# Safety slack in my hinge:



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I think helpful to all... Thanks, Padgett....


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Setting a hinge really slow is something that I heard about right from the start of my hinge shooting and it is something that I always hated, In the beginning i saw a bunch of guys that shot a hinge that was really fast but they drew with their thumb and index finger only and then once to anchor they would rotate the hinge and get their ring and middle finger on the hinge to compensate for the super fast setting. I never did think that this was a good idea and always avoided it like the plague, I can honestly say that it is one method of setting up a hinge that i have never tried to do.

A slow hinge where there is a lot of deliberate rotation to get it to fire is something that I have worked on for years and for me the one thing that always seems to pop up is the effort that it takes to do all of that rotation messes with my float pattern and it causes me to shoot poorly. It also causes me to shoot late in my shot window and my float isn't as good in the later half of the shot window.

For me when I watch the really good shooters I have to watch really close to see anything going on in their hinge and sooner or later you can watch enough to see what they are doing but it is so subtle. For me learning how to store a lot of safety slack in my hinge setup allows me to draw safely and then execute with little to no movement which allows my float pattern to do its thing without me screwing it up.

With this method of setting up a hinge I can switch from firing method to firing method by just saying to myself that on this shot I am going to yield and then I can come to anchor and it just happens without me having to deliberately do things. To me this really comes in handy when the pressure is on because anxiety causes me to have extra muscle tension in my grip and forearms and this slows things down and they don't happen as smoothly so the awesome shooting I saw in my training isn't what I see in competition. With this kind of setup I can compete and actually see the same kind of shooting as I do in practice because even though my muscles have that anxiety going through them and it slows me down just a little I was shooting at 2 seconds in practice and now under pressure I am shooting at 4 seconds. I am still really good at 4 seconds.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

By the way you had better learn to draw your bow without using your bicep because bicep tension is what causes you to punch yourself in the face, I can totally misfire anytime I want to and my hand just comes straight back without hitting me in the mouth or nose because my bicep is totally relaxed. I use full back tension to draw my bow and I also use the jesse broadwater or reo wild type draw cycle.


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## Justin (Aug 11, 2003)

this is a great post.. I am guilty of drawing with thumb first finger.. and I have an occasional misfire.. I have to pay attention on every draw.. and my hinge isn't half as hot as I like it. I have only had one hinge forever, should be a new one in my mailbox tomorrow, looking forward to playing with different settings but being able to go back ot what I know without messing everything up in the middle of league.. it got me last week, was looking for my first 300 60X.. about 45 in I shot a 0.. 295 59x :/


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

great info thank u for the post


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

Interesting.

I actually don't use the thumb peg on my HT 3. Mine is set fairly cold, to the point where when I attempt to try someone else's hinge on a Saunder's Firing line, I can't even get it drawn back half way before it misfires, I have to do a very deliberate cocking forward of the handle. On the flip side, they have almost no shot at getting mine to fire, hell, they struggle to get it to the click.

I draw with all 3 fingers, when I get to anchor and roll my back shoulder down (I've had an issue in the recent past where my release elbow and shoulder were pointing up) and settle in, it usually clicks, there are time where I need to rotate back a hair. I think I'm at a pretty good speed for me. Are there times where I'm "hung up"? Sure, but that is something out of alignment, if I can just learn to let down and start over each and every time I feel that.

Padgett, what do you think would happen to your routine if you didn't use a peg? I personally relied on that peg way to much, and I believe it caused *me* to set mine way too hot, which resulted in too many misfires while settling in. Of course, it has got to the point where now trying to shoot a thumb trigger feels really uncomfortable and my hand feels all bunched up and tense. I just got an Absolute 360 with the pinky trigger that I'm playing with a bit, no plans currently to switch over, but I'm definitely going to give it some run, especially when I start shooting outdoors. Of course with snow and ice up to my knees in the back yard right now, that is a little hard to imagine right now.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I'm still at a point where I need mine set slow. I'm just not consistent enough with my hand position yet. I've thought about training with the clicker to set up but would prefer not going down that path.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Thunder eagle, I had a guy asking about not using a peg this winter and I set two of my hinges up without a peg with my hinge setup routine and it works really good.

I actually really like it but my fingers get really sore, this is why I don't like shooting a thumb trigger release. I have always had sensitive fingers.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

The hinge setup routine is on my website so if you haven't used it yet you have got to do it, it is a game changer.


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## lknchoppers (Jun 13, 2008)

I don't use a peg. I pretty much draw with my index finger. I just couldn't get used to the peg. I feel very secure drawing and letting down this way, my other two fingers are on the but just barely until I am at full draw. Once I get my middle and ring ringer set my safety slack is gone and the release moves to the 0.004" click, and then my firing engine starts as the pin floats. Padgett, I would like to visit your website how do I get to it. I have read quite a few of your posts and they have been very informative and helpful. I have been shooting my hinge for four years and enjoy to consistency and spectator aspect of shooting a hinge.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Mine are also probably set slower than most as I also do not use a peg, but I do draw with near even pressure on my 3 fingers, so there is very little, if any, "safety slack". I set the device in my hand, hook it up and draw to anchor....I'm just very comfortable shooting a hinge because I have not shot with anything else, so I do not feel a need for any form of safety. Yes, I do still get the occasional oops if I'm not concentrating properly on what I should be doing, but even those are now few and far between. Sort of like moving the shift selector in the car from park to drive--there is no longer a need to count the clicks; it just goes where it is supposed to.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Just do a Google search for :

Padgettarchery blog


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Montigre, I really did enjoy shooting without a peg. Now I didn't do it long enough to master it to the point where it was absolutely perfect because it birds so much but I did notice how it basically eliminates the transition feeling when you come to anchor. When using a peg there is a transition getting off the peg and makes your hand lock up. With no peg your hand stays very willing to rotate or yield with not locking up.

Forms though I have so many hundreds of hours working on this transition that it isn't a issue anymore and the help drawing with a peg is just so much a positive thing I just can't do with out.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Padgett said:


> It personally allows me to draw safely and then be right on the edge of firing so that I don't have to do a enormous amount of rotation in the hand or back tension to produce the rotation. For shooters looking to find a advantage it may be something for them to explore or they can just set their hinge really slow and suffer blank baling for months.


Being a non-peg user, When I get to anchor, if I have done everything correctly, my release clicks and I know it is positioned at a point that I can begin my aiming process without thinking anymore of the release function. I can draw safely, have never spent months on a blank bale, and have no extra movement to "get into" firing position. When the hinge fires, there really is no cleanly observable rotation, although I know it has occurred due to the law of physics, it is really not perceptible. 

I feel this safety slack may be adding an additional step for new hinge shooters. If they are using a thumb peg, they already have a built-in safety without altering their normal sear setting to over emphasize it. That's why I also do not advocate people to learn on a hinge with a safety mechanism, especially when using a thumb peg. There is no real need to add additional steps to the process.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Montigre, For your application your safety slack is built into your draw cycle and the entire time you are drawing the bow you are diminishing it to the point where as you come to anchor and settle in to the x the hinge clicks, your safety slack is totally dependent on using the exact same grip and and same draw cycle each and every shot.

At any time if you drew with a funny grip or different draw cycle your mechanical actions could totally send your release into or past the click and possibly fire the bow. Every hinge must be set up with a certain amount of safety slack period because their is no extra trigger, the handle is the trigger. All I am doing is giving a alternative way to look at hinge shooting and the way it can be set up.

So many people set them way slow on purpose and they then have to learn to shoot the hinge with a huge amount of rotation that is either generated with finger rotation or back tension rotation or extreme stretching of the hand. To me this is a lot to ask from people that are just learning and the source of their frustration. This little article that I wrote gives a look into how you can use the thumb peg to your advantage instead of just something you are holding.

I shoot with a click and with smooth moons and without a thumb peg and I have became proficient with leaving my thumb on the peg through out the shot and taking it completely off during the shot. I have some methods that I prefer over other methods and I like to present my findings from each of them to guys here that may get something from them.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Montigre, I shot two different hinges without a thumb peg for the few weeks when I worked on it and I can honestly say that I preferred doing it without the click. If I didn't have sensitive fingers that get sore especially my index finger I would really work on the smooth moon setting with no thumb peg, to me it produced some of the smoothest hinge shooting I have ever experienced. I was able to draw the bow with all fingers equally and did so using my hinge setup routine and then transition smoothly into my firing engine without any funny float issues and it felt really nice. In the end my fingers stopped me from training with it.


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## PSE Archer (Oct 26, 2014)

Man, you people put way to much into this.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Padget, thanks, but no thanks. I shot without a click for several years, so know very well how that feels, but I much prefer to use one now with my current shot routine and set up. The click does not cause me to flinch, tighten up, or pause my set up into anchor--it's just something that is there working in the background. :wink:


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Yep, we sure do. I love shooting and I love not missing for days at a time and I also love passing on the things that I learned that allow me to do so. For free without some pay pal or hundreds of dollars required to spend a weekend of seminar.

I don't claim that my current level of understanding will stay the same for the rest of my archery career, I hope that I continue to evolve in my personal shooting and my understanding so that I can help at a even higher level. I have been teaching math to hundreds of little kids who don't want to learn for years and I am really good at finding ways to explain things in terms that reach them. Here at least the people are really interested so it makes getting to them much easier.


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## eclark53520 (Sep 11, 2012)

Releases, engines, etc are all very personal. There's no one solution that's going to work for everyone. One size fits all, almost always means one size fits nobody.

There may be best practices and general guidelines, which I think is where Padgett is going with these posts. I don't think he's saying that if you're taking different approach, you're wrong.


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## Shogun1 (Jan 31, 2015)

Padgett, 
You hit it on perfect with that last post. The true test of a real teacher is one that is willing to explore multiple methods of getting the point across. You can tell some students something once. Others, you have to tell them the same thing in more than one way. Yet another group, you will have to ask another instructor for a cue that you're not using --yet. The next group -- you will never reach, but another teacher will be able to. The final group -- isn't ever going to get the point -- at least not in the resources available.

Like you, I had been frustrated by the notion of setting a hinge really cold and trying to not pull the sight off target. I've also been frustrated by a release that would fire sometimes and would freeze up that I couldn't make it go off. 

Not to hijack your thread, I would offer the following process that has worked for me as I have helped others learn to shoot a hinge release.

Learning to shoot a hinge release.

1. Plenty of books, articles, and opinions -- why this one?

The basic premise is that a hinge fired through back tension helps achieve a "surprise release" and avoid target panic by allowing the release process to run in the mental background while you focus on the sight picture.

Raging debates cover various methods of "making" or "allowing" the release to fire ---- PBT, rotating the hinge with the fingers, grip it and rip it, settle and just wait until the tension suddenly drops out of your hand and the release slams forward.

Issues that complicate the learning process: 
Fear of the release -- premature firing
Pulling the sight picture out of alignment
Not being smooth in the transitions from hookup at brace height all the way through follow through

The learning process has to include an understanding of form, but the following is not an all encompassing exposition on form -- head erect, one eye vs two eyes open, sight picture alignment ... but some aspects of form have to be addressed

2. Setup

Release picked out
Grip on the release picked out 
-- hook (release held in the intermediate phalanges)
-- or brass knuckles (release held in the primary phalanges -- tucked in tight close to the metacarpals)

Draw length set up 
Predicated on a relaxed bone on bone form -- 
1. Drawside forearm in line with the arrow when viewed from above
2. Drawside forearm inclined with elbow slightly higher than the release when viewed from the side
(Sets up being able to move the drawside elbow later)
3. Bowside arm low in shoulder socket
4. Bowside hand rotated from vertical (clockwise for right handed archer -- counterclockwise for left handed archer) -- sets up to eliminate torque and to transfer bow draw weight onto skeletal system instead of keeping it in the muscular system

A. Bow hand to draw elbow = constant
B. Choice of release and grip on the release impact release elbow to the jaw distance is a variable
C. The "bow's draw length" + the length of the d-loop is another variable

A = B + C

Release setup for learning to draw to anchor and settle into aiming: COLD -- as cold as it will go.

3. Draw weight set up
A. Not what you CAN manage
B. What you can easily and smoothly pull from brace height to anchor -- while keeping the pin inside the confines of the center target of an NFAA five spot (within the blue -- not necessarily within the five or the X)

3. The draw

Normal process for nocking an arrow, setting bow hand on the grip, etc
Hookup -- set bow hand final. Set bow arm and shoulder alignment
Grab a thumb full of thumb peg on the release and apply a little tension onto the string
Look at the aim point. 
Raise the bow by rotating the bow arm and shoulders as a unit (keeps the bow arm anchored low in the bow side shoulder) -- put the pin and scope just over your line of sight to the aimpoint
Draw focusing on maintaining pressure on the thumb peg and the middle finger (ie not on the index finger)


4. The settle into anchor

Focus on maintaining pressure on the thumb peg while settling into anchor
Focus on transferring pressure from the thumb to the index finger (avoid dumping the thumb peg as a "reverse thumb activated trigger"). As a technique, I advocate keeping the middle finger hook nice and relaxed. But tighten your index finger to disengage the thumb from the peg.
Then focus on relaxing the hand and fingers into a relaxed stretched out position (hook or brass knuckles). 

{The alternative is to draw with heavy pressure on the thumb and index finger. But this alternative leaves you guessing on where relaxed neutral is as you start to rotate the release trying to get the middle finger (or other fingers engaged).}

Focus on letting the system settle into your line of sight to the aimpoint (keeps you from shooting the wrong target WHEN you finally get around to shooting)
Focus on the aim point and sight picture.

Don't attempt to shoot -- let down and set it all up again.

Things to look for 
A. Bobbles
B. Abrupt transitions
C. The "urge" to shoot it NOW (remember this isn't about shooting ----YET)

5. Mechanical motion

Put the bow away.
Put the release away

Let's learn the draw side motion that will ultimately fire the release WHEN we get to that point.

Hang a towel from a door frame
Take up a stance so that your draw side elbow would just barely touch the towel if you were standing there at full draw.
Set yourself in your full draw position with your draw side elbow against the towel. You should have no tension in your form at this point (you are not holding anything). (LATER when we get around to shooting, you will want this same absence of muscular tension in your shoulders, arms, hands, and fingers.)

Without moving your drawside shoulder further aft, move your draw side ELBOW to fire the release --- the upper arm has to rotate in the shoulder socket

A. Focus on your draw side elbow -- do not move the bow side arm. This is not a bi-lateral exercise. 
B. Move it across the towel from your front to your back (not further away bow hand) and slightly down. 
C. Think -- draw a slanted line on the towel -- not punch a hole in the towel -- with your drawside elbow -- with much displacement of the towel. Very lightly wipe your elbow on the towel.
D. If your drawside forearm was already in line with the imaginary arrow, this movement takes it out of line -- toward a position that would be indicative of a draw length that is too long.
E. When you start this drill, allow yourself a pretty gross movement of the draw side elbow. Once you get the sense of it - start focusing on the touch point between your drawside elbow and the towel. How small a movement can you make and still scribe that slanted line? In other words, transition from a gross movement to a very fine movement.

The only way you can do this angular movement of your drawside elbow is by using your back muscles to make the movement.

Once you have gotten the feel of the movement of your elbow on the towel, start focusing on your back muscles on the draw side. Feel your back muscles on your drawside activate as you draw this line on the towel.

7. Only after 
A. Getting your bow adjusted for DL and DW to fit your requirement
B. After learning to draw and smoothly settle into aiming
C. Learning how to make a very small line on the towel (ie refined the use of your back muscles)

THEN, you set the speed of the release

8. Set the release as hot as it will go. Don't worry, it won't stay there.
A. Get up close and personal with the target bale
B. Nock an arrow and start the draw cycle
C. Anticipate that it is going to go off during the draw -- but no sweat -- you're not going to miss the bale.
D. If it goes off during the draw -- cool the release by 1 turn of the set screw (make it slower) and try again.
E. If you get to full draw, start the transition to transfer pressure from your thumb peg to your index finger. Again, anticipate the release will fire too soon. That's still ok; you are not going to miss the bale.
F. If it goes off during the transfer -- cool the release by 1/4 turn of the set screw (make it slower) and try again.
G. If you get the pressure transferred from your thumb peg to your index finger, start to relax your hand into your grip (hook or brass knuckles). Again, anticipate the release will fire too soon. That's still ok; you are not going to miss the bale.
H. If it goes off while you are relaxing into the grip -- cool the release by 1/4 turn of the set screw (make it slower) and try again.
I. At this point, you should be able to consistently get all the way to settling into anchor and focusing on the aimpoint. LETDOWN. To letdown, transfer the holding weight back to your index finger and regrip the thumb peg. If you can't letdown without accidentally firing the release, cool it off another 1/4 turn.
J. At this point your release should be set up right on the ragged edge of firing -- cold enough to get settled, but hot enough so that a micro movement of your drawside elbow will fire the release.

NOW, you get to practice shooting.
9. You should be confident that you can draw, settle into anchor, and aim. Just focus on clean smooth transitions and execution.

A. Start up close with a blank bale. Just focus on clean shots.
B. Consider covering your aperture with a cutout from a 3x5 index card.
C. Focus on the set up, draw to anchor, transition to aiming (aligning the peep and aperture), transferring pressure from the peg to a neutral release hand. Pull through the release.
D. When you are satisfied with the release, take the cover off the sight. Put a blank sheet of paper on the bale. Shoot a single arrow into the paper. Now shoot the subsequent arrows into the same hole.
E. Introduce a BIG target face. Clean execution -- shooting into the same hole. Gradually move back and reduce the size of the aimpoint.

Again, maintain the focus on smooth execution. With your release set up this way, you should be able to consistently fire the release by moving your draw elbow a very tiny amount and not pull your pin off the desired aimpoint.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Nice, I like reading through that kind of stuff and looking at how different guys explain things.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Good stuff Shogun1!
I see you start at the other extreme when setting up a hinge. 
Is there a theory behind starting from hot and cooling it off till you find the right spot?
I must say, starting too cold, and finding the same place would seem less stressful.
Knowing the arrow is not going to fire when drawing seems less scary than knowing it will probably go off while drawing.
Not saying your method doesn't work, just trying to understand the reasoning, or is it 6 of one way, 1/2 a dozen of the other?


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

either way you do it,....starting hot, or starting cold,......you eventually arrive at the setting that breaks the shot off at the right time, according to your specific execution's peculiarities of alignment and process. 
quite possibly, the only advantage to starting cold, is that you establish the longest limit of rotational travel that produces the best reasonable alignment rather than arriving at a break point that might be a bit early and resulting in some amount of small amount of consistent and/or aggravating vertical dispersion of your groups. a lot of people have the idea that less rotation, is better than more rotation, because it seems that the execution works more reliably, when the rotation is minimal. the problem with that, is that minimal rotation to break the shot off, can develop a certain amount of intimidation, into the release execution and be detrimental to confidence and trust in the execution.
the amount of engagement depth, is exactly what is responsible for developing this trust and confidence in the execution and is why I suggest that all of the " safety slack" in your hinge's set up, is there for a purpose, other than just "a safety factor". It is a integral part of the process as a whole.
as I've said, several times before, every element of the execution's process, both supports and is dependent, on another element of the process.


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## Shogun1 (Jan 31, 2015)

I don't disagree that the crucial aspects of setting up a hinge have to address both the physical and mental aspects of using the hinge. Rather than derail Padgett's post, I started a separate post to address Mahly's question.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Going back to the original post.
I use a hinge with a click, and I have my hinge set up using Padgett's system (LOVE that system, and that you posted is Padgett!).
I use the thumb safety, and draw as evenly as I can using all 3 fingers and thumb...the thumb does get more than 25% or the weight. Maybe it's more accurate for me to say I put pretty much the same EFFORT in drawing into each finger...the weaker thus pulling a little less, the stronger (index and thumb) pulling more, but in my head, the same effort.
Once at full draw, anchors and contact points met, ring on target and level checked, I release the thumb from the safety. 
ORIGINALLY, I wanted the click to JUST go off. Now I am using some of that safety slack to my advantage. I keep the same perceived tension on my index, and as Padgett said, releasing the thumb forces the index forward JUST a little bit. The click goes off but I'm not right at the start of the click...it has moved somewhat into the click (I should mention that the click in my hinge seems a bit long/deep). This is allowing me to have the confidence of a click, and still the slight imperfection of not knowing exactly how far I have left.
Recently I also borrowed a hinge from a friend... This hinge is a bit weird in that you can't set it up with a click, and you get virtually no travel from the sear (Carter Only). I set it up the same as my hinge speed wise, and tried it out. I was surprised how well I could shoot it. It's amazing how much confidence I had in a completely different style of hinge. 
When I would release the thumb from the peg, I would feel the same movement that I was used to engaging my click. I knew I was in the same place, so I just continued my shot sequence as though I had heard the click. Never was I concerned that it would go off prematurely, and I knew it would go off using my firing engine without adjustments.

So I guess I use the Safety Slack a little different. I WANT to feel the movement generated by transferring the tension to a neutral index finger, so I don't adjust it to fire that way, and go to a more rigid finger. But I do get the mental benefit that "everything is going according to plan. You weren't anywhere near being in danger of pre-releasing. you've transferred from the thumb to the index, and used up your safety slack. start your engine, and the arrow will be gone soon"

Doing this, I am finally confident that I could move from my click if I wanted/needed to. The ONLY reason I started with a click was so I would have an early warning system that if my hand was somehow in the wrong position, instead of loosing the arrow, I would get an early click, and be able to let down and start over safely. Now the release of the thumb has become that click. Allowing me to set the hinge slow enough that it will never go off while drawing, but still not needing much travel to complete the shot.

Seems to be working, Padgett, or others, see any problem with this as a part of my shot sequence?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Mahly, I was looking for another thread in the advanced search and saw that you had posted on this one and I missed it.

I have been listening to you for a while in a variety of these threads and to me you are really progressing mentally and beginning to get to the point where your knowledge of a hinge shooting is going to allow you to really enjoy it and shoot at good levels. 

If I were you I would get a second hinge and set it up as a smooth moon hinge and start training with both of them, the training with each of them will compliment the other one and open up the ability to do different shooting sessions. My favorite sessions ever that helped me were running totals where I shot my click hinge until I missed and then I shot my smooth moon hinge until I missed. I had shot my first 60x rounds with the click one and it was my competition choice of the time but it didn't take long for me to see that i was far better with the smooth one.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Thanx!

My engine has really been progressing, even evolving lately.
I'm almost thinking of giving it it's own name LOL! I'd call it drifting or something similar.
The change is that now, when I am at full draw and release the peg, I don't DO anything other than pay be aware of how my index finger is taking some of the load from the thumb. When the thumb comes off the peg and up to the ring finger, I still get my click. But now I don't actually THINK of relaxing the index, or yielding the hand, or squeezing the other fingers. I don't really THINK of anything, I focus on the X, and that lets my mind "drift" from being aware of the index, to well, not being aware of it. The back tension is always there, and this either forces the hand to yield, or at least forces the index to yield. The engine has become much more sub-conscious as to how it works, but I am conscious that it IS working.
Very hard to put into words. It's not a very hot release, and if I focus on using another engine (like pull and squeeze), the shot doesn't happen any quicker.
I was reading EPLC's thread about stopping/starting engines, and I know I have done that in the past. I have finally gotten to experience "spectator shooting" for the first time, and I think that was something of a break-through to this. 
Again, hard to put into words, I know how to start the engine, and how to stop it. But now "pausing" it is becoming almost difficult (a good thing). If it doesn't go off, or something just isn't right, I can stop to let it down. But the engine itself requires no brain power to keep it running, call it muscle memory or whatever, but the back tension never goes away, and as I focus on other things, like even just watching my float, the fingers seem to look for balance among themselves (as they were while drawing), meaning the index gives some of it's tension to the other fingers, when that happens, BANG! arrow gone.

Again, the set-up is absolutely critical. After years of doing it the "hard way" (and then going to a thumb trigger for a decade or so). Being able to draw the hinge with equal pressure on all fingers, KNOWING the hinge will NOT go off, then transferring the thumb's load to the index, and letting the fingers return to that original balance...I don't think it can be done (at least not by me) without having that set-up correct first.

Even though I haven't been able to practice as much as I would like, it's been getting a little warmer here, and I can shoot 7-8 yards in the garage. I pretty much have my hinge and string with me where ever I go, and that has helped a lot with getting much of this into the subconscious.

Money has been tight here lately, but that may change in the near future. if/when it does, I'll definitely be picking up a 2nd hinge to work with without the click.

Thanx again!


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I think one of the biggest things for me personally in my shooting was when n7709k talked about a soft hand a few times this fall and winter in a variety of threads, in the beginning I didn't really get it but then something clicked for me and it rattled around in my head and I saw how going from a hard to soft hand really hurts a hinge shooter. It all relates back to the hinge setup, if you are shooting nice and smooth and you tweek your speed of the hinge so that you are shooting awesome and then the next day you start a competition or just a shooting session with your hand opposite from what you just set your hinge up with you are going to suffer. For me a hard hand slows the speed down and a soft hand speeds it up as one factor but also a hard hand doesn't want to produce rotation and a soft hand wants to. Both of these things lead to suffering with misfires or a frozen release that won't fire at all.

I have actually been working on this from the beginning foundation, The Hinge Setup. I have taken my competition hinge that I want set up to my perfect speed and I did the hinge setup routine with it using a soft and relaxed hand. Usually I allow there to be some anxiety in my hand making it a little hard when setting up a hinge because there it that slight amount of fear of it firing as I draw the bow, this last time I did my setup I made a conscious effort to insure that I set it really slow in the beginning so I could draw the bow with a really soft hand and a good j-hook grip, then I took my time and did a bunch of let downs and set it faster and faster until it began to fire. I have shot with this setting for a good month now I think and I have had no misfires and it is firing very sweet nice and early in my shot window where i want it to be.


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## xtreme76 (Sep 9, 2013)

I am a novice at this, but I thought I would share how I stumbled onto a set-up I love on a HT. I started with click and messed with the setting until I could draw, equal the load on my fingers, and tighten my back to pull my elbow around as I came to anchor. Once I had it set right it would click right as I anchored, but I still didn't like the click (I came from shooting no click with prior release). So I swapped it to no click. I didn't mess with the setting at all (HT head setting appears to stays the same and not affected by flipping), and guess what I love it. I just consciously equal pressure in my fingers and start pulling my elbow around as I set into anchor and then start aiming and shortly there after the arrow is gone. I am as close as I ever have been to subconcious with the release. I am not sure if this way to set up (click then no click) would work this easy with any other release, but it for now anyway :wink: I am loving it. I do think maybe another ht with a click set up identical might help keep me consistent in my process prior to aiming, something I am pondering purchasing. For now though I seem to fight the click causing me to pause or even harden my hand and it makes the shot take longer with identical hinge "speed". Without the click it seems to be one fluid motion from full draw until the arrow is released.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

Padgett said:


> I think one of the biggest things for me personally in my shooting was when n7709k talked about a soft hand a few times this fall and winter in a variety of threads, in the beginning I didn't really get it but then something clicked for me and it rattled around in my head and I saw how going from a hard to soft hand really hurts a hinge shooter. It all relates back to the hinge setup, if you are shooting nice and smooth and you tweek your speed of the hinge so that you are shooting awesome and then the next day you start a competition or just a shooting session with your hand opposite from what you just set your hinge up with you are going to suffer. For me a hard hand slows the speed down and a soft hand speeds it up as one factor but also a hard hand doesn't want to produce rotation and a soft hand wants to.


I have been softening my release hand for a few weeks without changing my release settings and am not really suffering because of it. It takes some commitment to "let go" of a hard hand habit and to work out the nuances. A stretched hand likes a bit different home position, for one. Balancing front and back pressure is key, which I need more range time to work things out. The finicky index finger pressure I use with a hard hand is greatly reduced. I also find I want a little different DL to firm up my hold. I am overall more relaxed at full draw and have less hang ups which is what I am looking for.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Both of you guys Rick! and xtreme76, you guys are on the right track in your own ways to really solid shooting. I can tell when a person posts if they are beginning to get a hang of the little things that make huge differences in their shooting.

xtreme76, yeah you should get a second hinge but instead of just doing it as a click hinge you may want to decide to set it up a little slower than the other one and allow it to be your training hinge. I do this all the time and I find that shooting with a hinge that is slightly slower than my competition hinge it does a great job of developing a good firing engine that is more than long enough so that when I shoot my competition hinge is is sweet.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Rick!, I am noticing the same thing by allowing the hand to be soft as I draw the bow the index finger does seem to have way less affect on my shot. i know that as a new hinge shooter a few years ago that I really struggled with my index finger freezing my shot but in all reality i have a feeling it was more of a hard hand issue but I simply didn't know the difference.


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## doulos (Apr 2, 2006)

Im an old fart who just started shooting a hinge less than a week ago. I read Padgett set up and firing engines and have been playing around with a blank bale. Only one session with a vegas target at 20yds and it produced some of the best feeling releases and shots I've ever experienced. However I actually feel more muscled on the draw and I tired more quickly. Does that make sense? I was basically relaxing my hand and pulling in to the wall at the same time. I have just started trying to have a more relaxed hand at the draw to ensure less tension and have the back of my hand more flat. How tense should your hand be on the draw?


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

doulos said:


> Im an old fart who just started shooting a hinge less than a week ago. I read Padgett set up and firing engines and have been playing around with a blank bale. Only one session with a vegas target at 20yds and it produced some of the best feeling releases and shots I've ever experienced. However I actually feel more muscled on the draw and I tired more quickly. Does that make sense? I was basically relaxing my hand and pulling in to the wall at the same time. I have just started trying to have a more relaxed hand at the draw to ensure less tension and have the back of my hand more flat. How tense should your hand be on the draw?


To answer your question, as relaxed as possible. Basically, try to flatten the back of your hand and fingers to be on the same plane as your forearm. Take pix and then compare them to what your feeling. The most prevalent feeling you will get when drawing with a relaxed hand is that your back is doing all of the draw work with little to no top of hand or forearm tension. As for "safety slack" to keep on topic, I'll let others chime in - I'm in the Montigre camp with no thumb peg and with a click.


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## doulos (Apr 2, 2006)

thanks


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## PUGIDOGS (Mar 17, 2005)

My sequence.....I draw with thumb on peg of a three finger. Thumb carries maybe 10% of weight. Index finger carries about 60% with the remaining 30% on middle and ring fingers. When I get to anchor I release the thumb and relax the hand allowing the weight to evenly disperse to all fingers and the release to click. If my hand and draw arm is not 100% relaxed, the release will NOT click. No click is my red light to tell me something is not correct and I draw down. Click is a green light to say everything is a go to start with back tension. When pulling with back tension, there is not visible movement in rotation of the release. The release fingers are relaxed but are immovable solid hooks that do not visibly yield to the back tension pressure. Hope this helps, Pugi


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