# Trykon & Winners Choice... Ouch!



## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Reverend said:


> Just set up a new Trykon XL, 28 in. with W/C 8125 strings and cables. After a few shots, slap! The string hits my arm, about 4 in. forward of brace position. I know I'm not shooting too long of a DL, and in fact, used to shoot 30 in. DL years ago with no slap. Now it consistently slaps me. The problem improved when I removed the string shocks, but it still hits... though not as much. Finally after fiddling with other string leeches, position, etc., I was able to remove the slap by installing an STS. And no, this isn't an STS commercial.:wink:
> Still, I'd like the option of removing the STS and not have it hit me.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this? I suspect it is too much string oscillation, but I just don't know how to remove it. My Ultratec with VT strings never did this. Are the WC 8125 more elastic than the VTX mat'l? And no again, this isn't a Vapor Trail commercial either


Loose string.... often happens when there isn't enough load on the string...


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

JAVI said:


> Loose string....



And the solution???

I measured the WC to Hoyt specs and put about 4 extra twists before putting it on. Do you recommend more twists?


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Reverend said:


> And the solution???
> 
> I measured the WC to Hoyt specs and put about 4 extra twists before putting it on. Do you recommend more twists?


Did you just put the string and cables on after measuring them to length or did you time &sync the cams then adjust the draw length and draw weight?


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## tp'spro (Apr 5, 2006)

Reverend said:


> And the solution???
> 
> I measured the WC to Hoyt specs and put about 4 extra twists before putting it on. Do you recommend more twists?


sollution by a bowtech tribute


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

JAVI said:


> Did you just put the string and cables on after measuring them to length or did you time &sync the cams then adjust the draw length and draw weight?


J-
I put them on after measuring them against the Hoyt stock strings and their spec chart. I did time the cams to make sure they hit the flats at exactly the same, and then I doubled checked the draw weight to make sure it didn't move.
BTW Draw weight was adjusted by backing down on limb bolts all the way and then backing out equally.. It's almost maxed out now... about a 1/2 turn from max, and shooting at about 61 #...


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

tp'spro said:


> sollution by a bowtech tribute


Then I would have limb and cam problems...:wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Reverend said:


> J-
> I put them on after measuring them against the Hoyt stock strings and their spec chart. I did time the cams to make sure they hit the flats at exactly the same, and then I doubled checked the draw weight to make sure it didn't move.
> BTW Draw weight was adjusted by backing down on limb bolts all the way and then backing out equally.. It's almost maxed out now... about a 1/2 turn from max, and shooting at about 61 #...


Measure the draw length and adjust with the string... my guess is you will find it long...

Take a look at this thread... http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=207391


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

JAVI said:


> Measure the draw length and adjust with the string... my guess is you will find it long...
> 
> Take a look at this thread... http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=207391



That's the thread I've followed to time the cams. Excellent work I might add maestro!
I guess I will have to measure the exact DL to make sure it's on. I assumed that the Hoyt spec will get me right on their advertised DL. I guess I shouldn't assume when it comes to Hoyts?? Are the Hoyt's running longer than actual DL?


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

JAVI said:


> Measure the draw length and adjust with the string... my guess is you will find it long...
> 
> 
> I think that the valley adjustment on the Zephyr cam also affects the DL. I left might post on factory setting.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Reverend said:


> That's the thread I've followed to time the cams. Excellent work I might add maestro!
> I guess I will have to measure the exact DL to make sure it's on. I assumed that the Hoyt spec will get me right on their advertised DL. I guess I shouldn't assume when it comes to Hoyts?? Are the Hoyt's running longer than actual DL?


Not in my experience, but remember the specs are for reference and not exact... That's why it is important to measure the draw length, draw weight and timing... Getting the bow set correctly is more important than getting to a reference measurement like A to A or Brace... 

By the way the string lengths published in Hoyt material or un-twisted lengths...:wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Reverend said:


> JAVI said:
> 
> 
> > Measure the draw length and adjust with the string... my guess is you will find it long...
> ...


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## nwpa3dshooter (Mar 26, 2006)

we had a stock one at the shop doing the same thing, there is so little load on the limbs at brace and the strings seem awfully loose to me compared to other bows at brace. i can push down on the top limb of my trykon xl and loose the strings to the point that they will come off, not much tension on the whole system at brace thats for sure. i put an STS on mine and forgot about it.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

JAVI said:


> By the way the string lengths published in Hoyt material or un-twisted lengths...:wink:


Say what? Untwisted? But they must factor in for stretch and such, because when I removed the factory Fuse string, and it was twisted, it was exactly the measurement they specified on the chart. Go figure?


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

nwpa3dshooter said:


> we had a stock one at the shop doing the same thing, there is so little load on the limbs at brace and the strings seem awfully loose to me compared to other bows at brace. i can push down on the top limb of my trykon xl and loose the strings to the point that they will come off, not much tension on the whole system at brace thats for sure. i put an STS on mine and forgot about it.


It really isn't that difficult to set it up correctly... 

Hoyt doesn't tune the bows they leave that to the shop...


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Reverend said:


> Say what? Untwisted? But they must factor in for stretch and such, because when I removed the factory Fuse string, and it was twisted, it was exactly the measurement they specified on the chart. Go figure?


Of course you applied the required 100 lbs of tension for 20 seconds and measured outside of 1/4" post to outside of 1/4" post... as per specs...:wink:


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

nwpa3dshooter said:


> i put an STS on mine and forgot about it.



I might have to do the same if I can't improve it...


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

JAVI said:


> Of course you applied the required 100 lbs of tension for 20 seconds and measured outside of 1/4" post to outside of 1/4" post... as per specs...:wink:


:doh: :confused3:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Reverend said:


> :doh: :confused3:


That's how string lengths are actually measured... 

Or at least the way they are supposed to be measured...:wink:


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Rev,

I see you got a thing going on between you and Javi. He's very good and I am not criticizing, but could it be something as simple as a tight nock on the serving?

If it's not then goi about your business and just ignore me.

Barry


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## Shooters Edge (Feb 6, 2005)

*Actually Shorter!*



Reverend said:


> That's the thread I've followed to time the cams. Excellent work I might add maestro!
> I guess I will have to measure the exact DL to make sure it's on. I assumed that the Hoyt spec will get me right on their advertised DL. I guess I shouldn't assume when it comes to Hoyts?? Are the Hoyt's running longer than actual DL?



Hey Reverend,
Focus on the axle to axle. Even if the cams are in time, the a-a could be long, dropping your brace. We have had plenty of new Trykons come through [we are hoyt dealers] and all have been a half inch short.:wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

bfisher said:


> Rev,
> 
> I see you got a thing going on between you and Javi. He's very good and I am not criticizing, but could it be something as simple as a tight nock on the serving?
> 
> ...


You're right it well could be...


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## Heliman21 (Mar 7, 2005)

I also had the same string slap right from the moment I was handed the bow and my first shot with it. I tried everything from the hand postion to changing my feet slightly. Nothing worked. What I did do though was change my string to Vapor Trail, but followed Javi's tuning guide. Once I got the cams timed using a drawing board, the slap is gone. Javi's guide is the bible when it comes to tuning! :thumbs_up


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

JAVI said:


> It really isn't that difficult to set it up correctly...
> 
> Hoyt doesn't tune the bows they leave that to the shop...


Aint that the truth, to go off of the stock strings as a referance is a big mistake.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

*string slap*

I had the same problem with my ultra tech after i changed the stock
strings with vapor trail. I adjusted the split harness for alittle cam lean
and the string quit hitting my arm.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

I will double check the nock tightness later. This afternoon, I did measure exact DL and it was a little long... about 3/16 in. After twisting string a few times it is exactly at 28in. DL. The BH is 7 1/4 in. and A2A is 35 1/4. Cams are timed. Limbs are cranked down all the way, and peak DW is 60# (thought I'd get at least 63#). String still slaps...

I'm wondering if parallel limbed bows, because they have less limb pre-bend, don't stress the strings and cables as much as regular non-parallel limbed bows do?


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## ILarcher10 (Nov 25, 2005)

I don't think its a parallel limb thing in general because my swithcback or switchback xt don't do it to me and we haven't sold any xt's that have reported arm slap (sorry, not a Mathews plug that's just what we sell). Generally the problem is like someboidy already said, the harness is out of whack and the bracehight has gottn short. Have you tried turning your elbow out or rotating your palm on the grip clockwise?


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## live2bowhunt (Nov 20, 2003)

I would look closely at the nock fit as well. I had the same problem with my Trykon XL, but the arrow nock fit the serving very tightly and I believe that it actually pulled the string forward toward the riser during the shot. I sanded my nock groove to get it to fit looser, and the problem was solved.


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## WR (Aug 28, 2002)

Reverend....... I'm curious, did you put the speed nocks back on the new string?? WR


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

WR said:


> Reverend....... I'm curious, did you put the speed nocks back on the new string?? WR


I took the speed nocks off, because it didn't stop the oscillation, nor did it improve my speed. I adjusted them in half inch increments 1/2 in. from bottom cam all the way to 1 3/4 in. Optimum setting was 3/4 from cam, but I got same speed without them.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Well I've ruled out nock tightness. I even purposely shot a loose nocked arrow to see if the slap would stop. No change 
I guess my next move would be to try the original Fuse string to see if it does the same.
I'm still wondering if it is the material W/C uses (8125)? It might be more elastic??? When I compare it to the Vapor Trail system on my UltraTec, the VT's seem to be much more taut. 
Comparing both, when I strum the string (like a guitar), the VT "thumps" while the WC "twangs." Does this make sense?


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## turkeytom (May 8, 2003)

Reverend,P.M.ed you with some info.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

*Back to the Drawing Board*

Well last night I started from scratch. I removed the WC and put on the Fuse strings. No change. Still slappin So I decided to go back to the WC's. Here's what I did:
1. I reameasured the WC's and brought them back to Hoyt specs per Hoyt tuning charts. Here are those numbers:
String-53.75 in.
Control Cable- 41.25 in.
Buss Cable- 38.25 in.
At this setting the BH should be 7 3/8 in. and the Axle to Axle should be 35 1/4 in.

2. Then I timed the cams
3. Set draw length
4. Set the draw weight

The final result was 28 in. DL, 7 1/4 in. BH, 35 1/4 in. A2A, 60# maxed out. Still the string slap is not gone. What am I doing wrong? If I continue to twist the string and cables, won't I lose my DL, DW, A2A, and BH???


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

*The saga continues...*

Last night I did a little more experimenting to see if I could resolve the problem. This time I added 10 twists to the String and cables. After making the necessary adjustments to time the cams, I eliminated MOST, but not all of the slap.  Obviously, the overall specs of the bow have changed and I'm not sure if that is good. 
Instead of 35 1/4 in A2A, it's now 34 7/8
Instead of 7 5/16 in. BH, it's now 7 7/16
Instead of 61# max weight, it's now 65#
Instead of 260 fps, it's now 255 fps.

I guess my question is, "how many additional twists can I safely add to the W/C's without it having an adverse effect?":confused2: 
Also, I'm ok with the BH, but I'm a little concerned that my A2A keeps dropping. Should I be?:awkward:


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## vandal44 (Mar 26, 2005)

*Rev*

I just got my Trykon the other day and set it all up to shoot. I am getting string slap, however, not as bad as you. I have tried the same thing you have after reading this post. I still have the Fuse Strings on my bow. I am getting to upset with it so I will be sending it off to Mike Carter. Best of luck to you. 
Gerry


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## MysticFlight (Feb 8, 2006)

Have you changed your grip at all? When I went from my old PSE to my new VTEC last year I started getting string slap as well. Come to find out I was putting too much torque on the bow with my old grip style. I changed my grip a little and got rid of it but was not good for me. I added the STS and forgot all about it and shoot better than ever.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

*Grip vs. No-Grip*



mgbarr71 said:


> Have you changed your grip at all? When I went from my old PSE to my new VTEC last year I started getting string slap as well. Come to find out I was putting too much torque on the bow with my old grip style. I changed my grip a little and got rid of it but was not good for me. I added the STS and forgot all about it and shoot better than ever.



I don't think my grip has changed. But it is interesting that when I contacted Hoyt they told me to replace the stock grip with the side plates. Hmmm? Perhaps a recurring problem for some?
When I took off the grip, the slap was virtually gone...
But here's my question, "Isn't this just a band-aid remedy?"


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## CA Bowhunter (Jan 17, 2004)

maybe your draw length is to long.Blake


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Common occurrence… same reason some folks have trouble switching from brand to brand… change the handle…. Change how you hold the bow… The wider the grip plate the more likely you are to induce torque...

Glad you reasoned it out…. If someone had told you this you wouldn’t have believed it…


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## Roland (Oct 16, 2002)

CA Bowhunter said:


> maybe your draw length is to long.Blake


My thought also. Give us a little detail on your wingspan and draw length.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Roland said:


> My thought also. Give us a little detail on your wingspan and draw length.


I went through the wingspan thing last year, and actually forgot it. But it resulted in me reducing my DL by about 1 1/2 in. I followed some excellent threads here on how to do it, along with some books and DVD's. And finally had it confirmed by two coaches... it is 28 in.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

JAVI said:


> Common occurrence… same reason some folks have trouble switching from brand to brand… change the handle…. Change how you hold the bow… The wider the grip plate the more likely you are to induce torque...
> 
> Glad you reasoned it out…. If someone had told you this you wouldn’t have believed it…


Perhaps it's time to give "Johnson grips" a call?


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