# So how do you shoot a thumb release?



## silverdollar77

ok, so teh question is...just that...how do you use your thumb release?

Being a newb to a release aid, I bought a Carter Target 4...I wanted something solid so I could get used to learning just one thing...no trying out a bunch of different stuff to see what "feels" right. I need to get used to one thing before I see how different things act.

So what I am <trying> to do is hold the release deep in my fingers using the 2nd joint of my thumb on the trigger.

I do not want to use it just as a trigger...I want to use some back tension so I focus on pulling my shoulder blades together while sort of squeezing my hand a little...trying NOT to just pull the thumb, but the whole hand.

Is this the proper way I should be learning this?

There are a couple times when everything felt right..it is hard to explain but I sort of thought I knew it...there are other times when I knew I was punching it or not being patient enough to let things happen...

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Brown Hornet

That's about it honestly.....


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## NY911

It IS tough to get it "right"...but once you do..it is hard to go back...


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## TNMAN

*carter thumb*

I'm in the same boat. Been spending a LOT of time shooting a blank bale to try to develop a consistant (timely) suprise release without a lot of thought. A strong shot with relaxed release hand, consistent grip of release and anchor seem to be critical. Watched Ragsdale shoot near perfect with an AR hotshot, so I know the release is not the problem.


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## Slim37KS

Ive been shooting a ST360 Truball the way I finally found to use it the best for me is I ended up removing the extentsion bar, flipping the thumb lever to the opposite side so I could get my thumb tip on top of the handle with the lever buried deep in the crook of my thumb joint. I draw then start to drop my elbow as I pull through which causes my hand to rotate over the thumb squeezing the trigger......is it the best way?, most likely not its easy to punch it which Ive done quite frequently.........Currently Im trying a Ultra 3 Hinge and all I can say is WOW big difference draw focus focus focus while Im pulling through and its off before I even realize it.


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## njshadowwalker

Once you hit full draw, get on the trigger, give it a little bit of tension/preload. Settle in and keep pulling.


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## silverdollar77

njshadowwalker said:


> Once you hit full draw, get on the trigger, give it a little bit of tension/preload. Settle in and keep pulling.


In my short experience though it seems that "just pulling" won;t do much with a thumb release...it seems that there needs to be some contraction of the hand as well or am I missing something?


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## TNMAN

*execution*

Have you seen the Performance Archery video's? Episode 10 Compound Execution may provide a good explanation. http://www.performance-archery.tv/?q=node/53

Some of it is a little hard for me to understand as he is speaking English rather than *******.


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## JawsDad

Grip it and rip it.... well, that's how I always shot a thumb trigger.. 


I finally seem to be getting past it though.. After years of shooting a Carter Evolution and lately a Whalen Hooker, I think I've put my demons behind me when it comes to triggers. I've been shooting a Carter Just B-Cuz and gripping it like I would if I were shooting a 2 finger (very little to zero pressure on my ring finger). Then as I settle on the target I wrap my thumb around the trigger. I should add that I changed the standard thumb post and put a very thin post on it so that it would settle right into the fold on the middle joint on my thumb and I'm using the strongest spring in the release. Once I start to really aim, I then start putting pressure on the release with my ring finger and just start pulling through the shot like I would with my Evolution. Ultimately the shot just breaks and my thumb seems to do nothing but hang there along for the ride.

That's the method that seems to be working for me at least.. Might not work for anyone else. :wink:


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## Oregonbowguy

The wife evidently took the camera so i can't take a pic but this is how i was taught, bear in mind that i literally just started shooting BT and just started with a thumb release, but it seems to be working well as i am getting the desired result which is a suprise release. I have my release buried completely in my hand. i have the thumb post adjusted so that i wrap my thing around to my index finger...basically it looks like i am making a fist while holding the release. The thumb touches the index finger at the index fingers first joint. It is running across the thumb post diagonally basically.

Once at full draw and i wrap my thumb across to my index finger its pretty simple. I basically relax my trigger hand and squeeze the majic back muscle....as i am pulling my back, pulling the arm back the thumb post is forced into the thumb by the tightening tension from the string pulling the release forward. Once the pressure gets high enough then booom.....

, i have a chocolate lite and having the adjustable thumb post and spring tension allowed me to get the thumb post into a position where i could wrap my thumb around the post comfortably and the way it sits again the thumb its kind of a dead area, i really can't feel the pressure of the thumb post against the thumb.

Maybe a simpler way of looking at it is that the release is wanting to go forward because the sting is pulling it forward, the hand is wanting to go backword because your pulling it backword. somewhere in there the trigger releases.....


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## subconsciously

silverdollar77 said:


> ...I want to use some back tension so I focus on pulling my shoulder blades together while sort of squeezing my hand a little...trying NOT to just pull the thumb, but the whole hand.
> 
> Is this the proper way I should be learning this?


Think about it. How can you pull your shoulder blades together without pulling your bow arm left?

Only the right rhomboid should be used (for a right hander)when using back tension.


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## silverdollar77

Oregonbowguy said:


> as i am getting the desired result which is a suprise release. I have my release buried completely in my hand. i have the thumb post adjusted so that i wrap my thing around to my index finger...basically it looks like i am making a fist while holding the release. The thumb touches the index finger at the index fingers first joint. It is running across the thumb post diagonally basically.
> 
> Once at full draw and i wrap my thumb across to my index finger its pretty simple. I basically relax my trigger hand and squeeze the majic back muscle....as i am pulling my back, pulling the arm back the thumb post is forced into the thumb by the tightening tension from the string pulling the release forward. Once the pressure gets high enough then booom.....


well right now all my releases surprise me...hahaha..I am keeping the release deep in my hand but I like the ideas that you present concerning the thumb. I don;t want to overthink this too much as I just want to get some consistency in my release and then go from there. I also like how you explain the thumb post forced into the thumb due to tension. Thanks


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## silverdollar77

subconsciously said:


> Think about it. How can you pull your shoulder blades together without pulling your bow arm left?
> 
> Only the right rhomboid should be used (for a right hander)when using back tension.


yeah that makes sense but then why do some of the "methods" suggest to push with your right arm...well maybe not "push" but apply some force with right arm while pulling bacl with left in effect squeezing your shoulder blades together. 

Only using the right rhombiod totally makes sense though...


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## TANC

I've been shooting one for about 3 or 4 years now. The best way to shoot one is to get the pin on the target and punch that trigger hard and fast before the pin gets off the target. Then when you find that doesn't work, take a couple of weeks off and quit. That's where I'm at with mine. 

Seriously, I just switched to backtension cause about twice a round, I would punch it and come out of the shot, and that gets old. But I think learning backtension is gonna drive me to drinking. It ain't starting out very good. ukey:


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## silverdollar77

TANC said:


> But I think learning backtension is gonna drive me to drinking. It ain't starting out very good. ukey:


well I just finished my second pint of Bluebird Bitter so half the battle is over!!!!
:darkbeer:


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## bclowman

I'm trying the thumb trigger myself. I still shoot a hinge though. The extremely good shooters that i have seen shoot one always seem to let the release roll around into there thumb using pure back tension. If you watch them very closely you will see the peg at the base of the thumb "walk" up the thumb until it fires while the elbow moves back. It looked easy until i tried it.


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## njshadowwalker

Its so easy its unreal. 

Honestly go to grivtech.com or lancaster's site and get Griv's video on form and etc etc...

Then get Straight Talk with Michael Braden. Watch them both and put some time in. Youll find one of the two ways work for you. And its safe to say they are both VERY ACCOMPLISHED ARCHERS.

I still grab the BT on occasion when my shots get weak. When i pick the button up again, the shots are stronger then ever.


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## The Swami

I shoot a thumb trigger exactly like I shoot a hinge.


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## shawn_in_MA

I've always found the push pull method to work best for me with both a thumb trigger and a hinge.


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## silverdollar77

The Swami said:


> I shoot a thumb trigger exactly like I shoot a hinge.


How do you shoot a hinge?


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## The Swami

silverdollar77 said:


> How do you shoot a hinge?


With back tension.

Below is stuff I have posted before...

I draw the bow back, anchor and make a smooth transition from holding it back with my arm and hand to my back. I do this by relaxing my arm and hand at the same time, increase the tension in my back in the rhomboid on the right side. At some point at the end of the transition, the release fires.

There is no pushing with the bow arm or shoulder. That side needs to be fairly relaxed and static. It is your brace to hold your form from collapsing and creating the dynamic tension in your shot. It allows you to relax and let the bow float, giving you the smallest movement in your sight picture you can get. It gives you something to fire the bow against with your back.

I think pushing is the wrong word to describe the front end of your form, the bow arm. I surely don't push outward with my bow arm, but I do maintain the pressure up front. If you are used to collapsing the bow arm a little and you yield to the pressure from the back end pulling, it may feel like you are pushing when you stop collapsing. Your bow arm and shoulder should be relaxed and your sensation of pressure is in your palm where the grip is touching. If you are actively pushing your bow out, then you are going to have issues. You could over extend the elbow and get your bow arm shoulder out of place and use muscles in the bow arm. The bow arm is there to provide resistance and not to give in to the force of the bow or the pressure your back end provides when shooting the shot. It needs to be relaxed, yet firm and non-yielding. You DO NOT aim with the bow arm and hand!! That is my opinion anyways.

You have to be able to hold the bow back with your back muscles before you can relax your hand and arm. This means you have to be able to isolate this muscle in your back and know how to use it. You all aren't holding the bow back with your back if you still have all the weight on the index finger etc. 

The change from holding with the arm and hand to the back is a gradual one and best described by an illustration. I will add my illustration of how I see all this taking place. For those who can isolate the proper back muscle but have trouble letting the arm and hand relax so the back can gradually take on the weight, move your thumb up into your palm area behind your fingers like you are going to make an improper fist with the thumb inside. Just don't make a fist literally. 

When your hand and arm feel relaxed, you will be able to tell. A drill to feel what this is like is the bucket drill. Just get your gallon mop bucket and fill it full of water. Grab the handle in the same position as you would your release and hold it off the ground. Now relax your hand and arm. The bucket stays in your hand, but your hand is pretty relaxed as well as your arm. The key is being able to learn how to isolate the back muscle and trust it to fire the shot without your control by the hand. The hand is just hanging on at this point. 

If your form isn't right and the equipment isn't fitting you, it will be hard to learn how to isolate this muscle. The draw length is very important. On a single cam bow, I can tell a huge difference in the draw length with one twist of the cable. That one twist in the cable lengthening my draw makes causes a much larger float pattern in my sight picture and makes it harder to execute the shot.

If you can flex your butt muscles independently, then you have the talent to isolate your rhomboid located in your back. It is also the muscle you use to properly draw your bow back. If you draw the bow back properly, then you should have no problems learning quickly how to isolate and use the same muscle to fire the shot. 

Here is my diagram illustrating the transistion of the holding weight of the bow and how my shot works.


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## bclowman

*Swami*

If you don't mind explain how you aim. you mentioned not using your bow arm and hand. Could you also explain your hand positoning on the grip. Hate to bug you but your post was very insightful, like to learn a little more.


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## Bobmuley

How do I shoot a "release" (thumb, index trigger, hinge...doesn't matter).

Well it took me a month of short range work with each at close yardage using a conscious effort to "feel" the release. 100 arrows a night. No exceptions. I didn't worry about anything other than how the shot felt.

After that, I never thought about it again. I just concentrate on aiming and let it happen and note how the shot feels upon conclusion. I am not one of those folks that has a bullet list of things to execute in their shot process (I get too caught up in the process and forget to aim) so I kinda shoot by the seat of my pants. Just pull back to anchor, aim...and let the rest happen.


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## USNarcher

Draw the bow back, get comfortable, straight forearm, hold on the target, feel the back pressure and SLAM the thumb barrel. Arrow in the middle and repeat.  That's my procedure. :shade:


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## silverdollar77

thanks everybody for contributing to my question with all your thoughtful responses...it is really helping my thought process...now I just need to get out there and see how it feels...I got out a little last night and was giving some ideas a try...I changed my grip a little too so things are starting to come together, but I feel like every time I make a little change I am starting over with some grouping, but I feel like I am making changes for the better so am confident things will come together with time...I just need more of it! :smile:


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## The Swami

bclowman said:


> If you don't mind explain how you aim. you mentioned not using your bow arm and hand. Could you also explain your hand positoning on the grip. Hate to bug you but your post was very insightful, like to learn a little more.


Yeah, I will explain it after I get off work. It might take some time to type it out if I haven't before.


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## The Swami

silverdollar77 said:


> thanks everybody for contributing to my question with all your thoughtful responses...it is really helping my thought process...now I just need to get out there and see how it feels...I got out a little last night and was giving some ideas a try...I changed my grip a little too so things are starting to come together, but I feel like every time I make a little change I am starting over with some grouping, but I feel like I am making changes for the better so am confident things will come together with time...I just need more of it! :smile:



Before you get to where you are shooting a shot with backtension, you might find you have to change a few things with equipment, form etc.

The key is to have the bow fit you, not you try to fit to the bow.

If you don't have a solid foundation in which to build your shot, it will be hard to get better.

You can't just change how you shoot the shot if you have form that isn't set up correctly for it or for shot consistency. If you have form that isn't good, then even if you manage to shoot your shot with backtension, you will still likely be inconsistent.

Many who really want to get better and learn to shoot a release with back tension find out they have to fix their form, adjust their bow setup and tune the bow better.

It is all related. You can't perform at the level you are capable of unless you have all the pieces in place.


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## USNarcher

silverdollar77 said:


> thanks everybody for contributing to my question with all your thoughtful responses...it is really helping my thought process...now I just need to get out there and see how it feels...I got out a little last night and was giving some ideas a try...I changed my grip a little too so things are starting to come together, but I feel like every time I make a little change I am starting over with some grouping, but I feel like I am making changes for the better so am confident things will come together with time...I just need more of it! :smile:


There really are sooooo many things that you can do even with just one release. How you hold the release can change the impact point and feel obviously. The placement of the thumb barrel, the size of the thumb barrel. On Carters I like the 2 small posts instead of the barel. Small minute adjustments to your draw length/loop can make everything feel different. You need to find out what works best for YOU. Play around with different combinations.

At one point I had 13 different releases. I would do good with one then I would lose "that" feeling then pick up another one. When one is new it can feel awsome but can also lose that feeling quick and you are back to the old one.


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## The Swami

bclowman said:


> If you don't mind explain how you aim. you mentioned not using your bow arm and hand. Could you also explain your hand positoning on the grip. Hate to bug you but your post was very insightful, like to learn a little more.



Bclowman,

Read my posts on this thread.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=657253&highlight=aiming

The only aiming I do is with my back foot. I place it so the instep of my foot is perpendicular with the center of the target or target face. The shot begins from the ground up, just like in golf. My form shoots the shot and the bow stops where my eyes stop. I don't try to hold the bow on the center of the target. I just look at the center and relax. My form keeps it floating there in the center.

My hand placement on the bow means I am not gripping the bow. Larry Wise says it best concerning the grip. I agree with him.

http://www.bowtube.com/media/6/Get_A_Grip/

When you place your hand on the bow correctly, you wrist is parallel to the ground. It can't be torqued left or right easy. You will have bone on bone alignment in your bow arm with the proper hand placement. It will be very steady and calm and easy to relax. 

If you grip the bow, your wrist is close to perpendicular to the ground. It is not a stable position. The bow can be torqued left to right easily and your sight picture is very unstable. You will not have good bone on bone alignment in your bowarm.

Aimers grip the bow. The handle on the bow is not for gripping. If you are gripping the bow, you are not relaxing your bow arm. If you are gripping, you are aiming.

Use the proper hand placement and let the bow and your form shoot the shot. The proper hand placement is one of the most important factors in good form. A good hand placement does not influence the bow at full draw. It is neutral. A gripping hand or bad hand placement does. To influence the bow is to aim. Aiming means you are not letting your form shoot the shot. It means excessive movement in your sight picture and inconsistency. It means you are not relaxing and trusting your form.

Once your form is good and solid, then you get the bow to fit that form. Once you've built your form and fit the bow to it, you can learn back tension much, much easier. Your body will be in the proper position to shoot a dynamic surprise shot consistently. You WILL see improvement. Trusting your form and your shot will take time, but it will be worth it.


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## ProtecMan

Thanks again Swami for the tips and links!:thumbs_up


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## J Whittington

The Swami said:


> I shoot a thumb trigger exactly like I shoot a hinge.


winner winner, chicken dinner!


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## carlielos

I hear what your saying about grip, I do not grip my bow I tuck 3 fingers and my index finger is the only one in front of the risor, but Ive been watching World Archery competitions on Youtube and well even tho ev1 says not to and you comment on gripping as aiming........well Sheesh.......most if not all of those WORLD shooters seem to GRIP their bows, men and women alike even Rio Wilde, I watched his form with great attention, he grips, he has his draw set so his NOC is well past the corner of mouth to the rear corner of his eye and uses a kisser button, so if he can do it and be a TOP WORLD competitor I surely can compete in my local leagues the same way, so in Archery theres no difinative answers, its a What works best for you situation! Tho in general there are some things that will help poor form but im no expert, just a life long target and 3D guy who shoots mostly for accuracy while hunting!


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## njshadowwalker

The easiest way to ensure your shots stay strong from the get go, is to draw strong. Hit the wall of the bow firmly and keep it planted there. Itll help prevent creeping and all to familiar out the top of the spot explosion as you fatigue. Especially in a venue such as field archery where you have 28 targets, 4 arrows per target. Not including practice of course or if theres an additionsl 14 targets/shots when an animal round is being shot (nationals, mids, states).


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## super*

I set the peg deep into my thumb and curl my thumb around the peg and start to pull with my back to my shoulder and quit aiming.


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## dgriggs10

*Good info, but grip on thumb release?*

Not sure about the whole proper way to hold the thumb release... I've tried holding it in between the 2nd and 3rd knuckle joints of my hand as well as deep (like brass knuckles)? Does it really matter which option is used as long as the back of the hand is flat and on line with the arrow?


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## x-hunta

dgriggs10 said:


> Not sure about the whole proper way to hold the thumb release... I've tried holding it in between the 2nd and 3rd knuckle joints of my hand as well as deep (like brass knuckles)? Does it really matter which option is used as long as the back of the hand is flat and on line with the arrow?


Try both and do what is most comfortable for you.


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## DumpBear

I am missing something with my new Exxus thumb release?
I am drawing back and it keeps releasing and firing the arrow when I am 3/4 way back?


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## Atascaderobow

DumpBear said:


> I am missing something with my new Exxus thumb release?
> I am drawing back and it keeps releasing and firing the arrow when I am 3/4 way back?


1) It might be set too light, but then they typically won't hold in the locked position at all. If its too high turn in the adjustment until it holds
2) You have your thumb on it as you draw back. Keep that thumb away from the release until you are completely set. Saw that happen the other day on the range.
3) You're hitting the trigger on something as you draw.

Unlike a hinge release the thumb release won't trigger by wrist or back movement until the thumb is brought into the equation. So it will technically never fire if the thumb is free and clear. Sorry if I am preaching to the choir. 

Now back to our scheduled programimg the OP


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## Cris Anderson

Subscribing for future reference.


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## Pete53

it really depends how well you want to become an good or great archer ? not many people shoot thumb release that well i am talking about 300`s 53 x and above all the time. buy these two books idiot proof archery by bernie pellerite & core archery by larry wise. you should find out what type person you are like first,find out if you are more type A or type B maybe C or D this will help you alot. to learn to shoot a thumb release or a hinge correctly may take up to a year or more. archery like golf takes a long time to be great at it but once you do become a better archer you will enjoy archery more,remember this: there are a few archer`s who are mostly a type B person they learn and become great archer`s easier, hopefully you are a type B, i am a type A so i struggle some but my scores are fare.good luck,Pete53


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