# Change the rules for one person?



## MikeV101

Has anyone come across an archer who believes that he has a devine right to change the rules? I have. For the sake of anonymity, lets call him “Piet”. Anyway, he is a lawyer, and has been threatening the local association with closure, sent lawyers letters and makes all kinds of threats. The reason – well, he misses the field target, and because of his inability to shoot straight, demands that carpets and all kinds of protection is placed around the butt. He has, on an ongoing basis, upset a number of organisers and archers. He has even written to the president of the IFAA. I was hoping that someone has come across someone like this and can suggest what to do!


----------



## lenn

What is his shooting style, I have heard about a person complaining.

Groete


----------



## Bushkey

"Piet" shoots with a "Stick bow" traditionalist. I would personally like to see him being banned for six months for his last outburst at the Field shoot in Gauteng. Was totaly inappropriate, disrespectful and rude.


----------



## lenn

Bushkey, was this on the Greenheel shoot with the lovely "mild" wind.


----------



## Bushkey

lenn said:


> Bushkey, was this on the Greenheel shoot with the lovely "mild" wind.


Yes it was.


----------



## INGOZI

Ban the bliksem, he is the one and only one with such a complaint and is obviously making life hell for all the other achers.


----------



## ASG

Ban him or get someone to teach him how to shoot. Perhaps archery is not the right sport for him and he would be better of doing ballet or ice skating where throwing your toys like a 2 year old is common.:wink:


----------



## MikeV101

How do you ban him if there are no "legal" grounds to ban him and he is a member of the association? Remember he is a lawyer, and has threatended a number of people - and legal fees are expensive.


----------



## SelwynM

The crux of the matter is that he destroys his arrows because he is not competent to enter such tournaments. Do the organisers of such a tournament not have a responsibility to ban him from entering such a competition? Especially as he poses a threat to other people and his equipment. It appears clear to me that he is expressing cathartic behaviour because of his incompetence. On this basis, ban him from participating.


----------



## ASG

Perhaps a mis-directed arrow to the back of his head could end your problems forever? After all...accidents do happen...


----------



## Matatazela

Sounds like an unpleasant person, indeed. 

The thing here is that he may actually be correct in insisting on protection around the butt. If that is written in the rules, then he is in the right. As a lawyer, he will know this. However, there is nothing against the law in forming a pettition, where club members can oppose his behaviour as damaging to the sport. 

It sounds to me as though he doesn't care about what is good, but about what is right. You may have to get another lawyer to sort this out.


----------



## MikeV101

Look what he says - and he has the support of the sanifaa president!


----------



## SelwynM

Strange letter for a lawyer, especially given his credentials! I’m referring to Sec E.1 of the constitution which states –

_Protests will be concerned only with game shooting rules and equipment rules as established by the SANIFAA Rule Book. All other problems such as misconduct, range problems, etc. will be referred to the Tournament Chairman. 
_
His response states “_I am also the chairman of the Indoor and Field Archery Association of KwaZulu_”

Surely he is then responsible? It appears the problem lies with him ....


----------



## Matatazela

Whew! Definitely two sides to this story.


----------



## ASG

What seems to be the real problem here?

Is he complaining about the layout of the ranges?
Is he complaining about compound archers?
Is he complaining about the commitee?

One of the reasons I stopped shooting in competitions was that there is more politics in competitive archery than in the White house!

I was at the Greenhills shoot and most of the range looked quite safe.
There were one or two butts that might have been a bit dangerous though.
(no line of sight behind the target as the target was on top of the hill and a high arrow would sail over the top and down below the hill where you can't see if someone is walking.)
The spraypaint on the rocks was disgusting!

Why don't they rather organise tournaments for stick bow shooters and others for compound?
Otherwise, boycott the competitions until they get their S#*t sorted out.

Then again, they haven't been able to sort it out for many years now.

Just on a personal note: I do not allow any traditional hunters to hunt on properties that we hunt on. The wounding rate is MUCH higher than with compound bows. You live and learn!


----------



## MikeV101

ASG asks an interesting question. The answer is contained in this lawyers letter copied to me. He appears to want everything .....


----------



## urabus

i hope this is not the "piet" from durban.........it's embarrassing......
:embara: :embara: :embara:

i hope it's not the same person that brings his own butts to the range to put it in front/below of the full fita size frames to protect his arrows (misses).

why ban him........just refuse his entry.......


----------



## Matatazela

Like I said, he is right. If he has endeavored to get the matter sorted, without success, then we have to acknowledge that a remedy must be found. If I was a traditional archer and had to spend a lot of money on arrows because the organisers did not care to set the range up according to prescribed rules, then I would also have a beef with them.

In the UK, there are marshals that will sanction a range if the butts are not staked down! All it would take is a few bales and a bit of planning to set the range up so that it is safe to competitors and spectators. Rather that than have someone with an arrow sticking into them, because the publicity and implications associated with that are terrible for the sport as a whole. 

I like the concept of traditional archery, but it does not float my boat. I have no problem with the possibility of losing an arrow or three over a whole course, but to actually run out of arrows???


----------



## Bushkey

MikeV101 said:


> ASG asks an interesting question. The answer is contained in this lawyers letter copied to me. He appears to want everything .....


I read the letters and understand Piet's frustration. But there is certain ways of doing things. SANIFAA has a grievance procedure. If you are not happy with things you are more than welcome to go and pay R50.00 after the shoot within a prescribed time frame and can then proceed to voice your concerns, problems, grievances etc. 

I spoke to some of the officials. Piet did not do this. Instead he stormed one of the female officials that was present, broke the arrows he had left over his knee and threw her with it and started screaming at her. Some of the male participants that was there actually stood closer because they were worried that he would physically assault her. She actually told me in the exact words that she was worried that he would assault her. 

Now is that the behavior one would expect from a guy like Piet. He makes mention that negotiations with Gammon would be futile. But I think Gammon won't reason ore talk to him because of the way he came over that day. Piet for obvious reasons won't talk about this in his letters to NIFAA.


----------



## ASG

This "Piet" character is cetainly a cry baby of note!

3 Archers losing 50 arrows! 
Surely if a person shoots so badly he should not be able to compete in competitive archery? Especially since they give you the exact distance!
Yes, the wind was blowing a bit but that's what makes it interesting. 
Any archer worth his/her salt is also aware of the fact that you compensate for the wind. What do the guys in Cape Town do?

What is also interesting is that the average cost per arrow is R100.00!
Buying expensive equipment will never compensate for poor shooting ability!

Having target butts directly in front of a rock is not an excuse. Once again, you are given the exact distance to the target.

My only advice to "Piet" would be... Practice, Practice, Practice!
Oh! and buy cheaper arrows.:wink:


----------



## Bushkey

Matatazela said:


> Like I said, he is right. If he has endeavored to get the matter sorted, without success, then we have to acknowledge that a remedy must be found. If I was a traditional archer and had to spend a lot of money on arrows because the organisers did not care to set the range up according to prescribed rules, then I would also have a beef with them.
> 
> In the UK, there are marshals that will sanction a range if the butts are not staked down! All it would take is a few bales and a bit of planning to set the range up so that it is safe to competitors and spectators. Rather that than have someone with an arrow sticking into them, because the publicity and implications associated with that are terrible for the sport as a whole.
> 
> I like the concept of traditional archery, but it does not float my boat. I have no problem with the possibility of losing an arrow or three over a whole course, but to actually run out of arrows???


To start off with. With the exception of maybe two buts(but that is also debatable) like ASG pointed out. This range(Green Hills) was dam save. I spoke to Gammon on day two after the bomb exploded, he wanted a safe range to start of with, thats why a lot of these buts was up against big rocks. I shot a 3-D this weekend that had one or two really dodgy shots. 

Spectators are actually not allowed on SANIFAA ranges.


----------



## Matatazela

Bushkey said:


> I spoke to some of the officials. Piet did not do this. Instead he stormed one of the female officials that was present, broke the arrows he had left over his knee and *threw her with it *and started screaming at her.


That IS assault, and grounds for banning him from future events, and possibly even removing him from office. I hope she laid a charge and those present gave statements.


----------



## Matatazela

Bushkey said:


> To start off with. With the exception of maybe two buts(but that is also debatable) like ASG pointed out. This range(Green Hills) was dam save. I spoke to Gammon on day two after the bomb exploded, he wanted a safe range to start of with, thats why a lot of these buts was up against big rocks. I shot a 3-D this weekend that had one or two really dodgy shots.
> 
> Spectators are actually not allowed on SANIFAA ranges.


I am speaking as an outsider that does not know the range, and appologise if I have got the facts wrong. I maintain that he does have a point, but the way he went about it sounds like he needs to spend more time on the range and less time kicking and screaming about the rules... 

The dodgy shots on a course are what makes it challenging. Watching a mate bust his arrow is always good for a smile, but sometimes it is your arrow!!!:embara:


----------



## Zhunter1

Holy Crap

I have no dog in this fight, but I find this to be a real joke. I read both letters, and it seems to me that this guy is out and out blackmailing. The threat of R50,000 to R100,000 is plain blackmail!!!

He needs to learn to be more accurate!!!


----------



## Gerhard

Boys.

This is ridiculous.

(Bekotsings waardig)ukey:

Ek het hier in Dubai die selfde ervaring gehaad as in Suid Afrika.

Almal is bereid om almal te help en oor die algemeen is almal 'n klomp nice manne.

Maar een ou soos die kan die sport vir baie onplesierig maak.

Sterkte.

Gerhard


----------



## SelwynM

Is this true what _Bushkey_ writes or is it hearsay? I find it difficult to believe that an archer would wilfully destroy his own arrows. I can understand destruction by accident, but taking your remaining arrows and breaking them, and then threatening an official? That sounds absurd – especially when the person he has alleged to have threatened is a woman.
This certainly does not sound like a lawyer and certainly not a professional person. Any professional would know better, especially a lawyer who knows the consequences of behaviour unbecoming…
Moreso, if this is true, why has SANIFAA not taken action against “Piet”? There is a procedure which is defined in the Constitution under “Code of Conduct”. Why was this not followed?
While I too, have no dog in this fight, I believe it dangerous to make allegations (especially serious ones) about behaviour of this nature.
I would be very interested to see whether anyone was witness to this allegation, because if it is true, then the problem is solved. Archery in South Africa does not need people like this, and by simply following the remedy in the Constitution, steps can be taken to withdraw his membership.


----------



## urabus

SelwynM said:


> Is this true what _Bushkey_ writes or is it hearsay? I find it difficult to believe that an archer would wilfully destroy his own arrows. I can understand destruction by accident, but taking your remaining arrows and breaking them, and then threatening an official? That sounds absurd – especially when the person he has alleged to have threatened is a woman.
> This certainly does not sound like a lawyer and certainly not a professional person. Any professional would know better, especially a lawyer who knows the consequences of behaviour unbecoming…
> Moreso, if this is true, why has SANIFAA not taken action against “Piet”? There is a procedure which is defined in the Constitution under “Code of Conduct”. Why was this not followed?
> While I too, have no dog in this fight, I believe it dangerous to make allegations (especially serious ones) about behaviour of this nature.
> I would be very interested to see whether anyone was witness to this allegation, because if it is true, then the problem is solved. Archery in South Africa does not need people like this, and by simply following the remedy in the Constitution, steps can be taken to withdraw his membership.


+1


----------



## Matatazela

The problem here is the second letter posted contains numerous threats if things do not go "Piets" way. It is a fact that there has been little interest in archery as a sport from the non-white section of the population and it is also a fact that litigation "between R50 000 and R100 000" could result. 

The problem is now not so much that what the original course looked like, but whether "Piet" will get his way. 

I do not know any of the individuals concerned, so I cannot comment on specifics, but the whole situation seems to be something small that has rapidly become inflamed and has now been taken, out of context, to a scale that is no longer appropriate to the original problem. 

Politics: From the Greek root word POLY = Many and TICKS = small bloodsucking parasites!


----------



## Bushkey

SelwynM said:


> Is this true what _Bushkey_ writes or is it hearsay? I find it difficult to believe that an archer would wilfully destroy his own arrows. I can understand destruction by accident, but taking your remaining arrows and breaking them, and then threatening an official? That sounds absurd – especially when the person he has alleged to have threatened is a woman.
> This certainly does not sound like a lawyer and certainly not a professional person. Any professional would know better, especially a lawyer who knows the consequences of behaviour unbecoming…
> Moreso, if this is true, why has SANIFAA not taken action against “Piet”? There is a procedure which is defined in the Constitution under “Code of Conduct”. Why was this not followed?
> While I too, have no dog in this fight, I believe it dangerous to make allegations (especially serious ones) about behaviour of this nature.
> I would be very interested to see whether anyone was witness to this allegation, because if it is true, then the problem is solved. Archery in South Africa does not need people like this, and by simply following the remedy in the Constitution, steps can be taken to withdraw his membership.


SelwynM. I did not see this myself, but the female official that had to "bear the brunt" reported this to me in front of three well known archers and members of SANIFAA. I asked/adviced her to take action, I hope she did. In a conversation with Gammon that same day this was also confirmed in the presence of one of our AT members. I was very surprised with what happened, as was a lot of archers the day there. Like I said I understand "Piet's" frustration but I don't believe that this is the way to go about it. I don't know if there was previous incidences, and if this was the first time.


----------



## Matatazela

SelwynM said:


> ...I find it difficult to believe that an archer would wilfully destroy his own arrows. I can understand destruction by accident, but taking your remaining arrows and breaking them, and then threatening an official?...


Ever watch professional golfers when things don't go their way? Remember John McEnroe? Heck - they even wrote a song about his tantrums on the court! It's embarrasing to watch, but does on ocasion happen.


----------



## urabus

just thinking.........piet comes to the range to practise with his own butts to save "missed" arrows........this tells me that he's well aware that he often misses the target........so did he complain to the officials re lack of protection before or after the start of the tourny? or before or after he missed the target?


----------



## Bushkey

urabus said:


> just thinking.........piet comes to the range to practise with his own butts to save "missed" arrows........this tells me that he's well aware that he often misses the target........so did he complain to the officials re lack of protection before or after the start of the tourny? or before or after he missed the target?


Good questions. Before the start of the shoot, Aurelle specifically warned the long and recurve guys that the range was rocky. The wind was howling, an it was difficult even for the compound guys to get there arrows on target, not to mention these(recurve) guys. I had to aim of to the side and above the butt to hit it at times. Now, how big do you have to make the back stop for these guys to protect there arrows. On day one they shot in the group behind us. Some of there arrows missed the butts only just, but some missed with some distance. What is going to be enough. 

I also don't like his last letter. It seems very threatening, and pretty one sided, and is borderline blackmailing.


----------



## Matatazela

Bushkey - you are right about the blackmailing tone. There are seperate issues in there that should be dealt with as a matter of course, like racial representativity, and not because a single course was unsafe. The mention that this may be addressed through the appropriate channels IF he doesn't get his way (sorry, paraphrasing badly there!) leaves a very bad impression. 

Regarding how much protection around the butt they need - surely there should be some sort of standardd that if you can't hit the target, you are not deemed safe to shoot the rest of the course? I mean, a miss by "some distance" surely must mean that you are just dangerous to those around you, whereas a miss by a few inches is far less worrying!


----------



## MikeV101

Matatazela said:


> Bushkey - you are right about the blackmailing tone. There are seperate issues in there that should be dealt with as a matter of course, like racial representativity, and not because a single course was unsafe.


So should his threats be taken seriously? Or is he using them to get his own way, whatever that may be. Also, whose opinion is it that the ranges are not safe? Grant has years of experience, and Aurelle has decades more. Who is right, and what must be done to correct this? And why is SANIFAA so strangely quiet? Piet’s letters sound very bias, prejudicial and full of self interest to me. Should tradition bows be banned (or special events), because of the dangers posed?
And if Piet is so concerned, why has he not shot in fita archery?


----------



## urabus

so he should really blame the wind? forces of natural? GLOBAL WARMING?
how about protection of the other extreme......ie robin hoods?????imho, it's all part of the game/risk??


----------



## Matatazela

I think that he sounds like someone that will make good on his promises, even if it means resorting to politics to get SANIFAA placed under 'government curatorship' which is likely to harm the sport far, far more than just sorting out the original problem. 

Also, going to press first means that he gets to spread a sensationalised story, tailored to suit his needs. The response will be yesterdays news before it is printed, and being merely a counterbalance to his piece, is unlikely to get any significant attention. 

So, should his threats be taken seriously? Unfortunately, I believe they should and legal advice in this regard (from the pocket of every SANIFAA member) should be sought before this really spins out of control.

What I think this is, is a wake-up call that we have this sort of character in our ranks, and we need to urgently look at strategies for dealing with them.


----------



## Bushkey

Matatazela said:


> What I think this is, is a wake-up call that we have this sort of character in our ranks, and we need to urgently look at strategies for dealing with them.


You know what James. You are 300% correct. I did not even think of it like that. 

I tell every body that wants to listen that I enjoy archery, not only for the fact that I can fling arrows but for many different reasons. I have made so many friends shooting competitively it is not even funny. And after every shoot me and my club mates always inquire from each other how the guys/girls in the irrespective details we shot in/with was, and the answer is always, I shot with "moerse lekker people". I actually told someone Saturday after the 2/3-D that we as archers are very lucky, having so many awesome people to shoot with and in our mids. 

But it is just life, you will find that that guy every where.


----------



## Bushkey

Bushkey said:


> You know what James. You are 300% correct. I did not even think of it like that.
> 
> I tell every body that wants to listen that I enjoy archery, not only for the fact that I can fling arrows but for many different reasons. I have made so many friends shooting competitively it is not even funny. And after every shoot me and my club mates always inquire from each other how the guys/girls in the *irrespective* details we shot in/with was, and the answer is always, I shot with "moerse lekker people". I actually told someone Saturday after the 2/3-D that we as archers are very lucky, having so many awesome people to shoot with and in our mids.
> 
> But it is just life, you will find that that guy every where.


Sorry meant respective.


----------



## ASG

You guys should politely ask this person to refrain from attending social, club or competitive shoots on the basis that he is unsporting and deliberately interfering with the enjoyment of archery for everyone else.

As with all things in life it's numbers that count and if you can get enough people to sign a petition, the powers that be will have no choice but to cater to the masses. I'm sure they can refund him his membership fee.:wink:


----------



## X-Factor

Comeon guys

This is actually past the point of being rediculous.

Apologies , my actual name is Adriaan Engelbrecht, active member of The X-Factor Archery Club. We are affiliated to both Gauteng and North-West with SANAA and SANIFA and currently have 35 registered and active archers in our club.

As treasurer of our club I am well within my rights to comment on our Club's behalf.

I have personally had the displeasure of witnessing firsthand Piet's unpleasant and certainly uncouth bahaviour on two seperate occasions.

The first time was the Filed event that was shot at Magnum's premises in Pretoria. Even here in the absence of "huge" boulders, Piet had a problem which he very verbally and abusively took up with Grant Gammon in front of all and sundry who were within hearing distance. My wife was one of the people that were unfortunate to be close to the whole affair and she was absolutely appalled by Piets behaviour and language.

What was wrong with Magnum's course ? Some sedate downhill shots etc. What was Piets problem ? He had lost too many arrows again and would not have bothered coming up from Durban if he had known the course was going to be difficult and he was going to loose so many arrows !! Problem was that he could not express this in a nice manner and rather decided to tear into Grant, and did not leave untill such time as he had posted a written letter on the Magnum Signboard voicing his disgust.

I was one of the people that helped Grant lay out the range for the Gauteng field. Gauteng is not in the fortunate position like some of the other Provinces to actually have a set range that gets used year after year. We use what we can lay our hands on. Grant and all of the helpers went to great pains to set out a course that was safe for archers. Like everything in life hindsight is an exact science and if we had to do it all over again I reckon there would only be one target I would personally place differently.

Piet was contacted before the shoot and informed of the course and the rocks that were actually present. ( Not placed there in spite )

Piet was the one that elected to still join the shoot , and Piet was the one that shot the course after having had the opportunity to view the course. He could have walked off if his concerns/gripes are valid ones , as he would have surely had these concerns upfront after seeing the course.

Bottom line is that Piet's behaviour is unsportsmanlike ans certainly not condisive to promoting our fine sport.

Piets behaviour in public connot be condoned and should not be tolerated.

Whilst there may be certain issues that need adressing when ranges are being set out we must not loose track of the fact that archery is growing rapidly in South Africa and that most clubs and Provinces do not have unlimited budgets that will allow us to put in all the nice to haves that Piet is referring to.

If he gets his way there will be nowhere for us to actually host or shoot competitions. Has he tried/attempted the Middelburg Field ? I think not, that range would see him having a heart attack for sure.

Bottom line is that he is going to permanently damage our sport and the public image of our sport if allowed to continue with his tyrade.

Piet is not the only registered archer in our country. The balance of us guys far outnumber him, and I am not just talking compound archers.

Lets stand together guys. Our club and myself gratefully acknowlege what Grant and Aurelle have done for the sport over the past couple of years and we know where our loyalty and support lies.

On a personal note and not talking on behalf of my fellow club members ....

Piet , if you ever stoop to using your abusive and foul threatening gestures and language in front of any of my family or club members members again you will have a hard time extracting by boot from your rear end, that is a promise.

Enough said, this guy is getting airtime that he does not deserve.


----------



## Bushkey

Yes Adriaan. I don't understand why SANIFAA allows them to be bullied like this. Piet quotes the constitution. I wish they would hold him to it regarding his behavior.


----------



## Drenalinjunkie8

Just tell him to piss off. I would have done it a long time ago. Then again some people are not as forward as me. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## Hannes

*"Piet"*

Just put a "Right of admittion reserved" board at the entry to the shoot and when he comes in ask him to leave.

So if Bryan Habanna falls on a rugby pitch at "STADE DE FRANCE"and gets a grass burn is he going to sue France.... no I dont think so. It comes with the terroty.


----------



## Hoyt-man

Hi guys
If you read the lawyers letter that our unwelcome fellow archer has sent, you will see that "Piet" is after two things... He wants to be on the Protea team for Namibia 2008.. By all means neccesary. And he wants to stop losing arrows(hell, maybe he needs to practise more?) 

His suggestion was to go shoot at Watuni or Wolwehoek instead of Olifantsrivier. Well, lets just let him shoot at Watuni the rest of his natural life...? If we are unlucky enough to still have him as a member of SANIFAA in the near future, why not just let him shoot at Watuni and never see him again? I am sure some unlucky guy will draw the short straw for keeping him company on his quest for Protea glory (and why is Watuni the range he suggested... Maybe because it is an easy range... Well, if the wind isn't blowing anyway)

What happens if he goes off, like he has in the past, at an international event? Someone that represents his country cannot be allowed to behave in such a manner. It is unheard of. I really do hope that he doesn't get included into the team for Namibia, because then I will lose all my respect for the Sanifaa President. And didn't this guy have an issue at a world tournament in regards to him having marks on his glasses (which is cheating.). I might have my facts wrong, so please excuse me, but if someone knows anything about this please let us know.

And who is paying for the laywer fees anyway? Is he not abusing his power as chairman of KZN archery to not have to pay for the lawyer fees? Who is on his side. According to him, he has the majority of the provinces vote. Hell no. I do not think so. Let everyone reveal their true colours at a emergency AGM and then we can continue with this whole situation.

And what can make a range safer than to make sure that if someone misses a butt, that the arrow will be stopped by a rock and not keep on travelling. It might be a stupid thing to say, but hell, I would rather shoot a safe range and not have someone get hurt and lose a few arrows than not having a safe range at all. 
I know the two are not mutually exclusive, but like we all know, archery is not the best funded sport, so sometimes it could be mutuallly exclusive.

Who elects the KZN chairman anyway? Can't we have a vote of no confidence and get him to step down? Any thought would be great.


----------



## Matatazela

Hi Hoytman and welcome to the AT boards.

Between you and Adriaan, you make a few very good points. 

I hope that the chairman of SANIFAA is only on 'Piets' side because he has not heard the full story. That may need attending to by someone in the loop.

I agree with the Right of Admission' sign, but then his threats of having SANIFAA placed under government management must be dealt with seperately. I would have to suggest that that statement on its own is vidence that he does not have the organizations' interests at heart, but his own interests, again something that requires further investigation with the powers that be.


----------



## Bushkey

Yes welcome Hoytman.

Nice first post. Hope you hang around, and enjoy it.


----------



## spatan

*Ja heavy stuff.....*



Matatazela said:


> Whew! Definitely two sides to this story.


I believe he "Peit" is an advocate. He wrote very nice things about our range that we put up for the last provincals at the Ascot bush lodge in P.M.B. 

By the way we did not have carpet backings we did not have any rocks either, so no arrows were broken.....

I hate it when we have to take sides when usually achers are such easy going dudes.

Just my two cents worth.


Spatan:cocktail:


----------



## Hoyt-man

Hannes said:


> Just put a "Right of admittion reserved" board at the entry to the shoot and when he comes in ask him to leave.
> 
> So if Bryan Habanna falls on a rugby pitch at "STADE DE FRANCE"and gets a grass burn is he going to sue France.... no I dont think so. It comes with the terroty.


Hi Hannes.

I totally agree with you in the sense that if it was a private range that didn't host a SANIFAA event, then you can ask the idiot to leave and not come back. I am sure a lot of people will start doing this. Everyone and anyone will chase a guy off their range if he shoots broadheads into a field butt.

The only problem is, if you hold a tournament that is SANIFAA sanctioned, then I am sure that every paid up SANIFAA member should be eligible to go shoot the tournament. Otherwise this "Piet" will probably really try and get a loophole and make sure the event is not a qualifier for Namibia.

Just imagine how uncomfortable it will be for him to go to the next shoot... where everyone hates him...


----------



## urabus

we have got an indoor league thingie tomorrow night......i'm interested to see if he pitches up..............that's if he's got any arrows left :wink: :wink: but wait!!!!!!!! THERE'S A HUGE BRICK WALL BEHIND THE BUTTS


----------



## Hoyt-man

spatan said:


> I hate it when we have to take sides when usually achers are such easy going dudes.
> 
> 
> :


Hi Spartan. I am confused? Are you for or against Piet?


----------



## Bushkey

urabus said:


> we have got an indoor league thingie tomorrow night......i'm interested to see if he pitches up..............that's if he's got any arrows left :wink: :wink: but wait!!!!!!!! THERE'S A HUGE BRICK WALL BEHIND THE BUTTS


Rip your carpets out and take it there. You might save yourself some very expensive attorney fees.


----------



## Hoyt-man

Bushkey said:


> Rip your carpets out and take it there. You might save yourself some very expensive attorney fees.


I amonst believe the smell of sulfur will be the worst than the attorney fees.


----------



## X-Factor

You know what guys.

The question should not be whether we are with or against Piet , but rather whether we are willing to accept the likes of him and how he is going about things, cos there is sure to be another Piet in time to come.

My vote goes to make sure that we do not allow this individual nor any of those who will try in future to jeapourdise the sport for the rest of us.

After dealing with Piet we need to ensure that no-one else will even try a trick like this again.

Piet will be dealt with in the right manner. The comment about who will draw the short straw and have to spend a day in his pleasant company, please lets have a vote , I have volunteered to be that sucker :wink::wink::wink::wink:


----------



## spatan

*taking sides......*



Hoyt-man said:


> Hi Spartan. I am confused? Are you for or against Piet?


Hi Hoyt man 5552353
welcome to the place where archers can speak freely.....

I must admit I know peit personally and have never had a problem with him. He assisted The P.M.B Archery club to obtain a number of much needed field butts. This enabled us to hold the Kzn-Field championships in pietermaritzburg.

My wife and I are relitivily new to the world of competition archery. We spent around R1800,00 on getting to the venue and accomitaion ect and an additional R1200.00 on broken arrows so it was expensive for us and we shoot compound(i have just changed to a true b/t release and it kept pre releasing te first day) and i was alittle peterbed about having ather achers aming in our direction in the comp. Knowing what sort of trouble I was experiencing with my release. The more arrows I broke the worse I felt about my shooting ability.

I did not make a big deal of it then and I certainly did not throw my arrows at any one.....I would not have mentioned it at all but seeing as we discussing how frustrating and expensive competing can become if one does not set up the ranges for the novice and pro alike. If the ranges are to onerus then it will only serve to inhibit the growth of field archery as a sport. Not to say we don,t welocome a challange. Perhaps the courses should be graded as are rock climbs in terms of difficulty so one can at least be prepared. 


I was not at the shoot where Peit apparently went "Pear Shaped'. and I would not condone or back nasty behavior on any range. If however rules and laws are continually being flouted and I as a member of SANIFFA for 2 years now to get a bill in the post for legal fees because some or other member is suing the main body for breaking these rules and laws, I would be very annoyed. I have ever reserve my judgements till all the facts have been received, balanced and weighed fairly by the powers that be.

Spatan:cocktail:


----------



## Hoyt-man

*taking sides*



spatan said:


> I certainly did not throw my arrows at any one.....


Hi Spatan. 

Not to get into an argument of taking sides, the fact that "Piets" unsportmanslike behavior has gone so far as to being discussed on AT already says that it has gone too far and that he has upset a lot of people. 

Also, he is KZN chairman, so I presume the KZN provincial shoot falls under his juristiction and is part of the job discription.

The reason for the quote. 
You (and me alike) did not throw arrows at any one, because you (like myself) have the deciency and sportmanship not to treat people like that. If I behaved like him, I will understand if no one will ever want me remotely close to an archery range again... 

And like you, I also will also not be happy if I get a bill from SANIFAA for the legal fees... But then again, if it is a few hundered rand and he is out of our archery lives, then I will consider it money well spent and actually be glad.


----------



## cmitch

*Have a vote*

I vote for archery, I don't know what Piet's thoughts were, but even if he gets his way, where would that leave the sport? It doesn't matter if he succeeds in his attempt to "blackmail" SANIFAA, Grant or Aurelle, where would this leave archery in our country? Does anyone think (Piet included) that there are millions in a SANIFAA bank account somewhere? This entire sport is dependent on people that are willing to work over weekends to get ranges in order to make competitions possible, without any form of remuneration, purely out of love for the sport. (btw how many provinces actually make a decent profit out of a field events' entry fees?)

So if Piet succeeds in his "lawsuit" or whatever you want to call it, please tell me who will raise their hand and say : "I'll organise the next event"?

How many ranges has Piet set out and who has shot on those ranges? We're those ranges up to his own standard?

Piet, what do you intend doing with the money if you succeed, even if you get a million, you'll still not be able to shoot......


*To Grant and Aurelle : Keep up the good work, we're behind you 100%* :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## X-Factor

I think Piet should join the Jerry Springer show. He sure will get a run for his money there!!!!!!

I was one of the unfortunate archers that had to shoot behind Piet at Magnum Archery's tournament. I was flabagasted by his behaviour during the tournament. Their team apparently started up with 3 archers and one of them had to leave because he ran out of arrows. So Piet's team consisted of him and another archer. I actually felt sorry for his team mate purely because of Piet's attitude on the course. His fellow archer also only had a couple of arrows left *BUT HE WAS ADAMANT THAT HE WAS GOING TO COMPLETE THE COURSE*. You know who you are and I would like to say that, that is the kind of people we want in archery. You sure are a team player and everyone who knows you adores you purely because of your attitude toward the sport. Your attitude and persistence rubs off on everyone around you. Keep it up, you sure are a role model for bare bow archers.

Piet, I am speachless when I think of how you bahaved that day. I think even my four year old son is more mature that what you are. I, quite frankly, was so anoyed with your complaining that I wished you would just walk off the course as you were really filling the air with negative vibes. I pray that I never ever have the displeasure of shooting anywhere near you again.


To Grant and Aurelle - keep up the good work. Your support, hard work and participation in Archery is appreciated!

Dawn Engelbrecht - The X-Factor Archery Club (and proud of it)


----------



## Bushkey

X-Factor said:


> I think Piet should join the Jerry Springer show. He sure will get a run for his money there!!!!!!
> 
> I was one of the unfortunate archers that had to shoot behind Piet at Magnum Archery's tournament. I was flabagasted by his behaviour during the tournament. Their team apparently started up with 3 archers and one of them had to leave because he ran out of arrows. So Piet's team consisted of him and another archer. I actually felt sorry for his team mate purely because of Piet's attitude on the course. His fellow archer also only had a couple of arrows left *BUT HE WAS ADAMANT THAT HE WAS GOING TO COMPLETE THE COURSE*. You know who you are and I would like to say that, that is the kind of people we want in archery. You sure are a team player and everyone who knows you adores you purely because of your attitude toward the sport. Your attitude and persistence rubs off on everyone around you. Keep it up, you sure are a role model for bare bow archers.
> 
> Piet, I am speachless when I think of how you bahaved that day. I think even my four year old son is more mature that what you are. I, quite frankly, was so anoyed with your complaining that I wished you would just walk off the course as you were really filling the air with negative vibes. I pray that I never ever have the displeasure of shooting anywhere near you again.
> 
> 
> To Grant and Aurelle - keep up the good work. Your support, hard work and participation in Archery is appreciated!
> 
> Dawn Engelbrecht - The X-Factor Archery Club (and proud of it)


You raise an interesting point Dawn. I am not that fortunate/unfortunate. I don't know who "Piet" is. Now, I may stand at the next field or 3-D event and look at all the "stickbow" guys and think, are you "Piet" no maybe not, are you perhaps "Piet", well maybe not. He will put the rest of his discipline in a bad light through his behavior.


----------



## Hoyt Toplis

*O no Piet*

Piet Piet piet what have you done , do you realy know how to shoot , Or is it your trade bracking arrows . 

Well guys Got to say it is sad how Piet, can go out and get every one upset because he cant shoot . The Gauteng field to my standed was set up correct or all though it was a bit windy. The Range could not be dangerouse for any of the other archers because of rocks that would stop the arrows , I know that you would like a bigger butt to SAVE your arrows, As well if you never saw some compound archers also brake arrows. I also did not quallifey as well as a lot of outher compeditors .does this give us the right to also reshoot this event . I think not as it was the same conditons for all. If this type of conditions happen in Namibia next year can we approach the touniment director and ask them to cancell the day and reshoot it the following week when the conditions are more favrobile.THIS WILL DEFENATLEY NOT HAPPEN.
so piet if you want to attend any touniment please bring lots of arrrows,so that you can finish the shoot. all archers know that as soon as you release an arrow you have a chance that the arrow may get dammaged. this is a risk we all take.

Piet I got to say you are loosing at the moment , as you can see all the archers of South Africa are standing behind Grant and Aurelle , Piet by the way do you Know the meaning of wearing sprinbok colours, seems not because you are thinking of your own poor self again , instead of promoting the sport and shooting for your country.

*Grant and Aurelle thank you both so much for where you have taken the sport of archery in South Africa too . With out the both of you Archery in South Africa would not be where it is today . :wink: *


----------



## Bushkey

Welcome here Hoyt Toplis. I hope you are going to stick around on AT.


----------



## Hoyt-man

Its really amazing that this subject has had the most replies and wil quickly become the most viewed thread on the South African Forum? Probably show us how much this "piet" has upset everyone.


----------



## X-Factor

Piet has not just upset us ,he is threatening a sport that we all love and are all passionate about.

The thing that pleases me is that I am almost getting the feeling that we are going to *stand together *!!!

That I must tell you will be a first for me as far as a sport and the people are concerned.

I suspect in time to come we may even thank Piet for bonding us all together.


----------



## MikeV101

X-Factor said:


> ... please lets have a vote , I have volunteered to be that sucker :wink::wink::wink::wink:


I don't think the vote should be about a person (although it was piet that triggered it) if the vote is about acceptable behaviour, then I agree and he should be asked to resign from SANIFAA.


----------



## X-Factor

Hi MikeV101

I think you may have misconstrued my post.

We were talking about who the poor person would be that would have to spend a day with Pietie on a field range

I merely volunteered to be that person

I agree however that the vote should be whether he gets to continue belonging to the association or whether he should rather take up fly fishing or something else


----------



## X-Factor

Sorry , I did not complete my previous post.

Membership should be denied when a member is found guilty of uannaceptable behaviour, that I wholeheartedly agree with.

We are all supposed to all be ambassodors for our sport if I remember correctly.....


----------



## Arcuarius

*Change the Rules for One Archer*

Hi All

I am not a regular contributor to AT, but I have been reading these articles with avid interest....

I have a few comments to make:

There are always two sides to every story - I have heard both, first hand. And let's be honest, foul langage etc is never excusable, but Aurelle is not Mrs pleasantness herself either!

We are overlooking the fact that Piet is has prepresented our country in Archery - he has to know something about the sport to achieve this.

Furthermore he has contributed much of his time, effort and money to build archery in our province.

I for one have decided to adopt a "live and let live" attitude. 

I also attended the shoot that Spatan is talking about (howdy mate :wink. 

When I realised that I was not as prepared for the shoot as i thought (I believe I have the honour of being the first to "carpet tune" Henry Devine's carpets at butt 28 - an 80mtr shot, and donate my first arrow of the day to the trees), I retired at the end of the first day.

For the record - I am neither Pro-Piet, or against Piet, just sharing my 5c worth!


----------



## Hoyt-man

Arcuarius said:


> Hi All
> 
> I for one have decided to adopt a "live and let live" attitude.


Hi Arcuarius. 

There is just one problem. The "live and let live" attitude will not work if SANIFAA goes under goverment curatorship... And does "piet" really think that doing this, that he will benefit in regards to better arrowfriendly ranges. I dont think so.

I have met a lot of great people because of archery, and to have to stop because one person cannot behave/contain himself will really be heartbreaking.


----------



## spatan

*Hi right back at ya!!*

Arcuarius,Where you been Girl??

I hope this whole smelly affair does not rip archery in this country a new hole.....:zip: I also watch with interest.

Nice to have you on A.T,
Thanks for all your work for archery in KZN we need more of your sort in the PMB club.

Spatan:cocktail:


----------



## Manie

Arcuarius said:


> There are always two sides to every story - I have heard both, first hand. And let's be honest, foul langage etc is never excusable, but Aurelle is not Mrs pleasantness herself either!


That certainly doesn't make his behaviour acceptable. Has he not done more damage than good?


----------



## Karoojager

Sorry that I hijack this thread for a private question.

Marnie, are you the finger release shooter from the WFAC 2000 in Thabazimbi ?
The person right at the podium ?


----------



## Manie

Karoojager said:


> Sorry that I hijack this thread for a private question.
> 
> Marnie, are you the finger release shooter from the WFAC 2000 in Thabazimbi ?
> The person right at the podium ?


No, that's not me.


----------



## Bushkey

Arcuarius said:


> Hi All
> 
> I am not a regular contributor to AT, but I have been reading these articles with avid interest....
> 
> I have a few comments to make:
> 
> There are always two sides to every story - I have heard both, first hand. And let's be honest, foul langage etc is never excusable, but Aurelle is not Mrs pleasantness herself either!
> 
> We are overlooking the fact that Piet is has prepresented our country in Archery - he has to know something about the sport to achieve this.
> 
> Furthermore he has contributed much of his time, effort and money to build archery in our province.
> 
> I for one have decided to adopt a "live and let live" attitude.
> 
> I also attended the shoot that Spatan is talking about (howdy mate :wink.
> 
> When I realised that I was not as prepared for the shoot as i thought (I believe I have the honour of being the first to "carpet tune" Henry Devine's carpets at butt 28 - an 80mtr shot, and donate my first arrow of the day to the trees), I retired at the end of the first day.
> 
> For the record - I am neither Pro-Piet, or against Piet, just sharing my 5c worth!


Speaking of time and money. I can guaranty you, Aurelle spends a lot more of her own time and money on archery than most people, and she does it for the love of the sport. She has shot/competed far and wide and represented our country on numerous occasions. If I am not mistaking some of her records are still not broken to date. 

Towards me and my friends she has only been good, helpful and always extremely friendly. You must understand that she has to deal with every archer, and not all of us are always patient, courteous, helpful or friendly towards her. What you see is what you get, and I am very thankful to her and Grant for what they have done, and still will do for the sport of indoor and field archery in our country.


----------



## Karoojager

Manie said:


> No, that's not me.


Sorry Manie, what a pity
I search since years for Jarod ( left ) and Manie ( right ).
This was very honorable rivals at the world champion title.
I think "piet" can take a lesson from them.:zip:


----------



## Arcuarius

*Adios*

Hi All

Let me just clarify my position....

I agree with what everyone has said, it isn't in the best interest of the sport to involve politics.

I also do not condone how Piet has behaved, but I met Piet in the early '90's when I first started shooting, and he has always been consistent with his requests for the rights of Recurve archers to be respected.

I shoot compound - that is my choice. He chooses to shoot recurve. We should all have the right to be able to practise our sport in the manner of our choosing.

I have yet to hear from someone who has chatted to Piet to hear his side of the story before everyone picked sides?

See you round...


----------



## Manie

Arcuarius said:


> Hi All
> 
> Let me just clarify my position....
> 
> I agree with what everyone has said, it isn't in the best interest of the sport to involve politics.
> 
> I also do not condone how Piet has behaved, but I met Piet in the early '90's when I first started shooting, and he has always been consistent with his requests for the rights of Recurve archers to be respected.
> 
> I shoot compound - that is my choice. He chooses to shoot recurve. We should all have the right to be able to practise our sport in the manner of our choosing.
> 
> I have yet to hear from someone who has chatted to Piet to hear his side of the story before everyone picked sides?
> 
> See you round...


True, it is not in the best interest of the sport to involve politics. This is exactly what Piet has done. You only have to read his lawyers letter to see this blatantly obvious fact We all know that the race card is played whenever there is no real defence, and this is exactly what he has done. 

He knows that his behaviour and attitude is unacceptable, and has pulled every trick out of the hat to try and defend it and draw attention from it. He then threatens us by saying he will run to the sports authorities – but that you can read in the letter.

So once again, Piet has shown his true colours, as it is he that wants to involve both politics and politicians to try and justify his behaviour. Excellent point raised.

True, he can choose to shoot whatever he wants to. But that does not give him the right to act like a 3 year old baby, purposefuly break arrows, throw them at Aurelle and then blame others for his actions. This is the point.

I don’t think it’s a matter of picking sides. It seems as we all accept that his behaviour has been inappropriate, and that the way in which he tries to justify his behaviour even more so. Even you do.

If he were so concerned, why has he not got involved in setting up the ranges? Why has he not spoken to the organisers beforehand? Why has he not set guidelines of his needs? There are obvious answers to these questions.

You write asking about his side. His side of the story is clear and is in the letter. Perhaps you have not read it? 

The bottom line is that despite his behaviour and his letter (which clearly gives his viewpoint), Piet is right. If he was not right, why is it that SANIFAA have not taken any action against him? Why is it that the deadline of the letter has passed and no action has been taken? We know this from his most recent behaviour.

Piet has many points which by the lack of action taken against him have merit. But his behaviour is unacceptable, and it is because of that behaviour and the type of image that he projects towards the sport (even given all the pros), that he must go.

I certainly would never tolerate that type of behaviour towards my daughter, and if I were involved in an organisation that did, I would leave.


----------



## 1400wannabe

I have been following this issue for a long time now. The amount of e-mails that I have heard about makes it really rediculous that an issue like this has gone so far.

"Piet" has voiced his concerns in the past on more than one occation. The way he has behaved is, however, totally unlike a professional person. 
I am fully behind Aurelle and Grant and really do believe that they are doing a great job.

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Thus I would rather see "Piet" leave the sport than stay on.

Archers usually welcome most people for different walks of life, but considering this issue is like a poison to the host, maybe the only antidote is to consider his point of view in regards to ranges, but to get him to leave the sport for good.

His suggestions in regards to arrowfriendly ranges does have warrent for stickbow guys and beginners. I can just remember how many arrows I lost at the Louis Trichard shoots years back. It was a great range... but really arrow unfriendly... But it was a great range because it was so radical...Also in the same tone, his conduct does warrent a suspension or something more permanent. We can only wait to see what the organisation does.


----------



## Hungry Lion

I believe that this "piet" character is suffering from - nero siphilis-. A disease that impacts the brain. He must have a pretty thick skull. I have heard that he is still on the warpath, and is targeting all the ranges in SA to rebuilt there ranges...just for him!!!!!!!!!! Crazy isn't it? I know my local Club has banned him from there range.


----------



## Matatazela

*Guys, lets cool it on the personal insults directed at Piet. Keep it civil, and we may actually get somewhere. *

The SA forum has always been a great forum because we keep things civil, and while we are all masters at ribbing one another, we do not resort to ugly, personal attacks. 

Manie, Hungry Lion and 1400wannabe, there is *no* info in your profiles. That is pretty cowardly, considering your strong words against Piet. Let's act as though we are all talking face to face, rather than hide behind cyber-anonnymity!


----------



## Manie

Matatazela said:


> *Guys, lets cool it on the personal insults directed at Piet. Keep it civil, and we may actually get somewhere. *
> 
> The SA forum has always been a great forum because we keep things civil, and while we are all masters at ribbing one another, we do not resort to ugly, personal attacks.
> 
> Manie, Hungry Lion and 1400wannabe, there is *no* info in your profiles. That is pretty cowardly, considering your strong words against Piet. Let's act as though we are all talking face to face, rather than hide behind cyber-anonnymity!


A very poor response indeed, trying to take the focus off the issue on hand. In the first sentence you talk about being civil and not resorting to ugly attacks, then in the very next paragraph you do the same by accusing me of being cowardly. You should be ashamed of yourself – Manie Visser (Pretoria)


----------



## Matatazela

Manie said:


> A very poor response indeed, trying to take the focus off the issue on hand. In the first sentence you talk about being civil and not resorting to ugly attacks, then in the very next paragraph you do the same by accusing me of being cowardly. You should be ashamed of yourself – Manie Visser (Pretoria)


I absolutely and uncategorically withdraw the comment regarding Manie. 


The issue at hand is about how we as archers behave. Please don't take my comment personally, as it was meant to get the exact response it did - those that are man enough to do so, will fill in their profiles and not hide behind internet anonymity while throwing insults around.

Hopefully I will be withdrawing the comment regarding the other guys, and I trust that we can still get along in the future.


----------



## Hungry Lion

Matazela

I agree with you in a certain way, But I have personally dealt with him, talked to him and been verbally attacked by him. I think this topic is getting way to much airtime. Piet is actually on his way of becoming somebody with all these posts, lets keep him a nobody, who is trying to do damage to Archery in SA. We should stand together and fight him, not each other.
Viva Archery SA!! and Go cheetas go!!!


----------



## Trad Mad

*new 2 forum*

hi - new to forum and traditional mad-"haasie's" outburst uncalled for and should be punished, we all agree. have shot with "haasie" before and wouldn't go looking to repeat the experience. number of reasons - main one being his set up.his bow ( when i shot with him) had some added features and his arrows had cresting or markings - well put it this way , can only be for one reason. i was told it was for penetration on the butt.(cresting was on front of arrow) make what u like of this.
anyway,besides all the "haasie" added features(arrows- glasses-bow) there is some points that are valid. there are 3 trad guys at this shoot', what a **** turn out. there is a problem!!!!!!!!!. if u guys (as compound shooters where to break a arrow on every 2nd butt or couldn't finish a shoot because of arrows you would be upset( no questions asked) 
yes - trad guys pick there weapon and the results of this is his or her choice. have shot some field ranges and will never return there. didn't take anyone to court but they will never see me again( or many other trad. archers). 3 archers at a shoot can not speak for traditional archery in south africa. that is a very low percentage and really doesn't mean anything. traditional archers don't receive recognition that we should and he(haasie) has gone the wrong route . in europe you will get 200 - 300 trad archers at at shoot 
( various reasons-hunting not allowed in many countries etc.)
he has a point but totally in the wrong way. trad guys are in general very good people but there is a - " HAASIE" .
having a braai with fellow archers right now that heard about this today in a archery shop and we all feel the same - he is only hurting traditional archery and we feel his type of behaviour is not welcome at any archery event.

Grant
p.s don't keep this against the trad guys.

keep the beers cold and the arrows straight


----------



## Hungry Lion

Hi Grant

What do you suggest we do to get the Trad guys back. I remember at some big shoots the Trad guys were the loudest and the best people to have on a shoot. Now theyve gone. Why? Are the ranges to difficult? What do you think?


----------



## gui

:darkbeer:Hi guys. 
First time on a forum and would like to give my 2 cents worth. I always watch the trads when they shoot. Think these guys have guts. You have to have guts if you shoot with no ancor point, site and no back stop. Hell one day when I'm big and I can shoot I'm going to try that. But at the moment ill stay with my compound bow, my fancy scope sight and my release aid.
On the other hand is Piet. He is doing more harm than good. My fiance' is new to the sport and the Pta shoot was her second competition she participated in. And then this guy went off like that. He can be glad i was not near him. Don't have respect for someone doing what he did. 
And to all the other Trads out there. You guys rock. And maybe some day when I can shoot a bow I will come and join you. I agree we must make ranges arrow friendly. Not just for trads but also for people new to the sport. 
guy


----------



## Nosmo King

MikeV101 said:


> Look what he says - and he has the support of the sanifaa president!


What makes you so sure he has the support of the sanifaa president ?


----------



## Nosmo King

Matatazela said:


> Hi Hoytman and welcome to the AT boards.
> 
> Between you and Adriaan, you make a few very good points.
> 
> I hope that the chairman of SANIFAA is only on 'Piets' side because he has not heard the full story. That may need attending to by someone in the loop.
> 
> I agree with the Right of Admission' sign, but then his threats of having SANIFAA placed under government management must be dealt with seperately. I would have to suggest that that statement on its own is vidence that he does not have the organizations' interests at heart, but his own interests, again something that requires further investigation with the powers that be.


Guys - again a statement that the Chairman of sanifaa supports Piet - Just by saying so does not make it the truth. Who said he supports Piet ?


----------



## Nosmo King

Hungry Lion said:


> Hi Grant
> 
> What do you suggest we do to get the Trad guys back. I remember at some big shoots the Trad guys were the loudest and the best people to have on a shoot. Now theyve gone. Why? Are the ranges to difficult? What do you think?


The sanifaa newsletter a while back said sanifaa supports all styles and wanted to attract more Trad archers - it even started a new Longbow class with shorter distances and another new class for Traditional bows

Nosmo


----------



## Nosmo King

Matatazela said:


> Sounds like an unpleasant person, indeed.
> 
> The thing here is that he may actually be correct in insisting on protection around the butt. If that is written in the rules, then he is in the right. As a lawyer, he will know this. However, there is nothing against the law in forming a pettition, where club members can oppose his behaviour as damaging to the sport.
> 
> It sounds to me as though he doesn't care about what is good, but about what is right. You may have to get another lawyer to sort this out.


Nope - nothing in the sanifaa rules about protection around a butt. It may bi in the rules of another federation or even the IFAA (I think that was said somewhere in ?) for some specific event - but nothing in the RSA associations
Nosmo


----------



## Philip Moolman

*Hasie*



Trad Mad said:


> hi - new to forum and traditional mad-"haasie's" outburst uncalled for and should be punished, we all agree. have shot with "haasie" before and wouldn't go looking to repeat the experience. number of reasons - main one being his set up.his bow ( when i shot with him) had some added features and his arrows had cresting or markings - well put it this way , can only be for one reason. i was told it was for penetration on the butt.(cresting was on front of arrow) make what u like of this.
> anyway,besides all the "haasie" added features(arrows- glasses-bow) there is some points that are valid. there are 3 trad guys at this shoot', what a **** turn out. there is a problem!!!!!!!!!. if u guys (as compound shooters where to break a arrow on every 2nd butt or couldn't finish a shoot because of arrows you would be upset( no questions asked)
> yes - trad guys pick there weapon and the results of this is his or her choice. have shot some field ranges and will never return there. didn't take anyone to court but they will never see me again( or many other trad. archers). 3 archers at a shoot can not speak for traditional archery in south africa. that is a very low percentage and really doesn't mean anything. traditional archers don't receive recognition that we should and he(haasie) has gone the wrong route . in europe you will get 200 - 300 trad archers at at shoot
> ( various reasons-hunting not allowed in many countries etc.)
> he has a point but totally in the wrong way. trad guys are in general very good people but there is a - " HAASIE" .
> having a braai with fellow archers right now that heard about this today in a archery shop and we all feel the same - he is only hurting traditional archery and we feel his type of behaviour is not welcome at any archery event.
> 
> Grant
> p.s don't keep this against the trad guys.
> 
> keep the beers cold and the arrows straight


Sad that we loose people with your kind of humor.I am a compound bow hunter and also own a Stacey Groscup and one other recurve.Just a recommendation:to keep fu#456up hasie happy and get nice people like you back at competitions would it not be possible to make the course easier/shorter.But then Haasie fu&&nut must obey the rules.Are you serious about the cresting,die dom poephol.Or just ban the rabbit panty moer from competitions


----------



## Matatazela

Sheesh! :whip2:


----------



## Bushkey

Matatazela said:


> Sheesh! :whip2:


???


----------



## Bushcat

Whats wrong Matatazele, making new friends. Chortle

Bushcat


----------



## Philip Moolman

*Trads*

Sorry guys I do not compete anymore,so I forgot a lot.What distances do the TRADS shoot?Do they shoot from the same pens as we do.If so,shorten theirs a bit(I know it is a much more difficult discipline).Another option is to give them handicaps like in golf,eg.if you choose to shoot the nearer distances your handicap would be on the lower side and visa versa.But we surely do not need dishonest/unmannered donners like this,Loet you must get rid of this guy!!
Regards
Philip Moolman


----------



## Matatazela

Philip Moolman said:


> ...fu#456up...Haasie fu&&nut ...die dom poephol....rabbit panty moer ...


Aren't we supposed to be self moderating in "take it easy" mode or something???


----------



## Philip Moolman

*Apology*



Matatazela said:


> Aren't we supposed to be self moderating in "take it easy" mode or something???


Sorry James and all the others!


----------



## Bushkey

Matatazela said:


> Sheesh! :whip2:


O, you mean like that:wink:


----------



## Matatazela

Philip Moolman said:


> Sorry James and all the others!


No worries. Dude, my keyboard is sticky from spitting coffee all over, because I laughed at your post!

Die censors het geen idee wat hier in ons hoekie aangaan nie, wat 'n goeie ding is. :wink:


----------



## mogodu

Ditsem
Se dit soos dit is Philiph:wink:
Sien jou Saterdag
Stefan


----------

