# Selfbows



## BowHunter6666

Sweet looking bows bro do they shoot just as fast as the big companys?


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## kegan

The shorty and hickroy don't (not like the deer would be able to tell the difference anyway), but the red oak shoots faster than a glass longbow, and makes half as much noise


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## LooMoo

Pretty!


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## kegan

And another one...


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## fip09

Those are sweet. Wanna make me one? :wink:


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## fip09

Kegan: Have you ever spent a lot of time on a bow and you think it will be great and you pull it back to test it and have it snap on you and all you can say is.. damn....? lol:tongue:


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## kegan

fip09 said:


> Kegan: Have you ever spent a lot of time on a bow and you think it will be great and you pull it back to test it and have it snap on you and all you can say is.. damn....? lol:tongue:


Sometimes- manely with boards. No matter how much I try- I can neevr get a board to work. Ever. But I still keep trying. But they would blow while I'm makin' it, so not as much work as a finished bow.

What kinda bow do you want? If it isn't too complicated then yeah.


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## fip09

kegan said:


> Sometimes- manely with boards. No matter how much I try- I can neevr get a board to work. Ever. But I still keep trying. But they would blow while I'm makin' it, so not as much work as a finished bow.
> 
> *What kinda bow do you want? If it isn't too complicated then yeah*.


One that would good on the wall.:wink: No you don't have to make me one, (I'm all out of cash) so maybe when I get my job i'll look you up.:darkbeer: Thanks anyways.


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## No.1 Hoyt

*wow*

nice bows. im currently working on a red oak board bow.( keagen you know because i pm'd you with a question) hopefully if i figure out how to post a picture ill put one on here. wanna make me one to?:wink:


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> nice bows. im currently working on a red oak board bow.( keagen you know because i pm'd you with a question) hopefully if i figure out how to post a picture ill put one on here. wanna make me one to?:wink:


what kind you want?


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## No.1 Hoyt

*serious?*

are you serious? how much would it cost?


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## No.1 Hoyt

*primitive archer*

i got a name on primitive archer its david w. i read your post about heat treated hickory it was cool


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## kegan

David, you have just met the nicest, most awsome people in the world. Pappy, Pat B, Justin, J.D. Duff, all of them. Ask any question and you will get a hundred perfect answers. These guys are the best! And thanks- that hickory is one of my favorites.

And I sent you a PM about the bow.


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## Mach12

cool lookin bow keep on makin them and you may have a business at it


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## Whitehair

Nice dude; Tiller looks spot-on on all of 'em...
Ive got another Hickory in the works myself; Have you tried backing your boards yet?

Shoot me a PM when you get a chance...


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> David, you have just met the nicest, most awsome people in the world. Pappy, Pat B, Justin, J.D. Duff, all of them. Ask any question and you will get a hundred perfect answers. These guys are the best! And thanks- that hickory is one of my favorites.
> 
> And I sent you a PM about the bow.


Kegan.. i would ask you to build be a bow... but idk about the shipping on those things! Ya know.. i would like to try shooting trad. bows.. but i would want quite the heavier draw weight!!


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Kegan.. i would ask you to build be a bow... but idk about the shipping on those things! Ya know.. i would like to try shooting trad. bows.. but i would want quite the heavier draw weight!!


What do you mean heavier draw weight? It is quite different shooting trad bows and compounds. Alot of times guys drop 20-30# in draw weight when switching to trad. Besides, a 60# longbow has enough force to knock over two bales of ctraw.


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> What do you mean heavier draw weight? It is quite different shooting trad bows and compounds. Alot of times guys drop 20-30# in draw weight when switching to trad. Besides, a 60# longbow has enough force to knock over two bales of ctraw.


Yea i know.. but honestly.. im a big guy and i have drawn on traditional bows... but im saying a strong enough bow to give me a Nice... CLEAN pass through on a deer! haha (im helpin make videos.. so when i shoot deer with the compound bow that will be done... i wanna try shooting a deer on camera with a traditional bow) haha 

but idk.. just a little heavier draw weight for me! U know what i mean?? I'm quite the stocky guy and an 80 lb. draw weight is no joke a piece of cake for me... i draw at 70 wayyyy to smooth.. I think the deer hate that!! 

I swear.. i kill myself sometimes! :dead:


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## kegan

A 55# selfbow will shoot straight through a deer. Actually, 45# will. It's not in the bow, but the BROADHEAD. Sharp, two balde cut on contact. A 60-65# selfbow can kill anything in North America. Includeing Kodiaks. Don't know if I would want to use 65# though. He might not like being shot at

Besides, no let off means that it is that wa all the way through. A trad shooter who shoots a 65# trad bow shooter can defiantely shoot a 75# compound or higher.

And finally, the power of the slefbow is in the stealth. You can barely hear 'em. The game doesn't get so spooked when you shoot.


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## Whitehair

Not that Im sayin' that this is a great (Heck, even good) idea, but; A lot of guys have killed a lot deer with sub-40 pound selfbows. Most Native Americans never shot over 40 Pounds; even at Elk/Moose/Etc. (It matters a lot less at 12 feet though...). Like Kegan said; its the broadhead that matters...

The selfbows I'll be carrying in the woods this year are [email protected] and [email protected]; I wouldnt hesitate to hunt any whitetail in NA with either...

Take Care All...


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## No.1 Hoyt

im makin a bow it will be in the 40 lb range most likely in the lower 40's 40-45 lbs. If i get good at it do you guys think I should hunt with my bow.


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## Bowhunter500

No.1 Hoyt said:


> im makin a bow it will be in the 40 lb range most likely in the lower 40's 40-45 lbs. If i get good at it do you guys think I should hunt with my bow.


Whatever u want man.. i really love my compound.. but i would sure like the challenge of using a trad. bow... so i might take it up sometime!


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## No.1 Hoyt

I love my Xtec and Ill never give up compounds but I would like to try hunting with my selfbow bow sometime


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## Bowhunter500

No.1 Hoyt said:


> I love my Xtec and Ill never give up compounds but I would like to try hunting with my selfbow bow sometime


No doubt.. i honestly would like to try a... crap.. whats it called... brainfart.. im typing as im thinking... ahh......................................................................................Crossbow! haha thats what it is... i would honestly like to try doin that sometime! just for a rush!! But i would also like to try selfbow sometime!


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## kegan

Never thought much of crossbows. Mainly because they were the "machine gun" of England. But to each their own- I'm just really picky.

Hunting with a selfbow is so much more different from hutnign with modern hunting implements. Suddenly it doesn't matter if you even see anyhting... just having a bow crafted by some one's personal skill takes the place of the need for taking game. And when you pull the string to your cheek and let the shaft fly, it is all on your skill- not tunign. Arrow spine matched to the bow... sometimes... is _it_. It lets you know that it was 100% you who sent the arrow into the heart of the deer. Suddenly you shoot closer. You begin to think and feel like the animals you are hunting.

It is amazing.


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Never thought much of crossbows. Mainly because they were the "machine gun" of England. But to each their own- I'm just really picky.
> 
> Hunting with a selfbow is so much more different from hutnign with modern hunting implements. Suddenly it doesn't matter if you even see anyhting... just having a bow crafted by some one's personal skill takes the place of the need for taking game. And when you pull the string to your cheek and let the shaft fly, it is all on your skill- not tunign. Arrow spine matched to the bow... sometimes... is _it_. It lets you know that it was 100% you who sent the arrow into the heart of the deer. Suddenly you shoot closer. You begin to think and feel like the animals you are hunting.
> 
> It is amazing.



Just wonderin.....

Have u ever thought of making a self-made crossbow?


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Just wonderin.....
> 
> Have u ever thought of making a self-made crossbow?


Made two of them- hence my dislike of them. They were ugly, inaccurate, and really loud. Hard to string and de-string. Just not as much fun


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## Hoyttboy

i've been making some self bows to i've made a 45 lbs. white ash, a 60 lbs. hickory, and two red oak boards i got at home-depot thay both shot realy good i shot clean through a doe last season. both my board bows are about 50 lbs. love your bows if you can send me some advice i would love it.


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> Made two of them- hence my dislike of them. They were ugly, inaccurate, and really loud. Hard to string and de-string. Just not as much fun


how did you tiller them?


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## kegan

Hoyttboy- If youever have any questions, just ask. I love tlaking about selfbows and would have not problem answering (to the bestof my ability) any questions you have, but oyu seen to have a good grip on what you're doing- congrats on the doe.

No. 1 Hoyt- I couldn't really tiller them. They had to be laminated from a board (I didn't want to waste cutting up a stave) and left them like a D-bow- the thickness is the sma though out, but the width tapers, giving it a good bend. But, being made of wood, not bamboo, horn, or artificial materials, couldn't take the extreme bend alot. Splintered and broke.


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## No.1 Hoyt

oo thats too bad. Im going to stick to normal bows. Has anyone made a sucessful self xbow.


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## kegan

I love the spped at which one can loose arrows outta a selfbow or even a trad bow (though it makes alot of noise when you try to shoot too fast). read the last few Primitive Archer magazines, they had an article on old crossbows. Pretty cool stuff (they had the history, lots of pictures, etc.)


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## mbuemi

Hey kegan i have a question, can you make me a longbow with 3/4" split limbs and a TEC riser


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## kegan

mbuemi said:


> Hey kegan i have a question, can you make me a longbow with 3/4" split limbs and a TEC riser


I think I'd have to figure out what those were before I tried to make a bow with them.


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## mbuemi

lol, its all the Hoyt style stuff. If you look at a Hoyt bow, the limbs are actually 2 seperate limbs on each end. Then the riser has an extra peice. I guess it woulda been funnier if you knew what they were


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## Bowhunter500

mbuemi said:


> lol, its all the Hoyt style stuff. If you look at a Hoyt bow, the limbs are actually 2 seperate limbs on each end. Then the riser has an extra peice. *I guess it woulda been funnier if you knew what they were *


Lol thats hilarious!


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## kegan

Ahh, I knew what the limbs were (not 100% sure though) and assumed the rest was just another one of those fancy ones. Funny thing is though wood deosn't behave like fiberglass. I don't get how a hole in the limbs would help though. Try shootig off your knuckle- quietest rest in the world.:wink:


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## mbuemi

Lol yeah i know, Was just curious what your response would be


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## CA_Rcher12

kegan said:


> Ahh, I knew what the limbs were (not 100% sure though) and assumed the rest was just another one of those fancy ones. Funny thing is though wood deosn't behave like fiberglass. I don't get how a hole in the limbs would help though. Try shootig off your knuckle- quietest rest in the world.:wink:


I guess a split limb=less vibration?? Doesn't look like a selling point to me.:wink: And a TEC riser looks like this.








Hoyt's got some weird stuff going on.


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## mbuemi

theres a reason behind all of Hoyt's designs. Do they work? Idk, but all i see on those FITA videos are Hoyts, with the occasional Matthews and one Bowtech, so they must be doing SOMETHING right.

The tec riser makes the riser structurally more sound, and reduces vibration. When you get vibrations from the shot, some of the vibration has to go through that loop around the side of the handle, instead of through the grip. That means less vibration in the grip which reduces torque, or at least the effects of torque.

As for the split limbs, early on a huge selling point was the fact that you do not get that crack at the limb bolt as you can on a traditional solid limb bow. The crack is a result of the limbs moving forward at high speeds which puts tension on the base of the limb around that bolt. With the split limbs, the area from one side of the left limb to one side of the right limb is much greater than just one standard limb, thus creating less of a stress point at a critical point such as the limb bolt. Also, since there is overall more limb area, including the air gap, there is more room for vibration to dissipate. 

And, if all else fails, it looks darn cool.


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## kegan

Ahh. But wood and fiberglass behave differently and if you put a big whole inthe middle of a wooden limb it will explode.


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## kegan

Well, here is another bow. A nice little hickory shorty. 52" long, roughly 53# at 22". Still needs heat treated and finnished, but it is a nice little bow.


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## trapshooter

thats a cool little bow kegan heres a pic of mine


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## trapshooter

dang I posted on my brothers profile again I need to take his stupid remember me off.


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## No.1 Hoyt

i want my next bow to be black walnut with a thin bamboo backing with a red oak riser. Purple or yellow heart would be cool but i heard its super hard to work


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## CA_Rcher12

kegan said:


> Well, here is another bow. A nice little hickory shorty. 52" long, roughly 53# at 22". Still needs heat treated and finnished, but it is a nice little bow.


Nice bow...should be great for a shortdraw archer.


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## kegan

CA- Your draw can change from bow to bow, once you learn how. Alot easier than trying to torque a bow past its maximum draw and blowing it up. Which means eevryone is a "short draw arcehr".


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## CA_Rcher12

good point. maybe.


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## mbuemi

So Kegan, do these self bows react in the same manner to dry firing? I guess they do correct? They do, however, have a higher tolerance to breaking from drying than compounds though right?


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## BowHunter6666

Im with BowHunter500 im pretty stocky too and since my Hoyt broke down ive been shooting an older 80lb Hoyt gonna get my PSE up and running so I can shoot 90lbs. Not that I feel im "Manly" but I figure if I can shoot the poundage why not? My 56 and 55lb stickbows are cake I want one in 70lbs.


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## Evinrude

kegan why dont you use a arm gard or a glove?


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## BowHunter6666

Evinrude im guessing its a primtive thing ive shot with bare fingers before and I dont use an arm guard unless I got bulky cloths on.


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## kegan

Funny thing about selfbows, is that if they are dry fired, it usually won't hurt the bow. Might force in set or start to mess it up for some of the faster or heavier bows, but no immediate or severe damage. I have had several go off with the arrow falling off the string. Simply cut the feather ot heck. No damage was done to the bow.

Bowhunter6666- I was referenceing no-let off weight to let-off weight. 

I don't use and armgaurd because I've got thick callouses on my shooting fingers and arm (yup- on my arm). It isn't so much a primitive thing, because I could make them. Just started with out and now I've got the callouses.


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## CA_Rcher12

I don't know about you but I hardly use my armguard. To me, needs depend on form.


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## kegan

CA_Rcher12 said:


> I don't know about you but I hardly use my armguard. To me, needs depend on form.


Not really, I have several bows that don't hit my arm, but my new hickory (the heat treated one) does. Hard. Just a different brace height.


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## CA_Rcher12

oh yeah...forgot about that factor.


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## kegan

Here are some of my points, they look good on a sourwood shoot flying frorm a selfbow. See if they can make some meat this fall. Cheap too- the blade stock cost me $6 for shipping. Primitive archers are such nice people


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## CA_Rcher12

I've thought about making those for the arrows I build. They hang from my ceiling. My dad might have access to metalworking tools at work so I'd like to see if he can were some steel for me.

If you look, I also have half a deer jaw, a dreamcatcher, a steel lizard silhoutte, and an owl claw hanging there.:tongue:

EDIT
sorry for the blurry pic, hah.


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## kegan

Tools? All I used was a dremel to score it, some duckbills and a vice to beak it, and a file to do the rest.


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## CA_Rcher12

well, I wanted them to have tapers so I could just glue them on. I might just add blades to target heads or something, though.  Or I could just do it the simple way and do it your way.:tongue:

Say, how do YOU tie them on, Kegan? I have always liked tapered points since I really suck at getting heads to stick on my arrows. I always end up losing points in my targets when I try it like that.


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## Bowhunter500

Ahh... im back...

What did i miss? Anything exciting?

I was on a cruise and ridin jetskis like all the time.. so update me on anything good that has happened?! 

Btw.. Kegan.. those blades look really sweet and sharp!!!!


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## CA_Rcher12

Bowhunter500 said:


> Ahh... im back...
> 
> What did i miss? Anything exciting?
> 
> I was on a cruise and ridin jetskis like all the time.. so update me on anything good that has happened?!
> 
> Btw.. Kegan.. those blades look really sweet and sharp!!!!


hmmm....nothing going on here. Just AT all day for the rest of us, hah.:embara:


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## kegan

CA- The trick is to use some glue, especially one that sticks both to the wood (or wahtever) and the metal. Elmers white glue will work... for a while. Epoxy is a better choice... hide glue is another choice... but you can always use normal hot melt point glues like Ferr-L-tite. After that you wrap the shaft as tightly as possible to hold the point in place while the glue sets.

Bowhunter- Thanks, suff is bandsaw balde material... INDUSTRIAL bandsaw blade material


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## CA_Rcher12

thanks, I'll try it without tapering the heads. I am out of shafts though so those are my main focus. Metal for heads should be easy to find around here. I have plenty of turkey feathers and Ferr-L-Tite, at least.


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## No.1 Hoyt

hey kegan im almost done with my selfbow. It is cool. it flies good at 20 yards. im not done but i coulnt resist to shoot it. im not pin point accurate but i can hit a pretty small target from 20 yards.


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> hey kegan im almost done with my selfbow. It is cool. it flies good at 20 yards. im not done but i coulnt resist to shoot it. im not pin point accurate but i can hit a pretty small target from 20 yards.


SOunds prett accurate to me. I still have troble hitting stuff at 20 yards. Actually, I have trouble _seeing_ out to 20 yards:zip:

Fun though, aren't they?


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## CA_Rcher12

Hah, I thought I was the only one who can't see...I can't wear my glasses when I shoot since the prescription is old, so I try to wear contacts whenever I shoot.


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## Bowhunter500

CA_Rcher12 said:


> Hah, I thought I was the only one who can't see...I can't wear my glasses when I shoot since the prescription is old, so I try to wear contacts whenever I shoot.


Haha that reminds me of my moms bf when he was deer hunting.. there was a deer in front of him and it was very cold out! Well he was breathin hard and then i heard an exhale and a snap! He fogged over his glasses and shot! And of course missed the deer... it was hilarious!


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## CA_Rcher12

that used to happen to me out on the course sometimes. My dad is a certified diver so he has a bunch of that anti-fog stuff lying around that I like using.


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> SOunds prett accurate to me. I still have troble hitting stuff at 20 yards. Actually, I have trouble _seeing_ out to 20 yards:zip:
> 
> Fun though, aren't they?



it great to shoot just as fun as my compound.

im just about to make the one fletch arrows you made a while back. the only problem is I have no material to tip it with.

i love bow and arrow building. almost done with mine just need my dads help to finish the handle.

my next bow after my brothers will be black walnut and i might put a walnut baccking if its not beyond my skill level


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> it great to shoot just as fun as my compound.
> 
> im just about to make the one fletch arrows you made a while back. the only problem is I have no material to tip it with.
> 
> i love bow and arrow building. almost done with mine just need my dads help to finish the handle.
> 
> my next bow after my brothers will be black walnut and i might put a walnut baccking if its not beyond my skill level


For tips, nothing is as cheap and easy as a 30-30, 30-06, or .38 (.357 special works I beleive). Just cut the neck off (for the 30-30 and 30-06) and slip the on. You can do tons of stuff with them.

Sounds good- remember to give us some pics!

Black walnut is a good wood, really good. You might want to try sinew as well, it requires less power tool usage, and you can get from 3Rivers if you don't have any. You can use Titebond II, and don't _need_ hide glue. It's great stuff!


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## Bowhunter500

CA_Rcher12 said:


> that used to happen to me out on the course sometimes. My dad is a certified diver so he has a bunch of that anti-fog stuff lying around that I like using.


Haha whatever works! :wink:


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## kegan

I'm havin' fun posting random pictures of selfbows, so here is my potential bow for this fall. Locust, about 53" long, and highly relfexed, as you can see.


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## tylerolsen12

sweet bows kegan i like them


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> Black walnut is a good wood, really good. You might want to try sinew as well, it requires less power tool usage, and you can get from 3Rivers if you don't have any. You can use Titebond II, and don't _need_ hide glue. It's great stuff!




i ment hickory backing


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## No.1 Hoyt

sinew would be nice il have to check it out


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## CA_Rcher12

kegan said:


> I'm havin' fun posting random pictures of selfbows, so here is my potential bow for this fall. Locust, about 53" long, and highly relfexed, as you can see.


It's coming along real nicely ...what do you use for strings?


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## kegan

CA_Rcher12 said:


> It's coming along real nicely ...what do you use for strings?


Right now, it's just a "board"- I have to wait for it to dry (and to perfect my short bow theory). For strings I usually use paracord because it's easy, but I have some rawhide strings, working on some milkweed strings (if I can find some), and when I have enough, sinew. But sinew get used alot, so I rarely have enough for all these bows.


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## kegan

Hey, does any one here know what an atlatl is?


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## CA_Rcher12

ah, the power of Google.


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## kegan

Yup- the good old "*************". All you big arm bruisers may like this- it's all about the muscle


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## Mach12

have you made anything with cain pole we have lots here there realy big and easyer to make than wood my opinion because i made a selfbow from wood i draw it and its got a creeking noise than snap.


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## kegan

Cane is best left as arrows, and was (and is) usually the choice for natives. Bamboo, however, is a good wood for bows, but usuaklly it is best to stick with wood- and there are alot of good ones that are common (hickory, elm, birch, walnut, locust, ash, maple, and Osage). I have been meaning to make a "build along" for making a simple hunting selfbow outta a tree or branch. Next week maybe.


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## CA_Rcher12

My first bow was one I made out of bamboo( maybe 10lb draw??) . Made that when I was ten. Good times.:wink:
I would not mind making another. I just gotta make sure my mom doesn't see me chopping down her bamboo plants out back.


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## tylerolsen12

kegan said:


> Cane is best left as arrows, and was (and is) usually the choice for natives. Bamboo, however, is a good wood for bows, but usuaklly it is best to stick with wood- and there are alot of good ones that are common (hickory, elm, birch, walnut, locust, ash, maple, and Osage). I have been meaning to make a "build along" for making a simple hunting selfbow outta a tree or branch. Next week maybe.


i would love to c this i want to mke a self bow


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## kegan

I am getting too many bows around here. Anybody want some?


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## Bowhunter500

Yup! You pay shipping?


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## CA_Rcher12

kegan said:


> I am getting too many bows around here. Anybody want some?


let's see 'em all. What are you asking for them...?


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## kegan

I don't want anything, just $20 for shipping (as I have no money). Let's see...(*pictured earlier)

1. The red oak* (55# @ 28", 72"- capable of longer draws)

2. The short sinew backed bow* (50# @ 27", 55")

3. Short Hickpry D* (55-60# @ 22", 52"- with arrow)

4. Red oak recurbe featured in "D bow build along" (40# @ 27", 60")

5. Unfinished/Untillered Hickory (attached) (up to 70# @ 27", 60")

Number 5 is pretty much a blank bow- you can finish it however you want. 3 and 4 don't have finishes on them, but some linseed or whatever would be fine. All can take a deer if any one is worried. I might have a few more though- just have to get trhough this mess (i have bows everywhere).


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## Bowhunter500

You have any at about #55 and 30 1/2 inches? lol

yes i know.. it was a joke.. i know compounds and selfbows are completely diff.. but i was just messin! :tongue:


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## tylerolsen12

good deal there kegan i will have to think about it


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## CA_Rcher12

Same here...I'm trying to get a summer job so we'll see in due time.


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> You have any at about #55 and 30 1/2 inches? lol
> 
> yes i know.. it was a joke.. i know compounds and selfbows are completely diff.. but i was just messin! :tongue:


Actually the red oak bow, being 6' long, can handle that kind of draw length (and it will go up slightly in poundage to about 60#). It would be more than capable of shooting at that length with no damage to the bow (tlonger it is, the farther it can be drawn).

I just want these bows to go to good homes. Figured since most of you guys had at least thought of going trad, might as well let you try it out without busting your bank! That, and i can barely move around my room with all these bows and staves... and I just finished another one for back up this season.


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## tylerolsen12

if we would get one of these how much would arrows for it be


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## kegan

archerykid12 said:


> if we would get one of these how much would arrows for it be


You could probabaly shoot your compound arrows from it (slefbows will shoot carbon, wood, and aluminum no prblem). Just get the arrows spined to the bow and it will shoot fine (or maybe a little lighter for best neasure). I have shot ome old carbons form selfbows (like the red oak) before with no prbelm. All will shoot them well. If you wanted some arrows that I made howveer, they would have to be made up with what I have, so about $10 for three.


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## CA_Rcher12

It works alot better to use feathers with aluminum. When I use arrows with vanes on any recurve they get messed up quick, quicker than when I use them with my compound(WB rest with all black bristles). I'm real sure it's a clearance thing.

but yeah, Kegan, I would love to get one...I just have a lot of other expenses I gotta take care of first -- 20 bucks is 20 bucks.:wink:


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## kegan

Yeah, i know what you mean. But the offer is permanent (unless someone round here wanted one). 

But on a similiar note, the newhuntign bow i made was built following my build along- and it is a sweet bow. Just to let you know it works well


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## kegan

Here is where those trade points ended up, and what I'll be slinging at deer, turkey, squirrels and such this fall.


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## No.1 Hoyt

nice arrows.

i would take you up on your offer but im geting a new fly rod. thats using all my money.

i like that d bow and the red oak


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## No.1 Hoyt

my times been preoccupied with flyfishing but im almost done with my bow so far its 42#@28" all i need to do is sand it do some shaping on the handle and paint it and finish it. it shouldnt take that long.

Hey kegan learn to make split bamboo fly rods. with all your arrow and bow making i bet you could. you could also get tons of money making fly rods :wink:


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> Hey, does any one here know what an atlatl is?


yes i do and i didnt need google. lol:wink:

i know some people in pennslyvannia (sp?) want an atlatl season i think


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## kegan

David- yup, read about them wanting an atlatl season a few years ago- but we have enough hectic stuff when it comes to game regulatiosn taht I hope it doesn't cause too much of a fuss. I still gotta send for a does tag.

Let's see some pics!! IT is great that your first bow turned out, how is it shooting? 

Well, like I said earlier the offer doesn't really expire.


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## No.1 Hoyt

im not quite finished i have another couple days of work but iwll post pics when its done


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## kegan

sweet. have you got it shooting yet?


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## No.1 Hoyt

yes, i shot it today. I shot a 2 inch group at 20 yards. Its a nice shooter.



i still think you should make fly rods and sell them for $1,500 a peice:wink:


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## kegan

Flyrods huh? Hmm... mayhave to consider that sometime:wink:.

Two inch group at twenty yards? Huh, I wish I could shoot that well!

Oh yeah, anyone who wants a bow should e-mail [email protected]. Legal reasons.


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> Flyrods huh? Hmm... mayhave to consider that sometime:wink:.
> 
> Two inch group at twenty yards? Huh, I wish I could shoot that well!
> 
> Oh yeah, anyone who wants a bow should e-mail [email protected]. Legal reasons.


yes you should make flyrods.


and about the group it wasnt exactly in the middle of the target and it was pure luck. i was just happy to hit the target and not miss and send an arrow skipping off the top of the target. that happened too


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## No.1 Hoyt

P.S. i would get a flyrod from you and i think PA got some trout streams. flyfishing for trout fishing rocks. i went yesterday.

bamboo flyrods are $1,800 and up usually


in my neighbor state missouri people can now atlatl fish. not sure about Illinois





legal reasons?


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## No.1 Hoyt

all i know about rod making is that you have to be able to flatten the nodes but you can probably already do that.


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## tylerolsen12

wat he means by legal reasons is kids under 18 arent supposed to sell things i guess


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## kegan

archerykid12 said:


> wat he means by legal reasons is kids under 18 arent supposed to sell things i guess


Well, sorta. Archerytalk can't be responsible and therefore can't permit trade without adult consent- so sned it through my folks, all prblems solved.

I might have to consider making fishing rods, but i don't do any fishing (not that i don't want to). Just get to plunk arrows at animals.

And here is a new bow I got finished, the mighty Penobscot bow, bow of the Penobscot warriors. Sends a very heavy arrow fast despite lower draw weight- the rpmitive compound if you will. Put in another way, a well built 60# Penobscot bow can shoot a 750 grain arrow at almost 200 fps. 

Whad-a-ya think of it?


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats so awesome. will you hunt with that this fall?


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## kegan

Maybe. It is definatley my new back-up, and if the situation calls for a short bow rather than a long one it will be this bow that i turn to. Shoots like a dream!


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## No.1 Hoyt

i bet its the best feeling to get a deer with a bow you made yourself.


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## kegan

It needn't be deer and you needn't get something. Just being in the woods with a bow you know you built chasing game in one of the simplest ways possible... there is no feeling like it. I have gone out with a fiberglass backed bows and was disspaointd when I didn't see anyhting, but there has yet to be a time when I go out with a selfbow in hand and quiver of primtive arrows and not felt some sort of satisfaction. It no longer becomes about taking game, but about being in the woods. About living with simple pleasures and passing time in a calm and spiritually fulfilling manner. It isn't easier, and it isn't harder... it's just different.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats nice kegan.

i put the stain on my bow today. it looks good, and a couple of days ago i was shooting my fluflu and the nock brock as i was shooting and theslapped my hard and the arrow sputtered off the shelf. it was too bad because it flew great and it was spined perfectly.


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## IGluIt4U

kegan said:


> It needn't be deer and you needn't get something. Just being in the woods with a bow you know you built chasing game in one of the simplest ways possible... there is no feeling like it. I have gone out with a fiberglass backed bows and was disspaointd when I didn't see anyhting, but there has yet to be a time when I go out with a selfbow in hand and quiver of primtive arrows and not felt some sort of satisfaction. It no longer becomes about taking game, but about being in the woods. About living with simple pleasures and passing time in a calm and spiritually fulfilling manner. It isn't easier, and it isn't harder... it's just different.


Very well spoken... :thumb:


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> thats nice kegan.
> 
> i put the stain on my bow today. it looks good, and a couple of days ago i was shooting my fluflu and the nock brock as i was shooting and theslapped my hard and the arrow sputtered off the shelf. it was too bad because it flew great and it was spined perfectly.


Don't fret! I just had one of my good hunting arrows (the blunt) break at the nock the other day. Simply put some glue in between the two peices and wrap it all up with trhead and glue. You can reinforce future nocks by wrapping trhead or sinew tightly below them and putting some glue on it.


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## Bowhunter500

Hey Kegan.. how does ur Penobscot bow shoot?? Like accuracy wise?


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## booTytRappEr

*Penobscot*

Kegan, I know this is a forum for youths but this self-bow thread caught my eye. All I have to say is I'm very impressed with your bowyer skills. It's really a pleasure to see a young man so involved in the past-time of primitive archery, especially of the native american nature. Nice bows..WOW! :thumbs_up

btw, I'd love to see a pic of your Penobscot bow in it's resting position.


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## kegan

Bowhunter- It shoots right where I want the handle is only about 1 3/8" wide (with wrapping) so the arrows don't have a problem getting by it. I really like it too, I am working on antoehr one outta another old bow that didn't shoot too well.

booTytRappEr- Thanks. I am fascinated by the old ways (fire by friction, stone tools, braintanning, etc.) and archery is one of my favorites. It's kinda funny, just a little over a year ago by bows were still just sticks.


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Bowhunter- It shoots right where I want the handle is only about 1 3/8" wide (with wrapping) so the arrows don't have a problem getting by it. I really like it too, I am working on antoehr one outta another old bow that didn't shoot too well.
> 
> booTytRappEr- Thanks. I am fascinated by the old ways (fire by friction, stone tools, braintanning, etc.) and archery is one of my favorites. It's kinda funny, just a little over a year ago by bows were still just sticks.


Thats cool.. That bow is sooo sweet lookin! I wouldnt mind havin one of them!!!! Nice Job Kegan!!!!


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## kegan

Thanks Bowhunter. It shoots as sweet as it looks. It wasn't even difficult to make- just tie to simple D bows together, worked like a charm:wink:


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## kegan

Well, here is a remake of an older bow I had- one of my first good ones. I turned a 70" sloppy deflexed bow into a snappy 66" recurve with a nice golden stain of wild walnuts and linseed oil. She is a sweetie


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## Ayyub

Those bows look very nice. I fully intend to create my own bow someday.


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## kegan

It is alot easier than everyone seems to think. Just a little reading and some hickory staves and you will have yourself a good bow. Which remins me...

I was talking with a friend recently about building bows. He thought it was just a past time or hobby, something to do when I was bored, until he realized that I can get a new bow whenever I need/want one, perfectly matched to whatever I want, and I don't have to spend alot of money. Keeping this in mind, I also pointed out he could keep his compound ofr competition and a back up if he had to use it for hunting. I think he liked that idea


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> It is alot easier than everyone seems to think. Just a little reading and some hickory staves and you will have yourself a good bow. Which remins me...
> 
> I was talking with a friend recently about building bows. He thought it was just a past time or hobby, something to do when I was bored, until he realized that I can get a new bow whenever I need/want one, perfectly matched to whatever I want, and I don't have to spend alot of money. Keeping this in mind, I also pointed out he could keep his compound ofr competition and a back up if he had to use it for hunting. I think he liked that idea


No doubt man.. b4 i die.. i would like to take a deer with a traditional bow! Just for craps and giggles! haha


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> No doubt man.. b4 i die.. i would like to take a deer with a traditional bow! Just for craps and giggles! haha


It is a wonderful, and not all that difficult, task to take game with a trad bow. Hey, if you have more than one deer tag....


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> It is a wonderful, and not all that difficult, task to take game with a trad bow. *Hey, if you have more than one deer tag*....


Haha thats kinda funny.... see here in Iowa.. you go to the store and buy ur tags! Im plannin on gettin possibly 6 this year.. 1 any-sex and 5 does! Gunna have some fun.. but sometime i will take one with a trad. bow!


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## kegan

I am so jealous. Getting a deer is like Christmas to me- a hie, good meat, sinew, bone, and eevrything else. It's like a primitive Walmart. 

But I got my bow sinewed, just got to let it dry and touch it up later... this is fun.


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> I am so jealous. Getting a deer is like Christmas to me- a hie, good meat, sinew, bone, and eevrything else. It's like a primitive Walmart.
> 
> But I got my bow sinewed, just got to let it dry and touch it up later... this is fun.


Heck yea man! That would suck to have to draw for a tag! You should make a trip to Iowa when u get older! WE can just stay in touch over this and i can take ya to some places with BIG deer!!! Heck.. you could prolly just stay with me or at a nearby hotel! It would be a blast man!!!!!


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Heck yea man! That would suck to have to draw for a tag! You should make a trip to Iowa when u get older! WE can just stay in touch over this and i can take ya to some places with BIG deer!!! Heck.. you could prolly just stay with me or at a nearby hotel! It would be a blast man!!!!!


Now that would be a blast! Hmmm... Iowa huh? Only ever heard good things about deer hunting there. Get a chance to see soe of your made shooting skills and you could have a hand at shooting a stick and string:wink:! Hmmm, chasing big whitetails... I think I'm drooling:tongue:!


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Now that would be a blast! Hmmm... Iowa huh? Only ever heard good things about deer hunting there. Get a chance to see soe of your made shooting skills and you could have a hand at shooting a stick and string:wink:! Hmmm, chasing big whitetails... I think I'm drooling:tongue:!


Haha no doubt man! I got a few places here! It would be a flippin blast!!!!! No joke man!! 

And its not chasing "big" whitetails....... it would be known as "CHASING CORNFED GIANTS"! We have 1 and a half months till season! WHOOP WHOOP!!!!


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## kegan

Sweet. I'm chompin' at the bit for season to open here. I need some meat!!

It's not archery, but it is in the same world as selfbows- friction fire, rubbing two sticks together to get fire. Finally got the hand drill going, here's the second coal I got.


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## CA_Rcher12

man last time I did that I was in 6th grade.


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## kegan

CA_Rcher12 said:


> man last time I did that I was in 6th grade.


What, the hand drill? I've been practicing for about a year now to get it going- but I always got the bow drill to fall back on


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## CA_Rcher12

kegan said:


> What, the hand drill? I've been practicing for about a year now to get it going- but I always got the bow drill to fall back on


Well, the bow drill is what I haven't touched since 6th grade. I'm real sure I my like lighters and flashlights, thank you very much. :wink:


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## Bowhunter500

CA_Rcher12 said:


> Well, the bow drill is what I haven't touched since 6th grade. *I'm real sure I my like lighters and flashlights, thank you very much.* :wink:


Im gunna agree with you!!

But Kegan.. its a good thing to know becuz when your out in the wild and somehow get lost.... u always have a back up! Huh? lol


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## kegan

It's not so much a back up to lighters and matches, but to the hand drill:wink:. I gave up matches and lighters.


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> It's not so much a back up to lighters and matches, but to the hand drill:wink:. *I gave up matches and lighters*.


Ouch!


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## Irishrobin

Man i would jump at a chance to get a deer with my slayer . i cant in Ireland its against the law.
How bad is that ?

We aren't even aloud fireworks . but we still get them from northern ireland its a different country. !!!
i hate the law in ireland 
I HATE THE LAW IN IRELAND


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Ouch!


First it was modern bows, then matches, soon cotton clothes will be replaced entirely with buck skin, stone tools and natural fiber cordage...

I have funwith all this.... and I am really, really cheap:wink:


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> First it was modern bows, then matches, soon cotton clothes will be replaced entirely with buck skin, stone tools and natural fiber cordage...
> 
> I have funwith all this.... and *I am really, really cheap*:wink:


NO CRAP! lol 

I cant live without my cotton clothing! I like my Holister and American Eagle Clothing!


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## CA_Rcher12

Irishrobin said:


> Man i would jump at a chance to get a deer with my slayer . i cant in Ireland its against the law.
> How bad is that ?
> 
> We aren't even aloud fireworks . but we still get them from northern ireland its a different country. !!!
> i hate the law in ireland
> I HATE THE LAW IN IRELAND


dang...looks like you have to take a trip east if you want to, huh?


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## Irishrobin

CA_Rcher12 said:


> dang...looks like you have to take a trip east if you want to, huh?


Got it in one


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> NO CRAP! lol
> 
> I cant live without my cotton clothing! I like my Holister and American Eagle Clothing!


Braint tan is awsome though... soft and really tough. Soft brown too, good earth tones.


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## CA_Rcher12

cotton clothing is best in Sunny San Diego...


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## kegan

CA_Rcher12 said:


> cotton clothing is best in Sunny San Diego...


loin cloth


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## CA_Rcher12

You should come by here wearing that...I would love to watch you get beat up. :chortle:

:jksign:


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## kegan

Tough guys wear pink... tough CAVEMAN wear loinclothes. 

My sinew bow is almost done... I really like it:tongue:. Once I finish it I'll get some pictures up. Should be in a few days, got to split a 40' hickory tree firswt though.


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## kegan

*She's Done!*

Here it is, the bow I've been wanting for a few weeks now. A 61" sinew backed D bow. Only about 55#, but smooth and strong enough to make it a pefect deer hunter. Gonna see If she can make some meat this fall!!!


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> Tough guys wear pink... tough CAVEMAN wear loinclothes.
> 
> My sinew bow is almost done... I really like it:tongue:. Once I finish it I'll get some pictures up. Should be in a few days, got to split a 40' hickory tree firswt though.


tough cavemen wear loin clothes. lol

i wouldnt want to see a caveman in one.

thats one cool bow i like it should be a good hunting bow.















so easy a caveman can do it that should be your new pharse even though all the stuff you do looks really hard.


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## No.1 Hoyt

here is my first selfbow. red oak 41# @28"


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## kegan

I love your bow man. Man, it took me over two dozen bows to get one that nice! And none of the stuff I do is hard, it is all rally simple and jsut takes a little practice (and sometimes experimentation). Like the hand drill. God I love spinning up a fire!

I'm gonna taker her out this fall and try her on some deer. She shoots better than bows of a similiar weight (and more quietly than my Penobscot) and I'm more accurate with it than any other. Gonna go try and make some meat!


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## kegan

The power of stone...

If any of you have flint-like rocks around your house, you should be overjoyed. We don't have any around here, so when i found a small piece of what seemed to be obsidian in our driveway, I immediately took it to my "work bench" and nocked a couple little flakes off. Sharp, and tough. Now, I hate shoes, so naturally the bottoms of my feet are as thick and tough as a good pair of moccasins. Well, I was getting tired having just moved about 400 lbs. of wood. Coming down over the small hill I went down the step and stepped right on one of the flakes:mg:! Well, the little flake, nothing more than a piece I knocked off, sliced right through the ball of my foot (the thickest part)for a good 1/2" or so- cleanly. I haven't been cut so surgically with a razor blade. If you got the rocks, please learn how to use them. I sure wish I had some more. 

Ouchy:wink:.


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## IGluIt4U

kegan said:


> The power of stone...
> 
> If any of you have flint-like rocks around your house, you should be overjoyed. We don't have any around here, so when i found a small piece of what seemed to be obsidian in our driveway, I immediately took it to my "work bench" and nocked a couple little flakes off. Sharp, and tough. Now, I hate shoes, so naturally the bottoms of my feet are as thick and tough as a good pair of moccasins. Well, I was getting tired having just moved about 400 lbs. of wood. Coming down over the small hill I went down the step and stepped right on one of the flakes:mg:! Well, the little flake, nothing more than a piece I knocked off, sliced right through the ball of my foot (the thickest part)for a good 1/2" or so- cleanly. I haven't been cut so surgically with a razor blade. If you got the rocks, please learn how to use them. I sure wish I had some more.
> 
> Ouchy:wink:.


Ok, inquiring minds want to know... did ya sew it back up with sinew??? :lol: :wink:

Hope ya heal fast man.. that stuff is sharp!! :nono: :wink:


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## kegan

IGluIt4U said:


> Ok, inquiring minds want to know... did ya sew it back up with sinew??? :lol: :wink:
> 
> Hope ya heal fast man.. that stuff is sharp!! :nono: :wink:


I would hae if i coulda got my needle through the skin! But I did use a little oak bark powder as a styptic:wink:. 

But I'm fine, a little sore when walking cross gravel, but whatever. GOtta get me some stone though, these little rocks really got me going!!!


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## No.1 Hoyt

my dad has a surplus of flint and chert. the chert is really cool its muti colored. it has red blues and natural grey and white


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## Ziman

Awesome looking bows!!!


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## kegan

Ziman said:


> Awesome looking bows!!!


Thanks. Got another one in the making, almost done actually. It's another sweet little shorty.

David- well, then you gotta make some points to shoot from that awsome bow of yours:wink:. I'm sure you can get all you need to know, or where you can get it, from Primitive Archer.


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## kegan

Here are some pots I made. Dug the clay up with a digging stick and fired the one on the right with a fire started with the hand drill plan to do the smae for the big one


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## CA_Rcher12

How long have you been doing pottery? My brother, mom and one of my sisters make ceramic stuff too.


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## kegan

Them's my firsts. I just found a clean vien, so I couldn't resist. I had some steel pots, so I wanted to replace 'em with some hand made cave man goods.


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## No.1 Hoyt

you have awesome skills ate primitve skills. i wish i had your skills.

i would like to try knapping it looks fun.

i was at soccer practice and my dad went to the trap and skeet facility to shoot his skeet league. after every thing was over we were going to go dove hunting ( i did plenty of shooting but no killing, doves are hard to hit out of 20 shots i only feathered 2) so i brought my bow. so while my dad was shooting he was showing off my bow to people and a stranger walked up and said "wow thats a nice bow, did you make it" and my dad said "no my son did" then the guy said "how much does he charge for one" i thought that was cool.


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## No.1 Hoyt

have you ever made a yew bow?


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## << Volcom >>

wow kegan, i don't think i have ever seen somebody make such nice bows so effortlessly. i'm impressed to say the least. i'd love to try to make one someday, but right now, time does not allow. 55# @ 29-30"....mmm. sounds like venison!

keep it up!


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## kegan

Volcom- Thanks. Habit of mine though, make things as efficient as possible as easily as possible. That's why I love D bows so much- easiest things to tiller, and quite things of beauty:tongue:. 

David- It just takes a little practice- I've been practicing for two years now. Naked into the Wilderness Primitive Wilderness Living and Survival Skills by John and Geri McPherson, covers lots and lots of primitive skills. It and practice, and primitive skills are easy. That's awsome though! But like I've said before, your bow is a BEAUTY! 

I'v never built a yew bow before. Yew's expensive unless you have it locally, not alot left. I have sassafras though, which is supposed to work well for an ELB design. I love hickory though, lots of it around here, and some of the toughest stuff there is.


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## kegan

*Some pictures...*

Well, been playing with my hand drill lately, got it working with out the thumb loops pretty easily (my hands are getting beat up though, after doing the hand drill 6 times in a row yah get blisters). And made a new "bit" drill, just stick a good small piece of material in the end and it's good to go for drilling. won't get smaller either. and my primitive set up


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## No.1 Hoyt

wow thats amaizing. the hand drill is so cool. i like that bow and the arras.

i fletched an arrow with duct tape:wink:. it work good i will make squirrel arras like that now.

i am going to start a Osage bow with hickory backing. Pat b told me how to add perry reflex and how to apply the hickory.

so i need to pre tiller the bow. Forget weigh tand just make sure the limbs are bending even. the taper the hickory fom 1/8 inch at the handle to 1/16 at the nocks. the i glue it up and put blacks under the limbs and add 3 to 4 in. of relex. doesnt seem to hard.


famous last words


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## No.1 Hoyt

im aiming for 50#@28" it could possibly see action this deer season if i feel confident with it.


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## kegan

Yup, took me a while of practice, but I gave up matches. More fun/rewarding anyway. 

That's awsome! Hitting 50# should be easy, so just glowing slow and watching the rest of the stuff should be fine. Gluing in adds weight, so does a reflex, so you'll probably wind up thinning it out some more.

I'm working on two bows right now- a self duplicate of my above sinew D and an ELB style. Fun

Keep us posted on how it all turns out and if you can get anything (especially squirrels>)


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## No.1 Hoyt

those bows ound cool. Are you going to put horn nock on the elb? or just do sidenocks or something like that.

i am going to oreder wood soon. i wish i had land to cut and split my own.

i really like that bow you made and the 2 fletch arrows are cool.

every year we go 3 hours north to hunt with old friends. we've gone up the for 58 years now and i told the land owner i was going to kill a squirrel witha bow i made. he said he would hold me to it so im ganna have to get one.

those darned grays are hard enougth to get witha riffle so bow should be a fun challenge!

if i dont get anything i could use my shotgun as a confidence booster.:wink:


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## armyboy

No.1 Hoyt said:


> those bows ound cool. Are you going to put horn nock on the elb? or just do sidenocks or something like that.
> 
> i am going to oreder wood soon. i wish i had land to cut and split my own.
> 
> i really like that bow you made and the 2 fletch arrows are cool.
> 
> every year we go 3 hours north to hunt with old friends. we've gone up the for 58 years now and i told the land owner i was going to kill a squirrel witha bow i made. he said he would hold me to it so im ganna have to get one.
> 
> those darned grays are hard enougth to get witha riffle so bow should be a fun challenge!
> 
> if i dont get anything i could use my shotgun as a confidence booster.:wink:


squirrels are easy to get with a compound but if you shoot a long or recurve bow you might find it a bit above you head. How can you be going for 58 years to your friends house and only be 13?:: :BangHead: :dontknow:


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## No.1 Hoyt

ou r family has been getting together for the past 58 years my gandpa started it. sorry for not specifing it clearly.


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## kegan

David- thanks, they're really accurate too (especially at my 5-10 yards hunting ranges). Nope, no horn nocks- no horn. I got is shaped, but it still has to cure a little. I like the way it feels in hand. Needs some work though, but the wood was a little funky so that's to be expected

Squirrels should be nothing. All the squirrels I've ever shot with a rifle were within 5 yards- with your longbow it should be nothing. Fun to stalk them too. Anyone who says you can't hit a squirrel with a longbow obviously has never met a primitive archer:wink:, eh?

If you keep in mind that branches make great bows, you can ask alot more peole if they would mind if you "trinned" their over grown tree for them, and if you show them the finished bow afterwards, they'll be alot ore willing to let you come back.

I'm working on a 72" sassafrass ELB backed with an old sheet too. I'm gonna see if I can get it to weight (55-60#) and paint the back nice and purty. I'll be getting some pics up here and on PA soon.


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## No.1 Hoyt

i made 7 arras to go squirrel hunting i think i could hit one at 10 yards 

i can hit what i want to to about 20 yards anything past that im not to good.

i love stalking squirrels its my favorite thing. squirrel hunting is awesome.

my dad thinks i wont be able to hit a squirrel with a bow but one day i will show up with a few and see what he thinks then.

I know a tree trimmer who said he would save me all the mulbery he cuts if their good peices and if he finds a straight osage tree he would give that to me too.

so maybe in the future i could trade you for some of your hickory or something like that.

how long should mulbery cure? 1-2 years?

your elb sounds like a sweet bow. may have to go get me some sassafrass.

i am ordering some mulbery untill i get some of my own from the tree trimmer.

i want it to be 70" ntn and 50# @ 28"


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## armyboy

squirrel hunting is fun until you shoot the squirrel in the gut and i tries to run away or in a tree. i shot one in the head and then one in the gut and one more after that.:sad:


----------



## trapshooter

armyboy said:


> squirrel hunting is fun until you shoot the squirrel in the gut and i tries to run away or in a tree. i shot one in the head and then one in the gut and one more after that.:sad:


i always feel haorrible after wounding an animal


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## No.1 Hoyt

sorry trapshooter is my brothers acount and even if i take his remember me off it always logs back onto his so i always post on accident on his acount


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## muzzyguy16

*Ive heard of them*

last year in oklahoma history we talked about atlatl's but forgot what they were


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## kegan

Squirrels are tenacious buggers. I've ghit them with a 12 gauge and had them run. That's why I like arrows, a good braodhead or such'll slow them down for sure.

My "max yardage" is barely 15. Poor eyes

That's excellent! Mulberry and Osage are tops. I'd love to trade, hafta remember to set a good hickory aside for yah:wink:.

I'd just give it a few months. Cover the ends with paint (unless it's longer than your intended bow) to help prevent splitting.

My ELB didn't turn out. Came oput way under weight (30#) and shortened it alot. I'll try again later. Gonna make another sinewed D sometime.

Atlatls are some of the most dangerous weapons immaginable. It'd put a dart trhough a metal chest plate at 30 yards.


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## No.1 Hoyt

sory about your Elb. your sinew d sounds like a plan though.

ill definately save some wood for you!


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## No.1 Hoyt

how do i split it a wedge and sledge hammer


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> how do i split it a wedge and sledge hammer


Two wedges and a mini-maul (the thick hammer kind). Put one wedge in the end and start the split there, then alternate between wedges, putting near the edge of the growing crack till you reach the end.

Looking forward to trying to get some stones soon too. I'll be trying a "caveman" bow- all stone. With a nice sinew back, possibly.

I found a new way of shooting. With wide handled bows, you just make your arrows nice and stiff (overspined?) and give them a nice two-fletch. The shoot straight, not paradoxing around your bow, therefore making them all easier to make primitively:wink:.


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## trapshooter

i will split them that way my dad thought i had to saw it but i thought i t could just be split.

looking foward to seeing your caveman bow. a stone bow would be something to really be proud of

keep us posted on the progress


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## No.1 Hoyt

trapshooter said:


> i will split them that way my dad thought i had to saw it but i thought i t could just be split.
> 
> looking foward to seeing your caveman bow. a stone bow would be something to really be proud of
> 
> keep us posted on the progress



darn


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## kegan

Splitting is better, as it follows the grain better than sawing. Easier too.

We're going up to the local rock shop, actually, it isnl't local, but nother around here is. See if I can get some chert, agate, obsidian, or other flint like rock. If not, I'll see if I could trade for some via PA.

You know I'd do a build along as soon as i got started on a stone age bow.


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## No.1 Hoyt

my dad has some chert but i already asked if i could trade some on PA he said no.

Justin on PA has tons of obsidian i heard


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> Splitting is better, as it follows the grain better than sawing. Easier too.
> 
> We're going up to the local rock shop, actually, it isnl't local, but nother around here is. See if I can get some chert, agate, obsidian, or other flint like rock. If not, I'll see if I could trade for some via PA.
> 
> You know I'd do a build along as soon as i got started on a stone age bow.


I am very interested in your build along

i never knew you could knapp agate. i bet those points would be beautiful. agate is a very pretty rock


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## No.1 Hoyt

i was going to make a mulbery bow but plans changed to white oak because i can get a board free


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## booTytRappEr

kegan said:


> Looking forward to trying to get some stones soon too. I'll be trying a "caveman" bow- all stone. With a nice sinew back, possibly.


kegan, could please clarify what an all stone caveman bow is?:embara:


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## kegan

booTytRappEr- I only use stone tools, primitively lit fire, and other wild materials to construct a bow. I'm thkinking just to go easy, tie to "pre-tilleredn sticks togerther at the handle with rawhide and let it dry inot a deflexed recurve, this bow using only the sandstone we have around here, and a tiny little anytler chisel i ground out on a piece of sandstone. I'll make a better bow when I get some better rocks:wink:.

David- White oak is an EXCELLENT bow wood- superior ot mulberry in some respects. From the little bit of working I've done with it (we only have a few trees, so I'm kinda hesitant on taking too many), it makes a bow that's twice as good as a similiar red oak one. Excellent choice (and being free isn't that bad either:wink

You can knap any rock that fractures conshoidially (it breaks into flakes/cones).

I'm starting my "home stone" bow tonight, I should get the first pics up tomarrow


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## trapshooter

kegan said:


> booTytRappEr- I only use stone tools, primitively lit fire, and other wild materials to construct a bow. I'm thkinking just to go easy, tie to "pre-tilleredn sticks togerther at the handle with rawhide and let it dry inot a deflexed recurve, this bow using only the sandstone we have around here, and a tiny little anytler chisel i ground out on a piece of sandstone. I'll make a better bow when I get some better rocks:wink:.
> 
> David- White oak is an EXCELLENT bow wood- superior ot mulberry in some respects. From the little bit of working I've done with it (we only have a few trees, so I'm kinda hesitant on taking too many), it makes a bow that's twice as good as a similiar red oak one. Excellent choice (and being free isn't that bad either:wink
> 
> You can knap any rock that fractures conshoidially (it breaks into flakes/cones).
> 
> I'm starting my "home stone" bow tonight, I should get the first pics up tomarrow



i bought a huge HONKIN' peice of linen tonight I will back my white oak board with that.

can i paint linen? how do i keep it from fraying?

i am so excited to see pics of your stone bow! post pics tommorow!


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## No.1 Hoyt

trapshooter said:


> i bought a huge HONKIN' peice of linen tonight I will back my white oak board with that.
> 
> can i paint linen? how do i keep it from fraying?
> 
> i am so excited to see pics of your stone bow! post pics tommorow!


did it again


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## kegan

Linen is very easy and works well for painting. Also makes a really nice backing (I've even used old cotten sheets). The glue should keep it from fraying.

Well, as soon as I get some good stone I'll get some bows made. Till then, I have a really, really poor bow in the process (makde with a little antler wedge and sandstone). So I guess my stoneage arrows will have to be tops.


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## No.1 Hoyt

it must be hard to work with an antler wedge and sandstone.

i couldnt do it

i saw your post on baiting
i am against baiting and high fence hunting. it gives hunting a bad name.

when people hear high fence hunting some think "you hunt in a zoo" and baiting is wrong

Mullet on PA offered me a free mulbery stave but I told him he doesnt have to send it ulness he wants to because i might get some white oak


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> Well, been playing with my hand drill lately, got it working with out the thumb loops pretty easily (my hands are getting beat up though, after doing the hand drill 6 times in a row yah get blisters). And made a new "bit" drill, just stick a good small piece of material in the end and it's good to go for drilling. won't get smaller either. and my primitive set up


that bow is awesome and i love the2 fletch arrows


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## No.1 Hoyt

the picture didnt appear in the quote


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## kegan

Yup- tough work. I gotta let it season (it's drying into a delfex [being bad wood] to reduce stress) so i can use fire to shape it. Sheesh, making abow with stone tools (of the flint variety) seems like a piece of cake after this

I'm against them too. I'm okay on reserves (at leat well operated ones), the kind with those low fences to keep shot animals from getting awy, but not helathy ones. They're usally run pretty well. High fences are crap, and baiting is worse. But no one really stalks anymore, so they don't see anything wrong with it.

I can't wait to see your white oak bow. Honestly, I would rank white oak up there with osage, it is a great wood. Lots of pictures!

Thanks! I'll be using that bow and those arrows (tweaked with a few more added) this Saturday. Hopefully I'll see somehting, maybe even get a shot. I'm so excited!


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## No.1 Hoyt

i dont have the white oak quite yet need to talk to the man who has it so he can bring it the next time i see him. I am excited to see pictures of your rock bow should be really really cool


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## Green River

Kegan, you are an interesting fellow. You have inspired me to finally make the bow I have been thinking about for a while. I bought some instructions on eBay last year. It also came with instructions and pictures for a tiller board. They are written by a famous archer/bower maybe from the 40s-50s...Howard something? Will use white oak or hickory probably.


I just went to look for them and can't find them, I rat holed them and now they are gone! I'll keep digging! You may be interested in the tiller board, maybe not primitive enough for you though.


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## kegan

David- I should have the first (really really poor) up in a week. The other would be up within a few days of getting some rocks.

Green River- Interesting fellow- hah! I prefer insane. Gets right to the point. Howard Hill? The greatest archer of all time? Jopefully you're just pulling my leg! I used to use a tillering board, but since I've begun making only D bows, I've found it unneccesary. Head over to primitivearcher.com, just ask any question (no matter what it is) and you'll get lots of kind advice.


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## No.1 Hoyt

i am getting a mulbery stave from Primitve Archer. Mullet wants to send me it so the white oak will have to wait for a while. I am very slow at bow building but i plan on getting the next one done in a month or maybe even a littl e sooner thats fast for me.

i am so excited to see your stone bow. it should be really cool


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## No.1 Hoyt

Green River said:


> Kegan, you are an interesting fellow. You have inspired me to finally make the bow I have been thinking about for a while. I bought some instructions on eBay last year. It also came with instructions and pictures for a tiller board. They are written by a famous archer/bower maybe from the 40s-50s...Howard something? Will use white oak or hickory probably.
> 
> 
> I just went to look for them and can't find them, I rat holed them and now they are gone! I'll keep digging! You may be interested in the tiller board, maybe not primitive enough for you though.


since i made a bow it has consumed me. bows all are i think about and your compound wont be as much fun anymore:wink: it is my favorite hobby (but i cant forget flyfishing)

my notebooks are filled with bow drawings now:wink:

you will really enjoy it


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan, how do you chase a ring? i am still new at this

i think i know what it means.
find a ring and follow it all the way down the back of the bow. Do i stay on the ring, inside it, or outside it?


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## kegan

You just make sure you don't have any "spots", where you cut thorugh the grain. You're right, you follow the ring all the way down the back. Just make sure you don't really see any lines on the back when you're done, where you are in the ring doesn't really matter.

Taking a while to make a bow is a good thing. It ensures that the bow is built with alot of though, and therefore will be more likely to come out well. Can't wait to see it.

Below is a pic of my new method of matching arrows- "straight shooting". You'll notice the main difference, the arrow is perfectly aligned, and the now is out of the way.


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## trapshooter

cool photo. that is an awesome photo. i will try it. anything to improve acuracy. so far i have only been acurate shootin "Apache style"
and looking down the arrow llike it is a gun barrel.

I have no good arrows. But if shooting an overspined arrow helps accuracy that is good because my arrows are spined for a 48# recurve and im shootin a 40# selfbow.

it seems like my draw length is shorter using a longbow i never noticed it before.


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## No.1 Hoyt

trapshooter said:


> cool photo. that is an awesome photo. i will try it. anything to improve acuracy. so far i have only been acurate shootin "Apache style"
> and looking down the arrow llike it is a gun barrel.
> 
> I have no good arrows. But if shooting an overspined arrow helps accuracy that is good because my arrows are spined for a 48# recurve and im shootin a 40# selfbow.
> 
> it seems like my draw length is shorter using a longbow i never noticed it before.


always forget to log out


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## kegan

trapshooter said:


> cool photo. that is an awesome photo. i will try it. anything to improve acuracy. so far i have only been acurate shootin "Apache style"
> and looking down the arrow llike it is a gun barrel.
> 
> I have no good arrows. But if shooting an overspined arrow helps accuracy that is good because my arrows are spined for a 48# recurve and im shootin a 40# selfbow.
> 
> it seems like my draw length is shorter using a longbow i never noticed it before.


I just find a thick piece of sourwood (about as big as my little finger tip), debark and striaghten it, and it's a shaft. Spined, they are like 30-50# heavier than my bow (57#). The main point that it does for increasing accuracy is a) allows you to use heavier arrows (slower arrows help you fix mistakes) and b) they make it easier to get alot of arrows matched to your bow. You can also use this to "look down the arrow" to get your shot straight, or do it purley instinctive, like I do. This methods seems to like a cant as well. This might work well with your "Apache" style of shooting.

I have shortened my draw length from 28" when I first began to 25" now. Just seems easier.


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## booTytRappEr

KEgan, you've persuaded me to break out those two hickory staves i put away for drying last year! At this point they are just two halves of a six inch diameter hickory tree that i split.

btw, you should start a selfbow thread in general population and hopefully get some of the others to join the world of selfbows.


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## kegan

booTytRappEr said:


> KEgan, you've persuaded me to break out those two hickory staves i put away for drying last year! At this point they are just two halves of a six inch diameter hickory tree that i split.
> 
> btw, you should start a selfbow thread in general population and hopefully get some of the others to join the world of selfbows.


You can probably split those each once more.

Primitivearcher.com


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## Irishrobin

kegan why do you close ur eye ?


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## kegan

I normally don't. Just did in the picture cause of the flash.


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## Bowhunter500

Ill be honest.. i have both eye open till like the last second of the shot.. then i close my eye to make sure im aiming where i want to!


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## kegan

I normally don't aim, but I'll line up my arrow for long shots (30+ yards). Works well enough. OUt to fifteen yards or so I shoot instinctively rather well.


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## No.1 Hoyt

how many inches of draw could i get out of a 50" bow. my cousin wants one.


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> how many inches of draw could i get out of a 50" bow. my cousin wants one.



Generall, a D bow that bends through the handle with a nice backing and good tiller can get a draw that's half the bow length (25"). Take 6" off the length before you divuide it in half for bows with stiff handles (50-6=44/2=22" draw). D bows can also be left low-stress at short lengths if you leave the draw below half.

A little more practice can give you a bow that can draw a few inches moe than half its length. Justin Snyder made a 36" bow with a 20" draw and a hickory and sinew backing on an ipe belly.


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## trapshooter

i made a slate head. it is cool.lots of fun and it will be th first time i dont tip an arrow with a nutter.

should start my next bow soon. when i chase a ring is th grain vertical or horisontal?


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## kegan

trapshooter said:


> i made a slate head. it is cool.lots of fun and it will be th first time i dont tip an arrow with a nutter.
> 
> should start my next bow soon. when i chase a ring is th grain vertical or horisontal?


That's awsome- I made a small slate head for history class a few years ago, but I haven't gotten any slate since then. Got any pics?

The grain will be vertical, but when you look at the back, it shoul all just be one color and no lines (well, no real grain lines anyway).


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## No.1 Hoyt

ill get some pics. i had a real hard time getting it sharp so i used a file and an old carbide broadhead sharpener and finally got it good enough but its definately not flint or obsidian sharp.


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## kegan

Yeah, slate is alot like bone- it can get sharp, but not all that easily- I've heard that yto make up for not being as sharp they should be seerated, but I'd take that with a grain of salt. I can't wait to see some good pics. Nothing's obsidian sharp though.

I have a short (55") hickory bow in the making. It is a stiff handled D with slightly recurved tips. I sinewed it to bring it up from 50# and to give it more oomph. If she's a shooter, I should have fun decorating it. Either way though, I should get some pics up in a week or so if the weather permits.


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## No.1 Hoyt

the hickory d sounds cool. i cant wait to see it! what i have is not real slate its "mud stone" at least thats what i call it. it is not as hard as real slate but it is still better than tipping all my arrows with nutters or some type of blunt. at 10 yards it could prbably kill what it hit. i mounted it on my first ever real 3 fletch arrow. i will have pics soon.


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## No.1 Hoyt

now i fully understand why the arrow is more important than the bow for accuracy. this arrow is super accurate. the fletching are left wing turkey feathers.


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## No.1 Hoyt

i forgot about pics


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## No.1 Hoyt

the flie size for the fletching pics are to big for AT. Check PA it will be posted there.


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## kegan

Sweet! Yeah, finding the right stuff for a good point can be tough. But I like bone/shell/horn/antler for primitive points. Just scrape and sand. Tougher than stone, and can get nice 'n' sharp. I saw your arrow- it's sweet! Really well feltched. Astraight shaft and good flethcing are keys to a well made arrow. Took me forever to get that. 

I finally got some rocks. Some obsidian. I got a couple blades made. I'll see if I can get started on a stone-age bow soon. I'll post pics for a build along here on the slefbow thread. Below are some blades I knocked off and the set up of my sinewing.


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## No.1 Hoyt

that is awesome. i love those blades and that bow ready to be sinewed. cant wait for pics of a stone age bow! that will be a major accomplishment.

how sharp are those blades?

what is the easiest wood to spilt? are there ways to split it without a wedge? all i have is a hatchet and maul. i know for sure i have access to hickory, oak, and possibly black locust because it lines the raods by my house. will have to some more exploring and see what other trees there are.


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## kegan

Thanks. The obsidian makes wicked sharp knives- perfect for points and slicing knives, but it isn't really tough enough for heavy carving. Gotta make some thicker ones for that.

To split wood (use hickory by the way, easiet to work and strongest wood there is- just toast the belly or sinew the back) just pound the hatchet into the middle of the upper end (toward the top of the tree or the end of the limb) and pound it down the length- works like a charm on pieces about 4".

I should get some pics up of the stoneage bow this weekend after some hunting, and the sinewed bow should be ready in a week or two. I'll also be starting on a heavy bow of 75# or so. Wanna start shooting heavy weight to get a flatter trajectory outta my heavy arrows.


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## No.1 Hoyt

dang KEgan HIll a 75# bow your a beast:wink: thats awesome.

can i use a hatchet to get the bark off? i will cut it tonight or this weekend.


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> dang KEgan HIll a 75# bow your a beast:wink: thats awesome.
> 
> can i use a hatchet to get the bark off? i will cut it tonight or this weekend.


don't get me wrong- it's gonna take me a few weeks to get a hold on shooting such a heavy bow, but after a month or so it'll be worth it

yup, but around this time of year a drawknife works great too. alot jmore careful that way.

Below are some pics of a new knife i made. it's steel, but obsidian is more of a flesh cutter, and until i can get something a little tougher, it'll have to do. at least i didn't buy anything on it. i attached two sassafrass slits with pine pitch and wrapped the handle with rawhide. the blade is from a bandsaw blade from venisonburger on PA.


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## No.1 Hoyt

that knife is awesome! i love it. those PA people are nice. Since i dont have $60 to spend on a draw knife a hatchet will have to do. My dad doesnt think i can do this. so tomorrow after i get back from hunting im going to find a hickory tree and whoop its trunk:wink: and show up with some nice staves and see the look in his face but first i have to find something to hit the hatchet with.


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## kegan

I saw your staves- nice pieces! Thanks for the compiment on the knife. If you have a fixed bladed knife, just stick the point in a block of wood and you have a drawknife. Tonight I will get pics up of my new 75# elm bow, Sweetie, and some arrows I made for her. Just got to make some broadheads and put a handle and tips on the bow. I really like her


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## No.1 Hoyt

i will try to get an old butcher knife from my dad. your elm sweetie is a sweetie. i really like it. one my favorite bows from you so far. definately in my top choices for BOM. i got a mulbery stave from mullet on PA. it has a hump midway down midway down the stave. how do i work around it. if it turns out right could be my new hunting bow.


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## kegan

Thanks! I really like it. If the hump is just a superficial bump- ignore it. I have alot of bows that have those and they have no problem. If it is a rough knot, just leave a little wood to the left and right of it.

And now Sweetie. She's 64 1/2" long, 75# at 26". Smooth as silk and strong as a beast! The arrows are arromatic cedars I doweled myself, the broadheads are 2 1/2" x 1" of wicked cutting edge- truly works of beauty. I love 'em. If I wasn't having such a bad year for deer, I wouldn't have to worry about running outta venison.


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## Bowhunter500

Kegan.. that is just a beauty! Looks like a wonderful piece of work! Keep it up and start stalking! Go while the leaves are green... ish.. lol! Easier to stalk up on!


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> Thanks! I really like it. If the hump is just a superficial bump- ignore it. I have alot of bows that have those and they have no problem. If it is a rough knot, just leave a little wood to the left and right of it.
> 
> And now Sweetie. She's 64 1/2" long, 75# at 26". Smooth as silk and strong as a beast! The arrows are arromatic cedars I doweled myself, the broadheads are 2 1/2" x 1" of wicked cutting edge- truly works of beauty. I love 'em. If I wasn't having such a bad year for deer, I wouldn't have to worry about running outta venison.


have you ever tried to sell them? you could made some money doing that! just a thought.



year 2010. Kegan self bow custom bow and arrow shop!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kegan

Thanks. I really like it. She's hasn't got the greatest cast, but at my hunting yardages (10-20 yards) she flings an arrow HARD. I put a sourwood blunt trhough a board with her. I have plans for another bow of weight like this, and my short sinew-backed bow is just about done.

Bowhunter- It's just a *bad* year for deer. We have some new neighbors, who brought in eight guys from Pittsburgh to blast deer with in-lines. And our other neighbors have left their dogs run wild, so they've been running deer for a while (haven't seen them, just heard them at night so I couldn't do anyhting if I wanted to). Haven't seen a deer in a while now:sad:.

Armyboy- I would sell them, but there is a 11% tax on selling bows, and I couldn't justify having people pay more. That's why I try at great lengths to help others make good bows (it's easy if you know what you're doing). David can vouch for this- look at his wicked bow!


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> Thanks. I really like it. She's hasn't got the greatest cast, but at my hunting yardages (10-20 yards) she flings an arrow HARD. I put a sourwood blunt trhough a board with her. I have plans for another bow of weight like this, and my short sinew-backed bow is just about done.
> 
> Bowhunter- It's just a *bad* year for deer. We have some new neighbors, who brought in eight guys from Pittsburgh to blast deer with in-lines. And our other neighbors have left their dogs run wild, so they've been running deer for a while (haven't seen them, just heard them at night so I couldn't do anyhting if I wanted to). Haven't seen a deer in a while now:sad:.
> 
> Armyboy- I would sell them, but there is a 11% tax on selling bows, and I couldn't justify having people pay more. That's why I try at great lengths to help others make good bows (it's easy if you know what you're doing). David can vouch for this- look at his wicked bow!


sell them on ebay and if you sell them like on craigs list then when you get big enough then set up shop. who nows you might become a famous bow maker like Fred Bear etc.


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## No.1 Hoyt

i have absolutely no tools. i mean no tools.

taking the sapwood off my mulbery stave is discouraging. i dont have a draw knife or a long knife to make one.

do you know of any ways to take off sapwood without many tools


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## kegan

No tools huh? Well... scrapers (a sharp piece of metal that is) can be used... sticking an old kitchen knife, or even a 4" pocket knife (like a hunting knife) in a block of wood for a drawknife... a hatchet can be used, but slowly... or you could even leave the sapwood on. Would leave you with a nice bow, a little heavy and slightly sluggish compared to an all heartwood bow, but lightening up the tips or backing it with sinew would fix that.

Well, made my first stone point. Obsidian, about an inch wide, slightly longer than it is wide, and SHARP. Not the best looker, but about an eighth of an inch thick and would tear through flesh. Not really form, but definately function. I think I'll set this on aside as it is my first point, but if I managed to make more I would have no problem hafting them. Made it with a piece of sandstone and an old nail I found in the woods


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## CA_Rcher12

man, I only get callouses like that when I play guitar for a very, VERY long time...:tongue:


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## No.1 Hoyt

i am calling our friend who is a cooper to see where to get a draw knife. i am going to make a scraper too

i think that point is awesome. it is a looker to me. i would love to learn to knap.


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## kegan

CA archer- those are from the hand drill, my other hand is actually worse. Eventually it's like wearing gloves all the time though. But i have to watch it, most of my friends (girls) don't like them

David- I got a drawknife a year ago at a "flea market" at a local annual steam engine show. Tough to find now days, at least cheap ones. 

As for knapping, just get Naked into the Wilderness by John and Geri McPherson from 3Rivers Archery (it's like $20). Teaches you everything you need to know on primitive skills; kinda like my "bible" if you will.


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## No.1 Hoyt

i was just about to ask how to do the hand drill but I dont know anymore since the girls dont like them i'll just learn the bow drill:wink:

I am asking fo r naked into the wilderness for my b-day whish is coming up in a little bit ( the 28th to be exact)

that reminds me I saw your birthday on PA it was hillarious. Did you ever get the bucket of P... and the caribou hides. those inuit ladies chewing on pee stained hides...braver than me. i would stick to brain tan

happy late b-day


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## Bowhunter500

Kegan.. you know better than that! If the ladies dont like it... no more of the hand drill.. i guess i wouldnt want to be a girl and be... well you know with those hands! ha! 

At least my girlfriend wouldnt! :wink:


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## No.1 Hoyt

did you ever make a bow from that locust stave?i rememberd seeing that and was wondering if you made a bow from that


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## kegan

Bowhunter- God point. But I save money in fire starters, which could be used to spend money on them, so then what? Bet no one thinks of that now do they? Besides, they look a whole lot worse than they feel.

David- Naked into the Wilderness (both 1 and 2) are excellent books are learning how to actually DO primitive skills. Most of the stuff out there is good, but it will teach you everything you want to know.

Your birthday is the day before my brother's-cool

I dunno if I'd chew P tanned hides. Chewing on raw hides is enough for me

Nope- the little locust broke. After the sinew I couldn't set it back in the handle and CRACK! Besides, it would have come out horribly underweight!


----------



## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> *Bowhunter- God point. But I save money in fire starters, which could be used to spend money on them, so then what? Bet no one thinks of that now do they? Besides, they look a whole lot worse than they feel*.


Well.. That is a good point... here in iowa.. im what people would call SPOILED! ha i get money to do pretty much anything! I mean within reason but yea... i love it!


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Well.. That is a good point... here in iowa.. im what people would call SPOILED! ha i get money to do pretty much anything! I mean within reason but yea... i love it!


Here in PA I'm what people call "crazy"!

I'll be getting some pics of a new hatchet bow (bow made with just a hatchet) up tomarrow. It is a really rough-beauty though, made out of a dead hickory tree. Just letting it break in right now. Gotta finish it and test it for shooting (see if it doesn't break). I have a problem:wink:. If it doesn't break (I hope it doesn't) it will be a really neat character bow- lots of knots, worm holes on the back, and tons of marks from the hatchet.


----------



## Bowhunter500

Sounds interesting! Get that bad boy up!


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Sounds interesting! Get that bad boy up!


I burnished the back with an old shed, toasted the belly over a fire, and now she's a hard hitting 60#, 67" hickory bow. I'll put some linseed on it when I get home and get some pics up


----------



## kegan

Here it is- my ugly little hatchet bow. 67 1/2" long, 60# at 26". Fast and accurate. Finished with candle wax (some real crap) and pine pitch and ash. Took about two hours, including toasting the belly over a hand drill fire and tillering it out. Sanded with sandstone. Ugly little thing, but it'd make meat quite nicley!


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## tylerolsen12

cool looks good kegan


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

that hatchet bow is cool i like it alot. i made a hatchet bow for a friend once before i really got into bow making it was fun shoot decent but it was UGLY

Have you ever made cordage from willow shoot bark? I think i will try that first then try dogbane or nettle.


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## kegan

Thanks. A bow with a properly toasted belly and nicely burnished back will shoot almost as well as a finely sinewed bow. The tool it's made with makes little difference too.

I don't have any available willow, usually i use hickory bark, aspen bark, yucca leaves, or, most often, milkweed. Rawhide is my favorite material to use for cordage though simply because it is so strong.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

i am going to harvest some nettle tonight hopefully i have barely any homework.

love your bow. it is so cool and very primitve. I dont understand how can you build so many bows and still have time to do anything else:wink:? your a machine

i got this awesome mulbery stave in my basement but i have no tools and I am going through bow building withdraws so i am going to get started on a board bow ASAP. i plan it being around 70" ntn and50# with some flipped tips hopefully it will be my hunting bow.

btw there is osage by my school too


----------



## kegan

I like making cordage- takes very little work/concetration once you get the hang of it. I'll sit on my bed at night watching tv and cord some milkweed

Well, most of the time i have a day off, and since this year is HORRIBLE for deer hunting, i get alot more of them. but, it usually only takes me a few hours to make a good bow (considering all my bows are now simple D's. two tapers, a _little_ bit of tillering, and i'm done). Board bows are really cool too because the wood is almost at dimensions already, and since most is kiln dried, the belly is already kinda tempered. Can't wait to see how it turns out

I think a good hatchet is like $15. If you go slow, it, some rough sandpaper, and a pocket knife should be all you need to build a good, simple D bow (D bows come out really well if you use a good wood like hickory, Osage, mulberry, or even elm). All you need to do is draw out a rough width outline, chop it close, carve/sand off the rest, then taper the thickness to whatever you need (weight). Usually, if the width drops in half or more, then it only needs about 1/8" of thickness tapering!

And, as it turns out, the people who "own" the osage (it's across the road right on the edge) are distant realatives! Muwahahahaha!!!!


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## trapshooter

chop that osage down:wink: make some bows. how is that PA osage?

i would like to make a hatchet bow i have some hickory staves that are waiting to be made into a bow
i cant wait to try to make cordage sounds like lots of fun.

Later i will post a pic of my hickory i cut a while ago. its got some twist i wanted to see what you think. I am pretty sure i can make a bow out of it.


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## kegan

I will as soon as i can get permission Hopefully it's good stuff.

Sounds good! Get any tools to work them?

Yup. It's one of those primitive skills that seem hard and really necessary, but is easy and pretty neat:wink:. Learning primitive skills is alot easier if you tackjle the simple ones, like cordage, fire, and basic knapping first

I think I saw them on PA. Looked good to me. Had some of them, made some good bow out of them. Hickory is a great bow wood, but it takes FOREVER to dry. They're nearly impossible to break though, and toasting the belly will make hickory one of the top woods. Hold it over a fire, then hold it over the coals, watch scorching, and it'll shoot better than a modern laminate


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

i heard persimmon was good stuff and the grain is beautiful but i would of thought by you it is to far north for persimmon? A persimmon bow would be cool though. 

If i work my hickory staves down to a 2 by 2 how long will it take to dry?

i have no tools but i will invest in a draw knife soon. as far as i know I can use a bandsaw, planes, dremel( what can i use it for i heard they are worthless), lots of files, hatchet, chisel i think you get the picture but i dont have a draw knife or a spokeshave or anything like that and i need those i want to work that mulbery stave so bad but i need a drawknife.

I want to learn lots of primitve skills I am very interested in them. I would lilke to learn as many as i can.


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## kegan

Never made a persimon bow myself, so I don't know what to tell you.

Well, if you actually make the bow while it is green, just not leaving it strung, it should take two or three weeks to dry in a warm spot (next to a fireplace or heater for example). Just tie it to a board or log so it doesn't warp. You could also put blocks of wood under the bow while drying to give it whatever shape you want. Such a bow, once heat treated on the belly, will perfrom exceptionally well.

With all those, you don't need a draw knife or spokeshave. The hatchet, planes, and rasps (wood files) will be all you will need. The dremel isn't useless- I use my father's to score tough metals, like saw blades, to break them in a vise for arrowheads. A point made of such materials will perform as well, or better, than modern store bought points.

You don't need to know alot. Fire, cordage, tools, traps, clothes, containers/cooking, and shelters are all the skills you need. All of which are simple. Once you get these, you can move on to pottery, bow and arrows, etc. Hopefully, if you get Naked inot the Wilderness for your birthday (I haven't forgot) you'll have all the skills you will ever need right in one place with lots and lots of pictures.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

ok one of my staves has about 3" of reflex and very little twist so i might start roughing out a bow soon. each time i finish working on a green stave do i have to seal it every time?

Can i tiller it green? hopefully i do get naked into the wilderness for my birthday but i cant count my chickens before they hatch.

my attic is warm can i drya bow in there?

i have more questions but i have to go


----------



## kegan

Honestly, I don't seal any of my staves. I usually just try and get them as small as possible, so they don't crack or wwhat not. The only problem with small pieces is warpig, and tieing them down fixes that.

Yes, you can tiller it green. I you wanted to dry in some relfex-deflex, slight recurves, or what not, you would tiller it green and then tie it down on a board or log with wdges to give it the desired shape. 

I hope you get it too, it truly is a wealth of information.

If it is warm and dry, then yes. It should dry quicker there.

Well, here is a new bow I made for my brother for his birthday. It is 60" long, an American flatbow (I don't like making them anymore though). Quite the performer. I wouldn't hesitate to say it shoots better than a modern recurve, longbow, or even low-end compound. It shoots fast, hard, is quite smooth, and should be a great gift. 75# at 25".


----------



## kegan

Here is a pic of the little sinew bow I spoke of months ago. It is 55" long, hickry recurve, 45# at 26". It needs a couple coats of tru-oil or polyurethane, but if anyone would want it, just send me and IGluIt4U a PM.


----------



## kegan

Here is Bowhunter500's bow as of yet. 68" long, 1 1/4" wide, flipped the tips, and decorated the belly. It needs to break in a good bit before I can test it for weight, but I will probably have to pike it. It's rough from hatchet marks, but is quite a beaute.


----------



## CA_Rcher12

Lucky dude. epsi:


----------



## Bowhunter500

CA_Rcher12 said:


> Lucky dude. epsi:


Dang right! hahaha 

That bow lookss SWEET! Oh i cant wait to shoot it! hahaha


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Dang right! hahaha
> 
> That bow lookss SWEET! Oh i cant wait to shoot it! hahaha


Just a few more days bud:wink:. So far, at her unfinished state, The Ugly Stick shot an arrow WELL. Smooth and rather quick. I increased the refelx in the tips, so she should be even faster, and toasted the belly.


----------



## master hunter

kegan said:


> Hope no one minds, but I couldn't figure out how to send pics so I firgured just start a thread here. Here are some pics of my selfbows. I only have three good one's right now (gave some away, traded some off, etc.). Top one is one of my first good shooters, a 50#, 74" hickory. The next one is my current hunter, a 72" 60# red oak bow, and the last one is a really short sinew backed bow, about 50# and 55" long.


my dad has or had a self bow


----------



## IGluIt4U

Bowhunter500 said:


> Dang right! hahaha
> 
> That bow lookss SWEET! Oh i cant wait to shoot it! hahaha





kegan said:


> Just a few more days bud:wink:. So far, at her unfinished state, The Ugly Stick shot an arrow WELL. Smooth and rather quick. I increased the refelx in the tips, so she should be even faster, and toasted the belly.


Hey guys, sorry, I didn't get home til late last night, so I'll be on the phone this evening to get everything straightened out with you both so we can get er on the way... :thumb: :wink:

My apologies.. :embara:


----------



## Bowhunter500

IGluIt4U said:


> Hey guys, sorry, I didn't get home til late last night, so I'll be on the phone this evening to get everything straightened out with you both so we can get er on the way... :thumb: :wink:
> 
> My apologies.. :embara:


Its alright! I was waitin for the call last night with my mom! She will be here tonight too!!


----------



## kegan

IGluIt4U- No problem, it still needs about a day of work. 

Here are the latest pics. I fixed, stained, put on the handle, and toasted the belly. Tomarrow will be the tuning and she'll be redy for shipping.


----------



## kegan

Here is bowhunters finished bow. 68" long, 65# at 28". It has a light cast at long range, but has a tight accuracy at close hunting ranges. Solid and forest tone, it is VERY smooth. Hope Alex likes it=)


----------



## IGluIt4U

He's gonna love it.. I'm sure... :tongue:

Kegan, I'll give you a call this evening. I have the shipping info needed, but my power was off all night last night, so I didn't have internet to get my pm's with your phone info .... :lol: Been a tough week.. :mg: 

I'll ring you this evening so that you can get it on the way... :thumb:

Great job!!


----------



## kegan

IGluIt4U said:


> He's gonna love it.. I'm sure... :tongue:
> 
> Kegan, I'll give you a call this evening. I have the shipping info needed, but my power was off all night last night, so I didn't have internet to get my pm's with your phone info .... :lol: Been a tough week.. :mg:
> 
> I'll ring you this evening so that you can get it on the way... :thumb:
> 
> Great job!!


I sure hope so

Excellent, no problem. Sure hope you get some time to relax! Sounds like it's been really hectic!


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Here is bowhunters finished bow. 68" long, 65# at 28". It has a light cast at long range, but has a tight accuracy at close hunting ranges. Solid and forest tone, it is VERY smooth. *Hope Alex likes it*=)


Psh.. more like make love! lol its sweet!!!!!


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Psh.. more like make love! lol its sweet!!!!!


Excellent. It's in the mail as of this morning.


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Excellent. It's in the mail as of this morning.


AWESOME!! Thanx a bunch Kegan!!


----------



## kegan

I'm gonna be starting another build along soon, anybody have any requests for soemthig they want covered/want to see?


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## kegan

Well, I started building a sassafras bow today for a build along, but it broke, and depending on how well I can fix it, I may or may not be using it. So, I'll get the build along up tomarrow, using better wood.


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## master hunter

u make all ur self bows or does some 1 do it for u?


----------



## kegan

*And now, the build along*



master hunter said:


> u make all ur self bows or does some 1 do it for u?


I make ALL of my bows, and arrows, and quiver, and points, and whatever else I need.

I'm building a 66" long D hickory D bow with a rounded belly, hopefully about 75-80#, and then I'll do some scomsmetics.

And now for the build along. I started by selecting a stave out of the wood. I had cut it and split it months ago, but it is still slightly green. I started by cutting it to length and squaring the end, and making then splitting off excess in the belly wood. Then I debarked it and marked the center of the bow with a piece of string. I marked it and then marked the center (lenght this time). from there I marked up and down 2" for a 4" grip. I marked 3/4" on both sides from the center to give me a 1 1/2" grip. This I tapered in straight lines to 3/4" nocks. I then, for lack of time, hogged off the excess wood on the sides with my fatehr's saber saw. That's all I got tonight.


----------



## master hunter

kegan said:


> I make ALL of my bows, and arrows, and quiver, and points, and whatever else I need.
> 
> I'm building a 66" long D hickory D bow with a rounded belly, hopefully about 75-80#, and then I'll do some scomsmetics.
> 
> And now for the build along. I started by selecting a stave out of the wood. I had cut it and split it months ago, but it is still slightly green. I started by cutting it to length and squaring the end, and making then splitting off excess in the belly wood. Then I debarked it and marked the center of the bow with a piece of string. I marked it and then marked the center (lenght this time). from there I marked up and down 2" for a 4" grip. I marked 3/4" on both sides from the center to give me a 1 1/2" grip. This I tapered in straight lines to 3/4" nocks. I then, for lack of time, hogged off the excess wood on the sides with my fatehr's saber saw. That's all I got tonight.


thats sweet man. is it hard to make it?


----------



## kegan

master hunter said:


> thats sweet man. is it hard to make it?


Nope, a little physical work, but nothing any archer can't handle. Just go slow and don't stress the wood (working with green hickory then letting it draw after you build it preetty much insures it won't beak- hickory is indestructble).


----------



## booTytRappEr

kegan said:


> Nope, a little physical work, but nothing any archer can't handle. Just go slow and don't stress the wood (working with green hickory then letting it draw after you build it preetty much insures it won't beak- hickory is indestructble).


Kegan, you need to get a hold of some locust. ('tis harder than hickory)


----------



## kegan

booTytRappEr said:


> Kegan, you need to get a hold of some locust. ('tis harder than hickory)


We have some, but hickory is darn near impossible to break. Properly cured, and it will make a near perfect bow. The wood doesn't make a difference as much as people seem to think. But there is some Osage not ar away....

More pics tonight:wink:!


----------



## kegan

*Day two...*

Okay. After hogging off the wood with the saber saw, I used a drawknife to bring the width down to the lines. There was some propeller in the stave (a twist around, kinda like a barber-pole). So I made sure the width was straight down, despite the back-undulations. Now, on to the most important part- thickness and tillering. I used a hatchet to birng the thickness in, taking off the edges on the sides, then the belly, the the sides, then the belly, until I had a nicely tapering, gently bending bow with slightly rounded belly. Unforutnately, I went a little far , having to take an inch from each tip do to too much bend, and the bow will probabaly come out underwieght, though if I try I might be able to get 70#. It still has to dry anyway, which should add some weight. After this I floor tillered it, by bending it with my hand against the floor, testing each limb for strength. Finally The limbs seemed similiar, so I strung it up with a low brace height, cutting my nocks in. I took wood from the stronger limb (I fortunately had no weak spots, just unbalanced limbs). Soon, the limbs were bending evenly at low brace. Unable to check the tiller drawing it myself in front of a mirror like I usually do when building green hickory bows, I made a simple tillering stick to stick between the bow and the string whil it is in the vise. I further balanced the limbs, and gently pulled the limbs back to straight to dry (never do this with a cured bow, it'll break). The bow is now tillered. I'll let it cure, then set to work on finishing it. I intend on making this bow a takedown, but I may not be able to. We'll see. I didn't get to work today, so day three will be tomarrow.


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## master hunter

sweet u just finish that today?:wink:


----------



## kegan

master hunter said:


> sweet u just finish that today?:wink:


For all intensive puproses, it is done, yes. I still have to make it pretty and put some linseed on it, but it will shoot an arrow. I'll take it out of my dryer and start finishing it. I'll also be getting some pics of tewo pother bows I;'ve been working on up as well.


----------



## kegan

Well, just got the bow dried today- and it was pretty deflexed. Reflexed it, heat treated the relfex in, and toasted the belly. I've begun sanding it to make ti pretty too. I'll get pics and more up tomarrow, or maybe later.


----------



## BIGBC

Its lookin mighty fine =]


----------



## kegan

Here are some pics. The bow after it dried, the form, and heat treating. In the pic of my heating, you'll notice some arrow shaft blanks in the background. I've also got some pics of Sweetie, after her makeover:wink:.


----------



## BIGBC

hows it shoot ???


----------



## kegan

BIGBC said:


> hows it shoot ???


Well, I haven't shot the new bow yet. I want to try and make it into a take-down, and am trying to come up with somehting else to "spruce it up". Sweetie shoots excellently though.


----------



## BIGBC

good stuff =]


----------



## 2wyoming

If Keagan wrote a book on how to make self bows, Id buy it.



Just for the record.


----------



## booTytRappEr

2wyoming said:


> If Keagan wrote a book on how to make self bows, Id buy it.
> 
> 
> 
> Just for the record.



ditto!

edit:
instructional video would be even better


----------



## kegan

funny you guys mention a book, I've been working on one off and on for a while. Two actually, one about primitivities with a chapter on archery, and one solely on primitive/traditional archery hunting. I'll let you guys know when I get it done.


----------



## kegan

Sorry for taking so long to finsih up the bow. I've been swamped with school lately, hopefully I should get some up tomarrow though.


----------



## kegan

Well, this bow really didn't turn out. The tillers is nice and it would have been a good shooter, but the wood seasoned funny, so it has taken WAY more set than I would have liked. I'll quit on this one, but save it for a Penobscot later. Maybe after rifle season or during Christmas break. 

I'll be starting on a new hunting longbow tonight. I'll take pics along the way. It'll be 72" long, 70# @ 27", with an elliptical tiller. Test some theories.


P.S. My friend Alex says hi, Clare sucks at Mario cart, and Emily has schizophrenia.


----------



## kegan

*NEVER give a caveman a rifle...*

Or this happens. Well, I went out to get some walnuts ot make some arrows darker, but took my dad's .30-30 along, because we all know just how that happens. Tons of deer, no weapon. Wasn't even being that quiet- just calm, spooked her up, she stood still at 30 yards broadside, and dropped her with one shot. Hit her neck and severed the spine. Wish I could say it were a bow kill, but we desperately need meat for the freezer, and I still have another buck and a doe tag though. Spent the lsat 5 hours skinning, butchering, and packaging her up- that remains weighed about 20#, form a 100# deer. I'm eating some steak right now, and man it's good. I'll get pics up of the tanned hide up some time this month.


----------



## kegan

*Coming up...*

I'll be working on some new bows- one for Bowhunter005, and a new hunting longbow for myself. Wanna test some theories.

Bowhunter005's bow's specs: 45# at 26", 62?" long, riser block, perhaps slightly recurved tips. 

Mine: 70-72", 70# at 27". Elliptical tiller, flat belly. Wider limbs, more dramatic thickness taper for tiller. 

Both Hickory.


----------



## armyboy

kegan said:


> Or this happens. Well, I went out to get some walnuts ot make some arrows darker, but took my dad's .30-30 along, because we all know just how that happens. Tons of deer, no weapon. Wasn't even being that quiet- just calm, spooked her up, she stood still at 30 yards broadside, and dropped her with one shot. Hit her neck and severed the spine. Wish I could say it were a bow kill, but we desperately need meat for the freezer, and I still have another buck and a doe tag though. Spent the lsat 5 hours skinning, butchering, and packaging her up- that remains weighed about 20#, form a 100# deer. I'm eating some steak right now, and man it's good. I'll get pics up of the tanned hide up some time this month.


dude you grose ukey:. i thought you couldn't shot a rifle! 
i have gone in the woods plenty of times without a weapon and oops thats was stupid! congrates


----------



## kegan

armyboy said:


> dude you grose ukey:. i thought you couldn't shot a rifle!
> i have gone in the woods plenty of times without a weapon and oops thats was stupid! congrates


I couldn't-had to practice right after season started. As for gross... all a matter of opinion:wink:!


----------



## master hunter

kegan said:


> Or this happens. Well, I went out to get some walnuts ot make some arrows darker, but took my dad's .30-30 along, because we all know just how that happens. Tons of deer, no weapon. Wasn't even being that quiet- just calm, spooked her up, she stood still at 30 yards broadside, and dropped her with one shot. Hit her neck and severed the spine. Wish I could say it were a bow kill, but we desperately need meat for the freezer, and I still have another buck and a doe tag though. Spent the lsat 5 hours skinning, butchering, and packaging her up- that remains weighed about 20#, form a 100# deer. I'm eating some steak right now, and man it's good. I'll get pics up of the tanned hide up some time this month.


dude that sick!!!!!!! LOL


----------



## armyboy

kegan said:


> I couldn't-had to practice right after season started. As for gross... all a matter of opinion:wink:!


you could have before for too. never said you can't do anything because a little practice can change that real quick. i still think your gross:wink:


----------



## Bowhunter005

Hey Kegan just curious how many bows have you made so far???

Bowhunter005


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter005 said:


> Hey Kegan just curious how many bows have you made so far???
> 
> Bowhunter005


Dunno... somewhere between 50-100, many of whihc were made in order to learn how a bow works. Like the one below.

And I'm not gross... I'm just eccentric:wink:! Trust me, this is quirksy, really "gross" is like a pocher with several thousand dollar equipment. Now THAT is gross!


----------



## kegan

Just finished this bow up. An experiment bow, and to increase my strength. 66" long, 90# at 27". It is smooth as silk despite being so powerful, due to tillering it to be round in the handle. I made this bow "pretty" too. Put a leather grip on and tied it down with artificial sinew to dampen handshock. Never before will Jahova's witnesses bother me. i guess you could call this a bow a "warbow" due to it's power, but it isn't a true warbow as it has a short range, nor is it a true ELB. But I sure wouldn't want to stand in it's arrow path:wink:.


----------



## Crispy

you truly are talented beyond all belief, may not work but you could make a pretty penny making bows for walls


----------



## Bowhunter500

Hey Kegan, 

Could you make me a true English Longbow, the ones which were used to shoot in the air and a range of about 200 yds, and still pierce plate mail (sheet metal armor)? lol

That would be totally sweet!


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Hey Kegan,
> 
> Could you make me a true English Longbow, the ones which were used to shoot in the air and a range of about 200 yds, and still pierce plate mail (sheet metal armor)? lol
> 
> That would be totally sweet!


Any bow can do this if:

1. The arrow is heavy enough
2. The bow is built to have a good cast
3. The bow has a draw weight of over 100#

As for a true ELB, I could't- no yew. Quite expensive and fickle.

Crispy- ALL of my bows are made to work. Wall hangers are against my religion:wink:.


----------



## Bowhunter005

Hows she comin????



kegan said:


> I'll be working on some new bows- one for Bowhunter005, and a new hunting longbow for myself. Wanna test some theories.
> 
> Bowhunter005's bow's specs: 45# at 26", 62?" long, riser block, perhaps slightly recurved tips.
> 
> Mine: 70-72", 70# at 27". Elliptical tiller, flat belly. Wider limbs, more dramatic thickness taper for tiller.
> 
> Both Hickory.


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter005 said:


> Hows she comin????


Drying. I'm going to test her for moisture tonuight, then start bringing it down in weight. form there, i would add the handle and finishing.


----------



## Bowhunter005

Okay sounds good



kegan said:


> Drying. I'm going to test her for moisture tonuight, then start bringing it down in weight. form there, i would add the handle and finishing.


----------



## BIGBC

kegan said:


> Or this happens. Well, I went out to get some walnuts ot make some arrows darker, but took my dad's .30-30 along, because we all know just how that happens. Tons of deer, no weapon. Wasn't even being that quiet- just calm, spooked her up, she stood still at 30 yards broadside, and dropped her with one shot. Hit her neck and severed the spine. Wish I could say it were a bow kill, but we desperately need meat for the freezer, and I still have another buck and a doe tag though. Spent the lsat 5 hours skinning, butchering, and packaging her up- that remains weighed about 20#, form a 100# deer. I'm eating some steak right now, and man it's good. I'll get pics up of the tanned hide up some time this month.


ah dude, whats wrong with cooking it first lol.
id hurl just seein sum1 do that ukey:


----------



## kegan

BIBBC- don't worry, the steaks were cooked. that was just a funny pic i took:wink:

Well, finally got to work on Bowhunter005's bow. Brought it down to just slightyl under 50#, but it is nice and smooth, so I don't want to drop it down to 45#. After breaking in thoroughly, it will probabaly be about 47-48# anyway. I tilelred it, and aplied the stain. Later I'll get the handle and finish on and she'll be done.


----------



## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> BIBBC- don't worry, the steaks were cooked. that was just a funny pic i took:wink:
> 
> Well, finally got to work on Bowhunter005's bow. Brought it down to just slightyl under 50#, but it is nice and smooth, so I don't want to drop it down to 45#. After breaking in thoroughly, it will probabaly be about 47-48# anyway. I tilelred it, and aplied the stain. Later I'll get the handle and finish on and she'll be done.


Lookin good man! Thanx for doin this! Maybe he will get into somethin other than that dang xbox! haha


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Lookin good man! Thanx for doin this! Maybe he will get into somethin other than that dang xbox! haha


Yup- and soon he'll have to start making arrows to keep up with his bow. Then his own bows when he wants to try something new, soon he'll be hooked:wink:!


----------



## stickbowkid

*just got in to traditional*

me and my dad just bought 2 used traditionals that we love to shoot. i got a BEN PEARSON javeline it has
CAT 966 
Lngt 5'6''
serj-10528
[email protected]'' 45xx
on the side what should all that mean


----------



## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Yup- and soon he'll have to start making arrows to keep up with his bow. Then his own bows when he wants to try something new, soon he'll be hooked:wink:!


Sounds good to me! haha


----------



## kegan

stickbowkid said:


> me and my dad just bought 2 used traditionals that we love to shoot. i got a BEN PEARSON javeline it has
> CAT 966
> Lngt 5'6''
> serj-10528
> [email protected]'' 45xx
> on the side what should all that mean


Sounds like it's a 66" 45#@28". 

I'll get pics up of the bow tomarrow. I'm tying the handle on right now. It has three small pieces of top grain, wraped on with artificial sinew. I'm wiping it down with deer fat for waterproofing.


----------



## Tan-Tan

*Just for laughs...*

As my Dad would say...

Good form=]

Tan-Tan


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

I have been away for a while and i had alot of reading to do.

that raw meat thats insane

i love that 90# bow it is awsome

THose hickory staves i have are going to find a new life as arrows because they are warped but there are some staight sections

once Christmas is over my tree will find a new life as arrows!:tongue:


I am bow deprived I havent made one in 3 months its time to start.

o ya that 90# bow is nothing just wait till' i make my 300# bow:wink:


----------



## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> I have been away for a while and i had alot of reading to do.
> 
> that raw meat thats insane
> 
> i love that 90# bow it is awsome
> 
> THose hickory staves i have are going to find a new life as arrows because they are warped but there are some staight sections
> 
> once Christmas is over my tree will find a new life as arrows!:tongue:
> 
> 
> I am bow deprived I havent made one in 3 months its time to start.
> 
> o ya that 90# bow is nothing just wait till' i make my 300# bow:wink:


Reading and writing seem to go hand in hand with primitive archery. I can't glean enough from good archery books. Ever read Howard Hill's Hunting The Hard Way?

Well, we all know _I'm_ insane:wink:

Thanks- come spring I should be able to actualy start practicing with it in earnest. The cold is tightening up my muscles, making it hard to shoot. but shooting Sweetie at 76# should help me prepare

I wouldn't turn them inot arrows quite yet- warped woood can make a good bow, especiall the ever-indestructible hickory. Then again, I've been making some hickory arrows (self doweled after being cut out with a table saw). They are good stuff!

Arrows, fleshing beam, bowls, etc...:wink:. Sitka Spruce is supposedly better than Port Orford cedar!

Oh dear, have you started to see bows in every pice of wood you come by? I know that happens to me.

300# eh? Can't wait to see your purple face as you bring it to full draw. But honestly, how long will it take you to work all the way up to 300#? I'd say a month, two tops:wink:.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

kegan said:


> Reading and writing seem to go hand in hand with primitive archery. I can't glean enough from good archery books. Ever read Howard Hill's Hunting The Hard Way?
> 
> Well, we all know _I'm_ insane:wink:
> 
> Thanks- come spring I should be able to actualy start practicing with it in earnest. The cold is tightening up my muscles, making it hard to shoot. but shooting Sweetie at 76# should help me prepare
> 
> I wouldn't turn them inot arrows quite yet- warped woood can make a good bow, especiall the ever-indestructible hickory. Then again, I've been making some hickory arrows (self doweled after being cut out with a table saw). They are good stuff!
> 
> Arrows, fleshing beam, bowls, etc...:wink:. Sitka Spruce is supposedly better than Port Orford cedar!
> 
> Oh dear, have you started to see bows in every pice of wood you come by? I know that happens to me.
> 
> 300# eh? Can't wait to see your purple face as you bring it to full draw. But honestly, how long will it take you to work all the way up to 300#? I'd say a month, two tops:wink:.




Ya i sart to see bow stuff in every tree now

i cut a stave in half it was the helpless stave the good one w ill be a bow
tried makin an arrow
Messed it up 2


300# in 3 days:wink:

the Christmas trade will be loads of fun
i joined it
i have strings and flies. hopefully he flyfishes if he doesnt it will make great decoration or he might know someone who does

In the big Christmas trade thing he said he was new and if he is starting to make bows he will need strings for them!!!
i hope he likes it


----------



## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> Ya i sart to see bow stuff in every tree now
> 
> i cut a stave in half it was the helpless stave the good one w ill be a bow
> tried makin an arrow
> Messed it up 2
> 
> 
> 300# in 3 days:wink:
> 
> the Christmas trade will be loads of fun
> i joined it
> i have strings and flies. hopefully he flyfishes if he doesnt it will make great decoration or he might know someone who does
> 
> In the big Christmas trade thing he said he was new and if he is starting to make bows he will need strings for them!!!
> i hope he likes it



That happens

This is Keg's best friend Alex. i love him  emily is here too, and she is my bestest friend, more than alex:wink:

Hickory arrows are tops- definately.

300# IN 3 DAYS? Wow, really taking your time, aren't you:wink:.

Oooh, I can't wait. I don't know what to give my guy. I was thinking medicine arrows, but he uses stone points. And i'm pretty sure he has everything else he would need.


----------



## WOWcham

*A new hobby born*

i just finished reading The Bent Stick and have decided to make my first bow out of birch, it may be a odd wood but there is loads of them around my place so they should be easily gotten. i want to try to make a overbuilt bow like the Mear Heath style. I first have to setup a space in the shop to do this in but after i chop a tree i should have a nice project to keep my mind off of school for a while. i plan on makeing a few diffrent types of bows to keep me busy over christmas break.


----------



## kegan

WOWcham said:


> i just finished reading The Bent Stick and have decided to make my first bow out of birch, it may be a odd wood but there is loads of them around my place so they should be easily gotten. i want to try to make a overbuilt bow like the Mear Heath style. I first have to setup a space in the shop to do this in but after i chop a tree i should have a nice project to keep my mind off of school for a while. i plan on makeing a few diffrent types of bows to keep me busy over christmas break.


Excellent! Birch is a good bow wood- especially and over built flatbow type. Depending on the birch, you can save the bark, makes AWSOME containers, especially to hold your arrow building supplies. Kinda completes the cycle.

Birch also makes _excellent_ arrows. Cut a 30" section of tree (maybe from the end of your staves) about 4" in diameter and let it season for a week or two, maybe splitting it in half. Just use a table saw or somehting to cut out 3/8" squares about 30" long once it has dried, or you can split them out by tapping your knife down the length. Plane these into octagons then sand them round. Cut them to length, cuit the nock in and you've got solid hunitng shafts! You can also chuck them up in a drill and spin them trhough a piee of metal with slowly shrinking holes- 1/2", 7/16", 3/8" (more in between the better), but you may want to cut them to 7/16" squares, as I've found it yields much nicer arrows this way. This metho will turn out solid dowels, with little to no problems- practically perfect.

This will beceome more than just a hobby- once you start making bows of hunting weight that can put an arrow where you want it, you'll not be able to stop- look at David and I:wink:. Here's a tip- stretched paracord makes an EXCELLENT bow string.

For your second bow, try a D bow.66-72" long, 1 1/2" wide at the center 16-24", tapering to 1/2" nocks. Thickness varies with weight, usually 3/4" down to 1/2" at the nocks. My farvorite type.


----------



## WOWcham

I love birch trees i have made many containers from trees downed by storms, i am makeing a quiver from some now that have individual tubes for eace arrow. Any wood not being used for the bow will go to arrows, i can make then super strait because i have acess to a stem press.


----------



## kegan

Wowcham- What's a stem press? And please put up some pics of that quiver once your done!!! (and the bows, arrows, and everything else too).


----------



## WOWcham

steam press missed the a.
and i will get pics of the quiver up affter i borrow a camera from my freind.


----------



## kegan

Ah, sounds good! Can't wait to see it. Arrows are MUCH more important than the bow, so making good arrows is a top concern. Boy did it take me while to figure that one out.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

Man this is addictive you will enjoy everybit of it.

Tmorrow i am going on another wood run. I found a hickory tree that is very straight that i will be able to get about 2 staves from

I finally also am getting a drawknife so i will be able to work staves

Could you explain decrowning to me? I think i know what it is but I am not sure. When working whitewoods do you have to be carful not to violate a ring?


----------



## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> Man this is addictive you will enjoy everybit of it.
> 
> Tmorrow i am going on another wood run. I found a hickory tree that is very straight that i will be able to get about 2 staves from
> 
> I finally also am getting a drawknife so i will be able to work staves
> 
> Could you explain decrowning to me? I think i know what it is but I am not sure. When working whitewoods do you have to be carful not to violate a ring?


Totally

Sounds good! Hickory is definately my favorite bow wood. Just make sure it has cured- hickory reaches maximum performance at 7-9%, or, DRY.

Excellent!! Drawknives are excellent for making bows.

Decrowning is when you flatten the back so it has straight grain lines running parallel along the back- like a good straight board. Here, as long as it has the same lines running the length of the bow. You don't want to gouge the growth rings, but if they are thick enough, you don't have to worry yourself to death. Just avoid going to fast or too hard. Heat treating the belly of hickory seems to do better than decrowning it in my experience, as it take less time. Taking tree that yeild 4-6 staves will give you a naturally flat back. And only one tree needs to die for about 4-8 staves- and lots of arrows.


----------



## kegan

*Bowhunter005's bow...*

Here it is. About 62", just under 50# at 26". Rubbed it down with deer fat and gave it a leather and artificial sinew handle build up.


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## Bowhunter005

hey kegan whats my update, and when you do you need to talk to my mom about it or whatever?????


----------



## IGluIt4U

If you guys need some help, just let me know.. I'll be glad to help get the info for shipping or help however I can.. :thumb:


----------



## kegan

I still had your address, so it's in the mail as of yesterday. You should get it in a few days time.


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> I still had your address, so it's in the mail as of yesterday. You should get it in a few days time.


Thanx a bunch Kegan.. means a lot man!

I have two deer in the garage hangin still.. i would send ya the hides.. but i dont know of a way to keep them cold and not stinky as they travel!


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Thanx a bunch Kegan.. means a lot man!
> 
> I have two deer in the garage hangin still.. i would send ya the hides.. but i dont know of a way to keep them cold and not stinky as they travel!


Excellent! You don't have to keep them cold, just let 'em dry a little and they'll last for EVER as crude rawhide. And THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH! I've been in need of a new jacket with winter coming on, the hides would be much, much appreciated!!


----------



## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Excellent! You don't have to keep them cold, just let 'em dry a little and they'll last for EVER as crude rawhide. And THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH! I've been in need of a new jacket with winter coming on, the hides would be much, much appreciated!!


Okay.. i hope theres not a certain way you need to let them cut.. Becuz i skin em and usually stop the hide from going beyond the neck. I get what i can off of the deer. So just let them sit out and dry then package them up and send them to ya?


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> Okay.. i hope theres not a certain way you need to let them cut.. Becuz i skin em and usually stop the hide from going beyond the neck. I get what i can off of the deer. So just let them sit out and dry then package them up and send them to ya?


No certain way. I usually stop short of the head also, and the bottoms of the legs. Yup, just drying it out. I thank you a hundred times over- no one around here bothers to save 'em, and it's been a bad year for deer hunting. You're a life saver!!!


----------



## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> No certain way. I usually stop short of the head also, and the bottoms of the legs. Yup, just drying it out. I thank you a hundred times over- no one around here bothers to save 'em, and it's been a bad year for deer hunting. You're a life saver!!!


So just open em up.. hang em.. and dry em?


----------



## master hunter

how many self bows have you made kegen? do you only shoot self bows?


----------



## Bowhunter005

hey kegan thanks a bunch you rock, i have not gotton the bow yet but im sure i will get it soon, thanks man!!!!!!


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter500- You can just lay them on the floor, no need to hang 'em. Takes about two or three days in a warm dry room.

Master- I can't even remember how many I've made, and yes, selfbows/backed bows are all I shoot. 

Bowhunter005- You're welcome! i got it out on Friday, with priority, so it hsould be thereby Friday or so.


----------



## Crispy

kegan. if i ever get a deer, id also send you the hides...does it matter what size deer they are??V cuz i have afew bambi's,momma's, and 1 buck. none over probably 175lbs.. they are small here.


----------



## kegan

Crispy said:


> kegan. if i ever get a deer, id also send you the hides...does it matter what size deer they are??V cuz i have afew bambi's,momma's, and 1 buck. none over probably 175lbs.. they are small here.


Nope- most of the deer i get around here are little bambi's. Anything would be much appreciated, and I'd be eternally grateful (and that means you get your own holiday when I'm ellected president:wink!


----------



## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Nope- most of the deer i get around here are little bambi's. Anything would be much appreciated, and I'd be eternally grateful (and that means you get your own holiday when I'm ellected president:wink!


Well.. Idk if i can keep it in a warm area.. I know for a FACT my mom wont let me bring em in the house. Would the garage just not work out.. (and i would have to hang them.. becuz my mom would prolly flip out if i laid them on the ground. haha


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

hey kegan when your president can yo make a students union so if the teachers are mean we can all walk out.

i finally started on a new bow. i am almost ready to tiller it should be done soon.

its red oak backed with linen. 2 " wide 66"ntn and it will pull 50# @ 28"


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter- you could always freeze/chill 'em. Usually we have some room to spread them out, but my dad used to put his hides in the freezer for a few hours befroe putting in his ruck to bring it home. Leaving outside over night rolled up has always worked too.

David- Oooh, schools are the first ting I'm going to fix-muwahahahahahahaha! Sweet! can't wait to see it done. Where did you find a 2" red oak board?


----------



## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Bowhunter- you could always freeze/chill 'em. Usually we have some room to spread them out, but my dad used to put his hides in the freezer for a few hours befroe putting in his ruck to bring it home. Leaving outside over night rolled up has always worked too.
> 
> David- Oooh, schools are the first ting I'm going to fix-muwahahahahahahaha! Sweet! can't wait to see it done. Where did you find a 2" red oak board?


Great. I could do that! We are supposed to get like 12 inches saturday! OOO YEA!


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

i found it at lowes it was a perfect board the best grain i have seen at lowes.
I have finally found a sawmill in my area so until i cut wood i will have to check that place out. My brothers been there and he said they have tons of osage


----------



## rabbitslayer123

*Wow*

wow kegan, i would love to be able to make selfbows like you...i have tried heaps of times, a few snapped and others just werent good enough to use....i have just given up really....


----------



## kegan

rabbitslayer123 said:


> wow kegan, i would love to be able to make selfbows like you...i have tried heaps of times, a few snapped and others just werent good enough to use....i have just given up really....


it isn't too big a problem- just go slow and Try to get it all to bend evenly thtrought. If you want help, jsut PM me and I'll help you out.


----------



## master hunter

kegan said:


> Bowhunter500- You can just lay them on the floor, no need to hang 'em. Takes about two or three days in a warm dry room.
> 
> Master- I can't even remember how many I've made, and yes, selfbows/backed bows are all I shoot.
> 
> Bowhunter005- You're welcome! i got it out on Friday, with priority, so it hsould be thereby Friday or so.


thats sweet hav u ever tried shooting anything else.


----------



## Bowhunter005

hey keagn i got it today its nice man thanx a bunch!!!!!


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter- Excellent! Tell me how she shoots!

Master- I tried a little compound for a little bit- didn't like it. The I tried fiberglass laminated longbows and recurves- didn't like them. None of them perfomred so well that I could justify spending alot of money on 'em. Even among selfbows I have a perference- the simplest D bows possible. I've tried flatbows, recurves, shortbows, etc., but I like the simple D bow for hunting- they usually work quite well with heavy hickory or sourwood shafts, don't take long to make, and are quite reliable.

Then there were arrows. 

Arrows are the main part of the equation. A bow is of paltry importance by direct comparison to the arrow, and no carbon, aluminum, or modern cedar arrow was tough, resilent, heavy, or cheap enough to work for me. I've tried 'em all- and now I've found the kind that really works without using alot of material. I have yet to find the perfect bow design though.

Besides, modern bows aren't nearly as much fun since I don't get to make them!


----------



## rabbitslayer123

kegan said:


> it isn't too big a problem- just go slow and Try to get it all to bend evenly thtrought. If you want help, jsut PM me and I'll help you out.


thanks a bunch...pm sent!:tongue:


----------



## kegan

I'll be getting some pics of a new bow and arrows I'm working on soon. And one my brother started (his first). One thing to remember about your first bow- go slow, don't remove alot of wood at one time, and make sure the tiller remains even, which helps by going slowly. My brother removed a bunch of wood, and had the wood not been green, and I not been there to help, he would have wound up with a 20# bow, not a 60# one! 

And hickory is awsome. We spent an entire day making bows and arrows, all hickory.


----------



## kegan

Well, here's my new bow. Hickory, 70" long, about 80# at 27". Shoots WELL, especially at a distance. I made a new set of hunting arrow to go with it too. This is by far my best hunting bow yet. Hopefully I'll get something with her after Christmas. It can put a blunt arrow through a board at over 30 yards.


----------



## armyboy

kegan said:


> Well, here's my new bow. Hickory, 70" long, about 80# at 27". Shoots WELL, especially at a distance. I made a new set of hunting arrow to go with it too. This is by far my best hunting bow yet. Hopefully I'll get something with her after Christmas. It can put a blunt arrow through a board at over 30 yards.


thats a great looking bow. just wondering can you make a left handed bow about 55 LB?


----------



## kegan

armyboy said:


> thats a great looking bow. just wondering can you make a left handed bow about 55 LB?


i don't put shelves on my bows- just shoot off your knuckle. I may actually have a 55 bow though, why?


----------



## buckshot95

That bow is sweet and the arrows. i can't wait till in the morning i am going out. I'm not hunting with my recurve right know but in the fall i am taking iy out and in spring for turkey. can't wait I love my recurve!!!


----------



## kegan

Buckshot- Trad/primitive is addictive, isn't it? Wait until you start building your own arrows and other hunting materials, no better feeling than confidently walking into the woods with equipment you made knowing any deer/squirrel/turkey/rabbit within twenty yards is fair game:wink:!

Hye guys, sometime after the holiday I will be doing a Build-along on a $10 red oak board bow taht anyone can build, to show how easy/fast someone can get started into trad if they wanted to. How's that sound?


----------



## tylerolsen12

kegan said:


> Buckshot- Trad/primitive is addictive, isn't it? Wait until you start building your own arrows and other hunting materials, no better feeling than confidently walking into the woods with equipment you made knowing any deer/squirrel/turkey/rabbit within twenty yards is fair game:wink:!
> 
> Hye guys, sometime after the holiday I will be doing a Build-along on a $10 red oak board bow taht anyone can build, to show how easy/fast someone can get started into trad if they wanted to. How's that sound?


your bow looks awesome nice job 

i cant wait for the build along i think i am going to make one soon


----------



## Whitehair

Great looking bow there Kegan. God I love that hickory... Just felled a nice one myself...
Nice trade points aswell, how about some specs? Material?

Ill be watching for the build along...


----------



## Bowhunter500

Kegan... 

Your gunna wanna hurt me..

I told my moms fiance to save the skins.. had notes all over them.. 

But he ended up gettin rid of them!!!!  
Im really really sorry man!


----------



## kegan

Thanks guys. I talked with my parents, and they'll be going by Home Deopt some time in the next month or so. Once I get the board, I'll get started immediately. I'll show a simple hunting D bow, capable of shooting both up close and at a distance, how to back it for security, and maybe tip overlays, simple wrap grip, and a painted back. Anyhting special you guys want to know how to do? I was going to cover the basics- tillering, shaping with minimal tools, and then finishing, maybe some on arrow selection and shooting. You guys have any requests?

Whitehair- I know. Shame hickory never became as popular as Osage or yew- it's the toughest wood I've ever used, and it doesn't take alot of wood to make a trong bow. The points are made of circular saw blade, 2 1/2" long by 1 1/4" wide. Dunno how much they weigh. 

Bowhunter- Don't sweat it. At least you tried man!


----------



## Bowhunter005

*Anothere bow.*

Hey Kegan,
I have anothere brother who is just cravin a bow cause hes seen ours so he wants one .......are you open??? Imy bow shoots good thanks man your rock if alex says i havnt shot it i have while he was gone so yashe shoots good.... so ya get back to me about my oldest brothers bow and if youllmake it ill get measurments ans stuff like that for you its prob going to be the same as alexs so....

Thanks,
Connor Sirovy


----------



## Bowhunter500

So ya kegan can you do that? lol

I think my little brother has a fetish with the phrase.. "so ya"

Haha my brother is actually interested in bowhunting. He has seen me shoot bows but would rather go traditional rather than the compound way of hunting. But its up to you if you want to make one. If not.. no biggy! haha


----------



## kegan

Sure. If you guys can get me some measurements, I'll see what I can do! I'll see if I can find your address.


----------



## Iron Mike

kegan said:


> Thanks guys. I talked with my parents, and they'll be going by Home Deopt some time in the next month or so. Once I get the board, I'll get started immediately. I'll show a simple hunting D bow, capable of shooting both up close and at a distance, how to back it for security, and maybe tip overlays, simple wrap grip, and a painted back. Anyhting special you guys want to know how to do? I was going to cover the basics- tillering, shaping with minimal tools, and then finishing, maybe some on arrow selection and shooting. You guys have any requests?
> 
> Whitehair- I know. Shame hickory never became as popular as Osage or yew- it's the toughest wood I've ever used, and it doesn't take alot of wood to make a trong bow. The points are made of circular saw blade, 2 1/2" long by 1 1/4" wide. Dunno how much they weigh.
> 
> Bowhunter- Don't sweat it. At least you tried man!


I'm going to follow this.......I've read this whole thread and you do good work. I like your stuff.


----------



## kegan

Iron Mike- I'm going to go for LOTS of pictures, with basic explanations for it. "$15 Hunting Bow" should be enough to help anyone who wants to make a cheap, beautiful, fully capable bow with minimal tools, time, and materials. So far I'll be building it from the $10 red oak board, using just basic tools, backed with brown paper bags (yup- you can back a bow with a paper bag). The string will be paracord. Weighing a bow with a bathroom scale for those who don't have a bow scale. Final bow whould cost just under $15 and take two days (for drying on the glue). Anybody want a certain weight?

This is gonna be fun.


----------



## Iron Mike

kegan said:


> Iron Mike- I'm going to go for LOTS of pictures, with basic explanations for it. "$15 Hunting Bow" should be enough to help anyone who wants to make a cheap, beautiful, fully capable bow with minimal tools, time, and materials. So far I'll be building it from the $10 red oak board, using just basic tools, backed with brown paper bags (yup- you can back a bow with a paper bag). The string will be paracord. Weighing a bow with a bathroom scale for those who don't have a bow scale. Final bow whould cost just under $15 and take two days (for drying on the glue). Anybody want a certain weight?
> 
> This is gonna be fun.


Sweet. How about a 40-50 lb'er? or is that too much for a selfbow DIY?


----------



## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> Anybody want a certain weight?


How about we bump it up to 100#.. that bow would be amazing! lol


----------



## armyboy

kegan said:


> i don't put shelves on my bows- just shoot off your knuckle. I may actually have a 55 bow though, why?


oh im thinking i might like to try some long bow:wink:


----------



## kegan

Bowhunter- Hmmm... getting a 100# bow from a red oak board... naw, that's a challenge for another time:wink:. Though I do have a hickory stave seasoning...

Iron Mike- LOL- selfbows are wonderfully powerful creatures! You can build one in excess of 150#, in the case of the Old English Warbows. And this won't technically be a selfbow, but a backed bow. 40-50 is easy, I was actually thinking about 65-70#. I have two selfbows right now, one is 83# at 27", the other is 95# at 27". 

Armyboy- Hmm, I could send you one, but gimme a week or so and I'll show you how to make one to your specific tastes for $15!!


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## master hunter

how much would u charge me if i wanted to buy one of ur bows. or do u not sell them?


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## WOWcham

Just wanted to fill you guys in on my bow. Its curing there you have it happy new year.


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## kegan

Master- I dunno if I can over AT, we'd have to PM IGluIt4U. Besides- I'm gonna show everyone how to make their own for $15, minimal tools, and two days time!

WOW- sweet, what wood?


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## No.1 Hoyt

an oak board makes a fine bow. I have made one from it and i am in the process of making one. Kegans build along should be sweet. i cant wait.


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## master hunter

kegan said:


> Master- I dunno if I can over AT, we'd have to PM IGluIt4U. Besides- I'm gonna show everyone how to make their own for $15, minimal tools, and two days time!
> 
> WOW- sweet, what wood?


sweet i was just wondering cause i hav never shot anything but a compound.


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## WOWcham

> WOW- sweet, what wood?


Birch, hickory and maple heart wood.


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> Bowhunter- Hmmm... getting a 100# bow from a red oak board... naw, that's a challenge for another time:wink:. Though I do have a hickory stave seasoning...
> 
> Iron Mike- LOL- selfbows are wonderfully powerful creatures! You can build one in excess of 150#, in the case of the Old English Warbows. And this won't technically be a selfbow, but a backed bow. 40-50 is easy, I was actually thinking about 65-70#. I have two selfbows right now, one is 83# at 27", the other is 95# at 27".
> 
> Armyboy- Hmm, I could send you one, but gimme a week or so and I'll show you how to make one to your specific tastes for $15!!


if you have one that would be great. ( not good at making things)


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## kegan

Master- It may take some practice, but shooting (and making) your own longbow is eally pretty easy. Two days to make a D hunting bow, and a week's practice can make you profficient

No.1 Hoyt can tell you from experience!

WOW- Sweet- all terrific woods!

armyboy- What draw? so far I have 55# LH- and I might have a bow that meets those requirements.


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> Master- It may take some practice, but shooting (and making) your own longbow is eally pretty easy. Two days to make a D hunting bow, and a week's practice can make you profficient
> 
> No.1 Hoyt can tell you from experience!
> 
> WOW- Sweet- all terrific woods!
> 
> armyboy- What draw? so far I have 55# LH- and I might have a bow that meets those requirements.


27-28" thanks


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## kegan

armyboy said:


> 27-28" thanks


PM IGluItU so he can send me your address, I have a recurve that meets that (look back at some of the pages for "Rejuvination"- that is 55# at about 27").


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> PM IGluItU so he can send me your address, I have a recurve that meets that (look back at some of the pages for "Rejuvination"- that is 55# at about 27").


ok thanks


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## kegan

*$15 Hunting Bow*

Okay, so I'll be getting the board some time this week. So, I figured to start off with a list of materials that we will need:

1........ Red oak board, 1"x2"x6' Home Depot or Lowes has them for $10 (the straightest grained board you can find!)
6.5'..... of parachute cord (you can get 100' from cabela's for $4)
2........ paper grocery bags- just ask for paper instead of plastic next time

That settles what will make your bow, not what to make it with:

-TitebondII, for gluing on the backing
-A tool to remove alot of wood (handplane, drawknife, coarse rasp, even a hatchet if you're extremely careful, or a power saw if you have your parents help you out, you don't want to take too much off and wind up with a 20# bow!)
-A tool to remove fine amounts of wood (a rasp, cabinet scraper, your knife held at a 90 degree angle to the board, even coarse sandpaper)
-Vice or C clamp
-Work space. A bench would be prefered, but a picnic table or any other sturdy table will work- just as long as you have permision, you can even just put a 2"x8" between two chairs)

To finish the bow, 150 and 220 grit sandpaper, a Sharpie, strong thread, and a flexible waterproof finish of some sort, like polyurethane, paste wax (floor wax), even repeated coats of linseed will be needed. Deer fat, if applied enough times, also makes an excellent waterproofing agent. You might want a grip of some sort, something like old leather that would give you more of a grip on the handle. this is just the general list, and might vary a little as we go along.


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## master hunter

*????*

keagan wat kind of broad heads do u shoot??


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## kegan

master hunter said:


> keagan wat kind of broad heads do u shoot??


Trade points of my own design. The ones on my current big game arrows are 2 1/2" long, 1 1/4" wide, and made of an old circular saw blade.


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## buckshot95

hey kegan: just wondering do you rivet your broadheads!!! thankss


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan that bow you made is sweet. i like it. Those arrows are nice and those no-notch points are cool. gotta stay legal


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## master hunter

kegan said:


> Trade points of my own design. The ones on my current big game arrows are 2 1/2" long, 1 1/4" wide, and made of an old circular saw blade.


cool i shoot shuttle T's just a little different jk lol.


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## kegan

Buckshot- yup- decided to try rivets on 'em this time- sooo much better!

David- Thanks. I really like not botehring to tie the points on, rivets are alot less maintnence.

Master- LOL, just a bit:wink:. In the past I shot Magnus Stingers and Zwickey's- both excellent points, but buying stuff is too expensive for me!


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## master hunter

the only reason i can shoot shuttle T's is because my dad used to be a staff shooter for bowtech and now is one for alpine and he knows a lot of ppl that give him free or cheep stuff, and i get a discount at sportsmans ware house because he works there.


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## armyboy

master hunter said:


> the only reason i can shoot shuttle T's is because my dad used to be a staff shooter for bowtech and now is one for alpine and he knows a lot of ppl that give him free or cheep stuff, and i get a discount at sportsmans ware house because he works there.


can you buy me stuff?


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## master hunter

armyboy said:


> can you buy me stuff?


i am not sure i would hav to ask my dad and u would hav to giv me ur adress and money to buy it. but i would hav to see wat u wanted to by to see wat the discount would be.


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## tylerolsen12

master hunter said:


> i am not sure i would hav to ask my dad and u would hav to giv me ur adress and money to buy it. but i would hav to see wat u wanted to by to see wat the discount would be.


i am pretty sure you cant buy for someone els i know most retail stores discount is for family only and if you use it for other people besides like for the occasional gift or something you can get in to trouble


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## kegan

You could have family get you a discount, or you could just make stuff:wink:.

Here is my brother's first bow- 66" hickory flatbow. 60# at 26". A real shooter- it casts an 800+ grain arrow 30 yards with minimal elevation.


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## Bowhunter500

kegan said:


> You could have family get you a discount, or you could just make stuff:wink:.
> 
> Here is my brother's first bow- 66" hickory flatbow. 60# at 26". A real shooter- it casts an 800+ grain arrow 30 yards with minimal elevation.


HAHAHAHAHA I see twins Kegan!


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## kegan

Bowhunter500 said:


> HAHAHAHAHA I see twins Kegan!


What are you talking about? I'm much better looking:wink:!

Armyboy- I'll be getting your bow out soon, I've got some other stuff to send out as well!


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## armyboy

master hunter said:


> i am not sure i would hav to ask my dad and u would hav to giv me ur adress and money to buy it. but i would hav to see wat u wanted to by to see wat the discount would be.


i'll let you know when i need something:wink:


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## armyboy

archerykid12 said:


> i am pretty sure you cant buy for someone els i know most retail stores discount is for family only and if you use it for other people besides like for the occasional gift or something you can get in to trouble


he could give it to me as a gift and i could give him the money as a gift:wink:


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> What are you talking about? I'm much better looking:wink:!
> 
> Armyboy- I'll be getting your bow out soon, I've got some other stuff to send out as well!


thanks


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## tylerolsen12

armyboy said:


> he could give it to me as a gift and i could give him the money as a gift:wink:


ya but if he goes in and buys like three stabalizers a sight and stuff it will look suspicous


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## master hunter

archerykid12 said:


> i am pretty sure you cant buy for someone els i know most retail stores discount is for family only and if you use it for other people besides like for the occasional gift or something you can get in to trouble


ya thats wat i thought, but i just wanted to check for him anyway to be nice.

army boy- that means my dads work wont let me


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## master hunter

armyboy said:


> he could give it to me as a gift and i could give him the money as a gift:wink:


ya i asked my dad if i could do that and he said he doesnt want to get in trouble with his new boss. sorry man i wish i could:sad:


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## kegan

Sorry guys, I couldn't get the board yet. I can only get stuff when my parents are going by the place (Home Depot here). I'll see if I can get it this week though. Sorry.


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## kegan

*Old Ax Head Bow*

Well, for a bunch of reasons and a day off- I decided to do a build along. It's a general hunting longbow, here of hickory, made with nothing but an old ax head. For building a good durbale hunting bow, make it as unstressed as possible- a good heavy arrow (over 600 grains) and strong bow weight (55# or more) will give you more than enough power to kill most big game, even if the bow doesn't shoot over 180 fps. This bow will be my back up, and tests a new theory I have. These methods can be followed, if so desired, with any type of tool- as long a you go slowly. I chose an ax head to test both myself and this simple tool, and to show that you don't need much to make an excellent bow (the cord around the ax head was later removed, it is the future bowstring- a 7' section of paracord).

So, low stress. Since I'm using just an ax head, I'll use a small tree. It will be a D bow, so it can be small. But small trees are more rounded, so I will have to decrown, or flatten the back- making it more "board like". It will be 70" long for my 27" draw length (_for every increment above or below 28", add or remove twice that from a 72" bow_).

First, I select a good, small, knotlless, straight hickory (oak, locust, birch, maple, elm, mulberry, juniper, ash, pecan, apple, Osage, and any other dense hardwoods work well too). This will yield the least problems. I then cut around the base and push it over. I chose a tall young one, about four inches in diameter (it should be at least two and a half- I chose larger in the hopes of getting two staves). Large branches are easier, but I could locate none.


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## kegan

After the tree is dropped, we cut it to length. Remember, the final dimensions will be about 6', by 1 1/2" wide over most of the length, and less than an inch thick. So, I'll leave a little on now so we don't wind up with too little later. I cut the top off, giving me a seven foot section. I then move it to my work space.

My work space for this bow will be a large chunk or firewood on our patio. Here, I cut the bow to about my height (6') with a little on the ends for later. I save the end for a mallet for splitting. 

To split it, I pound my ax into the center of the stave, _from the top_. Attempting to split the entire length from the bottom could lead to run-offs, which means only one stave and alot of work. If you chose a smaller piece (such as a branch, do not split the middle, simply flatten the future belly side, which will be more knotted than the back- if there are any knots that is). If the branch is slightly ovular, then split it so the flatter sides become the backs. When I get the head far enough in, I put a branch in there to pound down. Holding one side of the projecting stick, I smack the other with my mallet. This all makes splitting easier.


----------



## kegan

Because I tried to initiall split from the middle, the top split is running more toward one side, so I had to meet it by splitting up from the bottom a short ways, cutting the fibers between the splits with my ax.

The stave on the left is too thin for a longbow, but will make a good short bow. Longer a bow, the thicker it needs to be to have the same weight. _This added physical weight makes the bow much more stable- perfect for hunting!_

I then decrown, or flatten, the back. Here, I go painfully slow, as any deep gouges could lead to firewood- not good. Hickory is very strong in tension (the pulling forces felt in the back of a bow), as are elm, Osage, and oaks. Proper care later on will make sure that, even if there are some minor violations, the final bow will hold and be a perfectly durable hunting weapon.

Decrowning leaves me with a flat back- this flat surface evenly distributes the stress over more area. A rounded back would force it all into the narrow ridge. I want a long lasting weapon from a small tree here, so I decrown it. Larger tree, from which more staves can be split, doesn't need flattening.

Once we have a flat surface that is about 1 1/4" to 1 1/2", we begin to square the sides a little- which will make it easier to get the belly parallel to the back. I don't remove too much, so the stave is still about 2" wide at this point.


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## kegan

Once the sides are narrowed and flattened, I have a two inch wide stave with a nice flattened back. Now, I begin to make the belly and back parallel- sorta like a crude "board". This will make the tapering easier.

*Always follow the grain. If the wood trists to the side, follow the twist. A bow that is forcefully straightened will not be as durable as a bow that is slightly "wavy". If there are knots, d not cut through them, but leave wood there to help strengthen them. If the staves undulates up and down, so must the back and belly. If it snakes from side to side, so must the width.*

Very important.

I then flatten the belly and make it parallel to the back. Once this is done, I cut it to it's final with. Holding it between my outstretched arms (which are exactly 6'), I remove two inched from the larger end (the length of the first two joints on my index finger). The stave is now a "primitive board" and cut to the final length (both ends, it should be reminded, are square and strong with no splits, if there were, these would have been removed beore the final length was cut).

We now move on to width. The final width, for a bow over 50# that bends it's entire length, should be about 1 1/2". This helps reduce stress, which not only makes it last longer, but the wood will not follow the string quite as much. Therefore, it will be faster and shoot farther.

My two fingers are roughly 1 1/2" wide, so I mark along the back how wide this is. Here you see why I left the bark on. In the spring and summer the bark peels off easily- but in the fall and winter the bark sticks fast. So, Iuse them as guides. My final width (along the entire lenght of the bow), will be just into the bark. I leave a little extra on now for the first side, as I don't know if the second side will gouge or not. This would all be easier with a vice, ruler, and a drawknife, but with jsut an ax I simply have to go slightly more slowly.


----------



## kegan

Once the final width is secured, I can now remove the final bit of bark- which only lies at the edges and can be simply removed by pushing my ax under it. Now I have my width, I can narrow the tips. Lighter tips leave more of the energy stored in the bow for moving the arrow, instead of using it to move the tips. I make the tips about 1/2" to 3/8" wide, about the width or my little finger. I taper the last eight or so inches (about the length of my hand). I could go as far down s 12" for tapering, but narrow limbs warp when they dry, and the wood we're using is still green. I mark it with charcoal (from the nearby fire pit) and cut them to shape

I now begin tapering the belly. The center is marked (I hold the bow between my arms and mark the center of my chest). The tips will be about 1/4" to 3/8" thick, about the thickness of my little finger. The handle area will be about 3/4" thick, about the thickness of my thumb. I mark it off with charcoal and cut it to thickness. I purposely leave it slightly thick- as wood removed from the belly has a great impact on final draw weight. _Go slowly here, as little as an 1/8" too much of wood can mean the difference of 10#._ I then *floor tiller* the bow by bending one limb at a time against the ground/floor. Here, we see the handle area is bending too much, and the limb is too stiff. The other limb of the bow bent the same way. Luckily, there were no weak spots where too much wood had been removed, so no hinges. _Hinges are what break bows!_


----------



## kegan

I then remove wood from where it is too stiff- the mid and outter limb. I go slowly- as I am careful to avoid hinges. Gentle tapering and careful; work here will garuntee no hinging, while carelessness and being hurried is what does. We now have a perfect tiller in one limb. I go slowly with the other until it bends the same way with the same amount of force. Avoid bending the limbs more than 4" or so, as this will cause excess set in green wood.

We now have the bow roughed out and floor tillered, so I can sti back and realx as it dries in a warm dry spot. All of this took from 10:00 to about 3:30 with frequent breaks for shooting my other bow, lunch, getting the mail, and jsut relaxing. _Even with just an old ax head, total actual working time was only about 3 hours- and that's from tree to almost-finished-bow!_ 

We have a good solid hunting bow, 70" long 1 1/2" or slightly more wide, about 3/4" thick at the grip tapering to about 1/4" at the tips. The bow bends evenly, with most of the bend being in the mid limbs. A slightly stiffer grip will yield a faster bow, with less hand shock and a much smoother draw. Projected weight: over 70#, with 75-80# being desired for my back up bow. The wood is still green, so bends much more easily than dry wood. Once dried, I can always remove more wood to lgihten it up- I can't put wood back however.

When the bow is dried I will put up more picturesof final tillering and then finishing.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thank you kegan for this awesome build along hopefull i can use it. YOur brothers bow is awesome. i love it


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> thank you kegan for this awesome build along hopefull i can use it. YOur brothers bow is awesome. i love it


You're welcome! I hope you can use it, that's the whole point- to show how to build a simple bow. And to show it's not that hard.

He's finishing up another one. When he gets done I'll get pics up.


----------



## kegan

*Notes on drying...*

Now that the bow is roughed out, it needs to be cured. Best place to cure most woods is in a warm, dry, well circulated room- in the summer the bow can simply be left outside on dry days and brought in when it rains. Some woods, like Osage, locust, and hornbeam should be left to cure more slowly or the will check, or crack from drying. Osage is the worst offender, and you may even want to paint a thin layer of wood glue on the back and ends. 

We watn the mositure content to be aroun 8-10%. A moisture meter works wonders for this, but they are pricey. So, give it a week or two until the bow can be held to your cheek and feel almost warm, instead of cool from the moisture.

So far I have cut the tree down, flattened the back, roughed out the dimensions, and began tillering. The bow is quite rough and wet, and once it is dry I will scrape it with the ax head, sand it with some sandstone, then complete tillering and the rest of the finishing. There's not more to it than that. Bow making can be spit into three parts: _roughing out_, _tillering_, and _finishing_. That's it.


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## No.1 Hoyt

this is great I really want to do this. I SEEMS simple. i think i could do it. I love the simplicity.


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> this is great I really want to do this. I SEEMS simple. i think i could do it. I love the simplicity.


You might want to add a rasp- I'm not looking forward to final shaping and tillering with just an ax head and rocks.

Other than that, yeah- shaping a bow with a hatchet is pretty easy.


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## Whitehair

Nice job bro. 
Ill second the rasp, cabinet scraper, or even a good knife for final tillering...


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## No.1 Hoyt

i have a rasp and lots of files. im getting a drawknife soon.

I want to learn how to decrown. it seems daunting

i havent worked on my bow for a while. but i am ready to tiller it it should be done soon


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## kegan

Aye- cabinet scrapers are awsome for making it smooth, even, and pretty

Drawknives help alot- good for reducing alot of wood.

Decrowning isn't hard- as you can see I just go at it with my ax head. Just avoid gouges. You're pretty much just making a natural board- so don't sweat it:wink:!

Watch green wood though- dry wood may be harder to work, but is less likely to gouge. Go slowly, especially on the back.


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## buckshot95

Ok I got a stave that has been drying about 2 weeks. It is warm I was wondering if I can just start or not. How long do you let your bows dry. THANKS ALOT!!!!!!!:wink:


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## No.1 Hoyt

i dont know as much as Kegan but you can start working on it. After roughing it out and floor tillerring it lay in a warm part of your house for about 2-3 weeks. In kegans buildalong he said "when it almost feels warm to the touch"

then finish tillerring it and final shaping/finishing


I think he explains this in his buildalang. He uses green wood

i would wait till kegan chimes in though. i am new to this


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## CA_Rcher12

Nice area you live in Kegan.:secret:


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## armyboy

hey kegan, i was just wondering if you send that that bow to me yet?


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## kegan

bcukshot- you can start now- jsut wait until is is dry (I'll show how to do that later) to finish tillering. Rough it out and floor tiller it. Final tillering and finishing is what you have to wait till it's dry for. 

CA- thanks

armyboy- I'm getting it out tonight.


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## buckshot95

Ok Thanks!!!!kegan i will ruff it out tonight.


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> bcukshot- you can start now- jsut wait until is is dry (I'll show how to do that later) to finish tillering. Rough it out and floor tiller it. Final tillering and finishing is what you have to wait till it's dry for.
> 
> CA- thanks
> 
> armyboy- I'm getting it out tonight.


ok thanks, can't weight


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## Bowhunt4life

Do you think that one of your hand crafted bows would have enough knock down power to kill like a deer :walk::icon_1_lol::moose:epsi:


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## kegan

Bowhunt4life said:


> Do you think that one of your hand crafted bows would have enough knock down power to kill like a deer :walk::icon_1_lol::moose:epsi:


I'm shooting an 80#+ longbow with 840 grain arrows with razor sharp two blade trade, designed for lethality. I bet it could out-perform your compound man:wink:. It can put a blunt arrow trhough a board at over forty yards. 

Wooden bows have been taking big game for alot longer than production bows:wink:. A 30# wooden bow with wooden arrows could kill a moose as dead as a doornail if you know how to use it.


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> I'm shooting an 80#+ longbow with 840 grain arrows with razor sharp two blade trade, designed for lethality. I bet it could out-perform your compound man:wink:. It can put a blunt arrow trhough a board at over forty yards.
> 
> Wooden bows have been taking big game for alot longer than production bows:wink:. A 30# wooden bow with wooden arrows could kill a moose as dead as a doornail if you know how to use it.


shoot the moose it the brains and run:wink::wink::wink::wink:


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## kegan

armyboy said:


> shoot the moose it the brains and run:wink::wink::wink::wink:


Nope- hit the heart at four yards. You don't have to be that strong if you're an excellent hunter (like Native Americans).


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## CA_Rcher12

kegan said:


> I'm shooting an 80#+ longbow with 840 grain arrows with razor sharp two blade trade, designed for lethality. I bet it could out-perform your compound man:wink:. It can put a blunt arrow trhough a board at over forty yards.


Hard cams on a #60er should make them equal, depending on the design.



kegan said:


> Nope- hit the heart at four yards. You don't have to be that strong if you're an excellent hunter (like Native Americans).


I'm not going that close to a moose.


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## kegan

CA- due to the bow's design, and the arrows weight, it would take more than that- the English and Cherokee could skewer a heavily armored soldier at over a hundred yards. The key to a longbows power is in its ability to use extremely heavy arrows well. The Penobscot and Bassa should also be added to the list.


----------



## kegan

*Update*

The bow is drying nicely on top of the fireplace. It should take a while more, as the bow is still thick (intending for a strong weight) and there air is still. But I've been working on the second stave I got from that very tree. I might cheat and put it in my bow drier though, and it would only take a few days. 

It is a 55" recurve. The wood is pretty messed up, so this is more of just a test to see how good of a bowyer I am. I'm going to have to sinew it in order to keep it together and give it a bump in performance, but I only have four deer leg tendons- so I'll be cutting it close. It also needs to dry though.


----------



## kegan

*$15 Hunting bow*

Finally got my hands on a piece of red oak. It's a 1x2, making it really 1 1/2" by 3/4". I got a 7'6" piece for about $7. I chose the straightest grained piece, as a bow requires such straight grain. It has minimal run offs, but I will still back it for safety.

I start by cutting it to length. For this one I will leave it 6' for a 28" draw (we want to reduce stress- keeping it long is one way to help, the others will be covered shortly). 

I then mark eight inches form the tips- this will be our width taper. We'll leave it 1 1/2" wide over the whole length excpet for the last 8" to reduce stress- as wider limbs also help reduce stress. 

I then center the 1/2" nocks and use a yard stick to mark the taper. I use a spring hand clamp to hold it in place, but this is unnecessary. I draw this outline on both limbs.


----------



## kegan

With the outline secured, I use a hatchet to get down to an 1/8" from the lines. This allows to me remove the final bits slowly with care using rasps. AVOID GOUGES IN GRAIN.

The tips would be rough, so I use a farriers rasp (with metal teeth) to hog off most of the left over "junk" and then use a finer rasp to clean it up. This same procedure of hatchet-farriers rasp-finer rasp will be used for the thickness. It should ne noted though, oly one type of rsp is necessary. I have done lots of bows with just the finer rasp.

For this bow, most of the work will be done with just these three tools- a hatchet, course rasp, and finer rasp. You could actually just use the hatchet help perpendicular to the board to scrape off the wood instead of using a rasp, but it does save time. I'll cover scrapers later.


----------



## kegan

With the tips now roughed out (you needn't cut the nocks yet) I can get to tapering the thickness. First, I mark the center of the bow (36"). I then measure 2 1/4" in both directions from this center mark. This will be the handle.

Following the rough dimensions of my favorite hunting bow, which pulls 80#, I will leave the center a full 3/4" thick, and taper the tips 5/16" thick. Due to the wider limbs, this will probabaly be too heavy, and will have to be reduced later. The bow will have a full, perfect arc-of-circle tiller (meaning it will bend in a near perfect semi-circle instead of having a slightly stiff spot in the middle). An arc-of-circle tiller reduces stress, and my red oak board doesn't have the most perfect grain.

Like on the tips I use a straight edge to draw the lines.


----------



## kegan

Now the actual roughing out of thickness. I use a SHARP hatchet (it need be sharp) and _slowly_ go down toward the lines. Go slow, and *avoid gouges in the grain*. Once I get close on both limbs, I go to the raps.

I use a special set up when I'm working bows inside- an elevated vice and a block held in another vice. The block provides support so I don't have the bow bending down whne I apply pressure. a second vice isn't necessary, but I would dare to say a block of some sort is much desired.

The thickness is then roughed down with the farriers rasp- leaving it _rough_. I then use the finer rasp and then scrape it. You can use a kknife, as shown, or a cabinet scraper- which I prefer. You'll want the belly as falt as possible, and parallel top the back- both of which will help reduce stress in the bow.


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## kegan

Once the limbs are reduced to thickness, and flattened, I then begin to lightly floor tiller the bow by setting the bottom tip on the floor and gently applying pressure to the grip section. Watch the bend, and note the feel of how hard it is to move the limb. Don't press hard, as this is a delicate process. Turn the bow over and judge the other limb. Too stiff? Not stiff enough? If the second limb is too stiff, use the fine rasp or the scraper to remove some wood from the stiffer limb. *Do not bend the bow more than a few inches.*

Once the limbs are pretty even, we will back it with a brown grocery bag. Open the bag at the seems (avoid tearing) and you will get a large sheet. Use your bow as a guide and demove to full width strips. The strips should be about 40" long, enough to back each limb and overlap at the handle.

Size the back thinly with glue. Here I use TitebondII as it is waterproof and easy to use. Once you get a line down the length, use your fingers or a small brush to smear it over the entire width.


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## kegan

Gently apply the backing strip on one limb. Use both hands and evenly falttne it out. At the end where the two will overlap, apply some glue on the backing to hold the second.

Apply the second like the first, and clamp it. Here I put it upside down on a board and apply pressure and clamps along the length. It realized however, that a better way would be to clamp the bow in the center, where the two overlap (make sure to use shims to pretocet the wood) and then pull one strip taught, clamping it firly at the ends. YOu would do the same for the second limb. Flatten any ridges that would occur and wrap the whole thing with either rope or gauze stetch bandages. Allow to sit for 24 hours.


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## No.1 Hoyt

wow kegan that great i love it. this should really help out people who want to learn. THe build along is great.

heres some pics of my bow i am tillerring now. It a red oak board too.


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## No.1 Hoyt

hey kegan what weight are you aiming for?


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## kegan

*Day Two*

Thanks David

Okay, now that the backing is set, we can start tillering. Tillering is simply balancing the limbs. Remove wood from parts that don't bend enough and avoid parts that bend too much. That's it.

If you removed wood evenly from both, it should be pretty even. Start by using a razor blade to trip the excess backing at the edges, then sand the edges to clean it up.

Now, a note on the tillering stick. You'll need on if you want a good, even tiller. This will yeild a low stress, hard hitting, long lasting bow. There are alot of variations, but I use a simple slat of ash (the wood doesn't matter), with notches to hold the tillering string (a strong long rope) every four inches. David's, above, is a much nicer one. Anyhitng to prop between the bow and the string to show you the bend will work.


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## kegan

Now for the nocks. I use simple "half-pin nocks". I haven't seen them anywhere else. They are really easy and don't take up alot of mass. Simply measure half an inch down, and halfway in on the right side (looking at the back). Cut to the vertical line with a finer saw, then spit it out with a knife. Takes four seconds. Works just as well as "better" ones.

Now the tillering string. I use paracord, any strong rope should work. It should be about a 7' long, with a loop knot at one end and a timber hitch, or bowyer's knot, at the other end. it should be loose when put on the bow- the bow should NOT BE STRUNG. This string is just to test the bend, not to launch an arrow.


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## kegan

Now we put the bow in the vice and prop the tillering stick between the bow and the long string. Here, the tips are too thick. I use a white string to simulate braced string, for better check. I then move the string higher, to get a better check- still too stiff, and the left limb has a stiff spot in the middle.

I then use the rasp to drop the tips down to a perfect 5/16" and check the bend. The last photo shows a better bend. Always start with little bends, then mose slowly into bigger bends. 

I'll get to the ret of the pics tomarrow, and hopefully finish up.


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## Varik

I have finished my first bow. It came out pretty tall, I think it was 63 inches, but I'm not sure, I didn't get the measurement. Only problem is, it came out quite a bit underweight. 30# isn't much. Any suggestions or tips on how to fix that next time?

I'll post pictures tonight.


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## kegan

Varik said:


> I have finished my first bow. It came out pretty tall, I think it was 63 inches, but I'm not sure, I didn't get the measurement. Only problem is, it came out quite a bit underweight. 30# isn't much. Any suggestions or tips on how to fix that next time?
> 
> I'll post pictures tonight.


Not tall at all- pretty short actually. The best bows I've made are almost 6' long. 

To make it strong, leave it wide and "thick", reducing wood slowly until you reach the desired weight. Tonight I will get to tillering, where i will show you how to get what weight you want, and a perfect tiller. The bow pictured pulled 55# with the long string at almost brace height- projecting to one strong bow. Go slow, and don't get excited. A longbow that is 3/4" at the handle and 5/16" at the tips could easily draw over 80#, especially if 1 1/2" wide over msot of its length. Follow the build alongs, the board bow is doing especially well.


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## No.1 Hoyt

80# on a red oak board wow

my bow i am making is from a read oak board but mine is 2" wide and 66" ntn.

nice build along i really like it


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## Varik

Here are some pictures


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## kegan

Varik- Nice one! Especially for your first. Few things though: is the wood fully seasoned? How high is the brace height? and the limbs are bending too much near the handle, not enough midlimb. You can increase the weight by GENTLY stringing the bow backwards and heating the belly. Let it cool, heat it again. Repeat four or five times. This should increase it to about 45# or so. More if you let it season, and it will shoot farther if you lower the brace to about 5". 

On to the bow!

Final tillering. Leaving the bow braced, we use the tilelring stick again and test the bend. Go slow, and watch for hinges (spots bending too much). Here you can see it is bending perfectly (which is how it should if you worked on getting brace tiller perfect). Minimal work will be required here, just touch ups. 

Once you get the tiller perfect, and gauge the weight (put the bow in the vice and put a hook scale on the string, or using a spring bathroom scale, push the bow down with a board on the string pushing into the scale). Mine pulled 65# after being strung at brace fir a day to let the wood become "prestressed". This way, even a poor grained board has some value as a bow. The straighter the grain, the stronger the bow, the worse the grain, the weaker the bow- keep this in mind when trying to predict the weight.

Once you know the weight (if it is too high, remove evenly from both limbs till you get the weight at the desired draw length) and good tiller, you can dow whatever artistic work you want on the back. Here, I use a Sharpie to draw vines on the back. 

Once all this is done, go about snading it. Use light grit- don't mess the weight up. I don't mind the tool marks. They let you know it was hand made. As long as it is smooth, I'm happy.

That's all I can gdo tonight- I'll get the rest tomarrow. Sorry.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Varik said:


> Here are some pictures


thats a really nice bow. It looks like it bending too much at the fades. on the right limb it looked hinged on the right limb about 1/3 out. Its a nice bow i like it


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## kegan

Now let's make a string. You can use your paracord and tie two loop knots at the end, but with this bow, I've found making a simple string is better. It's very easy, and takes only a few minutes.

You'll need some sort of thread. Modern dacron can be bought pretty cheaply, it's about $9 for a roll tha will yield about 9-10 string. You can also use artifcial sinew, but it won't last too long. Multiply your bow weight by four, and divide this by the strength of the individual strands to get the number of strands Round to the nearst whole, even number. For example, a 50# bow with artificial sinew of 40#:

50 x4= 200/ 40= 5= 6 strands

We wind this many (6) strands around two nails six or so inches farther apart than the length of your bow. so for a 72" bow, you would wind up a 78" string. 

The end that has the loose threads is cut from the nail, and the loop at the other end is held between two nails that are twice as far apart as the length as you desired loops (so between 3" and 4"). Hold them tightly and serve them with a tough thread. Here, I use awl thread.

The you pull it around a single nail and serve the two threads that make up below the loop, binding them together. 

The other end is splti into three groups as evan as you can get them, and braid them together. They needn't be tight until the end. When you finsih the braid, melt the very tips together and tie a bowyer's not. 

You'll want to lightly round the edges of the nocks on your bow, as to avoid having them get cut and the string breaking on you.


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## kegan

Once the bow is strung up with your new string and the bottom tied off, you may want to serve it. Here, I'm using artificial sinew and need to. Unless your nocks are really rough, modern Dacron and other matierals such as these don't really need them if you use good nocks on your arrows. 

Now, you may or may not want to add a handle build up. Here, I add two pieces of top grain leather, glued together and onto the bow with Titebond II. Leather bends, wood doesn't. So use something soft. This will also absorb some shock that seems to come from beginners' first bows.

Once the glue has set, trim it to shape with a razor blade and round the back edges with a rasp and sandpaper. Makes it easier to shoot. The follow up by sanding off the edges of the leatehr to make it pretty.


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## kegan

Now we get to finishing.

Shoot it a couple times, check the tiller. If this is to be a hunting bow, you'llwant to glue a piece of leaterh onto the side, where the arrow hits, to keep it quiet. For small, thin leather strike plates, I like a small "tear drop" shape. Saves leather. 

If you have a draw shorter than 28", for every incrememnt of an inch under 28", take that much from the tips of each limb, remaking the nock. This will also make it stronger, so you might have to retiller the bow. My bow is 70" for my 27".

If the bow still seems to have too much hand shock, try lightening up the tips by raping the last 12" down to make them more narrow. It reduces mass at the tips, whihc means more energy goes into the arrow, I reduced mine to about 3/8". A note though- using very light carbon arrows usually winds up worse hand shock than wooden arrows. 

If the bow is too light, take an inch from each tip- should increase the weight about 5-8#. Becareful though- you do not want the bow to fall under 68" for a 28" draw, and should be left braced for a few hours if you remove more than 2" from each limb. 

You may find yourself turning the bow slightly to the side, to allow the arorw to pass straighter to the target. Doing so allows one to shoot a broader range of arrows. You will also find this bow will shoot heavy arrows (600 or so grains). Uisng arrows of this weight wil allow you to take even the biggest game, as long as the bow pulls about 55+#. 

Once all is good, put a finish on it. I like floor wax. it's waterproof, doesn't take long, and works well.

Here the finished bow. 70" long, 73# @ 27". 1 1/2" wide over the entire length except for the last 7", which taper to light 3/8" nocks. It is 3/4" thick at the grip, and about 5/16" at the tips. It shoots WELL. It has earned the title of "Hunting Bow" without trouble. Took three days, about ten hours (it's cold in the shop). Once the bow is brought to dimensions and tillered, most of the time is spent fine tuning and getting it ready for the feild. This bnow shoots as well as my 80# with thick string and anrrow tips with the smae arrows with half as much time spent.

So there you have it. If you have any questions, just PM me. I'll be glad to help.


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## Bowhunt4life

hey can you buy the supplies at like a local hardware store


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## ShOrT StIcK

that is sweet i am working on a bow and should have it up in a couple of days.


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## buckshot95

Sorry about this the last post about i am working on a bow that is me i was still signed in on my dads name and forgot to change it. Buckshot95


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## kegan

Bowhunt- yup, tools, glue, the board, and the string. You can get the bag from the grocery store, but the only I don't know if they sell stuff for the string or the handle. 

buckshot- sweet! can't wait


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## No.1 Hoyt

wow kegan thar build along is really great. i love it. very informative.

I should be done pretty soon. i am a slow worker so maybe in a week.


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> wow kegan thar build along is really great. i love it. very informative.
> 
> I should be done pretty soon. i am a slow worker so maybe in a week.


Thanks. Can't wait to see it done! 

I'm working on another one, the recurve mentioned earlier. toying with idea of sinew backing it, but I would really like to see if I could get away with a selfbow:wink:. "Abused Hickory", its already got a name.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Nice i cant wait to see that recurve. I love recurves. i want to build one.

I am going to cut down a hickory soon so maybe i can make a recurve from that. if i back it with linen i recrve it first and then put the backing on right?
Do i tller it and then recurve it or recurve then tiller?


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## kegan

I gotta dry it, the finish tilering- maybe back it.

If you're leaving it at least 60", I wouldn't bother backing it. But as soon as you cut the tree down, I would rough it out- leaving the tips full width, and begin tillering it (to brace hieght). Once it is bending evenly, I would then use dry heat to recurve one end, let it sit on the form for a day, and repeat. Hickory pulls out a little when bent, but they should stick pretty well. I would recurve them green, as dry wood needs to be steamed or boil which takes longer. Green wood is less likely to break and likes to bend more. Let the bow season- slightly tillered and recurved, then go back and tiller it again. If you must back it, back it after the bow has seasoned completely, and after you've recurved it.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Sounds good.

Now i will have to try it

I want to make this as short as possible. How short can i make it if it pulls about 45-55. It will probably have a crown but i may try to decrown it.

i know for a longbow it would have to be 56" for a 28" draw. What would so how long should i make it.

o ya it will be backed with linen.


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## kegan

For a 28" draw, for longbows I wouldn't go under 66"

For a recurve, I would stick around 60". After being recurved, deflexed, and then braced, it will be alot shorter. 55" would work, but these bows are tempermental.


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## Varik

Question:

I have a very short draw 26.5-ish " Can anyone help me out with the measurements to make a bow with a fair amount of poundage 50# or more.


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## kegan

Varik- Is that your draw on a compound, or your actual draw (with your fingers?). I have a finger draw of 27", so you can use the dimensions I gave above.

If, however, your gar is really about 25", your bow (if you want a simple D bow, without a narrowed wooden handle), make it 66" long, 1 1/2" wide over the entire length, except for the last 8", which taper down to 3/8" nocks. At the center, make it about 5/8" thick for the middle four inches, tapering to 1/4" thick at the tips. Make sure it isn't thinner than this. If you follow these dimesnions, you hsould get a good tiller (just watch for thin and stiff spots). If it is too light, shorten it an inch from each limb.

So:

66" long. It should have no more than a 5 1/2" brace hieght. 

1 1/2" wide for the center 50", with the last 8" on each end, tapering to 3/8" wide nocks. 

5/8" thick at the middle 4", tapering straight to 1/4" thick at the tips.

Remember that the wood should be good and dry (brace it- if it follows the string- stays bet- it is too wet). And once it is dry, it should be left strung for 24 hours to let the wood settle in before continue, or even drawing it. Do not cut a handle inot it, but if the center is too thin, glue pieces of leather on to it to build it up. Cutting into the bow will weaken it considerably and it will break.


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## Varik

I'm not sure if that is my finger draw or compound. 

To find your finger draw you just find your wingspan and divide by 2.5, isn't that correct?


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## kegan

Varik said:


> I'm not sure if that is my finger draw or compound.
> 
> To find your finger draw you just find your wingspan and divide by 2.5, isn't that correct?


I don't know about that- if that were the case I would have a 24.4" draw. To find your finger draw, hold your bow in your hand, and place an arrow against the bow. Gripping the nock between your index and middle finger, with your ring finger up and hooked as well (like you were drawing a bow string with the standard three finger draw), bring the bow up, drawing the arrow til your middle finger rests in the corner of your mouth (note the full draw pictures above). Your left arm will be bent slightly at the elbow, and you will slightly quartering to the target. Whatever feels most comfortable for you will dictate your full draw. It seems you have it if your full draw photo.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan its been a few days since your last bow were another? I need to get goin on mine but i am a slow worker so i get it done eventually

i know you have seen it but some other people might like it

here is my first knapped arrow head it is made from glass


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## kegan

Lol, I've got several in the works, most are drying though, so I can't do anyhting till they dry out. I've got a sinew backed recurve that I really want tp finish

That's a sweet point:wink:!


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## buckshot95

That is awesome No1.hoyt. I am tillering mine but i am working slow so i will get it don't one of these days. kegan can't wait till you get another one on here.:wink::wink:


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## PSE ROGUE

sweet bows


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## kegan

Buckshot- it should be dry enough to try and start tillering, so sometime in the coming week or so I should be able to finish it

PSE Rogue- thanks


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## master hunter

kegan since u ar sending my a bow, wat do u think i should use for arrows tips and broad heads?


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## kegan

master hutner- Points don't matter. This bow is lighter than I'm sued to hunting with, so a smaller, lighter head is needed- somthing about 100-125 grains. Fixed blade, cut on contact heads will be required- something like Zwickey Black Diamonds or Magnus Stingers should be fine. No chisel points and deifnately no expandables. Your arrows should come out to a finished weight of 450-500 grains when you're done. The material shouldn't matter, as long as they aren't too much longer than your draw, though I've shot an old carbon out of some of my bows and it is a full 32" long. I would use feathers, but I'm sure vanes will work. You'll probabaly just have to try what you have when it gets there. It is usually easier just to adjust your shooting than adjust your arrows if you follow most of the above (weight and boradhead size are the main requirements). Wooden bows allow more from the shooter than the gear- meaning that as long as it is close and they are consistent, you can do the rest. I've found this to be much easier than even modern longbows and recurves, which can be finicky and picky about arrows, and might not shoot accurately unless they are perfect. Shooting off your knuckle is truly an asset to a hunting archer.


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## buckshot95

ok kegan i can't wait to see it


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## buckshot95

I hope the pic works but i just got this don't today. It is my first time at making a bow rack. The first bow is a person then a bear and then my selfbow that i am working on. on the top is my buck i shot this year. and copule arrows.


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## tylerolsen12

buckshot95 said:


> View attachment 349106
> 
> 
> I hope the pic works but i just got this don't today. It is my first time at making a bow rack. The first bow is a person then a bear and then my selfbow that i am working on. on the top is my buck i shot this year. and copule arrows.


nice job buckshot i like the bows too


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## kegan

Nice bows! Can't wait to see your selfbow done!


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## No.1 Hoyt

Very nice Buckshot.

Here is a bow i whiped out.

It is made from a scrap piece of oak osk so i found a use. It is backed with brown paper bags.

It is 38"ntn and 39" overall

It pulls 30#@16"


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## kegan

What a wicked little bow

If you're having trouble with aiming, try Native form- draw the bow horizital, anchoring in front of your chest. The draw is shorter, and you aim completely instinctively at the target. Works great, especially with the pinch release.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thanks Kegan iw ill try that.


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## No.1 Hoyt

if i get good enough at 10 yd or closer i will take this squirrel hunting


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## kegan

I wouldn't- I go all out on tree rats. They deserve no mercy!


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## kegan

Here is the half finished recurve. It lacks power and cast, so I'm going to wait ill next year to get mroe sinew to give it a good strong backing. Short bows are harder to get to shoot fast because they lack the proper working wood. Longer bows are superior in more than one way.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats awesome. i love recurves they are sexy.

Youre right squirrels deserve no mercy i have a few acres behind my house that belongs to the parish but no one cares if i go back there. its crawling with gray squirrels. i hate grays they never stay still. I have chances with foxes but grays will be hard. 

It is so thick in those woods its hard to get around sometimes but you can get really close so who knows i might get a few.


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## kegan

I have to laminate a new belly on or build up the sinew on the back to give it some power. 

Tree rats are the mosst fun shooting ever!


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## Rickyford

Can you please tell me how to start makeing one and where you get the wood your bow are realy cool please let me know and how much do you charge to make bow for someone?


Ricky


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## Rickyford

What do I do to get one from you can you mail it where do you live?

Ricky


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## kegan

I live in PA. I don't really make bows for money, but give away bows that I've already made. It would be better to make your own bows, as you can have any bow you want for just a few dollars.

Go back to page 12. I cover making a board longbow. ALot of woods work well if you make them from trees, boards are a little harder to come by. Oak (any type), hickory (nearly indestructible, but it needs to be dry, about 9% moisture content), mulberry, Osage orange, dogwood, elm, birch, ash, juniper, maple, walnut, sassafras, and just about any fruit bearing tree that can yeild a straight stave. For boards, get the straightest grained board you can (the straighter the better, more durbale, and stronger the bow) of the above woods. Tropical hardwoods work well too. I cut my trees off our propery, but boards can be purchased from Lowes, Home Depot, and any lumber dealer. Remember- you want STRAIGHT GRAIN.

Make it 72" long for a 28" draw, and for every incrment of an inch under that, take twice from the bow length. Make it 1 1/2" wide in the center 36", tapering straight to 3/8" wide tips. The bow should be 3/4" thick, tapering to 5/16" thick at the tips (this will yield an extremely strong bow, so you will have to gently reduce the weight). Follow the instructions for tillering and breaking it on page 12.


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## Rickyford

Cool im in Maryland.
Can you mail me a good hunting bow about 50pound draw or a bow so I have one to look at to help me make one?

I can pay the shipping depending on how much it is so can you please let me know


Ricky


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## buckshot95

that bow is sweet kegan. i love the looks of a recurve selfbow.


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## Rickyford

Ad is the wood you have 1 1/2 inches wide and 3/4 thick? or the other way?
And can I use any oak or dose it have to be red oak?
I have lots and lots and lots of oak wood 1 inch thick and how ever wide I cut it will that work?

Please let me know 

Ricky


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## kegan

I don't have any 50# bows. Sorry. 

Yes, 1 1/2" wide, 3/4" thick. Any oak will work, with white being the best. As long as the grain is STRAIGHT. Hickory, walnut, ash, and elm all work well too.

Buckshot- yeah, but recurve bows are not reallly worth it. Alot of work to recurve them, and they aren't as good as longbows for most practical purposes. The Native Americans and the Turks were the only ones to really need them. This one is just to test some ideas.


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> I don't have any 50# bows. Sorry.
> 
> Yes, 1 1/2" wide, 3/4" thick. Any oak will work, with white being the best. As long as the grain is STRAIGHT. Hickory, walnut, ash, and elm all work well too.
> 
> Buckshot- yeah, but recurve bows are not reallly worth it. Alot of work to recurve them, and they aren't as good as longbows for most practical purposes. The Native Americans and the Turks were the only ones to really need them. This one is just to test some ideas.


hey kegan, i love i bow!!!!!!!:wink::wink::wink::wink::wink: i went to a 3d shoot and everyone was amazed. what kind of wood is it? do you remember? thanks


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## Rickyford

Well do you have anyother bow close in draw weight like 45-50-60?


Ricky


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## kegan

Armyboy- glad you like it! It's hickory, with natural walnut stain (as in I rubbed it down with walnuts). Got any pics of you enjoying it?

Ricky- I have some 60#'ers- I have a Penobscot bow with a 26"-27" draw. Not one of my best, but closest I have on hand. And a real shooter.

To masterhunter and Therron- I've been down with the flu latley, so I should be getting your bows out sometime this weekend, maybe next week. Sorry about the delay:embara:.


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## Rickyford

well kegan I just need a good bow that I can hunt deer with and I realy do not want to have to buy 1 for over $300 so if you have anything that is good I would be realy happy


Ricky


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## kegan

If all you want is a meat maker, then try the $15 board bow. It is well worth it to make your own, as you can make what you want, and whatever you want. It is alot easier than you would think.


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## armyboy

kegan said:


> Armyboy- glad you like it! It's hickory, with natural walnut stain (as in I rubbed it down with walnuts). Got any pics of you enjoying it?
> 
> Ricky- I have some 60#'ers- I have a Penobscot bow with a 26"-27" draw. Not one of my best, but closest I have on hand. And a real shooter.
> 
> To masterhunter and Therron- I've been down with the flu latley, so I should be getting your bows out sometime this weekend, maybe next week. Sorry about the delay:embara:.


i don't have any pics, i could get some but i can't figure out how to resize them so i can't post them, i could send them to your email if i knew it??


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## Rickyford

> God bless America! Support the troops. there the one that keep you free! this is the USA on the Right and Iraq on the left
> MAN CAN'T LIVE ON BREAD ALONE(bible)


A guy once said if your not going to stand behind our troops feel free to stand infront of them.


Ricky


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## armyboy

Rickyford said:


> A guy once said if your not going to stand behind our troops feel free to stand infront of them.
> 
> 
> Ricky


so true


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## kegan

Guys, not here- please:wink:.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan could you tell me some about the seminoles they really interest me. i saw your "greatest american hero post" i wondered about them for a while but never known much about them

isnt bob on PA seminole?


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## kegan

David- The Seminoles were, from what I've read, members of other tribes (Cree, Okechobe I believe, and others). They were fierce hunters and warriors- and the only Native tribe never to make an agreement with whites. They were amazing hutners, and extremely talented archers. They lived in Florida, and were extremely proud. They were also extremely powerful physically, as well as more knowledgeable in the ways of the wilds than any white hunter- and all of the pro hunters of today combined. They were amazing. They could wrestle and alligator, pole a canoe all day, and partake in a life style few men of today are capable of. Hunters of no equal, and brilliant to boot. And yes, Bob is a full blooded Seminole.


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## 2wyoming

Kegan, i need to make a self bow for our bunny hunt


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## Rickyford

> Guys, not here- please.


:suspiciouWhat are you talking about because if you are not behind our troops feel free to stand infront of them.:brave:



Ricky


----------



## kegan

Rickyford said:


> :suspiciouWhat are you talking about because if you are not behind our troops feel free to stand infront of them.:brave:
> 
> 
> 
> Ricky


Oh lord. Don't get me started. That is the dumbest crap I've heard yet. Either it's intended as a threat, which means youre making an idiot's argument, or you mean to say to go fight the war for them, which would mean that you support the idea of the war in the first place, adn just not the soldiers- which is rediculous. War isn't natural, it is man made. Conflict is natural, but not the way we do. All about selfish political gain. If you have a problem with a person, deal with the person- not the entire country. 

Darn. I promised myself I wouldn't say anyhting:zip:

2Wyoming- lol, something like that. I'm trying to find some public land that would be good for a rabbit hunt. I have the feelig we'll need lots of arrows:wink:.


----------



## armyboy

Rickyford said:


> :suspiciouWhat are you talking about because if you are not behind our troops feel free to stand infront of them.:brave:
> 
> 
> 
> Ricky


richy don't get into it with him i have already done it, it doesn't work..... he's hopeless
no efence kegan lets drop this right now you know how i fell, and i know how you fell so everyone drop it:wink:


----------



## 2wyoming

2Wyoming- lol, something like that. I'm trying to find some public land that would be good for a rabbit hunt. I have the feelig we'll need lots of arrows:wink:.[/QUOTE]

my grandpa operates a saw mill. Ill have him make us up some arrows


----------



## Rickyford

Hey armyboy thanks for telling me that about kegan.
Hey kegan do you know about Hitler and the jews if we do not fight we will end up like the jews and the germans.

We are a county of peace but we have to fight for peace it is not natral.:wink:
I can see you are not a christan either.
And I will agree to disagree ok


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

i wouldnt start


----------



## armyboy

kegan said:


> Oh lord. Don't get me started. That is the dumbest crap I've heard yet. Either it's intended as a threat, which means youre making an idiot's argument, or you mean to say to go fight the war for them, which would mean that you support the idea of the war in the first place, adn just not the soldiers- which is rediculous. War isn't natural, it is man made. Conflict is natural, but not the way we do. All about selfish political gain. If you have a problem with a person, deal with the person- not the entire country.
> 
> Darn. I promised myself I wouldn't say anyhting:zip:
> 
> 2Wyoming- lol, something like that. I'm trying to find some public land that would be good for a rabbit hunt. I have the feelig we'll need lots of arrows:wink:.


hey sorry didn't mean to get into this with you and ricky but uh, what the heck?
war isn't natural??? conflict is the same as war(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/war), so that means war is natural. your talking out of both sides to your mouth here. 
and as for war is because of selfish political gain... one side yes the other side no. we are mostly one the other side. 
as for as having a problem with a person, deal with him not the country... isn't that was happened in world war 1... check you history pale before you open your mouth:wink:


----------



## tylerolsen12

Ok guys lets stick to the topic and be a little mature here and respect others opinions


----------



## Rickyford

> Ok guys sets stick to the topic and be a little mature here and respect thers opinions


:sleepy2:


----------



## tylerolsen12

Rickyford said:


> :sleepy2:


if you think thats boring go start your own thread about another subject there is a rule on AT about Hi jacking threads


----------



## kegan

I am too tired to argue. I know I'm not right all the times, and I admit that I type so fast when I'm arguing that my arguements are misworded and lacking complete foundation. It's hard to be right and staunch with all this topic, just like archery- thre are too many variables to be right or set a given rule. I will say this- this facination with arguing about war at any cost is driving me insane. It stretched all the way here, on a thread I thought I could show pictures of the things that I enjoy doing, without being bombarded by a bunch of pro-war kids that find enjoyment out of crushing openmindedness- even in myself (I hate arguing because I usually see both sides; somehow this gets sucked out of me here). But somehow it turned into an assault on my beliefs by two people who, before, requested that I help them experience that same enjoyment I originally came here for. It's draining and depressing and very discouraging.

And thank you archerykid, a voice of reason !

Anyway. I'm working on a take down flatbow. Dunno why, just wanted to try it. So far, it is tillered (as close as I can get it- there is a bump in one limb that made it difficult), and the pegs are setting in the handle right now. I still have to make sure I can get the handle working, and finish it, but it is close. I should have pics next week.


----------



## tylerolsen12

kegan said:


> I am too tired to argue. I know I'm not right all the times, and I admit that I type so fast when I'm arguing that my arguements are misworded and lacking complete foundation. It's hard to be right and staunch with all this topic, just like archery- thre are too many variables to be right or set a given rule. I will say this- this facination with arguing about war at any cost is driving me insane. It stretched all the way here, on a thread I thought I could show pictures of the things that I enjoy doing, without being bombarded by a bunch of pro-war kids that find enjoyment out of crushing openmindedness- even in myself (I hate arguing because I usually see both sides; somehow this gets sucked out of me here). But somehow it turned into an assault on my beliefs by two people who, before, requested that I help them experience that same enjoyment I originally came here for. It's draining and depressing and very discouraging.
> 
> And thank you archerykid, a voice of reason !
> 
> Anyway. I'm working on a take down flatbow. Dunno why, just wanted to try it. So far, it is tillered (as close as I can get it- there is a bump in one limb that made it difficult), and the pegs are setting in the handle right now. I still have to make sure I can get the handle working, and finish it, but it is close. I should have pics next week.


anytime kegan i realize not everyone agrees on everything some just have to deal with it


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan i know what you mean about arguing. I really would of thought this would of been one of the last places to look for an argument.


What kind of takedown are you making? Is it in a sleeve or cut diagnally through the midle and just tied and untied to to take it down?


----------



## 2wyoming

archerykid12 said:


> Ok guys lets stick to the topic and be a little mature here and respect others opinions


Finally.,

Im glad someone said that

thanks archerykid!:wink:


----------



## armyboy

kegan said:


> I am too tired to argue. I know I'm not right all the times, and I admit that I type so fast when I'm arguing that my arguements are misworded and lacking complete foundation. It's hard to be right and staunch with all this topic, just like archery- thre are too many variables to be right or set a given rule. I will say this- this facination with arguing about war at any cost is driving me insane. It stretched all the way here, on a thread I thought I could show pictures of the things that I enjoy doing, without being bombarded by a bunch of pro-war kids that find enjoyment out of crushing openmindedness- even in myself (I hate arguing because I usually see both sides; somehow this gets sucked out of me here). But somehow it turned into an assault on my beliefs by two people who, before, requested that I help them experience that same enjoyment I originally came here for. It's draining and depressing and very discouraging.
> 
> And thank you archerykid, a voice of reason !
> 
> Anyway. I'm working on a take down flatbow. Dunno why, just wanted to try it. So far, it is tillered (as close as I can get it- there is a bump in one limb that made it difficult), and the pegs are setting in the handle right now. I still have to make sure I can get the handle working, and finish it, but it is close. I should have pics next week.


sorry if i efended you in anyway. as you can see i feel very strong about this subject, so lets close this and get back to the subject:wink::focus:


----------



## kegan

David- it's cut with pins in the handle. I set it aside though, it needs another piece glued on for strenght, some more work on the handle and limbs, but only shoots so-so. I'm going to make a couple more longbows (like the 80# hickory) with different woods. These should only take a few days a piece, so there will be pics none the less.


----------



## Rickyford

Sorry kegan:zip::hug: nah


I tryd to make a bow but my wood cracked?



Ricky


----------



## kegan

Rickyford said:


> Sorry kegan:zip::hug: nah
> 
> 
> I tryd to make a bow but my wood cracked?
> 
> 
> 
> Ricky


1. Is it a board?
2. If so, did you back it with the paper bag?
3. If not, what sort of wood, and did you accidnetally cut into the back of the bow with a tool?

Well, I went tobaganign on our now completely iced over driveway when i decided to start on a white oak bow. So I split it and now we each are working on one- mine is roughed out and his is bieng layed out. I dunno how long it will take to cure, but tillering shouldn't take too long, neither should finishing. I'll keep you all posted.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

I cut a hickory sapling down. I will probably start it in a month or 2 once i get my drawknife which will probably be a while.

i have a couple questions:
once i rough it out how long will it take it to dry after the spling(2 1/2) has been drying for a month or 2? i know hickory loses moisture slowly. I think a couple more weeks would do it but i want a pros point of view:wink:
If i dont decrown it will it need a backing? i dont want to back it.
how does 1 3/8 wide by 64" sound? im going for 50# somewhere between 26-28"

then i want to hunt with this but i will probably have a better one by october but it will be good practice because ive never made a bow from a stave


----------



## kegan

Decrowning it, on hickory, is unecessary. But if you do decrown it, it won't need a backing. Hickory doesn like to break, and if you leave it strung for 24 hours after reaching brace height it should be fine. Weaker woods need it- but not hickory. I would reduce it to the necessary dimensions then let it season, less wood, less time. Two months by a fire place should be fine, but a couple weeks and then putting it in a bow dryer should do it. If you have an hatchet you can start now. I would go with a 26" draw, and make it a full 1 1/2" like The "perfect bow" Tim Baker describes in TBB vol. 1. I have found I prefer these simple D bows, as they are easy to make and are quite pleasnent shooters. And 50# should be easy and with minimal set. And thanks!


----------



## kegan

I have two bows roughed out and drying right now- one of sassafras and one of white oak. I might try an elm bow soon, but I have to get some arrows made first. I think I'll have to use some boards from Home Depot- some poplar and oak. The way the wood is drying, the white oak should be done by the end of next week or so. 

So far...

White oak, 73 1/4" long, 1 1/2" wide for the middle 38" or so, tapering to 3/8" tips. I still have to tiller the thickness though.

Sassafras, 74" long, same width as the white oak. It is slightly thicker than my other bows due to being so light and the round belly I'm going to give it.


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## master hunter

yo kegan wen u gana send me that bow?????????????????


----------



## kegan

master hunter said:


> yo kegan wen u gana send me that bow?????????????????


Got your bow and two other all wrapped up and ready to go out some time this week. Gotta give me some time- winter is a bad time for us- our driveway turns to ice and we're lucky if we can get groceries.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

I cant wait to see that sass bow. sass has some pretty wood and it smells good.

i am done tillering my bow now so a week or two till its finished. i know that whats i always say but i am for real this time:wink:

once i finish that i will start a black walnut backed with hickory. i am getting the supplies from pine hollow long bows. it $40 for a 1-2-6 board and a hickory back. thats really not too bad becasue black walnut is expensive and hickory backs are like $15. this will definately be my new hunting bow.

i might consider red elm though. its the same price. what would you recomend?


----------



## kegan

I'm probabaly going to wind up haiving to back it. So I might try my hand at a hickory backing as well. The white oak is nearing completetion. I'll proabably get it in the drier tomarrow night. Depending on how it turns out, it should be be a real hunter.

Can't wait to see it.

Since they are selling it as bow wood, then the grain is straight. I would go with the walnut- and it is well worth the money. 

I don't know about red elm- but the elm bow I made was a bear to work, and I had to use power tools for the whole process.


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## therron258

hey kegan, thanks! no rush man, if your sick, your sick! hope you are better now or will be soon!


----------



## kegan

Actually, my mom got off work a little earlier, so I got the stuff up and out. You all should be getting your stuff next week some time!


----------



## master hunter

kegan said:


> Actually, my mom got off work a little earlier, so I got the stuff up and out. You all should be getting your stuff next week some time!


sweet man. sorry to be pushy just exited!! lol


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

wow kegan your giving away alot of bows. Infect people. once you start building shooting primitive bows there is no cure.

I am not quite as primitive as you though i put risers and cut arrows rests ina ll of my bows. 

tonite i took my rose shaft and scooped pith out them whittled a wooden head that looks like a field point. i made it with a thin end and inserted it into the shaft and put artificail sinew on it. it goin nowhere it REALLY tight fit. i almost knapped a head but i misplaced my flaker after the stitches incident


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## kegan

Yeah, it just seems rude to give bows to some, but not others though! I do try to though, what with the build alongs and stuff

Lol, risers aren't that modern. The sudburry bow, a Native piece found somehwere in the east, was very similiar to the modern flatbow- with a thicker riser. Many ancient European (pre-ELB) were made in the same way. As for rests, that's all just personal taste. I've found I can't shoot a bow with a rest very well is all:wink:.

That's awsome! Don't forget pics. I have to make up some mroe arrows (red oak board arrows for now, then come spring a full set of good hickory arrows). Which also means I should go about making up some more trade points. This is so much fun.


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## thrill_seeker

how do you build a bow and match your draw length?? cuz i pull 28inch with release but fingers its probally around 29 help please


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## master hunter

yo kegan u could start a little biz and make some good money.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thrill_seeker said:


> how do you build a bow and match your draw length?? cuz i pull 28inch with release but fingers its probally around 29 help please


well kegan could tell you more but heres what i know

my draw seems a litlle shorter shooting no letoff bows i too pull 28 but when your shooting a heavier no letoff bow it would probably be more closer to 26

a bow with a bend through the handle design has to be twice the draw
example 56" bow for a 28"pull it could be shorter but you would have to use a strong wood and then sinew it
to hit your weight i usually aim for the weight i want somewhere around 20" and get the tiller even then reduce weight because it will pick up weight fast beyond this point.
go slow sometime you will think i need to get this beast bend and take off a lot of wood. dont i have done it before and i thought my bow would come out underwieght but luckily it didnt but i was scared


my bows are 66" and 72" so a 28" draw is fine one bow pulls around 35# now thaqt its been broken in but i made my other one very carefully during tillering and it pulls at least 50# and wont lose much more weight

so if i were you i would start off making bows at around 68" long

hope it helps
wait till kegan chimes in


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## thrill_seeker

alright thanx i'm hopeing to build one of these soon old nehibors have a old run down saw mill so i can get plenty of wood and practice but i think i can get it i just hate to work on it a while and then watch it break on me


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## No.1 Hoyt

it wont if your careful. pick out a good board with straight grain STRAIGHT grain if it has bad grain it will fail. 

tehn you will ned to back it you can use many things silk, linen, denim, paper bags like kegan did his, drywall tape, leather but it has to be thin because leather is tough and you wouldnt want to put a gian t peice of leather on your bow


you can really use anything to back it as long as its tough.


----------



## thrill_seeker

No.1 Hoyt said:


> it wont if your careful. pick out a good board with straight grain STRAIGHT grain if it has bad grain it will fail.
> 
> tehn you will ned to back it you can use many things silk, linen, denim, paper bags like kegan did his, drywall tape, leather but it has to be thin because leather is tough and you wouldnt want to put a gian t peice of leather on your bow
> 
> 
> you can really use anything to back it as long as its tough.


should back it with other wood ?? but it you back it with paper it doesnt look that great or do you take it off after a while? sorry i'm just gettin the basics gotta start somewhere


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

y could back it with a peice of straigght grained hickory, hard maple, bamboo works too but you have to flatten it. infact i am going to start a black walnut bow that is backed with a peice of hickory

all a backing does is keep a splinter from rising ot your bow breaking or exploding but if your board has perfectly striaght grain you dont have to back it but i would allways back a board
with any backing you would leave it on and paper doesnt look all that bad if you paint it. i usually paint the backing black if i am using a fabric,paper,or drywall tape


----------



## holger_danske

I've been wanting to make a selfbow, but I don't have any woodworking skills so the instructions I've found were kind of intimidating. Then I come across this thread and a young man is making them with only an old axe head??? I am appropriately humbled.
Thanks, Kegan, for sharing your knowledge. I've only read the last 3-4 pages so far, but your instructions seem much more clear than others I've found. I'm going to back to the beginning and spend a few hours reading this thread. I'm sure I'll be back w/ questions later.


----------



## kegan

Thrill seeker- double your draw and add sixteen. Your draw will be shorter wihout a release actuakky, not longer (2.5" shorter usually). Building a long D bow is rather easy, especailly from a board. Just get the STRAIGHTEST, MOST PARALLEL GRAINED BOARD YOU CAN FIND!

When building a bow, your are stressing a piee of wood. To make up for this, we allow it to bend it's full length, leave it long, brace it low (about 5-5 1/2"), we tiller it slowly (use a logn string to get it to brace height. The leave it strung a day before gently tiller it to full draw), and we leave the midlimb to midlimb appropriatly wide (1 1/2" in the middle half of the bow).

If you have a board that has perfectly straight grain without any deviations or run offs, you don't need a backing. If you have run offs, back it with something. Wood works extremely well, but a laminate bow has other trouble in, and hickory or bamboo backing strips can be kinda pricey. Paper is ugly, but is cheap- just like an old sheet would (I've used both). The remain for the full life and are nice for painting or drawings. You can buy a roll of silk and cut a strip off it. If you do. apply it under tension. If you've read the instructions on page 12, you will know how I make my best bows (only form a board). Such a bow is perfect for hunting and veyr easy to make.

holger_danske- glad you liked my build-along! Bow building isn't nearly as hard as people make it out to be if you know a) dimensions and b) how to tiller properly. That's all there is to bow making. Most people include lots of the physcics and other "junk" behind it all, but for getting a good solid bow made it isn't necessary. And I'll hold you to those questions


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

finished sanding my bow and finishing the handle. so far i love this bow. i have no idea what its pulling but id say it is in the 50# range. the increase in speed and penetrating power is amazing. it is still hard for me to get back but i will only get stronger but a 90# bow i dont hink i will ever be able to get back.

no i have to stain and finish it


----------



## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> finished sanding my bow and finishing the handle. so far i love this bow. i have no idea what its pulling but id say it is in the 50# range. the increase in speed and penetrating power is amazing. it is still hard for me to get back but i will only get stronger but a 90# bow i dont hink i will ever be able to get back.
> 
> no i have to stain and finish it


Can't wait to see it! Each time I increase my bow weight on my hutnign bows I am simply fabbergasted by the amazing increase in power. But at 80# with 800+ grain arrows, I think I'm content. Starting at fifty pounds, it only took about two years to get to 80#, so 90# isn't that far off:wink:!

I'm getting anxious to see it! What sort of arrows are you shooting?


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

i would be content at 80# 800 grain arrow

i really like my bow i iwll post unfinished pics tomorrow and then finished pics sometime soon

i am shooting rose shoots with turkey fletchings, and wooden practice points fitted in the end. not sure on wight but its rather light for a wood arrow and my bow shoots it fast. probably 400-500 grains


----------



## thrill_seeker

my shop teacher said to use wood as a backing is easy just run your board throught the tale saw get it perfectly strait and the run it through again with just a 1/8 inch past the saw blade and then when you glue it you cant have enough clamps on it just i'm thinking of building it in shop its just the school frowns apon building weapons but it is only a little hick town school so i might be able to make it in there 
is there a build alobg for arrows too??? cuz i'm going turkey huntin this spring and wondering about what feathers to save or if i should just shoot my old carbons but it would be fun to make'em myself too!


----------



## kzz1king

I am in the process of making a walnut bow backed with maple. I ripped my boards and planed them (sorry, I am a shop guy!) I am gluing up the walnut, maple, and then oak. When dry I will run the laminate through the saw, ripping the maple down the middle. I will then have 2 blanks, walnut/maple and oak/maple.
Questions, how thick should I leave the maple? 1/16, 1/8, 1/4? 

This is my second attempt. I just built a red oak bow backed by itself. I think I goofed on the glue up. At any rate it was a pretty impressive blow up. Thanks for all the info here,especially to Kegan.
Wayne
PS I teach woodworking in a high school. I am hoping to get the admin to allow us to build "hunting implements":wink: in school.


----------



## kegan

Backing a bow with wood works... but you ned the backing wood to be a wood that is strong in tension. Hickory, elm, bamboo, etc. These will garuntee aainst breakage. Weak woods, and grain violated pieces will blow on you. It is much easier to glue paper, or even better, line or silk on the back. These will keep you piece together, take less work, and will take less time. Laminated bows are tricky without a good backing, and are FAR FROM EASIER.

kzz1king- I would leave the backing 1/8". The thicker the backing, the closer to the belly the compression force is felt. This means you'll need a stronger compression wood (oak and walnut both work well). 

It should be rememberd that slow tillering, and leaving it braced 24 hours once it has been tillered to brace height, can help prevent an otherwise doomed bow from being firewood!

I'll be doing an arrow build along this weekend. Got to make some more up, figured this would be the perfect oppurtunity. Made from 1/2 x 6 red oak boards, hand feltched with artificial sinew and store bought feathers (I'm out of the real ones). Always save wild turkey feathers! They can be hard to come by, and make some of the best feltchings. Carbon arrows are generally too light for good shooting, and you will be unhappy with the results. Heavy wooden arrows fly exceptionally well from wooden longbows, even at a distance.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan what kind of LINE do you back your bows with?:wink: i know what you mean my bow i just did is backed with LINEN:wink:

Im lookin foward to your arrow build along. I am also out of turkey feathers i took some off an old arrow and put them on my new one.

come spring i will have tons of feathers. i could trade you a whole wing for something probably.


i will try to post pics tonite but i am feeling lazy and right now i dont want to

what sort of arrows are you going to make. i like shoot arrows because of ease. cut them, debark them(except for last couple inches), straighten them a few times a week untill dry.

i know real wood arrows would be more durable and i would rather hunt with those. i am looking foward to this buildalong


----------



## kzz1king

Kegan, do you think I would be better off using oak as a backing and maple for the belly . Had planned to back an oak with maple and back a walnut with maple but I could back with oak. I also have access to cherry. I know what you mean by backing with paper, silk, or linen but I am hung up on the good looks of wood backing. I will make this one longer and have it bend through the handle. I will also leave it braced overnight. I did not do that with the other.

Question, when you build to bend through the handle do you still leave a 4 inch section straight? (non tillered)

Another question, how would it work to sandwhich the silk or linen BETWEEN the 2 laminates?


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

kegan i lied i dont have pics yet. 

even tough i only have like 20 min of work left on my bow it wont be done for a couple days i need to get some more stain and go to the archery shop. hopefully the guy will test wieght on a selfbow


----------



## kegan

kzz1king said:


> Kegan, do you think I would be better off using oak as a backing and maple for the belly . Had planned to back an oak with maple and back a walnut with maple but I could back with oak. I also have access to cherry. I know what you mean by backing with paper, silk, or linen but I am hung up on the good looks of wood backing. I will make this one longer and have it bend through the handle. I will also leave it braced overnight. I did not do that with the other.
> 
> Question, when you build to bend through the handle do you still leave a 4 inch section straight? (non tillered)
> 
> Another question, how would it work to sandwhich the silk or linen BETWEEN the 2 laminates?


Rock maples seem to be strong in tension than oak, which I've usually found to be violated in the grain pretty badly. Longer and leaving it breaed should help ensure it won't break. Maple backed walnut, oak, or cherry would all work well. 

The middle four inches is a straight, consistent thickness and width, tapering to the two tips. If it isn't bending enough, I will remove a little. 3/4" thick tpaering to 5/16" thick tips has given me good results so far, especially for stornger bows. If I were to lighten it, I would remove wood from the entire length- including the handle.

I don't think that would work. The soft material has only tension strnegth, so putting it in the middle would make it practically useless. 

David- I'm making arrows sawn from boards (I have no dry logs) and should get it done tomarrow night unless I've got alot of homework- they are very simple to make, but can be time/money consuming compared to bow building. I'd love to trade for some feathers. I'll be finishing the shafting and fletching today, then get the pictures ready and up on the here.


----------



## therron258

where is your arrow build??


----------



## CA_Rcher12

therron258 said:


> where is your arrow build??


Yeah, I think it's time, Kegan...

The arrows I make suck.


----------



## armyboy

CA_Rcher12 said:


> Yeah, I think it's time, Kegan...
> 
> The arrows I make suck.


yep i need some arrows so get too typing kegan:wink:


----------



## armyboy

hey kegan just want to let you know in case you need so extra money there is a person that is selling long bows on ebay for anywhere from $60 to $150. think there are probably bunchs of people that would buy a few of your bow on there.

just a thought, maybe you could have a ebay long bow store and you wouldn't have to pay taxes:wink:


----------



## therron258

Hey kegan, my string is falling apart


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

whats it made of?


----------



## therron258

what kegan made me


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

Paracord?


----------



## armyboy

No.1 Hoyt said:


> Paracord?


thats what mine is:wink: (i think)


----------



## kegan

therron258 said:


> Hey kegan, my string is falling apart


Hmm. Artificial sinew doesn't last long. If you care to, you could make a Dacron one following the instructions on the build-along. Dacron would last longer.

armyboy- Can't sell on ebay, no credit card. 

Here it is- the arrow build along (version 1). 

Start with materials. The one here are made from a board, but a seasoned log of straight, knot-free wood is superior, as the grain is straighter and the selection is wider. Hickory is my favorite. As long as you don't lose it, the shaft will last you a long time- I have a blunt that I just reflethed for the third time. Oak, ash, cedars, poplar, Sitka and other spruces, dogwood, viburnum, sourwood, and any storng wooden shoot or straight grained log will work. If you use a log, cut it to three foot lengths, debark it, split it in half, and let it dry in a cool spot for a few weeks. You don't want it to reflex, like a bow stave, so leave it thick. Do not cut it up until it is perfectly dry (it won't lose anymore weight). If you use shoots, debark them and hand straighten (without heat) them until they are dry (which takes about a week). Then, plane them down to size. For your first arrows (and bows under 55#), I would suggest getting a 1/2" x 6" poplar or oak. Pine also works for lighter bows, but finding straight grain may be more difficult. 

A good arrow is veyr straight grained. If the grain runs from end to end, than a shock of hitting a rock or something won't break it. If the grain runs off the shaft though, this will snap the shaft. Shoot arrows, and ones split of cut from a long are very strong for this reason. Remember, STRAIGHT GRAIN.

For fletchings, nothing beats feathers. Vanes can be noisy on longbows, and I've found they don't take the same abuse (the entire thing will tear off- a feather will simply wear down slightly). You can use turkey, goose, crow, pheasnet, grouse, peacock, or any other stiff large feather. As I don't have a ready access to wild feathers, I purchase mine precut and died birght red (which helps prevent loss). It's about $40 for 100 5 1/2" red shield cut, which comes out to a little over a $1 to feltch an arrow. Which sounds good to me. You can always use wild feathers with a little cutting. Just smash the rib slightly and split it with a knife. Make a small template with an old playing card so that all of them will have the same dimensions (and it should be no less than 5/8" in the back). All should be with the same cup (or all bought in the same wing- left or right). I tie them on with artificial sinew (I split 70# into five strands) and modern fletching adhesive.

Start by cutting them into 7/16" squares if you have access to a drill and table saw. If you are going to plane them round by hand, make them 3/8" or 13/32" or so. I cut these at a full 1/2", as they are intended for "war arrows" as well as 3/8" hunting shafts. This is why they appear larger than normal. If you don't have access to a table saw or bandsaw, split them out with a fixed blade knife and a mallet, then plane them to square.

Once cut into squares about 32" long, you can begin rounding by hand if all you have is a plane. Hold the square as pictured, pullimng the shaft through. Make it into an octagon, then make it sixteen sided. On a 3/8" square, this will leave it virtuall round. A softer wood would be better for your first try at this, as it is easy to work and less likely to gouge. Avoid taking too much off. You can also set it in a crack in a table or work bench and plane it for a more consistent cut. To check the size, pull the arrow through a piece of wood with a 3/8" or slightly larger (to make sure it goes though) hole drilled in it. Go slow and it will come out as perfectly.

If you have a corded power drill and metal cutting bits, you can cut graduate holes in a piece of angle iron, starting at 9/16" or 1/2" and going down to desired shaft size (I like thick heavy shafts about 3/8" in diameter. 23/64" or 11/32" would be better for bows under 50#). Chuck the shaft up in the drill (you'll probably have to lightly round the part that goes into the chuck) and "drill" them thorugh each hole, going from bigger to smaller (you will have to slightly point the end that does through at first). Continue until you have the desired thickness.

Now for straightening. Up until now, if you went slowly and smoothly and didn't fight the wood, you should have a beautiful dowel that is slightly rough and a little crooked at most. Sand the entire shaft with 60 grit and then 120 grit and then sight down the shaft. Look at the end. It should be straight. go donw and fins the first bend or whatever that deviates from this initial straightness. Hold it over a heat source, such as a cnadle, range, fire, or in the case, my father's heat gun. Gently bend the crook out and hold it until it cools. Avoid scorching by holding it in one place too long. Go along the entire shaft, straightening the whole thing to match the back few inches. This will yield a near perfectly straight shaft, whilst taking out only the large general bends will leave you with a corkeed arrow. The difference in how you go about straightenning will show itself in the finished arrow.


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## No.1 Hoyt

That is very nice Kegan very informative now i may have to get off my lazy but and use something other than shoots

i was going to spray the finish on my bow tonite but i have alot of homework so it wont be done yet


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## kegan

Once the shaft is cut to size, length, and straightened, you then cut the length. I make mine 1/8" wide and 3/8" deep. All that is necessary is to make sure it is perpendicular to the grain (this will prevent splitting). I simply use a hacksaw, as it takes only a few seconds.

Now to fletch it. All you need is a tab in the back of the feather (something about 1/4" long. The first should be perpendicular to the nock, the second two 120 degrees from it. This allows the fletchings to slide along the shaft. Put a little glue on the underside of the tab and tie the first down with a slip knot and a few wraps around. It should be about 1" from the end of the shaft. As you bring it around, wrap the next one on and wrap it a few times. Continue until they are all attached in the back. The glue isn't necessary for your first (this takes some dexterity and coordination), but later on it will help prevent them from pulling out. Pull the string under previous loops tightly to prevent it from coming loose. 

Once the back is secured, wrap beneath the nock tightly for 1/2". This will allow it to take the brunt of shooting.

Tie the front down next. I put a little glue under the front of the tab before I wrap. As you wrapped the back down, do the same on the fron, but with fewer underneath the tabs, and more on top. Also, it is very important that you offset the front about 1/8" to 1/4", pulling the front of the tab away from the cup of the feather. Pull it tight to the shaft, slightly offset from straight, and wrap it down one at a time. Wrap all the tabs down very tightly, making sure nothing is exposed. This makes it smooth and slide over your hand without damage.


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## No.1 Hoyt

NIce kegan. i think arrow building is as addictive as bow building

know you need a trade point or knap along. :wink:

you have done soo many build-along it has really helped. i think doing build alongs are fun but i wouldnt know what to do


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## kegan

Now the fronts are tied. I then go over the thread with pine pitch, to waterproof it and to keep it from wearing out. Just put a little on and spin it between your fingers. This melts the pitch onto the thread. Cover all of it.

Once the feathers are in place and the thread taken care of, glue the edge down with glue and let it dry.

The helical. As you can see, the feathers are offset a good bit. This helical allows for a more accurate arrow. Tall fletchings, a longer shaft, more helical, and shooting a bow so it shoots in a more "centershot" manner all help with accuracy. Helical is necessary on arrows that are to be shot at a distance and with unknown spine. 

The finished end.

Put the point on (an old casing, such as a .38, .357, or .30-30/ .30-06 with the neck cut off all work for practice and small game). Broadheads can be made or bought, they should just be two blade and perfectly aligned. Leave the shaft long, as you can cut it down later if your accuracy isn't what you want. Mine are cut exactly to my draw legnth, or 1/2" beyond. Coat the shaft with a waterproofer. I use deer fat, but any waterproof finish will work.


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> NIce kegan. i think arrow building is as addictive as bow building
> 
> know you need a trade point or knap along. :wink:
> 
> you have done soo many build-along it has really helped. i think doing build alongs are fun but i wouldnt know what to do


Once I get some good hickory huntign arrows made I'll show how to make trad points.


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## master hunter

yo kegan my friend was wondering if you killed anything wit ur bow and i did remember if u did.


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## kegan

master hunter said:


> yo kegan my friend was wondering if you killed anything wit ur bow and i did remember if u did.


Only a groundhog. Only been hunting with them two years so far, and this will be the first year I have GOOD arrows to go with a good stable longbow. I'll get pics when I do though.


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## master hunter

kegan said:


> Only a groundhog. Only been hunting with them two years so far, and this will be the first year I have GOOD arrows to go with a good stable longbow. I'll get pics when I do though.


oic that kool.


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> NIce kegan. i think arrow building is as addictive as bow building
> 
> know you need a trade point or knap along. :wink:
> 
> you have done soo many build-along it has really helped. i think doing build alongs are fun but i wouldnt know what to do


To do a build along just have someone take pictures of you as you work. It's a bit harder when you have to take the pictues yourself though.

Master hunter- I was stuck on "short bows" for the longest time, and my arrows never weighed enough to gain consitent stability. So, take it from me, if you want to get results with wooden archery, use a good longbow and heavy, well made wooden arrows


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## buckshot95

Hey kegan. I got a ash board. It is 72" long. I was wounding how to get 50 lbs @ 28 out of it. Thanks Buckshot95!!!


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## No.1 Hoyt

dang kegan i should of finished my bow monday but my mom was mad at me so she made only do it on weekend so it should be done today or tomorow


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## kegan

Buckshot- That's awsome! If you want it to come to out to weight, leave it thick when you start, and go slow when tillering. The dimensions on the build along should garuntee a good strong bow. To bring it down, you just remove some wood even;y from the belly until it pulls a few pounds over what you want. 

Don't forget pictures!

David- no biggy, I have twelve I should finish:wink:. Can't wait to see it!


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## No.1 Hoyt

i will get it done soon i really like this bow powerful and fast
12 bows wow

i am getting back into flint knapping since my accident


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> i will get it done soon i really like this bow powerful and fast
> 12 bows wow
> 
> i am getting back into flint knapping since my accident


That's awsome. Can't wait! Yeah, I'll start a bow and then begin a new one lol. 

Sweet!


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## kegan

Update:

The main two bows I've been working on, the sassafras and the white oak, are still in the works. The sassafras split across the back, so after a poor salvage attempt was made, I roughed out the sister stave. It is drying right now, and should be ready for a cloth backing and then tillering (sassafras may require a backing, but it is very easy to work and tiller- absolutely a pleasure). The white oak has taken on alot of reflex, but it's still green. Another week and it should be ready though. My brother is working on a red oak board bow- unbacked. For those of you who want to make a bow, but don't want to back it (make it a selfbow), try this:
1. Leave it longer than what your draw requires (the bow is twice your draw plus 16, he is tillering it at 72" insted of 68". Once tillered to full draw he will pike, or shorten, it)
2. Tiller it VERY slowly. The method described using a ruler to measure between the bow and the second string is extremely helpful- and might even be necessary
3. Make sure you leave it braced, or what equals brace height on your tillering stick, for 24 hours before bringing it to full draw. This is the same thing as stretching beofre you run. You cramp, but a bow could break.
4. Use only the straightest grained board you can find. Kyle's board had minimal deviation from straight.

I am also getting ready to make up some of my beloved hickory hunting arrows. Once made, I'll show how to make points of several types-including some deadly broadheads. Hopefully I'll have this all done before turkey season, so those of you who are big turkey hunters can try it before becoming really distracted.


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## kegan

Okay, now I have a 70" red oak bow drying as well. There is also an elm tree I've been eyeing. I alos would like to try a new style of quiver, but I'll have to get some cloth for it. So, as it stands that I will be fully outfitted for hunting, several tmes over, by next dear season. My main concern is new arrows though, so I've been looking over some hickories for arrow wood.

My question: would anyone like to see any build alongs on this stuff? I was going to do one for trade points, but does anyone want to see a build along on a tree bow, arrows, what?


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## kegan

Olay, add a red oak to that list. And maybe an elm- there is a young tree I've been eyeing. I also want to get some tough cloth and make a new quiver- semi Plains style. SO I'll be fully outfitted several times over come huting season:wink:. My main concern at the moment is arrows though, so I'm on the look out for good hickory, as well as drying what I have.

So, does anyone want a build along for this stuff? I know I want to do one on trade points, but is there anyhting you guys want to see?


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## João_Almeida

wow really cool! Longbows  never shooted one only recurve and compound


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## kzz1king

Well I have the maple backed walnut and the maple backed oak done. The oak came in a little light, about 30. The walnut 35-40. The walnut tillered really nice. The oak (pyramid style) has some limb twist that I am working on and one limb is stronger than other but I dont want it to get any lighter. If I had a cam I would post pics. I am having fun trying to shoot them.

CHEAP STRINGS- I used my old compound strings. Had to reserve but they work great. Should be able to get for free (use classifieds here WTB). I also bought a new string from the Cabella's bargain cave for 2.50.

PS I took Kegans advice and kept both bows at brace for 24 hours before finishing tiller. Seemed to work.


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## kegan

Strings then

Depending on the length, you can reduce the wood down to about 66-68" for a broken in longbow pulling 28". It will gain several pounds, shoot slightly faster, but won't be quite as accurate out to the greater distances.

And the 24 hour break in really helps.


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## kzz1king

I have been shooting both bows some and am enjoying the lighter draw weight. I am a beginner so will leave these as be. When I am ready for something heavier I want to build a hickory backed hickory or hickory backed oak. Gotta learn to shoot first tho!!


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## kegan

Okay. So the sassafras would have been done today... but I quit working on it. The limbs refuse to balance and it has come out far under weight (65# or so). But both of the oak bows that I wanted to finish will be done within a couple days- I'm tillering the white oak right now. Pcitures will be up by the middle of the week or so.


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## kegan

Okay, the white oak is nearing completion. 75#, it is a really sweet shooter- just have to wait to get some good string material. I've decided that, since the weather is starting to warm up, I'll be starting on a stone-age or hatchet bow soon. I'm working on the milkweed string right now. I'll start on the arrows soon too, and get them up here.

I'll be getting a string build-along up some time next week (fingers corssed).

Pictures coming soon:wink:


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## buckshot95

this is my first back quiver i have ever made.


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## kegan

That's awesome, have any close ups?


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## buckshot95

I don't have any close ups right now but I will.:wink:


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## toyatacoma

so ive been working on a selfbow and when you try to string it they snap so what type of wood should i be using cause the wood im using like snaps all easy


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## kegan

Once it's roughed out, you don't just string it up. You put a long string on it and gently tiller it to the point where it would be if it were braced. Then let it sit there for a day. Then you string it.

Try oak, hickory, or elm. All are strong in tension and rather common.


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## kegan

This week I should be able to show how to make a goo string for your bow. Once the weather warms up I'll alsop show yet another way of making a good bow. A simple hatchet bow and an easy tillering method.


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## buckshot95

hey kegan. i got the ash board tillered i think i am going to put it up. i was wondering what brace height you put your bow at thats. Thanks Buckshot95


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## buckshot95

here it is its 72in 60lbs at 27in. out of a ash board. unbacked my next one i am going to back it.


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## kegan

5 1/2" to 6" or so is good. That looks excellent- absolutley amazing for your first try (that's a perfect tiller)! Backings usually only sereve to prevent fracture on a longer bow, and if you can get straight grain- it's uneccesary:wink:. 

Can't wait to see one with you shooting it!


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## buckshot95

Thanks!!! when i get it all done. i will put pics of me shooting it. I am going to get a red oak board. here pretty quick.:wink: Buckshot95


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## No.1 Hoyt

wow thats amazing the tiller is great.

when i brace i my bows i stick my thumb up and have the string at the bottom of my thumbnail sometimes a little higher or lower


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## buckshot95

Thanks!! No.1 Hoyt i will do that with thumb.:wink:


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## No.1 Hoyt

ya just make a thumbs up that were i brace my bows.

i need to post pics of my new bow. i havent got around to that yet they will be up soon


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## toyatacoma

kegan said:


> Once it's roughed out, you don't just string it up. You put a long string on it and gently tiller it to the point where it would be if it were braced. Then let it sit there for a day. Then you string it.
> 
> Try oak, hickory, or elm. All are strong in tension and rather common.


ok thanks man


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## kegan

David's right- fistmele is the easiest and quickest way to check. 

Toyota- glad to help.

Along with the bows, I'm also working on gettting some arrows made up. Once made, I'll do a trade-point build-along, and a string making tutorial.


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## kegan

*String Build Along*

You'll need a spool of B-50 dacron or linen, some serving material, and some wax. You'll also need a board for the "jig". Fast Flight can cut un-prepared nocks, and nylon is usally too heavy and has too much stretch. B-50 works well and is pretty cheap.

Start by winding the thread around two nails or thumb tacks put into your board. They should be as far apart as your bow is long, plus 6". It will be an even number, as the loose ends should be at the same nail. For bows up to 45#, use 12 strands, up to 60# use 14, up to 75# use 16, and over 80 use 18 strands (this is for Dacron- linen will require more). Wind them taut.

Cut them loose from the nail where the loose ends are. The other end should be intact.Pull all the strands taut so you have none loose.

Braid the last foot of this loos end togther, starting loose and getting tighter the closer you get to the end. Once finished, singe the end with a lighter to prevent it from fraying and coming apart.


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## kegan

Now for the top loop. I apologize, as I don't know the common name for this knot.

Twist the loop at the intact end of the string slightly. Now, pull the braided end up through this now much smaller loop. Slacken or tighten until it is the size of your desired loop. Holding it firmly, tie the braided end back around itself, as you would if you were making a slip knot, the difference being that you are tying it around an existing slip knot. This will yield a small, non-slip knot without alot of bulk. The pictures do this better justice than words.

On the bottom, tie a bowyer's knot (Timber Hitch). The string should be about 2" or so shorter than your bow. Adjust the timber hitch until you get a brace height of 6" for now.

Gently stretch the string while on the bow. It doesn't take much, just pull some of the slack from it.

Readjust the string until the brace height is 5 1/2" to 6".


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## kegan

Now to finish it up. With the string on the bow, serve the middle with thread. You can use tough thread from Walmart, or nylon serving from 3Rivers Archery. Wrap it tightly for the four inches of so above and below where the nock of the arrow lies on the string. When you finish, pull the loose end through the three previous loops around the string and pull tight. Wax the whole string and you're done. For hunters though, a nocking point is helpful. Here, I wrap on on with artificial sinew. A little glue on the nocking point, or pine pitch in my case, will keep it there. And you're done.

Here is a string made in this manner on the white oak longbow I finished up last week. 75# at 27", 70" long.


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## buckshot95

Here she is i love it. i think it turned out really nice. I went to indoor shoot today with it. They were like that thing is so sweet and couple people shot it and like 3-4 people were afaid to shoot it. Like it was going to break on them. :wink:

So to make a string i would to make it 78" long b/c bow is 72" + 6" is that right. Thanks


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## kegan

That is absolutely magnificiant!!!! I wish my first ones were half that good:mg:! Bow, quiver, next you'll have to make some arrows and chase some game with it all.

You'll be amazed at people sometimes. They'll yank an old compound or recurve with a horribly frayed string back willy-nilly, but a perfectly built wooden bow and they think it could kill them. Sheesh!

Yup. The extra length goes to the timber hitch and adjustment.


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## No.1 Hoyt

great bow buckshot very nice.

kegan nice build along. i do mine slightly differently. i do my loops another way but your way is way easier. i want to try it


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan have you been doing the handrill lately:wink:

that is sweet i would show those off


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## buckshot95

thanks you guys. i am going to get a red oak board this week sometime.:wink:


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## b18intega

now to start working on my self bow


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## b18intega

i give up on making a self bow


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## kegan

b18intega said:


> i give up on making a self bow


Don't! It's not hard, just takes a little perseverance!!! Just go at it SLOWLY. Slower you go, the better your chances of getting a good bow. Speed comes from experience. It still takes me about a week to get a bow made.

I have been doing the hand drill, though I've taken a week in the last week (working on arrows). Show what off, the hand drill? I'd love to:wink:!

I like a simple string. Saves time. The string took me about ten minutes i think, and ten for the serving.

This week I should get up photos of a broadhead build along. These are my nicest points to date, on my most accurate arrows. Pictures soon!


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## b18intega

thanks for the encuragement, i have no patcience, i guess the more i try the better i get at bow making...... you need to start selling some of your bows kegan, they are great, you could make some great money this summer for what you love doing, good luck


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## buckshot95

just like me i have tryed to build like 3-4 bow that broke. but i want to make a bow so that is when i went to a board and then i got a bow. i have gained more patcience buy trying to build a bow.:wink:


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## No.1 Hoyt

i would like to see your handrill set up but i mean the calluses


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## No.1 Hoyt

i was shooting my 55# bow and the speed and penetrating power doesnt compare to my 40# bow but after shooting the 55# and then the 40# the 40# is like nothing. I like the 40# still becasue it is soo smooth and easy to shoot and after shooting the heavier one my accuracy with the 40# has gone up


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## kegan

It doesn't take much to make a bow man. Just don't go fast- that's the number one killer of bows. It's not hard.

Like Buckshot said, boards are _much_ easier. 

Callouses, gotcha. And some hand drill stuff.


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## b18intega

i love archery


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## scovill

those are some great build alongs you do kegan.  i found your dbow build to be very helpful. heres my first attempt at a crude selfbow. 


























i was a little unsure of how to do the knocks, i dont think i made them deep enough or did enough of an angle to hold the string securely/safely for shooting. do you have any advice for knocking my next one?


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## kegan

Scovill- that looks good! Post a full-draw picture so we can see the tiller (like Buckshot's above). The nocks look fine- it doesn't take nearly so much. I usually just take the corner out, leaving the tip looking kinda like and "L", holding the string on. Too much cutting makes it weak, and too big a tip makes a bow slow. For your first try though, that looks really good.

David- I still owe you a picture of my hands:wink:


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## buckshot95

that isn't bad for first time my first bow that didn't break came out like that. it came out to be 20# and little bit of limb twist. but didn't hold me back on trying to build another one and it came out nice. 

-I would say try a board because it is alot easyer.:wink:


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## scovill

here it is at full draw. i think it looks pretty good, there may be some slight hinges on the upper limb, but its hard to tell where i should remove more wood because that one limb is wavy. 

im really surprised at how well it shoots. i whittled an arrow out of a scrap stave i made the bow from. at close range, its almost as accurate as my martin. i bet if i got better at arrow making it could be a real shooter.

i also found it interesting how i can change the weight by how tight i string it.

this is very fun hobby, archery and bow making, im definitely hooked for life.. its so satisfying to make the bow and arrow with my own two hands and no modern technology. i feel like it really connects me with ancient times.


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## kegan

You don't see anyhting wrong with it because it has a good tiller! It could bend a little more mid-limb, but it's hardly necessary. And _I'm_ suprised that you're suprised- selfbows are extremely accurate. The only decidign factor in final accuracy is the arrow. I assume, when you're talking about changing the weight, you mean the brace heigt. A note- the lower the brace, the more energy delivered to the arrow- regardless of weight. Longer "power stroke".


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## buckshot95

yeah just like keagan said that looks good because nice tiller. and i would say about foot or foot and a half on the top limb may be a little hinge.
I know one thing i am hooked for life i love doing this stuff build bows arrows and shooting.:wink:


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## scovill

i tapered the tips and now im finishing it with some walnut minwax and then seal it with polyurethane. 

whats the best way to knot a paracord string? i read somewhere to use a double loop, but that leaves the string a little off center and pulling to one side.


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## kegan

Loop knots. The string needn't lay perfectly on center, if it wanders to the side where the arrow rests, it will help accuracy and arrow tuning. Don't know what a double loop is.

Buckshot- glad to hear that! With such a nice ash longbow, I'm glad to hear you're not letting those skills go to waste!


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## hstubblefield

i have thought about building a longbow but i like my compound i am going to order a hoyt game master for hunting some time really quick let the first one just slip away for a low price.


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## kegan

You don't have to give up your compound just because you make a bow. It's more than just a way of getting a new bow too... it's alot of fun just in itself. And there is nothing more fun than shooting a hand made arrow from a bow you crafted yourself twenty five yards into an empty Coke can. You can always shoot your otehr bows for target, or even huntign if you're not comfortable with it, because it is a joy in and of itself.


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan i would post pics of my bow but my camera out of batteries.

i love my new bow it has super flat trajectory and is smokin fast.
this is one bad mother. i need to find out the weight though it max out my 50# scale.

hstubblefield i make bows and i shoot a compound. make yerself a bow. you wont regret it.


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## toyatacoma

buckshot95 said:


> just like me i have tryed to build like 3-4 bow that broke. but i want to make a bow so that is when i went to a board and then i got a bow. i have gained more patcience buy trying to build a bow.:wink:


ya ive snapped three bows but been a little busy but next time i look for sheds ill probably get a tree


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## kegan

I broke maybe twelve bows before I got a good one. Before that, I jsut strung up sticks. Try a hickory board.


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## buckshot95

here all i just built my first bow string. I don't have serving done yet but here is some pics of it.:wink:[/ATTACH]


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## kegan

That's awesome buckshot! Is it the picture, or are your nocks a little big?


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## buckshot95

Kegan- my nocks are little big they are 3/4" yours are 1/2" right.:wink:


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## b18intega

quick question do you dry your stave before splitting and.....what is it called? duh tillering


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## buckshot95

B18intega-You want to split them first it will let the stave dry quicker.


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## b18intega

how long should drying take?


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## buckshot95

If you bring it in to a warm place and kegan says till that it is warm to the tough.like a couple of weeks. don't forget to cover ends of the stave with something like glue so won't split.


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## kegan

Buckshot- mine are about 3/8". As of late I've been trying to milk some mroe cast outta my bows

b18intega- Cut the stave down and then to length. Remove the bark, without cutting the wood beneath. Split from what was the top down. Choose the one and set the other aside in a warm dry place with good ventilation. Oaks, ash, birch, walnut, elm, and the like will take two to three weeks to dry. Hickory will take at least a month (it's a bear, but it's worth it).

Rough the wet stave out to the bow. Final width for the whole length (to prevent warping), and slightly thick. 1 1/2", about 3/4" thick at the grip and 3/8" thick at the tips should take less time than the whole log, and won't check. I wouldn't bother sealing the ends if you thin the piece.

Checks are cause by moisture from the middle trying to escape. Thin pieces essentially have no "middle", and won't check.

Oh yeah, I traded for two bamboo backing strips- one for me, one for my brother. Gonna make a bamboo longbow. Just have to wait for it to arrive and to get some bamboo flooring for the belly. Broadheads are on the back burner til I get a hickory board for arrows (and bows).


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## No.1 Hoyt

OOOO bamboo this wil be cool. how much reflex are you gonna glue in it? 5 or 6". im looking foward to this

i really need to put up my bow but i need to get batteries for my camera


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> OOOO bamboo this wil be cool. how much reflex are you gonna glue in it? 5 or 6". im looking foward to this
> 
> i really need to put up my bow but i need to get batteries for my camera


None. I'm using Titebond II, which I doubt could take so much strain as 6" of reflex. And I like super stable, which means some string follow. Also gotta get a hickory board for arrows and selfbows.

Whenever. As long as we get to see it:wink:!


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## No.1 Hoyt

ya i like my selfbow with a couple inches of deflex but i always heard bamboo takes massive set but you the master so youre probably right


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> ya i like my selfbow with a couple inches of deflex but i always heard bamboo takes massive set but you the master so youre probably right


Hill was the master. Perry reflex is relativley new. I assume I will have to temper the belly is all.


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## buckshot95

i can not wait till you get the bamboo. is it going to hickory bow with bamboo.:wink:


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## kegan

buckshot95 said:


> i can not wait till you get the bamboo. is it going to hickory bow with bamboo.:wink:


I want all boo. Lighter than hickory.


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## kegan

*Broadhead Build Along*

Had some time, so I decided to do the point build along I promised. Remember two things: 1)THESE MAY BE ILLEGAL IN YOUR AREA and 2) ALWAYS WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!!

Old saw blades- circular (here), large bandsaw, and thinner table saw blades all work. Any good steel should work though, these are just the easiest high quality materials you can usually find. 

Draw out the future points basic triangular shape- 2 5/8" long, 1 1/8" wide. I am going to put on "barbs", which lighten long points. More accute blade angle (long blades) give easier penetration, but a ferrule close to the tip gives more power. If barbs are illegal in your area, make it shorter (2"). Draw them so you can get as many as possible- here I got twelve. Placing them side by side usually helps.

Use a dremel with tough mesh disc to score the blade. For the initial beaking up of the large blade, shallow cuts are all that are necessary. Put the blade in the vice, with the score close to it, and use duck bills to snap the blade. When you go to break the points apart, score them much deeper than before- especially at the tip. This is to prevent the tips from breaking off on the other's base.

Use a sharp file to straighten the sides and clean it up. Now to make the "barbs". Measure 1" up from the base and mark it. The base of the barbs should be 3/16" wide tapering to the 1" mark. Score these even more deeply than before- so you're almost through. Then secure it in the vice and snap off with pliers.


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## kegan

Once broken out, use your file to clean them up. Once cleaned, it's time to do something about that point. Being so needle-like, it is very easy to curl. So, we file it into a more blunt angle (45-90). This may take more energy to pierce bones, but it's worth it. 

Now to prepare the hole. 1" from the tip make a mark. Use a metal punch to make a small dent to hold the drill bit there later on. The hole and the vertex of the barbs should be 1/2" from each other.


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## kegan

Using a drill press and a good metal-cutting 1/8" bit, drill a hole at the dent to hand rivet the point to the future point, which, with some epoxy, will hold the point extremely securely. 

Now to sharpen the point. Single bevels have been shown to penetrate better, so we'll use them here. If you are shooting right wing, the bevel wil be on the right side looking at the point flat (note photo). So the same on the other side. The point will now have two edges resembling chisels. Sand them and apply some linseed and you're done. Final sharpening will be done once the head is hafted (which I'll show how to do once I get some shafting material).


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## buckshot95

hey kegan- i am building another bow and the first time i put it on the tiller tree it has a twist in it. i was woulding what is the best way to get it out. Thanks alot Buckshot:wink


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## kegan

buckshot95 said:


> hey kegan- i am building another bow and the first time i put it on the tiller tree it has a twist in it. i was woulding what is the best way to get it out. Thanks alot Buckshot:wink


If the twist is to the side, then put it so the string will rack toward the side that the arrow lies on. If it is back and forth, put it so it's reflex, if it's a propeller twist, as long as it doesn't go more than 30 degrees it's fine. 

If it is really bad, clamp it to a straight board and apply heat the the bent area.


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## buckshot95

ok kegan here is a pic of the twist see if it is still ok.


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## b18intega

i dont think that is that bad of a twist if you ask me but kegan will know what to do


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## master hunter

sweet broad heads kegan!!!


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## kegan

That's fine buckshot. I've worked with alot worse. Thanks hunter.


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## PSE CRAZY

hey kegan just bought a red oak board today! will start on a bow when i get time!:tongue:


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## scovill

id be happy to get a bow half that straight


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## No.1 Hoyt

AWESOME trade points. now that i see how its done it doesnt look too hard.

those look like deer slayers to me


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## kegan

PSE CRAZY said:


> hey kegan just bought a red oak board today! will start on a bow when i get time!:tongue:


Excellent! You should find that making a longbow that bends the whole length from a board will be a pretty simple process. Should be able to be shooting your new bow the next day.


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## No.1 Hoyt

o and buckshot how do you find a board with grain that straight?:wink:


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## No.1 Hoyt

here is my bow i just finished

it pull in the upper 50s @ 28"
it is backed with linen and painted black.
it is 2" wide at midlimb and the last 15" taper to 3/8" at the nock
it is 66" long ntn
I love this bow!! it screams an arrow it is smokin fast.
speaking of arrows if anyone wants to see arrows i make out of multiflora rose(you know that annoying thron bush in the woods) i can post pics


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## b18intega

post some picks i was in my woods to day and ran across a green snake, 2nd snake this year so far so i gotta stay outa the woods. i almost got bit by a copperhead last year so if i go out i take my bow with the gobbler guitine and shoot them:wink: i also cut my nuckels today with a box cutter so in not bow making right now


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## armyboy

b18intega said:


> post some picks i was in my woods to day and ran across a green snake, 2nd snake this year so far so i gotta stay outa the woods. i almost got bit by a copperhead last year so if i go out i take my bow with the gobbler guitine and shoot them:wink: i also cut my nuckels today with a box cutter so in not bow making right now


if you have a 22lr or a shot gun they work best on snakes. Guitines are $$$$$, and will probably break and get dull real QUICK. i hate copperheads!!!! there was a nest in our creek last summer... i will i could take a gun out there and show them want it means to be a snake and be around me! in south carolina there was a nest in our pond and my brother would get a bunch in his mino traps. he would shoot there heads off with 22s! my brother almost stepped on one but the mower copped it up first!


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## scovill

nice boy hoyt. i read this somewhere but i cant find it, is the upper limb suppose to be longer or was it the lower limb? the bow im working on now has a 29" upper and 27" lower, should i shorten the upper limb or is it good?


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## buckshot95

i got the board from my grandmas work. and got to look around for the right one it isn't to stright get to mid-limb and get a little squirly but all right.

very sweet bow awesome!!!!!!!!! post the pics of your arrows can't wait.:wink:


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## b18intega

armyboy said:


> if you have a 22lr or a shot gun they work best on snakes. Guitines are $$$$$, and will probably break and get dull real QUICK. i hate copperheads!!!! there was a nest in our creek last summer... i will i could take a gun out there and show them want it means to be a snake and be around me! in south carolina there was a nest in our pond and my brother would get a bunch in his mino traps. he would shoot there heads off with 22s! my brother almost stepped on one but the mower copped it up first!


it is worth it though for my saftey and my beagle is great on spotting snakes(cotton mouths and rattlers and copperheads) but not any non pounious snakes so i guess i could take my shotty with me that and i need to go in the woods all the time to find staves:wink:, man i hate those copperheads to death to them:thumbs_do


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## b18intega

no. 1 hoty holy crap your grip looks great it looks so comfortable i wish it was my bow:wink:


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## scovill

heres my 2nd selfbow. it bends alot more in the limbs than my first one. it looks like it bends heavily in the middle of the limb, then straightens out from there to tips. does that mean it has hinges or is it normal? 


























also, can you get the poundage from using just one of those tillering boards or do you add some kind of gauge that tells the weight?


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## kegan

Nice David! And yes, I would like to see those arrows. I was gathering sourwood for a trade and cut some. Want to see what can be made form this stuff:wink:

Forget rifles for snakes- a blunt to the head will do it every time, with half as much trouble. Skins make good backings, and the meat is pretty good too. My brother had a .22 ricochet when shooting at a snake, and shotguns just destroy what little meat there is. Last time I shot a snake with a shotgun the whole thing went to waste. Besides, longbows are more fun- hitting a half dollar sized target (the head) is always good practice.

scovill- the limbs can, and should, be the same length. Also, you limbs are bending too much right out of the fades- remove wood from the middle of the limbs so it bends in a nice even semi-circle. A tillering board just check the bend, but you can use it to test the bend by putting it between the string and a bathroom scale and pushing down until you reach your draw length. It will read your bow weight.


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## PSE CRAZY

here are pictures of just the top limb of the bow, the bottom limb has been stated but not as far as the top.
let me know what you think and if there is anything that should be taken off. it bends pretty good and is pretty even when bending.:darkbeer:


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## kegan

Try a more straight and even taper. For best results, take a yard stick and make a line on each side from 3/4" striaght to 5/16" at the tips. Use a plane or what not to reduce to the lines. This usually winds up so you have to do vyer little tillering. 

Other than that, looks excellent!

Got some stuff in the works, so watch for:

1. Pics of a short bow for a contest (39" deflexed recurve)
2. Bamboo backed hickory longbow
3. new board bow build along (much better this time)
4. new arrow build along, with how to haft the points shown above

So keep an eye open in the coming few weeks.


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## No.1 Hoyt

wow i cant wait to see those especially the hickory backed boo or is it the other way around? 

i made a 38" bow with a 16" draw it small but deadly:wink: it was for a little project nothing serious. i cant wait to see yours.

how do you have time for this and school?


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> wow i cant wait to see those especially the hickory backed boo or is it the other way around?
> 
> i made a 38" bow with a 16" draw it small but deadly:wink: it was for a little project nothing serious. i cant wait to see yours.
> 
> how do you have time for this and school?


Boo backed hickory board. Gonna try for 90# on it.

Did you see the back pack bow challenge on PA? Kyle and I are trying with two sister staves from a hickory we dropped a week or two ago. Gonna try and make this one a "looker". Any ideas?

Magic:wink:!


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## No.1 Hoyt

holy crap thats alot of bow 90#

ya i saw it i posted on the first page i think. i will try it soon i think
a short osage bow with a linen back hopefully from a 36" bow i could get a 20" draw that pushing it though i think

if yer gonna make it a looker i would just make sure its sanded more and a nice stain and go the extra mile and just add a few "touches" i dont really know hwat i would do with athat probably just like i would do my normal bow just witout a riser

teach me this magic:wink:


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## PSE CRAZY

kegan i have a string that is 60in would it work for a 66in bow if the nock were 1in from the tips?(64in from nock to nock):darkbeer:


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## hstubblefield

hey kegan have u ever thought of trying to sell them bows u could make lots of money


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## No.1 Hoyt

PSE CRAZY said:


> kegan i have a string that is 60in would it work for a 66in bow if the nock were 1in from the tips?(64in from nock to nock):darkbeer:


that might work but it could be a bit short. try it and see 
if its too short untwist it some to make it longer.


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## b18intega

ya id make or buy an new string. That would make your drawlenght shorter and has more of a chance of breaking the limbs


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## kegan

60" is too short, most of my strings are just a little bit shorter than the actual bow. You'll have an excessively high brace. Making a bow string is a piece of cake though.

hstubblefield- not really. I couldn't see charging more than $150 for an average bow, but after materials, time, and the 11% FEDERAL TAX ON ARCHERY EQUIPMENT I would probabaly go outta business pretty quick. Making all your stuff by hand does that.

David- yup, 90#. Should be able to shoot it without trouble- making it is the tough part.

Yeah, 20" out of 36" is pushing it. I've got some ideas- a deflexed recurve, string bridges, and a couple other tricks. Gonna try for a 24"-26" out of a 39 3/4" hickory bow. Osage shoudl probabaly work better than hickry, so you might eb able to do it. Have you seen any of Sean's bows? I think he got a 24" draw out of a 42" Osage bow.

Sounds like a plan. Think I'm gonna paint her up on the dark cloth backing. Still got some work to do though.

Study hall and doing homework selectively. That and little social life:wink:


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## scovill

thanks for the tips kegan. i think ill get me one of those tillerboards. i removed some wood from the lower limb, looks like it bends alot better now, but it still has that heavy curve out of the fade.. im afraid if i remove too much the lower limb may be too weak, i read the lowerlimb should be slightly stiffer.. whada ya think? should i remove a little more?


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## kegan

scovill said:


> thanks for the tips kegan. i think ill get me one of those tillerboards. i removed some wood from the lower limb, looks like it bends alot better now, but it still has that heavy curve out of the fade.. im afraid if i remove too much the lower limb may be too weak, i read the lowerlimb should be slightly stiffer.. whada ya think? should i remove a little more?


Nope- that's fine! Is your wood wet? Seems that in the last few pictures that it was a little green. It should gain weight if you let it sit in the sun and wind for a week.


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## scovill

it shouldnt be too wet, its been drying for over a month. you say set it directly in the sun? would that not cause it to warp?


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## tylerolsen12

nice bow scovil


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## b18intega

im jelous :wink:


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## PSE CRAZY

Bow Report- NOT GOOD!! I made the bow and was tillering it. Got a little overseles and took to much off the top limb. so now i have a 66in 25 pound bow. It looks nice but doesnt shoot that great. 

I will be getting a new piece of wood in a few days and will try it again and shoot for a little mor weight this time. i have no problem with the one i have now it is very durable and did not crack at all.


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## kegan

scovill- it would only warp if it was sopping wet, if you had jsut cut it. Being a month, it should be fine.

PSE crazy- try these dimensions:

Length: twice your draw plus 16"

Width: the handle and middle two feet is 1 1/2" wide, from there tapering striaght to 3/8" nocks. Remember to round the back edges to prevent fracture.

Thickness: the middle section (the handle) is 3/4" thick, tapering STRAIGHT to 5/16" tips. No extra thick handle. 

This is my, and my brother's I believe, favorite style. Most of our bows are 60+#, with my favorites being upwards of 80# or so. This doesn't have a "handle" per se, but bends the whole length, but is very easy to make, accurate, and fast. If you want a handle bow, make one in the style first- it should be well worth it. You don't know, you might really like it.


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## b18intega

got good news i got enough bamboo for 30 staves, i can mess up all i want and i know where to get like 1000 on a road i live by it is great:wink:


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## kegan

b18intega said:


> got good news i got enough bamboo for 30 staves, i can mess up all i want and i know where to get like 1000 on a road i live by it is great:wink:


Make sure that if you're backing a board with it, it's strong enough in compression to take the stress of boo. Should yield a rela nice bow if you do.

Still waiting for the hickory board, but here is the short bow (so far) and the arrows I made up for it today. The bow is soaked so I have to let it dry.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats awesome!
cold you give me the dimeansions on that bow? what did you use it to back it? did you use a form to recurve it? if i dont have a form could i bend it over my knee?

can you shoot that thing very accurately?


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> thats awesome!
> cold you give me the dimeansions on that bow? what did you use it to back it? did you use a form to recurve it? if i dont have a form could i bend it over my knee?
> 
> can you shoot that thing very accurately?


1 3/4" wide over most of the length, just under 40", working recurves, about 1/4" thick at the center, tapering to 3/32" (I'm guessing) tips. I haven't shot it, as the wood is still veyr green (the only way I do recurves is with green wood over a form). I backed it with some cloth I got from my mom. Cotton I think. You could recurve it over your knee, but it would be static though- so it would only be good only longer bows. 

I doubt I will be able to. I'm very used to a full cheek draw and 27" draw length with a long, strong, stable bow. This will be a very close range weapon.

I'm trying to get some arrows and wood for a new bow. I'm wanting to increase my bow weight and I don't have any wood that would work. I'll keep you all posted. So I probabaly won't be get alot of new stuff up until then.


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## b18intega

the boo is drying right now ill post some pics soon


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## b18intega

kegan said:


> Make sure that if you're backing a board with it, it's strong enough in compression to take the stress of boo. Should yield a rela nice bow if you do.
> 
> Still waiting for the hickory board, but here is the short bow (so far) and the arrows I made up for it today. The bow is soaked so I have to let it dry.


no its gunna be all boo


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## kegan

b18intega said:


> no its gunna be all boo


Remember to pull it into reflex when you glue it all up- bamboo lackes compression strength.


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## kegan

Okay, so I've got a few things that I'm wanting to work on:

1. few dozen hickory hutning arrows
2. bamboo backed hickory bow (90#)
3. short backpack bow(45+#)
4. hickory backed red oak bow(90#)

I've got to wait until I get the hickory board for 1, 2, and 4 (which I also need a red oak board for).

I've got a red oak selfbow that I'm working on right now though, which should be up in a day or two (80+# hopefully).


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## kegan

Of course, there has been a change in plans. 

So I may not be able to get th hickory board, so I'm kinda stuck on arrows, and that means no bamboo-backed hickory.

_But_ it does mean bamboo backed crabapple. Crabapple is one of the densest wild woods I have access to. So when I started debarking a particularly rough piece, I just figured, "what the hey?" and used the table saw to cut it into a 1 5/8" by 1" board. It's drying right now. Provided it doesn't check badly (which, being so thin, it shouldn't) it should make one powerful, and extremely visually appealing, longbow. 

Given the average temperature, sunshine, and wind, it should be dried by next weekend, so I'll start work then. WOuld anyone be interested in a build along for this bow? If so, let me know.

I also intend to do another board bow build-along in the comimg month or two, and am finishing up the short back pack bow this week.


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## No.1 Hoyt

i always change my plans it goes from one thing to another:

but i think craab apple is alot cooler it something different. i like to try other things

i wish i had access to a table saw i could get alot of use out of it


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## bowman1964

just finished my new bow and am staining it!
it is about 55# (just perfect) I still need to find some leather to make a handle with but i have shot it and it shoots good and is fast!
I will have pictures of it soon!:darkbeer:


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## bowman1964

woops posted on my dad's again. its PSE CRAZY


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## No.1 Hoyt

cant wait to see your bow PSE isnt it addictive?:wink:

Kegan can i set up a guide on my bandsaw and saw a hickory log up like you did on your crab apple?

it realtively small about 6' long and no more than 3" tapering to 2 1/2 to 2"


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## b18intega

post somore pics


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## kegan

Can't wait to see it PSE crazy!

David- yeah, and the crab apple is very appealing to the eye- like a light Osage almost. Veyr stiff too- should easily make a nice 90# bow. Funny, my brother and I keep wishing we had access to a bandsaw for bow making. You could use your bandsaw to cut up a hickory tree, BUT- my father's table saw has a _bear_ of a time cutting wet hickory (which is what you will almost always be cutting). Unless you have a big one, I would take it down with a hatchet and then use your bandsaw and guide to clean it up. Oh- remember to keep any strips you cut off, as they might be able to be used for backings later. You'll find that it's about as easy as building a bow form a board- except hickory doesn't need a backing.

I've finally got arrows in the works! Found some dry-ish hickory splits. Should be done by the end of the week. 

Something occured to me the other day- would anyone like to know how to shoot split-vision? It's the style that Hill invented. It's quite accurate with practice, especailly at a distance, and I've become quite the shot using it, despite my bad eyes.


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## No.1 Hoyt

crab apple will be sweet i cant wait to see it.

Our bandsaw had a heck of a time cutting the hickory so i didnt go in farther than a couple inches so i will use a hatchet or a drawknife. btw it 60" stave so what would be a good design to get a 26" draw from it? If i violate the rings do i still need to back it? it has some of the tnnest rings i have seen.
i will definately save strips for sure. 

I got a ton more osage but some of it is wet. so i have enough for about 7 bows now the grain is really straght so i could leave it unbacked

one of these bows is going to my brother as his college graduation present. it will be his first primitive/trad bow.

i really want to see your arrows. i am going to start some arrows soon


i would love to know HIlls split vision. i have heard so many things about it and i want to get more accurate


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## Miamidlp6

I've sent u a few Messges askin a few things


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## kegan

David- This piece of crabapple is a real beaut. Being a board, it will also be pretty easy to make (once the boo is prepared). 

Hickory is a beast. It won't need a backing (as long as you tiller it slowly). Try a deflexed-recurve, bending the wood over a small wooden form with some dry heat while the wood is still green. A 60", 2"-2 1/2" wide limbs, and with deflexed limbs tipped with working recurves should be perfect. You could leave it as a straight D bow, but I hunted with one like that last year and couldn't hit a thing.

Sounds good! Dont forget to post some pictures for some of us who don't get to play with the golden wood:wink:!

Okay, here's how to shoot split-vision:

To get started, look at a light switch or what not with both eyes open. Concentrate your eyes and mind on it. Now, bring your right finger up (if you shoot right handed) and point at a spot down and to the left- _without moving your focus from the switch!_ It will be difficult at first to see the finger in your peripheral vision and not look directly at it, but soon you will be able to do it with easy. _How intensly you focus on the center of the target, the more accurately you will shoot_. One of the biggest detriments to this style of shooting is shifting your focus from the switch to your finger and back. After a while of practice you will find this easy though, so don't be discrouraged (just remember that the finger/arrow tip will be a little blurry).

Now, when you go to shoot (like at the bottle), stand facing the targetso your body is facing it at a roughly 45* angle to the right (if you shoot right handed). Bring the bow up as you draw, pointing your hand (and the arrow) at the target as you bring your fingers back to your anchor (middle finger in the corner of your mouth is one of the easiest). Concetrate on the target (the small red dot) and note the arrow tip as a blur in your peripheral vision. While maintaining a tight focus on the center of your target, place the tip of the arrow on a spot down and to the right of the target (for close range) and release. If you chose the correct spot, and maintained a tight focus on the center of your target, you should be able to strike the target with ease. 

You will find, at first, that it's hard to find the spot to point the arrow. Have no fear. If your arrows fly alike, you will be able to compensate for the next one. After a day or two of practice, you should be able to consistently hit your target 8 out of 10 arrows.

When you begin to vary distances, remember that, if your arrows are well matched to your bow, the only variable is lateral (up and down) and won't need any shift left and right (at least not alot). Regular practice will allow you to calculate the distance, draw and anchor, pick the peripheral spot, and shoot- all in a matter of a few seconds. The more you shoot, the more natural it will be to pick the spot (the "+" below") without thinking, while maintaining total focus on the center of the target (the red dot). Plan to spend a few weeks getting used to it. Once you do, however, you will find it so easy to shoot not only close, but out to thirty or forty yards with accuracy. 

If you are having trouble, and are finding yourself concentrating more on the point of the arrow than the target, try ignoring the point for a bit. Just concetnrate on the target, maintain good form, and just point yuor finger at the target. This should help your body get the idea of where to point, without thinking about it.

Get a smooth rhythm down. Draw the arrow, nock the arrow, draw, aim, and loose in one smooth, fluid motion. It should take about five to seven seconds to do all this. Don't draw the arrow quickly, place it on the bow, yank the string back, and hold it for ten seconds as you try and aim the point- it won't work that way. Smooth fluid movements, and a tight concentration on the center of the target will give you good accuracy, as the point of aim will help ensure it- not garuntee it.

Shooting a longbow is actually alot faster than a modern compound- in the time it takes a compounder to launch three arrows, a good lognbowman could shoot maybe nine or ten. Therfore, once you get the rhythm and accuracy of shooting down, you can begin to shoot slightly more quickly. You can actually shoot more accurately this way, as you don't let yourself overthink the shot. 

The point of aim will be different for everyone, and ever bow and arrow set. Hoewever, if you adjust the point of aim as you continue to shoot, you will find you should be able to adjust your point of aim in a few shots and be able to shoot with accuracy veyr quickly.

It helps to learn on set distances so you will know where to place the point when you shot in the field. However, nothing beats practice for good accuracy. Hope this helps, feel free to ask me about it (it's alot simpler than I make it out to be).


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## No.1 Hoyt

Sweet! thanks that really helps. i really want to try it out now.
i cant wait to see your crab apple bow. that will be sweet

i will post pics of my yellow wood soon but now i have had a few late grades so their down a bit now so i wont be doing much bow stuff and i keep on forgetting to turnin my handwriting (ya we have handwriting:sadand music assignment so those are really low now

and we are getting our 5 week mini report card things so witht those missing assignments they will go down as 0 for that because the teachers entered the grades today. but as soon as i ge them back in they will be up again.
this is too bad becasue usually my grades are really good


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## HoytHelixBoy

wow, The bows that u have made look great, u r very skilled. 
i think it is cool that you not only bulid them but shoot them 2, i cant imagine a better feeling then shooting a bow that you made from the ground up.

Anywas its great to see some1 making a shooting bows , and not those bloody machines with training wheels.

keep up the great work kegan, the bows look great.:set1_applaud:


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## kegan

Glad it helps. Since using it, I've been able to hit whatever I want (provided I practice) out to 35 yards. I'll post lots of pitures when I get the bow done. 

Can't wait til you get back, sorry to hear you didn't get the stuff in.

HoytHelixBoy- Thanks! They're beautiful beasts, longbows. When the arrows aren't hitting the target I know it's me, so I never have to worry about "tuning". It is a wonderful feeling, watching a wooden arrow you made yourself fly striaht to the mark forty yards away from a bow you built.


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## kegan

I've been experimenting with ferrules over the last couple days, but it didn't go well. So I'll be trying to get the arrows up soon. I have to work with the weights. The broadheads come out well- a little over 800 grains, but the blunts are only about 700. I gotta make them heavier. When I'm done I'll show 'em. I'm working on arrows like crazy, but want to get a few new bows made up. Whatever I get done I'll put up.


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## kegan

I do not like arrow testing. Making arrows is alot of work, especially when you don't know whether they will work or not. For those of you interested in traditional/primitive archery, here's some advice: when you find an arrow that works, stick with it. Don't try for "better".

I'm working on an almost-finished-elm flatbow for my father. Should get at least it up this weekend.


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## WOWcham

My board bow is looking great i got it all tillered and shapped out last night/today. its going to be 6' in length and i am not shure what length i should make the string.I have another board that i am going to make into a 66"er what size string should i use for that? i am going to use para cord


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## kegan

My brother and I cut a small red oak tree today- two staves each (red oak is an amazing wood- so easily split and worked). I should have a longbow and a shorter flatbow up in a few weeks. The bamboo backed crabapple is on hold as the piece is taking so long to cure.

I'll get pictures up of the bows in progress tomarrow.


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## scovill

what are some ways to avoid string follow when making a new bow? 
i know one is to not bend it too much when the wood is still wet, but i didnt do that and still ended up with pretty bad set/deflex in the limbs.


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## kegan

Stressing a bow too soon, or too much will cause the majority of the set in a bow. So:

- tiller slowly. Once you get it bending at brace height perfectly, leave it there for a few hours before continueing. 

- make sure you aren't underbuilding your design. That means that make sure the wood isn't being stressed too much for a given draw length and weight. Making a bow twice your draw length plus 16" is a good way to start. For shorter bows (66" or so) make the limbs a full 2" wide.

- NEVER USE GREEN WOOD! Hickory epspecially- it took me forever to realize that I wasn't doing any good rushing a hickory bow into existence when wet. Some woods dry quicker than others, but some, like hickory, can take up to a year to cure properly. Oaks usually take two or three weeks in a warm, dry, well ventilated area. Denser woods will take slightly longer, and less dense woods might not take as long.

-use the right design for your wood. If you want a 60#@ 30" bow, don't make it 1 1/4" wide and 62" long and expect it to stand perfectly straight. Get mroe wood working- which means make it longer or wider- or both.

-don't leave a bow strung when not in use, and don't brace it too high. An inch for ever foot in length is good.

Some set is natural, heck, even with really heavy bows 3" of set could mean very little. If a bow follows the string more than 2" though, you probabaly broke one of the rules above, whether on accidnet or on purpose. For stronger bows, some set can make them more accurate.


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## WOWcham

Here are some pics i took last night

http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/Twoheal/


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## kegan

Looks good! Form what it seems, the limb on the left of the tiller picutre seems stiffer? Can't wait to see more

Here are some works in progress:

The two bows clamped to the board are red oak- the shorter flatbow and the longbow. I'm trying to striaghten out the longbow to make tapering easier later. The faltbow's limbs were offset, so I'm trying to correct it by bending the grip. Hopefully by the time they dry (three weeks or so) all shall be well. The flatbow shall be a "work art"- I'm going to do alot of extras on it to try and make it pretty, and only going for about 70# in draw weight. The longbow is going to be a utilitarian hunting bow, hopefully pulling about 80#.

The longbow in the back is elm, and slightly longer than I normally make my bows. This species of elm is slightly softer and weaker in tension, so I'm trying to overbuild it enough to make a shooter (at 80#-90#) out of it. I made it from a stave I got in January, and had left the bark on. It's at 17% MC right now, so in a week or two I should be able to start final workings.

The two halves of hickory logs on the right are for arrows. I finally got a design that works perfectly (3/8" hickory, 28 1/2" for blunts, 29" for broadheads, tapering in the last 10" to about 5/16" at the nock, 1/8" offset helical) so I want to make up a test batch to test them fully.

Of course, all of this is still drying. I'll keep you posted as things come up though- hopefully I can get the logs cut up and doweled sometime this week.


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## WOWcham

I think the light is creating an optical illution on the limb in the pic. i am going to back it today with some nice brown paper i found. that machete really did a good job on the bow and the planer save alot of time.I have some white shoe string, do you think this would make a nice handle? I frogot to ask would would glue work for the backing?


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## make or break

This is my first bow! (And post)

I just started the tillering.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/thadds/Picture1715.jpg


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## kegan

WOWcham- Probabaly is. When a bow seems to be so close to being tillered right off the bat it can get confusing (you're mind is set on looking for problems). String wrapping the grip does make a really nice handle. Regular wood glue will work for the backing. Titebond II or III being the best. If the grain runs straight from one end to the other you might not need one.

make or break- Welcome, and excellent bow so far! Your tillering set up looks really good as well!


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## WOWcham

kegan said:


> WOWcham- Probabaly is. When a bow seems to be so close to being tillered right off the bat it can get confusing (you're mind is set on looking for problems). String wrapping the grip does make a really nice handle. Regular wood glue will work for the you might not need one.backing. Titebond II or III being the best. If the grain runs straight from one end to the other
> 
> I used the string method and it was off a little so i planned it down, i also decided to keep it unbacked. i would have to order the para cord ofline and really dont want to so is there any substitutes i can use that i can get at the hardware store also will just plain wood stain work for the finishing?


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## scovill

thats some great info kegan. i definitely broke rule number one, i skipped that part completely. after its dry i went right ahead to full draw to check and finish the tiller. i can see how that would stress the wood. giving it a few hours to settle in at brace height sounds very good.
i read somewhere the other day that a bow is like a child, very impresionable when its young, so whatever you do to it then will stay with it forever.

a paracord grip feels real nice, especially with finger grooves carved underneath. i found some hemp cord at walmart, 170 lb strength, perfect width for a bowstring. would also make a good handle. its more primitive looking than paracord, and easier on the fingers.


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan thats sweet stuff right there. i cant wait to see those bows and arrows. you do great work
i have some ramin wood dowels i am going to make arrows from

scovill i read that thing aboiut bows are like young children i thought it wasa funny comparison and awesome hemp string. next time i go to walmart i will look for somw


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## scovill

youll find it in the crafts section. theres 3 different sizes, 8 bucks will get the largest size, thats the one i got. i also found some fat 7/16" dowels in the same place, they feel like a much stronger wood compared to the thinner ones. nice grain and straighter too. it feels like im cheating though. kegans doing it the right way :wink:


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## No.1 Hoyt

kegan is the man! but the arrows i make from things are find are from shoots such as multiflora rose and such split timber shafts are difficult for me i made one and i will not make another for a while


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## No.1 Hoyt

be sure you dont use that on a bow over 40 lbs or it could break


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## scovill

yeah a read of a case where one split in half and went through the guy's arm. that would be quite a surprise when your getting all zen concentrating on your form. but i also read saxton pope and art young prefered raminwood birch arrows because they could get them already in dowel form. and im pretty sure they shot heavier weight bows for hunting.


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## No.1 Hoyt

sorry i meant your bowstring. your string has to be 4x the pull of your bow
40x4=160 its pretty close


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## kegan

David's right- your bowstring should be four times your bow weight. You might be able to buy linen thread at Wal Mart or something and make a bow string like I showed with the Dacron- just use more strands (about 30-40). And plain wood stain works perfectly- if you look back, it's what my brother used on his. 

As for arrows, dowels aren't cheating. I'm going to be trying true birch dowels for arrows with my brother sometime soon. If they work, I'll be able to cheaply get them in bulk and should be set for arrows. I go through the trouble of cutting up hickory logs because hickory makes such an amazing arrow, not because it's more primitive (I make sourwood and multiflora shoot arrows as well, which are more primitive, but don't come in bulk and aren't as tough). Hickory is as tough- if not tougher- than modern carbon arrows, fly well, and hit very hard. They also hold up well to rivetting the point striaght to the shaft.

Pope and Young shot 75# longbows on average, Young shooting up to 90# later on. They used true birch dowels (not ramin, which came around later and is a foriegn wood). Birch is rather light though, as they shot long distances (50-100 yards) at game. 3/8" dowels will work perfectly for arrows, with 5/16" being good for 40# bows and 7/16" being good for war arrows. Check the grain, as the strength comes from straight grain, not size.

And yes, rushing a bow into existence is a no-no, and will make a very weak shooter. It also means your wood is probabaly a little green, as it didn't break right off the bat.

Anyone really interested in making your own bows and hunting with them, I encourage reading some of the old timer's books. _Hunting with the Bow and Arrow_ by Saxton Pope, _Hunting the Hard Way_ by Howard Hill, and _The Witchery of Archery_ by Maurice Thompson are the best and originals. Besides telling how to make and shoot your bows and arrows, they also have thrilling tales about hunting with the longbow on all sorts of game. If you buy nothing elese for archery, buy this. They are well worth every penny and should be in every archer's library- no matter what he shoots.

And here's a test on whether you have a good bow and arrow combination- stand at 40 yards and shoot at the target. A good set will be able to shoot, accurately, to the target with minimal elevation (when shooting split vision, it should be just slightly over the top and to the right- about 6"-10" higher). An excellent combinaiton should be able to shoot out to 50-60 yards without having to elevate more than 18-20".


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## WOWcham

I have decided to use my second board for my sister to shoot with and make it #25 do you have any idea how thin i should taper a 66" bow or should i just keep takeing wood of. She has a 25" draw lenght.


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## kegan

Hmmm... try 5/8" at the middle, and 1/4" at the tips.

From what I understand, my folks need to go up by Home Depot on Saturday- which means red oak boards. I plan on gettign several, and can doing two build alongs- a D bow and a stiff handled bow longbow (which most of you seem enamored with). I'll keep you posted.


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## kegan

*American ideas better?*

www.kevinboone.com/traditional_archery_faq.html

Either this guy is speaking on behalf of a community that knows more than him, or American primitive bowyers/bowhunters are better at archery. He talks about how selfbows are inaccurate, short term, and difficult to make.

Then again, it shows how anyone who doesn't work with selfbows alot gets a really messed up view. Moral of the story, don't trust _anyone_ when they're talking about selfbows unless you know they've made lots of them, and use them extensively.

_And_ all those yew bows that were toted as the best by early archers turn out to be inferior to the white wood sticks we make here.


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## make or break

I looked at that site yesterday. I didn't read much really. 
I'd like to make a quiver like this though http://www.kevinboone.com/bowbag.jpg

I'm going really slow with the tillering. The scale we have is broken so I need to get a new one. Also the left limb (?) doesn't seem to be bending enough. Should I take more off at the ends?
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/thadds/Picture1727.jpg


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## kegan

Seems good to me. Just go slow and it should work fine.


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## No.1 Hoyt

hey kegan i debarked and straightened some spice bush shoots they are hard to find long enough shoots but it should make a great arrow. i am really excited to finish these. i think i will permantly switch from multiflora rose to these they are so much better. easier to straighten and solid wood all the way through so they will be much more durable. they do have a strong smell though.

thanks for telling me that split vision. yesterday i hit a 1 1/2"x2 1/2" target from 20 yards and i was consistently within 3-4" i was very happy with this


i didnt read that whole article but selfbows are very accurate, easy to make, and a good selfbow will outlast its maker


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## kegan

Whatever works man, try it! Solid wood arrows are a bit tougher than "weed" shoots, except for canes and bamboos of course, and you should also have less trouble with getting consistent spine, as you can just sand the middle if it is too stiff. 

No problem- glad to help. I've gotten so accurate with it that I can split a plant stem at five yards, and peg the center of the target- on a good day- out to about 45 yards. 

Yup. Yew's not so great a wood as it was thought to be- fragile, and tough to get. Now we've got red oak boards.

I'm finishing up my first small set of tapered hickory arrows- three blunts. I've got to cut up another log, and the finish them out to more blunts and broadheads, but better than nothing. I'll let you all know how they work tonight.


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## kegan

Well, I finished them up- they're excellent flyers! One of them was a little off in spine, and later broke while adjusting it. I've got some more logs to work into arrows, but I am really wanting to try birch dowels- we're ordering soon.

Tomarrow I should be able to start on the build alongs. I'll do the D bow first, stiff handled second. As that's the order a novice bowyer should try them.

I'll keep you posted.


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## kegan

Things are gonna get pretty busy for me soon, so I'll give you a heads up.

I got the boards today. Due to poor grain in the 1x2's of red oak, I only got one, and it has some bend to it, which will make the build along harder, but doable. I promised it to another archer, so I'l get it done up soon this week. 

With the single 1x2, I got a 1x4, from which I'll cut three "staves"- all for laminate bows. One will be 1 3/8" wide, two will be 1 1/8" wide, and all will be backed with hickory. So the stiff handled build along will take a while, as I need to cut the hickory up, and will be more complicated than I thought it would be. I might also just take pictures as my brother builds one of his bows (he is doing a flatbow- with deep handle).

Along with the build-along and laminates, I am alos working on the red oak flatbow, and an elm longbow. I also have a bunch of arrows to make up. Even more than I did before as I'm down to one arrow again- because I "Robin Hooded" an arrow this morning. Fifteen yards at a stump, I took a total of seven seconds for both shots.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats sweet kegan. i cant wait to see your bows. i really like laminate bows ,less primitive but i like them alot. 
my next bow will be an osage bow but i dont know when i will start it.

AWESOME robinhood and with a selfbow! now thats something to be proud of:shade:


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## buckshot95

sweet kegan at a hood with a selfbow!:thumbs_up


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## WOWcham

I worked on my second board bow this weekend and i messed up the knocks and cut it down 4" 2 on each side, other than that it has turned out well. I am going to back this one because i want the experiance and i am going to have my sister put a design on the paper to make the bow her own. will get pics up when complete....


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## kegan

David- laminates aren't rally less primitive, as there were some Europeans who glued and tied birch and spruce together to make bows (which they also used as ski poles). Besdies, I'm not really going for primitive, just meat making. 

Can't wait to see your Osage! Been wanting to try Osage myself as of late.

Thanks guys! I'd be more proud if it didn't mean I have to go make more arrows. 

WOWCham- can't wait to see it! I'm intending on painting some designs on the back of one of the laminates (which, as it stands, is three, all 1 1/4" wide, with a slightly deepened handle), and need all the inspiration I can get:wink:.

I'm going to try and start on the build along tonight. Should at least get it roughed out. To save time, I'll give you the list of materials now:

- 1x2x 6' red oak board (really 1 1/2" by 3/4") with perfectly straight grain and no flawes (if you desire a draw longer than 28", by a 7' board)
- 4" vise
- hatchet (sharp, preferably with a handle that allows you to "choke up" on the head for more accurate strokes) or sharp, sturdy machete
- rasps and a scraper (your pocket knife will suffice for a scraper)
- drawknife or hand plane (if you can't get either, a rasps will work fine, but will just take longer)
- B-50 dacron string for the finished bow
- 7' of parachute cord for tillering
- tillering stick (a 36" 1x2 with notches cut into the side is perfect, and you may want tobuy your piece of red oak longer just to make one)
- pencil and yardstick (a spring clamp to hold it in place on the stave is helpful)
- several pieces of top grain leather to build up the handle for comfort, and some leather or string to wrap it up for looks
- finish of sorts. Tru-Oil, floor or furniture wax (my favorite is floor wax), or polyurethane will all work.

This bow will have no backing, so construction is more delicate and there can be _*no*_ rushing what so ever. This bow wil also be designed to shoot slightly faster, and with less hand shock- and you should be able to shoot your lighter aluminum or carbon arrows out of it (but I wouldn't recomend doing so for hunting). While at Home Depot or Lowes, look for STRAIGHT GRAINED 3/8" red oak dowels. These will make excellent arrows, and my brother purchased a dozen for $12.

None the less, expect to work on this bow for several days to a week, as more time and care will only result in greater chances of a perfectly working bow.


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## No.1 Hoyt

lol using bows as ski poles:teeth:
i cant wait to see your laminates they should be really cool. isnt 1 1/4 a bit narrow especially with a red oak core? i would go for something like 1 3/4 but i have never madea a laminate so maybe those are different. these bows will be sweet though

i cant wait for this build along. your build alongs are always very helpful and informative.


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## kegan

David- It is, but I can get three from the board that way, and intend to leave them long and almost D tillered. The only problem would be them coming in under weight.

Also, anyone following this build along will be advised not to stray too far from the instructions. That means _no cutting in handles_, or messing with tillering steps- which means no bracing and pulling to full draw once you have it roughed out. This design will be built for performance, but is less durable during the construction (it wil be perfectly durable after it's broken in), and is therefore liable to cost you if you make mistakes that could have been avoided. Most importantly, go slowly and carefully.


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## WOWcham

Sorry kegan the artwork will probably be pretty fruity lol.
I have a chunk of mahogany that I want to make a handle out of and was wondering what I should use for dimensions


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## kegan

Let's get to work. The design I show here is one of my favorites, and one of the easiest to make. It has excellent speed, durability, and stability (which means accuracy). Do not stray from the design in the initial building, as later you can tweak it for comfortability.

Start by determining the dimensions. Width will be 1 1/4" for bows up to 40#. For most of us we want a hunting bow- nice and strong- so jsut leave it 1 1/2" wide. This means a stronger bow... and no extra work reducing width! 

Length is detmermined as such: double your draw length and add 16". So, for a 28" draw, a 72" bow would be required. I would suggest starting two inches longer than that though, as you might need to shorten it later. I started at 72" for a 27" draw and wound up taking it off due to some bad gouges.

The tips should be 3/8" wide. Leave the middle 36" a full 1 1/2" wide. From there taper to 3/8" wide tips. For a 72" bow, the last 18" on each tip would be tapered. 

The thickness varies a great deal. It's hard to give a definitive dimneisons. Hence, starting out a little longer lets you shorten later to strengthen the bow. To start off though, make it 3/4" in the center 4", tapering striaght to 5/16" at the tips. 

I start by marking off the the dimensions. I cut the thickness first, use a hatcht to get within 1/8" of the lines. Next, I work the width of the tips down the same way. AVOID GOUGING HERE! Go slow, and don't bite into the grain. Make sure your hatchet is good and sharp.

Use a hatchet, plane, or large raps to work down to the lines. Take the wood at an angle, with the bevel down (as shown). Avoid gouging. Follow up with the rasp, and then a scraper.


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## kegan

Use the scraper to clean it up and make the taper straight and smooth. 

Here is the bow thus far. Note how the bow is straigh in width in the middle. And notice that the handle is not several inches thicker. Don't try dips or fades- we will make the handle thicker with leather later for comfort and better shooting. This whole working should take about an hour or so with hand tools. No problem.

Before we start bending, round the edges on the back to avoid splintering.

Once you round the edge, getnly floor tiller the bow to watch for weak spots and to make sure the limbs are balanced. This also helps exercise the limbs. Don't bend them too much, just a few inches.


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## kegan

Note how the limbs are slightly offset. We will use this to our advantage. If your board has this, put the arrow on the concave side (which will determine the bottom and top limbs. Keep that in mind during tillering, as the bottom limb may be slightly stiffer than the top, as it undergoes more stress in stringing.

Now to nocks. Measure half an inch from the tips. On the left side (looking from the back), cut in less than half way and pop the piece off with knife. Clean it up and swap the bow end ofr end. Cut the nocks the same way ON THE SAME SIDE. This is so that, no matter how the limbs twist, the string wil always align itself across the bow. These are my favorite nocks as they are easy to make, help with crooked wood, and are easy to string.

Now we begin tillering. Place the bow in the vice, back down, and put the long string on it. Begin bending it slightly, a few inches. Put a second string on the nocks to simulate a brace height. If there are weak spots, mark them and remove wood from the stiff spots. Continue until you reach brace height. if you have trouble seeing the difference in the limbs, mark 10" and 20" from the handle and measure the distance between the bow's belly and the string. The numbers should be within 1/8" on each side. Trust me, it helps on boards.

Keep going... slowly.


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## kegan

Continue until you reach what would be brace height (about 5 1/2"-6"), removing wood from the stiff spots and avoiding further weakenning the already weak spots. Continue until the bow bends in a nice, perfect arc. Don't stress the wood farther if the limbs are unbalanced. 

Once you get it to brace height- STOP. Leave it strung up in the vice overnight. This is the break in period. It will stretch and compress the wood, getting it ready for the rigors of being a hunting bow. DON'T leave it to break in if the limbs are unbalanced. If you are rushed, 6 hours should be enough, 3 hours if the grain is PERFECTLY straight. Wooden bows will lose several pounds during breaking in, and this will help later when gauging weight. 

So, until tomarrow.


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## buckshot95

Hey kegan! I was just breaking in a bow and is 1/2 of string follow is that good. Thanks!:wink:


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## kegan

Buckshot- 1/2" of string follow is sublime! If you get 2" or less of string follow, you're golden!

I can't get to the bow tonight, but I'll continue the build along tomarrow.


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## buckshot95

I hope i will get 2". My first bow it started about 1/2" and ended up to be 1 3/4. :wink:


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## bowman1964

sorry that it took so long but i have not had time with baseball, but here it is and i still don't have a grip for it and im on my dad's name but it shoots good!:darkbeer:


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## kegan

Looks good! Can we get a ful draw picture to see the tiller (and the real beauty of the bow)?

Sorry, but I won't be able to work on the build along until tomarrow. I'm working on my mom's gift (the log is being a pain). Sorry.


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## WOWcham

I see a bamboo-backed locust bow with mahogany handle and tip overlays in my future, but I have heard that locust can be hard to properly season have any tips? I was going to rub white glue on the back and ends but I have read that leaving the bark on can help.


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## kegan

WOWcham- Osage, mulberry, and locust should be seasoned in the following manner: Cut the tree or branch down and then to length (+6"). Split it and coat the ends with glue, paint, shellac, or what not. Narrow the stave to 2" wide, and 1 1/2" thick through out (or thicker if the sapwood is especially thick). Don't remove the bark. Let it sit thus for two or three months in a warm, dry, well ventilated area. After two or three months, remove the bark and the sapwood and let it sit for another two or three months. After then is canbe worked.

In this time you should be able to get a few white wood bows made. I would recomend so. Bamboo can overpower a weak belly, and locust is know to fret. Perfect tillering is a requisite for this combination. You can also experiment with overlays, wooden backing glue-ups, styles, and what not on these bows so that when it comes to the main one, you already know what you're doing and what you want. 

Sorry it's taking so long for the build along. I need to contact the person I'm sending the bow and I'm absolutely swamped this month.


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## buckshot95

Kegan- I know 8-12% moisture is what is the best. what do you prefer your bows to be. Buckshot95


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## kegan

For hickory, under 9% is best. Oak can be about 10% and still shoot fine. I've made several bows from 10-12% that were pretty limp shooters (elm, hickory, oak, sassafras). Usually, for bows of this design (long, narrow D bows) drier is better (as long as it isn't under 6%). Trying to use wet wood is pretty much a waste of good wood. Better to just wait and let it dry and go cut some more for later. Someting board-dryness would be perfect.


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## WOWcham

Here are some pictures of the completed bow before stain.
hope these works.


























well its just literally broke guess its going on the wall not in the woods.


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## buckshot95

That looks great. I am pretty sure kegan will say the same about that looks very nice tiller awesome.


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## kegan

Looks good. If I had to guess why it broke, i would say it was bending too much near the grip. Get the whole thing bending evenly like this, or narrow the tips so they don't weigh alot.


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## kegan

Sorry it's taken me so long- been really busy!

Okay, last time I posted we had left the bow overnight to break in. The bow will now be tillered to full draw. We do as we did before- gently bend it a few inches and remove wood from the stiff spots (or limb). We want a smooth, graceful, even balance in the limbs. Continue until you reach full draw.

Check the weight as you go. Gently pulling it by hand until it feels like the weight you want is a good way to check, and using a spring bow scale is easier. If you are wanting as strong a bow as you can get, then continue, slowly, to full draw and check the weight there. After breaking in and tillering to full draw, this bow came out slightly under weight- 50# at 27". This was due to slightly crooked grain. Take note, if you want a strong bow from a board, use only the straightest grain.

Once you reach full draw and weight leave it for ten minutes. Gently draw it full length, and check in front of a mirror if possible. Have someone else draw it for you, or have them check the bend as you draw it. Conitnue until the bow is confortable being drawn the length of an arrow. Take it outside and shoot it a few times. It is now a bow!


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## kegan

After a few shots you might note that this bow is rather uncomfotable to shoot. It kicks in the hand slightly and is hard to grip. Naturally, you'd want to narrow the handle, or carve it to make it more comfortable- _*DON'T*_!

Natural staves and larger boards may have that extra wood that you can carve away to do so, but not one a board bow like this. Narrowing the grip would weaken the wood- causing it to break. Carving small reliefs into it for your hand would do the same. You can, however, make the bow much more comfortable by gluing leather onto it. Thick top-grain is best. Use simple wood glue (Titebond II or III are best) and clamp it tight. Once dry, glue on leather for an arrow rest (if desired) and a strike plate. 

Once they are all on and dry, use a sharp utility knife to carve them to a comfortable shape. Sand it afterwards to "soften" the edges. It looks ragged, yes, but we will be adding a fishing line grip wrap to it later (like Pope and Young used on their bows).

Now to take some more hand shock out- and to boost performance. Using a scraper or small hand plane set to take off veyr thin shavings, narrow and round the tips and the last 10" or so- just short of causeing them to bend more. The finished tips should be about 3/8" or a trifle less. Smaller tips mean the bow has to use less energy to move them, meaning more energy for the arrow. Just like using a longer bow means mroe leverage to the arrow and therefore more speed and power, narrow tips mean less mass the energy is being used just to move the limbs. This allows you to shoot approperiate arrows decent distances (about 45 yards) without too much hassle. It also removes handshock, as less momentum from the limbs is left to jar the hand.

Once you're done smooth it all off with some 400+ grit sand paper and get her ready for the finish.

The bow is almost finished. Now we just need to wrap the grip and put a finish on her. The bow is a beautifully shooting 50# longbow that out-performs a similiar fibreglass design (i shot them side by side). Though finicky with arrow spine, the power is moe tahn enogh to make up for it. This bow shoots! It is nearly as fast as my brother's 60# version shooting the same arrows.


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## No.1 Hoyt

hey all. i havent been on in a while had a few new pages to read. Another gret buildalong kegan. I love them. so helpful

i remember a whhile ago you were making a sass&white oak bow. How are those?
and wowcharm that is an excellent first bow. i mean really great

i am starting on two 62" ntn osage bow backed with hickory. I will glue in about 3" of reflex in it.
it will be 1 1/2" wide tapering to 3/8 so its like a gentle pyramid. How does that sound?


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## kegan

Great to have you back David! And thanks.

The white oak I posted up as the "back up bow" and the sassafras went to the corner. Sassafras is a pain without a backing. I plan on making a laminate with a hickory backing though:wink:.

Sounds excellent! Will they be stiff-handle or D bows? Either way, they'll be screamers. I would watch for stack/finger pinch with a full 28" draw at such short lengths. They've always given me trouble unless I recurved them.


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## No.1 Hoyt

o i cant wait to see the sassafras bow someday i have looked for a straight peice of it in the scrubby little patch of timber by my house but its all crooked nasty stuff. 


these will have a 4 or 5" stiff handled bow. I will not cut a rest like i do on my others but do a golf tee rest or glue on leather.

i heard your handle should extend 1/2" beyond the fade at the widest point of the limb so if i cut it to 4" would i need a 5" handle on it" i didnt explain it that well but i dont really know how else i would


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## kegan

Mhmm. We cut a big ol' hickory tree today for just backing strips. When they dry I'm going to go to town with a bunch of laminates. Now I'm gonna cut the belly woods and get them drying too.

Try one as a D bow- they're fun to make.

Ahh, the thickness should be tapering half an inch beyond the width taper. Yes, it should. Prevents the chance of hinging.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats awesome i will have to cut one down for backings sometime

i have a big stack so i will try one as a d bow


well my oak bow decided it was time to go, it broke. it had a long, good life.

it was a fast, forgiving, hard hitting. my ideal bow. it just bent slightly too much at midlimb no hinge but more thatn the other area. 
but o well nothing i can do. now i have more excuses to make more i loved this bow though and it is really ashame it broke.


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## Dooby

kegan said:


> ...obsidian in our driveway...Sharp, and tough...the little flake...sliced right through the ball of my foot (the thickest part)for a good 1/2" or so- cleanly...


Obsidian (volcanic glass) is the BEST stuff for making cutting instruments. If you're in a pinch you can use chunks of this glass (like the kind from old plate glass windows...not modern ones....or really old thick bottles).

Once you figure out how to chip it properly...you can make micro think arrow heads that are super sharp. They are a bit brittle, but sharper than a razor.

I read something about a guy that made trad. tools from obsidian going in to have major surgery. The surgeon offered to buy all he could make...best scalpel he'd ever used. Sharper, thinner, tougher...and more sterile than steel blades.

Nice job on the bows, btw.


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## kegan

Dooby- You aren't kidding! I've got some chunks of obsidian that I traded a guy for- amazing stuff. I'm not much of a knapper, as I don't have the patience for delicate materials or knapping almost artistic points, but i use flakes whenever I need to cut something right. I've got five or six flakes by my bed in case I need 'em lol.


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## Fortancient

Copy of the Sudbury bow that I made a few years back.


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## buckshot95

Man that is a sweet looken pic. very nice bow!:wink:


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## kegan

buckshot95 said:


> Man that is a sweet looken pic. very nice bow!:wink:


Mhmm! Good tiller, and flawless finish! Looks like the original.

I got the birch dowels yesterday. I'll get pics of the arrows up when i get some broadheads done. They fly great too. Fast, accurate, and very tough. These are my new favorite shafting- gotta order some more!

I'll get the last few pictures of the build along up tomarrow.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Very nice bow! tiller is great

now now kegan dowels lead to aluminum and aluminum leads to carbon and pretty soon you will be shooting compound bows:wink: jk i have a dozen ramin wood shafts i just have to spine them but i dont have a spine tester so i need to build one.

my new favorite natural shafting are spicebush shoots. i love them and they smell good

im lookin forward to seein your arrows!


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## No.1 Hoyt

one other thing is looking at your bows i love those side nocks.


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## Fortancient

kegan said:


> Mhmm! Good tiller, and flawless finish! Looks like the original.
> 
> I got the birch dowels yesterday. I'll get pics of the arrows up when i get some broadheads done. They fly great too. Fast, accurate, and very tough. These are my new favorite shafting- gotta order some more!
> 
> I'll get the last few pictures of the build along up tomarrow.


Thanks guys appreciate it. I tillered and tillered that hickory stave. This picture is actually in a book called Ohio Archaeology. I had a small article in it discussing the bow within the Late Woodland period. 

I enjoy making sinew reinforced bows the best however, something about splittin all that sinew over a week or two on those long winter nights. I need to make more but daughter, coondogs, 3d Archery and work takes up all of my time now.


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## No.1 Hoyt

yes very nice bow. i love sinewed bows i need to get some sinew now

well after thosands of shots my bow let go earlyier this week may it rest in peace

here is a pic of my best shot with it and the break


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## No.1 Hoyt

hres a new spicebush arrow i built on a whim


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## WOWcham

I will be shure to play taps for it haveing just lost mine i know your feeling. 
I believe my bow broke because of a lack of backing, is it possible to use a working backing like bamboo on a red oak board or would it over power it?


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## Fortancient

No.1 Hoyt said:


> hres a new spicebush arrow i built on a whim


Good looking arrow. I absolutely hate fletching hate it bad.


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## No.1 Hoyt

WOWcham said:


> I will be shure to play taps for it haveing just lost mine i know your feeling.
> I believe my bow broke because of a lack of backing, is it possible to use a working backing like bamboo on a red oak board or would it over power it?




it is possible to use banboo on red oak i have seen it done but babmboo can very easily overpower red oak so make it thin and be careful

Fortancient thanks for the nice compliment


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## kegan

Haha, I guess I'll have to be careful then! But these birch dowels are just fantastic- cheap, easy, STURDY, fast, ACCURATE, and spined perfectly to me bows (about 80#). My new favorite! Nice arrow by the way- very primitive! Sorry about your bow man, that's a bummer.

WOWcham- backings aren't necessary. I've built several bows from flawed wood, and they held up fine. Just tiller slowly and carefull, and give it a full 24 hours to break it before even THINKING about tillering to full draw. Tillering is the key. Usually when a bow breaks after beign tillered to full draw, it's because there was a weak spot. So far, all my bows that were made from much-too-flawed staves broke while tillering. Never had one break after.

Fortancient- have you tried a long D bow? Of all the bows I've built, these are the easiet to tiller, strongest, and usually the fastest (provided the tips are narrow enough). As soon as I begin adding handles I get into trouble. Which means all the more for your craftmanship on the Sudbury! As for fletching, how do you do it? I've come to a method that makes it pretty easy. 

As for sinew bows- I've made a couple, and don't much care for them. The extra work that goes into the processing the sinew, and the troubles with waterproofing it, coupled with the fact that it only works well on short bows which are inferior to longer bows in the first place- makes it a burden in my style of hunting (stalking and mid-distance shots). I much prefer the old, slightly Americanized Longbow, the style also used by the Eastern Woodlands. Best bow there is in my opinion.


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## Fortancient

kegan said:


> Haha, I guess I'll have to be careful then! But these birch dowels are just fantastic- cheap, easy, STURDY, fast, ACCURATE, and spined perfectly to me bows (about 80#). My new favorite! Nice arrow by the way- very primitive! Sorry about your bow man, that's a bummer.
> 
> WOWcham- backings aren't necessary. I've built several bows from flawed wood, and they held up fine. Just tiller slowly and carefull, and give it a full 24 hours to break it before even THINKING about tillering to full draw. Tillering is the key. Usually when a bow breaks after beign tillered to full draw, it's because there was a weak spot. So far, all my bows that were made from much-too-flawed staves broke while tillering. Never had one break after.
> 
> Fortancient- have you tried a long D bow? Of all the bows I've built, these are the easiet to tiller, strongest, and usually the fastest (provided the tips are narrow enough). As soon as I begin adding handles I get into trouble. Which means all the more for your craftmanship on the Sudbury! As for fletching, how do you do it? I've come to a method that makes it pretty easy.
> 
> As for sinew bows- I've made a couple, and don't much care for them. The extra work that goes into the processing the sinew, and the troubles with waterproofing it, coupled with the fact that it only works well on short bows which are inferior to longer bows in the first place- makes it a burden in my style of hunting (stalking and mid-distance shots). I much prefer the old, slightly Americanized Longbow, the style also used by the Eastern Woodlands. Best bow there is in my opinion.


I agree they are a bigger pain and I have never lived on the plains but when I was a little kid I had two books. One had a photo of the Karl Bodmer painting of the Mandan dog dancer with the famous horn bow and I wanted to be that guy with the horn bow. So the reflex design has been engrained in my head for the last 38 years. Now I have acquired some horn to make one and my old boss had the horn bow that Bert Grayson owned that is in the Native American Bows book by T.M. Hamilton. I am waiting for my daughter to go off to university before I tackle this one as I need to have 100 percent concentration for about 3 months. 

D bows are cool and I like them a lot. Have sold almost all that I have made before I was married and child came along. I seem to remember a Seneca D bow with a scalloped edge and I always wanted to replicate that one but have never gotten around to it. I make about 1 a year nowadays and don't keep them. I mentally decided to sell what I could years ago and knew that I would not keep everything.....same with knapped points, ground and pecked axes and adz', and bone tools. Replication helped me understand my job better and now its like I have no time for it....sad.

I have fletched many different ways; reverse and fold, with sinew or thistle, with art. sinew, thread, etc. etc. I ran across that double sided tape and that did wonders but its cheatin. However if I am flingin arrows for myself I dont care. I just have never cared for fletching....can't be good at or like everything. I would just rather sit and slpit and twist sinew into a string or or tiller.


Had a copy of the Holmgard Bow and it was a doozy at 90 lbs. Have a horse bow that pulls about 85; replica of a Sioux bow....unmanageable for sure.

Exciting to see others into the old school stuff for sure!


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## kegan

That makes sense. I'm a bit of a Hill fan, so my opinion is obviously skewed. Though I do want to make a short West Coast style bow sometime. Just to see if I can, and to test how well sassafras works with sinew. Don't have the guts for a hornbow though- hope I get to hear about it when you're done!

Being both picky, and cheap, I keep searching for that "perfect bow". But after three hinges where I messed up at the fades, I took to D bows. Simpler just to glue on some lather for a handle than mess up a perfectly good stave. Form the looks of your work, seems like you're doing alot of people favors selling them such nice pieces!

I definately cheat. Use nylon thread and Fletch-Tite glue. Put glue on the back tab, tie them all down. Pull the fronts straight, glue them, and wrap with thread. Apply a bead of glue along the inside of thefeather and let dry. Cover thread with pitch afterwards. Except for the smell of the glue, it's a pretty pleaseant process. But I do see whatyou mean- it is a tiring task.

Wow, sound like some awesome bows! Always had trouble shooting full strength short bows. No wonder most Natives lke 45-50#! Longer bows make heavier weights easier though. At 70", my 80# bow is rather easy to draw. My previous bow, 64", 75# felt like you were trying to lift a truck!

Ever been to primitivearcher.com?


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## Fortancient

I have not been there but will go.


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## No.1 Hoyt

im working on a hick backed osage and maple backed oak. 

When cutting belly taper on the osage one limb came out EXTREMELY weak

i will be glue in 3 1/2" of reflex and i can pike off 2" from each side and i am only going for 50-60 i should be ok


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## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan i was on paleoplanet and saw you created an account there. Its a good website. I dont spend very much time on there though.


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## kegan

Yup! Haven't gotten to be on there for a while, I set it up a while back. Got good stuff there. 

Sounds good! But laminations add considerable weight to a bow. You can always just pike the weaker limb, provided they are the same length now.

Right now I'm working on a red oak selfbow from a stave, hickory backed red oak board, and the bamboo backed crabapple.

I'm working primarily on the crabapple bow now- it's dry and I need a new bow. I gotta get me some Osage some time. Thinking about getting something to swap for a stave on primitivearcher. Like I said, I need a new bow!

Can't wait to see your bows man!


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats sweet i cant wait to see those bows especially the crabapple. That will be so cool! I cant wiat to see them!!


I cut a nice piece of spicebush to use as a bow. This is mainly an experimental bow but i would like to get a good shooter


they are not staves but if you ever want an osage board i could probably help. THey are nice and straight grained so i want to make an unbacked bow soon. I would just have to maybe make it a few inches longer.


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## buckshot95

That is sweet can't wait to see the crabapple. I have a hickory bow just about done tillering and then i got 2 other bows to build. I got a ash and a red oak going to tiller pretty quick.:wink:


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## kegan

Thanks guys, I'm hoping the BBC turns out as nice as I hope. It's a real tough wood, heavy and hard. Like a lighter Osage, without the elasticity- hence the Bamboo. I'm still only going half speed, getting over a cold. Bamboo's ready though, and the crabapple's dry, so now waiting for drying (cept glue)! I'm also going to start on a hickory backed red oak board sometime. But I want to do the crabapple first.

Can't wait to see those buys guys! Don't forget lots of pictures:wink:.

David, I might have to take you up on that offer sometime! Anyhting you want? I can get you staves (hickory, elm, red and white oak), maybe some arrow wood (sourwood), and/or hand drill materials. Interested?


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## No.1 Hoyt

im looking foward to seeing your bows. they should be really cool

i might trade for an elm stave sometime


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## kegan

I'llhave to keep an eye open for a good tree then.

I got the bow glued up and roughed out today. It shoud be dry enough to start tillering tomarrow, so it should, conceivably, be done next week some time.

I've got to order a bunch of arrow building stuff soon though. These dowels are tops so I'll have to get a bunch, and a bunch of feathers. It's nice having a full quiver, I don;t want to lose that feeling.


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats great. I would really like to try elm.

i cant wait to see those bows. a BBC should be really cool and bamboo is a beautiful backing

i cant wait to see those arrows. and i know what you mean about a full quiver. its a nice feeling and right now i only have 2 arrows i need to work on the other 20 shafts i have now


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## kegan

I actually have an elm stave stashed away. I'll set it out to dry. Whenever you want it, send me a PM on primitive archer. I need a new selfbow anyhow, and an Osage board bow would be perfect:wink:.

It is. I keep taking it off the rack and looking at the backing. Can't wait to get it all tillered up and shooting. Patience though. This crab apple is a pain to work though. Wants to gouge and tear out at every turn. I think I'll be doing most of my final shapping and tillering with sandpaper.

Mhmm. I've got nine blunts, one broadhead, and six or so more shafts that I need to get fletched up. I would have had ten blunts but I Robin Hooded another blunt this afternoon. I'm getting better and it's costing me. I'll get pictures up tomarrow of the arrows. Can't wait to see your arrows man!


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## buckshot95

That is pretty sweet when you can hood with a selfbow. I finished a hickory bow the other day. I is a shorty it is 64" 40# @ 28". It shoot pretty good.:biggrin1:


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## kegan

Yup. The old "practice makes perfect" adage seems to really apply to archery. Which makes shooting even more fun. Gotta work on those moving targets though.

Sounds like nice bow- pictures man, pictures! We want to see that bad boy.

The crab apple bow is coming together. I started tillering but, being as strong as it is now, I needed to add overlays of red bulleta to prevent damaging the bamboo at the tips. So I have to wait until tomarow to finish tillering.

Here are some pictures of my birch dowel arrows. I only have one broadhead, and no more cutting discs to make more yet. Have to get some. They weigh 600 grains and are very fast and accurate. You can see that I use a sharpie to color code the nock to show the cock feather, for faster shooting. Helps alot. Now I'm greedy though, I want to get more materials and make a bunch up.


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## kegan

Well, the crab apple and bamboo is going to the corner for a while. It came out at 65# with 3" of set. The bamboo overpowered the crab apple, messing it all up. I'll heat treat the belly later, but I'm taking break for now. Selfbows are so much mroe reliable creatures. I've got an oak and one or two new hickories drying now. I'm going back to try to get some thin hickory backing strips to make some red oak board backed with hickory bows, but we'll jsut have to wait and see.

I've got to get to work on arrows anyhow.


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## buckshot95

man that sucks that the crabapple is messed up. hope you can fix it.:wink:


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## kegan

Nothing beats a selfbow! BBC took me about six days of work, and due to my not tempering the board before hand it needs a bunch more work. Selfbows don't do that! It also had a heavy feel- seems like I would have to be doing some work after tillering to make sure it had the best cast in it.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Thats too bad about that BBC at least it didnt chrysal.

Nice arrow too i like those trade points.


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## kegan

Yeah. Waste of good bamboo. That crabapple was such a pain to work too. Oh well. I've got other bows to build anyway. 

Thanks. I like these points. Alot of work to make/resharpen, but they are almost impossible to misalign, easy to attach, fly well, and penetrate well.

The red oak is drying out pretty fast. I should be able to get it up sometime soon. It's holding on to the last few % of MC, but It'll have to give in and drop to an acceptible level sooner or later:wink:!

And now that's schools out, I can get alot more done. Which means more photos!


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## iamnoluck

2nd bow almost finished.Heres what I got. 64 " red oak board bow. 50Lbs @27" 5 inch brace. shoots well. What is the correct brace height as I still get a little wrist slap. Built this for my son is why I got the poundage down. Keegan and all, thanks for all your posts, have been invaluable. Now that I am down to sanding and finishing lets have some keep it simple tips on this part.will try to do some pics. also how do you know what string length to use or do you just get it to correct brace height? what is string follow. Thanks


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## kegan

5"-5 1/2" is perfect brace. You'll probabaly still get wrist slap- htat's why you jsut wear an arm gaurd or bracer. Between having to wear a bracer and overstressign a bow, the bracer is the easy part. As for finsihng, just saind it, put a few coats of polyurethane on it, and wrap the handle with some string or cord to make it mre comfortable. String length is determined by brace height, as some bows get different braces from different length strings- even if the bows are the same length. String follow is how much the tips stay bent, like the bow is braced, after it is unstrung. 

Glad we can help.


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## kegan

Here's my new back quiver. Made from the doe I shot last year, 24" deep, holds about 20 arrows, and really quick on the draw. I like it.


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## buckshot95

That is a sweet lookin quiver. nothing like using the deer you shoot for something like this. sweet great job!!:wink:


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## kegan

Thanks!

Bow update: Due to the humididty, I haven't been able to get the staves as dry as I want, so I'm using my old stave dryer until I make a new one. I also roughed out another Hill style hickory bow to dry, and threw the rest into the back of our old unused truck to slow dry for several months to a year. I'm gathering.

If all goes well the red oak longbow should be done by next weekend, lest something goes wrong. Just have to figure out some nice ways to finish it up all pretty like:wink:. And as soon as the hickory strip dires I'll start on the hickory backed red oak board bow.

Oh, and I started a spear/javellin:devil:.


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## kegan

Here's a short elm flatbow with an "Ishi" handle for some of my buddy's younger brothers.It's 58" long, 1 5/8" wide, and 45# at 25"- it's a real nice little bow. A fair hunting weapon.

I'm also working on the red oak laminate. I'll be trying to make it into a takedown. So it should take a little longer than a week:wink:. But just a little.


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## buckshot95

That is really sweet kegan. Do have have a heat box for the red oak bow or not. Get job!:wink:


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## gobblercrazy

Wow...I don't think I'd ever be able to make my own longbow. I shoot a compound be maybe someday I might try the ol' longbow. Seems like a good challenge. Oh ya, kegan, how did you learn to make all these?!?!


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## kegan

Buckshot- Thanks! I have a stave dryer. For my laminates I just use Titebond II- a terrific glue. No heat needed.

Gobberlcrazy- it's really pretty simple. You take a piece of seasoned wood, rough it out to dimensions and get a good thickness taper, and then tiller it (balance the limbs so that they bend evenly). If you did those properly, and designed it right, it's not that hard at all. It's really a whole lot of fun. I get as much joy outta making bows as I do shooting and hutning with them. It's like a deadly art of sorts. As for the challenge, it is a bit. I learned from reading and perosnal experience. _The Bent Stick_, _The Traditional Bowyer's Bibles_, and primitivearcher.com (an open forum accompanying _Primitive Archer_ magazine).

Tomarrow the hickory backing strip should be dry, so I'll have my father help me run it through the jointer and I'll glue it all up. Friday I'll see if I can get time to shape and tiller it. So by Saturday or Sunday I'll start on breaking it in and finishing it up. So, theoretically, by Monday/Tuesday I'll be able to start turning it into a takedown. Of course, I should remember to take it slow and not rush things. It should be all finished, if it works out, by next weekend. 

I also started on an elm flatbow, like the bow above- only larger. So I now have a red oak longbow, a hickory/red oak takedown, two hickory American longbows, an elm flatbow, gathering a bunch of staves for drying, and a red oak board for a bow. And now I've got the notion to start building an elephant bow and arrows in my head!

I'm gonna see if I can sell a few bows and make some money for the summer. I want to try some store bought arrowheads (mine aren't very tough as they are riveted straight to the birch shaft- if it were hickory it would be a different story, but not birch) and I don't have any money. I'll see how that goes.


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## gobblercrazy

Awesome, i think it would still take me a little while to learn how, but maybe someday haha and it sounds like making all these bows is like pocket change...another +, where when you have a compound, if you want a different DW, DL and what not, your either going to have to buy different mods, or maybe just a whole new bow and it really starts to add up.


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## kegan

gobblercrazy said:


> Awesome, i think it would still take me a little while to learn how, but maybe someday haha and it sounds like making all these bows is like pocket change...another +, where when you have a compound, if you want a different DW, DL and what not, your either going to have to buy different mods, or maybe just a whole new bow and it really starts to add up.


The Bent Stick teaches everything you need to know, the rest you can get by asking questions. I started making good bows once I finished it. 

And yes, it is cheap. The most expensive part on most of my bows is the dacron string (about $2). The only expensive part is arrows. They're about $4 a piece, $9 for broadheads (store bought). 

Bad news. The elm turned out much too warped to the side to use for a longbow, so I'll save it for a shorty later. Also, the hickory popped at a knot when we ran it through the jointer, so I'll have to wait until I can cut another one. Oh well.


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## gobblercrazy

That stinks...well let us know how your next bow goes!:tongue:


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## kegan

The red oak selfbow is coming along nicely, and I'm drying a hickory bow. The red oak should be a nice selfbow, but i'm looking into ways to make it a really looker.

I also want to make a good hot box to quick dry wood and start selling some selfbows. Need a little money. I'm thinking about $100 a piece for some really nice ones. I'll need a moisture meter, and maybe some boards. But that's it.

I also got a butt load of arrow materials- so I'm setting about working a bunch up. In the coming week or two I should be getting some pictures up of all my projects as they get done.


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## gobblercrazy

sounds good!


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats a SWEET quiver. i love it!

Would you ever cut an elm to use as backings? i heard elm work great. Straight elm is a little harder to come by it seems like


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## kegan

Thanks, I really like it. I'm going through and renovating all my gear- new hunting bow, arrows, and quiver.

No, I don't htink I would. Hickory is tougher, and we have alot more of them here. It is also easier to split, and makes, in my opinion, a slightly better bow backing than elm- if for no other reason than it is tougher.

Correction- i need a humidity meter. I have a moisture meter.

I also started on fixing up that bamboo backed crabapple bow. I piked it and toasted the belly, retillered, and slightly narrowed the handle (I'm starting to like slightly narrowed handles, only a tad thicker, with a smooth transition to the limbs). I will do nock overlays, and perhaps a handle lamination tomarrow. The red oak came out underweight so I toasted the belly and relfexed it to boost weight. If it comes out underiwght I will pretty it up and get ready for it to be sold. 

Also, I have some pictures of how I make dowel rod arrows. Would anyone be interested in an arrow build along?


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## gobblercrazy

Sure, love to learn something new as long as its archery and not school:wink:


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## kegan

Excellent. I'll get it up as soon as I can.

I've recently changed my design to accomodate wider limbs, for more strength (actual #'s, not just durability) so I'll be getting more trees as soon as my leg heals up (scraped it pretty bad, won't bend now). Until then I'll be working on the BBC and the hickory bows. The red oak stave turned out light, but I started a red oak board bow for my first sale. I toasted the belly, piked it, and now the red bulleta tip overlays are drying. I'll do those tomarrow and tiller her out. Hopefully she'll have gained enough weight, despite being so narrow, to be a full 80#.

I'm also trying to deal with finicky arrows. They're lighter than I'm used to and are absolutely abusing me (require perfect form for any consistency).


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## iamnoluck

*red oak*

finished my first one. Got it sanded and finished and polyurethened??.
my question is when I first got through it was pulling 50# @27" 6.5 brace. Now about 1 to 2 weeks we took it and let the bowshop check it. 45#@27".120 fps. How much weight is normal loss in the breakin period or could this just be difference in scales. 64" nock to nock. Shoots really well.


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## therazor302

I have a question. When you make a bow do you just make it and hope the draw weight comes out like you want? I saw a list of bows you were giving away and they were all random Draw Weights so I'm kind of confused. Given I haven't read all 21 pages but I have read 4-5 random ones =P.


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## kegan

iamnoluck- 5# is about the right amount. That's why I always try to build bows heavier. Of course, the stronger the bow, the more it might lose. Just tiller slowly, leave it braced overnight (this will break it in now, instead of later). 120 fps is really poor. A 45# selfbow shooting 450 grain arrows should shoot at LEAST 150 fps. How much string follow does it have?

therazor- No, I start out with alot of wood on the limbs, nice and thick. Having built so many bows, I have an idea of how thick to start. I just remove wood if it's too heavy (which, when making bows for myself, never happens), or pike it or heat treat it to strengthen it. I usually have an idea of what weight I'm going after.

The bamboo backed crab apple is nearing completion. I've got her shooting! Now to add a handle, sand it up, and put a finish on it. It's 70# at 27". It came out a little light, but shoots really well- really well. Definately a keeper. Oh, and I also started a bow to sell. A real beaut. I'll get pictures of that too.


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## therazor302

Ahh the thickness of the wood alright that makes sense.

How much are you looking to sell the bows?


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## iamnoluck

3" string follow. Is there a good range for this.


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## kegan

iamnoluck- if you make the bow at least 1 3/4" wide, bending as much of the length as you can, double your draw plus 16", and with as narrow tips as you can get, it should shoot, with a 10 gpp arrow, about 160 fps. Heavier bows lose more when the bow is in excess of 70#, so 5# will be fine for most. It's a "play it by ear" sorta game. Just take extra precautions and you'll be fine. That is quite a bit of string follow, hence the poor cast. But as long as you're happy with it that's all that matters. Having something to shoot now while you're working on another helps trememndously.

therazor- the bow pictured below will be about $150 finished up, drawing about 50# or so at 28".

And here are some pictures of the finished BBC. 70" long, 70# at 27". I made it to narrow, so I couldn't get a full 80# out of it, but it is a brilliant shooter. Definately going to be used for hunting next year. And accurate too. I already got another Robin Hood with it, and it pegs our arial targets with ease. I'm very pleased.


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## kegan

Oh, and about the first bow (the bow to be sold). It started coming out very underweight (30#) so I piked two inches from each tip and recurved it, both for power and speed, and for looks (most people like pretty bows, and recurves are pretty). The grip is very detailed- a locator grip with a low shelf, very near center-shot for speed and ease in arrow match ups. This will be a very nice bow when it's done. I think I'll back it with some sort of cloth though, for security. Hopefully some one will want to buy it, I'm putting all my best into it.


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## SDC

*Newbie*

Kegan,
I have been following this thread for a while and am getting very inspired, in short nice bows .
I am currently working on a youth longbow out of laminated red oak, it is going well and I should be finishing it soon.
I live in Kansas and we have hedge or Osage Orange in abundance, My hope is to make a longbow or D-bow out of Osage for myself.
Do you have any tips to start a newbie out, or books to get to start getting educated? Any info would be very useful - Thanks SDC


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## kegan

SDC- Thank you! Osage is one of, if not _the_ best bow wood we have in North America. There are lots of books out there on bow building, _The Bent Stick_ by Paul Comstock, _Hunting the Osage Bow _by Dean Torges, _The Bowyer's Bible Volumes 1-4_ by Jim Hamm et al., and of course, there's _Primtive Archer Magazine_ and primitivearcher.com. Osage can make any style bow you want, from a Longbow to a short flatbow. 

If I could give any advice, it's go find some really straight, larger diamter (6" or so) Osage trees and some cheap wood glue. Cut a nice straight tree, split it into quarters (make sure they're at least 6' long) and coat the ends with glue to prevent checking/splitting (you don't have to remove the bark). Set them aside to dry. You may not know what to do with them now, but you'll want lots of good dry wood later on. 

While these dry nicely, you'll be able to read and ask as many questions as you need, so when you're ready to tackle your own Osage selfbow, you'll know enough to get started and have the wood to work.


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## SDC

*I*

appreciate the advice, and was eyeballing a few trees last night while setting up trailcams. I will do some studying and ask some questions when needed.

Keep up the good work :thumbs_up


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## kegan

Thanks!

I'll be fixing my heat box to speed up drying, so I can get started on a take down, as well as arrows/broadheads. 

I'll also try my hand at making another atlatl. Wish me luck.


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## master hunter

yo kegan. how hard is it to make broud heads.


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## kegan

master hunter said:


> yo kegan. how hard is it to make broud heads.


It's not, if you have the mateirals. The hardest part is finding good blade stock.

Of course, making one to fit onto a carbon or aluminum arrow will be about 100 times more difficult, especially if you've never made a broadhead before.

For a tie-on, just cut out a 1"x2 3/4" triangle from an old industrial bandsaw blade. Use a dremel to core it, then snap it off with duck bills and a strong vice. Clean it up with a grinder.

3/8" from the back end, cut two slots in about 1/4"-3/8" deep (so you can tie it on). The use the grinder to sharpen the edge, and fine tune the blade with a file.


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## kegan

My BBC gave out on me. First time I've had a bow blow on me at full draw. 

So I won't be able to shoot until I get some wood dry (several weeks).


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## No.1 Hoyt

I looked up sexy in the dictionary and it said the your bbc:wink: 
too bad it gave out on you i kow how you feel i had one do that to me.
I LOVE recurved bows i thought about making that future elm bow a recurve

150 is underpriced btw


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## kegan

I'll just have to fix it up then, glue it all back together.

You might not love recurves after you make a few. Except on short bows, which need the help, recurves are jsut a pain. Good looking though.

I have to get something to back this thing. I don't want it breaking if I'm selling it.


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## kegan

Here's a bow I made recently for my buddy. It's 68" long red oak board bow, 45# at 26.5", about 2" of set and 5" brace height. He likes the shelf and fancier grip, and I already had it all glued up (this was going to be the hickory backed take-down, but never would have worked- too narrow). 

For those of you who like board bows with deep handles, I would HIGHLY suggest wide limbs, something like a full 2" wide (that means you'd have to cut a 1x4 or broader).


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## No.1 Hoyt

Very nice bow! its great you do this for people.

I love wide bows with deep handles. So far my favorite style but i am trying narrow limbs with my osage, but there is still something about wide white wod bows i just love.



I was going to make a maple backed red oak but i am hurting for a bow and that red oak is tempting me and i havent had the best service from who i am ordering it from. So how would a 66" ntn 2" tapering to 1/2" pyramid style bow with a deep handle section(9") work?

I would rather do another design but i really need a bow.

Your osage will be cut tommorrow. I convinced my dad to do it now


I recieved a drawknife so i cant wait to make that bow from your elm stave eventually. It will definately be a great learning experience


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## kegan

Thanks. All practice for me. Soon they'll be good enough to sell!

They are the best design! Osage is simply denser and doesn't need it so wide. 

68", 2 1/2" wide to 1/2" tips (or 3/8" for a real sweet shooter:wink, 7" handle section (4" handle, 1.5" long fades on each side). This will yeild a more durable bow. This design is one of the easiet to tiller )very little, if any, thickness taper), VERY fast, and quite the looker.

Thanks! I just got more shipping paper to send your stave out.

And it'll be a great bow!


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## No.1 Hoyt

thanks kegan. i am so excited hopefully that elm bow can be my hunting partner.
that sounds like a good design but the bow is already cut out. It was intened to be a laminate but i NEED a bow. I could change the handle dimensions though right now its 4" handle section with 2" fades


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## kegan

Ahh. In that case, just make it lighter. Like 50# or so.

It's a real nice elm stave. After drying, the back has taken on a nice dark color. Very attractive!


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## No.1 Hoyt

i started it. I like the look of a pyramid and i put 2" long fades on it and i really like it. I pulled a big piece of wood off it with my drawkinfe but it still should be fine.


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## kegan

*Going into business?*

The two main things stopping me from making bows for business were talent (I did't feel my bows were even close to good enough before), and the actual business part. I love to make them, but owuld hate having to go through the trouble of running the business.

Well, my buddy Cameron (pictured above) wants to start a business, and _wants_ to be in charge of the business! So, in the coming months, we'll slowly be getting started. Mainly custom bows, but of course we'll see to having a few basic "models" of our own on hand. I'll be able to do D bows, flatbows, and recurves- along with custom designs (Indian bows, etc.) in selfbow style, at least until we get enough sinew and what not. 

So, 1) can anyone help come up with a name? 2) besides bows, arrows, and other shooting gear, would there be anyhting else we should try to sell (that we can make)? 3) in your opinion, as long as the bow shoots, and looks nice, does it really matter what would it's made of? Locally, we only have hickory, elm, black locust, and oak in enough quantity for producing alot of good bows. Would it matter to you (the woods would be stained for hutning, not bone white- but again, it's up to the customer) if we didn't have yew or OSage (yet- Osage could be a possibility in the future)?


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## No.1 Hoyt

lol cameron wants to be in charge. Your the master.

And yes you have plenty of skill i would buy one if i didnt make my own.


I have had some people want me to make them bows and i might do it someday but i dont want my hobby to become work.


you could also sell raw materials, and to some people the material may matter to to most i odnt think it would.


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## kegan

He deals with the people, I deal with the bows:wink:!

Thank you. That means alot David.

Well, I get alot of joy out of making bows. Lately it's been more fun to make them for others, as I can make them differently than I would make for myself. I'm my worst customer.

Raw materials, good point. That completely slipped my mind!


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## No.1 Hoyt

oh now i get it. He does the the PR and you make the bows. Sounds good


Remember last year before i made my own i pm'd you about buying one. If they were bad i wouldnt of even pm'd you. I think you could definately sell.


BOw making is the best. I get alot of joy too and i love seeing people faces when you give them one


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## kegan

Yup. Menas I can put more work into getting a whole lot of work done, without having to worry about the other stuff. It's perfect! Just have to get a business license, and see about paying the 11% federal tax on bows and arrows.

No, but you make an excellent point. Thanks. But now my bows have gotten better, much better. Beautiful and fast and even more acurate. I can also do alot more, and know what I'm doing. 

It's truly a theraputic process. recently I've taken to use power tools to working the wood down to the rough bows, it takes a whole lot of work out, leaving more to the fine tuning and special touches. Much better than before.

So far, we already have a "customer". Cameron's neighbor wants an Osage bow (I think he'll be cutting some somewhere) to hang on his wall. I just have to build a good stave dryer, and cut lots of good wood (hickory, maybe elm, and I have to see about getting some good black locust).


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## therazor302

kegan said:


> The two main things stopping me from making bows for business were talent (I did't feel my bows were even close to good enough before), and the actual business part. I love to make them, but owuld hate having to go through the trouble of running the business.
> 
> Well, my buddy Cameron (pictured above) wants to start a business, and _wants_ to be in charge of the business! So, in the coming months, we'll slowly be getting started. Mainly custom bows, but of course we'll see to having a few basic "models" of our own on hand. I'll be able to do D bows, flatbows, and recurves- along with custom designs (Indian bows, etc.) in selfbow style, at least until we get enough sinew and what not.
> 
> So, 1) can anyone help come up with a name? 2) besides bows, arrows, and other shooting gear, would there be anyhting else we should try to sell (that we can make)? 3) in your opinion, as long as the bow shoots, and looks nice, does it really matter what would it's made of? Locally, we only have hickory, elm, black locust, and oak in enough quantity for producing alot of good bows. Would it matter to you (the woods would be stained for hutning, not bone white- but again, it's up to the customer) if we didn't have yew or OSage (yet- Osage could be a possibility in the future)?


If your making a business I would expect great bows.A name could be Kegan and Cameron's Traditional bows. Simple but to the point and your name is first to assert your authority in the group.

Other things you might consider making are tabs, arm guards, quiver, and a bow stringer. Most people don't use just traditional bows and arrows and use the other stuff modern.

I don't know what the difference between woods is but if you had a site where you could choose the woods you have that would be great.

If you where guesstimating how much would a 25# long bow would cost. Would be nice to shoot for fun once in a while.


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## kegan

Haha. I don't care about authority. I'm head bowyer, and my initials go on each bow I make. Good name though. Cam'n'Keg's Wooden Bows. Maybe...

We were definately thinking accesories. We just have to get leatehr from the local leather shop, pick up some leather to make the stuff. As for quivers, we need deer/animal skins and buy a coupla belts. Make back quivers outta the furred skins, like mine, and side quivers- haven't seen them anywhere else for sale.

Mainly, color. Whitewoods, like the hickory and elm I use, need a stain for hunting. Thanks to the work of so many great bowyers, it's no longer a performance issue. It would probably easier to show the different stains we have to color the woods.

A 25# longbow would probably be a special order, so about $225, straight limbed, your choice of grip, probably no rest being so narrow. You would pick the stain. If you wanted extras, like recurves or fancy decorations, it would be more.


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## therazor302

That sounds pretty good. Where you guys going to make a store or just run this online?

Sounds like you guys have everything checked then.

Ahh alright =P

Sheesh I underestimated the price of a long bow. I think i'll just stick with the olympic style recurves =P


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## kegan

So far, we have no idea. Just build them inthe shop (they're custom bows, not manufactured). Mostly to people aound here, and orders via e-mail. We're looking into a spot wehre we could set up shop, and we're probabaly going to set up stands at festivals or whatever. 

Just have to get the materials. That stuff we can make up in bulk.

That's a custom longbow. It's alot eaiser to make up a simple 40# D bow, no frills, probably about $100. A fancy longbow like the one I spoke of before takes alot of work and care.


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## kegan

Update on my projects...

Working on a stave dryer. So far, it seems to work. Just don't know how well yet.

Started a short bow. 55" long (out of a failed longbow), heavily recurved, and still wet. Once it dries I'll let you know how it's going.

Need to get a few boards or something. In need of a good bow. I'm out!

As for the busniess...

I'm starting to think smaller. Just make up a bunch of bows for fun of various lengths, weights, and what not, in a bunch of desings, and sell them in little booths at festivals and waht not. Small, simple, and fun.


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## kegan

I'll get pics of a bow I made up, from an older one, soon. Just have to let all the stains and paints dry. It's a nice one.


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## kegan

Here she is- No Nonsense. 66" long, a little over 70# at my draw length (27.5"). Shoots hard and fast, but requires more to get it to shoot as accurately as my six foot bows.


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## therazor302

That there is a beauty. If you guys do start selling there are plenty of successful stores that sell traditional off of ebay. Or you can move this post to the classifieds and start selling them there. I would try to be the first to get one but I need to get a job first =P.


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## WOWcham

I have finished my second bow and took it out and shoot it today at five yards for not shooting instinctavley for a few years i took to it again and was grouping the arrows.I named it the ugly, my first was the bad so my third should be perfect. It trueley is ugly but it gets the job done with its wrinkley brown paper backing and ugly orange parashoot-cord sring.


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## kegan

Thanks razor, we've been talking and it seems that the easiest route is to just make a bucnh up with various draw weights/draw lengths, and sell them at festivals, ebay, etc. Really small scale kinda stuff. Makes them cehapre and quicker to buy:wink:.

WOWcham- oh, they'll get better. Im just now starting to make them look nice. Before they were as ugly as sin!!


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## WOWcham

I started working on a bow with a handle today, 72" long 50lbs at 30" is what i am shooting for lower brace height 4-5" 10" riser 15" fades and shallow handle made from red oak. I have the fades roughfted out and the handle glued on i just have to take down the width and decide if i want to back it probally not. Latter today i am going to cut down a hickory to work on wile i am at my grand parents for the next 10 days.


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## kegan

For such a long bow, such a low brace would be a rather poor idea. Something about 6" would be good. Keep the handle shorter on you next one, about 4.5" handle, 1.5" long fades on both sides. How wide are you going to make it? While working on the hickory, don't try to bend it. Hickory is a beast and shouldn't be bent until properly dried (about six months).


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## WOWcham

http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/oak.htm


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## kegan

Ah. I wouldn't use that as a giude to build a bow unless you're using a board like he is. Here's a simple bow you can build from that hickory of yours:

Cut the tree or branch. 3" diamter is two staves, 6"-8" is four+ staves. I would choose the first for your first bow. Straight and clean. No bends or knots. Don't bother killing a tree that won't make a good bow.

Cut it into 76" sections, or a 76" and whatever-you-can-get. Be careful of waste! Peel the bark off by hand. No tools necessary. Use a hatchet or machete to split it from the top down into two (or four) staves.

Set all but one away in a warm, dry spot for a six months or so to dry. Yeah, it's a long time- but good dry wood makes for fast strong bows. Take one and rough it out.

The bow will not have a handle (like an old Native American bow). If you really want a handle, select two staves- one thin, one deep. 

The D bow (Indian bow) will be as tall as you are. Make it 1 3/4" wide over the full length, 1" thick at the handle, tapering to 3/8" tips. The bow, while drying, will pull into reflex this way. It won't last, but I feel that if you can concentrate the warping somewhere, reflex is the best bet.

The deep handle bow will be as tall as you are, but you will likely bring it down later. It will be about 2" wide over the full length. The handle will be left full width too, but 1 1/5" deep, 8" long. From there the limbs go from 3/4" thick to 3/8" tips.

As you can see, teh D bow requires less wood. Later on, you will also see that it will be easier to tiller. ither way, you set these aside to dry for several months as well. In the mean time, try a board bow or two to practice.

I might be doing another build along soon, and if I do, it will be one of these bows (probabaly both at the same time, if the wood is deep enough for a handle, and splits cleanly for two staves).


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## b18intega

im going to try to make another one this month, and im trying to make crossbow


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## WOWcham

I am useing a board probally should have told you that. Have the hickory bakeing in the sun will try to fininsh it the last two days i am down.


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## kegan

B18- I would shy away from a crossbow. Unless sinew backed, they will lose power really quickly. They're also less accurate and less powerful than a longbow. Harder to make too. But, to each their own. If you're really ineterested, pick up the latest issue of _Primitive Archer Magazine_- Marc St. Louis (an absolutely astounding master bowyer) makes one.

WOW- ahhh. for a board, then it'll be fine. If you mean get it shooting when you say finish- I would say "NOOOOO!" Hickory needs several months to dry properly. Don't risk it or it will be slow and weak and wwon't be nearly as good as it could be.

I've got several new bows in the works. Soon I should be able to get photos up. I've got two longbows (for me)- one of which is a nice character bow with a hole clean through the limb. The other isn't quite so far along. I've also got a 55" hickory recurve that I'm going to finish up at 50# or so for sale. It's a real nice little one.

Any of you guys want to make really great bows, head over to primitivearcher.com and/or pick up Primitive Archer magazine. It'll greatly speed up your learning period, and you'll be making and shooting great bows in no time.


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## No.1 Hoyt

THats a fine bow Kegan i really like it. A meat makin' machine

I have been gone for a while again i promise i will send you pictures of that osage very soon.


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## Hunter Stolz

Hey Kegan, How much would it cost for you to make and ship me a bow? I need one I can carry to these woods were I live, because I live in the city I can't carry my compound bow and the one I made dosen't have enough power.


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## kegan

David- Don't sweat it man! Your elm is curing nicely, and in a few weeks someone might be getting me a large Osage trunk in exchange for a bow. Thanks for the compliment!

Today we dropped a medium (about 10" diameter) hickory tree, which I'm splitting up into staves and debarking now. Once I get all these taken care of, I'll get started on the build along (it probabaly won't be up for a few months, as I won't bother showing you the beginning, waiting four or so months, and then showing you the last. I tried that before and it didn't work). Anyway, I'll keep you posted.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Cant wait to see your buildalong!


I skinned 2 water snakes last week it was pretty cool. I gave my friend one skin and i kept the other. I took the smaller one because the big one was full of holes. He had no problem with it becasue he doesnt build bows. once i get a similair skin i will back a bow with it.


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## kegan

I should be able to start in the first week of August. I've got to finish the raft for the race and then work on my new hickory bow (she's finally dry!!!). I thinking a simpe Indian D bow- easy to make and tiller, and they're born to make meat:wink:.

Watersnakes huh? DO you have any pictures of the skin? I don't think I've seen on of those. Save it for a nice sinew backed bow!


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## kegan

The hickory bow that I'm working on needs just that- work. The tips seem heavy and the bow feels like the cast would be unsatisfactory. Needs some work, but I have hope for it. 

Also, I'm very sold on the idea of making the build along on a D bow- more english though, along with being Native. Still hickory- but a hybrid of the two types. I've grown fond of them, and have some thoughts on long D bows:

Besides being much easier to build, tiller, and come up with wood for them, they also have a few shooting benefiets. Though they can't have a rest, they can more easily get all wood working eaqually- which means you can shoot heavier arrows without a great lost in cast- which is perfect for hunting. Also, when they are longer, they are much more stable, again, better for hunting- and long range hunting. As well, some of the greatest target scores with selfbows have been with English style bows. The English style bow was developed for economical reasons (fast to build, little material used, made a great bow), but was also used by Native Americans- who hunted for food, or fought for survival in war. This style of bow has been used, and still is used, by many different cultures all over the world. And lastly, I've found that as long as you remember to temper the belly, the bow will wind up with better cast than a wide limbed bow becase the tips are more easily made narrow than on a deep handled bow.

As you can see, I've taken quite a shine to them.


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## kegan

*Updates*

Well, teh character bow was set aside. Gave unpleasent cracking sounds due to poor drying.

So I'm working on the sister stave. Need the bow for Friday! Going so well, but has uncurable sidecast. Still slightly green. I'm hoping it will still work.

The BBC is reborn, only five pounds lighter, and now belongs to my brother. Still a beauty and an accurate shooter. He likes it.

After this weekend I will be done with the raft, so I can work on my stupid chem work and do the build along. I would really like to make a good ELB style bow for hunting this fall anyway. 

I will also try and get some decent broadheads made up soon.

Pics will come if I can get them.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I thought i replied to this but i dont see my reply. I must not of been thinking and typed it on a different thread. lol

to bad about your character bow. I love chararcter bows


I hope its sister stave turns out well. I cant wait to see it

I bet your brother like that BBC it is a heck of a bow


How does an osage elb sound for hunting season?

I cant wait to see your broadheads!

I just finished up a batch of 10 arrows made with shafts from PatB. they are really nice. I went all out.

I dont have pics of the skins. I gave one to my friend. he wanted it and it was full of holes so i wouldnt of been able to use it for anything. I took the smaller one and i think i will put it on a quiver strap.

No off to go back my bow. I havent worked on it for a LONG time


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## kegan

Well, I'm back! The race went very well. Actually, we were cursing and screaming and working our arses off the whole time. We had alot of dead weight and a poorly built craft. Oh well, we got first in our devision, second overall. The girls at the camp we go to (it's mainly just a bunch of friends and family) got the first place all woman trophy and third overall. 

Yeah. It's sister is going well, just drying right now. So far, the only thing handles have over D bows is static grip- how it feels when you're holding it, not shooting. So I'm not gonna make them for mylsef anymore:wink:.

Oh yes, he's shooting it very well. He's been wantign a good bow of that sorta weight for a while now, and he's gald to finally have one. 

Sounds good, but we might have to wait and see how the ELB from the build along goes. I'll start tomarrow, since I have a bunch of stuff to get caught up on today. I'll do it all up on a word document and then do it all at once later, after it has dried and been finished (so about the begging of October). It will also be for the whitewood ELB challenge Minuteman started.

Me niether. Just need a good mesh dremel bit!

SOunds like a good plan, and a good way to make use of a skin that wouldn't have worked. I think it would look really cool on a quiver, but I like my bows as simple as possible:wink:.

Can't wait to see it! 

Here are a few pics from the race, our team at the beginning, us getting our trophy, and the girls accepting with their trophy. The whole weekend was a blast.


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## kegan

*Alrighty then...*

Well, I was going to start the build along on Tuesday, went out to cut the tree and eveyrthing. Unforunately, I had to switch to an elm that had signs of Dutch Elm disease or whatever. It, however, isn't very good for a build along. 

So I'm just going to type up a document on how to make a bow, with pictures where they need to be, and email it to anyone who wants to build a bow. I'll let you know when I'm done typing it up.

Also, I'm working on a Sassafras ELB, it'll take me a week or so (need to dry it, then temper it, then back it, etc.). Again, I'll keep ya posted.

I'm also going to try a hickory billet takedown. Had two logs that were for arrows, but due to knots would have been tossed to the fire anyway. So- a bow! I'm thinking they're still too wet, but I'm working on it anyway. I'l keep ya posted on it as well.

Darn, there simply isn't enough summer left!


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## No.1 Hoyt

Congrats on your raft race race!!! I really like the way you powered the raft. I would of never thought of it.


I cant wait to see your character bow! I love bows with some character


i cant wait to see that sassafras elb. I bet sassafras is a great wood to work with. Its pretty, light and smells good.


I cant wait to see that takedown!! I love takedown bows. Will you post a picture of your sleeve you you start to work on it?



There isnt enough summer at all! My goals are to finsh 2 1/2 bows before august 25.


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## kegan

Thanks. Yup, it would have worked well too. But we wound up doing more paddling than peddling. Next year, I'm gonna build a super canoe for everyone.

I know, they are so appealing! tricky to build though.

It is. Tough to make into a proper bow though- needs care and a good backing. It's a pelacure to work though, and I hope it turns out well.

Will do. I'm most likely just going to butt two billets, with a slight angle on the ends for proper alingment, into a strong piece of pipe. Real simple.

I know what you mean! School and hutnign season coming up, not enough time!


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## No.1 Hoyt

Super canoe thats awesome a canoe on steriods


I hope your sassafras Elb turns out well. 

That sounds good for a takedown. I am especially excited to see it

Summer is too short! Also I am a reciever on my schools fottball team so practice will cut into bow building but i will still find time, i will make time if i have too


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## kegan

You bet. Twenty feet long, made of boards and a tarp...:devil:.

I do as well. Once it's done drying, I'll take photos of it roughed out. It's a veyr prety bow- I actually know what to do with this one, unlike all the other sassafras bows I've made:wink:

Yup- trying to keep it simple. The only trouble I'm having is moisture content and figureong how to put a round handle on a flat back? I'd also like to have a full 4" of overlap (a diagnonal cut across both). I'll get photos when it's starting to come together.

I didn't know you played football! Keep jumping in weight and eventually you'll be quarterback. Arhceyr builds the arms:wink:! And that's teh idea- make time.


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## João_Almeida

kegan you dont want to teach me how to do one?


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## No.1 Hoyt

I cant wait to see that sassafras bow! I really like sassafras. The wood is really pretty i think.


That sounds good for a takedown sleeve. I cant wait to see this one!


Ya this is my first year playing football. Im not a big guy 6' lower 140s in weight. I can take a hit better than alot of the bigger kids on the team though and im fast so i think i will do fine. Archery really does help! I couldnt do more than 5 pull ups before i started shooting my bows. NOw i can do a bunch. It really does build up the arms.


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## kegan

João_Almeida- I'd be happy to! What sort of bow are you looking to make?

It is. Luckily, I don't have to ait as long as I thought I did for drying, as the wood is already at an appropriate MC. I'm straightenning it now, either tomarrow or Sunday it should be roughed out and tempered- and so I'll take some pictures!

Me niether!

Yup, archery does wonders for one's physical status. We primitive archers are hunks:wink:! It also helps with eye-hand coordination.


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## João_Almeida

i want to do a longbow (i pull 45lbs so i wanted a 43 lbs longbow maybe ) with a piece of wood dunno what kind of wood  i've been reading the posts but i cant understand without being directly to what i want


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## kegan

Well, that's simple enough! Since I'm not finished with the tutorial, here's a quick run thorugh of a board bow. SHould take you two days or so.

One, purchase the straightest grained board of the densest wood avaible. A 1x2 of red oak will probabaly be the most readily gotten piece, from Home Depot or Lowes. Get the straightest, cleanest board you can with the straightest grain. 

Cut it as long as you are tall. Make it 1 3/8" wide from midlimb to midlimb. From there, it tapers to 5/8" wide nocks. 

It should be 3/4" thick in the middle 5", tapering STRAIGHT to 3/8" thick nocks. No fancy handle or shelf, these will weaken the bow.

Cut 1/8" nocks in the tips and string the bow up, gently, to 3"-4" brace height. Shave wood from all the stiff spots. Conitnue until it bends properly. Then raise the brace height to 5 1/2"-6" and recheck the bend, scraping wood from the stiff spots (the handle may remain stiffer as a benefiet).

Once it bends perfectly at brace, let sit overnight.

Next day, gently begin half-drawing it oin front of a mirror or full length window, again checking for stiff spots. Continue, slowly increasing the draw length, until you reach full draw. Never draw it farther if it has a wekla or stiff spot. 

Once you reach full draw, narrow the tips to 3/8" wide and round all corners. Add a grip, or glue leather on to add depth and cushioning. Finish with a waterproff sealnet, such as wax or varnish.


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## kegan

Well, here's the photo of the bow roughed out. So far, it seems like it would pull about 100# or so, so I'm getting close. I'm debating tempering the belly. Need to back it soon.

I'll keep you posted. And on the Osage stave I might be getting


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## No.1 Hoyt

Thats awesome Keagn i hope she turns out nice!


Your osage was finally cut. I cant belive i forgot to take oictures of it though. OUr camera is a huge pain. The grain is plenty good for a bbo. I will take pictues if you want. If were going to trade i should probably take a picture. I dont know how the grain will show up the picture.


I made a ton of new arrows there on PA and they will be up here tonite or tomorrow


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## kegan

Thanks David, I do as well. Right now, she's naring final dimensions. 1 3/8" wide, 72" long, 1 1/8" thick, and tempered. I just need to back it and it should be ready for tillering. I think shell be about 70#, without piking, if I play my cards right.

Excellent. No picutre is necessary. Grain isn't as important for backed bows. I'll shoot you a PM on primtivearcher so we can trade info.

Can't wait to see them!

Oh, and for the building a bow, I forgot to mention. If at any time during the tillering to full draw the bow is too heavy, shave the belly down slightly- evenly, to limber it up. Once finished, if it is too light, cut an inch or two from each tip to strengthen the bow.


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## WOWcham

I finnished The witchery of Archery by Maurice Thompson and the june/july issue of Primative Archer today, so i wanted to do something primativey if thats a word. I rode my bike to an area near a pond to see if i could find some milk weed that i was going to make into cordadge like in the magazine.I came back with about 40-50 thick cat-tail stalks instead that i want to make into reed arrows like the Thompson brothers did, all together a fun day and the invasive grackles better watch out after i get these arrows fletched and heat treated! Any-one know if the Ace standard 2-blade is single or double beveled?


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## kegan

Cattials will make a so-so arrow, but a very good hand drill. Now that's primtive-y:wink:! Don't forget pictures!

Ace is a double bevel I believe. I've found that double bevels are easier to sharpen though. 

Got the sheet to back the bow, so it should be nearing tillering within the week. I'll keep you posted, I really want to make a nice longbow out of this one. I can feel it's gonna be a good one:wink:!


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## WOWcham

Well I ended up with 2 out of 57 total lol! Weight 280-290 grians. I remember the article said i could use thistle and i know where that stuff grows so i will try that. (gathered with a *thick* glove)

I like the idea of black locust arrows that the tbb-1 mentions so instead of a bilets i will use my drying stock for split arrows. And some of my other stuff for a bow have to wait till winter tho ugh.

Ever tried to make a western indian bow?


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## kegan

Thistle for what? I've tried thistle for cordage, but it takes some work getting the strands. I didn;t use gloves, just run the back edge of your knife up and down the stalk before you rab it.

Mhmm. Arrows are much more important than the bow for accuracy anyhow:wink:! I would wait until the log is fully dry before you split it out and plane it down, as wood splits more easily dry, and they won't warp.

Not yet. tried a few wide, short recurves, but they are hard to shoot accurately, and I didn't have the sinew to give them great cast. They are neat though, and I'd like to make a slightly longer version (to accomodate a modern draw) from sassafras and sinew.

The sassafras longbow is in the breaking in stage. Over the next few days I'll get overlays on it, paint it, and finish tillering it out. Hopefully it'll be done by some time next week. This sassfras is a pain though, not as tough sa the hardwoods I'm used to using! What I'd give for a good dry chunk of hickory lol!

Pics to come when she's pretty. She's indecent at the moment:wink:.


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## WOWcham

Thistle for cordadge if you boil it it is supposed to be a little easyer.

I like the Hupa bows and patterns. Also the


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## No.1 Hoyt

Now all you need is some juniper, or vine maple and back it with sinew. Wow there bows were so short and recurved and they still got 24-26" draw.


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## kegan

I knew the style you were talking about. I don't really ty it alot because they're for very close range hunting with lighter arrows. I like slightly heavier arrows and longer range. Easier to build also. Also, my draw is 27.5"- I have trouble with the 22"-25" draw.

Well, teh sassafras is giving my trouble. Because of the backing, I can't straighten it agan, and there is a bend in the handle that throws the tiller WAY off. It's driving my nuts.

God I want a piece of hardwood!


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## kegan

Here's the sassafras bow. Came out 70", 65#. So-so cast due to very bad building, the next one will be better. Hopefully no backing that go around. We'll have to see. More picture when it's done and pretty.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Wow that sure is pretty. I like it I bet it really is light. What a pleasure to carry for all day hunts

Now i need to start finishing upmy bows if i want to get anyhting done. With my red oak pyramid i am halfway through low brace. I cut out the dimensions for a laminate bow so it will probably take a ton of set so im only going for #50. That elm will be my heavy hunting bow


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## kegan

Yup, nice and light- and a real sweet shooter. But too light and too little cast for my taste, so I'll wind up selling it or giving it away. We'll have to see though.

Can't wait to see them. The elm is big enough to cut into two long, 1 3/4" wide flatbows, easily capable of pulling up to 75# or more if you cared to go that high. What's your laminate made of?

I started two more hickory bows, but they still need about a year or so of drying. I'm hopeing that Pat's Osage gets to be a real nice hutnign lognbow for me. Mullet's mulberry for the takedown should come the week after next.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I am sure you could find someone who would want that sassafras bow. It looks like a fine bow

that sounds great about the elm. I cant wait to start. I will cut it into two pieces then one for me and one for my brother as his college graduation present. I may try heat tempering. How would i go about doing that?


I cant wait to see that osage bow from pat and mullets mulberry takedown. they should bothe be really nice bows. They are bothe first class woods


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## huntergaither

*?*

I just finished a maple board bow. does it need to be backed? If so with wat?
do you think the maple will turn ou?t

Fixing to start on a red oak board bow. any more advice.


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## No.1 Hoyt

No since your maple board bow is already finished and it held up it doesnt need any backing. You only need to back bows if their grain runs off the board. If your board has perfectly straight grain you dont need to back it.


I back my bows with linen


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## huntergaither

thanks man i havent shot it its still tillering not exactly finished but close. i might have it done tommorow. does anyone use a draw knive. i found it quite easy using it


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## kegan

David's got me covered when I'm not here. How convenient! You can also back a bow with an old cotton sheet. It's what I use since that's all I've got on hand. It shouldn't need it if you BREAK THE BOW IN properly. I've seen several people loose bows to not breaking the bow in, and alot of bowyers have to disgard their bows later when it becomes too light after shooting it in.

Maple is a good bow wood. What style and dimensions are you using? Red oak is slightly less dense than maple, so it should be wider to reach the same weight.

The drawknife has been, and still is, the main tool for bow building. I use it for final dimensioning and tillering, it's truly a valuable tool.


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## huntergaither

I am using your build along but i started tapering it about 12 inch up. thats bout it i am guessing thats itll be round 75# 64inch. I was using rasp till i got drawknife man was that a pain! I love the drawknife!:wink: if i can get pics up they will prob be here saturday, first day of school tommorow


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## kegan

Be careful- don't guess the weight until you actually weight it! It's easy to come out underweight. Also, don't be discrouraged if your bow is a bit inaccurate, such a short length will make it more difficult to shoot than a compound or modern glass backed bow.

I got the Osage stave today from Pat! It should be done within a few days! Hopefully it turns out nicely.

David- heat termpering is pretty simply- just move the gun over the floor tillered, fully dried piece's belly is evenly toasted and nicely browned. Let it sit for a day and then tiller it out. May need two goes to get the belly properly tempered.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I cant wait to see that osage bow!!! Should be sweet!


THat sounds good about heat tempering. I am going for #60 @ 26"

I do what i can to answer question but most of the time its wrong or i leave out something important!:wink:


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## huntergaither

Well i am pretty sure thats it going to come out over weight because i left it pretty thick. Also is osage the same as a bodock tree?


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## No.1 Hoyt

yes osage goes by bodark, hedge, hedge apple, horse apple, bois'd ark to name a few


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## huntergaither

Thats why yall use it a bodock is the toughest tree i no of. I have got my brother into bow building now he made his first board bow today an its started tillering


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## kegan

Yup, Osage is veyr tough- but is also very stong in compression. Densest wood in North AMerica, and was used by Natives when ever they got the chance to use it. It was prefered by Art Young for his strong hutnign bows on his adventures for bear, lion, and other large game. I need to back it with rawhide though, the rings are VERY thin. Good to hear you got your brother into bow building too!

It's easy to think it'll come out overwieght, but go slow none the less. It's easier to take wood off than put it back! Just remembver to break it in properly at brace before you start drawing it.

David- you can easily reach 60# with tempering. It boosts the weight about 5#, making it easier to come out at weight.

You seem to answer them just fine to me.


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## huntergaither

yeah his came out bout 60 pound at 28 draw. its 72 inchs long an a real shooter. i made a shorter version out of the same board that was 55 in. it turned out to be 50lb at 20 inch draw. i am thinking bout cutting down a bodock to make a bow from but got to find one thats not knotty


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## huntergaither

kegan wat happened to that little recurve you posted earleir.


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## kegan

Sounds good! When you do cut the Osage (and I'll always refer to it as such because it is named after the Osage Indians), make sure you split it in half, and seal the ends with chepa wood glue, paint, or shellac to prevent bad checking. Let it dry for several months before taking off the bark and sapwood, and then split it again (if you can) and let it season for a few more months. If you have Osage, take care of it, not all of us are so lucky:wink:! And never forget some of your buddies on AT, hint hint lol:wink:!

Which one? I've made several that I didn't finish. 

I got a backing on my Osage today (cotton or linen, dunno which). It'll be a few more days to a week until it's done, but I'll get a picture once it's tillered.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Osage is an amazing wood and its hard to get for people like kegan:wink:
I live in the midwest so its all over.


I cant wait to see that osage bow!! I hope you make meat with it


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## kegan

I gotta say, Osage has one major advantage over other woods, besides being stronger in compression, and that is that its density makes it harder to come in underweight, and requires no heat treating (though you always can to bring the weight up). It's a great wood. We've got some in PA, but not enough to get alot, or get any if the owner won't let you cut or it's too small. Take nothig for granted:wink:!

I do too. The deer seem scarce again this year, so I'll have to really have a go at it, and maybe look elsewhere (state game lands) for them. I've been finding turkey feathers though, so I might be able to bloody a few arrows with turkey this fall. The backing should be dry and trimmed by tomarrow morning, which means I'll spend tomarrow tillering and tuning, and, hopefully, taking the first couple shots with it. Which means, if all goes right, I would do the tip overlays and painted designs Wednesday, Thursday I would do the rest of the fine touches like the grip and strike plate, so by Saturday or Sunday I should be done. 

Now if only I could make some broadheads up!!! I need a mesh cutting disc for the dremel. Then all I'd need is practice for arcehry season. What a luxury it would be to be all done and ready!


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## huntergaither

its a recurve thats just under 40 inch long you still had it drying. yep i am looking for the perfect tree but all the ones round here are very big an knotty. if i have spare i will keep you in mine because their every where down here in tennessee. hey kegan an hoyt post as many pics as you can it would be much appreciated:wink:


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## kegan

The big ones will yield cleaner staes. And don't forget- knots can be worked around, and crooks can be steamed or heated out. Thanks! I know several bowyers in Tenessee who make beautiful, and deadly, Osage flatbows.

That recurve broke. Their was a fault in the wood that would have survived on a larger bow, but not such a short one.

There will be half finished pics of the Osage tomarrow. She's breaking in and I'm gluing on the leather padding on the handle.

I'm also working on a surival knife, similiar to the Tracker by Tom Brown. Need to forge it though, and have to learn how to do that primitively (no tools).


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## No.1 Hoyt

hunter there is a huge primitive gathering in Clarksville tenn. I should be going next year. Its the first weekend in may. 

I would check out primitivearcher.com if you havent. Kegan pointed me there and it is a great website!


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## kegan

David's always catches up my slacking off! Do check out primitivearcher, and the Twin Oaks gaterhing in Clarksville. _And _Primitive Archer magazine! All have lots of help, and will lead you on the way to making great bows.

I'll also get the template of the knife I want to make up tomarrow as well. I'll start trying to get it made tomarrow, see how it goes.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I cant wait to see that knife What sort of steel will you be using?


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## huntergaither

yes i will try primitive archer thanks guys and maybe yall will see me up their clarksville is only bout a 3 hour drive from were i live. so david your guna be their


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## huntergaither

Kegan if your going to hand forge it try lava rocks for the heat an you will defitanly need a blower i like blacksmithing just not very good. cant wait to see it


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## No.1 Hoyt

Yes i will probably be there

I would like to see some of your stuff you blacksmith. Are you able to post pictures?


I will be at football practice from 3:00-8:00 for abou the next 8 days. So i wont be on then. O practice will be soo hard.


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## kegan

I'm using leaf springs from an old truck. I tried forging, and it as getting soft, but gave it up. My brother's helping me out by cutting it out with a sawzall, and then I'll grind it to shape. Should take a few days longer, but none the less, I want this knife!

Sorry, no pictures of the bow. I got the handle glued on, got the bow tillered and broken in, and started shooting it in. It shoots well. I'm pleased with it. Need something to pretty up the back (cloth), but don't know what I can use. Maybe paint it. But the overlays are drying now, and should be done tomarrow. I'll make a point to get some pictures. It's 70" long, 80# at 27.5", and quite accurate. It's a good bow.

Once I get the knife done, I'm thinking about doing a quick run through on a survival bow with it. I also got some mulberry billets to do a takedown bow. I'll keep you all posted.


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## No.1 Hoyt

cool knife! I am excited to see it

I cant wait to see that bow! I bet it sweet!

Well i dont need to go to practive until 6:00 because i had to get a sports physical.


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## kegan

It should be done it about a week. I'll show some pictures when it's cut out for the most part:wink:.

Pictures tomarrow. I think I'l paint the back tonight.

Give you some time to play with bows.


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## huntergaither

sorry david no pics. but i am all most sure that i will be going to the gathering. KEgan cool knife realy like it:wink: but post some more pics of it when done. david so you play football.


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## No.1 Hoyt

well i did play football as of 4:45 today until i found out that football games conflict with trap shoots and my dad coaches the trap team so no football. Too bad because i was very excited about it. Maybe another year.

I was the tallest and about the fastest reciever. 6' 140lbs not very heavy but considering all the other reviers are like 5' 5"
and some weigh under 120 lbs. Now i am not trying to say they are too small or i am any better because bragging isnt in my nature.


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## huntergaither

Man i would love to have a trap team were i live. so wat will they do at this get to gether


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## No.1 Hoyt

shoot,build bows, flintknap, whatever you want really.

I would go to primitivearcher and check out the threads about it. They have a few with a ton of pictures. To be able to see the pictures you have to become a member.


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## kegan

And you can ask questions about any of these topics and more, as well as see tons of well-crafted bows and materials. And they are some of the nicest people out there.

Here is the knife so far. It weighs a few pounds, but chops wood like a dream and still carves well. It needs alot more tuning and what not, but I'm suprised how much I got done (I was up until 2 in the mornign cutting and grinding, and got four striaght hours of work in today). I'm pleased with it so far.

And here is the Osage bow so far. It's shooting, but needs more cosmetic touches. It draws about 82# and shoots quite well. Haven't shot this weight in a few months though, so have to work back into it so I can shoot it even when I'm tired. Need to finish painting the back, apply the finish, and sew on the handle wrap. Then it should be done.


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## huntergaither

Cool knife kegan. David thanks havent been able to set up a account yet i have been real busy. just started school. So you working on any bows


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## WOWcham

Hey i keep hearing you talk about breaking in a bow can you explain this? On a side note i am really bored waiting for wood/nettles to dry so i am searching for things to do maybe make a knife, is it hard and where can i get the steel?


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## kegan

Here's the finished knife blade. It's good, but not what I'm looking for, so i gave it to my brother to put a wooden handle on and keep. He likes it, so it's all good.

Breaking in a bow is getting it accustomed to the string- breaking the cells of the wood in, pulling in on the back, compressing the belly, so it won't happen later. This prevents fracture in some cases, and prevents a loss in weight and cast later. I accomplish this by leaving the bow braced overnight once I reach full brace height. It is a necessary strep in bow building.

Making a knife is ALOT of work. I've spent three days straight cutting, grinding, filing, and polishing- and that's WITH the aid of power tools. If you can forge, or know someone who can, I'm sure it's MUCH easier, and simpler. You can get good steel from the leaf springs in the suspension of old vehicles. They're layered above the rear wheels. That's what this one is made from.

If you're looking for stuff to do, try the hand drill. Any soft, non-dense wood will work for the base, like cottonwood, aspen, willow, basswood, cedar, etc., and any wood-like stemmed plant, like yucca, sotol, mullein, willow, goldenrod, horseweed, etc. It's lots of practice, and a real neat trick (and useful skill) once you get it.

I'm applying the finish now. The bow should be done by... Sunday or Monday. Lots of pcitures when it is.

I also might be getting some bamboo in the coming month. Possible all boo bow, and a few bamboo backed bows, as well as a couple whitewood flatbows I want to make.


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## huntergaither

Kegan awsome knife. i finished another maple bow. its 40 pounds at 27 inch draw a real shooter to


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## kegan

Thanks! If he ever gets a handle on it I'll post some pics of it.

Maple makes a good longbow- I'm not suprised. Do post piocs when you get them.

The Osage bow will be up tomarrow. I've also made a Scout sheath for my KaBar, I'll get pics of it up too.


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## huntergaither

well i made it as a present for somebody an i am trying to not get attached to it. In my opinion i like maple better then red oak. kegan have you ever heard of heating a bow to make it bend. We take a torch while its tillering an heat it. it makes the bend better in my opinion


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## kegan

Maple is usually a little denser than red oak, and so makes a better board bow. 

What you are doing there is bending the wood- not as you would by drawing it, but by ACTUALLY CHANGING THE SHAPE OF THE BOW. The heat makes it take that shape, and it will be slower, and weaker (in terms of draw weight) than otherwise. Trust me, the performance of the weapon will be much better if you don't do this. This is deflexing it and is a very poor choice for a hunting weapon. A bow will always follow the string somewhat on its own anyway. It will make it bend more easily, but you are making it a lesser weapon by doing so- and you won't know what a selfbow is truly capable of by doing this. You can use heat to cheange the shape of the bow to whatever you may desire (reflexed, relfex-delfex, gull-wing like the Plains, recurve, etc.), but what you are doing is a bad idea. How much has it followed the string?


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## huntergaither

i dont no wat you mean by follow the string. I just like heating them if their a high poundage bow. i also like the look it gives them


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## kegan

String follow is the amount the bow stays bent, from straight, after unstringing. The weapon will be stronger, and to make it lighter just shave the belly down slightly. Yes, it will take longer, but the weapon will be lighter (physcially) and follow the string less- making it a MUCH better bow. Also, tempering the back of the bow puts it in danger of fracture. It's an all-round bad idea. Try tempering the belly- heating the belly until it turns dark brown (not black) all over, and letting it cool. This will make the bow stronger, and even faster.

Here's the knife sheath- scout style. It could be better, but it works well enough. I'm getting more use from my KaBar none the less.

Here's the bow, named "FireStick". It's 70" long, Osage backed with a linen table cloth, and draws 82# at my draw length. It's a real shooter, and quite accurate. I like this Osage, but I gotta say, well made whitewood bows shoot just as well. But this will be my hunting bow this fall, I just need to practice with it. 

I also cut some white oak and sassafras today.


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## WOWcham

I thought you just said not to temper the back lol!That looks really cool. Hows sumacc for bows or maybe overlays its such a good looking wood.


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## kegan

I painted it, not tempered:wink:. Thanks. Sumac will make a bow- either a flatbow, or a D bow, but it won't be as strong (draw weight) than a denser wood. Just tiller it slowly. I don't think it would need a backing at 50# or so. I know it would work for overlays.


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## No.1 Hoyt

WOWcham said:


> I thought you just said not to temper the back lol!That looks really cool. Hows sumacc for bows or maybe overlays its such a good looking wood.


A man on primtive archer just posted a sumac bow a week or two ago. I really liked it



Kegan awesome bow! I hope you make meat with it. I really like that. I am amazed at how easily osage works with hand tools being how hard it is.

Awesome knife too. I also like that sheath. Good job!


Huntergaitherer, Yes i have one that just needs some finsihing up. My bows are a big ordeal and they take months(and yet the tiller still isnt right!). I also work on and off. I havent touched my bow for a few days. Gosh i wish i had the same drive as Kegan to get things done.


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## huntergaither

david


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## huntergaither

just call me hunter. i am looking for wood now to make me a bow still havnt found a osage though


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## kegan

Thanks David. Hopefully I lay something low. Those tree rats are sure pushing it:devil:.

Well seasoned Osage wasn't all that hard to work- which suprised me alot. It did have a few problems with slight gouging, but came out pretty nce. 

My secret is that I'm always searching for that "perfect bow":wink:!

I'm also working on two sassafras bows, to see if I can make get it from green wood to finished bow quickly. I'll have to take the drier out of storage though.


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## kegan

I've got a sassafras and a white oak ELB blanks roughed out and drying at the moment, a sassafras flatbow (which I will straighten out and recurve perhaps), and I am redoing an old white oak longbow that just didn't quite fit my taste- I'm turning it into a narrow, deep handled short bow (66") with flipped tips. I'll have to see how it goes, but if it works, pictures in a day or two.

I'm trying to get in as much as possible before school starts.


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## huntergaither

kegan could you explain to me how to recurve a bow


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## kegan

Recurving a bow is rather simple, especially if you boil the tips or use steam to bend them. You'll need a form for the recurves, which is just a 2x8 or pine with a nice, shallow bend (too steep and it will want to just bend in one spot, or pull out of the trough) leading down to a small trough to hold the tip. You place the tip of the almost finished bow over a pan of water, and cover it with a piece of tin foil (to kep the heat in). You set the water to boil for about an hour, and then place the tip into the trough and bend it down around the curve, clamping it in place. You then leave it to dry and cool overnight. The next day, you remove it from the clamp and do the same on the other tip. Make sure you leave the tips extra wide (at least an inch) so you can reduce them after recurveing- and to make sure the string doesn't fall off if they aren't perfectly aligned.

Recrving is a great way to make a very short bow (62" or less) a capable deer killer, and I prefer to use a hot plate in the workshop, so I can clamp the form firmly in the enarby vice and don't lose as much time. The more sever the recurve, the greater the speed boost- however, the amount of trouble that comes with stringing and making it (and the liability of cracking the limb with overstress) increase even more than the fps does. Good tillering will help account for those couple fewer fps.

The white oak remake should have a few phtos up tomarrow or sunday if the overlays hold and the handle stays. Otherwise, I'll show you some of the bows I have drying. I'll also be doing some broadheads (finally) and showing phtos of them.


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## kegan

Well, cut my toe pretty bad late Friday, had to get stitches. So I'll be pretty slow about getting stuff down for a while, sicne school is starting up this week too.

I'm working on the last tip of the white oak. I'll see if it makes it to brace tonight. Pictures when it's getting there, so a few days off.

The staves I'm drying will be drying, and that's all, for a week or so more before I get to bringing them to dimensions.

I still need to finish up my hutning arrows for this season, but at least I got the points now. Here are the trade points I'll be using. They just need mounted and final sharpenning. I'll also have half a dozen back up arrows with Zwickey Eskimos on them too- but I don't have them yet.


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## [ylee]

*How do you make those?*

ive tried makin self bows before but i dont really know wat im doin...could you give me some pointers?


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## kegan

[ylee]- They're pretty simple. You taper a stick and cut it out to dimensions to optimize use. You then tiller, or begin teaching the limbs to bend while correcting flaws.

What type of bow are you looking to make, and what are the densest woods do you have locally? If you don't have hardwoods to cut yourself, check your closest Home Depot for oak, hickory, pecan, or maple, and sleect a piece of timber with perfectly straight grain. 

A simple longbow, like the Osage above, is 1 1/4" wide in the middle 20", tapering to 3/4" wide tips (for building, they will be narrowed later for speed and good shooting). It is 1 1/4" thick at the center 5", tapering striaght to 1/2" thick tips. The bow is as tall as you are. 

Begin bending the limbs against the floor, and balance them by feel by removing wood from the stiffer limbs and spots. If the bow is too strong, evenly scrape the entire length until it is limbered. Once the bow is bending well, brace it to 4". Remove wood from all the stiff spots, making the bow bend evenly in a nice ellipse. Continue until it bends perfectly, with even limbs and no stiff or weak spots. Raise the brace to 5 1/2"-6" and continue tillering. If the bow feels too strong, again lower the weight by evenly scrape the entire belly. Once the full brace or about 6" or so has been reached, leave it braced overnight to BREAK IN BEFORE FINISHING THE BOW.

The next day, begin short drawing in front of a mirror or such to check the bend as you go for full draw. remove wood from the stiff spots. Once full draw is reached, narrow the tips, recut the nocks, and shoot it in. Do not make a handle, or cut in a shelf. Finish it with a waterproff finish. 

I gotta go, so this was real quick, but ask me any questions you may have. I'm glad to help.


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## [ylee]

Thanks!! yea i got some land and it has all those kind of trees...which kind do u think would be best for a 40-50# deer huntin bow???


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## huntergaither

hey guys havent posted in a while between school preparing for dove an goose season havnt had much time. so has anyone made any bows


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## kegan

[ylee]- The straightest, densest, most resilient and knot free tree/ branch in your area, about 3" in diamteer, and as tall as you are. Even poor woods can make a 40-50# weapon, ESPECIALLY at those dimensions. You will wind up taking alot of wood off, but GO SLOWLY about it. Being in a hurry kills bows. So don't do it. Also, follow the grain and give the roughed out bow a full three months to dry in a warm, dry, well ventilated area. If it warpes, steam it (as you would the recurves I explained above) and striaghten the tips and handle. For your first few bows, I'd bet a can of cola that you will have alot less trouble jsut buying a board or two while your debarked, split stave dry out. They are much easier to use, and can be made into a bow in a few days- staves require at LEAST a few months to dry.

Huntergaither- I'm working on the sassafras longbow but it's still drying, and if I ever get out to Cranberry, I'll stop at Home Depot and get some red oak boards- I would like to try a few flatbows, including an Andaman-Holmegaard (one of the fastest straight stave selfbow designs out there). If I ever do get the boards, they will be made into bows veyr quickly, so I'll have lots of pictures.

Between school and getting ready for hutnign season, I don't have alot of time.


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## [ylee]

k..thanks alot for the pointers!!


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## kegan

[ylee]- you'll probabaly find that the easiest board to purchase is a 1x2 of red oak. A full length board is about $7. Anyway, it's not thick enough for the style I described, but can easily be made itno a good bow. Just make it 1 3/8" wide from midlimb to midlimb, tapering to 1/2" nocks, as tall as you are, and 3/4" thick at the handle tapering to 3/8" thick tips. This should yield an easy-to-make 40-50# bow. Remember to round off the corners.

Also, if the bow comes out close to wieght, but slightly too light, just cut an inch or two from each nock and edo the nocks. Allow about an hour or two for breaking in again, and the finished bow should be stronger and faster. 

Actually, sassafras, juniper, and other light, springy woods can be cut to those dimensions and dried out in two weeks. I'm currently working on a flatbow where the limbs are slightly wider than that, but same thickness, and it dried out enough in just one week of sitting in the sun. Denser woods will still take several months, just like thicker bows/staves.


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## kegan

Today I purchased 11' of red oak 1x4, which will make four bows. All will be Andaman-Holmegaard, one of the fastest styles of selfbows out there (and not that hard to make at all). Unlike previous "Hunting bow" build alongs, this bow would be a good target bow as well. It'll be fast, smooth, with a deep, narrowed handle and about 66" long. Anyone interested in an in-depth build along? I can go all out on this, since it's not about cutting/seasoning the wood, but just cutting it out from a board and tillering. Any takers?

I'm also working on the short sassafras bow, and the two longbows are still drying in the 80-90* sun we're having. I'll keep ya posted.


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## iamnoluck

yes, I am. can get the board with no problem. need one about 60#. my last shoots well but a little slow. do not have any fancy tools so keep it simple. what kind of length we talking. bow season start 10-15-08.


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## kegan

iamnoluck- The finished bow will be between 50-60#- I'm not sure what these fimeniosn will yield. With these boards, I don't have alot of wiggle room. We'll have to see how it turns out, and I'll tell you what you can do to go from there.

As for tools, I won't be covering them. Ideally, everyone would have similiar tools, or be able to get the same tools. However, that is NEVER the case. I'll just give you the dimensions, and steps to making the bow work well. The actual shaping of the bow is up to you. I'll only give you ideas of what type of tools you would be using (heavy wood removers, light wood removers, scrapers/sanders, etc.). I'll be using power tools, but I'll show you how to rough out a bow cleanly and well with jsut a hand saw- no tricky cutting or difficult manuvering.

The bow will be roughly 66" long (all I had as far as the board goes), and will take about a week or so to make. It will have a 28" draw, so you'd make the bow longer if you need a longer draw.


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## huntergaither

kegan sounds like your pretty busy making bows post picks when you get done. i would love to seem them


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## kegan

Will do. The build along will get under way tomarrow, as the glue is drying now. 

I also knocked out this bow from a scrap of red oak board, 66" 55#, and very fast for it's weight with a 10 grain per pound arrow. It took me LESS THAN AN HOUR TO MAKE! So anyone interested in jsut making a bow- take heart, if ou keep it simple, it isn't so hard. I can give you its dimensions later if you'd like them. 

RULES FOR MAKING GOOD BOWS:
1) Make sure the tiller is good.
2) Make sure the tips are light, so the bow will be fast.
3) Don't over-complicate your first bows, either in designing them or building them. You'll be much more pleased with an excellent shooter that's plain than an elaborate bow that shoots like a slug and couldn't kill a rabbit with a broadhead.

The sassafras flatbow will be done soon enough also. The tips are drying also.


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## kegan

I got the bow roughed out and sanded last night. All that's left is to tiller and fine tune it, which should only take a few days, provided I get time after school (have to go in and get my stitches out sometime). I'll keep you posted on how it's going. 

So far, I've removed most of the uneccessary or confusing parts, and even though the desgin is a bit advanced, I think it comes off as pretty doable. It will make a nice final bow.

Oh, and the sassafras took a set back. A higne appeared at the bottom of the reflexed limb, so the whole thing needs more work. It won't be up for a long time I guess.


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## kegan

Well, the limb snapped. I had it bending in the fades and inner limbs, and the leverage snapped the grain where I had cut out the handle. I will be doing another one, more geared towards hunting this week. I'll keep you posted.


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## kegan

*Update:*

Bow is roughed out in thicnkess and the handle. I should get it roughed out in width, then sand it up all pretty like tomarrow. Hopefully tomarrow or Saturday I'll get it bending, soooo by next Tuesday, at the latest, it will be finished. 

So far, this bow will draw about 60#, and has a nice heavy handle that will help the beginner get good, clean accuracy at close range for hunting (15-25 yards).


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## huntergaither

went to home depot an bought me a 12 foot maple board an cut it into 2 6 foot peices. hope to get one bow out of it. when i was cutting the tips the board wabbled an got a messed up cut but maybe can fix. kegan sorry bout the bow.


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## kegan

No biggy, I should have been more careful.

If you give me about four days, I can show you how to make an excellent bow from those boards.

I've got the flatbow roughed out, and braced to 3". It should be done this weekend.


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## huntergaither

well i have one bow tillering it is going to come out at probly 70 pounds at 28 inch draw as of now. but was working on another one an made a slip with the hatchet an split it but hopefully will be able to salvage it to make a kid bow:wink:


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## kegan

That happens. Are you shooting for 70#, or is that just what it's going to be at when you're done?

The build along should be up either Monday or Tuesday, depending on how things go. For the most part, the bow is done, it just needs tuned and then finished. I'll just have to get it all up here and typed out.


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## kegan

Okay, I lied. The bow should be done tomarrow, which means the buildalong SHOULD be up either tomarrow evening, or Monday night.


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## huntergaither

yeah it came out 70 pounds an shoot awsome i love the bow. kegan cant wait for the build along


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## kegan

That's awesome, let's see some pictures man!!!

The build along should definately be up tomarrow evening. The last coat of finish is drying now, and I'm getting the rest of the pictures up now while I've got the time. It came out much ebtter than I thought it would, and even though it's only 65#, I'll be using it to hunt this fall. 

Oh, and here are the big game arrows I'll be using. The Zwickey's were a back up, as I just recently got good trade point arrows done. Tying, riveting, and gluing didn't work, so I'm fascining them with a .375 casing with the end cut off, and smashed in the front. Very tough, and straight shooters. Need final tuning, but I'm ready for season.

Hope you guys enjoy the pictures


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## dbgt

I just had a few questions:

I saw your directions on how to make the board bow on pg 12 

I was going to make the bow 72" nottch to notch ( just becuase i am tall and like the idea of a longer bow. Is there any problems with this?

Also i was going to just use a 68" string from 3 rivers archery does that seem about the right legnth?

Finally will i need to buy to strings or what do you use when you are first tilling the bow, before you go to full brace?

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## kegan

Nothing wrong with a longer bow. Just make sure that the limbs start tapering to 3/8" wide tips a little early, as lighter tips make a faster bow with less handshock. I actually prefer man's height bows myself, but 66" works for a fair average with 2" wide limbs (I'm 6' 2" by the way, which shows draw varies a good deal). Longer bows are more resistant to poor building, and generally faster (they store more energy and have more leverage).

A 68" string is WAYYYY too short. This will over stress the bow, and it might break in your hands when you try to string it. A 70" string would be needed for a 72" bow.

I make my own strings, so I leave them with only one loop- leaving the string long and tying in bowyer's knots (a timber hitch works also) to shorten it as I go. If you can't use such a string, paracord will work also (and in the same manner- one permanent knot and an easily adjustable one).


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## dbgt

Is this what you are talking about using?
http://www.armynavyshop.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=army-navy-shop&Product_Code=rc308


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## kegan

Precisely. It's a fairly cheap and durable tilelring string, and one that always seems to have some use when I forget it in my pocket. However, it makes a poor string for actual shooting, except on some of the stronger bows- and even then it's not good to use.


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## dbgt

Thanks for the help so far.

Do you know where i can buy a string that is 70", so far the longest i can find is 68", and i am not up to making my own yet.

Also as far as tillering to a specific draw length do you just match goal poundage at draw length or is there another step?


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## dbgt

I decided that i am going to try to make my own string so disregaurd that part the question.


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## kegan

dbgt said:


> Thanks for the help so far
> 
> Also as far as tillering to a specific draw length do you just match goal poundage at draw length or is there another step?


As you build the bow, you teach it how to bend. So long as the bow is long enough for the desired draw (about your height for your draw), you can teach it to bend to that draw length.


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## huntergaither

kegan my computer is to slow to upload pictures. an my bow is 72 inches long an is a better shooter than the 55 an 65 inchers


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## kegan

Longer bows store more energy. However, with a dep,heavy handle, the bow can be shortened and most people prefer that length.


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## dbgt

well i have my bow pretty well finished, but my string is pretty rough, i will have to make another one. My string is dacron b50, can i used the same thing to serve it? if so how many strands should i make the serving.


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## kegan

I wouldn't use Dacron to serve it. Dacron isn't very abrasion-resistent. Nylon is better, but cheap cotton thread, two or three ply, would work well also. Actual nylong serving only requires one ply.


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## huntergaither

kegan you think you could give me directions to build a atlata


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## dbgt

Yeah i just don't want to buy anthing else. i am sure i can get some cotton thread.
I also have a reel of fishing line, would that work or would you still recommend the cotton thread?


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## kegan

huntergaither- I don't know enough about how to make a proper atlatl to give you solid instructions. But, it would be about 18" long, lighter than you'd think, and your dart would be thinner, and mroe flexible, than you'd initially think. These are a few problems that I've had with mine.

dbgt- fishing line would actually be alot better! It wouldn't wear as easily, and would give a smoother, cleaner loose. Just make sure it is small enough in diameter, about that of thread, and that you make sure it is tied and glued off well, so it doesn't come loose.


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## dbgt

*it is done*

Here is my finished bow just turned out ok. upper limb is kinda stiff.


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## buckshot95

good job looks really good but the bottom limb has a little bit of a hinge in the middle. Looks really good great job!!:wink:


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## kegan

Nice bow, especially for your first. You got the evening of the limbs down, now you just need to work on balancing with your next one (but that tiller is alot like one of my first decent bows, so don't sweat it:wink. Did you cut a shelf in? If you didn't, you can just flip the bow (if the top limb is weaker, it's not as bad) and shoot it. 

I've got another board bow in the works, but it probabaly won't be up for a while, even after it's done, as season opens on Saturday and I'm really busy.


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## dbgt

Yeah unfortunately i already cut the shelf in. But to me it still seems to shoot pretty well.
The thing is how long will it last, or rather what are the effects of a tiller like mine?

Also the fishing line serving seems to be working quite well.


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## elk country rp

*Kegan's the man!*

I followed Kegan's buidalong from another thread and it turned out beautiful!
Kegan, I'm interested in the dimensions for the bow you mentioned at the top of this page. Thanks for all the help!!


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## kegan

That's awesome! Thank you very much! The tiller is spot on, it looks like a great bow.

Do you mean the Andaman-Holmegaard, then I'm a little short. The one I was working on was made without previous dimensions to go on, and it blew on me. However, leaving the tips slightly thicker and narrowing them down to 1/4", tpaeirng in a concave line, will give you the EXACT speed boost that the A-H bow gets.


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## kegan

*Been some time...*

Since I last updated. So far, no news bows are nearing completion, but I think I'll be working on another baord bow soon, and I'm working on some to sell so my brother can buy a Hill fiberglass longbow as back up.

Anyway, since I haven't got any new bows, I figured I'd at least show you my "camo". Season has been pretty exciting so far, several sightings and some misses, but nothing has connected yet. Hopefully soon though.


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## No.1 Hoyt

cool setup. i think camo is a bit overrated i dont see why people would spend so much on high tech camo clothes. they are nice and they might work a little better but i think normal clothes are usually fine.

i sent out your board this morning should be there soon


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## No.1 Hoyt

elk country rp NICE BOW!!!


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> cool setup. i think camo is a bit overrated i dont see why people would spend so much on high tech camo clothes. they are nice and they might work a little better but i think normal clothes are usually fine.
> 
> i sent out your board this morning should be there soon


I know what you mean. I usually just test things out on my brother- stalk up on him:wink:. But I did get a new flannel shirt for my brithday- brown, tan, and light gray, in a print not unlike the little blocks on new millitary camo. He said he could even see me (and he was looking right towards me).

Now if only deer were deaf.

Thanks!!!! I'll be looking forward to it. i was goign to joint the bamboo today, get it ready to glue on and get it going. I've been itching to try an American longbow, and I think this will fit the bill perfectly!

Oh, I've got the red oak board under way, should be done in a few days to a week. I'm also working on a new shooting glove, I'll post pictres when it's done. Quite comfortable.


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## kegan

I'll have pictures of a small red oak hunting stick, a red oak board bow, and a bamboo/osage laminate (thanks to David W.) up some time soon enough.


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## No.1 Hoyt

great! i cant wait to see those pictures


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## kegan

Well, due to a run off at the tips, the Osge splintered off one limb during floor tillering. So I'm just going to set it aside for now, and work on the others for now.

The small red oak meat stick is being steamed. It was really crooked. Should be done by next Sunday, as well as the board bow- which might be done sonner actually. Both are about 66-68", and no more than 65#, to work on form.

Sorry I odn't have any photos yet.


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## kegan

Well, the board bow blew on me- both limbs gave out. So I'll be working on what I can when I can.


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## No.1 Hoyt

NOOOOOO!!! I Am so sorry about that osage. i hope you can still get somethin gout of it


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> NOOOOOO!!! I Am so sorry about that osage. i hope you can still get somethin gout of it


I will. Just have to glue and patch later. I'm taking a break though. 

On a side note, last night I popped a bottle cap out of the air on the second shot at jsut under 5 yards. Had my brother throw it for me, and was using my 76# Osgae ELB.


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## kegan

A challenge was started on Primitive Archer to make a survival bow. So, that will take most of my concentratoin (along with bits of hunting) for the next couple days.

Here's what two hours got me with just my Ka-Bar. A semi-roughed out bow of hickory and some arrows (with a piece for foreshafts). Now, I tried to start with a piece of sassafras, but it was half rotted (I hadn't noticed) and I gave up on it. 

I will let the arrows begin to dry (having cut them to length already), and straighten them as they do. Once they've dried out, they'll be nice and straight. Then I'll scrape and sand them (with my knife and some sand stone) and turn them into arrows. 

As for the bow, I'll see what I need to do with it. Being only 64" long, I'm going lighter, to make sure I can still accuractely shoot it. So, 50-55#. I'll narrow the tips and temper the belly if I have to give it power and speed. I'll keep you posted.


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## No.1 Hoyt

now thats really cool if you can a make a good bow out of green wood thats awesome


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> now thats really cool if you can a make a good bow out of green wood thats awesome


Cutting it down to pretty much finished dimensions lets it dry in about a week or two. I'll be starting a second one either tomarrow or the day after also.

This is just alot of fun.


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## elk country rp

*bow #3- probably in over my head*

Well, bow #2 was an attempt at a 53" stickbow for my wife out of some leftover hickory. It blew up on me after looking really good during floor tillering. I left it sitting for 5 days after floor tillering and 24hours on the tillering board at 5" brace height. Then I went elk hunting and forgot about it for almost a week. When I got back from my elk hunt I tried to put the string on and the top limb broke pretty much clean- no splintering, just broke. I didn't really think I'd get away with trying to get a 24" draw out of it anyways. 

So on to #3
*I'd really appreciate input/advice on this one, I'm winging it, just going on a gut feeling.*

I found a nice chunk of red oak with a grain pattern that gave me a little inspiration. Instead of cutting the wood to dimensions, I just followed the grain lines at 2" for the limbs. There's a curve from mid-handle to mid-limb. The cool part is when I run a string line from tip to tip it it looks like my arrow will be centershot. I figure the curve might throw things off a little, but I can't resist trying it. I hope that having parallel grains lines will help resist twisting in my hand as I draw, but gotta do a bunch of cutting, sanding, shaping, and tillering to find out. I glued a pretty piece of burled oak knot onto it for a handle. I'll try to taper the limb thickness this weekend and then try to figure out how to adjust my final limb shape and tillering to minimize any twisting in the hand....

On to the pics:


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## No.1 Hoyt

thats really cool. No grain runoffs int that now. ITs just liek what you would do in making a bow from a stave. This also gives it some nice character. I like it


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## kegan

As David said- that looks fine! It's just a little crooked. Which neevr caused any trouble before (look at some of my past bows... straight is the exception:wink. It'll work just like a normal bow, but you might have to use heat to striaghte the limbs so it bisects the handle during tiller. If you taper/tiller it properly, there's no reason it shouldn't turn out to be a perfectly fine bow.


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## kegan

Here's my fourth attempt at a survival bow, second one that might make a bow. It's elm, and done only with my knife. About 66" long, it should be a fine bow once dry and tillered. 

If I ever get a chance, I'll go about fmaking up a new ALB. I jsut can't seem to find the time.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Whats is an ALB? Is ther a big difference between an ALB and ELB?


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> Whats is an ALB? Is ther a big difference between an ALB and ELB?


An ALB is an American longbow, or semi-longbow. It's got a deep, non-bending handle, and wider limbs. The bows you make, and the style of longbows most prevelent on the market today, are ALB's and American semi-longbows. The main advantage to these bows, over the ELB, is that the flatter limbs are easier to reduce stress - being wider and flatter- and easier to align straight. The narrowed grip also helps in shooting/spining, as your arrows won't have to go through as drastic a paradox, provided the arrow pass is narrow enough, so you can use arrows more closely marked to the acutal bow weight (for an ELB my arrows are as much as 15 pounds lighter. For an ELB they would be only 5-10). Also, many of the staves I have from larger trees are flat and deep, which would lead to alot of wood wasted on an ELB, but used up and taken advantage of with an ALB. OF course, taht still means more work working it down.

It's also my opinion, but I'm not sure, that the depth of the handle leads to a subsequently higher brace height from the working limb. In theory this would help "clean up" some issues one might be havign with form/release, but again, it might just be balogne. 

They're also very appealing to look at.


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## kegan

*I've gotten bored...*

I've got a long weekend, and several projects that have stalled. Obviously, this means I need to start a new one. 

So, I'm thinking "Modern Primitive Compound"!

Recently, a man on Primitive Archer made a wooden compound. Alot of work, and I've not got the materials, but that got the idea going. Last night, I was watching "Crusoe" (a dumb show, but I was too tired to do anything else). On it, his African companion was shooting a Penobscot bow. Horribly innacurate and all, but none the less, this didn't help with the idea what was already in my head.

So, I'm doing a modified Penobscot bow, with anythig else fancy I can work into it! It'll be made from a red oak board, and simply a longer original. Two D bows bound together at the handle. The main bow, 68" long, will be a reflex-deflex, as the original was, with the shorter bow being lighter, but heavily reflexed, to give it high energy storage and full limb clearence.

Now it's up to you all- what would you like to see in this bow? It's not necesarily going to be a hunting bow, I tend toward simple and plain for that, but none the less, I'm trying to get a screamer that would turn heads. 

Any ideas or suggestions? I'll be starting this afternoon, once my dad's saber saw gets back.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I saw Crusoe too and i was wondering wahat he was doing wit that bow. ITs ok they were only a few thousand miles off.


am really interested in the Pebonscot bow. I want to make one sometime. I want to see what you will come up with.


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## kegan

Well, here's the update:

I cut it all out, and shaped them with heat. The main bow was R/D and the short bow was heavily reflexed (about 2.5"). _First mistake, I used a poor grade red oak board- which doesn't hold heat as well as it takes it, and it didn't respond well to tools, then I put too much delfex in the main bow- I forgot about set later on_. After they were cooled, I temporarily tied them together and made two short strings for the in-between strings. A bit loose unbraced, but I knew they would taughten up once braced. Onto tillering. I started bending it on the tillering stick, and noticed it bend too much in the handle _Here my mistakes were not thinning the tips enough for a R/D bow, and then going too quickly while tillering, resulting in a nasty unbalanced tiller and a hinge_. 

So this one is pretty much shot. Using a board was not such a bad idea, and I would have gotten a decent bow out of it if I had planned better. But hickory would have been best, and tillering the main bow before hand would have saved a little trouble. Dang :tongue:.

I think I'll just make a few ELB's and flatbows for the time being. I'll get some photos of the two hickory flatbows I'm working on (and starting a third) tomarrow. Not even done and I'm already pleased with them .


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## TopShot

*Cool*

thats pretty kool that you make your own stuff. I wish i could do that. One day i wanna try to make my own compound out of diff. bows lol


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## kegan

Making your own stuff isn't that hard- a good longbow capable of killing deer sized game shouldn't take you more than a couple weeks work. I'm convinced that anymone who really wants to do it can.

Arrows are the trouble!

I'm sure that years from now we'll see a special model on the market with your name on it!


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## Fortancient

You are doing great works young man. I am splitting sinew as I type and watch tv for a copy of the "exceptionally powerful Osage bow" in the T.M. Hamilton Native American Bows book.

Am still thinking about an Egyptian or American Composit.....ahh for a never ending supply of horn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kegan

Thank you! What style of bows do you like to build?


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## Fortancient

We talked a while back. I made that Sudbury bow in the Ohio Archaeology book. I will make whatever, whenever I have the time and with a nine year old into sports as well as a deer season that has been less than remarkable I think I should finish the sinew reinforced bow next week. So in a nutshell I have dabbled in many types of bows over the years but no true composits.......but that is coming. I kee phyping myself up for it and I am about there. Horn is just so expensive.


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## kegan

Fortancient said:


> We talked a while back. I made that Sudbury bow in the Ohio Archaeology book. I will make whatever, whenever I have the time and with a nine year old into sports as well as a deer season that has been less than remarkable I think I should finish the sinew reinforced bow next week. So in a nutshell I have dabbled in many types of bows over the years but no true composits.......but that is coming. I kee phyping myself up for it and I am about there. Horn is just so expensive.


I remeber your Sudbury. I just forgot that you prefered to dablle than use one type of style. 

A pair of gemsbok horns should only be about $60 or so with shipping. Never bought any myself, but I've seen a number of people make bows from them without too much pocket-pinching.


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## kegan

*Been some time...*

...Since I've posted a bow! I thought I'd show you one that's nearing completion- a bamboo and Osage orange longbow for my brother. His bow (a bamboo backed crabapple I made a while ago) has developed some nasty frets, and is not long for this world in its current state, so I set about finishing this bow up. It had broken off at the tip (which I posted on here about), but I still managed to get a 68" longbow out of it (with 2" asymetrical limbs). It's not tilelred out or finished, but will pull a stout 70-75# at 27" (he's as stout an archer as I am, and conveniently with the same draw). It's probably going to be my nicest bow to date, all things considered. I couldn't wait until it was done, so here's a teaser.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I can tell its beautiful! I cant wait too se it done!

Overall how did you like that osage?


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## kegan

No.1 Hoyt said:


> I can tell its beautiful! I cant wait too se it done!
> 
> Overall how did you like that osage?


A little light and tricky to work, but very hard- definately Osage! With as narrow as it is (about 1 3/8" I believe) and still pulling 66#, it's good stuff!

I'll get the finish (wax) on it tonight, then take care of the grip and what not over the weekend. I'm going out tomarrow with a friend, so it might be done by Sunday (last day before rifle season opens up).


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## kegan

Well, I've got the wax on it. Nice and shiny. I'll have to remember to take more time snading my next one . But it's truly a nice bow- he's happy, and pleased with the cast (when he was hitting the center he was shooting over). He'll do the grip and strike plate today or tomarrow, and I'll get pictures then.


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## kegan

*Here it is!*

Boy, it's been a long time since I finished a bow out. This bow was a tough time, but well worth it. It's a gift to my brother, who stitched the grip and glued on the strike plate. It's got 2" asymetrical limbs, 68" long, and 66# at 27". It shoots very well, and he's very accurate with it. It's named "ThunderStick" because of the lightning color of the Osage. It's one of my nicest bows to date, and my second Osage. It's a perfect huntign bow and I'm _*100% sold *_on American longbows!


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## No.1 Hoyt

Thats a great bow. I love it! I really like the look of the bamboo and the bright osage.
Nice gesture to give to your brother.


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## kegan

Thanks David! The walnut you sent for the riser is absolutely stunning- it's a shame it's vcovered so much. And I'm very happy with it- he needed a bow so much, it makes me happy to know he'll be able to shoot again.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I love that walnut. If you want some more pieces I can send you some


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## kegan

Thanks David. I'll keep that in mind.

All my projects are drying right now, but I need to make some new arrows and noticed a nice hawthorne (I think) while hunting today. Might cut it down and rough it out, having learned how to get bark off thin barked trees when the sap is down.

Beat it with a stick!

Ryano's hawthorn longbow on PA (the one he took 2 deer with) really has me excited about trying this stuff.


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## kc hay seed

kegan; have you ever tried shaving the wood with a piece of broken glass? it seems to work really well.


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## kegan

kc hay seed said:


> kegan; have you ever tried shaving the wood with a piece of broken glass? it seems to work really well.


Once- but Ive tried obsidian (volcanic glass) alot when I started knapping. After getting a bunch of little pieces stuck in my foot I went solely to the cabinet scraper.


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## kegan

I'll be cutting a hawthorn today before I go out with a friend. Tis will be my first time using this wood I'll be makign an American semi-longbow out of it, and I'll see how quickly I can make up a good bow. I'll be taking a bumber of photos along with way, to see how long it would take to make a good hardwood bow from tree to shooting bow. 

Wish me luck, and I'll have pictures about next week.


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## billybob01

Could you by any chance make me a bow?
PM me on prices if you can please.

EDIT- I just want a cheap, 40# selfbow.


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## kegan

Well, my friend and I never went out today- her gradnmother having to go to the hospital- so I got the tree cut, split, and I'll debark it and rough it out. If I have it looking like a bow, I'll get some pictures and put them up tomarrow.


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## kegan

Well, as I promised, here's some photos. As you can see, it's still VERY rough. Which is because the thing is so twisted and gnarled that it'll take me a week of straightennign jsut to be able to reduce it to near-bow dimenions. However, the wood is very hard, and will make a druable bow. Hopefully with a good dark stain it'll turn out looking as well as I intend to having it shooting. 

I need all the luck I can get- this thing's gonna be a monster to make!


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## PA3-DArcher4

It'll be hard . Good Luck! but i fell pretty sure you can do it, just from all the bows you made and posted pix of...


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## kegan

PA3-DArcher4 said:


> It'll be hard . Good Luck! but i fell pretty sure you can do it, just from all the bows you made and posted pix of...


I can do it alright, but it's gonna take alot mre patience than I think I have at times!

so far I've been working on arrows staring it down from across the room. Hopefully it'll jsut give in and not be a bear to steam straight. But it already kicked out of a form and cut my stomach. Maybe its bloodlust is too strong now...


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## kegan

Been a while since I've had the time to post anything on here! School, friends, and the holidays are really wearing me down!

Anyway- I've been thinking lately about building myself a new hunting bow. Just thought I'd compile a list to organize the qualities _I_ look for in a good hunting bow, and go from there:

- long range accuracy
- durability
- forgiveness in shooting errors
- power
- comfortability

The result is a slightly overbuilt longbow, the most practical of which being an American longbow/flatbow. Long D (semi-ELB) if stave dictates it as such. 

If anyone else would like to throw up there list, by all means.


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## therazor302

Wow Kegan how many bows do you have laying around?


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## kegan

therazor302 said:


> Wow Kegan how many bows do you have laying around?


Dozen or so are left in the back room- but only two are on the bow rack- my Osage ELB and my brother's boo backed Osage. I've got to finish up some things for other people, but I'll get started on my own bow after I'm done. With lots of good pictures


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## therazor302

lol why don't you sell the rest of your bows?


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## kegan

therazor302 said:


> lol why don't you sell the rest of your bows?


They're not nearly as good as I can make them now I wouldn't be able to bring myself to put my name on one of them and try to sell it. 

It would be a disgrace!!!

But, one of the bows I'm working on to send away is going to be coming pretty close to being done, within a few days I'll have it done up enough to post pictures (next week?). It has to be done by the 5th, so you'll hav epictures before then lol.


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## kegan

Well, the bow I'm sending away is coming along nicely, so I shold have pictures soon (need more finish though). As are the arrows I'm working on to ship out. 

However, I've got an inkling to do another board bow. This time, I intend to back it with good cloth, and do another build along (this time I'll ask Sticky if he help me put it somewhere where it won't go away- so I can reference it to other's who are looking to make/start into traditional/primitive archery. 

Anyway, I took some photo's of some of the "tricks" I can pull off with a selfbow. Since I don't have an extra person there to tape me shooting mving targets, here are jsut some of the "static" tricks.


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## kegan

And some of the rest. I nailed that little metal brush in one shot at 5 yards. No biggy with guys shooting sights, but in a dimly lit little shop, I thought it was kinda cool.


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## therazor302

Wow that bow is a beauty! The fletching on your arrows make it look even better.


Although I'm not going to lie some of those trick shots seem unnecessary. I can't see a time you would need to lay on a bucket to shoot a buck =P.


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## kegan

therazor302 said:


> Wow that bow is a beauty! The fletching on your arrows make it look even better.
> 
> 
> Although I'm not going to lie some of those trick shots seem unnecessary. I can't see a time you would need to lay on a bucket to shoot a buck =P.


What if I'm napping?

_Most_ of them are unecessary. But that's why they're trick-shots. Just something a little more difficult that I can pull off. Forward cant variance and kneeling/body contortion shots are the only really practical ones. Beyond that, they're just showing off.

And thank you very much! This is my best bow at the moment- and my first Osage orange longbow.


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## HoytHunter09

Nice bow kegan.:mg:


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## therazor302

kegan said:


> What if I'm napping?
> 
> _Most_ of them are unecessary. But that's why they're trick-shots. Just something a little more difficult that I can pull off. Forward cant variance and kneeling/body contortion shots are the only really practical ones. Beyond that, they're just showing off.
> 
> And thank you very much! This is my best bow at the moment- and my first Osage orange longbow.


Well it looks like fun that's for sure =P.


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## HoytHunter09

those are good tricks kegan.


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## kegan

Thanks guys! It is alot of fun

And a good way to see if I'm overbowed.

Can you guys think of any other neat tricks I could try?


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## kegan

Well, I'll have pictures up of the bow I'm sending away for very soon- the finish is drying now. I should have the shelf glued on and the grip stitched on by either tomarrow, or the day after. 

I'm also working on a new bow for myself, and this is one I'm really excited about. It's a R/D longbow- a theoretically excellent design for speed and stability (this is what almost all modern fiberglas longbows are), with a VERY narrow arrow pass for easier arrow tuning, and a modified locator grip to help with consistent- and proper- hand placement. I'm going to be trying for the best I'm capable of on this one, as I want a speed demon that is stable and accurate. I'm looking into trying carbon arrows, and I wnat this bow to shoot them fast, hard, and with pin point accuracy. I'm goig to put evrything I have into this one, so it'll take me a while, but I'll keep you all posted. 

This will be "Attempt at Perfection #1".


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## therazor302

R/D means reflex deflex right? Can you explain the difference between a Reflex Deflex and a regular longbow?


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## kegan

Longbows come in three types: straight, reflexed, and reflex/deflex. A stright bow is striaght, or follows the string slightly (if ou look at my bows, these are stragith). Reflexed bows are bows where, unstrung, the limbs sit back, away from the belly and handle. They are faster, but not as stable. A reflex/deflex bow is reflexed on the outter limbs, but with the inner limbs deflexed- bent backwards, toward the shooter. As I explained above, this allows the inner limbs to be very heavy, and still bend without trouble (the exta mass increasing stability), but with the outter limbs (where the speed comes from) being very fast and light- make a very stable bow that is quite fast!

Though they require a good deal more work (both in shaping, bending, and rillering), they are superior in performance.


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## kegan

Here's a the bow I've been working on for the Primitive Archer Christmas Trade. It's a hickory flatbow, 64" long, a little over 60# at 28". It's got a cloth backing and a heat tempered belly. This bow is much shorter than I'd like, and I added an arrow shelf, but it came out well. Hopefully he likes it

Sorry about the pictures. I was huddled in against the doors of our room trying to get some quick pictures.


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## No.1 Hoyt

That looks great! I am sure he will like it. It looks like you did a real good job on a short length with a heavier draw. I like it:teeth:


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## kegan

Thanks! Actually, you're red oak longbow inspired me- the walnut finish and black cloth back. And it does shoot pretty well- and at his draw I'm sure it will be just that little it better (which is why I'm totally sold on heavier draw weights- mess up a little and the thing still flings 'em!). Oh yeah, I did some really nice osage overlays on tis one, forgot to get pictures though. I'll see if I can get some after this. 

I realized when I was bringing this bow in that this is the typical "Comstock Flatbow", slightly shortened, with a tempered belly. I can see what he means about the performance being good. It only took about 1.5" of total set!


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## kegan

Here are the handle, tip, and unbraced set.Best overlays I've done to date.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Wow 1 1/2" of set! Thats great!

Nice narrow tips too. Gettin every inch of cast with those


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## stickbow hunter

nice i like how the handle turned out. when u gonna start another build-along kegan? like a fancy board bow


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## kegan

Thanks Stickbow! I'm going to do another one someitme this month- I've jsut got to get another red oak board. There's a new forum on the traditional section devoted to build-alongs and what not, so I'll be putting it up there, with a link to there from here.

And it will be a super-duper-wicked-awesome board bow .


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## therazor302

kegan said:


> Longbows come in three types: straight, reflexed, and reflex/deflex. A stright bow is striaght, or follows the string slightly (if ou look at my bows, these are stragith). Reflexed bows are bows where, unstrung, the limbs sit back, away from the belly and handle. They are faster, but not as stable. A reflex/deflex bow is reflexed on the outter limbs, but with the inner limbs deflexed- bent backwards, toward the shooter. As I explained above, this allows the inner limbs to be very heavy, and still bend without trouble (the exta mass increasing stability), but with the outter limbs (where the speed comes from) being very fast and light- make a very stable bow that is quite fast!
> 
> Though they require a good deal more work (both in shaping, bending, and rillering), they are superior in performance.


Gotya thanks, so why make anything BUT a Reflex Deflex bow?


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## kegan

therazor302 said:


> Gotya thanks, so why make anything BUT a Reflex Deflex bow?


They require alot more time and skill. But mroe than that, some people are just happier with the simple; the same way peo0ple still shoot selfbows when there are glass laminated recurves and longbows out there shooting over 200 fps, and coupounds with let-off and speeds approaching, and exceeding sometimes, 300 fps.


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## therazor302

Ahh alright then thanks Kegan.


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## kegan

And to be honest, I just recently figured out why they make such good bows.

Shhh, don't tell anyone.


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## kegan

Well, I'm working on my first R/D bow- a hickory selfbow. It's semi dry, and has the natural shape. I got it roughed out and straightenned, and will have pictures as soon as it starts looking like a real bow.


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## kegan

I'm working on steaming the limbs to shape, and then I'll straighten and finish shaping it. I've also got a new piece of Osage, very nice, but only 63" long. For this one I will HAVE to make a R/D in order to get away with the same performance as my longer bows. I'll have pictures of anything that's getting close.


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## kegan

*Some works in progress*

I figured to show anyone watching some of the bows I'm working on. From left to right: a 67" hickory I'm sending down to a guy in Florida, the short Osage is going to be a R/D- but it needs alot of work and a handle glued on, a 72" white oak ELB- this one is going to be a real workhorse and I might put in some slight R/D to milk a little more cast from it, and my R/D hickory- this one is jsut a pain! I've set about yting to straighten the darn things for about two weeks now? Geeze. Hopefully it'll be a wonderful bow. 

Tomarrow I might be getting my the red oak boards, so I'll set about doing two build alongs- a straight bow and a R/D. The straight to cover tillering, backing- basic selfbow building, and the R/D to see what sort of wicked performance can be had from a cheap red oak board (and also to cover steaming, bending, etc.). 

I'm thinking about doing a couple, to cover all the stuff- the two baords, and maybe a couple staves. So people can build any sort of wooden bow they'd like. What sort of stuff would you all like to see?


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## No.1 Hoyt

Awesome bows! They all look sweet

I cant wait to see them done especially that R/D it looks wicked


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## kegan

Thanks! I'll get pictures up of the R/D after I heat in the limb shape. It looks prettyyyyyyyyyy. 

I've also got the boards to start on the build alongs. Busy busy busy!


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## kegan

Thanks! I'll get photos of the R/D after I get it heated to shape. It's prettyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy .

I've also got the boards, so I'll be able to start the build alongs. Busy busy busy!


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## kegan

Here are some pcitures of the R/D hickory at the moment. It took the heating well, but the tips did move out of alignment slightly. It's pyramid shaped- hopefully the tiller will come in as desired. It's coming along well, I hope it turns out as well as hoped.

I'll be starting on the build along some time this weekend. I won't post it until I'm done, so you don't have to wait forever between posts. I'll keep you posted on how it's going. I just have to find some time around doing midterms. Blech!


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## No.1 Hoyt

Now thats just too cool!:teeth: I really like it! Great shape


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## kegan

Thanks! I'm hoping to get the tiller holds well, and with a FF string it will shoot 80# or so arrows (what the birch are usually). Less work for me!

Also, it's got about 3/4" reflex I hpe it holds.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I hope you can break the 200 fps barrier with some carbon arrows too


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## kegan

Now that you mention it David...

I was reading the Traditional Bowyers Bibles vol. IV last night, and came across the flightshooting chapter. One small passage read that bows shooting lighter than 10 gpp arrows (like my birch arrows) should have ultra light tips.

He made two bows, one had tips half as wide as the other (same otehrwise). They shot the same with heavy arrows, but with flight arrows the heavy tip only shot a coupel paces more. But the light tip bow shot the flight arrows 140 paces more!

I also discovered the secret to a super accurate bow (for me), so I'll be trying to build this "super bow", and get the materials for it ASAP.


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## SDC

*kegan*

I was able to get a nice 5" x 66" eastern red cedar cut today. I just put white glue on the ends, do I need to strip the bark on ERC?

Nice looking RD bow BTW


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## kegan

SDC said:


> I was able to get a nice 5" x 66" eastern red cedar cut today. I just put white glue on the ends, do I need to strip the bark on ERC?
> 
> Nice looking RD bow BTW


ERC, if I remember correctly, checks if the bark comes off too quickly. Luckily, it's a light wood and should dry quickly anyway.

Thank you!


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## SDC

*Erc*

Thanks, I have read in one book to strip the bark to sapwood after cutting but also have been told to leave it on like you said. Sure looks like it will make a good looking bow.
Now I just need to figure out what to back it with, Hickory and sinew seem to be the most popular. I would love to leave it solid erc but would worry about not holding up for long term...


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## kegan

I've heard alot of stuff about ERC being very weak in tension, alot like the sassafras I use. If you made a wide D bow pulling 50# or less, and man tall, it would hold. But it would be easier just to glue cloth onto the back (my favorite). I use it whenever I need to jsut hold a bow together. It's easy and cheap. Hickory will help make the bow perform a little better, but requires careful machine work, and sinew is best only on short bows. Pick and choose what works best for you.


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## SDC

*Thanks*

for your input, I am about as green as this tree I just cut down at this, but learning 

Also I have an interesting selfbow that a missionary friend of mine gave me recently. She grew up in Venezuela and had to move because of political reasons a few months ago. Anyway she found out about my interest in archery and gave me this tribal bow as a gift.

Not sure what wood it's made from but the bow itself is shorter than the arrows, which are made from a river cane. One of the arrowheads has a hunting point which she said they would typically use poison from frogs with. And the other has a barb made from bone for fishing. Check out the craftsmanship :thumbs_up


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## kegan

Very cool . Most of the South American bows I've seen were longer than the archer, so I don't know what to tell you there!

The straight bow is going to be finished within the week, and will also seeming be a wonderfully strong hunting bow for me !


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## kegan

*One step forward, sixty steps back...*

Both of the baord bows are giving me a ton of trouble- one of which broke (I might be able to repair it, I don't know). But I started on a white oak bow, and I know white oak is a reliable wood. Just a little slow to dry...

Nuts.

I'm still looking to make myself a new hutning bow. This is getting to be a pain!


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## kegan

*In the works now...*

I've got three striaght ALB's in the works. One, the white oak, is for a build along- but it's still green. I've also got an elm I roughed out last night, but it needs alot of drying too. I like the elm though, because it's actually straight (side to side) and I won't have to steam the darn thing! Lastly, I got the mulberry billets I traded for from Eddie Parker on primitivearcher roughed out in width and got the handle spliced steamed to fit together. The mulberry is actually dry, so I'll be able to work on it until it's done, without having to wait like the other two. I'll get some pictures of the bows in progress once I have the handle glued up (tongiht?) and pegged.

I've also got the hickory R/D, but I'm taking a little break from it. Last R/D I tried to tiller gave me fits, so I'm taking a short vacation from it with some straight bows-in-progress.


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## kegan

*Therapy?*

Well, I was having a pretty tough weekend. Personal torubles and what not. So to relax, I set about making bows... and bows and bows and bows. I roughed out three new hickory bows, touched up the elm and white oka, and set them all to start drying.

I'll note that they're all the same style- ALB- and very stout. I'm looking for a new hutning bow for myself, and I want something strong and easy to tune arrows to. They're all still green yet, but wish me luck. (Not shown: Osage shortbow, hickory bow for a friend, and red oak R/D).

My family said I need therapy (every time they came in I was working on another bow). I think this was thereapy in itself. We'll leave it for the shrinks to decide I guess


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## kegan

Alright, as it stands the elm is seeming to be dry enough to move onto tillering. I'm going to work the taper in, to make sure it doesn't have any extreme dips or thick spots (which will kill it) and temper the belly to boost weight and keep string follow to a minimum. So I should be able to start to tiller it tomarrow, and within a week or two we'll have picutres of (possibly?) a new hunting bow of mine. This isn't going for pretty (though if I play it right, it will be) but really jsut a nice ALB to fall back on that's designed better than the ones I've made in the past.


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## kegan

The elm developed a crack on the back. I'll see about backing it, but right now I'm working on some of the others, like the white oak for the build along. I'm straightenning it, as well as the heavy hickroy that will probably be my first reliable 80-85#. I also got the R/D hickory to brace, but it stretched my Dacron out way too much, so I glued some bone on for overlays and am waiting for the roll of Fast Flight Plus to get here before I brace it. I also took out the emi-ELB white oak and got some stain on it. It's pretty fast, and seems like it would make a nice 70# trick bow.


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## kegan

Well, the R/D has gotten braced a few times. The FF Plus is working like a charm, but the bow iteself is a crooked, twisted, and requiring a ton of work to get the gosh darn thing aligned! Geeze oh man, this thing is giving me fits!!! I thougth I'd have trouble tillering a R/D, or maybe having the bow keep the shape because it wasn't as elastic (the wood) as modern fiberglass or other wood. Well, my next one (and there wil be a next one lol) will be straight and won't, hopefully, give me nearly so much trouble!!!

Pictures as soon as it decides to cooperate lol.


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## deer slayr

Dude are you rich??? :wink:. You have a ton of bow material, Man I'm jealous :tongue:.


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## kegan

deer slayr said:


> Dude are you rich??? :wink:. You have a ton of bow material, Man I'm jealous :tongue:.


I'm about as poor as it gets lol. I just cut all the wood off our property myself. Only limited by what grows around here.


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## 1willy1

Sure do wish I lived close by. I'm in to bow hunting but nobody close for making trad bows.


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## kegan

1willy1 said:


> Sure do wish I lived close by. I'm in to bow hunting but nobody close for making trad bows.


I was the only person around me building bows. I just read some books and spent alot of time visiting primitivearcher.com's forums asking alot of questions. I'd be more than happy to help you to the best of my ability, and the bowyers on primtivearcher would also!

First of all, what sort of bows would you like to make?

Second what sort of hardwoods do you have around you in large quantity (white oak, Osage, hickory-my favorite here, elm, hophornbeam, black locust, apple, red oak, or any dense, hard wood)?


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## 1willy1

The selfbows you have posted on here look really good.
I shoot compound but always wanted to try traditional.
Around here we have maple,ash,apple,birch that can be found 
no problem.
Once you get a piece does it have to dry first?Can you start right away?
What tools are needed?
Thats enough questions for now.


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## kegan

Cut a straight section of ash, remove the bark (without dmaging the wood) and split it in half. Don't hurt the wood!!! Birch will work two, apple is eht best, but is harder to work. Save it for later.

IT does have to dry. But ehse woods can be roughed into a bow, and the roughed out bow will dry in just a couple months (a while, yes, but if you keep roughing out bows you'll have lots on hand for later- and it will keep you busy).

No tools are needed. Use what you have. I rough out bows with a saber saw (a bandsaw would be better) and a hatchet, then tiller them (make them bend properly) and shape them with rasps. Rasps are pretty much the only tool you "need", because they work so perfectly.

Get "The Bent Stick" by Paul Comstock. It'll start you off with everything you need to know (and it's only $17- no big money spent on it).


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## kegan

*The plan...*

Well, the R/D red oak board bow broke on me during stringing this morning. So, in an attemtp to satisfy my bow-building desires, I steamed one limb of the elm bow that broke across the back (steam because it already had a crack and dry heat owuldn't help at all) and grabbed the 63" Osage stave I had started a month or so ago. I cleaned it up and sanded it off and got it floor tillered. And so here's the plan...

The elm bow will be backed with cotton to prevent further fracture, and that spot (and symetrically on the other limb) wrapped and glued. It will be a R/D longbow, painted all black and fited with Osage overlays and a FF bow string.

The Osage will also be a R/D, but since it's shorter, and doesn't follow a growth ring, I'll back it with sinew and maybe snakeskins over top. I haven't done a short bow for a while, as short straight bows are unstable. Hopefully the R/D shape will make the bow a good hunter, and I'll have somethng to use for spring turkeys perhaps? If nothing else, I'd have another reliable bow on hand (Osage and sinew are very tough stuff- I don't see them failing on me). Again, I'd fit this bow will a FF string, but teh overlays aren't as necesarry- jsut because of the backing. The sinew will take me a while, so it might be a while before you hear anyhting about it. Pcitures of it when it's coming together.

Oh, and I'll be shooting for 75-80# on both of these.


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## Tan-Tan

kegan said:


> Here are the handle, tip, and unbraced set.Best overlays I've done to date.


I have no idea of what the topic is right now, but I have got to say that I absolutely LOVE the picture of the black handle with the white detail, and when I was flicking through the posts I saw a black bow with red flames. They look so good, you have to post some more pictures.

:cat:MiSsY sOxawprint:
awprint:
awprint:​awprint:


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## kegan

Tan-Tan said:


> I have no idea of what the topic is right now, but I have got to say that I absolutely LOVE the picture of the black handle with the white detail, and when I was flicking through the posts I saw a black bow with red flames. They look so good, you have to post some more pictures.
> 
> :cat:MiSsY sOxawprint:
> awprint:
> awprint:​awprint:


The bow with black back and red flames is "FireStick", my first Osage bow. I think the handle you're refering to was "Mystic", a bow I made for another primitive archer for a trade. Thank you very much for the comliments Tammy!!!

tonight I'll have pictures of the thrid Osage bow I'm working on- a short reflex/deflex bow (meaning unbraced it looks sorta like a shallow recurve) which I'll back with sinew and then cover the sinew with diamonback snakeskins.


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## kegan

As promised, a teaser of the Osage bow. It's s tout bugger, and definately will need a sinew backing. Deflexing it bent a 1" thick ash board ! 

Tomarrow I'll finish heating it to shape (more pictures) and hopefully align the tips. If I have time, I'll glue some overlays on and file in the arrow pass.

After that- sinew!!!:devil:

Hope you like the teasers. Now that it looks like a bow, I'll take lots. Like I said, I'm pumped about this little weapon.


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## PA3-DArcher4

Kegan, ya ever have thoughts of going into buisness?


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## SDC

*Wow*

that looks sweet...........

I have plans on going osage hunting this coming weekend :wink:


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## kegan

PA3-DArcher4 said:


> Kegan, ya ever have thoughts of going into buisness?


I have. But with things going like they are, it would be an after high-school sorta thing. But hey, might make a career of it.

Thanks SDC! I'm super duper pumped for this bow. And tell me how the Osage goes. Osage is deffinately one of the best woods there are. remember to seal the ends with glue/shellac/paint to prevent splitting.


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## kegan

Well, here's another picture of the bow in progress. I thinned the limbs, and heated in more R/D (it's a hybrid, or "semi-recurve"). _TOMARROW _ should be straightenning and tips/handle. Hope you like it. Hopefully I'll get mroe sinew shredded tonight.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Wow! that thing is awesome!!! i love those curves:teeth:


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## kegan

I'd like to say it's gonna look that way when it's done, but I can't. Last night I took it off the form and it held most of that shape. Floor tillered looked alot like a recurve, so I lightened the tips- ALOT. Then I took the heat gun to it and tempered the belly- which straightened out the bow. Now it looks like the R/D put in most FG longbows. No worries. I got the tip overlays (more Osage) and the handle leather (needed some build up) glued on, and I _should_ be able to sinew within a week. No more bending, s the back is violated, and the bow is STRONG. I think I'll leave the shape the way it is now, as I don't want a recurve (alignment is a PAIN).

More pictures tonight!


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## kegan

As promised, here are some more pictures. The shape as of now, the leather glued on to fix a drop off edge on the handle, and the tip overlays. 

Next comes sinew! Further shaping will be on hold until after the bow is tillered. I have most of the sinew processed, but I need to finish up a couple more tendons. Again, pictures to follow. Porbabaly... Friday? Tonight and tomarrow I will have alot of home work to do, and sinew is a longggg job. 

Might get some of an elm longbow I'm working on though. Don't know.


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## tpoof

Well, would you look at that! a sinew backed recurve!  darn near.. 
Right on Kegan buddy! looks real good! You HAVE been busy!

I never come to this forum... must be too old...lol.. always liked your bows..
I'll check more often


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## kegan

tpoof said:


> Well, would you look at that! a sinew backed recurve!  darn near..
> Right on Kegan buddy! looks real good! You HAVE been busy!
> 
> I never come to this forum... must be too old...lol.. always liked your bows..
> I'll check more often


Thanks Tpoof! Glad to hear you'll stop by, most of the young archers here don't seem very interested anymore.

It's been a while since I've played with sinew, and a sinew and snakeskin backed Osage "curve" bow sounds like a project I simply had to try:wink:!!!


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## PA3-DArcher4

kegan said:


> Thanks Tpoof! Glad to hear you'll stop by, most of the young archers here don't seem very interested anymore.
> 
> It's been a while since I've played with sinew, and a sinew and snakeskin backed Osage "curve" bow sounds like a project I simply had to try:wink:!!!


Im still interested!!!


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## kegan

PA3-DArcher4 said:


> Im still interested!!!


I'm glad!

Picutres tomarrow. I'm hoping sinew:devil:!!!!


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## kegan

Well, I lied. No pictures today. I have to go shred the rest of the sinew and I might get it glued on tongiht. If not, I'll take some picutres of some other bows I'm working on tomarrow.


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## kegan

Well, got it sinewed! Geeze oh man. Never again will I sinew a bow without combing the threads first! It's butt-ugly. Luckily it will get covered with snake skins, and won't affect the final shooting. I applied a thin coat, without alot of Knox gellatin (the glue I use). This prevents the glue cracking, and dries more quickly. Should be ready to go in about two weeks. 

I also got an elm bow heated into the R/D shape. It needs a backing and tips, and then I can tiller it.

NOt shown is a white oak semi-ELB that I'm putting overlays on for use with FF strings. Should be shooting again tomarrow, we'll see how it turns out. Again, I'll have pictures for you. 

Hope you enjoy.


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## kegan

Well, I got the FF string on the white oak bow... WOWWWWW! Quiet, quick, and less hand shock- it's a new bow! Here's a picture of the bow, it's handle, and it's overlays (these are the nicest tips I've done- but I messed up the stain, so I'll have to fix it again). Right now it shoots almost any of the spined arrows we have, and being as accurate as it is, it will be a hunting bow this fall. I'll need to fix a handle wrap of sorts onto it, fix the stain, and put on a finish. I like it though!


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## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan, that is awesome!! I love it! Looks like a real good shooter


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## tpoof

Looking real good Kegan!
The shape of that recurve sure is nice.. like a duoflex.. its going to be sweet for sure!
The braced look of that White Oak is spot on... smooth!
beautiful looking flatbow!:thumbs_up
Nice job also on those tips... the overlays are very nice! Like Manny's :wink:

on the curve.. are you putting more sinew on? I put three layers on mine and find it worked very well.... it only got faster :shade:


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## kegan

Thanks guys! My brother took a video over my shoulder of me shooting the white oak. It shoots straight into the target

The recurve straightenned out, as you can see in the sinewing. SHould be fast and smooth, but more stable this way (and tip alignment always gives me fits!) Hopefully even being short I'll be able to finalyl give those tree rats the toruble they deserve this fall:wink:

I relaly like these tips, best I've done. And as soon as I got done filing and sanding and looked at them, I said, "Manny!" hahahaha. I can see why he likes them. Look nice, and are easy to string/unstring.

I'm not planning on putting mroe sinew on it, but right now it looks like it wants some. One more line down the middle, boost the weight some and help recovery. I've still got some sinew too.

I'm not sure when, but the white oak bow should be finished up some time this week. Lots and lots of pictures when it's done!


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## kegan

Well, only a little work on bows tonight. I fixed the stain, and will see what I can do for a handle tonight. Tomarrow, if I can't think of anyhting to make it nicer, I'll put the first coat of finish on and by Friday or Saturday I should have a butt-load of photos!


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## kegan

Well, tonight I'll get eh first coat of spar urethane onto the bow. Three coats should do it, so it will be done and ready by Saturday. It shoots really well, not a looker or anything though.


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## kegan

Got the last coat of spar urethane on when I got home form school. SHould have pictures of the new bow tomarrow or Saturday. Hopefully I can get a new Sharpie to write the weight, draw, etc. on it. 

And I might get another course of sinew on the bow. If I do, I'll take some picutres of the bow all sinewed- up.


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## stiknstring

Why are you sinewing AFTER the finish coat?


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## kegan

stiknstring said:


> Why are you sinewing AFTER the finish coat?


Hahaha, whoops. I'm finishing up a white oak longbow, but I'm sinewing a short Osage bow. Too many bows at one time:zip:!


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## DrawAim"Click"

How long does it typically take you to make one bow?


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## kegan

DrawAim"Click" said:


> How long does it typically take you to make one bow?


Depends. I can crank a semi-English longbow out in a week or so from a dry stave. But this sinewed bow will take me a couple months at least. How well it looks, and how well it's tuned, however, can change the amount of time.

Most of the time is waiting for things to be dried.

Here's the Osage's bow's shape, and the sinew as it is now (undried). Just put it on this morning. Here's the handle of my white oak bow, I wrapped it with masonry twine and "painted" it with some walnut stain (the same as on the bow). I like the feel of the grip, probabaly as much as leather- but I didn't have alot of wood to work with to round it off, so it's not perfect. Here's the bow on the rack.


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## DrawAim"Click"

Very cool!!!


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## kegan

DrawAim"Click" said:


> Very cool!!!


Thanks. I'll have lots more picutres when the weather gets better.

I haven't gotten a name for this bow though. I usually come up with them while I'm working on the bow- but this one so far is nameless.


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## kegan

Well, the weather's too cold to get any good pictures of the white oak, and right now I'm redoing my treasured Osage longbow, so I don't have any pictures yet. I should have some soon enough though.

I am, however, sold on FF strings and narrow tips. This white oak longbow is by the the best shooting bow I've made. Fast, quiet, smooth, and accurate. This is my new go-to bow.


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## DrawAim"Click"

Awesome!!!


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## kegan

DrawAim"Click" said:


> Awesome!!!


Thanks. Tomarrow evening I'll get some pitcures of the changes I'm making to my Osage bow. I'm striaghtenning it and trying to get a string on it at the moment, but it's fighting with me.


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## tpoof

teaser pics


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## kegan

Here are some more teaser photos.

The first is my old longbow, in the re-works. The tiller looks really off in the picutre (like there's a hinge) but it isn't actually. Giving me trouble, but hopefully I'll be able to turn it into a real demon.

The second is it's handle, built up with leather with a leather shelf-locator, something I haven't tried before. Hopefully it will be a good thing, it feels like it will be

Here's the shape of the Osage/sinew shorty. It won't be completely dry until April, so I'm taking a break with it. Just have to set it aside and wait. 

Here's it's handle. I really like it, and the shelf-locator really helps on this handle. This bow will be pretty close to center-shot. If the performance is still on-par even at it's short length, this should be one of my best bows to date by far.

And the tips on my Osage longbow. I like them, even though they're pretty wide (for durability- the bow is very narrow and thick, they could twist out of alignment and snap off).

Oh, and I learned a new trick this morning. We had a two-hour delay o account of snow, so after doig some wing shooting we watched Ferguson's video. So afterwards I went out and tried the mirror shot. Which, after a little bit of trying, I got to work!


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## kegan

Well, did a little work on my FireStick. Straightenning and a little tillering. I'm hoping to have it at full draw by week's end. So finish by... next weekend?


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## kegan

Well, I'll try to tiller my Osage longbow out to full draw soon, as well as making up some arrows for my new white oak. The weather is rbeaking, so I might have pictures soon.


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## kegan

Well, I got some arrows made up for my white oak, but y Osage is being troublesome. I'm not going to push it for a while, but will start another longbow soon enough.


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## kegan

Well, with all the work on imporovng my shooting, I haven't had time to work on the Osage. My arrows are already beaten up pretty badly too. 

I have, however, started a new elm longbow. It coming along nicely, and I'll get some pictures of the work soon.


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## scovill

hey kegan long time no see. whats the easiest way to make some good looking broadheads for a first timer? i dont have tools for cutting heavy metal, and i dont like the idea of using glass. what other methods have you tried?


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## kegan

You don't need to cut heavy metal- saw steel or spring steel is best (and a small dremel with mesh cutting disk). Cutting triangles with notches for tying them to the shaft are the easiest. St them with epoxy.

I've also made some from bone that worked well. Not as tough, but easier to make. CHeck local reulations to make sure they're legal. Just cut them to shape with a handsaw and grind/file them to shape. Bone are my favorite primitive points.

I'm working on a number of bows, and soon I should have a butt load of pictures all at one time coming up. A few elm bows and a white oak for a charity thing, as well as a character bow and another elm R/D that I intend to sell. A sassafras ELB, lighter in wieght, not sure what it's going to be for. 

And of course I need to get photos of my white oak and I intend to finish the short little sinew backed Osage up really nice. I also want to make a hickory R/D for myself with a fancier grip, somehting with a little more meat to get a consistent grip on it.

I also got some Titebond III, so once I get some money I'll buy some Bamboo and do some laminates. I also got my R/D blocks done for my bow board, so I should have less trouble putting it into my bows.

If anyone wants some teaser pictures, jsut ask. I'd be happy to take some.


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## kegan

*Updates...*

The white oak I've been shootign has finally broken completely in, and uforunately has settled in as a soft, smooth, but slow bow. So my arrows are no longer matched to it. I still might take it hunting, as it's more easily accurate and plenty strong enough to shoot a deer, but I need to make up some new bows. 

Also, with the bow so very far from centershot I'm having trouble tuning arrows. 

Moral of the story, OVERBUILD a little .

I've also got a new handle design that should help my shooting I want to try, as well as finally figuring out how to properly R/D my bows. 

I intend to start a new hickory bow to all of these specifications and try to build a good, stable, reliable, fast hunting bow. 

I'll also be working on the short sinew backed Osage bow soon. It should be a very nice little hutning bow, and possibly see some action with turkeys this spring?

Soon as anything substantial is built I'll get some picutres.


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## kegan

It's been a while since I've posted anything, having a tough time recently with school and what not.

I'll soon be working on the little sinewed Osage though, so I should have lots of pictures as it's coming along.

I've also got a hickory longbow I'm finishing out. Needs to be tillered and shot in, so I will get some pictures when it starts flinging. I have some ideas about the finish on this bow that I'm looking forward to trying...

Once these are done I need to do a butt-load of arrows. Turkey season is coming up abd I've got some new Stos heads to try, as well as making some practice blunts and some Tarantula small game heads. I should have plenty of picutres soon enough (as well as of my white oak longbow).


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## kegan

*Tonight...*

I don't have alot of homework, so I'm going to go crazy on a couple bows. I'll start tillering up the sinew backed 'sage, straighten the hickory some more, work on a white oak flatbow I have sitting there staring me in the face, and get a little elm bow roughed out and ready for another archer. 

There WILL be pictures tomarrow.


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## kegan

Here are some pictures. The bow I did the most on last night, my old Firestick, is still in the shop glueing up. I'madding a handle and fixing it up. Hopefully it will go a little better this time- I straightenned the limbs out. I want a hunting bow, not a speed demon or perfect target bow. 

I also did a fair bit of tillering on the little Osage bow. It's going to come in light, but very snappy. Which is fine, hopefully. It's a bear though, and it will tkae me alot longer to tiller than I had initially thought. No big deal though

I didn't have alot of picutres of bows to take, so here's a small game arrow I made up (there are two others just like it). They're flu-flus, so I don't have to bother with spine (they're rated at over 100#) and tipped with Tarantulas, a home-prepped small game point. I really like them, but I want to put some on some normal arrows- these arrows are good, but I doubt that with bth flu-flus and the big point they'll hit too many squirrels.


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## kegan

Here are some more photos (last ones were pretty lame lol). Here is the hickory bow I'm working on, some new arrows, my little "fletch station" where I fletch arrows up long inot the night, and the new Stos heads that I will be slinging at big game. Hope you enjoy.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Thats all awesome!

Nice arrows! I can see that point sliding right through the ribs of a deer.


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## kegan

Thanks. I've got the whole batch fixed up and shooting beautifully that I'll get some pictures of them later. So far I've got three practice blunts, a flu flu blunt, three flu flu tarantulas (I fixed them up, trimmed the feathers, and now they shoot perfectly) and three Stos hunting heads.

I've got to drop weight on that longbow down to about 70# and retemper the belly to about 75#, but I'm veyr happy with it.

More stuff to come.


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## kegan

Here are some new arrows I made up. The ones with orange are Tarantulas. I tirmmed the feathers down and now they fly perfectly. The ones beside them are for practice and fly extremely well also, despite being overspined and a little noisey (no biggy). They work from any of my bows and I didn't even bother spining them- so I definately like 'em.

The red fletched ones are for hunting and broadhead practice. They fly a little better than the natural fletched practice arrows, and the first group I shot with the broadheads was about 7" at thirty yards. I'm quite confident that they'll work for hunting.

Hope you enjoy the pictures.


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## scovill

nice arrows! what kind of epoxy do you get to secure your arrowheads?


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## kegan

I used Ferr-L-Tite or whatever it's called. The little brown hot melt stick. The Tarantuals are jsut wedged on though, as I stuck a .38 casing in there for weight. Last time I used actual epoxy to hold a head on when the shaft broke I had to super heat the head and my father said I nearly ruined the temper. So I don't use two-ton anymore.


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## kegan

Here are some of the bows I'm working on. The first is the sinew backed Osage bow, tillered to about 21". It gave a nasty crack when I went for 23", so I unstrung it and set it aside to tiller alter. It will be veyr light, maybe only 50#, so I'll set it aside as a gift for another archer at a later date.

The next is the hickory longbow I have been working on. Came out a little light (60#) but is plenty strong, quick, and a very stable/accurate weapon. I've needed a lighter weapon to turn to for a while, so I'm pleased with punch how this one turned out. I just hope it doesn't drop anymore weightduring shooting in. Later I'll make it really pretty.

Last are the bows I'm working on. The bow on the left is the sinewed Osage, then "Warthog"- a hawthorn longbow, a R/D hickory that needs alot of straightenning, and a hornbeam longbow that I hope turns into a real brute of a hunting bow. Not shown is the hickory longbow, a sassafras ELB, and a white oak flatbow. The hornbeam and white oak both need more curing time though.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan those are all great looking bows! Warthog sould be a cool one:shade:


60 lbs and it came out light:mg:


----------



## kegan

Thanks! I've stepped it up in an effort to improve the overall quallity of my gear. 

Yeah, 60# is a light one. I was shooting for 70# but with the initial reflex I had in it it dropped- fast. Oh well, I'm glad how it turned have some more pictures of the tiller and it shooting before I get the finish on in a few days (I glued a limb patch on at a spot that, down the line, may have caused problems).

On a side note, I think I've finally settled on a style of bow for my own weapons for here on out. These straight longbows are not only easy to build, but are quick, stable, and reliable. I've been nailing arial targets and at anything else I shoot. So I'll be doing what I can to optimize their performance/looks.

SHould have jsut listenned to what Hill wrote in the first place.


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## kegan

I'll be doing a flatbow (for someone else) and a semi-ELb tongiht. I'll have pictures of the roughed out bows tomarrow.


----------



## kegan

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1054459262#post1054459262

ELB build along for anyone here who is interested and wasn't aware:thumbs_up


----------



## scovill

damn kegan your the man. great lookin bows, looks like you keep yourself real busy! 

do you know which page you made the saw blade steel arrowheads? 

i just finished cutting out and sharpening several of my own, i think they just need mounting. right now they look like solid triangles. im not sure what the next step is.

i recall seeing pictures of broadheads with little tangs coming out the bottom, do i need to do this? how?? thanks kegan!


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## turkey track

this is pretty cool i have always wanted to do this and i have all the machines and tools but dont know how ^_^ i always thought it would be cool to shoot a rabbit with a long bow im thinking about stringing my dads old recurve...


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## kegan

scovill- thanks! honestly, I couldn't tell you what page. I cut tow triangles out of a trianlge parallel to the outside edge to give an "inside" tang. An outside tang is just cut with the rest of the point. If you'd like, I might be able to get a picture of one of the trades lying about?

turkey track- building a bow's not that hard- but they sure are fun. I've seen sveral people who play and hunt small game with them while using the compounds for competition and big game. They really are alot of fun.


----------



## scovill

ah yes i think i remember seeing the picture of yours now, inside tang. 

generally how wide do you want the tang? wider, narower or same width as the arrow shaft? and about how deep should they go? 
any pictures, even after theyre mounted and wrapped would be most helpful, if youve got the time.


----------



## kegan

I think the best would be the same width as the shaft- but in order to get a deep enough mine wind up more narrow than the shaft, and an inch deep (so there's 1 1/2" of shaft glued on).

I can't right now, but I'll get some good photos for you tomarrow.


----------



## turkey track

exactly what i want to do ^_^ sometime mabe this summer ^_^


----------



## scovill

i found that picture, think it was page 23. 
i cut out the tangs like you did,except mine are really sloppy, they looked a whole lot nicer when they were just triangles! not pretty but hopefully most of the uglyness will be concealed after mounting.

i got me a stick of that ferr l tite you recommended. they say a candle or lighter flame causes problems so im going to try using my propane camping stove. 

do you know where i could find any online videos or good instructions with pictures of melting it and the mounting process?

all the instructions ive found are for melting it onto the outside of a shaft for use with a store bought broadhead. 

im not sure what the technique is to get it into the little slit on homemade arrows.


----------



## kegan

turkey track- always a good summer project!

Scovill- Ugliness seems to follow every first attemp:lol:. 

I use Ferr-L-Tite for store boughts, but epoxy is the standard for home made ones. However, I can't help you out there since I'm still trying to figure out if it's my glue or my tecnique- mine won't stay!


----------



## scovill

well that wasnt too bad.. i think they turned out alright. wrapping really ads the finishing touch. but they went kind of crooked on me, whats the best way to straighten them?
thanks again for the help kegan


----------



## kegan

Look great! I usually carry the wood up past the tang a little for extra "hold". Let me know how well tough they are- they certainly look deadly!

If the points aren't straight gentle heating and pushing against a bench work. If the shaft isn't, gentle heating and hand pressure.


----------



## turkey track

hey look who's on ^_^ nice pictures everyone continue im learning here ^_^


----------



## kegan

I'll be getting a few pictures up of the White Oak longbow I made, and a couple teaser pics of some other things I'm working on tonight.


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## turkey track

sweet i cant wait ; )


----------



## kegan

Here's the white oak bow. It's 70", 70# at 27". Shoots fast and accurately. I'll be using it as a go-to and then back when I get some stronger, better bows made. I really like it though.


----------



## kegan

And here's some other stuff. A R/D that I'm working on (it's 60# at 27" and bo speed demon, but shoots very accurately- despite almost 3" of string follow!)

And some bows drying in our black truck. The one closest with the fancy handle is actually for the bow swap here on AT. Amongst them is the hickory ELB I'm doing for the build along. A month or two in there with some really hot days and the bows should be about ready.


----------



## turkey track

wow great pictures you are shure makeing a load of stuff ^_^


----------



## kegan

Thanks! Most of them are still drying though, so it's pretty slow-going.

It _looks_ like I might be doing a baord bow or two. So look out for another board bow build along soon.


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## turkey track

btw you need to get a link hat (off of zelda the video game) and do that picture with you nealing and shooting that looks pretty sweet...


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## kegan

Hahaha. I think I'll pass. I've tried shooting with hats on, but I could never get the shot off right.

And I look enough like a dork.

Thanks though. I practice alot of out-of position shots for hunting. Should pay off.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan that white oak bow is amazing! All of the roghed out bows looks great too! 

I got an osage log. About 4 staves will come out of it. It might have some character but its still free osage.


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## turkey track

lol ok fine... but still that would be kinda funny ^_^ ohh and jingle shoes llol and hoyt you are way behind they all look ausome ; )


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## kegan

Thanks David! Yes, Osage is Osage!!!

Turkey track, this better?

I'm doing some work on arrows. I'll get some pictures when I get them going. I'm also aiming to get a few new longbows made up, but the wood is mostly green.


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## turkey track

lol haha thats funny ^_^ where is santa ? ohh and the raindeer you are shooting at ; ) nice 10 pt you know what im tlking about....


----------



## kegan

Thanks

I might be out getting groceries and lumber tonight, if not, I'll get some pictures for ya. Arrow, a bow I'm going to back, etc.


----------



## kegan

Got the boards. Have to do a couple little things first, then I'll start a couple build alongs. Keep ya posted (sorry about the lack of pictures at the moment, busy getting ready for mother's day and what not).


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## turkey track

yougetting your mom a bow ? lol ya idk even what my mom wants except to go hikeing so i said well we have spring gathering (ranch work) last weekend for turkey hunting and the bass fishing is great( they are in spawn) lol i also said i know a perfect place its abouot a 10 mile hike and then there is exelent trout fishing ohh man no body has been there for years...


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## kegan

Naw, my mom doesn't shoot. We just had to go shopping for her and get some stuff around the house ready. 

The board build along, at least the start, is up on the Build-along section of the Trad forum. Enjoy.

Sounds like you guys have a fun outting planned! Takes some pictures and post them up here.


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## turkey track

yeah yeah... she changed her mind lol ill still take pics ^_^


----------



## kegan

Good luck anyway

Here's a picture of the new fletching style I've fallen for, the Plains fletch.

6 1/2" long, 1/2" high. Shoots very well, even when the arrow isn't matched to the bow. I like it, and hope to do alot more soon.


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## turkey track

back hope your mothers day went well lol i built my own bow with a stick and shot at trout ^_^ i used fishing line lol it actualy did well at 5 yds hehe then it broke... ; )


----------



## kegan

My mother's day could have gone alot better... 

Glad yours went well though


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## turkey track

lol btw looked in my shop i have nothing to make a bow : ( lol


----------



## kegan

You can make a simple D bow in an hour or so from a good 1x2 of red oak. My brother's first successful bow was made that way. Costs... $7? 

I'll be doing some new arrows soon. Pictures when I get them done.

I'll also be working on a few other bows. Pictures to come.


----------



## turkey track

hmm might have to bribe dad to take me to home depot or some where ^_^ lol yeah post those arrows !


----------



## Knottygirl

nice bows kegan.
ever experimented with osage??


----------



## turkey track

yeah if you read back he is built one or is building... he is also building a white something that looks pretty sweet ^_^


----------



## kegan

Knottygirl said:


> nice bows kegan.
> ever experimented with osage??


Thank you

I've built two Osage bows, and have a third _slowlyyyyy_ coming along (needs more sinew) that will make it's way to some archer who likes lighter draw weight bows than I. The first was a heavy 76# ELB... it died during a reconstruction.

The second was a 65# bamboo backed Osage bow that my brother's shooting at the moment.

However, I think I might have to reconsider my entire bow building career as even with several dozen bows done before, the final products weren't as nice as your Knottygirl

Anyway. I spent most of today working on bows, but the highlet is getting some new arrows out and shooting. I'm getting sick, but still managed to nail the target several times out at 50 yards. Soon as I'm up to snuff I'll see how they really shoot. Also included is a new R/D. Little too narrow, but fingers crossed the R/D in the limbs lets me have at least 70#.


----------



## Knottygirl

kegan said:


> Thank you
> 
> I've built two Osage bows, and have a third _slowlyyyyy_ coming along (needs more sinew) that will make it's way to some archer who likes lighter draw weight bows than I. The first was a heavy 76# ELB... it died during a reconstruction.
> 
> The second was a 65# bamboo backed Osage bow that my brother's shooting at the moment.
> 
> However, I think I might have to reconsider my entire bow building career as even with several dozen bows done before, the final products weren't as nice as your Knottygirl
> 
> Anyway. I spent most of today working on bows, but the highlet is getting some new arrows out and shooting. I'm getting sick, but still managed to nail the target several times out at 50 yards. Soon as I'm up to snuff I'll see how they really shoot. Also included is a new R/D. Little too narrow, but fingers crossed the R/D in the limbs lets me have at least 70#.



Everything is looking really good. Your bows look really nice. My favorite wood to work with is osage. It's pretty tough stuff. I'm really liking your arrows too. Hope they shoot well for you. Question though...Are those real turkey feathers?


----------



## kegan

Thank you Osage is tough stuff. I actually wear a little bit on a piece of leather, around my neck, for luck. 

Have you made any other bows other than Knottygirl?

Yeah, they are real feathers. Some are from a trade with a really nice guy in Carolina (can't recall which one) and the rest were found in the woods... all at once. A fox or somethng kill ed a young turkey, the rest was gone but the wings weren't far form our house completely intact. He or she got a full belly and I got some new arrows.

Animals are helpful little neighbors


----------



## Knottygirl

kegan said:


> Thank you Osage is tough stuff. I actually wear a little bit on a piece of leather, around my neck, for luck.
> 
> Have you made any other bows other than Knottygirl?
> 
> Yeah, they are real feathers. Some are from a trade with a really nice guy in Carolina (can't recall which one) and the rest were found in the woods... all at once. A fox or somethng kill ed a young turkey, the rest was gone but the wings weren't far form our house completely intact. He or she got a full belly and I got some new arrows.
> 
> Animals are helpful little neighbors


Yes, I've made a couple of other bows. My first one was built out of elm. I shot it for a while, got a small crack in it...and had to put it up. Come to find out, it got bored into by some wood worms.  Oh well, it looks pretty on the wall thats for sure!
My other bow, I did some work on...but my dad ended up finishing for me. It's backed with diamondback rattlesnakes skins...I hunt with it.

Good find on the turkey feathers!!
Maybe that osage around your neck did in fact bring you some luck! 
I'm a big turkey hunter, so I get real enthused about people who use authenic feathers in their primitive work.
nice job!


----------



## kegan

You hunt with your selfbows too? My word! You my dear, are simply astounding! Have any pictures of the snakeskin backed bow? The way I look at it, it can't be that crazy (in this case hunting with sticks) if a member of the fairer sex partakes in it as well:lol:. Sorry if I'm coming off as a bit goofy with all this- as you might have guessed I haven't exactly met any female archers who enjoy this branch of the sport

And thank you. Truth be told I'm more of an economist archer, using whatever is cheapest and most readily available, but with natural turkey and goose feathers... I don't know. They simply look better.

And make my butt-ugly bow look better too lol.

Anyway. I got the arrows flying, with several direct hits at 50, and a coule good shots at 60. Beyond that... I think I need a heavier bow. Funny thing is, these arrows are NOT matched to my bow, they are stiff and not very uniform, but they all fly true. Go figure. 

Here's a picture of what my brother was up to this afternoon while I went for a bike ride to loosen up: more arrows! The stained ones in front are his Port Orford cedars he's making up from new shafts. The arrows behind that are being footed, the ones with red fletchings are his older cedars and the white ones with natural feathers are my birch. We've begun to foot arrows with the mill ends of my birch dowels to get mroe use out of arrows. One of mine is actually being footed for the second time now lol.


----------



## cody roiter

man I just spent 3 hr last nite looking over the whole post.. all I have to say is WOW man.. U know what your doing.. I wish I knew as much as u do.. Keep up your great work...

Cody


----------



## kegan

Thanks man! I've made about every mistake known to archery. It's finally paying off:lol:.


----------



## Knottygirl

kegan said:


> You hunt with your selfbows too? My word! You my dear, are simply astounding! Have any pictures of the snakeskin backed bow? The way I look at it, it can't be that crazy (in this case hunting with sticks) if a member of the fairer sex partakes in it as well:lol:. Sorry if I'm coming off as a bit goofy with all this- as you might have guessed I haven't exactly met any female archers who enjoy this branch of the sport
> 
> And thank you. Truth be told I'm more of an economist archer, using whatever is cheapest and most readily available, but with natural turkey and goose feathers... I don't know. They simply look better.
> 
> And make my butt-ugly bow look better too lol.
> 
> Anyway. I got the arrows flying, with several direct hits at 50, and a coule good shots at 60. Beyond that... I think I need a heavier bow. Funny thing is, these arrows are NOT matched to my bow, they are stiff and not very uniform, but they all fly true. Go figure.
> 
> Here's a picture of what my brother was up to this afternoon while I went for a bike ride to loosen up: more arrows! The stained ones in front are his Port Orford cedars he's making up from new shafts. The arrows behind that are being footed, the ones with red fletchings are his older cedars and the white ones with natural feathers are my birch. We've begun to foot arrows with the mill ends of my birch dowels to get mroe use out of arrows. One of mine is actually being footed for the second time now lol.



 yes, I'm one of those weird girls who always get dirty looks from the "normal" ones. haha...

Good job on your arrows. Sounds like they are hitting well...

Nice pic by the way! Everything is looking sweet!
All my arrows that I have made are out of cedar too....


And, since you requested, pics of the snakeskin bow:


----------



## cody roiter

Knottygirl, u could give me a run for my money... U make some Very nice bows....

Cody


----------



## Knottygirl

cody roiter said:


> Knottygirl, u could give me a run for my money... U make some Very nice bows....
> 
> Cody


Thanks! appreciate that!


----------



## turkey track

kegan you have some major compitition i think kegans next bow he shuld make a purrty one ^_^ i have been wanting to start a project askegan knows but dont got no wood lol ^_^


----------



## turkey track

knotty,
great bows those are realy cool looking... is the snake skin for looks or for camo?


kegan,
you have some major compitition i think your next bow he shuld make a purrty one ^_^ 



i have been wanting to start a project as kegan knows but dont got no wood lol ^_^


----------



## Knottygirl

turkey track said:


> knotty,
> great bows those are realy cool looking... is the snake skin for looks or for camo?
> 
> 
> kegan,
> you have some major compitition i think your next bow he shuld make a purrty one ^_^
> 
> 
> 
> i have been wanting to start a project as kegan knows but dont got no wood lol ^_^




Both!


----------



## turkey track

oh cool im not a big fan of snakes i have been known to scram like a little girl and run down a mountian side... : ) ( snakes on a plane was not a good movie) lol


----------



## Knottygirl

turkey track said:


> oh cool im not a big fan of snakes i have been known to scram like a little girl and run down a mountian side... : ) ( snakes on a plane was not a good movie) lol


Belive me, I'm scared of them too...Thats why I like them dead, skinned, and on a bow.
Down here in Arkansas, we have tons of Copperheads. My dad backed one of his bows with it. It looks sweet!


----------



## kegan

Knottygirl said:


> yes, I'm one of those weird girls who always get dirty looks from the "normal" ones. haha...
> 
> Good job on your arrows. Sounds like they are hitting well...
> 
> Nice pic by the way! Everything is looking sweet!
> All my arrows that I have made are out of cedar too....
> 
> 
> And, since you requested, pics of the snakeskin bow:


What constitutes "normal"?

And thank you, on both accounts

I keep stealing the ends from my brother's cedars because of the smell. 

That's a beautiful bow. 

Can I ask how far out you can shoot your longbows?

Anyway- I'll have some more stuff up tonight. Those footed birch should be dry and I'll get them flying (it's about time for some wing shooting- I want to see if I can get some photos of that...).


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

KEgan I avent made a bow in a while. Hopefully I will get 2-3 done this summer. An osage flatbow, osage elb(like a real elb trying for a reproduction other than not having yew) an the elm stave you sent me.


----------



## kegan

Can't wait to see 'em David!

Here's my little arrow stash. For once i have arrows handy:lol:


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

Looks great! Isnt that a good feeling?


----------



## Knottygirl

kegan said:


> What constitutes "normal"?
> 
> And thank you, on both accounts
> 
> I keep stealing the ends from my brother's cedars because of the smell.
> 
> That's a beautiful bow.
> 
> Can I ask how far out you can shoot your longbows?
> 
> Anyway- I'll have some more stuff up tonight. Those footed birch should be dry and I'll get them flying (it's about time for some wing shooting- I want to see if I can get some photos of that...).


The farthest I've attempted is about 80 or so yards...


----------



## kegan

Sweet. Most of the people today seem to shy away from trying selfbows at longrange. I'm glad you don't!

How far out can you hold a group, if I may ask?


----------



## Knottygirl

I mainly only practice at like 20 yds...to practice for hunting shots. I only take real close ones....so I make fairly good groups around there. Give or take a few yards...


----------



## turkey track

good im glad you are with me knotty the only good snakes are dead ones... kegan, how many arrows do you have ? and do you carve your arrows or buy shafts and make them ??


----------



## SDC

turkey track said:


> good im glad you are with me knotty the only good snakes are dead ones... kegan, how many arrows do you have ? and do you carve your arrows or buy shafts and make them ??


Hey can anyone tell me what you need to do to snake skin to be able to use for backing?

Another noobie question I have:
I have a bow roughed out of a nice piece of ERC. I have contemplated backing it with hickory or osage (good supply of osage). Of all the reading that I have done I can't figure out if I need to follow one growth ring or not for the backed piece ???
Thanks for your help and great looking bows/arrows!


----------



## kegan

Knottygirl- If you can hold on target at 20 yards with a longbow then you're a pretty good shot, no matter what

turkey- I buy 3/8" birch dowels, taper and sand them a little, striaghten and then turn them into arrows like a store bought wooden shaft. I've ten of those Plains fletch, three Tarantulas, three matched blunts, three Stos broadheads, and one footed arrow with a .30-30 casing for a point. So a total of twwenty- not alot but makes me happy

SDC- To prep a skin jsut skin the snake, clean the meat off, and tack it up to dry. Once dry you need to take the scales off by getnyl running along the skin with steel wool with the scales. Someone who'se done it more can chime in to help you more though:lol:

As for the backing- use hickory. It doesn't have to be one ring like on a stave. Osage would, as it isn't as strong. Use hickory.


----------



## turkey track

another question ... i live in the desert and have no trees to cut dry and make a bow out of... is there any wood that you would recomend buying from lowes home depot or a hardwear store that i could make a bow out of ?


----------



## SDC

Thanks for the info Kegan!
It sure is nice not to have to figure these things out the hard way :tu:


----------



## kegan

SDC said:


> Thanks for the info Kegan!
> It sure is nice not to have to figure these things out the hard way :tu:


Haha, that's my job! Then after several horrible failures everyone can learn from me what NOT to do!


----------



## Knottygirl

SDC said:


> Hey can anyone tell me what you need to do to snake skin to be able to use for backing?
> 
> Another noobie question I have:
> I have a bow roughed out of a nice piece of ERC. I have contemplated backing it with hickory or osage (good supply of osage). Of all the reading that I have done I can't figure out if I need to follow one growth ring or not for the backed piece ???
> Thanks for your help and great looking bows/arrows!


1. Find a snake
2. Whack his head off
3. Skin'em
4. Tack the skin flat to a board 
5. Let dry
6. It's ready to back


----------



## SDC

*nice & simple*

I like it 

The reason I asked on the snake is because I saw about a 6' black rat snake the other day hit on the road. Looked like just his head was smashed. I thought his coloring would be perfect for a blind hunting bow.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

Skinning snakes is really easy. Cut up the belly and then cut the skin away from the flesh and once you have it off in one spot stick your finger underneath it and pull it off. You can do this all in just a few seconds.


----------



## kegan

Somone hit a four foot black snake in front of our property. But when I went to skin it, one day in the sun had baked the daylights out of the skin. Tore to pieces before it came off.

I think it's better when you get them yourself. Then you can also cook them up for dinner.


----------



## kegan

Here are two bows I'm working on. The first is a hickory straight bow. Very nice shooter, and I intended to send it to a friend. However, he has a much longer draw, and I'm afraid the bow would become of a routine than an overbuilt and would loose it's wonderful shooting qualities. So I'm making him a better one with a special piece of hornbeam, and maybe a back up of white oak.

The second is another hickory bow, my first shooting R/D. It's shorter than I normal make, the tiller could be better, and it has more than 2" of string follow, but shoots striaght and hard and is a good bow. What should be noted is that this bow was one of the most crooked staves of clean wood I've ever worked. Not snakes, but lots of twists and propellers. R/D in the limbs didn't help! Moy brother also likes to shoot this bow.

Both are 60# at 27" and backed with cotton. I'll showcase lots more pictures when they're doneSorry about the lack of a shirt, it's really hot out today.


----------



## kegan

*Update...*

I've been working like a loon after the past couple days, despite a terrible need for sleep and a painful headache.

Soon to come (pciture wise): 

Unfinished hawthorne, "Wart Hog"

hornbeam character for a friend, "The Beast"

...and hopefully one of three roughed out flatbows, for my own keep, pulling weihgt and shooting hard.

Also in the works is a small ELB for another friend, a red oak board for a bow swap, that Warbow that's drying, and about eight other bows in various stages of completion. And those two already pictured need finishes:lol:.

Busy busy busy...


----------



## cody roiter

I to love warbows or ELB there just about the same thing but here is a pic of this past weekend of a warbow in the high 130 pound range pulled back to 32in long....


----------



## kegan

Awesome stuff Cody! How long is it?

And a little recap of what I've learned lately...

Straightbows are good, R/D bows are jerks. They're hard to taper, hard o tiller, and when you're shooting for weight, hard to get there!

After the one I already showed, you probably won't see me doing alot of R/D bows for a while. I want something RELIABLE first.


----------



## kegan

Quick update:

I have a red oak baord bow fro someone I need to finish soon, a couple bows that need actual finish, and a few flatbows roughed out and ready for me to make into my own personal arsenal. Pictures as they come.


----------



## cody roiter

I hope u have pics comeing soon... LOL.. I will have to post pics of the one I am working on..............................................................


----------



## kegan

I got paint today, so I should have some finished bows done within a few days. I'm also hoping the weather stops being wet and turns hot so some of these bows toast. 

Can't wait to see your photos man


----------



## turkey track

kegan found a piece of orange ossage !!!!!!!


----------



## kegan

Excellent! Cut it, split it, and seal those ends!

I've been pretty busy lately, but here are picutres of a bow I'm sending to a buddy of mine in Florida. For the time I'm refering to it as the "Banana Bow" because... well it looks like a giant banana! It's one of my best bows yet, and shoots a 11+ gpp arrow pretty well out to 40 and 50 yards (and is dead accurate). Hope he likes it (he's going to finish and color it). It's 55-60# at 27", so about 65# or so at his 30" draw, 70" long, cotton backed hickory. Took almost no set. 

It's sold me on wide, thin limbd flatbows with heavily tempered bellies, straight limbs, and heavy arrows.


----------



## turkey track

its a board already :/


----------



## kegan

turkey track said:


> its a board already :/


Not a problem. Acutally, if it's dry then you're in luck. Get a hickory or bamboo strip to back it, or even rawhide (Osage boards need backings). I made a bow from an Osage board, it was a fine bow.


----------



## kegan

Here are some new pictures. With school out, I've put off some of my other responsibilities and have been working on gear for this fall like a madman. 

Here's the Sinew and Osage bow. I put some more sinew on it the other morning, so it should be ready (and not crack during tillering) come the beginning of July (about the time I need to buy my hunting license).

The other is my first succesful ferruled broadhead. It's made from a field point, piece of bandsaw blade, and a brad-rivet. It's held with the pin and JB Weld. It survived the tree test and I'll be making more for hunting this fall, I just need some field points. Weighs 150 gr and flies beautifully. 2" long, 1" wide.

I have a few other bows that are nearing shooting. When I have something slinging arrows I'll get some pictures.


----------



## No.1 Hoyt

Kegan that bow is beautiful!! Thats one of my favorite bows youve made.
That ferruled is awesome.


----------



## SDC

*Nice looking*

Bow Sir! 
And cool idea for a broadhead.

Hey I was in Lowes the other night and noticed Boo flooring, after further inspection I notice transitions that were 2" wide and a little over 1/4" thick. Is there any reason one of those couldn't be used for backing?


----------



## kegan

SDC said:


> Bow Sir!
> And cool idea for a broadhead.
> 
> Hey I was in Lowes the other night and noticed Boo flooring, after further inspection I notice transitions that were 2" wide and a little over 1/4" thick. Is there any reason one of those couldn't be used for backing?


Those don't have the same tensile strength that natural boo does because it no longer has the rind intact taking the brunt of the work. _However_, if you wanted to make an all boo laminate, you would jsut need one backing strip and could use that flooring as inner and belly lams.

Thanks David! That Osage is going to come in underwight (as far as what I shoot) so it might be what I send for the Christmas trade on PA next year- shhh, don't tell. And I really like these broadheads. Fly well, hold up well, and they're cheap.


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## No.1 Hoyt

UNderwieght or not it a beautiful bow, your person will love it. Your friends in florida will love that bow too. I think I might know who its going to.


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## kegan

I think it should actually hit 50# at 26-28". So it should be a nice bow. But I'm really liking sinew right now. I think I'll save all the rest I have and use all I get next year to make up a nice one for myself. Maybe 66" long with a semi-circular tiller, no sinew on the outter limbs, with a nice handle...

Ah, to dream

I'll have some pictures up Thursday of two new bows I'm shooting in right now. 63" hickory flatbow, 70# at 27", and a white oak that needs some more tuning, 65", about 72# at 27". I'm thinking I'll buy some epoxy and chop this white oak in half- make it a takedown:devil:!

Habve a couple new hickory flatbows and another white oak flatbow in the works too. I've gone a little flatbow crazy it seems.


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## trapshooter

That all sounds like a good plan. Flatbows have always been my favorite design. They just seem so much better for white woods.


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## trapshooter

whoops brothers account


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## kegan

Definately. Even though a whitewood ELB can be a good shooter, I've found they don't hold up for the long haul as well for a hunting bow. Though, I do have one hickory ELB that I intend to temper heavily that I'm making for Cody Roiter that should be a shooter, 100# or so at 30".

If the rain lets up I'll take a picture of the little flatbow. I took it stumping yesteday and I think I'm looking at an ambush hunting bow for next season.


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## kegan

I'll have some new bows and arrows up soon. I'm making a transition from shooting a scrunched 27" to a true 29" draw. So the white oak I'm using needs a little redoing and I need to make a couple more. I've also a couple I'm trying to sell on ebay to help pruchase my hunting license this year.


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## kegan

Got a shorty and a red oak board unde the build along section in the Traditional Forum.

I'm looking into getting some sinew if I can, which means I'll have pictures of a new bow being sinewed.. The Osage bow will be tillered shortly.


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## kegan

*Update*

I've been slowing down alot lately. Busy with school summer assignments, projects, and constanty being messed up by still-green staves. Right now, I have some sinew on the way, so I will be taking pictures of that for you all. I'll also have some pictures of what's been taking my attention these last couple days: a raft for the annual raft race a couple hours north of here. 

As soon as a bow starts shooting I'll be taking some photos of not only it, but my shooting. It's been a while since I've done some honest shooting, and I'll be doing some tricks and what not. 

I don't think I'll be working on arrows soon, but I do need to get some made.


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## No.1 Hoyt

I have slowed down alot too. Been out of town and busy wit work. Now I have drivers ed all of July. Hopefull I can at least get a board bow done.


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## kegan

Here are a couple pictures. The first is our raft, made from PVC pipe. We hope it will be very fast.

The next is a couple of my favorite D bows piked down to boost weight. Both are about 66" long, and I'm hoping 70#-75# at 29". 

I'm working on putting a tilelring tree set up on the back of my tillering stick, so I'll get these two bending again and I'll have pictures of that too.


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## No.1 Hoyt

Those bows are beautiful and that raft is sweet. Whats that laminate bow made from?

If you ideas for a tillering tree I'll take pics of mine.


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## kegan

Thanks. I got a pully rigged onto the back of my tillering stick, but I'm having some alignment problems I'll tweak later.

Thanks. Our previous rafts was an ugly conglommeration that would barly hold three people. This much better.

Well, the hickory ipe blew up on me. It pulled over 80# at 29" and while I was drawing it back the lamination just gave out and the bottom limb blew up.

The white oak (below) is holding fine. I wish I had some sinew, I would back it so it'd last a while. It's shooting hard and straight, 75# at 29" it's 66". 

I should be getting some sinew today, so I'll do that with the white oak flatbow I have.


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## kegan

Here are some more pictures. I recently tried to make a tie on point again, this time with heavy buffing and deeper notches, well- it works! Made from circular saw blade it's about an inch wide and 2 3/4" long. 175 gr. Shoots well and was rather easy to make. When I get mroe time I'll finish the other two blanks I have.

Next is the sinewing and the sinewed bow. It's 65", white oak. Was 77# at 27" so should be about 82# at 29" when all is said and done. I'm hoping it will be a good one. I did a thin course of sinew and used Knox Gelatin. I really like sinew backed bows, and now that 66" is rather strained at my new draw, and even a 68" bow could still benefit from sinew, I'll be making an effort to do more in the future (hopefully I can find a deer processro come season who will let me have the legs).


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## cody roiter

Kegan.. Great job man looking good..... I like the new Tie On head....

P.S man.. I will be sending you some sinew in the box with the archery magazines...Plus any thing eles I can fit into that box....

Cody


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## kegan

cody roiter said:


> Kegan.. Great job man looking good..... I like the new Tie On head....
> 
> P.S man.. I will be sending you some sinew in the box with the archery magazines...Plus any thing eles I can fit into that box....
> 
> Cody


Thanks. I like 'em too. They're pretty easy to make. A nice back up.

Cool stuff!!! Man, I'm am LOVING sinew right now. I have about six bows that I'd love to sinew, and every little bit goes a long way.


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## RunsUpRiver

Good stuff posted here!

Dean


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## BowBoy78

still workin on mine
with track and school in the way i dont have much time after school


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