# History question



## Shoot-in-NC (Jul 12, 2004)

I was wondering if any one knew when the first compound bow was realy used. I have an answer that will shock you. If any one gets this answer they should be on who wants to be a millionare.

Stephen


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## Matt6288 (Jul 29, 2005)

im guessing it was really etting used in the 70's, now whats the real anwer?


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## daver (Sep 3, 2005)

Maybe the romans?


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## Matt6288 (Jul 29, 2005)

bowlista?


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## Shoot-in-NC (Jul 12, 2004)

*Close about the Romans*

They were the Hyksos from Asia, They invaded Egypt in the 2000s B.C. They introduced compound bows, chariotes and many other usefull tools. I learned this last week in World History :mg: , I dont know how much i believe it though. What do yall think 

Stephen


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## andy_smaga (Sep 27, 2003)

I think that they don't mean bows with wheels or cams, but use the word "compound" in that definition: composed of two or more parts, elements, or ingredients.


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## toxoph (Mar 24, 2005)

I think the word is composite. Typical of the Mongol and Turkish bows.

The compound bow was first invented in the 30s I believe but never capitolized upon.

So many of our archery ideas are recycled and improved upon.


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## Shoot-in-NC (Jul 12, 2004)

*Not what it said*

My book said compound, i know how to read, and my teacher started talkin about how much more accurate a bow with cables and a string was and how it helped them so much. So i just kept my mouth shut knowing he was wrong cause theres no one in my class that even knows what a bow looks like. So i left dat alone.

Stephen


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## Phil (Mar 18, 2003)

I think composite is the term your looking for.....


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## Shoot-in-NC (Jul 12, 2004)

I'm tellin u that thats what my book said.............not that i believe it but still i know what it said and its the same thang my teacher said.

Stephen


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## Matt6288 (Jul 29, 2005)

i found out in my history class that arrows cant pierce through silk! so it can be used for arrow protection, it will still go in but its easier and much less painful to remove if ur wearing silk.


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## Shoot-in-NC (Jul 12, 2004)

Matt6288 said:


> i found out in my history class that arrows cant pierce through silk! so it can be used for arrow protection, it will still go in but its easier and much less painful to remove if ur wearing silk.


And thas is your tip of the week, do they sell that in hunter orange  lol

Stephen


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## Mexican 3D (Nov 16, 2003)

i "learned" in my physics class that "a bow pulled just by human force can not shoot an arrow at 100 meters per second"  100 meters per second is about 300 fps. fortunately i have also learned not to trust everything teachers tell me...


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## karday (Aug 20, 2002)

*first compound*

I do not have a specific reference for it but, I was told that a scientist at Naval Research Lab in the years right after WW II (~1946) Actualled designed an built a prototype compound bow with cables and eccentrics. Several people told him it was so ugly that no one would ever buy it. I guess Allen proved them wrong?


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## eric96 (Dec 13, 2004)

Allen bow company was the first company in recorded history to capitalize on the coumdpound bow the year was circa 1969.


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## Archery Power (Feb 4, 2005)

At the NFAA national at arrora Il. the year 1970 a guy showed up with a jennings Compound and showed all of us recurve shooters just how a bow was shot. His name was Frank Ketchum and he won the NFAA nationas
However Allen had their bow a few years before. but it was in 1970 before the compound bow made a impact on the archers across the USA.I have a old archery magazine that showed avertizement on the allen bow around 1966.


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## edthearcher (Nov 2, 2002)

*compound bow*

w.d. allen pattened the first compound bow in the 30s and set on his patten for years, in the 60s carrol archery out of utah started making them than along came tom jennings sold like hot cakes so bear jumped on the wagon. allen smiled all the way to court started collecting fees court order. a lot of companys went under includeing jennings bear archery bought out jennings and kept the name.


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## dbracer (May 20, 2005)

*When was the first cmpd bow produced?*

You have to define the meaning of compound. Or, as Bill Clinton said, "Tell me what the meaning of 'is' is." 

If you review old archery literature, you'll find that writers like Robert P. Elmer, a doctor (MD), wrote a pretty good treatise on archery in 1926. He called it Archery. It’s a collectors item. He said the compound and composite were synonymous. So, under that definition the cmpd bow was first introduce somewhere around 700 BC. You can review Longbow by Robert Hardy, Chinese Archery by Shelby, and/or Arrows Against Steel by Hurley. 

Of course, down thru the years I'm sure there were various attempts at making mechanically launched arrows, or missiles, if you will. They were referred to in medieval literature as arbaleste (French), blista (Latin), arcubalista, or manubalista... after all that’s what crossbows are. Crossbows are compound mechanisms to launch missile warfare. Slow to operate, but as efficient as hell in kinetic energy and penetration. 

But, in another book called Archery From Golds to Big Game, Keith C. Schuyler tells us that H. W. Allen of Kansas City, MO, designed and produced that block-n-tackle mechanism used by today’s wanabe archers which, as mentioned above, is simply an upright crossbow. This idea was originally the 1938 brain child of one Dr. Claude J. Lapp of Washington, D.C., a physicist, who did extensive research on bow efficiency at the Univ. of Iowa — according to Fred Bear’s World of Archery book of 1979. Fred does not state the exact year that Tom Jennings, a national archery champion and columnist, contracted the design in Hollyweird, I mean Hollywood. It would have been somewhere ‘round 1964... maybe as late as 1969.

I know. I know. There is such a thing as "beating a subject to death." I just did it. It's about reading what's available. I love archery from beginning to end. 

See on the range.

dbracer.


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## andy_smaga (Sep 27, 2003)

*dbracer*

Very interesting, there is never too much knowledge. :thumbs_up 
I will just say that there is a fundamental difference between a compound bow and a crossbow and that is that the archer is holding some weight when at full draw, and there is no holding weight when shooting a crossbow.


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## karday (Aug 20, 2002)

dbracer: Nice post. If reading is fundamental then research has got to be it ultimate reward. The mecahnical advantage of cams should be the distinction in compounds. Even X-bows come in compound and non-compound variants. If it requires the full effort of the archers individual power to activate the energy in the limbs then I can't see the multiplicity inferred in the word "compound ". I am primarily a compound shooter but have recurves and shoot them. No doubt in my mind that traditional barebow archers are the truest of archers, from an accuracy viewpoint which is where I personally measure archery prowess. If you are purely a recreational shooter then the mere enjoyment of launching arrows is its' own reward. As a hunter there is nothing quite like the sensation of harvesting game with a bow. Possible some primitive instinct in man as a predatory creature by nature. If anyone thnks we have some major advantage over game with a compound or any other bow, has never tried it. Oddly enough their is some evidence that Paleo man was driven to seek a beter hunting tool over chasing down game with a spear. Once man started to harvest larger game which provided some surplus meat, then he evolved into a settler vs being Nomadic. Marcy Creek pottery was one of the early indications that he was staying put and bringing game to a settlement. Smoking game as a way of preserving it also became necessary. Fun stuff!


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## dbracer (May 20, 2005)

*Fun*

Dear Andy & karday, 

Good posts guys. Sorry that I sounded a little anti-cmpd. Most if not all my bowhunting butties are cmpdrs. I've harvested game with 'em myself, only I won't tell you I've taken hundreds.(Your success in the open West tends to be less with a bent stick.) Anyway, I don't hate cmpds or cmpdrs. In fact they've made the price of good old recurves fantastic. 

I also agree, karday, that taking an animal by any toxopholite ain't no walk in the park. But, I wonder if the increased ease of taking with say the high tech cmpd and or say the high tech black pwdr rifles will eventually cost us with the fish and game departments in these more "primitive" sports. 

What do ya think?

dbracer


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## karday (Aug 20, 2002)

dbracer: Well I expect in the primo trophy regions of the US it may be true. However, where I live the deer (whitetail) have actually become pests of sorts. In some counties the take on does is unlimited and the DNR has added X-bow, Black powder, Sunday longer gun season and such to better manage the heard. The irony is that the land for available hunting is dwindling because of development or because people are refusing to let people hunt their land. Often they lease it to clubs and then post the land or they have had bad experiences with hunters and don't want the problems or liability. Unfortunately the effort to get Bucks to wear condums hasn't been too successful and we are seeing huge numbers of twin births. They have introduced coyotoes back inthe area but I do not know how many deer they eat since dogs and cats are probably easier prey.


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## dbracer (May 20, 2005)

*Hunt'n*

Karday,

I've never lived in an area where I could take multiple big game. 

So can out-of-staters hunt mutiples in your state? I sure think such would be fun. Maybe I'll slip on into your state one of these days. 

We're heavily scrutinized here. We can take only 3 points or more in a buck and only a spike elk. With a rifle, that's it. With a bow, we have the same restrictions, except we can also take a doe -- but only one. 

I guess the point I was getting-at earlier is: Will we, more primitive hunters, eventually have to pay the piper as we increase the ease of use of these simpler weapons? The increase knowledge and effort required is the reason bowhunters have more priviledges than blk pwdr hunters, and the reason blk pwdr has more priviledges than modern fire arms.

Hey karday, I like your quote from Earp. I was raised just north of Dodge City and read much about him...and of course Billy the Kid, Billy Anderson, Clay Allison etc. Geees the things in which guys like us get interested!

Oh and tell me about Marcy Creek Pottery??????

dbracer


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## jkm97 (Jul 8, 2004)

In response to the original question--your book certainly should have said composite rather than compound. The Hyksos, or "Shepard Kings" as the Egyptians called them, originally introduced the composite bow into Egypt during their brief 100 year reign. The composite bow was already common in Asia at this time, but this was the first exposure the Egyptians had to the superior bows.


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## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

They are still ugly. Whereas, the bent longbow is the loveliest work of the hand of man.


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## Matt6288 (Jul 29, 2005)

Same here, don't really like the looks of compound bows and also recurves if they got those big bulky looking risers.


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