# Vintage Hoyt Gold Medalist T/D



## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

I acquired a vintage Hoyt Gold Medalist T/D bow is a trade deal last year. I'm new at the archery hobby and would like to as a little help. The bow is missing the tiller bolts and have no idea what they look like. I searched the web and can't find any download for a manual on it. Can I simply use plain SS 5/16 x24 bolts or are they "special" and have a different structure to them? I'd like to start shooting it, as my 8 year old grand daughter has started shooting and wants me to shoot with her. She asked for a bow and arrow and is getting pretty good with it at twenty feet. Thanks


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Do the bolts have a "special" tip, on the end, to keep it from digging into the limb? Can anyone share a picture of what a Hoyt tiller looks like. I have a lathe and could make one if I had a pic and dimensions! I also have no idea how to adjust and use the arrow rest!


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

The butt of the limb fit into a "cradle" that tracks back and forth as you turn the screw. I happen to have a pair of these cradles if you're missing them - PM me if you want them. The bolt (5/16-24, as you know) allows for the cradle to travel back and forth. There was a second 5-16/24 set screw used as a lock, and it went on top of the tracking set screw.

I don't recall exactly what the main screw had on the end - I seem to recall a brass ring of some sort that was only used as a wider support against the limb pocket, but I don't think it is necessary, especially if you have the cradle set so the limbs are at minimum weight.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

As for the arrow rest, if you're talking about the vertical adjustment, the way it was on the first GMs was pretty much useless. Most people would simply remove the plate from the rest barrel (I will come off with pliers), grind the surface off a bit so it was just under flush with the riser, set it in about the middle of the vertical track and leave it alone. Just stick on a rest as you would with any other bow. You can use the vertical adjustment to center the plunger when going from thin to fat arrows, without moving the rest itself. Hope that makes sense.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks Stash! I have both of those including the bolts and locking allen screws. The bolts that I'm missing are the ones on the front edge that "squeeze" the limbs to the riser. Maybe I'm confusing tiller adjustment bolts, as in your picture, with limb securing bolts!


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Stash said:


> As for the arrow rest, if you're talking about the vertical adjustment, the way it was on the first GMs was pretty much useless. Most people would simply remove the plate from the rest barrel (I will come off with pliers), grind the surface off a bit so it was just under flush with the riser, set it in about the middle of the vertical track and leave it alone. Just stick on a rest as you would with any other bow. You can use the vertical adjustment to center the plunger when going from thin to fat arrows, without moving the rest itself. Hope that makes sense.


Think I'll take your advice and remove the current rest and install a standard arrow rest. Much rather keep it simple. On the arrow rest, clear as mud to me, about grinding it under flush. Can't I just remove everything and stick on a standard arrow rest? Thanks


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

I don't recall the GM having those. They had the dovetail, same as today's ILF limbs. The TD 1-2-3 series used a 1/4-20 thumb screw to lock the limbs in, but the GM didn't.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

I think he might be talking about the stab bushings on the upper and lower end of the riser on the target side (still can't sort out face and back of the bow). The dovetails and the grey blocks (picture above) are what hold the limbs in place on the TD4. The silver bushings that are at either end on the side that faces the target can be used to screw in upper and lower stabs. Never used them myself.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Her's a pic. The missing bolt goes into the SS threaded fitting you see in the picture. I'm thinking the bolts maybe had rounded ends to allow movement in and out of the limb "cradles."


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

That's just a stabilizer bushing like bobnikon says - nothing to do with the limbs.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

No bolt missing, just a stabilizer hole. You should have everything you need to mount the limbs. There will be some play when the limb is seated, until strung. Once the string is on, that is what holds it all together. There should be no play once it is all together.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

bobnikon said:


> I think he might be talking about the stab bushings on the upper and lower end of the riser on the target side (still can't sort out face and back of the bow). The dovetails and the grey blocks (picture above) are what hold the limbs in place on the TD4. The silver bushings that are at either end on the side that faces the target can be used to screw in upper and lower stabs. Never used them myself.


In my posting #2 pic you see three threaded bushings. The center is for a stabilizer for sure but could the ones on the ends also be for stabilizers. I can see on the limbs where marks were left from something screwing down on them!


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

The limb marks might just be from someone using a too-long stabilizer screw that stuck out on the inside of the limb pocket. Either that, or he thought the same as you - there was supposed to be a screw there to lock the limbs.

In any event, 100% these are just upper and lower stabilizer mounts.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Well I guess I'm good to shoot then without worry of limbs breaking off and cutting me up in twenty places! LoL My brace height is only 8.25" and I guess it should be somewhere around nine. Gonna put some twists into the string and see if I can get closer. I'll go over to the local archery shop and see what they suggest for an arrow rest. Thanks for everyones help!


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Shot a GM TD4 for 15 years. No idea why there would be anything contacting the limb through the stab bushings "intentionally". That being said, recurve archers are always experimenting. Contact the person you bought it from. I can't tell you any more than I have about what the holes are for.


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## Seaflite (May 20, 2012)

I have a completely intact gm with all the parts......i have to go to work now, we can talk later. At least photos. It's identical to yours, even left handed. I will PM when i get a chance. And, yes, the bolts to adjust the tillers are "special". I may even have the wrenches.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Thinking of just using a traditional rug on the shelf.


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

The limb bolts were more of a thumb screw. Here is what they looked like. Sorry I do not have one. I'm sure anything you can come up with would be better than nothing.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Yeah that's the thumb screw I mentioned in post #7 above, for the TD1-2-3 series bows.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Bob Furman said:


> The limb bolts were more of a thumb screw. Here is what they looked like. Sorry I do not have one. I'm sure anything you can come up with would be better than nothing.


Seems like the general concensus is that stabilizers went into the holes or nothing if not used. Guess I'll replace the arrow rest with something less complicated than what's on it now. How about a carpet rest on the shelf? I certainly not competition shooting and just want to plink at targets. Is plink the right word in archery?


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

Btw, I'm sure you can find something generic that may work for this.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=mvEzUYXWFuTi2QXQ4YCgCw


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Bob Furman said:


> Btw, I'm sure you can find something generic that may work for this.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=mvEzUYXWFuTi2QXQ4YCgCw


Thanks Bob. Good idea! I'll go to Lowe's tomorrow cause I know they have a large selection of specialty knobs. Now if they just have one in 5/16 x 24 thread.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Looks like a TD-4 riser to me there is no need for a bolt running through stab bushing. The pocket should have two set screws and the floating pocket like Stash posted pics of above. Again the threaded holes you are referring to are 5/16x24 thread for stabilizer weights. You have the earlier version of GM-4td without the radiused shelf which was found to be a weak point in the design and later bows had a radiused shelf. Still a great riser though!


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Pics showing radiused sight window of later GM-4, my factory camo version with homebrew feather rest attached to moveable plate as I did not like the plunger snagging on clothing.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

w8lon said:


> Pics showing radiused sight window of later GM-4, my factory camo version with homebrew feather rest attached to moveable plate as I did not like the plunger snagging on clothing.


Thanks for the pics. Looks like your arrow rest is set really high above the shelf! Do you think my rest, when I put one on, will have to be about 1/2" above the shelf? What is the effect on the arrow if I put mine onto the shelf?


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

LX if shooting barebow having the arrow closer to hand is said to be better for instinctive shooting by some. I personally see no difference, having a raised rest is better for clearance issues though. The Cavalier rest that is on your bow is a very good old rest in that it will clear itself from contact with vanes. Since my GM has the radius shelf it was better to use the moveable plate instead of building up the shelf. This is one of my hunting bows and wanted nothing to catch on clothing or brush was able to remove plunger as well as a silent draw and will not break! Nice riser with the option to add weights in several places with the five bushings to balance bow for barebow.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

w8lon said:


> LX if shooting barebow having the arrow closer to hand is said to be better for instinctive shooting by some. I personally see no difference, having a raised rest is better for clearance issues though. The Cavalier rest that is on your bow is a very good old rest in that it will clear itself from contact with vanes. Since my GM has the radius shelf it was better to use the moveable plate instead of building up the shelf. This is one of my hunting bows and wanted nothing to catch on clothing or brush was able to remove plunger as well as a silent draw and will not break! Nice riser with the option to add weights in several places with the five bushings to balance bow for barebow.


I don't understand how the Cavalier sight is adjusted and used. I guess the plunger rides on the arrow shaft but seems like the little spring below would hit the vane. I also "guess" the long flat SS spring holds the arrow on "but" seems like it would slice the top vane off when shot.

Is the moveable spring supposed to be moved upward to hold the shaft up and the plunger push's shaft outward for alignment on the spring?


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Sounds like you are referring to the clicker when slicing a vane off when shot. Yes, they were designed to do this ;^)

Using the clicker when starting out can lead to frustration and disappointment, just move it for a while. After a few months of shooting and noticing your arrows are all in line vertically on target with high/low shots think about putting the clicker back on. It is a draw stop of sorts as you pull your arrow through until point clears then clicks the click signals your release.

A properly spined arrow will clear the rest without any issue of wearing your vanes out on the wire. Several high speed videos on here showing this a few months back.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

w8lon said:


> Sounds like you are referring to the clicker when slicing a vane off when shot. Yes, they were designed to do this ;^)
> 
> Using the clicker when starting out can lead to frustration and disappointment, just move it for a while. After a few months of shooting and noticing your arrows are all in line vertically on target with high/low shots think about putting the clicker back on. It is a draw stop of sorts as you pull your arrow through until point clears then clicks the click signals your release.
> A properly spined arrow will clear the rest without any issue of wearing your vanes out on the wire. Several high speed videos on here showing this a few months back.


No, no clicker. Here's a pic of what I have. I bent the spring wire up to hold the shaft in position on the nylon plunger. I moved the plunger in/out to align the shaft just off the riser. I adjusted the flat spring to hold the arrow on the rest to where it just cleared the vane/feather. Seems I figured out how it works. Now I just have to work on how to air the darn thing.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Here's how it looks now.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

It seems you don't know what a clicker is or how it works. You have one on there and it is NOT meant to "hold the arrow on the rest".


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

>--gt--> said:


> It seems you don't know what a clicker is or how it works. You have one on there and it is NOT meant to "hold the arrow on the rest".


Since the sub-title of this forum is "Archers helping archers" I'll embellish the comment from the distinguished Hoyt engineer: The clicker is set to the position of the point of the arrow at full draw as a signal for the archer to release the arrow. The clicker doesn't interfere with the flight of the arrow because it has moved out of the way while performing it's job, which is generating the click as it flips off of the end of the arrow.

Unless you are shooting that left-handed bow right-handed (and I hope that you are not) the arrow should stay on the rest because of the action of your fingers slightly unrolling as you draw. If you have trouble keeping the arrow on the rest you can bend a hook onto the tip of the rest, or switch to a plastic stick-on rest until you get the hang of it.


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

Kid-

You need some face time with an archer— Any archer. The web is not a good place to learn how to handle a weapon, particularly when you have kids in the house.

Here is a Yelp link for archery shops in your area. Bring your riser in and have a conversation. Preferably get a lesson.

Any Tampa area archers tuned in who can give the OP an hour?


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Soooo, I finally shot my bow today and found out a couple of things about a clicker and plunger! My arrow shots were to the left of "my" aim so I turned the plunger in and brought the arrow on target better. I viewed "clickers" on line and discovered mine they are supposed to be flat and "don't" hold the arrow on the rest although it seems to work pretty good for that! LoL I guess my arrows are too long anyway and would never click when I pull to full pull. 

As a side note, I traded an old metal detector for this lefty bow a couple years ago. (Yes I'm a lefty!) The riser was really in sorry shape so I sanded it down and painted it with white epoxy appliance paint. The limbs were really yellow and cracked of clear lacquer so I wet sanded them with 6000 grit and sprayed them with clear auto top coat. The bow really looks good now but still have to get the brace height correct before calling it a finished job. Oh I still have to take it to the archery shop and have them noch the string. I do appreciate everyone's help with my newbie questions. Thanks


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Sounds like you now understand the clicker, just take it off for now and set it aside. As to nocking points tie them on yourself using unwaxed dental floss. It is a good idea to have two nocking points one above arrow and one below with a 1/16" gap so as not to pinch nock. As a starting point use a square at 90deg to string set atop rest wire then tie in top nock at 3/8" above 90deg. Then with a nock atached to string tie in the second point 1/16" below nock. Tie in nocking points are easier on glove/tab abd simple to do.

As long as your at it I would recommend twisting your string up to correct brace before installing nocking points as well as adjusting your tiller since bow was probably taken apart for paint job. Your top limb should be in the neighborhood of 1/8" larger gap on top limb where it meets riser than bottom limb. Adjusting tiller will also move nocking points up or down. You adjust tiller by using you adjustment screws in limb pockets by the way.


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

Btw, do you have any pics of the limbs you are using with this?


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

When I take the string off tomorrow I'll pull the limbs off so I can take a pic of them side by side. They are electro penciled in white with the number 983 on them. I'm going up to "Tampa Archery Shop" tomorrow to inquire about proper arrows. Made my own knurled knobs to fill the holes where the stabilizers would go just to dress things up a bit. Maybe I'll use their archery range and see if anyone can give me a few pointers. It's been about 50 years since I've done any shooting! Yes I'm an old fart who's still enjoying life. Motorcycles, boating, firearms, metal machining, metal detecting and now archery!


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up Very nice sport to get back into LX, I'm sure things were simpler back in the sixties. Took 22 years off myself and started shooting again last summer. Now if I don't shoot every day I hurt, neck injury five years ago left me with a permanent knot under my right shoulder blade. Shooting archery both right hand and left keeps me in alignment.

Warning, this is addictive!


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Bow limbs pic:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> The web is not a good place to learn how to handle a weapon,


My bows are not weapons. I do not defend myself or anyone else with them, nor do I attack anyone with them. 

They are sporting equipment, thank you very much. 

LX Kid, if I haven't said this already, make sure you NEVER use a low-stretch string on that set of limbs. Ever. Those limb tips were only made to shoot Dacron strings. I had a beautiful set of limbs like that blow up on a student once who was shooting a fast-flight string by mistake. Great bow by the way...

John


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Limbwalker, not to be argumentative, but I believe you do hunt. Killing would indicate that the bow is indeed a weapon. I only shoot target (and at that only rings and spots) but I still consider my bow a weapon. Original design and intent. Not to get into a long philosophical argument about baseball bats and all sorts of improvised weapons, I just firmly believe that these are indeed weapons and should be handled and respected as such. My two cents.
Cheers


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

That being said, in my hands nothing is _much _of a weapon.


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> My bows are not weapons. I do not defend myself or anyone else with them, nor do I attack anyone with them.
> 
> They are sporting equipment, thank you very much.
> 
> ...John


Call them what you wish. My concern was that the OP is trying to learn about a potentially dangerous piece of "sporting equipment" through a medium with insufficient bandwidth. I would personally feel much safer if he were to have some face time with a local archer. Accidents and injuries hurt all of us. 

He's starting out with 46# limbs. He's sanding and refinishing an old set of limbs with unknown (on my part) potential for delamination--Remember, this is humid Florida. He intends to shoot with his granddaughter. 

If you consider my calling a bow a weapon somewhat hyperbolic that's fine, and regarding archery I would advise him to take your advice over mine any day. But politics and language aside, there is potential for injury here on the part of an industrious person with a good attitude that I would like to see among the ranks of archers.

This reminds me of the NRA directive during my instructor course to call them "firearms" and not "guns".

LX Kid. You have a PM.


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

46# limbs with cracks? even if just surface coating cracks I would not feel too comfortable standing next to him on the line. Anyone know how old these limbs are?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

agillator, our target bows are sporting equipment. My hunting bows may be weapons if someone tries to take them from me... 

But we, as athletes, need to get in the habit of referring to our equipment as sporting equipment. 

Javelin throwers most likely don't refer to their equipment as "weapons" for example. 

It's not a stereotype that serves us.

John


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

cc46 said:


> 46# limbs with cracks? even if just surface coating cracks I would not feel too comfortable standing next to him on the line. Anyone know how old these limbs are?


I have no idea how old the limbs are. I'm guessing they are the original limbs. I don't know how old the bow is either as I traded for it. They have no cracks in them. On another note my bow is a weapon and to be respected as such. My firearms are weapons and are respected as such. I would use both for recreation, self defense or hunting! It's all good!


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> ...Javelin throwers most likely don't refer to their equipment as "weapons" for example.
> 
> It's not a stereotype that serves us.
> 
> John


A persuasive example and point that I will keep in mind.


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

Okay the pics of the limbs you posted are a bit fuzzy to me. If no really deep dark cracks then maybe it's okay. And a coating of a flexible clear coat is a good idea to keep humidity or rain out. We used clear nail polish in the old days to protect the inner layers if a scratch occured. And a dacron string, I think, is needed. Likely if you have the old one it's dacron. As for arrows with old limbs go heavy. Heavy will absorb the energy in the limbs better and not stress the material too much. This is an old bow and if your intention is to be with you grand daughter it will serve you well. The handle if no cracks is very strong. But the limbs need some care. 

Can you post any more pics of the limbs? especially if there are dark cracks. Dark implies dirt and age, so that's what I'd look for.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

cc46 said:


> Okay the pics of the limbs you posted are a bit fuzzy to me. If no really deep dark cracks then maybe it's okay. And a coating of a flexible clear coat is a good idea to keep humidity or rain out. We used clear nail polish in the old days to protect the inner layers if a scratch occured. And a dacron string, I think, is needed. Likely if you have the old one it's dacron. As for arrows with old limbs go heavy. Heavy will absorb the energy in the limbs better and not stress the material too much. This is an old bow and if your intention is to be with you grand daughter it will serve you well. The handle if no cracks is very strong. But the limbs need some care.
> 
> Can you post any more pics of the limbs? especially if there are dark cracks. Dark implies dirt and age, so that's what I'd look for.


I could post some more pics "but" I did and do realize the danger factor of cracks. The only stripping I did on the limbs was to remove the yellow cracked "finish" that was on there. I used very fine "6000" grit wet/dry sandpaper on the limbs. No dings, digs, swelling or cracks in the limbs. I don't really know what material the string is made of when I bought it off ebay last year. Just in case I'll go ahead and order a 14 strand Dacron string. There was no string that came with the bow when I got it. The riser is of what appears to be aluminum metal.

Today I did put another 10 turns on the 62" string making the brace height 7-3/4. I check it tomorrow and see if it has changed. Thinking of ordering a 61" Dacron 14 strand string. Anyone have any opinions about this? Thanks


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

If the sanding removed the yellow dis-colouration of the surface coating then that's a good thing. A new seal with clear coat is also good. I don't think those limbs are more than 20 years old. 


As for string twists, 40-60 twists on a strig is common.


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

agillator said:


> Kid-
> 
> You need some face time with an archer— Any archer. The web is not a good place to learn how to handle a weapon, particularly when you have kids in the house.
> 
> ...





LX Kid said:


> Bow limbs pic:


You'll be a rock star at any range when you show up with that bow. People really like those old Hoyt bows. I wonder if anyone will prize my Hoyt HPX in 30 or 40 years... I think so.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

cc46 said:


> If the sanding removed the yellow dis-colouration of the surface coating then that's a good thing. A new seal with clear coat is also good. I don't think those limbs are more than 20 years old.
> As for string twists, 40-60 twists on a strig is common.


Thanks, that's a piece of information I've been fishing around for! I think I'm up to about 30 twists. I have already sealed the limbs with automotive clear coat. I got to looking around above the garage and found another old bow that I didn't remember having. It a weird looking compound bow called a Black Widow. Has floating limbs on a very long riser. The string is broke and the ends just flop around. Weird!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I don't think those limbs are more than 20 years old.


Those limbs are more like 30 years old. Most likely vintage early '80's stuff there. 

I'm no GM expert, but I'd guess probably around 80-82.

Here's a few from the '84 games in L.A.
















John


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

That's a low serial number (3 digits) so it's the first year run of limbs. 1983-84. The riser is a bit newer. You can tell by the curve in the back of the riser sight window behind the rest - the first ones had a straight angle there (red line). You can see the angle clearly on Pace's bow (the blue one). Also, they thickened the sight window on the sight mount side because the first risers tended to twist. Can't tell from the pic, though, you'd have to see an older one and this one side-by side unless you knew what to look for.

I'm going to disagree with limbwalker again, this time on the strings. These limbs were definitely made to take kevlar or fastflite type no-stretch string materials. I used a bow like that from 1984 until I retired from recurve shooting around 1990, never had a limb issue with kevlar or fastflite. Although going to dacron wouldn't be a bad idea just to be on the safe side.

I actually had some of the prototype carbon (graphite) limbs - the serial number was G-3 (I was told that Pace and McKinney got G-1 and G-2).

Brace height on the 66" bow should be 8 5/8 to 8 3/4".


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I'm going to disagree with limbwalker again, this time on the strings. These limbs were definitely made to take kevlar or fastflite type no-stretch string materials


Okay, do what you want. I just had a pair of limbs with those same exact limb tips blow up on a student when shot with a low stretch string. The string cut right through that tip, and split the limb in three from the nock grooves down about 7" or so. 

What a shame, since they were such a good shooting set of limbs. Really set the student back for a while too. He was gun shy every time he shot for a couple months.

Why would you even take the risk on a pair of limbs that old though?


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks Stash and Limbwalker for those pics and information. Better see if I can find a Fastflite or Kevlar bowstring just to be on the safe side. I had no idea the bow was that old. Maybe I should bail out of this bow and get something more suited to my beginner status. I just want to shoot some arrows and don't intend to get into the "Pro" status of shooting. Something like a t/d hunting bow seems to have more interest to me.

Something funny about when I went to Tampa Archery Shop happened yesterday. I was inquiring about the "clicker" and they all said it wasn't a clicker and had no idea what it was! They, 3 different techs, said all clickers are up by the tip of the limb. They had never seen anything like the one on my bow and couldn't even guess what it was for. I told them I was using it to hold the arrow on the rest! LoL, LoL


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm not so sure the string is stretching. I've measured it a couple of times and it's the same length! I'm measuring the total outside length of the string, tip to tip. That's why I was wondering if I should buy a 61" string. Should I be turning the tiller sews all the way in or all the way out? Right now they are all the way in.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

What I'd suggest is you just get new limbs. The riser is fine. A decent set of replacement limbs for those old GM's will only cost you about $130. I'd suggest the Samick Universals. They will be almost identical in performance to what you have, but will handle modern string materials without ever having to worry about damaging the limbs, or the archer. 

If you want to shoot the limbs you have, buy a dacron string and have at it. 

There is little to be gained by shooting a fast flight (can't get kevlar anymore, and there is no reason to anyway) string on those limbs and potentially lots to lose. 

When you get better, you'll want newer limbs anyway, and then you can switch to a modern string material.

I still shoot Dacron on several of my hunting bows and it works just as good as it did in the 70's.

John


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Something funny about when I went to Tampa Archery Shop happened yesterday. I was inquiring about the "clicker" and they all said it wasn't a clicker and had no idea what it was! They, 3 different techs, said all clickers are up by the tip of the limb. They had never seen anything like the one on my bow and couldn't even guess what it was for. I told them I was using it to hold the arrow on the rest! LoL, LoL


This is a huge problem for our sport today. 99% of archery shops employ NOONE that knows the first thing about a recurve target bow. In fact, most of the people working at archery shops have never shot anything but a compound, and some have never even shot a bow with their fingers - a fact that I find simply incredible.

John


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> This is a huge problem for our sport today. 99% of archery shops employ NOONE that knows the first thing about a recurve target bow. In fact, most of the people working at archery shops have never shot anything but a compound, and some have never even shot a bow with their fingers - a fact that I find simply incredible.
> John


Thanks John. I just ordered a Fastflite string and it was only $10.95 so not much money. Anyway when it gets here I'll be able to compare the two strings that I'll have. What kind of limbs would you suggest should I decide to purchase a couple. 46# is about as much as I'd care to pull. Are we talking length, material type, weight or all three? Thanks

When I measure my pull length, closed fist against the wall to the outside corner of my eye, I measure 28" in length. That is what someone told me was the way to do it.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Again, that fast flight string will put more stress on those old limbs than a dacron string. So if you intend to use that new string on those old limbs, don't say I didn't warn you if they blow up. Hopefully you'll prove Stash right, and not me... 

If you buy new limbs, I'd recommend the Samick Universals for now. And 46# is a LOT of weight for someone starting out. That's what I shoot now for indoors and I've been at this a while, plus I use 52#+ recurve bows for hunting, so you might want to back off that number for starters.

John


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Here is a link or two to peruse through LX that will help you out our equipment is far to simple for most local 'bow techs', to understand in a local shop.
https://sites.google.com/site/archerybibliography/recuve-bow-setup
www.archersreference.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/archref_04.pdf


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

w8lon said:


> Here is a link or two to peruse through LX that will help you out our equipment is far to simple for most local 'bow techs', to understand in a local shop.
> https://sites.google.com/site/archerybibliography/recuve-bow-setup
> www.archersreference.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/archref_04.pdf


Wow! Thanks, those are two really informative and interesting sites!


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Again, that fast flight string will put more stress on those old limbs than a dacron string. So if you intend to use that new string on those old limbs, don't say I didn't warn you if they blow up. Hopefully you'll prove Stash right, and not me...
> John


John, you really have a lot of experience in the sport and with 10 years on this forum and over 7300+ postings you have the respect of all. I know you realize I'm a newbie to the sport and have my safety interest at heart but is there really that much "gloom and doom" attached with this older bow? Should I just hang it on the wall to gather dust and forget it? If I were to buy new limbs I'd rather just buy a new bow, more suited to my experience, at about the same cost of new limbs. Checked dealers, who sell Samik limbs, and all are on back order. Other brands are way out of financial reality for putting on an old Hoyt riser. This fellow Texan is just saying, "This dog ain't gonna hunt!"


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

You're talking about the bow, and I'm just talking about the limbs. 

Listen to what I'm saying... Those limbs are fine. Shoot them with Dacron strings as long as you want. I am not sure why you bought the fast flight string unless you just chose to ignore my advice. Stash certainly knows their stuff, but this is just something I disagree on, that's all, based on personal experience. Maybe the limbs I loaned to that student years ago would have blown up anyway. Maybe not. Safest thing to do is just throw a dacron string on the bow you have and go shoot and don't look back.

Or you can throw the fast flight string on there and hope nothing happens.

Or, you can buy new limbs and use your new fast flight string and go enjoy shooting.

You have three options. Not sure why one isn't appealing to you.

I don't think I ever tried to talk you out of shooting those limbs. No "doom and gloom" intended. Just don't want you to get hurt either. Better to have all the facts. This forum is supposed to be about archers helping archers, ain't it! 

BTW, you can buy a better handle, but you won't really get a better shooting handle unless you spend hundreds more. That handle is very, very capable.

John


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> BTW, you can buy a better handle, but you won't really get a better shooting handle unless you spend hundreds more. That handle is very, very capable.
> 
> John


Thanks John! I don't know if I have a Dacron string on there already or not. How would I tell the difference? Its yellow and green strands if that will help identify it. I just emailed Amazon trying to swap out the Fastflite for a Dacron string before the order is shipped. Talking about the handle, I have been shooting it in the back yard and the upper part of the handle really hurts my thumb knuckle and is uncomfortable in my hand. (I'll take some cheeze with my whine thanks.) Gonna try putting some sticky foam on top where my knuckle rubs to see how it goes. Handle doesn't seem to fit my hand very well.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Color alone won't tell you. It can be hard to tell a dacron string from a fast flight without experience. Dacron is larger strands than fast flight, and more limp. But that depends on wax too... If that is a very old string, it's probably best to just get a new one anyway.

As for the grip, that's a very large grip on those old GM's. The issue is the way you're placing your hand in it. You need to point your thumb more directly at the target by rotating your wrist. Also, a finger sling will allow you to push the bow away with the base of your thumb and keep your knuckles at a 45 degree angle without gripping the bow. That will also take pressure off that knuckle on your thumb. Easier said than done. I could show you if you were standing in front of me... 

John


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

I would highly recommend both reading the references posted above and picking up a copy of Shooting the Stickbow. A ton of great information.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

Makes you stop and wonder how all the indians and old world warrior archers got by without computers and text books!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

If you want to shoot like they did, by all means stop reading now.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Easy to tell dacron from fastflite. Dacron is much more elastic than fastflite - it will contract a bit when not under tension.

Take the string off the bow and leave it off overnight or longer. Put the string on the bow. Measure the brace height. Put the bow down on a padded chair or other padded surface about the same height, with the bow pointed straight down. Hold each limb at the end and push down on the limbs hard. Remeasure the brace height. If it's the same or just slightly lower, it's a fastflite or other no-stretch string. If it's considerably lower, like 1/2", it's dacron. You can actually feel the string stretching when you do this with a dacron string.


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> If you want to shoot like they did, by all means stop reading now.


I done seen them shoot in the movies! Nothing like a good bow made out of mesquite and bow strings out of strips of agabe cactus fibers! Why they could hit a jackalope at 100yds on the run. Of course jackalopes in Texas are the size of Florida white tail deer! LoL


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## LX Kid (Feb 25, 2013)

I thought I might like to own a new bow with less weight. You guessed it, I bought a new one. It's a Samick 62"-40# T/D. What a difference 6 less pounds makes! I'm hoping to able to pay more attention to form and release with this new one. I was surprised at how many good reviews the Samick Sage has. It arrived today and for $139 delivered the quality really looks good! I picked black limbs and came with a Dacron string. I guess any further discussion of my new bow will be over in the "Bow Specific" Samick forum.


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