# is this cheating????



## bigchop (Nov 25, 2009)

hey all, i was at a local 3d shoot yesterday here is the problem.all the targets at the shoot had 12 rings. except for one ,no one told anybody, this target was so shot up the 12 ring was not visible so the club decided that it would just be scored as a 10 only.again this info was not disclosed till the end of the shoot. here is the problem my friend made an excellent shot on this target perfect in the middle of the 10 ring so he scored it a 12 and even on the score card there was spot to score 12. well at the end of the day he was the overall winner in the open class,then somebody brought up all this b.s. about a 12 not being possible on this one target and was accused of cheating. the thing is he has won the open class here several times and the locals just dont like us outsiders coming to their good ole boy shoots.is this cheating or a honest mistake,and shouldn't this scoring issue be announced or posted so everyone knows whats up?


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## huntindoc (Feb 8, 2006)

He's the only one who could know if it was cheating or an honest mistake. If you can't identify the 12 ring I'm not sure how you could score a 12?


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## APAnTN (Mar 17, 2007)

if the target was shot up and he wasnt told the 12 wasnt in play i dont think hes cheating at all especially if the whole group called it a 12. When the lines are gone it becomes a judgement call if the arrow is where i think the 12 should be i cant take it away from the shooter. I feel its the ranges responsibility to keep the targets in proper shape or replaced.


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## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

I'm a little confused...you said he scored a shot "dead-center in the ten" as a twelve.
I'm not familiar with the center of the ten ever being scored as a 12. Usually it's an IBO "11" or in the ASA a "10". So, I guess I don't know. :embara:


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

It wasn't a IBO or ASA shoot , just a regular club shoot that used their own set of rules. Just like in the Rinehart 100 . They score the center ring in the ten as a twelve.


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## thunkit3d (May 30, 2010)

the course should have said something about the target. as an owner of a 3 d course you have to stay on top of your equipment unless they just dont care which a lot are that way.. show up pay your money shoot and go home is what i have noticed when i go to some other shoots. next time maybe take a pic with your phone. have had several like that this year. i would have taken the guys word on it. you can tell who can shoot and who cant. keep shooting.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Spotshooter2 said:


> It wasn't a IBO or ASA shoot , just a regular club shoot that used their own set of rules. Just like in the Rinehart 100 . They score the center ring in the ten as a twelve.


I wouldn't call it cheating. And if called cheating how much did he win by? if more than 2 points, then, again, he didn't cheat.

Our club scores the center X a 12. I can't remember going to any club where they score the center X a 11.


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## sawdust2 (Jan 7, 2009)

*You Could Have Ask*

and saved all of this heart burn and trashing of the club and local shooters. Cheating, probably not, but not good form.

sawdust2


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

[Our club scores the center X a 12. I can't remember going to any club where they score the center X a 11.[/QUOTE]

The only organization that scores a center X as a 12 is Rinehart. The center X is an 11 by IBO rules and ASA 12s are high and low in the 10 ring.

This is part of the problem with clubs shoots and 3D in general...to many rules and differences in scoring.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

APAnTN said:


> if the target was shot up and he wasnt told the 12 wasnt in play i dont think hes cheating at all especially if the whole group called it a 12. When the lines are gone it becomes a judgement call if the arrow is where i think the 12 should be i cant take it away from the shooter. I feel its the ranges responsibility to keep the targets in proper shape or replaced.


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

BTW, there are lots of clubs around here that score center rings as twelves if they don't have low 12's on them, so that's not unusual.


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## baird794 (Dec 2, 2006)

just minuse 2 points and call it a day :darkbeer:


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## Ambush Hunter (Nov 17, 2009)

APAnTN said:


> if the target was shot up and he wasnt told the 12 wasnt in play i dont think hes cheating at all especially if the whole group called it a 12. When the lines are gone it becomes a judgement call if the arrow is where i think the 12 should be i cant take it away from the shooter. I feel its the ranges responsibility to keep the targets in proper shape or replaced.


I agree!! if the group shooting caller cant make a judgement call or the group it self cant then the group behind them caller makes a call and thats final. but the club schould had have the 12ring in shape.


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## Bird Dogg (Aug 18, 2009)

*cheating*

did he win by more than two points? if there was 30 targets max score of 358 with 29 twelves and one 10, right? so if he beat the second place guy by anything more than 2 points he is still the winner. unless he was scoring 12's on other targets when he shouldnt have.


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## ruger10x (Feb 1, 2006)

If it was a local shoot, and there wasn't a 12 ring visible,it is
just a 10.
you cannot call what you cannot see.


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## frickdogg (Jul 25, 2009)

*read his thread again*



sawdust2 said:


> and saved all of this heart burn and trashing of the club and local shooters. Cheating, probably not, but not good form.
> 
> sawdust2


I think sawdust should read the thread again he never said a club name from what I read
He said local club, some places that could 100 miles away.


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## erictski (May 20, 2009)

I say if after all the shooters came in that the announcement was made that target XXX would not be scoring any 12s then he should have changed his score card...but thats just me...


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## bigchop (Nov 25, 2009)

he won by either 8 or 10 points. i dont remember which,and no i did not use any names. i guess my problem with the situation is all the other times at this shoot there is a twelve ring on all targets. anf if a twelve is not possible why is there a spot to score one on the score sheet?


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## bigchop (Nov 25, 2009)

also i guess in the future i will just stick with the shoots that are run a little better. i dont think guys should be bashed for being good shooters just cause your are not from the same area or in the same club,im no great shot,yet but getting better my best finish ever at a shoot was 4th but this guy that won is a helluva shot and has taught me alot he is not a cheater .it was just a cheap plaque anyway.


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## 2nd_Shot (Feb 24, 2010)

IMO if everyone that shot in the group agrees on the score of that target then that is the score I write down.

If it is on line I ask everyone if they agree and take the score.

If there is no line (shot up target) and no one was told that it would be scored different then the same above applies. What the group calls is recorded.


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## tek (Feb 1, 2005)

bigchop, sending you a PM....I think I know the target you are talking about.
We had trouble scoring more than one target at that shoot...seems like many were shot up pretty bad...That club does put on a good shoot though, its one of my favorites


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

If there was a 12 in that spot on the other side then it is not cheating and no one should say anything about it.


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## Old Man Archer (Mar 31, 2009)

YRhinefield said:


> [Our club scores the center X a 12. I can't remember going to any club where they score the center X a 11.


The only organization that scores a center X as a 12 is Rinehart. The center X is an 11 by IBO rules and ASA 12s are high and low in the 10 ring.

This is part of the problem with clubs shoots and 3D in general...to many rules and differences in scoring.[/QUOTE] The NFAA scores the center ring as a twelve and I know that many of our local clubs used to be NFAA members as was ours. During the NFAA State Championship the center X-Ring was always scored as 12. Although most local shoots only scored 10, 8, 5, 0 the X-Ring or center 12 or 11 as the IBO now scores it, was used to break ties by counting who shot the most X-Rings. The NFAA is the older organization of the 3 mentioned and all the target companies called the center ring a twelve ring years ago so saying that Rinehart is the only one to score it that way is not true at all. All the older target companies such as Delta , R&W , Mckensie and so forth at one time did also.


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

Except the fact that a lot of clubs buy targets that only have IBO 12s (center 12) around here.. No ASA 12s on it.


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