# String Walking



## Bandman72 (Aug 25, 2009)

I'm new to shooting traditional and have been shooting mostly what I'd call instinctive with below average results. At 15 yards I might get 5 of 10 arrows in a paper plate. Then today I read about gap shooting and string walking on stickbow.com...went outside and presto!!! Using the point of the arrow to aim, and walking down the string about an inch...hit the plate 29 of 30 times at 15 yards. The real magic came at 32 yards where I could hit the 8" plate more than half of the shots. 

Seems that good shooters like to shoot instinctive at close ranges, then revert to some type of gap shooting at longer ranges. I've also read that you can't use three finger under grip or gap shooting at some shoots...don't really understand why. It seems to help me out...alot. Maybe it's a short cut...maybe not. Time will tell.

Are there many people out there that gap shoot and string walk to gain accuracy?

Pearson Cougar 7050 47# @ 28" AMO 62" shooting 3 fingers under the nock. Anchor is index finger on the corner of my mouth, thumb on my jaw.

Bandman72


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

choice of aiming method is more about what feels best and is working for you, they all work but some methods work better for others, some stay with one aiming method and others like myself have learn't them all, which makes me adaptable for many shooting situations as I like to shoot marked Field rounds as well as unmarked 3D.

I tried Stringwalking and found although probably the most effective unsighted aiming system you could ever learn, it does take some understanding of Bow tuning, good form and some practice to get precise crawls, next year I will do a little more work on learning this method but at the moment it's tourney season and I'm shooting very well with gap method.

I suggest you give them all a fair try and see what's working for you.


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## Jimmy Blackmon (Sep 9, 2010)

Here are a couple of videos that might help get you started if you want to tinker with it.

Gapping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgm-oErUEQM

Stringwalking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTnXgUlY8Ro


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

steve morley said:


> choice of aiming method is more about what feels best and is working for you, they all work but some methods work better for others, some stay with one aiming method and others like myself have learn't them all, which makes me adaptable for many shooting situations as I like to shoot marked Field rounds as well as unmarked 3D.
> 
> I tried Stringwalking and found although probably the most effective unsighted aiming system you could ever learn, it does take some understanding of Bow tuning, good form and some practice to get precise crawls,


I'm like, Steve. I like to shoot at just about anyhting at any distance my arrow can travel...so I taught myself 3 different aiming techniques to accomplish that.

You really need to know what your goals are if you're open to choosing a particular aiming technique based on those goals.

An aiming technique should be based on your goals, ability and personality.

There is no one correct way to shoot a bow for everyone.

So what are your specific archery goals?

Ray :shade:


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

not all good shooters switch - Rick Welch for example shoots instinctive no matter what the distance - and the same applies here I shoot instincdtive no matter how close or how far the target is - I never give distance a 2nd thought - and it is a VERY consistent way to shoot - for example - in the first two rounds of the IBO this year - I scored the exact same score as last year.


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## Bandman72 (Aug 25, 2009)

We have a draw hunt in Oklahoma that is open only to traditional bow hunters...no sights, no releases, ect. The area is know for monster bucks. I inherited the old recurve as listed in my first post and started entering the draw. At first, my goal was simply to shoot it well enough to have a chance at harvesting a deer should I be drawn. LOL!!! After shootin it a bit, I started to understand...shooting traditional is alot more than pullin out the bow a couple weeks before the hunt, then killin' a deer. I couldn't believe how much more challenging it was to shoot accurate than a compound.

So, first thing I did is call a huntin buddy for some tips. He grew up shooting a bow, but is self taught and hasn't played much with tuning and/or various shooting techniques. He shoots instinctive. With his help, I got my shooting down to around 12" groups at 15 yards...sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse.

Then I was invited to a 3D shoot in Paris, Tx at Archers for Christ. What a blast! 30 targets, 25 yards max, all unknown distance. One target was a running deer moving from right to left. To make a long story short...I love shooting the recurve and am going to keep shootin it as long good lord lets me.

My goals now...I still want to shoot well enough to kill a deer at reasonable distances (25-30 yards max) but additionally I want to consistantly hit the 10 ring on those 3D's! I like the beauty and tradition of the wood bows, but am not opposed to modern take down styles. If carbon arrows are gonna help me be more consistant than a cedar arrow, then carbon it is. I really want what is gonna help me shoot most consistant. The same can be said for shooting style...what ever style helps me be most consistant at 3D AND hunting is what I plan to do. But I've only been shooting recurve a couple months ...that hasn't been determined yet. 

I posted to get a feel for how many people instinctive shoot compared to how many people use some type of aiming. Seems like most instinctive shoot which temps me to shoot instinctive...but my recent experiences at the range show that I may be much more consistant taking aim as a string walker.

I'm headed to On Target Archery in Canton, Tx this week to meet with a pro for some tuning and shooting advice. Can't wait!

Bandman72


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Bandman72 said:


> My goals now...I still want to shoot well enough to kill a deer at reasonable distances (25-30 yards max) but additionally I want to consistantly hit the 10 ring on those 3D's!


Both those goals pretty much coincide with each other. Since those distances are fairly short...than there isn't a great need to learn String Walking. What you may want to do is learn Point of Aim or Gap and get your Point On Distance close to your average shot distance. You can do that by changing your anchor point and finger orientation on the string.



Bandman72 said:


> If carbon arrows are gonna help me be more consistant than a cedar arrow, then carbon it is.


At the distances you mentioned of 25 - 30yrds. max, there won't be a huge difference between wood and carbon...as long as the wood arrows have similar spine and weight tolerances. The difference with wood is that it takes more time and effort to find matching arrows than it does with carbon.



Bandman72 said:


> Seems like most instinctive shoot which temps me to shoot instinctive...but my recent experiences at the range show that I may be much more consistant taking aim as a string walker.


Instinctive Aiming has it's advantages in many hunting circumstances....especially at close range but most of the competitive target archers use a more conscious aiming technique.

My personal all around favorite aiming technique is Gap...which after time can become very instinctive like and an archer does have the option of allowing it to become totally instinctive if they just allow their subconscious to take over what the conscious mind has learned.

Ray :shade:


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

A well made and cared for Cedar arrow is just as consistent (within it's batch) and accurate as a carbon - carbon has the advantage of always being the same - no matter where or when you get it - and they are MUCH stronger - so in the end they are less expensive to shoot and easily replaceable.

If you can consistently hit the ten ring on 3D - you are the next world champ - most guys are lucky to average an 8 on each target - and most World Champs are averaging just a tad over 9 per target regardless of aiming techinique.

Aiming is a small fraction of the shot. I shoot instinctive and have outshot top gap shooters (Rod Jenkins for example), top String-walkers (Ty Pelfry for example), and others - I have also been beat by people using other methods - there is no one method that is always better.

I personally believe overall - for a hunter - the best method is instinctive - for you never have to think about distance - you look at what you want to hit and you shoot - simple as that.

Ranger B shoots all sorts of styles and I saw that he posted that he thinks he will score better at the upcoming worlds by String Walking verses whatever method he used to aim for the Trad Worlds - we shall see how that works out - I suspect the scores will be about the same or that the score for the string walking will be lower - but I could be wrong. I hope he scores good - but I don't think the aiming method matters that much - it all boils down to your mental frame and your form. If anything - I believe at unmarked and unknown distances that are greatly varied - any conscious aiming method where you have to try and quess yardage will have a disadvantage over subconscious aiming.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> If anything - I believe at unmarked and unknown distances that are *greatly* varied - any conscious aiming method where you have to try and quess yardage will have a disadvantage over subconscious aiming.


Considering the key word '*greatly*', I have to disagree. 

In typical 3D shoots than I might agree...but in most typical 3D shoots...the target distances don't vary *greatly*. A true test would be a typical field shoot where the targets can vary from about 10yrds. to 80yrds. or so. 

Every archer estimates yardage. The difference, as with other aiming aspects, is that it happens at the subconscious level for some archers.

In most field archery tournaments where the distances do in fact vary *greatly*...I can guareentee that the majority of top shooters will be judgeing distance consciously.

Ray :shade:


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

what I mean by greatly is anywhere from 5 yards to 40 yards - anything more than 40 is for the most part not a hunting distance


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## Bandman72 (Aug 25, 2009)

My point on is about 32 yards shooting with 3 fingers under and anchoring index finger in the corner of my mouth. String walking is what I tried to help make point on aiming for shorter distances...15 yards = 1 inch below the nock...20 yards was about 3/4 inch below...25 yards was about 1/2 inch below...32 yards was point on. Hmmm...I thought string walking was indeed for shorter distances. 

The club where I shoot has a max of 25 yards for 3D traditional...and I don't really expect to shoot over 35 when hunting...maybe instinctive is the way I need to go. Last week the winner scored 250 on 30 targets. He was shooting instinctive.

Meeting with a pro Wednesday to check out my bow, arrows, and shooting.

Thanks to all for the advice! Will take it all into account while finding my way. 


Bandman72


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

would never work for me - I can't tell the difference between 25 yards and 30 yards - look the same to me - unless the targets were side by side


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

On IFAA unmarked 3D the distances do vary 10 to 60 yards and I dont see any Instinctive shots dominating this IFAA 3D game.

I've heard people say in the past nobody can consciously measure distance accurately, yet the top compounds consistently shoot perfect scores on IFAA unmarked rounds, yes they have faster bows but being 2-3 yards out will put you out the pro ring.

The only time I struggle estimating distance if it's a difficult shot playing tricks with the eyes like light into dark shots or steep up/down etc, this I think more to do with me sometimes doubting myself not executing the shot with 100% confidence but I think these problems can affect all, sighted, Gap and Instinctve alike.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I know when I first started shooting 3D I always shot low on large targets like Elk and Moose - I think that my brain was so used to shooting deer size targets that it assumed that these targets were actually closer than they were.


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## Van/TX (Jul 20, 2008)

If a target 30 yards away is shot for 25 yards you will miss even with the fastest trad bow on the market ;-)...Van


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## fotoguy (Jul 30, 2007)

If you are interested in string walking Scott Antczak has a video out called Modern Traditional. He just won at IBO World Championships and his video is all about string walking. 


Lee Vivian


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Van - I know - that is why I shoot instinctive.


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## Jimmy Blackmon (Sep 9, 2010)

sharpbroadhead - you singled Redbow out here causing him embarrassment and now you're doing that to Rod and Ty. Are you trying to run people off from IBO shoots? These guys are my friends, good people, and don't deserve this.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I indeed called out Redbow for all the past comments he made about instinctive shooters and the 3D archery in the past, but that is done and over and I am good and I hope he is too - but I know - Black Wolf also saw all those comments made in the past.

I am not trying to embarrass Rod or Ty - I don't even know Ty - and Rod seems like a nice guy to me. I only mentioned them because Rod is a well known gap shooter and Ty is a well known string walker - and I shoot instinctive and just said that I scored higher to illustrate that insinctive can be just as effecitve or more effective - I did not know that I shot so poorly that it was an embarassment to score lower than me. 

Frankly, instinctive gets a bad rap in these forums and I happen to love to shoot this way and will try to promote it whenever possible. It is funny - whenever someone shoots well instinctively - the nay sayers then claim that they really don't shoot instinctive - it is really sickening. 

Back to the embarassment - I am not embarassed that I was beat by three guys in my class and two guys in the hunter challenge championship shoot off - one for sure was a string walker - Scott Antzak - I am not sure how Mr. Vogel aims - but they both beat me and I am not at all embarassed by that - why should Rod Jenkins or Ty Pelfry feel embarassed because I shot a higher score - and why should you think that they should feel embarassed - is it because I shoot instinctive? I don't get it.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Oh - and I will readily admit that I was trying to give Redbow back a little of what he dished out - and that was wrong - sort of like an "i told you so" thing - I should not have done that.

But I never intended at all to embarass Rod or Ty


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Rod almost didn't shoot because he knew he wasn't prepared. 

His shooting clinics and Safari Tuff products have been in such high demand that he hasn't had time to practice, not to mention he was involved with another video recently. He's won two IBO World Championships and tons of other tournaments, so it's not like he has anything to prove. He shot anyway--he loves to shoot, he's a great ambassador for the sport, and an all-around good guy.

Heck, I knew I wasn't ready either, but shot anyway. I didn't even make the shoot-off for the Hunter Challenge, but I had a great time. I really enjoyed the mixed team competition--at least I didn't blow it on that one.

Chad


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## Jimmy Blackmon (Sep 9, 2010)

You are so defensive about this instinctive thing that you just passionately write things without thinking them through. We want people to come and shoot, especially folks with a wealth of knowledge about the sport like Ty and Rod, but you have used them to illustrate your point that instinctive is equal to or better than their techniques. Maybe it is at times but your data is flawed. Here is the why behind my post. Rod shot about 5 times prior to IBO Worlds because he was on the road teaching clinics and running his business, but he loves the sport so he shot. Ty has also been consumed but he bought tickets the night prior to the shoot to come and join the fun. So I admire them for shooting despite not being on the top of their game yet now they get used as an example. Do you think they will want to shoot next year? The guys at the top of their game won this year. If you want to compare with more accurate data use them.
RU class and 32-man shootdown winner - Scott Antczak (stringwalker)
Recurve class and 2nd in 32-man shootdown - Paul Vogel (Gap shooter)
The Master Class and last year's 32-man shoot down champion - Ryan Ramsey (Gap shooter)
Longbow Champion - Dave Wallace (Gap shooter)
Female RU Champion - Jennifer Stoner (Gap shooter)
I don't know how the other champions shoot but I would be willing to bet that most of them use either point of aim or gapping.

I'm not on here to defend this style of shooting, but your example is a poor one to prove your point. Instinctive shooting is a very good method and you use it quite effectively, but you don't need to jump on every thread where someone is interested in learning about other aiming techniques and start a war over instinctive vs. other methods. Don't get caught up in my saying "start a war" by you merely getting on the thread and arguing against the other forms of shooting it starts an argument - just like it has on multiple other forums. If you really don't care how others shoot then let them try other things and decide for themselves. I don't try and sell gapping or stringwalking I just think other archers should be aware that there are other methods that might benefit them. That's all Ken.


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## Jimmy Blackmon (Sep 9, 2010)

Bandman72 said:


> I'm new to shooting traditional and have been shooting mostly what I'd call instinctive with below average results. At 15 yards I might get 5 of 10 arrows in a paper plate. Then today I read about gap shooting and string walking on stickbow.com...went outside and presto!!! Using the point of the arrow to aim, and walking down the string about an inch...hit the plate 29 of 30 times at 15 yards. The real magic came at 32 yards where I could hit the 8" plate more than half of the shots.
> 
> Seems that good shooters like to shoot instinctive at close ranges, then revert to some type of gap shooting at longer ranges. I've also read that you can't use three finger under grip or gap shooting at some shoots...don't really understand why. It seems to help me out...alot. Maybe it's a short cut...maybe not. Time will tell.


Bravo! Congratulations on finding a way to make you more accurate and your shooting more enjoyable. Keep an open mind and try everything. Most of all welcome to the great sport of archery. It's a lot of fun tinkering with various methods of shooting and tuning. It's a journey. Once you think you have something nailed down you'll find something else to work on and then go back to the first. Happy shooting.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ranger B said:


> I just think other archers should be aware that there are other methods that might benefit them.


100% agree!!! :thumbs_up

I'll also add...if anyone does the research they will find that there are inherent advantages and disadvantages to the different aiming techniques under specific circumstances. If anyone wants to be competitive in a specific competition...it would be wise to research what the majority of champion archers use for their aiming technique. By acknowledging those advantages or disadvantages is in no way saying or implying that an archer can't do it any other way.

Ultimately...it's the archer that has to make the choice and than do the best they can with it without making excuses. IMO...there is no excuse...if you made the decision to choose a particular aiming technique over another.

Ray :shade:


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Ranger - if you read the first post - instinctive is brought up by the poster and that is why I commented on it - and if you read what I posted - you will see that I did not attack other methods of shooting and pointed out that both Antzak and Vogel beat me. 

The major issue with instinctive is that the majority who try this type of aiming - combine it with HORRIBLE form - you know the face your target, bend at the waist and twist, stick your fanny out and release as soon as you hit anchor (if they hit it at all). I promise you - if gap shooters, string walkers, or anyone else shot with this form - they would be just as poor of shots as the instinctive shooters that shoot this way.

Rick Welch has won numerous championships and tournaments - and he shoots instinctive - but if you watch his form - it is solid and his mental discipline is incredible. I firmly believe if more shooters would separate instinctive aiming from the lousy form that is considered the norm of it - you would see a lot more people who aim instinctively winning tournaments. 

Like I said in one of the posts above - the aiming method is a tiny part of the shot - the form and excution of the shot along with the mental state of the shooter at the time is far more critical than how he chooses to aim his bow.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> Like I said in one of the posts above - the aiming method is a tiny part of the shot - the form and excution of the shot along with the mental state of the shooter at the time is far more critical than how he chooses to aim his bow.


Aiming...when you look at what is exactly involved...really isn't a tiny part of the shot with what is involved in order to accurately hit the target consistently.

Form can include: stance, spinal/postural positioning, gripping the bow, gripping the string, drawing the bow, joint alignment, anchoring, rythem and releasing/conclusion.

Aiming can include: visually focusing on a target or marker, yardage estimation, adjusting elevation, adjusting windage, adjusting for wind drift (if applicable), adjusting for target or shot elevation, breathing and timing.

If any of the form or aiming aspects are not consistent...accuracy won't be consistent. Consistent accuracy involves being consistently accurate with every one of those aspects...and as you can see...there are about just as many aspects with aiming as there is with form.

Depending on how your brain is wired, your goals and your abilities should determine how you use each one of those aspects.

Some archers consciously run through a form sequence as they draw and shoot there bow...while others prefer to allow their subconscious to control it...and the same thing applies to how an archer aims.

Ray :shade:


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Black without good form - no aiming method will work - with good form - any aiming method will work


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> Black without good form - no aiming method will work - with good form - any aiming method will work


Good form will not make up for poor aiming nor will perfect aiming make up for poor form...when pin point accuracy is being considered.

If an archer's form is perfect yet their aiming is off even by a little bit...they won't hit the 12 ring at 30yrds. in most cases. The same is true regarding an archer's aim being perfect and their form being off. They both may miss the bullseye by a few inches....but the fact is...they both missed the bullseye.

Many Native peoples shot with floating anchors and inconsistent form and were successful because in many of those cases the distances were close and the target size was large for them to be effective. Stretch those distances further or require pin point accuracy...and there success in hitting their target would crumble.

Just because an archer has good form does not guareentee accuracy. They also have to have good aiming skills no matter what aiming technique they are using if they want to hit the bullseye consistently.

Ray :shade:


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

you are missing my point - I am saying that with good form - it does not matter how you aim - there are great shooters that aim many different ways - but they all have good consistent form - you will never see an accurate shot with lousy form - no matter how they aim.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Aiming choice is one small part that makes up a champion, great form and nerves of steel, plus they will never stop giving a 100% even when their performance is only running at 80% of their full potential.

I respect all good shooting Target, Field, 3D, instinct, Gap whatever method, for me it's just a pleasure to be in the company of somebody maybe having the best shooting day of their life.



For those making a point at the expense of others is like some guy climbing Everest without Oxygen, and then saying I did it the hard way so I'm better than you, even if he didn't make it to the top.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sharpbroadhead said:


> you will never see an accurate shot with lousy form - no matter how they aim.


I'm not missing your point at all.

You will also never see an accurate shot with lousy aiming - no matter how good their form is.

Ray :shade:


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

steve morley said:


> For those making a point at the expense of others is like some guy climbing Everest without Oxygen, and then saying I did it the hard way so I'm better than you, even if he didn't make it to the top.


That's only if they actually think they are better for doing it the hard way. 

In competition....the only way you better your opponent is when you better their score....fair and square.

Ray :shade:


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## ozzypop (Sep 23, 2010)

Good thing nobody tries to learn anything on these threads.


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## ozzypop (Sep 23, 2010)

Bandman72 the world of archery is huge. Just go to youtube and look. I love to watch the Olympic archers talking about consentration and form. I also shot a simple longbow. It's a wide open world enjoy it.


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## Andy Pawlowicz (Apr 18, 2011)

Van/TX said:


> If a target 30 yards away is shot for 25 yards you will miss even with the fastest trad bow on the market ;-)...Van


 Not necesarily true, if your point on distance is in the mid fifty yard range the gaps for 25 and 30 can be very close. I primarily stringwalk, so I'm fairly good at aiming with the arrow point. I put a dot low on my target bales and aimed point on at that dot with my finger touching the nock, at 25yds the arrows hit about 30" high, at 30yds the arrows hit within a couple inches. Arrow speed is just a bit over 210fps.


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Bandman72 said:


> *I'm new to shooting traditional *and have been shooting mostly what I'd call instinctive with below average results...........
> 
> Pearson Cougar 7050 *47# @ 28"* AMO 62" shooting 3 fingers under the nock. Anchor is index finger on the corner of my mouth, thumb on my jaw.
> 
> Bandman72


What I've picked to comment on is highlighted in bold print above.

Assuming a normal drawlength, I think 47# is too high a poundage to start learning form with. You need to be able to totally discount any problems with poundage and concentrate totally on form. You also need to be able to shoot many arrows at a session to ingrain the techniques. A lower poundage is very useful for this, say mid-30's. It's easy enough build up poundage once your from is solid.





> My point on is about 32 yards


I'm surprised your PO is so low with that poundage. Of course it may suit your purposes perfectly but shorter carbon arrows will give you much more distance.


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## Van/TX (Jul 20, 2008)

Andy Pawlowicz said:


> Not necesarily true, if your point on distance is in the mid fifty yard range the gaps for 25 and 30 can be very close. I primarily stringwalk, so I'm fairly good at aiming with the arrow point. I put a dot low on my target bales and aimed point on at that dot with my finger touching the nock, at 25yds the arrows hit about 30" high, at 30yds the arrows hit within a couple inches. Arrow speed is just a bit over 210fps.


So, are you saying that on a 3-D course using your stringwalk method (placing arrow tip on bull) that you would only be off by 2 inches if mis-judging by 5 yards in the 25 to 30 yard range?...Van


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> I put a dot low on my target bales and aimed point on at that dot with my finger touching the nock, at 25yds the arrows hit about 30" high, at 30yds the arrows hit within a couple inches.


If I read that right, it looks like a difference of around 28" between 25 and 30 yds. That's a complete miss on all but the largest targets if you are aiming at the "10". From a 3-D perspective anyway.

Chad


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## Andy Pawlowicz (Apr 18, 2011)

No, if I am gapping my gap for 25 and 30 are almost the same. I should have said that they hit within a couple inches of the arrows shot from 25 yds.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Ok--first arrows hit about 30" high of the dot, second arrows within a few inches of the first arrows. I misread--my bad.

I think it varies--how well you can judge yardage, and your set-up. A friend of mine is a gap shooter. He dropped to 5 gpp and was telling me all the virtues of light arrows for target shooting...then we shot a 3-D course and he shot under nearly all the longer shots. He's an excellent shot, the lighter arrows just weren't the cure he had expected.

Different strokes for different folks. Experiment and see what works best for you.

Chad


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## Van/TX (Jul 20, 2008)

Andy, with a 55 yard point on do you actually use a 30" gap at 25 and 30 or do you stringwalk with the same crawl for both distances? I guess that was my question. You just might talk me into going lighter and faster ;-)...Van


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

My stringwalking setup shoots at about 215 fps. I tested out the drop using my 20 yard crawl and walking back starting at 10 yards. I could hold point on from 10-20 and pretty much nail the bullseye everytime. Using the 20 crawl at 25 yards would drop me down about 3-4 inches. The 20 crawl at 30 yards gave me about 10 inches of drop. Now, if I shot a 25 yard crawl at 30 yards and held for the top of the ten ring I would expect to stay in the bottom of the kill zone. And, reasonably, it's not that hard to judge whether a shot is closer to 20 or 25 or 30. Or if you're not sure you can split the difference.

To the OP, find the method that works the best for you and gives you the confidence you need to succeed. Not everyone is wired the same. Some folks get a lot of anxiety and lack confidence without a hard aiming reference. Some find using a reference is too distracting and detracts from the shot. The good thing is you can try the method the fits you best and than work on mastering it. Aside from some shoots it doesn't make a difference what method you use. 

A word on stringwalking also. If you take the time to master it SW is a truly accurate way to shoot. It takes some time to get a good tune and figure out the variables but when it is mastered its deadly. I shot 3D stringwalking for a bit this spring and averaged out at 10 points per target from 40 yards and in at shoots that scored 12-10-8-5. Using regular 10-8-5 scoring I still averaged better than 9.5 per target. It can work very well if you put the time into it.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

If you are consistently averaging a 9.5 per target - you are the next IBO World Champion no matter what class you decide to shoot in.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

sharpbroadhead said:


> If you are consistently averaging a 9.5 per target - you are the next IBO World Champion no matter what class you decide to shoot in.


Actually, he's the current IBO champion in Modern Longbow.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

steve morley said:


> I tried Stringwalking and found although probably the most effective unsighted aiming system you could ever learn, it does take some understanding of Bow tuning, good form and some practice to get precise crawls, next year I will do a little more work on learning this method but at the moment it's tourney season and I'm shooting very well with gap method.


Seems to me that string walking essentially is sighted method of shooting. It is calibrated way of adjusting the elevation of your bow string as the back sight and using your arrow point as a crude but highly effective front sight. The fact that some string walkers use adjustable plungers to make up for the variations in spine caused by the varying power strokes caused by string walking shows that in some cases it might be simpler to use a sight but that that string walking is a primarily legal method of gaming the sight classes in FITA field.

Still, string walking is pretty neat, and watching an expert string walker nail targets at radically different distances really is impressive to me.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Actually, he's the current IBO champion in Modern Longbow.


I forgot to mention that he also won Yankton last year, so I guess he has an IFAA championship under his belt too.


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## Jimmy Blackmon (Sep 9, 2010)

Yep. He does it all and he's a darn good guy to boot.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I SW for FITA 3D, FITA outdoor and FITA field. It is an incredibly accurate means of aiming when shooting over a wide variety of distances, especially marked rounds. For short range work such as hunting and certain 3D the instinctive (or memorized sight picture) form of aiming can be extremely accurate. The further you get from the "normal" shooting ranges of 15-30yds the more difficult it is to maintain that standard of accuracy.

A good test for this would be to take an instintive shooter and ask them to shoot two specific marked field shots, the 5m "bunny" and then the 50m 80cm target. Each get three arrows. I think the results would be very interesting.

-Grant


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

cool - he is from Wisconsin too - I did not recognize the nickname - awesome shooting. It looks like an average of 8.75 at the worlds that is awesome shooting under the pressure of the worlds. Tal the guy standing next to him seems like a fun guy too. We both were joking and encouraging each other in the shoot off.

Straight8 is your longbow shooting 215 fps? That is really - REALLY fast for a longbow - if so - what type of longbow is it. When we talked at the practice range I did not even notice your bow.

Also - my brother lives in Elkhorn and is a member of the Ojibwa Bowhunters - if you can make it to their pig roast shoot it is a blast.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Str8 Shooter said:


> To the OP, find the method that works the best for you and gives you the confidence you need to succeed. Not everyone is wired the same. Some folks get a lot of anxiety and lack confidence without a hard aiming reference. Some find using a reference is too distracting and detracts from the shot. The good thing is you can try the method the fits you best and than work on mastering it. Aside from some shoots it doesn't make a difference what method you use.
> 
> A word on stringwalking also. If you take the time to master it SW is a truly accurate way to shoot. It takes some time to get a good tune and figure out the variables but when it is mastered its deadly.


:thumbs_up :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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## Andy Pawlowicz (Apr 18, 2011)

Van, the 30" gap is why I don't gap shoot very much, shooting 30yds with my 25yd crawl stringwalking hits about 7" low.


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## Jimmy Blackmon (Sep 9, 2010)

For those interested in SW here is a video I threw together a couple of days ago as I set up my rig for New York.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1vNBgAn_go


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Here is my question about string walking - doesn't it effect the arrow flight - i mean - if you take a bareshaft and shoot it string walking grabbing the string at different locations - does that effect the arrow flight - will the bareshaft fly the same no matter where you grap the string? If not - wouldn't a broadhead amplify the differences if you choose to use this style of aiming for hunting?


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## Van/TX (Jul 20, 2008)

Andy Pawlowicz said:


> Van, the 30" gap is why I don't gap shoot very much, shooting 30yds with my 25yd crawl stringwalking hits about 7" low.


Thanks Andy. Which supports my statement about shooting a 3-D target for 25 yards when it's actually 30 even with a very fast trad bow. It's virtually a "miss". 7 inches vs the 2 inches I thought and was hoping you were talking about.:wink:...Van


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## Andy Pawlowicz (Apr 18, 2011)

Ken, for hunting I bareshaft tune at my 25yd crawl, then tune broadheads at 25yds. I get good broadhead flight from my 20yd mark on up. Anything closer than 20yds I use my 20yd crawl and just hold low. My fingers are never more than an inch down the string from the nock, and my hunting tab is marked so I can feel my 20yd mark without looking.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

pardon my ignorance - but by "crawl" do you mean where your fingers are on the string? What happens if an animal is at 30 yards or 40?


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## Bandman72 (Aug 25, 2009)

Greysides...I've given some thought about trying a lower pound bow...I shoot often...6-7 times per week...can draw it fairly easy...but also am not to proud to try a lower pound bow to work on form. I'll give it a try.

The 32 yard point is is with 3 finger below...it's longer with split. Haven't really nailed down the split distance but it'd be somewhere around 45.

Thanks to all for posting! I liked shooting my compound, but traditional hunters are the ones havin' fun! Instinctive, gap shooting, string walking, glove or tab....I was looking for the "right" way to shoot when I started this post and since then through the responses on this thread and shootin with locals the last couple days I have discovered that there is no "right" way. As I go to bed tonight...all I can think about is shooting more tomorrow! :wink:


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

J. Wesbrock said:


> I forgot to mention that he also won Yankton last year, so I guess he has an IFAA championship under his belt too.


Jason a small correction, it was 2009 world Bowhunters and chris came 2nd to UK's Graham Holmes in Bowhunter div and Scot Antczak won Barebow div, met them both and two great guys, I had lot of respect for them both as I dont think they ever shot IFAA 3D before so 2nd and 1st is outstanding. Graham is very tough to beat, he has lot of 3D and Field experience and has won around 7-8 IFAA World/European titiles.

http://www.ifaa-archery.org/results/2009/2009WBHC_final.pdf


Jimmy great video, wish you lived closer as I struggled trying to learn stringwalking (I was more accurate gapping), I will try again in Autumn and rather than just give it a couple of days I'll give it a good few weeks trial


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

Steve is correct. I did finish out second at the IFAA Worlds. Graham "The Dark Lord" Holmes is one helluva shooter. IFAA 3D is shot on unmarked 3D out to 60 yards where everyone shoots from the same stake. Learning to prepare for that shoot is probably the first time I really started to pay attention to figuring out some type of aiming system. When the shots start stretching out past 40-45 yards it pays to use whats in front of your eyes. 

Ken,

I shoot Whippenstick bows made by Ken Rohloff out of Krakow, WI. He builds some of the finest bows I've ever shot. My longbows are both about 51 pounds at my drawlength (a hair over 28"). I'm shooting 410 gr. Victory arrows at about 204-205 fps. That's with a hunting quiet setup, too. That's what I love about the bows Ken builds. They're quiet, smooth, easy to shoot and they have loads of performance. My next one is gonna be a two piece takedown recurve with a woven carbon backing. The Inferno. It's his 50's style recurve with a longbow type grip and really stable, high performance limbs. It should be easy to transition back and forth and it'll be great for travel. 

Great vid, Jimmy!

Back to stringwalking. The tune does change a little as you crawl up and down the string. You end up having a range where at one distance you'll have a weak arrow and on the other end a stiff arrow. In between you'll have an arrow the flies very well. A shooter needs to figure out where the majority of their shots will be and try to get the sweet spot of that range at those distances. For a field shooter you'll probably want the sweet spot to be between 30-55 yards. For a hunter or IBO style 3D shooter you would want a really well tuned arrow at 15-30 yards. It's really a matter of just shooting and adjusting until the flight is good where you need it.


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Bandman72 said:


> ...I've given some thought about trying a lower pound bow...I shoot often...6-7 times per week...can draw it fairly easy...but also am not to proud to try a lower pound bow to work on form. I'll give it a try.


The main thing is to be comfortable, able to hold the poundage while you refine your aim, it shouldn't cost you a thought. For me, that's at a (surprisingly) much lower poundage than I can pull with reasonable ease. Local SWers are shooting quite low poundages as long as they can get the PO distance they need...50m/55yards. Over here field is a target game not a practice for hunting, accuracy is everything.

A lower poundage bow is a good way to get a good release too but for this I'd be thinking 20-24#. The US olympic team at one point were using 10# bows. IMO, once the basics are mastered, form and equipment fairly well under control, it's all about the release. The front end can be holding in the red/yellow area but the mind/back end screws up and delivers a black/blue. A consistent, rather than perfect release is key, again JMO.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

sharpbroadhead said:


> Here is my question about string walking - doesn't it effect the arrow flight - i mean - if you take a bareshaft and shoot it string walking grabbing the string at different locations - does that effect the arrow flight - will the bareshaft fly the same no matter where you grap the string? If not - wouldn't a broadhead amplify the differences if you choose to use this style of aiming for hunting?
> 
> pardon my ignorance - but by "crawl" do you mean where your fingers are on the string? What happens if an animal is at 30 yards or 40?


The tune does vary with crawl, but if you have a plunger you can tune that out. Nocking point is also a bit of an issue, I mostly just run it on the high side and that works well.

When the target gets further away your fingers get closer to the nock until you reach your point-on distance.

-Grant


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## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

Bow tuning with string walking is sometimes more experimenting with grouping than shooting the bareshaft. My bare shaft out of my bow shows a weak shaft nock high about 3-5" out of the group. the grouping is very tight with this set up and the left right correction as I
crawl up the sting is minimal. But thats just my shooting, as they say "mileage may vary". Hope I didnt give away my secret...lol.:wink:

Great vid Jimmy. See you at the worlds. Gar.


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