# Using 3D Nock Buster Points causes fight..



## Demp223

Just change up who shoots first and if he isn't willing to he wont be shooting with us. It's only fair that everyone takes turns being first.Perfect example is today a guy got his pin nock blown out back of arrow and arrow damaged.I got my nock broken off as well but collar saved arrow. It happens when your first in the X. The only time there really is an issue is if guy is shooting the spiral cut tips. They do lots of damage to the shafts as they slide by.


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## D.Short

I agree about the spiral turbo tips,shops around here don't allow them,hard on shafts and they ruin targets by actually chewing them up like a drill bit.


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## nickel shooter5

Rotate in the group. Nock busters or not, if your arrows in the way ...... LOOK OUT... if you don't want your arrow hit don't put it in the X... Its safe if I'm shooting though ...


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## jcspeer

It comes with the territory! I agree with rotating who goes first. But still it's all part of hanging out in the ring!


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## Bowtechie

For indoor 3D with the generally closer shots I vote uncool. You don't see those points outside at all. If you upset enough people by allowing them to be shot you will lose people. These are not the average points we're talking about here. A regular point might break a nock where these will just out right trash the arrow.


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## lzeplin

yep,, if you want to get your arse kicked just use them,, most people that use them are A- holes anyway......


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## daniel22

haha they sell them for a reason dont they. SO YOUR ARROWS DONT GET KICKED EVERYWHERE.. if they sell them then they can be shot, and no where in asa fita or anywhere do it say you cant shoot them.... so he should keep shootin them and breaking arrows,


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## damnyankee

Most people are a holes that use them...Funny Darrin Christenberry uses them, one of the nicest guys on the tour.


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## bow-legged

At a big national shoot I have no problem. If it is some local indoor 3d shoot and targets are only out to 30 yards then I think i would be upset also.
If I went to your indoor shoot and had three four arrows busted every time I would not go back. Cant be good for your business I would outlaw them.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

Now I'm gonna just hafta get some to add to my a-hole vanes and knocks.


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## dgmeadows

Great - I just bought some to set up my Fatboys for the upcoming 3D season. My intention was not to hurt the other guy's arrows, but to reduce the kick outs I was getting with regular glue in points off of pin knocks.... So, am I the jerk for trying to perserve my score, or are the other guys the jerks for using pin nocks ?

That's a rhetorical question, I am still going to use them...


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## JAG

if they are legal to use, then so be it.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

Someone got me....








But not without this....









Guess it's the price of playing the game.*


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## VeroShooter

3d is equipment warfare. Someone finds a nock or bushing that kicks others arrows in to the outer rings so someone else finds a point that combats the effect of that nock or bushing. Its a game and its fun. I guess we should say anyone who shoots pin bushings, black vanes, black nocks, pin points, big bushy feathers for vanes, bright nocks that show up in the sun and appear to "suck you over", fat arrows that take up too much room in the 12 ring etc etc etc are a bunch of jerks and should not be allowed to use them


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## bluerocker

so now just breaking someone's nock, isn't good enough you have to destroy there arrow,, If you show up at a local shoot and destroy a couple of my arrows, I'm going to show you how to break a 33" b-stinger,, over you head,, If easton gave me 5 dozen arrows a year and I was shooting in the pro class for thousands of dollars then go for it,, untill then you better stay clear of me with them.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

Bluerocker....You just fell off your rocker. Arrows get hit, the get damaged....it's gonna happen when you have 4-5 guys trying to hit 12s Shooting these huge arrows. Best stay at your local range with that attitude, btw where is your local range.


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## dgmeadows

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> Bluerocker....You just fell off your rocker. Arrows get hit, the get damaged....it's gonna happen when you have 4-5 guys trying to hit 12s Shooting these huge arrows. Best stay at your local range with that attitude, btw where is your local range.


Amen to that... Like I said before, the purpose of these points as I see it is not to destroy the other guy's arrow, but to reduce the bump outs when you're stuck going last and there are already arrows in the 12 or 14 ring. I am sure there are some that will use them to mess up their buddies' arrows "in fun", but my goal will be to slip that tiny point past that arrow in the way, and if there is some bumping as it slides by, I hope it will be a glancing blow that will let my arrow stay in the 12 or 14, or 10, not a big slap on the pin nock and a detour out to the 8 or 5 like I have had the last couple of seasons. If the pin-point shooter is aiming just beside the arrow in the way, the pin-point may actually prevent a busted nock or split shaft that would've happened with a regular point. I have 1/2 dozen or more arrows damaged every year, and even more uni-bushings and nocks. It is just part of the game. If anyone is going to get that upset over their arrow getting dinged, they have deeper problems.


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## asa_low12

bluerocker said:


> so now just breaking someone's nock, isn't good enough you have to destroy there arrow,, If you show up at a local shoot and destroy a couple of my arrows, I'm going to show you how to break a 33" b-stinger,, over you head,, If easton gave me 5 dozen arrows a year and I was shooting in the pro class for thousands of dollars then go for it,, untill then you better stay clear of me with them.[/QUOTE
> 
> LMAO-- Some people.....


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## bow-legged

Outdoors is different if your shooting 25-30 yard indoor I think it's not cool. I'm not going to fight or tear something up I'm just not going to be in your group. If I can't shoot I will just go home!


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## J Whittington

I can understand an argument against using them for indoor 3-D short ranges,,, but everyone has the right to choose and use their own equipment. thats one of the reasons why people should rotate the shooting order...

not worth fighting over.


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## BrownDog2

bow-legged said:


> Outdoors is different if your shooting 25-30 yard indoor I think it's not cool. I'm not going to fight or tear something up I'm just not going to be in your group. If I can't shoot I will just go home!


If you are going to shoot you pin nocks I'm going to shoot my nock busters. now with that I don't use them but why would it be ok to use pin nocks but not nock busters.


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## daniel22

bluerocker said:


> so now just breaking someone's nock, isn't good enough you have to destroy there arrow,, If you show up at a local shoot and destroy a couple of my arrows, I'm going to show you how to break a 33" b-stinger,, over you head,, If easton gave me 5 dozen arrows a year and I was shooting in the pro class for thousands of dollars then go for it,, untill then you better stay clear of me with them.


HAHA wow thats funny... Wish i was shooting with you at a local so i couls send one of these 100gr nock busters right through the back of your arrow.. 
if people complain about people shooting them then why do you shoot with them?
its just like someone shooting pin nocks, and nobody crys about that... let people chose there own equipment and you choose yours, its not his fault his equipment wins everytime.....


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## okarcher

If you shoot in groups arrows are open season its just how the game is played. If you don't wont arrows destroyed don't shoot that style of archery. Some of these comments are just plain outragous.


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## TAYLOR CO.

BrownDog2 said:


> If you are going to shoot you pin nocks I'm going to shoot my nock busters. now with that I don't use them but why would it be ok to use pin nocks but not nock busters.


Good post. I agree.


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## TAYLOR CO.

Very good post too dgmeadows and very good points.


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## bow-legged

BrownDog2 said:


> If you are going to shoot you pin nocks I'm going to shoot my nock busters. now with that I don't use them but why would it be ok to use pin nocks but not nock busters.[/


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## asa1485

If they are legal, then by all means use them. It is the price of playing the game. None of us like having to constantly by new arrows and so on. But, if we are going to play, it is going to happen.

I have robin hooded plenty of arrows and had plenty of mine done the same way. It happens.


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## RickinMo

> so now just breaking someone's nock, isn't good enough you have to destroy there arrow,, If you show up at a local shoot and destroy a couple of my arrows, I'm going to show you how to break a 33" b-stinger,, over you head,, If easton gave me 5 dozen arrows a year and I was shooting in the pro class for thousands of dollars then go for it,, untill then you better stay clear of me with them.





> *if you don't want your arrow hit don't put it in the X.*


Yep. that bout sums it up for me too

Rick


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## reckless

if they are legal its fine.
if your arrow is in the X its fair game.
if you dont want to risk it stay out of the X
anyway busted arrows means you have the perfect excuse to go get some more.


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## Sith of Archery

bow-legged said:


> Outdoors is different if your shooting 25-30 yard indoor I think it's not cool. I'm not going to fight or tear something up I'm just not going to be in your group. If I can't shoot I will just go home!


the pin busters are destroying arrows....arrows cost a lot of $$$$$ pin nocks may kick you out of/ or into the 12 but they don't usually don't destroy someones arrow...


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## SonnyThomas

asa1485 said:


> If they are legal, then by all means use them. It is the price of playing the game. None of us like having to constantly by new arrows and so on. But, if we are going to play, it is going to happen.
> 
> I have robin hooded plenty of arrows and had plenty of mine done the same way. It happens.


Gots to agree. Arrow damage is a hazard of archery, not just 3D. In my first 2 Day Field event had 11 arrows hit and cracked, nocks broke, and vanes torn. In my second 2 Day Field event I had 14 arrows done the same way. In neither of these events were points deemed nock busters. Want stunned, lower jaw fall to the ground? Drill the X on the 70 yard Hunter round and then have someone Robin Hood your arrow. Yeah, I was stunned.
Of course it seems okay for someone to try the steel targets at 3Ds and bust an arrow.


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## VeroShooter

Sith of Archery said:


> the pin busters are destroying arrows....arrows cost a lot of $$$$$ pin nocks may kick you out of/ or into the 12 but they don't usually don't destroy someones arrow...


Yeah but if I spend $1000.00 on trip to a national event and I am shooting well and I get kicked out of a couple of 12's by pin nocks then the pin nocks cost me a whole lot more than an arrow. Sorry but I feel that broken arrows are part of 3D and all you have to do is look at evryones tips in your group. If someone has the nockbusters and you don't like it then don't shoot with them or don't shoot at all. They are legal equipment so everyone has to deal with it. With all that said though I don't shoot them but would have no problem with someone else shooting them.


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## 3dshooter25

The reason for using them is to prevent getting kicked out as much. Getting kicked from a 12 to an 8 at an ASA National event sucks. Last year at one national tournament I got kicked from 12's to 8's on 2 targets and also from a 14 to a 5!!! Thats 17 points! That can mean the difference from winning to getting 30th place and finishing out of the money. I'm not saying that if I was using the nockbusters that I wouldnt have got kicked out at all, but I bet it would have prevented me from losing so many points. I don't use the nockbusters because they don't make a point to fit my X-Jammer 27 Pro's but If they ever do, you can bet that I will use them. You expect to have arrows broken at 3d shoots. I went through 2 dozen arrows last year alone from people breaking my arrows. Its just a part of the game.

If I was just shooting local tournaments I wouldnt need to use them because there isnt any money on the line. I don't have a problem with anyone using any product as long as its legal.


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## Hoytboy2

Its simple. Rotate the group. If you are in the X ring then expect some messed up shafts. Who ever cries then hand them a pacifier and a hanky and tell them too bad its part of the game.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

Wonder if the new full bore points would work? 




3dshooter25 said:


> The reason for using them is to prevent getting kicked out as much. Getting kicked from a 12 to an 8 at an ASA National event sucks. Last year at one national tournament I got kicked from 12's to 8's on 2 targets and also from a 14 to a 5!!! Thats 17 points! That can mean the difference from winning to getting 30th place and finishing out of the money. I'm not saying that if I was using the nockbusters that I wouldnt have got kicked out at all, but I bet it would have prevented me from losing so many points. I don't use the nockbusters because they don't make a point to fit my X-Jammer 27 Pro's but If they ever do, you can bet that I will use them. You expect to have arrows broken at 3d shoots. I went through 2 dozen arrows last year alone from people breaking my arrows. Its just a part of the game.
> 
> If I was just shooting local tournaments I wouldnt need to use them because there isnt any money on the line. I don't have a problem with anyone using any product as long as its legal.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY

Hoytboy2 said:


> Its simple. Rotate the group. If you are in the X ring then expect some messed up shafts. Who ever cries then hand them a pacifier and a hanky and tell them too bad its part of the game.


Exactly....Yes it cost money for arrows, but like it was said it cost alot more to travel to events and be kicked out, that kick out costing you points and $$. I've watched it happen and had it happen.


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## bluerocker

Around here we have shotgun starts at the local ranges.Ok lets say that someone who shows up to a local 3d shoot for the first time with just a hunter setup and has a half dozen arrows. He gets paired up with a couple guys shooting bushing busters. They break and bust up his arrows, and tear the fletching off the rest. Do you think he is ever going to come back?? I don’t, there bad for archery.. I have shot pins nocks and have lost tournament’s because of them.. But Im not going to start killing peoples arrows over it. Maybe they should ban pin nocks and bushing busters. Funny thing most of the people I’ve shot with at the asa’s Cant keep it in the ten ring. Last year I was paired up with a group shooting all black nocks and flecthing and both were wanting the new bushing busters . One of them shot like 34 down and the other 28 down on 20 targets and they were worried that someone would want to shoot at their arrows..


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## dgmeadows

bluerocker said:


> Around here we have shotgun starts at the local ranges.Ok lets say that someone who shows up to a local 3d shoot for the first time with just a hunter setup and has a half dozen arrows. He gets paired up with a couple guys shooting bushing busters. They break and bust up his arrows, and tear the fletching off the rest. Do you think he is ever going to come back?? I don’t, there bad for archery.. I have shot pins nocks and have lost tournament’s because of them.. But Im not going to start killing peoples arrows over it. Maybe they should ban pin nocks and bushing busters. Funny thing most of the people I’ve shot with at the asa’s Cant keep it in the ten ring. Last year I was paired up with a group shooting all black nocks and flecthing and both were wanting the new bushing busters . One of them shot like 34 down and the other 28 down on 20 targets and they were worried that someone would want to shoot at their arrows..


First time shooter with hunter set-up.... probably won't be shooting fat shafts, and even more doubtful he is going to be blocking the 12 ring every time if this is his first shoot. If it is a local weekend 3D, the pin-point shooters would likely try to shoot around his arrow in the occasional event that he is in the 12 or 14 in the way, because as shown above, the pin-points can be damaged themselves, and any time two shafts are side-slapping, either one or both can be damaged. The pin-points don't guarantee that you will stick the back of the other guy's shaft or not bounce out on an impact, they just reduce the likelihood. People shooting for score are still going to be aiming for the open part of the 12 or 14 ring. Yes, there will be the occasional smart-guy who will get his jollies out of trying to tear up others' arrows, but not everyone.

Essentially, the arguments against 3D archers using pin-points are the same as the Brady Campaign's arguments for gun control. It ain't the equipment that intentionally inflicts damage, it is the "tool" using the equipment that determines whether they are going to use the equipment the right way or the wrong way.


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## Bowtech n ROSS

I shot them all last year. They don't really help that much and if you do get someones arrow chances are its bending your point.


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## goofy2788

I shoot these same points....I've shot them in indoor 3D for the last two years....My last indoor score was a (20 target course) was a 209 with 11 x's...I shot in a group of 4 people...NOT A SINGLE BUSTED ARROW IN THE GROUP!!!!

I've shot national championships with some of the best in my class....NEVER HAVE WE HAD ALL ARROWS STACKED IN THE 11 THAT IVE BUSTED ONE OF THEIR NOCKS. 

The point I'm trying to make is it's not the point but the archer...if you aim for someones nock and hit it then all you've done is increased the possibility of having your arrow kick out. I aim for the open area next to that arrow that's sitting in the 11...If I get a 10 instead of an 11 because someone used a fat shaft and covered the ring...fine a 10 is still better then a kicked out 8. 

It amazes me how many people want to cry about equipment...as was stated, it's not the equipment but the person behind it. 

Shoot with respect and intelligence and you should never have an issue. That goes both ways....whether using pin busting tips or ring blocking arrows.


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## NY911

I use them...in the process of making up a batch of XXX's with them...but don't worry - unless your arrow is in the 8 ring..LOL


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## QCBowman

What's the difference between using those, Saunders, Easton, or any other sharp field point for that matter? All of the guys in the hunter class and most of them in the mbr are using their hunting arrows with screw in, and very sharp, tips. If your nock gets hit by one of them, it'll still do the same amount of damage. The pin points are a lot better than the gold tip points as far as kick outs are concerned. That's why I made the switch to the pin points.


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## SonnyThomas

bluerocker said:


> Around here we have shotgun starts at the local ranges.Ok lets say that someone who shows up to a local 3d shoot for the first time with just a hunter setup and has a half dozen arrows. He gets paired up with a couple guys shooting bushing busters. They break and bust up his arrows, and tear the fletching off the rest. Do you think he is ever going to come back?? QUOTE]
> 
> The game is competition. So bring plenty of arrows. Don't know about the IBO, but the ASA has in it's rules to bring enough arrows. The ASA new DAIR Indoor has a dropped arrow on the line stays dropped until after the end. So again, bring plenty of arrows.
> 
> Seems to me precision field tips have been around every since I can remember, carbide or tungsten tips. I've have a half dozen 100 grainers.
> 
> And then someone new to 3D is bound to lose more arrows by missing than being trashed by some other arrow. Again, a hazard of 3D and any other outdoor archery event.


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## Double B

BrownDog2 said:


> If you are going to shoot you pin nocks I'm going to shoot my nock busters. now with that I don't use them but why would it be ok to use pin nocks but not nock busters.


what if all they have are pin nocks for the XXX and X killers?


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## goofy2788

Double B said:


> what if all they have are pin nocks for the XXX and X killers?



Here's my out look...if you're going to shoot arrows that size in 3D where you know there are going to be more then just your arrow in the X ring then you better expect them to end up busted. 

I have no problem if thats what guys choose to shoot to help them "catch lines" but you better not whine when my standard shaft, combo tipped arrow blows it up because it's blocking the scoring rings.


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## treeman65

this could put a newe twist to 3d 
FULL CONTACT 3D I love it........


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## SonnyThomas

QCBowman said:


> Saunders, QUOTE]
> 
> Saunder's Combo. Now here's a field point that's been around for years and years and quite pointy. Never heard any complaints of it. Come to think of it, I've busted arrows or Robin Hooded arrows with just about every field point I've tried.


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## Kstigall

It's this simple:
- I use pin nocks to keep from getting so many busted arrows. NOT to kick your arrow to a lower score.
- IF I used pin points it would be to avoid hitting your arrow and pushing mine to a lower score.

It seems there are a lot of people that get puffed up about anything. If the course is so short that we are all packing them in the 12 it doesn't matter what point is used because arrows are going to get busted. Do pin points really ruin significantly more arrows? I would think the slender finer point would miss blowing an arrow up more often than a "shouldered" point. I bet when the pin point zero's an arrow it's more spectacular!


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## Double B

goofy2788 said:


> I have no problem if thats what guys choose to shoot to help them "catch lines" but you better not whine when my standard shaft, combo tipped arrow blows it up because it's blocking the scoring rings.


 I have no prolbem with arrows hitting mine but I also hear whining at shoots when my 520 gr XXX plows its way into the 12 at a close shot. I get the " people shouldnt be allowed to shoot those logs"


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## goofy2788

I


Double B said:


> I have no prolbem with arrows hitting mine but I also hear whining at shoots when my 520 gr XXX plows its way into the 12 at a close shot. I get the " people shouldnt be allowed to shoot those logs"


Sadly it seems there are to many men still wearing diapers out on the 3D course. Heck if my arrow is in the center...aim for it and blow it up if you have to...I bring extra just in case.


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## 3-D Quest

goofy2788 said:


> Sadly it seems there are to many men still wearing diapers out on the 3D course. Heck if my arrow is in the center...aim for it and blow it up if you have to...I bring extra just in case.


Well said! A little goofy, but well said!:wink:


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## Double B

goofy2788 said:


> I
> 
> Sadly it seems there are to many men still wearing diapers out on the 3D course. Heck if my arrow is in the center...aim for it and blow it up if you have to...I bring extra just in case.


so are you implying I am a cry baby?


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## Bowjoe1972

I dident start this thred to start anymore fights I just wanted to know if you guys thought it would be disrespectfull to shoot those pin points at a IBO or ASA shoot..Now you and your buddies on a course they know what to expect me and my friends nock hunt it fun to us we all have jobs to get new one's.. But at a higher level shoot do you fell it's disrespectfull to shoot them??


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## Cheerioette

I had a kid who was purposely aiming at my arrow, even if I ended up in the 8 ring. It was my third 3D tournament I ever shot in, so for half of the course I was just brushing it off as coincidence. After I asked one of the other guys I was shooting with, he said, "yeah I was thinking that about 10 targets ago." So I warned the kid if he broke one of my arrows I am taking one of his. Then "bumped" into his arrow on that target. He left me alone after that.

So... I guess if people are purposely trying to ruin my arrow on every shot then yeah I'd say something. Otherwise I just take it as part of shooting 3D. Anyone can buy these points...


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## Digital Chaos

nickel shooter5 said:


> Rotate in the group. Nock busters or not, if your arrows in the way ...... LOOK OUT... if you don't want your arrow hit don't put it in the X... Its safe if I'm shooting though ...


Amen....


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## ericfloyd

they are legal right? that should be the end of it.


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## goofy2788

Double B said:


> so are you implying I am a cry baby?


No absolutely not. I'm agreeing with you. The fact people whine regardless of what...fat shaft shooters whine because people use pin busting tips...pin busting tip users whine because people use fat shafts...its ridiculous. If the equipment is allowed by the governing body then you have no reason to whine! If you shoot a fat shaft and block me from the 11 ring then good for you...if you shoot a fat shaft and I blow it up and get an 11 good for me. Knock outs and busted nocks are all part of the game we play....if you don't like it, take up golf.


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## erictski

I just bought some for my CXL's...i will start the 3d season with them and if i have a problem then i guess i will go to the regular parabolic points...glad i read this cuz i didnt think it would be that big of a deal...


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## shine

Learned something new today. "Knock busters" Looked it up and thier website said this:

_"Designed to greatly reduce "kick outs" and offer greater front of center for increased accuracy and consistancy."_


I wonder if they named the product something else, if this discussion would even be going on?


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## CowboyJunkie

bluerocker said:


> so now just breaking someone's nock, isn't good enough you have to destroy there arrow,, If you show up at a local shoot and destroy a couple of my arrows, I'm going to show you how to break a 33" b-stinger,, over you head,, If easton gave me 5 dozen arrows a year and I was shooting in the pro class for thousands of dollars then go for it,, untill then you better stay clear of me with them.


Then my suggestion is stay on the porch with the pups and let the big dogs play the game.


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## vegas archer

Rubbing is racing!!!!!!!!! Just play the game.


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## solocam9696

If my arrow is in the X ring or 14 rings it open season on that arrow. Its the price you pay for playing the game and a good shot. Easton, Gold Tip, or Carbon Express they make arrows every day, and someone busting my arrows must of liked where it was or it wouldnt of got smacked.


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## IBOHunt3D

If you are shooting outside at an ASA or IBO, go for it. Shoot whatever point you want. If there are other arrows in the X or 12, everyone should understand arrows will get damaged, regardless of the point being used. However, if you are purposly hunting arrows and trying to destroy your opponents' gear, then shame on you.

The other thing to mention, has anybody thought that maybe the arrow companies make these points knowing that arrows will be trashed by them, thus upping the number of arrows they sell? Just some food for thought.

CG


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## erictski

Like i said i plan to use them but never thought i would see a thread with so much hate towards them. I cant imagine it being that big of a deal...during league there is a robin hood on the course at least every 2nd night and plenty of broken arrows and nocks anyway...i cant see these points increasing that that much.


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## PSE Kid

if you dont like breaking your arrows, then dont shoot in archery, if urs is in the 11 ring, do u want me to aim somewhere else to avoid yours, umm no. that wont happent


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## eljugador

bluerocker said:


> so now just breaking someone's nock, isn't good enough you have to destroy there arrow,, If you show up at a local shoot and destroy a couple of my arrows, I'm going to show you how to break a 33" b-stinger,, over you head,, If easton gave me 5 dozen arrows a year and I was shooting in the pro class for thousands of dollars then go for it,, untill then you better stay clear of me with them.


 I love it when keyboard tough guys reveal how much worse their bark is than their bite when live and in person. Someone wants to go after me physically for breaking an arrow of theirs by accident? Bring it. Like the man said "I'm your huckleberry."


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## pozoutdoors

I shoot with my friends. And if their shot looks good. I tell them I am aiming at their arrow. And several times I heard them say *****!!! I smacked there arrow. It is all fun!!!


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## fisher

we do not permit them to be used at our club,only because thay will ruin a 3d animal twice as fast as a normal points being used!


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## erictski

fisher said:


> we do not permit them to be used at our club,only because thay will ruin a 3d animal twice as fast as a normal points being used!


why would this be...its not a extra wide point...just a bit longer ...


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## NY911

fisher said:


> we do not permit them to be used at our club,only because thay will ruin a 3d animal twice as fast as a normal points being used!





erictski said:


> why would this be...its not a extra wide point...just a bit longer ...


Yes...please quantify this statement.


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## JimmyP

i shoot pin nocks and nock busters every point maters.if i travel across several states with two thousand dollars of equip.3 or 4 hundred dollars of gas and motel rooms shooter of the year and what place you can place in the turn.then the first guy puts a arrow in the bonus ring and.i am well with in all the rules of the game.even if you shoot black nocks witch i also like.im still aiming at that arrow.hoping of course i slide right beside it not wanting to hurt your or my arrow but wanting those points the better the guys are in your group the more arrows get damaged. thats the game.dont blame the shooters if you dont like it be come one of the top pro,s then your voice might matter.we all know they are the ones that they listen to when it comes to rules .for example they did not like the size of the 14 ring guess what they made it smaller same pro,s still won.then they did not like the 14 at all guess what they did away with it .do you remember what tim gill. did when he tried to get them to set a size standard in arrows be cause every year a company would make a arrow bigger than the next.he proved his point and they set a standard.point is take the proper steps and try to have a rule changed.dont get mad at a good o boy who loves this sport and goes by the rules when 15 dollar arrow gets hurt when a guy makes a great shot when he shoots a point that dont glance way off when it hits another arrow or shoots a pin nock when he is protecting his arrow.go shoot your best make alot of friends and have a blast.ps we are still stuck shooting now real small 14 now and the pros dont.and the same pros still win.


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## QCBowman

fisher said:


> we do not permit them to be used at our club,only because thay will ruin a 3d animal twice as fast as a normal points being used!


I disagree with this completely. The pin points spread out the material as they impact the target, allowing it to close and heal itself after the arrow is removed. The Gold Tip points tear the target as they impact causing irreperable damage to the foam. The pin points are much better for targets than other types, especially the combo points with the shoulders.


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## SonnyThomas

IBOHunt3D said:


> The other thing to mention, has anybody thought that maybe the arrow companies make these points knowing that arrows will be trashed by them, thus upping the number of arrows they sell? Just some food for thought.CG


OMG! 3D Clubs use steel targets to get kick backs from arrow companies? Shame on them!


fisher said:


> we do not permit them to be used at our club,only because thay will ruin a 3d animal twice as fast as a normal points being used!





QCBowman said:


> I disagree with this completely. The pin points spread out the material as they impact the target, allowing it to close and heal itself after the arrow is removed. The Gold Tip points tear the target as they impact causing irreperable damage to the foam. The pin points are much better for targets than other types, especially the combo points with the shoulders.


True and not true. Long pin point tips do allow deeper penetration to some degree, but the foam is spread out rather than possibly torn with fat type tips. The Saunders combo tip is contoured (smooth curved) and has no real shoulder.
A few of us have monitored equipment and targets at our and other clubs. One, we found crossbow use no more damaging to targets than with standard equipment. Note; it takes a crossbow of approx 175 pounds to equal a 65 pound compound. Worst offender of 3D targets; Nano arrows. Super thin and used with 60 or more pounds of draw weight they penetrated deeply, some fully penetrating the target, arrow sticking out of other side of target. Here, the Nano is actually breaking down both sides of the target. Some carbon arrows are naturally destructive as the heat generated and make up of the finish "burns" the foam onto the arrow. Pulling such arrow breaks down the target and of course the foam adhered to the shaft is (was) part of the target.


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## goofy2788

SonnyThomas said:


> OMG! 3D Clubs use steel targets to get kick backs from arrow companies? Shame on them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True and not true. Long pin point tips do allow deeper penetration to some degree, but the foam is spread out rather than possibly torn with fat type tips. The Saunders combo tip is contoured (smooth curved) and has no real shoulder.
> A few of us have monitored equipment and targets at our and other clubs. One, we found crossbow use no more damaging to targets than with standard equipment. Note; it takes a crossbow of approx 175 pounds to equal a 65 pound compound. Worst offender of 3D targets; Nano arrows. Super thin and used with 60 or more pounds of draw weight they penetrated deeply, some fully penetrating the target, arrow sticking out of other side of target. Here, the Nano is actually breaking down both sides of the target. *Some carbon arrows are naturally destructive as the heat generated and make up of the finish "burns" the foam onto the arrow. Pulling such arrow breaks down the target and of course the foam adhered to the shaft is (was) part of the target*.


We see the same thing at our course. It's really basic physics....the more surface area you have in contact the faster an object is going to decelerate thus reducing the depth of penetration.


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## Daniel Boone

BrownDog2 said:


> If you are going to shoot you pin nocks I'm going to shoot my nock busters. now with that I don't use them but why would it be ok to use pin nocks but not nock busters.


Good thought. If there legal there nothing you go do but take your arrows and go home. 
DB


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## NY911

Good info Sonny...great post


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## JimmyP

at a asa or ibo it does not matter the more it wears the target the better the hole to aim at the sale or repair or replace vitals any way


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## mcfd-1229

I shoot pro pin points but not to be a jerk or to bust anyone's gear, arrows aren't cheap I don't want mine torn up nor do I try to tear up anyone else's. But the first time I got kicked from a 14 to a 5, that kick out took me out of the money for my class. So that is why I now shoot them. Breaking arrows is part of the game it happens. I don't think that anyone is trying to on purpose


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## PSE Kid

would 3d nock buster or nock buster pins bust more arrows?


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## kaj4

this thread is funny, just ordered 2dozen of them from Lancaster Archery on tuesday. 39.95 a dozen. Fair is fair, every point counts!!!!!


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## JimmyP

i would rather some one tear the back of my arrow up where i cant shoot it than to bend my pin nock and me not now it .ten i shoot it and my nock breaks and dry fire my bow,or get a five because my nock was bent.iall so would rather shoot with guys that are good enough to hit my arrow at 40 plus yards when its there dont you love it when the guy turn to lead off first he will likely hit near the 12 which gives me something to aim at.dont you love it when the guy who shoots first hits it in the butt or neck


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## Bowjoe1972

I would shoot them also.I have always shot with good people in semi pro IBO shoots we hit each others arrows before @ Erie Dave B hit my lucky arrow on the first target.."Maybe thats why I shot like poop"" but thasts the price you pay all is fair in love war and 3D.. I wish they would make 80gr busters for Fatboys...


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## blazenarrow

News flash they sell them to anybody!


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## DDaily

blazenarrow said:


> News flash they sell them to anybody!


AMEN!! You want to shoot with the big dogs buy your own!!!!


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## ashx2

Are the 3D Nock Buster Points the ones that WDMJR3DBOWGUY posted a pic of? I am new to the 3D stuff and learning the likes and dislikes of everybody. 

Greg


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## DDaily

ashx2 said:


> Are the 3D Nock Buster Points the ones that WDMJR3DBOWGUY posted a pic of? I am new to the 3D stuff and learning the likes and dislikes of everybody.
> 
> Greg


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## shooter74

lzeplin said:


> yep,, if you want to get your arse kicked just use them,, most people that use them are A- holes anyway......



are you kidding me. i like to see that.


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## shooter74

kaj4 said:


> this thread is funny, just ordered 2dozen of them from Lancaster Archery on tuesday. 39.95 a dozen. Fair is fair, every point counts!!!!!


amen to that


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## shooter74

*lol*

if you dont want to play stay at home . crying about tips . lol


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## JimmyP

i ordered 2 dozen today


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## field14

Why hasn't anyone GRIPED about people shooting INDOOR 3-D's that use 26 or 27 diameter arrows? It is worse yet, than a nock buster point! The person with the 26 or 27 can take up most all of the 12 ring with those fat shafts, leaving no room in there for anyone else? Nobody crying about that, tho....at least I didn't pick up on it?
Then, if they're using pin nocks on those fat shafts, when you hit their arrow, you are likely to LOSE SCORE because it will kiss your arrow right out. Nobody crying about that?

There are NOT any rules against those Pro Points...so...use 'em, and it is part of the game. But to nearly come to blows over it is next to infantile.

You outlaw the points, then for INDOORS, outlaw FAT SHAFTS that take away your competitors' opportunity to have an open shot to the 12 ring because of the arrow itself taking up too much space and "spudding out" any equal chance for everyone having a clear shot to the center of the 12 ring.


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## dingus250x

i dunno about everyone else but when i go to a shoot i go to win, so im gonna have all the stuff on my equipment that will help me do this. honestly i think these points are awesome, anything to reduce kickouts is a plus. u would know what i mean if u are shooting for some cash and are in the hunt and get kicked out of a 12 or 14 into a five due to a pin nock or uni bushing, there is no worse of a feeling for me. arrows being broke is just part of archery, that is why we carry and buy more than one anyone with a brain knows that. for the guys that are griping and fighting about them, maybe they need to just stay home and shoot alone that way they are always the winner and dont get any of their preciouse arrows hit.


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## JimmyP

bully beat down in 3d


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## Just x's

bluerocker said:


> so now just breaking someone's nock, isn't good enough you have to destroy there arrow,, If you show up at a local shoot and destroy a couple of my arrows, I'm going to show you how to break a 33" b-stinger,, over you head,, If easton gave me 5 dozen arrows a year and I was shooting in the pro class for thousands of dollars then go for it,, untill then you better stay clear of me with them.


lmao i would love to see you try and break a 33in. over priced rod over my head... if u guys dont want your arrows broke then simply dont shoot. I dont shoot much 3D i shoot feild and some fita and i have guys break my x10 protours all the time. I know they cost waaaaaayyyy more then your 3d shafts. I dont get mad im also not happy about it either. So what if you have to buy a new dz arrows a year? woop dee doo no big deal.... Its not like your presious 3d arrows are that expencive. Just remember the arrow companies make new arrows every day. Just so every one knows that i do buy all of my own equipment and nothing is given to me. happy shoot all


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## Skeeterbait

Shooter rotation, what goes around comes around. 
Score keepers Fans the score cards out face down and have shooters pick the rotation before the first arrow flys and maintain it thoughout the course. 

Slaping arrows, torn fletching, busted nocks and a few broken shafts happen in this game.


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## MAXXIS31

I don't shoot any fancy tips but I do brake lots of arrows shooting 3D. If you put an arrow X there is a good chance it will get hit. I have had plenty broke as well. We normally pull arrows after every shot if we are under 25 yards. It is part of the game, not near as bad as breaking your own in your back yard which I do about every time I try to shoot a group under 30.


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## Daniel Boone

Bowjoe1972 said:


> Shooting a indoor 3D and one guy in our group was using Comp points nock busters the pin point looking tip well anyway this guy busted 3 of the others guys arrows the guy who's arrows got busted told him either shoot first or next time you shoot one of my arrows Im gonna break all your arrows Now I told the guy to leave cuz I aint putting up with his attitude I dont have a problem with them..Now how do you all fell about anyone else using these tips for 3d are they cool with you or do you feel it's disrespectiful (as the other guy claimed ) ????


Keep your arrows out of the 12 ring and they wont get broke. Broke arrows are part of the game. 
DB


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## 3-d buster x4

if your gonna cry over a busted arrow STAY HOME !!!! this stuff happens at every damn shoot .. ( thats the nature of the game ) its gonna happen sooner or later.. what happend to just going and having fun ? if your that damn worried about your arrow getting busted up then put it in the a** or leg !! no one will hit it there <--------{{{{{{{ :icon_salut:


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## hockeyref

I get upset over losing a $4 golf ball! You think I won't be upset over losing a $15-$20 arrow? Especially considering that I have to put some work into the arrow to get it to where it deserves a place in my quiver? Yes, accidental damage happens but are the rules forcing you into a position where you may need to to trash an arrow (yours or someone else's) to make the highest possible score on that target? Do they really want blocking a ring and destroying a fellow competitors equipment to be part of the strategy.

THAT IMHO IS BS!

How about a REAL risk reward? Put several of the "extra value" rings all by their lonesome in the 5 point area ... one spot per archer - only arrow can be shot at each spot so you cannot aim off a nock if someone misses.... you get he bonus 12, 13, 14, or whatever if you make the shot and you get 5 if you miss it. Yes, put it on the @$$ so that you have to obviously be shooting at it. Even number the so you have to "call your shot"..... No crazier or dumber than putting microscopic x-rings in the main scoring area.


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## bhtr3d

It's part of the fun of the game. I have not hear anyone ever on any range whine, that they had their arrow torn up by someone.....I have ALWAYS heard...GREAT SHOT..and the fist thump....


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## VeroShooter

Have to agree. If you shoot 3d and complain about arrows getting trashed pick a different sport


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## 2K6S2K

Hoytboy2 said:


> Its simple. Rotate the group. If you are in the X ring then expect some messed up shafts. Who ever cries then hand them a pacifier and a hanky and tell them too bad its part of the game.


Thats the spirit!
I shoot all black arrows for 2 reasons. Ill be honest, the first reason is so i dont give anyone anything to aim at. Second reason is, if they hit it, i know it probably wasnt on purpose. Its a shoot what you bring sport, if you cry about getting a dozen arrow trashed a year, go back to shoot 5 spots. Ive shot 6 ASA events so far this year, and Im 9 arrows down. But i had a BLAST!


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## Jame

Those points were made for reasons. One of the reasons is because arrow Manufactureres started producing pin bushings. Pin bushings kick you out alot farther than your traditional unibushing. Nock buster points help on the amount of kick out you have. Archers spend a fortune going to tournaments and to hit a pin bushing right out of the gate for a 5 sure does put a dampner on your day. So if a person can use a certain type of point to help reduce the amount of kick out then IM all for it.

In my opinion if people dont like nock buster points being used then pin typ bushings should be against the rules when there are a group of people shooting at the same particular spot or we should be allowed to call the top 12 because there isnt anymore room to shoot at the lower 12 or 14.
Just my 2 cents.
Jame


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## asa1485

Very well said Jame. Can not have your cake and eat it too.


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## markb317

nock buster points are not any different than shooting Saunders screw ins, people can trash arrows using any points made, if the arrow is in the higher scoring ring then there is nothing wrong with shooting at it as an aiming point.You should not be shooting 3-d if you are worried about getting your arrows hit.......


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## golfingguy27

I say it is all part of the game. I am mainly a field archery guy, and am just getting into trying some 3D on the side. I actually kind of had to laugh at this thread. Try field archery some time. Depending on the target, you can have 4 people each shoot 4 arrows at one dot, and no, we don't get upset when one of our arrows gets busted up. If you are worried about your arrows, shoot pin nocks. Granted, field archery arrows are smaller diameter and harder to get a solid hit on, but considering in a round each archer shoots 112 arrows, and there are 4 people in a group, I see at least 9,000 arrows fly each season, and I don't think I've seen more than 2 or 3 arrows destroyed by being hit. Just my two cents...


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## LCA

If they are legal shoot them, if you are worried about getting a arrow busted don't shoot 3D.


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## stevecim

has anyone done any serious testing with a hooter shooter to see if the tips do help with kick outs, the photos I've seen online always show the nock busters passing through the shaft which is different to hitting nock pins? and there are a lot of myths in archery 
has for the OP the guy shooting nock busters should have been happy to shoot first, nice clean target to shoot at


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## dgmeadows

Can't believe this thread is still going... 

These points did save me twice this weekend. I hit the pin nock on a XXX.. pin point was bent, but my arrow was only about 1 inch from the arrow I struck - one 10, one 12. With the rounder points, I have been kicked several inches off line, with the shaft at such an odd angle that the shaft was in danger of being sideswiped.

On both hits this time, the pin nock had a little nick, my point had a slight bend at the tip, so both arrows were still shootable.


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## mikemow6T9

:crybaby2:


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## redwzrd1

im getting some for my next set up. if you don't want your arrows hit stay in your back yard, shooting one arrow at a time. when every body is shooting at a 2 inch circle someone's arrows are getting hit.


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## Kstigall

*
OLD thread!*


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## devinhal

I think that is part of the game. A league or local tournament is still a competition to some degree. I shoot in some tight groups where a couple glance outs will cost you the tournament, so I have no problem shooting tips that will help with glance outs. Just the same, I want to protect my arrows and will use pin bushings. It's part of what makes 3D so much fun. Until there are restrictions on arrow components, its all fare. If you don't want to worry about any broken arrows, then I think you might be happier shooting indoor paper instead.


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## Freeman33

Its the cost of playing the game. I have never felt anyone was trying to blow arrows up on purpose. Unless a few buddies were shooting our local range by ourselves. Anytime it happens at a shoot it is always followed by a hey Im sorry man. Which is good enough for me. To put it another way at the classic I had a young girl bust up one of my arrows during the team shoot. What kind ass would say something to a young person or anybody trying to shoot at the same spot. The Lancaster trailer has tons of equipment to fix accidents. We could shoot laser beams and score electronically what fun would that be.


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## Bow Rider

Personally, If I were to destroy someone else's arrow, I would give them one of mine. It might be useless to them, but it's the gesture. If they can't use it, they can mount it on the wall for a conversation piece... "that time some guy split my arrow" sorta story.


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## Archerbruce

Kstigall said:


> *
> OLD thread!*


Its even older now !


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## carlosii

Archerbruce said:


> Its even older now !


So are we...old that is.


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## Kstigall

Kstigall said:


> *
> OLD thread!*





Archerbruce said:


> Its even older now !





carlosii said:


> So are we...old that is.


Moby Dick was a freaking minnow when this thread started..........


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## Padgett

This old thread makes me want to bash one of kstigalls nocks right off the arrow!!!!!


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## Kstigall

Padgett said:


> This old thread makes me want to bash one of kstigalls nocks right off the arrow!!!!!


Bring it on! But don't get upset if you can't find the dark vanes, nock and bushing to aim at. :mg:


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## Padgett

Gotta love it!!!


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## Supermag1

Kstigall said:


> Bring it on! But don't get upset if you can't find the dark vanes, nock and bushing to aim at. :mg:


I had a guy say that to me one time and the very next target the light was just right and bam, there goes his nock lol


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## carlosii

Kstigall said:


> Moby Dick was a freaking minnow when this thread started..........


and Adam and Eve were still running around nekkid.


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## Kstigall

Supermag1 said:


> I had a guy say that to me one time and the very next target the light was just right and bam, there goes his nock lol


As it should be. If it's a real competition no one wants to hit someone's nock. It's hard on the score card! Now if it's a local shoot and my buddies nock is in the centr of the 12 ring I might shoot at it.......... OK, I definitely will shoot at it.

Until this past year I had been REAL lucky when it came to dropping points due to hitting nocks. This year in 3 consecutive ASA tournaments I went from hitting a 12 to scoring 5, 5, and an 8 after hitting. It was a combination of bad luck and not great shots because I certainly wasn't aiming at the nocks!


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