# Tiller or not to tiller.....tis the confusion



## harleyryder (May 2, 2005)

mentioning the make of your bow is bashing, it's providing the information thats needed,A solo cam and a dual cam are usually differant in the way they're measured,


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## harleyryder (May 2, 2005)

Pleas make note of the error above , should read "isn't bashing"....mentioning the make of your bow isn't bashing, it's providing the information thats needed,A solo cam and a dual cam are usually differant in the way they're measured,


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Solo, dual and hybrids all set differently...


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## GatorSlayer (Oct 24, 2003)

I see your point, so I will give all the information. The bow is a PSE with Hyperlite limb pockets. I have the hybrid cams. With the tiller set you can see, because of the design of the pocket, that the bottom limb is a lot further in than the top limb.

I took one of my calipers and measured from the riser limb side of the riser to the inside of the limb just at the limb bolt (the hyperlite pocket makes this easy) and set each limb to within 10,000 of an inch. See the attached picture for clarification.









When I checked the tiller with the limbs set like this, the tiller was 1/4" off. I have the bow set right now with the caliper. Should I set it with the string and ignore that the bottom limb is tightened down more than the top limb?


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## harleyryder (May 2, 2005)

The tiller is the measurement from the bow to the string .I doubt if PSE is any differant But that is one I don't know much about.Be patient, somebody will come along and tell how to measure that distance. I did just do quick search on the PSE site but nothing ther except for a WARNING on your hyperlte limb pockets.you might want to read it if you all ready haven't


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

http://forums.pse-archery.com/showthread.php?threadid=26185


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## MA_Bowhunter (Jan 11, 2006)

Or don't bother measuring tiller and instead, try something a little different by fine tuning the bow's tiller to fit your grip style. "Arthur P" on another forum has posted this a number of times:

"Arthur P
Every time I post this, I wind up ruffling some feathers among the 'crank it down and leave it' crowd, but ignorance deserves to have ruffled feathers. 

The biggest thing most folks can do to help them take out most of that up/down movement is to fine tune their tiller to their own shooting style. Just setting tiller to zero on each end with the bow at brace height (static tiller) rarely gets the job done. Your grip might put more pressure high up in the handle, the next guy's grip might put pressure lower on the handle Or vice versa. How/where pressure is applied in the handle can change the relative strength of each limb during the draw/aim/shot sequence (dynamic tiller). 

In an attempt to forestall the inevitable argument....While the actual strength of the limbs don't change, the balance of strength does. Imagine the bow is a seesaw with 35 pounds of weight on each end, and your hand is the pivot. As long as your pivot is exactly centered between the weights, the seesaw stays balanced. Change the location of the pivot and you have to adjust the weight on each end of the seesaw to keep it balanced. When the pressure is off center in your bow's grip, then the weights at the end of the bow/seesaw must be adjusted to balance. 

When one limb is stronger than the other, the bow will try to pull up or down while you're trying to hold on the target. To adjust, hold your sight pin on a target, then slowly begin to draw. Watch the pin. 

If it wants to pull UP, off the target, then the top limb is stronger in relation to the bottom limb. Back off the top limb bolt , add too the bottom limb bolt, or both. 

If it wants to pull DOWN, then the bottom limb is stronger in relation to the top limb. Take off on the bottom limb bolt, add too the top limb bolt, or both. 

Keep adjusting until that pin stays stable all the way through the draw cycle. What a bow does during the draw is exactly what it will do during the shot, just backwards and slower. If the bow wants to pull up during the draw, it's going to KICK down during the shot. Any movement from the bow during the shot will be transferred to the arrow, which will affect speed, accuracy and tune-ability. 

Fine tune the bow's tiller to fit your grip style, and you'll have a lot easier time controlling that up/down movement at full draw. And your bow will be easier to tune; it will shoot smoother with less recoil; it will be quieter, more accurate and maybe even faster. "​
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...rthur+p+bow's+tiller&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

*Contact PSE! They will tell you*

:darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer: :darkbeer:


GatorSlayer said:


> I see your point, so I will give all the information. The bow is a PSE with Hyperlite limb pockets. I have the hybrid cams. With the tiller set you can see, because of the design of the pocket, that the bottom limb is a lot further in than the top limb.
> 
> I took one of my calipers and measured from the riser limb side of the riser to the inside of the limb just at the limb bolt (the hyperlite pocket makes this easy) and set each limb to within 10,000 of an inch. See the attached picture for clarification.
> 
> ...



Contact PSE I'm sure they will tell you how it is to be set up. I had a 1999 Parker Ultra lite. I din't think of it until I put on a set of Winners Choice strings and cables. What I found out was measure everything and write it down! I had the ATA right and not enought #'s, and the tiller was out 1/4. On the bottem limb. Tiller is mesured from string to back of limb at the pocket. They told me it was that way on that bow. How to look at the Cam to get it in "time", and I got my #age back! I just had to twist the buss cable.

As far as tiller I bottom both limbs out. Tottaly screwed in. Then work from there. I had no problems, ie same amount of turns, when shooting lower pounds.

Like I said when in dought call them "PSE" should be able to help!

PSE= Parts Scattered Everywhere? NO just kidding! They are great bows!!!
Hope this helps.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Ok....

Hybrid cams need to be in sync or in time with each other... Next step... for those with a draw stop on the cam and another on the control wheel (top cam) the draw stops must also be in time ( hit at or near the same time).

This poses a problem to the bow tuner... now the designer thoughtfully throws in reference marks, which many mistakingly call timing marks. 

All this just confuses many folks... 

1. Tiller on a hybrid cam is measured from the string to the junction of the limb and limb pocket... no where else....

2. The cam sync will mess with tiller....

3. Trying to tune the tiller will only add to your grief, unless you follow the correct proceedure. 

4. It ain't done with the limb bolts until after the cams are in sync.

5. Even then tiller tuning a hybrid cam is only affecting the cam sync, nock position and nock travel...

6. Nock position is what affects the feel of the bow in your hand... not limb load.... By moving the nock up or down you move the fulcrum point...

7. Tiller tuning was originally done by shaving the side of the limb to weaken it... Turning a limb bolt does not affect the spring rate of a modern compound bows limb. It only affects the preload and cam / nock position.


Bottom both limbs and check the tiller.... if they are off then you need to "TUNE" the cams by twisting/untwisting the cables...


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## MKD (Feb 8, 2003)

*You da man*

Javi how can one man know so much. You are a great assest to this site and I thank you for contiuing to help us novice archers. Great reply thanks.


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## Arrroman (May 11, 2003)

GatorSlayer said:


> I will not mention manufacturer to prevent bashing of product. With that said I have a delima. When the tiller is set perfectly on my bow, measuring to a string that is set from axle to axle, it is obvious that one limb is in more than the other. With the limbs set so that they are both set the exact same in relation to the riser, the tiller is almost 1/4" out. So, do I set the tiller in relation to the string, or do I set the tiller according to the limb and riser relation???


Actually the tiller of any bow has to be set in relation to the nocking point of the bow in a fashion that will best launch its arrow.

Tiller is a bit like power steering on the rear end of the arrow when the bowstring is released. 

Even an inordinately high or low biased nocking point can be accomodated by adding tiller to the bows limb in the opposite direction, causing the bow to launch a level arrow.

Its only on bows without adjustable limb bolts that you have to move the nocking point up or down in order to affect the attitude in which the arrow leaves the bow.

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>


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## Brokenrack (Jan 18, 2006)

Maybe something has changed but I was taught that because compound bows had eccentrics and cams of dissimular sizes they had to have the tiller measured and set by placing a straight edge or string on top of the axles and measured to it not the bow string.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Brokenrack said:


> Maybe something has changed but I was taught that because compound bows had eccentrics and cams of dissimular sizes they had to have the tiller measured and set by placing a straight edge or string on top of the axles and measured to it not the bow string.


That is true of bows with dissimilar size cams and single cam bows... However, this is not the case with hybrids..


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

Will tiller tuning help with bare shaft tuning? Are there any indications of what
to do to the tiller when bare shaft tuning? You know increase top or bottom limb bolts or decrease top or bottom limb bolts etc. This might not even help just wondering?


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

ttt


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