# Equipment vs. Practice



## wyoming4x4 (Mar 16, 2009)

*gadgets?*

Well my personel opinion is that good practice will prevail in the end. Once you learn how to shoot properly and just maintain is a key factor. I'm still learning and shoot well but my practice habits are making me a stronger more consistant shooter and my scores are showing it. But I do understand the gadget system upgrades temp fixes. Good form in the end will prevail is what I think.


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## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

Most are always fine tuning there equipment to achieve certian results( or up grade) there equipment that they feel could be better to achieve those results. But there is no substutute for good form and follow through and consitancy within your form throught the shot process!


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## Cmcdonald1955 (Aug 11, 2009)

I know one pro that say's he only need's about 2dozen shot's a couple time's a week to stay sharp but he is a lot younger than i am andi ahve the older i get the more i need to shoot Chris


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## Cmcdonald1955 (Aug 11, 2009)

I know one pro that say's he only need's about 2dozen shot's a couple time's a week to stay sharp but he is a lot younger than i am and i have found the older i get the more i need to shoot Chris


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## DariusXV (Feb 18, 2009)

Gentlemen,

I'm appreciating your input.

Thank you.


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## wyoming4x4 (Mar 16, 2009)

*More practice!*

I was speaking with some of our top shooters about this discussion. One thing for sure is never settle for what you are shooting now. Always a evolution to chasing perfection in archery. I'm not really sure what perfection is to each shooter? To me its shooting vegas style targets and shoot a perfect score inside X every shot. This is probably asking to much but its what I would consider a perfect day in vegas style, we shoot 450 vegas. I have shot a 447 several times and thats my best and improving. I shoot bowhunter also but I love the target shooting indoors. Another question is what is accurate shooting to you? Is it killing a deer or shooting X's. Kill zone is a lot bigger in a deer than shooting a vegas target X. The one thing is my form is getting better and more consistant, I'm getting more comfortable in shooting my back tension. When in a pressure situation I don't fall to pieces like I used to when form wasn't as good. NEVER SETTLE for good enough is the biggest thing I can think of for shooting excellent whether its a sling shot or target bow. I hear good enough all the time at our shop and then they wonder why they can't outshoot me. Never Settle for good enough!! tuning arrows bow setup what ever never settle. We might go crazy doing this but what the heck crazy isn't so bad. Good luck and happy shooting.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

you will never win Vegas with a wall-mart bow

that being said I don't believe you have to have the latest and greatest bow every year either. If you have good maintained equipment that is made for the job you want it to do you can compete with anyone almost. 

don't over look practice. if you want to excel you need to be practicing at least 4 times a week to reach your genetic potential! "genetic potential means some people will never be good enough to shoot a 290 score let alone a 300 score. 

example: "if I practiced basketball every day for 10 years I might be good at basketball but Ill never play for the lakers!" 

if you want to be stagnant in your scoring shoot 2 times a week. If you want to be all over the place and erratic don't practice or practice only once a week.

however if your practice is crap or have crap form all the practice wont mean a hill of beans. Perfect practice makes perfect shots.
:darkbeer:


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## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

its not how many arrows you shoot, or how many times a week you shoot! its all about the substance of the practice routines. Perfect practice, makes for perfect shots.


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## joracer (Feb 6, 2010)

swbuckmaster said:


> you will never win Vegas with a wall-mart bow
> 
> that being said I don't believe you have to have the latest and greatest bow every year either. If you have good maintained equipment that is made for the job you want it to do you can compete with anyone almost.
> 
> ...


I knew a fello 25 years ago I think he was a Gammons he could take
a recurve and shoot insinctive win everthing around against everything.
They say he could hit asprins pitched in the air, some have it some don't.
He had what you say "genetic potential", someone just happened to hand
him a bow one day......

On the Vegas deal, Is the best shooter today shooting any better than
the best shooter 20 years ago????I don't know......maybe???

and on the basketball note, I'd say the best B-ball player in the world 
probably never has touched a B-ball before...for he's just a "Rainbow in 
the Dark" Just something different to think about....


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## IBOHunt3D (Jun 6, 2006)

As for the vegas thing, today's shooters are shooting higher scores than the shooters of 20 years ago. If you look at the past 3 years of vegas even, the winning scores have increased (well X count anyway) by a fairly large amount. When it comes to vegas, the shooters are really pushing each other to acheive extremely good scores. 

As for practice: I will reiterate that it is not about arrow count, but rather improving on a particular skill. My current practice routine involves shooting from about 10 feet from my target to work on my release. I am not satisfied until the release "goes off" without me even thinking about it. I work hard to keep it that way. For others it will be form, back tension, aiming, etc. Just practice with a purpose, as the worst thing you can do is just fling arrows to say you "practiced."

CG


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## mrb1982 (Feb 16, 2009)

viperarcher said:


> its not how many arrows you shoot, or how many times a week you shoot! its all about the substance of the practice routines. Perfect practice, makes for perfect shots.


I am not a professional, but in my experiences, this statement is very true. I only get to shoot about twice a week, at best sometimes, because of my work situation and family. If you are just going to go out and fling a few arrows, not worth it. If you are going to go out for 2 hours of intense, focused shooting, that is good. I used to go out every spare few minutes I had, whether I had kids with me or not, but was finding that it was not good practice when your mind can't be focused. Also, something else I have heard from the pros that I think is true is having confidence in your setup. If you have to have the newest, shiniest thing in the world to make you feel better about your setup, that is half the battle. So much mental to archery, from shooting to equipment. Just my input from an amateur.


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## wyoming4x4 (Mar 16, 2009)

*serious shooting/good atitude.*

Forgot to mention about great attitude and working on some aspect of your shooting. It seems that once I get something going great like my bow grip and then something else will give me problems. Its a never ending cycle. Always working something that I feel is lacking in my shooting. This month is my anchor point and releasing cleaner and consistant. Shot my personel best last night 448/27x 450vegas. The reason I missed 2 points is my mind got in the way. I started to think instead of just shoot. The mental part of the game is huge. Its all in the attitude, bad attitude you can guess what happens. Also when I stand on the line I tell myself to shoot the X and seriously mean what I say. Don't say to yourself I hope i get a X or a 10. That leaves room for doubt, very bad. My mental aspect is kinda agressive/focused not physical. I shoot with guys who regularly shoot these top scores. I know its all about their attitude when they shoot. Some times its not your day and just move on to the next arrow because that arrow is gone.


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## mikep43019 (Dec 2, 2007)

Its all about your form and ability to execute the shot. In December I shot my first Vegas round since July. The only practice I had in that time was a few arrows here and there during hunting season. At the shoot that night with my hunting bow converted over to shoot spots the night before I shot a 300 with 23x. This was with a hoyt 38 ultra with a pin. This was also with a wrist strap release


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## wyoming4x4 (Mar 16, 2009)

*Nice shooting but not many can do what you do.*



mikep43019 said:


> Its all about your form and ability to execute the shot. In December I shot my first Vegas round since July. The only practice I had in that time was a few arrows here and there during hunting season. At the shoot that night with my hunting bow converted over to shoot spots the night before I shot a 300 with 23x. This was with a hoyt 38 ultra with a pin. This was also with a wrist strap release


 Bowhunter class is a tough class around here. don't shoot the 5 spot much. Prefer vegas because of challenge of smaller x. We have a guy who shoots 448vegas with bowhunter class and haven't figured out how he does it but its awesome shooting. I do understand the shot execution and perform it well but always learning. You apparently have excellent form but guys just learning need to hear more than just shot execution. I deal with this at our range and have to answer these questions and have to breakdown these answers to help other shooters. I'll catch you later and nice shooting.


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## mikep43019 (Dec 2, 2007)

wyoming4x4 said:


> Bowhunter class is a tough class around here. don't shoot the 5 spot much. Prefer vegas because of challenge of smaller x. We have a guy who shoots 448vegas with bowhunter class and haven't figured out how he does it but its awesome shooting. I do understand the shot execution and perform it well but always learning. You apparently have excellent form but guys just learning need to hear more than just shot execution. I deal with this at our range and have to answer these questions and have to breakdown these answers to help other shooters. I'll catch you later and nice shooting.


Thanks....trust me my friends are always pushing me to compete. I have been to Vegas a few times. Unfortunately this year I did not have the funds to go. What really sucks is i have shot more perfect rounds this year than I ever have in my life. My friends say I have a gift...problem is I get bored easy with archery and i dont stick with it. I do however plan on making it back to vegas next year. Not sure I can hang with the big boys in unlimited but maybe in BHFS championship class


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## wyoming4x4 (Mar 16, 2009)

*Running out of time for vegas?*



mikep43019 said:


> Thanks....trust me my friends are always pushing me to compete. I have been to Vegas a few times. Unfortunately this year I did not have the funds to go. What really sucks is i have shot more perfect rounds this year than I ever have in my life. My friends say I have a gift...problem is I get bored easy with archery and i dont stick with it. I do however plan on making it back to vegas next year. Not sure I can hang with the big boys in unlimited but maybe in BHFS championship class


 Well like before nice shooting. My big hurtle is I wasn't taught properly in the beginning. Always shot fingers bowhunter/recurve with not proper education. In 2008 I seen a guy shooting a freestyle setup. I wanted to do it. Now I'm on this new journey in archery. Its going well and learning how to shoot at this level. Got aways to go but persistance will prevail. Never shot a release until 2008 and one big hurtle was I wasn't shooting a thumb release properly/puncher! I have been correcting this habit and its a never ending learning curve. Now shooting a evolution to correct punching habit that pops up and justs ruins a good shoot. One thing for sure their are product out their to help compared to the old days. I'm new to this level of shooting but if I can help someone with my experiences I will.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Everyone is a little different in how much they practice.....some practice way more then the avg person...some practice about the same as most do....some practice WAY less then anyone would dream of.

For example Jesse B. Didn't touch his bow last summer after the Dakota Classic until the week before Outdoor Nationals....he shot maybe one or two rounds of FITA all year before he won the US Open after that. He said he was actually going to practice some this year. 

Dave Cousins took a right around a month off from shooting before Nationals also....I think he started shooting about 2 weeks prior to Nationals.....

Most of the Pros I know and am friends with and top shooters don't tinker as much as most think either....they will for a bit getting the bow setup initially then that's about it....when I talked to Reo at LAS I am pretty sure that the VE he won LAS with hadn't been touched since Vegas other then changing arrows if he had tried to shoot that one outside....but I am almost positive he said he hadn't touched it since last indoor and he started shooting that one the week or so before LAS because his other bow had an "issue"...user issue :wink:

Hopkins fell in love with his B-Stingers right before IBO Worlds but wouldn't change them out until after because most like most top shooters...when a bow is setup and working well with you they don't want to change anything.


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## DariusXV (Feb 18, 2009)

Gentlemen (and Ladies),

Thank you for your views! This isn't an invitation to stop...it's an encouragement to let you know your views are well-received.

Again...I love the flashy new toys. Who doesn't? And at some point the new toys really are better toys. It can just be tough knowing exactly when they become so.

As a professional musician of some 20+ years, I have a firm belief that practice is the one thing that separates the "men" from the "boys", so to speak. Obviously, quality of practice matters...but at some point in the developmental cycle, I don't think it hurts to fling a few arrows just for fun. Sometimes it's just nice to enjoy watching something fly downrange. 

Sometimes.

I've met a lot of people who like to say that they don't practice. There are lots of ways to practice. Have you ever been sleepless because of all the things you want to do when the sun comes up? Is that not a form of practice and improvement?

There are a lot of ways to tackle problems, especially in a sport that encourages individual achievement. I'm just suspicious of those who say they don't practice at their craft. I know this isn't true in the music world. I have a deep-rooted belief that this also applies to the archery world.

After all, practice is the one thing that can never be purchased. You either do it or not. Most other things can be bought. 

Again, thank you to those who have contributed to this thread. It means a lot and I've appreciated reading all of it.


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## hjort jagare (Nov 19, 2008)

Was lucky enough to sit in on a seminar at the Vegas show with Jessie Broadwater , Dave Cousens and Reo Wild.:shade: One of the questions was on the amount of practice they did. Dave said with the amount of travel they do its hard to practice enough. Reo said he shot four to six complete games every day keeping score. Said he figured if he didn't some one else would. :darkbeer:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I know a pro that puts his bow away the end of March and picks it up mid-october or early November. That particular pro, however, is hitting rock bottom as a result of this practice, or lack thereof.

You cannot lay off completely for that long in today's professional division, and expect to be competitive against the best in the world...that are shooting indoor and outdoor competitions world-wide all year long!

Some shooters can get by with a once or twice a week regimen. Others need much more than that. But taking MONTHS off without shooting and then thinking you can get into 'form' against people that will have 4 or 5 tournaments under their belts while you have one or two small shoots, if any....is ludicrous. Won't happen in today's pro championship divisions no matter who you are or how good you think you are.

For me, I've never had enough TALENT to be able to lay off shooting for more than 10 or 15 days, and even then, the first few rounds "coming back" are UGLY with a capital "U"!! It will take me 5 or 6 practice sessions to fall back into form. When I was shooting my best several years back, I would shoot 6 or even 7 days a week, at least two full rounds a day, and on weekends, if there wasn't a tournament; I'd practice 56, 84, and sometimes even 112 field and/or hunter targets in ONE day. I won the tournaments I did not from TALENT...but from conditioning and endurance. My competitors were getting tired at the 15 to 20 target point while I was just getting really warmed up. They'd huff and puff up the hills and struggle while I was conditioned and didn't have problems of that nature.

It isn't ALL about shooting lots of arrows....conditioning and endurance comes into play way more than you think. Being aerobically fit helps a TON.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

wyoming4x4 said:


> Forgot to mention about great attitude and working on some aspect of your shooting. It seems that once I get something going great like my bow grip and then something else will give me problems. Its a never ending cycle. Always working something that I feel is lacking in my shooting. This month is my anchor point and releasing cleaner and consistant. Shot my personel best last night 448/27x 450vegas. The reason I missed 2 points is my mind got in the way. I started to think instead of just shoot. The mental part of the game is huge. Its all in the attitude, bad attitude you can guess what happens. Also when I stand on the line I tell myself to shoot the X and seriously mean what I say. Don't say to yourself I hope i get a X or a 10. That leaves room for doubt, very bad. My mental aspect is kinda agressive/focused not physical. I shoot with guys who regularly shoot these top scores. I know its all about their attitude when they shoot. Some times its not your day and just move on to the next arrow because that arrow is gone.


I personaly feel this is the difference between the guys and gals on the top o f their game and the rest of us. So much is mental, and keeping your head in the game. When a shooter is getting near that 298 mid 40's X count, its pretty obvious they can shoot...but the mental side is the next step to get 60 arrows with full concentration behind them.


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## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

well I guess the B stinger was not a contribitor to winning Vegas! or a back tension release. I guess it was very good form, and follow through! and Mental.


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