# 2015 Nationals Venue - Decatur, AL (Sneak Preview)



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Since we were traveling through Nashville already, to see daughter #1, Karin and I decided to just ease a bit South on the return trip for a recon. mission to Decatur - the site of next year's Nationals. 

Nice "little" town (Little to most, but any town with a Mellow Mushroom, Starbucks and Academy sporting goods is a major town to us! ha, ha.) We spent about 2 hours visiting all the hotels and were VERY well received as soon as we mentioned archery. The managers of three of the hotels showed us around personally. Folks in Alabama are just so darn nice. It's really going to freak out some people from parts of the country where they don't say "ma'am, sir and honey"  ha, ha.

Here are some photos of the venue. Pretty amazing place really with tons of fields and lots of centralized parking. Neat features include several separate fields with a central parking area (easily allowing fields to host a single division if they wish), a really cool concession/bathroom facility, a large kid's playground, and probably the neatest disc golf course I've ever seen - through the woods with tee boxes!

From Right to Left as you first enter the complex:

1st field on the right is the ideal clout field 








Centralized parking:








Looking down at the Concessions building with long lazer-leveled field behind it:








Single bleachered field on far West end - perfect venue for finals/TV!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

More photos

Looking West from far East end:








Playground:








Concession/Bathrooms:








Looking East from far West end:


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## jwalgast (Aug 7, 2005)

John, 
Any hotel recommendations?
John


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Remember, the days will be slightly shorter in N. Alabama than they were in Ohio, and temps will be hotter. How cool would it be to shoot every evening under the lights? I'm all for that. Start my 72-arrow scoring line about 6:00 p.m., thank you


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

jwalgast said:


> John,
> Any hotel recommendations?
> John


Working on it. I'm hesitant to say too much as the room rates and host hotel are all still being negotiated. I'll just say that you will get what you pay for. We looked at about 8 different hotels from $165/night suites to $55/night rooms, and the quality was consistent with the pricing at every one. 

Me not being the hotel-type, I plan to find an alternative solution (as usual). Something like my Yurt from this year would be splendid...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

All in all, I was pretty surprised by the choices of restaurants and stores in Decatur. The stores and restaurants seem to be outpacing the hotels, at least for now, but two of the hotels are completely renovated and another (the largest in town) is being completely remodeled as I type this. It's huge (210 rooms) and right on the waterfront (but a little ways from the venue). 

I'm more than a little concerned that USArchery released the location of the venue prior to establishing a host hotel and negotiating blocks and rates, as I was told one archery coach has already blocked 20 rooms at one of the hotels we visited.  So, it will be interesting to see how that all works out. I warned several of the managers that archers are hyper-OCD and will be making reservations NOW for next year. 

Sure hope the CVB and USArchery staff can get together soon. I suspect the major hotel that is being renovated, and the date it will come on line, will have an affect on all that.

Here's some more photos from the venue:

I suspect the disc golf course will be well-used and a major hit during down-time.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

For Google Earth fans (like me):

(It's the Jack Allen Soccer Complex BTW)


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Great, generous efforts on your part, John. Many thanks.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

No sweat Larry. Knowing how a little information goes a long way with archery families, Karin and I figured it was worth the detour. Esp. when we're talking perhaps 600-700 archery families all trying to figure out a new venue. 

There is plenty to do in the area as well, esp. if you're a wildlife guy like me - with the Wheeler National Wildlife Refuge headquarters and visitor center just down the road! 

http://www.fws.gov/refuge/wheeler/

http://www.friendsofwheelerrefuge.org/events/?eventID=59&date=12/07/2013

Decatur also has a pretty nice waterfront/marina area:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Downtown area is hit or miss, but does have some nice little shops and restaurants, not the least of which is the Mellow Mushroom - by far my favorite pizza/beer restaurant of all time. We were thrilled when we discovered that little gem in the middle of town.  

If a person doesn't want to go downtown, they can find all the shopping/restaurants they need on the SW loop near the hotels and the venue. 

Traffic will NOT be an issue for most, in a town like this. Nothing at all like Cinci or even Co Springs. In fact, Decatur had better brace themselves for us. ha, ha.

Every person we met who knew about the archery event was absolutely thrilled we were coming, and was just as nice as could be. I think our members are about to get a strong dose of real Southern Hospitality next July.


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

John,
Thanks for the preview! 

I've spent the last two days looking at Google Earth shots of the location. Using the Google Earth ruler, and recognizing that the fields have nicely landscaped border areas, do you think that there is adequate space for all the canopies ??? I have to say that from what I see on the satellite photos it does not appear very promising. Adding to that, it appears that the fields all have continuous fences surrounding them with as advertised.....limited/controlled access. This of course would encumber the archers movement to and from canopies setup outside the fenced in area.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Great question. That's one of the first things Karin and I thought of... Where will all the canopies go?!?  I think the representative from Decatur CVB who was at Nationals learned quickly that is one of our needs, and they will find a way to address it. There is a fence around all the fields, so if the canopies go inside the fence, it will squeeze the field. However, most fields are plenty long to accommodate the distance plus canopies, etc. 

I measured the longest field, and if you include the field with bleachers, it's actually 60 yards longer than the field in Hamilton. And we didn't even use that whole length in Hamilton, so even if that one long field is the only one we use, it will be long enough. I can see them moving some of the JOAD lines to other fields just to expedite things though. I'd be in favor of putting the Bowmen and Cubs on their own field actually.

That one East facing-field in the middle looks like the perfect practice field. The central field will be pretty useless because there will be people in every direction. The South field by the entry would be perfect for clout and also for Bowmen/Cubs shooting to the South during the day. Little known-fact - that shooting to the South actually keeps the sun OUT of the eyes during a summer archery event, early in the day.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Pretty cool stuff in all directions, including this surprise - Point Mallard Park - that features an (wait for it...) ICE RINK! and a waterpark with a lazy river for the kids (and golf course for the duffers among us), just a few miles from the venue.

http://www.pointmallardpark.com/camp-ground.php

Thinking an RV rental and stay at this place would be a VERY popular choice with kids! Might be the first chance for many "Southerners" to ice skate!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Casualfoto said:


> John,
> Thanks for the preview!
> 
> I've spent the last two days looking at Google Earth shots of the location. Using the Google Earth ruler, and recognizing that the fields have nicely landscaped border areas, do you think that there is adequate space for all the canopies ??? I have to say that from what I see on the satellite photos it does not appear very promising. Adding to that, it appears that the fields all have continuous fences surrounding them with as advertised.....limited/controlled access. This of course would encumber the archers movement to and from canopies setup outside the fenced in area.


Just measured it and the Northmost field is 115 meters deep (N to S) which should easily accommodate a 70M field with a safety zone and room for canopies all inside the fenced area, I would think.


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## CarbonWarrior (Apr 12, 2014)

Looks GREAT! Hopefully by then, I'll be in a situation to be able to atttend. wonderful of you to take the time and walk the lay of the land for us.


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Just measured it and the Northmost field is 115 meters deep (N to S) which should easily accommodate a 70M field with a safety zone and room for canopies all inside the fenced area, I would think.


Yeah I did the same thing. It's close depending on how you take the measurements. Of course it really depends on how many rows of canopies you figure for........1, 2, 3, 4, or even more!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yea, very true. Some "canopy control" will be in order for sure. I was glad to see better control lines for the canopies this year in Ohio. Last year, several families set up RIGHT where everyone was entering and exiting the field, and when I pointed this out to them, they either ignored me, or in the case of one young compound female archer, confronted me. I was speechless that a teenage archer would basically tell me to "stuff it" when I pointed out why everyone was walking through the corner of their canopy. ha, ha. Unbelievable. But Darrell eventually came over and made them move. This year, the lines were extended and there were nice access lanes to the shooting line between groups of canopies, which was perfect. In fact, in that situation, I'd much rather be at the back of the pack than near the front.

Funny story - as soon as we got there I could hear one mom LOUDLY proclaiming that the pop-up umbrella tents (that sit low to the ground) should be "Outlawed!" because they block to view to the shooting line from the canopies behind it. LOL. And she was dead serious. Of course, I'm over there whispering that maybe she could get out of her chair once and a while if she wanted to know what is going on. LOL.

Funny how the further you get toward the adult line, the fewer canopy wars there are.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Well, our lodging is now booked for next year.  

2 bedroom house, on the water, for $82/night. SCORE. :darkbeer:


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Just booked my room. 

Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Thinking maybe they should have finished negotiating host hotels, room blocks and rates before they released the location. :zip:


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

i got a great weekly rate. double queen bed suite with full kitchen for $69.99 per day. Close to the venue. I doubt it would have been much cheaper with the Archery discount. 



Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Ah. I know where you're staying.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Not sure about anyone else, but I know where I'll be eating supper... 

http://mellowmushroom.com/store/decatur-alabama


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

For comparison's sake, here's the weather they had in Decatur while we were in Ohio:

OBSERVED

Hi 87°F
Lo 72°F

Precip (in)
0.01in.

23

OBSERVED

Hi 86°F
Lo 71°F

Precip (in)
0in.

24

OBSERVED

Hi 86°F
Lo 68°F

Precip (in)
0.01in.

25

OBSERVED

Hi 87°F
Lo 62°F

Precip (in)
0in.

26

OBSERVED

Hi 91°F
Lo 61°F

Precip (in)
0in.
27 

OBSERVED

Hi 94°F
Lo 69°F

Precip (in)
0in.


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## Paula (Sep 8, 2009)

I was looking at activities in the area and saw there is a large 4th of July celebration and associated beauty pageant. This may effect hotel rooms. I will miss this one as Senior Nationals is in Minneapolis starting the same weekend. Hopefully if Master numbers are down they don't' hold that against us and eliminate the division because of attendance.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Hopefully if Master numbers are down they don't' hold that against us and eliminate the division because of attendance.


Hopefully not! 

The conflict with Nat. Senior Games is most unfortunate. That will affect our potential barebow participation as well, I'm afraid.


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

Don't anybody get gitty here, but remember this location is further into South. Historical weather data (NOAA taken from the Wikipedia site) shows that June/July temperatures average 5 degrees higher and rainfall averages approximately 1/2" to 1" greater than in Cincinnati area. Humidity isn't posted for both locations, but I'd be will to suggest that it will be higher! 

Also, if you're looking for deals on rooms, you might want to consider this................. Some of the local hotels are already advertising that they are full or only have a few rooms left for the 4th of July week. I don't know what to make of this but it's something to think about. Within say 15 miles of the venue there are plenty of rooms for the participants. However, as John pointed out many are "Modest" hotels. I would describe them as old properties with a two star rating. If you're into reading all the online hotel reviews, you'll see that many of them are not stellar. Only a very few had good reviews. But the good news is that the Marriott is fully booked for that week. I suspect (this is my guess!!!) that USAA blocked the entire hotel and that they are not yet ready to release the rooms for booking. So if you have to, need to, and will not stay anywhere else other than the _Marriott_ , you may still have a chance.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I seem to recall two years ago, it being 10 degrees cooler here in SE Texas than it was on the field in Ohio, for the week of the event. 

Frankly, the Ohio weather hasn't been stellar at all. We've been interrupted by a tornado that rearranged the entire field, and this year, the event was cut short because of storms. So, 2 of the 3 years, we had weather severe enough to significantly affect the event. I'll bet that Decatur has at LEAST as good odds as 1 out of 3. 

Again, not saying I'd put in in Decatur if it were my choice (My choice, and that of nearly everyone I spoke with, would be to return to Colorado Springs), but to suggest Hamilton was significantly better is quite premature, and not a very safe bet based on what we saw over the past 3 years.

John


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

Yep, Hamilton weather was not the average and there's no guarantee that Decatur will be any different. But the baseline is not favorable, it's a turkey shoot. As far as I'm concerned the move to Decatur is like a move across town. It patronizes basically the same block of members. 

Colorado Springs would have been nice, although there is not a substantial block of participants from that area. I still believe that the tournament has to move to a location where there is a large block of participant. Now that it seems like having a "major airport" is no longer important, a much larger part of the country is available. Huntsville and Birmingham are not major airports, so in this area the airports in Hartford, Rochester and Buffalo all now qualify in a competitive bid package.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Not for me it isn't. It's at least 5 hours closer to me, which means 2 fewer nights on the road and about 700 fewer miles (roughly $300-400 savings, plus two fewer days of vacation burned up). 

I had one parent whining to me in Ohio that their drive will go from 5 hours to 8 hours. LOL! I told them to try 20 hours one-way, three years in a row, and get back to me. 

As for me, I'd really rather not have it hosted near a major metro area because the traffic and expenses skyrocket. And frankly, it's most family's summer vacation, so having it in a nice place like Colorado never hurts.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Casualfoto, I'm not sure what you mean by Huntsville Airport not being a major airport, and what the implications of that are. Huntsville airport is an international airport. My initial research shows me that I should be able to fly from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan to Huntsville for $600 CAD, 7 hours, one stop. A flight to Cincinnati is the same. Good enough for me. How would a major airport makes things better for me?

Limbwalker "As for me, I'd really rather not have it hosted near a major metro area because the traffic and expenses skyrocket." I strongly agree. Being near a major metro area is a big negative.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

TER, being from Sask, you'll like it around Decatur/Huntsville. Same basic size towns and good down to earth, friendly folk.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

CVG (Cincinnati's airport) is ranked #1 in highest airfares in the nation. Why, no one knows...other than Delta keeping competitors out. At least there are 2 other airports within 2 hours (Dayton and Columbus) with much lower fares. Hopefully, Decatur's airport fares will be far lower than CVG's for those flying to the Nationals next year. Not that it will make any difference to me as I'm headed to Minneapolis and will be driving. I love to fly but can't stand the TSA bs that is allowed to go on...

BTW, the venue looks nice. BCVB had hoped to get the Nationals back again and would have held them at the new, not yet opened multi-purpose fields at the Voice of America Park. Easier access off of I-75, more room, closer to hotels and main restaurants. Who knows what the future holds.

As for the weather, it must be USA Archery and not Ohio. The week before the tournament we had highs in the 70's and no rain. The week after just a few passing showers with cool temps. I hope Decatur is ready for the bad weather to follow... :wink:

Limbwalker, those were straight line winds out of northern Illinois. Not that it really mattered as the results were the same. That one storm ran all the way to the East Coast causing massive damage along the way. Darrell and I watched it on his phone as it grew and headed for us. We had no clue what we were watching, though.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Sorry to say, but CVG has lost its crown. It's Huntsville and has been for a while.

http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2014/01/for_5th_straight_quarter_hunts.html


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Thanks for the wonderful sneak peek Lizard.
We've already booked our rooms and are planning fundraisers for our trip.
Hopefully even more of our group can make it next year.
Were thinking about renting an RV or maybe even a motorcoach so we have a place to rest and unwind between shooting times. 
One of my recently found childhood friends lives about 20 minutes from there.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Beastmaster said:


> Sorry to say, but CVG has lost its crown. It's Huntsville and has been for a while.
> 
> http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2014/01/for_5th_straight_quarter_hunts.html


which is why i will fly into Nashville. 


Chris


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Hehe. Decatur saves me about 5 hours of drive time. It's a straight pass through I-40 for me and no tolls. Since I drive from Phoenix, it's going to be a theoretical nicer drive.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

Good choice on going I40. You won't have to spend 60% of your time making your way through Texas! 

I've lived in Texas all my life and love living here. However, driving to other parts of the country can be very demoralizing at times. It takes around 13 hours for me to get to Albuquerque, NM from where I live. All but the last 2+ hours are spent in Texas.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Thanks for the wonderful sneak peek Lizard.


You're welcome! LOL.

Kevin, when we go stay with friends in Southern Illinois on our way to Ohio, Texarkana is HALF WAY - and it, and the town I live in are both technically in East Texas!


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

Mulcade said:


> Good choice on going I40. You won't have to spend 60% of your time making your way through Texas!
> 
> I've lived in Texas all my life and love living here. However, driving to other parts of the country can be very demoralizing at times. It takes around 13 hours for me to get to Albuquerque, NM from where I live. All but the last 2+ hours are spent in Texas.


I feel like this line on my drives to Tucson:
"The sun has riz, the sun has set, and here we is in Texas yet” shows how large Texas is. These lines are said to have been written by a hobo in the early 1900s.


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## foldemup (Sep 18, 2009)

Guys best of luck on your travels next year....in Decatur you're only 20 minutes from Madison/Huntsville area and there are tons of things to do and places to eat. We have the highest airfares in the country because our whole area is government contractors working at NASA and Redstone Arsenal....jack the prices up and let the taxpayers pay for it. We often drive 2 hours to Nashville or 2 hours to Birmingham to save $600-800 dollars when flying with a family of 4. I remember 4th July fireworks this year being unusually cool....don't count on it happening again....It will probably be 92-95 degrees with 95% humidity. I believe our Cabelas will be open by then and there's some of the best bass fishing in the south east just an hour away in Lake Guntersville. You can also hit up some big striped bass at Smith Lake and also some fly fishing for trout below the Smith Lake Dam. If anyone is interested, I can give you a list of the best hole in the wall (non-chain) places to eat within the greater Huntsville area.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Very cool. I'll have to give the tailwaters at Smith lake a try. Thanks for the tip!


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

foldemup said:


> I remember 4th July fireworks this year being unusually cool....don't count on it happening again....It will probably be 92-95 degrees with 95% humidity.


Oh my, that is troubling. I guess Tyler's usual plan of visiting Alaska after CA State Championships to train in the midnight sun is off. I think I will have him sleep in a steam room for the month of June. I recall Ohio and a heat index of 133 degrees, perhaps we will reflect on those being the "good ole days." Maybe shooting under the lights?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

My family always looks forward to southern style BBQ. I haven't had White BBQ sauce in a LONG while. We're looking forward to sampling things in Memphis, Nashville, Decatur, and Birmingham.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

tjk009 said:


> Oh my, that is troubling. I guess Tyler's usual plan of visiting Alaska after CA State Championships to train in the midnight sun is off. I think I will have him sleep in a steam room for the month of June. I recall Ohio and a heat index of 133 degrees, perhaps we will reflect on those being the "good ole days." Maybe shooting under the lights?


Heat index per the inclement weather policy is a heat index of 105 degrees. Someone is supposed to be monitoring that all the time. I know that this year at Nationals, we didn't have to worry about it - it was far lower than 105.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> Heat index per the inclement weather policy is a heat index of 105 degrees. Someone is supposed to be monitoring that all the time. I know that this year at Nationals, we didn't have to worry about it - it was far lower than 105.


I know.
I was all hydrated in Ohio in case it was hot I wanted to be prepared.
But instead all I had to worry about was, "where's the portapotty"


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I recall Ohio and a heat index of 133 degrees, perhaps we will reflect on those being the "good ole days." Maybe shooting under the lights?


Yup. A few years ago in Ohio, it was flat-out brutal. It was significantly hotter there than it was back at home near Houston.

Shooting under the lights would be spectacular. I sincerely hope the event organizers consider that option. Perhaps a morning session, then mid-day break (for everyone to clear the field and organizers catch their breath) and then an evening session starting around 6:00 when it's starting to cool off, and going until 10:00 under the lights. I'd be up for that. Heck, we shot under the lights at A&M a few times, and I shot some of my best outdoor scores ever. 

The entrance road into the venue is quite narrow, and I expect that intersection to be very crowded. Breaking up the sessions to allow folks to fully leave before the next wave arrives would make logistical sense. 

Of everything I saw, the only real potential issue that stood out to me was that narrow road to the venue and the tight intersection and entrance road to the complex. No turn lane from the East (where the hotels are). It's going to be a jammed-up mess for 4 days right there. I'd hate to live on that road, esp. in the house next to the entrance. And the folks at that church are going to just love us on Saturday evening and Sunday morning. LOL.


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

John, how about clout at night with reflective arrow wraps and lighted nocks. Bet, the media would like that visual.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

No doubt!


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

Beastmaster said:


> Heat index per the inclement weather policy is a heat index of 105 degrees. Someone is supposed to be monitoring that all the time. I know that this year at Nationals, we didn't have to worry about it - it was far lower than 105.


If it is getting monitored, which I assume it was a few years back when it did go to 133, is there a protocol to halt play? Back then kids and a few judges started having problems with the heat, it didn't seem anything formal was happening, reactive not proactive response. What are the temps, and index point where action is taken and what is that action?


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Shooting under the lights would be spectacular. I sincerely hope the event organizers consider that option. Perhaps a morning session, then mid-day break (for everyone to clear the field and organizers catch their breath) and then an evening session starting around 6:00 when it's starting to cool off, and going until 10:00 under the lights. I'd be up for that. Heck, we shot under the lights at A&M a few times, and I shot some of my best outdoor scores ever.



Oh boy, I'm guessing there would be more than a few compound shooters who might not like that suggestion. For me low light is no issue as I shoot an open ring, but I know a bunch of scope shooters who suffer when the light gets dim. I'm guessing and it is just my guess, that there will be no consideration of shooting at night.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

tjk009 said:


> If it is getting monitored, which I assume it was a few years back when it did go to 133, is there a protocol to halt play? Back then kids and a few judges started having problems with the heat, it didn't seem anything formal was happening, reactive not proactive response. What are the temps, and index point where action is taken and what is that action?


Actually, I don't believe the severe weather policy as we know it now was even in existence then. 

I know a lightning detector was standard equipment in the scoring trailer boxes for years. The digital sling psychrometer and other weather measurement gear is a new thing to me. 

I think the lesson learned a couple of years ago taught USA Archery that weather conditions at the field can differ from what the closest weather station provides. 

The way I interpret the policy is that when the heat index at the scoring trailer or DOS stand is at 105, the tournament director, COJ, and the on site medical staff (read, paramedics on site) will make a decision to delay, postpone or cancel. They then make the decision on when to restart. 

From a personal viewpoint, this is one of the advances that Sheri Rhodes has provided since she became National Events Manager. I'm not trying to throw Katrina Weiss under the bus,  but back then there wasn't a level of detail that we have now under the current policy.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

midwayarcherywi said:


> Oh boy, I'm guessing there would be more than a few compound shooters who might not like that suggestion. For me low light is no issue as I shoot an open ring, but I know a bunch of scope shooters who suffer when the light gets dim. I'm guessing and it is just my guess, that there will be no consideration of shooting at night.


I know that on the day that the compound archers shot until 9pm, the compound shooters that had fully enclosed scope housings had issues. Those that had cutouts in their scope housings had less issues than those with solid tubes for scope housings.

The kids that were shooting the acrylic Specialty Archery scope housings had issues, but far less than others due to the clear housing.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Okay, it's settled then. Compounders shoot middle of the day, and recurvers and barebow archers shoot early and under the lights. 

That was easy!

ha, ha.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> Okay, it's settled then. Compounders shoot middle of the day, and recurvers and barebow archers shoot early and under the lights.
> 
> That was easy!
> 
> ha, ha.


Haha all of this sounds great to me! But does FITA/WA have any weird rules about shooting under the lights that means it doesn't count as a real tournament or something?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

TER said:


> Haha all of this sounds great to me! But does FITA/WA have any weird rules about shooting under the lights that means it doesn't count as a real tournament or something?


http://rulebook.worldarchery.org/PDF/Official/2014-04-01/EN-Book2.pdf

3.18.5. Archery competitions may be shot at night time provided suitable lighting conditions can be supplied and athletes can
practise under such conditions.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Most fun FITA I ever shot was run by NAA on some soccer fields just outside Orlando back in '98 I believe. Shot a full FITA which did not count towards the National Championship, started out late in the afternoon, short break due to weather (lightning), then completed 50m and 30m under the lights on the soccer field. A little dark for a compound scope shooter but not terribly so. Lot cooler, less humid, and definitely more interesting way to shoot the round. Plus didn't need sunscreen, lol!

>>-------->


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> Okay, it's settled then. Compounders shoot middle of the day, and recurvers and barebow archers shoot early and under the lights.
> 
> That was easy!
> 
> ha, ha.





TER said:


> Haha all of this sounds great to me! But does FITA/WA have any weird rules about shooting under the lights that means it doesn't count as a real tournament or something?





Beastmaster said:


> http://rulebook.worldarchery.org/PDF/Official/2014-04-01/EN-Book2.pdf
> 
> 3.18.5. Archery competitions may be shot at night time provided suitable lighting conditions can be supplied and athletes can
> practise under such conditions.


Great! It's settled. How do we let the organizers know this is how it will run?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

TER said:


> Great! It's settled. How do we let the organizers know this is how it will run?


You can suggest it. I frankly don't think it will be run that way. Note that in prior years, compounders/recurvers all swapped times.

For example:

Day 1 - Compound Male/Recurve Female in the AM, Female Compound/Recurve Male in the PM
Day 2 - Female Compound/Recurve Male AM, Compound Male/Recurve Female PM

There has to be a rotation to be equitably fair (or cruel) to the same archers during that time period for the ranking round. 

I don't think you want the entire tournament to be brought up to a Jury of Appeals. An uneven and unfair time setup favoring recurve or compound over the other won't fly. 

Nice try though.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

It was tongue in cheek, of course. 

I'd still like to see some effort to take advantage of all those lights, and the cooler evening times to shoot.


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

"More practice, it's not dark enough" .................................that was the chant from our JOAD kids this week at our first get together after nationals. So who needs lights???


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Beastmaster said:


> Heat index per the inclement weather policy is a heat index of 105 degrees. Someone is supposed to be monitoring that all the time. I know that this year at Nationals, we didn't have to worry about it - it was far lower than 105.





XForce Girl said:


> I know.
> I was all hydrated in Ohio in case it was hot I wanted to be prepared.
> But instead all I had to worry about was, "where's the portapotty"


The heat index in '12 was well above that both for Thurs and Friday. The temps were hovering between 102-105 degs with an index of 109-112. Friday was the day the kids and judges started dropping. While it may have been being monitored, no action was taken until people started hitting the ground.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

hdracer said:


> The heat index in '12 was well above that both for Thurs and Friday. The temps were hovering between 102-105 degs with an index of 109-112. Friday was the day the kids and judges started dropping. While it may have been being monitored, no action was taken until people started hitting the ground.


My comment to that is that in 2012, the severe weather policy consisted of rain and lightning. 

Rain policy was when the field became too marshy, you suspended play. Lightning policy was the same as it is now for the most part - run for grounded cover, activity can resume 30 minutes after last strike, but back then the lightning detectors were calibrated to a 5 mile radius. It's calibrated to an 8 mile radius today.

Policies can change. I don't think that the heat index issue was ever thought of until kids and officials started showing signs of heat exhaustion.

On a side note, I am not aware of any other sport who's NGB has a heat index policy. USA Archery is the only one I know of.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

FWIW Huntsville is 20-ish miles away, lots of hotel rooms, fairly nice and safe town, went there earlier this year for a 900 round and am going back this fall. A commute, but if the room situation is trouble there's plenty there. It was actually pleasant in May -- a cool breeze blowing at the last distance -- but probably hot in July, though it is northern Alabama, so not blazing compared to Texas.

Judging by the terrain the woods might be a little bit of a wind break but when you carve something out of the woods like that it's usually humid as anything.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Winds will be a bit tricky because of the "hole in the woods" effect, but there are a LOT of fields there, so it's open enough that they may not swirl. One can hope.



> Rain policy was when the field became too marshy, you suspended play.


Was that because of Nationals in '04 when they waded through shin-deep water to pull arrows?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Was that because of Nationals in '04 when they waded through shin-deep water to pull arrows?


I believe so. Arrows that fall short can be a danger while submerged and you can't see what's there.


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## Pat_from_PA (Dec 18, 2002)

Starting back into the sport after a three years off and glad to see it's going to be right up the road! WooHoo! Bring from Pittsburgh PA area and moving down here almost 4years ago the biggest adjustment and to get use to is the heat and humidity. Hopefully be able to convince a fewc more Alabama natives to shoot too... This is the heart of 3D country down here, spots are on the endangered species list. Lol


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## mhojnacki (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm still searching for an RV camp that will take reservations in July.


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## Moose821 (Jul 30, 2014)

Check out hotels and restaurant options in Huntsville, Al.. It is a much larger city and is only a 15-20 min drive at max. hope this helps. http://www.hsvcity.com/


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## bamad (Apr 7, 2007)

Point mallard has an rv park. Also an rv park north of the river on us highway 31.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

back in 2008 at the World Cup leg in Boe France, the event got delayed and there were several night matches shot under lights. 

Here is one with Park Sung Hyun and Yun Ok Hee. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kxUPCA2JYk&list=UUb467UvO4jRgKxWX1oqtkzA


Chris


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## knotdodger (Oct 2, 2005)

> I plan to find an alternative solution (as usual). Something like my Yurt from this year would be splendid...





> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=2003274&d=1406641019&thumb=1


That is awesome!!! Is that what you stayed in this year? I like that!!

Rob B.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yea Rob, it was great. We loved it.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Bump


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Long range forecast is calling for low's of 70 and highs of 90 for Nationals.

IOW - no big deal.


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

FACT ------ Daytime highs in the high 80's to low 90's, chance of thunderstorms/showers each day. Overnight lows around 70. At least it's better than the weather in Decatur last week! Not one good word was spoken about Decatur at SoCal. Sorry John, you're on your own with this one!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Casualfoto said:


> FACT ------ Daytime highs in the high 80's to low 90's, chance of thunderstorms/showers each day. Overnight lows around 70. At least it's better than the weather in Decatur last week! *Not one good word was spoken about Decatur at SoCal.* Sorry John, you're on your own with this one!


I wouldn't expect anyone from SoCal to say anything good about the weather anywhere else in the world, actually. 

I never expected the backlash against an Alabama venue though. I grew up in Texas, and learned early the ignorance and bias (based on ignorance) against the South by those in other parts of the country. I have dealt with it for a lifetime, and got an earful again when my wife and I were in Oregon. The ignorance and stereotypes are just crazy. I honestly wonder how much of the bias is against the weather, and how much is simply against the idea of the event being held in (as Forrest Gump says...) AL-A-BAMA. 

I think a lot of it is the latter. Why? Because I don't hear this kind of whining about the Texas Shootout, which is often hotter and far windier than we'll see in Decatur, and it seems that the HORRIBLE HOT weather we had in Ohio a few years ago is very easily forgotten.

Daytime highs in the high 80's and low 90's and lows around 70 sound pretty darn nice to me actually. Of course, to the growing population that turns on the A/C when the mercury rises above 75, it won't.

I can hear the skin cancer warnings already. LOL. Some may even overdose on Vitamin D. <gasp!>

Casualfoto, have you ever even been to Northern Alabama? It's a stone's throw from Tennessee. If the event was in Tennessee, would we all be as worried. Probably not.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Tulsa today was 94, heat index north of 105. People playing tennis, golf, kids playing little league ... two weeks ago, I taught an archery camp from 8:30am to 4pm, 30 minute break for lunch. First first three days of the week every day was 95 each day, clear skies, no telling what heat index was ... very hot. Hydrate, wear a hat, take a shade break now and then, but camp, and life, carried on.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

We shot our TSAA State JOAD last weekend. Long days. 72 arrows ranking followed by a team round event, then double-elim match play the next day. Temps were well North of 90 and humidity was off the chart.



> Hydrate, wear a hat, take a shade break now and then, but camp, and life, carried on.


Pretty much.

I didn't hear one complaint all weekend. Not one.


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> I wouldn't expect anyone from SoCal to say anything good about the weather anywhere else in the world, actually.
> 
> I never expected the backlash against an Alabama venue though. I grew up in Texas, and learned early the ignorance and bias (based on ignorance) against the South by those in other parts of the country. I have dealt with it for a lifetime, and got an earful again when my wife and I were in Oregon. The ignorance and stereotypes are just crazy. I honestly wonder how much of the bias is against the weather, and how much is simply against the idea of the event being held in (as Forrest Gump says...) AL-A-BAMA.
> 
> ...



So yes I've been to the Northern Alabama region, Memphis & Atlanta in particular, and I've spent considerable amounts of time in Mobile, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, and Houston. I do get your point! This is not the deep south. Quite honestly my experience in South has always been positive, with the exception of some very oppressive weather in Mobile and Houston. For me, my objection is not about Alabama. 

Statistically the weather could be horrendous. Sure that could happen anywhere, so why play spin the bottle? Chose to hold the tournament in a location that statistically has more favorable weather. Following the current logic , the tournament could have been held in San Antonio, New Orleans, or Orlando. If you're going to play spin the bottle then let it spin! We may get lucky, and I certainly hope we do, but the risk seems too high.

Then there's the issue of just who is being served by this tournament location? Certainly it's not the USAA members that live on the east or west coast, certainly it's not the USAA members that live in the Midwest and upper Midwest. As I've said before this location serves the same group of members that were served by the Hamilton location. Relatively speaking Decatur is just a stone throw down the road from Hamilton. The same people are being imposed on to pay the costs of air travel vs. a road trip in the family car. 

CP


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Statistically the weather could be horrendous. Sure that could happen anywhere, so why play spin the bottle? Chose to hold the tournament in a location that statistically has more favorable weather.


Like where? I have always been a big fan of the Co Springs venue, but as great as those Nationals were (in my mind at least) that city doesn't even seem to get consideration. For the life of me, I don't know why not. It's a neat place to visit with your family, the temps are cool, and the USArchery staff can sleep in their own beds!



> Then there's the issue of just who is being served by this tournament location? Certainly it's not the USAA members that live on the east or west coast, certainly *it's not the USAA members that live in the Midwest and upper Midwest*. As I've said before this location serves the same group of members that were served by the Hamilton location.


 Huh? you say it's a stone's throw from Hamilton but it doesn't serve folks from the Midwest? I don't follow.

We will debate venues for Nationals so long as there are Nationals. Could we please at least go through a year or two at this venue before we throw it under the bus? (so says the guy who is about to load up his family and drive 13 hours next Tuesday...)


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

Statistically, anywhere! Colorado Springs sounds like a good location. Washington State, Michigan, Vermont, Maine.............anywhere where the chances of extreme heat and humidity is less. 

Well, I think it's a stone throw, only 6 hours south of Hamilton. Short drive! So says the guy that going load up for a 16 hour drive................

Hope you have a safe trip!!!

CP


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## OCBrent (Sep 27, 2007)

I've been to Co. Springs a half dozen times in the summer over the years and they've always had the Afternoon Thunder storms. Pretty intense at times. The Daily Newspaper would typically have a Memorial to some person killed by lightening some years ago. I'd think you should expect as many Lightning delays as anywhere else from the Rockies East. They've had a Spate of big Summer Forest Fires the last few years, but that's probably lessening the risk of such things in the future (fuel burned off).

I like Co Springs, most houses do NOT have A/C (meaning the city doesn't typically get too hot for too many days), it's at a bit of Altitude, so your Sight Marks are going to be a tad off, and maybe your lungs too. 

I live in a place that has banned personal fireworks, etc... the last couple decades. I'm guessing Alabama stills does the 4th of July right! Lots of exploding things everywhere, Hospital Emergency rooms very busy, etc...!!  Looking forward to it!!

Brent


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Honestly, with 70meters being the longest Nationals distance nowadays, I think NAA should raise the price of registration to $200 from $150, stop taking bids from venues that require staying in hotels that are 40 minutes away from the venue (and maybe hundreds of miles from 'city things to do for families'), and start holding Nationals in big cities around the country in expo buildings (like National Senior Games did in Houston in 2011). 

The price increase generates maybe another $45,000 for USA Archery, which more than covers what venues are bidding to host the tournament under current arrangements. Everyone has easy flying access and hotel accommodations to a major city. Easy to rotate the tournament amongst different regions of the country. USA Archery can use some of the extra income to invest in big wind fans to simulate gusting wind inside the shooting venues. 

What a dream - comfortable, dry shooting conditions every year - no one complaining about the heat, rain, wind, or other weather anomalies. No complaints about lack of accommodations. No complaints about 'it's never close to where I live!'. No complaints about 'there's nothing for me and family members to do, or decent restaurants!'. No complaints about wet, cold feet. No bug spray! No time wasted looking for lost arrows in the grass. 

Yeah, I know, of course there will still be volumes of complaining - but at least the flavors of complaints would be a little different.


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## Paula (Sep 8, 2009)

lksseven said:


> Honestly, with 70meters being the longest Nationals distance nowadays, I think NAA should raise the price of registration to $200 from $150, stop taking bids from venues that require staying in hotels that are 40 minutes away from the venue (and maybe hundreds of miles from 'city things to do for families'), and start holding Nationals in big cities around the country in expo buildings (like National Senior Games did in Houston in 2011).
> 
> The price increase generates maybe another $45,000 for USA Archery, which more than covers what venues are bidding to host the tournament under current arrangements. Everyone has easy flying access and hotel accommodations to a major city. Easy to rotate the tournament amongst different regions of the country. USA Archery can use some of the extra income to invest in big wind fans to simulate gusting wind inside the shooting venues.
> 
> ...


The air conditioning at 2011 Seniors was a blessing,,,


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Paula said:


> The air conditioning at 2011 Seniors was a blessing,,,


I was there. It was bizarre. Most of the barebow archers shot poorly because of the indoor lighting messing with their sight picture. But it was pleasant!


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Agree about the lighting - I was amazed at how differently the brain perceived where was the target.


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

RANT:
Honestly people of AT, record numbers shot HAMILTON.
Good place, lots to do with amusement parks, museums, restaurants, LOTS of accommodations, that are READY! Provided that the organizers don't hold it the same dang weekend as a big music blast in Cincinnati.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A USAT SHOOT IN THE NORTH AND ONE IN THE EAST.
I found out why Gold Cup went away, because they didn't want to bid on it anymore. 
USAA needs to do something for each region in holding USAT shoots in each region. 
Have you noticed ALL THE USAT SHOOTS ARE EITHER IN THE SOUTH OR WEST?
WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?
I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on flights, hotels, meals and transportation to these shoots.
I like the travel, but it is nice to have a break from the suitcase, as many a USAT quest kid will tell you.
Not saying it is good or bad, it's just flat out expensive! 

On another front...ala Mr. Yee...Beastmaster on FB...
Now, on to SHOTGUN JUNIOR OLYMPICS in COS in July!! GO IAN COOMBE! He qualified twice for the event, so this year we are going, and we are driving, into GOD'S COUNTRY! Mountains that make you realize just how small you are, even if you have a huge ego, those mountains will humble you, if you look at them with "Big Picture Eyes!"

Have a great trip everyone, looking forward to shooting my barebow with some ladies, hopefully new made friends!!! We MUST band together!

I'm posing a question to the Board at the Annual meeting: Barebow Class for USAT Ranking points! Soooo....what do you think?


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

We are driving to "'Bama" from SW Ohio.
My issue is not that I have to travel...my issue is there is not a USAT Shoot in the North or East regions....
I like the weather in SoCal, and would be happy for NTC/EJN to be there, but I think land is at a premium there, unless you can find a field where everyone is in line and not broken up on different fields....that's my other beef, but hey, we'll give it a shot and see what comes out in the wash. I don't recall a huge soccer complex in SoCal, but I wasn't really looking for one.

The spectator tents cannot be staked, I posted that on another thread, which is another (-) IMHO, but hey, like I said, we'll give it a shot...see what comes out in the wash!

I heard at SoCal, those who complained the most about Hamilton, now want it BACK in Hamilton, just showing, that you can NEVER make everyone happy! 

Here's to "'Bama" for 2015 and 2016, let's see how it goes!





Casualfoto said:


> So yes I've been to the Northern Alabama region, Memphis & Atlanta in particular, and I've spent considerable amounts of time in Mobile, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, and Houston. I do get your point! This is not the deep south. Quite honestly my experience in South has always been positive, with the exception of some very oppressive weather in Mobile and Houston. For me, my objection is not about Alabama.
> 
> Statistically the weather could be horrendous. Sure that could happen anywhere, so why play spin the bottle? Chose to hold the tournament in a location that statistically has more favorable weather. Following the current logic , the tournament could have been held in San Antonio, New Orleans, or Orlando. If you're going to play spin the bottle then let it spin! We may get lucky, and I certainly hope we do, but the risk seems too high.
> 
> ...


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Casualfoto said:


> So yes I've been to the Northern Alabama region, Memphis & Atlanta in particular, and I've spent considerable amounts of time in Mobile, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, and Houston. I do get your point! This is not the deep south. Quite honestly my experience in South has always been positive, with the exception of some very oppressive weather in Mobile and Houston. For me, my objection is not about Alabama.
> 
> Statistically the weather could be horrendous. Sure that could happen anywhere, so why play spin the bottle? Chose to hold the tournament in a location that statistically has more favorable weather. Following the current logic , the tournament could have been held in San Antonio, New Orleans, or Orlando. If you're going to play spin the bottle then let it spin! We may get lucky, and I certainly hope we do, but the risk seems too high.
> 
> ...


you mean us USA members who have to travel to Arizona, California, Florida or Texas to attend a Senior USAT shoot? My son and wife went to florida, went to San Diego and now to Alabama. People in New England are screwed even worse. so we get ONE USAT shoot we can drive to in Less than one day. and if you look at the membership, the North still has a ton of members. for years more USAT archers came from the NORTH region than any other. The NORTH region has also produced more olympic medalists than any other as well


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I'm posing a question to the Board at the Annual meeting: Barebow Class for USAT Ranking points! Soooo....what do you think?


Won't fly. Not enough archers competing. Maybe in a few years, but even then it's going to be tough. Gotta show the numbers first before we get ahead of ourselves. I think we should focus first on having enough outdoor barebow archers to contest all the events at Nationals. Right now, only the senior and master's men will shoot all three events - ranking, team and matchplay.

Masters USAT has been discussed, but faces the same problem. Not enough competition.


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

Jim, Liz........
You make my point. The same people are being abused year after year. We all know that the USAT calendar discriminates against those in the Northeast, Northwest, and all other northern parts of the country. This tournament in particular has the scheduling flexibility to locate it in comfortable part of the country while at the same time service the members that are summarily dismissed from all other calendar/location selections.

Liz, PM to follow.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> has the scheduling flexibility to locate it in comfortable part of the country


Mmm, I think the folks from our club will be plenty comfortable in lower humidity and temps a few degrees cooler than we're used to.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Monday forecast for Decatur is 87 degrees and 48% humidity. Wish I was going to be there on Monday instead of Tuesday!


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

Here is a thought...

We hold Regional Indoor National Events, mail in style....how about doing that for National event then inviting the top say 32 or 16 from each division, and each region, to compete for USAT position?

Though, Larry, I do like the big city idea, and maybe holding the event in convention center type place, then you don't have, as you stated, the weather factor to deal with! BUT, with it being an indoor distance shoot, you then LIMIT the number of archers, to what can fit in that venue! So, how about contacting a pro football team to host it? Most pro football teams are in big cities, and some even have domes covering the field...possibilities...

We leave these ideas for our NTD (National Tournaments Director) to ponder, and if it is even feasible, is truly the question.

Miami U in Oxford Ohio was the home of the NTC back in the '90s, I shot there, as my first nationals (compound, not BB!). We have outgrown MU-OH's Cook Field, which is a good thing. Then it moved to Canton, MI for quite a few years, then JOAD Nationals split form the main event and went on it's own causing the addition of another trip to one's, JOAD and national tournament schedule, thereby causing TWO National Archery Championships for the JOAD set. JOAD Nationals and USAA Nationals...how could there be TWO different JOAD National Titles? So, then, USAA joined them both together when the economy went south a few years ago, and I think it has been a good thing! It is good to have the community together, but NTC/EJN is getting so big, we outgrow venues, which is a good problem to have, but then a solution has to be sought. So, who knows what will happen?! Our (NEC = National Events Coordinator) does a fairly good job with the tourneys I have been to, and I give her all the kudos! She works her fingers to the bone!

See you at Alabama!



lksseven said:


> Honestly, with 70meters being the longest Nationals distance nowadays, I think NAA should raise the price of registration to $200 from $150, stop taking bids from venues that require staying in hotels that are 40 minutes away from the venue (and maybe hundreds of miles from 'city things to do for families'), and start holding Nationals in big cities around the country in expo buildings (like National Senior Games did in Houston in 2011).
> 
> The price increase generates maybe another $45,000 for USA Archery, which more than covers what venues are bidding to host the tournament under current arrangements. Everyone has easy flying access and hotel accommodations to a major city. Easy to rotate the tournament amongst different regions of the country. USA Archery can use some of the extra income to invest in big wind fans to simulate gusting wind inside the shooting venues.
> 
> ...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> d went on it's own causing the addition of another trip to one's, JOAD and national tournament schedule, thereby causing TWO National Archery Championships for the JOAD set. JOAD Nationals and USAA Nationals...how could there be TWO different JOAD National Titles?


To me, this is one of, if not THE most idiotic things I see in our sport as it relates to tournaments and tournament champions. But we see it all the time. JOAD indoor champion and then "Indoor National" Champion in the Cub division? Huh?

State JOAD champion and then again state outdoor Cadet champion? Huh?

I have yet to understand the reasoning behind this. 

Combined events where everyone shoots in the age group they belong in are the true Champions.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The forecast for Tues-Thurs features a high of 86 now. Thurs. is a high of 83.

83.

How will we ever survive Alabama?


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

I know you are trying to be funny, but the forecast is also for humid rainy days as well, and with that humidity, as you well know, goes a lot of heat prone people not having a good time.
It won't be 105 but still when the heat index is high, it feels worse than the actual air temps. I'm not complaining, because you CANNOT complain about weather, because you have no control, but I'm just saying, everyone bring cooling methods that suit you!
Cheers John!



limbwalker said:


> The forecast for Tues-Thurs features a high of 86 now. Thurs. is a high of 83.
> 
> 83.
> 
> How will we ever survive Alabama?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yes, that was sarcasm. But with a point. And my point is all the doomsday whiners who've been complaining about the choice of Northern Alabama venue since the moment it was announced last year will have one more challenge facing them in Decatur. What will they find to complain about now?

I'm sure it wont take them long though.

In the meantime, I'm looking forward to lower humidity and 10 degree cooler temps than what we see every day at home.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Latest forecast from weather.com. At least a 50% chance of rain each day. Bring your rain gear!!!! It could get very tricky as thunderstorms are predicted each day. I'm sure the schedule will be in flux. Team rounds may take another hit. They are always the first to get the axe.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> To me, this is one of, if not THE most idiotic things I see in our sport as it relates to tournaments and tournament champions. But we see it all the time. JOAD indoor champion and then "Indoor National" Champion in the Cub division? Huh?
> 
> State JOAD champion and then again state outdoor Cadet champion? Huh?
> 
> ...


Don't you have to belong to a JOAD club to shooting in the JOAD nationals? Not all kids are in JOAD.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

So then what do those kids do for outdoor nationals?


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Apparently nothing.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Apparently nothing.


Kids are supposed to be members of JOAD clubs to shoot the EJN. I suspect the reason for this oft-ignored requirement was that it would create more JOAD clubs if one had to be a member to now contend for Jr USAT positions (back in the old days, USTN was the mandatory event-then it was JOAD Nationals and then we had the merger for several reasons-to prevent JOADS from playing games as to USAT teams was probably the main reason-you no longer can shoot for both teams and make up your mind after you shot the season)

however, the JOAD requirement is really not enforced and we have "virtual JOAD clubs" which exist to get around the rule but don't really meet the concept of what the JOAD movement was intended to do. Is that good or bad? well as to the rule, that is point of debate. Some kids will argue they shouldn't have to be part of a real JOAD Club (when I mean real, I mean a club where kids attend, get coaching and shoot with their peers) to be accomplished archers and thus they shouldn't be penalized for not joining a club to shoot EJN.

my attitude is if they are going to call it the EJN, then keep the JOAD requirement and make sure all those shooting as US Nationals establish membership in a recognized JOAD club. 

if its supposed to be an open nationals for USA members, then say so and quit calling it JOAD nationals. or we can go back to two events-a championship for kids who actually belong to real JOAD clubs and then the USNTC which doesn't require anything other than USA membership


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Jim,

Much agreed, and thanks for the background info.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Venue was fantastic, as I expected. I've not seen another Nationals venue that could have handled 1000 participants + another 1000 parents/coaches + another 200 workers in the kind of soaking rains we had this week, the way Decatur did. Yes, the 30M field looked like a dairy farm by today, but considering the amount of rain, we had it easy. TONS of asphalt parking and still good clean grass in most places after 4 straight days of downpours. 

Instead of too hot, it was almost too cold half the time. My thermometer was in the 70's for most of the week.

Separate fields was outstanding, and kept the event moving along. The central clout field worked out great too. What a fantastic field to shoot clout on!

There was some room for small improvements, as always, but not much. I think the venue was a national championship caliber venue.


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> Venue was fantastic, as I expected. I've not seen another Nationals venue that could have handled 1000 participants + another 1000 parents/coaches + another 200 workers in the kind of soaking rains we had this week, the way Decatur did. Yes, the 30M field looked like a dairy farm by today, but considering the amount of rain, we had it easy. TONS of asphalt parking and still good clean grass in most places after 4 straight days of downpours.
> 
> Instead of too hot, it was almost too cold half the time. My thermometer was in the 70's for most of the week.
> 
> ...


I laughed at some that complained about the venue and suggested holding it in a place with less rain. Short memories. Pennsylvania with thigh deep water at the bales, Colorado Springs with a constant rain and high 40's temperature, microburst in Hamilton and severe thunderstorms, Canton with the quagmire at the shooting line and and spectator area. It rains everywhere (except Southern California according to Albert Hammond).


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> Venue was fantastic, as I expected. I've not seen another Nationals venue that could have handled 1000 participants + another 1000 parents/coaches + another 200 workers in the kind of soaking rains we had this week, the way Decatur did. Yes, the 30M field looked like a dairy farm by today, but considering the amount of rain, we had it easy. TONS of asphalt parking and still good clean grass in most places after 4 straight days of downpours.
> 
> Instead of too hot, it was almost too cold half the time. My thermometer was in the 70's for most of the week.
> 
> ...


small improvements

1) 50-60-70 all on the MAIN field

2) with the 70M targets much closer (i.e. moved south) so the archers tents were not 35M from the shooting line

3) that would mean the 50m and 70M archers don't forfeit an arrow to breakage or lost if they miss left right or high

4) the 50 M field should be used for the 25-30 so they don't look into the sun in the morning as they did on the field I ran. the 50M had inadequate back stop-a miss almost guaranteed a destroyed arrow

5) there was insufficient room on the kids field for spectators-on the south field there would be

6) the practice field should be the clout field that faced east. 

7) no matter what field is used, there is no place for the 3-4 deep tent rows we had at Hamilton


8) the grass on the field was very short-easy for misses-when they did not go past the fences to be found

9) parking was fairly convenient

10) they need MORE porta-potties for the Kids field and CLOSER. same with 60-70

as to the mud and rain-I hear that was an aberration


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Beautiful venue. A gorgeous place to shoot. Having lighting options was nice, too.

More porta potties would have been nice (and a potty break at 36 arrows would have been a kind thing to allow for the 'over 50' archers!).

I heard an observation that if you were trying to coach archers in different disciplines and ages, that getting from field to field in a timely/not exhausting manner was a difficult trick.

But, really, it was very good. The most persistently aggravating thing was the almost constant flakiness of the shot timers on the field, but that isn't a 'venue' issue.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Venue was fantastic, as I expected.


I don't have a benchmark as it was my first NTC, but it truly was an amazing facility. 



> Instead of too hot, it was almost too cold half the time.


Pfffft!  I had been praying fervently about it! It was a little warm on the practice field Wednesday morning, but soon cooled down. Then it stayed that way until right after I finished my elimination match on Saturday morning. Then the sun came out and it got positively hot. But I didn't care because I was done! I went to my car, cranked up the AC, and started packing up. I was just sad I didn't get to see the end of the barebow matches. I hear it was quite exciting!

Hats off to USAA for rolling with the punches and major delays due to weather. As Jennie said, the word of the day was #weatherpermitting, lol. As I said, I don't have a benchmark, and yes, there was some confusion here and there, but it seemed to go very smoothly, all things considered.

Already looking forward to next year!


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

great venue and improvements should make the tournament much better next time.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Are they planning on going back next year and/or how long are they committed to the site?

Would they ever consider rotating among regions so it could occasionally be someplace cooler.


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## mcullumber (Jul 31, 2006)

Azzurri said:


> Are they planning on going back next year and/or how long are they committed to the site?
> 
> Would they ever consider rotating among regions so it could occasionally be someplace cooler.


Unofficial information is that it will be back at the same facility in 2016 in July, but not 4th of July weekend. Have not heard of the contract length.

The NTC/EJN is now large enough that USA Archery can now ask for city and venue participation in terms of real dollars. This event is now put out to bid with a minimum contribution from the bidding entity.

A facility large enough to hold the event, enough volunteer base, lights, parking, hotels, airports, internet/wifi are all of the many items that are considered (and others) in each presenting bid. The bid request is issued nation wide through National Tourism conventions, National Parks & Recreation conventions and National Sports Facility conventions.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

The membership can influence the determination by encouraging communities to bid on USA Archery events like EJN, NTC, Trials and USATs.


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## luckycharlie (Nov 29, 2010)

Overall perspective from the 50m Field, Cadet Compound Men.

Venue
Good - 
- Field Held up great, except right at the entrance gates. 
- Only had a few delays due to electronics, even with large amounts of moisture.
- Weather delays were communicated effectively with social media.
- Judging controlled the "Excess" Archer support back from the shooting area during the Head to Head, and Team rounds.
- Parking was fine, even during change over periods.
- Nice short grass, kept shoes as dry as possible.

Bad-
- Shade covers were staked down in a manner had 4 ropes blocking all the access points from shooting area to spectator area.


Over all the venue was nice, and the general area around the venue was nice as well.

Cant control the weather. So unless we can shoot down near the beach in Southern California, looks like weather will continue to be a factor to the competitors. So, that means that I just need to go through my son's equipment and replace the hardware with stainless bolts.


Charles.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

I seriously would like to attend this event just can't the weekend of the 4th...a lot of events fighting for the few weekends.

Dewayne


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

luckycharlie said:


> Overall perspective from the 50m Field, Cadet Compound Men.
> 
> Venue
> Good -
> ...


I didn't get up to that field-Judges were on the field from start to finish and the only time I wasn't on my field was doing the time the fields were shut down and cleared due to lightning

one of the major complaints I heard about the 50M field was absolutely no area behind the targets-a miss meant the arrow went through the fence into a mass of woods and poison ivy which is why I suggested putting the 50M field on the main field and moving the 25/30 field up there


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Glad to hear the event went well, even with the weather problems.

I just hope for next year that the event will allow time travel between the NFAA Field nationals in Darrington, WA, and wherever the next Target Nationals is located. Hopefully it won't cost $2000 in airfair, hotel, car rental, and food to travel from Seattle. Because it is on my bucket list for next year.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> The membership can influence the determination by encouraging communities to bid on USA Archery events like EJN, NTC, Trials and USATs.


Any interested on bidding for the 2017-18 NTC/US Open/JOADNC? http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Archery/Events/Event-Organization/Bid-Packets


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jim, your suggestions are spot-on. There is always room for improvement, esp. at a 1st year venue. But considering the numbers, the fact that it was a first-year venue, and the fact that there is a serious absence of JOAD/USArchery presence in North Alabama, I thought it went exceptionally well. 

I have to give a lot of credit to the USArchery staff who really rolled with the punches and did everything in their power to hold every single event they could, despite lightning delays occupying easily 1/3 of the available shooting time during daylight hours. 

Well done Sheri and company. 

There were a LOT of positives about this venue over any other I've seen. Some rather unexpected, but welcome. I asked a few of the youth archers what they thought of the tent army being well behind them, and to the person, they all LOVED it, my daughter included!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I heard an observation that if you were trying to coach archers in different disciplines and ages, that getting from field to field in a timely/not exhausting manner was a difficult trick.


This has never changed. In 2006, I probably lost 3 or 4 lbs. in as many days just running back and forth between the JOAD field and the "adult" field in CoSprings.

In Hamilton, I had archers literally from one end of that line to the other and wished I'd had a pedometer on my belt to record the miles I walked each year. 

After this year, I will be instituting a "no Bowmen" rule in my club for Nationals. I am no longer interested in setting foot on that 30/25M field. Sorry, but the fact that I didn't have to this year (despite having nearly 2x as many archers as in the past from our club) not only allowed me to shoot, but made the whole week nearly stress-free. Some of the things I heard coming from that Bowman field while walking past did not surprise me. I'd say easily 75% of the drama at Nationals (not necessarily good, mind you) comes from that field. Too much, too early, too intense, too many tears.

If they do as Jim suggests and move the 30/25M field to where the 50M field was this year, that would be a perfect solution. There would be room for canopies AND for finding arrows behind the bales. It would also make room for the growth in the Bowmen ranks that we all expect.

There was more than enough room on the main field for the 50M line, and to move the shooting line closer to the shade canopies, so there could be a safety zone behind the bales to find arrows. Having an arrow sail off into the poison-ivy infested woods is too harsh a penalty for our newer archers IMO. I'm not allergic to poison ivy, and went back to retrieve a lot of arrows behind the 50M line, but not many folks are that lucky.

Talking to Darrell Pace at the end of the event, he explained that there was a big event following ours, which is why the shade canopies were where they were - they aren't going to move them for the next event. Hopefully next year, they will have a little more flexibility and will incorporate some of these changes.

Still, the facilities were first class. I think next year will be one of the best Nationals yet.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> This has never changed. In 2006, I probably lost 3 or 4 lbs. in as many days just running back and forth between the JOAD field and the "adult" field in CoSprings.
> 
> In Hamilton, I had archers literally from one end of that line to the other and wished I'd had a pedometer on my belt to record the miles I walked each year.
> 
> ...


we didn't have all that much drama on the kids field. we had one injury timeout due to an archer dropping her release on her foot (yeah seriously) and one whose mother wanted an injury recess that the archer didn't want-then she did. we had a bunch of pass throughs due to some cub boys shooting near 60 pounds at the short range wet targets but Darrell quickly took care of that. we had very few equipment issues-a girl's d loop breaking was the only real issue I recall having to make up arrows for. sure, we had cases of too many non credentialed individuals taking up space under the canopies and we handled that fairly efficiently. 

I didn't see much in the way of tears. The clear #1 compound cub girl archer lost a one point finals match after dominating (i.e. 150 mainly 12-13X passes) and thus lost the overall GNC to the girl who finished #2 in the qualification round, didn't throw a fit, rather she was a very gracious "loser" same with the bowman compound girl who lost the gold medal match by about a quarter of an inch. 

and again I saw some great sportsmanship- one from a boy from my club though he trains at another range-the same boy who refused to accept a win last year when his opponent shot the wrong target. This time, his opponent, upset with shooting a 9 in the quarter-final match yanked out the arrow before it could be scored. Immediately the boy realized what he had done and I told him that the arrow was lost unless his opponent conceded it (I was not going to make that ruling, I had reached for my radio to call another judge since the opponent was from my club) but the other boy immediately said IT WAS A NINE which was confirmed by yet another archer on the next target. So I asked the other archer-DO YOU concede that the removed arrow scored a nine-and he said-of course, that's where it was. Now the boy who conceded the nine won anyway but it was in doubt when he did that. and the boy on the other target mat said "none of us want to win that way" and the 8 still playing all agreed to that statement. 

so maybe there was more drama on our field but I saw a lot of good sportsmanship among boys who were already accomplished competitors


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Glad to hear that Jim. But I wasn't talking about on the shooting line. LOL


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

Where can I find the result of the barebow event. I don't see it in USAA site. Thx.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

http://rcherz.com/nl/competitions/detail/4191/131st_US_National_Target_Championships

Scroll down toward the bottom of the page. The ranking round scores show up, then you can page through the brackets from the US Open matchplay event. Clout is in there somewhere too.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Here's the clout round:

http://rcherz.com/nl/competitions/detail/5136/131st_US_National_Target_Championships___Clout_


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