# practice scores awesome.... tournaments not so much!!!



## RC-Los17 (Mar 16, 2014)

Hey guys I really been shooting alot of indoor this year. I was mainly a 3D guy but I Def feel indoor helps you. My problem is in practice I am rocking out a 300 30x on a 3 spot and a 300 50+ x on a 5 spot. Shooting really good games in practice... League or tournament time I loose it I get so worried about my score that I drop points almost always I am shooting a little below the X always missing low a bit I know it's my nerves aswell but I just can't figure out why my bow starts to drop. My stab setup is rock solid, I shoot higher poundage cause I like too especially being huge 3D guy. So I am about 68 lb draw, 27.5 I am shooting a Chillx or a Conquest 4 for indoors still waiting on my TRG 7 order... The C4 is about 62 lb. I AM running a 5x lens with a big black dot that covers the gold or on a 5 spot covers the white. Just wanted to see what you guys thought I knoe the mental game is huge.. but there is a reason my bow wants to keep dropping in aim... help lol


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## RC-Los17 (Mar 16, 2014)

Oh for example my 3 spot practice is a 300 30x sometimes inside out even... at leagues I have been stuck at 295, 296... 5 spot I shoot 300 with 50+ x count. This past weekend at a tournament 299 with 41x all my misses were low..


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I think you are confused at what a 300 30x vegas round really is, you mention that you shoot them and sometimes they are even inside out. If you shoot a real 300 30x round every arrow is inside out even with the fattest shafts.

The best way to get over nerves is to go to as many leagues per week every week and then attend bigger shoots and treat the leagues and the big shoots as learning experiences where you are there to do nothing but execute good shots. You aren't there to shoot perfect rounds, just execute as many good shots as you can. then as you mature you will be able to crank out good scoring rounds.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

in a tournament, it's not uncommon to loose your cool, for obvious reasons. 
drown your self in your shot execution, and stop thinking about score or what happens at that end of the shot......what happens at the bow, is what determines what happens at the target, and nothing else. thinking about what you are doing at the bow is something that you can control or change. what happens at the target is what happens at the target, you have no control or influence over that, once the arrow leaves the bow and if the arrow leaves the bow right, it will be right at the target.
too many guys think they can , "think" the arrows into the x-ring, when in reality, all you can do is "think the arrow out of the bow". there's no reason to think about the target.


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## butadol (Dec 26, 2013)

I am the opposite. I have shot my best scores in tournaments. I did not start that way, until I realized that I was NEVER the last guy on the line. 

I shoot league like a tournament. Our leagues are pretty relaxed, we do not run a timer yet I do keep a timer for myself if I think I am going too long. 

The thing about a tournament, unless you are breaking your last shot with 5 seconds left, is that there is a time limit for a reason. 4 minutes for 5 arrows or 2 minutes for 3 arrows is an eternity when the adrenalin of a tournament comes into play. 

Someone once told me, "Nobody is watching you, nobody cares what you are doing" and this was the best advice someone gave me. It was Richard Potter who told me this and he is a hell of a shooter. It is all about executing your game.

There is no rush, let down if you do not feel it. If you are a high X count shooter normally, if you learn to let down if something does not feel right, 90% of the time that next shot will be an X. 

I shoot with a League this 59/60x shooter, but once he enters a tournament he shoots 299/300 44/48 X every time! He cannot explain it, but I know it is because he feels rushed in a tournament. This guy holds on target longer than anyone I have ever seen, yet when I time him at league he is always just under 4 minutes. His misses are almost always his last arrow.

I would suggest to time yourself, while practicing, and only execute "good" or better shots, and always let down when you do not feel it. Check your time after each end, I bet you are rushing. Do not score any arrow after the timer goes off. I am usually starting my last shot with 45 seconds on the clock, that is plenty of time if I need to let down even. 


This is just my 2 cents, my first tournament I felt like I was in hyper speed because I was so worried about that damn clock.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

RC-Los17 said:


> Oh for example my 3 spot practice is a 300 30x sometimes inside out even... at leagues I have been stuck at 295, 296... 5 spot I shoot 300 with 50+ x count. This past weekend at a tournament 299 with 41x all my misses were low..


30 inside out baby X's? I want to see that! 

I know for me, when I miss low its because I'm shooting weak/tentative shots. Those shots are weak/tentative because I'm trying to be too careful. I'm willing to bet you're doing the same thing.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Change your approach. A tournament is not to shoot a score. It's to demonstrate your perfect form 30 or 60 times. Scores follow form, the better your form and execution the better your score. Don't think score, think form and execution, just like in practice.

This is pretty common for an archer who is shooting as well as you, but isn't quite that seasoned in tournaments. Go to as many as possible and focus on process, not results.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

*The only way to get over this phenomena is to shoot tournaments.* I thought I had the ability to overcome this malady (just on shear ability) and stepped on to the indoor line for the first time in 35 years this past weekend at our State Indoor Championship. Neither have I shot an indoor league in three years. So I was pretty indoor tournament cold, but shooting well technically. 

Long story short, I missed 15 x's out of 120 arrows for a 600x105 which is easily 11x's less than what I believed I would shoot. But here's where the story kicks in. I missed one x both days in the second half of the round, I missed 13 of the 15 x's in the first half. If that doesn't already scream pretty loudly look at it this way, first half; 300x47, second half 300X58. :mg:

Therefore you have to be able to shoot when you're under a certain amount of tension. I was not nervous, the x was often sitting dead solid in the middle of my ring for as much as 5 seconds. But the shot wasn't breaking due to tension in my hand. Although it's against your natural tendency you need to be even more aggressive with your firing process in this situation. 

Last, something to think about, it's not always nerves that break you down in those early ends. Some of us, especially us old folks are just *stiff* in the early ends. If you don't do something to get your muscles loosened up you're going to shoot tight for about 30 arrows. I did none of that before shooting this past weekend. :sad:

Learn from my mistakes.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

RC-Los17 said:


> Oh for example my 3 spot practice is a 300 30x sometimes inside out even... at leagues I have been stuck at 295, 296... 5 spot I shoot 300 with 50+ x count. This past weekend at a tournament 299 with 41x all my misses were low..


You may want to reassess your scoring of the Vegas face. There is a "big" difference between a 300 50X NFAA 5 Spot and a 300 30X Vegas. Still good shooting regardless...


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Lazarus said:


> *The only way to get over this phenomena is to shoot tournaments.* I thought I had the ability to overcome this malady (just on shear ability) and stepped on to the indoor line for the first time in 35 years this past weekend at our State Indoor Championship. Neither have I shot an indoor league in three years. So I was pretty indoor tournament cold, but shooting well technically.
> 
> Long story short, I missed 15 x's out of 120 arrows for a 600x105 which is easily 11x's less than what I believed I would shoot. But here's where the story kicks in. I missed one x both days in the second half of the round, I missed 13 of the 15 x's in the first half. If that doesn't already scream pretty loudly look at it this way, first half; 300x47, second half 300X58. :mg:
> 
> ...


I think Laz is onto something with the need to warm up. I've noticed that my worst scores are those nights when I show up late and don't get a chance to warm up properly. This isn't as much of a problem in the morning. I assume because I'm less fatigued earlier in the day... And Laz, you're just a kid!


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

My buddies who shot the missouri stat indoor shoot this weekend struggled with the no warm up thing. The got there early and got registered and thought they would get to warm up but they didn't and they got their two practice ends at the beginning of the scoring round and that was it. I told them that this happens sometimes at indoor shoots and they didn't believe me, mentally it hurt them because of the comfort they usually get from a good warm up.


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## Justin (Aug 11, 2003)

I set up all of my scoring rounds like that to prepare me for those situations.. league night, 2 ends then scoring.. when I go to a shoot and get time to warm up, great.. but I wont freak out if I cant.. I shoot after all of my scoring rounds to make sure if I ever need to go 100+ arrows with a warm up and round I can..


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## RC-Los17 (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks guys, what I meant is I have shot 300 30x with no line breakers inside the x ring not 30 baby X but I have had a high baby X score. And I have shot 5 spot 300 with 50+ x and most are inside out. warm up this past weekend I shot 3 5 spot rounds so 25 arrows they were all inside out. Then I had a malfunction with my blade rest and I was loosing time and I shot a zero. The second game was scored and I shot a 299 with 41x and most of my misses were low. To give a little bio I have only been shooting for 3 years mainly all 3D this is my first year really hitting indoor hard.. not to many tournaments under my belt mostly league play.. The bow was Def aiming low I shortened up the draw today about a little over 1/4 inch it's right at 27.5 where I need it shot today and the bow felt alot better but I know it's nerves and in my head. To be honest I am thinking about round 12 or 10 when I am on round 2 you know. And I get caught up cause my buddies see me practice and then at the tournaments I feel like I have to live up to it when I shoot with them... 3D I just shoot take my time and I could caress I just try to put a nice clean shot.. Indoor I get so worked up on aiming...... I am just being honest


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## JDZ (Mar 23, 2010)

RC-Los17 said:


> Thanks guys, what I meant is I have shot 300 30x with no line breakers inside the x ring not 30 baby X but I have had a high baby X score. And I have shot 5 spot 300 with 50+ x and most are inside out.


I still think you are confusing the X and the 10-ring on the Vegas face. Baby X _is_ the X.

Anyway. Back on topic....


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I actually got to go last night and shoot with a pro indoor shooter and just being on the line with him sent me into trouble, I have shot with him so many times but for some reason being on the line with him screws with me. It took me a good 40 minutes to get myself in check and actually be able to shoot relatively normal, I hate nerves.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

just shooting a "10" on a vegas face, is about the same as shooting an "X" on a blue face target. diameters of the ten ring on a Vegas target and the "X-ring, on a blue face target are very close to the same diameters,... there fore to shoot clean on a Vegas, is relative to shooting straight X's on a blue face. not an easy thing to accomplish.


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## RC-Los17 (Mar 16, 2014)

Ok so on a 5 spot in practice I shoot a 300 56-60x game I have shot a 300 60x on the 5 spot, at league night we score a vertical 3 vegas target and again in practice I have shot a 300 with a high X count, today I had a practice tournament and shot a 600 vegas game today I shot a 590 where in practice I was shooting a 598 - 600 with a high X count 41-44x today my best round was a 295 with 21x. All my misses are a bit low and come mainly when it counts. I know its nerves I really adjusted my DL cause it was a little to long and that helped but I am still aiming low at times. I am not saying I am a great indoor shooter only been shooting indoors for well this is my first real year. I shot mainly 3D last year and I have a total of 3 years shooting. I have shot many tournamnets except for this year I am trying to do at least 5 major tournys if not more.. Is it just nerves that's getting me or is there another reason to drop low.. I had a few really good indoor shooters look at me and they said my hold was really steady and looked good but they did say that I was leaning into the string a little to much.. But the way I anchor I just feel comfortable leaning in a little.. What do you guys think?


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I have been a proponent of observing the most natural , "at ease....just standing around" stance, that you can while shooting. the more deliberately structured your stance is, the more tenseness, there is in the entire platform that supports your shot and just like a tense bow hand, that will input torque into the riser, the condition of your stance will input consistency , into your entire shot execution.


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## Justin (Aug 11, 2003)

I know sometimes my front shoulder creeps up in times of pressure.. First thing in my form that breaks downs, causes me to hold and drop out of the bottom of the X? Possibly what you are doing, only a guess.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Padgett said:


> I actually got to go last night and shoot with a pro indoor shooter and just being on the line with him sent me into trouble, I have shot with him so many times but for some reason being on the line with him screws with me. It took me a good 40 minutes to get myself in check and actually be able to shoot relatively normal, I hate nerves.


This is likely the best practice for competition shooting you could have!

I don't recommend this for EVERYONE, but I think some could benefit by finding other similarly skilled archers and putting a wager on the line. Or even video tapping the "match" for pride's sake.
If you practice some shooting under the gun, you learn to deal with it better than someone who never leaves his home range and doesn't have some good competition.
You could bet on the whole match, or do a head to head where you bet on every round (keeps you on your toes if you start to build a lead).
Again, this might not be for everyone, but if your shooting goes downhill when you get to a tournament, it's likely because you don't have to deal with nerves when your practicing. Practicing shooting when under the gun, means you have more experience being in that situation, and the scores should not suffer as much.


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

What Mahly suggests I have seen a few times at a local shop. for a little stress practice try this, at league, or just a practice session, Shoot for skins!

Meaning, take a roll of quarters or 30$ in 1's. Shoot with /against someone equally or a better shooter than you.
It can cost you $3 or up to $30 just depends on what your shooting for and how much you loose. 

put a dollar on the bales or target and whoever shoots the best per end keeps the dollar or quarter. 

This will add some stress and anxiety for the shooters in a non-tourney setting, and get you close to the same stress or anxiety level. 
Your shooting for score AND for skins! 
This will also allow you to shoot 10 3 arrow "mini tourneys" on a vegas face or 12 ends on the 5 spot. Not keeping a running total in your head, but keeping a simple 3 or 5 arrow score, so whatever it ends up as, it will be. 

Try it, you may like it. maybe not. But it cant hurt anything.


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## RC-Los17 (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks guys I am Def gonna try this it seems when I am shooting against someone I do better cause at our shop we have had a few shoot outs and I have shot clean cause I don't want to loose..lol but at a tournament I get so focused on thay score and how I need to shoot this it just breaks me down I think... I wish I had a pro shooter close to me that I can mentor with cause this is what I want to do I am 35 my goal is to be Pro before I am 40.. I an blessed that I am retired so young and can shoot everyday.. Archery saved my life after I got hurt in the line of duty.. It a passion now and I know it's what I want to do. Like I said i wish there was a experience shooter I can shoot with but I don't know of any here in New Jersey where I am from..


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

Gee, there has got to be someone within 100 miles or so that you may be able to shoot with RC. Maybe go to a different shop or range and ask around? 

One more thing that has helped me do a bit better in archery is my imagination. Not kidding. "Positive mental imagery".

Before I draw, I stare down the x, imagine the perfect shot execution and the arrow hitting the X! This helps to keep my shot cadence under control too so I am not rushing. In a sense I am taking 6 or 10 shots per end, 3 real, 3 mental... keeps the head in the game and does not allow time for "other thoughts" to creep in.

I learned this positive imagery technique from a 1984 wrestler Gold Metal Olympian. One can apply the same mental gig to archery. I also did it with snowboard racing. IT works!

Funny thing if mine I also do: at a shop or range, I also try and imagine the guy next lane over is REO Wilde or some other really great shooter, and I am in a shoot off line with him and whoever else. I will let him shoot first, then try and out shoot their arrows each end. Obviously it helps to have a "good" shooter there shooting a similar target, not a flick and stick shooter just flicking arrows down range.
This adds a bit of pressure and keeps my head in the mental game like you wont believe. Even though it is not REO standing there, in my little mellon it is him. Thats all that matters. Sometimes I win, sometimes "Reo" does. LOL. 

Have fun and enjoy your progress, and your retirement. You earned it!


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

If you can't find someone of your level of shooting, and still want to the wagers/games. you can spot them an X or force you to shoot inside out vs, them cutting a line.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Another option is to go to the range and write today's date on a clean target, take a pic of it, then shoot two practice ends and take a pic with those holes in it. Then shoot your best game and take a picture with the score written on the target where we can all see it. Post all three pics here so we can laugh at you.

Just kidding. No one will laugh at you...... I think. Worst thing you might get is tarot..... I mean target readers filling you with nonsense. :lol:

Seriously though, the only thing I know will improve your tournament scores, is to shoot more tournaments. Get more comfortable with the environment and the people. It is a fairly close knit group of people out there in the real world, even if it doesn't seem as such here. You'll also find that most of the people out there don't post here. This place can have adverse effects on your game if you aren't careful.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Perhaps rather than focusing on the difference in your results you should focus on the difference in your process. Run the competition shot the same as your practice shot and you will get your practice results.
Also it's worth maintaining accurate practice results to compare, sometimes it's easy to remember the good days and dismiss the bad.

-Grant


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

as they say, the actual competition is supposed to be the easy part !


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