# Fast flight vs. Dacron strings



## kegan

A well built high performance string can completely change the bow for the better over a lesser string.


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## longbowguy

You bet! The modern string materials are significantly faster, and better in most every respect with about every kind of bow. Some bows made prior to about 1975 used fibreglas that was prone to splitting. For those fine old bows many of use still use 'dacron' strings as a precaution. For all other bows including all wood 'primitive' type bows the modern string materials are superior.

They are very strong so thinner strings are possible, but many of us prefer 15 or 16 strands for convenience and stability. You may well get 5% or more greater speed and power, plus a sweeter and quieter shot. Naturally, results vary. - lbg


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## Viper1

Joe - 

I have no idea what a laser hp string is. 

The difference in speed between a PROPERLY MADE and TUNED Dacron and a PROPERLY MADE and TUNED FF-type string, may be on the order of 10 fps or less - IF the bow was designed to take advantage of the newer materials. 
Comparing a minimal stranded FF-type string and an over build Dacron string, really is apples and oranges. Comparing both strings with correct strand counts, see above.

Depending on what you're doing that may or may not be significant. 

Viper1 out.


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## BarneySlayer

How long is your bow, or how long is your string, or whatever?

If I have any leftovers that size, I'd be happy to send you something.


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## MGF

I guess it depends on what you're doing and what you're after. I've had some good "high performance" strings made by others. However, I still have a big spool of Dacron (B50) and, for the shooting I do, I'm just as happy with the 14 strand b50 strings that I make..


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## pghrich

i too have an omp recurve [mountaineer] it came with two dacron strings [one endless loop and one flemish twist] i bought a fastflight string from stilldub [12 strand] and it is a completely different bow, quieter, faster, and seems to come alive when shot. thats my erperience


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## dhaverstick

I have never noticed any appreciable performance gain by using strings made from the newer materials vs. B50 or B55. In fact, I have found the strings to make more noise, not less. There are so many variables to shooting performance that it's hard for me, with my mediocre shooting ability, to say that changing one particular thing really made my shooting or bow improve. 

I own a whole closet full of recurves, longbows and selfbows. They all have Flemish twist Dacron strings on them and I have killed a lot of game with them so that's good enough for me.

I also make my own strings and it's really hard for me to buy a 1/4 lb spool of D97 for $40 when I can buy the same size spool of B50 for $10.

Darren


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## High Plains

When I was putting together my ILF bow, I made a B55 flemish string for it untill I ordered a 8190 endless loop string. Once I put the 8190 string on there was no comparison between the two, the 8190 was far better. I don't have a chrono but I would imagine the difference was 10+ fps with the 8190.


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## Ekku Zakku

When I first got a FF string for my Samick Sage (the B50 string that came with it broke while I was shooting...), the FF string initially started sending my arrows all over the place. It was partially the plastic vanes on my arrows, and partially my form, so I will say that a FF string will bring out a lot of things in a bow/shooter due to the faster speed. However, since I've gone FF, I won't go back; the bow does indeed feel alive as pghrich mentioned. With a B50 string, my Sage just felt a bit dull, and of course it broke which leaves me wary of B50 in general. I definitely feel like FF is worth the money.


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## BarneySlayer

Being stiffer, the fast flight kind of material will have more higher frequency harmonics than the dacron. The character of the harmonics will vary depending on the specifics of the material, and to some degree, the string construction. If you use silencers, and they're placed well, this need not be an issue. Also, much of the string noise is often the string slapping against the limb after the shot. Sidp from Border Bows clued in to laying a 3/4 inch piece of soft side velcro, centered where the string leaves the limb when braced. Totally removes any buzz.

Then again, my wife's montana was incredibly quiet with a dacron string, albeit with heavy arrows, and not so fast either. Ultimately, went with fast flight plus with otter fur balls, and it is just as quiet.


Either will work. I prefer a modern material myself, given the option, as i like the feel, and I prefer to have more of the energy that I put. Into the bow make it into the arrow, all else being equal, or capable of being made so (because if you get down to the details, all else is never equal) but any material is capable of shooting better than we can.


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## zonic

A little off subject, but is there any validity to the suggestion that 3 under produces a louder shot than split? I'm moving from a longbow that had an EL string of 8190 on it to a longbow that has a flemish of Fast Flight Plus and the bowyer pointed out that 3 under (which I shoot) is louder. I hadn't heard this before.


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## Viper1

E - 

There is something wrong with your bow or other piece of equipment, Dacron doesn't break that easily.
The odds are there's a rough spot on a string nock, or if you are using crimp on nicking points, a gorilla may have installed them.
Where are the breaks happening?

Zonic - 

A lot of people have said that, however if the bows are tuned correctly for each method, finger position shouldn't matter, sound wise. 
The only exception I can think of, would if the bow was so short or built so poorly that tiller couldn't be adjusted by moving the nocking point. 

Viper1 out.


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## MoSportsman

All I know is when I changed over to the Fast Flight Laser you speak of from 3 Rivers. I had to change arrows from 500 to 400 and that means it is shooting a bit harder. I have not put it on a crony after I changed strings so I do not know for sure what it did to speed, but the 400 arrow is a little heavier so it might be a wash.


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## zonic

Viper1 said:


> Zonic -
> 
> A lot of people have said that, however if the bows are tuned correctly for each method, finger position shouldn't matter, sound wise.
> The only exception I can think of, would if the bow was so short or built so poorly that tiller couldn't be adjusted by moving the nocking point.


Thanks Viper. I do not want to change shooting styles. But being a deer hunter I do want the quietest shot possible from my trad bow.

I have a nock locator above and below. I wonder if some experience some small sound without a lower nock point? I think I have heard that the nock end of the arrow has a tendency to push down on release when shooting 3 under.



pghrich said:


> i bought a fastflight string from stilldub [12 strand] and it is a completely different bow, quieter, faster, and seems to come alive when shot.


I love stilldub's Dacron strings! They are quiet and built to last. I had one on my horsebow and another on my Shakespeare. They're a pleasure to release.


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## Ekku Zakku

Viper1 said:


> E -
> 
> There is something wrong with your bow or other piece of equipment, Dacron doesn't break that easily.
> The odds are there's a rough spot on a string nock, or if you are using crimp on nicking points, a gorilla may have installed them.
> Where are the breaks happening?


Hi Viper1,

The string broke about halfway between the nocking point and the limb nock, just on bare string. I did look the string over about a week before, since it was pretty soon after I bought it. I blame it as a lemon string since I'm sure not many people have that issue with the Sage. I did see a review on Lancaster Archery where the string also broke on them. I will admit that it's pretty much just psychologically that I feel safer with FF string material after that happened, not so much based on any kind of evidence.

Thanks for your reply
- Zach


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## Caughtandhobble

Joe, 

Where did your string break at? I have had several string failures, all were investigated thoroughly and none were due to a faulty string. Burrs on the bow tips, beat up nocks with sharp edges, storage areas all should be looked at when a string fails. This is unless the string is very old and seriously needed changing out anyways. 

I don't know anything about the new string that you mentioned first of all, but a well made string can and likely will boost your bow's performance. I actually went from a FF string on a bow that I had to a Rick Barbee string and I was shocked at the difference in performance. Rick Barbee makes strings that will make most any bow reach it's full potential, when I received the Barbee string I had to start using a much stiffer spine arrow.

Good luck and let us know how your new string works out for you. Happy Holidays!!!


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## Viper1

Zack -

Upper or lower limb? 
Any way of you posting a picture of one of the broken strings, at the break point? 
My concern is that if an external force caused the break (and willing to bet it did), then sooner or later the FF string will end up the same way. 
Even with a low strand count, the odds on all strands going at the same time is pretty slim. 

Mo - 

I inadvertently built a B-50 string for one of my Oly bows, which usually gets a D-97. (Don't ask...)
It shot beautifully and the point of impact was pretty much spot on, until I tried to bare shaft it. 
The bare shafts impacted about 6" left of where they were supposed to. 
So yes, there's a difference, but having to go from a 500 to a 400? That seems like a big jump. 

Viper1 out.


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## Ekku Zakku

Viper1 said:


> Zack -
> 
> Upper or lower limb?
> Any way of you posting a picture of one of the broken strings, at the break point?
> My concern is that if an external force caused the break (and willing to bet it did), then sooner or later the FF string will end up the same way.
> Even with a low strand count, the odds on all strands going at the same time is pretty slim.


Upper limb, and sorry, I didn't take any pictures and I trashed the string right after. The only thing I can think of is that I often hang my bow at that shooting range by the string, on a series of metal hooks just behind the shooting line. They seem quite smooth, but perhaps that could have caused some damage to the string.

This discussion has reminded me of a possible concern I have though. I've been considering putting string silencers on my bow, would that have any possible issues that could cause a string breakage? If there's any chance of that, I might forgo them.

Thanks


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## Viper1

Zach -

Most string silencers are safe.
The way some people attempt to install them is something else.

If you need to separate the strands, do it with the bow unstrung and DON'T stick anything between the strands - no matter how "dull" you think it is. 
Doing that is common practice with a lot of compound types, but I've seen enough string blow because of that. 

Willing to bet one of those hooks you were hanging your bow on had a burr... 

Viper1 out.


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## Joe Ryan

All of this came about cause I cut my CX heritage to 29.5" (my DL is 26.5") and they wound up being way too stiff. I followed the CX chart that said my 150s should be just right... Not. I wound up installing 100gr inserts and switched to 125 tips and still were a bit stiff. I didn't want to add more weight, as I'm already at 535 grs with a 19% EFOC. So I switched to the laser hp string from Three Rivers ( it's FF) figuring it might put a little more energy into the shot. After bare shafting I'm now a hair weak and a tad nock high... So alls well now.. And thanks so much for the input. I'm anal about stuff like that and have a tendency to overthink stuff. I'd rather blame myself for poor shooting.


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## MGF

Boy, I just haven't seen this huge benefit to the low stretch materials. I actually like the sound of Dacron better. I'm not saying that either one is "louder" but the low stretch stuff sounds "different".

I can understand wanting to get all you can from your bow but, in my backyard, I'm what needs to be higher performance...not the string. LOL


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## BarneySlayer

MGF said:


> Boy, I just haven't seen this huge benefit to the low stretch materials. I actually like the sound of Dacron better. I'm not saying that either one is "louder" but the low stretch stuff sounds "different".
> 
> I can understand wanting to get all you can from your bow but, in my backyard, I'm what needs to be higher performance...not the string. LOL


a lot of us can get overly obsessive, even between differences between modern materials. Huge is relative, and the importance of that difference is a matter of preference.

if, in the end, it does what you want, it is perfect


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## ismo131

Can modern tradbows handle those new stringmaterials, BCY 8190? When i have fastfight there is 16 strings but this new material is thinner so i reken its like 20 strings that it would take.


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## BarneySlayer

Yes. No problem. If it handles fast flight, it should handle anything else.


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## ismo131

With fastflite flemish sting, that come with the bow, sound is maild. But with this new string that i make from BCY 8190 and endless loop, sound is like instrumental music. String silencers damp it down little. It's that sound amount faster arrow.


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## zu!

ismo131 said:


> With fastflite flemish sting, that come with the bow, sound is maild. But with this new string that i make from BCY 8190 and endless loop, sound is like instrumental music. String silencers damp it down little. It's that sound amount faster arrow.


Louder usually means energy lost to sound. Quieter is better. Adjust brace height until it's really quiet. I use my iPhone and the decibel meter app. Take 10 shots at 1 brace height, change take another 10, get children whose math is better than yours and show them how they can use their skills for real stuff like this 

1 or 2 decibel differences can be quite audible.


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## ismo131

I don't beleave that. If githar string is tight its sound more than loose one. I think that flemish strings just flex more, and that is waste of energy


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## zu!

ismo131 said:


> I don't beleave that. If githar string is tight its sound more than loose one. I think that flemish strings just flex more, and that is waste of energy


If a guitar string is tighter, it merely results in a higher pitch, not a louder sound. A double bass un-amplified can make your body vibrate. I don't know of a guitar that does that. 

Physics seems to indicate that the louder the sound, the more energy is needed to create said sound. That, presumably, is energy that did not go into your arrow...hence wasted energy.


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## karl_eller

The amount of energy required to create sound (at least when compared with the energy released by the bow) is pretty minimal, you'd get greater gains or losses by tiny changes in your draw length.


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## Roger Savor Sr

Here is the deal......If your comparing 16 strands of Dacron to the same number of "Fastflight"(a particular brand name of string material which is quite outdated and NOT a category of string materials, btw)strands and the build is the same, you'll gain minimal speed - like 4-5fps. Now, take one of the contemporary/modern/low stretch and creep string materials built using 9 or 10 strands for what's known as a "skinny string", and you can gain 12-15fps like I have........Now, that is significant.

There are other benefits to the modern low strand count/"skinny string". They are much quieter on the shot than a heavy Dacron string can even think of being - yep, I did just say that. Felt vibration in the bow is greatly reduced in these modern strings too, and obviously all noise is vibration. The 10 strand Rhino string that I made about 7 months ago was waxed the day I twisted it up and has not needed waxed since. The durability and tensile strength of this stuff is outrageous - Dacron can't touch it. You can build a 9/10 strand Dacron, but in doing so you'll end up with a string with an incredible amount of creep-n-stretch, additional noise and a far weaker end product. Just my observations through experience though.


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## clifflowe

Can bcy 452x be used on the Samick phantom.
Cliff


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## Thin Man

Cliff, 

452 can be used on recurves. A few years ago, Martin was using it on their new bows and offered it in their accessory catalog.


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## clifflowe

Thin Man said:


> Cliff,
> 
> 452 can be used on recurves. A few years ago, Martin was using it on their new bows and offered it in their accessory catalog.


Thanks, good to know.
Cliff


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## zu!

Could I use a modern FF type string on a Browning Fire Drake? I've had not much luck with strings on this bow. First I changed s new string at the local shop, regular Dacron endless. It started fraying after a few months, just a few inches above the serving. Never did find out what did it. 

Then I bought a stilldub Flemish string (Dacron) and it served me well, however, when I took off the string completely to clean the paint off the bow, I discovered that the bottom loop (the one I never remove from the nock) had almost completely unravelled! Stilldub hasn't replied my emails, so I'm not going back to him. 

So I was back at the local store and someone there said I should try a modern string. I deferred as I bought these older bows could only use Dacron. But she pointed out that the tips were "reinforced". 

Anyway, I bought the same Dacron endless loop that I started with.


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