# 25" barebow riser that does not kick back at archer's face



## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I have 2 different BB risers, Bernardini Nilo and Best Zenit BB. Both when setup corretly with internal weights and tiller adjusted they jump straight forward. This is when they are setup for NFAA . I will say I have the heavy weights in all 4 places in the Nilo and it reacts better than the BEst, but only because of more wieght installed. I prefer the Best Zenit when I can have the extra weight like USA Archery allows, an am going to have heavier internal weights mde for this riser.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Spig 650 club.

Sky TR-7

Both have bottom weights allowed in the NFAA traditional class.

Both will set level after release


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Art can you post pictures of the TR-7 and the weight system... very interested in its design.


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## ArcCaster (Oct 29, 2003)

when I compare the TR7 weight location with that of the club or the Nilo or the Zenit, it looks like the TR7 positions it the farthest from the grip. Seems like you would get more benefit from the same amount of weight if you do that, doesn't it?


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## kakend (Oct 30, 2007)

ArcCaster,
Dont over look the Spigarelli Explorer II with barebow weights, it comes with a rest and a clicker from alt!

Have a great day,
Kasey


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## MAT (May 27, 2003)

What makes these a barebow riser? Actually what is the definition of barebow?


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

ArtV said:


> Spig 650 club.
> 
> Sky TR-7
> 
> ...


Agree about the Spig 650 Club and will add that it does this even without the added bottom weights.


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## ArcCaster (Oct 29, 2003)

MAT said:


> What makes these a barebow riser? Actually what is the definition of barebow?


I am using the word 'barebow' loosely to mean a riser without any stabilizers. 'Normal' archers put long weighted rods on their bows sticking out at various angles to reduce movement before, during, and after the shot. Upon release, the top of the bow typically tips forward, away from the archer.

Barebow archers must compete without any of these long rods. If they were shooting a 'normal' bow without any stabilizers, upon release, the bow tips back toward the archer, coming close to hitting the archer right between the eyes. And, of course, movement before, during, and after the shot is greater without the stabilizers.

To compensate, barebow risers are generally heavier, and have the capability to add weight to the lower half of the riser. Increased weight helps them to move less -- weight in the lower half of the riser influences what happens after the release.


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

ArcCaster, stabilizers are allowed in NFAA barebow. I think it usually means a bow without sights of any kind, but FITA barebows have to be able to pass through a 12.2 cm ring.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

Arrowwood said:


> ArcCaster, stabilizers are allowed in NFAA barebow. I think it usually means a bow without sights of any kind, but FITA barebows have to be able to pass through a 12.2 cm ring.


The ring rule only applies to fita field.


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

I didn't realize fita/WA recognized barebow for anything but field... 3D maybe?

Having a hard time finding rules about this...


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## ArcCaster (Oct 29, 2003)

Arrowwood said:


> ArcCaster, stabilizers are allowed in NFAA barebow.


Yes. I shoot NFAA traditional and NAA barebow. As you can imagine, if I shoot the same equipment for both (which I do), then I have to follow the more restrictive rules: NFAA traditional.


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

Ok, I get it now, sorry, I misinterpreted your first post. Same boat here with one state org.'s rules versus others' pertaining to rests.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

Arrowwood said:


> stabilizers are allowed in NFAA barebow.


As are compounds.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Where at you guys getting the info for the TR-7 barebow? I haven't even shot one in the barebow configuration yet! ha, ha. As soon as I do, I'll be sure to post the results, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

The barebow offerings from any of the Italian companies are superb, and will do what you are wanting. The most affordable these days is the Spigarelli Explorer, with the added barebow weights, but there are plenty to choose from.

John


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## ArcCaster (Oct 29, 2003)

Hi John,

I am comparing the pictures on http://skyarchery.com/ to those on altservices.com. The Italian barebow risers place the weights below the grip but fairly close to the middle of the riser, whereas the TR7 places them almost at the very bottom. My thought is that the same weight placed close to the grip will give different results than it will if placed at the very bottom of the riser.

Rob


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yes, that's the idea alright. I'm hoping the TR-7 will be just as you describe once we have it set up for barebow. But let's not get ahead of ourselves! LOL!


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## TomG (Dec 4, 2002)

A very popular riser in Europe is the Green Horn sirius. 

http://www.greenhornarchery.be/index.php/en/sirius


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## Jeb-D. (Sep 21, 2011)

I've always been curious about the weighted barebow risers. Adding weights to the bottom of the riser keeps the bow vertical on flat ground, but wouldn't it cause the top limb to swing towards you on downhill shots and swing away from you on uphill shots? Is this type of weighting still considered advantageous for field and 3D?

I'd think it would be more advantageous to weight the center stab bushing (so the bow always wants to roll forward) or weight the upper+lower stab bushings (so the bow always wants to fall strait down with no rotation).

Just speaking theoretical here. I don't have any experience with these types of risers.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

In the pictures, Eric Esposito, not yet 14, winner of Italian indoor Barebow Champs last weekend, 546 points in qualification (60 arrows at 18 mt) and full domination of the head to head matches. 
















Riser is the Best Zenit Bare Bow version...


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

Stolid Bull riser. Does not move when shot!

http://www.stolid-bull.com/


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## Zarrow (Sep 8, 2010)

TomG said:


> A very popular riser in Europe is the Green Horn sirius.
> 
> http://www.greenhornarchery.be/index.php/en/sirius


Takes a while to get one. Unless you are in Belgium


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

It may take a while but they're worth it!
Awesome piece of machining.


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## c-lo (Jan 8, 2012)

I recently purchased a Spigarelli Barebow, I am shooting it without the weights to get used to the heavier riser. In time I will add more weight. Without weight it kicks a minimal amount. I've found it to be stable and a sweet shooter. 

I am frankly thrilled with it.










Everyone seems to agree that these bows with weight are trad legal in the NFAA, I mentioned this locally and did not find agreement. Does anyone know where to find an official ruling on this?


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

c-lo said:


> Everyone seems to agree that these bows with weight are trad legal in the NFAA, I mentioned this locally and did not find agreement. Does anyone know where to find an official ruling on this?


There is none. It is open to interpretation and won't likely be written soon.


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## Humdinger (Apr 4, 2012)

i had a real close look at the MK10 this weekend.. I must say I was very impressed! There are three locations to add weights and the design of the riser and limb pockets were very nice. Also the finish was sexy, badging sexy, and uses t7 aluminum/Forged. So far the Mk10 might be my new toy for this season.. Im just waiting to see a TR-7 in person before i make the plunge.

Everyone in the barebow world tells me i need to shoot a Bern. because its the best... However there are some new ones out there that look appealing that have more support in the USA, which after shooting Kaya limbs i find is most important. Tired of waiting weaks for a new item when one fails... P.S. Mk Korea now has a USA Distributer in SAnta Ana Ca. as of January this year. 

So because of support issues and what ive seen to date it comes down to 2 for me MK10 (Mk Korea) or Tr-7 (Sky).


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

c-lo said:


> I recently purchased a Spigarelli Barebow, I am shooting it without the weights to get used to the heavier riser. In time I will add more weight. Without weight it kicks a minimal amount. I've found it to be stable and a sweet shooter.
> 
> I am frankly thrilled with it.
> 
> ...


There is no rule against internal weights. It cannot extend out the front of the bow. Heck some guys put a quiver (steel attaching brackets) that mounts to the front stab holes, and fill that quiver with arrows. Its nothing more than a stab. That is legal in the NFAA Trad..... Heck fill the hood of the quiver with lead tape.... I don't use one but several top NFAA trad shooters do.....


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

NFAA trad says no stabilizer or counter balance 


Yet?


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

rsarns said:


> There is no rule against internal weights. It cannot extend out the front of the bow. Heck some guys put a quiver (steel attaching brackets) that mounts to the front stab holes, and fill that quiver with arrows. Its nothing more than a stab. That is legal in the NFAA Trad..... Heck fill the hood of the quiver with lead tape.... I don't use one but several top NFAA trad shooters do.....


But I like my quiver:wink:


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

rsarns said:


> Art can you post pictures of the TR-7 and the weight system... very interested in its design.


Here's the web site. www.skyarchery.com

Click on the TR-7


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

2413gary said:


> But I like my quiver:wink:


I'd like it better if it was on my bow....


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

2413gary said:


> NFAA trad says no stabilizer or counter balance
> 
> 
> Yet?


That's correct, but if the riser has built in counter weights that are an integral part of the riser it is legal. See a Bernardini Nilo as an example. Or Spig 650 club. What you can't have it something sticking out in front of the riser or sticking out the sides of the riser.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

ArtV said:


> Here's the web site. www.skyarchery.com
> 
> Click on the TR-7


Art... thanks! Wonder what weights will be available for it? Good looking riser!


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

c-lo said:


> I recently purchased a Spigarelli Barebow, I am shooting it without the weights to get used to the heavier riser. In time I will add more weight. Without weight it kicks a minimal amount. I've found it to be stable and a sweet shooter.
> 
> I am frankly thrilled with it.
> 
> ...


Spigs are legal. You will likely see several if you go to the indoor nationals or sectionals.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Arrowwood said:


> ArcCaster, stabilizers are allowed in NFAA barebow. I think it usually means a bow without sights of any kind, but FITA barebows have to be able to pass through a 12.2 cm ring.


That's incorrect...You can not use a stabilizer.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Where at you guys getting the info for the TR-7 barebow? I haven't even shot one in the barebow configuration yet! ha, ha. As soon as I do, I'll be sure to post the results, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
> 
> The barebow offerings from any of the Italian companies are superb, and will do what you are wanting. The most affordable these days is the Spigarelli Explorer, with the added barebow weights, but there are plenty to choose from.
> 
> John


John, I believe you are the one who posted that Sky's TR-7 had a barebow counter weight feature.


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

> That's incorrect...You can not use a stabilizer.


"The use of stabilizers shall be permitted. The rear stabilizer shall not touch any part of the body."

http://www.nfaa-archery.org/field/styles.cfm#Barebow


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Arrowwood said:


> "The use of stabilizers shall be permitted. The rear stabilizer shall not touch any part of the body."
> 
> http://www.nfaa-archery.org/field/styles.cfm#Barebow


It also allows compounds....


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

So?


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Arrowwood said:


> So?


So you are better off to shoot in the Trad class. However in Vegas we all shoot together anyway (BB).


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

I do shoot nfaa trad, but our state non nfaa org is off the shelf only, so I shoot psaa "barebow" for indoor leagues...Anybody using stabilizers in BB in Vegas? The rules are going to drive me batty some day.

If I had known the TR-7 was coming out I might have held off buying the Zenit, but I really love it


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Yes, plenty of long stabs.... LOL I also have the Zenit BB riser and love it. I will be shooting my Hoyt Vantage LTD in Vegas tho. I have shot my Nilo and Zenit in the BB and BH classes before.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

They don't have a trad class in Vegas do they? The BB bow class is for compound and if a recurve shooter wants to enter they have to shoot with the compounds....correct? I don't believe there is a traditional or recurve barebow class.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Arrowwood said:


> "The use of stabilizers shall be permitted. The rear stabilizer shall not touch any part of the body."
> 
> http://www.nfaa-archery.org/field/styles.cfm#Barebow


I think the confusion comes from...BareBow. Barebow in the NFAA is the compound class...which does allow stabilizers, but the recurve or Trad class does not. If you want to use a stabilizer on a recurve you have to shoot with the compounds.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I sure wish NFAA would adopt the same barebow rules as the rest of the world. Not sure if it will ever happen, but one can hope, right?


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> I sure wish NFAA would adopt the same barebow rules as the rest of the world. Not sure if it will ever happen, but one can hope, right?


A lot of us wish that. Maybe its time to make a proposal to the NFA thru our State directors. I hav talked to mine about this. If we can get the backing necessary then maybe we can get it presented at next years annual meeting and voted on.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

ArtV said:


> They don't have a trad class in Vegas do they? The BB bow class is for compound and if a recurve shooter wants to enter they have to shoot with the compounds....correct? I don't believe there is a traditional or recurve barebow class.


Nope... we all soot together in BB class


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Fita (now World Archery) has kept this so simple for so long now... Add whatever weights to the riser you want, so long as it can fit through a 12.2cm ring. 

Oh yea, and shoot it however you want, because after all, this is a test of accuracy, not whether you're "trad" enough... LOL!

John


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

For all you who want NFAA trad to be the same as Fita BB or IFAA BH Recurve. I wrote a petition to NFAA to allow a 12" or shorter staibilizer in the Trad Recurve division. this is being voted on this week at the NFAA meeting. call your state director and tell them how to vote. Then when you want to change from NFAA to Fita or IFAA all it will amount to is the length of your staibilizer. this is in my opinion a start to get all of the organizations as close as possible for trad recurve. 
Gary


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Gary I did not see your proposal on he agenda, but I will call Matt and tell him my vote anyway.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Gary I think we are going to be happy...... :wink: just got a text from my state rep....


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

What about the silly IMO rules on aiming? If the proposal is only the equipment portion, while a move in the right direction it is only a step. 

I agree with John. Match world archery and be done with it.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

SBills said:


> What about the silly IMO rules on aiming? If the proposal is only the equipment portion, while a move in the right direction it is only a step.
> 
> I agree with John. Match world archery and be done with it.


You don't eat an elephant in one bite


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Just heard NFAA will allow a 12" stabilizer for Trad Recurve this rule will go into effect June 2013

Ren thanks for the vote
Gary


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

2413gary said:


> Just heard NFAA will allow a 12" stabilizer for Trad Recurve this rule will go into effect June 2013


I think that allowing stringwalking would be a more radical change than allowing a 12" stab.


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## ArcCaster (Oct 29, 2003)

Arcus said:


> I think that allowing stringwalking would be a more radical change than allowing a 12" stab.


Agreed. I think there should be some style of unsighted archery. If stringwalking were allowed in the traditional class, every class would become 'sighted', and there would be no place for those of us who like to use a little more intuition in aiming.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

ArcCaster said:


> Agreed. I think there should be some style of unsighted archery. If stringwalking were allowed in the traditional class, every class would become 'sighted', and there would be no place for those of us who like to use a little more intuition in aiming.


How is that anymore sighted than a good gap system? I use the tip of the arrow and for indoor I tune my setup to be perfectly point on. In my humble opionion SW is not "sighted", no more than an accurate gapping system (california gap). It would align the NFAA with USA and WA.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

2413gary said:


> Just heard NFAA will allow a 12" stabilizer for Trad Recurve this rule will go into effect June 2013
> 
> Ren thanks for the vote
> Gary


Gary, thanks for being proactive and writing up the proposal!


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## ArcCaster (Oct 29, 2003)

rsarns said:


> How is that anymore sighted than a good gap system? I use the tip of the arrow and for indoor I tune my setup to be perfectly point on. In my humble opionion SW is not "sighted", no more than an accurate gapping system (california gap). It would align the NFAA with USA and WA.


When you use a sight, you align or overlay a piece of your equipment with your target. Whether you are using a ring or a pin or an arrow tip, if you are aligning it with your target, you are using a sight.

Gapping is estimating. You are lining up something in your imagination with what you want to hit. Trajectory shooting is imagination and estimating -- you imagine the flight of the arrow and estimate the angle required to hit the target and give it a try.

There is more room for error when you imagine or estimate than when you align. The two systems are two completely different games.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> I sure wish NFAA would adopt the same barebow rules as the rest of the world. Not sure if it will ever happen, but one can hope, right?


Amen to that. I'd love it if they had a Recurve Barebow class like the IFAA.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

c-lo said:


> I recently purchased a Spigarelli Barebow, I am shooting it without the weights to get used to the heavier riser. In time I will add more weight. Without weight it kicks a minimal amount. I've found it to be stable and a sweet shooter.
> 
> I am frankly thrilled with it.
> 
> ...


I shoot the same riser with a Beiter plunger, ZT rest, one counter weight, and either an 11-ounce B-Stinger or long rod (depending on what I'm shooting). I like it a lot thus far. The grip could be a little nicer though.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

ArcCaster said:


> Yes. I shoot NFAA traditional and NAA barebow. As you can imagine, if I shoot the same equipment for both (which I do), then I have to follow the more restrictive rules: NFAA traditional.


Not any more after June 1st


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## c-lo (Jan 8, 2012)

J. Wesbrock said:


> I shoot the same riser with a Beiter plunger, ZT rest, one counter weight, and either an 11-ounce B-Stinger or long rod (depending on what I'm shooting). I like it a lot thus far. The grip could be a little nicer though.



ZT rest and Spigarelli plunger. I emailed Paul Jager before buying the bow and he said he could do a grip for a Spig. Are you using the weight on the bottom hole?


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Yes, I have the weight on the bottom hole.


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