# Is there a "best" trad bow brand?



## DEW0341 (Dec 6, 2015)

I’m a total newb but from what I gather is no one brand is better than the other, it’s all on you and how you like to shoot. I’ve got a sammick Sage I got used and been shooting it Dailey for the past 6 months and I like it over my buddies hoyt satori, not to say the satori is worse, it’s just the sammick I’m confident with. Your perception is your reality I guess. 


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Longbow:
Timberpoint, Javaman, Fox, Omega, Border....

Recurve:
Morrison, Border, Habu, Lazarev (kind of).....


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## warriors.meadow (Feb 12, 2016)

The pot has been stirred.... lol 


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

_*"Is there a "best" trad bow brand?" *_



Yes.

But it's not the same for every archer.

KPC


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## woof156 (Apr 3, 2018)

GEREP said:


> _*"Is there a "best" trad bow brand?" *_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That^^


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

Allow me to rephrase the question. If money is not an issue and you could have any bow you want (custom made or off the shelf) that is well constructed, performs exceptionally well, looks nice, retains its value and easily & universally recognized as a superior quality bow worldwide...who might that be?


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## Yooper-travler (Feb 28, 2011)

Where's Bruce? said:


> Allow me to rephrase the question. If money is not an issue and you could have any bow you want (custom made or off the shelf) that is well constructed, performs exceptionally well, looks nice, retains its value and easily & universally recognized as a superior quality bow worldwide...who might that be?



It’s different for all of us. All you will get is one gentleman’s opinion. We all like or dislike certain aspects of the multitude of bows out there. 

Looks? It’s personal. Some like the way a Black Widow looks, others don’t. Some like a TD PMA over a one piece KB. Some like one wood Combination over another. Some folks don’t like their widows to have any red and some do. And that’s just one bow brand. 

Value retention? Schafer, Widows, Border, Tall Tines, some ILF risers/limbs etc... but here’s the thing. Very few of us get back what we paid new for a custom bow. Your 1400.00 new Black widow is going to fetch about 750-850 used depending on accessories. Most of us buy used. 

Quality? Cheap bows from the 1960s are everywhere and still being used. As are “ heap” imports from overseas. I saw a limb give out on a new custom 2000.00 bow after less than 50 arrows. It happens. 

If you’re looking for a consensus with guys like us, trust me you will never find it. In fact most of us have a lot of different bows right now and have bought and sold even more. What you’ll find is that as you develop more as an archer you may begin to appreciate or gravitate towards a certain type of bow, or a grip or maybe a take down versus a one piece. It’s all about the journey.


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## strugglesticks (Dec 26, 2017)

I think if money was no object I would get a Border with their fastest limbs. The bolt down model, not ILF. Just to see how flat they shoot.

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## stikbow208 (Dec 15, 2013)

I agree with the Yooper. We are all different.

I've always been partial to Black Widows but I've had Predators that cost a little less and perform just as well. For beauty I look at Blacktail bows but there's no place on my rack for an $8000 bow. I'm satisfied with the performance of my bows but would love to try out one of the Super Recurves like Border or Morrison. I have a 1968 Herter's that draws smooth as silk and shoots just as consistently as every other bow I've owned. I also cruise the classifieds looking for my next bow.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Three things not discussed (so far) is compatibility, availability and customer service.

I've seen folks need replacement limbs only to find their bowyer either changed attachment spec or went out of business, has a 18 month waiting list or the warranty just expired/you voided it.

So for me I want ILF, period. I can get a high performance off the shelf limb in 2-3 days, with warranty support from LAS, with almost no strings attached (like $150 round trip shipping from Europe or 8gpp limit).

But I'd want a riser built around my exact requirements. Not a custom wood selection or a couple of grip options. I mean everything. There are perhaps two or three providers of risers like that (Lazarev, Rossing and Border-kind of).


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## moog5050 (Oct 23, 2012)

Yooper-travler said:


> It’s different for all of us. All you will get is one gentleman’s opinion. We all like or dislike certain aspects of the multitude of bows out there.
> 
> Looks? It’s personal. Some like the way a Black Widow looks, others don’t. Some like a TD PMA over a one piece KB. Some like one wood Combination over another. Some folks don’t like their widows to have any red and some do. And that’s just one bow brand.
> 
> ...


Spot on. Heck, ask me any month of the year and I might give a different answer. Buy used if possible and try them out. If you don't over pay, you can usually sell them without much loss if you decide that bow isn't for you. I seem to consistently come back to my black widow PCHXs, but am really enjoying a tall tines and Schafer longbow right now. I did jump off of the ilf train recently, but there are lots of good manufacturers in that arena too.


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## Yooper-travler (Feb 28, 2011)

moog5050 said:


> Spot on. Heck, ask me any month of the year and I might give a different answer. Buy used if possible and try them out. If you don't over pay, you can usually sell them without much loss if you decide that bow isn't for you. I seem to consistently come back to my black widow PCHXs, but am really enjoying a tall tines and Schafer longbow right now. I did jump off of the ilf train recently, but there are lots of good manufacturers in that arena too.


Brian I didn't even bring up specific colors, like,,,,,,gunmetal. :darkbeer:


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## moog5050 (Oct 23, 2012)

Yooper-travler said:


> Brian I didn't even bring up specific colors, like,,,,,,gunmetal. :darkbeer:


But I know you were thinking it!


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

Fascinating...I expected more of an auto comparison with a Roles Royce vs Tesla mentality but archery truly is a unique market. I agree the ILF seems to provide greater opportunity to experiment. This is so interesting. I found bowhunting with a CB to be the single greatest challenge of my life but entering the world of trad is topping it. Nobody agrees on anything! LOL


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

A good ILF riser and limbs is definitely the most versatile bow for someone new to stickbows, and many find that is the best bow for them over anything else. 

The thing is, there are lots of flavors of stickbow and the only real way to know what you like is to start trying them. Just about anything shows up in the classified for about one half to two thirds of the new price, and once that initial depreciation is done they hold their value very well. I've bought most of my recurves used, some I've kept and others I've sold for about what I paid for them. Shipping is usually the only money you are out.

Will you like metal riser bows, ILF or bolt down? Longbow or recurve (ILF limb are available in both), Hill style longbow, reflex-deflex longbow, hybrid longbow, one piece bows (recurve or longbow), two piece TD bows (recurve or longbow), three piece TD wood riser bows (recurve or longbow)...the options go on.

For myself, I like wood riser bows in general and recurves in particular. I like the extra mass of the big riser and limb bolt metal. I'm not a competitive target shooter or I'd probably lean more toward the metal riser ILF recurve. I prefer a wood riser in cold weather, much more comfortable than a metal riser. I also like the beautiful woods available in the higher end recurves. My favorite bow is a 64" three piece Blacktail recurve but have bows from several other bowyers. If I couldn't shoot a Blacktail I'd be shooting one of my Schafer Silvertips. 

There are so many nice bows out there it's impossible to say one is best for anyone but me. What I like may not be what the next archer likes.


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## Greencb (Jul 8, 2008)

Every Bowyer has a design that represents the trade offs they have chose to make. Everything in Archery is a a trade off of some sort. If you want top speed you will give up some sound. if you want a forgiving shot you may give up some performance. There is no best overall for all of us. There is certainly a best or you. A guy with a bad bowarm and decent release may like a deflex riser with recurve limbs. A guy with a poor release and a great bow arm may love a long bow. Everyone is different.


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## Brad Lehmann (Sep 4, 2010)

Schafer Silvertip, Tall Tines, Blacktail. Good bows don't come cheap. You can enjoy archery with a cheap bow if you never shoot a top tier bow, if you do shoot one you are ruined and will want one. To me ILF bows rattle like a bucket of bolts. Sure they are convenient, but that convenience comes with a price. If all that I did was shoot at targets then I would probably get some ear plugs and buy an ILF rig. Just my opinion.


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## psnguyen (Jun 15, 2018)

grantmac said:


> So for me I want ILF, period. I can get a high performance off the shelf limb in 2-3 days, with warranty support from LAS, with almost no strings attached.


But if you're shooting a bow, wouldn't you want a string attached?


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## danreid27 (Dec 30, 2018)

Black Widow


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## Yooper-travler (Feb 28, 2011)

moog5050 said:


> But I know you were thinking it!


My next Tall Tines will be gunmetal. Or pewter lol


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

Shopping has officially begun.


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## atvinton (Jan 9, 2019)

Wes Wallace has to be in the discussion. Wengerd is up there, as well.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

Where's Bruce? said:


> Fascinating...I expected more of an auto comparison with a Roles Royce vs Tesla mentality but archery truly is a unique market. I agree the ILF seems to provide greater opportunity to experiment. This is so interesting. I found bowhunting with a CB to be the single greatest challenge of my life but entering the world of trad is topping it. Nobody agrees on anything! LOL


*Its not so much nobody agrees...its that there are too many factors...including how you plan to shoot.*...and what your personal preferences are to say which is "Best".

BEST for what? 

To use your car analogy, Its easy to say something like 'Porche is best', but for a guy that drives to work 150 miles every day in thick traffic...or on some crummy roads? Is it smart to tear that car up? So what is 'The Best' car for driving to work? You see, Thats what this best hunting bow question sounds like. 

A guy that wants to shoot a fixed crawl for max slot distance spots....won't like a short one piece Shrew style longbow....no matter how pretty it looks. A guy looking for max accuracy won't like the un-tunability of a Hill style longbow. 

So a question like, "What is the best manufacturer....or best bow" depends on so many criteria that one really can't even answer the question. 

The BEST answer to all of these 'Best' questions is a cheap 30#starter bow- and just about everyone recommends it- that you can use to develop your shooting while you try a bunch of others looking for that Holy Grail bow. You will develop a preference....and there are hundreds of good bows in each category to chose from. 

I've told you this 5x- if you HAVE to buy something nice out of the shoot- buy a nice ILF riser and some cheap lightweight limbs. You can bump up the limbs as you progress.

The BIG part about stickbow shooting....it ain't so much the bow....but the guy shooting it. 

A guy can get decent accuracy in 5 minutes with relatively little skills shooting a compound....not so with a stickbow....they make you work at it!


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## Tradchef (Oct 30, 2004)

Beendare said:


> *Its not so much nobody agrees...its that there are too many factors...including how you plan to shoot.*...and what your personal preferences are to say which is "Best".
> 
> BEST for what?
> 
> ...



Right here. There’s no best anything. It’s what works for you. Doesn’t matter what the guy next to you shoots or hunts with. The brand isn’t going to make you kill animals or hit targets any better. If a widow feels good.....shoot it....if a wengard shoots good......use it......if a local guy making a killer bow at a cheaper price works for you go for it. Shoot it, learn it, make your mistakes and learn from it. I beat the crap out of all of my equipment out here. I have some expensive things and some things that just work that maybe most people just stick their nose up at. I don’t care. What matters to me in a bow is something that puts an arrow where I need it to go, a grip that fits my smaller hands, a bow I can use as a walking stick if need be, one if I have to drop it, throw it...whatever, that whe I go to pick it up it works just the same and I don’t cry about having it get scuffed. Most important is keeping my freezer full and myself and family fed. We all have our reasons for our choices but I feel learning to shoot and learning your bow is more important than a brand of bow.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

ChefChivo said:


> .....* a bow I can use as a walking stick if need be, one if I have to drop it, throw it...whatever, that when I go to pick it up it works just the same and I don’t cry about having it get scuffed. * Most important is keeping my freezer full and myself and family fed. We all have our reasons for our choices but I feel learning to shoot and learning your bow is more important than a brand of bow.


So I take it you AREN'T shooting one of those Blacktail $8,500 Legacy grade jobs with the gold leaf engraving, eh? <at link>
https://www.blacktailbows.com/store/p209/Inventory_Bow_-_Legacy_Series_%22Sky_Hunter%22_Recurve_%2862%22E%2C_48%23_%40_28%22%29_-_AVAILABLE_NOW.html


Sloucher.....spend some of that coin you got on your equipment bro......


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## Tradchef (Oct 30, 2004)

Lmfao.............I use my omega imperial and my rustic archer mongols. Both shoot lights out and aren’t afraid to get beat up and bloody.


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## 10arrows (Feb 6, 2016)

I shot a Robertson Fatal Styck and haven't had the need to shoot another recurve. It just fits me. Now with longbows I have shot several and some I shoot much better than others. It is an individual choice. My favorites are Thundersticks MOAB and the III. Also Dan Toelke makes a nice longbow; fast, smooth and quiet.


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## woof156 (Apr 3, 2018)

I would check out Bob Lee Bows as well they have been doing this longer than most and they deliver on what they claim.


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## Pauljules59 (Oct 7, 2018)

Agree - I shoot a circa early 70's Bear recurve, Howard Hill longbow made 1981, American archery recurve early 80's, and a Seven lakes longbow i just purchased 2 years ago. They all shoot great but with all the makes out there now I bet I can find something that shoots better than any of these. Few people can purchase them all.


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

Beendare said:


> *Its not so much nobody agrees...its that there are too many factors...including how you plan to shoot.*...and what your personal preferences are to say which is "Best".
> 
> BEST for what?
> 
> ...


I get it now. Yesterday was just crazy and I can’t stop giggling. OMG! So I show up at the archery range with the Satori and 55lb limbs that I got on ebay for $500. The used bow had a CB grip on it which I hated. Replaced that. $30 plastic grip feels good. The bow string is very thick compared to most so they’re thinking custom or hand made. My instructor has a pair of 35lb limbs for me but I wanna try the 55s first….just a few shots. At ten yards and just winging it I am on paper, everything feels right and the bow is whisper quiet. No problem pulling it back. I tell the trainer I wanna shoot it further so we go downstairs to the longer range and I shoot it at 20 yards. Boom, a few shots and it feels good. Never left the 20 yard range thereafter. 

We put the 35lb limbs on and instantly realize an issue…the 55lb limbs are shorts, the 35s are mediums. Now I own two strings. So we go through the gap and creep lesson and after 90 minutes and getting steadily worse I’m feeling myself cross over from humble to humiliated. Zero consistency. A few times I can make a tight group (arrows touching) but other times I’m not even on paper. So I turn to Mike (my instructor) and ask him to stand behind me and say nothing…I’m gonna shoot six arrows like I did upstairs, no aiming, just “feeling” right? All six arrows are in the circle, granted the circles were different colors but it was a pie plate. Pure instinctive, shot six arrows quicker and more accurately because I wasn’t focusing on this or that. Aiming, where my release hand is after the shot, using two or three fingers, is the string touching my chest, yada yada yada. The moment I stopped focusing on that stuff and shooting in a manner that just felt natural (looking at the target with the bow slightly canted) it all comes together. 

And suddenly, just like that I’m happy. Instinctive is just plain fun! Can’t stop smiling. Very different than CB practice. Will practice with it this week (gotta make some range changes at home so I don’t bust a bunch of arrows) and will post up some video and photos next week or so. Gotta make sure today wasn’t a fluke. But I will admit this, releasing an arrow without aiming just because it “feels right” is about as much fun as I have ever had and when you drill the center of the target it’s almost magical. Not at all what I expected. No Fedora, no suede fringe, just shooting for pure enjoyment. I think I’m hooked.


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## penumbra (Aug 23, 2016)

Yes and no.


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## Smokedinpa (Mar 1, 2015)

The best bow is the one that feels right to you. Not a specific brand name or price.


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## woof156 (Apr 3, 2018)

So it turns out that the best bow will be the one you decide you want and buy-- the good nuz is there are lots of choices and the bad nuz is there are lots of choices...


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## totalinertia (May 5, 2014)

That's easy, but they aren't made anymore. The best hunting recurve ever made is the Wellman Hurricane Hunter. I think he sprinkled his bows with magic fairy dust. That is how good it feels in hand.


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## snow panther (Feb 8, 2006)

Where's Bruce? said:


> And suddenly, just like that I’m happy. Instinctive is just plain fun! Can’t stop smiling. Very different than CB practice. Will practice with it this week (gotta make some range changes at home so I don’t bust a bunch of arrows) and will post up some video and photos next week or so. Gotta make sure today wasn’t a fluke. But I will admit this, releasing an arrow without aiming just because it “feels right” is about as much fun as I have ever had and when you drill the center of the target it’s almost magical. Not at all what I expected. No Fedora, no suede fringe, just shooting for pure enjoyment. I think I’m hooked.


Here you go! Congratulations and welcome to this new addicting and pleasant world.


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## snow panther (Feb 8, 2006)

And concerning your original question "Is there a "best" trad bow brand?": the answer is plain and simple: no :wink:


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

tradchef said:


> lmfao.............i use my omega imperial and my rustic archer mongols. Both shoot lights out and aren’t afraid to get beat up and bloody.


atta boy!


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## Smash_86 (Jun 3, 2018)

Everyone probably has their favourites but for me it's Border and Stalker Stickbows. There are some damn nice ILF risers around at the moment though


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## Wag03 (Sep 26, 2016)

I think whatever you like and shoot the best


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## mando (Jun 2, 2011)

I have owned alot of different brands. Mostly a personal choice. Last season I hunted with my Hill Country and Holmmade recurves. Both great bows.


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## kgsmith1960 (Dec 27, 2018)

So far it's Blacktail and Wes Wallace for me but there are many that I have not tried yet.


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## btsteelman (Apr 13, 2018)

There are too many great brands out there to name, it’s all going to come down to what each individual prefers.


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## dtb (Jun 11, 2018)

Personal preference, hunting, 3-D, competitive target archery, all three, in what order? Aesthetics, draw length, hunting method, i.e. ground blinds, tree stands or spot and stalk. Although I don't own one I have been impressed with Centaur longbows. Jim Neaves has a very loyal bunch of Centaur longbow (hybrid) users that rave about its craftsmanship, lack of hand shock, quietness... Now he has just announced a new Super Curve with the same riser and handle of his longbows and carbon recurve limbs with same carbon configuration as his triple carbon elite longbows but even better performance. Might want to check Centaur Archery out but be aware there's a long wait to get a custom build. Used Centaur longbows appear occasionally in the classifieds.


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## Roof_Korean (Dec 19, 2018)

Easykeeper said:


> A good ILF riser and limbs is definitely the most versatile bow for someone new to stickbows, and many find that is the best bow for them over anything else.
> 
> The thing is, there are lots of flavors of stickbow and the only real way to know what you like is to start trying them. Just about anything shows up in the classified for about one half to two thirds of the new price, and once that initial depreciation is done they hold their value very well. I've bought most of my recurves used, some I've kept and others I've sold for about what I paid for them. Shipping is usually the only money you are out.
> 
> ...


I had never heard of blacktails until i saw this post. Holy **** those are beautiful bows, i think you have ruined other traditional recurves for me.


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

Roof_Korean said:


> I had never heard of blacktails until i saw this post. Holy **** those are beautiful bows, i think you have ruined other traditional recurves for me.


Yeah...no kidding eh? I have 35, 55 & 65lb limbs for my Satori but the bow I shoot every day it's not raining is this one. My fetish bow. https://www.blacktailbows.com/store...tooled_arm_guard_(64",_45#[email protected]_28")_-_SOLD.html


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## YamahaYG68 (Jun 11, 2018)

Yamaha YG68

Just joking :wink:

For me, it comes under the category;

"The best bow is the one that feels right to you. Not a specific brand name or price."

This one is approx. 47 years old, don't think these one piece Yamaha's were made after the mid 1970's.

If they still made them the way this one was made, I'd buy another one, but I expect it would be costly.


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## wgluv2hunt (Mar 12, 2019)

You all should check out stalker stick bows. Absolutely unmatched craftsmanship and beauty.


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## HonkAddict (Oct 18, 2011)

wgluv2hunt said:


> You all should check out stalker stick bows. Absolutely unmatched craftsmanship and beauty.


Just ordered a Coyote longbow. 60" 60#@27. Grey action wood and black phenolic. But then I went to Black Widow and bought a Greybark PL [email protected] 62" take down... Ya know something to shoot until South finishes my Coyote lol.









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## wgluv2hunt (Mar 12, 2019)

HonkAddict said:


> Just ordered a Coyote longbow. 60" 60#@27. Grey action wood and black phenolic. But then I went to Black Widow and bought a Greybark PL [email protected] 62" take down... Ya know something to shoot until South finishes my Coyote lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You won’t be disappointed. South is a great man to boot.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Bruce, I just read your post from Feb 3 where you talked about your lesson and returning to instinctive. You have to keep in mind that learning takes time. One reason instinctive is popular with folks is that they get instant gratification, but you eventually reach a point where stop getting better and you end up living with inconsistency. I remember that in the beginning. I would get in a zone and the arrows would go in the middle. I realized I was shooting pure instinctive. However the results were an illusion. I could lose the zone as quickly and easily as I found it. A repeatable shot cycle must be learned, and reinforced until you are comfortable with it. It needs to be ingrained in your muscle memory. That could take months, or years, but you will be getting better along the way. I used to not be able to hold very long. If I did my shot would fall apart. After a lot of work the situation is reversed. I can hold comfortably and get through my shot cycle without my form breaking down. Learning is a matter of where you want to go, and your commitment to get there. It is not about instant results. It is an investment. Choose a way. You have found someone to teach you. Now trust that the process will make you better even when it seems like you don't know what you are doing. You have to be willing to get worse if you are going to get better.


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> Bruce, I just read your post from Feb 3 where you talked about your lesson and returning to instinctive. You have to keep in mind that learning takes time. One reason instinctive is popular with folks is that they get instant gratification, but you eventually reach a point where stop getting better and you end up living with inconsistency. I remember that in the beginning. I would get in a zone and the arrows would go in the middle. I realized I was shooting pure instinctive. However the results were an illusion. I could lose the zone as quickly and easily as I found it. A repeatable shot cycle must be learned, and reinforced until you are comfortable with it. It needs to be ingrained in your muscle memory. That could take months, or years, but you will be getting better along the way. I used to not be able to hold very long. If I did my shot would fall apart. After a lot of work the situation is reversed. I can hold comfortably and get through my shot cycle without my form breaking down. Learning is a matter of where you want to go, and your commitment to get there. It is not about instant results. It is an investment. Choose a way. You have found someone to teach you. Now trust that the process will make you better even when it seems like you don't know what you are doing. You have to be willing to get worse if you are going to get better.



If true, that sucks. :sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:


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## GCook (Aug 22, 2016)

Yeah I don't buy that Hank. If that were true there would be no long term instintive/intuitive shooters and that's just not the case. 
What is sad is folks who criticize it just because they can't do it. 

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## GCook (Aug 22, 2016)

HonkAddict said:


> Just ordered a Coyote longbow. 60" 60#@27. Grey action wood and black phenolic. But then I went to Black Widow and bought a Greybark PL [email protected] 62" take down... Ya know something to shoot until South finishes my Coyote lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like the lines on that one.

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## triumph (Dec 24, 2009)

Tons to choose but I am happy with my 4 Widows


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