# what is the minimum age to be a archery sponsor



## sightmaster

hi im 9 and i was wondering if i could be a sponsor for Hoyt am i old enough?


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## FV Chuck

I dont think there is a specific minimum age by most companies.

Historically they go by who you are and what you've done...

Get mom/dad and your local archery shop to help you with your goal and keep trying!

See you on the line-
CHuck


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## sightmaster

thanks


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## 4TimeNatnlChamp

Try shooting on a Hoyt shooter form through your local shop. That's basically step 1. When i was 12 I had 2 sponsors already and you can do it too. Just practice practice practice.


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## Beastmaster

A few comments coming from a dad who's 10 year old is a very active shooter.

1) There technically is no minimum age. However, one has to ask as to why you want to be sponsored at such a young age. 

2) How much do you shoot? What tournaments do you frequent? Do you hit all the major NFAA or USA Archery tournaments along with all your state ones? My 10 year old's schedule this year is/will be (and in no particular order):
- Arizona State Indoor
- Arizona State JOAD Indoor
- Hearn Copper Classic (indoor)
- Arizona Iron Archer
- Arizona JOAD Outdoor
- Arizona Cup Test Event
- World Archery Festival/Vegas
- USA Archery JOAD Indoor Nationals
- USA Archery Indoor Nationals
- USA Archery Outdoor Nationals/Easton JOAD Nationals
- SoCal Shootout
- Pan American Championships
- Arizona State Outdoor

That's one decent sized tournament a month. Do you shoot a schedule like that? You get better exposure to potential sponsors if you do.

3) Speaking as both a parent as well as a coach - this question and comment is aimed at your parents. Are you willing to have your child spend time in booths representing a company after they are done shooting? Also, are you willing as parents to encumber your child with equipment that doesn't work well for them, but because they are sponsored, they are required to shoot it/use it? 

This part is extremely important. I purposefully do not encumber my child with stuff like bow and arrow contracts because it may cause issues with his success as a shooter. Actually, he holds NO contracts whatsoever right now. This allows him to shoot the best stuff for him so he can be as successful as he can.

Using arrows as an example, Spencer took Gold in the 2012 Pan Am Championships (shooting as a Cadet aged shooter - meaning as a 10 year old he shot against 15-17 year olds) a couple of weeks ago shooting Easton X10's. He took third in both USA Archery's National Indoor and JOAD Indoor shooting Gold Tip's. There's no way I could get Easton arrows to spine correctly for indoor - even shooting full length 2112 aluminum arrows with 180 to 200 grain points. Conversely, X10's from Easton provide the least wind drift out of any arrow we tested - the lower wind drift allowed him to shoot out to 70 meters, and win in an international tournament environment.

If Spencer was locked into an arrow contract, he wouldn't have that choice of proper arrows for the proper conditions. 

The same issue comes with bows. Spencer could have had a free ride with PSE, and could have done so 2 years ago. Unfortunately, the current PSE lineup for short draw shooters does not give him the same performance as his customized short draw Hoyt Frankenbows. 

As parents - are you willing to mess with successful formulas (that you and your child's coach discover) in order to be sponsored?

And - will your child be willing to talk about products in a concise and clear manner after they are done shooting? Many companies do not modify their contracts between adult shooters and child shooters. If your child shot a 1/2 FITA (72 arrows, excluding practice arrows), would they be willing to go work a booth afterwards? Serious question that only you can answer.

With that being said - here are some recommendations.

a) Get a string contract. If you look here on AT's Manufacturer sub forum, you will see all sorts of string manufacturers that are looking for kids to sponsor. Strings are consumable items, and a simple string contract is easy to represent - shoot the bow with that company's string on it.

b) The string contract will lead in to other contracts. Bohning and TRUBall both automatically sign up shooters that are staff shooters of other companies. Everyone needs vanes (Bohning) as well as sights and releases (TRUBall). Bohning and TRUBall have very non-binding contracts that are easy for kids to represent. Just use the product and you get a decent discount.

c) Represent stuff that you're willing to shoot. If you don't like the product, why would you represent it?

Feel free to either respond back to this thread or PM me if you have any questions. I've helped kids navigate the prats and pitfalls of sponsorship. Some of the answers may not be what you're looking for, but you and your parents need to reflect as to why you want to be sponsored...then set a game plan from there.

-Steve


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## FV Chuck

Beastmaster said:


> A few comments coming from a dad who's 10 year old is a very active shooter.
> 
> 1) There technically is no minimum age. However, one has to ask as to why you want to be sponsored at such a young age.
> 
> 2) How much do you shoot? What tournaments do you frequent? Do you hit all the major NFAA or USA Archery tournaments along with all your state ones? My 10 year old's schedule this year is/will be (and in no particular order):
> - Arizona State Indoor
> - Arizona State JOAD Indoor
> - Hearn Copper Classic (indoor)
> - Arizona Iron Archer
> - Arizona JOAD Outdoor
> - Arizona Cup Test Event
> - World Archery Festival/Vegas
> - USA Archery JOAD Indoor Nationals
> - USA Archery Indoor Nationals
> - USA Archery Outdoor Nationals/Easton JOAD Nationals
> - SoCal Shootout
> - Pan American Championships
> - Arizona State Outdoor
> 
> That's one decent sized tournament a month. Do you shoot a schedule like that? You get better exposure to potential sponsors if you do.
> 
> 3) Speaking as both a parent as well as a coach - this question and comment is aimed at your parents. Are you willing to have your child spend time in booths representing a company after they are done shooting? Also, are you willing as parents to encumber your child with equipment that doesn't work well for them, but because they are sponsored, they are required to shoot it/use it?
> 
> This part is extremely important. I purposefully do not encumber my child with stuff like bow and arrow contracts because it may cause issues with his success as a shooter. Actually, he holds NO contracts whatsoever right now. This allows him to shoot the best stuff for him so he can be as successful as he can.
> 
> Using arrows as an example, Spencer took Gold in the 2012 Pan Am Championships (shooting as a Cadet aged shooter - meaning as a 10 year old he shot against 15-17 year olds) a couple of weeks ago shooting Easton X10's. He took third in both USA Archery's National Indoor and JOAD Indoor shooting Gold Tip's. There's no way I could get Easton arrows to spine correctly for indoor - even shooting full length 2112 aluminum arrows with 180 to 200 grain points. Conversely, X10's from Easton provide the least wind drift out of any arrow we tested - the lower wind drift allowed him to shoot out to 70 meters, and win in an international tournament environment.
> 
> If Spencer was locked into an arrow contract, he wouldn't have that choice of proper arrows for the proper conditions.
> 
> The same issue comes with bows. Spencer could have had a free ride with PSE, and could have done so 2 years ago. Unfortunately, the current PSE lineup for short draw shooters does not give him the same performance as his customized short draw Hoyt Frankenbows.
> 
> As parents - are you willing to mess with successful formulas (that you and your child's coach discover) in order to be sponsored?
> 
> And - will your child be willing to talk about products in a concise and clear manner after they are done shooting? Many companies do not modify their contracts between adult shooters and child shooters. If your child shot a 1/2 FITA (72 arrows, excluding practice arrows), would they be willing to go work a booth afterwards? Serious question that only you can answer.
> 
> With that being said - here are some recommendations.
> 
> a) Get a string contract. If you look here on AT's Manufacturer sub forum, you will see all sorts of string manufacturers that are looking for kids to sponsor. Strings are consumable items, and a simple string contract is easy to represent - shoot the bow with that company's string on it.
> 
> b) The string contract will lead in to other contracts. Bohning and TRUBall both automatically sign up shooters that are staff shooters of other companies. Everyone needs vanes (Bohning) as well as sights and releases (TRUBall). Bohning and TRUBall have very non-binding contracts that are easy for kids to represent. Just use the product and you get a decent discount.
> 
> c) Represent stuff that you're willing to shoot. If you don't like the product, why would you represent it?
> 
> Feel free to either respond back to this thread or PM me if you have any questions. I've helped kids navigate the prats and pitfalls of sponsorship. Some of the answers may not be what you're looking for, but you and your parents need to reflect as to why you want to be sponsored...then set a game plan from there.
> 
> -Steve



Brilliant...and well said.
I follow Steve and Spencers activities and from the 'shoot what works' dept I know Steve spent houuuuuurrrrs and hours and then some literally building one off riser/limb/cam combo's to make something that would fit him..

I would easily paste him in expert spot #1 for having a valid opinion and insight at this age.

Chuck


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## cableguy

Thanks Steve....This is Sightmaster's dad. You went into great detail as to what i've been telling my son.I'ts alot more work and commitment than he thinks.He loves shooting and getting to be very good at it.He has his heart set on being a pro shooter, and wants to jump in with both feet.We will start looking into what you have sugested and see if this is something that "both" of us can handle


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## Beastmaster

Cableguy - I see you have an EGA as a logo. Ooorah and thank you for your service!

I totally appreciate your son's drive. In the past 4 years that my own son has been shooting, it has been extremely hard to temper the enthusiasm with keeping things fun and keeping the "business" side going properly. I can understand the desire and determination. And I apologize for this long post - a lot of this information is a combination of personal experience and talking with other parents.

Eventually, you will need sponsors. Unless you have very deep pockets, archery can be expensive. Unfortunately, a lot of "sponsorships" are what I nickname "pay to play". You will get a decent discount, but you still have to "buy" it.

With that being said, here's some additional suggestions, all of which are complimentary to your son's goal and will help things out in the long run. If I'm hitting on something you've already done, I apologize for the repeat.

1) Build up a shooter resume. I know it's odd when a 9 year old kid has one, but ironically, it's important for a multitude of reasons. Mainly - it helps keep track of your son's accomplishments. As he participates in a tournament - if he's in the top 10, log it down in the resume. 

What you're trying to do is be like a NASCAR driver. Top 10's impress the potential sponsors. Start and parks (the 43rd driver in the results) are there to just leach money out of the prize pool and they don't have many sponsors at all.

On top of that, it establishes a track record. It shows consistency. And sponsors like that.

Also - invest in a good scanner. Scan and make copies of your son's scorecards. Create a free GMail account that is archery specific, and email the scorecards to that account. This way, you have a searchable and near permanent method of storing your son's scores. You'll see why later on in this post.

2) I don't know how many tournaments your son shoots, but he really needs to shoot a ton. This, unfortunately, hits the "Bank of Mom and Dad" really hard. Potential and current sponsors love seeing their shooters get out and get exposed.

3) Equipment needs will end up rearing it's ugly head. I noticed that in your son's prior posts, he's shooting a Razor's Edge and a Kobalt. Eventually, his shooting prowess will hit a wall to where the bows he owns will not give him the performance he needs. 

This part is the hardest to explain....but there is a reason why the Hoyt UltraTec/UltraElite/Contender/Contender Elite/Vantage Elite, Mathews Conquest/Apex, and PSE Supra/Dominator are such prominent target bows - their riser designs work and are tournament proven. And, at some point in time (possibly now, definitely soon), your son will be chasing one or two points for an advantage so he can stay in the top 10 consistently. I've seen tournaments where the difference between first and fourth place is 4 points - so points chasing by equipment tweaking is something every pro archer looks for. Unfortunately, (with the exception of Mathews) they don't deal well with youth shooters/women shooters and their shorter draw lengths. 

With that being said, going to a good target bow riser design has been proven to give you better scores. Spencer's scores improved from a Hoyt Ruckus to a UltraTec. John Klus Jr. improved when he went to a Hoyt Contender Elite. TJ Strychalski also improved to when he went to a Contender Elite. All three kids will clean an NFAA 5 spot with at worst a 30x count - in tournament conditions. Yes, some of that is the archer, but you have to give the archer the tools to succeed. 

On the flip side - There's a reason why Hoyt lost Paige Pearce (to PSE) and Christie Colin (to Mathews) these past 12 months. They were not willing to equip their shorter draw archers with good equipment. So, as much as your son is a Hoyt fan, don't let a brand name get in the way of success - have your son shoot what works. If it means that he goes from his Kobalt to a Mathews Conquest Prestige, so be it. Myself, John's, and TJ's dad have all been bold enough to tweak the bows to fit our kids well at the expense of angering Hoyt Engineering. You may have to do the same thing.

24 inch draw length is the magic number. Once he hits that, all sorts of doors open up.

As soon as your son is physically able to handle the mass weight of a good, quality target bow, as well as be there from a draw length standpoint, I highly recommend getting two of them. Yes, this is another hard hit on the pocketbook, but I've seen kids and adults both get hit hard when they didn't have a backup bow. Two weeks ago, Spencer had to shoot his round robin head to heads in El Salvador with his backup. John Klus Jr. now has a backup bow when his primary bow blew it's string on Day one of competition at the 2011 JOAD Nationals. TJ Strychalski has a backup bow as well. Your son's peers have learned from the hard way that it's needed. You either have a backup or you go home with a DNF. 

More equipment stuff - get a good stabilizer setup. There's only two that I trust - B-Stinger and Doinker. Both perform equally. Both will bend over backwards to help youth shooters out. It's worth the money.

Sights - Axcel/TRUBall gives their staff shooters a very sizeable discount. Let's just say that you could buy a good scope head with the discount. Or you can buy a used scope head and a new lens with the discount. And Axcel's have a proven track record in crappy weather. If a good chunk of the 2012 USA Archery Olympic Recurve team headed to London shoots Axcel's, there's a reason why. 

4) Facebook. Your son's going to make friends. Get him on Facebook. Monitor what he does, but get him on there. 

Finally - I'm going to hit on coaching. If you haven't gotten a good coach, do so. John Klus Jr. has pro shooter Duane Price and Level 4 USA Archery Coach (and former 3D shooter) Linda Beck as his coaches. Spencer has Level 4 USA Archery Coach (and two time ParaOlympian) Eric Bennett with myself (a USA Archery Level 3 coach) as a support/backup coach. TJ Strychalski has a Level 3 or Level 4 (who's name I forget) coach as well. 

I also directly mention Spencer, John, and TJ for a specific reason and examples. These kids are part of your son's peer group. Spencer's 10. John and TJ are 11. They are also friends and rivals. Each of them take slightly different tracks to archery, but their paths cross all the time. Spencer shoots primarily FITA outdoor and indoor, but occasionally will shoot NFAA stuff. John shoots NFAA primarily, but will also shoot FITA. TJ shoots a mix of everything - 3D, FITA, NFAA. And all three kids are generally on the podium. Spencer's the 2012 Pan American Champion. John is the 2011 USA Archery Outdoor National Champion, 2011 NFAA Champion, and 2012 NFAA Vegas indoor champion. TJ is the 2012 USA Archery JOAD Indoor Champion. Have your son reach out to them. All three are on Facebook. They will be glad to talk with your son, pass along information, and give some inspiration. 

Exposing your son to his peers nationally not only creates some long lasting friendships, it also exposes your son to possible goals that he would not have considered before.

For example - I see your son does field archery. He may want to consider going for the next USA Archery World Field Trials. If 12 year old Hardy Trafford can make it shooting barebow as a Junior (17-20 year old class), why not your son shooting compound? Hardy is going to France later this year as part of the world team. Imagine your son wearing a Team USA shirt, shooting in a foreign country representing the United States! You son could also be paired up with guys like Dave Cousins, Henry Bass, and others that are also on the world team. Imagine what he could learn from guys like that! 

Spencer never thought of doing International FITA outdoor until his coach (along with Coach Dee Falks, parent Barb Larrick, and Coach Gary Yamaguchi providing recommendations) said to go ahead and try shooting International tournaments. That was a wild success!

Go to Vegas! The Cub Freestyle Compound Male division is one of the largest groups, and you see kids the same age as your son's running around and shooting with the world's best. I have pictures of Spencer shooting next to guys like Tim Gillingham, Greg Poole, and others. Plus, since your son shoots 3D, a lot of 3D shooters also hit Vegas - Levi Morgan, Nathan Brooks, and others. He gets a chance to see his idols, and they are all approachable to kids. You can't get better inspiration than meeting and talking with them face to face. And - all of these shooters are on Facebook. 

As part of the coaching thing - don't be afraid to have your son shoot "up" a class/level or two. John, TJ, and Spencer routinely shoot against older kids and adults all the time. Indoor and outdoor, all three beat adults routinely. 

And - remember the scan the scorecard thing? It's useful for a wide variety of things. I highly recommend your son get involved in a USA Archery Junior Olympic club in your area. You can use his scores to earn achievement pins. Achievement pins is a useful way of measuring how well your son is doing against his peers. Indoor is easier to track (mainly because it's hard for most 9-12 year olds to shoot 70 meters for their final outdoor pins) and it's easier to find a coach in the USA Archery system. Most coaches know and understand other forms of archery (3D, field, etc), so they are able to adapt to what preferences your son want to shoot. And you can track growth.

So, I've thrown a bunchaton of stuff to you. My intent wasn't to overload, but to hopefully expand on what kids and parents that are in the same age group as your son are going through right now. 

It's a fine line between fun and burnout. Tread carefully....and make sure that if there isn't some sort of fun component to it, I wouldn't personally pursue it....not with shooters as young as ours are.

Again, feel free to talk with me either on this thread, on Facebook (look for Steve Yee and it's obvious as to which one is archery related), or by email at syarchery (at) gmail. I'll be more than happy to pass along any information I have.

-Steve


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## FV Chuck

Hands down, bar none - easily one of the best posts I've ever read on AT-

Thanks Steve!!


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## N7709K

Steve pretty much summed it up!


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## cableguy

That was very helpfull...Thanks Steve. When i get home i'll go over this with my son and see where he wants to go from there.He has the drive to do better.When we go to 3D or field rounds he shoots with the adults.He said the cub stakes are boring.Last year field/hunter rounds he shot adult stakes and averaged in the 490 area.He's been shooting hard and is shooting for the 500's this year.Thanks again for all your post and your time.They have been very helpfull


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## Lien2

Very helpful, informative, and well written posts Steve!


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## JoAnn

Anyone know the rules on Being sponsored by a company and being able to shoot collegiate? If you sign a contract with a brand are you still able to shoot at the collegiate level? Or are you deemed a pro and can no longer shoot as an amateur?


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## Beastmaster

JoAnn - I answered your direct email, but since this is posted here, I will answer this as well.

As of 2013, there is no direct impact on being a professional, sponsored archer and being able to shoot on a collegiate level.

The USCA does not have any rules against it.

USA Archery/World Archery does not have any rules if a Cadet/Junior/Senior archer is sponsored. People like Jennifer Nichols (Hardy) and Braden Gellenthien would have never been able to shoot in college if their sponsorships got in the way.

NFAA has no issues with their archers being sponsored.

Most NCAA sports really don't care if you're shooting archery professionally. You could technically be a sponsored shooter, and walk on to play football.

The only possible issue is if your child plays an in-state sport (via junior high or high school) where an amateur status may be jeopardized.

Hope this helps!
-Steve


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## Humdinger

FV Chuck said:


> Hands down, bar none - easily one of the best posts I've ever read on AT-
> 
> Thanks Steve!!



I agree! That was a very good read and i couldn't have said it any better. Ive have been sponsored in other sports such as BMX when i was about 11-14 years of age. One thing that happened to me and killed my drive to compete was all the obligations that came along with being on a Factory team. It became a job at the races and was no longer hanging with my buddies having fun. I had to be at this booth for 20 min, then hit my practice time slot, then i would have my trainer at the finish line to grab my bike, then i was off to another booth for 20 min, and on and on. By the time the weekend was over i was so wiped out and didnt see many of the friends i had whom also were on the same schedule as me. It lost its fun.. I was a programed marketing machine.. I knew more about the products on my bike then the guys who made them! 

I like you wanted to be pro and had the skill and backing to do it. It was when i hit 14 years old that it hit me one day... I had a Nutritionist, Physical trainer, Gate Coach, Manager, and sponsors. All of which demand a certain amount of time everyday. Although i was surrounded by great people and loved each one, I just wanted to ride my bike with my buddies. One example is: My buddies called me to go to a Jump spot that we all built, I really wanted to go! However i had contracts stating i was not allowed to do such activities because of the possibility of me getting injured. I was so excited about getting a new contract that i didnt realize i was also giving up so much. My life was not mine anymore.. I felt owned. 

Now with that said... I loved my time in BMX and have some fond memories, infact some of the best times in my life. Just talk as a family and make sure its what you really want or infact really need or even handle at your age. My advise to you would be enjoy every moment shooting and let the sponsors trickle in over time, dont rush it.

Everything Beastmaster has posted is spot on. Good luck with your shooting, and im sure ill see you on the Cover of Archery Magazine one day!!


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## 45 x

Awesome thread, my little guy is 9, loves indoor tourneys , right now just letting him have fun with it....... Don't want to take the fun out of it by pushing too hard.


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## zachbb42

Great info here


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## iwannahoyt93

Braden was sponsored by hoyt when he shot collegiate. I agree with the post up above but I just wanted to say something as a kid 17 year old kid. Don't let equipment keep you from reaching goals. yes with better equipment or equipment designed for the purpose of the tournament you are shooting is nice but I shoot a hoyt vector turbo with a 29 inch draw because I am a big 3d shooter and I had guys at my local club I couldn't compete with it and I could shoot good scores. Well I here to tell you it can be done it is just harder and takes more practice. I shot consistently in the 296 rang out of a 300 with usually around 20 x's. yes it isn't what it takes to win vegas but if you can shoot good with bad or wrong styles of equipment than imagine what you can do with good equipment. 3 years ago a guy made the Lancaster classic eliminations in mens unlimited shooting a Mathew monster xlr8 but lost to reo wilde if you ever need some inspiration.


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## bruno86

Tag. Great post! 

I want to carry on what 45X touched on. Pushing a youngster to hard will cause the sport to become a job more than anything and take the fun right out of it. He will start to push on his own once he sees what his goals are. I started shooting competition when I was 11 and at the age of 13, I was a Gold Olympian in my local JOAD program which is a 300/300 score. The sponsors and wins started to roll in like water and a few years later I developed a BADDD case of target panic at the absolute worst time. I had a thick head on my shoulders and my parents kept pushing me but didn't understand what I was going through at the time. I didn't want to listen to my coach because I though I was better than him. I eventually dropped the competition side of things and took a long break. With archery being on the back burner, baseball and girls took over. Looking back now and watching some of the guys I shot with make a living out of archery makes me realize what I had lost. I never lost the love of the sport and continued to shoot with friends and family over the years. I am now re-entering the competition scene with the help of some friends. Point is, don't let what happened to me happen to him. Let him have fun with the sport and everything will fall right into place. He will have trouble at some point down the line, everyone does, and he will need your help through it. Good luck in everything you guys go! AT is a great place to lean from.


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