# Stuck in a Chill X nightmare



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Well, I really liked the bow until I started trying to tune it. Initially I tried with a NAP Quick tune. Disastrous results. Ordered a Hamskea Hybrid Hunter, set it up and just walk back tuned it. But I could still see poor arrow flight. I've got a break for a few weeks in 3D, just can't get to two of the clubs and get to work. So I ordered new arrows and planned on doing some tuning. 

Set up is

Matthews Chill X, 70 lbs maxed out, 28.5" DL
Tru Ball Center X release
Hamskea Hybrid Hunter rest
Gold Tip X Cutters, 29.5 carbon to carbon, screw in inserts, 75 gr tips

Problem, I simply cannot tune it paper or BS to any satisfaction. I can walk back tune it reasonably well. Paper tune at 6' is tail right, best I can do is about 1.5" tear. At 10 yards its tail left about the same. So it's fishtailing pretty good. Have not bothered to walk it out to see where it stops, but at 30-35 you can still see it moving at the shot. Moving the rest makes no difference. No yokes to tune. Any other options outside of taking it apart? I'll post pics under. Rather type on the computer and post pics from the phone. The only plus is I finally got the nock problem mostly fixed via BS so it's not porpoising like it was.


----------



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Well, now is the time Tapatalk decides to crash, so lets go with photo bucket. 

Best I could get BS.




My paper tuning nightmare. Left and right tears. Shot a BS at 10 yards and it had to be a 7-8" right tear. 




Walk back tuning at the end of the day. Mainly out of frustration and throwing my hands up. Might get better tomorrow when I do it again, but overall this is pretty normal looking. Some play but no drifting. The one farther right did not feel right on the shot BTW.




Here is the rig.





Best I could get of a quick center shot pic. Measured at 3/4", maybe just a smidge under.


----------



## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Looks like you're going to have to get the top hat kit from a dealer and start playing with those. I also noticed you had a focus grip on there, I don't think it will help with the paper or bs tune but it might on walk back, but you might try replacing that with either one of the new flat back grips or a HDA.


----------



## Tacticalarchery (Jun 8, 2015)

Have you tried swap2cam bushing around?
I have owned 11 chill x last year and 8 of them I had to do so. It's simple thing to do but be the first thing I'd do before anything else is purchased, do you have any cam lean?
At full draw is where you can really tell, if so you will need to shim cam.

Pm me with your number I'll walk you throughany of this


----------



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Tacticalarchery said:


> Have you tried swap2cam bushing around?
> I have owned 11 chill x last year and 8 of them I had to do so. It's simple thing to do but be the first thing I'd do before anything else is purchased, do you have any cam lean?
> At full draw is where you can really tell, if so you will need to shim cam.
> 
> Pm me with your number I'll walk you throughany of this


At rest there is lean, basically they point towards the cable slide a bit. Have not noticed at full draw, might have my wife look at it tomorrow. I'm going to call the shop where I bought it and talk to him tomorrow. Pretty sharp guy, so maybe he's dealt with it too. If that does not pan out you will likely get a PM. Thanks. 

FWIW, when I get it walk back tuned it's pretty good. I'm not scoring any lower on 3D, and have had some really good scores with it. Just drives me nuts to know it could be better and was hoping to get it there.


----------



## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

This helped me out tremendously!!!

https://m.facebook.com/danmccarthyarchery/posts/1580234828869960

https://m.facebook.com/danmccarthya...463468744./1895167544043352/?type=3&source=42

As stated below,Look into an HDA grip! It's pricey,but WELL WORTH IT! Good luck buddy!


----------



## SAVIOUR68 (Apr 3, 2014)

If your center shoot is inside 3/4 that may be a clue, and to fix this issue would need to move outward toward the bareshaft.
Accurately measure the center shot in relation to the riser in the front and rear, set them both at EXACT SAME MEASUREMENT which should relate to your cam lean. Once both are set around same measurement shoot again and post your results.
Normally arrows that sit like this / or oppose on a rest show shooter induced bow torque


----------



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

SAVIOUR68 said:


> If your center shoot is inside 3/4 that may be a clue, and to fix this issue would need to move outward toward the bareshaft.
> Accurately measure the center shot in relation to the riser in the front and rear, set them both at EXACT SAME MEASUREMENT which should relate to your cam lean. Once both are set around same measurement shoot again and post your results.
> Normally arrows that sit like this / or oppose on a rest show shooter induced bow torque


Yesterday was a quick measurement with a ruler. Broke out the calipers today and used them to transfer the measurement to the ruler. It's 13/16 front and back. When I had it set to the best paper tune, it would start to creep left when walking it back. So that 13/16 is also where I get my best walk back tune, which makes sense since that is the center shot on the bow. 

As to cam lean, I checked the spacing on the cams. The top is evenly spaced. The bottom is to the left more. From reading the FB posts linked above it looks like swapping the bottom spacers might help too. Sounds like the cams need to move right. 

As to torque, I'm not claiming it could not be. Anything is possible. But this bow has had a right tear since I bought it. Just blamed it on the whisker biscuit initially and figured that was as good as it gets. When I started getting nicer rests I thought it would improve. It did not.


----------



## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

Try what McCarthy talks about with the nock set on the bottom and start changing them to the top.


----------



## SAVIOUR68 (Apr 3, 2014)

chiefjason said:


> Yesterday was a quick measurement with a ruler. Broke out the calipers today and used them to transfer the measurement to the ruler. It's 13/16 front and back. When I had it set to the best paper tune, it would start to creep left when walking it back. So that 13/16 is also where I get my best walk back tune, which makes sense since that is the center shot on the bow.
> 
> As to cam lean, I checked the spacing on the cams. The top is evenly spaced. The bottom is to the left more. From reading the FB posts linked above it looks like swapping the bottom spacers might help too. Sounds like the cams need to move right.
> 
> As to torque, I'm not claiming it could not be. Anything is possible. But this bow has had a right tear since I bought it. Just blamed it on the whisker biscuit initially and figured that was as good as it gets. When I started getting nicer rests I thought it would improve. It did not.


OK try a 125 gr point to the arrow and recheck bareshaft, your shooting a 250 spine arrow with 110grs up front which it may want more point weight.
If your at 13/16 and shaft is centered front and back just leave it there, 3/4 -13/16 is the normal tuning window on most bows


----------



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Don't have 125's in house, but 100's did nothing. 75 actually shot better with less tear at 10 yards. Nearly identical at 6-8 feet. 

As to knock, it was initially knock high so have not seen what it does knock low. Easy enough to try. Well, it did get low when I was BS shooting it but never ran it through paper as I was wanting BS and fletched even.

Just talked to the shop. His suggestion is just walk it back and shoot it. Although it would work, think I'll look into tweaking a bit more here. Would like to know it's coming out straight instead of kicking to the right out of the bow.


----------



## SAVIOUR68 (Apr 3, 2014)

Do you have any other arrows at home to try, 300-350 spine
Also do you notice any wear on the rest arm on any side more than an other


----------



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

SAVIOUR68 said:


> Do you have any other arrows at home to try, 300-350 spine
> Also do you notice any wear on the rest arm on any side more than an other


Beaman Bowhunter 340's did the same thing. All the previous tuning attempts were made with the 340's with the same results plus a nock high. Fixed the nock high already. Rest is pretty new. All the wear is nice and centered. But I've only had the X cutters for a week. No noticeable marks on the rest from fletching hits, cable is clear, fletchings do not look oddly worn from contact. 

Just moved the bottom cam top hats to shim it over to the right. Have not shot it yet. Will report back in a bit. Funny how confusing the whole top hat thing was until I took one out. lol Easier than expected too. Hardest part was getting the axle back in the far top hat.


----------



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Supermag1 said:


> Looks like you're going to have to get the top hat kit from a dealer and start playing with those. I also noticed you had a focus grip on there, I don't think it will help with the paper or bs tune but it might on walk back, but you might try replacing that with either one of the new flat back grips or a HDA.


I'll look into the grip later and maybe a top hat kit. But things are much better now. 



Tacticalarchery said:


> Have you tried swap2cam bushing around?


Swapped the bushing on the bottom cam and pulled half or more of the right tear out depending on distance. 3', near bullet hole, slight nock high. 6' half as much tear as before. 20' half as much tear as before. 40 yards, half the movement it had before. Not a dart, but much better. 



Bryan Thacker said:


> This helped me out tremendously!!!


The posts were great! Particularly swapping the factory bushings. 



pointndog said:


> Try what McCarthy talks about with the nock set on the bottom and start changing them to the top.


Had to lower it a bit more than before. I'll shoot a couple BS this evening but likely not move it any more. 



SAVIOUR68 said:


> Do you have any other arrows at home to try, 300-350 spine
> Also do you notice any wear on the rest arm on any side more than an other


Thanks for the pointers to look at.



3' tears. 











12'











20'











First shot from cold bow.


----------



## SAVIOUR68 (Apr 3, 2014)

Looks alot better and workable


----------



## elkguidebz (Sep 7, 2010)

not trying to insult your intelligence but what arrows are you shooting i had to go to a weaker spine arrow to get mine to tune


----------



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

elkguidebz said:


> not trying to insult your intelligence but what arrows are you shooting i had to go to a weaker spine arrow to get mine to tune


Initially Beeman Bowhunter 340's. The last of the paper tuning was with Gold Tip X Cutters. Switched to them for 3D. So, not weaker by any means. lol I've got the bow maxed out at 70 lbs. The 340's and X cutters pretty much acted exactly the same on paper and trying to BS tune. Still need to look into the spacer kit. I think I could get it tweaked a bit more with that.


----------



## nickel shooter5 (Dec 26, 2009)

This is almost the exact set up I'm shooting. I can't get tall vains to clear my cables. I went to a 4 fletch and took brass nocks off the lower end. The bow will flat out shoot when you get it where you want it


----------



## Mr.Wiggles (Dec 29, 2007)

That's a lot of tuning trying to get it to shoot ,I did this once with a bowtech allegiance,after all was said and done it was the simplest of things that I overlooked,nock pinch and serving was too tight on the nooks causing irradic flight every shot.


----------



## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Yeah, it was a lot to deal with. But in the end it's shooting better, arrow flight is better, and my odd spacing and gaps in my sight tape are gone. Tighter spacing and nice and even. So even though it was a hassle it was well worth the effort. Now I only have myself to blame.


----------

