# "Real" Longbows.....



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Generally speaking....I'm fine with the over simplistic view of a longbow being a bow where the string doesn't touch the limbs...but I also understand how there can also be subcategories of longbows based on the limb's shape....similar to how there is a subcategory for recurves (static recurve).

As far as competition goes....I'm a little on the fence because I don't have as much experience shooting longbows as I do recurves.

Based on my limited experience...I'm not convinced if one longbow is generally that much more accurate or easier to shoot. The one thing I do know...is that I don't like shooting Hill style longbows due to the feeling after the shot. No matter how well they are made...they do have more aftershock compared to my recurves. That aftershock for me translates into not enjoying the shooting experience as much....which I suppose can translate into harder to master. I know Howard Hill and many other are able to be very accurate with them but I also see many of the top archery scores being placed by what I would call hybrid longbows. I just don't know if it's because those bows are more accurate and easier to shoot or are just more enjoyable to shoot.

Ray :shade:


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

While at a sporting goods shop in Sandpoint, ID - I noticed on the wall some circular wood pieces. Upon further inspection, they were bows that were used by the NezPierce Tribe. These were way to old to try to string up, but I'd have to conculude that the term Traditional should fit with a 100 year old bow made by Native Americans. I would love to have seen one strung but can only imagine that a bow unstrung that makes a complete circle would have some 'deflex' when strung.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

This is a funny thing for me to argue. I can't really say I think hybrids and bows cut close to center are too easy to shoot and thus not longbows. In fact I shoot Howard Hill bows with their thick risers and little centercut and all that handshock (and they do have hand shock) better than any other kind of bow and that includes ILF recurves and every other style of bow.

For me the basic Hill bow really is the easiest bow to be accurate with, especially in the upper weight ranges where most shooters never get to. A heavy longbow is almost impossible to pluck off target above 70 pounds or so. All that weight keeps everything inline at the launch moment. This is the only reason I shoot 80 pounds. Once you get strong enough the bow seems to shoot itself. I know that sounds nuts but it's true.

I can't shoot the 300 round above 220 with any recurve. I can easily do it with a heavy longbow. My best effort ever was 272 with an 80# bow in competition with carbon arrows. I average 244. For years I shot recurves as a young man and never got above 220 average. Only after I discovered how easy it was to shoot heavy longbows of the Hill style did my average go up. Hybrids are like recurves to me - way too finnicky, too tricky. One little twitch and the arrow takes off sideways. Not so the with straight limbed longbow. You need lots of poundage to get decent speed using this design but when you finally are able to shoot heavy poundage discover it's almost like cheating so easy to hit with is a "real" longbow of good weight.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Any bow without string-limb contact beyond the nocks falls into the "longbow" category. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a "real longbow". It's a broad, over-generalized category that no longer really applies, and as a matter of fact never really did. A Hill style American longbow isn't a REAL longbow to an English archer who grew up with ELB's, and until the modern recurve really became popular that argument was still going strong (actually it still is today...) 

You can tell a recurve is a recurve by one quick look at the tips. "Longbows" are not so easily defined, and as far as I'm concerned, the term can be bandied about as willy nilly as people like because it doesn't really fit anything anyway. Ft. Jefferson's definition may come across as too specific and over zealous but it's no worse than trying to say a 56" super curvy bow is a "longbow" (I know that sounds disrespectful, but I have nothing but respect for you, Ft. Jefferson, and anyone else who can shoot such high scores with such a heavy bow).

The truth is bows are more often than not over-categorized. For competition that's one thing, but for less formal or personal categories it's just a matter of what you like, not what it _is_. I'm working on a 56" sinew backed hickory bow to test some thoughts on hunting bows. It'll be straight limbed with a little reflex (if I don't lose it all in tillering) with no string-limb contact. It's certainly not a recurve but there aren't too many defintions under the traditional big-top left to call it...?

When talking with someone we need some sort of term that needs conotations closest to what we're refering to to help people get the idea. More often than not... longbow fits.


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## Bebe (Mar 18, 2006)

Man o live I'm glad you posted that LBR and I thank Ft. Jeff for posting what a "real longbow" is "for him". I am tickled that I have a stable full of "real longbows" and I'd have to agree that they are a hoot to shoot. I also have a collection of "unreal longbows" too.

I grabbed 6 of my HH type and HH longbows and headed off to our local range and I was surprised that there were 2 out of the 6 longbows that shot significantly better than the others. One was a HH Redman and the other was a HH Tembo, the Tembo is interesting because it has green glass, and the handle section is different than what I've seen come out of Craig's shop. I wonder if it was from the era when HH's were farmed out to a few reputable bowyers in the USA.

Another poster already said it but I'll reiterate, when I was in the UK they were very clear that a "real longbow" was all wood, no fiberglass flatbows allowed. They'd look at Ft. Jeff's definition and think it a bit too liberal. Not sure where I am going with this but I do enjoy the dialogue and I've been embroiled and deep into the definitions through the years.



LBR said:


> Ready? A real longbow can be of any material but it must have straight limbs at rest. A little setback is fine along with some string follow. But no reflex/deflex.
> 
> A real longbow is never shorter than 66". Longer is better.
> 
> ...


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

kegan, make no mistake, I most definately am a zealot. LOL

I have not tolerance for hybrids. I can't stand recurves. 

But you seem like a good kid and actually make your own bows. This I applaud. It puts you way ahead of most of us.

Fort Zealot


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> I can't stand recurves.



Really? You seem passionate about that. Why can't you stand recurves?

Ray :shade:


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

"A real longbow pulls at least 50 pounds for men."

So my Hill style bow for old men at 42# is not a "REAL" longbow? How about the 34# I shoot off my knuckle???? Guess that isn't either?


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

rsarns said:


> "A real longbow pulls at least 50 pounds for men."
> 
> So my Hill style bow for old men at 42# is not a "REAL" longbow? How about the 34# I shoot off my knuckle???? Guess that isn't either?


Nope. Not a real bow. Sorry.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Too darn much technology in those dang recurves........I need all the help I can get so curves are just fine with me. I sure would like to try a few longbows, just do not want to spend the $ just to try them. I do think a R/D with a semi recurve grip would be best for me - I have tried a Hill style bow for a few shots and it was not for me. Pretty cool that we have all the choices we do.


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## whitewolf1 (Jun 28, 2006)

Anyone care to venture a guess at what to call this thing?


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

whitewolf1 said:


> Anyone care to venture a guess at what to call this thing?[/IMG]


A dead deer? 

A semi-recurve? 

Ray :shade:


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

BLACK WOLF said:


> Really? You seem passionate about that. Why can't you stand recurves?
> 
> Ray :shade:


Because I cannot shoot them well. I love the nice lines but lack the kind of calm nervous system required to hold such delicate things and make perfect releases. I tend to get the "yips" like a nervous golfer. I really need to be pulling a solid bit of weight to keep my upper frame in high tension and then to keep my release hand moving straight back upon release. You can't pluck or do anything bad with 80 pounds on your fingers. Once underway the strings rips forward and is virtually on auto-pilot. Nothing the archer can do with his hand will bother it. It's gone too fast and with so much force. All your fingers get cleared out instantly. 

This is the secret to the heavy longbow. Heavy recurves over 70 pounds do benefit from this aspect also but still remain too squirrely for me to shoot. I don't really know why recurves are touchier but for me they most certainly are. The average 55 pound recurve I cannot shoot to any worthwhile degree. So I hate them for any purpose except as examples of art. Many are very pretty.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

whitewolf1 said:


> Anyone care to venture a guess at what to call this thing?


An abortion. Nice deer, however.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Looks like a dead deer and a flatbow to me. It would be put in the longbow class at most tournaments, but I think calling it a longbow is a bit of a stretch.

Chad


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## Bebe (Mar 18, 2006)

Dead doe with a semi recurve reminds me of a Miegs Duoflex. It almost looks like the string is touching the limbs off the groove. Making meat what more could an archer want?


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## whitewolf1 (Jun 28, 2006)

Bebe said:


> Dead doe with a semi recurve reminds me of a Miegs Duoflex. It almost looks like the string is touching the limbs off the groove. Making meat what more could an archer want?


String touches for maybe a half inch at 6.5" brace pictured. At 7" it doesnt touch at all. Never seen a Miegs, will look for pics.


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## Bebe (Mar 18, 2006)

Dang it spelled Tim's last name wrong, sorry Tim Meigs. Tim has been around forever and is a mainstay when discussing bowyers in the Western States and in the USA for that matter.


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## Kurt Blanken (Apr 12, 2011)

Jefferson, I would be more inclined to put your definition of longbow in a category like 'Great Bow', and leave longbow as a much larger umbrella descriptive term.

For those of you rocking the <60" straight bows, perhaps the term 'Short Bow' could apply? There are more descriptors for bows in the traditional category than simply Recurve or Longbow.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Kurt Blanken said:


> Jefferson, I would be more inclined to put your definition of longbow in a category like 'Great Bow', and leave longbow as a much larger umbrella descriptive term.
> 
> For those of you rocking the <60" straight bows, perhaps the term 'Short Bow' could apply? There are more descriptors for bows in the traditional category than simply Recurve or Longbow.


Kurt, I've always called anything under 66" a flatbow. In my mind you have the English Longbow, the American Longbow, the flatbow, and those dreadful hybrids of all lengths. Many forms of fun if you don't like the American Longbow or it's English sire.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Kurt Blanken said:


> Jefferson, I would be more inclined to put your definition of longbow in a category like 'Great Bow', and leave longbow as a much larger umbrella descriptive term.
> 
> For those of you rocking the <60" straight bows, perhaps the term 'Short Bow' could apply? There are more descriptors for bows in the traditional category than simply Recurve or Longbow.


I like it alot! 

Ray :shade:


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## elk country rp (Sep 5, 2005)

whitewolf1 said:


> Anyone care to venture a guess at what to call this thing?


dinner.



heheh, i love this thread.

a "real" longbow-

as tall as you are- but at least 66" (no offense to you short guys)

wood- these fiss abominations are all flatbows (and recurves).

not much more than 3" of reflex- you can get more than that naturally from most woods by just reducing the stave to near finished dimensions before you season it, so there's a bit of acceptable range to me.

the whole bow has to work- it's ok if the handle _just barely_ bends. having 12" of nonworking riser/handle is a deal breaker for me (it's just fine in a flatbow)

very little cutout for the arrow pass- less than 1/4"

no high wristed compound-looking grips! (makes me wanna hurl, too!) a simple wrap is just fine, and a little shape is ok. 

one piece- takedowns are takedowns.

the draw weight..... i'm conflicted. i respect the brits & their whole 100# deal, but even a 60# longbow will knock the tar out of most critters with a respectable arrow. i guess it just has to be able to send a "heavy bone threshold" (650gr or so, right?) arrow over 175yds.

:darkbeer:


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## Bebe (Mar 18, 2006)

Bebe said:


> in the UK they were very clear that a "real longbow" was all wood, no fiberglass flatbows allowed.





elk country rp said:


> heheh, i love this thread.
> 
> a "real" longbow-
> 
> ...


Now we're talking, thank you elk country  if you men and women want to discuss a real longbow step up and leave yer' fiberglass at the door. A real longbow is all wood. Ft. Jefferson you've got to concede that point if you're talking "real", come on now...


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Nope. Not a real bow. Sorry.


I'm sure you are right. But this Mongol hoard behind me would like to have a 'talk' with you. :eek2:


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

WOW... so MR. Elitist... my 60 year old longbow with no shelf is "not a real" longbow according to your expertise.... just because it only pulls 32# ... by the way it is 68" long. Guess its good that I really don't give a Sh$t of your opinion. :grin: To each their own... I also own some reflex/deflex longbows (Hybrids) that I have a hard time considering them a longbow.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

When I lived in UK we had a big argument between the R/D Longbows and Hill style shooters, the R/D Longbows were to IFAA rules meaning 'D' shaped when strung but the Hill style shooters just wern't having it, so they forced a rule change making only straight limbed (when unstring) bows, this rule lasted nearly 1 year till the Nationals came around and somebody challenged this rule at the Nationals and asked for every Longbow to be inspected, nobody could find a perfectly straight Longbow (most of the hill Bows had slight forward set), so that rule was thrown out in next AGM. 

Now you just get some Hill style shooter looking down their nose at you and say *"Thats not a real Longbow"* or *"Your Gapping thats not how you shoot Longbow"*, I was also told I wouldn't win any tourneys if I shot a REAL Longbow, the following year I shot a 60# Hill style bow just to prove a point and won the nationals with it, I figured after a while nothing I do would please these moaners so just did my own thing and ignored them.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

rsarns said:


> WOW... so MR. Elitist... my 60 year old longbow with no shelf is "not a real" longbow according to your expertise.... just because it only pulls 32# ... by the way it is 68" long. Guess its good that I really don't give a Sh$t of your opinion. :grin: To each their own... I also own some reflex/deflex longbows (Hybrids) that I have a hard time considering them a longbow.


Okay, I can be reasonable. It's a real ladies longbow. Young, skinny, little girl's longbow for Brownies going for an archery badge. Best I can do.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

steve morley said:


> When I lived in UK we had a big argument between the R/D Longbows and Hill style shooters, the R/D Longbows were to IFAA rules meaning 'D' shaped when strung but the Hill style shooters just wern't having it, so they forced a rule change making only straight limbed (when unstring) bows, this rule lasted nearly 1 year till the Nationals came around and somebody challenged this rule at the Nationals and asked for every Longbow to be inspected, nobody could find a perfectly straight Longbow (most of the hill Bows had slight forward set), so that rule was thrown out in next AGM.
> 
> Now you just get some Hill style shooter looking down their nose at you and say *"Thats not a real Longbow"* or *"Your Gapping thats not how you shoot Longbow"*, I was also told I wouldn't win any tourneys if I shot a REAL Longbow, the following year I shot a 60# Hill style bow just to prove a point and won the nationals with it, I figured after a while nothing I do would please these moaners so just did my own thing and ignored them.


Steve, you won with a "real" bow. For one day in the sun you were a complete and proper man. Why sully such standing by going back to the hideous hybrid or, god forbid, the three piece hidden recurve some call a longbow? Now if we could only get you to stop shooting 3-under and stick with split finger, we'd all sleep better at night. LOL

As for gap vs. instinctive? Everyone shoots gap past a certain yardage. Some just don't know it or they don't hit anything.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Steve, you won with a "real" bow. For one day in the sun you were a complete and proper man. Why sully such standing by going back to the hideous hybrid or, god forbid, the three piece hidden recurve some call a longbow? Now if we could only get you to stop shooting 3-under and stick with split finger, we'd all sleep better at night. LOL


Two reasons, the first the Hill style Bows were causing elbow pain and second I was shooting IFAA international and wanted the best Bow for the Job, that for me is a R/D Longbow. 

Now I'm getting older I even have problems with the R/D Longbows these days, so I tend to shoot an ILF Recurve through the cold winter months. I only shoot 3 under with my Recurve, Longbow rules only allow Split finger except when I shot Fita 3D worlds they allow 3 under but I stuck with Split as I saw no point in messing with what already worked for me at the time.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Okay, I can be reasonable. It's a real ladies longbow. Young, skinny, little girl's longbow for Brownies going for an archery badge. Best I can do.


Ahhhh c'mon....this is even more reasonable. We all know that 'real' men who use 'real' longbows are just over-compensating and trying to make up for their own short comings  

Ray :shade:


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## whitewolf1 (Jun 28, 2006)

BLACK WOLF said:


> Ahhhh c'mon....this is even more reasonable. We all know that 'real' men who use 'real' longbows are just over-compensating and trying to make up for their own short comings
> 
> Ray :shade:


Weren't no reason to go talkin about his, uummm, draw length...


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Hmm real longbow huh ?

how about this older Great Northern Critter Gitter, she's not very long at 62" but she's all power and grace.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

A critter gitter of proper length is indeed a longbow. What you have there is a flatbow. (62"???)

But at least you have a manly draw weight on that thing. 

As for me compensating? Maybe, but if you are interested in my junk please PM me. We'll work out a date without embarrassing anyone needlessly. I'm a pretty free-thinking guy outside of what constitutes a real bow. LOL


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

My younger brother outweighs me by 70# and could probaly drop the 318 from his truck on me without breaking a sweat. I have lots to compensate for:lol:

So let's see if we have a new working definition of "Real Man's Longbow"

-Man's height, at least 66" (is that between the nocks or overall?)
-Capable of shooting a 650 gr. arrow at least 175 yards, which is about 165 fps(I think); no less than 60# if unable to record distance or speed
-Made of wood; no fiberglass, or sinew/horn
-No stiff handle beyond the very center of the handle
-No curves in multiple directions
-Can't be pink, purple, or violet (I'm assuming burgundy is alright though)
-No more than 1/4" cut in for the arrow pass, where the arrow is no closer than 1/4" to centershot

It looks like we're back to the old English definition... almost. I think the Brits would approve


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

kegan said:


> My younger brother outweighs me by 70# and could probaly drop the 318 from his truck on me without breaking a sweat. I have lots to compensate for:lol:
> 
> So let's see if we have a new working definition of "Real Man's Longbow"
> 
> ...


Let's see, kegan:

No man has control of his own body height. But he can control his bow. It's 66" between the nocks or you have something other than a longbow because it ain't "long" enough.

I place no restrictions on arrows. Arrows are not bows and should not be confused with bows. lol I do require at leat 50# of pull at your draw length. No bows marked 50 @ 28 with the shooter pulling 26 inches. This makes you the shooter of a 46# ladies model.

I'm really a liberal guy. You can use any material you wish for your bow.

Agree with your handle/stiffness comment. 

I love curves in all directions with women. Not so much my bows. Only backset or string follow. No changes in direction once a limb starts bending out or back at rest.

Color is not an issue with me. I draw the line at polka dots.

You are dead-on about centershot.

I guess we agree more than not. As for the Brits approving? Who gives a rats' butt about the Brits? We tossed them out years ago for good reason.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

whitewolf1 said:


> Weren't no reason to go talkin about his, uummm, draw length...


Awwwww...if he can pick on someone...surely someone can pick on him 

Ray :shade:


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> No man has control of his own body height.


Ummmm...do you truly believe that....or do you just use that as an excuse? Not trying to be mean by any means...just wondering how much you truly believe that. Unless you're being force fed, starved, forced to sit on a couch, etc. etc. ...there's plenty a man can do to control his weight.

Ray :shade:


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Ft. Jefferson- I was just coming up with an agreed upon defintion for this argument. Personally, I'd rather just say that a real longbow doesn't exist

Ray, he said height, not weight. I know plenty of folks who wish exercise could cure vertically challenges!


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

BLACK WOLF said:


> Ummmm...do you truly believe that....or do you just use that as an excuse? Not trying to be mean by any means...just wondering how much you truly believe that. Unless you're being force fed, starved, forced to sit on a couch, etc. etc. ...there's plenty a man can do to control his weight.
> 
> Ray :shade:


Wolf, I said "height" as in how tall you are. Not talking about fat [email protected]#&rds. LOL


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

kegan said:


> Ft. Jefferson- I was just coming up with an agreed upon defintion for this argument. Personally, I'd rather just say that a real longbow doesn't exist
> 
> Ray, he said height, not weight. I know plenty of folks who wish exercise could cure vertically challenges!


kegan, I'm starting to get the feeling you take me seriously. This is disturbing.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Wolf, I said "height" as in how tall you are. Not talking about fat [email protected]#&rds. LOL


LOL...my bad  Sorry :embarres:

Ray :shade:


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## Bebe (Mar 18, 2006)

kegan said:


> My younger brother outweighs me by 70# and could probaly drop the 318 from his truck on me without breaking a sweat. I have lots to compensate for:lol:
> 
> So let's see if we have a new working definition of "Real Man's Longbow"
> 
> ...


Looks to be the best definition to come of this lbr pot stirring. You all must admit that fiberglass is only there to make up for inferior wood.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

I own and love self bows. Have a few osage models and one very nice yew English model. The only reason I like glass on a bow is for increased speed and durability. I find speed essential to shoot past 20 yards. It really makes things easier. Plus, once I get a bow I like, I like to think it will take many tens of thousands of shots without losing weight or cast. All my selfbows have lost speed by following the string too much over time. Plus they are not consistant speed-wise in my hot Florida weather. Gets above 90F and they tend to lose speed. Glass bows seem unaffected.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I'm as serious about the definition of a longbow as I am about how important the color of the fletchings is to how the arrow behaves...

As for selfbows, I'd venture to say that lately folks have been making some good ones that will not only last, but also shoot plenty darn fast when compared to their straight limbed composite cousins. They just look... goofy by comparison. Super skinny tips and all. My best bow was 70# at 29", 66" ntn, made of tempered hickory and only had 1" of string follow/set (started straight) after hundreds of arrows and many long days of shooting in high heat and humidity. If I can do that with hickory then there are plenty of folks who can do better


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

steve morley said:


> When I lived in UK we had a big argument between the R/D Longbows and Hill style shooters, the R/D Longbows were to IFAA rules meaning 'D' shaped when strung but the Hill style shooters just wern't having it, so they forced a rule change making only straight limbed (when unstring) bows, this rule lasted nearly 1 year till the Nationals came around and somebody challenged this rule at the Nationals and asked for every Longbow to be inspected, nobody could find a perfectly straight Longbow (most of the hill Bows had slight forward set), so that rule was thrown out in next AGM.
> 
> Now you just get some Hill style shooter looking down their nose at you and say *"Thats not a real Longbow"* or *"Your Gapping thats not how you shoot Longbow"*, I was also told I wouldn't win any tourneys if I shot a REAL Longbow, the following year I shot a 60# Hill style bow just to prove a point and won the nationals with it, I figured after a while nothing I do would please these moaners so just did my own thing and ignored them.




Very cool post. I think we all wish we could have a moment where we prove presumption wrong like the time in your example, or in Annie Hall where Woody Allen settles an argument by pulling Marshall McLuhan out of nowhere to settle an argument.






I guess in this case you get to be Woody Allen *and* Marshall McLuhan.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> Looks to be the best definition to come of this lbr pot stirring.


Pot stirring???? Me?????? :angel:


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## benzy (Oct 23, 2006)

> Anyone care to venture a guess at what to call this thing?


I think that's a WhiteWolf Alpha??? Had a pretty cool logo too if I recall... :darkbeer:


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## vlcnrydr (Mar 29, 2009)

Kegan...Did you sell me a Ladies bow???


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

vlcnrydr said:


> Kegan...Did you sell me a Ladies bow???


If it's under 50 pounds you are the proud owner of a female's archery tackle. This does not make you a lady, however. No true lady would read this forum. (for long)


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I'm Ok shooting my girls Longbow and will take any MANS LONGBOW on in a tourney shootout, it's get to -20c here in the winter and went down to -32c for a couple of weeks this year, now if I was to shoot +70# Longbow I know something is going to snap and it wont be the Longbow. l:rip:

Anybody who can shoot +60# all day long has my respect, when I shot IFAA world field champs last Summer we had a few 60-70# Longbows with us shooting 112 arrows a day, over 5 days, none of them had the same control/form by the end of the week and most struggled half way through second day.


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## vlcnrydr (Mar 29, 2009)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> If it's under 50 pounds you are the proud owner of a female's archery tackle.


_*Well that's just great! Now I gotta start thinking about decorating the thing!!*_


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Just be sure you have a matching purse and shoes......:wink:


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

vlcnrydr said:


> _*Well that's just great! Now I gotta start thinking about decorating the thing!!*_


This man has the proper attitude. Go all in or go home. lol


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Mark, I didn't sell you a ladies longbow... I sold you a "takedown self flatbow". It's in a totally different category:lol:!


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## Kurt Blanken (Apr 12, 2011)

What about yew? Shouldn't *real* longbows be made from yew?


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## vlcnrydr (Mar 29, 2009)

kegan said:


> Mark, I didn't sell you a ladies longbow... I sold you a "takedown self flatbow". It's in a totally different category:lol:!


I know what I got, my friend! I am happy to have it. Thank you again. Actually I will be 'decorating' it with a string today and if the rain holds off we'll fling some arrows with it.

I am looking forward to it!


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I'm glad you're happy! Hope it works well for you


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## whitewolf1 (Jun 28, 2006)

LBR said:


> Just be sure you have a matching purse and shoes......:wink:


Well duh, gotta have a place to carry breath-o-flage gum and olive drab eye liner, autumn brown blush and burt beeswax lipbalm...


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

A real bow can be made out of yew, me, or any other material. It's more an attitude, not so much a material that makes a real bow.


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## whitewolf1 (Jun 28, 2006)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> A real bow can be made out of yew, me, or any other material. It's more an attitude, not so much a material that makes a real bow.


Why isnt any bow that sends an arra down range for competition or killin a real bow? Attitude measured by legth and poundage?


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

whitewolf1 said:


> Why isnt any bow that sends an arra down range for competition or killin a real bow? Attitude measured by legth and poundage?


I've confused you. My bad. Any recurve is a real bow. Any hybrid is a real bow. But for a longbow to be a "real" longbow, it has to fit the earlier parameters I set forth. I don't care what such a longbow is made of. But I have to admit, the first guy who shows up with a 90# English longbow of spliced yew and wrapped with deerhide on the grip, gets my full and lifetime respect. Yew is the gold standard.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

its not a "real" longbow unless he says it is!


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## whitewolf1 (Jun 28, 2006)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> I've confused you. My bad. Any recurve is a real bow. Any hybrid is a real bow. But for a longbow to be a "real" longbow, it has to fit the earlier parameters I set forth. I don't care what such a longbow is made of. But I have to admit, the first guy who shows up with a 90# English longbow of spliced yew and wrapped with deerhide on the grip, gets my full and lifetime respect. Yew is the gold standard.


Guess I got sidetracked on the "longbow" part.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

rsarns said:


> its not a "real" longbow unless he says it is!


At least someone finally understands. Man, I was starting to wonder.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

whitewolf1 said:


> Guess I got sidetracked on the "longbow" part.


It's a complex issue and very tiring. I can understand the confusion. Took me years to figure it out. But once I watched the original Robin Hood movie with Howard and Errol, well, it all came together at once.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> It's a complex issue and very tiring. I can understand the confusion. Took me years to figure it out. But once I watched the original Robin Hood movie with Howard and Errol, well, it all came together at once.


Are you sure you weren't watching Men In Tights. Ya know...watching that can create some confusion  Those guys use 'real' longbows 

Ray :shade:


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

If it aint _exactly_ like what the English were loosing at the French at Agincourt, it ain't a REAL longbow!

Funny thing the Hundred Years War... English archers won all the fame, but French artillery won the war.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

I think some of you really need to reconsider using the word 'real' in your classification of bows. This 'real' stuff is starting to get a little silly when you really think about it....especially when people start seriously caring about it and using it to describe their bows. 'Real' this....'real' that...next thing you know some of you will be asking if you're a 'real' person 

Instead of using the word 'real' to describe for example the bow the English were using in Agincourt...why don't we just call it an English Longbow?

Ray :shade:


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

That works for everybody but the Welsh...


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

BrokenArrows said:


> That works for everybody but the Welsh...


LOL...ya can't make everyone happy....now that's for 'real' 

Ray :shade:


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

whitewolf1 said:


> Why isnt any bow that sends an arra down range for competition or killin a real bow? Attitude measured by legth and poundage?


What about spear guns? Or neumatic grapling hook launchers? Or arrow fired by blackpowder rockets? Or gun fired arrows?

Are those all bows? :tongue:

(It is all "artillery," though  )


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

BLACK WOLF said:


> I think some of you really need to reconsider using the word 'real' in your classification of bows. This 'real' stuff is starting to get a little silly when you really think about it....especially when people start seriously caring about it and using it to describe their bows. 'Real' this....'real' that...next thing you know some of you will be asking if you're a 'real' person
> 
> Instead of using the word 'real' to describe for example the bow the English were using in Agincourt...why don't we just call it an English Longbow?
> 
> Ray :shade:


Wolf, what floors me is anyone thinks I'm real. Honestly, but one or two posters understand goofin' around. I kills me.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

What I wonder is whether the real English archers would prefer to use their ELB's or would they prefer to use their modern cousins. What would they consider Real. Seems to me that if an bowhunter can drive a moderate weight arrow into African game and kill it, same could be said in dropping a man, might even be easier. Give me a well made "Modern" longbow with equally matched arrows and I think I can do some damage.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

LongStick64 said:


> What I wonder is whether the real English archers would prefer to use their ELB's or would they prefer to use their modern cousins.


I think they'd probably prefer a Barrett .50 cal.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

BrokenArrows said:


> If it aint _exactly_ like what the English were loosing at the French at Agincourt, it ain't a REAL longbow!
> 
> Funny thing the Hundred Years War... English archers won all the fame, but French artillery won the war.



Talk about showing up at a gunfight with a pocketknife!!!! I bet no one had to tell them that the artillery was "real".:hello2:


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## eflanders (Dec 8, 2007)

I am a 52 year old archer. I shoot compounds, recurves and longbows by anyone's and all definitions. 
I also make real longbows, "pansy" longbows and longbow hybrids only of wood. I don't like wheels, cables, metal, glass, carbon or plastic when I build my bows. Kinda snobby huh? Not really, it's just what I like to work with best and that I have the appropriate tools and equipment to build with. At present, I have no desire to build anything different than this. But I do give credit to those who have had the foresight and the engineering saavy to produce effective shooting and hunting bows. 
As others have stated, it's all what you care to use and what works best for you. 
Shoot what you like and like what you shoot!


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Wolf, what floors me is anyone thinks I'm real.


That's it...I need to see a shrink. I've got to many imaginary friends :embarres: :wink:

Ray :shade:


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

kegan said:


> Mark, I didn't sell you a ladies longbow... I sold you a "takedown self flatbow". It's in a totally different category:lol:!


so you sold me a women fake long bow:mg: how could you

hell if all womens fake long bows shoot this good ill take the title proudly haha so where do i hand in my man card????


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sawtoothscream said:


> so where do i hand in my man card????


You trade it in for a 'Bro Card'.

A 'Bro Card' helps identify you as a Brother of the Bow...where you're secure enough in your manhood to shoot any bow you choose and not feel threatened by what others shoot and you don't feel any more superior when comparing yourself to the next archer because of the bow you have chosen :cheers::banana::teeth:

Ray :shade:


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## voodoofire1 (Jan 24, 2006)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> It's a complex issue and very tiring. I can understand the confusion. Took me years to figure it out. But once I watched the original Robin Hood movie with Howard and Errol, well, it all came together at once.


Your kidding right?....If not you need to look at that movie a little bit closer for a few more years........there are quite a few hybrids in there.......try looking at the scene where Robin wins the tourney..........they are VERY easy to spot.

Anyway, I'm glad you like "real" longbows, saves the good stuff for me......because I like the hybrids myself, I like them with glass, and I like them heavy too.......why?...well to me they shoot better, look better and last much longer,and I don't wince every time I pull one back for fear it'll self destruct in my face........I set out to have a "real" longbow made for me a while back as I didn't have the time to do it myself........most bowyers balked, but of the couple that said they'd try, did try but didn't succeed, now I did find a pre-built 114#er that I really liked and shot very well, but the owner would not sell it...........so I just stick with the fancy looking, faster shooting, and way more appealing bows I make, I know some don't call them a real longbow.........and I don't care, as I don't build them for the histories sake, I build them to work and work well, so you don't have to call them longbows, I don't mind a bit........just call them better....lol..............


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## elk country rp (Sep 5, 2005)

voodoofire1 said:


> Your kidding right?....If not you need to look at that movie a little bit closer for a few more years........there are quite a few hybrids in there.......try looking at the scene where Robin wins the tourney..........they are VERY easy to spot.
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad you like "real" longbows, saves the good stuff for me......because I like the hybrids myself, I like them with glass, and I like them heavy too.......why?...well to me they shoot better, look better and last much longer,and I don't wince every time I pull one back for fear it'll self destruct in my face........I set out to have a "real" longbow made for me a while back as I didn't have the time to do it myself........most bowyers balked, but of the couple that said they'd try, did try but didn't succeed, now I did find a pre-built 114#er that I really liked and shot very well, but the owner would not sell it...........so I just stick with the fancy looking, faster shooting, and way more appealing bows I make, I know some don't call them a real longbow.........and I don't care, as I don't build them for the histories sake, I build them to work and work well, so you don't have to call them longbows, I don't mind a bit........just call them better....lol..............


ok, so i can't really call your bows "real longbows", but they are interesting  - got a web site? 
btw, what are you looking for in a "real longbow"? i have a couple unfinished projects that i've put on hold because they're a little on the heavy side for me right now. i also know a few guys who like to make warbows...


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

voodoofire1 said:


> ........just call them better....lol..............


When it comes to your bows, that's one classification most of us would be happy to use !


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## voodoofire1 (Jan 24, 2006)

Thanks Kegan, looks like you've become quite the bowyer, and i'm really glad to see that, you have a very bright future ahead of you, keep up the good work!!

elk country rp, I wish I could take you up on that but I'm afraid at this present time it would be some what of a waste, due to some recent health issues I can barely pull a 45#er , so the heavy stuff is way out of the question at least for now, it's going to take some time to build up again once I get healed back up, so no shoots for me this year and I hope I can at least get a bit of hunting in before I have the next surgery, which we put off till next winter or untill I can get my bow list done......Thanks for the offer though, much appreciated.....Steve


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## voodoofire1 (Jan 24, 2006)

Oh and I do have a website, but I'm not taking orders at the present time and it may be a while before I do again, and when that happens there will be a very limited number built and they will be priced accordingly, everyone says I should have had higher prices, but I was doing this for a certain reason and money was not it, but after these recent health issues, and insuing family discussions, I don't think it would be a bad thing to be able to make at least a little bit off of all the work I put into them...some have upwards of 80 hours into them........most though range from 40-60.......and the materials can be very expensive........I use the best I can find........


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

you'll have no problem sellin all you can make, regardless of price. Functional artwork at its finest! Still in love with mine 

I hope the docs get you starightened out soon Steve. Keep the faith.


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