# Handicapping a league?



## ecm

For last year's league at our shop, we divided shooters into classes based upon average scores, then divided the teams equally. For the most part, it worked great, except for a select few egomaniacs that got "stuck"  with lower scoring shooters. 

Please give me some ideas about handicapping a league fairly.


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## archer_nm

*NFAA Professional Archers Forum > Handicapping a league?*

Call the NFAA @ 1-800-811-2331 and inform them that you would like to shoot a NFAA league and they wil send you all kinds of things including a League book that will show you how to do everything including handicapping and you will also get some Pins for the league champs. This will be open for NFAA members and also those that are not.


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## ecm

Thanks for that info, Bob.


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## field14

ecm said:


> For last year's league at our shop, we divided shooters into classes based upon average scores, then divided the teams equally. For the most part, it worked great, except for a select few egomaniacs that got "stuck"  with lower scoring shooters.
> 
> Please give me some ideas about handicapping a league fairly.


Tell ya what, let the egomaniacs go right ahead and be all on the same team...chances are they WILL NOT WIN THE LEAGUE!

Since they will all be "scratch shooters" the best they can do is 300....and that isn't good enough for beating, in a league environment, the up and coming shooters! Of course you must allow scores to go over 300 points with handicap...otherwise the egomaniacs can NEVER lose...the worst they would do is tie!
Ties are split 1/2 game per team...cuz if you break ties with x-count; again you have the egomaniacs NEVER losing on that tie-breaking system.

Handicaps are on full points, too...since you cannot shoot a "tenth" of an arrow...how can you justify a handicap system that uses "tenths of a point"?

The egomaniacs, if allowed to all shoot on the same team might place high...but it is unlikely that they will run away with much of anything...and will soon realize that in a handicapped league...you need a team member out there to "pick up the slack" when one of the egomaniacs has a "hiccup" and misses one or two...hahahahaha.

I also base the handicap system on the best two scores out of the last three actually shot..this stops people from building up a handicap in advance...The way this works is that if you shoot like crap one week, your handicap won't change for the next one. However, if you shoot a high score this week, then next week, your handicap falls immediately! best two out of the last three actually shot works well...not perfect, but WAY BETTER than the best three out of 5, or heaven forbid, the best 3 out of 7.

field14


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## ecm

What I need to know is a guideline to set handicaps by, or how to determine handicaps.


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## field14

ecm said:


> What I need to know is a guideline to set handicaps by, or how to determine handicaps.


We use the 80% rule. That is, your handicap is determined by taking the best two of the last three scores actually shot. Then, you average those scores and subtract them from 300. Take 80% of that number, round up or down to the nearest WHOLE number and that is the total handicap for the entire round of 300.

Then, divide that number by 3 to determine the handicap for each of the games.

Thus: best two of last three is: 292 298. Average = 295. 300-295 = 5, times .80 gives a total round handicap of 4.0 (NEVER use 1/10th of points, you can't shoot 1/10th of an arrow, so it is pointless to use tenths of points in the handicap).

4 Divided by 3 = 1.333...which again is in a decimal. So, what I"ve always done is to use the middle game as the "odd-ball" part of an odd numbered handicap.
So in this case:
Handicap game #1 = 1
Handicap game #2 = 2
Handicap game #3 = 1
For a total ROUND handicap of 4.

If the handicap had worked out to 5, then it would have been:
Handicap game #1 = 2
Handicap game #2 = 1
Handicap game #2 = 2
The "rule" of the odd handicap in the middle game holds.

It has worked for me for over 35 years, and I"ve never had anyone complain about this.

The best two out of the last three actually shot keeps people on their toes and it is hard for them to press or to "let up" and gain an unfair advantage.

AND>>>in numerous leagues, we've had a shooter or two that would get hot and shoot a 330 score one week...but of course, the next week, their handicap dropped like a rock and they couldn't sustain it...

In one league in particular that was 25 weeks long...the shooter that won the TOTAL HIGH ACCUMULATIVE SCORE WITH HANDICAP...won that with a total score of: 7517...or 17 points over perfect...and he had a score of over 330 during that period. The winner of the high accumulative score SCRATCH shot 7499. This is indicative of a handicap system that is fair and equitable.

And, in addition to this, NOBODY knew for sure who was going to win First, Second, or Third place until the conclusion of the LAST WEEK of scoring....Things were that close! Everyone had to shoot their game and no letup or "sandbagging". This is exciting and fun when there are no "runaways" that win everything easily.

field14:darkbeer::teeth::shade:


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## redneckarcher29

Does anyone have this in an excel file? or have an easy system for this?


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## cenochs

we use 80 % here is the formula for 4 weeks
week 1 300 -week 1 score*.80 
week 2 600-(week 1 score + week 2 score) /2 *.80
week 3 900-(week 1 score + week 2 score + week 3 score)/3 *.80
week 4 1200-(week 1 score +week 2 score + week 3 score + week 4 score)/ 4 *.80


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## cenochs

and in our league you can only get a max total of 300 points perfect so If one week you shoot great and your score and handicap equal 303 you only get 300 points.


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## field14

cenochs said:


> and in our league you can only get a max total of 300 points perfect so If one week you shoot great and your score and handicap equal 303 you only get 300 points.


Again, the only flaw in the above as usual...the 300 shooter (scratch) can NEVER LOSE...and if you break ties with X-count, once again the 300 scratch shooter will NEVER LOSE on the tie-break.

THis is extremely discouraging for the newbies and those in the middle....when they do shoot great one week...the won't WIN...cuz you cut them off at the knees and stop it at 300...and even if they "tie" with another team....the team with the more experienced shooters will WIN on the 300 tie break cuz of the X-counts...

If you allow over 300, then the shooters shooting 300 scratch had better not MISS...and the people with the handicap...MUST improve by 21% to go over anyways.

I've been at it for 40 years...and the biggest thing in losing shooters and having them get dejected is when you stop it at 300 max. Doesn't take 'em long to realize that against those that shoot 300 scratch...they can NEVER WIN, and won't win in a "tie-break" either....

As I said above. that over 300 score will last ONCE...the following week, their handicap drops like a rock...and if they don't do it again...they will LOSE the following two weeks....because of the best two out of the last three being the ONLY scores that count.

Going cumulative on score as 300, 600, 900, 1200 and then .80 sounds great, but I guarantee you that people so inclined WILL "adjust" their scores accordingly to set it up so that when shooting against the first place team or the hot dogs...they have the highest handicap possible!

The only thing doing it that way does, IMHO...simply MY opinion....is make it EASY on the secretary and EASY to plug into Excel or whatever....it is NOT easy on the shooters in the league that are giving it their best shot only to be cut off by sandbaggers...and believe me...they ARE out there in droves, these days. It is all about winning at any cost to these people...regardless of whether or not it destroys this league or future leagues.

Blast away folks, but after 40 years of seeing ranges fail due to lack of league participation and "egomaniacs" and top shooters crying the blues....while the mid-range and newbies suffer the results, it beefs me to no end to allow the "Few" to dictate everything so it is set that the "Few" can NEVER LOSE.....

Leagues are NOT about the win/loss record...they are for the promotion and the future of the facility, FUN, and giving the newbies a chance at competing in a FAIR and EQUITABLE environment with the better shooters.

field14


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## I BOW 2

I came up with a much better solution for our leagues. To start with we shoot two weeks for average then pair the highest average with the lowest average and move progressivly toward the middle if there are shooters left over we do it again for either two or three man teams. Then we use a 100% handicap up till a score of 297. Over 297 is scratch. But the kicker is that you cannot have more than a total handicap for each game of 102 points. This helps keep the league real tight until the very end of the league. Now we rarely ever have "discouraged shooters dropping out of the league cause they are so far out of contention. if the top shooters get an up and coming shooter then they can do very well in the league but everyone (most) shooters are happy till the end. Ken


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## ISAA_Archer

We use the League manager software from Martin Archery 
works good for us.


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## field14

ISAA_Archer said:


> We use the League manager software from Martin Archery
> works good for us.


That is a great program. I just wish they had options for using the best two out of the last three. IF that option is there...I have yet to figure it out how to do it!

The best 3 out of whatever...just isn't enough to squelch the sandbagging; just keeps it easy for the secretary; but unfair to those really doing their best.

field14


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## figtide

I started calculating differentials the same way you do them in golf. The only difference is there is no modifier for course slope and rating.


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## Hoyt4Site

same


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## ArcheryNut2006

I use 80% handicap of the last three weeks/scores shot with a max handicap score of 305. If you have a shooter that starts our shooting 250's and gradually increases to 
290's, he is going to win the league. I had 300 shooters thinking that they could never win and not happy, so I started listing the handicap standings and also the scratch standings each week. That gave all levels of shooters something to set goals towards.
We do not shoot teams, it is all individual. 

This year we are shooting a 10 week league and the first 4 weeks we shot Vegas targets and now we are changing to NFAA. I am not sure how that is going to work, but I will see.


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## field14

ArcheryNut2006 said:


> I use 80% handicap of the last three weeks/scores shot with a max handicap score of 305. If you have a shooter that starts our shooting 250's and gradually increases to
> 290's, he is going to win the league. I had 300 shooters thinking that they could never win and not happy, so I started listing the handicap standings and also the scratch standings each week. That gave all levels of shooters something to set goals towards.
> We do not shoot teams, it is all individual.
> 
> This year we are shooting a 10 week league and the first 4 weeks we shot Vegas targets and now we are changing to NFAA. I am not sure how that is going to work, but I will see.


Yep, it is typical of that level of shooter that doesn't understand the PURPOSE behing having leagues in the first place. I'll just bet that they didn't see the OTHER SIDE of the coin...that if you cap the score with handicap at 300...they can NEVER LOSE! Or if you 'break ties' with X-count instead of splitting the game..THEY NEVER LOSE.

I"ve run extended leagues of over 20 weeks where the total cumulative score with handicap has been LESS than 20 total points over PERFECT...and the cumulative scratch was only one point less than perfect.....I don't wanna hear this NEVER WIN situation from the top end shooters.

SO what if they start at 250 and improve and win the league? Are we trying to STOP THEM from winning? Or are we trying to set it up again so the 300 shooter NEVER LOSES?

What is the point in having a league if you cut off the up and coming shooters from WINNING and you have it so the 300 shooters NEVER LOSE?

Let it ride on total score with handicap; convert to the best two scores out of the last three shot...and you won't have someone(and definitely NOT the same individual!!) shooting 305+ or 325+ scores week in and week out....Shoot a high score THIS week, and IMMEDIATELY next week, your handicap drops like a rock. Shoot crappy? TOUGH...your handicap won't change until you have pretty much shot THREE crappy scores in a row....best two out of last three, thus a low score will NOT change your hanidcap for the week immediately following the crap score.

TEAMS are FUN....if the team chooses their members wisely....and doesn't focus on ALL NEW shooters, or all shooters shooting at the 300 scratch level. We let our team members sign up together...that way they shoot with who they want to...and take their chances. They are totally told ahead of time how the handicap works and how late scores work, etc. NEVER had a gripe in nearly 35 years of doing my leagues best two out of last three. However before that..>egads....

It may not be the best way, nor is it the ONLY way...but after all these years of successful league management; I"m not for changing much of anything, other than the target face.

One thing to try that worked really cool....We shot Vegas one week, NFAA Blue face, then the 20 yard field face...and back to Vegas, NFAA, and NFAA field spot...real scoring, 300 points max scratch. ALL from 20 yards. Then, after one rotation of the teams, we had the teams that wanted to continue another "rotation" sign up for.....a 25 yard Field Face/NFAA 5-spot league of one rotation all done at 25 yards to get them ready for outdoors. What a hoot this is! The "hot dogs" soon find out just how sloppy their "outdoor form" has become over the winter! It gives them a chance to get a super accurate 25 yard site setting and get their form in order before going outdoors...everyone liked that pretty well.

We did it last spring, and everyone enjoyed shooting the BLUE FACE (we didn't do field face last year) at 25 yards...even those with FAT SHAFTS..hahaha.

field14
field14


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## Dave V

Our indoor league is finishing up this week. We used 80% and didn't cap the scores. 

Although they do lose a game or two, the runaway winner of the league with a whopping lead of 7 games is... the team with the two 300 shooters. They're so far ahead that they both can stay home this week and they'd still win. :thumbs_up ... but they'll be there anyway because they love to shoot, and that's the real purpose anyway, right?

With no handicap for these two shooters, consistent shooting week after week won out over the lower scores+handicap who vary all over the board.

Lower shooters (like me  ) typically don't maintain consistent scores above their average, and even if they do as the average goes up the handicap goes down.


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## field14

As I think I posted earlier, over the past many, many years, I've not seen a single "runaway" victory on any team! Normally, it is into the last week, or at worst the second to last week before the 1st 3 places are really decided. NO TEAM "runs away with it." by using the best two out of last three scores actually shot; and a huge penalty for a "blind score" and by keeping the makeups minimized and holding to the deadline without variations. 

We normally will run 2 "conferences" and then the Shootoffs...a one round day where first place in Conference A shoots against first place in Conference "B", 2nd against 2nd, etc. This is of course with handicap. There is no "runaway" here either...normally it goes to the last game and many times has actually gone down to the last end. Of course if a team or team member doesn't show up, then that "spot" is forfeit to the next team down...so that 3rd in A, if 2nd in A doesn't show, could shoot against 2nd in B.

The pressure and fun is on during the shoot off. 1st against first shoot for 1st and 2nd OVERALL, 2nd against 2nd is for 3rd & 4th overall. One full round, with handicap. What a hoot to enjoy this competition and the fun of it all.

Just don't have runaways, and cannot be "sure" that an up and coming team will automatically win, nor will a "scratch team" automatically win either!

If teams are an odd number, it is evened out with a GHOST TEAM....When a team shoots against the GHOST...they are shooting against themselves...from the previous week with handicap...Thus, if they don't IMPROVE, they beat themselves. They gotta shoot better than they did last week or lose. It is amazing how many teams arise to the challenge and do shoot better (with handicap) than they did the prior week..and also, they falter and shoot worse...and kick their own butts. It stops a team from "going through the motions" and forces them to shoot and care. They have the added challenge of either improving or falling victim to themselves!

field14

field14


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## gjstudt

*I like it*

Field 14, I like your process.

I am a every time 300 shooter and I like to have a challenge. I have yet to win an indoor 300 league but that is just because of bad luck. Another reason is it seems some of shooters with handicap always bring their A game when they shoot against me. Having the average of the last 3 would help. I like the fact that they can have over a 300 then you get them with the average of the last 3 scores.

I'm about to start an outdoor 3D league. 15 targets IBO scoring. So, if you have all 10's the best score would be 150. If you have all 11's (won't happen) you would have a 165.

Here is my question: How should I set up the handicap? Keep in mind the course will change in difficultly from week to week.

Your ideas would be great to hear.

I see you don't like league manager. Is the only reason the fact you can't tell it to average the last 3 scores?

How do you set up no shows?

Do the no shows have to pay the league fees anyway? No shows wouldn't pay range fees though right?

I like the ghost theory for the odd number teams. Again does league manager have that ability?

Please let me know thanks


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## field14

gjstudt said:


> Field 14, I like your process.
> 
> I am a every time 300 shooter and I like to have a challenge. I have yet to win an indoor 300 league but that is just because of bad luck. Another reason is it seems some of shooters with handicap always bring their A game when they shoot against me. Having the average of the last 3 would help. I like the fact that they can have over a 300 then you get them with the average of the last 3 scores.
> 
> I'm about to start an outdoor 3D league. 15 targets IBO scoring. So, if you have all 10's the best score would be 150. If you have all 11's (won't happen) you would have a 165.
> 
> Here is my question: How should I set up the handicap? Keep in mind the course will change in difficultly from week to week.
> 
> Your ideas would be great to hear.
> 
> I see you don't like league manager. Is the only reason the fact you can't tell it to average the last 3 scores?
> 
> How do you set up no shows?
> 
> Do the no shows have to pay the league fees anyway? No shows wouldn't pay range fees though right?
> 
> I like the ghost theory for the odd number teams. Again does league manager have that ability?
> 
> Please let me know thanks


Actually, to reduce "manipulations" the handicap is based upon the BEST TWO of the last three scores actually shot. That way, if a person gets "hot" one week, their handicap will drop like a rock the next, but if they scrub one...then their handicap won't change one bit for the next week...Keeps everyone on their toes, haha. I found that averaging even three scores made too much room for constant manipulation...but taking the BEST TWO slows it down a ton.

Matters not about the difficulty of the course...I'd still hold to the best two out of the last three shot for their handicap. I've done it when we rotated target types for "spot" leagues and it still works just fine and keeps it understandable and consistent. Start factoring in this and that, and it gets unfair and complicated and too subjective, IMHO.

Base your handicap on the 150 score; at least that is what I would do. Using the best two shot out of the last three will take care of those 11's, ahahaha. It all settles out in the wash.

Absentee scores are EXPENSIVE to the team. If a person doesn't shoot their score this is what happens:
1. The score has to be paid for regardless. Our league fee includes the range fee. Since that space is really "rented" for the league shooters, then it is only right that the shop gets that fee. In addition, why should one team have to pay the fees for all four shooters when they show, and then a team that has an absentee get by with paying LESS? Isn't right, so the shooter (or team) pays regardless of whether that score is shot or not. Keeps the shop knowing how much they will have coming in; and keeps it fair for all teams cost-wise. 4 team members = 4 fees, no give and take.

2. The "blind score" is the shooter's average of the best two out of the last three scores shot, minus 15 points, and then LOSS OF HANDICAP...so that blind score is 15 points lower AND SCRATCH to boot. So, if a shooter's average of the best two out of the last three is 296, he then gets a SCRATCH SCORE of 281 WITHOUT ANY HANDICAP added in at all for him/her. Then, take the 281 and divided it by 3, or his "game" scores are: 94, 93, 94 SCRATCH. I always put the odd one in the middle. Nearly always, his team is going to lose all four games that go around, AND this shooter's handicap is NOT CHANGING.

I like league manager for the scheduling part of it...that is easy to get done. That is what I use it for...to generate the shooting schedule. However, you are right in that I can't tell it to use the best TWO out of the last THREE shot...and that is the part I wish they'd make a change on. Other than that, it is just fine.


The shooters really LIKE shooting against their past week's score WITH handicap. They know that they have to beat last week's score...or they shoot themselves in the foot. Many, many times, the team shooting the GHOST loses 2-4 games! Of course, I will tease them about it, and they get a chuckle that they couldn't even beat themselves all four games, hahaha. Giving byes doesn't accomplish anything and offers no challenge; this gives 'em a heckuva challenge and they know that they still have to shoot to win and not goof off.

League manager has the capability to set up the ghost team...but you cannot "maniuplate" that handicap each week like it has to be done so that the ghost's handicap matches the team it is shooting against's past week's handicap...so I guess the answer is...only halfway....handicap would be a problem, but you could manipulate it by a cheat factor manually, I think.

Hope this helps,
field14


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## Dave V

So, are there any Excel gurus out there who would know how to figure a "Best 2 out of 3" formula? I'm drawing a blank.


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## field14

Dave V said:


> So, are there any Excel gurus out there who would know how to figure a "Best 2 out of 3" formula? I'm drawing a blank.


Here is a sample formula I use in the HDCP column in my Excel spreadsheet. Make it work in one column and then fill the range down the column, then copy/paste the formula over where it belongs for the next week's handicap calculation..... By going =ABS, that gives me an absolute number and I don't have to deal with risk of + or - numbers, hahaha. D5, F5 in this case ARE the cell addresses of the BEST TWO of the Last three scratch scores actually shot. By nesting some if/then statements, I can get it to work two out of three times...but it messes up too often for me to trust it...I need ONE MORE iteration that I've not been able to figure out...but know it can be done.

=ABS((AVERAGE(D5,F5)-300)*0.8) 

I simply have the cell set to zero decimal places, since we can't shoot 0.1 arrow....I do NOT EVER "round" to tenths of points, so I don't want to see that number on the scores printout or handicap result. This gives me the TOTAL HANDICAP for the FULL ROUND. If you are using a 150 score, it is easy to change the -300 to, -150, or if a 450 score, change the 300 to 450 and the thing will calculate just fine. If you want to give 'em on 75% handicap, then change the *0.8 to *0.75

I only have to change the "D5,F5" part of the formula based upon selecting the cells that have the best two out of the last three scores in them. MOST of the time....but not always, the "main formula" works anyways, so I go by exception...and don't have to do every single member of the leauge. Keeps me in touch and not using blind faith in the "program" as being fool-proof.


field14 (Tom D.)


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## rogerrabt

use the formula to add the range of the last three scores... for this example lets say the shooter's score is in cell B3... then subtract the min score from that range using the "MIN" function... also in my spreadsheets I have a sheet desginated for each week in the same workbook, so that is why my example formula looks the way it does..

=(('WEEK1'!B3+'WEEK2'!B3+'WEEK3'!B3)-MIN('WEEK1'!B3,'WEEK2'!B3,'WEEK3'!B3))/2
That will get the average of the two best scores for weeks 1 to 3 minus the worst score

=(300-((('WEEK1'!B3+'WEEK2'!B3+'WEEK3'!B3)-MIN('WEEK1'!B3,'WEEK2'!B3,'WEEK3'!B3))/2))*0.8
That will get you a 80% handicap in a 300 league

WEEK1, WEEK2, WEEK3 are the names of the sheets, B3 is the cell that the shooters score is located on each sheet, AVG means average, and MIN is the minimum score of that range

I really don't know how else to explain so I hope this helps


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## Dave V

That helps a LOT! I didn't know about the "min" function.


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