# Thoughts on Tiller Tuning



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Most have problems just tuning a bow. Adding tiller tuning is one headache they can do without. Nice plug the shooting machine though.

my two cents.


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## keyman (Mar 22, 2003)

A bow that is out of time, needs to be tiller tuned to be able to compensate for the timing issues. I do find some aim better with tiller tuning but if I make sure and time my bow really well using a variety of methods, I usually can shoot my tiller even with good aiming tendencies.


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## Tlariat (May 11, 2008)

When you measure tiller on a hybrid cam bow, do you measure to the string or use the axle as reference?


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

keyman said:


> A bow that is out of time, needs to be tiller tuned to be able to compensate for the timing issues. I do find some aim better with tiller tuning but if I make sure and time my bow really well using a variety of methods, I usually can shoot my tiller even with good aiming tendencies.


Absolutely!

It is usually a good idea to build the control cable with just barely enough twist to keep it together, so that each twist will change the timing only slightly.



Tlariat said:


> When you measure tiller on a hybrid cam bow, do you measure to the string or use the axle as reference?


Most people will use a straight enge across the axles if the cam standoff to the string is not the same top and bottom.

It probably does not matter as long as you synchronize the cams just right and you are happy with the grip angle. Actual tiller does change the grip angle and the feel in your hand.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

FS560 said:


> It probably does not matter as long as you synchronize the cams just right and you are happy with the grip angle. Actual tiller does change the grip angle and the feel in your hand.


Interesting. I have my elites (Gt500/xlr) set with even tiller and cams synced to each other. I would like the grip to feel more upright, less sloped away from me. I'm guessing I would loosen the lower limb bolt. Is that correct? What effect will this have on the cam timing? I assume nock point will change.

Thanks.


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## jim46ok (Oct 9, 2008)

*Keeping Bow Weight the same*

Yes. Start with 1/4 turn TIGHTER on the top limb, with 1/4 LOOSER on the bottom. This should keep the pull weight the same, and not mess with arrow spine, etc. Not enough? Go 1/4 more. Just note when loosening, don't go past the Mfg. limits. Then bare shaft tune for level bareshaft flight.

Good Luck!


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

Basically very few bows will have perfectly matched limbs. Some may vary just a bit and others by several pounds. When this occurs, bows may feel odd in the way they point and hold, however most will still shoot fine. Tiller tuning for the most part will improve the way the bow sets and aims by changing the grip pivot point but some folks also believe it has a way of improving groups. Personally I think the effect is one in the same since the key to accuracy is comfort. I recently had a set of custom limbs built that were a matched set and I can tell you that it made a tremendous difference in the way the bow aims for me. I would suggest anyone that ventures into tiller tuning, begin by doing it for feel first, since I think this is all it achieves. I have read articles about putting in turns or taking out turns then resetting the knocking point, shoot at a paper plate, and recording the tune on the plate. Then putting in another turn or taking out another turn, reset, shoot, so on and so on until you get the best groups. Personally I have better things to do with my time but for some folks it works or at least they think it does. Either way it is all about feel and confidence in your set-up.


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## X-Shooter-GB (Jul 31, 2008)

jim46ok said:


> Yes. Start with 1/4 turn TIGHTER on the top limb, with 1/4 LOOSER on the bottom. This should keep the pull weight the same, and not mess with arrow spine, etc. Not enough? Go 1/4 more. Just note when loosening, don't go past the Mfg. limits. Then bare shaft tune for level bareshaft flight.
> 
> Good Luck!


Hi Jim, 
I'm new to the whole tiller tuning thing. So my question is what does it really do for the bow? I've heard that it has a lot to do with feel but does it help with group tuning too? 

Also not to hijack the thread but how far away should I bareshaft tune? I just bought some X10 protours and I really don't want to bend one by having it hit the target sideways. I usually just paper tune and then walkback tune and then put my bow in my machine and rotate the nocks tell they are all grouping the same out at 55yds. I've also heard that bareshaft tuning is a really good method for getting the best groups out of your bow, but I have never really tried it and I'm looking to learn a little more about it.

Thanks for the help,
Glen


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## jim46ok (Oct 9, 2008)

*Hi, Glen!*

Good to hear from you. What have you won lately??

When you ask "what will it do for the bow", my personal answer is not so much what it will do for the bow, but for the shooter. As a Champion shooter, you know how important confidence is. A more comfortable bow to hold should help the average shooter. You have the skill and concentration to not be distracted by a little nuance, and still shoot GREAT scores.

I bare shaft tune at 20, 30, sometimes out to 40 yds. At that distance I can see the effect of turning limb bolts as little as 1/16 of a turn or so. Just make sure the bare shaft is the same weight (add tape to simulate fletch), same FOC location, and same spine. (arrow from same dozen, if possible). At least that is what works for me .

Honestly, Glen, you do so well already, and understand the importance of tuning, you must already be 99% there!

Keep up the great work. Whatever you are doing obviously works for you!!!

Jim


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## X-Shooter-GB (Jul 31, 2008)

jim46ok said:


> Good to hear from you. What have you won lately??
> 
> When you ask "what will it do for the bow", my personal answer is not so much what it will do for the bow, but for the shooter. As a Champion shooter, you know how important confidence is. A more comfortable bow to hold should help the average shooter. You have the skill and concentration to not be distracted by a little nuance, and still shoot GREAT scores.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help, Jim.

I believe since I talked to you last I shot our NM state indoor shoot and placed first with a score of 600 with 120x's. It was 2 nfaa 5 spot games. I also shot the Naa indoor nationals. I placed first in both the joad and indoor nationals in the Junior division. I've also shot my first nfaa hunter round. That was a lot of fun. I shot a 549 with my sight marks being of a little.

I think I still have a lot to learn about tuning. I'm always looking for the best way to tune my bows so I can get optimal groups out of the bow. Like you said the confidence is a huge factor. That's what I like about the shooting machine I will shoot my bows out at 60yds and see what the bow is really capable of.

So basically adjusting the tiller is just for feel, and just small adjustments to tiller to get the bareshafts shooting the same as the fletched?

Do you think the bareshaft is a better tuning method than walkback? 

Like I said before I'm just kinda timid to bareshaft tune x10s just because I don't want to bend one. If I get a fletched x10 to paper tune and walk back should it be pretty close that I can bareshaft tune just to fine tune everything? 

Thanks again for the help,
Glen


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## bwlacy (Mar 28, 2009)

I've also hear that adjusting the tiller will tweak the draw length. So if the bow holds better and aims better, you should get better groups. I don't have an accurate enough way to measure the draw length to notice if a 1/4 turn on the limbs bolt affects the draw length.


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## Hosscoller (Feb 10, 2009)

jim46ok said:


> As we are hearing, setting the Tiller is one of the first Tuning tasks to be done.... and the general consensus is to have "even tiller".
> 
> Some bows shoot "sweet" with even tiller, some don't. With Tiller "tuning" the object is to fine tune what your particular bow wants to make it shoot "sweet" and as important, to "hold sweet".
> 
> ...



Here's one guys idea http://www.archersadvantage.com/TipSheets/TillerTuning.htm

I was told to set your bow to even tiller, get yourself a dozen or more paper plates, and number them on the first one write "even tiller" and shoot 3 to 6 arrows at it, then remove it and put plate#2 up and write top limb 1/2 CW turn, which means you have adjusted your top limb 1/2 turn Clockwise, shoot 3 to 6 arrows and remove it and put up plate #3 and put your bow back to even tiller and then adjust the upper limb 1/2 turn CCW and shoot 3 to 6 arrows, remove the plate and put up #4, put your bow back to even tiller, and adjust the lower limb 1/2 turn CW, repeat this process untill you have done the exact same with the lower limb as you did with the top limb. And since you have numbered the plates and wrote on it your upper/lower CW/CCW imformation you will be able to see which adjustment from even tiller gives the best grouping of arrows.............with well executed shots and not so well executed shots, you will be able to see is the bad shots go above or below the group. It worked well for me when I did it, hope it works well for you.:beer:


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