# Collapsing/ coming out of posture?



## Txfeatherflinger (Aug 15, 2021)

So i've been shooting a bow for about 20 years or so, but never really improved. I was always "good enough" to kill deer at sub 30 yds. Last year I had target panic really bad (stuck low), and started really working on my form. I'm shooting a lot better, but occasionally I'll throw an arrow like 3" low at 20y. Almost feels like im dropping my bow arm in anticipation of looking at where arrow is going.

Anyone have any experience with this? Typically the last arrow in a group.



http://imgur.com/T9qakbL


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## 3FeetofFresh (Feb 3, 2017)

If it’s usually the last arrow, it’s most likely simple fatigue. Maybe try turning your limb bolts out half a turn and see if the issue goes away? Or, rest longer before shooting the last arrow of the group. As arms fatigue, it is just harder to physically hold the bow up and the tendency is to shoot low.


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## 1rolltide86 (Aug 15, 2021)

Rushed shoots tend to happen the more you shoot for sure. I would recommend dialing your bow down for those longer practice shoots. Fatigue is a real thing for sure.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Txfeatherflinger said:


> So i've been shooting a bow for about 20 years or so, but never really improved. I was always "good enough" to kill deer at sub 30 yds. Last year I had target panic really bad (stuck low), and started really working on my form. I'm shooting a lot better, but occasionally I'll throw an arrow like 3" low at 20y. Almost feels like im dropping my bow arm in anticipation of looking at where arrow is going.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this? Typically the last arrow in a group.
> 
> ...


Tape camera phone to a ladder. Set camera phone lens at arrow height on the ladder. Slide ladder far away enough, that the camera phone can record a video of you, HEAD to TOE, camera phone can see the ground, can see your shoes, can see all of you, and can see all of the bow.

Fire 5 shots on video. Start to finish. The video will show EVERYTHING that you are doing correctly, and everything you are doing DIFFERENT on shot #5. POST to YouTube. Provide a public link.


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## TgreenPrep4Life (Aug 25, 2021)

Txfeatherflinger said:


> So i've been shooting a bow for about 20 years or so, but never really improved. I was always "good enough" to kill deer at sub 30 yds. Last year I had target panic really bad (stuck low), and started really working on my form. I'm shooting a lot better, but occasionally I'll throw an arrow like 3" low at 20y. Almost feels like im dropping my bow arm in anticipation of looking at where arrow is going.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this? Typically the last arrow in a group.
> 
> ...


As stated by other members, fatigue can be the issue you're having. If you're practicing with your hunting bow at higher draw weights you will tire and your consistency will decrease the longer you shoot. Set a limit on the number of arrows you are shooting. For target specific shooting a lower poundage bow will help maintain consistency for longer periods of shooting. One thing to consider is your arrows. Do you have your arrows numbered? A lot of times a dozen arrows will have at least one to two arrows with flight dynamics that will be different then the rest. If you're consistently shooting one arrow low and off horizontally it could very well be that its the same arrow with a deformation. Such as improper fletching, weight issues or alignment imperfections. Its not uncommon for an arrows imperfection to be looked over and cause discouragement. Make sure you have all the same grain weighted tips inserted, check arrow straightness, inspect fletching's and look for differences such as the helical direction or misplaced alignments. Make sure the nocks and arrow lengths are the same. Consistency is key! Hope this helps.


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## Txfeatherflinger (Aug 15, 2021)

Sorry for the delayed response, was dealing with some health issues. Here’s 4 arrows. Curious what opportunities for improvement are available form-wise.


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## Txfeatherflinger (Aug 15, 2021)

Bump


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Txfeatherflinger said:


> Sorry for the delayed response, was dealing with some health issues. Here’s 4 arrows. Curious what opportunities for improvement are available form-wise.


This is your problem RIGHT HERE.










If you need to do this to get past peak draw weight,
time to drop the poundage via the limb bolts
to the absolute minimum. IF a 70 lb bow, drop down to 60 ls.
If a 60 lb bow, drop down to 50 lbs.

This is NOT how you draw a compound bow. Serious.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Txfeatherflinger said:


> Sorry for the delayed response, was dealing with some health issues. Here’s 4 arrows. Curious what opportunities for improvement are available form-wise.


Simple test for draw weight.
Sit in a straight back dining chair.
Get both legs straight, while sitting in the chair, so this means yup, BOTH feet are off the floor, and zero bend in both knees.

Means you cannot LEAN forwards, cannot lean backwards, cuz if you do, you will fall out of the chair.
Don't do THIS while sitting in the chair as well.










If you cannot level draw the compound bow, even at the minimum draw weight setting,
get new limbs and drop down to a lower peak draw weight. If 70 lb limbs set to 60 lbs,
and you cannot level draw the bow, no leaning forwards, no massive leaning forwards,
if you cannot level draw the bow with level shoulders....get a 60 lb peak draw weight bow
and drop the pounds to 50 lbs.

What the heck is LEVEL draw a bow? Don't every body draw this way, grimace the face,
tuck in your right elbow,
lean way forwards, and low draw your release hand across the bottom of your neck,
when your head is leaning backwards, while you HEAVE back?

THIS is a level draw, for a compound bow.






Try drawing your compound bow just like Dudley, and drop the draw weight lower and lower
until you can level draw your bow.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Txfeatherflinger said:


> Sorry for the delayed response, was dealing with some health issues. Here’s 4 arrows. Curious what opportunities for improvement are available form-wise.


AFTER you find the draw weight where you can LEVEL draw the bow to full draw,
JUST like Dudley






Then, we can work on your other form issues. Yeah, HOW you get to full draw matters a WHOLE bunch.
The way you get to full draw now, is holding you back from reaching your TRUE accuracy level.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Txfeatherflinger said:


> Sorry for the delayed response, was dealing with some health issues. Here’s 4 arrows. Curious what opportunities for improvement are available form-wise.


So, the DOWNHILL pointing arrow full draw position.










YOu lean WAY WAY backwards, and your LEFT armpit is BEHND the left ankle,
when you POINT the arrow Noticeably DOWNHILL. So, you will have LOTS of high misses,
when in a tree stand, aiming at your deer, up in the treestand, while leaning BACKWARDS, to kill something on the ground.

YOu need to learn how to lean FORWARDS, when you point an arrow downhill, like this lady.
In your case, the bow riser needs to come FORWARDS 6-7 inches. That means you gotta BEND at the belly button. If your tree stand has a railing, then LEAN FORWARDS past the railing in your tree stand (or pretend your tree stand has a balcony railing) and get the upper half of your body (left armpit) FORWARDS of your left ankle...like this lady in the red Shirt.



FORWARDS armpit (your left) needs be FORWARDS of your left ankle,
when you point an arrow downhill.



So, if u CAN't lean forwards, when you point the arrow downhill,
drop the draw weight say 10-15 lbs LOWER (yeah, 15 lbs less draw weight means a new bow, or least new limbs)
and
drop the draw 1-inch SHORTER, and it will be EASIER to lean forwards,
like this lady. Your accuracy will go UP, when you have downhill arrow pointing shots.


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## Txfeatherflinger (Aug 15, 2021)

Wow. Thanks. That’s a lot of info. Wasn’t expecting all of that. 

I can drop weight by about 12# with the switch weight cams and limbs out. I’ll see about going down to 26” on draw. 

flr what it’s worth its not usually that hard coming back. I lost about 20% of my body weight in 3 months due to health issues and it robbed me of most of my strength. I knew that would likely be the first thing noticed, but it’s where I am currently and I wanted to give an honest representation of my current state.


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## Txfeatherflinger (Aug 15, 2021)

Question- how does the downhill aspect work on level or ground blind shots?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Txfeatherflinger said:


> Question- how does the downhill aspect work on level or ground blind shots?


So, shooting in a ground blind (in a chair),
so shooting on level ground....It's not the angle of the ground...it's the ANGLE of the arrow.

So, get the left armpit FORWARDS of the left ankle, when the ARROW is pointing downhill.



She is standing on "LEVEL" ground, but she is on a stone balcony and the ARROW is pointing HARD downhill,
so she has to lean forwards, quite noticeably.

So, if YOU are on "LEVEL" ground, and the arrow is DEAD LEVEL...then, you want your HEAD centered between your ankles, like this.



Trailerdog (AT username) is standing on LEVEL Ground in both of these photos.
LEFT photo, the arrow is dead level, and his HEAD is centered between his ankles.

RIGHT photo, doctored, he is still on level ground, but he is now aiming at a target below shoulder height.
So, swing your hips, both butt cheeks AWAY from the shooting line, so the upper half of your body can HINGE forwards (left armpit FORWARDS of your left ankle), and then the upper body will swing FORWARDS, like leaning over a balcony,
and the arrow will point downhill.

What NOT to do???? Do not do THIS.



LEFT pic example is GOOD, for a level arrow.
RIGHT pic example is BAD, for a downhill arrow, cuz when you hinge from the shoulder, and just DROP your bow arm,
you gonna miss high...cuz when you ONLY swing the bow arm from the shoulder, the peep just moved farther away from your eyeball, and the sight marks are no good any more.


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## Txfeatherflinger (Aug 15, 2021)

Gotcha. Holy smokes this is a lot more technical than I anticipated. I love it.


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