# no luck paper tuning



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

General rule of tuning is if doing the logical doesn't work, try the illogical. In this case, raise the nock at least until the tear gets worse. 

How much high tear are you getting? If it's a half inch or less, don't worry about it, but check it at a couple of other distances. 

What arrow rest is on your bow?

I think that's a single cam bow, so timing is not an issue. However, cam orientation might be. Does Martin give you information on this?

Allen


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

The first thing I would do is check fletching clearance.


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## savagelh (May 6, 2011)

well it could be vane clearance. You could try moving the rest instead of the nock point and see if that makes a difference


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## rossing6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Couple things on "paper tuning" there are many parts to that, the two words don't say which method or how you are doing it. Properly done, center shot can be set using point blank paper tuning, meaning you are 4-5 feet from the paper and preferably with a bareshaft, but the reason to be so close is so if you are using a fletched arrow, the fletching will have as little corrective effect, leaving you with a tear that shows what the arrow is doing leaving the bow. Adjust the rest left right up down until the tip goes through the nock hole cleanly as your basic starting point...you cannot use an "arrow parallel with the riser shelf method" or measuring some stock manufacturers number away from the riser as you will have some torque twisting of the riser as you get to full draw, and you have to set the center shot to "you" not me or a predetermined number. Then you back up and as long as you are not having fletching clearance problems (which is what the above sounds like without more specific information) then as you back up you should get fletching corrected or steered clean tears all the way out. BARESHAFT paper tuning is another thing entirely and takes the vane correction out of the equation and helps you get your spine figured out closer and much faster than any other method, though this method is very easy to use, it is very misunderstood...What this entails is doing the upclose centershot, then using the unfletched shaft, back up to about 5 yds and shoot again, and usually moving the rest in small amounts but not far from the centershot may help get a better hole until you can get out to 10yds or so with no more than a 1" tear, preferably a bullet hole....generally you will get a pretty significant tear, say 8 inches or so, and what this means is you have to figure out whether the shaft is too stiff or too weak. The easiest way is to turn your bow down a couple turns on the limb bolts and if the tear gets better that means the arrow is stiffening up and it is too weak to be shot at the full poundage you were at, either shorten it, lighten the tip or go to a heavier spine...reverse, if turning the bow down makes it worse, then your arrow was too stiff to begin with, you can't lengthen a cut arrow but you can turn the bow up higher or add tip weight....of course you don't want to have to adjust your bow to fit the arrow, that is just a quick method to figure which way to go. Then you recheck point blank, get the best you can at 10 yds, and then shoot fletched arrows at point blank and 10 yds and you should still get a clean hole similar to the bareshaft as you have fletching which should be just steering at this point not correcting for bad launch charachteristics. Once you have done this, then go outside, sight in the L-R at point blank and French tune, and if you were close bareshaft, you may have to make a slight left or right rest adjust to get your point blank and long distance say 60 yds or more if you can shoot that consistently, hitting in the center, then sight in your pins for elevation and you should be very close...this method will get you very very close to make broadheads shoot well, as long as you use ones that don't extend much further than your target tip length, or change the balance point, as a longer ferrule adds length and changes the bareshaft tune of the spine you spent all that time on...I can help you more if you need, but just understand what paper tuning is for, fletching cleans things up so you don't really see what is wrong at distances beyond 6-7 yds...that is where the bareshaft comes in, it shows you at any distance what the shaft is doing uncorrected. Fix that as close as you can before fletching...my bareshafts hit about 10" high at 100 yds but dead center and this is how I tune both my target bows and hunting bows, I do fiddle around for groups at long range, but rarely get something that doesn't shoot a bullet hole at 20 yds...be aware that you have to have some ridiculous consistent form to do this, so don't get caught up in that...Cheers, Ryan


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## rossing6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Just in case you don't know why this has to be just so, during launch the rear of the arrow accelerates just a little faster than the front, so if the shaft is too stiff it has to kick out left right up or down in order for this to happen, or if too weak, it over flexes and all kinds of bad little things go on, even worse when you put a broadhead out front that can steer too if you let it. You can watch videos on youtube or various sites, and the majority show fingershooters who by the very nature of the way the string rolls off the fingers causing sideways paradox, and the way the shaft has to be flexing to cycle around the riser is NOT how compounds with releases shoot. The paradox is more up and down, which is why we set the nock slightly higher than the rest, it initiates the paradox and helps hold the shaft on the rest during launch etc..but the arrows are much much stiffer and flex very little by comparison. This is where most people get confused, they see the finger shooters arrows and say it must be impossible for a shaft to get a bullet hole flexing like that...very wrong on our bows and arrow configurations. There are methods that take much longer to help find the spine, but properly done, you'll generally be in a similar tune, though learning how to "bareshaft tune for spine" is very precise and quick to do. But always start with a tuned or timed rest, point blank center shot, and go from there. Ryan


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

*ive seen a lot of dorpaways that will NOT shoot paper*

check the vain clearance first....use , white foot spray to be sure . then you must not move when you shoot...... you must be solid...if you move so goes the arrow...if it still tears bad, yes at 6 feet...get a real rest....:mg:


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## slickwillie (May 20, 2011)

I changed arrow rest and that made a huge difference. Still getting more tear than I would like to see with a bare shaft, but when I shot arrows with vanes on them, much, much better. Not sure why that is , but as long as vanes are ok, I,ll take it. Apparently I wasn,t getting good vane clearance on the hostage style rest. At 30 yards, I still have a slight tear to the right, but on a 1/2 inch or so. Not very bad when you consider how bad it was yesterday. Thanks for everyones help. Should I worry about a 1/2 inch at that distance or let it ride as long as I,m getting good groups?


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

There is no reason to shoot through paper at 30 yards... the fletching should take over after a short distance and you should be getting a bullet hole after 10 or 12 yards, even with an out of tune bow. If you're getting tears at 30 yards, I would think that you would have to be either shooting in a crosswind, using bent arrows or shooting through paper that isn't perpendicular to the arrows flight path.

Are you using straight, helical or offset fletching?


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Work on the shooter.......you'll have more fun.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

looks like everyone told him 4-5-6 feet ... he dont understand......30 yards is a waste of time:shade:, follow ross 6 advice its good.....


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## chocdog (Oct 11, 2009)

Paper tuning is only a snapshot at what ever distance you are from the paper. If you are confident about your arrow spine try french tuning/walk back method. These will truley help in setting up your bow.


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## My Dog's Slave (May 29, 2011)

I saw on a training video that if you are shooting a carbon shaft arrow and the hole is not as you want it, that the knock might need to be rotated. They said that 2 or 3 carbon arrows out of the box typically are splined wrong. Try rotating the knock 120 degrees, if that doesn't help, rotate it that last 120 degrees........ could be worth a try.


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