# Sticky  Broad Head Tuning - Simplified Tuning 101 - for Modern Compound bows



## cope-77

Gold Tip put out some tuning charts a few years back that make it pretty simple for the average hunter/archer to tune their bows. These are for the modern era. I take no credit for these charts, but have used them over and over again to rectify situations and issues I’ve had. It would be nice if this could be made a “Sticky” for all to reference. Good luck and happy hunting!


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## Howitzer7

Nock Left - Broadhead Misses Right

Broadhead hitting right is the same as bareshafts hitting right or a tail left tear.
Tighten Left Yoke
Loosen Right Yoke
Rest Right
Spine too Weak
Shim Cam(s) to the Left
Crank flex guard out for less sideways string pressure / less string clearance.

Nock Right - Broadhead misses Left

Broadhead hitting left is the same as bareshafts hitting left or a tail right tear.
Tighten Right Yoke
Loosen Left Yoke
Rest Left
Spine too Stiff
Shim Cam(s) to the Right
Crank down flex guard for more sideways string pressure / more string clearance.

Nock High - Broadhead Misses Low

Visualize an arrow pointed down - it will miss low as a bare shaft or broadhead
Raise the rest up to correct
Or, lower nocking point & D-loop
Or, tighten control cable to bring bottom cam ahead
Or, lengthen buss cable to bring top cam back towards even or hitting behind bottom cam

Nock Low - Broadhead Misses High

Visualize an arrow pointed up - it will miss high as a bare shaft or broadhead
Lower the rest down to correct
Or, raise nocking point & D-loop
Or, tighten buss cable to bring top cam ahead
Or, loosen control cable to bring bottom cam behind


Thanks to Brendan @ Rockslide.


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## cope-77

Howitzer7 said:


> Nock Left - Broadhead Misses Right
> 
> Broadhead hitting right is the same as bareshafts hitting right or a tail left tear.
> Tighten Left Yoke
> Loosen Right Yoke
> Rest Right
> Spine too Weak
> Shim Cam(s) to the Left
> Crank flex guard out for less sideways string pressure / less string clearance.
> 
> Nock Right - Broadhead misses Left
> 
> Broadhead hitting left is the same as bareshafts hitting left or a tail right tear.
> Tighten Right Yoke
> Loosen Left Yoke
> Rest Left
> Spine too Stiff
> Shim Cam(s) to the Right
> Crank down flex guard for more sideways string pressure / more string clearance.
> 
> Nock High - Broadhead Misses Low
> 
> Visualize an arrow pointed down - it will miss low as a bare shaft or broadhead
> Raise the rest up to correct
> Or, lower nocking point & D-loop
> Or, tighten control cable to bring bottom cam ahead
> Or, lengthen buss cable to bring top cam back towards even or hitting behind bottom cam
> 
> Nock Low - Broadhead Misses High
> 
> Visualize an arrow pointed up - it will miss high as a bare shaft or broadhead
> Lower the rest down to correct
> Or, raise nocking point & D-loop
> Or, tighten buss cable to bring top cam ahead
> Or, loosen control cable to bring bottom cam behind
> 
> 
> Thanks to Brendan @ Rockslide.


That's what the charts say.


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## deadquiet

IMHO people are afraid to move the rests. I use to be that way.....you think man I don't want to mess up my tune and make it worse so they move the rest a little bit one way and stop.

I got frustrated one day decades ago and moved the rest a LOT in one direction ( I was convinced I needed to go) and they got worse so then I moved it a LOT in the other direction and the BH & FT's swapped sides. Ok the light bulb came on at that moment.

So it hit me if one direction made the BH right of the filed tip and the other extreme made them left of the field tips then obviously the right spot is in-between those points somewhere..........I just have to find it...........so I moved it in little increments until I did.

If they never swaps sides (L&R or Up & Down) .......that's when you have contact, form issues, cams sync issues etc etc etc......but don't start being overwhelmed and confused....start easy and go from there.


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## Howitzer7

deadquiet said:


> IMHO people are afraid to move the rests. I use to be that way.....you think man I don't want to mess up my tune and make it worse so they move the rest a little bit one way and stop.
> 
> I got frustrated one day decades ago and moved the rest a LOT in one direction ( I was convinced I needed to go) and they got worse so then I moved it a LOT in the other direction and the BH & FT's swapped sides. Ok the light bulb came on at that moment.
> 
> So it hit me if one direction made the BH right of the filed tip and the other extreme made them left of the field tips then obviously the right spot is in-between those points somewhere..........I just have to find it...........so I moved it in little increments until I did.
> 
> If they never swaps sides (L&R or Up & Down) .......that's when you have contact, form issues, cams sync issues etc etc etc......but don't start being overwhelmed and confused....start easy and go from there.


Exactly.

When I first got into archery - I always had the Pro Shop work on the bow. 

But for some odd reason - there tune never matched my tune. I came to the conclusion that the best way to hammer down what you want - whether it's a bullet hole, broadheads grouping, etc - is to LEARN and to do it yourself.

Yeah - I've screwed things up in the past as a "noob". I have: burnt my string trying to burn serving after tying a nock. I've had an instance where my cable wasn't all the way in the valley of my roller guard after un pressing the bow. And others...

But it's rewarding learning, having troubles, and troubleshooting - and then getting the results YOU want. 

Plus - that Pro Shop was like a 40min drive both ways...


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## cope-77

One thing people need to remember when using these charts is there are steps to complete before these. Always make sure your cams/bows are in time/spec, you don’t have fletching contact, or have major form issues.


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## cope-77




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## Cemuhlbeier

#1 - make sure you don't have fletch contact. Then tune according to this chart.. this chart is your only real reference needed. Paper Tune = Bareshaft Tune = Broadhead Tune. Personally I make sure my bareshaft is remotely close then I skip to the end goal. Making my broadhead fly with my field tips. 

I also agree with the sentiment that moving your rest within 1/8 or a little more is no big deal.


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## Double_D_

Not a bad idea to also include the cause and affect relationship related to torque and how that affects bareshaft/broadhead flight.

IME,
Torquing to the right (pointing the front stabilizer right) induces nock right flight and vice versa.


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## Double_D_

Not a bad idea to also include the cause and affect relationship related to torque and how that affects bareshaft/broadhead flight.

IME,
Torquing to the right (pointing the front stabilizer right) induces nock right flight and vice versa.


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## raisins

deadquiet said:


> IMHO people are afraid to move the rests. I use to be that way.....you think man I don't want to mess up my tune and make it worse so they move the rest a little bit one way and stop.
> 
> I got frustrated one day decades ago and moved the rest a LOT in one direction ( I was convinced I needed to go) and they got worse so then I moved it a LOT in the other direction and the BH & FT's swapped sides. Ok the light bulb came on at that moment.
> 
> So it hit me if one direction made the BH right of the filed tip and the other extreme made them left of the field tips then obviously the right spot is in-between those points somewhere..........I just have to find it...........so I moved it in little increments until I did.
> 
> If they never swaps sides (L&R or Up & Down) .......that's when you have contact, form issues, cams sync issues etc etc etc......but don't start being overwhelmed and confused....start easy and go from there.


yep, those charts are a good starting point....but sometimes you have to move it the other way instead


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## jcassell1

Does this apply to lefty's as well?


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## Mossy-Back

jcassell1 said:


> Does this apply to lefty's as well?


Yes. Paper tuning is the same regardless.


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## loujo61

raisins said:


> yep, those charts are a good starting point....but sometimes you have to move it the other way instead


Yes, with my older Elites the cams leaned bad at full draw so moving the rest to the left to correct the right tear or bare shaft/broadhead left POI did not work, you had to go the other way to correct it. With other bows that didn't lean at full draw (the ones I could yolk tune) the charts ^^ worked fine.


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## loujo61

Double_D_ said:


> Not a bad idea to also include the cause and affect relationship related to torque and how that affects bareshaft/broadhead flight.
> 
> IME,
> Torquing to the right (pointing the front stabilizer right) induces nock right flight and vice versa.


I think all we are really doing is torque tuning our bows so the bare shafts and broadheads land with the field points.


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## raisins

loujo61 said:


> Yes, with my older Elites the cams leaned bad at full draw so moving the rest to the left to correct the right tear or bare shaft/broadhead left POI did not work, you had to go the other way to correct it. With other bows that didn't lean at full draw (the ones I could yolk tune) the charts ^^ worked fine.


yep, just wanted to throw that out there to keep folks from being too dogmatic


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## cope-77

raisins said:


> yep, just wanted to throw that out there to keep folks from being too dogmatic


So, with really bad cam lean, don’t you think you should shim your cams, to get your bow into better spec, as mentioned above, so you can follow the proper charts?


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## raisins

cope-77 said:


> So, with really bad cam lean, don’t you think you should shim your cams, to get your bow into better spec, as mentioned above, so you can follow the proper charts?


i wasn't meaning to make that point by agreeing in a certain sense

what i mean is that the standard approach is good to know and should be tried first but if it does not work then prior to doing anything else, simply try moving the rest in the other direction and see if that works because it sometimes does

edit: but of course keep your eye out for cam lean and other extreme situations from the start....cam lean or anything else doesn't factor into what i said


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## loujo61

cope-77 said:


> So, with really bad cam lean, don’t you think you should shim your cams, to get your bow into better spec, as mentioned above, so you can follow the proper charts?


You can shim them but when you are drawing some of the older binary cams (both cables on one side) at 31" they still lean bad. They don't follow the charts.


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## cope-77

loujo61 said:


> You can shim them but when you are drawing some of the older binary cams (both cables on one side) at 31" they still lean bad. They don't follow the charts.


I’m not buying that either. I’m shooting an Energy 35 and a Victory 37. Both binary, both with cables on the same side, and I have a 30.5 draw length. I’m following the Gold Tip charts, and they work perfect for me.


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## loujo61

cope-77 said:


> I’m not buying that either. I’m shooting and Energy 35 and a Victory 37. Both binary, both with cables on the same side, and I have a 30.5 draw length. I’m following the Gold Tip charts, and they work perfect for me.


Did they have bad cam lean? I had two Victory 39s and an Enlist that didn't play by the rules so I guess results may vary. I know Bowtech and Elite addressed that problem with their newer binary cam bows by attaching the cables on both sides of the cams.


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## cope-77

loujo61 said:


> Did they have bad cam lean? I had two Victory 39s and an Enlist that didn't play by the rules so I guess results may vary. I know Bowtech and Elite addressed that problem with their newer binary cam bows by attaching the cables on both sides of the cams.


They are binary, so yes, they have lean, but they are not bad IMO. I had an Obsession Addiction that was bad with lean, looked like it should derail when you shot it, but it still broad head tuned the same way.


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## loujo61

cope-77 said:


> They are binary, so yes, they have lean, but they are not bad IMO. I had an Obsession Addiction that was bad with lean, looked like it should derail when you shot it, but it still broad head tuned the same way.


I never hunted with the 39s only bare shaft tuned them for 3D, the Enlist leaned bad at 30" but l could get a Grim Reaper practice head to land with a field point but not by using that ^^ chart, by trimming the arrows and experimenting with tip weights, tuning the arrow to the bow. Shot mechs good and I killed everything I shot at but I since gave in and bought a bow that I can yolk tune so now I tune the bow to the arrow. If the cams are straight at brace and leaned at full draw there's no way the arrow can be pushed inline with the string, you are always going to have some lateral nock travel with those designs.


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## Shooter Mike

I think sometimes too, people are reluctant to adjust cam timing because either the cables are in the recommended timing marks on the cam, or they haven’t put it on a draw board and been fanatical about getting both cables to hit the stops at the same time. 

Don’t overlook speeding up or slowing down a cam to move the nock low/high issues. 


Semper Fi,
Mike


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## cope-77

Shooter Mike said:


> I think sometimes too, people are reluctant to adjust cam timing because either the cables are in the recommended timing marks on the cam, or they haven’t put it on a draw board and been fanatical about getting both cables to hit the stops at the same time.
> 
> Don’t overlook speeding up or slowing down a cam to move the nock low/high issues.
> 
> 
> Semper Fi,
> Mike


Too other extent, a lot of people don’t have the equipment to make all of those adjustments, or the new timing adjustable bows. They take it to a shop, get it timed (hopefully), and initially setup (to hopefully close). We all know the roll of the dice on that. The rest adjustments and cable guard adjustments may be all they can do. They can get a good amount of tuning out of the rest itself, if it maintains spec for the bow.


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## Shooter Mike

cope-77 said:


> Too other extent, a lot of people don’t have the equipment to make all of those adjustments, or the new timing adjustable bows. They take it to a shop, get it timed (hopefully), and initially setup (to hopefully close). We all know the roll of the dice on that. The rest adjustments and cable guard adjustments may be all they can do. They can get a good amount of tuning out of the rest itself, if it maintains spec for the bow.


You’re right- not all have the tools needed. Probably the only truly innovative things with the new Mathews bows this year is the Stay Afield System. While I haven’t used mine yet (since I have a press), I think it’s biggest benefit is to allow the average person the ability to work on their bow without a press. I hope to see more manufactures provide this capability just for that reason. 


Semper Fi,
Mike


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## cope-77

Shooter Mike said:


> You’re right- not all have the tools needed. Probably the only truly innovative things with the new Mathews bows this year is the Stay Afield System. While I haven’t used mine yet (since I have a press), I think it’s biggest benefit is to allow the average person the ability to work on their bow without a press. I hope to see more manufactures provide this capability just for that reason.
> 
> 
> Semper Fi,
> Mike


IDK if I’d call that true “innovation” since you can get the same thing, if not more, out of a portable press like a Bowmaster or so on, at a fraction of the price that Mathews tags on for it. Other manufactures have given more innovation in the tuning of bows over the past few years well beyond that (APA, Bowtech, Elite). However, most of these don’t allow for the horizontal adjustments, just the lateral. APA will allow for horizontal with their pin system. We could get into the whole argument about the screwdriver in the cam for tuning, but cams nowadays wont handle it.


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## Shooter Mike

cope-77 said:


> IDK if I’d call that true “innovation” since you can get the same thing, if not more, out of a portable press like a Bowmaster or so on, at a fraction of the price that Mathews tags on for it. Other manufactures have given more innovation in the tuning of bows over the past few years well beyond that (APA, Bowtech, Elite). However, most of these don’t allow for the horizontal adjustments, just the lateral. APA will allow for horizontal with their pin system. We could get into the whole argument about the screwdriver in the cam for tuning, but cams nowadays wont handle it.


I don’t completely disagree, but the SAS is probably the most innovation to come from them for some time. While this isn’t the place to get in to this discussion, I think innovation has been absent from Mathews for quite some time, and has been replaced with gimmick and marketing, yet I still buy a few of them every year. I guess it’s that “comfortable old shoe” syndrome. 

APA, with the right marketing, could be a dominant brand. 

But I’m also growing tired of all of the gimmicks sold as “tech” on bows these days. I could buy two brand new Bear Adapt bows for the price of one of my V3X’s and have no lesser of an experience. I’m sensing others are beginning to see this too. Perhaps we’ll begin to see some more budget-minded offerings and less focus on flagship. I dunno … Margins are probably higher on a flagship bow though. Just guessing, a 2:1 ratio. 


Semper Fi,
Mike


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## mfroah

cope-77 said:


> View attachment 7693351
> View attachment 7693352


Thanks for this info!!


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## The Old Guy

Anything that’s helps someone tune their equipment is a good thing. I tune bows all the time and have to think “which way do I move this”. Probably because I am old.


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## loujo61

This thread reminds me of when I first checked out one of Nuts & Bolts threads on yolk tuning probably over 15 years ago, what a light bulb moment! I had a Mathews bow and I went out and tuned those bare shafts right in the middle, I've learned so much on this site over the years thanks to smart generous Guys like him.


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## Beendare

Good stuff.
I always start by checking timing marks and exact axle to axle measurements as first steps.

Note- if you skip steps, it can result in frustration

Edit: Ive been shooting a recurve for many years but this is my tuning process;

1. Set the bow to factory specs; cam timing, axle to axle, rest
Cams- most have timing marks now. If not, check on a draw board at full draw then scribe the cam
Axle- factory distance is a perfect cable and string setup
Rest- its usually 13/16” in the new compounds but its designed to shoot at factory distance. Dropaway rests need to be timed to come up late

2. Make sure your arrows arent underspined. A over spine arrow tunes well in a modern compound. spin check arrows for perfect straightness and nok tightness.

3. set string loop with a spacer ( wraps of floss or thread) so the loop isnt tight on the nok

At this point you have multiple options for arrow tune; shooting a bareshaft with FPs, shoot paper, or just shoot BHs and FPs. Follow the charts in the OP.

Worth noting;
Paper tune with FPs is only 1/2 tuned

If your BHs dont hit with FPs, the BH arrow is telling you your arrows are coming out of the bow cockeyed. When the BH arrow hits with FPs, thats when your arrows are truly coming out of the bow perfectly straight.

When BHs aren’t perfect:
1. If the above steps are done and BHs still don’t hit with FPs its worth experimenting with your form and grip before you start moving stuff. Sometimes its just a minor grip change. Check form alignment.

2. check for fletch contact with powder.

3. Bow Adjustments; It usually takes tiny movements to get it right. That can either be accomplished by adjusting yokes, shimming cams, twisting the Yokes or tiny 1/32” rest moves. If you move your rest more than about 3/16” from factory recommended setting, something else is wrong…it doesnt take that much.

Rest adjustments are tricky. when I BH tune; shoot BHs and FPs for groups- I typically chase the FP group ( move rest toward the FP group) in 1/32” incriments. This usually works…but if not….(and you have checked all of the other factors above) I have had it where a paper tuned for FP was past the perfect setting- over adjusted- and to keep chasing FPs with my rest made it worse, I went back a tad and it tuned perfect. 

Point is; its never much past factory recommended setting for your rest. 


I probably forgot something…but thats essentially my process. If you skip a step….or have a form flaw especially alignment…or are shooting arrows that don’t spin perfect….you will not get that bow to tune.

I hope that helps….Best wishes to my bowhunting brothers….

It sounds like a lot ^ but its one of those things thats worth getting your arms around, understanding the factors in perfect arrow flight. Your bow will be quieter, faster, smoother…and more forgiving of a form error in the woods.
.


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## The African Allure

Some good information in this thread - thank you for sharing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## longbeard02

Great post and info!


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## Beendare

*Tuning is a worthy exercise.* Anyone who has done it will tell you the same….its a revelation. 

I know many bowhunters that thought they were shooting well( untuned) and after the tuning process they were surprised at how pinpoint accurate they actually were- the untuned bow was holding them back. 

To add;
We get a lot of guys posting on AT that are starting in the middle of the tuning process, skipping steps.

That might work…but if your cams are off…or your ATA ( axle to axle) …or you have fletch contact….or form issues….you can move your rest all you want and never get it to tune.

Form;
Form plays a big part, for example; I can be perfectly tuned…then vary my grip and shoot a bareshaft and it flys terrible. Its worth trying different grip positions before moving a bunch of stuff around- heck, you bow might be tuned and you don’t know it.

*The problems I’ve seen most for bows that won’t tune: *

1) under spined arrows- guys following these 3 decades old charts. If you are in the supposed sweet spot on a chart…you still might be underspined in a hunt arrow with a longer than field point tip Broadhead. A BH affects spine more than a FP. 
Go one size stiffer…it works.

2) Guys moving their rest too much. From your Bows designated center shot, if you go more than a 1/16” and its not tuning….….you probably went too far or there is something else going on with your form or cams. Move your rest in 1/32” increments.

3) Guys paper testing FPs and think they are done. Nope, thats the 1/2 way point If you are going to shoot BHs.

*Lastly, tuning is about the most frustrating thing on the planet when you are new to it- we have all been there. The reason is there are many moving parts with shooting a perfect arrow. Its best to make one tiny change…then check. Frustrated, step away. *

Know that tuning is a sum of the parts… many times its a couple tiny things that are making it not tune. Sometimes we get lucky…and its one thing…that means you are doing everything else right- bingo.

Best wishes to all my bowhunting brothers…things can get adversarial on forums…lets stick together to defend our sport.

.


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## cope-77

Beendare said:


> *Tuning is a worthy exercise.* Anyone who has done it will tell you the same….its a revelation.
> 
> I know many bowhunters that thought they were shooting well( untuned) and after the tuning process they were surprised at how pinpoint accurate they actually were- the untuned bow was holding them back.
> 
> To add;
> We get a lot of guys posting on AT that are starting in the middle of the tuning process, skipping steps.
> 
> That might work…but if your cams are off…or your ATA ( axle to axle) …or you have fletch contact….or form issues….you can move your rest all you want and never get it to tune.
> 
> Form;
> Form plays a big part, for example; I can be perfectly tuned…then vary my grip and shoot a bareshaft and it flys terrible. Its worth trying different grip positions before moving a bunch of stuff around- heck, you bow might be tuned and you don’t know it.
> 
> *The problems I’ve seen most for bows that won’t tune: *
> 
> 1) under spined arrows- guys following these 3 decades old charts. If you are in the supposed sweet spot on a chart…you still might be underspined in a hunt arrow with a longer than field point tip Broadhead. A BH affects spine more than a FP.
> Go one size stiffer…it works.
> 
> 2) Guys moving their rest too much. From your Bows designated center shot, if you go more than a 1/16” and its not tuning….….you probably went too far or there is something else going on with your form or cams. Move your rest in 1/32” increments.
> 
> 3) Guys paper testing FPs and think they are done. Nope, thats the 1/2 way point If you are going to shoot BHs.
> 
> *Lastly, tuning is about the most frustrating thing on the planet when you are new to it- we have all been there. The reason is there are many moving parts with shooting a perfect arrow. Its best to make one tiny change…then check. Frustrated, step away. *
> 
> Know that tuning is a sum of the parts… many times its a couple tiny things that are making it not tune. Sometimes we get lucky…and its one thing…that means you are doing everything else right- bingo.
> 
> Best wishes to all my bowhunting brothers…things can get adversarial on forums…lets stick together to defend our sport.
> 
> .


I couldn’t say it much better. Agree 100%


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## reddogjack

Hi,

when i get my field points an broadheads hitting together...

it's like Magic 

don't ya lov it when a plan comes together !


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## slowen




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## Turkey Agent

Tag


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## TheSchwartz

Thanks for posting this! I've never tuned my own bow but it's about time.


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## sixn2thirds

Same here. Always wanted to but afraid I would really screw something up. I probably will, but I’m trying it.


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## DeereHunter

sixn2thirds said:


> Same here. Always wanted to but afraid I would really screw something up. I probably will, but I’m trying it.


It is satisfying getting your bow tuned perfectly. If something you do makes your issue worse, just undo it. I always make sure to change one thing at a time and in small increments.


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## VizslaCopper701

cope-77 said:


> View attachment 7693351
> View attachment 7693352


Thanks for this


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## VizslaCopper701

DeereHunter said:


> It is satisfying getting your bow tuned perfectly. If something you do makes your issue worse, just undo it. I always make sure to change one thing at a time and in small increments.


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