# How do we as Archers grow the sport of 3D?



## 1ELKAHOLIC (Dec 8, 2010)

A mandatory school on how to score arrows, and a draw system for putting the shooters on their stakes. ( It's hard to beat shooters that have the buddy scoring system going.) It is sad, but I think this has to be done on all levels of tournaments. The bright side is you will meet a lot of new people.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

The best thing is to ignore the hate crowd and demanding blood. Rules are in place and if wanting the rules changed then petition such. Going on strike against the ASA and/or IBO is not the correct thing to do.

Is the MV things done? I don't know, but read;
Link doesn't work as I wanted so copied;
"The Competition Committee is made up of 5 ASA Members in good standing. I don't think anyone will question their integrity, voracity or dedication. They are:

Gene Curry 
Darin Christianberry 
Brian Dansby 
Kelly King
Roy Duncan

These gentlemen represent a cross section of our shooters and i believe they have done a great job over the years. If anyone thinks any of these members are anything other than genuine in their judgement and interpretation of ASA rules and disciplinary matters then you can come to me. I will not stand for calls to restructure the competition committee to apease personal agendas.

This matter has been sent to the Competition Committee and will be resolved by them according to the ASA Rules Of Competition not in the court of public opinion.

Thank you,
Laval D. Falks
National Director, ASA Federation"

and;
"The following comes straight from the ASA rules under Competition Committee.

"In addition to reviewing infractions and ruling on grievances submitted by shooters, the committee will establish penalties that are not delineated in the ASA Rules, as well as sanctions for conduct violations and repeat rules violators."

I think this gives them the power to do what is right."


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3D a good sport and your going to have a few cheaters. The numbers are small in those who cheat.

Take pictures and show all the smilling faces. Talk about the good things at the events.

Local shoots really need shotgun starts and pair shooters up for fairness.

Atleast break up the groups when you can.

DB


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Daniel Boone said:


> Local shoots really need shotgun starts and pair shooters up for fairness.
> DB


This ain't happening. Local shoots are just that, local and for the most part fun for those want to get together with friends and family. Big trophy event or money, yes, shotgun starts if the club wants and pairing is the right thing to do.
I'd probably side step a club that wanted shotgun starts for all their 3D events. For most all the local 3Ds I attend I rarely walk on to the course before 9:00 am. Having excess to about 19 clubs within 1 hour of my house I can do this, shoot when I want to. I kind of partial to starting around 10:00 am.


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## DogWoman (Sep 9, 2011)

I am an avid Cowboy Action Shooter. What I see in SASS applies here:
1. Shepherding: Encourage and coach new shooters. Be quick to identify new shooters and make them feel welcome! Even good shooters want to feel welcome.
2. Your equipment is visible to all. Be ready to show new shooters why you have it and why you like it. Many new shooters want to know this and where to get the equipment!
3. Range officers: In SASS, we have a minimum of 3 for each stage. They call the shot. Also, we don't allow spouses to call for their spouses at our matches. When a shot is close, they call it. If it's too close to call in their opinion, the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter. Any shooter who objects then goes to the match director.
4. Have fun matches where coaching is the main goal!
5. Awards (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) for bigger matches and DOOR PRIZES for everyone else who competes. Have local businesses donate door prizes. We have had guns and many small items. 
6. Pot luck dinners after the matches.

There will be cheaters no matter where you go. However, those with the most character and respect are those who not only refuse to cheat but will be quick to correct mistakes in their favor that will put them out of the running for awards! (I've seen this at a SASS Regional match with the top winner who caught a mispost of a score that took him from 1st place to 10th. That shooter, if anyone is in SASS, is one of the prominant shooters in the sport.)
What kept me coming to our 3D league was the warmth by everyone. My partner (my husband doesn't shoot) and I would not call close hits. We had someone else call them so as to prevent any hint of cheating. Our group also cheered those who did well and encouraged those who didn't. No one walked around with an "I'm better than you attitude". It was more of, next week we'll start over again!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> This ain't happening. Local shoots are just that, local and for the most part fun for those want to get together with friends and family. Big trophy event or money, yes, shotgun starts if the club wants and pairing is the right thing to do.
> I'd probably side step a club that wanted shotgun starts for all their 3D events. For most all the local 3Ds I attend I rarely walk on to the course before 9:00 am. Having excess to about 19 clubs within 1 hour of my house I can do this, shoot when I want to. I kind of partial to starting around 10:00 am.


If your consistant about shotgun starts and run a good shoot it works well for archers and the ones putting it on. Other wise shoot for fun and dont keep score. Its called a tournament. If not call it a fun shoot. My buddies and me just jackpot on private ranges any more to to most clubs wont take the time to break groups up. My club average a good number of shooters and we break groups up if we feel there not scoring properly. Seems to work well for us. We dont do shotgun starts except in state shoots. Then we pair archers with other shooters in the class. Thats how it should be, dont be afraid to meet and shoot with others.
DB
DB


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

As we all know to make 3D a bigger sport it starts with money, money has to come from sponsers, sponsers only donate if they will get their name out to a lot of people, to get their names in front of a lot of people you have to have large attendance for the shoot and even better TV broadcast. Attendance issue first: I think the vast majority of people that go to the local shoots go to practice for hunting, well practicing for hunting and the tournement styles of 3d conflict with each other. We need to get more people to shoot with the tournement style in mind, starts with the people setting up the shoots and goes from there. We need to push local clubs to pick a set of rules and go by them. In Iowa its a crap shoot as to what you will get for rules, max yardages, target placement, etc. We also need to get more young people in the sport and show them how great it is. In doing this we all need to conduct ourselves in a very professional manner. 
Don't know if it will ever get to the point we see it on TV but it would be great to see


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Local clubs need to just have the range open on the weekend and stop pretending to have big tournaments when they have a weekend shoot. Stop paying back money except a state or regional shoot.. It's just like golf I play allot and when I go I go to practice and have fun I don't exspect to win 20$... We as archers have hurt ourselves by paying back money on weekend shoots just to get shooters.. How long would a golf course stay open if they had to pay back just to get people out?

We need one universal set of rules for all 3D! I should be able to shoot in California or Kentucky and know the rules will be the same.. This part of 3D archery is a joke...

Last time I checked this is 2012! Everyone has a mobile device or access to a computer and the coverage of ASA Pro Ams and IBO triple crown are still covered like it is 1989... Maybe some new young people need to be on these boards to put some life into the sport.

The Pro Class should be treated like one.. as it is right now just pay money and call yourself a Pro which is also a joke. I think you should have to earn your way into the Pro ranks and then have to earn your spot to stay there or you will be cut.. I also believe the Pros should shoot for free and the sponsor of the tournament should pay the prize money. The ASA has 7 pro Ams bid these out to the sponsors whom ever pays the most gets their pick of the shoot..

Classes need to be reduced greatly....everybody doesn't need a class so they feel good... What ever happened to hard work and practice so you won't get your but kicked..everyone has to start someplace and as we have it now we have enough classes so everybody feels like they win...

More vendors and seminars at Pro Ams and triple crown events.. Give these guys a break or let them set up for free!!

Maybe a few sports articles in ESPN the magazine or Sports Illustrated interviewing Levi shedding some light to the general public on the sport..

Clubs need to consolidate to pool resources to improve shooting venue and money..

I may have more but got to go change a dirty diaper on my baby boy


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## charger22 (Oct 1, 2010)

Add zombies.


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## Big Johnc (Sep 2, 2007)

Telling more about it is a good way to make it grow. Here in Georgia We do a week in review youtube spot.
http://www.youtube.com/user/georgiaarchery This helps everyone know whats going on with Archery in Georgia.
$$ is key also. Just look at any sport on TV today. Prize $$ make people more want to try, Sponers want to market to large crowds. 
So pay out and crowds will come to try it and Sponers will come to market to the crowds.
For me its not about the $$. I love the sport. I teach kids archery at 4H, NASP, JOAD.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

I work with other local clubs and we base our rules off of the ASA Rules. We do not have 24 classes however. 
We work around eachothers schedules. 
I make all folks with rangefinders shoot in a class and shoot together in groups. Either for fun or in my Known class. But they are not mixed in with scoring shooters.
I give awards to all the kids under 12 and special awards for those who place 1-3rd.
I let a kid shoot for free when with a paying adult.

I set the targets with a couple friends and myself, my nephew picks them up after the shoot with one of his friends.

Whenever someone buys a bow in my shop I give them a free pass to come and try a shoot.
I have a page on my stores website dedicated to the local clubs and shoots.
I send out emails before all shoots as a reminder, I have over 1000 people in my database. 
I have a "bring a friend" program for all my shoots, bring a friend and get points towards the year end giveaways.

I only had one issue at the alst shoot and those folks are going to be asked to split up this time and we'll see how that goes.

I am open to suggestions however, if you do not own a club or have not worked at a club that holds 3d shoots please keep your criticism to a minimum because you do not know how much work goes into putting on a successful shoot. For those of you who do.... I am all ears!!


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

All great inputs so far.

As to the shotgun start debate, let me ask ya'lls opinion on something. Say you have a formal start time, for those competing. Shotgun start with randomized groups who will be keeping eachother honest, and a set time for them to have their cards turned in. Then a later time for those who want to shoot more for recreation (no score cards/prizes), self-made groups, LRF's whatever. No one on the course with a LRF during the competition, no slow recreation shooters holding serious competitors up. Seems like it could work, if you could get the club on board, and be ready for the shoot to run an extra couple of hours.

What are ya'lls thoughts?


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## CarbonExtreme (Jul 7, 2010)

This is how we're growing Archery down here in Texas. It's all about the kids. This pic below is from the Texas Archery Academy (non profit), This is a Saturday morning with wall to wall kids. You hook the kids, you hook the parents. Next thing you know it's a family sport and they're all telling their friends. Texas has been on fire these past few years setting records across the board for attendance and shoots. We have incredible State and District representatives and plenty of shoots and styles to choose from on the weekends. Some of the best facilities in the Nation are right here as well (TXAA, Cinnamon Creek Ranch etc).

Advertising is all over, via groupon, TV, living social..you name it.

Proud to be a part of Texas and ASA Archery.


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## 12-RING SHOOTER (Jul 27, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> This ain't happening. Local shoots are just that, local and for the most part fun for those want to get together with friends and family. Big trophy event or money, yes, shotgun starts if the club wants and pairing is the right thing to do.
> I'd probably side step a club that wanted shotgun starts for all their 3D events. For most all the local 3Ds I attend I rarely walk on to the course before 9:00 am. Having excess to about 19 clubs within 1 hour of my house I can do this, shoot when I want to. I kind of partial to starting around 10:00 am.



and i would like to add, since local shoots are mainly for fun, attendence at these fun shoots would go down with shotgun starts, alot of FUN shooters work Saturdays, Alot of Fun shooters go to church sunday AMs, alot of younger people have partime jobs that work weekends, so they shoot when they can. Shotgun starts on local level would be stupid.

Lets not try making local fun shoots where your shooting for nothing but your name possibly on top of the standings into big tournaments. while all the RF talk is out, since most local shoots shoot for nothing, make a RF class so RFs are legal on the course? heck if there going to bring them atleast give them a class to shoot?

One observation of mine from last summer, central Wi, pretty much no Rangefinders, clubs near my house like 5 attendance at shoots (terrible), southern part of the state, not sure on the number of clubs but quite a few RF legal and from what i noticed they had good turnouts, lots of familys.

Big tornament 3d has its place, ASA,IBO, Money tournaments ect.....but lets not try making every club use rules like the big tournaments..it will turn alot of shooter off to 3d. p.s Im one of them kids who works weekends, my dad works saturdays....we wouldnt shoot much if shotgun starts were the answer.

Xforce girl, I like what your doing .


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

If 3D archery as a whole doesn't adopt ONE set a rules all clubs and organizations follow everything we are talking about to help archery will not work!! How many other sports can you name that sets its own rules depending on the location.. Not baseball, football, basketball, golf, even bowling etc...If we don't have one universal set of rules you can chase your tail until the end of time...


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

This was the type of discussion I was hoping to spark. ttt


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Here is what has taken Texas from 6 ASA Clubs in 2004 to 30 ASA clubs in 2012. 

Enthusiam-If your leadership is enthusiastic your clubs and shooters will be enthusiastic. Get a SOY program started. Give shooters a reason and a goal to attend more shoots. 

Consistency-It is important to make sure all clubs run the shoots the same. My wife and I or our reps are at every shoot to make sure this happens. We are fortuante here in Texas because we have 30 ASA clubs and we are all on the same page. Our ASA program requires 10:00am shotgun starts, we do our best to make sure groups are paired fairly, we run a fast efficient registration, and we present the awards as soon as the scores are tabulated. We post scores on the Texas ASA Federation website the next day. Take a look at our website www.texasasafederation.com

Discipline-We chrono all adult and youth classes. We check stabilizers lengths in classes that have stabilizer limitations. We will most likely be checking binos this weekend.. I have DQ'ed enough shooters over the years that they know we are serious about enforcing the rules.

The above items along with a lot of hard work will get results. We have led the nation in ASA state level attendance for the last several years. We have already had 262 shooters at one state qualifier and 284 shooters at another this year. We are expecting 400 shooters at the Texas state champonship this year. 

If you ever need any help give us a shout. We are always willing to help. :thumbs_up


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cenochs said:


> If 3D archery as a whole doesn't adopt ONE set a rules all clubs and organizations follow everything we are talking about to help archery will not work!! How many other sports can you name that sets its own rules depending on the location.. Not baseball, football, basketball, golf, even bowling etc...If we don't have one universal set of rules you can chase your tail until the end of time...


Each organization has it's rules, you go by them or you don't shoot. Our club has it's club rules in place for the majority of our shooters, not for the ASA, the NFAA or IBO. There's club out there that would love to have 50 or 65 shooters. Our club keeps having around 140 shooters per shoot average, sometimes reaching into the 200 realm. We ain't changing.
And it's same with targets. We ain't dropping our Rineharts to satisfy ASA or IBO people.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Seems some want rules for their own personal agenda.
Here's something to think about;
I doubt the following has changed all that much. I spoke with Jay Barrs some time back. Jay was the head of ArrrowSport, PR branch of the ATA. Here was the break down and our conclusion. Some 3.5 million archers in the U.S. and some 60,000 belonging to the big archery organizations (NFAA, ASA, IBO, etc.). I don't really have to spell it out, but here was Jay and my conclusion; "The vast majority of archers don't want to complete on a higher level. They just want a place to shoot, to have fun."


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## tagmaster10 (Jan 26, 2011)

Tallcatt said:


> Here is what has taken Texas from 6 ASA Clubs in 2004 to 30 ASA clubs in 2012.
> 
> Enthusiam-If your leadership is enthusiastic your clubs and shooters will be enthusiastic. Get a SOY program started. Give shooters a reason and a goal to attend more shoots.
> 
> ...


Well said Mike. I think both Texas and Oklahoma have very strong programs and the numbers are growing every year. On another thread, I said that I would be willing to pay more for entries if the money was used for more officials to enforce the rules and stop the "score what you want" problem that seems to be at most of the ASA shoots that I go to lately. I like to shoot with my friends as much as the next guy, but we are harder on ourselves when it comes to scoring than others are on us. If everyone would show the sport the respect that it deserves, it would be more fun for new and less talented shooters like myself.


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## deepsprayj (Nov 4, 2011)

Amen to that. Lets go back to having fun and teaching the youngsters

I am blessed with a wife that shares my addictions


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## brownstonebear (Apr 10, 2006)

deepsprayj said:


> Amen to that. Lets go back to having fun and teaching the youngsters
> 
> I agree. Have fun and teach the young.The young are the key to keep the sport growing.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Tallcatt said:


> Here is what has taken Texas from 6 ASA Clubs in 2004 to 30 ASA clubs in 2012.
> 
> Enthusiam-If your leadership is enthusiastic your clubs and shooters will be enthusiastic. Get a SOY program started. Give shooters a reason and a goal to attend more shoots.
> 
> ...


This is awesome. I would love to take Virginia's ASA to a level like this. Granted our state is not nearly as big as Texas but, we have a lot of fine shooters here
Its just hard when there seems to be only a handful of us who want to do the work.
Love what you all have done in Texas


Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


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## SET THE HOOK (Dec 30, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Seems some want rules for their own personal agenda.
> Here's something to think about;
> I doubt the following has changed all that much. I spoke with Jay Barrs some time back. Jay was the head of ArrrowSport, PR branch of the ATA. Here was the break down and our conclusion. Some 3.5 million archers in the U.S. and some 60,000 belonging to the big archery organizations (NFAA, ASA, IBO, etc.). I don't really have to spell it out, but here was Jay and my conclusion; "The vast majority of archers don't want to complete on a higher level. They just want a place to shoot, to have fun."


Exactly! Get more involved and more shooting 3d and possibly the # of members to big orgs and associations will increase? Having fun will lead to more involvement in the sport. 

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk


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## chelletx (Mar 27, 2012)

I am new, but have been lurking for a while, trying to learn everything I can- because honestly, I dont know a thing, BUT, am opening a club here in East Texas for the kids- (its going to be open to the public on a donation basis and for tournaments, so we can keep it FREE for the youth) 

and I agree- the best thing we can do is make it a family event. you would be suprised at the parents who go out and buy bows and start shooting with their kids when i tell them that I, as an instructor, WANT them on the line with their kids, want them out there having fun and participating, instead of spectating like at a baseball game. 

Granted, we do alot of 4H stuff with ours, where its JUST the kids in the competitions, but, I also am looking at the big picture, and the future- get EVERYONE involved and you stand to keep more of the family around. IMHO


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

The best way to grow the sport is a program we came up with in ASA...... Bring a Friend along. Then that friend to bring a friend....and so on.


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

ttt

Good point getting the families and kids involved.
As for the statement that folks just need a place to shoot and have fun, while I agree that aspect does need to be met. I feel there are a lot of us archers that need that competitive outlet as well.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

I believe that the largest potential pool of new 3D shooters is made up of the more casual bowhunters. The folks who spend a significant amount of time every season hunting but rarely shoot 3D. Many of these folks are trying to not lose 4 of their 6 arrows at a single event or are insecure about shooting less then brand new equipment against what they perceive are target archers with new target equipment. I believe that if you find a way for these folks to feel both welcome and comfortable you could have a good opportunity for growth.


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

That is a point, getting the two styles to share the field comfortably. One of the reasons why the classes have been split out they way they have.

Another reason I brought up having an event with two start times. One for the serious competitor, and the other for the recreation shooter.


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## hatchettjack (Jan 16, 2012)

I myself dont feel comfortable around the high class target shooters. They just are not my type of people. Most of my friends feel the same way. We would much rather shoot in our own backyards! Nothing worse than standing around for hours watching a bunch of azzhats taking 10 minutes looking at a 32 yard target with binos. There are way more bowhunters than target shooters, yet target shooters are who yall cater too! Also we dont particularly enjoy paying money, so the same few professionals can have a payday every weekend! So we just buy our own targets, have cookouts, drink a few beers, enjoy our families and have an awesome time! 

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

There are time limits set at the stakes for ASA and IBO if memory serves. The club I shoot at allows archers to pass a group that is holding them up, and come back to the target later. I understand the philosophical between the recreational bowhunter shooting 3D as a hobby, and the serious competitor and target shooter. What I am trying to come up with are ways to please both crowds and get both attendance up at the local matches and membership numbers up at the club as a whole.

The club I belong to has 15 targets out 24/7 for those that want to shoot 3D as a hobby, and two very informal 3D leagues (indoor in the winter once a week, moving to outdoor with scores turned in once a week). Our monthly shoots that are open to the public, have no cash awards.

The sport of 3D has been successful, its almost killed field archery in parts of the country. What do we do to take the sport to the next level?


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

jcs-bowhunter said:


> I believe that the largest potential pool of new 3D shooters is made up of the more casual bowhunters. The folks who spend a significant amount of time every season hunting but rarely shoot 3D. Many of these folks are trying to not lose 4 of their 6 arrows at a single event or are insecure about shooting less then brand new equipment against what they perceive are target archers with new target equipment. I believe that if you find a way for these folks to feel both welcome and comfortable you could have a good opportunity for growth.


That's a good point.

For every one 3D shooter...there may be 20 normal bowhunters out there. I am a normal bowhunter and I have no idea how to even find an event let alone get registered or attend. I went to one Vegas spot tournament to try and get started in the other side of archery besides just bowhunting. I felt uncomfortable and people were just staring at us with our little camo bows. Overall...it was a neat experience but I am not sure I would do it again.


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

ttt


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

TheScOuT said:


> That's a good point.
> 
> For every one 3D shooter...there may be 20 normal bowhunters out there. I am a normal bowhunter and I have no idea how to even find an event let alone get registered or attend. I went to one Vegas spot tournament to try and get started in the other side of archery besides just bowhunting. I felt uncomfortable and people were just staring at us with our little camo bows. Overall...it was a neat experience but I am not sure I would do it again.


There several ways to find a 3D event, 3dshoots, bowsite and here on AT. For regular club shoots registering is nothing more telling your name to get your class and score card and signing a Waiver once per year. Your regular hunting rig will suffice very well, sans broadheads. Bring binoculars and prepare to have fun.
Most shoots in my area have 7 am starts and a must be on the course by 12 noon.
Having no one with you, tell the club and most will put you with a knowledgeble shooter or group. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

Your indoor experience is felt by most, but I must say you surely couldn't have had the uncomfortable feeling I went through. I had never been to this indoor range and then IAA Indoor Qualifier and the dreaded Vegas face. I felt packed on the line like a sardine in can. Guy beside me growls that my arrows are invading his space. Someone down the line turns loose a wild shot that hits a steel door (try shotgun blast) and does it again a little later. At the target the score caller points to a arrow and the same jerk beside me screams; "DON'T TOUCH THAT ARROW!" I mean he screams so that everybody hears him. Later the same jerk shoots all 3 of his arrows into the #1 target face. Scoring arrows he is questioned and again he shouts out; "IT'S MY TARGET. I CAN SHOOT IT ANY WAY I WANT!" Yes, he can shoot all his in one target face, but he did this just because he wanted to show his assssatude.
Probably the only saving grace was I finished 5th, so not too bad. BUT! The experience had me forgo shooting another indoor for quite awhile. I overcame that night and went to shoot in others and even shoot and finish 3rd twice in the State Championships.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

WhitBri said:


> As we all know to make 3D a bigger sport it starts with money, money has to come from sponsers, sponsers only donate if they will get their name out to a lot of people, to get their names in front of a lot of people you have to have large attendance for the shoot and even better TV broadcast. Attendance issue first: I think the vast majority of people that go to the local shoots go to practice for hunting, well practicing for hunting and the tournement styles of 3d conflict with each other. We need to get more people to shoot with the tournement style in mind, starts with the people setting up the shoots and goes from there. We need to push local clubs to pick a set of rules and go by them. In Iowa its a crap shoot as to what you will get for rules, max yardages, target placement, etc. We also need to get more young people in the sport and show them how great it is. In doing this we all need to conduct ourselves in a very professional manner.
> Don't know if it will ever get to the point we see it on TV but it would be great to see


To get the money from those that have it to give as sponsors you have to build their 'percieved demand'. If they don't see the demand they are not going to give the money. So now...how do you suggest doing that?


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

cenochs said:


> Local clubs need to just have the range open on the weekend and stop pretending to have big tournaments when they have a weekend shoot. Stop paying back money except a state or regional shoot.. It's just like golf I play allot and when I go I go to practice and have fun I don't exspect to win 20$... We as archers have hurt ourselves by paying back money on weekend shoots just to get shooters.. How long would a golf course stay open if they had to pay back just to get people out?
> 
> We need one universal set of rules for all 3D! I should be able to shoot in California or Kentucky and know the rules will be the same.. This part of 3D archery is a joke...
> 
> ...


This is a good post! :thumbs_up Some good ideas here.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Big Johnc said:


> Telling more about it is a good way to make it grow. Here in Georgia We do a week in review youtube spot.
> http://www.youtube.com/user/georgiaarchery This helps everyone know whats going on with Archery in Georgia.
> $$ is key also. Just look at any sport on TV today. Prize $$ make people more want to try, Sponers want to market to large crowds.
> So pay out and crowds will come to try it and Sponers will come to market to the crowds.
> For me its not about the $$. I love the sport. I teach kids archery at 4H, NASP, JOAD.


Do you guys use 3D targets with your kids? All of those organizations will benefit greatly by using 3d as a larger part of their venue. Try it!


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

CarbonExtreme said:


> This is how we're growing Archery down here in Texas. It's all about the kids. This pic below is from the Texas Archery Academy (non profit), This is a Saturday morning with wall to wall kids. You hook the kids, you hook the parents. Next thing you know it's a family sport and they're all telling their friends. Texas has been on fire these past few years setting records across the board for attendance and shoots. We have incredible State and District representatives and plenty of shoots and styles to choose from on the weekends. Some of the best facilities in the Nation are right here as well (TXAA, Cinnamon Creek Ranch etc).
> 
> Advertising is all over, via groupon, TV, living social..you name it.
> 
> ...



What specific 3D advertising do you do? How do you expose the kids to that? How do you 'sell the adults' that are paying for the kids shooting that 3d is inexpensive?


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

cenochs said:


> If 3D archery as a whole doesn't adopt ONE set a rules all clubs and organizations follow everything we are talking about to help archery will not work!! How many other sports can you name that sets its own rules depending on the location.. Not baseball, football, basketball, golf, even bowling etc...If we don't have one universal set of rules you can chase your tail until the end of time...


Poker uses different rule sets and does very well.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

bhtr3d said:


> The best way to grow the sport is a program we came up with in ASA...... Bring a Friend along. Then that friend to bring a friend....and so on.


Ahhh...'Network Marketing"! Are you Amway distributers too? :wink: It is a great way to do it!


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> Seems some want rules for their own personal agenda.
> Here's something to think about;
> I doubt the following has changed all that much. I spoke with Jay Barrs some time back. Jay was the head of ArrrowSport, PR branch of the ATA. Here was the break down and our conclusion. Some 3.5 million archers in the U.S. and some 60,000 belonging to the big archery organizations (NFAA, ASA, IBO, etc.). I don't really have to spell it out, but here was Jay and my conclusion; "The vast majority of archers don't want to complete on a higher level. They just want a place to shoot, to have fun."


I disagree with the conclusion. Just how many of those 3.5 million archers were actually asked _*what they wanted*_?


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

jcs-bowhunter said:


> I believe that the largest potential pool of new 3D shooters is made up of the more casual bowhunters. The folks who spend a significant amount of time every season hunting but rarely shoot 3D. Many of these folks are trying to not lose 4 of their 6 arrows at a single event or are insecure about shooting less then brand new equipment against what they perceive are target archers with new target equipment. I believe that if you find a way for these folks to feel both welcome and comfortable you could have a good opportunity for growth.


 Jcs-bowhunter were you reading my mind? :wink: Are you gonna join our travelling 3D Bowhunters league this summer? PM me for details.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

hatchettjack said:


> I myself dont feel comfortable around the high class target shooters. They just are not my type of people. Most of my friends feel the same way. We would much rather shoot in our own backyards! Nothing worse than standing around for hours watching a bunch of azzhats taking 10 minutes looking at a 32 yard target with binos. There are way more bowhunters than target shooters, yet target shooters are who yall cater too! Also we dont particularly enjoy paying money, so the same few professionals can have a payday every weekend! So we just buy our own targets, have cookouts, drink a few beers, enjoy our families and have an awesome time!
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


Another good post! IBO,ASA,NFAA are you reading this? Thanks for posting this hatchettjack!
You national organizers need to start listening to guys like him!


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

TheScOuT said:


> That's a good point.
> 
> For every one 3D shooter...there may be 20 normal bowhunters out there. I am a normal bowhunter and I have no idea how to even find an event let alone get registered or attend. I went to one Vegas spot tournament to try and get started in the other side of archery besides just bowhunting. I felt uncomfortable and people were just staring at us with our little camo bows. Overall...it was a neat experience but I am not sure I would do it again.


Someone with some clout with the ASA,IBO, and NFAA please get the head of those organizations to read this stuff!!! If you work in retail, are a 3D shooter nut, and ask questions of your customers you already know this!!!!!


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> There several ways to find a 3D event, 3dshoots, bowsite and here on AT. For regular club shoots registering is nothing more telling your name to get your class and score card and signing a Waiver once per year. Your regular hunting rig will suffice very well, sans broadheads. Bring binoculars and prepare to have fun.
> Most shoots in my area have 7 am starts and a must be on the course by 12 noon.
> Having no one with you, tell the club and most will put you with a knowledgeble shooter or group. Don't be afraid to ask questions.
> 
> ...


So why not rethink and reorganize these events to accomodate a more positive experience for the shooters? Starting with making it easy and consistent to find local shoots.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

cenochs said:


> Local clubs need to just have the range open on the weekend and stop pretending to have big tournaments when they have a weekend shoot. Stop paying back money except a state or regional shoot.. It's just like golf I play allot and when I go I go to practice and have fun I don't exspect to win 20$... We as archers have hurt ourselves by paying back money on weekend shoots just to get shooters.. How long would a golf course stay open if they had to pay back just to get people out?
> 
> We need one universal set of rules for all 3D! I should be able to shoot in California or Kentucky and know the rules will be the same.. This part of 3D archery is a joke...
> 
> ...


All of this...

except for the dirty diaper... you're on your own there.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Mac of Michigan said:


> I disagree with the conclusion. Just how many of those 3.5 million archers were actually asked _*what they wanted*_?


It was a stated fact of how many archers there were and how many belong to the bigger organizations. 60,000 belonging to or so and 3,440,000 not belonging to gave the conclusion. However should want to go out poll the 3.5 million archers, have at it.
Personally, I respect Jay Barrs as a well known archer and a person who had excess to resources accumulated by the Archery Trade Association.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Mac of Michigan said:


> So why not rethink and reorganize these events to accomodate a more positive experience for the shooters? Starting with making it easy and consistent to find local shoots.


I have to ask, did you read what I had?
I gave insight for finding shoots. I gave insight of what to use and what usual start times are. I gave my own personal account of my first bigger indoor event. Every body who has ever went from some hole-in-the-wall indoor range and jumped to a higher level indoor probably had the jitters as I did, to one degree or another.


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## hatchettjack (Jan 16, 2012)

brownstonebear said:


> deepsprayj said:
> 
> 
> > Amen to that. Lets go back to having fun and teaching the youngsters
> ...


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

hatchettjack said:


> I myself dont feel comfortable around the high class target shooters. They just are not my type of people. Most of my friends feel the same way. We would much rather shoot in our own backyards! Nothing worse than standing around for hours watching a bunch of azzhats taking 10 minutes looking at a 32 yard target with binos. There are way more bowhunters than target shooters, yet target shooters are who yall cater too! Also we dont particularly enjoy paying money, so the same few professionals can have a payday every weekend! So we just buy our own targets, have cookouts, drink a few beers, enjoy our families and have an awesome time!
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


I totally disagree with this. Why are we not your type of people. Apparently you havent shot around alot of us. I love this sport because of all the people I have met and become friends with through this sport. To be negative in anyway towards the guys that take it really serious is nonsense. We have fun but at the same time take it serious. I am gonna glass the target as long as the rules state because I want to make a perfect shot and score well. If you were bowhunting wouldnt you want to make a perfect shot. Practice perfect usually results in perfect shots. Also thats why there are so many classes. The organizations cater to all the different classes. 
I also disagree with drinking beer around kids while shooting archery. If its all adults its one thing but why teach kids that its ok to drink and shoot archery.
I love getting new people started in any venue of archery.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

hatchettjack said:


> I myself dont feel comfortable around the high class target shooters. They just are not my type of people. Most of my friends feel the same way. We would much rather shoot in our own backyards! Nothing worse than standing around for hours watching a bunch of azzhats taking 10 minutes looking at a 32 yard target with binos. There are way more bowhunters than target shooters, yet target shooters are who yall cater too! Also we dont particularly enjoy paying money, so the same few professionals can have a payday every weekend! So we just buy our own targets, have cookouts, drink a few beers, enjoy our families and have an awesome time!
> Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


First, higher level target shooters are just as friendly and helpfull as any other archer. If you and your friends are intimidated by them, get over it.

Granted, some target shooters take more time to shoot a target than others, but 10 minutes a little hard to believe. If such a person were to use that much time I'd by-pass him and I'd report him to the club.

Yes, there are more bowhunters than target shooters. Most clubs I know do not cater to target shooters. If they did the club would go broke. BUT! Of this thread a few are ticked off because they can't get bowhunters to compete. Tough. That's the way it is.

And I agree with many not wanting to pay to be a "filler," a "also ran." Why compete when you know you can't win or just don't like shooting higher level events. Again, a few in here are ticked off because they can't stand the idea that the vast majority of archers don't want to compete at a higher level.

I have no problem with a group of people buying their own targets and having fun. But, I'd low key the drinking.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> It was a stated fact of how many archers there were and how many belong to the bigger organizations. 60,000 belonging to or so and 3,440,000 not belonging to gave the conclusion. However should want to go out poll the 3.5 million archers, have at it.
> Personally, I respect Jay Barrs as a well known archer and a person who had excess to resources accumulated by the Archery Trade Association.


I get it! I've been aware of those stats for years. So why then are the stats stagnant? Hmm? I respect Jay and the ATA. I don't have to poll over 3 million archers to get the info I need. But I do have to ask a large enough number of non involved bowhunters why they don't shoot 3d.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> I have to ask, did you read what I had?
> I gave insight for finding shoots. I gave insight of what to use and what usual start times are. I gave my own personal account of my first bigger indoor event. Every body who has ever went from some hole-in-the-wall indoor range and jumped to a higher level indoor probably had the jitters as I did, to one degree or another.


I did read what you wrote. The original posters title is: "How do we as Archers grow the sport of 3D?" My focus is on the title of this thread.

Sonny If you are implying in your later posts that I am "ticked off" that more bowhunters don't compete then you are mistaken. I am certain that a vast majority of them would enjoy it and are not being introduced to the sport. So..."How do we as Archers grow the sport of 3D?"

I do agree that most target folks are fun and just plain good to be around!


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

hatchettjack said:


> brownstonebear said:
> 
> 
> > No the key is getting the ones who pay!
> ...


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Jame said:


> I totally disagree with this. Why are we not your type of people. Apparently you havent shot around alot of us. I love this sport because of all the people I have met and become friends with through this sport. To be negative in anyway towards the guys that take it really serious is nonsense. We have fun but at the same time take it serious. I am gonna glass the target as long as the rules state because I want to make a perfect shot and score well. If you were bowhunting wouldnt you want to make a perfect shot. Practice perfect usually results in perfect shots. Also thats why there are so many classes. The organizations cater to all the different classes.
> I also disagree with drinking beer around kids while shooting archery. If its all adults its one thing but why teach kids that its ok to drink and shoot archery.
> 
> 
> I love getting new people started in any venue of archery.


I agree with this.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Start sepperating 3D archery from hunting would be one way. Many parents who are anti hunting will avoid letting their kids shoot 3D, we have such people at our club. Make it seen as a sport in it's own right not just something hunters do to practice. Move the pegs back so the targets are more in line with field distances will help to do this.
Go to the UK and you will see a 40 target 3D shoot every Sunday, all are pre book and pre pay, all or most get 170 shooters plus reserves booked in and if you don't book in a couple months before hand, forget it. There is no hunting in the UK so more families from every background seem to be coming into the sport as it is viewed as target archery using animal targets, not simulated hunting.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

Bigjono said:


> Start sepperating 3D archery from hunting would be one way. Many parents who are anti hunting will avoid letting their kids shoot 3D, we have such people at our club. Make it seen as a sport in it's own right not just something hunters do to practice. Move the pegs back so the targets are more in line with field distances will help to do this.
> Go to the UK and you will see a 40 target 3D shoot every Sunday, all are pre book and pre pay, all or most get 170 shooters plus reserves booked in and if you don't book in a couple months before hand, forget it. There is no hunting in the UK so more families from every background seem to be coming into the sport as it is viewed as target archery using animal targets, not simulated hunting.



Good point but I disagree. If they dont want to shoot 3d archery then dont. Shoot field or indoor. Hunters is what invented the sport of 3d archery so IMO it should be 3d animals.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Mac of Michigan said:


> I get it! I've been aware of those stats for years. So why then are the stats stagnant? Hmm? I respect Jay and the ATA. I don't have to poll over 3 million archers to get the info I need. But I do have to ask a large enough number of non involved bowhunters why they don't shoot 3d.


You don't understand, don't get it. Someone is supporting archery clubs on the average of probably 50 to 75 shooter per week at several clubs across the nation. The number of shooters per week is in the thousands. Two local clubs within 30 miles of each other shot the same weekend. Total shooters exceeded 200. Just two clubs. How many clubs are in the U.S.? 
A lot of bowhunters are shooting 3D. You just can't see them because the numbers aren't posted anywhere.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Jame, this is about growing 3D archery not telling people not to shoot it.


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## Hallsway (Jan 16, 2009)

Everyone ask themselves, "How many people have I introduced to 3D Archery in the past 5 years?" 

Does anyone remember how intimidated, or unsure you felt at your first big shoot? I was an adult when I went to my 1st big shoot in Bedford Indiana in 1998. No one invited me and no one took me under there wing, and boy was I intimidated / embarassed. Some people at this point (my first wife) would never go back. While some people (myself) would go back to the drawing board and try again. 
I still remember that feeling to this day, and I don't want that for anyone just getting started in the sport. I try to invite, mentor, encourage, and help everyone I can due to that 1st experience. So please remember this and help the new people.
If I had one thing to say to "Veterans of the sport" of the sport is at the next big shoot you attend invite someone new. Encourage them during there doubts, help them along when your expert opinion matters. If everyone did this at there next big shoot we might get somewhere. Because the newbie will become a veteran, and the cycle will begin again.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Hallsway said:


> Everyone ask themselves, "How many people have I introduced to 3D Archery in the past 5 years?"
> 
> Does anyone remember how intimidated, or unsure you felt at your first big shoot? I was an adult when I went to my 1st big shoot in Bedford Indiana in 1998. No one invited me and no one took me under there wing, and boy was I intimidated / embarassed. Some people at this point (my first wife) would never go back. While some people (myself) would go back to the drawing board and try again.
> I still remember that feeling to this day, and I don't want that for anyone just getting started in the sport. I try to invite, mentor, encourage, and help everyone I can due to that 1st experience. So please remember this and help the new people.
> If I had one thing to say to "Veterans of the sport" of the sport is at the next big shoot you attend invite someone new. Encourage them during there doubts, help them along when your expert opinion matters. If everyone did this at there next big shoot we might get somewhere. Because the newbie will become a veteran, and the cycle will begin again.


Great post! :thumbs_up


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## milkman38 (Mar 5, 2007)

very well put, u see so many experts trying to convince the novices they are the experts after the shoot is over. that gets old real fast, everyone of us can remember what it was like to jump in the deep end of the pool for the first time (looking back the deep end might have been 6 ft). everyone has someone that helped u get started just carry that on. it that simple


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Hallsway said:


> Everyone ask themselves, "How many people have I introduced to 3D Archery in the past 5 years?"
> Does anyone remember how intimidated, or unsure you felt at your first big shoot? I was an adult when I went to my 1st big shoot in Bedford Indiana in 1998. No one invited me and no one took me under there wing, and boy was I intimidated / embarassed. Some people at this point (my first wife) would never go back. While some people (myself) would go back to the drawing board and try again.
> I still remember that feeling to this day, and I don't want that for anyone just getting started in the sport. I try to invite, mentor, encourage, and help everyone I can due to that 1st experience. So please remember this and help the new people.
> If I had one thing to say to "Veterans of the sport" of the sport is at the next big shoot you attend invite someone new. Encourage them during there doubts, help them along when your expert opinion matters. If everyone did this at there next big shoot we might get somewhere. Because the newbie will become a veteran, and the cycle will begin again.


Good point, but will add.....

I know what intimidation is, scary, if you want. For my first bigger indoor event I had been shooting some indoor and I went with a veteran and it was still intimidating. Same with my first 3D. I went with a veteran and it didn't help stop me from missing my first target out, a giant caribou (look giant at the time).

So newbie in general will be intimidated to one degree or another and the only way to get over it is keep going. It's no different than any other walk in life. I once helped put on a archery introduction class at a high school. Never done it before thing for me. First time, standing out in front of 50 or so kids and two or three teachers on hand. Try that and you'll feel just like I did, wanting to escape big time. The next two classes went far better or least I knew what to expect.

I belong to two clubs and both try to help the new shooter. We try to put the newbie with a knowledgeable shooter, whether 3D or Field.

Already said here or the other similar Post, the ASA has a "bring a friend" going on.

I've said often here to others, when going to your first 3D or first few tell the club. They can't help if they are not aware that you are new to shooting.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> Good point, but will add.....
> 
> ... when going to your first 3D or first few tell the club. They can't help if they are not aware that you are new to shooting.


Good suggestion. It may help to ask the administrators for help too.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Something else that I see not being done. To help archers to become better clubs should be willing to put on different classes. No, not some archery coach for instructing. I'm talking basics; form, draw length, draw weight, gripping the bow, judging yardage or whatever. A short walk through/shooting of 3D targets would be nice - 5 or 10 would suffice in most instances.

I'll tell you first hand you can't and you won't correct all, but will help some. Some will give you the hint you're not telling them how to shoot, so back off. No sense in making them mad. If you're instructing a class and someone won't listen or follow instructions ask that person to leave.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZIyjSRGonU

The Europeans are doing it with field archery. It can be done with 3D. Watch this video. I found this another thread here at AT.


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

You will not get the parents that are anti-hunting to allow their kids to shoot at foam animal 3D targets, and the sport needs to maintain that separation. 3D is about shooting foam animals, and the like. These parents reserve the right to keep their kids out of such sports they don't agree with.

I do my best to drum up support for the sport and events where I work. May have a new 3D shooter (bowhunter for years) joining me next month we'll see.

Lets continue this conversation on the topic of growing the sport.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

colo_dually said:


> You will not get the parents that are anti-hunting to allow their kids to shoot at foam animal 3D targets, and the sport needs to maintain that separation. 3D is about shooting foam animals, and the like. These parents reserve the right to keep their kids out of such sports they don't agree with.
> 
> I do my best to drum up support for the sport and events where I work. May have a new 3D shooter (bowhunter for years) joining me next month we'll see.
> 
> Lets continue this conversation on the topic of growing the sport.


I get that there are some parents that keep kids out of 3D for that reason. I don't mind challenging them. I ask if they eat at McDonalds and then if they eat meat. Usually by then they know where I am going with it. Processed meat is not always 'humanely' harvested. Most of the parents that use that excuse that I talk to are lazy, selfish, or misguided when it comes to taking the time to understand what is really being discussed. I have a brief and concise rebuttle so that at least the kid hears my perspective. I've had several kids a couple of years later - including my wealthy, powerful, liberal, ant-hunting cousins' kids ask me to teach them to shoot. I gently stated to my cousin that it was safe, that if he really wanted an honest assessment of deer kill reality he needed to participate in a DNR sponsored winter kill count. I did that in high school and saw dead starved deer and that changed my mind. His kids heard that and then later their buddies all shared hunting stories and they saw the truth for themselves. 
The other thing I consistantly find is that my students don't all want to hunt. I have asked them if they would be bothered by shooting animal targets and they have all said no. I follow that up by repeating the conversation to their parents and I have several of them signed up for summer 3d league - with their anti-hunting parents blessing.
As far as 'seperation' goes I don't agree with that as I see them (the anti-hunters) as disrespecting me and my perspective and at the same time insisting that I respect theirs. No way will I tolerate that hypocrisy. I do my best to keep it from becoming 'verbally combative' too. Can't say I've won all the battles - but I've won my share!
I had an experience in Detroit once that changed my perspective about respect. I feel sorry for some of the Detroit shooters I know. They put up with a lot of crap that we don't have to on my side of the state. I was a consultant with said cousin for a political campaign in Detroit. I met him there for a meeting after a shoot and had my shooter shirt and Khakis on. Some of the people we met with were apalled at my stance on hunting. That was an interesting meeting! I grew a different kind of...nads in about 6 seconds flat! My cousin almost ... well never mind. It was productive as the man we ended up managing won his election. My standing up to his misinformed staff and suggesting that they do a winter kill count before they spoke of something they truly did not understand was what sold him on hiring us. We thought we lost the account until two days later he called up and hired us.


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## colo_dually (Oct 11, 2011)

Mac, the two of us aren't going to agree on this one. I for one do not intend to lecture you how your method of representing the sport, maybe pushing away more shooters that it will gain. Some we brand as anti-hunters are simply those that do not intend to hunt themselves, as is their right in this country, without adversely impacting our sport. If they don't want their children to hunt, or be associated in hunting, it is not our place to circumvent their parenting and push hunting on the kids as you suggest.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Mac of Michigan said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZIyjSRGonU
> 
> The Europeans are doing it with field archery. It can be done with 3D. Watch this video. I found this another thread here at AT.


Two different continental attitudes, maybe. Check in the Martin Forums through the Martin website - not here. There is a UK archer member there that can give details. They have a interesting... Well, one archery event lasts days and days.

On the Light Side;
BAN GOLF! They did it in Scotland, abet a few centuries ago. " In Scotland the game was banned by King James II because the game was distracting people's attention from the game of Archery."


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

For regards to the other countries and to the USA..... I think the other countries are going to see how 3d is done here , I think a little different then what they have been accustom to seeing. This is in part of when 2013 and the 3d fita world championships will be held finally here in the states.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

colo_dually said:


> Mac, the two of us aren't going to agree on this one. I for one do not intend to lecture you how your method of representing the sport, maybe pushing away more shooters that it will gain. Some we brand as anti-hunters are simply those that do not intend to hunt themselves, as is their right in this country, without adversely impacting our sport. If they don't want their children to hunt, or be associated in hunting, it is not our place to circumvent their parenting and push hunting on the kids as you suggest.


Well if you want to call it circumventing their parenting so be it. I don't push anything on anyone. I am assertive when I am challenged and if that offends then that is the price payed. And you are certainly entitled to your opinion! But so far it has proven very effective in building our local numbers at the shoots in the area. I am sensitive to how much I can push and most of the time I use questions to raise awareness. You might want to try it sometime. You ever do a winter kill count? You may not agree with me - and that is fine. I see a firm stance against hunting as being misinformed and for whatever reason mostly based on a lack of understanding. When I was in Detroit those people were abrasive and insulting. I am niether. I was and when pushed will continue to be assertive.


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## Hallsway (Jan 16, 2009)

I am bringing 2-5 brand new shooters to Bedford this year. Last year I brought one, the year before that I brought three. Just think if everyone did that???????


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Hallsway said:


> I am bringing 2-5 brand new shooters to Bedford this year. Last year I brought one, the year before that I brought three. Just think if everyone did that???????


Good job!!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Of course getting more shooters involved in 3D is no different than spot shooters wanting more people involved shooting Indoors and Field. I feel spot shooters are dropping the ball here. Where to do draw from to get spot shooters? At the local archery club shooting 3D. I tried and our IAA dropped the ball. Real simple. The IAA had/has the portable target bunkers. Set these up at the 3D ranges on shoot days for all to see and put on a spot shoot during the weekend. I had indoor shooters that would shoot this. I would have had a bowhunter class going big time. I would have had the normal 300 contest shortened to 100 and this due to the fact bowhunters don't like long drawn out 60 shot indoors. I even offered all money taken would go to the IAA if some IAA person or Officer would run it.
So what'd our IAA come up with? They wanted rent on the bunkers! This Run & Gun spot shoot was for their benefit, not the club's! Dumb. Just plain dumb. 

People leave 3D every year and people get started shooting 3D every year. Some of my friends no longer shoot 3D and they shot 3D for years. 3 have not shot 3D for some 3 or 4 years, but still bowhunt. I will say that none of them placed or won and this sure didn't "charge up their batteries."

Bowhunters and 3D target shooters. Bowhunters comprise the vast majority of a club's 3D attendance. Those that shoot sanctioned 3D make a very small part of the attendance. Our club; Already said, we have 10 ASA shooters and maybe 5 shoot ASA sanctioned events. If on the national circuit we have 1 to 3 that will take in one national and 1 that shoots a majority of national events. it was no different when our club was with the NFAA. We had 5 NFAA members and only two of us (me and another) shot in the state sanctioned events on a regular basis and only once did the other shoot one national event.

Below figures are just plain rough, but can give a idea.....
If we just look around us, our local area, we don't see the number of bowhunters shooting 3D. I shoot at 3 to 5 local clubs per year. Some have a average of 50 and others around 85 and one 3D range that shoots every weekend averages around 50 to 60 (200 to 240 per month). I have a good idea they are more bowhunters shooting 3D than most think. So I used our club's average attendance over a 12 year period, 1166 per year. I minued off for clubs that don't have high attendance. I minued off overlapping shooters (shoot here,shoot there). And I minued off shooters that shoot sanctioned events. Rounding off I actually subtracted 266 shooters from our average. I then arrived at a average of 900 bowhunters per year. I took the two highest club member states, Illinois with 23 and Texas with 30. 53 times 900 = 47,700 bowhunters that shoot 3D.
Anyone thinks this is too high, cut it in half, 23,850 bowhunters shooting 3D from just two states. How many states have 3D? The ASA is in 33 States. (Rough&tumble) 33 times 23,850 = 787,050 bowhunters shooting 3D. Figure most states don't have that many ASA clubs so, cut the number in half again, 393,525 bowhunters shooting 3D.
Of course, there are the NFAA and IBO clubs and independant clubs that would have to be figured in. So would you double or triple the 393,525 number? Pick one; 787,050 or 1,180,575.

Again, these numbers are rough. Anyone else having real collective numbers, have at it. Again, the numbers I used from our club are documented, on record. I have monthly averages, yearly totals, yearly averages, and NFAA and ASA sanctioned event numbers.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Here's one way: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1738734. Great job!!


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## brownstonebear (Apr 10, 2006)

hatchettjack said:


> brownstonebear said:
> 
> 
> > > Also we dont paricularly enjoy paying the money.
> ...


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Bigjono said:


> Start sepperating 3D archery from hunting would be one way. Many parents who are anti hunting will avoid letting their kids shoot 3D, we have such people at our club. Make it seen as a sport in it's own right not just something hunters do to practice. Move the pegs back so the targets are more in line with field distances will help to do this.
> Go to the UK and you will see a 40 target 3D shoot every Sunday, all are pre book and pre pay, all or most get 170 shooters plus reserves booked in and if you don't book in a couple months before hand, forget it. There is no hunting in the UK so more families from every background seem to be coming into the sport as it is viewed as target archery using animal targets, not simulated hunting.


This is a great idea! I do this all the time - and it works!


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