# Feedback on new hoyt Faktor and Epic improvements on shooting?



## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Just want to know what made any difference on your shooting?


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Doubt they will make any difference. There may be the new shiny factor, but if anybody was shooting their predecessors and had a noticably improvement, it would be interesting to hear.


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

There was a Hoyt rep demoing stuff at our local shop. I picked up the Faktor and the fancy shmancy bamboo limbs and blasted a few. Did NOT notice any difference between that and my 11 year old Hoyt Matrix and $329 MK Inpers limbs that would make we want to through down $1600-1700 for the pair on just riser and limbs alone. 

In fact someone asked me if he were to upgrade from his eclipse, what would I suggest? I said find a used GMX. Way less expensive than the new stuff and the market will be FLOODED with people dumping their GMX's for "Teh Shiny!!!"


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

airwolfipsc said:


> Just want to know what made any difference on your shooting?


I'll let you know when my HP version arrives.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

If my chrono is still functional, I'll provide you with some numbers and maybe some high speed videos if applicable.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

After I saw the Epik, it looked promising enough that I wanted to try one and put down my two MKX10s that I swear by. With that being said, I had always wanted to give the GMX a honest try but after they made the GMX have that straighter flex-tuned geometry, I put that idea aside. When the Epik came out and they advertised an ILF original Earl Hoyt Geometry riser, I thought this was it. If you ask any of those who know me in real life, they can attest that I am very much _not_ a Hoyt person and very loyal to the korean equipment in terms of superior QC and quality as well as speed (insert Quattros blowing up joke here.) So this will be from the perspective of someone who looks at Hoyt items with a critical eye. I've been shooting the Epik about 4 days a week since the riser has been released and here are my impressions. 

- Right out of the box, the riser is definitely not shoot-able and will require an experienced person to set everything up. 
- There was 1 noticable machining defect on the upper edge of the riser as well as lots of imperfections in the cut-outs that are non-existent with my MKX10. 
Now the important thing here is that it doesn't take away from the performance of the riser but for me, shelling out $729 for a handle I don't expect such blatant machining imperfections that I often hear about with Hoyt products. 
- The grip near the ledge really stuck out and required sanding. (This seems to be the case with all Faktors and Epiks.)
- The riser is less deflexed than the MKX10. I usually like a really deflexed smooth and stable shooting riser but I didn't mind the slightly livelier shot of the Epik compared to the MKX10. I think at first it did cross my mind as being a little bit harsh but I got used to it. 
- It look a lot of fiddling to the those new alignment Z-axis buttons to sit flush with the angle of the limb. (I took out all the shims in the 4 buttons since my EX Primes didn't need any adjustment.) Also, the left to right alignment shims come in different thicknesses even though they advertise all shims being .005in thick. 




















Now for after I've shot it extensively for a month...
- I've grown to like how it shoots and its a nice shooting riser. It has earned a place next to my MKX10s. I am definitely happy with my purchase and would even consider getting a second one for a backup. 
- Compared to the GMX, it shoots a little bit stiffer which I suspect is from the wider riser design. 
- A few of my high level friends who are loyal Hoyt shooters (not sponsored) commented that the grip on the Epik is finally pretty decent. 
- The new floating tiller bolts and pocket keeps your limbs from getting any real wear marks which I'm pleased with. 
- I found that my groups stayed the same between my MKX10 and my Epik. I think when I take it to outdoor season is when I will really be able to tell. The riser does shoot about 2fps faster than my MKX10 from the straighter geometry. 












Bonus:
- The hoyt rep also swung by and I got to test shoot the Faktor with the Carbon-boos and I can really appreciate how nice the Carbon-boo X-tours feel. I think its quite snappy and fast and it impressed me enough that I'd be willing to shoot them if I got them for the right price. $789 is quite a steep price for a pair. I think the limbs compared to my EX Primes and Veracitys have a little more pre-load in the front and smoother in the back but overall more linear and smooth than the Quattros. They also don't have that extra recurve that the Quattros had on the tips that traded more speed for stability.

I know Arsi here on the forums will be getting a pair of bamboo X-tours so maybe he will be able to give some more direct comparisons to his Wiawis foams and Quattros when he gets those running.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Well, I guess that does it for the review. With ample objective information.


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Excellent write up. Yeah since I own the Prodigy I really like the 2 axis limb adjustment and vertitune plates on these new hoyt risers. Im intrigue about the thicker riser that helps torque the bow. I know I kinda like the modular weights on the faktor since most pro shooter likes the balance of the bow with an aws modular node to add weight to the riser. The Faktor modular weight adapted that idea. I have tried shooting with modulars on and the sight definitely quited down a bit and was solid hold on the 10ring.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

fango0000 said:


> I know Arsi here on the forums will be getting a pair of bamboo X-tours so maybe he will be able to give some more direct comparisons to his Wiawis foams and Quattros when he gets those running.


I'm also waiting for the NS limbs to come out. If the NS limbs are comparable in price to the bamboo limbs, I will budget to buy both. If the NS limbs are outlandishly overpriced, I will budget to only get the bamboo.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Arsi said:


> I'm also waiting for the NS limbs to come out. If the NS limbs are comparable in price to the bamboo limbs, I will budget to buy both. If the NS limbs are outlandishly overpriced, I will budget to only get the bamboo.


Haha yeah, I'm waiting for the NS limbs as well. After shooting most of the high end limbs, I've come to prefer the feel of wood core limbs over foam cores in terms of draw and shot feel. I'm hoping maybe the graphene foam cores will impress me . If only Win&Win made bamboo core limbs...


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

I'm interested to hear about the NS limbs. They market this revolutionary graphene core. Fascinating seeing how graphene costs about $100 *per gram.*


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## Hoogie2004 (Jun 7, 2014)

Have some shooters at my local club that are shooting the new Faktor with the X-tour bamboo. They love it, and especially the limbs seem a bit better / nicer that the quattro's were.
But... all of the Faktor's required a lot of adjustment after taking it out of the box to get it shooting nice and quiet. One member even had to take his apart to remove a lot of machining-residue from the threaded holes and limb bolt fittings... 

Then, I currently have the same setup the other guys had before (Prodigy <insert version here> with Quattro's) and i'm waiting for an Epik in the shop to try. I liked my old Formula RX better then the Prodigy XT I have, so i'm hoping the Epik gives that old trusty feel the RX always gave me. If I like the Epik, it is going to be combined with the Uukha VX1000 xCurves


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## ShooterPhill (Feb 23, 2015)

rjbishop said:


> I'm interested to hear about the NS limbs. They market this revolutionary graphene core. Fascinating seeing how graphene costs about $100 *per gram.*


I believe the NS limbs use graphene *flakes* in a foam matrix, so the amount of actual graphene is probably pretty minimal. I think I read somewhere here that according to a Win rep, the upshot of using graphene in the foam is that the limbs have the "feel" and performance of wood core while retaining the consistency and durability of a foam core.


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## vlesiv (Oct 20, 2013)

Arsi, Fango0000, so, have you guys been able to compare x-tours and NS? Share your thoughts and impression? Thanks 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

vlesiv said:


> Arsi, Fango0000, so, have you guys been able to compare x-tours and NS? Share your thoughts and impression? Thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I have been shooting 46# WiaWis One Foams on a GMX for the past year. I drew back 40# NS on a TFT, 36# X-Tours mounted on an Epik, 44# NS on a GMX, 44# X-Tours on a Faktor, and I think 44# NS on a TFT. I have not shot any of them. But just on draw back, it made me buy a second pair of 46# WiaWis limbs. 

A popular argument is that the money-maker is on shot reaction, not the draw. Thats probably correct. But upon evaluation of my shooting and my existing gears performance, I am opting to build another copy of my current setup first before throwing money down on any new gear. The secondary reason is I am in the process of switching to X10s. After a stellar indoor performance with them, I am having difficulties getting them to shoot well outdoor. But thats a different story that is not suited for the purposes of this thread.


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## Archery30 (Jan 15, 2016)

I currently shoot 25' prodigy rx with 44lb long quattro Wood limbs. My draw length is 29" and my poundage on the fingers is 47lbs.

I have been curious about the new hoyt gadgets lately, but at Arizona cup I was able to actually test someone elses limbs, before I bought them, to see if there is any difference in feel or performance. I was fortunate enough to come across someone with the exact same length bow who was nice enough to let me plug his limbs into my bow and shoot them.
He had the exact same length Long limbs, that were 44lbs, but except they were the Brand New Bamboo limbs on the X-Tours. 

My initial hypothesis was that the bamboo X-Tour limbs would be faster, as Hoyt claimed were faster than their foam, and the foam limbs are exact same as Quattro foam limbs. And if that is the case the Bamboo X-Tour limbs would in fact be faster than the Quattro Wood limbs. 

For my test I did not Change anything on my bows settings EXCEPT plugging in the x-tour limbs. When I strung up the bow, I had the exact same brace height and tiller settings. 
Everything was identical, and I was anticipating that I would have to move my sight up to correct for shots being higher on the target due to increased speed. 

When I actually shot them, they reacted exactly the same as my quattro wood limbs - except for the fact that my arrows shot low. I had to move my sight down several turns to get them to group in the center compared to the sight marking I had with the exact same length and poundage with my 44lb long quattro limbs pulling at 47lbs. 

Does this mean that they are not as fast as they were marketed to be?
Are there actually supposed to be substantial differences in the performance of the limbs?
Is this just the same quattro limb with different 'bamboo' core, slapped on with different stickers?
Where else can I spend my non-existant money? : )

I am not sure why I would spend top dollar on a set of limbs that made no improvement in performance from an already good performing limb. 
I believe the X-Tours are good limbs. I think the quattros were the best limbs I have shot thus far, but the new hoyt offering made no difference in shot performance to my bow setup. There was no difference in shot reaction either. 

Perhaps there were other factors to tinker with on my bow, like tightening the tiller bolts a turn or 2, but that is not something I would have done at a tournament on practice day. 
Happy with the performance of my quattro limbs and prodigy Rx at the moment, end of story... and don't deem it necessary to upgrade at this time.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

StarDog said:


> There was a Hoyt rep demoing stuff at our local shop. I picked up the Faktor and the fancy shmancy bamboo limbs and blasted a few. Did NOT notice any difference between that and my 11 year old Hoyt Matrix and $329 MK Inpers limbs



EPIC Dunning–Kruger effect stuff right there.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

>--gt--> said:


> EPIC Dunning–Kruger effect stuff right there.


More like everyday standard Archery Talk stuff.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Wow the condescension...

StarDog, unfortunately you're among the unwashed who lack the sophistication and pedigree to appreciate such things.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

>--gt--> said:


> EPIC Dunning–Kruger effect stuff right there.


GT, stick to archery. Your mis-analysis is EPIC! Nothing StarDog posts even hints at illusory superiority... or wait... were you referring to yourself? That makes much more sense. Very astute in that case.

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which low-ability individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability as much higher than it really is. Psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive incapacity, on the part of those with low ability, to recognize their ineptitude and evaluate their competence accurately.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

*OH Snap.....*


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

bobnikon said:


> GT, stick to archery. Your mis-analysis is EPIC! Nothing StarDog posts even hints at illusory superiority... or wait... were you referring to yourself? That makes much more sense. Very astute in that case.
> 
> The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which low-ability individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability as much higher than it really is. Psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive incapacity, on the part of those with low ability, to recognize their ineptitude and evaluate their competence accurately.


Nice cut-and-paste straight out of Wikipedia there. You should at least attribute the quote.

I'm pretty sure the point >--gt--> (and I) are trying to make is that, although they like to think that they do, many people simply do not possess the skill level to make a valid evaluation of the quality level of technical equipment. 

Think about it. >--gt--> probably had something to do with the design of that particular Hoyt product. StarDog's post can be interpreted as an unwarranted insult to him. To call his work "fancy shmancy" ,and posting a snap evaluation based only on "blasting a few" does him and Hoyt an injustice.

Admittedly, >--gt-->'s comment could have been more tactful. But that's not his style.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Stash said:


> Nice cut-and-paste straight out of Wikipedia there. You should at least attribute the quote.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the point >--gt--> (and I) are trying to make is that, although they like to think that they do, many people simply do not possess the skill level to make a valid evaluation of the quality level of technical equipment.
> 
> ...


Stash, get a grip. At no point did StarDog say that the gear wasn't any good. Read it again. Did NOT notice any difference. Didn't say it was a pile of steaming dung, she said she did not notice any difference. I dont care a whit if GT had his feelings hurt. His responses to people are rarely appropriate. He is a terrible spokesperson for the sport (and I will qualify that to say, he is a terrible spokesperson on this forum). I don't care what he does other places, his deportment on here is terrible. *His style or lack thereof DOES NOT get him a free pass.*

For you to defend him, even if I didn't attribute my wiki cut and paste, does that mean you agree with his assessment of StarDog? Who besides StarDog can judge whether the gear made a difference to her? I guess you or GT need to attend every time someone tries the gear to let us know if we like it?

If GT is so insecure that any of us not agreeing that his every design, thought, and post is a unicorn that farts rainbows, is going to make him resort to his usual responses, then I would think Hoyt would pursue a gag order on him.

So, to wrap it up, sorry my lack of attribution offends your scholastic sensibilities. Sorry GT has skin thinner than my 95 year old grandmother. Sorry StarDog didn't immediately rush out and buy the rig. Sorry I didn't either. Sorry I am also not good enough to realize how much better the gear would make me... but how many people on AT truly are?

Cheers


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

NOW it's truly "More like everyday standard Archery Talk stuff..." 

LOL

I thought StarDog's comments were actually quite complimentary of the Matrix.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

bobnikon said:


> So, to wrap it up, sorry my lack of attribution offends your scholastic sensibilities ... Sorry I am also not good enough to realize how much better the gear would make me... but how many people on AT truly are?
> Cheers


Couple of things:

First, a "lack of attribution" doesn't offend my scholastic sensibilities - what does offend is that it makes people appear to be more of an expert on a subject than they really are. 

Second, I'm going to insert a quote from a great article I've saved by Tom Nichols. I don't recall if it's an excerpt from his book "The Death of Expertise" or not, and I can't recall where I found the article, but it's a good read. The article itself was also called "The Death of Expertise".


> There’s also that immutable problem known as “human nature.” It has a name now: it’s called the Dunning-Kruger effect, which says, in sum, that the dumber you are, the more confident you are that you’re not actually dumb. And when you get invested in being aggressively dumb…well, the last thing you want to encounter are experts who disagree with you, and so you dismiss them in order to maintain your unreasonably high opinion of yourself. (There’s a lot of that loose on social media, especially.)


Another paragraph from the same article illustrates the relevance to the way this thread has turned - people often express opinions on things and thereby affect how others perceive things they have not yet personally experienced. But these people often do not have the expertise to make valid evaluations, and they can, knowingly or unknowingly, negatively affect the livelihood of others without due cause. 


> I fear we are witnessing the “death of expertise”: a Google-fueled, Wikipedia-based, blog-sodden collapse of any division between professionals and laymen, students and teachers, knowers and wonderers – in other words, between those of any achievement in an area and those with none at all. By this, I do not mean the death of actual expertise, the knowledge of specific things that sets some people apart from others in various areas. There will always be doctors, lawyers, engineers, and other specialists in various fields. Rather, what I fear has died is any acknowledgment of expertise as anything that should alter our thoughts or change the way we live.


A negative or even a neutral review of any product, *if based on insufficient examination* (IMPORTANT), can be detrimental to the business that produces it, if the reader believes the review to be accurate and calculated.

This NOT a dig at StarDog, but a general comment about people on AT and on social media in general. Sorry, StarDog, for getting you caught in the middle of this.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Dude this is Archery talk. We don't have to have credentials to post our impressions of gear. Get off it. Me saying I didn't like a piece of gear is not going to hurt a companies bottom line one bit. Furthermore I have every right to say I didn't like said piece of gear. If people look at my post history and say... whatever the dude is always hating on Company X, then they disregard. If they say, dude is always straight up and seems to know his stuff, then maybe they pay attention. 

The post in question was not a judgement on the gear in question, but a qualitative comparison from a personal perspective. Neither you nor GT have any right to censor that or judge it.

If a Company Person comes on here and rarely makes a meaningful post but usually just posts up snide comments, how will that weigh against any number of favorable reviews? 

I was in no way trying to claim the wiki post as my own, in fact, the manner in which I posted it, to my mind was self evident that it was a citation, though unattributed. 

You also need to work on your Oxford syle by the way my friend.

Cheers


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Sorry airwolfipsc!

I took umbrage to GT's comment, and took it too far in your thread. 

I will now bow out of your thread.

Cheers
Erik


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

bobnikon said:


> You also need to work on your Oxford syle by the way my friend.
> 
> Cheers


Sorry, don't know what "syle" means.

 

I also shall bow out. Or more correctly, I out from this thread shall also bow.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Well that escalated quickly


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Stash said:


> Nice cut-and-paste straight out of Wikipedia there. You should at least attribute the quote.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the point >--gt--> (and I) are trying to make is that, although they like to think that they do, many people simply do not possess the skill level to make a valid evaluation of the quality level of technical equipment.
> 
> Think about it. >--gt--> probably had something to do with the design of that particular Hoyt product.


Yes, that was my point.

Actually, I had nothing to do with that particular piece of gear. But, anyone who claims they can't feel a difference between a cheap set of limbs and those new Bamboo core limbs, has a clear lack of something- feel, experience or other.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

If a $329 set of limbs are "cheap" then surely a $179 sight must be for a beginner. LOL


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

>--gt--> said:


> But, anyone who claims they can't feel a difference between a cheap set of limbs and those new Bamboo core limbs, has a clear lack of something- feel, experience or other.


Those Mk Inpers she referenced while affordable are not a cheap set of limbs. They are the best intermediate limb on the market and will stand up against many limbs on the market rated higher quality. 


Chris


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

I've had to order the NS limbs from IXPE since Lancaster was having some issues getting Win&win stock in. I've been shooting the NS limbs extensively for over a month now and I actually have a lot to say about them. I've compared them extensively to the EX Primes (On the same riser setup) since I own an identical pair in the same draw weight. But, as far as comparing it to Xtours it would be more limited since I don't own a pair (especially when they are $789 compared to $630 for what I got for the NS.) I'll give my thoughts on it when I have some free time after work. 

In the meantime, enjoy some pictures from the limbs






















P.S. I personally hold the MK Inpers in pretty high regard for budget high end limbs. I owned a pair of Veracity and Inpers and the Inpers performed 95% of what the Veracity can do. I think if you don't have the money, Inpers are amazing but if you do have the money, the flagship limbs are the icing on the cake.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Not to be "this guy" and revive a dead horse, but I'm surprised we're all here discussing how a limb will or will not make us better shooters. My answer is, no they will not. At least for most of us. I laugh sometimes because its almost as if people think Hoyt products are sprinkled with magical fairy dust that will turn them into world class shooters. Sadly, those sparkly X-tours are only going to be as accurate as the person shooting them. I like to think of it the opposite way around, it's the shooter that improves the limb. Every pair of limbs in the world has the potential to shoot perfect X's every shot. You're only going to see it when you have the technique to make those limbs shoot that well.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

In all fairness, those X-tours could very well be one of the best limbs ever made. It's about time a mainstream manufacturer finally chose bamboo for a core. Many of us traditional guys have known for decades what great shooting qualities it has. My newer SKY TR-7 limbs had bamboo cores and were pure butter and speed. 

I also like what Doug has done with those risers, broadening them front to back for a little more stiffness. Those are tangible, objective things I can see that should make a difference. 

At the highest levels, the difference between one set of limbs and another actually can make a difference in your score at the end of the day. Even at the amateur level, having a bow you really enjoy shooting will encourage you to shoot more, which in the end will make you a better shooter.


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## fader (May 17, 2010)

Here's my brief review of the Wiawis NS limbs, which I've owned for a couple weeks now. The first thing I noticed out of the box was how light they are. They're noticeably lighter than my EX Primes. The second thing I noticed, after shooting them, was that they're fast... Really fast, compared to either my EX Primes or Quattros of the same weight. Sight marks improved drastically and I've had to move to a stiffer spined arrow. At 36# @ 27.5 DL I was previously shooting X10 650's. With these limbs I recently moved to 600's, which barely tune with 100 grain points and a super stiff plunger. I'll be giving my 550's a go next time out to see if those tune easier (Last time I shot 550's I was pulling at least 42# with F7 limbs). As far as feel goes, I'd probably liken them to the Primes. But, I'm not super sensitive feel. Perhaps someone else (fango?) will have more to say about that.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

rjbishop said:


> Not to be "this guy" and revive a dead horse, but I'm surprised we're all here discussing how a limb will or will not make us better shooters. My answer is, no they will not. At least for most of us. I laugh sometimes because its almost as if people think Hoyt products are sprinkled with magical fairy dust that will turn them into world class shooters. Sadly, those sparkly X-tours are only going to be as accurate as the person shooting them. I like to think of it the opposite way around, it's the shooter that improves the limb. Every pair of limbs in the world has the potential to shoot perfect X's every shot. You're only going to see it when you have the technique to make those limbs shoot that well.


Usually when I discuss equipment, it is a separate conversation from whether it will make a better shooter. I do believe that for example a high quality fast limb will help younger collegiate ladies who struggle with draw weight and draw length reach 70m more easily and be less punished in the wind. In my opinion, that improves her performance and makes her a "better" shooter on score and paper. 

I approach these discussions to analyze the feel and performance of equipment compared to other equipment in my honest and very subjective opinion. I am work as a lab manager and scientist in a university research lab so naturally I would try to isolate the variables as well as I can and perform tests without introducing noise to the best of ability, but of course I acknowledge form plays a huge factor on equipment. Archery is only a hobby to me so I only have enough time to dedicate to be a 1100 indoor shooter and a 1200 outdoor shooter so of course take my opinions for what they're worth. When I look at equipment, I don't think of their performance in the context of the Olympians, because like many have said, Brady can probably shoot 1300s on hoyt excels. I've personally watched Ms. Kim Kyongwook shoot 292s/300 with a rental shop bow from the HSS academy (samick priviledges, ultra aguilla, and easton Plat plus arrows) at the 2016 California State indoor championships. She did not ever leave the gold. I look at equipment and think how can regular people who treat archery as a hobby with limited time to invest benefit from this? Being a coach for a collegiate team this is especially relevant. 

With that being said, I do believe that a shooter with a plucky or sloppy release will shoot better scores with a limb that is more torsionally stiff (ie Wiawis NS) than a limb that isn't (ie EX Primes) if that is the only variable you compare. the stiffer limb will deform less leaving the fingers.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

fango0000 said:


> .......
> With that being said, I do believe that a shooter with a plucky or sloppy release will shoot better scores with a limb that is more torsionally stiff (ie Wiawis NS) than a limb that isn't (ie EX Primes) if that is the only variable you compare. the stiffer limb will deform less leaving the fingers.....


On principle you are surely right, but in the specific case, I have not seen too much difference in torsional stifness between EX Prime and Wiawis NS, while surely some difference exists between Wiavis NS and Wiavis, at least comparing limbs of similar poundages on same riser. While Wiwis NS are for sure much faster than the other two. 
Before someone asks, sorry, I have no data about Hoyt limbs comparison.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Have you conducted any tests between EX Primes and WIAWIS NS?


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