# Need tuning help....



## zeus1gdsm (Mar 14, 2015)

Alright first off let me start with a thank you.

I have been "tuneing" this bow for a month now. And keep chasing my tail.... I have been soliciting help from my hunting forum. But I think I may need to get more specific so here I am..

I am shooting a 2007 Matthews switchback 50lb bow.

I have a 30inch draw length. Right handed shooter. Right eye dominant..
Shooting a whisker biscuit. I brought it to the shop I bought my first arrows from and they installed the rest and sight and "tuned" it.

I started off shooting pse stl hunter 200s spine of about. 0.440. Cut just under 30.5 inches. With 100g heads.

I had a lot of fishtail g and consistently hitting to the right of my fieldpoints by my broadheads. (muzzy 3 blade 100g).

I went to the paper and had an extremely hard time achieving a bullet hole. My tears were both left and right.

So I went up a spine to carbon express whitetail 320s. Which are about .0.35 spine.. 

With the 100grain heads I noticed less fishtailing. and my tears were nor consistent. I was able to get closer to a correct tear.

On a whim that I may have over spined now. I threw on 125g heads so the arrows fell correct based on the spine charts.

I noticed an immediate difference in arrow flight.as they rocketed out of the bow.

Still couldn't get my BHs and fps to group.

So back to the paper. I also bought a vertical adjustable rest as well as a smaller diameter pin sight.

I got 3 consistent almost bullet holes. At least the closest I've ever come.

I did walk back tuning. It went a little left so I corrected and then shot a straight vertical line.

So I throw on my broadheads again. 125gs this time. And again I'm still hitting off... About 3 inches high and 2 inches right..

I'm ready to throw myself out the window at this point.

I tried a slight rest adjustment for the horizontal however it isn't working. It is just moving their group further left..

I threw my bow on my scale and it turns out its only pulling at 47.5lbs instead of 50 and it's fully cranked down. I know I can add twists to get up to 50. However my concern is that maybe at some point the cables were messed with and now I have sever cam lean? 
I feel like visually my top cam is canted.

Any insight is appreciated on the entire saga.


Thanks again.

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## zeus1gdsm (Mar 14, 2015)

I went and shot a few more papers. Showing tail left tears by at least a 1/2 inch. Everyhting I have says move the rest towards the riser... But the rest is maxed out in that direction

Could this infact be a cam lean issue due to incorrectly balanced string twists?

Comparing my top cam to my bottom cam. It definitely looks like the bottom is leaning left.

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## zeus1gdsm (Mar 14, 2015)

Far right is first. Adjusted rest.

Top is 2nd. Adjusted rest for vertical.

Left and middle are static. I believe I should be moving the rest towards the riser or right. However it's maxed out.

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## zeus1gdsm (Mar 14, 2015)

I was having the wife take pictures of my form while I was shooting the paper. I noticed it looked like me bow arm was dropped.

So I adjusted my form on my top half.










And got this









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## zeus1gdsm (Mar 14, 2015)

So I then went back to my normal form and the arrow hit low on the paper with the other posted shots. And had a long left tear like the others

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## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

First, this might not get much traction here. Should be in Bow tuning. 

That bow has yokes correct? If so you would be better off putting the rest at center shot and tuning the yokes to correct the tear. Just adding and removing twists. Probably better to search the board, plenty of info. 

Also, you are in too deep on your grip. That may be causing some of your problems. You have a lot of bend in your elbow. Could be form, could be wrong DL. Shoulders are not really even either, bow shoulder is low and looks compressed and release shoulder is high. You want even.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

A couple of principles of paper tuning:
1 - use only one, single arrow. Find the straightest by spin test and only use that one. There is enough difference in arrows that you can get the type of results you are experiencing. And the tail chasing too.
2 - shoot paper from 3 different distances. About 1 yard, 3 yards & 10 yards. You don't have to be precise on these, just 3 distances. Like a stopped watch that's right twice a day, the arrow is perfectly straight at some brief point in it's flight. If the paper happens to be at that point, you will falsely think you are good.

Biscuits can be difficult to tune. If the bristles are not the same from shot to shot, you will get different results. Sometimes tuning with a bare shaft will help this, but often not. A biscuit is a great rest, but sometimes it's difficult to tune. When it is pretty close, many just sight it in for whatever point they are shooting. A PIA, but effective enough.

Also, with your bow hand, you are going to have problems tuning with any rest. There are dozens of threads and posts about the right way to place your bow hand on your bow. The way you have it in the photo, you are torquing the bow a little. Try curling your bird, ring and little finger lightly into your palm with the index finger lightly resting the riser. Then rotate your hand a little so that your knuckles are at about 45 degrees. GRIV (George Ryals) has a great video on bow hand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1p7mGdFNBE&index=5&list=PLuQaON7ehdecO82aFUzBYfHWH9lTWhDW0

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## cbayou (Jun 23, 2005)

It appears from the picture that your wife took that your draw length is too short, causing you to bend your bow arm. 

It also appears as if you are ready to sweep the trigger. If you sweep or punch your index release, it will also cause tears like you are seeing in your paper tuning. Hooking the index finger in the first joint of your finger and just lightly putting pressure (kind of like a hug) and using the drawing arm and shoulder to pull on through (essentially using back tension - kind of like trying to hit your drawing elbow against a wall) will give you much more consistency.

It also appears that you are trying to replicate the open grip that a lot of shooters use with precision balanced equipment. You won't be able to keep your grip hand fingers open unless you have truly balanced your bow both forward and offset (we use a pro-balancer stabilization tool in our shop to add and take away weights and lengths of stabilizers - you might consider purchasing one or if you live near us (we are in Independence, MO), you are welcome to bring the bow in and we can stabilize it for you). Until you can get the additional balance that you need to keep your fingers open, you can use your fingers to help stabilize. Just as the video from George Ryals explains, you definitely need to keep from torquing the bow (skin torquing or otherwise), so just use the webbing of your hand to find the same spot each time, then use the fat pad of your thumb to rest into the bow (as George explains, "break your wrist" or set your hand into the grip), and then hook your thumb. From there, just as the gentleman commented before me, your hand should be in a 45 degree angle. Then use your index and middle finger only in the front of the bow. Don't let your fingers come around the grip. Push pressure into the first joint of those two fingers, as if you are pressing them backwards (not the tips of the fingers, but as if you were squishing a gnat). These two fingers will be the only ones touching the front of the bow. The ring and pinkie will be off to the side. I tell my students it is like holding a (very heavy) tea cup, or like holding your hand to hitchhike (but don't ever hitchhike). I can make and send you a video if you need more guidance.

To find truly good compound form, you definitely want to start with the correct draw length (have your wife take a tape measure and measure your wingspan across your back and shoulders, but be sure not to slouch or push back, as that will give an inaccurate reading - safest way is to have a tape measure on the wall and measure from tip to tip - then take that total divided by 2.5, and then you should be pretty close - say it was a 6ft5in wing span, that would equal 30.8", but there is no such thing, so would round up to a 31" draw length).

Once you have your correct draw length, it will be a matter of ensuring the rest of your form will now cooperate. To help with that, with our students we take a piece of theraband tubing (you can buy some from most any physical therapy shop for a few dollars or on Amazon - most any color works, we typically start people with yellow, but you could probably handle green or blue - you only need about 2 feet (then just knot the two loose ends together to make a loop - just be sure it won't unravel to come apart and hit you)) and add a piece of D loop material or small piece of rope to make it possible to hook your release easier than attaching it around the theraband tubing. Then, I would have you stand fairly close to the wall, with your feet equal hip or shoulder width apart (no further because you want to be able to easily recreate the feet - if they are closer or further, you change your balance). Since you are right handed, I would have you start with your Left shoulder blade (not shoulder, just the blade) and left hip against the wall, having something to aim at that is at least 3 feet away from the wall at the other end of the room (don't let your arm go to the wall, just the shoulder blade). Then, bring your bow arm up with the band looking like it is cutting off your thumb (refer to the same area that George Ryals points at toward the end of the video commented on above). When you draw back, make sure your drawing arm elbow is up near your nose, to ensure you are using your back muscles and drawing in an angular motion, not a linear motion, to help you get the most movement possible without hurting your shoulder (pretending like you have paint on your elbow and you are drawing a half moon or rainbow to pull the bow back - or imagine the bar that holds the locomotive wheels rotation). Once you make it to anchor, then transfer the weight of the draw into your right shoulder blade (we call this step "transfer") by shrugging it back to come against the wall as well (essentially creating another small half moon shape with your drawing elbow back toward the wall). Now, both shoulder blades and both hips should easily be against the wall and help you feel what truly good compound form should be. The shape you are creating will appear similar to a triangle if you are doing it correctly (called the archers triangle). Repeat this drawing (shot) sequence multiple times a day to get the muscles to understand good form and then when you are actually shooting your bow it will become something you naturally feel. If you are truly coming to your draw length, it should feel like the gears in a clock, that you are able to seat into the same spot every time. Once your form is definitely awesome, then you can concentrate on paper tuning, aiming, and having perfect practice. If this is hard to replicate or doesn't make sense, I can make a video to send you to help you with this too.

Hope this helps in improving your challenges and makes your frustration less! We used to teach just kids when we started our program back in 2003, but have found more and more over the last several years, especially since we opened our indoor archery range and pro shop that there are a lot of people of all ages that need help with all kinds of different things in archery, so whether you are wanting to hunt or bowfish, shoot in your backyard, compete in field archery, 3D archery, indoor 3-spot or 5-spot tournaments, or go on to the World Cup or the Olympic level, we are here to help!


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