# Grouping at 30 yards ???



## Aguasanta (Jan 17, 2013)

How is your group at 25/30 yards ??????


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

For me - there is a pretty big difference between 25 and 30 yards. 25 yards I can keep my arrows pretty tight - 30 yards they start getting bigger - but I can still manage to keep most all of them in the 8 or ten ring. 30 yards seems to be the changing point for me in regards to accuracy - 30 and in the accuracy keeps getting better - 30 and out and the accuracy starts to diminish.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

I am not very good at this, but do ok at 15 yards. At 20 yds I can keep 12 arrows in a 12 inch circle. I am not a lot worse at 25, with the circle expanding to 14 inches. But at 30, I am terrible. Only about half of my arrows hit a 16 inch target. I need more practice.


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

I find my groups when shooting a sighted bow (my FITA rig) expand almost exactly like a stable cone of dispersion would show. Meaning if I shoot 4" groups at 20 yards, they will be 8" groups at 40 yards and 16" at 80 yards. This is assuming no wind.

Shooting barebow I do notice the groups expanding faster as you double the distance. I believe this is because I'm not using a clicker and not able to aim with the same precision. So I can still shoot inside the 4 ring of a 40cm target at 20 yards with 90% of my shots but really notice a deterioration of group past 30 yards like Ken has mentioned above. On a good day I can stay inside the 2 ring with every shot from 30 yards shot barebow. And most will be inside the 3 ring. I do not consider this great shooting having witnessed better.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

Been doing a fair amount of long distance shooting lately. This past Saturday I was ON and took pics of my two best groups these aren't average by any means. 










40 yards










60 yards


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

quit rubbing it in Matt -


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

On the internet, my 30-yard groups are under 3".


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## kylecurtis04 (Nov 30, 2010)

i believe i heard a saying that you want at least an inch per ten yards. So 10 yards=1", 20 yards=2", 30 yards=3" so on and so forth. Someone correct me if I am wrong tho.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

J. Wesbrock said:


> On the internet, my 30-yard groups are under 3".


I'm telling you ya need to change your aiming system. 

Matt


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

kylecurtis04 said:


> i believe i heard a saying that you want at least an inch per ten yards. So 10 yards=1", 20 yards=2", 30 yards=3" so on and so forth. Someone correct me if I am wrong tho.


I'd say this is wrong. Nobody can make 2" groups consistently at 20 yards. If they could, we'd see perfect scores made indoors on the 300 round. And that doesn't happen. Not shot barebow anyway.


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## CAPTJJ (Dec 24, 2007)

Stone Bridge said:


> I'd say this is wrong. Nobody can make 2" groups consistently at 20 yards. If they could, we'd see perfect scores made indoors on the 300 round. And that doesn't happen. Not shot barebow anyway.


I don't think he realizes he's posting in the traditional forum, been noticing that lately, people click on "New Posts" and start replying without looking at which forum the thread is in.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Matt_Potter said:


> I'm telling you ya need to change your aiming system.
> 
> Matt


You mean I should stop shooting instinctively?


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## Jeb-D. (Sep 21, 2011)

Out to 25 yards my groups open up in a consistent gradual manner. At 30 yards, I just start spraying arrows. I plan to start gaping or stringwalking at 30, but havent invested the time yet.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I'd say if you can put them all into a paper plate at 30 you are doing just fine.


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## Aguasanta (Jan 17, 2013)

This was mne at 25 yards today ...i need more practice !!


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

Matt , nice work .


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## kylecurtis04 (Nov 30, 2010)

CAPTJJ said:


> I don't think he realizes he's posting in the traditional forum, been noticing that lately, people click on "New Posts" and start replying without looking at which forum the thread is in.


you caught me. sorry guys!


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

On a average day at 30 I can keep 6 out of 6 in the 3 ring on a NFAA face and on my good days I can keep them all in the 4 ring, pic is of a good day, 5 shots had the one flyer not bad for a rookie


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## gr4vitas (May 25, 2013)

These kinds of threads depress me :mmph:


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

I had a 2'' group of 3 arrows and felt like robin hoods, shooting tight groups with a recurve is the ultimate reward


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

gr4vitas said:


> These kinds of threads depress me :mmph:


Why?


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

*grouping at 30?*

I dont know . I'll go shoot a group at 30 today and let you know, guaranteed to have some pretty big spreads for ya ,lol.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

The only way to get good at thirty is to practice at 40 and 50. I shoot out to 80 on a regular basis - you really learn your bow and your form at the longer distances and it makes 20 look like a slam dunk.

Matt


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

Matt_Potter said:


> The only way to get good at thirty is to practice at 40 and 50. I shoot out to 80 on a regular basis - you really learn your bow and your form at the longer distances and it makes 20 look like a slam dunk.
> 
> Matt


Exactly!!!


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Shot a 230 something last winter at the indoor club when nobody was around and I could move back to 30 safely. No misses on the blue face but I did have a few 1's and 2's. Pretty fun and I think I could improve on that by just getting used to the sight picture and working on consistent draw length and release.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

What did the man say about shooting sightless one stringers?...oh yeah...this...

*"The bad news is you hafta shoot a lot to get good...but...The Good news is...you hafta shoot a lot to get good!"*

or sump'in like that! :laugh:


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## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

Does it really matter how tight your groups are if you are NOT hitting where you aim?


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## Yohon (Aug 28, 2003)

Matt_Potter said:


> The only way to get good at thirty is to practice at 40 and 50. I shoot out to 80 on a regular basis - you really learn your bow and your form at the longer distances and it makes 20 look like a slam dunk.
> 
> Matt


BINGO!!!! Some great shooting Matt:darkbeer:


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Chupacabras said:


> Does it really matter how tight your groups are if you are NOT hitting where you aim?


Moving a group is easy. Shooting one is the hard part.


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

very humid here today and was hard to focus but I stepped back to 30 and first arrow broke on me at full draw ( nock split in half upon release). needless to say the rest of my arrows were hard to shoot after that. I was not mentally stable. I shot the rest of my 5 arrows anyways. they were scattered pretty good and the group ended up about 20" or so.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

I posted the same thing two years ago nobody listened. You post it and everybody pats you on the back.
like I keep saying I get no respect
:teeth:


Matt_Potter said:


> The only way to get good at thirty is to practice at 40 and 50. I shoot out to 80 on a regular basis - you really learn your bow and your form at the longer distances and it makes 20 look like a slam dunk.
> 
> Matt


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

Whatever gear I use I tend to shoot long distance as it tells you so much about your progress . 

My 30 metre groups are way better after I have practiced a few sessions at 50 metres [ and after I eventually found my arrows , in , under , over and around the target


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## yokelokie (Dec 11, 2009)

I've only been shooting a recurve since last fall. It's kicking my tail. At 20 yards I can usually keep 5 arrows in a 6 inch circle (sometimes better sometimes worse). At 25 yds I struggle to keep 5 arrow inside 12 inches consistently.

I am a hunter, and the thing that bothers me most is that my first shot of the day is almost never a good one. It takes me 3 or 4 arrows to find the target. I sure need a coach.


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## Aguasanta (Jan 17, 2013)

Today i practice a little bit more and this was the result!!!! Pretty good to me ,but was not like that all the time,I wish it was !!!!! Did it a few times .......maybe I could be ready for opening season if I keep doing like this !!!


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

Aguasanta said:


> View attachment 1750054
> 
> Today i practice a little bit more and this was the result!!!! Pretty good to me ,but was not like that all the time,I wish it was !!!!! Did it a few times .......maybe I could be ready for opening season if I keep doing like this !!!


wow that is a great group at 30!. whats your setup there? really liking those arrows you use.


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## Long Rifle (Dec 8, 2011)

I judge my groups by a 3D ten zone and I spent quite a bit of time doing walkbacks this evening, concentrating on longer distances, and shooting at a golf ball size target. Occasionally I'd throw one slightly outside but 8 out of ten would most likely be inside a 4"-5" circle at 30 yards.....today. Tomorrow that could double!


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## BigPapaGuss (Aug 24, 2013)

I would say something, but I know thirty rfom a hole in the ground, honestly... but from ten paces away my grouping is tight, fifteen gets sloppy, twenty is all over the bag, thirty is strangely tighter and at forty? if I can hit the bag? I am impressed!


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## Aguasanta (Jan 17, 2013)

Is a PSE Talon 45# 58 " , arrows Goldtip 5575 .at full lenght .482 gr...5" feathers ....


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

2413gary said:


> I posted the same thing two years ago nobody listened. You post it and everybody pats you on the back.
> like I keep saying I get no respect
> :teeth:


Matt's a big, scary guy. Fear and respect are often confused for one another. :sad:


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Aguasanta said:


> How is your group at 25/30 yards ??????


Some days my groups are big…….other days they are bigger. :lol:


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGMV4Ig0XM

Been sick and wanted to check my form. Group is misleading, my form was crap here, but you get to see the new Omega in action.


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

yokelokie said:


> I've only been shooting a recurve since last fall. It's kicking my tail. At 20 yards I can usually keep 5 arrows in a 6 inch circle (sometimes better sometimes worse). At 25 yds I struggle to keep 5 arrow inside 12 inches consistently.
> 
> I am a hunter, and the thing that bothers me most is that my first shot of the day is almost never a good one. It takes me 3 or 4 arrows to find the target. I sure need a coach.


Just keep practicing bud, overtime you will have tight groups, it's all muscle memory and With tons of practice you will be a natural,


Blace


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

kegan said:


> Group is misleading


Groups mean nothing. 3 consistently left shots, none where you wanted. Form is ok, better posture would help stability.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Destroyer said:


> Groups mean nothing. 3 consistently left shots, none where you wanted. Form is ok, better posture would help stability.


I think this statement has been Said on one of these threads by the same person on several occasions. I hope all the new (and old ) shooters on here realize how ridiculous that statement is. I'm referring to the" Groups mean nothing "statement. I never commented on it before because it was issued just to get an argument going and is ridiculous in its content. Hopefully, everyone had a good laugh over it, as I did, and continues to try to improve their grouping by all the different means available.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

itbeso said:


> I think this statement has been Said on one of these threads by the same person on several occasions.


Yes me! LOL! 



itbeso said:


> I never commented on it before because it was issued *just to get an argument going*


No, its a way of looking at shooting an arrow and putting all into that one shot, mentally and physically. Its also a way of keeping focus. Don't understand or agree then fine, but whats the big deal? The purpose of your comment was to start an argument yes?

Congrats itbeso, you have just tipped the scale to where I couldn't give a frak about trying to educate archers on this forum anymore. Its bad enough having the so called 'experts' giving incorrect information constantly but having to deal with archers who have personality disorders is just too much. 

You will be a hero too many here, I'm guessing. :wink:

Have fun guy's & gals!


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## mrjeffro (Jul 25, 2007)

kegan said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGMV4Ig0XM
> 
> Been sick and wanted to check my form. Group is misleading, my form was crap here, but you get to see the new Omega in action.


A 66" Omega recurve!! Say it ain't so!! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


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## Speck1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Kegan, are you going to start building recurves to sell? When? Speck


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

mrjeffro said:


> A 66" Omega recurve!! Say it ain't so!! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


Yup! I'm a fan of the longer bows, so my first recurve had to be nice and long. It's butter! I'm working on some 62" limbs for more blind/stand oriented excursions. Hopefully I'll have all the kinks worked out by this fall 

My posture can't really straighten out. I anchor so high I need to lean over the arrow just a tad to get it in a straight line with the target (also have to deal with my glasses). However, my back tension is rubbish. Consistent collapsing was sending them all left.


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

last night I had a steller group, then after that I missed the target twice lol, gotta love the stickbow...


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## Meleagris1 (Jan 8, 2003)

My worst arrows are just outside of a pie plate at 30, but I'd say 90% are within it. Big difference for me from 25 to 30 because 25 is point on for me, and I'm still getting used to the sight picture with the point above the target.


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## wideleft (Jul 25, 2013)

This time of year, just before the opener, I tend to focus more on the first arrow of the day. Everyday I am shooting from a different unknown distance (I don't hunt with a range finder and so I don't practice with one either). If the first arrow hits the pie plate then I am happy. If not, then I walk right up to the target and shoot several arrows from about 6' away and work on form, release, and focus from both a standing and kneeling position. If my groupings are really off this time of year, than I probably should stay home and keep working of my forum. Otherwise I know that I can shoot my set up, and when I am missing or off, it is more often than not a mental issue. Not being focused while shooting a stick bow is the ultimate handicap. However, this is how I prepare for the hunting season and it may very well differ from yours.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Taking a break from the 66" bow (I am not taking off the 34# limbs...yet!) so gave the 60" bow, with 24# limbs, use at 20 and 35 yards.
At 35 yards, 15 shots:


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Back to 20 yards after 35 yards;


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Tune of the orange nocked arrows at 12 yards:


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

shooting 35y is like shooting for the moon with these bows


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

airwolf said:


> shooting 35y is like shooting for the moon with these bows


Which bows?


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

Not from 30 but around 20, doing a little night shooting and this is the best group yet, I can't get enough of traditional bows


Blace


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

Blace 

Nice shooting. 

Guys 30 yards is not far if your going to be hunting at 10-20 yards you really should be practicing out to 30-40 on a regular basis. By practice I don't mean fling a couple of arrows at 40 then move back to 15 and call it good. You need to spend time at those ranges shooting groups and building confidence so when you drop back to 20 it looks like a slam dunk. 

I won't shoot past 25-30 while hunting but I practice out to 80 on a regular basis. 

Matt


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## ArrowCrazy (Feb 25, 2011)

This advice is some of the best you can gleam from this site. When I started to shoot my practice rounds at distances far beyond my comfort zone is when I saw by biggest leaps in form and then accuracy at hunting distances. Great advice Matt! (oh and Gary too!) :set1_applaud:



Matt_Potter said:


> Blace
> 
> Nice shooting.
> 
> ...


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

30yds my average is 4-6" when I'm warmed-up. Some are tighter, a few are looser. That would be 5 arrow groups.

20yds is my self-imposed hunting distance, but I enjoy shooting 60-70yds regularly because that is where you learn how to really shoot.

-Grant


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

yeah its the same concept with a compound, I shoot from 40-60 yards and my distances from 20-30 yards are 1'' groups, havnt tried that distance with my recurve but I will this weekend, more and more I think im going to hunt with the curve on opening day


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

*A few groups from this morning*

Both groups were shot at 30yds


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

kegan said:


> Which bows?


I was refering to the stickbows in general. I shoot unaided instinctive. pretty tuff to get groups at 30 plus, for me anyways.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

airwolf said:


> I was refering to the stickbows in general. I shoot unaided instinctive. pretty tuff to get groups at 30 plus, for me anyways.


Mehhhh, excuses! Rick Welch doesn't have any issues:wink:


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## jkm97 (Jul 8, 2004)

yokelokie said:


> I've only been shooting a recurve since last fall. It's kicking my tail. At 20 yards I can usually keep 5 arrows in a 6 inch circle (sometimes better sometimes worse). At 25 yds I struggle to keep 5 arrow inside 12 inches consistently.
> 
> I am a hunter, and the thing that bothers me most is that my first shot of the day is almost never a good one. It takes me 3 or 4 arrows to find the target. I sure need a coach.


This is about like me...except, oddly, my first **** tends to be right on the money. Hope it continues into October that way. I'm good enough to take deer at 20 and in, but I'm too inconsistent beyond that still. I'm doing most if my practicing at 25 these days, and I'm getting closer, but I still miss the 8 ring on my deer target 2-3 times out if ten at 25.


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## jkm97 (Jul 8, 2004)

Shot, not whatever **** means... iPhone.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

The light was dying but here we go:







Here is a 25-50m walkback with an arrow every 5m:







You can tell that it needs some tuning as there is a very obvious left to right movement with increasing distance.

55m group:








-Grant


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

Every day when I shoot in my back yard the first arrows are from my porch when I step outside. It is a 50 yard shot at a deer target. If I can put them all into the deer I'm happy. I don't fret over 10 rings but all in the deer near the vitals. It doesn't happen often. I'll have to do some trimming with a chain saw to get a shot over 60 though. These guys are correct, long distance shooting will reveal flaws in your form better than anything.

yokelokie,
Carry a judo point arrow with you and if going to your stand in the afternoon take a few shots at tufts of grass or something to loosen up. In the dark I take a few close in shots walking to the stand too. My hunting shot at game is NEVER my first shot of the day. Good luck.


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