# Ibo 2015



## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

I would really like to see it be legal to use a single pin hunting sight and not have to compete in the open class. There is a lot of shooters, matter a fact all the shooters in my area use moveable single pin sights. Hard to get people to shoot IBO when they have to jump to the open class......Just my hopes........


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

Same here in the south not many shoots will let you use them


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

you can use them, you just can't move them. Movable sight is what makes Open Class.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Sorry but a moveable sight is not what makes open class. Open class uses full blown target set ups with lenses and sticks. A hunter doesnt want to shoot 50 yards and compete with all that just cause he has a movebale sight.


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## jrbenoit (Jul 9, 2012)

Im not sure where I saw this (maybe asa) but you could use an adjustable single pin just as long as the adjustment is behind the riser. Even if it is not true I still think it's a good idea.
Hey Leon ,I'll see ya in St.A.


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## Kighty7 (Feb 7, 2004)

I 2nd that, a true hunter class with 40 or 45 max. Single pin adjustable with only 4 inches of site beyond the riser. 12 inch max stab on front and a single point of attachment. Screw in points as well. I am in 100% and think it would be amazing! I would use my HHA all day long and have a blast.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

You will JR, Im all for 40 yard max with single pin not including micro adjust target sights. When we had the triple crown in Vt we had this class and it was a big sucsess.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Even in IBO they have MBR, fixed pins and long stabilizers, it is the movable sight that makes it Open Class, and not everyone in open shoots a lense. You don't want to shoot against Open shooters but do you think there should be another class for you or do you think the hunter class guys with fixed pins should have to shoot against you.

I also think they could change MBR to what you want because MBR seems to be going to the way side.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Nope what im trying to say is there should bea class for the moveable hunter with a 35 to 40 yard max. Not quite sure where you come up with us shooting against the fixed pin guys. Not looking for a fight just think we should have a class.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

Leon Garfield said:


> My honest opinionis there should no difference. Someone that is good with fixed pins can shoot just as good as someone with a hunter stlye moveable pin sight. So you say the sight is the only difference why is there 15 yards added to the open class? The hunter class should be just that. Another thing i dont get is why in open majority of the shots seem to be 37 to 45 yards. Just because you have a moveable pin.
> All i am saying is a moveable hunting set up doesnt make you the open distance shooter by any means.


Fixed pins and moveable pin set up are very different especially at longer ranges MBR is brutal to shoot the guys who shoot it well are great shots. Now if you want to shoot a slider sight shoot MBO trust me 15 yards is a big deal..... I agree that the IBO needs to make a few changes one of them is known classes. Lets be honest a 340 IBO bow 60# 28 inch draw can shoot most hc courses with a single 27 yd pin.......


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Wow once again not seeing what i asked for. I know mbo is way different thanhc thats why i think a hunter class for moveable pins is whats needed. Remember not everyone wants to shoot the long distances. And yes fixed pins suck as far as im concerned.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

what distance would you say is fair in a moveable pin hunter class


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

40 yard max with hunter stabalizers.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

thats what ahc shoots. I could see 45 yards.... look at hc and ahc scores if you let those guys dial in yardage you are looking at plus 30 scores for anything under 40 yards. I am not a fixed pin shooter and wold love to see a class that you describe but I think the course has to be longer that the fixed pin classes... I would love to see the ibo limit speed like asa....


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

There is very shooters in ahc i say they all go hunter. How cares what the scores go to make it about the shooter not all the distance. Judging is still a big part of the game. Im trying to get more shooters to shoot and making them buy a fixed pin or shoot open is just flat out stupid and looses us shooters all the time....


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

thats why longer distances are important... 35 yard max can be shot with a single 27 pin with a bow that shoots over 305 ft per sec


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Well my bow shoots 345 and one pin still leaves way to much of holding. Not sure why everyone thinks distance is the deal. Make open shppters a close range shoot and it will come ro the shooter and Xs. When you look at scores and the top 10 have a spread of 45 points what makes the guys past them want to keep comong and loosing by 70 points?


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

shoot your set up at 50 yard max and then at 35 there will be a big spread. if you see 33 and its 30 you catch8 maybe top 10... you see 47 and its 44 its a 5....


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Yup your 100% right i have shot my share of open. Not into that distance anymore, after 3 eye surgerys and arthritis im just not there. Im a indoor bullseye shooter and hunter now. Thats why i say open is for guys like you and guys like me hust want a place to shoot our hunting bows without getting beat up buy guys like you.....lol


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

shoot your set up at 50 yard max and then at 35 there will be a big spread. if you see 33 and its 30 you catch8 maybe top 10... you see 47 and its 44 its a 5.... 

I doubt you get beat up on a 3d course by me..... I am a dot and field guy who hunts (alot)... I use a single pin tommy hogg sight for hunting and a cbe target elite for dots and field. I cant shoot multipins for **** and yardage judgement is crap.... I love your idea to a point but the HC has shooters that should not be shooting entry level... give those guys moveable pins and they never out


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Oh yeah they will be,,,,,lol


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

Leon Garfield said:


> Oh yeah they will be,,,,,lol


thats all I am saying. I think we see things the same way...


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## arlowe13 (Aug 9, 2010)

I think they should just allow moveable sights in AHC, makes the most sense to me.


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## LEP (Sep 25, 2005)

I shoot IBO MBR class. Max yards 45 fixed pins no limit on stab. I wouldnt be against a single moveable non magnified sight being allowed in MBR class.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes moveable sights allowed in ahc,,,,,,,.......


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

Leon Garfield said:


> Yes moveable sights allowed in ahc,,,,,,,.......


i shoot AHC no way its a fixed pinned league


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

I think the main issue is shooter numbers. There are a lot of guys who hunt with slider style sites but have no interest in shooting 50 yards. Some believe in the importance of opening things up so they can practice at the distances they hunt and are comfortable shooting. These shooters do not in general want to compete against the target style of equipment so they don't come. It may help bring a few more shooters back into the game. At the very least give them a reason to improve their practice and game.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

MBr with movable pins makes sense


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## osagebender (Feb 24, 2013)

rohpenguins said:


> MBr with movable pins makes sense


I shoot hunter and now ahc and mbr would be perfect, less then 50 in that class anyways, it would boom to over 150 shooters


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Define "moveable sight" such that high quality "target" sights would not be legal while high quality moveable hunting sight would be. Define a "moveable sight Hunter" class such that real good archers won't beat the pants off the not so good archers. 

Unless you have a way to make folks "win out" or "move out" of an entry level class (equipment is not relevant) you will have guys hanging in the class whipping up on other archers. Most guys try to "move up" the food chain but the fact is some guys will absolutely sit in an _entry_ or lower level class. Winning is all they care about.........unfortunately I think a lot of these guys will use a pencil or blurry vision if necessary.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

In very few exceptions will you find a time that a fixed pin site shooter be as accurate as a move able site holding pin on every time. You will chase out the pin shooters in MBR and that is not the point of opening a new class. The idea works on opening a class for all the hunter who use a slider style site who don't attend now because of yardage in open and the target style equipment. Remember MBR already uses target style of stabilizer lengths and configuration not just a single point of attachment. Slider sites are all over hunting shows guy want to use them just not shooting against target set ups.


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## hoyt316 (Mar 7, 2006)

I want a class the way I want it. Lets make me a class so I will be happy! Give me a break. Do you know how this sounds let's change a class or make one so I will be happy playing with others.How old are you? I'm 49 years old shoot open class and know I can't win my class because of my age. Wait for the senios just like the rest of use. You will have a 45 yard max and use what ever moveable sight you want.


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## johncraddock445 (Aug 7, 2012)

All this complaining about ibo... Region's has the extreme hunter class (100% payout) which is EXACTLY what you guys are saying you are wanting... 40 yard max with movable sight and what do ya know... no one shows up to Shoot it


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Ahc class with hunting style moveable sights is what we need........


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Hey hoyt316, u dont recall anyone whinning but maybe you, i dont need any payout just would like to se a class for moveable with 40 yard max. You can shoot open all you want but not everyone wants to play that game. Keep it as it is fine with me, but dont ***** cause numbers are.down.........


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Leon Garfield said:


> Ahc class with hunting style moveable sights is what we need........


Maybe but AHC moveable pin class wouldn't be much different from MBR. Good luck keeping the high quality adjustable target sights out of the class.

Known distances classes would actually draw a LOT more new archers/members. No guessing or assuming, it has been proven! The IBO would have measurably greater tournament attendance.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Guess im missing something. Mbr is fixed pin any stabalizers whuch is nothing like ahc other than fixed pins. Ibo has 3 classes all fixed pin makes absolutely no sense at all.


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## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

I can see the need for the 3 different fixed pin classes with a different set of stabilizer rules for each one. Go back to the old HC rules for HC, use the current stabilizer rule that is being used in both HC and AHC for AHC only and keep the MBR rules as is. I think a known class for rear sliding hunting sight with stabilizer restrictions and a 40 yd max would be appealing to additional shooters and could help bump up attendance.


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

johncraddock445 said:


> All this complaining about ibo... Region's has the extreme hunter class (100% payout) which is EXACTLY what you guys are saying you are wanting... 40 yard max with movable sight and what do ya know... *no one shows up to Shoot it*


Ding, Ding, Ding!! We have a winner!!


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## tank69kma (May 1, 2013)

johncraddock445 said:


> All this complaining about ibo... Region's has the extreme hunter class (100% payout) which is EXACTLY what you guys are saying you are wanting... 40 yard max with movable sight and what do ya know... no one shows up to Shoot it


Wa pow! Then in 6 months everyone would be whining about this class for some reason!


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## rayray8302 (May 3, 2013)

If they do it, no arrows above a 22 series


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

johncraddock445 said:


> All this complaining about ibo... Region's has the extreme hunter class (100% payout) which is EXACTLY what you guys are saying you are wanting... 40 yard max with movable sight and what do ya know... no one shows up to Shoot it


You can lead a horse to water...but you can't make him wash....I've been saying the same thing about nobody showing up at the Regions shoot.


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## hoyt316 (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't see what you want making the numbers better in any way. What has there been a big growth in the sale of cheap moveable sights lately. They could add a lot more shooters but they don't want to I guess. Its just a guess but I would say a known class would bring a hundred plus more to each shoot. The buddy system and shooting when you want though I do like them hurt them. People now a day's want to get there get it done and get out and not wait. They want to make sure that its on the up and up and don't like buddy's shooting together. Numbers down because let face it you got to change with times and they will not. People are not going to spend thousands of dallors going to fun shoots. I didnt know you were worried about the numbers being low. The way I read it sounded like you wanted your own class.


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## josechno (Sep 20, 2007)

We will see after the year I would like to see changes but don't think it will happen 
Be nice to have known hunter men and women, known open men and women, put pros on site, and for God sake bust up the groups


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## hoyt316 (Mar 7, 2006)

I do thank they need to make more open classes and a known yardage class. Why if you were out to get shooters why would you turn so many away. But if you say you can only use a hunting movable sight its not going to add a lot of shooters. In my opion the way things are right now some don't have the money to shoot both so you better work at being the best and there not doing that right now.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

hoyt316 said:


> I do thank they need to make more open classes and a known yardage class. Why if you were out to get shooters why would you turn so many away. But if you say you can only use a hunting movable sight its not going to add a lot of shooters. In my opion the way things are right now some don't have the money to shoot both so you better work at being the best and there not doing that right now.


That can't happen because defining a "movable hunting sight" itself such that typical target sights would be illegal would be very difficult at best. Besides I think I could "tweak" the top shelf HHA moveable "hunting sight" to be a very accurate "target sight fairly easily. First thing I'd do is mount my small CBE scope with it's .010 pin and LP Light. I would then put an extension on the HHA to put the scope further away from my eye.......... Spot Hogg Boss Hogg is a top shelf sight that would do well in "moveable pin hunter" class as it is designed. I seriously doubt the best AHC guys would have any problem changing sights and completely dominating a similar class.


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

there should also be a class for people who use 1.75 vanes, and another that only uses 80 gr points. there should definately be one for people who wear sleeveless tshirts. there are crap load of classes already how many do we need, how many personal equipment choices should determine what classes there is? 

i would like a 25 yard class that can use a movable sight...not a 25 yard max ...25 yards...all 40 targets. look i get it, you want hunter to be open to movable sights, i dont have a problem with it, its current hunting technology. but do we need anoither class? i do know people who still shoot multuiple pins, for hunting and comp.

the IBO has a place for any equipment to shoot. is it fair for an olympic style shooter to have to shoot open? yes...its covered in the rules.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Wow it is real easy setting back reading this thread to figure out why 3d has declinned........


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

I will also say that must be sponsorship contracts have changed alot. Looking at some of the signatures here. I like your way of promoting the sport of archery.......


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

the situation is... there just casnnot be a class for ever persons personal equipment choices. there is no max on OPEN stablizers, there is no requirement for them either, nor a minimum. if your sight moves it is covered in the open class, is it hunting gear? yes, but i did hunt 2 years with a tek target.

there is a class in IBO for any equipment you use. play or dont its up to you.

i dont disagree about what constitues hunting gear, the state of the art is movable sights, could they be allowed in AHC? i can see it for the future, should they be allowed? yes...that is my opinion only.

i also see that there is no real stepping stone to open, AHC would fit that bill nicely. my local to NH/ northern Ma has a "renegade" hunter class, all open gear other than a lens is fair. it just turned out that people like the cool gear but didnt like shooting lower scores when they moved from HC to Open. so they created a class. it just made a lot of open guys drop down.

Leon, you are aware that this is Archery Talk? world renowned for being a site full of bashers and trashers? it would be nice if everyone could be repectful in their views, but people feel strongly about them. also...if you are looking at this page, you are already drinking the koolaide, i believe this page is suppoed to be for people to discuss current issues in 3d. a behind the closed doors type discussions. it is not facebook where non archers are looking and may be detered from trying by listening to these re-dic-u-lous threads.

other than not being kind to sleeveless fashion, there was nothing in my last post that i reviewd and saw as detrimental to the sport, i do have some contract sponsors listed, i am hoping it was not my post you found so bothersome. if it is i apologize .

that being said, i am honest( atleast how i see things) and straight forward, i would lose all my sponsors before i would pander to anyone.


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

we add classes because of threads like this and public outcry.....how may traditional classes are there? crapload. is there one for olympic/fita recurve gear? not in tradional...they have to shoot open. with the growth of that dicepline, i think that should be addressed prior to making new hc classes.





Leon Garfield said:


> Guess im missing something. Mbr is fixed pin any stabalizers whuch is nothing like ahc other than fixed pins. Ibo has 3 classes all fixed pin makes absolutely no sense at all.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

This has been my first year shooting IBO after 30 years of shooting. I can honestly say it will be my last.....


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

So let me get this right,,,,,, you all seem to agree that todays technolgy is moveable hunting sights. So i am to tell a back yard 30 yard shooter with a lets say hha sight, he can come to an ibo shot, pay $30 to belong, $30 to shoot and shoot 38 to 50 yards all day long and loose arrows at $15 each??????? Yup that makes perfect sense..............


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Leon Garfield said:


> So let me get this right,,,,,, you all seem to agree that todays technolgy is moveable hunting sights. So i am to tell a back yard 30 yard shooter with a lets say hha sight, he can come to an ibo shot, pay $30 to belong, $30 to shoot and shoot 38 to 50 yards all day long and loose arrows at $15 each??????? Yup that makes perfect sense..............


Who goes straight from the backyard to a national level shoot? That's like playing catch in the backyard with your Dad and then going to pitch in MLB, you're going to get lit up!!


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Really i would have to say looking at scores there is a lot of back yard shooters going to ibo. But thanks for clearing that up for us. IBO is not for beginners....... Do you even think before you type...


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Leon Garfield said:


> This has been my first year shooting IBO after 30 years of shooting. I can honestly say it will be my last.....


It's just a GAME so enjoy the game and let the rest go...........



Leon Garfield said:


> So let me get this right,,,,,, you all seem to agree that todays technolgy is moveable hunting sights. So i am to tell a back yard 30 yard shooter with a lets say hha sight, he can come to an ibo shot, pay $30 to belong, $30 to shoot and shoot 38 to 50 yards all day long and loose arrows at $15 each??????? Yup that makes perfect sense..............


I've said it many times. Clearly define a moveable sight such that the current target sights would be illegal. Clearly define the class such that it's not simply another low participation class. I can about guarantee I can take a top end HHA slider and turn it into a very nice "target/hunting sight" in fairly short order! I've already seen them done. Mounting a smaller diameter scope with a smaller diameter pin would take minutes. Bolting an extension to put the sight further out would take even less time. If someone is shooting 300 fps or higher they really don't need more than a single pin in a 30 yard class! Lock that puppy down on 24 yards and have at it.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

My buddy shot his CBE Tek Target locked down on 27 yards in the Hunter class this year. 35 yard max class.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> My buddy shot his CBE Tek Target locked down on 27 yards in the Hunter class this year. 35 yard max class.


I bet he never completely aimed with his pin outside of the 10 ring. Of course this requires a fast arrow!


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Leon Garfield said:


> Really i would have to say looking at scores there is a lot of back yard shooters going to ibo. But thanks for clearing that up for us. IBO is not for beginners....... Do you even think before you type...


I guess if you don't like an opinion you just attack the person. Glad you are an all knowing god of archery to correct all of us lowly folks on how things are


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

Leon Garfield said:


> So let me get this right,,,,,, you all seem to agree that todays technolgy is moveable hunting sights. So i am to tell a back yard 30 yard shooter with a lets say hha sight, he can come to an ibo shot, pay $30 to belong, $30 to shoot and shoot 38 to 50 yards all day long and loose arrows at $15 each??????? Yup that makes perfect sense..............


yes todays technology is 1 pin hunting sights, todays technology is also rangefinders for hunting. IBO is a bowhunting organisation..THAT HOLDS MATCHES, the matches dont shoot at bleeding animals either as one would in hunting. technology and the rules dont have to mesh. the rules simply need to be followed for them to be fair. if you are going to spend 15 on arrows and shoot national matches, you could buy a longer stabilizer, or a fixed pin and shoot close, or lock it down...loads of options already. i know a couple higher ups i can see if we can get the Leon class up and running by 2015.

or , in order to improve the shooting experiance for everyone, you could stay home, or shoot regions....ethier way should improve the IBO a bit. thanks for your input. you are a bit of a pill.


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

so that being said.....i am not an awesome shooter by any stetch, i shoot MBO, its what my gears falls into. my choice was put on my bigboy pants and shoot, the scores came up and are still coming up when i put some effort in. i never thought of complaining until someone made an open class just for me.


no one makes you shoot a single pin. NOBODY. it is your CHOICE to shoot them. follow the rules and compete.


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## DCPA (Jan 10, 2012)

I am no means that good at shooting in mbo class. But i do like using a movable sight so I guess Im stuck there just breaking 220 most of the time. Lol


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

and THAT being said, if you suck so bad that you will lose all your arrows, (misjudge by 10+ yards.) in the 15 extra yards in open....the IBO is not for you anyways.


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

makin friends all day every day....thats just me


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

Just when I thought I heard it all...nope, I just get on AT, and "BAM" there it is!!! One more stupid conversation taking place!


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Lol, well it has been interesting for sure. Im going to the IBO qualifier this weekend in Vt as well as the shoot out next weekend. I shot open first round going hc this round but i thank you all for your imput I think, lol Im a pill for sure i could care less I shoot to shoot. My main point was instead of riding alone this weekend and next i would like to get some friends shooting. That i guess wont happen cause there all hha and not interested in fixed pins or open distance. 
My definition of a moveable hunting sight is just that we all know what they are and un altered. I for one am following the rules as you mention that i guess is why i suggested a moveable hunter class. 
I am a little confused why we need 3 classes for fixed oin with 2 of them only havung 5 yards difference? Hell put on one more pin....lol.......
Supermag i didnt take your post as an opinion i took it as a snart reply so sorry if i ruffled your featherssss


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## DCPA (Jan 10, 2012)

silhouette13 said:


> so that being said.....i am not an awesome shooter by any stetch, i shoot MBO, its what my gears falls into. my choice was put on my bigboy pants and shoot, the scores came up and are still coming up when i put some effort in. i never thought of complaining until someone made an open class just for me.
> 
> 
> no one makes you shoot a single pin. NOBODY. it is your CHOICE to shoot them. follow the rules and compete.


I put my big boy pants on as well. I dont complain about the yardages. I just go out and try my best.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Well i dont recal complaining about the yardages at all. Im glad you boys finally put your big boy pants in. At 6'6" 350lbs I wear mine all the time. Hey Dave look me up next weekend Im real curious to see if your this mouthy in person when your not behund the computer screen.... Ill be.the big guy with the neon orange camo pse cant miss my big boy pants.......


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

well crap. i was going to apologize for letting frustrations in other issues i was having boil over to AT, as it really was me having a bad day. now i guess i will maybe get my ass kicked at an IBO match. that will suck.

i am not 6'6 and 350, i will not be in VT, it will have to wait until NH. i will be the guy running the match. i am a grown up, but if you have the need to try and intimidate me by being big and scary.... your business.

i am 6' 309. i will be wearing eithe an IBO shirt or a PSE shirt. if you NEED to punch me, give me some warning so i can change into something that wont be ruined by blood. this has just become playground horse ****.






i look like this.

i welcome the chance to discuss any topic at Pemi, but really dont expect me to be cowering in the corner, i am 45 years old, well over this kind of crap, and have been hit before, although it has been a while.
you are certainly not the first person in this industry to find me unsavory.


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

**** just so you know, i hear questions and opinions on what classes SHOULD or SHOULDNT be and known yardage and shot gun starts EVERY day. my inbox is chock full of them. gets old.**** i will certainly apologize to the AT usership in full for letting myselff be involved in something that does detract from the sport. the DIY section is much friendlier....i will try and limit my usage to there.

i especially wish to aplogize to any sponsors who find my opinions and manner of communicating bothersome. my delivery was impatient in some of the post, not all, but still not good representation.

i AM a rep for the IBO, my post werer MY Opinion and in no way reflect any official stand by the IBO, who are working hard despite threads like this would have every one believe. i personally have well over 200 hrs invested and 20 hours of drive time on my dime (f150) for the IBO shooters in New England. what we get is free meberships and the inability to shoot our matches. yet we still do it.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Wow you are a IBO rep....,,,,,,, so i guess my friiend Jon should really have a talk with you for sure. I am glad of one thing to see you at least apoligize to your sponsors. I will be at Pemi for sure I am going to support my friend Jon Brown and all his hard work putting this series together.......


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

I am glad of one thing to see you at least apoligize to your sponsors. I will be at Pemi for sure I am going to support my friend Jon Brown and all his hard work putting this series together....... Again i didnt say i was going to hit ya, you really need to stop putting words in that arent there. My original post was a suggestion to ibo that was it..... I used to run shoots in the 80s so i know all about the thankless hours. I do accept your apology and commend you for being man enough to post it.....


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Leon Garfield said:


> Well i dont recal complaining about the yardages at all. Im glad you boys finally put your big boy pants in. At 6'6" 350lbs I wear mine all the time. Hey Dave look me up next weekend Im real curious to see if your this mouthy in personwhen your not behund the computer screen.... Ill be.the big guy with the neon orange camo pse cant miss my big boy pants .......





silhouette13 said:


> **** just so you know, i hear questions and opinions on what classes SHOULD or SHOULDNT be and known yardage and shot gun starts EVERY day. my inbox is chock full of them. gets old.**** i will certainly apologize to the AT usership in full for letting myselff be involved in something that does detract from the sport. the DIY section is much friendlier....i will try and limit my usage to there.
> 
> i especially wish to aplogize to any sponsors who find my opinions and manner of communicating bothersome. my delivery was impatient in some of the post, not all, but still not good representation.
> 
> i AM a rep for the IBO, my post werer MY Opinion and in no way reflect any official stand by the IBO, who are working hard despite threads like this would have every one believe. i personally have well over 200 hrs invested and 20 hours of drive time on my dime (f150) for the IBO shooters in New England. what we get is free meberships and the inability to shoot our matches. yet we still do it.


You really do NOT need to apologize for anything! "Mr. 6'6" 350 lbs" with the big mouth called you out! It sure seems he struggles to have a discussion where others disagree with him. Mr. "6'6" 350 lbs" has a hard time dealing with the fact he is very much less than intimidating in a verbal discussion so he feels it necessary to tell everyone that he's a "big man". 



Leon Garfield said:


> Wow you are a IBO rep....,,,,,,, so i guess my friiend Jon should really have a talk with you for sure . I am glad of one thing to see you at least apoligize to your sponsors. I will be at Pemi for sure I am going to support my friend Jon Brown and all his hard work putting this series together.......


Really? A not so subtle threat to go tattle tail to "your friend"........ Who the heck is your "friend Jon" anyway? Forget it, I don't care who he is and doubt anyone else does. 

silhouette13, don't let this BIG guy running to his "friend" whining about you get under your skin! I would worry much about Mr. Big Stuff I expect that if he says he's 350 he's probably closer to 450 and wouldn't last more than a minute in a throw down especially at his age...........


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

fact is Leon, i can be a bit of an a hole, i do suspct JB will have some input. my frustrations should have been tempered. they were not. that is clearly my bad. i do not take back my points on why or what classes are there and that you can choose your class, or your equipment, the choices are not always compatible.

should i have sigled you out, nope. but in my defense, you were replying to my post, which i feel were pretty staright forward( at first). its a public forum. more to the POINT its AT, i would think you would be used to this type thing...you have 1500 post.

i intend to put on a great match at Pemi, with the help of all the hard working reps in the northeast and the fine group at Pemi. best of luck this weekend and next.

if there is ANYTHING we can learn from this long winded and unproductive thread is.... i am Handsome as my signature suggests.

every one should give JB a high five , the series is his dream and he has made it happen.


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

i am chill,

whatever , i have aspirations, if i am to realize them i need to gain some control. this kind of crap does not reflect well wether i am right or wrong, and that is always dependant on ones perspective.

i am afaid of no one but my wife. so if the need does arise i am standing up for my self. and if one was to ask Jon if i am mouthy in person i am sure he will say yes. its part of who i am. cant change that i am passionate about my opinions either. it would not serve me or the IBO to be a patsy.

if it ends up in the gravel so be it. 

being a pro as i hope to be at some point, means professional, i need to be professional before i go pro. it just the right thing to do.


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## silhouette13 (Feb 26, 2007)

so that sub topic sees to be over..... lets get back on topic. i have no more input.

seems we are typing at the same time. so from my end i am killing it.


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

Yup Dave im all done See ya next week.......


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## unks24 (Jul 6, 2012)

Tune in next time for the next episode of "As the Arrow Flies" Thanks for the entertainment everyone!!!!


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## unks24 (Jul 6, 2012)

Also I am old and fat I can't beat up anyone and I don't want beat up, and I shoot terrible... I do enjoy reading on AT though.


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## Thornearcher (Sep 8, 2007)

Leon Garfield said:


> Sorry but a moveable sight is not what makes open class. Open class uses full blown target set ups with lenses and sticks. A hunter doesnt want to shoot 50 yards and compete with all that just cause he has a movebale sight.


4 years ago I shot an ASA open class with fixed pins was told I would be at a disadvantage and tore it up at the state shoot.


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

This has to be the dumbest thread ever!!! WOW!


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