# New Victory "VAP" arrows - Need help if you please...



## FirstFreedom (Dec 3, 2006)

Just bought a dozen Victory VAP .300s, as they were on sale, just on a whim (because of the sale and they look interesting).

First Victory arrows ever, and only 3rd time ever buying a brand besides Easton. So I know nothing about these, other than they're 8.9 gpi, extremely thin @ .239 OD, and are alleged to buck the wind well and penetrate well.

So I have a few questions, if anyone knows and cares to answer.


1. Best place on web to buy the "out-serts"? Best price? I was shocked to find out they don't come with inserts but you need these expensive "out-serts" or broadhead adapters. And why are they called broadhead adapters - I mean, I CAN also shoot field tips with them, right? (Well, what I mean is, the fact that the price does not include these and the price of them is what shocked me; not that they are needed due to the tiny I.D.)

2. I don't understand the 3 different outserts - why is the "5/16ths" outsert longer than the others, and does this extra length offer any advantage over the 2 shorter ones in strength/durability?

3. What does the 5/16th and 9/32nds" refer to? That's certainly not their length, so I'm assuming there's two different standards for broadhead/fieldpoint threading width, perhaps? I thought there was only one - which one is the "standard standard" - the one that accepts all standard BHs and field tips? Which one do I want? I understand the steel is heavier for FOC, but which of the two sizes?

4. Which aluminum arrows have an inside diameter that "just fits over" the .239 OD of these, so that I can make some sleeves/footing?

5. I got these as hunting arrows for me, and their under the "hunting" tab on the Victory website, but then they talk about target shooting and competitions - so are they primarily for hunting, or primarily designed for target shooting, or both/just whatever? Are these good for hunting or too fragile? I assume they are, or else the "more penetration" touted advantage would be nonsensical.

6. Are these elites I got (from the .001 variance pile) worth the extra $ over the .006 and 003s? I paid right at $120 for a dozen without the outserts - is this good, bad, or middle of the road price for the elites?

7. Which of these two arrows is better for hunting/stronger/more durable: These *VAP .300s *@ 8.9 gpi or the *GT Velocity .300s* @ 8.5 gpi? Are these two the two lightest .300 deflection arrows on the market [save for the High Countrys and the Victory VForce HV - both of which are TOO light and fragile for what I'm trying to do], or did I miss some? And I don't mean counting the fat GT UL22s - too fat for what I want (outstanding penetration). Did I make a mistake? I had planned on getting the GT Velocity .300s for this speed build, but there ain't no returns at this pro shop, so I guess I made my choice, lol.

8. Do these REALLY have noticably-less wind drift at long ranges, all other factors being equal, than say, even a 9/32nds (.281) OD type arrow?

9. I know these are too small for even the Axis FOBs to work, but I'm going to shoot FOBs with them by putting a small sleeve/collar just in front of the nock, and also for added strength there too. After I add a quarter-inch long collar with the arrows from question # 4 above, will I then need the small or large FOBs - I guess I'll know once I figure out the answer to #4. Probably large I'm guessing. Well, there's no "large" FOB; there's only small and medium. So probably the medium sized one, I mean.

10. What is the weight of the little nocks that come in these from the factory?

11. Is it fair/safe to say that these ARE stronger/more durable than the Victory VForce HVs, or not really due to the thinness even though much heavier?
Thanks.

http://www.victoryarchery.com/carbon-arrows/hunting/victory-armour-piercing/


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## FirstFreedom (Dec 3, 2006)

By the way, I'm pretty happy with what I used last year for whitetails/pigs - the 11.3 gpi Easton FMJ .340s, so sticking with these penetrators for most hunting; it's just that I want a speed build for eastern Wyoming pronghorns; hence the VAPs with 100 heads & FOBs, for a legitimate 70+ yard capable rig (in low wind), for medium game up to about 125 lbs (pronghorns) in the dry plains. I'm moving up that way in a couple of years, so....

The total arrow weight for the speed build should end up in the 415-420 gr range; maybe a bit more. The bow will be an 80 lb with aggressive cams, so it has to be over 400. That is why I cannot use the Victory VForce HVs... can't get there from here, even with a 100 head and 28.25" arrow such as I need. Ha ha, it just occurs to me that I will have VAP arrows with VPA heads.


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## hunteraaron (Jan 28, 2010)

I am at present using the vap arrow for 3-d and will probly never use anything else.The secret to the arrows are to cut them off to your length,fletch them with what ever you are going to use.
then wiegh them.What I did was order the A/C/E inserts.They come in 39gr,49gr and 59gr.Then order the points the are 31 gr 36 gr 41 gr all the way up to 71gr.The inserts will cost you $29.99,the points are $18.50.The inserts are a little to big,but a little sand paper and the slide right in.I will include pics of my arrows to show how the look.At long distances you will love theese arrows.


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## FirstFreedom (Dec 3, 2006)

Oh, these Elites are also called the "V1s", if that helps ya.


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## FirstFreedom (Dec 3, 2006)

Where do you order the "out-serts" from? What do you mean, A/C/E insert? Thanks.

I think I'm going to run with the 85 VPA instead of the unvented 100 VPA since there's already a lot of weight up front with the out-sert and the sleeve.

Also, why would you use these for 3d? You don't need the penetration, and a fatter arrow would score better, no? Is it just for the wind-bucking? Or intrinsic accuracy level? Or both? Or something else?


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## rayzor43 (Apr 8, 2011)

FirstFreedom said:


> Where do you order the "out-serts" from? What do you mean, A/C/E insert? Thanks.
> 
> I think I'm going to run with the 85 VPA instead of the unvented 100 VPA since there's already a lot of weight up front with the out-sert and the sleeve.
> 
> Also, why would you use these for 3d? You don't need the penetration, and a fatter arrow would score better, no? Is it just for the wind-bucking? Or intrinsic accuracy level? Or both? Or something else?


On of our Prostaff won the Beast of the East Broadhead 3D competition shooting those 85s last year. If I recall correctly the shots that won it were at 87 yds?? Something like that anyway....well beyond my capabilities.


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## FirstFreedom (Dec 3, 2006)

That's pretty good info to know; thanks.

Soooo, can anyone answer ANY of my original 11+ questions? And/or any of the 6 or so more that were generated by hunteraaron and quoted by razor?

The only one I know the answer to so far is "were they a good deal" - I checked and the answer is yes. These usually go for $140-$150 per dozen on the low end.


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

Some good questions. Ive been looking at them as well. The velocitys I got are not very straight. I heard the outserts were not very strong is that true? I dont know what size outserts to get either.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

They did not come with the outserts? They should have come with the outserts....If they didn't you could get a hold of Victory and get some. I use VAPs for my Field arrows but, do not like the outserts(they bend) for broadhead or, FP use.


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## KellyP (Nov 19, 2011)

#9- The "micro" size fob is what you want for the vaps. I don't shoot these myself, I just noticed these on the fob website.

"New for 2011, Micro FOBs are designed for use with ALL Harvest Time Archery HT-1's and ALL Victory VAP.’s The Micro FOBs are for use with f/g nock arrows (NOT for use with unibushings). "


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## Top Dog Rick (Aug 2, 2008)

Check with Firenock !!! Dorge is making the best Outserts on the market .
The ones from Victory were bad about bending !


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## gregcoya (May 9, 2009)

If yuour hunting Dorge is also making firenocks for vaps.


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## monsterbuckrick (Aug 14, 2009)

I shoot the 300's as well. I use the Firenock outserts 6.06 size. I just lightly sand the end before installing and glue with insert iron. They have held up great. The insert penetrators all bent on me. That's why i went with the Firenocks. They are very tough Iv'e hit logs, plywood and the ground with no damage. I'm shooting 80lbs 30" 429 gr. 326 fps + 96 KE.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

1. You should be able to get them from Victory. I think Aeronock also has them.

2. See posts by Dorge, the owner of Aeronock I believe that he is the manufacturer

3. those are diameters. In fractions like that, it's usually referring to the points. 

4. Don't know. 16xx's OD of 0.250" and 17xx's have an OD of 0.266" but the wall thickness might not let them slip over 0.239". Also, the 0.239" won't be absolutely consistent. 

5. These are good arrows for either hunting or target. For target you can use the one piece points. For hunting get the stainless steel adapters. 

6. not much difference for most archers - $120 for V3's is about right.

7. don't know

8. smaller diameter arrows will have less wind drift than a larger arrow with the same weight and same FOC. Whether it's noticable depends on how well you shoot and the distance you are shooting.

9. Don't know about FOB's - never used them.

10. check Bohning website for F nocks

11. probably - 

JMHO,
Allen


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## FirstFreedom (Dec 3, 2006)

Thanks very much, all - espec. aread and KellyP

So, could I use firenocks WITH the micro-FOBs - that would be sweet.

I bought some of the factory/Victory 5/16ths" alum. outserts from the same brick/mortar pro shop where I got the arrows. But now I'm suspicious that they may have simply "swiped" them out of the box of arrows that I bought, so that they could sell them separately and thus come up with the "sale price" - are they not supposed to be in the box? I guess not, since there's different sizes. Guess I'm just being paranoid.


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## mhedlund (May 15, 2010)

#1-I have always had to pay extra for outserts, now using Victory 92gr stainless.

#7-Which of these two arrows is better for hunting/stronger/more durable: These VAP .300s @ 8.9 gpi or the GT Velocity .300s @ 8.5 gpi? -- I think the weakest link in the VAPs would be the aluminum outserts. I have shot both (lots) and hunted with Velocities for a year, I can't see any problem with either, great shafts.

#9-The micro FOBs are cool, I am experimenting with them now.

#10-6.2gr on my scale


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## stkline81 (Dec 28, 2008)

These are definitely your best option with the VAP's. They hold up better, penetrate deeper, are easier to remove, & are cheaper than the Victory inserts. http://shop.firenock.com/AeroOutsert-12-Count-AOA000.htm


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## FirstFreedom (Dec 3, 2006)

Oh man, stkline81, where were you the other day before I bought the Victory ones!? Those look awesome. So do they go BOTH over the outside of the shaft AND have a protrusion that goes down into the inside as well - or just over the outside?

So these serve both as a sleeve / strengthener AND an outsert?


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## Firenock (Nov 5, 2006)

FirstFreedom said:


> So these serve both as a sleeve / strengthener AND an outsert?


Yes, yes and yes


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## FirstFreedom (Dec 3, 2006)

OK, just ordered some 6.06 mms for the VAP .300s. Dang I wish I had known about these before I bought the regular ones.

They're:

1. Cheaper, and
2. Lighter (31 vs. 33 gr), and
3. Much stronger / no bending, and
4. Make your arrow shorter than with the others, which increases FOC, ceteris paribus, and
5. Have less "wedge effect" due to the fluting

What's not to like? I hope my pro shop will take back the regular Victory ones - normally they charge a 25% restocking fee - ugh.

How strong of a glue do you use on them?


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