# Osage Orange Bows?



## bulldog42

ok. i have heard that osage orange bows are the best and toughest bows out there. are they slower or faster than other bows? what is your input on this. just something i was wondering about. once again, put your input.


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## crispy7229

*like to know myself*

like to know my self there is a guy close to my home selling two osage orange bow staffs he didn't finish for $50 each or $80 for both is it a good buy?


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## bulldog42

i have no clue man. im guessing that it is a good buy as long as you know how to finish them. sorry but i dont know. i started this thread because im just getting into traditional archery and wanted to know the difference. sorry i cant help you on that one.


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## huntersteve

Osage...to me....is one of the better bow woods that there is....I have a bamboo backed osage that i bought and it is a great shooter.....If I had access to osage where I live...that's what i would be building all my bow's out of.....but to buy Osage staves can be a little pricy.....so i stick to good ole Hickory and Red Oak......Steve


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## bulldog42

sweet. we live in kansas so theres PLENTY of osage around here. just would need to find a good piece and learn how to make a bow.


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## huntersteve

bulldog...PM sent to you.....


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## huntersteve

crispy...PM sent to you also...Steve


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## BLACK WOLF

Osage is my favorite wood to build primitive bows with. It's super strong and tough...and it's color is cool 

Ray


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## shamus005

if you are referring to selfbows (bows made of wood, no glass), then DESIGN is the key. 

Match the right design to the species of wood and tiller it well, the rest will follow. 

"What is the best wood?" is often asked when one is making their first bow, but that question is the wrong focus. The questions we should ask are (in order):


1. What are the best woods for the relative humidity of my climate?
 2. What are the best designs for those woods?

More thoughts of mine on that:http://analogperiphery.blogspot.com/2007/02/selfbows-and-bowyery_23.html

hope it helps.


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## Flying Dutchman

What wood the lims are made of, is not an issue. It is 95% the design of the bow determing how it shoots.


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## kegan

For fiberglass lim laminations, it is a poor choice. Very heavy. Even the regular maple cores is better.

For selfbows, is is a forgiving wood. The high density, compression strength, and elasticity make it easy to get a good longbow of proper weight, and it's relatively easy to work. I don't have any growing around here that are available for cutting, so I stick with white oak and hickory. I've done two Osage bows and about a hundred white wood bows, and both of my Osage bows failed after a while. The wood doesn't lead to as much success as design and building (like Shamus said). 

Best and toughest? No. Fastest? No. A quality bow wood? _Definately_.


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## anw0625

Is bamboo any better for bow?


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## kegan

anw0625 said:


> Is bamboo any better for bow?


For FG inner lams, yes. For laminate wooden bows, yes.


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## huntersteve

bamboo is a great backing for wood bows.....one of my favorites..Steve


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## christophe

Here one of my osage orange longbows: 68", stringfollow, 70#@27, 5 lams: osage back and belly, 3 inner lams of bamboo. Reiser is made of palo santo, one of the heaviest ironwood (to soften handshock and vibrations). Bowyer is Puma Arqueria in Argentina.

- chris


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## steve ypsi mi

*are they slower or faster than other bows*

are they slower or faster than other bows

Osage is a average speed wood, tough, very good wood 
If you had a 60 LB bow osage 160 FPS
Yew same pounds and length 170 FPS but much more fragile.
Built a few and did a lot of crono checking, 66 to 68 is a good length , shorter and same pounds will shoot faster but not as easy to shoot.. 
what Makes a self bow shoot well is when at its full draw that the shape of the limbs look like a c shape, if the limbs are flat looking won't be as fast or good shooting, the last 15 inchs on both ends should be tapered in to a small nock, wide flat limbs at this point have more weight and bulk to spring forward loosing speed and causing hand shock
the lighter the wood the faster the bow, less mass to go forward, Made a few hundred laminated bows, same thing but the osage was slower than Say Yew,Red cedar, Walnut and some others were all faster.
When it comes down to it after fooling around for 20 or so years, In a self bow speed is not that important, around 160 FPS is almost Ideal, 155 to 165 FPS is good for shooting instinct, very hard to shoot instinct with a bow aproaching 200 FPS, brain has a hard time with the drop at close range like 20 yds
Thats My 2 cent's and I am sticking by it


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## kegan

steve ypsi mi said:


> are they slower or faster than other bows
> 
> Osage is a average speed wood, tough, very good wood
> If you had a 60 LB bow osage 160 FPS
> Yew same pounds and length 170 FPS but much more fragile.
> Built a few and did a lot of crono checking, 66 to 68 is a good length , shorter and same pounds will shoot faster but not as easy to shoot..
> what Makes a self bow shoot well is when at its full draw that the shape of the limbs look like a c shape, if the limbs are flat looking won't be as fast or good shooting, the last 15 inchs on both ends should be tapered in to a small nock, wide flat limbs at this point have more weight and bulk to spring forward loosing speed and causing hand shock
> the lighter the wood the faster the bow, less mass to go forward, Made a few hundred laminated bows, same thing but the osage was slower than Say Yew,Red cedar, Walnut and some others were all faster.
> When it comes down to it after fooling around for 20 or so years, In a self bow speed is not that important, around 160 FPS is almost Ideal, 155 to 165 FPS is good for shooting instinct, very hard to shoot instinct with a bow aproaching 200 FPS, brain has a hard time with the drop at close range like 20 yds
> Thats My 2 cent's and I am sticking by it


I dunno about the fiberglass laminates, but you're a little off in the selfbow part there...

Slefbows with a full arc of circle tiller are NOT ideal. Quite the contrary. The outer limbs should be stiff and nonbending. It reduces vibration and increases mechanical efficiency. If the inner limbs are left wide enough to contend with this strain, the final bow will be a superior weapon. Further, slefbows all shoot the same if designed the same, because less dense woods need more wood in the limbs to pull the same.

As for the speed, that's entirely opinion. Except selfbows can and do shoot faster (upwards of 170-175 for 28" draw and ~ 10 gpp arrow). Personally, I like a fast bow as long as it's also stable. Makes it easier to aim, and my mind gets so lazy!

Though, there are a number of archers who shoot exceptionally well insticntively (or at least barebow) with ~200+ fps bows (like Ray)


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## habanero

*if anybody is interested*

I have plenty of osage, and a sawmill. I could cut whatever you want or even find a bow shaped branch if that would work, I have zero knowledge of bow building. I won't charge you a fortune if you would like some. PM if interested.


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## bulldog42

yea. we have plenty of osage where i live. so it shouldnt be a problem


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## woodbow

I've made plenty of excellant bows using whitewoods and highly recommend Hickory for one's early attempts at selfbow making..

Overall, thru the years, Osage has/is still my favorite selfbow wood. Each species of wood will make an excellant bow if you know the proper design to use that takes advantage of each wood species strong/weak points.

Take advantage of the wood species that's available in your area.. Don't forget the lumber yard too.

woodbow


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## kegan

You know, of all the woods I've worked- hickory, Osage, bamboo, elm, hornbeam, red oak, white oak, mulberry, sassafras, silver maple, honey locust, sourwood, ipe, cherry, hawthorne, and crab apple, my all time favorite is white oak. It's easy to cut and prep, relatively easy to season, and takes an abuse like no other wood in my area.


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## polkcavediver

Will osage grow in Florida? I would like to get some seeds from a hedge apple and try it. I have to buy my staves out of state.


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## Pdwight

*We have it in Alabama*

I grew up busting hedge apples with base ball bats, pretending they were bombs when I was playing "Man from Uncle" as a youngster.

Dwight

www.rimfireshooting.com


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## elk country rp

seems like _most_ bowyers i've talked to start their list with either yew or osage as #1, so you've got no excuse for not trying osage.....


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## landrylm

Pdwight said:


> I grew up busting hedge apples with base ball bats, pretending they were bombs when I was playing "Man from Uncle" as a youngster.
> 
> Dwight
> 
> www.rimfireshooting.com


Well...that shows your age. Course, I enjoyed the re-runs as a kid....wonder if they have that series out on DVD yet?


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## ArtV

Most self bow bowyers I know including a ligament guru, Dean Torges, think Osage is by far the best bow wood for self bows. The best combination in selfbows is osage and backed with bamboo.

I've never seen a yew that could shoot as fast as osage...when comparing identical pounds and draw length...yew has more of a tendency to develop a "set" and seems always to be softer at first pull than osage.
Art


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## kegan

ArtV said:


> Most self bow bowyers I know including a ligament guru, Dean Torges, think Osage is by far the best bow wood for self bows. The best combination in selfbows is osage and backed with bamboo.
> 
> I've never seen a yew that could shoot as fast as osage...when comparing identical pounds and draw length...yew has more of a tendency to develop a "set" and seems always to be softer at first pull than osage.
> Art


Torges prefers short bows. Osage has a higher elasticity, so is perfect for that design. However, if you design the _bow_ to the _wood_, you can use just about any wood and make a great shooting bow.

Bamboo backed Osage is a laminate bow. A selfbow is a bow made form a single piece of mateiral.

Yew can outshoot Osage. So canhickory, pecan, maple, oak, locust, elm, hornbeam, etc. etc. etc. Just because the examples you've seen showed otherwise doesn't mean that it's a law.


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## 45-70cannon

bulldog42 said:


> ok. i have heard that osage orange bows are the best and toughest bows out there. are they slower or faster than other bows? what is your input on this. just something i was wondering about. once again, put your input.


My Hill bow is bamboo and osage and I luv it! Osage is one of the greatest woods going for bows, along with bamboo, yew, and Honey Locust.


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## bowtech94

yes its a very solid wood


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## 45-70cannon

My buddy and I are looking at ordering another H. Hill bow and I think he is going for the Owl, Osage outter lams with a bamboo core. I will either do a Honey Locust outter l am with bamboo core, or the Half Breed with yew on the outside and bamboo cored, and clear glass too. That will be the ultimate shooter.


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## SteAlthunter

*Growth rings?*



kegan said:


> For fiberglass lim laminations, it is a poor choice. Very heavy. Even the regular maple cores is better.
> 
> and both of my Osage bows failed after a while. The wood doesn't lead to as much success as design and building (like Shamus said).
> 
> Best and toughest? No. Fastest? No. A quality bow wood? _Definately_.


Did you follow a growth ring on the back of your bows? One has to do this with black locust too.


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## WindWalker

> _Will osage grow in Florida? I would like to get some seeds from a hedge apple and try it. I have to buy my staves out of state. _


Osage would probably grow on Mars. 

Osage Orange does grow fast; how fast I don't know. But I would believe that by the time a _seed-planted _Osage reaches an age, size, and hardness that you need for staves, you will probably be in for a long wait.


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## warrenpeace

Just come up here to Missouri and get you some. A idea of how fast it grows and how tough it is. We had a major ice storm in 01 or 02 I cut several Osage Orange, hedgeapple Bow Darc whatever you want to call them down to stumps. The limbs that grew from the stumps are about 20 feet tall now. If you were to plant a Osage Orange tree in Florida you would hate it. They produce lots of apples. My whole fence row is that kind of tree. Its even tougher when its dead.


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## kegan

SteAlthunter said:


> Did you follow a growth ring on the back of your bows? One has to do this with black locust too.


Sorta. None of the Osage I had were very thick ringed or intact- they all got a backing (cloth, sinew, bamboo).


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## BLACK WOLF

What makes osage tough is that it's a very hard wood. Osage has also been used to make clubs....which makes it a great choice for hunting bows because you can accidently drop it, bump it against tree limbs or other objects and there is little to no risk of damaging the bow...whereas some other woods aren't as resilient.

Ray :shade:


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## Pdwight

landrylm said:


> Well...that shows your age. Course, I enjoyed the re-runs as a kid....wonder if they have that series out on DVD yet?


Yes it is....and like most things that looked great as a kid.....it's hard to watch now. I also loved The Avengers as a kid...it's hard to watch now as well.


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