# Kaminski not shooting Hoyt in 2017



## rat4go (Apr 14, 2011)

No details on what he's shooting yet (maybe next week), but not Hoyt.

Expected as he's been blurring out his bow in pix on his social media accounts, but....


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

Win and Win?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

First Khatuna. Now Jake...

:zip:


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

rat4go said:


> No details on what he's shooting yet (maybe next week), but not Hoyt.
> 
> Expected as he's been blurring out his bow in pix on his social media accounts, but....


I'm not logging on to Facebook for a while. Has he confirmed he isn't shooting Hoyt? Because he did receive a bow from them already.


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## rat4go (Apr 14, 2011)

Arsi said:


> I'm not logging on to Facebook for a while. Has he confirmed he isn't shooting Hoyt? Because he did receive a bow from them already.


Yes. He did a "live from ATA" vid. Said definately not Hoyt. He hoped to have signed with new manuf by today to be able to announce, but that didnt happen so cant announce new bow yet.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

rat4go said:


> Yes. He did a "live from ATA" vid. Said definately not Hoyt. He hoped to have signed with new manuf by today to be able to announce, but that didnt happen so cant announce new bow yet.


Ah very cool. I wonder if he got the new NS stuff. Keep us posted on what happens. I won't be able to follow it myself


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

Wow!! This is hard to believe, Jake and Khatuna are no longer shooting Hoyt. kinda makes me wonder how Hoyt could justify letting Jake leave.


Dewayne Martin


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

vabowdog said:


> Wow!! This is hard to believe, Jake and Khatuna are no longer shooting Hoyt. kinda makes me wonder how Hoyt could justify letting Jake leave.
> 
> 
> Dewayne Martin


There's never been a lot of room on a pro staff for a recurve archer. IOW - just one or two high profile archers is enough to grease the marketing machine and keep it going. The reason for this is that the recurve field in the U.S. is not nearly as deep as the compound field, so they don't have to cover as many bases to see that their bow ends up on the podium. Hoyt has Brady and now Mackenzie, so even with Jake and Khatuna's departure I'm sure they feel they have their bases covered when it comes to marketing their gear. Not only that, but they've made strides in Korea the past few years with some of their top men, so that leaves even less room.

Same was true when Butch, Vic and Jenny was the standard-bearers for US archery - Hoyt had Butch, PSE had Jenny and Mathews had Vic and who else did they really need?

One thing I've learned over the years about Hoyt is that more than anything else, they want to be associated with winners because they know that sells gear. When you see someone rise to the top of the ranks, the pressure is on for them to shoot Hoyt. They talked Brady out of Mathews (and Mathews helped this along by not "getting serious" about their recurve line) and they wanted him because it was obvious he was going to become the #1 recurve guy in the U.S. Now that it's obvious (or seems so) that Mackenzie will be the standard-bearer for US women, they have her on board and frankly, who else do they need? Their marketing budget on the recurve side can't possibly be that deep compared to their compound field. They are a business and they make business decisions.

Jake is also a businessman and makes business decisions, and if a company will pay him more to shoot their bow, and he feels he isn't giving anything up in performance, it's just a smart move for him to switch.

I've been in this sport for only 13 years now, but I can't ever recall more movement among top archers between sponsors as I've seen this year. Not sure why that is, but we've seen a lot of high profile archers leave the brands they've been with for a long time, this year.

Having said all that, this is where many top pros end up eating their advertisement words. Like the time a well known top compound archer told me the Nano Pro would never beat an X10 only to be beaten in the WC's later that year by a guy shooting Nano Pros, and lo and behold that well known archer has been on the CX pro staff, using Nano Pros for quite a few years now... Can't say I blame him, or Jake or Brady or any of them for their decisions. If you want to be a full-time professional you have to make smart business decisions. And when there is so little difference in equipment - as there is today - then you just go with the company that treats you the best.

I hope Jake finds a great relationship with whoever he goes with and that he keeps shooting at a high level. That's good for all the men. Not just Jake.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> There's never been a lot of room on a pro staff for a recurve archer. IOW - just one or two high profile archers is enough to grease the marketing machine and keep it going. The reason for this is that the recurve field in the U.S. is not nearly as deep as the compound field, so they don't have to cover as many bases to see that their bow ends up on the podium. Hoyt has Brady and now Mackenzie, so even with Jake and Khatuna's departure I'm sure they feel they have their bases covered when it comes to marketing their gear. Not only that, but they've made strides in Korea the past few years with some of their top men, so that leaves even less room.
> 
> Same was true when Butch, Vic and Jenny was the standard-bearers for US archery - Hoyt had Butch, PSE had Jenny and Mathews had Vic and who else did they really need?
> 
> ...




agreed, years ago, at a test event in Atlanta, most of us top skeet shooters were shooting three shotguns

the German Made K-80 and the Italian Made Perazzi Mirage or Beretta's top o the line offering. all of these were (new) going for 7K plus or so. Well one of the guys who ultimately made the 96 team showed up with a Browning Citoria-a solid gun but seen as sort of a class below the really high end guns. I asked the guy-who used to shoot the K gun if he liked the browning better and he said YEAH its much better. And I looked at him (many of the browning parts are cast while the K-80 and the High end Italian rigs are almost all machined) and he smiled and whispered to me (Jim, I shoot the Browning as well as the K gun and Browning gave me a really good deal that Krieghoff wouldn't so I switched)

exactly. He picked the gun that gave him the best deal and as LONG AS IT DIDN'T cost him targets, it was a good move. and since they gave him several guns, the durability wasn't an issue either


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I have to believe that there is even less difference among top recurve bows than there is among top compounds, which makes it even easier to switch. If folks will recall, even Butch Johnson - Hoyt's flag bearer for as long as I could recall - switched to W&W for a short time. He shot the 2012 trials with W&W gear, and I can't tell that it hurt his performance one bit.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Just watched Jake's live feed last night and it sucks to see him so frustrated. Whoever the new company is, this is not a good way for them to start a long term relationship with him, esp. if it is a new brand that's serious about entering the recurve market.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Personally I think its great that big name archers like him are branching out to other companies. Gives other recurve manufacturers a boost in this Hoyt monopolized sport. Its good to have variety. Plus, with as many sponsored archers that Hoyt has, how much money was Jake really making over there... Probably not a lot I'm guessing.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

what will he do if he does not sign a contract? 

Will he shoot the riser anyway since he is a competitor first and needs to shoot what shoots best for him? Or will he go back to Hoyt who he says he will not shoot for in 2017? Or will he shoot a third bow/ company? 

2017 is here. Vegas starts in 3 weeks.


Chris


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

chrstphr said:


> 2017 is here. Vegas starts in 3 weeks.


And Lancaster is in 2 weeks!


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Without divulging too much - there are some companies that are still behind the 8 ball in getting their contracts out to various shooters. I know that recently signed (like, a couple of days ago) Danielle Reynolds just got her Bowtech contract while she had her equipment in hand from Bowtech for a couple of months now. 

So, for whatever reasons, Jake and BlurGate is going to continue on for a short while longer until the lawyers get off their rear ends and get going.


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## erickatgta (Apr 22, 2013)

fivics?


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## MinderThr33 (Apr 4, 2012)

erickatgta said:


> fivics?


What's the guess based on? On the Easton podcast, they said even with the blur, it's obvious what bow he's shooting. I guess that's why they're the experts as I have no idea what it is.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

He mentioned at ATA that he got to demo the new Fiberbow and liked it a lot. Couldn't tell if that was a joke or not thou.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

rjbishop said:


> He mentioned at ATA that he got to demo the new Fiberbow and liked it a lot. Couldn't tell if that was a joke or not thou.


As far as Fiberbow is concerned, a joke for sure, as they do not have target limbs.

There are only 4 companies in the world that can sponsor to a top shooter both limbs and riser: Hoyt, W&W, Fivics and Uukka. There are others, of course, but not at same level. Just for reference.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Well, to be fair, if SKY wanted to sponsor both riser and limbs, they could. Jim can build to that level if he chooses to.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

MK Korea does not pay any archer to shoot their gear. They do not sponsor aside from free or discounted bows.

So it is not MK Korea. 


Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

chrstphr said:


> MK Korea does not pay any archer to shoot their gear. They do not sponsor aside from free or discounted bows.
> 
> So it is not MK Korea.
> 
> ...


Another company that could - if they wanted - provide top level risers and limbs.


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## erickatgta (Apr 22, 2013)

MinderThr33 said:


> What's the guess based on? On the Easton podcast, they said even with the blur, it's obvious what bow he's shooting. I guess that's why they're the experts as I have no idea what it is.


Just my guess from big brands:
1. hoyt out
2. W&W- possible but I feel like they more focus on Asian and they got enough top archers 
3.MK- I am not sure but I feel like they sponsor no one or my mistake
4.SKY- possible, but they donot seem like looking for sponsor archery
5, Uukha- possible, but they donot seem like looking for sponsor archery
6.Fivics-growing fast. Big share at Euro. Need someone at N/A

So comes with W&W, Fivics or other brands I donot know.. Again, just my guess.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Well, there is always PSE. I think Vic was still shooting PSE at the trials if I'm not mistaken. Of course, that's just the riser these days.


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## toxoph (Mar 24, 2005)

Border makes both I believe.


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

It's like our very own "where's Levi going" thread. LOL


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## Z3R0 (Nov 6, 2014)

erickatgta said:


> Just my guess from big brands:
> 1. hoyt out
> 2. W&W- possible but I feel like they more focus on Asian and they got enough top archers
> 3.MK- I am not sure but I feel like they sponsor no one or my mistake
> ...


Uukha actually seems to sponsor a fair number of archers, but just relatively few with major international exposure. I guess Jake would be a pretty big name to end that trend, though...


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## Atascaderobow (Nov 4, 2014)

If we were to have a betting pool I would go with Win & Win. Katuna seems to be the USA Win & Win sponsored shooter. Do we have a male Win & Win sponsored shooter in the USA? Hence my pool pick. Of course until the name is signed on the dotted line.....


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

She wasn't the only woman at the Oly. trials shooting W&W.


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## erickatgta (Apr 22, 2013)

Z3R0 said:


> Uukha actually seems to sponsor a fair number of archers, but just relatively few with major international exposure. I guess Jake would be a pretty big name to end that trend, though...


sorry. my inform is kind of limited... thanks for sharing..


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Interesting post by Uukha on facebook today.... They have a new staff shooter who they are "going to reveal soon" but is anonymous for now, very coincidental. Wonder if Jake is shooting the carbon squirrel now and he just wont say it.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

Jake commented yesterday that they're being treated very well and seemed pretty chirpy. He was at the Axcel booth yesterday, with Brady and Zach. But not at the Hoyt booth with them the day before.

Looking at the new Nano TFT, I would not be surprised if it's W&W. Just speculation, you understand. 





































I didn't shoot it because it had 34# on it, and I haven't shot in weeks, but it was very well balanced and felt great in the hand. The aesthetics speak for themselves. The W&W guys seem very excited about it.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/Uukha-254003314743653/


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## UtahIdahoHunter (Mar 27, 2008)

rjbishop said:


> Interesting post by Uukha on facebook today.... They have a new staff shooter who they are "going to reveal soon" but is anonymous for now, very coincidental. Wonder if Jake is shooting the carbon squirrel now and he just wont say it.


Saw that too and was thinking the same thing.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

Jake doesn't shoot those kind of vanes on his X10s


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

julle said:


> Jake doesn't shoot those kind of vanes on his X10s


Was thinking the same thing.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Off topic a little, but if my eyes aren't deceiving me, Win & Win gave their WS-600 sight a cosmetic adjustment and it's now called the WS-700. I couldn't find this new sight on the win-archery.com site though. I wonder if it's a replacement to the WS-600 or an "upgrade".



Ms.Speedmaster said:


> View attachment 5346537


Thanks for the photo Ms. Speedmaster!

-Kent W.


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## TheElBow (May 18, 2015)

http://win-archery.com/products/ws700-sight


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

julle said:


> Jake doesn't shoot those kind of vanes on his X10s





limbwalker said:


> Was thinking the same thing.


My guess is AAE introducing new vanes too.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

granite14 said:


> My guess is AAE introducing new vanes too.


They're going to have some problems with xs wings then :')


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## Doughman (Aug 28, 2016)

Hoyt target recurve bows, what are they good and not so great about? I would very much like to hear some feedback if you care to share some insights?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Hoyt is the largest US bow manufacturer. Been in business decades. Injects plenty of money into the sport of archery. Is tied in with Easton Arrow company. 

Doesnt get more name recognition in the world for bows than Hoyt. 

Having said all that, there customer service is the lousiest in the business. The reps are not much better. What else is there to say.

People either love Hoyt or hate Hoyt. I fall in the latter. 


Chris


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

chrstphr said:


> Hoyt is the largest US bow manufacturer. Been in business decades. Injects plenty of money into the sport of archery. Is tied in with Easton Arrow company.
> 
> Doesnt get more name recognition in the world for bows than Hoyt.
> 
> ...


False dichotomy. More choices are available. I don't "love" my Hoyt, but I like it a lot.  

And frankly, as a dealer rep for another company, you should recuse yourself from this conversation.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

chrstphr said:


> Hoyt is the largest US bow manufacturer. Been in business decades. Injects plenty of money into the sport of archery. Is tied in with Easton Arrow company.
> 
> Doesnt get more name recognition in the world for bows than Hoyt.
> 
> ...


Lots of different perspectives out there. I don't shoot a Hoyt anymore. I love my new gear. That being said, I have had nothing but exemplary service from hoyt. They replaced a set of limbs that delaminated, that I bought on clearance from an overseas "unauthorized" distributer, that had been discontinued a year earlier, with a set of newer model limbs, and covered shipping. 

So, I have nothing but good to say about my experience with their CS.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Seattlepop said:


> False dichotomy. More choices are available. I don't "love" my Hoyt, but I like it a lot.
> 
> And frankly, as a dealer rep for another company, you should recuse yourself from this conversation.


Frankly the first bow that i shot for about 7 years was a HOYT aerotec with G3 limbs. I am certainly allowed to speak of my experience with Hoyt customer service as an archer. I made no mention of Hoyt being more or less than MK Korea. I in fact donated my Hoyt riser to a college program so it could have a life after me. While i liked the riser, i did not care for the customer service when i had a problem with the riser or limbs. 

I stated my opinion which i can have regardless of my capacity as a bow company rep. You will also find throughout my postings on here, even before i became an MK distributor, i shared the same Hoyt stories. I was fair and accurate. You may disagree, but my points are still valid. 

Other experiences may vary. My opinion is only as good as its taken. You are free to ignore it. 

Chris


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

"Having said all that, there customer service is the lousiest in the business. The reps are not much better. What else is there to say.
People either love Hoyt or hate Hoyt. I fall in the latter. "

"I stated my opinion which i can have regardless of my capacity as a bow company rep. You will also find throughout my postings on here, even before i became an MK distributor, i shared the same Hoyt stories. I was fair and accurate. You may disagree, but my points are still valid. "

There exists a difference between a factual statement and an opinion.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

chrstphr said:


> Frankly the first bow that i shot for about 7 years was a HOYT aerotec with G3 limbs. I am certainly allowed to speak of my experience with Hoyt customer service as an archer. I made no mention of Hoyt being more or less than MK Korea. I in fact donated my Hoyt riser to a college program so it could have a life after me. While i liked the riser, i did not care for the customer service when i had a problem with the riser or limbs.
> 
> I stated my opinion which i can have regardless of my capacity as a bow company rep. You will also find throughout my postings on here, even before i became an MK distributor, i shared the same Hoyt stories. I was fair and accurate. You may disagree, but my points are still valid.
> 
> ...


I have very much enjoyed your posts through the years, but I think that once you become a company rep your protocols change. Vittorio is a good model to emulate. He has represented several Italian co's through the years and I have never seen him post a disparaging comment about his competition.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

I could never equal the standard of Vittorio. 


Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

So any word from camp K ?


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## rat4go (Apr 14, 2011)

From JK FB feed yesterday am:

"ATA 2017 is a wrap! Made some new contacts, renewed others, had some fun and made an announcement on how I wasn't going to be with Hoyt in 2017 to end #Blurgate. I was hoping to announce where I was headed during the show and apologize for not being able to share where I am headed yet. (Hope next week) Thanks everyone for the support and interest of what bow I am shooting."


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## Z3R0 (Nov 6, 2014)

I think this is the big name Uukha was teasing about: https://www.instagram.com/p/BPUrraUDv6k/

(Ernesto Boardman)

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Z3R0 (Nov 6, 2014)

Jake also just posted on Facebook that "#blurgate" will end (for real this time) at 7:30pm Eastern tonight in a Facebook Live video. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

Speaking of Jake, fantastic Bowjunkcy podcast: http://bowjunkymedia.libsyn.com/bowjunky-podcast-ep-8


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## Z3R0 (Nov 6, 2014)

He just confirmed it's W&W. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

called it. good for him.


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## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

Yep. Good for him. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

Cool release video: https://www.facebook.com/kaminskijake/videos/1104451346347203/


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Grips. Gah it always comes down to grips...

Best of luck to him with the W&W gear.


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## Atascaderobow (Nov 4, 2014)

Atascaderobow said:


> If we were to have a betting pool I would go with Win & Win. Katuna seems to be the USA Win & Win sponsored shooter. Do we have a male Win & Win sponsored shooter in the USA? Hence my pool pick. Of course until the name is signed on the dotted line.....


Woohoo, 1st time I been right since I learned to agree with my wife on EVERYTHING!!!


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## TwentySix (Feb 25, 2011)

40+ minutes is long. Anyone want to share a list of video highlights?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

This thread does beg the question, how many pages did the discussion go when Khatuna switched to W&W?


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> This thread does beg the question, how many pages did the discussion go when Khatuna switched to W&W?


This really is a brilliant example of post-modern viral marketing. They've probably already covered any expenses that come from the deal just through the increased exposure. Bravo to all.


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Most of what you'll want to know is in the first 15 or so minutes, lots of Q & A after that.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Along similar meta lines I would be curious whether the most effective marketing on the thread in terms of inserting the "buy me" bug in brains was (a) the "where is Jake going" soap opera or (b) just showing the bow.


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## paper shooter 2 (Jun 30, 2016)

"This thread does beg the question, how many pages did the discussion go when Khatuna switched to W&W?"

Did Khatuna do the full dog and pony show like Jake? That might explain some of it.


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## rat4go (Apr 14, 2011)

Jake certainly teased the pending change for awhile. Not sure if KL did the same. Frankly, his handling of his changing brands probably brought more brand attention just because of that (assuming she didnt do similar). If i were a company looking for exposure, jakes method was a pretty solid marketing move. I cant help but wonder as an outsider if the beginnings of it were to add leverage with any pending discussions with Hoyt before a decision was made. If so, that part may not have helped him.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

My question was not a knock on Jake (he's always been a brilliant marketer of himself and his sponsor's products) but rather a comment on the difference between how men and women are viewed in this sport. I look forward to the day when one of our top ladies switches brands and it creates this big of a stir.


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

I really think if Khatuna had done something similar, she would have created a lot more buzz then she did. On her end it seemed more subtle and spread out. Jake's was more "tidal wave." Social Media is huge, especially with doing live feeds off a phone nowadays. He pumped the heck out of this switch and got a lot of people excited about Win&Win (including me, diehard Hoyt since starting recurve). When pro's talk about spec's and what they are shooting, etc, it gives people who appreciate the tech side a baseline to look at. I also appreciate the candor without dumping on old sponsors. It's the same with elections, she/he who gets their name out the most has a better chance. Personal brand recognition.''

For me personally, his tech Q&A made me listen more. As an Engineer, I like that kind of thing. People switching bow's doesn't interest me as much. Levi, Samantha, Jesse, Crystal doesn't matter what bow but do a stream on tech numbers and I'm in.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I also appreciate the candor without dumping on old sponsors





> For me personally, his tech Q&A made me listen more. As an Engineer, I like that kind of thing. People switching bow's doesn't interest me as much. Levi, Samantha, Jesse, Crystal doesn't matter what bow but do a stream on tech numbers and I'm in.


Agreed on both counts.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

What is your take on his customized grip, how he sets his hand on the grip, grip pressure? The little "v" that fits in the webbing of the bowhand? 
I tend to set my hand on the grip (on the edge of my Jager grip), let my hand reach into the deep part of the grip and then reach the thumb a bit forward. What he is saying sounds like what people have been telling me, but explained a little more clearly.

What say you, advanced shooters?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jake's a smart guy who has learned a ton about how to shoot very high scores. Anytime he explains something in detail it would pay to listen IMO. When I was starting out, anything Butch or Vic did or said, I made a mental note of. Anyone who has learned how to shoot 340+ consistently, knows what the heck they are talking about.


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

paper shooter 2 said:


> Did Khatuna do the full dog and pony show like Jake? That might explain some of it.


This and nothing more.
The recognition is solely Jakes merit. He was one of the first archers using social media intensively.


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## RMBX10 (Jun 20, 2002)

Captain Kirk said:


> This and nothing more.
> The recognition is solely Jakes merit. He was one of the first archers using social media intensively.


It also helps that he's coming off of a silver medal performance in Rio while Khatuna made the switch and didn't qualify for Rio. Those recent Olympic medals help a lot. This is not a knock on Khatuna, but it has been 25 years since she won her medal. A lot of the people watching Jake's FB feed weren't alive when she won her medal.


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

Hmmm, I'll admit I didn't read every post, but I have a thought or two. It's business. 

1) It makes no sense to me that so many archers that were sponsored before will continue. Each company should have only a few and pay them well enough that this is their job in life. But during an expanding market companies will play the field, sponsor many, sow seeds, and see where their markets are. And adjust accordingly. 
2) It does make sense to me that archery after 5-10 years of expansion pulls back on the marketing machine and focuses where there's bang for the buck in their primary market. 
Result, movement and reduction among those caught in the cycle.


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## wesel (Sep 6, 2013)

It looks like Jake now really has a choice of what combination to shoot (riser + limbs). From what I've watched on youtube people on the US team always have to shoot 'the latest & the greatest'. I guess that having an option to assemble the proper combination for you is a big plus and right now he is able to do this.


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## Neo888 (Feb 4, 2009)

wesel said:


> It looks like Jake now really has a choice of what combination to shoot (riser + limbs). From what I've watched on youtube people on the US team always have to shoot 'the latest & the greatest'. I guess that having an option to assemble the proper combination for you is a big plus and right now he is able to do this.


Watching the Lancaster Classic I am not sure how much option he has at the end to choose


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm sure Jake can choose colour of riser!


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