# I need information.....



## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

I am trying to get a list of the perfect Field and Hunter Spot rounds that have been shot in competition. I will need the year and the archer's name and more important, the model of bow he or she was shooting.
I plan to go over the bow geometry and features to see if there is any similarity. The information may also be used to determine which modern developments in bow design have contributed to improved accuracy.
Anyone have any useful information?


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## south-paaw (Jul 3, 2006)

it's a short list.. " Professional Male Free Style " .... 2008 and 2009 

http://nfaa-archery.org/depot/uploa...tdoor National Field ChampionshipsResults.pdf... 

http://nfaa-archery.org/depot/uploadedResults/837-2009803-2009 Outdoor NationalResults.pdf

Hoyt Bows


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

why is everyone so quick to forget the first perfect hunter round shot by Terry Ragsdale in the 80's?

there was also a second one shot the same day by a very young Mr Broadwater

i know to a very good degree that when Mr Ragsdale and young Mr Broadwater shot theirs, bows were either neutral to deflex in the riser geometry with a let-off less than 65%


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

You may need to expand the scoring range (558-560?) to obtain enough data to form a basis for conclusions.


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

Yes, I may need to expand the range, but for now, just perfect scores.
I ama thinking there are more than than those three adult perfect scores. I believe Terry's was with a deflex riser and don't forget in those days the bows lacked a "wall"! What was the ATA of his bow?
I need bow specs on the two recent perfect scores. Anyone know?


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

rock monkey said:


> why is everyone so quick to forget the first perfect hunter round shot by Terry Ragsdale in the 80's?
> 
> there was also a second one shot the same day by a very young Mr Broadwater
> 
> i know to a very good degree that when Mr Ragsdale and young Mr Broadwater shot theirs, bows were either neutral to deflex in the riser geometry with a let-off less than 65%


Yep, SHOT IN site marks, no computer generated site tapes, ALUMINUM arrows, No clinometers or rangefinders, no cut-charts, dacron strings, steel cables. No clarifiers or lenses in the peep sites. The bows probably had WOOD composite one-piece limbs, letoff in the 50% or LESS range. I think Ragsdale's PSE was only shooting around 225 fps or maybe slightly less than that, too. ATA on Terry's bow was likely AT LEAST 45" ATA and the brace height was probably well above 8 1/2", too. At the time, a 45" ATA bow was SHORT, and 48" ATA was fairly common.

Didn't Joe Kapp have the 2nd perfect 560 hunter round only a short time after Terry shot his perfect 560?

field14 (Tom D.)


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i'm pretty sure Dave Cousins shot a perfect hunter round at the glen in 04. i remember signing his target.


i will shoot in a few marks, generate a scale and then verify it. for me, using AA is a quick way to make adjustments on the fly and give me a way to tweak my arrows in.

my split-t from that era is 43" ATA and has a generous brace height.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Thought Terry (and Jesse's) were both shot in the mid- to upper-90's? Kapp about a year, or possibly two, later?

>>----->


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

Terry shot his perfect at Wausau, WI in 1995. Not sure of the specifics but he was shooting a PSE Mach5. Those bows were in my opinion, the best you could shoot at that time. They had a deflex riser with glass laminated limbs. The bow was 41" a2a and 65% let-off. Unfortunately I don't know what Jesse was shooting at the time. Maybe I should have paid more attention.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Mike2787 said:


> Terry shot his perfect at Wausau, WI in 1995. Not sure of the specifics but he was shooting a PSE Mach5. Those bows were in my opinion, the best you could shoot at that time. They had a deflex riser with glass laminated limbs. The bow was 41" a2a and 65% let-off. Unfortunately I don't know what Jesse was shooting at the time. Maybe I should have paid more attention.


If i'm not mistaken, he was using a Martin


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i stopped shooting in 81. i was 14 at the time. i thought he might have done it between then and 90.

the nfaa site did have, possibly still does have, the scores shot for each year somewhere.

doesnt matter when he shot it, it's still an accomplishment many try to achieve themselves. nothing can take away the fact and the record that Terry was THE FIRST to do it.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

brtesite said:


> If i'm not mistaken, he was using a Martin


Yes, Terry was the first ADULT to shoot a perfect 560 in NATIONAL competition. However, in the same tournament, I believe that a young Jesse Broadwater (A CUB at the time, I think) also shot a perfect 560.

I have always thought that Terry's 560 was more like around 1990 or 1991??? I sure didn't think it was as late as 1995. However, if Mike says it was 1995, then Mike is more in the know than I am, no doubt.

I dont' think TERRY RAGSDALE ever shot for Martin...and I am almost positive that when he retired from competitive shooting he was STILL shooting for PSE, just as he had since he was a youngster.....and cleaning everyone's clock back in the mid- 1970's, ha.

I'm pretty sure that at the Glen in 1989, Terry had at least one, if not two scores in the 557-558 range as well. I am pretty sure that on one field round, he only had ONE target that wasn't a "20"...and it was a "17". If I recall, he said something like, "I knew those arrows were gonna be low when I saw the tips of my shoes in the bottom of my scope." So, he shot 27 out of 28 targets CLEAN....and those 3 misses were NOT on the 80, 65,60,55, or 50 yarders either.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Hey Tom, I believe Mr. L. was referring to the bow Jesse may have been using when he shot his perfect score as a Cub, not Terry's bow.

If I recall, wasn't Terry shooting ACC's as well by '95 when he shot the perfect 560? Thought Kapp's perfect hunter round was shot the last year Blue Springs, MO hosted a Natls, or did he shoot his at the Glen?

>>------>


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## JF from VA (Dec 5, 2002)

I was at the Glen in 2002 and 2004 and I believe Joe Kapp shot a perfect hunter in '02 and Dave Cousins shot his in '04.


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

Not much information on the bows they shot. How about the bows that were used to shoot the more recent perfect field scores?
It appears not many know much about the geometry (brace height, ATA, deflex/reflex, parallel limb design, soft or hard cam, etc.). Would it be safe to say then that most on AT probably have little idea what design features make a bow accurate at longer ranges?
(this oughta stir the pot!)


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## TobyR. (Jul 31, 2005)

... Wow.... sounds like your are trying to put together a "How To Buy A Score" Handbook. The geometry (brace height, ATA, deflex/reflex, parallel limb design, soft or hard cam, etc.) have VERY little to do with the score shot. It's is much more about the "operator"..... or as Dad calls it "the nut on the handle". 
(just a little different post stirring from the brother of the first)


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

The geometry (brace height, ATA, deflex/reflex, parallel limb design, soft or hard cam, etc) have VERY little to do with the score shot? Hmmmm...... So do you know of any perfect Field scores shot with a 28" ATA bow with a 5" brace height, parallel limbs, 3 inches of reflex and a Hard Cam? I think we could all learn by looking closely at the bows the best "operators" choose to shoot. At least we can if accuracy is our goal.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

the people that shoot the short bows REFUSE to shoot paper.


they've been convinced that their bow cant shoot more than 40yds

they refuse to shoot anything that takes the excuse factor out of the equation and place all the performance responsibility upon the archer.

they've been done a grave disservice by their dealers by only promoting one venue instead of allowing the new archer/customer to make that choice.

they also dont have the temperament needed to invest in practicing needed to get that good. archery is as much a discipline as it is a sport. compare it to any of the martial arts. you just dont walk in and expect to be breaking boards with your little toe after a week's worth of lessons.

they've been pressured by their friends and society as a whole that if it's THE most expensive, you'll be THE best. $2000 dollars of equipment and $2 of talent cant win a national title.

many of the 'sheeple' remind me of kids 'expressing their individuality' by dressing the same. figure that one out.


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

I have seen some shooting short bows at Field, but have not heard of any of them shooting a perfect score.
Okay, so anyone shot a 559 shooting a short bow with a low brace height and speed cams?
How about a 558?


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Jesse and Reo have shot theirs with Spirals, so there is a "speed cam" for ya.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Ask Ronny Lewis of Virginia. His son shot a perfect at Southern MAryland Archers about 5 years ago. we were shooting a 14 target range twice and I believe it was done during a Field round but not sure.


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## TobyR. (Jul 31, 2005)

Jabwa said:


> I think we could all learn by looking closely at the bows the best "operators" choose to shoot. At least we can if accuracy is our goal.


I'm sure that you could learn from the choice of equipment that the best operators choose.... I'm just saying that you can learn much more by looking closely at how they operate said equipment choice...:wink:


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

I have sat behind the pro line at Vegas and done just that. It taught me that each shooter had a set time after coming to full draw at which the bow went off, which indicated to me that the release is not a "surprise" but rather, "expected but not anticipated".
Other than that, there is lots of variation, which told me that everyone is different and those who "copy the pros" are going in the wrong direction. Perhaps the same is true of bows.
The purpose of this thread was to see if the geometry of the bow has anything to do with the difference between a "great" archer and a "perfect" archer.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

check out ANN HOYT i think she still holds the worlds record .


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i dont want to pick on a family, but let's take michelle ragsdale for example.

she shot exceptionally well with compounds and shot exceptionally well with a recurve....sometimes in the same day. 2 entirely different disciplines but equally impressive scores and placings.

to try and emulate what a pro does and by buying what they shoot is a marketer's gold mine.

year after year we see only marginal improvements in bows and their design. yet everyone and their brother is absolutely convinced that this year's bow is the bow that grants all their wishes, answers their dreams and makes them the next superstar.

if everyone spent 1/10 the amount of what they spend on equipment and put it in range time they would be a better archer.


gee toby, doesnt that sound like something your dad would say?


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

I know, I know it's the archer and not the bow but.....in my limited time in this sport I have come across a couple of things that make me beleive that some bows just plain shoot better than others. My first example is the Jennings T-star. In the early 1980's the T was one of the best bows around. The split limb design was probably 43" a2a and had at least a 9" brace height. I won two NFAA Nationals with this bow and between Jack Cramer , Larry Wise and Dean Pridgen, we won every tournament that Terry Ragsdale left for us. Then in 1983, Jennings redesigned the limbs by putting small hanger brackets on the end of the limbs that positioned the wheels below the limbs instead of above the limbs. That redesign ruined the bow as far as a forgiving accurate setup. I'm not an engineer but I know that messed up that bow big time. There have been several bows over the years, that for some reason, improved the scores of most people who shot them. The PSE Fireflight and evolving to the Mach 5 from the late 80's to early 90's was one such bow as well as the Martin Sceptors up to the Sceptor 3. It seems that a lot of people shooting Mathews and Hoyts would tell you that their bows add to their scores. I know my Mathews work well for me and most of the time, outperforms me.

I don't know if it's geometry, quality control, cam design, string material, arrow evolution or what, that makes one bow better than the next.

Just sayin..


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