# Who shoots a shoot through?



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I do right now...but that is only because my Mystic isn't here yet.

I don't have problems with arm contact with narrow axles....but it does effect my shot....not from contact though but because I have to change my form slightly. The cables are barely moving so unless the cables are really burried into your arm you shouldn't have negative effects from a little brushing of the arm. I have shot in a long sleeve shirt with zero problems.


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

I have the X system with wide axles and I have no contact issues. :wink:


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## XQuest (May 5, 2003)

*I do!*



GATOR-EYE said:


> How many archerys here shoot a shoot through system on there target bow?
> 
> And
> 
> Have you had problems with arm contact with the cables effecting your shot? (rights and lefts)


I split the buss cable on my Hoyt and that's all.It tunes more easily for me and torque is much less.I've done this for several years.
I have split both cables but it doesn't make enough difference to mess with.No problem with arm contact ever.


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## Man-n-Pink (Nov 7, 2006)

I was considering going to the shoot thru. But Is it more consistent than with a cable slide. I'm guessing that the torgue on the bow is less and is the draw smoother. I have big forearms and I'm concerned about slapping my arm when shooting.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

divot250 said:


> I was considering going to the shoot thru. But Is it more consistent than with a cable slide. I'm guessing that the torgue on the bow is less and is the draw smoother. I have big forearms and I'm concerned about slapping my arm when shooting.


Neither is more consistent then the other.....

You may shoot one better then the other but either one will do the job.:wink:


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## Man-n-Pink (Nov 7, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> Neither is more consistent then the other.....
> 
> You may shoot one better then the other but either one will do the job.:wink:


Hey thanks BH

I was getting ready to do a search on the shoot thru when I cam acroos this thread. I really did not want to start another shoot thru thread.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

divot250 said:


> Hey thanks BH
> 
> I was getting ready to do a search on the shoot thru when I cam acroos this thread. I really did not want to start another shoot thru thread.


No problem 

We can't start to many X system threads or Frank Chugga will show up


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

I have the X configuration or shoot-through on both of my S4's. I have no arm contact even with the wide axle set-up for indoors. 

I do find it curious that a number of the top Martin shooters use the standard cable guard.  Any ideas why?


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> I have the X configuration or shoot-through on both of my S4's. I have no arm contact even with the wide axle set-up for indoors.
> 
> I do find it curious that a number of the top Martin shooters use the standard cable guard.  Any ideas why?


The same reason some people shoot 2512's and some shoot 2613's...or some shoot hybrids and some single cams.....it's just what they like.

Most of them are used to shooting a cable gaurd....and if it ain't broke.:wink:


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

I have a shoot through on my bow of choice. I do occasionally get some rub on my forearm, but usually long after the arrow is gone, and nothing that causes me any negative effects either score or pain. 

I have gone to shoot throughs on all my bows, and wouldn't get a bow that didn't have one. I believe it to be a better system (for me) and shoot better scores with it. That's all the convincing I need.

Pat


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

I am with psargeant. I love the shoot thru and wouldn't have a bow with out it for target. For me it corrected a few of the inconsistencies in my grip trying to compensate for the torque of the cable guard. Also they are a dream to tune. 

Now I know Frank will show up.


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## GATOR-EYE (Jun 30, 2006)

*The reason I am asking...*

I have a shoot through on my S4. 

I have been trying to switch to a straight bow arm which in turn is brushing up against the cable on the shoot through. I have changed my grip to get away from the cables but still have a little contact. I ve been trying to decide if my fliers to the side are from the contact with the cables or if I am building torque in my bow arm.

When I bend my bow arm to get the arm away from the cables the fliers quit......The straight arm feel a little bit more solid than a bent elbow but isn't worth a penny if Iam sending em two inches to the side.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

GATOR-EYE said:


> I have a shoot through on my S4.
> 
> I have been trying to switch to a straight bow arm which in turn is brushing up against the cable on the shoot through. I have changed my grip to get away from the cables but still have a little contact. I ve been trying to decide if my fliers to the side are from the contact with the cables or if I am building torque in my bow arm.
> 
> When I bend my bow arm to get the arm away from the cables the fliers quit......The straight arm feel a little bit more solid than a bent elbow but isn't worth a penny if Iam sending em two inches to the side.


Sounds to me like you are really gripping the bow deep into your palm.


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

GATOR-EYE said:


> I have a shoot through on my S4.
> 
> I have been trying to switch to a straight bow arm which in turn is brushing up against the cable on the shoot through. I have changed my grip to get away from the cables but still have a little contact. I ve been trying to decide if my fliers to the side are from the contact with the cables or if I am building torque in my bow arm.
> 
> When I bend my bow arm to get the arm away from the cables the fliers quit......The straight arm feel a little bit more solid than a bent elbow but isn't worth a penny if Iam sending em two inches to the side.


2 things to check one which BH beat me to your grip may be too deep. A good way to identify this is if your fliers are to the right, too much hand.

Second if your shooting straight armed and have fliers at 9:00 or 11:00 your pushing with you bow arm. Also tend to be a problem for me as I get tired.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> The same reason some people shoot 2512's and some shoot 2613's...or some shoot hybrids and some single cams.....it's just what they like.
> 
> Most of them are used to shooting a cable gaurd....and if it ain't broke.:wink:


I hear ya. But, you would have thought by now that at least ONE of their top Pros would be using it.

Is that Chugga I hear in the background?!!! :wink:


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## erasmu (Oct 15, 2005)

psargeant said:


> I have a shoot through on my bow of choice. I do occasionally get some rub on my forearm, but usually long after the arrow is gone, and nothing that causes me any negative effects either score or pain.
> 
> Pat


Same here. I have started using an S4 with the narrow axle "X" system. I have no need for an arm guard. Occasionally the cables brush my arm lightly. It doesn't seem to cause any problems.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> I hear ya. But, you would have thought by now that at least ONE of their top Pros would be using it.
> 
> Is that Chugga I hear in the background?!!! :wink:


Why is that? If it ain't broke....don't fix it. They have all tried it I am sure....but most of the benifits that people claim or see in the X system the PROS don't have a problem with to begin with (like torque). 

It seriously comes down to will the X system raise my scores....and if it doesn't then why change to it? A pro that has his or her form down and shoots well already is not going to change their form to shoot it. 

There are plenty of people winning and shooting winning scores with the cable gaurd....heck the person that introduced all of the Martin shooters to it...doesn't shoot it anymore either. and he made the shoot off this year at Nationals:wink:

Will it help some of you...YES. Is it for everyone....NO.


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## Man-n-Pink (Nov 7, 2006)

I know that happy gilmore shoots the narrow x, while coach kenny shoots it with the wide axles


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

divot250 said:


> I know that happy gilmore shoots the narrow x, while coach kenny shoots it with the wide axles


divot250,
both you and I are rather large fellows
with big wrist bones and larger forearms.

I have the Martin S4 with narrow axles
and the Barnsdale Duvawappi cable spreaders.

I shoot with a very straight arm (practically no bend in the elbow).
When I do this, if I am not careful,
my bow arm can bend the left shoot through cable
and the bow will rebound off my bow arm,
and I get a sideways miss.

If you play with your bow hand grip,
and increase your bow arm elbow a tiny tiny bit,
then you can get clearance.

If you remember to adjust the tip of your elbow
to point towards 9-o'clock,
you get even more clearance.

If you forget,
and have your bow arm elbow tip pointed at the ground,
then your forearm may be bending the left shoot through cable a little too much.


Try the Martin shoot through system.
If you decide to switch back to a cable guard,
just get some new cables,
and slap on the cable guard.

Just leave all the modules in place.


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## GATOR-EYE (Jun 30, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> Sounds to me like you are really gripping the bow deep into your palm.



I ve moved my grip out almost out to where the grip is more on my thumb trying to gain clearance.

I am thinking the X system is a lot more sensitive to cable contact than seems at first.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

GATOR-EYE said:


> I ve moved my grip out almost out to where the grip is more on my thumb trying to gain clearance.
> 
> I am thinking the X system is a lot more sensitive to cable contact than seems at first.


Are you sure you are moving it out towards your thumb correctly. Sounds like you are trying to shoot off the edge of your palm....you need to turn the back of your hand up slightly. This will roll your elbow outward....

I am probably explaining this all jacked up....if you don't understand it I am sure Javi or someone will explain it better.

But also like Swerve said watch the pushing with the bow arm also. :wink:


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## VA Vince (Aug 30, 2005)

I have the shoot thru. No arm slap at all, well when I first shot it I had a bit. Score wise, my indoor scores are up a bit. Outdoors was just a dismal year. Not the bows fault. All in all I like the shoot thru, no complaints.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Examples of bow hand position.


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## jcmorgan31 (Nov 9, 2005)

I still have the furious shoot through on my S4. I also had it on a Nitrous S4 and a Nitrous Bullet X. The last two have been replace with CAT cams, but the furious S4 remains as an indoor bow. It has wide axles and I don't have contact issues that I know of. I did on my Nitrous S4 for some reason and would end a session with a red forearm.

I don't think they are any more accurate. The forces put on a bow by a cable guard are repeatable. They are, however a heck of a lot easier to tune. They are also a great conversation starter at the range.....:wink:


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> Are you sure you are moving it out towards your thumb correctly. Sounds like you are trying to shoot off the edge of your palm....you need to turn the back of your hand up slightly. This will roll your elbow outward....
> 
> I am probably explaining this all jacked up....if you don't understand it I am sure Javi or someone will explain it better.
> 
> But also like Swerve said watch the pushing with the bow arm also. :wink:


That's a good point....after first trying to go from deep in the palm to the proper "across the thumb pad" I did the same thing. It felt like the bow was gonna fly out my hand and hit me in the face. You have to find that point between as little contact with your pad and flying out your hand as possible. To put this in muscle memory I would make sure I grip in the proper place first then get set to draw. If it was not right I would let down until I got it right then I would draw. Now it is becoming second nature but it took about a week of that and blank baleing before I was comfortable with the change.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

:embara: Don't overdue it and get the bow too far out on your thumb. It will take you a while to figure out you have really screwed up! If your thumb is hurting and your bow arm is getting tired for some odd reason you have gone too far out towards your thumb. :embara: I know this for a fact..........


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*I also have the X system*

I have no contact issues! I just changed to the X system this year. I used the cable guard system for last years indoor season. BTW, it's an S-4. I really don't see any difference in accuracy, or shootability. But it is a breeze to adjust timing, and maintain 0 cam lean! However, if you do have to press it, and twist, or change your string. It is a pain in the butt, trying to fish, the end loops of the string, through the cams! So each have their pros and cons. I will probably stay with the X system, for the tuning ease.


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## GATOR-EYE (Jun 30, 2006)

Kstigall said:


> :embara: Don't overdue it and get the bow too far out on your thumb. It will take you a while to figure out you have really screwed up! If your thumb is hurting and your bow arm is getting tired for some odd reason you have gone too far out towards your thumb. :embara: I know this for a fact..........


Hummmmm.......:sad: I think I'll work on that grip a little more....I am starting to feel your pain after shooting last night......thanks.

I worked with it a little more last night. Don't think I'll ever get a straight arm with a shoot through system. 

One thing I am finding is, if my arm does touch the cable it sends the arrow to the side about a inch or so. 

When I was using the cable spreaders I don't remember that being a problem so I got to looking at the fletching clearance. 
I have just enough clearance to squeak the fletching thought the cables. what I think is happening is when the cable does rub a little on my arm it's just enough to hit the fletching and sending the shot to the side.

Hate to say...Something so simple been kickin my butt for almost two weeks.:zip: Thanks for everybodys help


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

pennysdad said:


> I will probably stay with the X system, for the tuning ease.


That is the one thing I find to be the biggest plus and what I will miss most....and maybe the only thing I will miss really.:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

GATOR-EYE said:


> Hummmmm.......:sad: I think I'll work on that grip a little more....I am starting to feel your pain after shooting last night......thanks.
> 
> I worked with it a little more last night. Don't think I'll ever get a straight arm with a shoot through system.
> 
> ...


I don't think the arm contact is causing that...unless it is so much that it is causing the cable to contact the arrow also. Sounds to me like you are pushing to much with the bow hand/arm on some shoots and pushing them out there.


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

That's a good thought to have.....If you are missing left/right you know you are slacking on your grip. :wink: When I finally fix a problem I have been having I make a note of it. Once I got more accustomed to the grip I started shooting better but then I leveled off....I started missing slightly high and slightly left. After pulling my hair out I finally realized what the bubble on my scope is for. :doh: Now that I was not torquing the bow...it was out of balance. After checking my third axis in the vise I started playing with the moveable weights with my stabs and boom...fixed. Now I know what balanced feels like I'm playing with different reticles. :wink: But I said all that to say that I really think the shoot through system is what is allowing me to really elevate my learing curve about what works for me. If something is out of sorts a bit, I can easily figure out if it's me or the bow. (usually me) and get to work fixing it instead of having to take it to a shop and let someone make the bow fit to my form problems.


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## Po_Boy (Jun 3, 2006)

nuts&bolts said:


> I shoot with a very straight arm (practically no bend in the elbow).
> When I do this, if I am not careful,
> my bow arm can bend the left shoot through cable
> and the bow will rebound off my bow arm,
> and I get a sideways miss.


I had the same problem but on every shot. No matter how much I changed my grip or elbow the cables would bounce off my forearm and kick the bow out. It didn't hurt, just annoying. I loved the adjustability of the shoot through and wish it would have worked for me, but it didn't and now I have a Mini M-Pro on my S4. 

Scott


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

pennysdad said:


> I have no contact issues! I just changed to the X system this year. I used the cable guard system for last years indoor season. BTW, it's an S-4. I really don't see any difference in accuracy, or shootability. But it is a breeze to adjust timing, and maintain 0 cam lean! However, if you do have to press it, and twist, or change your string. It is a pain in the butt, trying to fish, the end loops of the string, through the cams! So each have their pros and cons. I will probably stay with the X system, for the tuning ease.


The ease of access to the string and checking cam lean was a big advantage the Nitrous has over the Furious. I'll probably set the incoming Mystic up with a cable guard. Even though I think I had sufficient success with the Nitrous-X on the Cougar.


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## C Doyle 88 (Sep 1, 2007)

*shoot through cables*

Stick with your ST cables.

You have a bow with a perfect centerline, dont loose track of that.

Sometimes the textbook method dosnt apply to every one.

I dont draw with straight arm, but straighten it at the end of the draw when I roll my front shoulder in so I'm looking over my shoulder, at my grip, seeing nuckles of hand at 45`. My form setup is very relaxed this way and still has rock solid windage center. 

I would suggest taking anything critical out of the mix until your form is confident for you, such as fat shafts, or changes in fletch. 

I got some 30X and figured I'd use them when I was shooting 315 or more. I was right there cus I tried them to soon and I went from counting X's to lucky to catch 10's with fat shafts. So I put the fats up for a while, adjusted the rest for my 2014's , and started counting X's again right away, maybe I'll be ready for 30X next Mo.

The point is you must be comfortable, to be able to have confidence that your next shot will be as good as your best shot. 

Until that confidence is attained, we need all the forgivness we can muster.

Small set back, you'll get it, hang in there.

Have fun !!!!! ---doyle---


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

I shoot a shoot though system and don't have any problems now. I did a little when I first started. Read what Nuts and Bolts posted. That was my problem and a form adjustment fixed me right up :thumb_up:


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## blondstar (Aug 15, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> Sounds to me like you are really gripping the bow deep into your palm.


Does the grip really make a difference in the shoot thru? I use a shoot thru with my P3 and I had to change my grip compared to my Slayer with the cable slide. I just thought this was the way the bow like to be handled sort of speaking. I have a straight arm always have. This is the first time I have shot a shoot thru any more advice on this system?


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

I am a die hard shoot through cable system guy.
I hate cable guards period...................

I have always shot real well with them.

Very tunable, forgiving, they tend to stay in time better, faster arrow speed


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## r2t2 (Feb 8, 2003)

I find that opening ones stance will cure some problems of string slap on the arm.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Not to hy-jack this thread, but what make and model is the bow in this picture?


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> Not to hy-jack this thread, but what make and model is the bow in this picture?


My guess is a Bowtech Equalizer or Tribute.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> My guess is a Bowtech Equalizer or Tribute.


Marcus is shooting an Alligence.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Marcus is shooting an Alligence.


That was another choice I had. Tough to tell the slight difference in axle-to-axle length on all those models.

So that is Marcus. Looks like from the scope position he wasn't shooting a short distance. :wink:


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