# Form or draw length problem?



## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

It's a form issue mostly. Her biggest problems are her low anchor, high front shoulder and her leaning her head and upper torso backwards. Watch this about the front shoulder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJbu3GtfUro 

If she gets the front shoulder down and forwards and can get the backwards lean fixed, her DL might be okay but her anchor would need to come up. Chances are the DL is going to end up being 1/2-1" or so long.


----------



## adamrobinson86 (Apr 18, 2019)

Huntinsker said:


> It's a form issue mostly. Her biggest problems are her low anchor, high front shoulder and her leaning her head and upper torso backwards. Watch this about the front shoulder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJbu3GtfUro
> 
> If she gets the front shoulder down and forwards and can get the backwards lean fixed, her DL might be okay but her anchor would need to come up. Chances are the DL is going to end up being 1/2-1" or so long.


I agree with what hunt is saying. She is anchored low. Front shoulder is high. Try getting her to lower the front shoulder and anchor higher. I would drop the dl to at least 26” to do this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

smoothbuns said:


> Hey everyone, I have a few form questions. My girlfriend and I recently started getting into archery a few weeks ago. I have been reading and watching everything I can get my hands on. For trying to nail down our form I have been using mostly John Dudley's videos. My girlfriend has been having an issue with having to bring her head forward so that the string can cross the corner of her mouth and touch her nose. I, being a novice as well, am unsure whether it's form or draw length or something else I am unaware of. The catalyst for posting is that her groups aren't improving even though, from what I can tell she isn't punching the trigger on her release and is trying to activate it with back tension. She feels that her positioning is inconsistent because she is unable to get the string to cross the corner of her mouth and touch her nose without tons of head editing after the draw.
> 
> In these pictures she was attempting not to touch her nose to the string but anchor and have the string cross the corner of her mouth.
> 
> ...


Draw length too long. Cuz the draw length is too long, she has to lean backwards.
Cuz the draw length is too long, the bow arm has to point downhill, while the arrow is level. Go even longer with draw length,
she will need to lean backwards even more and her left wrist will drop down to below the belly button.

So, when you go SHORTER on draw length, she will need to stand more vertical...meaning middle of neck leans FORWARDS closer to left ankle.
So, when you go SHORTER on draw length, the left arm needs to swing UP to level, parallel to the arrow, like this.

But, if I drop her draw length another 1.5-inches shorter or even only 1-inch shorter, she will feel all SCRUNCHED up.
She is gonna have to bend her left elbow?

No, she won't. She needs to lean FORWARDS, not lean backwards, to get the buttons on her jacket centered between her ankles.
Then, she needs to swing the bow arm UP, until the forearm (left side) is parallel to the arrow.

So, what's with the double image? How come I see two noses? I cut off her head digitally, and centered the buttons on her jacket between her ankles.
Then, I lifted her head back to the original height. So, you see two vanes, you see two noses, cuz that is how much I needed to lean her upper body forwards...about 1.5-inches Forwards.

Then, I raised her arm, like a draw bridge, so the forearm bones are dead parallel to the arrow. Bow hand had to lift about 1-inch higher.
Drop the draw length minimum 1-inch shorter, and even better 1.5-inches shorter.


----------



## smoothbuns (May 19, 2020)

Thanks guys! This all makes so much sense. One more question about the anchor. I know everyone's bone structure is different, but do you have a suggestion of what structure to use if her anchor point needs to be higher? She was using her index finger MCP or 3rd knuckle right under her ear in the pictures.


----------



## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

smoothbuns said:


> Thanks guys! This all makes so much sense. One more question about the anchor. I know everyone's bone structure is different, but do you have a suggestion of what structure to use if her anchor point needs to be higher? She was using her index finger MCP or 3rd knuckle right under her ear in the pictures.


Typically that's what I have people use with an index release but I also teach them to relax their release arm forearm so that the palm of the hand faces slightly outward away from the face. If you completely relax your forearm and bring your hand up to your face, your palm will naturally face outward. This natural position lowers the 2nd MCP and the lower position of the joint will allow her to still use the joint as her anchor but will also allow her to raise the release hand slightly to bring the lower positioned joint to under the ear.


----------



## smoothbuns (May 19, 2020)

Huntinsker said:


> Typically that's what I have people use with an index release but I also teach them to relax their release arm forearm so that the palm of the hand faces slightly outward away from the face. If you completely relax your forearm and bring your hand up to your face, your palm will naturally face outward. This natural position lowers the 2nd MCP and the lower position of the joint will allow her to still use the joint as her anchor but will also allow her to raise the release hand slightly to bring the lower positioned joint to under the ear.


Great! We'll make the adjustments today and take more pictures to see if she is getting closer. Thanks again for the advice.


----------



## smoothbuns (May 19, 2020)

So here is the new photo from today. Draw length down to 26in and she found this anchor position worked. Her groups definitely tightened up a bit today and she was able to use back tension to activate the release. Where as before, it felt like she was pulling forever and nothing was happening.


----------



## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

smoothbuns said:


> So here is the new photo from today. Draw length down to 26in and she found this anchor position worked. Her groups definitely tightened up a bit today and she was able to use back tension to activate the release. Where as before, it felt like she was pulling forever and nothing was happening.
> 
> View attachment 7188677


That looks 100% better. She must have great body awareness to be able to make corrections like that so quickly. Shoot like that for a while and see how she gets along.


----------



## smoothbuns (May 19, 2020)

Awesome! Thanks again for the advice everyone it will be my turn in the next few days.


----------



## merlinron (Mar 23, 2020)

one thing to consider. you are separating draw length from form when the draw length is what defines and contributes to the form you have, ....it is probably the major component of your form. when the draw length is not right, your form cannot be right and in most cases, if the draw length is correct your form falls into place.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

smoothbuns said:


> Hey everyone, I have a few form questions. My girlfriend and I recently started getting into archery a few weeks ago. I have been reading and watching everything I can get my hands on. For trying to nail down our form I have been using mostly John Dudley's videos. My girlfriend has been having an issue with having to bring her head forward so that the string can cross the corner of her mouth and touch her nose. I, being a novice as well, am unsure whether it's form or draw length or something else I am unaware of. The catalyst for posting is that her groups aren't improving even though, from what I can tell she isn't punching the trigger on her release and is trying to activate it with back tension. She feels that her positioning is inconsistent because she is unable to get the string to cross the corner of her mouth and touch her nose without tons of head editing after the draw.
> 
> In these pictures she was attempting not to touch her nose to the string but anchor and have the string cross the corner of her mouth.
> 
> ...


Draw length is fine. Peep sight was installed TOO HIGH. So, go back to the "pro" shop and have the peep installed LOWER, closer to the d-loop. Full draw posture needs a lot of work.










I outlined her head, to show you how much she needs to lean forwards, to get middle of neck directly above belly button. This is called standing up straight, with a vertical backbone. Watch the GRIV Thing a Week #9, for how to PUSH the bow hand down and away from your face, when you lift the bow up to shooting height. This technique, will get the bow shoulder to drop down.






Both of her shoulders are SHRUGGED UP. Relax the shoulders, drop the two collar bones (see lower RED line). When she relaxes her shoulders to drop down, and pushes the bow AWAY from her face and leans FORWARDS about 2-3 inches, the bow arm will rise up like a draw bridge, so the bow arm will be parallel to the arrow.

DROP the draw weight even lower, and this will be easier. Look at the red shadow outline of her head. That is how much she is leaning backwards. So, that means, your girlfriend should imagine a rope tied to her bow and a pulley at the target is PULLING her bow forwards, 2-3 inches CLOSER to the target, with her feet planted on the ground.


----------

