# AA palm up and down cuts



## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

How adequate is aa palm on down hill cuts. On my range their is a 40 yard
down with a 28 degree angle i use a suunto to figer angle. I allways shoot it low about 3 inch under spot if a add a yard +half to range i come right in . The range is right on 40 yards checked it with tape . My right and left is right on just low ? Thanks for info


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

It cut too much for me. I use sine, cosine whatever it is.


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

for me it worked perfect. today was my first time using it and i actually wish i would have trusted it on one shot i didnt cut what it recomended and the first arrow cost me .. 
It was really helpful on a 14 yard shot with a 25 degree downhill with dots smaller than a bottle cap,,, and many many others


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## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

redman said:


> How adequate is aa palm on down hill cuts. On my range their is a 40 yard
> down with a 28 degree angle i use a suunto to figer angle. I allways shoot it low about 3 inch under spot if a add a yard +half to range i come right in . The range is right on 40 yards checked it with tape . My right and left is right on just low ? Thanks for info


I never leave home without it!!!!

Range it, hit it with the Suunto, put your #'s in your palm, set your sight and shoot it....

X everytime!!!


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

I use AA Palm and AA and have for years.

I don't use AA Palm for the cuts. It cuts too much on downhill shots and not enough on uphill shots. It's close enough on the simple shots but when you get into an extreme angle it will be off. 

There's a particularly long steep downhill target at the Oregon Safari. If you use AAPalm you will miss it out the bottom every time. I learned that the hard way once and haven't used AAPalm for my cuts since then. Bob knows which one I'm talking about.

The only time I use it is for very short, steep downhill shots. There are times when you are so close and so steep that you have to set your sight above the highest mark on your tape. We have a 37 degree 15 yarder on my home range. You have to be quite a bit above your highest mark or you will miss it high. Before AAPalm we used to just run our sight up about a turn above our highest mark. I know a couple of others around like that. AAPalm works great for those shots.


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

Indianbullet said:


> for me it worked perfect. today was my first time using it and i actually wish i would have trusted it on one shot i didnt cut what it recomended and the first arrow cost me ..
> It was really helpful on a 14 yard shot with a 25 degree downhill with dots smaller than a bottle cap,,, and many many others


Nevada City, I'm guessing. Works great on that shot. Now, on that 69 yard elk it will tell you to cut almost a yard.


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## TRB (Nov 28, 2002)

*Theres more variables in your form than the aa palm formula*

It works great for me! Please remember that your form is alot more critical on those steeper angles. The most commonly overlooked error is to shoot your shot and not maintain your alignment between the scope housing and the center of your peep sight orfice. The aa palm program is not the problem. If you are good enough to shoot arrow slapping groups on those steeper shots you will still find that if you vary your sight picture alignment that tight group of arrows will not be in the same place even though you didnt change your sight setting! Form goes a long ways in all aspects of accuracy...Just being able to group doesn't mean that the group is going to be where you want it to be!!!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

TRB said:


> It works great for me! Please remember that your form is alot more critical on those steeper angles. The most commonly overlooked error is to shoot your shot and not maintain your alignment between the scope housing and the center of your peep sight orfice. The aa palm program is not the problem. If you are good enough to shoot arrow slapping groups on those steeper shots you will still find that if you vary your sight picture alignment that tight group of arrows will not be in the same place even though you didnt change your sight setting! Form goes a long ways in all aspects of accuracy...Just being able to group doesn't mean that the group is going to be where you want it to be!!!


Well said!
In addition, if your drawlength is too long, it can create utter havoc with the uphill and downhill shots by throwing off your form something terrible.
If you aren't ProActive and PRACTICE with toes up, toes down, and one leg higher than the other...then you are adding yet another "dilemma" to the shooting matrix in that you don't know how YOUR impact point changes under these conditions that you WILL run into on a field course sooner or later....most likely sooner rather than later.

The computer world and clinometers are nice...but can give you a very false sense of security if you don't know how YOU react to the other variables. It can end up costing you points instead of "getting" you points. Too much faith in the "techno-toys", IMHO is a dangerous thing out on a field course.

field14


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

TRB said:


> It works great for me! Please remember that your form is alot more critical on those steeper angles. The most commonly overlooked error is to shoot your shot and not maintain your alignment between the scope housing and the center of your peep sight orfice. The aa palm program is not the problem. If you are good enough to shoot arrow slapping groups on those steeper shots you will still find that if you vary your sight picture alignment that tight group of arrows will not be in the same place even though you didnt change your sight setting! Form goes a long ways in all aspects of accuracy...Just being able to group doesn't mean that the group is going to be where you want it to be!!!


Well, yes, it is wrong. And, yes, I am good enough to shoot arrow slapping groups at some pretty steep targets. I may not be world class but I'm good enough to consistently shoot mid-540's on field and hunter rounds. 

I've used AAPalm for years and years. I know Perry and spoken with him on the phone and talked to him at shoots.

We were using Archers Advantage here in the west for years before it caught on anywhere else. It is common knowledge here. 

Now, if you don't get into extreme stuff you won't have a problem. But, on very steep or very long shots it will tell you to cut too much on downhill stuff and not enough on uphill shots.

Again, I learned this the hard way at Oregon Safari a few years ago. There is a very steep downhill 76 yarder. I was shooting in the money shoot with a group that included several NFAA pros and a former USAT member. I cut the 5 1/4 yards that AAPalm told me to cut and missed both just out the bottom. When asked by the group what I cut I was told that the real number was 4 yards and that they had all quit using AAPalm for that exact reason. Using the cosine gives you a 4 yard cut. I've used the cosine ever since without a problem.

On my home range if you cut what AAPalm says on our 80 yarder you'll be flirting with the bottom of the spot.

I can give you dozens of similar examples from ranges all over California.

Again, if you're looking at stuff that's 40 yards and 7 or 8 degrees you won't have a problem, but if you get into extreme stuff you'll miss.

Simple trig works better.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Most of the time i use the uphill cuts for every thing up and down and take 3 
of the angle . This has been working for me What do you mean by cosine ? Thanks for info


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

redman said:


> Most of the time i use the uphill cuts for every thing up and down and take 3
> of the angle . This has been working for me What do you mean by cosine ? Thanks for info


Well my trig was too many decades ago to give you a good explanation but the short answer is you measure the angle in degrees and get the cosine for that number and multiply it times the yardage.

If you have a 9 degree target at 40 yards you simply multiply the cosine of 9 which is about .9877 times 40. That gives you 39.508. So you would shoot that target for 39.5 yards.

You can probably do a web search and find a cosine chart, then all you need is a calculator.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

I will try it out at bow range. It looks to be real close to aa up hill cuts


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

6X60 said:


> Nevada City, I'm guessing. Works great on that shot. Now, on that 69 yard elk it will tell you to cut almost a yard.



You got that right  And the Sea Hunt this week will put it to the test again


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

Indianbullet said:


> You got that right  And the Sea Hunt this week will put it to the test again


Wow, I just noticed that I really didn't finish that sentence about the elk.

AA will tell you to cut nearly a yard, in reality it's only about a half. 

I run into shots like that short, steep one every now and then. AA works great on those where you literally have to be above your highest mark on the tape.


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