# FOBs and 3-D shooting



## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

I love FOB's

I just got back from the British Columbia provincial 3-D championship and placed first. I'm proud to say that part of the reason was i was shooting FOB's. After four rounds I beat second place by 91 points. I can't tell you how much FOB's have aided in my shooting, and how they have made my groups so small that at 60 yards I'm forced to shoot a face target, to keep from damaging arrows. 

Proud Starrflight shooter:wav:


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Nice pics. Congrats.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Congrats on the win...amazing you can shoot that long of a draw so well..........


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## CntrlIaHunter (Feb 11, 2006)

NYBowhunter911 said:


> Congrats on the win...amazing you can shoot that long of a draw so well..........


i thought the same thing but if it works.......

congrats on the shoot! it does feel nice.:thumbs_up


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

Congrats on the shoot! 

About how many FOBs did you go through? Not that it matters with a gold medal.

Good looking shirt too! Ha!


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## cactus kid (Feb 13, 2006)

dang!!!! you have a talent!


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## uscg4good (Jan 27, 2007)

talent for sure with a draw length like that. wow. good job. im trying to find your anchor but am having trouble.


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## disturbed13 (Aug 16, 2005)

way to shoot
keep it up
now the next thing is to defend the title


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*fobs*

i admit my draw length is a lil bit long, but i use a fob like its a kisser button.
next year it will be harder to keep my title, because i will be moved up an age catagory, so ill b the young guy shootin against 18 year old guys. by the way Mr.Morris, i only wrecked one fob the whole weekend, i no i shouldn't be shooting groups, especially at 20 yrds, and i was practicing at the range, and wrecked one, other then that, they with stood, arrows going threw them.


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## MoNofletch (Jul 28, 2003)

Great shooting! The word will get out on how good the FOB's really areand Paul will hate us for all the work he will have to do to keep up!! :wink:

Congrats on your win!!!


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## SilentSniper (Sep 1, 2005)

Congrats on the win. Where did you get that shirt? I need one! :wink:


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## polkcavediver (Apr 8, 2007)

Isn't the FOB a big target for other archers if you shoot first?


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## Phoenix34 (Jan 18, 2005)

Nice shooting! Congrats on the first place finish!


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## disturbed13 (Aug 16, 2005)

SilentSniper said:


> Congrats on the win. Where did you get that shirt? I need one! :wink:


that is exactly what i was thinking



polkcavediver said:


> Isn't the FOB a big target for other archers if you shoot first?


somewhat
if they are good enough to it 
they will probably go in between the airfoil and the shaft
but i wouldnt be worried


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*fobs as targets*

thanks for all the congrats' and stuff, fobs can be a larger target, but only if you let it be. for practice i use bright orange fobs, (i shot out our target, so i get pass thoughs often and must find the fob) but when im in competition i use black fobs, which will disipear from sight on 90% of animals, im gonna go shoot my bow right now, ill set up the deer target and shoot some black fobs vs orange into it. ill send a photo later.


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## RyanH (Sep 27, 2004)

Very cool! Congrats!


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Congrats on the win, you should do even better when shooting a bow with your correct drawlength.


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*fobs in targets*

here is a picture of two black fobs and 1 florencent orange fob. This photo was taken at about 10 feet away from the target. when shooting at 30 yrds or more, into a dark target, with a black fob, i need binos so i can see where im hitting.


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## Rattler (Dec 19, 2006)

Sweet deal! I have been itching to get into the 3-D. Didn't you love the crazy looks you got there!


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## onmedic (May 23, 2004)

i'm also curious to know how many you went through on the 3D course. And i'm also curious to know where you got that shirt?
great shooting, don't worry about your DL, you look like you still have some growing to do, if you shoot like that and have fun doing it, then your DL is perfect.
enjoy the win.
Recent fob owner (Bryan)


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*the looks*

o ya, i loved all the looks, its really quite funny. when i was practicing i would shoot different distances, everyone else stuck to the same, and everytime about 2-3 people would look at me funny, and 1 would ask me about them. then a group of guy were watching me, and one said hows it going to another, and the other said, im watching this kid shoot these fob things, then i broke the only fob i broke that weekend:sad:

:secret: if you do get into 3-d, and you're afraid of your fobs getting hit, and or, being a big target when a good shot, then get some dark ones from Starrflight


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

onmedic said:


> i'm also curious to know how many you went through on the 3D course. And i'm also curious to know where you got that shirt?
> great shooting, don't worry about your DL, you look like you still have some growing to do, if you shoot like that and have fun doing it, then your DL is perfect.
> enjoy the win.
> Recent fob owner (Bryan)


Ditto on DL! When I was your age a grew 4 inches in one year! From the fathers side of the equation, I can see the advantages of having a bow to grow into $$$$ Ha!

I shot Redding a fews years back. On my two day's of fun I only broke 2 FOBs. My friend broke one. I think for the most part it just seems like you would be going through dozens of FOBs on a shoot. But for the folks who use them, I rarely here of more than a few getting broke. But I can sure understand the concern!

OK....Soon we will have the cool FOB shirts available to buy. We use 100% made in USA high quality shirts and transfers. If the demand is there we will offer them sooner than later! PM me so I can get a feel for the interest in the shirts. 

Regards,


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## BowTech Dave (Feb 27, 2003)

Nice shooting Bigram! Congrats on the win! I have shot the FOBs in tournaments and it is kinda cool when people see you walking around with nothihg but a nock in the back of your arrow and then pull out a Fob and pop it on! 

Congrats and best of luck when you move up!

Dave


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## Guidry (Apr 13, 2007)

*Fob's and 3-D shooting*

Congratulation on your win.
Would love to have one or more of the shirts thats for sure. Been shooting them for a few months now and get lots of looks and questions on how do they work when I am at he shop shooting. Point to the wall and say they fly great (robin hood on the wall). Thanks Paul


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## teambringit1 (Oct 28, 2005)

congrats a lot on your win...shoot em straight...


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*thanks*

thanks again for all the congrats on the shoot


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

Congradulations on the win. I thought group shooting FOBs would be a real problem, but I have only broke one so far. I have more trouble loosing nocks. I have more trouble with the 2nd arrow hitting the first and the 2nd arrow's FOB being pushed off. I have always found the FOB, but unusally the nock is gone.


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## lvshoot'n (Jan 5, 2007)

*more and more users*

Great Job Bigram,

I have found that damage to the FOB's is minimal from standard fletchings and using the darker colors does make them hard to see in the targets.

Damage to the FOB's comes from me shooting the same spots.............I am now only shooting the same spot @ 50 yards.........shoot'n the same spot keeps moving further back each week.


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

lol, i to have the same problem with my nocks often being lost, but as long as i can find the fob im happy:tongue:. ure luck must be alot better then mine, becuase 50% of the time if im grouping, i wreck the fob or the arrow

same here on the spots, i remember when i shot QP i couldnt even group pie plate at 60 yrds, now that i am shooting the fobs, i can get an easy 4 inch group with 4 arrows


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## lvshoot'n (Jan 5, 2007)

*Luck has nothing to do with it*



bigram said:


> lol, i to have the same problem with my nocks often being lost, but as long as i can find the fob im happy:tongue:. ure luck must be alot better then mine, becuase 50% of the time if im grouping, i wreck the fob or the arrow
> 
> same here on the spots, i remember when i shot QP i couldnt even group pie plate at 60 yrds, now that i am shooting the fobs, i can get an easy 4 inch group with 4 arrows


Your just a better shooter than I am.................keep up the good work!


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

cool 

might have to try these things out to see how they work for broadheads

do you tune your arrows the same way that you would using regular fletching?


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

bigram said:


> lol, i to have the same problem with my nocks often being lost, but as long as i can find the fob im happy:tongue:. ure luck must be alot better then mine, becuase 50% of the time if im grouping, i wreck the fob or the arrow
> 
> same here on the spots, i remember when i shot QP i couldnt even group pie plate at 60 yrds, now that i am shooting the fobs, i can get an easy 4 inch group with 4 arrows



Hmmmm.... I tried to make the nock fit as tight as possible. ...I think you should find that the nock fit on the black ones you have are not as tight as the orange ones??

We recently modified the core pins to increase nock fit. So far for me, I would say out of 50 pass throughs, I get one or two nocks that pops off.

My guess is that you guys may have some of the FOBs that have a looser nock fit. All of the current production FOBs have very tight nock fit.

Bigram...When you get a chance, see if you notice a tighter nock fit with the standard FOBs your dad has.

Thanks!!


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

onmedic said:


> i'm also curious to know how many you went through on the 3D course. And i'm also curious to know where you got that shirt?
> great shooting, don't worry about your DL, you look like you still have some growing to do, if you shoot like that and have fun doing it, then your DL is perfect.
> enjoy the win.
> Recent fob owner (Bryan)


Ditto what he ^^ said....if ti works for you, and you beat the nearest competitor by 91 points - there's NOTHING wrong with DL. I KNOW my DL is about half inch short than I prefer to shoot, but then it's just not comfy for me....I run a back tension release, anchoring on back of jawbone and under ear with a big ol mittfull of release. The odd cynic goes off on DL to me also, they shut up when ya beat 'em. Walk tall, shoot long sticks - with FOB's of course, whoop the pants off everyone, enjoy the win!!

PS: Paul - FOB's don't Robin Hood (HAHA FOBIN-HOOD?) worth beans - they stop the intruding arrow pretty much dead if you're shooting bulgies


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

hay, thx lvshootin, i might be a better shot then you on a target, but i would bet you money, that when a 380 class bull elk walks within archery range, youll be the one that hits him on the first shot:wink:

francis, i would strongly recomend trying fobs, if i had to chose between fobs and never breathing again, i would have to hold my breath.:tongue:. when people ask me and/or my dad how tuning is with fobs, we say, "what tuning", we shoot G5 montecs and i have found no change in the flight when i go from field point, to broadheads. 

ya, you are right Mr.Morris, they are tighter on the orange ones then the blacks, i havent lost one yet on the orange Fobs, but have lost a few on the blacks, thanks again for Fobs:darkbeer:

x ring, good shootin!! i have only got one robin hood before, but now that u thought of fobin hoods, i might have to start shootin groups again so i can say i got a fobbin hood:tongue:


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

People who shoot groups with FOB's are Paul's best friends/customers. LOL

I did that from 40 yards - I assumed there was NO way they'd hit each other that far away - cuz I couldn't do it with vanes.... oops.


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*fobin hood*

wow, 40 yrds! thats amazing!


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

bigram said:


> wow, 40 yrds! thats amazing!



LUCK plays a factor here too. LOL Had there been more than two arrows fired then I'd not count it as FobinHood at all. But one was shot - the other went CRACK - I love that sound. 

I hate it when people shoot 24 arrows into a target at 20 yards, then say "THREE ROBIN HOODS IN A ROW MAN!!" That crap don't count in my world 

Try it!! Race to Fobin Hood!! Who wants in?


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*fobin hoods*

well, i guess im in, so any rules in this, distance, arrows shot at once, any of this matter, lol :tongue:


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

bigram said:


> well, i guess im in, so any rules in this, distance, arrows shot at once, any of this matter, lol :tongue:


Danged if I know - let's go wreck some FOB's and iron out the details later. LOL


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

ok, well lets go, better get them fobs ready to be shiped eh paul, lol:set1_rolf2:
:hail:the fobs, lol


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

xring_assassin said:


> FOB's don't Robin Hood (HAHA FOBIN-HOOD?)


FOBIN Hoods! That is FOBulous!



xring_assassin said:


> People who shoot groups with FOB's are Paul's best friends/customers. LOL


Got that right! But I am starting to think the arrow guys like them too! Well, I would not go that far. So far my only friends are guys like you! Hunters and shooters. Not much incentive for the manufactures or shops for me to succeed.



bigram said:


> ok, well lets go, better get them fobs ready to be shiped eh paul, lol:set1_rolf2:
> :hail:the fobs, lol


Have FOBs will travel.

Regards,


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

there must be a tuning process 
i am not talking from field point to broadheads

when you used to shoot fletching you must have tuned the bow right?
for optimum nock height and centershot....

thats what i am asking is do you still use this same process , or is it slightly different?

I dont believe there isnt a best nock pooint or center shot to be had even while shooting these things


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

I used my favorite time tested method, set centershot with EZE-EYE lazer first, set nock at leavel to start with, then get target points flying to bullseyes like nobody's business, then shoot broadheads and tune til broadheads fly same as field points. I never have had ANY manner of luck with paper tuning, nor bareshaft tuning, but that's me. If BH's and field points fly the same place, I call the bow tuned. Weird thing is though, it seems FOB's correct arrow flight so wicked and crazy quickly that tuning them went two evenings faster than with blazers or vanetec vanes (and I love 4 vane arrow fletching). I had the FOB's and G5 Montec's tuned to hit same point of impact in a single evening. Granted it mighta been a cross between luck and the fact I know Hoyt's and, in particular, my Trykon pretty well. Just seemed to be my unofficial, un-myth bustered opinion that I had the FOB's flying awfully nicely really quickly. FOB's seem super forgiving. 

Bigram - do you shoot magnified sights? A BIG observation for me when I line up with my 4x target sight is that for the first time I can visibly see that FOB'd arrow scooting dead straight away in my sight. I've NEVER seen that with vanes....just wondeirng if anyone else has noticed that....I crunched one FOB this evening, no new FOBIN Hood yet. I think the rules are as many arrows shot as you wish, but one per spot sort of thing, followed by only one more arrow at the same to count as a true FOBin Hood. If you have 6 spots, 12 arrows can be shot sort of thing, range must be 20 yards or greater, with only two arrows shot per spot eh? LOL

This is gonna get expensive....and FUN!!

My last order was 6 dozen FOB's - I'm okay for awhile. I'm saving my black stealth FOB's for 3d though...they're sacred.

Never lend out your archery equipment or wife...they'll both come back.....hows that go Paul? LMAO


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

francis said:


> there must be a tuning process
> i am not talking from field point to broadheads
> 
> when you used to shoot fletching you must have tuned the bow right?
> ...


Ooops...

Now I get it. Some folks using FOBs shoot bare shaft through paper or keep a fletch arrow around and do the same. If your bow is tuned with fletches. You should be good to go. If you find when switching to FOBs, things are not flying so good. It has to be an interference issue with the rest, arrow holder or anchor.

If you have any specifics problems, I might be of some help. Do you find the FOBs are hitting low or left right problems? or just erratic?


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*tuning*

ya, all i had to do was change my anchor a little bit, but it wasnt hard, i use the fob as a kind of kisser button. they flew the same as with my tune up with the fletch. and i had to make my drop away fall a little bit faster. thats all i had to do!:wink:


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

i dont have any yet 

thinking about it still 

just wondering though 
if i can do a dozen arrows with FOBs , eyeball, my center shot and nock point like i normally do, then continue with fine tuning like in the easton guide, group tuning by experimantal nock point heights ,bare shaft tuning, walk back tuning etc.....

I am assuming that paper tuning will not work with these right?

I guess my point is that if these are suppose top replace fletching, i dont want to bring fletching into the equation wether its to start with or not

so besides paper tuning working or not working, will all the other methods that we are used to with regular fletching still apply and be recommened with FOB's?


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

francis said:


> I guess my point is that if these are suppose top replace fletching, i dont want to bring fletching into the equation wether its to start with or not
> 
> so besides paper tuning working or not working, will all the other methods that we are used to with regular fletching still apply and be recommened with FOB's?


Hurray! No need to bring fletching in the equation. I have not shot a fletch for years (except for the FOB vs. fletch video). I think you are 100% correct to just get things squared up and start shooting.

It has been my experience that everything that works for tuning a fletch will work with FOBs. The only difference is the FOB is more forgiving and as a general rule when you make an adjustment, easy goes it. Adjust about 1/2 the amount you would do with a fletch. The neon FOBs are quite visible so you should be able to detect a tail push up, down or left and right. But you will only notice it right out of the bow. After that, the arrow stabilizes very quickly and shoots straight. I like to get my pin on the center of the target then when I shoot, I look at the arrow as it leaves the bow. I am not concerned at this point hitting the bulls eye, just the target. That way I can get a good look at the arrow right when it leaves the bow. After I see the FOB is coming out perfectly straight. Then I begin to sight in. I hope this helps.

Regards,


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

this is my hunting setup, no magnifier here. i was out shooting this past night, at 60yrds so 20 yrds sounds way easier to me:tongue:

shoot straight guys!!:wink:


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## dalarcher (May 10, 2007)

Nice shooting Bigram... Nice shooting!.. Congrats on the first place finish

wow. Supper good job ….it’s a nice …


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## T.P.O.#3 (May 9, 2007)

Better start shooting all the spots! FOBS; freakin outstanding broadhead stabilazation!! count me in for acouple of those shirts.


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*fobin hoods*

hey, hows they shooting going?


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

I have a bulgie rammed into another FOB from 40 - but it blew the end of the arrow right off....dunno if that counts 'er not....lol

I have this cool looking feat now too....this will bug ur eyes figuring out what happened.


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*FOBs*

hey, nice group!
i just went to another tournament and got gold again. 

one target setup were 2 turkeys, in a tree, i shot first and hit the 10X ring, i told my dad where i aimed, and he did the same, fobin hooding my arrow!

ill post a picture of it later!

have fun, and shoot straight!


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## romanc333 (Feb 10, 2006)

*Fob Question*

I have maxima hunters for arrows what size fob do i need i need to hurry up and place a order cause the new bow is coming this week. I want to shoot the smaller of the fobs so if someone could let me know that would be great.

Thanks
Steve


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## Autorotate (Jan 29, 2007)

*1.0 STANDARD FOBs*

1.0 STANDARD FOBs for the Maxima Hunters. Black ones blend in to the target nicely for 3D.....:tongue:


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

*fobs*

yes, for your maxima you will need the standard ICS FOBs. 

the standard fobs will fit on any ICS ( internal component system) arrows. 

you can also get fobs for all easton axis, full metal jacket, a-c super slim, beman hit blackmax and MAX-4, and all carbon express edge and edge hunters. 

check out the starrflight site for more answers! http://starrflight.com/qa.php


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

bigram said:


> yes, for your maxima you will need the standard ICS FOBs.
> 
> the standard fobs will fit on any ICS ( internal component system) arrows.
> 
> ...


You have a very promising future in sales young feller  Personable and knowledgable....I like that. Where's the FOBIN HOOD pic you promised? LOL


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

Fobbin Hood pics

As promised
Turky in tree about 30 feet up, 20 yard shot


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## dkoutdoors (Mar 3, 2007)

*FOB's definately do what they are advertised to do, I wont be going back to fletching again.*


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## Jason Balazs (Feb 10, 2007)

Great shooting!! 

I know I love my FOB's and my FOB shirts too!! Paul has an awesome thing going here and we all know that!! 

Changing the archery world, one FOB shooter at a time!:wink:


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

to get your arrow set up the best you can before putting the fob on.....I was thinking to take a bareshaft and tune that through paper first to get close to a bullet hole, then put on the fob and group tune 

what do you think?


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## archer109 (Sep 10, 2005)

Paul when are the new colored fobs gonna be out. Glow in dark and maybe some neon colors for regular arrows.


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## dkoutdoors (Mar 3, 2007)

*I am ready for some glow in the dark as well. I know Paul is working on them. He is extremely busy putting in 90 or so hours per week. We need to get Paul in the woods.*


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

dkoutdoors said:


> *I am ready for some glow in the dark as well. I know Paul is working on them. He is extremely busy putting in 90 or so hours per week. We need to get Paul in the woods.*



Ha!

The best advise (and most disappointing) I ever got was from the patent lawyer who said "you have just about the most novel idea I have seen and you may make some money.....But don't quit your day job"

My day job takes about 40+ hours and the FOB will take as much as I can give before I drop.

I hope by this time next year, I will be able to quit my day job and be a full time FOBBER! At the moment I am about 25% there. The best thing that is happing is word of mouth is getting out (thanks to you all!!). No amount of advertising can beat word of mouth. Especially with a crazy off the wall gizmo as a FOB.

The color guy is still working on the GID additive. All I can do is keep bugging him but I do not want to over do it. My method of motivation is very plain. If you get us some GID FOBs that work we can sell them like crazy and we will buy more color. The problem is the FOBs do not need much color and the color guy is use to selling hundreds of pounds of stuff to big companies. So us buying 5-10 pounds of stuff does not put that much in his pocket.

I assure you the GID is among my top priority (customer service being #1).
Also I know we need shirts and hats!

I do plain on getting to the woods late August for my annual Elk hunt (have not missed one in 26 years). I think this will finally be the year I run into someone I do not know using FOBs. I am coming up with some kind of "Willy Wonka" prize when I do. I will post more about that soon with a few hints (maybe) Ha! 

BTY.....That turkey FOB-N-Hood is as good as it gets!

Regards,


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## dkoutdoors (Mar 3, 2007)

*My hat is off to you Paul, we will keep plugging away, you have an awesome product bar none.*


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

francis said:


> to get your arrow set up the best you can before putting the fob on.....I was thinking to take a bareshaft and tune that through paper first to get close to a bullet hole, then put on the fob and group tune
> 
> what do you think?



this is what me and my dad both did for paper tunning!

but what we liked more, was walk back tuning. made it way easier to tune left and right!


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

thanks I was hoping that would work 

funny sometimes it would be nice to know if we make changes to our setup interms of nock height and centershot because they are really out, or because we are forced to compensate for an arrow that is not best spined for our setup.........and how would we ever know the difference?


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## dkoutdoors (Mar 3, 2007)

*group tuning works well also.*


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## MoNofletch (Jul 28, 2003)

Shirts? I want one!


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## harp (Aug 27, 2007)

Right now I am shooting blazers. I had not even heard of FOB's until reading this thread. I am checking out the starrflight website right now. They look interesting.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

It will be interesting to see if they have issues with making other competitors arrows bounce out of line when hitting them off center. Are they a soft material that flexes when struck or are they a hard plastic that will alter the second arrows course towards the target? If they are hard they do take up a larger surface area of the scoring zone that may give them an unfair advantage... off to the web site to read up.


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

Grnmtn said:


> It will be interesting to see if they have issues with making other competitors arrows bounce out of line when hitting them off center. Are they a soft material that flexes when struck or are they a hard plastic that will alter the second arrows course towards the target? If they are hard they do take up a larger surface area of the scoring zone that may give them an unfair advantage... off to the web site to read up.



FOB's are made of fairly rigid plastic for sure, my experience I'd say they are tough, few ever break, but they aren't overly resilient to an impacting arrow, which makes sense even on paper because an arrow hitting with about 60 ft. pounds of KE (approx energy of 29 inch 400series carbon shot at 260FPS with 100grain tip) it would take something more rigid than a FOB on a carbon shaft to affect the impacting arrow flight adversely enough to cause a total loss of scoring hit. From my experience, the shaft a FOB is on is rather flexible and the weakest point of the equation here - most of the time an impacting arrow pushes FOB out of it's way, the shaft flexes, and the impacting arrow goes where it's suppose to anyway, or the FOB pulls the impacting arrow INSIDE it. I would bet the competitor shooting the FOB could be more the more cranky of the two competitors as his FOB would be either broken or nicked up, OR - the impacting arrow would be snuggled up against the FOB'd shaft. I've seen arrows inside FOB ring a few times....there's pictures in this thread of exactly that happening I beleive, even posted by myself I think. LOL 


If a shooter is using FOB's they're already heading for the winner's podium regardless....FOB's have most definitely improved my scores the most of anything I've come across is years.


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## rogbo (Jan 2, 2004)

I think the pictures of what happens when a FOB shooter attempts to group FOB's is answer enough. It is also important to note FOR the fob shooters. If you are like me you thought "well, shooting groups has never been a problem before. Heck I can't stack lincoln logs together much less arrows from 30 or 40 yards". Well after a few minutes of shooting my fobs I was almost in tears. I was popping fobs off and stakcing them together thinking about how impressed I was when I noticed the outer ring had cracked clean through on 3 of my brand new, high tech, fancy schmancey fobs. Though I might as well be shooting at dollar bills with all this was going to cost me. WRONG. instead of "ruining" more fobs I decided to shoot the cracked, dinged and otherwise (fubar'd) fobs. Guess what...they still work! So, I put a broadhead to the test. Hid the dog and girlfriend in the house, notified the neighbors to take refuge in the root cellar and put ems on stand by. After all no way was this "damaged" fob going to be able to guide my broadhead to the vitals. It was going to fly to timbucktoo. Shot after shot after shot, right in the vitals from every distance I'll shoot an animal from and a couple I never will. To truly ruin a FOB you need to smash it, obliterate it. Not just ding it or crack it. If anyone has seen the video footage posted on AT of my Fob'd arrow zipping through the KUDU and impala in africa with perfect flight....guess what? Same FOB was on both arrows and it had a cracked outer ring from practicing the week before.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

All of who compeate a lot have had times when we hit a nock and it kicks us to the next scoring ring. So I do have questions if you are striking the outside ring of the 1 inch circle of the plastic could easily push you out of the ten ring on a turkey size target or any depending on the arrow placement in the scoring ring. I supose it could also as you speak pull you into the ten as well. I don't see them as flexible as normal fletches which you poke a hole in or tear, but it wont affect where your arrow lands. This very well could.


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

Grnmtn said:


> All of who compeate a lot have had times when we hit a nock and it kicks us to the next scoring ring. So I do have questions if you are striking the outside ring of the 1 inch circle of the plastic could easily push you out of the ten ring on a turkey size target or any depending on the arrow placement in the scoring ring. I supose it could also as you speak pull you into the ten as well. I don't see them as flexible as normal fletches which you poke a hole in or tear, but it wont affect where your arrow lands. This very well could.


Can't argue with your logic here. You are correct - these could deflect a shaft more than conventional vanes in theory.

Also can't argue with the fact that these things aid in making SURE you hog the x-ring....LOL  I HAD to get a poke in there....all meant in good humor. Don't take me too seriously.


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

It;s too good to be true! Someone brought this thread back to life! haha:darkbeer:

They are strong, if you read through this thread, you will see i have only lost 3 in total at tournaments, 1 being in warm up, i destroyed it in a group, one popping off a wet shaft when being pulled, then not finding it, and 1 got shot by another shooter. 

You have to think about it a lil though. If you dont have a black FOB, and you make a good shot, you are giving the "enemy" an aiming point. they are harder to flex, but you can flex them. 

and i got my FOBinhood!


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

Agreed - black is my choice for even stump shoot nights at the local range next season.

My dang wife n kids have LOVED the round of "chase the FOB" when I'd shoot first - smack the bullseye on the target bag leaving a nice orange aimpoint for them all to try and hit. Funny thing though - only my wife who was shooting FOB's ever managed to hit it....


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

xring_assassin said:


> Agreed - black is my choice for even stump shoot nights at the local range next season.
> 
> *My dang wife n kids have LOVED the round of "chase the FOB" when I'd shoot first - smack the bullseye on the target bag leaving a nice orange aimpoint for them all to try and hit. Funny thing though - only my wife who was shooting FOB's ever managed to hit it....*




That's one of the best features about FOBs, they attract other FOBs, and don attract vanes and feathers! so as long as no other FOB shooters are with you, and you make good shots, your all good!:wink:


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

It looks and sounds like a great product. You shouldn't have too difficult a time marketing it, but do give some thought to how to handle being ruled out on the 3 d game. Having an arrow that blocks out an inch of target is going to get some bad press as more of them hit the national stage. Guys shooting against them will complain and I bet loudly.


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

Grnmtn said:


> It looks and sounds like a great product. You shouldn't have too difficult a time marketing it, but do give some thought to how to handle being ruled out on the 3 d game. Having an arrow that blocks out an inch of target is going to get some bad press as more of them hit the national stage. Guys shooting against them will complain and I bet loudly.


They are 100% legal for ANY type of shooting categorie, for ANY type of shoot, except for hunter class, because in that class you need a fletch of at least 4 inches in lenght. 

You can fit an arrow between the fins of a FOB, it doesnt cover 1 square inch of area. 

if you think they should rule out FOBs for 3-D, should they rule out fat shafts because they cover more area then an ICS arrow?


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## archery ham (Jul 26, 2007)

The plastic of the FOB is very stong...polycarbonate. When I got my new bow I had a few high fliers while getting my 40 and 55 yard pin set. I had two FOBs cut the "backbone" of my 3D deer and did not break.


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

bigram said:


> They are 100% legal for ANY type of shooting categorie, for ANY type of shoot, except for hunter class, because in that class you need a fletch of at least 4 inches in lenght.
> 
> You can fit an arrow between the fins of a FOB, it doesnt cover 1 square inch of area.
> 
> if you think they should rule out FOBs for 3-D, should they rule out fat shafts because they cover more area then an ICS arrow?


If I EVER shoot against you, young jedi master bigram, and try to complain loudly enough that FOBs cost me 91 points to land in second place behind you - feel free to FOB my butt....LOL


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

Yes at this point and time they are legal... but it is earily and their isn't even a minority status yet. I am just pointng out that if they do catch on there will be people complaining about it. 

Come on... shaft size differences is slight compared to an inch of target coverage.

When you come up and you are shooting against top regional and National shooters you may find a difference in number of arrow to nock contacts. When a glance out cost another shooter 2 points or more you are not going to be making many friends. Yep you can sit there and think he he he! But your nocks will become a target and with good shooters you better hope you carry enough to finish, then be ready for the complaints to the officials at the end. Folks don't trvel and spend 100's of dollars to shoot a national 3D event to have another shooter have a decidedly slanted advantage by blocking out a scoreing ring because of a hard plastic ring. So you may be correct now they are OK, but they are just too new to be known enough yet.


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

*Answer to FOB target hogging....*

Honestly I would have zero problem shooting last, or at least AFTER someone wishing to contend that FOB's hog the target. Competitive archery is STILL suppose to be the sport of a gentleman - thus - agreeing to take a step back from shooting first should never be a problem for ANY competitor....really....

Walk tall - carry big sticks (with FOB's on them), shoot last if need be, win the whole show, maintain the conduct of a gentleman - should be the goals of any competitive archer. (my .02 which is now durn near .03 US  )


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## Rattler (Dec 19, 2006)

I am in an Indoor League and they hate when I shoot first. I crack so many and cover up the kill zone that the other person has a helluva time getting his in there. I beat the guy sharing the same targets and lane with me by 75pts last week


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

xring_assassin said:


> Honestly I would have zero problem shooting last, or at least AFTER someone wishing to contend that FOB's hog the target. Competitive archery is STILL suppose to be the sport of a gentleman - thus - agreeing to take a step back from shooting first should never be a problem for ANY competitor....really....
> 
> Walk tall - carry big sticks (with FOB's on them), shoot last if need be, win the whole show, maintain the conduct of a gentleman - should be the goals of any competitive archer. (my .02 which is now durn near .03 US  )


I agree, if they have a problem with it, they can shoot first. And its good to be canadian eh?:darkbeer:



Watersnake said:


> I am in an Indoor League and they hate when I shoot first. I crack so many and cover up the kill zone that the other person has a helluva time getting his in there. I beat the guy sharing the same targets and lane with me by 75pts last week


Only 75?! Whats wrong with you :wink: haha


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

I really do not think it should be all that much of a big deal?

If so, cut the dang ring wing off. That should still fly a field point like a bullet. Just do not try and shoot a broadhead.:wink:

But seriously, It seems to me that the odds of bouncing in the kill zone are equal to bouncing out. Furthermore the FOB is not that tough. If an arrow is smacking the ring wing it will just bust up.

What I recommend for 3-D shoots that are not friendly (competitive). Is shoot both. On the 10-40 yard dump shots where the groups will be tight, shoot a vane. Then when you get that standing bear at 70 yards in a 15mph cross wind, let the FOB go. That is where you will have the biggest advantage and the chances of someone hitting the FOB are greatly reduced. Except if they are also shooting FOBs. Ha!


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

X and Big... your responces show your lack of experience with National level competition and the rules of the organizations. Every effort is made to keep the playing field as level as possible. Each shooter is required to take their turn at the stake first to see the open target with no aiming points other than the target or listening to the arrow speed to aid in the yardage estimation. Shooting last in line in a 3D event more times than not is an advantage.

Paul... I am not slamming your product it looks to really be a winner but I am betting you may have to work these questions in the future.


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

Grnmtn said:


> X and Big... your responces show your lack of experience with National level competition and the rules of the organizations. Every effort is made to keep the playing field as level as possible. Each shooter is required to take their turn at the stake first to see the open target with no aiming points other than the target or listening to the arrow speed to aid in the yardage estimation. Shooting last in line in a 3D event more times than not is an advantage.
> 
> Paul... I am not slamming your product it looks to really be a winner but I am betting you may have to work these questions in the future.


Right you are on that one - I've made - and won few years back now - provincials - alas - I am married - I have a job, a wife, kids, and a life, archery is my hobby - not my life, I couldn't arrange, nor afford the TIME away from my wife and kids, or my job, to get to nationals. At that time it would only have cost me the time off work to go also as some Alberta sports something or other had offered to pay my trip, hotel etc. - it was purely the time I would not give up to go. I don't regret it a bit either that I didn't go - for the record.

Now if I had a shining personality like yours, I too would likely be 45 and single and I could afford the time to do anything I wanted.

For now - FOB's are allowed - and yes they may not be allowed in the future. Until then, if you come up against them - whine all you want - they're allowed.


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

Grnmtn said:


> Paul... I am not slamming your product it looks to really be a winner but I am betting you may have to work these questions in the future.


I do appreciate you comments Brian. For sure the FOB was designed from the ground up has a hunting product. Only time will tell how much of the 3-D market we can gain and how it will be recieved. For fun shoots and long distance competitive I think they will work out.

For indoor five spot shoots the FOB would be ideal because of the consistency. My hope is to gain a share of 3-D and indoor individual spot shooting. 

Regards,


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

Ahhh X thanks for the personal attack. FYI I am 45, married with two daughters, one a senior another 12. I coach girls soccer and soft ball as well as I am a pro staffer for Easton and other companys. I also own and run my own Personal Chef service. I do travel around the states shooting in National tournaments as well as work open houses and shows for the companies I represent. My wife and one daughter travel and compeate now with the other interested in other things but at one time compeated as well. So yea I have my life built around archery my hobby. For me I am speaking of ASA and IBO rules not your Canadian provincials. I do enjoy hunting in your fine country, as your countrymen really know how to treat guest to their country. I apologize for cheesing you off and should have been clearer in what rules and sales and marketing I was speaking of as you do have some difference in your way of doing things up north. As for shooting against FOB... if they are in the X they are going to be a nice target. My comments were for Paul to concider in the marketing of his product in the 3D venue and what he is undoubtedly going to have to address soon as his product becomes more popular.


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

After viewing many of your posts in threads here - I couldn't resist taking a poke - seems you're almost always negative in some form or another, or throwing down the "competing in nationals" bit. 
Then I checked your public profile - almost all filled out BUT marital status - did a little math - "likely single"....thus the basis of the poke.
Yup ya cheesed me off with the attitude - one my contrymen often stereotype as "that damn yankee arrogance"....
Sorry for the poke...won't happen again.
NEXT TIME I feel like saying "will you just DROP it and SHUT UP" I'll say JUST THAT.
I think the proverbial horse has been kicked to death - back to topic and dump the thread hijack???
Truce?

ONE and only one question - do you still actually ENJOY and get any relaxation out of archery or has all the fretting and rules destroyed the sport for you?


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

Ya, i think we should bring this back to the original reason the thread was made... i think we hijacked it a lil way back eh Xring? with the Fob-inhoods:wink:

Started this thread to let people know of how FOBs do in 3-d tournaments.... 

Unlike popular belief, the FOBs are very durable at tournaments, seems many think you will need 1 FOB/target, ask anyone, nearly undistructible, out of 4 shoots (3 tournaments and one fun shoot), only 1 of my FOBs have gotten broken from another shooter. I've lost one when the shaft was wet and my hand slid down it, popping off the FOB, and a thrid, while i was doing warm up, and i broke it.

Yes, they make a huge reference mark on the target... unless you shoot a black FOB, then in most targets, its hard to see. 

Noone i ever shot with complained about the FOBs taking up to make area on the target.

Legal in all classes, except hunter class... due to the FOB not being 4'' or longer.

No FOB made for a fat shaft...but you can make an adapter...

Did i leave anything out?? haha:darkbeer:


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

Truce declared! :yield: I do not have much experience shooting 3-D so I will leave the debate up to folks with more knowledge.

All I know is when I shot Redding a few years back. First thing I did was get a ruling and then ask everyone in my group if they had a problem me using FOBs.

The officials said go for it, and my group said give me a target to shoot at:wink:. Truth be told...It was a very friendly group and most of the short targets have multiple shots so stacking was not a problem. But on the shots that only had a few spots, the game was on to break the FOBs. I broke 3 FOBs on the two day shoot and my buddy Chad (God rest his sole) broke only one. I hope 3-D and FOBs will not be a hassle. They are legal and I think they will only provide the other shooters with a target rather than an obstacle.

My Friends who shoot 3-D here locally, always say they get lots of questions, but no complaints. They also say on the windy days, FOBs rule! Just my 0.02worth. I always ask "how many FOBs did you break"? It is usually just a few.

bigram,

You did forget one thing. One my favorite photos...... a FOBinhood 3-D of yours. You could not have walked up and stuck it better. 

I will let you tell the story,


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

Paul Morris said:


> Truce declared! :yield: I do not have much experience shooting 3-D so I will leave the debate up to folks with more knowledge.
> 
> 
> bigram,
> ...


I love the Truce - that picture RULES (more because there's a father/son moment there too) and I hereby declare my skinny white butt off for the weekend - I'm taking the in-laws up on a Saskatchewan deer hunt....there may be a truce here, but I declare the hunt on for the big whitetails one province over!

Back monday....or so....maybe....


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

xring_assassin said:


> but I declare the hunt on for the big whitetails one province over!
> 
> Back monday....or so....maybe....


Best of luck on the hunt!!


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

Haha, well the turkey FOB-inhood....

It was the second day of the tournament, and the stakes were moved not only farther from the trukeys... but also to a different angle... we came up to the stakes ( everyone except cubs shot from the same place here) and i said i would be the first to shoot it. i looked for a minute, and guessed it to be 15 yrds from the tree. Dad told me to put the pin about 4 inches low, and i did that then a lil... got it dead in the X. Told dad where i put the pin, and he did just that. First thing we hear is a like thwack(from his bow) then a loud THWACKfrom the arrow hitting each other. we pulled it down, took some pics, then wondered if that counted as a hit? Put it down as one... and off we were... had to carry it around for about 15 more targets... you have no idea how many times it almost get ran over and such.... good times:darkbeer:

Have fun!


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

I guess it is difficult to tell suttle meaning in the written word on a faceless medium of the internet. 

I very much enjoy the 3D and archery game as at times I am traveling 19 hours one way to go to a shoot. Rules are part of the game and are there to be followed to keep things level. Following them doesn't bother me one bit. 

As Paul stated he is looking for input from people who are in the business, live the life and have experience in the sport. You seem to have taken my questions as a knock on the product, but they are legitamate observation not a negitive this product sucks post. You read too much into my questions and observation. Truce it is.

Paul I really do hope they make a big splash on the scene. I will for sure give them a good test this year as I am always tinkering with new stuff. Nock hunters I shoot with tho will really be into looking for them.

Big... that is a cool picture. Keep making those memories with Dad. Time can run short so appreciate each and every one.


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