# Speed loss and draw weight



## san saba hunter (Jan 2, 2003)

Hello everyone,

How much speed will I loose if I lower my draw weight 5 lbs? 10 lbs? Not sure if there is a formula for this.


Thanks


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

You will loose about 2-2.5 lbs every lb you drop. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

2 fps / 1 # of Draw Weight
10 fps / 1" of Draw Length
1 fps / 3 grains of arrow weight
1 fps / 3 grains of weight on the string


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## eaglecaps (Nov 4, 2009)

But since you'll need to shoot a lighter spined arrow which will also be lighter you may not lose much at all. Your bow will also be a little quieter which negates any speed loss. Put an arrow through the chrono before you back down and then after using a proper arrow for that draw weight. The results may surprise you.


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## san saba hunter (Jan 2, 2003)

ttt


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

san saba hunter said:


> ttt


ttt ? There is no formula. It's a over time bow test thing. So you'd lose 10 and 20 fps respectively.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

I agree with Sonny. ++

May I add?

MAKE SURE THE BOW IS PROPERLY TUNED!!

One thing that's seldom discussed here is that an out of tune bow, while giving great chronograph speeds at 4 feet, will throw the arrow off so much that the bad flight will slow the speed DRAMATICALLY at distance.

Also:
If you are using a standard fixed blade broadhead you should limit your speed to 270 fps. 
The large Fix blades at higher speeds seem to "Fly" because the blades themselves act as feathers. 

Generally speaking, if you shoot past 270 fps, don't waste your time with cutting heads larger than 1 3/16-inch and have blades longer than about 3/4-inch. 
For higher speed you might try you use small "Compact" style fixed blades. Interloc 100 or Rocky Mountain Ti-100, G-5 Striker, Muzzy 4 blade or Slick Trick 1-inch compacts fixed blades. 

I shoot 265FPS


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

Threetoe
Don't know if I agree with the 270 FPM limit. I shot 286 FPM out of my old Vengeance and am in the low 300's with my AXE 6. My tune in head is a Thunderhead which I shoot out to 60 yards in normal practice. I limit myself to 50 yards on deer. Either I am doing something wrong or that 270 FPM limit is not a real limit. However, my Thunder Heads are chissel cut heads, maybe that is the difference. I have went to Ram Cats this year but don't tune with them (too hard to get out of the target). I can't say they shoot any better than my Thunderheads, or at least I can't see it.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

Ches.
The Thunderhead fits into the category of "compact" being that they are 1 3/16".

Thanks for confirming my statement.


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

Threetoe
I never thought of the Thunderhead as a "compact", NAP must have been way ahead of their time. I have always considered "Compact" as those heads that are short in length and have a more aggressive angle to the blades. However, you could be right, 270 fps might be your limit.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

The new LARGE breed of broad heads go 1 1/2" to 2" or more. 
Hunters choose those for making huge holes but they are almost impossible to tune. In effect they have veins on front and back.

I'm shooting Muzzy MX-3's at 265 FPS. With my nicely tuned bow they hit exactly where the target points do.
Muzzy calls the MX-3 a "compact" but it's actual cutting diameter is 1 1/4" which is a bit large for a "compact" according to Joe Bell the author of "Technical Bowhunting." 

The reviews on the Muzzy web site for the MX-3 state that they group < 2" to the left of the field points. I suspect the bow they used was either out of tune or because they were shooting 300 fps. (I suspect too much speed)


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

treetoe
A muzzy MX3 is only 1 3/16" cutting dia. (according to the muzzy web site). That head is a short head that I too would call compact. I think compact is a referance to the length of the blade, not the dia. of cut. I have never shot the MX3, but it looks like a head that could be shot well over 300 FPS without a problem. Good luck with your shooting.

Ches.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

It was once said 260 fps was max speed for a fixed broadhead. Hoyt Shooter Jim Dougherty pretty much proved we could. 270 fps isn't unreal at all, not with today's advances. I believe TMan said he pushed the envelope to 300 fps. Right weight broadhead (regardless of length), right arrow, right fletch and, yes, I think it can be done. The fastest I've pushed a fixed bh is 270 fps and this a NAP 125 gr RazorCap. Accuracy is outstanding (target class) out to my max yardage of 40 yards. Arrow is a CX300 and using NAP 4" Quick Spins.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

I'm with you Sonny. I think 270 is a magical number.
I'm at 265 FPS, 331 grain GT, 54 pounds, 26" draw.

So many shooters think you need 300 fps to do the job when for DECADES hunters were Killing everything at 195-222 FPS.

Sharpness and shot placement.

And OOPS...the MX-3 is 1 1/4"...goofed. They fly straight out of my bow.

Hence...
TUNE THAT BOW!!

Shooting in the back yard today my 331 grain GoldTip XT Hunters with Muzzy MX-3's shot right to the EXACT same impact point as the Field Points.

I'm still tuning but I'm getting real close.

Bill


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

Well, then I must have done something right. My bow speed is just North of 300. I don't shoot a heavy arrow, but not a light one either (I don't think). Arrow weight is about 428-433. I shoot a 4 blazer fletching, 28.25" X-Weave 300's, 20 or 30 grains of gold tip combos added to the back of the insert (can't remember where I ended up, keept switching to find best performance then just set up my hunting bunch, think it was 20). Now, I only practice out to 60 yrds, so I am not a long range shooter, maybe at longer ranges things would fall apart. I was told my arrow spine was light for my set-up, but it works for me. I have shot 3 deer this year at 40 yrds, but that was with Ram Cat's, not my Thunderheads.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

I'm trying Slick Tricks


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## 2lunger (Nov 16, 2010)

If you have 4 fletch with helical you have more than enough on your arrow to control a large diameter head. IMO guys run into a problem with large bh's more because of too small or inefficient fletching. 2" fletching with a straight offset won't generally correct a fixed bh. That's where 3'', 4'' or even 5" is needed. Guys seem to forget that you need "x" amount of surface area and drag on the back of your arrow in relationship to the surface area of your bh. I learned this first hand trying to shoot 3-blade Muzzys with 4" straight vanes. Had 6'' of wind planing at 20 yds. Refletched to 3" feathers with a full helical and everything was fine.

Bottom line...if you match your fletch to your bh's you can shoot just about any bh at just about any speed. 

Just look and see what the xbow guys are doing with theirs. Them bolts are flying faster than our arrows and are still hitting where they are aiming.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

2lunger said:


> If you have 4 fletch with helical you have more than enough on your arrow to control a large diameter head. IMO guys run into a problem with large bh's more because of too small or inefficient fletching. 2" fletching with a straight offset won't generally correct a fixed bh. That's where 3'', 4'' or even 5" is needed. Guys seem to forget that you need "x" amount of surface area and drag on the back of your arrow in relationship to the surface area of your bh. I learned this first hand trying to shoot 3-blade Muzzys with 4" straight vanes. Had 6'' of wind planing at 20 yds. Refletched to 3" feathers with a full helical and everything was fine.
> 
> Bottom line...if you match your fletch to your bh's you can shoot just about any bh at just about any speed.
> 
> Just look and see what the xbow guys are doing with theirs. Them bolts are flying faster than our arrows and are still hitting where they are aiming.


They are bolts, not arrows so you can't equate apples to oranges.

I'm with you about helical.
I like 3% helical on my hunting arrows, The speed I lose is well worth the accuracy.

Tuning the bow is paramount.


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## 2lunger (Nov 16, 2010)

threetoe said:


> *They are bolts, not arrows so you can't equate apples to oranges.
> *
> I'm with you about helical.
> I like 3% helical on my hunting arrows, The speed I lose is well worth the accuracy.
> ...


Not quite apples to oranges. It is a shaft spined for the draw weight with fletching to stabilize it and a broadhead attatched to it. Sounds like an arrow to me. j/k. The point I was trying to make was more about speed and ability to stabilize a large diameter bh. I don't think the 270 fps limit holds water.

And I am also with you about tuning. The bow AND the arrow. Spin testing for alignment is a big part of my process also.

We are on the same page with everything else.

In fact, go to Magnus' website and watch the video of the guy shooting the bullhead. Notice that he has 3" 4 fletch with a radical helical to stabilize that huge bh. Granted, I have know idea how fast the bow is shooting, but he made sure his fletch was matched to the head.


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## adkins1969 (Oct 5, 2006)

i'm shooting a high country iron mace 63# 28" draw ----pse 200 arrows fletched in blazer vanes with 85 gr. thunderheads----total weight 325 grains-- shoots 309 fps. i group shoot to 60 yards to fine tune bow.(wouldnt shoot a deer that far) but just saying broadheads are shootable to 300 + fps.and never NOT had a complete pass thru on a whitetail..


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## bowguy12 (Aug 26, 2011)

Shoot a Rage and you will never have that problem! :wink:


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## Tweet46 (Sep 11, 2007)

bowguy12 said:


> Shoot a Rage and you will never have that problem! :wink:


Yeah, you get a whole 'nuther set of problems. :wink:


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## bowguy12 (Aug 26, 2011)

Tweet46 said:


> Yeah, you get a whole 'nuther set of problems. :wink:


The only problem I have with them is that I'm running out of room in my freezer because they keep killing deer.


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## Turkeycreek1610 (Feb 16, 2010)

Lol.... Wondered when thsi fight would start. I shoot 306 fps and shoot the red head gators. Did not pass through the doe I shot @ 67 yards this year but she only went 40 yards. Love them back straps.:set1_pot:


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