# Perfectly tuned, but my sight is maxed out, help please!



## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

So spent a few hours today getting my bow perfectly tuned, Right now I can shoot bare and fletched shafts through paper at 6 feet and 7 yards with great results. The problem is my Hogg-it sight is maxed out and my P.O.I. is a good inch to the right still at 20 yards. I have both spacer block on the Hogg-it on the same side, so when I say im maxed I mean it. What the heck should I do?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

odoylerules said:


> So spent a few hours today getting my bow perfectly tuned, Right now I can shoot bare and fletched shafts through paper at 6 feet and 7 yards with great results. The problem is my Hogg-it sight is maxed out and my P.O.I. is a good inch to the right still at 20 yards. I have both spacer block on the Hogg-it on the same side, so when I say im maxed I mean it. What the heck should I do?


Paper tuning is not the "end" of tuning, but rather the beginning of tuning.

So,
let's start over at the beginning.

We need to adjust the sight pins windage (horizontal adjustments).
We need to adjust the arrow rest centershot (horizontal adjustment).

Since the end goal is to get your arrows hitting where you want,
at short range
at medium range
at long range...

sooner or later,
gotta fire arrows at a bullseye,
and see if you like the results.

So,
you fired arrows at a bullseye,
and
you do not like the results.


So,
let's start over.


1) fold a piece of paper in half to get a nice straight edge.

2) set up a target bag or block, so that the center of the target bag or block is at YOUR COLLARBONE HEIGHT

3) pin the folded piece of paper to the center of your target, so the folded edge is VERTICAL.










Step back to 36 inches,
and fire a field point arrow at the folded edge of paper.

You want a perfect hole.

What is a perfect hole?

A perfect hole is a hole where 
HALF the arrow hole is not on the paper
and
HALF the arrow hole is on the paper.

MOVE the gang windage on your pin sight to the left or right,
until you get a perfect hole.

SEE the photograph.
I was aiming at the right hand edge of the duct tape.

Take your time.
Be picky.

Get your gang windage PERFECTLY adjusted,
when shooting at only 36-inches away from that vertical edge of paper.

*SHORT RANGE SHOOTING....adjust the pins left or right.*


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Now,
STEP 2.


Step back to any convenient LONGER distance.

Fire at a bullseye target face.










If the group of arrows is missing left of the bullseye,
MOVE THE ARROW REST TO THE RIGHT.


If the group of arrows is missing right of the bullseye,
MOVE THE ARROW REST TO THE LEFT.


When your arrow group is CENTERED around the bullseye...
then,

we go to STEP 3.


Step 3,
is return to the 36-inch shooting line.

Fire a single field point arrow
at the folded edge of paper,
and
KEEP MICRO-tweaking the gang pins windage on your pin sight,
until you get a perfect hole again.

Might need minor adjustments to the pin sight windage...maybe only 1/64th inch..
you get the idea....small, teeny, itsy bitsy adjustment, to get it PERFECT.










Now,
we goto STEP 4.


Go to any convenient longer distance,
20 feet,
11 yards,
14 yards,
22 yards.....

whatever safe distance where you can shoot a group of arrows
and not smash you own arrows.










TWEAK the arrow rest centershot (horizontal adjustments)
until your arrow groups are centered.



*Now,
before you start,
line up the arrow so that the arrow is parallel to the riser (arrow is pointed straight ahead).

You can use two arrows,
and just duct tape one arrow tight to the riser,
and then,
roughly adjust your arrow rest so that the arrow on the arrow rest
is parallel to the arrow DUCT TAPED TO YOUR RISER.


Now,
roughly adjust the sight pins windage directly in line with your arrow shaft centerline
or
a hair to the LEFT of the arrow shaft centerline, 
(the arrow on your arrow rest).*


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## ButchrCrekHuntr (Mar 26, 2005)

When your sight is bottomed out, that is an indication that your peep is too low and that your anchor is too high. Normally, your peep will be close to 5 1/2 to 5 3/4 inches above the top of the arrow nock. The left/right problem is most likely a form issue and try putting the string on the tip of your nose and in the middle. A string on the side of your nose can cause left/right impact changes and problems with your sight setting.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Tweak the sight pins windage ONLY when shooting at point blank range, say 36-inches.


*When shooting at a target...
in your example,
20 yards....

TWEAK THE ARROW REST,
(not the sight pins windage).*

Never should run out of adjustment for pins windage on any commercial pin or slider sight.
If you do, then you are probably shooting both eyes open, 
and are cross-dominant (shooting right hand bow, but the left eyeball is doing the aiming).


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## SARASR (Oct 30, 2009)

Good stuff right there!


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

odoylerules said:


> So spent a few hours today getting my bow perfectly tuned, Right now I can shoot bare and fletched shafts through paper at 6 feet and 7 yards with great results. The problem is my Hogg-it sight is maxed out and my P.O.I. is a good inch to the right still at 20 yards. I have both spacer block on the Hogg-it on the same side, so when I say im maxed I mean it. What the heck should I do?


One more thing.

Since you are left handed,
and
you are running out of pins windage adjustment.....


please post a head to toe photo,
with YOU at full draw,
bow hand high enough so that the arrow is DEAD HORIZONTAL.


I can think of one more reason,
why you might be running out of windage adjustment,
and you have the windage maxed out to the right,
and
still hitting 1-inch RIGHT at 20 yards.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

ButchrCrekHuntr said:


> When your sight is bottomed out, that is an indication that your peep is too low and that your anchor is too high. Normally, your peep will be close to 5 1/2 to 5 3/4 inches above the top of the arrow nock. The left/right problem is most likely a form issue and try putting the string on the tip of your nose and in the middle. A string on the side of your nose can cause left/right impact changes and problems with your sight setting.


I just measured, its right at 5 3/4in. Im 5-10, and have a 28.5in DL. I shoot with the string right at the tip of my nose


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

nuts&bolts said:


> One more thing.
> 
> Since you are left handed,
> and
> ...


I'll get the photo up as soon as the wife gets home in an hour..


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

I have to ask....are you canting the bow?


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

Noone else is home, so I tried some quick pics in the garage with the timer. There not too good...


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

If you're canting the top limb to the left, and it looks like you might be, that would explain it.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

Buster of Xs said:


> If you're canting the top limb to the left, and it looks like you might be, that would explain it.


Ive leveled my bow completly with the Hamskea tool. The bow is shooting great, Pefect bare shafts at 7 yards, hitting nearly the same hole at almost 20 yards(far as i can get in the yard).


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## KevinNY (Dec 28, 2010)

Elite Pulse?


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

KevinNY said:


> Elite Pulse?


Answer


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Had this same problem with Spot Hogg Hunter and two different Mathews bows. I never did figure it out though.


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## bat monger (Feb 18, 2011)

My guess is your getting lucky with the center shot holes at the distances you have shot at. Your center shot must be off. Or else there is a big problem with your cams. Something doesn't sound right.




BTW, I <3 when N&B posts........


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

BTW, I <3 when N&B posts........

What does this mean?


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## bat monger (Feb 18, 2011)

BTW, I <3 when N&B posts........[/QUOTE] What does this mean?[/QUOTE]

I enjoy the knowledge he lays down upon us mortals......


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

I enjoy the knowledge he lays down upon us mortals......[/QUOTE]

Me too!

Ive meticulously tuned this thing, Im getting perfect bare bullets from point blank out to almost 10 yards and everywhere in between. i dont think thats luck, it took a lot of work to get it there. That said I dont like how far outside it is. Right now its at about 14/15-16ths


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## jbehredt (Aug 9, 2010)

Adjust the cable slide rod so that your vanes just baaarley clear the cables. It will fix it. These elites are super picky that way.


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## jbehredt (Aug 9, 2010)

You may even have to shoot with your cock vane at 1 to pull it in far enough. It sounds stoopid but try it and let us know.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

jbehredt said:


> Adjust the cable slide rod so that your vanes just baaarley clear the cables. It will fix it. These elites are super picky that way.


Ive tried that too, I actually had to slightly twist the arrow so the blazers wouldnt hit. I powder tested them to make sure of no contact


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

With the cable rod adjustment, if there is torque in the bow when you shoot, it will be magnified in your sight the further out your sight bar is set. If you have a 30 inch stabilizer laying around put it on the bow and then draw the bow and see if it points out to one side or the other. Those things will expose torque in a bow.

If you move you sight in toward the riser do the pins come more in line or further out of alignment.


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## Timinator (Feb 10, 2012)

Posting so I can find this again


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## hoyt em all (Feb 20, 2005)

what does your center shot look like? to far inside? outside? about right?


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

The shelf/window is wide and that part of the riser is thick. That alone can mess with you with some sights.

If you're getting those bareshaft results through paper then you can rest assured that once you can move the sight enough to sight it in you'll pass a walkback test just how it is.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

you also didn't mention bow, weight, arrow size and weight. If the arrow is weak or to stiff then center shot may be off to compenstate for the arrow. Just thinking out loud. bullet holes do look good.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

hoyt em all said:


> what does your center shot look like? to far inside? outside? about right?


Its too outside, almost at an inch


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

odoylerules said:


> Its too outside, almost at an inch


An inch past center? If it took that to get good bareshaft/paper results something's wrong. Hand torque or cam lean would be my first guesses.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

jimb said:


> you also didn't mention bow, weight, arrow size and weight. If the arrow is weak or to stiff then center shot may be off to compenstate for the arrow. Just thinking out loud. bullet holes do look good.


Ive ran everything on OT2
2012 Answer
28.5 DL
81lbs
ACC .300 Prohunters cut to 27 1/4in
100 gr tips


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

Buster of Xs said:


> An inch past center? If it took that to get good bareshaft/paper results something's wrong. Hand torque or cam lean would be my first guesses.


Center of the arrow while on the rest, measured from the riser.
Elite reccomends 13/16ths...so im a bit out past that


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## AngelRa (Nov 15, 2010)

I had the same problem. Re tune the bow with a different arrow spine. Stiffer or softer.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

odoylerules said:


> Center of the arrow while on the rest, measured from the riser.
> Elite reccomends 13/16ths...so im a bit out past that


Elite recommends a centershot of 13/16ths to 7/8ths.

I NOTICED in your picture,
that BOTH eyes are open.

Can you make a simple eye patch
and cover up your RIGHT EYEBALL?

Let us know what happens to your 20 yard groups,
when wearing an eyepatch.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

nuts&bolts said:


> Elite recommends a centershot of 13/16ths to 7/8ths.


Leave it to you to be exact! lol

Im frustrated beyond believe. Im thinking of starting all over from scratch


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

odoylerules said:


> Leave it to you to be exact! lol
> 
> Im frustrated beyond believe. Im thinking of starting all over from scratch


Centershot is in the ballpark.
Your paper tears confirm this.

I am suspecting an eye dominance problem.
If you have glasses or a pair of light sunglasses...just cover up the right hand lens with some scotch tape or masking tape,
and see what happens to your 20 yard point of impact.


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## hoyt em all (Feb 20, 2005)

when you line your string and arrow up where is your pin?


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## Elgavilan (Feb 7, 2010)

Take the screws out that hold the head of the sight on, move the head to the other side of the mounting bracket and put the screws back in from the other side. Simple fix. 

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## bat monger (Feb 18, 2011)

nuts&bolts said:


> Centershot is in the ballpark.
> Your paper tears confirm this.
> 
> I am suspecting an eye dominance problem.
> ...


I should have thought of this. My mother had this problem once at a 3d shoot. Couldn't figure out why she started shooting 3' to the right out past 40 yards. Took half a dozen guys looking at the bow and talking among ourselves to figure out an eye dominance problem. She now shoots with a patch that hangs from her hat that keeps her left eye from dominating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

I haven't read your whole thread, and may be off, but I've noticed you're shooting a lefty and also using the Hogg-It? I had a Hogg-It on my Invasion and had to convert it to a Hunter model because if you notice the very end of your sight arm that attaches to the head is not in the center of the arm, but rather offset. No matter which way I configgured my sight head and the sight head block it was too far one way or the other. I also have a couple bows with the Hunter model by Spot Hogg and noticed the mounting block for the hogg-It pulls the sight arm away from the bow riser almost 3/8", but the Hunter model has the sight arm flush up against the riser, which is where I needed it. I ended up changing the Hogg-It to a Hunter to fix the problem. The only other solution for my situation (and possibly yours) was to install their drop down bracket between the mounting block and the riser on the Hogg-It and it would have allowed me to configure it so my final adjustment was more to the center of the sight. If I have confused you I apologize!


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

va limbhanger said:


> I haven't read your whole thread, and may be off, but I've noticed you're shooting a lefty and also using the Hogg-It? I had a Hogg-It on my Invasion and had to convert it to a Hunter model because if you notice the very end of your sight arm that attaches to the head is not in the center of the arm, but rather offset. No matter which way I configgured my sight head and the sight head block it was too far one way or the other. I also have a couple bows with the Hunter model by Spot Hogg and noticed the mounting block for the hogg-It pulls the sight arm away from the bow riser almost 3/8", but the Hunter model has the sight arm flush up against the riser, which is where I needed it. I ended up changing the Hogg-It to a Hunter to fix the problem. The only other solution for my situation (and possibly yours) was to install their drop down bracket between the mounting block and the riser on the Hogg-It and it would have allowed me to configure it so my final adjustment was more to the center of the sight. If I have confused you I apologize!


Can you get another spacer block (a total of two, plus the one thats permenatly connected) to fit on the Hogg-it?


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## J-Daddy (Aug 7, 2003)

If your talking windage & not elevation is maxed out then there is a solution...I haven't owned a Hogg It for a long time so I'm trying to do this from memory...But there's a block the sight head bolts too that mounts to the dovetail section...You take the sight off and you can move that block over and gain a TON of windage adjustment. I had to do that to a couple of Hogg's years ago when I shot them.


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## MonsterManiac7 (Apr 7, 2011)

Can you tell me where your pins are in relation to the shaft at rest? Are the pins about 1/8th of an inch right of the arrow? If the pins don't seem unreasonably off from the arrow(more that 1/4" off) then I would figure out a way to shim the sight.


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

Buster of Xs said:


> An inch past center? If it took that to get good bareshaft/paper results something's wrong. Hand torque or cam lean would be my first guesses.


It is not uncommon with Elites. Right handed bows have commonly tuned best when the rest was shoved ALL the way left on the shelf. It would just be opposite with the lefty..

If Elite had the thicker spacer on the left side of the cam, instead of the right side (right handed bow) it would indeed help to swap the spacers. The thicker spacer should be on the right side of the cam on a lefty bow.... making the cam closer to the cable guard. 

It wouldn't surprise me if Spot Hogg made a block to move your sight over. I know that Black Gold has..


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## advancearchery (Jan 29, 2008)

It is possible that the bow tunes well at an extreme inside center, but will also tune well more toward the center set the bottom cam on your foot and see where an arrow nocked sits in relation to the limb bolts. If it is way to the right I would go back to center and start tuning over. I had a mathews that tuned with a perfect hole way in side center almost touching the riser and also just slightly inside canter. Also make sure your arrows are the correct spine, try other spines and see if you get better results. You may have gotten a bow that is going to give you fits tuning but once you get it with trial and error you will have total confidence.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

More pics


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

If your arrows are grouping tight...

but, just missing off to the right,
then your bow is tuned well,
and we just need to purchase another Spot Hogg Spacer Bar
and
extra long socket cap screws.


The arrow rest position
determines if the arrows are flying straight and group tight at short and medium and long range distances.


The sight pins only tell a shooter where to point.

So,
if you get to the practice range,
and get TIGHT GROUPS at 20 yards and 60 yards....

then, the cam timing and arrow rest position are just fine.

IF the sight has not enough windage,
then,
the TIGHT arrow groups will miss to the right of the target
but the arrows will still be tight GROUPS.


So,
if you get TIGHT 20 yard groups
and you get TIGHT 60 yard groups...

just order an extra bar from Spot Hogg or Lancaster Archery,
and goto the hardware store
and buy extra long screws.


It could just be a design thing with the Elite bows,
with a sight window that is cut a little too much on the wide side.


Draw length looks fine.
Alignment for your upper body looks fine.

I see that you have one eye closed, so not eye dominance.

I agree that the arrow spine is fine.


Bow hand grip looks good.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

My experience with the hamskea was that it lied to me. You have a spot hogg, you don't need it. Level the second axis using a door jamb or carpenters level and the 3rd axis using a plumb bob. Spot Hogg has excellent directions on their website.
My experience with elites is that this problem requires correcting cam spacing or swapping the limbs top to bottom, Ive fixed this using both.
Start with releveling the sight.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Just did a photo analysis.










Something is not right.


1) measured the angle of the sight bar

versus

2) measured the angle of the front stabilizer...

difference is ONLY 1 DEGREE of rotation.


ARROW is rotated 4 degrees away from where the sight bar is pointed.

SEEMS like a lot.

If you can,
try some 60 yard groups,
and if the groups are tight....

and only missing right,
try another stacked Spot Hogg spacer bar.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

Yeah, the overhead view is showing the bow torquing several degrees at full draw. Check cam lean as that's the primary cause of this (or I should say the cause of the cam lean is also causing this torque).


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

If you're still hitting to the right about 1" at 20 yards, AND are happy with the way the bow shoots you could shim the head out (either with some shim stock/feeler gauges) between the head and block, OR move the sight in (towards you) about 4 holes.


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

Elgavilan said:


> Take the screws out that hold the head of the sight on, move the head to the other side of the mounting bracket and put the screws back in from the other side. Simple fix.
> 
> Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


This is your answer.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

coiloil37 said:


> This is your answer.


No it's not.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Have you set the 3rd axis on the sight?


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

nuts&bolts said:


> Just did a photo analysis.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is a good point but isn't it possible he does have it tuned but the sight housing is bolted on the wrong side and it's limiting adjustment? If the bow tunes properly isn't that all that matters? Or maybe I should've read this more thoroughly, I just saw the picture of the housing and your all right.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

coiloil37 said:


> This is a good point but isn't it possible he does have it tuned but the sight housing is bolted on the wrong side and it's limiting adjustment? If the bow tunes properly isn't that all that matters? Or maybe I should've read this more thoroughly.


His pic of the sight shows it maxed out while bolted on the correct side. His centershot is 
WAY out because his axis adjustments are incorrect, cam spacing is wrong, or weak limb twist.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

coiloil37 said:


> This is a good point but isn't it possible he does have it tuned but the sight housing is bolted on the wrong side and it's limiting adjustment? If the bow tunes properly isn't that all that matters? Or maybe I should've read this more thoroughly.



1) left handed shooter, so the Spot Hogg pin sight is installed correctly

2) 81 lbs of draw weight, so the riser is probably twisting significantly...so the arrow tuning for centershot at 15/16ths from the riser, is probably correct
....(Elite Archery website says the centershot should be 13/16th to 14/16ths)

3) suggested that he go to the practice range and fire some 60 yard groups. If the arrow group is still tight,
.....then, the fix is to get an extra piece of bar stock from Spot Hogg and double stack the spacers and use extra long screws, so the pin guard can be shimmed further to the right.


So,
yes,
you are correct.

If the arrow groups are tight at 20 yards, and 60 yards...
but, just missing to the right of the spot..

just need to fix the windage adjustment.


I don't know that many folks that shoot 81 lbs of draw weight.


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## Edsel (Oct 1, 2011)

nuts&bolts said:


> Just did a photo analysis.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It just occurred to me - could this actually be a lens parallax issue?

I used to have this problem (still have it), and it's really more noticeable whenever I used these types of focusing screens...


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

That hurts my brain.


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## Edsel (Oct 1, 2011)

skynight said:


> That hurts my brain.


Try jiggling the image really quickly with your up and down, or left and right keys (it'll work either way)...

That'll not only hurt, but give you _grand mal_ seizures as well.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

Guys, just an update. I added the extra block unto the sight, that didnt really fix the problem at all. I started the Frech tuning process. I was able to bring the sight over for the correct adjustment, and get the up close shot with the 70yrd pin, to hit perfect on the line (as you can see in the pic) but before i went out to verify this at 70 yards, I took several shots at 10 yards, and am impacting at least two inches to the left each time. Im glad i checked at 10yrds, becasue at 70 i would have missed the target. Im confinced at 1" , im way too far out of center shot. Its so weird that the bow shoots absolutly perfect bare shaft bullet holes at every distance from point blank, out past 10 yards. Ive had several people contact me by PM or email and suggest that the bow has some significant flaw, and may need new limbs or have them shimmed. My tuning issues with this bow are not unique. Ive had several people, great coaches even, look at my form and shot execution online and in person and have agreed its not some wierd form flaw. I am losing confidence in this bow fast. I will set everything back to spec this weekend, and start from scratch. I'll update soon after. Thanks again for all your help
Steve


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

If you have a draw board check the cam lean at full draw. If there's a significant amount at full draw you found the culprit.


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

This one's cam spacing. The best way to clear this up is to respace those cams so both of them are as close to the cable guard side as possible. All setups are different and it is oftentimes advantageous on 2 track binaries to alter the stock cam spacing configuration provided there's room. What you really need to do in this instance is to space the cams as far to the left as you can which will bring the tune farther to the left (rest and sights) and solve the issue. PM me if you need assistance....just give me a few days to answer....swamped.


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## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

Both of what was said by baldyhunter and Buster is correct. 

I would fist go with what baldy said. 

Good Luck and let us know. 

Skeet.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

Skeeter 58 said:


> I would fist go with what baldy said.


I would, too. His post is more complete. :lol:


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## Out East (Oct 27, 2009)

If I had all this trouble sighting in my bow I would send it back and get a different one.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Out East said:


> If I had all this trouble sighting in my bow I would send it back and get a different one.


To swap out the "thick" spacer to the other side of the cam,
requires letting the bow down completely 
and getting the e-clips off the axle.

Not hard to do, but helps to have an extra set of e-clips,
in case the "installed" e-clip goes flying in the living room or garage, 
whereever you are working.

So,
if doing a complete teardown is not something a fella wants to try,
then,
the pro shop can easily handle this fix.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

nuts&bolts said:


> To swap out the "thick" spacer to the other side of the cam,
> requires letting the bow down completely
> and getting the e-clips off the axle.
> 
> ...


Where can I get these spacers? is there a kit from Elite?


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## jeeperforlife (Jun 20, 2007)

You should have a thick spacer on one side and a thinner one on the other side of each cam right now. I believe they are telling you just to take the bow down and simply swap the positions of the two spacers, effectively shifting your centershot.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

jeeperforlife said:


> You should have a thick spacer on one side and a thinner one on the other side of each cam right now. I believe they are telling you just to take the bow down and simply swap the positions of the two spacers, effectively shifting your centershot.


Yup. It not only shifts the centershot that amount, but by shifting the cams toward the cable guard you reduce the amount of cam lean which moves centershot even a tad more.


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## lovetohunt93 (Aug 3, 2010)

Just gonna mark this thread, interested to see what the issue is here. Good Luck!


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Out East said:


> If I had all this trouble sighting in my bow I would send it back and get a different one.


And do you think they would replace this bow with another one.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

I think its entirely possible all of you guys are missing the point he is shooting 81lbs and has moved his rest way out to the right because he is compensating for a WEAK ARROW!

You can get a weak arrow to tune with a bullet hole, and french tune but the problem is your rest will always be so far away from your riser you can run out of windage adjustments.


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## odoylerules (May 12, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> I think its entirely possible all of you guys are missing the point he is shooting 81lbs and has moved his rest way out to the right because he is compensating for a WEAK ARROW!
> 
> You can get a weak arrow to tune with a bullet hole, and french tune but the problem is your rest will always be so far away from your riser you can run out of windage adjustments.


Im shooting .300 ACC Pro Hunters cut to 27" with 100grs up front. OT2 says if anything im still a tad on the stiff side, but still almost perfect. Did you take into account im a lefty with your assesment?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

odoylerules said:


> Im shooting .300 ACC Pro Hunters cut to 27" with 100grs up front. OT2 says if anything im still a tad on the stiff side, but still almost perfect. Did you take into account im a lefty with your assesment?


Arrows are fine.

Like Buster of Xs says,
we believe the spacers on the axle need to be swapped, 
position-wise.

Need to adjust the cam position on the axle,
to move the axle MORE to the left.

If the existing spacers are FAT spacer on the left side of the cam
and SKINNY spacer on the right side of the cam....

then,
dis-assemble the bow completely,
pop off the e-clips (have spare e-clips in the correct size available),
and then,
make sure that the SKINNY spacer is on the left side
and the FAT spacer is on the right side,
to shift the cam position as far left as possible.

Of course,
gotta do this to both cams.


Worst case,
may need to use a digital caliper
and measure the total thickness for both spacers
and goto custom plastic shims / washers
to get the cam positioned as far left as possible.

Talk to your Elite dealer,
and they may already have a selection of custom shims/washers available for your application.


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## brd556 (Aug 22, 2011)

Tag for sighting info.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

Just read another post about a guy with the same problem your having. Guess what? He shimmed his top cam closer to the riser. Well if this isn't a bunch of crap. It looks like when i get home the bow that is shooting so good is going to get ripped apart again. I've also been told to get me some hoyt bushings and toss the mathews bushings away. They say the hoyt bushings are thinner and I can take more slop out of the top cam with them.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Use #10 plastic washers from home depot.


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## ToddM (May 30, 2003)

Could this be a riser/limb pocket issue? maybe it's the camera angle/trick of the overhead shots, but it really looks like the sight bar is at a very different angle compared to the centerline of the limb pockets.

Even on the overhead picture of the sight/stab with the bow at rest, if you draw a line through the limb bolt and stabilizer tip (and it appears it's inline/centered with the lower limb pocket), and compare that to the sight bar angle it looks way off. It also looks like the 3rd axis is off quite a bit compared to the sight bar.

Maybe a picture from behind with the bow at full draw to see how bad the cam lean is would help too.


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

Before you start tearing the bow apart, I would set your CS to 13/16", walk back tune, and see where you are at. If you still are out of adjustment, do you have another sight you could try? I had this problem with two different Spot Hogg sights (Hunter and Hogg-it) and two different bows (Mathews and Elite) and when I put another sight on, I had enough adjustment and some to spare. From looking at the pics, you don't appear to have any cam lean / limb twist and if you swap spacers around you may end up with some.


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## monsterbuckrick (Aug 14, 2009)

Perry24 said:


> Before you start tearing the bow apart, I would set your CS to 13/16", walk back tune, and see where you are at. If you still are out of adjustment, do you have another sight you could try? I had this problem with two different Spot Hogg sights (Hunter and Hogg-it) and two different bows (Mathews and Elite) and when I put another sight on, I had enough adjustment and some to spare. From looking at the pics, you don't appear to have any cam lean / limb twist and if you swap spacers around you may end up with some.


Thats the problem there. Had the same issue with that same sight. Got a V-TR sight and presto, no more problem.


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## tntone (Aug 13, 2006)

im not bashing but i dont shoot elite, or other brands with that style cams for the tuning issue. look down the arrow shaft from behind the bow and see how the sight lines up with the arrow, when i shot a ------ bow it had alot of issues with the cables pulling on the cams too much, when i lined up the arrow with the string the sight would be sitting WAY outside the center shot....


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## AngelRa (Nov 15, 2010)

I think is the grip (bow hand placement). Put the rest back in the specified starting position and tune again but this time do not change anything in the bow, tune your bow hand shape and placement.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Your bow is much like my PSE Supra in being sensitive to torque from the cable side load on the cable guard. 

My solution was to first get my idler set straight while at rest. Fortunately, it was also straight at full draw as is my cam. Then set my rest using N&B's modified french tuning method, then fine tuned by group tuning at 40 yards. Then I started working on arrow flight from there. Read the bare shaft tuning thread for a lot of good information from N&B on these techniques.

One thing that seems to be working is tuning with the cable guard. You have an offset rod like I do. Most will tell you that the closer you can get the cables to the arrow, the better. But I'm finding that moving it away will bring my bare shafts closer to the fletched arrows. It's totally counter intuitive, but it's working. 

I don't understand how moving the cables away from the arrow improves arrow flight. I think it has to do with limbs not being precisely the same deflection. Or maybe I need to shim the limb pockets a little. Your results will likely be different, but it's easier to try this than swap the cam spacers. You can always do that once you rule this out.

One interesting thing I noticed is that when I move the cable guard away from the arrow, the arrow's point of impact is higher. About 1/8" equals about 2" at 20 yards. If you do this, I'd be curious if you see the same thing. 

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## eorlando (Jul 21, 2009)

So I can find this later...


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## Ancient Archer (Sep 25, 2008)

Great post! Learned a lot on this one. Posting it for future reference.


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## CaSpawn (Jan 5, 2012)

jez louise!! 

seems like archery should be much simpler than what I've just read! Is it just because the compounds have so many parts, therefore more things needing fine tuning??

Thinking maybe a traditional, Robin Hood style bow might be the way to go....less moving parts, comes down to mostly the archer learning how to shoot!


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## AngelRa (Nov 15, 2010)

CaSpawn said:


> jez louise!!
> 
> seems like archery should be much simpler than what I've just read! Is it just because the compounds have so many parts, therefore more things needing fine tuning??
> 
> Thinking maybe a traditional, Robin Hood style bow might be the way to go....less moving parts, comes down to mostly the archer learning how to shoot!


Not really... If you want the best out of it, you still have to tune it! Nock point, shelf rest material thickness, string length, arrow FOC (length and point weight), arrow spine, grip, ...


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## NoFences4Me (Jan 22, 2009)

Great information here. Marking so I can read later.


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

The OP sold the bow, so we won't know what the issue was unless the new owner has the same issue.


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## talon1961 (Mar 13, 2008)

Same issue I had with my GT500. "Tater" finally got a shim kit from Elite and the centershot tuned right at 13/16". Now I have it fine tuned for my own shooting style, and it shoots perfectly.


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## AngelRa (Nov 15, 2010)

Perry24 said:


> The OP sold the bow, so we won't know what the issue was unless the new owner has the same issue.


That is ok, the guy above got the same issue...


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## Tater1985 (Apr 28, 2008)

baldyhunter said:


> This one's cam spacing. The best way to clear this up is to respace those cams so both of them are as close to the cable guard side as possible. All setups are different and it is oftentimes advantageous on 2 track binaries to alter the stock cam spacing configuration provided there's room. What you really need to do in this instance is to space the cams as far to the left as you can which will bring the tune farther to the left (rest and sights) and solve the issue. PM me if you need assistance....just give me a few days to answer....swamped.


This is where i would look.



talon1961 said:


> Same issue I had with my GT500. "Tater" finally got a shim kit from Elite and the centershot tuned right at 13/16". Now I have it fine tuned for my own shooting style, and it shoots perfectly.


And there you have it. Just had another GT with the same issue the week before last as well, lefty.



Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## Corey F. Dyok (Dec 2, 2011)

jbehredt said:


> You may even have to shoot with your cock vane at 1 to pull it in far enough. It sounds stoopid but try it and let us know.


Get your bow shop to time cams perfectly, hitting draw stops exactly.
Then adjust your nocks to shoot cock vane at 9:00 o'clock. This puts your other 2 vanes at approx. 2 and 5. Adjust your cables in so they barely clear as mentioned above. Use a foot powder spray and shoot untill you get no contact. Also check for contact on your rest from the 5 o'clock vane. Center shot your arrow perfectly and then proceed to do your first bullet hole testing through paper. Ideally this would be done with different spine arrows to find the best bullet hole at perfect center shot without adjusting the rest. An arrow that is perfectly center shot and produces a perfect bullet hole is flying straight out of the bow. The problem is people center shot their bow, then paper tune using the rest. It is much better to use different spine arrows rather than adjusting the rest to paper tune. You can't accurately walk-back tune as nuts-bolts explained above if your bullet hole is produced with rest adjustment. All the walk back tuning and close pin tuning is doing is finding the best compromise between the pins and rest adjustment. It does not address the mismatch of arrow spine.

Members should get together and do a group buy of many different arrows. Pick the premium arrows from reputable makers and each person gets 1 out of a dozen. Then you can try many different arrow spine's in your bow with the rest perfectly center shot. This gives you 12 chances to find a spine that will produce a bullet hole with your rest at center shot using a straight premium arrow. Best $120-$150 ever spent.


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## BringEmNorth (Apr 7, 2012)

Posting to find again.


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

When taking instructions on AT pick ONE of the Instructers & STAY with that ONE all the way through..


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