# reasonable draw weight to shoot 70m



## todari09 (Oct 30, 2012)

Hi, I'm new to the forum and I would like some advices from the experts here on the forum as to what would be the reasonably low DW to shoot 70M and would like your recommendations.

I have rheumatoid arthritis that is under control with proper medication at the moment so, I would like to keep my DW to a minimum as much as I can. Currently, I'm shooting 900 spine carbon one arrow (26" long 230 grain needle :wink at 25.5 inch DL with 30# on the fingers and I feel fine without any pain. My understanding is that more pricy carbon limbs would shoot faster at the same DW compare to Glass limbs so, I'm willing to spend few more $$ if needed. Thanks in advance. Jon


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

there are some glass limbs that are faster than some carbons limbs, and that because they dont have much carbon and are mainly made of glass.

so dont lump all carbon limbs in with the same boat, you could come out with a slow pair of expensive carbons limbs just because of some marketting blurb.


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

From several coaches over the years, most seem to agree not on a poundage, but rather you should shoot ever pound that you are capable of controlliing comfortably


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

You could save another 20 to 30 grains of arrow weight and keep a good front of center if you switched to Carbon Tech McKinney II arrows. You might just make the distance with your current bow and McKinney 950s or 850s.

Pricy carbon limbs do shoot a lot faster at the same draw weight. You'll probably want to look at Border or Uukha limbs which both store more energy for a given draw weight than other manufacturer's limbs.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Bob Furman said:


> From several coaches over the years, most seem to agree not on a poundage, but rather you should shoot ever pound that you are capable of controlliing comfortably


it is a physical sport! so yeah, fully agree.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

HikerDave said:


> You could save another 20 to 30 grains of arrow weight and keep a good front of center if you switched to Carbon Tech McKinney II arrows. You might just make the distance with your current bow and McKinney 950s or 850s.


also, try and keep things like string stand count to the scale of the bow. for example the number of times you see people with 30lbs bows shooting 18 strand strings. Thats a string thats even overkill on a 50lbs bow. so there is a few fps in there too, and ditch the brass NP, use a floss one.

If your looking for a sly few FPS. choose a set of limbs 2lbs lighter and wind them in.
for example a 30lbs set of limbs giving 30lbs at 28" full out with a holding wieght of 30lbs, will be slower than a set of 28lbs limbs fully in giving 30lbs at 28" so there is room to get things moving in there.
with a short DL, that is really not a problem.


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

HikerDave said:


> You could save another 20 to 30 grains of arrow weight and keep a good front of center if you switched to Carbon Tech McKinney II arrows. You might just make the distance with your current bow and McKinney 950s or 850s.
> 
> Pricy carbon limbs do shoot a lot faster at the same draw weight. You'll probably want to look at Border or Uukha limbs which both store more energy for a given draw weight than other manufacturer's limbs.


There is no question in my mind that the Border HEX 6 are the fastest limbs on the market today, by a significant margin. Combined with MK2 arrows, there should be no problems reaching 70 m with 30 lbs, with room to spare.


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## rick11743 (Sep 20, 2010)

HikerDave said:


> You could save another 20 to 30 grains of arrow weight and keep a good front of center if you switched to Carbon Tech McKinney II arrows. You might just make the distance with your current bow and McKinney 950s or 850s.
> 
> Pricy carbon limbs do shoot a lot faster at the same draw weight. You'll probably want to look at Border or Uukha limbs which both store more energy for a given draw weight than other manufacturer's limbs.


Sure about that? OP has 900 spine C1s. The shafts are 5.3 grains/inch.


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

From the Carbon Tech site. MKIIs are light, here are a few to consider. 

Also not sure if 900 Carbon 1s are similar to Redlines, but thought they are, anyway my 600 Redlines are very close to MKIIs at 650. So I think if 900 Carbon 1s work now for you, you might want to look at the 950 MKIIs. 
But lets see if someone else with experience with the MKIIs in that spine...

850 4.5 gpi 30" 60-80 grains

950 4.2 gpi 30" 60-80 grains

1050 3.9 gpi 30" 60-80 grains


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i reached 70M easily with with my 32# pse pro-elite limbs and MKII 725 arrows...

i also have 32# border hex5 limbs and my sight lines have even improved..


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yup. Definitely take a look at Rick's excellent McKinney II arrows. They are perfectly suited for someone in your situation.

John


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yup. Definitely take a look at Rick's excellent McKinney II arrows, and Border's limbs. They are both perfectly suited for someone in your situation. There is currently NO FASTER combination in all of recurve archery.

John


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Todari09,

Have you _tried_ shooting at 70meters yet with your current setup?


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

jmvargas said:


> i reached 70M easily with with my 32# pse pro-elite limbs and MKII 725 arrows...
> 
> i also have 32# border hex5 limbs and my sight lines have even improved..


....Ooops!!...my 32# limbs are border CXGs not HEX5s...those are 34#..


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

With my students, I've found that 28# on the fingers with a full carbon or ACE shaft gets you easily to 70 meters.
Most are shooting ACE's w 90-100 grn in the point, spin wings/curly vanes and G nocks.

So I'd guess the formula for them is a true competition arrow with 28# on the fingers.

As an aside ... you can test changes in tuning by increasing your tiller on the lower limb. This will change the launch angle of the arrow and may help (if needed).

My best,

Tom


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

if you are in the budget, look at the mckinneys jr arrows they are very light at 6 grns per inch. only $50 for 6. comes fleched and with points!
only down fall is once they hit a wood or something they will be thrashed so make sure those foam target butts have good centers and avoid shooting in hay bales.


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## K31Scout (Sep 17, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> There is currently NO FASTER combination in all of recurve archery.
> 
> John


Speed. Wouldn't it be better to use a chronograph fps formula rather than poundage? I know FOC and arrow weight will figure in with momentum and all but doesn't speed trump poundage? Like, what's the minimum arrow speed/weight to reach 70m. 

I know we don't all own a chrony but we should; it's a great tool for getting a consistent release and less than $100.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Speed and weight, yes. But wouldn't you also need an 'elevation' factor as a constant? (say, bow angled 3.5" above its 20yd setting, or some such)


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Depending of your eye-anchor distance, by turning your sight inside, you could be hitting the target with as low as 26#. That's the lowest I've seen (shooting acc around 1000 spine iirc) I've seen, without putting a block of wood between the teeth.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

Hello Jon,

I shoot 29.25inch MKIIs at 233grains each (that equates to a 8grains/inch all up ready to fly) while shooting 33lbs. I have no problems reaching 70m with a fairly flat trajectory and 60m even more so - comparatively for a bow in this draw weight range. No one else I shoot with has as flat a trajectory as mine. I am shooting W&W RCX-100 limbs, though they are not the smothest and most forgiving limbs I have ever shot (those would be W&W Winex limbs) they are the fastest I have ever shot.

hope that info helps, Todd

btw, pick the brains of Dennis K. Lieu as much as you can. He really knows what he is doing and has a ton of experiece doing it! If I didn't live 2000miles away from him, I'd camp out at his shooting range


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

DK Lieu said:


> There is no question in my mind that the Border HEX 6 are the fastest limbs on the market today, by a significant margin. Combined with MK2 arrows, there should be no problems reaching 70 m with 30 lbs, with room to spare.


 Who sells them in the US?


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

No one, contact Borders direct but after Hogmanay. Maybe a few days after.............

Their number is in the top right corner, they are based in Scotland (just far enough in to boast about being Scots.........).


http://www.borderbows.com/

This is there current 'In stock' list ............... a bit out of date though. 

If there were still something there that suited you it could be gotten straight away rather than waiting for limbs to be made.


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## x-slayer1440 (May 21, 2012)

Im about to go to 34lb limbs from 28 just so i can shoot 70m easier i can hit right now with 28 but its way too slow.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

I shoot 29.5nch MKIIs weighing 222grains with 100grain points and 1.75 FITA vanes out of 31lbs W&W RCX-100 limbs and a 10 strand 8125 string with a knot nock. They fly flat and fast and 70m with absolutely no problem. I have not shot them out to 90m


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

atjurhs said:


> I shoot 29.5nch MKIIs weighing 222grains with 100grain points and 1.75 FITA vanes out of 31lbs W&W RCX-100 limbs and a 10 strand 8125 string with a knot nock. They fly flat and fast and 70m with absolutely no problem. I have not shot them out to 90m


Glad those are working out. What spine are your mckinneys?


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

atjurhs said:


> I shoot 29.5nch MKIIs weighing 222grains with 100grain points and 1.75 FITA vanes out of 31lbs W&W RCX-100 limbs and a 10 strand 8125 string with a knot nock. They fly flat and fast and 70m with absolutely no problem. I have not shot them out to 90m


Seems like you have plenty of speed. A 10-strand 8125 string is pretty thin. You may get better stability and forgiveness by going to a thicker string. It should stiffen your arrows a bit too. My standard build is 18 strands of 8125 for large-groove nocks for the strings I build. I personally use 20 strands.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

Professor Lieu, 

My friend draws 29" and has some hex6bb2 limbs on the way for his spig explorer2 riser. They will be 34lbs at his draw. I have some 600 spine small diameter victory armor piercing shafts. Do you think they might spine correctly if left full length at 30.5" if using heavy (110/120gn) points? I can get them to him for a real good price if they will work, if not we will look for a lighter spine in something else. 

Thanks for your thoughts


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

DK Lieu said:


> Seems like you have plenty of speed. A 10-strand 8125 string is pretty thin. You may get better stability and forgiveness by going to a thicker string. It should stiffen your arrows a bit too. My standard build is 18 strands of 8125 for large-groove nocks for the strings I build. I personally use 20 strands.


What diameter serving? I've been trying to find the perfect combo for large nocks and it seems to take odd numbered strand counts with black 8125.

-Grant


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

ryan b. said:


> Professor Lieu,
> 
> My friend draws 29" and has some hex6bb2 limbs on the way for his spig explorer2 riser. They will be 34lbs at his draw. I have some 600 spine small diameter victory armor piercing shafts. Do you think they might spine correctly if left full length at 30.5" if using heavy (110/120gn) points? I can get them to him for a real good price if they will work, if not we will look for a lighter spine in something else.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts


My best guess is that a 600 shaft will still be too stiff, even at full length. BB2's seem to like slightly weaker shafts. Should go with a 700 spine, or even an 800 if you plan on using lighter points. This will give your friend the best range of tuning options.


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

grantmac said:


> What diameter serving? I've been trying to find the perfect combo for large nocks and it seems to take odd numbered strand counts with black 8125.
> 
> -Grant


For large groove nocks and 18 strands of 8125 (blue and yellow color), I'm using 0.018" Angel Majesty serving. For 20 strands, I use 0.015" serving. The fit on Beiter nocks is perfect, i.e. snaps on, freely slides up and down the on the center serving, comes off with a tap. The fit on Easton nocks is a tad tighter, but still very good. My string build specs can be downloaded from here: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/?page_id=75


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

thats what i was afraid of. turns out he has some .800 vap's so with 80gn points and being able to shorten the arrow a bit to increase stiffness i think we will be able to get it done.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

DK Lieu said:


> Seems like you have plenty of speed. A 10-strand 8125 string is pretty thin. You may get better stability and forgiveness by going to a thicker string. It should stiffen your arrows a bit too. My standard build is 18 strands of 8125 for large-groove nocks for the strings I build. I personally use 20 strands.


I was really after speed, who knows, I maybe have went too far, I'll probably try out a 14strand this Spring/Summer


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