# ATTN Indiana Bowhunters: 2011-2015 Indiana Deer Season Changes



## Main Beam

*This is a very important thread to Indiana bowhunters who support the scientific approach to deer management rather than the traditional deer management we have had in our state. I will post all the proposed season changes and rules once they are available (should be in the next few days). Also I will be sure to post the online survey. Indiana bowhunters this is a great time to voice our opinions. 

Our state has made great strides with the OBR, but more great things are to come for the Hoosier state.*


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## Jose Boudreaux

Main Beam said:


> This is a very important thread to Indiana bowhunters who support the scientific approach to deer management rather than the traditional deer management we have had in our state. I will post all the proposed season changes and rules once they are available (should be in the next few days). Also I will be sure to post the online survey. Indiana bowhunters this is a great time to voice our opinions. Our state has made great strides with the OBR, but more great things are to come for the Hoosier state.


also be sure to look for this in the Bowhunting Section


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## I like Meat

Ive been following this closely on Hoosierhunting.com .... I'll be glad to give my 2 cents when ready


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## Scarlet Dew

Changes are a comin'.............:darkbeer:


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## flintcreek6412

Season's and bag limits aside, will this also include a change in the non-resident fees? I'd like to see IL residents who are so proud of their tags and draws have to endure that same issue as they cross our border. OH, KY, MI, you guys are OK in my book:darkbeer:


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## Bubba Dean

Flintcreek is right on with Illinois fees. I think Indiana should have reciprocal fees with every state.....if it costs an Indiana resident $400 for a deer tag then it cost a resident of that state $400.

As far as the limit on deer....the one buck rule should be making more big bucks however the management of does is such that every county is managed like it is over run with does. Where I live in Allen County those that hunted in my section this year acted like there were 100 deer/sq mi. Part of that problem stems from folks hunting land they don't own or have any connection too. By not spending time there out of season they don't realize or care how many deer are there. Only how many they can kill when they are there hunting.


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## Main Beam

Bubba Dean said:


> .
> 
> As far as the limit on deer....the one buck rule should be making more big bucks.


The OBR (One Buck Rule) has greatly helped us get a more mature age class of bucks to hunt. Two issues that are presently keeping us from producing more mature bucks are: 

1.) 32 days of gun season; 16 days firearms and 16 days M/L 

2.) gun season that falls during the rut


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## Scarlet Dew

Main Beam said:


> Two issues that are presently keeping us from producing more mature bucks are:
> 
> 1.) 32 days of gun season; 16 days firearms and 16 days M/L
> 
> 2.) gun season that falls during the rut


*Nobody* needs 32 days of guns season to kill a buck............


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## X-SHOOTER

I have a feeling that they may try to do the earn a buck program, where you cannot harvest a buck until you harvest a doe. I hope that this is not the case, all it will do is open up more problems of people poaching. I think these programs are silly, it would really stink to have to pass a nice buck when the opportunity for a doe has not presenteed itself. I for one will shoot does for the meat all year long, but there have been times when the right opportunity did not present itself until late in the year. There will be a lot of pressure on people to shoot a doe, and people will be taking unethical pop shots at them just to get their antlerless.


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## bigben55

I hunt Indiana, live in Ohio and pay the $150 out of state fee without *****ing about it. But, if Indiana is serious about legitimately wanting to reduce the antlerless herd in selected areas, how about letting out of staters take a doe without having to shell out another $150? I ate a tag 2 years ago because it was "buck only." I would have gladly taken a doe for the freezer using that buck tag on the last day I hunted out there. But not for another $150. And this is in a county that offers 8 bonus antlerless tags per hunter.


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## X-SHOOTER

Scarlet Dew said:


> *Nobody* needs 32 days of guns season to kill a buck............


Seems that way but, there have been gun seasons that I have not seen many deer or got a shot, when I was seeing tons before gun opened, gun seems easier but is not a given.


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## indiana redneck

*I would love to see Indiana shorten there firearms & m.l. seasons.:thumbs_up*


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## mathews694

*Firearm*

I am all for a later short gun season. I am not in favor however of earn a buck. I have seen a drastic drastic drop in the doe population in the two counties I hunt here in Southern Indiana. It was actually way into bow season before I seen a doe...tons of buttom bucks and yearling bucks...
I also know of three local check in stations where the deer harvest was down in a major way.


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## ohiopeace

I also live in Ohio but bowhunt in Indiana. I hunt in Switzerland county, and in the past few years have taken anywhere from 4 to 7 deer a year. I do my part in shooting a lot of does when hunting, and while I enjoy it, I do not enjoy paying the $150 for that first doe tag. I will continue to hunt, as the area has very good deer...but I'd really like to be able to pay $24 a pop for all the does I shoot.

As far as the gun season goes, I think it is a little excessive, but I am not a resident in Indiana, so it is really not up to me or any other non-resident.


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## gjtro

if they are going to change the antlerless harvest in targeted areas to a larger number then they need to lower the harvest in the non targeted areas. i know in howard co where i hunt 4 does are allowed, with close to 400 does and 200 bucks harvested, i dont see an over abundance of does. yet in heavily hunted areas the population is down due to the vast farmland consentrating the deer to "huntable" or disirable huntable areas and with all the people hunting there, they are whacking as many does as they can. follow me?
then they go to the next county, whack those does, off to the next county and whack all those does....etc, and "donate" to the food bank. well here in howard county the rescue mission feeds the bums and the chomos, so all you whack-em and stack-em donate-em to the hungry might wanna investigate a little further. i know i am not donating one deer to the bums and chomos that wont get a job cause their too drunk or chasing little boy/ girls. im all for feeding the needy/ elderly, but it just dont get done around here.
im just saying eat what you kill and dont kill for the sake of killing and rationalize with donation. lower the limit of doe tags in proportion to the number of kills per county. and for god sakes set a limit for the life time/ whakem-stakems to like 4 maybe, not 8, 10, 12, like some people i know.....guyt


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## unloaded

As an IN resident and one who will be bowhunting for the first time this year, this thread has my attention. Sadly I wasn't even aware any changes were in the works. Can somebody list the expected changes? The OBR would eliminate the Urban and Special Hunt bonus bucks?

peace.
unloaded


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## HuntMeister

unloaded said:


> As an IN resident and one who will be bowhunting for the first time this year, this thread has my attention. Sadly I wasn't even aware any changes were in the works. Can somebody list the expected changes? The OBR would eliminate the Urban and Special Hunt bonus bucks?
> 
> peace.
> unloaded


I don't believe there is a published list yet...stay tuned though as I understand the DNR will very soon be announcing the changes and giving the general public the opportunity to comment.


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## Bowbuster

flintcreek6412 said:


> Season's and bag limits aside, will this also include a change in the non-resident fees? I'd like to see IL residents who are so proud of their tags and draws have to endure that same issue as they cross our border. OH, KY, MI, you guys are OK in my book:darkbeer:


I would agree with that only if the guy from IL was a politician and in that case, charge him triple.... It's not the Residents who ran the price up, it's our greedy, pound scum turkey scat politicians, don't be hating the residents we are good people cought in the middle.......


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## Lagrange

I wonder if the DNR statistics include all of the deer taken by the Amish here in the north. Lets just say that there is an element here that dosnt play by the same rules that the rest of us have to.
This isnt a cultural thing. My next door neighbor is Amish and probably one of the greatest guys you will ever meet. I just bet the DNR misses this issue when calculating harvest requirements.


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## stinkysbuddy6x5

*indiana regs.*

cant wait to see the "old guard" blow their tops, gonna be a hoot. go indiana


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## Crimefighter

Step by Step, Indiana is making progress in getting a better age class of bucks.

GOOD TIMES ahead for Hoosier Hunters.


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## Scarlet Dew

I look into my crystal ball..............I see the *future* rankings for Big Azz Bucks.............

1) Indiana
2) Ohio
3) Illinois
4) Iowa


3 "*I*'s" and one big "*O*"............

*Indiana* is about to take a Quantum Leap...........

You heard it first here on Archery Talk............:shade::shade::shade:


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## Main Beam

indiana ******* said:


> *I would love to see Indiana shorten there firearms & m.l. seasons.:thumbs_up*


:zip:........:wink:.......


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## DeerHuntin79923

indiana ******* said:


> *i would love to see indiana shorten there firearms & m.l. Seasons.:thumbs_up*


+1!!!


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## Scarlet Dew

What's that I smell in the air................??

Smells like Christmas??? :cocktail:


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## Crimefighter

Watch out P&Y and B&C Books.

Indiana is about to be seen even more in the near future!! :wink:


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## jkennedy2122

Anybody have any inside info on this? Tell me!!!


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## Scarlet Dew

jkennedy2122 said:


> Anybody have any inside info on this? Tell me!!!


Information will be released officially by our IDNR within days............stay tuned. :darkbeer:


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## solohunter

ttt


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## MBXXX

Indiana has so much potential....the insane gun laws have for years destroyed the quality of deer. I live in a large county with a record harvest for 09, however, the doe harvest numbers arent making a dent. So many gun hunters here will mow down a beautiful 1 1/2 buck before thinking of taking a doe, and over the years its gotten out of hand. The changes that have been mentioned here will have a very positive impact on the quality in no time. Does are tasty.....lets all earn our chance at a buck with some fine slick ka-bobs, leave the slugs at home until early December, and watch Indiana blossom into what it has the potential to be......


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## Beachtree

how about 3 day gun season in december if u dont like it become a bowhunter.


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## flintcreek6412

Bowbuster said:


> I would agree with that only if the guy from IL was a politician and in that case, charge him triple.... It's not the Residents who ran the price up, it's our greedy, pound scum turkey scat politicians, don't be hating the residents we are good people cought in the middle.......


I agree because I have family in IL with great ground but I'm not about to spend that money on a tag. But as mentioned earlier it also ticks me off that I can get a doe tag for $15 there but for my uncles to come here to kill a doe they've got to drop some serious cash. Non of it makes a lick of sense and I can't stand that I have to draw by county just for a doe tag there.


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## unloaded

The survey is up, be sure and fill it out. There is a new thread with a link to it but I'm gonna add it here too:

http://www.in.gov/portal/news_events/53319.htm

peace.
unloaded


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## Main Beam

You beat me to it, Unloaded. 

I just filled my survey out.:cocktail:

They asked many good questions that get to the point of what our state's deer management needs. 

REDUCE an PUSH BACK gun season = MORE MATURE BUCKS


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## Mooreski

Well, I just finished taking it. Hope the changes are for the better.


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## I like Meat

Just finished it over on Hoosierhunting..... cut back the length of the firearms season, lower $$ antlerless tags, and no crossguns in Archery season(put them in the gun season and later (where they belong)....:thumbs_up


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## Scarlet Dew

Has this been put up on the Real Tree site yet??? Alot of bow-hunter friendly people out there!!


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## grizzl

Main Beam said:


> *This is a very important thread to Indiana bowhunters who support the scientific approach to deer management rather than the traditional deer management we have had in our state.
> 
> Our state has made great strides with the OBR, but more great things are to come for the Hoosier state.*


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

Hmmmmmm...big mature bucks...:tongue:

Lead the way!!!


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## woodmaster

Scarlet Dew said:


> *Nobody* needs 32 days of guns season to kill a buck............



LOL...if it was up to me there would be NO gun season. 

BUT remember not everyone can take vacation during gun season so they only have a few days OUT OF the 32. 

AND gun hunters (like bowhunters) hunt for more than just bucks. In my county you can kill 4 does and a buck. Drive 10 miles to the next county and you can kill 8 does.

I hate the way Indiana manages the deer herd.....I'm usually in Illinois during November.


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## jkennedy2122

Does anybody else not understand the package deal offering the archery, firearms, AND muzzleloader tags for one price? If you are lucky enough to harvest your buck in early archery, you just wasted like fifty bucks. Am I correct on this one or just not getting it??


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## Scarlet Dew

Again...........here is the link to fill out..........

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm


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## Archeroni

I do know they are going to allow the taking of a buck ("antlered deer") during the youth season in September, which is a change.

The youth season has been around for 3 or 4 years now and antlerless only until this year.

I actually like this change even though I am a bowhunter as I don't think THAT many bucks will be taken but it will greatly increase a kids chance at a buck which is good for the hunting tradition, IMO.


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## Rothhar1

Main Beam said:


> The OBR (One Buck Rule) has greatly helped us get a more mature age class of bucks to hunt. Two issues that are presently keeping us from producing more mature bucks are:
> 
> 1.) 32 days of gun season; 16 days firearms and 16 days M/L
> 
> 2.) gun season that falls during the rut


I do not support what the IDHA & IBHA are pushing at the hunters in Indiana in these new proposals at all. The rut is what drags the big ones out to be shot we only take a pitiful 55,000 antlered bucks a year its not like we are getting deep into the buck population here we are just barely making a dent .

Besides the last 5 year plan was put on us for another 5 . I say leave the seasons alone and tackle the real problem .The tag structure and cost for residents it is way way out of control . Bow hunters in Indiana have very little management clout since the better ones are done and out of the woods come gun because they have tagged their buck and usually a doe by gun . So by taking the second buck away all that IDNR did was remove some of the best herd managers from the gun season since what drags most hunters here to the woods is antlers . A hunter on the couch will never shoot an extra doe but a good hunter on stand is more likely to take that second doe just for fun if nothing else. Think about it .Besides this whole thing you are posting about is not supposed to be about growing bigger bucks and moving seasons and weapons its about taking more does from areas that need it not a state wide hammer . :angry:

My group of hunters will see you at the meetings in organized fashion when the are held this will plan reeks of antler worship and selfishness. There are better ways to reduce the doe herd and reward the hunters who do it on the state level.:thumbs_up


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## Rothhar1

jkennedy2122 said:


> Does anybody else not understand the package deal offering the archery, firearms, AND muzzleloader tags for one price? If you are lucky enough to harvest your buck in early archery, you just wasted like fifty bucks. Am I correct on this one or just not getting it??


Yes you are that is why I suggested a buck only or either sex tag that can be used all season in every season til it is filled back when they were taking suggestions . But once agin polotics and money grabbing is as strong as ever here in Indiana.


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## Scarlet Dew

Shouldernuke! said:


> My group of hunters will see you at the meetings in organized fashion when the are held this will plan reeks of antler worship and selfishness. There are better ways to reduce the doe herd and reward the hunters who do it on the state level.:thumbs_up


*LOL!!!!*

Then you better be prepared to answer the *ultimate question* the IDNR will have for your group............

..........but you'll find out what that is at the meeting. :darkbeer:

The people of this state have had it up to our ears with 32 days of guns going off.....32 days of buck hunting, and taking a doe after you possibly got your buck............and 32 days of *not* being effective taking does with a gun. Every year we have seen and witnessed what 32 days of selfish buck hunting has done to our states potential..........and have witnessed first hand how it has contributed to our OUT OF CONTROL antlerless herd. 

Yup............the "Old School" of "_32 days of gun hunting lovers _" has alot of explaining to do.

There's a New Sherriff in town...........and "the old way" ain't gonna cut it anymore. :wink:

We know what "reeks"..........and we're about to clean it up!! :wink:


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## indiana redneck

*I am glad Indiana is finally taking that step in the right direction. I would love to see the shotgun season start in December & only last 5 days & the M.L. season start in January & last 5 days. I would be tickled to death if that was to happen. I also hope to see the 1 buck rule stay in place forever cause i got really tired of pulling in to the check station & seeing guys bragging about the spikes, fork horns & half racks that they had laying in the bed of there trucks & them saying "im going to go out & get me another buck in the morning". The 1 buck rule makes most not all hunters actually think about taking an immature buck, if a hunter wants to waste his 1 & only buck tag on a dink buck more power to him. I am a die-hard supporter of the 1 buck rule.:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up*


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## Rothhar1

Scarlet Dew said:


> *LOL!!!!*
> 
> Then you better be prepared to answer the *ultimate question* the IDNR will have for your group............
> 
> ..........but you'll find out what that is at the meeting. :darkbeer:
> 
> The people of this state have had it up to our ears with 32 days of guns going off.....32 days of buck hunting, and taking a doe after you possibly got your buck............and 32 days of *not* being effective taking does with a gun. Every year we have seen and witnessed what 32 days of selfish buck hunting has done to our states potential..........and have witnessed first hand how it has contributed to our OUT OF CONTROL antler less herd.
> 
> Yup............the "Old School" of "_32 days of gun hunting lovers _" has alot of explaining to do.
> 
> There's a New Sherriff in town...........and "the old way" ain't gonna cut it anymore. :wink:
> 
> We know what "reeks"..........and we're about to clean it up!! :wink:




New Shariff Whos is that old OBR JOE . Same old Joe :wink:

Yip so do I elitists and a haveing just a few voices being herd and consided at the state level . We managed the herd just fine . So what do you think is going to happen if you shorten gun days or move it back to even more inclemat weather to the doe herd ?? You are so worried about the buck herd what did the OBR do did it put a 200 inche typical in the books for your silly little horn porn club ??? Let me answer that NO ! Did the OBR put a giant buck in every woods NO . Will moveing gun season back make the hunters who struggle killing big bucks better or more successful NO . It is not the the answer and you know that and nither is the current push to open up guns on the doe herd in the middle of the rut for aweek before they get to take a shot a buck . I am smart enoug h to know that there ill be a huge majority of gun hunters want some answers and they could care less about personal adjendas.They just want to hunt for what they want and if that is one buck that was left faily unmolested by 250,000 lead thowers that are shooting bucks off of the nose of a buck just a few days prior to thier season that is what they will ultimatly get be it now or 5 years from now . 

With age comes wisdom in most cases but in this one it reeks of personal buck hording adjendas .We will see see and yes I have an answer to the big question but it did not fit the adjenda if your leader! One thing is for sure we will both be throw head long in any managment program that is finally established whether you or I like it or not. 

Oh ya if a guy is not killing a mature buck in any year it is not because they are not out ther it is because the hunter is doing something wrong and if a hunter wants to shoot a 1.5 year old 8 pointer so be it it is none of your or mine Bussiness!:angry:


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## Scarlet Dew

*Prettttty interesting..............You first type with good grammar, correctly spelled words, well organized text.........*



Shouldernuke! said:


> I do not support what the IDHA & IBHA are pushing at the hunters in Indiana in these new proposals at all. The rut is what drags the big ones out to be shot we only take a pitiful 55,000 antlered bucks a year its not like we are getting deep into the buck population here we are just barely making a dent .
> 
> Besides the last 5 year plan was put on us for another 5 . I say leave the seasons alone and tackle the real problem .The tag structure and cost for residents it is way way out of control . Bow hunters in Indiana have very little management clout since the better ones are done and out of the woods come gun because they have tagged their buck and usually a doe by gun . So by taking the second buck away all that IDNR did was remove some of the best herd managers from the gun season since what drags most hunters here to the woods is antlers . A hunter on the couch will never shoot an extra doe but a good hunter on stand is more likely to take that second doe just for fun if nothing else. Think about it .Besides this whole thing you are posting about is not supposed to be about growing bigger bucks and moving seasons and weapons its about taking more does from areas that need it not a state wide hammer . :angry:
> 
> My group of hunters will see you at the meetings in organized fashion when the are held this will plan reeks of antler worship and selfishness. There are better ways to reduce the doe herd and reward the hunters who do it on the state level.:thumbs_up



*Then you come stammering in with misspelled words, poor grammar, rambling text..........*



Shouldernuke! said:


> New Shariff Whos is that old OBR JOE . Same old Joe :wink:
> 
> Yip so do I elitists and a haveing just a few voices being herd and consided at the state level . We managed the herd just fine . So what do you think is going to happen if you shorten gun days or move it back to even more inclemat weather to the doe herd ?? You are so worried about the buck herd what did the OBR do did it put a 200 inche typical in the books for your silly little horn porn club ??? Let me answer that NO ! Did the OBR put a giant buck in every woods NO . Will moveing gun season back make the hunters who struggle killing big bucks better or more successful NO . It is not the the answer and you know that and nither is the current push to open up guns on the doe herd in the middle of the rut for aweek before they get to take a shot a buck . I am smart enoug h to know that there ill be a huge majority of gun hunters want some answers and they could care less about personal adjendas.They just want to hunt for what they want and if that is one buck that was left faily unmolested by 250,000 lead thowers that are shooting bucks off of the nose of a buck just a few days prior to thier season that is what they will ultimatly get be it now or 5 years from now .
> 
> With age comes wisdom in most cases but in this one it reeks of personal buck hording adjendas .We will see see and yes I have an answer to the big question but it did not fit the adjenda if your leader! One thing is for sure we will both be throw head long in any managment program that is finally established whether you or I like it or not.
> 
> Oh ya if a guy is not killing a mature buck in any year it is not because they are not out ther it is because the hunter is doing something wrong and if a hunter wants to shoot a 1.5 year old 8 pointer so be it it is none of your or mine Bussiness!:angry:



Got one little question............*Who's feeding you text to cut and paste up here?!?!??!* *......LOL!!!!*

Tell Woody/willie we've seen *all* of his tricks..........including the one where he sends text for others to put up on forums.

What a *circus*...........:darkbeer:


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## Rothhar1

Scarlet Dew said:


> *Pretty interesting..............You first type with good grammar, correctly spelled words, well organized text.........*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Then you come stammering in with misspelled words, poor grammar, rambling text..........*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got one little question............*Who's feeding you text to cut and paste up here?!?!??!* *......LOL!!!!*
> 
> Tell Woody/Willie we've seen *all* of his tricks..........including the one where he sends text for others to put up on forums.
> 
> What a *circus*...........:darkbeer:


No one was in my ear or feeding me anything. I was in a super hurry I need no feed from anyone at any time I am a very astute person with a mind of my own. I had to leave and was in double time and really did not care how it was spelled or put together . You have nothing figured out and this is not not your show here or mine so no banning here huh I guess I get to have my own opinion after all and you have to live with it !:angry:

Woody smoody there is no woody here or in my ear , and I do not know any woody other than the toy story doll that my niece has . It is all me all 35 years of hunting here and that is a fact. I do not need led . I am a leader . I fallow no one ever . Some of us have wives that were standing there waiting on us to get off the key board and get things in order for her. Yip I live another life outside of hunting I am quite intelligent and speak for my self . And most of the hunters I run with feel almost the same way I do on this so we will see indeed.

And I am not from southern Indiana where this whole mess is coming from there is more deer and deer hunting in this state than south of Indy Scarlet Dew . I keep up on what is what and who is who in this state when it comes to deer hunting and its changes I actually speak unbroken English as well. You should get out more and head way up north we have a whole different deer herd than you are used to then we would see if your opinion change after just a few seasons up here. 

Just like you as I have learned all to well is to dream things up or even divert everyones attention so so sad !Maybe you would like to try to make up something in this conversation I have not spoken >>

And now for the coup dagras I will now place you on my permanent ignore list as you have zero to offer me but indigestion and a dismal outlook for or deer herd in general. !


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## I like Meat

The DNR is feeling the pressure to kill more Does .....there is a good chance ALL of Porter County may be considered an urban zone, from the Kankakee north to the Big Lake.......I expect to see a early antlerless muzzeloader season in Sept.... Lower cost antlerless tags.....I wish they would count buttons as a buck, though idiots would leave them lay once they figured it wasnt a Doe. The kill numbers on buttons are going down now which is a good thing....There needs to be more spots that will take deer for the needy, I'll pass on Does once I fill my freezer..... I cant always find people who want extras and willing to pay for processing....I dont always have the time to do it myself....


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## Archeroni

If you restrict gun hunting too much you'll be sharing the archery season with A LOT more bowhunters. I kinda like being the only one in the woods for almost 2 months. I don't really want the orange army to be in every other tree during bow season.

You'll also see more reduction "hunts" and higher insurance rates.


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## solohunter

The OBR rules.........:thumbs_up
Solohunter


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## INIDHA

Hello all, I'm OBR Joe!

My real name is Joe Bacon and I am presently President of the Indiana Deer Hunters Association(IDHA). I have been an avid deer hunter since my teenage years and I'm 58 years old as I post this. I was and still advocate the one buck rule(OBR) as does the(IDHA) AND 72% of the most recent deer hunters surveyed by IDNR!

I need to respond to Shouldernuke, you really need to get your facts correct. There is no politics nor money being spent on deer management issues. UNLESS you want to consider the legislative pressure on IDNR to reduce the deer herd in Indiana. Below is a portion of the press release from IDNR.........

"The stakeholders included representatives of the DNR divisions of Fish and Wildlife, and Law Enforcement, Bloomington City Council, Indiana Bow Hunters Association, Indiana Deer Hunter’s Association, Indiana Farm Bureau, Quality Deer Management Association, Indiana Sportsman’s Roundtable, Indiana Wildlife Federation, Indiana Woodland Owner’s Association, The Nature Conservancy, and a sporting goods retailer."

READ stakeholders! The groups represented are not only the IDHA and IBA(Indiana Bow Hunters Association), this was a diverse group of hunting and non hunting participants. We were asked to leave personal agendas aside, we were asked to consult our membership and report to them what was discussed, I DID both! There is ZERO "trophy management" within the management plan. What we have is a strategy to reduce the deer herd in a specific area using the best science and data available. 

Another thread here has Willie posting that 199,900 gun hunters are going to be upset, truth be known.......... the total number is wrong. And, a full 60% of those gun hunters bowhunt also! :thumbs_up 

The real topic should be ......... do you want the Indiana Legislature to set hunting dates and bag limits or............. do you support the IDNR and its qualified biologists! 

I want to be VERY clear about the survey, nothing in it was not supported by IDNR, yet there are parts of it not supported by one or more of the "stakeholders". If you want to throw blame at me or the IDHA "we" can accept it, just want the rational people to know the truth.:wink:

Joe Bacon

President IDHA


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## Rothhar1

INIDHA said:


> Hello all, I'm OBR Joe!
> 
> My real name is Joe Bacon and I am presently President of the Indiana Deer Hunters Association(IDHA). I have been an avid deer hunter since my teenage years and I'm 58 years old as I post this. I was and still advocate the one buck rule(OBR) as does the(IDHA) AND 72% of the most recent deer hunters surveyed by IDNR!
> 
> I need to respond to Shouldernuke, you really need to get your facts correct. There is no politics nor money being spent on deer management issues. UNLESS you want to consider the legislative pressure on IDNR to reduce the deer herd in Indiana. Below is a portion of the press release from IDNR.........
> 
> "The stakeholders included representatives of the DNR divisions of Fish and Wildlife, and Law Enforcement, Bloomington City Council, Indiana Bow Hunters Association, Indiana Deer Hunter’s Association, Indiana Farm Bureau, Quality Deer Management Association, Indiana Sportsman’s Roundtable, Indiana Wildlife Federation, Indiana Woodland Owner’s Association, The Nature Conservancy, and a sporting goods retailer."
> 
> READ stakeholders! The groups represented are not only the IDHA and IBA(Indiana Bow Hunters Association), this was a diverse group of hunting and non hunting participants. We were asked to leave personal agendas aside, we were asked to consult our membership and report to them what was discussed, I DID both! There is ZERO "trophy management" within the management plan. What we have is a strategy to reduce the deer herd in a specific area using the best science and data available.
> 
> Another thread here has Willie posting that 199,900 gun hunters are going to be upset, truth be known.......... the total number is wrong. And, a full 60% of those gun hunters bowhunt also! :thumbs_up
> 
> The real topic should be ......... do you want the Indiana Legislature to set hunting dates and bag limits or............. do you support the IDNR and its qualified biologists!
> 
> I want to be VERY clear about the survey, nothing in it was not supported by IDNR, yet there are parts of it not supported by one or more of the "stakeholders". If you want to throw blame at me or the IDHA "we" can accept it, just want the rational people to know the truth.:wink:
> 
> Joe Bacon
> 
> President IDHA


No no let me clarifier the money should of said the more money would come from new tag sales !! My apologies if I seemed to mean that you or one of the organizations were exchanging or receiving money with or separate from the DNR that was not the intent . What I meant was that as always it seems that tags and money is on the agenda ! See I am big enough to straiten up the meaning of my statement ! Hope that helps here in my intent and meaning. Also do you not think that there should of been some or a few representatives from each deer zones that the state likes to use in the yearly break down of stats to get more ideas and input?? And the legislature has no business in the DNR game management affair es of the state. They are paid public servants that have bigger fish to fry.


Also your Friends scarlet dew and mainbeam may need to be informed that this change is not about rut hunting and trophy buck management as that is very clear in their posts that this is the result of the actions that are about to be taken .I.E. they are selling with the big buck pitch not herd management pitch .Now is that wrong or are the being irrational or are they wrong too??So it indeed in the opening and fallowing posts pushing an ajenda of TBM not doe /deer herd managment

I also think I am being rational when I say why should the whole state including the dismal north central part of the state pay penalties and not have a voice for issues that for the most parts are strictly southern half of the state and the most urban Northeast and north wast corners of the state that has been created by landowners who for the most part do not allow hunting ?:thumbs_up


----------



## INIDHA

Shouldernuke;

I can't respond to what you meant, only what you posted before I replied. :wink: I watch this site on a regular basis but needed to respond as you grossly misrepresented the IDHA and other stakeholders who attended the meetings.

Anyone else who posts on their theory of what the survey means, is strictly speculation on their part.

The group looked at many slides of data, we do see the issues of access as well as herds that inhabit your area. Truth be told the northern half of Indiana is where the deer complaints are coming from. 

We do have the facts straight!


----------



## Rothhar1

INIDHA said:


> Shouldernuke;
> 
> I can't respond to what you meant, only what you posted before I replied. :wink: I watch this site on a regular basis but needed to respond as you grossly misrepresented the IDHA and other stakeholders who attended the meetings.
> 
> Anyone else who posts on their theory of what the survey means, is strictly speculation on their part.
> 
> The group looked at many slides of data, we do see the issues of access as well as herds that inhabit your area. Truth be told the northern half of Indiana is where the deer complaints are coming from.
> 
> We do have the facts straight!


I said north central Indiana that hapens to be the lowest deer take zone in the state with most of the counties in the bottom 10 in harvest of bucks and does . And arguably the lowest deer densities in the entire state. So why all the complaints?? What do they want in tipton ,howard ,grant ,carrol ,and the others no deer at all >>???


----------



## INIDHA

Shouldernuke;

You need to read the survey again.......... any early season antlerless hunt would target those counties with a bonus doe designaion of four(4) or more.

The new strategy is to place pressure on SPECIFIC counties, this will not affect counties you have listed.


----------



## Scarlet Dew

Shouldernuke! said:


> scarlet dew and mainbeam may need to be informed that this change is not about rut hunting and trophy buck management as that is very clear in their posts that this is the result of the actions that are about to be taken .I.E. they are selling with the big buck pitch not herd management pitch


Whao Nelllllie!!! 

This thread is about the survey..............all types of stuff were in that survey.........

**Deer Population Management Opportunities
**Crossbow opportunities
**License Fee Opportunities
**Opportunities for Mature Bucks (shorter gun season/move out of rut)

You're tellin' me and Mainbeam we can't get excited about a portion of the survey that you're not OK with?? You're tellin' me and Mainbeam that because we have typed about opportunities for older bucks that are eluded to in the survey, that we aren't interested also in other parts of the survey that deal with managing the # of deer in the herd????

I thought this thread was about the parts of the survey that if anyone took a liking to, they could talk/type about it ..............or now do we need to run that through you Shouldernuke?? 

Just 'cause some like the idea of Big Bucks in Indiana *DOESN'T* mean they don't care about managing the herd either. *Jeeepers!!!*

Don't even start to "split us hunters up" like that Shouldernuke...........not even CLOSE to the truth!!


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## Scarlet Dew

Again...........here is the link to participate in the Indiana DNR Deer Hunting survey........

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm


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## Rothhar1

INIDHA said:


> Shouldernuke;
> 
> You need to read the survey again.......... any early season antlerless hunt would target those counties with a bonus doe designaion of four(4) or more.
> 
> The new strategy is to place pressure on SPECIFIC counties, this will not affect counties you have listed.


I know and that is what scares me since say Howard with a miserable 400 + harvest with just around under 200 bucks take has a 4 rating .So why ?? There has to be a rub some time in counties like that . Joe the 4 plus is fine but there are a few counties that made that 4 list that have very low kills and very low herd numbers they just have a lot of people that reside in them that simply pay no attention . Is that the fault of the deer or the hunters that try yearly to do their part ?? If this passes I suggest that a few counties with a 4 get re scrutinized before law is set on them.


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## Main Beam

TTT!

I you haven't filled it out be sure and do it TODAY!:wink:

Do your part to control Indiana doe herd and create a management structure that produces more mature bucks. Here is our chance Hoosier Bowhunters!


http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm


----------



## willie

Scarlet Dew said:


> ..........
> Don't even start to "split us hunters up" like that Shouldernuke...........not even CLOSE to the truth!!


*Yeah, right...*




Scarlet Dew said:


> Has this been put up on the Real Tree site yet??? Alot of *bow-hunter* friendly people out there!!


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## Main Beam

*RED ALERT RED ALERT*

I see Willie (aka Woody on other Indiana sites) has posted on this issue for the first time. EVERYONE be prepared to hear his stance supporting the us of crossguns and his objection to OBR! Willie has fought Joe Bacon and the IDHA for a long time now. Just wanted to give everyone some background on him b/c he is about to spew all over this thread.ukey:


----------



## Scarlet Dew

Main Beam said:


> *RED ALERT RED ALERT*
> 
> I see Willie (aka Woody on other Indiana sites) has posted on this issue for the first time. EVERYONE be prepared to hear his stance supporting the us of crossguns and his objection to OBR! Willie has fought Joe Bacon and the IDHA for a long time now. Just wanted to give everyone some background on him b/c he is about to spew all over this thread.ukey:


I am........and others are ready for him....and his old worn out/non heard stances for Indiana that are.............even as _willie_ would say.............."*older than dirt*".


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## Scarlet Dew

Fill out the survey.........here is the link......

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm


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## freezertech

Shorten the gun season and watch tag sales drop like a rock. I'm a pretty avid bowhunter but this is getting ridiculous. Just like the OBR we have a few making decisions the majority don't agree with.


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## goathollow

freezertech said:


> Shorten the gun season and watch tag sales drop like a rock. I'm a pretty avid bowhunter but this is getting ridiculous. Just like the OBR we have a few making decisions the majority don't agree with.


I'm seeing a lot of comments about shortening the season but it appears to me that one of the options is to just push the season back a couple of weeks but not reduce the number of days of gun hunting. I personally think that would be the best option. It allows the guys who don't bow hunt, or are trying to get freezer meat to do their thing but also promotes good herd management but not having the gun season fall right in the middle of the rut. We really do need to kill fewer bucks and more does in our state. A natural buck to do ratio should be near 1-1 and were no where near that now. Would it not be cool to see the same number (or near the same) of bucks as you do does. Seems like the chances of killing a wall hanger goes up for everyone. With more bucks and fewer does we all get to see more buck activity (scrapes and rubs) making the big boys a bit easier to pattern.

The system is not broken in Indiana but it is bent a little. I hope the IDNR gets it right when they make these changes. They took a giant step forward when they put in the OBR; now they have the chance to finish what they started.


----------



## freezertech

INIDHA said:


> Hello all, I'm OBR Joe!
> 
> My real name is Joe Bacon and I am presently President of the Indiana Deer Hunters Association(IDHA). I have been an avid deer hunter since my teenage years and I'm 58 years old as I post this. I was and still advocate the one buck rule(OBR) as does the(IDHA) AND 72% of the most recent deer hunters surveyed by IDNR!
> 
> I need to respond to Shouldernuke, you really need to get your facts correct. There is no politics nor money being spent on deer management issues. UNLESS you want to consider the legislative pressure on IDNR to reduce the deer herd in Indiana. Below is a portion of the press release from IDNR.........
> 
> "The stakeholders included representatives of the DNR divisions of Fish and Wildlife, and Law Enforcement, Bloomington City Council, Indiana Bow Hunters Association, Indiana Deer Hunter’s Association, Indiana Farm Bureau, Quality Deer Management Association, Indiana Sportsman’s Roundtable, Indiana Wildlife Federation, Indiana Woodland Owner’s Association, The Nature Conservancy, and a sporting goods retailer."
> 
> READ stakeholders! The groups represented are not only the IDHA and IBA(Indiana Bow Hunters Association), this was a diverse group of hunting and non hunting participants. We were asked to leave personal agendas aside, we were asked to consult our membership and report to them what was discussed, I DID both! There is ZERO "trophy management" within the management plan. What we have is a strategy to reduce the deer herd in a specific area using the best science and data available.
> 
> Another thread here has Willie posting that 199,900 gun hunters are going to be upset, truth be known.......... the total number is wrong. And, a full 60% of those gun hunters bowhunt also! :thumbs_up
> 
> The real topic should be ......... do you want the Indiana Legislature to set hunting dates and bag limits or............. do you support the IDNR and its qualified biologists!
> 
> I want to be VERY clear about the survey, nothing in it was not supported by IDNR, yet there are parts of it not supported by one or more of the "stakeholders". If you want to throw blame at me or the IDHA "we" can accept it, just want the rational people to know the truth.:wink:
> 
> Joe Bacon
> 
> President IDHA



With all due respect no one and I mean absolutely no one contacted me or asked me my opinion on any of the above changes. I am a avid hunter no matter what tool is being used to get the job done. If it takes the Indiana Legislature to make some sensible changes to manage our herd then so be it. These proposals only serve a minority of hunters and does little to address the concerns of all hunters. This is much like the OBR that has served nothing and I mean absolutely nothing. The bucks aren't any larger and at best two months older. Those two months really made the antlers larger didn't it? There's a trophy behind every tree thanks to the OBR!! Woot Woot! So tell me is it because the OBR didn't perform as promised the reason you want to try something else? I will be sending an email to all my representives and also to the DNR about this nonsense and like I stated above if it takes getting the legislature involved to stop this ridiculous nonsense then so be it. At least the majority will be represented or at least there is hope the majority will be represented rather than a few making rules for the rest of the deer hunters.


----------



## goathollow

freezertech said:


> With all due respect no one and I mean absolutely no one contacted me or asked me my opinion on any of the above changes. I am a avid hunter no matter what tool is being used to get the job done. If it takes the Indiana Legislature to make some sensible changes to manage our herd then so be it. These proposals only serve a minority of hunters and does little to address the concerns of all hunters. This is much like the OBR that has served nothing and I mean absolutely nothing. The bucks aren't any larger and at best two months older. Those two months really made the antlers larger didn't it? There's a trophy behind every tree thanks to the OBR!! Woot Woot! So tell me is it because the OBR didn't perform as promised the reason you want to try something else? I will be sending an email to all my representives and also to the DNR about this nonsense and like I stated above if it takes getting the legislature involved to stop this ridiculous nonsense then so be it. At least the majority will be represented or at least there is hope the majority will be represented rather than a few making rules for the rest of the deer hunters.


Freezertech:

Sorry dude but I completely disagree with everything you just said about the OBR. I am seeing more and bigger bucks than ever before, including back in the heyday when we had more deer than we do now. And, I hunt in Southern Indiana where there were a fair number of bucks to begin with. 

I mean no disrespect but what you are saying is illogical...if you kill additional bucks (ie, pre OBR rules) you cannot have more bucks alive after the season is over for the next season. To have more bucks next year you have to kill fewer bucks this year. 

Maybe where you hunt OBR hasn't done much to improve things but where I hunt it has. I would wager a guess that if that is the case the problem isn't the OBR but some other factor like habitat or the total deer population.

I also think you are making a huge mistake in thinking that the legislature will represent your interests as a hunter more than the folks at the DNR will. If you want to see the minority getting the lions share of the attention then let the politicians make these decisions. They will make them based on who lines the re-election coffers the best and who sends the most lobbiest to the capitol building. They won't give two shakes about what the hunters in the state think. Getting these decisions into the legislatures hands is exactly what the folks who want to see the deer populations drastically lowered are hoping for. You are playing right into their hand. If you truly want to be heard then I suggest you a.)fill out the survey and b.) join one of the several hunting organizations (that have the same interests at heart that you do) that were invited to those meetings.


----------



## Rothhar1

goat hollow said:


> Freezer tech:
> 
> Sorry dude but I completely disagree with everything you just said about the ORB. I am seeing more and bigger bucks than ever before, including back in the heyday when we had more deer than we do now. And, I hunt in Southern Indiana where there were a fair number of bucks to begin with.
> 
> I mean no disrespect but what you are saying is illogical...if you kill additional bucks (IE, Prue ORB rules) you cannot have more bucks alive after the season is over for the next season. To have more bucks next year you have to kill fewer bucks this year.
> 
> Maybe where you hunt ORB hasn't done much to improve things but where I hunt it has. I would wager a guess that if that is the case the problem isn't the ORB but some other factor like habitat or the total deer population.


Without stirring the pot or causing trouble may I ask for an honest answer on a question I have ?? Also this is Indiana there is not really any bad habitat per say!!

How old are you this is a pertinent question .


----------



## goathollow

Shouldernuke! said:


> Without stirring the pot or causing trouble may I ask for an honest answer on a question I have ?? Also this is Indiana there is not really any bad habitat per say!!
> 
> How old are you this is a pertinent question .


I am not sure why my age is pertinent but I will gladly play along. I am 52 years old, been hunting since I was 5 and deer hunting for nearly 30 years. Anything else you would like to know?

Compared to some other states, I suppose you could say that there is no bad habitat in Indiana. But, the habitat in some counties is clearly better than others. My reference to habitat has to do with the capacity of the land to support a robust deer population; that is fewer deer overall means fewer bucks one might see.


----------



## Rothhar1

goathollow said:


> I am not sure why my age is pertinent but I will gladly play along. I am 52 years old, been hunting since I was 5 and deer hunting for nearly 30 years. Anything else you would like to know?
> 
> Compared to some other states, I suppose you could say that there is no bad habitat in Indiana. But, the habitat in some counties is clearly better than others. My reference to habitat has to do with the capacity of the land to support a robust deer population; that is fewer deer overall means fewer bucks one might see.


OK then you remember the 1970s and early 1980s I started deer hunting this season will be 36 years ago. The site of just a couple of deer a year was as good as it could get and the taking of a buck since that was all we were allowed to shoot was a true feat wasn't it [email protected]@!!! Now I for one am in no Way wanting to digress back wards toward that after all the efforts to build this herd up . That said Remember that out from under every does tail comes a button buck that will one day grow god willing into his first antlers . Take down the doe herd drastically how many bucks are we going to have late or shortened season or not . That is right we will recruit less bucks into the herd but instead of shooting them with antlers we will be killing them before they are born .So where is the rub in that ??


----------



## solohunter

All posts aside....even though Willie and Joe have opposing views I cannot think of 2 individuals who are more passionate about deer and deer hunting and both have made sacrifices to better our sport. Personally, I support the OBR and leave the biology and science to those who have got the education and field experience to make those decisions for us laymen. I have a Robert Wegner book that has a picture of a sign that says.."don't shoot does or fawns..", the chapter was dedicated to the early days of "deer management" and how it started. This post may be off topic slightly, but I felt it needed to be said...
Respectfully,
Solohunter


----------



## Hoosier bowman

Thanks for the survey. I passed it on to some friends and to my dad. Hope they take it sooooon. Again, thanks.


----------



## freezertech

goathollow said:


> Freezertech:
> 
> Sorry dude but I completely disagree with everything you just said about the OBR. I am seeing more and bigger bucks than ever before, including back in the heyday when we had more deer than we do now. And, I hunt in Southern Indiana where there were a fair number of bucks to begin with.
> 
> I mean no disrespect but what you are saying is illogical...if you kill additional bucks (ie, pre OBR rules) you cannot have more bucks alive after the season is over for the next season. To have more bucks next year you have to kill fewer bucks this year.
> 
> Maybe where you hunt OBR hasn't done much to improve things but where I hunt it has. I would wager a guess that if that is the case the problem isn't the OBR but some other factor like habitat or the total deer population.
> 
> I also think you are making a huge mistake in thinking that the legislature will represent your interests as a hunter more than the folks at the DNR will. If you want to see the minority getting the lions share of the attention then let the politicians make these decisions. They will make them based on who lines the re-election coffers the best and who sends the most lobbiest to the capitol building. They won't give two shakes about what the hunters in the state think. Getting these decisions into the legislatures hands is exactly what the folks who want to see the deer populations drastically lowered are hoping for. You are playing right into their hand. If you truly want to be heard then I suggest you a.)fill out the survey and b.) join one of the several hunting organizations (that have the same interests at heart that you do) that were invited to those meetings.


My interests aren't being represented now and I don't see how the legislature could do any worse than the DNR. The DNR holds a couple of meetings with a few buddies that head these "organizations" that supposedly represent hunters while the rest of us are out working our arses off and this is the crap you get. It's the good old boy network working for the few once again. These proposals go a long way restricting opportunities at a time we need to be expanding opportunities. Someday everyone will wake up and remember the day when hunting was an opportunity for everyone rich, the working man and and the poor alike. Just keep limiting the opportunities to spend in the field and soon you won't be hunting no matter the tool you choose to hunt with.


----------



## I like Meat

Ive been chasing deer since high school days in the '70's and OBR is the best thing the DNR has done..... I hunt Bow primarily, but pick up the inline for a few days.....Harvest more Does....less Button Bucks and pass on the dink bucks...what the hell is so hard about that....I see more Bucks of all ages than ever before, there are less buttons taken now state wide and more Does taken..... just move the gun season back a week or two and I'm a happy camper.....I'll still kill my 2-4 does and 1 buck each year....that is IF I decide to take the buck.....heck, I pass on 5- 12 decent bucks a year....if one I want comes within range so be it....if not, I'll kill a Doe and chase bucks next season.....It's all about being out there....not the killing.....I'll always kill does for the freezer......a big buck is a bonus....and I have taken well over 100 deer in my life.....:thumbs_up


----------



## Redemption

Timmy has gone big time and is now peddling his antler porn on AT!!!!!!!!

Sorry boys but your little club doesn't speak for us all. You won't be happy until the whole state is leased up by outfitters. My county is already seeing it big time and we don't want to be the "Top Whitetail" State. I could care less how you boys cut your own throats South of Indy but I damn sure will fight any and all anti hunting legislation that you try and push. Which is exactly what limiting hunters in IN with your little schemes is.
OBR, anti-hunting legislation supported by IDHA. :amen:


----------



## goathollow

Redemption said:


> Timmy has gone big time and is now peddling his antler porn on AT!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sorry boys but your little club doesn't speak for us all. You won't be happy until the whole state is leased up by outfitters. My county is already seeing it big time and we don't want to be the "Top Whitetail" State. I could care less how you boys cut your own throats South of Indy but I damn sure will fight any and all anti hunting legislation that you try and push. Which is exactly what limiting hunters in IN with your little schemes is.
> OBR, anti-hunting legislation supported by IDHA. :amen:


Please explain how you stumbled to the conclusion that the pending rule changes are anti hunting.


----------



## goathollow

freezertech said:


> My interests aren't being represented now and I don't see how the legislature could do any worse than the DNR. The DNR holds a couple of meetings with a few buddies that head these "organizations" that supposedly represent hunters while the rest of us are out working our arses off and this is the crap you get. It's the good old boy network working for the few once again. These proposals go a long way restricting opportunities at a time we need to be expanding opportunities. Someday everyone will wake up and remember the day when hunting was an opportunity for everyone rich, the working man and and the poor alike. Just keep limiting the opportunities to spend in the field and soon you won't be hunting no matter the tool you choose to hunt with.


Explain what you mean when you say a.) "while the rest of us are out working our arses off" and b.) these proposals go a long way [toward] restricting opportunities.


----------



## goathollow

Shouldernuke! said:


> OK then you remember the 1970s and early 1980s I started deer hunting this season will be 36 years ago. The site of just a couple of deer a year was as good as it could get and the taking of a buck since that was all we were allowed to shoot was a true feat wasn't it [email protected]@!!! Now I for one am in no Way wanting to digress back wards toward that after all the efforts to build this herd up . That said Remember that out from under every does tail comes a button buck that will one day grow god willing into his first antlers . Take down the doe herd drastically how many bucks are we going to have late or shortened season or not . That is right we will recruit less bucks into the herd but instead of shooting them with antlers we will be killing them before they are born .So where is the rub in that ??


Shoulder nuke: 

You are fear mongering. There is nothing in the proposed rule changes that would put us back to the 70s. It is truly unbecoming to rant unsubstantiated claims thinking that if you do it loud enough and often enough that the uneducated or uninformed will believe what you say. Likewise, the "if you kill a doe you kill three deer" theory is old school and has been proven a falacy by just about every deer biologist in the country. I can offer several good books to read on the subject if you are interested.


----------



## freezertech

goathollow said:


> Explain what you mean when you say a.) "while the rest of us are out working our arses off" and b.) these proposals go a long way [toward] restricting opportunities.


Tell me how this doens't restrict opportunity? Of those "32 days of gun season" most people only get to hunt 6 or 8 times and a couple of those all day with all the holidays and family obligations now. Instead of making more opportunity for people to get out in the field these proposals want to lesson the time available to spend in the field. You tell me how this doesn't represent the wishes of a very small group of antler worshiping stick and string hunters and outfitters who want to make money on our {meaning every single resident of the state of Indiana} resources and restricts opportunity for everyone? If these changes pass soon you won't be able to find a place to hunt unless you want to pay out the arse, everything will be leased up. Check out Illinois, is that what you want for this state? Sorry but the IDHA does not speak for me or the majority of hunters. Again, this is a small group of people and the good old boy network attempting to make changes to suit their wants rather than the needs of all hunters.


----------



## Rothhar1

goathollow said:


> Shoulder nuke:
> 
> You are fear mongering. There is nothing in the proposed rule changes that would put us back to the 70s. It is truly unbecoming to rant unsubstantiated claims thinking that if you do it loud enough and often enough that the uneducated or uninformed will believe what you say. Likewise, the "if you kill a doe you kill three deer" theory is old school and has been proven a falacy by just about every deer biologist in the country. I can offer several good books to read on the subject if you are interested.


I did not say it would put us back to the 1970s I said if you reread my post that I for one do not want to go backwards toward it . And only a slow mind would say if you shot a doe in Indian that you are not killing 3 deer that is not old school it is basic Biology of well fed health whitetail and I can show you just as may publications that say this it is what it is .. You obviously are where you are on this so be it you have you and your friends have a nice day . We will meet on this again I am sure . Your old school stament and just about every biologist agreeing with you on it is the Fallacy and narcisitic . I Do not what Biologist or math classes attended but when a doe is shot in the fall she is either bred or about to bred .And in any healthy deer herd the tendancy toward twind is over 75% in olderr does and those that don't have twins have a single yes afew die every year but come on try a smarter argument .


----------



## Scarlet Dew

Scarlet Dew said:


> Again...........here is the link to fill out..........
> 
> http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm


Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm

***Move our gun season out of the rut
**Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
**Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
**Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt*


----------



## spotshooter300

*...*

:moviecorn


----------



## INIDHA

I want to make a few points here......................

1 No one attending the meetings EVER brought up trophy deer management, antlers, or age structure of bucks improving. We discussed ways to increase antlerless harvest weapons used and license structures and fees.

2. No money in a back pocket, personal agendas, or good ole buddy network was used as reported here.

3. It is false that the IDHA is behind this, I want all of you to read who attended. "The stakeholders included representatives of the DNR divisions of Fish and Wildlife, and Law Enforcement, Bloomington City Council, Indiana Bow Hunters Association, Indiana Deer Hunter’s Association, Indiana Farm Bureau, Quality Deer Management Association, Indiana Sportsman’s Roundtable, Indiana Wildlife Federation, Indiana Woodland Owner’s Association, The Nature Conservancy, and a sporting goods retailer. 

Now someone should inform people how this is the IDHA........

4.This has been forced upon DNR (deer herd reduction)by the legislature, not some organized group. A legislature that has seen little if any opposition from individuals who deer hunt and they have grown tired of the same faces who try to stop their take over of deer management.(Read organized groups) those who try to protect Hoosier Deer hunter interests.

5. "Opportunity", well the person who wants to involve the legislature in this plan will get it if DNR fails. You'll get all you want! Start deer season September 1 end December 31, a deer a day of either sex and all weapons legal during the entire season. Think I'm joking, we stopped this ver bill once already..............

Now have at the mud sling at the Indiana Deer Hunters Association(IDHA), we have more important things on our plate..........turkey hunting:wink:.

Joe Bacon

President IDHA


----------



## Redemption

goathollow said:


> Shoulder nuke:
> 
> You are fear mongering. There is nothing in the proposed rule changes that would put us back to the 70s. It is truly unbecoming to rant unsubstantiated claims thinking that if you do it loud enough and often enough that the uneducated or uninformed will believe what you say. Likewise, the "if you kill a doe you kill three deer" theory is old school and has been proven a falacy by just about every deer biologist in the country. I can offer several good books to read on the subject if you are interested.


You have a lot of room to talk. You and your boys railroaded through the OBR with nothing but fear mongering and non truths. You explained exactly as you say nuke is doing, what you did, that the uneducated and uninformed would believe what you said. You touted a Booner in every woodlot with your self serving scheming and tried to recruit all of the horn porn generation into believing Indiana would be one big Monster Bucks video. 

It was all a lie. You knew it was a lie and the veteran hunters knew it was a lie. Now you are trying to recycle and expand the lie. We don't want it any more. We don't want your anti hunting legislation limiting the outdoor enjoyment of our fellow Hoosier hunters. You don't care about the herd, you only care about your little antler book sales.

No one wants to be in your club either. The progressives need to go just like the ones running the country. :amen:


----------



## INIDHA

Well, I can see you are capable of an intelligent conversation. Ca n you explain how in the original administrative rule process the OBR passed if people were against it? Please don't use previously posted lies. I'll call you out on them. It wasn't a secret meeting, we didn't wear different colored shirts, ect..........

AND after 4 years the IDNR and State Deer Biologist(who didn't support it in the first place) surveyed a RANDOM sampling of hunters. It came back 72% of Indiana RESIDENT hunters supports the OBR.:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

So now that the real truth is out maybe you can focus your hatered in another place.:wink:

As far as membership, you must not have attended the DEER TURKEY&WATERFOWL EXPO, People were standing in line to renew and join:thumbs_up.

I take critisism well and do not shy from a given name, would you like to tell me who I am communicating with?

Joe Bacon

Pres IDHA


----------



## freezertech

INIDHA said:


> I want to make a few points here......................
> 
> 1 No one attending the meetings EVER brought up trophy deer management, antlers, or age structure of bucks improving. We discussed ways to increase antlerless harvest weapons used and license structures and fees.
> 
> 2. No money in a back pocket, personal agendas, or good ole buddy network was used as reported here.
> 
> 3. It is false that the IDHA is behind this, I want all of you to read who attended. "The stakeholders included representatives of the DNR divisions of Fish and Wildlife, and Law Enforcement, Bloomington City Council, Indiana Bow Hunters Association, Indiana Deer Hunter’s Association, Indiana Farm Bureau, Quality Deer Management Association, Indiana Sportsman’s Roundtable, Indiana Wildlife Federation, Indiana Woodland Owner’s Association, The Nature Conservancy, and a sporting goods retailer.
> 
> Now someone should inform people how this is the IDHA........
> 
> 4.This has been forced upon DNR (deer herd reduction)by the legislature, not some organized group. A legislature that has seen little if any opposition from individuals who deer hunt and they have grown tired of the same faces who try to stop their take over of deer management.(Read organized groups) those who try to protect Hoosier Deer hunter interests.
> 
> 5. "Opportunity", well the person who wants to involve the legislature in this plan will get it if DNR fails. You'll get all you want! Start deer season September 1 end December 31, a deer a day of either sex and all weapons legal during the entire season. Think I'm joking, we stopped this ver bill once already..............
> 
> Now have at the mud sling at the Indiana Deer Hunters Association(IDHA), we have more important things on our plate..........turkey hunting:wink:.
> 
> Joe Bacon
> 
> President IDHA


So you all didn't have any closed door meetings with the DNR whatsoever concerning these changes? And just in case you missed it I did say organizations in the plural sense and I didn't single out the IDHA. And as far as the OBR heck I awoke one August morning and picked up a new hunting guide for the upcoming season at the local gas station and got broadsided, much like thousands of other hunters. No body asked me or anybody I know or anyone I've talked to over the last 8 years or so about what we thought or wanted. We had plenty of big bucks and occasionly someone you knew would kill a real booner before the OBR so nothing has really changed other than there are a lot less does. In fact I can count on one hand the number of does I seen in the woods last season. Deer management eh? Just keep killing them does, that should set us back to the 70's soon enough, hunt all year and spend a few hundred on tags just to get a glimpse of a deer. Yep that's management alright. That kinda crap really well works in closed pen operations where you can run a close count and keep your herd balanced. Pretty hard to balance something when you don't even know what to balance. 



> 5. "Opportunity", well the person who wants to involve the legislature in this plan will get it if DNR fails. You'll get all you want! Start deer season September 1 end December 31, a deer a day of either sex and all weapons legal during the entire season. Think I'm joking, we stopped this ver bill once already..............


Why stop it? Deer hunting should be something enjoyable and something your not rushed to do. A man shouldn't have to juggle his family, the holidays and deer season. You shouldn't have to put your family on the back burner around the holidays. There should be plenty of time to enjoy both deer hunting and still be able to keep your family obligations. There wouldn't be anymore deer killed if the season came in September 1 and lasted until December 31st. People's freezers only hold so much and then you have the high costs of tags. Then people would have choices. Today maybe I'll hunt with my bow or maybe I'll take my rifle. The state shouldn't be mandating what tool someone chooses to use on a certain date. If you want to use your bow that day fine, you want to use your pistol, no big deal. You wake up and decide you want to use your muzzle loader then so be it. If you have a license then by all means go use it. I get sick and tired of ridiculous restrictions. You have to use this weapon and you have to go between these dates and btw your stuff has to be this and that blah blah yada blah yada yada yada. Give us a break, the license structure has insured everyone is a adult or is in the immediate vicinity of an adult supervisor or has had hunter education. 

Have you ever hunted in a state that has an extremely long season? I have and it sure is a whole new experience. There isn't all this rush rush oh crap that may be the only buck I see I better shoot it crap. You have time to actually have a life, you can't go this Saturday no big deal there's lots of time. You don't have to put your family off because deer season only lasts a few days. You have time to let the somewhat smaller bucks go by. 

This whole freekin deal of cutting seasons to satisfy a few bow only hunters has me all worked up, can you tell??


----------



## INIDHA

You have missed the whole point! We no longer have the luxury of watching deer go by, the legislature wants them reduced and modern sciense shows overwhelmingly that less days equate to a larger deer harvest than a long season.

I understand that I can't change your mind, but I can influence others.


You have a computer, IDNR lists ALL meetings of the NRC and topics to be covered, ever visit their site? Might make you an informed deer hunter. Maybe you would li8ke to join the Indiana Bowhunters Association, Indiana Deer Hunters Association or The Indiana Chapter of the Quality Deer Management Association. All of those can keep you informed.

You also like to misrepresent monetary cost related to hunting deer, you said you spent a "few hundred" on deer tags. Give us a list of Indiana deer tags that accumulated a"few hundred" last year........


----------



## Redemption

> Joe Bacon posted -
> 
> 1 No one attending the meetings EVER brought up trophy deer management, antlers, or age structure of bucks improving. We discussed ways to increase antlerless harvest weapons used and license structures and fees.


Well lets see.........From the survey itself.......

1.When would you like to see the opening of firearms season?

The first Saturday after November 11th (as it currently exists)

1st Choice 2nd Choice 3rd Choice

The Saturday before Thanksgiving (one week later than currently exists

1st Choice 2nd Choice 3rd Choice


The Saturday after Thanksgiving (two weeks later than currently exists

1st Choice 2nd Choice 3rd Choice 

So a DNR driven by a legislature wanting the herd thinned would take the optimum reduction tool out of the equation at the opportune time to perform said reduction??? :chortle: :chortle:

I don't know who you are trying to kid about this _*NOT*_ being about trophy management.  It's one of the first questions. :chortle:

Give it up, just say it like it is, at least I could respect that.


----------



## freezertech

INIDHA said:


> .... the legislature wants them reduced and modern sciense shows overwhelmingly that less days equate to a larger deer harvest than a long season.
> 
> ..


. 

BS!

That's such BS and you know it's huge giant load of BS but I guess it fits the agenda you wish to push off on all the unsuspecting hunters. What works in other states with three times the number of hunters won't necessarily happen here in this state. Another calculated gamble just like the OBR. The OBR didn't have the affect you all promised so now we need to try something else eh? Ever so slowly working towards the day when all the good private land will be leased up by outfitters and your pushing an agenda that will help this along. Tell me what's going to happen in 5 years and your promised shorter season hasn't had the effect on the herd you and others have promised? What then, we need more hunters so let's make out of state buck tags real cheap and bring in all the people we can from other states?? Better to bring in out of state people than to open the season up for taxpayers and residents of this fine state? This is all BS and you know it.

*edit* and if we can't watch the little ones go by how are they ever supposed to get big and grow some bone? You don't even know what you want you just go with whatever sounds good at the time? This is all such BS, if it isn't about antlers what is it about because it sure isn't about controlling the herd but congrats on convincing the DNR your concerned about "control", even if it's controlling the hunter rather than the herd.


----------



## stinkysbuddy6x5

*survey*

keep up the good work joe, love your hard work.


----------



## Scarlet Dew

INIDHA said:


> and modern sciense shows overwhelmingly that less days equate to a larger deer harvest than a long season.


Yup.............you are "spot on" again Joe!! :thumbs_up

Kinda mimicks the science and logic behind the age old statements of...

"*Less is More*"..............and "*Quality over Quantity*"..........

Modern Human Behavior Science shows that less time creates "_immidiacy/swift behavior/quick/effective/efficient/ accurate action_"..............more time simply leads to "_procrastination/lackadaisical action_" type hunting.


----------



## goathollow

Redemption said:


> You have a lot of room to talk. You and your boys railroaded through the OBR with nothing but fear mongering and non truths. You explained exactly as you say nuke is doing, what you did, that the uneducated and uninformed would believe what you said. You touted a Booner in every woodlot with your self serving scheming and tried to recruit all of the horn porn generation into believing Indiana would be one big Monster Bucks video.
> 
> It was all a lie. You knew it was a lie and the veteran hunters knew it was a lie. Now you are trying to recycle and expand the lie. We don't want it any more. We don't want your anti hunting legislation limiting the outdoor enjoyment of our fellow Hoosier hunters. You don't care about the herd, you only care about your little antler book sales.
> 
> No one wants to be in your club either. The progressives need to go just like the ones running the country. :amen:



Redemption:

Please understand, I have nothing to do with the IBHA or any other of the hunting organizations that have been mentioned in this thread. I'm not even a member of any of those organizations. Currently the only organization that I am part of that lobbies on my behalf is the NRA. (although I do believe I will be joining one or more of the local organizations in the near future) 

I had nothing to do with passing or even promoting the OBR; in fact when it passed I was a bit miffed. However, I now think it was an outstanding idea.


I am not a "horn porn" addict as you so accuse me. I have one buck mounted and hanging on the wall; that happens to be the first buck I ever killed. I get as much enjoyment out of killing a nice doe for the freezer as I do killing a nice buck. I have sat for hours just watching the deer interact with my bow or gun haning on a hook beside me. I believe in managing the deer herd because it creates a healthier deer; better local ecosystems; it takes into consideration the needs of others who have a vested interest (i.e. farmers, motorists) and frankly in my opinion a better overall hunting experience (I won't bore you with why I feel this way; you clearly wouldn't care).

I also respect the research (and the researchers) on deer and herd dynamics that has been done over the last 20 years that requires we relearn just about everything we as hunters were told back in the 70s and 80s. What seems logical may in fact not be reality when it comes to wildlife biology. I am informed and I consider myself fairly well read on this subject. My opinions are not based solely on personal adecdotal information, but also on scientific research. An excellent resource for learning more about deer management is a book by Dr. Grant Woods, Bryan Kinkle and Robert Bennett by the name of "Deer Management 101." Here is a link to where you can learn more about the book http://deermanagement.net/deer-management-books.html. I believe it is also available online at amazon.com. 

I too am a veteran hunter of over 45 years, nearly 30 of which have been spent pursuing whitetail deer. I am not a progressive and I certainly do not believe in big gov't or the present federal administration....and I sure as heck didn't vote for them. The fact that I dislike big govenment is exactly why I want the regulation of deer hunting to reamain with the DNR. I have met and dealt with a couple of the IDNR biologists who are good people (and WAY underpaid IMO) and their hearts are without a doubt in the right place. I believe they have a better idea of what needs to be done than do our state legislators who only listen to the lobbiests and the campaign donors. And, if you pay attention you will quickly realize that our legislators will ruin deer hunting in Indiana given half a chance. I find it interesting and confusing that you clearly hate regulations and yet you are a proponent of having the very people who love writing new laws (the state and federal legislators) take control of deer hunting in Indiana. Your position creates a double-bind and makes me wonder if you just don't understand or if you have some hidden agenda that you haven't shared.

So, if you please, be careful of what you accuse me of because you obviously don't know anything about me.


----------



## I like Meat

The OBR and increasing the number of antlerless tags is two of the best things our DNR has done for the herd...... :thumbs_up


----------



## Crimefighter

Nothing has changed with Redemption, Willie and Shouldernuke way of old school thinking. I can't remember which one it is, but he is still upset with the OBR because he is a lifetime license holder and by god, it's wrong for the state to take away a buck from him because it was part of his lifetime license when he bought it. They just can't take it away. Thats funny.....because they can and they did. Great move in my opinion.

Now they are probably going to take away some of the gun season.....oh my gosh.....what is this world coming too. They coming to realize that some change is a good thing.

And you guys think the OBR is not working......well go talk to someone who would definately see the difference.....a taxidermist. The ones I have talked too strongly believe that the OBR is the biggest reason.

:thumbs_up Keep up the good work IDNR.....we are headed in the right direction and it sounds like we will continue heading that way.


----------



## Scarlet Dew

goathollow said:


> Redemption:
> 
> So, if you please, be careful of what you accuse me of because you obviously don't know anything about me.


goathollow........keep in mind that Remdemption, like Willie have been banned from 2 Indiana Hunting Forums in the not so distant past. Their acidic forum behavior is nothing new..........don't get to worked up over it.........their fingerprint is known.


----------



## Scarlet Dew

Scarlet Dew said:


> Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.
> 
> http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm
> 
> ***Move our gun season out of the rut
> **Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
> **Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
> **Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt*


Again..........here is the link to fill out the Indiana DNR survey.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm


----------



## Redemption

Scarlet Dew said:


> goathollow........keep in mind that Remdemption, like Willie have been banned from 2 Indiana Hunting Forums in the not so distant past. Their acidic forum behavior is nothing new..........don't get to worked up over it.........their fingerprint is known.


That's funny because you were banned from the same one I was and went and started your little yes mens club so you could all slap each other on the back as you scheme about ruining deer season for the common hunter. Your narcissistic personality and ad hominem attacks on anyone that disagrees with you as well as your drama queen posting style proceed you.


----------



## INIDHA

Redemption:

The dates picked for gun season are an attept at making more "opening days" for the gun hunter. Nothing more and nothing less. With a couple weeks break between seasons the deer will settle down into normal patterns. Moving it a week or so later actually helps the hunter, presently the gun hunter is caught right in the middle of the breeding phase. At this time the bucks for the most part are with does and not moving until they need to search out another one. Moving it a week catches bucks when they are again in the chase phase and does are coming out of hiding.

If you check the amount of days suggested you would see the gun seasons have been shortened by a total of 4 days. Now if you are only interested in "horn porn" that will upset you.


----------



## INIDHA

Freezertech:

I really don't know where to begin with your mis information:embara:

You said........ "What works in other states with three times the number of hunters won't necessarily happen here in this state. "

We looked at other states and the numbers of deer harvested are on a PER HUNTER basis. We also looked at land mass, so your arguement does not fly.......

You said.............."Tell me what's going to happen in 5 years and your promised shorter season hasn't had the effect on the herd you and others have promised? 

We go back and make adjustments, simple theory, you try a plan gain data and tweak it AFTER you see a trend. Just like the OBR you hate, it worked and no tweak needed. 72% of Hoosier deer hunters wanted to keep it. You seem to forget or just don't want to reveal that data. AND(note to the uninformed) IDNR sent the survey for OBR to RANDOM Hoosier deer hunters, we couldn't stack the deck as you like to claim.....

You said.............."if it isn't about antlers what is it about because it sure isn't about controlling the herd but congrats on convincing the DNR your concerned about "control", even if it's controlling the hunter rather than the herd. 

I'll never convince all the people but let me make one point that can be validated by everyone who attended the meetings. IDNR had ALREADY come up with a plan, those who attended agreed or disagreed. Your wizzing on the wrong tree and have no idea what happened. I knew from the beginning that the IDHA and I would take some heat from this, but that is OK ..........I don't need alot of friends........just a few good ones.:shade:

I want you Shouldernuke and anyone else who has an interest to participate, here is the time and address for the NRC meeting. I'll be there, will you?

May 18, 2010 
10:00 a.m., EDT (9:00 a.m., CDT), Fort Harrison State Park Inn, the Roosevelt Room, Indianapolis

Preliminary adoption of changes will be that day......


----------



## willie

INIDHA said:


> ........ Just like the OBR you hate, it worked and no tweak needed. 72% of Hoosier deer hunters wanted to keep it. ......



*Not to pick a nit but it was 71%

BUT - the very same people that gave it a 71% also was 54% in support of a 3 year 2 buck trial...*


When asked if they would support a 3-year pilot-return to the former “two-buck-rule,”
27% said they would “strongly support” the proposal, and another 27% said they
“moderately support” it, certainly reflecting confidence in Indiana Department of Natural
Resources to do what’s best for the state’s deer herd and hunters, in light of their
supportive sentiment toward one-buck-rule.

*ALSO...*

Most Indiana deer hunters tended to rate the overall success of Indiana’s deer
management program as “good” (55% statewide). More deer hunters were likely to
evaluate the program as “excellent” (10% statewide) than “poor” (4% statewide). About
one-quarter (26% statewide) characterized the program as “fair.”

*I guess you "move the gun season" folks are the "poor" 4%..*

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/OneBuckRuleSurveyFinalReport.pdf




....and over 50% of those *SAME* folks said that they would like to see a two buck trial ran to compare data.


----------



## willie

Scarlet Dew said:


> goathollow........keep in mind that Remdemption, like Willie have been banned from 2 Indiana Hunting Forums in the not so distant past. Their acidic forum behavior is nothing new..........don't get to worked up over it.........their fingerprint is known.


Which ones are they Timmy..?

Yours? I canceled my account there. You know that.

IndianaSportsman LOL.. Steve said to stay away awhile. I had not broke any rules but he said I was a "lightening rod" for the some of the folks that think in your line of thnking. They basically did not want to hear an opposing view... just like you.

You? He bounced you and did so properly. Did not Recordkeeper on here tell you to go elsewhere?

Try again....


----------



## I like Meat

Redemption is also known to make threats .... aint that right Mods .... :mg:


----------



## freezertech

INIDHA said:


> We go back and make adjustments, simple theory, you try a plan gain data and tweak it AFTER you see a trend. Just like the OBR you hate, it worked and no tweak needed. 72% of Hoosier deer hunters wanted to keep it. You seem to forget or just don't want to reveal that data. AND(note to the uninformed) IDNR sent the survey for OBR to RANDOM Hoosier deer hunters, we couldn't stack the deck as you like to claim.....


If it is such a huge success why are we changing things niw? The average age of checked in deer is a mere 2 months older with the OBR than it was before. You believe this to mean it's working with no tweaks needed? Your sure easy to please. Just think of all the inches of bone those bucks added in those two months, that's a whoppin' huge success!! They must be surveying the same hunters if 72% of hunters voted to keep it because I haven't got to vote on it anytime it's been brought up. I do service work and have spoke with thousands of people over the last 8 years or so and absolutely no one I have talked to is in favor of your OBR. The only thing it's been successful at doing it wiping out most of the does except in a few small pockets around the state, in urban areas and in places like Bloomington and those people sorta asked for the problem they have... atypical liberal anti-gun nature lovers who think if you bury your head in the sand long enough the problem will either go away or magically take care of itself. 





> I want you Shouldernuke and anyone else who has an interest to participate, here is the time and address for the NRC meeting. I'll be there, will you?
> 
> May 18, 2010
> 10:00 a.m., EDT (9:00 a.m., CDT), Fort Harrison State Park Inn, the Roosevelt Room, Indianapolis
> 
> Preliminary adoption of changes will be that day......


Why don't they have these meetings on a Saturday or an evening where a working man, you know the ones that pay taxes, can attend? I guess it's easier to deal with a few retired guys with nothing else to do than a bunch of angry deer hunters??


----------



## freezertech

INIDHA said:


> We looked at other states and the numbers of deer harvested are on a PER HUNTER basis. We also looked at land mass, so your arguement does not fly.......


Which states did you look at? 






> I'll never convince all the people but let me make one point that can be validated by everyone who attended the meetings. IDNR had ALREADY come up with a plan, those who attended agreed or disagreed. Your wizzing on the wrong tree and have no idea what happened.


Your absolutely right, no one has any freekin idea what happened except those that were there. Is there any public record of this meeting? Was there minutes taken? If so where can one find a copy of these minutes? Why hasn't the minutes of these meetings been posted on the DNR site so everyone can be kept abreast of proposed changes? Was this meeting held behind closed doors away from the public and if so why? Why was these proposed changes released to a few before being released to the general public? What's up with that? 



> ..........I don't need alot of friends........just a few good ones.:shade:.


That's exactly the point I made earlier, this is nothing more than the good ole boys network at work once again screwing the Hoosier hunter to benefit the agenda of a few. At least you finally admitted it! Thanks for being honest.


----------



## Redemption

I like Meat said:


> Redemption is also known to make threats .... aint that right Mods .... :mg:


Just to you big boy! :wink:


----------



## INIDHA

Ahhh............ we now know you deerman1, had to bait you to get you exposed. The telluing post is the "two months" age difference. anyone with knowledge knows age classes are done in 6 month classes.

:shade:


----------



## INIDHA

Willie; 

You can twist it or turn the survey any way you like.......... it was 70%+ in favor of keeping the OBR............ is that a correct statement? No wiggle or added comments............is that a correct post?


----------



## Redemption

INIDHA said:


> Willie;
> 
> You can twist it or turn the survey any way you like.......... it was 70%+ in favor of keeping the OBR............ is that a correct statement? No wiggle or added comments............is that a correct post?


...and who got the survey? Hand picked fellows? I know of no one in Fountain county or Warren for that matter who got one. I'll tell you what, wise deer sage. Mail a survey to everyone who bought a license and see what the results are. You will be corrected right now with your 72% lie. 

Since you are so thick with the DNR, mail a new survey to all who purchased a license in '09 with your moving the gun season questions. I'm sure since it is so important, the legislature won't mind the postage or printing costs. You'll get laughed back to Southern Indiana with a blister. :chortle:


----------



## Scarlet Dew

willie said:


> Which ones are they Timmy..?
> 
> Yours? I canceled my account there. You know that.
> 
> Yup.........you were sent an e-mail reminding you of what my forum rules were and those that would not abide by them and just laid in the weeds lurking...........yep, they would be banned for not following forum rules. You thought you were special and could get away with not following forum rules.......once you saw I was going to reach for the "eject button".........you suicidally/cowardly pressed it first. Either way...........you and your antics were *GONE* from my site.
> 
> 
> IndianaSportsman LOL.. Steve said to stay away awhile.
> 
> Then why did it end up as a permanent banning for you on IndianaSportsman (the second site you've been banned on) ???? Please do explain........
> 
> Did not Recordkeeper on here tell you to go elsewhere?
> 
> He asked me to stop blistering your butt here about a year ago..........but did not bann me...........guess he felt bad for you?
> 
> Try again....
> 
> Keep asking me to "try again"............my pleasure to see you have to explain a deeper hole each time.


Answers are in Red Willie............trying to make it as easy on you as possible......:darkbeer:


----------



## Redemption

Out of your 50 members or so dew boi, how many are me? 

Again, you attack the man and not the argument, which is signature for you. You hound Willie incessantly because he disagrees with you.

Why not a license holder survey suggestion? You know the answer..... You are stuck with managing your leases instead of the common hunters opportunities.


----------



## freezertech

INIDHA said:


> Ahhh............ we now know you deerman1, had to bait you to get you exposed. The telluing post is the "two months" age difference. anyone with knowledge knows age classes are done in 6 month classes.
> 
> :shade:


If your talking to me your wrong. I'm not "deerman1". Try again. You still didn't answer the other questions I asked, why is that? Skeered??

And the two months is merely an estimate. There was a study released that stated the actual number was like .13 years or something stupid but whatever it was worked out to about 2 months{to be honest I don't remember the exact number other than it was close to two months}. You know that to be true so instead of debating the facts are we resulting to personal attacks? Does it matter who I am other than I'm a very concerned deer hunter in this great state of Indiana. You profess yourself to the DNR to represent and also to speak for me in matters concerning deer hunting so please answer my questions.


----------



## willie

> Originally Posted by willie
> 
> Which ones are they Timmy..?
> 
> Yours? I canceled my account there. You know that.
> 
> Yup.........you were sent an e-mail reminding you of what my forum rules were (*I never got any email* ) and those that would not abide by them and just laid in the weeds lurking...........yep, they would be banned for not following forum rules. ( *and you re-instated me,right?* )You thought you were special and could get away with not following forum rules.......once you saw I was going to reach for the "eject button".........you suicidally/cowardly pressed it first. Either way...........you and your antics were GONE from my site.
> 
> *I never saw your silly rule about "you can't lurk and read" here. What kind of stupid rule is that.? Most people do more reading than they do posting on any forum. Your site though. Run it in the ground any which way that you want.
> 
> NOOO, I never saw " reach for the "eject button" ". How would I do that? Silly statment. I even sent you a partuing PM saying C'YA.
> 
> Why you even banned poor deerman after his first post cause it did not fit what you and your band of followers believe.*
> 
> 
> IndianaSportsman LOL.. Steve said to stay away awhile.
> 
> Then why did it end up as a permanent banning for you on IndianaSportsman (the second site you've been banned on) ???? Please do explain........
> 
> *No permanent ban at all. I am a memebr there as I type.*
> 
> Did not Recordkeeper on here tell you to go elsewhere?
> 
> He asked me to stop blistering your butt here about a year ago..........but did not bann me...........guess he felt bad for you?
> 
> *No, he told you to go back to your own site. That was a big waring as t you were breaking all kinds fo ruels here.
> 
> Tim,
> 
> You don't debate. You just try and outshout the opposition. Since you are into pyschology maybe you should self analyze yourself. Maybe it goes back to your childhood when you shouted and got your way.*
> 
> Try again....
> 
> Keep asking me to "try again"............my pleasure to see you have to explain a deeper hole each time.
> 
> *Laughing all the way... * :wink:



.............


----------



## Scarlet Dew

Redemption said:


> Out of your 50 members or so dew boi, how many are me?
> 
> You lasted about 30 seconds on my forum.......when you tried to log in again, you lasted even less seconds. No room for those that simply want to watch the world burn in my forum.
> 
> Again, you attack the man and not the argument, which is signature for you. You hound Willie incessantly because he disagrees with you.
> 
> Just factually answering his questions. I never give him helll.....I just tell the truth and he thinks it's hellll.
> 
> Why not a license holder survey suggestion? You know the answer..... You are stuck with managing your leases instead of the common hunters opportunities.
> 
> You know the surveys are valid, which is why you are in here throwing eggs and demonstrating EXACTLY what we need you to demonstrate to those watching.........the type of person and personality that wants to keep Indiana from making progress.
> 
> As far as being stuck with managing my leases.............hmmmmmmm, I don't lease the majority of my land I hunt on, I do own some land, and I do lease one farm on my own here in Indiana. I have found that a *good solid relationship* is better than any lease offer........something that you obvoiusly have no concept of Redemption...........so don't blame me/be angry with me you're stuck with only leasing as you're only way in to hunt.


Your answers are in red for ease of response.........

For those of you watching the antics of Redemption and Willie here..........this is the crowd that wants Indiana to stay in the same rut, creates false rumors, denies good sound science and social norms that our DNR recognizes as helpful, and want to retain their bitterness towards the world as they hopefully draw more of the same into threads like this to quagmire the world around them. And as you still notice.................Redemption and Willie still have not encouraged ANYONE here to fill out the survey ............wonder why that is.

You be the judge............it's not hard to see. :shade:


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## Scarlet Dew

Willie.............

1) If you register for forums and don't read the rules.........and don't follow the rules.........you get banned.........you found my forum as no different...........I even gave you some grace and reinstated you so you could follow the rules.............you STILL didn't follow the rules..........you then had to leave. *Simple as that*.

2) Which of the 3 names did you have to log in under on Indianasportsman to be able to post again? Tell us please............or do you now have a 4th alias for your protection.

3) I don't out-shout anyone............I just put facts that are *LOUD* in the face of those that like to slither away from them............which is quite apparent in your case.


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## Scarlet Dew

*Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.*


http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm

***Move our gun season out of the rut
**Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
**Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
**Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt *


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## willie

Scarlet Dew said:


> Your answers are in red for ease of response.........
> 
> For those of you watching the antics of Redemption and Willie here..........this is the crowd that wants Indiana to stay in the same rut, creates false rumors, denies good sound science and social norms that our DNR recognizes as helpful, and want to retain their bitterness towards the world as they hopefully draw more of the same into threads like this to quagmire the world around them.
> 
> You be the judge............it's not hard to see. :shade:


No it is not "hard to see" that there are more of us than just the two that are trying to stop the crazy hornographic quest for a few more inches of bone at the expense of the hutning by all deer hunters in Indiana.

*IF* any of what you want goes through I'll tell you that there will be an uprisisng of the average Joe Deer Hunters in this state like they have never seen before..


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## willie

Scarlet Dew said:


> Willie.............
> 
> 1) If you register for forums and don't read the rules.........and don't follow the rules.........you get banned.........you found my forum as no different...........I even gave you some grace and reinstated you so you could follow the rules.............you STILL didn't follow the rules..........you then had to leave. *Simple as that*.
> 
> *I pulled the plug, not you.*
> 
> *BTW - You pointed remark at me there was an personal attack on me. Of course evreyone has to follow the rules there, din't they? Maybe except for you..*
> 
> 2) Which of the 3 names did you have to log in under on Indianasportsman to be able to post again? Tell us please............or do you now have a 4th alias for your protection.
> 
> *Doesn't matter. Steve knows I am there.*
> 
> 3) I don't out-shout anyone............I just put facts that are *LOUD* in the face of those that like to slither away from them............which is quite apparent in your case.
> 
> *"Facts"? Don't make me laugh.
> 
> You resort to half truths (at best) and then when cornered you start with the huge letters in bold and colored. That's "shouting".
> 
> And you are sill "recruiting" bowhunters to vote against the gun hunters here. oor.. The end justifies the means for you, doesn't it? Poor, very poor....*



...


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## Scarlet Dew

willie said:


> *IF* any of what you want goes through I'll tell you that there will be an uprisisng of the average Joe Deer Hunters in this state like they have never seen before..


Yup............*same threat *we heard about the One Buck Rule (OBR) that the majority of Indiana residents passed 8 years ago...........while you stood *SCREAMING/THREATENING *in the corner........

...........we know what your "uprisings" do.........we know what your "uprisings" consists of.................and we know that the results of your "*negative militia*" gets trampled on *EVERYWHERE* in this state since our IDNR simply will not see you and your "_army of anger_" as a way to set season structure and good hunting opportunity in this great state.

We are about to put another chapter in our good hunting regulations book..........and you are about to write another chapter in your book of "_why people don't take Willie seriously anymore_"......


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## Scarlet Dew

*Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.*


http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm

***Move our gun season out of the rut
**Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
**Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
**Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt *


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## Redemption

Timmy, you make me laugh. But, I'm no criminal you are trying to bully into submission. You like to use that word progress don't you? Progress as in progressive. I see you have stopped calling yourself progressive since the election. I wonder why? Maybe we can discuss this on your site since I have at least 2 accounts there that I can remember.

There may be some that think changing seasons would be good for the herd but you aren't one of them. You think changing the seasons and limiting the common hunter is good for you. That's all it is with you, what's the best for Timmy to put a deer on the wall.

You aren't going to shout us down this time. See you on your site. :wave:


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## Main Beam

Crimefighter said:


> Nothing has changed with Redemption, Willie and Shouldernuke way of old school thinking. I can't remember which one it is, but he is still upset with the OBR because he is a lifetime license holder and by god, it's wrong for the state to take away a buck from him because it was part of his lifetime license when he bought it. They just can't take it away. Thats funny.....because they can and they did. Great move in my opinion.
> 
> Now they are probably going to take away some of the gun season.....oh my gosh.....what is this world coming too. They coming to realize that some change is a good thing.
> 
> And you guys think the OBR is not working......well go talk to someone who would definately see the difference.....a taxidermist. The ones I have talked too strongly believe that the OBR is the biggest reason.
> 
> :thumbs_up Keep up the good work IDNR.....we are headed in the right direction and it sounds like we will continue heading that way.



BINGO!!!!!!:thumbs_up


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## La Wildman

Scarlet Dew said:


> *Nobody* needs 32 days of guns season to kill a buck............





You have never hunted in the SWAMPS of louisiana have you???????


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## willie

> Originally Posted by Scarlet Dew
> Nobody needs 32 days of guns season to kill a buck............





La Wildman said:


> You have never hunted in the SWAMPS of louisiana have you???????



We don't "need" 92 archery days to kill a buck either do we?

Anything to limit opportunity of other hunters to grow another inch of bone.


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## Scarlet Dew

Redemption said:


> Timmy, you make me laugh. But, I'm no criminal you are trying to bully into submission. You like to use that word progress don't you? Progress as in progressive. I see you have stopped calling yourself progressive since the election. I wonder why? Maybe we can discuss this on your site since I have at least 2 accounts there that I can remember.
> 
> Please copy and past where I said I am a "progressive". Stick to the topic Redemption........wouldn't want others to think you try to "side-track" instead of taking issues head on.
> 
> There may be some that think changing seasons would be good for the herd but you aren't one of them. You think changing the seasons and limiting the common hunter is good for you. That's all it is with you, what's the best for Timmy to put a deer on the wall.
> 
> The DNR has asked all of us to fill out the survey.......not just "Timmy". Thought you would have picked up on that by now. Hunter input to our IDNR is a good thing.........why would you cast it as "evil" and only for those with some "evil agenda".
> 
> 
> You aren't going to shout us down this time. See you on your site. :wave:
> 
> My mods and I are ready for your antics on my site should you rear your negative head. You know the drill well........


Answers are in red for your comfortable reading.........


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## Scarlet Dew

willie said:


> We don't "need" 92 archery days to kill a buck either do we


Wow............Looks like I need a thread here on Archery Talk to keep this comment in full view of the Archery Public. 

You want Crossbows considered archery............you want full inclusion of crossbows into archery season...........and now you want to suggest you would be willing to cut back archery season.

Who..............in *theeee* world..............................do you think you are. 

Look for an incoming thread here on Archery Talk for you to defend your quote above........:darkbeer:


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## Redemption

Scarlet Dew said:


> Answers are in red for your comfortable reading.........


From the master of the Red Herring himself. :chortle:

I actually am starting to think that you believe yourself. :chortle:

Oh yeah, does "negative" translate into- I don't agree with you and your common deer hunter destroying schemes? :noidea:
I thought so.


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## freezertech

Wonder what happened to INIDHA... either he can't answer my questions or maybe to skeered to answer my questions???


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## Scarlet Dew

freezertech said:


> Wonder what happened to INIDHA... either he can't answer my questions or maybe to skeered to answer my questions???


Or............_isn't worth answering your questions_......

.........don't forget that option.


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## Crimefighter

freezertech said:


> Wonder what happened to INIDHA... either he can't answer my questions or maybe to skeered to answer my questions???


OR....maybe you just don't get it.

He's been plenty clear enough.

You boys need to get over it. Indiana is headed in another direction from where you old schoolers want to go, which turns out to be toward a better overall herd. 

You stick with the minority.....29%
I'll stick with the majority.......71% :darkbeer:


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## 46168

*Wow....*

Wow how do these States Do it....:darkbeer:


Here are the real facts. If you go to their dnr websites you can find a listing of all the seasons. I did not include the youth seasons in these dates.

Wisconsin 24-42 days of firearms hunting.

Illinois 17 day of firearms hunting.

Iowa 60 days of firearms hunting.

Ohio 14 days of firearms hunting.

Minnesota 40 days of firearms hunting.

Kansas 42 days of firearms hunting.

Texas 78 days of firearms hunting.

Missouri 30 days of firearms hunting.

Michigan 48 days of firearms season

Indiana 32 days of firearms hunting. :wav:


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## 46168

*Wow more info....*

I have collected the number of firearms days for different states. This list is the greatest number of days which may vary by zone. It also includes antlerless and resident only seasons. According to my newly acquired information residents and antlerless only hunters do not trespass or commit other game violations so it is not fair to compare them to Indiana but I will do so anyway......:darkbeer:

Alabama: 60

Connecticut: 61

Delaware: 55

Florida: 81

Georgia: 95

Idaho: 53

Louisiana: 86

Maine: 40

Maryland: 41

Massachusetts: 31

Mississippi: 70

Montana: 77

Nebraska: 48

New Hampshire: 38

New Jersey: 110

New York: 58

North Carolina: 87

North Dakota: 34

Oklahoma: 31

Pennsylvania: 42

Rhode Island: 44

South Carolina: 93

South Dakota: 85 

Tennessee: 43 

Vermont: 25

Virginia: 57

West Virginia: 29 

:cheers:


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## willie

Scarlet Dew said:


> Wow............Looks like I need a thread here on Archery Talk to keep this comment in full view of the Archery Public.
> 
> You want Crossbows considered archery............you want full inclusion of crossbows into archery season...........and now you want to suggest you would be willing to cut back archery season.
> 
> Who..............in *theeee* world..............................do you think you are.
> 
> Look for an incoming thread here on Archery Talk for you to defend your quote above........:darkbeer:




*Blew right up in your face didn't it?*

The folks on here are not dumb. They saw through your BS right away.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1203628


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## willie

Good information 46168


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## Scarlet Dew

willie said:


> *Blew right up in your face didn't it?*
> 
> The folks on here are not dumb. They saw through your BS right away.


*Nope*................did exactly as I wanted it to. Got you to clarify your position with your *attacking* sarcasm statements that didn't make sense............you didn't like the question..........you didn't like explaining your poorly placed wording being a representative for crossbows..........

...........and you REALLY don't like the thought of having your sarcasm questioned over and over again............

..........but I'll keep you in check with my simple questions should your "attacking/confusing sarcasm" rise up again.

You'll appreciated it in the end............hopefully. 

Reminds me of the days when you could go to particular sites and you would believe from ALL of the posts of anti-OBR that the OBR didn't have a chance...........but the people that DIDN'T post a whole lot were the ones that somehow were the 70%+ majority that was heard......and 8 years later with an OBR in place :shade:

I know the odds I'm up against.................and I know who's watching your attacking sarcasm...............and I know how that helps a certain cause in the end.

Games are over Clarence.........you're out in the sunlight now............door is locked behind you..............scramble for the "darkness" all you want.............you will continue to be questioned over and over if that's your choice.

You'll determine your own comfort level........


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## Scarlet Dew

*Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.*


http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm

***Move our gun season out of the rut
**Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
**Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
**Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt *


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## Scarlet Dew

Redemption said:


> God!!!!
> You have made yourself look like a complete self serving, dishonest, charlatan, which you are.


Complete self serving dishonest charlatans don't keep/hide links that the IDNR puts up for fellow hunters to give them feedback on.

Careful what you call *yourself* Redemption.........

Try something different and good for hunters today Redemption.........encourage someone to do something good for hunting.

Alot of us are.............the results are tremendous. :darkbeer:


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## willie

Yes, it blew up in your face.

The title of the thread was a lie. You knew it was a lie and posted it anyway.

You've been outted Tim...


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## Scarlet Dew

willie said:


> Yes, it blew up in your face.
> 
> The title of the thread was a lie. You knew it was a lie and posted it anyway.
> 
> You've been outted Tim...


The content of the thread was a question............one you didn't like............so be it.

Thread is gone............we'll see if you use sarcasm like that again..........because it will be questioned again out in the open.............


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## 46168

*Agency declares open season on whitetail does*

Good to see some thought put in to a antlerless season....No season is "shorten or moved"...:darkbeer:...Deer will die!!!!!

http://www.journalstar.com/news/local/article_ae427c3e-33a4-11df-b867-001cc4c03286.html

:focus:


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## willie

46168 said:


> Good to see some thought put in to a antlerless season....No season is "shorten or moved"...:darkbeer:...Deer will die!!!!!
> 
> http://www.journalstar.com/news/local/article_ae427c3e-33a4-11df-b867-001cc4c03286.html
> 
> :focus:




Looks like they have all their ducks...er...deer in a row.

But, any "antlerless season" will kill a bunch of button bucks too..



.


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## freezertech

Scarlet Dew said:


> Or............_isn't worth answering your questions_......
> 
> .........don't forget that option.



Everyone has a right to know how the DNR arrived at their conclusions. I think their is some questionable things going on behind closed doors, perhaps even illegal things and I think that's why he refuses to answer. He knows he could be prosecuted for some of the things that have gone on if it's ever made public and that's why he avoids the questions.


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## Scarlet Dew

freezertech said:


> Everyone has a right to know how the DNR arrived at their conclusions. I think their is some questionable things going on behind closed doors, perhaps even illegal things and I think that's why he refuses to answer. He knows he could be prosecuted for some of the things that have gone on if it's ever made public and that's why he avoids the questions.


I need to keep track of this quote...........thank you.


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## willie

Scarlet Dew said:


> The content of the thread was a question............one you didn't like............so be it.
> 
> Thread is gone............we'll see if you use sarcasm like that again..........because it will be questioned again out in the open.............



The thread is gone because the mods and the administrator saw it for what it was - a personal attack thread.

You knew that you were posting a lie about me and you posted it anyway. What does that make you Tim? Do a little self psychoanalyzing and ask yourself why would anyone post a known lie about another person. Even you best buds on here saw fit to stir clear of it and not back you up. What does that tell you Tim?

Did anyone support you in that thread at all? Still you claim that you were right… now that is real weird. Do a little self psychoanalyzing on that one too..



> we'll see if you use sarcasm like that again..........


*So, tell me Tim.. does it take you 92 days to kill a buck in the archery season?*




.


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## Scarlet Dew

willie said:


> *So, tell me Tim.. does it take you 92 days to kill a buck in the archery season?*
> 
> .


It might take *106* in the near future..........:wink::wink:


----------



## Scarlet Dew

*Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.*


http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm

***Move our gun season out of the rut
**Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
**Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
**Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt *


LAST DAY TO FILL IN THE SURVEY!!!

Was at a rally/meeting we had up here in Northern Indiana about this survey in the past few days. The momentum behind our IDNR for possible changes is *TREMENDOUS*. The hard work that has been done over the last year with our NRC comments, submitted proposals, e-mails and phone calls has worked..........A new Era in Indiana is upon us.


----------



## spotshooter300

*...*

I agree all the hunters who have purchased tags and lifetime license holders should be included in all mailings for there opinions on obr and other hunting regulations now been imposed.
I started a thread on another site a few years ago about the obr and immediately was told to not stir problems,I was just curious an was hammered right off the bat.
I like the regulations the way they were prior to the obr maybe we need to get some siganatures of those who agree,I do think the deer belong to all the people of the state of Indiana an we all should be heard!


----------



## Rothhar1

INIDHA said:


> Ahhh............ we now know you deerman1, had to bait you to get you exposed. The telluing post is the "two months" age difference. anyone with knowledge knows age classes are done in 6 month classes.
> 
> :shade:


Yip u are real Sherlock homeboy !!!ukey: 

Here for those who want a non biased veiw of what was killed in India this year and the past several and you can go to every years breakdown by weapon ,season ,and age /sex of deer and draw your own conclusions instead of listening to anyone who wants to post his opinion here let the facts speak for them selves .

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-2009_Deer_Season_Summary.pdf


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## Rothhar1

Scarlet Dew said:


> I need to keep track of this quote...........thank you.


You know you are a INTERNET bully and I think very little of you as a person .You misrepresent and openly falsely accuse others of exactly what you are doing here and your pitiful web site . And guess what AT is watching you is the general membership here is smart boy .You are on the verge of a major TIME out on here as are a few of your other minions .

You are labeled all over the country now with a few others here by your own posts and words on this and other sites as an anti hunter . Just open your eyes you and others want to limit opportunity from supposedly within our own ranks for more bone on a bucks deers head .And guess what the buck deer in this state are as big a problem in this state as the doe herd is they eat crops ,tear up privet property and cause as many if not more car accidents with their annual mating ritual than the doe herd does. You and your pals are small small fish indeed youngster.


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## Rothhar1

Redemption said:


> Nobody questioned his sarcasm but you and you knew the answer before you made an ass out of yourself with your stupid thread. You tried to make a scene and got abused instead. :chortle:
> I asked them to do something about your stupidity and they did. You got it handed to you with sauce and look more like what everyone knows you are anyway. A big baby that attacks the man instead of the argument. Stick around Timmy, you are making yourself look worse and worse by the day and I find it hilarious. :chortle:


Yip dimpy he is a real prize . I bet he will end up famous one day!!

Not LOL :shade:

I get the feeling that after a few years and this stuff continues at the state level there will be some new shariffs in town at the state meetings instead of the same ol same ol southern Indiana good ol boys clubs . It is all about to get very intresting indeed I would say on a political level .ukey:


----------



## Rothhar1

Crimefighter said:


> Nothing has changed with Redemption, Willie and Shouldernuke way of old school thinking. I can't remember which one it is, but he is still upset with the OBR because he is a lifetime license holder and by god, it's wrong for the state to take away a buck from him because it was part of his lifetime license when he bought it. They just can't take it away. Thats funny.....because they can and they did. Great move in my opinion.
> 
> Now they are probably going to take away some of the gun season.....oh my gosh.....what is this world coming too. They coming to realize that some change is a good thing.
> 
> And you guys think the OBR is not working......well go talk to someone who would definitely see the difference.....a taxidermist. The ones I have talked too strongly believe that the OBR is the biggest reason.
> 
> :thumbs_up Keep up the good work IDNR.....we are headed in the right direction and it sounds like we will continue heading that way.


You are right in one respect that is you do not remember much . I am pro ,hunting ,pro opportunity ,pro weapons ,and pro freedom of choice ,thought,and Speech. 

You got an uneducated opinion of some of use that is fine . But why you spending so much time in taxidermy shops for with only a OBR . And please show us all the Booners you have taken over the last 8 years of OBR if you will .Oh yes by the way is there a giant old buck hiding in every patch of timber you hunt now waiting on you to kill him as you would leave us all to believe??? No plain and simply no there is not . So what is so great about the OBR and what will be so great about all the new things that they have on tap since nothing they have have done up to date has stopped herd growth and caused a giant buck to spring up behind every other tree!! ?? The other stuff about money LTL and what you get I am not sure what you are talking about but I think if a person pays for something specific they should get that thing without takeaways no matter what it is . This would be like putting balanced tires on you vehicle that are supposed to last a lifetime and then after about 10 or 20 years they come and take the balancing weights off because they rethought their plan. Not good :sad:


----------



## dkoutdoors

spotshooter300 said:


> I agree all the hunters who have purchased tags and lifetime license holders should be included in all mailings for there opinions on obr and other hunting regulations now been imposed.
> I started a thread on another site a few years ago about the obr and immediately was told to not stir problems,I was just curious an was hammered right off the bat.
> I like the regulations the way they were prior to the obr maybe we need to get some siganatures of those who agree,I do think the deer belong to all the people of the state of Indiana an we all should be heard!


I agree 100%


----------



## willie

Tim,

You can run, but you can't hide...

One more time...

Why did you posts a *LIE* about me when you knew it was a *LIE?*


----------



## Rothhar1

willie said:


> Tim,
> 
> You can run, but you can't hide...
> 
> One more time...
> 
> Why did you posts a *LIE* about me when you knew it was a *LIE?*


Well he knows his lip service and name calling as well as innuendo is about to get him permanently banned an served on here is why he is hiding,:shade:


----------

