# ILF vs one piece



## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

IMHO nothing carries like a fine one piece and nothing shoots like a well thought out ILF rig


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Depends on the specs and who made it. That goes for either one.

Generally a low-end ILF will beat-out an equally low-end one-piece though.

-Grant


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

The thing about a one piece is that it is what it is and thats that. 

With an ILF bow - you can adjust the tiller - say you start shooting split finger and decide to shoot 3 under later - you can change the tiller.

Say you injur yourself and want to shoot a lighter bow for a while - with an ILF you can buy some cheap limbs for less than $100.00 to keep shooting till your better.

With an ILF you can adjust the preload so that the bow is drawing as smooth as possible at your individual draw length - and if your draw length changes as your form developes - you can readjust it - you can't do that with a one piece.

The only advantage with a one piece is if you like how it looks


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Hey Sharp, welcome back! I haven't been on here a lot lately and didn't realize you were back. I agree with you on the pros and con's of ILF vs. one piece. The only advantage of a one piece is that they are generally lighter to tote around. Other than that the versatility of an ILF makes them a much better choice I think.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Every bow has a unique personality and connected feel with the user. Oddly, one may desire to sacrifice performance in favor of an elusive psychic match-up with a particular bow (witness Willie Nelson's guitar for the musical equivalent of this concept). 

I shoot multiple types of bows, including an ILF, and each bow is my favorite when in hand. I do have my "desert island" favorites as well (but, like children in a family, I don't let them know this dark secret!). 

Try an ILF if possible. You may take to it and find your Holy Grail. While you're at it, try any other type of bow that strikes your fancy. Absent this, search the threads and look at pictures and commentary on everything out there. Thousands of possibilities, and with rare exception, each wondrous in its own way. 

Good luck.


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## guyver (Jan 3, 2012)

Own both, shoot ILF 95% of the time for various reasons. Bottom line is i shoot ILF better. One peice bows are light (not really a desirable trait unless your hiking for miles) and can be very beautiful.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Both are bows and both will shoot as well as *you* can manage. Anyone that tells you one shoots better than the other is pulling it. Keep in mind that simply stating ILF vs One piece is not a very good comparison considering the wide varieties of each. With ILF you have a great amount of combinations between limbs and risers. One piece bows could either be Selfbows, longbows, forward handle lb's, One piece recurves with endless possibilities in design.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

ILF for all the reasons above plus for me the ease of traveling with it. Taking a 66" longbow through an airport is far harder the stuffing an ilf rig in your bag.
Having said that, the pleasure of shooting my Fox Triple Crown sometimes outweighs the hassle.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Ill take the ILF set up over one piece. just alot of options and the accuracy is awsome. I do like my omega one piece longbow alot though, very light weight, fast and accurate. I love having both


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

It's really hard to beat the practicality of a take down bow, and the ILF feature makes the take down even more versatile. Lots of people shoot better with a bow that has more mass, another win for the ILF. Being able to try lots of different limb designs, lengths, and draw weights on the same riser...win for the ILF. Adjustable tiller and draw weight...win for the ILF. 

_But_...if you find a one piece recurve or longbow you like, there's nothing like them. Elegant, simple, and beautiful with no regard at all to travel, practicality or versatility. I've yet to see a take down recurve that is as nice to look at as a good one piece. 

I've never had an ILF bow, but that's just because I'm happy with what I have. That said, I'd love to have a nice ILF recurve. I'm a sucker for pretty wood so I frequently drool over the Morrison ILF risers. Now if only Norm Johnson from Blacktail Bows would make and ILF riser...:dancing:


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## guyver (Jan 3, 2012)

LongStick64 said:


> Both are bows and both will shoot as well as *you* can manage. Anyone that tells you one shoots better than the other is pulling it...


Hmm...disagree. I think the point your making is that it's the archer, not the bow, that shoots better/has skill, but an archer will prefer one over the other, most likely. If you're mission is to shoot the best you can then I doubt a one peice is what your after, this is true for me atleast.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

So if I'm understanding you, you are saying that hands down any archer shooting an ILF bow will shoot an ILF better than any other bow ????


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

LongStick64 said:


> So if I'm understanding you, you are saying that hands down any archer shooting an ILF bow will shoot an ILF better than any other bow ????


99% of the time yes, no question. Especially compared to a 1-piece.

-Grant


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## guyver (Jan 3, 2012)

LongStick64 said:


> So if I'm understanding you, you are saying that hands down any archer shooting an ILF bow will shoot an ILF better than any other bow ????


Not what I said, but I agree with that more than your statement.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

I would also have to rate an ILF comparison as to where it is being applied. Compared to my target/barebow risers, my Pinnacle II is not even in the ballpark on shootability, as weight and balance go to bow not the shooter. For me, other than having takedown feature, the Pinnacle just has the minimal function related to limb adjustment, but the overall bow is no better a shooter than any single piece recurve shot off the shelf.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Then we need to define the application of the bow. I can see where a 70" ILF rig might be the choice on the range but I can't see it being any way better than a 58" one piece recurve when I'm in the woods on my knees attempting to shoot game.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I shoot 70" ILF bows just fine in the woods; one knee, under stuff, you name it. Blinds pose the only problem, but I don't shoot from blinds. Then again I've spent a lot of time shooting +70" selfbows.

-Grant


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## recurveman (May 27, 2008)

Easykeeper I am with you if Norm only made an ILF Riser...momma mia...count me in for two.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Easykeeper said:


> It's really hard to beat the practicality of a take down bow, and the ILF feature makes the take down even more versatile. Lots of people shoot better with a bow that has more mass, another win for the ILF. Being able to try lots of different limb designs, lengths, and draw weights on the same riser...win for the ILF. Adjustable tiller and draw weight...win for the ILF.
> 
> _But_...if you find a one piece recurve or longbow you like, there's nothing like them. Elegant, simple, and beautiful with no regard at all to travel, practicality or versatility. I've yet to see a take down recurve that is as nice to look at as a good one piece.
> 
> I've never had an ILF bow, but that's just because I'm happy with what I have. That said, I'd love to have a nice ILF recurve. I'm a sucker for pretty wood so I frequently drool over the Morrison ILF risers. Now if only Norm Johnson from Blacktail Bows would make and ILF riser...:dancing:


I agree with everything Easy has said here 

I have an old 560 and a Schafer one piece that if I'm driving deer and hiking are pure magic and I love them but I will be hunting with a 60 inch ILF rig this year just because I do shoot it better on the whole


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## Bandman72 (Aug 25, 2009)

The reason I have a one piece is because it allows me to shoot another class at 3D tournaments...I like to shoot 1) one piece long bow/wood arrows 2) open class long bow with any arrow 3) Recurve with any arrow 4) Self bow with wood arrows. TBOT (traditional bowhunters of Texas) also has a recurve with wood arrow class. 

Take the advice of Lil Okie (taught me bout all I know about traditional)...."A man can't have too many bows!"


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

ILF's?: I can adapt the bow to me.

One piece?: I hafta adapt to the bow.

and i love doing both....pending mood for the day.


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## drenalinhunter1 (Feb 6, 2009)

I have a stupid question....what does ILF stand for? I understand its a takedown bow but have never heard the term.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

drenalinhunter1 said:


> I have a stupid question....what does ILF stand for? I understand its a takedown bow but have never heard the term.


International Limb Fitment.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

drenalinhunter1 said:


> I have a stupid question....what does ILF stand for? I understand its a takedown bow but have never heard the term.


I think it's International Limb Fitting.

Ray :shade:


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## ChadMR82 (Sep 22, 2009)

They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Get whichever you like the most. I think it is very important to shoot a piece of equipment that we are happy with. Get whichever bow your "gut" tells you to get. If you end up liking traditional archery you will soon buy the other bow anyway :wink:


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I do like them both, the handy ILF and the sleek, sexy one piece bows like an old 60s Howatt Monterey or Hunter. I think if I were going on a hunt out west I'd pack the ILF with a couple of pair of limbs for convenience though.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

You can't really say that an ILF setup will always be better than a one piece and certainly not more accurate. The largest advantage an ILF setup has is the ability to adjust the limb bolts to modify pre-load, pounds at full draw and tiller. Some ILF setups allow you to switch grips or use a plunger but not all. So the only true commonality among ILF bows it the adjustable limbs. The main advantage that provides is the ability to adjust the bow to the user to a small degree and also to tune the bow to the arrows, again to a small degree. 

The shooting characteristics such as speed, smoothness and noise are largely dependent on the limbs. Most ILF limbs are good to exceptional in quality but each type of limb will have different qualities so finding the right limbs can sometimes be a process of trial and error. Accuracy is soley up to the archer. ILF setups are not inherently more accurate. Many of the risers are good forgiving designs. However, if you take a well designed one piece and compare it to a well designed ILF setup you'll find the differences to be extremely small.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I know of no 1-piece designs that offer the mass weight, balance or performance of a top-level ILF target bow. Unless we look at vintage target bows from the era just before take-downs became popular, but they have nowhere near the performance due to needing heavy arrows and B50 strings.
Maybe 1 or two modern proprietary takedown designs can compete (Stolid Bull or Border BD), the Stolids are almost ILF but proprietary (like Hoyt paralever).

Really its apples to oranges.

-Grant


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> I know of no 1-piece designs that offer the mass weight, balance or performance of a top-level ILF target bow. Unless we look at vintage target bows from the era just before take-downs became popular, but they have nowhere near the performance due to needing heavy arrows and B50 strings.
> Maybe 1 or two modern proprietary takedown designs can compete (Stolid Bull or Border BD), the Stolids are almost ILF but proprietary (like Hoyt paralever).
> 
> Really its apples to oranges.
> ...


Also depends on what your goals are Grant...hunt?..or pop paper?..and i for one wouldn't wanna take a bear grizzly to an indoor tourny anymore than i'd wanna take a luxor hunting...jmho.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Good number of deer have fallen to a 650 Club, Hoyt GMX and other 25" risers. Can't say the same of indoor indoor titles and one-piece bows.

I have yet to be beat at indoor or 3D by anyone shooting something other than a long ILF bow since I picked one up over a year ago, just saying.

-Grant


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Grants right and I'm loving my ILF rigs, but just for fun today when I got home from work I changed walked up to my bow rack and instead of grabbing one of my ILF rigs ............ I grabbed a 60 inch 57 @ 28 inch one piece Silver Tip and man what can I say.

There was a bit more of a strum to the string and a little buzz but any bow would have some compared to the all phenolic risered bow that I've been shooting. The bow was smooth as the tips folded out and Likes the same arrows as my other primary hunting bows. 

It shot where I looked and put a smile on my face. Carrying it around as I shot from different angles brought back many memories of carrying fine one pieces in the field.

Nothing feels like a good one piece some days


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Well Said :thumbs_up

The argument that a heavy riser is the problem solver to accuracy is true only to someone that feels more comfortable with the heavier riser. The irony is that Every single Olympic archer ADDS more weight to their rigs. So let's strip the ILF rig to just riser and limbs and are we really gaining that much over a wood bow ???


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Great looking bow JP! One piece 'tip...what's not to like about that...:wink:


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Long sticks I'm not gonna lie I'm going to hunt with my Morrison ILF and 17 inch Titan ILF when I get it this year. Not that I don't have confidence in my one pieces , my first 3 arrows where right where I was looking with the tip and I have not shot it all summer.

It's just that this year I want to shoot the ILF stuff. But on a day that I gotta carry a long way like doing deer drives etc. I can always see me grabbing a one piece. 

For the kind of shooting and hunting I do the advantage of my ILF rigs over a one piece is not as big a deal as it would be for say what Grant is talking about taking a pure target bow and comparing it to today's one pieces

Both are great and that's why I shoot similar weight bows that have similar casts so I can grab any of them and in a few shots be confident


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Easykeeper said:


> Great looking bow JP! One piece 'tip...what's not to like about that...:wink:



You've got good taste, so a compliment fro you is well recieved  Thx


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

LongStick64 said:


> Well Said :thumbs_up
> 
> The argument that a heavy riser is the problem solver to accuracy is true only to someone that feels more comfortable with the heavier riser. The irony is that Every single Olympic archer ADDS more weight to their rigs. So let's strip the ILF rig to just riser and limbs and are we really gaining that much over a wood bow ???


Try a BB specific riser such as a 650 Club, Nilo, Moon or Zenit. Different animal then a Oly riser stripped down.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Grant I've been down that road and for my shooting I haven't seen the greater good in an ILF vs a non ILF rig. I still have a Hoyt Horizon riser with BM limbs and the rig is a great shooter but no so great that it shames everything else I own. Personally own a Border Griffon GL that shoot as well as any ILF rig I've owned and has great cast and it does it all in a much lighter weight bow. But I will say my shots are all less than 20 yards, hunting distances in the Northeast. So for what I shoot at and the distance provided, if any advantage truly exists it has not presented itself sufficiently for me jump completely into a BB rig over for example a BW PAX that I shoot damn well.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> Good number of deer have fallen to a 650 Club, Hoyt GMX and other 25" risers. Can't say the same of indoor indoor titles and one-piece bows.
> 
> I have yet to be beat at indoor or 3D by anyone shooting something other than a long ILF bow since I picked one up over a year ago, just saying.
> 
> -Grant


Grant...and i'm just saying..wether i was going to do some stalking or stand work...espcially if it were in a cold climate?..i'd much rather have a nice light warm good shooting wood bow in my hand than...."a 650 Club, Hoyt GMX and/or other 25" risers". 

But?...thats just my personal preferance for a "in the woods" bow...and i also wouldn't want it to be more than 62"s amo.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Your Horizon really isn't in the same category as a dedicated BB riser, there really is that much difference. I've owned a 25" Oly riser and 3 different BB specific risers. All were different, but all shot better than a stripped-down oly riser does.
Now you may find that you don't shoot one any better than your other bows. But from the shoots I've attended, there is a real difference in the performance of a good ILF riser and limbs over pretty much everything else. The results speak for themselves.

-Grant


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## deepsprayj (Nov 4, 2011)

Do you guys think the Ilf stuff is getting away from basics? I kinda do. I have owned all kinds of bows and when I want a quick dozen shots in the yard I grab my one piece bows. If I want to fiddle with things then I play with the ILF and the compounds. They are all great but lately I have been loving shootingg my grizzly in the yard.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I had a good weekend shooting my 58" Saluki Ibex split finger, they put Instinctive div in with Barebow div, I managed to hold my own on all the elimination rounds and the final was a breeze as the Latvian Barebow guy missed the first target, a 19y bunny. WA3D is about pressure shooting and I think he folded in front of the spectators and Tv camera, once I had nailed the bunny it was pretty easy to relax and continue shooting well.

My feeling is the one piece Saluki requires better form and is harder to shoot well on my slightly off days, it needs a lot more practice\work to keep at a good shooting level, with my Nilo it can sit on shelf for two weeks and I can shoot it great within 5min of picking it up. They both have great shooting potential just the wood bow requires a little more dedication to get the best out of it.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

Grant,
You're talking about barebow specific riser which are generally 23-25" risers and shot using an elevated rest/plunger combo. Even still those risers utilize the same geometry that standard target ILF risers have and the main concession that makes them barebow friendly is the addition of weight in the lower half of the riser (be it a large lower section like the Spig 650 Club or integral weights like the Best models incorporate). Those are a little different animal than many of the ILF bows your average trad guy shoots. Most of those are standard geometry short ILF risers. Most aren't bottom weighted and don't have a very neutral balance. As I said earlier ILF limb perfomance depends on the limb model. I've shot a lot of ILF equipment and one piece bows. To date, the highest performance limbs (raw speed) have been from carbon backed hybrid bows. Mass weight generally isn't as high but that's relative to bow design. I find that a well-thought out one piece doesn't need a lot of mass if the balance is in the right spot... especially when shot with a low grip.

Personally, after several years of shooting ILF bows, I prefer one piece and bolt on takedown bows (although I don't currently own any of the latter). I hunt and shoot 3D competitively. My bows serve dual purpose. I prefer the hybrid longbows because the speed, stablity and overall shootability of them... not to mention the ease in which I can silence them for hunting. I do think if you compare a 25" barebow ILF rig to a short 60-62" one piece you're talking about different animals. But, you can shoot a 66-68" hybrid that has all the balance, performance and stability an ILF bow has. Even some of the longer one piece recurves are right up there. For example, Dave Eatmon shot a 66" one piece wooden recurve his dad, Del, designed and made. Dave was a national champion and, I believe, national record holder, in the NFAA trad class shooting field rounds. I believe he was shooting scores up in the 470's. To me that just means it comes down far more to the archer than the bow. 

My bow of preference is a 50# carbon backed hybrid that maintains a D shape strung. It's 66", fairly light in the hand and balances right in the center of the grip. Recently I went to a really high anchor to get my point on down for 3D. It works but I don't like it. So, a couple weeks ago I tried stringwalking with that bow off the shelf with my normal lower anchor point. I can crawl down the string about 1.25" before my arrow flight gets a little squirrely but from one inch down to point on I don't have to hold off at all. I've got a point on of about 40 yards with fairly long arrows. I shot about 20 arrows to figure rough crawls out. Didn't shoot at all for a week. Last weekend I attended a 3D shoot string walking my longbow and shot a great score on a course setup by compound shooters. Average shot was around 25-35 yards, a couple deer, caribou targets out past 40, some small targets out around 25ish. I had a couple off shot because I didn't trust my crawls but that was more from a lack of familiarity than anything. Point of this is I ended up beating my good buddy by a close margin and he's one of the best competitive barebow recurve 3D shots around. I only bring this up because I really believe there are one piece bows that are every bit as good and accurate as ILF bows and it's up to the shooter to exploit that.


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## Bongos (Nov 9, 2011)

I cant really put them as Oranges and Oranges, ILF uses elevated rests and adjustable to the shooter, that in itself is an advantage, yet on a shoot contest (3D targets at undetermined ranges, incline, decline elevation out to 50 yards) we had a few months ago, out of over three hundred archers (most with ILF rigs (IBO Style as it is a "no sights" competition)), my buddy came in third place and did it with a Palmer shooting off the shelf (granted at twenty yards he was hitting all twelve arrows in a 3" group).. the other two were ILF


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

with all this one piece talk I shot my omega alot at denton hill last week and it actually worked really well for me, im still more accurate with the titan and long carbon/woods but the omega held its own for sure. today I went to shoot the ILF and saw my old kodiak sitting there. grabed that and some arrows and man that bow is a shooter the grip on the bow just works for me so well and it is a tack driver. I do enjoy the one piece. need at least one of each


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## Bowbodger (Apr 7, 2011)

I like both one piece bows and ILF although I havent been shooting ILF long enough to say whether I shoot one more accurately than the other. Also my only ILF rig is an Oly bow with Sureloc sight, V-bar, full target stabilizers, plunger and top of the line magnetic fully adjustable flipper rest. My one piece vintage target bows I shoot with an elevated rest (hoyt pro rest or bear weatherrest) but no sights, no stabilizer, nothing else. So in my case its not an Apples to Apples comparison. If I added a long stabilizer and sight to one of my one piece bows it would be closer.

My longbows I shoot off the shelf so more chance for arrow fletch contact with the riser If everything is not perfect with my form. 

If I stripped down the ILF bow to just riser and limbs and replaced the rest with a stick on with no plunger I am not sure it would shoot any better or be any easier to get a perfect tune than any of my Vintage target recurves. The ILF is definately more versatile/adaptable/ and tunable to arrow spine, shooting style etc. It also has the advantage of easy quick limb changes and a very large selection of limbs being readily available. And most ILF risers are already drilled and tapped for any accessories you could ever wish to add.

I like shooting both but like some others have said if I have to carry it any distance. maneuver through woods etc I prefer the one piece, same goes for those days when I only have a little time to shoot I grab one of my one piece bows string it up, grab a few arrows and go shoot. Quicker than putting the ILF together, attaching, plunger, sight, etc.


Jeff


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