# Manufacturer's grips...



## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

It's hard to tell, but it looked like Brady was using an unmodified Ergo Grip on his RX at the World Cup in Japan.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

negative. It's been modified. At least, the one on his pink bow was.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

So, if modified, did his Ergo look like this?


----------



## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Does anyone know the status of Jaeger? Would like to try his grips.


----------



## Zbone (Aug 4, 2012)

Who makes custom grips?


----------



## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

Could it be that the companies figure that people are just going to change it anyway, so they don't want to bother with something that will be modified by the end user anyway?


----------



## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

It might be because most people who buy are not top archers and/or don't really know the correct way to place their bowhand into a bow These people will usually pick up a bow in the shop and hold it like they would a pistol, with vertical knuckles instead of the 45' angle. In this case a grip with a rounded edge feels nicer. I'm sure you've seen novices pick up a bow with a properly modified grip, hold it incorrectly and complain about the sharp edge down the left hand side of the grip. So my theory is...stock bow grips are made that way to help sell the bow to the untrained or uneducated, or those who don't fully try a bow out before buying. That is; the majority of archery consumers


----------



## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Riser manufacturers that don't provide OE options are really losing out. Ejits, like me, who are unhappy/think they can get better with their grips will buy several different ones to try them out and be left with a variety of surplus unused grips hanging around...every manufacturers delight surely.


----------



## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

Once there was a factory grip that met Limbwalker's demands: Yamaha low grip, which was used in risers YTSL-II, EX and Alpha EX. Most guys used it successfully right out of the box.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Mike, when Vic Wunderle was shooting the PSE X-appeal at the Oly. trials earlier this year, I asked him which grips he had on them. I'm very familiar with his equipment and the grips he's used on his Mathews risers over the years, so I was curious what kind of grip solution he had chosen for the PSE's. It was,in fact, a pair of old Yamaha grips that just happened to fit the PSE exactly. He was shooting them stock.

Acehero, I'm sure you and Sighting in are correct. Just get the bow out the door with a "comfortable" grip for the masses, who, as you say - grip it like a pistol to begin with.

I was thinking Hoyt was going to release Jake Kaminski's grip for their Formula series. Not sure if they have yet or not, but having heard the rumor, I took a look at Jake's grips at the TX Shootout. Again, typical hard and fairly sharp palm side edge. Definitely not stock and nothing like the Ergo or Ortho choices.

John


----------



## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

The stock grip on the Inno CXT has a nice slope to it....not enough, but definitely better than other risers I have tried....


----------



## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

Edgerat...in reference to your question about Jaeger.....I talked to Paul this week..... He is still dealing with the passing of his father, and a family issue, but is doing well and is planning to be up and running soon.


----------



## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

DK was the one who originally put me onto the fact that Yamaha Eolla grips fit the PSE Intrepid - he'd deliberately designed it that way, despite his own love of a particular old Hoyt grip which he used to make fit on every riser he shot.

My Luxor wooden grip works very nicely so far, but I'd still like a low Jager BEST grip or a low/medium Loesch instead...


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

The origin of all working grips presently existing is Yamaha. They were first in designing and producing a full line of grips with the righ angle (slope) on thumb side. They had 4 level of grips: 1 Low, 2 Medium, 3 High 4 Extreme. The #2 was similar in angle to the TD4 medium one, that was the most common of that age. The #3 is the origin of almost all Asian grips existing today, #4 is the origin of super extreme variation used by Natalia Valeeva only.
It is a mistery also to me why for many models, several companies still tend to make grips with the slope on the wrong side. I have filed hundreds of grips in my life to correct that mistake, and I have discussed it with almost all manufacturers... All of them agree how a good grip has to be, and all of them, on one model or another, make it wrong.


----------



## zal (May 1, 2007)

I have a-ex grips which fit current hoyt models and ytsl grips which fit some samics. They are pretty good. #3 and one #2.


----------



## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

Are you all talking about a grip like the Jaeger B.E.S.T. grip, even if you don't use the B.E.S.T. method?


----------



## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

st8arrow said:


> Edgerat...in reference to your question about Jaeger.....I talked to Paul this week..... He is still dealing with the passing of his father, and a family issue, but is doing well and is planning to be up and running soon.


Thank you! I lost my father to brain cancer three years ago and certainly understand the stressors and changes.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Vittorio, thanks for the background and confirmation that I'm not the only one who can't understand this phenomenon. I mean, when a manufacturer's left-handed grip works better for a right-handed archer than their right-handed grips, then we have a real problem.

I had high hopes (and at least one present Olympian agrees with me on this) that the re-designed Ortho and Ergo Hoyt grips would usher in a new era of "biomechanically correct" bow grips straight from the manufacturer. However, this simply isn't the case. I think they're better than what we had before, but only about halfway to what we need.

Would it be so hard to put entry level "comfortable" grips on entry level risers and biomechanically correct grips on high-end risers? They should come that way when you buy them.



> Are you all talking about a grip like the Jaeger B.E.S.T. grip, even if you don't use the B.E.S.T. method?


Sort-of. The Jaeger BEST-style grip that I designed years ago, based on the direction of coach Lee, is a fairly extreme example of what I'm talking about. It's not for everyone, I admit, but was what was being taught to the coaches at that time. It's a bit too high for many folks, including me. So there are then intermediate options, like the Yamaha grips or like the lower "BEST style" grip that I designed for Paul last year, and is now the stock grip for the SKY Conquest Advantage riser. 

But the majority of risers from Hoyt, W&W and Samick are still sloped the wrong way and have to be modified for use by the top archers. Makes no sense to me. 

John


----------



## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Would it be so hard to put entry level "comfortable" grips on entry level risers and biomechanically correct grips on high-end risers? They should come that way when you buy them.


Isn't it kinda of like that already (though the grips might suck)? The horizon comes with the curvy fat plastic ergo grip and the formula comes with the thin pointy formula grip.

I actually find that grips like the Jager and the formula have too sharp of an edge to them that ends up digging into my palm.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

As AceHero said "It might be because most people who buy are not top archers and/or don't really know the correct way to place their bowhand into a bow." I think this hits it on the head. Many industries are like this. Motorcycle manufacturers make adequate but not good seats (and many other parts) because they expect certain name brand aftermarket mods to be done by serious riders and those who don't know any better will just go with what they have. Anyone who has bought a computer, desktop specifically, and has much experience with them, usually the first thing they do is pull the video card and the sound card (if they aren't both integrated) and put decent ones in. So the really mystifying thing is that there isn't a bigger market in aftermarket stuff. There are a fair number of sight/button/rest/stab manufacturers, but that critical piece, the grip, is a big market that so far has only a couple players in it. Anybody with some skills and a little start-up capitol could do well. But then again we are so few consumers compared to so many other sports, that it could only really be a side business.

On that note, I am going to buy some putty to try and build up my grip this weekend.
Cheers
ECL


----------



## tecshooter05 (Mar 7, 2005)

samick masters grips are sloped nicely stock


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I actually find that grips like the Jager and the formula have too sharp of an edge to them that ends up digging into my palm.


That's because your hand isn't placed correctly into the grip. When I first showed Paul Jager the grip that he copied for the "BEST Style" grips, he had the exact same reaction. I moved his hand into the proper position, and the light bulb went off over his head. Two weeks later, his line of biomechanically correct recurve grips was born.

John


----------



## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> That's because your hand isn't placed correctly into the grip. When I first showed Paul Jager the grip that he copied for the "BEST Style" grips, he had the exact same reaction. I moved his hand into the proper position, and the light bulb went off over his head. Two weeks later, his line of biomechanically correct recurve grips was born.
> 
> John


So John, what is your opinion of the grip on the Cartel Midas I bought from your brother? How close to or far off is it from the proper shape? I'm still new to recurve and figured that if a grip change/modification is a good idea, I'd like to get it right before I develop any more bad habits.

-Kent W


----------



## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> That's because your hand isn't placed correctly into the grip. When I first showed Paul Jager the grip that he copied for the "BEST Style" grips, he had the exact same reaction. I moved his hand into the proper position, and the light bulb went off over his head. Two weeks later, his line of biomechanically correct recurve grips was born.
> 
> John


What am I doing wrong?


----------



## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> I mean, when a manufacturer's left-handed grip works better for a right-handed archer than their right-handed grips, then we have a real problem.


I've definitely noticed that picking up left-handed bows sometimes, the grip feels much more stable and comfortable than right-handed grips. I thought this was just me being crazy.


----------



## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

tecshooter05 said:


> samick masters grips are sloped nicely stock


Yes, they are the only ones I have seen that are about right. I dont know why Samick don't use the same design on their other models. Getting spare grips in the UK (for modifying, or replacing a botched attempt at modifying) I have found to be difficult for the Korean made bows. Distributers just dont seem to bring that many in, and not for all models. Hoyt is much better in this respect as getting a spare grip for their bows is much easier.


----------



## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

bobnikon said:


> On that note, I am going to buy some putty to try and build up my grip this weekend.
> Cheers
> ECL


And maybe this right here is the answer. Personally, I'd probably modify and build up/sand down whatever grip I got to be exactly right, so it doesn't really matter what you start with because the end result will be custom anyway.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

It does matter what you start with if you don't know how or aren't willing to learn how to properly build a grip. And that's about 80% of all archers out there.



> So John, what is your opinion of the grip on the Cartel Midas I bought from your brother? How close to or far off is it from the proper shape? I'm still new to recurve and figured that if a grip change/modification is a good idea, I'd like to get it right before I develop any more bad habits.


So you got that riser? It's a very good riser. I shot really well with it and enjoyed shooting it. I'd have to see a picture of the grip to remind me, but if it's the blonde colored wood one, then that one I shaped myself, although it's very low. Send me a pic and I can tell you one way or the other.



> What am I doing wrong?


If you're picking up a Jager "Best style" grip or any other grip with a palm side ridge and thumb-side slope away from the archer and it doesn't feel right, then chances are you have your knucles too vertical. Knuckles on your bowhand should be at 45 degrees to the horizon and your thumb should point directly at the target. Pressure point should be the base of the thumb, not the webbing between the thumb and 1st finger.

This is the modern conventional grip in the bow. Having said that, there are some world class archers that deviate from this. Most notably Vic Wunderle. His grip is more of a pistol grip and thumb is rotated away from the target more than anyone else I know. Victor Ruban holds the bow, and to my knowlege, doesn't even use a bow sling. But the majority of archers keep the their knuckles at 45 degrees (or more) and push with the base of their thumb.


John


----------



## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> So you got that riser? It's a very good riser. I shot really well with it and enjoyed shooting it. I'd have to see a picture of the grip to remind me, but if it's the blonde colored wood one, then that one I shaped myself, although it's very low. Send me a pic and I can tell you one way or the other.


John,

Here's a crudely assembled collage of photos showing the black plastic grip that came on the Midas. I didn't put my usual level of effort into taking the photos, but I think you can see what it looks like.








If you think this grip would benefit from modification, what would you likely do to it for starters?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Nope, that's my grip alright. What that is is a Jager moulded grip duplicate from my personal grip that I shot at the 1st leg of the Olympic trials a year ago (on my Axis riser). It's the result of a couple year's worth of trial and error, attempting to create a "low" version of the original "Best style" grip. This is now the stock grip for the SKY Conquest Advantage riser, and I believe a darn good all-around grip for most people to start with. 

It's still based on the Hoyt Avalon plastic grip, but I modified that particular one to fit the Cartel Midas riser. 

Hope it works for you!

John


----------



## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Nope, that's my grip alright. What that is is a Jager moulded grip duplicate from my personal grip that I shot at the 1st leg of the Olympic trials a year ago (on my Axis riser). It's the result of a couple year's worth of trial and error, attempting to create a "low" version of the original "Best style" grip. This is now the stock grip for the SKY Conquest Advantage riser, and I believe a darn good all-around grip for most people to start with.
> 
> It's still based on the Hoyt Avalon plastic grip, but I modified that particular one to fit the Cartel Midas riser.
> 
> ...


Thanks John! My preferred archery shop is run by a guy who seems to know a lot more about Olympic recurve than most and commented when I got the bow on how unusual the grip was. After reading the descriptions on Jager Archery's website and looking at the photos, I had thought that it sounded like a properly formed grip and was all set to give Cartel some kudos for making it right. Looks like I have you to thank instead! 

My 15 year old daughter will be shooting a Cartel Fantom here in the next week or so. If it also fits her riser, do you think that they still have the mold to make another?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Paul can make another, but you'll have to adapt the inner surfaces to match the Cartel. A little filing to get the correct angle, and you should be able to make it fit. Or, you can just get some epoxy putty from the hardware store and copy that one for your daughter, using the stock grip as a base. Chances are she'll need a thinner throat and tighter radius than the grip that's on the Midas.


----------



## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

Is Paul now making grips once more? If so, I'll see about ordering one of those low BEST-style grips for my Luxor.


----------



## hayk (Aug 21, 2012)

Been reading this thread with interest. I have a Win & Win AL1 riser which I have been shooting for 10 weeks now and am wondering what people think of the grip on this - does it need modifying?


----------



## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

hayk said:


> Been reading this thread with interest. I have a Win & Win AL1 riser which I have been shooting for 10 weeks now and am wondering what people think of the grip on this - does it need modifying?


After 10 weeks I think you'd know the answer, as it applies to you, better than anyone else.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Depends on how you hold the grip. Most manufacturer's grips are built to be comfortable when held like a pistol, with vertical knuckles. Unfortunately, this simply is not how most advanced archers grip the bow.

John


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

am I to understand that the BEST grip, for a RH shooter, will appear to be a standard LH grip?


----------



## hayk (Aug 21, 2012)

Sure I get that. When holding my riser, I jam the grip into the vee between my thumb and first finger. I use a finger sling and keep my fingers at 45 degrees to the riser and keep them loose and calm, not holding the bow at all. On my release my bow tilts forward naturally into my sling. What I am wondering is that with this grip, should I be looking at building it up with putty under the base of my thumb sort of like the B.E.S.T. grips? I shot 150+ arrows today at 50M and 60M and my coach is unsure if I should modify my grip. Obviously I'm in Australia so I thought I'd post here to see what you all think. If it helps I can post a photo of me holding my bow.


----------



## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

The problems I've had with my grips were that they were uncomfortable but also that my hand moved in them. A Jager grip goes a long way towards sorting them out.

I've tried high/medium/low Avalon grips, a modified Ergo grip and the Jager. 

I knew I preferred a low grip and I gripped in the BEST fashion so by the time it came to ordering a Jager I'd an idea of what I wanted.

If you are still unsure I'd think your grip is okay as you can't point to a particular issue. 

Still it seems as though you won't be happy till you've tried but I'd buy an identical grip first and modify it. You can then go back to the original if need be.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Modifying grips can be a never-ending process. Just ask Larry! ha, ha. 

It's a slippery slope to get on for sure. 

I'd just say that before an archer starts to significantly modify their grip they should 1) have quite a bit of experience shooting already, so that their basic form has settled down, and 2) know what they are trying to achieve, as greysides said...

There is an excellent tutorial on Youtube showing how one of the top Korean coaches modifies grips for his archers. Again, I ask, if the top coaches are doing this to every stock grip they receive, why them isn't the manufacturer just building them this way in the first place!?!

In 2007, I sought out two grip manufacturers at the NFAA indoor nationals show in Louisville to address this issue, and to see if they would be interested in providing archers with grips built to specifications we had learned from coach Lee while coaching at the JDT camps. The first manufacturer was satisfied with what they were producing (and who can blame them, since they had a pretty good product and were fairly successful with it already) but the second one I approached - Paul Jager - saw an opportunity to build a better recurve grip, and expand his grip line into recurves (he had been producing primarily compound grips prior to this). I gave Paul one of my modified grips at that event and he started working with me to come up with a "stock" grip that mimicked what coach Lee was suggesting an archer should be using with the BEST method. 

Paul worked his "plastic magic" and came up with the first prototype "BEST style" grip. The initial grip was fairly high, but it was based directly off of the stock plastic Hoyt avalon medium grip, and traditionally would have been considered a "medium" grip when compared to earlier low, medium and high Hoyt or Yamaha plastic grips.

A few years later, I started working with Paul to meet the requests for a lower version, and the grip in the photos above is the result of that. What I learned by trial and error is that there is a lot more to building a "higher" or "lower" version of a grip than just simply changing the angle of the heel pad. This lower grip also offers a bit of room for the index knucle to rise up to the level of the shelf, if not slightly above it, as would be necessary for a lower grip if an archer is going to maintain their proper grip position.

Anyway, all of this is not rocket science. Anyone can customize a grip with epoxy putty, and these days there are quite a few 3-D modeling services that can duplicate and manufacture such a grip. Paul just has the most experience with this at this point.

John


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I should add that when modifying or selecting grips, an archer is primarily looking for 2 things. 1) a grip that won't slip in the hand when shot with a relaxed grip hand, and 2) a grip that puts the pressure point in the proper place (i.e., the base of the thumb).

John


----------



## Neo888 (Feb 4, 2009)

The Jager 2.0 lower version style grip just a piece of art in my opinion. I tried all and everything in the Hoyt line, from Ergo, Ortho, GMX to Formula stock grip, also tried to modify with epoxy, also first 1.0 version of Jager, which was closest to what i was looking for but too high for my liking. The 2.0 is just spot on providing the perfect feel for hand position for me, what i even could not reach with weeks of trying to get the perfect shape with epoxy. I am not at all high level of archer, but this grip provides for me such confidence for stable relaxed hand position then nothing else.


----------



## Sparctek (Feb 16, 2012)

John,

What effect does the gentle slope of the grip, i.e. higher left side for a right handed shooter, have on arrow impact at the target?

Thank you,

Jesse


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Neo, the 2.0 is a combination of the low grip I worked with Paul to develop, and an idea that came down through Jim Belcher (originally from his father, as I understand it) to scallop the bottom corner out and give the pisiform carpal bone of the wrist (heel of the hand) a place to go. It's a pretty ingenious design, I do say.

First time Paul tried that, he sent me a box of grips and told me "okay, okay, don't tell my I'm crazy before you try it!" ha, ha. So I did, and I was surprised at how well it worked.

If you look at the way some of the Korean coaches build up the grip, they actually do the same thing, although rather than removing material, they never put it there in the fist place. On many of coach Lee's grips, the lower left corner is "missing" and this gives the heel of the hand a place to index to.

John


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jesse, it just balances out the lateral forces on the grip, that's all. Because your hand isn't "level" when you grip the bow, the grip doesn't need to be level either. If it is, then there is a chance you're pushing on the off-side of the grip (away from the arm) which will result in tension in the hand and wrist (required to hold the wrist in the proper position) to get the bow to aim straight.

All of this has to do with how you position your hand in the grip to begin with. If you hold your knuckles at 45 degrees to the horizon and point your thumb at the target (as you would when properly holding a target recurve) - if you look down at the inside of your palm at that point, the base of the thumb isn't flat. It's sloped from left to right toward the target. The slope on the grip is designed to match this and not fight it.

This works well for most archers who have been coached as to how they should properly grip a target recurve. Some like a flat surface (like Jake Kaminski) and that's all fine and good. But for most archers, this is the shape that's going to get the best results by keeping the bow hand in place and relaxed.

Now, after having watched the RA's shoot up close and personal for the past year, I can't tell you that they are trying to keep their bow hand relaxed. In fact, I could argue that they are intentionally inducing tension in their bow hand (evidenced by Brady's thumb pointing up at the sky and not at the target) and I think I know why that is...

But that's a topic for a "master course" on target archery, I think... 

John


----------



## Sparctek (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks John! That makes perfect sense. The key being a relaxed hand on the grip. I need to work on that. Thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge. I've learned alot just by reading this section of the boards over the last few months.

Jesse


----------



## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdoQ0T3kLWk


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I know this is a newbie question...can anyone tell me if this BEST grip is RH or LH.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Right handed (meaning that it's held in the left hand)


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Ok, that's what I though. Looks opposite to what I'd expect but after reading John's explanation I figured that to be the case.

I was considering getting a different grip but it appears that I need help form a coach with getting grip set...may need to modify the grip some (difficult to get the pressure in the proper location)


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yup, that's a RH Best style Jager grip.

If you hold your knuckles at 45 degrees and point your thumb at the target, you should have the ridge of the grip riding along your lifeline and the pressure point at the base of your thumb. But we all have hand that are different sizes, so a little modification may suit you better. But I'd first try to make sure you have your hand in it correctly. 

Paul's grips (even the ones with the rubber heel pad) work down real nice with simple wood rasps and files available at any hardware store. Those are the same tools you'll use if you go with epoxy putty on a grip anyway, and they aren't expensive, so it makes sense to own them if you're serious about finding the right grip for you.

John


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Before I go to whittling on the grip, I'll need to work on how I grip. I was doing this last night and it seems that the raised side needs to be brought down just a little. But would like some coaching before or as I do that.

I do have all the files I need but was considering a dremel tool with a sanding drum...


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Dremel tool might work. I admit that I worked down that sharp ridge on the left side just a bit myself, when it was all said and done. Just be sure you know what you want before you get the Dremel out, if you know what I mean...!


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I would like to see a manufacturer, or a third party grip provider, design a grip that was modular. You'd have a base layer component that was designed attached to the riser (a different base layer for each type of riser), and then you'd have different top layer options (high wrist, medium wrist, low wrist, flat surface, Jaeger sloped surface, thick throat, thin throat) that would slide onto/affix somehow to any riser's base layer (allowing most archers to be able to quickly/easily experiment with different grip angles and determine which one works best for them. So the archer would need to have different base plates to fit the different risers, but all the base plates would accommodate the same top plates/layer, so if an archer moved from a PSE to a Formula, for example, he could easily use his same (probably customized) grip top plate on the grip base layer of the new riser, instead of having to reinvent his wheel every time.


----------



## gma (Aug 22, 2012)

Great info!

For me as a beginner, I have a problem keeping my hand open and relaxed through the entire shot - I tend to close my hand right as I shoot (something I only discovered when I started videoing my form).
One thing I've been considering is a deep cutaway that runs under the second knuckles (second from the tip of your finger). A deep cutaway would make it immediately obvious if you're gripping simply because there would be nowhere to grip! Could possibly even add something tactile - like the stiff part of velcro in the "cut" for feedback. You would immediately feel if you were touching it and be aware that you've made a mistake - instant tactile feedback. Not necessary for top archers - but more of a training aid.

I'll give it a try when I get some time over the next couple of weeks and let you know how it works.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Larry, the Bernardini and former Hoyt radian risers did have "modular" grips, if you will. Not sure they were that successful. 

Problem with your idea (it's a good idea) is that grip manufacturers like Paul are always trying to keep up with the different risers and which "base grip" they use. For a long time, you could depend on a Hoyt Avalon grip fitting most Hoyt risers, Spig and Best risers. The PSE and Yamaha risers apparently shared the same grip. Nowdays, the Bernardini Luxor and W&W share the same grip. But now Hoyt has a new base grip, and new ones seem to be popping up all the time. You'd have to manufacture at least 6 or 7 different base grips, plus the modular plates that fit each one. 

And even then, someone would take a wood file or rasp to it afterwards... ha,ha.

Yes, it could be done, but it wouldn't be a simple build. Might be fun to try though.

The last two riser manufacturers I've worked with were smart enough to use existing grip base patterns (one adopted W&W and the other the venerable Hoyt Avalon grip base) so that archers can take advantage of the stock, and aftermarket grips that are already available.

John


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

gma said:


> Great info!
> 
> For me as a beginner, I have a problem keeping my hand open and relaxed through the entire shot - I tend to close my hand right as I shoot (something I only discovered when I started videoing my form).
> One thing I've been considering is a deep cutaway that runs under the second knuckles (second from the tip of your finger). A deep cutaway would make it immediately obvious if you're gripping simply because there would be nowhere to grip! Could possibly even add something tactile - like the stiff part of velcro in the "cut" for feedback. You would immediately feel if you were touching it and be aware that you've made a mistake - instant tactile feedback. Not necessary for top archers - but more of a training aid.
> ...


gma,

one thing I do with my students is have the curl all their fingers underneath and use a finger sling. That way, they have no fingers out there to grab the bow with. It's not an easy thing to do at first, but you'll take to it surprisingly quickly.

John


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Dremel tool might work. I admit that I worked down that sharp ridge on the left side just a bit myself, when it was all said and done. Just be sure you know what you want before you get the Dremel out, if you know what I mean...!


Yea, that's why I want to get some coaching before I start doing anything.

Oh, yea, definitely know about dremel issues...(hint, use it left handed due to the direction of rotation)...a trick I learned as a gunsmith.


----------



## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

Fury90flier said:


> hint, use it left handed due to the direction of rotation


I've thought for awhile that Dremel needs to come out with a model that can rotate in either direction.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

John,

I appreciate the history nod! And yes, you point out the thorny details that probably make the modular idea impractical. It would certainly be a civilized idea, though, wouldn't it, if manufacturers' designs standardized on the grip area? If the manufacturers' can get together on an ILF "limb standard", seems like they could do the same with the grip frame.

It might even encourage a more robust riser market - I wonder how many archers are, at some point or other, interested in trying out a different used or new riser, but don't end up buying it, with the main reason (maybe subconscious) being that they don't want to go through the 'grip journey' with yet another bow?


----------



## gma (Aug 22, 2012)

lksseven said:


> john,
> it would certainly be a civilized idea, though, wouldn't it, if manufacturers' designs standardized on the grip area?


igf


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Only problem is that a "standard" grip for all risers locks manufacturers into too tight of a corner in that area of the riser. Sure, you can design around it, but they don't want to have to do that if they don't have to. Probably the bigger reason though, is that they already have 1000's of grips that fit their risers, and are interchangeable between their risers, so they're happy. Most major manufacturers never want to admit that another design might be better than theirs by copying it. There's that too... 

John


----------

