# advantages and disadvantages of pin-nocks over plastic nocks???



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Protecting the nock end is the primary advantage of pin systems. Although some manufacturers, and shooters, claim pin nocks do not offer any additional protection, I would offer the majority of archers who use them for that very reason as evidence that they do. 

One thing to remember though is that the addition of a pin system will add weight to the nock end of the shaft, altering your tune quite a lot vs. a standard insert or outsert nock. 

Personally, I have taken to using Beiter outsert nocks on my Nano Pros. For the level of accuracy they give me, I'll suffer the odd arrow lost to nock end impacts. 

One final thought - struck pins need to be replaced, period.

John


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## icehaven (Nov 30, 2010)

+1 on replacing struck pins. 

Whether or not the actually give more protection, i feel more confident in using them. I don't like to shoot 3-spots, so the added protection is a nice mental support.

Pin nocks are also interchangeable, so you don't have to think about buying a new type of nock for each set of arrows. For most people this (such as myself) this doesn't matter as much. But it can be convenient if you have multiple sets of different arrows.


And I'll add another question/comment: I feel like pin nocks can be attached more consistently. I put wax on all of my pins so that the tight ones get loose and the loose ones get tight. Is there any reason to not do this?


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

I've started using pin nocks to get my arrows to tune(extra strong ones from arrow smith) . The only disadvantage I can think of is that it lowers your FOC.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

I prefer the Beiter Outserts as well...a must for your high quality arrows. They will break before your arrow does and ,IMO, they are more protective than pins....


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Todd - 

It's a lot easier for a pin to loose concentricity after a hit than a "shanked" nock.

I'll stick with plain "G" nocks, but then again, most of my arrow on arrow damage happens indoors, and there I use aluminum arrows (And easily go through a 100 count of nocks bag/year.)

Viper1 out.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

what size Beiter Outserts fit MKII 850s


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Look at the Alternate Sporting Services site. They have the corresponding Beiter out-nock size for many shafts listed on their website, including I believe, the MK2-850's.

John


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## Poldi (Mar 3, 2012)

Alternative sporting is maybe the only supplier with every beiter nock size in stock 

Another very good alternative for pin nocks is the beiter in-out nock. Beiter offers sizes for most mid-level shafts like ACG, Carbon1 and VAP. Shooting my VAPs with in-out nocks and don't regret it


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> One final thought - struck pins need to be replaced, period.


Going to disagree on that one - pins should be checked for straightness, but don't NEED to be replaced unless they are bent. The Zenith "Straight Pin" tool is a great thing to have if you shoot pins.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Haven't heard of that tool. Okay, I amend my statement then. If you have a Zenith "straight pin" tool, you may not need to replace your pins once struck.  

John


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## ChrisGutsell (Sep 3, 2012)

I was glad of the pin in this arrow last night


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

It really amazes me that people use the pin system. You have a tolerance on the pin that goes inside the shaft, a tolerance that goes into the nock and then the nock itself. And let's not forget the tolerance of the inside of the shaft. So that is 3-4 tolerances that has to be dealt with. Using the Beiter inside or outside type of nock cuts down all of the various potential tolerances. Plastics are not equal and the process in making nocks is not even close when it comes to making one mold, one cavity nock (Beiter) and then the 1 mold 16 cavity G-nock (I believe Bohning's nocks are the same in quantity of cavities). The amount of temperature variances from one cavity to the next will cause issues and inconsistencies with the plastics. Years ago when I tested one of the very first Beiter nocks my scores jumped about 20 points on a FITA round. I have been a strong believer of the Beiter nock and the man (Werner Beiter) ever since.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey guys,

I can't seem to find the link for the Bieter outer nocks on Alternate Sports. 

Can one of you guys provide me a link?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Good info Rick. I have to agree, and have been shooting only Beiter insert nocks in my CXL Pro's or Outsert nocks on my Nano Pro's for the past year or more. No coincidence that all my personal best indoor and outdoor scores were shot during that time, I don't think.

John


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## ChrisGutsell (Sep 3, 2012)

I'd switched to pin nocks on the advice of my archery shop, but sounds like I need to change! I could use any help for a few more points.

Try this link: http://alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/004863.5.1391190966012169675
If it doesn't work, they're under Arrows - nocks.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

Yes, but that does not tell me what size Beiter nocks to order for McKinney II 850 shafts.

I even went to the Beiter website and downloaded their pdf, but it only list CT McKinney, not McKinney II much less the 850 shaft size.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

I went from pin nocks to g-nocks once, and the attrition rate on shafts would send a man broke; a hit on a nock was effectively a broken shaft.

I've lost one shaft ever with pins, which was a dead centre hit and would have 100% been a lost shaft anyway with g-nocks. combine with Beiter pin-outs and they are the best system I have used. I *might* consider using Beiter in-outs (due to the collar) if they made them for Protours, which they do not. 

regarding tolerances... you are always going to have the tolerance of the shaft ID and the nock regardless of the system you use, and that's before you get into g-nocks that are loose in shafts and need to be plastic bagged or taped. modern CNC machining should made for a pretty impressively regular pin, as long as you replace them if suspected bent, then I don't believe they are a limitation. I go through quite a few pins, but at 60c each versus $32 a shaft, it's not a hard choice.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

Maybe i'll change back to regular nocks when I get sponsored but for now I'll stay with pin nocks. I haven't lost a single shaft due to back strikes since i've been using pin nocks( over 20 back strikes). Meanwhile all my personal bests have been increased so i'm not yet noticing any adverse affects. I'm using the pins from this site: http://www.arrowsmith-components.co.uk/page14.html 
They are longer and thus heavier than the eastons but also seem a lot sturdier, and i'm yet to see a shaft crack on the back using these(have heard numerous stories of pin nocks cracking the back end of ace arrows)

Btw I'm using the beiter pin nock.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

They're actually these ones http://www.arrowsmith-components.co.uk/page13.html for ACE arrows.


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## ChrisGutsell (Sep 3, 2012)

atjurhs said:


> Yes, but that does not tell me what size Beiter nocks to order for McKinney II 850 shafts.
> 
> I even went to the Beiter website and downloaded their pdf, but it only list CT McKinney, not McKinney II much less the 850 shaft size.


Did you try: http://www.wernerbeiter.com/en/products/nocks/nocksearch.php


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## Poldi (Mar 3, 2012)

the beiter e-mail support is fast and very helpful.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

ChrisGutsell said:


> Did you try: http://www.wernerbeiter.com/en/products/nocks/nocksearch.php


That page does list the In-Out Nocks for McKinneyII 850s

Ok, so I don't know much at all about Beiter nocks. Are In-Out Nocks just as good as Outer Nocks? On first glance they appear to be even better?

FOLLOW-UP:

I decided to try the Beiter In-Out Nocks. They look like they have the best of both worlds, precision and some degree of shaft protection. Did I jsut waste $20?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

No. You never waste money on Beiter nocks.

Having given this a little more thought, there is one thing that should be pointed out...

Archers who have to buy their own arrows will almost always be better served using pins. They produce a very acceptable level of accuracy and most definitely protect arrows better than without pins. If you want the ultimate in protection and toughness, an archer could use the CX bulldog nock collars AND pins and then never have to worry about losing an arrow to nock-end impacts. 

My daugter and most of my students use pins, because their parents aren't made of money, and those young archers don't get their arrows for free.

Folks like Rick and myself are fortunate in that we don't have to worry so much about the cost of our arrows, so for us - or any archer who can afford to lose the occasional shaft - I would say it makes more sense to be using Beiter nocks. 

John


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

So, the question I'll pose is:

Will the Beiters and it's potential increase in accuracy outweigh the occasional lost shaft?

I know that Spencer's lost X10's before with pin nocks before, especially in outdoor. So I'm not necessarily worried about losing a shaft. I am very interested in the potential upside that the nocks could provide.

Yes, it's chasing one or two points. But at this stage of the game, I don't mind a minor cost increase for an increase in accuracy and consistency.


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## Poldi (Mar 3, 2012)

atjurhs said:


> I decided to try the Beiter In-Out Nocks. They look like they have the best of both worlds, precision and some degree of shaft protection. Did I jsut waste $20?


no.
when i bought a dozen victory VAP 500 for outdoor FITA they came pre installed with bohning f-nocks. i changed the nocks soon to easton g - my proven and to the serving suitable nock.
after some months i read that beiter updated their nock compatibility list and ordered in-outs for my VAPs. i'm an intermediate archer with 1100+ level, but i could instantly count an improvement in my scoring with the beiter nocks. and i belive they will protect the shaft better than normal "in-nocks" as easton g-type.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

Beiter also makes nocks for the pin system, you guys know that right ?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Will the Beiters and it's potential increase in accuracy outweigh the occasional lost shaft?


For me they do. But then, I can afford to lose a shaft every now and then (although, knock on wood, I've not lost a Nano Pro in a long time). The other consideration is whether an archer is skilled enough for it to really matter. At this point in my career, I'm not sure it really matters which nocks I use. As you say, if an archer is seeking those last few precious points, then why not? But if they are looking for 20-30 point improvements, there are other places to look for that.



> Beiter also makes nocks for the pin system, you guys know that right ?


Of course! They are the best pin nocks available. But Beiter resisted the production of pin nocks for the longest time (finally giving into the overwhelming requests for them) because he knows his existing nocks are superior to a pin system for accuracy. 

John


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

> superior to a pin system for accuracy.


Inconveniently for your argument Peter Elzinga's 1419 WR was set with Easton pin nocks. Beiter nocks are great, I use them myself for tuning reasons, but arguing about the accuracy of a system which has been proven countless times is a little silly.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

Does anyone know if the McKinney II shafts will ever become available again. I talked to Rick a few times and it seems the Chinese are unable to get them done the way he wants them. I'm using VAPs instead but would still like to have a set of the II's.
Joe B.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John - 




limbwalker said:


> The other consideration is whether an archer is skilled enough for it to really matter. At this point in my career, I'm not sure it really matters which nocks I use. As you say, if an archer is seeking those last few precious points, then why not? But if they are looking for 20-30 point improvements, there are other places to look for that.
> 
> John


Thanks for posting that. This is why I rarely get involved with "equipment" threads. Don't know what it's like in other parts of the country or with every poster here, but I all too often see people (kids and adults) you can't break a 250 (sometimes a 200) on a 300 round, looking for the "best" this or that, what the top guy in the world is using or always looking to upgrade something or other. The painful reality, is that most of these people just really need to learn how to shoot. 

Really, if someone is that worried about breaking arrows, shoot a 3 or 5 spot indoors. Frankly, if I start busting arrows at 70M, I'll be tickled pink... 

Like I said, I'm staying with my "G" nocks, until I can detect a loss directly attributable to them. 

Viper1 out.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Tony, you and I both see it all the time. It's like amatuer golfers worrying about what driver Tiger and Rory are using now. LOL! As if the one asking can swing like they can. 

Some would say (usually those with money to burn) that if you can get the "best" equipment, then why not remove that variable from the equasion? There is some logic to that argument, I'll admit. Others would say that once their form and strength and mental game improves, they will upgrade to better equipment. That also seems reasonable. I don't think there is a "wrong" way, unless a person just has unreasonable ideas of what a difference more expensive gear will do for them. You know, like the person that poo-poo's a $2.50 Hoyt Super rest in favor of the $50 Free flight wrap-around rest. 

As for smashing arrows at distance, it's not so much a recurver's problem as it is a compounder's problem, especially now when they're being asked to stack 6 arrows into an 80cm 6-ring target at 50 meters... 

John


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John -

Compounds, really??? Always thought that was just a fad...:zip:

Viper1 out.


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## Poldi (Mar 3, 2012)

a bit off topic, but the reason why i bought beiter in outs was the fit. when they score slightly better - good. when they protect more than in-nocks - better.
if nothing - who cares. 
but i need no ptfe-tape to fit nocks with shafts. the beiters in-outs just work. 
and i like things that work and don't cost the earth....


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

We are in full production again. We figured out how to build them with less waste so the price is substantially less than in the past. Right now on the Carbon Tech web site you can get 25% off which equates to about $206 per dozen. 



zenarch said:


> Does anyone know if the McKinney II shafts will ever become available again. I talked to Rick a few times and it seems the Chinese are unable to get them done the way he wants them. I'm using VAPs instead but would still like to have a set of the II's.
> Joe B.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

If you use the Beiter 5.20mm outnock it should work. Also you can use the trustworthy 12-1 and 12-2. 



atjurhs said:


> Yes, but that does not tell me what size Beiter nocks to order for McKinney II 850 shafts.
> 
> I even went to the Beiter website and downloaded their pdf, but it only list CT McKinney, not McKinney II much less the 850 shaft size.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Tony, you and I both see it all the time. It's like amatuer golfers worrying about what driver Tiger and Rory are using now. LOL! As if the one asking can swing like they can.
> 
> Some would say (usually those with money to burn) that if you can get the "best" equipment, then why not remove that variable from the equasion? There is some logic to that argument, I'll admit. Others would say that once their form and strength and mental game improves, they will upgrade to better equipment. That also seems reasonable. I don't think there is a "wrong" way, unless a person just has unreasonable ideas of what a difference more expensive gear will do for them. You know, like the person that poo-poo's a $2.50 Hoyt Super rest in favor of the $50 Free flight wrap-around rest.
> 
> ...


John,

There are as many different 'reasons' for wanting to buy the newest/bestest golf club as there are golfers who buy them. But what I think is overplayed in many cases is the notion that the club ain't gonna help the hacker score like Tiger does. But I think that's many times off the mark. I've had a lot of years of racing dirtbikes in enduros and cross country races in the past (getting to be distant past), and believe me, some of the most spirited/hotly contested racing going on is between the guys duking it out for 19th place (ask me how I know!). A lot of the guys aren't thinking that the club will magically make them Tiger Wood's equal - they're much more hoping that it gives them the slight edge to beat _their_ friend they play golf with every week - they're looking to shave off a couple of precious points that will eek them past _their peers_ 87 to 89, or 97 to 99 (or maybe 102 to 104). 

Midgets buy Michael Jordan sneakers to outjump _other midgets_ (no offense intended to midgets).


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Right now on the Carbon Tech web site you can get 25% off which equates to about $206 per dozen.


Crap! That's a really good price for those arrows! Just in time for U.S. Field Nationals too... 

Larry, you make a great point! Never quite thought of it that way.

John


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## Poldi (Mar 3, 2012)

hmm, strange direction this thread is running.
i can't see similarities between amateur golfers choosing the club tiger woods uses and archers choosing beiter nocks. (if this was intended with the previous threads)

example:
pin bushing + pin nock: appr. 2$
beiter: appr. 1.3$


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

Good morning Poldi,

the discussion is about choice of equipment and why we buy what we buy. as the original poster I asked about advantages and disadvantages of equipment choices. the other guys are just giving analogies to help state/clarify their opinions and beliefs, so as I see things, the post is still on track. If anything it has expanded to now include Beiter nocks as well as G pin-nocks and G insert nocks, and I'm thankfull for that


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

so a corollary question:

on the Beiter website I found both Inner-Outer nocks and just Outer nocks, I can see what the physical difference between the two types are, but are there advantages and/or disadvantages between these two types of Beiter nocks? Are they both just as protective of the shafts? Does the Inner-Outer fit more precisely? etc.....


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## eagle man (Jun 7, 2011)

If I'm correct you can't get Beiter in out nocks or the Beiter out nocks for ever arrow? Like I don't think they are made for Carbon one shafts. Anybody know for sure?


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

you can get in-outs, outnocks and pin-outs for X10s, although why you'd want to use an outnock over the other two defeats me.


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## Poldi (Mar 3, 2012)

eagle man said:


> If I'm correct you can't get Beiter in out nocks or the Beiter out nocks for ever arrow? Like I don't think they are made for Carbon one shafts. Anybody know for sure?


yes to he first question. but you can get in-outs for carbon ones up to spine 600.
there is one in-out size exclusive for x10. the other sizes fit most (thin) shafts with 0.166 ID (g-nock size) as ace, acg, mckinneys, medaillion pro, vap...


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## toys (May 29, 2009)

The pins I was using worked great for me and tuned well at 47#. But then I wanted to go to 47.5# and was practicing at 70m and shot two 3s on one end. Normally that wouldn't be that bad, but here the bales have metal and wood there, and the arrows hit pretty hard. The fronts were fine but the pins split the back of the arrows down an inch (x10 410s) and this got me to thinking about the stress on the arrows from so many shots, especially when I'm blank bale shooting. Then I switched to a plastic out nock, which I know won't damage the back and has several other advantages, such as a better fit on the string, easier to see, etc.. As a disadvantage, I of course then had to increase to 48# to tune it, and the arrows are a little longer as well, but also lighter. Also, with the pins I had several hits where the pin protected the back alright but the arrows still cracked from the force, so that advantage also drops at higher poundage. And here's a funny story about increasing the poundage. When I first tried it I thought the arrows would fly much further, but they didn't. It took me a week to figure out what it was. My form had collapsed and I no longer had my back muscles working properly on release and it took a week to get my form back and now the arrows fly much further.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Toys,

"And here's a funny story about increasing the poundage. When I first tried it I thought the arrows would fly much further, but they didn't. It took me a week to figure out what it was. My form had collapsed and I no longer had my back muscles working properly on release and it took a week to get my form back and now the arrows fly much further."

That's a great anecdotal example. Thanks!


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## toys (May 29, 2009)

No problem, I have lots of them! Here's another since it's so quiet. I have my bow tuned for both aces and x10s where I just have to move the clicker in for the aces. To test out the tune I shoot bareshart and fletched at 135yrds. When I tried the x10s I thought they wouldn't fly so far, so when I went looking I couldn't find them at first since they went much further than the lighter aces and the sight marks were about 5 lines better. And the bareshaft and fletched grouped within a few feet of each other with no seeming difference at all. At that poundage, little things don't seem to matter to the arrow much at all. The weather was 20 to 50mph wind and rain. When I got there a big tree crashed down and everything was flooding, but I was the only one there, strangely enough (road was about to close due to flooding), and shot for hours and didn't lose any. Here's a question I was wondering about. It's funny but at 90m the front of the stab is just long enough to point to the bottom of the target, is that "legal"? I assume we can't just move the sight to the end of the stab, that may be nice.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

toys said:


> The fronts were fine but the pins split the back of the arrows down an inch (x10 410s) and this got me to thinking about the stress on the arrows from so many shots


sorry, but no way did was the pin the cause. the weight of the pin and a little glue is absolutely minute. think about it... the front of the shaft isn't damaged by compression during impact with the butt with the entire mass of the shaft pulling up behind it, how can a couple of grams possibly cause compression damage? more likely what happened is the arrow hit the solid timber, and the resulting vibration caused the tail of the shaft to shake to pieces - assuming it wasn't already damaged anyway.



> Also, with the pins I had several hits where the pin protected the back alright but the arrows still cracked from the force, so that advantage also drops at higher poundage.


pins are not magic. if you hit them square enough on to drive the shoulder into the tail of the shaft, they're going to damage it, and yes, higher poundages exacerbate that issue. they still deflect arrows fine out of a 60lb compound, in fact the only shaft I have lost so far due to impact on the pin was with a 36lb recurve, and I have no idea how many pins I have replaced in my Protours with zero shaft loss.

if you lose a shaft with a pin strike then it was 100% gone with any other nock system anyway, plus all the others you would have lost in the meantime too.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm shooting MKIIs from a 32lbs. bow and so far at 18m I've only "lost" one arrow, it was a robinhood and it had a pin-nock. obviously if it had a plastic nock, it would still have been a robinhood. Perhaps pin-nocks do offer some degree of extra protection. That was clearly stated as a possible advantage in the original post. 

So the question remains, what other advantages/disadvantages are there between the two? 

Rick clearly stated the issue of multiple manufacturing tolerances (that would be additive) as a disadvantage. 

We've also talked about changing the FOC ever so slightly, and retuning when changing from one nock type to another. 

Are there still more, or does that about exhaust it?


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

> Rick clearly stated the issue of multiple manufacturing tolerances (that would be additive) as a disadvantage.


Plenty of records have been set with pin nocks including Peter Elzinga's 1419 (Easton pins and G-Pin nocks). As long as you're buying from a competent manufacturer (such as Easton or Beiter) I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Poldi (Mar 3, 2012)

no doubt that g-nocks are doing their job very very well.
just my experience was that on all carbon-shafts with 0.166 id, some nocks sit loose or became loose after some time.
maybe you cannot produce that exact inner diameter on all carbon arrows than with aluminium tubes like ac-arrows.
therefor i switched to beiter in-out - no need for ptfe tape because the outer collar gives additional fitting.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

>--gt--> said:


> Plenty of records have been set with pin nocks including Peter Elzinga's 1419 (Easton pins and G-Pin nocks). As long as you're buying from a competent manufacturer (such as Easton or Beiter) I wouldn't worry about it.


didn't say how many records have or have not been made with pin-nocks or plastic knocks, didn't say I was worried about tolerances, just said that tolerances was delineated as one potential disadvantage of pin-nocks.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Well, if you know much about the subject of injection molding, you know that a machined metal pin can easily be made 10 times more precisely than the shank of a molded plastic nock from any vendor. And, pin nocks can be molded more precisely than other types because of section thickness and other factors. So the accuracy question is not only at least as good on paper- it has been proven over and over for more than 15 years.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Easton should give you a raise, Mr. Marketing....



>--gt--> said:


> Well, if you know much about the subject of injection molding, you know that a machined metal pin can easily be made 10 times more precisely than the shank of a molded plastic nock from any vendor. And, pin nocks can be molded more precisely than other types because of section thickness and other factors. So the accuracy question is not only at least as good on paper- it has been proven over and over for more than 15 years.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I sometimes like how we argue about things here that not a single one of us can tell the difference in.  

Sure passes the time quickly. LOL.

It always helps to keep things in perspective. It's a shame that any of us would take something as trivial as a tool design so personally. They're just tools. We're still the ones that make them move. 

John


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> I sometimes like how we argue about things here that not a single one of us can tell the difference in.
> 
> Sure passes the time quickly. LOL.
> 
> ...


I wonder if one advantage of out-nocks is that they might be a bit more convenient. If I'm supposed to replace the pin every time when a nock gets shot off, then I have two parts to replace, as opposed to one with the out-nock, if I correctly understand how out-nocks work.

Any disadvantages with out-nocks? Do they ever get stuck on the end of the arrow or do they always come off fairly easily? I've got to shorten a set of arrows which have pins glued into the ends and am wondering whether going with the out-nocks might be a better option.

Right now I'll probably just go with the pin-nocks again because that's what I'm used to -- but this time I'll use saran wrap and press fit instead of glueing these in.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Any reason not to use hot melt glue for the nock pins? The hot melt glue is easily defeated with a little bit of heat.


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

lksseven said:


> Any reason not to use hot melt glue for the nock pins? The hot melt glue is easily defeated with a little bit of heat.


The person who built the arrows split the tail of one when he assembled it with hot melt and decided that glue was safer. Since then I've made a homemade arrow saw and assemble the arrows myself. There was a long discussion here where people seemed to arrive at a consensus that a press fit with saran wrap or teflon tape was a good way to install nock pins and I've heard that from another source as well. I like to use low temperature hot melt on points, which I hold in my fingers, but I haven't tried this on nock pins because I think that I would burn my fingers. (It's a lot easier to gradually heat the shank of a point and wait for the heat to reach the fingers than to grab a little tiny pin with the torch a 1/4 inch away!!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Larry I've used a tiny dab of hot melt on my pins many times. Doesn't take much. 

John


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

I'll use an Elmers glue/paste stick like the ones they give to 3rd graders in art class. It cost a whole $1 for two. I use it on many things, like allen set screws on a sight that keep coming loose, screw-in points, and anything else (lots of stuff around the house) that I don't want to come loose until I want it to come loose. And when you want it to come loose it will probably turn loose with a hard turn or simply stick it in hot water and it comes right off.


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## atjurhs (Oct 19, 2011)

I know this isn't the classified, but on topic....

is anyone interested in a set of 12 ACE pin-nocks with blue G sized plastic nocks and 12 ACE 100-110-120 grain break-off points, all new?


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Low temp hot melt is fine, if you give it a spin while still molten in the shaft.


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## stanlh (Jul 23, 2010)

for reference


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Hiker Dave,

I hold the pin over the gas stove with a pair of pliers for about 6 seconds, then rub it across the hot melt glue stick to coat it lightly with glue, then push the pin into the shaft (giving it a twirl as >..gt..> suggests, for even distribution). Wait for it to cool for a minute or two, then peel off the small bit of glue - that's now the consistency of a weak rubber band - with my thumbnail, and voila!

If removal is needed in the future, just hold the arrow shaft and position the naked pin tip over the flame for about 4 or 5 seconds, softening the hot melt glue, then pull it out easily with a pair of pliers.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

HikerDave said:


> The person who built the arrows split the tail of one when he assembled it with hot melt and decided that glue was safer. Since then I've made a homemade arrow saw and assemble the arrows myself. There was a long discussion here where people seemed to arrive at a consensus that a press fit with saran wrap or teflon tape was a good way to install nock pins and I've heard that from another source as well. I like to use low temperature hot melt on points, which I hold in my fingers, but I haven't tried this on nock pins because I think that I would burn my fingers. (It's a lot easier to gradually heat the shank of a point and wait for the heat to reach the fingers than to grab a little tiny pin with the torch a 1/4 inch away!!


get some cheap hot glue, melt some over a fire, spread it on your pin(or point) hold the pin the in the flame for a second just to soften the glue again and push it in. This way there's no heat in the pin that can transfer to the carbon.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

Interesting to see that Jake kaminski is using pin nocks. You'd think a top archer like him shouldn't worry about broken arrows and is more interested in accuracy, yet he uses pin nocks.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

yea, but those are BEITER pin nocks...


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