# Matthews?



## mecrowe (May 22, 2002)

Jon...
Mathews never releases their 2003 models until the AMO show in Januaray.....so just keep waiting 


--mike


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

It would be a suprise if mathew had anything really new and innovative, they will probably follow the crowd back to twin cam city. Perhaps not, but they've been stuck in their ways with that riser design for so long who knows? Good shooting.
Dylan


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## UltraGP (Sep 19, 2002)

I agree with you, Dylan. I too would like to see some alternative riser design. I did not go nuts over last years changes. In fact i'm shooting an older model and holding my breath for this years line.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Disagree*

Sorry to dissagree and Im no big Mathews fan club guy. I shot Legacy of friends and its the best huntng bow I ever shot. I purchesed my own. Held my own in 3d locally also. I understand what your saying. They should make some design changes in grips and risors for 2003. You never know what they might come up with. Im wanting bow for 3d and have been looking at Botech, but will wait to see what happens at AMO from Mathews. I think maybe longer axle-axle Legacy if I was quessing! Saw new Hoyts but the dealer that sponser me doesnt have Hoyts. Parker,PSE,Maybe BOtech this year,Martin and Matthews are my choices.


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## Derbytown (May 22, 2002)

DB, have you tried the PSE Primos STL. According to Larry Rooks it is a "must have" bow. Very nice shooting bow with little or no vibration and hand shock. If I get the chance I'm gonna go shoot one. Try it out and let me know your opinion of this bow. Be safe.
Shoot Straight
Derbytown


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## UltraGP (Sep 19, 2002)

Boone, The Icon is the bow for you, if you like a longer AtoA Legacy. The Icon has a wheel like cam, instead of elliptical. I have owned a lot of mathews bows, I just did'nt like the Rubber string stops and the miles and miles of string serving, or the way that roller cableguard loads up the limbs. I'm shooting a Mathews right now, hence the moniker UltraGP. I shoot the Ultra 2. I'm a short draw length, so I don't put too much emphasis on brace height. Ultra2 gives me some options. I don't think I have seen a better looking bow than that CougarIII so far for 2003. I would like for Mathews to have a target bow approx. 39",7" BH, 295-305 IBO. I think they are going to discontinue the MQ1? I think the Bowtech 40" dual wheelie looked pretty slick, I'm a little skeptical about the advertised speeds, none the less, I thought that would be a fun indoor bow.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*ICON Martin PSE*

My buddy wants to loan me his to shoot this season. I just cant get that good speed out of Icon for IBO format. Ultragp I shot with Justin Martin in Illinois pro-am team shoot and he was a pro sporting Icon and he had great season last year. Is the Cougar a Martin? I wish there were more Martin Competion Bows to try in my area. Mostly hunting.
Derby, PSE seems to have overpriced there good competion bows. I shoot with two of the best PSE shooters here in my home state and I couldnt beleive the price of there competion bows they shot. Great bows. I well aware of PSE qaulity. I sold so many nova packeges I could set one up with my eyes closed, I think.
Thanks Guys!


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

DB, I too am looking into a new 3D bow for the upcoming season. I've been looking into 3 different bows. Martin cougar III with the furyX cams, 03 Hoyt UltraTec, and waiting to see what mathews is going to bring out. Only thing is I have 2 pro shops in my area, one carries Martins and the other carries Hoyts, they both said they would Co-op sponser me. So I'll probably be shooting a new hoyt or martin in 2003.


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

I have been a Mathews owner and dealer for the last 10 years.I wouldn't nock the riser design, a little heavier than the norm but when its the smoothest shooting bow you have ever shot don't try to fix it.Mathews has been the innovator in so much of what we know in archery today, have a little faith they always deliver. 

Take a closer look into that Hoyt design.I also thought it was a double cam design or CPS system like Darton.Its a beast of its own.Hoyt thinks its the new milestone in archery.Hoyt tells us that both of the ecentrics work together as one in perfect timming.They also lead us to believe that this system has all of the +'s of single and double cams minus all of flaws.We'll see, time will tell.




Top of the food chain!


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## Tony Goodwin (Nov 4, 2002)

Thebowguy

Had the cam&1/2 and Darton side by side in the shop. The profiles may be a little different but the system is the same. 
If the string stretches the cams go out of tune. They even both have the same tuning lines on the cams!

The Darton shoots ok so I see no reason why the Hoyt will shoot OK too. As for no tuning, forget it!

Mathews have kept there bows much the same for a long time. They have always shot well, why change them just for fashion!


Tony


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

Tony ,
The CPS system is a control feed to absorb some of the 70% of string fed out from the top so it draws nock level its not an eccentric like Hoyts.CPS can change its timming (or so called tunning because if there wasn't any timming the cam could face any direction)As a matter of fact we twisted the string with the Hoyt rep. up to 19 times and the cams were still in time and pulled the bow back from all the way down by the two weighted speed nocks on the bottom of the string ,still stayed in time. Hoyt swears there is no timming so it can't come out.
Don't get me wrong I am a Big Mathews fan.This is just what we were told and shown from the Hoyt rep. and my reps a pretty stand up guy. If he thought it was junk he would tell me even if he is a Hoyt rep(he has before) 
The only thing I wasn't pleased to find out was that the straight line cam we have always been told draws nock level better than any other single cam does, but at every seven draw lengths.I was told by a bow tech it draws level at 22" and 29"s of draw.There is like 16 different cam lengths and it would take a different idlerwheel for each size draw for it to draw level for everyone.


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

Sorry I fogot they also told us that those are not timming lines on the Hoyt.If the strings pass through the groove on the cam thats were the cam will perform the best and the bow will shoot the fastest at that point.He did say it was a screw up to put those lines there because everyone would think the same thing even I did.

There is extra cabel on this bow that connects unlike any other.


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## Double Lung 'Em (Dec 19, 2002)

*No Timing Marks*

Bowguy-

Dang, I thought the same thing. I would like a little better explanation on what you referring to as the best place for the string to pass through the cam for optimum performance, since I own the Razortec (sweet bow), but do have a Pat DC on the way, can't wait to play.


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

If you twist the strings or cabel (fine tune draw length)the sting will come out of the cam lines and supposably stays in time still of course this means the draw will shorten and it would lessen your power stroke.Hoyt says if you get the string to center between the two lines the rotation of the cam at that point will allow the bow to perform the best and supposably the fastest


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## Double Lung 'Em (Dec 19, 2002)

*Gotcha*

Bowguy-

Thanks, I guess things mean different things to different people and that is what I thought but I thought they were called timing marks, maybe performance marks are a better name.


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## pnydeer (Dec 16, 2002)

*Not impressed*

In are local shop they got a Hoyt protec in. I grabbed a 380 grain arrow at 68 lbs. I proceeded to shoot this bow through the graph and it had a very spongy back wall and it was only shootin 263 feet per second. I then looked at the "peformance marks" on the bow and the cables were outside them. All I did was put two twists in the cables to get them with in the marks. Thats it, just two twists. So what happens when the string stretches in a far off place from home! Wait it gets better!! I then pulled the bow back and the wall was then "solid" and I shot it at 281 feet per second. So again I say what happens when the string stretches and settles in?!? Maybe a 18 feet per second difference in speed and a not so sold wall. If you don't believe me try it on your bow. I've tried it on several models. The verdict is still out on the new cam .5 in my eyes. Just a man with a opinion.


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

Believe me when I tell you I'm not a Hoyt fan.

All they lead us to believe is no matter if its one twist or ten the cams are still in time.The lines are to be used as peformance referance.
All strings stretch even top shell pre stretched strings some materials more than others and some very little.
I have always thought Hoyt was lacking in the string department.


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## Shirt (Aug 31, 2002)

Stick in my 0.02 - the Cam/2 is a great idea, and (I think) one of the nicer cams I've shot (albeit only in a shop). What I'm not too happy with is the fact they say "no timing" and in fact they need the timing checking like a dual cam. Not necessarily to the same extent, but certainly more than they say on the adverts. 

What I wonder is, what's going to happen when a new archer gets one of these things, doesn't think about timing etc, and the string stretches? If they don't know that it's gone out of time, they're going to feel ripped off if they run into someone who tells them this - "But the ad said no timing!"


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

What Hoyt is saying is that if the string stretches both cams will move the same so the timming will always stay.It will not be tuned to shoot the best but the cam ½ was designed to still stay in time.The guy that dosn't no any better most likely would continue to shoot it if the string stretched and not try to retune but the bow (according to Hoyt) will stay in time just speed would change.They are sticking with their story of no timming.

I'll wait until the Jan 17th and still order my Mathews when I asked my in house Mathews rep about the new Hoyts he let out a little laugh,either they think the new Hoyt design won't hold true or Mathews has something bigger and better up their sleeves.My faith has always been with Mathews they have not let me down yet.
By the way did any Mathews dealers out their get their Christmas gifts from them this year.They always treat us right.
They gave us a big Neon Mathews sign for the window,a pair of matching Mathews polarized sunglasses with four set of lenses and for the people in the top 100 sales a Swiss Army gold and silver watch with the Mathews logo on the face.They are always the best gifts I get for Christmas every year.Thanks Mathews your the best.


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

What Hoyt is saying is that if the string stretches both cams will move the same so the timming will always stay.It will not be tuned to shoot the best but the cam ½ was designed to still stay in time.The guy that dosn't no any better most likely would continue to shoot it if the string stretched and not try to retune but the bow (according to Hoyt) will stay in time just speed would change.They are sticking with their story of no timming.

I'll wait until the Jan 17th and still order my Mathews when I asked my in house Mathews rep about the new Hoyts he let out a little laugh,either they think the new Hoyt design won't hold true or Mathews has something bigger and better up their sleeves.My faith has always been with Mathews they have not let me down yet.
By the way did any Mathews dealers out their get their Christmas gifts from them this year.They always treat us right.
They gave us a big Neon Mathews sign for the window,a pair of matching Mathews polarized sunglasses with four set of lenses and for the people in the top 100 sales a Swiss Army gold and silver watch with the Mathews logo on the face.They are always the best gifts I get for Christmas every year.Thanks Mathews your the best.


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## damnyankee (Oct 4, 2002)

And maybe next year a new toaster with the Mathews logo on it.


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## Nino (Jul 9, 2002)

Why is it I always notice that guys shooting Mathews bows are so loyal to "there" company that they feel they have to blast or make all other ideas or designs of other companies inferior? Usually these are the guys who are wanna be sponsered and aren't. Wasn't it Mathews shooters that were bending cams for some reason on purpose. Wasn't it most single cam shooters complaining about cable wear on the bottom power cable serving? When the Dual track Idler wheel came out Hoyt guys stoped having problems. How about you Mathews guys still wearing? Now the Cam and a 1/2 is here Darton Shooters are crying foul. I have heard Darton is Suing Hoyt. I have heard there in Court. I haver heard that Hoyt has already paid them a royalty. 
Speckulation is Bull Sh#@! Why do people care what some one else shoots? I do not. I am looking forward to seeing what Mathews has coming out. I might even buy one, but I promise you this. I won't be walking around praising Mathews like Matt McPhearson is Jesus. Like I have seen so many others do! You people who act like that are ******ed.
Bowguy:
Believe me when I tell you I'm not a Hoyt fan.

All they lead us to believe is no matter if its one twist or ten the cams are still in time.The lines are to be used as peformance referance.
All strings stretch even top shell pre stretched strings some materials more than others and some very little.
I have always thought Hoyt was lacking in the string department.

What is that supposed to mean? Does bowguy have an agenda or is he the driver of the short bus? Put your helmets on everyone! Show me a bow straight from the factory other than a Bowtec with a "Good" string and cable?
I certainly have never seen one. Maybe good enought to hunt with but for target? I have never seen a factory string that was any account. No matter what company it came from Mathews included. By the way Zebra strings Suck too. That was the worst string I ever owned! Buckle up!


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Nino, I think I read somewhere that Forge Bows will be using Winner's Choice this year.


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## asa3dpro (Dec 31, 2002)

*Scotty, beam Nino back up! Please!!!*

Nino,
What brand of bow do you shoot and how many National Tournaments have you won with it? thats what I and the rest of the Mathews communitiy thought. 
Bash away as you may you can't argue with success. I guess that if you had Hoyt or Mathews stock you would not be Bitc%in then. Hoyts were great until the innovative Crap 1/2( Oh, I mean Cam 1/2) Bowtech show me a riser design that was'nt copied?
It's easy to [email protected] when your on the sidelines and not in the game! I wonder how many of these manufactures did'nt even raise a brow at you?
Mathews will come out with what ever. I will still shoot my Conquest 2 (or what ever one of my Mathews heros shoot! HE HE
Strings will always be out weak link. All a man can do is pay $90 for a custom one or twist away.
I guess that is my $.02 worth. Not being smart just honest. I'm strapped in. Bash away


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

ASA3DPro:
I wana party with you Cowboy.We need more input from guys like you.Keep on shootin.


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

OH I forgot Nino,

Anytime you wana take a ride I'll keep my trunk cleaned out for ya.


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## Nino (Jul 9, 2002)

ASA Pro I am glad you are straped in do you have your helmet on?  I shoot a Hoyt ( I own 3 - 2002 Ultratecs and 2 - 2003's and a Protec) I have owned most major brands of bows just about in my short 20 year archery stint. I could shoot well with a 79 bear whitetail but that really doesn't matter. How many national championships have you won? I have never entered one so there fore I have not won any thanks. I did not see the sighn that every ones shooting skills were how you are judged here ... I would like to say I was not bashing any companies. Maybey you can point out for me where I did. I was bashing Brown nosers like you. As soon as they smell blood they all come out. I love it. I think it is so funny you guys defending ol Matt. Like he needs your help. Did you get your free bows for that? I clearly stated I might buy a new Mathews but we will have to see about that when the new ones come out. As for strings and cables I only shoot Winners Choice I have them on all 5 Ultratecs and I paid $100.00 a set. Been using them for the past 3 or 4 years. I will pass on that ride Bowguy.  
Glad to hear that Forge is using Winners Choice wish every one else was. I own the Crap and a 1/2 and it shoots awesome. If it can go out of time or not? it has not so far, if it will or not I really don't care. I can fix it if it does. I can work on my own gear. and I don't need a shop, so ASAPro I like my Crap and a 1/2 UT. I never had a problem with the Command Cam + either I own 3 of them . That's what I am shooting indoors waiting on my Flag Ultratec XT3000 Cam and a 1/2. I might not be a National Champion but I will look good anyway. Good Day


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

Nino ,
Look back through the entire posting .It was the topic of conversation.You came along like some one licked the red off your candy.You dished out a little so ASA3Dpro gave a little back.We talk to learn and have fun not to get Bent.Divide and conquer thats how we loose all are hunting rights(stick together)I'm a hunter as well as a shooter.I'm not gonna get in a pissing contest over what we shoot or don't. I like them all ,thats why I sell them and talk about them.Just had an opinion.


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## Nino (Jul 9, 2002)

You ever heard the saying "he likes to stir Sh&%" 
Some times "I like to stir". All in fun my good man, all in fun.


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## asa3dpro (Dec 31, 2002)

*All in good fun also!!!*

Nino,
Man I love you! You are all right. I'll take my licks just like you and stand tall. Man I sure loved the Hoyt until they changed their cam. I guess I could change one. I never took a bow from Mathews I don't think it would be right to the John Q's. I was going to shoot for Hoyt this year but with my short draw length(27") I could not get the speed out of the protec last year and I doubt I could get that with the Cam1/2. Anyway all in good fun man I like to strike the hornets nest sometimes. Thanks for the fun.


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## asa3dpro (Dec 31, 2002)

*What have I done?*

5 P&Y Whitetails,1MuleDeer,31 years old 20+ years bowhunting. 6 National Titles(Semi-Pro) and 15 top tens. Not braggin just truth.Hey, three of my deer were with a recurve. Go figure? Well, we will have to gang up again sometimes. 
Your Bowhunting and Shooting Buddy


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## Barry Salmound (Jan 7, 2003)

Not having seen Matthews new bows, the PSE Team Primos is the best I have seen and shot. Others will be hard pressed to top this offering from PSE. I am sure others will bad mouth it and PSE for that matter. They haven't been on top for 33 years by having 2nd rate equipment and service. Oh, by the way, Bow Tech announced today that they will start producing crossbows in 2004.


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## Nino (Jul 9, 2002)

ASAPro when you get the chance try a protec with XT2000's and the Spiral cam and a 1/2. I think you could get about 290 out of it or at least in the 280's at 27" I have found with the Cam and a 1/2 that you only lose 5fps per inch that you shorten from there stated speeds. I shot a Supertec at 70# 28" 65% letoff 350gr arrow 320fps. 55% only picked up 3 more feet. go figure. My 2003 Ultratec is about 5 fps faster than my 02 with Command +
I was getting 292 fps out of my 3-d rig (2002) on 57# 28" 65%let off and my hunting UT same set up (CC+) but 70# was running 295 fps with a 3-49 acc and a 100gr point and 3" vanes. The 03 cam and a 1/2 is right at 300fps. My buddy is buying a Protec with XT3000 limbs cam and a 1/2 and is expecting in the 270fps area at 27"


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## Thebowguy (Jan 4, 2003)

ASA3Dpro,
I have a customer who ordered a Super Tec Spiral cam & ½ 26" 50lbs.This guys one of my best customers he buys about 9-10 bows a year.He shoots them for a week to a couple of months(never longer)then sells them.He's on the quest for speed because of his draw length.I'll let you know what we get out of it.
He ordered a target color and because of his specs we have been waiting since Oct for it. 





By the way,I'm also a 1971'r year of the pig.


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## Climbergirl15 (Jan 5, 2003)

Yeah, when he sells the bows they are at a good price too. I just got his Legacy.


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## mshane (Oct 15, 2002)

Barry, if you go over to the Bowsite you will see that Bowtech is NOT going to start selling crossbows. Kevin Strother came on there and posted about an article in an archery industry magazine that they were just messing around with speed. I'm pretty sure he said something to the effect that he would give all his patents for cams to the guy that started the thread if Bowtech sold crossbows. Just some info.....


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Mshane--looking to Bowsite for accurate information on any issue involving crossbows is kind of like pulling up the PLO website and expecting objective information about Israel. The main sponsor of the Bowsite claims that novices with crossbows can outshoot guys like Dave Cousins
and Dee Wilde using compound bows. I have never seen more lies in archery than on the Bowsite concerning crossbows


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

once again this is like the dodge guys not liking the ford guys or the chevy guys not liking anyone. Mathews makes a great product, if they didn't they wouldn't be around - marketing or no marketing if it is junk word travels. 

any of the bows made by mathews, hoyt, pse, darton, bowtech, etc. etc. are great bows. no one bow is th ebest for everyone that is why there are so many great bows out there.


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## Shirt (Aug 31, 2002)

Jim C said:


> *looking to Bowsite for accurate information on any issue involving crossbows is kind of like pulling up the PLO website and expecting objective information about Israel. *


ROTFL! Man, that is such a line!


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## mshane (Oct 15, 2002)

Jim, wasn't looking for any info on crossbows. It was a Bowtech thread that turned into someone with the user name KSFlash bashing bowtechs and then brought up the crossbow thing. I ordered a DC Patriot about a month and a half ago and am just trying to keep up with the info posted about the bow, since some people already have them and are giving their impressions on how they shoot. Thanks......


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