# Read this -- Korean female archery training.



## Dacotah (Aug 9, 2002)

and here I was only working on my grip.


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## rsilvers (Jan 20, 2003)

Maybe it is all not what they really do, and is just a ruse to get others to waste time on the wrong thing. But I can believe it. When I miss a shot it is nearly always a mental failure -- I gave up mentally before the release. If I was tougher I could go longer without giving up.


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## ToxMadchen (Jan 24, 2003)

I would say it's somewhat like football players studying ballet to improve their agility, here the Korean archers are improving their focus, stamina, and ability to tune out everything but the task at hand. And archery certainly has militaristic roots, so overall training does make sense. Obviously, with such a sweeping Olympic victory by the Koreans over the past 19 years in archery, the training techniques are working, but as an armchair psychoanalyst, I disagree with the crematorium gig. Granted, it certainly seperates the weak from the strong, but psychologically I think it's cruel, and going a leeeeetle bit too far. If you are actually being trained for warfare, than yes, perhaps being exposed to and handling the dead (in a crematorium, or a morgue, for another example) may actually be an important part of training, to become acclimated to death, make you a more focused soldier. Otherwise you just end up traumatizing a child/young adult/adult who otherwise might never have had to face such things, and untreated post-traumatic stress syndrome can affect an individual for the rest of their life, and manifest itself in some wacky ways. 
Thanks for listening to my rant! 

~ToxMadchen


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## rsilvers (Jan 20, 2003)

Yeah, I would skip that also.

As far as Ballet, I think it would help archery.


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## ToxMadchen (Jan 24, 2003)

Absolutely. I've studied it for years and now that I've started archery it's helped me get up to speed on form very quickly. Previous experience with dance seems to make it a little easier to understand the physical concepts that archery incorporates. Dance is also about repetition, form, and working a series of movements that become so ingrained you don't think about them, you just do them, so that in time, it all looks effortless. Archery makes me want to study more dance!


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## recurve boy (Jan 3, 2003)

You cannot criticise their training methods since their culture is different and thus thier mentallity is different. The grave yard thing won't go down in the west but in the East, it is IMHO less likely to emotionally scar people. 

Another Korean peculiarity is that all Korean archers are RH. If you're LH you can't shoot, at least not competitively. Check it out, I've never found a picture of a LH Korean. In the West the coaches would get their asses sued for discrimination blah blah blah.


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## ToxMadchen (Jan 24, 2003)

My dear Recurve Boy, my criticism is based on my opinion, and if I want to, I do reserve the right to criticise. One of the first passions of my life was Asian culture, starting when I was 3, and at 5 I studied Chinese language and Tai Chi sword, both for the next 3 years (I was the only little white girl in the school) until my parents divorced and I no longer had the opportunity to continue my studies. My father has continued with his Tai Chi studies, and now performs in the Louisville, KY area, his most recent being for the Louisville Asian Society's Chinese New Year's celebrations. This by no means makes me an expert, and I don't presume to be, though my years of study did give me a greater understanding for another culture, and sense of compassion.
I criticise not out of ignorance or malice, rather I made my point based on the reaction described of the young female archer and her experience in the crematorium. As I said, the techniques obviously produce strong and incredibly successful archers/Olympians, otherwise they would not have the overwhelming record of wins that they do. My issue is with post-traumatic stress, something that people from all cultures can fall victim to in harrowing, gruesome circumstances, and I feel that this is one of those instances. I think that there are so many other techniques and practices that the Korean coaches are using that are tough enough, and I feel that FORCING someone to handle human remains blindfolded in the dead of night is psychologically irresponsible, no matter what culture they are born to. Again my opinion is based on the reactions and emotions described by the young Korean Olympian who experienced the macabre challenge. I mean no disrespect to Korean culture, or any other. Psychological welfare is my concern in this particular vein. Humans are humans are humans.

Now, as for the RH/LH, I didn't know that. I'm really new to archery, and even though I'm right-hand dominant, I've always lifted anything heavy with my left, and I was a left-handed paddler when I competed in white-water canoeing during high school, so most of my strength isn't in my right arm, and it makes drawing back a little frustrating some times, but shooting leftie wouldn't feel right. Anywho...  

Thanks for listening ~ Tox


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## 3dmama (Sep 25, 2002)

All I have to say about that is, if thats what it takes to be an Olympic Archer....... I will stick to 3d


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## Climbergirl15 (Jan 5, 2003)

"hiking along an open sewage ditch, sprinting with a car tire strapped to her back, floating for half an hour in frigid ocean waters and rolling commando-style in mud. But when coaches blindfolded her in the dead of night, took her to a crematorium and told her to fetch bones from the ovens" The question to me is how the hell is that going to help them shoot any better. I think they are just afraid to do bad. Archery should be fun no matter what level you are competing on. How can this be fun?


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## rsilvers (Jan 20, 2003)

They are also good there because they have more people interested in Archery to select from. And they have company teams. For example, it would be like working at Wendy's or Burger king and be on the Burger King company Archery team.


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## scooby3xs (Dec 3, 2002)

Rsilvers,

Why must you always think you are the total wealth of knowledge on the subject of archery? What part in archery do you play? Just curious......maybe you can get your girlfriend a log on here - I am sure we would love to hear from her here in the WOMEN's forum.

You said you were going to be in Andover - you planning on shooting or spectating?


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## rsilvers (Jan 20, 2003)

My girlfriend is too busy to chat in internet forums. She just worked for 31 hours straight and now is to tired to do anything. She is a medical doctor. 
Having just been to Korea I happen to know something about it.

I read an article on Korean female archery and had to decide which forum to post it in. I decided that since it was about female archery I would post it in the female section. The other qestions I posted in the female section were related to low draw weight bows for my GF, so I think it is appropriate. But if you feel that you would rather have the female section as a social area to yourselves, I can understand. It is not like I didn't think of that when posting.

BTW. I finally purchased one for her. A purple Merlin MAX3000 with silver hardware and 30-40lb draw, right hand, shoot through cables, RapidCam2, carbon long limbs. 

As for me? I do not compete but have been reading everything I can find. I would like to compete in Andover but I have to work on Sat for something really big. I may get there Sunday as a spectator.


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## scooby3xs (Dec 3, 2002)

rsilvers,

Well, I guess you were not kidding when you said you were buying a high end bow for your girlfriend. I just hope for the money you spent on the Merlin she sticks with it. And if those are the kind of hours she puts in, how is she going to find time for archery??

I personally would have started out with a PSE or Genesis to start to make sure the investment was well worth it. Also remember - it does not matter how much you spent on a bow - it does not make it shoot any better.

Also, yes I believe when this forum was set up by GRIV (by an idea from Anne), it was to be like us women's "own little place". We welcome the men opinions on certain topics but all in all - us women are becoming a close knit group who are learning from each other!


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

I have thus far stayed out of the womens forum out of respect and understanding that this section was created for the women and by the women but I must interject.......I am a male and I have lived in Korea and I am an archer. These three things put together makes me no more an expert on Korean archery training than mustard making so I wont comment on whats right/wrong.
rsilvers, maybe you should stick to what you are an expert on. By making statements like you tend to make on all of these forums, you put people off. That is my opinion.

I also think that your girlfriend should post, the women here know alot about what she is or will be going thru while learning the archery thing. Men tend to be tough teachers for those they are fond of.

Maybe you should change your picture to one of you shooting, that might be a little less abrasive.
Again, just my opinion that wasn't asked for but was given just the same.

Shoot straight.
Jon


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## ToxMadchen (Jan 24, 2003)

Climbergirl15,

I hear what you are saying, and I believe that all of the intense non-archery training is to make their bodies stronger in a very intense way, and to focus their minds so that nothing, absolutely nothing, distracts them from that target. Frankly, it makes sense, if winning is key. Take for example, The Karate Kid. Not a current example, I know, and kinda corny, but he was put through some rather silly practices that seemed totally unrelated to the art of Karate, like the ever-famous scene in which he must catch a fricking fly with a pair of chopsticks, but this was solely a means to an end, the end being incredible focus and the ability to move quickly and anticipate another's movements. If you want to look at it another way, archery is a sport, ie, you may want strength, stamina, agility, focus, even if you are all about having fun. It's got to be more fun if you are able to shoot longer, hold more steadily, stand for longer, etc., and the less you hurt, the more you can enjoy what you are doing. And training intensely can be one way of ensuring that. Also, we are talking about another culture, that seems to take winning much, much more seriously. Even in making a critique of it, it is something to keep in mind. Fun may not be as important when it comes to Olympic level and Pro-level sports, or merely incidental. I think that level of passion is similar, but Americans, as they are the "younger" of the two cultures, are more focused on fun when it comes to sports. I think when it gets down to it, we don't like to lose either, we just don't have the same structure that the Koreans do. Rsilvers made a good point that refered to archery as a team-oriented pursuit in Korea. Not to say that it isn't here, but it sounds like in Korea, it's not just playing on a team, shooting league and such, it's about training together too, and allowing whomever is leading the team to whip your *************** into an unstoppable archery machine. I could be entirely wrong, these are simply my observations. 
I believe archery should be whatever it is to each individual, though I personally don't think that it should be entirely about winning, and that may not be how the Koreans see it, I don't know. I do know that to focus on the pursuit as fun, or meditation, or spiritual, is to make it about something other than winning, which in turn can take alot of the pressure off, and in turn allow one to really connect with the pursuit itself, enjoy the journey and the experiences along the way, rather than living only for the destination of winning. Then, you can turn on the pressure when you need it, but you still have everything else that is archery, or whatever it is that you are passionate about, or enjoy. Really, it's whatever floats your boat, butters your toast, tickles your pickle. 

Whew, thanks for bearing with me through that...

And Rsilvers, I agree with Scooby, where IS your girlfriend? And I prefered your avatar better in black and white, more dramatic for a portrait. It's a little weird in colour, but that's just my opinion. 

And Scooby, go easy on the boy, I think he's just trying to hang with the girls.  I have been noticing a shocking amount of fellows posting in here though... I guess we are just too irresistible  !

Go Lady Archers!!!

~ToxMadchen


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## rsilvers (Jan 20, 2003)

Scooby,

You have good taste in bows, although I don't know much else about you. So I am not sure what to make of your statements if they are curious or hostile.

As for getting someone a nice bow as a gift, it will be worth it if she enters one 3D match with me. We hope to have lots of time to spend together and she will use it some time. I have no plans to ever replace it with a new model. It is a bow for life, unless it simply does not suit her in some physical way. I am against the disposable society and have never regretted buying quality from the start. I have been burned many times trying to save money, but less often when just getting something good from the start. And she has the same draw length as me, so I suspect I will help tune it for her quite often.


Jonnybow,

I thought you were going to interject on my behalf but I guess not. You thinking my girlfriend should post will not change the reality of her situation and lack of time. As for me being a hard teacher, I tried to ger her into lessons with me but her scedule would not allow it -- but I never planned to be her teacher. That is best done by a real coach. As for my picture magnifying the abrasiveness of my posts -- I like the picture. Do I care if people think I am abraisive? Yes, I am very sensitive.


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## scooby3xs (Dec 3, 2002)

Hey Tox! 

Well, put. Yes - his pic was better in B&W - but might be better totally removed. lol

I enjoy the other guys in the forum as long as the information is accurate from them and they are not pompus. Love to see someone like Brad Rega or River in here - easier on the eyes!

How are things in MD? Where abouts are you since we are practically neighbors! Loved what you had to say in reference to the thread!

Go lady archers.........we kick tail!

Denise


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## rsilvers (Jan 20, 2003)

ToxMadchen said:


> *
> And Rsilvers, I agree with Scooby, where IS your girlfriend? And I prefered your avatar better in black and white, more dramatic for a portrait. It's a little weird in colour, but that's just my opinion.
> *


I colorized the black and white version. It was originally a photo of me on one of my motorcycles (Purple Harley). I like purple, as does my GF. I can tell you one thing -- if my GF starts using this forum she will not be in the female section.


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## ToxMadchen (Jan 24, 2003)

Rsilvers, I was just poking fun at ya, though I was being serious about the avatar... It's my degree in art, it got the better of me, and I liked the b&w better. 
Regarding the echoed question about your girlfriend, I said that because this IS the women's forum, and we want to hear from her too. Please don't think that your girlfriend is the only one who has alot to do. I work three jobs, and I shoot archery, do my artwork, spend time with my friends, knit & crochet, try to get out into the woods to hike when I can, excersize, and ride Motorcross bikes when the weather allows it. It sounds like your GF works very hard, and is obviously no dummy having worked her way up to Medical Doctor, and NO ONE is knocking that. 
You need to understand that you were teased because you are a guy in the women's forum. Now, that doesn't mean that we don't want you in here. After all, I loved the fact that you posted that article, it was obviously incredibly thought provoking for many of us, and very much appreciated. And I personally like most of what you have brought to the table thus far, I don't think that you sound pretentious, that is just my opinion. I certainly mean no disrespect to you or your girlfriend. We were teasing you, not her, and frankly none of us knew that she had just worked 31 hours straight, how could we? I would guess that a good majority of the women in this forum have full time jobs, possibly more than one, and may have at least one child to take care of, and hopefully a special someone to share their life with. And, like your girlfriend, have to work very hard to budget their time to allow for all of the things they have to and want to do. I have neither the children nor the significant other, and it's still a challenge to find the time for all of the components of my life. 
It would be a shame and a loss to the women's archery community if your girlfriend chose not to post. I myself shoot with men, a group of guys at the range that I belong to. They are a wonderful collection of personalities, and hella fun to shoot with, and I am very proud of the ones who went to Vegas. Even though I shoot with the guys, it is nice to be able to chat with the ladies of the sport. There aren't very many of us, after all. Life is short, and I only tease people so they won't take themselves too seriously. I guess it's all the time around guys... 
By the way, I work at a Harley shop.  I myself want a sport bike though... 


~ToxMadchen


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## ToxMadchen (Jan 24, 2003)

Scooby, 

Now, now, we don't want to scare the gentlemen away completely. I think that they just need to understand that this is the Chick's chat section, and that sometimes the ladies might get a little territorial.  
I shoot at Tuscarora Archers club up in the hills in Frederick, Maryland. If you go south on 15 from Harrisburg, it goes right through Frederick, and that's where we are at.  


~Tox


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## scooby3xs (Dec 3, 2002)

Hey Tox,

Never want to scare away any men! They are our wealth of information. Actually I have made friends with a few who have posted on our forum cause of the ruckus.  Anyway, I have made my peace and will go back to my little corner of the world and do what I do best.....shoot. Life is too short! I know exactly where you are.

Denise


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## Ten-ring (Feb 16, 2003)

If someone is looking for a non-archery activity that would help them with archery, they may wish to consider a martial art. I am sure any of them would help. I studied Aikido for nine years, and even though I no longer practice it, it has helped me with archery because it emphasizes balance, control (both mental and physical), focus and breathing.

(A side note to my Aikido experience. When you rondori (you are attacked and must defend yourself), there is no separation by gender or by weight class. You may find yourself being attacked by men and women, light weights and heavyweights.)


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## bowtech_babe (Jun 7, 2002)

Tox,

I agree, let's not scare the men off You know they sneak peaks in the women's forum like little peeping tom's and I for one have NO problem with that. Kinda gives a good feeling that they will read what we post.

Gals,

In defense of rsilvers pic, he changed it because I pm'd him about it. I told him he looked TOO serious and suggested that he should change it to something with more color.

But, snubbing us with his "trophy woman" was a little much and I agree with Tox about others on here having the "time crunch" problem in life. I am a nurse (they run weird hours too) and I have a husband; sharing life with two children. No I don't have a whole lotta time either and because others here that aren't a medical doctor doesn't we disregard them just the same.

Scooby,

Yeah a retraction of your claws might be in order ROTF. Remind me not to tick you off 

GUYS,

You all not posting or reading is as ridiculous as a three legged dog trying to bury a turd on a frozen lake. Keep 'em coming, we love ya'll 

Samantha Smith


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## recurve boy (Jan 3, 2003)

ToxMadchen said:


> *Also, we are talking about another culture, that seems to take winning much, much more seriously. *


That's an understatement. I heard in Korea, archery is the *2nd* most popular sport after taekwando. 

All those rumors about the Koreans are true:

http://www.texasarchery.org/eletters/20020315.htm#article3


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## ToxMadchen (Jan 24, 2003)

Well, Rock On to the Koreans! As I said before, whatever butters your toast. Their tenacity is extremely impressive, and I'm definitely not being sarcastic. Thanks for the link to the Texas article, RecurveBoy, much appreciated!

BB (Samantha) & Scooby,
It sounds like we are on the same wave-length, Ladies! Certainly wouldn't want to scare them away, at least not too far away  . Though as far as the avatars go, I think we all ought to back off on Rsilvers, Personally I'm glad that he posted the image w/his girlfriend, now we know she exists! And if you've got a trophy, why not show it off? I'd be flattered if I were her. Some men are too jealous to post any images of their lady-loves. And whenever she has a moment to say hello, we will certainly welcome her, without a doubt.

Ten-ring,
Studying Martial Arts is a very good suggestion, and an excellent way to develop a very strong understanding of body mechanics, breathing techniques, etc. I would also say that Martial Arts would be a more psychologically comfortable pursuit for the male archers. Though I'm a big supporter of studying dance and yoga, I know alot of men who (sadly) wouldn't set foot in a dance studio, or a yoga class, it has way too much of a stigma. But a Karate class, or Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, that's a different story. 
A word of caution though to any guys or gals reading this: Martial Arts has been guilty of training students with methods of stretching techniques that can be very damaging. Damaging in the sense that according to current Sports Medicine, you won't last as long as you would if you used different approaches. Really all that this means is that if you have a teacher who insists that you "bounce" in a stretch, this is wrong!!!  For instance, if you are trying to touch your toes and bouncing to reach them. Unless you are an athlete in peak-physical condition, excersizing and training at least three or more hours a day, you can do some serious damage to your body this way, and yes, you may get more flexible in a shorter amount of time, but you will pay later on. Stretch gently, hold in the stretch for at least 20 seconds, and always breath into a stretch, don't hold your breath. The end all is that your tendons, ligament, etc., will last longer, and you will be able to put more miles on your body, and have less pain. Other than that, Martial Arts is a great way to go. For those interested in the sport, just make sure you do some research, do your homework, and find a good, reputable club. Bottom line, challenge yourself, and be healthy and safe in the process. 


~Tox


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

I'm know I'm not one of the gals but as to Rsilvers new avitar I would like to say the new one is MUCH better than the original one. (sorry Tox, gotta disagree) The first one looked like you were ready to kill someone or something like that. It was scary man. (No Offense meant) The only reason I bring this up is he does post alot in the other section and I really don't want to have to look at that pic everywhere again!


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## Dusty Britches (Feb 10, 2003)

Dawn Chudy, Texas A&M Archer, went head to head with the Koreans last year. If I remember correctly, she either beat them or came in 2nd.

And we don't make her bite snakes or carry dead people's bones in the dark. We do make them run, so is that close enough?


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

I'll be taking Tai Chi for full body muscle control. Archery is a full body sport, contrary to what some may believe, when shooting we are rooted to the ground by feet, and if we can channel our energy and use or bodies effectively I believe that we would infact be better archer's. Another faction from Zen Buddist point of veiw, To calm the mind is to calm the body, as in tai chi the mind controls the bodies functions. Also.. "Simplicity". Good shooting. 
Dylan
PS. Simon Fairweather 2000 gold medalist is a student of Yoga, if you watch him in the match play, he was like a stone. Not even an eye blink.


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## XXXBowHo (Mar 17, 2003)

I learned archery in Asia and shot with Kim Kyung Wook and other top Koreans. K.K. Wook's English wasn't very good but I asked her if she enjoyed shooting archery. She looked at me and said quite clearly: "Archery is a job." In other words, it is not meant to be fun. I have to say, a gold medal is not worth giving up the enjoyment of shooting a bow and arrow. I think athletes can enjoy what they do AND win gold medals. Just my two cents.


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