# Stolid Bull Black Thunder ILF Riser Review



## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

Your ad was the first time I had come across the brand name "Stolid Bull" and I thought the "stolid" had to be a typo as it has some connotations I don't associate with bows. Reading your review I can see how "stolid" would appeal to a German trying to capture his design philosophy with an English word. Beautiful bow!


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## J-Shooter (Jul 12, 2007)

No disrespect to Holger, but I was under the impression he didn't design the Black Thunder. 

I thought he acquired the company a few years back and sometime later added the Vanquish? I seem to remember Stolid Bull was producing the Black Thunder and Attaco during the 2000's but they weren't easily available until Holger came into the picture and started sharing his knowledge and products with a number of American forums. 

Perhaps I'm wrong. Do you have any info? I'm just trying to clarify my understanding of this little piece of archery history.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Mark Talley said:


> Your ad was the first time I had come across the brand name "Stolid Bull" and I thought the "stolid" had to be a typo as it has some connotations I don't associate with bows. Reading your review I can see how "stolid" would appeal to a German trying to capture his design philosophy with an English word. Beautiful bow!


Thank You! 



J-Shooter said:


> No disrespect to Holger, but I was under the impression he didn't design the Black Thunder.
> 
> I thought he acquired the company a few years back and sometime later added the Vanquish? I seem to remember Stolid Bull was producing the Black Thunder and Attaco during the 2000's but they weren't easily available until Holger came into the picture and started sharing his knowledge and products with a number of American forums.
> 
> Perhaps I'm wrong. Do you have any info? I'm just trying to clarify my understanding of this little piece of archery history.


You Sir apparently know way more than I regarding the backstory and history of Holger...his Bow Co. and?...specific model history.

I on the other hand?...am but a pup deep in ancient woods where my knowledge of anything BB is but a few years old and not my primary venue but do find myself attracted to all walks of archery.

That said?...my review above is a humbly submitted summation of my personal thoughts and presumed understanding after reading through the Stolid Bull website where there simply didn't seem to be any "ABOUT" tabs to click on...but when I clicked on the "F.A.Q." link?...found myself impressed with several of Holgers explanations of mindset and doctrines particularly this one...(but all while presuming they were his own words)

*Why are Stolid Bull risers so heavy?

We strongly believe that a riser should have some weight to achieve maximum stiffness and maximum stability during release.
Well, for example a Black Thunder weighs around 2.300 grams equipped with a bare bow weight and that IS heavy.
On the other hand every recurve archer mounts stabilizers onto his or her bow and equips it perhaps with additional weights to achieve maximum stability during release. Very often the total weight of such a fully equipped recurve goes well above 2.000 grams.
A bare bow archers perhaps buys a riser which weighs 1.300 -1.400 grams and mounts bare bow weights onto it with additional 600 grams or more. Why? They want to achieve more stability of the riser during release.
In both cases the risers are quite lightweight with the intrinsic problem that filigree constructions are often prone to stability problems. Why buy a lightweight but potentially unstable riser and then add additional weight onto it?
We decided to construct our risers directly with more mass integrated into the riser and be sure that we can deliver maximum stability even for the most powerful limbs available.
So, be sure: Our risers are no toys, they are tools.*

as a lifelong aerospace machinist where most of my work was military R&D working alongside some of our nations best engineers?...I found myself impressed.

I'm not "In The Loop" so to speak where "BB Circuit Competition Shooters" are concerned so there's much locker room chat I'm not privy too...I'm just a backyard hack who loves all breeds of bows but by all means?...feel free to share your knowledge here and educate me if not many.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

J-Shooter said:


> No disrespect to Holger, but I was under the impression he didn't design the Black Thunder.
> 
> I thought he acquired the company a few years back and sometime later added the Vanquish? I seem to remember Stolid Bull was producing the Black Thunder and Attaco during the 2000's but they weren't easily available until Holger came into the picture and started sharing his knowledge and products with a number of American forums.
> 
> Perhaps I'm wrong. Do you have any info? I'm just trying to clarify my understanding of this little piece of archery history.


You are indeed correct. Holger has refined it a bit and added an ilf option as well now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LuisLeon (Feb 23, 2015)

Nice review Jinks very informative and entertaining. I also saw the video where you chrono the kstorms. I appreciate that you put your thoughts out on so many rigs. That said, am currently awaiting the arrival of 28# medium kstorms. Can't wait to try them. Your opinion and others helped sway me towards the kstorms. So thank you.


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## J-Shooter (Jul 12, 2007)

JINKSTER said:


> as a lifelong aerospace machinist where most of my work was military R&D working alongside some of our nations best engineers?...I found myself impressed.
> 
> I'm not "In The Loop" so to speak where "BB Circuit Competition Shooters" are concerned so there's much locker room chat I'm not privy too...I'm just a backyard hack who loves all breeds of bows but by all means?...feel free to share your knowledge here and educate me if not many.


Jinks, 
I went and read some of his thoughts in the FAQ and "Bare bow thoughts" page of his website before I posted. When I read his info, its clear he has put more quality thought into barebow shooting than I ever have or likely ever will, lol. He's also done a good job participating on the forums in a professional way. 

Thanks for the review, it's good to get info on some of the less common manufacturers.


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## Stolid Bull (Oct 4, 2012)

Thank you, Jinkster, for the nice review.

Bigjono, you are right. The original design is from Jürgen Vollmann, who started Stolid Bull in 2000 with the Black Thunder (now BT classic) with bolt-on limbs.
When I took over the Business from him, we exchanged our thoughts about what was already in the design and what should be in it in my opinion. The result can be seen in the BT ILF.
A bit more "lightweight", more modern design, ILF-compatibility, greatly improved surface and appearance.
I constantly work on the risers together with the guys who do the milling for me. The changes are minor, though, because the design of the BT is already very well.
Some changes, I do not announce very loudly, because I sometimes forget to advertise my products 
So, at the moment, I am selling V2 of the BT ILF series. The changes are not very obvious, but important. Sleeker around the thumb side of the grip to allow more variations of grip geometries, improved riser stability (if that is possible) from a slightly modified milling scheme between shelf and vertical part of the shooting window. V2 is completely downward compatible concerning spare parts and accessories.
Holger


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## Stolid Bull (Oct 4, 2012)

Jinkster, I as written via email before, I like the Kaya KStorm very much, too. A very good combination with the BT.
I am looking forward shooting at the German 3D masters with my pair of KStorm medium 36#.
I won't be with a Black Thunder, though, but with a Vanquish SX.
As we say in Germany: I suffer the pain of having a choice (between different risers).


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

LuisLeon said:


> Nice review Jinks very informative and entertaining. I also saw the video where you chrono the kstorms. I appreciate that you put your thoughts out on so many rigs. That said, am currently awaiting the arrival of 28# medium kstorms. Can't wait to try them. Your opinion and others helped sway me towards the kstorms. So thank you.


You're very welcome Luis...it was quite literally "my pleasure"....(and my passion)...and I believe you will be thrilled with the KStorms...where Holgers testament to the same (below) should make your confidence soar.

In the past year I might imagine I ran not less than two dozen different bow configurations across the beams of my chronograph ranging from wood lam recurves and a variety of different type longbows too several different well thought of ILF risers such as an original 21' DAS Elite,...25" W&W InnoMax...19" Gillo Ghost,...27" Gillo G1 and now the Stolid Bull Black Thunder ILF and every one of them with a variety of ILF limbs including Hoyt F7's...W&W ExPowers,...Gillo Ghost Limbs,...Robertfishes Customs,...both Med. & Long W&W RCX100's,...Border HEX7.5's,..and now?...these KStorms and?....

Through it all?...outside of wood lam bows seeming to need about 10#'s more DW to equal the performance of Modern ILF Offerings?...the two primary things I learned were...

*Important Thing #1:* When it comes to "Arrow Velocity"?...while some of the more radical limb profiles will perfrom best with heavier GPP arrows and some benefits can be seen there via "Down-Range Carry"?...(which seems to come at no small cost to "Forgiveness & Tuna-Ability")...it seems there's truly is...

*"No Free Lunch"*

where for me?..it boils down more too...*"What I Want IN a Limb"*...rather than...*What Sort Of Velocity I Get OUT Of a Limb"*...as the latter nearly seems inconsequential which brings me too...

*Important Thing #2:* Where I've learned that my shooting accuracy benefits from "Increased Stability" far more so than from "Increased Velocity"...as while I discover the velocity differences between different limb sets are "Minimal At Best"?..."The Differences In Stability"?....vary greatly and as a result?...I place far more value on how stable my limbs are rather than any numbers off a chronograph as they have been reduced too "Insignificant Status" as compared to "Limb Stabilty".

And this "Limb Stability"?...(along with the huge differences I detect between the different limb sets)...readily reveals itself when I head out back with a quiver of 5 bare shafts where if I struggle to hit tuned flight and then get shot-to-shot variances in that flight?...this to me indicates "In-Stability"...but when at least 3-4 out of the 5 bare shafts are arguing for space in the same hole and even the fliers flew cleanly?...

*"That's A Stable Set Of Limbs!"* 

and such were the two sets of W&W RCX100's and?...These Kaya KStorms. 

And I now feel that the virtues of "Arrow Velocity" has lent itself more to abuse by advertisers and marketing depts. far more so than offering up any real world accuracy benefits to archers where the virtues of "Stability" seemed overshadowed by comparison yet of great value too the archer.  




J-Shooter said:


> Jinks,
> I went and read some of his thoughts in the FAQ and "Bare bow thoughts" page of his website before I posted. When I read his info, its clear he has put more quality thought into barebow shooting than I ever have or likely ever will, lol. He's also done a good job participating on the forums in a professional way.
> 
> Thanks for the review, it's good to get info on some of the less common manufacturers.


And that's because IMNSHO?...there are but two types of archery equipment purveyors out there....

1. Those who are in it for the money.

and?...

2. Those who are simply "Driven by Passion"

Where Holger is obviously the latter and not the former. 





Stolid Bull said:


> Thank you, Jinkster, for the nice review.


Don't thank me...You earned it! 



Stolid Bull said:


> Jinkster, I as written via email before, I like the Kaya KStorm very much, too. A very good combination with the BT.
> I am looking forward shooting at the German 3D masters with my pair of KStorm medium 36#.
> I won't be with a Black Thunder, though, but with a Vanquish SX.
> As we say in Germany: I suffer the pain of having a choice (between different risers).


If I were you?...I'd..."Miss The Shoot"...cause I'd still be home trying to decide! LOL! 

Thanks again, Mr. Schraeer!...for all you do!


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Whelp?...between working 1/2 day yesterday (on a Saturday morning)?...and my oldest daughters Birthday festivities happening this weekend where I threw her a rib eye steaks for everyone family dinner last night?...and suffering a couple failed attempts at administering a pristine paint job on my BB warf riser this past week?...the only thing I was looking forward to doing on my one day off this week was..."absolutely nothing"...and it didn't work out as I remembered I have some Stolid Bull shirts headed my way and a spanner that's already here to dial in the tune on the Black Thunderstorm plunger and?...

When I first attained this riser?...several folks urged me to drop the BB weight module to at least give a stab a try on this riser where truth be told?...I thought it looked just so badazz with the module (and actually appreciate such for general handling instead of a clumsy stab)...I didn't try a stab...but not wanting to shortchange myself (or this riser) and?...knowing that chances of me ever String-Walking are like nil too none?...(as I simply don't care for such)...a 12" stab suddenly made a lot of sense and especially so when I had a 12" Bomar Ultralight wasting away in a drawer but I was really creeped out at trying to imagine how this riser might look without it's BB weight module and turns out?....it's not a 1/2 bad looking riser without it either...










but of course I needed some weight specs between the two where the BB weight module weighed 12.18ozs...










Bomar Ultralight?...14.56ozs










so the Bomar was only like 2 1/2ozs more however?...where and how that weight was dispersed made a huge difference in the bows balance, behavior and tune.

This 1 3/4"group at 20yds is the best I got but?...even after all sorts of trial and error tuning moves?...I failed to get the bare shaft to group with the fletched and am still having trouble believing these .700 spine GT Ultralights are too weak for the Black Thunderstorms 35#@28" despite the arrows having very light 80gr glue-in points...as there have been other bows that sported over 40#'s where I had no problem tuning these arrows in but the best I could get with this rig?...was bare shaft 3"s right and a touch low at 20yds... 










not a bad looker with the 12" Bomar though...











But?...I'm thinking my only option now is to order up some .600 spine shafts.


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