# Cartel Fantom Riser?



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I admit I haven't been paying all that much attention to the latest equipment offerings but I'm getting ready to start up my classes again and I want to be ready for those people who are wanting to ask me about equipment purchases.

I stumbled across the Cartel Phantom and the first thing I noticed is that it had limb angle adjustment. Generally the sub $200 dollar models don't have limb adjustment. This seems like a real solid beginner riser for the price. Now I expect that the powder coating and the manufacturing detail is a buit wobbly and some of them may need a bit of filing or such to get limbs to fit but overall it looks like a super nice riser. 

What are your opinions about this riser? Looks to me like the beginnings of a go to starter bow?


----------



## wfocharlie (Feb 16, 2013)

There are a bunch of reviews on lancasters website.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

b0w - 

Actually I like the riser.
It's well made for the money and handles well.
The only thing I didn't like was the last few I set up or worked on had effectively no tiller/weight adjustment. 
The limb bolts are there and they do move, but even minor changes stops the limbs from coming out of the riser.
It's not a simple lube the U groove thing, it's seems to be the pocket angle tolerances.
I now recommend that be checked before buying. 

Hopefully, some one will jump in and correct me on that, meaning we just got a bad batch.
BTW - the limbs were usually SF Axiom +.

Viper1 out.


----------



## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Viper1 said:


> b0w -
> 
> Actually I like the riser.
> It's well made for the money and handles well.
> ...


Good assessment Viper, I have the Fantom riser and even though it has tiller bolts, it was essentially like being set on one setting, (I have SF limbs too). Now, I fixed that stuck limb thing a little by taking very small amounts of metal from the sides of the dovetail with a Dremel tool. That freed the binding that was going on and the limbs slides very smoothly. It helped the adjustment range a slight bit more.

I also found, by tightening the limb adjust screws too much, it actually pushes on the sides of the dovetail block causing it to clamp down on the limb dovetail bolt causing it to bind.

Another design fault is the limb angle adjustment screws, it contacts the dovetail block sides directly, (steel on aluminum) and if tightened a bit too much to too often, gouges the sides of the block pretty badly. I guess it'll be OK if you don't align the limbs too much. I put heavy grease on the contact points and it helped ease the friction but still bad design.


----------



## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Half of the JOAD team I coach uses Fantoms, including my daughter. It has a lot of features for the money. I have two problems with the riser:

1. The paint is easily scratched. My daughter has been using her Fantom for two years now and it shows. Definitely doesn't affect how well it shoots.
2. The shelf. Specifically the front corner toward the index finger knuckle. The shape of this area is such that if the archer holds the bow correctly, then the corner of the shelf is touching the archer's knuckle. It can be a little uncomfortable for some, but the real problem is that it leads to slight canting. It's not a huge issue, but I've noticed it in four out of four shooters that use Fantoms.

I guess you could add that it's a cast riser and therefore may not be as strong and may be warped slightly. We do have one riser that needs a fair amount of limb adjustment to help compensate for a bit of warp, but the bow is shooting pretty well now.

If you can get a good deal on one, grab it. In new risers, you might also consider the new SF Axiom + L, which has similar limb adjustment to the Fantom. If you can swing the extra $100, the SF Forged + is a much better riser than either the Fantom or the Axiom+L, likely sufficient for many, many years before you'd want to upgrade.

-Kent W.


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

It's a fantastic riser for the money...very few risers can compete with it. Sure, you can go spend another 100 bucks or so and find something better but then that's not a fair competition/comparision. Dollar for dollar, you won't find another riser that will beat it.

One of our regulars at the range got the Fantom riser and Apple limbs...took him from regular 4H shoots through State- he won his division. We have a few other shooters that have that same riser and they use it for similar competition.

Viper. The issue you had with that riser is a simple fix...radius the divet just a little on the ouside edge. Once the limbs have come on and off enough- it will wear in allowing removal to be much easier. I had the same problem when I first got one for my wife but was able to remedy the situation with a dremel tool.

Just be careful not to take too much off the edge and roll it too far. I personally haven't seen this but someone told me that they got it too loose and the limbs would not stay fully locked in. I think it would take not knowing what you're doing to make that happen...just reporting.


Oh, and when I do have a problem with limbs coming out....I do this: grab the limb where the limb joins the riser---wiggle and push aginst the riser with my thumb (for leverage). Each bow is different so it may take a minute to figure out how to compress the detent and pull at the same time.


----------



## terrancej (Aug 6, 2012)

I've only been shooting about 2 years or so, recreational only, about 500 arrows/week, so my experience is limited...

I started with a Fantom. I choose it because it had all the adjust-ability at a low price. My thought at the time was that I wouldn't really be able to appreciate a higher end riser and might find Archery wasn't my cup of tea. With this in mind I did set some $$$ aside for the "next riser" if this "Archery thing" worked out. I'm also not the type of person who has to have all the bells and whistles - I built up my kit one item at a time.

I've been quite happy with it. The fit and finish seems quite good. Although it is painted, I've had no issues with the finish. I progressed through 22, 26 & 30# limbs and have had no issues with limb fit. The one thing that I have found is that the adjustment for draw weight seems more limited than I had been lead to believe, although I could adjust for tiller. I personally have not experienced problems with the shelf. The Fantom has all the adjustments I needed to learn something about what they did and how they affect the bow. When I initially got it I set it up on a milling machine table and took a bunch of measurements. Although I didn't really know how/what/where to measure specifically, I found my riser to be quite "square" and only off a few thou. At that time I told myself it seemed pretty good for a mass produced cast item, although I was working off general principles rather than specific Archery knowledge.

I've since purchased a Winnex riser and limbs, and yes, I can tell the difference - now. I'm not sure I would have progressed any better/quicker if I had bought a more costly riser initially. For me personally, it was probably good that I bought a riser that I wasn't afraid to fool with in the process of learning. The Fantom is now slated for indoor work. Another point is that a Fantom is easy to sell off since they seem to be quite popular.

FWIW - I initially purchased the Fantom based on statements made in this forum over two years ago when I was starting. One of those statements was from Viper1 commenting on the Fantom at that time. In retrospect I'm glad I listened to Viper. Money well spent.

Regards,


----------



## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

bowbender. I purchased a Fathom two years ago when I first started archery and still shoot with it. I agree with the other posters that for the money (currently $130 at LAS), it offers a lot of value. In fact, I'm one of the folks that posted a review on the LAS website. I haven't experienced the issues relative to tiller and limb pocket adjustments that some have mentioned, but then I don't tinker with my bow very much. And the finish is showing some wear, but then I'm also not too fussy about keeping it pristine. For me, the bow is still very serviceable and for the type of shooting I'm doing it is all I need. Instead, I have invested my dollars on some of the other accoutrements and accessories that go with shooting full Oly. Larry


----------



## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Yeah, I have to admit aside from the mechanical side, (I tend to be picky with metal things, my dad was a machinist) the riser shoots well, I use it daily for indoor form work.


----------



## leschrader (Jun 26, 2012)

I've had one for over a year for students and people that want to try something better than the average "club bow". So far, it's been a great riser. I've only used up to 32# limbs and most of the time it's got 16# limbs, so I don't know if the heavier weight limbs would be OK. The only mechanical issue I've had is that the threaded holes for the limb pocket, tiller, plunger, etc. felt rough, like they would gall and sieze. I used some anti-sieze compound on the bolts/screws and all smoothed out with no problems. The finish is like stated earlier, paint.....it'll show some wear, but that doesn't hurt the performance. It's a lot of "bang for the buck".


----------



## c365 (May 15, 2013)

leschrader said:


> The only mechanical issue I've had is that the threaded holes for the limb pocket, tiller, plunger, etc. felt rough, like they would gall and sieze. I used some anti-sieze compound on the bolts/screws and all smoothed out with no problems.


I had the same thread problems, ran a bottoming tap through them and now their smooth as silk.


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Exactly what I expected to hear.

Slightly less than optimal tolerances and some roughness around the edges. for $130.00 dollars this is exactly what I would expect. A little filing and a dremel tool action and you have a perfectly usable riser. Thanks for all the feedback I feel better informed and will likely suggest this riser for those looking to purchase on a budget.


----------



## OlyShoot (Feb 10, 2013)

*There are solutions to Limb Bolt and Limb Removal Issues*

Viper 1 
It could be a bad batch because some of us Fantom owners have the same problem. But it could be design due to its longer pocket. But the longer pocket could also be an advantage. There is a known problem when attempting to use the tiller bolts at max extension and its due to the angles in the pocket. But there are solutions. See this thread and some of the methods for resolving the angles issue. A short summary is you can shim up the dovetail socket or lengthen the dovetail.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2117616&p=1069854444#post1069854444

I first tried shimming under the dovetail socket with a metal washer, but then the socket put two wear marks on my limbs because the socket became the pivot point instead of the end of the pocket. (Maybe I went too far). Next I chose to go with lengthening the dovetail. This caused only two minor problems. Once, the dovetail bolts became loose after shooting. I fixed this with a dot of arrow hot melt (or you could use a weak thread lock). And the second was on one limb I had the dovetail pressed out just a touch too much and the pin on the dovetail would screech in the socket just millimeters before the clicker would snap. Very nerve racking. Shortening up the dovetail just a touch resolved screech.

There is a countersink on the back side of the limb so even though it seems as though that by lengthening the dovetail there might be less support for dovetail in the limb, in reality there's nothing there because of the countersinking. So the only down side is that the bolt might become loose in use. Hence need for thread-lock or some HM glue. (I'd advise against using CyanoAcrylate glues because I would expect they need higher heat to loosen up.)

I don't have any other issues with the Cartel Fantom other than the grip. But I've got a really large hand so I had to make my own grip. The Fantom has met my need for getting started in all things archery from string making, arrow building, grip making, not to mention shooting. And I'm enjoying my new hobby. If I were to do it over again knowing what I know now, I'd probably go with the SF Forged Plus for a bit more money, plus they are on sale right now on Lancaster.


----------



## JMartin589 (Jul 17, 2014)

I've been shooting the Cartel Phantom for about six months now as my first bow. (With SF Axiom limbs, and then with Hoyt Excel) 
My experience with it has been very similar to the above posts. Shot performance is good and the features are great. However, the paint does chip easily and the grip could be better.
From all the other risers I've tried in this price range I have not found anything else that really compares, and I plan on sticking with my Phantom for quite some time before upgrading since it fits my needs and performs well.

Would happily recommend it to other beginners and intermediate archers.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

We own several as do several of our archers. other than the less than durable paint job-its a great riser for cubs and cadets and newer adult shooters. The best <150 riser I have seen


----------

