# Lone Wolf Climbing Stick Alterations Strap to Rope



## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Not sure the amount of weight I cut off by doing this but I did it because of the ease of putting them in the tree.
I bought Cam cleats that accept 3-6mm rope.
Bolts were 8-32 stainless steel,washers, and nylon lock nuts
Rope was 5mm @ 10ft w/a 5000 lbs tensil strenght. I also used 6mm but not alot of room if you wrap excess rope around the LW factory Button See (Attaching to tree)

About 1- 1,1/4 inches above the LW factory button (were your straps would normally attach) I drilled and mounted the Cam cleat.
I then tied a hoop (eye) in one end of rope and then tied rope to the LW factory Button. (Important that the Hoop or eye is in the opposite side/direction of the grab of the cam. )
Done!! That easy!

Attaching to tree.
I throw rope around the tree and pass it through the eye and pull back the way I came.
I then put the rope through the cam cleat. 
With the excess rope you can put one wrap around stick and then a couple of half hitches back into line. Or 1 wrap around stick then 1-2 wraps around the LW factory Button.
*(Last photo shows knots and attachment to Button sorry should have been first photo*)
*I've also have used the rope method with out the Cleat Cams. I guess this would keep the price and wieght down even more. *


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## bowhuntertx (Feb 29, 2008)

Very nice. Where did you buy the cam cleats from?


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## 22jdub (Feb 22, 2006)

That rope looks pretty thin. Most of the mods I've seen on here call for 9mm rope when replacing the straps. Not sure how comfortable I'd feel 20' up with that rope. Be safe


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

It's not the size of the rope that matters (or that's what she says !!) It's the tensil strenght and type of rope used. I've seen on AT guys telling people to check Lowes, Home Depot or other hardware store thats where they picked up there rope for life lines. Very Dangerous!
Not all rope is equal. Static rope is for fixed positioning of gear or items. you would not really use that for a fall restraint. Where as a dynamic rope stretches thus you would not use it for attachement purposes. However works well when shock loaded(like a fall) do to its stretching it handles and disperses the intial shock of a falling load.
I'm no rope expert but I've been climbing on rope for 20 years and feel very safe on the rope material and tensil strength. 
If you all try to build one make sure you know your type of rope and tensil strenght. Buy it from a rope or rock climbing store not a handy man box store. 
The 5mm used is 5000 lbs tensil strenght.


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Cam cleats are Harken and Racelite.
Can be found on line like: Amazon, Westmarine, racelite hardware,Nautos-usa.
For climbing sticks I use cam cleats that take 3-6 mm rope and use 5-6mm rope.
For treestands I use cam cleats that take 6-10mm rope and use 8-9 mm rope.


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## INarcher711 (Aug 25, 2012)

Thats freaking awesome!!


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## Chiro_Archer (Jun 6, 2011)

That is definitely a sweet Mod!! Just curious, if you don't mind sharing, but how much did the cam cleats run?


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## 22jdub (Feb 22, 2006)

Forgive my ignorance, that rope just looks like paracord in the pics. Nice mod



bow4bulls said:


> It's not the size of the rope that matters (or that's what she says !!) It's the tensil strenght and type of rope used. I've seen on AT guys telling people to check Lowes, Home Depot or other hardware store thats where they picked up there rope for life lines. Very Dangerous!
> Not all rope is equal. Static rope is for fixed positioning of gear or items. you would not really use that for a fall restraint. Where as a dynamic rope stretches thus you would not use it for attachement purposes. However works well when shock loaded(like a fall) do to its stretching it handles and disperses the intial shock of a falling load.
> I'm no rope expert but I've been climbing on rope for 20 years and feel very safe on the rope material and tensil strength.
> If you all try to build one make sure you know your type of rope and tensil strenght. Buy it from a rope or rock climbing store not a handy man box store.
> The 5mm used is 5000 lbs tensil strenght.


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## nelliott (Feb 22, 2008)

Saving for later


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks 22jdub for calling out something you thought is a safety concern. Many of us do mods and don't see the danger until someone is willing to question it. 
The cleat cams in stainless steel run about $20-30 ea. (6-10mm rope)
The cleat cams that are a composite about $10-15 ea. (3-6mm rope)( $15-20 for 6-10mm rope)


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

I am working on attaching a cleat cam to my lone wolf alpha stand (similar to the Muddy Bloodsport)
On this I would use a cleat cam that accepts 6-10mm rope at a minimum and would only use stainless steel 
Photos and info to follow in a couple weeks. 
I also make a life line (which is for after the fall so you can get to the ground it is not what you attach your harness to) a out of 8mm rope and use a loop of 6mm to tie in a blakes hitch to desend on if I fall. Also more info and photos to come.


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

I also stress that once you pass the rope through the cam you do one wrap around stick and either tie in a couple half hitches or wrap it around the factor button 
This is for added safey incase the cam failes cause lets face it it's a mechanical device made by humans probably in china. Better safe than sorry.


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## madarchery (May 28, 2003)

So whats the advantage of this? You need to wrap the tree through the loop back around the tree through the cleat and then still you tie off. Why not just use the strap provided? Or the other mod where you just tie the half hitches?


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Advantage :
I moved away from the ratche straps and to the cleat cam for the ease of hanging the sticks or stand in the dark. It also dropped a little in weight and definetly is quicker and quieter 
One can just pull rope through cam cleat but for peice of mind and safety I threw in the wrap and or half hitch. 

I do have all my LW climbing sticks with rope. I wrap the rope around the tree w/ half hitch around the LW factory button but I though I would try to improve on it.


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## tribend (Feb 24, 2011)

I too struggled with the original straps. They were always getting tangled and made a heck of a racket. Rather than use cam cleats, I used a Prussic knot attached to 8mm static accessory cord with regular figure 8 loop in the other end and a saftey knot on the Prussic end to prevent it sliding off. This gives two uniform loops to attach to the Versa Buttons to prevent them slipping off that can be drawn tight around tree. It basically mimmics the same set up used in the linesman's rope. Light yes, but oh so quiet. Good thread!


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## killerloop (Mar 16, 2008)

I have a bunch of ucr's


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey Tribend,
What size line are you using for your prusik?
What material is your rope? Static, Dynamic, 16 strand 24 strand ect. 
I have a friend that splices loops into the ends of rope which was next improvment to my system and this would work well with yours.
i may give it a try 
Thanks for the idea.


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## tribend (Feb 24, 2011)

Whoops! I failed to put that in my first post. I used 8mm static accessory cord for the main run, and 6mm static accessory cord for the prussic. Both made by PMI. I experimented at first with the Klemheist vs. prussic, but it tended to open up and get turned on itself. I used climbing specific methods and rope that can be found at REI or any other climbing freindly store. I don't know how many strands it is, but is rated to 14 kN (3,150 lbs.). i joined the prussic loop portion using double fisherman's knot, and made it long to place the figure 8 follow through at the loop end for the Versa button.

If you already haven't, google animated knots by Grog. This is possibly the best sight in the universe for knots and instructions. Hope this helps!?


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Tribend. I will have to check that out.
I typically use while climbing is Schwabisch, Blakes hitch or Valdetain(but this one is really fast soi typically stick with the first 2) These I use for my life line. The Schwabisch and Valdetain are used with a eye and eye. The blakes hitch is a single spliced eye. (found a Sherrilltree.com) I use a 4 coil prusik for my attachement from harness to tree. 
Are you useing a 4 or 6 coil prusik?
Do you use it for your stands as well or just sticks?
Curious if you get creep out of the prusik if used on your stand.


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## killerloop (Mar 16, 2008)

Ucr....

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Are you using the ucr to attach sticks or stands???
What is the diameter and material?


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## tribend (Feb 24, 2011)

Bow4bulls... I liken the Schwabisch to the Klemheist. I have never seen the knots you mentioned until tonight. I like the site referenced. Now I just have to learn them! I have always enjoyed learning new knots. I used the 6 loop prussic for greater cinch strength, but a 4 would do as well. There typically isn't much load on the knot when using them with sticks as the load seems to be distributed well across the entire line. I have not switched the straps out on my stand as I just don't think there is enough there to get a truly "weighted" constriction on the prussic, and can only imagine the creep factor will have us swining in the wind! I don't have a problem with the stand strap noise as I haul the stand up once I have placed my harness tether around the tree with a biner on it. I run the haul line through the biner and hoist it up from there. once up, I will tie it off, suspending it where I am going to hang it, then place the straps around the tree and attach to the stand. In a nutshell, I took a Youtube video poster's method and can haul up a tree and be in stand in one shot without ever coming back down for gear. The only caveot is that I have a second haul loop that I attach to the stand base that is attached to my bow on the ground. I carry all 3 or 4 sticks up attached together on a long loop and get them all situatued, then haul up the stand, get it hung, all gear is in my pack (worn), so I strap in, hang pack and bow holder, sit down and haul up my bow. It has taken a bit of practice, but can be done in less than 10 minutes in the dark.

Killer loop... Tell us more about this magical UCR you have. I have never seen one of these before. They look promising.


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Tribend,
they are very similar and I use distel hitch alot for climbing.
I use a split tail with a carribener on it to aid in hanging stand.
I place split tail aroundtree and run the carribener end through the eye, pull up stand and attach to carribener, This is merely to allow for two hands to adjust stand and add straps. Once done I remove the split tail. 
I'm going to try a cleat cam on the stand as well for first intial hanging and the back it up with one ratches strap. 
I believe these methods will aid in making it easier to hang stand but will see. I've made up a bunch of LW hooks to help hang stands but since they are small I keep miss placing them.


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Tribend,
The ucr shown looks to be a whoopie sling with an extra eye slpiced into the end. The Whoopie silng used in the Arborist industry is a spliced eye end with a adjustable eye at the other end and you adjust it by pulling the long tail end. These are made of large diameter braided non torquing lines with a coating and rated well w/in the 8000 lbs range. Friction from the load on the eyes is what secures it. I've used them when lowering large tree limbs. 
I think I would want a hitch in the end to prevent slipping or creeping since it is my life on the line. 
I would be very interested to know from Killerloop diameter size and material his is in. 
i have a buddy who splices and makes line and will be asking him to make me one in smaller diameter or if it can be done. 
You can also check AMleo.com (A.M. Leonard 1-888-558-8665 ext 136 Teresa is a good contact for materials) 
Bartlett, wesspur, northeastern arborist are a few places I buy from. Price around.


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey Tribend,
Do you use a daisey chain to attach to your line to attach all that gear to or is each peice attached right to your line?
i pull my haul rope up that has a loop tied in it then a daisey chain attached to it with me gear attached to each loop in the daisey chain (DC) in the order I need it.
I pull up the rope and take the loop and hook it on a screw step or hook that way it holds the load of all my stuff (stand & bow) as it hangs off the daisey chain. I grab daisey chain and pull up stand hang it get in and pull the rest of my stuff up from the daisey chain. So everything comes up at once on the DC. Like you no running up and down sticks I also use a seperate daisey chain to attach my stickes to so they all go up at once with me. 
I then take one daisey chain loop it around the tree and can hang all my gear (rattling horns, extra calls, pack, ect.) from each loop on the DC.
The other DC you could loop around the tree and attach your harness to as a fall restraint strap.


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## tribend (Feb 24, 2011)

Bow4bulls,
No daisy chain. Once up, I hang my pack from a second biner on my harness tether around the tree. I bought the LW stick sling which is attached to the last stick which has the webbing strap attached to it. All 3 sticks are wrapped together with this webbing, the 4th is free as it is the 1st stick to go on tree. I sling the 3 sticks over my shoulder (envision messenger bag style here) and place the 1st stick on the tree, attach my linesman's rope and climb the 1st stick. Once on 1st stick at desired height, I swing 3 sticks on sling around and rest on the linesman's rope. I remove a stick, re-attach the LW stick sling to the remaining 2 sticks and sling goes back behind me. I attach stick 2 and repeat all the way up. Background, stand is attached to gear loop on harness by haul rope, and bow is attached to stand base by 2nd haul rope. I am wearing my pack with all other gear (binos, range finder, calls, food, etc.). At top, once all sticks are in place, I place my harness tether around tree. Biner in place on tether against tree. Stand haul line goes through biner, and I hoist up stand and clip to biner once up with a short loop of paracord that is attached behind the seat. I strap stand to tree and climb on and remove linesman's rope. I will adjust tether strap, hang pack and bow hanger and then sit in the stand and haul up my bow. Easy enough. I got the method of placing sticks from a Youtube video. If you do a search for Lone Wolfe stands on Youtube it will pop up. I am locked out from Youtube at work or I would send link, sorry. I have thought I would do my own video, but haven't had the time.


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks I will look it up.
I'm interested in the webing strap to carry the sticks up. 
FYI Petzel ZigZag is a mechanical version of a prusik knot 
I've used similar to host up heaveir stands that stay put for most of the season.


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## docmerrow (Apr 16, 2012)

A lot of work. Esp when you still use the vs button. I wouldn't think all the work would be worth the trouble..


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Docmerrow,
yes I still use the button but the ease, quiteness, and simplicity that comes in not useing a ratchet or the metal pinch lock they use from the factory. It also drops the weight and allows for use on larger trees. 
It's defintely not a one size fitts all. I prefer using the rope system with cleat cams and using it with just the vs button(no cleat cam) both work.
Surely not for everyone and maybe not the best way and someone out there can improve on it and share it with us. This is how the industry standards improve and get better because otherwise we would all be still using BAKER TREESTANDS LOL!


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## docmerrow (Apr 16, 2012)

Bowbulls,
Great build, just think its a lot of modification.. The lonewolf sticks are pretty simple to use even with the straps. A simple tire tube over buckles keep them from slapping together. I would find your new method to take longer to hang a single stick.. JMO.. Nice mod


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

Docmerrow,
What size tire tube do you use?
Great idea.


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## madarchery (May 28, 2003)

I do have the ucr's as well and they work good. But sometimes I find using to hands to milk the lines trhough while in odd positions mid climb frightening. I have since used the half hich not from another thread with the ucr main line. Still not sure what I like best, but both better then the strap supplied.


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## Sfd_324 (Jul 22, 2003)

do you have a pic of this set up??




tribend said:


> I too struggled with the original straps. They were always getting tangled and made a heck of a racket. Rather than use cam cleats, I used a Prussic knot attached to 8mm static accessory cord with regular figure 8 loop in the other end and a saftey knot on the Prussic end to prevent it sliding off. This gives two uniform loops to attach to the Versa Buttons to prevent them slipping off that can be drawn tight around tree. It basically mimmics the same set up used in the linesman's rope. Light yes, but oh so quiet. Good thread!


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## yoda4x4 (May 11, 2004)

bow4bulls said:


> It's not the size of the rope that matters (or that's what she says !!) It's the tensil strenght and type of rope used. I've seen on AT guys telling people to check Lowes, Home Depot or other hardware store thats where they picked up there rope for life lines. Very Dangerous!
> Not all rope is equal. Static rope is for fixed positioning of gear or items. you would not really use that for a fall restraint. Where as a dynamic rope stretches thus you would not use it for attachement purposes. However works well when shock loaded(like a fall) do to its stretching it handles and disperses the intial shock of a falling load.
> I'm no rope expert but I've been climbing on rope for 20 years and feel very safe on the rope material and tensil strength.
> If you all try to build one make sure you know your type of rope and tensil strenght. Buy it from a rope or rock climbing store not a handy man box store.
> The 5mm used is 5000 lbs tensil strenght.


If you don't mind me asking, what brand of rope did you buy that gives you a tensile strength of 5k with a 5mm diameter? I've been looking all over ebay and none of the climbing ropes come even close at that diameter or even slightly larger. Heck, I was just looking at 3/8" one that has a tensile strength of 6k, but that is much larger.

Nice mod BTW.
David


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## bow4bulls (Aug 2, 2010)

For safety reason I wouldn't buy rope off ebay since you really don't know what your getting. Looks can be dangerously deciving. 
Look at Rope Rescue web pages or Arborist web pages for product and advise. 

www.karstsports.com www.sherrilltree.com
www.bluewaterropes.com www.wesspur.com www.baileysonline.com

New England Tech Cord 
The strongest and smallest cordellete or chock cord available. Tech Cord's 5mm diameter and 5,000 lbs. tensile strength is achieved using a unidirectional Technora core and a bombproof polyester sheath. The soft supple hand makes Tech Cord the perfect choice for balancing anchor, slinging chocks and hexes.
New England Ropes Tech Cord consists of a Technora Core (unidirectional) and a polyester cover braid. Tech Cord is ideally suited for climbing and industrial applications where reduced size and weight is critical. 

Also check out Bluewater Titan rope it's 5mm w/3,500 I've also used DPI has a 5mm w/2500 lbs. 
Some of the ropes may not be ture 5mm they may actually be 5.5mm. 
Remember not all rope is created equal and your life depends on it. 
Thanks


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## mandrroofing (Oct 13, 2011)

ttt


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## lakertown24 (Mar 3, 2013)

marked


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## MichBowhunter12 (Jan 23, 2012)

I covered my buckles on my lone wolf straps with tire tube, where I now get no noise during setup. I also covered my sticks with camo duct tape so there really is nothing to make noise. The straps are easy but I also like this idea I may have to rethink my setup in the off season. I would just worry about rope getting knotted up during set up


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## 22jdub (Feb 22, 2006)

MichBowhunter12 said:


> I covered my buckles on my lone wolf straps with tire tube, where I now get no noise during setup. I also covered my sticks with camo duct tape so there really is nothing to make noise. The straps are easy but I also like this idea I may have to rethink my setup in the off season. I would just worry about rope getting knotted up during set up


knotting up with climbing rope is not an issue.


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## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Hey bow4bulls. I've looked nearly everywhere online for the same color rope, New England Tech Cord. Did you just catch a limited run on that color? Man, I can't find anything that similar, even in a solid olive drab or dark brown with similar specs. Do you know where I could find this stuff besides what you have listed already? I would appreciate any help you could give me.


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## Newhunter1 (May 20, 2003)

tribend said:


> I too struggled with the original straps. They were always getting tangled and made a heck of a racket. Rather than use cam cleats, I used a Prussic knot attached to 8mm static accessory cord with regular figure 8 loop in the other end and a saftey knot on the Prussic end to prevent it sliding off. This gives two uniform loops to attach to the Versa Buttons to prevent them slipping off that can be drawn tight around tree. It basically mimmics the same set up used in the linesman's rope. Light yes, but oh so quiet. Good thread!


This...I'm going to do this.


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## Oklahoma33 (Apr 6, 2015)

Newhunter1 said:


> This...I'm going to do this.


Agreed. The straps from LW are way too loud. I always like the sticks from LW but the cleat clamps from muddy. Now I have no use for my muddy pro sticks. 

Caveat: placing old tire tubes over the lonewolf sticks has made them super silent. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Oncorhynchus (May 19, 2016)

tribend said:


> I too struggled with the original straps. They were always getting tangled and made a heck of a racket. Rather than use cam cleats, I used a Prussic knot attached to 8mm static accessory cord with regular figure 8 loop in the other end and a saftey knot on the Prussic end to prevent it sliding off. This gives two uniform loops to attach to the Versa Buttons to prevent them slipping off that can be drawn tight around tree. It basically mimmics the same set up used in the linesman's rope. Light yes, but oh so quiet. Good thread!


^^Could you post a picture or 3?

OP, great mod, thanks for sharing!


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