# shooting "out of your league"



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Any time you can shoot with a really good shooter take advantage of the experience. Most of the time they have distince groups that they shoot with and it is hard to get into their group. Just ask, make sure to try and fit in and don't talk to much especially when they are shooting. The hardest thing is they will seem like machines and they are in or around the bulleseye every stinking shot and it can be intimidating on a 40 shot course when you are the only only one who has flyers. Don't forget they were in your boat at one time also.


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## MOPARLVR4406 (Apr 5, 2006)

I have shot with a few of the pros in close quarters over the years
Scott Starnes was a partner in a pro-am one time and his wife Dee and I were partners 2 years ago
funny story....
I was shooting a vegas pro-am next to the left handed Perry Harpering several years ago
this was my first vegas round and I really didn't understand the scoring so I asked him how it scored
he told me it was 10x and 9 in the yellow. when I asked what the other colors scored he just said "_don't know...never used those_" and winked 
all _very nice guys_ and seem very patient with less experienced and skilled shooters
I have always wondered if a really bad shooter could or would affect thier game.


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

Now thats funny. 


I enjoy shooting with better shooters in the near by vacinity. You can learn a ton just by watching, and asking questions (at the right time).


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## archerycharlie (Nov 4, 2002)

MOPARLVR4406 said:


> I have shot with a few of the pros in close quarters over the years
> Scott Starnes was a partner in a pro-am one time and his wife Dee and I were partners 2 years ago
> funny story....
> I was shooting a vegas pro-am next to the left handed Perry Harpering several years ago
> ...


Well i have shot with Scott for years now and it don't look like i have bothered his game any.


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## MOPARLVR4406 (Apr 5, 2006)

archerycharlie said:


> Well i have shot with Scott for years now and it don't look like i have bothered his game any.


Good point Charlie


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

In all my years of shooting, I've never ever run into a single "Pro" shooter, or top echelon shooter that didn't welcome me to shoot alongside of them. They may not always have been overly conversational, but they didn't avoid conversation either. You just have to learn to recognize when that person is working on THEIR game and deep in thought, and then wait until things let up before "bothering" them.

I learned early on that in order to get better, you MUST shoot with people that shoot higher scores and/or tighter groups than you do. If you always shoot with newbies, or the "same gang" all the time, then you never get used to the different mind-set of the top echelon shooters. There is just something about shooting along-side of a top shooter that tends to bring out the best in YOU...once you get used to the idea, that is, hahaha.

I know also from my racquetball career that it is critical that you seek out to compete against others that are a cut above your present skill level if you ever hope to improve. You might get slaughtered the first few times, but little by little, you gain on them; you might not beat them, but you will gain on them as you become accustomed to that next notch above.

Seek them out, they are human just like you, and most all will welcome you.

I remember shooting a Midwest Sectional tournament in the same group as Dean Pridgen...both days. There were several 'funny situations' and we all really had a great time out there on the field and hunter courses, along with the finishing animal round. I remember that, on a downhill 50 yard target that has footing so that your front foot is way, way below the back foot. This sucker is downhill bigtime. I planted my first two arrows smack dab into the X-ring and the fluorescent pink nocks and vanes lit the target up. Dean turns around to me and says, "Tom, those arrows are MEAT". He proceeded to 4-x 20 that target....abusing my arrows very, very badly....and we all were laughing the entire time. Hey, he only took off ONE of my nocks, and didn't "tube" any of my arrows, hehehehe.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

field14 said:


> In all my years of shooting, I've never ever run into a single "Pro" shooter, or top echelon shooter that didn't welcome me to shoot alongside of them. They may not always have been overly conversational, but they didn't avoid conversation either. You just have to learn to recognize when that person is working on THEIR game and deep in thought, and then wait until things let up before "bothering" them.
> 
> I learned early on that in order to get better, you MUST shoot with people that shoot higher scores and/or tighter groups than you do. If you always shoot with newbies, or the "same gang" all the time, then you never get used to the different mind-set of the top echelon shooters. There is just something about shooting along-side of a top shooter that tends to bring out the best in YOU...once you get used to the idea, that is, hahaha.
> 
> ...


Hey Tom....Dean was just being nice!!!!


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## possum trapper (Nov 24, 2005)

It all depends what habits YOU want to use to get better.The better shooters have better habits.


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## bishjr (Aug 1, 2008)

I have shot with Dave Cousins once and Don Ward twice now, and can honestly say that it has helped my shooting incredibly! Seek out the best shooters and try to get into their group of shooters. As was stated before, know when to ask questions and when to listen or watch. Simply watching and listening, can show you what to improve in your game.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Shot with Jack Cramer at W.Glen in the Sunday money shoot at nationals one year. Good guy, but can't say he was there to give lessons. He won the money shoot, but Mike2787 won the week long shooting match. Imho, no matter who you're shooting with, you need to be watching your own stuff--not theirs.


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Agreed... I moved up to improve my game. I figured it was like paying for lessons from a bunch of the best guys on the planet....I think if you approach it that way and are willing to watch, listen, learn then it can be very very beneficial. As Tom mentioned earlier there are times to ask questions and times to maybe just wait till a better time, you can usually tell though when. 

If you were looking for a yes no vote, I'd say yes without a doubt... if you want to get better then shoot against better shooters. You'll get beat up a bit early on, but if your a good student it wont last long then you'll be the one guys want to shoot with


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## drbowhunter (Jun 23, 2005)

as long as you dont let their skills get you down. it is a very good idea to glean every little thing you can from the more experienced shooters. in some cases this can save you from big headaches down the road


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## Josh_Putman (Jun 18, 2004)

I just look at it like I did when I was learning to bowl and play pool. Play against the better players and you will improve. If you always play against chumps you will just be a chump too.


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## Whitey375 (Mar 26, 2009)

Josh_Putman said:


> I just look at it like I did when I was learning to bowl and play pool. Play against the better players and you will improve. If you always play against chumps you will just be a chump too.


Well put.

Most of the better guys around here seem to have their own crew and nobody else is overly welcome to shoot with them.


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## Stubby'smom (Mar 20, 2010)

I've been shooting against better archers for the past few months. Haven't beaten any of them yet, but I'm hoping it will help. At least in the nerves department if nothing else!


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

doing anything with people who are better than you will always help. If you aren't a pain in their butts you get to learn from them and maybe skip some mistakes you otherwise might have made. It would be like hanging with Michael Jordan shooting hoops in the back yard. It always pushes you to bring your "A" game.


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## MOPARLVR4406 (Apr 5, 2006)

I guess my ORIGINAL question was geared toward the pro shooters....
Do they find it more difficult to shoot with less skilled shooters??


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

more difficult how? In one way we don't have the "push" that we would at a tournament, but that's why we shoot as many events as we can. Other than that it's just another day on the range.

When I started out I was luck enough to shoot with a good pro and some really top am's. I learned a lot from them and now, in some cases the rolls have reversed.


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

MOPARLVR4406 said:


> I guess my ORIGINAL question was geared toward the pro shooters....
> Do they find it more difficult to shoot with less skilled shooters??


I have had the pleasure to shoot with some very fine shooters. One thing is for sure, they will not sub-come to your level, it is always the lesser shooter who will reap the benefit of shooting with someone above their level.


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

MOPAR-

I'm happy to shoot whenever, wherever, and with whomever I can...I'm not so callused and shallow that I'm going to find it difficult to go out with a shooter that dosent score as high as me......Now if its a title match I might expect some certain courtesy on the lines while shooting, you know a little less goofing around but most of the time... man we are just happy to be flingin stix


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## yep (May 26, 2011)

"I know also from my racquetball career "
Funny , i used to play at a very high level , in racquetball perhaps more than any other sport playing with a better player ups your game fast - and on the other hand playing with a bad player can kill your game. Little off topic but my freshman year in collage started playing with a pro , you could bet if he could not score on ya you were about to be pummeled with a shot to the back .


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## shoeminator (Jan 27, 2007)

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but a good chance to shoot with the top shooters in target archery is at Lancaster Archery Supply's yearly shoot Shoot Saturday line 12 pm. I've shot with jamie Van natta, The hammer, etc. Great experience. Talked with Reo Wilde and others. I shoot with better than me every chance I get, keeps you sharp. Just don't get discouraged. Good luck.


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## td051 (Jan 14, 2007)

Night in day difference between the pro classes and the rest and I am not belittling lower levels either. I left MBO and just assumed I would rock pro courses as well, boy was I wrong! I Never had a bad group on a pro course and you will always learn or elevate your game while competing with better shooters. Doesn't matter which sport it is.


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## dacableguy823 (Aug 1, 2010)

striving to learn is the only way we move forward. If it was a bother to the pro he wouldnt be a pro.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

yep said:


> "I know also from my racquetball career "
> Funny , i used to play at a very high level , in racquetball perhaps more than any other sport playing with a better player ups your game fast - and on the other hand playing with a bad player can kill your game. Little off topic but my freshman year in collage started playing with a pro , you could bet if he could not score on ya you were about to be pummeled with a shot to the back .


Yeah, they do get p**sed if you get to their shots, don't they? Amazing in that "they", even when given a "legal shot" to the front wall can take exception to your position and simply nail you with a shot to the back of the leg, or better yet to the fatty spot right above the belt-line, just to get your attention, and force you to think twice before assuming good positioning and take over the middle. It is as if "they" think they own front/middle court and if you get there, then you are in for it, ha. Tough enough to score on them, let alone them forcing you to move over some extra just so they don't slam you and then they hit you in the back anyways, just out of spite...>GRRRRRRRR.
I had one top level player that absolutely hated my overhead hard-Z serves (I'm left handed) because they were coming in on him chest high and he couldn't put them away. So, he started catching the ball and then calling "hinder", and the stinking ref let him by with it twice! The next time, the ball hit this guy in the chest first, he caught the ball, called a hinder (he had a down the line shot open plus a ceiling ball (the right shot to take)). The ref gave ME the point because the ball had hit the guy before he caught it. That torqued off this top level player so bad that he started shooting AT ME rather than trying to make the passing shot or kill. He skipped several before he finally got me and brought me to my knees cuz he had hit that ball sooooo hard. Caught me on the back of the calf...oh, my, did that ever hurt. I was pretty sensitive after that and he was able to pretty much take over the game from then on. ha. Rotten doggie he was. However, what is good for the goose.....I got him TWICE in return for his "favor". He didn't like it much, but hey...so what?
field14 (Tom D.)
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Backlash (Feb 18, 2008)

I always try to shoot with better shooters (it's not hard to do as most everyone is better than me ) 
I am always open to any advice I can get from them.


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## AngelRa (Nov 15, 2010)

I found that in archery, to get good at it, you will need a coach, or a friend "pro" that will teach you and get you to become a contender. Shooting next to a "pro" is a good experience but the benefit is small unless the "pro" spends some time directly training you.


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## rossing6 (Jun 7, 2008)

I give myself a "free" archery lesson each time I watch a pro or a good shooter at work...Jamie Van Natta was practicing next to me at Nationals, and being the sponge that I am, I watched her form and shot routine very closely and it was very helpful and I learned a few things...she said that was fine, but if I asked her questions, the answers cost money....very funny...don't waste an oportunity to give yourself a free lesson, Dee Wilde was also awesome to shoot with, had some good pointers...soak it up anywhere you can, BUT pay it back by helping anyone who shoots with you who needs a pointer...that is the spirit of archery we need to foster...Cheers, Ryan


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

My very first indoor state tournament I got to shoot next to Michael Braden. I shoot BHFS and he ofcourse is a Freestyle shooter. 

I'm like - oh great. I was actually beating him up to the 7th end. I mended up with a 57x and he shot a 59. I ended up winning state and will gladly give him partial credit for keeping me sharp.


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

MOPARLVR4406 said:


> I guess my ORIGINAL question was geared toward the pro shooters....
> Do they find it more difficult to shoot with less skilled shooters??


I dont find it any harder to shoot with Am's than anyone else.I enjoy helping out with any questions they have.I often watch and critque them if they ask.Someone asked me this same question the other day and I told them the only thing I have a thing for is if they stand there and wait for me to shoot my arrow before they do.There is no reason for it at all,I tell them they shoot there own game as I shoot mine oblivious of what they do.I know they think they're helping and trying to be curteous,but it has the opposite effect on me.Normal routine on the line is easier blocked out by fluid motion by others on the line.When there is a lag or long drawn out pauses ,thats where I notice it.I dont know if other Pros notice the same thing but thats just me,LOL Shoot straight and kill Xs!


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## Blueberry_DLD (Nov 21, 2011)

I say try to shoot with a guy/gal or guys/gals that are better than you, cause you will learn from them and get better if you shoot with just your buddies or average shooters you wont get any better than who your shooting with!


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