# Upgrade from SF Forged Plus riser



## Rael84 (Feb 22, 2016)

If you're looking at the Zenit, you should also look at the Gillo G1. The risers are very similar, but the G1 has a little more adjustability and if you ever want to dabble with Barebow is second to none.


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## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

I was going to suggest a used GMX, since they pop up often enough and they're extremely similar to the Epik. But then I read your last sentence. Finding a lefty GMX is hard; I just went through that for a friend and it took us over a year to find one. Seems people are not very willing to part with their GMX's that easily if they're not a RH 25".

I'd personally also recommend looking for used CXT's or Inno/Nano Max risers. It's a different feel than the Epik/GMX, but I personally prefer it. They can also be had for reasonable prices, especially the CXT since it's older.


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## 10X Archer (Mar 7, 2016)

If your already shooting a sf forged and shooting the scores that you do, I wouldn't bother with another mid level riser. Your current riser won't hold you back from shooting low 300's at 70m in my opinion. If you want to upgrade I would save up for an Epik or similar high end riser. Maybe you can find a used one. I upgraded from a forged plus to a prodigy rx last year and I think it was a beneficial decision.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

I doubt your current riser is holding you back at all.
Upgrade if you want to, need is a word grossly overused when it comes to archery gear.


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

Curious why your coach this you should upgrade your riser? At our level (and age) I think the best reason to upgrade is "want to". I doubt that you will see an improvement is scores by getting a new riser. Also curious what limbs you are using? Are there things about teh Forged+ that you don't like? What about the rest of you kit?

Paul


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## Mengtian (May 5, 2016)

I started with SF Forge, went to Hoyt GMX.

Ya know what....your scores as a novice will not improve by getting another riser unless there is an ergonomic issue.


There are reasons for getting another riser. But improving your scores are not one of them IMO.

The only reason I changed is that I thought I might compete and improve in years and wanted a consistent platform.

I Still have my my SF forge and shot it last month for fun.....Not much of a difference LOL

One thing to consider is weight. SF Forge is lighter.


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## Josh1093 (Jul 3, 2016)

Im in almost the exact same boat. Lefty shooting a forged plus and wanting to upgrade. Almost the exact same time shooting and scores ... I?ve decided to hold out and save up for an Epik. Hoping to get another year out of my forged plus. 

Originally I was planning to get a used GMX, but similar experience as others have mentioned, extremely hard to find and if you do, not necessarily cheap. I considered trying a used HPX or Prodigy. They seem to appear in left handed models at good prices in the classifieds more frequently. I?m not keen to switch over to formula limbs though. 

I know several other archers who shoot forged plus risers that regularly wipe the floor with me at tournaments. 

I did upgrade to a new grip on my forged a few months ago. Almost like shooting a new bow and I did see a bump in scores when I switched to a higher grip. Maybe a way to try out something new while you wait for a deal or the new riser fund to get big enough.


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## chase128 (May 29, 2015)

toj said:


> I doubt your current riser is holding you back at all.
> Upgrade if you want to, need is a word grossly overused when it comes to archery gear.


+1 to this. In my opinion, riser upgrades for "performance" should be with directed purpose, whether it be for a specific desired feel or application. 
(i.e. barebow specific riser for weight options, different material for hand shock, different material for weight capacity, different design for less/more mass weight, different mounts available, a brand-specific aftermarket grip that has better ergonomic fit, or replacing a riser with a serious flaw like being cracked or badly twisted)

If you want to upgrade because you want something newer and shinier, that is a whole different thing, many many many of us have done that. (even to just get a specific color! I looove that new hoyt purple) 

However, if you are upgrading because you feel the SF Forged + is deficient, what is the "higher end" riser going to fix? 
The SF Forged+ is a very good riser for the cost. I personally do shoot an Epik, but I am sure my scores wouldn't be noticeably different shooting a well tuned forged+.


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## moomooholycow (Sep 15, 2016)

toj said:


> I doubt your current riser is holding you back at all.
> Upgrade if you want to, need is a word grossly overused when it comes to archery gear.


+1 more for this. Risers of this sort aren't much different. It's a chunk of aluminum with bites taken out of it to reduce weight...


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

To be fair to my coach, he did not say that I "need" to upgrade right now. What he said was that, based on what I'm shooting now, my next significant upgrade should be my riser. Our conversation went something like this:

Me: I've been considering buying a set of X-Busters for indoor shooting. What do you think?
Coach: Well... 
Me: I realize I'd probably need a second plunger to make switching back and forth easier, and I'd need to switch to an adjustable arrow rest.
Coach: Yes, but...
Me: Might be better if I just learn to shoot my X10s better, right?
Coach: (big smile)
Coach: Save your money on the arrows. Your next upgrade should be your riser.

I trust my coach 100%. He makes absolutely no money from my equipment purchases. He's never pushed me into any upgrade, but he's always been willing to suggest what my next upgrade should be when I've had the money.

I am fully aware that improvements to my form and consistency will bring far greater results than an equipment upgrade. The reason I'm asking now is that there is a used LH Best Zenit riser available that I may be able to get for a good price if I act quickly. Good used LH equipment is much rarer than RH equipment, so if this is an upgrade that makes sense, I need to make that decision in the next day or so.

Thank you to all who have responded so far.


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

Josh1093 said:


> I did upgrade to a new grip on my forged a few months ago. Almost like shooting a new bow and I did see a bump in scores when I switched to a higher grip. Maybe a way to try out something new while you wait for a deal or the new riser fund to get big enough.


I bought a Jager 2.0 Medium grip for my bow several months back and the change was amazing. It gave me exactly the feel I was looking for but not getting by playing with epoxy. The High grip wasn't available in LH at the time, so I didn't have to choose. I may go back and pick one up to compare, but I've been extremely happy with this upgrade. Definitely NOT a waste of money. I can't necessarily credit the grip with improving my scores--that's probably more a result of good coaching and lots of practice--but the improved feel has certainly contributed to more confidence on the line.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

See I disagree with the whole don't upgrade to improve your scores thing. Of course you "can" shoot high scores with almost any equipment if you are good enough. However, higher end equipment is straighter, it feels nicer, can have better balance (subjective), and can offer you more options for tuning and customization, and can improve confidence and urge to practice. I think you can upgrade to improve your scores, but the improvement comes from auxiliary attributes to the riser and not the riser itself. 

My two cents. I was just recently shooting an SF Forged plus and it was not even close to straight. I couldn't get the limbs to track in line with themselves, and the riser no matter how hard I tried. I got a new riser, and immediately put up better scores once it was tuned. 

your other equipment is super nice, and I think you should save up for a super nice riser to go with them. Wait till you can get something nice.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

K - 

Thanks for providing adequate information. 

I think you would do well with a better riser.
The SP F+ is a top choice for a new or intermediate level shooter, but it seems like you're beyond that.

The balance and rigidity of a higher end riser will only help. 
The things to consider are:
Your expectations of the new riser have to be realistic. You might gain a few points per match on average, but don't expect a 30 point jump.
Before you buy a new riser, you have to ask yourself, what do you think is lacking on the SF F+? 
If you can't answer that, then you might not be as ready for a new riser as you think. 

I mentioned a few things above, but native weight and balance and stiffness factor in, as does the grip, unless you plan on getting an after market or custom grip. There's also more flexibility in tuning with a higher end riser, but that may be minor. 

While I feel that getting opinions from people you don't know on the Internet is generally a bad idea, I'm going to throw mine in anyway. 
If you're on a budget, then a used riser may be the way to go, but you might need some patience. 
I like the older Hoyts, such as the Aerotec, Nexis, Helix etc. Each has it's own "feel" so you kind have to know what you're looking for. 

Viper1 out.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

As other mentioned, metal risers are pieces of auminium wiht holes ...only.

But of course you don't pay them by weight, you pay them by the features, finish and precision you want. 

Going up in poundage over 40# with a beginner's riser can be done if it is not a casted one, but then stability of the riser willl be at limits, with it most proababaly starting to bend and twist too much at full draw, with effects to tuning and consistency.

So >38# I ever suggest to change riser to a more stable one, that unavoidably will be heavier. All other considerations like geometry, adjustable features, grip shape comes second to this. As defined by another post, to change to a more stable platform. So your coach gave you the right suggestion, IMHO.

Best Zenit riser is solid, well made, have a lot of different matching grips avaible from Best, Gillo or Jager and assembled with your Winex limbs will be surely a good combination. If cheap, go for it to learn more about how a stiff riser with traditional geometry feels for you.


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

Viper1 said:


> K -
> 
> Before you buy a new riser, you have to ask yourself, what do you think is lacking on the SF F+?
> If you can't answer that, then you might not be as ready for a new riser as you think.
> ...


My coach has told me that I'm at the point that I will be able to feel and appreciate the difference between a higher-end riser and my SF F+. Having never shot with anything better than the SF F+, I really can't answer your question. However, I didn't ask my original question because I think I'm ready for (or "need") an upgrade. I asked because my coach told me the next upgrade I should be considering is a riser, and I have a very small window of opportunity to possibly pick up a Best Zenit inexpensively. 

Even if it's a half-upgrade, would it be worth doing? I suspect I could get most of my money back on the Zenit (along with a decent price for my SF F+) when it comes time to pay for the full upgrade. With a daughter a year and a half away from college, I don't see myself accumulating a closet full of no-longer-used equipment.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Kevin


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## damiaan (Feb 17, 2014)

PregnantGuppy said:


> Finding a lefty GMX is hard


http://www.bogensportinfo.de/board/viewtopic.php?t=38623

found one


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

I would say most anything that is a tournament quality riser will feel like an upgrade from the SF. I just upgraded as well, and all of the upgrade boxes are checked. I say buy the Zenit if it's in your price range, and see if you like it. I have always done really well on the classifieds here to buy it, try it, and resell if I don't like it for whatever reason. You only lose a little bit of money like you were renting it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

I vote buy the Zenit


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Kevin - 

Then I'm afraid you're going to have to try out a few risers - and unfortunately that nowhere near as easy as it sounds. 
That's compounded by the fact that only one or two shots will do more harm than good. 

A "half upgrade"? If you mean going to another intermediate level riser. then probably not, IMHO, of course. 
Seriously, I would try to figure out what you're looking for features and feel wise (that the SF F+ is lacking) and go high end on the used market. 

Viper1 out.


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

Viper1 said:


> A "half upgrade"? If you mean going to another intermediate level riser. then probably not, IMHO, of course.
> .


That was probably a poor choice of words. "Interim upgrade" would have been more accurate. 

It sounds like the Zenit might be an opportunity to try a higher-end riser at a good price while looking/saving for one of the risers suggested here (e.g. the Hoyt Epik). Assuming that I would be able to get back much of what I pay for it when I resell it after the "final" upgrade, it seems like a reasonable investment for the experience. Do you agree?

Thank you.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

There are some good risers on eBay also. There is a brand new CXT for like $570, a W&W Rapido for $275 (intermediate, but I bet it would still feel like an upgrade), a couple of Hoyts as well. 


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Kevin - 

If I were coaching you, I would discourage that idea. 

I would make a list of what you want from a "new" riser and then compare that to the reported qualities of what's on the market.
Find the closest match and then flip a coin. That wasn't meant to be "flippant" (pun intended), but should give you the best solution. 

I've been doing this for a few years now, and the odds on me buying a new riser (vs. a used one) are basically zero. 

BTW - the other obvious approach would be to buy and sell risers until you find one that works best for you, However, in my experience, people who do that typically never find the "right" riser.

Viper1 out.


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

Gregjlongbow said:


> There are some good risers on eBay also. There is a brand new CXT for like $570, a W&W Rapido for $275 (intermediate, but I bet it would still feel like an upgrade), a couple of Hoyts as well.


Unfortunately, almost all of these are right-handed (or Formula). 

I do almost everything in my life right handed except for aiming sports (archery, rifle/shotgun, billiards) due to being left-eye dominant. Oddly enough, my brother is exactly the opposite.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Oh duh. Sorry! Just listen to Tony. He knows what to do. 


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

First, let me say that I appreciate all of you who took the time to respond to my question. I considered everything that was said, and ultimately decided to place a last-minute $225 bid on the riser. I ended up winning the it for $203 with free shipping.

In the end, I was faced with two conflicting recommendations, each one supported by members whose opinions I have come to greatly respect since I started following this forum 2 years ago. 

I believe that Tony's advice for choosing my next riser is very good, but I don't think I could do a good job of listing the qualities that I am looking for until I have some idea what the differences are. My typical response to the question "what do you want?" is another question, "what are my choices?" 

In my brief career I have shot exactly two different risers: The wooden Optimo provided to beginners by the archery range where I started shooting, and the SF Forged Plus that I received for Christmas 3 months after I started shooting. So I really don't know what my choices are when it comes to what I want in a high-end riser. I have asked a number of people what they like or don't like about the risers they are shooting, and the answers generally come down to "feel." Not all that helpful when making an objective list.

To that end, Vittorio's advice to purchase the riser if I could get it cheaply in order to gain some experience with the "feel" of a high-end riser made sense to me. I'm hoping I can identify differences between my SF F+ and the Zenit and be able to articulate what I like and don't like. I don't expect this to be the last riser I buy, but I also don't expect to go through a lot of different risers before settling on one. $200 seems like a good investment, and even if it doesn't help me as much as I hope, I don't expect to lose a lot of money for having tried.

Thanks again to all who took the time to reply.

Kevin


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## Mushiroom (May 17, 2016)

It's really about the fell especially using the Forged+ because the riser is forged that will cause the material have more shock vibration and less damping.
Since you have used HMC+ for stabilizing, I expect the vibration have been reduced by the system in the rod, but still the changing of the riser will make difference, enjoy your new bow and feel!


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

kevwill said:


> First, let me say that I appreciate all of you who took the time to respond to my question. I considered everything that was said, and ultimately decided to place a last-minute $225 bid on the riser. I ended up winning the it for $203 with free shipping.
> 
> In the end, I was faced with two conflicting recommendations, each one supported by members whose opinions I have come to greatly respect since I started following this forum 2 years ago.
> 
> ...


Impressive assessment/analysis! Please update this thread once you've had enough time with the new riser to be able to describe the contrasting 'feel' of the two.


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

Good Deal ! PM me if you don't like it.


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

The riser arrived here in the Philippines yesterday, and I took it to Benel Archery today to set it up and try it for the first time. It took longer than I expected to get set up. 

Benel didn't have any M4 replacement screws or even full M4 clickers, but having asked in advance, I picked up a couple different styles and sizes of M4 screws at the hardware store before going to the range. The M4x10 hex head screw would have been perfect, but the hex head was bigger than the hex opening in the Beiter thumb nut. I ended up using an M4x10 hex cap screw. I'll pick up the Beiter M4 replacement screw kit with my next Lancaster order. 

The second issue I ran into was that the mounting screws for my Axcel sight were too long and bottoming out in the riser, leaving a little wobble in the sight mount. Earl from Benel found a couple spare screws and had one of his guys grind them down to the right length to securely mount my sight. After mounting the limbs and stringing the bow, the brace height was only 1/16" different than where I have been setting it for my SF Forged+. Draw weight OTF was also nearly identical with the existing limb bolt settings--40.9 pounds for the Best Zenit vs 41.2 for the SF Forged+. 

After that, I adjusted the AAE Champion rest that came with the riser for my arrows, then adjusted my plunger for center shot and I was ready to go.

Initial impressions: It definitely feels solid. It weighs about 8 ounces more than my SF Forged+ riser, and I could feel it right away. It came with two wood grips, medium and low. I went with medium. It's feels good in my hand, but it's quite a bit wider than the Jager 2.0 grip I've been shooting on my SF Forged+. It wasn't uncomfortable, but I definitely prefer the feel of my Jager grip and will be ordering one or two for this riser (medium and high).

I'll definitely need a new sight tape for this riser. There was a pretty significant change in my sight mark for 18 meters--the only distance I shot today. I'll be shooting outdoors tomorrow. I plan to do some bare shaft tuning at 30 meters, then switch to 70 meters. Given the very similar draw weights, I'm not expecting any major changes in my plunger stiffness (though I'm prepared to be proven wrong on this assumption). I wouldn't be surprised if I need to move my nocking point--which, in turn, will affect my sight marks.

My initial, very subjective, impressions of the riser are: 
1) It feels more solid than the SF Forged+. I'm assuming that this is because there is less vibration from the limbs being transmitted back to my hand after release, either because of the added mass, the geometry, or both. 
2) It seems a little quieter, but not by a lot. 
3) I didn't shoot any scoring rounds today, but my (again, very subjective) impression is that my good shots were grouping a little tighter, and my bad shots were, well, still bad shots. The riser clearly isn't a magic cure for poor form, but I wasn't expecting it to be. I can see the potential of picking up a few points here and there during a scoring round, and I'm excited to see the results as my form continues (hopefully) to improve.
4) By the end of the day, the additional weight was definitely becoming a factor. I have to increase my commitment to bow training on non-shooting days. I have picked up a couple 1kg ankle weights to strap to the riser during training. In the meantime, I can probably get away with removing an ounce or so off each side stabilizer since the riser helps move the COG rearward. And if I'm really desperate, I could swap out the adjustable V-bar for a non-adjustable carbon V-bar.
5) This riser has additional holes for adding weights/dampers in the lower front and lower rear, where the SF Forged+ does not. This gives me some additional tuning options to play around with.

At the end of Day 1, I'm definitely happy that I bought this riser.


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

kevwill said:


> Given the very similar draw weights, I'm not expecting any major changes in my plunger stiffness (though I'm prepared to be proven wrong on this assumption).


I thought I was prepared, but I wasn't ready for just how wrong I was.

Today I did some bare-shaft tuning at 30 meters. That was eye-opening, to say the least. Given the same draw length and almost exact same draw weight OTF, I didn't expect much variance. However, the first few shots indicated I was way under-spined. Stiffening the plunger almost to the limit still didn't help. I didn't have the spare parts for my plunger with me at the range, so I couldn't switch to a stiffer spring. We (my coach and I) ended up turning out the tiller bolts two full turns and got the bare shafts to group with the fletched arrows. No adjustment to my nocking point was needed. In the end, my coach was VERY happy with the way my arrows were flying--and reasonably happy with the direction I was shooting them.  

I was really surprised at these results. The Easton arrow sizing tool recommends shooting 650 spine with 40 lbs of draw at 28" and just goes to 600 when I bump up to 41 pounds. So if anything, I would have expected my arrows to show as too stiff--especially considering the oral tradition says that the Easton tool over-spines by at least one step. 

Thinking back to yesterday, I probably had some indication that things were going to be different--I had to move my sight way to the left to get to the center of the target at 18 meters. I noted the change but didn't connect it to plunger stiffness--just different setup and the fact that I finally started wearing a chest guard.

Can anybody offer any explanations on why my arrows would suddenly show as under-spined compared to my previous riser--enough so that I couldn't tune them using only the current (medium) spring? I think I wouldn't have been nearly as surprised if they showed a little over-spined, given the results from the Easton arrow selector tool.

Thank you.


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## yegon (Aug 15, 2017)

a heavier and/or stiffer riser does this to my arrows too (they show weak) probably because of delivering more of the energy from limbs into the arrow


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

K - 

Most likely reason is the limb pocket angle (bolt position) is different. 
While a stiffer and heavier riser can effect dynamic spine, the differences are usually minor. 
The first thing I would have done would have been to try tuning via limb bolt position (turning them OUT). 

Viper1 out.


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## kevwill (Sep 12, 2015)

Viper1 said:


> The first thing I would have done would have been to try tuning via limb bolt position (turning them OUT).


Thanks for the response. That's what finally got the fletched and bare-shaft arrows to group together--two full turns out. We didn't have to back out the extra compression we added to the plunger spring, so at the next opportunity to do more bare shaft tuning, I plan to swap out the spring for a stiffer one and back out some of the compression so I'll have some more flexibility with tuning should I make any other equipment changes.

I also just remembered that I switched from a 20-strand BCY string to an 18-strand 8125G string since the last time I tuned. If that had any effect, then my previous set-up probably wasn't quite as well tuned as I assumed.


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## yegon (Aug 15, 2017)

well for me just adding a 200g weight to my riser totally got my arrows out of tune, dont know much about those string materialls but that too seems like a big change


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