# bamboo cores



## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

I see so many listings of bows that promote the numbers of laminations of bamboo in the limbs of the bow. Why is this advantageous? If there is a benefit to using bamboo rather than yew or walnut or birch or maple.....is it even noticeable?

Doug


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I would have you call a couple of bow makes and ask them. I know Mike Fedora likes bamboo on his bows. Fedora builds one of my favorite bows.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

I think the difference is subtle, but like Bill said many bowyers prefer bamboo. Bamboo laminations are standard in my Blacktails, but whether i would notice the difference between 'boo and other traditional laminations...:dontknow:


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Bamboo makes a great material

My preference in a wood core limb


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## dragonheart II (Aug 20, 2010)

Smoother draw, light limb lamination.


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## Norseman (Jan 30, 2014)

Bamboo is quite homogeneous which is a desirable quality in bow materials. It's also extremely flexible and near indestructible. In many ways it's like the fibreglass of woods (or grass to be correct).


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## ladOR (Oct 24, 2012)

bamboo - I will say it. Is the standard for consistent power, smooth draw, no variation between laminations. Why do you think Howard Hill one of the kings of bow makers made his bows from Bamboo and Glass. The other consistent lamination. Ok jump on me non believers. But, you want to make a bow in the garage. Get some bamboo and glass and you will make a usable bow if you follow the basic bow making rules.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Yes, bamboo is an excellent material for many things, but in that regard, one of mother nature's cruel jokes - she made it hollow and full of nodes.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

Some bowyers charge as much as $160 extra for laminations of bamboo as opposed to woods like walnut or yew. Do you really think that bamboo cores make that much of a difference?? Ok....bamboo is a good material and maybe the best.....but to raise the cost of the bow by more than 30% good?

What are your thoughts because I am about to order a bow and having a hard time convincing myself to pay the difference.

Doug


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Doug, if you check the laminate supplies, bamboo lams are ~50% higher than some of the basics woods, if you buy production lams. Making your own lams (which one might do if you are production-cost minded, like a bowyer in the business) is a much less expensive way to make your bows but a lot of work and waste with bamboo. The price difference comes out of this, no doubt.

That being said, I would look at it like foam limbs. There's some subtle differences that matter differently to some folks and not at all to others. That could be in a couple of fps faster and maybe a bit smoother in places of the draw, but overall, the cost to get there may not be totally justified by your standards, but then, depending on your preferences and utility of the dollar factor, it might.


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## ablain (Jun 19, 2012)

All my bows have maple cores but from what I understand the bamboo will be a little faster and less vibration. I can not back this up yet but that's what I have heard. I have also heard that red elm is comparable to bamboo with hand shock. Again haven't had a chance to omplete a comparison of my own but that's what I have heard.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Bamboo is light and very flexible, however, it's not the end all to beat all. The nodes make it no more durable than wood that's properly cared for, and that's the kicker: bamboo is much more expensive to buy or to process. Is it faster? Not really. The best boos (Moso and Tonkin cane) are much more flexible and resilient than other species, but for best results also needed hardened with heat. Compared to elm, walnut, maple, or even yew where you just cut a block into laminations, the boo can only come from a very small portion of the bamboo. While nodes are the weak point, action boo makes up for that weakness, and is still lighter than action wood. However, this is also extremely expensive to make, being made of so many tiny laminations.

Are bamboo limbs faster? Sometimes. It depends on the design. The fastest bows are designed well, where materials play just a small part of the puzzle. If you take a bow like a Howard Hill model, where the limbs are thick and heavy, and put something like hickory or Osage, you're naturally going to increase limb mass quite a bit. In shorter, more preloaded limbs, it's not as big a difference. Some of the fastest bows were built with wood cores (Walk the Talk is a great comparison). However, if you're buying a really nice bow with beautifully figured wood and laminations in the riser, do you not want to take EVERY step to make the bow nice and fancy? Likewise, if everyone is talking boo, why wouldn't a builder cater to that demand (if they can afford it... I can't:lol? 

Is bamboo better? Depends on what you're looking for in a bow. It ups the cost, and may change the "feel" somewhat, but in terms of performance you're looking at very little to gain in your average design.


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## Wayko (Dec 22, 2011)

I have a recurve & a longbow with bamboo core limbs. Do I think there nicer then my other non-bamboo bows? I think so, they seem lighter in the hand to me, to me they look better, and to me they seem to throw heavier arrows faster then my non-bamboo bows. 

But I paid more for them, then I did for the non-bamboo bows, (so I better like them more, lol). Now on the recurve I have not shot the same model with a different wood core, but on the longbow I was able to, they were the same model, same weight, same length, the only thing that was different was the limb core wood, & I preferred the bamboo core limbs alittle bit more.

I guess I currently feel when I buy more bows, if bamboo is offered I'll get it, if it is not offered, it will not stop me from buying a bow that I want, I don't feel the difference was that much, but I did feel there is a difference to me. Plus they look nice with my split bamboo flyrods, LOL.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

Good comments......from this reading and others I have come to the conclusion that bamboo may be lighter in weight, prettier to look at and may have a slightly different feel than some woods when used in the core of limbs. 

I am not convinced that it naturally enhances the performance of any stickbow although it is possible that it could given the proper application of an experienced bowyer who is willing to endure the additional costs. 

I am going to save my money and go with maple cores in the limbs. Strong, dependable and resistant to climate changes. But if I were choosing a longer limbed Hill style bow I may have decided otherwise. 

Doug


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

According to Sid at Border on a modern recurve it is not measurably different from maple. Not in DFC or speed.
Perhaps in an older inefficient design like a Hill it would reduce the mass enough to make a difference.

-Grant


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## MotherLode (Dec 9, 2005)

All of my bows have bamboo other than one , which has Walnut. The walnut isn't quite as smooth but is fast. I have shot foam also. This doesn't mean anything though because all are different bows and Bowyers. Can't compare . To me the most important aspect is design and shoot ability, if the bowyer says good it's good. It is important to them that you are happy , otherwise they won't last long.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

Bamboo is a grass not a wood and therefore not as subjective to humidity and heat like some of the woods such as maple...


Here's my thinking:

With everything I spend on trying to win a bowl,buckle,trophy or check...in my mind Bamboo is the best the cost difference between bamboo or maple is nothing compared to $1000 trip to Louisville or Vegas....archy is such a mental game that if Bamboo gives me peace of mind then it's worth whatever they charge.

And for me it is.


Dewayne


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## Hank (Jul 5, 2003)

I build my own longbows and use vertical grain bamboo flooring for the lams. Got the bamboo @ $50 a case, 24 boards per case, 1 bow per board (3 pairs of lams per board) That works out to a little over $2 per bow for bamboo lams  It would be close to $100 for one bow getting them through a well known trad supplier. I like bamboo cores for the price, consistency and performance.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

vabowdog said:


> Bamboo is a grass not a wood and therefore not as subjective to humidity and heat like some of the woods such as maple...
> Dewayne


Now that is not something I've thought much about, but makes sense. Whenever I hear about folks talking about 'consistency' in boo, it's always more about uniformity rather than consistency in terms of the bow's performance day to day. It makes sense though. The nature of the boo and the oil content would make it less susceptible than wood. If it is more consistent it would be like high performance strings over dacron, less likely to lose that perfect tune, which would help performance when hunting. Hmm...


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

When into Pro/Am sailboarding one of my sponsors was a board company named "Wood Winds" They were local to me in Oakland and had a patent on a Epoxy "wood" vacuum bag construction of some sort. I was interested in vacuum bagging. Specificly vacuum bagging carbon fiber, kevlar, and...yes...one layer of "wood". Our test panels showed a large advantage to use of bamboo. The whole project melted down...after much work...for silly reasons I will not bore you with. My custom Epoxy, Carbon fiber, Kevlar (stress patches) and bamboo (deck patch/core) board creation was just not meant to be.

Bamboo when used properly has an advantage.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

vabowdog said:


> Bamboo is a grass not a wood and therefore not as subjective to humidity and heat like some of the woods such as maple...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



mmm...

I find the stability of a limb with temperature a interesting topic.
the body responds differently in different temps. air density changes, and on hot days, black surfaces, such as tar mac paths create updrafts.
yet the bows performance is down to the limbs core.
I don't think its that.
I think there is a million other reasons for bow performance change as highlighted above.

what I do find interesting is that Glass fiber expands with heat.
Resins that surround the Glass to make the laminate expand with heat.

Carbon is quite unique in that is shrinks with heat.
but the resin its in, expands with heat.

Glass as in bow limbs is deemed a material that expands, while carbon is deemed neutral.

yet its the core that gets the blame. This core feature seemed to be a big deal when syntactic foam became a big deal. but yet those limbs still used glass as the laminate of choice with a little carbon in them.

the less glass in your limb, and the more carbon, the less it should change...

that said, I would say this since Borders limbs have no glass in them. but you can google this expansion problem in composits for yourself. 

so maybe its nothing to do with the core???


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

The variations of me as i get hot and tired seem to swamp anything my bow does, assuming the brace height isn't creeping. Even then, it can creep more than I'd like to admit and still shoots well enough that I don't notice.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

Sid, that's why I shoot SKY limbs with Bamboo cores and Double carbon....they seem to a great limb, however I will be the first to admit I cant tell the difference in a $600 set compared to a $200 set...makes you wonder how good of a set of limbs do you need if youre only shooting 20 yards...Im quite sure this will get some comments.


Dewayne


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## Dave V (Aug 13, 2008)

FYI, Dan Toelke of Montana Bows uses Bamboo in his limbs. No extra charge.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

vabowdog said:


> Sid, that's why I shoot SKY limbs with Bamboo cores and Double carbon....they seem to a great limb, however I will be the first to admit I cant tell the difference in a $600 set compared to a $200 set...makes you wonder how good of a set of limbs do you need if youre only shooting 20 yards...Im quite sure this will get some comments.
> 
> 
> Dewayne


put your limbs on a kitchen scale.
if they are over 170 grams in mass, then id say they are glass limbs with carbon.
if they are under 170 grams (for long limbs over 45lbs) then they are mostly carbon.
if they are under 160 grams then massively carbon.
for a single limb.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

I do know that I traded for an all bamboo longbow made by Bows of Wood with a guy in Colorado and he told me to allow the bamboo to adjust to the humidity of Virginia for a couple of days before shooting. This is a bamboo core with bamboo lams on belly and face. I ignored his suggestion and after drawing the bow a couple of times began to shoot arrows. Cracked the face of the bamboo lam on the third shot.

This one experience leaves me to believe that bamboo is not so tolerant of temperature and humidity changes. But one experience is not really enough to come to concrete conclusions.

Doug


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Hmmm. I wonder if it's tempered bamboo that shows the resistence to moisture? I feel the need to start experimenting...


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

This was a bow made by a bowyer named Vinson Minor who gave up the Bows Of Wood business but was a high dollar bow in it's time.


Beautiful bow but now I am just trying to remove a section of bamboo in hopes of replacing with another section but removing the existing section is tough. What type of glue is used to connect the lams to the core? I would like to keep this bow as an ornament if I can repair it.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

kegan said:


> Hmmm. I wonder if it's tempered bamboo that shows the resistence to moisture? I feel the need to start experimenting...


On dry bamboo planks, go real easy on the heat. It doesn't take much to turn from flexible fiber to glass-like fibers on the hard outer shell. I got a whole batch of planks that are unusable in that regard. A little more golden is probably OK, a little dark and it will crack and pop-up fiber pieces. The heat doesn't seem to soak well, so the outer gets much hot before the heat gets deeper. Some folks heat temper by burning the pith side off, inside out.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Doug, nice bow, and that is an easy fix. I have had to replace the bamboo backings before and just take the whole thing off. Use a good hand-plane, then flat-toothed wood file, all the while, be conscious to not remove or damage any core wood (belly wood). Glue a new piece of bamboo lam on with TitebondIII, rough cut the bow shape, then file/sand the sides to flush. Last, file and sand the edges of the bamboo lam rounded down to the core (kinda trap the face about 1/8" in). If you don't feel you are capable, don't throw-out that bow and send to me. I will fix it for you on the cheap.

BTW, don't blame yourself. Lack of humidity and temperature settling didn't cause that failure. It, the failure, was in the bamboo already.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Doug, didn't realize it wasn't fiberglass laminated. 

Sanford, I just ordered some bamboo flooring. It's aparently heated when they laminate it to make it denser and stronger, so I won't mess with heating it any (beyond the glue up). We'll see how it works!


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

Sids was an interesting post. It makes sense one should consider all materials in combination as a unit rather than singling out one lam because of its individual properties- especially when you are talking about a working unit as is a bow limb.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Sanford,

Could you explain this a little more,

"...(kinda trap the face about 1/8" in)."

No idea what trap means in this context.

Please...thanx.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

wseward said:


> Sanford,
> 
> Could you explain this a little more,
> 
> ...


If you leave the face side edges of the bamboo at right-angle, IOW, squared off, one, it looks unsightly, but two, it is prone to popping fibers along the sharp crown. What I do is measure in 1/8" all along the face, then, file from that line at an angle to the bottom edge (where the glue-line meets the belly wood). That just tapers the edge and rounds over the edge of the face material.

If it were a flat-limbed bow, square profile, we would call that trapping - making the square profile a trapezoid shape. That's the analogy, but most wood bows are built semi-rounded (egg) profile.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Cool...Thanx again.


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## Hank (Jul 5, 2003)

Update... went to Lumber Liquidators to get some exotic looking wood for a fancy counter top in a pantry. I had checked their website to see if they still carried vertical grain bamboo, they didn't show it on their site. Asked if they had any cases left at the local store, they had 2 and sold them both to us for $60. Then they found one more and threw that in for free. This batch will bring the bamboo limb cores in my bows down to less than $1 per bow... isn't that sickening?


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