# Bareshaft tuning and electrical tape



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

ditch the tape...not necessary for BS tuning. 

also, if the tape is hitting the rest (well, less it's really thick and you're not using a drop away), you have some tuning to do...center shot, spine etc...something. By the time the aback part of the arrow gets to the rest, nothing should touch the rest....no, arrows DO NOT ride on the rest.


Are you BS tuning through paper only or are you shooting for groups at 20 or so yards? Just a hint...just because you have a bullet hole in paper does not mean you're tuned. As a test, get a perfect bullet hole, do 20 yard BS vs fletched tuning-- go back to paper...you'll find that you no longer have a bullet hole.


So, what rest?
can you provide a pic of the taped area? Maybe we can make a suggestion as to how to remedy the issue-- assuming you still want to tape the shaft.

heat shrink tubing also works well...


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I removed the tape right away so cannot post pictures. Also I do have a perfect bullet hole with paper tuning but I know BS will not be that perfect. Basically it is not , I already check without the tape but then someone told me to use the tape at the end. 
Since tape is not required I will BS tune with out it. And I do it at 20 yards. My rest is QAD Ultra Rest HDX.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

ask around about that rest...I know some have had issues with it.

On BS testing at distance. Pay more attention to impact location than tail kick out. You can go from a straight arrow to tail kickout just by having bad gas.

If you're sure DL is right...play with grip and how you pull the loop at release to move tail kick out.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I have to be honest. One time I have a bow with exchangeable draw length modules. I tried 28.5" , 29" and 29.5" and did not notice any difference. I was shooting the same all the time. So I have no idea how to pick the right draw length. I have seen people that change draw length from 29" to 29-1/8" and they said it feels much better :mg: I was shocked.


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## Berdo (Dec 21, 2013)

I put an arrow wrap on my bare shafts to mimic the weight of the vanes. My other arrows don't have wraps


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

I think the tape is unnecessary and over-kill.

All my arrows these days have a 5" wrap on them, so I install the wrap and leave the feathers off. I can't tell the difference.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Good to know. I will tune without the tape then. Also one more question. Is it okay if my target is on the ground while I'm tuning at 20 yards? Or it should be at my shoulder height?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Pysiek said:


> I have to be honest. One time I have a bow with exchangeable draw length modules. I tried 28.5" , 29" and 29.5" and did not notice any difference. I was shooting the same all the time. So I have no idea how to pick the right draw length. I have seen people that change draw length from 29" to 29-1/8" and they said it feels much better :mg: I was shocked.


that's not uncommon.

What we do is slightly adjust our stance/posture/form to accomodate the change in draw length....do it the same every time and it's not a huge deal. That is until you start shooting up/down hill or shooting many ends. 

If you really can't tell a difference in 1" Dl, you simply may not shoot enough. Or, just haven't been guided into how to get the bow to fit you. Just need to get with a qualified shooter, coach to assist you.

If you don't have anyone, Alen- AKA Nuts & Bolts is a good source. 

Highly suggested that you have someone you can work with one on one to help you...hands on beats on-line any day of the week. On-line can work well, just takes longer and may miss some finer details (lost in translation kind of think)


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I have been shooting for 3 years now. We have a guy in my local archery club that tunes and sells bows I might ask him to give me some advise


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## Mr. RoC (Aug 6, 2013)

No tape...

Ta Da...


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Nice shooting. I was working on my bow last night and cannot get rid off a high tear. And then what I noticed is that my blade is too wide for my Easton LightSpeed 3D arrows. When the arrows leave the rest blade hits two bottom vanes. I did not have any other blades ( I bought the rest here in classified section) so I swap the AAE blade rest to a QAD HDX rest and it's all good now. I shoot a bullet hole. 
But back to bareshaft tunning. My bareshaft impacts right with nock to the left of the fletched arrow. I add twist to the left yoke (and at the same time remove from right yoke to keep cam timing very close) and it's moving slowly. But I'm afraid I will put too much lean on the top cam. Can I add twist to left yoke and next time move a rest a little to the right? I will prefer not to have a lot of cam lean.


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

I replied in your other thread Pyseik. 

You bow NEEDS a bit of cam lean. Arrow laid along the left of the top cam should cross the string just at or just 1/4-1/2" above the center of the loop. 

You need to go tail right, so take 1/2 twist out of left yoke, shoot, then add 1/2 twist into right, then shoot again. DO this till it gets better or worse. If it does not change much, IT IS YOUR HAND GRIPPING on the bow that needs fine tuning or center shot needs a tiny adjustment.

And shoot at SHOULDER HEIGHT. LEVEL!


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

elkbow69 said:


> You bow NEEDS a bit of cam lean. Arrow laid along the left of the top cam should cross the string just at or just 1/4-1/2" above the center of the loop.
> 
> And shoot at SHOULDER HEIGHT. LEVEL!


I have shot a target that was on the ground :embara: . I will do as you said. Will post results here. But something make me think. Why we have to do bareshaft tunning if the vanes are the ones that fixing the flight of the arrow? First we shot fletched arrow and then we have to do everything so bareshaft hits in the same spot. Why? The fletched arrow already does it


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## Mr. RoC (Aug 6, 2013)

Pysiek said:


> I have shot a target that was on the ground :embara: . I will do as you said. Will post results here. But something make me think. Why we have to do bareshaft tunning if the *vanes are the ones that fixing the flight of the arrow*? First we shot fletched arrow and then we have to do everything so bareshaft hits in the same spot. Why? The fletched arrow already does it


Layman's term... Fletched arrows hides your mistakes... bareshaft exposes them.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Why? A couple reasons.

1. bare shaft vs fletched will tell you if you are at the right spine for your setup. (so few people do this)- they simply say "I want to shoot X spine" or "I bought what the chart said" and call it a day....you'll get better groups shooting the right spine.

2. bare shaft will tell you everything YOU do wrong...as mentioned above.


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## ElMuchoHombre (Aug 17, 2013)

Fury90flier said:


> Why? A couple reasons.
> 
> 1. bare shaft vs fletched will tell you if you are at the right spine for your setup. (so few people do this)- they simply say "I want to shoot X spine" or "I bought what the chart said" and call it a day....you'll get better groups shooting the right spine.
> 
> 2. bare shaft will tell you everything YOU do wrong...as mentioned above.


This, and tuning with a bare shaft gives you optimal arrow flight, so that your fletching has a minimal job. More efficient, less chance for things to go wrong in between the shot breaking and the arrow smacking the target. What flies more accurately and consistently, and all around better, a football thrown in a tight spiral, or one wobbling like a drunken mule? If the fletching only has to spin the shaft, and doesn't have to correct errors in flight, you'll have a better shooting arrow.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Okay understand. Now here is my problem. I shoot 3 fletched arrows at 20 yards. All three so tight that they are touching each other. Next I shoot 3 bare shaft arrow. They impact right with nock to the left. So I added twist to left yoke and remove same mount of twist from right yoke to keep the cams in synch. All together I added 10 twist to left and remove 10 from right. Pretty dangerous cam lean now. Shoot 3 bareshafts and they have not moved even a little. Also pretty bad grouping too. My arrow is Easton lightspeed 3D 400 spine. My bow is set up tp 54 pounds and arrow length is 28.5" from nock groove to the end of carbon shaft.
I think I will leave it as it is. Paper tuning comes up to perfect bullet hole.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

After some thinking I came to conclusion that I torque my bow to the right because... I have to move my rest almost all the way to left and same with sight. How to check it to make sure this is the problem?


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## Mr. RoC (Aug 6, 2013)

Pysiek said:


> After some thinking I came to conclusion that I torque my bow to the right because... I have to move my rest almost all the way to left and same with sight. How to check it to make sure this is the problem?


Make yourself a finger sling and after you make your shot let the bow roll forward. This way you know you're not grabbing the bow and torquing it. They're can be made from ne shoe string. 

Watch a few youtube videos to see what I mean.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Twisting yokes is really the wrong way to go about tuning...twist yokes to get rid of cam lean- not to play with nock direction.

Nock direction- most likely you. Just practice.


Go back and get the cam lean set so that your arrow points at the nocking point...arrow along string side of cam, lay it along the string.

get the arrows parallel- tape one to the riser, other nocked on the rest...or set arrow distance as per MFG spec.

fire your arrows (Forget nock direction- it's not important now). if bare shaft is outside the fletched group---play with draw weight, not yokes...playing with yokes will mask the issue.

Once you get bare shaft hitting with fletched...play with YOU on nock direction (assuming DL is correct)



Finger slings are great, cheap, easy to make. There is one fatal flaw in using one---it's easy to forget to put it on....you get used to it and forget- if you have a proper grip- that bow will come out of your hand.lol It only happens 7/8 times before you start to remember.:frusty:


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I forgot to add that I do not have any problems with holding the bow. While at full draw my bow hand grip is always relaxed.
Since the arrow hits to the right of the fletched group it's mean my draw length is too long? It might be because a lot of times I hit my bow arm with the string


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Ok...

try this to see

get a long rod- say 24" and attach it to the stabilizer hole--- doesn't have to be an actual stab. You just want a reference.

Go shoot...pay attention (just be aware) of what that rod does when you release. Video is better or a coach/mentor that knows what to look for.

If you get side to side movement of your front rod...your hand isn't relaxed maybe follow through issues. 

it's something that was ponted out to me and has really helped with my L/R issues.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

What size of rod is the best? I have a lot of them at work :tongue: Aluminum , steel , wood...


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## Mr. RoC (Aug 6, 2013)

Pysiek said:


> I forgot to add that I do not have any problems with holding the bow. *While at full draw my bow hand grip is always relaxed*.
> Since the arrow hits to the right of the fletched group it's mean my draw length is too long? It might be because a lot of times I hit my bow arm with the string


Yes... but are you gripping the bow *AFTER* you make your shot. Most liking your are cause you don't want to drop the bow.

Anyhow, doesn't hurt to try a finger sling.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Pysiek said:


> What size of rod is the best? I have a lot of them at work :tongue: Aluminum , steel , wood...


Size? Not too small as it will be flimbsy...probably 1/2" ID is fine.---check out the DIY section and look up stabilziers....plenty of cheap solutions for long rods.

of course if you or a friend have a long stab, just use it.


I would use PVC tube- cheap and rigid enough...can actually make a decent stabilizer from one. 2'+ PVC, a couple caps- 5/16-24 bolt...you're done.


I'm going back and doing some more training on this...I keep getting some left swing on my shot...guess where the arrows go. Last night I got irritated, took off the stab---I'll reward myself with the stab whe "I" can get the bow to roll forward, not L/R...for me- grip, always grip. 

I'm beginning to think I'd just be better off aiming to the right...it works and is less frustrating- lol


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