# ASA Speed Limit???



## targetmaster31 (Sep 3, 2005)

If you can judge yardage then speed wont play that big a role, speed is just a crutch for folks to cry on who cant judge yardage. Folks will say different or it evens the playing field but what ever... You want to even the playing field take the hunter class and make some folks move out of it, the sandbagging in it is so pathetic. Make them follow the rules on equipment, see so many that dont. Just my opinion does not make it right or wrong.


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## maufenkamp (Dec 21, 2011)

targetmaster31 said:


> If you can judge yardage then speed wont play that big a role, speed is just a crutch for folks to cry on who cant judge yardage. Folks will say different or it evens the playing field but what ever... You want to even the playing field take the hunter class and make some folks move out of it, the sandbagging in it is so pathetic. Make them follow the rules on equipment, see so many that dont. Just my opinion does not make it right or wrong.


I've never shot competitively so I really couldn't say for sure but, from what I gather, there's nothing "Hunter" about the "Hunter Class". I hear people talking all the time about getting their bows set up for 3D shooting at the conclusion of hunting season, which entails changing every accessory on it. When you ask them what class they compete in, they respond: the Hunter Class. Either that or they have an entirely separate rig for 3D that in no way reflects the rig they actually hunt with. Of course, my personal favorite are the ones who compete in the Hunter Class that have never actually shot an animal with a bow. If the Hunter Class consisted of guys shooting arrows with dried blood on the fletching through scuffed up bows that have been drug up a tree a time or two, I'd be all over it. As it is, i get kind of a creepy "golf vibe" from it.

But, like I said, I've never shot competitively.


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## azsd1 (Jul 21, 2004)

btt


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

azsd1 said:


> Has anyone heard of any recent rumors of ASA bumping up there 280 speed limit to 300fps for 2013??


No. You trying to start one?


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

The ASA and IBo are TARGET ARCHERY ORGANIZATIONS!! The word hunter needs taken out of the classification of classes!! They should be referred to as PIN CLASSES....As for the speed I would say it is a rumor and that is it!! Now what I would like to see is the ASA and IBO come together and agree on a speed limit to unify 3D archery which it needs to grow locally and nationally..


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## nitroteam (Jun 27, 2010)

maufenkamp said:


> I've never shot competitively so I really couldn't say for sure but, from what I gather, there's nothing "Hunter" about the "Hunter Class". I hear people talking all the time about getting their bows set up for 3D shooting at the conclusion of hunting season, which entails changing every accessory on it. When you ask them what class they compete in, they respond: the Hunter Class. Either that or they have an entirely separate rig for 3D that in no way reflects the rig they actually hunt with. Of course, my personal favorite are the ones who compete in the Hunter Class that have never actually shot an animal with a bow. If the Hunter Class consisted of guys shooting arrows with dried blood on the fletching through scuffed up bows that have been drug up a tree a time or two, I'd be all over it. As it is, i get kind of a creepy "golf vibe" from it.
> 
> But, like I said, I've never shot competitively.


I use the same exact bow for hunting as I do for hunter class ,mbr and k45 and killed with it. 
The only thing that has changed since I got the bow is I dumped the rip cord and went with a trophy taker fc.


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## Thornearcher (Sep 8, 2007)

Im ok with the "Hunter" Class as it does reflect most hunting distance type of shots. I dont know that I would call it a Pin Class as I shot ASA Open B with Fixed pins and faired pretty well when most everyone else were using adjustable sights. I was told this would be a disadvantage when the exact opposite is true. As for the equipment being used? About the only limitation in the Hunter class is the length of stabilizer which has to be under 12" total length and fixed pins. All other classes you can pretty much put on your bow what ever you wish. 

This brings me back when others were complaining about driving 3 hours every week to attend an ASA shoot. when we did get one closer to us, everybody that previously lived closer complained that the course was too hard and that it was to far to drive to attend. It all depends on your level of dedication to the sport and how much you are willing to sacrifice. 

With in our sport, there will always be those that have to complain about something because of a low score or what class they have to shoot in. To each their own. If complaining makes you happy then talk to someone who will listen. The rest of us please dont ruin our fun. Our get away time to enjoy ourselves. 

As for the speed rating? Leave it at 280 that just my opinion. Its a game of skill and of persistence. Plain and simple. Nobody cares if your shooting a 600 grain arrow to get down to 280 or shooting a 325 grain arrow to achieve it. Use the set up that works best for you and use your skill to to achieve your target.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

How did a thread about speed limit become a lecture on class philosophy from guys who don't compete?

No, I've heard no rumors of 300 fps. Why would they change it? 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

NO SUCH RUMOUR.....ASA RULE 1. Has and Will be the. 280FPS


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

cenochs said:


> The ASA and IBo are TARGET ARCHERY ORGANIZATIONS!! The word hunter needs taken out of the classification of classes!! They should be referred to as PIN CLASSES....As for the speed I would say it is a rumor and that is it!! Now what I would like to see is the ASA and IBO come together and agree on a speed limit to unify 3D archery which it needs to grow locally and nationally..


Your phylosphy is off....you are forgetting.....BHFS----NFAA...bowhunter freestyle


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> Your phylosphy is off....you are forgetting.....BHFS----NFAA...bowhunter freestyle


I said nothing about NFAA if you would read my post... Why is changing the name of a class a wrong philosophy!


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Anything possible but I doubt the speed limit changes. Just like the 12 ring, the speed limit is an Asa staple.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Man, just think of all those bumper stickers they would have to replace.....280+12=3D


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

maufenkamp said:


> I've never shot competitively so I really couldn't say for sure but, from what I gather, there's nothing "Hunter" about the "Hunter Class". I hear people talking all the time about getting their bows set up for 3D shooting at the conclusion of hunting season, which entails changing every accessory on it. When you ask them what class they compete in, they respond: the Hunter Class. Either that or they have an entirely separate rig for 3D that in no way reflects the rig they actually hunt with. Of course, my personal favorite are the ones who compete in the Hunter Class that have never actually shot an animal with a bow. If the Hunter Class consisted of guys shooting arrows with dried blood on the fletching through scuffed up bows that have been drug up a tree a time or two, I'd be all over it. As it is, i get kind of a creepy "golf vibe" from it.
> 
> But, like I said, I've never shot competitively.


Did you know that 3D was started for the bowhunter so that he/she could shoot there bow yr round, nothing wrong with the hunter class, dont knock it til you try it


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## eyeswideopen (May 10, 2011)

I finish better in BowHunter class than I do Bow Novice or Open C...and this is the first year I have shot 3D. It's somewhat baffling to hear guys talking about the bows they shot 8-10 years ago when shooting at this state shoot or that state qualifier. Watching them shoot up when I struggle to stay less than 15-20 down is somewhat frustrating, when I truly am a "novice".


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Pretty sure ASA does move people out of the hunter class.


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## travis gross (Feb 19, 2006)

i dont think its gonna change


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## deerhunterrick (Mar 11, 2011)

LMAO..................... Some of you guys are just too funny. Should be standup comics. But then again, who'd listen to you anyway?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

lain:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

maufenkamp said:


> I've never shot competitively so I really couldn't say for sure but, from what I gather, there's nothing "Hunter" about the "Hunter Class". I hear people talking all the time about getting their bows set up for 3D shooting at the conclusion of hunting season, which entails changing every accessory on it. When you ask them what class they compete in, they respond: the Hunter Class. Either that or they have an entirely separate rig for 3D that in no way reflects the rig they actually hunt with. Of course, my personal favorite are the ones who compete in the Hunter Class that have never actually shot an animal with a bow. If the Hunter Class consisted of guys shooting arrows with dried blood on the fletching through scuffed up bows that have been drug up a tree a time or two, I'd be all over it. As it is, i get kind of a creepy "golf vibe" from it.
> 
> But, like I said, I've never shot competitively.


It Shows! Hunter class is just a class with restrictions. Im assuming you think there a different in camo and colored bow as well.

Many of us tournament guys would shoot against you any day with are hunting bows. So if a guy shot in hunter and never hunted your saying he couldnt hit a deer?

Amazing. Imigine this I could take my tournament bow and kill a deer with it. Think about it.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

azsd1 said:


> Has anyone heard of any recent rumors of ASA bumping up there 280 speed limit to 300fps for 2013??


I believe this is a flase rumor. Maybe they could have an outlaw class but that I would even doubt. They got the best game in 3d. Why change.
DB


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## jkoenig1980 (Aug 15, 2006)

cenochs said:


> The ASA and IBo are TARGET ARCHERY ORGANIZATIONS!! The word hunter needs taken out of the classification of classes!! They should be referred to as PIN CLASSES....As for the speed I would say it is a rumor and that is it!! Now what I would like to see is the ASA and IBO come together and agree on a speed limit to unify 3D archery which it needs to grow locally and nationally..


So a shoot that involves shooting animal shaped targets in the woods doesn't deserve a hunter class?


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> No. You trying to start one?


:wink:


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

jkoenig1980 said:


> So a shoot that involves shooting animal shaped targets in the woods doesn't deserve a hunter class?
> 
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


They are just targets with scoring rings...The scoring rings do not represent correct kill shots and who shoots a animal where the 14 ring is located? All the targets are is a background for the scoring rings...everything evolves and this sport has evolved to a target sport for target archers....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

jkoenig1980 said:


> So a shoot that involves shooting animal shaped targets in the woods doesn't deserve a hunter class?
> 
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


Lets here what you would make the restrictions for a hunter class? You do realize these ASA, IBO and NFAA have been doing this for many years. Maybe they should have to wear camo? Shoot broadheads! Some of you are the one bringing this subject up. Just tells us how you would set a hunter class. Ill be looking forward to your opionion
DB


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## deerhunterrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Again..LMAO..... I have won too many state,sectional,regional,ASA & IBO shoots and titles to count anymore. I have shot somewhere around 300 deer with the bow. Does that make me a "Hunter" or a "Target Shooter" ? What you guys are doing is beating a dead horse. Like eliminating the release and crossbow. Both have been around for over 5,000 years. What difference does it make what you shoot as long as you shoot. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? If you shoot competitively or not? Hunter class just limits what is used on your equipment. #1 fixed pins, this does not mean you can not shoot in a less restricted class. #2 no magnified lenses, #3 sights and stabilizer under 12" and no V-bars(Big deal) #4 screw in tips (hence hunter class) again no big deal. Why whine about what you shoot and how much better the other guy shoots. I am right there with DB. I have 4 bows , 1 target colored and 3 in camo. I can shoot right along side anybody without feeling pressured in any way. I hold my own. Some of you guys seem to think because the equipment is different that it is easier."NOT" the hunter class was developed to let guys shoot a less technical and expensive side of the sport. I can promise you this. If you can't put the arrow where you aim it on a target,you can't put the arrow where you aim it on an animal. If you tell me otherwise,not only are you lying to me,but to yourself as well. Anybody can fling an arrow and hit a target or animal in a non lethal area. It takes skill to put it where it belongs. As far as the kills on 3D targets not being where they are supposed to be. I guess when you can't put them where they are suppsoed to be it doesn't make a difference now does it? Look forward to seeing any rebutal on Targets Archers not being Hunters or anybody good enough to prove me wrong on not being able to put the arrow where it belongs be it target or animal. We don't shoot Pie Plate size targets now-a-days


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

I have been shooting hunter rounds then 2Ds then 3ds for 30 years.I have bow hunted since 1975.If you are not shooting at live animals then its target archery. If you want a true hunter round for you mid west and eastern deer hunters you need to have a 30 to 40 target tree stand shoot LOL.3D is target archery so all you camoed up target shooters can relax and have fun it isnt hunting LOL.As for the speed limit I think 280 is OK as long as it is enforced.Out west most of the shoots are unlimited as speed goes the same good shooter win most of the shoots weather they are shooting 280 or over 300.We dont have any ASA shoots and just a few IBO shoots.But a lot of club shoots.


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## jkoenig1980 (Aug 15, 2006)

Daniel Boone said:


> Lets here what you would make the restrictions for a hunter class? You do realize these ASA, IBO and NFAA have been doing this for many years. Maybe they should have to wear camo? Shoot broadheads! Some of you are the one bringing this subject up. Just tells us how you would set a hunter class. Ill be looking forward to your opionion
> DB


What I use for 3D is exactly what I hunt with without broadhead. But since you asked in hunter class I would lose the 14 ring and the 12 ring. Use the center 12 used only as a tie breaker that only scores 10. There would be no cleared lane between the stake and the target. All arrows would be hunter weight 6gpp ish. No speed limits. Maybe a sound rating too. Oh and only known distance to land marks. Like trees with yellow paint are 20 yards...ect.

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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Don't ya just have to love AT? A man starts a thread and asks a particular question. In true AT fashion there have been 29 posts, 30 including mine, and only three people have posted an answer to the original question.


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## Thornearcher (Sep 8, 2007)

Imagine this. I used my Pro 38 Tournament bow 2 seasons ago during turkey season. Bows dont make the difference. its the shooter. 280 is a great staple for the ASA and will most likely always be in place.


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## Bowhunterark (Aug 23, 2011)

To the op.........that is prolly a rumor almost positive of this. and the guys complaining about the hunter class........i mean come on man!!! does it really matter that much bout some guy shooting your so called "non hunting " accessories. i shoot bhr locally and moving up to the hunting class in asa. i use the exact same sights rest and so on that i hunt with. only difference is my tournament bow is white and i use GT x cutters. stop whinning and shoot your bow.


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## ShortHanded (May 14, 2006)

bfisher said:


> Don't ya just have to love AT? A man starts a thread and asks a particular question. In true AT fashion there have been 29 posts, 30 including mine, and only three people have posted an answer to the original question.



+1 soooo tru, lmfao


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Yes, It isn't "hunter" class, really. I think there are very few in 3-D period that could take that bow, and setup, take out their target points, screw in a broadhead and then go out afield hunting without changing a LOT of things about the set up.

Go back to 125 grain points MINIMUM and that alone would change things immensely. 

Hunter class is nothing more than glorified TARGET shooting rigs and no longer has much ado about "hunting" anymore.
The game of 3-D is a TARGET game and has been for a good many years, regardless of "shooting class".
That being said, the 3-D GAME is indeed a different venue onto its own...and those that think it is ALL about "guessing yardage" are duped! It really is ALL about SHOT EXECUTION..if you can't execute a proper shot, then knowing the yardage within a millimeter won't help you one iota. The best of the best EXECUTE THE SHOT time and time and time again....and that doesn't come from "judging yardage" all the time...it comes from SHOOTING WITH PROPER FORM and KNOWING your shot is going to go where you point it....if you don't believe this, then again...you are Duped.
I think most 3-Ders would be better "aided" by working on their FORM more and their "guesstimation" less. It has oft been said that the best of the best spend 80% of their time on FORM and shooting at spots than they do on their "yardage estimation"...and the best of the best rarely "Guess"....they KNOW...You don't plop down $250-$300 for registration to go out and "GUESS"... those top dogs are PREPARED.

I would be very surprised, however, if ASA raises the speed limit to 300 fps...they could, and maybe they should, but WHAT FOR? the cream of the crop would still be the cream of the crop... Why ruin a good thing?
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

field14 said a lot of good stuff right there. I agree with it. I will just add this to the mix:

I don't know how it is in the rest of the country, but in Tennessee, there seems to be a huge migration of folks from the other classes, Open classes in particular, with folks going to the K45 or K50 classes in ASA. Even the local shoots have started having the K45 class...and it by far, is the most popular among shooters locally. 

The point I'm getting at is the same as what field14 said...too many people want to put the spotlight of archery on yardage guessing and saying that speed plays too big of an advantage to longer draw archers vs short draw archers. Well by looking at the scores of the known yardage classes, in which some very good shooters have went to now...it don't seem to be playing as big of a role as people want to believe that it does. Since the yardage variable is out and everybody knows what the yardage is for each target...then there should be no excuses for shooting one high or low and such....can't say that you didn't know what sight adjustment to make or which pin to use. Last weekend was the ASA Tn Championship. I am just going by memory here but I think the person that won the K45 class, only had 15 or 16 twelves....out of 30 targets of known distance. You may know the exact yardages...but that still goes to show, you have to be able to use good form, execute the shots, and hit what you are aiming at.

I WOULD like to see a speed limit update, IF NOTHING ELSE, at least in all the known yardage classes since the yardage thing isn't a factor there. For the simple reason of making it more friendly to modern technology. A few years ago, we were doing whatever possible to get a bow UP to speed to shoot 280. Now that bow technology is producing 7" brace height bows that are shooting 330+...it's hard to slow a bow down to 280. It took a lot of experimenting for me to find an arrow that would FLY good, and be ASA legal in speed and I'm just a 28" draw length. I had to buy arrows with a spine way stiffer than what I would normally get to hunt with...and put about 150 grains in the front end of it to make them shoot under the speed limit, and still be able to group good out of my bow. In a hunting setup, with my most recent bow, a PSE Evo 6, I could use a 340 spine arrow and 100 grain tip and get beautiful deadly accuracy with it....but speed wise, I was like 318 fps with a 386 grain arrow. That would be my hunting setup...yet I can't use it in the class I shoot in ASA because it's too fast.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

cenochs said:


> The ASA and IBo are TARGET ARCHERY ORGANIZATIONS!! The word hunter needs taken out of the classification of classes!! They should be referred to as PIN CLASSES....As for the speed I would say it is a rumor and that is it!! Now what I would like to see is the ASA and IBO come together and agree on a speed limit to unify 3D archery which it needs to grow locally and nationally..


This would be good for both for sure.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

maufenkamp said:


> I've never shot competitively so I really couldn't say for sure but, from what I gather, there's nothing "Hunter" about the "Hunter Class". I hear people talking all the time about getting their bows set up for 3D shooting at the conclusion of hunting season, which entails changing every accessory on it. When you ask them what class they compete in, they respond: the Hunter Class. Either that or they have an entirely separate rig for 3D that in no way reflects the rig they actually hunt with. Of course, my personal favorite are the ones who compete in the Hunter Class that have never actually shot an animal with a bow. If the Hunter Class consisted of guys shooting arrows with dried blood on the fletching through scuffed up bows that have been drug up a tree a time or two, I'd be all over it. As it is, i get kind of a creepy "golf vibe" from it.
> 
> But, like I said, I've never shot competitively.


These guys in hunter class would shoot circles around you in the stand and on the range. Dont knock something unless you done it.
You think these guys cant hit a deer in the field your dead wrong.
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

maufenkamp said:


> I've never shot competitively so I really couldn't say for sure but, from what I gather, there's nothing "Hunter" about the "Hunter Class". I hear people talking all the time about getting their bows set up for 3D shooting at the conclusion of hunting season, which entails changing every accessory on it. When you ask them what class they compete in, they respond: the Hunter Class. Either that or they have an entirely separate rig for 3D that in no way reflects the rig they actually hunt with. Of course, my personal favorite are the ones who compete in the Hunter Class that have never actually shot an animal with a bow. If the Hunter Class consisted of guys shooting arrows with dried blood on the fletching through scuffed up bows that have been drug up a tree a time or two, I'd be all over it. As it is, i get kind of a creepy "golf vibe" from it.
> 
> But, like I said, I've never shot competitively.


Why would you shoot vanes with dried blood....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

garceau said:


> why would you shoot vanes with dried blood....
> 
> 
> Sent from my motorola electrify using tapatalk 2



Good Question


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## BlakeB (Dec 2, 2009)

bfisher said:


> Don't ya just have to love AT? A man starts a thread and asks a particular question. In true AT fashion there have been 29 posts, 30 including mine, and only three people have posted an answer to the original question.


Can't fix stupid


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

jkoenig1980 said:


> What I use for 3D is exactly what I hunt with without broadhead. But since you asked in hunter class I would lose the 14 ring and the 12 ring. Use the center 12 used only as a tie breaker that only scores 10. There would be no cleared lane between the stake and the target. All arrows would be hunter weight 6gpp ish. No speed limits. Maybe a sound rating too. Oh and only known distance to land marks. Like trees with yellow paint are 20 yards...ect.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


Try the Deermans assc. Sounds like just what you want.
DB


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Daniel Boone said:


> Lets here what you would make the restrictions for a hunter class? You do realize these ASA, IBO and NFAA have been doing this for many years. Maybe they should have to wear camo? Shoot broadheads! Some of you are the one bringing this subject up. Just tells us how you would set a hunter class. Ill be looking forward to your opionion
> DB


well they ought to have to wear some Tink's stinky doe pee too.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

carlosii said:


> well they ought to have to wear some Tink's stinky doe pee too.


Get that real hunter feeling. Shoot from treestands as well.
DB


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## DDS (Dec 10, 2009)

I have shot 3d all summer. First year really getting into it. It is good practice for hunting, I don't care what anybody says. Practice is practice. My only problem is that with the speed rule I have to turn my bow down. It is kind of like having a Dodge Viper with a governor on it. If the cream of the crop is going to rise to the top anyway why should it matter if the you are shooting 330 fps or 280 fps. As was said earlier it is about form and shot execution. I just wish I could take the bow that I have set up for hunting screw in some field points and go. It looks like sooner or later they would have to raise the limits if they want the average joe hunter to participate in the events. Not everyone wants to have modify there hunting rig just for a tournament, and not everyone can afford two bows. Just my take on it.


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## oneshot (Nov 29, 2002)

Just Add A Outlaw Class?? So People Can Shoot The ASA Tour. Not have a speed limit?? ASA would have more a shooters?


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## DDS (Dec 10, 2009)

oneshot said:


> Just Add A Outlaw Class?? So People Can Shoot The ASA Tour. Not have a speed limit?? ASA would have more a shooters?


Sounds good to me, I've always been considered a little bit of an outlaw anyway, ha ha


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

oneshot said:


> Just Add A Outlaw Class?? So People Can Shoot The ASA Tour. Not have a speed limit?? ASA would have more a shooters?


Yeah, I know, ran into the ground is people can slow down their bows and Rules are rules. All say this, the speed bow has allowed more shooters to shoot/compete. And this is the real fact, more people can turn down their bow to get to 280 fps than there are people who can "turn up" their bow to reach the ASA 280 fps rule. We can't take the stand of; people can buy faster bows to compete with. And we don't think of the real short draw people. Want something to do? Research all the competition type bows that have draw lengths from 26"down to 23" and give the number of..... I could have sold my Martin Shadowcat a hundred times except for the 28" draw length. 

I look for a speed bow class to come into being and hope the speed stays in the class. Aged some I've turned down my target bows and use lighter arrows. I can reach 280 fps without ripping myself apart.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

To be honest at least at the pro-ams

I dont know if they could handle many more archers. Not at all the venues or in its current set up

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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Two good reasons and both are money. First, I doubt the targets could make it through an entire day at one of the big pro ams with people shooting 330+ into them so they'd either have to setup more courses to spread the abuse or they'd have to replace inserts between the morning and afternoon lines (neither would be cheap). Second, by making it harder for people to shoot their current hunting setups, they sell more target bows and large,heavy arrows. These guys also buy expensive target sights and target stabs to go with their bows (ever wonder why the ASA needs 3 amateur Open classes when most open classes at club shoots don't get 1/3 of the numbers of the fixed pin classes?). This way the ASA is pushing a lot of business to their sponsors. Absolutely nothing wrong with either of these things.


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## DDS (Dec 10, 2009)

Supermag1 said:


> Two good reasons and both are money. First, I doubt the targets could make it through an entire day at one of the big pro ams with people shooting 330+ into them so they'd either have to setup more courses to spread the abuse or they'd have to replace inserts between the morning and afternoon lines (neither would be cheap). Second, by making it harder for people to shoot their current hunting setups, they sell more target bows and large,heavy arrows. These guys also buy expensive target sights and target stabs to go with their bows (ever wonder why the ASA needs 3 amateur Open classes when most open classes at club shoots don't get 1/3 of the numbers of the fixed pin classes?). This way the ASA is pushing a lot of business to their sponsors. Absolutely nothing wrong with either of these things.


Speed does not damage targets, large diameter arrows do. Would you rather people shoot needles at your target or telephone poles.


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## knox_nate (Dec 27, 2009)

Crow Terminator said:


> field14 said a lot of good stuff right there. I agree with it. I will just add this to the mix:
> 
> I don't know how it is in the rest of the country, but in Tennessee, there seems to be a huge migration of folks from the other classes, Open classes in particular, with folks going to the K45 or K50 classes in ASA. Even the local shoots have started having the K45 class...and it by far, is the most popular among shooters locally.
> 
> ...



You bring up a good point. I will take myself for instance. I started shooting and bought my first bow last year. I didn't start shooting ASA till this year. I am 33 years old and have never had a need to try to judge yardage. I just started hunting when I got my bow and used a range finder all last season. This year I started shooting ASA and shoot novice. All yardage are known and only out to 30 yards. I will not shoot novice next year and my options are moving up to Open C or K45. Open C should be my next move up I think, but I go from all known out to 30 to unknown out to 40 (one day known one day unknown). Or go into a class in K45 where it's all known. The progression to K45 I think would be easier, because then I wouldn't have to learn to judge, but my plan is to go to Open C and try to learn to judge before the first tournament next year. 

Going from all know 30max to unknown out to 40 is a big jump. There are a lot of new people coming into archery and they don't have a clue on judging either. I think this is why the known classes are so popular. The easy way from novice up is to go K45, but K45 is in no way a easy class. The average winning score in K45 was 45 up this year and the average winning score in Open C was 22 up.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

DDS said:


> Speed does not damage targets, large diameter arrows do. Would you rather people shoot needles at your target or telephone poles.


Have you seen just how deep the Nanos drive into a 3D target? I have. They punch through to the other side. I'm sort of with you for hunter classes and believe a arrow diameter restriction should be put in place, 23 or 24/64" max. I back this up with, just how many hunters do you see shooting 26 and 27/64" diameter arrows?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Garceau said:


> To be honest at least at the pro-ams
> 
> I dont know if they could handle many more archers. Not at all the venues or in its current set up
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Yes having six archers on a stake is two to many. JMO
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Screw in points really are hard on targets as well.

Not necessary the points but the inserts

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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

knox_nate said:


> You bring up a good point. I will take myself for instance. I started shooting and bought my first bow last year. I didn't start shooting ASA till this year. I am 33 years old and have never had a need to try to judge yardage. I just started hunting when I got my bow and used a range finder all last season. This year I started shooting ASA and shoot novice. All yardage are known and only out to 30 yards. I will not shoot novice next year and my options are moving up to Open C or K45. Open C should be my next move up I think, but I go from all known out to 30 to unknown out to 40 (one day known one day unknown). Or go into a class in K45 where it's all known. The progression to K45 I think would be easier, because then I wouldn't have to learn to judge, but my plan is to go to Open C and try to learn to judge before the first tournament next year.
> 
> Going from all know 30max to unknown out to 40 is a big jump. There are a lot of new people coming into archery and they don't have a clue on judging either. I think this is why the known classes are so popular. The easy way from novice up is to go K45, but K45 is in no way a easy class. The average winning score in K45 was 45 up this year and the average winning score in Open C was 22 up.


What about Mens Unlimited.


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## knox_nate (Dec 27, 2009)

To be honest I haven't even looked at men's unlimited an really don't know much about it.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

knox_nate said:


> You bring up a good point. I will take myself for instance. I started shooting and bought my first bow last year. I didn't start shooting ASA till this year. I am 33 years old and have never had a need to try to judge yardage. I just started hunting when I got my bow and used a range finder all last season. This year I started shooting ASA and shoot novice. All yardage are known and only out to 30 yards. I will not shoot novice next year and my options are moving up to Open C or K45. Open C should be my next move up I think, but I go from all known out to 30 to unknown out to 40 (one day known one day unknown). Or go into a class in K45 where it's all known. The progression to K45 I think would be easier, because then I wouldn't have to learn to judge, but my plan is to go to Open C and try to learn to judge before the first tournament next year.
> 
> Going from all know 30max to unknown out to 40 is a big jump. There are a lot of new people coming into archery and they don't have a clue on judging either. I think this is why the known classes are so popular. The easy way from novice up is to go K45, but K45 is in no way a easy class. The average winning score in K45 was 45 up this year and the average winning score in Open C was 22 up.


Open C will probably feel better. K45 the avg is usually stretched pretty good.

Open C is a good group of guys

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## Old Man Archer (Mar 31, 2009)

cenochs said:


> The ASA and IBo are TARGET ARCHERY ORGANIZATIONS!! The word hunter needs taken out of the classification of classes!! They should be referred to as PIN CLASSES....As for the speed I would say it is a rumor and that is it!! Now what I would like to see is the ASA and IBO come together and agree on a speed limit to unify 3D archery which it needs to grow locally and nationally..


 Just to clarify , Yes the ASA is just a target archery organization but the IBO is not it also lobbies in Washington and in your home states for your bowhunting rights and laws. There really is a big difference in the two and besides the IBO isn't just an organization based in the US it is an International organization that helps bowhunters around the world Hence the name International Bowhunting Organization and also on that note the NFAA also lobbies for bowhunters and both organizations have awards and give recognition for animals harvested. As far as the IBO and ASA coming together on a speed limit I give you a resounding NO! The NFAA has upped their speed limit to 300fps because of the improvements on todays bows and in all reality the 280fps rule is antiquated and if the truth be known many of the bows that shoot in excess of 300fps are difficult for many to shoot due to the 5''or 6'' brace height. They are managable but requires a sufficient amount of practice and work on form to master. If you want to grow 
3D archery eliminate the Rangefinders , stools , umbrellas , carts and limit each goup to 8 minutes on stake. Why after the 1st shooter has shot does each following shooter need the same amount of time he or she has been standing there looking at the target they should be ready when they step to the stake , they have already had more time than the first archer to judge, set their sight or whatever staring the target down does not put the arrow in it drawing and shooting does. OK I'm going off on a tangent so I'll shut up but there is a difference.


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## hatchettjack (Jan 16, 2012)

cenochs said:


> The ASA and IBo are TARGET ARCHERY ORGANIZATIONS!! The word hunter needs taken out of the classification of classes!! They should be referred to as PIN CLASSES....As for the speed I would say it is a rumor and that is it!! Now what I would like to see is the ASA and IBO come together and agree on a speed limit to unify 3D archery which it needs to grow locally and nationally..


Good to know! I guess i can stop supporting both since im a hunter!

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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Old Man Archer said:


> If you want to grow
> 3D archery eliminate the Rangefinders , stools , umbrellas , carts and limit each goup to 8 minutes on stake. Why after the 1st shooter has shot does each following shooter need the same amount of time he or she has been standing there looking at the target they should be ready when they step to the stake , they have already had more time than the first archer to judge, set their sight or whatever staring the target down does not put the arrow in it drawing and shooting does. OK I'm going off on a tangent so I'll shut up but there is a difference.


So if im up at the stake shooting you expect to be standing right next to me judging yds and fidgeting around?

Generally not the etiquette we use around here.

Why is it those that generally dont shoot 3D on a regular basis the ones that want to change it the most



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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

A few years ago, I was told by an ibo official that the ibo was not a target orginiztion. No joke.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

perhaps ibo range officials should accompany hunter class participants when they hunt in the fall to make sure they are using the same equipment? Maybe its not fair in the NFL, they should have a weight limit? As long as people follow the rulesm OK with it. I shoot with a guy in NY that shoots 344 fps. I shoot just under 300. Sometimes he gets me sometimes I get him. No problem IMHO. I am currently too poor to have two bows So my bow is paper/3D/hunting. For hunting I go with a slightly heavier shaft and a 100gr vs my 3d of 85 gr.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Garceau said:


> *Screw in points really are hard on targets as well*.
> 
> *Not necessary the points but the inserts*


More BS. Proper insert and matching point will blend with the arrow shaft - smooth as a baby's butt.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Lets get this.....the speed IS NOT going to change..... I also know a few that shoot the. K45 n K50 dont shoot anything close to 280. And i can bet the would beat any of those that want to shoot that speed game....


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> More BS. Proper insert and matching point will blend with the arrow shaft - smooth as a baby's butt.


Have you ever seen points/inserts that dont blend smoothly.

Seems to be the norm around these parts

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## Old Man Archer (Mar 31, 2009)

Garceau said:


> So if im up at the stake shooting you expect to be standing right next to me judging yds and fidgeting around?
> 
> Generally not the etiquette we use around here.
> 
> ...


 I can stand 2 yards behind you be completely out of your sight range and still judge the yardage and I don't need to rangefind from myself to the stake to know I'm 2 yards from it or you. As for the comment about not shooting regularly well , I've been shooting it since it was 2D and clubs made their own targets. There has been so much BS added to the game that it creates more and more problems for the new comers to the sport. They believe they have to have a rangefinder instead of learning to judge distance by trial and error. I watch on our course of which I'm a director the new breed of 3D shooters that shoot mainly ASA that look like they getting ready to go camping or spend a day at the beach with all the paraphenalia they carry in. They ignore the NO RANGEFINDERS sign and say you can't be serious when you bring their attention to it , at this time they like to say well I shoot in the ASA and in my class we can use them on half the course at which time they are told we don't allow them. I have watched as 4-5 of these shooters break out their stools and sit down at each target instead of proceeding to get to the stake and shoot in a timely matter causing a bottleneck. 

Don't get me wrong I love the sport of archery I've been shootin it for 43+ years in virtually all forms with Longbows to Compounds but have noticed that through all the improvements with equipment that it is the archer and not the equipment that makes the difference. I'm also not just picking on the ASA or the archers in ASA of which I have friends who shoot in the ASA and I myself have participated in it also. I have nothing against anything except for all the extra added BS that keeps being added to what was a very pure sport. 

And by the way making assumptions about others you don't know is even worse etiquette than if you stood right beside me on the stake and to tell you the truth you probably wouldn't bother me cause I could probably ignore you fairly easy.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Garceau said:


> Have you ever seen points/inserts that dont blend smoothly.
> Seems to be the norm around these parts


This is more people problem and than matching inserts to the shaft and points to the insert. I've yo-yos with field points in carbon arrows that should fit 25/12s and this is just plain stupid, a brainless archer on the loose.


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## RackAttak (Mar 7, 2012)

I just shoot to shoot. Sometimes I use my single pin and don't adjust it. Just aim high or low. In it for the fun of it.


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