# Needing help dl/anchor issues



## tmf328 (Dec 29, 2017)

I am 6 foot tall and my draw length is 29in, well 28.8. I have been shooting 29” with a Scott shark finger release,on a diamond deploy or PSE Brute Force. I just purchased a new bowtech and a Stan perfx thumb release, my new bow d loop is 1/2 in, the neck on the release is really short so my anchor point has changed I’m trying to find new anchors. I got my nose to string and put on a kisser to help try settling in. After days of messing around I added 1/2” to my draw length, so that my anchor is back corner of jaw bone between index knuckle and middle finger,everything feels great ,and my bow seems to hold great. My elbow seems high after a lot of research What am I missing ? Should I go back to 29” dL and extend my d loop or should I try finding new anchors ?










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## tmf328 (Dec 29, 2017)

Comparing pictures of archery form my nock looks far back. this ok or does my dL have to be shorter?


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

with a new bow and release aid its gonna take sometime getting use to them . the DL. is a little long. it does look like your leaning back just a little with the loose shirt it hard to tell how much.. a release aid with a longer head would get the hand back , a longer loop will do the same but im not a fan of long loops unless you must. because the longer loops whip around and hit the arrow.. i would loose the kisser for a while till get the anchor feeling good. a pic from behind will tell if your lined up with the elbow. a lot of people think just because the bow says it is a certain DL does NOT mean that it is . some run long some short but it does sound like you know exactly what your length is... but this dl is long.. hope this helps ..mike


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

My opinion is about exactly opposite of Mike's. You are leaning back a bit but your front and back shoulders are shrugged which makes you narrower and your DL shorter. If you get stood up straight with your shoulders down, you'll likely either fit into the DL or you may find it's a bit short. 

Your grip is another immediate issue I see. You have a ton of hand on the grip meaning it's way too deep. If the valley between the muscles of your thumb and pinky finger crosses onto the grip, it's too deep and it looks to me that yours is way onto the grip. Need to rotate your bow arm clockwise so that your elbow points to your left more and so the grip rides on your thumb pad. 

Also, I don't think there's any way in Hades that a long d-loop will whip an arrow after it's loosed from the string. You can see on this ultra slow motion video that the arrow is almost completely off the bow, meaning in front of the rest/riser, before the loop comes around the front of the string. You can see it especially well on the RPM 360 on the left. https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/hunting/video-slow-mo-shootout 

Watch this video to help with your shoulders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJbu3GtfUro&t=51s

Here's a video to help with your grip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1p7mGdFNBE


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## tmf328 (Dec 29, 2017)

Thanks for the reply’s and video. I’m working on grip, Im gonna get on the shoulder issue, the 1st video is exactly how I draw. I have never tried to lower my shoulders before anchor. I have only been shooting about a year now it’s been a lot of fun, but Im wanting to tune myself as much as possible. I’m trying to sign up for league this year so hopefully I can walk away from that with some good knowledge also.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6DHgel0OyA well the first video on top of the y-tube i see this .looks pretty clear that this loop is smacking the nock. im not saying that ALL DO i have seen the LARGER ones do this:embara:and im not a fan of anything hitting my arrows..thats why i suggest a longer head on the release aid to get the hand back where it feels comfy... the shirt seems to add to the picture its hard to tell. yes he does look he has no neck. and any one can tell hes got to much hand in the bow.so if he rotates his hand what happens to the dl? but the question was; he added 1/2 inch to the dl.. to get the anchor where he likes it..and he said it feels good. is the dl long.??.. and the pics show yes it is . but you dont agree..thats cool its your opinion...in the pic his shoulders look even but the shirt might be puffed up..look at his sleeves they are way back to. yes it might push some.yes it might... he needs a TIGHT shirt to settle that. at least you agree hes leaning back some.


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## tmf328 (Dec 29, 2017)

mike 66 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6DHgel0OyA well the first video on top of the y-tube i see this .looks pretty clear that this loop is smacking the nock. im not saying that ALL DO i have seen the LARGER ones do this:embara:and im not a fan of anything hitting my arrows..thats why i suggest a longer head on the release aid to get the hand back where it feels comfy... the shirt seems to add to the picture its hard to tell. yes he does look he has no neck. and any one can tell hes got to much hand in the bow.so if he rotates his hand what happens to the dl? but the question was; he added 1/2 inch to the dl.. to get the anchor where he likes it..and he said it feels good. is the dl long.??.. and the pics show yes it is . but you dont agree..thats cool its your opinion...in the pic his shoulders look even but the shirt might be puffed up..look at his sleeves they are way back to. yes it might push some.yes it might... he needs a TIGHT shirt to settle that. at least you agree hes leaning back some.


I’m gonna try getting another pic up tonight. I took off the kisser like you said and really started to feel for a nice anchor. I will be trying anything recommend 


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mike 66 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6DHgel0OyA well the first video on top of the y-tube i see this .looks pretty clear that this loop is smacking the nock. im not saying that ALL DO i have seen the LARGER ones do this:embara:and im not a fan of anything hitting my arrows..thats why i suggest a longer head on the release aid to get the hand back where it feels comfy... the shirt seems to add to the picture its hard to tell. yes he does look he has no neck. and any one can tell hes got to much hand in the bow.so if he rotates his hand what happens to the dl? but the question was; he added 1/2 inch to the dl.. to get the anchor where he likes it..and he said it feels good. is the dl long.??.. and the pics show yes it is . but you dont agree..thats cool its your opinion...in the pic his shoulders look even but the shirt might be puffed up..look at his sleeves they are way back to. yes it might push some.yes it might... he needs a TIGHT shirt to settle that. at least you agree hes leaning back some.


Nope. You can take that video frame by frame and see that the arrow is gone off the string and the nock is almost past the riser before the loop moves in front of the string. 

Here's the frame before the nock leaves the string. Notice the red loop in line behind the string.








Here's the very next frame and you can see that the nock has left the string. Notice where the loop still is.....in line behind the string.








Here's 4 frames later when the loop finally curls around the string. Notice how far out the arrow is.








I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just point out incorrect information to a new shooter. I'm not one that can overlook stuff like that, no matter who says it's so. It's basic physics really. The arrow/nock is in front of the string and the loop is behind it. The arrow, string and loop are accelerating at the same rate. The point at which the nock leaves the string, the string is still traveling forwards meaning that the loop is still behind the string though it has started to decelerate. The string and loop decelerate at a much higher rate because they're attached at the ends where as the arrow only has wind resistance to overcome meaning it decelerates at a much slower rate. Only when the string has decelerated enough that the loop can pass it, will the loop curl around the string, by that time the nock is well away from the string/loop and will not be contacted. Longer loops will take longer to curl around the string so the length doesn't matter.

Make your loop as long as you need to get the form/anchor/result you want and don't worry about the nock being hit because it simply won't happen. 

The rest of the information we gleaned from the photo is somewhat subjective but I'm pretty confident in my assessment.


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## tmf328 (Dec 29, 2017)

Huntinsker said:


> Nope. You can take that video frame by frame and see that the arrow is gone off the string and the nock is almost past the riser before the loop moves in front of the string.
> 
> Here's the frame before the nock leaves the string. Notice the red loop in line behind the string.
> View attachment 6358381
> ...


Ok thanks


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMBe2kJMyo maybe you should watch this.. you will notice at or about .38 it shows a loop smacking arrow nock. yes it does happen .


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mike 66 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMBe2kJMyo maybe you should watch this.. you will notice at or about .38 it shows a loop smacking arrow nock. yes it does happen .


What you're seeing there is only at 1200 frames per second. That's not fast enough to actually catch what's going on and there are digital artifacts that make things look different than reality. This is the frame you're talking about. Unless that nock is some how stretching longer or it's actually 3" long, the arrow is actually long gone before the loop comes around. 









What's causing it to look like that is the relatively low frame rate, as far as high speed footage is concerned, and the type of shutter on the camera. Some cameras have rolling shutters that move across the viewing field so that certain parts of the image are saved before the others. This makes things look bent, elongated, blurry or it can do other weird things to images. Here's a little reading material for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter

If you do a google search of "rolling shutter effect" there's some pretty cool examples.

Look I'm not trying to be a jerk about this but it's simple physics. This will never happen. It won't. You can look at videos all you want but you will never have a d-loop that is behind a bowstring hit an object, an arrow/nock, that is in front of a bow string. It simply can not happen that a d-loop will accelerate at a higher rate than the string/arrow. They are traveling at the same rate and unless acted upon by a secondary outside force, the d-loop will continue at that same rate until the point at which it starts to decelerate. By that time the arrow is already gone because it decelerates several thousand times slower. The arrow can travel several hundred yards while the loop/string only travel a couple inches at most before stopping. No way a d-loop out runs the arrow.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

well i thought you would come up with some something but digital artifacts gee whizz look at 134 frame it shows the loop smacking the nock then swings back after it hits..blame this on the shutter lol


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mike 66 said:


> well i thought you would come up with some something but digital artifacts gee whizz look at 134 frame it shows the loop smacking the nock then swings back after it hits..blame this on the shutter lol


Mike if that weren't a digital artifact, who in the world is that nock so long? Fact is, you're wrong. You don't understand basic physics and you can't come up with an example to support your claim. I've supplied evidence to support mine and all you can do is try to discredit it with "lol". Pretty weak "argument".

Here's a screen shot from this video showing it again. These PSE videos were filmed at 3200fps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL-zY2255kE

PSE Decree on the left and the NoCam on the right. Both nocks are well away from the loop.








This one's an Elite Synergy from this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aweYka81nWA&t=111s









Here's Jim Burnsworth's Bowtech in this video at 2700fps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJoTXRQNDPA On a side note, look at the horrible cable serving wear he has going on at the roller :mg:









If you want to watch those videos and see for yourself you should. I'd suggest you watch them in at 1/4 speed though so you can really see it happen. On Youtube, in the bottom right hand corner of the video screen is the settings icon, looks like a little gear or cog. Click that and go to "speed" and click "0.25". You can jump to the time signature on my screen shots if you want to speed the process. You may learn something by watching.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

well i have had enough of your trolling .you sir are wrong.and not man enough to admit it. the pic i posted shows im right. if the loop were as i said xx long NOT THE ONE SHOWN, like i said it IS POSSIBLE , AND IT WOULD BE ON THE ARROW. any one with common sense could see that. as far as simple physics is B.S there are to many things that can happen. the limbs how many pounds , the cams hard soft, string, serving, the nock itself being x tight?. the arrow itself. the fl etching many different kinds. and the target itself. dont forget those string stops..... and the target itself..simple physics B.S. if you take a 40 lb bow with soft cams.add a whisker biscuit. with a small hole add a xxx shaft with 4 inches of spiro flu/flu and a XX LARGE d-loop with no string stops with a close target.. its gonna get hit...simple common sense. for you to say its not possible go try shooting this once..lol.i stand by what i said IT IS POSSIBLE. SO JERK IM CALLING YOU OUT.. you prove your right..lol prove it...no more crud..PROVE YOU RIGHT .. my examples prove it is possible WITH A XXLONG LOOP. your wrong. choke on it.i got both hammers cocked, im loaded for bear. and i got a royal flush up my sleeve... PROVE YOUR RIGHT.OR LEAVE.QUIT YOUR TROLLING.LMAO ............. TO TMF328 sir i do apologize for this guys mouth , this place once was full of pros, and many nice people unfortunately this is not the case now.i hate that this happened so im offering you  a FREE day of training.good any time in 2018.i guarantee you will be better when you leave and have more knowledge .we can have a beer after and get a good lol at the troll. i dont offer on line training.but i do recommend [email protected] bolts hes a local on here and is very nice and he helps archers on line. he to gets trolled and he seems to hold it better than i do... and if you ask nice im sure he would help. i very seldom use this tone on here but this is a prime example why the pros dont post.. and MANY people dont post because of guys like this.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

mike 66 said:


> well i have had enough of your trolling .you sir are wrong.and not man enough to admit it. the pic i posted shows im right. if the loop were as i said xx long NOT THE ONE SHOWN, like i said it IS POSSIBLE , AND IT WOULD BE ON THE ARROW. any one with common sense could see that. as far as simple physics is B.S there are to many things that can happen. the limbs how many pounds , the cams hard soft, string, serving, the nock itself being x tight?. the arrow itself. the fl etching many different kinds. and the target itself. dont forget those string stops..... and the target itself..simple physics B.S. if you take a 40 lb bow with soft cams.add a whisker biscuit. with a small hole add a xxx shaft with 4 inches of spiro flu/flu and a XX LARGE d-loop with no string stops with a close target.. its gonna get hit...simple common sense. for you to say its not possible go try shooting this once..lol.i stand by what i said IT IS POSSIBLE. SO JERK IM CALLING YOU OUT.. you prove your right..lol prove it...no more crud..PROVE YOU RIGHT .. my examples prove it is possible WITH A XXLONG LOOP. your wrong. choke on it.i got both hammers cocked, im loaded for bear. and i got a royal flush up my sleeve... PROVE YOUR RIGHT.OR LEAVE.QUIT YOUR TROLLING.LMAO ............. TO TMF328 sir i do apologize for this guys mouth , this place once was full of pros, and many nice people unfortunately this is not the case now.i hate that this happened so im offering you a FREE day of training.good any time in 2018.i guarantee you will be better when you leave and have more knowledge .we can have a beer after and get a good lol at the troll. i dont offer on line training.but i do recommend [email protected] bolts hes a local on here and is very nice and he helps archers on line. he to gets trolled and he seems to hold it better than i do... and if you ask nice im sure he would help. i very seldom use this tone on here but this is a prime example why the pros dont post.. and MANY people dont post because of guys like this.


Wow. Guess I touched a nerve. You may need to sit down a while so you don't stroke out. If you think you're right then I'm obviously not going to change your mind. Even with evidence I guess. I showed video evidence, explained the simple physics behind it and all you've done is say that you're right and that's how you know. I guess you can't present facts to some people because they'll deny them every time. 

I suggest if you like N&B so much, ask him if a d-loop, in any normal situation, will hit a nock if it's long enough. See what he says.

Hey Mike. I started a thread in the General section asking what others think. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll learn something from someone who's better able to explain your stance for you. Here it is if you're interested. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5358207&p=1106971729#post1106971729


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## Gamover06 (Aug 20, 2014)

Seriously. D loop hits the arrow. You have got to be kidding me. That is absolutely impossible. So the D loop doesn't rotate until after the nock has left the string and you think there is still time for it to swing around and touch the arrow. The loop whips around becuase of the jolt back from the sting going past the cams and the arrow is already gone by that time. If d loops hit the arrow I am sure archers would not be using them becuase it would make the arrows fly inconsistent. 

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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

mike 66 said:


> well i have had enough of your trolling .you sir are wrong.and not man enough to admit it. the pic i posted shows im right. if the loop were as i said xx long NOT THE ONE SHOWN, like i said it IS POSSIBLE , AND IT WOULD BE ON THE ARROW. any one with common sense could see that. as far as simple physics is B.S there are to many things that can happen. the limbs how many pounds , the cams hard soft, string, serving, the nock itself being x tight?. the arrow itself. the fl etching many different kinds. and the target itself. dont forget those string stops..... and the target itself..simple physics B.S. if you take a 40 lb bow with soft cams.add a whisker biscuit. with a small hole add a xxx shaft with 4 inches of spiro flu/flu and a XX LARGE d-loop with no string stops with a close target.. its gonna get hit...simple common sense. for you to say its not possible go try shooting this once..lol.i stand by what i said IT IS POSSIBLE. SO JERK IM CALLING YOU OUT.. you prove your right..lol prove it...no more crud..PROVE YOU RIGHT .. my examples prove it is possible WITH A XXLONG LOOP. your wrong. choke on it.i got both hammers cocked, im loaded for bear. and i got a royal flush up my sleeve... PROVE YOUR RIGHT.OR LEAVE.QUIT YOUR TROLLING.LMAO ............. TO TMF328 sir i do apologize for this guys mouth , this place once was full of pros, and many nice people unfortunately this is not the case now.i hate that this happened so im offering you a FREE day of training.good any time in 2018.i guarantee you will be better when you leave and have more knowledge .we can have a beer after and get a good lol at the troll. i dont offer on line training.but i do recommend [email protected] bolts hes a local on here and is very nice and he helps archers on line. he to gets trolled and he seems to hold it better than i do... and if you ask nice im sure he would help. i very seldom use this tone on here but this is a prime example why the pros dont post.. and MANY people dont post because of guys like this.


How long is that? 
I plan to give this a whirl, and would rather use the length you suggest.


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## rick prather (Aug 23, 2007)

Mike 66----I think you are wrong. In more ways than one. The loop will NOT hit the nock. And even more so in post #14. No need to get all heated up.


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## Whitetip Hunter (Jul 27, 2006)

mike 66 said:


> well i have had enough of your trolling .you sir are wrong.and not man enough to admit it. the pic i posted shows im right. if the loop were as i said xx long NOT THE ONE SHOWN, like i said it IS POSSIBLE , AND IT WOULD BE ON THE ARROW. any one with common sense could see that. as far as simple physics is B.S there are to many things that can happen. the limbs how many pounds , the cams hard soft, string, serving, the nock itself being x tight?. the arrow itself. the fl etching many different kinds. and the target itself. dont forget those string stops..... and the target itself..simple physics B.S. if you take a 40 lb bow with soft cams.add a whisker biscuit. with a small hole add a xxx shaft with 4 inches of spiro flu/flu and a XX LARGE d-loop with no string stops with a close target.. its gonna get hit...simple common sense. for you to say its not possible go try shooting this once..lol.i stand by what i said IT IS POSSIBLE. SO JERK IM CALLING YOU OUT.. you prove your right..lol prove it...no more crud..PROVE YOU RIGHT .. my examples prove it is possible WITH A XXLONG LOOP. your wrong. choke on it.i got both hammers cocked, im loaded for bear. and i got a royal flush up my sleeve... PROVE YOUR RIGHT.OR LEAVE.QUIT YOUR TROLLING.LMAO .............  TO TMF328 sir i do apologize for this guys mouth , this place once was full of pros, and many nice people unfortunately this is not the case now.i hate that this happened so im offering you a FREE day of training.good any time in 2018.i guarantee you will be better when you leave and have more knowledge .we can have a beer after and get a good lol at the troll. i dont offer on line training.but i do recommend [email protected] bolts hes a local on here and is very nice and he helps archers on line. he to gets trolled and he seems to hold it better than i do... and if you ask nice im sure he would help. i very seldom use this tone on here but this is a prime example why the pros dont post.. and MANY people dont post because of guys like this.


After reading this YOU COULDN'T PAY ME ENOUGH TO LET YOU "TRAIN" ME. The nock will never hit the arrow. Even with you example with the WB rest purposely holding the arrow back from going forward and the MONSTER fluflus trying to stop the arrow in your example. Actually at the point the nock releases from the string it actually PULLS the string some. Try pulling off an arrow. The string gets pulled the direction of arrow travel.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

mike 66 said:


> .... TO TMF328 .... im offering you a FREE day of training.good any time in 2018.i guarantee you will be better when you leave and have more knowledge .....


TMF328, if you can possibly make the trip, you'd be smart to take Mike up on this. He knows archery. He's a great guy too.

Allen


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

There are many things that I'm not smart enough to quickly understand but there are also many things that are simple to understand. A d-loop swinging around and hitting a nock is impossible if a d-loop is used in a typical fashion. Maybe it could happen but it seems that we would have to _make _it happen as opposed to simply using a d-loop in a typical fashion. :BangHead:

The only way I could see it happening is with the string at brace the d-loop is rotated around and pointing at the rest. Basically it's pointing in the opposite direction of where it should be. As we nock the arrow we rotate the d-loop such that it "winds" the string. We hook up our release such that the d-loop "winds" the string more. The nock fits on the string serving loosely. As we draw the bow the string is so crummy that somehow it "winds" itself even more tightly. When we release the d-loop the string is so tightly wound that the d-loop spins back to where it started hitting the nock before the string hits it's "stop" and the nock disconnects from the string and gets out of range of the spinning d-loop. In my opinion, the only way the d-loop hits the nock is in an extremely unusual situation_ if at all possible_. Maybe we would need to use an extremely heavy arrow, an extremely slow bow and an extremely torqued tight string that recovers very quickly. The d-loop would most likely have to be cinched extremely tight to the string.

Slow motion cameras can easily prove or disprove if a "theory" is likely true or false..


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

mike 66 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMBe2kJMyo maybe you should watch this.. you will notice at or about .38 it shows a loop smacking arrow nock. yes it does happen .


I'd bet good money that in the above clip the d-loop doesn't come close to hitting the nock.

i expect that the d-loop and string really start "twisting" until after teh force being applied to the nock by the strign is removed, i.e. the nock no longer has contact with the string, at that point the string/d-loop spins as it aggressively decelerates. The d-loop will have to rotate around and get to the nock before it's out of range. A long d-loop would take longer to rotate since it will weigh more AND the tip of it will be bent back ward if it spins fast. 

I expect we could _make _ a d-loop hit a nock but in the above footage I'm certain the d-loop does not hit the nock.

This may be one of things that "back in the day" it could or did happen on very rare occasions but was thought to happen much more than it actually did. D-loops weren't _often _used until compound bows were quite fast.


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## MAD 6 (Nov 8, 2015)

This guy is a coach? Lots of laughs, the D loop does not hit the Nock at any speed


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## jdoc (Jul 31, 2012)

Sorry mike, you are just plain wrong. The laws of physics just don't lie when it comes to force and acceleration.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

I tried about all there was to try. 
I finally got contact with a GT XXX, through a medium biscuit, 50#, 1 3/4 loop, tied at 90 degrees from the string. 

In other words, I had to work real hard to make this happen.


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## bgreenlee (Sep 16, 2014)

Before you go and change draw length further I would really suggest working on your grip, stance and form. I would start by working on the rear anchor point. It looks low to me, which is likely going to cause fletch to face interference for you, at least if you are standing upright and not leaning into your string. I like to see the fletch pass between the chin and bottom lip so there is less chance for interference from the chin. I think you might be able to get the release to sit better in your hand, and feel longer, if you allowed it to sit between your two finger joints, instead of so buried in your fist. I like for the back of my hand and the first part of my fingers to be in a straight line along my face and the plane if forms pointing toward the target. That will allow your arm to come back some, your hand can come up and align better with your mouth, and you will be able to release your elbow down some. If the release is still a little short, a slightly longer D-loop will help. And don't worry if you lengthen it a bit, if somehow it does make contact with the nock, you can adjust draw length a little and shorten it back up later. Honestly, I have shot long d-loops and never had issues with the loop hitting, but I also shoot bows with lower speeds, longer brace heights, and longer ATA's. 

After you are comfortable with the anchor point start trying to get your form corrected. I would start with the bow hand. You have a lot of hand on the bow, so torque will be a fight. You want the fingers on the bow hand to angle down at around a 45 degree angle to the floor. And your fingers shouldn't be wrapped around the riser. Allow the riser to lay along the meaty part of your thumb, with the hand fully relaxed before you start to draw. Focus on keeping the hand relaxed through the draw, if you build tension in your forearm or hand you will likely have torque problems. 

Then start working at getting your shoulders down and bow arm extended and level with your shoulders. They may both occur at the same time, just push on the riser like you are pushing it towards the target instead of holding it away from your body. I think if you get your shoulders and bow arm on the same plane you will steady up and reduce the amount of effort it takes to shoot your bow. You will start to notice that you are shifting the holding weight off the arm muscles and into the back muscles, which makes it a lot easier to shoot accurately, especially if you are shooting several arrows each session. If it has to become a conscious effort to get the shoulders down, pull them down before coming to anchor. The movement of coming to anchor should really be driven from tension in the back muscles and not manipulated with the muscles in the arm. 

I wouldn't try to make all the changes at once. I would get my anchor situated first and relocate your peep and kisser button, then if its obvious that your draw length is way off, make a rough adjustment to it. Then start on the other items one at a time. Some changes may feel weird for a while, but you want to develop the proper shooting form so you are not fighting it later down the road when muscle memory is hard to overcome. When you get close you can start making the fine adjustments to draw length, peep height, etc.


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## tmf328 (Dec 29, 2017)

bgreenlee said:


> Before you go and change draw length further I would really suggest working on your grip, stance and form. I would start by working on the rear anchor point. It looks low to me, which is likely going to cause fletch to face interference for you, at least if you are standing upright and not leaning into your string. I like to see the fletch pass between the chin and bottom lip so there is less chance for interference from the chin. I think you might be able to get the release to sit better in your hand, and feel longer, if you allowed it to sit between your two finger joints, instead of so buried in your fist. I like for the back of my hand and the first part of my fingers to be in a straight line along my face and the plane if forms pointing toward the target. That will allow your arm to come back some, your hand can come up and align better with your mouth, and you will be able to release your elbow down some. If the release is still a little short, a slightly longer D-loop will help. And don't worry if you lengthen it a bit, if somehow it does make contact with the nock, you can adjust draw length a little and shorten it back up later. Honestly, I have shot long d-loops and never had issues with the loop hitting, but I also shoot bows with lower speeds, longer brace heights, and longer ATA's.
> 
> After you are comfortable with the anchor point start trying to get your form corrected. I would start with the bow hand. You have a lot of hand on the bow, so torque will be a fight. You want the fingers on the bow hand to angle down at around a 45 degree angle to the floor. And your fingers shouldn't be wrapped around the riser. Allow the riser to lay along the meaty part of your thumb, with the hand fully relaxed before you start to draw. Focus on keeping the hand relaxed through the draw, if you build tension in your forearm or hand you will likely have torque problems.
> 
> ...


Bgreenlee 
Thanks for the post I really appreciate you being informative, about the topic. This week I’ve been working on my hand grip , my 20yard spots usually stays is the 9 ring most of the time 8;10. I’m starting league this week with my son. Saterday or Monday I’m drop bow off to be tuned and I will re set my peep and kisser at the shop. I know I have a long road ahead of me but this is my only hobby. Oh and I am struggling getting off the shot weather it holding release wrong , high shoulder, tense muscles, are all the above, I’ll learn what I can between here and the pro shop. Dropping dL back to 29 and changinging dloop length to get different anchor feels is what I been trying.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

tmf328 said:


> Bgreenlee
> Thanks for the post I really appreciate you being informative, about the topic. This week I’ve been working on my hand grip , my 20yard spots usually stays is the 9 ring most of the time 8;10. I’m starting league this week with my son. Saterday or Monday I’m drop bow off to be tuned and I will re set my peep and kisser at the shop. I know I have a long road ahead of me but this is my only hobby. Oh and I am struggling getting off the shot weather it holding release wrong , high shoulder, tense muscles, are all the above, I’ll learn what I can between here and the pro shop. Dropping dL back to 29 and changinging dloop length to get different anchor feels is what I been trying.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you're using the Perfx and having trouble getting it to fire, you may watch this video starting at the 4:40 marks. Dan McCarthy goes over how he shoots his thumb trigger. It's also the way I found was best for me. Your mileage may vary but it's a pretty easy way to do it once you get your tension and trigger position figured out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1hpKacIRI&list=WL&index=5&t=284s For me, the most important part of shooting the thumb trigger like this was getting the thumb peg in the exact right position and the trigger tension so that I could get a consistent shot timing that wasn't too fast or too slow. If you can find that, this method works really well because you're just using back tension and pulling straight back. Nothing too it once you figure it out.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

tmf328 said:


> Bgreenlee
> Thanks for the post I really appreciate you being informative, about the topic. This week I’ve been working on my hand grip , my 20yard spots usually stays is the 9 ring most of the time 8;10. I’m starting league this week with my son. Saterday or Monday I’m drop bow off to be tuned and I will re set my peep and kisser at the shop. I know I have a long road ahead of me but this is my only hobby. Oh and I am struggling getting off the shot weather it holding release wrong , high shoulder, tense muscles, are all the above, I’ll learn what I can between here and the pro shop. Dropping dL back to 29 and changinging dloop length to get different anchor feels is what I been trying.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you're using the Perfx and having trouble getting it to fire, you may watch this video starting at the 4:40 marks. Dan McCarthy goes over how he shoots his thumb trigger. It's also the way I found was best for me. Your mileage may vary but it's a pretty easy way to do it once you get your tension and trigger position figured out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1hpKacIRI&list=WL&index=5&t=284s For me, the most important part of shooting the thumb trigger like this was getting the thumb peg in the exact right position and the trigger tension so that I could get a consistent shot timing that wasn't too fast or too slow. If you can find that, this method works really well because you're just using back tension and pulling straight back. Nothing too it once you figure it out.


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## tmf328 (Dec 29, 2017)

I went and used the truball hbx for 2 days then back to the Stan no problems at all with the Stan now thanks for video 1st time at league I got 506 out 600 with everything new and sighted in that night. My 7 year old got 150out of 300 he is hooked now 


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

tmf328 said:


> I went and used the truball hbx for 2 days then back to the Stan no problems at all with the Stan now thanks for video 1st time at league I got 506 out 600 with everything new and sighted in that night. My 7 year old got 150out of 300 he is hooked now
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's good shooting for both of you. Good job getting your boy into the sport! :thumbs_up:set1_applaud:


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