# speed pro max arrows



## Team Hoyt PA (Oct 25, 2003)

*fastpassthrough*

you have pm....BTW, what is the field staff for?


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## Shirt (Aug 31, 2002)

I think the advert needs a little work...

Much like lots of other people, you've got a typo.

It's SPINE, not SPLINE. If you don't get it right, it's kinda meaningless...

JMHO, 0.02, etc...


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## fastpassthrough (Jan 25, 2003)

Shirt said:


> *I think the advert needs a little work...
> 
> Much like lots of other people, you've got a typo.
> 
> ...


hey thanks for the spell check slipped right bye us


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## GatorSlayer (Oct 24, 2003)

I have questions about these shafts. I notice in your test that your shooting the test bow at less than 5 grains per pound. PSE will void my warranty for doing that, but your showing in your test that it is OK. So, is it OK to shoot less than 5 grains per pound with your arrows? Is spine stiffness more important than mass weight?

Also what are the straightness and weight tolerances of these shafts. Are they geared towards hunting or are than consistant enough to shoot in competition?


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## fastpassthrough (Jan 25, 2003)

*speed pro arrows*

Through testing we have found that the stiffness of the shafts has alot more to do with the transfer of energy from the bow to the arrow even though the arrows are lighter because of the stiffer spine they transfer more of the stored energy to the arrow from the bow and with this there is less vibration then some of the heavier arrows with less spine and we did a penetration test @ 40 yards we shot from 225 grain arrow to 600 and there was not anymore then about 5/8" difference between them i took pictures to post but they are not very good at showing the results they look on the pictures alot less and we want facts not to mislead that is what Archery pro llc is based on facts 


Richard


NEWBERRY BOWS
END OF STORY!


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

Yes spine stiffness is the most inportant thing concerning energy transfer from the bow to the arrow.
that is why I have always stated that there is NO such thing as an overspined arrow!
a light stiff shaft is more effecient in accuracy, speed

I have been using the Speed Pro selects for a while and really like the flight charicteristics of the arrows.
not to mention the speed and accuracy increase.

Gatorslayer
The Newberrys have an Un-Conditional warranty on their bows
for life to the original owner so if you want to shoot the 5.5 GPI arrows go for it!

BTW Richard is the GURU when it comes to this stuff so if he says its so you can take it to the bank


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

Archeryaddict 


what booths will you be at? I want to stop by & check out the Newberry bows & the Speed Pro Arrows


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## fastpassthrough (Jan 25, 2003)

ARCHERY PRO LLC WILL BE AT BOOTH 1275 AND THE COFFE WILL BE ON RICHARD




NEWBERRY BOWS
END OF STORY!


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

LOL Becky

He GOTTA Get that blood pumping coffee?


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

orions Bow

I hope to be in the demo booth but it is not real clear whether I will be going or not. hopefully I will be able to go.
Mike


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## GatorSlayer (Oct 24, 2003)

Thanks to all who replied.


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## Dugga Boy (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: speed pro arrows*



fastpassthrough said:


> *Through testing we have found that the stiffness of the shafts has alot more to do with the transfer of energy from the bow to the arrow even though the arrows are lighter because of the stiffer spine they transfer more of the stored energy to the arrow from the bow. *


I won't moaning but that's only partially correct.
With an identical static spine of a lighter and a heavier arrow, the lighter arrow will show a higher stiffness (less deflection) on the dynamic spine during accerleration than the heavy one. That perception is not new but only half the battle. 
A lighter projectile is much easier to irritate. Irritation can be caused by flawed shot execution, side wind, movement of the game during penetration (changing impulse vector of the projectile) and maybe some more.
Don't get me wrong, I like very stiff arrows (and Newberry bows ) but why not make a stiff AND heavy shaft.
So much game has been lost because of too light equipment.
I'm sure your shafts would be awesome for 3D or target.

Btw, can you tell me the exact outside diameter of these shafts.
I like to tinker with doubleshafted arrows and I'm always searching for suitable insert shafts.

Thanks and good luck with your product
Markus


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

heavy and stiff defeats the purpose of what we want to acomplish here.
you say Richard is only half right but you arent seeing the whole picture yourself
I can see your point if we were shooting the arrow out of a bow that will at best produce260 FPS the wind will effect a slower arrow 
more forward momentum decreases the effect of wind.
heavy slow will dig up the ground a lot faster than fast and light.
there has been a lot of testing on these light arrow and the results have been positive.

the shaft OD is 9/32"


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

just as much game has been lost due to slow equipment as well
mostly due to hunter error or bad shot placement 
I have used both light and heavy and I am sticking with light and fast.


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## Dugga Boy (Apr 21, 2003)

Archeryaddict said:


> *more forward momentum decreases the effect of wind.
> *


That's right, sir but a projectiles momentum depends much more on its weight than on its speed.



Archeryaddict said:


> *heavy slow will dig up the ground a lot faster than fast and light.
> *


Sorry, I was talking about heavy AND fast.



Archeryaddict said:


> *the shaft OD is 9/32"
> *


Thanks a lot. Appreciated.



Archeryaddict said:


> *just as much game has been lost due to slow equipment as well
> mostly due to hunter error or bad shot placement
> *


So, most times the hunter was the factor not the arrow (lack of shooting abilities, impatience,etc.).



Archeryaddict said:


> *I am sticking with light and fast.
> *


Okay, make my favourite hunting game a believer and I will be delighted to follow your concept.
Hmm, he looks kinda sceptic, doesn't he.


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

those 5x5 bull elks were probably skeptical too until they had a complete passthru at 60 yards and piled up less than 25 yards later. about the only difference is how much farther the heavier arrow will dig into the ground after it passes thru the animal.




> That's right, sir but a projectiles momentum depends much more on its weight than on its speed.


it depends more on the amount of energy that is driving it opposed to the weight. 


example compare a 30-06 compaired to a 45-70 which has a flatter trajectory at greater distance and which one lsows down faster.


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

> Sorry, I was talking about heavy AND fast.


sorry but heavy and fast wont fit in the same sentance together.


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## Dugga Boy (Apr 21, 2003)

If shooting from 60 yards on animals is the new fashion in bowhunting, I will not be a part of it.
What's up guys? No stalking skills, no patience????
Not bashing, just wondering. 



> it depends more on the amount of energy that is driving it opposed to the weight.


That's partially correct according to the trajectory (momentum is still an important factor here) but not to penetration ability.

The comparison of the two rifle bullets is something strange either.

My goal is to kill the animal in any case, not at any distance.



> sorry but heavy and fast wont fit in the same sentance together.


Okay, adequately fast. Hair-splitter


I'm sorry (and a bit angry) that my English is much too awkward to explain exactly what I want to tell.


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

If shooting from 60 yards on animals is the new fashion in bowhunting, I will not be a part of it.
What's up guys? No stalking skills, no patience????
Not bashing, just wondering. 

evidentley you have never hunted elk
if you can get a 40 to 60 yard shot on an elk you had better take it!



> That's partially correct



I have been partially correct 3 times now, how many before I am totally correct.

yes weight = Kenetic energy but how much KE is needed to punch a hole thru an animal?

it takes less than 11 ounces of pressure to pierce flesh so would you agree that 65Foot lbs of KE is more than adequate to pass thru an animal the size of an elk or an ox and have enough left to dig into the ground not to mention that the speed of the arrow will carry it straiter than that of a heavier arrow
we are talking 340 to 350+ FPS with a hunting arrow that is 70 lbs and 29" to 30" Draw
we have done the comparison and we have presented you with facts not opinion.


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## Dugga Boy (Apr 21, 2003)

> I have been partially correct 3 times now, how many before I am totally correct.


Sorry, it was just intended to treat you kindly and respectfully.
Should I say, you missed the point three times??

You're right, I never hunted elk but I was closer to them than 40 yards. Just without a bow and witout a tag. That was in BC, Canada. Maybe the elks are some kind of tamer up there, however.

I never doubt your words about the successful kills but if it comes to facts, I like to trust the few peoples who shot hundreds of big game (and I mean big) and scrutinized the Hows and Whys on a scientific basis without the intention of selling products.

If you still believe in KE beeing the final answer in arrow lethality, do yourself a favour and keep on shooting thin-skinned animals with moderate bone structure.


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

> and scrutinized the Hows and Whys on a scientific basis without the intention of selling products.


OK

I think this section is called Manufacturer anouncements and press releases.

Newberry announced that they are recomending using the speed pro Max arrows with their bows.

Fair enough?


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## Dugga Boy (Apr 21, 2003)

Granted, buddy. 
No offense.

I'm sure that arrows will draw attention of many archers and bowhunters.

Best luck for the business.

Markus


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

> No offense.


None taken 
Thanks
Mike


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## x-cutter (May 20, 2003)

I wonder if High Country will blow their own bow up again with that arrow at the trade show again? 

Stiff or not you still need more weight in the arrow to take up the energy transfer from the bow or it is hard on your equipment and a lot noisier for hunting. Believe none of what you hear and half what you read and should be ok. That applies to some companies more than others!


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

Xcutter
HCA did NOT blow up the bow shooting light arrows. The bow was in a dry fire machine when the bottom limb broke after 1700 repedetive dry fires.

Please get your facts strait before trying to sling mud


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## x-cutter (May 20, 2003)

Just a BIG rumor I heard from my friends over at Bowtech when they were challenged to a speed contest. And by the way the bowtech was faster if tha EVEN MATTERS.


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

yes but untruthful rumor

I have no doubt the Bowtech shoots faster than the HCA and it should using such a hard cam but ask bowtech if they will warrant their bows to shoot a sub 5 grain per pound arrow.
I can tell you the answer is a big NO!
the HCA perfex Cam is much milder cam and dont have a valley that when you roll into it that the arrow jumps off the rest.


Newberry and HCA is the only manufacturers in the Industry that does have such a warranty!

I think that says a lot about a bow company that believes that much in the equipment they manufacture to stand behind it with a warranty this good.


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## x-cutter (May 20, 2003)

Exactly! They are marketing this sub 5 grain per pound arrow to the public where very few High Country bows are currently being shot, and they dont warrantee their bows this light because of the liability to the manufacturer and the inherent danger to shooter and equipment.


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## Archeryaddict (Jan 12, 2003)

X Cutter 
If it was dangerous we certanly WOULD NOT recomend people shooting less than 5 grains per pound arrows. Do you or anyone else for that matter think that we would put people in harms way by not testing this equipment first? Spencer and the R & D team has been doing studies on this for over 4 years now.

I suppose when Bowtech says it is safe then you will believe it?
 

I am not taking anything away from Bowtech in fact I own one and love how good it shoots.
but HCA was making bows when Bowtech wasnt even a thought.

instead of debating about archery equipment you probably have never even picked up why dont you at least shoot the bows before forming your opinion?


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## KennyB (Jun 8, 2003)

Archery addict you and Duggaboy need to hook up and develope a 2 blade 90gr for those fast arrows for use on thin skinned game for us deer and elk hunters


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## fastpassthrough (Jan 25, 2003)

*broadhead*

Funny that you should bring up the broad head we just got one in today that was designed for the light arrows and a new nock broad head is approxx. 60 grains and nock is 3 and spencer shot it today with his hunting set up at 370 fps 235 grain arrow 31 draw we did some filming today of some penetration test at 40 yards useing the new hca tss and a mathews and the arrows weighed from 235 - 600 grains and in every case the lighter arrow out penetrated the heavier arrow we wuold shoot the hca and it would shoot 368 then the mathews and it would be 335 and about 1/2" less penetration we shot every arrow with both bows and gues what the lighter arrows with higher speed penetrated further and you should of seen the drop off on the 600 grain arrow at 40 yards we had to sight in to keep it out of the dirt! happy shooting 

oh i almost forgot we will have the decibel tests done soon you will be surprised how the 235 grain arrow through the hca carbon tss bow with no silencers measures up against the heavy arrow in the mathews you will be surprised


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## Dugga Boy (Apr 21, 2003)

Richard, 
I' m quite interested in your testings.
Do you have any data sheet and protocols of your testings, you don't mind to share with us?

I'm always openminded and willing to learn but you know, any tests can be done in a way that the "desired results" will show up. 
I just would like to follow your conclusions.

Thanks
Markus


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## fastpassthrough (Jan 25, 2003)

*arrow penetration*

Markus you are right any test can be manipulated to get the results you want and it is going to be hard to show everything but we will be doing a video when we get back from the show which as we all know can be edited. What i am doing is just posting the results of what i found in the best apples fpr apples test i could come up with I have started Newberry bows on honesty and if i fudged the numbers it would not look good and there would be no trust in me or my company. we shot into a block and that alone has different densities that will change results but we matched everthing as close as possible also when we shot the speed pro arrow we shot it first and with the new broad head so if anything it had a dissadvantage over the rest of the arrows becuase the block was new more on this to come 
Richard


NEWBERRY BOWS
END OF STORY!


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## deerheaven (Apr 27, 2003)

*SPEED PRO MAX*

my wife and i plan to order the speed pro max arrows when we order our newberry bows this week. we trust richard 100% in knowing what is best to shoot with HIS bow, the newberry bow. i have been hunting for over 25 years. let me tell you, i have NEVER spoken to ANYONE more knowledgable and personable with his equipment he makes, than richard. we are not bashing by any means, any other bow company. but its nice to be known by your name and not a serial number off your bow. END OF STORY!


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

Its funny how the Speed Pro Max .... staffers fight for these shafts in every section of this forum , but how can somebody who states that he hunt for 25 years forget all the technical facts and physics only because of promoting a product .Tell me , Richard , how much did you pay for these posts .


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## american made (Dec 16, 2003)

when the wine is FINE, you ain't gotta pay NOBODY to drink it. THEY pay you.
i think thats called a buisness transaction!


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

And a fine wine doesn't need such an advertising .


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2004)

but a new fine wine may need exposure so that the rest of us will know it is available and is a fine wine.

I am ready to get my two dozen and put them through the ringer.


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## Dugga Boy (Apr 21, 2003)

_______


*CHEERS!!*


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