# 2011 Annual Meeting ideas



## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i'm gonna start another one. this time earlier so that members as a whole can add their thoughts, refine potential submissions and have the state and sectional guys (that read AT, let alone comment) get an idea of what we, as members are looking for in future inclusion.



ok.....as i was re-re-reading the explanation of the Novelty Field round, i started wondering about target availabilty and the asterisk for the first target size. i dont know if the 15-30-45-60cm targets are in print or not.

what is contained in the amplifying portion with the asterisk and the last line of Option 2 can be confusing. this will also reduce the intimidation factor that newer field archers may have when trying this round when they see the size of the targets.

i think for simplicity and reducing/eliminating possible confusion about targets, to change the target sizes to the standard field round sized targets of 20-35-50-65cm and to remove the following lines: 

_**This size face was initially developed in case this target would some day be considered as a replacement of the current field faces.
Option #2:
These targets could be adopted to replace the current field round targets.*_






_The NFAA Novelty Field Round
The Targets:
*15 cm-15cm. Outside diameter, with an outer black ring lying within 15 cm and ending at
10 cm scored 3.
A white “4” ring from 10- cm to 5 cm.
A black “5” ring from 5 cm down to and including the white “X”.
A white “X” ring (scored 5) of 2.5 cm with an “X” in the middle,
30cm-30cm outside diameter, with an outer black ring lying within 30 cm and ending at 20
cm, scored 3.
A white “4” ring from 20 cm to 10 cm.
A black “5” ring from 10 cm down to and including the white “X”.
A white “X” ring (scored 5) of 5 cm with an “X” in the middle.
45 cm-45 cm outside diameter, with an outer black ring lying within 45 cm and ending at
30 cm, scored 3.
A white “4” ring from 30 cm to 15 cm.
A black “5” ring from 15cm down to and including the white “X”.
A white “X” ring (scored 5) of 7.5 cm with an “X” in the middle.
60 cm-60 cm outside diameter, with an outer black ring lying within 60 cm and ending at
40 cm, scored 3.
A white “4” ring from 40 cm to 20 cm.
A black “5” ring from 20 cm down to and including the white “X”.
A white “X” ring (scored 5) of 10 cm with an “x” in the middle.

The Round
The archer will shoot 3 arrows at each of the following distances at the targets noted.
There are 10 targets per half, 20 per round; for a total of 60 shots (same as indoor).
Possible score =300 +60 X’s.
The 30 cm target will be used at the following distances: 20,25, & 30 yards.
The 45 cm target will be shot at the following distances: 35, 40, 45 & 50 yards.
The 60 cm target will be shot at the following distances: 55, 60 & 65 yards.
Similar to the field round, archers shall shoot from opposite sides after the first half (i. e.
left to right and vice versa). Also, the first shooters will shoot bottom targets (on the 30 cm
faces), the second shooter(s) shall shoot top targets and change at the half.
4 target faces will be available to shoot whenever the 30 cm size is used. A single target
face is used at all other distances, with the option of double-targeting the 45 cm faces.
*This size face was initially developed in case this target would some day be considered as a replacement of the current field faces.
Option #2:
These targets could be adopted to replace the current field round targets.
_


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Here's an idea - anyone who claims to be "Pro-Staff" for any archery product would be required to pay Pro dues and shot with the "professionals". :teeth:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Here's an idea - anyone who claims to be "Pro-Staff" for any archery product would be required to pay Pro dues and shot with the "professionals". :teeth:


That will go over like the proverbial turd in a punch bowl.. :chortle:


But I agree..


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

There is no 2011 annual meeting. The next is 2012.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

There is no 2011 annual meeting. The next is 2012.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

define 'GUEST' in all referring language and instances to specify as:
A NFAA member in good standing that is not a resident of record of the state and/or section that they are registering as a participant in a NFAA event.

define 'VISITOR' in all referring language and instances to specify as:
A Non-NFAA member, regardless of membership or affiliation, that is registering as a participant in a NFAA event.

both VISITORS and GUESTS will not be allowed to compete for state or section level awards in their respective style or gender. Both VISITOR and GUEST will be classified together and not be eligible for state level awards. States can award a visitor specific award at their discretion. 


no matter what the language or legal-ese is used, the two finalized definitions must replace all entries in the C/BL that refer to guest/visitor. what i mean is if the front half of the good book has a definition, and the back half has a definition, both must be the same and read the same so there can be no confusion.

if states want to award the visitor/guests, the award itself cannot refer to any state level achievement. this is where it is best to not award anything because the egomaniacs will still consider it a state 'championship' because it was given to them at a state shoot. unfortunately, you will have to have the same policy for the kids because there are the egomaniac parents that just hafta live vicariously thru their kids.


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## Crazy4Centaurs (Feb 8, 2010)

- - -> Well said!


rock monkey said:


> define 'GUEST' in all referring language and instances to specify as:
> A NFAA member in good standing that is not a resident of record of the state and/or section that they are registering as a participant in a NFAA event.
> 
> define 'VISITOR' in all referring language and instances to specify as:
> ...


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

*Guest/Visitors*

Good Post RM, please get this to your State Director so that person can submit it as an agenda Item and if he/she doesnt want to let me know and I will see that my home state submits it.


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

Eliminate the fan targets. Most of the ranges I shoot (including this years Nationals) have the posts so close together that all it serves to do is cause folks to lose five points for shooting too many from the same stake or at the wrong target. Only the bean counters benefit! Archery competition should be about who shoot the best.


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

My two-bits worth of insight would be to keep the traditional shooters at the black markers and include that division in the state and regional and national meets. I understand the rule change was to encourage traditional shooters to try field / hunter field archery, and I've been able to get about six this year. Not many, but it is a start. But I think it would be neat to extend the division for sectional and state field tournaments. And if the field is marked with green stakes, then open it up for the kids or cadets 12 and under (average yardage is 5 to 15 yards) and I'm still referring to traditional shooters.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

archer_nm said:


> Good Post RM, please get this to your State Director so that person can submit it as an agenda Item and if he/she doesnt want to let me know and I will see that my home state submits it.


maybe we can talk about it in Sept


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## Stihlpro (Jul 19, 2006)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Here's an idea - anyone who claims to be "Pro-Staff" for any archery product would be required to pay Pro dues and shot with the "professionals". :teeth:


GREAT IDEA! I like the way you think..... Seems like EVERYONE is PRO Staff nowadays....LOL


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

rpdjr45 said:


> My two-bits worth of insight would be to keep the traditional shooters at the black markers and include that division in the state and regional and national meets. I understand the rule change was to encourage traditional shooters to try field / hunter field archery, and I've been able to get about six this year. Not many, but it is a start. But I think it would be neat to extend the division for sectional and state field tournaments. And if the field is marked with green stakes, then open it up for the kids or cadets 12 and under (average yardage is 5 to 15 yards) and I'm still referring to traditional shooters.


Did you mean blue stakes instead of black stakes? The Black stakes are cub stakes with a max distance of 30 yards, the blue stakes are youth stakes with a max distance of 50 yards in which the trad guys get to shoot off of in state and local events.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Something I thought of the other day.

I couldn't find anything in the "Good Book" but sometimes things aren't exactly where you think they should be. So...

What does everybody think of having the entry fee waived at Nationals for Sectional Champions?? It might encourage more folks to participate in the Sectionals, both Outdoor and Indoor, and would then also potentially increase participation at the Nationals. I know if I won my class at Sectionals I would go to Nationals and I would probably be able to talk a friend or two in going with me that may not have been interested in going otherwise. 

More people is NEVER a bad thing.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I have another idea. I've been thinking about this one for a couple of days and just want to float it amongst my friends and see what anybody thinks.

It seems as though every year at the meeting there is a State or Section that is trying to make a change to the rules to benefit the shooters in that particular area. So, let them. Lets give some of the power back to the States. If a State Director thinks that changing a rule at the State level will increase participation and membership, then do it. If Texas wants to allow traditional shooters to shoot from the cub stakes, let them. If New Jersey wants to let left handed shooters take ten steps forward on all shots over 50 yds, okay. If those changes increase participation at the club and State level and in turn increase membership numbers, is that really a bad thing??

Now Sectional and National tournaments will still adhere to rules of the NFAA but lets open things up a bit. 

The majority of the participants just want to shoot. So why should our organization not let them shoot. That's what it was founded on. Let's release the choke hold that we seem to be putting on our organization with rules and put some responsibility back in the hands of the States and the participants that make this sport what it is.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Spoon13 said:


> I have another idea. I've been thinking about this one for a couple of days and just want to float it amongst my friends and see what anybody thinks.
> 
> It seems as though every year at the meeting there is a State or Section that is trying to make a change to the rules to benefit the shooters in that particular area. So, let them. Lets give some of the power back to the States. If a State Director thinks that changing a rule at the State level will increase participation and membership, then do it. If Texas wants to allow traditional shooters to shoot from the cub stakes, let them. If New Jersey wants to let left handed shooters take ten steps forward on all shots over 50 yds, okay. If those changes increase participation at the club and State level and in turn increase membership numbers, is that really a bad thing??
> 
> ...



Spoon, You are correct . NjJ put an agenda in to let Trad. shooters shoot from the 50 yd stakes. It took 3 years to get it passed. Do you know why? It was the directors that kept shooting it down. Any of the rules that get passed or defeated comes directly from the states. So it is not the so called "Organization " that is stopping the states.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

brtesite said:


> Spoon, You are correct . NjJ put an agenda in to let Trad. shooters shoot from the 50 yd stakes. It took 3 years to get it passed. Do you know why? It was the directors that kept shooting it down. Any of the rules that get passed or defeated comes directly from the states. So it is not the so called "Organization " that is stopping the states.


That's my point. The Directors collectively are the "Organization" that I was referring to. Just think, how much of an impact would it have had on NJ if you could have been allowed to do that 3 years ago?? Instead you were required to convince enough other Directors to agree. 

All I'm asking is that the Directors collectively agree to allow each State a little "wriggle room" with the rules knowing that at a Sectional or National event, said "wriggle room" WON'T exist. Each State Organization knows what is best for the shooters in it's jurisdiction. Why should NC or NJ have to convince 30 other States what WE need to help grow?? Different areas have different demands and requirements. It's kinda silly to think that a single blanket policy will work for all.

I believe that the States that have the greater Sectional and National participation will stay VERY close to the rules of the NFAA. Some of the other States may vary some without compromising the integrity of the games we play. If it helps that State grow in participation and membership, it's a win-win for everybody.

Just a thought.


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## Reel-Break (Nov 21, 2005)

Hey spoon can the lefty`s get 10 yards instead of steps? See previous post....joking guys.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Here's an idea - anyone who claims to be "Pro-Staff" for any archery product would be required to pay Pro dues and shot with the "professionals". :teeth:


good base for a proposal. i like the IFAA's definition of PRO.

_Does wearing any clothing with a Bow Manufacturer's name and PRO STAFF put an archer in breach? Note: This was given to Him by His local sponsor to promote the bow brand He shoots and that the local agent sells._

*Answer: Wearing Clothing containing adverts does not make an Archer a professional per se.

If on an IFAA sanctioned tournament, an archer is wearing outfit containing the statement that he declares himself a member of the Professional staff of a company or a member of a professional team, this would constitute a self declaration as per Definition of Professional Status Paragraph 3
Excluded of this are advertisements provided by the organizer of any IFAA sanctioned tournament.
*
http://www.ifaa-archery.org/index.p...ssional-list-of-ifaa-archers&catid=46:records

in theory, the NFAA's rules mirror the IFAA's.


FAQ#5 would also greatly boost the ranks of NFAA pro class.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

There is a major inconsistency in the rule book concerning the use of head-sets and electronic listening devices. In the rules for cross-bows, the use of such devices are prohibited while on the shooting line (for safety reasons). This RULE is ABSENT in the other competitive divisions.

I think the rules should be the same...as in ALL LISTENING DEVICES...MP3, iPods, listening to music, ear pieces, etc should be prohibited while on the shooting lines. In the interest of safety, and also concerning the "coaching" potentials as well, among other things. If a person is listening to music or coaching tapes, or whatever, then safety on the line IS compromised.


Here it is quoted from the crossbow section of the shooting rules:

page 33, K., 9.3: "The use of personal stereo or radio equipment for music or self-coaching is not
permitted while on the shooting line in competition (or official practice)."

Then again, K., 9.5: ".....Following items are not allowed: 1) Pistol Crossbows. 2) Electronic Equipment or
Components while on the shooting line except as specifically otherwise listed......."

If this is in there for the crossbow...then let's have it across the board!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

found another 'really good thing to add' idea ........

on the Range Captain's Staking & Target Guide, pg 95 of the 10-11 cb/l's i would highly suggest that the stake colors be added to each stake category. this makes it an exceptionally EASY reference for the whole table when setting up a course of any type.

as it is right now, it's an easter egg hunt trying to find them. when setting alternative courses, like the International Round, there are no 'officially specified' stake colors mentioned in the round's rules.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

it's getting close to that time of the year, i figure a bump to get this back on the radar is a good idea to get the brain trust looking at it again.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

I'm not sure if it made the agenda or not, but I know there is a proposal to direct the Pres to lobby the airlines to get them to drop the over-sized fee charges for archery gear similar to golf equipment. 

May require the swallowing of some pride and working with other organizations for a combined effort, but other than rules issues, is actually something that the Orgs can do for the membership.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

Another question:

Any idea when the official agenda will be available?


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

*Car shoot-off idea*

Here's an idea I worked out on how to get the average Joe a real shot at winning a car or some cash.
Joe B.
View attachment car_shoot.pdf


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

zenarch said:


> Here's an idea I worked out on how to get the average Joe a real shot at winning a car or some cash.
> Joe B.
> View attachment 1218796


Joey you are correct that there needs to have something different for the car shoot off. As it is now , I don't believe that of all the eligible shooters attend all 3 shoots for the express reason of shooting for the car. 
What you are proposing here, is still having very skilled shooters winning , only paying farther down in the shoot off. I think that what you have done, is just spread the wealth among more of the skilled shooters. 
My own spin on this ,is to have the car won by the same method that got you to the shoot off . No score is needed, Just register for all 3 
shoots. I don't believe that you even need to own a bow to be at least eligible for the shoot off. I would have it so that the least skilled 
could possibly win the car. You could design a system that the only thing needed is to be able to reach the target. You could still set it up 
paying it out as you suggested so more people could eat off the pie . 
This really is not the forum for trying to resolve this. Get this in the hands of one of the directors to be presented at the meeting. I would 
have brought this up if I were still involved.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

There is a major inconsistency in the rule book concerning the use of head-sets and electronic listening devices. In the rules for cross-bows, the use of such devices are prohibited while on the shooting line (for safety reasons). This RULE is ABSENT in the other competitive divisions.

I think the rules should be the same...as in ALL LISTENING DEVICES...MP3, iPods, listening to music, ear pieces, etc should be prohibited while on the shooting lines. In the interest of safety, and also concerning the "coaching" potentials as well, among other things. If a person is listening to music or coaching tapes, or whatever, then safety on the line IS compromised.


Here it is quoted from the crossbow section of the shooting rules:

page 33, K., 9.3: "The use of personal stereo or radio equipment for music or self-coaching is not
permitted while on the shooting line in competition (or official practice)."

Then again, K., 9.5: ".....Following items are not allowed: 1) Pistol Crossbows. 2) Electronic Equipment or
Components while on the shooting line except as specifically otherwise listed......."

If this is in there for the crossbow...then let's have it across the board!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

if you're an officer in another national organization, you can't hold an office in nfaa? did i read that right?
pros have to dress up but the joes can elect to be sloppy joes?
pros counting 6's but joes counting only 5's...cause joes ain't smart enough to count to 6? maybe?


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Carlosii, you need to read the whole agenda item to understand what it says. As far as your 1st line goes the Agenda Item that is proposed states that if your are an Executive officer (Pres, VP or Sec/Trea) of a "COMPETING FIELD ARCHERY ORGANIZATION" then you will not be allowed to be an NFAA Director, bottom line is that this a Direct Conflict of Interest


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

carlosii said:


> if you're an officer in another national organization, you can't hold an office in nfaa? did i read that right?
> pros have to dress up but the joes can elect to be sloppy joes?
> pros counting 6's but joes counting only 5's...cause joes ain't smart enough to count to 6? maybe?


Carlosi -
As Bob said...It pertains to officers of Competing organizations..it makes sense from a business point of view. It really should be a non issue.

Dress Code?... Yes the Pros need to dress up. They should, it's not even a question... Non Pros, I think it should be their decision how they dress. I've no intention of trying to force that on them. Honestly I dont think it would ever even make it to a vote.

There are 2 different 6 count proposals in play. The one I put in was for Pro's to count the x as a 6 in an extra column and count it as a point to allow for more exciting finishes etc. If someone has a chance to lay down the X count and make a comeback I think it would be more interesting instead of more or less calling the winner on day 2 and just waiting for the end of the week when it's over.. The Pro's overwhelmingly agreed when they were surveyed. The MOST IMPORTANT key to my proposal was that it still allowed for a perfect score of 560. It keeps the record books intact, keeps the discussion and the feel of the game the same, and allows for even comparison of scores by archers of any skill set just the same way it does now. Think of it kind of the way we talk about the blue face. 
I dont want to necessarily change the game completely with an all new max score and I dont want to put more separation between the Pro and non Pro classes. It's more or less just counting X's. In the Pro Proposal the key thing is retaining the ability to compare raw scores of any archer and it be looked at on the same level. I put it in as a Pro item because if it doesn't work it's a lot easier to undo.

Respectfully;
Chuck Cooley
NFAA Pro Chair


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