# Carbon Impact information.



## dchan

Since there has been a lot of talk about how good a deal the Carbon Impact's are for beginners I thought I'd post some more detail of information I've gathered.

What's included..

All prefletched arrows and shafts from carbon impact come WITH all components. (points, nocks, fletches) You do NOT need to order each part separately.
You can purchase just Superclub shafts and they also come with all components EXCEPT vanes/Fletches.

Configurations

Superclubs come with brass points and carbon impact press in nocks these only come small grove
Ultrafasts come with Stainless break off points, Pin's and Pin nocks. You can get small and large groove.

Ultrafast Green have a tolerance of +/- .003"
Ultrafast Orange have a tolerance of +/- .004"
Ultrafast Yellow have a tolerance of +/- .006"
Ultrafast Yellow can be purchased prefletched.

Sizes and uncut length

Super Club 5/15 (1500 spine) - 27 3/4"
Super Club 10/20 (1200 spine) - 28 3/4"
Super Club 15/25 (950 spine) - 30 1/4"
Super Club 20/30 (820 spine) - 30 3/4"
Super Club 30/40 (620 spine) - 31 3/4"
Super Club 40/50 (500 spine)- 32 3/4"

Ultra Fast 1500 - 27 3/4"
Ultra Fast 1200 - 28 3/4"
Ultra Fast 950 - 30 1/4"
Ultra Fast 820 30 3/4"
Ultra Fast 710 31 1/4"
Ultra Fast 620 31 3/4"
Ultra Fast 550 32 1/4"
Ultra Fast 500 32 3/4"
Ultra Fast 450 33 1/4"
Ultra Fast 400 33 1/4"


Prices - MSRP per doz

Superclub shafts = 72.73
Superclub arrows = 78.33
Ultrafast Shafts Yellow label = 86.74
Ultrafast Shafts Orange label = 95.48
Ultrafast Shafts Green label = 110.32
Ultrafast Arrows Yellow label = 97.94

Dealers may have discounted prices. Don't forget to add extra for cutting and assembly if you don't have the means or tools to do so. Also add shipping if you don't have a "free shipping" offer.

This spine chart from their website. As with most spine charts, it gets you in the ball park. I find theirs also spines a little stiff but it's very reasonable considering most archers looking at the superclubs are beginner/intermediates. 









And a link to the Carbon Impact Website.


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## ryan b.

This is great information. Thank you very much.


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## limbwalker

Excellent info there. Any suggestions on the best place to order UltraFast arrows/shafts? 

I first saw these at the 2005 ATA show in Indy, where I met Pierre (the inventor of the all-carbon arrow, and former pres. of Beman arrows). He seemed like a good guy, and his product really meets a need for so many beginning and intermediate archers on a budget.

SuperClubs and UltraFasts are incredibly light for their respective spine, which also helps us get kids out to their distances with the least possible draw weight. This helps us avoid injury and gradually ease them into the sport which is great for everyone. It's not often a single product makes such a difference in a sport, but IMO, the SuperClubs do just that. I've started nearly every one of my JOAD and even AA archers on them in the past 4 years, and even had one student recently make the World Field Team in Junior Barebow, shooting SuperClubs.


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## dchan

John, Check your PMs


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## Greysides

What construction are the Super Clubs? Pultruded?

Thanks.


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## BobCo19-65

Anyone have an outside diameter chart? Website does not seem to provide one.


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## williamskg6

Greysides said:


> What construction are the Super Clubs? Pultruded?
> 
> Thanks.


I'm not sure what construction method is used, but they don't appear pultruded. They also don't look quite like a wrapped & sanded tube either. They have an appearance different than any other carbon arrows I've seen in-person. Should be the same construction method as the UltraFasts, which I also don't know. 

-Kent W.


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## williamskg6

BobCo19-65 said:


> Anyone have an outside diameter chart? Website does not seem to provide one.


Lancaster lists the following:

• OUTSIDE DIAMETER
(10/20) .203"
(15/25 & 20/30) .218"
(30/40 & 40/50) .234"

In summary, they're skinny.

-Kent W.


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## williamskg6

limbwalker said:


> Excellent info there. Any suggestions on the best place to order UltraFast arrows/shafts?


What John said. I'd like to try to switch to Ultrafasts and I'm not sure where the best place is to get them.

-Kent W


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## limbwalker

They are woven carbon and for that reason are incredibly tough but still very light. The perfect arrow for the beginning and intermediate target archer. I'd be half my JOAD club is shooting Super Clubs right now, even many of the adults.


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## Dacer

Email/call carbon impact directly - they will be happy to take your order.

They are a very tough shaft


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## dchan

As far as orders direct, I think it kind of depends on if you have a local retailer that carries the arrow you are looking for. At least that's what they asked me before they took my first order.

I think this is Fair enough.. They don't need to be underselling the brick and mortars that are supporting them. Since few dealers carry the ultrafast line including Lancaster, they will probably be more than willing to sell you those.

Be forewarned however. Because of the extremely high demand for these arrows, there can often be back order issues with Carbon Impact. (I think Lancaster has a back order listing for most sizes right now) They have commitments to some of their larger dealers that they need to fill. That being said, They have been very reasonable with trying to take care of me quickly.


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## dchan

re diameter, good question. I'll ping Jennifer (who gave me the raw length's data) and report back.

DC


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## grantmac

Greysides said:


> What construction are the Super Clubs? Pultruded?
> 
> Thanks.


They are visually very similar to a type of carbon tube construction known as filament wound. But I do believe they also have an inner construction which is wrapped.

Either way they don't break like typical carbon arrows do, very little chance of splinters.

-Grant


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## Greysides

John and Grant, thanks. That's my last concern calmed. It would be great now if we could get a local distributor.


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## dchan

Greysides said:


> John and Grant, thanks. That's my last concern calmed. It would be great now if we could get a local distributor.


Email them. When I was talking to Jennifer yesterday, she mentioned that she was working on a large order headed to the UK. They may have a distributor closer to you.

DC


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## drn

Hello 

My daughter and I have been shooting 15/25's and they have held up nicely...however, recently, MY 15/25's have been grouping erratically and I believe that this is due to several THOUSAND shootings of them. I am ordering more of them because I know that they group well for several thousand shots and I am very happy that they can sell these within the price range of beginners. Shot-for-shot, $-for-$, I believe that these are a very good value and are very light in weight allowing longer distances down range.


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## limbwalker

grantmac said:


> They are visually very similar to a type of carbon tube construction known as filament wound. But I do believe they also have an inner construction which is wrapped.
> 
> Either way they don't break like typical carbon arrows do, very little chance of splinters.
> 
> -Grant


Oh, I think Pierre learned his lesson about pultruded shafts and splinters very well.


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## dchan

Just getting back to this.

FYI for those of you building your own strings, For beginners, using b55 or b50 dacron string. 

I have found that 10 strands and .014" center serving is perfect for the CI, Super club's insert nocks. 12 strand is a little tight but works.

I have to build a couple of 8125 strings so will report back on those after I test a few fits.


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## bobnikon

dchan said:


> Just getting back to this.
> 
> FYI for those of you building your own strings, For beginners, using b55 or b50 dacron string.
> 
> I have found that 10 strands and .014" center serving is perfect for the CI, Super club's insert nocks. 12 strand is a little tight but works.
> 
> I have to build a couple of 8125 strings so will report back on those after I test a few fits.


I have been using 14 strands 8125 with .019 serving with my sons arrows.

Cheers


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## Unk Bond

Hello
I am shooting (15/25 & 20/30) .218"
And really like them. [ Later


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## bowgal

I find that the nocks seem to fit tight on the compound youth bows. Too tight in fact. Is there a large groove nock for CI's or to I need to tell parents I need to reserve their kids bow after they just unloaded money on
some arrows that are spined perfect but do not fit the string>>>> 

Bowgal


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## dchan

Unfortunatly that's the only press in nock size.

However, You can order pins for carbon impacts that fit standard pin nocks.

The ultra fast shafts come with pins and pin nocks.

It may be a better option than reserving all the kids bows since they can be swapped for any other pin nocks.

Be aware however, if you had a "perfect spine" for their bows, switching to a pin nock from the press in nock, will effectively stiffen the dynamic spine of the arrow.


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## dchan

After talking with Jennifer at Carbon Impact, she makes a good point that the cost of purchasing pins and inserts, just so you can shoot superclubs really defeats any cost savings. Adding the cost of pins and pin nocks brings the price of the super club almost to the price of the ultrafasts and you get straighter arrows in the process with more choices of spines in between some of the stiffer ranges.

DC


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## dchan

String configurations for Super club Nocks.

If you like your nocks snug, Not loose so they slide up and down,

14 strands of 8125 (original) and Halo .014 is just about right.


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## StarDog

I have been shooting a set of 15/25 28.5" (26.75 AMO draw, 28 lbs although I may be overestimating my draw weight a little) and they take a licking' and keep in tickin' even if I hit the wooden frame at 50 or 60 yards. Not one of them behaves badly and I haven't broken one yet. I use 14 strand Angel dyneema string. I think I will stick with Carbon Impact forever.


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## Arron

I had noticed this thread awhile ago and had thought about picking up some Super Clubs to give them a try. I just got 6 last week and I was pleasantly surprised by them. For the price certainly a nice arrow.


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## wfocharlie

The biggest problem I have had with them is the brass points. If you shoot in public bales that may have arrow parts or any other metal in them, these brass points are easily damaged. Its actually pretty surprising how often this has happened to me. That being said it is pretty cheap and easy to replace a point so not a big issue.


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## dchan

wfocharlie said:


> The biggest problem I have had with them is the brass points. If you shoot in public bales that may have arrow parts or any other metal in them, these brass points are easily damaged. Its actually pretty surprising how often this has happened to me. That being said it is pretty cheap and easy to replace a point so not a big issue.


If you are purchasing those points direct from Carbon Impact, you can always purchase the SS points. They are quite a bit harder and not that much more expensive. ask for UltraFast points. See in the matrix in my earlier post for matching spines. If you need the exact carbon impact part number, I can find them or you can call Jennifer and I'm sure she would be happy to get you the right part.


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## StarDog

Dchan: good to know about the points. I have buried a couple into the wooden target stand at 50 meters and had to dig the arrow out with no apparent damage to the point. Of course the gentlemen who are shooting them are pulling more weight than I and that may explain why I am not having a problem with the brass points. However I am going to keep the SS points in mind when I get more Superclubs.


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## dchan

I know exactly what WFO Charlie is talking about. Since I have the lovely task of shuffling our targets (we have a few of the elastafoam targets at our range) I have come across all kinds of things left in the targets. Broadheads, old crimp on points, nails, BB's, CO2 pellets, I have even found a steel can top folded in half by being hit by an arrow and wedged into the bale. If we replace these bales with foam again, I have been tempted to put a steel plate cover on the bale with a combo padlock. Then we can give the combo out to only people that will respect the bales and only shoot target points at it.

I've destroyed more arrows by hitting hard objects in the bales than I care to think about. Even a 10lb bow can damage an arrow when it hits something that hard.


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## dchan

Phone number 
231-929-8152


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## dchan

2015 MSRP on arrows.

Prices - MSRP per doz

Superclub shafts = 74.13
Superclub arrows = 81.13
Ultrafast Shafts Yellow label = 88.84
Ultrafast Shafts Orange label = 96.88
Ultrafast Shafts Green label = 110.32
Ultrafast Arrows Yellow label = 100.04

Ultrafast Pin Nocks are 8.33/Doz
The Ultrafast Pins are 11.13/doz
SS Ultrafast Points 16.73/doz

Super Club press in nocks are 5.53/doz
and SC Points are 11.13/Doz

Carbon Impact Vanes are 12.60/100

So if you buy Super club arrows and add pins and nocks from Ultrafasts 
81.13+11.13+8.33= 100.59/doz
And you have to take apart the SC's and glue in the pins and assemble

So it's cheaper to buy the Ultra Fast's at 100.04 and you get the upgraded points and straighter rated arrows.

If you purchase as shafts and assemble yourself the shafts come with all the components, so you would be throwing away the press in nocks to replace them with the pins and nocks and still paying close to if not more than just purchasing the Ultra fast shafts. 

If you buy the Ultrafast shafts, they come with all the components as well. You just add vanes/fletches

Bottom line is if you are going to get Carbon Impacts AND you are wanting the Pin nocks specifically, Get the Ultrafasts. At $100.04 per doz it's still a bargain considering they have vanes, Pins and nocks all assembled. All you have to do is cut them (if necessary) and glue in the points. (they come with points)


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## Ms.Speedmaster

We just became a Carbon Impact dealer as we sell a lot of the Super Clubs. Have ordered some Ultra Fasts for my son to try on his compound bow, too. 

Incredible value for money, all the way around.


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## StarDog

I just had the nicest conversation with Jennifer over at Carbon Impact re: ordering Ultrafasts. BTW: she is on vacation til 6/24. Just so you know. No shipping til she gets back, or very little.

1. All shafts come with stainless steel points and the tunable nocks. The Stainless steel points are breakoff points
2. If you want your arrows cut by them she is the only one who will do it. She's been there 22 years. She is very fussy and proud of her product. She explains everything very very well.
3. Their system is patent pending
4. They dominate many of the countries in the European market.
5. CI UF come fletched with 1.8 or the larger ones, which ever floats your boat. I like the low profile.
6. the others (green and orange) are sold as shafts with points and nocks and you can get their vanes or use whatever.
7. so the Green (best rated) are $110.32 and come with points and nocks. You get your own vanes. 

I think it is a heckuva deal frankly. 

Arrows that don't become Ultrafasts become Superclubs by the way, but I think we knew that.

I am totally sold on these people. I have no idea how they get away with selling an arrow that doesn't cost a zillion dollars I mentioned them to a local pro shop and suggested they become a dealer because these things would fly off the shelf.

They looked at me as if I'd grown another head.


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## dchan

Thanks for the info and thougts. I never thought to ask about cutting since I have owned an arrow cutting jig for over a decade now.. Does she charge anything for cutting?

I think the rest of that info is in my first post but well clarified by stardog if there was any confusion

Jennifer is a joy to work with. Always plesant on the phone and very responsive. The only time I had a hard time reaching her was during a big crunch when they didn't have enough help. It took some phone tag 2-3 times to hook up with her (only one day) and she resolved my issues right away.

DC


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## Warbow

StarDog said:


> Arrows that don't become Ultrafasts become Superclubs by the way, but I think we knew that.


I'd say we speculated that, with good reason. But this sounds, IIRC, the first time it has been confirmed. Did she actually say that Super Clubs are Ultra Fast culls? If so, it is a significant detail. Previously it seemed that CI was trying to suggest that the Super Clubs are separate from the Ultra Fast production line. If they were, then you'd expect a Gaussian distribution of quality if you bought a bunch of them, and you could test them yourself and sort them for the best. But, if SCs are culls, then it means that you'll never get a perfect set no matter how much you sort, because CI already did that and already took out all the good ones and made them Ultra Fasts. 

I don't mean this as a dis to Super Clubs - they have been excellent arrows for the club and many of our shooters. One of our club members just shot his outdoor BB Silver AAP pin with Super Clubs. I just like having the appropriate details available so people can have a better idea of what they are buying so they can make informed decisions. (I'm also reminded of the variances of the Super Clubs because I just pulled out one of mine from a set I'm not currently shooting and found it to be laughably bent - which amuses me highly since I ran them through my spine tester when I got them, because I was curious, but I apparently didn't think to check them for straightness  )


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## grantmac

I've got both SC and UF shafts right now. Both decent products and I truly believe off the same mandrel. SC may not be at all sorted though, or they may be culls. Some are laughably bent but creative cutting can fix that. Some of my best 70m shooting has been done with them and their filament wound construction easily creates the safest carbon arrow possible. Being able to get them as a bare shaft with components is great.

Here is where they get a little iffy on value for me:
Stiffer spines than 20/30 (810) get heavy fast.
They kind of take ACE components, but not all that well. Teflon tape is most definitely required.

Compared to a VAP V6 I think the extra money for the VAP is worth it unless you need something lighter than 1000 spine.

-Grant


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## dchan

FYI if you ever get "laughably bent" arrows from Carbon Impact, just give Jennifer a call and she will most likely replace them.. While there is no "published" minimum TIR standard, you should expect them to be reasonably straight. 

From when I have had a few mushroom at the ends, I would say more likely filament/woven rather than wound.


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## StarDog

Grantmac: indeed. She said arrows that don't become ultrafasts become superclubs.

Dchan: $4.00 to cut a dozen. That's a $1.00 more than Lancaster charges. She won't let anyone else in the shop do it but her. 

The steel breakoff points are 90 grams (or grains or whatever they are), versus the brass break offs for the superclubs which are 70. and the nock weighs a teensy bit more. 

So what I'm gonna do when I get mine is see if I am going to either cut them further and keep the 90 grain point, or else break off two sections to get the 70 grain weight like the superclub. I'l just have to see how it all goes together when I get them.


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## Warbow

dchan said:


> FYI if you ever get "laughably bent" arrows from Carbon Impact, just give Jennifer a call and she will most likely replace them.. While there is no "published" minimum TIR standard, you should expect them to be reasonably straight.


Yes, I remember that back when you bought a large batch of SCs you sent back a few exceptional arrows without any problems. Though I think the tolerance you had to exceed was 1/10th of an inch, which is pretty huge. The "laughably" bent arrow I recently noticed was .020" Total Indicated Range (TIR), so well within the .100".

However, as happens so often, I forgot something and had no idea I ever knew the thing I forgot. Well, anyway, a search of AT turns out I *did* test those SCs of mine, a year ago. 



> I tested dozen of mine and found that they got a max. Total Indicated Range of deflection of .032" (or +/- .016.)


In an email a while back Jenifer told me the tolerances for SCs were:



> The info on the Super Club is on page 11 of our catalog on line. The straightness is .006 +/- with a weight grain difference of 8 grain +/-. All arrows are recheck [sic] for weight, straightness and spine on every batch and we stand behind all of our products.


So I don't know if the SC tolerances has ever been clarified. Is it .100" (the tolerance I think dchan was told he could exchange for straighter arrows (dunno if that was +/- or TIR)) or is it +/- .006 (a TIR of .012"). My SCs are mostly within a TIR of .012", but some exceed it, so perhaps she was quoting the Ultrafast Yellow tolerance, which is quoted as +/- .006" in the OP? :dontknow:


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## grantmac

dchan said:


> From when I have had a few mushroom at the ends, I would say more likely filament/woven rather than wound.


That is what I meant to say, got my terms mixed.

-Grant


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## dchan

as far as straightness, if those Superclubs are visibly bent/curved or if you run your fingers down them while pinching and you can feel the variance in thickness, odds are carbon Impact will replace them. 

I just waited until I had enough to make it worth the shipping cost and sent a large batch back at one time. I think it turned out to be about 36 shafts (I had ordered almost 360 shafts) and I think there must have been a bad batch because before that order I was finding one out of every 2-3 doz that were really bent and since then I have only had to pull about 5 shafts in about 400 shafts so I have a small pile building up to send back. When I get to a doz, I'll probably send them back.


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## scolist

Since we're on the subject, does anyone know where I can find a readable CI spine chart? So far, every chart I have seen is too fuzzy to read.


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## c365

scolist said:


> Since we're on the subject, does anyone know where I can find a readable CI spine chart? So far, every chart I have seen is too fuzzy to read.


Yeah, I wrote them about it months ago. Nothings fixed.


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## Warbow

c365 said:


> Yeah, I wrote them about it months ago. Nothings fixed.


It's weird. Their PDF catalog seems to be a bunch of low resolution bit maps rather than the scalable vector art that makes PDFs so useful.


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## dchan

I have not found one but I can read mine.

What exactly are the specs you need?

I can work on cleaning up the chart and posting a new PDF.


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## scolist

I don't need anything yet, thank you. Just preparing myself in case the need arises.


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## dchan

Here you go.
Click on the image to download the PDF which will be very readable.

FYI this is a direct copy of data from their website. It has NOT been modified for real known configurations.


View attachment Carbon Impact Chart.pdf


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## c365

Thanks Dave.


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## StarDog

When I talked to Jennifer and told her what I wanted, she said she would have recommended the UF 710 (see below for what i am shooting). And that's what the spine chart says. I think that would be heinously stiff.

It is my understanding and correct me if I am wrong, than the more stuff you hang on your bow (stabilizer, side rods etc), the stiffer the arrow will perform. Which if true explains why my 15/25's are tunable (as long as the archer is tunable). I mean I got 4 in the gold on a 122cm at 40 meters so I suppose mine fly ok. (this was 4 out of 5. The other was in the inner blue ring)

Didn't limbwalker but together a Carbon Express spine chart that showed one spine weaker for recurve for that reason? 

Does it appear as if spine charts don't take into account Olympic style recurve? Just curious.


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## dchan

Thats The reason I put the comment about being a direct transfer of data.

I find that the chart is on the stiff side as well. I don't have enough data points to build a chart like John.

Stardog's reasoning is probably a good bet. 

Also consider that most beginners and new archers do nothing to "set up" a bow, so no centershot adjustment, probably no plunger, no stabilizers etc. if they are using a bow without a cutaway window, the centershot is way off. The further you are away from good alignment the more dynamically weak the arrow will react so that would need a stiffer arrow thus the chart with stiffer ratings.

DC


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## scolist

Thanks!


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## StarDog

dchan said:


> Also consider that most beginners and new archers do nothing to "set up" a bow, so no centershot adjustment, probably no plunger, no stabilizers etc. if they are using a bow without a cutaway window, the centershot is way off. The further you are away from good alignment the more dynamically weak the arrow will react so that would need a stiffer arrow thus the chart with stiffer ratings.
> 
> DC


That explains it. When I was shooting barebow and pulling probably 30# my coach back then recommended 3L-04. a .750 spine. When I started shooting Oly recurve I kept those same arrows with extremely mixed results. Now I know why.


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## grantmac

StarDog said:


> That explains it. When I was shooting barebow and pulling probably 30# my coach back then recommended 3L-04. a .750 spine. When I started shooting Oly recurve I kept those same arrows with extremely mixed results. Now I know why.


30# barebow puts you at 800-1000 spine unless you need an arrow longer than 29".

-Grant


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## StarDog

so we took an arrow this evening and measured it to the back of the riser (the part towards the target) and subtracting 3/8 of an inch for the point, it gave me 25 5/8" arrow if I am looking at using a riser mounted clicker ike a Beiter. That still puts me in experimenting with 10/20's at a 1200 spine. This wasn't just a one off deal: one of the coaches measured, then the head coach and another recurve shooter, so I think we had agreement where to mark one of my long arrows

This arrow thing gives me heartburn.


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## dchan

AT 25 5/8" you are probably going to be pretty close at 1200 (10/20) spine, almost going towards 1500 depending on how clean your release is.

If you are going to order just a few arrows from CI it may be worth ordering 4 of each. (the shipping will be almost the same for 4 or 8 arrows)


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## StarDog

Dchan I think I"ll do that, get some 10/20's. I have a fairly consistent release in that at 20-30 meters I can get the long 15/25's in the same place. and MOSTLY in the same universe at 50 meters (at least get a cluster on Archer Z upshot on a windless day). If they are problematic, then I know what to do. Thanks for your help as always.

Seriously I am the ONLY person I ever see in San Diego County or So Cal shooting Carbon Impact. I haven't the dimmest how they get away with selling an economy product but it may have to do with volume, gross versus net profits, production costs, whatever drives these things. Or just because they can, like some manufacturers can overcharge for the same reason It's branding. "Hey, I shoot Latest and greatest Exerminiators. They are so skinny they're invisible and just leave a puff of smoke in the target."


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## StarDog

Got 4 10/20's cut to 25 5/8" and will continue the experiment. They're faster than the longer 1525's and well -- at 60 meters they're in the gold and I gained back some sight. If I had to I could live with a dozen CI UF for the California State Games, the state 900 and a couple of local FITA shoots. If I had to. Plus they came with the most wonderful orange and yellow vane combo which I can see at 60 meters with MY eyesight. If left to my own devices, this is probably what I would do. If the 90 grain SS point the UF come with effects the arrow, I can always adjust.

Bear in mind that Sunday morning was fairly windless and they were LEFT. Yesterday evening was a light breeze an they were rightish but not too much.

Good thing my hearing is pretty good because that Beiter silver clicker? It's a whisper, not a snap. 

I am going to strip off the vanes on one of the 4 and see what happens today to see if I have real left right up down and sideways

My coach would like to see me use a 100 grain point so the arrow aren't as affected by wind and I recall in the dim distant past a coach telling me that the point weight would drag the arrow to the target (I call it reentry since it looks like I am aiming at the sun, moon and stars). 

And since we know that more point weight weakens an arrow that leaves us with the continuing spine question. The ultimate decision may or may not be Carbon Impact depending on lots of factors. One is spine -- the next spine stiffer is the 950. 

Then we have Carbon Express which comes in flavors. 

Victory Vap's weakest spine is 1000. 

So the spine question isn't answered because I am still gathering data.

More later but the bottom line is, if you are experimenting with spines and lengths, at $6.34 per arrow (if Lancaster cuts them) get 4 arrows and mess with the Superclubs because it's a cheap date. Strip the vanes off of one and have at it. 

Then you can sorta figure what you want to do even if the end result isn't Carbon Impact.





I will know more later today after I have done a bare shaft test in the backyard.

We're zeroing in on a set of arrows, spine, length, etc.


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## PaulME

Since this is the main thread for carbon impact arrows.
Are their pin nocks their own or do they match another type? I realize the pins should be identical (or close to identical) but all pin nocks do not look to be identical after that.

Asking because I broke one today - hey I'm still at the point where it's exciting to beak a nock - figure I will order a dozen spares tomorrow, but it would be good to know if another type that may be more readily available at a local shop is identical in length etc.
Paul


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## StarDog

That's a good question. Where does Carbon Impact get its pieces parts from? And is it less expensive to get a suitable part from a local shop rather than the possibly less expensive CI part but have that savings eaten up with shipping.


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## PaulME

Earlier in the thread the nock price is listed at $8.33/dz if memory serves. So price seems fine, but it would be nice to know so like I said the option is there to pick up equivalent parts at a local shop. Head coach at the club shoots x10 with Easton pin nocks and they are not the same.
Paul


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## StarDog

Paul, you have the price per dozen but their shipping is more than Lancaster's. or even paying local sales tax.

I suppose we need to know the OD (or inside diameter) of what flavor Ultrafast you're buying for. 

FYI I asked Jennifer re: 100 grain points. She will get me those if that is what I want and they will fit the 1200 shaft (or the 950) but they are slightly larger so the top itself is a tiny bit bigger than the arrow shaft.

90 grain break offs come with the 1200 and 950 

CI SC 1020 comes with a 60 grain point
1525 has a 70 grain point.


----------



## PaulME

Called Carbon Impact - answer is they use a standard boning pin nock, their price is confirmed at $8.33/dz which looks lower than Lancaster. Shipping was not expensive I think she said $3.50.
I did not actually order them as she volunteered the brand info, stated she would be more than happy to sell them to me but I may be able to get them local or through Lancaster etc. her price looks lower than lancasters, but I figure I will see if I can get them at a local shop.

Nice people to talk to at CI, certainly not trying to make money on nocks.
Paul


----------



## StarDog

good to know, Paul. I think they make their $$ on shafts. I don't know how everyone else works, but after CI sorts the arrows into their little piles (good, better, best), Carbon Impact sells the culls as Superclubs. I haven't a clue what Victory or Carbon Express does.

CI may have a lot of sales abroad and Superclub sales may keep their cost of the Ultrafast low. A dozen green UF (highest grade) is $110 but that includes points and nocks but not vanes.


----------



## abrennan

*Point details*

Regarding the UF stainless steel points, does anyone know:

1) the length of the exposed part once they are installed, and
2) the weight range (max-min)

In case it makes a difference, I'm considering the 820 and 710 spines.

Thanks,
-Adrian


----------



## dchan

abrennan said:


> Regarding the UF stainless steel points, does anyone know:
> 
> 1) the length of the exposed part once they are installed, and
> 2) the weight range (max-min)
> 
> In case it makes a difference, I'm considering the 820 and 710 spines.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Adrian


The outside diameter may vary with different shafts but the inside diameter is the same for all the UF shafts.

1500 and 1200 are 60-80gn break off points > .431" exposed
950 = 70-90gn > .440" exposed
820-710 = 80-100gn > .541" exposed
620 = 90-110gn
550-500 = 100-120gn
450-40 = 110-130gn

I don't currently have any 620's or heavier points at the moment to measure.

I also don't have the correct setup to measure the length of the inserted shaft at the moment. I'll measure those when I get a chance.

DC


----------



## StarDog

I am getting a dozen UF 1200 which come with the 60-80 grain breakoff but I am also getting the break offs that come with the 820s (they fit the 1200 shaft but barely). The points that come with the CI SC 1020's aren't heavy enough for distances at my supposed ideal shaft length so we wanted more options to play with,


----------



## dchan

Internal Diameter of carbon impact Super clubs and Ultra fasts (outside diameter of components) is .172"


----------



## dchan

Any of the standard Pin nocks will work on the Carbon Impact pins.. Clearly the ID of the shafts are different but I have used Easton, Fivic's, Soma, Beiter and Carbon express pin nocks as well as the ones that come with the Carbon Impacts. Size and shape of the nock part is different (depending on vendor) but they all seem to fit pretty well.


----------



## abrennan

*Spine*

I'm using Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator to determine the arrows I need. One input the calculator takes is 'AMO Static Spine'. Miller notes that this value is rarely given by manufacturers, but can be calculated from the deflection (which is often quoted as 'spine'). The problem is that deflection can be measured in a couple of different ways (AMO 2# @ 26" or ASTM 1.94# @ 28").

Spine for Ultrafasts is given as .710, .820 etc, but this is clearly a deflection measurement. Does anyone know whether this is determined using the AMO or ASTM method? It makes quite a difference. For example, 


a deflection of .820 measured using ASTM 1.94# @ 28" gives a AMO Static Spine of 38.4, 
a deflection of .820 measured using AMO 2# @ 26" gives a AMO Static Spine of 31.7

Thanks,
-Adrian


----------



## Warbow

abrennan said:


> I'm using Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator to determine the arrows I need. One input the calculator takes is 'AMO Static Spine'. Miller notes that this value is rarely given by manufacturers, but can be calculated from the deflection (which is often quoted as 'spine'). The problem is that deflection can be measured in a couple of different ways (AMO 2# @ 26" or ASTM 1.94# @ 28").
> 
> Spine for Ultrafasts is given as .710, .820 etc, but this is clearly a deflection measurement. Does anyone know whether this is determined using the AMO or ASTM method? It makes quite a difference. For example,
> 
> 
> a deflection of .820 measured using ASTM 1.94# @ 28" gives a AMO Static Spine of 38.4,
> a deflection of .820 measured using AMO 2# @ 26" gives a AMO Static Spine of 31.7
> 
> Thanks,
> -Adrian


Only wood arrows use the 26" span.


----------



## sprinke

Does anyone know which push-in nocks (other than the ones sold by Carbon Impact) would fit Super Club arrows?

Or ... I suppose I should ask my real question, which is ... My Super Club arrows fit my string nicely. If I want to get the same size nock in a different arrow, what size nock should I look for?


----------



## dchan

No other nock as far as I know fits in a super club. If you switch to pins, then you can use any pin nock.

Super club push in nocks are small. ( very small) by most nock mfg standards. Unless you go to swaged ends and find old stock, I thin you will be hard pressed to find a nock with similar groove size. I could be wrong but that has been my experience to the point where we are slowly redoing the servings on many of our bows to match the super club nocks better.

Your best option is to learn how to serve strings and then you can make any string you want fit any nocks you end up getting.


----------



## RickBac

Yes, the nocks have to be Carbon Impact. Lancaster stocks them.

We love the super clubs for our beginner kids.

I have a question on the Vanes. Whose vanes are they? I need to replace several for the kids.


----------



## StarDog

I'd call CI and ask. the vanes on the superclubs are probably the same as the ultrafast but Ive no idea where they get them. The pin nocks on the ultrafast are Bohning, so the vanes are probably a known manufacturer as well.


----------



## dchan

I have yet to find a matching vane. The price is low enough to order 100 vanes from CI. Even with shipping it's cheap.. They will mix and match colors to make up the 100 or more.

I think somewhere they said vanetech but 8 ordered the closest size and none were a match.


----------



## GBUSA

sprinke said:


> Or ... I suppose I should ask my real question, which is ... My Super Club arrows fit my string nicely. If I want to get the same size nock in a different arrow, what size nock should I look for?


Easton small G nocks fit my strings pretty close to the same as the nocks on the super clubs, with the CI SC's being ever so slightly tighter.
HTH


----------



## a99f01

I'm really impressed with the CI ultrafast.
Does anyone know of a Canadian retailer where I can buy some?


----------



## Jim C

speaking of these arrows. I had a top student who used the carbon impacts that were designed after the owner had sold BEMAN to Easton and started that brand. the old shop that sponsored me and my student (RELO sporting goods in Fairfield, Ohio) carried Carbon Impacts when they first came out and they featured that proprietary aluminum nock receiver. Now that this student is married, and has children, he no longer shoots and donated all his circa 2000 gear back to the club. included in that were a couple dozen of those arrows, most in perfect condition.

Does anyone know if those nocks are still available. I sent a request to CI and no one has bothered to get back to me


----------



## StarDog

a99f01 said:


> I'm really impressed with the CI ultrafast.
> Does anyone know of a Canadian retailer where I can buy some?


I would call Carbon Impact or just look on their website to see


----------



## dchan

Jim C said:


> Does anyone know if those nocks are still available. I sent a request to CI and no one has bothered to get back to me


If you can measure the ID of the receiver I could tell you if the new CI nocks would work, or I can send you a couple of the press in nocks.

As far as I know from their website however I don't see any "receivers" in their listings.

It is possible they changed designs but it's also possible they still use them on the other lines other than the super clubs. Carbon Impact has a whole line of hunting/compound arrows that are totally different in size.

The pins for the pin nocks on the UF seem to be the same size as all the current pin nocks on the market I have some with fivics, some with soma, some with easton and some with Carbon Impacts which I know understand are actually Bohning pin nocks.


----------



## sprinke

Has anyone re-fletched the Carbon Impacts with other vanes, like Blazers?


----------



## dchan

Done spin wings, knurled, gateway feathers, 3d dura vanes, vanetec. No Blazers yet.

Why do you ask. They take vanes and feathers just like any other shaft. Just clean with alcohol and you should be good to go.


----------



## Jim C

dchan said:


> If you can measure the ID of the receiver I could tell you if the new CI nocks would work, or I can send you a couple of the press in nocks.
> 
> As far as I know from their website however I don't see any "receivers" in their listings.
> 
> It is possible they changed designs but it's also possible they still use them on the other lines other than the super clubs. Carbon Impact has a whole line of hunting/compound arrows that are totally different in size.
> 
> The pins for the pin nocks on the UF seem to be the same size as all the current pin nocks on the market I have some with fivics, some with soma, some with easton and some with Carbon Impacts which I know understand are actually Bohning pin nocks.


I will try to take a picture of them in the next day or two and post it here Professor


----------



## Jim C

this is the nock I am talking about and the nock receiver. Its rather tough to get the nock off once its been placed onto the nock receiver


----------



## StarDog

Just ordered more UF's from Jennifer. Vanes are made by some outfit in Washington *according to CI's shape specification*. They are changing providers to another one. so it could be a name brand but it is CI's SHAPE. Very important to remember -- they are not "off the shelf" vanes" no matter who make them. Assuming you want their rigid vanes. 

Nocks are Bohning F nocks. Pins are made by Carbon Impact.

In case anybody was curious.

She knows all her customers by name. This is nice.

I just don't get why more people don't shoot these based on the price. Mine shoot just as well as other people's ACC's or Carbon Express Medallions and the occasional x10 when I am really on my game. And it takes a lot to blow one up. Like slam it into a rock maybe. 

True the spine selection even in the UF isn't that broad but it's not fatal to tune.


----------



## stryder1587

Maybe it's just me, but I find the superclubs with the stock dull red and white vanes difficult to see on the target from even the 20m line when it gets a bit dark. I would get these again for the value but I definitely want some bright neon green vanes or something so I can clearly see where they landed.


----------



## dchan

I don't know if they will make up a set for you in different colors but it's worth asking. Especially if you are ordering a set of UFs.

Otherwise order some vanes if you like they way they fly. They are less expensive than spins and duravanes are very durable and they do come in a couple of bright colors. bright yellow and bright green (maybe not quite neon)

DC


----------



## nakedape

stryder1587 said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I find the superclubs with the stock dull red and white vanes difficult to see on the target from even the 20m line when it gets a bit dark. I would get these again for the value but I definitely want some bright neon green vanes or something so I can clearly see where they landed.


just got them from Lancaster,
that is one disappointing thing, they didn't give me any color choice.
I end up with 1&7/8" 1 pink and 2 blue vanes, with dark red nocks,
I can't even see them at 20 yards.

thinking about refletching with 3" helical feathers


----------



## StarDog

nakedape said:


> just got them from Lancaster,
> that is one disappointing thing, they didn't give me any color choice.
> I end up with 1&7/8" 1 pink and 2 blue vanes, with dark red nocks,
> I can't even see them at 20 yards.
> 
> thinking about refletching with 3" helical feathers


I use binoculars indoors for that very reason. It doesn't matter that color anything I use. I just like to be sure.

That said:

What you see is what you get with Superclubs. they are the culls of the CI sorting process. Once they get a batch, they sort them into four categories

The first three are the Ultrafast.

The last are the ones that don't make the Ultrafast cut. Those become superclubs. So CI sells all its inventory and they have a big overseas market. That's why their upper end shafts aren't as costly as other folks'.

They come with brass points, vanes etc. As Dchan has said, if you starting upgrading with points, nocks and vanes, you may as well spend the money on Ultrafast. That way you can get

1. The point weight you want. And they're steal
2. The nock color you want - Bohning pin nocks
3. The additional cost to you is buying your own fletches.

If all you're doing is refletching with feathers that's a pretty inexpensive fix. However, these are superlight shafts (not sure which ones you got -- I'd look up the weight per inch) with brass points and you'd want to know the weight of the point. If the feathers are too heavy, they might alter your FOC in not a good way.

I get Superclubs to experiment with what Ultrafast I would be getting down the road. I get about 4 and rip the vanes off off one to get a bare shaft.

See my signature below. Nobody else I know is shooting CI UF. Which baffles me cuz I just don't get why spend the extra money when these do what the spendier arrows do.

I'm pulling 32# through the clicker with a 1200 spine arrow. When I'm on they go right to the x every time at 20 yards. "On" meaning, I actually do what my coach tells me to do. I finally reached one goal yesterday:

a 30 arrow round with NO BLUE!!!! Red or better.


----------



## PaulME

Anyone know if points are specific to ultrafast? Ask because I lost one point about a week ago, suspect it was the one that I nailed another arrow with put a big notch in the nock pin. My guess is that the impact broke the epoxy bond and it came out pulling it from the target 1 or 2 ends later.
A dozen points go for about $16 which is no big deal but I'm likely to increase limb weight this spring so it may be best to just live with 11 arrows for the time being.
Thanks 
Paul


----------



## StarDog

PaulME said:


> Anyone know if points are specific to ultrafast? Ask because I lost one point about a week ago, suspect it was the one that I nailed another arrow with put a big notch in the nock pin. My guess is that the impact broke the epoxy bond and it came out pulling it from the target 1 or 2 ends later.
> A dozen points go for about $16 which is no big deal but I'm likely to increase limb weight this spring so it may be best to just live with 11 arrows for the time being.
> Thanks
> Paul


That's a good question Points are about a buck a piece from Carbon Impact, maybe a little less, like $11.50 plus shipping. I am in the same boat -- one point shy of 11 arrow but I'm not sure If I am increasing weight or not and going to a stiffer spine.


----------



## nakedape

StarDog said:


> If all you're doing is refletching with feathers that's a pretty inexpensive fix. However, these are superlight shafts (not sure which ones you got -- I'd look up the weight per inch) with brass points and you'd want to know the weight of the point. If the feathers are too heavy, they might alter your FOC in not a good way.


thanks, I will keep that in mind.




> See my signature below. Nobody else I know is shooting CI UF. Which baffles me cuz I just don't get why spend the extra money when these do what the spendier arrows do.


I am not surprised nobody buys them,

There is no online ordering on their site. The site has small fonts and not well designed. 
and it's not offered on Lancaster...


----------



## nakedape

I should have asked before buying,
but anyways I will ask now.

I bought the Super Club 15/25 (.950) 
weighs 4.9 grains per inch
30" shaft. (length of arrow = 30.25")
70 grain tips.

I am shooting them full length with 70 grain tips.

my DL is 28" with 22 lb limb, did not measure OTF.
(my bow is in my sig, using stock plunger and rest)

my bareshafts grouped right. (maybe by 4")

First question, did I get the right spine?

Seconde question, the fletched arrows seem to fishtail some, is that normal since the spine is weak?


----------



## dchan

nakedape said:


> ....Super Club 15/25 (.950)
> 
> I am shooting them full length with 70 grain tips.
> 
> my DL is 28" with 22 lb limb, did not measure OTF.
> (my bow is in my sig, using stock plunger and rest)
> 
> my bareshafts grouped right. (maybe by 4")


My experience says full length you should be close to slightly stiff.. I'm shooting 24lb OTF and 29.5" DL . 28.75" shafts 10/20's show just about right. 15/25's 29" bareshaft tests show about 8-12" left (stiff). What is your centershot set at? 

Have you done a clerance check? How is the plunger set?

DC


----------



## StarDog

nakedape:

You have to CALL Carbon Impact to order and talk to Jennifer. Because if you want different weight points than the ones that come with whatever spine, she will swap them out. And if you want THEIR fletches she'll ask what color, also what color nocks.

They sell a lot overseas by the way, so it isn't like this company is suffering.

I use them because they work and I can afford them. I am not a "slave" fashion as it were.

950 superclubs were hella stiff for me even at 29-30 pounds. I didn't dare cut them as it would have made matters worse.

These arrows are STIFF (see what dchan has to say above) . Arrow charts usually are

Which is why I suppose the 1200 Ultrafast works out. We started full length and shot bareshaft, cut, shot,cut, shot.

They were still a teensy bit stiff til I went up to 32 pounds.


----------



## nakedape

dchan said:


> My experience says full length you should be close to slightly stiff.. I'm shooting 24lb OTF and 29.5" DL . 28.75" shafts 10/20's show just about right. 15/25's 29" bareshaft tests show about 8-12" left (stiff). What is your centershot set at?
> 
> Have you done a clerance check? How is the plunger set?
> 
> DC


Thanks for the response.

I was hoping they would be slightly stiff since I am planning to move up to my 26# limbs.

I just checked, I realized my centershot is set with no offset, inline with my stab.
plunger is using the soft spring.

I didn't do a clearance check. (not sure the right way to do it, I believe I read to use baby powder on the shelf)

I did recently raised my nock set to 0.75" (based on what I read for shooting 3 under) that might have something to do with it.

I gonna go shoot tomorrow night at Palomo, I guess I will adjust my centershot to a shaft width positive offset. and lower my nockset to 3/8" and see what happens.



StarDog said:


> 950 superclubs were hella stiff for me even at 29-30 pounds. I didn't dare cut them as it would have made matters worse.


thx for the input. I should have got some 10/20 (1200) arrows also....


----------



## nakedape

20 yd, sry pic sideways


----------



## sprinke

Has anyone ever found any nock that could be used with Super Clubs so you can use a thicker string? Or can you drill out the Super Club nock slightly?


----------



## dchan

best option I found is pins and pin nocks but then you might as well pay the slightly higher price for Ultrafasts..

or build your own strings.


----------



## kenfx0

dchan said:


> best option I found is pins and pin nocks but then you might as well pay the slightly higher price for Ultrafasts..
> 
> 
> If you already own the superclubs pins and pin nocks may make more sense than replacing perfectly good arrows.
> 
> or build your own strings.


Or order a custom string.


----------



## nakedape

can someone confirm this,
LAS is vague on the info,

CI SuperClub brass breakoff points
10/20 = 60 grain 
15/25 = 70 grain 
20/30 = 80 grain 
30/40 = 90 grain
40/50 = 100 grain

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/carbon-impact-glue-in-target-points.html


----------



## dchan

According to the dealer listing with component data

Brass points for Carbon Impact
PN 3319 5/15 shafts = 60 gns
PN 3320 10/20 shafts = 60 gns
PN 3321 15/25 shafts = 70 gns
PN 3322 20/30 shafts = 80 gns
PN 3323 30/40 shafts = 90 gns
PN 3324 40/50 shafts = 95 gns

Stainless points for Ultrafast 

PN 3300S 1500-1200 shafts = 60-80 gns
PN 3301S 950 shafts = 70-90 gns
PN 3302S 820-710 shafts = 80-100 gns
PN 3304S 620 shafts = 90-110 gns
PN 3305S 550-500 shafts = 100-120 gns
PN 3307S 450-400 shafts = 110-130 gns

Since I'm at it 

Aluminum pins for ultrafasts
PN 3311 1500-950 shafts (these would also fit SC 5/15-15/25)
PN 3313 820-620 shafts (these would also fit SC 20/30-30/40)
PN 3317 550-400 shafts (these would also fit SC 40/50)

Reminder inside diameter (outside diameter of components) of all the carbon shafts are .172" so if you are using their insert components, there are no aftermarket substitutes. 
If you are using their pins, they source their pin nocks from Bohning. Almost any standard pin nock will work. Don't forget however that not pin nocks or over nocks have the same distance from the throat of the nock to the end of the shaft so switching mfg's may change your overall arrow length and require adjusting clickers, tune, etc..


----------



## nakedape

thank you!

just got some 1200 UltraFast arrows
(26 lb limbs, 28" DL)


----------



## limbwalker

great resource there D. Thanks for posting.


----------



## hansa

What's the quality difference between say Carbon Impact Ultra Fast Green and Easton Carbon One's or ACG/ACC?

Thanks


----------



## dchan

hansa said:


> What's the quality difference between say Carbon Impact Ultra Fast Green and Easton Carbon One's or ACG/ACC?
> 
> Thanks


Different technologies so it's hard to make a direct comparison. ACx are carbon wrapped around an AL shaft. Carbon Ones I believe are uni directional fibers. Carbon Impacts are woven fibers. 

I'll leave the quality question to those that have tried carbon ones. All my experience with those is second hand. Most people I talked to did not like the consistency. Carbon Impact while I've had lots of variance between shafts in the SC line, all the ultra fasts have been very consistent between shafts considering the price point.


----------



## hansa

dchan said:


> Different technologies so it's hard to make a direct comparison. ACx are carbon wrapped around an AL shaft. Carbon Ones I believe are uni directional fibers. Carbon Impacts are woven fibers.
> 
> I'll leave the quality question to those that have tried carbon ones. All my experience with those is second hand. Most people I talked to did not like the consistency. Carbon Impact while I've had lots of variance between shafts in the SC line, all the ultra fasts have been very consistent between shafts considering the price point.


The reason why I ask, is that I currently use Ultra Fast Greens, and am pretty happy with them (great durability),but am currently looking to upgrade my arrows, so im trying to gauge if there will be any benefit in the other shafts.

woops, maybe I should start a new thread instead of hijacking this one


----------



## beefstew27

limbwalker said:


> Excellent info there. Any suggestions on the best place to order UltraFast arrows/shafts?
> 
> I first saw these at the 2005 ATA show in Indy, where I met Pierre (the inventor of the all-carbon arrow, and former pres. of Beman arrows). He seemed like a good guy, and his product really meets a need for so many beginning and intermediate archers on a budget.
> 
> SuperClubs and UltraFasts are incredibly light for their respective spine, which also helps us get kids out to their distances with the least possible draw weight. This helps us avoid injury and gradually ease them into the sport which is great for everyone. It's not often a single product makes such a difference in a sport, but IMO, the SuperClubs do just that. I've started nearly every one of my JOAD and even AA archers on them in the past 4 years, and even had one student recently make the World Field Team in Junior Barebow, shooting SuperClubs.


Hi Tech Archery in Fullerton, CA sells them from their website - www.htarchery.com


----------



## Jim C

dchan said:


> Just getting back to this.
> 
> FYI for those of you building your own strings, For beginners, using b55 or b50 dacron string.
> 
> I have found that 10 strands and .014" center serving is perfect for the CI, Super club's insert nocks. 12 strand is a little tight but works.
> 
> I have to build a couple of 8125 strings so will report back on those after I test a few fits.


14 strands-.17 HALO


----------



## dchan

Jim C said:


> 14 strands-.17 HALO


Thanks Jim,

Presume you are talking 8125?


----------



## Jim C

dchan said:


> Thanks Jim,
> 
> Presume you are talking 8125?


affirmative--if you are running D97, O2 or D10 (Force 10) then you want to maybe go 12 strands since its thicker.


----------



## jskwon22

Hi, dchan

I have a set of 620 Yellow Ultrafast recommended and cut by the local club I visit. My setup is a Forged Plus 25" riser, Long 32# SF Elite limbs, draw length of roughly 31.5" (measured by the local club at time of purchase), and Doinker Avancee stab setup with the SF Archery 8125 14 and 16 thread bowstring (using both to see what feels best as I learn) all (except the arrows) purchased from from LAS. 

I've been shooting 1-2 times a week with these arrows since mid-December as I've been working on form. I'm still a beginner, but slowly improving and feeling more consistent with my shot. 

What I noticed is that even though I can shoot from 10 yard consistently (4-5" groupings at worst) when I shoot a bare shaft the arrows enter the target with nock left equally consistently. Still within the grouping but the nock left at anywhere from 25-35 degrees from straight. I mentioned to the guy who sold me and cut the arrows about that and he said at 10 yds bare shaft wouldn't be accurate and it could also likely my form. So I continued to shoot with them (now at 20 yds) and still have the same result when shooting bare shaft (nock left - but still close to the grouping).

I haven't paper tuned the bow and it's very possible the bow tuning isn't quite there yet, but isn't the consistent nock left result on bare shaft an indication of a weak shaft? Not sure how I would convince the pro shop guys otherwise at this point. My overall shot is improving and I feel okay, so I'm not worrying too much about it. Planning to simply switch out the arrows when I move up to the next poundage limbs later this year, but at the same time, I don't want it to inhibit my learning process (if it matters at all).

I like the Carbon Impact arrows as my beginner arrows, but just want to make sure I've got the correct setup. When looking at the sizing chart, I see it falling perhaps in the 550 or 500 zone for my supposed draw length and bow weight. I'm 5'10 and of average build for an asian guy, I'd say.

I am not using a clicker yet, but found the arrows are perhaps 3/4" too long even when I play around with the clicker (I have to reach way back to get past the clicker or use the AAE sight bar mounted clicker set up about an inch further out). So I guess I could cut an inch off the arrow length if that might help at all with stiffness (I'm thinking not a whole lot).

Any advice you may have with the arrows would be appreciated!


----------



## dchan

Tail left or right while staying in the group generally is an indication of setup problems. 10 meters and 20 meters, while can yield some results, you really need a little more distance for accurate results. But if your groups are still to large to make 30m reasonable, then you do what you can at 20m. That being said, if you are not shooting good groups at 20m, then tuning will not yield a great jump in scores or groups. As long as you are in the ball park just keep shooting.

Re spine If increasing and decreasing DW move the bareshaft right and left then you will have your answer. Nock left or right shows timing and bad arrow flight. Depending on what the flight is like will determine which direction. Where the arrow lands tells us weak or stiff. But if your basic setup is off (centershot) or clearance problems, then all bets are off.

For tail left/right check your centershot position and do a clearance check. I wouldn't read too much into the tail left right at this point
if they are grouping well.



DC


----------



## jskwon22

Thanks, dchan! I will take a look at center shot and clearance and keep practicing on my form for now. Just wanted to be sure the spine was accurately measured for starters. Some more things to consider. Thanks!


----------



## Dewboy

tagged


----------



## ceratops

Very informative thread. I have a question about nocks for Super Club arrows...

I recently bought a half dozen SC arrows for my son, who is still relatively new in archery, but now has his own bow, rather than just borrowing beginner equipment at the range. Come to find out, the SC nock groove is just too tight to fit on the string I happened to buy for his bow (I had no idea that 'small groove' nocks vary as much as they apparently do).

I removed the nocks from the SC arrows, with an eye to putting in the slightly wider nocks we use on most of our other arrows (several family members involved in archery, so multiple bows and arrows have accumulated). Lo and behold, the other nocks are way too loose in the shafts. No surprise to anyone knowledgeable about these arrows, but it was a surprise to me (!) I got out calipers, and measured SC nock shaft at .1715" and concluded shaft ID must be .172" - just as documented above in this thread. No wonder nocks made for .166"/.167" shafts don't fit.

Is wrapping nock shafts with teflon tape a viable approach? I know I could just try it easily enough, but it's worth asking if anyone has had definite success (or definite lack of success) with this approach.

I know I could buy a new skinnier bowstring, or re-serve his current string (requires purchase of tools and materials), or maybe get into building our own strings (more tools and materials)... But, aside from time/expense, this would still leave him using equipment inconsistent with what everyone else in this household, or at the local range, is using. I'd like to avoid that, if possible.


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## dchan

Call carbon impact and order a set of carbon impact ultrafast pins. These use standard beiter, easton or fivics pin nocks and can be glued onto the superclub shafts with hot melt glue or epoxy if you never plan to remove the pins.

Or switch to ultrafast arrows. Only slightly more than superclubs.


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## dchan

Problem with teflon tape, or any other way of trying to jam more stuff in a small carbon shaft, is you can put strain on the shaft that can crack or split the shaft. Most of the time the nock will not be centered either.


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## ceratops

That's what I was afraid of... My 'economical' purchase of these arrows is starting to look less economical, as this incompatibility reveals itself.

Another question, if I may - I came across a Carbon Impact instructional blurb - says to use flexible 24-hour epoxy to glue in points, and to definitely NOT use hot melt glue. Since I was just about to put the points in - with hot melt glue - I'm thinking ***? What's special about these points, or these shafts, that hot melt won't work right? I'd rather not use epoxy, in case we need to trim length on these arrows in the future...


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## evilbee

A lot of manufacturers say that so they don't get complaints when people ruin their shafts from overheating. Hot melt is fine to use, just don't use too much heat.


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## kenfx0

evilbee said:


> A lot of manufacturers say that so they don't get complaints when people ruin their shafts from overheating. Hot melt is fine to use, just don't use too much heat.


There is a low temp hot melt for arrows available at Lancaster. I have been using it with super clubs. Also what about getting a new string?

Kenf


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## kenfx0

kenfx0 said:


> There is a low temp hot melt for arrows available at Lancaster. I have been using it with super clubs. Also what about getting a new string?
> 
> Kenf



Here is a link to the hot melt glue. http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bohning-ferr-l-tite-cool-flex-hot-melt.html


And the 14 strand version of this string works with super club nocks for me. http://www.lancasterarchery.com/flex-archery-stringflex-pro-recurve-string.html

kenf


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## ceratops

I have the blue low temp hot melt on hand. If there's nothing unusual about these arrows w.r.to use of hot melt, I'll just proceed.

I agree, new string is probably cheapest way out. I may (carefully) try the teflon tape approach first, to see if it looks promising at all.


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## dchan

I have been using with great success blue hotmelt. Well over 100 sets of 1 dozen arrows in the past 5 years.

The one drawback is that when you hit a hard object, (rock, metal, etc) the point breaks loose and mushooms the end of the shaft.

The few I’ve seen that were epoxied in did not have the same symptom. Just a flattened point and often the nock broken.

But then your only choice to make the arrow shootable is to grind the point sharp again, and you have to figure out a way to pull the broken nock out without some how getting the point out. Or destroying the shaft by over heating the point to break the epoxy bond.

Since I have so many carbon impact superclubs in our club fleet, if one of the shafts gets mushroomed, we just trim them back and change the cresting and use it with a shorter arrow set until they reach the shortest set.


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## dchan

I think the pins for the arrows were about 12.00 per doz and these would allow you to use the shafts with your choice of pins. Something that can be done for all the different shafts that use the standard pins.

Or go with ultra fasts for your next “economical” arrow purchase. Not that much more expensive and they come with Stainless steel points (harder) and pins and pin nocks. They are only about a 1.50 more per arrow.


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## a99f01

Any information on the 2019 price lists for the Ultrafast models.


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## dchan

I need to call them but my experience is if they didn’t send me a new price list, the prices have not changed.


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