# Archery mythbusters



## Demmer3 (Apr 23, 2017)

Haha. Ild follow that one

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Look for the upcoming archery mythbusters episodes "Spin wings vs. the upstarts," ... "STRAIGHT to the point?" and "Is your bow LONG enough?" ha, ha.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

My, aren't we feeling perky today.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Arcus said:


> My, aren't we feeling perky today.


LOL. Not many topics catch my interest anymore.


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

I'd like to see the myth busted that the practitioners of Zen archery don't care at all if they hit the target or not. Despite the entrenched stoicism I bet there's a disappointment meter of some sort that would register that flicker of "Damn." when an arrow goes astray. I know I could peg the needle on one.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

Archery shoes?


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

What color bow shoots best?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

target1 said:


> What color bow shoots best?


Blue for sure ...:wink:
(we have here 2 Olympic medals , several World Championships medals and some World Records that withness this)


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Well, since I have never had a blue riser (on a recurve, at least), and have not set any world records or won any Olympic or World Championships, my own real-world experience would support this hypothesis.


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## fingolete (Jun 9, 2016)

Will a 70" long stab improve my shotting?


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

Does pulling the worst scoring arrows out first improve later scores?


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Yes, if you do it before the guy with the scorecard gets to the target.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

wiatrog said:


> Does pulling the worst scoring arrows out first improve later scores?


No, but it certainly does help with your positive mental attitude as you are walking away. Better to be thinking about the yellow you just shot instead of the 3.....

Sometimes that can be the difference in performance.


Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)




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## cekkmt (Nov 29, 2013)

recently, does adding more fletchings increase your score?


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## Boltsmyth (Nov 16, 2002)

Sorry Vittorio but it's personal preference... there's a trade-off; everyone knows blue shoots faster while red is more stable.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Boltsmyth said:


> Sorry Vittorio but it's personal preference... there's a trade-off; everyone knows blue shoots faster while red is more stable.


And yellow matches the bulls-eye. I vote for yellow!


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

and black is power!!


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

cekkmt said:


> recently, does adding more fletchings increase your score?


Your equipment-geek score will. Added bonus for intrigued color schemes.


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## arrowchucker222 (Jun 17, 2013)

The only reason to shoot Flemish strings is because Chicks dig-it!!!
Well worth the added pain of a string that never stops stretching.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

I am surprised that no one has keyed in on how the color of the riser and limbs have an impact on its mass. Black absorbs all light, where as white reflects them all. A black riser will be absorbing photons all day long. As the day goes on, more and more photons are absorbed. Then as the sun moves across the field, there becomes an imbalance of photon absorption on the riser and limbs, not to mention on the arrows themselves. We spend much time working on the balance of our equipment, but the photon absorption imbalance is ignored. We all know by experience that our equipment changes through the day. We are lead to believe that its heat. But is it really heat? We must not ignore the photon effect. Different colors absorb different amounts of photons. One might think that going with all white equipment because white reflects all light would be the way to go. But when the sun is on one side of the bow, its receiving more photons then on the other side of the bow, thus creating a photon imbalance which by analogy is like the wind hitting the bow on one side. We all know what that does. So one then must look at getting the right balance of colors for both reflecting and absorbing to optimize the photon absorption/reflection balance.

I am also sure that there are optimal designs of the surfaces of the equipment that can optimize the photon balance. Much like how stealth aircraft designs are all about the proper redirection of radar signals to minimize the radar return signature of the aircraft. More peer reviewed research is needed to be made public of this phenomena. Like with climate change, there are two camps of people, there are those who endorse the photon balance exchange phenomena, and then there the naysayers. 

We all need to band together and demand more government funded research in this area, because all the naysayers out there say this doesn't occur, and yet we all have to deal with it every day we are on the range, we all know by experience things change during the day as the sun goes up and when the sun goes down, and yet we don't see the same phenomena at its intense levels for indoor shooting.

How many points have we all lost because of this phenomena? We demand answers

Pete


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Vittorio said:


> Long time ago, Sony invented the Betamax propertary format for video recording, and went in competition to the VHS format from JVC, but suppored by ALL other manufacturers. Betamax was *by far a superior *recording system, but never become a standard and lost the battle to VHS.
> Being a *superior technical solution* does NOT grant the right to survive.


Well, seems the question of technical merit has indeed been addressed by someone...


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

Mr. Roboto said:


> I am surprised that no one has keyed in on how the color of the riser and limbs have an impact on its mass. Black absorbs all light, where as white reflects them all. A black riser will be absorbing photons all day long.
> Pete


You joke but it's true. I had a physicist explain to me that a black vehicle will reach the speed of light faster than a vehicle other than black so I shoot only black arrows with black fletching.


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## fingolete (Jun 9, 2016)

Mark Talley said:


> You joke but it's true. I had a physicist explain to me that a black vehicle will reach the speed of light faster than a vehicle other than black so I shoot only black arrows with black fletching.


I use red riser for hiding enemy's blood from judges eyes. Photon balance is reached attaching a lantern pointing right to the side the sun is not hitting.


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Mark Talley said:


> You joke but it's true. I had a physicist explain to me that a black vehicle will reach the speed of light faster than a vehicle other than black so I shoot only black arrows with black fletching.


Not true if you're driving a red, fitty seb'n Chevy. Red paint has smaller pigment, less drag, faster. Unh hunh.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Red is for cars driving away from you. Blue is for cars driving towards you.

Physics joke.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Stash said:


> Red is for cars driving away from you. Blue is for cars driving towards you.
> 
> Physics joke.


chit just got deep. LOL


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Yeah, I'm trying to work that Big Bang Theory joke punch line into the arrow straightness thread but it doesn't _quite_ fit. The one that goes "I have an answer for you, but it only works on spherical chickens in a vacuum".


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Don't forget the Coriolis Effect.

We all know the toilet rotates clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counter clockwise in the southern hemisphere when flushing due to the Coriolis Force.

Now lets look at arrow spin. Depending on the helix angle, the arrow spin rate will be different in the northern hemisphere than in the southern hemispheres. There are people experimenting with left hand vs right hand helix - could they be noticing that there is an affect?

The rate of spin relative to the airflow can give some lift, or can cause the arrow to drop faster. The Coriolis effect can have some serious impact on our arrow flights, especially for those who travel around the world to shoot.

I am telling ya, mythbusters completely missed the Coriolis effect


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I am telling ya, mythbusters completely missed the Coriolis effect


That's why they accept viewer submissions for myths to test! ha, ha. But that would be a good one alright.


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

I've heard rumors there are a few archers using specially designed arrow shafts which are small compressed gas cylinders. When fired off of the bow string, a valve opens inside the nock so they boost acceleration for an additional 8 or 10 yards off the bow - similar to the bicycle racer who was found to have an electric motor assist inside his frame.


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## rat4go (Apr 14, 2011)

Mr. Roboto said:


> Don't forget the Coriolis Effect.
> 
> We all know the toilet rotates clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counter clockwise in the southern hemisphere when flushing due to the Coriolis Force.
> 
> Now lets look at arrow spin. Depending on the helix angle, the arrow spin rate will be different in the northern hemisphere than in the southern hemispheres. There are people experimenting with left hand vs right hand helix - could they be noticing that there is an affect?


This is why if I ever shoot south of the equator, I'll fletch my arrows with left wing feathers instead of right. I don't want them fighting their natural rotation!


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Stash, that is the answer reserved for those who insist that their arrow selection calculator MUST be right.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Oooh, a new product idea - filling the shafts with different gasses, like using nitrogen to inflate tires.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

On a completely unrelated subject, it was discovered by at least one archer competing on international teams in the 1980s that it was at the time possible to transport joints across international borders inside 2114 aluminum arrows by removing and regluing the points. 

Don't ask me how I know...


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## fingolete (Jun 9, 2016)

Stash said:


> On a completely unrelated subject, it was discovered by at least one archer competing on international teams in the 1980s that it was at the time possible to transport joints across international borders inside 2114 aluminum arrows by removing and regluing the points.
> 
> Don't ask me how I know...


Pls specify point weight and cut lenght. I don´t want my arrows show weak in case of police bareshaft control!!!


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## Ryp (Mar 28, 2017)

This could be used by World Archery to improve attendance at some of the less well attended indoor events. Think of how much more "fun" can be packed into a .23 than an X10.

As for point weight and shaft length, smallest weight with the longest shaft of course. After you get done with the payload you won't care how the arrow behaves anymore. I suspect that scores well actually go up though.


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## nulimbender (Nov 30, 2005)

"Active" Vibration Dampening:

1)Buy vibrator (Ask ad***shopkeeper to place it in plain brown bag:embara
2)Attach vibrator to riser with duct tape
3)Tune vibrator to cancel limb vibration (phase cancellation effect)


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

trigger actuated miniaturized gyroscope inside riser to resist pitch/yaw once the target is acquired. Holographic sights for barebow which are visible only with specialized glasses. Damn, I could be the Smokey Yunick of the archery world.


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## MJAnderson68 (Nov 15, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Today on this episode of "archery mythbusters" we will test to see whether the highly touted "formula" limb attachment system is truly superior to the 40 year old ILF system...
> 
> Past archery mythbusters episodes include: "are stealth shots for real?" ... "Pilla sunglasses vs. conventional sunglasses" ... and "are B-stingers really the B-all?"


I'd like to see them finally determine the exact relationship between "$ spent on new equipment" and "scoring increase" so I can budget appropriately.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

MJAnderson68 said:


> I'd like to see them finally determine the exact relationship between "$ spent on new equipment" and "scoring increase" so I can budget appropriately.


Internal studies in our compnay have definitely confirmed that more expensive equipments are genereting better scores. So in order to continuously improve scores of our customers, we have strategically decided to increase prices every year.


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

Vittorio said:


> Internal studies in our compnay have definitely confirmed that more expensive equipments are genereting better scores. So in order to continuously improve scores of our customers, we have strategically decided to increase prices every year.


Yes, Kakas' win was no doubt an anomaly. What was he thinking?


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

Right wing fletched arrows for a crosswind coming from the right, and left wing for left? All this to reduce wind drift.....Lunger


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hello
Very in lighting to man of my age :grin: [ Later


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

MJAnderson68 said:


> I'd like to see them finally determine the exact relationship between "$ spent on new equipment" and "scoring increase" so I can budget appropriately.


This isn't a myth, but a fact. Well according to my wife's coach, who constantly preached "Better performance through excessive spending". If a coach says it, its got to be true.


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

I heard that some people were shooting with "heavy" tabs which were in fact hinged mechanical releases tripped by thumb pressure and disguised by the thicker materials.


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## VAtiger (Dec 15, 2016)

fingolete said:


> Will a 70" long stab improve my shotting?
> 
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


Not sure about the stab, but a 70" long sight extension rod might....


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Anyhow, my daughter has just asked me a new GQ-25L in Blue color as "Blue risers are winners".


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

Vittorio said:


> Anyhow, my daughter has just asked me a new GQ-25L in Blue color as "Blue risers are winners".


Encrusted with blue star sapphires like a Topkapi dagger and there's no limit to what she could do.


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## Dillinger1 (Aug 14, 2017)

Mr. Roboto said:


> Don't forget the Coriolis Effect.
> 
> We all know the toilet rotates clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counter clockwise in the southern hemisphere when flushing due to the Coriolis Force.
> 
> ...


This is why I always hold slightly low when shooting east and high when shooting west. :wink:


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Something a lot of people forget when dealing with the Coriolis Effect is their bowstrings. You need to twist the string clockwise (looking from the end) in the North and counterclockwise in the South.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

Stash said:


> Something a lot of people forget when dealing with the Coriolis Effect is their bowstrings. You need to twist the string clockwise (looking from the end) in the North and counterclockwise in the South.


Then, does that mean no twists when shooting at the equator?


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Correct. However, if you travel north/south over the equator often for archery, you can save yourself some money by having a set of arrows with the fletch twisting one way, and a string that twists the other way. They will compensate for each other.

One other thing - it is NOT necessary to have left-hand threads on your stabilizers, plunger, etc. in the southern hemisphere. Coriolis effect does not apply. It's only for things that move with respect to the earth.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

Stash said:


> Correct. However, if you travel north/south over the equator often for archery, you can save yourself some money by having a set of arrows with the fletch twisting one way, and a string that twists the other way. They will compensate for each other.


Let's see if I understand you correctly. For feathers, I would use left wing for a clockwise string twist, and right wing for a CCW string twist. Correct?


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

I've heard that, for archery, briefs are better than boxers. Anyone know why?


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## Dillinger1 (Aug 14, 2017)

Arcus said:


> I've heard that, for archery, briefs are better than boxers. Anyone know why?


Only if they have some kind of super hero on them....... Demmer


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Arcus said:


> I've heard that, for archery, briefs are better than boxers. Anyone know why?


Because boxers can bunch up in a bad place when harness is worn. Briefs lay flat.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Arcus said:


> Let's see if I understand you correctly. For feathers, I would use left wing for a clockwise string twist, and right wing for a CCW string twist. Correct?


Correct. That will compensate, and eith will work. But depending on where you do most of your shooting, you will find it's easier to twist a string (or better, have two, one twisted each way) than to carry 2 sets of arrows.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Arcus said:


> I've heard that, for archery, briefs are better than boxers. Anyone know why?


Boxers for target, but not so important anymore since wearing all white isn't common. We've all seen why:










Briefs are OK for field. I personally have settled for boxer-briefs because they work for everything (except 3D, where commando is king).


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

vito9999 said:


> Because boxers can bunch up in a bad place when harness is worn. Briefs lay flat.


I've heard that wearing a garter belt under your pants can occupy one side of your mind while you're shooting so you use the right hemisphere of your brain - "Rose goes in the front, big guy." That or breathing through your eyelids like a lava lizard.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

We forgot that the color of the arrow shaft can effect arrow velocity. Red shafts are the fastest, with very little trajectory. You don't see them much because they are reserved by the Illuminati for monster hunting.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Ok, now you people are getting silly.

We need to get back to ACTUAL practical archery investigations.

Here's one I firmly believe: You should always use 3 fletch all the same color. If you have, say, 1 white and 2 black, on sunny days the black ones will heat up more and expand, causing greater air resistance, and causing the arrow to wobble in flight.

Check out vidoes of all the top shooters. You rarely see any who have a different color index vane.


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## toxoph (Mar 24, 2005)

Stash said:


> Ok, now you people are getting silly.
> 
> We need to get back to ACTUAL practical archery investigations.
> 
> ...


I hadn't heard that but I heard from more than one person that different colored spin wings have different "flex" qualities and react different in flight, I never believed that yet all mine are the same!


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Stash said:


> Ok, now you people are getting silly.
> 
> We need to get back to ACTUAL practical archery investigations.
> 
> ...


Just another prime example of the Photon Absorption Imbalance phenomena.


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## monterey (Feb 16, 2015)

A white riser is best since it reflects more light back to the eye, narrowing the pupil. 
This allows greater depth of field so that the sight pin and target will be in focus at the same time.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Lead or tungsten points are more accurate than steel points. The iron in a steel point is attracted to the Earth's magnetic field and makes the arrow nosedive. Tungsten is paramagnetic so they trend towards a slightly lower impact point, while lead is diamagnetic so they trend towards a slightly higher impact point.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

No. See, this is why we need threads like this one.

The iron in steel points does not make the arrow nosedive, it directs it towards the earth's magnetic poles, just like a compass needle. This is why target archery ranges are usually oriented to the north (or south in the southern hemisphere).

I can see where you might want to switch to tungsten points when shooting field.


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## tkaap (Nov 30, 2009)

Stash said:


> We need to get back to ACTUAL practical archery investigations.
> 
> Here's one I firmly believe: You should always use 3 fletch all the same color. If you have, say, 1 white and 2 black, on sunny days the black ones will heat up more and expand, causing greater air resistance, and causing the arrow to wobble in flight.
> 
> Check out vidoes of all the top shooters. You rarely see any who have a different color index vane.





Mr. Roboto said:


> Just another prime example of the Photon Absorption Imbalance phenomena.


While the enthusiasm here for scientific investigation is admirable, laboratory research into retinal/amygdala interactions show that 3-fletch should actually be 1-red, 1-green, 1-blue. The spiraling hypnotic combination of the component colors drive the retinal signaling that is most effective in creating positive amygdala hijacking necessary for elite success.

-T


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

tkaap said:


> While the enthusiasm here for scientific investigation is admirable, laboratory research into retinal/amygdala interactions show that 3-fletch should actually be 1-red, 1-green, 1-blue. The spiraling hypnotic combination of the component colors drive the retinal signaling that is most effective in creating positive amygdala hijacking necessary for elite success.
> 
> -T


Yeah, or just shoot white fletch and entirely avoid the heat expansion phenomenon I described earlier.

Besides, you shouldn't be watching your own arrows in flight. That's "peaking" and leads to bad form.


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## fingolete (Jun 9, 2016)

Stop arguin about fletching!!!

A proper tuned bow will shot perfect with bareshaft arrows! (if it's red, i can´t guarantee a black shaft performance).

That's why everyone needs tunning, and buying expensive stuff (humidy is well known by affecting tune properties and a expensive rig will have suffer less from humidity, light angle and archer body temperature).

Any further questions contact Lars Andersen.

Thank you 

Cheers


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## tkaap (Nov 30, 2009)

Stash said:


> Besides, you shouldn't be watching your own arrows in flight. That's "peaking" and leads to bad form.


It's part of "visualizing your shot," and every elite coach recommends visualization practice.

-T


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## SimonRL (Mar 26, 2017)

So what was the result?


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## abrennan (Mar 23, 2014)

Stash said:


> No. See, this is why we need threads like this one.
> 
> The iron in steel points does not make the arrow nosedive, it directs it towards the earth's magnetic poles, just like a compass needle. This is why target archery ranges are usually oriented to the north (or south in the southern hemisphere).
> 
> I can see where you might want to switch to tungsten points when shooting field.


How does latitude change the strength of attraction? I'm in Canada, so being closer to the north pole should expect my arrows to fly (north) faster, right?

Cheers,
-Adrian


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

God question. I'm not sure. Why not chrony your arrows where you are now, and take a trip up to the 80th latitude and repeat?

I can't seem to comprehend the difference between the magnetic north pole and the geomagnetic north pole, but it as I understand it, the closer you get, rather than speeding up, arows with iron in their points will tend to dive towards the center of the earth.

So I'm going to qualify what I said above about j.connor's statement above. Upon further reflection, I am now of the opinion that arrows will be directed northwards more than downwards by magnetism at tropical and temperate latitudes, but more downwards than northwards at arctic latitudes.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

It's going to take a lot of episodes to test all these theories. LOL


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

abrennan said:


> How does latitude change the strength of attraction? I'm in Canada, so being closer to the north pole should expect my arrows to fly (north) faster, right?
> 
> Cheers,
> -Adrian


Well, since the force of gravity changes with altitude and latitude, a 350 grain arrow with an initial velocity of 195.6 ft/s, at 70 meters will hit the target 3.28 inches lower at a 50 degree latitude than at the equator.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Well, furthest north I've shot at was 61 degrees N Lat, closest to the equator was at 4 degrees N Lat, and furthest south was at 40 degrees S Lat. If I recall correctly, I had to make slight sight adjustments to my equipment each time. It never occurred to me to try to understand why.

I wish I had kept better notes...


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## Dillinger1 (Aug 14, 2017)

What about the 10-12% gain in performance by chewing gum while you shoot?


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Only if it's laced with steroids and beta blockers.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Mr. Roboto said:


> Don't forget the Coriolis Effect.
> 
> We all know the toilet rotates clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counter clockwise in the southern hemisphere when flushing due to the Coriolis Force.
> 
> ...



Yes indeed there is a Coriolis effect on right-wing versus left-wing fletching when shooting in the Northern or Southern Hemisphere. This is why most use right-wing fletching in North America, Middle East, Europe, and Asia (i.e. just about everyone we know).


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Well, that may be the end result for most archers using vanes, but the origin of this idea actualy pre-dates human understanding of the Coriolis Effect.

In the northern hemisphere, things seem to deflect to the right. And to counter this effect and keep flying in a straight line, birds have developed their right wings and the corresponding feathers a bit more than their left. So when archers took bird feathers to make fletching, they noticed the right wing feathers were a bit stronger and more durable.

So, you see, it _*IS*_ the Coriolis Effect that makes right wing fletch better in the northern hemisphere, but it's actually more because of tradition than of scientific knowledge that more people shoot RW than LW fletch.


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