# Ok I going to tell you some thing



## Avalon (Jul 23, 2007)

With families it makes it hard for them to go to all the "big" shoots and still attend the smaller shoots. I do agree with you though, the good shooters in an area can do alot for archery at the local level. I don't think many realize the impact they have...the way they can make a local shoot "legit".


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

Avalon I understand familys and i agree. But most local shoots are family affairs they could do 1 or 2 a year.


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## nrpayne (Sep 8, 2003)

Before making a generic statement assuming all pros do not go to local events, why not put a question to the pros for those that do not go to local events. I can tell you my husband (Russell Payne, 2009 National Indoor Pro Champion), went and shot at every indoor tournament possible, including the State indoor (I believe it was around 5 or so) and only missed a couple of weekends to do major events such as Iowa and Vegas. He also attended three local field matches and would have shot the State field b/c of the Yankton shoot this past weekend. 

Between major and local events, I and our 2.5 yr old daughter don't see him many weekends from January through June or July. Heaven forbid he decide to miss one local event to see his family one weekend.


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## dead eye dick (Sep 1, 2004)

i believe most pro are trying to make some money at archery i do not think their is much at the state level ,let alone the lack of someone decent to shoot against ,leave the local shoots to the hackers ,i can not remember a local shoot i went to recently that felt like they were slighted by no pros showing up,im not sure what your getting at with your remarks


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

I go to every local shoot I can make or afford. I go to more local shoots than national ones. I'll shoot just about anything. I have to split my time on the weekends with chores, going to see my little girl 4.5 hours away and fishing.

I ain't too good for anyone.

I know a lot of pros that are the opposite of what you are accusing them of.

Your tact could be improved.


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## dead eye dick (Sep 1, 2004)

hell im not a pro just voicing my thoughts sorry if they dont agree with your agenda, it just seems to me the pros have a lot of shoots to go to and their going to go to the ones that make them money, whats that old saying time is money ,


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

nrpayne said:


> Before making a generic statement assuming all pros do not go to local events, why not put a question to the pros for those that do not go to local events. I can tell you my husband (Russell Payne, 2009 National Indoor Pro Champion), went and shot at every indoor tournament possible, including the State indoor (I believe it was around 5 or so) and only missed a couple of weekends to do major events such as Iowa and Vegas. He also attended three local field matches and would have shot the State field b/c of the Yankton shoot this past weekend.
> 
> Between major and local events, I and our 2.5 yr old daughter don't see him many weekends from January through June or July. Heaven forbid he decide to miss one local event to see his family one weekend.





The Swami said:


> I go to every local shoot I can make or afford. I go to more local shoots than national ones. I'll shoot just about anything. I have to split my time on the weekends with chores, going to see my little girl 4.5 hours away and fishing.
> 
> I ain't too good for anyone.
> 
> ...


I'm Glad that you do and know that there are some that do and it is very much appericeated. I am not saying that they have to be gone to every shoot. In my state they dont make it to the State championshiop shoots let alone local clubs shoots. I do feel they should get out there.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

dead eye dick said:


> hell im not a pro just voicing my thoughts sorry if they dont agree with your agenda, it just seems to me the pros have a lot of shoots to go to and their going to go to the ones that make them money, whats that old saying time is money ,


And what percentage make any money at them Less that 7%. It costs more to attend them as opposed to local shoots. So where is the money? Plane ticket across the country, hotel room, higher entrance fee vs couple hours drive stay, at home, less entrance fee which puts more in your pocket.


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

kjwhfsd said:


> And what percentage make any money at them Less that 7%. It costs more to attend them as opposed to local shoots. So where is the money? Plane ticket across the country, hotel room, higher entrance fee vs couple hours drive stay, at home, less entrance fee which puts more in your pocket.


I can tell you that around here the pros do attend the local shoots. Not all of them, but the ones close to their homes and the ones that don't conflict with major shoots. 

Most everyone has shoots or types of shoots they like and will go to. I can tell you who I'm likely to see at a FITA, for example, or a 3D or field shoot. Just because they're a pro doesn't mean they like or excel at all kinds of shoots. 

Also, they may be required to attend certain major shoots, or at least a certain percentage of the major shoots, by the manufacturers they represent. That can take a ton of time and money.

Of course, some of the shoots here aren't well attended by the pros or any of the better shooters because they aren't well run or the bales or targets in good shape. But, generally, you'll see some of the local pros at most of the local shoots. 

So, what shoot did you go to all the trouble to put on and no pro showed?


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

6X60 said:


> I can tell you that around here the pros do attend the local shoots. Not all of them, but the ones close to their homes and the ones that don't conflict with major shoots.
> 
> Most everyone has shoots or types of shoots they like and will go to. I can tell you who I'm likely to see at a FITA, for example, or a 3D or field shoot. Just because they're a pro doesn't mean they like or excel at all kinds of shoots.
> 
> ...


Just about every shoot in Washington with the exeption of a few in the sw corner they dont come to. With the exception of the state multi color (Vegas) they dont come shoot the state championships. In 7 years at at the present location of my home club there has been 1 pro shoot at it. Evergreen archers that has hosted the NAA Fita Field Championship doesnt get any pros to show up and shoot unless its a national tourny. Those are just 2 examples then there is Darrington I know that you have heard of that club pro attendence nill at club shoots there. I am not going to name names of the pros that dont come shoot yes we have a couple that do try to attend and many that dont seen to care. Its not just here I have talked to people around the country about this. They dont see the local pros at local club shoots. I know and understand about bad bales there are a couple of clubs that I hesitate to go shoot because of that but that is not all clubs. I'm not complaining about a shoot that my club put on. I am going to say this the state field Championship is in 2 weeks here. The club that is putting it on just put in the field course some pros here better get there and help bring some shooters to it. That club did alot of work to not have anyone come shoot. I understand sponsers wanting them to shoot big shoots but with out local archers buying there sponsers product there wont be any sponsers.


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## dead eye dick (Sep 1, 2004)

boy you just do not get it most pro shooters are under contract most do not get their travel paid for the bow companies you shoot for most do require attendance at quite a few major shoots to keep your sponsorship if the shoot does not conflict with a major then yes if its a state championship they should go , but they make their money at the majors and are required to shoot so many a year their is only so much time in a day, and i do you really think the locals are going to stop buying sponsors stuff because the pros do not show up at their local shoots , come on get real i could care less if they show up or not


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

Well, FITA Field isn't a good example. Few in this country care about FITA field. If it wasn't a USAT qualifier you wouldn't get as many people as you get. 

And, what are you calling a pro? Dues paying pros or just sponsored shooters in general?

You mentioned indoors and that they attend those events. Well, sad to say, but in most of the country indoor archery is much bigger and more important to people.


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## xshot13b (Mar 1, 2004)

Wow, this is about the dumbest thread I think I have ever read, but heck he's right, when was the last time I saw Tom Brady or Kobe Bryant at a high school game. lol. dude your a joke, grow up. Pro=job. Do you go to work for free, jeeze try helping out your place of work and not take a paycheck for a month. This is my first year in the pro class and I can tell you that the amount of time it takes just to place in the middle of the pack is unreal. I am the Vice President of the WSAA and there are still weekends that I would rather be with my family than at a tourney, my mind needs a break from the sport every now and then. Heck, I don't see how dave, reo...etc. do it sometimes. And on my wifes end, she loves archery, loves watching me compete, but seriously, there are times that if I mention archery again, I think she might puke. 

Payne,

I just wanted to say good post and good job. I've gotten the chance to meet you twice this year and you and Russel are a class act and really hit the nail on the head in this stupid thread. It's family like you that allows these pros to compete on the level they do. Good job.


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## xshot13b (Mar 1, 2004)

And on one more note (sorry don't know when to shut up). It's people like you that hurt the sport, sitting around...complaining...spreading negativity. Come around me at a tourney and 95% of the time I am joking around, helping people, and just enjoying the sport. Try giving something back to the sport YOURSELF besides just complaints.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Here in Maryland the Mecca of Archery we get Pros that show at almost all the local shoots. Randy Hinkleman, Ron West, Tom Coblentz, Shane Wills, Jay Bradway (NJ), Brian Simpson, Mike Leiter, Lenny Simmons and Bob Peterson just to name a few. I agree that they do not make all the shoots but they do attend local events. Seems that the Senior Pros are the ones that make the most shoots. You can almost guarantee that Ron West and Tom Coblentz will be there any Weekend throughout the year.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

xshot13b said:


> And on one more note (sorry don't know when to shut up). It's people like you that hurt the sport, sitting around...complaining...spreading negativity. Come around me at a tourney and 95% of the time I am joking around, helping people, and just enjoying the sport. Try giving something back to the sport YOURSELF besides just complaints.


You want to go there fine I will put up what I take out of my pocket for shoots. Lets see 300 For money dots for the youth at our big shoot of the year every year. 15 hours labor making a underwater carp shot 80 dollars in material that I didnt charge my club for. The field animal targets that I bought was only partically repaid for. At every shoot that I go to at least 30 dollars donated to the club i attend 10+ shoots a year. Sending people parts that they need for there bows or arrows for free close guess around 200 dollars a year this is not what it costs me to shoot. then there were the 6 dozen arrows that I gave away last year and the 2 releases. Oh yea I'm not a pro so I cant write it off on my taxes. You are the vice president of WSAA do you shoot at your state championships? If not then you are not supporting the clubs that you represent that is a good vice president. Give something back I put my money and time where my mouth is. Last year i drove 5 1/2 hours to 5 shoots. What have you done for local archery?


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

Rattleman said:


> Here in Maryland the Mecca of Archery we get Pros that show at almost all the local shoots. Randy Hinkleman, Ron West, Tom Coblentz, Shane Wills, Jay Bradway (NJ), Brian Simpson, Mike Leiter, Lenny Simmons and Bob Peterson just to name a few. I agree that they do not make all the shoots but they do attend local events. Seems that the Senior Pros are the ones that make the most shoots. You can almost guarantee that Ron West and Tom Coblentz will be there any Weekend throughout the year.


Unfortunatly that is not the case most other places. and that is what I'm talking about. Hats off to those that do those that dont you should. they sure could do 1 or 2 a year.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

xshot13b said:


> Wow, this is about the dumbest thread I think I have ever read, but heck he's right, when was the last time I saw Tom Brady or Kobe Bryant at a high school game. lol. dude your a joke, grow up. Pro=job. Do you go to work for free, jeeze try helping out your place of work and not take a paycheck for a month. This is my first year in the pro class and I can tell you that the amount of time it takes just to place in the middle of the pack is unreal. I am the Vice President of the WSAA and there are still weekends that I would rather be with my family than at a tourney, my mind needs a break from the sport every now and then. Heck, I don't see how dave, reo...etc. do it sometimes. And on my wifes end, she loves archery, loves watching me compete, but seriously, there are times that if I mention archery again, I think she might puke.
> 
> Payne,
> 
> I just wanted to say good post and good job. I've gotten the chance to meet you twice this year and you and Russel are a class act and really hit the nail on the head in this stupid thread. It's family like you that allows these pros to compete on the level they do. Good job.


Wow you realy need to look at things like how much they give to charity. They both give alot of time and money you can find them at camps, charity functions, have there own charity foundations. Your statement wasnt very well thought out.


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## xshot13b (Mar 1, 2004)

Of course I spend alot of time within the WSAA, (they wouldn't have elected me otherwise). It is unfortunate that you view your local shooters that way and are having those kinds of problems but maybe instead of starting a thread of 'ALL YOU PROS', you should look into what the pros are trying to do with the sport and all that we bring to it. 

Now on your second statement, yes, we do and try and make money at this sport, and that is why we travel to the larger shoots "where the money is." Hence joining the PRO class and not just enjoying it as a hobby. It is nothing personal to the clubs but it is an income that some shooters MUST HAVE. An example that might be a solution for you is to find sponsors to donate money to your pro class for your local shoots. A great example of this was at Colorado's State Indoor (I actually travel and compete in colorado and wyoming's state championships) Ray Tenbrook went around and collected donations which went to several things including bows for kids, and some other things that i don't remember. But the pro class ended up with $1000 dollar pot courtesy of these donations. Because of this, I think we had ten pros show up, two from out of state. Money is a way of life, not a sin.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

xshot13b said:


> Of course I spend alot of time within the WSAA, (they wouldn't have elected me otherwise). It is unfortunate that you view your local shooters that way and are having those kinds of problems but maybe instead of starting a thread of 'ALL YOU PROS', you should look into what the pros are trying to do with the sport and all that we bring to it.
> 
> Now on your second statement, yes, we do and try and make money at this sport, and that is why we travel to the larger shoots "where the money is." Hence joining the PRO class and not just enjoying it as a hobby. It is nothing personal to the clubs but it is an income that some shooters MUST HAVE. An example that might be a solution for you is to find sponsors to donate money to your pro class for your local shoots. A great example of this was at Colorado's State Indoor (I actually travel and compete in colorado and wyoming's state championships) Ray Tenbrook went around and collected donations which went to several things including bows for kids, and some other things that i don't remember. But the pro class ended up with $1000 dollar pot courtesy of these donations. Because of this, I think we had ten pros show up, two from out of state. Money is a way of life, not a sin.


So what do you bring to this sport. I am serious what do you bring to this sport. You are just going to the shoots that pay you. Ray went and got donations what did you do? Look at the things that I do remember I'm the one not giving anything back to this sport and just complaining. The question again is what do you bring to this sport you show up at shoots that pay you. Maybe your sponsers would like you to show the average joe there equipment you shoot that is who they are trying to sell to ever think of that? being on the borad of your state org. is good guess what so am I and on the board of my local club


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## nrpayne (Sep 8, 2003)

I really was not going to post again, but some people just make it difficult for me to stay quiet. Let's talk Kobe and Tom for a minute...You want to reference what they do for the sports by going to charity events and camps... You know why - they are paid MILLIONS of dollars and that is probably their ONLY job. If I am not mistaken, most pro archers have what I like to call "real" jobs b/c the sport of archery doesn't pay MILLIONS of dollars to their pros. The archery pros have to have PASSION for what they do to spend the time and money it takes to compete at the level they compete at and get such little in return at times.

It sounds like you are just upset that you don't have others supporting you and I am sorry about that - but not a pros fault. Russell and I served on a "board" for a 3D club for a couple of years and I know the work is tiresome b/c no one does help - but I didn't blame a pro. Do you have many pros in your area? For a while, there were not any pros in the area we live in and so, of course - no pros at local events. It is not until just recently that Michael Braden moved to the area and he, like Russell, is at as many local event as possible. If the manufacturers felt the need for Pros to go local shoots, then it would be in their contract. 

Xshot13B, thanks for the compliments. I love watching Russell shoot b/c he does have such a love for the sport. It just comes natural to show my support to him. Thanks again and see ya down the line.


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

Just out of curiosity, how many pros are there in the state of Washington?

I looked at the championship flight at Vegas and there were only 4 guys from WA. 3 of those I know and one of those isn't, or at least wasn't a pro.

So, how are you defining a pro and what exactly is it that you expect of them?

And these guys weren't always pros. They started out at the local shoots just like everyone else. Heck I know some top shooters that started out fletching arrows in the local shop. They all pay their dues on the way up. And, archery isn't making anyone rich. It isn't like they have some big debt they need to pay back to the sport. They have families that need them and most of them have real jobs.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

6X60 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how many pros are there in the state of Washington?
> 
> I looked at the championship flight at Vegas and there were only 4 guys from WA. 3 of those I know and one of those isn't, or at least wasn't a pro.
> 
> ...


Defining pro as a dues paying NFAA pro. There are 7 if I am not mistaken in the state. Of them 2 actually shoot at State shoots other than the indoor. And 1 of them will actually shoot at a club shoot that is not in his back yard. What do I expect simple go to 1 or 2 different clubs a year and or support your state org. shoot your state championships. Is that asking to much? I dont think so. In doing that you will be doing more for archery than just going to money shoots. I am well aware that pros have real jobs to. I think about the only one that just shoots is Cousins.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

kjwhfsd said:


> Defining pro as a dues paying NFAA pro. There are 7 if I am not mistaken in the state. Of them 2 actually shoot at State shoots other than the indoor. And 1 of them will actually shoot at a club shoot that is not in his back yard. What do I expect simple go to 1 or 2 different clubs a year and or support your state org. shoot your state championships. Is that asking to much? I dont think so. In doing that you will be doing more for archery than just going to money shoots. I am well aware that pros have real jobs to. I think about the only one that just shoots is Cousins.


So you think a PROs roll in archery is to travel the state and visit clubs.... Next I guess you are going to tell us that Martin needs a booth setup at every shoot in Washington....and Hoyt should have one at every shoot in Utah zip:

Dude get over yourself....what are YOU doing for archery? Most people that shoot local shoots...be it a state shoot or a regular weekend shoot wouldn't know a PRO if they shot in the same group with them. Their equipment is NO DIFFERENT then mine is. Most people are afraid to talk to the Pros anyway...how do I know because I am friends with Pros and I see it all the time and I know plenty of Joes that tell me they are afraid to talk to them if they aren't working a booth or don't want to bother them. 

There are big shoots some place almost EVERY other weekend across the country from right after Vegas through Aug....most people have jobs and families....why SHOULD they bother going to shoot a local 3D that is not going to help them at all. 

and just to let you know Dave isn't the only one that just shoots for a living....ever hear of Braden G, Chance B, Jeff H, Dan M...and then you have the Hammer, Griggs, and Nathan...yes they work but they are cheating and work for Scott and GT :wink: I am pretty sure Levi only shoots also....

But I think your issue is in your area....but then there are only a couple of Pros in your STATE....get over it. if they don't want to shoot your shoot deal with it. 

I know I see Pros at most of the shoots in my area...I can think of 10-15 pros that I see shooting in Md and Va on regular basis...are they there to work and show their stuff NOPE. They are there to compete and practice just like the rest of us. 

Man there was a local golf tourny I went to a while back why the hell wasn't Fred Funk there 

There is a FITA shoot down the street from me next weekend.... Braden G lives close by I wonder if he will be there? If he is....great...if not nobody will care. Why...he just got back from Yankton...and has been out of the country 4 times in the past 5 months...and in Texas...Vegas...Pa....NJ....and a few other places. I was really mad when he didn't shoot NAA states...I mean it was less then 30 mins from him. Oh wait...he had to go to Poland the next week to shoot. :doh: but there were 3 other Pros there...and other then the people they came with or knew. NOT ONE PERSON talked to them.


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## 60Xbulldog60X (Mar 12, 2005)

Well said Hornet!!!! I don't understand this guy???? Some people must have nothing better to do than to sit around and complain about what other people are doing. I would be willing to bet that this individual has never been out of the state of Washington shooting his bow, yet he knows how and what goes on " in most other places," all around the country. 

Anywho, take care,

Kendall



Brown Hornet said:


> So you think a PROs roll in archery is to travel the state and visit clubs.... Next I guess you are going to tell us that Martin needs a booth setup at every shoot in Washington....and Hoyt should have one at every shoot in Utah zip:
> 
> Dude get over yourself....what are YOU doing for archery? Most people that shoot local shoots...be it a state shoot or a regular weekend shoot wouldn't know a PRO if they shot in the same group with them. Their equipment is NO DIFFERENT then mine is. Most people are afraid to talk to the Pros anyway...how do I know because I am friends with Pros and I see it all the time and I know plenty of Joes that tell me they are afraid to talk to them if they aren't working a booth or don't want to bother them.
> 
> ...


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## Avalon (Jul 23, 2007)

xshot13b said:


> Wow, this is about the dumbest thread I think I have ever read, but heck he's right, when was the last time I saw Tom Brady or Kobe Bryant at a high school game. lol. dude your a joke, grow up. Pro=job. Do you go to work for free, jeeze try helping out your place of work and not take a paycheck for a month. This is my first year in the pro class and I can tell you that the amount of time it takes just to place in the middle of the pack is unreal. I am the Vice President of the WSAA and there are still weekends that I would rather be with my family than at a tourney, my mind needs a break from the sport every now and then. Heck, I don't see how dave, reo...etc. do it sometimes. And on my wifes end, she loves archery, loves watching me compete, but seriously, there are times that if I mention archery again, I think she might puke.
> 
> Payne,
> 
> I just wanted to say good post and good job. I've gotten the chance to meet you twice this year and you and Russel are a class act and really hit the nail on the head in this stupid thread. It's family like you that allows these pros to compete on the level they do. Good job.


I don't know if you are a pro shooter or not...if you are you must be a great shot. You definitely didn't get there by heading up the PR committee.


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

KJ, just because you don't see these guys at your club helping you doesn't mean they are not doing what they can for the sport. Not everyone has the time or funds to make every shoot and drive or fly all over the state, let alone the country. Do you realize that it costs us $500 in entry fees alone to shoot Vegas and Nationals? That's just 2 shoots. Then figure in travel expenses and family time. Many times we have to decide between going to two different shoots. Maybe a guy can afford Vegas if he skips State and a couple other events. You have to take into consideration Vacation time that is being used. I'm sure some guys have to split that between family and archery.

You act as though pro's do little of nothing for the sport as compared to what you have done. I commend you for your contributions, don't get me wrong. But I have yet to see a pro turn down someone who needed help on the range. Or not give sound advice when asked. I've seen guys take time off of their practice to re-tune some random guys bow. I think nearly all of us, pro and ameture alike, have. Just because it's not tangeable or has a recipt doesn't mean it has no value.

Bottom line is this. Just because we pay more money to be a NFAA member and pay more to shoot the tournaments does not make us any more or less obligated to this sport. We all take it to the level that we can based on our priorities. Family, work, finances, practice, and everything else in life plays a role in how involved we can be. Just like everyone else. We all put our pants on one leg at a time.


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## xshot13b (Mar 1, 2004)

Avalon,
I'm just starting out as a pro, and yes, my PR skills are very good, I just don't tolerate some peoples behavior and tend to be very out spoken and to the point. In all seriousness I really hope I did not offend you. In the words of PRO1, "better to be hated for who you are then loved for who your not."

K,
You want to know what I have given back to the sport, heck, I tried helping you and finding a solution to your problem. It might not be what you wanted to hear but at least I tried. I'm sorry you are so miserable in your state organization and feel that the pro class owes you something. I wish you the best and hope you find a solution to your problem, seems there are several people within this thread that have tried to help and you have shot them down.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

60Xbulldog60X said:


> Well said Hornet!!!! I don't understand this guy???? Some people must have nothing better to do than to sit around and complain about what other people are doing. I would be willing to bet that this individual has never been out of the state of Washington shooting his bow, yet he knows how and what goes on " in most other places," all around the country.
> 
> Anywho, take care,
> 
> Kendall


 Kendal you lost that bet. The company I work for has 23 branches around the country I know archers at every one of the locations.



AT_X_HUNTER said:


> KJ, just because you don't see these guys at your club helping you doesn't mean they are not doing what they can for the sport. Not everyone has the time or funds to make every shoot and drive or fly all over the state, let alone the country. Do you realize that it costs us $500 in entry fees alone to shoot Vegas and Nationals? That's just 2 shoots. Then figure in travel expenses and family time. Many times we have to decide between going to two different shoots. Maybe a guy can afford Vegas if he skips State and a couple other events. You have to take into consideration Vacation time that is being used. I'm sure some guys have to split that between family and archery.
> 
> You act as though pro's do little of nothing for the sport as compared to what you have done. I commend you for your contributions, don't get me wrong. But I have yet to see a pro turn down someone who needed help on the range. Or not give sound advice when asked. I've seen guys take time off of their practice to re-tune some random guys bow. I think nearly all of us, pro and ameture alike, have. Just because it's not tangeable or has a recipt doesn't mean it has no value.
> 
> Bottom line is this. Just because we pay more money to be a NFAA member and pay more to shoot the tournaments does not make us any more or less obligated to this sport. We all take it to the level that we can based on our priorities. Family, work, finances, practice, and everything else in life plays a role in how involved we can be. Just like everyone else. We all put our pants on one leg at a time.


 X Hunter I know what it costs to to go to shoots It cost me $897.37 to go to and shoot vegas. A week furlo from work due to the economy cost me being able to go to Redding. I am well aware of having enough time to do all the things that you want or need to do.




xshot13b said:


> Avalon,
> I'm just starting out as a pro, and yes, my PR skills are very good, I just don't tolerate some peoples behavior and tend to be very out spoken and to the point. In all seriousness I really hope I did not offend you. In the words of PRO1, "better to be hated for who you are then loved for who your not."
> 
> K,
> You want to know what I have given back to the sport, heck, I tried helping you and finding a solution to your problem. It might not be what you wanted to hear but at least I tried. I'm sorry you are so miserable in your state organization and feel that the pro class owes you something. I wish you the best and hope you find a solution to your problem, seems there are several people within this thread that have tried to help and you have shot them down.


No your PR skills are weaker than mine are it doesnt seem like you read either. Where did I give the impression that I was miserable with my state organization? Where did I say the pro division owes me anything. Yes there are places that have a great showing from the pro's. Most have a very weak showing.


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## xshot13b (Mar 1, 2004)

Dude, I give up. I don't know what to tell you. Overall, I found your initial statement offensive and rude. It's sad that AT doesn't have more top level pros posting on it, and I can tell you exactly why it doesn't. Because people like you do nothing but complain about how the pros don't do enough, like their making millions of dollars shooting their bows. Really your just hurting yourself and others on this site. Dave, Reo, Jesse, GRIV, used to post here alot and Especially GRIV used to be very helpful to people. But if you notice they barely ever post anymore. I wondered why for a long time, but now I understand why. Instead of trying to pick a bone with the Pro division maybe you could work on your "PR" skills and try posting a thread that is started "I would like to see more pros at our state tournaments what can I do to try and make this happen?" And stay positive withi it. I remember one example really well, It was when Jesse Broadwater won vegas and on his congrats thread some people posted pics of him shooting and then proceeded to break down his form. And jesse posted one simple statement..."Jeeze guys, can't I do anything right." Well, I might not be top level yet, but AT just lost another pro. Take care all and shoot straight.


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

X Hunter I know what it costs to to go to shoots It cost me $897.37 to go to and shoot vegas. A week furlo from work due to the economy cost me being able to go to Redding. I am well aware of having enough time to do all the things that you want or need to do.


If you understand all this then why the thread? It cost any one of us nearly $900 just to go to and shoot in Vegas. That doesn't include food, drink, and entertainment. I know when I go I'm upwards of 2K by the time I get home. Nationals is a month later. Luckily I can drive that one but it still costs between $600 and $700. Then there's Lancaster, the Iowa Pro AM, Redding, Sectionals, State Indoor, the Classic, the big 3, the ASA's, and every other shoot out there. There is a lot going on in a short time frame and we have to make the decision as to which tournaments we want to go to. And I've never been to a local shoot that was as competitive or fun as one of the above shoots I've listed.

My personal situation afforded me the time and funding to go to nearly all the shoots I wanted to. But I'm single with no kids. I dump a ton of money every year going to these shoots. I can't imagine how a guy that has a dream of doing this professionally and has a family does it. We go to the money shoots for the competition and the chance to maybe, just maybe win a couple bucks and at least pay our entry fee.

You and I are lucky that we have the time to go to the majors and the local shoots. I am an officer in the local archery club. I do what I can. But not everyone has the luxury of time and money that we do. It's easy to criticise people when you don't have to walk in their shoes. 

I'm not trying to dump on you, or be confrontational. But when you make such sweeping statements about people you don't know, it is offensive to those of us who do walk that line.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*Pro's Shooting*

just for the record, 
Mike and Susan Davis have never missed any of our local shoots unless they were away at a big shoot.

Sometimes they will hit 3 different local clubs in a weekend. 

They are very dedicated and great embassadors of the sport.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

XForce Girl said:


> just for the record,
> Mike and Susan Davis have never missed any of our local shoots unless they were away at a big shoot.
> 
> Sometimes they will hit 3 different local clubs in a weekend.
> ...


Again THANK YOU to the pros that do get out and shoot local shoots. THANK YOU Mike and Susan you are giong above and beyond the call We need more like you


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i'm not a pro, but if you wanna talk money, it cost me well over $1200 to come and enjoy the hospitality of kjwhsfd's club this last weekend. it was just convenient that their shoot fell into my schedule.

pros need practice too, they dont just 'be' good. there are guys that like to shoot just for the joy of shooting. some are pretty darn good. when you shoot next to a pro, you tend to up your game. if you make the pro work harder because you work harder, it's a win-win for both. some contracts require you to shoot in the local scene. if you arent, that's breach of contract.

word gets out that this or that pro came to the local club. if that same pro makes it a habit of goin to the local courses, more will go to shoot and see him. he does his duty by representin and the club wins because more come to play. if the pro would do his homework and ask if the club would like a mini-seminar, even more reason for them to go.

word gets out even faster if the local guy beats him. the better pro will go back and put a whoopin on the local guy if he can. the lesser pros will never show again because they had their feelings hurt.

sponsors win because the pros are reppin, clubs win because people come to gawk and play.

some of you want kjwhsfd to be a little more tactful, i say poo. get in their face and make noise. bein nice doesnt seem to work. if he said somethin that hurt your feelins or hit a soft spot, then it must be true.


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## R&B (Oct 4, 2006)

*Values?*

The sport of archery is bigger than any individual or individuals or even event for that matter. 

Having certain individuals define or legitimize your event or sport is spiritually and morally corrupt.

-R&B


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

rock monkey said:


> some of you want kjwhsfd to be a little more tactful, i say poo. get in their face and make noise. bein nice doesnt seem to work. if he said somethin that hurt your feelins or hit a soft spot, then it must be true.


That's all well and good, assuming there are pros in the area. It doesn't seem that Washington has many. It's kinda silly to expect people who don't exist to show up and support local clubs. The Washington State blue face round had 3 pros signed up (PMFS). The NFAA nationals had 1 pro from that state (in MPFS).

"if he said somethin that hurt your feelins or hit a soft spot, then it must be true"

Rock, come on. If roles were reversed, and you put in as much time as you could to help the club. You train as hard as you can to be as good as you can be. You help out anyone who asks for it to the best of your ablility. All the while trying to ballance your dream of archery with the facts of reality....

Wouldn't you feel insulted? Maybe not. Maybe you would simply not care or respond. I guess I just know too many guys and gals that have a pro card that do everything they can, but are still told it's not enough.

There is one pro in my club, and that's me. There are way more ametures in the club that don't help in any way, shape, or form. They just want a place to shoot. And that's fine too. There will always be those select few that do the work, and then there's the rest.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*I'm not sure.*



R&B said:


> The sport of archery is bigger than any individual or individuals or even event for that matter.
> 
> Having certain individuals define or legitimize your event or sport is spiritually and morally corrupt.
> 
> -R&B


I'm not sure I totally understand your post.

The Pro's that come to our shoots do so because they love the sport. Everyone looks forward to seeing them and talking with them. They are the most friendly and humble people I know. 
They really are embassadors for the sport.

They do legitimize our events, and this helps us out by increasing attendance and our clubs revenue.

Are you implying that this is morally corrupt??
please explain this to me.

Marcy


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

well, the pro population may be low, but that doesnt mean they cant actively participate in the events that are local to them. if they feel that shooting against the local guys is 'beneath them', it doesnt speak well of their motivations.

i met kjwhsfd this last weekend, shot with him twice. contributed financially to his club graciously. i saw how much work he put into the field courses. there were 35 people that came and shot. kj can tell you how many of those were club members. there were fewer that shot on sunday. what does that say about the overall support of club shoots?

were there other events scheduled on that weekend? sure there were. but not EVERYONE on that side of washington went to yankton. was there a local 3d event goin on too? if there was, it wasnt on the washington archer's schedule.

the IBO had their 2nd leg NTC goin, but not EVERYONE in the state went.

so where were the shooters? if the pros dont go and entice the average joes to go, what is the purpose of holding shoots and setting up a course?

you'll see the excuse of 'the pros shoot/use it so thats why i do' on lots of 'why do you use......?' threads. well, if the pros wont shoot a/their local course, why should the average joe? what's in it for the average joe? if it's not good enuff for the pro, why go?

i'm not saying the pros need to do work at the course, im sayin they need to support the local scene better, and so is kj. PROfessional and PROmotional are two of their responsibilities as a hired gun for the companies they represent. even if they arent sponsored pros, and there are plenty of em, just going to the local stuff will bring the groupies and word will spread. if the local scene doesnt have pros, the top guns will bring people too. who wouldnt want to see the top guns in a shoot off to break a tie?

trees grow from the roots up, not the leaves down.



AT_X_HUNTER said:


> That's all well and good, assuming there are pros in the area. It doesn't seem that Washington has many. It's kinda silly to expect people who don't exist to show up and support local clubs. The Washington State blue face round had 3 pros signed up (PMFS). The NFAA nationals had 1 pro from that state (in MPFS).
> 
> "if he said somethin that hurt your feelins or hit a soft spot, then it must be true"
> 
> ...


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

Club participation is a regional thing. Every pro I know has a club or shop he or she shoots at. Sometimes having a pro at a shoot is a good thing. Sometimes it's not. For everyone that shows up because ________ is there how many don't go because they don't think they have a chance to compete? It's a two way street. I've been the cause of both of those situations. Then there is the group of shooters (which I would consider to be the majority) that doesn't know or care that ________ is at the shoot. These shooters are there to practice for hunting season, plain and simple.

I think that all someone can do is organize a good shoot. If the event is something that people want to participate in, you'll get shooters. And the people that shot it will recomend that event to their friends. Club shoots/ tournaments are products. We have to present them in a way that makes them worth the time of the participants. Unfortunately it always falls on the hands of the select few that do all the work at the club to do this. I can promote an event all I want but I can't make people show up.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

if that is the reasoning for all areas, explain why south PA, VA, MD and NC have such visible pros? those areas dont seem to have a problem bringing joes and pros together in the same event. why is there such a difference between NC and WI(for example)?

if a joe is so afraid of getting his hat handed to him even though he shoots a totally different class, he's a sissy. yeah, i said it....a SISSY.

when i go to a shoot, i try to shoot with someone that will normally knock the stuffins out my score. why?, because it makes ME a better archer. i want to know how i stack up next to a pro and im not afraid to get humbled. if the pro takes the time to talk with me afterwards and point out something he sees wrong, i appreciate it, may not understand it right away, but i appreciate it. if the pro can let me in on some insight on how to shoot this or that target presentation, i want to know it. i want to know what i need to do to make me that much better. getting pushed hard is the only way to find your weaknesses. if you're content being mediocre and the big fish in the little pond, good for you because i am not.

train like you fight, fight like you train.




AT_X_HUNTER said:


> Club participation is a regional thing. Every pro I know has a club or shop he or she shoots at. Sometimes having a pro at a shoot is a good thing. Sometimes it's not. For everyone that shows up because ________ is there how many don't go because they don't think they have a chance to compete? It's a two way street. I've been the cause of both of those situations. Then there is the group of shooters (which I would consider to be the majority) that doesn't know or care that ________ is at the shoot. These shooters are there to practice for hunting season, plain and simple.
> 
> I think that all someone can do is organize a good shoot. If the event is something that people want to participate in, you'll get shooters. And the people that shot it will recomend that event to their friends. Club shoots/ tournaments are products. We have to present them in a way that makes them worth the time of the participants. Unfortunately it always falls on the hands of the select few that do all the work at the club to do this. I can promote an event all I want but I can't make people show up.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

My question is why is everyone putting the PRO on a pedestal?? I for one am not in awe of any pro and that encludes Jesse or Cuz. These guys just happen to shoot very good. They are people just like the rest of us they just happen to be pros. I remember some of these guys when they were amatures. What, am I suppose to look at them differently now that they can get paid for shooting. Only difference in a pro and a joe is the amount that you pay the NFAA in annual dues. Being a pro does not mean that you are the best shooter it simply means that you paid more to play. So please don't look at the pros to be the answer for higher shoot turnouts. If you want a better turn out then get the membership excited about shooting, advertise the shoot etc. I truely believe that there must be a JOE that shoots at your club that is just as good as most of the Pros. Promote the shoots and not point fingers. Have a Nice Day. Ed


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

Rattleman said:


> My question is why is everyone putting the PRO on a pedestal?? I for one am not in awe of any pro and that encludes Jesse or Cuz. These guys just happen to shoot very good. They are people just like the rest of us they just happen to be pros. I remember some of these guys when they were amatures. What, am I suppose to look at them differently now that they can get paid for shooting. Only difference in a pro and a joe is the amount that you pay the NFAA in annual dues. Being a pro does not mean that you are the best shooter it simply means that you paid more to play. So please don't look at the pros to be the answer for higher shoot turnouts. If you want a better turn out then get the membership excited about shooting, advertise the shoot etc. I truely believe that there must be a JOE that shoots at your club that is just as good as most of the Pros. Promote the shoots and not point fingers. Have a Nice Day. Ed


I am not in awe of them either. I am not putting them on a pedistal. I'm trying to knock a few off there high horse. They need to represent there sponsers. Shooting with Cuz, Jessie, ect and not being close to them does not promote your sponsers to there customers. Go to some local shoots with the joes that is who is buying your sponsers products. I have been on the line with Cuz, Reo, Menzer, Dee. I learned alot from them. They are not who I am talking about. I am talking about the majority of the pros. Yes I can shoot even or beat them. What I am seeing and hearing is the Joes are doing more to promote archery than the pros are. Most pros have some sort of sponser ship. Not much different if any frorm some that I have. I am not saying dont go to the big shoots. I am saying go to the smaller local shoots.


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## R&B (Oct 4, 2006)

*Morals*



XForce Girl said:


> I'm not sure I totally understand your post.
> 
> The Pro's that come to our shoots do so because they love the sport. Everyone looks forward to seeing them and talking with them. They are the most friendly and humble people I know.
> They really are ambassadors for the sport.


 We should all be ambassadors for the sport even if we are not pros. We should all show up to tournaments because we love the sport not because there are going to be pros/FAMOUS PEOPLE  there. 



> They do legitimize our events, and this helps us out by increasing attendance and our clubs revenue.


Then the solution to the problem is to pay the pros to show up. 
Many other sports do this. When you are relying on a very small group of people to show up at event to insure it's legitimacy you have a moral issue here. The sport or event is much more important than a select group of people (Pros). 



> Are you implying that this is morally corrupt??
> please explain this to me.


Placing a small group of individuals above the sport is a moral issue (corrupt or wrong). Pros are just a small part of a our wonderful sport. They have no more responsibility for growth of sport than anyone else. 

"I am not a role model" 
-Charles Barkley

Love Of Sport. 

-R&B


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

> if that is the reasoning for all areas, explain why south PA, VA, MD and NC have such visible pros? those areas dont seem to have a problem bringing joes and pros together in the same event. why is there such a difference between NC and WI(for example)?


Bad example . I think you'll find many of the pro's in WI are just as active as some of those other states you listed above. In fact, you'll find several of the WI pro's aiding in running the state org, setting up for state and sectional tournaments, hosting field rounds at our local clubs, etc.. Just like many of the pro's I know in other states. I don't think it is appropriate to generalize the actions, or lack thereof, to all pro's across the country just because your state's 3 or whatever pro's do not attend local outdoor tournaments for whatever reason in your area. Not that way across the country from what I've seen.

>>------>


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i wasnt trying to pick on WI specifically, i was more attempting to show a disproportionate support of the local stuff. it wasnt my intention to say that WI's pro membership doesnt support the local clubs. i couldnt think of a state that wouldnt have supporting pros....WI was an arbitrary selection without applied thought to the numbers. my apologies to the pros in WI that do support the local clubs.

i will not apologize to the non-supporting pros that view local competition is beneath them, who think they are above the bill paying joe. i may never be a pro or at the pro level but it doesnt stop me from working to get there. being pro just doesnt happen. you work for it. to not support the system and clubs that you came from is just as disrespectful as talking down to anyone that isnt a pro or doesnt shoot YOUR brands. if the pros want the respect of the archery public, they need to show respect to the archery public too. it's a 2 way street.

if a pro wont or refuses to participate at the local level, the joes will think that if the courses arent good enuff for the pro, why would it be good enuff for the joe?

if a bowhunter joe is afraid of getting beat by a freestyle pro, he has bigger personal problems than that.

like i said earlier, if i said something that hurt your feelings, then it is probably true.


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

I've had the luxurary of shooting with some of the best archers in the country and on occasion the world. I have never delt with anyone who thought shooting at their local club was beneith them. I do know some that won't shoot at the club because of the attitudes at the club. Some guys just don't want to deal with jerks thinking they have moral superiority and can dictate to everyone else what and how everything should be done. I don't know any one who is affraid of being beaten by an ameture. If there is he/she doesn't belong in competitive archery, let alone pro division.

That brings me to another point. Pro Division is just that, a division. Those of us who shoot that class do so for the competition and to improve our game. Just like Rock Monkey said, he likes shooting against others that are better than him. Guess what, so do we. We decided to step up to the plate and test ourselves against the best.

The basis of this thread was the lack of Professional archers participation in Washington state's local events. Even though there are only 3 or 4 registered pros in that state. Then the assumption was made that it is the same in every other state in the country. Some of you just like to stir the pot and rial people up. Your claims are baseless and intellectually dishonest. If you want to beleive that the majority of the 150 or so people who wear a pro badge do nothing but sit in their mansions and shoot in their private ranges then so be it.

And Rock, you can calim that our offense to this thread is because we "know it's true". I am not going to list the things I do because I neither have to prove myself to you or anyone else. Nor do I need a pat on the back. It is unfortunate that you have the beleif and bias that you do.

I've said my peice. Good day gentlemen, and best of luck with archery and in life.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

*Bad bad bad*

:mg: now you guys really irritated that pro guy and now now he's not gonna come on here again to help us out. You should be ashamed. What we gonna do now? Shoot maybe I'll quit too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT


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## newq (Apr 9, 2009)

I am not a pro but this is exactly what I would think about this entire thoughtless crappy post. To boot, if your small time setup doesn't get enough attention try to provide more than hay bails to shoot at and put a bit more work into directing and promoting your event to make it more desirable rather than having to flash someones name on your flyer. Stop being so lazy and you may just reap your just deserves.

On behalf of the Pro's "why don't you tell us what you do for a living. Now why don't you do it for free any chance you get?" 

More than bash the pro's why not bash the companies that pay the pros and ask them to pay the pro's for their time and require them to attend at least x amount of benefit and local events.

Time is not cheap you are exactly right. I work tirelessly for the little money I make and resent people who think I should "Do more for less". I spend 75% of the time I am awake away from my family and maybe you have not progressed through life far enough to have had children but, once you have, revisit what you speak now and look at it from a working family mans point of view. Regardless of what I am getting paid for my "work" or what my "work" entails you have a lot of gall throwing your pissy little fit about your petty wants. 

Sorry for the reckless and obnoxious attitude I exhibit here but this post really rubbed me the wrong way whether it was pointed at me or not. It may damage them or their sponsors to say what I have said and I would never expect them to come out and say this so I will do it for them.


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## newq (Apr 9, 2009)

Aww nuts I guess i didn't realize archery was all about ****ing charity work. Man I got some homework to do i should be running to any beggar with their hand out....


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

AT_X_HUNTER said:


> I've had the luxurary of shooting with some of the best archers in the country and on occasion the world. I have never delt with anyone who thought shooting at their local club was beneith them. I do know some that won't shoot at the club because of the attitudes at the club. Some guys just don't want to deal with jerks thinking they have moral superiority and can dictate to everyone else what and how everything should be done. I don't know any one who is affraid of being beaten by an ameture. If there is he/she doesn't belong in competitive archery, let alone pro division.
> 
> That brings me to another point. Pro Division is just that, a division. Those of us who shoot that class do so for the competition and to improve our game. Just like Rock Monkey said, he likes shooting against others that are better than him. Guess what, so do we. We decided to step up to the plate and test ourselves against the best.
> 
> ...


Re read my post you are only about 20% correct.




newq said:


> I am not a pro but this is exactly what I would think about this entire thoughtless crappy post. To boot, if your small time setup doesn't get enough attention try to provide more than hay bails to shoot at and put a bit more work into directing and promoting your event to make it more desirable rather than having to flash someones name on your flyer. Stop being so lazy and you may just reap your just deserves.
> 
> On behalf of the Pro's "why don't you tell us what you do for a living. Now why don't you do it for free any chance you get?"
> 
> ...


Read the thread. For your info There is not 1 hay bale at my club Every one is a carpet bail. As for our big shoot lest see $18,000 In door prizes yes $18,000, $ 2,000 in money dots. It is one of the biggest in the northwest. Basically you dont understand the thread. Yep these small time setups they host the NAA Fita Field that is a USAT qualifer. Ever heard of it? Or how about the NFAA nationals That has been hosted many times at these small time set ups. Yea we have a clue on how to put on a great shoot.


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## newq (Apr 9, 2009)

Great so cry some more. So you addressed the first to lines on my post. Why bother quoting it. You totally disregarded the entire point of my whole thread. The first two lines were just me being pissy and therefore being as disrespectful as you are.

My POV is both outlined and very well justified. As stated your event has little to do with what you ask and it really shows your narrowing view on the broad scope of the situation. I do hope the next time you have a particular gripe you address it with fact gathering as opposed to addressing the Industries professionals as a whole. I am sure some pros can't be bothered. I am also sure their endorsements suffer likewise. 

It is ok to ask questions, it is your right to be mad. It is not ok for you to throw a temper tantrum like a child ranting and raving because an individual did not participate in your anticipated event. *Disappointment will continue to be a large factor in your life expect little so you won't be disappointed.*


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

kj's home course isnt someones backyard deal, it's a well constructed and well layed out course for the nfaa stuff. i think there is enuff room on all 4 courses to be able to hold a state event. but who will go?



B and D courses are for the nfaa games. the bales are very solid and very new. they arent hacked together. the club made a healthy investment in the nfaa games for all to enjoy. didnt look like anyone wanted to enjoy when i was there.


A and C are for the unmarked stuff. it's bad enuff courses get vandalized because some groups wont play well with others.

kj also gave me a tour of the club's assets for the unmarked stuff, and it is plenty. i counted atleast 8 mckenzie standing bear targets. those arent cheap. CRB has invested in materials to bring out the shooters, but if the shooters dont wanna play, then what is the point?

take some time to look at the pics from their shoot here. there were 35 registered shooters on saturday. click on the link for the flyer, it wasnt just a word of mouth thing.

http://washingtonarchery.org/member_info.htm

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=941664


how would a pro know who can put a decent enuff challenge and who cant if they dont visit their local courses? i think some guys that are bow company shooters should read their contracts again. i know the last one i had specified i had to shoot in 10 scheduled shoots. local, regional or national, *10*. no specified amount of the 3, just 10 shoots. depending on how the contract is written, there may be more emphasis on the local than on the national levels. guys like me want to get better, and how can i learn and get better if the local pro is too good to take me to task? is he afraid of shooting with someone who may actually put his skills to work? dont know, probably wont ever know. my indoor game is ok, just needs 'me' work. my outdoor game does need work and there are very few people and even fewer courses within an hour's drive for me who i can shoot with to get me to up my game.

there arent jeff hopkins trees or reo plantations, nor are there fields of dave cousins plants. pros are made, not miracled. tons of work, tons of dedication and tons of time to find that 'magic' formula. being the best is great, but sometimes #1 isnt the best. #2 and 3 are gonna put in that extra to beat #1 next time.

it seems that more and more joes want more and more return before they will participate. thats why clubs are scrambling to find donors and supporters for door prizes and cash awards. the joes and almost pros want a pay out pool that in some cases exceeds what the card carryin pros would get. time and time again, we see posts that state a club shouldnt be making any money to host. thats fine.....guess ya dont wanna have a place to shoot either, huh?

you shoot pro for the challenge of competing and for the fruits of your labors. good, thats the way it should be. BUT, the general public needs to know that not all card carryin pros are on a payroll from the companies they represent. very few, and i would venture a guess of less than 1% of the total professional archers in all venues have a paycheck signed by an archery company's boardroom. archery aint makin anyone rich and with the greediness the joes keep upping, the companies with great products and marginal profits wont be around. it takes time, money and personel to establish a shooting program. 3 assets companies cant really afford now-a-days. somethings gotta give and so far, it's not the greed factor.

if a pro wont go to a shoot because there's no local competition or it doesnt meet his predetermined minimum fee for participation, maybe he needs to re-evaluate his archery motivations. money is tight, no doubts. i'm one of the 12.3+ million without a job so i know how it is. but to say you wont go because the payday isnt there or the minimum ticket sales havent been met, that just isnt right.


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## newq (Apr 9, 2009)

Rock Monkey, you seem intelligent and well spoken however:

Please revisit my above post. YOU'RE NOT READING. I could give not less of a care about the establishment he shoots at. You just don't get it.

I don't care where he shoots or if he shoots at all, where he shot was not the point of the post.


You are defending the quality of his field and revisiting it because it is the only thing you can defend about his post. His post was obnoxious, opinionated and demanding.

You don't get anyone to do anything for you by being obnoxious,opinionated and demanding. The only thing you will get from me is my middle finger. Ask nicely and I may entertain your request but, never mistake that because it would be nice of me to make an appearance as a celebrity at your event that I should feel morally or contractually obligated to give back to anyone. Don't mistake my kindness and generosity as necessity to fulfill a obligation. If I were the pro in question I would make sure Washington Archery was never a stop I would even consider again. The author owes these people an apology for his actions and I am surprised you won't recognize it as it truly was.


There is a right and wrong way to ask for something appeal works being rude and demanding something as if for some reason he is owed or deserving will not carry him far.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

please o please such high and over-exalted archer, please tell us mere working class folx what it would take to get someone such as yourself and others of such high caliber to attend local events.

we want to know.




newq said:


> Rock Monkey, you seem intelligent and well spoken however:
> 
> Please revisit my above post. YOU'RE NOT READING. I could give not less of a care about the establishment he shoots at. You just don't get it.
> 
> ...


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## newq (Apr 9, 2009)

I'd like to tell you where to place your lips but I digress. Enjoy your life I am sure you deserve all that life will bring you and yours.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

Newg 
You are not the one that is reading. You just dont get it. You have your opinion that is fine your entitled. I'm sorry that you dont have a clue. your ranting makes no sence. Do you realise that maybe 1% of pro's make money shooting. Where is all this work that they are giving away? You dint understand that paying $20 to shoot as opposed to $100+ $30 in gass $300+ for a plane ticket. You do the math which costs more? Your giving it away for free doesnt hold much water. I'm am not talking about the shoots at my club or just the state of WA. With the replies this thread is getting It seams that I have hit the nail on the head. Again to the pros that do shoot local shoots you are not who I am talking about Thank you for your efforts.


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## bownut65 (Jun 16, 2009)

XForce Girl said:


> just for the record,
> Mike and Susan Davis have never missed any of our local shoots unless they were away at a big shoot.
> 
> Sometimes they will hit 3 different local clubs in a weekend.
> ...


 I totally agree I see Mike and Susan at alot of shoots.I even see them in NC at times and they are there for the shooters.
In NC you will see Johnny Perheath and Amy Whittington at local shoots most weeks.There are others that you dont see at all but does it really matter ?


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## newq (Apr 9, 2009)

kjwhfsd said:


> Newg
> You are not the one that is reading. You just dont get it. You have your opinion that is fine your entitled. I'm sorry that you dont have a clue. your ranting makes no sence. Do you realise that maybe 1% of pro's make money shooting. Where is all this work that they are giving away? You dint understand that paying $20 to shoot as opposed to $100+ $30 in gass $300+ for a plane ticket. You do the math which costs more? Your giving it away for free doesnt hold much water. I'm am not talking about the shoots at my club or just the state of WA. With the replies this thread is getting It seams that I have hit the nail on the head. Again to the pros that do shoot local shoots you are not who I am talking about Thank you for your efforts.


I think we can agree to disagree and thats fine I am not going to visit this thread anymore and I think we all will agree it better that way.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

> I'm am not talking about the shoots at my club or just the state of WA. With the replies this thread is getting It seams that I have hit the nail on the head.


I'm not sure I'm getting what nail's head is being hit here k-. I think if you go back through all the various posts/replies so far to your original posit only yourself and rock have been concerned with the lack of pro's attending local tournaments. All other replies so far, I believe, can pretty well be summed up into one of the following categories: a) several didn't feel pro's presence was necessary at their local shoots, b) one who felt the pro's presence did legitimize their local tournament and that their local pro's were attending, c) several felt the pro's had enough on their plates already between major tournaments, work and family, and, d) several indicated they did have pro's attending their local tournaments. So, maybe you need to work on some non-aggressive way, maybe via your state's NFAA Pro Rep, to find out possibly why the few pro's your state has aren't traveling to your local shoots. Possibly its something as simple as your location to the few pro's you do have in-state?

Sorry things aren't working out the way you maybe hoped in your neck of the woods. Maybe Bear in mind, legitimizing a range or tournament has more to do with making things fun for the archers, offering the types of tournaments they want to shoot, novelties, good food/snacks, nice facilities, hosting tournaments, tournament scheduling (i.e. work with other locals to not conflict schedules and don't conflict with regional major tournaments, etc.) and most importantly, imo, attracting archers from other local clubs. Manytimes the latter has to do with how often your own club members travel to other local tournaments as well. I can just about guarantee that if your club travels well to other local shoots, other local clubs will tend to reciprocate with their members slating your tournaments into their busy schedules over another club's.

I would theorize that unless your state has some common household name pros in it, people are not first and foremost going to attend your local shoots just because one of your state's pros is attending. I know its not that way around here anyways. WI does have some big name competitors who can and have won on the big national stages. People don't flock to the local shoots because one of those guys is planning on showing up. Everyone, including the pros shooting locally around here, do so because they enjoy the atmosphere, range, and efforts of the tournament host and wish to make an effort to help support those clubs whenever possible. There are a few who do make, or attempt to make, their living off archery. I have no problems with those guys begging off the local scene. I know how much it costs to travel to tournaments as well as you do and when you are required to attend x number of major tournaments, as some contracts require, you're not going to get the opportunity or time to even make it to the local shoots even if you wanted to.

Just tossing out a few extra thoughts on the topic. I've been around this game for a lot of years as well, both shooting open/amateur and as a pro. Before I opted to join the pro division I know I wasn't going to the local shoots to meet pros -- I went to national tournaments to do that. And I've yet to hear someone who was not a pro state, "I'm not going to so-and-so's shoot because there aren't going to be any pro's there"! They don't go because they don't care for the type of round being shot, the facilities, the way the club runs their shoots, the awards the club gives out, the food, so-and-so's club won't come to my club's events, and a host of other reasons -- not because a pro or two isn't planning on attending. As several of the pro's did already reply, most of us don't treat archery any differently than the non-pro's. We (pro's) all love the game and shoot whenever, whereever we can. We just happen to pay an extra $75 per year and added tournament entry fees to do so. Most of us aren't getting paid by our sponsors to shoot or go to shoots. No doubt the equipment is nice, but that's not what most of us are in it for and it certainly doesn't pay the way to play to go to all the shoots we go to.....just ask our better 1/2's! 

For what it's worth, if I lived out in your neck of the woods I'd be at any local NFAA rounds you put on during the summer. If your range is the one near Spokane that hosted the NAA field several times, you have a beautiful range and some great people who worked hard at making those tournaments a pleasure to shoot. Wish I could have made it to all the NAA field events you hosted, you guys did a good job. Just need to figure out what your customers, the archers in general and not just a few pro's, would like to see in terms of rounds, dates, etc., in order to get the local scene to pick up.

>>--------->


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## bownut65 (Jun 16, 2009)

on here are 3 more that most weekends are at a local shot
Mel Shrewsberry
Richard Leftwhich
Brian Bailey


I really dont think the post actually checked other pros before he started complaining.Yes there are some who never go to a local shoots but so be it,


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## Diane Watson (Oct 12, 2002)

kjwhfsd, 

I truly appreciate your enthusiasm in regards to wanting to get more archers at your tournaments, however, as I stated to you on the phone - "I, nor can NFAA require that an NFAA Professional Archer attend your shoots." "I also said that I would get your NFAA Director and Pro Representative involved to work with the Director of your state to come up with a solution." 

I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish in this thread...there are currently 4 Professional Archers in the State of Washington. There have been more in the past but of those that their Pro Dues is current - there are 4. The closest Pro being 53 minutes from you and the farthest being 2 hours and 13 minutes (according to Mapquest).


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Its gotten so bad tha Mother has been called


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## JAY JAMES (Mar 8, 2004)

Well guys I would thank yall that have back us pros on this thread. I go to many local shoots in Louisiana, but I am the only Nfaa Pro in Louisiana, and there is only three of us that shoot 3-D and two Senior Pros that shoot 3-D, and we are scattered all over the state. That makes it hard to have all of us in one place at a time. 

I run an archery shop, own my on string company, go to 8 to 10 major events a year, and try to have life on top of that. So let me go by Wallmart and buy more time. That way I can go to more local shoots. What the gent that started this does not get is that very few pros make their living being pros. 

Threads like this really get to me. Most of us shoot because we are competive people, and while we are at shoots we act like a pro should because we love the sport like everyone else, but come on guys don't bash us when we are not there. We all have a life outside of archery too.


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## Nobody's B (Apr 9, 2009)

doesn't it say NFAA Pro forum at the top and if you are not a pro to be respectful because this is not your forum. I think that you are pissing alot of poeple off. I think the moderator should pull this thread.....Dude call your 4[ pros and ask them yourself y they don't come to your shoots


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## shooter82 (Jan 1, 2007)

*come on*

this thread is truely something kj i understand your trying to make something good happen i honestly do but if you rant and rave and complain it isnt going to do no one no good i agree with alot of people on here that have left post pros have a life of there own they can not come running everytime you open the gates dont run down pros in any state any because you had bad luck im sure alot of men and women have enough to deal with then seeing a post like this i mean i have put post on here about needing help some no pro or no one replyed to it i didnt get into this ordeal that you have got yourself into here life goes on and you make do however it may come about and it was dissapointing but you just got to go on i have watched this post from the start i dont care what you do with this post i said my peace im done with it


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

kjwhfsd said:


> Just about every shoot in Washington with the exeption of a few in the sw corner they dont come to. With the exception of the state multi color (Vegas) they dont come shoot the state championships. In 7 years at at the present location of my home club there has been 1 pro shoot at it. Evergreen archers that has hosted the NAA Fita Field Championship doesnt get any pros to show up and shoot unless its a national tourny. Those are just 2 examples then there is Darrington I know that you have heard of that club pro attendence nill at club shoots there. I am not going to name names of the pros that dont come shoot yes we have a couple that do try to attend and many that dont seen to care. Its not just here I have talked to people around the country about this. They dont see the local pros at local club shoots. I know and understand about bad bales there are a couple of clubs that I hesitate to go shoot because of that but that is not all clubs. I'm not complaining about a shoot that my club put on. I am going to say this the state field Championship is in 2 weeks here. The club that is putting it on just put in the field course some pros here better get there and help bring some shooters to it. That club did alot of work to not have anyone come shoot. I understand sponsers wanting them to shoot big shoots but with out local archers buying there sponsers product there wont be any sponsers.


Kent I know what you are saying but you aren't going about it correctly. In Washington there are 5 maybe 6 NFAA Pro's and they each have their own favorite type of archery. And I know for a fact some have attended your clubs shoots this year. (Safari). And they have attended others across the state. There are too many shoots and clubs in Washington for them to even come close to attending one at each club per year. Be glad that you get attendance especially a weekend when there is more than one venue to choose from.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Diane Watson said:


> kjwhfsd,
> 
> I truly appreciate your enthusiasm in regards to wanting to get more archers at your tournaments, however, as I stated to you on the phone - "I, nor can NFAA require that an NFAA Professional Archer attend your shoots." "I also said that I would get your NFAA Director and Pro Representative involved to work with the Director of your state to come up with a solution."
> 
> I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish in this thread...there are currently 4 Professional Archers in the State of Washington. There have been more in the past but of those that their Pro Dues is current - there are 4. The closest Pro being 53 minutes from you and the farthest being 2 hours and 13 minutes (according to Mapquest).


Are you keeping tabs on us scrubs too.  I hope that you have that crispie of mine, that you earned in Redding, hangin in a prestiegious spot. :tongue: Hows the foot healin?


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## promod1385 (Oct 3, 2007)

You know what i really get a kick out of? The fact that Mr White doesnt even know how to spell the names of the companies he is on staff for (might want to edit your sig). "Vapor Trails" Thats good advertising ;-)


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

USNarcher said:


> Kent I know what you are saying but you aren't going about it correctly. In Washington there are 5 maybe 6 NFAA Pro's and they each have their own favorite type of archery. And I know for a fact some have attended your clubs shoots this year. (Safari). And they have attended others across the state. There are too many shoots and clubs in Washington for them to even come close to attending one at each club per year. Be glad that you get attendance especially a weekend when there is more than one venue to choose from.


I never said 1 shoot at each club. I know Who shoots at my club. When was the last time that there was more than 1 pro shooting at a State championship? Other than the Multi color.


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## lane preston (Mar 31, 2005)

I didnt read this whole thread because it is nonsence. you should promote in a possitive mannor. I dont know of A pro that wont help or talk to anyone that want to talk with them. I spend alot of time helping other and shooting as many locals as i can. I paid be bucks to get certified as an archery coach. Hmmmmm, I cant think of any one person that i have charged. i enjoy helping other enjoy the sport. 
My contract at work is up and i tightened my belt just in case of a strike but i still am open to helping others. i have a student that is from michigan and traveled to texas for a 6 week building job that reports back to me with his shooting progress and for more tips.
Michigan pros are very active in state and local shoots. we have a little association shoot this sunday in stockbridge michigan and counting myself we will have 2-3 pros and 1 senior pro shooting.
We do pro/am shoots at the state shoots to... are you listening???? PROMOTE archery. to PROMOTE a friendly env. 
TRy it sometime, possitively promote. it works!
for MOST of you that make this sport happen keep it up! and THANKYOU!
lane


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

kjwhfsd said:


> You may not like it but here goes. You pros need to get off your blanks and go the the local shoots. What are you to good for that you only go to where the money is. Wrong you need to promote the sport that starts at the local clubs.


I have hosted shoots for several years...and never had any trouble attracting high profile professionals...including:

Chance Beoubeauf
Nathan Brooks
Allen Conner
Joella Bates
Larry Odell
All of the Goza brothers
Jackie Caudell and wife
Mitch Putnam
And even OBT in the flesh

If you host a quality tournament...and gain a reputation for setting a good course...they will come.


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

kjwhfsd said:


> I never said 1 shoot at each club. I know Who shoots at my club. *When was the last time that there was more than 1 pro shooting at a State championship?* Other than the Multi color.


according to the Washington State Archery Association's web site, this year.

multicolor champ= 2 PMFS 1 FPFS
Blue face= 3 PMFS
Safari 2 PMFS

here's the link. http://www.washingtonarchery.org/championships.htm


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

kjwhfsd said:


> I never said 1 shoot at each club. I know Who shoots at my club. When was the last time that there was more than 1 pro shooting at a State championship? Other than the Multi color.


Kent. We only have 1 "True Pro" in the State, none do it for a living. There are 3 others that have their prefered types of shoots. Excluding the indoors. All shoot Safari, 2 shoot Target/Fita and none really like Field. They all go to an occasional 3-D in their area. So what if they don't go to the state field. We aren't hosting for the PRO's like the NFAA Nationals. We are trying to get new people involved and provide the best possible shoot for the "regulars".


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

lets try another angle. instead of pointing fingers and trying to lay blame............and i am guilty to a degree of it too

NOW......
how do we get the rock stars to come out so that the groupies will follow? it was built, now how do ya get em to come?

does it take a yearly event like what happens in the NC/VA/MD area? how do you encourage states with a disproportionate amount of pros per state size to come and play in your sandbox? this now becomes an issue of marketing. the hillbilly and the bigfoot classic are 2 shoots that are well attended and well spoken of. the hillbilly more-so. what are they doing right that the rest of the clubs arent?

do you hold money shoots? do you add on an unofficial money class on top of the regularly scheduled shoots for another $25? do you establish a minimum number for money class entries before it is on? the current trend of archery is driven by money. just look at about any thread about 3D, it always ends up with the money trump card being played.

if you have no pros that you can attract, how do you get the joes to come? how do you get the best joes to bring their A game? maybe the mid-atlantic and south eastern states have something with their promotional campaign and 'come on down' way. yes washington is a large state, but they have 3 clubs with field courses within 2hrs drive from downtown seattle. one of them is darrington. thats more than some states have total


you cant force someone to be pro no matter how good they are. a person's finances and family situation will dictate what events and where they go to participate in. if they cant afford the higher entry fees, so be it. there is nothing anyone can do about it.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

rock monkey said:


> lets try another angle. instead of pointing fingers and trying to lay blame............and i am guilty to a degree of it too
> 
> NOW......
> how do we get the rock stars to come out so that the groupies will follow? it was built, now how do ya get em to come?
> ...


What we do is advertise here on Archerytalk. Lots of trash talk and keeping the interest alive. Then we follow it up with a great place to shoot and inventive extracurricular activities. ie the Hinkle Monster shoot. Once they start to come they will revisit year after year. It takes guys like Onebowtie, Darrin and Hinky along with others that share the same goal. Make it so your event will wanted to be attended. But if you are talking about 3D then you probably need to go to the other forum that the foam deer shooters are lurking. I think that you guys are putting to much emphasis on having Pros show up. For the most part most of the Joes are not impressed with the PRO. However they may be interested in the individual. I would rather have 0 pros and 100 shooters then to have 1 or 2 pros and 50 shooters. Just MHO
Hope that you find for what you are seeking. Ed


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

What's a "Hinky"? :bartstush: Who is Onebowtie?


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> What's a "Hinky"? :bartstush: Who is Onebowtie?


i think it's a street west of enumclaw on 410


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

just tryin to steer this into a productive venture instead of a finger-pointing/name calling event.




Rattleman said:


> What we do is advertise here on Archerytalk. Lots of trash talk and keeping the interest alive. Then we follow it up with a great place to shoot and inventive extracurricular activities. ie the Hinkle Monster shoot. Once they start to come they will revisit year after year. It takes guys like Onebowtie, Darrin and Hinky along with others that share the same goal. Make it so your event will wanted to be attended. But if you are talking about 3D then you probably need to go to the other forum that the foam deer shooters are lurking. I think that you guys are putting to much emphasis on having Pros show up. For the most part most of the Joes are not impressed with the PRO. However they may be interested in the individual. I would rather have 0 pros and 100 shooters then to have 1 or 2 pros and 50 shooters. Just MHO
> Hope that you find for what you are seeking. Ed


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

AT_X_HUNTER said:


> according to the Washington State Archery Association's web site, this year.
> 
> multicolor champ= 2 PMFS 1 FPFS
> Blue face= 3 PMFS
> ...


Alwine is not a NFAA pro he shot target once last year dont think we will see him again. Maybe if its held in spokane and he is not at a IBO shoot. Didnt think Cory was a pro. Still its not a very good showing. 

Again I am not talking about my club for those of you that dont know my club hosts one of the biggest shoots in the NW. I am talking about other clubs
and not just in WA. 

Matt you remember at convention a pro challenging us to bring more shooters to the shoots. I challenged him to bring some pro's with him he hasnt been showing up.

While the attendance at my clubs field shoot sucked that is not what I am talking about. Same weekend as NFAA unmarked 3D, the 600, Same weekend as one of the big 3D's just down the road, people trying to get the new course for the state Field, yes attendance will be down.


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

rock monkey said:


> lets try another angle. instead of pointing fingers and trying to lay blame............and i am guilty to a degree of it too
> 
> NOW......
> how do we get the rock stars to come out so that the groupies will follow? it was built, now how do ya get em to come?
> ...


Actually the number is 5


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

USNarcher said:


> What's a "Hinky"? :bartstush: Who is Onebowtie?


The guy in the beer commercial. The real man of Mystery. "I don't always drink beer but when I do it is Dos Equis" The Legend, the Myth the man.

And Hinky is just a string maker and NOT a Joe anymore


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

*pros*

I don't know about everyone else but I know the Arkansas pros go to local shoots. I know two that run or have ran their own local shoots. Nathan Brooks shot the schloarship shoot before the London asa and shot 1 8, 1 10, and 23 12's that day. The course was ridicsouly easy I heard(didn't get to go due to lack of work=lack of bowshooting money), with most of the "local pros" shooting 20 up or so. There is only one Arkansas pro(national level) that I've never seen or heard of at a shoot.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

kjwhfsd said:


> Alwine is not a NFAA pro he shot target once last year dont think we will see him again. Maybe if its held in spokane and he is not at a IBO shoot. Didnt think Cory was a pro. Still its not a very good showing.
> 
> Again I am not talking about my club for those of you that dont know my club hosts one of the biggest shoots in the NW. I am talking about other clubs
> and not just in WA.
> ...


Kent like I said there just aren't any "true pro's" in our state. 1.5 tops. And of them they have their prefered style and they do attend those shoots. Now Chinook gets a lot of Pro's because they draw the Oregun studs and there is decent money involved. Who cares if there are pro's there. The most important thing is that everyone has a good time and if we can introduce just 1 new person at each state event then we have done a good job.


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## dragman (Jul 12, 2008)

i gotta say that I see a few pro or semi-pro shooters from time to time at local shoots. I think it is great that they go to the locals and shoot with everyone! One of the greatest learning experiences I have ever had is when the best shooter I have ever watched asked me if I wanted to shoot with him and his friend for the day. He is a Pro level guy and I learned a lot! I will always be greatfull to him for his time and knowledge. I think the Pro's do way more for this sport than they get credit for. I would like to be shooting Pro in a year or two and I hope I have a chance to do the same for someone else.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

ok.....

another question......

for the rock stars and the 545+ shooters, what do you like in courses as far as features and what would attract you to shoot a course and include it in your local travels?

this is a constructive criticism thing, not a finger pointing blame game. help out those that have courses improve them and those that are looking at building one to use as a guide.

do not get into the 'awards for showing up' stuff. thats a different issue altogether and not related to this thread.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

rock monkey said:


> ok.....
> 
> another question......
> 
> ...


Bales that stop the arrows and are easy to pull and do not leave too much residue on the shafts. Multiple target faces on the mid range targets (ie 35 fan, 40 and 45 yarders and the 36 fan, 40 and 44 on the hunter) Water on the range, clear lanes and make it NOT Boring. Vary the shooting stations whenever possible. Make the range as scenic as possible. Lets not forget CLEAN. Kitchen that sells a variety of foods. Good Hosts. On anniversary shoots, offer goodies instead of awards. Some give out key chains, coffee mugs,towels you get the idea. Good practice targets that hold the arrows and clean faces each day even on the practice butts. If the terrain is hard then make steps or bridges when needed. Remember you are the host of this party. It is the same as having a party at your house. Make it enjoyable to your guests and remember they are your guests and they come before you. Oh and don't forget to mark your stakes so they can be read. Make sure the directions from one target to the next is clearly marked. Also be sure that the marked yardages are correct. The NFAA rules state to measure using a tape but not a range finder (Not sure why)


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

because some rangefinders can be up to a yard off and not everyone knows how to use em to get them to read on the dot. no 2 rangefinders will read the same consistantly. a taped range IS accurate.



Rattleman said:


> Bales that stop the arrows and are easy to pull and do not leave too much residue on the shafts. Multiple target faces on the mid range targets (ie 35 fan, 40 and 45 yarders and the 36 fan, 40 and 44 on the hunter) Water on the range, clear lanes and make it NOT Boring. Vary the shooting stations whenever possible. Make the range as scenic as possible. Lets not forget CLEAN. Kitchen that sells a variety of foods. Good Hosts. On anniversary shoots, offer goodies instead of awards. Some give out key chains, coffee mugs,towels you get the idea. Good practice targets that hold the arrows and clean faces each day even on the practice butts. If the terrain is hard then make steps or bridges when needed. Remember you are the host of this party. It is the same as having a party at your house. Make it enjoyable to your guests and remember they are your guests and they come before you. Oh and don't forget to mark your stakes so they can be read. Make sure the directions from one target to the next is clearly marked. Also be sure that the marked yardages are correct. *The NFAA rules state to measure using a tape but not a range finder (Not sure why)*


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

Or these grown individuals can do what they want without running it by you. 

:izza:



kjwhfsd said:


> You may not like it but here goes. You pros need to get off your blanks and go the the local shoots. What are you to good for that you only go to where the money is. Wrong you need to promote the sport that starts at the local clubs.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i'm trying to help the clubs find ways to improve their grounds and generate more interest in the shooting side of the sport. the more people that come to play, the more word gets out. the more the high score shooters hear about the winning scores in their respective classes, the more they want to see what it's about at a club. word of mouth within the archery community is what helps clubs thrive. that is the fundamentals of a web forum.

bring the rock stars in and the groupies will follow. if there are no rock stars, use the club to cultivate them. it's a pretty nice thing to say that the champ of this tourny is a member of this club. brings a little pride to them. clubs love to display their members' accomplishments.

a field course is a static facility. everyone within the same class has the same opportunities as the next excluding the weather. when many people shoot the same course over a period of time, they can judge their progress against themselves and others. you develop the smack talkin leagues.


give a product that challenges as well as rewards the person shooting, not giving them something for participating, the skill and ability improves. when scores and skill improve, confidence improves. when confidence improves, the desire to excel increases. when an archer feels that he needs to step up to shoot with the better shooters, he can. the pro division is just that. the best who compete with the best to prove to themselves who the best is that beat their best game.



the rules are the rules, the nfaa puts them out. all clubs that are nfaa affiliated clubs use them. it's not like the rubber deer stuff where it kinda is the rules when it's convenient. if a club wants to pass they nfaa range inspection, they have no choice.

i dont write em, but i do question the ones that make no sense. the rules are the rules. the book says no rangefinders are to be used for setting stakes, and that's that. have a problem with that, take it up with your state reps and get it changed.



kjwhsfd may have the tact of a forging hammer, but he does make a good point. me, im as tactfull as a sledgehammer. i do take the other side's point into consideration.


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## Primeshooter67 (Mar 24, 2009)

lane preston said:


> I didnt read this whole thread because it is nonsence. you should promote in a possitive mannor. I dont know of A pro that wont help or talk to anyone that want to talk with them. I spend alot of time helping other and shooting as many locals as i can. I paid be bucks to get certified as an archery coach. Hmmmmm, I cant think of any one person that i have charged. i enjoy helping other enjoy the sport.
> My contract at work is up and i tightened my belt just in case of a strike but i still am open to helping others. i have a student that is from michigan and traveled to texas for a 6 week building job that reports back to me with his shooting progress and for more tips.
> Michigan pros are very active in state and local shoots. we have a little association shoot this sunday in stockbridge michigan and counting myself we will have 2-3 pros and 1 senior pro shooting.
> We do pro/am shoots at the state shoots to... are you listening???? PROMOTE archery. to PROMOTE a friendly env.
> ...


+1 thanks Lane , for giving me the knowledge ,and the drive to pursue this sport !! thank you !!! david


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## Primeshooter67 (Mar 24, 2009)

here is a guy (lane preston ) who has coached me from day one ! has tuned every one of my bows ,restrung them ,and has helped me progress from a finger puncher to a good bt shooter this is the kinda guy you want promoting this great sport , and im just one of his students great job lane thanks again !!!! david


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## dead eye dick (Sep 1, 2004)

just had our state target shoot colorado ,this weekend we had 5 pros who really went at it with each other, the only complaint i have and its not only here but i see it at national shoots it would be nice if all the pro stayed around for the awards ceremony after the shoots, i think the kids would really appreciate it , and dont tell me their busy ,were all busy ,i think thats part of being a pro and supporting the sport


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## blazenarrow (Feb 6, 2009)

You know yourself, as I that a sponsor would rather see you at a bigger shoot then a local.. That being said If you had a choice to shoot for money or medal.. What would you do.. I do think that most pros do shoot local events when they can.. kEEPS THEM IN PRACTICE. Besides where I come from if you shoot better then the next guy your labeld as a cheater.. Most pros don't want to hear it or deal with it. They worked to hard to fall into this game


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## jrbj617 (Jul 15, 2009)

*Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.*



dead eye dick said:


> hell im not a pro just voicing my thoughts sorry if they dont agree with your agenda, it just seems to me the pros have a lot of shoots to go to and their going to go to the ones that make them money, whats that old saying time is money ,


You know what, time is money, but one thing that everyone needs to realize is that not all pros go to tournaments just for the money. Starting out as a pro is tough. My husband is an NFAA pro member but he also has to work a full time job to help take care of his family. Of course the pros are going to try to go to all of the big tournaments that they can because most of them are trying to make that their profession. They would love to be able to shoot their bows for a living and have that pay the bills instead of working a 40 hr(or more) week and then driving 8 hrs(or more) to the next big tournament so that they can compete doing something that they love to do. Shooting pro can be a huge financial burden for some people. Not all pros get money thrown at them by sponsors starting out. So sometimes you might have to sacrafice not going to local shoots to be able to afford to go to the bigger shoots. I am sure everyone is doing the best they can with our economy being in the state that it is in. All you can do is spread the word about your club shoots and hope for the best.


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