# NFAA Traditional able to shoot in USAA Barebow



## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

Conversely, if I'm following your logic, then a USAA BB archer should be able to shoot in NFAA Trad by allowing his stringwalking to compensate for the lack of a 12" stab.


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## dragonheart II (Aug 20, 2010)

Equipment rules are made to make the competition fair. In competition you simply comply with the rules of the class. You would not be legal to compete with a 12" stabilizer in WA BB. The rules are the rules. 

If the equipment playing field is fair, then the competition is fair. 

FYI There is no BHFSL anymore. Longbow is gone also. One of the difficulties archery faced early on was there being too many classes evolving as technology changed. 

An example of the opposite is Golf. Golf early on put equipment restriction that kept it basically one game. What would golf be like if electronic sighting devices and pendulum putters were allowed.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

WA rules do not allow for stabilization, clickers, or compounds in its Barebow class.

NFAA added a WA barebow-compliant class in November, as follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barebow Recurve
1. This style of shooting is for those who wish to compete with the Recurve or Longbow.
2. Archers shooting Barebow Recurve style will use bow, arrows, strings, and accessories 
free from any sights, marks or blemishes that may be used as a sighting aid. No 
laminations, marks or blemishes on the face of the bow or in the sight window will be 
legal. Multi-colored bow risers, and trademarks located on the inside of the upper and 
lower limb or on the riser are permitted.
3. An arrow rest and cushion plunger are permitted. There shall be no device, mechanical or 
otherwise, in the sight window except the arrow rest, arrow plate or plunger button.
4. No clickers, draw checks or levels will be allowed.
5. Weight(s) may be added to the lower part of the riser. All weights, regardless of shape, 
shall mount directly to the riser without rods, extensions, angular mounting connection or 
shock-absorbing devises.
6. The unstrung bow complete with permitted accessories shall be capable of passing through 
a hole or ring with a 12.2 cm inside diameter +/- 0.5 mm.
7. The string may be any color but must have a single color center serving. Brush buttons 
and string silencers, properly placed, may be used.
8. One consistent nocking point only is permitted and may be held by one or two nock 
locators.
9. Face walking and string walking are allowed.
10. Gloves, tabs or fingers shall be the only legal releases. Marks or lines may be added 
directly to the tab and shall be uniform in size, shape and color. In the case of physical 
disability of the arms or hands, a chew strap may be used in place of fingers.
11. All arrows used shall be identical in length, weight, diameter, fletching, and nocks, 
without regard to color, with allowance for wear and tear.
12. No part of the arrow rest, cushion plunger or arrow plate may extend more than ¼ inch 
above the arrow in the sight window.
13. Adult and Senior only.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NFAA updated its Barebow class too, removing the stabilizer length restriction.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barebow:
1. Archers shooting Barebow style will use bow, arrows, strings, and accessories free from 
any sights, marks or blemishes that may be used as a sighting aid.
2. An adjustable arrow plate may be used provided it does not extend more than ¼” above 
the arrow.
3. The use of stabilizers shall be permitted. The rear stabilizer shall not touch any part of the 
body.
4. One consistent nocking point only is permitted and may be held by one or two nock 
locators, which shall be snap on type, shrink tubing, thread or dental floss, tied or served 
on the serving. Nocking point locators shall not extend more than one half inch (1/2”) 
above or below the arrow nock when at full draw.
5. Only one adjustable draw check and level mounted on the bow, neither of which may 
extend above the arrow and a mechanical type arrow rest and cushion plunger are 
permitted.
6. Only gloves, tabs, or fingers shall be permitted, except in the case of physical disability of 
the arms or hands, a chew strap may be used in place of fingers.
7. All arrows shall be identical in length, weight, diameter and fletching, with allowance for 
wear and tear. Powder on the arrow points shall be permitted as a visual aid.
8. The ends or edges or laminated pieces appearing on the inside of the upper limb shall be 
considered a sighting mechanism.
9. No device of any kind, not including arrow rest, arrow plate or plunger button, that can be 
used for sighting, will be used or attached to the archer’s equipment.
10. The pylon (string clearance bar) will be allowed in this style if it is not located in the sight 
window.
11. No part of the arrow rest may extend more than ¼ inch above the arrow in the sight 
window.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

*Possible but, the major difference is that a SW has their left/right and point on. Where a Trad archer doesn't. So, I would argue that it's not the same class. I thought if you shot up a class was okay but, shooting down a class would require the archer to adjust the equipment.*


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

dragonheart II said:


> Equipment rules are made to make the competition fair. In competition you simply comply with the rules of the class. You would not be legal to compete with a 12" stabilizer in WA BB. The rules are the rules.
> 
> If the equipment playing field is fair, then the competition is fair.
> 
> ...


*It's more about shooting up a class or down a class. As far as rules are rules that is a red herring. Rules, change all the time. The NFAA changed them from the pressure the BB community thought it was unfair to have a recurve archer go head to head with a compound archer shooting the same way but, with cams and a let-off. The argument had at least some of form of what the disadvantage is between compound and recurve. 
Again, if USAA sees Trad as a different class, even recognizing it as a harder style, then what is the harm. Is the harm, because "they said" or "that is the rule"... *


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## dragonheart II (Aug 20, 2010)

Maybe shoot what you enjoy and find a class that the equipment fits into.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Of course not.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

grantmac said:


> Of course not.


* "BB(USAA) is considered a more advanced style of aiming then Trad(NFAA) style." You don't think so?*


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

equilibrium said:


> * "BB(USAA) is considered a more advanced style of aiming then Trad(NFAA) style." You don't think so?*


Well first of all, be aware that NFAA at our 2019 meeting revamped the available Styles, so they are not the same as the list you provided.

1. FS
2. BHFS
3. FSL
4. BHFSL Was discontinued a few years ago
5. FSLR
6. BB compound
7. BB recurve New style added for 2020
8. Trad
9. LB New style added for 2020

Many archers shooting NFAA Trad or NFAA Longbow would be able to shoot in USAA Barebow assuming the Trad do not use (or would remove) their stabilizer and that their bow is shaped so it fits through the requisite (12cm?) diameter ring. And supposedly ALL archers shooting NFAA Barebow Recurve would be able to shoot in USAA Barebow.

From the other side, all archers shooting USAA Barebow would be able to shoot in the NFAA Barebow Recurve, or COULD shoot in NFAA Traditional if they do NOT stringwalk or facewalk.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

wa-prez said:


> Well first of all, be aware that NFAA at our 2019 meeting revamped the available Styles, so they are not the same as the list you provided.
> 
> 1. FS
> 2. BHFS
> ...


*Your a great one to ask. You have a lot of knowledge of finger shooting. 
Would you consider NFAA Trad to be a class below Barebow Recurve (string-walking)?*


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Nothing about being "above or below", NFAA trad equipment doesn't fit BB rules. It's that simple.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

equilibrium said:


> *You are a great one to ask. You have a lot of knowledge of finger shooting.
> Would you consider NFAA Trad to be a class below Barebow Recurve (string-walking)?*


As far as scoring capability, I haven't shot Traditional but have shot USAA Barebow.

I think the string walking boosts scores (at least in multiple distance events) more than the lack of a 12" stabilizer takes away.

So when I list score reports, I use the order as you showed them:

1. FS
2. BHFS
3. FSL
4. BHFSL Was discontinued a few years ago
5. FSLR
6. BB compound
7. BB recurve New style added for 2020
8. Trad
9. LB New style added for 2020

That puts them approximately in order by score of the top shooters in each style.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

wa-prez said:


> As far as scoring capability, I haven't shot Traditional but have shot USAA Barebow.
> 
> I think the string walking boosts scores (at least in multiple distance events) more than the lack of a 12" stabilizer takes away.
> 
> ...


*Right on. Thanks for the info.*


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Where was there a Length of Stabilizer in NFAA BB??


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

archer_nm said:


> Where was there a Length of Stabilizer in NFAA BB??


I don't think there ever was a limit on stabilizer length in NFAA Barebow. I've been shooting since 1979, and started out in Barebow and shot that style for many years before going to BHFSL then to FSL.

A lot of people get Barebow and Bowhunter mixed up, particularly since NFAA 3D rules combined the two for a while.

Bowhunter did have a 12" limit - and that style does not exist anymore in NFAA.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

wa-prez said:


> ...A lot of people get Barebow and Bowhunter mixed up, particularly since NFAA 3D rules combined the two for a while.
> 
> Bowhunter did have a 12" limit - and that style does not exist anymore in NFAA.


Aha! That is exactly what the NFAA clubs were doing in my area. They were doing 3D shoots only, combined Barebow and Bowhunter, and created their own recurve and longbow variants too. I was always pushing to follow the standard but they were recalcitrant, unwilling to let some national organization tell them what to do. In their defense, they were uninterested in hosting sanctioned tournaments and most tournament attendees had gone compound - BH in the case of one and BHFS in the other. A third club where I served on the board was trad crazy and not even attempting to follow any equipment classes or tournament rounds. With the fourth one, we ultimately dropped our NFAA charter and secured insurance elsewhere - it has a pure hunting focus, hosts virtually no tournaments, and has no public access. Although I remain with one of those clubs, I switched to USA Archery in favor of their structure and organization. I may wander back into NFAA a bit now that they support my equipment class and I have time to pursue it.


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## FLlongshot (Jan 2, 2008)

So, NFAA finally decided to incorporate a BB recurve class to mirror the world standard. Great. At the same meeting they voted to re-create the longbow class with rules that are contrary to every other longbow class in the world with the allowance of any type of arrow. How do they come up with this nonsense and what is the possible benefit? Bizzaro.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

FLlongshot said:


> So, NFAA finally decided to incorporate a BB recurve class to mirror the world standard. Great. At the same meeting they voted to re-create the longbow class with rules that are contrary to every other longbow class in the world with the allowance of any type of arrow. How do they come up with this nonsense and what is the possible benefit? Bizzaro.


*I was talking about this with some LB archers. One of the comments they made was about wood grains, more about the cell structure of woods that are currently available. It was just over my head, I don't shoot wood arrows. They implied that allowing a more stable material to be used would lead to more success in a discipline of archery that is already very difficult. 
I'm sure, I'm not doing there comments justice. I think the over-all theme is correct. I asked them to post here and they laughed and politely said, no. *


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## FLlongshot (Jan 2, 2008)

All due respect, the overall theme is not only incorrect it's absurd. There is plenty of good wood available today and it takes the same amount of time and care that it always has to produce decent matched shafts. Tim Johnson shot 259/262 at the 2019 Indoor Nat's with wooden arrows out of a longbow. John Demmer shot an unbelievable 276 on the WA 40cm this year at the USA Nat's with wooden arrows. Nonsense. I understand that this is not your doing lol but, wood grain blah blah blah... BS. Why the NFAA would introduce a class that is not compliant with the rest of the world is beyond me. How many guys do they really think will show up to shoot longbows off the shelf with carbon/aluminum arrows? Hell, they don't show up in Trad except for the Indoors and most of them are shooting ILF with short stabs. They've created a class of archer whose equipment doesn't comply and as such can't compete at any event in the world with with the exception of the IBO Trad Worlds.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

*Good point. 
Your right, they don't show up. 
I've seen 5+ trad (recurve) at local club shoots and at the end of the weekend. The club doesn't announce the trad scores because, no one turned in their score card. I turn mine in. 
That can have an affect on organizations and clubs that trad isn't to be taken serious. We have to show up, shoot and turn in a record of us being there. Others, will see it and make strides to shoot trad gear and goals that shows them it can be done. They can be part of the history and future of our style.*


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

FLlongshot said:


> All due respect, the overall theme is not only incorrect it's absurd. There is plenty of good wood available today and it takes the same amount of time and care that it always has to produce decent matched shafts. Tim Johnson shot 259/262 at the 2019 Indoor Nat's with wooden arrows out of a longbow. John Demmer shot an unbelievable 276 on the WA 40cm this year at the USA Nat's with wooden arrows. Nonsense. I understand that this is not your doing lol but, wood grain blah blah blah... BS. Why the NFAA would introduce a class that is not compliant with the rest of the world is beyond me. How many guys do they really think will show up to shoot longbows off the shelf with carbon/aluminum arrows? Hell, they don't show up in Trad except for the Indoors and most of them are shooting ILF with short stabs. They've created a class of archer whose equipment doesn't comply and as such can't compete at any event in the world with with the exception of the IBO Trad Worlds.


FL the longbow class was brought back to build up Membership and to give local longbow shooters a place to fit. You are right it’s not totally compliant. But if you choose to be compliant with other organizations you can and you will still be compliant with NFAA.


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## FLlongshot (Jan 2, 2008)

I know they want to increase membership and participation. The solution is not to remove the single most important defining characteristic and pretend it's the same class. The difference between wood shafts and carbon/aluminum is a big deal, not a common sense accommodation to facillitate inclusiveness. If they want to attract the largest number of traditional type shooters they should create a class with no elevated rest, no plunger, off the shelf, any arrow, no stabs, no weights similar to IBO recurve. If you're going to create an inclusive class that recognizes "instinctive" style shooters why limit it to longbows.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

FL we are not pretending anything in the new longbow class we are bringing people back. In CA. we have added two Longbow classes. Wood arrows and any arrow. Two years now our longbow classes have tripled in size. Its about membership not what some think the longbow class should be.


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Linda we both know that but someone above made this comment!!!!


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## joe doornenbal (Jan 4, 2020)

I'm just starting back into competitive archery and am wanting to shoot BB as I had done many years ago while living in Central California. I am living near Salem Oregon and hope to join an archery club. Any advice on where to go will be much appreciated and who to contact as well. Reading this thread so far I find that a new BB Recurve class apart from BB Compound is available which suits me well, because I enjoy shooting the target recurve bows as well as the compounds.... Thank You! joe


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

Oregon has a good group of Barebow shooters and host an annual indoor Barebow Challenge and also participate in the annual Sherwood shoot.









Here's a contact:

>From: James R. Benson [mailto:[email protected]] 
>Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 9:49 AM

>Subject: Oregon Barebow Challenge
>
>Laurie Robinson suggested that I forward this flyer to you, for inclusion with the WA-Archery members.
>
>The Oregon Barebow Challenge is a two day Double FITA tournament, that draws Barebow Recurve Archers from around the Northwest and beyond. The 2020 tournament will be held January 11th and 12th at Archers Afield in Tigard, Oregon. Please see the attached flyer for details.
>We encourage all ages and skill levels to come out and experience the giddy magic of lines of Barebow archers, shooting their form! This is a tremendous opportunity to reconnect with a strong and growing division of the target archery world. We look forward to seeing you there.
>
>Sincerely,
>James R. Benson
>503-709-8484


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## joe doornenbal (Jan 4, 2020)

*New BB shooter.*

I'm just starting back into competitive archery and am wanting to shoot BB as I had done many years ago while living in Central California. I am living near Salem Oregon and hope to join an archery club. Any advice on where to go will be much appreciated and who to contact as well. Reading this thread so far I find that a new BB Recurve class apart from BB Compound is available which suits me well, because I enjoy shooting the target recurve bows as well as the compounds.... Thank You! joe


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

Here is the place to start looking for all info about archery in Oregon

http://www.oregonbowhunters.com/

Eugene Oregon annually hosts a GREAT shoot called the Greater Oregon Safari. It draws archers from several states.


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## jamesdof (Jan 26, 2020)

I don't think there ever was a limit on stabilizer length in NFAA Barebow.


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