# 3d hunter category no more



## born2shoot3 (May 9, 2010)

I am not very happy that there is no more hunter category in 3d shoots at a competetive level.
If you are also unhappy about this I would urge you to email archery canada.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

most clubs run under 0aa classes usually.. archery Canada runs under world European rules.. only one tournament a year in Canada follows these rules so don`t worry unless going to nationals ..probably thousands of miles away...


----------



## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

The Hunter class is now a conditional class due to limited use at National events , if more people participated it could just as easily return,nothing stopping Provincial and local clubs from using it. There is no hunter division in WA


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

oaa still has it which most clubs run under in Ontario that simple


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Good to hear Ted. I mostly shoot Hunter now so didn't want to see it go.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

hunter class is one of the largest classes at all the shoots in Ontario.. I think there are even 2 hunter categories even ..if I remember at pand p we had 30 shooters ..in that class or more...even...


----------



## born2shoot3 (May 9, 2010)

I think it is one of the biggest classes in many areas. I hope they change it around.


----------



## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

The class is still there just not recognised as a full competitive class at National events due to very poor turnouts, it is still used at Provincial and local tournaments unless participation drops there as well. The process for reinstating a conditional division is on the AC website


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

good on you guys sometimes you have to tell the powers to be they have made a drastic mistake..and time for them to correct.. archery Canada as the name implies.. should stop trying to run parallel to Europe ...we have at most 10 or so shooters who go to the worlds ..are not subsidized ..pay their own way.. and the governing body here in Canada.. bends for that... ?????? they should be trying to get compounds in the Olympics...then money may come into the sport here in Canada...


----------



## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> good on you guys sometimes you have to tell the powers to be they have made a drastic mistake..and time for them to correct.. archery Canada as the name implies.. should stop trying to run parallel to Europe ...we have at most 10 or so shooters who go to the worlds ..are not subsidized ..pay their own way.. and the governing body here in Canada.. bends for that... ?????? they should be trying to get compounds in the Olympics...then money may come into the sport here in Canada...


do you realise that the hunter class has nothing to do with Europe? WA has no Hunter division, it is a North American class predominantly an IBO class, the issue is those who use this class at the Provincial or local level do not participate in National events enough to warrant keeping it hence being a conditional class, if Manitoba wants to host the hunter class great ,if they can get a bunch to come and participate then they maybe able to bring it back


----------



## kangosd (Aug 19, 2011)

Our club hosted manitoba in door provincials last spring an had 21 hunter class male and 9 hunter class women compared to 6 that shot in the open class and 13 in the Bhr class we r worried that if people are not comfortable with the extra ten yards for Bhr or dont want to buy all the extras for bho then I'm afraid we will lose shooters when we r trying to promote the sport. " i know the class names have changed but i used the old names" almost 1/3 of the shooters shot hunter class between men and women would hate to lose those people. I ll leave you folks with a question. Would u like to see a beginner class that once u become good enough that you are winning then you will be moved up in class?


----------



## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

kangosd said:


> Our club hosted manitoba in door provincials last spring an had 21 hunter class male and 9 hunter class women compared to 6 that shot in the open class and 13 in the Bhr class we r worried that if people are not comfortable with the extra ten yards for Bhr or dont want to buy all the extras for bho then I'm afraid we will lose shooters when we r trying to promote the sport. " i know the class names have changed but i used the old names" almost 1/3 of the shooters shot hunter class between men and women would hate to lose those people. I ll leave you folks with a question. Would u like to see a beginner class that once u become good enough that you are winning then you will be moved up in class?


If you or any of the other Provinces could get the Hunter class participants to shoot the National indoors in a couple weeks that would be your best way to get the class back in


----------



## born2shoot3 (May 9, 2010)

I would have no problem shooting the extra ten yards....I dont like the long stabs, side bars and glue in points. I personally like to keep it basic.lets try and keep this division alive. I was not going to go to nationals becasue there was no hunter division, but if there was i would reconsider.


----------



## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

My understanding was that the hunter class will still be there for national events it just will not be recognized for medals.


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

I think for the most part basing the classes on the number of shooters does not always work and plays into the regional bias. In Mb hunter is usually the largest class followed by BHR then BHO ( or whatever they want to call it now) in Ab it is seems to be the opposite with BHO bringing in the most shooters. In Sk all the classes seem to be close in numbers. I know of a extra 20 shooters that have said that if nats have a hunter class they are going ( If they do go that's another question) but at least they have the option of going and getting a medal

out here hunter class brings people out of the woodwork not so for bho.


----------



## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

It's a lot more complicated than some are talking about. Archery Canada is responsible for administering the sport of archery, in accordance with LTAD standards. A really basic breakdown of it is that their needs to be tiers availible for athlete participation, and pathways to move from learning the sport, shooting at Prov level, and moving to the National level. The Hunter categories are categorized within this model as entry/development level,(and the level of competition in them certainly warrants this). It makes no sense to award a National Championship for what has been designated as an entry level division. Those archers who are adamant that they should compete for a national championship can still compete in the new Fixed Pin category. People who "can't handle the extra ten yards" can shoot in a non competitive class, and aren't shooting for the title of national champion. 
While it could be argued that many divisions are watered down and less than truly National level...it's a start, and a recognition of the standards that Archery Canada must adhere to in order to adhere to the expectations of Sport Canada.


----------



## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

First of all LTAD for those of you that don't know stands for Long Term Athlete Development. I have been involved with LTAD models since its inception in a sport that I was and am still heavily involved in. It is a good model to follow if the sport allows it to be followed through its various levels of play and development.

I am also an archer and to say that the LTAD model is being used in archery I find a bit confusing. This is a sport that I can go and buy any equipment I want and shoot at the highest level of competition right out of the gate. Where is the development constraints? Also, to say that entry/development level divisions should not be able to compete for a National Championship is ludicrous. How would that affect all the other sports in this country. So an Atom aged hockey player, who is just starting out cannot play for a championship? I don't think that is the case. What about Volleyball Canada who holds National Championships for age groups from Under 12 right up to Adult? So you see where I have the problem here. There can still be a National Champion at a Hunter level. If it was that easy to win it then everyone would be in Hunter. It is not an entry level class but just another class that some decide to excel at due to reasons such as equipment limitations.

And what exactly does National Champion get you? A cool medal and the chance to pay for your own trip to worlds?


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

Xs24-7 said:


> It's a lot more complicated than some are talking about. Archery Canada is responsible for administering the sport of archery, in accordance with LTAD standards. A really basic breakdown of it is that their needs to be tiers availible for athlete participation, and pathways to move from learning the sport, shooting at Prov level, and moving to the National level. The Hunter categories are categorized within this model as entry/development level,(and the level of competition in them certainly warrants this). It makes no sense to award a National Championship for what has been designated as an entry level division. Those archers who are adamant that they should compete for a national championship can still compete in the new Fixed Pin category. People who "can't handle the extra ten yards" can shoot in a non competitive class, and aren't shooting for the title of national champion.
> While it could be argued that many divisions are watered down and less than truly National level...it's a start, and a recognition of the standards that Archery Canada must adhere to in order to adhere to the expectations of Sport Canada.



damn govt screwing things up again LOL


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

maybe I`m wrong here but some one is saying hunter class in arch cand is a starting stone.. wrong.. one of the largest classes and as I stated..some times the powers to be should get out of their ivory towers and ..get out and see what the masses say..and CORRECT their vision on things...


----------



## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

So your arguing that the average competitor in the Hunter class isn't typically new to the sport of tournament archery? That's simply not true. There are some that certainly sit in hunter class for years and are quite good...and if they want to compete for a national championship, they can move to Fixed pins and get their competition fix there.
This doesn't affect the local level, club level....only National Level events. Awarding medals in watered down fields diminishes the importance of our national championships and keeps people who should move up in categories like hunter Class, pushing new people out of the sport. The purpose of LTAD is to encourage pathways for people to move into and up through the sport. If competitors truly
Want to be a a canadian champion, they can shoot in a recognized class. If they don't, and having to shoot an extra 10 yards is enough to keep them home...then perhaps they shouldn't have the opportunity to hang a Canadian Championship medal on their necks.


----------



## ArcherMan (Feb 13, 2014)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> maybe I`m wrong here but some one is saying hunter class in arch cand is a starting stone.. wrong.. one of the largest classes and as I stated..some times the powers to be should get out of their ivory towers and ..get out and see what the masses say..and CORRECT their vision on things...


Maybe you should get out of your bubble Mr Special.?!. More is going on in the world out of the bubble other then at the Special shoot that doesn't have full OAA class..even though advertised.!?.

Teams in volleyball and hockey *do not* enter into a national championship straight off a hop.!?. They go to other local stuff first, then regional, then provincial, then nationals if good 
I am experienced in various sports from this country and another.!?. Athlete's in almost no sports go to national off a hop


----------



## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

Reed said:


> damn govt screwing things up again LOL


I'm with Reed on this one, down with the man. lol If you show up at any shoot with any kind of archery equipment you are a champion.


----------



## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

ArcherMan said:


> Maybe you should get out of your bubble Mr Special.?!. More is going on in the world out of the bubble other then at the Special shoot that doesn't have full OAA class..even though advertised.!?.
> 
> Teams in volleyball and hockey *do not* enter into a national championship straight off a hop.!?. They go to other local stuff first, then regional, then provincial, then nationals if good
> I am experienced in various sports from this country and another.!?. Athlete's in almost no sports go to national off a hop



You know, I had a nice retort all penned out and submitted and then figured Eff it. Don't need the aggravation of dealing with people that obviously know more than me Later


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> maybe I`m wrong here but some one is saying hunter class in arch cand is a starting stone.. wrong.. one of the largest classes and as I stated..some times the powers to be should get out of their ivory towers and ..get out and see what the masses say..and CORRECT their vision on things...


I agree with Ed on some of the points. Hunter is a entry class for many shooters. In Mb we have had several very good shooters move from hunter to the "competive" class's, but we have lots of people who stay in hunter just for the win. Same as when they dropped BHR from the target side of outdoor target nats awhile ago.( not that that effected many people ). I think the bigger problem/concern that Carberry has is when they applied for the nats they were under the impression that "all" the classes would be used and from a organiser standpoint hunter class can be a huge draw. THen boom in January the FCA come out and say's hunter class is dropped from nats (not sure of the timeline of the announcement) and that could have a larger impact on the business plan they setup for the shoot with local sponsors.

on the local side this could get a lot of the sandbaggers to move to a different class


----------



## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

They can still have Hunter class, they just cant award a National Championship for it. Those who still want to compete simply shoot in fixed pins. Theres no reason for it to cost a single participant... It wasnt too long ago the hunter class didnt exist...they simply shot MBR...then hunter class was added...and more people didnt show up, the same group was now just split in two.


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

ArcherMan said:


> Maybe you should get out of your bubble Mr Special.?!. More is going on in the world out of the bubble other then at the Special shoot that doesn't have full OAA class..even though advertised.!?.
> 
> Teams in volleyball and hockey *do not* enter into a national championship straight off a hop.!?. They go to other local stuff first, then regional, then provincial, then nationals if good
> I am experienced in various sports from this country and another.!?. Athlete's in almost no sports go to national off a hop


you can not equate team sports that have a specific league or qualifying process with archery. a better compare is with other sports that have a open championship that you don't need to qualify for.


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

Xs24-7 said:


> They can still have Hunter class, they just cant award a National Championship for it. Those who still want to compete simply shoot in fixed pins. Theres no reason for it to cost a single participant... It wasnt too long ago the hunter class didnt exist...they simply shot MBR...then hunter class was added...and more people didnt show up, the same group was now just split in two.


hunter guy's are scared of all the stabilizer's LOL I smell a huge run on stabilizer's LOL 

for the guys that shoot a lot then will generally still come I think, its more the local guys with this could effect ( if they come out and in Mb that is not always the case:sad

hell when i started it was just fingers or release when you shot 3d


----------



## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

its not much different in Ontario, we had one large class called BH unlimited and then changed the name and split it into 3 other classes then complained we have less shooters in each class, its frustrating watching the same mistakes from decades ago repeat themselves again and again. We have the BHO/BHR classes that don't resemble BH equipment but more of a FS/compound class which is probably why AC changed the names of them


----------



## ArcherMan (Feb 13, 2014)

Reed said:


> you can not equate team sports that have a specific league or qualifying process with archery. a better compare is with other sports that have a open championship that you don't need to qualify for.


These sports are not the best agreed.!?. I used them because that what ROCKIN J used per example


----------



## kangosd (Aug 19, 2011)

Reed is seeing it all clearly. The hunter class is needed as a starter class but it is hurting itself by having shooters in it for far too long. I know newbies to shooting 3d get frustrated when they are shooting against guys shooting 400 plus. I started back into archery three years ago and shot hunter class and i was one of those frustrated guys. One the other hand i quickly became one of those 400 plus shooters and realized it was time to move up. I bought a supra and moved into unlimited. What if in hunter class if a person has won the class maybe three times then they must move into the fixed pin class. This will promote your LTAD and actually make sense on how to develope shooters. I say keep the hunter class but make shooters move up when they achieve that goal. Right now there is no motivation to move. Reed u figure out who I am yet


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

kangosd said:


> Reed is seeing it all clearly. The hunter class is needed as a starter class but it is hurting itself by having shooters in it for far too long. I know newbies to shooting 3d get frustrated when they are shooting against guys shooting 400 plus. I started back into archery three years ago and shot hunter class and i was one of those frustrated guys. One the other hand i quickly became one of those 400 plus shooters and realized it was time to move up. I bought a supra and moved into unlimited. What if in hunter class if a person has won the class maybe three times then they must move into the fixed pin class. This will promote your LTAD and actually make sense on how to develope shooters. I say keep the hunter class but make shooters move up when they achieve that goal. Right now there is no motivation to move. Reed u figure out who I am yet


know what your last name is. are you blue or black?

there are a few problems with the idea of winning out of hunter on a national scale, but you could maybe implement it on a provincial scale, not everyone goes to nationals every year so winning 3 times could take years before you are punted to the bigs


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

wow this thread got twisted.. personal attacks by archerman etc etc.. did you fill in your real name in your bio or still hiding...key board man.. ok I`m done... this was a good post at the beginning..but like most it went side ways...thanks x-24 and rockin johny for some back ground info.. pand p archery will have a hunter class at their tournament as well as it generates 30 or more entry fees to be donated to the hospital.... thanks guys


----------



## Lionel (Jul 16, 2002)

I have been to the IBO worlds. Over 2000 shooters. Lots of classes.
I went to shoot the ASA in Gainsville Florida. Again lots of shooters and even more classes.
How can these organizations host all these people in all the classes and not have the problem we have?
I had a great time in a La-de-da class and they did not seem to mind me being there.
Garry


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

Lionel said:


> I have been to the IBO worlds. Over 2000 shooters. Lots of classes.
> I went to shoot the ASA in Gainsville Florida. Again lots of shooters and even more classes.
> How can these organizations host all these people in all the classes and not have the problem we have?
> I had a great time in a La-de-da class and they did not seem to mind me being there.
> Garry


they can have all the class's since the shooters themselves are the main funding for the ASA/IBO.( membership driven funding) Since FCA gets its money from the Sport can/govt funding they have to toe the line in regards to LTAD's and how their athletes fit into those class's 

and lets face it we don't have the number of shooters that they have down there


----------



## Lionel (Jul 16, 2002)

Reed,
The FCA provides a few medals. I am not sure about paying for the judges.
I understand that there is travel funding for qualifying shooters through the Provincial and National organizations. I am thankful for what I have received in the past.
Most of the shooters at Nationals are not funded.
I like the idea that the hosting clubs can put on a shoot and include the Canadian Championships as part of the weekend. I think that we could have shoots within shoots. Get as many people involved as possible. 
The US organizations can organize pro, semi-pro and misc classes all on the same weekend. 
We could even have a money class. 

I understand that some of what I say may not work. I just feel that FCA members should have a say. I am an FCA member and have said my piece.

See you in the Carberry sandhills.


----------



## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

You guys all need to do a history check on my threads on this forum. Until the circus tent ringmasters running and influencing the archery governing bodies in Canada come to realize that separating shooters by the equipment they shoot with no regard to experience is the worst possible system, we will all be divided and our sport will continue to spiral downward. 

I AGAIN direct your attention to the most successful 3d system running. ASA. They run minimal class division by equipment and everything has to do with your TRACKED experience. They are setting attendance records with each new tournament while we up here remain thick skulled and ignorant to what actually works. Change all the class names? That oughta fix things eh?....GONG!

AND since I'm in the mood, archerman consider yourself called out cowboy, there's been enough of your keyboard rodeo antics


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

Topper1018 said:


> You guys all need to do a history check on my threads on this forum. Until the circus tent ringmasters running and influencing the archery governing bodies in Canada come to realize that separating shooters by the equipment they shoot with no regard to experience is the worst possible system, we will all be divided and our sport will continue to spiral downward.
> 
> I AGAIN direct your attention to the most successful 3d system running. ASA. They run minimal class division by equipment and everything has to do with your TRACKED experience. They are setting attendance records with each new tournament while we up here remain thick skulled and ignorant to what actually works. Change all the class names? That oughta fix things eh?....GONG!
> 
> AND since I'm in the mood, archerman consider yourself called out cowboy, there's been enough of your keyboard rodeo antics



and how would you work this into our situation? ASA still has something like 20 different classes don't they. In "Canada" we don't have a turny circuit like ASA has nor do we have the number of shooters 

or are you saying that we should have a group 1-6 and as your score improves you move up the ranks with no concern as to what "class" you shoot


----------



## born2shoot3 (May 9, 2010)

again many might think hunter division is an entry level and on some cases it is but there are still many off us that like to compete with our "hunting" type rigs. I would say the hunter class is the majority of shooters in many provinces andd shoot very well and can compete in fixed pin, but we like to keep it simple. lets promote archery not limit it.


----------



## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

As well ASA is a company, they can at will make changes to fit its needs, a governing body just doesn't have that luxury, change is slow


----------



## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Reed said:


> and how would you work this into our situation? ASA still has something like 20 different classes don't they. In "Canada" we don't have a turny circuit like ASA has nor do we have the number of shooters
> 
> or are you saying that we should have a group 1-6 and as your score improves you move up the ranks with no concern as to what "class" you shoot


As a whole the Asa has alot of classes but only 6 actual divisions. I have a long previous thread about how classes need be divided only by max distance and tracked experience. When your a member of any organization that you PAY to be a member of, those membership fees ought to go to improving and maintaining progress in development. Like tracking shooters experience so they participate and compete at the appropriate level for their skill. If the rest of the country is anything like my province no one really knows where all the membership money goes aside from not into 3d.


----------



## giltyone (Nov 9, 2009)

Hunter is still there. Just not for championships. Local clubs have them and can award rankings in that category. It's designed to be developmental and for mostly non-competitive shooters and recreational shooters. Too many people stay shooting in that category far too long and should be encouraged to move up into Compound Fixed Pins or Compound Unlimited where the real competition lies.

As far as I know - it was done this way in order to encourage the growth in the higher competitive classes. Normally Hunter class was always used for introductory shooters and people still developing their skills.


----------

