# help aiming



## Bossmoss (Aug 25, 2005)

I can hit a 12 ring or be close if I darken the ring with black marker but if Im tring to hit the 11 ring but can't see it I can miss the 10 ring. How do you train yourself to consentrate on a spot when it's not marked or stands out?


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I'm not sure what you are asking. So if I don't give you a useful answer, please forgive me.

Focus or immersion in aiming is something that you can do only when you trust your form to run subconsciously. If you have any doubts or questions about your execution, it's difficult to avoid a mental check on the back end of the shot. The great coach Len Cardinale is quoted as saying that"there are two things that prevent immersion in aiming. One is do's and the other is doubts. Both are bad, one is worse".

Once you begin aiming, if there is anything else that you have to "do", it will distract your focus. The same with doubts. If you doubt your execution, it will also distract from focus on aiming.

Len's prescription for curing this rely's heavily on blank bale shooting with focus on one part of your form at a time. According to Len, concentration is what your mind sees. So on each blank bale shot, concentrate on only one part of your form. Bow hand, release hand, back pressure, balance, follow through, etc. Your shot sequence can provide a good framework for this. As you focus on each single part of your form, the other parts are running subconsciously. Eventually, your entire shot execution will be on the subconscious level.

Again, the goal is to shoot each shot exactly the same as every other shot. Simple in concept, but difficult in execution.

Once you think you have your shot running subconsciously, Len says to start very close with a large target and gradually work back to full distances. Adding a target and distance tends to cause us to shoot differently. Shooting any part of your shot differently tends to cause doubts which cause you to switch from complete focus on the target to checking on the back end. Any time this happens, stop and go back to the blank bale & work on your doubts.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## Bossmoss (Aug 25, 2005)

Allen thanks reread what I wrote let me try and clear up my question. If i shoot at a small target dot at lets say 40yds I can pound arrows in there if I'm shooting deer targets on a 3D course I at 40yds I have a hard time keeping it in the 10 ring just can't pick a spot when thee is not a dot or different color spot to aim at. So I guess my question is how do you pick focus on animal targets?


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## Antleraddictpa1 (Dec 3, 2011)

Generally I like to follow the hind side of the front leg about a quarter to a third of the way up from the lowest point on the chest. This should get you very close on nearly every big game animal. The 12 ring on most 3d targets actually represents a small window which if standing still you would get a clean pass through on the heart and both lungs without hitting a shoulder blade. That being said, a big help would be to study some diagrams of game animal anatomy. Get yourself familiar with where to be aiming. Above all else practice practice practice. Hope I helped...


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

The old saying, "pick a hair to shoot at" kind of goes out the window beyond a certain distance.... I see what you're saying. If you can only see the basic outline of a deer because of distance... or because you're shooting from sunlight into shadow, then it becomes impossible to pick a hair to aim at.

That said, you still have to "pick a spot"... just putting your pin behind the shoulder and letting the arrow fly is normally a good way to miss.

The first thing to do is... completely quit shooting at spots once your bow is tuned and sighted in. 
After that, only shoot at a 3D target or a paper animal target. 
Buy a cheap 3D deer target and shoot the hell out of it.
You'll get good at picking a spot in a hurry.
To be a good bowhunter, you need to know the anatomy of your target animal and then you have to be good at visualizing the path your arrow needs to take through the deer... always aiming for the spot that the arrow will exit the deer.
To be good at 3D targets, you can buy cards with close ups of every 3D target they make so that you can review the aiming point you should have before taking each shot. There's no time limit in 3D.


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

The key is becoming very familiar with the targets that are used. Like dawhiteshoe mentioned you can by reference cards for all the 3D targets and this will really help. I shoot 3D with no lens, only a scope housing with a .010 up pin. There are times when I can not physically see the 12 ring but I know through experience where it is in reference to certain body lines or color schemes on the target. I will also tell you that I have learned, for me anyway, the smaller the pin size the better. Lucky for me I still have very keen vision. Actually if I could go smaller than a .010 fiber I would. With .019 or bigger the pin simply covers up to much of the target especially at distances over 30 yds. So you may try a smaller fiber. However, I really feel that if you study and memorize the location of the rings on individual targets you will find that you will be able to work things out.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Bossmoss said:


> Allen thanks reread what I wrote let me try and clear up my question. If i shoot at a small target dot at lets say 40yds I can pound arrows in there if I'm shooting deer targets on a 3D course I at 40yds I have a hard time keeping it in the 10 ring just can't pick a spot when thee is not a dot or different color spot to aim at. So I guess my question is how do you pick focus on animal targets?


I had the same - EXACT - problem! I was able to correct this by recognizing that different people aquire the sight picture differently. In addition to that the sight picture is interpretted differently by the individuals' brain. The best way I know of to explain that is to say that some shooters are more accurate using the 'spot-on' technique and some are better using the 'on-spot' technique. In the first example (spot-on) the sight pin is set to actually cover the intended target 'spot'/hair, of the arrows' point of impact. The shooter sees the pin on top of what he/she intends to hit. In the second example (on-spot) the sight is pin is set either just below or just to the side of the intended target impact point. The shooter sees the intended impact point and focuses on that instead of the pin over the spot. Pin 'gap shooters' frequently use this method for target aquisition. I use it for most types of shooting. I wander too much when I rely on 'spot-on' aiming. The main difference is the shooters focal point as they aquire the point of impact during target aquisition.
I still pick a spot - a small one - the smallest I can see and aim at. If you use binoculars it will help to pick & identify the spot out of the larger brown bodied deer 3d target (or whatever color animal) you need to focus on. (key word=focus) Don't be afraid to put your binos down, look at the target, panic 'cause ya can't see the bleepin' spot ya just picked, and do it all over again! It may take you a while the first time you use this to see the spot without the binoculars. But you will 99.9% of the time. It just takes practice. 
Hope this helps.


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## Bossmoss (Aug 25, 2005)

Mac of Michigan Thanks that was a good and different explnation. I am a on-spot for sure. Hate it when I can't see it or cover it. I was thinking a crirle on my scope would be nice didn't think it was best for 3D.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

You're welcome Boss!


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## bobstar (May 6, 2008)

have your buddy mark it with his arrow hahahaha


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Bossmoss said:


> Mac of Michigan Thanks that was a good and different explnation. I am a on-spot for sure. Hate it when I can't see it or cover it. I was thinking a crirle on my scope would be nice didn't think it was best for 3D.


Boss I am experimenting with a Vital Bow Gear Halipino (SP?) sight which is a 'hunter class' legal sight. I checked with the NFAA and they cleared the sight for all hunter classes in their sanctioned shoots. Why? I want to use it for spots - and it works great for that! Most importantly though I want to use an 'on-spot' system for 3d other than pin gapping. 
Our family had numerous deaths in the last 2 years and I could not take time out to shoot. God willing that has stopped and I'll be able to actually shoot that sight set-up out doors. 
I know lots of guys who use circles on scopes - and I might for ASA competition - successfully. They tell me that getting the correctly sized ring is the key to success. The Vital Bow Gear site can be used for IBO shooting and NFAA. Neither organization allows lenses on hunting class sights. ASA does. 
So don't be afraid to try a circle - or onything else. 'The experts' too often become 'close-minded' about what works. Don't let that happen to you. As long as you remain teachable you'll succeed in discovering what will work best for you! Most important? Enjoy the process!!! :wink:


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## Bossmoss (Aug 25, 2005)

Mac, My question is can you shot a circle for 3D with sucess? Does anyone shot a circle for 3D? I am a 3Der. I was just thinking that different target sizes and different it would be hard to be accurate. I have asded this before in the 3D section and never get an answer. So do you know if someone has tried this for 3D? I believe I could circle the spot I just can't cover but don't know that for sure. Thanks again and I agree maybe I just need to try it someone has to be the first. HAHA


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Bossmoss said:


> Mac, My question is can you shot a circle for 3D with sucess? Does anyone shot a circle for 3D? I am a 3Der. I was just thinking that different target sizes and different it would be hard to be accurate. I have asded this before in the 3D section and never get an answer. So do you know if someone has tried this for 3D? I believe I could circle the spot I just can't cover but don't know that for sure. Thanks again and I agree maybe I just need to try it someone has to be the first. HAHA


Lots of guys use circles on their lens for 3d. I know it works - I will be doing that for ASA Hunter class this year.


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## Bossmoss (Aug 25, 2005)

Mac of Michigan, Thanks Again. AT is a funny place you can get answers sometimes and sometimes it's like your the only one on here. Funny no one in 3D section would answer. Well I just might give it a try I will let you know how it os if I do.


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