# Need advice from coaches with JOAD CLubs



## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

I have a rather large JOAD Club and most of us competed at Indoor Nationals JMU this past weekend.

I've always set the expectations for our club to present a professional, sportsmanlike image.

It seems this weekend everything fell apart, kids weren't wearing team shirts, people left right after shooting missing the team photo and generally were on their own program. 
I had a few private discussions with some of the parents and some were quick to point out my flaws as a coach. It kinda hurt but I accepted the criticism with an open mind to hopefully learn and grow into a better coach.

I made it clear to them that I would be competing at the 8am slot and they should choose a later time if they wanted me to be available to give encouragement to their child during the tournament. 
I wanted all members to be there for the awards ceremony to support all the winners. Whether they were getting an award or not they needed to be present. 

To be honest many of the other teams present looked and behaved much better than ours and it made me feel embarrassed that we could not come together in this way.

I do not want to be the mean coach that the kids fear but somehow my skills seem to be lacking and the perception is that I don't dedicate enough time to help the kids get better. Is it normal for parents to blame the coach when their kid doesn't participate in practices?

I run a full time archery shop and our range is open to the kids to come and practice anytime during business hours, I dedicate an hour each month for a one on one time with each member. So, we can discuss issues and work out our training plans. The team meets as a group once a week for practice, pin shoots or mail in tournaments. 
Many of the kids come after school each day to "practice" parents drive by and drop them off at the door, pick them up at closing time.
I'm looking for advise from other coaches on how they handle their clubs. These kids are intermediate to advanced archers who have been close to podium or have been there. Many have been to Nationals both outdoor and Indoor so they are not new to the sport.

Someone told me once that if I have 1 or 2 high level dedicated athletes, that is enough for any coach. Wanting them all to put fourth 100% effort is just too much to ask.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

How many of your JOAD students did you have a JMU?


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

From reading your posts over the past couple years, I know that you've been at this JOAD club for awhile and pride yourself not just on performance of your athletes but the "look"/professionalism of your team. I'm sure you know the extra work it takes just to run that tight of a ship beyond coaching their performance. Is it possible that after the years of doing this that you yourself have slipped a little bit in keeping the ship tight because it has been in the past?

Otherwise, here are a couple other suggestions/ideas/etc. First, make them earn the right to be considered part of your JOAD club. From following GRIV (who has one of the best Jr. club programs of all time), I can see the honor it is for his students to be part of the Hornet team and wear that shirt. It's an honor because they have to earn the right to wear the shirt and were preceded by some very successful shooters in that honor. Second, make sure that they clearly know what you expect of them and what will happen if they don't meet those expectations. Not just the students but the parents need to know this info too. Third, and this is a hard one, when I'm coaching, I don't like to shoot too. I find that if I try to do both, I do neither well and it's not fair to my students or myself if I'm dividing my time and concentration between two things. Going back to GRIV, I have no idea how he can do like he did at Vegas and have his whole team there shooting and still shoot as great as he did, unless it's to rely heavily on his assistant coaches when he's competing at an event.


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## Brian A (Feb 22, 2016)

Assistant coach or coaches would be the missing element I am afraid. You are doing all one person can do. However if you had another person or two to help it would improve the moral and support of a large team. Having them earn the right to wear the team shirt is also a huge plus. If your program was small and needed every shooter to compete that would be one thing, but having plenty and letting everyone shoot just cause they want to doesn't put any sacrifice, commitment, or determination on the archer's part.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

aread said:


> How many of your JOAD students did you have a JMU?


14 kids and 4 adults.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Supermag1 said:


> From reading your posts over the past couple years, I know that you've been at this JOAD club for awhile and pride yourself not just on performance of your athletes but the "look"/professionalism of your team. I'm sure you know the extra work it takes just to run that tight of a ship beyond coaching their performance. Is it possible that after the years of doing this that you yourself have slipped a little bit in keeping the ship tight because it has been in the past?
> 
> Yes, as hard as it is to admit it, I'm afraid I have slipped. Maybe it's not the kids or parents at all. Maybe it's me I have to take a hard look at.
> 
> Otherwise, here are a couple other suggestions/ideas/etc. First, make them earn the right to be considered part of your JOAD club. From following GRIV (who has one of the best Jr. club programs of all time), I can see the honor it is for his students to be part of the Hornet team and wear that shirt. It's an honor because they have to earn the right to wear the shirt and were preceded by some very successful shooters in that honor. Second, make sure that they clearly know what you expect of them and what will happen if they don't meet those expectations. Not just the students but the parents need to know this info too. Third, and this is a hard one, when I'm coaching, I don't like to shoot too. I find that if I try to do both, I do neither well and it's not fair to my students or myself if I'm dividing my time and concentration between two things. Going back to GRIV, I have no idea how he can do like he did at Vegas and have his whole team there shooting and still shoot as great as he did, unless it's to rely heavily on his assistant coaches when he's competing at an event.





Brian A said:


> Assistant coach or coaches would be the missing element I am afraid. You are doing all one person can do. However if you had another person or two to help it would improve the moral and support of a large team. Having them earn the right to wear the team shirt is also a huge plus. If your program was small and needed every shooter to compete that would be one thing, but having plenty and letting everyone shoot just cause they want to doesn't put any sacrifice, commitment, or determination on the archer's part.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is what I'm going to have to do. I have an Elite team and only a couple of them have become disruptive to the dynamics of the group. I'll be splitting up the group but I guess it's time They decide if they want to be part of the team and "re earn" their spot on the team and the right to wear the shirt.

thank you all, I knew I could count on you for the right answers.


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## Atascaderobow (Nov 4, 2014)

First off kudos to you for running a JOAD program. Doing that isn't something for the faint of heart. 

"Is it normal for parents to blame the coach when their kid doesn't participate in practices?"

Doesn't matter what sport it is.... a lot of parents are quick to blame the coaches for their kid's behavior or their lack of commitment. Not wearing the team colors or staying to support the team shows a lack of dedication from the parents. That teaches a "Me first" mentality.

I really like your approach to them re-earning their spot. You might have to cull the herd a bit and focus on the kids that actually want to be there. It's painful to cut a kid, but sometimes it's in the best interest of the entire team. Shooting for a team is a privilege, not a right. If you have some kids that are only there for something to do, let em shoot and focus on your serious shooters. If they are disruptive sit them down and let their parents know their money is going to junior being on time out the entire practice. You might send out tournament invites to your most dedicated shooters. They may not be your best shooters, but the ones that are in your program to get better. The flighty kids can attend a tournament, but not fly the team colors until they earn them. 

When I coached high school softball I wrote up a contract, with the expectations, for the coaches, parents and players. Everybody signed it and we followed it to a tee. Lay down the law and hold fast. You might call a parents meeting well after a tournament to discuss issues. Sometimes there needs to be a cooling off period.

JOAD isn't your local YMCA program. JOAD is for those who want to improve. If Susie is only there because her parents want her to be there, they are basically wasting their money and your precious coaching time. Your time is golden, spend it on the kids that have true dedication. Talent with a Diva attitude is a true waste. Look at all the talented athletes that washed out of the pros because they weren't dedicated to their craft and team.

Sorry, off my soap box now. Good luck and I hope things work out for the best.

Pete


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## rkumetz (Jun 20, 2014)

XForce Girl said:


> It seems this weekend everything fell apart, kids weren't wearing team shirts, people left right after shooting missing the team photo and generally were on their own program.
> I had a few private discussions with some of the parents and some were quick to point out my flaws as a coach. It kinda hurt but I accepted the criticism with an open mind to hopefully learn and grow into a better coach.


Would it be out of the question for you to share those "flaws as a coach"? Keep in mind that people tend to go on the offensive to defend their kids (and themselves). 
I have read a lot of your posts and I can see that you take your responsibilities as a coach seriously so maybe you need to be objective in your processing of those
criticisms. Are they really major issues or are they just crap that they are throwing out there to deflect blame back to you?

I am definitely not suggesting that you dismiss their comments but you may want to talk to someone you trust who has seen you in action as a coach/team leader
and see if they agree.


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## mkolker (Nov 7, 2012)

I agree about the assistant coaches. The best club I was in recruited parents to be coaches and also pulled in experienced archers as coaches. Before each tournament, one of the coaches would discuss tournament behavior and preparation. Both our kids and our parents were prepared. We also watched the line and alerted the more experienced coaches if an archer was struggling or just needed encouragement. 

One person can't do it all. The parents want to help. Find ways to get them more involved. Another lesson that I learned is that it is OK for a coach to work with a kid during a tournament, but the parent should steer clear. Since several of the parents were coaches, we would watch each other's kids and have someone else make suggestions to our kids. If I said it was time to move the sight, I would get an eye roll. If one of the other coaches suggested it, the sight would immediately be adjusted.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

PM me your email address. I have some materials that should prove to be very helpful for your situation. 

~Gail


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