# White Feather Lark riser?



## st8arrow

I have seen them. Local shop owner is currently shooting one. He is taking one Elk hunting this year instead of his Daas. He really likes it.

It has a satin finish and the wood is very nice, I was very impressed.


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## Crunch

Sounds like a good one. Does it have a good mass with the micarta?


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## Stub

Looks like a 19" version of Southwest Archery Stingray.

I have the 17" Stingray and like it a lot. Nice grip and weight. Very quiet with a set of RC wood limbs.

If those come from the same manufactuer. Its my understanding they are made in China and managed by some of the guys from Samick.


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## Crunch

It does look the same. Thanks


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## st8arrow

The Micarta does give it a nice heft.....makes it feel more solid.

The stingray does look like the shorter version. I was told the 19" is made in China too.

Good looking riser and a great value.


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## Crunch

I think I'll order one to try.


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## mobertoky

Where can I find one of these to purchase?
Thanks, Mark


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## Crunch

Alt archery has them.


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## Crunch

Just curious. Are they cut past center?


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## mobertoky

I wonder how long it would take to get one to Ca. from Alt archery, anyone know?
Thanks


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## Crunch

Normally their service is great. I would expect about a week to 10 days. Unfortunately the riser is not in stock and would need to be special ordered, so add 1-2 weeks...


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## Valentino

Hi, anyone managed to get one of these WF Lark bows? I ordered mine and it will arrive in 5 days. 
Currently I try to find any manufacturing web/manual for setup references, unfortunately with no success. Does anyone have info about it? 
I wonder about recommended brace high? or we can just go with guideline from SouthWest 8"-8 3/4"?
Any help is more than welcome.


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## pipcount

I liked my southwest 17" version a lot, beautiful bow, but need bigger. Liked enough to buy two of the 19" white feather from Alternativess in UK (buy one for wife- prices are phenomenal.) Should arrive in two weeks, will set up and post my findings. I am a bit old, etc. so will be shooting light vs. younger fellows at ~20-25# AMO. Also have a weird long draw at ~32+ inches AMO. Uncut 1913 with nibs (31.5) almost fall off. I suspect it will also be too short- looking at a borders bow ILF riser now with 25". I have alloy risers, just like the wood look better- I am fairly sure it will not shoot better. Currently my BEST shooter is an old Bear "Victor Patriot" in 25# AMO/~30# at my draw- arrows just seem to go well downrange.


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## pipcount

BIG NEWS for Lark fans- BIGGER LARKS about to hit market - 21" and 23"

About a year back I worked through Alternative Services to the Distributor of the Lark, asked them to speak to manufacturer of Lark about larger versions. Additionally I found the manufacturer and requested they consider larger versions.
This week they went live on the Alternative Services pages in UK. The page is only semi updated, but if you choose quantity and SIZE you can get RH and LH 21" and 23" in "pre-order" status. I just submitted order for both, will soon own from 17" to 23" in same style. Long term I plan to do a draw force vs. draw length test and see how the different lengths change the force curve- especially out at 32.5", my personal draw length.

I own both the 17" Southwest Stingray and the 19" White Feather Larks, and am a huge fan of their design and shooting feel. For reference I also have other risers, and a bit of experience over last year mainly on shooting: Border Covert ILF 25" Bear Takedown: Mag- B and C // Wood- Viking and Kodiak "C" SF Archery: Forged @25" and Axiom at 21" Misc other risers, and about 8-10 one piece bows.

Yep, I need "Archers Anonymous"... and "Lathes Anonymous"... and "Backgammon Anonymous"... But having fun


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## pipcount

Once i get them, any archers in Houston to want to drop in and try are more than welcome.


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## grantmac

I just did an order from them, guess I'll be doing another shortly.


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## Jim Casto Jr

I can't make up mind; 21" or 23".


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## Hunter Dave

I have the 19" Lark, as does one of my buddies. Very nice riser that doesn't disappoint. Mine has been mistaken for risers that are 3-4 times the price.


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## biblethumpncop

23” is tempting!


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## pipcount

As Hunter Dave notes- these Lark are truly gorgeous risers, I think they are as pretty as anything I have seen in ILF rigs, at any price. The design is "just right" for my tastes.

I am getting two of the 21" versions for wife and daughter. Might take one and sand down the matte finish, fill pores carefully, put on a high gloss. I suspect with high gloss these would be really striking.


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## Valentino

21" or 23" hard decision to make? For sure will put my hands on one of these, probably 23" as my 31" DL will feel much better on longer bow.
Currently I have 19" Lark with WF#30 long limbs and it goes up to #40.5 at my DL. 
"23 Lark with set of W&W Winex2 #36 long limbs I have around will be amazing bow.


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## aluminated

What is the mass weight of the 19” riser? I can’t find that spec anywhere.

Is there anything to note regarding shipping times, import duties, et cetera?
Thank you.


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## Draven Olary

You can't find the weight. This is the info based on my set-up: 19" WFL and ExBF medium limbs:

Entire bow (riser, limbs and string) weights 1260g / 2.78 lbs and the riser itself 845g / 1.86 lbs.

For Canadians there is no import duties and shipping from Alt to me was inside 2 weeks for everything I bough from them, not just the riser.

There was a question if the riser is cut past center. Yes, it is, but not enough to think about drilling and adding a springy or anything else - around 1/8" past center. Once the side plate installed, mine is ~ 0.
Just another detail: the same limbs on 19" Satori are weighting #1.4 less @ 28" - bolts down on both.


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## grantmac

Draven,

Do you think a Hoyt Super Rest would work on there?


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## Draven Olary

I think it will work. I added a thin side plate made from a calf-hair finger tab face and I have some VAPs 500 for it. The tip of 30" CtC (30.3" POB) arrows is touching the string when looked along the arrow on the bow center line. A "normal" arrow will show different.


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## Draven Olary

PS BH for setup is 7 3/4” and the string is 1” longer than the one I had on Satori to get it tuned for same limbs. Satori runs AMO-3” this one AMO-4”. All this info is based on my findings, others can find something else.


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## pipcount

I use a Hoyt super rest (or clone) on my setup. 

My order for the new 21" and 23" versions is placed. Alt Serv. (nice folks) are not sure when they will receive from their suppliers. Will post pics side by side and some thoughts when I have the risers.


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## Michael Stein

I just put together a 3d comp. bow with this riser and long soul blackflash limbs. It gives me a sweet 35# 64" bow. Nice cheap solution. 
I use a hoyt hunter rest clone, where i trimmed the side plate and put some soft velcro on. Shoots sweet. 
I think i may give the 23 Inch riser a try when i comes out.


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## Michael Stein

Sorry. Double posted :-/


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## grantmac

I'll be curious to see how tall the sight window is on the 23". It's fairly short looking on the 19" which I like, so if they follow suit on the longer that's a bonus. I can shrink it further by bumping the rest height up a little too.


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## Draven Olary

Grantmac here is the image of the sight window. It is smaller than Satori's


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## grantmac

If I could get that window on the 23" I'd be super happy. Realistically I know it's going to be 2" or so longer.
I gap shoot shorter windows significantly better.


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## Draven Olary

Side by side, 19' WFL and 19' Satori just to have an idea of differences


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## aluminated

Well now... great info, DO, pc, and MS!
Thank you very much.

Your photos are great, DO. If it looks that good in person, it's a real winner.
It looks like SW Archery might have their own version - the Stingray 2.0?


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## Draven Olary

Mine came with a darker wood, some are lighter. Welcome.


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## 123 4/8 P&Y

I don't think the shelf is cut far enough for me.


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## Stub

aluminated said:


> Well now... great info, DO, pc, and MS!
> Thank you very much.
> 
> Your photos are great, DO. If it looks that good in person, it's a real winner.
> It looks like SW Archery might have their own version - the Stingray 2.0?


Just checked out the new 2.0 Stingray. I can see some changes off the bat. Changes like an open pocket design, no carbon overlays and a black accent stripe through the riser. They also offer a 19" version.

Here's a picture I found on their site.


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## aluminated

Not as similar as it first looks on a tiny phone screen. That's okay - I prefer the more closed pocket design anyway. It reminds me of spatted (= in fairings) aircraft landing gear. Classy and classic.
I wonder if I can get along well with the short sight window. I suppose if I can negotiate a Red Wing Hunter's window, this one shouldn't be too bad.


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## Stub

I wonder if they changed to a open pocket design on the 2.0 ver because some people had problems with certain limbs rubbing the sides?

I had that problem with my Stingray. I had to reroute the pockets a little to get my Tradtech limbs to fit. 

Personally speaking. I like the look of a more closed pocket also. Especially with ILF limbs. Be interested in seeing more pictures of this new version with limbs. So far there is only one side view picture that I can find.


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## Draven Olary

Regarding limbs and the "closed pockets" I had no problems to fit the limbs I tested (TT 2.0, Soul BlackFlash, ExBF, SF Velocity Pro, MK Vera and Border HEX 6.5). The Borders fit but they were making a small contact right at the beginning of the pocket and since they were #[email protected]" for the riser I decided to not use them on it. The new design of the 2.0 Stingray looks almost the same with Bearpaw Shadow riser.


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## pipcount

On the Stingray 1.0 and on my Lark I have used SF, TradTech, and Uukha limbs without any fit issues noted. 

The riser window on 17 and 19" versions is pretty small. I shoot light limbs, short distances for FUN with family, never more than 25yds, and I have had no issues with the window whatsoever.

I am a big fan of the riser design, very nice design, very nice feel/balance/grip, dead in hand, etc. I simply put the 17 and 19" versions aside as "too short" for my long, long draw combined with a need for very low draw weights. Very hopeful that the 23" riser will be a long term WINNER for me. 

That does bring up an interesting point: If anyone reading this is interested in buying a 17" or 19" version I will probably list some soon as the new ones come in. My plan is to stick with 1x19", 2x21", 1x23" in my family, drop one 17" and one 19".


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## Stub

Makes me wonder if I just got a one off riser. On mine I couldn't fit RC wood limbs, Samick BM carbon woods or Samick BM wood/glass limbs. I would get that slight rub on the side of the walls also. 

At the time I didn't think it was a big deaI. Since the rub was slight. However, It ended up delaminating my limb, by the forks and kind of exploded at the shot. 

I think I still have the picture on my phone. I'll post it if I can find it. Anyways, after I opened up the pockets a bit more, havent had an issue since.


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## Stub

Here's the picture. I circled the part of the pocket where I was getting contact and the delam of one of my limbs.

Also want to mention that SouthWest Archery was awesome with their customer service and took care of me with no questioned ask. Great group of guys there!


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## grantmac

I much prefer the looks of the closed pockets, hopefully they keep them.


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## Strung

Stub said:


> Here's the picture. I circled the part of the pocket where I was getting contact and the delam of one of my limbs.
> 
> Also want to mention that SouthWest Archery was awesome with their customer service and took care of me with no questioned ask. Great group of guys there!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 6813617


Was the limb sitting crooked in the pocket?

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## Stub

Strung said:


> Was the limb sitting crooked in the pocket?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Not that I remember. I just remember flinging arrows and the the limb giving out right at the shot. Didn't notice any odd noises, hand shock or anything out of the ordinary. Wasn't untill I inspected the damage I noticed what had happened.


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## pipcount

Brief status update- no confirmed date on shipment or delivery yet. Still in "pre-order" status. I am not impatient, ok with that, expected. Will update when items arrive.

I took my 19" out an shot a bit last weekend. Still feels way great to me, and looks outstanding.


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## grantmac

I pulled the trigger on a 23", now I wait.


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## pipcount

Feels a bit odd to buy without being able to see first... but the current models are so nice, willing to roll the dice.


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## Geechee

I know this is out in left field but do you think older Border Archery limbs will fit?


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## Jim Casto Jr

Any ILF limb should fit--including Border.


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## Draven Olary

I''ve said about this in my posts above. The Border Hex 6.5 H I have fit, but their geometry interfered with the "sides" of the limb pockets - at the beginning, at list for my riser. Since the Borders are #[email protected]" on 19" riser I decided to use the Borders on the Satori. Btw, I changed the bolt's cap just because I had some extra laying around.


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## Geechee

Thanks!


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## Geechee

How does the length of the riser affect draw weight?


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## Geechee

My limbs are 1 17/32 in. wide. The Border did not have pockets.


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## aluminated

The 21- and 23-inch versions are now stated by AltSS to be “due end July.”


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## RodgMahal

aluminated said:


> The 21- and 23-inch versions are now stated by AltSS to be “due end July.”


I just saw that! I sent an email to AlternativeSS and tey said they had tons of interest, and then the next day, boom end of july!


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## grantmac

That sucks, I have one on order and it said 1-2 weeks. Not 2 months.


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## Jim Casto Jr

Supply & demand--maybe? Should probably order one now to save on the price increase.


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## aluminated

Though I knew about the Southwest Archery “Stingray” 17-inch riser, I wasn’t aware that 3Rivers had their own version, the “Carbon-Z” in 15-inch.

 https://www.3riversarchery.com/car...MI28L3naGq4gIVBUCGCh2k_QHlEAQYAyABEgJkOPD_BwE

I’m not interested in that short of a bow, nor in the $360 new price tag, but others may be.


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## Blueox4

My 19” Lark and medium Soul Black Flash CF 32# limbs. This thread prompted me to buy this riser and after receiving it I’m super glad I did. So much so I preordered the 23” version due in July! Beautifully finished and I’m hoping it shoots as good as it looks. I’m new and have a couple questions I’m hoping someone can help me with.

I ordered a dozen VAP elite 600’s and plan on fletching them with 3” feathers to use with this setup This riser looks super friendly to shooting off the shelf which is how I plan to shoot it. Are those arrows OK to use? With the 19” riser the limbs should pull around 38#. I have never shot micro diameter arrows and did a bit of research but want to make sure they are safe for the riser and limbs?

I fit the limbs in the riser and they fit but seem it seems the riser came with the limb bolts all the way out. There were no instructions. Not sure how many turns I should or can tighten them down?

I have a recurve string on the way for this setup made of 8125 material. Am I good to go with that string material or do I need a Dacron string? 

Thanks for any help and it’s a beautiful riser!

View attachment 6833319
View attachment 6833323


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## Blueox4




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## pipcount

Carbon-Z ILF 15" Riser at three rivers archery looks like a Lark to me...


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## Jim Casto Jr

I just received an email from a fella that ordered a 19" riser and long limbs. He said he expected to have 64" bow, but it's much shorter than that. I'm perplexed. So... you guys that have a 19" riser, would you measure from the center of limb bolt to center of limb bolt and let me know how many inches you get? It should be 14".


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## Draven Olary

The problem were the limbs, not the riser. The limbs were mediums not longs as the new owner thought. The riser has 14" ctc bolts.


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## aluminated

I just had my first real shooting sessions with a new-to-me White Feather Lark (19” ILF riser) and Soul Black Flash limbs. 
I think I’m going to have to echo the words of an old blues standard (also recorded by Led Zeppelin) and tell my vintage hunting bows, “I can’t quit you baby, So I’m gonna put you down for awhile.”
Even with the cheapest (fiberglass/wood) Black Flash limbs, I am by far outshooting every other bow I own with it. I’m glad I got some better ones too. It’ll be interesting to see the differences, if any.
So far, so great. I seem to be keeping up with the Striker RK1 being shot alongside me. It’s a heckuva too-notch bow too.


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## TradJediKnight

I just ordered a 19" and a set of long limbs. Cant wait to get it all set up. What brace height is working for everyone? Im figuring ill start around 8".


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## Draven Olary

I tinkered more with it and 8" BH for mine.


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## biblethumpncop

I have a used set of Border Hex 6-S long limbs that I got which I will put on the 23” Lark once they are in stock.


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## aluminated

I enquired of AltSS regarding the eventual availability of the sold out Left-Hand version of the 19" model. It turns out that two examples surfaced somewhere in the system and that more are estimated to be in stock in early August. If you want the 19"LH before then, I suggest you jump on the last one because I nabbed the other. Lately I've really enjoyed shooting ambidextrously and this new riser should bring the enjoyment and success to a whole new level.

FWIW, I've been shooting off the shelf and using a BH of 7 & 3/4 inches with medium limbs. I don't like it much lower but haven't tried higher yet. I'll get it more dialed in when my real strings arrive.
@ TJK: 8" BH is not a bad place to start.


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## TradJediKnight

Thanks, I ordered a lefty 19 as well 


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## TradJediKnight

You got me paranoid of it selling out before my payment processed. Just logged in, packaged and waiting to ship!


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## aluminated

Notification goes something like this? “SHIP - Your order has now been processed ready for shipping. Sorry, no changes or additions are possible.”

Well, they aren’t listed as “out of stock” yet so perhaps there were more than the two that were mentioned to me? Either way, we are getting ours.


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## TradJediKnight

I got my tracking number late last night. Have some long limbs and a new D97 string waiting for it. Really excited to see if I feel a difference between short and long limbs on a 19” riser.


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## aluminated

TradJediKnight said:


> I got my tracking number late last night...


I didn’t. My order status says delivery is over a week away.


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## TradJediKnight

Sorry to hear that! I placed my order Saturday on impulse. Was on the site and saw they had some in stock. UPS says expected delivery is Thursday. Don’t know if I truly believe it. Stateside maybe, but not to me.


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## aluminated

TradJediKnight said:


> Sorry to hear that! I placed my order Saturday on impulse. Was on the site and saw they had some in stock. UPS says expected delivery is Thursday. Don’t know if I truly believe it. Stateside maybe, but not to me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My previous order with AltSS was placed on a Saturday evening. Confirmed payment on that Monday morning. In my hands on that Tuesday by 1:30 pm, just like they said it would be.


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## smokie999

You will not be disappointed with this riser it is a very solid piece of kit and eye candy too.I too have the left hand version with the White Feather Flight long limbs,the only length we can get here in the Uk.When strung my bow is exactly 60"overall


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## TradJediKnight

I like this riser very much!!! Anyone looking for a used Trident ?


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## aluminated

Very nice. I’m jealous because my lefty has not even shipped yet.
To console myself I mounted my Soul Carbon/Wood longs on my RH riser and hope to shoot them for the first time tonight.


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## TradJediKnight

Everyone in this thread was right... great riser! Very comfortable in the hand with good weight. Got it all set up this afternoon. Long #36 limbs, brace set at 8.25” right now. 










Loving it! If it wasn’t over 100 degrees right now I would be out shooting more.


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## Shandicap6

Nice looking bow. I had a chance to shoot one at the archery club and really like how it shoots.


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## smokie999

I have the white feather lark riser @19" paired with the white feather flight long limbs.The bow is described as being 64"but when strung it is in fact 60"overall .hope this helps.
Stunning looking bow and very well made ,I love mine


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## TradJediKnight

Odd... I used a 64” amo string for my galaxy long limbs with no issue. Definitely 64” over all.


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## ceratops

Regarding bow length, I assume some people are measuring along the limbs and riser (standard way of defining bow length), while others are measuring along the length of the taut bowstring. 4" difference sounds just about right. I think DravenO, earlier in this thread, observed AMO-4 for string length on his WFL setup.


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## aluminated

Another 19” lefty in the house. It finally arrived yesterday.


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## smokie999

Probably difference is in the limbs.My limbs are the white feather flight and tip to tip straight across the limbs when strung the bow does come in at 60"


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## BarneySlayer

Those look pretty darn nice!


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## grantmac

23" is now expected late July, feeling pretty upset about it being delayed again. Going on two months and these guys are apparently the only source.


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## aluminated

Posted May 17:


aluminated said:


> The 21- and 23-inch versions are now stated by AltSS to be “due end July.”





grantmac said:


> 23" is now expected late July, feeling pretty upset about it being delayed again. Going on two months and these guys are apparently the only source.


I don’t think the date has been pushed back “again” unless you count the initial “coming soon” type announcement.


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## smokie999

Now been using the bow for about a week and noticed on drawing the bow there is a clicking sound coming from the limb pocket .It is very off putting ,has anyone else had this annoying sound from their Lark ILF riser


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## m60gunner

I pre-ordered the 21” riser last night. Thinking it with my SF limbs will make a decent 3D rig. Being wood and shooting off the shelf I shouldn’t get those “glares” from the purists Trad guys


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## camargue

smokie999 said:


> Now been using the bow for about a week and noticed on drawing the bow there is a clicking sound coming from the limb pocket .It is very off putting ,has anyone else had this annoying sound from their Lark ILF riser


Can you make a video, maybe post it on youtube?


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## grantmac

aluminated said:


> Posted May 17:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t think the date has been pushed back “again” unless you count the initial “coming soon” type announcement.


It went from 5-10 days, to June, to July. Seems like a poorly thought out introduction to me. 3 months is custom bow wait time.


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## Draven Olary

smokie999 said:


> Now been using the bow for about a week and noticed on drawing the bow there is a clicking sound coming from the limb pocket .It is very off putting ,has anyone else had this annoying sound from their Lark ILF riser


No, but I check the lateral adjustment screws often. When noise happens, some screws are not tightened most of the time.


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## Draven Olary

grantmac said:


> It went from 5-10 days, to June, to July. Seems like a poorly thought out introduction to me. 3 months is custom bow wait time.



I wouldn't buy a 21" or 23" until they have them available, not when there is a note "end of July" from March.


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## grantmac

Draven Olary said:


> I wouldn't buy a 21" or 23" until they have them available, not when there is a note "end of July" from March.


I ordered it two days after they hit the website, at that time it wasn't listed as being anywhere near this late.


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## aluminated

grantmac said:


> I ordered it two days after they hit the website, at that time it wasn't listed as being anywhere near this late.


Per your own post from 5/9 there was at first no ETA given. As I posted above, by 5/17 the arrival time was lasted as end of July. I understand you didn’t like the extensive wait back then, but isn’t it really old news by now?

I’m just hoping all of you waiting for the longer versions will actually see them in stock at the time I originally saw posted by AltSS. Multiple delays of new products are common in many sports & hobbies.


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## pipcount

I use hoyt super rest. Have also used magnetic flippers, expressrest for beginners, shot off the shelf with fur, etc. Heck- I think you can use just about any rest on any bow, you just get different results depending on feathers/vanes, spine, etc. So many variables, so little time.

Super Rest is where I am landing now for everyday use at the target range. Cheap, simple, enough hook to make it a little forgiving for newbies but not enough to make it unpleasant for better shooters, etc. Buy in bulk and forget it.


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## smokie999

I have now traced this annoying sound to the riser bolt when the limb is drawn there is a click sound from the limb pocket and I am sure it is the limb catching slightly on the bolt .Tried grease to alleviate the problem but to no avail .Thinking of slightly filing the area of the limb that contacts the bolt but worried it may effect the lateral movement of the limb


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## Draven Olary

Use another pair of limbs from another manufacturer before starting to work your way with the file. It looks like your limbs are not sitting properly to begin with.


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## DrewCov

Please post results after you get one.
The 23" Riser could be the riser im looking for when i upgrade recurve.


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## TradJediKnight

Really loving the riser. Fits my hand perfectly.











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## Blackhunter

Yeah, many bows were made in China, and have good quality, really good. :thumbs_up


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## smokie999

Its only a minor niggle ,the riser its self is really well made and certainly eye candy.Tried other limbs and they where ok .So looks like a small touch with some emery paper inside the notch for the bolt


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## smokie999

smokie999 said:


> Its only a minor niggle ,the riser its self is really well made and certainly eye candy.Tried other limbs and they where ok .So looks like a small touch with some emery paper inside the notch for the bolt


now sorted the niggly noise .I used an old arrow shaft and wrapped emery cloth around it.I then sanded the very bottom of the limb slot .Carefully not touching the sides of the slot but just enough at the very bottom where the limb butts up .I ever so slightly under cut the slot .Now the noise has gone .My limb bolts where wound out to max so it was causing the limb to be at an angle to the bolt only slight but it was rubbing .If you are going to have your bolts tight down (max poundage) then I do not think you will have a problem


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## smokie999

TradJediKnight said:


> Odd... I used a 64” amo string for my galaxy long limbs with no issue. Definitely 64” over all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


strung or unstrung I did state mine came out at 60"strung to help people get some idea of the length of bow they would be carrying into the woods


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## aluminated

For those who haven’t checked yet, latest update on availability:


> Alternative Services Stock status: Sold out.
> RH 19in normally stocked.
> 21in and 23in due early August.
> LH 19in due September.


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## aluminated

And now all are "due mid August."


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## smokie999

Draven Olary said:


> I tinkered more with it and 8" BH for mine.


your riser looks very dark have you painted it


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## San Antonio FJ

Possibly dumb question, when ordering limbs it say $120ea it that for 1 pair of limbs or one limb?


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## aluminated

San Antonio FJ said:


> Possibly dumb question, when ordering limbs it say $120ea it that for 1 pair of limbs or one limb?


Limbs are sold in pairs. Prices are given for each pair.


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## San Antonio FJ

Awesome thanks, will probably be ordering LH riser and limbs when back instock


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## aluminated

San Antonio FJ said:


> Awesome thanks, will probably be ordering LH riser and limbs when back instock


I purchased Soul Black Flash limbs for my Larks:

34# Carbon-Wood in Long
34# Fiberglass-Wood in Medium
Of course, one needs to add about 6# to each since they are being used on a 19" riser and the draw weight rating is for a 25" riser.
I like them both but see very little difference in MY shooting.
For the money - now at $75.40 for a pair due to the clearance sale - I'd pick up the FW version.

If you were referring to the White Feather "Flight" limbs, be aware that they are rated on a 25" riser as well. A general rule is to add about a pound for every inch shorter than the rated riser length, and subtract about a pound for every inch longer than the rated riser length.


----------



## San Antonio FJ

I honestly don't know anything about recurves, I shoot a compound @ 60lbs and 27.5" draw (elite option 6- dont remember the let off probably 80%). I just got into archery last year and wanted a recurve to play with. I was thinking of ordering the Lark 21" LH riser and the white feather flight limbs in 35#. im about 5'7" tall if that makes any deference. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated


----------



## aluminated

The 35# limbs on that riser will be 35# + (25 -21)# or about 39# at 28”. Even with a compound background, that is a bit heavy to start out with.
With your current 60# bow you are holding about 12# with a release. With a 39# recurve at 27.5” you’ll be holding about 38# on your fingers.
There are many threads discussing how heavy of a draw one should start out with. Maybe look up some of those for various opinions.


----------



## smokie999

San Antonio FJ said:


> I honestly don't know anything about recurves, I shoot a compound @ 60lbs and 27.5" draw (elite option 6- dont remember the let off probably 80%). I just got into archery last year and wanted a recurve to play with. I was thinking of ordering the Lark 21" LH riser and the white feather flight limbs in 35#. im about 5'7" tall if that makes any deference. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated


Aluminated is correct about the draw weight of the white feather flight limbs .The marked limb weights are based on a riser being 25" long so for every inch shorter than 25"you increase the draw weight by 1lb ,hence on a 21"riser you will gain 4lb in draw weight.If I was you I would go with the 30lb limbs which would give you a 34lb draw at 28".I am 5' 6" and I bought the 35lb limbs to go on a 19" lark riser ,they actually draw 41lb if I had known previously about the draw increase I would have also bought the 30lb limbs giving me a 36lb draw at 28" .Also unless you are target shooting the 19" riser is plenty big enough, ideal size for field and 3D shooting and is more available than the 21"or 23".
From a fellow lefty


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## Draven Olary

smokie999 said:


> your riser looks very dark have you painted it



No. It is the way I received it


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## grantmac

smokie999 said:


> Aluminated is correct about the draw weight of the white feather flight limbs .The marked limb weights are based on a riser being 25" long so for every inch shorter than 25"you increase the draw weight by 1lb ,hence on a 21"riser you will gain 4lb in draw weight.If I was you I would go with the 30lb limbs which would give you a 34lb draw at 28".I am 5' 6" and I bought the 35lb limbs to go on a 19" lark riser ,they actually draw 41lb if I had known previously about the draw increase I would have also bought the 30lb limbs giving me a 36lb draw at 28" .Also unless you are target shooting the 19" riser is plenty big enough, ideal size for field and 3D shooting and is more available than the 21"or 23".
> From a fellow lefty


For Field and 3D the 23" would be adequate, but realistically people are shooting +25" and with much more physical mass than any of the white lark risers.

21" can be a crossover length if you need a shorter bow to hunt with and also shoot 3D but you will be giving up some accuracy. The 19" and under I'd only recommend if a person had a specific hunting need for a short bow.


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## San Antonio FJ

smokie999 said:


> Aluminated is correct about the draw weight of the white feather flight limbs .The marked limb weights are based on a riser being 25" long so for every inch shorter than 25"you increase the draw weight by 1lb ,hence on a 21"riser you will gain 4lb in draw weight.If I was you I would go with the 30lb limbs which would give you a 34lb draw at 28".I am 5' 6" and I bought the 35lb limbs to go on a 19" lark riser ,they actually draw 41lb if I had known previously about the draw increase I would have also bought the 30lb limbs giving me a 36lb draw at 28" .Also unless you are target shooting the 19" riser is plenty big enough, ideal size for field and 3D shooting and is more available than the 21"or 23".
> From a fellow lefty


Thanks for the info, I figured id get some solid answers here. I had wanted the 19" riser originally but looked like they were sold out. I guess maybe I should wait on them to get back instock and go with 30# limbs as well.


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## Valentino

UPDATE on "21 & "23

Major European distributor JVD just updated their stock of WF Lark to IN STOCK for "19, "21, "23 all RH it looks like our suffering is over and Alternatives will change their status soon. I have placed order for my "23 on May 17th
Another interesting thing is that they have on stock something named WF Lark Essential and it looks like SW Stingray 2.0 (pictures in attachment links below)















https://www.jvd-archery.com/product/white-feather-handle-lark-514483.html
https://www.jvd-archery.com/product/white-feather-handle-lark-essential-564937.html


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## Jim Casto Jr

Just received an email with the following from Alternative:



> Your Order: 1 x White Feather Lark ILF riser LH 23in
> We are pleased to inform you that your order has now been despatched...


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## grantmac

Same here.


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## aluminated

Jim Casto Jr said:


> Just received an email with the following from Alternative:





grantmac said:


> Same here.


I am glad the long delay is almost over for you gentlemen. I trust the wait will be worth it in the end.
I’ve been asked to order a 19” version for a third party. I hope they’re listed as “in stock” soon as I don’t want to keep him in anticipation too long.


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## Jim Casto Jr

There's a RH 19" riser on ebay right now. It's described as in "as new" condition and sells tomorrow. No bids so far and started at $125.00 with $10.00 shipping.


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## aluminated

Jim Casto Jr said:


> There's a RH 19" riser on ebay right now. It's described as in "as new" condition and sells tomorrow. No bids so far and started at $125.00 with $10.00 shipping.


Thanks. I am watching it, but the potential customer in question probably wants “100% new.”


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## aluminated

Since it went for a little less than new and some of the longer risers are shipping (as you are well aware) I did. It bother to bid.


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## ceratops

Interesting that altservices still shows it coming in for 'mid August' (not in stock) even though several people here have had their pre-orders shipped. I wonder if a price increase may be under consideration.


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## Jim Casto Jr

I thought that may be the case, so I went ahead and ordered a RH 23" riser too.


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## Stunchy

Just got an email that my 23” lefty pre-order has been despatched. 

It’ll be pretty sweet if this works out. I’ve been looking for a reasonably priced 23” wood riser for a while.


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## rcmckitt

Nice looking bow


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## 3 at 8

Interested what you guys who ordered the 23" one feel about it once you get it. Staus at ALT changed fro "pre order" to "SOLD" which I hope means that they are ordering more. Hoping to get one to use with long limbs for traditional off the self shooting.


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## pipcount

Yippee- placed order April 17, 2x21" and 1x23". Held up to get all together, shipped today! Will post results and pics, either this weekend or next.


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## Stunchy

3 at 8, I’m currently traveling. My Lark should be waiting for me when I get home on the 27th. I’ll be busy for a few days but hopefully can give you my observations in early September.


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## 3 at 8

Thanks Stunchy, looking forward to it.


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## aluminated

Well, the 19” risers in both RH and LH are in stock now.
Other RHs are “Sold”
Other LHs are “Special”


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## Jim Casto Jr

Just got an email from Alternative about my 23" right hand riser:



> We are pleased to inform you that your order has now been despatched...


----------



## Valentino

FINALLY IT HAS ARRIVED!!!!! 23" RH WF Lark (pictures in attachment) 





















First impressions, well it is large. All of you awaiting new Lark take attention on screws on my riser all were loose and I needed to tighten all of them.
I did some preliminary measurements and glad to inform you that it is cut past center and with striking plate it will be negative or close to 0.
Obviously geometry is similar to 19" and it brings more poundage than expected. On my DL of 30.2" (limbs W&W Winex2 long #36 on 25" riser) it provide #47.5.
Same limbs on 19" WF Lark goes to #51.4 so drop of the weight was as expected on 4" longer riser.
Grip on riser looks/feel slightly different, for better or worse I can't decide utility I string it up and shoot it. Same as on all of my recurves I set it up on 2mm positive tiller as I shoot split finger. BH I will start @8.5" and we will see where sweet spot is.

Good thing is that I have anticipated these numbers and have arrows ready but bad luck is that I will not hit the range to try it until weekend.

If anyone have chance to try it on the range share your comments, details...


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## pipcount

Jim- Awesome! 
Valentino- GREAT idea to take pics on the grid background, I am going to use my cutting pad maybe... not sure it will work as well, contrast might not be as good as yours. Man am I excited. I cannot recall if I kept my 17... but if I did I will have 17,19,21,23 for pics/compare.


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## grantmac

It doesn't look to have much deflex but it should balance well.

Can you weigh it?


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## Valentino

My scale is not precise but it looks like 1000-1050 grams



grantmac said:


> It doesn't look to have much deflex but it should balance well.
> 
> Can you weigh it?


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## anthrope

Looks great for the price. Now if they only made a 25” one 🙂


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## grantmac

Valentino said:


> My scale is not precise but it looks like 1000-1050 grams


If only it was +2kg, oh well I figured it would be fairly light.


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## Draven Olary

2kg or 5lbs+ it is a Black Bear warf with lead in lower pocket and 12oz Yost weight. I have no idea how a wood+micarta riser can be 2kg.


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## grantmac

Lazarev are +1.8kg
Dryad also up around 2kg.
Rossing can do heavy ones as well.

But dyed maple I knew would be on the light side. I'll find a way to add some mass.


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## biblethumpncop

The profile reminds me of a Bear C riser.


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## Valentino

I had one hour window today to string it up and play little bit. Started on BH 8 1/4" and find that it sound much better on 9" - 9 1/8". I did not have lot time so did adjustment by 1/4" just to find area where it start o sing.
I have used tab as I have much cleaner release with it. As always I set nock on 5/8" and it is high as expected but bare shafts on 20m hits just 8-10" lower than fletched ones. 
First impressions, it is much more smooth than 19" as on my 30.5" DL I did not notice any limbs staking. Looks that it has similar point reference like 19" as even first arrow hit target where I expected it to hit without any adjustment from my side.
Here are some pictures of setup and my group on last end today @20m


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## grantmac

It DOES look like a Bear TD, I like that!

Very interesting to hear it prefers a higher BH, it must have fairly relaxed limb pads. What position do you have the preload bolts in?


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## Ala_Archer

I accidentally placed 2 orders, so if anyone needs a 23” RH I’ll have one up for sale in a few days. It’s already shipped and on its way to me.

Ala Archer


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## NemesisXZ

Hi! I wanna buy a 23" RH WF Lark Riser. I only have found it in AlternativeSS but the 23" RH said that is sold. In which page of archery supply of USA can I find this riser to boy it? Ty.


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## Ala_Archer

NemesisXZ said:


> Hi! I wanna buy a 23" RH WF Lark Riser. I only have found it in AlternativeSS but the 23" RH said that is sold. In which page of archery supply of USA can I find this riser to boy it? Ty.


Go ahead and order it from Alternative. It says “sold” but they have them in stock.

Ala Archer


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## aluminated

The 21” and 23” LH models are the only versions listed as “Special.” All others are normal, in stock.


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## Jim Casto Jr

Well…. I finally received my 23” left-hand White Feather Lark riser. I must say, I’m quite pleasantly surprised by the fit and finish of it. I would say it’s certainly better than I expected.

Out of the box, there were two adjustment allen wrenches and it was packaged in a riser sleeve. The riser weighs 2.2#’s on my digital scale.

















I put a set 30# long Uukha Ex1 Evo2 limbs on it. On my 25” Hoyt Matrix riser, these limbs weigh 30.4#'s at 28" set at mid-range. On the 23" WFL riser they weigh 32.6#’s at 28" at mid-range. That's what I'd expect and was glad to see it as I have read reports of the WFL weighing a bit heavier than expected. 

As a perspective, I took a picture of it beside my 25” Hoyt Matrix and 21" Hoyt Satori risers.









The grip feels “pretty" good so far, but that's not an issue. If need be, there's always the drum sander, rasp and file.

I made a shelf bump and side plate, nocked an arrow and was disappointed to see the arrow sitting further outside the center line of the bow than I like. That shouldn’t present much of a problem as I can always use a bit weaker arrow if need be. If the riser suits me, I’ll drill it and add a stabilizer bushing in a day or two.

So far; so good.

Tracking says my RH 23” riser will be here within the week.


----------



## Stunchy

My 23” lefty also arrived. Haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet but I’ll fix that this weekend. I’m really hoping it works out. 

The lack of deflex is noticeable. I don’t want any more weight on my limbs, so I’ll probably be running them with the bolts out as far as I dare. I suspect it’s a good riser for longbow limbs.


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## grantmac

I'm pleased with the geometry since I can then run long limbs for a 68" bow which will match my BB setups for lemgth but without losing much performance.

I'm going to try a Super Rest and remove the tab if too far outside center.

I'm personally very pleased with how tight the window is. When I gap I enjoy having more reference points.


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## Stunchy

I like the looks. The finish isn’t perfect but it’s pretty darn good. I like the weight. I like the grip.

The limb bolts are not adjustable? I don’t like that...

First few shots were very quiet and it felt very nice. Smooth/solid/dead in the hand. I forgot how fast my Morrison Max 6 limbs are. 42# limbs and 34” 350 spine bare shafts with 125 grain points were coming out weak. 100 grain points were almost straight. Draw weight was a little more than I want and I didn’t want to change the nocking point on the string (bare shafts were also nock high) that I borrowed from another bow, so I only took about 20 total shots. I think I’ll find a way to really like this riser. 

I have a set of Max 5s that are a few pounds lighter, but I am really happy with how they are tuned to my 23” WNS Forged Elite riser right now. And somehow I lost my 2 extra 68” AMO strings. I probably packed them somewhere clever and safe when I went to ETAR. I think I’ll wait until I find or get another string and then try tuning my Max 5s to the Lark. Maybe I’ll think about a set of ILF longbow limbs?...


----------



## 3 at 8

grantmac said:


> I'm pleased with the geometry since I can then run long limbs for a 68" bow which will match my BB setups for lemgth but without losing much performance.
> 
> I'm going to try a Super Rest and remove the tab if too far outside center.
> 
> I'm personally very pleased with how tight the window is. When I gap I enjoy having more reference points.


Report back if you could on how the Super rest works out for you. I am very interested in one of these risers in 23" with long limbs; and that is how I planning to set it up initially.


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## aluminated

Stunchy said:


> ...The limb bolts are not adjustable? I don’t like that...


Not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean in and out?


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## Stunchy

I probably just don’t know what I’m doing. But I’m used to a limb bolt having a top, main bolt and a small set screw underneath from the other side. My Lark does not have a set screw and seems to be designed to have the top bolt screwed all the way in.


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

Stunchy said:


> .... seems to be designed to have the top bolt screwed all the way in.


A lot of wood ILF risers don't have the set screw to lock the limb bolt in place. Your riser is fully weight and tiller adjustable. Mine takes 13 full turns for the limb bolt to disengage from the riser. You should be able to adjust the bolt out as much as 5 full turns from tightened down and be okay--provided you don't foul the bushing in the dovetail slot.


----------



## Stunchy

Thanks Jim. I’ll try backing out the bolt a few turns tomorrow. 

But I am curious - without the set screw, what keeps the bolt from moving over time?


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## Jim Casto Jr

I've often wondered the same thing myself, but I've had several wood and Warfed risers without set screws and they've never moved. I still check the tiller now and again.


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## aluminated

I’m still not sure I understand the question. The locking set screw is accessed through the belly side of the riser. Loosen that, turn the limb bolt in or out and tighten the locking set screw to keep it where you set it.
Is there a different method with metal risers?


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

My riser doesn't have the locking set screws under the limb bolts. I assume Stunchy's doesn't either.


----------



## jhinaz

The risers that became WARFs (usually) didn't have limb bolts move when the riser had wheels and cables attached to it. 
If a riser doesn't have a locking screw you can put an 'index line' on the head of the limb bolt with a silver Sharpie or white Ink Pen and keep an eye on the mark to ensure that you catch it if it does happen to move. - John


----------



## Hunter Dave

The 19" risers had the set screws so perhaps the lack of them on the 23" risers is just an omission by the manufacturer. I'd suggest taking out one of your limb bolts and make a trip to your local ACE Hardware. Buy a handful of grub screws in the same thread as your limb bolt and you should be in business.

Those 23" risers don't seem to have much deflex, do they?


----------



## aluminated

Jim Casto Jr said:


> My riser doesn't have the locking set screws under the limb bolts. I assume Stunchy's doesn't either.


So there are no locking set screws accessed through the holes in the belly of the riser? FYI, the hex/Allen wrench needed for the locking set screws on 19” riser is a different size than the hex wrench for the limb bolts.
If the screws were not installed during assembly, that’s bad. If they cannot be installed at all, that’s very bad.


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## 3 at 8

I was going to order the 23" today. I'll hold off a day or two now to see what you guys think about the ommision of the locking screws. Were these rushed out the factory door due to demand ya think? Or; is there not supposed to be one on the 23" model?


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

3 at 8 said:


> I was going to order the 23" today. I'll hold off a day or two now to see what you guys think about the ommision of the locking screws. Were these rushed out the factory door due to demand ya think? Or; is there not supposed to be one on the 23" model?


No need to hold off. When I set the tiller I noticed they weren't there. Omission? Perhaps, but it's no big deal. If I feel the need for them, I'll just stop by the local hardware store and pick up a few. Probably cost less than $.50 cents each.



> Those 23" risers don't seem to have much deflex, do they?



Nope... and I like it--so far. Keeps the brace height lower for sure.


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## grantmac

Mine has the set screws to lock the limb bolts.

Finally got it in hand today. Very impressed by the quality. Strung up straight without adjustment.
Using a set if 32# longs and they feel like ~38# at full preload. Nice and quiet with heavy arrows, haven't tried lighter ones.
It's definitely not cut far past center which I'd prefer. Using a knock off Super Rest (because it was black!) I had to cut the little tab off and even then it was Demmer far outside centershot 

It'll need a lighter spine then I've got on there now for sure. Thinking 31" 500 and possibly in a .204 diameter. Or else perhaps less preload and some 30" 600s would be a good combo for 3D.

The grip is higher and wider than I use on my barebow risers. Pretty slick surface too so might get a wrap.

Overall I'm totally happy with the purchase.


----------



## grantmac

I wrote the above after a first look/string/shoot.

Now that I've really looked at it I'm convinced the front of the riser (the black part) is definitely not just stained maple. It's a synthetic material of some sort. There is a faint lattice pattern like you see in linen micarta.
For me this is a huge +1 on quality.

It also means that perhaps it's strong enough (along with the carbon layer) to be modified for more centershot and an upright window.

The lighter mass is definitely not what I'm used to (my barebow has more added weight then this riser) so my current draw technique which uses mass to open the bow isn't working terribly well. Otherwise it's a shooter.


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## Jim Casto Jr

Got my RH riser today. The maple is stained darker than the LH riser and I think is more pleasant against the phenolic. 

Oh... and this one has the locking set screws under the limb bolts.


----------



## aluminated

Jim Casto Jr said:


> ...Oh... and this one has the locking set screws under the limb bolts.


Speaking of which, I put together these notes. Feel free to check, add, and/or correct.

_*White Feather Lark
Hardware & Drive Sizes:*

Lateral limb alignment screws (#8 or 5/32”)
5/64” / 2 mm drive

Dovetail screw (1/4”)
5/32” / 4mm drive

Limb bolt (??? 1/4” ???)
3/16” drive

Limb bolt locking set screw (5/16”)
5/32” / 4mm drive

Limb bolt turns from down to out : 13_


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## Jim Casto Jr

The limb bolt and the limb bolt locking screw are 5/16 - 18


----------



## aluminated

Jim Casto Jr said:


> The limb bolt and the limb bolt locking screw are 5/16 - 18


Thanks! The metric screws I usually deal with typically don’t have a fine vs coarse thread pitch, so I missed that.
The 5/16 - 18 is coarse while a 5/16 - 24 would be fine, correct?


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

aluminated said:


> Thanks! The metric screws I usually deal with typically don’t have a fine vs coarse thread pitch, so I missed that.
> The 5/16 - 18 is coarse while a 5/16 - 24 would be fine, correct?


That's correct. A lot of limb bolts are 5/16 -18 and stabilizer bushings and plunger bushings are 5/16 - 24.


----------



## pipcount

As I shoot very low weight limbs, I am planning to center cut another ~3/32 deeper into riser. Put bow down, taped up to protect and thought to myself- wow, this seems to have very little deflex (as another observed, a lot like old Bear "c" risers- very flat.)

See below- overlaid a SF Forged on top, tried to line up the handles - looks to me as though the Lark has significantly less deflex, a bit more than 1/2" further forward limb positions and less angle in pocket as well. That would explain all the observed tendency for limbs to rate a bit higher than anticipated on the Lark vs. what they might on other bows.

vs. earlier report, I found the limb pocket set screws to be M4 0.7, NOT an english thread. I am using a machinist thread tester, threaded all ~8-10mm or so of screw fine into socket, no binding. Set screw would not thread into any english sizes fully, bound after 3-5 threads engaged. Be very careful tightening these down, they don't seem to have much thread to grab at full extension- I purchased some longer ones (12mm) to sub in (Ace HW- $0.85 each,) will report out on how that works out- should help with the "loosening" reported by others and observed myself as well. All other bolts seem fine to me on my 4 risers, no plans to change or check.


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

The limb bolts and set screws are 5/16" - 18 on th WFL risers. I picked up two 5/16" - 18 x 3/8" set screws for $.37 cents each at the local hardware for my LH riser.


----------



## grantmac

Pipcount you mean the dovetail alignment setscrews correct? I may get longer ones as well plus use a touch of Teflon tape.


I'll be eagerly watching the modifications you do. I'm considering doing the same.


----------



## celtpaddy

I bought the 21 and the 23 and I’m getting a higher brace height with the 21in. riser. I’m using pse short xpression limbs on both risers. It looks like the 23 has a different limb pocket angle than the 21 . I’m getting a 8in brace on the shorter riser. And barley getting 7-71/2 on the 23. Both strings on both risers are out of the string groves on the limbs. I would think the longer riser would give a longer brace.


----------



## PrairieWorks

I have looked at the alternative sevices website, but see no option for shipping to United States.
How does one go about ordering?


----------



## ceratops

PrairieWorks said:


> I have looked at the alternative sevices website, but see no option for shipping to United States.
> How does one go about ordering?


When you go on the site, it initially asks you what country you're in. Will give appropriate shipping quote after you put stuff in cart and go to check out. It was pretty seamless, in my experience.


----------



## PrairieWorks

Thanks for the help.


----------



## pipcount

"A picture is worth a thousand words"- see below image for set screw used to hold dovetail in place. Stock set screws used to hold the dovetail in place are M4 0.7 and 8mm long. The stock length set screws do not seem to grab enough threads to really hold, which might be why so many folks, including myself on 17, 19, 21, and 23" have seen them loosen up.

I bought 12 mm and they fit pretty well, slightly recessed below surface and clean. I choose black ones, think it is nicer that way, doesn't show as much. I like Grantmac's idea of trying some teflon tape also with them, very likely to help them stay in place. 

Other than these dovetail set screws, I have seen NO other items loosen up on the riser. I still really really like them, for the price must be the best value in the world. My only wish they had a bit more deflex, more limb pocket angle, for my 32" draw.


----------



## pipcount

Hey... found another really neat idea for keeping the screws from loosening up. Found below on internet, going to try if the teflon tape wrapping doesn't work. Teflon is simpler, and certainly wont lock the screws in place so hard that removing is challenging. 

If teflon tape fails, here is a really great trick with loctite and thread from internet: "Wrap the threads of the screw with some sewing thread. Wind the thread around the shaft of the screw in a clockwise direction and dab a few drops of thread locking adhesive to the sewing thread to hold it in place. Cut off the excess thread and install the screw in place according to the manufacturer's specifications (do not over tighten)." 

Notes- if you are not familiar with loctite, it is an odd adhesive that only sets if oxygen is NOT present, so don't paint it on and expect that it will "dry"- it will only set up properly if you use it where and how intended. Once screw is installed, oxygen can no longer get to the adhesive, it sets in place. Their little bottles are actually designed to let oxygen get in- totally opposite of most one part adhesives on market for folks like you and I. On the thread: a good thread is designed so there is a bit of gap between male and female parts, so a fine thread should work great for this, mostly fill in gap, "grab" just a bit on the metal on either side. A really GREAT idea here.

I don't really like loctite if I ever plan to remove a screw. I might simply try the thread idea, but with a simpler adhesive- clean screw, maybe take a thread I run beeswax onto or bohning blue, wrap, install. Beeswax is great stuff for stickiness, should be good for absorbing vibrations that cause the loosening, easy to remove for sure. 

Want a laugh- read my adventure with a stuck socket head cap screw below. I submitted this years ago, the magazine was kind enough to send me a note that it was one of the most popular they had run, far more responses came back than typical, and the responses they sent me were FUNNY to read. 

http://www.machinistsworkshop.net/a-bang-up-method-for-removing-stuck-screws/


----------



## lameduck

Just make sure not to use a permanent threadlock (loctite) that usually comes in red color. Use the blue one.


----------



## aluminated

pipcount said:


> "A picture is worth a thousand words"- see below image for set screw used to hold dovetail in place. Stock set screws used to hold the dovetail in place are M4 0.7 and 8mm long. The stock length set screws do not seem to grab enough threads to really hold, which might be why so many folks, including myself on 17, 19, 21, and 23" have seen them loosen up.
> 
> I bought 12 mm and they fit pretty well, slightly recessed below surface and clean. I choose black ones, think it is nicer that way, doesn't show as much. I like Grantmac's idea of trying some teflon tape also with them, very likely to help them stay in place.
> 
> Other than these dovetail set screws, I have seen NO other items loosen up on the riser. I still really really like them, for the price must be the best value in the world. My only wish they had a bit more deflex, more limb pocket angle, for my 32" draw.
> 
> View attachment 6927875


You have to wonder about the mixing of the SAE and metric sizes. I noticed the metric driver fitting better in the LLAS hardware but I figured it was my tools that were funky.


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## pipcount

Aluminated: My guess.. but an educated or at least experienced one on why this riser has a mix of metric and english threads: I have the interesting role at a major HPC computer manufacturer as a "product manager"- so I am supposed to guide future product, guess the market, see trends from past extend to future, and most importantly: Take the blame from EVERYONE when something doesnt go perfectly.  Buck stops here! 

I see this stuff all the time. We end up carrying legacy "standards" forward because... drum roll... that is what became a standard! Whether it complies with "modern" ideas/standards or not, you follow in the footsteps of the giants that BUILT THE PATH. ILF standards from hoyt's patents set the path, limb manufacturers build to ILF imperial measurements, etc.- folks follow the path on the key components. Then, improvements follow a tangent... and you get this mix of "imperial" for the key "old stuff" like the bolts that position the rear of a limb, and then misc. versions of the "new stuff/new paths" that make sense in today's world of metric components.

Lameduck: You are right, red loctite is safer than blue. I only stock the red version myself. That said, personally, I only use loctite (blue or red) on stuff I do not plan later to change/as a last resort for thorny problems. If the problem is vibration caused loosening, loctite can be overkill. I usually find a solution with rubber washers, lock nuts, teflon, etc. that absorb the vibration and dampen it. Not always, but usually. I use superglue far more often, easier to break free with heat, and a great "workholding" solution for machining. Outside of "permanent fixtures/parts" I have only used loctite red a handful of times over the last decade. I do not claim "expert status" and may be too cautious. My hobbies are fixing misc. junk that tickles my or my families fancy and cannot be purchased any more in a quality item, making stuff, machinist, archer, backgammon board fixer upper, RC stuff, etc... thinking of making a riser soon, and another couple archery ideas in works that are maybe worth patenting and selling. - stay tuned. 

I believe our problem on the dovetail limb adjustment set screws/ grub screws is caused by two things: too few threads engaged and vibration caused loosening. Given my aversion to loctite, I am going to try a longer set screw with the Teflon tape, then the thread with beeswax, then thread with bohning blue and a bit of heat on an allen wrench in the socket, then... loctite red. I could be wrong on why loosening, will know after- experimentation, observation, analysis. Good lord... I sound almost rationale. 

My archery hobby is not rationale- or I would own but one bow, one set of limbs, maybe a small selection of arrow types. You all probably sympathize, with my wife I was devious and got her into the sport. I suspect in another year she will be a better archer than I, if accuracy is the measure. And I keep up the warranted praise for her progress so I can get away with... buying junk I later don't use. 

Did anyone read the link above? I can almost guarantee you will laugh about it! Worth 3 minutes- heck, you are spending far longer here on this forum. Read it and tell me if you laugh- then I can really feel like a "participating forum member."

I am very happy to be here with you all! Thank you, and thanks for the responses!


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## pipcount

Oh.. now that I am happy with the 10-12mm M4 set screws, I purchased a WHOLE BOX for my other risers for only a bit more than it would have been for the one off parts. Not worth sending out to you all, but for $6 you can get 50 of these. The 10mm likely to work as well, and would provide a bit more tolerance, and with a 0.7mm pitch with 2mm longer screw gives you another ~ three threads of engagement- which should be fine. I will stick to the 12mm long parts as I have grinders, lathes, etc in garage and can always bring them down a little if too long.

https://www.amazon.com/Grade12-9-Te...m4+12mm+set+grub+screw&qid=1568421265&sr=8-10


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## Valentino

Let me share one alternative to Loctite. Couple years ago when I was working for Greyp bikes I find they are using tread lock product highly resistant to vibrations on bolts that must be adjusted from time to time. Product is Vibra-tite VC-3
This is somewhere between loctite blue and red, provides good securing and easy to re-fastened. 
Later on I noticed that Easton pack this product in their packaging and resale it on same purpose. 
Here in Europe it is not common product and it is hard to get it, but in USA it is highly available.


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## CFGuy

aluminated said:


> I just had my first real shooting sessions with a new-to-me White Feather Lark (19” ILF riser) and Soul Black Flash limbs.
> I think I’m going to have to echo the words of an old blues standard (also recorded by Led Zeppelin) and tell my vintage hunting bows, “I can’t quit you baby, So I’m gonna put you down for awhile.”
> Even with the cheapest (fiberglass/wood) Black Flash limbs, I am by far outshooting every other bow I own with it. I’m glad I got some better ones too. It’ll be interesting to see the differences, if any.
> So far, so great. I seem to be keeping up with the Striker RK1 being shot alongside me. It’s a heckuva too-notch bow too.


I may have missed something obvious in this thread, but what makes it particularly special/accurate?


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## pipcount

CFGuy: Your question: "I may have missed something obvious in this thread, but what makes it particularly special/accurate?" is a very good one. My take below:

Likely that the riser is a good to very good riser in general- decent center cut, stiff with the use of phenolic, reasonable limb pocket angles, etc. And, my personal favorite- it is drop dead gorgeous to me personally. Finest looking risers I have. Paired with good looking CF limbs it is awesome pretty.

Add that Aluminated sounds like a good and careful shooter, then add a ton of foresight on his part (and not a little luck) in getting the right combination of string, silencers, arrows (Spine, length, fletching, tip weight, nock weight, etc), etc. together on one day of shooting. And he likely had a "good day"- a new riser, shooting well, makes you happy, which is a very good positive re-enforcement. I know I shoot better when happy about equipment.

Once I get a bow tuned in, I see little difference in shooting capabilities from one to another. Some are more forgiving than others, maybe, but I am not really good enough to be sure. I am shooting, for me, good groups on the Larks, but not my best- and still have some tuning to fix. I know, for instance, that last time out my arrows were not spined right for the bow- clear evidence of the fletching hitting rest HARD. So- try a different spine, tip, etc. P

But MAN I struggle to get them tuned in, then I am STUPID and change something. I am finally getting to the point that I am putting a rig together, tuning it, then LEAVING IT ALONE and documenting well arrow details, what sort of string/silencer, etc worked. But, I am only a "fair shooter" doing on a good day PPX20 (Pie Plate at 20yds), "barebow", and only back in sport in last 18 months. All that I say is thus suspect.


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## CFGuy

pipcount said:


> CFGuy: Your question: "I may have missed something obvious in this thread, but what makes it particularly special/accurate?" is a very good one. My take below:
> 
> Likely that the riser is a good to very good riser in general- decent center cut, stiff with the use of phenolic, reasonable limb pocket angles, etc. And, my personal favorite- it is drop dead gorgeous to me personally. Finest looking risers I have. Paired with good looking CF limbs it is awesome pretty.
> 
> Add that Aluminated sounds like a good and careful shooter, then add a ton of foresight on his part (and not a little luck) in getting the right combination of string, silencers, arrows (Spine, length, fletching, tip weight, nock weight, etc), etc. together on one day of shooting. And he likely had a "good day"- a new riser, shooting well, makes you happy, which is a very good positive re-enforcement. I know I shoot better when happy about equipment.
> 
> Once I get a bow tuned in, I see little difference in shooting capabilities from one to another. Some are more forgiving than others, maybe, but I am not really good enough to be sure. I am shooting, for me, good groups on the Larks, but not my best- and still have some tuning to fix. I know, for instance, that last time out my arrows were not spined right for the bow- clear evidence of the fletching hitting rest HARD. So- try a different spine, tip, etc. P
> 
> But MAN I struggle to get them tuned in, then I am STUPID and change something. I am finally getting to the point that I am putting a rig together, tuning it, then LEAVING IT ALONE and documenting well arrow details, what sort of string/silencer, etc worked. But, I am only a "fair shooter" doing on a good day PPX20 (Pie Plate at 20yds), "barebow", and only back in sport in last 18 months. All that I say is thus suspect.


It really is a nice looking riser, the finish and colour combinations look great. Good point about a "good day", there's also the new-thing phenomenon (a new guitar plays really well, a new bow shoots really well, etc).

Good to know re: quality of the riser. I would think that most things being equal there would be little difference from one to the next without the addition of gadgets like a rest, weight, etc.


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## NemesisXZ

Hi! I'm gonna buy the 23" RH WF Lark riser with the 40 lbs flight limbs but I don't know the brace height of the bow. Who knows this information? I sent an email to AlternativeSS and they don't know, that's why I'm asking here. Ty.


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## Jim Casto Jr

No one can say for sure what the brace height should be for that particular riser and those particular limbs. I'd suggest just string it up, twist the string until you can see about 3/4" to 1" of string groove under the string and start there.


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## lameduck

What side plate material do you guys use on your WFL? Is leather a good one?


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## Stunchy

Finally got a string and shot my WFL for the first time on Tuesday. I wasn’t planning on shooting it and had to set it up quickly. Just used Velcro for both the shelf and the strike plate. Only took about a dozen practice shots and got some arrows to fly pretty good. They were flying a bit weak and to the left (I’m a lefty) so I think I need a slightly thicker shelf. Probably need a lighter point. Also, when I put string silencers on, that should help a bit. 

I jumped right into our 3D league shoot (it’s not really a league, just people having fun shooting indoor 3D with a bit of structure). I had low expectations, shooting a brand new bow that was not dialed in or tuned. And it went much better than I thought it would. 

It only took a few arrows for my mind to (mostly) bring my groups over to the right and the arrows were hitting the point I was aiming at. I did struggle with occasional shots going left, but it pretty much disappeared by the end of the night. 

I really like the grip and the weight of the riser. It’s been a while since I’ve shot off the shelf, so that was cool. I’ll probably put a light 2 arrow bow quiver on it for outdoor 3D. 

It was very quiet - even without string silencers. I’m not sure why. My friend who makes the string (D97), pads the loops. So I think that helped. Also, the string was a bit long, so I had to put a lot of twists into it which might have also acted as a bit of a shock absorber. Limb bolts were all the way in (I’m still annoyed about not having set screws). He’s making me a new string, so we’ll see how that one goes. Arrows were pretty heavy - I think over 500 grains, so that also helped. Limbs were my 42# Max 6s and the brace height was 8 1/8. 

The draw felt heavy to me, but I can’t tell you exactly what it came in at. I’ve been shooting 38# limbs mostly, so 42# would definitely feel heavier but this seemed like more than that. The lack of deflex is quite noticeable. When I get some set screws, I’ll back out the limb bolts a few turns. 

So far, I’m very happy with the riser. I’m confident that with some minor modifications and some more fine tuning, I can get it to shoot as good as my ability allows. It looks great (People are generally complementary whenever anyone shows up with a new bow, but everyone seemed to genuinely admire the looks). The price point is also great, especially at the 23” length.


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## pipcount

Stunchy- I took apart my 23" riser limb bolts this week to check them, found out that there are locking set screws in there, use a much smaller allen wrench than I usually use and I totally missed that they were even there until I disassembled. They use the idea of "jam nuts" but with essentially an internal set screw that threads up in the same channel used by the limb bolt. It seems like a simple enough adder if you don't have them already- figure out the thread of the limb screw, head over to Ace HW and pick up a set screw of the same thread (make sure it grabs at a min 3 threads, 4 better, 5 is overkill.) You might wish to check real carefully first- I missed them entirely on my first pass, you may already have them in place. See Jam nuts (exterior nuts) here for idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam_nut 

In other news: Set up the 23" this weekend with "super recurve" XL limbs from Uukha (VX+) that make a 72" AMO with a 25" riser, so about 70" on my 23" riser. My own flemish string (16 strand FF), hoyt super rest with smallest possible pad/sticky thickness, 24# limbs tested at 30# at my draw of 32", Skylon 32" 600 arrows... Had a great time, great and very smooth shooter, quiet. Had some of best backyard shooting groups I get- ~4" at 15 yds. Maybe need stiffer arrows.

One observation against the lark risers: It is really HARD to tell when you have your limbs properly lined up in the pockets on these risers. No "Flats" to measure from left to right, etc. I had set up by using a feeler gauge set to get the same gap on each side of the ILF dovetail insert, checked visually- looked pretty good. But when I drew back inside house to just "feel" the draw I noticed the string did not want to come back into the groove exactly. Looked like, horrors, the limbs were twisted. I thought about it a bit, decided that this effect might also occur if the limbs were not lined up properly, especially given the "XL/Super recurve" aspect. A visual recheck did not show anything grossly out of whack. About a month back I had picked up a set of the EarlyHuman.co "tuning forks" but had never used- put them to use, lightly modified settings and eliminated the issue. I suspect I moved the limbs over only ~1/20-1/40" of an inch at the pocket, but this would be magnified by ~10x at the tip for 1/4 to 1/2 inch displacement. This "limbs not aligned" on lark riser has happened to me on the 19" and 21" as well. I strongly recommend folks invest in either tuning forks or Beiter alignment aids. The tuning forks cost ~$30 and are simpler and quicker to use than Beiter (my opinion.) A great investment. 

Was at range this weekend, youngmarine joined me and purchased my spare 21" after shooting a while. Another fellow at our local range is a VERY accomplished compound shooter and pulled out a longbow saying "all the compound stuff is starting to wear upon me"- turned out the longbow draw weight was a bit much to start trad shooting with, so I loaned him my 21" lark with the above limbs and the guy had a blast: At end of day, after last round: "Did you see my last round? 30yds, a couple of 8's, 9's, etc. Darn it, now I want that riser."

More happy folks having a "Lark"


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## m60gunner

I am enjoying my 21” riser. With my TT carbon/foam long limbs I have a nice target/3D bow. I am also amazed how quite the bow is with just a pair of cat whiskers. Right now I have a cut down brush rest on it. That may change if I go to a competition shoot. I found exactly 2 unfilled tiny holes in the riser. I have seen risers on custom bows not as well finished. Of course time will tell. The bows weight is just right and I find it stable enough. Another plus for me is cost. The limbs were “scratch and dent”, mismarked, so I got them for a good price. Of course the riser is reasonable as well. Heck, I couldn’t even make one for the price. This is going to be my “traveling bow”.


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## lameduck

aluminated said:


> I just had my first real shooting sessions with a new-to-me White Feather Lark (19” ILF riser) and Soul Black Flash limbs.
> I think I’m going to have to echo the words of an old blues standard (also recorded by Led Zeppelin) and tell my vintage hunting bows, “I can’t quit you baby, So I’m gonna put you down for awhile.”
> Even with the cheapest (fiberglass/wood) Black Flash limbs, I am by far outshooting every other bow I own with it. I’m glad I got some better ones too. It’ll be interesting to see the differences, if any.
> So far, so great. I seem to be keeping up with the Striker RK1 being shot alongside me. It’s a heckuva too-notch bow too.


Does it shoot better without a side plate? I have another WFL riser coming soon and trying to find the best setup for it.


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## CFGuy

I'm not sure why anyone would shoot a recurve off the shelf without a strike plate. There's a ridiculous amount of arrow contact with a flat riser like that.


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## Stunchy

Pipcount, thank you for the helpful comments. I’m pretty sure that when I first got the riser, I unscrewed the limb bolts all the way and removed them - and there were no set screws in there. But maybe I’m misremembering. I’ll check again when I have a chance. Even if they aren’t there, I’d still recommend the riser. It appears to be a great value purchase. I’m just a bit annoyed the set screws are missing. 

Unfortunately my time is limited and I have a new archery experiment lined up for tonight. I received a thumb ring in the mail last week. So I swapped in some low weight limbs and I’m going to try it tonight with this riser at our indoor 3D league. Right handed (I’m a lefty and so is the bow), off the shelf, thumb ring, about 50 shots worth of experience - I think this shoot will be a memorable one...

On a complete different topic, as I was taking my first few shots right handed, I understood a little better what “The Aimers” have been saying about sight picture. But I’ll save a deep dive into those thoughts for an appropriate thread.


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## sixlomaz

Thank you OP and everyone else who contributed to this thread. You have convinced me to try the 21" version of this riser with a set of TradeTech Black Max 2.0 wood and fiberglass recurve limbs. I will post an update and some pictures once I get the riser and the string for the bow. The M4 / 0.7 coarse 10 or 12 mm set screws for the riser are now available on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BHVTLQ1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## pipcount

Modified the 23" Lark/XL uukha limbs set up this week. The 16 FF Strands were a bit too large on my pin nocks, so twisted up a 12 strand setup. Otherwise: 23" this with "super recurve" XL limbs from Uukha (VX+) that make a 72" AMO with a 25" riser, so about 70" on my 23" riser. Practically, due to the massive recurve on limbs the bow is about as long as a standard 68" bow, making it a bit more pleasant to manage and move around. No big deal on the range, but I sure notice it going in and out of my back door, picking up target, etc. 

This is a nice combination- the draw is very smooth at ~31", you can feel the limbs are different vs. standard recurve. The slightly lower length is nice, etc. Long term I want to build out a 2x4 with pegs and my scale, map out the draw weight vs. draw curves and compare for the Uukha VX+ vs. their standard Evo 2 limbs. The data would show the real situation- and I could extend it to the 21" and 19" risers relatively quickly as well, so we could characterize how stuff looks for longer vs. shorter risers with two sets of limbs.


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## Crunch

I read over this thread again. Great information here. I had pretty much decided on getting a 23”, but the lack of deflex, might sway me towards the 21”. I wonder if the forgiveness factor of 2” more length is cancelled out by the reflex. 🙂


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## Dalion

When you install your ILF limbs on this riser, do the detent pins on the limbs have to go across wood before they reach the ILF fitting on the riser?


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## Draven Olary

No. Go back to page 3 and you will see a picture of the limb pad


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## Stunchy

I’m an idiot. Pipcount was right. My Lark does have set screws. Different size hex wrench required. My apologies to Mr White Feather and his family. 

Also, more evidence that I’m an idiot... I didn’t take everyone’s advice regarding those lateral adjustment screws. I lost one. Need to go get some replacements I suppose.


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## Jim Casto Jr

Stunchy said:


> Need to go get some replacements I suppose.


Don't worry about it. Everyone had the everything for the first time-once. 


My riser didn't have the limb bolt set screws so I had to get a set from the local hardware. Wasn't a big deal because you don't really NEED to have them. 

The lateral alignment set srews are a different story. You absolutely NEED those. So... don't "suppose" on those and I wouldn't shoot the bow until the replacements were installed.


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## aluminated

I found the LLASs at a Home Depot. Shouldn’t be too hard to track down. I believe it was 57¢ for a pair, whether 10mm or 12mm in length.


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## pipcount

Observation- regarding the limb lateral adjustment capability and what is "right" location:

On my 23", using the "Early Human Tuning Forks", I find the location of the dovetail is quite a bit displaced from the center of the pocket it is in, perhaps 30% to one side more than the other- 2-3mm. Per earlier thread commentary, the location I am using now seems to fit vs. the UUKHA limbs and removed what appeared to be twist, the bow shoots very quietly and seems quite "smooth". 

I have not used lateral adjustment on other bows much, so this seems a bit unusual. An earlier 21" I set up I think was also offset quite a bit, used "eyeball" only on that one- not sure, but fellow who bought from me seemed surprised at the adjustment amount.

I remain exceptionally pleased with the bow's shooting and looks, but am very curious- are other shooters finding similar large offset of the lateral limb adjustment screws? If answer is NO... wonder what is up with me- Is it the bow, or "me"?


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## pipcount

Pic is worth a thousand words: On my 23", using the "Early Human Tuning Forks", I find the location of the dovetail is quite a bit displaced from the center of the pocket it is in, perhaps 30% to one side more than the other- 2-3mm. Per earlier thread commentary, the location I am using now seems to fit vs. the UUKHA limbs and removed what appeared to be twist, the bow shoots very quietly and seems quite "smooth". 

Image representative of what I mean, although the gaps might be reversed... Others seeing same? Not just "loose when arrived" but that the "right" location is pretty displaced vs. the center of the pocket that holds the dovetail?


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## WabanakiWarrior

pip I have noticed that on my riser that there is a twist coming out of the dovetail slot as well I have not measured if it is out of alignment another issue I am having with the dovetail slot is that it protrudes at least 1 1/16 from the limb pad area and is really digging into my limbs does anybody have a suggestion on how to fix this for now I put Velcro around the dovetail fitting so all of the pressure is not on the edge of the dovetail slot


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## WabanakiWarrior

sorry 1/16th not 1 1/16


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## pipcount

WabanakiWarrior- 

first, get a shorter handle  Second: Either return or fix. I would return personally- takes less time out of my life, but then you are out a riser for a while. 

Fixes break out as "add something" or "remove something"

"Add something" fix is to go to home depot or a hobby shop, find a 1/16 piece of hard plastic/Aluminum, cut to fit in pocket and around the dovetail pocket. Glue or doublesided tape to hold in place. Heck- might even make bow quieter if you get a hard rubber. Easy to do, quick

"remove something" is to Mill the pocket deeper or file down the aluminum dovetail piece- If the dovetail is thick enough I would try file first for the fix by removal method. When filing I would remove the dovetail and file the "bottom" or solid side if it is thick enough. You might also find a bump or paint spot under there causing the whole issue.

Anyone else seeing the limbs aligned with the dovetail significantly off center in the little pocket/channel as in pic above?


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## grantmac

So long as the limbs are in plane the position of the dovetail is irrelevant.


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## WabanakiWarrior

i started a new thread on my current situation and was advised to send it back


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## WabanakiWarrior

the channel for the fitting is not deep enough. i was thinking about taking a file to the dovetail fitting but it sticks out about the same depth as the material i need to remove so the only other option is to modify the riser or return


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## WabanakiWarrior

lol I meant to say there will not be enough material left on the fitting. I would pretty much need to remove the whole bottom of the fitting. my above statement is pretty obvious lol


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## GEREP

Do yourself a favor and send it back and get one that is built correctly.

KPC


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## strugglesticks

[emoji3516] This is what I would do also.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## pipcount

Grantmac- agree completely, the location of the dovetail in channel doesnt matter if limbs are in plane. My concern/question: Did I really do the alignment right? Or is the real issue me and how I am trying to align? I was trained as a scientist in my youth, and one baseline of science is "do others replicate your findings?" 

I have two personal experiments now that suggest the channels are displaced, but I am not certain my methodology of determining such is correct. The Early Human tuning forks seem a pretty straightforward method, the fact I got the twist out of the limb tips suggest I moved into alignment, etc. So maybe I should just consider it good enough, but.. curious. If others are finding same, I get more comfortable.

The larger limb pocket base/bottoms/where limbs bear down seem 100% aligned, there is no "twist" imparted there, so moving the dovetail worked fine, bow shoots great. I love it, am getting rid of other stuff now that I did not love.


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## grantmac

pipcount said:


> Grantmac- agree completely, the location of the dovetail in channel doesnt matter if limbs are in plane. My concern/question: Did I really do the alignment right? Or is the real issue me and how I am trying to align? I was trained as a scientist in my youth, and one baseline of science is "do others replicate your findings?"
> 
> I have two personal experiments now that suggest the channels are displaced, but I am not certain my methodology of determining such is correct. The Early Human tuning forks seem a pretty straightforward method, the fact I got the twist out of the limb tips suggest I moved into alignment, etc. So maybe I should just consider it good enough, but.. curious. If others are finding same, I get more comfortable.
> 
> The larger limb pocket base/bottoms/where limbs bear down seem 100% aligned, there is no "twist" imparted there, so moving the dovetail worked fine, bow shoots great. I love it, am getting rid of other stuff now that I did not love.


You're fine.


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## KaizenFlow

*Just ordered a Lark and two sets of limbs thanks to this thread!*

ILF Newbie / Forum newbie here!  _Thanks so much to all the posters on this thread_ who unknowingly helped with my research! I was really liking this bow and wasn't aware it was available in longer lengths until I found this thread, so that sealed the deal. 

*I just ordered a 23" Lark and two sets of limbs!* :teeth: from AlternativeSS.com


 Soul Black Flash FW limbs - SALE 68 22 = 75.40 USD
 WNS Elite-Alpha Carbon/Foam limbs - SALE 68 38 = 174.70 USD


The Black Flash will be my "warmup" limbs and also for days when I'm feeling a bit sore etc., and also to let inexperienced friends/ archery students use.

The WNS Elites will be my "business" limbs for "serious" LOL backyard target practice as serious as I get.

I understand from this thread I should add 2# to those numbers because the # ratings are for a 25" riser, so they'll be 40# and 24#.

I could use some advice on which strings to get, and setup/tuning. I'm a trad barebow archer mainly used to my ol' horsebow and a few different one-piece recurves. I plan to silence the string(s) with Beaver Balls or similar. 

Thanks so much everyone!




aluminated said:


> I purchased Soul Black Flash limbs for my Larks:
> 
> 34# Carbon-Wood in Long
> 34# Fiberglass-Wood in Medium
> Of course, one needs to add about 6# to each since they are being used on a 19" riser and the draw weight rating is for a 25" riser.
> I like them both but see very little difference in MY shooting.
> For the money - now at $75.40 for a pair due to the clearance sale - I'd pick up the FW version.
> 
> ... A general rule is to add about a pound for every inch shorter than the rated riser length, and subtract about a pound for every inch longer than the rated riser length.


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## KaizenFlow

Thanks @ pipcount, you're making me feel good about my choice of 68" limbs... I ordered 68" limbs for the 23" Lark riser - so does that mean I'll have what's known as a "66-inch" bow because the specs are based on 25" risers?



pipcount said:


> Modified the 23" Lark/XL uukha limbs set up this week. The 16 FF Strands were a bit too large on my pin nocks, so twisted up a 12 strand setup. Otherwise: 23" this with "super recurve" XL limbs from Uukha (VX+) that make a 72" AMO with a 25" riser, so about 70" on my 23" riser. Practically, due to the massive recurve on limbs the bow is about as long as a standard 68" bow, making it a bit more pleasant to manage and move around. No big deal on the range, but I sure notice it going in and out of my back door, picking up target, etc. ...


----------



## KaizenFlow

Pipcount any luck getting your alignment evened out/dialed in? Are you finding that "Early Human Tuning Fork" is the right tool for the job? I don't have that but I think I have a sparkplug gap measuring tool somewhere, I could probably use that to make sure both sides are even?

I want to set up my 23" WFL correctly when it arrives. So the goal is to just make sure the limb is centered with even gap on both sides?

Thanks!

- KaizenFlow, IFL newbie



pipcount said:


> Pic is worth a thousand words: On my 23", using the "Early Human Tuning Forks", I find the location of the dovetail is quite a bit displaced from the center of the pocket it is in, perhaps 30% to one side more than the other- 2-3mm. Per earlier thread commentary, the location I am using now seems to fit vs. the UUKHA limbs and removed what appeared to be twist, the bow shoots very quietly and seems quite "smooth".
> 
> Image representative of what I mean, although the gaps might be reversed... Others seeing same? Not just "loose when arrived" but that the "right" location is pretty displaced vs. the center of the pocket that holds the dovetail?
> 
> View attachment 6968487


----------



## grantmac

Kaizen you'll have a 66" bow. I'd say due to geometry it's more of a +4# riser.


----------



## NemesisXZ

Hi! I bought a RH 23" WF Lark with the #40 WF Flight limbs, having a 68" bow. I wanna know if this bow is compatible with a Fast Flight (FF) string or only can use a dacron string. Ty.


----------



## grantmac

NemesisXZ said:


> Hi! I bought a RH 23" WF Lark with the #40 WF Flight limbs, having a 68" bow. I wanna know if this bow is compatible with a Fast Flight (FF) string or only can use a dacron string. Ty.


Yes its compatible.


----------



## KaizenFlow

grantmac said:


> Kaizen you'll have a 66" bow. I'd say due to geometry it's more of a +4# riser.


Thanks so much @grantmac! I went a little crazy and also ordered a 21" Lark riser so I can set up two bows with sets of different "68" (Medium?) limbs.

So will I want 66" and 64" strings to go with the 23" and 21" risers?


----------



## lameduck

KaizenFlow said:


> Thanks so much @grantmac! I went a little crazy and also ordered a 21" Lark riser so I can set up two bows with sets of different "68" (Medium?) limbs.
> 
> So will I want 66" and 64" strings to go with the 23" and 21" risers?


I did exactly the same thing, because the 23" was SOLD out when I placed an order for it. I played with the 21" while waiting for the 23" which got even delayed because I ordered it with Uukha limbs which took 5 weeks to deliver. 

I love both of my Lark risers. They are perfectly balanced if you like to shoot barebow.


----------



## grantmac

66 and 64 AMO strings are what you want.

Personally I think the risers have areas for improvement, but they are cheap so it's not something unexpected and I won't feel too bad taking a sander to them.


----------



## KaizenFlow

Anyone shooting a *23" WFL riser with Long limbs*, and if so, *what is your brace height?* 

Thanks!


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

8" with a set of Uukha Ex1 Evo2's and the other is 8 1/2" with Axioms. I'd assumed it would be around 9" but that's too high with these risers.


----------



## grantmac

7.75--8" the geometry is quite aggressive, hence the low BH.


----------



## KaizenFlow

Thanks guys! RE: your 7.75-8.5" reported brace height on a 23" WFL + long limbs, I just did some test shooting at 8.6" BH and it seems to be doing fine, maybe feels not as smooth as lower BH?... or what would be the disadvantage of going higher e.g. 9" BH?


----------



## lameduck

Aside from getting it to shoot quietly, what else is the reason for finding the right brace height? My 23" Lark is already quiet at 7.5" BH.


----------



## KaizenFlow

lameduck said:


> Aside from getting it to shoot quietly, what else is the reason for finding the right brace height? My 23" Lark is already quiet at 7.5" BH.


Thanks *lameduck*, I'll lower it and see if it gets quieter, that is definitely important to me! I started at 7" BH with the 23+longs and it was vibrating like crazy and super loud, so I jumped to 8"+ BH, but didn't really try in between. It helps to know what I'm looking/listening for!


----------



## lameduck

KaizenFlow said:


> Thanks *lameduck*, I'll lower it and see if it gets quieter, that is definitely important to me! I started at 7" BH with the 23+longs and it was vibrating like crazy and super loud, so I jumped to 8"+ BH, but didn't really try in between. It helps to know what I'm looking/listening for!


By the way, I use medium sized limbs. I don't know if the same brace height works for your long limbs.


----------



## KaizenFlow

Thanks guys, tuning and shooting in my living room  haha, working on the Brace Height for both 

21" and 23" risers
with
- Medium Limbs
- Long Limbs

As I'm trying to figure out optimal BH for all the possible combos of limbs and risers I have, I've compiled from this thread the following:

Reported *BRACE HEIGHT aka BH*
*21" Riser + Short limbs *= 8" 
*21" Riser + Medium limbs *= 8.25" - KaizenFlow (may tweak but seems to be decent)
*23" Riser + Short limbs* = 7-7.5" 
*23" Riser + (Medium) limbs *= 7.5" - lameduck
8" with Hoyt Carbon 840 in Medium, seems quieter than 8.5" - KaizenFlow

*23" Riser + (?) Limbs:* 8 1/8 - stunchy
*23" Riser + Long Limbs* = 7.75-8.5
7.75--8" the geometry is quite aggressive, hence the low BH. - grantmac
8" with a set of Uukha Ex1 Evo2's and the other is 8 1/2" with Axioms. I'd assumed it would be around 9" but that's too high with these risers. - Jim Castro Jr.


Can y'all help complete the list of reported good Brace Heights for different Riser Length + Limb Length combos?

Thanks!


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

On any recurve, you can twist the striing up/down until you can see about 1" of string groove under the string. That's always a good place to "start".


----------



## stoutstuff

Anyone shooting Longbow limbs? Thoughts... Thanks!


----------



## YoungMarine

I was replacing one of the m4x12mm lateral limb adjustment set screws today that had fallen out at some point and a spring inside that thread pocket (that apparently is all the threads grab onto and probably why so many are falling out)started backing out behind the set screw. While trying to thread it back in I lost it in my shop as happens to many springy things. Does anyone have an idea for a better replacement for these set screw threads? Surely other bow companies don’t stick a spring in there to hold set screws in their wooden risers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m60gunner

Funny you should mention this. I just noticed today I have lost one of the screws in my riser. I can see threads, is this what your talking about?


----------



## YoungMarine

m60gunner said:


> Funny you should mention this. I just noticed today I have lost one of the screws in my riser. I can see threads, is this what your talking about?


Yes, it may be hard to tell if yours is fully seated, but the “spring” I’m talking about looks like a helicoil. Wondering if a threaded “ez-lok” style wood insert would hold better if the riser is not too dense for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m60gunner

Looks like a trip to the hardware store in AM. Not familiar with ez lock. I would think one could tap out the hole for a threaded insert. Hopefully I just need the screw. I went through a similar experience with stripped out screw holes in a Bear Mag riser. Buy the time I bought an insert kit I was out $75.


----------



## KaizenFlow

I had one pop out after a few shots when the bow was new, fortunately I found it then I read this thread and did the blue Locktite on all the lateral adjustment screws. Haven't lost one since.

People have posted links in this thread to various places to buy the screws. I think you can use slightly longer ones?

Is the spring essential?



YoungMarine said:


> I was replacing one of the m4x12mm lateral limb adjustment set screws today that had fallen out ... Does anyone have an idea for a better replacement for these set screw threads?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YoungMarine

KaizenFlow said:


> I had one pop out after a few shots when the bow was new, fortunately I found it then I read this thread and did the blue Locktite on all the lateral adjustment screws. Haven't lost one since.
> 
> People have posted links in this thread to various places to buy the screws. I think you can use slightly longer ones?
> 
> Is the spring essential?


The “spring”/helicoil that came out is what acts as threads inside the riser and holds the set screw in and keeps LLA where you want it. Until I get a replacement in there the riser cannot be used as the ilf pocket will not stay aligned. Since I have to fix it, I’d prefer a fix that would be better as we know the stock hardware in these risers is inadequate. The riser had already been upgraded to longer 12mm set screws as I purchased it used from a member here. The length of the “spring”/helicoil that sits inside the riser is only like 4mm so a 12mm set screw is actually unnecessary as the majority of it is not catching threads at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m60gunner

Hmmm.. maybe I try and tap the riser and epoxy in an insert? Just have to be real careful about to much glue. Sounds like an after holidays project.


----------



## YoungMarine

I ordered an ez-lok 4mm threaded insert kit and the diameter of inserts looks too large to drill and use with this riser. I guess that is why they resorted to using smaller diameter helicoil-type insert at the factory. I will have to exchange for that kit now.


----------



## pipcount

Re my earlier discussion on Lateral Limb Adjustments: Besides fact that the dovetail seems a bit out of place on riser, turns out my UUKHA VX+ XL (72") limbs had a twist themselves. So part of the reason I had such a extreme offset on my channel was because I unwittingly was compensating for the limb twist. Limbs undergoing Warranty return process now.

I could not get the darn thing to shoot well, although I thought it was me until I got on a Bear C riser and ... groups improved ~50%.

I am wondering if ILF is too hard for me, too many items to track and consider. Having a lot of fun with Bear risers. Not as good looking, nor are limbs "high tech", but they work very well and are simple. Less for me to screw up.


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## m60gunner

I have replaced all those lateral adjustment screws with real steel ones. I have a set of SF extremes on my riser. It shoots great with those limbs or my TT lombs


----------



## thebatman

Going to resurrect an old(ish) thread.

Folks that have had this riser for some time - is it still worth getting? 

Would anyone know what the max poundage rating the WFL is rated to?


----------



## c_m_shooter

Yes, it is a nice riser. Don't know max poundage because I bought mine used with no manual. My 21" scales 32#@28 with Hoyt Long 26# limbs and the bolts 1 turn from bottomed out.


----------



## booner05

Anyone know what the differences between 19" lark and the firefinch and starling are? Is it just color? It would be nice if there were bushings for quiver or something


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## Jim Casto Jr

Don't know for sure, but it looks like the Essential is the same layup as the Lark save for the open limb pockets. The Firefinch and Starling have the same open limb pockets but also have a "swirl" lamination in the riser--very attractive. I can't believe they can sell them at the prices they do.


----------



## thebatman

I'm looking for a wood ilf riser that is more natural in color. It's a shame the Tradtech Pinnacle went out if production, as that would have been perfect!

I've seen a cheap wood ILF riser called the Oakridge Shade. Looks like it might be a generic Chinese one. Anyone had experience with this riser?


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## dave z

I had a white feather it seemed identical to tradtech black magic but in 19" cant beat it for the money.


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## biblethumpncop

I was interested in the 23" riser in 2019 when the pre-orders were being taken. I held off and when I saw several people receiving the riser and reporting the riser had an aggressive pocket angle and the lack of deflex. I read through all 11 pages of posts today and something caught my eye.

Does the 21" riser have a less aggressive pocket angle or more deflex than the 23" riser? I have a 31" draw length and am considering getting a Lark again for the occasional 3-D and not take my Sky Conquest or Mybo Wave. I don't know if a shorter 21" riser with more deflex and a less aggressive pocket angle would be more pleasant to shoot than a 23" riser with less deflex and a more aggressive pocket angle? Or does the 21" riser have the same amount of deflex and pocket angle? Would a set of Border 6S Long 36# limbs give me the same draw weight on the 21" vs 23" Lark riser. Traditional thinking would say a 21" riser should be 2# heavier than a 23" riser due to the shorter length.


----------



## biblethumpncop

Anyone know?


----------



## Isilean

thebatman said:


> I'm looking for a wood ilf riser that is more natural in color. It's a shame the Tradtech Pinnacle went out if production, as that would have been perfect!
> 
> I've seen a cheap wood ILF riser called the Oakridge Shade. Looks like it might be a generic Chinese one. Anyone had experience with this riser?


Not sure if this is still relevant to you. I had the Oakridge Shade Kobicha. I don't know where it was manufactured but it was very well made, very solid. It has a wider grip than the Lark and is a bit heavier. 

I believe it the same as this riser: https://www.3riversarchery.com/fleetwood-hunter-ilf-recurve-riser.html 

Roger


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## Budlight12

Nope


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## Jim Casto Jr

I'm sure that isn't the same riser. This 17" one, however, sold by October Mountain Products looks to be made by the same folks that make the WFL.


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## Isilean

I was referring to the Oak Ridge Shade looking the same as the Fleetwood, not the White Feather Lark.


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## JRT51

I think the WFL Essential is the same as the OMP Sektor. I have the Sektor in a 15" , nice riser with interchangeable LLA screws as the WFL and has the open limb pockets.


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## woodsmansfinest

Got one in 19". Stippled the grip. Cut past center and great weight. The by far best riser for the components, design, materials and looks for the money there is right now. Full recommendation!


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## pipcount

*23" Lark cut past center- modification*

Here is a Lark cut past center. I shoot limbs <30# so have no fears on strength or stability. Using "Arrow Hand-Rubbed Oil Finish," this stuff does a beautiful finish, but can take weeks. I should be able to shoot in 14-21 days. 























I had a bad set of limbs on my first experience with Lark, seriously twisted. I adjusted the LLA to make them work, not realizing they were the issue, thinking it was a weird setting of LLA on Lark riser. I had almost given up on ILF, and a shame as I think the Larks are seriously gorgeous bows. Was planning to move to Bear takedowns exclusively- but hurt my shoulder shooting other folks bows that were way to hard for me... and had to go back to my ILF rig at a lower weight until I could feel good again. That was a good move, forced me to figure out my ILF issues, one thing at a time. Got much better on my light rig over last few months, consistency has about doubled on a good day. Mainly improved my arrow selection and did paper tuning instead of charts, picked better spine, set nockin g point better, improved fletching, fit nocks to string more loosely, worked on brace height for quiet, and then recheck and do again... 

Got my UUKHA VX+ XL back a few weeks ago, did not even set up on riser, just listed for sale on forum. NO takers, too expensive and too light I suppose... so this weekend figured heck, lets set er up and see if things are better now. Was fun, this is a dream rig even at 31.5" draw. So- modification time!

Will take better photos with a real camera in a few weeks after I get 14 or so coats of finish on the darn thing.

If anyone wants a 17" or 19" Lark let me know. 23" is as small as I can go, wife wont shift from her rig, nor my daughter. LLA replaced with 12mm screws included standard. That is only thing I have heard being a recurring issue that I recall. 

Regards, Pipcount


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## pipcount

Lesson learned: Houston is too humid an environment to use "Arrow hand rubbed oil finish" without LONG dry times. Even in my air conditioned living room, 50% humidity, 75F, as a drying area it simply took forever per coat- and yes, I put on extremely thin coats, and even used a soft cloth to wipe off riser after coating figuring "get it lighter." After three coats and ~ one month I gave up and tried putting Tru Oil over the Arrow finish- figure this is a risk, as directions are strip old finish and apply. But- it seems to work. Very shiny, finish seems ok. I might later knock it down to a semi gloss with 000 steel wool. A friend I was shooting with thought the cut in and refinish were original/standard, and did not understand what I was saying to him while showing "I cut this in here" first few times. So, aesthetically it seems to have turned out well.

Functional results of center shot experiment on Lark must be considered a success. Easy tune- took only a few iterations to get to "about right" on string length/brace height, then arrow spine. Quiet with no string dampening whatsoever. Very repeatable groups. Seems pretty forgiving of spine choice as most centershot risers are. 

I set up this weekend as a "try first" bow for a friend who has been shooting with me for last three months at once/month, 29" draw, long limbs make a perfect 68" bow for him. He wanted a wood riser... after shooting he decided "What a lark! I gotta get one." For a newbie set up at 20# on fingertips, three under. We were shooting at 15 yards, he was typically able to get 8" groups, quite an athlete for only shooting three times now. 

I don't know how you might judge what this does to the strength of the riser, but to me it appears the Larks have a VERY thick wood section on the sight window. I took off ~3/16" and use a Hoyt Super Rest. Still a very beefy cross section compared to my Bear risers, and the phenolic should add some real strength. What I told my friend "I expect these risers were built to handle limbs up to ~70#... I would not worry up to about 45#, and if you are doing this for having fun target shooting at ranges from 10-35 yds barebow you really wont need to go past 3540# anyway.. if you get serious you will get a different riser."

Why I cared enough to do this: All my other risers are highly center shot cut... I simply am used to it, expect it. I want to set up my arrows to be just BARELY past center, then I can move around a bit on bows and get roughly predictable results. I will never be a great shooter- I never shoot same bow from week to week. But I have fun! If you are visiting NW Houston drop by, I will burn some steak for you at the range.

New idea I had this weekend, might help others: If you are using a hoyt super rest: Buy the black ones and use magic marker to black the adhesive pad edges. Vastly better appearance!


----------



## aluminated

White and black are ok, but I have dyed mine to match on a couple of bows.

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1108058223#/topics/5461205?page=1

I also tend to dispense with the provided foam mounting tape and just use Shoe Goo or Amazing Goop to secure the rest as close to center as I can get it. These glues tend to stay on until you want them off.


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## grantmac

What tools did you use to cut it past center? I was thinking a small air powered belt sander.


----------



## pipcount

Aluminated- Dyeing a rest is an awesome idea. I read this a couple days ago, thought on it a lot, looked at the current black one. Given front of bow is black phenolic, not going to worry about it on this bow. On an all wood riser you might see me follow your path!

Grantmac- Table saw with a slide I built for precision cuts. Put riser on slide to keep it square, then simply move a bit per cut until I had a channel. Then rasp, file, sand. Next one (Bear B riser) is going to be done differently- Might do a smaller overall inletting at 1/16-1/8 across the sight window, then custom cut another inlet shaped for a hoyt style super rest about 1/32-1/16" using my milling machine. That should leave more material and increase strength in riser, and hide the rest a bit as well. Combined with using Aluminated's shoe goo, and skinny arrows, I might get to center cut without much material removal on riser sight window. My goal is to have arrow ~1/32" past center on the little tab, and rest surface just the slightest bit past the surface of the wood so if arrow "bangs" on something it hits rest surface and not the wood. My friends new Lark shipped today from Alternativess, so I will likely do both the new Lark and my Bear B riser next weekend. The Lark riser is so thick I dont think I will worry about the inletting sized to super rest, but the Bear riser is pretty slim. 
Wish me luck!


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## webrehm

The oakridge riser at 3 rivers looks really nice. I think it may work well for my wife.


----------



## webrehm

One of these risers is surely in my future


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## Mkdxmzx

Very nice bow


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## Mkdxmzx

I think I will order one. Thanks!


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## Mkdxmzx

Very informative thread


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## aluminated

Mkdxmzx said:


> Very informative thread


Did you get your 20? Empty posts are not appreciated. How about contributing something to the community?


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## Dalay

Ahoy everybody, and happy new year! 
I just bought a WFL 19". First TD ever. I don't know how to use the ILF system. I mean, how I can put more or less power at the limbs? 
I'm going to buy the Oak Ridge CF limbs. Just the cheaper CF I found here around me, 100€. But, in one shop they say the libbre are for a 19" riser and another say is refer to a 25"... So, i don't know what to order... Someone have a suggestion? 
Thanks!


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## Jim Casto Jr

Look at the sticker on the limbs. It will say something like: 17H, 19H, 21H or 25H. The number is the length riser limbs are rated for.

Oak Ridge limbs are rated on a 19" riser.


----------



## Dalay

Thanks Jim! I can't have a close look of the limbs, but if you confirm OR limbs are usually related to 19" risers, I'm ready to go


----------



## c_m_shooter

I have a 21" Lark riser. The Hoyt limbs I have on it are rated 26# on a 25". They scale 32# at 28" on the Lark.


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

Limb pad angle plays a roll in how much weight gain there is from riser to riser. My 23" WFL has a steeper angle and limbs weigh heavier on it than they would on other 23" risers.


----------



## m60gunner

I just looked at this thread agian. I have the 21” riser. The riser mod caught my attention. I wonder if I could do that same mod using a milling machine. We have one In our club woodshop. Would be less trouble to setup than our CNC machine. Last time I did a mod on a Bear SK I used a Japanese saw. Lowered the shelf to top of my hand.


----------



## thebatman

Still not bought a WFL yet, but looking to get back into archery due to a long hiatus (thanks covid-19!)

I have a set of medium TT Blackmax 2.0 wood/glass marked 45# (I think they are based on the 17" riser?)

My questions for other WFL owners are;

- On the WFL 19" riser, what are these limbs likely to scale?

- I have the limbs paired with a 19" Titan riser. So you think the bow length should be similar enough that I could use the same string on the WFL?

- Previous posts mention some mod fixes required like gluing in set screws etc. Are these riser still worth getting?

Many thanks.
tbm


----------



## JRT51

The set screws can come loose , if you get a riser and lose the screws let me know , I have 40 of them and can spare a few for the cost of a stamp. They are nice risers , I have others I shoot more but would not hesitate to buy one if it was my choice. Good value. I found the limbs I put on it ran pretty close to advertised weight so you should hit a little under 45. 45 may actually be within the range of adjustment.


----------



## Silver Badger

Got a 19" Lark Essential due by the end of the week. Plan to put on 35# Black Max 2.0 longs. Been running them on a 19" Trident and they pull right at 35# with the bolts in. Interested to see how close they will be on the Lark. I've heard nothing but great things about this riser for $150.00 shipped from England.


----------



## cheeney

Silver Badger,
Did you get your riser setup yet? I got my 19 inch WFL from the UK just a couple of weeks ago. Arrived in 4 days after ordering it, that is nuts, don't know how they do that so fast. I ordered the Essential also, I actually liked the simpler looks of it better (and cheaper), and it looked just like the 17 inch OMP Sektor I just sold. They are the exact same riser. Nothing was wrong with the Sektor, I just prefer a longer bow. My 19 inch riser and long longbow limbs make 64 inches. This riser makes the perfect ILF longbow rig, like it much better with the longbow limbs rather than my recurve limbs. My 40 pound DAS limbs hit 40 pounds exactly at my 28 inch draw with the limb bolts backed out half a turn. This will be my primary hunting bow. Here are some photos. Incredibly happy with it for the price.


----------



## Silver Badger

This is an awesome riser for $150.00 shipped...........From England! The grip is spot on every time I grab it. It's got just the right amount of heft and it's dead in the hand. I like the trimmed down look of the Essential. I best describe it as a beefed up, well built, really smoothed out Samick Sage Elite with ILF fittings.
Alt Services can't keep these in stock.


----------



## YoungMarine

Hopefully they have fixed some of the issues with these risers, but be advised you may get what you pay for. I found they used helicoils of insufficient length that barely hold the LLA screws in place (bought a kit and replaced these along with screws that were lost). My riser also developed a cosmetic crack from where the limbs contacted riser (drawing less than 50lbs). In fairness, I have also seen cracking on expensive Border risers so that could just be a thing to expect with wood ILF risers. This riser did shoot and feel nice, but I have come to prefer metal risers for ILF applications with all the hardware they require. If I want a wood riser, I'd go the traditional bolt down route.


----------



## pipcount

I have put the ILF Longbow limbs back on my 23" recently. You might ask "why"? I had heard longbows were more forgiving of errors, and I am still making some. I specifically think I have a tendency to twist the string at my anchor, and longbow are said to be more forgiving of that error. If I get more accurate with longbow, might be able to tell me something about my shooting. I should find a coach.... 

So, to test if this is occuring I plan to shoot longbow for a bit and see if I do better side by side with one or the other. Should be able to tell in a month or so. So far I like the longbow, did in past but put up and forgot about it for a year or two. It seems more forgiving of my errors, but I need to tune the darn thing in, no way it should be so noisy for me. Gotta experiment with the brace and arrows. 

Any suggestions on good brace for a 68" longbow on ILF with Lark and a 31" draw? I am at ~8" now and man does it hum. Cheap Bosen limbs for experimenting.

My wife, with her 26" draw, shooting same limbs/riser finds it very quiet, and she is shooting this WAY better than her recurve so far. I may lose this setup to her.


----------



## m60gunner

My riser has developed a crack in the shelf area. Really not concerned as there are multiple laminations . But I could probably not sell it if I was so inclined . My arrows are within 9gpi some 10 so it’s not from shooting to light an arrow. My guess is change in climate, ours is very dry 99% of the time.


----------



## pipcount

Other than limb adjustment screws I have had no issues on any of my Lark risers. I currently have two 23", and a 19", have sold off the 17"/21"... tons of them, all bombproof for me in Houston. Oh, and I have a friend here that I set up on a Lark- he loves it. I suspect if we looked at any large group of wood riser sales we maybe would find cracks in them- I have a 21" Border with a crack down to handle from the plunger button. Shoots fine though!


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## Jeffro83

I’ve been looking for one of these for a while now and alternative services is sold out and has been for a while trying to find a 19 inch right hand if anybody has one let me know


----------



## Jim Casto Jr

Jeffro83 said:


> I’ve been looking for one of these for a while now and alternative services is sold out and has been for a while trying to find a 19 inch right hand if anybody has one let me know


Alternative has the 19" Essential in stock. It looks to me like it's the same riser but without the enclosed limb pockets and it costs less. Silver Badger here just got one and he's thrilled with it. Might be worth taking a look at it.


----------



## Silver Badger

The Lark Essential is a keeper. The grip is spot on every time I grab it.
The Essential does not have the carbon ribbon and weighs about an ounce less.
It's a gorgeous riser and has just the right amount of heft.


----------



## cheeney

I have the 19 inch WFL Essential as well, showed up 4 days after I ordered it. You can see my pictures of it up in post #288. Compared to the pictures I have seeen of the other White Feather Lark, it seems the Essential is stained a darker color (which I like), and does not have a red accent stripe of course.


----------



## Jeffro83

Thanks guys. I definitely appreciate the input. I will check it out first thing tomorrow. I do like the look of the enclosed limb pockets. But I think I like it better without the carbon and the darker stain definitely looks better.


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## pipcount

Update on using ILF longbow lmbs on 23" lark: Plan on cranking down your limb bolts. I have mine cranked down until to point there are only 3 threads left for the lock screw to grab. This makes limbs more linear along the bow, like a real longbow. Prior to this I was struggling with the bow being very noisy , after it is ok, and shorter brace. I may put in a spacer under limb bolt and try to get another 1/16-1/8" down.

I have shot some of my best groups EVER out of the longbow, enjoying a lot. Switched to three under at the same time, sure that is part of it...


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## thebatman

Recent Lark owners, does the riser come with shelf rest material or side plate, or do you have to supply these yourselves?

Also, I take it these didn't come with instructions. Any idea on what the minimum arrow GPP might be?

Cheers


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## pipcount

None of mine came with anything other than hex / allen wrenches and a riser bag. I cannot even recall a pamphlet/manual/guide at all, but it has been a while. 
Re- GPP, no idea whatsoever.


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## thebatman

One thing that I'm concerned about is the side shelf position. Reading previous posts the side wall is pretty much at zero as is, maybe even further out once velcro is applied.

I wanted to use the same arrow setup I use on my Titan III, but I think the arrows will be too stiff now on this riser. What do you think?

45lb limbs, 28 inch draw, 30" GT Trads 500 spine with 125gr points.


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## JRT51

You may have to add a bit of weight to the tip. That is not far from what I shoot but my riser is cut well past center.


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## thebatman

I use the same arrows on a 50lb longbow, but with 200gr points as the arrows point left a fair bit. (For a RH shooter)

Shame the WFL isn't cut more past centre, as then I could use my preferred arrow setup. Guess they do this for strength though.


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## JRT51

Brings up an interesting question. While the adjustment may not be extreme , can the LLA screws be used to modify the amount of centercut?


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## pipcount

Using LLA to offset limbs from centerline seems like an odd path to me, you would get sideways push from string on arrow.. might end up with a very sensitive bow. 

Alternatively, since I shoot lightweight limbs, I have cut into my risers another 1/8" to get past center as on all my other bows. Worked great for me. But I limit to 35# max on fingertips. Some others here have also cut in and had good luck, not sure what weights they shot.

Probably simplest to just use a different arrow spine or more tip weight. Few bows from 70's were cut past center, and they shot fine.


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## JRT51

Doesn't increasing or decreasing the sideplate material do the same thing?


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## thebatman

Well, personally I would not take a rasp file to a pretty wood riser.

Not really what I'd prefer, but the solution would be as stated to add more tip weight to weaken the arrow, or maybe fully bottom out the limb bolts to up the poundage.  Changing the brace height may also possibly affect dynamic spine?


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## pipcount

Has anyone checked out the "Galaxy Saturn?" This looks to me like the 19" White Feather Lark with maybe a few light modifications. 

The only issue I have ever experienced with Lark was that the Lateral Limb Adjustment (LLA) screws would work loose. In the pics for this Saturn riser the pocket holding the ILF fitting is slightly different than on Lark, and it looks as though the LLA screws maybe have been changed to include a locking mechanism. 

Anyone here try one and able to comment? 









Galaxy Saturn Recurve Riser


Hand crafted wooden handle ILF riser Beautiful Black back with Black dymondwood face Red highlight runs length of riser Lateral limb adjustments for ease of tuning and perfect alignment Built for speed riser makes a great 3D or bowhunting bow Length: 19" Builds a 60, 62, or 64" bow with short...




www.lancasterarchery.com


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## smokie999

pipcount said:


> As Hunter Dave notes- these Lark are truly gorgeous risers, I think they are as pretty as anything I have seen in ILF rigs, at any price. The design is "just right" for my tastes.
> 
> I am getting two of the 21" versions for wife and daughter. Might take one and sand down the matte finish, fill pores carefully, put on a high gloss. I suspect with high gloss these would be really striking.


Did you ever do this l would love to see the pics as l am thinking about doing the same.


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## c_m_shooter

The White Feather looks and shoots way above its pricepoint. I just picked up a set of Stalker limbs on the classifieds. Was at the shop last night, had a string made, had adjusted the brace and tiller, and shot a few arrows. One guy asked me if that was a Bob Lee I was shooting. I tried not to laugh at him.


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## pipcount

smokie, did not. Too darn many projects and bows. I did relieve the sight window an extra 1/8" on one, that worked out great for me. I shoot very light limbs on mine though.


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