# Older vs Newer bows



## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

was talking with my best bud Cato the other day and between us we have owned at least 7 or 8 bows. maybe more :wink: we were talking about the feel of the older finger bows vs some newer ones. there's not a lot of newer finger bows but there are a good many older hoyt's and things out there. the older bows seem to be "clunkier" and just not as efficient as some newer bows. technology has come a long way for sure. just wanted to get some input from some of you guys on the subject. would you rather have an older fixed up bow or a newer model and why? Thanks for your opinions.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

I muchly prefer my Tribute over the older equivalents I used to have. Among them were a Pro Vantage with the magnesium riser and a Pro Star Meridian (all were stolen some years back). The Tribute is basically the same technology - still has the round wheels and approximately the same dimensions, maybe a lower brace height than my Pro Vantage. But:
- limb pockets are much much better, I could rock the limbs back and forth in the pockets on my Pro Vantage a tiny bit with a good whack. The modern limbs and pockets are very secure.
- new wheels have modules that allow DL adjustments without pressing the bow.
- the Tribute's handle is light years stronger and better made than the older handles.
- the handle profile of the Tribute under the grip is very thin, so taking the grip off transforms it into a rock-steady target bow.
- you can shoot and shoot and shoot and nothing snaps off or comes undone off the bow. A common occurrence in the old days with the old tech. 

So if you want late 80's target bow technology (Ideal for fingers of course) in a modern package, I muchly recommend something like the Tribute. You can still custom order something from Barnsdale also. 

lee.


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## Icee (Jul 27, 2016)

I agree with above about new vs old. I just prefer the looks and feel of shooting some of 
the older models with the recurve type limbs. That's why I ordered a Barnsdale. I loved my older Caribou 
Was the model without the tech riser wish I never sold it. I never did shoot the Bowtech constitution or the Mathews conquest very well with fingers release.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

Thanks guys. One thing I was thinking about today. Is the only thing it takes to make a good fingers bow is the right ata and bh or does it take something more? Looking in the target section and theres a lot of bows in the upper 30 to low 40 ata and well over 7" bh specs. just wondering if any of them would make a good fingers bow.


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## Icee (Jul 27, 2016)

Personally I like a bow 42-46" and at least a 7 1/2" brace height but prefer higher. 
My draw length is about 29"


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## lundy (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm now shooting an Elite Victory 39' ATA. Better, faster, lighter than my Hoyt Protec. BTW no finger pinch.


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## Icee (Jul 27, 2016)

Elite is one I haven't tried but heard good things about. Just a little gun shy because I didn't have good results with the Bowtech Constitution. And I wouldn't be able to try one first as there are no dealers near me.


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## shadowhunter (Oct 12, 2003)

lundy, what is your draw length?


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

44-46 ATA and put newer cams on it like GTX. No longer clunky and slow.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

I have only tried one Elite and I think it was a tour. It was actually Cato's bow and he couldn't get that thing to shoot right for anything. I shot it and same issue. Turns out after much discussion with Elite, they said we would have to shim cams and stuff. Didn't seem like that you'd need to do that just to shoot fingers. I believe that when using a release it was fine. Bow didn't stay around long after that if memory serves me correctly. I haven't tried another one for fingers and I don't think Mitchell has either. He does enjoy his New Breed.


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## lundy (Sep 4, 2013)

My draw length 29 1/2"


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## fmoss3 (Apr 20, 2003)

Icee;
You say you ordered a Barnsdale bow. What kind of delivery did he give you? Just wondering, he has my Montega, making new limbs, and I've been waiting some time now.
Anybody else having to wait on Dave?


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## Icee (Jul 27, 2016)

I talked to him yesterday he told me should be a around October


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

Back in the early 80's. I really didn't see a lot of difference is compound design for 48" finger bows. Most were wood glass on a cast riser back then. And you were lucky to break 200 fps with a 30 inch arrow. Hoyt came along with their Pro Hunter at 45" long a better designed 50% wheel and picked up 5% more speed. Which was fine if you could shoot the same arrows. Carbon Limbs came on the target model for more money of course. Later the Pro Vantage came out with fast flight, it looked better , better shooting riser, cracks were a problem. Martin came out with a nice 65% wheel and a yoke system like Golden Eagle had used. They were much better than the older 50% Martins. I think finger bows hit their prime after the Pro Vantage. When better risers had to be developed to handle the power generated by the newer tech. You really don't see to many testing out finger compounds in todays world and have to attend events to see what is good. Being a LH shooter I have had to watch a lot of RH bows before ordering.

My JVA Astro is a 48" Black and Silver riser with new (old stock) Black Wood/Glass limbs. I took of the carbons, because I shot better with wood. It has a 10" brace and is tight compared to the old wheels. 

Here is a link to my old thread after the rebuild.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2295136&highlight=JVA+astro

Would love to order a Barnsdale , but cant justify it with my PSE Freak, JVA Astro and Olympic rig. They cover most of my needs. Might build a WA Barebow rig someday. 

Perfect scores have been shot on these older bows. Find a bow you like the feel of and just perfect its tune to the arrow your shooting.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

my perfect bow would be around 35" ata and 7-7.5" bh. shooting around 300 fps, solid back wall and I can drive tacks with it. I know those really long bows are more forgiving but I hunt first and foremost. Need something hunter friendly and preferably a lighter physical weight. also needs to be quiet. lol not asking much I know. I cant draw 70#'s anymore so 55-60 would be perfect. :tongue:


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## lundy (Sep 4, 2013)

BOHO said:


> my perfect bow would be around 35" ata and 7-7.5" bh. shooting around 300 fps, solid back wall and I can drive tacks with it. I know those really long bows are more forgiving but I hunt first and foremost. Need something hunter friendly and preferably a lighter physical weight. also needs to be quiet. lol not asking much I know. I cant draw 70#'s anymore so 55-60 would be perfect. :tongue:


Take a look at the Elite V-37, pretty close to what you want.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Astroguy said:


> Back in the early 80's. I really didn't see a lot of difference is compound design for 48" finger bows. Most were wood glass on a cast riser back then. And you were lucky to break 200 fps with a 30 inch arrow. Hoyt came along with their Pro Hunter at 45" long a better designed 50% wheel and picked up 5% more speed. Which was fine if you could shoot the same arrows. Carbon Limbs came on the target model for more money of course. Later the Pro Vantage came out with fast flight, it looked better , better shooting riser, cracks were a problem. Martin came out with a nice 65% wheel and a yoke system like Golden Eagle had used. They were much better than the older 50% Martins. I think finger bows hit their prime after the Pro Vantage. When better risers had to be developed to handle the power generated by the newer tech. You really don't see to many testing out finger compounds in todays world and have to attend events to see what is good. Being a LH shooter I have had to watch a lot of RH bows before ordering.
> 
> My JVA Astro is a 48" Black and Silver riser with new (old stock) Black Wood/Glass limbs. I took of the carbons, because I shot better with wood. It has a 10" brace and is tight compared to the old wheels.
> 
> ...


I believe it was right after the magnesium handle Pro Vantage period is when the overdraw craze really got rolling. With a 6" overdraw, you were practically dry-firing your bow, even with the still-state-of-the-art XX75 shafts cut down to crossbow bolt lengths. That also was what started the move away from long ATA wheel bows with magnesium or wood handles to the short limbs, violent hard cams, 6" or less brace heights, and CNC machined 6061 or better handles, pretty much the situation we have today without the overdraws. Not to mention the decline in finger shooting, since a hard cam, 35-40" ish ATA bow with a 6" overdraw was nearly impossible to shoot without using a release aid. Today, even your average target bow can't be shot fingers without at least some risk of derailing the string, unless you're really good at fingers....

So it's kind of hard to compare modern bows with the past 48" finger bows. I will say that my Tribute is as close as I can get to my old Pro Vantage 48 incher (I had a Pro Hunter too for a while), but it does feel a little different. And radically different than my PSE supra max. 

My goal is eventually to shoot the same scores with my Tribute that I do with my PSE, both with a release aid, though. Right now I drop a good 4 points or more on a 300 round with the Tribute vs the PSE, simply because the wheel bow takes that much more muscle to shoot the same arrow significantly slower. But I'm pretty sure I can eventually do it, just by sheer putting arrows through that bow. 

Even with a release aid, the Tribute gives me an absolutely divine feeling on the shot that the PSE doesn't quite. It's definitely my funnest bow to shoot.... Makes me wish I'd never gotten rid of my Pro Vantage all those years ago (But I had to to buy books for college, so off it went to a buyer)....

lee.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Only thing keeping modern target bows from being excellent finger shooters is ATA and BH.

Records are being set with new(er) bows. Specifically the better cams now available when combined with a 42-46" ATA frankenbow setup.


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

Be sure your choice has deep groves on the cams so it is less likely to derail. 

There is a Martin Shadowcat on eBay right now. It wont last.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Martin-Shad...770707?hash=item3cf5f8f293:g:VtQAAOSw7aBVEypw


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

That is the older and infinitely crappier Shadowcat, not the 2009-2012 bow which is quite excellent. Although mine has been sitting in the classifieds for a whole less than that.


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

grantmac said:


> That is the older and infinitely crappier Shadowcat, not the 2009-2012 bow which is quite excellent. Although mine has been sitting in the classifieds for a whole less than that.


That's good to know Grant. I'm sure yours is a much better deal.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Astroguy said:


> That's good to know Grant. I'm sure yours is a much better deal.


I think for a <29" DL there are few nicer bows to shoot BH style. Very easy to adjust let off using the single limb stop. Grip takes some getting used to and no way to adjust cam lean though.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

I shot fingers for 40 years and the last 15 years with a release,i wish the Barnsdale classic-x bow was around 30 years ago and today Barnsdale classic-x bow probably is the best finger compound bow made .plus Dave Barnsdale himself is so helpful when you buy a bow from him .


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## davidpogue762 (Sep 10, 2017)

I agree with above about new vs old. I just prefer the looks and feel of shooting some of 
the older models with the recurve type limbs. That's why I ordered a Barnsdale. I loved my older Caribou 
Was the model without the tech riser wish I never sold it. I never did shoot the Bowtech constitution or the Mathews conquest very well with fingers release.


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## Holo (Feb 12, 2004)

I started out shooting deflex riser with recurve limb compound bows, and transitioned into the newer parallel limbs 7 years ago. 
I can say that the new technology did NOT improve my scores any. Many of these models require additional stabilization to feel balanced. 
Some parallel limb bows at 40" or less even felt like they had too much string angle (limbs moving up and down vs. back and forth).
Tried a 40" Barnsdale Classic X recently and made full circle back to the deflex riser recurve limb.


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## capool (Aug 5, 2003)

Wish I could shoot any of the newer bows I only hunt


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

I see the fitzgeralds do it with the halon's but I sure dont know how they do it. I want something around 35 ata and 7-7.5 bh. Gonna look at new breed and also obsession is coming out with a fingers bow in Nov. Ive never shot a bow as great as my obsession release bow. I cant wait to see what they have.


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## cottonstalk (Feb 11, 2012)

I shoot an older Miles Kellar legend and have just started using a Mathews Ovation. There are things I like about both. For me the older bows strings come off the fingers without thought, very natural. The newer bows I have shot seem to require more thought. I like the ease of pull on the newer bows. I think it's just what you get use to.


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## Holo (Feb 12, 2004)

I just posted my Shadowcat for sale (it's not the older one).
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5291139&highlight=


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