# Drop Away For Field?



## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

I have.. no problems.. used a quad on my pin bow at the hillbilly shoot last year, and my scoped bow is setup with a TT at the present, tho... it's slated to be upgraded soon, to a Mystic with a Britesite Pro Tuner.  :thumb:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

If I am not using a Tuner I would use a TT....should be fine...tons of people shoot them. You aren't going to shoot higher or lower scores with one over the other....IF they are setup correctly.:wink:


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## bigbuckdown XT (Feb 7, 2007)

couldnt be any better. i use the QAD Pro Hunter for everything. All the way up to 60 yards


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

bigbuckdown XT said:


> couldnt be any better. i use the QAD Pro Hunter for everything. All the way up to 60 yards


He is going a little farther out then that:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> He is going a little farther out then that:wink:


Just a little. 

There are some very good FSU archers here in Maryland using the TT with excellent results. Just wanted a little additional feedback. Plus...a ringing endorsement from *Hornet* always helps. :wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

There is nothing wrong with using a drop away...I shot one for target when they first started getting popular again a few years ago....shot some INCREDIBLE groups and runs at 70+ yds with a dropaway....like the day I shot 20+ X in a row at 80yds:faint: 

There are plenty of FITA guys using drop aways....I just still prefer a Tuner...

What ever you choose will work and work well IF you pick a good rest and set it up correctly.

That being said a Tuner setup correctly will allow you to still put the arrow in the middle at 70+ even if you nock it upside down:wink:


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

I know a pretty good shooter here in NC (OD nationals 1st or 2nd a few years ago in SMFS) that shoots one...seems to work pretty good for him...(540 + field scores...)

I have always subscribed to KISS...simpler the better. That's why I have a tuner...less moving parts and stuff to break...


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

psargeant said:


> I have always subscribed to KISS...simpler the better. That's why I have a tuner...less moving parts and stuff to break...


That's my only concern. I have a good friend who was shooting the round of his life with a Barner (remember that rest?) years ago and it failed on him.  Needless to say, he removed it the next day.

The Trophy Taker and some others are pretty simple designs. Should be durable and trouble free if installed correctly.  Besides, I wanna know how anybody can get clearance off a Tuner with Nano's or these other small diameter shafts.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

mdbowhunter said:


> That's my only concern. I have a good friend who was shooting the round of his life with a Barner (remember that rest?) years ago and it failed on him.  Needless to say, he removed it the next day.
> 
> The Trophy Taker and some others are pretty simple designs. Should be durable and trouble free if installed correctly.  Besides, I wanna know how anybody can get clearance off a Tuner with Nano's or these other small diameter shafts.


I've still got one of those barner rests...

I've never had much trouble getting clearance with anything from the original AFC carbons (the really skinny ones) to ACC's or ACE's on my tuners...

You can check the labels on my carbon express Maximas (well before the vanes) and find they aren't even scratched by the launcher...

Trophy taker is a pretty bullet proof rest (I tried one for awhile on a 3-d bow before I remembered why I don't shoot 3-d much and got rid of it), but more moving parts=more stuff that can fail. Just think what kind of havoc it could cause if your pull cord slipped a little...or a little slop developed in the point where the rest pivots...K.I.S.S....I'll stick with my tuner...


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

psargeant said:


> I've never had much trouble getting clearance with anything from the original AFC carbons (the really skinny ones) to ACC's or ACE's on my tuners...


Yep. Never had a problem getting clearance with my ACC's either. But, I saw some of the new high end Nano's last weekend.  They make those AFC's look like 2613's!!! Jeez, those things are small! Ain't no line cutting there. :wink: You would have to trim that Tuner blade down to a sliver to get vane clearance.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> That's my only concern. I have a good friend who was shooting the round of his life with a Barner (remember that rest?) years ago and it failed on him.  Needless to say, he removed it the next day.
> 
> The Trophy Taker and some others are pretty simple designs. Should be durable and trouble free if installed correctly.  Besides, I wanna know how anybody can get clearance off a Tuner with Nano's or these other small diameter shafts.


I have never had a TT fail....:wink: If you go with a drop..that is about the only one I would use for target or hunting....there is a reason you don't see people asking questions or having problems with them

I don't understand why people think you can't get clearance or will have problems getting clearance on a blade with little arrows...I have shot the smallest arrows made to the biggest off blades and not once have I had trouble getting clearance. The blade flexes out of the way and unless your nocking point is too low.....the arrows vanes should be lifted up high enough and clear of the blade by the time they get there....

I posted or have an article by Dudley on this some place. 99% of the time you hear someone say they missed because they nocked their arrow upside down on a Tuner style rest....they are full of poo....it won't mess with your arrow flight...unless you are shooting a big stiff vane like a Blazer (which IMO isn't a proper target vane anyway).

Seriously...would there be so many people shooting a blade and little Nano's, X10s, ACEs etc if clearance was a problem.:wink: Turn the engineer in you off....archery ain't work:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Yep. Never had a problem getting clearance with my ACC's either. But, I saw some of the new high end Nano's last weekend.  Jeez, those things are small! Ain't no line cutting there. :wink: You would have to trim that Tuner blade down to a sliver to get vane clearance.


Yes the Nano's are ittty bitty and the Nano Pros are even smaller 

I know last year TCR1 shot Nano's and I was shooting McKinney IIs I gave him a hard time the entire weekend about not catching lines

But you don't need to trim the blade down much if at all.....I have a few blades from years gone by that we had trimmed or made that were skinny but you don't really need to "doctor" a blade to get clearance. Most don't that I have seen.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I have never had a TT fail....:wink: If you go with a drop..that is about the only one I would use for target or hunting....there is a reason you don't see people asking questions or having problems with them
> 
> I don't understand why people think you can't get clearance or will have problems getting clearance on a blade with little arrows...I have shot the smallest arrows made to the biggest off blades and not once have I had trouble getting clearance. The blade flexes out of the way and unless your nocking point is too low.....the arrows vanes should be lifted up high enough and clear of the blade by the time they get there....
> 
> ...


Typically, and I've observed this on *EVERY* bow/rest set-up I've owned: At least one tip of the Tuner balde makes contact the entire length of the shaft. I index my nocks so this occurs between the vanes. Unless I set my nocking point abnormally high, this is what I see when powder testing. That is why I'm concerned with clearance on these small diameter arrows. 

So, I guess I'm the only archer who has this issue?  Or maybe the others won't break down and spend a few dollars on a can of spray powder.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Typically, and I've observed this on *EVERY* bow/rest set-up I've owned: At least one tip of the Tuner balde makes contact the entire length of the shaft. I index my nocks so this occurs between the vanes. Unless I set my nocking point abnormally high, this is what I see when powder testing. That is why I'm concerned with clearance on these small diameter arrows.
> 
> So, I guess I'm the only archer who has this issue?  Or maybe the others won't break down and spend a few dollars on a can of spray powder.


a tip having contact is a lot different then a vane clearence issue:wink:

I have used powder testing ONCE....that crap is awful....ukey: 

When you run into me this spring/summer my Nanos will be coming off a blade that hasn't been powder tested :wink:...


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

mdbowhunter said:


> Typically, and I've observed this on *EVERY* bow/rest set-up I've owned: At least one tip of the Tuner balde makes contact the entire length of the shaft. I index my nocks so this occurs between the vanes. Unless I set my nocking point abnormally high, this is what I see when powder testing. That is why I'm concerned with clearance on these small diameter arrows.
> 
> So, I guess I'm the only archer who has this issue?  Or maybe the others won't break down and spend a few dollars on a can of spray powder.


Typically you can tune the rest so that the contact is more of a skip and doesn't touch at all in the vane area.

Also you may be using to stiff of a blade. Try using a lighter one than suggested and powder tune again.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

swerve said:


> dTypically you can tune the rest so that the contact is more of a skip and doesn't touch at all in the vane area.
> 
> Also you may be using to stiff of a blae. Try using a lighter one than suggested and powder tune again.


Yep...the arrows he is shooting and the ones he is thinking about shooting he should be using the weakest blade he can find...and lowering the blade angle will help also


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> a tip having contact is a lot different then a vane clearence issue:wink:
> 
> I have used powder testing ONCE....that crap is awful....ukey:
> 
> When you run into me this spring/summer my Nanos will be coming off a blade that hasn't been powder tested :wink:...


When I say tip I mean the arrow is riding on ONE tip and making contact the entire length of the shaft. Like I said, I've seen this performance for MANY years when using a Tuner. Those CT Cheetahs you recommended were a breeze last year. The larger diameter helped.

You see...you just verified my suspicions.  The answer is Walgreens Foot Powder Spray. No offensive odor...cheaper than Desenex...and cleans off nicely.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

swerve said:


> Typically you can tune the rest so that the contact is more of a skip and doesn't touch at all in the vane area.
> 
> Also you may be using to stiff of a blade. Try using a lighter one than suggested and powder tune again.


You know swerve, I'm sure I tried all those options. Problem is you make that blade too flexible, it really makes it tough to draw back an arrow without it jumping off.  I'll keep those suggestions in mind...if the Trophy Taker doesn't work.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Sooooo...what is the big deal about ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL "clearance" any ways????

I know three of the top shooters in the world today that don't worry as much about TOTAL clearance as they do GROUPING AT DISTANCE.

Many fine scores have been shot with SPRINGIE rests...and trust me, you do NOT EVER get "total and absolute clearance" with a springie rest.

I've personally shot 550+ with springie rests, and UNCUT pacesetter launcher blades WITH CONTACT...but the key is CONSISTENT CONTACT and NOCK ALIGNMENT from arrow to arrow is as exacting as you can get it.

So much time is spent by so many people trying for total clearance...time that could be better spent getting alignment correct, CONSISTENT contact, or MINIMAL contact if you so wish, and GROUP TUNING instead of cutting down blades to a nubbin' and then HOPING for arrow guidance that you just REDUCED to a MINIMUM in looking for "total and absolute arrow clearance".

Getting a blade too narrow and losing guidance, IMHO, is more of a problem than SOME contact (as long as that contact is consistent)....things like having problems even drawing the bow back on a side hill or in a wind situation, or when you are tired...and having the arrow falling off the rest. Imagine that if it is falling off the rest under the above circumstances...then it is SKIDDING off the rest too...under strong or soft shot situations...and CAUSING MORE PROBLEMS than you need.

Oftentimes...the funny and squirrely misses one gets...can be traced down to a blade that is too narrow....

The key is in the GROUPING, now how pretty your total and absolute clearance is.

I shot an entire Sunday afternoon with a TOP PRO shooter....for over 5 hours, that person never missed a "10" on the Vegas face...and rarely missed the babyX...maybe 10 or 15 missed BABY X's all afternoon...and he had MAJOR CONTACT on his pro-tuner blade...you could see the "vane residue" on that blade...Did he CARE about contact? Nope...they were mostly babyX's and ALL "10's"...so the CONSISTENCY of his shot was there....and he had arrow guidance....

Did he shoot 'bad shots"? Absolutely...and they went right into the 10-ring...not always the babyX...but always the "10" ring.

field14


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

You know what field14...I was *WAITING* for someone to present that side of the story. Thanks for not letting me down. :wink:

I've heard the theories on springies many times and I agree...there is no way..especially for a release shooter that you can get vane clearance with that rest. And, many have shot some impressive scores using it. :tongue:

I guess for me, having vane contact runs counter to having good arrow flight. I'll admit I don't have a good argument for my opinion. It just seems logical.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> You know what field14...I was *WAITING* for someone to present that side of the story. Thanks for not letting me down. :wink:
> 
> I've heard the theories on springies many times and I agree...there is no way..especially for a release shooter that you can get vane clearance with that rest. And, many have shot some impressive scores using it. :tongue:
> 
> I guess for me, _having vane contact runs counter to having good arrow flight. I'll admit I don't have a good argument for my opinion. It just seems logical_.


It varies from person to person...but even when I was shooting my absolute best...if I "tuned to a bullet hole" thru paper and then went out to "group tune" at short and long range....after accomplishing the group tune, I could come home, run the arrows thru paper...and get...a nock high left tear, about 1/2" at 11 o'clock....SOOOO....after piddling with this several times...I finally got smart on my paper testing...TUNE the paper test to....a nock high left 1/2" at 11 o'clock...and VOILA...my short and long distance tuning was completed in a matter of minutes instead of painstaking hours of bullet holes that YIELD CRAP FOR GROUPS, especially at distance.

Now..>SOME people can get their best grouping with a bullet hole thru paper; others bare shaft at 20 or 30 yards...and only use paper to get close so they don't chance ruining a 'bare shaft" due to poor flight; still others eyeball it close...then go to group and french tuning.

It pays to find out FOR SURE whether a bullet hole is right for you or not...and for MANY PEOPLE....all you have to do is move back 18"....or even shoot a different arrow out of the quiver...and your "bullet hole" is GONE anyways. Better yet...get your "bullet hole" when you are fresh, then shoot a couple of hours...and try paper test again...IF YOU ARE BRAVE ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THE RESULTS!

CONTACT is the same way..the key is to try to minimize it and to get all arrow nocks aligned as close to exactly as possible...and then check EVERY ARROW to make sure each one contacts the same....

But TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE off of a launcher? Doesn't work for everyone...and in some cases, not at all.

I sure do agree about the moving parts of a fallaway, however. Also if your lanyard moves or stretches...it could really cost you dearly.

NARROW BLADES? IMHO.. a person can get them TOO NARROW and cause more problems than if they'd left it alone and taken SOME CONSISTENT CONTACT and shot for GROUPS....you will PAY LATER on those windy, crummy, "weak", or hilly course days that WILL HAPPEN...more than likely sooner than later. GIMME ARROW GUIDANCE and CONTROL over ZERO contact anyday...I'll tune the groups in with more confidence.

field14:wink::tongue:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> When I say tip I mean the arrow is riding on ONE tip and making contact the entire length of the shaft. Like I said, I've seen this performance for MANY years when using a Tuner. Those CT Cheetahs you recommended were a breeze last year. The larger diameter helped.
> 
> You see...you just verified my suspicions.  The answer is Walgreens Foot Powder Spray. No offensive odor...cheaper than Desenex...and cleans off nicely.


Like I said I know what you are talking about....but ONE tip touching doesn't bother anything...I have been shooting a Tuner for almost 10 years..the same one at that How big is the tip of your blade again.....:wink:

I promise you if you get clearance with your Cheetahs...and they weigh roughly the same as say a MK II....get the nock turned correctly and you won't have a clearance issue...I shot a 3-39, Hippo and a MK II off the same blade at one time or another last year without powder:wink:

I am not spraying anything on anything...Walgreens....Desenex....field14s special arrow powder:wink: Don't need to....if you can get 11 to clear after powder testing ONE you can get 12 to clear without powder testing ONE....this isn't rocket science or brain surgery....

turn off the engineer and K.I.S.S.....:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

field14 said:


> It varies from person to person...but even when I was shooting my absolute best...if I "tuned to a bullet hole" thru paper and then went out to "group tune" at short and long range....after accomplishing the group tune, I could come home, run the arrows thru paper...and get...a nock high left tear, about 1/2" at 11 o'clock....SOOOO....after piddling with this several times...I finally got smart on my paper testing...TUNE the paper test to....a nock high left 1/2" at 11 o'clock...and VOILA...my short and long distance tuning was completed in a matter of minutes instead of painstaking hours of bullet holes that YIELD CRAP FOR GROUPS, especially at distance.
> 
> Now..>SOME people can get their best grouping with a bullet hole thru paper; others bare shaft at 20 or 30 yards...and only use paper to get close so they don't chance ruining a 'bare shaft" due to poor flight; still others eyeball it close...then go to group and french tuning.
> 
> ...



Egggssss-Zachaaarrryyy


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I know a person that shot a couple of 60X 300's with a particular launcher set up...and one of those was 52X inside out. He was hearing an occasional "ticking" sound and figured he had "vane contact"...so...he CHANGED THE REST AROUND, and hadn't marked down the prior setting that gave him the 60X 300's.

Next several rounds....50 or 51X 300's...and a couple of 299's.... Shoots FAT shafts off of a very, very NARROW launcher blade..MUST HAVE ZERO CONTACT....

But he SWEARS you MUST have ZERO CONTACT; otherwise it is WRONG and you cannot possibly shoot high scores with any kind of contact...

So be it....I guess...whatever turns your crank.

NOW...I also know someone who is a TOP PRO...that has torn his bow apart after shooting a few 30 babyX 300 vegas rounds...because the 30X rounds were TOO DIFFICULT to get...he was working to hard for them....and guess what? After the teardown and re-tune...his 30X 300's became more frequent and were EASIER to accomplish. Does he have ZERO vane contact? ABSOLUTELY NOT...but what he does have is a FORGIVING setup that drills babyX after BabyX...WITH contact.

field14


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

the springy rest had contact and thear was great scors shot with them 
contact is over rated


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## dncx (Jul 11, 2005)

If you're having problems with your arrow falling off of the blade,you might try a d-loop under the nock.This seems to add down pressure on the blade.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

field14 said:


> I know a person that shot a couple of 60X 300's with a particular launcher set up...and one of those was 52X inside out. He was hearing an occasional "ticking" sound and figured he had "vane contact"...so...he CHANGED THE REST AROUND, and hadn't marked down the prior setting that gave him the 60X 300's.
> 
> Next several rounds....50 or 51X 300's...and a couple of 299's.... Shoots FAT shafts off of a very, very NARROW launcher blade..MUST HAVE ZERO CONTACT....
> 
> ...


I go by the second guys way of doing things....I will tear it down over and over until it is the way I want it....but contact isn't an issue....as long as it isn't bad...I just turn the nocks until they group in the same hole or close to it then let em eat


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

field14 said:


> I know a person that shot a couple of 60X 300's with a particular launcher set up...and one of those was 52X inside out. He was hearing an occasional "ticking" sound and figured he had "vane contact"...so...he CHANGED THE REST AROUND, and hadn't marked down the prior setting that gave him the 60X 300's.
> 
> Next several rounds....50 or 51X 300's...and a couple of 299's.... Shoots FAT shafts off of a very, very NARROW launcher blade..MUST HAVE ZERO CONTACT....
> 
> ...


So you are telling me in this case the archer had better performance with a setup where the fletching *WASN'T* clearing the rest? Interesting.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> So you are telling me in this case the archer had better performance with a setup where the fletching *WASN'T* clearing the rest? Interesting.


Once again...you are paying attention to the wrong part of what he said:wink:

He was shooting 60X rounds with contact also.....

It was a mental/comfort issue for him.....and not all contact is created equal:wink:

Over analyzing/thinking is gonna be the death of you


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Once again...you are paying attention to the wrong part of what he said:wink:
> 
> He was shooting 60X rounds with contact also.....
> 
> ...


Not over-analyzing...just trying to understand *ALL* of the variables. When it has been drilled into your head for 20+ years that fletching contact is a *BAD* thing...and many on here have proven otherwise...your gonna have questions.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Not over-analyzing...just trying to understand *ALL* of the variables. When it has been drilled into your head for 20+ years that fletching contact is a *BAD* thing...and many on here have proven otherwise...your gonna have questions.


Just depends on the type of rest...think about it....if you had to have ZERO contact and it was impossible or nearly impossible to get....would there be so many people shooting a Tuner?:wink: Look at the scores that get shot every year and have been for many years with this style of rest...and go back to springy before that.......

Contact is bad if it is effecting your setup in a negative manner...but you can have SOME contact and be fine...there is no need to go to a drop away just to get 100% of the contact gone....if you have a slight nock high left tear at 3' and it is a bullet hole at 8'...is that contact a problem:wink:


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Or if your groups are tighter with the contact than without. We forget that tuning a bow for forgiveness means matching it to us , our form. What works for me may not produce quite the same results for you.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

swerve said:


> Or if your groups are tighter with the contact than without. We forget that tuning a bow for forgiveness means matching it to us , our form. What works for me may not produce quite the same results for you.


Great point....I don't know how many times I have seen or heard someone with a perfect tear in paper and no contact say their bow groups like crap or isn't forgiving....:wink:


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> Great point....I don't know how many times I have seen or heard someone with a perfect tear in paper and no contact say their bow groups like crap or isn't forgiving....:wink:


Or they spent so much time tweaking for the perfect tear, zero contact, perfect cam rotation. They can't shoot well enough to tell if the bow shoots any better now than before the started.:doh:

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Great point....I don't know how many times I have seen or heard someone with a perfect tear in paper and no contact say their bow groups like crap or isn't forgiving....:wink:


I've talked to *LOTS* of archers who won't even leave their basement until they get that bullet hole through paper!  One of my best shooting set-ups gave me a 1.5" tear to the right.  Bow grouped great. However, it did pass the powder test!!!!! :wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> I've talked to *LOTS* of archers who won't even leave their basement until they get that bullet hole through paper!  One of my best shooting set-ups gave me a 1.5" tear to the right.  Bow grouped great. However, it did pass the powder test!!!!! :wink:


I know people like that.:embara: What is sad is that there are 100s of things that can change your tear that have nothing to do with the actual arrow, rest, and nocking point.....

1.5" tear....did you play with your yoke

What is this "Powder" you keep talking about?:noidea:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I know people like that.:embara: What is sad is that there are 100s of things that can change your tear that have nothing to do with the actual arrow, rest, and nocking point.....
> 
> 1.5" tear....did you play with your yoke
> 
> What is this "Powder" you keep talking about?:noidea:


Got a "bullet hole"....Just take a step forward or back...and that COULD and is very likely to CHANGE quickly...no more bullet hole....6 feet isn't good, IMHO...12 feet a bit better...but again...at 14 feet...you MIGHT get an entirely different "read"....

What good is a "bullet hole' if the bow won't group for short and long distance and those in between? Do you shoot "thru paper" on a field round?

field14


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I know people like that.:embara: What is sad is that there are 100s of things that can change your tear that have nothing to do with the actual arrow, rest, and nocking point.....
> 
> 1.5" tear....did you play with your yoke
> 
> What is this "Powder" you keep talking about?:noidea:


When I hear that I just shake my head. Funny, I don't remember *EVER* getting extra points on my score card for perfect paper test results.

No yoke on that bow. It was a Hoyt Super Slam Supreme. Shot my best scores with that bow. Used a Larry Wise arrow rest. :tongue:

Remember...foot powder spray...the stuff from Walgreens.  No wonder they always have plenty. Nobody uses it but ME! :wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

field14 said:


> Got a "bullet hole"....Just take a step forward or back...and that COULD and is very likely to CHANGE quickly...no more bullet hole....6 feet isn't good, IMHO...12 feet a bit better...but again...at 14 feet...you MIGHT get an entirely different "read"....
> 
> What good is a "bullet hole' if the bow won't group for short and long distance and those in between? Do you shoot "thru paper" on a field round?
> 
> field14


Yep, many do not realize that. I've heard guys talk about paper testing at 15 yards!  How much sense does that make?  By that time I would HOPE the arrow is stable...otherwise you got bigger problems.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> When I hear that I just shake my head. Funny, I don't remember *EVER* getting extra points on my score card for perfect paper test results.
> 
> No yoke on that bow. It was a Hoyt Super Slam Supreme. Shot my best scores with that bow. Used a Larry Wise arrow rest. :tongue:
> 
> Remember...foot powder spray...the stuff from Walgreens.  No wonder they always have plenty. Nobody uses it but ME! :wink:


When did Hoyt start making Binary cams....:noidea: They had a yoke......it was a dual cam/wheel bow wasn't it....or was it that one that had the wierd bracket thing:noidea:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Yep, many do not realize that. I've heard guys talk about paper testing at 15 yards!  How much sense does that make?  By that time I would HOPE the arrow is stable...otherwise you got bigger problems.


makes better sense then doing it up close and pulling your hair out...I would rather see what it is doing at 15 yds then 10ft.....

Shot one through at 28 yds the other day....it was doing what I thought it was also:wink:


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Just to affirm what a couple have been talking about here........

One of my best set-ups had a tear through paper (roughly 6' away) that had to have been at least 2" high (nock point was maybe 1/4" above center). Tried the powder thing, dropped the nock point until I started getting contact. 2" high tear throughout the changes. Moved nock point back up to 3/16" area and left well enough alone. The arrow kicked straight up, then leveled out at approx. 10-15yd, no fishtailing however. For the record, this set-up got me 3rd place at the Wausau NFAA Outdoor Natl Pro Men FS division, including a 558 last day on the Hunter round, and I regularly shot in the 550's with this set-up. Turns out the rest was a little stiff for the arrows, but man did that set-up group.

Second set-up, shooting a GK launcher, was shooting some really good groups at 65yd......but then noticed I was getting blade contact with one of the vanes; hard enough to draw a scratch in the vane. Went home, powdered everything, spent better part of an evening meticulously working on getting 0 contact and a near bullet-hole through paper. Went back out the next day to 65yd to fine tune and found my group size had more than doubled. Started fine tuning the arrow rest until I got my groups back to hitting x's and staying consistently in the spot on the 65yd NFAA field face. Out of curiousity when I got done I applied a little more spray and found I was right back to getting the same vane contact I had before screwing everything up the night before. That set-up also averaged in the 550's on a field course. Contact was probably the result of not being able to get enough spring tension on the GK blade (back when the GK blades were really stiff and tension was adjusted via setting the spring tension on the rest).

Long and short of it, as BH, f14 and other have stated, contact is not necessarily bad, as long as it is consistent and doesn't interfere with your groups and a perfect bullet-hole is not necessarily an indicator you have your bow tuned. 

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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Jeff said it so well that I'll only add this... The only bullet hole I care about is the one in the center of the X-ring...:wink:

I often shoot through a paper rack at 4' - 6' just to see what's happening but I adjust by results at the butt ,not what a piece of paper tells me..


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> When did Hoyt start making Binary cams....:noidea: They had a yoke......it was a dual cam/wheel bow wasn't it....or was it that one that had the wierd bracket thing:noidea:


Nope...not Binary. One end of the cable went to the cam...the other end attached to the opposite axle inside the limb tips. Used a large grooved spacer for attaching the cable loop.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> makes better sense then doing it up close and pulling your hair out...I would rather see what it is doing at 15 yds then 10ft.....


I would expect all arrow flexing would be done by the time the arrow reached 15 yards. That's why it doesn't make much sense to me.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> When I hear that I just shake my head. Funny, I don't remember *EVER* getting extra points on my score card for perfect paper test results.
> 
> No yoke on that bow. It was a Hoyt Super Slam Supreme. Shot my best scores with that bow. Used a Larry Wise arrow rest. :tongue:
> 
> Remember...foot powder spray...the stuff from Walgreens.  No wonder they always have plenty. Nobody uses it but ME! :wink:


We have a couple of "top" shooters out here that when they are "on" shoot lights out....but their scores are roller coaster rides....a couple of them NEVER, EVER....match the alignment of their arrow nocks...and are proponents of ABSOLUTE and TOTAL vane clearance and shoot as narrow of a blade as they can make it....scores are all over the board...but man, when they are "ON"....they shoot awesome...but one little nuance...and they are all over the board...still shooting 300's...but X-count....from 60X down to mid 40's and anywhere in between....
They want absolute clearance, but won't make absolutely certain that those NOCKS ARE ALIGNED EXACTLY from arrow to arrow to arrow....spend more time adjusting the REST or DL....but NOT checking nock alignment...a couple also..NEVER NUMBER THEIR ARROWS either....so they don't know if the same arrow is consistently hitting off center or not. Yet...they ARE...."top shooters" and tough to beat on their "on" days.

field14


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Back to the original query. I use a TT fall away rest with all arrows and venues. They work just great at 20 yards and 80 yards. By the way, if you are set up properly, you can shoot a TT Spring Steel with the vane straight down and shoot great groups. Kind of like shooting 550s all year long with my springie rests.


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