# What is the origin of Pure back tension (PBT)?



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I posted this in another thread but thought it may spark some intelligent discussion about the origins of PBT. Not really looking for a debate on it's value only where it originated. I have my thoughts that are strictly speculative but would like to hear from others. 

I asked for some concrete evidence several times as to where the PBT process originated. So far, no takers. We know that in 1974 Bob Jacobsen wasn't using it and we know today's top shooters aren't using it. So I have to assume it began somewhere in-between those two points. The earliest reference that I know of is Bernie's book followed by Larry's "Core Archery" a couple of years later (2004). I also know that around this same time there were several professional shooters on this forum that took extreme exception to Bernie's teachings. It was also around this time that GRIV posted several "dynamic tension" articles in which he uses a form of hand manipulation to execute. We know that just recently Levi Morgan said none of the really top shooters were actually using it... etc., etc.

So where did PBT come actually from? I can only speculate so lets play a little what-if. What if when the hinge came out a few professionals recognized the edge this newfangled release would give them. In order to hold back the competition they may have said, "It takes an extreme effort to learn this release as you can only activate it with PBT!", or "I don't use any hand movement to operate this new devise, I only use the proper back muscles to operate it as moving the hand would be cheating the release", and then maybe, "Not working for you, well you must be doing it wrong, just keep practicing until you get it right, perhaps a few more months of blind bale will help". A few actually may have either mastered this PBT thing against all odds or just believed that they did and started to promoted it to still others... These others never did master the process but continued drinking the idea and they in turn started to promote the process because they knew it had to be valid because the original group of professional shooters were doing so well with it... In 2002 a legion of disciples was created by still others promoting this PBT process without any more credentials then a good gift of gab and a platform that could reach 1000's with one post. 

Seem farfetched?


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

EPLC, As you know, I have access to a pretty valuable library of information from the time period that the hinge was invented. I have spent weeks reading, scanning, and researching. Not to mention that I was there and actively shooting during that time period. Although I cannot yet definitively answer your questions here are some observations;

1. The hinge did not hit the tournament scene by storm as one might expect based on today's popularity.
2. There isn't a great deal of info out there about the hinge pre Y2K. It's almost like it only had a cult following. 
3. The only real "print" talk about firing the early hinge mirrors the talk of the most successful shooters today. (Maintain tension and relax through the shot.)

These three things one could call factual. Next, and last, an opinion,

Based on my findings the hinge was not developed to cure any perceived shooting problems, (namely firing anxiety.) Think about it, compounds and releases had only been popular for a few years when the hinge was developed. *It was never (in it's early days) marketed as an aid to "cure" anything based on my findings.* It's my opinion that it was developed ONLY as a (safer, smoother) step up from the rope/spike which was the most dominant competitive release of that era. Furthermore, early on the hinge didn't enjoy a lot of popularity. Most all of the top shooters went from a rope/spike to a thumb button or ring finger pull with a few shooting an index finger. 

This doesn't totally answer your question, the research is a work in progress. Thanks for starting this topic. Hopefully it doesn't get trashed up by mis-information and prejudice. I'll use it to post relevant pics, ads and quotes as I stumble across them in the search.

:cheers:


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

In the late 1970's when I was about 9 years old I can remember going to some local 3d shoots with my dad and then one weekend I went to Springfield Mo to a archery convention. I can remember that they had a few films of Fred Bear going on in a area with some chairs to sit at and watch him on some of his hunts and talking about his love of archery and I can remember tables set up with archery stuff laid out by local people. Black Widow bows was there and a few compound bow companies but I can't remember which ones.

I wonder if anyone there had a hinge and I actually saw one and didn't even realize it. Here we are decades later and last year my little girl who was 10 years old stepped up and shot a 12 ring at a 3d shoot with a hinge and won a bag target.


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## rn3 (Jan 4, 2008)

Lazarus said:


> EPLC, As you know, I have access to a pretty valuable library of information from the time period that the hinge was invented. I have spent weeks reading, scanning, and researching. Not to mention that I was there and actively shooting during that time period. Although I cannot yet definitively answer your questions here are some observations;
> 
> 1. The hinge did not hit the tournament scene by storm as one might expect based on today's popularity.
> 2. There isn't a great deal of info out there about the hinge pre Y2K. It's almost like it only had a cult following.
> ...


That is exactly right. I went from a sizemore rope spike to a stanislowski 2 finger hinge back to the sizemore then to a failsafe. The hinge was nothing more than the progression of the release to make them more user friendly. The double sear probably revolutionized the release aid more than anything else, the hinge was just a stepping stone to get there.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

remember those old red "hotshots"?. pick one up now and you say, holy cripes, this this terrible !.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Rick! said:


> Yes, the stuff fables are made of. There is no conspiracy theory to be "blown away."
> 
> Alternate version:
> 
> ...


Rick! posted this in response to my original post in the other thread and I found it interesting as I heard (second hand) something very similar was said just recently by a pro that frequents here.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

double sears (not "double-set", for those who might think that's what I mean) existed on guns, all the way back to the later flint lock/early percussion era,.....nothing at all new about them. it is only in the interest of developing a release that doesn't transfer the load of a bow's holding weight to the trigger, that they found their way into an archery release.
if have a look at the insides of any Carter release, you will find an example of a typical "double sear trigger". how light can you set the trigger on any one of the Carter releases ?.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

there are examples of "ledges" dating back, as far as the medieval era, that were used with the long bows of that time. I've always wondered about back tension's origin also, think, by evidence of the ledges, that it was known about as early as then. the great draw weight those bows possessed would surly be applicant to back tension's use of the larger back muscle group, called "rhomboids".


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## PSE Archer (Oct 26, 2014)

I feel PBT was invented here in this forum. 

Never heard of it before. Heard of back tension. That's about it. PBT. All new.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

yea, I get what you mean.....
"pure BT" is just someone's name for back tension that has a rotational element in it, from rhomboid contraction with the absence of any finger or wrist manipulation.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ron w said:


> there are examples of "ledges" dating back, as far as the medieval era, that were used with the long bows of that time. I've always wondered about back tension's origin also, think, by evidence of the ledges, that it was known about as early as then. the great draw weight those bows possessed would surly be applicant to back tension's use of the larger back muscle group, called "rhomboids".


The back has always been a necessary part of the system to draw and hold a bow, especially those old 100# longbows.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ron w said:


> yea, I get what you mean.....
> "pure BT" is just someone's name for back tension that has a rotational element in it, from rhomboid contraction with the absence of any finger or wrist manipulation.


Well, there we have it... I guess it originated here in one of these threads LOL...

LS


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Yeah, I think I invented it... At least the acronym that is LOL! As writing out pure back tension, or true back tension, or any variation of referring to rotational back tension as a firing engine was getting monotonous.
I figured PBT beat RBTAAFE easily.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Larry Wise is the one I've heard it from and this was at least mid to early 90's.didn't he have a book before Core archery?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

stoz said:


> Larry Wise is the one I've heard it from and this was at least mid to early 90's.didn't he have a book before Core archery?


He did, possibly a couple. I don't have them though. The quote I posted earlier was from an article that mentioned Core Archery coming out soon.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

unclejane said:


> Well, there we have it... I guess it originated here in one of these threads LOL...
> 
> LS


 whether someone on this forum gave it that name or not, I have no idea... I said that as general knowledge, because here is the only place I have ever heard it referred to as, "pure BT".


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## rn3 (Jan 4, 2008)

ron w said:


> remember those old red "hotshots"?. pick one up now and you say, holy cripes, this this terrible !.


They were terrible back then, you could feel the trigger move an inch.Might not of been that far but it sure felt like it.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that's true !. I think everyone that used them, took them apart and honed the end of the trigger bar and sear surface, to smooth up the pull. once you did that, they weren't half bad, but still horrible compared to today's triggers.
at the time, unless you sprung for a "Failsafe", the hot shots, were about all there was as far as a t-handle release. if I recall, "golden key" came out with their versions, next....they were a good alternative..


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

ron w said:


> whether someone on this forum gave it that name or not, I have no idea... I said that as general knowledge, because here is the only place I have ever heard it referred to as, "pure BT".


From an old Mathews forum post back in June 2008 (I do not know the poster as this was in their archives):

"If you are more serious about your chances of winning a few tournaments, then you need a different setup. You will be much more accurate with a ‘surprise’ release. This is generally more easily attained with a hinge-style, or a thumb-style release.

Back-tension (BT) is not how you trigger the release. BT is a way to hold your bow more steadily and more consistently. And with the hinge-style releases allow you to ‘let the shot happen’. That’s not always the best way to hunt. Thumb-trigger releases can be shot in a similar fashion and can also be “squeezed” to release the arrow. Squeezing off the shot eliminates the surprise, but gives you added margin when hunting.

The pure back-tension releases are training aids in learning how to shoot using BT. (they don’t teach you BT all by themselves)"

Website: http://mathewsinc.com/forums-home/topic/relaese-wrist-thumb-back-pressure/

Interesting, no voodoo....


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I never heard of PBT until this forum started. Back tension, yes. Some coined true back tension to emphasize back tension. Not a damned thing to lose sleep over.......


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

as I've said before, "pure back tension", is a name applied to the process, in reference to using no hand, wrist, or finger manipulation, as an element of the execution. it's meant to separate that specific form of methodology, from the various methodologies that are all lumped into the category we call, "back tension". 
of course, if you consider it a "myth" , then there would be no reason to assign it a specific name. with that said, there must be evidence that it does exist, otherwise it would not have been given a name that attempts to separate it from the rest.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ron w said:


> whether someone on this forum gave it that name or not, I have no idea... I said that as general knowledge, because here is the only place I have ever heard it referred to as, "pure BT".


I actually had never heard of the entire concept of back tension until I started shooting oly recurve - the coach at TAMU at the time introduced me to it, since it's a critical technique for oly recurve shooting. 

I had some vague notion of the rotation that happens when pulling through the shot but didn't know that that side-effect of back tension was enough to fire a hinge until, well, about a week ago when I tried it lol... 

Maybe the Wise method is a better term for it, since Larry Wise seems to be one of the clearer descriptions of it?

LS


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I hate to admit it but I think I was the one who first used the phrase "Pure Back Tension", the reason that I did that is because I felt like the phrase back tension was being thrown around way to much in a general fashion. Hinges on websites were sold as back tension releases and when many people asked how to shoot one guys would throw out the back tension comment as the method.

Phrases that I personally use:

1. Firing engine: What a person uses to create the rotation in a hinge to fire it or pull the trigger on a release.

2. Back Tension: when you come to full draw and are holding against the back wall you can squeeze your back muscles as a group and increase the tension against the wall.

3. Pure Back Tension: I use this phrase to refer to a firing engine that uses only back muscles to rotate the rear arm in a arc motion in combination with a static hand that is not frozen but there is no specific finger movements given to it or stretching of the fingers.

4. Yielding: This is a wonder method of firing a hinge or thumb trigger where you allow your fingers to be stretched, Yielding creates rotation in a hinge because your ring and middle finger are stretch at a slower rate than the index finger so the index finger ends up very slightly in front of the other two fingers and this is the rotation that was needed for the hinge to fire.

5. Pulling straight into the wall: To me this is a very interesting phrase because there is nothing behind your rear elbow to do the pulling straight back behind it. Your elbow is connected to your shoulder which is in front of the elbow. I personally believe that it is just back tension but by mentally switching from thinking of it as your elbow traveling in a arc pulling your system off line by thinking about your forarm and grip on the release pulling straight back behind the arrow your body does a better job of not pulling your sight pin off the target. So you get the positive effect of using back tension with your shot without it hurting your shot as it pulls your pin off the target.

6. J-hook: Learning to flatten out your hand and then make a hook with your fingers around the release is something that every new hand held release shooter must learn instead of just grabbing it.

Those are just a few of the things that I personally use on a regular basis when talking in threads and in pm's to people and I have to be careful that they don't already have a concept of the phrase that is different than the one I am trying to get across to them because then everything I am trying to convey to them is wasted. I fail at this many times but I am getting better at it.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

well, you might be the person that uses those terms here on this forum. but many of them have ben in use amongst back tension users for many years. 
"j hook" was exactly the term used by the guy that taught me rotational back tension, some 40 years ago. 
"yielding", was term used in the instructions that came with the Thomas Trainer" release from roughly that same 40 years ago. it's reference to using the release, cautioned that "yielding your fingers' tension", was not the way the release was supposed to be used.
I think some of these terms are more generic in application, simply because they best describe a condition that can be generally understood, of the processes they refer to.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Yep, even my favorite article the "Hinge Setup Routine" isn't a original thought. I wrote my hinge setup routine for the first time because to me it didn't exist, I had suffered not knowing how to set up a hinge or that it was even needed. I then learned how to do it by figuring it out on my own and testing it and finding that it was awesome and then after a few weeks I began sharing it with people here on archery talk. After typing it over and over probably 50 times I decided to send it to myself as a pm and then I could just forward it to people, this was my first official article that I produced and have given it out thousands of times.

Now here is what totally pizzes me off and what I have came to accept my role here on archery talk, after giving it out hundreds of times and feeling great about the way it was written and the effect it was having on people a guy posted on a thread a comment that has changed me forever. He said your hinge setup routine isn't something new look at this, and he pasted a comment from a thread from the early 2000's where some guy had explained the process right here on archery talk. The fact that I had studied hinge shooting and back tension for at least 4 years at that time and been on here for hundreds of hours talking to people and trying to learn what it took to be a hinge shooter to only learn that there were people with the information but it just wasn't available to me or anyone else.

That is what started the passion that I have to get stuff written down as I learned it and present it to as many people that I can so that they can find it without having to suffer and invent the wheel over and over like I had to. As I have grown as a shooter I have tweek my thoughts and articles to the point where when I read them they express exactly what I want them to express in a way that a new shooter can relate and hopefully put to good use or at least be introduced to the things from setup and form and mental approach and execution and training.

I refuse to be a guy that enjoys winning and competing at a high level and be scared to share what I have learned, I love being beaten by my friends when I am shooting at my best and they shoot even better. I love showing up to national shoots and having a variety of guys hear my name and come up and shake my hand and say thank you for getting them started. I love seeing archery talk become a place where you ask a question as a new member and within minutes you are given free information that has been proven to get other people up and running.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Padgett said:


> Yep, even my favorite article the "Hinge Setup Routine" isn't a original thought. I wrote my hinge setup routine for the first time because to me it didn't exist, I had suffered not knowing how to set up a hinge or that it was even needed. I then learned how to do it by figuring it out on my own and testing it and finding that it was awesome and then after a few weeks I began sharing it with people here on archery talk. After typing it over and over probably 50 times I decided to send it to myself as a pm and then I could just forward it to people, this was my first official article that I produced and have given it out thousands of times.
> 
> Now here is what totally pizzes me off and what I have came to accept my role here on archery talk, after giving it out hundreds of times and feeling great about the way it was written and the effect it was having on people a guy posted on a thread a comment that has changed me forever. He said your hinge setup routine isn't something new look at this, and he pasted a comment from a thread from the early 2000's where some guy had explained the process right here on archery talk. The fact that I had studied hinge shooting and back tension for at least 4 years at that time and been on here for hundreds of hours talking to people and trying to learn what it took to be a hinge shooter to only learn that there were people with the information but it just wasn't available to me or anyone else.
> 
> ...


I think that was me. I wasn't sitting on the article either. I found it right before I posted it. Main point was AT search feature sucks. I found that old thread using yahoo search engine.

I'm glad it pissed you off lol. I think a lot of good has been happening here lately

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2226327&page=4&p=1069921799#post1069921799

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1190179


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

erdman41 said:


> I think a lot of good has been happening here lately


I agree completely. It hasn't come without some casualties though. Least we haven't had to step over any dead bodies yet. Yet. 

Mail is running about 10:1 in favor of it being a positive thing. 

And back to topic. I started this topic off with a 100% dead serious response to the author. But after thinking about the original question for over 24 hours, I'm pretty sure I was wrong. I'm pretty sure *"PURE BACK TENSION* is a term that was invented right here on this forum. And I'm pretty sure it was invented by someone who wanted to somehow edify the myth of "back tension" *firing.* I am convinced they thought by adding a word in front of "back tension" that would make an aspect of the shot *completely unrelated* to the aspect of *firing* somehow belong. 

So, if you said it was invented here on this forum, I agree with you. 

The quest from here forward should be to find out who it was that first mixed "back tension" with the *act* of firing a release.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

you'll have to search for that one pretty hard, hinges have been incorrectly been called "back tension releases" for quite some time, and long before this site was introduced,.... not only here,..... but anywhere else, as well. i'm not condoning the use of that terminology,..... i'm just stating a fact.
Lazerus, what do think we should call the process of rhomboidal contraction, with no finger or wrist manipulation, to produce rotation of the hinge ?.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

We are definitely on a bunny trail... What I meant was process related, not where the name came from. "Pure" BT, with no hand assist has been around for some time. Since Bob Jacobsen didn't use it, who did and when did it start being promoted as "the only" way?


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I would suspect that it was a technique some people used and taught long before writing any books about it, and is likely to be older than the hinge itself. 
Obviously, older than the internet. I guess the closest you will come is finding the only book on it, and seeing if the author explains where THEY learned it...providing they didn't claim to have invented it.
Al Henderson's book (80's?) talks about back tension somewhat, not sure if he advocated using it as a firing engine.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Mahly said:


> Al Henderson's book (80's?) talks about back tension somewhat, not sure if he advocated using it as a firing engine.


1983. Understanding Winning Archery. I've been through that book several times. Once just a couple of weeks ago. If my memory serves me there isn't a word in there about Compound/Release shooting. I would want to re-read it again before I made that as a statement of fact. It is an outstanding book from one of the best archery minds the world has ever seen. I don't recall him talking a great deal about back tension but I'm sure it's mentioned.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Lazarus said:


> 1983. Understanding Winning Archery. I've been through that book several times. Once just a couple of weeks ago. If my memory serves me there isn't a word in there about Compound/Release shooting. I would want to re-read it again before I made that as a statement of fact. It is an outstanding book from one of the best archery minds the world has ever seen. I don't recall him talking a great deal about back tension but I'm sure it's mentioned.


I have a copy of that book around here somewhere but haven't found it as yet... I was curious to see if he mentioned anything. That would be worth looking into. The more I think about it the more I see the possibility of it actually starting out as a diversion and then some actually developing it... and then promoting it.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

EPLC, I've been looking for the origination of the term "back tension" (dropping the "pure") as a firing method. I can say with quite a bit of certainty that the term describing the mythical act of "back tension" firing didn't exist until at least after 1986. That's about as far forward as I've gotten. Obviously, that doesn't mean someone didn't use the faulty term before that year just because I haven't found it. 

I do find it interesting that I found a Stanislawski ad from as recent as 1986 that had the Stanislawski III hinge advertised and there is not one mention of the term "back tension" in the ad. 

I'm pretty sure of who made the inaccurate term "back tension" as a firing method popular. But I'm not going to point any fingers until I'm reasonably certain of it.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

well, i don't know about where you guys shot, but in my neck of the woods, ( Milwaukee, WI area) when I learned it, back tension, meant exactly the way I do it. that was '74 or '75, and it was already well known and established then, so it's been around at least that long, because the rope&spike and ledge releases, were in common use and were for a while already. the shop that I shot at, was George Stadtler's shop...he was the original owner of Astro Bows. 
you know,.... the guy that might really be able to answer this question is "Chpro"...Jeff Button. he and his dad, came all the way from Cottage Grove (near Madison), to shoot the shop's spot leagues every week, because he was sponsored at the time, by Astro bows.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

The Stan website has a bunch of old (mostly 2000) and new manuals (2003-and newer). Here's one from 2000 that I found interesting, although it doesn't really answer the question. Note the instruction as to how it is activated and they do refer to it as a BT release.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

again, I don't know about how you guys shot years ago, but I have a good friend that had published, an article in the NFAA magazine about using d-loops in 1971 or '72, so there's nothing new about a hinge being used with a d-loop.
I am beginning to think that there are a lot pf people who don't realize, just how early this stuff has been developed and used.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

EPLC said:


> The Stan website has a bunch of old (mostly 2000) and new manuals (2003-and newer). Here's one from 2000 that I found interesting, although it doesn't really answer the question. Note the instruction as to how it is activated and they do refer to it as a BT release.


Yep. You're spot on about the terminology. Nothing I do is an exact science, but it's pretty safe to say the use of the faulty term "back tension" to fire a release started somewhere around Y2K. I still think I know who did it, but again, I'm not gonna say it unless I know for a fact. 

Funny thing about this search too. I was really heavily involved in archery for the entire 1970s. I thought I remembered a lot of things that happened just from memory, what I have found is that my timelines were off pretty bad and things didn't happen just the way I thought they did. I'll keep workin' on it. :cheers:


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

The above ad, "old fashioned" must relate to a gap along the way, noted in the ad and the rope holding on until of late? Still? 2012 was the last time I bought a hinge, 3 or 4, and at least one of them came with rope factory installed.

Sponsored shooters...Doesn't make any difference their rank, shop to factory....Want a cheap hinge or thumb? Attend enough archery events or ATA shows and you can pick them for a "dime." When did the TRU Ball Sweet Spot come out? I bought a red one the day after the ATA show for $50.
I've picked around 15 hinges and thumb releases over the past 4 years and not once paid more than $50 for one and list prices have been from $169 up thru over $200...Kept the ones I liked and sold the rest  Upper level Pro Staff shooter stopped in at the shop with a brand new Sure Loc Challenger with scope and lens. $80 later he walked out the door. It's on one of my bows


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

they refer to it as a "back tension" release for marketing purposes. by then already, hinges were incorrectly called, "Back tension releases". all they did is accommodate the consumer market, by using the term...same a Lancaster's does now..


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I graduated from high school in 1973 and shot in my first tournament in 1976, between those two dates, I learned "back tension" as I use it now, and I shot for at least a year +/-, using it, before entering the tournament, so it was well established, taught and used, by many ,then already.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ron w said:


> I graduated from high school in 1973 and shot in my first tournament in 1976, between those two dates, I learned "back tension" as I use it now, and I shot for at least a year +/-, using it, before entering the tournament, so it was well established, taught and used, by many ,then already.


Well, in 1974 Bob Jacobsen wasn't using it the way you describe it, so there was either some misinterpretation or there was no consensus back then either.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I really don't care how Bob Jacobson used it. i'm talking about the way I learned it and used it. and the way it was taught around the area that I lived and shot in. if it was being taught that way then, there had to be plenty of people using it, because it was taught to me by a Local PSE pro.
if people want to continue using it the way "Bob Jacobson did", so be it,...... I'll continue to use it the way I was taught, because it works. as I've said, it was taught to me the way I use it and most everybody that shot with back tension where I shot used it the same way. so there was a concensus that was well supported and established then already. 
the subject matter of this thread is where and when it originated, not how someone used it. just because Bob Jacobson used it, some specific way, doesn't establish that he originated back tension, now does it ?.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Not looking for a fight Ron, just pointing out what would seem to be obvious based on what we already know to be factual. In 1974 Jacobsen said he was using a combination of back tension and hand manipulation to fire his release, which may have been either a rope spike or a hinge. I have to assume that other successful shooters were using this method as well. Just trying to be logical here so try and bare with me. It would seem strange that a new release hits the market and along with it came all these rigid requirements on how to shoot it. Logically speaking, it would seem that at the time (mid 1970's) folks would be still using the same methods that they used for shooting the spike, which Jacobsen explained in reasonable detail. You claim to have been taught during that same timeframe the BT methodology that you continue to promote and continue to use today. Based on this timeline I have to assume the idea of not using any hand assistance must have started much later then your memory recalls it.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

That, or either Jacobsen was trying something new/different, or might never have been taught PBT.
I think it may be safe to say there was never a time when PBT was the ONLY way taught to shoot a hinge, or any release for that matter.
Perhaps it was more regional, or maybe Jacobsen just found a way that worked better for him.
I have no doubt PBT in some form was taught back when ron w learned, but it may not have been the exclusive method we may have perceived.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I


Mahly said:


> That, or either Jacobsen was trying something new/different, or might never have been taught PBT.
> I think it may be safe to say there was never a time when PBT was the ONLY way taught to shoot a hinge, or any release for that matter.
> Perhaps it was more regional, or maybe Jacobsen just found a way that worked better for him.
> I have no doubt PBT in some form was taught back when ron w learned, but it may not have been the exclusive method we may have perceived.


Possibly, but the way Jacobsen talked about it was pretty matter of fact which makes me think what he was doing was pretty commonplace. It just seems doubtful that the method that requires no hand manipulation started from the beginning. It would seem more reasonable that various methods were developed over time as people tried various ways to get the most out of the new "hinge".


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

EPLC said:


> Not looking for a fight Ron, just pointing out what would seem to be obvious based on what we already know to be factual. In 1974 Jacobsen said he was using a combination of back tension and hand manipulation to fire his release, which may have been either a rope spike or a hinge............. Based on this timeline I have to assume the idea of not using any hand assistance must have started much later then your memory recalls it.



no, your logic is skewed,.....what are you trying to say.......do you actually think that because one person made a comment about it, at one specific time, that is the way "everyone" did it, at that time...., or are trying to say I didn't learn it at that time ?.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I believe one thing stands out. Back tension combined with hand relaxation has been the standard for shooting a bow and arrow long before the release. Since we are certain that at least some early release shooters used a variation of this method and today's shooters do also, perhaps the method described by Jacobsen is actually the original "PBT" and everything that followed is a variation. To me this seems the most logical path.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

I believe you are on track there EPLC. Back tension is performed in the back, the release is (mechanically) performed at the hand, no matter what the shooting style or release, (with the exception of a couple of pull thru type releases.) I'm a little bit dubious of saying that the method described by Jacobson is the original pbt. Why? Because he didn't associate his back tension with the act of releasing the arrow. As it should be. 

I'm pretty sure the inaccurate mixing of the two aspects didn't officially happen until 2001. It's really odd, for something so commonly accepted as fact, (back tension as a *firing* method) there really seems to be no hard evidence of it's existence prior to that time. I'm winding my interest in this discussion down. If someone could come up with some hard evidence that _PBT_ existed prior to 2001 I'd be excited to see it.

Have a good day.............arrows to shoot. :cheers:


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I definitely know it wasnt y2k . I taught my wife in the early to mid 90's this way to shoot and it wasn't a secret by any means.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

Lazarus said:


> I believe you are on track there EPLC. Back tension is performed in the back, the release is (mechanically) performed at the hand, no matter what the shooting style or release, (with the exception of a couple of pull thru type releases.) I'm a little bit dubious of saying that the method described by Jacobson is the original pbt. Why? Because he didn't associate his back tension with the act of releasing the arrow. As it should be.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the inaccurate mixing of the two aspects didn't officially happen until 2001. It's really odd, for something so commonly accepted as fact, (back tension as a *firing* method) there really seems to be no hard evidence of it's existence prior to that time. I'm winding my interest in this discussion down. If someone could come up with some hard evidence that the myth existed prior to 2001 I'd be excited to see it.
> 
> Have a good day.............arrows to shoot. :cheers:


evidence ?....I've been providing evidence of it being used as a firing engine, for weeks now. 
I was taught that way back in '74 or '75. and it was commonly used, then already. so, it already existed, in the era of hooks and ledges, because they were still being commonly used, in those years.
who's the one that's,.... as you accuse me of,...being "rigid and unteachable", here.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Getting really old. Evidence? Written documentation? So long ago and history with gaps and holes.... Something on the order of giving real proof Jesus was actually crucified....

Roman Emperor Constantine, Council of Nicea, manuscripts debated of being burned, but one said torn to shreds before everyone, Bible canonized 397 A.D.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

EPLC said:


> I believe one thing stands out. Back tension combined with hand relaxation has been the standard for shooting a bow and arrow long before the release. Since we are certain that at least some early release shooters used a variation of this method and today's shooters do also, perhaps the method described by Jacobsen is actually the original "PBT" and everything that followed is a variation. To me this seems the most logical path.


I'll go so far as saying that back tension combined with hand relaxation had been _*A*_ method for shooting a bow and arrow long before the release.

Too many eye witnesses from back in the day to say it started this century.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

EPLC said:


> Evidence?


What is the standard of "evidence" here? Might help to clarify what you're looking for, to aid in providing it:
- what evidence would satisfy the request
- what is satisfactory diachronically (historically, over time)? Eg. what would be sufficient to demonstrate "PBT" was used 50 years ago? 100 years ago? 1000 years ago?

Understood the burden of proof is on the "PBT" advocates, but it's also not clear what evidence is going to be satisfactory to present.

LS


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## petesake (Jan 31, 2015)

Although he did not coin the term LW seems to be the first to research and define back tension by implementing the input from an actual medical doctor. 
Also note he speaks in terms of using Back tension as a means of releasing the arrow , not just the proper muscles in shooting the bow and holding at full draw.
Around the same time Bernie coined or at least adapted the term " target panic " and he in lies the answers. Bernies solution was " pure back tension releases "
--- " Bernie’s KnuckleUnder™ (patent #6,945,241B2) is a pure back tension triggerless release that comes in either 3 or 4 finger models and 3 
Waaaaa La - a problem was "created " ( target Panic ) and the answer was published in book form along with several devices to cure " target panic " - pure back tension trigger less releases -


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> The above ad, "old fashioned" must relate to a gap along the way, noted in the ad and the rope holding on until of late?...


Sonny, I believe the "old fashioned" method they referred to in the document was the option of shooting the release with the rope installed rather than the "new" method with the d-loop. 



stoz said:


> I definitely know it wasnt y2k . I taught my wife in the early to mid 90's this way to shoot and it wasn't a secret by any means.


Was the back tension method you taught in the mid 90's with a static hand or with hand manipulation of some sort? In this discussion it helps to know which.



ron w said:


> evidence ?....I've been providing evidence of it being used as a firing engine, for weeks now.
> I was taught that way back in '74 or '75. and it was commonly used, then already. so, it already existed, in the era of hooks and ledges, because they were still being commonly used, in those years.
> who's the one that's,.... as you accuse me of,...being "rigid and unteachable", here.


While some evidence has been presented, such as the Bob Jacobsen article and some of Larry Wise's articles, along with writings, talks, etc., from Levi, GRIV and others I really can't remember any hard "evidence" you have provided. I do find you opinions and recollections thought provoking though. If I may have missed something please refresh my memory.



Mahly said:


> I'll go so far as saying that back tension combined with hand relaxation had been _*A*_ method for shooting a bow and arrow long before the release.
> 
> Too many eye witnesses from back in the day to say it started this century.


Yes, I think WAY before... like back in medieval times.  Not sure about how many witnesses are available  so what they actually called it back then is a mystery... but the method certainly included the back and a process to relax the hand same as shooting with fingers today.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Sonny, I believe the "old fashioned" method they referred to in the document was the option of shooting the release with the rope installed rather than the "new" method with the d-loop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One term commonly referred to, is "Plucking the Yew". There is a story I've read somewhere where after the Battle of Agincourt the English were parading around with their middle finger in the air and yelling in unison, "we are still "plucking the yew."
Oh, and that battle really was NOT won by the archers...it was more because the French, with their heavy horses and heavy armor were stuck in the mud and couldn't move around. The weather and the mud did the French in, and failure to attack when they had superiority and the English were at their weakest finished the game against them winning the battle.
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswars14011600/p/battle-of-agincourt.htm 
Also the part above about parading around flipping the bird is NOT TRUE either. The part about the MUD is true.
http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.asp 

Just thought I'd toss this out there about "Plucking the yew" for the grins and education about this supposedly famous Battle where Archers supposedly dominated.




"Plucking the yew"


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

And now, "The Rest of the Story": Before the Battle of Agincourtin 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers. Without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the renowned English longbow and therefore they would be incapable of fighting in the future. This famous English longbow was made of the native English Yew tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew" (or "pluck yew").

The English would flip the bird to the French showing contempt over the threat... Or so legend has it. http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/pluck-yew.htm#.VM1nkyF0yUk


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ron w said:


> Unclejane, as I've said, most probably "right on the money".......your statement is additionally upheld, by the above request for "evidence"......clear as a bell....


I suppose it's a mildly interesting general line of inquiry anyway. For sure, humans and the bow and arrow go back a long long way into prehistory so there is certainly some Best Practices that have come about in all that time. PBT as defined in this thread is intermingled with the hinge release and, to some degree, the compound bow. But when you take that all away, it is kind of an interesting notion of what's left....

LS


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

What I was told is relax forearm and take rhomboids and make them basically meet. There was no talk of hand manipulation. My wife is still stuck on shooting this way.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

stoz said:


> What I was told is relax forearm and take rhomboids and make them basically meet. There was no talk of hand manipulation. My wife is still stuck on shooting this way.


I actually shot my PSE for 2 hours today at a 3 spot with the technique using my Honey Do. I literally just put the dot on, release the safety and pull with the back. goes right off. Im still trying to gauge if there's any yielding in my hand; I suspect there probably is a little due to the increased pressure against the wall, but nothing intentional consciously or subconsciously. 
It really does work for me.

I've weaned back onto my hinges successfully, tho I still keep my Stan with me in case my form breaks down again....

LS


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

interesting that someone might use the words "stuck on shooting this way", as though there's something wrong or incorrect, or of lesser value, about it. 
if that's the way someone is comfortable shooting, and it's working for them, how can it be such ?.

ironically, what I've noticed within this thread, is that those who practice the "hand or wrist manipulation method", assume that anyone that proclaims they don't use any "manipulation", are either lying or don't realize they are manipulating the release, to some extent.
no flaming intended here, simply an observation.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ron w said:


> interesting that someone might use the words "stuck on shooting this way", as though there's something wrong or incorrect, or of lesser value, about it.
> if that's the way someone is comfortable shooting, and it's working for them, how can it be such ?.
> 
> ironically, what I've noticed within this thread, is that those who practice the "hand or wrist manipulation method", assume that anyone that proclaims they don't use any "manipulation", are either lying or don't realize they are manipulating the release, to some extent.
> no flaming intended here, simply an observation.


I raised this a long time ago, but there's the possibility that some expansion of the hand could be going on with some PBT shooters as a consequence of pulling into the wall, but it's not an intended action. After a couple hours shooting with my hinge yesterday, it occurred to me that I might be "yielding" some very small amount without really realizing it. Conceptually and in terms of intention, I'm maintaining even pressure with the fingers and, as far as the conscious and subconscious mind is concerned, I just HB&S.

Still works with the Kung Fu Grip, but this may be an unintended aid that many of us are already using.

So credit there probably has to go where credit is due. I have, however, abandoned any *notion or intention* of rotating, relaxing, expanding etc. It may happen, but it's not something that's part of my "firing engine" at this point.

LS


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

unclejane, you're close to what field14 brought forth, biomechanics.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

exactly, we all realize that flex and give due to natural physiology, isn't what we're referent to when we speak of " no manipulation of fingers or wrist ". 
I also understand that unfortunately, the issue concerning this specific occurrence, must be brought to attention, least someone suggest that it happens and you don't realize you are "manipulating" , but don't realize it. as ridiculous as that might be, I don't doubt, for the sake of argument and agenda, it might happen.
never the less, in the intended meaning of "no manipulation" it must be clearly understood that the meaning has to include this natural occurrence.....It cannot be avoided.
I think it's ridiculous that this has to come up, and we have to "cover our butts", in this respect, on what should be an adult discussion.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

SonnyThomas said:


> unclejane, you're close to what field14 brought forth, biomechanics.


It's possible. All I know is, now my arrows go around that bail into the wall at the shop with a good surprise release and no anticipation issues. Freeing me up to work on the hitting-the-target thingy next... 

LS


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ron w said:


> exactly, we all realize that flex and give due to natural physiology, isn't what we're referent to when we speak of " no manipulation of fingers or wrist ".
> I also understand that unfortunately, the issue concerning this specific occurrence, must be brought to attention, least someone suggest that it happens and you don't realize you are "manipulating" , but don't realize it. as ridiculous as that might be, I don't doubt, for the sake of argument and agenda, it might happen.
> never the less, in the intended meaning of "no manipulation" it must be clearly understood that the meaning has to include this natural occurrence.....It cannot be avoided.
> I think it's ridiculous that this has to come up, and we have to "cover our butts", in this respect, on what should be an adult discussion.


Well I'll take it - if it happens naturally without me having to have any "intentionality" around it, I muchly prefer that. Haul Back & Shoot my puny brain can manage - my mind and target panic can't seem to handle the extra load of an additional technique. Like I said before, I could just be a more advanced case especially in terms of target panic, that I can't utilize methods like Shawn's. 

In other words, I may not be representative of most shooters' abilities. You know, watch me put an arrow into the ceiling and you'll see what I mean LOL....

But I can show that the technique works for me better than the others I've tried. Again, that's *not* a criticism of the other *methods*, just *my adaptability* to them.

LS


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

unclejane said:


> In other words, I may not be representative of most shooters' abilities. You know, watch me put an arrow into the ceiling and you'll see what I mean LOL..
> 
> LS


Holes in ceiling.... Last I counted at the shop was no less than 50 holes in the ceiling of the indoor practice range. 2 sets of four 8 foot light fixtures cross the ceiling down range. Two had to be replaced and no less than ten 8 foot bulbs replaced due to being shot. Two arrows made it through the steel roof, one remains (keeps the hole sealed  ). 4 or 5 arrows are broke off in the conveyor belting behind the target bales.
Many times I could have taken pictures of those on the line, 10 to 15 people, and that picture would make a coach sit down and cry......


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

SonnyThomas said:


> Holes in ceiling.... Last I counted at the shop was no less than 50 holes in the ceiling of the indoor practice range. 2 sets of four 8 foot light fixtures cross the ceiling down range. Two had to be replaced and no less than ten 8 foot bulbs replaced due to being shot. Two arrows made it through the steel roof, one remains (keeps the hole sealed  ). 4 or 5 arrows are broke off in the conveyor belting behind the target bales.
> Many times I could have taken pictures of those on the line, 10 to 15 people, and that picture would make a coach sit down and cry......


My shop (the Archery Shoppe in ABQ, NM) just leaves the arrows there. There's a bunch of em too in the wall up above the bails.... For some reason, that really helps me mentally LOL, especially at my shooting level...

LS


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Topic gentlemen. 
It's not what is right or wrong, it's when was PBT first taught.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

mahly, I don't think anyone here will ever be able to establish "when back tension was first taught, oe any releatively close example or date. there's simply not enough recorded or written information regarding that issue. ".
ironically, as a alternative to what was then considered status quoe, there are a few published examples of alternative methods of release manipulation that also include back tension as an element of their execution. those examples, stand out because of their existence and unfortunately, people assume that because they exist at the time they did, they are exemplifying the origin of the process, when in reality they simply demonstrate an alternative that was being used at that time.
there seems to be a few people, contributing to this thread, that are stuck on that train of thought and won't allow that the origin of the process is much older than the time indicated by the alternative examples. both rope and spike, and ledge releases have been around for a considerable time before those publications were made, and both of those releases were designed to be used with "what I call "rotational back tension".
now, given that that is said, the burden lies in establishing the legitimacy of whether or not those releases were in fact, designed to be used by "rotational back tension". unfortunately, but for a very few current members, satisfying that criteria can only be by word of mouth, (or post) in this case and then only with the admission, that an alternative method of "manipulation", was also most likely used, at that time 
hence we come to the stalemate this thread is currently in. those who want to believe the guys who were around at the time against those who want to believe that the published examples of alternative methods falsely signify the origin of, "as they call it "pure back tension".
the point s that an established date of origin, simply cannot be produced , because there simply is not enough published evidence, from that time in archery's history.
given that, the only satisfaction lies in whether those that read what the few members post, want to believe they are not making it up.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

I agree that the question is basically doomed, for the reasons Ron has stated (confirmation bias is another fatal problem for the question also).

Heck, I have my suspicions that the bow & arrow themselves are older than we think (putting aside technique for a bit to make a point). When I look at the Holmegaard bow, to me, even at 10K years old, it looks pretty decently advanced. We still make them and even hunt with them today. So that tells me the Holmegaard may be a late-state weapon and the B&A was probably around even earlier than 10,000 years ago. Who knows how far back it might go.

So, returning to the topic of PBT, we've probably got a similar situation on our hands there. The basics of pulling with the back to shoot a bow may go a lot further back than we can retrieve confirming information for. 

So I don't think there's really a way to satisfactorily answer this question; it's likely just a victim of confirmation bias and nothing more. PBT itself is too ill-defined and we simply wouldn't be able to determine when it originated even if it weren't.

LS


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## edthearcher (Nov 2, 2002)

I can not tell you when it started and maybe this has been posted. I saw my first release in the late 60s, in fact I built one out of wood at work. if i rember right it was a 2 finger with a little notch that you hooked on the string with, than pulled with your index finger you just pulled and pulled till it rotated in your hand. ( that was with a recurve bow) I still have one of the first stanlawski releases, you pulled with your index finger. this was advertized as the true back tension release. so in my mind unless i,am corrected he is the one who came up with the idea. I talked to i believe it was jerry carter many years ago on back tension he said just keep pulling with your elbo, and feel your shoulder blades close togeather. the idea of a back tension release was to have a surprised release not a controled release


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

edthearcher said:


> I can not tell you when it started and maybe this has been posted. I saw my first release in the late 60s, in fact I built one out of wood at work. if i rember right it was a 2 finger with a little notch that you hooked on the string with, than pulled with your index finger you just pulled and pulled till it rotated in your hand. ( that was with a recurve bow) I still have one of the first stanlawski releases, you pulled with your index finger. this was advertized as the true back tension release. so in my mind unless i,am corrected he is the one who came up with the idea. I talked to i believe it was jerry carter many years ago on back tension he said just keep pulling with your elbo, and feel your shoulder blades close togeather. the idea of a back tension release was to have a surprised release not a controled release


Could you post up a picture of your old Stan?


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

edthearcher said:


> I still have one of the first stanlawski releases, you pulled with your index finger. this was advertized as the true back tension release. so in my mind unless i,am corrected he is the one who came up with the idea.


I believe you are correct on the innovator. Would it be possible for you to come up with copies of material that "advertised [it] as the true back tension release?"

Thanks.


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## edthearcher (Nov 2, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Could you post up a picture of your old Stan?


went down stairs to my shop had a heck of a time finding it. I have never posted a picture in all the years i have been on archery talk. dont even no how to. so any way it is a dull silver, rope release, it has almost a full circle for your index finger, a little dog to the right for your middle finger, has a set screw on the back to adjust to half moon, for heavy or light pull. you must pull it with your index finger (safety) when at full draw and pin it in the bullseye. you squeeze your hand or touch the right dog with your middle finger, when it goes off it scares the sh## out of you


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

This is a little off topic but seems it's ok to post up old releases here. So here goes. 

Here is three old ledge type releases that date at least into the 60's and quite possibly into the late 1950's. I can't represent them that way though because I'm not certain they date that far back. These three releases belonged to Babe Bitzenburger. There is several other variations of this sort of release in the collection as well. 

To be very candid, they look quite dangerous. However if you think about it they were shot with bows with a very low string angle and lower poundage. I'm sure they were designed to shoot by pulling them back with a pretty good bite/angle on the hand coming to full draw, maintaining constant tension in the back and rotating your hand slightly much like the most successful methods of firing a release today. Just wanted to share some of the really, really old versions of the "release." 

I may dig out another style or two in time; :cheers:


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

ledges made from poly-carbonate, or plexi-glass, were pretty common, lot's of guys made their own.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

This is a picture of the write up on the Golden Key release made by Freddie Troncoso. This is the earliest reference of any release that I have found in any publication. I believe there are probably earlier references, but again, this is the earliest I have found. Found in the July 1968 issue of Archery (NFAA) Magazine. The write up is quite interesting if you look closely. Again, a little off track, but when you are faced with finding the origins of a certain item it's kind of like a jigsaw puzzle and an item that may seem unrelated could lead you to the piece you really need to solve the puzzle. 

:cheers:


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

good find !, 
the Golden Key MKII, and the Thomas "Trainer", that I mentioned I used in my earlier posts. were copies of each other, and both worked the same way, with the GK being a bit bigger dimensionally, that is, the pin barrel, being just a bit bigger in diameters than on the Thomas release. both worked identically . which came out first, or who copied who, I have no idea, because I bought the Thomas used in '73 or '74 and never saw a sample of the GK release during the few years that I used the Thomas.
the way I learned to use the Thomas, was to adjust the length of the rope that went from the pin, back to a wrist cuff, so that as you gripped the two finger posts ad closed your fingers around the finger posts, the rope would be slack. draw and anchor, and then relax (there's that word again) your fingers enough to feel the rope just get snug and hold it there, then start your back tension. as you pulled, the rope would pull a pin that went through the center of the main barrel between your fingers and retract it from a notch in a small round wheel, at the front of the main barrel, that retained to rope that was around your bow string. the wheel would then rotate and release the rope and the shot would go. because the rope between the cuff and the barrel ran along the bottom of your hand, to the cuff, rotational back tension would pull the pin as your elbow swept essentially from the stretch of your hand and fingers. in the instructions for the Thomas, it was even stated that firing the release by fully relaxing your fingers to let the barrel creep forward enough to release the wheel, was about the same a creeping on the shot and would promote the same inconsistent groups as creeping. 
I have only seen one example of the GK release and that was only several years ago at my club. my friend from the club that had the article about string loops in the NFAA magazine, back in about '71, was the owner of that release. I don't know what the instructions were like for that release, but I would assume, they were similar to the Thomas's instructions, because both releases were designed the same and worked identically.
I wouldn't mind having a Thomas again, it was a neat and different release, that worked very well. I assume the GK unit, worked similarly well.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ron w said:


> ledges made from poly-carbonate, or plexi-glass, were pretty common, lot's of guys made their own.


These were also designed to be fired with hand manipulation. Note the instruction sheet which clearly shows relaxation of the index to fire.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

what might be a more applicable, or reasonably exposing question, would be, " when was the term, "back tension" applied to the drawing process. i'll bet people were drawing bows with their rhomboid muscles, long before someone came up with a name that defined it as the primary process.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Just the other day I borrowed a copy of Idiot Proof Archery and found some of his theories and commentaries interesting... and also reinforcing my belief that this notion of having a static hand came much later than some would expect. In a nutshell, Mr. Pellerite promotes the notion that only type B personalities are best suited for using hand manipulation during their execution... and these type B's also make the best archers. He also promotes the notion that other personality types should use Back Tension as the firing engine. He also mentions "cheating" the hinge: He mentions that most archers need to hook really deep and make a relaxed fist. He goes on to say this keeps you from "cheating" by using the fingers to help the shot go off. 

Another statement that I found interesting, which also seems to support some of the theories I have posted is as follows: He claims most pros are better shooters than teachers and the rest of them see no advantage in educating the competition.

I'm thinking, unless proven otherwise, that this may very well be the origin of PBT as defined. This is certainly the only published reference that I know of that mentioned "cheating" the hinge. As I've said all along, back tension has been around as long as the bow and arrow, but this PBT thing (good or bad) is a relatively new concept. Idiot Proof Archery was copyrighted in 2001.


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## edthearcher (Nov 2, 2002)

EPLC said:


> These were also designed to be fired with hand manipulation. Note the instruction sheet which clearly shows relaxation of the index to fire.


Bingo thats the one i remember now, I was thinking the stan was first, but you fliped a switch, we copyed that out of wood. good job


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ron w said:


> here we go again,.....
> where, in what you quoted of my post, is there any reference to the method of execution being any specific type ?. how does the material they were made from, or "lots of guys made their own" suggest any reference to the method of execution with which they used them ?.


The information I provided was additional information and intended to be educational, and not in any way a challenge to what you posted. The intension of this thread was to investigate the origins of PBT, "Cheating the hinge" and anything associated with that process. The fact that this early release was designed to be shot with hand manipulation supports the notion that PBT came later. Please stay on topic.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Because a release was designed to use finger manipulation, doesn't mean that there wasn't another way to fire a release.
Bernie may have been one of the first to describe it, it doesn't mean he invented it.
PBT, may have been taught for a long time before anyone decided to write a book about it.
PBT seems to have become MORE well accepted as a firing method after Bernie's and Larry's books. I don't believe either claim to have invented it, but that is speculation.
Thus PBT may have been a popular, and eventually dominant firing method, but never the only one taught. I suspect HOW dominant it was depended one where you shot, some places may have had more top guys using it, others may have not.
Others have reported learning it decades before Larry or Bernie made a book.

Seeing the editing needed here, This thread is closed until someone PM's me with a date for inventing back tension as a NEW firing engine accompanied by evidence.


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