# reading targets



## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

An EXCELLENT program for this is "ArcherZupshot"

Here is a couple of screenshots from a session I had when I started going back to a hinge.

You can see graphically how I was shooting, and statistically as well.

















Remember the thread on foot position? This was with feet planted for all 5 arrows per round.
That crazy lower left target is showing my draw to be a touch short (never thought of it at the time, moving the draw stops to a lower let offspring I would have a softer back wall made the bow just a touch too short! Opening my stance 2-3" fixed it right up... Now I move for each column).

Great info on HOW to read N7709K!!! That knowledge surely increases the value of this app for me!


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

Thanks for the tutorial.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

can you overlay a set of targets a plot say 5 games to see a larger set of patterns? i haven't played with that program at all.. the std dev. is a nice touch- does it track and plot the whole 60 as a single cluster? I know one of the programs(apptitune possibly) allows you to plot groups and will remove the outliers for a better picture of the actual group characteristics


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Why would you want to remove outliers? They count the same as "good" shots - so it's probably a good idea to keep track of them too. I'd rather shoot 10-10-10-9-9-9 than x-x-x-x-x-5.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

eh.. a 6 isn't gonna be a good shot if you are pounding the middle out of the target; something went wrong somewhere and you know something was wrong/went wrong. if you shoot one 6 in 300 arrows at 18m it is far from the norm and involved different circumstances...


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

N7709K said:


> eh.. a 6 isn't gonna be a good shot if you are pounding the middle out of the target; something went wrong somewhere and you know something was wrong/went wrong. if you shoot one 6 in 300 arrows at 18m it is far from the norm and involved different circumstances...


I agree, problem nock or arrow loaded vane down, something weird like that.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

Thanks Jacob for posting this. Its really nice having someone like you putting information on here encouraging other people.

I think you have what it takes. Archery belongs to the person who does the work. You represent your work ethic well.

Thanks, Blue X


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

The program (at least as I use it) plots each game I shoot.
It can also plot each arrow if you number them.
There is other stuff in the analysis mode that I haven't used yet ( like comparing different quivers of arrows... Say your indoor line cutters vs. outdoor skinny arrows).
At the very least, you can take the screenshots and use them as different layers in Photoshop or the like, and make each layer slightly transparent.
I'll play around with it more this weekend and see how it works.
The maker is on Facebook and she can readily answer questions much better than I


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

N7709K said:


> eh.. a 6 isn't gonna be a good shot if you are pounding the middle out of the target; something went wrong somewhere and you know something was wrong/went wrong. if you shoot one 6 in 300 arrows at 18m it is far from the norm and involved different circumstances...


Yeah, but how specifically do you define an "outlier"? Everything outside the 10 ring? outside the 9? Any shot that just felt wrong? How about a bad shot that happens to hit the X? Just exactly how crappy does a shot have to be that you don't count it? 

What I'm getting at is, what is your standard of "far from the norm"? Sure, everyone would probably agree one 6 in 300 with all the rest in the 10-ring is over the line, but how about two 6s, three 7's, seven 8s and thirty three 9s? Isn't trying to explain ALL the bad shots part of what you're trying to do here?

You need to have objective criteria, otherwise you don't get valid data, and I don't know of any objective criteria other than impact point. I recall a bow I had - I used it for a couple of 5-spot rounds and shot something like 55x295, because it was very twitchy. I got rid of in in favor of something that I could shoot 52x300. Got to count those outliers during testing, 'cause they count in real life.

The only other option I can think of is to count only the best 5 out of 6 shots per end or something equivalent, regardless of how good that 6th shot was.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Use the example of shooting a six but drop the avg down to say 290 inner... 285 even. A six isn't normal for either of those score ranges; when you shoot a six there is instant verification as to why it happened- bad shot, broke before at anchor, arrow nocked upside down, equip failure, etc. it doesn't get blown off as oh well, probably shouldn't do that again. But for say a 270 shooter it's not uncommon to have sixes in the mix. 

Where I am at with my game i can discount a six; for someone else they may not be able to.. Yet. Looking at your targets isn't about knowing why each shot printed where it did- it's about getting an idea of the pattern so as to best use your time and resources to bring the groups in. Once you have a direction to move in getting the group size down only takes the needed effort from the shooter. 

For myself: if I shoot a 292 inner I had a weak round and tried to put too many in the middle; if I shoot a string of them I make adjustments based on what I'm seeing. If I shoot a 295 I'm not upset as that will still play, but I start looking into the little tweaks to see how I can bring groups in. If I shoot a 297 I touch nothing and see if those scores continue, if they do I keep shooting and work on making good shots each game. For someone else those numbers will be very different


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

Jacob 
you can simply leave the mis fire out - there are practice as well as scoring rounds - 
I used the program for a good while , It has some outstanding features no doubt - great for clocking arrows no doubt - 
I have found that actual target faces and hand script is of more value to me when working things out and keeping track of training - 
This is the first season I have started keeping track of my physical faces , and the value is obvious now.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I read targets during the season and I find that my first few shots really dictate how the pattern for that spot are going to group, I shoot with a .19 in so after a couple shots the hole in the x is set and then my pin gravitates to that spot for the entire shooting round and even if it is on the edge I can count on the arrow hitting there every shot. For me not trying to fix the problem and aim away from the initial hole is the key and leads to better scoring, if I try to aim away I usually drop a x but if I just let the pin float there I nail that spot the entire round.

This is something I noticed when studying my targets.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

I got stacks of faces going back 5 years or more- pull them out now and then and get an idea of progression- in the more recent faces it's a bit more apperent as to how the different rigs pattern and how different setups print. I don't really bother keeping blue face anymore- not that I shoot it either- but I got 60's from a couple years back and 60's from a couple months back that look identical...

Trick to Vegas is put the first three in the middle  

@mahly- I've talked with her a little bit, got a asked bout some stuff way back when the app was first gettin started. Interesting you mentioned comparing arrow size, that came up when I was down at grivs recently


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## Carbofastdirect (Nov 25, 2013)

Good info


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## fslack (Jan 13, 2013)

N7709K said:


> can you overlay a set of targets a plot say 5 games to see a larger set of patterns? i haven't played with that program at all.. the std dev. is a nice touch- does it track and plot the whole 60 as a single cluster? I know one of the programs(apptitune possibly) allows you to plot groups and will remove the outliers for a better picture of the actual group characteristics


Hi Jacob,

You can create target plots that will overlay, by arrow number, by round, by end, all kinda ways. The Cluster Analysis looks at shots that fall within a calculated std dev from cluster center. (The allowed deviation depends in part on how you define your archery skill in Setup - as Beginner, Intermediate or Advanced - Advanced archers have to shoot tight groups or the app will tell you that no cluster is identified.) The Cluster Analysis is primarily a tool for use in the moment, directly on the scoring screen. The target plots, available in the Analysis section, overlay all your shots, and do not leave out the "outliers." 

As you mentioned in this thread, there's a place and a great reason for both. Of course you need to track even the outliers - for one thing, you are scoring yourself! But in general, as has been noted, if you are pounding the center and you have 299/300 Xs and one 8 - you probably have a form or equipment error which is not statistically part of your performance. It is still important, but not when you are looking for trends. It all depends on what question you are asking. We try hard to give you the tools to answer as many as possible.

OH, btw, APPtitune (a fantastic app containing excellent, concise instructions on how to tune your compound or recurve bow), does not score or plot. However, the instructions in APPtitune can be implemented by using ArcherZUpshot to score and track. They complement beautifully. APPtitune was created by Jake Kaminski, Jesse Broadwater and Greg Poole, and is an absolute goldmine of reliable information.

Cheers!
Fern


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