# Mathews Drenalin vs PSE X-fore Ballistics Gel



## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

New video is a must a see! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6LzlgNfHtQ

Head 2 Head test!

30" draw
70 lbs
350 grain arrow - set to ibo specs.

Shot into ballitics gel by Vyse! www.vyse.com


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Wow..That's pretty nasty there.:darkbeer:


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

*Thanks for that info. Pretty cool!!!*


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*I cant wait for the Mathews guys to jump in*

Oh wait a minute, I resemble that remark 

I bet you my Switchback would plow through that stuff 

Thanks for the video, pretty cool even though I dont think they are comparing apples to apples...:darkbeer: 

My Vulcan would have a better chance than the Dren...Its a closer match up as far as specs go on the bow


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## CoppertoneSPF15 (Mar 14, 2006)

No doubt the X-Force can zing those arrows. Would be cool to see that same match up with the Synergy, Iron Mace, Allegiance, Black Mamba, etc... 

_That_ would be fun to watch.


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## Shawangunk (May 30, 2005)

:first: Catch us if you can...:wink:


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## Archery-Addiction (Nov 1, 2005)

They did not tell us everything about the arrow set up. They could easily used two different arrow set ups and had those results. Speed does not mean KE!


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## NY.Smasher (Jan 23, 2007)

Unfortunetly for pse, I shoot at whitetales, not jello:wink: Impressive demo, but I'll take the accurracey of the dren over the velocity of the (unstable looking) pse!!!:darkbeer:


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

NY.Smasher said:


> Unfortunetly for pse, I shoot at whitetales, not jello:wink: Impressive demo, but I'll take the accurracey of the dren over the velocity of the (unstable looking) pse!!!:darkbeer:


unstable looking PSE ? they have a really similar amount of reflex in the riser...
have you shot the x-force to see what the accuracy is like? if not you might want to hold off on the negative comments 'til you have some experience with the bow.....in my opinion :wink:


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

I was told they did the test a fair as possible. using the same arrow for the two bows. and a rumor has it this was just a test because the are working on a side by side comparision with a few major bows to prove this one is the best overall. just wait it should get interesting


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2007)

I wonder if they used a new block of gel for each shot?


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## DeerslayinSOB (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow!! Is all I can say. I would like to see the prestige go up against that bow, and that would be at 29" max.


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## BUCKSTER (Jan 20, 2003)

That was interesting, but why did the PSE shot up ward toward the top of the ballistic gel.....which appears as thought the arrow shot form the PSE didn't going as much mass as the Drenalin...which in the video clearly shows was more center shot into the gel?

To be really scientific about the whole process....a hooter shooter and arrow and bows shot 3 times with the footage would, give us more proof and reality as of which bow has better KE.....

It was cool of PSE to even attempt to do a test like that...but why did they pick just the Drealin....is that the only bow they see as competition? casue I'm thinking Bowtech and Hoyt would think other wise..as would Martin and Oneida, and Darton......

I did like the looks of the PSE bow....thoguth


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

How much does this gel costs?


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

I'm not really that surprised. When you take in to account that the PSE has a longer power stroke (i.e. lower brace height) and is 30 fps faster than the Drenalin at IBO specs, why wouldn't it out penetrate the Drenalin??

On another note though, anyone notice that when they decided to show how much "better" it penetrated at 60 lb. that they opened the blades up on the broadhead? And judging from the added shine of the head when it was set at 70#, I think the blades may have been open on that shot as well. Not only that, but the original shot froom the 60 lb. PSE barely made it through, yet the second one blasted clean through in to the target. Hmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

BUCKSTER said:


> That was interesting, but why did the PSE shot up ward toward the top of the ballistic gel.....which appears as thought the arrow shot form the PSE didn't going as much mass as the Drenalin...which in the video clearly shows was more center shot into the gel?
> 
> To be really scientific about the whole process....a hooter shooter and arrow and bows shot 3 times with the footage would, give us more proof and reality as of which bow has better KE.....
> 
> ...


\
they most likley will test other bows as well, and I am sure it will be under tighter testing tolerances. this footage was just a test to see how bow and balistic gel work together.


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## CY67 (Dec 19, 2004)

I'm sure Mathews is shaking in their shoes right now from all of the sales they'll lose to PSE


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

BUCKSTER said:


> That was interesting, but why did the PSE shot up ward toward the top of the ballistic gel.....which appears as thought the arrow shot form the PSE didn't going as much mass as the Drenalin...which in the video clearly shows was more center shot into the gel?
> 
> To be really scientific about the whole process....a hooter shooter and arrow and bows shot 3 times with the footage would, give us more proof and reality as of which bow has better KE.....
> 
> ...


the 2nd shot (60#) was lower..probably shooter error....i know i have those...hooter shooter would be cool to see how it goes


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## CBH (Feb 12, 2007)

Cool Video. Now if they just would have gotten their bows to their delears at the same time that everyone else did, they may have outsold Matthews, Hoyts, etc..


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## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

the limbs on that x-force are crazy! It made me cringe just looking at them at full draw! I guess they are pretty close in comparison to the guardian, but man, the bend in those things are nuts!


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## Archer 117 (Dec 5, 2006)

BUCKSTER said:


> That was interesting, but why did the PSE shot up ward toward the top of the ballistic gel.....which appears as thought the arrow shot form the PSE didn't going as much mass as the Drenalin...which in the video clearly shows was more center shot into the gel?


Actually at an angle it would have to go through more gel than if it went straight through....


Awesome though.

and who said speed doesn't kill?


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## BUCKSTER (Jan 20, 2003)

Archer 117 said:


> Actually at an angle it would have to go through more gel than if it went straight through....
> 
> 
> Awesome though.
> ...


That's what I'm saying. (set aside all the bad grammar and misspelling..LOL)

The first pse arrow hat was shot went through at the top of the gel....which could parlay into less resistance..look at the footage.....less resistance would appear as a pass through...but in reality it was not an apple to apple comparison....that's all.....


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## machinegun74 (Jul 24, 2005)

Id say the PSE is about as fun to shoot as a Black Max 2 with the Turbo Cam. So why dont they put them up against each other. Crap to shoot speed bow versus Crap to shoot speed bow.:darkbeer: 

Sorry, I just hate shooting the speed bows:wink:


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## weldorj81 (Dec 5, 2006)

the new pse is pretty bad ass but whats the point? if a bow that shoots 300 feet per second will kill anything walking and is accurate as hell then why the race for more and more speed? does speed serve any advantage other than bragging rights?

oh btw the archery industry tucked their tails the day mr. shepley returned :shade: pse rocks!!!


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*Quiet?*

I was actually surprised how quiet the PSE was. Not interested in a bow like that (ATA, brace, draw cycle), but it was impressively quiet. The way my mere 60# Champion blew arrows through deer this year, I wouldn't worry about the Drenalin, though.


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## cannonvalleykil (Jan 3, 2007)

The X-Force is claiming 350 fps The Dren is 320 fps. Perhaps they shoud try a more apples to apples comparison. I bet the results would have been different if they were shooting a Black Max


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## BigBuck Man (Feb 23, 2007)

There is no Matthews that shoots 350 fps or even close. The angle doesn't matter on that gel. It is perfectly uniform. Thats the point. 
It looks pretty impressive to me.


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## beretta16 (Nov 22, 2006)

Maybe they should get a bow with a similar ibo if they're looking to prove something, until then I'll stick with Bowtech or Elite..


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## Drivin Nails (Dec 21, 2006)

That is impressive but speed isn't everything. 325 or 350 I would still get what I want and not what shoots faster. Although I think that it could persuade people a bit. I would still choose the Drenny. It's about the big picture not the big numbers.


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## cannonvalleykil (Jan 3, 2007)

BigBuck Man said:


> There is no Matthews that shoots 350 fps or even close. The angle doesn't matter on that gel. It is perfectly uniform. Thats the point.
> It looks pretty impressive to me.


Black Max 2 with a turbo cam would get you close


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## machinegun74 (Jul 24, 2005)

BigBuck Man said:


> There is no Matthews that shoots 350 fps or even close. The angle doesn't matter on that gel. It is perfectly uniform. Thats the point.
> It looks pretty impressive to me.


Black Max 2 with the Turbo Cam (50% Letoff) at IBO will, but I think the discontinued the Turbo Cam. It would run an honest 345-350:darkbeer:


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## cannonvalleykil (Jan 3, 2007)

machinegun74 said:


> Black Max 2 with the Turbo Cam (50% Letoff) at IBO will, but I think the discontinued the Turbo Cam. It would run an honest 345-350:darkbeer:


Its still available in there 07' catalog


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Drivin Nails said:


> That is impressive but speed isn't everything. 325 or 350 I would still get what I want and not what shoots faster. Although I think that it could persuade people a bit. I would still choose the Drenny. It's about the big picture not the big numbers.


Exactly why I shoot the Diablo. 8.25" BH and similar real world speed. 
It is about the best shooter, isn't it.

I can not wait to at least try out the X-Force though.
Reports are that it is a very shootable bow.


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## Archer 117 (Dec 5, 2006)

BUCKSTER said:


> That's what I'm saying. (set aside all the bad grammar and misspelling..LOL)
> 
> The first pse arrow hat was shot went through at the top of the gel....which could parlay into less resistance..look at the footage.....less resistance would appear as a pass through...but in reality it was not an apple to apple comparison....that's all.....


It's gonna be the same resistance regardless of the place it went through the gel. The gel is the same density throughout. I dont understand how you could say less resistance?? It went through more gel of the same density and got a pass through. 

But I agree on the fact it wasn't apples to apples.


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## BUCKSTER (Jan 20, 2003)

Archer 117 said:


> It's gonna be the same resistance regardless of the place it went through the gel. The gel is the same density throughout. I dont understand how you could say less resistance?? It went through more gel of the same density and got a pass through.
> 
> But I agree on the fact it wasn't apples to apples.


What I'm referring to is personal experience...follow me...I have a 3d target a McKenzie and if I shoot (which I have) at the top of the target I get less resistance then if I shot toward the middle...

doesn't really matter as we agree that it's not apples to apples...but just a thought I have from personal experience.... Plus we really don't know if the arrow actual passed through as we could have some editing going on..but who cares.....:wink: 

At the very least it made me and few other's look at a PSE when maybe I wouldn't have:tongue:


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## bow4life (Oct 4, 2004)

When I back limb bolts out on any bow I don't point them at my face while I'm doing it.


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## machinegun74 (Jul 24, 2005)

Archer 117 said:


> It's gonna be the same resistance regardless of the place it went through the gel. The gel is the same density throughout. I dont understand how you could say less resistance?? It went through more gel of the same density and got a pass through.
> 
> But I agree on the fact it wasn't apples to apples.



I think weight and gravity would cause more resistance the further down the block, not that it matters. I do give kudos to PSE for using youtube to promote their products. Id say that the only innovation Im seeing.:darkbeer:

ETA Id like to see the Drenalin shot into the gelatin after its already had a hole in it. I think that the preexisting cavity would increase the give. Just like shooting bullets into it, the same block with the same charge and bullet always penetrate deeper if its shot a second time.


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## HerdControlSpec (Jan 12, 2007)

Orayx,
Thanks for the video, Ii enjoyed it. If you do it again put the Synergy or Envy in the test.


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## gjarcher (Oct 26, 2006)

Broadhead was a pass through for both bows...Principle of Sufficiency is at work here; if it passes through the animal...wassa matta?

I doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Faster is Better for the same level of accuracy...<not shown>. If velocity and penetration were the only consideration, why wasn't a Weatherby .300 mag included in the test. I'm not saying this as a joke. A friend of mine is a ranch manager and guide that will not allow archery hunts because he feels better weapons have been devoloped to deliver humane kills....like the Weatherby .300 mag.

Now if APA's Black Momba X1, which shoots 11 fps faster than the X-Force with 70% cams, were included, would there be so much excitement about APA beating PSE and Mathews? ...???? Comments anyone?

The test was interesting and informative, but not unexpected...can't say the same for some of the posts.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

machinegun74 said:


> Id say the PSE is about as fun to shoot as a Black Max 2 with the Turbo Cam. So why dont they put them up against each other. Crap to shoot speed bow versus Crap to shoot speed bow.:darkbeer:
> 
> Sorry, I just hate shooting the speed bows:wink:


 I think your opinion will change when you shoot this one...:darkbeer: 

Not even close to the black max in terms of feel...  

I personally like the black max.. Thing is a great shooting speed bow as well... just has a lot more reaction in it after the shot...

Cheers
Tim


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Everyone knows penetration can be controlled by arrow tune also. Where both bows shooting bullet holes?

Also, the father down in the gel, the more dense it will be by the compression of the weight of the gel.

What the gel? 

All I'm trying to say if someone wants to skew test results, it's not that hard, but if it was an independent tester with no agenda, then .... :thumb:


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## MrSinister (Jan 23, 2003)

I will stick with my MR95 Monster but if my ol buds at PSE want to send me one of those I can assure them I would be happy to shoot it till the string wears out. That said when I would never have thought of buying a short bow with a low brace height ever. I just know if they made it they probably did it right.


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

BUCKSTER said:


> That was interesting, but why did the PSE shot up ward toward the top of the ballistic gel.....which appears as thought the arrow shot form the PSE didn't going as much mass as the Drenalin...which in the video clearly shows was more center shot into the gel?
> 
> To be really scientific about the whole process....a hooter shooter and arrow and bows shot 3 times with the footage would, give us more proof and reality as of which bow has better KE.....
> 
> ...


Splitting hairs aren't we? Stay tuned, and who shoots through a hooter shooter anyway, cheap way of testing? I think the last line of the video says it all!


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

CoppertoneSPF15 said:


> No doubt the X-Force can zing those arrows. Would be cool to see that same match up with the Synergy, Iron Mace, Allegiance, Black Mamba, etc...
> 
> _That_ would be fun to watch.



Who are these bow companies? Unknows don't need publicity! Last line says it all! Shoot one for yourself, not only shoots fast but smooth.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2007)

gjarcher said:


> Now if APA's Black Momba X1, which shoots 11 fps faster than the X-Force with 70% cams, were included, would there be so much excitement about APA beating PSE and Mathews? ...???? Comments anyone?
> 
> The test was interesting and informative, but not unexpected...can't say the same for some of the posts.


I thought the APA X1 was 352IBO and the PSE 350IBO? 
I agree that would be a better comparison.
Also if the first shot was the dren then the others fallow wouldnt the consistancy be comprimised a little.


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

L-train said:


> I thought the APA X1 was 352IBO and the PSE 350IBO?
> I agree that would be a better comparison.
> Also if the first shot was the dren then the others fallow wouldnt the consistancy be comprimised a little.


 Apa X1 shoots 353 while the x2 is 340

Both bows have the Venom twin cams and no neither the x1 or 2 are 11 fps ..

Pse,s x force is 342 at 75 percent and 350 at 65 percent.


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## Shawangunk (May 30, 2005)

> I just know if they made it they probably did it right.


:thumb: :zip:


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## chief razor (Apr 29, 2006)

That makes sense to me. If the bows are shooting the same arrow then the bow with the faster speed, or the one that projects more energy into the arrow would provide the greatest KE.


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## MonzaRacer (Jun 11, 2006)

*OK here is how you can scew the results*

All they had to do was make sure the gel was colder for the Mathews test. Balistics gell has a temperature coefficient also. Softer as it gets hotter thicker as it get colder.
I saw a balistics test while on a jury and the big test was penetration and the problem was the "guilty" gun test was done with the ballistic gel hotter, we asked for more testing and got it and the "guilty" gun wasnt the one. Then as more evidence came along we found out the defendant was innocent as his gun couldnt have done the deed and he was 3800 miles away.
Anyway its reall easy to fudge that test and I laugh everytime I see mythbusters using the stuff so liberally. At least no one is trying to convict a person of a felony. 
good luck if you believe it and you need to make sure they are using the same points, not using a roughed up arrow, too many variable in that test.
AND i have seen a 60 lb Parker Buck Hunter blow through an 1800 lb bull that had been hit by car and was getting dangerous.
Lee


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## CoppertoneSPF15 (Mar 14, 2006)

Oryx said:


> Who are these bow companies? Unknows don't need publicity! Last line says it all! Shoot one for yourself, not only shoots fast but smooth.


Bowtech makes the Allegiance

Elite makes the Synergy

APA makes the Black Mamba

High Country makes the Iron Mace


I wouldn't classify any of these companies as "unknowns" and they all build mighty fine bows that are quality, fast and very likely comparably smooth.


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## floxy (Jan 9, 2007)

Keepin it real in Tucson!!

That's a pretty cool video...


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## Coug09 (Feb 4, 2007)

flinginairos said:


> the limbs on that x-force are crazy! It made me cringe just looking at them at full draw! I guess they are pretty close in comparison to the guardian, but man, the bend in those things are nuts!


they are bent at such a sharp angle it isnt funny, i forsee limb issues especially after a couple years on the same bow. I have said this from the beginning


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## Grape_Ape (Feb 10, 2007)

NY.Smasher said:


> Unfortunetly for pse, I shoot at whitetales, not jello:wink: Impressive demo, but I'll take the accurracey of the dren over the velocity of the (unstable looking) pse!!!:darkbeer:


Ditto


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## BBT Outfitters (May 14, 2006)

Oryx said:


> Who are these bow companies? Unknows don't need publicity! Last line says it all! Shoot one for yourself, not only shoots fast but smooth.


Unknowns? I have heard of all of them. It seem as if you don't want to talk if it's a fair deal. I could do a test with my bow against my little boys mini Genesis, I bet mine would have more KE! I'm not real concerned with speed, if I hit a deer at 280, it's going down just the same as if I hit it at 340. I'm sure the PSE is a great bow, I just don't think it is any better than the ones you call unknowns.:wink:


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

cannonvalleykil said:


> Black Max 2 with a turbo cam would get you close


340 is still 10 fps slower any way to me this is just a another Bs session ..Hey Sage ! How,s it going ? How was the Shoot?


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## MHansel (Jan 8, 2005)

Interesting, but I'd like to know if everything was exactly the same:secret: but both would kill a deer:wink:


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

MonzaRacer said:


> All they had to do was make sure the gel was colder for the Mathews test. Balistics gell has a temperature coefficient also. Softer as it gets hotter thicker as it get colder.
> I saw a balistics test while on a jury and the big test was penetration and the problem was the "guilty" gun test was done with the ballistic gel hotter, we asked for more testing and got it and the "guilty" gun wasnt the one. Then as more evidence came along we found out the defendant was innocent as his gun couldnt have done the deed and he was 3800 miles away.
> Anyway its reall easy to fudge that test and I laugh everytime I see mythbusters using the stuff so liberally. At least no one is trying to convict a person of a felony.
> good luck if you believe it and you need to make sure they are using the same points, not using a roughed up arrow, too many variable in that test.
> ...


Test it for yoursefl! Clearly the video that was shot was done at the same time. Well what if the gel was warmer and the Mathews still didn't make it through? The lighting seems to be exactly the same, but maybe you'll see a more official test soon?


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## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

How do you compare a test of bows one with an IBO of 350 and another with an IBO of 320. Sorry guys, for a test, it is almost crazy not to have info on Draw Weigh, DL, specs of the bow, arrow weight etc. I am not sure how one can call this a valid comparison for any two bows, nothing was shown besides the draw weight of the 2nd shot with the X-Force. There are a lot of unknowns in that test!:wink:


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Jeff K in IL said:


> nothing was shown besides the draw weight of the 2nd shot with the X-Force. :


They say both bows are IBO spec. 70#s, 5gpi, etc.
Different IBO Speed rating, so not apples to apples.
It is obviously just a fun video in prep for a marketing campaign.


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## Smokegrub (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm convinced! The next time I am in the hunt for trophy gel you can rest assured the PSE will be my choice in bows! : )

My second bow is an old PSE Firestorm Lite which is why I bought a Switchback! However, I have no allegiance to any particular bow company thus I will shoot the new PSE if one happens to be available nearby. If it is an improvement over my Swichback, I will get one. Until then, the Switchback has a home in my house.

By the way, you PSE fans, could the cams for the new Firestorm be used to replace those on my old Firestorm?


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Smokegrub said:


> By the way, you PSE fans, could the cams for the new Firestorm be used to replace those on my old Firestorm?


Not unless your old limbs were split in 2. :wink:


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## joshuahodges (Dec 29, 2003)

If you keep the parameters the same is that not the same test as shooting the two bows through a chrono? Why are these guys so surprised by the outcome?
You would get the same results as any of hoyts, bowtech, Mathews, etc...Flagship hunting bow. Even the PSE hunting bow won't penetrate as good as their speed bow :mg: 
The test was a waist of money if you ask me.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

joshuahodges said:


> If you keep the parameters the same is that not the same test as shooting the two bows through a chrono? Why are these guys so surprised by the outcome?
> You would get the same results as any of hoyts, bowtech, Mathews, etc...Flagship hunting bow. Even the PSE hunting bow won't penetrate as good as their speed bow :mg:
> The test was a waist of money if you ask me.


I would venture to say that this is one of there new new flagship *hunting *bows.. :darkbeer: 

Cheers
Tim


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## milo605 (Feb 3, 2007)

Did anyone happen to notice which bow was quieter?


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## jakes10mm (Feb 29, 2004)

L-train said:


> I wonder if they used a new block of gel for each shot?


Only after shooting the Drenaline...cause there was an arrow stuck in it...LOL


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## Green River (May 13, 2006)

I think someone should give them the old X ring test instead.:wink: 

Mathews and others already have a 350 fps bow, is PSE just now figureing out how to make one too?


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

Green River said:


> I think someone should give them the old X ring test instead.:wink:
> 
> Mathews and others already have a 350 fps bow, is PSE just now figureing out how to make one too?




One more time..Mathews fastest bows is only 340 fps..with turbo cam at 50 percent let off..They have never made any thing close to 350..


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

Yes the PSE X Force will penetrate deper into any media, simply because it is shooting a lot faster speed. It rates at something like 350 with a 350 grain arrow. Naturally a faster bow will out penetrate a slower speed given all variables are the same. Simply put you can't knock the Mathews, given it's perfromance I would say it is right in line with any other bow that has the same IBO specs. It just not fair to say one bow is better than the other when it comes to penetration when bow is 20+ feet per second faster. I don't understand why everyone wants to say the tests are skewed or there is some consipracy theory, simple the faster bow will generate more KE and it will always out penetrate the slower bow, end of story. 

Mathews and PSE both make a great product and I can't fault either company.


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## plottman (Nov 15, 2003)

If I could only get a deaf deer to stand 3 feet away from me, deadly still with no obstructions between the shot, where accuracy and quietness would not be an issue, then I would shoot the fastest bow I could find. Until then I will take accurate, silent, and dependable


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## Caribou92 (Feb 25, 2007)

weldorj81 said:


> the new pse is pretty bad ass but whats the point? if a bow that shoots 300 feet per second will kill anything walking and is accurate as hell then why the race for more and more speed? does speed serve any advantage other than bragging rights?
> 
> oh btw the archery industry tucked their tails the day mr. shepley returned :shade: pse rocks!!!


Why the quest for speed? Simple answer is BONE CRUSHING ENERGY! (You 3D only shooters can go to the next comment. Your speed quest is for the advantage of flatter shooting, more tolerance for yardage judgement) Yes a 300 fps bow will kill most critters, as will a 50lb recurve.. if the shot is placed properly! All comments from people who have shot the Xforce is that it stable and quiet, as are most of the slower bows, so assume a shooter is able to group either about the same. However, what if the animal jumps the string or your shot is off just a bit? The more down range energy you can carry, the better your chance of making a fatal hit, even if in the shoulderblade.

I shoot a 402gr arrow @ 27" draw, 62 lb. draw hunting set-up. With that combination, the best arrow speed I could get with any brand bow was in the sub 285fps range, which translates to 72.5 foot/pounds of Kinetic Energy (read Ke as "pentration potential"). I am told by my local PSE rep (the most honest, no BS guy I know) that with my arrow and draw length, that the XForce will be delivering about 325 fps at 60lb. draw. That means I will have a Ke delivery of 94.3 foot/pounds! Thats *30% more delivered energy!*

Looking at the Drenalin (substitute whatever brand name you want here) and IBO specs of 30"draw, 350grain arrow at *70lbs.achieving 320fps, the Ke of the setup, if you chose to hunt with it, would only be 79.6 foot/pounds! My shorter draw, less poundage XForce would still be delivering 18.5% more energy!

That is the reason I will be purchasing the XForce. Am hoping PSE will also show us some controlled tests comparisons of various brands of down range energies too, as some of those light, fast arrows have poor penetration potential after 30 yards!

Oh...Oryx! Mine are on the wall, I just want film of the next one! can you handle that? :wink:*


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

Caribou92 said:


> Why the quest for speed? Simple answer is BONE CRUSHING ENERGY! (You 3D only shooters can go to the next comment. Your speed quest is for the advantage of flatter shooting, more tolerance for yardage judgement) Yes a 300 fps bow will kill most critters, as will a 50lb recurve.. if the shot is placed properly! All comments from people who have shot the Xforce is that it stable and quiet, as are most of the slower bows, so assume a shooter is able to group either about the same. However, what if the animal jumps the string or your shot is off just a bit? The more down range energy you can carry, the better your chance of making a fatal hit, even if in the shoulderblade.
> 
> I shoot a 402gr arrow @ 27" draw, 62 lb. draw hunting set-up. With that combination, the best arrow speed I could get with any brand bow was in the sub 285fps range, which translates to 72.5 foot/pounds of Kinetic Energy (read Ke as "pentration potential"). I am told by my local PSE rep (the most honest, no BS guy I know) that with my arrow and draw length, that the XForce will be delivering about 325 fps at 60lb. draw. That means I will have a Ke delivery of 94.3 foot/pounds! Thats *30% more delivered energy!*
> 
> ...


*


I'll film it for sure, as long as it's a PSE X-Force and not the Whisper CRAP, your shooting now!:tongue:*


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## TTH (May 8, 2006)

WOWWWW! I gotta have one of those X-Forces. That is a short armed guy's dream bow.


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## switchbakkr (May 10, 2005)

It's definitely not apples to apples. Let's see, 320 IBO vs. 350 IBO. It is a cool video but I don't think that it shows anything. Try it again with the Black Max 2.


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## 3-D Junkie (Sep 13, 2005)

Oryx said:


> Who are these bow companies? Unknows don't need publicity! Last line says it all! Shoot one for yourself, not only shoots fast but smooth.


 Thats a great video, but you have to understand that most of the people on AT are not the "average" archery consumer. Your test was great but not an apples to apples comparison. The drenalin is not designed as a "speed bow".
Have you shot the Synergy? That would be apples to apples. Along with the black mamba, iron mace, allegiance, and maybe the old Bowtech Black Knight.
A guy I used to shoot with had a 345 FPS Black Knight that blew my mind.
Hoyt, Mathews and Bowtech are selling tons of bows that are not "speed bows". Can you guess why? It's bacause of smoothness, reliability, forgiveness, and many other factors that make a shootable product. If PSE is intending to take some market share by producing a speed bow and advertising it like crazy, they should reconsider. Most archers are much more informed than in past years and they know speed is not everything. I'm not saying it's not an important factor to consumers, I'm just saying that todays shooter will not be sold on speed or KE alone.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

3-D Junkie said:


> Most archers are much more informed than in past years and they know speed is not everything. I'm not saying it's not an important factor to consumers


PSE had all the other bases covered.



> I'm just saying that todays shooter will not be sold on speed or KE alone.


HAHA. Yes they will. PSE had no flagship speed bow for speed freaks to even consider.. Now they do.


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

*Test was Stupid*



Jeff K in IL said:


> How do you compare a test of bows one with an IBO of 350 and another with an IBO of 320. Sorry guys, for a test, it is almost crazy not to have info on Draw Weigh, DL, specs of the bow, arrow weight etc. I am not sure how one can call this a valid comparison for any two bows, nothing was shown besides the draw weight of the 2nd shot with the X-Force. There are a lot of unknowns in that test!:wink:


If Petite Boy wanted to show how bad arse his bow is he should have tested his x fart against Black Night G2 which does 350 ..But no hes got too use a bow that is 30 fps slower..WOW Pse has won me over .NOT..


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## ruchak (Apr 14, 2006)

Who cares?


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## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

The reactions to this video are priceless, and likely exactly what PSE hoped to generate. Concerning the overwhelming cries of "the test isn't apples to apples", I'll say I personally feel it IS apples to apples. Many of you are calling for this test to be performed using bows of identical IBO speeds. This would prove absolutly nothing, as the results would be identical, as well. 

What PSE chose to do was take one of this year's "must have" bows, one that is in the same pricing structure as the X-Force, and compare the two using a test media. The results speak for themselves. Would another fast-shooting bow accomplish the same thing? Of course, and I see no one denying this. 

Concerning the other outcries accusing PSE of manipulating the test, give me a break. I suppose you bought into OJ Simpson's defense, too? It's much, much, much more likely that the video you see is exactly what happened. If you don't believe it, take the advice at the end of the video. 

Prove us wrong.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

MOC said:


> The reactions to this video are priceless, and likely exactly what PSE hoped to generate. Concerning the overwhelming cries of "the test isn't apples to apples", I'll say I personally feel it IS apples to apples. Many of you are calling for this test to be performed using bows of identical IBO speeds. This would prove absolutly nothing, as the results would be identical, as well.
> 
> What PSE chose to do was take one of this year's "must have" bows, one that is in the same pricing structure as the X-Force, and compare the two using a test media. The results speak for themselves. Would another fast-shooting bow accomplish the same thing? Of course, and I see no one denying this.
> 
> ...



very true..I doubt the BK was ever 345 IBO. I recall a test of the fastest in Peterson's Bowhunting and I think the BK came in it 336fps.


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## ratsodav (Jul 26, 2006)

*I Dont have the x but i do have a velocity*

Yesterday my brother inlaw and i did a test at a local archery shop. He has an 05 switchback, I have a brand new(shot less than 20 shots) AR Velocity. His switchy at 72 lbs with a 384 grain arrow was shooting at 293 fps. my velocity with a 513 grain arrow was 255 fps at 70 lbs. The penetration on his arrows was deeper from 20 yds and he had less arrow drop as well as his bow being less hand shocky even with a lighter arrow. My bow was 1" less draw, the AR is at 28, the switchy at 29". Now realize that these stats are exteremely comparable with 1" less draw. 
All of these things being said, The AR generates 74.09ft/lbs of Kinetic energy, while the switchback generates 73.22 ft/lbs. of kinetic energy at the current settings. Thes are both Hunting bows and the difference in KE is nearly inconsequential. He did not want to shoot the heavy arrows out of his bow and his arrows were too short for the AR( no dropaway.) Thats why there was no direct comparison test. Both of the bows were good shooters, I am biased toward neither bow as I just like to try new things. I wanted to try the velocity because of its looks and the fact that it is advertised as a speed bow.
Didnt mean to hijack the thread, but i did want you to know of another side by side test. And I am not flaming either bow company these bow are both awesome hunting machines, quality built and built to stand the test of time.


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## MR.B (Jan 14, 2006)

ive shot the x force,and it doesnt even compare to the drenalin,the pse isnt even close to be as comfortable as the mathews,im not a fan of mathews bows eithier but these 2 bows shouldnt even be compared to one another,the x force was the 2nd worst feeling bow that i shot at the show,hand shock is terrible,and the draw is as choppy as a black mamba.jmo


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

MR.B said:


> ive shot the x force,and it doesnt even compare to the drenalin,the pse isnt even close to be as comfortable as the mathews,im not a fan of mathews bows eithier but these 2 bows shouldnt even be compared to one another,the x force was the 2nd worst feeling bow that i shot at the show,hand shock is terrible,and the draw is as choppy as a black mamba.jmo


everyone i've heard from says the opposite...that's why there are so many opinions and truly there is not one "perfect" bow...like a previous post said they were comparing THe "gotta have" bow from another company with their own curent product...


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## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

All I know is that these reactions, and that video, mean I'm buying an x-force.


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## robertb (Jun 16, 2006)

sagecreek said:


> Everyone knows penetration can be controlled by arrow tune also. Where both bows shooting bullet holes?
> 
> Also, the father down in the gel, the more dense it will be by the compression of the weight of the gel.
> 
> ...


More importantly the penetration can be controlled by the amount of Gel you are trying to go through. The block used in this video was round. If the first shot was dead center it would have the most material to travel through. Being that the camera is off to the side of the block, we don't know where the shots were really located in the block of gel. In order for this to be a "more fair" comparison the block would have to be rectangular in shape.


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## plottman (Nov 15, 2003)

MOC said:


> All I know is that these reactions, and that video, mean I'm buying an x-force.


what if you shoot it and hate it? you are doing to spend several hundred dollars because people who you don't know had a reaction to a video on the net? how about just giving that money to charity and keeping the bow you have if you have that much to spread around


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## BigBuck Man (Feb 23, 2007)

Mathews has never made a 350 fps IBO bow.


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## BigBuck Man (Feb 23, 2007)

You can't be serious. This bow feels great! The only way you could even say that is if you were on the Mathews payroll. 
Let's get real. Speed means more energy, more penetration, more range and more room for error on judging distance. 
I've never lost an animal because I felt "hand shock"! I have lost them because of poor penetration and because I misjudged them. If not I'd shoot a 200 fps bow. They feel great!


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

3-D Junkie said:


> Thats a great video, but you have to understand that most of the people on AT are not the "average" archery consumer. Your test was great but not an apples to apples comparison. The drenalin is not designed as a "speed bow".
> Have you shot the Synergy? That would be apples to apples. Along with the black mamba, iron mace, allegiance, and maybe the old Bowtech Black Knight.
> A guy I used to shoot with had a 345 FPS Black Knight that blew my mind.
> Hoyt, Mathews and Bowtech are selling tons of bows that are not "speed bows". Can you guess why? It's bacause of smoothness, reliability, forgiveness, and many other factors that make a shootable product. If PSE is intending to take some market share by producing a speed bow and advertising it like crazy, they should reconsider. Most archers are much more informed than in past years and they know speed is not everything. I'm not saying it's not an important factor to consumers, I'm just saying that todays shooter will not be sold on speed or KE alone.



This just shows how little you want to know about the bow! Step away from Hoyt for a minute and see how smooth, reliable, and forgiving the xforce is, and speed is a factor!:thumbs_up


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

1DX said:


> If Petite Boy wanted to show how bad arse his bow is he should have tested his x fart against Black Night G2 which does 350 ..But no hes got too use a bow that is 30 fps slower..WOW Pse has won me over .NOT..


Pete himself I'm sure at this point would say,"BRING IT ON!" but not a direct quote!


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

MOC said:


> The reactions to this video are priceless, and likely exactly what PSE hoped to generate. Concerning the overwhelming cries of "the test isn't apples to apples", I'll say I personally feel it IS apples to apples. Many of you are calling for this test to be performed using bows of identical IBO speeds. This would prove absolutly nothing, as the results would be identical, as well.
> 
> What PSE chose to do was take one of this year's "must have" bows, one that is in the same pricing structure as the X-Force, and compare the two using a test media. The results speak for themselves. Would another fast-shooting bow accomplish the same thing? Of course, and I see no one denying this.
> 
> ...



WELL SAID MY FRIEND! For the rest of you step up and bring your bow, the Xforce isn't a myth, it's here waiting for those of you that doubt.


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

Archer 117 said:


> It's gonna be the same resistance regardless of the place it went through the gel. The gel is the same density throughout. I dont understand how you could say less resistance?? It went through more gel of the same density and got a pass through.
> 
> But I agree on the fact it wasn't apples to apples.



Your right it "wasn't apples to apples", the xforce will turn the competition into apple sauce!:shade:


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## pinshooter (Jun 11, 2004)

I don't care if it does penetrate more and is faster. Show me how well it shoots. I also noticed he struggled more drawing the 60lb x force than he did the 70lb drenalin.


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## TeamChaos (Feb 27, 2007)

The reason for comparing these two bows is because they both shoot very similar! I have shot the X-Force aginst the Blackmax and as far as speed the 60# X-Force spanked the 70# Blackmax But the key thing here is the black max is not easy to pull back especially in 20 degree weather, and on top of that the Blackmax is very hard to shoot! I have shot alot of bows and the X-Force is very impressive!


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## plottman (Nov 15, 2003)

does anyone realize that we are talking about shooting a bow into a stick of gel? is this what it has come down too?


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## DFA (Dec 30, 2002)

I've shot the X Force and it is smooth, shock free and very, very quiet. It is like many other speed bows as far as the draw force curve goes....very steep, but that is where the speed comes from. If you have not shot it it is unfair to make judgements on it until you have shot it yourself.
Nathan Brooks shot a 300 Vegas round with 24Xs with a X Force set at 66#s. I would consider that to demonstrate the accuracy the X Force is capable of. 
Stop your whining and go shoot one, but remember....
"This is your Daddy's Bow" 
DFA


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## kninetik (Dec 1, 2006)

I found the video to be a fun way to show what modern bows are capable of. Properly formulated ballistics gel is as close as man-made can get to replicating the density of muscles/tissues/etc.


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## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

plottman said:


> what if you shoot it and hate it? you are doing to spend several hundred dollars because people who you don't know had a reaction to a video on the net? how about just giving that money to charity and keeping the bow you have if you have that much to spread around


I always appreciate strangers offering their opinions on what I should purchase, and where I should put my money. Thanks for your thoughts.


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## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

plottman said:


> does anyone realize that we are talking about shooting a bow into a stick of gel? is this what it has come down too?


I'm unclear what you mean by asking "is this what is has come down to". I've been bowhunting and shooting for many years, and cannot recall a time where we weren't interested in comparing bows. Clearly this test is no different, and I can think of no reason NOT to use ballistic gel.

Apparently, PSE is very good at pushing buttons, and challenging people. I will be ordering this bow.


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## JShepley (Feb 13, 2005)

This has been a great thread and I am glad to see the fierce brand loyalty is still alive and well. 
Next week, all tests will be verified by an unbiased editor of one of the largest bowhunting magazines in the country. The undeniable results will prove that the X-Force is the greatest bow made for guys looking for high K.E. to kill animals...At 348-350 fps...you can use 1 pin out to 40 yards. How would you like that for treestand whitetails or 70 yard shots at elk in New Mexico? This bow is flat out awesome and you can say what you want but until you shoot it, try to reserve your opinions and be reasonable. The test wasn't rigged....we didn't change the temp on the gel, we weren't at Area 51 and no...that wasn't Jimmy Hoffa shooting the bow. You can bet the verified tests will be available soon. Don't buy anything until you try this bow.

If you aren't looking for something super-fast...try the other hot new bow from PSE, the Firestorm X. I promise it feels better, performs better, and is quieter than a Drenalin or other similar type bow.


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## MDOG (Dec 22, 2005)

JShepley said:


> This has been a great thread and I am glad to see the fierce brand loyalty is still alive and well.
> Next week, all tests will be verified by an unbiased editor of one of the largest bowhunting magazines in the country. The undeniable results will prove that the X-Force is the greatest bow made for guys looking for high K.E. to kill animals...At 348-350 fps...you can use 1 pin out to 40 yards. How would you like that for treestand whitetails or 70 yard shots at elk in New Mexico? This bow is flat out awesome and you can say what you want but until you shoot it, try to reserve your opinions and be reasonable. The test wasn't rigged....we didn't change the temp on the gel, we weren't at Area 51 and no...that wasn't Jimmy Hoffa shooting the bow. You can bet the verified tests will be available soon. Don't buy anything until you try this bow.
> 
> If you aren't looking for something super-fast...try the other hot new bow from PSE, the Firestorm X. I promise it feels better, performs better, and is quieter than a Drenalin or other similar type bow.


STILL FUNNY WHY PSE FACTORY CALL MATHEWS DEALERS TO FIND OUT HOW MUCH THEY SELL DRENALINS FOR!! THEY STILL CANT SELL X FORCE NO MATTER IF THEY ARE CHEAPER!:tongue:


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## Rooster Cogburn (Mar 5, 2005)

JShepley said:


> If you aren't looking for something super-fast...try the other hot new bow from PSE, the Firestorm X. I promise it feels better, performs better, and is quieter than a Drenalin or other similar type bow.



This is the second time you have posted this and you still have not explained how the Firestorm X 'performs better' than the Drenalin or simillar bows.

One pin out to 40 yards?


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

shoot them and you will see.

at 350fps one probably could use one pin-but I would prefer more.


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## DFA (Dec 30, 2002)

Why not save our judgements until you have a chance to shoot the new bows .... all of them and then comment on your thoughts. I have shot all the different manufacturer's latest bows and have been doing this for over 40 years  . Shoot the X Force then let's hear what you think. IMHO the X Force is the only bow with an IBO speed rating over 325 fps that is smooth to draw, extremely fast, dead quiet and without any kick or hand shock. Along with all that it is a shooter. As I've said before the draw force curve is steep and you will notice it as soon as you start the draw but that is where all the speed comes from. IMHO there is not another high performance bow out there that compares to the PSE X Force.
The Firestorm X is a fantastic bow, 29" axle to axle, 7 1/2" of brace height, overall weight of 3.7 lbs and 302 to 310 IBO speed rating. Those are the facts. IMHO the Firestorm X is as good as it gets for a "feel good bow". It's light, quick, dead quiet, accurate and forgiving, and absolutely no kick or vibration on the shot. 
I'm not here to bash any manufacturer or anyone else's opinion only to ask that you shoot the bows then make an honest evaluation. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Our minds are like parachutes....they work better when they are open
DFA


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## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

Well, I'm a Bowtech loyalist, and I don't think that is going to change anytime soon. I don't think there is a better bow out there than the Guardian, and I've shot almost all of them.

That being said, I honestly think PSE has a real winner with the X-Force. I will be buying one. The test done was as apples to apples as a reasonable person could expect. Sure you could nit pick small variances here and there (angle, temp, etc), but the bottom line this is a legit 350 fps bow and that is a good thing to me and a lot of other people.


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## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

At 350 fps, I can easily see a one-pin 40-yard set-up. As far as not being able to sell these, I suppose that poster is putting the proverbial cart before the horse. The earliest the X-Force will be available will be April 1, and April 15 is more likely. I called PSE yesterday to inquire. 

The customer service rep seemed a bit, um, tired of answering questions, so I asked her if I was perhaps not the first person to call about this bow. She laughed and said that all she'd been doing for a while now was talk to people about this bow. 

I'll go out on a limb and say they won't have problems selling them. I've shot nothing but Hoyt products for 18 years, and yet I'm almost certain I'll have an X-Force.


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## Mizzoukispot (Feb 4, 2006)

Matthews is just not a speed bow. They are set up to be "shock free" and "smooth". It is no secret that one can make a bow that smokes one. They really are not going after that market. And to an extent, the market has spoken as to what it wants.....matthews sells lots of bows. That being said, KE and flat trajectory is more important to me, OFF THE SHELF. I can make a bow quieter and make it so it has less vibration. No problem. And it will still smoke. Of course, I cant get rid of the fairly aggressive draw cycle of a fast bow, but I can live with that. Guys are always saying "what about drawing that type of bow back in cold weather"? To that I say this, " what about having a deer walk out on you at an unknown distance, say, 35 yards and you dont have time to range it?" or "what if your shot is not EXACTLY as it was intended and that extra ke from 20FPS makes the difference"? To each his own.


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## JShepley (Feb 13, 2005)

Hey MDog,
You must be a Matthews dealer if we called you about Drenalin pricing so I would be suspect to your comment about not being able to sell X-Force's. I respect your loyalist opinions, it just means you are a believer in the products you sell. If a customer walks into your store and asks for an X-Force, would you actually show him one? PSE does tons of market research about what bows are selling at what price. We call Hoyt dealers, Bowtech dealers, Parker dealers, Bear Jennings dealers etc...having good data is how we remain the largest manufacturer in the bow industry (I am sure that comment will spark some comments). All bows have some variance in selling price including ours and that is why we ask our retailers...it isn't some covert conspiracy as MDog may suspect. It is simply smart market research. For example, at the ATA show, our guys witnessed employees from the other 4 major manufacturers taking pictures with cell phones and small digital camras of every aspect of th X-Force...It's simply smart research and I don't blame them...they were all very nervous about the buzz the X-Force was getting at ATA. You might be surprised to know that most of the major manufacturers get together and trade wholesale price lists...it just makes it easier since we all know we are going to get them one way or the other.

I mentioned the Firestorm X (not X-Force) as an alternative to Mathews and other bows that claim smooth, quiet, and easy to draw. Give it a try before forming an opinion. Also, ask an open-minded dealer (maybe not MDog :wink: ) about PSE customer service compared to Mathews and Bowtech. We pride ourselves on having great after-the-sale service.

The X-Force isn't for everyone and for those, there's a Firestorm X. 

Last night, my son broke my "E" key off my keyboard so typing is a real chore...


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## Lance3.1R (Apr 6, 2005)

I shot the firestorm X I have to say i was impressed I liked it much more than any mathews ive ever shot.Soon they said at the pro shop that the x-force would be there and ill probably shoot it also.I actually started out with a pse thunderflight.so the likely hood that i would own another pse is very doubtful.I'll likely stick to my Jennings CK3.1R


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## timboj (Mar 9, 2004)

Now, if I can just get the deer in my area to inhale a bunch of that ballistic gelatin ........


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## Flintlock1776 (Aug 19, 2006)

*That will drive the Mathews folks nuts*

Anything similar testing a Hoyt?


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## Dean Lawter (Feb 15, 2005)

*X-count*

I would really like to see if the PSE pros can post some Vegas score like Hopikins and others posted with the Drenalin. I have not saw a Mathews claim stating the Dren. was the fastest.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

Dean Lawter said:


> I would really like to see if the PSE pros can post some Vegas score like Hopikins and others posted with the Drenalin. I have not saw a Mathews claim stating the Dren. was the fastest.


check this thread: http://forums.pse-archery.com/showthread.php?t=35522

there is a comment from Nathan Brooks


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## Dean Lawter (Feb 15, 2005)

*Food for thought*

Check this out: http://mathewsinc.com/index.asp?pag...eCategoryIDMain=4063&cboFileCategoryIDMain=-1 


I wonder why they did not shoot the Black Max 2 against the X?

I still say another reason PSE struggles now days is due to lack of dealer loyalty! They make a great product, but Pro Shops have a hard time dealing with BPS.


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## MDOG (Dec 22, 2005)

JShepley said:


> Hey MDog,
> You must be a Matthews dealer if we called you about Drenalin pricing so I would be suspect to your comment about not being able to sell X-Force's. I respect your loyalist opinions, it just means you are a believer in the products you sell. If a customer walks into your store and asks for an X-Force, would you actually show him one? PSE does tons of market research about what bows are selling at what price. We call Hoyt dealers, Bowtech dealers, Parker dealers, Bear Jennings dealers etc...having good data is how we remain the largest manufacturer in the bow industry (I am sure that comment will spark some comments). All bows have some variance in selling price including ours and that is why we ask our retailers...it isn't some covert conspiracy as MDog may suspect. It is simply smart market research. For example, at the ATA show, our guys witnessed employees from the other 4 major manufacturers taking pictures with cell phones and small digital camras of every aspect of th X-Force...It's simply smart research and I don't blame them...they were all very nervous about the buzz the X-Force was getting at ATA. You might be surprised to know that most of the major manufacturers get together and trade wholesale price lists...it just makes it easier since we all know we are going to get them one way or the other.
> 
> I mentioned the Firestorm X (not X-Force) as an alternative to Mathews and other bows that claim smooth, quiet, and easy to draw. Give it a try before forming an opinion. Also, ask an open-minded dealer (maybe not MDog :wink: ) about PSE customer service compared to Mathews and Bowtech. We pride ourselves on having great after-the-sale service.
> ...


 WOULD LOVE TO SHOW HIM A X-FORCE "JOHN" AND YES *WE ARE A PSE DEALER*!!!! AND NO HAVE NOT SEEN A *PSE REP IN OVER 1 YEAR *SO KIND OF HARD TO SELL PSE BOWS???? SO INSTEAD OF CALLING DEALERS ABOUT OTHER BOW LINES- WHY DO YOU TRY TO HELP THE DEALERS THAT CARRY YOUR PRODUCT FIRST ?? JUST MY OPINION


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Dean Lawter said:


> I would really like to see if the PSE pros can post some Vegas score


Rumor has it that Nathen Brooks shot a Vegas round with one......... 300 with 26 X's .....


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## Sagittarius1963 (Feb 22, 2007)

Does Pse Stand For Pretty *****ty Equipment??


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Sagittarius1963 said:


> Does Pse Stand For Pretty *****ty Equipment??


Wow. Your sixth post and you already earned your "Troll" Merit badge.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

Sagittarius1963 said:


> Does Pse Stand For Pretty *****ty Equipment??



no, but apparently Sagittarius1963 also means an idiot


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## Dean Lawter (Feb 15, 2005)

*Rumor*



Shaman said:


> Rumor has it that Nathen Brooks shot a Vegas round with one......... 300 with 26 X's .....


 Nobody cares about a rumor! Can the bow shoot or not? Tell me one place within 40 miles of Spartanburg SC I can shoot one? This great marketing Pete spoke of in post above, where is the dealers. Maybe BPS will let us order one for more dough than my dealer is selling Drenalin's. I say no thanks to PSE's new marketing strategy, I'd rather deal with Pro Shops for my archery needs.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

Dean Lawter said:


> Nobody cares about a rumor! Can the bow shoot or not? Tell me one place within 40 miles of Spartanburg SC I can shoot one? This great marketing Pete spoke of in post above, where is the dealers. Maybe BPS will let us order one for more dough than my dealer is selling Drenalin's. I say no thanks to PSE's new marketing strategy, I'd rather deal with Pro Shops for my archery needs.


go up and read the URL I posted. Nathan Brooks comments on the XForce.

why does everything have to be provided for you? You can research and develop your own opinions.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

JShepley said:


> If you aren't looking for something super-fast...try the other hot new bow from PSE, the Firestorm X. I promise it feels better, performs better, and is quieter than a Drenalin or other similar type bow.





Rooster Cogburn said:


> This is the second time you have posted this and you still have not explained how the Firestorm X 'performs better' than the Drenalin or simillar bows.QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Rooster... You'll know what he's talking about when you get a chance to shoot one.... Hard to answer these questions since most attributes noted in bows nowadays are purely subjective.... However, when taking into consideration the short ATA lightweight bows which seem to be so popular today... The Firestorm X certaintly has some noteable benefits particulalry regarding manuverabilty (29" ATA) mass weight (3.7 lbs) balance (Straight handle=smaller overall package and improved C/G) noise and buzz (virtually none) Grip (slim throated torque free).... Also a refined X-cam with infinte let-off and modular adjustment... And winners choice strings I do believe...
> ...


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## JShepley (Feb 13, 2005)

The X-Force is a Pro Series bow and will only be available through certain Pro Shops...you will not find one at BPS or Cabelas. They will be shipping in April and for the dealers that placed orders early, you'll be able to find them right away.

And for Sagitarius...thanks for the comment. It shows everyone your true colors and intelligence level. You sure are cool sitting behind your keyboard.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Shawangunk said:


> :first: Catch us if you can...:wink:


No, no, it is "catch us when you can".


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

switchbakkr said:


> It's definitely not apples to apples. Let's see, 320 IBO vs. 350 IBO. It is a cool video but I don't think that it shows anything. Try it again with the Black Max 2.


Who makes the Black max 2?


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

JShepley said:


> The X-Force is a Pro Series bow and will only be available through certain Pro Shops...you will not find one at BPS or Cabelas. They will be shipping in April and for the dealers that placed orders early, you'll be able to find them right away.
> 
> And for Sagitarius...thanks for the comment. It shows everyone your true colors and intelligence level. You sure are cool sitting behind your keyboard.


Yea, like my proshop in Spokane, Wa. Got one on the way!!


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> This is the second time you have posted this and you still have not explained how the Firestorm X 'performs better' than the Drenalin or simillar bows.
> 
> One pin out to 40 yards?


You would have to shoot one to find out. Smoother, quieter, I think they have the same brace height but would bet they are about the same spee. (even though mathews say 320 and pse says 310)


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Sagittarius1963 said:


> Does Pse Stand For Pretty *****ty Equipment??


Hey sag--what is it like to have a belly full of vinegar and water?


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Dean Lawter said:


> Nobody cares about a rumor! Can the bow shoot or not? Tell me one place within 40 miles of Spartanburg SC I can shoot one? This great marketing Pete spoke of in post above, where is the dealers. Maybe BPS will let us order one for more dough than my dealer is selling Drenalin's. I say no thanks to PSE's new marketing strategy, I'd rather deal with Pro Shops for my archery needs.


First off I don't think that was a post from Pete. Second the X-Force is a PROSHOP ONLY bow.


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

I still can't believe this thread is still going! Actually I think this is getting to be pretty awsome & entertaining. I give PSE a ton of credit, this has generated more interest in this bow than about any other way I could think of! I will have to try out the bow as soon as I can find one, sadly most of the PSE dealers in my area are too busy pushing Mathews & Hoyt. They all want you to buy one before they will get it the shop, heck they do this with the other bows made by Mathews & Hoyt too. They like to stock up on a couple of models & that is all they try to sell. 

Anyway here is a toast to one heck of a fast shooting bow, the X Force! :darkbeer:


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## Sagittarius1963 (Feb 22, 2007)

JavaMan said:


> no, but apparently Sagittarius1963 also means an idiot


You know what they say kid ,it takes one to know one,but you kids just save up your paper route money and one day you will afford a REAL BOW!LOL


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## Sagittarius1963 (Feb 22, 2007)

Shaman said:


> Wow. Your sixth post and you already earned your "Troll" Merit badge.



HAHAHA TROLL??? YOU HAVE OVER A THOUSAND POST'S SHAMAN!!MAYBE YOU SHOULD PLAY MORE OUTSIDE >


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## Flintlock1776 (Aug 19, 2006)

*The final factor*

Well, once we get to shoot my Hoyt thru a blob of Jello then this string of posts will stop.  Seems a lot of dialog is encouraged here about the whole video vs. other forums where if they don't like your take they shut the sting down.:zip:


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## stalk-and-drop (Mar 1, 2007)

*apples to apples...?*

What are the prices on these two bows? Maybe that's the comparison being made. You know, bang for the buck type of thing.

Regardless, I enjoy seeing anything being fired into a good size block of ballistic gel! Very cool video.


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## Sagittarius1963 (Feb 22, 2007)

Bonehead1 said:


> Hey sag--what is it like to have a belly full of vinegar and water?



Hey Bonerhead its better than having a bellyful of sour infant formula like you do!! Get back wit me when your weaned!LMAO


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## Dean Lawter (Feb 15, 2005)

*I Already Did*

I did read it! All I am saying is that while people are dogging out the Mathews Drenalin here, I have yet to really see anyone say this is a shooter except Nathan. I still do not know where I can see one of these bows, much less shoot one.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

Dean Lawter said:


> I did read it! All I am saying is that while people are dogging out the Mathews Drenalin here, I have yet to really see anyone say this is a shooter except Nathan. I still do not know where I can see one of these bows, much less shoot one.


it's probably because very few have actually had one set up for them to shoot. A dealer bow sample-that you shoot a handful of times-isn't the same as set up with your favorite sight, peep site, stabilizer, rest, etc..paper tuned..draw length adjusted..for you and you alone.

if that's what you want you'll probably have to buy one (as I have) or trust your common sense.

it has the BEST grip-this is an awesome factory grip-it has a shootable 6" brace height-recoil free-blazing speed. Sounds like an awesome combination to me:darkbeer:


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## VT_Archer (Jul 31, 2006)

*Mathews VS. PSE*

I wonder what would happen if both bows were shot off a Hooter Shooter. The video is impressive however, if you notice the mathews shot is center mass of a new gel block. The PSE shot seems to shoot throught the very top. Shoot the PSe center mass on a new piece of gel and as was the first shot from the Mathews. Would the results be the same? Things that make you say ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

VT_Archer said:


> Would the results be the same? Things that make you say ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


Watching Mythbusters one night they mentioned that Ballistics gel is designed to have the same consistency through the whole block. It is also tested for initial certification with a pellet gun, and previous wound channels will not effect subsequent shots unless you hit/cross the same channel again.

Someone please refute me if I am wrong, I'm just reporting what those guys said as part of their firearms testing.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Sagittarius1963 said:


> Hey Bonerhead its better than having a bellyful of sour infant formula like you do!! Get back wit me when your weaned!LMAO


I like mom's warm tit milk...It makes me happy!!!!


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## Sagittarius1963 (Feb 22, 2007)

Bonehead1 said:


> I like mom's warm tit milk...It makes me happy!!!!



LOLOLOLOLOLOL


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## DFA (Dec 30, 2002)

This should answer questions about the accuracy of the X Force :darkbeer: 

http://forums.pse-archery.com/showthread.php?t=35595

DFA


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

DFA said:


> This should answer questions about the accuracy of the X Force :darkbeer:
> 
> http://forums.pse-archery.com/showthread.php?t=35595
> 
> DFA


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## Dean Lawter (Feb 15, 2005)

*Yes*

Now that is impressive!


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## priest 80 (Jan 8, 2007)

*ATA...big suprise*

I went to ATA and was pleasantly suprised by the PSE line up...very smooth. I had the oppertunity to shoot the Drenalin and weather it was poor set-up or what have you, was left disappointed. The Firestorm X was much more stable and the grip can't be beat where the Drenlin just didn't measure up. By looking through the posts I was disappointed to see MDOG being both a Mathews and a PSE dealer being so negative...I am sure if you called a PSE rep. ;he too would be very impressed.If MDOG does't have any PSEs...he should get some


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## Doc Holliday (May 21, 2002)

I wouldn't pay any attention to all of the


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

*Stocking Dealer here.....*

*Need a X-Force???*

*Had a couple of guys on here inquiry about the X-Force. Their local shop did not really want to get them this bow. Rather.... tried to sell them bows they stock. Ticked them off of course.

Or more simply just do Not have a local dealer.

Anyway.... by that, if you need a X-Force from a true Pro Shop that would love to help you out..... e-mail us.*

*E-Mail us for our intro special for this incredible bow!!!*

*[email protected]*



:cocktail: :cocktail: :cocktail:


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## Caribou92 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Ballistic Gel comment*

Some have mentioned that the Drenalin was center shot (perhaps, are you sure it wasnt way left or right?) and the XForce was top shot. In the end, if it didnt hit outside container or air, it DOESN"T MATTER! Here is why:

The gel was a cylinder...so look at it from the shooter's perspective. It's a CIRCLE. It doesn't matter where on the circle you hit, there will be X amount (hehee...pun intended!) of gel behind that spot. And since ballistic gel is designed to be a consistent viscosity throughout an arrow shot at a clock face on the front of the gel... i.e., 12 0,clock high, 3 o'clock right, 6 o'clock low, 9 o'clock left, or dead nuts center, will all have the same resistance.

End of THAT controversy, I hope!


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

Caribou92 said:


> Some have mentioned that the Drenalin was center shot (perhaps, are you sure it wasnt way left or right?) and the XForce was top shot. In the end, if it didnt hit outside container or air, it DOESN"T MATTER! Here is why:
> 
> The gel was a cylinder...so look at it from the shooter's perspective. It's a CIRCLE. It doesn't matter where on the circle you hit, there will be X amount (hehee...pun intended!) of gel behind that spot. And since ballistic gel is designed to be a consistent viscosity throughout an arrow shot at a clock face on the front of the gel... i.e., 12 0,clock high, 3 o'clock right, 6 o'clock low, 9 o'clock left, or dead nuts center, will all have the same resistance.
> 
> End of THAT controversy, I hope!


Hopefully here soon all of that will be put to rest! A more official test may be conduct with a hooter shooter? Can't wait for the results! Any bets?


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Caribou92 said:


> Some have mentioned that the Drenalin was center shot (perhaps, are you sure it wasnt way left or right?) and the XForce was top shot. In the end, if it didnt hit outside container or air, it DOESN"T MATTER! Here is why:
> 
> The gel was a cylinder...so look at it from the shooter's perspective. It's a CIRCLE. It doesn't matter where on the circle you hit, there will be X amount (hehee...pun intended!) of gel behind that spot. And since ballistic gel is designed to be a consistent viscosity throughout an arrow shot at a clock face on the front of the gel... i.e., 12 0,clock high, 3 o'clock right, 6 o'clock low, 9 o'clock left, or dead nuts center, will all have the same resistance.
> 
> End of THAT controversy, I hope!


Mind posting that over on the PSE Forum?
Do you have a reference?
Some are claiming that the bottom has more weight on it, so it has more density than the top.

And for those that think previous shots weaken the gel.
Unless you cross wound channels, there is no issue:


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## jjf41380 (Mar 26, 2005)

I dont think that there are to many bow companies out there any more that make terribly crappy bows. I think its all just a matter of shooter preference anymore(and what someone is willing to pay for a bow). I have shot alot of bows made by alot of different manufacturers, and for me it all comes down to what I like and what shoots for good for me. And as far as pointing out how good the PROS shoot whatever bow it is that they may be shooting, They are PROS and will shoot good no matter what bow you put in their hands. Just one last note from me. When did the sport of archery become so political that people get so heated and upset when a simple comparison is done and some comments are made about a bow company? I shoot my bow because I enjoy it, I thought thats what it was all about.


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## Sagittarius1963 (Feb 22, 2007)

jjf41380 said:


> I dont think that there are to many bow companies out there any more that make terribly crappy bows. I think its all just a matter of shooter preference anymore(and what someone is willing to pay for a bow). I have shot alot of bows made by alot of different manufacturers, and for me it all comes down to what I like and what shoots for good for me. And as far as pointing out how good the PROS shoot whatever bow it is that they may be shooting, They are PROS and will shoot good no matter what bow you put in their hands. Just one last note from me. When did the sport of archery become so political that people get so heated and upset when a simple comparison is done and some comments are made about a bow company? I shoot my bow because I enjoy it, I thought thats what it was all about.


YA HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD!


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## ELKhuntR (Feb 5, 2006)

boughta bing!!!!

great post.

X-Force is an amazing bow. Wait till you see how quiet it is and shock free. 

nagging doubts WILL be put to rest. Trust me... and I shoot them all; Bowtech, Fred Bear, AR, Hoyt, PSE, etc. 

Give me a quality bow and watch out animals!!





jjf41380 said:


> I dont think that there are to many bow companies out there any more that make terribly crappy bows. I think its all just a matter of shooter preference anymore(and what someone is willing to pay for a bow). I have shot alot of bows made by alot of different manufacturers, and for me it all comes down to what I like and what shoots for good for me. And as far as pointing out how good the PROS shoot whatever bow it is that they may be shooting, They are PROS and will shoot good no matter what bow you put in their hands. Just one last note from me. When did the sport of archery become so political that people get so heated and upset when a simple comparison is done and some comments are made about a bow company? I shoot my bow because I enjoy it, I thought thats what it was all about.


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## EricO (Nov 24, 2004)

Shaman said:


> Watching Mythbusters one night they mentioned that Ballistics gel is designed to have the same consistency through the whole block. It is also tested for initial certification with a pellet gun, and previous wound channels will not effect subsequent shots unless you hit/cross the same channel again.
> 
> Someone please refute me if I am wrong, I'm just reporting what those guys said as part of their firearms testing.



This is off topic but... 

Those guys are crazy. They shot a 50 cal. into ballistic gel in a swimming pool one night to see how far bullets would travel in the water. They tested assorted high powered rifles and a muzzle loader. The freaky thing was that the muzzle loader go the most penetration out of any of it. 


Back on topic.

That test wasn't remotely scientific, but the results are still hard to refute. The X-force is just that much faster than the Drenalin, end of story.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Flintlock1776 said:


> Well, once we get to shoot my Hoyt thru a blob of Jello then this string of posts will stop.  Seems a lot of dialog is encouraged here about the whole video vs. other forums where if they don't like your take they shut the sting down.:zip:



Some of my best work has been babysitting you!


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## xxSPOTTSxx (Mar 4, 2007)

Another EXCELLENT BOW from PSE!
:darkbeer: Heres to another 35 yrs of excellence.
35 plus years of leading the way in archery technology OUTSTANDING Mr. Shepley.


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

*Check out.......*

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=4353106&posted=1#post4353106





:cocktail:


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