# needing some specs to make a rope style tree strap.



## codykrr (Feb 6, 2011)

Ok so I hate using the belt style straps that go around the tree you clip your safety harness onto. There noisy, and always getting twisted..ect.

So I am wanting to make a rope style one like what HSS sells. but I need the specs for it as I can make on for less than 20 bucks(plus shipping). 

If someone has one, it would be nice to get some measurements of the rope. 

also some pictures would be helpful too.

Thanks.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

6 feet of 3/8 rope.


----------



## Shootin Jim (Dec 27, 2010)

11mm static line from a climbing shop such as REI. Then get some 6 or 8mm (I forget which) static line to make your prussic knot out of. Regular hardware store rope isn't rated for the shock of a falling person (momentum). Some of that stuff is hardly worthy of tying a boat to the dock if you read it's load ratings. 

If you're using a hang on, or ladder stand in the same spot all the time, it's probably better and cheaper to use the seatbelt strap and buy a dedicated carabiner to hook into that belt and leave it there all season. Load rated `biners are cheap @$3-4/ea, and the rope will cost you more than that. Once again, don't use a hardware store `biner, they're not made for holding people and don't have the appropriate QC testing done to them.

I use an 11mm rope when I use my Summit climber, but I'll use up the seatbelt straps I have on permanent stand sites until I run out of them. I've got some double wall 1" nylon webbing for permanent safety straps once those are gone.

Whatever you end up doing, don't cheap-out on it. This stuff is possibly less than your co-pay when done right, and cutting corners potentially risks your life. It's just not worth it.


----------



## codykrr (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks, I have a rock climbing shop near by. I planned on going up there to get squared away for rope. I know better to use hardware store grade stuff. Thanks for the input, and I will post pics of the propper DIY way.


----------



## Shootin Jim (Dec 27, 2010)

I think I got 6' of the main rope (plenty of extra, but not enough for 2) and 2' of the smaller stuff. Remember Pi x diameter when considering your length and add for the knots and tails. You need the smaller diameter to make the prussic function correctly. If the rope sizes are the same, it won't bite like it's supposed to.

All of this might be redundant for you, but I don't want someone assuming if they're reading this and don't already know. 

Oh, and locking carabiner's are a nice idea in theory, but I find they're just more time consuming in use.


----------



## NYBowNut (Feb 13, 2011)

Cabela's has them for $24.99. Just buy one and be safe!


----------



## Brad66 (Jun 7, 2008)

NYBowNut said:


> Cabela's has them for $24.99. Just buy one and be safe!


This is the DIY section. I cant see why the proper climbing rope and carabiners from a climbing store wouldn't be safe as its most likely the same stuff the HSS ones are made of. For 25 bucks he can make several!


----------



## NYBowNut (Feb 13, 2011)

Brad66 said:


> This is the DIY section. I cant see why the proper climbing rope and carabiners from a climbing store wouldn't be safe as its most likely the same stuff the HSS ones are made of. For 25 bucks he can make several!


You're absolutely right! besides, it's not me attached to it.


----------



## Flame-Tamer (Mar 1, 2009)

Prussix . Ask at the rock store.


----------



## dkoeppel (Mar 1, 2009)

Its 'Prussic' 

Very simple to tie - go to Google images and you'll see hundreds of images of them.


----------



## codykrr (Feb 6, 2011)

Guys, I am fully away of rock climbing, did it quite a bit.

I am sure that some of the rock climbing stuff is FAR superior to what HSS sells anyway.

I know all about prussic knots, and how to tie them as well. Sorry that you feel your DIY abilities arent good enough to trust your life with NYBOWNUT. Mine are. 

If you feel paying 25 bucks for it, then more power too you.

This ol' boy here is gunna do it myself and save money. I can guarantee you it will be as safe or safer than what HSS sells.


----------



## NYBowNut (Feb 13, 2011)

codykrr said:


> Guys, I am fully away of rock climbing, did it quite a bit.
> 
> I am sure that some of the rock climbing stuff is FAR superior to what HSS sells anyway.
> 
> ...


Look...All I'm saying is, someone that doesn't know about rope campatibilities and such may end up making something that has no chance of saving your life. There's a ton of reputable and inexpensive companies out there making this stuff. Why play around with safety equipment when someone has already done all the engineering. I think most of us can tie a knot but not too many understand the physics of fall arresting.


----------



## Shootin Jim (Dec 27, 2010)

I'd trust the stuff I bought at REI for climbing before I trusted a retail hunting fall arrest system. Tell their climbing person what you're doing and they'll assist in making the correct equipment purchases. The chinese kid making the seat belt strap might not care if you live or not.


----------



## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

Check this thread out:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=740683


----------



## codykrr (Feb 6, 2011)

NYBowNut said:


> Look...All I'm saying is, someone that doesn't know about rope campatibilities and such may end up making something that has no chance of saving your life. There's a ton of reputable and inexpensive companies out there making this stuff. Why play around with safety equipment when someone has already done all the engineering. I think most of us can tie a knot but not too many understand the physics of fall arresting.


I understand what your saying, but threads like this just might teach a person otherwise. 

I am going to go to the rock climbing place this week(if I get time) and see about materials. If the cost is too high I will be forced to buy a premade one(which for me isnt as trusted as something I can make) like said, that little chinese kid doesnt care if you live or die when he is making the mass manufactured lifelines/ rope style tree strap.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

I make my own life lines using 11mm Sterling dynamic climbing rope and 7mm PMI prussik cord. The dynamic rope has some "stretch" to it so if you do fall any distance it absorbs some of the shock. Static rope has NO give to it and you'll come to an abrupt stop if you fall. The smaller the prussik cord the better it will grip but it will be harder to break free. If the cord is too big it might not grip. 

Don't forget to check out climbing nylon runners, slings, nylon chains and tubular nylon webbing. They are super strong, made for climbing and rappelling and take up little space in your pack. I keep some prussik loops and nylon runners with me so I can get down if do fall.

A few good places to shop are Gear Xpress, REI, Eastern Mountain Sports and others. Gear Xpress also sells short ropes so you don't have to buy a whole coil.


----------



## Shootin Jim (Dec 27, 2010)

You're lucky you still have EMS there - I miss them.

My permanent stands will all have 11mm safety lines going to the ground. If you have problems with invaders using your stands, you can just make your own ascender out of two prussic's and a couple foot straps and not leave any "means" to get into the stand. This makes someone using your spot a lot less likely, as they can't quickly run off if they hear or see you coming; or at least not without leaving some ladder rails or screw steps behind.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

NYBowNut said:


> Look...All I'm saying is, someone that doesn't know about rope campatibilities and such may end up making something that has no chance of saving your life. There's a ton of reputable and inexpensive companies out there making this stuff. Why play around with safety equipment when someone has already done all the engineering. I think most of us can tie a knot but not too many understand the physics of fall arresting.


 Bro you act like going to a climbing store and buying some Climbing rope and carabiners is astrophysics or something, Tying a prussic knot is easier than tying your shoes!


----------



## Matt81302 (May 5, 2010)

Its funny I found this thread. Just the other day I was at Dicks looking at the HHS rope style tree strap and just thinking how cheap and easy it would be to make one of them. I wasn't sure what size/kind of rope to use. Now that I know what some of you guys use I do believe I will be making one for way less than $25. Thanks for the great info. guys.


----------



## Ancient Archer (Sep 25, 2008)

It's spelled either as Prussic or Prusik.

I purchased my static lifeline & Prussic rope from EMS. The 7/16" (11mm) static line is made by Sterling (http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3667686&cp=3677347.11360114#productDescription) & the Prussic (7mm) is also by Sterling http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3667687&cp=3677347.11360114.
I use either the Prussic knot http://www.animatedknots.com/prusik/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com, or the Klemheist knot http://www.animatedknots.com/klemhe...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com.

I've found that the static line has a hard hand to it which at times the Prussic knot didn't grab, so I tried the Klemheist knot & it seems to hold better on a hard rope. Using a softer rope for the Prussic solves this as it grabs better on the static line. Whatever your choice, just put a small jerk on the prussic after moving it up or down to be sure it holds.


----------



## NYBowNut (Feb 13, 2011)

Ancient Archer said:


> It's spelled either as Prussic or Prusik.
> 
> I purchased my static lifeline & Prussic rope from EMS. The 7/16" (11mm) static line is made by Sterling (http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3667686&cp=3677347.11360114#productDescription) & the Prussic (7mm) is also by Sterling http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3667687&cp=3677347.11360114.
> I use either the Prussic knot http://www.animatedknots.com/prusik/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com, or the Klemheist knot http://www.animatedknots.com/klemhe...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com.
> ...


as stated before: "rope compatibilities"... So, let me get this straight: You bought $30.00 worth of rope (before tax & shipping) and you have to be careful to make sure it holds? Funny, when I was personally on the phone with Jerry Wydner of HSS, he said they test all their ropes to make sure there are no safety issues. As I'm always one to stir the soup, I'll keep my $39.99 Chinese made HSS life line over your Chinese made, assembled in the US, rope that "might" work when you need it. Good luck.


----------



## Ancient Archer (Sep 25, 2008)

NYBowNut said:


> as stated before: "rope compatibilities"... So, let me get this straight: You bought $30.00 worth of rope (before tax & shipping) and you have to be careful to make sure it holds? Funny, when I was personally on the phone with Jerry Wydner of HSS, he said they test all their ropes to make sure there are no safety issues. As I'm always one to stir the soup, I'll keep my $39.99 Chinese made HSS life line over your Chinese made, assembled in the US, rope that "might" work when you need it. Good luck.


*My, what a frail little mind you have. If you weren’t so intent on criticizing others, perhaps you might learn from them. As was stated previously by another, this is a DIY forum where people that have these skills enjoy doing things for themselves. It’s a forum where these ideas and suggestions are conveyed to those willing to learn something new. Then again, there are those who lack the creativity and motivation to do things for themselves, and who find more comfort in paying others to do for them what they cannot do for themselves, and who prefer to criticize those with the skill sets they lack.

If you had taken the time to understand my post, you might have discerned several things:
•	A rope with a hard exterior surface, although very strong and withstands abuse and abrasion well, tends to be a bit more smooth than a rope with a softer hand. 
•	The rope I referenced in my post as the main line has a tensile strength of 6,744 lbs.
•	I happen to own a HSS Pro Series vest and was told by one of the owners at HSS, the same Jerry Wydner you referenced, that their main line is rated at 5,700 lbs. and that this rating was intended to safely absorb the momentum of a 300 lb person in a severe fall, during which the stitching of the tether would release to soften the fall to the wearer. My mainline rope serves the same purpose, but with greater strength and better wear characteristics, including weather deterioration. It is used not only by climbers, but also by first responders in emergency situations.
•	Also, their Prussic loop rope is rated at 3,500 lbs. The rope I use for the Prussic loop is rated at almost 5,000 lbs. However, it also has a hard exterior surface. So, I tried a Klemheist knot & found it holds better than the Prussic knot when both ropes have a hard hand.
•	Further, when I stated that a soft rope used for the Prussic knot will cinch up better on a hard rope than one also having a hard surface, it was to point out the difference in cinching of either rope.
•	I also stated that it is a good practice to give a short tug on the Prussic loop as a precaution. I chose these ropes for this application based on the recommendation of a climbing instructor, who also suggested that an initial tug on the Prussic loop is always a good idea*.

*If you want to take exception to this, go for it, as I don’t think anyone cares, I certainly don't!*.


----------



## NYBowNut (Feb 13, 2011)

...some things just shouldn't be DIY. but by all means, have at it.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Ancient Archer said:


> It's spelled either as Prussic or Prusik.
> 
> I purchased my static lifeline & Prussic rope from EMS. The 7/16" (11mm) static line is made by Sterling (http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3667686&cp=3677347.11360114#productDescription) & the Prussic (7mm) is also by Sterling http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3667687&cp=3677347.11360114.
> I use either the Prussic knot http://www.animatedknots.com/prusik/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com, or the Klemheist knot http://www.animatedknots.com/klemhe...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com.
> ...


Like you I am also using the klemheist for most of my loops now. Not only does it seem to grab better but it's a whole lot easier to unload after it's been weighted, plus it's so much easier and faster to tie. I am going to learn to tie and experiment with the *Schwabisch* hitch. A lot of tree workers use it and claim it's better than the prussic. I'd have to play with it a lot on the ground to see how it does before I would trust it.

You said that you use static line, are you using something to absorb some of the shock, like a "screamer", in case of a fall? They're made just like the breakaway stitched webbing on harnesses. If you're like me and tied in close, there would be very little shock anyway because I wouldn't fall very far at all, less than a foot.


----------



## Ancient Archer (Sep 25, 2008)

houser52 said:


> Like you I am also using the klemheist for most of my loops now. Not only does it seem to grab better but it's a whole lot easier to unload after it's been weighted, plus it's so much easier and faster to tie. I am going to learn to tie and experiment with the *Schwabisch* hitch. A lot of tree workers use it and claim it's better than the prussic. I'd have to play with it a lot on the ground to see how it does before I would trust it.
> 
> You said that you use static line, are you using something to absorb some of the shock, like a "screamer", in case of a fall? They're made just like the breakaway stitched webbing on harnesses. If you're like me and tied in close, there would be very little shock anyway because I wouldn't fall very far at all, less than a foot.


The tether strap on my HHS Pro Series vest is stitched in such a way that if I had a severe fall, i.e. a full body weight impact load on the safety harness, the stitching would yield to absorb the shock of falling. The tether would still remain attached to the vest strapping, it's like it's stitched, folded over onto itself & stitched again. If the fall is not severe, then the tether stitching doesn't yield.

Also, I use two (2) loops using the Klemheist knot. The top loop is to hold my weight in the event of a fall. The second is longer & would be used to place my foot after a fall. I would use the lower loop to take the strain off my lower leg, as the suspension relief strap would do, and I could combine the use of both loops to lower myself if necessary.

I wasn't aware of the Schawisch hitch knot. I just looked it up & watched a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4EJ2KHg1FU) & think it's pretty neat. I'll be using it in the future. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## erhodes121 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Pics*

Anyboby have any pics of these made up. I want to make sure that I secure the ends of the rope the best way possible.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

I'll try to post some pics for you. Gonna be getting the dove field ready tomorrow but I'll take some pics if it's not too late.


----------



## Shootin Jim (Dec 27, 2010)

Ancient Archer said:


> I wasn't aware of the Schawisch hitch knot. I just looked it up & watched a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4EJ2KHg1FU) & think it's pretty neat. I'll be using it in the future. Thanks for the heads up.


+1 Thanks for the link. Slick set up with the pulley.


----------



## Matt81302 (May 5, 2010)

I finally found a website that sales the rope, want to make mine out of, by the foot and has reasonable shipping. After shipping it is going to be a little over $14. That is with out a new carabiner. I dont know much about carabiners. What would you guys recommend? I seen that there are aluminum ones and steel ones. I couldnt find anything about the max weight they could hold. I probably just need to go to a climbing store and talk to someone about them. Kinda defeats the purpose of wearing a safety harness with the wrong carabiner that is just going to break if I fall. I may just end up using the one that came with my harness. Great thread though, keep it going.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

$14 sounds awful cheap for climbing rope.
Be sure that you are buying rope and carabiners that are made for climbing and not the stuff that's sold at hardware stores. Just google "rock climbing equipment" and there are lots of suppliers to choose from. 

Ropes and climbing equipment are rated in Kilonewtons (Kn). 1- Kilonewton is approx. = 225 pounds. My carabiners are rated at 25 Kn or 5625 pounds, end to end with the gate closed. I use 11.2mm Dynamic climbing rope and it's impact force is rated at 8.7 Kn or 1950 pounds and will withstand falling 8 times. ( I hope I don't fall even once )
I also use 7mm PMI prussic cord with a breaking strength of about 2700 pounds. It's limber, ties and grips well.

Climbing rope manufacturers have a lot of good info on their websites. Blue Water Ropes, PMI and Sterling Ropes are just a few to check out. 

Keep in mind that after doing a lot of research, this equipment is what I use to protect myself and I trust it. Climbers have used this stuff for years and they're a lot harder on equipment that we hunters would ever be. 

Just make sure that you research it for yourself and just don't take someone's word.


----------



## Matt81302 (May 5, 2010)

houser52 said:


> $14 sounds awful cheap for climbing rope.
> Be sure that you are buying rope and carabiners that are made for climbing and not the stuff that's sold at hardware stores. Just google "rock climbing equipment" and there are lots of suppliers to choose from.
> 
> Ropes and climbing equipment are rated in Kilonewtons (Kn). 1- Kilonewton is approx. = 225 pounds. My carabiners are rated at 25 Kn or 5625 pounds, end to end with the gate closed. I use 11.2mm Dynamic climbing rope and it's impact force is rated at 8.7 Kn or 1950 pounds and will withstand falling 8 times. ( I hope I don't fall even once )
> ...


Thanks Houser. The website is Karstsports.com. The rope I am planning to buy is about the same as you use. 8 feet of 7/16 static rope($1.02 per ft.) and 2 feet of 6mm accessory cord($0.36 per ft.) The static rope has a tensile strength of 8,000 lbs. and the accessory cord has a tensile strenght of 2,260 lbs. That is exactly the info. I need about "Kn". They have that listed I just didn't know what "Kn" was, now I know which one to get. Thanks.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Matt81302 said:


> Thanks Houser. The website is Karstsports.com. The rope I am planning to buy is about the same as you use. 8 feet of 7/16 static rope($1.02 per ft.) and 2 feet of 6mm accessory cord($0.36 per ft.) The static rope has a tensile strength of 8,000 lbs. and the accessory cord has a tensile strenght of 2,260 lbs. That is exactly the info. I need about "Kn". They have that listed I just didn't know what "Kn" was, now I know which one to get. Thanks.


After I replied I got to thinking, maybe he's not buying a whole lot of rope and that's the reason it sounded cheap. LOL. My mistake. 

Sounds like you're all set with good stuff. Have fun and stay safe.


----------



## hfc76 (Jan 11, 2010)

FYI- the Klemhiest is also known as an autoblock or french prussik. I have worked on a challenge course for ten years and have carried over a lot of my safety practices to hunting. Absolutely nothing wrong with doing this yourself if you have a little bit of know how. If your not sure hook it up near the ground and try out a full weight fall where, if you drop, its only a foot off the ground.


----------



## jco (Jun 12, 2010)

Find later.


----------



## Matt81302 (May 5, 2010)

Finally ordered my rope. Figured I'd better get on the ball since season opens up in 14 days from tomorrow. I will post some pics when it comes in and I get it made up.


----------



## Matt81302 (May 5, 2010)

Well I got my rope in today and have been playing around with different knots. I'm going to go with the Schawisch knot. I was messing around in the yard and liked that one better than the prussik and Klemhiest. I did learn one thing while I was hanging in the tree, testing different knots. The thing I learned is, I hope I never fall!!! I didn't do a full out fall, but I dropped pretty abruptly and that doesn't feel good at all. Better than hitting the ground though. Here are a few pics.


----------



## Shootin Jim (Dec 27, 2010)

Not to rag on you, but you need to change those knots. Neither is a proper figure 8, and even a figure 8 is best used with a stopper knot after it.

Prussic uses three wraps around the main line too btw.

I'd show you mine, but they're up north.


----------



## codykrr (Feb 6, 2011)

Also a tip is to offset the knot of your accessory rope you dont want your carabeaner to rest directly onto your knot in a fall.


----------



## codykrr (Feb 6, 2011)

Also Id suggest getting either the 1/2 or 5/8 inch static rope from that sight, as the 7/16 is rated for "light use". I would also go with the 7mm accessory cord.


----------



## Punch_Free4L (Mar 25, 2007)

houser52 said:


> Like you I am also using the klemheist for most of my loops now. Not only does it seem to grab better but it's a whole lot easier to unload after it's been weighted, plus it's so much easier and faster to tie. I am going to learn to tie and experiment with the *Schwabisch* hitch. A lot of tree workers use it and claim it's better than the prussic. I'd have to play with it a lot on the ground to see how it does before I would trust it.
> 
> You said that you use static line, are you using something to absorb some of the shock, like a "screamer", in case of a fall? They're made just like the breakaway stitched webbing on harnesses. If you're like me and tied in close, there would be very little shock anyway because I wouldn't fall very far at all, less than a foot.


what knot would you tie in on the ends of your line attaching to your carabiner for your "loops" ?

This definitely looks like a better way to go then the prusik knot,this knot seems to grab hold a lot better.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Punch_Free4L said:


> what knot would you tie in on the ends of your line attaching to your carabiner for your "loops" ?
> 
> This definitely looks like a better way to go then the prusik knot,this knot seems to grab hold a lot better.



Are you talking about the knot that joins two rope ends to form a loop or a knot to form an eye on each end of a rope?


----------



## Punch_Free4L (Mar 25, 2007)

houser52 said:


> Are you talking about the knot that joins two rope ends to form a loop or a knot to form an eye on each end of a rope?


I guess it would be the eye on each end that you would attach to the carabiner.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

You can use a figure 8 knot on each end to form the eyes. You can also order a factory sewn eye-n-eye from a company that sells tree climbing equipment but they are expensive.


----------



## Punch_Free4L (Mar 25, 2007)

houser52 said:


> You can use a figure 8 knot on each end to form the eyes. You can also order a factory sewn eye-n-eye from a company that sells tree climbing equipment but they are expensive.


ok,thanks for the info.:darkbeer:


----------



## outdoorsdad4 (Feb 23, 2010)

Shootin Jim said:


> I'd trust the stuff I bought at REI for climbing before I trusted a retail hunting fall arrest system. Tell their climbing person what you're doing and they'll assist in making the correct equipment purchases. The chinese kid making the seat belt strap might not care if you live or not.


 I agree with you about the DIY stuff being more trustworthy,but you do know that the same chinese kid making the strap, also makes the harness that we al strap ourselves into. Anyone made a DIY harness?


----------



## itallushrt (Sep 14, 2006)

NYBowNut said:


> ...some things just shouldn't be DIY. but by all means, have at it.


Are you being serious? If anything this SHOULD be DIY so you know exactly what you are working with and how it will perform.


----------



## pns (Oct 11, 2007)

can anayone tell me a good biners to get rated high but not to bad in the pocket.


----------



## Punch_Free4L (Mar 25, 2007)

pns said:


> can anayone tell me a good biners to get rated high but not to bad in the pocket.


http://shop.blackjackmountainoutfit...2B0FB091B7EAB00165E8E4FCE3B16455.qscstrfrnt01


----------



## straitnarrow (Nov 22, 2011)

I climb trees for a living. First and foremost I'd trust me tying a knot more than someone on an assembly line anyday. No offense to anyone who wouldn't, we are dealing with our livelyhood here. Second it's spelt PRUSIK and to make proper prusik that is going to be safe you have to make a loop by tying a GRAPEVINE KNOT wich consist of 2 DOUBLE FISHERMAN KNOTS tied up opposite of eachother so the slide together and cinch tight this goes for your klemheist and your schwabisch also. You then want to wrap you prusik 3 times so your rope comes out the middle of the wraps and there is 3 wraps on top and 3 on bottom also the grape vine knot should be the loop that comes out and not wrapped around your rope. And as for your standing end of your rope (the rope you wrap around the tree) tie a figure eight in the end just as a back up if you were to ever have knot failure. Here is a link to Sherill Tree's learning center wich can teach someone alot. This is just there knots page that have all the knots mentioned in this post so far and shows you what they look like and what they are used for.
http://www.sherrilltree.com/Learning-Center/Knots

And as for carabiners in the tree care industry everything has a 23kn minimum rating and are double locking, on my tree harness for hunting I use a Petzl William wich is a HMS carabiner and is used in rescue situations. But you could also us the OK or the AM'd just be sure they are rated at 23 kn or over. Same with your ropes, and I realize everyone is trying to save money instead of buying ungodly priced "top of the line" fall arrest systems. But be sure you get the right stuff at least the "top of the line" stuff is said to be rated. If your not sure what your doing ask or do a lot of research online what ever it may be get all the info you need before climbing 20 feet in the air and hoping for the best. I believe some one else said it before on this post try it close to the ground so you only fall 6 inches or a foot. But even then can be careful I watched a guy at work mess his back up real bad only falling a foot or so. Good luck and be safe to anyone who trys it.


----------

