# D-Loop, Both knots below arrow?



## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

*Reply*



practice-more said:


> Two of my friend just set up there new bows (ultraelite & proelite). They both tied their d-loops with both knots below the arrow and a tied or brass knock above. What are the advantages or disadvantages of doing it this way. I have a Pro Elite on its way, and was trying to decide how I am going to set it up.
> 
> Thanks
> Mitch
> ...


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Hello 
Speaking for my own use.Brass nocks is a no-no. Meaning it is so easy to tie a shoe string type serving knot.Why would one want to add weight to the string and use a brass nock.

First off if I was going to tie a [D] loop that way.And I have used them that way also. I would tie two serveing knots ,to knock my arrow between.Then tie my [D] loop below the bottom serving knot.

You will here guys swear that the top [D] loop knot won't work up the string.
But for one moment lets assume it did.With out the lower serving knot being used .Then the upper [D] loop knot would croud or pinch your arrow nock.

Now one benifit of useing the [D] below is it will help hold down arrow on a sm all arrow rest.

My view
Unk :darkbeer:


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

My View.
A D-Loop should be directly behind the arrow. If it is under you defeat one of the main purposes of using the loop in the first place. 
I tie a nocking point above and tie another below the arrownock. Then put one end of the loop above and one end below these.
I hope you can understand that. I wrote it and its a little confusing to me:embara:


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## practice-more (Nov 10, 2005)

*I understand*

I usderstand both of your explanations just fine. 
Top Cat. 
I know that the purpose of a D-loop is to pull from directly behind the arrow, but I think I also heard that with both below (on a hoyt) it will shoot better due to the location of center on a hoyt riser.
 I could be way off.  

One more ? to go along with this. What do you reccomend to use for tying a knock. I have heard everything from string material to .019 serving, to dental floss.

Thanks, and you help is greatly appreciated.


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

For tying a nock I have used dental floss,serving thread and old string material I save from strings I change. The serving material works real well but seeing as I am cheap,I mean frugal, I use the string material now. It works just fine.


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## silverback (Jan 20, 2005)

practice-more said:


> I usderstand both of your explanations just fine.
> Top Cat.
> I know that the purpose of a D-loop is to pull from directly behind the arrow, but I think I also heard that with both below (on a hoyt) it will shoot better due to the location of center on a hoyt riser.
> I could be way off.
> .


Couldn't you still tie the loop above and below the nock, but just move the whole thing lower?


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## ursonvs (Sep 19, 2003)

the main purpose for doing that is to provide more down pressure on the arrow to the rest. I've used this for years cause it felt natural to me since i used to a shoot off the string kinda guy when i first started archery.


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## practice-more (Nov 10, 2005)

*Anyone else*

Thanks, to all that responded.
Does anyone else have any input.


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## csteinberg (Oct 18, 2005)

I shoot my ultraelite with a brass nock on top and both knots under, it shoots great.
I wanted to try it this way because my carter release head does not swivel, so when i twist the release into my anchor all the twist is in the loop and not in the string between the knots.
I love it this way and all my bows will be set up like this.
but overall i believe it is a personal prefrence (fords vs Chevys)
Hope i can help
Chris


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## Robert Ogden (Aug 13, 2005)

*need more info on this*

i need to find a way to shorten my D.L so i was thinking a very short d-loop under the arrow this set up is for my tournament indoors bow which is a protec


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## Robert Ogden (Aug 13, 2005)

*ttt*

please!!! help iam going nuts try to find out


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## FSL (May 22, 2002)

From a recent trouble shooting seminar.......

...Caliper style releases resulted in nock travel initialy upwards and then back down....

..... Rope and conventional D- loop resulted in the nock travel initially downwards and then return to level or cam determined path

The thought was that as most bows are pulled above center that the measured load was slightly greater on the top limb and thus it drove the nock downwards upon release with the latter......

Caliper on the other hand was more to the middle of the string and this the travel was upwards, away from the release.


BTW... both were confirmed on high speed photography with the same bow

I shoot a standard D loop and have two bows set up identically, ATA, Brace, # and speed. I plan on trying the system you described on one and shooting groups and see if there is a difference betweent he two.........

I was currious as to whether outcomes might vary becuase of bow design as well.... For instance the Hoyt line, Barnsdale andRytera triad all have the hroat of the grip in the middle of the riser while Mathews, Martin, Bullet-X, Bowtech and PSE have the shelf in the middle of the riser...... Top limb loads might change outcomes on all as they would all pull at a different distance from center


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## Robert Ogden (Aug 13, 2005)

*ttt*

need more info


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

*Hey M.......*

Hey......My UltraTec and Lindsay's UltraSport both have both have the d-loop knots below the arrow with a nock above. Both bows shoot better this way. Mark's ProElite is set up that way also.....


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## LEADWORKS (Apr 6, 2006)

Hoyt bows have the arrow centershot sitting much higher than the actual dead center of the string than most other bow companies. I have a Redhead XP 35 which is made by hoyt and its centershot sits pretty high just like other Hoyt's. I can't get a good tune with a D-loop in the traditional setup of one end tied above and the other below. I have to use a brass or tied nock above the arrow, and attach my rope release below the arrow. That's what Hoyts like to get the best tune.


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## A Mess (May 21, 2005)

These are Bob Ragsdale's reasons for using a string loop. I don't see any benefit that he mentions about having the loop below. I personally wouldn't do it on a dare. Again, here are his reasons to use a loop.

1. Eliminates arrow-falloff while coming to or at full draw.
2. No need to re-nock after a let-down. 
3. Makes nocking point location less critical. 
4. Eliminates bowstring serving wear from release aid contact. 
5. Assures easier one-hand loading of arrow and release aid.
6. Releases can remain attached and ready to go. 
7. Eliminates gaps in serving from up pressure on nocking point. 
8. Controls peep sight rotation. 
9. Eliminates nock warping due to extreme arrow pinch at full draw. 
10. Allows release aids to be held at an angle rather than only level. 
11. Makes shorter length bows easier to work with. 
12. Extends maximum available sight range area with the same shooting form due to the peep now resting higher above the arrow nock. 
13. Prevents arrow from sliding down the string during the shot. 
14. Improves shoulder alignment. 
15. Loop length will modify draw length of bow.
16. Eliminates chin slap from inward swinging release aid ropes. 
17. Can be used with all non-rope release aids with few exceptions. 
18. Reduces string vibration noise.


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## Robert Ogden (Aug 13, 2005)

*so mostly hoyt bows*

i am try it with my protec and my form and draw elbow looks better 

could that be true???will i have higher score ????


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## ursonvs (Sep 19, 2003)

on hoyt bows the bows center is right in the grip, not on the berger hole like a martin shadowcat.

if you can get the drawpoint as low as possible and still have adequate fletch clearance it will help you.

there are several that use the knot below and have good results, justa few come to mind:

Nathan Brooks
Michael Braden
Clint Freeman (the loopy he calls it, a single knot d-loop)
George Ryals (uses a rope off his release cause he is a constant tinkerer:tongue: )

I have sensed my last post moved to a over/under d-loop with double tie in knots and truthfully have not gained or lessened my so called shooting skills, its mainly what you feel is comfy to you. the main reason i went to another version of d-loop is because GT pin nocks barely stay on using a under loop. I have gone but to my acc's so the large g-nocks have a deeper throat which i may go back to a under loop.

for a good explanation of d-loops read jon dudley's article about it at www.archerylearningcenter.com .


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## Robert Ogden (Aug 13, 2005)

*thanks*

any more


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