# Hinge vs thumb button



## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

I am at a crossroads as to which to commit to. I do not have a problem executing a proper backtension shot with either I just need to execute that shot 100% of the time not 80. I’m struggling with the pros and cons of each type when used properly. I don’t need to hear the I punch a button so I shoot a hinge or it’s personal preference. Just some opinions of pros and cons of their functioning when shot right. 


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Pros and Cons when shot right? When either is shot right the arrow goes where you want it. So maybe explain farther...


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

I’ve been through the exact same thing. I shoot a hinge pretty well, but the few shots that are bad are really bad. 

Even shooting good with a hinge I still shoot a button better. Knowing that about myself, my focus has become controlling mental part that leads to punching. I set up my shot routine to make myself visually comfortable with the sight picture. It helps a lot.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

cbrunson said:


> I’ve been through the exact same thing. I shoot a hinge pretty well, but the few shots that are bad are really bad.
> 
> Even shooting good with a hinge I still shoot a button better. Knowing that about myself, my focus has become controlling mental part that leads to punching. I set up my shot routine to make myself visually comfortable with the sight picture. It helps a lot.


Outdoors I'm the same, indoors it's the opposite.


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

SonnyThomas said:


> Pros and Cons when shot right? When either is shot right the arrow goes where you want it. So maybe explain farther...


I guess I’ll put down some of things I’ve been thinking and maybe others can expand or add. 

Thumb button requires less motion to activate. May be a pro especially for me shooting a limb stop bow. 
Button you have to feel the increase in pressure on thumb might not be comfy with that mentally. 
Hinge most movement but naturally leads to less anticipation. 
Etc. 

In my personal situation I’ve been a hinge shooter for the last 5ish years but always go back to a button for hunting. So I shoot both and know how to shoot both well. 
I’ve been shooting a limb stop bow and although it aims better than anything I have shot my execution with my hinge just seem erratic at times between practice and tournaments. Mainly due to tension. I have not shot a button for tournaments for about as many years or more. Last I shot one for paper I was a newbie and had problems forcing a few shots thus the switch to the hinge. Now I’m much better with my shot execution and when I pick up a hinge for hunting I sometimes think dang this would be nice to shoot at paper as well as I’m shooting it with my hunting bow. Now I shoot round with it and realize I would have to commit to it to see results like I’m use to with the hinge but question if it could be better long term 


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

With a index or thumb release when it go time it's gone. With a hinge there is a wait period, whether back tension or manipulation.

So a half dozen ways to fire either the thumb release or the hinge. Pick one. 

I've used a thumb release to place and win in every type of archery event for the past 12 years, 3D, Indoor, Outdoor and Field. This in club and state sanctioned events. So I ain't really shabby and not really good, but good enough. I still hunt with a index release. I did use my thumb release this year though. Great shot that didn't pay off (gloom despair, rejection).

Switched to hinge a year ago this last September and it's been a Roller Coaster ride for sure. Right size handle, figuring what method of firing worked best for me, customized pulling posts and now gaining ground every time I practice.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

WhitBri said:


> I am at a crossroads as to which to commit to. I do not have a problem executing a proper backtension shot with either I just need to execute that shot 100% of the time not 80. I’m struggling with the pros and cons of each type when used properly. I don’t need to hear the I punch a button so I shoot a hinge or it’s personal preference. Just some opinions of pros and cons of their functioning when shot right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not a single person he can answer your question. YOU are the only person that can. I would be making my decisions based on score first and scores when you’re under pressure. The latter I would suggest is where you will lose more if you don’t have your mess together.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

I could not get my best performance with hinge as with a button....neither Field or FITA, the whole day or entire weekend tournaments flavored with gusting wind or heavy rain already messing with mind then why to swap the releases at all.
For many years I shoot cascades and now thumb buttons only but set very very sensitive....almost no motion at all in contrast to hinge.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

WhitBri said:


> I am at a crossroads as to which to commit to. I do not have a problem executing a proper backtension shot with either I just need to execute that shot 100% of the time not 80. I’m struggling with the pros and cons of each type when used properly. I don’t need to hear the I punch a button so I shoot a hinge or it’s personal preference. Just some opinions of pros and cons of their functioning when shot right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Executing the shot perfectly 100% of the time is a noble goal but doesn't happen in reality.

Striving for 80% is realistic and is what high level archers set for a goal.

If I get 60% excellent quality shot breaks at the short bale, I'm doing pretty good. 

Go to the short bale, shoot each of your releases for at least 90-100 shots and mark the quality of each shot break.
The one that has the highest percentage of quality shot breaks should be easy to identify.

This all assumes the rest of your process is ingrained and has minimal variance.
That will also show up at the short bale (or the lack of a repeatable process.)

Records of scores are also a good indicator if one style release is better.
If you have records in a log book or on your phone, great. 
If not, start using something to be able to track scores over a period of time so you can use performance data instead of anecdotal feel or short term memory.

Good luck.


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## Larry Nelson (Aug 22, 2017)

I shoot a thumb trigger and like it a lot. I have given some thought to getting a hinge, but as yet havent bought one. If you are making good shots 80% of the time then i would say your commitment should be to making good shots all the time. It shouldnt make any difference what style of release you use. As long as you make one good shot at a time. A person doesn't shoot 60 x's exceptby hitting them one at a time. In the club i belong to there is a plaque on the wall marking one persons 5021 consecutive bullseye's. That is the commitment i am striving for. What equipment i use is not important.


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

World records have been set and broken with either type in all classes. 
If that doesn't convince you that neither are superior in terms of absolute performance, nothing will. 
Use what you think works the best for you.


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## gavintanouye (Oct 9, 2017)

whiz-Oz said:


> World records have been set and broken with either type in all classes.
> If that doesn't convince you that neither are superior in terms of absolute performance, nothing will.
> Use what you think works the best for you.


Totally agree..... Which ever release you choose, blank bale with it. Blank Baling should be a standard part of anyones archery practice routine. It helps develop a consistent shot. When you take the "aiming" part out of the equation and concentrate on developing the shot process, aiming at a target and shooting will be more consistent with which ever release you choose to go with.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

WhitBri said:


> Just some opinions of pros and cons of their functioning when shot right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


One of the biggest differences is [the school of thought that] a hinge takes less different muscles to make it fire. With a hinge everything happens within the straight line of the arrow. That's the goal when shooting a button, however difficult because you introduce your thumb into the mix, even when triggering the button by relaxing your hand into your thumb, there still has to be a certain amount of pressure from the side of the line of the arrow to get it to fire. I am convinced that this difference is the main reason that the hinge has become so popular over the years with disciplined shooters. Said another way, there is little difference (if any) in the scores that can be hung with either type of release. It's just that hinge is slightly more in tune with the flow of triggering a good shot, therefore it may give the disciplined shot a slight advantage. 

The fact is, the release it's self isn't going to dictate how well you shoot. It's not going to determine your percentage of quality shots either. If you are disciplined enough to develop a good shot the differences are going to be minuscule. Which will be best for you will be entirely up to you to figure out.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I laid both down and picked one of them up and shot x's until i missed one and then switched. One will stand out as the dominant release over time.


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## gavintanouye (Oct 9, 2017)

Lazarus said:


> One of the biggest differences is [the school of thought that] a hinge takes less different muscles to make it fire. With a hinge everything happens within the straight line of the arrow. That's the goal when shooting a button, however difficult because you introduce your thumb into the mix, even when triggering the button by relaxing your hand into your thumb, there still has to be a certain amount of pressure from the side of the line of the arrow to get it to fire. I am convinced that this difference is the main reason that the hinge has become so popular over the years with disciplined shooters. Said another way, there is little difference (if any) in the scores that can be hung with either type of release. It's just that hinge is slightly more in tune with the flow of triggering a good shot, therefore it may give the disciplined shot a slight advantage.
> 
> The fact is, the release it's self isn't going to dictate how well you shoot. It's not going to determine your percentage of quality shots either. If you are disciplined enough to develop a good shot the differences are going to be minuscule. Which will be best for you will be entirely up to you to figure out.


Well said.


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## KalinC14 (Aug 30, 2017)

I started out with a Stan element, a pull through release. If you shoot this for a while and then go to either release and use the same pulling to get your shot to go off, you should be good with either one. I personally shoot a Stan sx3 (trigger release)


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Lazarus said:


> One of the biggest differences is [the school of thought that] a hinge takes less different muscles to make it fire. With a hinge everything happens within the straight line of the arrow. That's the goal when shooting a button, however difficult because you introduce your thumb into the mix, even when triggering the button by relaxing your hand into your thumb, there still has to be a certain amount of pressure from the side of the line of the arrow to get it to fire. I am convinced that this difference is the main reason that the hinge has become so popular over the years with disciplined shooters. Said another way, there is little difference (if any) in the scores that can be hung with either type of release. It's just that hinge is slightly more in tune with the flow of triggering a good shot, therefore it may give the disciplined shot a slight advantage.
> 
> The fact is, the release it's self isn't going to dictate how well you shoot. It's not going to determine your percentage of quality shots either. If you are disciplined enough to develop a good shot the differences are going to be minuscule. Which will be best for you will be entirely up to you to figure out.


But if I were to shoot a hinge, how should I do it? Rotate it, or pure back tension?

Just kidding..... don’t answer that. :grin:


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

I prefer a hinge.So many people over think the execution.Dont make it complicated.Find what method works for you and stick with jt.


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## Alex_Holliman (Nov 18, 2008)

I’ve sold my thumbs and committed to the hinge for a few months now and I can’t tell you how bad I want them back after a practice round where it feels like my hinge is frozen. So little movement to get it to break but it feels like climbing a mountain sometimes.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

cbrunson said:


> But if I were to shoot a hinge, how should I do it? Rotate it, or pure back tension?
> 
> Just kidding..... don’t answer that. :grin:


Ha. Troublemaker. 

I can't answer anyway. I don't know. I bet old uncle jane and his 290 five spot average could tell us though. :wink:


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Alex_Holliman said:


> I’ve sold my thumbs and committed to the hinge for a few months now and I can’t tell you how bad I want them back after a practice round where it feels like my hinge is frozen. So little movement to get it to break but it feels like climbing a mountain sometimes.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Been there, done that. Near to target panic. Just couldn't get over having to the let the handle rotate so dang much after taking my thumb off the pulling post. First was finding a handle that would fit my paw, so a large. My Stan Jet Black (large) has some adjustment of the pulling post and sort got me over the hill. Better things happening I had my brother make some custom pulling posts for the 3 TRU Ball HTs (two 3 finger and one 2 finger). Went through a couple modifications, but the HTs work so much better for me.
.
.
Sold my Scott Advantage yesterday to DC who is a pretty decent spot shooter. The way I grip and place the thumb there is little rotation. The way DC buries the handle in his hand and really wraps around the pulling post the Advantage was set way too cold for him. So I stayed while he adjusted the Advantage. Even when he got it set to more of his liking I didn't hold my breath and if I did I'd passed out. Lord, ain't no way I could stay in a "shot" that long, but he sure can.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Alex_Holliman said:


> I’ve sold my thumbs and committed to the hinge for a few months now and I can’t tell you how bad I want them back after a practice round where it feels like my hinge is frozen. So little movement to get it to break but it feels like climbing a mountain sometimes.


Your release isn't frozen, your hands and arms are. 

It's a good reminder to execute properly.


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## mfisher1 (Feb 5, 2018)

I use both but shoot thumb more in tournaments . I find hinge is totally contingent on relaxing, and in tournaments I am a little too jumpy. I certainly like the feel of the hinge better


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## *SWITCH (Nov 27, 2007)

Surprised no ones mentioned this yet, but a button release has a significant advantage in windy conditions over a hinge or back tension.

I see it a lot at windy comps, even the pro's drop points against archers using a button that they would normally beat by a lot on a calm day, the higher the wind the bigger the disadvantage. 

I also think a hinge requires a greater volume of shots to master and to maintain that feel for a good consistent release. So hinge is ok if you practice regularly and a lot, alternatively with a thumb trigger all I have to do is remember to squeeze my fist/thumb gently after I pre load, so less practice is required in this department.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Well, unfortunately I don't think so. I totally thought that there was a advantage to having a trigger that I could punch if I needed to and I actually carried a thumb trigger with me back when I first became a hinge shooter so that if I ran into a windy shot I could pick up the thumb trigger and survive that shot. As the years went by with my hinge shooting and attending the asa nationals and watching levi and some of the other pro shooters use their hinges in the shoot downs in the wind and then watching reo and jesse in the word cups over seas shooting their hinges I just kept wondering how they could shoot that strong in the wind.

Then it happened, I realized that I was better in the wind with my hinge than I had ever been with my trigger releases. I think it is something you have to earn to see for yourself and it only happens when you are a committed hinge shooter who doesn't jump back and forth between thumb triggers, Maybe?

I do know that when I am shooting in windy conditions with my hinge that I do command it by pausing as I get blown off and then once I bring the pin back to the 12 ring I quickly start my execution and I run it much faster than normal. I don't dump the hinge or anything like that, I simply run it much faster. In fact many times I allow myself to start the execution as my pin is approaching the 12 ring so that the second or so can happen before it fires that way that moment that my pin shows up on the 12 ring it is really ready to fire right then. I do not allow my pin to show up and expect it to sit still and then quickly run my engine. In windy conditions that is not going to happen.

Two seasons ago my 3d group went to a new shoot a couple hours from our usual stuff because there was nothing close that we normally shoot, we shot over half the course and then walked up on a 30 yard moving target on a cable. It was a little down hill of course but it was at a running speed, my buddies instantly told me I could use their thumb triggers so I didn't loose my arrow. They stepped up and shot a zero and a nickle and I stepped up and missed the 12 ring by about a 1/8 inch with my hinge. We shot it a couple more times just because my buddies were calling my shot a fluke, I shot a 12 and another 10 and they shot another zero and some 8's and never hit a 10. 

I hear this same stuff when people talk about hinges and hunting, "I have got to have that option to punch just in case I need to really bad".


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## *SWITCH (Nov 27, 2007)

Padgett said:


> > Well, unfortunately I don't think so. I totally thought that there was a advantage to having a trigger that I could punch if I needed to......
> 
> 
> Ah to be clear I never punch in the wind, but command shooting is quicker to execute with a trigger than a hinge when i'm waiting for that right moment to release in wind.
> ...


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Padgett said:


> I hear this same stuff when people talk about hinges and hunting, "I have got to have that option to punch just in case I need to really bad".


Yeah this is one of those decisions I had to make when I went back to an index finger release a while back. Not a hinge or a thumb button, I know, but the idea for me had to be the same now that I was back to using a trigger: I had to decide that once and for all until the day I die, squeezing or punching the trigger on that thing was just not an option. I was only allowed to fire it pull-through style no matter how dire the situation will ever be and that just had to be part of my overall mental game.

What I do when the situation really is an emergency, is I also just speed my execution up if I have to. At indoor nationals last year, I got into a situation where I had about 3 seconds on the clock and me and one other guy were the only ones left on the line at full draw in the entire building. At that point it was either a miss or just get it on the paper somewhere, so I just heaved it off instead of squeezing or punching. That's kind of how you sorta-command the release with a tension-style, so that's what I carried over to my index finger.

Now I try to never let it get to that point, but if it ever does, squeezing/punching is still simply not an option that's available in any circumstance. If it becomes one in my mind, the danger is going back to the TP days, days I never want to go back to . 

So I definitely agree with Padgett here....

lee.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, once you let go of that urge your shooting changes and until you do it you cant really be told what it feels like.

Totally worth it though.


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## *SWITCH (Nov 27, 2007)

There was an article by Dietmar Trillus years ago on command shooting in response to people saying he was a puncher, wish I could find it, if anyone has it I would appreciate the link or pdf etc.


I think a lot of people who start punching and getting TP stems from using a light trigger.... I see this constantly especially with beginners, they set up their thumb or finger near to the barrel/button and then press their thumb on it, some are so wild with it! Or they are just barely touching the barrel and then press it either gently or aggressively, this invariably leads to TP or drive by shooting but all of it results in mostly bad inconsistent scores, and frustration. 

Trillus explains that instead you should use a spring or tension on your trigger that's stiff enough to the wrap your thumb/finger around without fear of it going off, this also pre loads the trigger so it requires just a small increase in pressure to go off from that point. as long as your back tension is set just squeeze gently and your golden.

when I read this and watched him shoot I was like wow so simple and effective, it also has the benefit that you don't have to change the way you release in the wind like you do with a hinge, and no delays. if i'm shooting a 1440 or 720 in medium or high fluctuating winds, me having to change one of my constants, and probably the most important one, is not something I want to have to do.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Padgett said:


> Yeah, once you let go of that urge your shooting changes and until you do it you cant really be told what it feels like.
> 
> Totally worth it though.


By the way, a couple weeks ago, just for grins I tried squeezing the trigger on purpose for a couple shots to see what would happen. Literally, in 4 arrows 3 years of complete TP/flinching remission were completely gone and on the 4th arrow I flinched just like in the old days..... 
Fortunately, I was back to normal immediately when I resumed my usual shot execution, but it was amazing how immediately and forcefully all my troubles returned when I decided to try to command the shot.... 

lee.


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## *SWITCH (Nov 27, 2007)

lees said:


> By the way, a couple weeks ago, just for grins I tried squeezing the trigger on purpose for a couple shots to see what would happen. Literally, in 4 arrows 3 years of complete TP/flinching remission were completely gone and on the 4th arrow I flinched just like in the old days.....
> Fortunately, I was back to normal immediately when I resumed my usual shot execution, but it was amazing how immediately and forcefully all my troubles returned when I decided to try to command the shot....
> 
> lee.


ha once you have gone down that road once forever will it lurk in your psyche ...lolz

probably coz I've done so many command shots now, the physical action of me squeezing my fist with a slight increase in back tension is an automatic one. yes i'm mentaly "commanding" myself to release, but this is also true with a hinge or back tension. 

BT and hinge are definitely a good way to avoid TP or banging the trigger if you've already gone down that road.

touch would I've never punched or had TP, strongly believe its down to using a trigger the correct way from the start.

As usual best thing is for the OP to try for themselves


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

*SWITCH said:


> ha once you have gone down that road once forever will it lurk in your psyche ...lolz
> 
> probably coz I've done so many command shots now, the physical action of me squeezing my fist with a slight increase in back tension is an automatic one. yes i'm mentaly "commanding" myself to release, but this is also true with a hinge or back tension.
> 
> ...


Yes, agree. And actually if you really think about it, even a pull-through style execution is ultimately "command" shooting. It just happens to be a very slow and steady command . The key, I think, is that as long as the instantaneous release itself is a surprise (meaning timed by the release aid and not the shooter), you generally won't have anticipation problems. If you can mask that timing well enough that your brain can't ever finally figure it out and hone in on it, there won't be any way to anticipate it and you'll remain free of the body's natural flinch/brace response that underlies target panic. 

So maybe "command shooting" isn't precisely the right term. I like Bill Wenke's term "timing the shot", personally. That describes the difference between a working execution and a non-working one for me....

lee.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Yesterday I was reminded of a few things as a tough course totally kicked my butt with my hinge. 

Earlier in this thread when I said that there was a point in my shooting where I was better with my hinge in the wind than I had been with a trigger, well that was when I was at my best. At that point in time when I had tons of hours in my shooting and was running on all 8 cylinders yeah, I was able to rattle off really strong shooting in windy conditions. Yesterday for 15 out of the 30 targets I had a tough windy condition to deal with every shot and I did nothing but struggle and suffer to execute at all as I got blown around and I failed miserably. I couldn't stay in the 10 ring no matter how hard I tried to stay smooth and let things happen. 

On target 16 after a coke and a butterfinger at the halfway point I put on my new tru ball execute that I have shot some this winter and I walked around the rest of the course and easily stayed in the 10 ring and got some 12's and enjoyed easily sending arrows on their way without suffering.

I was not overly pin point accurate with the wrist strap, I simply could step up and shoot a nice 10 that had a chance to be a 12 every single shot.


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## *SWITCH (Nov 27, 2007)

Padgett said:


> Yesterday I was reminded of a few things as a tough course totally kicked my butt with my hinge.
> 
> On target 16 after a coke and a butterfinger at the halfway point I put on my new tru ball execute that I have shot some this winter and I walked around the rest of the course and easily stayed in the 10 ring and got some 12's and enjoyed easily sending arrows on their way without suffering.
> 
> I was not overly pin point accurate with the wrist strap, I simply could step up and shoot a nice 10 that had a chance to be a 12 every single shot.


yeh, this is were I think a hinge can be a disadvantage, like I said u need to be shooting it a lot to maintain your best game, or maybe it was the coke and butterfinger dude?! lol


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## OCHO505 (May 27, 2010)

Padgett said:


> Yesterday I was reminded of a few things as a tough course totally kicked my butt with my hinge.
> 
> Earlier in this thread when I said that there was a point in my shooting where I was better with my hinge in the wind than I had been with a trigger, well that was when I was at my best. At that point in time when I had tons of hours in my shooting and was running on all 8 cylinders yeah, I was able to rattle off really strong shooting in windy conditions. Yesterday for 15 out of the 30 targets I had a tough windy condition to deal with every shot and I did nothing but struggle and suffer to execute at all as I got blown around and I failed miserably. I couldn't stay in the 10 ring no matter how hard I tried to stay smooth and let things happen.
> 
> ...


I think its refreshing to do this from time to time and clear the mind. I gave up wrist strap but really liked that Execute when I tried it!


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