# Treating your shot like a process and a journey not an action -



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Very well said.
Most of the shooters I see in 3D, FITA, NFA etc, seem to just walk up and shoot...no check list.

though, the top finishers- all seem to do some check list.

Many years ago I was charged with a task of writing a user manual for some software I was testing...quite educational.

What I found was that we will always forget the steps we are comfortable with...yes, everyone WILL do this. As a test, write down the steps to drive a car...say, pull out of driveway- go to first stop sign. Then, go do the steps...you'll find you missed a lot. Things missed like, Oh, grab the keys, select the proper key to unlock it with- or alarm puck etc. press break to shift...all kinds of little things get missed.

If you don't do this for your shot sequence, you'll miss something simple but very important.

For example...for me the fist thing I do- on the line
1. Address target. for me, this is done before I do anything with the bow/stance..."you're going to die little yellow dot" sometimes this is out loud-- this gives me two things....a goal, and a bit of humor to relax me.
2. Stance- we all know about this...but is yours different at different distances? Mine is...part of what I do with step 1 is figure what's necessary for step 2.

bla bla bla
hook (recurve). If I don't make myself hook properly, I'll go with what "feels right" and jack up a shot. But, go by my check list- and I get nice flight- no plucking. 

in order to do this, my "check list" can't have just "hook"

6. Hook- verify proper weight distribution on fingers close to brace. Once at anchor- reverify- if not correct, let down- (possibly try to correct if it's only a little off)- this last part just takes experience to figure out what you can and can't do.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

dua lam pa said:


> process - a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end.
> 
> journey - an act of traveling from one place to another.
> 
> ...


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

"you're going to die little yellow dot"
:set1_rolf2: :set1_rolf2: :set1_rolf2: :set1_rolf2:


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

and the winner of todays inter web is ...



Praeger said:


>


umm , thats not my hand in the cookie jar ...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I always tripped on my check off list going the line, so I memorized it


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I missed my first x shooting 5-spot in almost a week and a half today after school, I shot for probably 30 minutes and was using three different firing engines just banging x's and enjoying the shooting. On the shot that I missed I came to anchor and moved my pin over to the spot I wanted to aim at and I knew something wasn't right the moment that I started my firing engine, I had just mentally pushed the abort button and the hinge fired. Why did I decide to let down, because the pin wasn't floating the same as the other few hundred shots I had taken in the last week or so. It was just weird but I have been so relaxed and dead on accurate that I had been starting my firing engine as soon as I settle in on the x and on this occasion enough of the engine had already ran and fired before I could let down.

You know I walked up there and I had only missed by a 1/16 of a inch but it felt like a mile, I really wasn't pizzed at the miss because I was confident in the shot all the way up to pushing the abort button and things just didn't work out. This is a different kind of miss than a miss where you know you should let down but you go ahead and hope or pray and just force the shot to happen.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

The story I just told above should raise some questions, such as using three different firing engines. My shot routine from start to finish has pre draw stuff and hook up to the d loop stuff and draw the bow stuff and engine stuff and aiming stuff and form stuff. All of these things have been done so many thousands of times that anytime I have something weird happen or leave any one of the steps out I push the abort button instantly, When something happens early in the shot sequence before drawing or during the draw or coming to anchor it is really easy to just abort. The abort that is scary is the one where I have started my firing engine and the engine is running smoothly and something in my float happens or my eyes blur, this is where my misses are coming from. The easy abort is when you come to anchor and start the engine and 4 seconds later I can tell that my engine isn't running and it is just stalled out, I just abort and let down but when the engine is running it fires anytime from 2 seconds to 5 seconds into the engine and that is a tough one.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

The consistency isn't there when shot timing isn't consistent- be it alignment, tension, or a combination. If shots on target differ in timing than those on a blank bale the shooter is being more careful because there is now a point value per arrow instead of a quality value. 

You don't have to do it right, you just need to do it the same every time


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

N7709K said:


> The consistency isn't there when shot timing isn't consistent- be it alignment, tension, or a combination. If shots on target differ in timing than those on a blank bale the shooter is being more careful because there is now a point value per arrow instead of a quality value.
> 
> You don't have to do it right, you just need to do it the same every time


While we are on a tangent , hip placement is a massive factor in timing - my opinion


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

dua lam pa said:


> While we are on a tangent , hip placement is a massive factor in timing - my opinion


"...allow instinct to take control..."

wise words.
profound
really deep...seriously.

instinct
no active thinking about the journey 
no active thinking about the process

it just all flows
the movements blend into each other

there is not THINKING about shot timing,
there is no active thinking about what's my speed, what is my cadence, am I in rhythm, am I out of rhythm, where is my alignment, what is my tension, what is my combo

when the training is near mastery level
then, instinct takes over
the movements just take care of themselves

precision
like a machine
like a zombie robot
the precision is a side effect from the training, massive quantities of training, focused training, systematic training, methodical training

the cadence is not something you control
the cadence develops, evolves, matures by itself, after the countless amounts of endless training, focused, systematic, methodical

when your training becomes a new nervous system response

think autonomous nervous system 

then,
you can do what dua lam pa is talking about,
the journey just flows
the instinct takes over,
the shot happens.

there is no try.
there is only DO.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

dua lam pa said:


> While we are on a tangent , hip placement is a massive factor in timing - my opinion


Agreed.
HUGE factor.


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

"...allow instinct to take control..."


Im gonna get out on a limb here , its not instinct you speak of , it a trust of learned and ingrained motor skills 
We are born with " instinct " - fight or flight 
we are not born with X or no X , nor the dexterity and exact skill to shoot a bow 
we train to obtain X , technically its not an instinct if we need train - hone skills 
If we are trained and / or coached well X can become "instinctive" in our reactions , 

You can not pick up a bow , espically a compound bow and "instinctivly " shoot Xs - 

Archery is a learned skill , 
preforming archery is yet another skill - 
preforming archery under extreme pressure is yet another skill 

archery is a lifestyle and an art - 
winning is a preformance -


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

dua lam pa said:


> "...allow instinct to take control..."
> 
> 
> Im gonna get out on a limb here , its not instinct you speak of , it a trust of learned and ingrained motor skills
> ...


wise words.

Training
Objective
Focus

You build a finely honed familiarity
with a particular series of movements, and postures
to execute a perfect shot ONCE....with ONE arrow in your quiver,
one of my trademark exercises.

Then, you hang up your bow, and pull out your ONE arrow,
and then, you do it again...from the same shooting line.

You train long. Multiple repetitions. Thousands of repetitions over time,
you train so long, you no longer count, you just put another hash mark in your training notebook.
The training becomes endless, becomes routine, like BREATHING. You don't ask WHEN will you stop breathing.
You don't ask how much LONGER do I have to keep breathing. You just do it. No beginning. No end. Just do it.

So,
physical training ALONE is incomplete.

For the ADVANCED levels,
since this is the Intermediate and ADVANCED forum...

at the ADVANCED levels,
we also train UNDER EXTREME PRESSURE.

So,
one of my more advanced students...

I said,
dial in your sight, to execute ONE PERFECT SHOT.

He did.

Then, I said can you do it TWICE?
He said, sure, no problem.

Ok. Do it again.
He said, sure, no problem.

Fine. Again.
oh-ooooooo.

And again.
oh-oooooo.

And again. Keep going until you miss. This is a multi-day exercise for you,
because I have faith. Continue until YOU MISS. There is NO limit on the number of days.
There is NO limit, on how many times you let down.

This is a PHYSICAL exercise to TEST your ability to execute.
THIS is a MENTAL STRESS exercise, to see how you do, as the PRESSURE builds, as your SHOT count, for CONSECUTIVE PERFECT shots...GROWS.
This is a MENTAL TEST, to see how ACUTELY you are tuned, to when you should let down, when the SHOT SETUP is also NOT PERFECT.

So,
is this Brain-washing?

So,
is this positive mental imagery?

So,
is this building a new nervous system reflex, almost at the autonomous nervous system level?

So,
is this subliminal programming?

So,
is this mind-numbingly boring, for the most advanced shooters, so I can train their Type A brains, to SHUT DOWN....hopefully, permanently?

So,
is this a GLIMPSE into my Zombie Robot Mind Training program?

hehehehehehehehehehehe

*Photo of my student's homework, after he hit the 48 PERFECT shots in a row, level.*



*Photo of my student's homework, after he hit the 106 PERFECT shots in a row, level.*



*Photo of my student's homework, after he hit the 143 PERFECT shots in a row, level.*




This type of training
is at the END of LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of other training technique,
where I have HONED the shooter's technique,
where I have REFINED the student's understand of how a bow works,
where we have already completed the HARD work of taking the bow OUT OF SPEC...on purpose, to get the bow as FORGIVING as possible.

This is mostly a MENTAL exercise,
to make the STRESS
to condition the shooter to STRESS
to make the shooter into a MACHINE, a mindless robot, oblivious, IMMUNE to stress, unaware of his surroundings, unaware of his distractions,
to QUIET the VOICES in his head, to IGNORE the voices in his head.

ONE shot.
ONE dead X-ring.

See the x-ring.
Kill the X.
See the x-ring.
Kill the X.
Endless.
No beginning.
No end.

The shot count no longer matters.
Score no longer matters.
Stress no longer has a hold on the student's mind.
There is only the X.
One Dead X.
Wash---Rinse---Repeat.

Training.
Massive Training...
with a focus
with a purpose
IN ORDER...the training builds on a FOUNDATION.

You MUST crawl, then stand, then walk, then run, then.....

a sequence.
A custom sequence, developed for EACH shooter,
appropriate for each shooter's current skill level,
to guide, to refine, to develop, to evolve....

so the shooter reaches whatever goal they wish to reach.

At this level,
I only have a few students.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

So, if you introduce this exercise TOO EARLY,
before the development work is complete,
you will have a negative effect...

you will tear down the confidence of the student,
instead of massively building up the confidence of the student.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

great info


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

nuts&bolts said:


> wise words.
> 
> Training
> Objective
> ...


Think I saw those targets before. Weren't shot close up, 10 yards or so? Regardless, the targets and that many shots gives to the student having desire......


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Depends on the plane of motion you are referring too- you can cut the hip out of the equation and shoot the exact same scores and group size... If the upper body and shoulder alignment is correct hip position becomes less critical. Stance matters and how open/closed and the angle of attack the chest has towards the target changes shot timing much more.


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

N7709K said:


> Depends on the plane of motion you are referring too- you can cut the hip out of the equation and shoot the exact same scores and group size... If the upper body and shoulder alignment is correct hip position becomes less critical. Stance matters and how open/closed and the angle of attack the chest has towards the target changes shot timing much more.


same page -


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