# Asa Paris, Texas



## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

We just got back from the shoot. Didn't stick around long enough to see the scores, but the Pro's were finished shooting.


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## djkillaz (Apr 14, 2005)

dang!!! how was the shoot?


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

Loved it. Just wish I could've shot better. Ended up even after the first day in Hunter class. From what I'm hearing and from what I've seen at Miss. and Floriday, you can expect at least the Hunter and Bow Novice classes to be a bit higher.

Heard a rumor that someone in Hunter class was shooting 16 up at one time. Though, I only personally know of a few 206's, though.

My buddy said someone in bow novice was at 20 up.

Really excited about the known distance tomorrow. Before yesterday, I really didn't know what to expect because I'd never shot known 3D before. But after shooting a 108 on the Limbsaver course, I'm not as worried as I was.


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

*pros*

Most courses have been tougher. Gomez is leading the pros with 16up, hunter is led with 20up, Open B is 10up, Open c is 8up, unlimted 7down thats all I can remember. Place is setup great but they did stretch the courses out. You'd better be ready to shoot. Been lucky so far with the weather, hope it continues


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## RyanH (Sep 27, 2004)

I had a really great time at the shoot! Met alot of faces from this board. It was great to put a name with a face!

As far as the shooting went! I was doing really good until the last 5 targets on sat. I dropped 13 points on the last 5 targets and ended the first day 19 down!

Then I made a come back on sunday! I shoot really good and hit 6 14's and 12's. I made one 14 on a 40.5 deer, and a 38 yard 14 on another. I ended up shooting 11 up on sunday! I ended the tournament 8 down which put me in 24th place out of a hundred and something in the hunter class.

With this being my 1st big tourny I believe i did very well.


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## aggie2000tx (May 3, 2006)

The scores are up now


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

*KY Rules + Sword*

Bow Novice
1 Doug Dailey 432
2 Marty Frazier 424
3 Channey Sword 420

5 Doug Hunt 410

All from Kentucky!
All shooting a Sword Acusite bow sight (probably a coincidence)

Hunter

1 John Wheeler 426
2 Tim Grinage 414
5 David Jones 406

also shooting Sword Acusite! (freaky)


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## RyanH (Sep 27, 2004)

allxs said:


> also shooting Sword Acusite! (freaky)


Freaking one awesome site to!


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## Dusty Britches (Feb 10, 2003)

Is that true that Bow Novice and Women's Hunter are all known distance? If so, why?


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

*Tracy...*



Dusty Britches said:


> Is that true that Bow Novice and Women's Hunter are all known distance? If so, why?


Don't know about WH but yes Bow Novice is all known distance. The ASA made the change for year 2007 in an attempt to draw more begining shooters to the events. I believe it is working for those clubs and events that have tried it. I know that I've gotten several to try 3-D that never would have if it was unknown. Bow Novice is supposed to be a starter class for first timers, after a season they should move up. I know several abuse this class but the ASA is working on cleaning it up.


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

What supprised me was the amont of staff shirts and sponser patches on the (NOVICE) corse. Not to mention the flashy target bows .:mg:


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Glad to know I'm NOT the only one to see this. I went down there thinking I would be shooting with people more to my skill level, not against people that have been to ALL 3 ASA Pro-Ams this year. That was the only downside to this whole thing IMO. 

But that's allright, two can play THAT game!!


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## Dusty Britches (Feb 10, 2003)

Hey, there, Mike!

My sister shot the Women's Hunter and she was very disappointed that it was all known distance. She said she wishes 1/2 was unknown to give that element of 3D challenge. I don't recall seeing in the ASA rules that either of those classes would be all known distance, but I'll go back and read the rules again. 

How did you shoot?


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

LX hunter said:


> What supprised me was the amont of staff shirts and sponser patches on the (NOVICE) corse. Not to mention the flashy target bows .:mg:


Why is that surprising? Every Tom, Dick and Harry is a sponsored shooter nowadays...


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

*Not ALL*

Sorry, but NOT all of us are sponsered. I came to shoot with what I thought to be a group of people much like myself, not people that are team shooters or staff shooters, but hunters with hunting setups


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Dusty Britches said:


> Hey, there, Mike!
> 
> My sister shot the Women's Hunter and she was very disappointed that it was all known distance. She said she wishes 1/2 was unknown to give that element of 3D challenge. I don't recall seeing in the ASA rules that either of those classes would be all known distance, but I'll go back and read the rules again.
> 
> How did you shoot?


Better than I expected, I hadn't looked at a target but one time since the doc told me to quit the outdoor stuff last April... The leg is much better and I think as long as I'm careful and stay away from the hilly shoots I can still compete.. I'm gonna give it a try anyway...


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

gator said:


> Sorry, but NOT all of us are sponsered. I came to shoot with what I thought to be a group of people much like myself, not people that are team shooters or staff shooters, but hunters with hunting setups


I know exactly what you mean....


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## Sooner Girl (Aug 15, 2005)

All I know is that I shot like crap!!!:wink: But I had Fun, and I have a new buddy


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

Mike

You are right about that and I dont know about most but from my part of the state it is not verry easy to even get a 30% deal .

But as long as it helps asa the shop,s the company and the sport I am all for it . 

Novice is Novice though and I dont know to many shops that would sponser a person that has not proven them selfs a good archer .


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## mathewsgirl13 (Mar 12, 2007)

Sooner Girl said:


> All I know is that I shot like crap!!!:wink: But I had Fun, and I have a new buddy


I shot like crap too, but oh well, it was a blast and I met great new friends that we will be coming up to OK to shoot and party with more often!


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Chances are, I for one would have NEVER even given much thought to joining and shooting an ASA event, had ot not been for known yardage, so it is working, that's for sure!!!


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

Gator

Its all about fun and growing the sport and I to think the known yardage is a great idea as long as it is not abused to the point that a true novice like your self has no good chance .

You know what to expect now and have a taste for the competition you know what it takes to be at the top and the scores needed to get there now all you have to do is pound the targets from 0-30.

Good luck and keep em in the X .


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Thanks LX. This shoot has DEFINATELY got me hooked now. In the past 6 years, I have shot 5 times. This year alone I have shot that much, just getting ready for this. I am already planning on attending next year for sure, and wondering what I can do to step up my game. Just wondering what ASA is gonna do to "clean up" the novice class as mentioned before


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

gator said:


> Chances are, I for one would have NEVER even given much thought to joining and shooting an ASA event, had ot not been for known yardage, so it is working, that's for sure!!!


Yep I had a young man with me that had never shot foam and wouldn't have come if it were unmarked... He's hooked now and even bought a Zenith release to learn back tension... :mg: 

So I know the ASA's plan is working...


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

JAVI said:


> Why is that surprising? Every Tom, Dick and Harry is a sponsored shooter nowadays...



Patches on your shirt and fancy embroidery ,dont alway mean that they are sponsored or a 'shooter'. At most of the shoots , its just the fashion! I think alot of the patches are handed out for free, and I know I saw Bohning shooter shirt on sale for $10, for that price even I can afford to be sponsored a little bit.


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Guys in my class, (novice) HAD "Team Shooter" on their shirts................


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

gator said:


> Guys in my class, (novice) HAD "Team Shooter" on their shirts................


Gator, 

There are some who abuse the class, its intended purpose is to get the new archer involved but several seem to think it is their domain to hang in for the wins. I believe the ASA is taking steps to clean this up I know in Texas the rules are being enforced. Open C is the same way and Texas is now moving them folks right on up the ladder... as it should be. 

As for Team and staff shooter shirts, some of us call them scare or war shirts. Most are co-op shooters and not manufacturer sponsored. And many are just patches that are included in the box when you buy a product.. I wouldn't worry about it, just practice and shoot well... let the ones who feel the “need” wear the patches... 

The best shooters will win with or without the patches...


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Ohhh, I know, just kinda frustrated with it all, ya know??? Go down there thinking one thing, ONLY to see something different. Heck, I had a guy here at work offer to buy me some GT Series 22 shafts, but I didn't, only because I thought that to be an unfair advantage, boy was I wrong!!!!!! But it DOES feel good knowing I went into that shoot with hardly ANY experience, and came REALLY close to shooting with these guys!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I probably beat some of them to!!!


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

gator said:


> Ohhh, I know, just kinda frustrated with it all, ya know??? Go down there thinking one thing, ONLY to see something different. Heck, I had a guy here at work offer to buy me some GT Series 22 shafts, but I didn't, only because I thought that to be an unfair advantage, boy was I wrong!!!!!! But it DOES feel good knowing I went into that shoot with hardly ANY experience, and came REALLY close to shooting with these guys!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I probably beat some of them to!!!


The young man I brought with me shot BN and ended up 46th... no patches and the first time he'd ever shot foam was the Sims and team shoot on Friday. I'm very happy with his progress and he's already talking about moving up...:wink:


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## Hook Em (Dec 1, 2005)

allxs said:


> Bow Novice
> 1 Doug Dailey 432
> 2 Marty Frazier 424
> 3 Channey Sword 420
> ...


Man that Sword must be the ticket!!! Good thing I bought one while I was there! Put it on the bow last night and can't wait to actually get it sighted in!!


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

Talk about sandbaggers...Chaney Sword shooting in Bow Novice?


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## JMARLEY7 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Bow novice is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


432, 424 420 NOVICE MY BUTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Hope you enjoy your payout, You sandbagging piece of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

Don't get me wrong guys I believe there are some sandbaggers in the novice classes. But its 30yd max with known yardage. There are going to be guys who can shoot come in and do well there. You could take a guy with one pin on his sight that is a descent shooter and have his day and tear a course up. But the great thing about the ASA you will move up and not be allowed back in so really sandbaggers couldn't hang around that long.


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## TX Bowhunter (Dec 13, 2004)

JMARLEY7 said:


> *Bow novice is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> 
> 432, 424 420 NOVICE MY BUTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...



Well at least you picked the mature way to express your opinion


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## JMARLEY7 (Sep 23, 2004)

Please, If you you believe these guys posting these scores really should be in novice, then you are just as much a part of the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A novice is just that, a novice. He should not be posting that kind of score. 

These are not novice type scores. Put these scores up against the local guy at your club, who shoots for the first time, does he shoot 30 up.

These guys just want the payout and so called glory!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TX Bowhunter (Dec 13, 2004)

JMARLEY7 said:


> Please, If you you believe these guys posting these scores really should be in novice, then you are just as much a part of the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> A novice is just that, a novice. He should not be posting that kind of score.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying they should have or shouldn't have been in there don't even know most of them but the name calling was just a little harsh IMO. Everyone has the right to their own opinions and that is what is nice about this site you can get several differant opinions and form your own from that, but to call some one that on a public forum is a little extreme. 

You could have easily made your point without the name calling.


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## gphotoman (May 12, 2005)

*nice meeting u*



Sooner Girl said:


> All I know is that I shot like crap!!!:wink: But I had Fun, and I have a new buddy


here is one of the shots


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## Sooner Girl (Aug 15, 2005)

gphotoman said:


> here is one of the shots


Nice meeting you to, That pic is awesome:wink:


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

*Here we go with the name calling again!*

If you qualify by rule to shoot in a class, whatever that class may be, then by my standards your not an 'sandbagger'.

I dont know of any other national events that any of the top the bow novice competitors finished highly in. And the ASA governs their class pretty strictly!

Here the rule for you to consider
12. Bow Novice - Fixed pins, no magnification, any release. 30 yards, 280 FPS

This class is reserved for first year ASA Pro/Am participants, or *those who won less than $300.00 in prize money in this class in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition. * At any point during the season that a competitor in this class earns more than $300.00 they are required to compete in their choice of Open C, Hunter, or other higher class for the remainder of the season. See “Hunter” above for stabilizer rules and restrictions. No Shooter of the Year will be awarded in this class.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Tell you what*



JMARLEY7 said:


> *Bow novice is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> 
> 432, 424 420 NOVICE MY BUTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...



Ill take someone thats never shot a ASA before that only hunts. Ill bet with known yardage and short distance that I can teach them to shoot those scores in less than a month:wink: . Once you win $300.00 your outta of there. Actually my female shooting partner won the first semi pro class she ever shot and never had shot a ASA event before. She also won the Worlds in her first year. Theres many that can shoot good from the start.
DB


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## mathewsgirl13 (Mar 12, 2007)

gphotoman said:


> here is one of the shots


Man, I look like a migit standing next to Pink!!! ha ha!! I told you Greg I should have moved places! :wink:


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

I like the way the Novice is handeled in texas and ASA realy should look at doing the same .

Any novice that is 300 or up at 30 taget qualifyer must move up to the next class. 

I feel that the high scores needed to win or place would keep a true NOVICE from competing .


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

allxs said:


> If you qualify by rule to shoot in a class, whatever that class may be, then by my standards your not an 'sandbagger'.
> 
> I dont know of any other national events that any of the top the bow novice competitors finished highly in. And the ASA governs their class pretty strictly!
> 
> ...


Then since I have won no money in the ASA I should be allowed to shoot bow novice... 

There is another rule about prior archery experience and I believe it should be enforced...


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

This was my first ASA event. I have been bow hunting for 6-7 years now. I don't shoot 3D except for 1 event a year, the Realtree Okie Get Together. This year, I shot 5 practicing for this event. I am SURE that had I shot more, and been used to upper and lower 12's, I could have shot with the guys in the Top 5, two of which, has been to ALL 3 ASA events this year alone..........


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

*Back it up Rhinefield and Marley*

Channey Sword has shot 4 (total) ASA pro-am, hes finished UP 1 time (paris),
hes earn 0 dollars (before paris). You bunch of cry babies. I'll bet that every time you get beat it by some sandbagger. And the rest of you guy growning about all the patch and shooter shirt on the bow novice range, quit worry about the other shooters and concentrate on the targets. If you cant beat the course on 30 yd max and known distance, then you aint gonna win any shoots around hear either, cause they're will be about a dozen or so (so called sandbaggers) who will with or without the patches on thier shirts.


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Crying, no, not really. I shot just about where I wanted to, could have shot where I wanted, but blew a couple of shots. But when I walk onto a range where I am supposed to be competyeing against other "novices" and I see guys there with target bows, and shooting 3D shafts, instead of hunting type shafts, well, what does THAT say??? I could have, and WOULD have had 3D type shafts, but I thought it would be "wrong" to have that type shaft in NOVICE. Bet your butt if ASA doesn't change the rule for next year, I WILL have them.................


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

I think there is a bit of sandbagging going on in all the amateur classes some of it intentional and some because of attitude. 

In my opinion bow novice should be limited to one year of competition whether at the state or national level. After that you should move up to the class of your choice. 

Open C should be the same way, a one shot deal... play for one year then move up.... 

In fact all the marked yardage classes should be tiered with one year limits for participation. Make room for the novice, because after one year you ain't a beginner anymore.

And prior archery experience should be accounted and considered by those who sign up.


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

What do you mean by prior archery exp? Do you mean at some sort of competitive level, or on a hunting type level? How would you mandate it? Not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious, this is ALL new to me


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

gator said:


> What do you mean by prior archery exp? Do you mean at some sort of competitive level, or on a hunting type level? How would you mandate it? Not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious, this is ALL new to me


Here is the rule... for the Federation level and 

ASA club, area and state representatives have the authority and responsibility to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery performance or experience, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization. ASA Pro/Am and Federation earnings (if known) will be considered.

And here is the rule in the Pro/Am

ASA reserves the right at any time to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery experience, performance in other archery competitions, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization. If, for example, someone shooting ASA for the first time feels that they are entitled to compete in the Open “C” class, but their previous archery experience, or competition status in another organization, confirms that they are not a novice, then ASA reserves the right to require that individual to compete in a higher Open class. Anyone who competes using a compound bow as a professional or semi-professional in other nationally sanctioned 3-D or field events must compete in the respective ASA Pro class. In addition, anyone who receives sponsor support that exceeds $2,000.00 per year in products, equipment, services, or cash is required to shoot in semi-pro or pro. Anyone who has earned more than $5,000.00 in career ASA Pro/Am earnings must compete in Semi-Pro or Pro. Any requests for special consideration for assignment to a lower class must be submitted in writing for approval by the Competition Committee


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

Gator

Man dont let this get to ya there are always going to be some that want to be the big man in a little room .

You see them all the time at the local level and at the local shops talking about how good they are and the 3-d events that they have won around there area .

And if you look into it they have been in the same class for 5years or more just so they can be the big man.

Wile most of us move up they stay and beat there chest I dont know about you but if I were some local 3-d hero I would have a hard time telling every one I was bow novice champ at known yardege when the jr eagles are un known out to 25 .

Keep you head in the game and use this for what it is a training and learning experaince .

Shoot one or two more get your feet on the ground and move up


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Oh, I'm not gonna let this get me down, if anything, this just makes me strive to shoot that much better. I plan on moving on up to hunter class in '09. Only reason I am gonna stay in Novice next year is for the experience, give me a little more confidence before I make that leap.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

gator said:


> Oh, I'm not gonna let this get me down, if anything, this just makes me strive to shoot that much better. I plan on moving on up to hunter class in '09. Only reason I am gonna stay in Novice next year is for the experience, give me a little more confidence before I make that leap.


There you go gator, thats the spirit , practice up and maybe next year the asa will come up with a class that is so restrictive (4" feathers and camo bows and whisker biscuit only class) that very few will shoot it and you'll finish higher in.


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

*Wow*

What exactly do you think I shot this year????? Minus the WB, THAT is what I shot, 4" feathers on GT 5575's, TT, Camo SB, and a 6" Stabilizer WITH a trigger release, NO back tension for me




allxs said:


> There you go gator, thats the spirit , practice up and maybe next year the asa will come up with a class that is so restrictive (4" feathers and camo bows and whisker biscuit only class) that very few will shoot it and you'll finish higher in.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

I am actively campaigning for the known yardage classes to be tiered and a mandatory limit on the time you can spend in each class... Make room for the true beginners and grow the sport.


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## zwbonner (Nov 18, 2005)

Sounds to me like a lot of politics.

So let me get this straight. I am in my second year of shooting at a club and One year of bowhunting under my belt.

In my first year of club shooting which was last year, I won the Novice class and the Shooter of the Year for our Club. I am now in the bowhunter class.

Now, IF i have never shot an ASA event before I can shoot the NOVICE class with known yardage?????


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

zwbonner said:


> Sounds to me like a lot of politics.
> 
> So let me get this straight. I am in my second year of shooting at a club and One year of bowhunting under my belt.
> 
> ...


As the rule currently stands, Yes... Unless someone points out to the State director and or the ASA that you have prior experience, you sure can... And I don't feel that is fair to the true beginner...


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

Thats right ZW you could but I do think you have more pride that that .

And if you won shooter of the year in your club I know you could shoot 46 up on the known .


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## zwbonner (Nov 18, 2005)

I totally agree with you 100% on this Javi.

you cannot tell me that someone that has been bowhunting for 5-6 years and decide to go to a 3d range and shoot novice class, especially with known distance is a NOVICE.

I personally have never shot an ASA event but will start next spring. 

I cannot believe that people would not want to shoot at least to their skill level, not their status level in competitions.



btw Javi, hope you enjoyed our shoot a couple weeks back. I don't think I got around to meet you that day. It was kinda crazy at the booth


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## LastCall (Mar 18, 2005)

Am I a sand bagger?!?!

I shoot Bow Novice! I can shoot 10 up on 20 targets, did it in Florida! I was 20 up with 5 targets to go at the Classic last year, shot two eights and finished 3rd with 16 up.

Am I a sand bagger?!?!

I bought my first bow on March 24th, 2005. I have been shooting exactly 2 years! No hunting or any other form of archery experience at all! I have a great group of friends that have helped me get to the level I am at, as well as getting a professional coach to help me.

Am I a sand bagger?!?!

I have shot all of the ASA Pro-Ams this year so far. I won money in Florida (12th), none in Mississippi and none in Texas. I will move out of Bow Novice next year, whether I win out or not.

Am I a sand bagger?!?!


I think it is ridiculous that there is always someone that comes on here and starts accusing someone of sand bagging after every major shoot. Show me proof that someone is sand bagging? How are they sand bagging?

In the examples posted above: 

How is someone that has shot in 4 ASA events and won money in one event a sand bagger?

How is someone that shot in their first ever ASA events this year and won his way out a sand bagger? He won his way out in 2 events! He is gone from Bow Novice and still labeled a sand bagger?


The ASA is a top notch organization, they have rules to keep the so called sand baggers out of the entry level classes! So why do you people keep labeling people sand baggers.

If you are not good enough to shoot those scores on a 30 yard known distance course, then practice up. This isnt hunting practice, this is amateur competition. If you want to shoot it for hunting practice then great, I am sure there are some that do. But, if your shooting for hunting practice dont go crying when you get your butt kicked by an amateur archer with a target bow, fat arrows and a patch on his shirt! This is competition, so come prepared to compete!

My target colored bow will not make me shoot better than your camo bow! My target bow may be designed to be more forgiving than your hunting bow, but its still the archer that makes the shot.

Fat arrows may be a slight advantage for some, I will give you that, but first place in Texas was using Blackhawk Vapors, not fat arrows.

And, if a patch on my shirt would make me shoot better, I would cover it up with them. It must be those patches on my shirts that make me shoot so well? I better put some more on there! 

:cocktail: LastCall:cocktail:


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

So let me get this right, just because I have bow hunted for five or six years, but hardly EVER shoot 3D, I could be considered "experienced"??? There is ALOT of difference between a foam target and a 12 ring


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

You guys are putting to much emphasis on the class name (bow novice) its the entry level pin shooting class for the ASA pro-am events. Over in the IBO they named thier entry level class (Hunter) - that right! IBO Hunter class is the IBO's entry level class for adults, and there are guys in there that have been shootin it for years. Ya'll keep acting like it should be reserved for first time 3D participants. I dont know to many people who travel across the country to a regional event, pay for fuel, $35 entry fees and stay in hotels to shoot in their very first 3d shoot. Make 50% of that class move to the ASA hunter class, more money for me!:wink:


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## zwbonner (Nov 18, 2005)

gator said:


> So let me get this right, just because I have bow hunted for five or six years, but hardly EVER shoot 3D, I could be considered "experienced"??? There is ALOT of difference between a foam target and a 12 ring


I don't know gator, I am in the same boat with you. I just started shooting 3d last year. but I want to start shooting more. 

I personally would not start in the novice class, but that is my choice, even though I am eligible for that class


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Really? To much emphasis on the name? What does the word "NOVICE" mean? Let's look it up in the dictionary, shall we?? Here it is : "someone new to a field or activity". Therefore, someone that has been shooting 3D competively should not be considered a novice IMO, but that is MY OPNION


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

gator said:


> Really? To much emphasis on the name? What does the word "NOVICE" mean? Let's look it up in the dictionary, shall we?? Here it is : "someone new to a field or activity". Therefore, someone that has been shooting 3D competively should not be considered a novice IMO, but that is MY OPNION


CHANGE THE NAME NOT THE RULES! DUH!


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

This is my first year of SERIUOSLY shooting 3D, and by NO MEANS am/was I ready to step up to hunter class, my yardage estimation needs serious work. Novice was a good start for someone like myself.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

gator said:


> This is my first year of SERIUOSLY shooting 3D, and by NO MEANS am/was I ready to step up to hunter class, my yardage estimation needs serious work. Novice was a good start for someone like myself.


And that is what the class was designed to be.... A place to start and learn the game...


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

388 OUT OF 560! Come on, enough with the sour grapes! 33 sandbaggers in bow novice out of 93 shootes!:mg: :zip:


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

*Buddies*



allxs said:


> CHANGE THE NAME NOT THE RULES! DUH!


I realize these are yoiur buddies and all, and are here to defend them. That's fine, but don't get upset at those of us that don't agree with some of the things that are happening at the Novice level. I for one did not expect to see target bows, fatter shafts, and back tension on a novice course. To me, someone shooting that stuff really and truly can't be a novice. I am SURE that wasn't there first bow.


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

*Goal*



allxs said:


> 388 OUT OF 560! Come on, enough with the sour grapes! 33 sandbaggers in bow novice out of 93 shootes!:mg: :zip:



Me sour, nope. I had a goal to shoot, and I achieved that goal, I am HAPPY with what I shot. Not to bad for someone's FIRST ASA shoot, huh?????:mg: :mg: But when I get down there expecting to see hunting setups and see target bows, well, something is definately wrong there. Granted, by ASA rules, they can do that, hey, I could have gone with 3D arrows, but I also have more PRIDE in that, and I didn't feel that was ASA's intent when they did the "NOVICE" group.


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

You answered your own question . 

YES you are a sandbagger you shot last year ASA NOVICE and that was unknown well guess what this year you are not a novice but you have shot all of the pro ams this year novice .

Time to move up and play with the big dogs it sure would be embarasing to sign up for the next ASA as a novice only to find out that you have been moved up .


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

You gonna shoot the Hunter class next year Gator or are you gonna sandbag, next year you wont be a first year ASA participant. Come on out on the Hunter course and look at all the pretty colored bow and patchy shirts!


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## Dusty Britches (Feb 10, 2003)

I believe the $300 mark is combined for ASA events, including qualifiers.

ASA Rules, Class Definitions:
12. Bow Novice - Fixed pins, no magnification, any release. 30 yards, 280 FPS

This class is reserved for first year ASA Pro/Am participants, or those who won less than $300.00 in prize money in this class in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition. At any point during the season that a competitor in this class earns more than $300.00 they are required to compete in their choice of Open C, Hunter, or other higher class for the remainder of the season. See “Hunter” above for stabilizer rules and restrictions. No Shooter of the Year will be awarded in this class.


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## zwbonner (Nov 18, 2005)

With all this political stuff I have to ask this question.

How do people make friends at these "pro/am" shoots? lol


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

*Depends*

On where your buddies shoot

Look, you're the one getting all defensive here, not me. Like I have said REPEATEDLY, up until this year, I have NEVER shot 3D COMPETIVELY, whenever I did, it was with 1-2 friends, and I would use a rangefinder, and it was about once a year, nor more, no less. ALL my shooting is done in my backyard. Had I practiced more for this shoot, chances are I would have shot higher. Novice for me was a starting place. If I shoot it next year, I have NO plans on shooting to WIN, I just shoot to have fun, and to see how I stack up to others with my skill level. I KNEW I could not win this shoot, and had no plans to. 



allxs said:


> You gonna shoot the Hunter class next year Gator or are you gonna sandbag, next year you wont be a first year ASA participant. Come on out on the Hunter course and look at all the pretty colored bow and patchy shirts!


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

*Later*

Seems like all these politics come out later. I didn't wanna say squat about the novice group, but since it was brought up, I figured I'd chime in. One of these days I'll learn to keep my opnion to myself

NAHHHH, I doubt that:wink: 



zwbonner said:


> With all this political stuff I have to ask this question.
> 
> How do people make friends at these "pro/am" shoots? lol


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## zwbonner (Nov 18, 2005)

gator said:


> Seems like all these politics come out later. I didn't wanna say squat about the novice group, but since it was brought up, I figured I'd chime in. One of these days I'll learn to keep my opnion to myself
> 
> NAHHHH, I doubt that:wink:


Well sometimes we all let stuff slip.

You just have to agree to disagree. Like I said, i am like you a bowhunter but just started shooting 3d.

Some people don't give a squat about hunting, so they buy tournament bows. to each their own. I am about to buy a tournament bow for myself.


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Oh yeah, I didn't even know ANYTHING about the ASA until this year............ Didn't even know they existed to be honest


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

Hey X 

You can shoot novice for the next 15 years if the rules allow it but dont try to justify it on a archery web site when most know what is truly going on.

You novice boys from KY beat your chest in your area no body ells is impressed .:cocktail: 

You can bet because of the very high scores and skill level of archers in novice ASA will act to solve the problem


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

It's obvious that the rules need to be tweaked a bit or the name needs to be changed.

To me, you should only be able to shoot Novice class for one year.

With the rules the way they are, I could've went to the Pro/Am and signed up for Bow Novice. And unless someone from my area would've told the officials that I have been shooting competitively for 4 years and won several Hunter class shoots, I would've been allowed to shoot Novice. Would I have won?? No. Would I have finished higher than some of the real "novice's"? Yes.

Bottom line, the Novice class should be based on "skill" & "experience". Bling-bling bows, fat shafts, back tension releases and patches don't make you a better shooter. Skill and experience are what counts. Once you compete competitively at an ASA sanctioned shoot, you may only shoot novice for that year. That seems simple to me.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

gator said:


> On where your buddies shoot
> 
> Look, you're the one getting all defensive here, not me. Like I have said REPEATEDLY, up until this year, I have NEVER shot 3D COMPETIVELY, whenever I did, it was with 1-2 friends, and I would use a rangefinder, and it was about once a year, nor more, no less. ALL my shooting is done in my backyard. Had I practiced more for this shoot, chances are I would have shot higher. Novice for me was a starting place. If I shoot it next year, I have NO plans on shooting to WIN, I just shoot to have fun, and to see how I stack up to others with my skill level. I KNEW I could not win this shoot, and had no plans to.



I dont mean to get on ya gator,some of the guys who posted earlier got nasty calling some of my friends sandbaggers - got my back up a little. but seriously for this conversation sake , next year you wont be a first year ASA participant! would you feel like you should be eligible to shoot Bow Novice again, or should you have to move up???


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Chances are, I will move up if I shoot next year. My weakness is range estimation, that is the reason for me shooting novice class. I really don't know how much effort I will put into 3D between now and then either. My main concern is not scoring high, but loosing arrows. I'd rather score a 5 than lose an arrow because I misjudged the yardage


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

gator said:


> I'd rather score a 5 than lose an arrow because I misjudged the yardage


:wink: Hmmmm. I remember a Okie get together where something similar happened. I'm sure you would've rather had a 5 then, as well.:wink:


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

*Why you!!!!!!!*



ol'okie said:


> :wink: Hmmmm. I remember a Okie get together where something similar happened. I'm sure you would've rather had a 5 then, as well.:wink:



Why'd you have to bring THAT up??????:wink: :wink:


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

hey allxs...

The INTENT of the bow novice class was to allow NEW inexperienced archers an opportunity to compete in 3D. It was NOT intended to give a bunch of experienced archers an opportunity to show their machoism by beating the heck out of newbies.

From Websters -
Novice = beginner, inexperienced

Sandbagger = to conceal or misrepresent one's true position, potential, or intent especially in order to take advantage of, to hide the truth about oneself so as to gain an advantage over another. :thumbs_do 

I'd hardly consider Chaney Sword a novice in archery.  

BTW when I did compete in ASA events I shot open C the 1st year and moved to open B the next couple of years, which argueably has the most entires and the toughest competition. I didn't have to worry about being beat by SANDBAGGERS because there weren't many in the classes I shot in. :wink:


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Dusty Britches said:


> I believe the $300 mark is combined for ASA events, including qualifiers.
> 
> ASA Rules, Class Definitions:
> 12. Bow Novice - Fixed pins, no magnification, any release. 30 yards, 280 FPS
> ...





Pro/Am have nothing to do with the Federation. They are two completely different functions. 
The only simularities are: they use the same classes and they get you to the championships/Classic. The way its done is two different ways. Pro/Am is by needing to compete in at least 2 or winning one. 

Federation is on a state level and you must go from a qualifier(club level) to the state championship to acheive your way into the Classic.

Any monies won are not accumulated togeather for any classification.

The state director has the authority to move a competitor to a higher class if it is deemed the shooter is more experianced then the class they are achieving to compete in. 

This information is relayed to the ASA Federation director and to the home office.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

YRhinefield said:


> hey allxs...
> 
> The INTENT of the bow novice class was to allow NEW inexperienced archers an opportunity to compete in 3D. It was NOT intended to give a bunch of experienced archers an opportunity to show their machoism by beating the heck out of newbies.
> 
> ...




Hey riney,
I'm surprised you can read, let alone own a dictionary.
ASA isn't governed by websters : heres there definition of novice:

12. Bow Novice - Fixed pins, no magnification, any release. 30 yards, 280 FPS

This class is reserved for first year ASA Pro/Am participants, or those who won less than $300.00 in prize money in this class in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition. At any point during the season that a competitor in this class earns more than $300.00 they are required to compete in their choice of Open C, Hunter, or other higher class for the remainder of the season. See “Hunter” above for stabilizer rules and restrictions. No Shooter of the Year will be awarded in this class. 

read this, Paris texas held an ASA Pro-AM, not the Websters Pro-am

btw why isnt your realname on your profile?:embara:


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## Hemingway (Sep 7, 2005)

allxs said:


> Hey riney,
> I'm surprised you can read, let alone own a dictionary.
> ASA isn't governed by websters : heres there definition of novice:


Why that's mighty christian of you...


...carry on...


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

allxs...

Not only can I read but I can also write which apparently you can't!

" ASA isn't governed by websters : heres there definition of novice:"

Learn to use correct english and spelling - their not there.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

Hemingway said:


> Why that's mighty christian of you...
> 
> 
> ...carry on...




THanks Hemingway, You are correct! I shouldn't be taking shots at my fellow archers like that! btw: whats the 'take5' about? May GOD bless you also!


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## shooter74 (Jul 7, 2005)

*cry babys*

stop your crying and just shoot . sandbaggers yes there are alot of them but does that mean we have to hear about all this crap ... just shot your bow


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## LastCall (Mar 18, 2005)

:darkbeer: 

Im over it! See you all on the range!

:cocktail: LastCall:cocktail:


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## Hemingway (Sep 7, 2005)

allxs said:


> btw: whats the 'take5' about?


Just a little visual reminder... :wink:


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

I guess the crybabies get their way though! I understand Channy is going to shoot Open A from now on to avoid any further accusations. That just shows him to be more honorable than his accusers. He only placed in the money at all one time in Bow Novice and got his name dragged through the mud. You punks should be ashamed of yourselves!!!


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## JMARLEY7 (Sep 23, 2004)

Boone,

Are you serious!!!!!!!!!! You can take a bowhunter. That has never shot 3D and the the first time you take them to a 3D course, they will shoot 32 up!!!

They don't know the scoreing areas , yardages,etc,. You are either Merlin or Miagi.

Come on these people are bagging for glory and money, and the ASA is allowing it to take place to add to the profit margin , just like the IBO allows this to go on in their Hunter class.

You crack down on the lower classes, and how do you pay for the So Called Pro Classes. 

It is simple economics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not attacking you Boone, believe me I understand that you are a great promoter of the sport and a friend of the archery community. But!!!!


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

jwshooter11 said:


> I guess the crybabies get their way though! I understand Channy is going to shoot Open A from now on to avoid any further accusations. That just shows him to be more honorable than his accusers. He only placed in the money at all one time in Bow Novice and got his name dragged through the mud. You punks should be ashamed of yourselves!!!


LMAO.

Open A?? Why not Semi Pro???:wink: 

You know, I could care less about sandbaggers. They're at every tournament you go to around here. Heck, by definition alone, I could be a sandbagger. I've placed in Hunter class at every tournament I've been to this year except the Pro/AM. Does that mean I should jump to Unlimited/Open?? Maybe. Who cares. I enjoy Hunter.

My only problem with this whole thing is the terms "bow novice" and how the ASA polices it. Like I mentioned before, I could've shot bow novice if I had wanted to.

To me, if you've been shooting 3-D for over a year....you're not a novice.

If you've been a member of the ASA for more than one year....you're not a novice.

If Channy truly believes he is a novice, then he needs to stay in that class. If this is his first year shooting 3-D, then he needs to stay in that class. But if one of the two isn't the case, then shoot Hunter class. With the way he shot this past weekend, he can compete.

Bow novice is a good idea but it was originated with the first time shooters in mind. If they were just wanting to split up Hunter Class they would've made it Hunter A and Hunter B.

Just this punk's opinion.:wink:


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

*Me, Ashamed?????*

Me, ashamed, Not hardly. Think some thought that maybe I was "cryin" about the sandbaggers, but in all reality, I don't feel as if I was. I went down there thinking I would be shooting with true "NOVICES". After what I saw on the range, I knew right then that some of these folks had been shooting 3D or some other type of TARGET archery ALOT longer than some of us TRUE novices. That is the only problem I have with the whole deal. I didn't go down there to win, I went to have fun, and have fun I did. 

Straight to Open A?? Why not go hunter, Open B, or Open C?????? All the way to open A, what does THAT say about his ability????




jwshooter11 said:


> I guess the crybabies get their way though! I understand Channy is going to shoot Open A from now on to avoid any further accusations. That just shows him to be more honorable than his accusers. He only placed in the money at all one time in Bow Novice and got his name dragged through the mud. You punks should be ashamed of yourselves!!!


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

30 yard known to 50 unknown boy that one big jump for a novice archer .

Good luck hope you do good


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## LastCall (Mar 18, 2005)

Would you guys just let it go! 

You call him a sand bagger and say he shouldnt be in Bow Novice, now you criticize him from moving up?

Let it go!

:cocktail: LastCall:cocktail:


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

gator said:


> Thanks LX. This shoot has DEFINATELY got me hooked now. In the past 6 years, I have shot 5 times. This year alone I have shot that much, just getting ready for this. I am already planning on attending next year for sure, and wondering what I can do to step up my game. Just wondering what ASA is gonna do to "clean up" the novice class as mentioned before


We're working hard on that.

In the Bow Novice Class and the Open C Class, as soon as someone wins $300 they have to move out of those classes (immediatly) and may never return to them. The 1st place shooter at each Pro/Am automatically gets the congrats letter and moves up. If someone places in the top 5 or 6 a couple of times they will move up too.

We're moving about 25 shooters a year out of each of those classes at the Pro/Am level. In the Pro/Am rules it states:

"ASA reserves the right at any time to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery experience, performance in other archery competitions, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization. If, for example, someone shooting ASA for the first time feels that they are entitled to compete in the Open “C” class, but their previous archery experience, or competition status in another organization, confirms that they are not a novice, then ASA reserves the right to require that individual to compete in a higher Open class."

At the Local and State level there is a sentence in the Rules that states that:

"ASA club, area and state representatives have the authority and responsibility to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery performance or experience, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization. ASA Pro/Am and Federation earnings (if known) will be considered."

Don't get discouraged, those shiny bows and "sponsor's" names on shirts don't translate into "better shots and scores". Some folks just like to dress up when they go out on the town.

Plus, if someone normally shoots in the MBR (IBO) or Hunter (ASA) Classes on the local level, they can't legally register in the Bow Novice Class.

I'm excited by the number of posts that I've read on this thread from folks who tried an ASA Pro/Am for the first time in Paris, TX and liked the shoot.

BTW, the Women's Unlimited Class is a step up from the Women's Hunter Class and is 50/50 instead of all marked, if some of you ladies want to shoot some unknown yardages instead of all marked.

Hope this helps.

Dee Falks
ASA National Federation Director


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

JMARLEY7 said:


> Boone,
> 
> Are you serious!!!!!!!!!! You can take a bowhunter. That has never shot 3D and the the first time you take them to a 3D course, they will shoot 32 up!!!
> 
> ...


Marley, you sure don't know how the ASA operates. Each class shoots for it's own entry fees. The "novices" are paid back from their entry fee and the "pros" are paid from their entry fees. ASA doesn't siphon money of of the amatuer classes to pay the pros.

To everyone who advocates a 1-2-whatever year time limit on participating in the novice classes, let me pose you a question.

If someone comes to a shoot, registers in the novice class, places last and doesn't shoot any more for the rest of the year, should they be forced into the next higher class next year?

If someone comes to every shoot every year for 10 years and places one place OUT of the money at every shoot, should they be made to move up?

Why should you rebuild an entire (actually 2) competition class EVERY year, when 75% of the competitors haven't won a dime and the 25% that have have already been moved out?

The Women's Hunter Class is a "novice" class and there is move-up criteria. So, should that class be cleaned out EVERY year and they all be moved up to 40 yards, as you are suggesting for the Bow Novice and Open C classes.

There used to be a 2 year time limit on Bow Novice and Open C. What we found was that people who had been in those classes for 2 years, won no money and placed in the BOTTOM of the pack ALL of the time were being forced out and were quitting the sport. They might not have been "novices" by the true sense of the definition, but they weren't winning anything either. All they were doing was contributing.

I get calls all of the time from competitors and Directors alerting me to folks who are trying to register in the wrong class and I get calls from folks who want to make SURE that they register in the right class. The system isn't broke, but if you want, we can try to fix it until it is...

There about 50 people who make up the ASA Rules Committee and these things are discussed thouroughly before they are decicded upon. Anyone can submit a request directly to the ASA for a rules change or modification (just write it out, no forms need) and it will be considered. 

But, before the band wagon gets rolling too fast and the music gets too loud, think about how this all effects the shooter who travels to national tournaments to enjoy the outdoors, fellowship with friends and just take a break in nature's bueaty, and NEVER places in the money nor will ever step up on the podium and win one of those shiny buckles.


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Dee, I hope I didn't come off as "whining" about the shooters in the Novice class, as that was really never my intent. As I ahve stated, this was my first ASA shoot of any type, I just joined this year. I was just surprised by the equipment being used in the novice class, that's all. I just didn't expect to see it, that's all. I came down to have a good time, to see how I would like it, as I used to think that I wouldn't like shooting competively like that, and that to was not what I expected, I actually ENJOYED it. Now HUNTER class?? That may be a different story for me, but I will work on it this year, my biggest problem is yardage. 

How long has ASA had a novice class? Has it always been known yardage?


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## normalwear (Mar 29, 2007)

*Thanks LD!*

Thanks LD! Thanks for getting on here and setting some of the guys straight. The ASA governs it classes better than any organization I know of , it definately better governed than most local shoots. You cant sandbag very long in the ASA, cause they move you up when you reach a certain point. ASA has got it right and has had for some time. There will be whiners no matter what you do!


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## LastCall (Mar 18, 2005)

I dont know how long the ASA Bow Novice class has been around, but, ASA just switched to "known" yardage this year. It used to be all unknown. So that is new.

Here is what is new for 2007 in the ASA:



> ASA announces final plans for targets and known distance for 2007 Pro/Am season
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:cocktail: LastCall:cocktail:


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

Thank you for your response Idf . 

I am glad to hear that ASA knows our concerns valid or not atleast they listen .

The Paris ASA was a great event but to answer one of you questions if some one shoots novice for 10 years and never wins should he move up .

I dont think moving up from novice has any thing to to about if you win or not if so me and alot of archers would still be there .

And after one year or more than one event shooting up on the corse should cansel the novice status not weather you won any thing or not it is not about winning its about skill level and keeping it fair .

And after one year you are NOT a novice any more plaine and simple and if you allow the people that are shooting 46 up to stay novice who do you think will be winning all of the events in that class and if they are posting thouse kind of numbers you know as well as most on here that they truly are not novice archers . 

I congradulate those guys that shot that good those are great scores even at known yardages I heard the corse was kind of tricky .

But I think the playing field should be even and if you look at this years pro am in novice in appears that it it a 3 or 4 man race .


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

gator said:


> Dee, I hope I didn't come off as "whining" about the shooters in the Novice class, as that was really never my intent. As I ahve stated, this was my first ASA shoot of any type, I just joined this year. I was just surprised by the equipment being used in the novice class, that's all. I just didn't expect to see it, that's all. I came down to have a good time, to see how I would like it, as I used to think that I wouldn't like shooting competively like that, and that to was not what I expected, I actually ENJOYED it. Now HUNTER class?? That may be a different story for me, but I will work on it this year, my biggest problem is yardage.
> 
> How long has ASA had a novice class? Has it always been known yardage?


I didn't think you were whining. I've been pretty busy with stuff since we finished Paris (move-up lists and such... :wink: ) and this thread got pretty long before I saw it.

The Bow Novice and Open C Classes have been around since 1999.


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

LX hunter said:


> Thank you for your response Idf .
> 
> I am glad to hear that ASA knows our concerns valid or not atleast they listen .
> 
> ...


I hear what you're saying and I'm listening to you too. The problem with arbitrary score limits is that all 3D courses aren't created equal. Some are easier and some are more difficult. Terraine and lighting and distance have much to do with the scores, more so than at field shoots. Setting a score limit is a great idea IF NFAA would rank order the AMFS or ABHFS or any other class where there are many competitors. I've shot a few field ranges and there isn't 5 points difference in any of them (IMHO), but a 3D range could add or subtract 20 points easily over 20 targets, just due to distance, light, target proximity to trees, angled targets...the list goes on.

I liked the NFAA handicap system (and so does the golf world) but that's out the window now and everyone just competes with raw score and flights. Flights are cool and if you can suck just bad enough to be 1st place in the bottom flight then you get more money and a bigger trophy than the guy/gal who shot 3rd place overall...

The Novice Class used to be the Bowhunter Class. It got confused too much with the Hunter Class and that got too confused with the Hunter Unliited Class so the names were changed to Bow Novice, Hunter and Unlimited to reduce the confusion. The progression through these class is based on "demonstrated skill" and equipment. If semantics is getting in the way, I'll lobby for a name change to Pins C, Pins B and Pins A just like in the Open Classes. Or we could have the Bow, Hunter and Unlimited Classes.

If you look at this:
This class is reserved for first year ASA Pro/Am participants, or those who won less than $300.00 in prize money in this class in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition.

It says nothing about "novice" ability, but it's understood that if someone's ability is such that they are capable of being competitive in a higher class, then the club, area and State reps or even other shooters can alert the ASA to the fact. It has happened that an advanced shooter registered in the Bow Novice Class and took first place. After discussion with the shooter, they agreed that it wasn't appropriate and declined the award.

All of this is to try and put some historical perspective into the thread. Evolution takes time and the decisions we make need to be the right ones that take us forward and not set us back. If you email me your ideas I'll make sure that they are considered at the Rules meeting in Sep.

Dee


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

Hey Gator! I didn't say he NEEDED to be in Open A! He is going there because he FINALLY shot decent at an event and you guys accused him of being a sandbagger! He feels that at least if you happens to shoot a good score there he won't be ridiculed!


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Dee...

Like I said when we talked, I have no problem with the guy who shoots the class year after year but isn't really competitive. That guy is just having fun and I'm more than happy that the ASA provides those folks with a place to have fun. But you and I both know that there are those who work the system in all the amateur classes by shooting a few events each year and making just under the limit. Then they quit competing in the Pro/Am's until the following year. These are the folks that I consider sand baggers. 

I see no problem with the equipment rules for the classes, it is easy enough for everyone to comply. If someone chooses to use small arrows and sights without axis adjustments for the Bow Novice class that's their decision; everyone has to start somewhere. 

And as a coach I love the marked yardage, it allows me to get someone started without the intimidation of having to judge. After they shoot a couple of events they know if they want to proceed up the classes and learn yardage.


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## normalwear (Mar 29, 2007)

LX hunter said:


> Thank you for your response Idf .
> 
> 
> But I think the playing field should be even and if you look at this years pro am in novice in appears that it it a 3 or 4 man race .



You just dont get it LX , it cant be a 3 or 4 man race for long. Listen to LD. if a bow novice competitor is head and shoulder above the rest or if he just get lucky a couple times and wins $300 (cumulative), That competitor is forced to move up immediately and forever. And, And because the ASA pays out to the top 20% of the field, all it take is a couple of top ten fiishes and your gone, you dont have to win or put up big numbers. ASA is on top of it. Your just not listening. If you'd put a time limit on that class or any class, and force guys up before they are shooting well enough to move up, you'd be having alot of guys just stay home!


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## LastCall (Mar 18, 2005)

> I'll lobby for a name change to Pins C, Pins B and Pins A just like in the Open Classes


I vote for this idea!

:cocktail: LastCall:cocktail:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

jwshooter11 said:


> Hey Gator! I didn't say he NEEDED to be in Open A! He is going there because he FINALLY shot decent at an event and you guys accused him of being a sandbagger! He feels that at least if you happens to shoot a good score there he won't be ridiculed!


I don't know Chaney Sword from Adam, but if he is jumping to Open A because he perceived that someone accused him of sandbagging in the Bow Novice class then he really has issues... 

If he is capable of shooting in an open class, he should choose one in which he can be competitive. If he has prior competitive archery experience but lacks judging skills I might recommend Hunter, Open C or possibly Open B they are designed to be intermediate steps to the 50 yard classes. Open C is a move out class just like Bow Novice, but a bit more difficult because of judging 50% of the targets and a bit longer yardage. 

The one issue with Bow Novice that I can see as a potential problem is the indoor or field shooter who has never shot 3-D and signs up for the class... They can lap the field at 30 yards max and known yardage...


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

JAVI said:


> Dee...
> 
> Like I said when we talked, I have no problem with the guy who shoots the class year after year but isn't really competitive. That guy is just having fun and I'm more than happy that the ASA provides those folks with a place to have fun. But you and I both know that there are those who work the system in all the amateur classes by shooting a few events each year and making just under the limit. Then they quit competing in the Pro/Am's until the following year. These are the folks that I consider sand baggers.
> 
> ...


I agree... :cocktail: :wink:


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

normalwear said:


> You just dont get it LX , it cant be a 3 or 4 man race for long. Listen to LD. if a bow novice competitor is head and shoulder above the rest or if he just get lucky a couple times and wins $300 (cumulative), That competitor is forced to move up immediately and forever. And, And because the ASA pays out to the top 20% of the field, all it take is a couple of top ten fiishes and your gone, you dont have to win or put up big numbers. ASA is on top of it. Your just not listening. If you'd put a time limit on that class or any class, and force guys up before they are shooting well enough to move up, you'd be having alot of guys just stay home!


Here's the first move-up list for BN and OC updated for Hattiesburg. When the Scores are finalized and the payouts posted for Paris (Monday) I'll revise it and update it for Paris.

http://asaarchery.com/smf/index.php?topic=5131.0

Chaney Sword may not be on it because he hasn't made any money until he got lucky in Paris, but if he has another good weekend, he will be.

Stay tuned...


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## LX hunter (Feb 13, 2007)

Sorry Norm

I new about the $300 move up list but I guess I was thinking too much like Javi I know alot of field guys that have never done the 3-d thing that would eat the 30 known for lunch .

Now is a guy that shoots a 520-or-530 field round considered a novice if he has never been to a 3-d event ? 

I think some here seem to think so or would justify it because of the lack of 3-d but any one that can lay down those scores would have no problem with 20 14,s 

Thats more what I am getting at and why I think score should be a indicator of talent .

Is there a eazy way to fix it probably not but I think mabe a 30 known 10 unknown might be in a good direction I thought the 20-20 was great and added a great element to the game .

Money and fame will bring in new archers but I can see where some of the classes could be abused by some wanting to get more out of this than just a good time and just the thought that if I practice hard enough I might be good enough to place and I think that is what keeps most of us doing this great sport the hope that on any given day we might just be in the zone .


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

The one issue with Bow Novice that I can see as a potential problem is the indoor or field shooter who has never shot 3-D and signs up for the class... They can lap the field at 30 yards max and known yardage...

This I can agree with! The issue, however, was someone shooting 4 ASA shoots in their life, all in the Novice class, placing 3rd one time and being called sandbagger. It just ain't right! He shoots the best he can at every event. Marked yardage 3d and he only shot up one time. I do not feel in any way that doing your best can be considered sandbagging.


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

$300 and their gone,problem solved. If they are more qualified than some its just one of those things. There's just not a 100% fair way to do it. But ASA does the best job of them all. The discusion has been had before:zip:


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

LX hunter said:


> Sorry Norm
> 
> I new about the $300 move up list but I guess I was thinking too much like Javi I know alot of field guys that have never done the 3-d thing that would eat the 30 known for lunch .
> 
> ...


That's a hard one to fix, but it's kind of a "with your background of 10 years as the TN State Champion Field Archery Shooter and winning your class in Vegas 4 years in a row, you are too experienced to shoot in the Bow Novice Class".

Remember, ASA reserves the right to move shooters up to a higher class based on...and we have done that.

I just hope it all evens out and I think that after shooting in the competitions most folks see that the top shooters in the BN and OC classes haven't started out as "experts" and "sandbgged" their way in. They just shot until it was their turn to be at the top...like the rest of us are still waiting to do.

See ya on the range...
Dee


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## ttripp (Jun 7, 2004)

ok guys, let me throw something in the ring here for ya to think about just a little bit.

one guy stated that he went there thinking he would see something differant than he saw when he got there, fat shafts,back tension releases,12 inch long stabalizers etc. there is one simple solution for that....

read the rulebook,maybe ask around, i mean you are on this forum just as most of the asa shooters.

many of you dont like the way the class is run and think if someone shoots way up then all of a sudden they are sandbaggers,my comment to that is simple,HOGWASH...............

THE ASA IS VERY STRINGENT IN ENFORCING THE MOVE UP RULES,BELIEVE THAT...

i shot bow novice for several years and got my but handed to me on the asa tour,even though i could win everything under the sun locally and based on my local experiance i was TOLD,NOT ASKED to move to another class and i did so. dont think for a second that the asa wont move someone they know shouldnt be there.

one of the people that has been mentioned in this thread is a sponsor of mine,beyond that he is a very good personal freind and A NOVICE SHOOTER...
how can you say that someone who has shot 4 asa pro am shoots and has never shot above even untill this past weekend is anything but that??

he has one good weekend and he is a SANBAGGER???? PLEASE......

all that means is that he has done exactly what the class was intended to do. he went to a few shoots,he got beat,he went home and worked hard and improved his game enough to make it into the top 3 in the class. wasnt that the idea of this class?? to help a shooter improve his game and move to the next level.

now,do i think channy should move to open a?? not at all. i think he should maybe move to open c or hunter. but if he does that and his hard work pays off with a win then he would be a sandbagger in that class as well in many of your eyes.

maybe,just maybe if you would actually practice SHOOTING 3-D ARCHERY you could shoot a good score one day as well. but if all you are going to do is cry and complain about it then you will be beat by the next batch of guys that come into the sport that are willing to work at it.

there are a few people in this sport that i greatly respect and LDFALKS is one of them. the man knows the rulebook inside and out and he knows how to enforce it to a T...
HOW ABOUT THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE COMPLAINING SO MUCH JUST STEP BACK A BIT AND ALLOW HIM TO DO THAT.


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

Amen Brother!!!


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

Tripp, I only started comin on AT here as much as I do in the last week. I am SOOOO SORRY I didn't ask the questyions I should have, but with ZERO experience in ANY ASA type shoot, how could I know what questions to even ask? I DID read the rulebook BTW. 

For the record, I have yet to call ANYONE a sandbagger, there are some others that have, please don't stick me in with them. All I have done, at least in my eye's, is TRY and get a better understanding of what takes place at an ASA shoot, as this WAS my first. Attitudes such as yours, I hate to say, will deter people such as myself to stay away from future shoots, but if you had read, you would understand my feelings on shooting competively anyway. It was something I didn't want to do, now I have and enjoyed it, and now, I get drug across the coals, because I am only saying what I feel after seeing what I saw. But can you HONESTLY tell me that ANYONE shooting BT is a "novice" as defined by the word? 

You see, I REFUSE to call ANYONE out, and I have read ALL my posts here, and have yet to accuse ANYONE, BY NAME, of sandbaggin. I don't even know who Channy Sword is, other than the founder of Sword Sights, so I have NO IDEA what kind of equipment he even used, so it would be hard for me to pass judgement on him. But I did see ALOT of other shooters using the said equipment, and I just honestly didn't expect to see it. As a matter of fact, I wasn't even referring to Channy Sword when I spoke of the "4 ASA shoots". BUT if memory serves me right, Paris WAS #3 for the year, therefore he HAD to have shot one last year, giving him 1 year of ASA experience, as a novice. Please correct me if I am wrong. If you speak to him, and he feels I have slighted him in anyways, PLEASE, have him PM me, or someone get in touch with me, and I will explain myself to him. My intent was NEVER to call anyone out, but to educate myself, to make myself better. This IS the last I have to say on this, UNLESS someone feels the need to bring me and my comments up again


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## ttripp (Jun 7, 2004)

gator said:


> Tripp, I only started comin on AT here as much as I do in the last week. I am SOOOO SORRY I didn't ask the questyions I should have, but with ZERO experience in ANY ASA type shoot, how could I know what questions to even ask? I DID read the rulebook BTW.
> 
> For the record, I have yet to call ANYONE a sandbagger, there are some others that have, please don't stick me in with them. All I have done, at least in my eye's, is TRY and get a better understanding of what takes place at an ASA shoot, as this WAS my first. Attitudes such as yours, I hate to say, will deter people such as myself to stay away from future shoots, but if you had read, you would understand my feelings on shooting competively anyway. It was something I didn't want to do, now I have and enjoyed it, and now, I get drug across the coals, because I am only saying what I feel after seeing what I saw. But can you HONESTLY tell me that ANYONE shooting BT is a "novice" as defined by the word?
> 
> You see, I REFUSE to call ANYONE out, and I have read ALL my posts here, and have yet to accuse ANYONE, BY NAME, of sandbaggin. I don't even know who Channy Sword is, other than the founder of Sword Sights, so I have NO IDEA what kind of equipment he even used, so it would be hard for me to pass judgement on him. But I did see ALOT of other shooters using the said equipment, and I just honestly didn't expect to see it. As a matter of fact, I wasn't even referring to Channy Sword when I spoke of the "4 ASA shoots". BUT if memory serves me right, Paris WAS #3 for the year, therefore he HAD to have shot one last year, giving him 1 year of ASA experience, as a novice. Please correct me if I am wrong. If you speak to him, and he feels I have slighted him in anyways, PLEASE, have him PM me, or someone get in touch with me, and I will explain myself to him. My intent was NEVER to call anyone out, but to educate myself, to make myself better. This IS the last I have to say on this, UNLESS someone feels the need to bring me and my comments up again




JASON, i am not trying to bash what you say, just pointed out that you said you went and didnt know what to expect.
i hope you continue to shoot the asa shoots and hopefully we can shoot together sometime.
but i will tell you this and hopefully it wont be missunderstood by anyone.

i have been a member of the asa and a shooter for a looooong time and was there when the "bow novice" class came to be. there used to just be a bowhunter class and some shooters wanted more yardage,some wanted it to stay the same and the asa strted the now known as hunter class and changed the then bowhunter class to "bow novice".
way back when they did this all the discussions were about having a class where new 3-d archers could come in and get there feet wet for a while,shoot some decent scores and learn the game before being "thrown to the wolves" so to speak.
that was the idea behind the $300 move up rule. so no one was just sitting there winning over and over again and that rule has worked very well.

i have listened to guys complain that novice shooters dont shoot back tension releases and such till it is disgusting. the guys that are doing so are simply trying to afford themselves every opportunity to learn the game and progress right on up the ladder and most do at a fairly rapid pace.

i watched guys like wayne cowen, he was a bow novice shooter who won his first ever asa shoot then moved to open c and placed very well in that class for a few shoots as well. he then CHOSE to go to open b and won the classic in that class. he did so all while shooting a back tension release since that is what he chose to learn with.

i have also seen guys that stayed in bow novice for many years,never winning a dime or placing at an asa tournament. does that mean that because they have shot for years they have no business being in that class?
i dont think so, i think that if that person was to be moved up to another class they would get beat even worse and not enjoy shooting at all and probably not come back.

if a person cant place,or win where they are at i dont see any reason to make them move and get beat any worse. if the guys are winning in this class then they are going to get paid "up to $300" and then they have to move out. the class works just like it is and dose what it was intended to do.

BTW, did you guys happen to notice that it also took a score of 18 up to win the hunter class?? a 40 yard class with unknown distance on one day. if a fella is an even to 10 up shooter in bow novice and jumps right into that he is in for a rude awakening more often than not. i say let the guys get some good rounds under their belts,win a few dollars along the way and when they get moved out, if you are working on your game and learning as you should be then your day will come as well.

i want everyone to enjoy shooting an asa tournament, and forcing people up in class before they have the ability level to be competitive isnt fun and they wont come back, i have seen to many that didnt over the years.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Wish someone would call me a sandbagger*

Just doesnt seem to happen:tongue:   I moved up to Open A and you would think someone would call me a sandbagger


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> Just doesnt seem to happen:tongue:


Sand Bagger..:tongue:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*What are friends for.*



JAVI said:


> Sand Bagger..:tongue:


You have seen me shoot.  Im sure looking forward to the day I get everyone riled and get called a sandbagger. Means your good. That Okarcher is a sandbagger, he always winning.:wink: Is Art a sandbagger Javi, he won two in a row.
DB


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> You have seen me shoot.  Im sure looking forward to the day I get everyone riled and get called a sandbagger. Means your good. That Okarcher is a sandbagger, he always winning.:wink: Is Art a sandbagger Javi, he won two in a row.
> DB


Sure he is... but it don't do no good to sand bag in them classes... He's already sealed his fate... Next year Pro:wink: 

that's what I'm doing... I'm lulling all them ol'boys in SP to sleep... then one of these days I'm gonna pounce on 'em and win...:tongue:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Where do the pros go when they sandbag*



JAVI said:


> Sure he is... but it don't do no good to sand bag in them classes... He's already sealed his fate... Next year Pro:wink:
> 
> that's what I'm doing... I'm lulling all them ol'boys in SP to sleep... then one of these days I'm gonna pounce on 'em and win...:tongue:


If pro won all the events. Would we call him a sandbagger:wink:  
DB


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> If pro won all the events. Would we call him a sandbagger:wink:
> DB


I'm pretty sure someone would call them something...  

but it probably wouldn't be Sand Bagger....:tongue:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Been there*



JAVI said:


> I'm pretty sure someone would call them something...
> 
> but it probably wouldn't be Sand Bagger....:tongue:


If you win to much you must be cheating and using a range finder with your binos:tongue:  So far Im pretty safe on all that as well.:wink: 
DB


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> If you win to much you must be cheating and using a range finder with your binos:tongue:  So far Im pretty safe on all that as well.:wink:
> DB


Dan …

To me a sand bagger is someone who is fully competitive and capable of winning a particular class or division but instead measures and controls his score to win as much cash as possible without being forced to advance to a higher class. 

Someone who shoots to the best of their ability and wins is not a sand bagger, unless they then sit out the rest of the year to avoid having to move out of the class… 

We both know that Art isn’t that way, and it wouldn’t do any good in the pro classes to play that game… There ain’t anywhere else to go…


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## tdarst (Oct 10, 2005)

hoytgirl13 said:


> Man, I look like a migit standing next to Pink!!! ha ha!! I told you Greg I should have moved places! :wink:


I think you might be part Migit I have stood next to you befor.


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## TX Bowhunter (Dec 13, 2004)

ttripp said:


> ok guys, let me throw something in the ring here for ya to think about just a little bit.
> 
> one guy stated that he went there thinking he would see something differant than he saw when he got there, fat shafts,back tension releases,12 inch long stabalizers etc. there is one simple solution for that....
> 
> ...



Good post ttrip.

TX


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

DB, use to call me a sandbagger when I was in Open C.:wink: I just told him when I win my $300 I would move up and I did. Now im in Open B and he still calls me a sandbagger, not really. He told me that in fun, but some did because of how I shot on a local & state level. I use the classes as a ladder to measure my skill level. I hope to win my way out of Open B this year but If I can't I'll be Open B again next year. I feel if I can't compete well enough to win my way out then I need to stay right where im at. Thats just my 2 cents.


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## LastCall (Mar 18, 2005)

JAVI said:


> I don't know Chaney Sword from Adam, but if he is jumping to Open A because he perceived that someone accused him of sandbagging in the Bow Novice class then he really has issues...


Channy was very upset when he heard these accusations and hastily decided if people were going to call him a sandbagger, he would just jump to the top and that would shut them up. This was a decision that was made in haste and anger.

We have since talked to him and he is checking his options. I dont think he will be in Open A, but I dont think is is planning on shooting any more Bow Novice either.

:cocktail: LastCall:cocktail:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

LastCall said:


> Channy was very upset when he heard these accusations and hastily decided if people were going to call him a sandbagger, he would just jump to the top and that would shut them up. This was a decision that was made in haste and anger.
> 
> We have since talked to him and he is checking his options. I dont think he will be in Open A, but I dont think is is planning on shooting any more Bow Novice either.
> 
> :cocktail: LastCall:cocktail:


Glad to hear it...


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

LastCall said:


> Channy was very upset when he heard these accusations and hastily decided if people were going to call him a sandbagger, he would just jump to the top and that would shut them up. This was a decision that was made in haste and anger.
> 
> We have since talked to him and he is checking his options. I dont think he will be in Open A, but I dont think is is planning on shooting any more Bow Novice either.
> 
> :cocktail: LastCall:cocktail:


This has probably gotten a bit over the edge...

Think back to when Brandon Reyes and Danny McCarthy and a couple of other good shooters were shooting Open C about 5 years ago. They dominated the Class and Brandon won SOY in the MBO Class in IBO while he was shooting Open C in ASA.

More power to them. The rules allowed it and they did nothing wrong.

Everyone said that Danny SHOULD be in Open C because even though he was GOOD he needed time to "mature" before going to Open A. These guys were relativly young shooters (Danny had only been in the game for a couple of years) and no one was calling them sandbaggers or any of this other stuf f that folks are throwing around now.

If we had had the same rules in effect back then, they would have gotten about 1 shoot peice and been in Open B, like folks are today.

Let's back off and take a deep breath. Some very capable people, NOT including myself, have worked hard to improve the rules over the years. They may not be perfect, but remember, 3 years ago a guy could dominate the Bow Novice or Open C class ALL year before he was gone, robbing many other shooters of their day in the sun. A woman could, and some did, dominate the Women's Hunter class for YEARS, but no one said a thing about that.

I think Chaney Sword should stay in the BN class until he makes $300.00 and then move up. Who knows, he could continue to shoot as badly as he did for the first couple of shoots and never win his way out. Anyone, even myself, can put together one good weekend in their life...putting together 2 good weekends might require a whole 'nother lifetime...


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## tdarst (Oct 10, 2005)

I have a solution to the problem! Every body go home and practice really hard. Get really good then we can all be sandbaggers. If we all shoot good, no more sandbagger’s problem solved! 

So now let’s talk about the Paris Pro AM that is what this thread was supposed to be about, not sandbaggers. I can start a thread titled D#&n sandbagger’s if yall want me to?

Me and a couple of my buddies went and had a great time. We picked up a lot of new equipment, learned a lot of new tricks, and got a lot of much needed practice. I liked the half known distance it helped me practice guessing yardage. 


:iamwithstupid:


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

tdarst said:


> I have a solution to the problem! Every body go home and practice really hard. Get really good then we can all be sandbaggers. If we all shoot good, no more sandbagger’s problem solved!
> 
> So now let’s talk about the Paris Pro AM that is what this thread was supposed to be about, not sandbaggers. I can start a thread titled D#&n sandbagger’s if yall want me to?
> 
> ...


The indoor facility with 2 food stations was great. I asked the Mayor if they could put a big BBQ smoker on the pavilion next year and just run it 24/7 :tongue:


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## gator (Aug 11, 2003)

ldfalks said:


> The indoor facility with 2 food stations was great. I asked the Mayor if they could put a big BBQ smoker on the pavilion next year and just run it 24/7 :tongue:



HECK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!:tongue: :tongue: :tongue:


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## tdarst (Oct 10, 2005)

My son was disapointed that there were not any hotdogs down at the playground concession stand. That was the only negative thing that I heard. Oh and that he only got to shoot 10 targets in his class.


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

tdarst said:


> My son was disapointed that there were not any hotdogs down at the playground concession stand. That was the only negative thing that I heard. Oh and that he only got to shoot 10 targets in his class.


Can't help with the Hot Dogs, but if you will email me about the need for the Jr. Eagles to shoot a full range then I can try to help with that.


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## Ausie-guy (Dec 7, 2002)

I only have 2 complaints from the shoot.

1 It was a long walk to the ranges. I know there is no shortage of tractors, trailers and hay bales in Paris so maybe next year they can have hay rides to and from the ranges.

2 We shot both our rounds on Saturday and was told we would be given distance cards for the 2nd round at check in and again at the range but when we got back to the range for our second round we where told we had to shoot it at unknown yardage.

Apart from that it was a lot of fun and we will be back next year.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

*Hooray LDFALKS!!!!*



ldfalks said:


> This has probably gotten a bit over the edge...
> 
> Think back to when Brandon Reyes and Danny McCarthy and a couple of other good shooters were shooting Open C about 5 years ago. They dominated the Class and Brandon won SOY in the MBO Class in IBO while he was shooting Open C in ASA.
> 
> ...



I dont alway agree with LD, But Lately son, I think you're right on the money, dead-on, inside-out!!!!


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## cd3d (Dec 28, 2005)

Well said LD. Channey shoot the class that you want. Stay in BN and get your money. And to all the babies whinning. SHUT UP and practice. If you are not winning then practice some more. Thats the only thing I do not like about this sport is people sticking there nose where it don't belong. 

Hang in there Channey and get all you got coming. (Good shooting)


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Bad post*



cd3d said:


> Well said LD. Channey shoot the class that you want. Stay in BN and get your money. And to all the babies whinning. SHUT UP and practice. If you are not winning then practice some more. Thats the only thing I do not like about this sport is people sticking there nose where it don't belong.
> 
> Hang in there Channey and get all you got coming. (Good shooting)


Not whining. Right now there shooters shooting classes and like Dee said many realize there not in the right class. So dont tell us it doesnt happen and say shut up. It happens, ASA does the best it can but it dont always get fixed. Ill be sure and tell someone that can shoot really well to join the novice class because they have never shot and won $300.00, not hardly.
DB


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## cd3d (Dec 28, 2005)

The man shoots good one weekend and now he is a sandbagger. What about the 1st and 2nd place's? (Every one that places well are sandbaggers)
Get real.


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## Goldeneagle (Oct 24, 2002)

I shot Bow Novice for 3 years. Never won anything. Came in 2nd or 3rd some, but never 1st. And only at the state level. Now this is my 3rd year in Open C. Still haven't won anything. I'm kicking around the idea of moving to Unlimited next year. I figure 3 years in Novice and C are enough. I my be getting my rear handed to me all the time, but I'm having a blast.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Get real*



cd3d said:


> The man shoots good one weekend and now he is a sandbagger. What about the 1st and 2nd place's? (Every one that places well are sandbaggers)
> Get real.


So you think no one ever shoots in a class below the level of exspriance:wink: It happens.
DB


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Ausie-guy said:


> I only have 2 complaints from the shoot.
> 
> 1 It was a long walk to the ranges. I know there is no shortage of tractors, trailers and hay bales in Paris so maybe next year they can have hay rides to and from the ranges.
> 
> ...




What class did you shoot? Open A / Unlimited / Semi Pro and the Pro classes only shoot unknown both days.


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## cd3d (Dec 28, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> So you think no one ever shoots in a class below the level of exspriance:wink: It happens.
> DB


It happens but that don't mean that Channey is a sandbagger. When you point someone out like that you have a good chance of making them not want to come back. Its like calling him a cheater. Is that what were after? Just because you place your a sandbagger. Yea keep it up. And we wonder why this sport is dieing. Keep it up boys!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*I totally agree*



cd3d said:


> It happens but that don't mean that Channey is a sandbagger. When you point someone out like that you have a good chance of making them not want to come back. Its like calling him a cheater. Is that what were after? Just because you place your a sandbagger. Yea keep it up. And we wonder why this sport is dieing. Keep it up boys!


 I dont see the sport dieing. Only tough econoy and the cost of driving to the shoots.
DB


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## Ausie-guy (Dec 7, 2002)

> What class did you shoot? Open A / Unlimited / Semi Pro and the Pro classes only shoot unknown both days.


I shot Open B, it was my first ASA national shoot and I have only shot 1 other ASA shoot and that was last year and I shot that in Open C maybe I should have put the pin sights on and shot Bowhunter Novice :laugh:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*I shot Open A*



Ausie-guy said:


> I shot Open B, it was my first ASA national shoot and I have only shot 1 other ASA shoot and that was last year and I shot that in Open C maybe I should have put the pin sights on and shot Bowhunter Novice :laugh:


I will shoot that class the rest of this year.
DB


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