# Poundage on Hoyt, Samick, and Win&Win



## icehaven (Nov 30, 2010)

Here's some info i recently got from Lancaster, and I thought I might post it incase anyone was wondering.

"All ILF bows have around 10% of adjustment, on the marked weight. Hoyt for instance marks their limbs at the medium setting. So a 30# set of limbs will have a range of 28.5-31.5#

W&W are the same as Hoyt.

Samick marks their limbs at the minimum weight. So their 30# limbs will range from 30-33#"


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## rick11743 (Sep 20, 2010)

Great input. You would think that all limb manufacturers would follow the same standard, since it is an important spec. I'd like to know how the other limb makers - Kaya, Sky, etc specify their limb weights - same as Samick, or same as Hoyt?


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Not as easy as that, the riser mixes up the weights too depending on deflection, limb fit.



icehaven said:


> Samick marks their limbs at the minimum weight.


On what riser? On my Samick Vision 2 riser the market weight of my Samick Vision Carbons is correct on a medium setting.


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## Bean Burrito (Apr 20, 2011)

I've seen plenty of misinformation about Hoyt/W&W ratings- people seeming to think W&W are weighed limb bolts maxed out, at a shorter draw, etc. Well they aren't- I've noticed Hoyt and W&W limbs coming in at similar weights, and if anything, W&W limbs are closer to their rated spec. This seems to be in agreeance to that. Never shot Samick, but a shooting partners masters make their advertised weight with limbs completely out at 28", so that would fit.


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

Interesting Post,
I'd like to break my comments, observations and questions into two areas.

Area 51 <ººººººº> (Uh, I mean part 1, let's go with parts): 
I think a lot of us have previously understood "Samicks as heavier" than most other limbs that bare the same rating ("other" usually referring to the usual suspects Hoyt, Win, SF, Greatree, etc.), but not as many of us understand why and are still wondering. It's been a common comment over the years that when ordering or purchasing Samick limbs one should take 2lbs off that which they would select when purchasing "other" limbs.

I've heard one comment that Samicks 32# rating compared Win or Hoyt's 32# rating (as example) was heavier because Samick rates them at shorter draw length (reason given at the time was silly even if it was true). Is it true? icehaven's discovery with Lancaster makes more sense.
In fact I have some Samicks (getting some more) and really like them, I always order 2 pounds lighter than I would an equivalent Win&Win set of limbs, hooooweeever, I seemed to notice that limbs, especially if wood core, could vary slightly anyway (within one pound at most).
Being one to start tuning from the limb bolts, not a problem unless caught at the weakest setting from the start on a Win riser (yes the riser also makes a big difference IMHO).

For many that found out the hard way it's been frustrating when enlightened about the difference. If you got yourself some samick limbs after your only experience prior was Hoyt, Win&Win or similar limbs, then it quite often came as a shock that your new Samick 34# limbs turned out (or tuned out) to 36# liimbs compared to everything you knew about your old limbs. 

Most know now (I assume) that Samicks rate their limbs differently, and to order about 2 pounds less than what you would order if you were ordering Hoyt/Win/Many others. I did as several others also suspected and found that MK Korea limbs are also rated similarly to Samicks (both native Korean companies). Now I wonder (Since I have no experience with them) if the Kaya limbs, also a Korean limb manufacturer (amongst other archery gear) are rated in the same manor as Samicks and MK Koreas? If so, how many other manufacturers do this (and if so with what manufacturers Riser or Simulator, etc...?), and are there any that aren't of Korean Origin that rate them this way? 
And so, just as a Destroyer pointed out, if the reason the Samick's (and MK Korea from my experience) rating is so different is because they Rate their limbs at the lightest setting, I'd like to ask "the lightest setting in WHAT?, also). It would be great if we could get a list of which brand of limbs are rated which way as well as how or with what as a riser? Somehow I doubt we'll ever get that list (not trying to be a pessimist, but it seems unlikely).
Risers certainly differ in the amount of reflex, deflex and geometry (even with the same Manufacturer, the Win CXT as example has more Reflex than most earlier models of Win risers, I happen to like this myself, and it's been mentioned by Win as fact). Here's one observation by me made some time ago, a 34# Rated set of limbs in a Hoyt Riser with the limb bolts at factory setting, turned out to be the same as the same limbs placed in a Win riser (CXT wasn't even made yet) with bolts set at their factory setting. But we know that the hoyt factory setting is limb bolts in medium range of adjustment and the Win factory setting is limb bolts in the weakest (furthest out one can go) range of adjustment. At factory limb bolt settings, in a hoyt riser the limbs can be backed off from the their rating, where they cannot in a Win&Win riser.
Which is a good segway into Area uh-hum PART 2

Part 2:
So if Risers are another question in selecting and rating limbs, I have another question. I was told not long ago, that Win&Win risers with their Reflex design and the Limb Bolts in the Manufacturers setting as described above, actually have only about a 5% or so range of adjustment (this is not known fact, it's only something that someone said in a conversation) while hoyt risers had due to their unique geometry (lots 'o deflex?) and the manufacturers setting of their limb bolts being in the middle setting, have a 10% range of adjustment. So how much truth is there to this suggestion, if anyone out their knows the facts?

It really does seem to me that I have had less range of adjustment on Win risers (what I shoot most), than what I remember from Hoyts and I hear the same from others who have both brands, even now. One friend also has a Samick Riser (I have little experience with these though I have a lot with Samick Limbs), and it appears to have more deflex or less reflex than the win, but not as much as the Hoyt (if I'm even describing this correctly, but it's just somewhere in the middle) and therefore suggests a little more hoyt like in adjustment, perhaps more range there also, however I do not know how samick sets their limb bolts before putting in the box (samick manuf. setting)). Anyone know?
And if Samick rates their limbs based on the weakest setting of a Samick riser, then, well again we have deviation from what we know about ILF. Of course, it's ILF and not ILR (international Limb Rating) so there's no deviation I guess, just differences.
If anyone that can shed some more light on this whole subject, and even add some facts (as Mine are observation, hearsay, and some info from the Manufacturer's Manuals or Ads) it would be really helpful to us all I suspect, especially when buying that next riser/set of limbs we've always wanted to try.....

Thanks, icehaven, for posting this thread so I could ask a few questions that have nagged me, yet apparently not enough for me to start a thread myself.

-Brian


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## shootemstraight (Jan 13, 2007)

Win & Win riser manuals state that the limb bolts give 5% UP in bow weight.
That's been my experience, too (with several different risers/limbs). Win & Win limbs are rated on a 25" riser with limb bolts out. I think most people assume because it says +5%, that there would be a -5%, too. But there isn't. I would estimate that it's really more like +8%, but it's definitely only "plus" from the limb rating.

Via a phone conversation with Hoyt, their limbs are rated with limb bolts half way (medium), so they have a +/- from rated limb weight. Their manuals state that they are rated on a 25" handle and describe how to increase or decrease the bow weight.


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## skunklover (Aug 4, 2011)

From my experience, Kaya limbs seem to be rated at the limb bolts out position as well. I can't be sure until I check at 28 inch, but my Kaya limbs measure at 32.5 at 27inches, and if we go by the estimation of 2lbs or so per inch of DL, then my 34lb rated limbs are right about where they should be, on a fully backed out W&W riser. I'll check my Winex limbs when I'm done with final exams, and see what those measure.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

skunklover said:


> Kaya limbs seem to be rated at the limb bolts out position as well


My 3 sets of Kaya's (K3, K1, Tropics) on 2 Horizons and one excel all rate about 2# lighter. My K3's on the Horizon hit the marked weight at 1 turn off max weight. Like I said the riser has as much influence but it gets ignored for some reason.


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## DIV (Apr 12, 2012)

Ok, so I have a 31" daw length. If I wanted a set of limbs that give me 35#'s on the fingers in the middle range of the limb bolts, please confirm or correct what I figure I would need to be shopping for:

Samick rated at 26#
W&W rated at 28"
Hoyt rated at 30"


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## knotdodger (Oct 2, 2005)

The hoyt cx900 marked 36 lbs. Are 36 lbs maxed out in my hoyt nexus riser. 
With my 27.75 in draw. On the other hand the Kaya K3 's I just bought are 37.5 lbs maxed
out on the same riser. Also had to make a 3/8 longer string for the Kaya's vs the Hoyt limbs....


Rob B.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

icehaven said:


> Here's some info i recently got from Lancaster, and I thought I might post it incase anyone was wondering.
> 
> "All ILF bows have around 10% of adjustment, on the marked weight. Hoyt for instance marks their limbs at the medium setting. So a 30# set of limbs will have a range of 28.5-31.5#
> 
> ...


at one time I shot 42 pound medium limbs on a 25 inch ILF riser

I had many different limbs of that configuration

SKYJACK carbons
HOYT MI, G3 900s etc
Martin AURORA
SAMICK Extreme
WW WINEX, WINACT
PSE XFactor (similar to WINEX)
Original SKY-PSE Centra
Then WW-PSE (wood carbon)

BASED ON ALL OF THE ABOVE

Hoyts were the lightest
Martin second. 
WW Third
SKY JACKS and SAMICKS heaviest


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i once had medium samick extreme limbs marked 36# and they maxed out at 45# on my 25" PSE X-Factor and 28 1/2" draw....

...the manufacturer's advise on the weights of their limbs are most assuredly based on those limbs being used on their risers.....

....use them on another brand and all bets are off....


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

jmvargas said:


> use them on another brand and all bets are off....


Pretty much. Limbs vary in weight too, just because it marked a particular weight doesn't mean it IS that weight.


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## Tashaz (Jun 17, 2012)

As I seem to keep saying here, thank you for the insight gentlemen. :thumbs_up


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## xm8k36d (Oct 3, 2007)

I purchased a pair of KAP EVO II 24/26 for my old Hoyt GM 25" riser, and at 29", it turned out 29#. That is with the bolt almost to the bottom, meaning it's almost the lightest weight. It seems to me it should be 24# at 28" and around 26# at 29", and it's a bit disturbing...


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## x1440 (Jan 5, 2003)

W&W, Samick, Kaya, MK & Fivics all are measured with limb bolts maxed out. They have +10% of adjustment. That is why W&W risers come with the limb bolts maxed out. Hoyt riser limb bolts are set in the middle From the factory.

Fivics limbs are rebranded MK limbs. MK Korea is designed/owned by an ex-Samick engineer. Kaya is designed/owned by an ex-W&W engineer. GreaTree Archery is owned by Samick's former VP Jim Park and he helped out with some of MK Korea's limbs.

It also depends on riser geometry. A while back when I used my W&W limbs on my Hoyt Matrix, my bow scale showed 2 lbs less than my W&W Infinite riser with the same limbs.


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