# Dot or Circle



## 4ferraros (Dec 14, 2013)

Currently I am using a 4x with a dot . I started with a dot that is about the size of the 10 ring on a Vegas target but recently tried a bigger dot that almost covers all of the gold. It seems like it is giving me the illusion of less movement but there is no way of focusing on the ten or x ring now that the dot covers almost all of the gold. Thinking about trying a circle just to see what it would be like to just focus on the x . Just wondering what everyone here uses and why ??


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

you'll probably find that most guys use a dot. I don't really think because it's better than a ring, I think it's just what they were told to use when they started and never tried or changed anything since.

I've used a ring since about 2000, because I discovered I was having problems, deliberately moving my dot out of my line of sight, to see the x. I switched to a ring and it made all the difference in the world. for me. 
the point is that you have to try different things that puts your aiming process at ease. you have to find what your aiming process likes to look at. there's been enough research done on this specific issue, that supports the theory, that your aiming process should be relaxed and unstressed, in order to produce the best results. one of the major elements of this relaxed condition, is whether or not your aiming process has issues with what it has to look at, as it works.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

I'm in the same boat as ron. I was peeking behind the dot/pin to see the X as if it had ran away from me. The moment I put on a ring, I was a lot more relaxed. Now I can just stare at the spot I want to hit and forget about aiming.

Precision Archery Reticles makes a great set of rings. http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bow...ope-sight-accessories.html?manufacturer=10940


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## 4ferraros (Dec 14, 2013)

I shot next to a Mathews Pro Shooter this weekend and he said the same thing . He was using a 3x with a circle with a very small dot in the middle. Said he sees very little movement which keeps him relaxed. How big of a circle do you use ? Is it inside the gold or does it border the gold and red rings ?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I have been using a pin that covers the 10 ring this winter and so far I have been enjoying it. I can see where some guys get to moving it over to look behind it to see the x and that being a problem but I haven't had that problem yet.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

my ring is about 5/16ths. diameter, it fits just inside the white on a 5 spot target with my 4 power lens and allows me to maintain good concentration on the x with my usual float range. 
the key is to try different diameters and different line boldness, until you find what you like to see. everybody's eyesight will be different and peep size, sight focal distance, lens power and whether you need a clarifier, or not will effect how the ring fits the target. all you can do is experiment, until you find the right diameter and line boldness that you prefer.
trying different rings is an aspect, I can't stress enough. everybody has a specific sight picture that puts their sight process at ease, and you have to find that picture for yourself.


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## 4ferraros (Dec 14, 2013)

Good stuff !! Thanks for the info. I went from using a clarifier to a 1/16th aperture to a 3/32 aperture for my 4x just to reduce the movement and that has helped alot .


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I've shot with a ring and didn't care for it, not that it didn't work. I've used dots and they worked. One dot I used was big enough to cover the white 5 bull's eye. White covered it was a sure 5 points. Another I consider one of the better Vegas face shooters once used a good size dot, but one that was well within the 9 ring and he let the dot settle to the bottom of the 9. Said it gave vertical and horizontal position.

And I've read of "seeing" the X. Many of the articles tell of the eyes or brain "peeking," wanting to make the sure X is there and why some can plainly see the X, their pin off, and still hit the X.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

ron w said:


> my ring is about 5/16ths. diameter, it fits just inside the white on a 5 spot target with my 4 power lens and allows me to maintain good concentration on the x with my usual float range.
> the key is to try different diameters and different line boldness, until you find what you like to see. everybody's eyesight will be different and peep size, sight focal distance, lens power and whether you need a clarifier, or not will effect how the ring fits the target. all you can do is experiment, until you find the right diameter and line boldness that you prefer.
> trying different rings is an aspect, I can't stress enough. everybody has a specific sight picture that puts their sight process at ease, and you have to find that picture for yourself.


Yup, I agree again.

I enjoy the precision archery reticles because of the larger rings. I have it set up so the inside of the ring matches the yellow on the vegas spot. This is with a 6x lens + #2 clarifier.

A good cheap way to try different sized rings is to get these from Specialty Archery. You can put all of the rings on at once and peel/restick to get the right combination - http://www.lancasterarchery.com/specialty-super-circles-dots-black-orange-yellow.html It can be tedious, but worked great for me.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

There are three or so basic ways you you can set up a indoor scope and you really need to just try each of them and one of them will stand out as your favorite. I screwed around and did the .19 pin thing and then a big black dot that covered the whole white area and then the little ring but I never tried a small dot that covers the x only. This year I did finally cover the 5-spot x or the vegas 10 only and I really like this the best so far. For me it is very relaxing and easy to float directly over the area and it masks little irregularities in my float really well and doesn't freak me out. I do find myself creating holes in the target that are off center sometimes and then the arrow gravitates into that off center hole and I think the reason is that my pin is blue and it blends into the off center hole and I end up aiming a little off center. Other than that I really like it.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

I use a ring that fits around the white on a 5 spot target with a real small dot and I mean small. Here's a brief description of how I align everything. I line up peep to sight housing, then circle to the 5 ring when. When am aligned up the dot disappears in the X literally I can't see it at all. This helps me relax and just trust my float. The nice thing about the dot is that it can't be seen during my shot but provides me a reference when I align. It also helps me notice when my shot sequence has go to hell because it pops up out of know where and I know immediately some thing is amiss and I shut the shot down and start over. Now I will preface this I suck with an up pin because I can't get used to seeing a dot my brain says stop the shot because its there, even if its in the right place, so if you are a 3D guy I would not use my method I struggle with 3D because of it. Hope this helps or even makes sense.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that just shows you how personal a thing it is. I get the same relaxed feeling with the ring, that Padgett gets with the small dot. when I use a dot, I can't seem to help but notice every bit of movement, and my float moves allot, so it doesn't work for me. with the ring I just focus on the center and the ring moves where it may, but it doesn't attract my attention.


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## 4ferraros (Dec 14, 2013)

If I remember correctly Larry Wise wrote in his book "Core Archery" he liked to use a yellow ring . When I read that I thought that was different but now I can see that might even show less movement. I do have the Speciality Archery pack of dots and circles. It came with black,orange and yellow. Might have to experiment with all sizes and colors.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

I shoot more relaxed with a circle because any movement that might be there is not noticed. The circle is pretty heavy due to my not so great eyesight. I make the circles myself. They are made of red reflective tape. The one I use is probably about 3/8" in dia. I cut the outer circle with a tool used to cut holes for grommets in tarps. The inner circle is cut with a piece of radio antenna that the kids broke off a portable radio. Don't know the size, but it feels just right. I'm not sure the size is that important as long as you can see precisely what you're shooting at. 

If you've never ******* engineered stuff like this you're really missing out on some of the fun of archery. :wink:


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

ring colors should be included, as well. I tried yellow, red and black for spots. settled on black. when I shot 3d, my first thoughts were that black might not be a good color, because of the darker colors of the critters, but it worked out fine, although I never really tried different colors for 3d, because my 3d rig was also my spot bow, and I wasn't going to fool with that set up.


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## CGcook (Nov 25, 2012)

What it really comes down to is just trying it, don't get caught up in finding a setup that works from someone else is gonna work for you. Try a dot, try a ring, try a combo of both, you need to find what sight picture gives you the most consistency. For my with a ring I found that I was concentrating more on the ring then the target, it all depends on what your sight picture is in your mind. You need to find that repeatable picture that gives you results.


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## 60435 (Mar 20, 2012)

my set up i use a dot of paint on a 6x lens at full extension of 12inches, gives me a very small dot that fits in the baby x . very few people are able to use this set up most people this causes dizziness and tp
my peep is custom made 1/64th 2/64th and 3/64 depending on lighting with this set up on a 5 spot i only have white in my lens and its crystal clear without my glasses


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

yup,.... "just trying it, ....everybody has a sight picture that they will prefer to see. finding that one picture is the key to putting your sight process at ease.....working at full capacity, yet relaxed to the point that is doesn't feel like it's taking much effort to do.
the only way to find that picture, is to try different combinatiions of peep size, sight distance and rings or dots.


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## 4ferraros (Dec 14, 2013)

I tried the ring but I did not have a clear picture of the gold. I am using a 3/32 aperture with my 4x . My son is using my 1/16 so I will try again when he is not shooting with me. Also tried clarifier but was too dark . It is amazing how many different combinations can make such a difference. Will keep at it.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

watch that you don't use a ring that is too small. the smaller it is, the harder it is to focus through. that will put your sight process under probably about the most tension you can, because it will neither, function as a ring, or a dot, because your trying to focus through it and can't.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Lazarus said:


> I shoot more relaxed with a circle because any movement that might be there is not noticed. The circle is pretty heavy due to my not so great eyesight. I make the circles myself. They are made of red reflective tape. The one I use is probably about 3/8" in dia. I cut the outer circle with a tool used to cut holes for grommets in tarps. The inner circle is cut with a piece of radio antenna that the kids broke off a portable radio. Don't know the size, but it feels just right. I'm not sure the size is that important as long as you can see precisely what you're shooting at.
> 
> If you've never ******* engineered stuff like this you're really missing out on some of the fun of archery. :wink:


About the same here. I use a leather punch and cartridge case mouths that have been sharpened. The sticker itself is a plain black arrow wrap. 

I can't remember what size mine is exactly. I think the outside is a 45acp and the inside is either a .308, 7mm, or 243 case mouth. I used to do a lot of reloading lol.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Outstanding idea/tip erdman41. I'm going to toy with that. :thumbs_up


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## JF from VA (Dec 5, 2002)

I do the same as erdman41. I have a drawer full of various caliber brass cases and use a Lee chamfering tool to sharpen the case mouths. Using these, I can punch out about any size I want.


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