# 3rd axis



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

I have checked it over and over. My groups still be to one side on the longer shots. Got to be an aiming thing. I may just have to compensate for it at the shoots and move my sight.
DB

Field stuff getting be alot like work.:tongue:


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## Po_Boy (Jun 3, 2006)

What angle are you shooting at and at what distance?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Flat ground*



Po_Boy said:


> What angle are you shooting at and at what distance?



Out to 80yards. 
DB


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Sounds like your rest could be in or out to far.....

A bare shaft at 50 yards can tell you this if your rest is right it will hit in line with your fletched arrows but lower cause you are shooting a Mathews which has a nock high setup..

I tried this at 80yards cause I used to always miss my long shots to the right but the paper said my arrow flight was good but a bare shaft also hit to the right(of my fletched arrows) so I got the bare shaft to hit in line with my fletched arrows and now I miss to the left and the right about the same amount.....


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## tabarch (Sep 20, 2006)

X hunter said:


> Sounds like your rest could be in or out to far.....
> 
> A bare shaft at 50 yards can tell you this if your rest is right it will hit in line with your fletched arrows but lower cause you are shooting a Mathews which has a nock high setup..
> 
> I tried this at 80yards cause I used to always miss my long shots to the right but the paper said my arrow flight was good but a bare shaft also hit to the right(of my fletched arrows) so I got the bare shaft to hit in line with my fletched arrows and now I miss to the left and the right about the same amount.....


Brad what are you talking about?I have seen you shot and you don't miss so how would you know.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Use the Bowplane tool for centershot.*



X hunter said:


> Sounds like your rest could be in or out to far.....
> 
> A bare shaft at 50 yards can tell you this if your rest is right it will hit in line with your fletched arrows but lower cause you are shooting a Mathews which has a nock high setup..
> 
> I tried this at 80yards cause I used to always miss my long shots to the right but the paper said my arrow flight was good but a bare shaft also hit to the right(of my fletched arrows) so I got the bare shaft to hit in line with my fletched arrows and now I miss to the left and the right about the same amount.....


Just limited on time. Shooting Sunday. Need a good calm day to get fine tuned. I have not bareshaft tuned for many years. Thanks for the advise.
DB


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

tabarch said:


> Brad what are you talking about?I have seen you shot and you don't miss so how would you know.


Trust me I MISS not much to some but to much for me so Ive still got some work to do!!!


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Daniel Boone said:


> Just limited on time. Shooting Sunday. Need a good calm day to get fine tuned. I have not bareshaft tuned for many years. Thanks for the advise.
> DB


Its deffinatly old school but trust me it still works!!!!!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Just like Xhunter said...it's your rest not your sight.

You don't need a super calm day to fix it either. Go to 50 or 60 yds...and shot a group. Look at your group if the shots radiate out to the left move your sight one click to the right....move your rest to the left if the group goes out the right side. 

Repeat until the arrows get tighter and stop flying out to one side or the other. Of course if you are getting fliers then it may be that your draw is off a twist...but I am pretty sure you are ok on your draw since you don't change your gear to much....


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

X hunter said:


> Trust me I MISS not much to some but to much for me so Ive still got some work to do!!!


I saw it this past weekend....he shot TERRIBLE......only managed a 548 on a field round....ukey:ukey: Any more of that crap and we'll not let you hang around with us anymore. 

The fact that you just installed new strings and they were stretching like a BEEEG dog didn't have anything to do with it either...........


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Ron Meadows said:


> I saw it this past weekend....he shot TERRIBLE......only managed a 548 on a field round....ukey:ukey: Any more of that crap and we'll not let you hang around with us anymore.
> 
> The fact that you just installed new strings and they were stretching like a BEEEG dog didn't have anything to do with it either...........


Sounds like someone needs a new string maker to me:zip:


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> Sounds like someone needs a new string maker to me:zip:


He has good strings but with the voodoo tune he puts on that Conquest III he just twists them up WAY too much then they settle in some. I asked him why he just didn't get shorter strings and he gave me the "deer in the headlight" look.....it was priceless!!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Dan,
At which distance for outdoor shooting did you set your peep height? If you're using the SAME peep height that you shot indoors at 20 yards, then THAT may be your problem....as in, a FLOATING ANCHOR as the distance increases.

The "average" distance on a field/hunter round is around 45 yards; therefore it is wise to set your peep height for a solid anchor...at 45 yards. This makes for a tight anchor up close, and a good, solid, and repeatable anchor at the longer distances.

If you are using your 20 yard, or even a 30 yard peep height...this causes you anchor to be floating too much at longer distances and can give you fits with left/right (and SOME high/low) shots.

I don't think it is related to THIRD axis at all...but could be your 2nd axis as well....

Try setting your peep height at 45 or even 50 yards so that you are solidly anchored and centered in the peep....AGAIN, however, be aware that your bunny and 15, 20 yarder anchor will be a bit tight.

In MY case, my peep height is LOWERED about 2 mm. when I change from indoors to outdoors...some people's is more than that....

I know you tune your bows well...so I wouldn't think it was your arrow rest...unless those misses are getting wider and wild at distance....But I'd sure check that peep height idea before "de-tuning" things....This will NOT change the cast of the bow...so you should be able to use the indexer (marker) to correct for the change in peep height...>BUT...you may have to run a new site tape due to the change in gap between center of arrow and peep at full draw...to get those bunny ones back on...

I normally SHOOT IN the bunnies anyways...to be sure! hahaha. NEVER trust the computer fully to do ANYTHING for me....I always have a backup plan and USE IT!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## boojo35 (Jul 16, 2005)

Actually it can be the sight..... If the vertical bar that the elevation is adjusted on is not truly level and perfectly upright you will slightly change your windage as you change your yardage..... For instance, when you adjust your sight downward you can be moving it slighty to the side....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Problem*

I'm thinking I'm letting my bubble drift off target as I release. Bubble is having a tendency to go left as I shoot for whatever reason.

Heres my groups tonight at 60yrds. Just going to have to use better form and pay more attention to the bubble. 

Realize today was very windy so groups are larger than normal. Shooting a lens for the first time in awhile. Seeing more movement of pin than normal. Maybe concentrating more on pin than bubble. Sure going to make that .29 pin with no lens hold rock solid for 3d :wink:


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Ron Meadows said:


> I saw it this past weekend....he shot TERRIBLE......only managed a 548 on a field round....ukey:ukey: Any more of that crap and we'll not let you hang around with us anymore.
> 
> The fact that you just installed new strings and they were stretching like a BEEEG dog didn't have anything to do with it either...........


I wouldnt call a 1/64" a as yoou say BEEEG dog :set1_thinking:

I believe it came down more to a mass weight issue... Too much weight out in front....

What 175+ twists in a string is alot????:tongue:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Dan you can check your center shot indoors at 20 yards if you want... not as accurate as group tuning at 60 and 80 but still better than a laser... Bubble going left could be a little push and roll of the bow shoulder..


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Mike*



JAVI said:


> Dan you can check your center shot indoors at 20 yards if you want... not as accurate as group tuning at 60 and 80 but still better than a laser... Bubble going left could be a little push and roll of the bow shoulder..



I garantee the laser I use works. Bowplane flat makes center shot very easy to find. Dean has also found this to be true as well along with many. Just going to go shoot and stop stressing about it. Good form and shot excution.
My groups dont expand untell I get out of my comfort zone of 50yrds. Im sure the pressure at the field shoot might be a challenge. Just going to go and have fun. If I practice field more I think I would find a comfort zone eventually on these long shots.

DB


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Dan there isn't a laser that can find the dynamic center shot of a bow... even how the loop slides off the release will affect the string path... how is a static laser going to see this...?

lasers like you use have merit but they can't replace group tuning... for setting a rest.


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Daniel Boone said:


> I garantee the laser I use works. Bowplane flat makes center shot very easy to find. Dean has also found this to be true as well along with many. Just going to go shoot and stop stressing about it. Good form and shot excution.
> *My groups dont expand untell I get out of my comfort zone of 50yrds*. Im sure the pressure at the field shoot might be a challenge. Just going to go and have fun. If I practice field more I think I would find a comfort zone eventually on these long shots.
> 
> DB


This is why your struggling IMO you feel as though the shots are probably gonna miss before you ever fire the bow....( saying this as a former hardcore 3D shooter myself) If you can creat a positive mental image such as your arrow hitting the X at 60,70,80 yards and trust your shot routine and allow yourself to relax you will find yourself hitting the spot more and more......

Well thats what worked for me on upping my field scores..... Last year I had the attitude of I hope I 20 this long target and now I walk up to a long target knowing the bow and I both have the potential to 20 the target so I just need to remember to form out and let the bow do its job...


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*You hitting the nail on the head*



X hunter said:


> This is why your struggling IMO you feel as though the shots are probably gonna miss before you ever fire the bow....( saying this as a former hardcore 3D shooter myself) If you can creat a positive mental image such as your arrow hitting the X at 60,70,80 yards and trust your shot routine and allow yourself to relax you will find yourself hitting the spot more and more......
> 
> Well thats what worked for me on upping my field scores..... Last year I had the attitude of I hope I 20 this long target and now I walk up to a long target knowing the bow and I both have the potential to 20 the target so I just need to remember to form out and let the bow do its job...


I can feel the anticipation build as I preload my release to fire. Its diffiantly not in my comfort zone yet. Seeing the pin having movement with the lens is creating some disstraction, need to trust that pin movement. Not use to pin movement with no lens and .29 fiber for 3d. Very comfortable in 3d knowing where the 10ring and 12 are on each target. 900 rounds I use the tru spot type lens. Thanks for the tips. Everything takes practice and being comfortable.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*I agree with that*



JAVI said:


> Dan there isn't a laser that can find the dynamic center shot of a bow... even how the loop slides off the release will affect the string path... how is a static laser going to see this...?
> 
> lasers like you use have merit but they can't replace group tuning... for setting a rest.


I do group tune at close yardages. Busting nocks at 20yrds, not sure what your asking. Groups are pretty good up to fifty yards. Staying in the black.
Getting use to pin movement with lens has me out of my comfort zone and most likely is effecting my shooting.
DB


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> I do group tune at close yardages. Busting nocks at 20yrds, not sure what your asking. Groups are pretty good up to fifty yards. Staying in the black.
> Getting use to pin movement with lens has me out of my comfort zone and most likely is effecting my shooting.
> DB


Dan I'll call you this afternoon after I get off work and explain.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Dan I don't care if that lazer gets your center shot right.....a lazer can't fine tune it for YOU. Just looking at your targets....you need to move your rest.

Trust your shot....stop staring at your bubble and focus on the spot and make a strong shot. I look at my bubble once I get to anchor and settle on the target then don't look at it again.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Hornet*



Brown Hornet said:


> Dan I don't care if that lazer gets your center shot right.....a lazer can't fine tune it for YOU. Just looking at your targets....you need to move your rest.
> 
> Trust your shot....stop staring at your bubble and focus on the spot and make a strong shot. I look at my bubble once I get to anchor and settle on the target then don't look at it again.


Notice the first group I shot. Its centered. It me not making a strong shot. 
As Im making my pull Im letting the bow cant to the right and causing the shot to be off centered. Bubble seems to me it has to be centered on those longer shots. I feel one has to keep the bow balanced straight up and down to get a strong shot. Like I said right now Im out of my comfort zone on those longer shots. 
DB


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Daniel Boone said:


> Notice the first group I shot. Its centered. It me not making a strong shot.
> As Im making my pull Im letting the bow cant to the right and causing the shot to be off centered. Bubble seems to me it has to be centered on those longer shots. I feel one has to keep the bow balanced straight up and down to get a strong shot. Like I said right now Im out of my comfort zone on those longer shots.
> DB


Dan,
You CAN adjust your bubble to YOUR NATURAL CANT. Many experienced shooters, Frank Pearson among those will adjust their bubble/site bar to allow for the "natural cant" they put onto the bow. Natural cant is an age-old problem with easy solutions. SOME people can learn to hold the bow dead level with everything "dead Level", while others cannot do this...so they adjust the site bar for it and go with what it natural for them to do..and IT WORKS TOO!

Talk with Dean Pridgen about this, I'm sure he knows about how to do this and will walk you through it.

Also, again...check your peep height...you could be floating the anchor on long distances just enough to cause this.

field14:wink::tongue:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Im well aware of that*



field14 said:


> Dan,
> You CAN adjust your bubble to YOUR NATURAL CANT. Many experienced shooters, Frank Pearson among those will adjust their bubble/site bar to allow for the "natural cant" they put onto the bow. Natural cant is an age-old problem with easy solutions. SOME people can learn to hold the bow dead level with everything "dead Level", while others cannot do this...so they adjust the site bar for it and go with what it natural for them to do..and IT WORKS TOO!
> 
> Talk with Dean Pridgen about this, I'm sure he knows about how to do this and will walk you through it.
> ...



I think I just have to adjust me!:tongue: Stop letting the bow lean just before the shot. Have done this in 3d and my buddys notice it from time to time as well. But I will most likely cant my bow if the shoots tend to hit right or left. But I might click and move it back. Just wish the wind would lay some so I can get some good practice in. This field events donw in the woods so wind shouldnt be a big factor.
DB


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Daniel Boone said:


> Notice the first group I shot. Its centered. It me not making a strong shot.
> As Im making my pull Im letting the bow cant to the right and causing the shot to be off centered. Bubble seems to me it has to be centered on those longer shots. I feel one has to keep the bow balanced straight up and down to get a strong shot. Like I said right now Im out of my comfort zone on those longer shots.
> DB


You keep thinking that is all it is then....trust in the laser


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Hornet*



Brown Hornet said:


> You keep thinking that is all it is then....trust in the laser



If I move my sight. Ill be off at 40 and 50.:wink: Shot enough groups to know that. Often times its the simple things that can cause you to miss. Im pretty good at tuning. Realize if I was going to shoot field more, I would go right to Pridgean and get a field bow set up. I have watch Dean tune plenty of bows. 

If your getting groups like this at 40 and little larger groups at 50. Your bows tuned pretty good. I just hoping to shoot around 525 and not embarrass myself in money class and who knows I might have a good day and place. Most of all Im looking to have a good time. :wink: Thanks for the advice. DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Bowplane lazer*

Funny thing is I can set this thing on a top shooters bow. It is inline evertime. Not saying you have to use the lazer. Im saying it dont lie.

Some tell me you can be off centershot and shoot good groups. All I know is the guys shooting top scores the bows are in centershot alighnment with the Bowplane. Pridgean really likes this tool as well and say it saves time and works.
DB


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Daniel Boone said:


> If I move my sight. Ill be off at 40 and 50.:wink: Shot enough groups to know that. Often times its the simple things that can cause you to miss. Im pretty good at tuning. Realize if I was going to shoot field more, I would go right to Pridgean and get a field bow set up. I have watch Dean tune plenty of bows.
> 
> If your getting groups like this at 40 and little larger groups at 50. Your bows tuned pretty good. I just hoping to shoot around 525 and not embarrass myself in money class and who knows I might have a good day and place. Most of all Im looking to have a good time. :wink: Thanks for the advice. DB


Forget the sight.....it isn't that hard to ONE or TWO CLICKs to your rest to see if it get's tighter....or stops giving you the right groups you are getting.....

If you can "go straight to Dean".....then why ask here:embara:


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## keb73 (Oct 15, 2003)

..I am having the exact same problem...Arrows going out right at 65 yards...I also think it's the bubble and me having a cant to the right...The reason I say this is because I will have basically two groups,one in the middle or close,and the other out right a good bit...It is aggravating the crap out of me...

...Field..I have thought hard about setting the bubble to my cant but am stubborn and trying to work through it....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Cant go by the old man*



Brown Hornet said:


> Forget the sight.....it isn't that hard to ONE or TWO CLICKs to your rest to see if it get's tighter....or stops giving you the right groups you are getting.....
> 
> If you can "go straight to Dean".....then why ask here:embara:



He still uses the same tuning techniques he used 20yrs ago. He still usses monfilament serving thread:tongue:! High wrist stuff. Says we make this tuning way to hard. I was shock when he started using one of those fancy Bowplane tools.:wink: Fact is I did move my rest. It did move my group at 40yrds. It did effect my paper tear. Im always wanting to get a second and third opionion. You never know when you get a great idea. Could be just talent and old age thing! Actually thinking about making a trip Friday to tune and shoot but looks like Tornados and thunder storms. Typical Oklahoma.
DB


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Daniel Boone said:


> I can feel the anticipation build as I preload my release to fire. Its diffiantly not in my comfort zone yet. Seeing the pin having movement with the lens is creating some disstraction, need to trust that pin movement. Not use to pin movement with no lens and .29 fiber for 3d. Very comfortable in 3d knowing where the 10ring and 12 are on each target. 900 rounds I use the tru spot type lens. Thanks for the tips. Everything takes practice and being comfortable.
> DB


What youre gong through is exactly what I went through when I first switched over to field and its a typical reaction to the movemnrt you see with the distances your shooting........

Adding weight to the end of the stablizer helped steady me up for the long shots as well as more(alot) weight on the right side of my bow (right handed

Not to mention an arrow with a 12% FOC or better (my current setup is 14.9%)

But the most important thing you gotta do is learn to trust your shot weather its 20 feet or 100 yards!!!!!


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

*center shot*

i set my center shot at 20 feet then at 20 yards then at 80 or 90 yards 
when i get them all to match its set it is that easy make sure the peep height is right to i like to set my peep at 60 yards for nfaa outdoors


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

I noticed you're shooting 22's for field. What grain point? I just added 40 grains to the front of my 3d arrows and i'm amazed at how much better they're grouping past 60 yards. Have you tried your tru spot lens on a field course yet? The wife and I just tried the dual lens and so far we're both liking it. The movement is there but without the dot to chase the shots are alot calmer. If you're losing your level you may need to adjust your side weights some. Another trick to the level is draw into the hill and then level your bow. If you can't get onto that draw your bow normal and give a half bubble into the hill. Try either way and you'll be amazed. I love shooting field but there are alot of little tricks that can help out alot.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Field*



60X said:


> I noticed you're shooting 22's for field. What grain point? I just added 40 grains to the front of my 3d arrows and i'm amazed at how much better they're grouping past 60 yards. Have you tried your tru spot lens on a field course yet? The wife and I just tried the dual lens and so far we're both liking it. The movement is there but without the dot to chase the shots are alot calmer. If you're losing your level you may need to adjust your side weights some. Another trick to the level is draw into the hill and then level your bow. If you can't get onto that draw your bow normal and give a half bubble into the hill. Try either way and you'll be amazed. I love shooting field but there are alot of little tricks that can help out alot.



I agree is a different set up. Just learned the tru spot lens can fit my CR scope. Most likely be shooting a tur spot next year. I use one for 900 rounds. Field requires practice. It challenging. Looking forward to Sunday. Im shooting 100grns in the frnt of my 22 series. About all I can handle shooting 60lbs. I would go smaller diamenter arrows if its get to be something I do more often.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Ready or not Im set*

No lens for me.

Got my 70 and 60 sighted in this morning. 

Im letting these shoulders rest a day or two.

Go shoot a 20 target 3d tommorrow and field Sunday. Hoping for a little breeze of cooler weather. Fat boys sweat.
DB

Thanks for all the advise. Bow seems to be hitting now. Just good form and follow through.


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