# Draw length/ Form



## E_L33T Arch3r (Oct 6, 2012)

3 fletched arrows and a bare shaft at 20 yards. I’ve seen this asked for on other threads. Moved my sight on the second group.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

As always, tuning between draw length modules (string and cable twists) should always be guided by results. If you are happy with your 20 yd results, don't change a thing.
If you want to bust nocks at 20 yards, if you want to bust nocks at 30 yards, then, there are experiments to try, more things you can tweak, to boost the consistency (smaller group size on average, higher x-count). You can shoot one arrow in your quiver, and fire at a blank sheet of cardboard, with a sharpie bullseye. Your 20 yd groups are better than most, asking for "how's my form".
However, if you want further improvement, it IS possible to shoot one arrow diameter groups at 20 yards. Your 2nd group, in the white spot...only 2 arrows are touching, and looking at both groups, zero busted nocks. So, while good, there is room to improve, potential to boost x-count.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Not a fan of you dipping your head, to get string to touch nose. I would drop your anchor (nock move down lower on your face) by moving the peep up the bowstring. I am a big fan of keeping the neck bones vertical, head "level", to improve consistency. Head dipping down, is part of the reason for group #2, not having all 4 arrows touching and parallel.


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## E_L33T Arch3r (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you. I will begin moving my peep up to keep a level head. I am definitely looking to experiment between modules. Not every end is like the first picture and I would like to strive for consistency. When I dropped DL what I found was that all of a sudden my bareshaft (which previously tuned fine) has a significant nock left with a right impact. Unsure as to how shortening DL can affect horizontal impacts but it was happening. 

If I take equal twists out of each cable to reduce draw length is the assumption that the cams should still retain their previous timing in relation to one another? It did not seem that way. My vertical and horizontal both opened up significantly.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

E_L33T Arch3r said:


> Thank you. I will begin moving my peep up to keep a level head. I am definitely looking to experiment between modules. Not every end is like the first picture and I would like to strive for consistency. When I dropped DL what I found was that all of a sudden my bareshaft (which previously tuned fine) has a significant nock left with a right impact. Unsure as to how shortening DL can affect horizontal impacts but it was happening.
> 
> If I take equal twists out of each cable to reduce draw length is the assumption that the cams should still retain their previous timing in relation to one another? It did not seem that way. My vertical and horizontal both opened up significantly.


You assume that both cables have equal twist ratios. Assume nothing. If vertical opened up, pick ONE cable and reverse the adjustments. Work with ONLY one cable, and try adding half twists into that ONE cable, until the vertical pattern shrinks back down. ALWAYS results based tuning.

Then, pick one yoke leg on the top axle. Top axle have more influence on the arrow flight, because top axle is usually closer to the d-loop. So, pick ONE yoke leg and add or remove half twists, until the horizontal pattern closes back up. Then, if you need FINE tuning for horizontal miss pattern, goto the bottom axle, and pick ONE yoke leg. Work half twists on ONE yoke leg on the bottom axle, to close up the horizontal pattern.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

E_L33T Arch3r said:


> Thank you. I will begin moving my peep up to keep a level head. I am definitely looking to experiment between modules. Not every end is like the first picture and I would like to strive for consistency. When I dropped DL what I found was that all of a sudden my bareshaft (which previously tuned fine) has a significant nock left with a right impact. Unsure as to how shortening DL can affect horizontal impacts but it was happening.
> 
> If I take equal twists out of each cable to reduce draw length is the assumption that the cams should still retain their previous timing in relation to one another? It did not seem that way. My vertical and horizontal both opened up significantly.


Another option for tweaking between DL module sizes, is to thicken the grip. If you reduce brace height by 1/16th inch, from just some grip tape, the draw length also reduced 1/16th inch. See if group size changes for the better, by thickening the grip.


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## E_L33T Arch3r (Oct 6, 2012)

nuts&bolts said:


> E_L33T Arch3r said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you. I will begin moving my peep up to keep a level head. I am definitely looking to experiment between modules. Not every end is like the first picture and I would like to strive for consistency. When I dropped DL what I found was that all of a sudden my bareshaft (which previously tuned fine) has a significant nock left with a right impact. Unsure as to how shortening DL can affect horizontal impacts but it was happening.
> ...


I have a prime logic ct5 with parallel cams so I can either move rest or tune w flexis. At 30” I was originally only 1 turn out on flexis. When I went to 29.75 there were no amount of flexis turns that would take out the nock left. Went back to 30 and it then required a full 3 turns out. I’m absolutely stumped as to what the reason for needing additional flexis turns for straight bare shaft flight at the same DL. I was within 2 twists of the string from the original setting (that’s the one thing I didn’t write down to return to the exact setting). Can string twists affect horizontal impacts that much when the cables were returned to the original setting?

Also thanks for all of the advice. I’ve been following not only what you’ve told me but others as well and it’s helped my tuning and shooting immensely. That’s why you see that duct tape line on the target!


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## E_L33T Arch3r (Oct 6, 2012)

I also have a nock left condition about 75% of the time even though bareshaft impacts in the same group as fletched. It’s straight the other 25% of the time. I’ve experimented with different grips. It seems a high wrist eliminates some nock left when a standard grip as pictured causes a slight nock lefts could to be another issue with my form?


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