# Has it ever just clicked and your shooting went from average to awesome ?



## CASHMONEY (Oct 12, 2006)

When you decide to get a GOOD coach....


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## legion_archery (Mar 4, 2014)

It might just "click" for a short time but to be competitive and never stop "clicking" it takes hours of practice per week and not just practice where you shoot some arrows, it takes serious hard working practice! 

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## pbuck (Mar 30, 2010)

When I joined AT I instantly went from pie plate sized groups to 2” at 80 yds. [emoji1360]


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

It clicked once about 40 years ago but not for the last 10 years.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Confidence was the click for me......Entered my first IAA State sanctioned event, their 2003 3D Championship. Yeah, was running with the "big dogs" of the circuit I ran, but now I was up against what I thought were top end shooters. Wrong. In most cases they ain't dang bit better the average. I shot a 416 on 40 targets to take 2nd place in Adult Free Style. Me felt GOOD. Kevin Koch took 1st with a 432, which was a record. I tied his record the next year - 2004. 

I've done well at club and state sanctioned events over the years.

One thing, I started late in archery. I was 50 years old when I first picked up a compound bow. I was 54 years old when I shot the above 2003 IAA 3D Championship.


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## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

Definitely had it go the other way... Again just this morning as a matter of fact.


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## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

Yep. Last Tuesday I got rained out at work. Went to the shop to spend the afternoon shooting. Felt like I couldn’t make a bad shot. It felt like I had my release figured out and my form was perfect. I got almost every 12 ring I put my pin on, float had little to no movement. It felt surreal. Fast forward to yesterday. Shot a 3D tournament and it was one of my worst performances lol. Shot more 8’s than I ever have and 90% of them were less than an inch from the 12. 


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## lcaillo (Jan 5, 2014)

Absolutely. When I can train enough and my bow arm settles in, I start to be able to separate the release from everything else and my focus changes. I start to be able to see and take in more information while not having to react to it. It is like time slows down. But it does not happen unless I can train enough...and sustain that training.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> Absolutely. When I can train enough and my bow arm settles in, I start to be able to separate the release from everything else and my focus changes. I start to be able to see and take in more information while not having to react to it. It is like time slows down. But it does not happen unless I can train enough...and sustain that training.


I found if I focus on aiming and nothing else (no back tension, no follow through, no noise, no wind etc) my score goes way up. Keeping focused is key for me


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## Bretc36 (Jan 20, 2020)

Happens every year.. unfortunately it’s always after the season closes...


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

No. And nobody ever has nor will it ever happen to anyone. 

Trying to achieve the magic "click", after which you'll suddenly shoot like Jesse Broadwater, not only won't work, but the continuing disappointment of the inevitable crash-n-burns after the "good days" where you just couldn't miss and you think you've figured it all out will put you in the Rubber Room. So it's my personal suggestion to think about abandoning that method of getting better, and instead consider more proven methods. Among them just keep shooting your bow.

What can happen, though, is you might finally fix a chronic mistake, or find a better way to do something, etc., and there may be a small incremental improvement in your results. For example, for me a couple highlights were when I found the best way to hold my wrist in the strap of my release, or when I tried the technique of pushing the bow into the 10 ring with the bow hand during the final part of my shot. These were two ever-so-small "upgrades" in my shot that just ever-so-slightly improved my shot and tightened up my groups just a bit.

But that's about it. Getting better is a slow slog of lots of arrows through the bow and "small victories" I guess you might call them, as you gradually get better, stronger, find and fix problems and just generally get more practiced. That's the only way I've ever found to get better.

To get on the podium, don't ask me. But to outshoot yourself, it's best not to expect "quantum leaps" to happen very often. And even after major overhauls - like going to the surprise shot from command-shooting, say - you still have many many arrows to shoot before you start gaining altitude again.

lee.


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## lcaillo (Jan 5, 2014)

Actually, big leaps are very common among top athletes on their way up. Much more so than linear progress. 

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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

The only time anything approaching that ever came to me was maybe 40 years ago. At the time I was primarily a recurve (Olympic equipment) shooter, but in the winters I shot compound as a break and as a training aid. I developed severe punching target panic. I even remember the moment it hit, during a tournament. I shot something like a 298 (10-ring) first half and just dropped to the low 280s after the break. I tried hard to fix it, but rather than spending all my time fighting it, I put the compound away. Next indoor season, maybe 9-10 months later, I brought the compound out again, and the problem was just gone.

Once in awhile I see a relative beginner have a sudden epiphany either on their own or more often from something presented by a coach, and immediately improve by a huge margin, but I wouldn’t call it going from average to great.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

lcaillo said:


> Absolutely. When I can train enough and my bow arm settles in, I start to be able to separate the release from everything else and my focus changes. I start to be able to see and take in more information while not having to react to it. It is like time slows down. But it does not happen unless I can train enough...and sustain that training.


100%...with qualifications. For folks who have NEVER experienced "time slowing down"...these folks will say that just ain't possible. Then, you talk to the few folks who HAVE experienced "time slowing down", and everything just clicks for that session. So, lcaillo...I hear ya. Happened to me just once. It was simply amazing.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

nuts&bolts said:


> 100%...with qualifications. For folks who have NEVER experienced "time slowing down"...these folks will say that just ain't possible. Then, you talk to the few folks who HAVE experienced "time slowing down", and everything just clicks for that session. So, lcaillo...I hear ya. Happened to me just once. It was simply amazing.


I think this is called "In the zone". I can sometimes "slow down time" on the practice range but I'm to amped up during a tournament. Something I need to practice if that's possible


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

What is average? What is great?


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## lcaillo (Jan 5, 2014)

I prefer the terms elite and sub-elite. Elite is the very top in the world and everyone else is sub. For me that is in the Masters Division WA and we rarely hit the elite level in the USA but the mark for me is 330 outdoors. If John shoots with us outdoors this year we may see more of that level.

Another perspective on being in the "zone" that I like is the concept of the Flow State...https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Psychol...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=0061339202
It is based on some really solid research and fits with the experience of many top athletes.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

cbrunson said:


> What is average? What is great?


Funny. I read every single response and this was what I was thinking the whole time. Then I get to the bottom response and there it is.......

To the OP. cbrunson's questions were valid. For me, using my criteria of "average" and "great," I really doubt there is anyone posting here that is qualified to answer. I doubt there is a single "great" shooter that posts here. There are some really good ones. 

To speak to the title of your post you used the terms average to awesome instead of average to great. To that I could say yes. It was my experience, when I was about 15 years old when an NFAA Certified Coach (at that time it existed,) took me aside one night and taught me how to shoot a "surprise" release instead of a command release, at that age overnight I went from average to awesome. I say that because I believe teaching someone how to shoot a release properly vs improperly is one of the few things that can just "click" and transform a persons shooting from average to awesome overnight. Again, this is opinion and theory based on experience, certainly not on "greatness" cause I sure ain't that.


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## sublauxation (Nov 21, 2013)

I get that "click" sometimes but I don't call it that, I call it "enough time to practice."


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Here’s a “click” or (epiphany) if you will:

When struggling to shoot as well in competition as in practice, the common theme among the masses of average shooters is to try to figure out how to relax and “just shoot your shot”. But that only works after you’ve tanked, right?

Instead of trying to just do what you do in practice, pay attention to what and when you fall apart in the game. For me that has recently been softening up too much around the middle of the game. Weak shots are sneaky little buggers when you are dealing with nerves. Keeping strong and patient through the middle was my most recent discovery. 

You’ll find that there are several little things along the way than you learn, forget, re-learn, and forget again. I think the key is to be able to access the hints or clues in your form and sight picture before you let the shot go. You need to know what a good shot is. That one that hits behind the pin every time.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

lcaillo said:


> Actually, big leaps are very common among top athletes on their way up. Much more so than linear progress.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I'd still maintain a healthy skepticism of any and all claims to that effect. If for no other reason, that goes against the more doctrinaire idea that success is most dependent on steady, hard work with reduced expectations about quantum leaps in your progress. In several other activities where I reached a high level, that was certainly my experience.

Now, in saying that, sure, you can have punctuated improvements in your shot and scores after fixing a chronic problem, for example. Even I have had a couple noticeable improvements as I mentioned previously. 

But claims like last night it just all clicked and next day I was at Sarah Lopez's level..... well..... you know, just take that with a grain of salt. And similarly for other claims like it. Apply Bayesian reasoning to these claims and just be careful about accepting them without sufficient investigation.

I'm sure folks will come on and say they're tight with "top athletes" like Jesse and Reo and they reported overnight successes in their shooting after they discovered X, Y, and Z, and they got something we don't got, and so on, but again, this is AT. And you have to be careful about where your information comes from. 

Invoking Bayes again, it's usually better to rely on the more general experiences we have when it comes to getting really good at something, even archery. The quantum leap guys and gals are going to be the exception rather than the rule. So again, I wouldn't put much stock in this "it'll all click one day" method of getting better and I wouldn't promote it with a lot of gusto. Instead, I'd tend to favor The Old Fashioned Way of arrows through the bow first. I know, that's boring and unglamorous, but it's a lot closer to the truth of the matter. At least from the sources I'm familiar with, that's the best body of data we have when it comes to how do we get better in the most effective way possible. YMMV of course....

lee.


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## Boomer2094 (Aug 12, 2016)

I had to agree with Lee here, I think it does happen, but it would be more at the higher echelon level, like from good to great, but not from average to great...

I think a good example would be building a puzzle; The good shooter should have all the pieces needed to complete the puzzle, but didn't know how to put it together. When something "Clicked", They are able to put the pieces together and they now have a complete puzzle. Good to great.

But for the average shooter, they don't have all the pieces yet... They might also experience the "Click" moment, but they cannot complete the puzzle cause they don't have all the pieces yet. They may jump from Average to good, but Average to Great is not possible.

I have experienced many "Click" moment throughout my short (5 years) journey in Archery, I'm not great by any means, but as I practice and learn things about bow, arrows, tuning, etc, I collect the pieces that I need, and hopefully, sometimes in the future, I will have that Magical "Click" moment that will complete my archery puzzle.

Boomer


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## pherrley (Jan 24, 2015)

Start at 12:30 (or -41:15), Braden talks about a "click" moment

https://www.facebook.com/wing1440/videos/978544712311909/


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## lcaillo (Jan 5, 2014)

lees said:


> I'd still maintain a healthy skepticism of any and all claims to that effect. If for no other reason, that goes against the more doctrinaire idea that success is most dependent on steady, hard work with reduced expectations about quantum leaps in your progress. In several other activities where I reached a high level, that was certainly my experience.
> 
> Now, in saying that, sure, you can have punctuated improvements in your shot and scores after fixing a chronic problem, for example. Even I have had a couple noticeable improvements as I mentioned previously.
> 
> ...


I am not suggesting that improvements don't require lots of hard work and practice. What I have observed over years of teaching and training others in education, business, and in sport, is that those that put in the work don't follow a linear path to the top. They do make big jumps. It is not because they discover some magic, but many parts of their skill become very reliable and they start to get out of their own way.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

lcaillo said:


> I am not suggesting that improvements don't require lots of hard work and practice. What I have observed over years of teaching and training others in education, business, and in sport, is that those that put in the work don't follow a linear path to the top. They do make big jumps. It is not because they discover some magic, but many parts of their skill become very reliable and they start to get out of their own way.


I think that's what the promise of "it all just clicks" is though - something magical just happens on an exceptional day and forever after, you've moved onto another level of shooting or what have you. 

That's an entirely different thing from making rapid progress through the "normal channels" of finding and correcting errors, and then putting the work in. 

Might just be arguing semantics at this point, but that's what I read in the OP. 

On a side note, I experienced a non-linear increase in my shooting when I finally discovered the surprise shot some years ago after returning to compound from a long layoff. But it wasn't what I'd describe as a mysterious "click" where all the stars were aligned and I suddenly got better. In fact, I had to completely relearn an entirely new shot execution using a completely different release aid and all the rest. So I actually got worse for a little while. After that though I rapidly got a whole lot better mainly because I put in the work with lots of shafts through the bow. 

Not only that, I didn't become awesome either. I became what I'd call only competent, from a previous condition of pretty much hopelessly bad. If I were to return to competition, which I've finally decided just recently I'm not going to do, I'd still be literally years away from being competitive even after an almost quantum leap in my shooting after learning the surprise release. 

Then there's my recurve shooting, where nothing helps and I've remained hopeless. Yet I still am on the search for whatever in the hell it is I'm doing wrong and hopefully I'll find it someday.

lee.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

lcaillo said:


> ...but many parts of their skill become very reliable and they start to get out of their own way.


Everyone read this again slowly. ^^^^


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## lcaillo (Jan 5, 2014)

The rest of the story is that most of us, myself included, practice for years and get very good at the wrong habits. When something disrupts those habits and moves you in the right direction, you make leaps in performance. Don't be afraid to disrupt the patterns, but make sure that the change moves you toward your goal, not toward your comfort zone.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

pherrley said:


> Start at 12:30 (or -41:15), Braden talks about a "click" moment
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/wing1440/videos/978544712311909/



Lots of good info here, Thanks


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## allweld488 (Jan 23, 2020)

I found for me once my pin settles its all about the release for me.


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## Tblodg (Aug 28, 2019)

I had a pretty big jump 30 years ago when I dedicated a month to blank bailing with a Stan hinge and learned proper shot execution.

I got out of archery for 27 years and starting again at 52 years old my progress has been slow and steady until I had a recent small jump. Here is my progress on Vegas scores over the last several months with a bowhunter class setup:
Oct 2019 - 290/10X average (first dozen practice rounds after moving indoors)
Nov 2019 - 293/11X average (experimenting with d-loop length and anchor point)
Dec 2019 - 293/14X average (working on removing tension/anxiety)
Jan 2020 - 294/14X average (new stabilizers and experimenting with stabilizer weights)
Feb 2020 - 296/17X average (shot process becoming more automatic)

After a small improvement over 3 months during Nov, Dec, and Jan I can feel things coming together over the last few weeks. After 5,000 shots over these months the shot process is becoming more automatic and I can feel myself trusting the subconscious more and more. As mentioned and quoted above this is kind of “starting to get out of your own way”. 

My conscious thought process before and during a shot for most of the months above was:
- Anchor, both shoulders down, squeeze between shoulder blades
- Center peep, check bubble, relax everywhere except between shoulder blades
- Acquire target, begin to focus on spot
- Concentrate on spot and pull
- Continue concentration until arrow hits

Because things are becoming more automatic my mental program now consists of:
- “Stay strong and focus on spot all the way through”

Of course I am still doing all of the things above but I don’t have to think about them as much because they are starting to happen on their own. But like cbrunsion said some of those things will slip and I will have to recognize when they do. I did have half a session recently where things were not clicking and I realized I was not squeezing between the shoulder blades as much which allows me to relax as much as possible everywhere else. 

This is definitely not going from average to great but thought I would share my progress. I do not know if this is typical or not...


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## musky_ed (Nov 25, 2005)

Years ago, when shooting fingers, I went from good to really good in about two months. Used to shoot about three times a week, and upped my practice to 5-6 days a week. Not only upped my practice, but worked really hard on my form at that time also. My field league scores really shot up, with a much improved consistency and confidence. It felt really good to shoot right with and better than most of the the release shooters around me. Sad to say It went backwards even quicker, during one season of indoor league, when target panic set in.


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## Halberico (May 12, 2019)

rigginuts said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has ever had something that just clicked while they where shooting and say an average shooter went to a great shooter. If so, what was it that made it all come together for you ?


I am still waiting......LOL


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Tblodg said:


> I had a pretty big jump 30 years ago when I dedicated a month to blank bailing with a Stan hinge and learned proper shot execution.
> 
> I got out of archery for 27 years and starting again at 52 years old my progress has been slow and steady until I had a recent small jump. Here is my progress on Vegas scores over the last several months with a bowhunter class setup:
> Oct 2019 - 290/10X average (first dozen practice rounds after moving indoors)
> ...


I would argue that what you’re saying is exactly what OP is looking for, and a 296-17x is a respectable bow hunter average. Understanding that once you’ve concurred all of those little battles and you can trust your shot process, all you have to do is focus on putting it in the middle. To me that is a huge leap in progress. There are a lot of people who never get there. 

For me, the next step beyond that is knowing your shot process is solid and recognizing things that can be done with the equipment to improve the results down range. I suspect the problem most people have is jumping ahead to this part before having the shot process down. 

“A lot more practice” is only good if you are practicing the right way. You can’t just keep sending arrows down range with inconsistent form, execution, or loose aiming, and expect to improve. Actively seeking perfection in each of those areas and then combining them is the only way to build a shot process you can trust well enough to let happen on its own while you focus on the mental aspect of the game.


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## texasarcher2020 (Sep 14, 2018)

It happened for me at tournmanents when i was abble to joke and talk off the line, but be focused on the line. It made the sport fun again and made the stress of a tournament limited to only those 2/4 minutes, for 10-12 ends.


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