# How do you fire your thumb trigger release?



## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Here's some background. I started shooting at age 56 and am now 61. I lost a nearly a year in the middle of that to back surgery. So, I've shot a little over 4 years total, all almost exclusively with a hinge/hook. I am a dedicated student of the game and have solid understanding of my chosen method with a hinge/hook. I've had good local 3d success and finished 11th in my class for ASA shooter of the year. I'm not great but not bad for an old busted up guy. 
Now, for the past four months I've experienced loss of feeling in the fourth and fifth fingers of both hands. This doesn't cause any problems on my bow side, but I've had increasing difficulty with the fine motion of those fingers in firing my hinges/hooks. I could go to a two-finger but find fatigue in my draw hand to be a problem during a long day of shooting.
So, with that as background, I've been shooting a thumb trigger release for 3 weeks. I realize that isn't a long sample, but here's what I've experienced. When using a rotational method to fire (pushing the trigger into the base of my thumb), I'm experiencing the same thing that I'm experiencing with my hinge (loss of sensation resulting in dumping the release). For the past week, I've settled on the following: getting hard into the wall, letting the pin settle until I like what I'm seeing, then increasing pressure with my thumb until the release fires. Right now, I'm getting a nice surprise release and strong follow through and reasonable groups with no flyers. While some great shooters have made some money shooting this way, my fear is that a punch is just waiting for the right pressure situation.
I'm wide open to your thoughts, ideas and recommendations. I'm particularly interested in how you fire your thumb release (and why, if you don't mind). I don't know if the nerve issue will clear up, so a thumb trigger may be my future. My attitude about this is great because it keeps me shooting and competing.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

First, loss of feeling in, I take it, the ring and pinky fingers. Loss of feeling? Do they feel cold? Not saying it is, but could be Cubical issues. Same thing as Carpal tunnel syndrome, but in the elbow. I'd have this checked. Longer it goes the colder your fingers will feel. Left handed, I had both Carpal and Cubical surgery at the same time. Both sort of split the hand. If hammering I'd lose the hammer, that much of loss of feeling. 

I've found there are various ways to use a thumb release. For me, the best is to one heavy and as heavy as I can get. I have the TRU Ball ST360 and TRU Ball Extreme. Neither are made today, but forerunners of the newer Incredible and Absolute 360. These came with two springs, normal and heavy. I have the heavy spring in and set as heavy as I can get them and wish I could set them heavier. Though set heavy they go off like magic.
Heavy also works with the Stanislawski Shootoff, which doesn't need a spring change. I had one. It was great, all kinds of thumb barrel adjustment, just too small for my hand. I'd own a large if I got around to it. I couldn't get my index finger out of the hook type groove to close the jaw. The now owner has set it even heavier.
I like the barrel on the bone next to the hand knuckle. See pic. 

Set heavy you can get a good feel of the thumb barrel and the release not go off. This is not to say have the thumb on the barrel and draw. Keep your off the barrel until you're on target. 
Firing;
1) You can thumb it.
2) You can pull with the middle and ring finger (rotational).
3) You can draw slowly. This makes the hand clinch. 
4) You can use back tension. It's back tension, a different kind of back tension and some think almost like #3, but it's not. 
5) You can ease off the index finger. I've tried this and it gets scary. If I used it more then I could probably get use to it.

I use #4. Back to shooting from major rotor cuff surgery, but I used therabands for drawing, just like shooting, but without a bow. Make your own or buy a trainer and practice to find what works for you. I couldn't shoot, but went to some 3Ds and the guys had a blast trying all kinds of releases with my therabands. They'd get their release to fire and couldn't catch the theraband unless they had a dead hold on it. Makes a heck of noise 

Pics not in order. Bottom;I have the ST360 labeled "medium," but TRU Ball didn't make different sizes. Releases, top center is the Stan Shootoff. Note how the index finger part hooks around compared to the TRU Balls. As you can see the ST360 just has a hook, no jaw to close. The therabands together are for drawing heavy, not regular holding weight. The yellow will give about 12 to 15 pounds. Adjust the therabands by tying short or tying knots to give weight at your normal anchor.


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Sonny, Thanks for the pics and detailed response. Medically, my problem originates in the cervical spine. Not bad enough for surgery, yet. Can you say a bit more about your "back tension" method? For me, I have a strong pre-load or transition into the back prior to the final steps of my process. I don't pull much harder through firing; just a bit of expansion.
Also, I use a static line a lot for practice. I hadn't thought of using therabands. I've got a bunch in the closet.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, I pull to the wall, but just to the wall. I get on target and feel the wall a bit more, but I'm relaxed, hand and all and yet have a good feel of the thumb barrel . At this point it's just focusing on the target and engaging a tad bit more back tension - it's automatic. It is back tension, but it's so easy to fire my thumb release. At first you may not feel you're using back tension, but you are. It just so dang easy. I have to go slow, not a rapid tensing of the back muscles. Heavy like I have my thumb releases set they go off like magic, that easy. You can test. Use #3 for a bit (draw) and then use #4 (back tension). And using back tension there is no discernible effect shooting up or down hill like with a hinge. 

My Ben Pearson MarXman has duel limb stops, making for a extremely hard wall. Pulling too hard and I'll get the shakes. I get the shakes I should let down...one of my faults. With cable stop bows, like my former Hoyt ProElite, there was perhaps a different feel, but not that it effected accuracy. And then best draw length is a nice thing.... 

Again, I have my thumb releases set as heavy as I can get them and wish I could set them heavier. Trigger travel is personal I believe. I want enough that the release doesn't fire by accident if I "feel" a bit harder than usual.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

I will address your nerve issues. I agree with the use of therabands like Sonny uses or if you have one, I have used a Morin trainer that produces about 15# holding weight in the same manner during my recovery from bilateral shoulder reconstructions. One thing I have experienced as a result of the surgeries is a near complete loss of proprioception (the sense or perception, usually at a subconscious level, of the movements and position of the body and especially its limbs, independent of vision). As you can imagine, as a hinge shooter, not being able to tell where my shoulders and elbows were in space while at full draw made for some very difficult and frustrating times. 

So, I got together with my surgeon and my physiatrist and we came up with a plan to retrain other upper body sections to signal my brain where and what my arms were doing by creating new neural pathways based on how the pressure changed over my back and/or chest during my draw cycle and release. This is being accomplished by my wearing a tight compression shirt (one that exerts about 10-15# of pressure to my upper body) while shooting. After doing this for the past 8 months, I am able to shoot my hinge with improved efficiency and am becoming more stable while going through the aiming process. I still have a ways to go to be competitive again, but this has provided the means of getting there.

Perhaps you can do something similar and try using a compression glove with finger cut outs on your release hand so that you relearn how much pressure your ring and pinky are applying through your hinge or thumb trigger execution by noticing the differing pressures being applied to your hand and wrist through the glove. It's just another way of establishing muscle memory, but more on the subconscious level.


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks Gail, I'll be trying everything. I'll talk options over with my medical folks. Reality for now is that this is my new normal. And, I love to shoot and particularly love to shoot well. So, all the experience on this site may help me get where I want to be without as much trial and error as usual.


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## G-unit (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm not sure if it'll help as you've lost some sensation, I fire mine with my ring finger. I curl around the trigger with my thumb, then start working the ring finger. I'm a puncher so this has helped me tremendously. If you have lost feeling but still have total control, may be the best thing ever as it would surprise you every time.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

I don't believe this; I had a full reply typed out, something blinked on the screen and everything was wiped clean... 

Anyway, it would be very good to speak with your medical people about what's going on and what you still wish to do with your hand until you decide to go through with the surgery. Take along your relesaes and a string bow so that they will be better able to visualize exactly how you need your hand to function. 

I am sure that with some ingenuity and fair amount of dedicated practice you will be able to teach yourself to shoot well again despite the numbness.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Go to 4:40 in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1hpKacIRI

That's how I do it.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

I fire very much the same as the video above describes, letting the release of tension in the hand push the thumb barrel into the clenched thumb. Pretty much the same way as firing a hinge with the exception of the thumb is off the peg when shooting a hinge.


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

I just watched the video and it reinforced how I was shooting this morning. I'll try setting my thumb prior to relaxing my hand. I was doing the opposite this morning. But, execution was the same as in the video.
While tinkering in the garage this evening, I placed my Whalen's Hooker on a wrist strap. I'd never shot it that way before. At full draw, I was able to remove all the holding weight from my fingers. After making a strong transition (pre-load), still with little weight on my fingers, I gently rotated the release. I didn't experience any of the resistance that I feel with a finger trigger. The release smoothly rotated until it let go. It felt perfect. I shot about 20 arrows that way. No punches and no sensation that I needed to break through the resistance of a trigger. While I continue to work with the thumb trigger, I'll also see if this Hooker set up holds up across time. I won't need to make a final decision on equipment and method until mid-January. After that I won't make any changes for the tournament year. I've got plenty of work to do, but I have options. And the good news is that I'll be able to shoot reasonably competitively.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I fire very similar to the video also. Little bit different but not enough to tell.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

pwyrick said:


> While I continue to work with the thumb trigger, I'll also see if this Hooker set up holds up across time. I won't need to make a final decision on equipment and method until mid-January. After that I won't make any changes for the tournament year. I've got plenty of work to do, but I have options. And the good news is that I'll be able to shoot reasonably competitively.


Excellent news; so glad to hear you came up with some options that will help!! When dealing with injuries and/or aging bodies, you often have to think outside of the box to find workable alternatives. All the best!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Huntinsker said:


> Go to 4:40 in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1hpKacIRI
> 
> That's how I do it.





Lazarus said:


> I fire very much the same as the video above describes, letting the release of tension in the hand push the thumb barrel into the clenched thumb. Pretty much the same way as firing a hinge with the exception of the thumb is off the peg when shooting a hinge.


Down for 4 or 5 days and $50 to fix this junk computer of mine to play YouTube videos and it's stopped playing YouTube videos with the above. 

Nevertheless, I tried relaxing my release hand and got some wild results that I didn't want. Can't see the video so can someone explain in detail?

I don't have a death grip on my ST360 like I do with a hinge. I draw, my hand is straight with my forearm and my index and middle finger fit perfectly to my jaw line. This is done before I apply my thumb to the barrel. It's automatic. If off I feel it instantly.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> Nevertheless, I tried relaxing my release hand and got some wild results that I didn't want. Can't see the video so can someone explain in detail?


The video does NOT say to let the release fly Sonny! :teeth: Am I right? 

In all honesty I'll try to put it into (my) words as best as possible, not the guy in the video's. 

I draw with a pretty relaxed hand, most of my "tension" is focused on my longest finger (using a 3 finger Stan Shootoff, this is key, it's harder with most other button releases because the long finger recess on the ShootOff is actually built up.) At full draw I hook my thumb around the barrel and try to elongate my forearm and relaxed hand using my long finger (because it's in the middle on a 3 finger) as a fulcrum. I do bring my pinky back into a loose ball (which is the "trigger" kind of like a "click" on a hinge that says-"we're going hot.") If all works as it should the release rotates into the thumb and fires automatically just a couple of seconds after the pinky comes back. 

That's not how Danny explained it in the video, but I think the concept is pretty much the same.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

SonnyThomas said:


> Down for 4 or 5 days and $50 to fix this junk computer of mine to play YouTube videos and it's stopped playing YouTube videos with the above.
> 
> Nevertheless, I tried relaxing my release hand and got some wild results that I didn't want. Can't see the video so can someone explain in detail?
> 
> I don't have a death grip on my ST360 like I do with a hinge. I draw, my hand is straight with my forearm and my index and middle finger fit perfectly to my jaw line. This is done before I apply my thumb to the barrel. It's automatic. If off I feel it instantly.


Basically, Dan McCarthy shows how he sets off his trigger release. He sets his fingers in the release how he wants them and then increases tension in his hand, almost like making a tighter fist around the release. At full draw he then hooks his thumb around the barrel of the release and then relaxes his hand which loads the trigger against his thumb. You'll need practice to set the release either hot or cold enough to put a comfortable amount of pressure on the trigger without it going off. You'll also need to get the position of the trigger just right. Once his fist is relaxed and the thumb trigger is loaded onto his thumb, he increases tension with his back muscles with a straight pull and the added tension against the trigger fires the release. He doesn't rotate anything and he doesn't punch. He loads it against his thumb and then pulls straight back until the release goes off. If you can do it consistently, it works very well.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Lazarus said:


> The video does NOT say to let the release fly Sonny! :teeth: Am I right?
> 
> Well, I don't know. I couldn't see the video. Tech added Firefox just a couple hours ago so maybe I can watch, not that I haven't had a thumb go skidding down range on a concrete floor :embara:
> 
> ...





Huntinsker said:


> Basically, Dan McCarthy shows how he sets off his trigger release. He sets his fingers in the release how he wants them and then increases tension in his hand, almost like making a tighter fist around the release. At full draw he then hooks his thumb around the barrel of the release and then relaxes his hand which loads the trigger against his thumb. You'll need practice to set the release either hot or cold enough to put a comfortable amount of pressure on the trigger without it going off. You'll also need to get the position of the trigger just right. Once his fist is relaxed and the thumb trigger is loaded onto his thumb, he increases tension with his back muscles with a straight pull and the added tension against the trigger fires the release. He doesn't rotate anything and he doesn't punch. He loads it against his thumb and then pulls straight back until the release goes off. If you can do it consistently, it works very well.


Then very comparable to my #3 "You can draw slowly. This makes the hand clinch." Now, like I replied, my ST360 thumb releases are set heavy with the heavy spring and I can get on the barrels pretty good. When drawing that little extra it's just human nature or bio-mechanics that makes the hand clinch and make the release fire.


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