# Outdoor ring shooters only - what string material?



## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

These string materials were out of my mind all the way I always relied on the builder to give me the best, but now I suppose to replace strings again on my DST.
I believe we would agree that "The speed is not a first important - shooting rings on long distances - but the material/length consistency". 
So, from this standpoint, would the 452 be a most stable material choice for both the string and cable material against the elements? 
Two weeks ago we had a major heat-stress on the Field tournament day, and including myself everybody drop scores aggressively (yes I know, I shall not blame all on 8190) and I am expecting that we just running deeper into a summer heat, so lets do something about string/cables qualities. 
Anybody FITA/Field competition shooter have a closer experience? I shall order two sets these days, need opinions.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

452 cables 28 strand 
8125 string 20 strand

Has been my fix for years. I tried 452 string but it had to much buzz at full draw for my liking. 
Blue x


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Blue X said:


> 452 cables 28 strand
> 8125 string 20 strand
> 
> Has been my fix for years. I tried 452 string but it had to much buzz at full draw for my liking.
> Blue x


The sound shall not be a big issue, my OK Absolute DST38, it has two cable stops anyway. #60 set to #57/23
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2230683&highlight=string
The bow have four cables and a string, 24 strands shall be enough? Last year on my DST40 I had 18 strands....
The string material is my biggest concern, I don't know what I want............ I just don't want it stretchy......


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Why not BCY X for the string?


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

452x has been proven as the most stable material for about a decade now. Read through this thread since the same thing is being discussed. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2278605


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

bigHUN said:


> The sound shall not be a big issue, my OK Absolute DST38, it has two cable stops anyway. #60 set to #57/23
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2230683&highlight=string
> The bow have four cables and a string, 24 strands shall be enough? Last year on my DST40 I had 18 strands....
> The string material is my biggest concern, I don't know what I want............ I just don't want it stretchy......


I ain't talking about the sound man. High freq Buzz traveling thru the 452 string from muscles at full draw. Not off x buzz but high freq barely seen in my sight buzz. 8125 deadens that out for me. 

I do higher cable strands to create more holding weight, not so they'll stand up better. 
With ur bow 15 each would hold till the end of time. If U want more holding weight 
Go thicker 

That's all I know, I'm out. 
Blue X


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I've been using BCY-X for strings and cables w/o any issues this summer and it's been hot. Another non-blended material that I've grown fond of is Dynaflight 10 which is now called Force 10. The Dynaflight 10/Force 10 material holds up quite well in the heat. My Dominator Max has Dynaflight 10 on it and I accidently left it in the hot car all afternoon the other day and found no issues besides some sweating wax. Like Blue X, I also use more strands for cables to get more holding weight as well.


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

I have read that the new materals like Fury and BYC X are very good.But I have had very good strings built from master string builders with 452x for a decade with out heat issues just this week shooting in 100 degrees had a 452x strings that had been shoot almost every for a year and a half ya my shooting was off but when I got home checked the strings were right on my timing marks I shot bad because it was HOT.


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

bigHUN said:


> These string materials were out of my mind all the way I always relied on the builder to give me the best, but now I suppose to replace strings again on my DST.
> I believe we would agree that "The speed is not a first important - shooting rings on long distances - but the material/length consistency".
> So, from this standpoint, would the 452 be a most stable material choice for both the string and cable material against the elements?
> Two weeks ago we had a major heat-stress on the Field tournament day, and including myself everybody drop scores aggressively (yes I know, I shall not blame all on 8190) and I am expecting that we just running deeper into a summer heat, so lets do something about string/cables qualities.
> Anybody FITA/Field competition shooter have a closer experience? I shall order two sets these days, need opinions.


 Build for feel on the shot - especially on your dual cams -
cable stretch should be a non issue 
less wax is more better most always - 

http://www.bcyfibers.com/FAQs.php


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

dua lam pa said:


> ...less wax is more better most always...


this.....:zip:.....I just waxed well a night earlier down in my ice cold basement, then left my bow overnight in my car trunk, in the morning I ran to the range and we started scoring in 10 minutes....first round wasn't that so bad but in second Field run at noon the wax probably just screw up my game :BangHead:

anyway, 
I like the 57lbs peak and 23 lbs holding weight, 24 strands cables and I can go max 0.110" centerserving on string (Beiter #2 Hunter pin-out nocks groove size) this again I believe 24 strands.....
RayKnight is busy, who else is building high end stuff for competition bows?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

452X during my Field days. Most miserable weather ever at this Two Day State Championship. Heat horrible and humidity worse. Purely dripping wet before we started each day. People had the life sucked out of them each day. No one in my group complained of a loss of accuracy.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

28 string 32 cables 452x natural


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

this what I like to hear, from people like to shoot for scoring and taking well care of that,
thanks guys


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

N7709K said:


> 28 string 32 cables 452x natural


Jimmy Crickets - whats your let off ? 

Im sold on the natural as well - pretty for a day -


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I don't think you guys know what heat is. I shot a field round tournament last year at 119 degrees. I was trying some 8190 that I won in the drawing at Redding. No problems all summer with the 8190. Now I'm using Fury that was given to me at Vegas. So far no problems other that the colors faded very quickly in the heat. Two years ago, I used 452X and again no problems.

Years ago fastflight and wooden limbs changed the impact of the arrow at only a couple thousand feet altitude or 10 degrees of heat. The new material today has never been a problem changing impact. I hope to try BCY X next year. I do make my own strings as I have for over 50 years and did so in many shops that I worked for. And I do shoot out to 100 yards without any change in grouping at up to 120 degrees.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Indoor - 452x. 

Outdoor - I used to spec out 452x cables and 8125 strings. Now it's BCY X. 

My son and I have had horrid luck with 8190. I'll never use or buy that material again. One set of BCY 8190 cables will change with temp and humidity at the drop of a hat. Another set just toasted strands after 500 shots. I took it off both mine and my son's bows and have never used 8190 since.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

huteson2us2 said:


> ...I don't think you guys know .....


Me in Canada....we have winter colds (I was in Winnipeg on contract over winter, I marked in the 2014 calendar four days -50C = -58F) and this summer couple days so far close to 40C = 104F in the shade deep down in the swamp was a bit humid to) at home measuring average humidity never below 50%...
half of my Field course didn't had any shade from spots till aiming.... 
anyway, I believe any new string will hold up just well, but my string in example gets a thousand shots per week average since May we started outdoor practices.....after the tournament I toke out the string when I got home and just free laying on the table it was longer for 1/2"....


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## jaydub (May 16, 2008)

I have **** every material from bcy and brownell. Strings aren't my main source of income, but I did build and sell 250+ sets last year.
I shoot a dst 40
I can't get away from rhino. 18 strand string, 16 strand cables. I live in florida, where it's hot and humid. Rhino has never moved.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

52% ish on my vantage think I'm bout 57% on my pro comp


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

N7709K said:


> 28 string 32 cables 452x natural


I use 452X with the same strand count, but use red & black colors. The 32 strand cable gives me a firmer wall. 

Is there an advantage to the natural color?

Allen


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Longer life is most of why I run it- not dyed and it seems to hold up better to the abuse I put it through


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

My usual is 452x with 24 strand string and 28 strand cables--I use blues, blacks, reds, and silver without any noticeable degradation (except the usual slight fuzziness common with 452x) or appreciable movement.

On my other bow I am trialing The Fury with 32 strand string and 36 strand cables. No performance difference between the two, but the Fury does not fuzz like the 452x. The colors also seem not to fade as quickly (at least the red/black combinations). The Fury does seem to produce a tighter bundle. Will have more information after the end of this outdoor season.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

On my DST (4 cables and a string) I am afraid to go more then 24 strands, because I am tuning the limbs/cams with cables (without a press right there on the shooting lane) and already have the issues half twist too much or half twist not enough....I believe the thicker cables may be worst but can't say never had 20 + before....


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

bigHUN said:


> On my DST (4 cables and a string) I am afraid to go more then 24 strands, because I am tuning the limbs/cams with cables (without a press right there on the shooting lane) and already have the issues half twist too much or half twist not enough....I believe the thicker cables may be worst but can't say never had 20 + before....


Several years ago, when I shot a Nitrous X, I started out shooting 12 strands of 450 for the cables. But on advice from DarrinM, I added 2 strands & got a much firmer wall. However, I had the same problem as you until I started building them slightly shorter so there were fewer twists in each cable. I started out with about 1 twist per 2 inches. The fewer twists, the less each twist shortens the cable. 

Allen


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

452X String & cables Works GREAT. Set up bow in WI. & sight settings 35 degree weather go to Redding & 88 to 97 degrees with humidity every thing stayed the same.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

I see where this is the Intermediate/Advanced Competitive archery forum, and see where there are a couple of threads asking about arrow tuning and stabilizer setups that were moved out of here, I assume because they aren't intermediate/advanced enough? But this thread asking what string material can stay? This is a pretty beginner question also, so what's the difference? Just trying to figure out what I can or can't post here.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

SlickNickel said:


> ...this thread asking what string material can stay....


...and...what have you pickup from here?


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## ElMuchoHombre (Aug 17, 2013)

SlickNickel said:


> I see where this is the Intermediate/Advanced Competitive archery forum, and see where there are a couple of threads asking about arrow tuning and stabilizer setups that were moved out of here, I assume because they aren't intermediate/advanced enough? But this thread asking what string material can stay? This is a pretty beginner question also, so what's the difference? Just trying to figure out what I can or can't post here.


Just a guess, but this thread deals as much with twist ratios and number of strands to accomplish a specific purpose. That's not generalized, it's very specific and most bowhunters and casual shooters will not care enough to try and understand it.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

That as well as consistency in heat and vibration at full draw.
This thread is on the int-adv side of the grey area IMO. 
There are still threads about stabs... Just ones that make more sense here. Not which to buy or what is legal, but more detailed set up issues.
Until we can ALL agree on what the exact line in the sand is, there will be some threads in the grey area. Some will move, some won't.
You'll note that most often when a thread is moved, a link to it is still visible for a few days after it's moved incase anyone wanted to reply to it.
As ElMuchoHombre noted, this is a bit more advanced than the average "what string should I buy" thread found in gen arch discussion.


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## Carbofastdirect (Nov 25, 2013)

jaydub said:


> I have **** every material from bcy and brownell. Strings aren't my main source of income, but I did build and sell 250+ sets last year.
> I shoot a dst 40
> I can't get away from rhino. 18 strand string, 16 strand cables. I live in florida, where it's hot and humid. Rhino has never moved.



Im using rhino also on my dst 40, built by ray knight. Holding spec perfectly. Dont get much differences in temp here though, its always cold and wet!!!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

ElMuchoHombre said:


> Just a guess, but this thread deals as much with twist ratios and number of strands to accomplish a specific purpose. That's not generalized, it's very specific and most bowhunters and casual shooters will not care enough to try and understand it.


The thread turned into that, but the original post was asking what string material, as he had always just relied upon the string builder to determine that for him. Later on he even ask what builder he should use. I'm not picking on the original poster at all. Lots of people have these questions, and there is nothing wrong with that, I have just seen some threads moved, and, while lurking, seen a lot of people saying that these types of threads are better served in the general discussion. I'm just trying to learn the boundaries.



Mahly said:


> That as well as consistency in heat and vibration at full draw.
> This thread is on the int-adv side of the grey area IMO.
> There are still threads about stabs... Just ones that make more sense here. Not which to buy or what is legal, but more detailed set up issues.
> Until we can ALL agree on what the exact line in the sand is, there will be some threads in the grey area. Some will move, some won't.
> ...


Your the moderator, so good enough for me. As for the question, I used to build strings and the tried and true material, as it has already been said, is 452x. I quit building just before the BCY X material came out, so I haven't built from it yet. The thing is though, BCY X is a blended material just like 452x, with a higher quality dyneema (SK90 instead of SK75). Basically 452x is a blend of vectran and BCY 8125. BCY X is a blend of vectran and BCY 8190. That said, 452x has a higher percentage of vectran than does BCY X, which in my opinion, at this point, still makes it a little more stable than the new X material. Many string builders will argue that point, but I have BCY X on two bows right now in which I bought from different string builders, and I lost poundage on both bows due to cable stretch. I just received another set made from BCY X for my Pro Edge Elite, these are made by my "go to" string builder since I gave it up. If they stretch and move built by this guy, then I will say that it is the material, if they are more stable than the other sets, then I will say it was the builders. If this set moves as much as the other 2 sets that I've had, then I'm going back to 452x.

As far as builders go, there are a lot of good builders out there using the same equipment and same processes. I like Brad Patsy at 60x Custom Strings.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

You will have the most movement (creep, stretch ,etc) from the 100% dyneema materials such as 8125 and 8190. I will say though, that I built a lot of string and cable sets from 8190 with zero complaints. People who wanted the 8190 (because they heard it was faster) I always recommended 8190 string and 452x cables. That was a really nice combination. The speed gain with these dyneema materials over the blended, in my testing, has been very minimal.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

jaydub said:


> I have **** every material from bcy and brownell. Strings aren't my main source of income, but I did build and sell 250+ sets last year.
> I shoot a dst 40
> I can't get away from rhino. 18 strand string, 16 strand cables. I live in florida, where it's hot and humid. Rhino has never moved.


I have been wanting to give the Rhino material a try myself. Good to hear positive comments about it.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

SlickNickel said:


> You will have the most movement (creep, stretch ,etc) from the 100% dyneema materials such as 8125 and 8190..... People who wanted the 8190 ...because they heard it was faster)...


Here is a main difference between leisure tossing logs and shooting for points....
I don't care for speed shooting at rings, but I need the most predictable consistency.....
if the material is uncontrollable stretching do to heat and/or other elements, we can not predict that with any - creep tuning....
let see if @ FITA 50 meters my precision is a size of the 10 ring and the stretch adds offset just a single 1" ....then at 70 and beyond the POI is definitely out of yellow.....
or, lets talk in Field language, no need for any longer shots just assume 45 yards downhill shot, or 50 uphill.....the stretching string/cables brings a full bucket of surprises ...


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Blue X said:


> .... High freq Buzz traveling thru the 452 string from muscles at full draw. Not off x buzz but high freq barely seen in my sight buzz....Blue X


Now, what about this buzz, I assume the three stabilizer setup shall take care of it? Some time ago it was really popular dressing up the bow with rubber...


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

bigHUN said:


> Now, what about this buzz, I assume the three stabilizer setup shall take care of it? Some time ago it was really popular dressing up the bow with rubber...


tension has to travel thru the string to get to the stabilizers. No need to have to deaden in the front, what you can stop from the back.If it dont make it to the front then you dont see it in your sight.

452x I feel a little high freq buzz being transferred into my bow from my back since the string is in the middle of both ends and there is dynamic tension on both ends, what's in the middle is the string. I can cut a lot of the buzz out with the 8125. Where its not as hard of material it has a deadening effect of misguided tension before it makes it to the stabilizers and the sight. 

I dont see a lot of people on here still useing 8125 but for me it is the most awesome string material I ever used. I never had any string stretch. 

Just put something on there and shoot strings are cheap if you dont like it throw it over the hill and get you another kind. I dont really hear anybody useing the string for dampening ability but I can see and feel a difference with the softer 8125. It seems to me to be a more forgiving material overall. I must be the only one though from reading this. 

adding Rubber to help with before shot problems, lol ur cracking me up. everybody wanting stuff that dont move the steel cable might make a comeback. 

Good luck
Blue X


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

agree with you that there must be some "give", only..... I already got my lesson over this heat-stretch....
vibration? I have plenty of them from all five cables.... that may be one of the reasons OK put those double string stops


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

Darn Bow porn!! Look away look away!! My eyes my eyes!! thats a good looking bow. I saw du lam pas ok last month, the first one I ever seen In person. Very high quality piece of equipment. Had a good feel to it that I cant explain or understand, but it was sure nice. 


Blue X


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

Blue X said:


> Darn Bow porn!! Look away look away!! My eyes my eyes!! thats a good looking bow. I saw du lam pas ok last month, the first one I ever seen In person. Very high quality piece of equipment. Had a good feel to it that I cant explain or understand, but it was sure nice.
> 
> 
> Blue X


 scared to choot it he was - afraid of the dents it leaves in a mans pockets most likely ?


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## Carbofastdirect (Nov 25, 2013)

heres its big brother DST 40 same colour scheme too


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

bigHUN said:


> Here is a main difference between leisure tossing logs and shooting for points....
> I don't care for speed shooting at rings, but I need the most predictable consistency.....
> if the material is uncontrollable stretching do to heat and/or other elements, we can not predict that with any - creep tuning....
> let see if @ FITA 50 meters my precision is a size of the 10 ring and the stretch adds offset just a single 1" ....then at 70 and beyond the POI is definitely out of yellow.....
> or, lets talk in Field language, no need for any longer shots just assume 45 yards downhill shot, or 50 uphill.....the stretching string/cables brings a full bucket of surprises ...


I didn't mean to offend you by saying that this is a basic question that could have been answered in the general forum. I don't necessarily have a problem with basic questions like this being in this forum, as I understand that a lot of people would like to hear from other competitive shooters. My first post in this thread was just me trying to find the boundaries here in this forum. What string material and what builder, in my eyes, are no different than what stabilizer. String builders make every set of strings the same, in regards to stretching time, stretching tension, serving tension, etc. There is no difference between a string set for a target bow and a string set for a hunting bow. Everyone wants the best material, and don't want to have peep rotation, creep, or the bow coming out of tune. The material choices are the same, the serving choices are the same, and the build process is the same. If a hunter wants more strands for more holding weight, a custom builder will do that for them just the same as they would for a target shooter.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

bigHUN said:


> Here is a main difference between leisure tossing logs and shooting for points....
> I don't care for speed shooting at rings, but I need the most predictable consistency.....
> if the material is uncontrollable stretching do to heat and/or other elements, we can not predict that with any - creep tuning....
> let see if @ FITA 50 meters my precision is a size of the 10 ring and the stretch adds offset just a single 1" ....then at 70 and beyond the POI is definitely out of yellow.....
> or, lets talk in Field language, no need for any longer shots just assume 45 yards downhill shot, or 50 uphill.....the stretching string/cables brings a full bucket of surprises ...


I'm a field shooter and have been using 452x, 8190, Dynaflight 10, Trophy and BCY-X without any movement issues on any of my bows. I will say I am a 28" draw length shooting 50# so what I have experienced may have been different if I was shooting 70# and 30"... but I'm not. Initially, I thought 8190 was moving in the heat but found this to be a wax melt issue, not a material movement issue. Because 8190 and BCY-X are such a small diameter wax displacement can make a string "look" like it's stretching more than a string made from a larger diameter material. Simply put: More wax between smaller strands = more wax to move. I found that burnishing any excess wax out of the string before twisting fixed the 8190 issue. Built correctly, I found 8190 to be a very stable material. I haven't had the problem with BCY-X but this product (at least the spools I have) has had low wax content and I burnish as I do with the 8190. Making strings is a fairly simple process... getting them right is another matter. IMO, most string related issues with todays modern materials are most likely process related, not material related. Of course if you shoot in 120 degree temps any non-blended material will most likely move as 100% HMPE material has a low melt temperature and there's no way to change that.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

aread said:


> I use 452X with the same strand count, but use red & black colors. The 32 strand cable gives me a firmer wall.
> 
> Is there an advantage to the natural color?
> 
> Allen


I don't think there is an advantage with Natural over the other colors besides that Natural doesn't have any wax in it. Some think that will give you more speed but it shouldn't be enough to matter. I suppose it also may have less tendency to creep due to the wax melting on a hot day but if you build the string correctly, that shouldn't be a problem either.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Huntinsker said:


> I don't think there is an advantage with Natural over the other colors besides that Natural doesn't have any wax in it. Some think that will give you more speed but it shouldn't be enough to matter. I suppose it also may have less tendency to creep due to the wax melting on a hot day but if you build the string correctly, that shouldn't be a problem either.


I believe the "natural" material has no protective coating on it as well as having low/no wax. My understanding (from a couple of years ago) is that the only real advantage in using the "natural" material is that you can use more strands to get approximately the same diameter string. More strands = more stability. Of course w/o any protective coating or wax the natural material won't last as long as the colored.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

EPLC said:


> I believe the "natural" material has no protective coating on it as well as having low/no wax. My understanding (from a couple of years ago) is that the only real advantage in using the "natural" material is that you can use more strands to get approximately the same diameter string. More strands = more stability. Of course w/o any protective coating or wax the natural material won't last as long as the colored.


Makes sense. I didn't think of the strand count which would be a real benefit.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

I believe me shall move two ways.....
ordering now a set of 452's just for my own trials, also ordering parts to build my own DIY jig so I can have my own strings before bed time


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## ElMuchoHombre (Aug 17, 2013)

I've traditionally used 452 on most of my bows, but recently I've been experimenting with other materials. I used a set of 8190 for my 50m bow, I have a set of X on my hunting bow, and I have a set of Fury strings with 32 strands buss cable and string, and 30 strands on the control cable to minimize serving separation. I'm living in Houston right now, so I'm very curious to see how the Fury does with these ridiculous summers. 8190 didn't give me any stretch or creep issues in 100º+ weather, and X hasn't given me any real issues, but I don't have more than 500 shots on it so it's far too early to say. I'll reevaluate my position on X and Fury when I have a few thousand shots on them. If I have any issues with tuning stability, I'm going back to 452 cables, and possibly 8125 on the string. I like a softer shot feel. 

I'm also seriously considering switching to natural fibers after this set of Fury, if I can get away with more strands in the bundle and better tuning stability, I'll do it. I generally shoot around 1k arrows a week, and end up replacing strings a few times a year.


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

Call me old fashioned but I still use and love my brownell ultra-cam. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Ultra-cam is the only material that BCY never created an equal to as far as blend. The ultra-cam is 56% vectran. This material is the most stable I have come across and I don't understand why they discontinued it for the life of me. It may be slower than the dyneema but all I care about is consistency. I have gone from shooting in a foot of snow here in Ohio and then traveled to an ASA event in Florida only to see a 60+ degree difference in temperature and nothing has ever changed. I run 14 strand cables and a 16 strand string. Only reason I go 16 on string is for nock fit. If anyone still has some ultra-cam laying around and want to get rid of it let me know.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

> ... String builders make every set of strings the same, in regards to stretching time, stretching tension, serving tension, etc... ....


really? ALL they machines?



> ... The material choices are the same, the serving choices are the same, and the build process is the same....


so....you assume the black strand will stretch the same as the red or blue or green in that same bundle?



> ... There is no difference between a string set for a target bow and a string set for a hunting bow....


I didn't meant to... but have to say this: ....... you have no idea what you talking about !!! and.... I would never buy strings from your source...



EPLC said:


> Making strings is a fairly simple process... getting them right is another matter. IMO, most string related issues with todays modern materials are most likely process related, not material related. ...


This weekend my club was hosting a 3d second leg of Triple Crown (one of the biggest title North of border), about 100 people show up to win with their latest and greatest.... Spoke with several guys I knew for years, they using 452x for all string/cables and... planning to go back to a single color just because of inconsistency do to elements!!!


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

bigHUN said:


> really? ALL they machines?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I mean by they make all strings the same is that there is no difference when it comes to stretching time, serving tension, stretching tension etc whether that particular builder is building a set for a hunting bow or a target bow. If there is, I wouldn't want to buy strings from them for either. Each individual builder has his/her own methods of stretch tension, serving tension, stretch time, but there isn't a different process for a target bow, outdoor field bow, or leisure log tossing bow. Every good string builder knows their process inside and out, and has equipment to measure things like stretch tension, serving tension etc. That said, yes, things happen and that is why any good builder has a warranty. Machine built, or hand built, things can happen.

Your second point, is really over complicating the whole string building process. The material is the same, the only difference is the dye. Yes, that can slightly affect diameter, and weight, but ask your favorite go to string builder is his process is the same for a black string as it is for a blue string, and see what he says. I used to stretch my strings and cables at 450 lbs for 45 minutes. I don't care if it is natural or flo orange, the material is pre stretched, and won't move.

As for your third point. You sir, are the one asking what string material and builder to use on your bow (a General Archery Forum Question). I'm just telling you some things about strings. There is no difference, when it comes to building strings, as to whether it is a leisure log tosser or a field bow. You can order 28 strand strings for a hunting bow if you like, or you can order 18 strand strings for your target bow if you like. String building really isn't rocket science, and there are many great builders out there. I can give you some names if you like.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

SlickNickel said:


> What I mean by they make all strings the same is that there is no difference when it comes to stretching time, serving tension, stretching tension etc whether that particular builder is building a set for a hunting bow or a target bow. If there is, I wouldn't want to buy strings from them for either. Each individual builder has his/her own methods of stretch tension, serving tension, stretch time, but there isn't a different process for a target bow, outdoor field bow, or leisure log tossing bow. Every good string builder knows their process inside and out, and has equipment to measure things like stretch tension, serving tension etc. That said, yes, things happen and that is why any good builder has a warranty. Machine built, or hand built, things can happen.
> 
> Your second point, is really over complicating the whole string building process. The material is the same, the only difference is the dye. Yes, that can slightly affect diameter, and weight, but ask your favorite go to string builder is his process is the same for a black string as it is for a blue string, and see what he says. I used to stretch my strings and cables at 450 lbs for 45 minutes. I don't care if it is natural or flo orange, the material is pre stretched, and won't move.
> 
> As for your third point. You sir, are the one asking what string material and builder to use on your bow (a General Archery Forum Question). I'm just telling you some things about strings. There is no difference, when it comes to building strings, as to whether it is a leisure log tosser or a field bow. You can order 28 strand strings for a hunting bow if you like, or you can order 18 strand strings for your target bow if you like. String building really isn't rocket science, and there are many great builders out there. I can give you some names if you like.


I will say, in reference to the different colors, that some colors seem to be waxed more heavily than others. I'm not so sure that it is a color thing though, or just inconsistencies in wax from spool to spool. As long as you build with low wax material, it's really a non issue.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

SlickNickel said:


> ...As for your third point....


I am absolutely separating myself from information anything coming from (keyword filtering) "hunting...hunters...hunt" ... they can do or buy or build whatever they wish, but I have most likely no use for that .. product .... 
Don't understand me wrong, I was hunting for more then a decade, but nobody in my family won't eat that anymore, if I have to mix 2:3 with pork meat to make my own red spicy sausages then I don't need that deer. So I gave up with hunting and now running outdoor rings only.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

*stock vs custom lengths*

Got my mail today lets the Game begin

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2293095&p=1070705007#post1070705007


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

bigHUN said:


> I am absolutely separating myself from information anything coming from (keyword filtering) "hunting...hunters...hunt" ... they can do or buy or build whatever they wish, but I have most likely no use for that .. product ....
> Don't understand me wrong, I was hunting for more then a decade, but nobody in my family won't eat that anymore, if I have to mix 2:3 with pork meat to make my own red spicy sausages then I don't need that deer. So I gave up with hunting and now running outdoor rings only.


There is zero difference between a quality 'hunting' set of strings and cables and a 'target' set of strings and cables. Just because it's a hunting bow you don't think you can build the harnesses to fit how you want the bow to feel in all aspects? You're making it sound like you've got your target bow harnesses down to something extremely unique, when all you did was just get a standard set of of 24 strand cables and 20 strand string. Get off your high horse


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

jmann28 said:


> There is zero difference between a quality 'hunting' set of strings and cables and a 'target' set of strings and cables. ... Get off your high horse


Hunting way of thinking that is it what I am against......you could have thrown all the money for best materials in this whole world ......but
Can you make 57.7 lbs peek DW with a 23 lbs holding weight on your hunting bow? ... 
and don't hold it on the limbs but on the slope before valley...
and shoot a 395 grain arrow...
that is fine if the speed is below 250 but must hit that ten ring at 30-50-70-90, 
and repeat 30 tausand times per season with the same consistency? 

Nothing is unique here, all normal way of thinking about materials and processes just not easy to sort out who is building these things cables/strings with what material and how much cost...

I am sure this would be that your white horse what you asking for?!


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

jmann28 said:


> ...You're making it sound like you've got your target bow harnesses down to something extremely unique, when all you did was just get a standard set of of 24 strand cables and 20 strand string. Get off your high horse


If you don't think about this as a competition shooter...well, Im sorry to say but you will never learn the real difference.
:focus:


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

bigHUN said:


> Hunting way of thinking that is it what I am against......you could have thrown all the money for best materials in this whole world ......but
> Can you make 57.7 lbs peek DW with a 23 lbs holding weight on your hunting bow? ...
> and don't hold it on the limbs but on the slope before valley...
> and shoot a 395 grain arrow...
> ...


So when I build my harnesses for my hunting bow, after I've tweaked it to feel how I like, then explain to me how it's any different than when I do the same thing with my target bow? 

Because the build process is the same.
The materials are the same.
The lengths are NOT stock. 
The recommended number of strands is NOT used.

So what's the difference?


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

jmann28 said:


> So when I build my harnesses for my hunting bow, after I've tweaked it to feel how I like, then explain to me how it's any different than when I do the same thing with my target bow?
> Because the build process is the same.
> The materials are the same.
> The lengths are NOT stock.
> The recommended number of strands is NOT used.So what's the difference?


jnmann, You may be the exception to the rule. Most strictly hunters I have run across are either wanting to keep everything on the cheap and put the least expensive harness set on their bows and have at it, while the majority of others buy the most expensive set they can with little regard to how the string/cable combination can affect their arrow flight and if their BH and field points hit within a 6" spot at 30 yards, they feel they are good to go.

However, all competition shooters are concerned with each of their arrows hitting the very center of a 1-6" dot depending on the distance shot (20-80+ yards) and expect their bows to deliver that same level of consistency over the course of the thousands of arrows they will shot in a tournament season. The string build and materials characteristics in these situations becomes paramount so, individualization of their harness systems comes into play. Since the quality of string materials continues to improve, finding the combinations of string/cable materials and build formulas that will best suit their equipment and shooting style while delivering these accuracy requirements becomes an important part of the process.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Build specs and approach for hunting is different than target- higher speeds, less holding weight, better looks... That's what the majority are looking for in custom harnesses. To get those diff materials and strand counts are used along with diff tuning methods to get them working and getting the bow "tuned" as best as possible.

I'm with bighun on this one...


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

N7709K said:


> Build specs and approach for hunting is different than target- higher speeds, less holding weight, better looks... That's what the majority are looking for in custom harnesses. To get those diff materials and strand counts are used along with diff tuning methods to get them working and getting the bow "tuned" as best as possible.
> 
> I'm with bighun on this one...


I actually build my hunting bows harnesses with the same attention and thought as my target bows. I tune my hunting bow to feel how I want, which means running a longer mod and short stringing it to add holding weight, thicker cables, nock fit, speed etc. I don't care if it's my hunting bow or target bow, to me, I build ANY bow of mine to be as accurate and repeatable as possible and shoot/hold as best as I can get it.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

N7709K said:


> Build specs and approach for hunting is different than target- higher speeds, less holding weight, better looks... That's what the majority are looking for in custom harnesses. To get those diff materials and strand counts are used along with diff tuning methods to get them working and getting the bow "tuned" as best as possible.
> 
> I'm with bighun on this one...


First off, build specs don't necessarily come from the builder. Specs come from the tuner or the shooter. In most cases the builder just builds them how you want them built. Most builders, if you have them build to their spec, will build to factory length and diameters. Now, the builder may give you his/her input on how to achieve what you are looking for, but I don't know of any builder who will take it upon themselves to build a 28 or 30 strand cable set, and change factory lengths. So your first point is more tuning related, than build related. The builder can build them any diameter and length that you want.

The materials used are personal preference. You only have so many choices. By what your saying about speed, I assume that you are talking about hunters using 8125 or 8190 material. Well, didn't BlueX say earlier in this thread that he prefers 8125 for his string? And believe me, ther are A LOT of hunters who prefer 452x or BCY X over the 8190 and 8125 for stability reasons. The materials are the same, as is the build process, and all it comes down to is personal preference. You guys are bringing custom tuning into a string building thread. Two different things.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Depends on how well you know the builder and the relationship you have with them-- mine knows what I like, what I don't, and how I want my stuff to come. 

Short of it is most hunters only care about color


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

N7709K said:


> Depends on how well you know the builder and the relationship you have with them-- mine knows what I like, what I don't, and how I want my stuff to come.
> 
> Short of it is most hunters only care about color


Agreed, most just care about color. But there is a lot of us who treat them like target harnesses. It's fairly ignorant for anyone to say that because a string is on a hunting bow, it's different than a string on a target bow


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

N7709K said:


> Depends on how well you know the builder and the relationship you have with them-- mine knows what I like, what I don't, and how I want my stuff to come.
> 
> Short of it is most hunters only care about color


He knows what you like because you told him. You tune your bows and know how to make them suit you. You passed that info along to your builder, and he builds them the way you like them. The builder just builds the strings the way that you, the shooter/tuner told him to build them. Your still talking tuning not string building. The point is, the strings are built with the same process, it's the shooter/tuning input that is the only difference.


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> First off, build specs don't necessarily come from the builder. Specs come from the tuner or the shooter. In most cases the builder just builds them how you want them built. Most builders, if you have them build to their spec, will build to factory length and diameters. Now, the builder may give you his/her input on how to achieve what you are looking for, but I don't know of any builder who will take it upon themselves to build a 28 or 30 strand cable set, and change factory lengths. So your first point is more tuning related, than build related. The builder can build them any diameter and length that you want.
> 
> The materials used are personal preference. You only have so many choices. By what your saying about speed, I assume that you are talking about hunters using 8125 or 8190 material. Well, didn't BlueX say earlier in this thread that he prefers 8125 for his string? And believe me, ther are A LOT of hunters who prefer 452x or BCY X over the 8190 and 8125 for stability reasons. The materials are the same, as is the build process, and all it comes down to is personal preference. You guys are bringing custom tuning into a string building thread. Two different things.


Per this sub forum's rules, tuning is also a discussion for the General Archery Forum. :mg: :wink:


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Ummm... Actually it went more along the lines of Brian I need something for my ve+; ok what's your addy, they'll be there in a week. 

Brian knows what I like now; in the beginning he didn't- but they are still the only strings I'll shoot


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

N7709K said:


> Ummm... Actually it went more along the lines of Brian I need something for my ve+; ok what's your addy, they'll be there in a week.
> 
> Brian knows what I like now; in the beginning he didn't- but they are still the only strings I'll shoot


How come you've never gotten into making your own? Who makes yours by the way, just out of curiosity. What are you running on your pro comp xl as far as string specs go? I've tried going 28 on the cables, but the spirals rub so damn hard on that buss serving the bigger diameter makes the serving wear out too quick. Unless I'm missing something lol


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

N7709K said:


> Ummm... Actually it went more along the lines of Brian I need something for my ve+; ok what's your addy, they'll be there in a week.
> 
> Brian knows what I like now; in the beginning he didn't- but they are still the only strings I'll shoot


Lol. That's how it works for everybody, which is what a few of us are saying here. They are built the same as any other string and cable set. Now he knows what you like because you the shooter/tuner have told him. I don't see what's so hard to understand here.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

jmann28 said:


> How come you've never gotten into making your own? Who makes yours by the way, just out of curiosity. What are you running on your pro comp xl as far as string specs go? I've tried going 28 on the cables, but the spirals rub so damn hard on that buss serving the bigger diameter makes the serving wear out too quick. Unless I'm missing something lol


He said Brian, and I would assume he's talking about Brian Visco at Viscosity.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I only have one thing to say here... OMG has this thread gone to hell.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

so what did brian build up and send my way then? seein as they are all built the same...

i haven't gotten into it because i have no desire to; the amount of sets i go through doesn't warrant the investment into a setup and the space to put in a layup jig and stretcher. i've built sets, i just don't care to build my own... i also don't have the time right now or the spare cash to build up the jig and stretcher that I'd want. there is also the part about when i gets out that i build strings....

go to a large shoot and everybody and their brother builds strings; but only a handful really build good sets- i got something with brian that ain't broke, so i'm not gonna fix it. I've passed on quite a few contract offers stickin with brian; but i get a finished product that i don't have to worry about and one that a good number of builders wont even try.


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

N7709K said:


> so what did brian build up and send my way then? seein as they are all built the same...
> 
> i haven't gotten into it because i have no desire to; the amount of sets i go through doesn't warrant the investment into a setup and the space to put in a layup jig and stretcher. i've built sets, i just don't care to build my own... i also don't have the time right now or the spare cash to build up the jig and stretcher that I'd want. there is also the part about when i gets out that i build strings....
> 
> go to a large shoot and everybody and their brother builds strings; but only a handful really build good sets- i got something with brian that ain't broke, so i'm not gonna fix it. I've passed on quite a few contract offers stickin with brian; but i get a finished product that i don't have to worry about and one that a good number of builders wont even try.


Nobody is saying all strings are the same, but they are all made the same. He obviously made them the way you wanted him too. A well made sting is a well made string, regardless of what material, strand count, serving type, twist rate, finished diameter. A well made string made to the specs anyone would choose to go with, doesn't know if it's on a 'hunting' bow, or a 'target' bow.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

They ain't all made the same- no where close... Theory is the same but application is very different; watch diff guys build and you will see- know your stuff and you can tell a good set from bad before it's off the jig.

When I first ordered from Brian there wasn't any telling him how I wanted them. I needed strings for a target rig and he built to his recipe for target rigs, simple as that. Only difference between then and now is I'll pass on what color serving I want...


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## SlickNickel (Jul 14, 2014)

N7709K said:


> Ummm... Actually it went more along the lines of Brian I need something for my ve+; ok what's your addy, they'll be there in a week.
> 
> Brian knows what I like now; in the beginning he didn't- but they are still the only strings I'll shoot





N7709K said:


> They ain't all made the same- no where close... Theory is the same but application is very different; watch diff guys build and you will see- know your stuff and you can tell a good set from bad before it's off the jig.
> 
> When I first ordered from Brian there wasn't any telling him how I wanted them. I needed strings for a target rig and he built to his recipe for target rigs, simple as that. Only difference between then and now is I'll pass on what color serving I want...


Which is it? So the only thing that you didn't like in the beginning was the serving color? Now he knows what serving color to give you? You are talking about different builders having slightly different build processes, which still doesn't matter on whether it is a target rig or hunting rig. That builder will use the same process. Most all builders will build to factory specs, both lengths and finished diameters, unless told otherwise. Also, if I order string and cables for my hunting bow, and they are not made with the same care and held to the same standard as the set for my target bow, I would be one mad hombre. Just as I would be mad if I ordered strings for my target bow, and they weren't made to the same standard as for a hunting bow.

This is silly , you guys aren't going to take our word for it. I hope BigHun finds the perfect set of Target strings for his Outdoor Ring bow. 

I wonder why builders don't have separate pricing for target harnesses vs hunting harnesses. If so much more work goes into a set of target strings? Hmmm


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

SlickNickel said:


> ...If so much more work goes into a set of target strings? Hmmm


My bow is a STS, four cables plus the string. In several months heavy use I put a lot of abuse into strands and when the elements kicks in start stretching unpredictable.
If the four cables are not perfectly same tension and length (either in static or full draw) I get occasional flyers collecting 8's or 9's instead of 10's. I am sure this is one of my biggest problems right now how to prevent 1386 repeating again, instead of just having an easy life in the 1400 league.........................................................................................you don't believe it you gotta try it.
The best string/cable set for my DST40 so far I got last year from RayKnight, I know he measured the four lengths at least 3-4 times before taking out from the jig, unfortunately this season he was busy so this is a reason to my OP. 
I have no time learning making strings for myself but reading through all these posts was definitely priceless.
Next time I order, it will be a 452X in neutral color...this coming from guru's :wink:


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## Carbofastdirect (Nov 25, 2013)

Chris (ray knight) does make some awesome strings, the set on my DST 40 haven't budged at all


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

I have been using 452x on my target bow with great success .I have been pondering the thought of BCY X.From what I have read is a great string material if properly built as with all string material for that matter.Just hard to give up 452X ya get the fuzz but I can get thousnds of shoots with very little grief on a set of threads.And I shoot in weather that's 100 in summer to winter that is in the 20s.Got some BCY X on a hunting bow looks good but I have just 200 or so shots on the string I only put 500 shoots a year on my hunting bow and it might not be that many.So it would take awhile to see how the BCY X holds up.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

*This what I was looking for*

Finally could grab some time today and swap the new cables/strings on my bow.

Have a look what the custom lengths doing to cam timing.









the blue line is my earlier custom-shorter string only with stock cables, climbs up more aggressive followed with almost flat plateau,
the green line is a new custom set, what we were so much talking about here in the thread, it is a shorter string + longer cables combination, starts earlier and the climb is wider = smoother and no plateau, meaning easier smoother draw also letoff.

Drawing the peak DW of 55.6 lbs feels like a joke with a 24.2 lbs holding weight on the back slope (55.6% letoff) and no need for any hard draw stop...I believe this will work well for long range shooting :wink:


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