# Tell Yardage??



## panther08 (Jan 7, 2008)

i never tell what i shot a target for and what speed my bow is really shootin. There are people out there that can figure out what u shot a target for by what your speed is and then u tell them a targets yardge a couple of times and there goin to out shoot u. I have seen this before and have learned from my mistakes. I will never tell anyone what i shot a target for or my bows speed.


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## LimbsaverKeenan (Dec 2, 2008)

NCMikey said:


> Ok your at a big tournament like an ASA. You shoot a target for 37 yards and hit the 12. When your walking back one of the shooters in your group ask what did you shoot the target for? Would you tell him you shot it for 37 yard or would you tell him the wrong yardage to get in his head and take him out of his game?


if your a good shot you shouldnt have to worry about getting in his head.:darkbeer:


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## djkillaz (Apr 14, 2005)

NCMikey said:


> Ok your at a big tournament like an ASA. You shoot a target for 37 yards and hit the 12. When your walking back one of the shooters in your group ask what did you shoot the target for? Would you tell him you shot it for 37 yard or would you tell him the wrong yardage to get in his head and take him out of his game?


not suppsed to discuss yardage in asa any ways. and no.. dont tell them... they cant figure out the yardage and you can. suggest they start practicing judging.....


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

Depends on the group honestly. If it's a bunch of good folks who have been positive and encouraging of one another I'll share what I shot the target for after we've all shot it. If somebody acts like a jerk I'm not going to go out of my way to be nice.


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## Kadob62 (May 1, 2009)

JayMc said:


> Depends on the group honestly. If it's a bunch of good folks who have been positive and encouraging of one another I'll share what I shot the target for after we've all shot it. If somebody acts like a jerk I'm not going to go out of my way to be nice.



Good Answer!!!!!!


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## tazhunter0 (Jun 21, 2006)

JayMc said:


> Depends on the group honestly. If it's a bunch of good folks who have been positive and encouraging of one another I'll share what I shot the target for after we've all shot it. If somebody acts like a jerk I'm not going to go out of my way to be nice.



That is a very good answer!!!
CC


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## tazhunter0 (Jun 21, 2006)

panther08 said:


> i never tell what i shot a target for and what speed my bow is really shootin. There are people out there that can figure out what u shot a target for by what your speed is and then u tell them a targets yardge a couple of times and there goin to out shoot u. I have seen this before and have learned from my mistakes. I will never tell anyone what i shot a target for or my bows speed.


What do you have to hide? Not shooting the legal limit?? Just wondering.
CC


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## Featherlight37 (May 7, 2009)

hes not hiding anything.. like he said people can figure out what he shot a target for by knowing the speed of his bow.. then if he shoots before them then they know what the yardage is


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## smurphy (Feb 22, 2007)

When I get asked I usually say longer than 2 yards and shorter than 100


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

Featherlight37 said:


> hes not hiding anything.. like he said people can figure out what he shot a target for by knowing the speed of his bow.. then if he shoots before them then they know what the yardage is


Yea Right...


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

I never have had anyone not tell me or have I not told them. Haven't never been beat by someone in my group because I told them what I shot a target for after everyone had shot. I think sometimes people get a little over paranoide(Spelling?) about people out to get them or cheat them.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> never tell what i shot a target for and what speed my bow is really shootin. There are people out there that can figure out what u shot a target for by what your speed is and then u tell them a targets yardge a couple of times and there goin to out shoot u. I have seen this before and have learned from my mistakes. I will never tell anyone what i shot a target for or my bows speed.


 Highly unlikely unless they were carrying a stop watch that they could do this since they would have to have the time down to 100's of a second to accomplish this plus have a calculator with them.


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## MushroomHound (Aug 18, 2005)

Wow... I'll tell what I shot at but then again, I shoot for turkeys...


Cash prize might be different..


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

Spotshooter2 said:


> Highly unlikely unless they were carrying a stop watch that they could do this since they would have to have the time down to 100's of a second to accomplish this plus have a calculator with them.


If you train your ears you can hear it.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

and you of course can tell 1/10's or less of a second . Dont think so.


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

Spotshooter2 said:


> and you of course can tell 1/10's or less of a second . Dont think so.


It's by no means an exact science, but sometimes a target looks one distance then sounds closer or farther. It's just one more data point to use when judging yardage. When you're looking at a target and can't decide if it's 32 or 33yds the sound is useless, but when the lighting is bad and you can see anything from 30 to 38yds it can definitely makes a difference.


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## Lonestar63 (Mar 19, 2007)

JayMc said:


> It's by no means an exact science, but sometimes a target looks one distance then sounds closer or farther. It's just one more data point to use when judging yardage. When you're looking at a target and can't decide if it's 32 or 33yds the sound is useless, but when the lighting is bad and you can see anything from 30 to 38yds it can definitely makes a difference.


Good answer.

Also when they take the ground away, it's definately an advantage to listen to the guys shooting.

2 weeks ago at a shoot, had the climbing bear across a creek, so ground judging was out. I sight judge anyway, but i was up first and was unfamiliar with this target so i couldn't really sight judge him, and as i said, the ground was taken away. Shot a nickel on him high.  That one shot cost me making the shoot down.

Bad luck for me to have that target first. If i had been the 2nd or 3d shooter, i would have shot him for less than i did, based on how long it took the arrows to get there. It does make a difference.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

Ok , just an example , speed of bow is 280 and you judged the target at 38 yards and it was actually 32 . So if it actually was 38 yards the time would have been .407 to cover that distance but if it was actually 32 yards it would have taken .343 time to cover that distance and you can tell the difference in time of 
.06. You will never convince me of this.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

Telling or comparing yardage after a shot is within the rules and shouldn't be a problem. If you think its giving up some advantage, you're probably thinking to much to begin with. For one thing established 3D shooters come to yardage conclusions in differing ways, but the one thing consistant 3D winners have in common is Target Knowledge. 
If someone asks I will share. Or sometimes I will ask if they shot that for (___) yards. Once the shot is done it's score time anyway. The best shooters out there are generally the most helpful.


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

Spotshooter2 said:


> Ok , just an example , speed of bow is 280 and you judged the target at 38 yards and it was actually 32 . So if it actually was 38 yards the time would have been .407 to cover that distance but if it was actually 32 yards it would have taken .343 time to cover that distance and you can tell the difference in time of
> .06. You will never convince me of this.


Set up two targets in line with each other, one 32yards and the other 38, get a shooting partiner and stand behind them facing the targets with your eyes closed, let them shoot a few arrows at both targets, I'll bet you'll hear the differance. It's not only the time lapse you hear, you also hear the volume of sound the arrow makes when it hits the target.


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## proelitext2000 (May 26, 2009)

Spotshooter2 said:


> Ok , just an example , speed of bow is 280 and you judged the target at 38 yards and it was actually 32 . So if it actually was 38 yards the time would have been .407 to cover that distance but if it was actually 32 yards it would have taken .343 time to cover that distance and you can tell the difference in time of
> .06. You will never convince me of this.


you can def. get a pretty good estimate on what a target is by listening to the guys shots in front of you if you do it enough..you can tell what something around 20 yards sounds like and 30 and so on. its up to you to narrow it down to the final yard or 2


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Wow! There are ALOT of guys that either A: Haven't been shooting 3D very long.
B: Don't pay close attention.
C: Don't care.
D: Don't want to use every tool to succeed. 

Listening to the arrow land isn't an exact science. BUT it is definitley a tool to help you come to a confident number. If you all get to a stake and have a peek at the medium deer target your going to get a 'feel' for the yards. You know its might be low 40's, maybe 42. Your up third to shoot and you hear the 1st guy shoot. "Wow" you say to yourself. "That got there quick!" Then #2 shoots. "Hmmmmmmm, might be closer to 38 yards!?" Then your up to bat and you take a good look. You look close to the ground. Then some trees and you peg that deer at 37. 
Listening to the other arrows is just a 'seasoning' to get to the right, confident number your gonna shoot it for. You've shot your bow a million times in the yard. You know it takes the arrow longer to get there at 50 than 40. Why not use that to help you on the range? IT won't tell you the yards exactly, but it migh help turn an 8 into a 10. 
YMMV.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

First, why lie about how you judged a target? I don't know about the guys you shoot with, but it wouldn't get into the head of anybody I shoot with. Lying is a bad habit to get into and a tough one to get out of.

Second, I've compared yardage after a target that I shot a 12 on and another guy shot a 12 on and we both shot it for different distances. Point being that what's 32 yards for you might very well be 30 yards for someone else.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

Not buying that anyones hearing is sensitive enough to tell up to ten yards difference on impact where the time difference is around 1/10 of a second.


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## Bowjoe1972 (Oct 29, 2008)

another thing not everyone judges the same way out of the 5 people I shoot with 2 or 3 see and judge diffrent and they set their bows to it alot of times my buddie Dennis judges his targets 3 yards heavy so he sets his yardage 2 to 3 yards heavy to compensate for this.. If were shooting for fun or with new shooters I will tell them no problem but in a comp I wont till everyone is done and someone else brings it up...


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## XFR_Jay (Apr 10, 2009)

I shoot with my girlfriends step dad, he got me into the whole sport and the first 3d I went to he would tell me what he shot for on the first 15 targets, the second 15 I would guess and tell him what I thought and he would just let me know if I was close or not. Now we compare after the shots have been made. I agree with listening to the time it takes for the arrow to get there. 20-30 yards I'm not good at hearing but when we get to the targets that are closer to 40 yards I can definitely hear that.


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## BigBucks125 (Jun 22, 2006)

cath8r said:


> Wow! There are ALOT of guys that either A: Haven't been shooting 3D very long.
> B: Don't pay close attention.
> C: Don't care.
> D: Don't want to use every tool to succeed.
> ...



Good post:darkbeer:...that's some good info right there. I like "B. Don't pay close attention." You gotta pay attention on the range. I'm sure some people have different methods of listening to an arrow. I feel that knowing the speed or approximate speed of a bow helps when listening to an arrow...a 300 fps bow won't count the same as a 325 fps bow.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Absolutely, 20-30 is too close. Past that, your brain will pick up the difference of 2-3 yards. It will help you come up with a number, not give you a number. That little extra time gap will be a piece to the puzzle, not a key. 
These guys that are so adamant that it can't be done haven't been shooting for very long. Why else would one of the pros (Richard Leftwhich) actually put out that CD where it is just arows hitting the target bags from the different yardages? People use that kind of info. Its not like zapping a target with a rangefinder... just a clue.
How many times have you miss-judged a target and you were surpirised with how quick or long it took the arrow to get there? If you've shot 3D more than once, you know what I'm talking about. Your brain is more powerful than you think.


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## Lonestar63 (Mar 19, 2007)

Spotshooter2 said:


> Not buying that anyones hearing is sensitive enough to tell up to ten yards difference on impact where the time difference is around 1/10 of a second.


We get it, because you keep telling us that what we're doing can't be done.

At this point, i don't believe anyone is trying to convince you anymore.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Yeah Lonestar, what part of 'spotshooter2' don't we get? 
I think he's done listening.
At 20 yards it always sounds the same.


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## Lonestar63 (Mar 19, 2007)

cath8r said:


> Yeah Lonestar, what part of 'spotshooter2' don't we get?
> I think he's done listening.*
> At 20 yards it always sounds the same.*




:lol:


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

You guys keep trying to convince yourself you can hear the difference but I will keep calling BS.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Good for you!


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

I guess we will just agree to disagree on this subject. If you feel it works for you , good for you. As long as we are out there shooting is the most important thing anyway , so good luck to everyone at their next shoot


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

Spotshooter2 said:


> You guys keep trying to convince yourself you can hear the difference but I will keep calling BS.


I know of a certain Hoyt pro that uses this method and is pretty darn good at it. Seen it done in pro/ams.

This method has merit, it can help you get a rough idea.

As for the original post, no I don't share my numbers. My yardage for one is never the same as anyone else. Two if I wanted to share I would just leave my hider open where they could look. And I never share exact speed. But I also shoot black knocks an vanes.


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

Spotshooter2 said:


> You guys keep trying to convince yourself you can hear the difference but I will keep calling BS.


I'm with ya, but maybe that means I don't care or don't want to succeed. If I can't look at the target and make a pretty close guess, then I haven't practiced sight ranging enough. No hearing aid, blindfolded, Bruce Lee target senses are going to help me figure out the range any better than I can by just looking at it.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Spotshooter2 said:


> Not buying that anyones hearing is sensitive enough to tell up to ten yards difference on impact where the time difference is around 1/10 of a second.


I've never thought to use the sound to figure yardage, but...

For me, 10 yards sounds a whole lot different than 20 yards, which sounds significantly different than 30 yards. Not a counting thing. (For me) it's a rhythm thing. At 10 yards I can barely hear a distinct separate impact. At 20, it's quite distinct. At 30 yards, I begin waiting for it to hit.

However, as the distance gets longer, and the arrrow's slowing down, the differences in time will get proportionally smaller.

From 40 to 60 yards, I don't have much of a clue. They all take forever to get there, to me...

So, while I can't say where the real thresholds are as far as what's really useful, it would seem pretty obvious that the ability to judge distance based on delay would be highly variable, diminishing with distance. Even if you know the speed of the bow, can you internalize that into knowing how that affects the cadence of the snap/thud? Plus, it's not like that arrow is going a constant speed. It's slowing down. The faster it's going, the faster it's slowing. The less mass it has, the more a given amount of drag is going to slow it down. The more drag it has, the faster it slows down. Not saying it can't be done, but it would take a lot of training, I would think, yield a rough estimate, and if you're not familiar with a particular setup, in terms of not only speed, but decelleration characteristics, it would probably be not that reliable. But, as a tool in a bag of tools, seems reasonable.

Then there's that human factor. I'm sure many people are much better at it than others....


However, it would seem that for _most_ instances, it would be most useful in double-checking against scenarios that have optical illusions that would otherwise screw up normal vision, that would otherwise tend to serve far more reliably. Abnormal-sized targets, lack of ground/objects between the shooter and the target, funny lighting, etc. If it looks like 30, but the sound reminds you of 50, well... At the very least you should re-think what you're looking at.

But, it is interesting to talk about...

I think it's fine to tell yardage after the shoot. I'm grateful to those who help me learn, and teaching is a great way to learn in itself. But, before the shot, if you use somebody else to get yardage, or if you're helping them determine yardage, who's really making the shot?


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## Hittingguru (Oct 1, 2004)

I haven't been around 3D for too long, so I'm always listening and learning. As far as exchanging distances, I will if the guys with me are not jerks and playing mind games. So far at bigger IBO shoots, I haven't been pared with any jerks. Not sure if that is luck, or just the nature of the age of the class.

Let me just say this about listening to the shot and length of time it takes to get to the target. Two years ago I am at the Worlds in a group of 5. One of the shooters is very well known and usually finishes in the top 5 every year in my class (I did the research). We get to the first stake, and I drew first shooting position. I look at the deer, decide to shoot it for 33 yds, and get a 10. This gentleman, who shoots second, gets to the stake, looks at the deer, looks at my bow, looks at the deer again. He shoots and gets an 11. Now all 3 others shoot. When we get out of ear shot of the following group, the guy turns to me and says, "your bow isn't shooting anywhere near 280 fps, is it?" I answered, " as a matter of fact, I'm shooting around 260". He said he thought so, because he looked at the deer and came up with 32 yds, but it took too long for my arrow to get there for it to be 32 yds (shooting 280). 

He is an old timer, and very good at listening, shooting, and since then, I too, listen to shot distance. It may only help me one time, but I'll take it.

Case in point- this past years Worlds. We were zigzagging from stake to target back to next stake. When we got backed up, I could hear the shot taken from the target I just left and right after that the shot on the target I was going to. Since the time laps was almost identical, I had the hunch that the two targets were set almost the same distance away. I got a 10 on the first one and shot for 42 yds. Got a 10 on the second for 40 yds. When the eyes are going, you got to use all of your wits and senses, even if you're half sensless and half witted


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## rocklocker2 (Feb 12, 2007)

*tell?*

I shoot with a guy who is color blind and a rookie.i will tell him if i know hes way off on his guess cause its easier than helping him look for arrows.if he says 30?and i know its farther i tell him to use his yonder pin.that is till he finally beats me then he will be on his own.when i scout in the woods i carry range finder and practice.this year my Iron Mace is ranked up and has a single pin set at 30 yds and 50 yds dont scare me none.it shoots very flat


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