# Best Metal Riser Recurve?



## savagelh (May 6, 2011)

have you considered a hoyt? I have a gamemaster 2 inbound


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## awylie0321 (Nov 3, 2012)

Look into Sky Archery. Appeared similar to DAS but cheaper. They have a couple of vids on the Tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G62oPH9WNWI


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll take a look, and I'll be very interested in hearing about your experience with your new Hoyt. 

I always shot Hoyt bows when I was into compounds (from 1989 thru about 1998) and had great luck with them - quality products and a great company. For me, though, it's just not archery unless I'm drawing the bow with my fingers, and when the modern archery world went to ultra-short bows, I switched to traditional.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Gillo Ghost and a set of Uukha or Border limbs.

Grant


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

I just picked up a W&W Black Wolf riser. It is a carbon riser with a lot of center shot for vane clearance. I would check out Border Hex 7.5 limbs. You can drop some pounds and shoot the same speed. I got screwed on Uukahs and am hoping to get my money back. Poor service.


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## Festivus (Oct 9, 2009)

All of these are good. Honestly not a bad one out of the bunch. Only thing you need to decide on is what type of limb attachment are you looking for and overall bow length. The Predator Velocity only takes Predator limbs, not bad as they have a good rep but you are married to it. Other option is a more traditional bolt down type of limb like the Hoyt Dorado/Gamemaster. No nonsense, bolt down bow, limbs are adequate. You can push out the ILF bushings from other higher end limbs and put the regular bushings in if you want to upgrade limbs. DAS is good as well, just have to change out the ILF bushings to proprietary DAS bushings. You still get poundage and tiller adjustments like the ILF bows. Then you have metal ILF risers which give the most versatility in terms of adjustment, limb selection, and bow length. 

My next ILF riser will most likely be a W/W RCX-17/Black Wolf. I want to try the carbon riser and I heard they are cut past center by a lot so I can easily use a plunger.


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## motarded (Nov 16, 2007)

I built a Hoyt excel with trad tech limbs, and love it. I ordered everything from lancaster, and learned how to do all the tuning between youtube, and a few forums. Took a bit of messing around to get everything shooting the way I wanted it, but it was a great learning experience.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I hunt with DAS Dalaa and DAS Elite riser, the Elite you won't find as they were only made by David Souza for a limited run. However, the DAS Dalaa I use is 21" and love it. Have hunted most of Western Washington and a lot of eastern Washington with it. The new Gillo Ghost is a very good looking riser, and if it is anywhere close to the Gillo's that I own, it will be a winner.


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## Coodster (Feb 3, 2006)

How heavy of a riser and finished bow length do you want. Some people like heavy aluminum risers and some like light aluminum risers as hunting bows. 
3 rivers has a 21" Dalaa that is ilf option. 
Morrison archery has ilf risers for 13"-25"
Bernadini mamba is 19" ilf and the cobra is 21" ilf
Hoyt gamemaster can be milled to ilf if you contact jondo on tradtalk. 
Just a few I have owned

Haven't shot the Titan or shorter sky risers.


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

I'm looking for a finished bow length of 58 to 60 inches. Since this will be a hunting bow, lighter mass weight is better, but I'm not too hung up about it.


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

If you go with the Border limbs you can use longer limbs and it will still be short. I had a 62" Covert Hunter and when strung was the same length as a 58" standard bow. The W&W carbon riser isn't as heavy as an aluminum riser either. The only down side I see so far is that aftermarket grips are not available yet. I just made my own. They are also deflexed a bunch for forgiveness.


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

Thanks Chris - sounds really interesting. I'm reading good things about the Border limbs. Where did you get yours? How long did it take?


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## Trimf (May 15, 2015)

The Titan with any high end limbs.
There's a lot of very high tech risers out there, but unless your looking at high performance competition and such,,you won't find better value for money than the Titan.
Plus it has everything those high end high $$$ bows have anyway.
The Hoyts always come with Hoyts bottom of the line limbs and after having gone that way once already I'd never advise anybody else to do the same.
Keep in mind that if you miss with the Titan you can always use it to beat your Elk to death.

John.


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

BEAT the elk to death. Hmmm.... Sounds better than beating myself to death after a miss, which I've come close to doing a few times(!), but my guess is that getting a missed elk to hold still long enough may require a bit of doing.

Any suggestions for top end ILF hunting limbs? I haven't been too impressed with the Tradtech limbs that Lancaster offers. Blacky Schwarz tested a Titan with the BF carbon Tradtech limbs a few years back, and it wasn't all that impressive. 

Thanks!


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I owned both Titans and 15" and 17" Morrisons. I prefer the Morrison because the ILF fittings on the Morrisons are fully enclosed. If you have weak springs in the limb fittings the limbs can fall out of the TradTechs if you hold th he riser upright while unstrung.


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

WP79Vet said:


> Thanks Chris - sounds really interesting. I'm reading good things about the Border limbs. Where did you get yours? How long did it take?


You can only get them from Border or used in the classifieds. Contact [email protected] or [email protected]. they usually take 10-12 weeks. The also make a great wood riser that is cut pas center 5/16" so you can use a plunger and stickon rest. It won't take a NAP flipper type rest. I would have recommended Uukha limbs but I had bad service from them and the place I got them from so they are off my list. The Borders I am going to order will be 47# and they will shoot the same arrow the same speed as the Black Widow I use to have that was 59#. They are much easier on the shoulders. Are you going to the TBW banquet next month? Do you know Tom Baldwin as he has been getting into Border bows also.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Lots of good metal risers out there, and it is going to come down to personal preference but of the ones you listed, I would pick the Titan. I've been shooting one since it's inception, and have tried many of the others. For me, it seems to be the best combination of all things that I find valuable. In addition to that, you won't find better customer service than that of Lancaster. They are simply the best in the business. 

In terms of durability, I can really only speak to the Titan. I've owned and shot others, but I have not owned them long enough, or shot them enough to speak about their durability. What I can say is that after 8+ years, tens of thousands of shots in everything from heat, rain, sleet, snow and sub freezing weather, I have yet to even have a screw come loose that I didn't loosen myself. It still looks as good today as the day I got it. 

One thing to consider is that if you are committed to shooting vanes, especially Blazers, risers that have an integrated shelf "hump", like the Dalaa, can prove problematic in terms of fletching contact. 

In terms of speed, smoothness, stability, etc., that is more a function of the limbs you choose than the riser.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

KPC


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

Lots of folks seem very upbeat about the Border limbs, so I will take a very hard look at them. 

Anybody have experience with TradTech limbs? As mentioned above, in Blacky's tests, the Carbon Extreme Bakelite Foam limbs (not sure that Lancaster sells them anymore) on the original Titan riser didn't perform all that well. 

How about the Black Max Carbon Extreme limbs that Lancaster still sells? 

What about the Win and Win limbs that come with the Black Wolf / RCX 17? 

Any other recommendations for ILF limbs for hunting bows? 

I have a 28 inch draw length, and would like to end up with a bow that's 58 to 60 inches long, starting with a 17 inch riser.

Thanks for all the advice, everybody. You've been very helpful.


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

I'm not a member of TBW, mostly because I've always had too much going on with work, personal life, etc. However, things are starting to slow down a bit since I moved to Ellensburg last March and am now semi-retired (doing rental real estate as a way to earn enough money to be self-employed), so I would like to get involved with some bowhunting and flyfishing organizations. Where will the banquet be held, and what's the date?

Thanks!


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> Gillo Ghost and a set of Uukha or Border limbs.
> 
> Grant


X's 2


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

WP79Vet said:


> Anybody have experience with TradTech limbs? As mentioned above, in Blacky's tests, the Carbon Extreme Bakelite Foam limbs (not sure that Lancaster sells them anymore) on the original Titan riser didn't perform all that well.
> 
> How about the Black Max Carbon Extreme limbs that Lancaster still sells?


I'm not sure which test that you are referring to, but from the ones I've seen on Blacky's site, the Extreme BF's were the fastest ILF limb he tested.

http://www.archeryreports.com/index.php/modern-recurve-a-longbows-ilf-system-or-adjustable-limbs/category/complete-bows.html

I've owned and shot all the TT limbs except for the Black Max Carbon Extremes. I've shot them on a number of occasions and they are a very nice limb. As far as performance goes, it is my understanding that they fall somewhere between the Black Max Carbons and the Extreme BF's.

Here are the performance numbers at 9gpp, 28, 29, 30 inch draw.

*BF Extremes*:

Draw Length/ Actual Weight/ Grain arrow/ FPS

28 / 49.8 / 450 / 194 
29 / 52.5 / 475 / 199 
30 / 54.7 / 494 / 204

*Black Max Carbon:*

28 / 50.1 / 454 / 188.5 
29 / 52.6 / 475 / 193.7 
30 / 55.3 / 498 / 199.3

*Black Max Glass/Wood:*

28 / 50.6 / 455 / 186 
29 / 53.0 / 477 / 192 
30 / 55.6 / 500 / 197 


Hope that helps.

KPC


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

Wow - thanks so much for your detailed response. It's extremely helpful.

John


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## Meleagris1 (Jan 8, 2003)

I think there are many great choices for risers. I personally like the Morrison Phoenix XD series, I shoot a 17" version. I shoot it without a grip and its just an awesome feeling handle and very light, I absolutely love it. I also like the fact that there is a second berger hole right on the shelf so that I can shoot off the shelf with a plunger. 

For limbs I also shoot Morrisons, I have Max 1's, Max 3's and currently have two sets of new Max 4's on order. Bob's limbs are great performers, fast and smooth. I would shoot Border's limbs also - I like the limbs with deep hooks. I draw 53lbs @ 27.5" so I shoot short limbs on a 17" riser = 58" bow. 

If you are looking for an off the shelf bow the Elite Origin might be worth a look - Dryad limbs, nice machined riser, great grip.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

I am surprised no one has mentioned a Warf riser. At about a third the cost of any of the risers mentioned and they shoot just as well and sometimes better. This is my old Bear BlackBear riser Warf'd (dovetails milled to accept ILF limbs). It shoots great. 



There is a warf for sale on tradtalk with 2 sets of limbs right now for $200.

Sent from my LG-D959 using Tapatalk


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## DJ Hardy (Jan 18, 2016)

Chris Hill said:


> You can only get them from Border or used in the classifieds. Contact [email protected] or [email protected]. they usually take 10-12 weeks. The also make a great wood riser that is cut pas center 5/16" so you can use a plunger and stickon rest. It won't take a NAP flipper type rest. I would have recommended Uukha limbs but I had bad service from them and the place I got them from so they are off my list. The Borders I am going to order will be 47# and they will shoot the same arrow the same speed as the Black Widow I use to have that was 59#. They are much easier on the shoulders. Are you going to the TBW banquet next month? Do you know Tom Baldwin as he has been getting into Border bows also.


The 47# out shooting a 59# Widow or a lot of others is a bold statement. My be true but I would have to see it to believe it.
Wish you still had the Widow so you could compare with the same arrows.


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

WP79Vet said:


> I'm not a member of TBW, mostly because I've always had too much going on with work, personal life, etc. However, things are starting to slow down a bit since I moved to Ellensburg last March and am now semi-retired (doing rental real estate as a way to earn enough money to be self-employed), so I would like to get involved with some bowhunting and flyfishing organizations. Where will the banquet be held, and what's the date?
> 
> Thanks!


I sent you a PM with my email.


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

DJ Hardy said:


> The 47# out shooting a 59# Widow or a lot of others is a bold statement. My be true but I would have to see it to believe it.
> Wish you still had the Widow so you could compare with the same arrows.


That is just my experience. It could be I was overbowed with the widow and not fully drawing. With the Border I was shooting a 525gr arrow at 190fps with fingers and 4 yarn puffs and about 29" draw. I never got over 185fps with the widow on my chronograph. Now I can hold for 30 seconds and still make a controlled shot.


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## twigzz88 (Jul 17, 2006)

Maybe sid or jparnee can jump on, he shoots border limbs. And they are a super recurve design, that isnt the first time ive hewrd border limbs out doing heavier limbs of an9ther brand.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

In previous years I would have recommended the Titan or perhaps Morrison but not any longer. The Titan has been backorder consistently since it's inception. So on the off chance you need a replacement under warranty expect to wait. It was also promised to have a shelf attachment but that is about 5 years over due now. So should you ever want to shoot off the shelf it'll have to be homebrew.
The Morrison is also a nice riser but definitely pricey with the supply issues of 3rd party manufacture like the Titan. At least it has a shelf hump and doesn't look so cheesy. 
Add in the cost over the Ghost plus those (in my opinion) hideous arrow cut outs and it's not really a good deal. I wasn't impressed with the balance either (which is a geometry issue shared with the Dalaa).

As for limbs:
I'm no longer a Border fan boy since they just don't meet the requirements I have (light arrows fast) but I'd be a liar if I said they didn't throw heavy arrows better than anything else out there (11.5gpp at 190fps). In the spear chucking department Border has been consistently 4-5 years ahead of the competition. Uukha is a more durable limb (my opinion) but their best is about circa 2010 Border for performance.
I would personally avoid any Samick built ILF limb (TT) since that part of their operation is shutting down permanently so what you've got is old stock with no hope of replacement.

Grant


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

That's all very interesting information. I was wondering why the TradTech Carbon Extreme Bakelite Foam limb is no longer available. Does Bob Morrison make his own ILF limbs? I know that the traditional Morrison takedown recurves are some of the hottest that Blacky every tested, so I'm guessing that if Bob makes his own ILF limbs, they are pretty good too.

John


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## Meleagris1 (Jan 8, 2003)

WP79Vet said:


> That's all very interesting information. I was wondering why the TradTech Carbon Extreme Bakelite Foam limb is no longer available. Does Bob Morrison make his own ILF limbs? I know that the traditional Morrison takedown recurves are some of the hottest that Blacky every tested, so I'm guessing that if Bob makes his own ILF limbs, they are pretty good too.
> 
> John


For years Bob made his own limbs - then for a short time he had Border (Max 2) and Sky (Max 3) make limbs to his specifications. I have his Max 1 and Max 3 limbs and they are both great limbs as far as performance goes, but IMO the build was better on his Max 1 limbs and he wasn't fully satisfied with Border or Sky. He is now making limbs in house again with the Max 4. They haven't started shipping yet but I have two sets on order so will post info when I do. Performance on all of his limbs has been outstanding and extremely smooth.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Bob has been outsourcing his limbs for the last several years. At one point they were a Border product but that is no longer the case. I'm unsure who the current supplier is.

A limb to look at is the Kaya Kstorm. One of the faster conventional limbs available at the moment and not a bank breaker.

Grant


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## PaulDeadringer2 (Jan 2, 2014)

For limbs....look at the carbon ILF limbs made by Bigfoot Bows, they are about as high performance as it gets. I love mine and the ILF riser made by Kirk is well thought out too.


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

Interesting development regarding Morrison limbs. About 10 years ago I shot and chronographed one of Bob's takedown recurves, and was very impressed. His workmanship was second to none, and the bow was fast. Not quite as fast as my Predator custom classic, but very close. But the Morrison bow was just as fast as a Sovereign Ballistic that I chronographed at the same time. 

After reading the posts above, I went to the Morrison website. I like the look of his metal risers, and he is now offering them in your choice of colors - for no extra charge. At $400, they are reasonably priced, they are very light in mass weight, and Bob offers a wide range of riser lengths. His new Max 4 limbs will be available this spring. 

I will also take a look at the Bigfoot Bows and the Kaya Kstorm limbs. 

Thanks again for your insights.

John


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

PaulDeadringer2 said:


> For limbs....look at the carbon ILF limbs made by Bigfoot Bows, they are about as high performance as it gets. I love mine and the ILF riser made by Kirk is well thought out too.


Need data. Big Foot is not a player in the ILF limb market. They offer one size and only a single carbon layer. Per their website they are just a limb butt mod of their bolt down limbs rather than a ground up ILF design. It is hard to believe that they are "as high performance as they get" compared to big producers and companies that do a lot of R&D like Border. There is no volume to support the R&D.


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## PaulDeadringer2 (Jan 2, 2014)

I should clarify.....when I say high-performance, I'm not speaking of speed only. I'm referring to quietness, stability, and of course speed.....basically the whole package. I'm not really into the technical stuff and I don't want to be....but I know a winner when I shoot one. Rick Barbee did some testing a while back with chrony numbers, he posted it on a few other sites. His testing is probably not up to some's standards, but he has been in archery a long time and knows his stuff. I really am trying to be helpful with my suggestion.


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## WP79Vet (Jan 21, 2016)

Thanks for your helpful suggestion, Paul. I am into the technical stuff, but I also know that quietness, stability, and aesthetics are really important too, I deeply appreciate these things, and based on their website, bigfoot bows ARE really nice. I am not put off by the fact that they are a small company, and here's why:

The fastest, smoothest, quietest, most beautiful hunting recurves that I've ever seen and tested were the Sovereign Archery Ballistiks, made by a guy named John Fazio (if I'm remembering his name right). I have shot and chronographed several of them, and all the ones that I shot were works of art that performed at least as well as anything else that I've ever shot. When you shot one, it almost felt like they were somehow alive. Unfortunately, though, it was very difficult to get a Ballistik. A good friend of mine named Jack, who owned and operated a great archery shop in Albuquerque, knew Fazio pretty well, had several of his bows, and tried to help with the business end of Fazio's operation on at least one occasion. According to Jack, Fazio lived in a shack with a dirt floor out on the west side of New Mexico, which is almost completely roadless and unpopulated, had a big backlog of orders for his bows, and would just make a couple of bows whenever he needed some cash. But apparently Fazio had an intuitive understanding of bows and archery that nobody else could match, coupled with superb and tenacious craftsmanship, and you can't replace those attributes with any amount of research and engineering. So... if you could get hold of a Ballistik in good condition, you had a real treasure on your hands. If I remember correctly, on one occasion it was almost two years between the time that Jack ordered a Ballistik and the time that he received it.

Thanks again,

John


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

WP79Vet said:


> That's all very interesting information.
> 
> John


Interesting, but I'm not sure it's all accurate. 

If I were you, if you have questions about a particular brand, I would ask the source directly. If you have questions about TradTech, contact John Wert directly. He will be more than willing to answer any of your questions. Same is true for any other brand. If they are not willing, or not available for answering questions, that is one I would remove from my list of possibles.

KPC


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## Hunter Dave (Jul 17, 2007)

A "best" metal riser debate is kinda like a Ford vs. Chevy debate, no? There are lots of great options these days.


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