# Yardage thing...



## JUMPMAN (Jun 5, 2005)

*Imho*

10 percent in estimating the yardage and 90 percent in executing the shot. Afterall even if you know the distance you still have to make the shot. :mg:


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## tstone (Feb 20, 2004)

Javi,
For ME, I have to practice my range estimation as much, or maybe a little more, than my actual shooting. When I shot a lot of 3-D, I did much better on the days when I could walk up to the stake, look at the target, and KNOW that the target was 43 yds. If I had not been practicing my ranging est. as I should, I'd look at the target and think "Hmm, look's like a little over 40".  The difference was usually a 12 in the first scenario, and a 10 or 8 in the second. So to answer your question, I would give judging yardage at least 50-55% as far as the amount of practice I personally put into it. I shot with a guy once that did land surveying for a living. He was absolutely phenomenal at judging distance, so he didn't give it much thought. Couldn't hit squat though. :wink:


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## SSIUV4L (Mar 4, 2005)

you can just as easily execute a great shot and miss the yardage by 5 yards and score the same as a poorly executed shot with the correct yardage. i say 50/50


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## bowhunter7275 (Feb 15, 2005)

JUMPMAN said:


> 10 percent in estimating the yardage and 90 percent in executing the shot. Afterall even if you know the distance you still have to make the shot. :mg:


I think just the opposite.


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## all ears (Apr 15, 2004)

I agree w/ dontpunchit- 50/50. I don't think you can weigh one as more important than the other. I think this is the reason some spot shooters get frustrated w/3-D; they have nice consistent shot execution but they're not used to estimating yardage, hence the reason around here the top bowhunter freestyle scores are usually always higher than the top freestyle scores. :mg:


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## newshooter05 (Feb 24, 2005)

I am new and need a lot of work on both aspects but I would have to say its about 50/50. If I misjudge the yardage by a few yards but make a beautiful perfect shot I am still going to score poorly. Likewise if I judge the yardage down the the tee but make a bad shot I am going to score poorly. You cant have one without the other.


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## pinshooter (Jun 11, 2004)

Definitely 50/50. You have to make a good shot if you know the distance but if you are shooting at low twelve’s and you are 1 yard low you will be an 8. You can be high probably 3 yards and still be a 10. Center 12's are a little easier because you have lead way on top and bottom.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

I'm figuring more like 75% - 80% judging and the rest shooting ability... :wink:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Javi*

Having your own 3d range is diffiantly a plus for any 3der.

Knowing exactly where to shoot that 12 ring without your binos is a big plus.

I agree that you must spend more time judging than shooting. 

I would 65% judging and 35% shooting

Dixon back when he was the best told me he judged 3 hrs a day and shot for an hour.

Knowing how to judge all terrain is also a key.


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

i would agree with Dan's numbers there.....


knowing the targets is deffinatly a plus........


i try to judge an hour a day........judge trees and stumps while i'm walking through my range.... i'll probablr shoot 10 targets in that amount of time, and the practice bag 10-20 shots


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## Ivorytooth (Jan 22, 2004)

One of these days I will start practicing judging. Still giving 110% to the shot.


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## YnoX (May 11, 2004)

My guess would be 50/50.

And here is why:

You are a descent shot if you can group your arrows consistently within 5" at 50yds.

Well, we know that is not good enough to win any respectable shoot.

You must be able to shoot 3" groups at 50yds to place.

The 12/11 ring (IBO X-ring) on McKenzie Elk is app. 3.5", 10-ring is app. 7.5"

According to TAP:

Bow Speed...............................280...........300fps
Distance Error +/- 2yds..........+/- 3.5".......+/- 3"
Distance Error +/- 3yds..........+/- 5.2".......+/- 4.5"
Distance Error +/- 5yds..........+/- 8.1"........+/- 7"

If we assume that you know exactly were the X-ring is while aiming, which not always is the case due to light conditions and target wear and tear) then it looks like 50/50 IMHO.


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## arkhotrock (May 13, 2005)

*if your shots not perfect*

went to see dan hart one weekend the most valuable advice i got was that on low 12's take your average group lets say 2" at 30 yards adjust your aim that your 2" will stay in the 10 ring at that distance. so be honest with yourself figure out your average groups at different distances. that way this will be a compromise between your shooting and your yardage.


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## low12z (Mar 27, 2005)

*yardage thing*

I have never been able to shoot 12 ring size groups at 40+ yards. Im wondering if anyone plays the low12 game the way i do. Everytime , unless Its 20-23-25 yards, I float to the top of the 12 and then sqeeze my shot off. the reason is because im not as sure about my distance as i am my shot exicution. I pick up alot of 12z. but it keeps me safe as well.I hate to admitt it but i dont shoot at lot of 12z,but my method keeps me in the top 5 most of the time


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Dan has helped many champions*



arkhotrock said:


> went to see dan hart one weekend the most valuable advice i got was that on low 12's take your average group lets say 2" at 30 yards adjust your aim that your 2" will stay in the 10 ring at that distance. so be honest with yourself figure out your average groups at different distances. that way this will be a compromise between your shooting and your yardage.


One of the best coachs there is in the buisness.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

I'm sticking with 75% judging... if I get within a yard stacking em in a 5" ring isn't the problem.... :teeth: 

Seeing an aiming point might be another thing.... one reason I invested in a set of 8.5X42 EL's.... I started to go 10X but I might shoot an IBO once in a while...

Finding the time to practice judging (Priceless)


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Its more yardage, If I shoot a bad shot it may still drop in a 12. If I misjudge one by 7 yards it better be a bad shot to hit anything. I'd say 75 percent yardage to be great.


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## Hollowpoint (Jul 10, 2003)

I think it's mostly yardage too.
I can do all kinds of stupid little mistakes, and still get the 10 ring if I have the yardage eyeballed correctly........but sometimes you'll make a pefect shot and blank the target 'cause you misjudged the range.
Aaaaaaw Pickles!!


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Well after a bunch of thought last night.... I've come to the conclusion that it is more like 90% judging and 10% shooting... in my case... 

I know that at 50 yards and in... if I can see it to aim at it and know the yardage I can hit it 99% of the time....


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

Darn it, I must be a great shot because my yardage estimate and eye sight are a real problem for me. I have very little lefts and rights, just highs and lows and I do very well and am improving in indoors and FITA.

For me this shooting skill is there. I am not sure of the yardage skill ever being there though. :thumbs_do I don't know which is more important but the yardage skill is much harder for me to master, if not impossible.


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

100/100=200%proof. Not more one than the other.If I spent 1/4 of the time judging yardage as compared to shooting form I might be able to shoot open.Pros not only can see the yardage but they can also hear the differance just by listening to the guy at 285fps that just shot before them.


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## atlasmlc (Nov 2, 2002)

I think its 70% Judging, 50% shooting, and the rest is all mental......


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I think for the upper echelon shooters its 99% judging......they're pretty much equal on shooting ability and it is the judging that deciding the winner, particularly in IBO shoots.

ASA shoots also take into consideration a little strategy so I'd say 80% judging, and 19% strategy for those shoots, and again they are so equal in shooting ability that it has little to do with the outcome of the event. I leave the 1% in there for when someone does actually mess up a shot...which isn't very often.

For the rest of us its a more varied. For instance I'm what I call a 95% shooter. That is about the percentage of shots that I get off without ginching or some other form screw up, lack of concentration/focus, or just plain get lazy. Yet, I beat most of the guys that outshoot me at spots and am competitive in the state level pro class. I'm no where near competitive at that same level at spot shoots. I know how to play the 3D game and have done it for a long time, and can more effectively concentrate for a single shot, and I'm very good at judging yardage, and have CONFIDENCE that I can hit that unmarked, invisible spot. I do not have that same confidence when shooting circular targets yet. 

For me its all about shooting, I feel I can judge yardage as good as McCarthy, but he'd beat me because he's a better shooter. I'm also not smart enough to realize my groups are larger than the ASA 12 ring at 45 yards and shoot at ALL of them regardless of the distance and conditions.  Its just a small character flaw that I have, but it makes it more fun to shoot.  Thats where the strategy of the game comes in. If Cousins knew the yardage, but didn't shoot at the ASA 12 he'd loose shooting even par. You have to know when and where to shoot at them.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

I think you could be right about the % Bob... 

Although I have no problem aiming a an invisible spot (way to much time blank baling) I do think a very good set of binoculars are necessary for those of us who don't have access to a full time range of current targets... The few shoots I've been to (local) have all had a hodgepodge of target brands so there is no continuity.


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## sdzumbro (May 21, 2002)

From the upper level amature classes to Open Pro I would say 90% yardage 10% shooting ability .
At that level If you don't have the number you don't have a chance .
Scott


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## W.Moua (Sep 27, 2004)

I would have to say 85% yardage and 15% shooting.
I can shoot that ASA 12 at 50 yards no problem, anytime anywhere as long as I know the yardage.
But if my yardage is off, guess what no matter how good of the shot was. It is going either high or low. I wish it went more high then low sometimes.

And yeah sometimes mental game comes into play too.
like say if you are 2 down from the leader do you still go for the 12 or just play safe and hope to catch a 12.

in 3-D it is all Yardage for the good shooter. then you got the average Joe shooter, then that is a 50/50.

Just my 2 cents


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## atlasmlc (Nov 2, 2002)

Judging yardage is almost as important as picking up your feet when you're walking, ain't it, Javi??!!


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

atlasmlc said:


> Judging yardage is almost as important as picking up your feet when you're walking, ain't it, Javi??!!


Now THATS funny......


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Bobmuley said:


> Now THATS funny......


You had to be there.....


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## Stroud Creek (Jan 13, 2004)

60/40 for me, with the 60% being yds. I don't do it that much but that is what I should do. I am 300, 55 X, 5 spot shooter and that is with my 3-D bow, so I feel I can make the shoot every time.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

That is the great thing about the internet. I didn't have to be there, but I still get to hear about it. Hopefully it was just one of those pride-breaking falls and nothing serious.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Bobmuley said:


> That is the great thing about the internet. I didn't have to be there, but I still get to hear about it. Hopefully it was just one of those pride-breaking falls and nothing serious.


Not even my pride was scratched... I'm used to falling on my face... :beer:


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## Target Tony (Mar 3, 2003)

i have to agree with Dan that for me its 65% range estimation and 35% shooting... when i get the yardage right im dead on .. but thats the problem for me now getting the yardage right... 

but its my own fault , i havent been practicing my range estimation and shooting local cupcake shoots are not conducive to being ready for a tough shoot like St Joseph... it showed that my range was way off not only on the flat stuff but the steep down hills and across ravine shots...

im working hard on it now , i just need more practice... :teeth: 

Shoot Strong
Tony


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## 2ndchance (Sep 19, 2004)

all i can say is the whole yardage thing has me guessing!??



its probably about 50/50 for me

but different for other archers. archers who can drill an x most of the time 0-50 yards will not be 50/50 because if they know how far they will put the arrow where it belongs. more like 25%shot/75%yardage guestimate.

Ty


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## low12z (Mar 27, 2005)

*yardage thing*

Know matter how well you can shoot you still have to know how far it is. most people have trouble with distance because shooting is alot more fun to practice.


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## 3Drebel (Jan 11, 2005)

*the guess*

I've found that the guess is the most critical factor, if you have that right, everything else is mechanics and consistancy, my opinion is 75/25


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## low12z (Mar 27, 2005)

*distance*

I think distance is more important because it is hard for me to exicute my shot correctly if im not sure of the distance. It inturupts my thought process when im not sure of my distance.


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## Kelly Johnson (May 22, 2005)

I imagined I'd see these varied responses.
It's really an individual thing I guess huh?

Some can judge very well and have a hard time with form

Others have decent form and have an issue with the yardage.

Javi...you come from Spotty background no?

That's where you can really tweak the form adn shooting platform at the most basic levels IMO...it's no wonder you'd have the 90-10 thing goin'. :wink: 

I'm probably not in the same league, but I'm the same way. If I know the yardage here to 60 or so....90% of the time I can make it count. But guessing where to move that sight????? INCOMING!!!


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## PA Bowman (Dec 11, 2003)

low12z said:


> I think distance is more important because it is hard for me to exicute my shot correctly if im not sure of the distance. It inturupts my thought process when im not sure of my distance.


I believe this is exactly accurate.
If I am not 100% confident in my yardage my shot isnt going to be perfect.
so I would say 
yardage80%
shooting 20%


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Oh… when I set my sight I’m 100% confident that I’m setting it for the yardage I guessed the target to be. Confidence isn’t an issue…. Being correct with my guess is the issue…. :mg: :tongue:


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## Target Tony (Mar 3, 2003)

well i shot a local course today.. i stood as far back from the regular stakes as possible and stretched things out a bit... 

i did make a few adjustments to my bow that definately helped a ton.. 
i got rid of that stinkin offset cable slide rod.. that thing made me shoot right all day long.. even after i made the sight corection for it.. it just seemed to make the bow more critical to shoot...

all in all i had a great day , maybe that range practice each day is helping.. :wink: 

i also got a haircut so maybe that had something to do with it ? :wink: 

Shoot strong
Tony


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

I have to think at the top level, open pro, it is 99.9% yardage. My reasoning behind it is fairly simple, Chance B. The man is a monster at hitting spots and an absolute shooting machine indoors. No one on the ASA circuit has beaten him consistantly the last 3 years. However, add in the yardage judging aspect and he has yet to make a shootdown in the same time frame. There is no doubt about the man's shooting ability, as I said he is a machine, apparently his yardage estimation is not quite on the same level as Hoppy or Danny..................


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## johnhames (Apr 9, 2003)

Javi, If I miss-set your sight by 5 yds and miss-set a rookie's sight by 5 yds, the rookie has a chance of hitting the X but you don't. You will correctly execute the shot and miss the X. The rookie will screw up the shot and may hit the X. I think you have to spend as much time as it takes to get good at judging yardage while at the same time maintaining if not increasing your shooting ability. Realizing time has to be delegated, still there are more opportunities to use a rangefinder than shoot your bow. Take the rangefinder everywhere except in the shower and just keep judging yardage.


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## LA Archer (Aug 8, 2003)

Someone said it earlier, it is more fun to shoot than to judge, I mean practice judging. Everyone likes to stuff arrows in a dot practicing, it makes them feel good. I shoot in the open class, Open A in ASA events and I think it is 85% ranging. In my class the guy with the number the most times in a shoot will win. Everyone can shoot 12's at 45-50 yds, but only if you got the number.

I think that when you judge a target you get a number and you have to commit to it. Once you commit, make the shot. People second guess their yardage often, if you have shot a lot of 3D you need to make sure that you listen to yourself.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

you have to have a lot of repeatable form before yardage is your main concern. 

to test where you are at: 
Mark off a known yardage target, shoot arrows, when you have no left and right misses and no up and down misses than and only than is yardage your largest concern. Their aren't a whole lot of shooters that only have yardage as thier only concern, in spite of what they might think..


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