# Barebow Verses Field or 3d Differences in Equipment



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

What you can use and how you use it really depends on the organization which is conducting the shoot.

For Field you are basically looking at either NFAA or WA. Your riser and limbs will work for either. Techniques and additional accessories vary between them though.

For 3D you could be either ASA, IBO or NFAA with different equipment and technique rules between each one, but your riser and limbs will be fine.

In short, you need to figure out who conducts the shoots you want to attend then make some choices.

-Grant


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## Dusty Lee (Jan 11, 2015)

Thanks *grantmac*, so from what you're saying it looks like I should start going to shoots and figure it out from there. Sounds about right. But, I want to look at arrows and sight and things that I NEED to buy right now! haha, just sort of kidding.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Dusty Lee said:


> Thanks *grantmac*, so from what you're saying it looks like I should start going to shoots and figure it out from there. Sounds about right. But, I want to look at arrows and sight and things that I NEED to buy right now! haha, just sort of kidding.


No 3D organisations offer a class for sighted recurve so you can remove that from your list of possibilities right now.

Really until you figure out the org you will shoot under there is nothing to buy.

-Grant


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

you can do open b or c sighted or trad unsighted in asa. open will put you with compounds. never done it but when i looked at it that was my assessment. texas asa has a busy shoot schedule this time of year.

you can do the nfaa classes in tfaa sywat series. bb, trad, lb, fslr. tfaa sywat is also going on now.

both the state entities ha field championships.

there are also some other series for trad bows and stuff. there's a lot out there i just don't do much trying to focus on target.


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## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

grantmac said:


> What you can use and how you use it really depends on the organization which is conducting the shoot.
> 
> For Field you are basically looking at either NFAA or WA. Your riser and limbs will work for either. Techniques and additional accessories vary between them though.
> 
> ...


This is the first sport I've been involved in where I need a flow chart, venn diagram, and GPS unit to figure out what equipment I can and can't use for a given event.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Try reading the rules it works


MikeG said:


> This is the first sport I've been involved in where I need a flow chart, venn diagram, and GPS unit to figure out what equipment I can and can't use for a given event.


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## gif (Jul 14, 2012)

grantmac said:


> No 3D organisations offer a class for sighted recurve so you can remove that from your list of possibilities right now.
> -Grant


IBO has MBF class, I've shot my Olympic bow before. Just throwing it out there.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

MikeG said:


> This is the first sport I've been involved in where I need a flow chart, venn diagram, and GPS unit to figure out what equipment I can and can't use for a given event.


I know that's how it feels.



> Try reading the rules it works


You left out the "for experienced archers" part at the end. 



> I should start going to shoots and figure it out from there.


This is how you become an "experienced archer" but Gary is right - reading the rules beforehand can save you a LOT of money, time and aggravation. 

John


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## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

2413gary said:


> Try reading the rules it works


I've read through NFAA, FITA, USAA, and IBO rules. That was my point. Either I need to stay flexible with weights/stabs/rests/arrows, etc or just show up and let them put me in whatever class fits, which I'm fine with at this point. It's not like I'm a threat to any field of shooters at this point. I'd just like to get a little competitive experience and learn from good shooters like yourself Gary.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Personally I just shoot a WA legal rig for everything. I'm debating on whether I'll shoot NFAA BB with it or just stick to trad.
Perhaps one day all that won't be a factor.

-Grant


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## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

grantmac said:


> Personally I just shoot a WA legal rig for everything. I'm debating on whether I'll shoot NFAA BB with it or just stick to trad.
> Perhaps one day all that won't be a factor.
> 
> -Grant


That's the way I'm leaning right now as well. Last summer when first starting to shoot I watched Eagleton's match at the FITA Barebow championships on youtube. It was like Lucy listening to Linus playing Jingle Bells. "That's it!" 

I looked into the JOAD Adult Achievement program locally just to get my scores counted somewhere other than my notebook and give me extra motivation to track and improve my progress (plus the FITA targets are a nice change). Showed up with my ILF barebow legal rig for an instruction day. The poor instructor had no idea what to do with me. From an instruction standpoint he said, "You're shooting an Olympic bow without sights, so there's no real instruction book or system for what you're doing." But he did like my target after an hour of shooting. He said I'd fit in the Olympic Recurve class. I was a little perplexed at first but after thinking about it, I'm fine with that. I'll take the Ben Rogers approach and roll with whatever the rules are.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

dusty
I shoot a bow that has a plunger and a arrow rest similar to what you have. I shoot ACC arrows with 3" plastic vanes. I do not shoot with a stabilizer. My shooting technique follows the NFAA traditional rules (but no stabilizer). By doing this I can shoot in every archery competition out there except those that require wood arrows and wood risers. I also like the field events. Also, your bow will be compliant with WA/USAA Barebow rules (no stabilizers or no sights). If you choose to shoot with the finger touching the string, you again can shoot in all the different tournaments just like the NFAA Traditional can. If you want to string/face walk, then you have to look for tournaments that allow the string/face walking. All WA/USAA events that is open to barebows allow the stringwalking. NFAA tournaments will require you to shoot the NFAA barebow class not the Traditional class.

Hope this helps


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> The poor instructor had no idea what to do with me. From an instruction standpoint he said, "You're shooting an Olympic bow without sights, so there's no real instruction book or system for what you're doing.


Idiot.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

I would be glad to help and have you on my target any day.


MikeG said:


> I've read through NFAA, FITA, USAA, and IBO rules. That was my point. Either I need to stay flexible with weights/stabs/rests/arrows, etc or just show up and let them put me in whatever class fits, which I'm fine with at this point. It's not like I'm a threat to any field of shooters at this point. I'd just like to get a little competitive experience and learn from good shooters like yourself Gary.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

MikeG said:


> That's the way I'm leaning right now as well. Last summer when first starting to shoot I watched Eagleton's match at the FITA Barebow championships on youtube. It was like Lucy listening to Linus playing Jingle Bells. "That's it!"
> 
> I looked into the JOAD Adult Achievement program locally just to get my scores counted somewhere other than my notebook and give me extra motivation to track and improve my progress (plus the FITA targets are a nice change). Showed up with my ILF barebow legal rig for an instruction day. The poor instructor had no idea what to do with me. From an instruction standpoint he said, "You're shooting an Olympic bow without sights, so there's no real instruction book or system for what you're doing." But he did like my target after an hour of shooting. He said I'd fit in the Olympic Recurve class. I was a little perplexed at first but after thinking about it, I'm fine with that. I'll take the Ben Rogers approach and roll with whatever the rules are.


Pull up the USArchery AA program achievement matrix, show them the BAREBOW scores/distances, and get on with it. I have one of my parents/AA archers who is knocking on the door of his Bronze Olympian after nearly 2 years of hard work with the barebow rig. 

USArchery included barebow in both the JOAD and AA programs a few years ago. Take advantage of it.


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## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> Pull up the USArchery AA program achievement matrix, show them the BAREBOW scores/distances, and get on with it. I have one of my parents/AA archers who is knocking on the door of his Bronze Olympian after nearly 2 years of hard work with the barebow rig.
> 
> USArchery included barebow in both the JOAD and AA programs a few years ago. Take advantage of it.


Holy cow that bronze level is some good shooting! 45 per 5 arrow end? Whoa! I wasn't tracking exact scores since it was an instructional hour, but the best I recall from yesterday was a 42 end. 45/end is really impressive. I think this guy was a little scared off with the metal riser, white limbs, and x-spot counterweight. Although my exposure is very limited at this point, compounds rule here from what I've seen. I'll get it straightened out. I wore out google on the JOAD barebow thing last night and gave up. No stabs/sights, obviously, but no mention of counterweights or the FITA barebow rules. Thanks John. 



2413gary said:


> I would be glad to help and have you on my target any day.


Thanks Gary. You guys who compete at the national level under those conditions astound me. I'd love to watch any of you guys shoot and pick your brains at some point.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Don't waste any time being astounded. Get your gear in order, practice your butt off, and come join us. Because that's where the real fun is.


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## trevorpowdrell (May 8, 2012)

?? 45 per 5 arrow end ? 

Indoor is 10 ends of 3 arrows at 40cm target - bronze is 270 a 9 average per arrow
Outdoor is 6 ends of 6 arrows at 122cm target - bronze is 270 at 50 m (7.5 average) or 215 at 70 m (close to 6 average)

Barebow rules: Book 4, Chapter 22.3, Pages 179-181
http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Document/FITA%20website/05%20Rules/01%20C&R%20Book/Book_2012/EN-Book4.pdf


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## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

trevorpowdrell said:


> ?? 45 per 5 arrow end ?
> 
> Indoor is 10 ends of 3 arrows at 40cm target - bronze is 270 a 9 average per arrow
> Outdoor is 6 ends of 6 arrows at 122cm target - bronze is 270 at 50 m (7.5 average) or 215 at 70 m (close to 6 average)
> ...


I'm used to counting ends by 5 arrows. 6 ends of 5 arrows would equal 45 per end for a 270 according to the JOAD indoor chart.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

MikeG said:


> I looked into the JOAD Adult Achievement program locally just to get my scores counted somewhere other than my notebook and give me extra motivation to track and improve my progress (plus the FITA targets are a nice change). Showed up with my ILF barebow legal rig for an instruction day. The poor instructor had no idea what to do with me. From an instruction standpoint he said, "You're shooting an Olympic bow without sights, so there's no real instruction book or system for what you're doing." But he did like my target after an hour of shooting. He said I'd fit in the Olympic Recurve class. I was a little perplexed at first but after thinking about it, I'm fine with that. I'll take the Ben Rogers approach and roll with whatever the rules are.


Grrrrr...

This is, frankly, a failure by USAA. Ironically, the USAA coaching instruction does include barebow instruction, but only for beginners. The initial barebow instruction is the foundation of the program, but it is as something to transition out of as you get better. Your local JOAD/AAP program can easily accommodate your barebow shooting for the Pin shoots, they won't even need a different target face. All they'll "need" is a different ribbon for the pins. 

And, yes, there is a real instruction book and a system (several) for what you are doing - just not by USAA. One of them is free, at FITA/World Archery:

Coaches Manual Level 1 - English

http://www.worldarchery.org/MULTIMEDIA/Publications/Bookstore-Downloads


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## Dusty Lee (Jan 11, 2015)

IBO, MF, ect. I've been slowly going through the rules, but yeah *MikeG*, I'm with you on the spreadsheet, GPS, vector analysis on figuring this out. So it looks like the best plan is to read the rules, memorize the names and meanings, go to a shoot with what I have and see what class I end up in. Actually this sounds like fun.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

USArchery "official" instruction covers very little for compound or for barebow. Our compound archers seem to have no trouble finding the podium at every event. Maybe we should be grateful we don't have barebow instruction.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> USArchery "official" instruction covers very little for compound or for barebow. Our compound archers seem to have no trouble finding the podium at every event. Maybe we should be grateful we don't have barebow instruction.


Well, there is that. NTS Barebow? I know it is doable, but after watching the video posted of Dewayne Martin and John Demmer practicing at Vegas, with their linear draws, with one shooting a totally dead release and the other shooting a classic over the shoulder, slightly exaggerated release, it is clear that BB is doing just fine with some variety of styles (though buttery soft release fingers seems to be a constant).


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## Dusty Lee (Jan 11, 2015)

Thanks *Mr. Roboto*, that does help me. And thanks to this thread I'm reading through the rules and finding a starting point for me.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

MikeG said:


> From an instruction standpoint he said, "You're shooting an Olympic bow without sights, so there's no real instruction book or system for what you're doing."


I'm with John, he's an idiot.

The problem with barebow is that almost nobody knows how to teach it and the instruction people do receive seems dedicated to frustrating the archer enough that they cave-in and put a sight on the bow. How many times do you see a beginner class where the students are shooting barebow with a low anchor and split finger?

-Grant


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## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

grantmac said:


> I'm with John, he's an idiot.
> 
> The problem with barebow is that almost nobody knows how to teach it and the instruction people do receive seems dedicated to frustrating the archer enough that they cave-in and put a sight on the bow. How many times do you see a beginner class where the students are shooting barebow with a low anchor and split finger?
> 
> -Grant


But Grant, the thing that gets me with all this is that good form is just good form. When I started last year I watched a lot of Jimmy B and MoeBow videos. They're solid. I don't care what kind of bows they're shooting or whether they're shooting 3 under or split (and yeah I'm in the 3 under camp). I can't imagine that any recurve/longbow instructor worth his salt couldn't teach good form while leaving grip and anchor points up to the student as long as they're solid and repeatable. 

Dusty, many apologies for the thread jack. I owe you a cold one... And to quote Sam Snead, I'll just go with "You dance with who you brung" when it come to equipment rules.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

MikeG said:


> But Grant, the thing that gets me with all this is that good form is just good form. When I started last year I watched a lot of Jimmy B and MoeBow videos. They're solid. I don't care what kind of bows they're shooting or whether they're shooting 3 under or split (and yeah I'm in the 3 under camp). I can't imagine that any recurve/longbow instructor worth his salt couldn't teach good form while leaving grip and anchor points up to the student as long as they're solid and repeatable.


The existing instruction doesn't leave those things up to the student, nor does it even approach the topic of idealized form vs. aiming compromises which is a hugely important aspect of barebow shooting.
Unless a person has actual hands-on experience shooting barebow and dealing with the compromises it requires at the intermediate and advanced level they really have no business doing any instruction beyond the very basics.

-Grant


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