# The truth about accuracy and bow price??



## Jeff Burris (Jul 28, 2010)

Obviously the biggest factor in accuracy is who's pulling the string back, or "skill".
Also, I've been reading a lot about arrows.
Here's what I really want to know, though:
What is the real difference in _accuracy_, if the same exact traditional, instinctive technique is used to fire two totally bare, bows very similar in type but not price or multi-faceted quality standards (no stabilizer, even, just traditional but allowing for fiberglass etc.)... 
...let's say I have a Greatree Goshawk takedown ($120) and I compare just it's accuracy to a Martin/Damon Howatt Hatfield ($894), after firing 100 arrows from each (and I'm some really awesome archer version of myself with a goatee from a parallel universe) -- would my grouping _really be different_, or is the quality largely aesthetics, durability, some sort of comfort like resonance that only post-affects me and not my shot, and so forth?
I already ordered the Goshawk, but I'll be honest, I don't usually have money to buy squat, and a few more hundred dollars that I'm treating myself to probably won't happen for a long, long time... I could invest that money in my lapidary hobby and/but/**or** if I _really think_ a bow that looks just like my Greatree but costs more (maybe not $900... but maybe $400 instead of $120) will help my accuracy as I plunge into traditional target competition and tournaments (I expect to be ready relatively quickly since I'm already adept at compound, but tend to shoot instinctively with the dang thing) -- it would be a very wise decision to buy one now so I don't wind up regretting having a _bow that is limiting my accuracy_ (could accuracy limitation even truly be possible with the Greatree Goshawk if the only other alternatives I'd consider are the exact same style of traditional/instinctive, stabilizer-free take-downs but just more expensive with slightly different-sounding materials or craftsmanship?) after training and buying swell arrows, and not being able to afford to advance later on, financially?
I actually think the Goshawk looks awesome. But I'd rather set it aside as a backup and splurge on a more expensive one now if accuracy difference truly is significant.
Thanks, sincerely, for your opinion!
Jeff


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Jeff - 

For A BOW to be accurate, the only thing it has to be is "stable" (definition 1 = not change during a shooting session or over time). 

For a shooter to be accurate (based on a given skill level) the bow has to be "stable" (definition 2 = the bow has to allow the shooter to interface with it as consistently as possible.) 

Definition 1 is almost a given with modern laminated bows, note the word almost. Some that you would expect to be stable aren't as stable as you might think.) Definition 2 is a little is a little trickier to understand. Things like grip configuration, balance, limb timing and even design in regard to arrow placement on the riser, as well as the draw force curve on the limbs factor in. 

The only time you NEED a new or different bow is when you can identify something you want it to do that it physically can't. Unfortunately, or fortunately, that not why we usually but new bows 

When we speak of "world class" bows, a part of that requires a world class shooter to exploit some of the features. Most of us couldn't tell the difference between a great bow and a decent one. That's not meant to be insulting, just a matter of fact. 

Viper1 out.


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## randy grider (Mar 20, 2010)

Stability is definately important, but to me, speed, or flat trajectory definately helps too, making range estimation less critical. Of course some bows, by design, materials, and attention to detail in their making are faster, and more stable as well. It takes a skilled bowyer to marry the 2 into a bow.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I think Viper explained the physical attributes quite well, but there are also other considerations for some folks. Aesthetics, some bows are truly functional works of art. The other thing that comes to mind is owning a name. If a guy has a Black Widow, most often he will let you know it. For some it matters, for others it does not. Personally I don't care too much about the bow, what impress me is where the arrows land.


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## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

There's an excellent bit in Byron Ferguson's book _Become the Arrow_ noting that arrows are a huge determiner in accuracy, and of course there's always the old Native American saying(s) to the (rough) effect of ``Any stick will do for a bow, but an arrow must be perfect.''


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## Jeff Burris (Jul 28, 2010)

*thanks*

Awesome stuff guys, thanks. It's really kind of what I wanted to hear, for the most part. I didn't want to think perhaps I'm not a world-class shooter (just kidding) but lets say I was _the_ most world-class archer: a robot bolted in place able to 100% replicate every aspect of what he did when he shot the two similar bows. Would his grouping be just as tight with the $120 special as it is with the one costing 100's of %'s that, if the bows were the same style & equipped the same, and he was using the same rest types be they the fuzzy shelf on each or a plastic elevated one glued on, _same arrows_ etc...
_that is to ask_ of this stability definition: without a stabilizer accessory on either, could there be something about the one bow that makes the shots wind up with random variables more than the other simply because of the resonance of the type of takedown riser material, or some quality variation of the glass and maple limbs, or is the stability just how a human interfaces with the bow (something the mechanical robot was unaffected by, as he squeezes the riser with a vice grip and lets go of the string with super servos)? That's what it sounds like, is that it's more of the human interface w/stability, which is kind of cool to think about if you're simultaneously quite serious about exploring your accuracy but not rich. 
I've seen some people modify with weights on their riser which is legal for US Traditional and FITA Barebow as long as they're "dead" weights and not some type of stabilizers.

(I like the saying about the arrows, I can certainly believe that's key if you're really trying to score. I'm buying some lesser expensive practice arrows for my mix so I don't spend senseless $ on training but certainly respect they must be good when it's game time, and have my eye on some good ones for fine tune training and competition.)


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## BowmanJay (Jan 1, 2007)

I will also add that many times many folks dont take the time to tune their arrows to their bows. I dont see how you will ever be accurate if you dont? Viper hit it right on the head about the bow's stability, most bows today by the bowyer's out there are good bows, it is all up to the shooter to do the rest....


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## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

Jeff Burris said:


> Awesome stuff guys, thanks. It's really kind of what I wanted to hear, for the most part. I didn't want to think perhaps I'm not a world-class shooter (just kidding) but lets say I was _the_ most world-class archer: a robot bolted in place able to 100% replicate every aspect of what he did when he shot the two similar bows. Would his grouping be just as tight with the $120 special as it is with the one costing 100's of %'s that, if the bows were the same style & equipped the same, and he was using the same rest types be they the fuzzy shelf on each or a plastic elevated one glued on, _same arrows_ etc...
> _that is to ask_ of this stability definition: without a stabilizer accessory on either, could there be something about the one bow that makes the shots wind up with random variables more than the other simply because of the resonance of the type of takedown riser material, or some quality variation of the glass and maple limbs, or is the stability just how a human interfaces with the bow (something the mechanical robot was unaffected by, as he squeezes the riser with a vice grip and lets go of the string with super servos)? That's what it sounds like, is that it's more of the human interface w/stability, which is kind of cool to think about if you're simultaneously quite serious about exploring your accuracy but not rich.
> I've seen some people modify with weights on their riser which is legal for US Traditional and FITA Barebow as long as they're "dead" weights and not some type of stabilizers.
> 
> (I like the saying about the arrows, I can certainly believe that's key if you're really trying to score. I'm buying some lesser expensive practice arrows for my mix so I don't spend senseless $ on training but certainly respect they must be good when it's game time, and have my eye on some good ones for fine tune training and competition.)


I really can't understand the logic behind getting all caught up in questioning whether or not one bow is better than another, as most bows will be able to shoot better than any archer can. It's the monkey holding the riser that is usually the cause of all screw-ups


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## Orion Major (Oct 20, 2006)

Great post Jeff, *I*can definitely see the logic in getting caught up in the debate over the difference between a $120 bow and a $1200 bow. I wish the issue got addressed even more than it does. 

I see A LOT of shooters with $1200 bows that aren't happy with thier shooting. Maybe if they understood how likely it is that they'd be shooting as well with a $120 bow, they might enjoy the whole experience a little better.

You can't buy accuracy or consistancy.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

In some instances, you're just buying a name. Design attributes that make for a more stable bow can be in a "cheap" bow just as they can be in an expensive ones. 

For example, it will cost about $500 for a Howard Hill longbow. For $50 we bought the materials to make a Hill style longbow. Modified slightly for tastes, two were built that shoot quite well, one for my friend Art and one for my brother. At the same time, however, these fiberglass laminated bows are no more accurate than the selfbows I built, and shoot no faster. My selfbows cost pocket change for a string and finish.

If the designs of the two bows in question are different, then there may be claims to improved accuracy. If they're not... don't worry so much. At that point it's how good are your arrows/tune/shooting?


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## Jeff Burris (Jul 28, 2010)

*cool*

Well, I find this all rather pleasing 
There have been two or three phases of my, now, 40 year old life where I spent a great deal of time on the hobby/sport. Either computers, girls, or non-replaced, broken & lost arrows came along and caused very large gaps in between. I was always pleased with gradual progression. I tend to focus on things more, now, so it was important to me to know a few vital tidbits I don't see mentioned in the midst of the usual topics, ahead of time. 
So, it seems, it need not be a repeat of my snowboarding scenario; I had the most expensive goggles on the slope ('cuz I just _had_ to have them), and I was also the only one complaining of two sprained wrists, _and_ a concussion after my 25 mph, face-plant into a sheet of ice. 
I don't need to have the expensive rig to be able to exhibit skill, and I'm ecstatic leave the board behind and get back to the bow


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Human error exists...therefore equipment that reduces the effect of human error will help the archer become more accurate.

The amount of improvement an archer will see will more than likely only be a matter of 1 -5% at the most....which can be the difference in winning or loosing a close tournament but it will not make a poor shooter into an exceptional shooter.

The problem is when an archer puts to much emphasis on equipment to make excuses for their shooting ability rather than focusing on developing their form so that it is extremely CONSISTENT.

Ray :shade:


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## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

Orion Major said:


> Great post Jeff, *I*can definitely see the logic in getting caught up in the debate over the difference between a $120 bow and a $1200 bow. I wish the issue got addressed even more than it does.
> 
> I see A LOT of shooters with $1200 bows that aren't happy with thier shooting. Maybe if they understood how likely it is that they'd be shooting as well with a $120 bow, they might enjoy the whole experience a little better.
> 
> You can't buy accuracy or consistancy.


I think we're saying the same thing


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Take a look in the Classified section here and at tradgang.com and you'll see super bows being sold. Imagine spending up to and beyond 1200 on a bow and not being happy with it. For some appearance gives them all the juice they need. For me it comes down to how does the bow feel when I'm pointing an arrow at a target. If the fit is good, chances are the shot will be also. If the bow cost's 1000 or a 100 and looks to kill but the bow stacks for me and doesn't feel right, my accuracy will finish that sentence. Unfortunately the compound shooters have a desirable advantage, they can go to any decent archery shop and try the bows they are interested in. If you don't have a shop that stocks some traditional bows, it is very hard to gauge the difference between them. At one point I had two identical Howard Hill longbows, both the same length and weight give or take a pound. Same grip. One reacted differently than the other after the shot. That's the issue with trad bows, they may look the same, but they really are original.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

WillAdams said:


> There's an excellent bit in Byron Ferguson's book _Become the Arrow_ noting that arrows are a huge determiner in accuracy, and of course there's always the old Native American saying(s) to the (rough) effect of ``Any stick will do for a bow, but an arrow must be perfect.''



Any old stick do for bow, good arrow damn heap work.:wink:


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## Jeff Burris (Jul 28, 2010)

*oh yeah*

heee... that's the thing, as a mature adult, I really don't know what traditional recurve "feel" is going to suit me. Getting back to shooting of recent months, I'd bought a late 80's or early 90's Howatt Warthog for an awesome deal at a pawn shop, just because my last bow had been similar. Then, after seeing people shooting traditional recurves and other bows, I remembered ho much I'd loved my Red Bear all fiberglass, rubber handle, left &/or right hand recurve as a youth. 
So I got all heated up, settled on being obsessed with it forever, lol, and looked and looked and lost bids on vintage bows on Ebay etc. and so on until I just looked at my bank acct., looked at the $120 Greatree Goshawk, and ordered it, sort of liking it was brand new _and_ I wouldn't lose the auction...
NOW I find I've got a few hundred headed my way the wife will let me spend instead of just save toward her (I mean our) wee camper, AND come to find out I'm withing an hour drive of a store that sells _nothing but_ traditional bows, mostly recurves, LOL. Imagine how hard it will be not to drive over there! I don't know if you can fire there, and the bows look unstrung, but I'm sure they'll string several and let you feel them without letting go... I'll definitely buy nice arrows before spending so much I can't, lol.
Thanks for all the advice, including the last comment about the matched feel aspect.


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## Robot-guy (Aug 18, 2005)

Yeah, bow prices are starting to get a little crazy. When I bought my bow 5 years ago, it was only $450 (hand made). Now the same bow is $800. It is a good, and the biggest shooting problem it has is me.

So I decided to take up the art of building bows myself. For $800 I get get a lot of tooling. My goal is to learn how to build a good bow that fits well with me, and then I don't have to rely on other sources for bows.

Does anyone have any experience with the take down bow design from Bingham?


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## Jeff Burris (Jul 28, 2010)

*oh yes*

I can certainly agree on the allure of hand crafting bows and arrows, from the standpoint of someone who's never tried my first "selfbow" or even arrow yet. 
I have watched videos until losing serious sleep, and started to collect an item or two toward that project ;p


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Though I make no claims as far as serious competition, I do stand firm in that any hunter (or backyard flinger) who is already comfortable with a 15-20 yard limit on game will give up nothing to a store-bought bow.

Building a bow with cast good enough to hunt with (around 160+ fps with 10 gpp) is no more difficult than building a dog of a bow. Design is the biggest determing factor. If a person is willing to ask around and work carefully, there's no reason why they couldn't design their first bows well either.


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## Clang! (Sep 29, 2007)

There was the same debate in the FITA forum a while back. The upshot was that for the "typical" archer there wasn't that great of a difference between budget bows and top of the line tackle provided _the setups were properly fitted, matched, and tuned._ A world class archer will see the difference, but I won't

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1019543


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## Perceval (Nov 25, 2008)

Clang! said:


> There was the same debate in the FITA forum a while back. The upshot was that for the "typical" archer there wasn't that great of a difference between budget bows and top of the line tackle provided _the setups were properly fitted, matched, and tuned._ A world class archer will see the difference, but I won't
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1019543


If i recall well , Michelle Frangilli , one of the best oly archer of this times ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Frangilli ) has tried an entry level oly bow properly set-up some years ago to debunk the myth, after getting used to the bow he was performing as good as usual plus or minus a couple points .


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## BlackStag55 (Aug 22, 2010)

I'm just getting back into traditional archery after a few years, I was given a 50# vintage indian that I refurbished. It is one of there higher end bows as it has the metal inlay rather than the stamped identification on it. Still I can't imagine it going for more than $75 in this market; It's still just an indian. I also picked up a vintage 1955 recurve bow made by a company called Black Stag archery Clinton Indiana 48#. This bow is definitely set up right. It has all the little details you see in most higher end bows today and is in mint condition and would probably sell for $400-$500 if made today. Both bows feel very comfortable in my hand, and I seem to be able to hit the target with both of them and will be probably able to hit a deer with both of them when I take them hunting this year. I also do plan on ordering one of the Greatree hunting bows later this year. I also had a chance to use a higher end Bear bow this year. I seem to be able to hit the target with that bow also, so I don't know. I used to always go for the bigger better peace of equipment when I was younger. As I've gotten older I've found It don't really matter how much I spend as long as I comfortable with what I have. " Let your equipment work for you rather than you work for you equipment".


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

*I don't want to send mixed messages*

and I don't want to pretend I know anything about this, but I DO shoot a lot and when you shoot a lot, you should become aware of things whether they solve the problem or not. When you shoot a lot, you become aware of what happens to YOU when you do certain things... this is why you can "call" the shot before it leaves the string or barrel oftentimes.

In MY OPINION, if a bow and a shooter are CONSISTANT, then the shooter can make a bow as accurate as he needs, it doesn't matter that an arrow is underspined, overspined, or whatever it might be as long as you know what THAT arrow is going to do when you do what you do. If it shoots left, you aim right.... Dan'l boon called it kentucky windage.

My shooting is all me. Your shooting is all yours. Something that Viper said, though, and if you don't try different bows or have a bow where you can change the handles and grip, you will find that some bows are just downright uncomfortable and I defy you to shoot comfortably and CONSISTENTLY with a bow you don't like holding, or one with considerable handshock.

I know of archers that don't believe that there is something like handshock. I can only say, for you non-believers, I pray you experience this someday as a pox on you and your families. Some bows will give you a headache so bad that Advil or Aspirin won't help.... not sure oxy would either... on the other hand, some bows are just "sweet". My Nova is like that. It's just smooth. I have a friend with a checkmate bow, he says the same thing.

I can say this... that for me, a bow with a pistol grip riser is FAR preferable to a straight grip or even a straight pistol grip or in the longbow regime, a bow that doesn't allow me to draw the bow into the web of my hand with a notch in the riser... no real grip/handle required.... as an aside, this is where my dorado has a nice time of it... it's got other detractions, but the grip isn't one of them.

I guess what I'm getting at is that if you have a bow you LIKE TO SHOOT, you will probably once you learn how to anchor, be as accurate as you will ever be with any bow, whether the proverbial 1200 bow or 120.

Ok... I go back to my burrow now... 

Aloha... :beer:


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## bambam1 (Jul 22, 2007)

All xcellent advise here.. I look at it like this. I think trad bows are a lot like golf clubs, in the hands of an expert a cheap set of wally world irons would make them ukey:. But, put a set of pings or callaways in the hands of a not so skilled golfer and he most likely couldn't justify the xtra cash spent and be more than happy with the knockoffs.


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## flycaster (Jul 28, 2008)

I"m going to say this, not to boast, but only to make a point. Years ago, when I started shooting trap and skeet, I watched a few of the well-heeled trap shooters with their multi-adjustable "rigs". They could adjust for stock length, length of pull, height of the cheek piece... you get the idea. And on their scary-pricy Parazzis. Couldn't hit squat. My first 25-Straight in trap was shot with an off the shelf Remington 670 pump. I was never a great shot, but that round felt awfully good against those pompous "gents"! Point being, of course, that the equipment didn't matter. 

I agree with Rattus' point about a bow fitting the shooter. I have a PSE Firebird that I can't shoot to save my life- maybe literally! it just feels clumsy in my hand. My Bear Grizz, on the other hand, feels just right- and my groups show it.

Chuck


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I just upgraded my Winstar2 Riser for a Pro-accent carbon Riser, I havent had time to compare scores yet but practice groups look about the same. I do have a lot less vibration and the physical weight feels more comfortable, I hope in time these small differences will add a few points here and there :thumbs_up

The top Longbow guys that shoot pretty close scores to me in tourneys when I shoot Longbow were a 100 points down on my Recurve score last week, I was amazed at the margin a more stable Recurve with elevated flipper rest, Carbon arrows, shooting 3 under gave me over my Longbow.


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## hockeyref (Jun 2, 2006)

Jeff Burris said:


> heee... that's the thing, as a mature adult, I really don't know what traditional recurve "feel" is going to suit me. Getting back to shooting of recent months, I'd bought a late 80's or early 90's Howatt Warthog for an awesome deal at a pawn shop, just because my last bow had been similar. Then, after seeing people shooting traditional recurves and other bows, I remembered ho much I'd loved my Red Bear all fiberglass, rubber handle, left &/or right hand recurve as a youth.
> So I got all heated up, settled on being obsessed with it forever, lol, and looked and looked and lost bids on vintage bows on Ebay etc. and so on until I just looked at my bank acct., looked at the $120 Greatree Goshawk, and ordered it, sort of liking it was brand new _and_ I wouldn't lose the auction...
> NOW I find I've got a few hundred headed my way the wife will let me spend instead of just save toward her (I mean our) wee camper, AND come to find out I'm withing an hour drive of a store that sells _nothing but_ traditional bows, mostly recurves, LOL. Imagine how hard it will be not to drive over there! I don't know if you can fire there, and the bows look unstrung, but I'm sure they'll string several and let you feel them without letting go... I'll definitely buy nice arrows before spending so much I can't, lol.
> Thanks for all the advice, including the last comment about the matched feel aspect.


Jeff, 
Bows are like potato chips... it's hard to stop at one or two......dozen. I would suggest that you DO go there to handle and shoot as many different bows as possible. Everyone develops their own preferred "feel" ... wide grip, narrow grip, high\medium\low wrist grip, Overall bow length, R\D longbow, recurve, yada yada... Eventually you will develop a "preference" for a certain "feel".


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## ripforce (Feb 15, 2010)

It pretty much is human nature now days," the more I spend the better the product is and it makes me feel good for a while" Check out any sport now days golf, bowling, fishing etc there are always going to be people that are obsessed with buying the latest and the most expensive product that they can there hands on, does it make them any better, usually not but they feel good about it, and it gives them something to talk about! The reason I got into Trad shooting was that it was simple and challenging, I like to believe that I became a better archer because of a lot of hard work and dedication to learning the proper form to repeat shots and not how much I spent on my equipment!


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

rip, gents -

Ever get a flash back? I recall when I was a kid growing up with archery, any night at the range, you knew who was there, just by the bows on the racks. (Sometimes you remembered the bows and not the guy's name...) When a "regular" got a new bow it was a big deal, even though sometimes it worked and sometimes not. 

Fast-forward - these days, we see the compound boys needing the latest and greatest bow, release, scope (usually not arrows) every year. Oddly enough, with the high priced trad "custom" and even factory bows, seems like some trad guys also need the latest and greatest - the holy grail of bows. That's cool, and I'm not one to accuse anybody of having too many bows, just ask my wife .. , I just gave up on the idea of a needing a giving bow to improve my shooting. 

Viper1 out.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Marketing sure works in archery. There are several bows that I would love to own, so I'm far from immune.......maybe someday.


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## flycaster (Jul 28, 2008)

Viper1 said:


> rip, gents -
> 
> Ever get a flash back? I recall when I was a kid growing up with archery, any night at the range, you knew who was there, just by the bows on the racks. (Sometimes you remembered the bows and not the guy's name...) When a "regular" got a new bow it was a big deal, even though sometimes it worked and sometimes not.
> 
> ...


Anthony- good point, as usual. But there is something so, well, SEXY- about the curves of a trad bow. "American Rifleman" has a report this month on the latest razzle-dazzle crossbow. Appropriately in a gun mag, I think! And it's just not appealing to me. Same with the weird looking wheel and cam arrow launchers (not bows?) that I pass by on cable TV. String up my recurve, and it looks so nice! So I can't get one micron groups at 50 miles. It makes me happy. Eating one tater chip leads to another, in no small part because the second chip is way cheaper than a custom bow!

Chuck

Chuck


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

I like to compare and contrast with music. I play acoustic guitar, and I think I'm not bad at it. I went to a local luthier (a fellow who hand makes guitars) who is also a fantastic player. He showed me (and let me play) some of his hand made guitars as well as some "mass-produced" guitars (not cheap Chinese garbage, though). He explained the difference between solid wood and ply-wood bodies (solid wood gives you a warmer tone while ply-wood gives more durability). When he played, I could really tell the difference, but not when I played.

He explained that there is not much difference in performance for an average player like me. Like Viper said, some of the qualities the big-name bowyers build into their bows can only be exploited by expert archers. I went with a mid-priced, factory manufactured guitar, and it has served me well for over 15 years. I still dream of buying a Martin (C.F. Martin of Nazareth, PA), and I just might, some day. But until then, I'm quite satisfied with my current instrument.

Same goes for my bow. I'm not an expert archer, and so I really won't get any advantage out of top of the line equipment. Even most of the entry-level equipment is of decent, durable quality. For a recreational archer, going with a "mid-priced" rig will serve you just fine. I shoot a mid-priced, factory manufactured bow, and it has served me well. I still dream of buying a Martin (Martin Archer of Walla Walla, WA), and I just might, some day. But until then, I'm quite satisfied with my current bow.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Most of the time you are paying premium price for the exotic woods and the looks. I'm primarily a lover of Howard Hill longbows base price is 500 as Keegan said but compared to other Custom bowyers the price is way below the others by far. Try walking away from Morrison with a bow priced at 500, you'll be lucky if you could find Morrison limbs at that price. 
You can also just cut down a tree limb and build yourself a selfbow for pennies. I've build a couple, they broke so I tend to stay with my Hills, they take a beating, they shoot where I point them and they'll last as long as I can still pull them. For me at 500 they are the steal of the Custom shops.
Now as far as super deals, I'll stick with longbows because that's what I love, I put together a 23" Hoyt Excel ILF riser 180.00 with a pair of Sky ILF longbow limbs 400.00. At 580.00 this bow is the most accurate tool I have ever shot.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

Bow fit to the shooter and shooter ability is most important in general. Though a good quality piece of equipment is usually a better choice,that too has limitations.

I know a guy who is a good traditional shooter who has made probably a dozen selfbows for himself. Out of those he has his favorite,with which he is very accurate. Tucked away in his closet is a beautiful, Black Widow that he refers to as a six hundred dollar stick that he has no use for because he just can't shoot it. He's had it for years and never shot much at all.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

And I bet there are probably 1000 or more shooters that would shoot that BW in the closet real good as well.


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## Bobman (Dec 18, 2004)

I must really be getting old I had no idea that a stick bow could cost $5-600 much less $1200.00. I shoot A Quillian canebrake and a Quillian red elm longhunter reflex deflex longbow, I dont think I paid $250.00 for either one of them and I can shoot them well enough to kill deer with ease.

Mr. Quillian was a local boyer down here about 20 miles from where I live and a real nice man.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Bobman said:


> I must really be getting old I had no idea that a stick bow could cost $5-600 much less $1200.00. I shoot A Quillian canebrake and a Quillian red elm longhunter reflex deflex longbow, I dont think I paid $250.00 for either one of them and I can shoot them well enough to kill deer with ease.
> 
> Mr. Quillian was a local boyer down here about 20 miles from where I live and a real nice man.


 I've a canebrake too.... but it weren't no $250 :grin:... you must really be old.... :grin:

Much Aloha...  :beer:


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

I agree with Flint hills Tex, you can pay 150 bucks for a guitar and you dont get much, but if you go up in price a little you get a good guitar.
But, if you step up and pay 3x the amount for the higher dollar guitar.....you're paying for a lot of cosmetics and the extra quality you pay for aint going to matter to me as a rhythm player. The 400 dollar Alvarez will work just fine.
To me it's the same with bows......unless you're Eric Clapton or Vince Gill.:teeth:


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## flycaster (Jul 28, 2008)

Curve1 said:


> To me it's the same with bows......unless you're Eric Clapton or Vince Gill.:teeth:


Clapton and Gill shoot bows??? Just kidding.

Chuck


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

I was refering to gitfiddle playing:teeth:
If I could play like either one of them I could buy any bow I wanted.......but, I'd rather have Vince's voice. LOL.


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

To be honest, though, there is one aspect that plays a great role in our decision to buy a bow or not, and it has nothing to do with performance: LOOKS

Yes, the bow must feel good to shoot, it shouldn't stack or give me too much hand shock, etc. But never underestimate aesthetics! The sweetest shootin' bow will not satisfy you if you don't like its looks. Fortunately, even the factory manufactured, middle-priced segment offers nice looking bows in a myriad of styles, so there's something for almost everybody out there.


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## Bobman (Dec 18, 2004)

rattus58 said:


> I've a canebrake too.... but it weren't no $250 :grin:... you must really be old.... :grin:
> 
> Much Aloha...  :beer:


Maybe we locals got a discount I'm pretty sure I paid around $250.00 a piece for them but I use to hang around in Quillians indoor range and BS with him a lot. He was a real nice guy and taught me a few things. Get one of his longbows if you get a chance they are real nice.

Some days I do feel really old though....


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Bobman said:


> Maybe we locals got a discount I'm pretty sure I paid around $250.00 a piece for them but I use to hang around in Quillians indoor range and BS with him a lot. He was a real nice guy and taught me a few things. Get one of his longbows if you get a chance they are real nice.
> 
> Some days I do feel really old though....


I wish I had actually met the man. I've talked to him on the phone and can still hear his voice even.... I've great love for this bow and it's speed. The only thing about MY canebrake is the noise which was one of the things I called Dan about. By the way, the price of MY BOW was the right price.... :grin:

Much Aloha... :beer:


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

if i does'nt cost over $1500 it will never shoot up to your potential, huh. is'nt that why we buy $900-$2000 customs? not to mention we can pass it down for genations. after all look at these old Bears that are going for $250-$500 when they cost $59.95 new. obviously they shoot better now than when they were new in the 50s & 60s.


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

BTW, Jeff, I wanted to switch from LH to RH this year, since I'm right eye dominant. My LH bow is a Tradtech Pinnacle II. Since I wasn't sure whether or not I'd be successful and stick with RH, I didn't want to invest a lot of money in a new bow, so I bought a Samick Deermaster for € 150.00. As far as I can tell, it is the same bow (or pretty close) to the GT Goshawk (which is also manufactured by Samick). I love the bow, and it performs just fine. Despite the switch, I achieved the same degree of accuracy within a few months time, so I think you're gonna do fine with your purchase. 

Invest in some good arrows. I've converted to carbon for more accuracy, and I bought some Easton Powerflight shafts, at $3 for a bare shaft, $5 with feathers and Saunder's Combo points, they won't break the bank.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

LongStick64 said:


> And I bet there are probably 1000 or more shooters that would shoot that BW in the closet real good as well.


Yep,I'm sure there are plenty who would pay what he paid new right now.Don't know why he doesn't just sell it. He's only seventy four years young and a southpaw to boot. All his sons and grandchildren are right handed. Go figure.


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