# coaching levels ??



## Big Ragu (Feb 27, 2008)

A good coach doesn't always need to be a "Coach", another shooter that you admire and who shoots well will help raise your game. I can say that for obvious reasons that levels 1 2 3 are all going to be able to break down your form to see if there is any fat to trim, but the biggest part is mental consistency and the higher level coaches will be able to help better with the gap between your ears....lol. I can also say that a really good coach is part shrink and can get resaults by knowing you as an individual and putting together a program that will help you. He or she can explain why this or that is happening in turms you can relate with. hope this helps.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

you make it sound so easy big ragu.....lolo i got a guy now who has got T-P so bad he shakes when he picks up a bow....and hes a shrink..... boy is this guy is fun... but you are 100% correct....im gonna brain wash this guy!!!!. .the x count.............. you can only increase in small amounts, set some realistic goals . your mind will only let you shoot in YOUR comfort zone....get you a few index cards and place them , say 1 in car 1 in bathroom, 1 by the phone, etc and on the cards write things like ....im gonna be shooting 50 xs in 4 mo. or im comfortable shooting 50xs but i can shoot 59... most important is you visualize the arrow going in the exact center of the x before you start your shot sequ. .......


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Don't let the advertisements of level "so and so" or master coach fool you. And stay away from trinket salesmen. Find a successful pro and ask them for their help. If they cannot work with you, I'm certain they will steer you in the rite direction to a skilled person that can


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

A "Weekend at Bernies" does not make anybody a coach. Although Bernie has a masterful insight of the sport and is an awesome coach.

I define a coach as a person having in-depth knowledge of a sport and being able to convey that knowledge to another person.


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## Big Ragu (Feb 27, 2008)

Any one can learn to shoot a bow, but what is archery to most archers? "I will tell you" archery for most is a car part like a carburetor, it is something that they think is a physical action and it all works in a mechanical fashion, they think it can be manipulated physically and once they figure out how the carburetor works then its just a matter of how well you tune it. 

So when I here about guys developing T/P and say they have tried a hinge a couple times but it was not for them i have quiet little chuckel....

Archery to most people that own bows and shoot fairly regularly is a sport that that is very much individual so the thinking behind it for the majority of the ego driven masses is if my score is higher then the next guy I'm a better human being and there for a superior specimen....lol they are in an endless pissing match for dominance and the very same ego that brought them to the competitive level is the same one that destroys them in competition. Why ? 

Well for one reason fundamentals and solid foundation and understanding of foundational skills and mental preparation are critical in competition in any sport, but in archery its not how you grasp the the concept its more about learning to let go of the conscious decision maker during the shot process which for most of us is a huge task, taking a long while of battling your own human nature to control...(or not control depending on how you look at it) ...EVERY THING...lol 

So when picking a coach a person needs to look at a few options Fancy tittles are not always the way to go since big names are big because they can afford to advertise there achievements . your going to pay dearly especially if your foundational skills and the lack of understanding your own issues is limited. 

You don't mix cake batter in a cement truck or contact a Chou Lin monk and ask him how to break boards.

What I'm saying here is the different levels of coaches provide stepping stones and will key in on certain aspects of archery skills and mental prep needed to be a successful shooter. 

Every one in my opinion needs a good foundational coach with a broad understanding but preferably one that is a patient an passionate teacher. 

There is nothing more irritating trying get info from a top shooter or coach that thinks his or her time is more valuable then the students or fans that look up to them and pay hard earned money.

Top shooters are normally a bit selfish during the competitive months because they have to be focused, they don't respond well to trivial questions by Joe shmoe.

As a coach I shoot competitively and my scores always suffer because of it, my mind is on the three students shooting the same match. That is my human nature and I except that reality, it will help me learn to focus more in the future. I hope this lengthy sermon helps.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

J Whittington said:


> Don't let the advertisements of level "so and so" or master coach fool you. And stay away from trinket salesmen. Find a successful pro and ask them for their help. If they cannot work with you, I'm certain they will steer you in the rite direction to a skilled person that can


I agree that the levels aren't always an indicator of ability. Some people don't have a desire or need to deal with the politics of the certifying organizations. On the other hand, going through the cert process is, to at least some degree, an indicator of how much someone is dedicated to teaching within a specific system or organization.

Someone doesn't have to be a "certified" coach to be good, but neither does being a successful at archery automatically make someone a good coach. Teaching is a skill like anything else--a **separate** skill from archery. Being skilled in archery is a good first step to being good at teaching archery, but it doesn't automatically makes someone a good teacher.


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## Big Ragu (Feb 27, 2008)

Warbow said:


> I agree that the levels aren't always an indicator of ability. Some people don't have a desire or need to deal with the politics of the certifying organizations. On the other hand, going through the cert process is, to at least some degree, an indicator of how much someone is dedicated to teaching within a specific system or organization.
> 
> Someone doesn't have to be a "certified" coach to be good, but neither does being a successful at archery automatically make someone a good coach. Teaching is a skill like anything else--a **separate** skill from archery. Being skilled in archery is a good first step to being good at teaching archery, but it doesn't automatically makes someone a good teacher.


 Well said,I could not agree more!


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

It's a lot like golf....some of the best "swing coaches" out there, were never good enough to make it on even the lower level tours, let alone on the Nationwide or Pro Tour. Yet they work with the BEST golfers on the planet!! Some people are better at teaching than playing!!


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## Big Ragu (Feb 27, 2008)

Yes they are born communicators they may be very good archers as well with loads of experience but never made it to the top of the mountain. Normally the most idepth learners are those that struggle for ever and beat down the barriers with tenacity character and knowledge of them selves, in conjunction with the surroundings they are in at the time . Dealing with pressure ...... These folks have more passion for the sport and love of the game and more knowledge of both sides of the finish line then any top pro will simply because of the fact it was not Gods plan for them. They can work all they want and take all the lessons in the world but they wont make it because it is not Gods plan. Not to sound over religious but I believe if I am to be a famous archer I would have done it by now...lol Instead God made me a top level wood carver and a good person as well as a good husband and father.He also made me a very effective archery coach. My students will reach further in this industry then I have , but every once in a while I get thrown a bone ...lol.


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## coachbernie (Nov 23, 2008)

subconsciously said:


> A "Weekend at Bernies" does not make anybody a coach. Although Bernie has a masterful insight of the sport and is an awesome coach.
> 
> I define a coach as a person having in-depth knowledge of a sport and being able to convey that knowledge to another person.


I've got 157 National Champions and a bunch of top level coaches that would argue that.


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## Big Ragu (Feb 27, 2008)

Competitive shooters ? What about average people that want the right information? Archery has been around a lot longer then any living coach or Idealist. I have yet to Visit coach Burnie's class I would like to very much. 

There is much to learn from so many good coaches a wealth of knowledge waiting for us all.

You wanna learn you say? You have a future you say? 

You say you could be the best with a little help?

well for the cost of a new bow completely set up you can learn all you need to know..... then you hear the the breaks squeal like a speeding car about to hit a baby carriage. 

The majority of people (shooters ) are not willing to invest in them selves at all rather rely on the latest technologies in archery equipment to further stimulate their Grey matter and thus propelling them in to the pentathlon of the worlds elite. hehehehehehe ya that works.
The simple fact is that even the finest coaches in the world have not reached the accomplishments that there students have...simply from an ability or physical issue standpoint, a time standpoint , or a financial standpoint. Road blocks that would stop most people will not stop a good archer from being a great coach, they morph in to a bit of an avatar (like in the movie) while inside the head of the student the coach can stimulate inspire and polish the diamond in the ruff to exceed the expectations of both party's previous expectations. 
I have never seen or heard of top level coaches teaching green beginners or children. 

That is the role of foundational coaches.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

coachbernie said:


> I've got 157 National Champions and a bunch of top level coaches that would argue that.


Maybe I should restate - a Weekend at Bernie's doesnt make "everybody" a coach. Not everyone can coach. I know you can and a lot of your students can - but not "everyone" can truly be a great coach. I was in one of your classes at Clyde's Archery over 13 years ago.


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## Big Ragu (Feb 27, 2008)

I believe that most of the coaches success comes from the will and dedication of the student. You can be a pretty good communicator and a fine archer and good get good results from a hungry minded student willing and aiming to please. The great coaches are sought after by the most eager and promising archers who have invested (or are willing to invest) in their education of all things Archery to become the best they can be. 

We all need to start some where.


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2010)

While i think a coaches credentials are important if you guys look around sports most of your great managers/coaches had have marginal achievements or careers.Most champions be it in archery,baseball,hockey,whatever are extreme perfectionists and poor communicators.A great coach doesnt need a million trophies or titles he needs to be a motivator,shrink,and a great communicator.You do not need to be a world class anything to to be a great coach,look at Tommy Lasorda,Sparky Anderson ,etc.The only thing that matters is how you handle whats between the guys ears.


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## Big Ragu (Feb 27, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> While i think a coaches credentials are important if you guys look around sports most of your great managers/coaches had have marginal achievements or careers.Most champions be it in archery,baseball,hockey,whatever are extreme perfectionists and poor communicators.A great coach doesnt need a million trophies or titles he needs to be a motivator,shrink,and a great communicator.You do not need to be a world class anything to to be a great coach,look at Tommy Lasorda,Sparky Anderson ,etc.The only thing that matters is how you handle whats between the guys ears.


Very true!!:thumbs_up

Just get a coach and you will be ahead of the game more so then by going it alone . I can teach a new shooter or an experienced hunter with issues more in one hour then he ( or she ) would learn in ten years of dinking around on their own.
Information is power when used constructively and peace of mind during the entire shot execution is the reward !:thumbs_up:wink:


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

There is a big difference between a coach and a instructor.


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## gonehuntin (Dec 2, 2004)

big ragu said:


> i have never seen or heard of top level coaches teaching green beginners or children.
> 
> That is the role of foundational coaches.


really?


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## Big Ragu (Feb 27, 2008)

gonehuntin said:


> really?


really!


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

coachbernie said:


> I've got 157 National Champions and a bunch of top level coaches that would argue that.


Would you have them confirm that?


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