# Olympic vs Hunting Recurve



## DannyRO (Apr 17, 2009)

A bow dealer told me that a 38-40 lbs olympic recurve like Sebastien Flute Axiom is the equivalent of a 50-55 lbs hunting recurve like Samick Red Stag or Lightning (Nighthawk). And they do not recommend a bow so heavy for a beginner / intermediate archer. 
I thought that a 40 pound recurve is 40 and another "hunting type recurve" 50 is heavier… 

Any ideea about this statement?


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I was talking with Sid at Border Archery about this and my 48# short Winex ILF limbs, when comparing these limbs on my 19" wooden Pinnacle riser to my Italian made 25" Nilo Riser I was a little surprized that even though the Nilo limb setting was around 3-4# less than on the Pinnacle Riser the Nilo was the faster bow (note I'm using same arrows), I was kind of expecting the shorter wood riser and heavier limb preload on the limbs would give me a faster arrow but it wasn't the case.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Danny, 

I think what your dealer was giving you what we call a "loaded answer". 

Other than the force curve and the possibility that the bow will "stack" (rapidly increase in weight at the back of the draw), X number of pounds is equal to X number of pounds. The type of bow can contribute slightly to the perceived difficulty of drawing a particular weight, but I haven't ever encountered a situation where one bow felt as heavy as a bow rated ten pounds higher. In most cases, I'd say that the reverse might be true, and that a target bow, with its long limbs and stable riser design, should feel lighter, pound for pound.

Can't say for sure, but he may have been talking about a few different things.

A) Target recurves tend to be pretty efficient, so they might produce faster arrow speeds than *some* hunting bows. There are some fast hunting bows around. The target recurves can tolerate really low arrow weights, however, so they can achieve very high velocities well above 200 fps safely (remember, recurves aren't as fast as compounds, typically).

B) What he said might have had something to do with the purpose of each bow. Often, people won't shoot hundreds of arrows through their hunting bow in one practice session. It happens, sure, but a heavier hunting bow's primary mission is to shoot an arrow that'll cleanly take game, not to allow a shooter to put his best hundred holes in a target face. The weight that'll work for twenty to fifty shots isn't always the same as the weight that'll work for a few hundred. When you look at hunters, 45-55# is right there in the normal range. You have to be a practiced and confident target archer to want to go much over 40# for a long tournament. 

In general, it was a confusing and sloppy analogy, but I believe that's what the person was driving at. You have to look at what you'll be doing with the bow and pick the weight that'll best accomplish the task. If you want high volume, critical practice, you can't fatigue after a few dozen shots. If you're training to hunt, and you're capable of shooting a few dozen QUALITY practice shots a session, that might be sufficient. Thus, the different weight requirements.

Ideally, most people who begin shooting stickbows should start with a weight that is comfortable, one that'll allow them to practice a lot without soreness or fatigue getting in the way. There's enough of a learning curve already without having to struggle against a bow that's too heavy. Many beginning shooters will find a bow of 25-35# to be a good starting weight, but there are exceptions. It has a lot to do with stature, latent strength, general health, previous archery experience, etc.

Hope that helps,

Patrick


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## DannyRO (Apr 17, 2009)

Thank you Patrick:thumbs_up . I felt this ideas but you made it clear.

Danny


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

DannyRO said:


> A bow dealer told me that a 38-40 lbs olympic recurve like Sebastien Flute Axiom is the equivalent of a 50-55 lbs hunting recurve like Samick Red Stag or Lightning (Nighthawk).


Lol! What rubbish that is, the Axiom are an entry/budget level limb. To get the speeds that some quote you need to buy the top ILF limbs, big $$. The dealer was stretching the truth a bit.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Destroyer said:


> The dealer was stretching the truth a bit.



He was on the right track but his numbers were a little exagerated.

this is what Sid from Border said to me on another forum.....


*"the energy lost in stack can mean that the 3-4lbs gained is not worth the gain. your holding the weight but there is no substance behind it due to the rapid drop away.
40lbs down to 35lbs in the first inch is poor, (5lbs of drop is a bit radical, but is shows what im trying to say) it gives an average power in that last inch of 37.5lbs. and if you include the second inch this gets worse.
if you have a bow that only dropped 1lbs in that first inch, then you could hold 2lbs less and staill come out with a similar average draw.
38lbs becomes 37lbs but still is 37.5lbs average.

So for example, 40 drops 3lbs to 37, drops by 2.5lbs to 34.5lbs
or 38lbs dropping 2lbs dropping 1.8lbs = 34.2lbs

So in the second inch of thrust, the smoother bow is hauling in at 34.2lbs of push, while the stacky bow is 2lbs heavier and is only 0.3lbs more push.

This range of risers thats available now is why we have gone MEGA smooth. so that our limbs handle a range of risers better.
Avoid stack and avoid this problem is our theory.

this is one reason why short bows are not always best, you might have to haul a horrible weight for no gain!

one reason why short limbs work on longer risers but not on short riser... short bows hit stack quicker, and sounds like your hitting stack especially with your shorter riser. "*


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Danny -

No way you (or he) can make that kind of a generalization. Most Olympic / ILF rigs from major manufacturers will be within a fps of each other, as long as the parameters such as arrow weight, brace height and general tune are kept constant. I have limbs costing from $130 to over $600 from the same manufacturer and the greatest difference in speed is 5 fps. That's with very light target arrows, designed for accuracy at distance. There's actually a greater difference in speed based on riser design, going from a flexible single beam riser to a more rigid type tec riser. 

"Hunting bows" are a different animal. Are talking about an ILF bow, which follows the same design specs as an Olympic bow, a "custom" bow made by a mom and pop type shop or a vintage bow? 

Yes, the stack point that Steve referred is a factor as well. 

The other factor is that every bow design has a peak weight for efficiency. Most bows start loosing efficiency in the 55 - 60# range. (Jack Howard did a lot of research on this in the 1960s.) That doesn't mean that going heavier won't give you more power, it means that after a certain point, the amount of work you're putting in doesn't directly translate into the amount of work coming out on the business end. IOWs, you'll get more of an efficiency gain going from 30 - 50# than from 50 - 70#, with proportionally weighted arrows. 

Viper1 out.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Well, my 40lb ILF bow shoots a proper arrow at 203fps/avg. I have never seen anything like that from any of my hunting bows. But would I hunt with the 40lb ILF rig, the answer is no. (some do and that's fine with me) Arrows that shoot well from my 50/55lb bows are heavy cutting tools and thats what I want when hunting and taking typical short range shots.

I think the man was trying to keep you from making the mistake of being overbowed. That's actually creative on his part IMHO.


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## DannyRO (Apr 17, 2009)

Thank you my friends for your answer(s). All the Best for you!

Danny


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