# Shooting long distance with large diameter arrows



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Probably FOC will not be good.


Chris


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## TheLongbowShoot (Mar 23, 2012)

Thank you.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Low density. They don't carry energy that efficiently. Ratio between mass and surface area. Skin drag too high.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Carbon Ones are cheaper than Fatboys. About $30 a dozen cheaper.


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## TheLongbowShoot (Mar 23, 2012)

I know. I got 14 Fatboys for $45


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

TheLongbowShoot said:


> Besides wind drift.. whats the problem with shooting large diameter arrows at 60+ yards?
> I can't afford to buy any small diameter such as the " Easton Carbon Ones" so I am just shooting my Fatboys at 60 yards. I am having bad problems with wind drift but besides that, are their any other problems with shooting large arrows for long distance?


I used Genesis 1920 arrows out to 70 meters when I was shooting barebow. Past that distance the disadvantage is that the riser gets in the way of the target so you can't sight anymore. They have a pretty big trajectory -- one compound archer described my arrows as "telephone poles".


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

I had some good success shooting my X-Busters with 125 grain points with 85 grain inserts. Used 4 inch shield cut feathers.
Managed to get 70m indoors with my 90m marks, but they flew incredibly well. Any time I took them outdoors though, the wind would cause them to sail away from the target


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

cbrunson said:


> Carbon Ones are cheaper than Fatboys. About $30 a dozen cheaper.


True, but sounds like he already has the Fatboys.


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## arrowyn (Jul 4, 2013)

Equip them with vanes (low profile ones). I notice feathers seem to die out around 50 meters and I have to go artillery (arc them in). I got 2314's for free and threw on 125 grain heads with vanes. They're not as accurate as I'd like but at 90 if I'm good form they'll hit the bale like Batman checking out Vicky Vale. Also they have skinny hunter arrows that cost cheaper than usual premium skinny arrows for future arrow purchases.


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## bone74 (Aug 15, 2010)

Check out the Victory VAP V6. Great arrow and you will save money.


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

Victory VAP, Black Eagle Deep Impacts, Black Eagle Rampage are all good small diameter arrows that would be cheaper than the Easton ACE.


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## rstgyx (Apr 13, 2013)

I use Beman Carbon Flash arrows with 30mm XS wings and 70grain points. They're $2.50/shaft on Lancaster but they perform pretty well. I can reach 70m with my sight fully extended and about 2.5cm left on the elevation bar. (28.5" draw with #36 med limbs so about #37 OTF)

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/beman-carbon-flash-arrow-shaft.html


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Wind drift and trajectory are the only issues. Trajectory can be played with a little by adjusting FOC...wind drift- about the only thing you can do is use low profile fletching with a little offset- straight is fine too.


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

ohiobullseye said:


> Victory VAP, Black Eagle Deep Impacts, Black Eagle Rampage are all good small diameter arrows that would be cheaper than the Easton ACE.


A/C/E arrows would be well outside his price range anyway if he says he can't afford to grab a new set of carbon ones at less than half the cost. VAPs cost more unless you get the V6 (IIRC, though the v6 might be ok if you're not shooting a huge score or cut from back and front) Deep Impacts cost about the same as Carbon ones and by the specs may as well just be better straightness Carbon Ones, and the Rampage cost about the same too but the Black Eagle arrows have the disadvantage of only being offered in the heavier spines of .600 and up. I personally use the x-impacts but I am shooting near 50lbs and 29.75 inch draw length on a very high performance limb, and I still have to use an extended clicker with the .400 spine because there was no 450. Getting a Black Eagle to spine for a recurve doesn't happen unless you have long arms, big bow weight, or both. 
The other solution is of course, shoot them off a compound bow!


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

Actually, archery did exist before we had carbon arrows...


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Mika Savola said:


> Actually, archery did exist before we had carbon arrows...


Yep it came shortly after aluminums. :doh:


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## jtc900502 (Mar 17, 2013)

Amen on victory vap v6.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

People have been shooting +1200 on the FITA since before fast flight, carbon arrows or carbon/foam limbs.

I shoot standard diameter carbons barebow at 70m. Sure they drift a bit more in heavy wind, but not enough to be what is holding me back.

-Grant


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

grantmac said:


> People have been shooting +1200 on the FITA since before fast flight, carbon arrows or carbon/foam limbs./QUOTE]
> 
> Oh yeah, PB 1256 with xx75 1916, Yamaha glass fiber limbs and kevlar string...


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

The best thing the OP can do is not change arrows for a while...he needs to learn how to" shoot the wind". 

In addition to learning the effect wind has on various arrow designs, he needs to learn how to wait for the right condition...either waiting for a similar gust or wait for a valley...learning what the wind is doing down range. 

Though a bit frustrating, the fatboys will simply make him a better archer.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

grantmac said:


> People have been shooting +1200 on the FITA since before fast flight, carbon arrows or carbon/foam limbs.
> 
> I shoot standard diameter carbons barebow at 70m. Sure they drift a bit more in heavy wind, but not enough to be what is holding me back.
> 
> -Grant


I know many people who shoot +1300 with Angel Dyneema, X-10 and other assortments of small diameter carbon/carbon/aluminum arrows.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

theminoritydude said:


> I know many people who shoot +1300 with Angel Dyneema, X-10 and other assortments of small diameter carbon/carbon/aluminum arrows.


Yeah...
I think you completely missed the point of Grants post...


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

bobnikon said:


> Yeah...
> I think you completely missed the point of Grants post...


Which is? Shooting +1200 with "standard diameter" carbon arrows and other legacy equipment? Did I get it right?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

how about we do more to help this guy?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

.......but you wouldn't tell me what the point is.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Because I thought the whole discussion stopped at wind drift.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

theminoritydude said:


> Which is? Shooting +1200 with "standard diameter" carbon arrows and other legacy equipment? Did I get it right?


If you actually read through the posts before you chime in with your oh so sage wisdom, you would note that the OP said he cant afford the carbon ones right now, much less x10s.

Are you offering him a set of x10s? If so, you are on topic and generous, if not, try and contribute in a meaningful manner.

cheers


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## wags2 (Jan 26, 2009)

What are your bow specs? I'm new to this but I'm shooting 1716 alluminum with right at 32#'s otf and am making 60 meters. I'm a little old school been shooting alluminum for along time out of compounds and hunting recurves(25 years or so). Might be a cheaper alternative.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

longbow- here is a link on some archery physics that may help you understand the issues that come up with fat arrows in regards to wind drift. There isn't much you can do but there are a few things...FOC for instance. take a look at this write up...
http://www.tap46home.plus.com/mechanics/


Wags- you're stooting a fairly thin arrow- 17/64"...OP is shooting 23/64"....your arrow produces much less drag than the OP. I'm shooting some 18's and some woodies (have no idea the OD) and with about 35#, I can make it past 80 with 18's (I'm aiming a few feet over the bail- but it makes it). Woodies- somewhere between 60/70.


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## UtahIdahoHunter (Mar 27, 2008)

jtc900502 said:


> Amen on victory vap v6.


+1 On the Vaps


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

bobnikon said:


> If you actually read through the posts before you chime in with your oh so sage wisdom, you would note that the OP said he cant afford the carbon ones right now, much less x10s.
> 
> Are you offering him a set of x10s? If so, you are on topic and generous, if not, try and contribute in a meaningful manner.
> 
> cheers


I do contribute in a meaningful manner. If one has exhausted all avenues and identified the bottleneck, the next step would be to work towards eliminating that bottleneck, instead of having to stay with the same bottleneck and try to achieve a different result.


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

to the OP... I am a compound hunter/3d/some target guy and recently joined a club where the emphasis is JOAD and the Olympic style recurve launching arrows at distance. what an eye opener. after them seriously questioning my manhood, I stepped up to the line with a hoyt VE+ and heavy Full Bores. what a shock. this was a few months ago and I feel like I am again at the bottom of the learning curve. these guys are very good coaches and when they help their students, I get close to listen... this has helped more than anything equipment related.

as people above mentioned, equipment is only part of it. form is extremely critical and reading the elements seems to be a lifelong study. these guys shoot in every weather condition since that's what happens in their tourneys. they have an acute awareness of wind direction, gusts, and humidity since it all affects their equipment. they may aim off center, lean the bow, and have other tricks to compensate. on one windy day, i asked a former national team guy where he was aiming and he said "middle of the red." say what? the biggest shocker is they are constantly adjusting something, which is something I would never do before.

I first blamed the arrows and picked up some x10's, which helped a little but not nearly as much as I had hoped. my stance and bow arm were huge culprits and have been working on that religiously. as far as your arrows, perhaps save some $$$$ and drop to more of the standard hunting shaft size before dropping a nut in the toothpick shafts, or just shoot what you have... but keep a sense of humor.

I am hooked at shooting at these distances. It a monster challenge.


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## jtc900502 (Mar 17, 2013)

TheLongbowShoot said:


> Besides wind drift.. whats the problem with shooting large diameter arrows at 60+ yards?
> I can't afford to buy any small diameter such as the " Easton Carbon Ones" so I am just shooting my Fatboys at 60 yards. I am having bad problems with wind drift but besides that, are their any other problems with shooting large arrows for long distance?


The arrows play a big role specially when shooting long distance outdoors due to wind drag in both widage and trajectory arc. The bigger the diameter the bigger the wind drag and thereby increases the trajectory arc. In windy situations, the bigger the arrow the more drift you will get. I'm sure most people will argue that they still shoot well considering what I have mentioned. But the question is, are they giving themselves a better chance of attaining better performance? As far asnot being able to afford small diameter arrows, you might want to re-think if that is really true. There are cheaper small diameter arrows out there and the fact itself that you have raised this question means, you have concerns with your current arrows. That itself is worth spending your buck and give you a peace of mind.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

UtahIdahoHunter said:


> +1 On the Vaps


how does this help someone who is NOT getting new arrows?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Well, maybe he should get some new arrows.


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## TheLongbowShoot (Mar 23, 2012)

jtc900502 said:


> The arrows play a big role specially when shooting long distance outdoors due to wind drag in both widage and trajectory arc. The bigger the diameter the bigger the wind drag and thereby increases the trajectory arc. In windy situations, the bigger the arrow the more drift you will get. I'm sure most people will argue that they still shoot well considering what I have mentioned. But the question is, are they giving themselves a better chance of attaining better performance? As far asnot being able to afford small diameter arrows, you might want to re-think if that is really true. There are cheaper small diameter arrows out there and the fact itself that you have raised this question means, you have concerns with your current arrows. That itself is worth spending your buck and give you a peace of mind.


Thanks you for your reply. Thanks everyone for your help. I am shooting a good enough setup that I have pieced together here and there. My arrows are just another thing that I will change soon enough dv. I have no trouble shooting indoor. I can drill 290's+ all day long. My best score is a 295 22x. I just have gotten tired of indoor. I want something that takes more skill. I am sure I can sell some stuff here and there to get some small diameter arrows. I just got offered some Carbon Ones for $90 the other day. So maybe I can get those.


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## TheLongbowShoot (Mar 23, 2012)

theminoritydude said:


> Well, maybe he should get some new arrows.


Ok please stop. You really are the MINORITY. They terrible side of people. Thank you for all your help


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

You're welcome


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

I have seen folks shoot fat arrows at fita distances heavy points and low profile vanes feathers don't work well with those shafts at long distance but most importantly log book wind meter learn to can't into the wind and how much for different wind conditions you will be amazed how well you can do. Money does not solve archery problems practice and meticulous attention to detail log everything


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

arrowyn said:


> Equip them with vanes (low profile ones). I notice feathers seem to die out around 50 meters and I have to go artillery (arc them in). I got 2314's for free and threw on 125 grain heads with vanes. They're not as accurate as I'd like but at 90 if I'm good form they'll hit the bale like Batman checking out Vicky Vale. Also they have skinny hunter arrows that cost cheaper than usual premium skinny arrows for future arrow purchases.


If you aren't heavy duty DW my experience was aluminums with feathers drop pretty fast in general -- aerodynamics in the wind aside. They might go further flatter with vanes -- worth trying -- but you are likely trading off some weight for flight.

The rings are also much bigger outdoors, there is less value to linecutter size. When you go outside you're more worried about how well an arrow flies for a while, what trajectory it has, etc. The ability to group far away. You can try to be consistent and still group somewhat arcing it in, but to me it's a less accurate way. Once I have to arc my score drops. If you can shoot a skinnier arrow flatter and group easier, you'd take that outside over occasionally losing a line cut.


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