. Its not what I want to do but like I said I leave tomorrow night. lol


You are very close. It sounds like you have a paper rack, so go back to the paper rack. You said that you had a bullet hole at 6'. Move back to 12 ft, and shoot through paper. See if a small tear starts to show up, move back to 15' then 21' and see if a small tear starts to open up. I would suspect that you'll see a VERY small right tear. Bump your rest to the left in 1/64" increments because you are super close. Get that tear perfect at those multiple distances, and recheck broadheads at 50 yds. 

OnTarget 2 shows your arrows ever so slightly weak. Just barely, but the bow should tune there. Try what I said above and let me know your results.


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

SlickNickel VERY nice right up! I have to agree with you that I have had more luck move the rest in the opposite direction of FPs. I thought about it the same way as you did...broadheads hitting right equal a left tear in paper. On paper you move the rest right. Glad I'm not the only one who had to go against traditional wisdom. I've had to do the same with bareshafts tail left/tail right etc.



GR82DRV said:


> Wow, nice write up! (seriously)
> 
> Which explains why I've quit trying to tune broadheads. It took a whole page to describe and there is still no agreement that it will work every time. Yes, yes, yes, I know many will say they have down to an exact science... but it has just never worked that way for me. Just when it seems that I've got everything dialed in the smallest change in conditions or set-up throws everything out the window. Since bow hunting is Murphy's best friend that means that the odds I'll hold the tune through my hunt is next to zero.
> 
> For those who can make this or any other tune work my hat's off to you and you have my sincere respect. Meanwhile, I got tired of chasing my tail about ten years ago I decided to shoot mechanicals.




Amen! Right there with ya brother!

I was FINALLY able to get broadhead and bareshaft tuned the other day. I found out it was my grip, but I'm still shooting my NAP Killzones. I have much more confidence in myself knowing that it is indeed tuned and I'm not using mechanicals for a bandaid anymore....

BUT here is the thing though...mechanicals are MUCH more forgiving if you accidently torque the bow on the shot. The fixed blade will magnify the bad shot and make it worse! Though I was able to get my bow bareshaft/broadhead tuned, I still have more confidence in mechanicals. I need all the forgiveness I can get in a hunting situation because we all know we don't always make a good shot 100% of the time.

So I will stick with mechanicals as well.


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## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

grousegrove said:


> I shoot a very similar set up, and had similar frustrations the other day with GrizzTricks, so I appreciate your post, as well as your dilemma. I am going to try stiffer arrows and see if that helps.
> 
> For what it's worth, IMO 3 inches' difference at 50 yards is still very very close, especially with a target as large as the kill zone on an elk. I'd say you're very close to perfect right now, assuming that it's close or closer at 20, 30, 40.
> 
> Best of luck on your hunt!


Actually I dont have a paper rack, I was wrong on the shaft length. Its 27 3/4". I am surprised I am weak spined. If I shorten the shaft a little more I wonder if I can pull it in? I could go to a 100 grain tip but dont want to do that. If I go up to a 250 spine arrow that will put me in the 500 grain range as well. I am wanting to stay in the 450 range with a 125 tip.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> Actually I dont have a paper rack, I was wrong on the shaft length. Its 27 3/4". I am surprised I am weak spined. If I shorten the shaft a little more I wonder if I can pull it in? I could go to a 100 grain tip but dont want to do that. If I go up to a 250 spine arrow that will put me in the 500 grain range as well. I am wanting to stay in the 450 range with a 125 tip.


I put in 28" shaft, that 1/4" will help a little. Like I said though, I don't think that you're weak enough that it wouldn't tune though. Even though you don't have a paper rack, make very small adjustments as I described above, and see if they start grouping together.


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## V-TRAIN (Feb 27, 2009)

Riverbc said:


> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1606741


LOL, you beat me to it.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

V-TRAIN said:


> LOL, you beat me to it.


LOL, I don't understand why everyone keeps posting that link. I acknowledged that thread in the OP. If you read the OP, my tuning and Doc's are quite different. Not saying that Doc's procedure is always wrong, I'm just sharing what I have seen in tuning many bows over the years.


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

I shoot field tips for practice, I hunt with Broad heads so when hunting season comes I just adjust my site a bit and the heck with all that crap. I guess it would matter if some one uses their bow for say 3d and hunts with the same bow on weekends or such.


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## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

buckeyboy said:


> I shoot field tips for practice, I hunt with Broad heads so when hunting season comes I just adjust my site a bit and the heck with all that crap. I guess it would matter if some one uses their bow for say 3d and hunts with the same bow on weekends or such.


If your bow is broadhead tuned its shooting to the best of its abilities.


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## Bob H in NH (Aug 20, 2002)

The Phantom said:


> Easton Tuning Guide Page 11 and 12 says for Broadhead tuning, if BH groups right of FP you move the rest left.


Exactly, the Easton tuning guide contradicts the original poster here. I'm still confused......

Not saying it's right, but seems strange that the process is OPPOSITE to fix high/low flight than right/left flight of the BH. 

I do know that the other night I moved the rest towards the FP slightly and I swore the distance between got bigger, at which point (before this thread) I just chalked it up to me getting tired and put the bow down. I'll be finishing it this weekend and rest assured I'll try moving it in whatever stinking direction gets me the best flight!

But the engineer in me would like to understand why the seemingly contradictory directions


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## Ryno785 (Oct 14, 2011)

us326544 said:


> This is my frustration with a binary cam bow, ....I found it impossible to easily fix the lateral nock travel caused by cam lean at full draw. Without yokes you are stuck with swapping limbs and hoping for improvement or changing your form. If you are leaving tonight, one thing you can do is to lengthen your d-loop...this will clean your left hits up some.
> 
> I love the way an Elite shoots, but I need a bow to be able to tune well and found them to be hard to counteract the cam lean issue IMO.


This why I sold my Elite. I got a Prime and it is the only binary system I will ever shoot again. There parallel cam design is legit. If it wasn't for Prime, I was going back to Bowtech or something with a split yolk.


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## BOW TECH MAN (Mar 28, 2011)

Tag


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## Ryno785 (Oct 14, 2011)

Both Slick Trick and Wasp say to move your the opposite direction that your broadheads are impacting......


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## grousegrove (Aug 8, 2013)

us326544 said:


> This is my frustration with a binary cam bow, ....I found it impossible to easily fix the lateral nock travel caused by cam lean at full draw. Without yokes you are stuck with swapping limbs and hoping for improvement or changing your form. If you are leaving tonight, one thing you can do is to lengthen your d-loop...this will clean your left hits up some.
> 
> I love the way an Elite shoots, but I need a bow to be able to tune well and found them to be hard to counteract the cam lean issue IMO.


Well, I understand that (I think) but I stuck with it and I'm very close to finally having my Elite E32 putting my 125gr GrizzTricks with my field points. The turning point was I bought some stiffer arrows, and just spent hours tuning it. Here's about where things stand right now at 30 yards:









The fixed blade is the one an inch or so to the northeast.

I am no expert, and the e process admittedly gave me fits. But I was determined, and of course once I took my bow stupidly out of tune with my old arrows/heads so close to the season, I really had no choice. I am tired and sweaty now and I have come down with a wicked cold, so I'm going to quit for now and sit down with a box of Kleenex and watch "meat eater" and have a frosty beverage in celebration. Perhaps two.


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## Fulldraw1972 (Jan 6, 2012)

SlickNickel said:


> I put in 28" shaft, that 1/4" will help a little. Like I said though, I don't think that you're weak enough that it wouldn't tune though. Even though you don't have a paper rack, make very small adjustments as I described above, and see if they start grouping together.


I ended up getting it to within an inch at 60. I ended up moving my rest maybe 1/64 to the right.


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## Bob H in NH (Aug 20, 2002)

Bob H in NH said:


> Exactly, the Easton tuning guide contradicts the original poster here. I'm still confused......
> 
> Not saying it's right, but seems strange that the process is OPPOSITE to fix high/low flight than right/left flight of the BH.
> 
> ...


Just to follow up on this. I finished last night, sure enough, I am still confused, but all set! 

- 20 yds, BH impacting about 4 inches dead left of field points. Following most of the documented tuning methods and moving the rest right towards the field points small amount.

- next shots, BH impacting about 6 inches dead left. Yes following easton's tuning guide made it worse!

- Figured what the heck, worth a shot!. Moved the rest left, towards the BH, past where it was originally. Shoot again

- Now 2 inches apart. Yes the logical move made it worse, the illogical move made it better!

- Repeat, move again. Slapped arrow shafts at 20 yds. Adjusted sight and moved to 30.

- Left again, but BARELY. Moved rest about 1/64th left, repeat. 4 arrow group, 2 fp, 2 bh, Shot two groups at 30. Walking to target can't tell which are which any longer until I pull them

- Back up to 50. Repeat. Same story, group falling apart, but that was me, but no discernable pattern, in other words, they all group together.


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## carcus (Dec 10, 2005)

Fulldraw1972 said:


> So what about cam lean?
> I have my Elite Answer shooting shooting thru paper good at 6'. I leave for an elk hunt tomorrow. But my broadheads are hitting left about 3" at 50 yards. Elite Answer at 72lbs, 30 inch draw, arrows are GT Kinetic 300, 28" of shaft with 125 grain VPA head, blazer vanes.
> I tried to do the normal move rest right like I was taught but its not working. So you say move it left. To get it to shoot paper I had it at 13/16"
> I do have some cam lean on top and bottom cams.
> Unless I figure it out tonight. I will just sight in my broadheads. Its not what I want to do but like I said I leave tomorrow night. lol


Good enough, move your sight and go hunting, you may end up making it worse!


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

My hunting partner had a bad right tear through paper and the only move that helped was moving rest right. He had to go way right for a bullet hole but now he's good at any distance and his broadheads group with field tips.

I had a bad right and low tear when I started. Set my center shot and leveled my arrow, then I tried yoke tuning. 1 1/2 twists out of left and 2 in right gave me perfect bullet holes at any distance. Never had to move my rest from center shot. Now my broadheads and field tips are within an inch at 50 yds. I'll personally never own another bow without a yoke.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Bob H in NH said:


> Just to follow up on this. I finished last night, sure enough, I am still confused, but all set!
> 
> - 20 yds, BH impacting about 4 inches dead left of field points. Following most of the documented tuning methods and moving the rest right towards the field points small amount.
> 
> ...


Great! I'm glad that you got it all worked out. I understand your point about it seeming illogical, and honestly I can't explain the science behind why we have to move the rest the way that we do. It is logical though that when the arrow is coming off the bow point right then we have a left tear through paper. Most times when we have that left tear/point right condition the broadhead is going to impact to the right. Same with a right tear/point left condition, as the broadhead would impact left.

To fix that left tear we move the rest to the right or we add twists the left yoke and remove twists from the right yoke. 
To fix that right tear we move the rest left or add twists to the right yoke and remove twists from the left yoke.

I'm glad that it worked for you, and that you weren't close minded to trying what I have been saying. Some on here seem to think that I just pulled this info out of thin air, and they don't realize that this comes from experience broadhead tuning many bows.


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## Bob H in NH (Aug 20, 2002)

I've been messing with bows long enough to know, if what you did made it worse, go the other way - damned what the books say!

I also have a floating yoke, so can't really twist those!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

bplayer405 said:


> My hunting partner had a bad right tear through paper and the only move that helped was moving rest right. He had to go way right for a bullet hole but now he's good at any distance and his broadheads group with field tips.
> 
> I had a bad right and low tear when I started. Set my center shot and leveled my arrow, then I tried yoke tuning. 1 1/2 twists out of left and 2 in right gave me perfect bullet holes at any distance. Never had to move my rest from center shot. Now my broadheads and field tips are within an inch at 50 yds. I'll personally never own another bow without a yoke.


Nice job. If your shooting a hybrid cam system, or a dual cam system, remember to recheck your cam synch after adjusting the yokes. It can get cams slightly out of synch because you are slightly changing the length of the buss cable. This is why we usually take out the same number of twists from one yoke as we add to the other, as this helps keep the cams in synch. It doesn't always work that way though, so you should always recheck your cam synchronization after yoke tuning.


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks and I agree to a point. I would rather have a perfect bullet hole above everything. Top cam is slightly advanced where Hoyt and my pro shop says to make them the same. The bow is an Agenda 7 and don't know or care what Bear says about cam sync. It shoots too perfect now to change it!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

bplayer405 said:


> Thanks and I agree to a point. I would rather have a perfect bullet hole above everything. Top cam is slightly advanced where Hoyt and my pro shop says to make them the same. The bow is an Agenda 7 and don't know or care what Bear says about cam sync. It shoots too perfect now to change it!


Top cam slightly advanced (1/8" or so) isn't a bad thing on hybrid cams.


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## smokecity (Jul 13, 2010)

Great info. I'm amazed how many people want to argue even with the disclaimers !! Lol

I used your method to fix a left tear I was getting and it worked to perfection. Had to add a few here.. Take a few off here.. Add one, take one.. But it worked awesome!!

For anyone who is doing this and getting frustrated I can say taking a break can really help 

Sometimes we are the problem!

Thanks again man


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

Bob H in NH said:


> I've been messing with bows long enough to know, if what you did made it worse, go the other way - damned what the books say!
> 
> I also have a floating yoke, so can't really twist those!


I don't understand why the industry hasn't made floating yokes standard. I love them on my ChillR. Just set the centershot and go. I understand some people like complete control of it, but it is a heck of a lot easier for me. One less thing to worry about.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

smokecity said:


> Great info. I'm amazed how many people want to argue even with the disclaimers !! Lol
> 
> I used your method to fix a left tear I was getting and it worked to perfection. Had to add a few here.. Take a few off here.. Add one, take one.. But it worked awesome!!
> 
> ...


Nice job. I'm glad you got it worked out. A well tuned bow is worth the work, if for nothing else peace of mind.


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

SlickNickel said:


> I don't know how I have successfully broadhead tuned so many bows over the years? All this time, and all these bows that I've done, and according to this post, I've been doing it wrong all that time. I've done 4 different bows in the last few days, and had them all shooting fixed blades with field points past 40 yds, and all were punching perfect bullet holes through paper at every distance. It's so weird.
> 
> I did some more in depth searching, and found this thread here. If Inhad seen this thread, I could have just bumped it to the top instead of posting a new one. This BaldyHunter is a sharp cookie.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1611393


 when you are putting in and taking out twist in your yoke, you are not broadhead tuning, you are yoke tuning. being as intelligent as you claim to be, I would've thought you knew that.

FYI, there is more than one way to get your broadheads to hit with your field points. maybe if you get off that high horse every once in a while you would know this.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

CamoCop said:


> when you are putting in and taking out twist in your yoke, you are not broadhead tuning, you are yoke tuning. being as intelligent as you claim to be, I would've thought you knew that.
> 
> FYI, there is more than one way to get your broadheads to hit with your field points. maybe if you get off that high horse every once in a while you would know this.


See, I always thought that broadhead tuning was tuning the bow, and arrows, so that broadheads and field points had the same point of impact. So you're going to have to enlighten me as to what broadhead tuning really is. By your logic, moving the rest isn't broadhead tuning, it's rest tuning. 

Broadhead tuning/getting broadheads and field points to hit the same poi, is all about getting perfect arrow flight. There are only a couple of ways to change arrow flight characteristics. This thread, as said in the OP, assumes that you ready have a properly spined arrow, and I talk briefly about one way to do that, and as said in the OP, it assumes that draw length is correct. Once the spine and draw length are correct, there are only a couple of ways to change and perfect arrow flight. One is moving the rest, and another is yoke tuning. Broadhead tipped arrows react like bare shafts, so me must have clean/perfect arrow flight. 

Another way to change arrow flight characteristics is grip. I'm also assuming that grip is correct , or at least repeatable. If the shooters grip is terrible though, then it that issue needs to be fixed.

As for the statement about there being more than one way to broadhead tune, I'll agree with that. You can either move the rest, or add and remove twists from the yoke. Other than that, if you are trying to say that you can move the rest either direction and get the same result, you sir are badly mistaken.

I'm not on a high horse, as my first response to your first post was meant to be light hearted, as I knew there were people who would disagree with me. The thing is, you seem to discount what I have to say, and based on what? Do you think that I spent a good portion of my time writing this post and pulling this info out of thin air? 

I'm trying to help people to successfully tune their bows, and if you've read this thread, I think that this thread has accomished that. There have been more that have PM'd me with their success also. That thread that I linked to BaldyHunter, says the same thing, and I've read a couple of more of his threads and that guy's the real deal. You just posted, "matter of factly" that I was wrong, and based off of what? 

I'm not on a high horse, just a light hearted response to your first post, and wondering what your basis of disagreement is, and what kind of experience you have to back it up. If you have extensive experience tuning bows, then we could have a beneficial discussion/debate about tuning bows. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but at least present facts (facts based on experience) about your method, and why mine is wrong.


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## Commfishmtk (Oct 11, 2013)

tagged


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## Professor Xring (Aug 29, 2014)

CamoCop said:


> when you are putting in and taking out twist in your yoke, you are not broadhead tuning, you are yoke tuning. being as intelligent as you claim to be, I would've thought you knew that.
> 
> FYI, there is more than one way to get your broadheads to hit with your field points. maybe if you get off that high horse every once in a while you would know this.


Troll much? :mg: :mg:


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

SlickNickel said:


> See, I always thought that broadhead tuning was tuning the bow, and arrows, so that broadheads and field points had the same point of impact. So you're going to have to enlighten me as to what broadhead tuning really is. By your logic, moving the rest isn't broadhead tuning, it's rest tuning.
> 
> Broadhead tuning/getting broadheads and field points to hit the same poi, is all about getting perfect arrow flight. There are only a couple of ways to change arrow flight characteristics. This thread, as said in the OP, assumes that you ready have a properly spined arrow, and I talk briefly about one way to do that, and as said in the OP, it assumes that draw length is correct. Once the spine and draw length are correct, there are only a couple of ways to change and perfect arrow flight. One is moving the rest, and another is yoke tuning. Broadhead tipped arrows react like bare shafts, so me must have clean/perfect arrow flight.
> 
> ...


your method is not wrong. it will do what you said it will do. it's just called yoke tuning. by doing this you are tuning the lean in your cam/wheel which will effect your arrows flight. nothing wrong with this method at all, except you need a bow press. for those with no access to a bow press, you can make the rest adjustment like i said and accomplish the same thing (broadheads and field points hitting together). by quoting what I said and the way you worded your response, you implied I was wrong and your way was the only way because "you have been doing this for years".


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## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

I tried nock tuning my Slick Trick Mags the other day. Even with baresahft bullet holes the mags hit left at 20 yds. Turned the nock 1/4 clockwise. Hit right of filed points. Tuned nock 1/4 again. Mags hit low vertical. 1/4 turn again. Mags scratched up field point shaft.

It may take a combination of many methods to make it work, but it can be done.

Don't think mechs are foolproof either. My T3's would hit 1" left all the way out to 60 yds. Had I nock tuned back then they would have hit together. If mech's always shot IDENTICAL to field points they wouldn't give you practice blades or heads. Food for thought.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

CamoCop said:


> your method is not wrong. it will do what you said it will do. it's just called yoke tuning. by doing this you are tuning the lean in your cam/wheel which will effect your arrows flight. nothing wrong with this method at all, except you need a bow press. for those with no access to a bow press, you can make the rest adjustment like i said and accomplish the same thing (broadheads and field points hitting together). by quoting what I said and the way you worded your response, you implied I was wrong and your way was the only way because "you have been doing this for years".


Did you read my thread? I mention moving the rest every time that I mention twisting the yokes. Both will accomplish the same thing, although yoke tuning is preferred. The difference and the reason that I responded to your first post, is because the way that you said to move the rest, in my experience, is usually wrong. 

That's why I started this thread, because I have found that Doc's method is more of an exception than a rule. Not the moving the rest part, but the direction in which he and you say to move the rest. It is usually backwards. In your first post you said to move the rest towards the field points, so in other words if broadheads impact to the right of field points you say to move the rest to the left. What I am saying in this thread is that when broadheads impact to the right of field points, that this is usually caused by a left tear which requires you to move the rest right to fix. In other words, you move the rest to make field points go towards the broadheads, and not broadheads towards field points.

No disrespect to Doc in any way, it's just that over the years, I've found his method (direction he says to move the rest) to be more of an exception than a rule. Although, I have had to move the rest in the direction he describes, MOST times it's just the opposite of his description and yours.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

IDABOW said:


> I tried nock tuning my Slick Trick Mags the other day. Even with baresahft bullet holes the mags hit left at 20 yds. Turned the nock 1/4 clockwise. Hit right of filed points. Tuned nock 1/4 again. Mags hit low vertical. 1/4 turn again. Mags scratched up field point shaft.
> 
> It may take a combination of many methods to make it work, but it can be done.
> 
> Don't think mechs are foolproof either. My T3's would hit 1" left all the way out to 60 yds. Had I nock tuned back then they would have hit together. If mech's always shot IDENTICAL to field points they wouldn't give you practice blades or heads. Food for thought.


Awesome. That is why I made sure to include turning the nocks when broadhead tuning. You may get one arrow perfect and shoot another and it hit left/right. It could make you pull your hair out, when a lot of times all it requires is a simple rotation of the nock. Nice job.


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

IDABOW said:


> I tried nock tuning my Slick Trick Mags the other day. Even with baresahft bullet holes the mags hit left at 20 yds. Turned the nock 1/4 clockwise. Hit right of filed points. Tuned nock 1/4 again. Mags hit low vertical. 1/4 turn again. Mags scratched up field point shaft.
> 
> It may take a combination of many methods to make it work, but it can be done.
> 
> Don't think mechs are foolproof either. My T3's would hit 1" left all the way out to 60 yds. Had I nock tuned back then they would have hit together. If mech's always shot IDENTICAL to field points they wouldn't give you practice blades or heads. Food for thought.


Yep I just had to do that with my NAP Killzones. Those mechanicals are not fool proof either.


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

SlickNickel said:


> Did you read my thread? I mention moving the rest every time that I mention twisting the yokes. Both will accomplish the same thing, although yoke tuning is preferred. The difference and the reason that I responded to your first post, is because the way that you said to move the rest, in my experience, is usually wrong.
> 
> That's why I started this thread, because I have found that Doc's method is more of an exception than a rule. Not the moving the rest part, but the direction in which he and you say to move the rest. It is usually backwards. In your first post you said to move the rest towards the field points, so in other words if broadheads impact to the right of field points you say to move the rest to the left. What I am saying in this thread is that when broadheads impact to the right of field points, that this is usually caused by a left tear which requires you to move the rest right to fix. In other words, you move the rest to make field points go towards the broadheads, and not broadheads towards field points.
> 
> No disrespect to Doc in any way, it's just that over the years, I've found his method (direction he says to move the rest) to be more of an exception than a rule. Although, I have had to move the rest in the direction he describes, MOST times it's just the opposite of his description and yours.


i don't know. it has always worked for me. i tried it after seeing it done on the TV show Nock On during the "tech segment" where the host said to do it this way and it has always worked for me.


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

i also never said you were wrong, except for the terminology. i was just making the point that there are more than 1 way to skin a cat.


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

I finally got a chance last night to broadhead tune my Hoyt Spyder 34 LD. I previously set my rest with an arrow in line/parallel with an arrow off the inside of the riser and level with the berger hole, then yoke and control cable tuned the bow to perfect bullet holes through paper at multiple distances. Shot some 3 and 4 blade Muzzys and they grouped perfectly with field points. No additional tuning needed! Tuned my Bear Agenda 7 the same way with equal results.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

bplayer405 said:


> I finally got a chance last night to broadhead tune my Hoyt Spyder 34 LD. I previously set my rest with an arrow in line/parallel with an arrow off the inside of the riser and level with the berger hole, then yoke and control cable tuned the bow to perfect bullet holes through paper at multiple distances. Shot some 3 and 4 blade Muzzys and they grouped perfectly with field points. No additional tuning needed! Tuned my Bear Agenda 7 the same way with equal results.


You sir are getting this tuning thing down pat. Nice job. Now you know that both of your bows are ready to go to the field!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Ok, so I broadhead tuned another bow today after Church. It is a Bowtech Insanity CPXL. I took pictures through the progression, that hopefully I can get uploaded to AT. I took a pic of the rest position before I started. I then went back to 45 yds and shot a broadhead and a couple of field points, and took a pic of the group. I then got the paper rack out and shot through paper at a few different distances and showed the paper tear. All of these tests and pics were done prior to any adjustments.

Here is the rest position









Here is the group at 45 yds. I was aiming at the chewed out hole, but the sights were a little off for me so all of the arrows hit a little bit low. The important thing though, is to look at the group. The broadhead hit several inches left of the field points.









I shot through paper just to see what kind of tear that I was getting. I knew what to expect, and I was right. Remember in the OP I said broadhead impacting left usually means right tear? Well, in this case I had broadheads impacting left, and guess what kind of tear that I had? A right tear. I started at 6 ft, and this is a really good pic of why you should shoot through paper at multiple distances. In this pic, the shot all the way to the left is at 6 ft, the middle tear is at 9 ft, and the third tear is at 12 ft. I stopped there because I knew there was no reason I continue back past that point.









At this point in my tuning process, I would usually put the bow in the press and start yoke tuning. This is a Bowtech Overdrive Binary system after all and has split yokes at top and bottom. I would typically add twists to the right yoke, and remove twists from the left yoke, until I had perfect bullet holes at every distance. Then I would recheck broadheads. In this case though, for the same of this thread, I didn't do that.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

You see, what I did was try out Doc's method and what a lot of people believe is the correct way to broadhead tune a bow. Since my broadheads were impacting to the left of my field points, I moved the rest to the right. In other words, I moved the rest to try and bring the broadheads towards the field points. I took a pic of the rest position to show the move that I made (compare it to the first pic of the rest position) and showed the group. You can also tell which way I moved the rest because of the point of impact of the arrows, as I did not re sight for left to right. I did adjust the elevation a little on the sights though so that my arrows wouldn't hit low.

Here is the new rest position after I moved the rest to bring the broadheads towards thefid points.









Here is a pic of the new group. Notice the arrow that is way out to the left? That is the broadhead. Look how much further away that broadhead is from the field point group after moving the rest towards the field points.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Next, I moved the rest back to its original position, and then bumped it past it's original position to the left. In other words, I moved the rest to bring the field points towards the broadheads. Yes, broadheads were hitting left of field points, and I moved the rest further to the left. Again, I took a pic of the rest position, but you can also tell which way that I moved the rest by looking at the poi of the arrows. In all 3 pics I was aiming at the same hole in the target.

Here is the rest position









Here is a pic of the arrow group. Which arrow has the fixed blade QAD Exodus on it?









After this group at 45 yds, I got the paper rack back out for the first time since the very beginning just to see where it was at. Here is the pic of the paper tears. These tears are from 6-21 ft starting left to right.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

So, once again the method that I describe here in this thread is what fixed the broadhead flight. This has been the norm for me over the last few years, and the reason that I started this thread. I did some reading and saw lots of folks having trouble broadhead tuning, and saying that they moved their rest in the direction that is described in Doc's thread/Slick Trick Website/ Easton Tuning Guide, and the problem wasn't fixed or got worse. This is because in my experience, and proven once again this afternoon, that method is usually wrong. Now, the bow that I just did this afternoon will get set back to perfect center shot, and will get yoked tuned to get perfect bullet holes at every distance. Then broadheads will be hitting with field points and the bow will be ready to go to the field. I hope this helps.


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## Elliot1987 (Dec 17, 2012)

SlickNickel said:


> So, once again the method that I describe here in this thread is what fixed the broadhead flight. This has been the norm for me over the last few years, and the reason that I started this thread. I did some reading and saw lots of folks having trouble broadhead tuning, and saying that they moved their rest in the direction that is described in Doc's thread/Slick Trick Website/ Easton Tuning Guide, and the problem wasn't fixed or got worse. This is because in my experience, and proven once again this afternoon, that method is usually wrong. Now, the bow that I just did this afternoon will get set back to perfect center shot, and will get yoked tuned to get perfect bullet holes at every distance. Then broadheads will be hitting with field points and the bow will be ready to go to the field. I hope this helps.


Was going to post on here earlier, but got really busy. I tried your method today after days of not being able to get a group of FPs and broadheads. when I tried the "normal way" of adjusting my rest he broadheads would group to the left of the field point ALWAYS. The closes I got was 3 inch group to the left of my FPs and 20 yrds. I then tried the way you described and after one small rest adjustment to the left as you described I shot 2 Field points then I shot my slick trick mag. I was never so happy that I cut off my fletching with a broadhead! I shot another group and decided to step it back to 30 and made a very tiny adjustment to the left after shooting a group of broadheads just to the left of the field points. Wouldn't you know it worked. I didn't get time to tune it at 40 so that will be my project in a couple days when I have time.
THANK YOU SO MUCH SLICKNICKEL!!! I wish I would have read this thread a week ago!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Elliot1987 said:


> Was going to post on here earlier, but got really busy. I tried your method today after days of not being able to get a group of FPs and broadheads. when I tried the "normal way" of adjusting my rest he broadheads would group to the left of the field point ALWAYS. The closes I got was 3 inch group to the left of my FPs and 20 yrds. I then tried the way you described and after one small rest adjustment to the left as you described I shot 2 Field points then I shot my slick trick mag. I was never so happy that I cut off my fletching with a broadhead! I shot another group and decided to step it back to 30 and made a very tiny adjustment to the left after shooting a group of broadheads just to the left of the field points. Wouldn't you know it worked. I didn't get time to tune it at 40 so that will be my project in a couple days when I have time.
> THANK YOU SO MUCH SLICKNICKEL!!! I wish I would have read this thread a week ago!


Hey, congrats!! It's an awesome feeling to get your bow so well tuned. I'm glad that I could help and I greatly appreciate the feedback.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Bump it up for the picture tutorial that I added at the end of the thread.


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## buckhunter1 (May 25, 2009)

07commander said:


> That's what I thought also. But have yet to get anyone that can explain why. I like to know the "why things work the way they do". Not just that that they do.


Marked


tom071984 said:


> I just read the tuning guides you supplied Slicknickle. They do agree with what you say, I just don't understand it





tom071984 said:


> So many things here don't add up at all. I agree that if you get high hitting broadheads "low tear" to move the rest down. But if you have broadheads shooting left "right tear" moving the rest left would increase the amount of left angle in the arrows trajectory, causing broadheads to go further left and a larger right tear. And the guy that said if you move your rest right your arrow will point further left????? The only way that could happen would be to move your nock to the right!!!!





grousegrove said:


> I shoot a very similar set up, and had similar frustrations the other day with GrizzTricks, so I appreciate your post, as well as your dilemma. I am going to try stiffer arrows and see if that helps.
> 
> For what it's worth, IMO 3 inches' difference at 50 yards is still very very close, especially with a target as large as the kill zone on an elk. I'd say you're very close to perfect right now, assuming that it's close or closer at 20, 30, 40.
> 
> Best of luck on your hunt!





SlickNickel said:


> You see, what I did was try out Doc's method and what a lot of people believe is the correct way to broadhead tune a bow. Since my broadheads were impacting to the left of my field points, I moved the rest to the right. In other words, I moved the rest to try and bring the broadheads towards the field points. I took a pic of the rest position to show the move that I made (compare it to the first pic of the rest position) and showed the group. You can also tell which way I moved the rest because of the point of impact of the arrows, as I did not re sight for left to right. I did adjust the elevation a little on the sights though so that my arrows wouldn't hit low.
> 
> Here is the new rest position after I moved the rest to bring the broadheads towards thefid points.
> 
> ...





SlickNickel said:


> Bump it up for the picture tutorial that I added at the end of the thread.


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## T.P.O.#3 (May 9, 2007)

Worked for me nickel.tuned the other way everything kept going left.tried your way 8 to 10 shots later broadsheets were stacked with field points. Thanks for the insight,great post I have a lot more confidence going to the field this year.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

T.P.O.#3 said:


> Worked for me nickel.tuned the other way everything kept going left.tried your way 8 to 10 shots later broadsheets were stacked with field points. Thanks for the insight,great post I have a lot more confidence going to the field this year.


Awesome! I'm glad that I could help. I'm glad that you have the bow well tuned and have more confidence in your equipment.


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## cloquet (Jan 12, 2004)

ttt


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## BucksAndBows (Jul 7, 2014)

This is really late I have all day tommorrow to shoot I've been shooting nonstop the whole summer but can't believe I didn't break out the Bh's tell today and my field points are right on but broadheads are high 2 inches and right 3"


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## Lammas (Feb 11, 2014)

Worked for me too. Broad heads hit right, moved the rest right, bingo.


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## bowtechxring (Jun 30, 2007)

:wink:.................You got it buddy........spot on!!! Nice write up by the way.


SlickNickel said:


> Hunting season is almost here, and everyone is starting to shoot their broadheads. For those of us who still prefer to shoot a fixed blade broadhead, we are checking to make sure that our broadheads are flying with our field points. If not, some people start tuning, some people re-sight their bow in with their broadheads, and some people get frustrated and go buy some mechanical heads. I've done a lot of broadhead tuning on bows over the past few years, and have done multiple bows in the past few days. This is what prompted me to write this post. I know going into this thread, that some will say that I don't know what I'm talking about, because what I'm going to tell you will, in some ways, go against the traditional wisdom.
> 
> I did a search (the AT search feature stinks, or maybe I'm just not smart enough to use it correctly) and only found one thread that was done by Doc explaining broadhead tuning, and no disrespect to Doc, but I feel that the thread could be expanded to explain a little more about broadhead tuning. I'm sure that there are more threads on this, but I couldn't find them, and this may be a good reminder anyways. This is one of the most common questions that I see and hear about when it comes to bowhunters. To many, it's a myth, others just don't want to put in the work to get their bows right, some don't know any better, and then there are others who strive for perfection in their hunting setup. I'm of the latter. Let's look at how we can achieve this mystical broadhead tune.
> 
> ...


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Lammas said:


> Worked for me too. Broad heads hit right, moved the rest right, bingo.


Nice job! Glad I could help.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

bowtechxring said:


> :wink:.................You got it buddy........spot on!!! Nice write up by the way.


Thanks. I just see people struggle with broadheads and a lot of it is from reading inaccurate information. Lots of people claim to know about tuning, but many just know what they have read and their advice on here isn't from actually tuning a lot of bows, but rather reading a bunch of posts. There is some really good info on this site, but as much good info that is here, there is almost the same amount of bad info. This thread that I wrote here didn't come from reading a bunch of posts on AT, it came from hands on experience tuning a lot of bows. Those who have tried it have posted their success here in this thread and/or contacted me through pm. I knew when I wrote this thread that many would disagree because of what they have read, and that is fine. I just ask them to give it a try, and I hope that those people who read this thread to learn something will listen to what I have said here so that they may have success in tuning their own bow.


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## PGFbowhunter (Jun 9, 2013)

Nice write up thanks for sharing


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I have been broadhead tuning for the last couple of day. My bh was hitting left of fp by about 5". I moved the rest to the right but could not get the bh and fp to hit together. I decided to bare shaft tune. The bare shaft was hitting right of fp. So I moved the rest to the left and the Bare shaft and fp hit together. Then I decided to shoot the bh and it also hit with the fp. 

So to get the bh and field point to hit together I had to move the fp toward the bh. I still don't see how this could work.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

jim p said:


> I have been broadhead tuning for the last couple of day. My bh was hitting left of fp by about 5". I moved the rest to the right but could not get the bh and fp to hit together. I decided to bare shaft tune. The bare shaft was hitting right of fp. So I moved the rest to the left and the Bare shaft and fp hit together. Then I decided to shoot the bh and it also hit with the fp.
> 
> So to get the bh and field point to hit together I had to move the fp toward the bh. I still don't see how this could work.


Awesome! I'm glad you got it worked out. I know that it goes against traditional thinking, but when you think about it as shooting through paper it makes more sense. Point left/tail right paper tear means broadheads hit left of field points. To fix a tail right tear we move the rest to the left, or twist the right yoke. Vice versa for point right/tail left tears.

I honestly mean no disrespect to Doc or others who believe the other method is correct, I have just found that what I have outlined here is the rule, and their method is the exception to the rule. There are always exceptions to the rule, but more times then not, you will find this method, here in this thread, to work.


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## S.Alder (Aug 4, 2012)

Tagged


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

BucksAndBows said:


> This is really late I have all day tommorrow to shoot I've been shooting nonstop the whole summer but can't believe I didn't break out the Bh's tell today and my field points are right on but broadheads are high 2 inches and right 3"


Sorry buddy, somehow your post slipped by me. I didn't see it until just now. Fix the high/low first. If broadheads are hitting high, bump the rest down just a little. Make 1/64"- 1/32" adjustments until you get them grouping at the same elevation. Once you get that done, then either add a couple twists to the left yoke and remove a couple of twists to the right yoke, if you have a press and a bow with a split Y cable. If you don't have a press or a bow with a split Y cable then bump the rest to the right, again in very small increments. Once you get the broadheads and field points grouping/hitting together, then adjust your sights to bring the arrow group to the center of the bullseye.


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

SlickNickel said:


> Sorry buddy, somehow your post slipped by me. I didn't see it until just now. Fix the high/low first. If broadheads are hitting high, bump the rest down just a little. Make 1/64"- 1/32" adjustments until you get them grouping at the same elevation. Once you get that done, then either add a couple twists to the left yoke and remove a couple of twists to the right yoke, if you have a press and a bow with a split Y cable. If you don't have a press or a bow with a split Y cable then bump the rest to the right, again in very small increments. Once you get the broadheads and field points grouping/hitting together, then adjust your sights to bring the arrow group to the center of the bullseye.


Isn't twisting the left, untwisting the right yoke moving the string to the right? It seems that would have the same effect as moving the rest left. I don't understand how moving the string to the right and moving the rest to the right can have the same effect.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

I've had people question me when I've detailed exactly what you have posted here. They all mention the Easton tuning guide and how it doesn't agree with this logic. They also can't seem to wrap their heads around it because they are thinking about what the point of the arrow is doing at brace. "If you move the rest to the left it'll make the broadheads hit more left because the wind will hit more on the right side of the blades.....Right?" NOOOO you must think of what the back of the arrow is doing. We call it a "nock right" condition not a "point left". We tune the back of the arrow and that corrects the flight. I think most of the people that argue this method or logic simply haven't tried it. You can't argue with the results unless you have not gotten those results through experimentation. Good work OP.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

07commander said:


> Isn't twisting the left, untwisting the right yoke moving the string to the right? It seems that would have the same effect as moving the rest left. I don't understand how moving the string to the right and moving the rest to the right can have the same effect.


I don't understand it either. I just accept that it does because I've seen it over and over again. I wish I had a high speed camera and see what these changes make in real time. The best way I've been able to think about it is just thinking about the nock end and forget about the point end. Move the string right, the nock moves right. Move the rest right, the nock moves right (that's the one that's hard to understand). The best I can come up with is that you're moving the arrow more in line with the string as it goes through it's power stroke.

If you think about why you have to move your rest, it's because you have lateral nock travel. If you don't have a yoke to adjust to remove that lateral nock travel, you move your rest to push the arrow in the way of the string. If you imagine balancing a broom stick on your finger. When the point of the stick gets too far to one side, it starts to fall. You move your finger quickly to get the bottom of the stick back directly underneath the top point. That's what moving your rest does to the nock end of the arrow. Your broom stick is an arrow and when the point is to far left, you have to move the rest to the left to get directly "underneath" the point. 

I hope that make some sort of sense. I had to think pretty hard about it as I typed haha.


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## 07commander (Dec 22, 2010)

Huntinsker said:


> I don't understand it either. I just accept that it does because I've seen it over and over again. I wish I had a high speed camera and see what these changes make in real time. The best way I've been able to think about it is just thinking about the nock end and forget about the point end. Move the string right, the nock moves right. Move the rest right, the nock moves right (that's the one that's hard to understand). The best I can come up with is that you're moving the arrow more in line with the string as it goes through it's power stroke.
> 
> If you think about why you have to move your rest, it's because you have lateral nock travel. If you don't have a yoke to adjust to remove that lateral nock travel, you move your rest to push the arrow in the way of the string. If you imagine balancing a broom stick on your finger. When the point of the stick gets too far to one side, it starts to fall. You move your finger quickly to get the bottom of the stick back directly underneath the top point. That's what moving your rest does to the nock end of the arrow. Your broom stick is an arrow and when the point is to far left, you have to move the rest to the left to get directly "underneath" the point.
> 
> I hope that make some sort of sense. I had to think pretty hard about it as I typed haha.


I can totally understand moving the nock to the right for a BH hitting to the right of FT. But I can't for the life of me see how moving the rest the same direction can accomplish the same thing. 

In the past i just paper tuned my bows and sigted in for the heads I would use. It always worked and I always got passthroughs. Then I got on here and seen everyone bare shaft and BH tuning, and thought maybe I was missing something. So I bare shaft tuned my cpxl, and BH were pretty close. I can't remember which direction I went when bareshaft tuning. 

Do you use the same directions for bare shaft as BH? I'll have to do some experimenting after season.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

07commander said:


> I can totally understand moving the nock to the right for a BH hitting to the right of FT. But I can't for the life of me see how moving the rest the same direction can accomplish the same thing.
> 
> In the past i just paper tuned my bows and sigted in for the heads I would use. It always worked and I always got passthroughs. Then I got on here and seen everyone bare shaft and BH tuning, and thought maybe I was missing something. So I bare shaft tuned my cpxl, and BH were pretty close. I can't remember which direction I went when bareshaft tuning.
> 
> Do you use the same directions for bare shaft as BH? I'll have to do some experimenting after season.


Yep same direction for bareshafts although, with your CPXL, you may just want to yoke tune. Get that string moving straight forward through the power stroke is more efficient than tuning to lateral nock travel.


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## Casey-BB (Aug 18, 2014)

I bare shaft tune my bow to 10 yard bullets through paper and 20 yards by grouping them with fletched shafts. After doing that, my broadheads fly perfectly. The way I move my rest is in the same direction as the nock on paper. If your point is hitting right and you have a left tear, then that means your arrow is flying like this / . Your rest is too far to the right of center shot. If you move your rest more to the right, you are making it worse. If you get a different result than that, you mis interpreted your original results on paper or target. This is what was happening with the bow in Slick Nickles photos.

I think where the confusion is coming in is because an arrow flying like this "/" rest right of center..... will cause the field points to land right of center not the broadheads. Broadheads with more stearing surface will correct the crooked flight quicker and fly closer to center but not on center. That's why moving the rest to the broadhead corrects your problem of grouping together. You are bringing the "right of center" rest to the center and correcting this---> /, which brings your field points to the broadhead. Also notice how on slick nickles photo, after he's done the entire group moves left of where it was shooting and then perfectly groups together. He's now on center and just needs to move his sights windage gang adjustment. This becomes very obvious if you use paper to tune your center shot instead of point of impact methods like walk back tuning, because you see the tear and know exactly what your arrow is doing.

Either way though. If your bow is perfectly bare shaft tuned or even regular paper tuned and your broadheads arent grouping with your field points, something else is wrong and moving your rest the opposite direction of what makes sense is covering up that other problem. I care not what you do, but if you are NOT shooting from center, your arrow isn't flying straight and your penetration will suffer. 

Slick Nickles way is right, you just have to realize that you are moving the field points to the broadhead by correcting your center shot. Not the other way around.


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## Casey-BB (Aug 18, 2014)

I cant explain why you get a right tear with broadheads hitting left though. That's completely opposite of what I see, but I do agree that you need to move the rest towards the broadhead poi. I think you might not have meant to type it that way, because if you think about it, you correct a right tear by moving the rest to the right, not left. A right tear is coming off the bow like this \. You move the rest to the right to bring the point over to center. That's opposite of how you corrected the bow in the photos. If you truely had a right tear, moving the rest to the left would have made this \ much worse.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Casey-BB said:


> I cant explain why you get a right tear with broadheads hitting left though. That's completely opposite of what I see, but I do agree that you need to move the rest towards the broadhead poi. I think you might not have meant to type it that way, because if you think about it, you correct a right tear by moving the rest to the right, not left. A right tear is coming off the bow like this \. You move the rest to the right to bring the point over to center. That's opposite of how you corrected the bow in the photos. If you truely had a right tear, moving the rest to the left would have made this \ much worse.


You may want to do a little more reading. Every paper tuning guide ever says that to fix a right tear, you move the rest to the left.


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## Casey-BB (Aug 18, 2014)

Huntinsker said:


> You may want to do a little more reading. Every paper tuning guide ever says that to fix a right tear, you move the rest to the left.


I didn't learn that from reading a paper tuning guide, I learned it from shooting paper and tuning my own bow. When my arrow tears tail right like this \ , I move the tip over to center by moving the rest to the right. That's kind of the point of this entire thread though, right? People are getting opposite results of the traditional guides. I shoot bare shafts through paper too, so there's no way for the arrow to correct itself before hitting paper. Maybe that's the difference, idk.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Casey-BB said:


> I cant explain why you get a right tear with broadheads hitting left though. That's completely opposite of what I see, but I do agree that you need to move the rest towards the broadhead poi. I think you might not have meant to type it that way, because if you think about it, you correct a right tear by moving the rest to the right, not left. A right tear is coming off the bow like this \. You move the rest to the right to bring the point over to center. That's opposite of how you corrected the bow in the photos. If you truely had a right tear, moving the rest to the left would have made this \ much worse.


No, I typed it exactly the way that I meant to. To fix a left tear you normally move the rest to the right or twist the left yoke, and to fix a right tear you normally move the rest to the left or twist the right yoke. I just did another bow yesterday evening, an Archery Research 34, and the guy had a right tear through paper. I looked at his rest position, and it needed to come out a little, so before I went to twisting yokes I bumped the rest to the left. I had him shoot through paper after adjusting the rest to the left a little, and bingo. Perfect bullet holes. No need for yoke tuning in this case because the rest needed to be moved the left anyways for correct center shot. Point is, once again a right tear was fixed by moving the rest to the left.

I used to tune bows and build custom strings. I got out of it because it was a side business, as I wouldn't quit my day job with its pay and benefits. With it being a side business, it was taking way too much time away from my family, as I have 2 young kids. Every evening and every weekend was tied up building strings and tuning bows, along with other services such as making custom arrows etc. On the weekends I would be up working until 3:00-4:00 in the morning getting caught up, so that I could keep my lead times good. Just since I've started this thread I've done 5 bows, and I'm supposed to do 3 more this coming week unless something happens, and I've quit lol. 

I'm not telling this story to brag in any way, or to say or that I'm the only one who knows what I'm talking about. I just want to show some credentials as to how I can be so confident in my explanations here. This thread and method didn't come from tuning a couple of my personal bows, it has come from tuning a whole bunch of bows. I have since searched these threads over and there are other seasoned tuners who say the same thing, like BaldyHunter. I'd like to sit down and talk with that guy for a couple of hours. He explains things exactly the way that I see them, and there has been very little to none of what I have read of his that I disagree with. 

I started this thread to help people broadhead tune their bows, and it is accomplishing that. I love logging on here and seeing the Pm's of people who are or have successfully broadhead tuned their bows, and all of the posters on this thread who have successfully tuned theirs. That is what it's all about, Archers helping Archers.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Casey-BB said:


> I didn't learn that from reading a paper tuning guide, I learned it from shooting paper and tuning my own bow. When my arrow tears tail right like this \ , I move the tip over to center by moving the rest to the right. That's kind of the point of this entire thread though, right? People are getting opposite results of the traditional guides. I shoot bare shafts through paper too, so there's no way for the arrow to correct itself before hitting paper. Maybe that's the difference, idk.


Nope. Other way around. We agree with the paper tuning guides but disagree with broadhead tuning guides.


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## SCFox (Dec 11, 2005)

Casey-BB said:


> I cant explain why you get a right tear with broadheads hitting left though. That's completely opposite of what I see, but I do agree that you need to move the rest towards the broadhead poi. I think you might not have meant to type it that way, because if you think about it, you correct a right tear by moving the rest to the right, not left. A right tear is coming off the bow like this \. You move the rest to the right to bring the point over to center. That's opposite of how you corrected the bow in the photos. If you truely had a right tear, moving the rest to the left would have made this \ much worse.


When paper tuning, if you get this, \, a right tear, chase the point. Move the rest to the left. 

SCFox


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## deerhunter3241 (Jun 7, 2004)

I've read this entire post and to be honest I don't understand it. I am by no means a professional archer or hunter, but I do my fair share of shooting all year long, do all of my own bow work, and make my own arrows (cut, fletch, inserts, etc). And I haven't shot every broadhead out there either (maybe 6 different fixed blades and 4 different expandables). But in all my years of hunting with bows from multiple different companies, I have never had an issue where my broadheads didn't fly just like my fieldpoints. I assume its because I take the time to tune my bow to the absolute best I can while target shooting that I don't see this variation of impact that so many archers talk about.

I can't be the only one who feels this way from their past experiences. So my question is, why are there so many archers who consistently talk about having trouble with broadheads flying true to their fieldpoints?


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## ermont (Aug 26, 2011)

Tagged


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## Bob H in NH (Aug 20, 2002)

If BH don't hit with FP (all else being equal, like equal weight same arrows) then it IS a tuning issue. If you have the tuning issues cleaned up by paper or bare shaft, or walk back tuning, great, then FP/BH will hit the same.

I followed the advice in this thread, it contradicts Easton's tuning guide, FP tuning guide, HOWEVER after trying it "by the book" and getting frustrated, I figured "what the heck" and did counter to what logic told me and POOF, it worked.

Here's the part I don't understand. And I am willing to say I have it backwards, but it's inconsistent:

- BH hitting high, lower rest, chase the FP (this makes logical sense to me)
- BH hitting left, move rest left, chase the BH (this makes no logical sense to me)

It works, and I will be doing it forever this way, but the engineer in me wants to know why it's different! In both cases you are moving the point of the arrow. YOu NEVER are moving the nock end by moving the rest. Nock end is locked in place by the string. Now yolk tuning, you are moving the back end, but not by moving the rest.

Just curious why up/down moves opposite right/left.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Bob H in NH said:


> If BH don't hit with FP (all else being equal, like equal weight same arrows) then it IS a tuning issue. If you have the tuning issues cleaned up by paper or bare shaft, or walk back tuning, great, then FP/BH will hit the same.
> 
> I followed the advice in this thread, it contradicts Easton's tuning guide, FP tuning guide, HOWEVER after trying it "by the book" and getting frustrated, I figured "what the heck" and did counter to what logic told me and POOF, it worked.
> 
> ...


In your first paragraph it says that if bh and fp don't hit together than it is a tuning issue. This is mostly correct, but when broadhead tuning don't forget about rotating nocks. Once the bow is paper tuned or bare shaft tuned, you may still have a few arrows out of the dozen that won't fly the same. Rotate nocks on these arrows.

I don't know the science that lies behind the answer to your question. I can only assume that it has everything to do with the torque in the system that any bow that has a roller guard or cable slide has, and the lateral nock travel that it produces. This is why most bows require some lean at rest to tune down the center, and why yoke tuning is the preferred method of fixing horizontal tears (on bows that have yokes). You are essentially tuning out the lateral nock travel when yoke tuning. Moving the rest still works, of course, and in some cases where a press is not readily available or the bow doesn't have yokes, it is our only option. Results can still be great though, and moving the rest will usually fix the problem. 

I know that I didn't really answer your question, but in my mind it comes down to the lateral nock travel.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Did a few more bows this week. A carbon Spyder 34 had broadheads hitting high at 40 yds. Shot through paper and had a low tear, so I moved the rest down a little and got perfect bullet holes. Shot broadheads again at 40 yds they were dead on. An Elite Energy 32 was getting a right tear. Broadheads hit left. I moved the rest to the left to fix the righ tear, and made a small adjustment to the cable for, and shot perfect bullet holes from all distances. Shot broadheads past 40 yds with field points. Again, broadheads hit left, and I moved the rest left to bring poi of both together.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

deerhunter3241 said:


> I've read this entire post and to be honest I don't understand it. I am by no means a professional archer or hunter, but I do my fair share of shooting all year long, do all of my own bow work, and make my own arrows (cut, fletch, inserts, etc). And I haven't shot every broadhead out there either (maybe 6 different fixed blades and 4 different expandables). But in all my years of hunting with bows from multiple different companies, I have never had an issue where my broadheads didn't fly just like my fieldpoints. I assume its because I take the time to tune my bow to the absolute best I can while target shooting that I don't see this variation of impact that so many archers talk about.
> 
> I can't be the only one who feels this way from their past experiences. So my question is, why are there so many archers who consistently talk about having trouble with broadheads flying true to their fieldpoints?


Because most hunters don't know how to properly setup and tune their own bows, and a lot of bow shops don't take the time, nor have the knowledge to do it for them. If your bow isn't tuned right, then you will have issues with fixed blade heads not flying with field points. It sounds as though you take the time and have the knowledge to tune your own equipment, so you've never had those issues.


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## BowhunterCliffy (Feb 19, 2007)

killemall1983 said:


> I agree. Moving it in the same direction it is hitting is going to make it worse.
> Check out the link Riverbc posted right below your post. That tutorial does it correctly.


This is wrong according to all the broadhead tuning and bareshaft tuning I have ever done, backwards.
When I have broadhead tuned, I always have 'chased' the broadhead, just like Op says to do it, and it works every single time for me.
Like he said though, there will be a few exceptions to the rule, but the majority will tune the way the Op stated IMO.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

SlickNickel said:


> Did a few more bows this week. A carbon Spyder 34 had broadheads hitting high at 40 yds. Shot through paper and had a low tear, so I moved the rest down a little and got perfect bullet holes. Shot broadheads again at 40 yds they were dead on. An Elite Energy 32 was getting a right tear. Broadheads hit left. I moved the rest to the left to fix the righ tear, and made a small adjustment to the cable for, and shot perfect bullet holes from all distances. Shot broadheads past 40 yds with field points. Again, broadheads hit left, and I moved the rest left to bring poi of both together.


you dont make any sense with the left and right broadhead impact. You are correct that when you have a left BH impact that your nock is tearing right. if your move the rest to the left (as if your looking down the arrow from fletch to point) you are moving the rest more out of tune and the nock is now more right of the arrow point. If your referring to turning the bow around so the stabilizer is facing you and you move the rest left then yes we are talking about the same direction. 

So in summary if we are tuning a right hand bow, broadhead are impacting left of FP that means you have a slight nock right tear through paper, to correct this you move the rest right toward the riser, this moves the arrow point to be in alignment with the nock.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

Huntinsker said:


> Nope. Other way around. We agree with the paper tuning guides but disagree with broadhead tuning guides.


When you adjust the rest what direction are you looking at the bow. do you hold the bow as your shooting it or turn it around to face you so you would be looking down the arrow from point to nock if one was in the rest?


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## BowhunterCliffy (Feb 19, 2007)

mhill said:


> you dont make any sense with the left and right broadhead impact. You are correct that when you have a left BH impact that your nock is tearing right. if your move the rest to the left (as if your looking down the arrow from fletch to point) you are moving the rest more out of tune and the nock is now more right of the arrow point. If your referring to turning the bow around so the stabilizer is facing you and you move the rest left then yes we are talking about the same direction.
> 
> *So in summary if we are tuning a right hand bow, broadhead are impacting left of FP that means you have a slight nock right tear through paper, to correct this you move the rest right toward the riser*, this moves the arrow point to be in alignment with the nock.


I respectfully disagree with this. The last 6 or 7 bows I have tuned I have always moved my rest towards the bareshaft and or fixed blade BH impact.
So if my Fixed blades and bareshafts are hitting right of FP's, I have moved my rest right, 'chasing' the bareshaft or BH if you will in very small increments, and it has worked every time.
I know the physics don't seem right, like I would be moving rest more out of tune, but it absolutely has worked for me on my bows moving the rest like the Op has stated.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

BowhunterCliffy said:


> I respectfully disagree with this. The last 6 or 7 bows I have tuned I have always moved my rest towards the bareshaft and or fixed blade BH impact.
> So if my Fixed blades and bareshafts are hitting right of FP's, I have moved my rest right, 'chasing' the bareshaft or BH if you will in very small increments, and it has worked every time.
> I know the physics don't seem right, like I would be moving rest more out of tune, but it absolutely has worked for me on my bows moving the rest like the Op has stated.


Which way do you view the bow when your making adjustments?


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## BowhunterCliffy (Feb 19, 2007)

mhill said:


> Which way do you view the bow when your making adjustments?


Behind the bow like I would be shooting it. I know that is going to seem completely backwards, like I am moving rest more out of tune, but it has definitely worked for me to tune that way.
I am not going to say that that is the ONLY way to do it however, but it works every time for me.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

BowhunterCliffy said:


> Behind the bow like I would be shooting it. I know that is going to seem completely backwards, like I am moving rest more out of tune, but it has definitely worked for me to tune that way.
> I am not going to say that that is the ONLY way to do it however, but it works every time for me.


But just because it works does that mean it is correct? Does that mean the arrow will be traveling true? You and Huntinsker say this works and you just said it seems like your moving the rest even more out of tune but it works... have you checked it through paper after? i bet your bow shoots a worse hole then is did before you move the rest more nock right. I realize paper tuning is a starting point but its also an indicator of what your arrow is doing. Im not saying your right or wrong but if something logically does not make sense to me i wont do it.


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## Bob H in NH (Aug 20, 2002)

mhill said:


> But just because it works does that mean it is correct? Does that mean the arrow will be traveling true? You and Huntinsker say this works and you just said it seems like your moving the rest even more out of tune but it works... have you checked it through paper after? i bet your bow shoots a worse hole then is did before you move the rest more nock right. I realize paper tuning is a starting point but its also an indicator of what your arrow is doing. Im not saying your right or wrong but if something logically does not make sense to me i wont do it.


Yes paper tuning is a STARTING point, you then BH tune (or bare shaft tune) to fine tune it. Why would you then go back to a less accurate method?

All I know is it works. I followed all "published" guides and had perfect bullet holes in paper at 3 and 10 feet. then BH tuned. BH was hitting LEFT of field points, I moved hte rest toward the riser (right) and the two got further apart. I thought it must be me, so put the bow down. Picked it up a few days later and yup, they were still far apart. Put the rest back where I started (moving it away from the riser/left) and htey got closer again. So what the heck, kept the rest going that way and they are pefectly together now out to 50 yards.

When what makes sense logically doesn't work, it means there's something you don't understand, so try something else. In this case I agree, logically it doesn't seem to make sense, but I also figure there's something in the dynamic movement that is what I don't understand.

What I do understand: my BH and FP are hitting together and BOTH are now grouping tighter than when I had a bullet hole in paper.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

mhill said:


> But just because it works does that mean it is correct? Does that mean the arrow will be traveling true? You and Huntinsker say this works and you just said it seems like your moving the rest even more out of tune but it works... have you checked it through paper after? i bet your bow shoots a worse hole then is did before you move the rest more nock right. I realize paper tuning is a starting point but its also an indicator of what your arrow is doing. Im not saying your right or wrong but if something logically does not make sense to me i wont do it.


They are correct. On every bow I tune with vertical arrow support (a rest that contacts the bottom of the arrow....not the side like old cushion plungers) if I get a tail right tear, left bare shaft or left broad head... then I move the rest left....or twist the right yoke (becuase this effectively moves the string to the right).

And yes, after bare shaft tuning or broad head tuning I fully expect to go back to paper and find a bullet hole.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

SlickNickel said:


> So, once again the method that I describe here in this thread is what fixed the broadhead flight. This has been the norm for me over the last few years, and the reason that I started this thread. I did some reading and saw lots of folks having trouble broadhead tuning, and saying that they moved their rest in the direction that is described in Doc's thread/Slick Trick Website/ Easton Tuning Guide, and the problem wasn't fixed or got worse. This is because in my experience, and proven once again this afternoon, that method is usually wrong. Now, the bow that I just did this afternoon will get set back to perfect center shot, and will get yoked tuned to get perfect bullet holes at every distance. Then broadheads will be hitting with field points and the bow will be ready to go to the field. I hope this helps.


I'm glad you picked the fight. I've been tired of individually telling people that those sources are broadly wrong (outdated to shoot-around rests) and having my manhood questioned as a result.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> They are correct. On every bow I tune with vertical arrow support (a rest that contacts the bottom of the arrow....not the side like old cushion plungers) if I get a tail right tear, left bare shaft or left broad head... then I move the rest left....or twist the right yoke (becuase this effectively moves the string to the right).
> 
> And yes, after bare shaft tuning or broad head tuning I fully expect to go back to paper and find a bullet hole.


I may have to try it out... If i ever need to. With the ODBs i dont need to touch my rest. So essentially both methods work. i have always been able to move the rest in the direction i want to broadheads to tune and they went where i wanted them to go with FPs. There are plenty of articles and publications that support the method i describe but none of what you guys talk about... does your method tighten groups more then the method i describe? assuming you tried both and was able to get both to hit with FPs?


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## bus33 (Aug 6, 2006)

tmorelli said:


> They are correct. On every bow I tune with vertical arrow support (a rest that contacts the bottom of the arrow....not the side like old cushion plungers) if I get a tail right tear, left bare shaft or left broad head... then I move the rest left....or twist the right yoke (becuase this effectively moves the string to the right).
> 
> And yes, after bare shaft tuning or broad head tuning I fully expect to go back to paper and find a bullet hole.


I agree with you.....I chase my broad heads when tuning them. One question though.....doesn't twisting the right yolk move the string left?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

mhill said:


> I may have to try it out... If i ever need to. With the ODBs i dont need to touch my rest. So essentially both methods work. i have always been able to move the rest in the direction i want to broadheads to tune and they went where i wanted them to go with FPs. There are plenty of articles and publications that support the method i describe but none of what you guys talk about... does your method tighten groups more then the method i describe? assuming you tried both and was able to get both to hit with FPs?


I've never seen moving the rest away from the bare shaft or BH work (except in some cases with two tracks). 

I shot ODB's for a couple of years and never moved my rest either.... If I had a tail right, I twisted my right yokes. If my BH or bare shafts hit left, I twisted my right yokes. Or.... If it appeared that my rest might be inside, i moved it out. In all honesty, in either of those cases what I probably did first was stiffen my arrow if I already had minimal pre-lean and the rest wasn't inside.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Example- 

Tail left = broad head right = move rest in (right) or twist left yokes or soften arrow spine or adjust cable guard for more clearance


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> I've never seen moving the rest away from the bare shaft or BH work (except in some cases with two tracks).
> 
> I shot ODB's for a couple of years and never moved my rest either.... If I had a tail right, I twisted my right yokes. If my BH or bare shafts hit left, I twisted my right yokes. Or.... If it appeared that my rest might be inside, i moved it out. In all honesty, in either of those cases what I probably did first was stiffen my arrow if I already had minimal pre-lean and the rest wasn't inside.


Yup i did that this year with the ODB's my first time, spent a little time with the bareshaft got it real close and went to broadheads to finish the tune... Did you get away from the ODBs because the specialist limb issues?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

mhill said:


> Yup i did that this year with the ODB's my first time, spent a little time with the bareshaft got it real close and went to broadheads to finish the tune... Did you get away from the ODBs because the specialist limb issues?


Mostly....and Bowtech's handling of it.


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## BowhunterCliffy (Feb 19, 2007)

mhill said:


> But just because it works does that mean it is correct? Does that mean the arrow will be traveling true? You and Huntinsker say this works and you just said it seems like your moving the rest even more out of tune but it works... have you checked it through paper after? i bet your bow shoots a worse hole then is did before you move the rest more nock right. I realize paper tuning is a starting point but its also an indicator of what your arrow is doing. Im not saying your right or wrong but if something logically does not make sense to me i wont do it.


Perfect bullet holes


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

tmorelli said:


> I'm glad you picked the fight. I've been tired of individually telling people that those sources are broadly wrong (outdated to shoot-around rests) and having my manhood questioned as a result.


I've gotten into it on several threads since August and I'm over it. The same people argue till their blue in the face but they never actually mention if they've ever done it or if they have even tried chasing the broadhead or bareshaft. I've given up on trying to explain the same thing over and over unless someone asks me a question via PM. I did a quick bareshaft tune on my new HC today and just for fun I tried moving just the rest. I tried both directions, even though I knew which way was correct, and wouldn't you know it, moving the rest away from the bareshaft POI made things worse. 

To finish the tune I set the rest to dead center centershot, 3/4", and then yoke tuned. I wish I had time to make a good video to counter that backwards tuning guide and thread. I know they meant well when they made it. Just too bad they were using outdated information.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

Huntinsker said:


> I've gotten into it on several threads since August and I'm over it. The same people argue till their blue in the face but they never actually mention if they've ever done it or if they have even tried chasing the broadhead or bareshaft. I've given up on trying to explain the same thing over and over unless someone asks me a question via PM. I did a quick bareshaft tune on my new HC today and just for fun I tried moving just the rest. I tried both directions, even though I knew which way was correct, and wouldn't you know it, moving the rest away from the bareshaft POI made things worse.
> 
> To finish the tune I set the rest to dead center centershot, 3/4", and then yoke tuned. I wish I had time to make a good video to counter that backwards tuning guide and thread. I know they meant well when they made it. Just too bad they were using outdated information.


May be outdated but it is still effective... But i am open minded and would like to see a video of this tuning method you guys talk about.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

mhill said:


> May be outdated but it is still effective... But i am open minded and would like to see a video of this tuning method you guys talk about.


No video but here is my tuning thread:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2201440


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mhill said:


> May be outdated but it is still effective... But i am open minded and would like to see a video of this tuning method you guys talk about.


Great thing is that you don't have to see a video. Just go out, move your rest 1/16" to the right and see where your broadheads hit compared to fletched. Then move it back to 1/16" to the left and see where they hit. If when you move the rest to the right, they have a POI left of field points and you fix it by moving the rest to the left, then our point is proven and you can see it first hand. Wouldn't take more than 10 minutes.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

Huntinsker said:


> Great thing is that you don't have to see a video. Just go out, move your rest 1/16" to the right and see where your broadheads hit compared to fletched. Then move it back to 1/16" to the left and see where they hit. If when you move the rest to the right, they have a POI left of field points and you fix it by moving the rest to the left, then our point is proven and you can see it first hand. Wouldn't take more than 10 minutes.


Not this close to the season... Besides i yoke tune my bow... just learning what i can so i can tune other bows when needed.


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## OhioBoneCrusher (Nov 13, 2010)

Tagged


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mhill said:


> Not this close to the season... Besides i yoke tune my bow... just learning what i can so i can tune other bows when needed.


Well if you move it, you can immediately move it right back. I think it's funny that you've argued this ad nauseam but you've not done it and you're not willing to do it. I've even seen you giving advice about it on other threads like you've experienced it yourself. It would take no more than 10 minutes to actually do it. Heck I did it just playing around today. It still didn't take me more than 20 shots to bareshaft tune my bow after messing with it. I think if you give it an actual honest try, you'd immediately see what happens and may learn something about your bow in the process.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

tmorelli said:


> I'm glad you picked the fight. I've been tired of individually telling people that those sources are broadly wrong (outdated to shoot-around rests) and having my manhood questioned as a result.


I just see a lot of bad advice being given out when it comes to bh tuning, and even paper tuning. So many people just read posts on here and have no real experience actually tuning bows. They read a thread on here, a few posts, and a tuning guide and believe it as the correct and only way. I just wanted to try and shed some light on the subject, and I appreciate you weighing in. When Insaw the link that you posted here in this thread, I clicked on it and read over your tuning guide and it's great information, and you know your stuff.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

mhill said:


> you dont make any sense with the left and right broadhead impact. You are correct that when you have a left BH impact that your nock is tearing right. if your move the rest to the left (as if your looking down the arrow from fletch to point) you are moving the rest more out of tune and the nock is now more right of the arrow point. If your referring to turning the bow around so the stabilizer is facing you and you move the rest left then yes we are talking about the same direction.
> 
> So in summary if we are tuning a right hand bow, broadhead are impacting left of FP that means you have a slight nock right tear through paper, to correct this you move the rest right toward the riser, this moves the arrow point to be in alignment with the nock.


In almost every case, if you have a right tear you move the rest left (holding the bow as you would to shoot it) and for left tears you move the rest right (holding the bow as you would shoot it). If yoke tuning, a left tear is fixed by twisting the left yoke and untwisting the right yoke (holding the bow as you would shoot it) and a right tear is fixed by twisting the right yoke and untwisting the left yoke (holding the bow as you would shoot it). 

When I hear the argument that is used so often about moving the rest in the same direction as the tear to "line the arrow up with the nock end", I immediately know that the person giving the advice hasn't tuned very many bows, if any. Reason? They are reasoning as to what makes sense to them in their mind, and not what actually works in the real world. Every now and then you might get a bow that goes against the rules that I have laid out here in this thread, but I'll guarantee you that this method works almost every time.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

mhill said:


> But just because it works does that mean it is correct? Does that mean the arrow will be traveling true? You and Huntinsker say this works and you just said it seems like your moving the rest even more out of tune but it works... have you checked it through paper after? i bet your bow shoots a worse hole then is did before you move the rest more nock right. I realize paper tuning is a starting point but its also an indicator of what your arrow is doing. Im not saying your right or wrong but if something logically does not make sense to me i wont do it.


Take a look at the picture tutorial that I did in this thread. I took pics of original rest position, paper tears, and bh impact. I then moved the rest in the direction that Doc, you, the tuning guides, and so many others say to move the rest, and showed the resulting group. I then moved the rest in the direction that I outline here in this thread, and show the resulting group, and the paper tears from 6-21 ft.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

Huntinsker said:


> Well if you move it, you can immediately move it right back. I think it's funny that you've argued this ad nauseam but you've not done it and you're not willing to do it. I've even seen you giving advice about it on other threads like you've experienced it yourself. It would take no more than 10 minutes to actually do it. Heck I did it just playing around today. It still didn't take me more than 20 shots to bareshaft tune my bow after messing with it. I think if you give it an actual honest try, you'd immediately see what happens and may learn something about your bow in the process.


I gave advice about the way I do it per easton arrow tuning guide. It works i know it works because i have done it every year i hunted and on various bows. I am willing to try it but im not going purposly mess up my bow that is yoke tuned just to test another method. something i can do in the off season. I am always looking to learn things and if this turns out to be a better way to more accuratly tune a bow then im in but if i try it and proves to be ineffective i will just stick with what has worked. From my experience, i have always move the broadhead toward the FP, then i resight in the FP and then shoot a BH, the combination of rest movement and sight movement i have always been able to walk the arrows together. 

so if the broadhead are left of FP, I move the rest right, this also moves the FP right, I move the sight right which brings the FP back to the left and to the spot im aiming. shoot another BH the BH always has moved closer to the FP.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Its not just here.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> Its not just here.


Here is the thing though.... both methods have proven to work. People have had success with both methods. This may be an never ending disagreement until someone publishes something like the easton arrow tuning guide, more and more people will use it as as guide instead of easton. What gets me is the people that BH tune with their sight.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

mhill said:


> Here is the thing though.... both methods have proven to work. People have had success with both methods. This may be an never ending disagreement until someone publishes something like the easton arrow tuning guide, more and more people will use it as as guide instead of easton. What gets me is the people that BH tune with their sight.


Just thinking out loud...

It doesn't stand to reason (beyond simply and incorrectly looking down the shaft and thinking you're pulling the point in front of the tail). 

If a BH hits high vs FP, everyone agrees you move the rest down..... Away from the BH.

But if the BH hits left vs the FP....for some reason the forces change and we're supposed to move it towards the BH?.….... No.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

tmorelli said:


> Just thinking out loud...
> 
> It doesn't stand to reason (beyond simply and incorrectly looking down the shaft and thinking you're pulling the point in front of the tail).
> 
> ...


If the broadhead hits left of field points, then you move the rest left (towards the broadheads). If the broadhead hits high, then you move the rest down, away from broadheads. 

Right tear equals broadheads left. To fix right tear, we move the rest left. Broadheads high equals low tear, to fix low tear, move rest down.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

SlickNickel said:


> If the broadhead hits left of field points, then you move the rest left (towards the broadheads). If the broadhead hits high, then you move the rest down, away from broadheads.
> 
> Right tear equals broadheads left. To fix right tear, we move the rest left. Broadheads high equals low tear, to fix low tear, move rest down.


Yes. I've been at this too long and typed it all wrong.... Facepalm of shame. Too late to fix it now.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

tmorelli said:


> Yes. I've been at this too long and typed it all wrong.... Facepalm of shame. Too late to fix it now.


Lol, no problem.


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## Quickone4u (Sep 22, 2013)

Tag for later.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> Just thinking out loud...
> 
> It doesn't stand to reason (beyond simply and incorrectly looking down the shaft and thinking you're pulling the point in front of the tail).
> 
> ...


Now you see my side a little.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

mhill said:


> Now you see my side a little.


I had a brain fart....but I know what works for me.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

SlickNickel said:


> If the broadhead hits left of field points, then you move the rest left (towards the broadheads). If the broadhead hits high, then you move the rest down, away from broadheads.
> 
> Right tear equals broadheads left. To fix right tear, we move the rest left. Broadheads high equals low tear, to fix low tear, move rest down.


So lets say your setting up the bow for the first time and your paper tuning the bow... you have a right tear. what way do you paper tune your right tears through paper?


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> I had a brain fart....but I know what works for me.


So are you saying that you move your rest away from the BH now? So left impact move your rest to the right? because if you impact high you lower the rest.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

mhill said:


> So are you saying that you move your rest away from the BH now? So left impact move your rest to the right? because if you impact high you lower the rest.


TMorrelli misspoke. He admitted that he misspoke. Here's what I'd like for you to do. So that you may see for yourself, instead of reading something and arguing over and over for it, do as Huntinsker said, and go out and try it.

You say not so close to season, well if you're a good tuner, it won't take you 10 mins to get the bow right back to shooting the way you need it to shoot. I'm not attacking you in any way, but I believe that you probably haven't tuned many bows, or used different methods. I'd say that you read a lot on here, and have learned a lot on here, and have learned to successfully yoke tune your ODB cam bows. That's a great thing, but not everyone has a bow with split yokes, and not everyone has access to a press. If you read my thread, I believe that yoke tuning is a much better method, but it's not always applicable. When you tune bows as a business you have to be able to work on any and all cam systems, so you have to learn about the different cam systems and the ways that you tune them. Me, Tmorrelli, Huntinsker, Bowhuntercliffy, BaldyHunter, etc etc etc, didn't just dream this stuff up, we have tuned many bows, and found this to be the rule. We didn't read threads on AT and believe them to be the gospel, we physically tuned the bows, and seen what works.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

mhill said:


> So are you saying that you move your rest away from the BH now? So left impact move your rest to the right? because if you impact high you lower the rest.


no. example- a left broadhead is the same thing as a tail right and to fix this, you move the rest left....towards the BH.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> no. example- a left broadhead is the same thing as a tail right and to fix this, you move the rest left....towards the BH.


oh i was confused by your correction. Gotcha now.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

SlickNickel said:


> TMorrelli misspoke. He admitted that he misspoke. Here's what I'd like for you to do. So that you may see for yourself, instead of reading something and arguing over and over for it, do as Huntinsker said, and go out and try it.
> 
> You say not so close to season, well if you're a good tuner, it won't take you 10 mins to get the bow right back to shooting the way you need it to shoot. I'm not attacking you in any way, but I believe that you probably haven't tuned many bows, or used different methods. I'd say that you read a lot on here, and have learned a lot on here, and have learned to successfully yoke tune your ODB cam bows. That's a great thing, but not everyone has a bow with split yokes, and not everyone has access to a press. If you read my thread, I believe that yoke tuning is a much better method, but it's not always applicable. When you tune bows as a business you have to be able to work on any and all cam systems, so you have to learn about the different cam systems and the ways that you tune them. Me, Tmorrelli, Huntinsker, Bowhuntercliffy, BaldyHunter, etc etc etc, didn't just dream this stuff up, we have tuned many bows, and found this to be the rule. We didn't read threads on AT and believe them to be the gospel, we physically tuned the bows, and seen what works.


Your assessment is mostly correct. I may be a very young archer but i have learned more in 3 years of being apart of AT then some guys on here that have been here longer and this is the result of me wanting to learn and having constructive debates such as this one. I am not trying to come off as argumentative, i am just trying to get an understanding for it. A person can read another persons work I dont know your archery back ground whether you shoot competitive. I know Tmorelli does, from posts i have seen congratulating him on his win. I understand that different bows have to be tuned differently. So far i have tune my personal bows, Martin cheetah, PSE X force HF and the Destroyer. Also i have tuned my dads Diamond single cam. the only bow that i have yoke tuned was the destroyer. The other bows have yokes but i didnt tune the yokes just rest tuned them for broadheads. I learn more and more on here as i read, and debate with experienced guys like yourself not to argue but to simple debate a topic. If you dont challenge someone knowledge how do you expect to learn. Throughout my college years many professors taught us not to just learn what the teacher says but challenge the professor and question what you are learning. As i said I dont mean it to be argumentative, but if you dont challenge what you learn then how can you grasp the topic or even accredit the info your learning.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

mhill said:


> Your assessment is mostly correct. I may be a very young archer but i have learned more in 3 years of being apart of AT then some guys on here that have been here longer and this is the result of me wanting to learn and having constructive debates such as this one. I am not trying to come off as argumentative, i am just trying to get an understanding for it. A person can read another persons work I dont know your archery back ground whether you shoot competitive. I know Tmorelli does, from posts i have seen congratulating him on his win. I understand that different bows have to be tuned differently. So far i have tune my personal bows, Martin cheetah, PSE X force HF and the Destroyer. Also i have tuned my dads Diamond single cam. the only bow that i have yoke tuned was the destroyer. The other bows have yokes but i didnt tune the yokes just rest tuned them for broadheads. I learn more and more on here as i read, and debate with experienced guys like yourself not to argue but to simple debate a topic. If you dont challenge someone knowledge how do you expect to learn. Throughout my college years many professors taught us not to just learn what the teacher says but challenge the professor and question what you are learning. As i said I dont mean it to be argumentative, but if you dont challenge what you learn then how can you grasp the topic or even accredit the info your learning.


I understand, and you have a good attitude about it. You'll learn a lot and go far. As I said earlier in this thread, I can't scientifically explain why you move the rest right for a left tear, or left for a right tear. If you think about it like you do, it seems logical to move the rest so that the point of the arrow would better line up with the nock of the arrow. All I know is, every bow with a cable slide or roller guard has lateral nock travel, I assume that this is the cause for the rest corrections that we make, and seemingly going in the opposite direction than what makes sense. When we yoke tune a bow, we are essentially tuning out the lateral nock travel, so the rest can remain centered.

Lateral nock travel is how much the nock moves sideways from rest to full draw. In other words, if you were able to mark exactly where the nock is at rest on a sheet of graph paper, and them draw the bow back and mark where the nock is, you would be able to tell how much lateral nock travel that bow has. Lateral nock travel is sideways movement, and vertical nock travel is up and down movement. Some bows will tune with the nock 1/8"-1/4" higher than the arrow rest at static. Why is that? The bow has some vertical nock travel. The nocks position in relation the the arrow rest is different at full draw than it is at brace. Same thing with lateral nock travel. The nocks position in relation to the rest is different at full draw than at brace, it's just moved left or right, instead of up or down.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mhill said:


> I gave advice about the way I do it per easton arrow tuning guide. It works i know it works because i have done it every year i hunted and on various bows. I am willing to try it but im not going purposly mess up my bow that is yoke tuned just to test another method. something i can do in the off season. I am always looking to learn things and if this turns out to be a better way to more accuratly tune a bow then im in but if i try it and proves to be ineffective i will just stick with what has worked. From my experience, i have always move the broadhead toward the FP, then i resight in the FP and then shoot a BH, the combination of rest movement and sight movement i have always been able to walk the arrows together.
> 
> so if the broadhead are left of FP, I move the rest right, this also moves the FP right, I move the sight right which brings the FP back to the left and to the spot im aiming. shoot another BH the BH always has moved closer to the FP.


Okay lets do some critical thinking. We all can agree that the Easton paper tuning guide is correct.......you fix a right tear by moving your rest to the left. We've got that and agree with the guide. So lets say we just paper tuned our bow and got bullet holes at 6 and 8 feet. Then we screw on our fixed blades and after spin testing to make sure they are spinning good, they hit left of our field points by 6" at 40 yards. According to you, we'd now move our rest to the right, the opposite way that we did for the paper tune. This will supposedly move the broadheads and field points together. BUT WAIT!!!!!!! THAT JUST PUT OUR PAPER TUNE BACK TO WHERE IT WAS SO WE'LL HAVE THAT RIGHT TEAR AGAIN!!!!! So how can this be? How can two completely opposite rest moves, get us to the same place? How can turning right and turning left get us to the same location?

The answer is that it can't. If you think about it, you should be able to see how this completely contradicts itself and that if you broadhead tune by moving the rest away from the broadheads POI, it would completely negate a paper or bareshaft tune. We may not be able to completely understand why it happens but that's only because we don't have the equipment to properly study the effects of a rest move on an arrow. If I had a super high speed camera, maybe I could prove how it works but I don't so I just go with the results. The laws of physics will not allow two opposite moves to end up with the same results. Why paper tune one way but broadhead tune the other? It doesn't make any sense.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

Huntinsker said:


> Okay lets do some critical thinking. We all can agree that the Easton paper tuning guide is correct.......you fix a right tear by moving your rest to the left. We've got that and agree with the guide. So lets say we just paper tuned our bow and got bullet holes at 6 and 8 feet. Then we screw on our fixed blades and after spin testing to make sure they are spinning good, they hit left of our field points by 6" at 40 yards. According to you, we'd now move our rest to the right, the opposite way that we did for the paper tune. This will supposedly move the broadheads and field points together. BUT WAIT!!!!!!! THAT JUST PUT OUR PAPER TUNE BACK TO WHERE IT WAS SO WE'LL HAVE THAT RIGHT TEAR AGAIN!!!!! So how can this be? How can two completely opposite rest moves, get us to the same place? How can turning right and turning left get us to the same location?
> 
> The answer is that it can't. If you think about it, you should be able to see how this completely contradicts itself and that if you broadhead tune by moving the rest away from the broadheads POI, it would completely negate a paper or bareshaft tune. We may not be able to completely understand why it happens but that's only because we don't have the equipment to properly study the effects of a rest move on an arrow. If I had a super high speed camera, maybe I could prove how it works but I don't so I just go with the results. The laws of physics will not allow two opposite moves to end up with the same results. Why paper tune one way but broadhead tune the other? It doesn't make any sense.


So basically what your saying is follow the paper tuning guide even with broadheads. 
broadhead high = lower rest or raise d loop
broadhead low = raise rest or lower d loop
broadhead left = rest left 
broadhead right = rest right


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## ToddB (Oct 14, 2008)

You would have to have done a fair amount of tuning, paper, bare shaft and broad head to get it I guess. All 3 are relative to each other. When someone argues these proven methods don't work, well I know to just move along. So many people on this site just regurgitate information. All one has to do is compare there paper results to a bare shaft or broad head , there is no denying what the results show. Just did another last night, ever so slight left tear with a bare shaft, take it out side and bare and broad head impact right. Tweak rest to the RIGHT (no yoke) just a tad and bingo it all comes together. Anyone arguing that it doesn't work, I doubt they have even attempted it. And to the dudes who say I don't move the rest cuz they do it with the yoke, it's the same thing, think about it, the direction your twisting and where it moves the rear of the arrow.


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## sgspencer (Oct 19, 2009)

I just want to make sure about moving the rest. When you say move the rest you are doing this from behind, or the string side of the rest right? In other words, moving the rest left would be moving it left from the string side, not the stabilizer side. Is this correct?


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

sgspencer said:


> I just want to make sure about moving the rest. When you say move the rest you are doing this from behind, or the string side of the rest right? In other words, moving the rest left would be moving it left from the string side, not the stabilizer side. Is this correct?


Yes, that is correct. From behind the bow, just as you would shoot it.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mhill said:


> So basically what your saying is follow the paper tuning guide even with broadheads.
> broadhead high = lower rest or raise d loop
> broadhead low = raise rest or lower d loop
> broadhead left = rest left
> broadhead right = rest right


Exactly. You've got it on the money. That's where I think Easton made their mistake. I don't think they meant to but for some reason, they have gotten the right/left backwards on the broadhead guide. If paper tuning works then you have to broadhead tune the same way. They can not possibly both work while completely opposing each other, just ask congress.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

ToddB said:


> You would have to have done a fair amount of tuning, paper, bare shaft and broad head to get it I guess. All 3 are relative to each other. When someone argues these proven methods don't work, well I know to just move along. So many people on this site just regurgitate information. All one has to do is compare there paper results to a bare shaft or broad head , there is no denying what the results show. Just did another last night, ever so slight left tear with a bare shaft, take it out side and bare and broad head impact right. Tweak rest to the RIGHT (no yoke) just a tad and bingo it all comes together. Anyone arguing that it doesn't work, I doubt they have even attempted it. And to the dudes who say I don't move the rest cuz they do it with the yoke, it's the same thing, think about it, the direction your twisting and where it moves the rear of the arrow.


I agree, some will defend what they have read until the end, having never tried it, or they will claim that they have done it many times when in reality they haven't. There are several guys on here who get it, and several more who have seen the light and admit that this is the real deal. All we can do is try and spread the word, and if they listen great , if they don't listen, let them continue to struggle and post about how they can't get their bow broadhead tuned.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

Huntinsker said:


> Exactly. You've got it on the money. That's where I think Easton made their mistake. I don't think they meant to but for some reason, they have gotten the right/left backwards on the broadhead guide. If paper tuning works then you have to broadhead tune the same way. They can not possibly both work while completely opposing each other, just ask congress.


Well i confirmed it... I went out shooting yesterday and just did my final check for my tune for my bow, i shot some BHs i was 3 inches left, I didnt have my press with me at the public range so i just bumped the rest. I moved it less then a full line so about 1/32 to the left and it brought my FPs and BHs together. You guys made a believer out of me.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

mhill said:


> Well i confirmed it... I went out shooting yesterday and just did my final check for my tune for my bow, i shot some BHs i was 3 inches left, I didnt have my press with me at the public range so i just bumped the rest. I moved it less then a full line so about 1/32 to the left and it brought my FPs and BHs together. You guys made a believer out of me.


Awesome! I'm glad that you got the bow all dialed in, and I'm glad that you found this thread helpful. Thank you for not being afraid to come on this thread and show your success in tuning your bow the way that is described here. A lot of people want to argue that this method is wrong and that Doc's is right, but have never truly tried either one. The best advice that I can give, is don't regurgitate information that you have just read, and not had repeated success with.


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## Bob H in NH (Aug 20, 2002)

Question on yoke tuning. Can you yoke tune a floating yoke? I have a hoyt with the floating yoke, in other words the string is NOT split at each end with a fork going to each axle end. There's a short "yoke" that goes end to end of the axle, the string then inserts into this with the yoke going through the end loop of the string. Also there's no yoke on the bottom axle.

Can this be yoke tuned? I've never tried yoke tuning, I try to get cam lean out when I make the strings and put them on the bow. Adjust after shoot in period. Rest tuning is more simple as no press is needed.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Bob H in NH said:


> Question on yoke tuning. Can you yoke tune a floating yoke? I have a hoyt with the floating yoke, in other words the string is NOT split at each end with a fork going to each axle end. There's a short "yoke" that goes end to end of the axle, the string then inserts into this with the yoke going through the end loop of the string. Also there's no yoke on the bottom axle.
> 
> Can this be yoke tuned? I've never tried yoke tuning, I try to get cam lean out when I make the strings and put them on the bow. Adjust after shoot in period. Rest tuning is more simple as no press is needed.


No. A floating yoke will just continue to find its center. All you have to do though, is serve over the area that the yoke feeds through on the cable. You can start just above that area, serve over that area, and continue down the cable a couple of inches. That will effectively lock down that floating yoke. If you make your own strings, you can very easily convert the bow to a static yoke with a new buss cable. If you buy your strings, just talk with your builder and make sure that he builds you a static yoke for the bow the next time you order.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

SlickNickel said:


> Awesome! I'm glad that you got the bow all dialed in, and I'm glad that you found this thread helpful. Thank you for not being afraid to come on this thread and show your success in tuning your bow the way that is described here. A lot of people want to argue that this method is wrong and that Doc's is right, but have never truly tried either one. The best advice that I can give, is don't regurgitate information that you have just read, and not had repeated success with.


I may dispute things but i will admit if i was wrong. I will have to mess with my bow after the season and see if i can get them to tune using both methods. This may solve some of the dispute between everyone, If both ways are successful then we have been arguing to get the same results.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

mhill said:


> I may dispute things but i will admit if i was wrong. I will have to mess with my bow after the season and see if i can get them to tune using both methods. This may solve some of the dispute between everyone, If both ways are successful then we have been arguing to get the same results.


I know the answer to that question. :wink:


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

mhill said:


> I may dispute things but i will admit if i was wrong. I will have to mess with my bow after the season and see if i can get them to tune using both methods. This may solve some of the dispute between everyone, If both ways are successful then we have been arguing to get the same results.


In all seriousness, thank you for admitting that this worked for you. Many people who argued against it like you did, would not be man enough to admit they were wrong. You, my friend, will do well because you are willing to learn, you want to learn, and seem to be honest about the results. Keep at it my man, you can never learn too much.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

SlickNickel said:


> In all seriousness, thank you for admitting that this worked for you. Many people who argued against it like you did, would not be man enough to admit they were wrong. You, my friend, will do well because you are willing to learn, you want to learn, and seem to be honest about the results. Keep at it my man, you can never learn too much.


I hear that i may be hard headed like my father but i am not pig headed and will admit if my point of view was wrong. Im not sure if the was i broadhead tuned prior was completely wrong because i was able to get them to hit together usually by going rest sight rest sight adjustments i would walk them together but i doubt they shot clean through paper. This just proves there is a better way not discrediting what i have done before, but this way definitely move the arrows together faster.


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## PGFbowhunter (Jun 9, 2013)

Awesome thread!

I had a couple of questions and spoke with SlickNickel, very knowledgeable, and a heck of a nice fellow. I was truly amazed at how much time I saved by tuning with this method. I was set up in minutes! This works just as these guys say it does. Thanks for sharing with all of us


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

PGFbowhunter said:


> Awesome thread!
> 
> I had a couple of questions and spoke with SlickNickel, very knowledgeable, and a heck of a nice fellow. I was truly amazed at how much time I saved by tuning with this method. I was set up in minutes! This works just as these guys say it does. Thanks for sharing with all of us


It was a pleasure talking with you, and I'm glad that I could help. See, folks like you who are willing to listen and learn are why I started this thread, and picked this fight as Tmorrelli said. It was my pleasure to help out.


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

I never realized how important it was to make sure and index all of your arrows. I've been at it all day chasing my bow's tune, pulling out every trick I've ever heard or read, to absolutely no avail getting perfect bullet holes with all my arrows. 

I tried shooting more than just one fixed blade to make sure my bow was tuned well and found the broadheads going all over the place. Ended up marking the arrow's and keeping track and each arrow always hit the same place; unfortunately not where I was aiming. 

After struggling half the day today I realized it wasn't my bow, it was the arrows. I started rotating nocks on the arrows that wouldn't shoot bullet holes and soon enough all my arrows were shooting them. I was convinced it was the bow, but I ended up back where I started with its tune. 

I only had 3 out of 8 arrows that didn't need indexing. Funnest part was figuring out which arrows my bow needed to be tuned to. I got lucky that the 3 arrows were the majority in the same position, and the rest eventually indexed well.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mhill said:


> I may dispute things but i will admit if i was wrong. I will have to mess with my bow after the season and see if i can get them to tune using both methods. This may solve some of the dispute between everyone, If both ways are successful then we have been arguing to get the same results.


That's great that you tried it and had good results. I'm pretty sure that you'll find you can't get the bow to truly tune by using both methods. Logically you can't get the same result by doing opposite things. (2 + 2) = 4 so (2 - 2) can not = 4. If you go through the Easton tune guide, there is a lot of evidence that seems to point to the broadhead guide being for finger shooters only. They left off the compound, release shooters broadhead guide.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

bplayer405 said:


> I never realized how important it was to make sure and index all of your arrows. I've been at it all day chasing my bow's tune, pulling out every trick I've ever heard or read, to absolutely no avail getting perfect bullet holes with all my arrows.
> 
> I tried shooting more than just one fixed blade to make sure my bow was tuned well and found the broadheads going all over the place. Ended up marking the arrow's and keeping track and each arrow always hit the same place; unfortunately not where I was aiming.
> 
> ...


Yep, it can make you chase your tail. That's why I talked about it in the original post. Once you get the bow tuned and shooting your broadheads with field points, then you always want to shoot the other arrows that you're going to be hunting with and see if the nocks need to be rotated.


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

Hello!


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

baldyhunter said:


> Hello!


Post of the year! 

:wink:


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

baldyhunter said:


> Hello!


Hello sir! I didn't find your thread until after I started this one. If I had seen it prior to this, then I would have just bumped yours to the top. I did however post a couple of links to your broadhead tuning thread. After I read that thread, I did some searching on your other threads. You've put a lot of great information on here. I'd like to sit and talk archery with you sometime. Glad you stopped in!


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

I don't worry about it I should a good mech screw them on and they hit where you aim


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

baldyhunter said:


> Hello!


What do you think about the Easton Tuning Guide's take on broadhead tuning. Many seem to think that the guide has it backwards because it was made for finger shooters, and that the mechanical release section of broadhead tuning was left out. Tmorrelli made mention that it could have something to do with the old cushion plunger rests. What say you?


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## wbates (Jul 24, 2010)

tagged


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

SlickNickel said:


> Hello sir! I didn't find your thread until after I started this one. If I had seen it prior to this, then I would have just bumped yours to the top. I did however post a couple of links to your broadhead tuning thread. After I read that thread, I did some searching on your other threads. You've put a lot of great information on here. I'd like to sit and talk archery with you sometime. Glad you stopped in!


I don't visit as much as I used to. But I did pop on a few times and really I like the trend here. Much less holdover knowledge from the finger shooter days is being propagated and that's a good thing. People in general seem to understand the ideas and benefits of Braodhead tuning…or tuning in general (getting your arrows exiting the bow as straight as possible). Not so just 7 or 8 years ago when a solid 50% of the people on this sight generally thought it was a myth. "screw on 10 different types of braodheads see which group the best and readjust your sights", was very all too common advice. One of the last bits of info I see on this sight which I believe is still a holdover from years past is the over mystification of arrow spine and the exaggeration of it's importance. It did used to be important and even critical when people shot with fingers and had to clear risers that had very little room for clearance. I think the best advise for hunters, and fixed blade braodhead users in particular, is to make sure your spine is stiff enough (that's the only reason I recommend TAP) and then tune your bow and tune all your hunting arrows. I think the idea of this magical dynamic spine that offers the best possible groups down range hurts more than helps and with modern equipment out of well tuned bows I just don't believe it to be true. I haven't read the whole OP but it appears we agree on much. As for why the Easton guide has it wrong for modern users is a bit of a mystery to me. I do know that equipment has improved over the years to the point that what was once true simply isn't anymore. I think tmorrelis theory could very well be on the money and the idea that it was made for finger shooters holds water….I don't know. I can only tell you that I've helped braodhead tune hundreds of modern bows and with very few odd exceptions a perfect tune in general (arrows exiting the bow as straight as possible) is also a perfect braodhead tune.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

Great thread!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

baldyhunter said:


> I don't visit as much as I used to. But I did pop on a few times and really I like the trend here. Much less holdover knowledge from the finger shooter days is being propagated and that's a good thing. People in general seem to understand the ideas and benefits of Braodhead tuning…or tuning in general (getting your arrows exiting the bow as straight as possible). Not so just 7 or 8 years ago when a solid 50% of the people on this sight generally thought it was a myth. "screw on 10 different types of braodheads see which group the best and readjust your sights", was very all too common advice. One of the last bits of info I see on this sight which I believe is still a holdover from years past is the over mystification of arrow spine and the exaggeration of it's importance. It did used to be important and even critical when people shot with fingers and had to clear risers that had very little room for clearance. I think the best advise for hunters, and fixed blade braodhead users in particular, is to make sure your spine is stiff enough (that's the only reason I recommend TAP) and then tune your bow and tune all your hunting arrows. I think the idea of this magical dynamic spine that offers the best possible groups down range hurts more than helps and with modern equipment out of well tuned bows I just don't believe it to be true. I haven't read the whole OP but it appears we agree on much. As for why the Easton guide has it wrong for modern users is a bit of a mystery to me. I do know that equipment has improved over the years to the point that what was once true simply isn't anymore. I think tmorrelis theory could very well be on the money and the idea that it was made for finger shooters holds water….I don't know. I can only tell you that I've helped braodhead tune hundreds of modern bows and with very few odd exceptions a perfect tune in general (arrows exiting the bow as straight as possible) is also a perfect braodhead tune.


Hey, thanks for stopping in BaldyHunter.


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## htrain57 (Nov 17, 2008)

Tag


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## Turkey165 (Aug 24, 2009)

I totally agree. I BH tuning this year and have always read to move toward field point. I was about reading to pull my hair out. I kept chasing the FP. Then I thought maybe I read the post wrong. So I moved it the opposite way. BINGO! 70 yrds FMJ Injexions tipped with Muzzy Trocar. I haven't tried beyond that, but I'm confident they would still hit the mark.


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## Ouztse (Jul 28, 2010)

Can you post some pictures of some slightly off tears thru paper. I have done paper tuning alot and when I think it is good and start shooting at longer ranges I can see a "kick" in the arrow coming off the bow. 

Thanks


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Ouztse said:


> Can you post some pictures of some slightly off tears thru paper. I have done paper tuning alot and when I think it is good and start shooting at longer ranges I can see a "kick" in the arrow coming off the bow.
> 
> Thanks


There are some pics in this thread. They start on page 4. If you look at the paper tears on page 4, those were prior to tuning. Now, it's important to note that in that pic, the hole that is the furthest left was shot at 6 ft. It's a pretty darn good tear and a lot of people would have stopped right there. I then backed up to about. 9 ft and a small tear started to open up (second hole from the left in the pic), and then I backed on up to 12 ft and an even bigger hole opened up. I stopped there because I knew there was no need to continue.

Where a lot of people mess up when paper tuning, is when they only shoot through paper at 5-6 ft. A lot of people teach to get bullet holes at 6 ft and you are finished, and that couldn't be further from the truth. Make sure the bow is punching bullets from 6-18 ft or even 6-21 ft. If you look on through the pics continuing to page 5, you see the adjustments that I made to the rest and the resulting groups. Once field points and broadheads have the same poi, I then go back to paper and shoot from 6-21 ft and show the results.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Turkey165 said:


> I totally agree. I BH tuning this year and have always read to move toward field point. I was about reading to pull my hair out. I kept chasing the FP. Then I thought maybe I read the post wrong. So I moved it the opposite way. BINGO! 70 yrds FMJ Injexions tipped with Muzzy Trocar. I haven't tried beyond that, but I'm confident they would still hit the mark.


That's awesome. This is the result of actually trying what I have laid out here, and not just reading information somewhere that has become traditional wisdom and taking it to be truth. Very well done sir.


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## Wv3dfan (Apr 11, 2013)

Slick Nickel knows his stuff!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Bump for the turkey hunters who are broadhead tuning.


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## P&YREAPER (Oct 14, 2010)

SlickNickel said:


> So, once again the method that I describe here in this thread is what fixed the broadhead flight. This has been the norm for me over the last few years, and the reason that I started this thread. I did some reading and saw lots of folks having trouble broadhead tuning, and saying that they moved their rest in the direction that is described in Doc's thread/Slick Trick Website/ Easton Tuning Guide, and the problem wasn't fixed or got worse. This is because in my experience, and proven once again this afternoon, that method is usually wrong. *Now, the bow that I just did this afternoon will get set back to perfect center shot, and will get yoked tuned to get perfect bullet holes at every distance. Then broadheads will be hitting with field points* and the bow will be ready to go to the field. I hope this helps.



Hey Slick, back on page 4 & 5 in the pictorial of you tuning the bh and fp you showed how moving the rest brought them in together for the purpose of proving your point on which way the rest needed to be moved. Once that was done you said that you were going to reset the center shot where it should be and get them hitting together by "yoke tuning". Why? If you have them hitting the same with a slight rest adjustment, why not go with that?


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

P&YREAPER said:


> Hey Slick, back on page 4 & 5 in the pictorial of you tuning the bh and fp you showed how moving the rest brought them in together for the purpose of proving your point on which way the rest needed to be moved. Once that was done you said that you were going to reset the center shot where it should be and get them hitting together by "yoke tuning". Why? If you have them hitting the same with a slight rest adjustment, why not go with that?


Bows with adjustable yokes, such as Hoyts, have more tuning options over bows without adjustable yokes. Bareshaft and broadhead tuning on adjustable yoke bows should be tuned using the yokes first because cam lean plays a major role in how a bow tunes. A lot of times the rest cannot be moved enough to tune these bows if the yoke is out of correct adjustment, or ends up to close or far away from the riser (most likely what he ended up with). Adjustable yoke bows should start the process having the rest set to centershot then yoke tune to bareshaft or broadhead tune. A micro rest adjustment may still need to be done to get the tuning perfect after yoke tuning though.


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## DwayneEnsign (Feb 26, 2015)

wbrandon said:


> My broad heads have been hitting like 2 or 3 inches high. I have moved my sight housing up and now my broad heads fly directly where I'm aiming but now FP are same gap they were before low..should I bare shaft tune?


If broadheads are dead on, why would you do anything. My approach has always been to set pins for field points during off season, and adjust for broadheads when close to hunting season.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

P&YREAPER said:


> Hey Slick, back on page 4 & 5 in the pictorial of you tuning the bh and fp you showed how moving the rest brought them in together for the purpose of proving your point on which way the rest needed to be moved. Once that was done you said that you were going to reset the center shot where it should be and get them hitting together by "yoke tuning". Why? If you have them hitting the same with a slight rest adjustment, why not go with that?


I moved the rest just to show the direction in which the rest needs to be moved in order to fix left/right impacts. On bows with adjustable yokes though, I prefer to keep the arrow "centered" at the correct center shot location and then adjust the yokes to tune for arrow flight.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

DwayneEnsign said:


> If broadheads are dead on, why would you do anything. My approach has always been to set pins for field points during off season, and adjust for broadheads when close to hunting season.


If you have the correct arrows, and a properly tuned bow, then there is no need to re-sight your bow to shoot broadheads. You can practice with field points, and then switch to broadheads and still have the same poi. When you accomplish this, your bow is well tuned, and there is no need to re sight.


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## chindits (Feb 5, 2015)

So what to do if I have a nock left tear, which correlates to my broadhead hitting right, and there is no change even if I max out my right adjustment on my arrow rest. The bow is yoke less, I have 29.5 inches of 300 shaft, 125 gr points and the 60-70 pound draw weight is down in the low 60s. Same results with some of my 340 shafts.


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## WildmanWilson (Jul 30, 2009)

Good information...


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## Trevor02TA (Sep 8, 2009)

tagged for later


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

chindits said:


> So what to do if I have a nock left tear, which correlates to my broadhead hitting right, and there is no change even if I max out my right adjustment on my arrow rest. The bow is yoke less, I have 29.5 inches of 300 shaft, 125 gr points and the 60-70 pound draw weight is down in the low 60s. Same results with some of my 340 shafts.


Does the left tear clear up when you move the rest to the right? Or does both the tear and the bh poi stay the same as you move your rest?


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## chindits (Feb 5, 2015)

Sorry Slick, I gave up for a little bit. I just sent you a p.m. with the ongoing dilemma.


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## BGagner (Oct 21, 2014)

Tagged!


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## Franklin7x57 (Mar 28, 2010)

Stupid question, if you didn't want to mess with your rest, could you adjust your poundage of your bow? Broadheads hitting to left of fieldpoints decrease poundage, or increase poundage???


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## leveralone (Jan 23, 2010)

Tagged. Great thread.


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## msteff (Apr 5, 2013)

Tagged


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## lakertown24 (Mar 3, 2013)

Marked to read


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

07commander said:


> I don't know if it's miscommunication, or if I'm missing something.. If the back of the arrow is on the string, it's not going to move side to side when you move the rest. Therefore, when you move the rest to the right, the point of the arrow is going to swing to the right.


I tend to agree with this also, as the nock would be the pivot point, and the front of the arrow would move in the direction the rest is moved. Can't see how a rest moves the rear of an arrow, considering a dropaway, when the front half of the arrow gets most of the guidance from the rest?


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## WAH0918 (Dec 28, 2014)

Tagged.


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## cloquet (Jan 12, 2004)

ttt


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## bplayer405 (Jan 7, 2014)

Proper tuning is crucial. I use bareshaft tuning to get as close as possible. Then I move to broadhead tuning.










This is from 50 yds, broadhead mainly hitting high. Same as a low tear by paper tuning. 










This was achieved with a half twist out of the control cable. It just shows how important it is to have your bow well tuned. At 50 yds it exaggerates the tune so you can see what's going on very well, but I was already very close at 20-30 yds. The longer distance showed me exactly what to do.


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## Etheis (Sep 28, 2013)

Bump


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

Bump this up for hunting season.


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## Da Nooch (Jun 3, 2011)

Thanks for the write up SlickNickle...very informative and makes perfect sense. Tagged


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## reddogjack (Dec 7, 2016)

thanks Slick,
Great info on broadhead tuning


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## TexasBowman11 (Oct 17, 2012)

I would like to bring this thread back up because i am having a hard time understanding my tuning issues. I shot about 100 arrows today broadhead tuning. QAD Exodus and Strickland Helix were impacting 4" right of FPs at 40 yards. The German Kinetic XLs were hitting 8" right at 40 yards. In small increments I moved the rest left (away from riser) and until I actually went a little too far and had the QAD and Helix hitting left of FPs. I then moved rest back in (right) just a hair and got them to stack with FPs. Unfortunately the GK XLs were always hitting right of FPs. Totally baffling to me that he broadhead tuning (chasing the FPS with the rest) worked so well for the QAD and Helix but not the GK XLs. The best I could do with the GKs was get them about 3" right at 40 yards. Could be a spine issue but I am interested to move the rest back to the right to see if that will stack my GKs with the FPs. 

Any more clarification from the posters on this thread? Was a consensus ever reached on which way to move the rest?? Thanks!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

TexasBowman11 said:


> I would like to bring this thread back up because i am having a hard time understanding my tuning issues. I shot about 100 arrows today broadhead tuning. QAD Exodus and Strickland Helix were impacting 4" right of FPs at 40 yards. The German Kinetic XLs were hitting 8" right at 40 yards. In small increments I moved the rest left (away from riser) and until I actually went a little too far and had the QAD and Helix hitting left of FPs. I then moved rest back in (right) just a hair and got them to stack with FPs. Unfortunately the GK XLs were always hitting right of FPs. Totally baffling to me that he broadhead tuning (chasing the FPS with the rest) worked so well for the QAD and Helix but not the GK XLs. The best I could do with the GKs was get them about 3" right at 40 yards. Could be a spine issue but I am interested to move the rest back to the right to see if that will stack my GKs with the FPs.
> 
> Any more clarification from the posters on this thread? Was a consensus ever reached on which way to move the rest?? Thanks!


When you were making the rest adjustments, were you shooting a field point and broadhead both, every time to see the poi difference between the two once adjustments were made?


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