# 12 volt motor winch [ ? can you cut the speed down



## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hey guys. I have a 12 volt cable winch. Its rating is 1500 pounds straight pull.Its fast.

Now to my question. I just need 400 pound pull to do my task. I would like for the winch to pull,a little slower. If i slow it down,will this hurt the motor. 
? 2 how do i slow it down. With something ,like a rheostat. [Later


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## nywell (Feb 21, 2005)

*Use pulleys*

If you use pulleys, you will slow down the speed of the lift point. Imagine a deer hoist, you have to pull thru 30 feet of rope to get deer to lift 6 feet. Use something like that, it will slow down speed of lift point.


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## Whack Master (Jul 14, 2003)

*hoist*

I think you might burn out the motor if you add a rheostat to slow it down... I would go with the extra shivs (pulleys) idea we use them all the time at work you can buy them at any good construction supply store and you will actually gain in pulling power even though you don't need it :shade:


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## Silver Pine (Dec 9, 2005)

Unk Bond said:


> Hey guys. I have a 12 volt cable winch. Its rating is 1500 pounds straight pull.Its fast.
> 
> Now to my question. I just need 400 pound pull to do my task. I would like for the winch to pull,a little slower. If i slow it down,will this hurt the motor.
> ? 2 how do i slow it down. With something ,like a rheostat. [Later



Possibly. Operating an electric motor at less than its designed RPM means less cooling and excessive heat will destroy electronic equipment. 

What model cable winch are you talking about? Is the motor, clutch and drum combined into a one-piece unit? 

Pulleys or gears are the way to go. A 2:1 reduction will cut your speed in half and a 10:1 reduction will reduce your rate of pull from 100" per minute to 10" per minute (but you know that). 

Are you really concerned with having 1500 lbs of pull as long as you have more than 400 lbs? 

:cocktail:


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## gbear (May 30, 2009)

is it fast with no load? or is it just too fast with your 400# load?
with no load it will be fast

you can apply less voltage to a DC motor, it doesn't care
less input=less output
within reason you can apply more voltage also and get more speed

don't do this to an AC motor though

remember also that your winch rating of 1500# is for the first coil on the spool, each layer that the cable builds up reduces the rating


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hello All
The drum winch i have is like the ones i used on a ATV 4 Wheeler. Only smaller in size.Here is a pic.
Now i hooked this winch up to a finger bow press i made. It works great. But a little slower would be better.



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Planetary gear system for fast, reliable pulling 
1.5 HP, 12 volt heavy duty permanent magnetic motor 
Automatic load-holding brake 
Free spooling clutch 
2000 lb. rated single line pull 
Power-in, power-out 
Remote control with 50" cord 

50 ft. x 5/32" aircraft cable; Gear ratio: 153:1; Line speed: 10.5 ft. per minute @ 550 lbs, 7.5 ft. per minute @ 1000 lbs, 5.9 ft. per minute @ 1500 lbs; Mounting base dimensions: 5-1/2" L x 4-1/8" W; bolt pattern: 1.9" x 3"; Overall dimensions: 12.2" L x 4.5" W x 4.3" H
Shipping weight: 16.2 lbs.


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## vnvgunner (Nov 7, 2009)

Double pull with one pulley at the load end. You will be surprised at how much it will slow it down.


[winch]========================0 {load}


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Guys ] right now with the bow snug in the fingers. One on and off, press of the winch control button. And the bow is pressed. [ Later


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## 69Boss302 (May 5, 2009)

here is an idea use a resistor to apply less voltage to the winch which would slow it down otherwise try and find a heavy duty reostat to slow down the motor


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

You can use any electric motor at half rated voltage, but it will draw twice the current increasing the heat generated and reducing the motors life. But it can reduce the motors RPM's by about half. A 1725 RPM motor will generally run at about 600-800 RPM's depending on the efficiency of the motor and the amount of current available. Then you run into another problem, the motor wants more current and the power supply cant provide it so the power supply is stressed to the point that it fails. It can be done easily if you know what you are doing.... but I agree with previous posters... a gear reducer would be best.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

A 12 volt winch is not worth a gear reducer. I bet he doesn't want pulleys rigged up either. A rheostat will work fine just get one that will handle the current. You can pick one up for a few bucks. Go by a dimmer light switch at lowes, it will work. A benefit to a DC motor is you can run it at very low RPM and keep torque. AC motors you have to use a drive to change the frequency of the sine wave to change the speed. DC motors can run at very, very, low RPM's. Of course as stated earlier this will give some increase in current demand due to change in counter electromotive force. With your set-up not enough to matter.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

by the way they make a cheap 110v AC winch with adjustable speed. I believe you can find them at Harbor freight or northern tool. They just aren't torque monsters but would handle what you need.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

bclowman said:


> by the way they make a cheap 110v AC winch with adjustable speed. I believe you can find them at Harbor freight or northern tool. They just aren't torque monsters but would handle what you need.




Hello all
I first looked at a 110v AC winch at Harbor freight .Weight was a factor, i took into consideration. Something like 45 pounds. Verses 14 + pounds.

Now for the short time of pull, using the bow press. With low pull pounds,no more than 400 pounds to compress the bow. And with a short travel of about 3 inches. To set up and compress the bow. Like you,i,m thinking a rheostat would work. [ Later


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

bclowman said:


> A 12 volt winch is not worth a gear reducer. I bet he doesn't want pulleys rigged up either. A rheostat will work fine just get one that will handle the current. You can pick one up for a few bucks. Go by a dimmer light switch at lowes, it will work. A benefit to a DC motor is you can run it at very low RPM and keep torque. AC motors you have to use a drive to change the frequency of the sine wave to change the speed. DC motors can run at very, very, low RPM's. Of course as stated earlier this will give some increase in current demand due to change in counter electromotive force. With your set-up not enough to matter.


I agree.

You can slow down a DC motor to a crawl and not damage it. Go to Radio Shack or even better Grainger and get a rheostat. You could use a potentiometer but that would require a the aid of a voltage regulating board as well and that can get expensive.


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## archeryhunterME (Feb 12, 2006)

Run power to a dimmer first, then just dim the motor down:shade:


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

archeryhunterME said:


> Run power to a dimmer first, then just dim the motor down:shade:


As soon as i get some time. Will try one. And will post a pic.
Now i have pictures of this press here at AT. I'm using at car battery,at this time. But plan to down size to a lawn mower batter. Really the press won't be used that much. So the little battery.With a trickle charger. Should work quiet well. [ Later


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## 2-STROKE (Aug 17, 2006)

I would highly reccommend one of these two options over the dimmer...

Cheapest First.

1) use a Snatch block (a single pulley) as stated above.

2) Utilize a 6V Golf Cart Battery instead of a 12V Car Battery. 6V will reduce speed of motor by 1/2. I know people are gonna say that a reduction of half the Voltage will increase the Current by 2... and they are right, but take the following into consideration:

Since you stated you will be using your winch roughly 1/5 its rating, 400lbs vice 2000lbs... we can start by calculating that at its maxium, 2000lbs = 1.5HP = 1118.5 Watts... and since I know Power (watts) = Current(Amps)*Voltage - a 12V system at peak would draw 93 Amps.

Now, lets try again, using the fact you will use 1/5 the rating with a 12V and 6V battery. 
1118.5/5=223.7W so... 223.7/12V= 18.7 Amps.
1118.5/5=223.7W so... 223.7W/6V= 37.3 Amps.

So, going to 6V at 1/5 the work load will still 1/3 less than maximum safe range for the winch.

If it were me, I would choose the snatch block idea first. The use of if it will also allow the winch to have a better mechanical advantage.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

Got to consider that a batteries amp rating is based on a time frame in which it can exert x amps for x amount of time, not continuos. A high peak will kill kill those lower current rated batteries quickly. It's not just about votage. for instance a 12 volt car battery versus 8 aa batteries in series. The aa's may have the same votage but they want turn that car engine over.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hello All
First off, i want to thank all of that came to my aid with suggestions and input.

[ Now   ] Well i slept on it last night. Decided a pulley, i would try.

To the shop i go. I say to self. I need a small block pulley. So i began searching. And found a small 2 block rope pulley. I had stored away. And never been used.

Took my ink marker in hand. Marked the location of the loose end finger base part . That traveled on the track. Being the right side of the bow press.
Just as it was. The first time i set it up, with no pulleys. But under a snug spring tension.

Touched the control in button once. The loose end traveled 1 3/8 inches.

*********

2nd i attached the single block pulley on the cable. Fasten the pulley to the moving end of the press. 
Took the dead end of the the cable end .And dogged it off on the other end of the press.To-wards the winch end. 

Touched the control button once. The loose end traveled 11/16 of a inch.
Well - well . This is nice.  




**************

But what if  i asked my self. And my conversation went on pertaining to another question. What if i use the 2 pulley block system. [ So ] 

I hooked up the 2 block pulley system, under a slight snug of spring tension. Using the 3 pulleys . Remarked the finger base traveling part at rest, for a travel mark.

Touched the control button once. The loose end traveled 3/8 of a inch, or less,with several tries.  :thumbs_up 

****************************************************

Now to the rating of these snatch block pulleys.
Using a one line pull, with one pulley .It was rated at 180 pounds.
Now using the two line pull. It was rated at 400 pounds.

So my finding, after pressing a bow ,5 times. Its oh so smooth. :thumbs_up Its just a Hum-ding-er of a press guys. And i owe it all to you guys, for your support on this thread. Helping me slow that motor down. 

Will post pictures later, of how i attached the 2 block ,hook up. [ Later


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## tjones96761 (Apr 10, 2010)

sounds like you got the speed figured out. now lets look at the power...
control transformers are readily available in Oklahoma because of oilfield and pipeline work. also available online or at any electrical supply. you could wire in a 120v-12v transformer and a bridge rectifier and plug it in direct. no dead batteries at inconvenient times. why settle for a Honda when you could have a Cadillac?


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

tjones96761 said:


> sounds like you got the speed figured out. now lets look at the power...
> control transformers are readily available in Oklahoma because of oilfield and pipeline work. also available online or at any electrical supply. you could wire in a 120v-12v transformer and a bridge rectifier and plug it in direct. no dead batteries at inconvenient times. why settle for a Honda when you could have a Cadillac?




Hello
You have my attention. And i couldn't agree more on the Cadillac. 
Have one, And it has set for 3 years. The gas thing U know. :wink:

But as you might have noticed. I started out with a hand crank boat belt winch. By removing its cable. Then on to the cable power winch. Then another change, using the 2 block hook up.

Now if i can incorporate your idea suggestion.. It will do two things. One being .Eliminating the big battery and still using the small light winch. 2 i can eliminate about 18 inches of space the battery and its attach base takes up.

A guy made the comment in a post. That it was real long. Well the 10 foot track. Is also made, to make bow strings on.

Now by eliminating the battery. Now a smaller press can, now be made.Just for some one , that just wants a bow press.

---------------------------------------------
Sorry about not posting a pic of it here. Its hard to get a pic.Here at AT in more than one thread.With out rerouting the pic's and bringing them back.

Below is a link you can see i few pic's. And the Master jig thread. Has the string attachments and other with a lot of pic's on that thread. I will link here [ Thanks Later.


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1057557492#post1057557492


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=975284

Ps. my great grand father is buried in your fine state. :wink:


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hello All

Got this question. U might be able to help me with.

First lets lay some power down.


This cable winch has a motor power, 1.5 HP -12 VDC Amperage at Max,load = 110.
Gear Reduction Ration 153.1
Amp Draw 110 Amps @ 2000 lb. Load
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lets lay some power down. Got this big 12 VDC battery charger. Now you can use this battery charge to jump a car battery. It puts out 240 Amps when jumping a car battery.

Now to the question at hand.  My 12 VDC cable winch draws 110 Amps --240 Amps comes out of the battery charger.

? What would happen, if i hooked that battery charger leads. Up to the 2 leads coming from the the control switch. Being attached to 12 VDC cable winch drawing 110 Amps at full load.

Now say it takes about 90 to 150 pounds pressure to press a bow. Now the max capacity of the cable winch pulling. Is 2000 lbs. So the winch would only be using a very small amount of power. Compare to the 2000 max. And just 1/2 the Amps coming out of the battery charger. And that being 240 Amps minus 110 Amps for the winch .Leaves 130 Amps .

 Now do think it will work. First thing i see ,is the size of the wiring maybe being small, to carry 240 Amps. What do you think.. What else am i missing here. :wink:


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## gbear (May 30, 2009)

to press your bow i wouldn't hesitate to hook it up to a 12V 20A supply. If your winch drew 20A, to press your bow i'd be suprised.
it doesn't matter how much power you have available, the load(winch in this case is only going to draw however much it needs to do the job.
so with no load it only needs enough amps to turn the gearhead/wind the cable on the spool
and at full load it will draw maximum current rating
so at <10% of its rating it won't even break a sweat.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

gbear said:


> to press your bow i wouldn't hesitate to hook it up to a 12V 20A supply. If your winch drew 20A, to press your bow i'd be suprised.
> it doesn't matter how much power you have available, the load(winch in this case is only going to draw however much it needs to do the job.
> so with no load it only needs enough amps to turn the gearhead/wind the cable on the spool
> and at full load it will draw maximum current rating
> so at <10% of its rating it won't even break a sweat.


Hello And thanks. 
? Then would you try the battery charger with the 240 Amp switch turn on.


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## gbear (May 30, 2009)

Unk Bond said:


> Hello And thanks.
> ? Then would you try the battery charger with the 240 Amp switch turn on.


No. i don't think there is any need for that. What is the regular battery charging output? if it's 10-20A or more then you should be good to go. Just an off the cuff guess, since i don't know the power curve of the motor, i'd say you will draw less than 10A, but that's just a guess. If you have a meter on your charger let us know what it shows.


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