# 2023 Bows!!



## nickam9 (Jan 10, 2020)

For Elite I'd like to see their new cam technology on a 33 to 34-inch ATA bow. 

For Mathews I'd like to see something that isn't just a V3X 27 and V3X 31, but I'm not holding my breath. Judging by their recent pattern, they'll probably focus on those sizes of bows this year.

For all manufacturers, I want to see the Hamskea C.O.R. compatibility.


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## wildtoast (Jun 17, 2021)

realistic FPS advertising is all i ask


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## sizthediz (Feb 27, 2011)

Single cam please 
I miss my bow madness


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## zernzm08 (Feb 1, 2009)

34 ata bowtech with deadlock
34 ata carbon PSE


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## MbatsonZ7 (Jan 31, 2021)

If Mathew’s can some how come up with a similar deadlock system I’m in if it’s 33ata


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## KauaiWai (Dec 9, 2021)

Intersted to see what Athens releases for 2023!


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## beesleybraedon (Oct 6, 2019)

nickam9 said:


> For Elite I'd like to see their new cam technology on a 33 to 34-inch ATA bow.
> 
> For Mathews I'd like to see something that isn't just a V3X 27 and V3X 31, but I'm not holding my breath. Judging by their recent pattern, they'll probably focus on those sizes of bows this year.
> 
> For all manufacturers, I want to see the Hamskea C.O.R. compatibility.


The new cam for elite would be great! It’s super adjustable! 
Yeah unfortunately I don’t see Mathews doing a longer ata than 32” but it would be nice!


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## slowen (Jun 27, 2006)

I’d like to see some prices reduced from all companies.


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## 22headshot (6 mo ago)

slowen said:


> I’d like to see some prices reduced from all companies.


With inflation, prices are going to continue to increase.


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## RH1 (Oct 13, 2012)

An Insanity CPXL with deadlock technology


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## dgballweg (Feb 7, 2017)

A sub 4 pound, 340 fps aluminum bow


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## BucksNBulls (Jul 3, 2019)

Hoyt Twin Turbo on the new riser with a 350+ ibo at 70lbs
Bowtech a true 350 ibo 33" ATA bow shipped with the right mods the first time
Mathews to make something different after the last 4-5 years. SMH Same ole same ole. Boring.


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## Mr. Blonde (6 mo ago)

dgballweg said:


> A sub 4 pound, 340 fps aluminum bow


APA Archery has you covered with several options.


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## GrainofPain (Jul 31, 2020)

2023 PSE Full Throttle
5" brace height, 80lbs
371fps 😎


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## ParkerBow (Dec 4, 2006)

I got my 2023 Omen already.


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## saglick (Sep 5, 2016)

I’m hoping for a Can cooler built in that ejects a nice cold beer after every bullseye


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

Ha ha! You guys don't dream much do you lol..... . I like my old 2017 Carbon Air ECS, my 2021 Mach 1's and look forward to my new Levitate in a few days. I think a lot of bows have super cool technology this year. Mathews is solid but a little slower and heavy than I'd like, I think the adjust ability of the Elites and Bowtechs are sweet. But we always want more right? I like where we are headed and look forward to seeing what the new offerings are each year. Sometimes I buy, sometimes I don't. But I also don't really have a wish list either.


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## ZDC (Feb 17, 2021)

I would like to see something nice that I can pick up in 3 years for dirt cheep


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

sizthediz said:


> Single cam please
> I miss my bow madness


Bear has plenty of new single cam bows.


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## saskhic (Aug 14, 2011)

I want a 34 inch pse carbon with the ec cam non Dudley version.


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## mnarcheri (Sep 16, 2018)

A 25" axle-axle bow that's about two pounds, and goes to a 31" draw length, and 370+fps, with a 5" brace height. 

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk


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## HoosierArcher88 (Jan 10, 2013)

Hoyt Carbon (newer riser not recycled rx5 risers) 33-34” with twin turbo cams would be a pleaser for me. PSE had allready met my wishes of a 5.5” speed bow but I suppose a 34/35” ata carbon pse with E2/S2 cams would appease the masses.


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

wildtoast said:


> realistic FPS advertising is all i ask


Then you want a PSE.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

I'd like to see Hoyt update the rotating mods so the lowest setting doesn't take such a speed hit. They could start with draw lengths overlapping.


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## KYcorncob (5 mo ago)

PSE Levitate with the Evolve Cam. 33/34 inch axle to axle is ok. Aluminum bows with less weight, 3.8 to 4.0


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## Schnidly3658 (Apr 7, 2007)

A price reduction to make archery more affordable!


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## MattS304 (6 mo ago)

Some more mid price (sub $600 for bare bow) options in the 32-34 ATA range with reasonable speeds all I ask. In the market for a new bow next year but dropping a grand or more just isn’t feasible. And not having a bow press makes for a potentially risky price jump if I buy used and need a string/cable change!


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## Jpowell0207 (Nov 21, 2019)

BucksnBass525 said:


> Then you want a PSE.


Mathews didn't do too bad the past few yrs but i agree with the sentiment outside of the evl.


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## wbates (Jul 24, 2010)

I wouldn’t be a bit suprised if Mathews comes out with a 32 inch and a 34. They’ve hit all the other lengths the last few years


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## Verminaters1967 (Aug 20, 2019)

Flag ship bows priced $800 or less


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## mnarcheri (Sep 16, 2018)

In all honesty, I want to see a 32-33" Bowtech Carbon Zion, with the stabilizer bushing sitting flush with the riser surface. I would buy that in a heartbeat. New hunting bow for me. 

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## Ashenwelt (Nov 28, 2011)

An early release from all of em, so I can get the current generation at a discount?


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

It's hard to imagine any major moves this year considering what's out there now.

The two biggest players...
Where is Hoyt going to go when they've got the best carbon bow to date, and the ventum is a proven winner?. Seems like anything they would do would only mess up a good thing. And Mathews has done about everything you can do to a bow and then some. The riser cutout was jumping the shark as it is.

I just don't see a lot of big changes coming, but I hope there's more tricks up their sleeves. I'd settle for the supply chain being fixed and better wait times.


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## billytines06 (Jan 4, 2022)

jo3st3 said:


> It's hard to imagine any major moves this year considering what's out there now.
> 
> The two biggest players...
> Where is Hoyt going to go when they've got the best carbon bow to date, and the ventum is a proven winner. Seems like anything they would do would only mess up a good thing. And Mathews has done about everything you can do to a bow and then some. The riser cutout was jumping the shark as it is.
> ...


What has Mathews done that can’t be greatly improved? They haven’t done anything in 5 years but cut out a riser to hold a sight and rest that cost 100’s of dollars. EVERYTHING Mathews does is to make the owner spend more money. You can’t even tune one without having to buy a top hat kit for $50. Worst strings on any bow, and cheap bearings that’s a 50/50 chance of lasting a year. So I’ll wait for the rest.


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## Jellymon (Jun 19, 2010)

No different than the last 10yrs. Except price. Tons of bows already out there with every spec people are asking for in this thread. They already exist.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

A carbon bow from Mathew$.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

slowen said:


> I’d like to see some prices reduced from all companies.


Not going to happen if everyone expects some amazing new design every year. Especially at current post-pandemic pricing of goods and services. Shooters have already shown their on-going willingness to repeatedly buy bows every year at rifle prices.


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

jo3st3 said:


> Where is Hoyt going to go when they've got the best carbon bow to date


Many will argue that PSE has the best with the Levitate. Also, Hoyt’s too cheap to make their Carbon bows in America.


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

Mathews has my attention because maybe they will have a new riser/cam design this year? They’ve maxed out their current platform in my opinion.

Hoyt had a great bow with the Ventum Pro 33, but for some reason I’m not excited about their 2023 release.

Bowtech will be interesting to see how they rebound from last years boondoggle.

Excited to see Elite with an EnKore that has their newest tech.

Prime has my attention with their new Inline series. They refine that bow and I may be buying one.

Athens is another that has my attention. Great color options and the RTX cam is a dream! Hopefully 2023 is a real breakout for them.

PSE…besides the Levitate last year I find their bows big and clunky


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## LonnyM (Aug 19, 2020)

ParkerBow said:


> I got my 2023 Omen already.


My LH Omen is on order. Can't wait to get it.


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## soonerboy (Sep 6, 2004)

saglick said:


> I’m hoping for a Can cooler built in that ejects a nice cold beer after every bullseye


I would end up very thirsty.


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## deer310sg (Feb 20, 2006)

Very interested in what Prime is gonna do to refine, improve their first "normal" cam inline series. Love my ventum pro 33, not sure what the can do improve imo.


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## ParkerBow (Dec 4, 2006)

LonnyM said:


> My LH Omen is on order. Can't wait to get it.


I really love mine. So much better then the older Omen and Full Throttle. Does have a big hump about 1/2 way but it does hold nice.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

I admit I'm still a gearhead at heart, so I watch the new bows every year.
On my wish list is PSE fixing the cable guard on the Supras. Go back to a rod bolted securely onto the side of the handle, like they're now doing on some of the hunting bows. Ditch the awful dog-leg bracket thing with the huge side-loaded bolt and the rod held in with teeny tiny little set screws.

I'm also intrigued by the new Hoyt target bow that's supposedly coming out. Not that I may buy one, unless it's really really compelling...

lee.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

jo3st3 said:


> It's hard to imagine any major moves this year considering what's out there now.
> 
> The two biggest players...
> Where is Hoyt going to go when they've got the best carbon bow to date, and the ventum is a proven winner. Seems like anything they would do would only mess up a good thing. And Mathews has done about everything you can do to a bow and then some. The riser cutout was jumping the shark as it is.
> ...


Mathews needs a much more adjustable cam system. I can’t stand the thought of trying different draw lengths and let offs and paying for that. Add top hats to the list also. Who cares about the FPS you’ll lose with non DL specific cams. I am constantly messing with my bows and Mathews would get costly trying to find the best most accurate setup.


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## raisins (Jan 21, 2016)

Bowtech should bring something back similar to the Revolt X but just call it something different so they don't have to admit they were boneheads for getting rid of it to begin with.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

raisins said:


> Bowtech should bring something back similar to the Revolt X but just call it something different so they don't have to admit they were boneheads for getting rid of it to begin with.


They have to move on to compete. One could argue the only “boneheads” involved are those who sold their Revolt X bows 😉 . I still have mine and my son still has his.


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## Fixed blades only. (10 mo ago)

I wanna see Matthew's steal someone else's designs and call it new to the market like their 5th iteration of the same bow. Wait. Yeah. I said that.

I am excited to see what hoyts up to. Them and pse should have some interesting drops this season.

I'd love to see a revamped pit viper air from apa. But. We'll see. 

Wanna see what some of the under dogs or the old names in the industry like Fred bear or expedition pull out this season.


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## maxpowerpc2000 (Apr 5, 2010)

New target recurve? Anyone? No? Fine, I'll let myself out....


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

Mathews: Hunting bow with the same specs as the TRX 34, ditch SW cam for a rotating mod and for the love of all things holy lose the Zebra strings and Engage grip. None of which will happen. Most likely VX4 but hope I’m wrong.

Elite: Put the Verdict cam on a hunting bow with CORE. I actually think there will be a 35” and 33” which has me excited, but I’m not holding my breathe for direct mount options.

Bowtech: I’ll admit I’m a Bowtech guy not that I think they are superior they just shoot well for me. Just a guess but CP30 and CP32. Doubt they do CORE but they will have dovetails. There is a new Target bow coming, my guess 36” so a hair too long for most people to consider it a crossover. If they do a longer crossover bow, 34ish ATA it will probably go to something like 32” and be slow at average DL. That said they would have to produce something amazing for me to invest in them during their transition period.

PSE: They always surprise me but just don’t get along with them. Best assumption longer Leviate but not til next spring. 35” EVO XF might get my attention though.

Athens: They are due for a speed bow to round out their ever popular Vistas. Best speculation, 32/6 but I have doubt for any accessory integration. Their new quiver is nice however.

Hoyt: New Carbon riser for the Twin Turbo and an aluminum version that is a little shorter maybe. Neither of which I have any interest. Great product just not my cup of tea after owning a V33PRO.

Obsession: GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR @$$ and get back to what made you respectable.

Xpedition: Fire all the employees that wear eye liner.

I have nothing for Prime, Bear APA or Darton.

Just one more:
Gearhead: Just stop already


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## 168p&y (Nov 12, 2019)

Funny if Obsession would clean up a old M6 and rerelease it it would be top 3 bow of the year.


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

168p&y said:


> Funny if Obsession would clean up a old M6 and rerelease it it would be top 3 bow of the year.


That’s how I feel about the K34!


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

Mathews - new grip and cam. We've had enough already.
Hoyt- new carbon riser for the turbo. Id be surprised if they don't redesign the aluminum line. 
Pse - 33-34 carbon
Bowtech - Ditch the flip disc. Have standard mod in between comfort and performance and maybe offer a performance mod. 

Never owned anything else besides bows from those brands so dont really have any more input on what id change on bows Ive never owned.


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

vmals said:


> Bowtech - Ditch the flip disc. Have standard mod in between comfort and performance and maybe offer a performance mod.


110% agree, PSE and Elite have both proven this to be a superior platform.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Would love a PSE 34-36” carbon with a 7” BH. That would be the first carbon bow I would ever own.


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## maxiek (Jul 27, 2009)

slowen said:


> I’d like to see some prices reduced from all companies.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Not happening.


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

I cant wait for new bow season so everyone can b*tch and moan about the new lineups. Very entertaining.


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## PMBRIGGS (Feb 12, 2017)

sizthediz said:


> Single cam please
> I miss my bow madness


The new THP Bear bow is single cam


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## nickam9 (Jan 10, 2020)

vmals said:


> I cant wait for new bow season so everyone can b*tch and moan about the new lineups. Very entertaining.


The circle of life on AT


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## elncalls (9 mo ago)

Prime Inline with sight and rest mounting built in. Keep everything else the same.


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## OurselvesAlone (Nov 26, 2018)

beesleybraedon said:


> It’s almost that time of year. What is everyone hoping to see in this year’s offerings?
> For Mathews I’d love to see a 34” ATA with a 6.5-7” brace height with speeds similar to the V3X 33
> For Hoyt I’d love to see a wider limb stance like other manufacturers have gone to with a 34” ata again
> For PSE I’d like to see a new riser design and 34” ata also!


I second that on the Mathews 34” ATA with similar speeds!


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## Ashenwelt (Nov 28, 2011)

Jellymon said:


> No different than the last 10yrs. Except price. Tons of bows already out there with every spec people are asking for in this thread. They already exist.


Honestly, they have massively smoothed out the draw cycle for equivalent speed. Compare a Hoyt Alpha Burner to a Hoyt Ventum Pro? Darn, things are fairly close on speed. The Ventum has a dramatically nicer draw, is lighter, and a much more forgiving design. And yes, technically, that is 11 years... but that is a significant improvement inside Hoyt. Now, if my favorite dealer was a Hoyt dealer...


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## BigFish7 (Oct 19, 2017)

GrainofPain said:


> 2023 PSE Full Throttle
> 5" brace height, 80lbs
> 371fps 😎


90lbs and I’m interested


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## GrainofPain (Jul 31, 2020)

BigFish7 said:


> 90lbs and I’m interested


Me too, but that would be intense to shoot with a 5" BH.


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## The Old Guy (Mar 28, 2017)

w


beesleybraedon said:


> It’s almost that time of year. What is everyone hoping to see in this year’s offerings?
> For Mathews I’d love to see a 34” ATA with a 6.5-7” brace height with speeds similar to the V3X 33
> For Hoyt I’d love to see a wider limb stance like other manufacturers have gone to with a 34” ata again
> For PSE I’d like to see a new riser design and 34” ata also!


Mathews has a 34” bow with 6 1/2” brace height. It’s called a TRX 34.


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## Solarair (5 mo ago)

Athens peak 38 with a 27” dl


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## PMBRIGGS (Feb 12, 2017)

vmals said:


> I cant wait for new bow season so everyone can b*tch and moan about the new lineups. Very entertaining.


Lmao!!


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

The only bow I would be remotely interested in would be an Elite hunting bow with their new cam system. I am simply looking forward to making some gut piles with my V3X 29.


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## sticknstring007 (Dec 2, 2017)

An Elite on an Enkore spec riser with all the goods on the Verdict, in an 80lb option keeping the 6" brace and hitting a legit 350 IBO. Would have me buying.
Bowtech to make an actual SR350 (33" ATA/6" brace) that actually hits the 350+IBO.
Mathews to come out with a whole new cam system. This remaking the Halon year after year is getting old, and the draw has gotten steadily worse on them.
Hoyt to keep doing what they are doing. An aluminum riser 33" ATA / 6" brace 350+IBO Turbo with only two mod options (27-29 and 29-31) and an 80lb limb option.
PSE to keep doing what they are doing. I have a love/hate relationship with the E2 and S2 cams, but they bring real speed which I like.


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## rspytma (Oct 16, 2017)

I would like more brands to offer bows with that 30-33 inch draw length capability in a hunting rig b


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

Something under $1300...that would be nice...

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Ken (Aug 6, 2019)

vmals said:


> Mathews - new grip and cam. We've had enough already.
> Hoyt- new carbon riser for the turbo. Id be surprised if they don't redesign the aluminum line.
> Pse - 33-34 carbon
> Bowtech - Ditch the flip disc. Have standard mod in between comfort and performance and maybe offer a performance mod.
> ...


I like the draw cycle of the flip disc on the comfort setting. Have Bowtech make a true shoot thur riser.


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## Mr. Ken (Aug 6, 2019)

For PSE to make a Citation 38 with the draw cycle of the Bowtech flip disc on comfort setting with 40-50 pound limbs. And make the grip about 1-1/6th to 3/32nd of an inch thicker (wider).


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

sizthediz said:


> Single cam please
> I miss my bow madness


Only company I can think of putting out new bows with a solo cam is Bear. I really wish Mathew’s would do a throwback bow with updated riser and new technology on a solo cam like Switchback with 33 to 35 ATA with a faster more efficient solo cam 7 inch brace or 6.5 or an option of the 2 like they did with the Halon I think they would see like crazy and considering they STILL make the conquest 4 and just updated it with some newer stuff


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

Mr. Blonde said:


> APA Archery has you covered with several options.


Any info on APA ? I’ve seen them hear and there on AT but never in person looks interesting but not sure on it I don’t have a local dealer to go shoot one


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

jo3st3 said:


> It's hard to imagine any major moves this year considering what's out there now.
> 
> The two biggest players...
> Where is Hoyt going to go when they've got the best carbon bow to date, and the ventum is a proven winner?. Seems like anything they would do would only mess up a good thing. And Mathews has done about everything you can do to a bow and then some. The riser cutout was jumping the shark as it is.
> ...


I hope you mean Hoyt has "their" best carbon bow to date, because PSE in my opinion has the two best carbon bows produced to date by anyone.
The Mach 1 simply put I believe is the best carbon pure hunting bow produced ever, and the Levitate arguably just as good.

For me I hope it's another Mach, maybe call it a Mach2 with wider pockets, newer yokes, axles, lower bushing, bb mount, etc. Keep the EC on it, please never retire the EC.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

^ 100%


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## Nebraska bowhunter (9 mo ago)

I’d like to see Mathews have a grip that’s differs than the engage grip. Also an improvement in their factory strings.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

Pse- lower stabilizer bushing in the levitate, better shim system.
Bowtech- bow that shoots down the middle instead of 3/4” or less centershot 
Mathews- better grip , move grip slightly higher 
Hoyt- go back to a 32” and 35” bow that doesn’t weigh 6lbs. Bare
Elite- a performance bow 32-34”


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

Lee_Wells said:


> Any info on APA ? I’ve seen them hear and there on AT but never in person looks interesting but not sure on it I don’t have a local dealer to go shoot one


APA bows are interesting. Very light. Lots of unique features. But also a very niche bow. They certainly don't come across as flagship level bow, even when you hold them. Dealer network is sparse as well, but all work can be sent directly to the factory.


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## shorteraaron (6 mo ago)

KauaiWai said:


> Intersted to see what Athens releases for 2023!


Same here. Was going to buy a new bow this year and they were top of my list. But this close to deer season decided to wait to see 2023 options.


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## DzlSoot (7 mo ago)

cruizerjoy said:


> The only bow I would be remotely interested in would be an Elite hunting bow with their new cam system. I am simply looking forward to making some gut piles with my V3X 29.


That’s what I’m thinking 

Carbon Air Stealth
VX3 33”


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

veritas.archangel said:


> APA bows are interesting. Very light. Lots of unique features. But also a very niche bow. They certainly don't come across as flagship level bow, even when you hold them. Dealer network is sparse as well, but all work can be sent directly to the factory.


That’s a little disappointing looks like the next company I will try will be Athens


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## NWIOWAGRANT (Nov 24, 2018)

Bowtech with deadlock cams 33" ATA and 8" brace height and in 320-330 fps range
GENERAL 2.0
Will be a very telling year for the direction the new ownership group will take Bowtech.


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## rjack (Jan 14, 2007)

billytines06 said:


> What has Mathews done that can’t be greatly improved? They haven’t done anything in 5 years but cut out a riser to hold a sight and rest that cost 100’s of dollars. EVERYTHING Mathews does is to make the owner spend more money. You can’t even tune one without having to buy a top hat kit for $50. Worst strings on any bow, and cheap bearings that’s a 50/50 chance of lasting a year. So I’ll wait for the rest.


So your not buying a Mathews next year? 😂🤣😂 
I’ve tuned a few and have never touched a top hat once. I can’t argue about the strings but grips are as subjective as bow opinions. Haters going to hate as they say.


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## spyderGelement (Apr 15, 2013)

something totally new from mathews, not the revamped triax or vertix of these past years, but i guess when success is that good you stick with it.


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## mxz500ss (Dec 30, 2011)

BucksnBass525 said:


> I hope you mean Hoyt has "their" best carbon bow to date, because PSE in my opinion has the two best carbon bows produced to date by anyone.
> The Mach 1 simply put I believe is the best carbon pure hunting bow produced ever, and the Levitate arguably just as good.
> 
> For me I hope it's another Mach, maybe call it a Mach2 with wider pockets, newer yokes, axles, lower bushing, bb mount, etc. Keep the EC on it, please never retire the EC.


I could not agree more a Mach2 would be nice with the EC cam (my favorite) but would need to be that much better for me to part with my Mach1.


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## HeavyUser (Dec 23, 2021)

rjack said:


> I’ve tuned a few and have never touched a top hat once.


So your "tuning" process involves making adjustments to the rest only?


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..I just hope the manufactures can get the aluminum needed for construction...FWIW


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## mnarcheri (Sep 16, 2018)

bowman69 said:


> Mathews: Hunting bow with the same specs as the TRX 34, ditch SW cam for a rotating mod and for the love of all things holy lose the Zebra strings and Engage grip. None of which will happen. Most likely VX4 but hope I’m wrong.
> 
> Elite: Put the Verdict cam on a hunting bow with CORE. I actually think there will be a 35” and 33” which has me excited, but I’m not holding my breathe for direct mount options.
> 
> ...


I never want to see the Switchweight go away. That's an awesome design. I like being able to adjust five pounds one way or another and just change a module, and still shoot with my bow maxed out. I refuse to shoot my own bow with backed off limbs. 

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## mnarcheri (Sep 16, 2018)

vmals said:


> Mathews - new grip and cam. We've had enough already.
> Hoyt- new carbon riser for the turbo. Id be surprised if they don't redesign the aluminum line.
> Pse - 33-34 carbon
> Bowtech - Ditch the flip disc. Have standard mod in between comfort and performance and maybe offer a performance mod.
> ...


So, you want Bowtexh to ditch the Flipdisc for essentially the same thing, but need a different module set to achieve that? Makes zero sense. Maybe make the comfort setting have a bit more performance, and then flip the module if you want even more, with a harsher draw cycle. You are wanting the same thing they are already doing, and making it more convenient. Kind of an oxymoron is what you are asking for. 

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk


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## mnarcheri (Sep 16, 2018)

PMBRIGGS said:


> The new THP Bear bow is single cam


But it has a cast aluminum riser. That's an immediate pass for me. Machined aluminum, and I would be all over it. 

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk


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## rjack (Jan 14, 2007)

HeavyUser said:


> So your "tuning" process involves making adjustments to the rest only?


The crazy part was I did not have to adjust anything right or left using a QAD Integrate rest. I had to tweak my knock by a few clicks and both paper and bare shafts were good to go for me.
I left the rest at “0” and had no tail right or left issues.


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## Ashenwelt (Nov 28, 2011)

elncalls said:


> Prime Inline with sight and rest mounting built in. Keep everything else the same.


This kind of change is what I am looking for.


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

I’d like to see a true 4#, 32-34” ATA bow, integrated rest, and Bridgelock technology that is well-balanced so you don’t need to add crazy weight with a stabilizer.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

mxz500ss said:


> I could not agree more a Mach2 would be nice with the EC cam (my favorite) but would need to be that much better for me to part with my Mach1.


You can't even find PSE where I live. I've never been able to really try out the products. It's Hoyt, Mathews, a few Bowtechs, and the random Elite model.

Would you take a Mach 1 over a Levitate?


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

Love all these posts for a sub 4# AL bow. It’s not going to happen without a change in material. Risers are getting longer thus must have the dimensional width and depth to make them rigid, otherwise its a literal tuning fork. Why do Mathews and Hoyt lead the pack in sound dampening, or why Elite machines “cages” in their risers? Easy, risers with minimal flex are less susceptible to and absorb more vibration but do so a the expense of added weigh. Then you add in rest and sight integration, whether that be through the riser or clamped, the bow still must have maintain structural integrity to incorporate them. Not to mention wider limb stances adding weight to the pocket. Hoyt couldn’t even do it with carbon. Athens Vistas are about the most skeletonized of a riser as you can get and still sustain rigidity and they still weigh over 4#. Exactly where on those bow do you think you could removed weight while adding direct mount option like Bridgelock.
If there is a sub 4# 34” bow in the near future it’s coming from PSE and it will be carbon, PERIOD!


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## Kevin6string (Sep 16, 2021)

beesleybraedon said:


> It’s almost that time of year. What is everyone hoping to see in this year’s offerings?
> For Mathews I’d love to see a 34” ATA with a 6.5-7” brace height with speeds similar to the V3X 33
> For Hoyt I’d love to see a wider limb stance like other manufacturers have gone to with a 34” ata again
> For PSE I’d like to see a new riser design and 34” ata also!


Realistic ATA fps specs, more 7" brace Height options, top of the line bow models designed for short draw shooters, not 1 size fits many. "We need KE too" lol.


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## mxz500ss (Dec 30, 2011)

jo3st3 said:


> You can't even find PSE where I live. I've never been able to really try out the products. It's Hoyt, Mathews, a few Bowtechs, and the random Elite model.
> 
> Would you take a Mach 1 over a Levitate?


I like the EC cam the Levitate only has the E2and S2 cam so for me right now it would be the Mach1.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

mnarcheri said:


> I never want to see the Switchweight go away. That's an awesome design. I like being able to adjust five pounds one way or another and just change a module, and still shoot with my bow maxed out. I refuse to shoot my own bow with backed off limbs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk


I won’t buy another Mathews until it does go away (I’ve owned 2 SW bows and ended up dumping both eventually primarily because of draw cycle. Worst draw cycle (generally and relative to performance) on the market. Seemed like a good invention but terribly designed. And if you’ve played with diff mods you’ll realize the letoff gaps are inaccurate. My V33x out of the box 85% mods measured 80% on draw board. With new threads and a tune got to 83%. Have a MT elk hunt coming up and max letoff in MT is 80%. Picked up 80% mods and with zero other changes to bow (just a mod swap) the letoff went from 83% to 76% which was untenable. Any attempt to get to 80% in either direction took bow way out of spec. Realized it wasn’t going to happen. Flexibility to get letoff and draw length just right with those cams is very limited - have to sort of get lucky. Anyway, Mathews needs a big change to get me back.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Ok, so here we go:

Mathews - (see also above) dump the awful SW cams and come up with something that has a better draw cycle relative to performance - your competitors do it. My Enkore has a way better draw cycle than my V3X did and delivered 5 more fps. Get a decent grip on your bows - you’ve sucked at grips your entire existence- isn’t that hard frankly. And finally, kolorfuse your camo for Pete’s sake! It’s been standard with many of your competitors for many years - your customers deserve a decent finish!

Hoyt - idk, first get me a dealer within reasonable distance that will actually let you shoot a bow - local dealer has huge area locked up and he refuses to let anyone shoot a demo bow - stupid. Put a little more focus on performance and get out of the rut on module DL ranges where low end sucks on performance. Similar to Mathews comment - kolorfuse your camo bows! You and Mathews are an embarrassment in this regard. Finally, you sort of started the carbon bow trend - now figure out how to be competitive again. PSE is eating your lunch.

Elite - just make one or two versions of the Verdict in hunting specs. Give me an Enkore type bow with the longer riser and shorter (but wider stance) limbs for stability and then with the cam adjustability - but keep the weight in check (you’ve gotten a bit heavy recently) and you’ll probably have the best hunting bow on the market this year. DON’T do a repeat of last year - which was not good.

Bowtech - just come out with a bow that competes with the elite I described above. Give me something in the 32-33” ATA and 6-6.5” BH range that actually delivers closer to 340 in comfort mode with good draw cycle and with deadlock (of course - best tuning system on the market) and there’s a decent chance you’ll get some of my money.

PSE - get back to EC cams on top level bows in good specs. I want the good draw cycle and good performance you had on bows like evolve and evoke series. And, while I’ve never thought carbon bows were worth the money and thus haven’t bought one, if you make something with features of Levitate but performance of Mach 1 with EC cam, nice draw and solid 340 range performance in a 32-33” 6-6.5” BH range you may actually convince me to drop the coin. I was close on Mach 1 but lack of proper lower rear stab mount killed it probably more than anything. Won’t buy a bow without it (and even the Levitate option is a cheap afterthought fix and too high on the bow).

Beyond this I start to care less. I’ve given up on Obsession and Xpedition (both of which I’ve owned in the past) and don’t really care about Bear.

I will comment on Athens as it’s gained some popularity here recently and I’ve had my own personal experience with it. Finish and grip are outstanding but that’s about where it ends. For starters stop lying about performance or design a bow that actually hits your numbers. Fix the new roller guard system you came out with. Positioning of the thing is terrible (BTW you can’t run an Epsilon rest on them - period) and cables are in line of sight unless you adjust way to the right which then creates tuning issues. And find a way to get a better tuning system (even if you have to pay royalties to do so). You have to assume shimming is necessary on these bows and it’s a pain compared to other options out there (especially given that you charge full top brand bow prices without any of the technology). Finally, improve your distribution and brand value. Very tough to find a dealer to shoot your bows and anyone who buys your bow gets absolutely slaughtered on resale.


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## Daduate (May 13, 2021)

I like the direction elite went with the 1% letoff adjustments and 1/4” draw . I mean how can that be a bad thing . Mathews probably sells more bows then everyone else put together so I doubt we will see something “game changing “from them . Ide like to see Hoyt offer something like they do with the invicta where you get multiple grip plates or contract with Ultraview like Mathews I’ve been trying to change out the “vital “ grip but just can’t find one . Rattler doesn’t do it, Ultraview, torqueless , gillingham none . As always I’ll be watching Bowtech. Prime is cool I shot the inline 3 idk everything is good . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

^^^
Adjustability of elite system is a game changer. People don’t realize how much diff getting DL just right makes.
Forgot about Prime. Owned a CT3 - draw cycle was awful. Haven’t really messed with the new system. Make something that truly competes with some of the other options I described and you are in the game. Your finish is the best on the market. Not sure I love the grip stuff you are doing but haven’t played with them enough.


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

jo3st3 said:


> You can't even find PSE where I live. I've never been able to really try out the products. It's Hoyt, Mathews, a few Bowtechs, and the random Elite model.
> 
> Would you take a Mach 1 over a Levitate?


Yes, simply because of the EC cam.
IMO the best feeling, best performing cam in the industry.


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

jo3st3 said:


> You can't even find PSE where I live. I've never been able to really try out the products. It's Hoyt, Mathews, a few Bowtechs, and the random Elite model.
> 
> Would you take a Mach 1 over a Levitate?


Road Trip, wallet, thank me later.


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

Predator said:


> Ok, so here we go:
> 
> Mathews - (see also above) dump the awful SW cams and come up with something that has a better draw cycle relative to performance - your competitors do it. My Enkore has a way better draw cycle than my V3X did and delivered 5 more fps. Get a decent grip on your bows - you’ve sucked at grips your entire existence- isn’t that hard frankly. And finally, kolorfuse your camo for Pete’s sake! It’s been standard with many of your competitors for many years - you customers deserve a decent finish!
> 
> ...


This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ absolutely spot on!


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## DJudge (Nov 19, 2010)

Let’s make it interesting and challenge the manufacturers to the following specs: Solid Limb, 380+ FPS IBO, 33-34” ATA, 7” BH, under 4lbs, under $1K…


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

Kevin6string said:


> Realistic ATA fps specs, more 7" brace Height options, top of the line bow models designed for short draw shooters, not 1 size fits many. "We need KE too" lol.


They make Gearheads for you short people! 🤪


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## _Splinter_ (Sep 10, 2018)

33-35” ATA 
6.5-7” BH 
Long riser & smooth draw 
I like how Mathews has really adopted the K.I.S.S. Rule for a hunting bow. Less moving parts the better on a bow that will be in the woods bouncing off trees, brush, and rocks. No E clips to be lost is a bonus.
A longer ATA levitate would also be welcomed.


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

Predator said:


> Elite - just make one or two versions of the Verdict in hunting specs. Give me an Enkore type bow with the longer riser and shorter (but wider stance) limbs for stability and then with the cam adjustability - but keep the weight in check (you’ve gotten a bit heavy recently) and you’ll probably have the best hunting bow on the market this year. DON’T do a repeat of last year - which was not good.


Bingo. If Elite comes out with a 34" Veridict; 2022/23 may be the first "new" hunting bow I purchase in a long long time.

Currenlty shooting a 2011 Bowtech Destoyer 340 w/ Barnesdales. Not many bows have surpassed it's specs in the last 10 years IMO.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Leaked photos from Bowtech...


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

MattS304 said:


> Some more mid price (sub $600 for bare bow) options in the 32-34 ATA range with reasonable speeds all I ask. In the market for a new bow next year but dropping a grand or more just isn’t feasible. And not having a bow press makes for a potentially risky price jump if I buy used and need a string/cable change!


I have the bow for you. A Pse altera


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## ballistic bob (Nov 28, 2002)

Mathews needs to bring back a retro Z7 Magnum single cam!


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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

slowen said:


> I’d like to see some prices reduced from all companies.


I agree, no way I'm going to spend huge money on a bow just to see it depreciate 50%


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## Lashot_72 (5 mo ago)

2023 Omen i guess..


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

mnarcheri said:


> So, you want Bowtexh to ditch the Flipdisc for essentially the same thing, but need a different module set to achieve that? Makes zero sense. Maybe make the comfort setting have a bit more performance, and then flip the module if you want even more, with a harsher draw cycle. You are wanting the same thing they are already doing, and making it more convenient. Kind of an oxymoron is what you are asking for.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk


Comfort is slow and performance draw cycle is terrible especially at 30.5 inches. I want something in the middle. If they can achieve it with the flip disc great. They probably wont. This thread is just for fun and if i want something that makes zero sense and is an oxymoron - its what I want. I'm not shoving it down anyone's throat.


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

Ill add this for Mathews - Mods that have an inch of adjustment in 1/4 increments. Still keep the efficiency but can dial in your DL without having to spend 140 plus to dial in your setup.


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## LonnyM (Aug 19, 2020)

vmals said:


> Ill add this for Mathews - Mods that have an inch of adjustment in 1/4 increments. Still keep the efficiency but can dial in your DL without having to spend 140 plus to dial in your setup.


Every manufacturer should opt for 1/4 inch DL adjustments it makes it so much easier to get the right draw length without playing with let off to go between 1/2 inch adjustments. That's one thing I do love about Elite bows


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## krieger (Jan 24, 2007)

bowman69 said:


> Love all these posts for a sub 4# AL bow. It’s not going to happen without a change in material. Risers are getting longer thus must have the dimensional width and depth to make them rigid, otherwise its a literal tuning fork. Why do Mathews and Hoyt lead the pack in sound dampening, or why Elite machines “cages” in their risers? Easy, risers with minimal flex are less susceptible to and absorb more vibration but do so a the expense of added weigh. Then you add in rest and sight integration, whether that be through the riser or clamped, the bow still must have maintain structural integrity to incorporate them. Not to mention wider limb stances adding weight to the pocket. Hoyt couldn’t even do it with carbon. Athens Vistas are about the most skeletonized of a riser as you can get and still sustain rigidity and they still weigh over 4#. Exactly where on those bow do you think you could removed weight while adding direct mount option like Bridgelock.
> If there is a sub 4# 34” bow in the near future it’s coming from PSE and it will be carbon, PERIOD!


 My Moxie Helo ( 2019 model IIRC) weighs EXACTLY 4.0 lbs bare bow. On my certified scale. It's not a " caged " style, yes those will be heavier, but there are 4.0 lb bows available on the market. Threads like these are mostly bar talk anyway, there will be maybe 4 guys on this thread that buy a new 2023 model bow.


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## MinnesotaNice (8 mo ago)

Nebraska bowhunter said:


> I’d like to see Mathews have a grip that’s differs than the engage grip. Also an improvement in their factory strings.


I couldn't agree more


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

krieger said:


> My Moxie Helo ( 2019 model IIRC) weighs EXACTLY 4.0 lbs bare bow. On my certified scale. It's not a " caged " style, yes those will be heavier, but there are 4.0 lb bows available on the market. Threads like these are mostly bar talk anyway, there will be maybe 4 guys on this thread that buy a new 2023 model bow.


I think you are underestimating the amount of guys on here that go through 3-5 new bows a year.


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## Boilerman86 (Jan 23, 2017)

bowhuntermitch said:


> Bingo. If Elite comes out with a 34" Veridict; 2022/23 may be the first "new" hunting bow I purchase in a long long time.
> 
> Currenlty shooting a 2011 Bowtech Destoyer 340 w/ Barnesdales. Not many bows have surpassed it's specs in the last 10 years IMO.


Y’all realize you’re describing the Envision platform right? Long riser, highly adjustable cams, 1/4” draw adjustments…

It’s 31” ATA, but the big cams make it feel like a 33-34”.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

This thread is hilarious


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## LonnyM (Aug 19, 2020)

Boilerman86 said:


> Y’all realize you’re describing the Envision platform right? Long riser, highly adjustable cams, 1/4” draw adjustments…
> 
> It’s 31” ATA, but the big cams make it feel like a 33-34”.


It does not feel like a 33 or 34 inch bow


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

Boilerman86 said:


> Y’all realize you’re describing the Envision platform right? Long riser, highly adjustable cams, 1/4” draw adjustments…
> 
> It’s 31” ATA, but the big cams make it feel like a 33-34”.


No, just no. The Envision was a huge let down imo.


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## Boarbon (May 16, 2012)

35” ata PSE Levitate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Boilerman86 (Jan 23, 2017)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> No, just no. The Envision was a huge let down imo.


Cool story Bro. 

I couldn’t get rid of my enkore fast enough.


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## ScopeRKT (Nov 27, 2011)

Fast, quietest, smoothest, best balanced, vibe free bow they ever made. Different year, same reviews.

Not hating but just what happens every year. Small tweaks with draw force curves, weight, and dampeners. Used to buy new bows all the time. But I’m pretty set for a while.


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## HeavyUser (Dec 23, 2021)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> No, just no. The Envision was a huge let down imo.


Why do you feel that way?


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## krieger (Jan 24, 2007)

4IDARCHER said:


> I think you are underestimating the amount of guys on here that go through 3-5 new bows a year.


What percent of this site is that ?? I would bet it's less than 2%....my whole point is, guys talk EVERY dang year about , " if they just made it 2 " longer ATA, if they just made it 6.75 BH instead of 6.5 " ..etc....then when the bow when their " dream specs" actually does show up...they find something else wrong with it...


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

HeavyUser said:


> Why do you feel that way?


Because I shot it with the V3X, and Inline 3. I know outdoorlife magazine said it had the least vibration, however when I shot it had the most. It was louder than the other two, the draw cycle was meh, and based on speed results from online reviews it’s one of the biggest fps fibbers out there. I really wanted Elite to come out swinging this year but it seemed as if they just rode the SET train and made an underwhelming bow.


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> Because I shot it with the V3X, and Inline 3. I know outdoorlife magazine said it had the least vibration, however when I shot it had the most. It was louder than the other two, the draw cycle was meh, and based on speed results from online reviews it’s one of the biggest fps fibbers out there. I really wanted Elite to come out swinging this year but it seemed as if they just rode the SET train and made an underwhelming bow.


Yep, vibrated like a MF. So bad we actually sent it back to Elite to check over. They said it shot great. Got it back, still vibrated...like a full second and a half after the shot. Everyone that shot it said the same thing. It was always the first to go back on the shelf when buyers were testing bows. Even Bowhunter magazine talked about a "sustained, low frequency, vibration." Finally convinced the rep to take the bow back and send us a new one, thinking maybe it was just a bad sample. That was two months ago, and we still haven't seen the replacement.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

krieger said:


> What percent of this site is that ?? I would bet it's less than 2%....my whole point is, guys talk EVERY dang year about , " if they just made it 2 " longer ATA, if they just made it 6.75 BH instead of 6.5 " ..etc....then when the bow when their " dream specs" actually does show up...they find something else wrong with it...


Not saying you are wrong about guys finding something wrong with the bow, but look at the classifieds and see how many current year bows are bought and sold. I used to go through 7-8 bows a year now it is down to 2-3 and that is still bad, but not nearly as crazy as some guys on this site.


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## HeavyUser (Dec 23, 2021)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> Because I shot it with the V3X, and Inline 3. I know outdoorlife magazine said it had the least vibration, however when I shot it had the most. It was louder than the other two, the draw cycle was meh, and based on speed results from online reviews it’s one of the biggest fps fibbers out there. I really wanted Elite to come out swinging this year but it seemed as if they just rode the SET train and made an underwhelming bow.


Good information, thank you for that.

The Elites intrigued me, mainly cause of SET and not owning a bow press.


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## Ohiobuckdan (7 mo ago)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> No, just no. The Envision was a huge let down imo.


Could you please explain? I was thinking about picking one up.


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

Ohiobuckdan said:


> Could you please explain? I was thinking about picking one up.


Go up to post 132, and I explain. Read the next few posts and you’ll see a trend.


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## HeavyUser (Dec 23, 2021)

Ohiobuckdan said:


> Could you please explain? I was thinking about picking one up.


His explanation was spot on and is inline with others. I also was looking forward to possibly picking up an Elite due to the ease of tunability, I'll make sure to test one alongside a bowtech first. Currently still trying to tune my rx7 ultra but already looking at other bows cause I have an addiction 💰


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## Ohiobuckdan (7 mo ago)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> Go up to post 132, and I explain. Read the next few posts and you’ll see a trend.


Thanks, yeah it's no speed demon that's for sure.

I shot them when I bought my v3, im not happy with v3 31, myself, going to put new strings and returne, maybe go half an inch longer draw.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Mathews target and hunting with sole cam with limb and cable stop With 33 and 35 38 aa Brace around 7 inch price under $600


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## Fixed blades only. (10 mo ago)

mnarcheri said:


> A 25" axle-axle bow that's about two pounds, and goes to a 31" draw length, and 370+fps, with a 5" brace height.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk




Get an apa. 7 inch brace height. 


And then you can have the bow Mathew's and hoyt ip steal from.


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## raisins (Jan 21, 2016)

bowman69 said:


> Mathews: Hunting bow with the same specs as the TRX 34, ditch SW cam for a rotating mod and for the love of all things holy lose the Zebra strings and Engage grip. None of which will happen. Most likely VX4 but hope I’m wrong.
> 
> Elite: Put the Verdict cam on a hunting bow with CORE. I actually think there will be a 35” and 33” which has me excited, but I’m not holding my breathe for direct mount options.
> 
> ...


I think Bowtech needs to be more systematic in their offerings. They have too many similar bows and then open spots in their lineup.

PSE did a good job this year in having 2 different cams and then several different lengths/brace heights.


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## Daduate (May 13, 2021)

When do the release dates happen anyone know ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

raisins said:


> I think Bowtech needs to be more systematic in their offerings. They have too many similar bows and then open spots in their lineup.
> 
> PSE did a good job this year in have 2 different cams and then several different lengths/brace heights.


I couldn’t agree more.


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

Daduate said:


> When do the release dates happen anyone know ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If it reflects last year’s lineup:


Darton should be releasing soon
Bear will have a new flagship mid october
PSE will release the new version of the Levitate/Mach 1 in October
Mathews & Prime in November and maybe Athens
Elite will do some botched release of their bows in a chaotic timeframe
Bowtech will be December
Hoyt will be January
PSE will be dragging their feet after Hoyt
APA will have a release but know one on here will know because it’s APA
Gearhead isn’t releasing anything new this year
Xpedition…who cares


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## spread5150 (Sep 17, 2004)

A switchback v3x and v3xt would be cool. A throwback to the most sought after single cam with modern day twist. 

Hoyt laid everyone off because of covid ( supply chain issues). Then slapped the ventum pro together once they got going again. Thats why there is not a lot of difference. Quick tweak to the last bow.

Prime went”inline” so they didn’t have to have dealers changing out 10 cables or whatever it is for onebow (especially since they offer strings for life “
Hopefully they never change the grip.

Bowtech… I never know what the flagship bow is. The marketing people there are piss poor. Not the promo videos. But the webpage layout.


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## huntergather00 (Jan 2, 2022)

4IDARCHER said:


> I think you are underestimating the amount of guys on here that go through 3-5 new bows a year.


lol right shoot its more like 6-7 a year some new flashships some old. at one time someone asked if i was a shop because i was selling so many bows lol im like nope just addicted


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

I know the bows won't be better... but yet I'm still looking forward to seeing where some of the companies go from here.


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

NWIOWAGRANT said:


> Bowtech with deadlock cams 33" ATA and 8" brace height and in 320-330 fps range
> GENERAL 2.0
> Will be a very telling year for the direction the new ownership group will take Bowtech.


You wouldn’t happen to know draw length on this would you ? I would love if it goes long enough for me if not I’ll be making some calls since I know enough to possibly be told. I will admit I’m not confident in new ownership but if this is correct and they continue to make advances in the target space as well and accommodate Gillingham with the bows that fit him with what he likes I will keep shooting them as me and him are extremely close in draw length and what we want in a bow


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

bowman69 said:


> Love all these posts for a sub 4# AL bow. It’s not going to happen without a change in material. Risers are getting longer thus must have the dimensional width and depth to make them rigid, otherwise its a literal tuning fork. Why do Mathews and Hoyt lead the pack in sound dampening, or why Elite machines “cages” in their risers? Easy, risers with minimal flex are less susceptible to and absorb more vibration but do so a the expense of added weigh. Then you add in rest and sight integration, whether that be through the riser or clamped, the bow still must have maintain structural integrity to incorporate them. Not to mention wider limb stances adding weight to the pocket. Hoyt couldn’t even do it with carbon. Athens Vistas are about the most skeletonized of a riser as you can get and still sustain rigidity and they still weigh over 4#. Exactly where on those bow do you think you could removed weight while adding direct mount option like Bridgelock.
> If there is a sub 4# 34” bow in the near future it’s coming from PSE and it will be carbon, PERIOD!


For me I would love a lighter riser like the older bows I’ve not had a problem with vibration but I do shoot target bows 95% of the year so I know target bows nave more vibration that most hunting bows I want to see something from ANY manufacturer in with a lighter weight somthing close to the 4# range instead of the 5 we normally get 35 or 36 ATA long draw 33 inch even if it requires a 31 to 33 mod to do so 7 plus inch brace with a 330 plus FPS at 30 inches so long draw guys they the things we need and can make up for the speed with the longer draw lengths 31 inch max bows are becoming more common but the 32 inch plus bows are becoming less so and making guys extremely limited in options at those draws there are only 3 hunting bows that go to 3 hunting bows I know of that go to 33 Bowtech RevoltXL, Mathew’s Atlas, and Hoyts Highline I think if another manufacturer steps up in this market and makes a good bow without all the bells and whistles they could make a name for there selves there and grow from there I know I would at minimum give it a try. Rant over


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

rumor of a new PSE target bow with easier cam shift ability shortly


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## Smada962 (Dec 25, 2007)

jo3st3 said:


> I know the bows won't be better... but yet I'm still looking forward to seeing where some of the companies go from here.


Same here. My wife and I are expecting twins so I won’t be in the market for a new bow for awhile, but I’m still very curious.

I also find it funny that even with as many amazing bows are out there, there are a few people here who seem to hate them all lol. Compounds are better than ever but some still can’t be happy.


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## Kaibab270 (Oct 15, 2018)

Id like to see Applied Engineering Inc. in Yankton, South Dakota buy back Xpedition.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Kaibab270 said:


> Id like to see Applied Engineering Inc. in Yankton, South Dakota buy back Xpedition.


Not going to happen but it would probably be the only thing that would save the brand - which is already half way in the grave.


----------



## _Splinter_ (Sep 10, 2018)

Kaibab270 said:


> Id like to see Applied Engineering Inc. in Yankton, South Dakota buy back Xpedition.





Predator said:


> Not going to happen but it would probably be the only thing that would save the brand - which is already half way in the grave.


BUT they are selling in Sportsman’s Warehouse and they have crossbows in Rural King! Seeing Xpedition go from what it was in Yankton to what it is now is comparable to Ford releasing the new little SUV Mustang or Chevrolet releasing the new Blazer from their previous successors.


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## Scot520 (Jan 11, 2018)

zekezoe said:


> Pse- lower stabilizer bushing in the levitate, better shim system.
> Bowtech- bow that shoots down the middle instead of 3/4” or less centershot
> Mathews- better grip , move grip slightly higher
> Hoyt- go back to a 32” and 35” bow that doesn’t weigh 6lbs. Bare
> Elite- a performance bow 32-34”


agree with everything you say for pse


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> If it reflects last year’s lineup:
> 
> 
> Darton should be releasing soon
> ...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

LonnyM said:


> It does not feel like a 33 or 34 inch bow


If you long arm it and have someone take a picture, it looks like a 33” ata bow


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## Mr. Ken (Aug 6, 2019)

What if PSE combined the old Dominator and the Citation with a 38 inch ATA with the SE cams?


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## Strika (3 mo ago)

An 80lb, 500fps 32" bow that draws like a 30lb bow. 👍 

I still believe in the tooth fairy.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Strika said:


> An 80lb, 500fps 32" bow that draws like a 30lb bow. 👍
> 
> I still believe in the tooth fairy.


I think you’re fine until you start believing men can have babies… believing in the tooth fairy as an adult doesn’t even raise eyebrows anymore


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

I’m in the market this year but have a feeling I will be getting a 2022 model rather than a 23’… I just don’t see anything groundbreaking this year but I always like seeing the new bows regardless 

might even get a bow before late archery starting mid November, in that case I surely won’t end up with a 23’


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

Lee_Wells said:


> For me I would love a lighter riser like the older bows I’ve not had a problem with vibration but I do shoot target bows 95% of the year so I know target bows nave more vibration that most hunting bows I want to see something from ANY manufacturer in with a lighter weight somthing close to the 4# range instead of the 5 we normally get 35 or 36 ATA long draw 33 inch even if it requires a 31 to 33 mod to do so 7 plus inch brace with a 330 plus FPS at 30 inches so long draw guys they the things we need and can make up for the speed with the longer draw lengths 31 inch max bows are becoming more common but the 32 inch plus bows are becoming less so and making guys extremely limited in options at those draws there are only 3 hunting bows that go to 3 hunting bows I know of that go to 33 Bowtech RevoltXL, Mathew’s Atlas, and Hoyts Highline I think if another manufacturer steps up in this market and makes a good bow without all the bells and whistles they could make a name for there selves there and grow from there I know I would at minimum give it a try. Rant over



If you want those specs, then you will like what PSE is bringing on October 15. It hits all of your requirements (but in a 34" package)


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

Mr. Ken said:


> What if PSE combined the old Dominator and the Citation with a 38 inch ATA with the SE cams?


Can't wait to see their new Target bows man. Wicked specs


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

chenashot said:


> Can't wait to see their new Target bows man. Wicked specs


Are they putting new target bows out this year ? Last I heard it would be next year at least.


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

chenashot said:


> If you want those specs, then you will like what PSE is bringing on October 15. It hits all of your requirements (but in a 34" package)


If it goes to 32.5 like the XF I’ll have one in hand I assume Dudley is involved as I’ve seen the one Snyder has on instagram on his story


----------



## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

Lee_Wells said:


> Are they putting new target bows out this year ? Last I heard it would be next year at least.


Yep, I think they are launching tomorrow actually. Whole range from 40" ATA to 35" ATA. Wicked specs man.

And a new carbon coming on Oct 15


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## Scot520 (Jan 11, 2018)

chenashot said:


> Yep, I think they are launching tomorrow actually. Whole range from 40" ATA to 35" ATA. Wicked specs man.
> 
> And a new carbon coming on Oct 15


Man I can't wait for the carbon bow


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

chenashot said:


> Yep, I think they are launching tomorrow actually. Whole range from 40" ATA to 35" ATA. Wicked specs man.
> 
> And a new carbon coming on Oct 15


I wonder if they will announce who they were sold to. Papers were supposed to be signed Friday.


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

veritas.archangel said:


> I wonder if they will announce who they were sold to. Papers were supposed to be signed Friday.


PSE? Haven't heard anything about that.


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## Scot520 (Jan 11, 2018)

veritas.archangel said:


> I wonder if they will announce who they were sold to. Papers were supposed to be signed Friday.


i'll put my money on Morgan and Snyder as new owners


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## dad2sixmonkeys (Jun 26, 2011)

Mr. Ken said:


> What if PSE combined the old Dominator and the Citation with a 38 inch ATA with the SE cams?


And called it something like Dominator Duo….. ordered mine last week. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

More short draw options.


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## Arrow4Christ (Mar 24, 2006)

Scot520 said:


> Man I can't wait for the carbon bow


Same — especially if it’s 34” and maintains most of the speed of the Levitate. My wife very well may kill me, but I’m not sure I could resist 😬


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## Mr. Ken (Aug 6, 2019)

dad2sixmonkeys said:


> And called it something like Dominator Duo….. ordered mine last week.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


More like "Domination 38"


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

Imteresting


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## zhickman (Apr 27, 2020)

veritas.archangel said:


> I wonder if they will announce who they were sold to. Papers were supposed to be signed Friday.


Elon Musk


----------



## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

Scot520 said:


> i'll put my money on Morgan and Snyder as new owners





zhickman said:


> Elon Musk


Nope, and nope. Industry insider has said it's another big name (individual, not company) in the game.


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

veritas.archangel said:


> Nope, and nope. Industry insider has said it's another big name (individual, not company) in the game.


Dear baby Jesus please don’t let it be Duds. I can’t handle all the snot green as it is.


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## Hbowhunter (9 mo ago)

veritas.archangel said:


> Nope, and nope. Industry insider has said it's another big name (individual, not company) in the game.


Bowmar?


----------



## Gene94 (Jan 25, 2019)

High quality single cam. Not a budget bow. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

dad2sixmonkeys said:


> And called it something like Dominator Duo….. ordered mine last week.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where are you guys getting this info ? I haven’t heard anything and I normally hear something before release


----------



## dad2sixmonkeys (Jun 26, 2011)

Lee_Wells said:


> Where are you guys getting this info ? I haven’t heard anything and I normally hear something before release


Usually some shop owner or employee leaks way before now. I heard they were up for pre-order so checked with the local shop and sure enough they were. I think I got let in on the details because I actually ordered one. Other then that there’s been really nothing leaked this year as normal 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

veritas.archangel said:


> Nope, and nope. Industry insider has said it's another big name (individual, not company) in the game.


Kyle Douglas comes to mind but not sure where he would get the money, Randy kits just bought a bow company or I’d think of him not likely but wouldn’t be a shock if it was Levi I think he would like to own a bow company Dudley comes to mind as does the guy who came up with and puts on TAC (I can’t remember his name atm) Eric Grigs comes to mind but he’s a Hoyt guy Greg Pool comes to mind for some reason


----------



## Lee_Wells (Apr 9, 2021)

dad2sixmonkeys said:


> Usually some shop owner or employee leaks way before now. I heard they were up for pre-order so checked with the local shop and sure enough they were. I think I got let in on the details because I actually ordered one. Other then that there’s been really nothing leaked this year as normal
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I normally hear something at the shoots I’ve known Bowtech, Elite Hoyt and prime we’re doing something since earlier in the 3D season but nothing on PSE or Mathew’s even though I suspected Mathew’s are I was told PSE was a year out last I heard (2024 bows)


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## rZaK (Jan 7, 2021)

For 2023 I want to see Prime go back to the Shift, Centergy, or Defy as a platform and improve from there. Maybe with a split limb and nice roller guard and the newer nano grip.


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## Just Rick (Dec 28, 2021)

For 2023 I'd like to see people being happy with the small refinements each company makes on their bows. With the materials and technology we have right now....there is NOT going to be ground breaking, or "game changing" tech on every new bow....every year. We may see new tech or a new amazing design, every five to ten years, if we are lucky. We are at a place that small refinements are about all we are going to get, with the small exception once in a while. All these turds that keep saying they want a 3 pound bow, with a 8 inch brace height, with zero vibration and noise, and shoots 370 FPS...need to go get a job as an engineer at the big companies....because obviously they have something figured out that the guys who have spent a long time, and a lot of money, getting their engineering degrees...are not figuring out. I am NOT talking about the guys saying this being sarcastic and funny....I am talking to the people are are actually not smart enough to figure this out....or the ones that are SO smart that they have it all figured out....go get an engineering job or stfu


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## spread5150 (Sep 17, 2004)

The industry as a whole had to get on board with center riser designed rests and sights. I think you will see more bows with it. Prime /bowtech ect The ones that have not done it yet.


----------



## dleach1407 (Jan 15, 2014)

spread5150 said:


> The industry as a whole had to get on board with center riser designed rests and sights. I think you will see more bows with it. Prime /bowtech ect The ones that have not done it yet.


I would also like to see this. If elite releases a target bow with direct mount rest ability, I'll be interested. I don't like the way Matthews or hoyt grips feel in my hand.


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## ruffjason (May 20, 2018)

Mathews 34" ATA, 6" BH, 31" DL, speed bow. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Hbowhunter said:


> Bowmar?


Probably not that big of a name… I’m guessing hunter biden


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## Arrow4Christ (Mar 24, 2006)

chenashot said:


> If you want those specs, then you will like what PSE is bringing on October 15. It hits all of your requirements (but in a 34" package)


So the word is that the 34” carbon bow will have a 7+” brace height? Torn about that because the 6” seemed like a good trade off between speed and forgiveness to me. My ideal bow may just be a Levitate in 34-35” with a 6-6.5” brace.


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

Im with ya. Perfect specs would b


Arrow4Christ said:


> So the word is that the 34” carbon bow will have a 7+” brace height? Torn about that because the 6” seemed like a good trade off between speed and forgiveness to me. My ideal bow may just be a Levitate in 34-35” with a 6-6.5” brace.
> [/QUOTE
> I'm with you. My perfect specs would be 34" ATA and 6 1/2" brace


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

Arrow4Christ said:


> So the word is that the 34” carbon bow will have a 7+” brace height? Torn about that because the 6” seemed like a good trade off between speed and forgiveness to me. My ideal bow may just be a Levitate in 34-35” with a 6-6.5” brace.


You gotta remember, the 7" BH PSE will more than likely be as fast or faster than the other manufacturers 6.5", and some of the 6" BH offerings. I'll take the extra brace with nearly identical speed in a hunting bow every day.


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## Arrow4Christ (Mar 24, 2006)

BucksnBass525 said:


> You gotta remember, the 7" BH PSE will more than likely be as fast or faster than the other manufacturers 6.5", and some of the 6" BH offerings. I'll take the extra brace with nearly identical speed in a hunting bow every day.


Fair enough. If they go with a 7” brace height on the new carbon and still keep the speeds above 340 (or even 335 assuming PSE advertises a realistic ibo speed), I’d be happy.


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## Scot520 (Jan 11, 2018)

Arrow4Christ said:


> Same — especially if it’s 34” and maintains most of the speed of the Levitate. My wife very well may kill me, but I’m not sure I could resist 😬


I'll have one im sure


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

Arrow4Christ said:


> Fair enough. If they go with a 7” brace height on the new carbon and still keep the speeds above 340 (or even 335 assuming PSE advertises a realistic ibo speed), I’d be happy.


They are closer than any other manufacturer with their speed ratings, they have actually under rated a few here lately.


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## favoriteflannel (Apr 21, 2019)

Pics from the pse teaser


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## RH1 (Oct 13, 2012)

Man that's hardly a teaser, that's practically everything accept the specs!


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## VXR ripper (4 mo ago)

favoriteflannel said:


> Pics from the pse teaser
> 
> View attachment 7711651
> 
> ...


Needs to drop his draw length 2 inches. /s


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

Darton bringing one soon! The Spectre E 32 this year was the biggest sleeper of any manufacturer. Super fast, the most balanced and tuneable cam system on the market, super smooth, and super quiet. People don't realize how good that bow really is. It's just a bit goofy looking and a bit heavy . I'm excited for the 35.


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## 17ghk (Nov 11, 2009)

From anyone but best chance from Bear or pse 32-34 ata single cam 6.75-7" brace.


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## HUFFACRE (5 mo ago)

I figured since Mathews has a tendency to go shorter I would go ahead and buy a V3X 33. Especially at the price of a TRX 34 is.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

VXR ripper said:


> Needs to drop his draw length 2 inches. /s


That’s what you got?? Backyard champ??


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

NWIOWAGRANT said:


> Bowtech with deadlock cams 33" ATA and 8" brace height and in 320-330 fps range
> GENERAL 2.0
> Will be a very telling year for the direction the new ownership group will take Bowtech.


33 x 8 & 330 fps! I'm all in 😆 🤣! Let's go... General 2.0, or call it Sergeant Major!


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## Telerado (Nov 26, 2014)

lunghit said:


> Would love a PSE 34-36” carbon with a 7” BH. That would be the first carbon bow I would ever own.


Their are so many guys in this camp. Hard to imagine PSE not being aware of this. It seems like a lot of people on AT would be satisfied with a 34”/ 7“ brace bow from any of the manufacturers. Hoyt has one but it‘s approaching 2k. If Prime offers anything close to those specs, I’ll be ordering immediately. I like my Mach 1 but there is definitely room for some improvements. The cable guard is trash and there is no back bar mount. I’ll need to see some refinements beyond measurements before I spend that kind of money again.


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## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

[Recurve] Would like to see W&W offer marked/indexed limb bolts like Uukha does, even if it were simply min and max, or even either, just as a starting point.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Telerado said:


> Their are so many guys in this camp. Hard to imagine PSE not being aware of this. It seems like a lot of people on AT would be satisfied with a 34”/ 7“ brace bow from any of the manufacturers. Hoyt has one but it‘s approaching 2k. If Prime offers anything close to those specs, I’ll be ordering immediately. I like my Mach 1 but there is definitely room for some improvements. The cable guard is trash and there is no back bar mount. I’ll need to see some refinements beyond measurements before I spend that kind of money again.


We'll find out in a few days. I am looking forward to seeing the new shim system on the PSE. I never had a problem with the usual shims/spacers but something easier would be nice.


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

According to the Mikes Archery review the New Bear Execute 32 is in the top 3 fastest he has ever tested, and if I am not mistaken it is the quietest.
OMG let the AT thrashing begin.....................


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

Glad i dont others decide for me


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## favoriteflannel (Apr 21, 2019)




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## BigFish7 (Oct 19, 2017)

17ghk said:


> From anyone but best chance from Bear or pse 32-34 ata single cam 6.75-7" brace.


Bear Resurgence LD fits the bill, single cam, 32” ATA, 7” BH


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

favoriteflannel said:


>


Wow great speeds and awesome shim system. I hope that is also offered in the hunting carbon models.


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

FYI $1699 for new PSE DDs


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

chenashot said:


> Darton bringing one soon! The Spectre E 32 this year was the biggest sleeper of any manufacturer. Super fast, the most balanced and tuneable cam system on the market, super smooth, and super quiet. People don't realize how good that bow really is. It's just a bit goofy looking and a bit heavy . I'm excited for the 35.
> View attachment 7711674


I was told by someone who in the know that hunted with one this year that I will LOVE this bow... He knows I essentially want a slightly longer and slightly faster bow that shoots as good as my Spectre E 32... I think I overall liked my 2020 Maverick XT better overall due to the speed and little bit longer bow, but liked the grip better on the Spectre so I shot the Spectra this year instead of my 2020 maverick XT. Spectre was a bit quieter and very dead in the hand, which the maverick wasn't bad, but not as good. I'm excited for the release.


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

sneak1413 said:


> I was told by someone who in the know that hunted with one this year that I will LOVE this bow... He knows I essentially want a slightly longer and slightly faster bow that shoots as good as my Spectre E 32... I think I overall liked my 2020 Maverick XT better overall due to the speed and little bit longer bow, but liked the grip better on the Spectre so I shot the Spectra this year instead of my 2020 maverick XT. Spectre was a bit quieter and very dead in the hand, which the maverick wasn't bad, but not as good. I'm excited for the release.


Yep, I heard the same thing about this new bow too. I think it's gonna be excellent


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## nickam9 (Jan 10, 2020)

Elite Archery teaser today. Releasing on the 11th.


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## Pickle (Jan 22, 2015)

A carbon single cam with 7” brace height


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

BucksnBass525 said:


> According to the Mikes Archery review the New Bear Execute 32 is in the top 3 fastest he has ever tested, and if I am not mistaken it is the quietest.
> OMG let the AT thrashing begin.....................


Where do we start?


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## Telerado (Nov 26, 2014)

As much as I respect Darton for their contributions over the years, they need to seriously redesign their aesthetics. Weird cuts on the riser and super cheesy tribal tattoo grip plates. They just have this outdated Joe Dirt vibe that I find embarrassing. I can see the proud owner with a mullet and Marb dangle in the tree stand. Unacceptable.


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## haeleemodisett19 (8 mo ago)

I’d like to see obsession quit making the bows look like the new martin’s they are hideous and feel like they weight 10 lbs!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Telerado said:


> As much as I respect Darton for their contributions over the years, they need to seriously redesign their aesthetics. Weird cuts on the riser and super cheesy tribal tattoo grip plates. They just have this outdated Joe Dirt vibe that I find embarrassing. I can see the proud owner with a mullet and Marb dangle in the tree stand. Unacceptable.
> View attachment 7712539
> View attachment 7712540


I have to agree, it looks like something obsession would do.


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## Swampwise (Sep 2, 2015)

Mullets we're replaced with man buns. Bring back the mullet!


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## balmrmartin (4 mo ago)

beesleybraedon said:


> It’s almost that time of year. What is everyone hoping to see in this year’s offerings?
> For Mathews I’d love to see a 34” ATA with a 6.5-7” brace height with speeds similar to the V3X 33
> For Hoyt I’d love to see a wider limb stance like other manufacturers have gone to with a 34” ata again
> For PSE I’d like to see a new riser design and 34” ata also!


can some how come up with a similar deadlock system I’m in if it’s 33ata





Speed Test​


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

Very interested in the Bear Execute 32.
Mikes archery review has it faster and quieter than the V3x29, with 1/2" more brace.
Worth a look.

Definitely interested in the Mach4, Elite and Prime this year.
Zero interest in Hoyt or Bowtech.


----------



## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

Bowtech teaser. November 8th. "The One". 

Looks carbon to me


----------



## Swampwise (Sep 2, 2015)

BucksnBass525 said:


> Very interested in the Bear Execute 32.
> Mikes archery review has it faster and quieter than the V3x29, with 1/2" more brace.
> Worth a look.
> 
> ...


Bear is never a slouch in performance. Prime example the Escalate Mike's Archery tested was 306 fps and that bow sells for 750 bucks, and 96.3 decibels. Mathews utilizes soft string stops and monkeytails and they do help. Don't get why others dont. First thing I do with my bows is replace string stoppers. They really do have something for anyone and any budget. Always been easy to tune to me most importantly. I'm thinking with a vibekiller stopper my Execute 32 will be one of the quietest bows around.


----------



## OldeDelphArcher (Dec 10, 2009)

slowen said:


> I’d like to see some prices reduced from all companies.


I couldn't agree more, it is getting obscene and the pro shops are not seeing the benefit of the price increases. in 10 years I have seen flagship bows more than double, but technology has yet to catch up with that price increase.


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## OldeDelphArcher (Dec 10, 2009)

beesleybraedon said:


> It’s almost that time of year. What is everyone hoping to see in this year’s offerings?
> For Mathews I’d love to see a 34” ATA with a 6.5-7” brace height with speeds similar to the V3X 33
> For Hoyt I’d love to see a wider limb stance like other manufacturers have gone to with a 34” ata again
> For PSE I’d like to see a new riser design and 34” ata also!


I would like to see a bow that doesn't require the dealer to stock 50+ cam modules for one model of bow and of course they are always out of stock of the module you need! (Listen up Mathews with you 50+ $60 per set module scam).


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## OldeDelphArcher (Dec 10, 2009)

saglick said:


> I’m hoping for a Can cooler built in that ejects a nice cold beer after every bullseye


With the prices of bows these days I would expect a bow to not only dispense a nice cold brewjanowski, but also throw dinner in the oven and get my slippers and remote!


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

OldeDelphArcher said:


> I would like to see a bow that doesn't require the dealer to stock 50+ cam modules for one model of bow and of course they are always out of stock of the module you need! (Listen up Mathews with you 50+ $60 per set module scam).


Alot cheaper for them to stock pile the switchweight mods than build all the different limbs. They probably have enough of them for the next decade already in stock.
I doubt they introduce a different tuning system either, cheaper and easier with tophats, which are also stock piled.
Mathews has a solid system that sells by the truckloads, why change it.

Now their camo finish, thats a different story. Garbage.
The grip could use a little work too.


----------



## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

Telerado said:


> As much as I respect Darton for their contributions over the years, they need to seriously redesign their aesthetics. Weird cuts on the riser and super cheesy tribal tattoo grip plates. They just have this outdated Joe Dirt vibe that I find embarrassing. I can see the proud owner with a mullet and Marb dangle in the tree stand. Unacceptable.
> View attachment 7712539
> View attachment 7712540


The tribal stuff was already removed during the refreshing of the Maverick and Spectra during the year. While those two bows continue, with the same weird riser, the new bow will have a completely different riser design.


----------



## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

BucksnBass525 said:


> Very interested in the Bear Execute 32.
> Mikes archery review has it faster and quieter than the V3x29, with 1/2" more brace.
> Worth a look.
> 
> ...


Bear Execute does look good but can’t see myself paying $1200 for a Bear bow. They just haven’t built up the brand equity as a premium bow producer to charge that kind of money. The day 2 depreciation on one would be as bad as it is with Athens, maybe even worse if that’s possible. At $999 that Bear is probably reasonably priced but even then your day 2 depreciation is going to be at least $250. Pay $1200 for it and that will jumpy to $450. No Bear (or Athens) bow should be priced higher than $999.


----------



## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

chenashot said:


> Bowtech teaser. November 8th. "The One".
> 
> Looks carbon to me
> View attachment 7712616


This is their new 4.5lb carbon bow.


----------



## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

veritas.archangel said:


> This is their new 4.5lb carbon bow.


🤦🏻‍♂️


----------



## rjack (Jan 14, 2007)

OldeDelphArcher said:


> I couldn't agree more, it is getting obscene and the pro shops are not seeing the benefit of the price increases. in 10 years I have seen flagship bows more than double, but technology has yet to catch up with that price increase.


Maybe in Canada 🤷‍♂️ but in the US the price of flagship bows has gone up on par with inflation and/or CPI values. The cost of a 2022 flagship bow has gone up maybe ~$100-$150 USD since 2006 given the value of the USD from 2006-2022. That’s far from doubling in cost…a 2012 flagship bow was not $500 USD compared to a 2022 at $1095 I paid for my Vista 33 and V3X33. I paid $750 for a Switchback LD in 2006 which is about $1000 in 2022 with a simple CPI value adjustment. 
The technology increases over the past decade have far exceeded the actual $100-$150 USD increase in price. The dollar value does not remain static throughout the day and increased by ~$35 per $100 USD over the past decade. 
What bow company has doubled the cost of flagship bows since 2012? 
I’ve been buying flagship bows since 2006 and other than Bear moving from Bass Pro box store bows into the $1000+ pro shop only flagship bows, I haven’t witnessed anything doubling in price. 
Are flagship bows expensive…absolutely. The tech, stability, and efficiency has increased well above the price growth over 10 years.

What do you think the R&D and patent cost are for bow companies each year? That cost plus increased overhead is going to be passed along to the consumer as it is in every industry.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Telerado said:


> As much as I respect Darton for their contributions over the years, they need to seriously redesign their aesthetics. Weird cuts on the riser and super cheesy tribal tattoo grip plates. They just have this outdated Joe Dirt vibe that I find embarrassing. I can see the proud owner with a mullet and Marb dangle in the tree stand. Unacceptable.
> View attachment 7712539
> View attachment 7712540


I find it interesting you grabbed a picture of the 2020/2021 maverick XT which is quite a bit different than the 2022 Spectre E 32 that is their flagship for 2022. That said the new 35" bow they are releasing soon will be the first fully redesigned bow under the new ownership, and by the sounds of it, they have turned things up a bit... Hint Hint a 35" bow that is as fast or faster than anything they offer currently, and considering it has 35 behind the name, means that same technology will probably be offered in a shorter and possibly longer version as well. Especially since PSE just released a target bow with their speedy cams on it with some crazy fast advertised speeds for a target bow. I know Darton is pushing hard to compete with the big companies in the target world, although I would be very surprised if they did a full blown target bow redesign this year as the target side of things sells drastically less than the hunting bow side of things. They will push for their new technology and designs in the hunting market first, then next year will most likely bring the new designs over to the target bows with less change in the hunting models. I am looking forward to what they can do with the company and the technology that they have had for years with new management. This management is not like the management that has been buying companies like bowtech either. They are archery companies with great reputations, not investment companies trying to turn massive profits.


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

sneak1413 said:


> Hint Hint a 35" bow that is as fast or faster than anything they offer currently, and considering it has 35 behind the name, means that same technology will probably be offered in a shorter and possibly longer version as well.


I wouldn't count on that as they renamed the Spectra E the "Spectra E 32" earlier this year, but only offer (and will offer) that one ATA. Right now there are only two new bows coming from Darton, the 35 that has been teased (and our rep used to hunt with) and a second one that even he hasn't seen.


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

Predator said:


> Bear Execute does look good but can’t see myself paying $1200 for a Bear bow. They just haven’t built up the brand equity as a premium bow producer to charge that kind of money. The day 2 depreciation on one would be as bad as it is with Athens, maybe even worse if that’s possible. At $999 that Bear is probably reasonably priced but even then your day 2 depreciation is going to be at least $250. Pay $1200 for it and that will jumpy to $450. No Bear (or Athens) bow should be priced higher than $999.


Poor logic is poor. Buying a bow off resale value is silly, and bad personal economics.

Right now as it stands based on the reviews and specs, the Execute 30/32 is a better bow than the V3X 29/33, and less costly too. Why shouldn’t Bear charge what they believe the bow is worth? Because some guy on the internet can’t resell it at the price he wants? Get outta here with your price complaining, there’s already a whole thread about it.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

veritas.archangel said:


> I wouldn't count on that as they renamed the Spectra E the "Spectra E 32" earlier this year, but only offer (and will offer) that one ATA. Right now there are only two new bows coming from Darton, the 35 that has been teased (and our rep used to hunt with) and a second one that even he hasn't seen.


You probably have the same rep that I am friends with and talked to or a bunch of the reps all hunted with that bow... The Spectra wasn't exactly fully redesigned by the new owners either, more of an overhaul on the Spectre. It may have have a shorter or longer version this year, but you can't exactly expect them to redesign a completely new lineup in one year... I would expect 2 new hunting bow this year, a full revamp of their target line next year with another hunting bow with the technology from this year in a different ata and bh. Then more completely new tech/cams/etc. introduced the year after that. That just seems to be a reasonable approach and path that they go down. But this year will be the first full redesign from the new ownership by the sounds of it. The speeds I was given I don't think are possible with the cams they currently have unless this bow has closer to a 5.5" brace or less as it is noticeably faster than my Spectre E 32 is.


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

sneak1413 said:


> You probably have the same rep that I am friends with and talked to or a bunch of the reps all hunted with that bow... The Spectra wasn't exactly fully redesigned by the new owners either, more of an overhaul on the Spectre. It may have have a shorter version this year, but you can't exactly expect them to redesign a completely new lineup in one year... I would expect 2 new hunting bow this year, a full revamp of their target line next year with another hunting bow with the technology from this year in a different ata and bh. Then more completelyl new tech/cams/etc. introduced the year after that. That just seems to be a reasonable approach and path that they go down. But this year will be the first full redesign from the new ownership by the sounds of it. The speeds I was given I don't think are possible with the cams they currently have unless this bow has closer to a 5.5" brace or less as it is noticeably faster than my Spectre E 32 is.


We are looking forward to getting the new bows in the shop. Yes, chances are the Spectra will either get a full redesign, or replacement, next year. Our rep said they didn't want to eliminate the Spectra and Maverick right away as they are both good sellers. He also said that the new bow is a "true IBO" speed. We'll see.


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

sneak1413 said:


> You probably have the same rep that I am friends with and talked to or a bunch of the reps all hunted with that bow... The Spectra wasn't exactly fully redesigned by the new owners either, more of an overhaul on the Spectre. It may have have a shorter or longer version this year, but you can't exactly expect them to redesign a completely new lineup in one year... I would expect 2 new hunting bow this year, a full revamp of their target line next year with another hunting bow with the technology from this year in a different ata and bh. Then more completely new tech/cams/etc. introduced the year after that. That just seems to be a reasonable approach and path that they go down. But this year will be the first full redesign from the new ownership by the sounds of it. The speeds I was given I don't think are possible with the cams they currently have unless this bow has closer to a 5.5" brace or less as it is noticeably faster than my Spectre E 32 is.


The E series cams like on the Spectre don't have crazy speed, but are super efficient. The current cams on the maverick XT are slightly faster than the E series cams . They could run the E cam system and be pushing 340 on a 6" brace no problem, or build a new 6" brace bow off of the XT cam and be sitting at 345 on a 6" brace platform. Or, even better, tweak the existing cam and give us 350 at 6" brace! 

Darton definitely doesn't inflate their numbers. My Spectre 32 is hitting a 337 calculated IBO with it fully set up and tuned. And that's on a bow that is rated at 335 with a 6 1/2" brace.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

chenashot said:


> The E series cams like on the Spectre don't have crazy speed, but are super efficient. The current cams on the maverick XT are slightly faster than the E series cams . They could run the E cam system and be pushing 340 on a 6" brace no problem, or build a new 6" brace bow off of the XT cam and be sitting at 345 on a 6" brace platform. Or, even better, tweak the existing cam and give us 350 at 6" brace!
> 
> Darton definitely doesn't inflate their numbers. My Spectre 32 is hitting a 337 calculated IBO with it fully set up and tuned. And that's on a bow that is rated at 335 with a 6 1/2" brace.


I agree. I lost about 8 fps from my maverick xt to my Spectre E 32 with a 470 grain arrow. From what I was told numbers wise, this 35" bow will be faster than my maverick xt plus a couple inches longer which gets me excited... I also like the wider grip they have gone to and hope they keep that going. Part of me hopes they keep with the E series cam design, I hate strings for it, but they shoot and tune super nice and easy. I'm not opposed to a tweaked set of cams from the maverick either though. I do think they have more potential for speed as they don't have as much weight in the overall system. I shot PSE for quite some time and never had an issue with the evolve cams or my maverick so I am all for that style cam system as well. I actually kept my maverick because it shot so well for me. But I may have 3 dartons to sell soon by the sounds of it...


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> Poor logic is poor. Buying a bow off resale value is silly, and bad personal economics.
> 
> Right now as it stands based on the reviews and specs, the Execute 30/32 is a better bow than the V3X 29/33, and less costly too. Why shouldn’t Bear charge what they believe the bow is worth? Because some guy on the internet can’t resell it at the price he wants? Get outta here with your price complaining, there’s already a whole thread about it.


Nothing illogical about it. Everyone has their own drivers or motivations behind a bow purchase and what they are willing to pay.

For an unproven new bow coming from a brand that has no recent credibility in the premium bow space and for a buyer who may not hold the bow for all that long - and has a history of flipping bows, resale value is absolutely relevant, if not critical.

And Bear can choose to charge whatever they want. Heck, they can claim (like you) that their bow is better than an Mathews hunting bow and charge $1500 if they want. Whether buyers are willing (or foolish enough) to pay that is the question. I provided my initial answer - you don’t have to like it or agree. Write that $1500 check if you want - more power to ya.


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

sneak1413 said:


> Part of me hopes they keep with the E series cam design, I hate strings for it, but they shoot and tune super nice and easy.


Ha! I'm a string builder so agree on that! I love that system though. It may be the most balanced and tuneable system on the market, and ultra smooth on the draw for the speeds it's getting. You can yoke tune top or bottom for left/right deviation, or use the yokes for small high/low tuning adjustment when a half twist in a take up cable is too much. 

And..... You can twist the yokes without even putting the bow in the press 😉


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## Telerado (Nov 26, 2014)

sneak1413 said:


> I find it interesting you grabbed a picture of the 2020/2021 maverick XT which is quite a bit different than the 2022 Spectre E 32 that is their flagship for 2022. That said the new 35" bow they are releasing soon will be the first fully redesigned bow under the new ownership, and by the sounds of it, they have turned things up a bit... Hint Hint a 35" bow that is as fast or faster than anything they offer currently, and considering it has 35 behind the name, means that same technology will probably be offered in a shorter and possibly longer version as well. Especially since PSE just released a target bow with their speedy cams on it with some crazy fast advertised speeds for a target bow. I know Darton is pushing hard to compete with the big companies in the target world, although I would be very surprised if they did a full blown target bow redesign this year as the target side of things sells drastically less than the hunting bow side of things. They will push for their new technology and designs in the hunting market first, then next year will most likely bring the new designs over to the target bows with less change in the hunting models. I am looking forward to what they can do with the company and the technology that they have had for years with new management. This management is not like the management that has been buying companies like bowtech either. They are archery companies with great reputations, not investment companies trying to turn massive profits.


I read about the new owner. Sounds promising. I remember going to get my dad’s SL50 out of layaway when I was a little boy. I owned one of the early Mavericks. A good buddy of mine has worked with them on some limb designs. I’m a Michigan native. I’m rooting for them. But, let’s face it, they are not super relevant in the current archery world. They are an afterthought. The two best shops near me don’t carry them. I’d love to see them with bows that are so good that they can no longer be ignored. They have the heritage. I‘m told over and over that they own the significant patents. We can only hope they take their rightful position. Until then, we‘ve still got Prime 😉.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

For Hoyt, i'd like a 6 inch brace, 33 axle bow, with options to the Cam Hanes 90 pound Hammer mods. Some sort of shim adjust feature so when a slight tweak can save you from de axleing the bow and saving time on set up is crucial to time management. Hoyt needs to clean up their shelf and berger hole to set up a rest relatively down broadway not this crazy far off to the side so the string doesn't blow the view. If eevryone else can do it, so can you Hoyt. 

Hoyt it's time to WAKE THE FOOK UP !!


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

This should be interesting if true 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Arrow4Christ (Mar 24, 2006)




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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

I can say with complete confidence that one of those things ^^^^^^ is true and one is not.


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## Longbow_7 (Aug 29, 2008)

4IDARCHER said:


> I can say with complete confidence that one of those things ^^^^^^ is true and one is not.


So which one is true? Lol


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## KiddRoss (Nov 24, 2005)

I really hope the Bowmars are not buying PSE. I have enjoyed shooting PSE the last few years but supporting those loons is a hard pass for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

vmals said:


> This should be interesting if true
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That could alienate a lot of potential bow buyers.


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## Leviw96 (Nov 7, 2020)

I laugh at the fact that people on here think that people care that much about the bowmars. Many more people don’t even know about them. Or who owns a company that they purchased a product from.

keep making good bows and have good customer service and it will be fine.


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

LetThemGrow said:


> That could alienate a lot of potential bow buyers.


Free nose buttons and grip tape with each bow purchase. How could anyone resist?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## iuodcoats (Jan 18, 2015)

vmals said:


> Comfort is slow and performance draw cycle is terrible especially at 30.5 inches. I want something in the middle. If they can achieve it with the flip disc great. They probably wont. This thread is just for fun and if i want something that makes zero sense and is an oxymoron - its what I want. I'm not shoving it down anyone's throat.


They had this already in the Bt-mag and I think the boss and btx series. 3 settings without having to flip a disk or buy separate modules. I think they called it Power shift and it worked great. So funny how they reinvent the wheel every year. 2017 BT mag has 3 different speed modes, microsync for adjusting cables without a press, odb cams (which are still great) 36 ata, 6 3/4 brace and a true 340 ibo. I went ahead and bought one last week for around $400 and came with dropaway rest and hha single pin slider. 

So I hope they all come up with the next best thing since sliced bread so I can continue to buy awesome 2-4 year old bows for a third of what they sell new.


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## rjack (Jan 14, 2007)

KiddRoss said:


> I really hope the Bowmars are not buying PSE. I have enjoyed shooting PSE the last few years but supporting those loons is a hard pass for me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same here.


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## MattS304 (6 mo ago)

I’ve seen a couple folks mention wanting more bows with the riser integrated sight and rest mounts. Being that I’ve never even considered looking at a Hoyt/Matthew’s due to the price best I can tell that means the fancy picatinny and dove tail mounts machines directly into the riser? Similar to what you find on various rifles to mount scope rings to?

The idea looks slick but are there any real tangible benefits other than shaving maybe a 1/2oz weight worth of mounting hardware? I’m a bit skeptical it’s that much stronger, since my bow has two mounting holes for the rest and sight and those puppies lock in tight.

From what I can tell it just looks like a great way to lock you into specific vendors that make accessories to mount that way.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

bowman69 said:


> Dear baby Jesus please don’t let it be Duds. I can’t handle all the snot green as it is.


No? But, what about hearing “super” and “stoked” all the time? What about the “sooper stoked” combo?


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## nontypical (Jan 4, 2004)

I cleaned up the photo a little.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Telerado said:


> As much as I respect Darton for their contributions over the years, they need to seriously redesign their aesthetics. Weird cuts on the riser and super cheesy tribal tattoo grip plates. They just have this outdated Joe Dirt vibe that I find embarrassing. I can see the proud owner with a mullet and Marb dangle in the tree stand. Unacceptable.
> View attachment 7712539
> View attachment 7712540


Well done!


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## Telerado (Nov 26, 2014)

Q2DEATH said:


> Well done!


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## spread5150 (Sep 17, 2004)

The sneak peaks of the bowtech and elite are popping off.


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## nontypical (Jan 4, 2004)

spread5150 said:


> The sneak peaks of the bowtech and elite are popping off.


Any links to any information or pics?


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

spread5150 said:


> The sneak peaks of the bowtech and elite are popping off.


Where?


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## nickam9 (Jan 10, 2020)

Q2DEATH said:


> Where?


Mostly in the brand specific forums


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

Everyone saying Bowtech is going carbon for the 10th year in a row. Just give it a week or two, everyone’s “full in the blank” rep will have told them for sure what’s coming out. Ppl are stupid.


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

friedm1 said:


> Everyone saying Bowtech is going carbon for the 10th year in a row. Just give it a week or two, everyone’s “full in the blank” rep will have told them for sure what’s coming out. Ppl are stupid.


If you say so.


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## Leviw96 (Nov 7, 2020)

bowman69 said:


> If you say so.
> View attachment 7715344



Nice picture. I would shoot it. 

Now to wait for the “ it’s so ugly “ comments.


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

Leviw96 said:


> Nice picture. I would shoot it.
> 
> Now to wait for the “ it’s so ugly “ comments.


I won’t ruin your fun but you’re not going like the weight!
FYI More info in the Bowtech forum


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

friedm1 said:


> Everyone saying Bowtech is going carbon for the 10th year in a row. Just give it a week or two, everyone’s “full in the blank” rep will have told them for sure what’s coming out. Ppl are stupid.


Actually have had it confirmed by our rep.



bowman69 said:


> I won’t ruin your fun but you’re not going like the weight!
> FYI More info in the Bowtech forum


They didn't learn from Hoyt.


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## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

4IDARCHER said:


> I can say with complete confidence that one of those things ^^^^^^ is true and one is not.


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

veritas.archangel said:


> Actually have had it confirmed by our rep.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't learn from Hoyt.


step one of the prophecy fulfilled.


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

What if offering carbon is merely an alternative to rising aluminum prices and isn’t really about weight savings?


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

LetThemGrow said:


> What if offering carbon is merely an alternative to rising aluminum prices and isn’t really about weight savings?


Umm, carbon is going to be even higher, seeing as how both carbon and the base material to make aluminum come from the same place...


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

Very interested in the Mach 34. 34" ATA, close to 7" BH and 340 IB0 with the S2 cam. Will also be offered with original Evolve cam (330 IBO) for the smooth draw crowd.

Also really looking forward to seeing the Elite bows. 347 IBO aluminum speed bow tomorrow and a carbon riser model in a month or so. I won't truely believe Elite is doing a carbon bow until I see it. I have heard from a pretty reliable source they are so it may actually be true.

Don't like the looks of the Bowtech carbon but I will definitely give it a try.


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

veritas.archangel said:


> Umm, carbon is going to be even higher, seeing as how both carbon and the base material to make aluminum come from the same place...


OK, had no idea was just throwing that out there.


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## ruffjason (May 20, 2018)

veritas.archangel said:


> Umm, carbon is going to be even higher, seeing as how both carbon and the base material to make aluminum come from the same place...


Not sure i understand what you are trying to say. 

Most Aluminum is made from bauxite rock. Most carbon fiber is made from organic polymers. 

What "same place" do they come from? 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

The Omnia looks pretty sweet. 32 is not too short and a hunting sweet spot, fast and lots of cool tech.


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

ruffjason said:


> Not sure i understand what you are trying to say.
> 
> Most Aluminum is made from bauxite rock. Most carbon fiber is made from organic polymers.
> 
> ...


Most of the base materials we use to make aluminum come from China. We only have 1% of the material we need. The majority of carbon fiber comes from China. Hence both primarily come from China. Prices of carbon will increase at the same rate as aluminum.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

I heard John Dudley bought pse ! I’m sure he will paint the building flo green !


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

If Bowmar and Dud get together they can have a nose button that does look like a bugger on the string. With that nauseating green.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

cruizerjoy said:


> If Bowmar and Dud get together they can have a nose button that does look like a bugger on the string. With that nauseating green.


Sooooooper stoked!


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

6 new offerings from bowtech 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

MattS304 said:


> I’ve seen a couple folks mention wanting more bows with the riser integrated sight and rest mounts. Being that I’ve never even considered looking at a Hoyt/Matthew’s due to the price best I can tell that means the fancy picatinny and dove tail mounts machines directly into the riser? Similar to what you find on various rifles to mount scope rings to?
> 
> The idea looks slick but are there any real tangible benefits other than shaving maybe a 1/2oz weight worth of mounting hardware? I’m a bit skeptical it’s that much stronger, since my bow has two mounting holes for the rest and sight and those puppies lock in tight.
> 
> From what I can tell it just looks like a great way to lock you into specific vendors that make accessories to mount that way.


If you use both an integrated rest and integrated sight mount, it allows you to then mount the quiver directly against the riser instead of offsetting it significantly to clear the traditional rest and sight mounts. That makes the bow carry better in your hands and shoot more balanced with the quiver on without needing as significant a side bar to offset it.

You can get that same balance with the traditional mounts, but you need more weight on an offset stabilizer to counteract everything. The newer system gets that feel with less weight and a smaller physical profile. It’s a better design, whether or not it’s “worth it ($)” depends on your budget. 

D


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

It was easier for the bow manufacturers when it was just making a faster bow by any means necessary. Now that it's a blend of feel, draw, speed, stability, balance, adjustability, etc... it's very subjective and it's hard to please everyone. And for that reason, I don't think releases year to year really offer anything groundbreaking


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)




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## Rubberduck24/7 (5 mo ago)

Well I waited…I read 15 pages of some amazing ideas and some rather tall orders and it all seems pretty amazing. Now if we could get the manufactures to get more John Dudley’s involved in archery. Not to say everything the guys does is gold, but at least he is passionate about it.
I would like to see a slightly more machined riser from any aluminum offering. I mean take it to the edge and see how much weight can be removed before it fails then back it down 5%. After two weeks in the back country my milled AR 6.5 creedmoore feels like nothing and my 10lb bow is like a boat anchor.(exaggerated but not really)

As far as flagship bows go there are so many options but so little modularity. I want to buy a carbon riser fit whatever limbs and cams I want and make it my own. For example bowtech carbon riser with revoltx limbs and cams. 70-80 lbs if it can handle it.
Hoyt has a great aluminum riser that in my opinion can be milled a bit more but then it weighs in as much as the 2k carbon offering. All that engineering and its still heavy. What about more modularity of parts components. Can I take the new Hoyt carbon riser and put twin turbo cams and limbs and call it a day at 70-80 lbs?

Mathews, so quiet and dead in hand but also a bit heavy and draw cycle suffers sometimes when you are trying to get more performance, but if its not broke don’t fix it right? Wrong, they are slowly edging themselves out by reusing the same systems with minor changes. I would like to see a wild card from mathews, like a total overhaul in a performance bow that anyone can shoot and say damn, mathews still has it!
Elite is still growing and one day mayhave a super speed bow that draws like butter, but its because they are trying to make the changes.
Prime, well they are not stuck doing the same thing over and over. They already changed the double cam into an inline system and put up serious numbers, but everything is subjective for each brand.

I see bows like muscle cars. There was a time a 300fps bow was a scorcher but it leaked and hurt your shoulder etc. lol. Now with the advancement in technology nobody wants to push the envelope on a bare bones muscle bow.
PSE levitate is a crazy bow built up by someone with passion for change. Not change for the sake of something new but built like a small block chevy bored out cleaned up and suped up! Light streamlined and can shrink pin gaps like no other.

I shot bowtech for a few years and loved the smooth draw but craved the speed. I own a revolt x that I crank up and it shoots smooth as butter and gets great speeds. 5 year old bow, and it simply performs as good as my new Hoyt ventum 30 pro. (Revolt x 70lbs 505gr arrow 280 fps on performance/271 on comfort vs Hoyt ventum 30 pro 70lbs 505gr arrow at 286. Both draw great but the new bow is not light years ahead of my old bow)

I wonder if hoyt has made any mid tier carbon bows? Like the bowtech carbons? Carbon bows are amazing when they are done up right but not many on the market really. $$$. It would be something to see more no frills fun bows that outperform the “flagship bows” that cant even hit the IBO listings.
If they all had modular systems in some part we could make some amazing setups. Innovation from the consumers. My rant/2cents.


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## veritas.archangel (10 mo ago)

Rubberduck24/7 said:


> I wonder if hoyt has made any mid tier carbon bows? Like the bowtech carbons? Carbon bows are amazing when they are done up right but not many on the market really. $$$. It would be something to see more no frills fun bows that outperform the “flagship bows” that cant even hit the IBO listings.
> If they all had modular systems in some part we could make some amazing setups. Innovation from the consumers. My rant/2cents.


They haven't, because real carbon is expensive, more expensive than forged aluminum. Those mid tier Bowtech "carbon" bows, aren't really carbon. They are a carbon infused polymer, with the polymer being the primary material, hence the lower price. Mid tier bows are that price because they use "mid tier" materials.


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## Fixed blades only. (10 mo ago)

ballistic bob said:


> Mathews needs to bring back a retro Z7 Magnum single cam!




Ahhhhh when Matthew's made good bows. Those were the years weren't they.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

OldeDelphArcher said:


> I couldn't agree more, it is getting obscene and the pro shops are not seeing the benefit of the price increases. in 10 years I have seen flagship bows more than double, but technology has yet to catch up with that price increase.


Flagship bows have not doubled in 10 years… or even close


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Leviw96 said:


> Nice picture. I would shoot it.
> 
> Now to wait for the “ it’s so ugly “ comments.


It is ugly 

wouldn’t stop me from shooting it, I have had the ugliest one on the market for a few years (Mach 1) but that bowtech is ugly…not quite reckoning ugly, but still ugly


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## Rubberduck24/7 (5 mo ago)

veritas.archangel said:


> They haven't, because real carbon is expensive, more expensive than forged aluminum. Those mid tier Bowtech "carbon" bows, aren't really carbon. They are a carbon infused polymer, with the polymer being the primary material, hence the lower price. Mid tier bows are that price because they use "mid tier" materials.


So you don’t think they could make one? It may be enfused material but it’s lighter, and I had a carbon icon that did alot of miles and hit the ground and the mountains many times on hunt and it looks the same, my father in law has it and killed a bull this year with it. Not to say its a compromise, but its a small one to get more people into carbon. I just mean it would be cool to see a mid tier carbon(Hoyt mid tier 1000-1500 carbon bow). I see alot of people with the high end carbon bows so idk why a mid tier can’t compete.


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## CoffeeGrinder (Jun 3, 2015)

jo3st3 said:


>


I'll admit I've been pretty much a diehard Mathews fan ever since the Switchback days and not much from other companies have impressed me over the years (including Mathews some years), but I gotta hand it to Elite when it comes to their micro-adjustments on this bow. I'm impressed with what they came up with for adjustability and tuning without a bow press needed.
I'm just going off of this video and haven't tried one in real world, but I like where they went with this one and hope to see this type of micro-adjustability in Mathews and other brands in the near future.
Of course, this could all seem cool, but not sure if adjusting one thing will mess with another, which will mess with another, to the point you need to bring it in to a shop, but if it truly works it's a good step forward.


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

CoffeeGrinder said:


> I'll admit I've been pretty much a diehard Mathews fan ever since the Switchback days and not much from other companies have impressed me over the years (including Mathews some years), but I gotta hand it to Elite when it comes to their micro-adjustments on this bow. I'm impressed with what they came up with for adjustability and tuning without a bow press needed.
> I'm just going off of this video and haven't tried one in real world, but I like where they went with this one and hope to see this type of micro-adjustability in Mathews and other brands in the near future.
> Of course, this could all seem cool, but not sure if adjusting one thing will mess with another, which will mess with another, to the point you need to bring it in to a shop, but if it truly works it's a good step forward.


Just shot the new Elite Omnia and placed my order. I think you should give it a try. 

I know Mathews makes good bows and all the big name pros shoot them but I think you are short changing yourself not giving the other brands a chance. 

I bought a Mathews V3 31 and V3X 33 the last 2 years along with Elite and Hoyts flagship bows and both times the other brands beat out the Mathews for me.


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## Leviw96 (Nov 7, 2020)

roosiebull said:


> It is ugly
> 
> wouldn’t stop me from shooting it, I have had the ugliest one on the market for a few years (Mach 1) but that bowtech is ugly…not quite reckoning ugly, but still ugly


I’m
That bow would have to shoot really well for the looks to grow on me. 

I like the look of many bows more than my apa mamba 6.5. But the features and how it shoots makes me love it.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Leviw96 said:


> I’m
> That bow would have to shoot really well for the looks to grow on me.
> 
> I like the look of many bows more than my apa mamba 6.5. But the features and how it shoots makes me love it.


I still really want to try an APA…. I really appreciate the thought that goes into their bows… tough to buy stuff sight unseen, but I may have to


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

roosiebull said:


> I still really want to try an APA…. I really appreciate the thought that goes into their bows… tough to buy stuff sight unseen, but I may have to


You should buy one, then loan it to me to try out...😁


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## Leviw96 (Nov 7, 2020)

sneak1413 said:


> You should buy one, then loan it to me to try out...😁


I haven’t shot anything newer than 2010. 

I had a 2010 pse premonition then a 2002 Hoyt ultra Tec bow now the apa. I like it better than the pse. The Hoyt was cool because it was old. The grip just didn’t agree with me. 

The apa just makes sense. I have a bow press but now I can adjust anything at the range.


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## Leviw96 (Nov 7, 2020)

roosiebull said:


> I still really want to try an APA…. I really appreciate the thought that goes into their bows… tough to buy stuff sight unseen, but I may have to



Keep an eye in the classifieds.

They haven’t changed a lot since they came out with the limb stops. So a used one will be similar. 

Added bonus you can call direct for parts.
And the modules are cheaper than Mathews.


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## OldeDelphArcher (Dec 10, 2009)

BucksnBass525 said:


> Alot cheaper for them to stock pile the switchweight mods than build all the different limbs. They probably have enough of them for the next decade already in stock.
> I doubt they introduce a different tuning system either, cheaper and easier with tophats, which are also stock piled.
> Mathews has a solid system that sells by the truckloads, why change it.
> 
> ...


Clearly you are very blessed to be near the only dealer in the US that can afford to stock the entire range of Switchweight mods on the remote chance that Mathews won't ever change it leaving them with thousands of dollars of stock useless cam mods.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

OldeDelphArcher said:


> Clearly you are very blessed to be near the only dealer in the US that can afford to stock the entire range of Switchweight mods on the remote chance that Mathews won't ever change it leaving them with thousands of dollars of stock useless cam mods.


With as along as they have been using switch weight mods my dealer has most all the mods too, and not just one of each. I would suspect most Mathew’s dealers that sell over 50-100 new Mathew’s a year must have most if not all over them on hand.


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## roosiebulll (3 mo ago)

sizthediz said:


> Single cam please
> I miss my bow madness


If someone comes out with a descent solocam I would buy it


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## Gene94 (Jan 25, 2019)

Ron Higgins said:


> If someone comes out with a descent solocam I would buy it


I'm hoping it will be Mathews or Xpedition 

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## roosiebulll (3 mo ago)

Gene94 said:


> I'm hoping it will be Mathews or Xpedition
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


If Mathews released an updated solocam I would sell my Vertix tomorrow and buy two of the solo cams


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

Ron Higgins said:


> If Mathews released an updated solocam I would sell my Vertix tomorrow and buy two of the solo cams


Why?? Do you prefer slower bows 🤷‍♂️


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## Mr. Blonde (6 mo ago)

shootstraight said:


> Why?? Do you prefer slower bows 🤷‍♂️



My 2012 Heli-M weighs 3.5lbs
shoots 334fps (not exactly slow)
is tuned with a twist or two
the cam is dead simple with not a single moving part on it
It has solid limb stops and I can adjust letoff with different sleeves
I can replace the string/cable in the field.
Its very quite/dead.
The new bows are simply not that much better. I shoot them and think about buying one every year, but inevitably I dont, although I did buy a 2016 WAKE a few years a go. Great bow and faster, but different not better.


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## roosiebulll (3 mo ago)

shootstraight said:


> Why?? Do you prefer slower bows 🤷‍♂️


I preferred the draw cycle and overall feel of the shot from most of my signal cams over the current offerings.


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## MattS304 (6 mo ago)

Perception is a funny thing. Take a “slow” compound (310FPS) and a “very fast” (350FPS) modern compound, IBO. We’re only talking a 12% increase in speed, which is certainly not insignificant but it’s also far from an earth shattering difference (e.g relative to a 500FPS crossbow). That being said, if I was in the market for a new bow, would I want to buy a “slow” one? Of course not, everyone likes a little speed even if it’s just enough to get you above the bottom tier 😎


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## nck2412 (Dec 17, 2017)

shootstraight said:


> Why?? Do you prefer slower bows 🤷‍♂️


No difference in people preferring traditional archery. It’s slower…..who cares. I think all of us would agree we will not see Mathews bring out a flagship solocam bow again, but it would be nice for Mathews to release a solocam mid-price point bow. As you can tell I support single cams, but I also like everything else as well……


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## e_pro1984 (Nov 15, 2016)

Although I’m not sure I can forgive them for going to a single/straight cam system, I’m interested in seeing what Prime puts out this year.


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## Boarbon (May 16, 2012)

I put an order in for the PSE Mach34


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

MattS304 said:


> Perception is a funny thing. Take a “slow” compound (310FPS) and a “very fast” (350FPS) modern compound, IBO. We’re only talking a 12% increase in speed, which is certainly not insignificant but it’s also far from an earth shattering difference (e.g relative to a 500FPS crossbow). That being said, if I was in the market for a new bow, would I want to buy a “slow” one? Of course not, everyone likes a little speed even if it’s just enough to get you above the bottom tier 😎


say your draw length is 27" then look at those IBO speeds rated at 30" DL with nothing on the string 
your Perception might change about 12% increase making a shattering difference


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## Jay-J (Apr 20, 2005)

Ahh,,,The anual bow release season where people expect bow companies to reinvent the wheel with earthshattering new technology from a stick and a string! Lol.... Good luck fellas. I'll gladly take you're year old outdated bows off your hands for pennies on the dollar.👍


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## MattS304 (6 mo ago)

@bigbucks170 I’m making an assumption here but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to think that both the fast & slow bows drawing at 27” and “with stuff on the string” probably still vary in the ballpark of 12% when setup exactly the same the numbers are just smaller to start with…

Either way the point I was making is that it’s not like we’re comparing a minivan to a Mustang on the drag strip. We’re comparing two things that are both already at a pretty high level of performance. So it’s perception that stretches the “gap” and there’s nothing wrong with that.


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## Linam (3 mo ago)

As a short draw guy (26.5), I want the impossible! I need a bow pushing a 430 grain arrow at 75lbs @ 300fps and be butter smooth. I know it’ll never happen but my TRex arms can dream….


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Linam said:


> As a short draw guy (26.5), I want the impossible! I need a bow pushing a 430 grain arrow at 75lbs @ 300fps and be butter smooth. I know it’ll never happen but my TRex arms can dream….


PSE Omen S2 cam with the LL mods set to 75%

There’s your smooth flamethrower.


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## Linam (3 mo ago)

Deadeye1205 said:


> PSE Omen S2 cam with the LL mods set to 75%
> 
> There’s your smooth flamethrower.
> 
> ...


My pro shop said I need to shoot the XF30 with S2 cams. It’s just hard when you left PSE when the Z7 came out! I’m a Mathews fanboy but if they don’t put something out around 30” that hits really high 290’s, I’ll be up for brand change.


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