# Brainstorming - DIY carbon or fiberglass flexible cable guards



## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Hey everyone!
Well, the off season is upon us and it's time to buy new gear, upgrade, or do general maintenance.

This year I plan on doing a few upgrades to my 2015 Bear Attitude bow. MBG Rush sight, no-peep, limb dampeners, and a new custom string are already in the works.

But alas, I am a tinkerer and I am always looking for ways to improve on something where I see a flaw.

The Flaw: Everyone knows that a slider cable guard system puts torque on the limbs and grip causing lateral movement. Now this is not a huge deal on the attitude, but it is still noticeable (especially with the new no-peep).

Background info: Bear uses a semi flexible (quite stiff) fiberglass rod as their cable guard. This allows for a tiny bit of lateral movement during the drawing cycle to help reduce grip and limb torque and improve accuracy.

Solution: I have been looking at a lot of these new flex guard systems, as well as curved guard systems on some target bows, and aftermarket bent angle solutions. The idea of course is to further reduce torque by allowing the guard to move with the cable as you go through the draw cycle.

My Idea: Use a more flexible material for the cable guard system. IE, carbon fiber tube or a more flexible fiberglass rod. If the rod flexes more it will help reduce the limb torque and grip torque and push more accuracy out of the bow.

Thoughts: Does a more flexible cable guard lead to a snap-back effect after arrows release? Meaning, does the rod rebound after release at a rate that counteracts the loss of torque and pushes back against the arrow during release. Also, would this snap back effect if present be noticeable in the grip as a lateral torque after release?

ADVICE: So I am looking for input from people who own these newer bows with the flexible guard system. Or people who are using target bows with the curved bar system. Additionally, will this decreased torque effect my arrow in terms of needed spine etc. (presumably not because spine compensates for the force applied to the arrow from the lb of the bow?)

Now I realize that bow manufacturers probably have already tried and tested this. But I have noticed through my search for materials that the fiberglass they are using is cheaper than the fiber glass I am talking about. Therefore, are they not using this idea because of mass production costs? Or because it doesn't work properly?


SIDE NOTE: if the flexible method does not work I'm going to look into curving my cable guard to allow the slide to slide in towards the center of the bow during the draw cycle. Like this






Credit to Darton for the idea.

P.S. I am not looking to sell this idea or anything so I'm not trying to put Darton out of business etc. Just trying to make my personal bow better and maybe help others do the same.


Thanks everyone!

-Chris


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## tialloydragon (Mar 14, 2013)

I made my own bent cable rod out of 3/8" aluminum from Sears Hardware (cut to length, rounded at the end, and polished with Mothers Mag and Wheel Polish.) 

Works great on my Athens Accomplice (2-track cam) to reduce torque and pull the centershot in towards the riser over the shelf.

Just make sure you start the bend closer to the riser than the cable slide sits at brace. Otherwise it will bind when it slides over the bend.


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Awesome thanks for the reply!

Do you mean start it sooner and make it a more gradual bend? I plan on using the same Hyper Glide you have for my bend or even non bent. I'm going to pick up some material tomorrow to test the fiberglass and carbon fiber theories. If that doesn't work I'll go to the bend. Although the bend may be better in any case because of the snap back I'm worried about? I wish somebody with the new flex guards would chime in here!


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Also, 

By rod do you mean like a hallow tube, or a solid piece of aluminum?


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## Superbike1 (Nov 19, 2005)

I saw somewhere, where a guy took a solid carbon bowtech guide rod and shaved it down lengthwise till it was half the diameter. He only did this on the portion he wanted to flex. After doing it, he showed at full draw and it was bent to the side just like a pse flex guard. It looked lie it would work and I am sure someone else has seen this also. I can't find any pictures but I am sure some of these interweb savvy typers could.


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Superbike1, thanks for the info! I'll do some interweb searching and see what I can find.


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## bilongo (Nov 18, 2008)

For your info....
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1894278&highlight=flex+rod+carbon


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

View attachment 3171690
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Here is what I did.


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Nice pics Outsider! Thanks! How do you like it? Is there any of the snap back type recoil I was worried about?


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Bilongo, I didn't see that post during my searching, nice find! I am caught right now between ordering a CF rod to trim down, or buying an aluminum rod and putting a slight bend in it. The aluminum rod + small pipe bender with angle finder will cost me about $20 all said and done, and I can buy it locally. 3/8 Carbon fiber solid rod I haven't been able to source locally (within 50 miles) so I'm on the fence. I figure the fiber will be about $20 as well total cost. I seem to be seeing it at like $2.14 per foot?


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

CONUS_Reaper said:


> Nice pics Outsider! Thanks! How do you like it? Is there any of the snap back type recoil I was worried about?


No snap back on mine. I have shot a tournament with it and got second place. So I think it did good


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Outsider, that is awesome info I really appreciate it!


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## Mordekyle (Aug 8, 2011)

Delrin is very flexible, so it doesn't work on higher poundage bows. You can get black or white 3/8 rod on eBay.

Plexiglass looks cool and is a bit stiffer, yet still flexible. (Pictured) It can be bent with a heatgun.

Delrin, plexiglass, and aluminum are all dirt cheap on eBay or at the hardware store. You can experiment with several prototypes without breaking the bank. More expensive are the stupid sliders.


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## bilongo (Nov 18, 2008)

There you go....
https://dragonplate.com/ecart/product.asp?pID=4515&cID=18


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## AzizaVFR (Jan 28, 2014)

What you are describing is what Win&Win uses on their Dragonfly series of bows. It is a solid 3/8" carbon rod with a scalloped section allowing a measured amount of bend to the rod at full draw. It does exactly as designed and is transparent to the shooter.



If you plan on making one yourself from carbon fiber rod, make sure you have not sharp corners for stress relief. It will keep it from stress fracturing at the junction.


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Thanks for the info everyone! Just posted an order online for a carbon fiber rod. I weighed all the options in terms of material cost, ease of access, and fabrication costs. Decided that the carbon was the best for me. With metals I would also have to get a bender for the proper angle. Only $12 but still an added cost to the project. 12" of carbon was only $8 which will be plenty for my firs test fabrication.

Now I just need to decide which method I will use to trim the flex portion into the carbon.


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## AzizaVFR (Jan 28, 2014)

Use a very fine belt sander, full respirator, full seal goggles, and a shop-vac, set to collect the dust just below the platten. You do not want to breath the dust from the resin/fibers. Work in broad arcs, working slowly. Also if you have access to a force gauge, you can see how much energy it take to deflect the rod as the load increases.


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

AzizaVFR, thanks for the info! I have most of that gear laying around to be used, except for the belt sander. Think I going to use a rotating sanding bit on my drill press for a similar effect. I'd like a cylindrical grind into the carbon so that should work perfectly. In terms of finishing work should I just hit it with high grit automotive sand paper? Like a 4-800? I'm not overly concerned as I'll be shrink wrapping any section I trim if I decide to go the way Outsider did. I like the look of the Dragonfly one but thats a lot of custom fab work to get to the same end point.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

CONUS_Reaper said:


> The Flaw: Everyone knows that a slider cable guard system puts torque on the limbs and grip causing lateral movement. Now this is not a huge deal on the attitude, but it is still noticeable (especially with the new no-peep).


I don't think I would agree with this, you could be right I would need to run some tests but I'm thinkin this is erroneous.

I expect having less torgue on the cams might make it a bit easier to tune changing the angle of the cams through the power stroke may actually affect the string path too and that would make tuning more difficult. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that the flexible cable guard is just another gadget to help the retailers create a sense of product superiority where none actually exists. IE a marketing gimmick. This is all the more reason to DIY it though it's an inexpensive way to ID the validity of the claim.


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Bender,

When you are going through the draw cycle the cable guard gets lateral force applied against it. So my line of thinking is that that lateral force must result in a torquing factor. If not, where would that lateral force be transferred to?


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Bender,

Found the thread http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1364232


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I'm actually encouraging you to build one you might as well see if it makes a big difference for you. Honestly I don't think it is actually a measurable force though on the grip. I'm pretty sure the force applied to the center of the riser is offset by the force at the base of the limb (limb bolts and pivot). To test that I would want to put the bow on a draw board with a pivot point on the handle draw the bow with and without the cables on the cable guard and see if the point of aim of the bow is different. It might be, but I think it is more likely to be from the riser actually flexing\twisting a little from the torque not actual twisting of the grip in your hand. That may be what you were saying and I just misunderstood.


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Bender, I agree. The exact methodology for the torque I don't fully understand. But I believe in principle it's worth investing a little time and cash into seeing if it helps.

UPDATE: I have on order stock solid carbon fiber 3/8 rods to try my own DIY grinding etc. Also, I contacted win & win archery and their flex cable guard can be purchased by anyone through any dealer that has access to the win & win accessories catalog just FYI. I am not sure what the cost of it is (yet). But will update again when/if I find out. I will also update with pictures and results from the custom fabricated cable guard.


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

Consider this guys, if that torque we are trying to avoid in our own ways was a non issue Companies like Martin, Barnsdale and OK would not produce bows with shoot through cable/cam systems.

I have shot both and I can tell you that when all the marbles are on the line I want as much forgiveness as possible. If that means a flexi cable bar or shoot through cams I do not know but forgiveness is king in archery. I also believe it is a bigger deal on the shot than on the draw cycle, that is when I could really feel the difference.


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## CONUS_Reaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Ohwell,

Perfectly stated. Any advantage I can get, I want.


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