# Good Strategy, Cheating or Morals/Ethics?



## rabid (Nov 26, 2008)

bradd7 said:


> Think of the guy in second place to Tiger woods...who probably wins more money overall than Tiger because he is consistent and stress free.


This is a very bad example... Tiger tries to win every tourney he competes in. This is why he is the greatest of all time (GOAT) in golf. The guy hasn't played in nearly a year and still holds the world number one spot in golf by a long shot. 

IMHO, you practice the way you play and play the way you practice. If you do this, then nerves and pressure will mean absolutely nothing when the going gets tough because you already know how to execute the shot and score well when needed.


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## Ravenshorn (Nov 1, 2006)

*To Thine Own Self Be True*

Shoot what you are capable of… nothing more or less. Not exactly very sportsman like is it... to allow others to think they won fair and square, and then turn around and rub it in their face that you could have won if you wanted to? There's nothing like calling a looser a winner just so you can win later and call them a looser again is there? I'd rather go down in defeat anonymously than to be recognized as a false victor over a bunch of sandbaggers. The kind of sand bagger you describe is the lowliest of all athletes. 


Todd McNelly


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## introverted (Jan 2, 2009)

sandbagging?

never thought i'd hear someone say they were doing that in an archery shoot, especially not locally

i LIKE shooting with people who are way better than me, in my first 2 years of shooting as a teen i shot with a target league full of 300 shooters, and in turn, i think it made me a better archer, because in those FIRST two years, i also shot my first 300


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## bigtim (May 26, 2004)

*What pressure?*

there is no pressure other than what you can come up with in your own mind.

guys talking smack
last arrow for high score
everybody watching

i like to work on what i CHOOSE to let "affect" me, rather than be an "effect" of those causes, which doesn't involve sandin' it out, but i'm not to judge bubby, whatever flips your gizzard...i can't help but think you are at least a little uncertain of your decisions though by throwing this post up, ya know?

Hope this helps...


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

I'm not a pro, but I will comment. Whenever I shoot in a shoot, I always perform the best I can on that given day. I like to win, and I have won a few, but I lose a few too. But when I lose scorewise, I'm still a winner because I know, that day, I shot the best I could. 

Sandbaggers don't hold well with me, especially in venues where shooters are divided by classes. (i.e. AA, A, B, etc.). I look at our state results every year. For PSAA, Unl and BH UNL, you jump to AA if you shoot a 585 or better. All season before the state shoot, you'll see guys hovering around 575 to 580. Then you go to the state, and these same guys are taking the top places in A class and are shooting 585, 589 and so on. Yeah, they have to jump to AA for next year, but it's obvious they sandbagged just so they could say they won the state in their class. 

To me, sandbagging is unethical. Just think of the poor shooters who've worked hard to achieve their "decent A class scores" getting shoved out of the way by shooters who should have been shooting a higher class to begin with. 

BUT, How do you prevent it. You can't. Burns me up. :angry:

But that's my .02 worth.


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## bow slayer (Apr 2, 2007)

I don't think that you should purposely lose just for the sake of losing. not only will it bring down your self image, making you a worse shot but it takes away the opprotunity to get the "feel" for winning. If you don't expect to win, you probably won't win. So by always taking second in local tournaments (which are prime times to practice by the way)your brain just assumes that you belong in second place, virtually eliminating your chances of getting the gold. 
That is what I think anyway. 
if your scared that someone will be 'out to get you'. you should not sand bag. instead, you should develop mental stratagies to overcome some of the crap that your competitors will throw at you. 
seems to work.


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## archerpap (Apr 24, 2006)

Shoot what you can shoot. I've been at the top of our league for 3 years now, and I am making the jump to the next level. If I have to shot with the best to get up there, then that's what I'll will do, but not at the pro level(yet). I'll see how I fair at LAS tomorrow, and go from there. If I can shoot my game, I'll have no problem, but I am hoping to make the shoot up on Sunday. The only fault with winning all the time in your local shoots is, they will eventually stop shooting or try to run you out. I'm there now, and all they do is b***h about me winning all the time, but it really makes me feel good when they are talking about ME! I also started shooting in another league where there are some pro staffers(hoyt and mathews), and I can hang with them for the most part. I just have to get at their level for a while to be completly comfortable. Everybody has the potential, just that everyone needs to apply it, and work at it. My long days of shooting inside when it was 90+ degrees and no AC is starting to pay off. Just keep shooting the best you can, all the time!!!


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## Ravenshorn (Nov 1, 2006)

*Round Two*

For the record I'm not a Pro, but would like to maybe become one some day. Every time I read this thread something new jumps out at me. This time it is the contradictory statements being made.

First you say...



bradd7 said:


> I am not advocating it or promoting it, I am merely asking the questions to see how everyone feels....


Then you say...



bradd7 said:


> I also used this strategy when I owned a franchise and the company took back all the 'top' earning stores for themselves, to keep my store until I wanted to get out..


And...



bradd7 said:


> I try to keep it as my personal mantra..be a really good consistent second until it counts...until I choose when it's important.


If you don't advocate or promote sandbagging then why on earth do it? Oh, I get it.... What you mean to say is you don't advocate or promote anyone else doing it. That way you can win when you are the only sandbagger at the shoot. Right? :thumbs_do

Todd McNelly


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## mastermind1769 (Dec 20, 2008)

so does it count as sandbagging if you just don't care about your scores and use the beginning of the league to find glitches and errs, and consistently get better through the season? i shoot on a league with several 'pros', one of wich was in the shootoff at vegas last year...i believe there are 6 or more hoyt pro staffers on my league, 4 mathews pros, two bowtech staffers, and it's a four man team league, two of my teamates have dropped out, so it's just me and dad, he has a 147 average, mine was at 121.1 last week, and my lowest game of the three was 131,with a miss(twitched my pinky with the stan) i threw my thumb release downrange and went back to backtension, it slowed me way down and i concentrate more, and now we are in first place....so is not caring about numbers sandbagging?


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## ButchD (Nov 11, 2006)

*Holding Back*

Bradd,
I am a non professional recurve shooter.
Seems like holding back in the less critical events has served you well. 
There are several issues that I see,
If you hold back so your lower scores keep you in a less competetive group, then win the group, you will be doing yourself a disservice by not competeing at your peak level.
If you hold back to stay out of the spotlight in local shoots, and gain no other benefit, it could be similar to a track athlete running hard enough to advance, but saving the attention and pressure for the final. This seems to be your strategy.
I shot against an archer in my first tournament, who seemed competent, but lost to me by shooting at the wrong boss on two arrows. This was at 60 yards, and quite conceivable, but I have been uncertain as to the legitimacy of my win. 
When I shoot at tournament, my concern is my shot execution. Period. Anything else is merely a side issue.
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