# battle of the Carbon bows Stealth vs RX1



## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

I would really like to see a shoot down with the Stealth FE vs RX1 Turbo and the RX1 32 vs Stealth SE or ECS
as the have the same IBO numbers , would like to know what one is really faster, thoughts on shot and feel, how 
they hold on target,valley and draw cycle..I am sure they all are great bows and it comes down to personal preferences , but I would like to know what they are and why you prefer them ....they are the price of almost two
bows so would like to be informed before I spend that kind of dough....Thanks


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

Speed don't matter, but the Hoyt will win, and as far as draw cycle its the Hoyt all day ever day.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

I like your enthusiasm figured they Hoyt guys would say speed don't matter ...it does when you have a 27"DL other wise
I might agree with ya...I have to say I like the looks of all of them, just so curious


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Speed don't matter, but the Hoyt will win, and as far as draw cycle its the Hoyt all day ever day.


You couldn't be more wrong....PSE has and will crush any Hoyt carbon.
Basically....Hoyt carbons are obsolete.


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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

I've shot them both and the pse has the smoother draw and the better draw cycle to speed ratio.

It's also made in America and therefore isn't communist. 

And it looks better.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

GuntherChaconne said:


> I've shot them both and the pse has the smoother draw and the better draw cycle to speed ratio.
> 
> It's also made in America and therefore isn't communist.
> 
> And it looks better.



And PSE carbons are light weight.....half the dang reason to buy one!


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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

spike camp said:


> And PSE carbons are light weight.....half the dang reason to buy one!


Good point


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Speed don't matter, but the Hoyt will win, and as far as draw cycle its the Hoyt all day ever day.


I'm glad there's guys like you on here. I love the Ford guy Chevy guy stuff. Keeps me smiling. 

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## G-unit (Apr 11, 2013)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Speed don't matter, but the Hoyt will win, and as far as draw cycle its the Hoyt all day ever day.


Can't imagine the Hoyt draw cycle is even in the same league as the evolve cam and I have no dog in this fight, I shoot bowtech


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

G-unit said:


> Can't imagine the Hoyt draw cycle is even in the same league as the evolve cam and I have no dog in this fight, I shoot bowtech



It's all in his imagination.


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

I have not shot the new Hoyt’s.
I have shot the new carbon stealth and it is buttery smooth, easy transition into the valley and very very little vibe on the shot. A nice improvement over the 2016/2017 carbon air. And it still weighs 3.2 lbs. 

I’m interested in the Hoyt’s too, but at 3.9 lbs it’s hard to pay $1600, when my bare bow xpedtions are 3.9 lbs and they shoot lights out with amazing speed... 


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## G-unit (Apr 11, 2013)

spike camp said:


> It's all in his imagination.


Any thread ever written.. ever.. same thing from that guy


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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

I can see that this thread is going to hurt some butts...


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

G-unit said:


> Any thread ever written.. ever.. same thing from that guy


Elkman has to justify that pink Hoyt tramp stamp he got a few years back....at all costs!


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## HoosierArcher88 (Jan 10, 2013)

PSE ECS cam is smoother than any recent Hoyt I've ever shot. Plus, even without shooting the new Hoyts, I would almost guarantee the PSE will win out on valley too (at 90% obviously). PSE gets my vote for all categories.


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## rojapar (Sep 11, 2007)

Hoyt bows have been worse every year since the 2014 Carbon Spyder.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

rojapar said:


> Hoyt bows have been worse every year since the 2014 Carbon Spyder.


100% agree....bring back the RKT!!!


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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

Youch! 

Better go buy a big tube of butt cream... 

for the butt hurtedness.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Speed don't matter, but the Hoyt will win, and as far as draw cycle its the Hoyt all day ever day.


I am and always will be a Hoyt fan. But a person has to give credit where credit is due...

Comparing last years Carbon to Carbon bows . Hoyt don’t even come close to the ECS draw cycle and ease of tuning with a much wider ranges of adjustability 

I haven’t shot the new Hoyts yet but I have on good advisement from a guy who knows his ways around bows and showed on video shooting the 2018s side by side ... This year will be no different 

Not sure why people are so stuck in the mud about their favorite products and can’t be truthful about other brands and give credit where credit is due 

Some of the folks on this thread are/were die hard hoyt Carbon fanatics and made the switch for legitimate reasons

Humility and an open mindedness are key when spending 2K of your hard earned money on products that depreciate by 30% the minute you walk out the door


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

GuntherChaconne said:


> Youch!
> 
> Better go buy a big tube of butt cream...
> 
> for the butt hurtedness.


Years ago, I was in the market for an entry level package bow for hunting and I went into the closest bow shop. They had Bowtech, Hoyt, Martin, and PSE. I shot every sub-$500 bow in the place. I was asking one of the Fudd's in there what he thought was the best beginner package and he held up the Hoyt package bow and explained to me that it was basically like a Mercedes versus the Bowtech Tomkat (which I believe he said was a Ford Taurus). I liked the Tomkat best and bought it. 

I've found a lot of Hoyt guys and Matthews guys like that since then. No matter what, that's their brand. Anything goes as long it's a Hoyt or a Matthews. I have not found that to be true with other brands. Sure there's Bowtech guys and PSE guys and Elite guys but I have yet to find one that has the attitude that anything "from their brand" is better than everything else. 



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## edthearcher (Nov 2, 2002)

spike camp said:


> You couldn't be more wrong....PSE has and will crush any Hoyt carbon.
> Basically....Hoyt carbons are obsolete.


wow you gotta love some postsukey:


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## Jeremy K (Oct 16, 2013)

Since this thread is sure to peak some interest from the carbon fans , have any of the mfg. released their top "top secret" method for building a carbon riser?


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## rok1167 (Sep 20, 2007)

Ingo said:


> GuntherChaconne said:
> 
> 
> > Youch!
> ...


From my perspective, PSE guys are the worst for knocking others and fanboy. Spend some time, check it out, they love their fugly bows.


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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

Interested to shoot this years Carbon bows. Was not a fan of last years PSE Carbon. One I shot had more kick and noise than I have felt in a bow for long time. Draw was very nice as typical with their new cams system but couldn't get over the fact it felt terrible at the shot.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

rok1167 said:


> From my perspective, PSE guys are the worst for knocking others and fanboy. Spend some time, check it out, they love their fugly bows.


Just point me to PSEs version of Elkman or AZscorpion....

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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

I haven’t shot the new PSE stealth, but to me none of the carbon airs (ECS cam or not) were worth a damn. But neither were the carbon defiants... they both sucked. I think this year’s carbon offerings are bad to the bone, I’ll shoot them side by side but I’m certain I’ll buy the hoyt because I think it looks better and I know it will have less vibes/shock because of the weight.


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

Ok now besides the fan boys, has anyone with a realistic mindset like mine that doesn't care what name is on the bow shot both? My pro shop has the hoyt but the stealth has not arrived yet so I'm waiting so I can shoot both, do a review and buy the one I like better. As far as specs go, pse looks better on paper. As far as cosmetics go, the hoyt looks much better. The pse is a so called real carbon and is 1 piece so it should be stronger and also has an amazing 90% letoff.. I hate the color and camo options and the grip looks uncomfortable and blocky.. I can not wait any longer!!!! I need to shoot these bows darn it.. if we could combine the 2 , it would literally be the perfect hunting bow.. 

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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

brokenlittleman said:


> Interested to shoot this years Carbon bows. Was not a fan of last years PSE Carbon. One I shot had more kick and noise than I have felt in a bow for long time. Draw was very nice as typical with their new cams system but couldn't get over the fact it felt terrible at the shot.



Not saying you didn’t feel vibration but on that bow , I could be wrong but I’m willing to bet that something was out of sync . Module being one letter off from the other or lettoff stops not being in the same position 

As with any manufacturer if a bow is not tuned correctly there will be some sort of vibe...

I have had every manufacturers 2017 bow in my shop and haven’t had one that had vibration that I have been seeing and reading on this site ...

I don’t get some of these shops , if it were me I would make sure every bow is nutted before I handed it to the customer, because every bow I put in their hands, no matter the brand , I want it sold 

Just slapping a rest on and using any old arrow, wrong draw length etc just don’t make sense to me in regards to bow sales


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

rok1167 said:


> From my perspective, PSE guys are the worst for knocking others and fanboy. Spend some time, check it out, they love their fugly bows.


That is a joke, like others have said, Mathews and Hoyt have the most brainwashed fan boys... also acting like elitist Hillary Clinton, lmao... I don't care what brand it is, just want the best bow for the year.. in this case their is only 2 carbon bows on top.. I used to only want a pse but opened my eyes and I have owned almost every brand now.. I have not seen much improvements from hoyt these last few years since the carbon spider but this year looks much better. Love the halon series from Mathews as well but like them more for 3d due to the weight. I've never had a carbon bow and it's a huuuge investment so I want one new with a warranty and the best one possible.. pse stealth vs hoyt rx1.. it is on

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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

edthearcher said:


> wow you gotta love some postsukey:


Get yer butt cream, Ed....it's the truth!


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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

ex-wolverine said:


> Not saying you didn’t feel vibration but on that bow , I will pretty much guarantee that something was out of sync . Module being one letter off from the other or lettoff stops not being in the same position
> 
> As with any manufacturer if a bow is not tuned correctly there will be some sort of vibe...
> 
> ...


I did not shoot this bow at a shop, I shot it at the ATA. No doubt it could have been made to feel better but that bow had so much kick at the shot I was floored. Granted I have seen how the bows are set up at the ATA show and some of them are no better than a shop setting them up but I go into it knowing this. I evaluated all the bows knowing this and that bow was the worst of the bunch. I am guessing a lot of it was due to the weight and construction of the bow.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

Ingo said:


> Just point me to PSEs version of Elkman or AZscorpion....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


It has nothing to do with brand of bow. Simply the personality of the poster. It's not a "bow thing." 

These types are the same on any subject. 

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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

mez said:


> It has nothing to do with brand of bow. Simply the personality of the poster. It's not a "bow thing."
> 
> These types are the same on any subject.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


All I was saying is I've only personally experienced that kind of brand loyalty with Hoyt and Matthews guys. There's also one Prime apologist on here that falls into that category. 



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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

Get ready for the tautological arguments. 

#0%!$ will be better because they are made by #0%!


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

I was going to post this same question this morning, thanks OP.
Of course I will try them both at some point.
I owned a CA34 last year, it was the definition of a smooth, easy shooting bow. I ultimately sold it because I was having trouble being consistent with it at longer ranges, I attributed it to the light weight.
I think the new PSE Carbon is a far sight nicer looking then the old and I look forward to trying them out.


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Very few people are properly unbiased. Everyone has their own taste and that’s why all of these companies stay in business. In the last 5 years I’ve had a hoyt, a PSE, a bowtech, a mathews, a bear, a prime, and some elites... I loved all of them. Because they all shoot arrows which is what WE ALL love to do. Bows are totally personal preference. Just like cars, boats, houses, whatever. You treat them right, they all work. I just love bows.


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## adamantine (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm a Hoyt owner and I think the PSE is definitely the winner, but looking forward to shooting both.

The carbon stealth is almost a pound lighter than the RX-1 35 (3/4 lb lighter than 32), 12-20 fps faster, more adjustable, better monocoque design, full titanium hardware, and $150 less. They hit the nail on the head for guys that backpack and carry their bow all day... if it's too light, I'll just add stabilizer weight. 

Was pretty disappointed when the new Hoyts came out... they seem to be a marketing dominant company. From an engineering standpoint (used to work closely with bike industry, lots of carbon there) PSE's monocoque riser design is going to be stronger, more rigid, and lighter than that hollow tube layup that hoyt is using. Seems like they're just milking that tech for years (understandable, it costs a lot of money [multiple 100k] to build new molds of mandrels, so they'll stick with their tube type layup). 

Also, I'm still pretty pissed from my CD34 with a #2 cam... it was definitely messed up (had to advance lower cam a whole 0.5" and still get weird nock travel) and hoyt's attitude was "it's ok, shut up". Horrible support when you pay $1100 for the "best" bows out there. Don't get me wrong, if they made a better bow than PSE, I'd still be looking, but it looks like a one horse race for backcountry use this year. Just wish PSE had some better camo options.

Also BTW, first post--longtime lurker who finally wanted to put in his two cents!


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## blakeman (Dec 7, 2006)

Which has the better grip?


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## NY12020 (Feb 21, 2013)

pseshooter84 said:


> Ok now besides the fan boys, has anyone with a realistic mindset like mine that doesn't care what name is on the bow shot both?


Was wondering the same thing... Elkman have you actually shot EITHER one of bows? I have not so I can't render an opinion on the Hoyt or which one is better.
I did shoot the Stealth and I can say its VERY smooth drawing and to me it has less "recoil" than the Carbon Air. The riser def seems stiffer and I think that's why I felt less recoil. 
It also held better than the CA in my opinion and looks better with a one piece riser than either the CA or the Hoyt...but appearance is in the eye of the beholder.
The adjustability/flexibility of the ECS cams is also second to none (65-90% LO and integral draw stops)...I don't see how this could be improved upon by any manufacturer including PSE.

Good post Ex-wolverine...wish people could just talk about pro's and con's of a product and leave manufacturer out of it.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Pse Carbon riser is way stronger when Hoyt carbon riser


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

Well I owned the carbon air ECS last year and I loved the bow, but not so much the grip. I struggled with it at distance so I sold it. I next ordered a carbon defiant number 2 cam which I still currently have and I’m hunting with. I will definitely give the nod to the carbon air for the draw, but I am more accurate and overall more happy with the defiant. That said I will shoot both of the new Versions for 2018 and more than likely purchase one of the other. They’re both awesome platforms to build on and I expect bigger things this year, but last year they were both nice imo and I enjoyed them. A variety of flavors is good for all of us, and there’s no point in arguing about which is better because what I like may not work for you and vice versa, that’s why it’s nice to have so many options.


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## AR&BOW (May 24, 2009)

I am sure almost no one commenting has shot both. I like most all bows, but I have always shot Hoyts better. Would love to try the new PSE carbon, but I am not in the market so likely won't.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

MELLY-MEL said:


> Well I owned the carbon air ECS last year and I loved the bow, but not so much the grip. I struggled with it at distance so I sold it. I next ordered a carbon defiant number 2 cam which I still currently have and I’m hunting with. I will definitely give the nod to the carbon air for the draw, but I am more accurate and overall more happy with the defiant. That said I will shoot both of the new Versions for 2018 and more than likely purchase one of the other. They’re both awesome platforms to build on and I expect bigger things this year, but last year they were both nice imo and I enjoyed them. A variety of flavors is good for all of us, and there’s no point in arguing about which is better because what I like may not work for you and vice versa, that’s why it’s nice to have so many options.


Your inability to make a definitive judgement on these bows before shooting them means that you just have lost the spirit of ArcheryTalk in your heart. And how dare you hate the Carbon Air grip... Lol 

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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Good Info posted ...yes I am a PSE fan but I have never shot a bow I didn't like shooting ...I really like Bowtech Darton and other 
brands ...but my preference has been PSE bows ...just looking for honest experiences good or bad ..cant wait till more of these
bows are out in peoples hands so then there will be much more feed back


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## Hoyt slayer (Nov 30, 2011)

shot the Stealth today, felt like grip was thinner than the evolve 35 and last years carbon air, possibly the same size as the evolve but didn't measure. Definitely had less vibe and jump than last years carbon air. Aimed great with nothing on it. Haven't shot the hoyt yet but in my opinion it won't be any smoother than the evolve cam.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

Hoyt slayer said:


> shot the Stealth today, felt like grip was thinner than the evolve 35 and last years carbon air, possibly the same size as the evolve but didn't measure. Definitely had less vibe and jump than last years carbon air. Aimed great with nothing on it. Haven't shot the hoyt yet but in my opinion it won't be any smoother than the evolve cam.


The grip on the Stealth is not as wide as last year but apparently it's thicker front to back which someone on here reported they didn't care for. I have only held the Xpedite and React from PSE this year and I feel like it was an improvement from the Evolve grip. I think PSEs old thinner grips were perfect. 

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## NY12020 (Feb 21, 2013)

Ingo said:


> I think PSEs old thinner grips were perfect.


I'm with ya on that!


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## MAXXIS31 (Dec 15, 2009)

spike camp said:


> 100% agree....bring back the RKT!!!


I prefer the original Z5 cam to the RKT, my 2014 CST is a great bow IMO, haven't looked for or been interested in a new bow since i bought it. Great speed and smooth draw, I have never been a fan of any of the turbo stuff since 2014 though. My bows IBO calculated in the mid 340's and it draws great, IMO much better than any of the new Hoyts or PSE bows. I have shot them all with the exception of any of the 2018 stuff and IMO none of them compare to my current bow.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

MAXXIS31 said:


> I prefer the original Z5 cam to the RKT, my 2014 CST is a great bow IMO, haven't looked for or been interested in a new bow since i bought it. Great speed and smooth draw, I have never been a fan of any of the turbo stuff since 2014 though. My bows IBO calculated in the mid 340's and it draws great, IMO much better than any of the new Hoyts or PSE bows. I have shot them all with the exception of any of the 2018 stuff and IMO none of them compare to my current bow.


I agree the z5 was one of, if not the best hoyt cam they have made. I am interested in this new cam as I feel it has potential to improve their nock travel which has been jacked up since the z5(even then it was not great). It also sounds like the draw cycle will be closer to the z5 cam as well. I don't agree that the z5 is smoother than the evolve cam, but everything else in your comments I completely agree with. I think the new hoyts have some potential to be as good or better than the older models with the z5 cams and the alphamax's with the xtr cams before the roller guides on them.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

U can't listen to the elkman he has Hoyt toilet paper! The big reason to me to buy Carbon is mass weight (, I've owned 5 Hoyt carbon bows ) but I'm getting the pse if I go back to carbon . To me it's a no brainer ! The finish on all the Hoyt carbon bows where terrible for what u pay for them . Had one that would not tune ! For the money I'm going pse ! Waiting for the shop to get them in .


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## Jmac21 (Oct 26, 2017)

I love the evolve cam on the carbon air. I'm a hoyt guy, went to the local pro shop yesterday and shot the new 32 inch Hoyt carbon bow. And I'll tell you it was like no cam I've shot offered by hoyt in 10 years. If I could describe it I would say it's kind of pse like with a nice smooth valley and a solid back wall just my .02.


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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

Jmac21 said:


> I love the evolve cam on the carbon air. I'm a hoyt guy, went to the local pro shop yesterday and shot the new 32 inch Hoyt carbon bow. And I'll tell you it was like no cam I've shot offered by hoyt in 10 years. If I could describe it I would say it's kind of pse like with a nice smooth valley and a solid back wall just my .02.


It appears the evolve cam is the new standard example of a good drawing cam and rightly so. Good to see the evolve cams getting the respect they deserve.


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## Kris87 (Sep 12, 2003)

MELLY-MEL said:


> Well I owned the carbon air ECS last year and I loved the bow, but not so much the grip. I struggled with it at distance so I sold it. .


Mind expanding on what you did with the ECS at longer distances? I loved Hoyt grips, as I shot them forever. I transitioned the same grip I used on Hoyts straight over to my CA34 and shoot it better than I've ever shot anything. The flat back grip is very repeatable for me as I shoot straight off the thumb pad, not the lifeline. What do you do that caused you issues?


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## MRHighCountry (Oct 25, 2017)

sneak1413 said:


> I agree the z5 was one of, if not the best hoyt cam they have made. I am interested in this new cam as I feel it has potential to improve their nock travel which has been jacked up since the z5(even then it was not great). It also sounds like the draw cycle will be closer to the z5 cam as well. I don't agree that the z5 is smoother than the evolve cam, but everything else in your comments I completely agree with. I think the new hoyts have some potential to be as good or better than the older models with the z5 cams and the alphamax's with the xtr cams before the roller guides on them.


The Alphamax 35 was one of the best bows ever!!


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

MRHighCountry said:


> The Alphamax 35 was one of the best bows ever!!


I sold mine to my brother and just this summer put a new set of strings on it and tuned it up for him. That bow is one of the quietest bows to date. He said that every time he takes it to the range he gets complimented on how quiet it is. I did do a few things to it to make it much quieter than factory though. I shot 10 animals that fall with that bow at some pretty sketchy distances to boot. I still wouldn't trade either of my evolve cam bows for it but man that bow was a shooter.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

MRHighCountry said:


> The Alphamax 35 was one of the best bows ever!!


I wanted one when they came out. I thought I remember people having tuning problems with them? No?

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## AitchAr (Aug 4, 2013)

I was able to try the RX-1 and Stealth EF today. Both 70 lb limbs bottomed out and set at 31”. The only thing on each bow was a whisker biscuit. 

I don’t remember the last time I shot a bow with less than a 34” ATA and both of these bows impressed me at 31” draw length. 

Holding both out at arms length, the Stealth felt lighter and the RX-1 felt a little bit better balanced. The Stealth wanted to tip forward just a touch. 

The Stealth was smoother throughout the draw cycle. The RX-1 had a more noticeable transition into the wall, but not bad at all. For perspective, I’ve been shooting a Bowtech Boss at 31” for a while now and it has a very noticeable drop into the wall. 

The Stealth wanted to jump forward just a little a bit after the shot, which I’m guessing is due to limbs that are less past parallel than the RX-1. Both had no noticeable vibration after the shot.

My initial impression is that they are both very solid, good shooting bows. If those were my only choices and I had to chose after one brief session, I’d pick the Stealth.

Having said that, I’m looking forward to trying the RX-1 Ultra and to Bowtech’s offerings before I buy this year. 


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I agree with the weight,cost ,Chinese made 50 pieces of glued together riser they are definitely obsolete imho .im sure they shoot as good as any $600 cheaper aluminum bow .


spike camp said:


> You couldn't be more wrong....PSE has and will crush any Hoyt carbon.
> Basically....Hoyt carbons are obsolete.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

0nepin said:


> I agree with the weight,cost ,Chinese made 50 pieces of glued together riser they are definitely obsolete imho .im sure they shoot as good as any $600 cheaper aluminum bow .


I don't have a disdain for Hoyt...I actually think they built an awesome product and their 2018 line is no exception.
But, for the price and the purposes of a carbon riser I can't believe the weight of their new offerings.

Might be a great bow but a heavy carbon makes zero sense to me and thus the reason I dubbed Hoyts '18 carbon...obsolete.


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

Can't wait to shoot them.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

0nepin said:


> I agree with the weight,cost ,Chinese made 50 pieces of glued together riser they are definitely obsolete imho .im sure they shoot as good as any $600 cheaper aluminum bow .


When were they made in China??? The Matrix riser was supposedly built in Europe . LOL all things being equal isn't round stronger than flat ! One of the reasons we still shoot round arrows


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Hoyt carbon riser are made in China.50 pieces glued together doesn't sound very strong to me .


ravensgait said:


> When were they made in China??? The Matrix riser was supposedly built in Europe . LOL all things being equal isn't round stronger than flat ! One of the reasons we still shoot round arrows


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Very few people are properly unbiased. Everyone has their own taste and that’s why all of these companies stay in business. In the last 5 years I’ve had a hoyt, a PSE, a bowtech, a mathews, a bear, a prime, and some elites... I loved all of them. Because they all shoot arrows which is what WE ALL love to do. Bows are totally personal preference. Just like cars, boats, houses, whatever. You treat them right, they all work. I just love bows.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


exactly


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## bighunterguy (May 2, 2012)

Like I said in an earlier thread. Hoyt- same riser now and for the last 9 years. Exact same construction and all feel the same. Nothing new. Keep drinking the ridiculous marketing Kool aid!! I've owned every carbon hoyt made. 
With that said I choose PSE carbon. Never would have thought PSE would make such an amazing cam system! They did! 


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Hoyt makes great bows and I think this year line up is also pretty nice ,maybe there best cam system ever but the heavy carbon bow just doesn't makes any sense to me either .i don't have any issues with heavier bows but the whole point of a carbon is weight Saving and Hoyt blew it on these ..


spike camp said:


> I don't have a disdain for Hoyt...I actually think they built an ahoytwesome product and their 2018 line is no exception.
> But, for the price and the purposes of a carbon riser I can't believe the weight of their new offerings.
> 
> Might be a great bow but a heavy carbon makes zero sense to me and thus the reason I dubbed Hoyts '18 carbon...obsolete.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

why does everyone rave about 90% let off????? the evolve cam is nice, but the draw stops when set at 80% seem kind of cheap, like an after thought, pse must have figured 
everyone would set them at 90


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## bighunterguy (May 2, 2012)

zekezoe said:


> why does everyone rave about 90% let off????? the evolve cam is nice, but the draw stops when set at 80% seem kind of cheap, like an after thought, pse must have figured
> everyone would set them at 90


People rave about them like they did when Elite hit the scene. Simply put. Shootabilty. Nowadays a lot of archers "especially the aging ones" who finally shoot a 90% letoff bow never want to go back to anything else. In the hunting world every little bit helps. 
This is why PSE and others are finally offering letoff options.
IMO the backwall at any letoff on the evolve cam is as solid as a limb stop. Zero sponge or give whatsoever.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

0nepin said:


> Hoyt carbon riser are made in China.50 pieces glued together doesn't sound very strong to me .


Your gonna have to show some proof of that . China doesn't do much carbon and what they do use they buy from South Korea and Japan . Like I said the Matrix riser was made in Europe but no where near China


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

adamantine said:


> I'm a Hoyt owner and I think the PSE is definitely the winner, but looking forward to shooting both.
> 
> The carbon stealth is almost a pound lighter than the RX-1 35 (3/4 lb lighter than 32), 12-20 fps faster, more adjustable, better monocoque design, full titanium hardware, and $150 less. They hit the nail on the head for guys that backpack and carry their bow all day... if it's too light, I'll just add stabilizer weight.
> 
> ...


Some good takes here ^^_


And on another note...

Also I pretty much learned that what Tom says you can take to bank. 


Going to shoot them both soon but my money is on the PSE


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Look it up .your probably the only that doesn't know there made in China by prince


ravensgait said:


> Your gonna have to show some proof of that . China doesn't do much carbon and what they do use they buy from South Korea and Japan . Like I said the Matrix riser was made in Europe but no where near China


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

0nepin said:


> Look it up .your probably the only that doesn't know there made in China by prince


LMAO only a few people have claimed that and back when this first came up we did do research and the China rumor like so much in these threads was BS . So unless you have some actual proof to show us !


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

We know that prince makes the riser for Hoyt and they have moved manufacturing to china or One Taiwan and that not Taiwan Texas


ravensgait said:


> LMAO only a few people have claimed that and back when this first came up we did do research and the China rumor like so much in these threads was BS . So unless you have some actual proof to show us !


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## Lefty0027 (Jan 31, 2016)

Pse over Hoyt


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

0nepin said:


> We know that prince makes the riser for Hoyt and they have moved manufacturing to china or One Taiwan and that not Taiwan Texas


We know, how do you know? the only thing we knew when the Matrix was new was that they teamed up with an Italian company to design them but wasn't that huge new building Hoyt built a few years back for them to put all the bow Manufacturing in one place ! So unless you have some proof !


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## lee31 (Nov 5, 2007)

I shot the RX1 tonight. 71lbs 28.5 draw 85 percent let off. Draw is very smooth a little stiffer than my pro Defiant 34 but very smooth. One thing I did notice for having a high let off it doesn't dump into the valley like my Energy 35. It also was very quiet and had just a touch of vibe nothing that a stabilizer wouldn't get rid of. The back wall was impressive not a dual limb stop wall but very good. I also like what they did with the bottom cam and the ease to tie a drop away rest in It also balances awesome.I think they did a great job with these bows. I'm not a carbon guy but if that's your thing definitely worth trying out it feels lighter than the listed weight. The shop shot 300,330 and 400 spine arrows through paper with it and they were all bullet holes.


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## azscorpion (Feb 12, 2010)

Hoyt rules the podiums.......FACT


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## griffwar (Nov 15, 2012)

azscorpion said:


> Hoyt rules the podiums.......FACT


Never seen a carbon bow on the podium, and this thread is about carbon bow's.


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## NY12020 (Feb 21, 2013)

azscorpion said:


> Hoyt rules the podiums.......FACT


The podiums are ruled by the best SHOOTERS not the best BOWS...


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

I shot both bows yesterday.
If I were to buy one it would be the pse carbon stealth. Waiting to shot the Hoyt rx-1 turbo though.
I’ve heard it’s great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I got to play with the Rx-1 today.very nice bow .the finish is ok at best ,the grip is comfortable and cheap feeling at the same time .to put thing in prospective I have been hunting the last week with a decree ic but with hd cams on it and in no way did the Rx-1 give me that light feeling but the draw is smooth ,maybe not as smooth as HD cams but Smooth .might be my favorite hoyt I have picked up to date .IMHO it felt like a nice aluminum bow .there nothing to dislike about this bow but the price and weight .i would not say it felt heavy just felt normal


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Lol right


griffwar said:


> Never seen a carbon bow on the podium, and this thread is about carbon bow's.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

griffwar said:


> Never seen a carbon bow on the podium, and this thread is about carbon bow's.


the pro shooters just don't know what they are missing....


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

I've seen a few.... lol. But most pros don't, most likely due to not being marketed for a target bow and the lack of stabilizer mounting holes.












griffwar said:


> Never seen a carbon bow on the podium, and this thread is about carbon bow's.


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## nontypical225 (Jan 4, 2009)

I was able to shoot both of the carbon offerings. I will state up front I am a Hoyt fan as they just seem to fit me. That said I am going to do my best to give you an honest opinion on both!

The PSE won hands down on the draw cycle, it is silky smooth! the PSE also won for noise and how smooth it was on the shot. It seems to be a great bow! The thing I didn't like where the let off, the grip and string angle. All of these are really a personal thing, I dont like a bow a feel like I have to push to let down and i like a longer ATA bow and the standard wood hoyt grip (again personal choice and not a knock on the manufacturer). Just my personal opinion but the PSE does look as nice to me as the Hoyt does. 

The Hoyt had a very smooth draw cycle but it loaded up quick and was stiff, I do think it was better than last years, The let off on this bow didnt bug me at all and I loved the valley! it was very short but not jumpy at all. I could easily let down and several times I would let it down 3-4" and then pull it back into the valley and wall with not a lot of effort. I thought I would hate the grip but that was not the case it felt very natural and I forgot about it after a couple shots. the bow is a little jumpy on the shot but I think this would go away with a good stabilizer (the one I shot had nothing on it other than a rest). 

over all I think they are both great bows! PSE wins in my opinion in the areas i pointed out above. now If you were to ask me which one I am buying I would say the Hoyt RX1 ultra and here is why. the main reason is valley and let off, string angle, grip and over all look of the bow. I know some guys will bash me for the looks part, but its my money and I will spend it anyway I want. The draw is still a very nice and overall I really like the bow. If those Items dont Bother you the PSE is the winner! again this is coming from a Hoyt guy.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

nontypical225 said:


> I was able to shoot both of the carbon offerings. I will state up front I am a Hoyt fan as they just seem to fit me. That said I am going to do my best to give you an honest opinion on both!
> 
> The PSE won hands down on the draw cycle, it is silky smooth! the PSE also won for noise and how smooth it was on the shot. It seems to be a great bow! The thing I didn't like where the let off, the grip and string angle. All of these are really a personal thing, I dont like a bow a feel like I have to push to let down and i like a longer ATA bow and the standard wood hoyt grip (again personal choice and not a knock on the manufacturer). Just my personal opinion but the PSE does look as nice to me as the Hoyt does.
> 
> ...


Nice balanced and honest feedback.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

nontypical225 said:


> I was able to shoot both of the carbon offerings. I will state up front I am a Hoyt fan as they just seem to fit me. That said I am going to do my best to give you an honest opinion on both!
> 
> The PSE won hands down on the draw cycle, it is silky smooth! the PSE also won for noise and how smooth it was on the shot. It seems to be a great bow! The thing I didn't like where the let off, the grip and string angle. All of these are really a personal thing, I dont like a bow a feel like I have to push to let down and i like a longer ATA bow and the standard wood hoyt grip (again personal choice and not a knock on the manufacturer). Just my personal opinion but the PSE does look as nice to me as the Hoyt does.
> 
> ...


Just so you know, the letoff is adjustable on the PSE. If it was set at 80% you probably wouldn't have the push forward problem, and if it was set at 65% I know you wouldn't have that problem.....but I appreciate the honest comparison.


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## NY12020 (Feb 21, 2013)

nontypical225 said:


> I was able to shoot both of the carbon offerings. I will state up front I am a Hoyt fan as they just seem to fit me. That said I am going to do my best to give you an honest opinion on both!
> 
> The PSE won hands down on the draw cycle, it is silky smooth! the PSE also won for noise and how smooth it was on the shot. It seems to be a great bow! The thing I didn't like where the let off, the grip and string angle. All of these are really a personal thing, I dont like a bow a feel like I have to push to let down and i like a longer ATA bow and the standard wood hoyt grip (again personal choice and not a knock on the manufacturer). Just my personal opinion but the PSE does look as nice to me as the Hoyt does.
> 
> ...


Did you adjust the amount of lef-off on the Stealth to compare? It can do 80-90% with the standard mod and 65-75 with optional mod. Good review of both bows.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

One of the nice features of the evolve cam bows - you technically have 6 let-off options to choose from. None of the competition even comes close to that optionality.


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## eltaco (Dec 30, 2009)

0nepin said:


> Hoyt carbon riser are made in China.50 pieces glued together doesn't sound very strong to me .


I'm just going to touch on this quickly since it's a giant red flag that you have such a strong opinion on carbon fiber construction, but don't understand it.

All carbon fiber structures are made with "glue"... resin, actually. Woven carbon fiber with no resin is a fabric with no rigidity... like your T-shirt. So that said, both risers in question are "glued" together... with similar quantities of resin, in fact. The "pieces", or layers, of additional carbon are sandwiched together to provide strength to a section that needs it. You really don't have enough information to decide which construction is better, but can we at least agree to argue with information that makes logical sense?


Aside from that, it's awesome to read some feedback from a few people in this thread who have actually shot both. There is actually some good information in here... finally!


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## nontypical225 (Jan 4, 2009)

Predator said:


> Nice balanced and honest feedback.


 Thank you, I have never understood not being open minded about stuff. Granted hoyts fit me well so I lean towards them but I'm going to let that blind me other good bows. 



sneak1413 said:


> Just so you know, the letoff is adjustable on the PSE. If it was set at 80% you probably wouldn't have the push forward problem, and if it was set at 65% I know you wouldn't have that problem.....but I appreciate the honest comparison.


 I am sure that would have helped. to be honest I am not all that familiar with their bows so I only had the draw length adjusted and shot it how the shop had it set up. 



NY12020 said:


> Did you adjust the amount of lef-off on the Stealth to compare? It can do 80-90% with the standard mod and 65-75 with optional mod. Good review of both bows.


 No I simply shot it the way the shop had it set up. This would not change my mind as a just simply couldnt get over the string angle. but I wouldnt buy a RX1 at 32" ata either. normally I would buy a turbo but since they dropped it an inch I am opting for the ultra.


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

nontypical225 said:


> I was able to shoot both of the carbon offerings. I will state up front I am a Hoyt fan as they just seem to fit me. That said I am going to do my best to give you an honest opinion on both!
> 
> The PSE won hands down on the draw cycle, it is silky smooth! the PSE also won for noise and how smooth it was on the shot. It seems to be a great bow! The thing I didn't like where the let off, the grip and string angle. All of these are really a personal thing, I dont like a bow a feel like I have to push to let down and i like a longer ATA bow and the standard wood hoyt grip (again personal choice and not a knock on the manufacturer). Just my personal opinion but the PSE does look as nice to me as the Hoyt does.
> 
> ...


Great objective review. I have shot Hoyt since 2014 when I bought two Carbon Sypder 30's. Still have them and always enjoy shooting them. Just before my Colorado trip, I picked up a PSE Carbon Air 32 ECS and shot it so well, that ended up being my main hunting bow out West this year. I took my Hoyts but never once picked them up. I love the Evolve cam system, and after I got used to the grip on the PSE, I just fell in love with it because I shot it so very well. I just seemed more consistent with it than my Hoyts. Not a terrible amount, but at long range I seemed to hit my target much more consistently. Hard to beat the draw cycle of the PSE with the Evolve cam, and with the new let off options, it should have something for everyone. I think the Hoyt is going to turn a lot of heads this year as well, and probably end up being one of their better bows in the last 3 years. I hope so anyways. At least they have a lot of people looking, myself included, which is good. But I say shoot whatever bow you want and decide from there. Sometimes a bow looks awesome, but just doesn't fit you well or feel like what you like on the shot. Shoot them, then post your thoughts and experiences like the OP and these others who have taken the time to shoot them and post about them.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Wish I could get my hands on a stealth to compare.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

eltaco said:


> I'm just going to touch on this quickly since it's a giant red flag that you have such a strong opinion on carbon fiber construction, but don't understand it.
> 
> All carbon fiber structures are made with "glue"... resin, actually. Woven carbon fiber with no resin is a fabric with no rigidity... like your T-shirt. So that said, both risers in question are "glued" together... with similar quantities of resin, in fact. The "pieces", or layers, of additional carbon are sandwiched together to provide strength to a section that needs it. You really don't have enough information to decide which construction is better, but can we at least agree to argue with information that makes logical sense?
> 
> ...


Um...i hate to break it to you but Hoyt states on their website that the riser is made of " 50 different custom carbon components " .


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## bhutso (Jan 4, 2007)

If I wanted to spend $1600 I would be smarter about it and buy two used evolve 35s 

 


I'll show myself out 
Carry on


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## eltaco (Dec 30, 2009)

trial153 said:


> Um...i hate to break it to you but Hoyt states on their website that the riser is made of " 50 different custom carbon components " .


You're not breaking any news to me. They're referring to layup pieces. Each of those are "custom" in that they fit in a specific location, with a specific purpose. This is pretty standard carbon construction information...

Do you debate that both risers use resin as a binder? Perhaps we should start at the beginning...


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

eltaco said:


> You're not breaking any news to me. They're referring to layup pieces. Each of those are "custom" in that they fit in a specific location, with a specific purpose. This is pretty standard carbon construction information...
> 
> Do you debate that both risers use resin as a binder? Perhaps we should start at the beginning...


The man is not debating about resin binding the carbon. He is talking about the difference between an eggshell and a pretzel if they were both carbon. these are two hugely diffent processes and designs in risers.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

So you think 50 Pieces of carbon tubes that are glued together with resins is as strong as PSE one piece riser ? I’m sure both riser are more than strong enough but only one is light and made in the USA .the Rx-1 is a nice bow but it felt just like an aluminum bow in my hands today


eltaco said:


> You're not breaking any news to me. They're referring to layup pieces. Each of those are "custom" in that they fit in a specific location, with a specific purpose. This is pretty standard carbon construction information...
> 
> Do you debate that both risers use resin as a binder? Perhaps we should start at the beginning...


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## nontypical225 (Jan 4, 2009)

bhutso said:


> If I wanted to spend $1600 I would be smarter about it and buy two used evolve 35s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


but I like carbon!  and as far as I know PSE doesn't make a 35" carbon bow. Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Yeah but at 4.1lbs and 330fps with a 6” Bh there nothing really appealing to me about that bow other than it’s warmer to the touch on really cold days than a standard aluminum bow .330Fps with 6” BH I bet it’s super easy to draw .


nontypical225 said:


> but I like carbon!  and as far as I know PSE doesn't make a 35" carbon bow. Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## eltaco (Dec 30, 2009)

0nepin said:


> So you think 50 Pieces of carbon tubes that are glued together with resins is as strong as PSE one piece riser ? I’m sure both riser are more than strong enough but only one is light and made in the USA .the Rx-1 is a nice bow but it felt just like an aluminum bow in my hands today


Now that point is certainly debatable... I can't tell you that... what I can tell you is that the 50 pieces or 1 piece isn't enough information to make a judgement on. Also, it's not 50 pieces of tube, it's 50 pieces of carbon fabric. 50 individual pieces of tube slapped together would be horrific.

I can make an assertion with confidence that if I stacked 50 layers of carbon together it would be stiffer than 1. That's neither here nor there. I can say that you don't have as much design freedom with PSEs approach, and that Hoyts approach allows more freedom, but is more labor intensive.

The stronger part comes down to many more details of mechanical design than how the carbon is constructed. That's a whole other topic. Suffice it to say that there's not enough information to make any assumptions as to strength or rigidity of either design. 

It is fun to see some comparisons, though. If it's anything like last year, it's going to come down to whether you prefer the weight of the PSE, or the feel on the shot of the Hoyt.


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## eyeguy (Feb 5, 2008)

I am not even close to being a carbon bow construction expert but how many of the current carbon riser bow designs are breaking with normal hard hunting use? I gotta say I dont like the sound of 50 pieces being fit together but if the end product is strong well I guess then no problem. I know I saw a you tube vid of a hoyt carbon bow being driven over by a truck numerous times. It didnt break. It was however a matrix or element. Cant remember which. So are the current risers holding up?


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

eltaco said:


> I'm just going to touch on this quickly since it's a giant red flag that you have such a strong opinion on carbon fiber construction, but don't understand it.
> 
> All carbon fiber structures are made with "glue"... resin, actually. Woven carbon fiber with no resin is a fabric with no rigidity... like your T-shirt. So that said, both risers in question are "glued" together... with similar quantities of resin, in fact. The "pieces", or layers, of additional carbon are sandwiched together to provide strength to a section that needs it. You really don't have enough information to decide which construction is better, but can we at least agree to argue with information that makes logical sense?
> 
> ...


Just ask the automotive , motorcycle and aerospace industries which process they prefer when it comes to carbon construction.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Other than Aesthetics and weight I don't think there's probably any difference in function. PSE wins in both those categories. I just wish they had different finish options then what they do.


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## nontypical225 (Jan 4, 2009)

0nepin said:


> Yeah but at 4.1lbs and 330fps with a 6” Bh there nothing really appealing to me about that bow other than it’s warmer to the touch on really cold days than a standard aluminum bow .330Fps with 6” BH I bet it’s super easy to draw .


well the good thing is there is something for everyone and like I said the PSE is an awesome bow And the winner in a lot of categories for me that said I am a carbon guy. why because just like you mentioned it is warmer. This is important to me as I HATE to wear gloves and when I am hunting in the late season for Blacktails or just like on my moose hunt I just had I want to be able to hold my bow without gloves on and not have my fingers go numb. Again all person preference. I am a big guy at 6'4" and 260 pounds, the weight doesn't bother me either. 

I am not trying to convince anyone to buy what I buy or shoot what I shoot. I could really care less what people do with their money. I am fortunate enough that I can buy a bow or 2 a year and have it not effect my budget, I like new things and I like my toys. the OP wanted a comparison of both carbon bows and I give him my honest opinion simple as that. Yes I could go buy an aluminum 35" PSE but I simply don't want to, I want to stick with carbon bows for now and not have to wrap the grip and things like that.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

trial153 said:


> Um...i hate to break it to you but Hoyt states on their website that the riser is made of " 50 different custom carbon components " .


As opposed to the 78 PSE uses lolol  



0nepin said:


> So you think 50 Pieces of carbon tubes that are glued together with resins is as strong as PSE one piece riser ? I’m sure both riser are more than strong enough but only one is light and made in the USA .the Rx-1 is a nice bow but it felt just like an aluminum bow in my hands today


Guys don't have a clue but just hate it cuz it a Hoyt . Kind of like reverse fan boys . 

Look at bikes, Tennis rackets , Fly rods , heck even rotor bales for Helicopters etc etc there are a number of unique applications


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

You have no clue how pse carbon are made .i don’t hate the RX-1 .its actually a very nice bow , after playing with it today it’s my new favorite Hoyt .with that said I would never buy one because it’s way over priced for its specs .some people might actually want a carbon bow that weighs as much as a aluminum bow and that’s fine .i have been hunting with a 2015 decree IC with HD cam this week and to be 100% honest it better in every way compared to the RX-1 expect surface temp in really cold weather.Hoyt can charge what ever they want for it and there Fanboys will pay up .good for Hoyt


ravensgait said:


> As opposed to the 78 PSE uses lolol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

I shot and looked at a Carbon air 34, and a RX1 today. As a side note, I have PSE AND Hoyt bows. Hoyt finally got their act together on the carbon bows finish, they looked great. I actually thought they weren't as heavy as some were worried about, didn't feel bad. I like the shape of the grip, but it looks like it came off a price point bow, no Hoyt logo, and to be honest-it looked cheap. Draw cycle felt like my Nitrum, not as easy and "smooth" (I hat to use this term) as last years bows. It shot about the same as my Nitrum, nothing weird or jumpy. I do wish they would do away with the v-shaped arrow shelf, no need and it takes away rest clearance, plus it's offset, makes no sense to me. I did not like the axels being less than 1/8" from the edge of the limbs, looks like it could very easily crack, probably why they put a extra piece on the outside and a fastener, like a bolt their.

Then I got my hands on my first C/A 34, I can't get one anyways, they don't make them in a long enough draw. But it's a very sleek looking bow, long curved lines, not a bunch of small radius bends, and very light. Grip felt really good, about like a Hoyt, both favorites of mine. Draw cycle is VERY much like a Elite on 90%, no humps at all, and turned down to 80%, I liked it even better. I'm not a fan of big let-off. The bow shot the same as the Hoyt, no vibes or any problems. Finish was really nice with a carbon pattern being seen on the sides, they were sold out of the camo models. The titanium bolts look great, and add a nice touch. 

Now if I had to choose between either, if offered, I would go with the C/A, not because it's a PSE, who cares, it just looks like a bow worth it's price tag, even though it's more than I would pay. I top out at about 1 grand on any bow, I just don't see anything worth more than that. I also tried the Hyperforce, and wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wants to see a complete bowsight, the riser covers about 1/3 of a sight, in this case a Axcel Armortech, and to me is very annoying, if that doesn't bother you, have at it.--BB


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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

ravensgait said:


> As opposed to the 78 PSE uses lolol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hate to disagree with you, but all the things you mentioned don't have small radius bends, especially bikes. A monocoque construction is made from one piece, like the wheels of Formula One Cars and their suspension arms, small radii are weak in extreme applications, not that bows are anywhere near a extreme application. No where inside a airplane are you going to find a load bearing surface made like a Hoyt riser, long curves are the norm.--BB


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

0nepin said:


> You have no clue how pse carbon are made .i don’t hate the RX-1 .its actually a very nice bow , after playing with it today it’s my new favorite Hoyt .with that said I would never buy one because it’s way over priced for its specs .some people might actually want a carbon bow that weighs as much as a aluminum bow and that’s fine .i have been hunting with a 2015 decree IC with HD cam this week and to be 100% honest it better in every way compared to the RX-1 expect surface temp in really cold weather.Hoyt can charge what ever they want for it and there Fanboys will pay up .good for Hoyt


I guess we'll have to start writing "I am joking !" Since you can't seem to get it.
The point is that you have no clue about how either one is made or where


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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

The PSE bows are made in the USA, as are most Hoyt bows, the carbon PSE risers are also made here, but not at PSE's plant. Rumor has it a bicycle company makes them.--BB


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

Bourbon Boy said:


> I hate to disagree with you, but all the things you mentioned don't have small radius bends, especially bikes. A monocoque construction is made from one piece, like the wheels of Formula One Cars and their suspension arms, small radii are weak in extreme applications, not that bows are anywhere near a extreme application. No where inside a airplane are you going to find a load bearing surface made like a Hoyt riser, long curves are the norm.--BB


Can't remember saying they did .
Point was carbon is made into lots of things with as I mentioned different processes.
If you go by what Hoyt said about it they had been working on Carbon risers for 18 years before making something they were willing to sell .
If you go by what PSE says they seem to use the same process and lay the carbon over their form that is to made t reduce vibration . 
Hoyt hit it out of the park in sales with their Carbons which is why those that can have followed and made their own . At a Guess Hoyts new offering is so heavy because they needed weight in places to balance it , if they stay with this concept I imagine it will get lighter .

Why I am no expert in carbon I do actually look at the what when where etc etc lol

Guess the lolol and winking emoji don't do it for people these days ! 

For those that don't know lol I had to look it up the first time I read that word in reference to PSE bows 
Monocoque, also structural skin, is a structural system where loads are supported through an object's external skin, similar to an egg shell.


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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

It's a forum, no one has to agree, and I'm even a Hoyt fan. I wanted a new Hoyt carbon-because it can be bought for my 32" draw!!!!! But, The limbs look like a bomb waiting to go off-to me-I don't know why they put the axel holes so close to the outside, and I can't stand that stupid "V" riser shelf that will hit your arrow rest. The grip was really nice, but cheap. Look at this and a PSE Carbon Air 34 side by side and do your own test.--BB


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

Anyone have any pics of these bows side by side??? Sucks my shop doesn't have the stealth in yet and I feel like if I go and shoot the hoyt I'll walk out with it and possibly regret it when the stealth comes in 

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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

My shop HAD 4 Stealths in, sold them in two days. I wanted to see one, I can't buy it anyway, not enough draw length (CRAP!!). They did tell me they look even better than the C/A I shot, and were fast as heck. Lots of IBO shooters around here. --BB


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## bighunterguy (May 2, 2012)

So far those that shot the new RX1 in this thread have not raved about how much better and amazing it is over previous Hoyt's or that they plopped down the $ to scoop one up! Hmmm  guess that whole Hoyt marketing thing doesn't sell a bow after you shoot it?? lol 


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## Mathews32155 (Oct 18, 2017)

My only thing in all this is that I just can’t understand how with a 6” brace Hoyt is only getting 330fps advertised out of the 35” carbon? I just have to think with a 6” brace it would be faster.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

Mathews32155 said:


> My only thing in all this is that I just can’t understand how with a 6” brace Hoyt is only getting 330fps advertised out of the 35” carbon? I just have to think with a 6” brace it would be faster.


I bet it's faster than that. 

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## Mathews32155 (Oct 18, 2017)

Ingo said:


> I bet it's faster than that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


It might be but if it is why wouldn’t they say 335 or 340? From the speed results on the videos I’ve seen it seems that the 2018 Hoyt’s are hitting right at or slightly under their speed ratings. I don’t think they’re going to get say 5fps faster than advertised like most of the older Hoyt’s did. I know 330 isn’t slow I’m just saying with a 6” brace you’d think it would be faster than that.


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

bighunterguy said:


> So far those that shot the new RX1 in this thread have not raved about how much better and amazing it is over previous Hoyt's or that they plopped down the $ to scoop one up! Hmmm  guess that whole Hoyt marketing thing doesn't sell a bow after you shoot it?? lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I have the itch for a Carbon again and PSE may just win out 


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## csalodge (Jun 12, 2014)

More than a few of us will be waiting for your review...


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## tibbes (Feb 12, 2013)

I`ve starded a kinda similar thread,"PSE-PERFORM X3D vs HOYT-PRO FORCE". So far, I`ve only got a few to responce and it looks like the thread is as death as death can be.
My request for no bashing must be the reason. LOL


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## WTFizzat? (Jul 21, 2016)

I was able to shoot both the PSE Stealth, and the Hoyt Redsubaru today. Loved the light weight of the PSE and it also had the best draw cycle of any bow I've ever tried. The Hoyt is a nice bow but for me, did nothing special. I'll keep both my Reign 6, and Halon 6, over this offering. The Stealth would be nice to have for those hard days in Hell's Canyon.


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

I hope to be able to post a review of my Stealth in a few weeks when it comes in. I'm sure there will be plenty of both it and the RX-1 in the meantime.


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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Speed don't matter, but the Hoyt will win, and as far as draw cycle its the Hoyt all day ever day.


Hahahahaha, Hoyt koolaid addiction....

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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

spike camp said:


> You couldn't be more wrong....PSE has and will crush any Hoyt carbon.
> Basically....Hoyt carbons are obsolete.


I agree!

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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

ravensgait said:


> We know, how do you know? the only thing we knew when the Matrix was new was that they teamed up with an Italian company to design them but wasn't that huge new building Hoyt built a few years back for them to put all the bow Manufacturing in one place ! So unless you have some proof !


Dont know why you refuse to accept the fact that the risers are made in China by Prince Sports with their patented "o-tech". If you did any research at all you can easily find out they are made by Prince and that all of Prince's manufacturing facilities are in China. And if you do a little more research you will find that a few years back Hoyt outsourced production of their youth and budget bows (ruckus, ruckus jr, ignite) to China (admitted to by Hoyt reps).


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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

rok1167 said:


> From my perspective, PSE guys are the worst for knocking others and fanboy. Spend some time, check it out, they love their fugly bows.


I have owned and currently own both carbon brands and models and will have to say the Hoyt is now obsolete compared to PSE.

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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

brokenlittleman said:


> Interested to shoot this years Carbon bows. Was not a fan of last years PSE Carbon. One I shot had more kick and noise than I have felt in a bow for long time. Draw was very nice as typical with their new cams system but couldn't get over the fact it felt terrible at the shot.


I had both PSE carbons and did not experience that at all. In fact I thought the carbon Defiant was noisy. I will say the Hoyt shot slightly better for me, but not very much.

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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

Kris87 said:


> Mind expanding on what you did with the ECS at longer distances? I loved Hoyt grips, as I shot them forever. I transitioned the same grip I used on Hoyts straight over to my CA34 and shoot it better than I've ever shot anything. The flat back grip is very repeatable for me as I shoot straight off the thumb pad, not the lifeline. What do you do that caused you issues?


I agree on the flat back grip. Once I figured it out it is very repetable and accurate.

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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

hoyt carbon is obsolete, funny stuff there. Hoyt will sell 3-4 times as many carbon bows than pse. Local dealer sells both and it wont be even close. They could hardly give away pse carbon air's. 
Not saying hoyt are that much better, but people associate hoyt with being a better brand.


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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

0nepin said:


> Hoyt carbon riser are made in China.50 pieces glued together doesn't sound very strong to me .


That is good to know... Even more reason I wont buy one... Knowing this actually discurages me from buying a Hoyt bow in the future.

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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

bighunterguy said:


> Like I said in an earlier thread. Hoyt- same riser now and for the last 9 years. Exact same construction and all feel the same. Nothing new. Keep drinking the ridiculous marketing Kool aid!! I've owned every carbon hoyt made.
> With that said I choose PSE carbon. Never would have thought PSE would make such an amazing cam system! They did!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I feel the same as you.

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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

zekezoe said:


> hoyt carbon is obsolete, funny stuff there. Hoyt will sell 3-4 times as many carbon bows than pse. Local dealer sells both and it wont be even close. They could hardly give away pse carbon air's.
> Not saying hoyt are that much better, but people associate hoyt with being a better brand.



Do you have sales numbers to back up your claim?
Whatever you see happening in pin hole WI means zero in relation to national sales numbers for either company.


Obsolete,seems like an accurate description.
The RX1 is an awesome bow,I'm sure.
But the number one reason (for me anyway) for a carbon riser is reduced mass weight.
Anyone stuck on the mass weight should put the new Hoyt on a scale...bet you a dollar it's even heavier than it's listed weight.
But the comparisons don't stop there.
Read the reviews...
PSE is smoother,faster,lighter,more adjustable,over all more simple....and less expensive to top it off.


The Hoyt is a beautiful work of engineering,and I'd appreciate owning one but if I was in the market for a new carbon...it would be a no brainer decision (for me anyway) and that's saying a lot after owning around 8 Hoyt carbons.


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## Janss72 (Mar 12, 2012)

Hoyts may have a nice draw cycle but if they are just now getting to the 85% let off mark they are behind, Prime reached that first and then PSE countered with the evolve cam system, as far as i am concerned ill take the american made carbon bow any day and will enjoy having the higher let off with more speed 

P.S The evolve cam really is the smoothest on the market


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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

rlawless said:


> I had both PSE carbons and did not experience that at all. In fact I thought the carbon Defiant was noisy. I will say the Hoyt shot slightly better for me, but not very much.
> 
> Sent Via Tapatalk


Happy for you. One I shot was terrible


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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

nontypical225 said:


> I was able to shoot both of the carbon offerings. I will state up front I am a Hoyt fan as they just seem to fit me. That said I am going to do my best to give you an honest opinion on both!
> 
> The PSE won hands down on the draw cycle, it is silky smooth! the PSE also won for noise and how smooth it was on the shot. It seems to be a great bow! The thing I didn't like where the let off, the grip and string angle. All of these are really a personal thing, I dont like a bow a feel like I have to push to let down and i like a longer ATA bow and the standard wood hoyt grip (again personal choice and not a knock on the manufacturer). Just my personal opinion but the PSE does look as nice to me as the Hoyt does.
> 
> ...


You might like the 65-75% modules on the PSE Evolve cams.. I am a fan of the HD cams with the limb stops, very solid.

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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

spike camp said:


> Do you have sales numbers to back up your claim?
> Whatever you see happening in pin hole WI means zero in relation to national sales numbers for either company.
> 
> 
> ...


If I buy another carbon bow it will be a pse ! The last Hoyt carbon bow I had was disappointing in a lot of areas , finish was horrible , it was a bear to tune and it was just a turd in the speed department !


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

brokenlittleman said:


> Happy for you. One I shot was terrible


The 2016/17 carbon air did have more vibe and kick than the carbon defiant for sure.
It also was 3.2 lbs vs 3.7... 
the 2018 carbon stealth is much improved with the same amount of handshock (imo)
As the Hoyt rx-1. But the pse still weighs 3.2 lbs and the Hoyt 3.9.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

Mathews32155 said:


> It might be but if it is why wouldn’t they say 335 or 340? From the speed results on the videos I’ve seen it seems that the 2018 Hoyt’s are hitting right at or slightly under their speed ratings. I don’t think they’re going to get say 5fps faster than advertised like most of the older Hoyt’s did. I know 330 isn’t slow I’m just saying with a 6” brace you’d think it would be faster than that.


Hoyt uses ATA measurements which are a more honest measurement , if tested IBO I would imagine as in years past their numbers would be 5 to 10 FPS faster 



ChuckA84 said:


> Dont know why you refuse to accept the fact that the risers are made in China by Prince Sports with their patented "o-tech". If you did any research at all you can easily find out they are made by Prince and that all of Prince's manufacturing facilities are in China. And if you do a little more research you will find that a few years back Hoyt outsourced production of their youth and budget bows (ruckus, ruckus jr, ignite) to China (admitted to by Hoyt reps).


LMAO you're talking about the same company that went bankrupt in 2012 and was bought out ! Who made their carbon products in Italy ! Back in I think 2011 Hoyt talked about their brand new huge building for bringing the MFG of all their bows under one roof. Where they make the inexpensive bows has nothing to do with this conversation 
One thing I would really doubt, that any bow company makes their own carbon, they buy it and make it into what they need , rather expensive to develop and make, look at the cost of the top of the line Fly Rods !! 1000 bucks give or take ! and we wonder why a carbon bow cost so much . Sucks but it is expensive


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

Why would you want a carbon bow that is as heavy as an aluminum bow? I thought the main reason for getting a carbon bow would be to reduce weight?


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I have shot both brands a good bit and both were tuned .not the stealth from pse but the carbon air ecs .never shot hoyt carbon that shot bad but all of them with the air shocks were loud to me the new RX-1 is much quieter .with that said the carbon air feels much better on the draw and is as quiet as the new RX-1 maybe a little quieter but it feels a lot lighter.if somebody says either shot bad there either a lying fanboy for the other brand or shot one that was way out of tune .after spending time with the RX_1 there no way I would spend any where near $1600 for it ,it’s heavier than the aluminum bow I have been hunting with.I think Hoyt has just invented another class of bows (carbon alloy hybrid) cost of carbon but the weight of aluminum.as far as the benefits of a carbon riser PSE is light years ahead of Hoyt and that just a fact .


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Only fanboys of said brand


Dewboy said:


> Why would you want a carbon bow that is as heavy as an aluminum bow? I thought the main reason for getting a carbon bow would be to reduce weight?


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

Dewboy said:


> Why would you want a carbon bow that is as heavy as an aluminum bow? I thought the main reason for getting a carbon bow would be to reduce weight?



My intention is to not harp on this subject....but I'm flabbergasted at this as well.
In a few instances,Hoyts 2018 32" carbon is significantly heavier than a few aluminum bows out there....PSE Decree IC being one.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Hoyt carbon riser are made in China .get over it .my carbon element had the worst finish work done I have seen so I definitely believe it’s made in China .


ravensgait said:


> Hoyt uses ATA measurements which are a more honest measurement , if tested IBO I would imagine as in years past their numbers would be 5 to 10 FPS faster
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

0nepin said:


> Hoyt carbon riser are made in China .get over it .my carbon element had the worst finish work done I have seen so I definitely believe it’s made in China .


My guess would be that the finish work is done domestically, and just the raw risers are outsourced.
Either way....reports are that the finish is subpar on the new Hoyts which is unacceptable regardless of price...
That said,I'd wadger the Hoyt carbon is a very difficult bow to get a clean film dip .


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

0nepin said:


> Hoyt carbon riser are made in China .get over it .my carbon element had the worst finish work done I have seen so I definitely believe it’s made in China .


LMAO and you are full of chit and can't admit !
I think it is funny how clueless all to many people are today , don't have a clue and don't want one. No one would send anything to China to be made out of Carbon ! they have to buy the carbon they make arrows etc out of from Japan and Korea ! Even had to buy the carbon for their um stealth plane from Korea lol 
So show some actual proof as your word isn't proof of anything ! So get over yourself clueless .


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

You mad bruh? ^^

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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

spike camp said:


> Do you have sales numbers to back up your claim?
> Whatever you see happening in pin hole WI means zero in relation to national sales numbers for either company.
> 
> 
> ...


Well said.. I have a Stealth ordered and should be in any time now.. I still have a Hoyt CD 31and a PSE CA 32 in the locker and they both shoot very well.. If i do buy another Hoyt this year it will be the Hyperforce, because I am interested in the new cam design, balance, grip and shootability.. No way will I pay the price for a carbon bow weighing just 6oz. less than the Hyperforce with the same new features and the 9 yr old carbon riser design. I feel PSE has set the bar with their carbon Stealth riser and the Evolve cams adjustability. Reading through this entire thread PSE clearly has edged out Hoyt.

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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

ravensgait said:


> LMAO you're talking about the same company that went bankrupt in 2012 and was bought out ! Who made their carbon products in Italy ! Back in I think 2011 Hoyt talked about their brand new huge building for bringing the MFG of all their bows under one roof. Where they make the inexpensive bows has nothing to do with this conversation
> One thing I would really doubt, that any bow company makes their own carbon, they buy it and make it into what they need , rather expensive to develop and make, look at the cost of the top of the line Fly Rods !! 1000 bucks give or take ! and we wonder why a carbon bow cost so much . Sucks but it is expensive


Yes, that same company, which was actually originally an American company (not Italian). The products were never made in Italy, the company was just owned by an Italian investment firm at one time. Here's an article for you with some good reading about their partnership with Hoyt. Also you can check the wiki on the company's history for further info.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/sports/tennis/30prince.html



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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

zekezoe said:


> hoyt carbon is obsolete, funny stuff there. Hoyt will sell 3-4 times as many carbon bows than pse. Local dealer sells both and it wont be even close. They could hardly give away pse carbon air's.
> Not saying hoyt are that much better, but people associate hoyt with being a better brand.


#ers, or it did'nt happen


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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

Get serious, get butt cream.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

pseshooter84 said:


> You mad bruh? ^^
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk





ChuckA84 said:


> Yes, that same company, which was actually originally an American company (not Italian). The products were never made in Italy, the company was just owned by an Italian investment firm at one time. Here's an article for you with some good reading about their partnership with Hoyt. Also you can check the wiki on the company's history for further info.
> 
> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/sports/tennis/30prince.html
> 
> ...


It was and still is an American company Prince that is . Prince is based in Atlanta now 
For those who didn't click the link this was the headline it was referring to Prince company ."Racket Manufacturer Creates Market for Something That Isn’t There"
It doesn't make anything in China .
Randy Walk said this when asked in an interview about the carbon bows a few years ago " Due to the proprietary nature of the process we cannot discuss fabrication locations or methods but all Hoyt bows have and continue to be built in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA. "


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

anyone got Chronograph speeds of both bows with the same arrow? would be nice to see it on video


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

ravensgait said:


> It was and still is an American company Prince that is . Prince is based in Atlanta now
> For those who didn't click the link this was the headline it was referring to Prince company ."Racket Manufacturer Creates Market for Something That Isn’t There"
> It doesn't make anything in China .
> Randy Walk said this when asked in an interview about the carbon bows a few years ago " Due to the proprietary nature of the process we cannot discuss fabrication locations or methods but all Hoyt bows have and continue to be built in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA. "


Princes only manufacturing facilities are in China...look up any of their products and see where they are made. The American ownership is nothing more than an investment firm. Stop trying to spread false information. The carbon risers are manufactured (ie fabricated) in China and assembled (limbs and strings added) in America. By the way the Earth is round too.

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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

So hoyt and pse carbon is both made in the USA?

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## c_rob04 (Jul 19, 2011)

I went to my local dealer today and shot both the hoyt rx-1 and the pse carbon air. The hoyt was more dead in the hand but did have some hand shock. The pse, although had more hand shock, was definitely faster. Both light bows, but the hoyt was noticeably heavier than the pse. Both under 4 lbs but the pse was a true 3.2 lbs. Extremely light which to me was not very comfortable. Draw cycle which both were at 71 to 72 lbs maxed out was really smooth for a 70lb bow. The hoyt was smoother to the valley and didn't dump over. Really smooth into the backwall. Held really good, didn't feel like it was gonna jump out of my hand at all. I felt as I could hold it all day. Now for the pse, smooth draw to the valley but then dumped over to the backwall. But one crazy part was that I really felt I could have let go of the release and it would stay at full draw. Unbelievable!! 90 percent let off is remarkable. Overall, both bows are excellent. I have to say that I enjoyed the hoyt just a bit more than the pse but you truly have to shoot them to get your own feel. I may have a hoyt very soon!

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## c_rob04 (Jul 19, 2011)

c_rob04 said:


> I went to my local dealer today and shot both the hoyt rx-1 and the pse carbon air. The hoyt was more dead in the hand but did have some hand shock. The pse, although had more hand shock, was definitely faster. Both light bows, but the hoyt was noticeably heavier than the pse. Both under 4 lbs but the pse was a true 3.2 lbs. Extremely light which to me was not very comfortable. Draw cycle which both were at 71 to 72 lbs maxed out was really smooth for a 70lb bow. The hoyt was smoother to the valley and didn't dump over. Really smooth into the backwall. Held really good, didn't feel like it was gonna jump out of my hand at all. I felt as I could hold it all day. Now for the pse, smooth draw to the valley but then dumped over to the backwall. But one crazy part was that I really felt I could have let go of the release and it would stay at full draw. Unbelievable!! 90 percent let off is remarkable. Overall, both bows are excellent. I have to say that I enjoyed the hoyt just a bit more than the pse but you truly have to shoot them to get your own feel. I may have a hoyt very soon!
> 
> Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk


Also, hoyt had some really cool camo patterns as well!

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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

The truth hurts ?


ravensgait said:


> LMAO and you are full of chit and can't admit !
> I think it is funny how clueless all to many people are today , don't have a clue and don't want one. No one would send anything to China to be made out of Carbon ! they have to buy the carbon they make arrows etc out of from Japan and Korea ! Even had to buy the carbon for their um stealth plane from Korea lol
> So show some actual proof as your word isn't proof of anything ! So get over yourself clueless .


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

c_rob04 said:


> I went to my local dealer today and shot both the hoyt rx-1 and the pse carbon air. The hoyt was more dead in the hand but did have some hand shock. The pse, although had more hand shock, was definitely faster. Both light bows, but the hoyt was noticeably heavier than the pse. Both under 4 lbs but the pse was a true 3.2 lbs. Extremely light which to me was not very comfortable. Draw cycle which both were at 71 to 72 lbs maxed out was really smooth for a 70lb bow. The hoyt was smoother to the valley and didn't dump over. Really smooth into the backwall. Held really good, didn't feel like it was gonna jump out of my hand at all. I felt as I could hold it all day. Now for the pse, smooth draw to the valley but then dumped over to the backwall. But one crazy part was that I really felt I could have let go of the release and it would stay at full draw. Unbelievable!! 90 percent let off is remarkable. Overall, both bows are excellent. I have to say that I enjoyed the hoyt just a bit more than the pse but you truly have to shoot them to get your own feel. I may have a hoyt very soon!
> 
> Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk


This is spot on!!! The camo on the Hoyts is much nicer than the PSE also, especially the Realtree Edge camo!! The mossy oak on the PSE is ugly


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

anyone see the stealth in Camo? would love to see a picture of that


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

That is one thing pse keeps failing at year after year is the camo options.. kind of pathetic at this point.. I love Verde and all the Sitka options that Mathews, elite, bowtech, and now hoyt have used.. What is the deal pse?? Kryptek is worse than the mossy oak 

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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

pseshooter84 said:


> That is one thing pse keeps failing at year after year is the camo options.. kind of pathetic at this point.. I love Verde and all the Sitka options that Mathews, elite, bowtech, and now hoyt have used.. What is the deal pse?? Kryptek is worse than the mossy oak
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


The kryptek raid pattern on my reign 6 is sweet so I don't know what you talking bout Willis.


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

Lol, pse is using the highlander I believe. It looks like a spicy mustard stain... haha.. I hate it and I'm so so sick of just being limited to mossy oak with them. I like mossy oak.. back in 09 when it was on my x force gx it was the bomb diggity but almost a decade later and they introduce kryptek highlander.. let me repeat that, kryptek highlander... woooooooo! Seriously though, they are late to that party so it's played out a bit by now. I do still like the skullworks but I can only have so many bows with it before I want something different. My biggest issue is that they void your warranty if you have it dipped or kokorfused.. if they had more options I wouldn't want to have it dipped!

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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

I totally agree on the pse Camo options! Seems like black is their best option. Awesome bows, ugly options


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

camo options is the only category the RX1 wins in.....


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

ravensgait said:


> Hoyt uses ATA measurements which are a more honest measurement , if tested IBO I would imagine as in years past their numbers would be 5 to 10 FPS faster
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do know that hoyt hasn’t really exceeded their speeds like they used to since 2015


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Those Pse carbons would look great kolorfused with asat camo....these are the only pse bows that have interested me the last two years....Grizz


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

ChuckA84 said:


> Princes only manufacturing facilities are in China...look up any of their products and see where they are made. The American ownership is nothing more than an investment firm. Stop trying to spread false information. The carbon risers are manufactured (ie fabricated) in China and assembled (limbs and strings added) in America. By the way the Earth is round too.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Numnuts everything I posted can be fact checked you on the other hand post what your bothers dogs sister said lol 



pseshooter84 said:


> So hoyt and pse carbon is both made in the USA?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


According to Hoyts President they are . China doesn't do much with Carbon lol they had to buy carbon to make their F-35 look alike 



0nepin said:


> The truth hurts ?


Why are you in pain lolol



ex-wolverine said:


> You do know that the ATA bought the IBO a while ago
> 
> Hence that’s why it is now called ATA
> 
> The standard is still the same ...


It is two different forms of measurement , here just so you know check these out 
https://www.archerytrade.org/
http://www.ibo.net/

pseshooter ,, forgot to reply, not mad at all more disappointed at how more and more people choose to be so ignorant , have a good one


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

ravensgait said:


> It is two different forms of measurement ,


You are correct I was thinking amo


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

ravensgait said:


> Numnuts everything I posted can be fact checked you on the other hand post what your bothers dogs sister said lol
> 
> 
> According to Hoyts President they are . China doesn't do much with Carbon lol they had to buy carbon to make their F-35 look alike
> ...


Really mature of you to call me "numnuts", but to help you out there is a b after the num. You are the only one being ignorant. Call Hoyt on Monday and ask them if their carbon risers are manufactured in America. Also call Prince Sports and ask them where their manufacturing facilities are. You can easily look that up and see that all of Prince's products are made in China. I've never seen someone in so much denial over something so stupid. And the statement of Randy Walk "we can not discuss fabrication locations" was his convoluted answer to the yes or no question of are they made in the USA...if they were he would have gave a simple yes.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

ChuckA84 said:


> Really mature of you to call me "numnuts", but to help you out there is a b after the num. You are the only one being ignorant. Call Hoyt on Monday and ask them if their carbon risers are manufactured in America. Also call Prince Sports and ask them where their manufacturing facilities are. You can easily look that up and see that all of Prince's products are made in China. I've never seen someone in so much denial over something so stupid. And the statement of Randy Walk "we can not discuss fabrication locations" was his convoluted answer to the yes or no question of are they made in the USA...if they were he would have gave a simple yes.


Yeah yeah yeah because you say so lol Still not one little bit of proof to back you up !


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## johnno (Apr 11, 2006)

spike camp said:


> You couldn't be more wrong....PSE has and will crush any Hoyt carbon.
> Basically....Hoyt carbons are obsolete.


Gotta agree...regardless of what I personally shoot....PSE appears to have trumped Hoyt in every way this year...


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## HbDane (Sep 13, 2013)

^^^^I disagree. But my opinion doesn't mean ****. But the hoyt felt a hell of a lot better in my hand compared to the PSE


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## leftee (Nov 15, 2005)

Lotsa 'Dirty Laundry' here.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...05cbcf90687e897790f3a023efabe9be&action=click

Eventually Hoyt wins cause they field the most bobbleheads and bubble headed beach blondes.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

sneak1413 said:


> I sold mine to my brother and just this summer put a new set of strings on it and tuned it up for him. That bow is one of the quietest bows to date. He said that every time he takes it to the range he gets complimented on how quiet it is. I did do a few things to it to make it much quieter than factory though. I shot 10 animals that fall with that bow at some pretty sketchy distances to boot. I still wouldn't trade either of my evolve cam bows for it but man that bow was a shooter.


The only thing that made the Alpha 35 even better was the Z-3 conversion. I still have one in the stable. To this day I have taken more animals with that configuration than any other single set up. But this new RX-1 Ultra is absolutely giving it a run as far as tune, noise, and shoot-ability. The balance point, ease of tune, holding and forgiveness can't be matched on the new Hoyts. Wait till you spend some time with them.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

ex-wolverine said:


> You do know that hoyt hasn’t really exceeded their speeds like they used to since 2015


In the right hands they do this year.


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

Lol. I love this thread .. overall I'm sure I'll be happy with either one. Hopefully get to shoot them both Monday or Tuesday


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I bet you have a hoyt tramp stamp .


THE ELKMAN said:


> In the right hands they do this year.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

anyone ever see the list of so called hunters on hoyts website that are quasi spoonored? no wonder prices are are insane.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

0nepin said:


> I bet you have a hoyt tramp stamp .


If I did, I bet you would want to stare at it...


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I have spent some time with the RX-1 and it balances very well and the draw is nice and just a slight bit of hand shock .great bow ? Yes worth $1600 ? Not because there’s bows for much less that are better .its a very good bow but there charging you top of the line performance and it’s not there .i have been shooting a bow siince 2015 that has a smoother draw ,its faster ,its lighter and with this little add on its just a comfortable in super cold weather.now if you end up spending $1600 on a nex RX-1 you have a nice bow but no better than people spending $800-$1000 .maybe Hoyt will start making aluminum bows with carbon fiber shells just around the grip area .that would have the same result as the RX-1.leave making carbon fiber bows to pse where they actually make them light .


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Maybe that’s why they had to make carbon/alloy hybrid bow ? Gotta save $$$ somewhere


trial153 said:


> anyone ever see the list of so called hunters on hoyts website that are quasi spoonored? no wonder prices are are insane.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

0nepin said:


> I have spent some time with the RX-1 and it balances very well and the draw is nice and just a slight bit of hand shock .great bow ? Yes worth $1600 ? Not because there’s bows for much less that are better .its a very good bow but there charging you top of the line performance and it’s not there .i have been shooting a bow siince 2015 that has a smoother draw ,its faster ,its lighter and with this little add on its just a comfortable in super cold weather.now if you end up spending $1600 on a nex RX-1 you have a nice bow but no better than people spending $800-$1000 .maybe Hoyt will start making aluminum bows with carbon fiber shells just around the grip area .that would have the same result as the RX-1.leave making carbon fiber bows to pse where they actually make them light .


No doubt the PSEs are great bows, but you haven't spent the time necessary tuning and shooting the new Hoyt to make a valid comparison, and neither has anyone else on here.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Oh I’m sure it’s going to tune extremely easy but so does a lot of other bows .the RX-1 is a extremely nice bow if it was priced to match it performance and weight .


THE ELKMAN said:


> No doubt the PSEs are great bows, but you haven't spent the time necessary tuning and shooting the new Hoyt to make a valid comparison, and neither has anyone else on here.


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## cuttingedge (Feb 19, 2005)

Well here's a little joke for ya...

The Diamond Deploy SB is lighter, faster, and provides a nicer shooting experience than any Hoyt I have ever shot. The Deploy SB is around $500 new bare bow. Buy a camo one and a black one and still have less invested in bows than one new carbon Hoyt.

Wait! I'm not joking. I do like the Evolve cams on the PSE's though.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> No doubt the PSEs are great bows, but you haven't spent the time necessary tuning and shooting the new Hoyt to make a valid comparison, and neither has anyone else on here.


You still have to manipulate the yokes, correct?


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

spike camp said:


> My guess would be that the finish work is done domestically, and just the raw risers are outsourced.
> Either way....reports are that the finish is subpar on the new Hoyts which is unacceptable regardless of price...
> That said,I'd wadger the Hoyt carbon is a very difficult bow to get a clean film dip .


The finish was horrible on ones I've handled. Hoyt NEEDS to find a way to do better at this. But, then again if they do, they'll charge another $200.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

whack n stack said:


> The finish was horrible on ones I've handled. Hoyt NEEDS to find a way to do better at this. But, then again if they do, they'll charge another $200.


Great idea. Real Finish upcahrge $200. They can put on more " pro staffers " with the windfall.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

0nepin said:


> Oh I’m sure it’s going to tune extremely easy but so does a lot of other bows .the RX-1 is a extremely nice bow if it was priced to match it performance and weight .


why are you so upset about the price of hoyt carbon bows? You wouldn't buy one anyways.
No one is crying over the carbon stealth price. 
I believe the dealer cost for both brands of carbon bows is the same or really close.
The bottom line is the cost will never go down unless morons like me stop buying them.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

zekezoe said:


> why are you so upset about the price of hoyt carbon bows? You wouldn't buy one anyways.
> No one is crying over the carbon stealth price.
> I believe the dealer cost for both brands of carbon bows is the same or really close.
> The bottom line is the cost will never go down unless morons like me stop buying them.



Can't speak for onepin....but in regards to cost,there is actually quite a difference.
You can contact any online PSE dealer and get a good price on a Stealth,shipped to your door....zero taxes.
You simply can't do that with companies like Hoyt.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

spike camp said:


> You still have to manipulate the yokes, correct?


Yep with a caviat


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

cuttingedge said:


> Well here's a little joke for ya...
> 
> The Diamond Deploy SB is lighter, faster, and provides a nicer shooting experience than any Hoyt I have ever shot. The Deploy SB is around $500 new bare bow. Buy a camo one and a black one and still have less invested in bows than one new carbon Hoyt.
> 
> Wait! I'm not joking. I do like the Evolve cams on the PSE's though.


LOl but it is not a Carbon riser, has some carbon in it but then everything does


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## rsavo (Oct 27, 2016)

I haven't shot either bow yet but they both sound like really nice bows. As usual you have to shoot each and decide witch one feels best for you. I think the bigger debate is between the RX1 and the Hyperforce. People are saying good things about the Hyperforce especially comparing the $$


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## rsavo (Oct 27, 2016)

***Grizz*** said:


> Those Pse carbons would look great kolorfused with asat camo....these are the only pse bows that have interested me the last two years....Grizz


I'm interested in the ASAT camo myself. I don't own any but it seems legit. I have been going to the lighter toned camo lately and will soon pick up some ASAT. I think it would look awesome on a Bow! Good thought!


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

spike camp said:


> Can't speak for onepin....but in regards to cost,there is actually quite a difference.
> You can contact any online PSE dealer and get a good price on a Stealth,shipped to your door....zero taxes.
> You simply can't do that with companies like Hoyt.


did not know that you could order pse online. I stand corrected.


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## cuttingedge (Feb 19, 2005)

ravensgait said:


> LOl but it is not a Carbon riser, has some carbon in it but then everything does


What is the percentage of carbon in the Deploy SB riser? If it's not carbon then clue me in on the breakdown...

If it's plastic and is lighter, faster, and provides a better shooting experience... don't need to say anything else.


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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

The grip and balance on the Hoyt are nice and it shoots nice. I don't care a lick about hand shock. It is actually a really nice bow, but I wouldn't pay $1600 for it. 

The real kicker for me is that Hoyt has been using the same tired hybrid cam system for so many years now. 

I mean come on... Even mathews updated to a fully slaved system.


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

Hoyt is slightly behind in the performance category, but WAY ahead in the marketing category. 
They have the vast majority of social media hunters shooting Hoyt’s. A lot of the hunting shows are shooting Hoyt’s, and cam Hanes has his own.

Marketing and sponsorship is where they shine!


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

cuttingedge said:


> What is the percentage of carbon in the Deploy SB riser? If it's not carbon then clue me in on the breakdown...
> 
> If it's plastic and is lighter, faster, and provides a better shooting experience... don't need to say anything else.


LMAO,,,,,,,, having to go off memory here and I have no idea of the percentage but then no riser is 100% carbon. It has been talked about here in the past but these are injection molded Thermoplastic with carbon fiber added to the mix I believe. Been issues with a few IE bending, was a thread here recently with pictures . I rather like the Bowtech riser light weight and good looking but not as strong as PSE and Hoyt's risers . Only thing I can say I really don't like about the Bowtech version of the carbon bow is they suck at their long draw length, I found them and other BT bows kind of harsh . If they were longer AtoA and had a better draw I'd own one, OK the draw is the big issue to me .....


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## lee31 (Nov 5, 2007)

0nepin said:


> I bet you have a hoyt tramp stamp .


Just like your PSE tat? All you do is bash every bow that's not a PSE. I'm glad you like your PSE but what are they doing that's so much better? Copying Elite with Dual riser cages and high let off bows? That according to them just a couple years ago with their videos weren't worth a crap and inaccurate. So they pretty much make a high let off version of Darton binary system and their spin on Elites dual cage riser and suddenly they are doing things that no other company has. How about instead of bashing every other brand just be happy that there are so many good choices. Or maybe go hunting or something.


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

I love this whole thread!!!
“My bow is better than your bow!”
They are all good. End of story.
It’s the man who gets off his fat butt and climbs the mountain that might get to shoot his bow at an animal... 


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I have already bought one Hoyt carbon bow .with that said if this new hoyt was closer to 3 lbs It would be a strong consideration to take on a mountain goat hunt but when you save a pound on another bow in the same price range it would be a no brainer or if 4lbs is no issue it would be a no brainer to save $600 and get an aluminum bow.now I understand that’s there fanboys that must spend the $$$ to get the latest and greatest hoyt and that good and some people need to spend the extra $$$$ to keep there hands warmer .im a auto technician and have Man hands so that has never been an issue at all for me .like I have said the RX-1 is a very nice bow but it’s definitely not any better than bows that have been out for awhile now .. .


zekezoe said:


> why are you so upset about the price of hoyt carbon bows? You wouldn't buy one anyways.
> No one is crying over the carbon stealth price.
> I believe the dealer cost for both brands of carbon bows is the same or really close.
> The bottom line is the cost will never go down unless morons like me stop buying them.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

This thread is hilarious 


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

0nepin said:


> I have already bought one Hoyt carbon bow .with that said if this new hoyt was closer to 3 lbs It would be a strong consideration to take on a mountain goat hunt but when you save a pound on another bow in the same price range it would be a no brainer or if 4lbs is no issue it would be a no brainer to save $600 and get an aluminum bow.now I understand that’s there fanboys that must spend the $$$ to get the latest and greatest hoyt and that good and some people need to spend the extra $$$$ to keep there hands warmer .im a auto technician and have Man hands so that has never been an issue at all for me .like I have said the RX-1 is a very nice bow but it’s definitely not any better than bows that have been out for awhile now .. .


i am jealous, no mountain goat plans for myself.


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

0nepin said:


> I have already bought one Hoyt carbon bow .with that said if this new hoyt was closer to 3 lbs It would be a strong consideration to take on a mountain goat hunt but when you save a pound on another bow in the same price range it would be a no brainer or if 4lbs is no issue it would be a no brainer to save $600 and get an aluminum bow.now I understand that’s there fanboys that must spend the $$$ to get the latest and greatest hoyt and that good and some people need to spend the extra $$$$ to keep there hands warmer .im a auto technician and have Man hands so that has never been an issue at all for me .like I have said the RX-1 is a very nice bow but it’s definitely not any better than bows that have been out for awhile now .. .


Nailed it!! 


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

spike camp said:


> You still have to manipulate the yokes, correct?


Yes. But with the new lower system this bow is ridiculously straight.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

0nepin said:


> Oh I’m sure it’s going to tune extremely easy but so does a lot of other bows .the RX-1 is a extremely nice bow if it was priced to match it performance and weight .


It will match it in performance when compared at "true" draw lengths, brace, and axle to axles. And as far as weight: That is subjective, everyone I know that knows anything about accuracy is actually excited about the weight coming in around 4 pounds on the 35. These bows are STIFF STIFF STIFF. Let's see how the PSE carbons are doing in year 7,8 and 9. I know A LOT of guys that are still stroking original Matrix's with the C.guard and slaughtering everything that walks and breaths with no issues... JS (and some of those Matrix's look like they've been through Vietnam)


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I don’t know about you but if I’m heading up a mountain carrying a bow with attached quiver loaded with heavy arrows ,sight and stabilizer I want as light as bow as I can get to start with , 4lbs is about right for a tree stand bow but there a lot of 4lb bows out there .just saying


THE ELKMAN said:


> It will match it in performance when compared at "true" draw lengths, brace, and axle to axles. And as far as weight: That is subjective, everyone I know that knows anything about accuracy is actually excited about the weight coming in around 4 pounds on the 35. These bows are STIFF STIFF STIFF. Let's see how the PSE carbons are doing in year 7,8 and 9. I know A LOT of guys that are still stroking original Matrix's with the C.guard and slaughtering everything that walks and breaths with no issues... JS (and some of those Matrix's look like they've been through Vietnam)


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## ColoradoHunter (Nov 20, 2006)

spike camp said:


> Can't speak for onepin....but in regards to cost,there is actually quite a difference.
> You can contact any online PSE dealer and get a good price on a Stealth,shipped to your door....zero taxes.
> You simply can't do that with companies like Hoyt.


As of 1 October PSE Dealers are no longer allowed to sell new 2018 Pro Series bows online via any means, online stores, Ebay, amazon, forums ect. The one exception is selected dealers authorized by PSE can sell the target line Pro series online. All Pro Series Vapor and Evolve series bows are available in pro shops only.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

ColoradoHunter said:


> As of 1 October PSE Dealers are no longer allowed to sell new 2018 Pro Series bows online via any means, online stores, Ebay, amazon, forums ect. The one exception is selected dealers authorized by PSE can sell the target line Pro series online. All Pro Series Vapor and Evolve series bows are available in pro shops only.


Yikes...obviously news to me.
That's a bummer.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

0nepin said:


> I don’t know about you but if I’m heading up a mountain carrying a bow with attached quiver loaded with heavy arrows ,sight and stabilizer I want as light as bow as I can get to start with , 4lbs is about right for a tree stand bow but there a lot of 4lb bows out there .just saying


https://www.camofire.com/?trk_msg=Q...ly+Shooter&utm_content=Daily+Shooter+10302017

There you can get all you want CHEAP! Maybe their sales aren't as great you think... LOL


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> https://www.camofire.com/?trk_msg=Q...ly+Shooter&utm_content=Daily+Shooter+10302017
> 
> There you can get all you want CHEAP! Maybe their sales aren't as great you think... LOL


It looks like those are all sold out actually. Judging by the little progress bars. 

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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

Ingo said:


> It looks like those are all sold out actually. Judging by the little progress bars.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yep. On a bargain blow out website! LOL! Funny... I don't see any Hoyts on there...JS


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

ColoradoHunter said:


> As of 1 October PSE Dealers are no longer allowed to sell new 2018 Pro Series bows online via any means, online stores, Ebay, amazon, forums ect. The one exception is selected dealers authorized by PSE can sell the target line Pro series online. All Pro Series Vapor and Evolve series bows are available in pro shops only.


This won't work^^^ ___ PSEs high line just can't hold up under those rules. You will see little or no enforcement on said "rules". As you can see here... https://www.camofire.com/?trk_msg=Q...ly+Shooter&utm_content=Daily+Shooter+10302017


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Yep. On a bargain blow out website! LOL! Funny... I don't see any Hoyts on there...JS


I don't know if you're making the point you think you're making. But good for Hoyt. I'm glad they're always the pinnacle of archery innovation. Where would we be without a strong leader like that? 

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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Yep. On a bargain blow out website! LOL! Funny... I don't see any Hoyts on there...JS


2 of those 3 are discontinued bows that you can no longer order through pse.....They have blown out old models to places like camo fire for years. Nothing new. Hoyt has a stick up their @$$ and won't give a discount or sell bow cheap to blow them out for anything...they don't make the quantities of bows PSE does and it shows when you have to wait 3-9 months to get one of their new bows every year...


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Yes. But with the new lower system this bow is ridiculously straight.


The one I tested supports your claim.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

sneak1413 said:


> 2 of those 3 are discontinued bows that you can no longer order through pse.....They have blown out old models to places like camo fire for years. Nothing new. Hoyt has a stick up their @$$ and won't give a discount or sell bow cheap to blow them out for anything...they don't make the quantities of bows PSE does and it shows when you have to wait 3-9 months to get one of their new bows every year...


Come on dude. Don't get all butt hurt. I'm just messing around. PSE is FINALLY producing some good products after 30 years in business. They are very good bows right now, and I would have no issues shooting one. It's just funny to watch the few PSE guys really get all twisted up. Who cares what I think, or anyone else in regards to what you or anyone else shoots. I know I don't. It's a Dodge, Ford, Chevy thing... (Notice I put Dodge first...):wink:


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

sneak1413 said:


> 2 of those 3 are discontinued bows that you can no longer order through pse.....They have blown out old models to places like camo fire for years. Nothing new. Hoyt has a stick up their @$$ and won't give a discount or sell bow cheap to blow them out for anything...they don't make the quantities of bows PSE does and it shows when you have to wait 3-9 months to get one of their new bows every year...


He's just funning !!
You can find Hoyts for Blowout prices just look at fleabay and on sites like that one at times .
Heck last month everywhere you looked there were Bowtech Carbon bows


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

I can’t believe you put dodge first in your list!!! I’m seriously offended. 


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

Well I'm going to shoot the hoyt today. The owner of the shop said that the pse rep told him they are having issues with the paint on the carbon air stealth and won't ship them until it's perfect.. Another shop further away has the stealth but not the hoyts... fml... I can't win. They are making it real hard to take my money.... 

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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

And unfortunately for me, that is a hell of alot of money... the closer guy said i can come back and do a video review of the hoyt vs pse when he gets it in. So that is cool at least. Only problem is, what if I like the pse better? I'd probably have to take a $400 hit and sell it on here . He is charging $1,550 plus 8.75% NY sales tax... I couldn't get close to that on here. Maybe ebay but they rape ya in fees

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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Come on dude. Don't get all butt hurt. I'm just messing around. PSE is FINALLY producing some good products after 30 years in business. They are very good bows right now, and I would have no issues shooting one. It's just funny to watch the few PSE guys really get all twisted up. Who cares what I think, or anyone else in regards to what you or anyone else shoots. I know I don't. It's a Dodge, Ford, Chevy thing... (Notice I put Dodge first...):wink:


Honestly, I'm surprised that you aren't a Toyota guy. Chevy and Toyota are the Matthews and Hoyt of pickups (Hoyt being Toyota for obvious reasons). 

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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

Lmao ^^^^ 
What would pse be? I guess Ford... but at least we can compare the stealth to a Ford raptor, haha

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## paarchhntr (Dec 21, 2005)

Ingo said:


> Honestly, I'm surprised that you aren't a Toyota guy. Chevy and Toyota are the Matthews and Hoyt of pickups (Hoyt being a Toyota *Prius* for obvious reasons).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Fixed it for you.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

pseshooter84 said:


> Lmao ^^^^
> What would pse be? I guess Ford... but at least we can compare the stealth to a Ford raptor, haha
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I kinda think PSE is Dodge. They could be Ford. Dodge puts a lot of effort into the muscle car/truck image. 

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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Yep. On a bargain blow out website! LOL! Funny... I don't see any Hoyts on there...JS


Go to Huntoftheday.com. Hoyt’s on sale there for $149. Can’t beat that price!


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## co_golfer28 (Nov 21, 2014)

I wish they would have kept the riser design for this years Carbon Air. Think that looked sweet!


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

co_golfer28 said:


> I wish they would have kept the riser design for this years Carbon Air. Think that looked sweet!


Agreed, the bridged riser looks better.
Makes you wonder though, how they did away with the bridged design yet made the '18 riser 'stiffer and stronger' and kept the weight the same.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

spike camp said:


> Agreed, the bridged riser looks better.
> Makes you wonder though, how they did away with the bridged design yet made the '18 riser 'stiffer and stronger' and kept the weight the same.


The weakest point is the grip and it has been said that the grip area is a little thicker in the direction the arrow points. also it is a little thicker up near the limb pocket area as well as the cross section geometry is different and all of that can yield a stiffer design.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Lol that’s about right


paarchhntr said:


> Fixed it for you.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

spike camp said:


> Agreed, the bridged riser looks better.
> Makes you wonder though, how they did away with the bridged design yet made the '18 riser 'stiffer and stronger' and kept the weight the same.


They WILL regret going away from the bridged riser on these. I would take a last years Carbon Air ASAP if you are in the market.


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

THE ELKMAN said:


> They WILL regret going away from the bridged riser on these. I would take a last years Carbon Air ASAP if you are in the market.


Perhaps the structure of the new riser, thicker in some areas, the hard lines, may add to the strength necessary.

But I don't see it, I agree, I think it's one main reason why we'll probably never see a carbon riser from Mathews. A bridge is necessary.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

THE ELKMAN said:


> They WILL regret going away from the bridged riser on these. I would take a last years Carbon Air ASAP if you are in the market.


I like the Stealth looks better, main reason cable slide flex rod is very adjustable ..but I still have to try the stealth's grip and see
if I can deal with it...


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Perhaps the structure of the new riser, thicker in some areas, the hard lines, may add to the strength necessary.
> 
> But I don't see it, I agree, I think it's one main reason why we'll probably never see a carbon riser from Mathews. A bridge is necessary.


You really think that's the case? 

You think PSE would stake their future on a design that's not going to work? 

Truth is all those cheap bows they blow through Cabelas, Bass Pro, internet retailers, etc. pay for them to develop processes that advance their tech. And Hoyt has found a riser design that works and hasn't jumped off of it and it makes them look stagnant to the non-Hoyt homers. 

I like MY PSE bow but I'm no PSE homer. I really like Hoyt bows, too. I would love to try out an XXL or the new Hyperedge equivalent. I think I like it better than the PerformX 3D. But to me it looks like PSE is getting innovations to market on their bows faster than the others right now. 





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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

Ingo said:


> You really think that's the case?
> 
> You think PSE would stake their future on a design that's not going to work?
> 
> ...


They've done it before (GX) Just sayin... Same reason too. Didn't want to pay the royalties. (Not sure why, everything they've had for the last 10 years came from Darlington)


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> They've done it before (GX) Just sayin... Same reason too. Didn't want to pay the royalties. (Not sure why, everything they've had for the last 10 years came from Darlington)


Everything Hoyt is built on came from Darlington and other manufacturers. Which is wonderful because the hybrid cam has been the most successful system and Hoyt has done it very well for a long-long time. 

You like the Darton bows? I'm not a huge fan of their risers, tbh. 

I'm glad that companies like Hoyt and PSE can use their mega-budgets to bring attractive bows to market with the best tech. I said it in another thread that I HOPE PSE is doing it on the level (looks pretty ambiguous), regardless, they are definitely taking good designs and maximizing them. 



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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

Ingo said:


> Everything Hoyt is built on came from Darlington and other manufacturers. Which is wonderful because the hybrid cam has been the most successful system and Hoyt has done it very well for a long-long time.
> 
> You like the Darton bows? I'm not a huge fan of their risers, tbh.
> 
> ...


All true


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

I hope it's not the case. The Stealth is very appealing to me. I like the fact that the grip is not as offset and I don't like the bridge riser look too much, though it's very effective at doing what it was designed for. 
I'll give it a solid year and probably try to pick up a stealth used....if they're available on the used market. 

Don't see many CA34's available as it is now.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Don't see many CA34's available as it is now.


That's fershur. 

I was hoping they'd trend like other PSE bows and you'd see them all the time for 50%+ less than new. Not the case, so far. 

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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

GVDocHoliday said:


> I hope it's not the case. The Stealth is very appealing to me. I like the fact that the grip is not as offset and I don't like the bridge riser look too much, though it's very effective at doing what it was designed for.
> I'll give it a solid year and probably try to pick up a stealth used....if they're available on the used market.
> 
> Don't see many CA34's available as it is now.


Carbon airs are on flea bay, new and used at discount prices. Even some 34s though not near as many . Was thinking about picking one up maybe


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

Will be interesting what I end up with between the Carbon Stealth and the RX-1. Really like the Evolve cams on the PSE side but really like the Hoyt grip, looks and balance. 

Tough choice this year for my next Carbon bow. 


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

My thoughts exactly.


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## MRHighCountry (Oct 25, 2017)

Have to see how they tune up and shoot. I definitely won't be the first buying either bow though.


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## hunts one (Feb 5, 2012)

Called my local dealer, Hoyt at $1599.00.
Think I'll keep my G3 and look at the Xpedite.

I just can't see $1599 for a bare bow, just me I guess.


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## adr1601 (Oct 15, 2012)

hunts one said:


> Called my local dealer, Hoyt at $1599.00.
> Think I'll keep my G3 and look at the Xpedite.
> 
> I just can't see $1599 for a bare bow, just me I guess.


Bought a new CD for $1500 and 3 months later had a really hard time selling it for $900. 
I'll be looking at these bows used in the classifieds around April.
Lesson learned.


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## M. Johnwell (Sep 9, 2017)

All of these bows are way too much for me, so I don’t have a horse in this fight, but does anyone know why Hoyt went away from the AirShox with the rx-1? Just seems weird to me that they push it for a few years and then drop it.


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## ShootnBlind (Sep 28, 2017)

spike camp said:


> Elkman has to justify that pink Hoyt tramp stamp he got a few years back....at all costs!


lmfao


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## c_rob04 (Jul 19, 2011)

Anyone else shot the Rx-1 and if so, what do you think?


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## dcopher (Jul 13, 2015)

c_rob04 said:


> Anyone else shot the Rx-1 and if so, what do you think?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I've shot it. Really nice smooth draw, no hump at the end. Very good valley. Very little vibration. Bow is dead in the hand after the shot. Seemed to aim very well. But it is substantially heavier than the 3.9 lbs they are claiming in the literature. Read the fine print on the last page with the specs, says weights are without all rubber accessories. I am taking a postal scale down tonight to confirm weight, but the one in the shop that I shot showed 4.6 lbs with a simple whisker biscuit on it and nothing else. For reference, the PSE Stealth was 3.5 lbs on the scale with the same rest installed.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

M. Johnwell said:


> All of these bows are way too much for me, so I don’t have a horse in this fight, but does anyone know why Hoyt went away from the AirShox with the rx-1? Just seems weird to me that they push it for a few years and then drop it.


They haven’t had Air Shox for a couple years now


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## M. Johnwell (Sep 9, 2017)

ex-wolverine said:


> They haven’t had Air Shox for a couple years now


Shoot, you’re right. Carry on.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

MRHighCountry said:


> Have to see how they tune up and shoot. I definitely won't be the first buying either bow though.


The RX-1 tunes incredible, very easy, and straight forward.(Back to normal for Hoyt) The PSE also tunes awesome, just depends if you prefer tuning with shims or yokes. The Hoyt risers are 100% proven at this point. I for one would be VERY hesitant to buy one of the new non bridged risers from PSE. JMO


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## ShootnBlind (Sep 28, 2017)

nontypical225 said:


> I was able to shoot both of the carbon offerings. I will state up front I am a Hoyt fan as they just seem to fit me. That said I am going to do my best to give you an honest opinion on both!
> 
> The PSE won hands down on the draw cycle, it is silky smooth! the PSE also won for noise and how smooth it was on the shot. It seems to be a great bow! The thing I didn't like where the let off, the grip and string angle. All of these are really a personal thing, I dont like a bow a feel like I have to push to let down and i like a longer ATA bow and the standard wood hoyt grip (again personal choice and not a knock on the manufacturer). Just my personal opinion but the PSE does look as nice to me as the Hoyt does.
> 
> ...


Well said! You should do more reviews.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

The RX-1s are super straight and level to tune, and as always easy as pie with the yokes. On the speeds on the RX-1 line: They are faster than the Nitrum line and Spyder line, which were significantly faster than the Defiant line. They gained a lot of efficiency with this limb, cam, and riser geometry combo. They don't say where, but so far my guess is the limb length/angle combination and some cam. I really prefer the draw cycle on these new cams to the DFX and even the Z5. And with the new lower let off option being achieved by putting on larger draw stops means I can get the let off I prefer (75%) and shorten the valley at the same time. Also very desirable for good holding and accuracy. All these companies are going over board with the let off, and the valley. We can thank the dopes over at Elite for that mess. LOL


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

That’s interesting.it did feel heavier than 3.9 to me but I had no scale to check it .


dcopher said:


> I've shot it. Really nice smooth draw, no hump at the end. Very good valley. Very little vibration. Bow is dead in the hand after the shot. Seemed to aim very well. But it is substantially heavier than the 3.9 lbs they are claiming in the literature. Read the fine print on the last page with the specs, says weights are without all rubber accessories. I am taking a postal scale down tonight to confirm weight, but the one in the shop that I shot showed 4.6 lbs with a simple whisker biscuit on it and nothing else. For reference, the PSE Stealth was 3.5 lbs on the scale with the same rest installed.


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## SlinginZ7 (Feb 22, 2010)

THE ELKMAN said:


> The RX-1s are super straight and level to tune, and as always easy as pie with the yokes. On the speeds on the RX-1 line: They are faster than the Nitrum line and Spyder line, which were significantly faster than the Defiant line. They gained a lot of efficiency with this limb, cam, and riser geometry combo. They don't say where, but so far my guess is the limb length/angle combination and some cam. I really prefer the draw cycle on these new cams to the DFX and even the Z5. And with the new lower let off option being achieved by putting on larger draw stops means I can get the let off I prefer (75%) and shorten the valley at the same time. Also very desirable for good holding and accuracy. All these companies are going over board with the let off, and the valley. We can thank the dopes over at Elite for that mess. LOL


I have setup 2 of them. Both setup and tuned great. However they did not meet IBO speed ratings.

RX1 29/72 with a 442 gr arrow at 294 FPS
RX1 28/71.5 with a 459 gr arrow at 276 FPS


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

0nepin said:


> That’s interesting.it did feel heavier than 3.9 to me but I had no scale to check it .


Well, there's literally weights on the bottom right? I'd imagine if a guy was going to put stabilizer(s) on to get the balance they desire they'd remove those, anyhow. 

I like the bows reaction at the shot that the videos have been showing. Looks very neutral like I might not have to run a stabilizer if I were hunting with it. 



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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

SlinginZ7 said:


> I have setup 2 of them. Both setup and tuned great. However they did not meet IBO speed ratings.
> 
> RX1 29/72 with a 442 gr arrow at 294 FPS
> RX1 28/71.5 with a 459 gr arrow at 276 FPS


With 20 grains on the string that is about 338 correct? Better than most have reported.


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## SlinginZ7 (Feb 22, 2010)

I figured it off 15 grains in my calculator and came up with 336 and 335 respectively. I’d say 335-338 is an accurate IBO. Hate it took a 6” BH to get it there though when a 7” BH Carbon Defiant is only a few FPS slower. 


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

A person has to ask themselves 

What is the advantage of a Carbon bow if it don’t weigh less than it’s aluminum counter part ? 

What would be the justification of spending 500 more bucks on a bow that don’t offer much more than maybe a different feel on the shot and a riser that don’t feel colder 

That’s really what it boils down to , if both PSE and Hoyt bows tune and shoot well , the only discriminator would be weight ?


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

ex-wolverine said:


> That’s really what it boils down to , if both PSE and Hoyt bows tune and shoot well , the only discriminator would be weight ?


Well, that and extreme brand bias and a belief that more $$$$ is always better. "You get what you pay for" 

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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Ingo said:


> Well, that and extreme brand bias and a belief that more $$$$ is always better. "You get what you pay for"
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Tru dat


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Yes we really have a problem with the concept of diminishing returns in the archery industry


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

trial153 said:


> Yes we really have a problem with the concept of diminishing returns in the archery industry


To be honest, I think archery is in a great place, at the moment. I think we're in the heyday right now. It can be enjoyed by blue-collar and white-collar folks pretty equally. 

I know a guy with a bunch of money who buys a brand new TOTL bow fully setup with TOTL sights, rest, stab, and new arrows every season. When the new bows come out the shop has his new one ready to go. He sells his previous year bow to a client fully loaded arrows and all (and they give him ridiculous money). 

I don't feel like he enjoys his bow more than my 2 year old bow I bought used with sights I bought used and a rest I bought used. He's not a gear guy, really. He just gets whatever is "the best" to him and never worries about it. 

This industry works for most anyone right now. 



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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

That what I have been asking myself


ex-wolverine said:


> A person has to ask themselves
> 
> What is the advantage of a Carbon bow if it don’t weigh less than it’s aluminum counter part ?
> 
> ...


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## Tiggie_00 (Jul 18, 2009)

Remember a Carbon riser is not 100% carbon.. The ends of the riser are aluminum. So only 50% carbon.. lol



ex-wolverine said:


> A person has to ask themselves
> 
> What is the advantage of a Carbon bow if it don’t weigh less than it’s aluminum counter part ?
> 
> ...


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## eyeguy (Feb 5, 2008)

50 percent? Come on its gotta be closer to 65!! Ha


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

Weight is definitely not the only difference between the two


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## dcopher (Jul 13, 2015)

ontarget7 said:


> Weight is definitely not the only difference between the two
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Care to elaborate a little? I haven't had time to shoot them side by side much yet, let alone look at the tuning aspects. I just feel it's a little misleading to put 3.9 lbs in your advertising when that is not even close to what they weigh. I can see being off by a little, but this is looking like about 1/2 pound, which is pretty substantial. Both bows shoot really nice, I am impressed by both of them so far, but if you're looking for a lightweight bow with a fantastic cam system, the PSE wins handily.


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## Captjock (Oct 16, 2009)

ex-wolverine said:


> A person has to ask themselves
> 
> What is the advantage of a Carbon bow if it don’t weigh less than it’s aluminum counter part ?
> 
> ...


How about stiffness, accuracy and warmth? Also, most shooters add weight to a bow that is real light, so?


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

If a carbon Riser bow was inherently more accurate with the same specifications as an aluminum riser bow, then every Pro with money on the line would be shooting them.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

trial153 said:


> If a carbon Riser bow was inherently more accurate with the same specifications as an aluminum riser bow, then every Pro with money on the line would be shooting them.


This is getting tiresome. I wonder if the debates were like this when the Matrix debuted?

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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Captjock said:


> How about stiffness, accuracy and warmth? Also, most shooters add weight to a bow that is real light, so?


Have you looked at this years specs Carbon vs alum weight before you quoted me ?


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Yep that the truth .there defenitly no accuracy advantage.


trial153 said:


> If a carbon Riser bow was inherently more accurate with the same specifications as an aluminum riser bow, then every Pro with money on the line would be shooting them.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Maybe next year somebody will make an aluminum bow with just the grip section covered in carbon and keep the weight around 3.5lbs .you could just about do that with a pse decree ic .that way you could have a light bow that won’t freeze your hands and stay under $1000.


eyeguy said:


> 50 percent? Come on its gotta be closer to 65!! Ha


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## Captjock (Oct 16, 2009)

A stiffer riser can be more accurate , target risers are stiffer because of design.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I have pressed many hoyt carbons and there doesn’t seem to much of a difference with most new aluminum bows


Captjock said:


> A stiffer riser can be more accurate , target risers are stiffer because of design.


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## c_rob04 (Jul 19, 2011)

0nepin said:


> That’s interesting.it did feel heavier than 3.9 to me but I had no scale to check it .


I’m used to a halon so didn’t seem like 4.6 lbs to me cause thats close to the halon weight. But that’s just me. 


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

dcopher said:


> Care to elaborate a little? I haven't had time to shoot them side by side much yet, let alone look at the tuning aspects. I just feel it's a little misleading to put 3.9 lbs in your advertising when that is not even close to what they weigh. I can see being off by a little, but this is looking like about 1/2 pound, which is pretty substantial. Both bows shoot really nice, I am impressed by both of them so far, but if you're looking for a lightweight bow with a fantastic cam system, the PSE wins handily.


A few things off hand to consider and I’m not swayed one way or another just yet. 

To Hoyt’s defense:
1) Grip is great. This can lead to a more forgiving bow depending on the archer
2) They are more fine tuneable with a top yoke still in the system
3) The new floating yoke and adding a 3rd track at the right location minimizes later nock travel throughout the draw cycle. It also appears to be consistent throughout the different draw lengths, so you probably won’t find the need to change cam spacer configuration 
4) You don’t have to mess with limb sequence when fine tuning if things aren’t coming together. 

With that said, I like how Lightweight the PSE Stealth is and like the Evolve cams. 
As good as the Evolve cam system is I feel it could be improved if you were to incorporate fine tuning lateral nock travel by way of limb adjustments at the pocket. 
This would eliminate the need for all the limb sequence changes or cam spacer changes. 

Now for the Carbon Riser vs an Aluminum riser if both were the same weight. 

The Carbon riser is much stiffer making a tighter tolerance bow in regards to lateral nock travel and riser flex. I find the bows with less lateral nock travel hold better on target. This makes a bow easier to shoot to the archer shot after shot with less fatigue. 


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

if PSE don't make a 2 piece quiver for the Stealth, I might just have to put one of the new Hoyt Carbon quivers on my Stealth


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## TheKingofKings (Sep 25, 2006)

SlinginZ7 said:


> I have setup 2 of them. Both setup and tuned great. However they did not meet IBO speed ratings.
> 
> RX1 29/72 with a 442 gr arrow at 294 FPS
> RX1 28/71.5 with a 459 gr arrow at 276 FPS


Saw a video on youtube with a 28/70 rx1 with nothing on the string shoot a 420 something arrow 289. So your findings are right there.


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

bigbucks170 said:


> if PSE don't make a 2 piece quiver for the Stealth, I might just have to put one of the new Hoyt Carbon quivers on my Stealth


They make a 2 piece quiver for the Stealth. They don't show it on their web-site, but it is in the paper catalog. I had to ask my rep.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Super 91 said:


> They make a 2 piece quiver for the Stealth. They don't show it on their web-site, but it is in the paper catalog. I had to ask my rep.


I don't see any holes in the riser for mounting the two piece quivers ..how do they mount them?


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## dcopher (Jul 13, 2015)

ontarget7 said:


> A few things off hand to consider and I’m not swayed one way or another just yet.
> 
> To Hoyt’s defense:
> 1) Grip is great. This can lead to a more forgiving bow depending on the archer
> ...



Thank you, well said. I think both bows are great and it will be fun to shoot them more side by side to see which I like better. I think it is a little dishonest of Hoyt to post such blatantly false weights on their bows, but maybe the one they have at my shop is an anomaly. I weighed both bows again last night before league on a postal scale. Both bows were weighed with a basic Whisker Biscuit rest. Hoyt RX-1 weighed 4 lbs 7.8 ounces, PSE Carbon Air Stealth weighed 3 lbs 8.2 ounces. Almost exactly a pound difference.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

dcopher said:


> Thank you, well said. I think both bows are great and it will be fun to shoot them more side by side to see which I like better. I think it is a little dishonest of Hoyt to post such blatantly false weights on their bows, but maybe the one they have at my shop is an anomaly. I weighed both bows again last night before league on a postal scale. Both bows were weighed with a basic Whisker Biscuit rest. Hoyt RX-1 weighed 4 lbs 7.8 ounces, PSE Carbon Air Stealth weighed 3 lbs 8.2 ounces. Almost exactly a pound difference.



I'm not so sure Hoyt is providing false weight specs...
Mass weight is the term used and if I'm not mistaken, mass weight should be a bare bones riser.
If you remove all the rubber doodads and the biscuit, what does the Hoyt/PSE weight?

The more interesting comparison would be if you stripped all rubber stuff from a Hyperforce and a RX1 and compared those weights...


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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

dcopher said:


> Thank you, well said. I think both bows are great and it will be fun to shoot them more side by side to see which I like better. I think it is a little dishonest of Hoyt to post such blatantly false weights on their bows, but maybe the one they have at my shop is an anomaly. I weighed both bows again last night before league on a postal scale. Both bows were weighed with a basic Whisker Biscuit rest. Hoyt RX-1 weighed 4 lbs 7.8 ounces, PSE Carbon Air Stealth weighed 3 lbs 8.2 ounces. Almost exactly a pound difference.


So both bows weigh higher than their specs. PSE and Hoyt should be ashamed for blatantly posting such false weights.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

That would be an interesting comparison


spike camp said:


> I'm not so sure Hoyt is providing false weight specs...
> Mass weight is the term used and if I'm not mistaken, mass weight should be a bare bones riser.
> If you remove all the rubber doodads and the biscuit, what does the Hoyt/PSE weight?
> 
> The more interesting comparison would be if you stripped all rubber stuff from a Hyperforce and a RX1 and compared those weights...


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Unfortunately all manufacturers have been doing this way for while now


brokenlittleman said:


> So both bows weigh higher than their specs. PSE and Hoyt should be ashamed for blatantly posting such false weights.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Bow company's been lying about bow speeds for years, it isn't much of a stretch to think they would lie about mass weight. 

Obscene price increases, bull**** marketing, lies about performance, inflated IBO speeds all point to bow companies looking like a bunch of slimy greedy b******* .


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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

0nepin said:


> Unfortunately all manufacturers have been doing this way for while now


I know, its just others seem to be making such a stink about it I figured I would point it out that they all are doing it.


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

I actually feel companies as a whole have gotten much better of being accurate with speed ratings. 



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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

ontarget7 said:


> I actually feel companies as a whole have gotten much better of being accurate with speed ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So if you look at the past the ratings they haven't changed much. Its just that companies are now improving performance and getting closer to what the said previously LOL.


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

brokenlittleman said:


> So if you look at the past the ratings they haven't changed much. Its just that companies are now improving performance and getting closer to what the said previously LOL.


Hoyt’s in the past prior to z5 and DFX were for the most part over IBO

The Z5 and DFX were more on par with actual ratings.

Now you have them upping IBO to 340 which is closer to reality of cams prior to Z5’s 

Some people will piss and moan regardless 


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

You don’t see a carpenter buying a 21oz hammer and then realizing the handle makes his hammer well over 21oz. 

Why whine about things ? 
Life is really not that bad [emoji23]


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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

ontarget7 said:


> Hoyt’s in the past prior to z5 and DFX were for the most part over IBO
> 
> The Z5 and DFX were more on par with actual ratings.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. Love to shoot, period.


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

ontarget7 said:


> I actually feel companies as a whole have gotten much better of being accurate with speed ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


agreed


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

ontarget7 said:


> Hoyt’s in the past prior to z5 and DFX were for the most part over IBO
> 
> The Z5 and DFX were more on par with actual ratings.
> 
> ...


One mistake a lot of people make is saying Hoyt and IBO numbers , they post their numbers using the ATA requirements not IBO as an Example in 2010 the Alpha Burner came out with an ATA rating of 240 fps, it was close to 350 IBO. Hoyt has never used the IBO rating



ontarget7 said:


> You don’t see a carpenter buying a 21oz hammer and then realizing the handle makes his hammer well over 21oz.
> 
> Why whine about things ?
> Life is really not that bad [emoji23]
> ...


Not hauling the hammer all over hill and dale lol and it is not Gross or NET or Approximate weight lolol it is mass weight IE "In everyday usage, the mass of an object is often referred to as its weight, though these are in fact different concepts and quantities. In scientific contexts, mass refers loosely to the amount of "matter" in an object (though "matter" may be difficult to define), whereas weight refers to the force experienced by an object due to gravity. " So not a very good measure for the public to judge the weight of a Bow .

Being off one way or the other by an ounce or 2 is no big deal but that bow is way off and it isn't whining to expect them to be honest in Advertising! Oh using the words mass weight covers them legally but it is still misleading


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

It is just amazing how many industry hacks we have that will make bul**** excuses for anything


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## 4seasons69 (Sep 20, 2015)

This may be a dumb question but is there more than one version of the evolve cam? And does the stealth have the same cam as an evolve 35?

This summer I shot a lot of different bows. My honest favorite was a Halon 32. My second was a pro defiant 34 and third a prime centergy hybrid.

I shot an evolve 35 and really didn't care for it. I didn't think it was smooth drawing at all compared to the other 3 I listed above. it had a massive dump into the back wall that I just don't care for. 

I ended up with a pro defiant 34 because you can't get a Halon from the factory with 80lb limbs. And didn't get the prime because I really liked the string angle better on the defiant. I was also moving away from a carbon Spyder to the defiant. I just wanted a heavier bow. But my next will be another carbon.

I shot the rx-1 last weekend I thought it was nice. I thought it draws very similar to the dfx cam with a touch less dump into the back wall. I will very likely pick up an rx-1.

I haven't shot the stealth but I would like to.


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## dcopher (Jul 13, 2015)

spike camp said:


> I'm not so sure Hoyt is providing false weight specs...
> Mass weight is the term used and if I'm not mistaken, mass weight should be a bare bones riser.
> If you remove all the rubber doodads and the biscuit, what does the Hoyt/PSE weight?
> 
> The more interesting comparison would be if you stripped all rubber stuff from a Hyperforce and a RX1 and compared those weights...


I didn't strip the bows down. If you read the fine print, I am sure both bow companies state that weights are without rubber accessories, I know that Hoyt puts that disclaimer in very fine print on the last page of the specs. But I feel that is a little dishonest in my opinion, because who is going to strip all the dampeners off and shoot the bow bare. I just find .7 lbs a pretty substantial "fib" if you will. Not sure what a Whisker Biscuit weighs, let's just say 4 ounces for giggles, even though it is probably less than that. That puts the PSE really close to its stated weight of 3.2 lbs, maybe a couple of ounces off, but still leaves the Hoyt 1/2 lb heavier than they claim. I like both bows, they both shoot exceptionally well, I just find it interesting that the stated weight is so drastically different than the "real world" weight.


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## ColoradoHunter (Nov 20, 2006)

4seasons69 said:


> This may be a dumb question but is there more than one version of the evolve cam? And does the stealth have the same cam as an evolve 35?
> 
> This summer I shot a lot of different bows. My honest favorite was a Halon 32. My second was a pro defiant 34 and third a prime centergy hybrid.
> 
> ...


Short answer, yes the Stealth and 35 have the same cam. There are two versions of the Evolve cam. The original that came out last year is on the Evolve 31 & 35, CA Stealth, React and the Xpedite. The Evolves, React and Stealth come from the factory with the 80-90% letoff module(HL), the Xpedite comes with the FL module(fast low letoff, 65-75%). Rumor is they are going to start shipping the Xpedite with the HL module, time will tell. There is a third module, LL, that goes with this cam, 65-75%. The 2nd Evolve cam is a smaller version of the original Evolve cam(SE cam) that is on the PerformX, PerformX 3D and the Shootdown target bows. They all ship with the LL module, 65-75% letoff. There is also a HL module, 80-90% letoff available for this cam.


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## nontypical225 (Jan 4, 2009)

dcopher said:


> I didn't strip the bows down. If you read the fine print, I am sure both bow companies state that weights are without rubber accessories, I know that Hoyt puts that disclaimer in very fine print on the last page of the specs. But I feel that is a little dishonest in my opinion, because who is going to strip all the dampeners off and shoot the bow bare. I just find .7 lbs a pretty substantial "fib" if you will. Not sure what a Whisker Biscuit weighs, let's just say 4 ounces for giggles, even though it is probably less than that. That puts the PSE really close to its stated weight of 3.2 lbs, maybe a couple of ounces off, but still leaves the Hoyt 1/2 lb heavier than they claim. I like both bows, they both shoot exceptionally well, I just find it interesting that the stated weight is so drastically different than the "real world" weight.


I would venture to guess the screw that holds the whisker Biscuit weights close to the 4 OZ alone but I could be wrong


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

nontypical225 said:


> I would venture to guess the screw that holds the whisker Biscuit weights close to the 4 OZ alone but I could be wrong


You think a screw weighs 1/4 of a pound?

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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

lucky if the screw is 1/2 an ounce....


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## 4seasons69 (Sep 20, 2015)

ColoradoHunter said:


> Short answer, yes the Stealth and 35 have the same cam. There are two versions of the Evolve cam. The original that came out last year is on the Evolve 31 & 35, CA Stealth, React and the Xpedite. The Evolves, React and Stealth come from the factory with the 80-90% letoff module(HL), the Xpedite comes with the FL module(fast low letoff, 65-75%). Rumor is they are going to start shipping the Xpedite with the HL module, time will tell. There is a third module, LL, that goes with this cam, 65-75%. The 2nd Evolve cam is a smaller version of the original Evolve cam(SE cam) that is on the PerformX, PerformX 3D and the Shootdown target bows. They all ship with the LL module, 65-75% letoff. There is also a HL module, 80-90% letoff available for this cam.


Thanks for the info! I won't lie I am slightly biased towards Hoyt but definitely don't consider myself a fanboy. I have a Mathews MR6 and bought my wife a Mathews chill sdx. I will have to test out the new stealth in the near future


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

dcopher said:


> I didn't strip the bows down. If you read the fine print, I am sure both bow companies state that weights are without rubber accessories, I know that Hoyt puts that disclaimer in very fine print on the last page of the specs. But I feel that is a little dishonest in my opinion, because who is going to strip all the dampeners off and shoot the bow bare. I just find .7 lbs a pretty substantial "fib" if you will. Not sure what a Whisker Biscuit weighs, let's just say 4 ounces for giggles, even though it is probably less than that. That puts the PSE really close to its stated weight of 3.2 lbs, maybe a couple of ounces off, but still leaves the Hoyt 1/2 lb heavier than they claim. I like both bows, they both shoot exceptionally well, I just find it interesting that the stated weight is so drastically different than the "real world" weight.




I absolutely agree, the weight specs are very misleading.

Can someone name another consumer product who's specs are also misleading?

With bows...many times the weight,draw length and speed specs are all fudged which i find kinda odd.


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## nontypical225 (Jan 4, 2009)

Ingo said:


> You think a screw weighs 1/4 of a pound?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


just called it blonde moment LOL not sure what I was thinking thats what I get for posting before my morning coffee. I do have a couple extra whisker biscuits at home I will have to weigh them tonight and see how much they weigh.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Imho if weights are posted it should be the weight of the product when you take it out of the package from the manufacturer. Just think if camo trailers posted the weight of trailers before putting beds, fridge, ac, tables, chairs, etc. in it. Would make for a pretty good lawsuit when someone crashes due to have a trailer than is actually too heavy for their vehicle because it was stated that the trailer was lighter than it actually was.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

nontypical225 said:


> just called it blonde moment LOL not sure what I was thinking thats what I get for posting before my morning coffee. I do have a couple extra whisker biscuits at home I will have to weigh them tonight and see how much they weigh.


I was just thinking I hope that guy isn't making burger patties. 

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## Ragin-Cajun (Jul 2, 2013)

ontarget7 said:


> Will be interesting what I end up with between the Carbon Stealth and the RX-1. Really like the Evolve cams on the PSE side but really like the Hoyt grip, looks and balance.
> 
> Tough choice this year for my next Carbon bow.
> 
> ...


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

bigbucks170 said:


> I don't see any holes in the riser for mounting the two piece quivers ..how do they mount them?


Just verified with my PSE rep this morning, there are no mounting holes for a 2 piece quiver. I was originally told that you could put one on the bow, and had one on order my new Stealth as well. To me this really stinks as I love the solid feel and how tight you can keep your arrows to your bow with a 2 piece quiver. I guess one piece quivers are where the sales are right now, but that leaves us 2 piece guys out in the cold.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

Super 91 said:


> Just verified with my PSE rep this morning, there are no mounting holes for a 2 piece quiver. I was originally told that you could put one on the bow, and had one on order my new Stealth as well. To me this really stinks as I love the solid feel and how tight you can keep your arrows to your bow with a 2 piece quiver. I guess one piece quivers are where the sales are right now, but that leaves us 2 piece guys out in the cold.


When they put in mounting holes for anything on a Carbon riser they have to put metal there ! I would imagine it is the reason there are no holes for 2 piece quivers


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

They have mounting holes in the 2017 Carbon Air 32 ECS, because I have the PSE two piece quiver on that bow. I'm disappointed that they did not maintain this for the 2018 Stealth. I much prefer a 2 piece quiver myself.


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

Here's my take after shooting both.

Both Carbon RX-1 and Carbon Air Stealth have great draw cycles, very smooth and easy drawing, pretty much a tie. The Valley on the Carbon Stealth at 90% is a little better than the RX-1 as it should be its' 90% let-off. The valley on the RX-1 is the best valley of any Hoyt to date and I would say is similar to the Halon 32 but a little better.

Balance goes to Hoyt RX-1, unbelievable how balanced it is. Grip is waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy better on the RX-1. I owned a 2017 Carbon Air and the grip on the 2018 Carbon Stealth is much deeper/thicker very blocky. Noise level is about same, both super quiet. RX-1 has almost zero hand shock, absolutely dead in hand, while the Carbon stealth has a little bit, but better than last years. 

The Hoyts have way better camo options and look much better. The Carbon Stealth is bad [email protected]@ in Black but look like crap in camo. Both fully adjustable without a press. Both awesome bows and you can't wrong with either. You will have to shoot them for yourself and decide. For me I think I am ordering a Buckskin RX-1. I believe it's easier to tune and the grip is just soooooo much nicer. I shoot Elites and the new Hoyt grip feels very much like the older Elites. Tough decision between these two.


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## alligood729 (Mar 25, 2007)

markman said:


> Here's my take after shooting both.
> 
> Both Carbon RX-1 and Carbon Air Stealth have great draw cycles, very smooth and easy drawing, pretty much a tie. The Valley on the Carbon Stealth at 90% is a little better than the RX-1 as it should be its' 90% let-off. The valley on the RX-1 is the best valley of any Hoyt to date and I would say is similar to the Halon 32 but a little better.
> 
> ...


Where did you see one in camo?


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

Local dealer, realtree edge and Kuiu


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## alligood729 (Mar 25, 2007)

markman said:


> Local dealer, realtree edge and Kuiu


Sorry, should have clarified...you stated the Stealth looked great in black, but crappy in camo. Just wondered where you had seen one in camo...


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

I think if they weighed the hoyts without the 34 speed nocks it would come in at just under 3# [emoji51]


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Lmao !!!! It just might


ex-wolverine said:


> I think if they weighed the hoyts without the 34 speed nocks it would come in at just under 3# [emoji51]


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

I just realized Hoyt does not offer the turbo in an aluminum choice like previous years. Forcing guys to buy the carbon is not a wise decision in my view. I guess i will pass on the Hoyt's for the first time in years.


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## Adam Z (Sep 26, 2017)

spike camp said:


> I absolutely agree, the weight specs are very misleading.
> 
> Can someone name another consumer product who's specs are also misleading?
> 
> With bows...many times the weight,draw length and speed specs are all fudged which i find kinda odd.


Yes - Fishing reels. That is just one I know of personally, and I'm sure it happens with almost all items where consumers are concerned with weight where the weight does not impact the safe use of the product. Incidentally, it's interesting that with fly fishing rods there is the weight of the rods, and then there is in recent times what is called the "swing weight", which relates to how heavy the rod actually feels when in use. I'm guessing this could be similar to how a bow that is well balanced may feel lighter than it actually is.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

PSE going away from the bridge on their Carbons will prove to be a MASSIVE mistake. Wait till you see the amount of flex in the Stealth risers in your press.:mg:


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> PSE going away from the bridge on their Carbons will prove to be a MASSIVE mistake. Wait till you see the amount of flex in the Stealth risers in your press.:mg:


Oh man... 

If someone snaps one in a press you're going to die from the rush of glee you'll feel. 

Why in the world would they change the successful Carbon Air design if they couldn't figure out how to do it without a riser bridge.

You should buy one and thrash it for a year so you can REALLY talk some trash about it with authority. 



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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

Have you had the chance to press one? If so, are you saying you are seeing a major deflection?


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Says the Hoyt shill ....


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

I would be curious to see what the non “ committed” unbiased folks can objectively get out of this picture , 

Can anyone give an unbiased description that would make one bow more efficient over the other ???

Keep brands out of it and look at “All” the numbers and “harnessing” only 
I’m curious to see how folks perceive each bows specs 

And Go!


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## pseshooter84 (Jun 9, 2012)

What's the letoff on the turbo?

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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

pseshooter84 said:


> What's the letoff on the turbo?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Not sure couldn’t find it on their web site specs 

But here is another comparison of the RX 1 and the Carbon Stealth ECS

Same questions?


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

The Rx-1 feels heavier than a 3.7lb aluminum bow I shot beside it today


Adam Z said:


> Yes - Fishing reels. That is just one I know of personally, and I'm sure it happens with almost all items where consumers are concerned with weight where the weight does not impact the safe use of the product. Incidentally, it's interesting that with fly fishing rods there is the weight of the rods, and then there is in recent times what is called the "swing weight", which relates to how heavy the rod actually feels when in use. I'm guessing this could be similar to how a bow that is well balanced may feel lighter than it actually is.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Your a silly guy .


THE ELKMAN said:


> PSE going away from the bridge on their Carbons will prove to be a MASSIVE mistake. Wait till you see the amount of flex in the Stealth risers in your press.:mg:


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## CAB007 (Nov 27, 2008)

pseshooter84 said:


> What's the letoff on the turbo?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I called Hoyt the other day and the customer svc rep told me 75% on Turbo.


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## Toddk31 (Feb 11, 2007)

alligood729 said:


> Sorry, should have clarified...you stated the Stealth looked great in black, but crappy in camo. Just wondered where you had seen one in camo...


I'm guessing he did not see a Stealth in camo and just likes to talk crap. However, on the aluminum bows the Mossy Oak does look bad, but the Highlander looks great. Looks to me as if the Kryptek is a much better grade film.


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

Plan on putting some quality time behind both of these bows. 
Have both on order but I’m probably 6-8 weeks out on either one. 

I did order the SE cams for the Stealth 


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## Adam Z (Sep 26, 2017)

CAB007 said:


> I called Hoyt the other day and the customer svc rep told me 75% on Turbo.


Specs at a glance

ATA Speed 350fps
Weight range 30-40lbs, 40-50lbs, 50-60lbs, 55-65lbs, 60-70lbs. Please specify weight required.
Draw length range 26"-28", 28"-30" by draw length specific modules in half inch increments. Please specify draw length
Brace height 5.875"
Axle to Axle 32"
Mass weight 3.9lbs
Let-Off 85% and 80%. Please specify Let-Off
Zero Torque Hyper Cam


I've copied and pasted the above from somewhere that is selling the bow here in Australia. I didn't copy the entire list, just enough to get to the point. If someone at Hoyt told you that though, I'd suspect they are more likely to be correct.


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## Adam Z (Sep 26, 2017)

0nepin said:


> The Rx-1 feels heavier than a 3.7lb aluminum bow I shot beside it today


I'm not overly surprised. That bow might be 3.7lb finished weight with all the rubbers etc included, where it seems the Hoyt isn't - I'm guessing that they are only including the wight of the riser, limbs, limb pockets and cams and whatever bits hold all those things together. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't even including the wight of the strings. It's not "right", and it's frustrating, but what can we do? Without weighing different bows on the same set of scales it's all really subjective

Anyway, I ordered the HyperFoce today - even heavier! I've seen at least one person post that it barely felt heavier than the RX-1.... or something to that effect. Guess I'll find out what it's actually like when it arrives.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

Adam Z said:


> I'm not overly surprised. That bow might be 3.7lb finished weight with all the rubbers etc included, where it seems the Hoyt isn't - I'm guessing that they are only including the wight of the riser, limbs, limb pockets and cams and whatever bits hold all those things together. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't even including the wight of the strings. It's not "right", and it's frustrating, but what can we do? Without weighing different bows on the same set of scales it's all really subjective
> 
> Anyway, I ordered the HyperFoce today - even heavier! I've seen at least one person post that it barely felt heavier than the RX-1.... or something to that effect. Guess I'll find out what it's actually like when it arrives.




A Hoyt dealer told me the 32" RX1 weighs 4.3 pounds from factory and still just over 4#'s with all rubber dampeners removed.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

CAB007 said:


> I called Hoyt the other day and the customer svc rep told me 75% on Turbo.


I spoke with the Hoyt rep for our area (pretty much the whole state) and he said the same thing. The turbo’s letoff is 75%.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

spike camp said:


> A Hoyt dealer told me the 32" RX1 weighs 4.3 pounds from factory and still just over 4#'s with all rubber dampeners removed.


4.3 pounds for a carbon 1600 Bow.

I can get an evolve 31 that is also 4.3 pounds for 800 all day long .. with the evolve cam with in think is the best platform in archery right now. 
Get serious, dump Hoyt


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

ex-wolverine said:


> I would be curious to see what the non “ committed” unbiased folks can objectively get out of this picture ,
> 
> Can anyone give an unbiased description that would make one bow more efficient over the other ???
> 
> ...


Anyone ? 
Elkman??


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

ex-wolverine said:


> Not sure couldn’t find it on their web site specs
> 
> But here is another comparison of the RX 1 and the Carbon Stealth ECS
> 
> Same questions?


Side by side 
Apples to apples comparison


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

THE ELKMAN said:


> PSE going away from the bridge on their Carbons will prove to be a MASSIVE mistake. Wait till you see the amount of flex in the Stealth risers in your press.:mg:


I’m curious if you sell PSE at your shop . If so how do they feel about what you say about them ...

Does it not hurt yours sales ?


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## full moon64 (Jul 3, 2016)

battle of short brace heights


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## Adam Z (Sep 26, 2017)

4IDARCHER said:


> I spoke with the Hoyt rep for our area (pretty much the whole state) and he said the same thing. The turbo’s letoff is 75%.


Well I'd say it's definitely 75% then if Hoyt is telling people that. I find it weird the letoff isn't mentioned in the product specs on their website.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

ex-wolverine said:


> I’m curious if you sell PSE at your shop . If so how do they feel about what you say about them ...
> 
> Does it not hurt yours sales ?


I take it you disagree with my above assertion? So going away from the bridge and going to a brick style grip was an upgrade then?


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

THE ELKMAN said:


> I take it you disagree with my above assertion? So going away from the bridge and going to a brick style grip was an upgrade then?


So it’s an assertion not based on actual hands on experience with the bow ?

Got it 
Thanks


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

I actual feel the Stealth riser is stiffer with less movement throughout the draw cycle than previous bridged carbon riser. 
As for the grip ?
I feel the little wider stance is a good thing, as it seats into your thumb pad with excellent repeatability. 
Do other grips feel better ? Sure
However, that doesn’t mean that a grip that feels better will be more repeatable. I’m personally looking for the finer things that make each shot more forgiving. 
IMO, the Carbon Stealth has those qualities 


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

The Carbon Stealth is also quieter with less vibe than the RX-1 while definitely being lighter 


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> So it’s an assertion not based on actual hands on experience with the bow ?
> 
> Got it
> Thanks


Game, set...match!


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Dude give it up !!! Your hate for every other brand than hoyt is annoying.hoyt makes good bows and so does everybody else just get over it .the trick is to find the one that fits you best and that’s it nothing more .the rx-1 is a sweet bow no doubt but it’s not the best bow in any measurable way but if it fits you the best then it’s the best bow for you .


THE ELKMAN said:


> I take it you disagree with my above assertion? So going away from the bridge and going to a brick style grip was an upgrade then?


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

How much is the PSE????


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

ontarget7 said:


> The Carbon Stealth is also quieter with less vibe than the RX-1 while definitely being lighter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is incorrect and false^^^ ____ You are the ONLY one that thinks this.


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## HoosierArcher88 (Jan 10, 2013)

THE ELKMAN said:


> That is incorrect and false^^^ ____ You are the ONLY one that thinks this.


3.2#'s is lighter than 3.9#'s. As far as vibe/sound, have no experience yet to form that opinion.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

Speaking only of the vibe sound claim.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I have not shot the stealth yet but the RX-1 does have a slight vibe to it so it’s its not impossible for the stealth to have less vibe . I do know that the pse drive x has less vibe than RX-1 while being lighter and just as fast .


THE ELKMAN said:


> That is incorrect and false^^^ ____ You are the ONLY one that thinks this.


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## dcopher (Jul 13, 2015)

THE ELKMAN said:


> That is incorrect and false^^^ ____ You are the ONLY one that thinks this.


I also thought the Stealth was a just a little quieter and had less vibe on the shot. Not saying either was tuned, but that is my opinion shooting them side by side, as well as the 3 guys that were standing next to me.


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## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

-draw goes to PSE (opinion)
-noise and vibe to PSE (opinion)
-speed to PSE (fact)
-weight goes to PSE (fact)
-looks go to PSE(opinion)
-grip goes to hoyt (opinion)

And I'm a Hoyt guy, but if I could afford either I'd go with the PSE carbon series with Evolve cams.


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

ChappyHOYT said:


> -draw goes to PSE (opinion)
> -noise and vibe to PSE (opinion)
> -speed to PSE (fact)
> -weight goes to PSE (fact)
> ...


That’s my assessment so far 
I like the feel of the Hoyt grip but man the Stealth is very repeatable with bareshafts. Will do some further assessment once my personal comes in. 

For the overall weight being so light, it holds on target phenomenal. Going to make a great pack in bow in the backcountry. 


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Just basing off of what the manufacturers posted ...Take this into consideration when making your decision...

1. Shorter axle to axel bows are “almost” always faster than longer axel to axel bows...longer ATA are almost always or at least perceived to be more forging than shorter ATA and are almost always slower than shorter ATA bows ...not in this case 

2. Shorter brace height bows are almost always faster than longer brace height bows ...not in this case 

3. Speed nocks equivalent of 34 for Hoyts ...Only 6 for the stealth ????

4. Let off; more options with one brand over the other 

5. Weight of the carbon bows isn’t even close . PSE has that in the bag 

6. Adjustability of the cam system. Only one of the cam systems does it all 

If you break the bows down by the specs given to us by the manufacturer and really do an apples to apples comparison , take all the specs into consideration, a person can make a pretty good educated guess on which bow ....But you really have to break it down part by part , cam by cam , and dig into the configuration of each bow so you can somewhat see what each manufacturer has done to achieve their goals 

On paper which one would “you” choose ??


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

No question by the spec the Stealth is the superior bow .I will end up with the one that I can shoot more consistently with .I bet that will also be the stealth .


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

I think for what you get there now way the RX-1 should cost as much the stealth.that like pricing a corvette as much as the ford GT .both are badass cars but only the ford GT is a super car and only the stealth is a super bow .


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

0nepin said:


> I think for what you get there now way the RX-1 should cost as much the stealth.that like pricing a corvette as much as the ford GT .both are badass cars but only the ford GT is a super car and only the stealth is a super bow .


Sorry but I shot both and the RX-1 is a super bow!! They are both awesome bows, the Stealth is no more worth the money than the RX-1 is!!!! I'll take the RX-1!! The RX-1 I shot was stacking arrows, super accurate!! Im no fanboy either, I shoot Elite now and owned a 2017 Carbon Air ECS, now I need to shoot the new Bowtech Realm, might be better than both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

i will have to disagree.im sure you can stack arrow with even with a budget priced bow .but the riser technology is light year ahead on the stealth compared to the aluminum/carbon hybrid riser on the rx1


markman said:


> Sorry but I shot both and the RX-1 is a super bow!! They are both awesome bows, the Stealth is no more worth the money than the RX-1 is!!!! I'll take the RX-1!! The RX-1 I shot was stacking arrows, super accurate!! Im no fanboy either, I shoot Elite now and owned a 2017 Carbon Air ECS, now I need to shoot the new Bowtech Realm, might be better than both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

0nepin said:


> i will have to disagree.im sure you can stack arrow with even with a budget priced bow .but the riser technology is light year ahead on the stealth compared to the aluminum/carbon hybrid riser on the rx1


LMAO onepin you'd argue with a signpost !!! you getting some kickback from PSE selling their bows?? lolol only way anyone can know is to shoot both . Oh and the Hoyt is faster according to the specs ,,,oh no !!!


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> Just basing off of what the manufacturers posted ...Take this into consideration when making your decision...
> 
> 1. Shorter axle to axel bows are “almost” always faster than longer axel to axel bows...longer ATA are almost always or at least perceived to be more forging than shorter ATA and are almost always slower than shorter ATA bows ...not in this case
> 
> ...


i would choose rx1
65# limb option
letoff option of 75-85%
superior grip (for me)
i picked up a carbon stealth today, i was excited to shoot it. I cannot get past the grip, i am sorry but it is worse than terrible. The grip is way too deep.
I liked the carbon air much better.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

I don't think they are superior, personally they are very very close, bottom line people just have to shoot the bows and see what is a better fit for them ...Neither you , me or any one else can tell any "one" person what the best bow for them is...the point of my post above is to get folks thinking and read up , study and shoot every bow before they throw down 1500 smackers on a bow...

Coming on this forum and taking our words for it , then buying a bow blind with out shooting it at the poundage they want, and the correct draw length is a huge error in my opinion...



0nepin said:


> No question by the spec the Stealth is the superior bow .I will end up with the one that I can shoot more consistently with .I bet that will also be the stealth .


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> I don't think they are superior, personally they are very very close, bottom line people just have to shoot the bows and see what is a better fit for them ...Neither you , me or any one else can tell any "one" person what the best bow for them is...the point of my post above is to get folks thinking and read up , study and shoot every bow before they throw down 1500 smackers on a bow...
> 
> Coming on this forum and taking our words for it , then buying a bow blind with out shooting it , at the poundage they want, and the correct draw length is a huge error in my opinion...


true


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

zekezoe said:


> i would choose rx1
> 65# limb option
> letoff option of 75-85%
> superior grip (for me)
> ...


I felt the same way about the grip at first. The more I engaged in it I found very little deviation with bareshafts due to the grip keeping placement consistent. 

Its not what I expected but when I compare to a slimmer rounded grip I am finding they are more touchy to grip pressure. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

I used to really like a more slimmer rounded grip but what I’m noticing with the more squared flat-back grip it doesn’t let your hand slide creating slight pressure changes. Seems to stay more consistent. Got quite a few guys that hate the Mathews Focus grip but despite hating it they shoot very consistent bareshafts with them. 

This is actually making me rethink what grip may be the best for repeatable accuracy. It may just not be the one I find the most comfortable . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

i agree with everything you have posted except there no denying the light weight advantage of the carbon stealth .now some might not like the light weights of the carbon stealth but that what I expect from a carbon bow .now the RX-1 heavier and some will like that but it is nothing more than an overpriced aluminum/carbon hybrid.it has zero benefits over an modern aluminum riser bow .does the RX1 have stiffer riser than say a drive X ? Maybe but I couldn’t tell they were both stacking arrow for me.I have not held the stealth yet and may hate the grip but what Shane say about it makes it interesting.I like the grip on the Rx1 but after spending time with i realize it’s a good bow way over priced .kinda like paying $100,000 for mustang gt .


ex-wolverine said:


> I don't think they are superior, personally they are very very close, bottom line people just have to shoot the bows and see what is a better fit for them ...Neither you , me or any one else can tell any "one" person what the best bow for them is...the point of my post above is to get folks thinking and read up , study and shoot every bow before they throw down 1500 smackers on a bow...
> 
> Coming on this forum and taking our words for it , then buying a bow blind with out shooting it at the poundage they want, and the correct draw length is a huge error in my opinion...


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

ontarget7 said:


> I used to really like a more slimmer rounded grip but what I’m noticing with the more squared flat-back grip it doesn’t let your hand slide creating slight pressure changes. Seems to stay more consistent. Got quite a few guys that hate the Mathews Focus grip but despite hating it they shoot very consistent bareshafts with them.
> 
> This is actually making me rethink what grip may be the best for repeatable accuracy. It may just not be the one I find the most comfortable .
> 
> ...


good point


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

ontarget7 said:


> I used to really like a more slimmer rounded grip but what I’m noticing with the more squared flat-back grip it doesn’t let your hand slide creating slight pressure changes. Seems to stay more consistent. Got quite a few guys that hate the Mathews Focus grip but despite hating it they shoot very consistent bareshafts with them.
> 
> This is actually making me rethink what grip may be the best for repeatable accuracy. It may just not be the one I find the most comfortable .
> 
> ...


I actually agree with this^^^ ___ The flatter back surface is more repeatable, but the Stealth grip is just horrible. It's way to thick, and feels like a brick after the Carbon Air. It was a bad move on their part.


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## CAB007 (Nov 27, 2008)

ontarget7 said:


> That’s my assessment so far
> I like the feel of the Hoyt grip but man the Stealth is very repeatable with bareshafts. Will do some further assessment once my personal comes in.
> 
> For the overall weight being so light, it holds on target phenomenal. Going to make a great pack in bow in the backcountry.
> ...


i definitely agree that this bow in backcountry has to be a dream, however to light for a whitetail treestand bow? Obviously know weight can be added easily versus subtracting from something to heavy(halon) however this is a full pound lighter than most others aluminum bows?


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

It is absurd to think that we cannot shoot accurately in hunting situations a finished weight bow that is 61/2 to 7 pounds. We are being sold A-line of b******* from bow manufacturers pushing use boat anchors that starting at almost 5 pounds bare weight. 
Truthfully doesn't matter if bows weight 10 pounds bare for a lot of hunters. Because there is a huge segment that won't walk 200 yards from there side by side and trucks anyway. Hell I am waiting for the box blinds to come out that have an elevator to save guys from climbing the stairs.


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## Jellymon (Jun 19, 2010)

trial153 said:


> It is absurd to think that we cannot shoot accurately in hunting situations a finished weight bow that is 61/2 to 7 pounds. We are being sold A-line of b******* from bow manufacturers pushing use boat anchors that starting at almost 5 pounds bare weight.
> Truthfully doesn't matter if bows weight 10 pounds bare for a lot of hunters. Because there is a huge segment that won't walk 200 yards from there side by side and trucks anyway. Hell I am waiting for the box blinds to come out that have an elevator to save guys from climbing the stairs.


The wait is over. Lol


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

no MO Camo stealth out yet...I am sure I won't find a place that stocks a SE version to shoot either...guess I will have to
shoot an EC or FE model and decide to order an SE or not....


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## Ecrank (May 28, 2017)

Just get a hyperforce... Cheaper than both and felt slightly better in hand than the rx1 (to me).


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

Shot the rx1 not much different than my 17 definite The rx1 seemed like it drew harder up front. Haven't had a chance to shoot the stealth, but it's high on my list. Never know Mathews might change my mind.


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## winmag458 (Mar 27, 2014)

psychobaby111 said:


> Shot the rx1 not much different than my 17 definite The rx1 seemed like it drew harder up front. Haven't had a chance to shoot the stealth, but it's high on my list. Never know Mathews might change my mind.


the stealth is awesome, I thought carbon 34 ECS is awesome too. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Nate79 (Dec 24, 2012)

Jellymon said:


> The wait is over. Lol


Amazing, I can't decide whether that's that's the stupidest f*****g thing I've ever seen, or the most genius?


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## MRHighCountry (Oct 25, 2017)

What could possibly go wrong!!! Lol.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Hahaha no way I’m using one of those .


Nate79 said:


> Amazing, I can't decide whether that's that's the stupidest f*****g thing I've ever seen, or the most genius?


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## rlawless (Feb 15, 2015)

ontarget7 said:


> I used to really like a more slimmer rounded grip but what I’m noticing with the more squared flat-back grip it doesn’t let your hand slide creating slight pressure changes. Seems to stay more consistent. Got quite a few guys that hate the Mathews Focus grip but despite hating it they shoot very consistent bareshafts with them.
> 
> This is actually making me rethink what grip may be the best for repeatable accuracy. It may just not be the one I find the most comfortable .
> 
> ...


I agree!! 

Sent via Galaxy S8


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## pman (Jan 16, 2009)

A trust issue for sure... Just how good are those anchors?


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