# Nano Extreme-SST Spine Chart



## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

I got the catalog but didnt check inside yet. Good catch, ill look at it when I get home.

As a followup question, does that mean the spines fall in line with the X10/ACE spines as people were predicting?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Well... not quite. 

At least, not from my experience. I'd say the Nano SST's and Extremes fall somewhere between the original Nano Pro's and Nano XR's and the current A/C/E and X10's in dynamic spine. 

And that's a good thing. Because a slightly stiffer dynamic spine has it's advantages over an A/C/E or X10. To me, the Nano Extreme offers the best of both worlds. Sufficient clearance for finger shooters, but still a more dynamically stiffer spine so an archer can shoot a lighter, smaller diameter shaft than they would use in an X10. Not to mention the advantages of a faster recovery and no aluminum core to take a set bend.

But for some reason, my tunes always come out using a slightly weaker shaft than everyone else does. Not sure why. True not just for me, but for my students too. But all that was factored in when CX came up with their charts. They used the average between my results and the results of other staff shooters to produce what they thought would be the best compromise.

There are just too many variables to make precise shaft selection charts. So as with any chart, these are just suggested starting points. 

John


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

So building on that, as a staff shooter and recognizing that it is a bit of black magic until you find that right arrow/component combination, does CX or with some nudging from guys like yourself would they offer smaller lots than a dozen for "test driving". Buying 12 and then trying to sell off a franken-set can get expensive in the chase of a good tune.
Just a thought.
Cheers
Erik


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

I just got a catalog from lancaster and the sst's are nowhere to be seen. Got it just two weeks ago. Is there a new catalog out there? Why doesn't CX have the chart on their website yet?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

bobnikon said:


> So building on that, as a staff shooter and recognizing that it is a bit of black magic until you find that right arrow/component combination, does CX or with some nudging from guys like yourself would they offer smaller lots than a dozen for "test driving". Buying 12 and then trying to sell off a franken-set can get expensive in the chase of a good tune.
> Just a thought.
> Cheers
> Erik


Erik, I don't know if you could buy just a few Extremes or SST's to test, but you can try calling CX and see what they say. Lancaster will sell individual shafts of the Medallions, but I doubt they would do that for the Nano as those come in matched 12-arrow sets.

Unfortunately, when you choose to play at the highest levels of this sport, it can get expensive. 

Personally, I'd just tell you to take whatever A/C/E or X10 you would normally shoot, and add about .030 to the spine number, and look for that in the Nano Pro's. In other words, I used to shoot the 410 X10 but now shoot 450 Nano Pro Extremes. 

That should get you really close.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks John.

I just picked up a full set-up of 450 Nano Pros for $200, not sure how, (full length still in box, tool steel points/pins/nocks still in packages). I am really hoping they will tune for me. I have 400 Aces that shot pretty well, so once I get up the courage to set up the nanos (currently they are in my go-bag pack-up just in case) I am hoping that plus 30 will hold true for me as well. Not the extremes or sst's but deal hounds can't allways be choosers. On the bright side, I have the components now if I go to the extremes. I contacted CX and they said that the same components worked in the pros and extremes but the ssts have their own components unfortunately.
Cheers
Erik


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That's highway robbery. The tool steel points alone are worth $120!


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Yeah, that was why I didn't even check with the chief financial officer before I said I would take them. I spend way too much time here on the classifieds :embara:


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> Well... not quite.
> 
> At least, not from my experience. I'd say the Nano SST's and Extremes fall somewhere between the original Nano Pro's and Nano XR's and the current A/C/E and X10's in dynamic spine.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know whether the charts had been subjected to real-world testing.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Actually, yes they have. And more extensive real-world testing than most would ever suspect. I've personally sent CX data points from real archers who shoot everything from 2000 spine to 400 spine in recurves, with at least 7 points in between.

But just as with the Easton charts that are notoriously stiff, they will work fine for some archers, not so much for others...

After spending as much time on the CX charts as I have, I can see why it's very smart to err on the side of too stiff though. And it's not because of liability as some would expect. It's because you want to make sure you are putting everyone in that particular box into an arrow that's at LEAST stiff enough for their needs, since an arrow that's too stiff will still (and in some cases even more so) shoot very accurately, while an arrow that's too weak will not.


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## gairsz (Mar 6, 2008)

HikerDave said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know whether the charts had been subjected to real-world testing.


We sent CX high speed video of multiple spines of both nano pros and nano pro extremes. We tested all different weights, brace heights, string thicknesses, and different types of nocks. Different set ups were shot in many tournaments over the past year and a half with success and sometimes not. 

CX gave us a great opportunity to learn how tune arrows properly. Matt and I both are much more confident in what we are doing and the equipment Matt is using. 

Gary


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Michele is shooting in Antalya right now Nano Pro X-Treme 500 with tungsten 120 gr Point that have tuned same as his ACE's 430 1/2" longer with 125 one piece steel points. So, I have to say that they have almost same dynamic spine. And in 450 spine, X-treme are shooting equivalent to a 400 ACE / 410 X-10 spines. Tests done by Carla with 900 spine X-treme prototypes have not given consistent comparative results to ACE's , so I can't guess any correspondance in that spine range. These arrows are really new, so I think we will need some time to sort out a good spine chart for them.


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## Canario (Jul 11, 2011)

Best regards

Two points with identical weight but different materials such as steel and tusteno can modifying the spine of the arrows by distributing center gravity different sites?


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## gairsz (Mar 6, 2008)

Sexy new label.


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## Humdinger (Apr 4, 2012)

gairsz said:


> Sexy new label.
> 
> View attachment 1700349


Lovin the new look!


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## KASWI (Jan 24, 2009)

There is no way that those are going to work for you. The best thing you can do is get rid of them as quickly as possible and not waste your time. I actually could help you out and dispose of them myself . Ship them to me and I will save you all the trouble : )


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## chylld (May 12, 2012)

HikerDave said:


> I just got my Lancaster Archery catalog and noticed that the chart for Nano SST-Extreme recommends arrows that are two spines stiffer than the Nano Pro / XR chart.


Would someone be able to upload the pro/sst-extreme spine chart? i'm currently shooting ACE 520's with my recurve and find the arrows a tiny bit too stiff, and want to know what spine i should get with the new nanos


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

I think it will take some more time to get a real spine chart for X-treme and SST based on real cases. My daughter has shot the 900 Nano Pro X-treme in Belek around 26" with 110 tungsten point, and they are tuning same as her ACE 720 with 100 gr break off, so I have to say that comparative dynamic spine is quite different in weaker spines that it is in stiffer spines. I'm going to get new 1000 SST shafts for her to test, so I will comment about their compartive spine soon.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

Is the Nano Pro X-Treme just a newer version of the Nano Pros? I can not find the Nano Pro X-Treme on the Carbon Express website.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> Is the Nano Pro X-Treme just a newer version of the Nano Pros? I can not find the Nano Pro X-Treme on the Carbon Express website.


Nano Pro X-treme are the Nano Pro version for recurve shooters. Keeping the same cylindrical shape and using same components, they are made with weaker spine on back and front segments, to help recurve archer's finger release. 
Nano SST are Medallion Pro version for recurve shooters, using similar variable spine solution


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

Vittorio said:


> Nano Pro X-treme are the Nano Pro version for recurve shooters. Keeping the same cylindrical shape and using same components, they are made with weaker spine on back and front segments, to help recurve archer's finger release.
> Nano SST are Medallion Pro version for recurve shooters, using similar variable spine solution


Have you btw actually measured a difference in spine, and do you know know they achieved it? To me it seems like there's only two methods of achieving a dual spine shaft and that's by using less material or by changing the weave in some sort, since the shape of the shaft remains cylindrical the only option is that they made an inverse barrel shape. Both options seem rather difficult and unprecise, the the inverse barrel would be a weird choice since you'll be compromising the aerodynamic performance. 

I'm specifically wondering because CX came out earlier with a dual spine/weightforward hunting shaft a few year, and people noticed there was no difference in weight nor spine.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

I can tell you that the 450 Nano Pro Extreme does not show the advertised three spine zones. In addition the spine tolerance is advertised at .002" but is actually over .015" on the shafts I measured. Weight was as specified.


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## robin smith (Jun 6, 2011)

the only thing I hate about CX is that they do not list there shaft lengths in there lititure


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Vittorio said:


> I think it will take some more time to get a real spine chart for X-treme and SST based on real cases. My daughter has shot the 900 Nano Pro X-treme in Belek around 26" with 110 tungsten point, and they are tuning same as her ACE 720 with 100 gr break off, so I have to say that comparative dynamic spine is quite different in weaker spines that it is in stiffer spines. I'm going to get new 1000 SST shafts for her to test, so I will comment about their compartive spine soon.


1000 SST with 110 gr steel points tested at 18 mt have shown same dynamic spine as 900 NPX with 110 gr tungsten point, and same grouping.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

>--gt--> said:


> I can tell you that the 450 Nano Pro Extreme does not show the advertised three spine zones. In addition the spine tolerance is advertised at .002" but is actually over .015" on the shafts I measured. Weight was as specified.


A clear sign that NPX's are starting to cut into the market share... 

Now all we need is a CX staffer come here rip Easton to make the circle complete. 

Shameless...  What other corporate rep. comes here routinely to comment on other manufacturer's products (and never in a positive light, mind you)?

Believe what you want folks. Just pay attention to where the information is coming from, and what they have to gain by it.

(Meanwhile, Easton archers are busy trying to sort out their "good" arrows....)

Okay, back to your regular programming...


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Now all we need is a CX staffer come here rip Easton to make the circle complete.





limbwalker said:


> (Meanwhile, Easton archers are busy trying to sort out their "good" arrows....)


Didn't that just happen?

;D


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Spangler, GT is a paid staff for Easton/Hoyt. I am not on anyone's paid staff. That's the difference. 

He's a high-profile company rep. for the largest archery company in the U.S., if not the world. It's in very poor taste for him to continually come here and criticize products from other manufacturers when he knows full well they are not doing the same thing and he won't be challenged. No other company, not PSE, not W&W, not Samick, not CX, not BEST, not Kaya, not ANY other company has a full-time staffer that comes on here and continually makes claims against Hoyt/Easton, or rips their products. 

Just gt.

How Hoyt/Easton lets him get away with it is beyond me. I guess they don't mind the image it gives their company. IMO, it's very unprofessional.

And how his announcing at major international events, despite having multiple staff shooters on the line while he's talking (or not talking, his choice) is not a conflict of interest, is also beyond me. Actually, it's not. Just follow the money. Nobody at USArchery, or World Archery, is going to bite the hand that feeds them. Whatever Easton wants, they get. Period. And gt is nothing more than part of their marketing machine, complete with strategic positioning at all major events.

I've said this a dozen times before - there's a reason that so many (nearly ALL) retired Olympic archers do NOT shoot Hoyt. But most folks are so busy falling for the latest and marketing hype, they just don't notice this. It's pretty obvious if you just look. (I'd love to hear gt explain away this one...)

McKinney - W&W
Eliason - PSE
Meyers - PSE/SKY
Johnson - W&W
Wunderle - Mathews
Magera - SKY

Honestly, does anyone besides me ever pay attention to this and wonder why? It's too consistent to be a coincidence, I can assure you.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Spangler, GT is a paid staff for Easton/Hoyt. I am not on anyone's paid staff. That's the difference. He's a high-profile company rep. for the largest archery company in the U.S., if not the world. It's in very poor taste for him to continually come here and criticize products from other manufacturers when he knows full well they are not doing the same thing and he won't be challenged. No other company, not PSE, not W&W, not Samick, not CX, not BEST, not Kaya, not ANY other company has a full-time staffer that comes on here and continually makes claims against Hoyt/Easton, or rips their products.
> 
> Just gt.
> 
> ...


Clearly I'm not above trolling or poking sleeping bears. *sigh* such a troublemaker


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## AdAstraAirow (Aug 22, 2011)

John,

I would not worry about any one believing his credibility too much. Just the consistently arrogant and critical tone of gt's postings are enough to put most forum readers off from the get go.

I have also noticed that so many times he simply and emphatically bluffs and spouts misinformation, and then when he is shown to be completely wrong (as an example: Olympic archer athlete equipment regulations) he simply slinks away from the thread. 

He is simply a corporate shill.

Mark


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

HERE'S THE SAD PART ----------------

Hoyt and Easton make fantastic products. Always have, and I suspect they always will. They have one of the brightest (and nicest) engineers in the business (Doug Denton) working for them.

I shot a Hoyt riser at the Olympics. My daughter shoots a Hoyt riser and limbs. My top student won U.S. Nationals this year, shooting A/C/E's at my recommendation. Obviously, they know how to make some of the best products in the business, and if the situation warrants it, I recommend their products often.

To have someone like gt come on here and so consistently represent them in such an unprofessional light is terribly unfortunate and tarnishes what should be a great American company. I can't believe they put up with it. It takes away from all they good products they make and all the positive work they do.

It's also a big part of the reason I'm taking a break from this place, and from the sport in general. When you see the politics and inner workings of this niche sport first hand, you can only tolerate it for so long.


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