# Asa shooters a must read



## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

I love the ASA format but it can't support the big crowds the way it's set up.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

I saw that last nite on the asa site looks like its gone be early to rise from here on Sunday mornings


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

Saw that too. Looking forward too KY


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## Scott Bennett (Aug 12, 2012)

bsharkey said:


> I love the ASA format but it can't support the big crowds the way it's set up.


Ditto!!! Paris was a joke!!!


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## zambezi (Jul 14, 2006)

Scott Bennett said:


> Ditto!!! Paris was a joke!!!


I thought Paris was great.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

zambezi said:


> I thought Paris was great.


Me too.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

I enjoyed texas also To be honest I really ain't been a bad asa pro am yet...well the classic last year wasn't great but that is because I don't enjoy getting in a yellow jacket nest while shooting makes for a bad shot


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## CarbonExtreme (Jul 7, 2010)

Paris was great..no complaints


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Tallcatt said:


> Me too.


Me three.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I can't figure out the 0730 Sunday time. What does that accomplish?

I truly hope they do not allow k50 to shoot Friday. That is not a jab at k50 in any way and shooting 40/day sucks....but if ASA allows Friday shooting by k50, they have a known distance round before, and after, an unknown distance round on the same range. This means it cannot be restaked.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Scott Bennett said:


> Ditto!!! Paris was a joke!!!


Loved Paris !
They did great with the challenges they dealt with. 

Having to add classes to an already full range is tough and does make for some slow going.

My only complaint was there were 100s of shooters still on the ranges when the shoot down started. Want our fault we were supposed to start at noon and finally shot the target closer to 2


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

730am.....down at the time bottom of the shoot might be a tad dark....those woods behind the ball field can get/does get dark without sunlight


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> I can't figure out the 0730 Sunday time. What does that accomplish?
> 
> I truly hope they do not allow k50 to shoot Friday. That is not a jab at k50 in any way and shooting 40/day sucks....but if ASA allows Friday shooting by k50, they have a known distance round before, and after, an unknown distance round on the same range. This means it cannot be restaked.


Tony from the way I read the range assignments looks like K50 is shooting all their targets Saturday!


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## MBlair (Feb 20, 2006)

*K50*

Definitely not a fan of K50 shooting all 40 on Saturday!!


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

cenochs said:


> Tony from the way I read the range assignments looks like K50 is shooting all their targets Saturday!


The "Friday option" line seems to contradict itself with regards to k50.

It basically says, "all classes shooting 40 saturday have a Friday option".... Then later calls out 30/40/45 yard classes....not 50.

I suspect k50 does not have a Friday option, I'm just not sure of it.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> The "Friday option" line seems to contradict itself with regards to k50.
> 
> It basically says, "all classes shooting 40 saturday have a Friday option".... Then later calls out 30/40/45 yard classes....not 50.
> 
> ...


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Help me understand this. Is it because they don't want to add ranges, don't have the room for additional ranges, or both?


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

My .02 is the new format is going to suck, I personally don't want to shoot all 40 on the same day. I usually shoot Hunter or Open C, so this effects me. The reason I like going to these is that it is a* 2 DAY SHOOT* and we get to relax and spend time with people you don't get to see very often. It's nice if you have issues on the first round to have time to get them straightened out and reset your mind for the next day. Plus now into the summer shoots most of these will have scorching temps and most dont want to be out shooting all day in it. The shooting on Friday has issues also, like having to use vacation days and most people drive with others and that makes all of them to use vacation time.

I also find it interesting 2 of the largest classes have to shoot all 40 on the same day. Why are they the ones that are screwed when they are the ones bringing in the most shooters.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Im probably the only one..but i like shooting all 40 in one day lol..gets me home at a decent time sunday for work monday haha. But i get to go check in on other buddys and what not on Sunday and do a little shopping and get the hell.out of dodge before the rush. Lol


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

I can't help but share my opinion, which is that the all in one day stuff is getting out of hand. I agree with the statement above that 2 days of shooting, which allows time to hang out, is part of the experience. Not to mention the fact that I personally don't want to drive many hours and spend many dollars to be on the range for 8 hours one day and just twiddling my thumbs the next while buddies are shooting. 

As of now I don't have to worry about it, but the all in one has already ran me out of one class...


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

I agree with the above statement... Was gonna go to KY but now unsure... I would either shoot all Sat or half on Fri. But my wife would be shooting Sat and Sun. So I'm unsure of what to do now. Sure it would be nice to hang out for a while but there's just not enough to keep my A.D.D. under control lol


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

3dbowmaster said:


> I agree with the above statement... Was gonna go to KY but now unsure... I would either shoot all Sat or half on Fri. But my wife would be shooting Sat and Sun. So I'm unsure of what to do now. Sure it would be nice to hang out for a while but there's just not enough to keep my A.D.D. under control lol


You don't want.to see your wife shoot on sunday.....and give her.pointers on what she's doing.....lol we are always looking.for something to laugh about.....what not. Did ya hear about .....trying to coach his wife sunday.....he came off the range with welts all over his legs and arms....lol


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> You don't want.to see your wife shoot on sunday.....and give her.pointers on what she's doing.....lol we are always looking.for something to laugh about.....what not. Did ya hear about .....trying to coach his wife sunday.....he came off the range with welts all over his legs and arms....lol


Lol that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. And besides the Womens range use to get a little wild. You could here them from a mile away. Is it still like that?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I'm not sure that having so many archers shooting all on Saturday is a good idea for the long run. I do understand having to make adjustment son the fly to accommodate as many archer as possible. The only real fix, I believe, is to set more ranges and that is NOT a small thing! Having more classes/archers shooting on Friday isn't a fix. That opens up another can of worms.

More ranges means more real estate is needed, more bodies to set courses and more time to get it all done prior to shooting. It means things getting finalized later on Sunday.

I know that there is a LOT I don't know about what the ASA has to get done from finding a venue for the tournament all the way through to closing it down on Sunday after the shoot. Ultimately though having too many customers can be a bad thing if a lot of them are unsatisfied over a period of time. Things can snow ball in a positive way but they can also snow ball in a negative direction.


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

Like I said earlier, everyone is there to have a good time whether your in first place or last. Spending all day on the range is not what I am going there for, I am going to see friends I dont see often and to make new friends. I can't imagine spending 8 hours on the course @ Metropolis, it is like 110 degrees there every year for some reason.

Another thing I find interesting is they have been trying to build up the K50 class and to make them shoot everything on Saturday is craziness. That is not making it inviting for the Spot pros to show up.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Well...as long as they leave the geezers alone.

Seriously, these are the kind of comments that need to be duplicated on the ASA Forum. I'm certain someone at ASA kinda monitors AT, but it would make some kinda sense to put it on their web site too.


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't like the 7:30 starts,a half hour makes no difference on the back end,but is a hell of a difference on the start.
I wish they could set a schedule that remains the same at all venues all year long,the ASA venue is the priority ,and schedule all other additions and functions around the constant reason everyone is there to start with. Don't like it don't go,no priorities ,no ass kissing,no exceptions.
Oh ya,I'm an ass,but I speak my mind and believe in continuity and reliability.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

I agree with pointdog, the allure to these types of events is the experience. Shooting both days, hanging out with friends, recouping after the first day, etc. If you shoot all 40 on Saturday, my buddies have to wait until I'm done or come back and get me, we are late for dinner, then I have to find something to do the next day while all of them are shooting. Kind of ruins the experience, IMO

I shot all 40 at Metro one year and I was exhausted, mentally drained, and no desire to shoot the Sims or anything the next day. Wasn't for me, I moved classes the next year.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

To me one thing they could do to drastically help the flow on the ranges is have known ranges that are totally independent from unknown ranges so that there is no contact between the two styles of shooters. 

For example there is really no need to have a known 45 class because it forces them to have two different ranges for known 50 and 45 because of the different max distance. Why not just go ahead and make both of them 50 yard max but you have a amateur known 50 and a pro known 50 so that now they can use the same ranges and same stakes. Then you could put senior known and open c and if there is a womens known on the 45 yard ranges depending on how the numbers allow you to spread them out.

Then force the semi pro unknown guys to shoot the pro courses because our class along with the pro men and pro women can basically fill up the ranges A and B, I would put the pro women with the semi pro and that would be just under a hundred shooters and then the pro men on the other range.


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## ba3darcher (Jan 13, 2005)

Padgett said:


> To me one thing they could do to drastically help the flow on the ranges is have known ranges that are totally independent from unknown ranges so that there is no contact between the two styles of shooters.
> 
> For example there is really no need to have a known 45 class because it forces them to have two different ranges for known 50 and 45 because of the different max distance. Why not just go ahead and make both of them 50 yard max but you have a amateur known 50 and a pro known 50 so that now they can use the same ranges and same stakes. Then you could put senior known and open c and if there is a womens known on the 45 yard ranges depending on how the numbers allow you to spread them out.
> 
> Then force the semi pro unknown guys to shoot the pro courses because our class along with the pro men and pro women can basically fill up the ranges A and B, I would put the pro women with the semi pro and that would be just under a hundred shooters and then the pro men on the other range.


Think your missing the Senior Pro's, they can take up nearly a range by themselves


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Crap, I knew there was somebody I was missing and that is the problem with guys like me that we aren't in charge and know how to make it work.


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

Padgett said:


> Crap, I knew there was somebody I was missing and that is the problem with guys like me that we aren't in charge and know how to make it work.


That sounds about right..... LOL


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I honestly wish they started at 9am on sunday  - at least for the first few tournies when you cannot even see at 755am.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Some of you older shooters may be able to answer this question? Did they ASA once have 2 different shoot times for Saturday and Sunday? If you preregistered you got the good shoot times and if not and the good shoot times filled up you were left with the bad shoot times? 

Also is there a reason why the ASA can't do 30 targets Saturday and 10 Sunday this would allow more people to attend the shoot down and awards ceremony? Could be a experiment?

I also do not agree making shooters shoot all their targets on Saturday..if you can't add ranges then make a cut off when a certain number is reached... 20 targets 5 to a stake 100 shooters per range...It is OK to turn people away if you don't expand and grow your product..

What about the shooters that paid for a room for 2 nights and after the fact told they will be required to shoot all their targets Friday...Some shooters live close enough to drive home..Will the ASA refund their money for a hotel room unused ? Sounds like a Pacquioa Civil suit... that's for the boxing fans!)

The ASA is the best 3D venue we have but with the growth they are having the small problems and corrections that should have been made years ago are being magnified..


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Yes. Back in the 90's you either shot noon Sat, 8 Sunday.... OR 8 sat, noon Sunday.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

"Its so crowded that nobody goes there anymore." Yogi Bera.

:mg:


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

To me ASA is doing a really good job and I love the asa weekends when I go and once a good 3d shooter gets a taste he will be back over and over again so what we need to do is think outside the box a little.

Why?

Because just 6 years ago I avoided my local asa course like it was the PLAGUE, I hated the low back 12 rings and I hated the shooting lanes and the little rules etc. I went to crappy local shoots and skipped the local asa club shoot to shoot the more hunter friendly type shoots. I was winning shooter of the year at these shoots and having a great time but the thing that kept bothering me was that the one shooter that I couldn't beat was shooting this stupid target bow with funny stabilizers and it was only shooting 284fps and his arrows were so freaking slow compared to my 345fps bow that there shouldn't be any freaking way he could be beating me.

To me back then I was a guy that just needed a strong and good organization to reach out to me and let me have that taste of what a real 3d shooter can be, for me it was that asa shooter Blake Allen who at the time was a strong semi pro asa shooter and he was kicking my rear at every shoot that he attended that got my attention. It shouldn't be that way, the asa organization should be finding a way to get the word out to the local clubs so that butt kicking isn't the only way.

Right now I have 5 buddies that are attending asa national tournaments and we are always trying to find more people to introduce to the game that we play, we still attend some of the little shoots in the area but we are trying to promote our asa club as much as possible as the one you need to attend but I just don't see any help from the national organization to spread the word, they are just relying on us to spread it which is working I guess but I think it could be better.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

To spread the word for your state....you need to look at texas....florida....oklahoma ... and ask them how they do it....those are your top 3 states (IN MY OPINION ) there is a reason why I put that in quotes...

but to get back to it those state directors I'm sure would help answer any questions for ya....


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Padgett said:


> To me ASA is doing a really good job and I love the asa weekends when I go and once a good 3d shooter gets a taste he will be back over and over again so what we need to do is think outside the box a little.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


I think its the responsibility of the ASA state director and their reps to promote the ASA state federations. Someone has to take the bull by the horns at the state level. That person or persons has to promote, recruit and organize. This has worked in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Florida. Some other state are coming on strong also.

When my wife and I became state directors in 2006 Texas had 4 ASA clubs, 4 state qualifiers and a state championship. In 2015 we have 31 ASA clubs, 23 state qualifiers and a state championship. We also have the ASA Western Region Shoot-Out at Archer's for Christ in Paris that draws shooters from Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana. This shoot will qualify you for the Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas state championships. This event will draw between 200 and 300 shooters. We have a strong shooter of the year program which encourages shooters to shoot multiple events. We have a strong award fund (funded by a portion on the entry fee) that allows us to give Gist buckles to the state champions and Shooter of the Year winners. 

We have built the Texas ASA Federation on 3 things that shooters like.

Enthusiasm – If the State Directors and State Reps are enthusiastic the clubs and shooters will be enthusiastic. Go to club shoots, go to club meetings, promote your events on social media.

Consistency – Run all shoots the with the same format. Start shoots at the same time (unless weather…heat or cold is a factor). Encourage clubs to set fair challenging courses. A long difficult course will discourage shooters from coming back next year. Shooters like consistency. If they drive 4 hours to get to the event they like to know they are going to get a quality 3D experience.

Discipline – People like discipline. Shooters like to know the rules are being enforced. Require the white, red and blue stakes to shoot thru the chronograph before they go out on the range. Allow shooters to adjust their speed if their bows are too fast. DQ any shooters (white, red, blue cards) that do not shoot thru the chrono. Enforce all other ASA rules. Make sure the shooters know how to fill out their scorecards correctly. Make sure you have a set of current rules onsite. I have found that very few shooters actually know all the rules. Have a 5 member competition committee in place at each shoot to handle any rules issue or protest. 

We promote and advertise our events on our Texas ASA Federation website, on our Texas ASA Federation Facebook page, on Twitter, and on a Texas bow hunting forum in the 3D section. We do our best to get scores posted on our website by Sunday night. Monday at the latest.

Our Texas ASA Federation Facebook page allows us to get news out to our shooters instantly. Our page has over 600 members. Here is a link to our Facebook page. Join it for current Texas ASA news.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/64674653085/

Here is a link to our Texas ASA Federation website. You can find our schedule and Texas ASA tournament results here.

http://texasasafederation.com/

Here is an add I posted on TexasBowhunter.com to promote our last two shoots. Click on link.

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525712

I hope some of this info helps with some ideas on how to promote your ASA state federation.


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## sprtsmen247 (Jan 4, 2011)

I was told by the asa today that there going all the k50 shooters will not have the option to shoot friday. There hoping that everyone shooting k50 will have a 3 to 4 hour wait after shooting the first 20 targets. And they have had several already state there not happy with this format but several have stated they are excited about it. So its mixed reviews right now but it looks like its going to be a trial for future events


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

That was a awesome post by tallcatt and a good look into why asa is really strong in his area.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

40 a day isn't that bad, you have about 3 or so hours between the two 20's.


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Tallcat, thats pretty cool to have shotgun starts at a local level. I wish we had that here. Is all your shoots like this or is there casual shoots there as well? I think it would be great to have groups busted up and you were put with other peers at local shoots


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

We have zero ASA federation up here.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

3dbowmaster said:


> Tallcat, thats pretty cool to have shotgun starts at a local level. I wish we had that here. Is all your shoots like this or is there casual shoots there as well? I think it would be great to have groups busted up and you were put with other peers at local shoots


We have 10:00 am shotgun starts at all of our events. After June 1st we go to 9:00 am shotgun starts to beat the heat to a certain extent. We have an announcement/safety meeting 15 minutes before start time. We say a prayer and if Brownie Curry (Gene's wife) is there she sings the national anthem. Then we send the shooters to their targets, give them time to trade scorecards then honk a horn or tell them to shoot em up. 

We bust groups at regular qualifiers. We will let friends shoot together but we always try put a non friend shooter in the group. If I ever have any idea that anything unfair is going on I will put myself or one of my trusted "spys" in that particular group. At our bigger shoots (Western Region Shoot-Out and state championship) we get everyone registered. Then we put the official scorecard of each shooter in a bag per class. Then we randomly draw for groups. It takes more time (with 250 to 350 shooters), but it totally busts the groups. At our bigger shoots the clubs set two 30 target ranges (all McKenzies). One range for the pin classes and kids. One range for the open classes. Lots of work but the shooters love it and it works great.


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Tallcatt said:


> We have 10:00 am shotgun starts at all of our events. After June 1st we go to 9:00 am shotgun starts to beat the heat to a certain extent. We have an announcement/safety meeting 15 minutes before start time. We say a prayer and if Brownie Curry (Gene's wife) is there she sings the national anthem. Then we send the shooters to their targets, give them time to trade scorecards then honk a horn or tell them to shoot em up.
> 
> We bust groups at regular qualifiers. We will let friends shoot together but we always try put a non friend shooter in the group. If I ever have any idea that anything unfair is going on I will put myself or one of my trusted "spys" in that particular group. At our bigger shoots (Western Region Shoot-Out and state championship) we get everyone registered. Then we put the official scorecard of each shooter in a bag per class. Then we randomly draw for groups. It takes more time (with 250 to 350 shooters), but it totally busts the groups. At our bigger shoots the clubs set two 30 target ranges (all McKenzies). One range for the pin classes and kids. One range for the open classes. Lots of work but the shooters love it and it works great.



That's it!!! I'm moving to Texas


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Tallcat you are so successful because Buzz and I aren't there to give you grief. 

Garceau you want ASA in Wisconsin? Talk to Dee and Mike about becoming the State Director(I think you would make a good one). There are plenty of clubs in Wisconsin you should have no trouble finding places to shoot.


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

Tallcatt said:


> Consistency – Run all shoots the with the same format. Start shoots at the same time (unless weather…heat or cold is a factor). Encourage clubs to set fair challenging courses. A long difficult course will discourage shooters from coming back next year. Shooters like consistency. If they drive 4 hours to get to the event they like to know they are going to get a quality 3D experience.


I think this is the biggest problem with 3D archery right now.its the everyone gets a trophy attitude.
I have a better time shooting bad on a challenging but legal course than shooting great on a give me course.
it seems that everyone wants a 20 yard straight shot on flat ground.WTH 
around here our HC "great shooters" will ***** if you "stretch" a course. and by stretch they mean a lot of targets in the 33 to 35 yard range.
come on really. when I ran archery at our Gun club my thinking and motto was I wanted no Junkies on my course. and by that I mean I didn't want a lot of shooters shooting up. jesus if you don't make it alittle challenging what fun is that just stay in the club house fill out the card and hand it in.
and if they drive 4 hours to go to a shoot and get ticked because it was challenging. they're idiots for assuming it wouldn't be.
they need to stay home and let the local clubs powder their bottom and tell them they're special.

this comment is nothing against you personally I just hate the fact that anymore everyone wants to be handed shti instead of earning it.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

BubbaDean1 said:


> Tallcat you are so successful because Buzz and I aren't there to give you grief.
> 
> Garceau you want ASA in Wisconsin? Talk to Dee and Mike about becoming the State Director(I think you would make a good one). There are plenty of clubs in Wisconsin you should have no trouble finding places to shoot.


This is true Dan.....but I would like to have to have y'all down here.:teeth: You and Buzz know just about all our Trad crew. It would make for some good competition and some fun times.

Dan is right on Wisconsin. With some leadership and direction Wisconsin could have a massive ASA state program.....Iowa too. Tons of shooters in both states. They just need some organization and direction.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

bsharkey said:


> I think this is the biggest problem with 3D archery right now.its the everyone gets a trophy attitude.
> I have a better time shooting bad on a challenging but legal course than shooting great on a give me course.
> it seems that everyone wants a 20 yard straight shot on flat ground.WTH
> around here our HC "great shooters" will ***** if you "stretch" a course. and by stretch they mean a lot of targets in the 33 to 35 yard range.
> ...


Believe me......our shoots are not easy. Most shooters tell me most of our state level events are more difficult than an ASA Pro/Am. Our ranges in Texas vary from shaded tall hardwood ranges to arid semi desert ranges with a lot of elevation changes. We have ranges where you are shooting across a canyons where you cannot see anything but the tops of cedar trees from the shooting stake to the animal. I encourage the clubs to set fair and challenging ranges not simply beat shooters down with long shots. I have had clubs set a 30 target range with 17 of the shots between 42 and 45 yards (45 max range). That is boring and no fun. We encourage the clubs to vary the yardage with most shots in the mid range. I send yardage guidelines to all clubs. The clubs that follow the guidelines (most do so) normally have a great range set up. 

Here are my guidelines for our 45 yard max classes. As you can see 54% of the shots are between 35 and 45 yards. You will see a similar mix of yardages at an ASA Pro/Am for a 45 yard max class. 

White Stake (45 yard max) 
43-45 yards – 2 shots 7%
39-42 yards – 4 shots 14%
35-38 yards – 10 shots 33%
30-34 yards – 8 shots 26%
25-29 yards – 4 shots 14%
20-24 yards – 2 shots 6%

Take a look at our tournament results here:

http://texasasafederation.com/TexasASAResults.html


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