# Is there a code of ethics in 3D?



## mudd32 (Jan 4, 2014)

So me and my buddy are shooting my clubs 3d course last night...since league starts in 3 weeks.
We run across someone shooting yardages with a range finder and writing them down in a note pad....and he's not even carrying a bow. 
Assuming he is shooting the league of course.

Is it just me or is that just wrong and should something be said?


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## kilerhamilton (Jul 19, 2010)

sounds wrong to me. Unless he is practicing going back to shoot the course, judges them then checks his notes and sees how close he was guessing. If the course is set up the same it was for practice then the club etc is lazy.


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## hotfoot360 (Jul 30, 2008)

I used to do it all the time. I would judge a target write down how far I thought it was then range the target and see how far it really was. After doing it a few times I learned that I over judged black targets by 4 to 5 yards consistantly. It helped my scores a lot. But the rage I did it on was always set different for every shoot.


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

we have guys that do that to practice yardage i don't see anything wrong with it unless they come back the next day and shoot the same course. 
try it sometime its good practice.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

your shooting it and then you are going to shoot it for score, not much difference, do they move the stakes for the leagues or are you shooting the same stakes for practice as the league will shoot?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Ethics in 3D? maybe for some 

in golf, a golfer will count a stroke if he moves the ball accidentally.
in golf, a golfer will count a stroke if he lays the club head on the sand when taking a shot
in golf, a golfer will count a stroke

in 3D- an archer will argue/fight tooth and nail about an arrow that might possibly appear to be touching a line...


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## xxxJakkxxx (Apr 17, 2014)

I don't shoot 3D but it seems like trying to get that kind of advantage would break the spirit of a fair competition but not the rules. Again, I don't shoot 3D so I don't know. 



Fury90flier said:


> Ethics in 3D? maybe for some
> 
> in golf, a golfer will count a stroke if he moves the ball accidentally.
> in golf, a golfer will count a stroke if he lays the club head on the sand when taking a shot
> ...


 My buddy and I came to a fair agreement for when we shoot against each other. If it's on the line, it goes to the lesser number. We just shoot against each other so it's not a huge deal if we lose a couple of points and it saves us from turning something fun into a fight.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

That's how it should be...obviously in or you're docked a point. I figure- if you don't like, become a better shot.


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

I can understand making an estimate then ranging it, but why write it down? That would make me think they are using the information for later. I had an open shooter ahead of me that shot each target then used a range finder to check the yardage. He never wrote anything down just checked each time. That's just a good learning tool. But really, you have to be pretty low to cheat on a league or at any shoot.


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## Camp (May 30, 2010)

he's in training .. judging yardage


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Fury90flier said:


> Ethics in 3D? maybe for some
> 
> in golf, a golfer will count a stroke if he moves the ball accidentally.
> in golf, a golfer will count a stroke if he lays the club head on the sand when taking a shot
> ...


You haven't golfers much. They are the biggest cheaters out there. Ya the pros don't but they have a million people watching.


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

I used to do it all the time .I would make a game out of it .I would guess than range it .If I was right on I would score it a 12 If I was 1-2 yrd's off I would score it a 10 if I was 3-4 yrd's off I would score it an 8 ,5 would be a 5 anything over that would be a 0 .
The targets were always moved before the shoots . I always shot a lot better back than ,I need to start that again .


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## mudd32 (Jan 4, 2014)

Just seemed kinda odd that he was walking the course and not even shooting it...and he was moving fast too, not like he was standing around trying to figure the yardage out and then range it. Once he seen us he was double timing it. Hopefully the club will change the stakes from week to week. As someone said before...kinda takes the fun out of it, it's just a league.


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## Caddo Creek (Jan 16, 2010)

A Pro I know told me that keeping a journal and studying tendencies and conditions was how he became good at judging distance. He would run in front of the Volunteers picking up targets judging and then running to the next but he swore by his journal and how it was the key to his improvement.


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## SARASR (Oct 30, 2009)

I've shot a course using a rangefinder as hunting prep prior to hunting season, but told them ahead of the shoot to not put my name down as a competitive shooter with the reason. The club had no issue with this, although I have to admit I only did it once just because it felt wrong all the same. Should also add the local 3-d in this area is more a friendly shoot than competition.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

None of the clubs here are competition. Oh they might put the results in the local newspaper so I could see a person needing to "cheat". I personally use to carry a journal and recorded all sorts of information from estimated yards, point of impact, lighting condition and rangefinder yardage. I would then look at that information Sunday evening and again during the week. It sure helped understand which targets were my strongest. It makes you a better judger and shooter, all the coaches recommend keeping a practice journal. If a "prize" was given by a club I just told them I was there for fun and practice and would not be turning my scorecard in.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Fury90flier said:


> Ethics in 3D? maybe for some
> 
> in golf, a golfer will count a stroke if he moves the ball accidentally.
> in golf, a golfer will count a stroke if he lays the club head on the sand when taking a shot
> ...


Not a good comparison, or at least incomplete. Golfers will also wait 20 min. on an official if they think that he/she might be able to improve their lie within the rules. As mentioned earlier, what you are referring to is professional golfers on TV. There is most certainly ethics and integrity to be found on the 3D ranges. From every single person? Well, of course not. If a shooter thinks his arrow is in, and it is called out, it's just silly not to voice one's opinion. It is very obvious from the threads on here that many don't understand the ASA scoring rules anyway when it comes to connecting lines.


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## Covurt (Nov 14, 2012)

If your club isn't changing the course for a competition.....they should be.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I can't think of a good reason to write down the range for each target. I'm hoping it is so he may recognize a "pattern" of errors that he can then work on to fix. However, writing down the yardage can appear to be wrongful so he should take that into consideration. Sometimes it doesn't matter if you do something wrong or not. It doesn't take much to damage your reputation.

I see a lot of folks say they judge a target and then range it for practice. For the most part I strongly suggest the reverse. Range the target and then study it with different "approaches" to judging the distance. By ranging the target first you imprint the distance and "learn" the distance. If you judge prior to ranging your first "imprint" can be wrong. After ranging you then must erase what you learned earlier and replace it with the correct observation. Of course it's important to "judge then range" but I think the reverse should be done often as well.


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## Covurt (Nov 14, 2012)

Everything I've read about practicing judging targets is to make your best judgement, range it, then keep a log of both to pick up on patterns etc. Like the one above who noticed a pattern of routinely being off on black targets.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

dw'struth said:


> Not a good comparison, or at least incomplete. Golfers will also wait 20 min. on an official if they think that he/she might be able to improve their lie within the rules. As mentioned earlier, what you are referring to is professional golfers on TV. There is most certainly ethics and integrity to be found on the 3D ranges. From every single person? Well, of course not. If a shooter thinks his arrow is in, and it is called out, it's just silly not to voice one's opinion. It is very obvious from the threads on here that many don't understand the ASA scoring rules anyway when it comes to connecting lines.


Yea, after thinking about this a little more, golfers can't be trusted either...guess I'm thinking of the limited few I know that would cut a stroke if a ball fell off a tee.

ASA rules on connecting lines? I thought it was simply touching or not touching.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

mudd32 said:


> So me and my buddy are shooting my clubs 3d course last night...since league starts in 3 weeks.
> We run across someone shooting yardages with a range finder and writing them down in a note pad....and he's not even carrying a bow.
> Assuming he is shooting the league of course.
> 
> Is it just me or is that just wrong and should something be said?


First, this is a 3D forum.... Kinda sucks when the main BS venue is over cheating. 

For the Poster, what, no guts? All you had to do was ask the guy.... Instead, you bring it here and people begin rambling over you only thinking something not right. 1 - The man wasn't shooting. 2 - League starts 3 weeks from last night. I ain't worrying for 20 days over "maybe."


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

Fury90flier said:


> That's how it should be...obviously in or you're docked a point. I figure- if you don't like, become a better shot.


Agree x 1000


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

For the most part I think the majority of shooters use good ethics. It is the few that don't that sour the game. I used to shoot 3D but the pencil pushing and other 3D "cheats" turned me off to the events. Even in small weekend events the ways to get around the rules are found. In every other archery sport double scoring is the rule of the day...not so with 3D. And the arrow must *touch* the line not push, pull, twist, almost touch, etc... Thinking about taking it up again but then I see these posts and it brings the reason I quit back up again.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Fury90flier said:


> Yea, after thinking about this a little more, golfers can't be trusted either...guess I'm thinking of the limited few I know that would cut a stroke if a ball fell off a tee.
> 
> ASA rules on connecting lines? I thought it was simply touching or not touching.


First of all....if the ball falls off the tee, no penalty is merited unless the player causes it to fall off. 

About the connector lines....surely you didn't miss the 38 pages in three different threads a few weeks ago. It's all about knowing the rules published by ASA.


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## mudd32 (Jan 4, 2014)

SonnyThomas said:


> First, this is a 3D forum.... Kinda sucks when the main BS venue is over cheating.
> 
> For the Poster, what, no guts? All you had to do was ask the guy.... Instead, you bring it here and people begin rambling over you only thinking something not right. 1 - The man wasn't shooting. 2 - League starts 3 weeks from last night. I ain't worrying for 20 days over "maybe."


Well for starters the last time I checked a 3d league would fall under the topic of 3d shooting.
#2 For your information I did ask...and he ducked his head and kept walking. I didn't think it matter to tell everyone that his body english expressed guilt for what he was doing.
And #3 and this is just me...IMO ranging it and taking notes make no sense if your not shooting...but again that's just me.
#4 if you don't like the thread or where it's going....wait for it, wait for it...............don't keep reading it.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

mudd32 said:


> Well for starters the last time I checked a 3d league would fall under the topic of 3d shooting.
> #2 For your information I did ask...and he ducked his head and kept walking. I didn't think it matter to tell everyone that his body english expressed guilt for what he was doing.
> And #3 and this is just me...IMO ranging it and taking notes make no sense if your not shooting...but again that's just me.
> #4 if you don't like the thread or where it's going....wait for it, wait for it...............don't keep reading it.


I expressed the 3D forum's main head line comes up Cheating.

You didn't say you asked to begin with or gave what you took as guilt with his body language (correct word by the way). Again, if you're going to fry your brain for the next 20 days worrying over the issue, you're the one with a problem. Go to proper people, the club, and get it the Hell off your chest....


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> I expressed the 3D forum's main head line comes up Cheating.
> 
> You didn't say you asked to begin with or gave what you took as guilt with his body language (correct word by the way). Again, if you're going to fry your brain for the next 20 days worrying over the issue, you're the one with a problem. Go to proper people, the club, and get it the Hell off your chest....



Could'nt put it any better. Dont let it bother you. Shoot YOUR shot, and dont worry about his ethics. Clearly they dont match yours.


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## mudd32 (Jan 4, 2014)

I could care less, I just figured...actually was hoping, fellow archers where better than that.
I'm not losing any sleep over it, trust me.
With this being my first 3d league I was just wondering if there was a code of ethics...


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## mudd32 (Jan 4, 2014)

(correct word by the way) 
Grammer police went out with the hula hoop son...get a life DB!!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

mudd32 said:


> (correct word by the way)
> Grammer police went out with the hula hoop son...get a life DB!!!


:embara: not.......


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

The way I see it...if he is doing it for "cheating" purposes, then he has a big problem and you prolly don't have to worry about his shooting ability! And if you are worried about what someone else is doing in 3d competition...you now have a big problem! Shoot your own game and don't worry about what anyone else is doing, especially when you don't "know" what they are doing!


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## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

dw'struth said:


> First of all....if the ball falls off the tee, no penalty is merited unless the player causes it to fall off.
> 
> About the connector lines....surely you didn't miss the 38 pages in three different threads a few weeks ago. It's all about knowing the rules published by ASA.


Even if you hit it with a practice swing there's no penalty. Don't ask me why I know this...

I was surprised by the connector line rules for ASA, I shoot IBO and had no idea


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## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

mudd32 said:


> I could care less, I just figured...actually was hoping, fellow archers where better than that.
> I'm not losing any sleep over it, trust me.
> With this being my first 3d league I was just wondering if there was a code of ethics...


To actually answer your question, this isn't an ethics question. the guy is flat out cheating IF he's truly ranging the targets he will be shooting in the league


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