# JOAD Adult Achievement -- well that was different



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Glad it was a good experience for you.

Last night, at our club, we had 19 archers all shooting for achievement pins, nearly half of which were adults. The adult achievement program has been fantastic, and fulfills the desire of many to see parents shoot alongside their kids. The parents like the achievement pins as much as the kids do!


----------



## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Our adult club started participating in the achievement program, and I agree with John, it's been nothing but a hit. 

One, it made the club shoots a lot more competitive, and just that much closer to actual tournament shooting. Nothing like dangling a carrot out there to get archers to start practicing...

Two, it fostered a bit of healthy competition between parents and children. In one instance, the son is the instructor, and dad the student.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

It's nice that you had a good first experience. I've been at the range while JOAD/AAP were going on, but I never bothered to join. Seems like everyone was enjoying the program though.


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

In my club I think there are usually about 40% adults to 60% children participating in the local tournament for JOAD and AAP pins. I find that it is a great way to do something as a family. My husband and our son also shoot. I find the pins help us see how much we improve over time. 

I am still working on getting my black pin 

I definitely gives a thumb's up for the way the pin shoots are run.


----------



## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

We do that indoors and outdoors. Outdoors more fun. Had 4 adults on the 50M target yesterday and we sort of crowded together to simulate actual competition. No humans were injured poked or blinded by stabilizers. 6 ends of 6 arrows. All of us chasing that black pin....

The kids in the JOAD group are terrific. Good shooters, polite, know their stuff. One family is dad (compound), mom (recurve) bowman daughter (recurve) 

Much more fun to play with others.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I find that it is a great way to do something as a family.


Yes indeed. One by one, I've watched parents get up off the chairs/benches and pick up a bow to play. Over the past few years, we've had a number of moms start shooting archery because they figured they were going to be there anyway, so they might as well do something fun. They love it. 

My wife now shoots 70 meters (with a recurve) alongside our daughter. I have a family of four that routinely shoots together, and another family that is sometimes seven all by themselves. 

If all the families show up, we'll have about ten parents and 17 or 18 kids shooting all at the same time. It looks like a tournament some Monday evenings. 

I couldn't be more proud of USArchery for adding this Adult Archery component. It also gives our JOAD kids a place to go when they age out.

John


----------



## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

It's a blast having several families on the line at the same time. Getting to shoot with my son is fun. 

The one thing I try to do when doing lane assignments is figure who might be best matched to help with scoring, who might learn something from another, and sometimes, who could make a friend.


----------



## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> It's a blast having several families on the line at the same time. Getting to shoot with my son is fun.
> 
> The one thing I try to do when doing lane assignments* is figure who might be best matched to help with scoring, who might learn something from another, and sometimes, who could make a friend. *


This is a great thing to do for your club members. Our club has achievement shoots where the youth shoot along side the adults. Different target faces however make the range expand some and make range layout a bit of a challenge but worth every bit of effort.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Our club has achievement shoots where the youth shoot along side the adults. Different target faces however make the range expand some and make range layout a bit of a challenge but worth every bit of effort.


Do you mean indoors, or out?


----------



## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Both but

Indoors was easy. 9M and 18M and 60cm and 40cm targets. 

Outdoors 15 20 25 30 40 50 60. 2 different target faces at 30 and 50, usually with multiple bales needed at a few of the distances. There are times we need 10+ bales to handle a 25 person shoot.

Lots of layout work before even before moving the bales to their positions.

DC


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

We spent quite a bit of effort convincing USArchery to agree to achievement scores for all divisions on 122 cm faces, just to avoid this problem.

A few years ago, we were in the same boat. Setting up both 122's and 80's often at the same distances. Many times, we had to set up an entire bale just for one archer, while the bale next to it had 4 or 5 archers on it. No bueno. So I reached out to USArchery to ask if we could address this problem and make it easier on the program coordinators (and all their helpers who put out and take in bales and stands).

I'd suggest you take advantage of this.


----------



## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> We spent quite a bit of effort convincing USArchery to agree to achievement scores for all divisions on 122 cm faces, just to avoid this problem.
> 
> A few years ago, we were in the same boat. Setting up both 122's and 80's often at the same distances. Many times, we had to set up an entire bale just for one archer, while the bale next to it had 4 or 5 archers on it. No bueno. So I reached out to USArchery to ask if we could address this problem and make it easier on the program coordinators (and all their helpers who put out and take in bales and stands).
> 
> I'd suggest you take advantage of this.


Thanks. We have for many of our archers however there were a few people that still wanted to "achive" their 30M on the 80cm target because that's what they first started with, and they should be done soon, and the 40M black pin for Junior's are an additional bale that only one or two kids are shooting at any given time. All new archers at a particular distance are being told to shoot their scores on the 122 for this reason. But it's still a lot of bales to drag out and setup.. On any given achievement shoot there can be 1-2 youth at each distance. Really slows down scoring too because they have to move from bale to bale to do the scoring when only one archer is at a particular bale (we make them double score).

Oh yeah, the 60 and 70M doesn't help much either. We don't have any adult Olympic recurve class shooting 70 yet so we can get away with 50 for barebow but the kids have to shoot 60 for yellow olympic Recurve. 

Where we setup, 70M puts the shooting line for everyone else on a slight hill so not a good thing. 60M is about our limit unless we move to the longer section of the range. When we finally have to accommodate a 70M shooter, we will have to explore some different options. 

DC


----------



## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

And we did just have another Adult earn their Bronze barebow outdoor pin. YAY.. Shooting 26lb bow and Carbon Impact Super clubs no less.

DC


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Monday night, we had pin shoot, and two of my barebow shooters earned Olympian pins. One bronze, and one, perhaps the very first Gold Olympian JOAD barebow archer in the U.S. We had "ice cream" conditions and they both took full advantage of it.

Yes, I understand 100% what you're dealing with. Monday we had 19 (I think) archers and we had a bale at 70, 60, Three bales at 50, 40, and 30 meters. Seven bales, and some were still very crowded. But thankfully just about everyone in my club knows how to properly take down and set up the stands and bales. Our tear down took literally 10 minutes the other night.


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

I also love this programme  Our indoor range runs the adult programme at a different time to the kids, so it's not too crowded.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Our indoor range runs the adult programme at a different time to the kids


If it's really crowded, I can understand why, but that is a shame. Archery is one of the few sports that the whole family can participate in together. The AA program brought a lot of families together through archery. I would hate to separate my parents from their kids on the line. We would lose a LOT of parents if we did that.


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> Monday night, we had pin shoot, and two of my barebow shooters earned Olympian pins. One bronze, and one, perhaps the very first Gold Olympian JOAD barebow archer in the U.S. We had "ice cream" conditions and they both took full advantage of it.


Wow, gold Olympian in barebow? Amazing!

In our club the pin shoots are up to yellow only, the Olympian pins need to be earned at more official tournaments. I am still far from yellow so not worried but it is great that your club does the Olympian pins as well.

What are ice cream conditions?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

We have toyed with the idea of making our kids earn their Olympian pins at tournaments, but for barebow archers, those opportunities - esp. outdoors - are few and far between. And with this kid, I have no doubt this is just the beginning of many, many 300+ point 50M rounds. Now that he knows he can do it, it's Katie bar the door. Won't be long before he's nipping at my heels at 60 meters.

Ice cream conditions are basically dead calm, overcast days when the temperature is nice. Or, like shooting indoors, but outdoors. That's what we have had 2 of the last 3 weeks, and it's not often we have this in the springtime in Texas. Usually, it's blowing 15-20, and they are doing their best to keep the arrows on the bale.


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> If it's really crowded, I can understand why, but that is a shame. Archery is one of the few sports that the whole family can participate in together. The AA program brought a lot of families together through archery. I would hate to separate my parents from their kids on the line. We would lose a LOT of parents if we did that.


It's a pretty small range, so it makes sense to split the groups. Plus I think only one of the adults has a kid in JOAD. To be honest, as a non parent, I like that the groups are split... I don't have to watch my tongue


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

mahgnillig said:


> It's a pretty small range, so it makes sense to split the groups. Plus I think only one of the adults has a kid in JOAD. To be honest, as a non parent, I like that the groups are split... I don't have to watch my tongue


There's a time when I think an all grown up group would have been my preference - who needs other people's kids running around?. But, I have to say that as a non-parent the kids are actually pretty nice, as well as the parents.. Many of them are even "museum quality" children - really nice, down to earth, highly competent and sociable children, the kind of kids everybody wishes they had but most don't. The kids and their parents make the group more generally sociable, and the family atmosphere actually helps keep the group grounded. Sometimes the kids shoot and their parents later decide to take up archery, or the parent shoots then brings their kids - it goes all ways. And, as John points out, archery can be a great family sport, something you can't do with, say, tackle football.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> We have toyed with the idea of making our kids earn their Olympian pins at tournaments, but for barebow archers, those opportunities - esp. outdoors - are few and far between. And with this kid, I have no doubt this is just the beginning of many, many 300+ point 50M rounds. Now that he knows he can do it, it's Katie bar the door. Won't be long before he's nipping at my heels at 60 meters.
> 
> Ice cream conditions are basically dead calm, overcast days when the temperature is nice. Or, like shooting indoors, but outdoors. That's what we have had 2 of the last 3 weeks, and it's not often we have this in the springtime in Texas. Usually, it's blowing 15-20, and they are doing their best to keep the arrows on the bale.


JOAD Gold Olympian BB? Very cool.

As for Olympian pins only at tournaments? That would make them more substantial, like earning one's FITA pins, but the opportunities would be scarce even in a pretty rich archery community like the Bay Area - we don't have much WA/USAA here - and it would require the expense and time of attending competitions. I really like that the full AAP can be awarded by the club under the proper conditions, letting the club work with its members to meet their needs, and the club can also choose to encourage people to earn them at tournaments.

I also have to say that I'm still pretty darn happy with the new (ARY 2013 V2) outdoor score matrices, with all the options for target and distance, especially for BB. So thanks for making that happen. Right now we have a lot of adults shooting their BB pins at 50, but 70? I think many of those who earned their black would really have struggled with 70 - and likely have given up in the AAP awards. As a weekend club we only have official practice 2 hours a week (the dedicated archers practice on their own at the range) so they are mostly shooting rigs in the 20s and low 30s. Having the option of closer distances a real bonus to the club and the archers, as well as really helping with JOAD/AAP achievement shoot logistics.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

New BB distances and scores are forthcoming. There won't be a 70M requirement since we don't shoot 70 at Nationals in the BB division.

The recommendations we sent them were to increase the outdoor scores and decrease the indoor scores for BB. My student is very glad he got his gold olympian pin under these scores.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> New BB distances and scores are forthcoming. There won't be a 70M requirement since we don't shoot 70 at Nationals in the BB division.
> 
> The recommendations we sent them were to increase the outdoor scores and decrease the indoor scores for BB. My student is very glad he got his gold olympian pin under these scores.


Doh! The outdoor BB scores are fairly generous. Depending on the amount of change you may have thrown a wrench in my plan to earn adult BB bronze with one of our 10 pound Rolan training bows. :embara:


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The indoor scores were too high (you would have had to shoot at a National record pace to get the gold olympian pin) and the outdoor scores were too low, based on what I've seen from shooting many 60M outdoor barebow rounds now with our TOTS series. Rick S. routinely pushes 300 and I usually break 290 at 60M.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> The indoor scores were too high (you would have had to shoot at a National record pace to get the gold olympian pin) and the outdoor scores were too low, based on what I've seen from shooting many 60M outdoor barebow rounds now with our TOTS series. Rick S. routinely pushes 300 and I usually break 290 at 60M.


I hope you are still keeping 50M as an option - the 10 pounder is kind of iffy at 60 :embara:


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow said:


> I hope you are still keeping 50M as an option - the 10 pounder is kind of iffy at 60 :embara:


50 is an option all the way through Gold Olympian, because we wanted Juniors (who will be shooting 50 at Nationals) to be able to earn all their Olympian pins at that distance.

BTW, my student beat the Gold Olympian score he needed at 50M by 23 points. LOL.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> 50 is an option all the way through Gold Olympian, because we wanted Juniors (who will be shooting 50 at Nationals) to be able to earn all their Olympian pins at that distance.
> 
> BTW, my student beat the Gold Olympian score he needed at 50M by 23 points. LOL.


Wow, that is really really good  (303?)

Soooo, with that much extra I'd hope he'd have earned a gold under the new rules, too. :embara:


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Are the score adjustments are for both JOAD and AAP?


----------



## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

Shooting this format outside at longer distances sounds like a blast, but unfortunately our local JOAD program is limited to indoor shooting. It's just as well in my case though. I still need to learn what I'm doing with this thing. I'll occasionally shoot a few at 40 yds at our outdoor range and tried 50 for the first time tonight (the range uses those Morrell outdoor target bags). Keep 'em on the target? No problem. Anywhere consistently near the center? Nope.

And it's too bad we don't have the adult participation locally that a lot of you have. I'd definitely like to have a few more of us old folks out there. Especially recurve shooters, but unfortunately I haven't even seen a decent recurve shooter in my six months of shooting. Thank God for youtube.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow said:


> Are the score adjustments are for both JOAD and AAP?


Yes.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

MikeG said:


> Shooting this format outside at longer distances sounds like a blast, but unfortunately our local JOAD program is limited to indoor shooting. It's just as well in my case though. I still need to learn what I'm doing with this thing. I'll occasionally shoot a few at 40 yds at our outdoor range and tried 50 for the first time tonight (the range uses those Morrell outdoor target bags). Keep 'em on the target? No problem. Anywhere consistently near the center? Nope.
> 
> And it's too bad we don't have the adult participation locally that a lot of you have. I'd definitely like to have a few more of us old folks out there. Especially recurve shooters, but unfortunately I haven't even seen a decent recurve shooter in my six months of shooting. Thank God for youtube.


Too many JOAD programs are limited to indoors. It's very unfortunate. Archery is an OUTDOOR sport! But finding a space in a metro area, and then convincing folks that archery is SAFE there, are two nearly impossible tasks. 

And it sounds like Nebraska is another target archery black hole, like much of the central U.S.

Isn't it interesting (and ironic) that in the parts of the country where there is more available space, archers tend to shoot shorter distances?


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Too many JOAD programs are limited to indoors. It's very unfortunate. Archery is an OUTDOOR sport! But finding a space in a metro area, and then convincing folks that archery is SAFE there, are two nearly impossible tasks.
> 
> And it sounds like Nebraska is another target archery black hole, like much of the central U.S.
> 
> Isn't it interesting (and ironic) that in the parts of the country where there is more available space, archers tend to shoot shorter distances?


That is ironic. Also ironic is the opposite. Our program is in the middle of a dense, major city and limited to outdoor only (though we shoot the indoor *distances* during indoor season, we just shoot them outdoors.)


----------



## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

mahgnillig said:


> It's a pretty small range, so it makes sense to split the groups. Plus I think only one of the adults has a kid in JOAD. To be honest, as a non parent, I like that the groups are split... I don't have to watch my tongue


I have to agree with you. Our programs are split kids and adults.

Some of our AA Shooters are parents and even though archery IS a family sport, even those parents enjoy a night of adult shooting without their kids.

I coach the kids at least 5 days a week, the adults get Wednesday Nights.

I enjoy the kids and ours are very well behaved BUT still I enjoy a night of not having to watch my tounge as well!!


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

If we had JOAD 5 nights a week, I would agree that a dedicated "adult" night would be a good thing. 

In the fall, I have been running an indoor league where we just shoot. No coaching, no time spent fiddling with equipment. Everyone is expected to be self-sufficient, and to be there to compete. This is a nice change of pace for sure.


----------



## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> Too many JOAD programs are limited to indoors. It's very unfortunate. Archery is an OUTDOOR sport! But finding a space in a metro area, and then convincing folks that archery is SAFE there, are two nearly impossible tasks.
> 
> *And it sounds like Nebraska is another target archery black hole, like much of the central U.S.
> 
> Isn't it interesting (and ironic) that in the parts of the country where there is more available space, archers tend to shoot shorter distances?*


This certainly seems to be the case. The TRAD/BB participation numbers in state archery events aren't very encouraging by looking at recent results. I'll probably enter a few of them this year just for the exposure and to see what else/who else is out there. 

Hunting and 3D are big out here. Lots of compound bows and camouflage, which doesn't bother me a bit even though I haven't worn camo since retiring from the Air Force. But the Nebraska outdoor scene might invade more sensitive folks' "safe spaces.":tongue:


----------



## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

The Adult Achievement pins were the whole reason I joined USA Archery! The first time I shot a "red pin" score, that's when I decided to sign up. I spend more time shooting indoors, so I'm up to yellow. I seldom get to shoot outdoor distances at all, so I'm only up to white there.

Now, the way our club does this is that you can't "skip" pins. In other words, even if you shoot a 250 (indoor red pin), you can only earn your red pin if you already have your blue pin. If you only had your black pin, the 250 would get you a blue pin and you'd have to shoot again in an attempt to earn your red pen. Is that USA Archery wide, or is it just us?

I love the hexagonal design of the Adult Achievement pins. It makes them seem "deluxe" in comparison to the JOAD pins.

Another way to get some exposure to competition without having to travel to competitions is to participate in USA Archery's quarterly "mail-in" tournaments. Click on the link below for more information.

http://www.teamusa.org/usa-archery/events/mail-in-tournaments


----------



## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

Here are the pins if some people haven't seen them. I call it archery swag.


----------



## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

StudentOfTheBow said:


> Now, the way our club does this is that you can't "skip" pins. In other words, even if you shoot a 250 (indoor red pin), you can only earn your red pin if you already have your blue pin. If you only had your black pin, the 250 would get you a blue pin and you'd have to shoot again in an attempt to earn your red pen. Is that USA Archery wide, or is it just us?


We also do this, one pin at a time.


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

StudentOfTheBow said:


> Now, the way our club does this is that you can't "skip" pins. In other words, even if you shoot a 250 (indoor red pin), you can only earn your red pin if you already have your blue pin. If you only had your black pin, the 250 would get you a blue pin and you'd have to shoot again in an attempt to earn your red pen. Is that USA Archery wide, or is it just us?


That is the case for the club here.


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

granite14 said:


> Here are the pins if some people haven't seen them. I call it archery swag.


Nice! I am only up to white.


----------



## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

So if I were a member of the program, shooting that 202 (barebow/traditional) on Monday night would have netted me a green pin since I don't have any pins?


----------



## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

MikeG said:


> So if I were a member of the program, shooting that 202 (barebow/traditional) on Monday night would have netted me a green pin since I don't have any pins?


Yep. 'Fraid so. For people who spent a couple of years practicing before every joining the program, that can be a little bothersome.


But, I assume, you _could_ do this:

The scores I use below assume you're doing indoor, barebow on the adult program. If you're doing something else, adjust accordingly.

Since the green pin only needs 70 points, when you go into to shoot for your pins, as soon as you hit 70 points, see if your coach will let you just mark all the other arrows on that score card as "M". Then you can get another score card and start scoring for your purple. As soon as you hit 100 points, BAM! You've got purple. Mark all the others as "M" and start again.

In the time it took you to shoot that 202, you could easily shoot a 70 and a 100. If you have time, you can no doubt pull off a 120 and get your gray pin.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

StudentOfTheBow said:


> But, I assume, you _could_ do this:
> 
> The scores I use below assume you're doing indoor, barebow on the adult program. If you're doing something else, adjust accordingly.
> 
> ...


That's cute, but I'd say no. One pin per 10 consecutive end qualifying round indoors or 6 end qualifying round outdoors - no splitting scores. You can shoot for two pins by splitting a 60 arrow indoor competition round in half. But I'd say no games like above.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> New BB distances and scores are forthcoming. There won't be a 70M requirement since we don't shoot 70 at Nationals in the BB division.
> 
> The recommendations we sent them were to increase the outdoor scores and decrease the indoor scores for BB. My student is very glad he got his gold olympian pin under these scores.


Just thinking I may need to make a graph of the various scores the AAP outdoor BB have gone through since 2008. When USA Archery first added the Olympian pins to the adult program in 2010 to earn BB Gold Olympian you had to shoot 310..........at 70! :mg:









And that jump from 200 on an 80cm at 30m to 225 on an 80cm at 50m, that's a pretty harsh jump. But not as bad as having to beat the 70m STAR FITA record by 34 points to earn Gold Olympian (only needed to beat it by 4 points to get yellow... :embara: )


----------



## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

In theory you are supposed to be shooting for pins under "simulated tournament conditions" which would mean "technically", Double scored ends with timing.. 

RE skipping pins,

This from the FAQ document on USA Archery's website.

===================

Every archer will start at the beginning of the scoring matrix and work their way through each star pin.

===================


----------



## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

The kids like getting those pins. Some of our adults are even more excited. I thought it was just our group that acted like that about their pins. But I see by this thread that were not alone. 
We also must earn our pins in order and not skip ahead because of a good score.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

XForce Girl said:


> The kids like getting those pins. Some of our adults are even more excited. I thought it was just our group that acted like that about their pins. But I see by this thread that were not alone.
> We also must earn our pins in order and not skip ahead because of a good score.


Yup, at our biannual "pin party" the adults are often just as, if not more excited, than the kids are. I think it's great! What other sport does this for adults?

We don't skip pins in our club. Mostly because that's how the rules are written. However, I have challenged a number of my archers by seeing how few arrows they can shoot to earn their next pin before moving on to their next distance. In other words, if a new archer is capable of shooting a 250, but only needs a 150 for the pin they are working on, I will challenge them to see if they can earn their 150 with just 20 arrows - or something like that. Once they have the score they need, I immediately let them start practicing on the next further distance so they can prepare for their next achievement pin. But we do stay within the rules of the game.

I've had more than one scorecard turned in by new JOAD/AA shooters that only had 20 or 25 scored arrows on it. It was enough for their next pin, and I see no reason to make them shoot all their arrows in one session at that same target and distance when they are headed for bigger things anyway.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> *I've had more than one scorecard turned in by new JOAD/AA shooters that only had 20 or 25 scored arrows on it*. It was enough for their next pin, and I see no reason to make them shoot all their arrows in one session at that same target and distance when they are headed for bigger things anyway.


I'd agree that is their choice whether to skip the rest of the arrows. They earned the score. They could do that at a competition (though I'd expect that they wouldn't). So it meets the "tournament like" conditions intent. And I can see why a JOAD might want to skip, say, the rest of the 15 meter shoot and just start practicing at the 20 meter bale instead. Not as much of an issue for adults, though, since it is 30M and 50M (with optional 70 (60 in the next adjustment?)) and not as much need to start practicing at a different distance. And not so much of an issue for indoor, where finishing the full 10 ends is also practice for the next pin. :dontknow:


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Yup, at our biannual "pin party" the adults are often just as, if not more excited, than the kids are. I think it's great! What other sport does this for adults?


Adults are, to a certain extent, just larger kids with, perhaps, less everyday opportunity for play in their lives. The AAP lets adults be focused and play bit at the same time.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Not to mention all the benefits of giving the adults something to focus on besides their kid's score or the latest gossip behind the shooting line. LOL.

Since the advent of the AA program, our JOAD program has become more of an archery "club" than a youth training program, and I think that's great. The same coaching goes on, but the families come and go as a unit, with plenty to talk about. The kids get to comment on their parent's shooting for a change, instead of just a one-way narrative of opinion by the parent on the kid's performance that day (which kids get very, very tired of by the way).


----------



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I've had more than one scorecard turned in by new JOAD/AA shooters that only had 20 or 25 scored arrows on it. It was enough for their next pin, and I see no reason to make them shoot all their arrows in one session at that same target and distance when they are headed for bigger things anyway.


I see this differently. 1) It is disrespectful to stop shooting mid way through the round. 2) It creates a stigma for those shooters left. Kinda like, hey you lesser skilled kids keep shooting while I bask in my glory. 

It sort of reminds me of those who choose to exit church right after receiving communion. And I have been guilty of it in the past. Compete with your peers. Shoot all your arrows. If you shoot well and earn your pin in less than 36 arrows, push yourself to new excellence. I think you've said here often John, allow yourself to exceed your current threshold. You'll never know how high your personal best might have been if you quit after 25 arrows.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

midwayarcherywi said:


> I see this differently. 1) It is disrespectful to stop shooting mid way through the round. 2) It creates a stigma for those shooters left. Kinda like, hey you lesser skilled kids keep shooting while I bask in my glory.
> 
> It sort of reminds me of those who choose to exit church right after receiving communion. And I have been guilty of it in the past. Compete with your peers. Shoot all your arrows. If you shoot well and earn your pin in less than 36 arrows, push yourself to new excellence. I think you've said here often John, allow yourself to exceed your current threshold. You'll never get your personal best if you quit after 25 arrows.


Interesting point. I'd also say that the early Outdoor JOAD pins are the best early chance for JOAD archers to earn a 6 Gold pin - so why throw that away (assuming they didn't get it with the arrows that earned them the needed score.)

Our archers keep shooting after they get their score. It messes up our statistics if they don't, and I don't think it occurs to most to just quit mid shoot.


----------



## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

I don't let the kids quit shooting after enough points to earn their pin. Just like I don't let them quit if they are shooting poorly and can't get enough points to get their pin.
They're scorecards must be complete to earn a pin.


----------



## Shooterdad (Apr 30, 2014)

My daughter shoots JOAD and refuses to look at her total until she has completed the end.


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

MikeG said:


> So if I were a member of the program, shooting that 202 (barebow/traditional) on Monday night would have netted me a green pin since I don't have any pins?


In our club the first 3 pins you can get it at one tournament. So if you score 202 (barebow /trad) then you will get green, purple, and grey pins. Higher pins can only be earned one tournament / pin shoot at a time.


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

granite14 said:


> Here are the pins if some people haven't seen them. I call it archery swag.


The lanyard / ribbon here is brown, which is the Adult Indoor Traditional, mine is green - Adult Indoor Barebow / Basic Compound. I shoot barebow recurve. What does Traditional mean from USA Archery perspective?


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Osmanthus said:


> In our club the first 3 pins you can get it at one tournament. So if you score 202 (barebow /trad) then you will get green, purple, and grey pins. Higher pins can only be earned one tournament / pin shoot at a time.


The JOAD handbook allows you to skip the green pin (but, while it doesn't specify this, I'd say you don't *get* the green pin, either, you can simply go on to earn the next pin without it), but the intent of the qualifying rounds is to be similar to competition, where you shoot a whole round and see how you measure up at the end. You earn each pin 30, or 36 arrows at a time. Your method for the first three pins is a deliberate method of skirting this intent. I understand why you'd want to let people test through the easy pins, but the grind of earning them individually in sequence, one per qualifying round, is *deliberate*. It is a feature, not a bug. While it isn't a huge deal, I'd say your club shouldn't be doing what you are doing.


----------



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

One pin at a time is the way to go, in my opinion. We would have lots of shooters earning the first 3 or 4 pins immediately and then hit a wall. Frustration then builds and shooters may become disinterested. If you earn them one at a shoot, you become invested in the process and will become hooked on grinding through when you do hit a ceiling.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Osmanthus said:


> The lanyard / ribbon here is brown, which is the Adult Indoor Traditional, mine is green - Adult Indoor Barebow / Basic Compound. I shoot barebow recurve. What does Traditional mean from USA Archery perspective?


The AAP has gone through multiple iterations. Back in 2008 the barebow category was "Longbow" - and was undefined. In 2010, they made the AAP separate from JOAD, and changed the "longbow" category to "traditional" - which was not defined. Later, IIRC, it was defined by the rules of the USAA trad championship. "Traditional" was superceeded in 2013 with the AAP/JOAD maxtrix overhauls, and rechristened "Barebow/Basic Compound/Traditional". Some people, including myself, still have the trad lanyard. There was no "longbow" lanyard.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

midwayarcherywi said:


> One pin at a time is the way to go, in my opinion. We would have lots of shooters earning the first 3 or 4 pins immediately and then hit a wall. Frustration then builds and shooters may become disinterested. If you earn them one at a shoot, you become invested in the process and will become hooked on grinding through when you do hit a ceiling.


Has your view of the pins program changed over the years? IIRC you weren't much enamored of it in years past.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

midwayarcherywi said:


> I see this differently. 1) It is disrespectful to stop shooting mid way through the round. 2) It creates a stigma for those shooters left. Kinda like, hey you lesser skilled kids keep shooting while I bask in my glory.
> 
> It sort of reminds me of those who choose to exit church right after receiving communion. And I have been guilty of it in the past. Compete with your peers. Shoot all your arrows. If you shoot well and earn your pin in less than 36 arrows, push yourself to new excellence. I think you've said here often John, allow yourself to exceed your current threshold. You'll never know how high your personal best might have been if you quit after 25 arrows.


Let's not get too uptight over a 15 year old shooting at 20 meters.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

XForce Girl said:


> I don't let the kids quit shooting after enough points to earn their pin. Just like I don't let them quit if they are shooting poorly and can't get enough points to get their pin.
> They're scorecards must be complete to earn a pin.


When they do this - and it's not often - they do complete their scorecard. They just have 16 consecutive misses. 

Look, we don't have a lot of daylight on Monday evenings, and sometimes I get to see these kids for 2 hours/month if they are lucky. I'm not going to have them spend half that time shooting at a distance they have easily mastered just to prove a point. 

Believe me, in real life, this is not a big deal at all. 

Ease up folks. This is also supposed to be fun. Let's not forget that. 

John


----------



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Haha! I get it, but it sets a poor example for our other shooters. It's something I prefer to enforce universally.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Let's not get too uptight over a 15 year old shooting at 20 meters.


I wouldn't say get uptight, but I would invite them to come back when they have the time and inclination to shoot a whole round and then they can earn their pin. You don't finish the round, you don't earn the pin. Just enough doesn't cut it. If it isn't already ingrained 15 is THE time to be teaching them sportsmanship and all those other things we expect of our junior athletes... and future Olympians?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> but it sets a poor example for our other shooters


If you were at our club, and saw this happen real-time, it would make more sense. Trust me.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Let's not get too uptight over a 15 year old shooting at 20 meters.


Hey, the really close distances can be a good skill to have at novelty field archery shoots. You would not believe how many compounders didn't have sight pins set for ten feet


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

bobnikon said:


> I wouldn't say get uptight, but I would invite them to come back when they have the time and inclination to shoot a whole round and then they can earn their pin. You don't finish the round, you don't earn the pin. Just enough doesn't cut it. If it isn't already ingrained 15 is THE time to be teaching them sportsmanship and all those other things we expect of our junior athletes... and future Olympians?


Oh good lord. I knew I opened a can of OCD worms when I wrote that. 

We're talking about something that happens literally 5 times in a whole year. At our last pin party, we awarded nearly 60 pins. Of those, fewer than 4 or 5 were earned with less than a full scorecard. And you might have kids that have more time to devote to archery than I have. Finding 2-3 hours a month for them between baseball, 4-H, church activities and spending time with their families is a challenge. I'm not going to go out of my way to create any artificial barriers to them enjoying JOAD. USArchery already does a good enough job at that as it is.

Let me ask you something. If you go to a tournament and you shoot 20 arrows instead of 36, do you not get a score for those 20 arrows? Of course you do. 

This is no different. 

And I'm done on this topic before I allow AT to get my blood pressure up again.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Oh good lord.


LW you can do that all you want, but you aren't always right. Sorry, but just because it is your way doesn't mean it is the correct way. You basically badger away at people until they give up if they don't share your point of view, but I don't think that is a good way to teach kids to behave. But your club, your rules. Do as you will with it. 

Cheers


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

bobnikon said:


> LW you can do that all you want, but you aren't always right. Sorry, but just because it is your way doesn't mean it is the correct way. You basically badger away at people until they give up if they don't share your point of view, but I don't think that is a good way to teach kids to behave. But your club, your rules. Do as you will with it.
> 
> Cheers


You didn't answer my question (naturally). So you're saying I am wrong? Fine. Then please explain what rule is being broken if you can, Bob. I'm all ears. If you go to a tournament and shoot 20 arrows, you get to keep that score for 20 arrows. So who is wrong here?



> You don't finish the round, you don't earn the pin. Just enough doesn't cut it. If it isn't already ingrained 15 is THE time to be teaching them sportsmanship and all those other things we expect of our junior athletes... and future Olympians?


Your club, your rules. But "just because it is your way doesn't mean it is the correct way."


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

Warbow said:


> The AAP has gone through multiple iterations. Back in 2008 the barebow category was "Longbow" - and was undefined. In 2010, they made the AAP separate from JOAD, and changed the "longbow" category to "traditional" - which was not defined. Later, IIRC, it was defined by the rules of the USAA trad championship. "Traditional" was superceeded in 2013 with the AAP/JOAD maxtrix overhauls, and rechristened "Barebow/Basic Compound/Traditional". Some people, including myself, still have the trad lanyard. There was no "longbow" lanyard.


Thank you for the explanation Warbow! I get it now.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Well, who would have thought there'd be an entirely new hot button topic on AT? I'll just add it to the list:

1) What should the rules be for barebow?
2) Mechanical vs. Fixed Blade broadheads?
3) Is it ok to quit shooting a qualifying round once you reach your needed pin score?

I'll chime in on this. I think that since you can choose not to shoot arrows in a competition, it is legit to allow JOAD shooters to do the same in a qualifying round. But, my preference would be for people to finish shooting the entire round, which is what pretty much *everybody* does in competitions. How many see if they've likely beaten their nearest competitor and then quit early? I'm not the DOS for our club so finishing the round isn't something that I'm in a position to require, nor do I know if I would or not, nor do I know whether it would be proper to do so.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> You didn't answer my question (naturally). So you're saying I am wrong? Fine. Then please explain what rule is being broken if you can, Bob. I'm all ears. If you go to a tournament and shoot 20 arrows, you get to keep that score for 20 arrows. So who is wrong here?


Actually LW, I responded to your post before you went back and editted it. What I quoted was all that was posted when I hit reply. But nice try... Again, you are very good at expanding things beyond what was posted. And NOW you want to stay within the rules??? What about protesting what you don't believe in? Do you believe it shows good character to quit when you have done enough and can't benefit by doing any more??? Good character lesson you are teaching...


----------



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Warbow said:


> Has your view of the pins program changed over the years? IIRC you weren't much enamored of it in years past.


I can't remember if I was or was not. I know I've never been a fan of the USAA mail in tournaments. I think the pin shoots have been really popular at our club and the kids have always placed value on earning their pins. So if I was a critic in the past (and I really don't remember if I was or not, all though I don't think so) I am a proponent now!


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Do you believe it shows good character to quit when you have done enough and can't benefit by doing any more??? Good character lesson you are teaching...


Another Good Lord moment.  Now who's badgering?

And you still haven't answered my question. 

If you go to a tournament and score 20 arrows but not the next 16, what score do you get?

It's important because following ACTUAL rules could be a character question.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Another Good Lord moment.  Now who's badgering?
> 
> And you still haven't answered my question.
> 
> ...


Like wearing Camo if it isn't allowed by actual rules... Is this not the definition of hypocrisy???

I will answer your question, that you asked after I posted, happily. In a tournament, if a kid purposely quit early and filled their card in with zero's I would have to give them the prize if they had the high score. If not in a sanctioned tournament environment, I would have to cross that bridge when it came. I would certainly, with their parents present, let them know that I didn't approve of the practice and that it wouldn't be welcomed at my range. 

So, your turn, answer my question.

Do you truly believe that behavior embodies the character that your range is trying to build in your young athletes?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> In a tournament, if a kid purposely quit early and filled their card in with zero's I would have to give them the prize if they had the high score.


Okay. Thank you.

Now I'm done here.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Okay. Thank you.
> 
> Now I'm done here.


Dude, you aren't playing fair. You didn't answer the question.

Do you truly believe that behavior embodies the character that your range is trying to build in your young athletes?

Actually either of my questions... curious that, not unexpected, just curious



limbwalker said:


> *It's important because following ACTUAL rules could be a character question. *


Like wearing Camo if it isn't allowed by actual rules... Is this not the definition of hypocrisy???


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Bob, if it makes you feel better, you can be the first one to turn me in when I show up on the field with a camo finger sling.

As far as character goes, there was this fellow named Martin Luther King Jr. who promoted civil disobedience as a way of standing up for what is right. You might of heard of him. I believe it is a great lesson in character to follow his example when it is needed, and I often work to build that kind of character in the young athletes I work with. It is a reason why many of their parents drive them an hour or more one way to come shoot with us each week.

Okay, now I'm really done here.  LOL. And I have yet another on my ignore list.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Bob, if it makes you feel better, you can be the first one to turn me in when I show up on the field with a camo finger sling.


Just answer the questions. 

I have said before I don't care about camo. I said it was about the rules... Ironically now you are hiding under the umbrella of rules. You have said if a rule doesn't meet with your approval you would disregard it... So, answer my two questions, and we can call a truce. Only fair, I answered yours. Which of course you subsequently responded to leaving out the meat of the answer...


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Nice, adding to a post again after I answer yours... let me go back and read what you added, so I can't get in trouble for not addressing it.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Bob, if it makes you feel better, you can be the first one to turn me in when I show up on the field with a camo finger sling.
> 
> As far as character goes, there was this fellow named Martin Luther King Jr. who promoted civil disobedience as a way of standing up for what is right. You might of heard of him. I believe it is a great lesson in character to follow his example when it is needed, and I often work to build that kind of character in the young athletes I work with. It is a reason why many of their parents drive them an hour or more one way to come shoot with us each week.
> 
> Okay, now I'm really done here.  LOL. And I have yet another on my ignore list.


Wow, did you really just invoke Martin Luther King Jr. I am sure he, his family, and his followers would love to know that their movement has been trivialized to camo... Well done, and I am out. I can't argue with those leaps of logic.

And I am honored to be on the ignore list of the great LW.


----------



## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

As an archer and, more importantly, the father of a JOAD shooter, I think the pin program is outstanding. It gives the kids something to work toward every time they shoot and offers them a reward for progress along the way. Whoever thought it up was a genius.

I also like the latitude it allows coaches. My daughter’s JOAD group had their first outdoor season last year (they’re a new club). Some of the kids were already very good shooters, so their coach decided to have them shoot at 50m right off the bat. He didn’t see any reason to have kids shoot a 122cm face at 15m to earn a pin when they were capable of tight groups at 50m. He even had his eight-year-old son shoot at 50m (that kid is scary good, by the way, and outshoots a lot of adults).

Their first pin shoot last year I decided to set up my camera downrange and take photos and video of her JOAD group with a wireless remote (with the coach’s consent, of course). That took a lot faith, putting a couple grand worth of photography gear down range. But I figured the only way it’d get shot was if one of them aimed at it. One of the photos is below.

The local club that does the outdoor pin shoots runs an incredible program. Everything is by the book and the kids get their pins right there on the spot. It’s so cool to see little kids and teenagers, new archers and experienced shooter, all on the same line trying to reach their individual goals. Honestly, I think the JOAD program and their pin awards is one of the best things I’ve ever seen in youth archery.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Their first pin shoot last year I decided to set up my camera downrange and take photos and video of her JOAD group with a wireless remote (with the coach’s consent, of course). That took a lot faith, putting a couple grand worth of photography gear down range. But I figured the only way it’d get shot was if one of them aimed at it. One of the photos is below.
> 
> ...


Ha! I've risked a GoPro downrange to look back at the JOAD shooters, but it wasn't mine :wink: 
(I still didn't want it damaged, of course.)



J. Wesbrock said:


> I also like the latitude it allows coaches. My daughter’s JOAD group had their first outdoor season last year (they’re a new club). Some of the kids were already very good shooters, so their coach decided to have them shoot at 50m right off the bat. He didn’t see any reason to have kids shoot a 122cm face at 15m to earn a pin when they were capable of tight groups at 50m. He even had his eight-year-old son shoot at 50m (that kid is scary good, by the way, and outshoots a lot of adults).


So, did they have to shoot the green pin, 15 meter score at 50 meters?


----------



## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Warbow,

Yes, he had them shoot at 50m for their gren pins.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Warbow,
> 
> Yes, he had them shoot at 50m for their gren pins.


And 90 meters for Yellow?


----------



## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

LOL! I think he kept the more experienced shooters at 50m for everything. His JOAD program is all compounds sans for one barebow archer. Most of them practice at 50m on the 80cm half face. Those kids are crazy good. One of them has his gold olympian pin and make the JDT.


----------



## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

Warbow said:


> Well, who would have thought there'd be an entirely new hot button topic on AT? I'll just add it to the list:
> 
> 1) What should the rules be for barebow?
> 2) Mechanical vs. Fixed Blade broadheads?
> 3) Is it ok to quit shooting a qualifying round once you reach your needed pin score?


Geez...and my original intention starting this thread was only to tip my cap to the JOAD AA program. Yikes! 

But starting off with green or blue pins doesn't matter to me. I enjoyed shooting in that environment.

I guess the next step is to get USAA and NFAA memberships since NFAA is the governing body for our state events. I'm not Mr Moneybags by any means, but both organizations seem to be doing good things for the sport.


----------



## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

MikeG said:


> Geez...and my original intention starting this thread was only to tip my cap to the JOAD AA program. Yikes!
> 
> But starting off with green or blue pins doesn't matter to me. I enjoyed shooting in that environment.
> 
> I guess the next step is to get USAA and NFAA memberships since NFAA is the governing body for our state events. I'm not Mr Moneybags by any means, but both organizations seem to be doing good things for the sport.


If you're just interested in tournaments, there's no need to join both USA Archery and NFAA. The two organizations have a reciprocal agreement allowing members of either organization to compete in the other's tournaments. So you only need to join one.

If you're a USA Archery member, then the NFAA tournament entry forms typically have a space for your USA Archery member number. If you are an NFAA member, then for any USA Archery tournament in which you want to compete, you can go online a get a _free_ temporary membership for that tournament.

To take part in the Adult Achievement program (i.e. the pins), I think you DO have to be a USA Archery member.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Honestly, I think the JOAD program and their pin awards is one of the best things I’ve ever seen in youth archery.


I agree, and if the NFAA had a coaching and youth achievement program, I doubt I would have ever got involved in USArchery in the first place. It was through my older kid's JOAD program that I learned about target archery, even though I was shooting NFAA Traditional in leagues at the time.


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

Warbow said:


> The JOAD handbook allows you to skip the green pin (but, while it doesn't specify this, I'd say you don't *get* the green pin, either, you can simply go on to earn the next pin without it), but the intent of the qualifying rounds is to be similar to competition, where you shoot a whole round and see how you measure up at the end. You earn each pin 30, or 36 arrows at a time. Your method for the first three pins is a deliberate method of skirting this intent. I understand why you'd want to let people test through the easy pins, but the grind of earning them individually in sequence, one per qualifying round, is *deliberate*. It is a feature, not a bug. While it isn't a huge deal, I'd say your club shouldn't be doing what you are doing.


I would be fine with one pin at a time even for the first 3 pins. For adults it seems that it is harder to just get the first 3 pins. It took me 3 tournaments to get to gray (didn't get any, got green, then purple and gray). So it "saved" me 1 tournament beng able to get purple and gray together. On the other hand, my 11-year-old son got all 3 in one tournament, and he did that twice, once for barebow (mini Genesis) and another for compound.

However it is done with the earlier pins, it gets harder and harder to qualify for the higher pins.


----------



## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

The early pins are super easy to earn for most kids. However not for all of them.
This is why I make them complete their round even if they earn the pin half way through. It not good for the moral of the lesser shooters to have kids walk off the line when they have enough points and leave the beginners there to finish while the others watch.
We are a team and nobody gets special consideration. We work together and nobody is a quitter.
That being said, I do try to get the kids to the longer distances as soon as possible. If I feel they are competent to earn their pin at a longer distance I encourage them to do so. They will end up shooting that distance eventually so why not?


----------



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

XForce Girl said:


> The early pins are super easy to earn for most kids. However not for all of them.
> This is why I make them complete their round even if they earn the pin half way through. It not good for the moral of the lesser shooters to have kids walk off the line when they have enough points and leave the beginners there to finish while the others watch.
> We are a team and nobody gets special consideration. We work together and nobody is a quitter.
> That being said, I do try to get the kids to the longer distances as soon as possible. If I feel they are competent to earn their pin at a longer distance I encourage them to do so. They will end up shooting that distance eventually so why not?


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I don't think anyone's 'wrong' here - circumstances of time, place, and the archer(s) in question should be considered in coming to the best course of action/expectation for the archer in question. I've played Solomon on both sides of this street in the past, and believe that in each case that the chosen side of the street for that instance was the most appropriate for that kid/that situation.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I thought this thread was about the Adult Achievement program.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> I thought this thread was about the Adult Achievement program.


Haha - I just looked at the title - you're right! Between this thread's meandering (now partly my fault) and the barebow and camo threads, I can barely remember how to drive my car to the house.

Doesn't anyone have a question any more about the clicker? Or the plunger? I could use a 'simple to see/solve thread' for a vacation break ...


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

No doubt.

Arguing "morality" on the internet is the true definition of insanity.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> No doubt.
> 
> Arguing "morality" on the internet is the true definition of insanity.


One of my favorite cartoons of all time ...


----------



## ClanLee (Oct 4, 2013)

Reviving an old thread... but a relevant question.

Our club is starting the Adult Pin program and I have a question regarding the 6-Gold pin.

If I were to shoot both indoor and outdoor in Olympic Recurve, could I earn the 6-Gold pin for both? Or do you only get one 6-Gold pin per archer?


----------



## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

I'm not entirely sure. I would suspect you could get one for both indoor and outdoor. I suspect this is one of those things that is left up to the discretion of the club's achievement director.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

The handbook doesn't seem to specify. But I do think that the 6 gold pin would look lovely at the top of each of the lanyards that it was earned for.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

ClanLee said:


> Reviving an old thread... but a relevant question.
> 
> Our club is starting the Adult Pin program and I have a question regarding the 6-Gold pin.
> 
> If I were to shoot both indoor and outdoor in Olympic Recurve, could I earn the 6-Gold pin for both? Or do you only get one 6-Gold pin per archer?


That's a very good question. Since they are different targets, I'm not sure why you couldn't earn a 6-gold pin on both. I think that's a decision the program leader can make.


----------



## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

I've given the pin separately for indoors and outdoors. I didn't even look it up or ask. It just seemed logical.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

So the 6-gold pin can be given outdoors for every target distance? Or is it just for the max distance at your age group?


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

iArch said:


> So the 6-gold pin can be given outdoors for every target distance? Or is it just for the max distance at your age group?


Not specified in the handbook. My pragmatic take is one per lanyard rather than one per distance. That being said, this just isn't a problem that comes up for us. I know our Director of shoot would love to hand out more of the 6 gold pins and have the problem of deciding how many of them to give away. I envy the clubs for which this could be a problem.


----------



## ClanLee (Oct 4, 2013)

Thank you for the replies, I think I've changed the mind of our pin program director and convinced them of the 6-Gold pin per ribbon.

Another question, for the Gold, Silver and Bronze pins, are they per discipline or are they per ribbon like the 6-Gold pin? Can you earn more than one set of these pins? Again, looking through the club handbook, I didn't find any mention of it.

http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Archery/May 2015/Final Club Handbook.pdf

Thanks in advance.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The Olympian pins are per ribbon. You can be a Gold Olympian outdoors and a Bronze Olympian indoors. I have a student with both of those designations.

IMO, the 6-gold should be per pin as well, but that's just my opinion.


----------

