# Barebow, shooting right



## Radman (Sep 19, 2003)

What does your center shot and plunger tension look like? You are allowed a button.


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## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

Well, there are several different things.

First, have you tuned your bow? Read the "tuning for tens" article that is easily findable through a search here or on google. Once I've done that I've never noticed any difference (well, other than significantly higher scores) between them and my traditional or even primitive bows. 

I also note that I spend a great deal of time working with arrow combination on my traditional bows too. I know of at least one quite good barebow traditionalist that doesn't and his bows do not shoot down the center but he adjusted for for it. A well tuned bow doesn't hit the center for him. This also assumes you are shooting some form of "instinctive" aiming (though what exactly that means can cause a huge argument), if you actively use a point-of-aim system then most just move their aiming point.

Then, especially with the Oly bows being shot barebow you can generally tune them such that your arrow is point on. Typically speaking when this is done you are not tuning for arrow flight, you are tuning for point of aim. I know of a few that have two setups - one point on at 20 yards and the other tune for arrow flight and string walk (not sure if that is legal in FITA or not though). You will have to talk to someone else for that procedure as I do not shoot that way nor am I really familiar with the various rules out there with respect to it.

I'm just saying it doesn't shoot like your longbow doesn't tell me much - have you got a good bareshaft tune on the longbow? Do you use a point of aim or "instinctive" (or something in between)? From the little we know it could very well be that your FITA barebow rig is right down the center and your old trusty longbow is shooting to the right. I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying there is too little information to tell.

And, finally to answer your secondary questions - you find a variety of types of holds. I, personally, use a split finger hold and anchor as you describe when shooting it barebow. String walkers will hold all over the place (most often their fingers not even touch the arrow) and have some *really* strange looking holds to get point on at their distance. You also have face walkers that have lots of strange anchors, yet a good sight picture means they stay point on. This should not impact your right/left impacts unless you are doing it wrong. 

For the most part bow tune (plunger stiffness and to some extent location along with arrow spine), bad alignment/sight picture, or some type of string plucking are going to be the main reasons. Then there are a myriad other little ones that are probably going to be *really* tough to diagnose over the internet (especially without photos and videos). 

It is easy as a barebow shooter to ignore the string at full draw (bad alignment/sight picture) - I know one of the things that shooting sights has forced upon me is learning to have the string become part of the sight picture. Indeed, I've found it hard to transition between the two because when shooting barebow I find the fuzzy looking string gets in the way yet I now have had that fuzzy string ingrained into me enough that it falls right to that spot every time. For a right hander we typically move the string out away from our face and that causes left misses. 

I will also note from personal experience moving to a new setup can get things I thought worked out back into the picture - say plucking the string - because I'm focusing on things other than the shot. This would also cause left shots for a right handed person.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

*cant?*

(I'm a sight shooter, but...) if you cant your bow with the top limb to the right, this could move arrows to the right. This is pretty common with trad shooters so they can get a clearer sight picture.


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## Teucer (Aug 19, 2007)

*Sight picture*

Can someone explain to me by what they mean by proper alignment when shooting barebow. I know this is going to be much different than what it means to me shooting my longbow vs shooting my recurve.

strcpy
To answer some of your questions, I do shoot instinctive, at least I don't "try" to use a reference point. At this point my subconsious is doing it for me. Also I 'll be honest, I haven't set my tune on this setup yet. 

When I add a sight to my setup, my arrows are spot on. When I take the sight off, I shoot to the right. Also when I'm using the sight my anchor is under the chin anchor. No sight, I anchor to the side of my face. So I assume it is an alignment issue. Not really a tuning issue.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Teucer said:


> Can someone explain to me by what they mean by proper alignment when shooting barebow.


I'm not sure it this will answer your question but I will explain what it means to me as a Barebow Recurve face walker. Also, I use a point of aim system, slightly different for each different anchor and the distance/range it covers.

For me proper alignment is what some call the power triangle. That is, the bow arm and both shoulders are in alignment (a straight line). The arrow and drawing forearm are also in alignment (another straight line). The upper drawing arm forms the final side of the triangle from the back shoulder to the elbow.

My four different anchors are all on the side of my face and I cant the bow a little differently with each anchor because of the shape of my face. This allows me to keep the arrow more or less under the right (dominant) eye.

Hope that is of some help,
Dave


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Pete -

A lot of the more serious barebow shooters do shoot three under and use a more formal aiming method. The risers you're playing with (Centra and Nexus) are cut well past center and depending on how you set them up may require a stiffer arrow than you are used to. Yes, a soft arrow will shoot to the right for a right handed shooter. (Sure, it's also possible to just have the arrow set passed center ...)

What Dave said is correct, but I think you're talking about arrow alignment, not shoulder alignment, as the latter is the same regardless of the type of bow.

Optimal alignment means the arrow is directly under the aiming eye, that way there are no lateral calculations to contend with once the rig is correctly tuned. However, with some shooters and some anchors "directly under the eye" may not be possible. While not a show stopper, it's something that has to be taken into consideration on some level to compensate.

Why do I get the feeling you're avoiding me ... LOL.

Viper1 out.


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## Teucer (Aug 19, 2007)

*Thanks*

Viper, 
I wish I could find the time, I usually shoot in my backyard ( a good solid 15 yard range) or whenever I work in my office in Westchester I shoot in the woodlot behind the parking lot (good entertainment for my coworkers after work). One of these days we will bump.  . Yes I was talking about arrow alignment. Do you line up the string with the arrow or right beside it. I would think that would be a good cue that the arrow is inline with the eye ?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Pete -

For "new" shooters, especially OLY types it's best, IMHO. to ignore the string alignment and work on the anchor. Once the anchor is solidified, the string will almost always be in the same relationship to the riser. At that point it's not a bad idea to note that position and do a very quick spot check during the shot sequence.

My barebow (instinctive) anchor doesn't allow the arrow to be under either eye, but I am very aware of the arrow position/offset in relation to the target. It's not a number or distance, just something I've gotten used to. With a FITA bow, the string is typically on the left side of my sight window, just right of the aperture ring. Again, I don't "put it there", that's where it ends up and I do a quick spot check from time to time to confirm.

Viper1 out.


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## Teucer (Aug 19, 2007)

*Big Thanks*

Viper 
Thanks again, sometimes I feel like a doofus asking these questions. I curse all of those years shooting my compound, took alot of the archery out of me :wink: . Shooting a longbow and now shooting a Oly rig is a bit confusing at times but I'll get there. If I can get my Oly rig up to where my longbow is at, smiles all the way.

Thanks to all for the advice given.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Pete -

You're asking good questions, no comment (in public) about the compound stuff  . 

The FITA bows will exact a greater degree of precision on your part, but the rewards are, IMHO, greater as well. Don't be too surprised if your longbow shooting quantifiablely improves as well.

Viper1 out.


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## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

Teucer said:


> strcpy
> To answer some of your questions, I do shoot instinctive, at least I don't "try" to use a reference point. At this point my subconsious is doing it for me. Also I 'll be honest, I haven't set my tune on this setup yet.


Pretty much what Viper said - where you line the string up changes where your arrow impacts. I also agree that unless you are having trouble with it then it is too much a "fine tune" type of thing, however it can cause that type of miss if it is off too much.

"Instinctive" shooters tend to be so focused on the spot that some of those consistency issues are not addressed. Some, like I did, learned to do it without really knowing they were but I will claim more or less "luck" on that as it was a "comes and goes" thing until I learned to be aware of it shooting with sights.

Personally I line the string up on the right side of the arrow point (or the right side of my sight ring). It didn't take much practice for that to just happen and no longer be a conscious part of my shot. It also took a slight change in my anchor to get the string over there shooting barebow (that was the hardest thing to adjust too).


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Well, I was going to come along and offer some help, but I see my friends Dave and Viper beat me to it. Listen to them. They know exactly what they are talking about.

And, when you're in the mood for a good laugh, go to the leatherwall (www.stickbow.com) and do a search for a thread titled "spanked by a gapper". 

That was me (may as well be you) in the spring of 2003. I had just been schooled by a fellow that was shooting a ILF (fita) recurve in the barebow division against me and my "instinctive" longbow. That day opened my eyes to a whole new world of archery, and started my road to learning all the things you are about to find out. 

It's a great road. Enjoy the journey!

John.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Teucer said:


> Viper,
> I wish I could find the time, I usually shoot in my backyard ( a good solid 15 yard range) or whenever I work in my office in Westchester I shoot in the woodlot behind the parking lot (good entertainment for my coworkers after work). One of these days we will bump.  . Yes I was talking about arrow alignment. Do you line up the string with the arrow or right beside it. I would think that would be a good cue that the arrow is inline with the eye ?


Something to consider. If your longbows are not cut to center you are used to aligning your arrow "reference" to the right due to the arrow being about 1/8" out of center.

Most recurve shooters will shoot to the left when they pick up a longbow and most longbow shooters will shoot to the right when they shoot a recurve.

It is a matter of arrow alignment (or how reference the arrow to the target) Even as a "instinctive" shooter you do make references when you sight down a arrow at full draw....

All the other stuff up above is true...making sure your plunger button is adjusted properly and etc etc etc. With all this set properly you will still have a tendency to shoot right until you make the necessary adjustment how you reference your arrow to the target.

Sorry I didn't edit this.

Art


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## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> Well, I was going to come along and offer some help, but I see my friends Dave and Viper beat me to it. Listen to them. They know exactly what they are talking about.


I, personally, wouldn't mind hearing your advice either - of most of us here you are one of the few that has gone that far down the road of competition.



> It's a great road. Enjoy the journey!


The only thing here to point out on my end is that this is the biggest truth. For me the journey is more important, I'm not one to worry overmuch about what my final score is compared to others but what mine is compared to my last.

To try and make a comparison - we look at the drive to be an Olympian (of which I can only talk about in an abstract point of view, limbwalker can tell you the Real Thing). I do not have it, I'm happy being spanked by a gapper if my "instinctive" score is a good one for my shooting style, an Olympian probably isn't. When shooting ... normally less precise methods of aiming... you have to simply live with adjusting aim and larger groups. 

I also usually shoot 28 or 410 in shotgun for the same reason - my final score isn't as important as my enjoyment per time I pull the trigger. I will also agree that some of my choices are intentionally gimped - that is I do not shoot venues that require perfect scores to be competitive, I do not enjoy the pressure (I get plenty of that at work). 

*shrug* in some sense this has gone far beyond the initial question but is still tied to it. How much left? Is the "fix" something you are willing to do? In my case I know how to improve my scores with a traditional bow yet I will not, it destroys the journey for me. I will fix it with an Olympic Bow - that journey is where that becomes relevant. A similar decision will also be made here in how far you want to work on your accuracy vs how strongly you are tied to your current shooting method. 

But that isn't something we really need to know to answer your question - it is something you have to know to decide what advice to follow.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> if my "instinctive" score is a good one for my shooting style


Ah, statements like that have waged wars on other "traditional" archery sites over the years... ha, ha. Not here though. 

Each archer just has to decide what's most important to them. 

For example, I enjoy shooting all three styles of traditional archery - longbow (shot "instinctively"), fita barebow (string walking and conscious gap), and fita recurve, or Olympic (obviously with sights, clicker, etc.). They each offer their own challenge, and I would easily get bored if I only shot one style. 

Having said that, the challenge of achieving high scores with a barebow was one that intriuged me after seeing what was possible with such simple equipment. So I made the decision to learn to consciously aim, and to use more capable equipment with tuning adjustments (fita, or ILF recurves). This is what eventually led to my trying the Olympic recurve. However, for me at least, the journey stopped there as I left the compound bow behind back in '87 and decided then that I did not enjoy shooting them nearly as much as traditional bows.

The great thing about archery is that there is a style and a competitive arena for everyone, regardless of interest or ability.

John.


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## sax_man_al (May 28, 2009)

*Arrows going right*



Teucer said:


> I am shooting a fita rig barebow and I consitently shooting to the right. I am shooting split finger, anchoring to the corner of my mouth. I usually shoot longbows and I'm dead on with them. What should I adjust or just shoot more and let my mind figure it out. Do most barebow shooters shoot three under ? I'm using an elevated rest, so I'm trying to adjust to that as well.


Hi, I can hazzard a pretty good guess as to what is happening. I have just bought a new bow, and gone through all the tuning which I hate!

It is very likely that your pressure button (if you have one) or rest if not, causes your arrows to be too close to the body of the bow (assuming you shoot right handed). When you put the arrow on the bow, look from behind, and the point should be offset out to the left by around an eighth of an inch.

Ignore the pressure of the pressure button, just make it 'firm', and screw it in further until the arrows shoot straight and true. You will find a sweet spot where the arrows fly nicely, try going a turn either way from this to fine tune it. It's important to do this with very little wind. Try it at different distances to fine tune, as results are exagerrated at longer distances. This is the 'centre shot'.

As I said before I've actually just gone through the same, a pressure button is the only good way of setting the centre shot.

If you are really keen then you can go on to fiddle with the pressure button tension using bare shaft tuning.


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## Teucer (Aug 19, 2007)

*All better now*

I'm going to put this under just a little patience required. I've been shooting Hill longbows for a while now so getting in position with the recurve took some adjusting to say the least, but very much worth the effort. I feel like a machine shooting this bow. It is such a pleasure watching the arrows drop on target. So what's all the talk about Hoyt bows not good enough for barebow. Puhlease. The bow is like a rock after the shot. 
Thanks all for the help.


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## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

*barebow*

I love my longbow and olympic recurve barebow and my freestyle fita bow, all have their challenges and I shoot as my mood suits..right in line here with Limbwalker. Shooting right of the bullseye is an alignment problem I have had with my barebow. I finally got my anchor set and my sight picture correct to eliminate it, with the bow properly tuned its a matter of setting up whatever it takes (SIGHT PICTURE) to make a good shot. With each of my bows, they have that challenge, each one a little different sight picture. I think a solid anchor is probably the most important part of that mix..IMHO. Garrie


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