# Barebow 2016



## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

All of this barebow talk got me thinking this morning. Right now, we have a great campaign for getting barebow archers to Outdoor Nationals this July in Alabama. A large portion of the goal is to show USAArchery that the ranks of barebow archers are not only alive and well, but also strong and vibrant. I applaud the efforts of the committee that was setup to make this happen and get the butts on the shooting lines. I have no doubt the barebow division will be a success in July!

I'm curious though. What's going to happen next year in 2016? This year will be easy because there is a cause to rally the troops, so to speak. What happens next year when there isn't a cause or a goal to rally behind? When the people show up to shoot the barebow divisions in 2015, but don't come back in 2016, USAArchery isn't going to want to keep the divisions in Outdoor Nationals.

So, how do we get all of these archers that we got all fired up for this year to come back again next year? What can we do to keep the momentum and excitement that we're generating right now running into the future?


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Mulcade said:


> All of this barebow talk got me thinking this morning. Right now, we have a great campaign for getting barebow archers to Outdoor Nationals this July in Alabama. A large portion of the goal is to show USAArchery that the ranks of barebow archers are not only alive and well, but also strong and vibrant. I applaud the efforts of the committee that was setup to make this happen and get the butts on the shooting lines. I have no doubt the barebow division will be a success in July!
> 
> I'm curious though. What's going to happen next year in 2016? This year will be easy because there is a cause to rally the troops, so to speak. What happens next year when there isn't a cause or a goal to rally behind? When the people show up to shoot the barebow divisions in 2015, but don't come back in 2016, USAArchery isn't going to want to keep the divisions in Outdoor Nationals.
> 
> So, how do we get all of these archers that we got all fired up for this year to come back again next year? What can we do to keep the momentum and excitement that we're generating right now running into the future?


The one thing. The only thing USA archery would need to do is hold the 2016 Nationals in California. We have enough barebow shooters to fill slots even if no other state shows up. The problem at this time is that there are a lot of tournaments that barebow archers want to attend and have attended for years. USA archery is not high on most shooters list because of lack of history and all of the competing tournaments in the month of July. Most of the barebow shooters in Calif do not attend the IBO, ASA, and Trad Worlds so they would welcome a target tournament in California.


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## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

itbeso said:


> The one thing. The only thing USA archery would need to do is hold the 2016 Nationals in California. We have enough barebow shooters to fill slots even if no other state shows up. The problem at this time is that there are a lot of tournaments that barebow archers want to attend and have attended for years. USA archery is not high on most shooters list because of lack of history and all of the competing tournaments in the month of July. Most of the barebow shooters in Calif do not attend the IBO, ASA, and Trad Worlds so they would welcome a target tournament in California.


I would agree with that.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Kevin, I think the interest in barebow is only going to keep growing. Mostly because we now have that tool available for our JOAD and AA programs, and that is generating archers who are going to be prepared and eager to shoot Nationals in the next few years.

Also, I think we may see some recurvers drop the sights and stabilizers and come compete with us in barebow. There have always been some barebow archers who slapped a sight and stabilizer on their bows for Nationals, but now given the option will just shoot barebow instead. I think seeing barebow archers will also encourage some recurve archers to give it a try.

We will see. But USArchery cannot take the easy road and expect the archers alone to pull the weight. They have to promote barebow as a legitimate national championship division too. It can't be a one-sided thing, or it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> We will see. But USArchery cannot take the easy road and expect the archers alone to pull the weight. They have to promote barebow as a legitimate national championship division too. It can't be a one-sided thing, or it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.


That's the part I'm worried about. I don't really see USAArchery having much motivation for promoting and encouraging the division. If barebow archers get the impression they're being allowed to play in the sandbox because they were looking dejected, they won't come back next year. On the other hand, if they show up in Decatur and feel like part of the family, there's a good chance they'll be back.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Like I said in another thread, you could use a sort of tier 2 of events outdoors in between local/state stuff and the big stage of nationals. We have several BB people in a local outdoor winter series working on their craft at intermediate distances. But the next step up I can see is nationals. That will scare some people off on expense and/or fear grounds. In an ideal world you're in USAT but failing that you could use some marquee events at a regional or sub-nationals level. Like indoors has Lancaster and Vegas. I also don't think it hurts for momentum to have 20, 30, or more people at some tournament you can go to outside of nationals. I mean, if you can convince someone to go to TAMU's Texas Shootout, and they do OK, then maybe it's not such a jump to be like, Nationals next year? But right now it would be like, ok committed but less confident BB guy who has done nothing above local stuff, pony up $200 entry plus travel as you make the jump from a couple local events to Ohio or Alabama with all the strong performers present.

It might also be useful to have some tier 1 or 2 BB exclusive events with some sponsors and money behind it, if you're trying to sell new people to try it. If there was a purse involved with a few thousand sponsor bucks at stake within driving distance maybe some people who are good but know they're not going to make the Olympics -- and I mean better than me but just not Vic Wunderle -- might dabble and get the bug. But for amateur rewards you're fighting inertia. I can already get that medal at that event in OR.

I also think the competence concerns or jokes need to get played down. Some of the comments I saw about people shooting in the dirt are counter-productive. You need some people taking the risk to build numbers.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Mulcade said:


> That's the part I'm worried about. I don't really see USAArchery having much motivation for promoting and encouraging the division. If barebow archers get the impression they're being allowed to play in the sandbox because they were looking dejected, they won't come back next year. On the other hand, if they show up in Decatur and feel like part of the family, there's a good chance they'll be back.


The barebow group is a FAMILY of their own and strong minded enough to not sweat the small things like being looked down their noses at. Anyone with a knowledge of archery history during the late 70s and through the 80s surely remembers the rise of the non sight bowhunter class. That class got to the point where it was the 2nd most respected class behind Freestyle. This was directly related to the unbelievably high scores being posted year in and year out by two archers whose personalities drew respect. I see that happening now in the barebow recurve division. The scores are going up dramatically and there are more and more barebowers who are taking their craft seriously. Add to that the fact that we are not the staid group that the Oly bunch usually are. Exceptions noted for Brady, Jack, Joe, Ed, and Mike,:teeth:. I think with the breakout of barebow success by this country in the last two WA field championships, our barebow archers have something to emulate and strive for. I'm not sure about John's statement about some of the sight shooters taking equipment off. I think it might be more like they might give up and quit after seeing some of the barebow scores being posted in Decatur.:mg:


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

California is a whole lot cheaper to drive or fly to than Decatur for those who live out west. It will draw at least a dozed from Washington and Oregon. The 1st annual Oregon Barebow challenge last January drew 34 barebow shooters.

Isn't there an olympic archery training center in Chula Vista already?

2016 and beyond? The motivation and desire is there, and will probably exist for a very long time. The real question is will people invest and spend the money and go. If WA allowed barebow in their Target championships, there will be a boat load of people willing to invest the money to attend the nationals far far more so than with the system in place right now.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Mr. Roboto said:


> California is a whole lot cheaper to drive or fly to than Decatur for those who live out west. It will draw at least a dozed from Washington and Oregon. The 1st annual Oregon Barebow challenge last January drew 34 barebow shooters.
> 
> Isn't there an olympic archery training center in Chula Vista already?
> 
> 2016 and beyond? The motivation and desire is there, and will probably exist for a very long time. The real question is will people invest and spend the money and go. If WA allowed barebow in their Target championships, there will be a boat load of people willing to invest the money to attend the nationals far far more so than with the system in place right now.


I hope they do it in the next few years before I get past my prime.:wink:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I think it might be more like they might give up and quit after seeing some of the barebow scores being posted in Decatur.


That's not "big tent" way of thinking and I reject the idea that embarassing anyone should be something we're proud of. 

Yes, there are many JOAD archers who otherwise have shot barebow, but who have put on a sight and clicker and stabilizers to shoot Nationals. I myself have coached 2 such archers in the past 3 years. They do exist, and I suspect if they haven't yet made plans to shoot barebow, once they see the medal ceremonies for JOAD and AA barebow archers, there's a good chance they will strip their bows and come play.

USArchery has a reason to promote the barebow division, because it is consistent with all the promotional material they produce that features barebow archers in movies, etc. It's in USArchery's interest to be able to say "You can compete with us the way Katniss does, no sights required."


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Another way of increasing participation for all disciplines would be have outdoor regionals like indoors and then the top group shoot at nationals. The cut keeps the nationals field size within reason and the aesthetics of, say, the best 8 or 16 OR, BB, and compound for each age in one place would promote each division equally while putting the best competitive foot forward in terms of product. People who don't want to travel far while getting their feet wet can compete regionally, maybe more people compete that way, and you get the high quality finale some want to occur.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That used to be done, in a way, with regional "Olympic festivals" or some such thing. That was before I got in the sport. Others can fill in the blanks.

The trouble with regional qualifying events is that some regions are loaded with good shooters, and others, not so much. That's not fair to good shooters who are surrounded by more good shooters, and gives an unfair advantage to weaker shooters in areas with less competition.


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## hammer08 (Aug 28, 2012)

I think people are intrigued by a lot of the recent barebow talk. I know I am. I picked up barebow about 4 months ago and I'm absolutely hooked. 

I plan on making US archery my focus for next year. Indoor Nationals, Outdoor Nationals, and Field. I already had other events planned for this year so I'll be unable to make any US Archery events. But I'm making those shoots my goal for next year.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

Just to be clear, I'm not wondering how we keep people shooting barebow. I don't think that's going to be an issue for quite some time. What I'm asking is how we get them to come back a second time to the US Outdoor National tournament? Yes, the experienced and grizzly barebow faction doesn't care about what those people think with all the doodads strapped to their bow. Those guys and gals are just there to shoot. They may not even notice they were other people on the line until after the last arrow is flung!

The people I'm concerned with are those who may not have 20-30, or even 5, years in the sport, but still have the same competitive spirit their oly and compound brethren have out on the field. Those are the ones that aren't going to come back next year if they don't feel like a legitimate part of the event. Those are the people who will grow up to be the next generation of experienced and grizzly barebow archers. They're also the ones that will make or break this whole effort.



hammer08 said:


> I think people are intrigued by a lot of the recent barebow talk. I know I am. I picked up barebow about 4 months ago and I'm absolutely hooked.
> 
> I plan on making US archery my focus for next year. Indoor Nationals, Outdoor Nationals, and Field. I already had other events planned for this year so I'll be unable to make any US Archery events. But I'm making those shoots my goal for next year.


Rock on, hammer!! :darkbeer:


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> That's not "big tent" way of thinking and I reject the idea that embarassing anyone should be something we're proud of.
> 
> Yes, there are many JOAD archers who otherwise have shot barebow, but who have put on a sight and clicker and stabilizers to shoot Nationals. I myself have coached 2 such archers in the past 3 years. They do exist, and I suspect if they haven't yet made plans to shoot barebow, once they see the medal ceremonies for JOAD and AA barebow archers, there's a good chance they will strip their bows and come play.
> 
> USArchery has a reason to promote the barebow division, because it is consistent with all the promotional material they produce that features barebow archers in movies, etc. It's in USArchery's interest to be able to say "You can compete with us the way Katniss does, no sights required."


John, as I've said before, you need to get a sense of humor, or at least know when things are being said in fun. With that said, How in the world would shooting the best score you can in barebow not be something to be proud of. You can't control if someone else is going to be embarrassed or not, and if they are embarrassed then there is always the option of putting in the practice time that a lot of the barebowers do. I never get embarrassed when I shoot the best I can and still get beat. As a matter of fact I never get embarrassed shooting my bow. If I get beat, It just makes me want to practice more. It takes a special breed of archer who isn't into the instant gratification scene of sights and such to succeed at barebow. As has been in the past, all the successful barebow types are some of the most giving and encouraging role models for anyone trying that discipline. Anyone out there that has ever been at a shoot and wanted to ask questions of the barebow crowd but didn't, for any reason, made a mistake because I feel we are the most approachable group in archery.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

itbeso said:


> The one thing. The only thing USA archery would need to do is hold the 2016 Nationals in California.


I vote for that, big-time! Failing that, maybe California could have an Outdoor Barebow Challenge and invite the rest of the country. I've often thought it would be cool to have a nationally advertised barebow camp in California with some of the big names in the sport sharing their wisdom; there could be a camp followed by a barebow-only tournament. PS: Why doesn't California have a state fita field -- a favorite format for BB shooters? PPS: Why isn't California posting its indoor nationals preliminary results like the other venues?


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Is it worth asking these guys to host WA style barebow national outdoor target archery championships http://usarcherytraditional.org/index.html


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Serious Fun said:


> Is it worth asking these guys to host WA style barebow national outdoor target archery championships http://usarcherytraditional.org/index.html


No.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> Is it worth asking these guys to host WA style barebow national outdoor target archery championships http://usarcherytraditional.org/index.html


Divide and conquer. Nice.

No Bob, FITA barebow - a World Archery discipline recognized with a world championship event - should be a mainstream discipline, not relegated to some separate part of the schedule. 



> Why doesn't California have a state fita field


That is an excellent question. Even us Texans have a state fita field event (thanks in large part to Rick Stonebraker).


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

itbeso said:


> . I never get embarrassed when I shoot the best I can and still get beat. As a matter of fact I never get embarrassed shooting my bow. If I get beat, It just makes me want to practice more. It takes a special breed of archer who isn't into the instant gratification scene of sights and such to succeed at barebow. As has been in the past, all the successful barebow types are some of the most giving and encouraging role models for anyone trying that discipline. Anyone out there that has ever been at a shoot and wanted to ask questions of the barebow crowd but didn't, for any reason, made a mistake because I feel we are the most approachable group in archery.





I feel the same way..if you didn't ask the question of one of the BB shooters it's your loss..I've never asked for help from anyone in our group that I didn't get help.

Dewayne


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I think it's safe to say the only "secrets" in barebow result from the failure to ask a question. Every barebow archer I've ever known was an open book, willing to be read. Funny thing about barebow archers - they want you to learn as much as you can so that you can give them competition and drive them to be even better.

A perfect example of this - last weekend, while Rick Stonebraker was in the middle of setting the new Masters indoor barebow record, I mentioned how much trouble I was having seeing my arrow in that flourescent lighting. He quickly suggested I increase my crawl and try covering the gold instead of gapping on the blue/black line like I had been doing. He explained he couldn't see his arrow very well either, but he knew when that gold disappeared, his arrow was aimed where it needed to be. 

Made sense to me. You don't often get that kind of help on the line from top shooters in any other discipline.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> I think it's safe to say the only "secrets" in barebow result from the failure to ask a question. Every barebow archer I've ever known was an open book, willing to be read. Funny thing about barebow archers - they want you to learn as much as you can so that you can give them competition and drive them to be even better.
> 
> A perfect example of this - last weekend, while Rick Stonebraker was in the middle of setting the new Masters indoor barebow record, I mentioned how much trouble I was having seeing my arrow in that flourescent lighting. He quickly suggested I increase my crawl and try covering the gold instead of gapping on the blue/black line like I had been doing. He explained he couldn't see his arrow very well either, but he knew when that gold disappeared, his arrow was aimed where it needed to be.
> 
> Made sense to me. You don't often get that kind of help on the line from top shooters in any other discipline.


Perfect example of what I was saying. And even if you and Rick weren't good friends, there is no doubt in my mind that you would've got the same tip.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Divide and conquer. Nice.
> 
> No Bob, FITA barebow - a World Archery discipline recognized with a world championship event - should be a mainstream discipline, not relegated to some separate part of the schedule.
> 
> ...


Up here in Washington State, we have a FITA Field. In fact, Spokane even hosts to USAA FITA Field National Championships from time to time.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> I think it's safe to say the only "secrets" in barebow result from the failure to ask a question. Every barebow archer I've ever known was an open book, willing to be read. Funny thing about barebow archers - they want you to learn as much as you can so that you can give them competition and drive them to be even better.
> 
> A perfect example of this - last weekend, while Rick Stonebraker was in the middle of setting the new Masters indoor barebow record, I mentioned how much trouble I was having seeing my arrow in that flourescent lighting. He quickly suggested I increase my crawl and try covering the gold instead of gapping on the blue/black line like I had been doing. He explained he couldn't see his arrow very well either, but he knew when that gold disappeared, his arrow was aimed where it needed to be.
> 
> Made sense to me. You don't often get that kind of help on the line from top shooters in any other discipline.


Wait, wait, back the truck up - beep - beep - beep.

Fluorescent lights makes arrow tips blurry? At the state blue face championship last weekend, my tips were so blurry, they looked transparent. Fluorescent lights right over the shooting line. I have never had fluorescent lights mess with me so much before. It was driving me crazy because I just couldn't lock in on my regular aiming point. I kept shooting high all day long. Shooting NFAA Trad style it was a struggle to push the tip further down when I wasn't sure where I was aiming. Normally I am aiming 3 inches below paper with the arrows I was using. Any other suggestions about how to deal with fluorescent lights?


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Mr. Roboto said:


> Wait, wait, back the truck up - beep - beep - beep.
> 
> Fluorescent lights makes arrow tips blurry? At the state blue face championship last weekend, my tips were so blurry, they looked transparent. Fluorescent lights right over the shooting line. I have never had fluorescent lights mess with me so much before. It was driving me crazy because I just couldn't lock in on my regular aiming point. I kept shooting high all day long. Shooting NFAA Trad style it was a struggle to push the tip further down when I wasn't sure where I was aiming. Normally I am aiming 3 inches below paper with the arrows I was using. Any other suggestions about how to deal with fluorescent lights?



powder.... powder on your tip. Just like Clarence does.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

rsarns said:


> powder.... powder on your tip. Just like Clarence does.


Damn Northwest cheaters.:teeth:


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## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> ..... increase my crawl and try covering the gold instead of gapping on the blue/black line like I had been doing....


John, would you please explain what it means by increasing crawl covering the gold? I tend to have problems seeing my arrows because of old eyes 

Thanks.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Any other suggestions about how to deal with fluorescent lights?


When I figure it out, I'll let you know. I practice a lot in my back yard, at 18M and can see my arrow plain as day. Shoot some great scores. Then I go indoors under flourescent lighting and I usually end up shooting "instinctively" and just let my body aim the arrow because I can't see the bloody shaft. Like you said, it just becomes this ghost image. I had a similar issue indoors with the Oly. bow, which is why I eventually began making my own apertures that were very thick rings and painted a matte black - just so I could see them. 

Flourescent lighting over the archers just sucks. I'd rather have a dark venue with lighting over the bales so at least I have a silhouette of my arrow or aperture to aim with.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

rsarns said:


> powder.... powder on your tip. Just like Clarence does.


Ren they don't listen


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> That used to be done, in a way, with regional "Olympic festivals" or some such thing. That was before I got in the sport. Others can fill in the blanks.
> 
> The trouble with regional qualifying events is that some regions are loaded with good shooters, and others, not so much. That's not fair to good shooters who are surrounded by more good shooters, and gives an unfair advantage to weaker shooters in areas with less competition.


I guess the way around that is to qualify by score, not placement. But, outdoors there's no way to have a distributed outdoor tournament and have it be fair if score is the criteria (outdoor conditions are too disparate - wind, etc), and, as John said, strength of skill can vary a lot from region to region. I think 'outdoors' has to be one venue.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> When I figure it out, I'll let you know. I practice a lot in my back yard, at 18M and can see my arrow plain as day. Shoot some great scores. Then I go indoors under flourescent lighting and I usually end up shooting "instinctively" and just let my body aim the arrow because I can't see the bloody shaft. Like you said, it just becomes this ghost image. I had a similar issue indoors with the Oly. bow, which is why I eventually began making my own apertures that were very thick rings and painted a matte black - just so I could see them.
> 
> Flourescent lighting over the archers just sucks. I'd rather have a dark venue with lighting over the bales so at least I have a silhouette of my arrow or aperture to aim with.


Compounds experience something similar. Inside, at least for me, the peep sight is just a hole that I'm looking through and it's right on top of me. When I get out side, the peep seems to be a foot away from my face and I can see all of the peep housing, the string, the serving holding the peep in place, and THEN the aperture to look through. The first time I ever shot outdoors was a bit unnerving.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

lksseven said:


> I guess the way around that is to qualify by score, not placement. But, outdoors there's no way to have a distributed outdoor tournament and have it be fair if score is the criteria (outdoor conditions are too disparate - wind, etc), and, as John said, strength of skill can vary a lot from region to region. I think 'outdoors' has to be one venue.


Nah, not just for qualifying scores. We had qualifying events all over the U.S. before the 04 trials. If someone didn't shoot their score at one event, they just went to another, until they did. The fact that at some point in the previous 12 months, someone has shot a qualifying score, should be good enough. With all the outdoor events available - and more would pop up if qualifiers were required - it won't be a problem. 

Again, IMO, this will increase the number of events at the local and regional levels.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

itbeso said:


> Damn Northwest cheaters.:teeth:


Old age and treachery....


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

2413gary said:


> Ren they don't listen


that's ok.... I just took both my trophies and went home....


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Nah, not just for qualifying scores. We had qualifying events all over the U.S. before the 04 trials. If someone didn't shoot their score at one event, they just went to another, until they did. The fact that at some point in the previous 12 months, someone has shot a qualifying score, should be good enough. With all the outdoor events available - and more would pop up if qualifiers were required - it won't be a problem.
> 
> Again, IMO, this will increase the number of events at the local and regional levels.


Ahh, I get it. Not just a one-time opp (when the wind might be blowing 30mph in one venue, and Zero mph in another), but 'a qualifying' score shot sometime within the last 12 months or something ... that makes much more sense.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

rsarns said:


> powder.... powder on your tip. Just like Clarence does.


Ding, ding, ding...winner!


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Mulcade said:


> Right now, we have a great campaign for getting barebow archers to Outdoor Nationals this July in Alabama?


Ok, I will ask the stupid question.... 

What, exactly is this particular competition. I am assuming it is field. How many arrows, what distances, marked or unmarked, etc.....????

Is there a website directing to USA Archery rules and events?? 

Thanks in advance.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

UrbanDeerSlayer said:


> Ok, I will ask the stupid question....
> 
> What, exactly is this particular competition. I am assuming it is field. How many arrows, what distances, marked or unmarked, etc.....????
> 
> ...


Tony, this is target archery. 72 arrows each day at 60 meters on the 122 centimeter target for us adults. Field is a different ballgame. The National fita field is being held in Yankton, South Dakota In late September. That consists of 24 marked field targets and 24 unmarked. John will probably add more detail.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yup, Urban, we're talking about the annual Outdoor National Championships, held this year in Alabama. It will feature the top compound, Olympic recurve, and now BAREBOW archers in the U.S., shooting at 80cm (compound) or 122cm target faces (recurve and barebow), same that are used in the Olympic and World Championship (and world cup) events. 

For USArchery, this is considered the premier event each year.


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## Eriks (Nov 8, 2011)

I thought it was 70M.

It's 60M?

It's going to be humid in Alabama in July.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Eriks said:


> I thought it was 70M.


Okay. Not sure why, since USArchery has yet to publish the format.



> It's 60M?


For Seniors and Masters, yes.



> It's going to be humid in Alabama in July.


Then don't come. Good grief.


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## Eriks (Nov 8, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> Okay. Not sure why, since USArchery has yet to publish the format.


Because it appears from the published results that recurves shot 70M last year.





limbwalker said:


> Then don't come. Good grief.


Chill out. It was an observation, nothing more. No need to get your panties in a twist.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Eriks said:


> Because it appears from the published results that recurves shot 70M last year.


Operative word - Recurve.



> Chill out. It was an observation, nothing more. No need to get your panties in a twist.


I just get tired of people whining when there will be about 800 archers who are happy to take their spot on the line.


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## Sosius (Feb 5, 2014)

Wait, John wears panties? [emoji48]


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Sosius said:


> Wait, John wears panties? [emoji48]


LOL. 

I was actually about to tell him the same thing.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Yup, Urban, we're talking about the annual Outdoor National Championships, held this year in Alabama. It will feature the top compound, Olympic recurve, and now BAREBOW archers in the U.S., shooting at 80cm (compound) or 122cm target faces (recurve and barebow), same that are used in the Olympic and World Championship (and world cup) events.
> 
> For USArchery, this is considered the premier event each year.


Thanks, but some clarification please. I am under 50 years old (not by much, lol), so I would not be considered Master's or Senior. So.......... shooting Barebow for me would be at 60m or 70m?? 

Also, does anyone have a link to the equipment rules for Barebow?

Thanks, Tony


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

USArchery follows World Archery equipment rules and age divisions. Strangely, they call us under 50 guys "seniors" and the over 50 crowd "masters"... I think that's weird, but it is what it is. Adult would have been more logical. NFAA uses the term "senior" for their over 50, just to confuse all the newbies. LOL.

All senior and masters barebow archers will shoot 60 meters. Only recurve (Olympic style) shoot 70 meters. 

Equipment rules can be found on the world archery website, here:

http://rulebook.worldarchery.org/PDF/Official/2015-01-01/EN-Book4.pdf

Bottom of page 5, at 22.3


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

What is really funny about this is that the NFAA changed the age group for adults to 50 years of age from the previous 55 so that they will be the same with USAA. So on the one hand the NFAA decides to copy the USAA, but on the other hand, there is a fight with having a common set of rules for barebow. Go figure.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Mr. Roboto said:


> What is really funny about this is that the NFAA changed the age group for adults to 50 years of age from the previous 55 so that they will be the same with USAA. So on the one hand the NFAA decides to copy the USAA, but on the other hand, there is a fight with having a common set of rules for barebow. Go figure.


That was a step in the right direction. The 12" stabilizer was a step in the wrong direction. It's really as simple as that. Frankly, having 54 year-olds compete against 25 year-olds was not real fair, esp. in the Oly. recurve division where the physical demands are at their highest. Compound and to a degree, barebow, are not as big a deal, but tell me what 54 year-old has eyesight as good as most 25 year-olds?


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

But what is the difference between a 50 year old and a 54 year old competing against that 25 year old? I am 52 now and I am shooting better now then I did when I was 50. My eyesight was pathetic when I was 50 as it is now. I can't legally drive without glasses. I don't think there is much difference between 50 and 54, at least for a strength and endurance point of view.

But the move towards making the age divisions within the NFAA more compliant with the WA/USAA age divisions is in the right direction. Having a Oly and Compound divisions compliant with WA/USAA organizations is also the right thing to do. So lets get a barebow-recurve division that is also compliant. Lets be consistent.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Ask any athelete what difference it makes. It is huge. Stamina, strength and more importantly, reflexes and acuity all decline with age. Individual exceptions aside, your 50yo self would kick the bejesus out of your 54yo version.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

LOL.

I am starting to think my 42 year-old self would kick the bejesus out of my 45 year old self. LOL.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

rsarns said:


> powder.... powder on your tip. Just like Clarence does.


This is one reason I like the X23 shafts indoors. The silver shows up well. Also while I did not shoot my nano’s last year I intend to be this year and I always felt like it was pretty easy to pick up the long stainless tips on those.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Actually, that's one reason I shot my old blue X7 Cobalts this year. The blue was easier for me to see than the black x-busters or any other arrow I had. But yea, I probably should have just stuck with my Nano Pro's, as the finer point seems to be easier to place. I'm already on to outdoors (after our Saturday 25M event), so I'll figure out something to do for next year. 

Unless of course I manage to pull another top 16 cut out of thin air this September, in which case my barebow archery may have to wait another year.


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