# Alternative Archery



## Bean Burrito (Apr 20, 2011)

I was prepared to splash out big money at alternative- talked to them and wasn't impressed with the response. It was a "we're a big bulk sales shop and an individual customer means nothing to us" style response. Very quickly took my money locally. Cost a lot more but I'd rather it that way.


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## Darthat (Jun 30, 2012)

I wish I did the same. I am taking it up with the BBB as well. Even though they are abroad there are regulations they still have to abide by selling in the states.


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

I will say only this: with Alternative Services, you get the service you pay for.

Best of luck seeking recourse.


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## Darthat (Jun 30, 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement. Sounds like you had a bad experience as well...


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

I've had pretty good results with Altserv: fast delivery, as you experienced. I bought a closeout discontinued bow - missing limb bolts. They sent them along quickly, as I recall, though they were the W&W T-Rex style (not side adjustable) as they had none of those available. I was OK with it. 
I only buy a few items from them, often when they have an item not available here or when a few guys in my club want to consolidate an order to share shipping costs.


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

When they come through, they're good. But the fact that they will only handle customer service via e-mail should definitely be the first red flag to a new customer. The fact that they don't bother to reply to their e-mails should be the next -- especially since that means they essentially have no customer service, because when it's e-mail, and the customer has no other recourse to cancel an order that's taking too long, the company can pretty much just ignore whatever they don't feel like answering.

That said, I had one very good experience with them, and one that was less good, but not quite horrible. I won't be doing business with them again, though.


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

Darthat said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. Sounds like you had a bad experience as well...


Yes, and I know many who've had far, far worse. Sorry to be a bit downbeat, and I do genuinely wish you luck


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I had a very positive experience with Alt Services customer service. A few years ago I had a package stolen off my door step after deliver. I notified Alts Services since I figured I would have to reorder. They emailed me back telling me that they would replace it if it did not show up in 30 days, which is the timeframe established by the US postal service for lost packages. I was neither asking for that nor did I expect it. They ended up sending me a replacement when I notified them that the 30 day postal limit was expired. In this instance, they responded quickly to my emails and definitely exceeded my expectations.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I was pretty heavily into photography for years prior to taking up Olympic recurve. (sold two medium format Bronica cameras to buy the bows I used in '04, in fact). In that time I dealt with a lot of mail-order stores, as well as some local photography shops. There are positives and negatives to each. You just have to manage your expectations and be realistic.

Alt. Services can ship in-stock items quick and relatively cheap, but you're pretty well on your own. So if saving money is the #1 priority, then they can be a good "alternative" so to speak. It may cost a little more and the selection may be more limited, but dealing with someone like Lancasters will ensure you get quality customer service and recourse if you need it. Finally, going directly through your local dealer will of course be the slowest option, but for some, it's still the best option. 

The more you know, the more you can save.

John


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## swagpiratex (Apr 8, 2012)

I deal with Alternative when the order is really simple and they can't mess up the order. Like a pair of limbs, or something. 

Anything more complex goes local, and if local markup is more than reasonable, then Lancaster it is.


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## deadeyedickwc (Jan 10, 2010)

never had a problem with them i found they had great customer service , and was rather quick compaired to some of the shop here in the states


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

swagpiratex said:


> I deal with Alternative when the order is really simple and they can't mess up the order. Like a pair of limbs, or something.
> 
> Anything more complex goes local, and if local markup is more than reasonable, then Lancaster it is.


Probably not a bad approach. And what I meant by "the more you know..."


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

swagpiratex said:


> Anything more complex goes local, and if local markup is more than reasonable, then Lancaster it is.


I really envy you guys that have something local -- unreasonable mark-up or not! I took my Oly recurve to a shoot recently, and someone commented: "Hey, nice take-down you got there... but what's all that crap hangin' off'a it?" Just to be clear, he was referring to the sight and stabilizers. Yes, THAT'S how far I am in the Oly recurve black hole...


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

I stopped buying from Alternative the first time I saw this statement.

"Mix and Match Warning

The basic principle of International fitting limbs and risers is for all items, regardless of manufacturer, to be interchangeable. However, due to the re-design of certain manufacturers products this is no longer the case.

A particular case in point is the current range of Hoyt risers where the pivot point has now been moved back in line with the dovetail location. This pivot point on most other bows is on the leading edge of the pocket. This has resulted in some cases of poor fitting and non-alignment of limbs and in extreme cases even breakage due to the increased strain on the limbs."

Anyone care to validate this Alternative claim and explain how reflex/deflex can prevent limb alignment or how other bows are exempt from "extreme cases"?


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## Darthat (Jun 30, 2012)

Seattlepop said:


> I stopped buying from Alternative the first time I saw this statement.
> 
> "Mix and Match Warning
> 
> ...


Ya... Don't buy into Hoyt'snew limb fitting system that is proprietary. Stick with ILF.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

For small things that they have in stock they can't be beat, faster and cheaper than anywhere else.

-Grant


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

I've ordered a lot of stuff from Alt. No major problems. They respond to my emails without delay and have ordered a non-listed component for me when required.

I've no concerns ordering from them even though I read complaints occasionally on the internet.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Darthat said:


> Ya... Don't buy into Hoyt'snew limb fitting system that is proprietary. Stick with ILF.


Not relevant. The Alternative statement was on their site long before the new Hoyt "Formula" bows came out.


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

I have no problem ordering stuff from alt yes they have made mistakes on my orders but they always fixed it in the end. Sometimes I think people are impatient and want everything done yesterday but when your dealing with mail order companies it's going to be slow its a fact of life. If you want something now go to the shop and buy it straight off the shelf.


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## Darthat (Jun 30, 2012)

You're right in some aspects, up to the point that when you pay for a higher service you should get said service. Otherwise, why have it?


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

m013690 said:


> I really envy you guys that have something local -- unreasonable mark-up or not! I took my Oly recurve to a shoot recently, and someone commented: "Hey, nice take-down you got there... but what's all that crap hangin' off'a it?" Just to be clear, he was referring to the sight and stabilizers. Yes, THAT'S how far I am in the Oly recurve black hole...


..... /facepalm. That's someone who needs some education....


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

Makes me wonder if I should still consider buying my Xenotech from Alternatives. Hmm..


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## Darthat (Jun 30, 2012)

Having dealt with them now.... I wouldn't ever deal with them again.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

Never had the slightest problem with Alt over dozens of orders. always very quick and no problems. I wish I could say the same for certain domestic stores where stuff is "always coming in next week".


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

I never had a problem & yes they have answered my emails with in 3 days


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## Old Newbie (Apr 14, 2011)

Alt Archery has been helpful to members of my club. I recommended them as an option when stuck and not being able to buy locally or nationally. It's still worth spending a few pennies more or waiting a little longer to get it from a local dealer or a national one like Lancaster. It's better for the sport to have a local place to purchase goods and get help. Local stores facilitates locals jobs. I haven't really seen anyone get rich at this sport except for maybe 'one' arrow/bow manufacturer. 

My two cents.


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

You mean Hoyt and Easton .

I might go pick up my Xenotech at Lancasters and my limbs at Alternatives since they have a set of limbs I want and can't get anywhere else.


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## Old Newbie (Apr 14, 2011)

Well, I can't complain about Hoyt/Easton. That's work that's here and not overseas. Besides, in my super novice opinion, they make great gear but so does Sky, Spigarelli and Bernardini. (I mention them because I'm in Italy half of the time.) As for limbs that you can't get locally, I understand. I would just like to be able to test the MK Korea/Formula limbs as the korean manufacturers have outstanding product. It's not easy to do that where I live. I'm not pointing a finger, just throwing out those two dirty pennies again.


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## Chris RL (Oct 30, 2011)

Zero complaints for Alternative here. I've ordered from them *a lot*.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

Chris RL said:


> Zero complaints for Alternative here. I've ordered from them *a lot*.


..+1..


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## Norman2 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi, The first order for a Cartel Riser and Fantom Limbs was delivered 6 days after order. I then ordered some stabilizers and tools from them. They arrived at the ISC-USPS center in New York August 9, 2012 and nobody can locate or find them. Impossible to track and
they may take 4-6 weeks for delivery (If found). I have given up, so from now on I will order from Arrowsport Archery and Lancaster
Archery. No more overseas orders. Regards
Norman Storer


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## Darthat (Jun 30, 2012)

Sorry to hear Norman. This place has horrible customer service and they don't care!!! Don't order from them


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## Norman2 (Aug 4, 2012)

Darthat said:


> Sorry to hear Norman. This place has horrible customer service and they don't care!!! Don't order from them


Thanks, Never again. Have already ordered replacement parts that were lost from US. Lancaster and Arrowsport. Stuff has been shipped
and will be here tommorow.
Norman


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## nulimbender (Nov 30, 2005)

I ordered many times each year for past 4 years without issues. Problem due to shippers/carriers?


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

I've had consistently good service from Alternative. They make parts available that you can't find at Lancaster or elsewhere, e.g. an extra grip for my W&W/SF Forged +, Shibuya sight parts. When a tip flew off my W&W/SF limbs six months after purchase they were very good about replacing them with a new set. They are much better than Lancaster at providing accurate delivery dates for items not in stock and communicating when there are delays. 

I have also found some of their prices, even when trans-pond shipping has been taken into account, to be quite good. I've only had one "problem" where an item in their catalog was insufficiently documented on their website causing me to order (and have to return) a wrong part, but I've had similar problems with Lancaster.

Occasionally they act human, surly, like they have a life outside of work, like a company run by two people, like they're not trying to convince me that serving me is their primary goal in life. I'm okay with that. They've always pulled through for me. I like doing business with humans. Better that than having to listen to the "Lancaster Archery Supply" jingle on the phone one more time.

I do like Lancaster and do a good deal of business with them, and I also like having Alternative as an alternative to Lancaster.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

my friend and i have ordered from them probably 10 times. no problems. that being said , i only order things from them that i might not mind waiting for. the only time i had to wait was 3 weeks for a pair of limbsbut they were half the price of anywhere in the states.. anything i order im saving big on so i dont mind if its not the best customer service in the world (although for me its always been good). if you want mom and pop service then go give your local guys your business instead of trying to save a buck ordering from an internet only sales company overseas.. this seems like common cents to me (easy for me to say as i havent gotten the run around some of you have experienced).


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## kakend (Oct 30, 2007)

I bought an Italian riser from them and I got it fast, I have bought 2 or 3 other small package items, and never had anything but good luck. I do however see how having to wait and ship back and forth due to a part missing or improper part being shipped could get frustrating, but I think that you have to be willing to wait the extra time knowing that they are accross the ocean.

Kasey


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## Darthat (Jun 30, 2012)

If you pay for an apple, you should get an apple, not a half eaten apple. My riser came without limb bolts. You can't shoot the bloody thing without them. When you pay for express ship and get the main item fast that's all good, if you can use it. They shipped the bolts on a slow boat to China, and won't be here for 2 weeks. That is what is unacceptable.


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## Norman2 (Aug 4, 2012)

Darthat said:


> If you pay for an apple, you should get an apple, not a half eaten apple. My riser came without limb bolts. You can't shoot the bloody thing without them. When you pay for express ship and get the main item fast that's all good, if you can use it. They shipped the bolts on a slow boat to China, and won't be here for 2 weeks. That is what is unacceptable.[/QUOTE
> 
> I hope that they get through Customs OK.
> Regards
> Norman


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

Your frustration is understandable. I would be steaming too and the forum benefits from knowing about your problem. Nevertheless Alternative is an important resource in our world and I don't like to see an otherwise good company or person vilified based on one mistake. We Americans are, unfortunately, very good at that - Always ready to pound the table _demanding _the resignation of an otherwise qualified person based on one failure when, in fact, that person is the one person on the planet least likely to make the same mistake again. 

Now get yourself a stretch band and start working on your shot sequence and you might look back on the two weeks without your new bow as the best thing that ever happened for your archery skills.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

agillator said:


> Your frustration is understandable. I would be steaming too and the forum benefits from knowing about your problem. Nevertheless Alternative is an important resource in our world and I don't like to see an otherwise good company or person vilified based on one mistake. We Americans are, unfortunately, very good at that - Always ready to pound the table _demanding _the resignation of an otherwise qualified person based on one failure when, in fact, that person is the one person on the planet least likely to make the same mistake again.
> 
> Now get yourself a stretch band and start working on your shot sequence and you might look back on the two weeks without your new bow as the best thing that ever happened for your archery skills.


....well said..

i just got my order of extra weights for my barebow spigarelli explorer II within 2 weeks and that's not bad considering i'm about 8000 miles away.....

...and that's just regular mail...


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

Any supplier doing business on a world-wide basis is bound to make some mistakes; it's the nature of the beast. However, I've ordered dozens of items from Alt Services over the years, rangeing from risers/limbs to tabs, plungers, arrows, rests, etc. I've always experienced great service, pricing and deliveries from them. It's easy to see why they only want to communicate via e-mail when one considers the cost of overseas phone calls. I'll continue to use them and recommend them to others.


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## x1440 (Jan 5, 2003)

Have anyone of you that ordered risers and limbs from them ever have to pay import customs taxes when you received your items?


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

I bought a set of limbs from Alt and did not have any import custom fees, but that was 5 years ago. Don't know if things have changed since then.


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

Nope


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

Seattlepop said:


> I stopped buying from Alternative the first time I saw this statement.
> 
> "Mix and Match Warning
> 
> ...


With the "original" ILF system the limbs loaded on the floor of the limb pocket. So, for example, with my Samick Master Riser and Limbs the limb loads on the riser around one cm forwards of the dovetail. Hoyt changed their ILF design so that the limb loaded level with the dovetail. This was inevitable when they introduced their washer based alignment system where the limb loads on the bar carrying the dovetail slot. Problems can occur when you "mix and match" the two systems in terms of the limb loading. An example I've seen is where new Hoyt limbs where installed on an old Hoyt ILF riser. The limbs were damaged by being loaded at the edge of the limb pocket when the limbs were designed to load at the dovetail slot position. Probably a rare occurrence where the combination causes a problem (and you could say it was user error) but presumably Alternative had enough returns to issue the warning.

Most of my stuff came from Alternative and no problems. The key with any on line-purchasing is to know exactly what you want up front and don't expect the dealer to work out what it is you need.


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## Norman2 (Aug 4, 2012)

*Alternative Sporting*

Hi. I would like to clarify what happened with Alternative Services. All my order has arrived except for the
stabilizers. They got to the US on Aug 9, 2012 but our highly intelligent Customs Offices at ISC New York
decided they were a risk when they went through the scanning process as they thought they resembled a rifle
and handgun barrel even thought the paperwork said they were Archery Stabilizers. They then sent me letter
today requesting an explanation. I have answered back with a copy of the purchase order and they will then
transfer package to the USPS for delivery. In all fairness it was not Alternative Services fault at all. I will add
this experience to others I have had with Government Agencies. Regards
Norman2


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## x1440 (Jan 5, 2003)

It's funny that the HPX is cheaper from Alt Services than from Lancaster..


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## Chris RL (Oct 30, 2011)

I believe they price competitively with local shops worldwide and adjust their prices to take into account the extra shipping costs from the UK.
The main UK fencing supplier, Leon Paul, does the same thing with their products.


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## Zbone (Aug 4, 2012)

Anyone know a contact number for Alternative? Been thinking about placing an order but had a couple questions and can't find a phone number on their web site.... Thanx


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

Zbone said:


> Anyone know a contact number for Alternative? Been thinking about placing an order but had a couple questions and can't find a phone number on their web site.... Thanx


AFAIK they will only accept orders online.

.....or even questions....


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

x1440 said:


> It's funny that the HPX is cheaper from Alt Services than from Lancaster..


All bows in the US must include a 11% Federal Excise Tax, thus Lancaster Archery pays 11% more for the same bow, which is passed on to the buyer. Alternative does not have to pay that FET since it is a company outside of the US. However, if the IRS ever got picky, they will charge US buyers that fee plus a penalty, plus interest. It is very doubtful this will happen, but then again....


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Rick is correct, FET is a real issue. It's even required on quivers.

All those I ship to out of the US, including Canada, are required to pay a duty on the item before they can pick it up or at the time of delivered. Australia is the absolute worst. However, here in the US overseas companies, in many cases, can ship with no duty charged, thereby undercutting US pricing.


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## Zbone (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanx folks, Alternative is out.


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## Darthat (Jun 30, 2012)

WOOT!!! I finally got my limb bolts!!! Unfortunately, not from alternative archery. I got the set from Cartel in Korea yesterday. I spoke with them about the same issue. They got me the bolts quicker than the company I purchased from. Wow. Never again.


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## frankjd (Feb 13, 2011)

alternative is no different from any global vendor. there will always be postal issues, it's a way of life on planet earth. fwiw, i've never had a problem with alternative, about a dozen orders over a decade or so. on 8/22 i ordered out a fantom kit and some other goodies and they just arrived intact, as ordered, an hour ago today, 8/24. and yes, you do need to know precisely what yer ordering as email communications with alternative is slow and the only way to go.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Seattlepop said:


> I stopped buying from Alternative the first time I saw this statement.
> 
> "Mix and Match Warning
> 
> ...


I don't know why you'd stop buying bows based on their statement. It has nothing to do with the quality of their service or the products they sell. 

What I assume they are talking about is that hoyt has moved the deepest part of the grip back relative to the limbs. This means that at the same draw length you are bending the limbs significantly more. I don't think they are referring to alignment in terms of horizontal alignment, but I would say that their choice of wording could be improved upon.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Rick McKinney said:


> All bows in the US must include a 11% Federal Excise Tax, thus Lancaster Archery pays 11% more for the same bow, which is passed on to the buyer. Alternative does not have to pay that FET since it is a company outside of the US. However, if the IRS ever got picky, they will charge US buyers that fee plus a penalty, plus interest. It is very doubtful this will happen, but then again....


I've gotta say that the Federal Excise Tax is archaic. What other industries are subject to such a special sales tax? Seems crazy. Does it only apply to sales that cross state borders?

IIRC, the excise tax was supposed to be earmarked to benefit archery, parks or game or some such. Does that actually happen?


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Warbow said:


> I don't know why you'd stop buying bows based on their statement. It has nothing to do with the quality of their service or the products they sell.
> 
> What I assume they are talking about is that hoyt has moved the deepest part of the grip back relative to the limbs. This means that at the same draw length you are bending the limbs significantly more. I don't think they are referring to alignment in terms of horizontal alignment, but I would say that their choice of wording could be improved upon.


Poor wording? Doubt it. It makes very specific claims, and I think I'm quoting you here: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". So, got evidence? 

If that isn't what they meant, they have had ample time to correct or delete it. Simply put, Alternative, a Europe-based seller, is casting aspersions on a US-made product with specific, unfounded claims. As a matter of principle, I don't need to shop there.


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

> the excise tax was supposed to be earmarked to benefit archery, parks or game or some such. Does that actually happen?


Absolutely. The money doesn't go to the treasury, the Interior Department distributes it among the states for various conservation efforts. Look up the Pittman Robertson Act of 1937. From what I've read, the firearms industry and conservation groups lobbied for the legislation.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Seattlepop said:


> Poor wording? Doubt it. It makes very specific claims, and I think I'm quoting you here: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". So, got evidence?


That isn't an extraordinary claim, it is an ordinary one. Do you disagree with their claim that Easton has moved the grip on some of their ILF their risers back relative to the limbs? Yes or no?


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Warbow said:


> That isn't an extraordinary claim, it is an ordinary one. Do you disagree with their claim that Easton has moved the grip on some of their ILF their risers back relative to the limbs? Yes or no?


Lol, of course they did, the question is - did you get lost on your way back to the Campfire with that argumentative BS? 

You know as well as I do that the issue is not whether or not Hoyt has made a change on some bows, the issue is whether that change has caused the problems claimed by Alternative. The burden of proof is on he who makes the claim. Oh wait, that's what YOU always say...so do you have evidence that "*This has resulted in some cases of poor fitting and non-alignment of limbs and in extreme cases even breakage due to the increased strain on the limbs."?* Yes or no? 

"Mix and Match Warning

The basic principle of International fitting limbs and risers is for all items, regardless of manufacturer, to be interchangeable. However, due to the re-design of certain manufacturers products this is o longer the case.

A particular case in point is the current range of Hoyt risers where the pivot point has now been moved back in line with the dovetail location. This pivot point on most other bows is on the leading edge of the pocket. *This has resulted in some cases of poor fitting and non-alignment of limbs and in extreme cases even breakage due to the increased strain on the limbs."*


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

Seattlepop said:


> Lol, of course they did, the question is - did you get lost on your way back to the Campfire with that argumentative BS?
> 
> You know as well as I do that the issue is not whether or not Hoyt has made a change on some bows, the issue is whether that change has caused the problems claimed by Alternative. The burden of proof is on he who makes the claim. Oh wait, that's what YOU always say...so do you have evidence that "*This has resulted in some cases of poor fitting and non-alignment of limbs and in extreme cases even breakage due to the increased strain on the limbs."?* Yes or no?
> 
> ...


One last attempt to clear this up. By "Pivot Point" Alternative were referring to pivot point of the bow limb on the riser *not* the bow pivot point (as in grip).
No one was being anti Hoyt, only pointing out that the Hoyt modification to their limb geometry could cause problems with the "standard" ILF limb/riser geometry i.e. nothing "wrong" with the modified Hoyt ILF, any more then there is anything "wrong" with the ILF + extended limb butt geometry of the Formula system.

So no problem with fitting Hoyt current limbs into current Hoyt risers. Hoyt have not responsibility with respect to how how their limbs work in other peoples' risers or old discontinued Hoyt risers.

To be fair Alternative were misleading with the comment about limbs loading "on the leading edge of the pocket". This is in fact irrelevant and only true for some standard ILF systems. The key point is that with the standard ILF the limb surface was parallel to the riser at the point of loading. The problem with a bad mix and match was the limb surface loading *at an angle* over the edge of the limb pocket (in some cases a knife edge). This obviously resulted in the the edge of the limb pocket cutting into the limb. With occurrence of this I saw the limb damage was spotted very rapidly by the archer (an aerospace fitter) and the cause quickly identified. If not spotted early then limb failure becomes a possibility.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Joe T said:


> One last attempt to clear this up. By "Pivot Point" Alternative were referring to pivot point of the bow limb on the riser *not* the bow pivot point (as in grip).
> No one was being anti Hoyt, only pointing out that the *Hoyt modification to their limb geometry* could cause problems with the "standard" ILF limb/riser geometry i.e. nothing "wrong" with the modified Hoyt ILF, any more then there is anything "wrong" with the ILF + extended limb butt geometry of the Formula system.
> 
> So no problem with fitting Hoyt current limbs into current Hoyt risers. Hoyt have not responsibility with respect to how how their limbs work in other peoples' risers or old discontinued Hoyt risers.
> ...


Thanks for the attempted clarification, but I find your comments confusing. The Alternative quote specifically says "Hoyt risers"...are the cause of limb fitting issues. There is no statement regarding modification to their "limb geometry". 

If there is no problem fitting Hoyt limbs, there will be no problem fitting other mfr limbs (non-Formula). The Olympics had mix and match Hoyt with non-Hoyt limbs in every GMX I spotted. Also, the only time a limb will be parallel to the riser is cranked into full reflex? All my limbs show where the "knife edge" of the limb pocket impacts it, and that is with both older PSE and Hoyt, especially since I shoot with the limbs at the minimum weight setting which increases the angle in question. Even then, there is a limit as to how deep that will cut and limb failure is impossible to imagine. Your archer must have had a very strange set up imho (and I would have given him more credence had he been a plumber) . Note also that Alternative states that in comparison, "This pivot point on most other bows is on the leading edge of the pocket". This clearly implies that they think this is the correct method, which you suggest can sever a limb. 

There is simply no justification for Alternative's statement. It is entirely false, thus misleading and should be removed.


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## vlesiv (Oct 20, 2013)

Back to the customs fees and taxes question for orders from abroad including Alternatives. I've ordered several things (a pair of limbs ($150), new stabilizers ($220)) from Alternatives and never paid any customs fees. 

It says that all orders over $200 require customs clearance, and I paid it once on an order shipped from Germany via DHL (not related to archery), but not on those my two orders - Alternatives shipped via UPS, orders came in very quick and I never received any other bills except original Alternatives price

I'm wondering - has anyone who ordered staff for more than $200 online from abroad to USA even paid customs fee or those 11% taxes required by law? 

Thanks for any information


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## RiceFish (Nov 18, 2013)

I've order stuff over $200 (sight + rest) from them to ship to the USA and never had to pay customs fee or 11% taxes. I just had it delivered straight to my door through royal mail. Only had to pay for the items and shipping.


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## _JR_ (Mar 30, 2014)

I just received an order from Alternative earlier this week. It came quickly - about a week from the time I ordered it until it was shipped (there were some things they didn't have 'in stock') and it took four days from the time it was shipped until it was at my doorstep. 
The total order value was $284 with no single item over $91 (set of limbs). Didn't get charged VAT tax or customs duty.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I have ordered dozens of times from Alt Services and have always gotten my items as ordered and speedy, and save a ton of money over the US online giant.


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

I ordered something and used Royal Mail -- which then transfers to the USPS. It was basically in the States the next day. Then sat in customs at LAX for several days. I am saving all my receipts from them anyway because I got hit with a sales tax bill from the California State Board of Equalization for a harp I bought from a Canadian maker. 4 years after the harp showed up at my door. So I don't know about other states, but California will track you down.

They had what I wanted for WAY less than Lancaster when Lancaster did carry it, which they don't anymore.

As far as communicating with them I found email to be the best. I had a question about wait time on the Spigarelli Vision and they got back to me right away. The wait is even more heinous than shown on their website. (Spig ships randomly, not in any sort of logical order).

I wouldn't hesitate to order from if the item is in stock or the wait is short, but I have to factor in the wait time at US Customs at LAX.

How come you guys get your stuff fast if delivered to the US and mine sits?


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## _JR_ (Mar 30, 2014)

My order went through Philadelphia, it was shipped UPS. Maybe their stuff goes through Philly instead of LAX, or maybe it's a NorCal / SoCal thing? At any rate, according to the tracking info it cleared customs in just one day. 

A harp, eh? You have multiple string-plucking hobbies!


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

_JR_ said:


> My order went through Philadelphia, it was shipped UPS. Maybe their stuff goes through Philly instead of LAX, or maybe it's a NorCal / SoCal thing? At any rate, according to the tracking info it cleared customs in just one day.
> 
> A harp, eh? You have multiple string-plucking hobbies!


I call bow a weaponized harp. It also allows me free use of my $10 micrometer from Harbor Freight tools to gauge string diameters on both toys, arrows diameter and tab thickness from tab to tab. And just in general have too much information.


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## gif (Jul 14, 2012)

StarDog said:


> I ordered something and used Royal Mail... It was basically in the States the next day. Then sat in customs at LAX for several days.


I'm going through the same thing right now, but with NYC customs. Somehow Royal Mail can ship to the other side of the world in 2 days, but usps takes over a week to ship to the other side of the state.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

gif said:


> Somehow Royal Mail can ship to the other side of the world in 2 days, but usps takes over a week to ship to the other side of the state.


 It doesn't make sense, for me, shipments arrive in Richmond a city 8 miles away, then goes to Sacramento 80 miles away and finally back down to SF. It can take the whole process up to 5 days before I get it.


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## gif (Jul 14, 2012)

Ha that's nothing. I've ordered from Lancaster before and had packages go all the way to Phoenix before being delivered to me in NY. Usps is ridiculous.


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## gif (Jul 14, 2012)

By the way, I've had nothing but good experiences with alt services and Royal Mail.


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## vlesiv (Oct 20, 2013)

I see the same issue when my orders are shipped initially via RoyalMail. One of my latest order arrived to NYC one week ago, still hasn't cleared out. When they ship directly via UPS (or when you select more expensive shipment type) - everything arrives in a few days without problems. 

So, it sounds like nobody had to pay customs fees/extra taxes on orders above $200, except of some cases unrelated to archery (I paid DHL customs clearance fee on orders from Germany, but never on my archery orders from alternatives) 

Good to know that


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