# advise on back bar



## Carbofastdirect (Nov 25, 2013)

I'd try different lengths if I was you, stabilization is a personnel thing what works for me or somebody else mightn't be for you. What I will say is that be going with a shorter bar you would need more weight for the same stabilization effect, so if you'd prefer to keep the bow mass weight down a longer bar would help slightly


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

12 or 14" back bar would matter little, but understand, length can not exceed 12" on a straight line from point of attachment. Length includes connection devise. 14" could be used if angled as to not exceed 12" on a straight line.


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Can't have a 14 inch BHFS i believes states 12 inches from the front mount face of the stab mount. String distance from center of front stab mount.


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

So a sphere from the front stab mount 12 inches in radius all stab appendages must be inside


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Joe, not enough pictures or explained in the NFAA rules. 12" on a straight line is given for front stabilizer. No length is given for back bars. I well seems I am in error of the angle description.... 

NFAA; "One straight stabilizer, coupling device included if used, which cannot exceed 12 inches at any time, as measured from the back of the bow, V-bar, counterbalance and string dampeners may be used."

Found several Posts stating any length of back bar. Can not touch the body. Can not interfere with adjacent shooter.

Rule came into effect over string dampers (STS) devices - accused of being the same as back bars. Real stupid, I thought. I am not against string dampers/STS devices. If it was up to me back bars would not be allowed and the return of 5" for fixed sights. Not overly bashful or shy I berated both the allowed back bars and removal of sight length of 5" in our IAA yearly meeting.


----------



## brad91x (Jul 12, 2013)

My front is only 12" with qd and weight I'm wondering about the side bar


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Sorry was using iBooks specific riles for bow hunter most use this in our area as they have many ibo events


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Nfaa pt 1
Competitive Bowhunter: 1. This style of shooting is for those with heavy tackle equipment used during hunting activities. Junior Bowhunters shall not be recognized. 2. No device of any type (including arrow rest), that may be used for sighting, may be used or attached to the archer’s equipment. 3. There shall be no device, mechanical or otherwise, in the sight windows except the arrow rest and/or cushion plungers. 4. Any part of the arrow rest extending more than 1⁄4 inch above the arrow shaft is deemed illegal in the Competitive Bowhunter style. 5. An arrow plate extending more than 1⁄4 inch above the arrow is deemed illegal in the Competitive Bowhunter style. 6. No clickers, drawchecks, or levels will be allowed. No laminations, marks, or blemishes may appear in the sight window.


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

brad91x said:


> My front is only 12" with qd and weight I'm wondering about the side bar


Until someone finds a NFAA RIC ruling this is it;

NFAA; "One straight stabilizer, coupling device included if used, which cannot exceed 12 inches at any time, as measured from the back of the bow, V-bar, counterbalance and string dampeners may be used."

Found several Posts stating any length of back bar. Can not touch the body. Can not interfere with adjacent shooter.


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Still looking


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Sonny is correct . Just for reference the other organizations like IBO and Asa use the sphere rule so unless nfaa is all you shoot setting up a rig that you will not be forced to change at any tournament for your chosen class is probably best.


----------



## brad91x (Jul 12, 2013)

My first shoot is next weekend at the mid west open so I wanna make sure I'm all legal..


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

If no one chimes in contact field14. He just replied in the "What did you do today?" post.


----------



## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

The Midwest Open follows NFAA rules, according to their website, so check the NFAA rulings on BHFS and rear stab lengths. 

Under Article II of the NFAA Constitution & By-Laws
F. Freestyle Bowhunter:
1. A maximum of (5) five fixed reference points: Points of attachment shall not be considered
reference points. A line running vertically from its top attachment in the pin guard to its
bottom attachment in the pin guard would be legal. Sighting reference points, string peep
(with or without a lens) and/or kisser button may not be moved during a round. Scopes,
clickers and draw checks are not allowed. A round or oval housing around the points of
reference is not considered a scope as long as no lens is used. No additional pin guard may
be used. A sight pin consisting of a housing with a hole through it, that does not contain a
fixed reference point within the hole, is not allowed.
2. Release aids will be permitted. In the case of physical disability of the arms or hands, a
chew strap may be used in place of fingers or release aids.
3. A pinguard mounted on the sight, and a level mounted anywhere will be legal in this style
of shooting, provided that there are no additional marks or blemishes on either of these
items that could be used for sighting.
4. A string of suitable material with a center serving and end servings of the same or different
color than the string may be used. One consistent nocking point only is permitted. Nocking
point locators shall not extend more than ½ inch above or below the arrow nock when at
full draw. Brush buttons and string silencers properly attached will be legal.
5. One anchor point only is permitted.
6. All arrows shall be identical in size, length, weight, and fletching with allowances for wear
and tear.
7. Brush buttons, string silencer, positioned no closer than midway between the nocking point
and where the string touches the wheel/cam, and bow quiver installed on the opposite side
of the sight window, with no part of the quiver or attachments visible in the sight window
are legal. One straight stabilizer, coupling device included if used, which cannot exceed 12
inches at any time, as measured from the back of the bow, V-bar, counterbalance and string
dampeners may be used.
8. An archer will not be permitted to change the draw weight of the bow during a round.
9. During a round no adjustments may be made to the bow and its related equipment unless
equipment failure is recognized.

So, like someone already stated, as long as it does not touch your body or interfere with another shooter (covered under general rules), you can use any length rear/side bar you wish. In the future, I would strongly recommend downloading a copy of the rules for each organization you shoot under and learn them ahead of time and not wait until a week or two before your competition.....


----------



## 60435 (Mar 20, 2012)

you will be ok , unless you win your not planning on winning r u???


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

montigre said:


> 7. Brush buttons, string silencer, positioned no closer than midway between the nocking point
> and where the string touches the wheel/cam, and bow quiver installed on the opposite side
> of the sight window, with no part of the quiver or attachments visible in the sight window
> are legal. One straight stabilizer, coupling device included if used, which cannot exceed 12
> ...


What I "love" about the NFAA. Some rules so tightly guarded God can't challenge and then a rule with a "loop hole" 5 miles diameter.


----------



## brad91x (Jul 12, 2013)

Well yea I plan on winning !!!!!


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Good Luck!


----------



## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> What I "love" about the NFAA. Some rules so tightly guarded God can't challenge and then a rule with a "loop hole" 5 miles diameter.


Actually my thoughts when this was presented as an agenda item, was why have the BHFS division at all if it is eventually going to end up allowing everything that is already allowed in the FS division... but that's another story....LOL!


----------



## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> What I "love" about the NFAA. Some rules so tightly guarded God can't challenge and then a rule with a "loop hole" 5 miles diameter.





montigre said:


> Actually my thoughts when this was presented as an agenda item, was why have the BHFS division at all if it is eventually going to end up allowing everything that is already allowed in the FS division... but that's another story....LOL!


How is it 5 miles wide? 1 clearly defined front stab and the obvious fact that a 30" rear stab is not an unfair advantage (or any advantage at all) makes for a lower cost class to get folks involved in competitive archery. I started competing with a11.99" front and a set of v-bars and a bunch in our club do the same. I expect that BHFS will never have glass or a longer front stab so it won't evolve to be a pseudo FS class. Just my two cents.


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I merely pointed out the NFAA is "iron fisted" with some rules and loose with others. 

A loop hole because the NFAA virtually overhauled the FSBH overnight, not exactly, but close. Sight length rule removed and the next counter balances allowed where they expressly not allowed before. FSBH shows up using a Sure Loc movable sight frame. Squabble comes forth. New NFAA book has removed the once pictured 5" limit fixed sight. Ruling comes; As long as he doesn't move the sight after completion starts he's legal. People throw a fit. They want the event held up so every FSBH has their sight checked for lens. Next event, same person decides to shoot FS with his SFBH set up. Ruling; He can...

The IBO defines back bars, see above. The ASA defines back bars in another manner; "Stabilizer Rule: A front stabilizer or a system including quick releases, enhancers and/or weights may be used, but may not exceed twelve inches (12”) in total length from the tip of the stabilizer (or system) to the point of attachment on the front of the riser provided by the manufacturer. "A rear stabilizer or counter balance weight system may be used with a maximum of two extensions. Due to the use of V-bars and varying points of attachment the length of the rear stabilizer is not to extend further than six inches (6”) past a point measured from the back of the riser below the grip toward the strings."


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

are you using a down angle bracket? If not, try it..you may find you don't need a back bar.

but in your case, I'd go with a 12" bar. The difference between 12"/14" isn't going to make a significant difference.


----------



## Matthew Warren (Oct 1, 2014)

I shoot NFAA-BHFS class as well, my set-up may be a bit odd.. but I tend to hold on target better with a longer side-bar than front, I shoot 9"s (excluding weights) out front and 10"s off the side. For me it tends to hold better.. but it took months of playing to get it right. I guess the main question is.. why do you feel the need to change the back-bar length? Is your hold/float a little off?


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

"it took months of playing to get it right"

you hit the nail on the head with that one statement. So many people will put some weigh on or a bar or or attach X rod, X pin, X widget and never really give it a chance to work. 

Anytime you change something on your bow there is the possibility that the simple change to something different will induce a mindset that causes positive results....bow manufacturers use this to their advantage. You go in, shoot a different bow and "wow, I've never shot that well", a few weeks go by and you're back to old groups--"something is wrong with the bow"....nope, YOU had time to go back to your old ways.

I changed stab length and weight on my Supra a month ago simply because I didn't have a side bar that day...so my normal short front rod went to the side, my long rod from my recurve went on front. It actually felt good so I left it. Well, guess what I'm noticing now...I'm dropping below the gold. So, after a month of shooting that setup I'm just now having to add weight to the back bar OR change tillering OR change angle.


----------



## brad91x (Jul 12, 2013)

I'm fairly new to this and most my misses are left or right that's where most my move meant is


----------



## brad91x (Jul 12, 2013)

I've been messing around with angle and position but was just curious if a longer back bar would make a difference this is all trial and error for me


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

take the side bar off
take all the weight off the front
take your sight off.

step up to 10 yards or so...blank bale for a while.

Have someone pay attention to the end of the front bar and note how it wiggles. This will indicate where your problem is...could be follow through, could be grip, could be other stuff.

If all you do is add weight here, change stab there, change angle here etc...you're masking the problem.


As often as I tell people to spend a few weeks working on this, you really don't need to ONLY blank bale with removing weight etc... half the ends during your session is fine. Your only interest should be identifying the source of the wiggle and controling it without a bandaid.

you'll be shocked at how your float will shrink with this one little exercise.

I'll tell you this...most people refuse to do the above drills...it takes time, dedication and isn't much fun. But those who do end up identifying issues they didn't know they had-- and often reduce the required weight for stabilization.

Edit...forget what WE think your back bar change should be- archery is a results oriented sport. Test for a while, see what improves score.


----------



## brad91x (Jul 12, 2013)

Thanks for the advise I'll give it a try like I said I'm new to it and sure I'm doing things wrong


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

being new is perfect. You have no bad habits to overcome. If you''ll learn effective drills, don't buy into marketing hype, realize that this is one of the hardest sports you'll ever get into...you'll do very well. The eye hand coordination, strength, stamina, determination is like no other sport....no matter how much money you have- you can't buy skills.


----------

