# Findings on the JMB (Jager Magera B.E.S.T.) grip



## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Got mine a few days ago but only had time to try it out yesterday. I found that :-

It took some getting used to, especially when the bow was dropping during the followthrough. The right edge (left for right handers) would brush against my palm. Was alright after a while though when I started opening my fingers wider after release.

For those with smaller hands, perhaps a different size might be offered since I realized that there was practically no contact with the higher edge in my case. Also, might take care of the above. For comparison, a Medium Cavalier Elite's faceplate is still a little too high for me to get adequate index findex contact.

My shots went to the left quite drastically. To Paul and John's credit, they were consistent and the grouping was nice so I shadn't go into this too much for the time being because it might be just me needing more time to adapt.

ps. Hope the creators don't mind me calling it the JMB.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Progen said:


> Got mine a few days ago but only had time to try it out yesterday. I found that :-
> 
> It took some getting used to, especially when the bow was dropping during the followthrough. The right edge (left for right handers) would brush against my palm. Was alright after a while though when I started opening my fingers wider after release.
> 
> ...


I also wish a version for smaller hands was available. I got one for my wife last week. She likes it better than the stock Nexus grip, and it fits MY hand perfectly. It doesn't quite fit her hand however which is fairly small. 

-Andrew


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Definitely some adjusting required. I thought my old grip was built up to the same angle, but I found what you did: that my arrows flew a bit to the right (I'm righthanded) when I wasn't concentrating on form as I should.

I think it's more adjustment than any design flaw. Plus, I'm still in a bit of a down cycle, so it could be all me rather than me adjusting to the grip. I like the grip so it's staying on. I like the fact that the hand either goes in right, or doesn't fit at all.


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## Targetbutt (Jan 19, 2006)

I just started shooting with this grip this morning. Ordered it Tuesday, got here Thursday. I love the feel of it. I just had to adjust my nock point down a tad, other than that it didn't really change anything else.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Targetbutt said:


> ... I just had to adjust my nock point down a tad, other than that it didn't really change anything else.


Ahhhh!!! Forgot to mention that. What I did in my case was to shift my sight down.


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

FWIW....From several interactions I have had with him on this topic - Coach Lee does not usually make the adaptation of the grip all at one time. 

It is my observation and understanding that he feels that when changing the grip from the "stock" grip to his preferred higher grip, the archer must be given time to adjust to incremental changes. Baby steps, as it were... 

The plumbers putty is IDEAL for this - one can add a small amount, shaped properly, and then a few weeks later add some more. 

Too big of a change in the angle of the grip in too short of a time can introduce an instability that slows or even defeats the archer's progress in achieving success in the BEST approach.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Ron,

Incremental changes are fine if:

1) you have access to coach Lee. Enough so that he can actually UNDERSTAND your particular needs.

or

2) Either your personal coach or you yourself have a good enough understanding of a) how to build a grip using the grip putty and b) when you have reached the final shape.

The problem is that 99% of recurve archers have neither 1 or 2, so where exactly does that leave them?

So let's start somewhere then. And in my opinion, Paul's grips of this design are a better "stock" grip if you will, than the standard Hoyt stock grips.

More archers are going to be served well by using a grip like this IMO than by endlessly experimenting with building up grips with no guidance or understanding of what the result will be from a particular change.

So, as much as you and I may agree on grip design and how to build a proper grip, that really only helps you, me, and those students we have time to assist personally.

By providing an option like this, Folks have one more avenue to try - and a pretty good one IMO.

Will it be for everyone? Of course not. But it will help the majority of archers understand what proper hand position is supposed to feel like.

In a perfect world, every archer would either have 1 or 2 above. In the absence of that however, what would you have them do?

John.


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## Guest (May 26, 2007)

*Grip*

I personally love mine...I had no problem adapting to it. I never had to change anything including my sights.

By the way. Plumbers putty is the wrong term to use for the epoxy putty used to build a bow grip. Plumbers putty will not every get hard.

Art


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

<shrug> - yes, you are right - not plumbers putty. As I indicated several years ago at This Link on the TSAA website on customizing your bowgrip to achieve the kind of grip you now think is the cat's yowl, you want to use a plumbers epoxy (see da photos).
John - sorry if you thought I was advocating against your grip - just advocating that it is a safer path for accomplished archers to make the change in increments rather than whole hawg. And ANYONE can take their existing bowgrip and add small portions of this epoxy to their grip and build it up over time. Once they have arrived at a suitably high grip with the epoxy then it becomes a simple matter to switch out to a purtier grip like I gather yours is (and that is the only reason to go from a stock & builtup to a custom. At least, that's why Lindsey's bows have custom wood grips by Johnson and Loesch. I sent them a built up grip and they duplicated the crude version into a very elegant looking wood laminate grip. So esthetically, I am all for your grip!

One thing I have learned the hard way is that you can never tell for sure WHAT ULTIMATE EFFECT any given change in form (no matter how innocent or simple) is going to have on the archer. The smallest change can actually cause great distress in unexpected ways, sometimes not immediately seen. This often flies in the face of "logical expectations", by the way. A big change, even more so. In the case of a bowgrip, if someone wants to do it all at once that's their choice. But I tend toward a more conservative approach in coaching these days. 

For example, when moving the grip higher, most people do not realize that they are in essence moving the pressure point (much) closer to the pivot point of the bow, and THAT can cause some pretty profound effects in the bow's behavior, and the shot results, and introduce an instability the archer neither expects nor understands. Think of this effect in relation to what he teaches about vertical components - there is a vertical component in everything physical - including running, standing, and yes, shooting. Or hmm, how about if the archer stands with his feet TOO far apart, versus TOO close together. both will result in more swaying of the archer, and more muscle effort to maintain an upright stability. (Wasted effort in the shot cycle). Moving the bow grip higher helps to get to a better, less wasteful position, provided the archer has developed the muscle talent to control it. For some archers you can ask them to adapt in a big jump all at once and they will respond ok, others will not and may develop problems. What it boils down to is your obligation to the student and how do you make it right if they develop a problem you didn't expect when you swapped out bowgrips in one swell foop  ?


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

For about two weeks before I got my JMB grip, I was shooting my Aerotec's stock grip with my bowhand rotated such that the thumb was pushed forwards slightly away from the body. The center of the grip ended pretty much on the edge of my thumb's base which gave me the higher than 45 degree knuckle angles.

I know it's not exactly the same as the hand placement on the JMB (no protests yet so I'll continue with that abbreviation :wink grip but it sort of prepared me for what to expect.

As mentioned in my initial thread, my only gripe is its size.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Progen said:


> ...
> My shots went to the left quite drastically. To Paul and John's credit, they were consistent and the grouping was nice so I shadn't go into this too much for the time being because it might be just me needing more time to adapt.
> ...


Statement retraction is in order here. :teeth: Shot quite a bit at 30 metres earlier. All shots grouped as before.

Correction, BETTER than before with less effort at the bowhand side. No horizontal sight adjustment required although I did have to move the block down a little.

How're you doing with yours, calbowdude? Shots still going to the right for you?


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

I still have a bit of right-itis when I use my hand to expand through the shot; i.e. I get stuck on the clicker and am trying to get through. Otherwise, the arrows go where I aim. I 'might' be on the border of needing a slightly narrower grip, but I'll shoot it for a while longer before I can make a firm statement.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Another plus point for Paul & John's creation. Went to the outdoor range to do some shooting earlier. Forgot to switch the grip (only have one right now) from my secondary to my primary bow so ended up with the stock Aerotec grip.

Ended up having to concentrate more on ensuring consistent hand placement and the groups were bigger than with the grip on.

In a previous session using that grip, my groups were consistent even right up to the last end where my arms were trembly from fatigue and a slight collapse in alignment. :embara:


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## Acesarcher (Jun 1, 2007)

Does this method work for compound shooting??


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Acesarcher said:


> Does this method work for compound shooting??


I don't see why not. I've been teaching a young lady compound lately so I get to play quite a bit with her 40 - 50lb SierraTec. She still hasn't gotten used to the poundage but she finds it easier to draw when her bowhand is in a similar position as that forced by the JMB grip.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Acesarcher said:


> Does this method work for compound shooting??


:zip:


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Here's an example of a high ranking compound archer with that bowhand position. Not using the grip but that would be just about the position that the JMB grip will give. Notice that this thumb is further forward than with the more common low grips most compound archers use.










ps. Permission has been sought by Pat Coghlan, the archer in the photo, and he's also confirmed that he's doing it as detailed in Ki Sik's Total Archery.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Acesarcher said:


> Does this method work for compound shooting??


Here is my BEST grip for my Martin S4.
Just got it today.

woooohoooo!









































Going to install it tonite
and give it a whirl.



Jager grips is the best.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

If you don't mind, can you measure the grip at its widest point. Just wondering whether it's exactly the same size as the ones meant for recurve.

Also, your findings will be most welcome since that lady friend of mine still has trouble getting a consistent grip.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

Hang on! I remember a while back posting a thread about making a properly fitting grip for compound bows to ensure precise and consistent hand placement shot to shot. I particularly remember being jumped on by all and sundry to the effect that this is a big no no for compound bows because using such a grip will induce torque.

Now I see compounders getting grips made up for their bows by Jager grips and also getting his BEST grips as well for compounds!

Where are all the nay sayers now?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Progen said:


> If you don't mind, can you measure the grip at its widest point. Just wondering whether it's exactly the same size as the ones meant for recurve.
> 
> Also, your findings will be most welcome since that lady friend of mine still has trouble getting a consistent grip.


Hello Progen:

35 mm

or
1-3/8 inches.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Progen said:


> If you don't mind, can you measure the grip at its widest point. Just wondering whether it's exactly the same size as the ones meant for recurve.
> 
> Also, your findings will be most welcome since that lady friend of mine still has trouble getting a consistent grip.



Progen:

This grip is simply AMAZING.

I communicated with Paul (Cuthbert) of Jager grips,
when I heard that he was working with limbwalker to create
a recurve BEST grip.

Asked him if he could make a BEST grip for the Martin S4.

I got it today,
and fired some test shots.

Your hand just slips right into place. Locate the thumb
on the bow grip correctly,
and the grip takes care of the rest.

Very comfortable.
The elastomeric material has a fairly high durometer,
but it feels very good, and the tack is just right...no slipping.

When you assume the BEST alignment,
everything just works.

No ambiguity for bow hand placement.

I had to adjust the draw length on the bow
to account for the grip...

once that adjustment was complete,
the results are simply amazing.

A must have for anyone with the Martin S4.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Corsair said:


> Hang on! I remember a while back posting a thread about making a properly fitting grip for compound bows to ensure precise and consistent hand placement shot to shot. I particularly remember being jumped on by all and sundry to the effect that this is a big no no for compound bows because using such a grip will induce torque.
> 
> Now I see compounders getting grips made up for their bows by Jager grips and also getting his BEST grips as well for compounds!
> 
> Where are all the nay sayers now?


Tom:

I don't recall what bow you are using,
but the BEST grip for the Martin S4 is beyond excellent.

If a compound shooter wants to use the BEST system
for upper body alignment, then the Jager JMB BEST grip
is going to be very helpful.

I know that I will introduce all of my students (recurve and compound)
to the BEST grip.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

Hi Alan

I think it's a great idea and is in line with what I have believed all along about compound grips. The grip you have had made for your bow is a beauty and I'm jealous as hell.

I shoot a Martin Prestige and I'm damned if I know how you'd fit any sort of grip to the handle because of the raised portion on the right hand side of the grip and of course, no screw holes.

Never mind, I'll just sit back and admire other bows with the Jager grips. He does make a fine article.


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

> The elastomeric material has a fairly high durometer


N&B, How often do we get to say this about a product? :wink:

Seriously - it has crossed my mind that this would be very helpful to make your grip "bullet proof". Have you tried shooting extreme angles with it? How does it work when your shooting uphill 25-30* and your hand wants to heel the bow?


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

SuperX said:


> ... Have you tried shooting extreme angles with it? How does it work when your shooting uphill 25-30* and your hand wants to heel the bow?


That grip FORCES your hand into a position which the rest of the bowarm automatically follows. That's assuming that you are trying to accomplish what it was created to do in the first place and not fighting it.

Don't see any reason why the pressure point should change even when shooting at steep angles as long as you maintain a nice T.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

SuperX said:


> N&B, How often do we get to say this about a product? :wink:
> 
> Seriously - it has crossed my mind that this would be very helpful to make your grip "bullet proof". Have you tried shooting extreme angles with it? How does it work when your shooting uphill 25-30* and your hand wants to heel the bow?



Have a club shoot (field range) on Sunday.
I don't suspect any problem.

Because of the angle of the grip,
nearly impossible to "heel" the bow.

The only grip you can "heel" is the low wrist grip.



I use a finger sling, and hence a very relaxed hand,
and have trained myself to let the bow jump into the finger sling
(same as Olympic recuve shooters do).

For steep uphill shots,
I usually move the rear foot way back,
so I can maintain the "T" form in the upper body
(arrow stays close to parallel to the tops of the shoulders).

The beauty of the Magera Jager grip
is that the pressure is distributed evenly across a very wide surface.

The widest part of the grip is 35 mm wide (1-3/8 inches).
The static friction of the medium hard rubber (elastomer)
is just right....no sensation of any slippage.

I was easily able to find the "correct" hand position.

Not possible for a metal or wooden grip to achieve this level of
comfort, and absolutely no need for grip tape.


This BEST grip will work best (hehehe) with a finger sling.
I have my finger sling adjusted for a small amount of slack.

If you have shot Olympic recuve before,
then you know the proper degree of relaxation required for the bow hand grip.


If not,
the Ki Sik Lee gives an excellent description on his website,
www.kslinternationalarchery.com


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Progen said:


> That grip FORCES your hand into a position which the rest of the bowarm automatically follows. That's assuming that you are trying to accomplish what it was created to do in the first place and not fighting it.
> 
> Don't see any reason why the pressure point should change even when shooting at steep angles as long as you maintain a nice T.


Exactly, Progen.

The problem is that not everyone maintains T form
om the extreme uphill or extreme downhill field archery shots.

Can be difficult to do, due to terrain,
and due to upper body flexibility limitations,
and especially due to fatigue towards the end of the shoot.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Don't like that at all. 
You do not need all that extra grip on the outside in order to achieve good biomechanics on the grip and it will cause excessive torque on the side of the bow. With a compound it is vital that you do NOT touch the sides of the bow grip as it is very sensitive to it. Recurves are not sensitive to it so you can use a fuller grip. 
Also the higher grip is not as good because it makes the correct position for good biomechanics much smaller.
This is a major step backwards for compound bow grip design. 
There is a reason Hoyt, Mathews and Bowtech use small thin grips. It's because it's better for that type of bow. 

To achieve good biomechanics (which is all the BEST system is) you do not need or want to use a recurve style grip on a compound bow. 



> is that the pressure is distributed evenly across a very wide surface.


No, not good at all. For a compound you want it over about a 1 inch area, and more induces torque. More force into the hand over a wider area is a bad thing. 

I believe it is no coincidence that the number of 1400's shot have skyrocketed as the grips on compound bows have gotten thinner.


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

nuts&bolts said:


> Have a club shoot (field range) on Sunday.
> I don't suspect any problem.
> 
> Because of the angle of the grip,
> ...


I think we will have to agree to disagree on this - the higher wrist the grip the more prone to heeling it is and the more impact heeling will have. I have an MV2 so I know whereof I speak 



> I use a finger sling, and hence a very relaxed hand,
> and have trained myself to let the bow jump into the finger sling
> (same as Olympic recuve shooters do).


I have seen a lot of wrist slings among recurve shooters myself - in fact none of the shooters I used to hang with in MN used a finger sling, but maybe it is a regional thing. Personally I found I was spreading my fingers at release to cushion the shock of the bow hitting the end of the sling which was imparting torque to my shot. Thank god for video cameras and good friends with sharp eyes 



> For steep uphill shots,
> I usually move the rear foot way back,
> so I can maintain the "T" form in the upper body
> (arrow stays close to parallel to the tops of the shoulders).


I'll have to try that! I am struggling with how to set up for the really steep shots - I have a hard time staying steady when I am perched on a small stance so I will give your wider stance idea a try - thanks!




> The beauty of the Magera Jager grip
> is that the pressure is distributed evenly across a very wide surface.


I find that the less grip surface the better for me, but that may be a matter of preference and discipline in keeping the hand still during the shot. I find when my handle is all on one side of my life-line that it is least prone to torque.

Thanks for your thoughts!


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

SuperX said:


> I think we will have to agree to disagree on this - the higher wrist the grip the more prone to heeling it is and the more impact heeling will have. I have an MV2 so I know whereof I speak
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's a picture of Randy Ulmer.
Not quite how I do it,
but you can get the idea.










This is an extreme case.

Randy Ulmer has the forward knee bent,
and the rear foot and leg is outstretched way way back.

All of this lower body positioning,
is so Randy Ulmer can keep his shoulders parallel to the arrow
at full draw.


Basically, he is doing whatever he has to do,
to keep the upper body perpendicular (90 degrees) to the lay of the land.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

If I'm ever up in your area,
I'd would love to have you try the Magera Jager grip on my S4.

I think you would be very surprised.


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

nuts&bolts said:


> If I'm ever up in your area,
> I'd would love to have you try the Magera Jager grip on my S4.
> 
> I think you would be very surprised.


bring it on up to Darrington for Outdoor Nationals! Or Spokane for Fita Field Nationals - I will be in both places 

Are you going to either? How about NAA Outdoor Nationals in Colorado?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

SuperX said:


> bring it on up to Darrington for Outdoor Nationals! Or Spokane for Fita Field Nationals - I will be in both places
> 
> Are you going to either? How about NAA Outdoor Nationals in Colorado?



Wife has been out of work for a year,
just found a new job for the past 5 weeks,
and the company shut its doors.

All were laid off.

Spent my travel budget going to Vegas.

No more tournaments for this year.


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Ki Sik Lee doesn't shoot high fita scores, so shooting good doesn't matter when techicalities or coaching are in question. 
Nevertheless, I think, since Ki Sik Lee is supposedly now shooting a compound to implement the BEST to shooting one, we should just wait and see his findings, especially about the grip thing...


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Dado said:


> ...Ki Sik Lee is supposedly now shooting a compound...


Does this mean all his slavish followers are gong to now switch to the compound? (smile)

Dave


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Dave T said:


> Does this mean all his slavish followers are gong to now switch to the compound? (smile)
> 
> Dave


LOL
I'm merely implying that he's been impressed with US compound team, and seem interested in improving compound shooting like he did with olympic.
If he can make compound shooting better by "just one %", then why not try to do what he finds out...

BY THE WAY, I'm very sceptic about the high wrist grip on compounds as it gave me tendonitis when I used one on my RazorX...


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Whilst this grip encourages the below :-


Straight bowarm
Elbow crease square to the ground
Bow shoulder down and deltoid facing up
Better and strong shoulder / back alignment

contrary (my own findings, YMMV applies here) to what's been said about this grip, it is still possible to go back to the conventional 45 degree knuckle position (and feel right at the same time) if you get complacent and forget that the bowhand wrist must be rotated slightly outwards so that the thumb is located more forward and the knuckles end up at an angle that is somewhere around 70 to 80 degrees.

If you're not taught or trying to achieve the upper body alignment taught in B.E.S.T., then this grip ain't going to do anything and might even wreck the long hours you've put into shooting.

With your thumb in the thumbs up position, the center of the grip should be somewhere around half an inch to the edge. Sounds uncomfortable especially if you shoot with a bent bowarm but once you remember to rotate the hand slightly to the left (for a right handed shooter), it'll slip into place easily.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

So if you hold the correctly correctly instead of holding it like a pole then you will produce a good grip position. 
Revolutionary.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Marcus said:


> So if you hold the correctly correctly instead of holding it like a pole then you will produce a good grip position.
> Revolutionary.



 Come again?


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

I think it's great that people are willing to try new directions in archery. BEST grips for compounds? Why the hell not? It's nobody's business except those who are trying it.

If you don't like the idea, that's tough. Don't do it.

I say go for it you guys and the best of luck to you all.

By the way, bow grips don't induce hand torque or anything else if it comes to that - they are inanimate objects with no other intrinsic characteristics other than the materials they are made of.

Humans induce hand torque through poor technique. You don't want to torque the bow? Then don't do it. It's that simple. Train yourself out of it if you do.

In the end, it doesn't matter how you hold the bow or what you hold it with. If you are consistent, shot to shot, it will result in good scores. Consistency is what it is all about.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Corsair said:


> I think it's great that people are willing to try new directions in archery. BEST grips for compounds? Why the hell not? It's nobody's business except those who are trying it.
> 
> If you don't like the idea, that's tough. Don't do it.
> 
> ...



Hello Tom:

Different folks will get different results.

I am always the experimenter.
Made a home made string suppressor.
Seems to working fine.

I have my Jager Magera grip on my S4.

Yup, the factory Martin S4 grip area is very narrow,
and the angle and edge profile is very good.

The S4 in factory stock condition is very good.

At least for me,
I concur with Progen, if I am interpreting what his findings are correctly,
that the Magera Jager grip works best with the bow hand knuckles
much closer to 90 degrees from vertical
or another way to put it....

bow hand knuckles about 10 degrees below horizontal.

You can keep your bow hand knuckles at 45 degrees
with the Jager Magera grip.

You can also position your bow hand knuckles
at 10 degrees below horizontal with the Jager Magera grip.

I shoot it both ways,
and am getting very positive results. 45 degrees is my natural inclination,
but I'll try to ingrain the closer to 90 degrees (closer to horizontal) bow hand position.

The grip is still kinda new,
and I'll keep track of my progress at 30 days,
60 days and 90 days.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

Hi
Alan

Glad to read that you are having good results. I'll be very interested to discover how you feel about the grips after more prolonged use.

I'm becoming convinced that another way for compound shooters to go is the Free Pistol grip style. It's a "wrap around" type that literally grips the hand and very accurately positions the hand in the grip such that it is almost impossible to take up an inconsistent grip.

They come in two styles, the non-adjustable type (made specifically for your hand) and the more general fit style with an adjustable shelf plate.

This photo is of one of my old rapid fire pistol grips that I made up some 20 years ago. When my hand was in the grip, it couldn't move at all, and the shape of the grip forced the hand into a particular position which could not be varied. My grip was for quite a steep "rake" because that was my style of shooting but others often used more upright hand positions:










This is the more general, adjustable style of grip. I have chosen a left hand grip to show what it might look like for a right handed archer:










In both cases the little shelf up near the trigger guard wouldn't be needed for a bow, nor would there be any need to groove the front strap of the grip as in the second photo.

If I had more energy, I'd make up a set but they are a pain in the butt to make even when you are feeling well and I don't feel like going down that track again.

Jager archery grips might want to have a think about this style of grip as I don't think it would take a great deal to fit a "strap" to his grips to emulate this type of grip.

It would be VERY interesting to see how they performed on a compound bow.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Corsair said:


> Hi
> Alan
> 
> Glad to read that you are having good results. I'll be very interested to discover how you feel about the grips after more prolonged use.
> ...



Beautiful workmanship.

I make fitted wooden cases for my woodworking tools,
but nothing like your pistol grips.

I find Paul Jagers grips very comfortable.

I have a few of his grips for my Rytera Bullet X,
and I have the Jager Magera for my Martin S4.

The feel of the rubberized insert and the tack (friction surface) is just right, like a top quality golf club grip.

At least for my hand,
the grip helps me to find the same hand position every time.

Has to do with the curvature of the thumb area, near the riser shelf,
and
it has to do with the angle of the large, wide thumb muscle pad.


I don't have any torque issues with this grip.
Just align the wrist, point my thumb,
get the carpal bones in the right place (bottom of the palm, near the lifeline),
and adjust the finger sling....

works great for me.

Just shot a 3D yesterday,
and shot a field course a week ago.

Going to shoot field again today.

Agree.

Let's see how the grip performs after another 30 days.

Limbwalker says the grip texture gets even better, with use.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

Hi Alan

I and I expect many others will be very interrested to read how the grips perform over the long term.

Appreciate it if you could keep us posted.


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## lyra (Aug 12, 2006)

Progen said:


> Got mine a few days ago but only had time to try it out yesterday. I found that :-


Hi,

I was looking for one these grips but couldnt find where to buy. Lancaster doesnt list it. And google didnt help either (your post is #1 position when you look for Jager Magera Grip  ). From where I can order one for a hoyt eclipse riser?

Thanks,


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## toxoman (Sep 10, 2004)

Right here


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Corsair said:


> Hi Alan
> 
> I and I expect many others will be very interrested to read how the grips perform over the long term.
> 
> Appreciate it if you could keep us posted.


Corsair, I've said it before, but I see a more than passing resemblance to the old Walther OSP grip.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

Hi Hutnicks

I've owned and used an old Walther OSP and the factory grips are very skinny regrettably. Most of us here made up our own grips as soon as we bought one for that reason.

However they bear a slight resemblance to Jager grips except that the Jager grips are a better angle and somewhat more handfilling.

I think the Jagers are beautifuly made.


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Corsair said:


> Hi Hutnicks
> 
> I've owned and used an old Walther OSP and the factory grips are very skinny regrettably. Most of us here made up our own grips as soon as we bought one for that reason.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on the quality of the Jaegers they are a work of art.

I liked the OSP for the grip. I have small hands and it is hard for me to get a really good fit. A kids or womens bow usually is a much better fit for me, (with the exception in compound of the old Hoyt Spectra riser grip). God I spent ages working with a Browning Medalist to get a grip that was comfortable.

I think it was Scott Pilkington who said it best. "There are two type of people. those working on their grips, and those who are going to be working on their grips."

If the Jaegers can eliminate any or all of the experimentation it will be a massive step forward for archers entering the competitive arena. Especailly at that price.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Hutnicks said:


> I agree with you on the quality of the Jaegers they are a work of art.
> 
> I liked the OSP for the grip. I have small hands and it is hard for me to get a really good fit. A kids or womens bow usually is a much better fit for me, (with the exception in compound of the old Hoyt Spectra riser grip). God I spent ages working with a Browning Medalist to get a grip that was comfortable.
> 
> ...



Pilkington-the airgun smith? 

I actually like the stock hoyt nexus/helix grip
liked the martin aurora grip
have Loesch grips on my skys and matrix bows
might get a Jaeger to try on the nexus though


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

> I think it was Scott Pilkington who said it best. "There are two type of people. those working on their grips, and those who are going to be working on their grips."


All too true:sad:

Nice talking to a pistol man.


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Corsair said:


> All too true:sad:
> 
> Nice talking to a pistol man.


Same here. I got out of the powder burners a while ago and back into air pistol in a small way. I wouldn't feel right without a target pistol somewhere around.

I am surprised and always have been at the lack of cross polination between competition pistol and competition archery. There are a lot of areas of overlap IMO.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

Hi Hutnicks



> I am surprised and always have been at the lack of cross polination between competition pistol and competition archery. There are a lot of areas of overlap IMO.


The opportunities for this would be far greater in the US than here.

Target pistol shooting, particularly the ISSF type which is what I was involved in, has gradually become more and more restrictive by dint of Government policies, such that you almost need a character reference from JC Himself, before being considered for a licence, to say nothing of then getting a permit for a firearm. 

And all this entitled you to was having your name added to the list of paedophiles, rapists, murders etc on a system called CRIMTRAC, run by the Federal Govt, and to be subjected to constant vilification and demonisation by the same Govt whenever they needed a distraction.

It was one of the reasons I gave the game away.


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Corsair said:


> Hi Hutnicks
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am a Canadian actually and it was our mandatory registration fiasco (still to be sorted out) that caused me to "retire" from the powder scene. The laws became so obtuse that a police department in Alberta could not buy ammunition for their officers as they did not have a required permit.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

I'm curious - is our Government copying yours or vice versa? What a bloody farce, eh?

Thank God archery is still free of restrictions - so far, although there have been mutterings here from some of the " We Hate Everything That Isn't Warm, Cuddly and Harmless" Brigade about having compound bows registered.

I suppose there is always croquet, when all else fails.:sad:


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Corsair said:


> I'm curious - is our Government copying yours or vice versa? What a bloody farce, eh?
> 
> Thank God archery is still free of restrictions - so far, although there have been mutterings here from some of the " We Hate Everything That Isn't Warm, Cuddly and Harmless" Brigade about having compound bows registered.
> 
> I suppose there is always croquet, when all else fails.:sad:



I really do not know what template our gov't is following. The consensus was it is a grab for money as I think it is 25 bucks per weapon to register.

I remember well when Austrailia introduced the new laws. What was the stats, a 200% increase in firearm related crime in the first two years (don't know if folks who did not turn in their weapons were considered part of that stat.) The international police chiefs conference the year the law went through went on record as saying that the reason the US has such low burglary rates and occurances of home invasions per capita is that the possibilty of a gun in the home is a deterrant in itself.

We have a 500 FPS ruling here so an airgun or crossbow over that is considered a firearm. With bows there is a stipulation that as long as it has to be operated by two hands it is uncontrolled. Don't know what that means to the handicapped guys who use a mouth tab. And we won't get into my "detainment" for bringing a native blowgun home with me from Venezuela (but hey, blowgun related crime in Canada is at an all time low, it must be working )


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

> And we won't get into my "detainment" for bringing a native blowgun home with me from Venezuela (but hey, blowgun related crime in Canada is at an all time low, it must be working )


Ah yes, the Nanny State - just like ours. WE don't have cap pistols or anything anymore else a SWAT squad will appear on your door step. I kid you not.

Anyway this is probably depressing all of the US readers so I'll desist. You have my sympathy.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Corsair said:


> ...
> 
> *Anyway this is probably depressing all of the US readers so I'll desist. You have my sympathy.*


The law over at my side provides for a death sentence for possession of firearm ammunition alone.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

> The law over at my side provides for a death sentence for possession of firearm ammunition alone


Hmmmph!

So what does possession of an arrow get you - life with hard labour?

What a great place the world is.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Corsair said:


> Hmmmph!
> 
> So what does possession of an arrow get you - life with hard labour?
> 
> What a great place the world is.


Archery is not a controlled activity in Malaysia although it is over in neighbouring Singapore where ownership of a bow requires a license issued by their Arms & Explosives branch of the police force.

No crossbows or air weapons for us too.


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## Corsair (Nov 21, 2005)

progen

Bloody hell.:sad:


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Progen said:


> Archery is not a controlled activity in Malaysia although it is over in neighbouring Singapore where ownership of a bow requires a license issued by their Arms & Explosives branch of the police force.
> 
> No crossbows or air weapons for us too.


I think this is almost worthy of a thread of its own. It's interesting to see how different governments deal with weapons laws. I wonder how the former communist states are dealing with it.


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## Canjapan2003 (Jun 3, 2006)

*Jmb*

Got mine in the mail last week and first time I used it I shot as good as I did with the old grip BUT I felt that my bad shots were easier to diagnose. 
Will see how this grip does me in the long run.


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