# Rumors from the ASA @ the Championship ????



## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

OK so I will start one, I have heard that there is a good chance the ASA will be coming to NYS in 2020 !!! Also heard they may be involved in an indoor tournament in NYS. We will see in the coming days or weeks........God I hope what I have heard comes true.:wink:


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

As rumors go.... I sure would be happy to see that one be true. 

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


----------



## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

Well the third rumor I heard has come true, the Championship will be at Metropolis as you can see by the schedule they released yesterday.


----------



## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

Do we have a 2019 IBO schedule? Just curious how many conflicts there will be...


----------



## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Forgive me if this gets long winded... Yes there is some talk of ASA pushing north, not my place to say what is rumor and what isn’t. What I will say is that there are some clubs in NCentral Pa and southern tier NY that have been working their tails off to bring the ASA format to the area with very minimal support from the area shooters. I live about smack dab in the middle of where the Pa and NY ASA state championship shoots were held this year, about 2 1/2 hours to either shoot. Both places did a great job changing courses around to more of an ASA style. The Pa shoot drew maybe 60 or so shooters and the NY shoot was about half that. 
Moral of the story is if you won’t come out and support those working their asses off to get us a better option in the area...don’t ***** when the ASA pulls back out due to lack of participation! Just My Thoughts, I won’t comment further on the subject..


----------



## arrowblaster (Feb 9, 2004)

Maybe more advertising! I hadn't heard of the Pa and NY championship until it was over. Gotta be some word of mouth around or something.


----------



## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

Forgive me for not showing up for the PA championship. I did manage to make it to the one held at Bear Lake R&G Club. A few words of advice to BOTH the NYS and PA maybe try not to schedule your events when Ohio has theirs. I shot the Ohio ASA Northern Division and I talked with people who said they had NEVER heard of NY or PA having any ASA events, if they had known they would have tried it. I didn't know about the NYS event until 2 days before and the club that hosted it is one of my "Likes" on Facebook so advertisement was minimal, the same can be said about the PA event and both were held on weekends that Ohio was putting on events.

Most guys in this area are IBO shooters so many of them don't understand that your events don't play by all of the ASA rules ; NO SPEED LIMIT. Also most don't want to pay an ASA membership fee just to shoot one tournament. I appreciate that you guys are trying to get the ASA started up here but you have barely begun, give it some time and effort. Lets be honest both events that NYS and PA put on draw LESS people than a local club shoot will draw. Also lets not confuse PA and NY ASA events that are in their second year with an ASA NATIONAL event. There are a lot of shooters in the NE that will travel to Central NY for a National event.

Thanks for your efforts and please don't stop now !!!!


----------



## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

Davik said:


> Do we have a 2019 IBO schedule? Just curious how many conflicts there will be...


McKenzie ASA Pro/Am Tour 2019 Schedule

Schedule Location

Feb 21 - 24 Foley, AL
Mar 21 - 24 Phenix City, AL
April 25 - 28 Paris, TX
May 16 - 19 Augusta, GA
Jun 20 - 23 London, KY
Jul 18 - 21 Cullman, AL
Aug 15 - 18 Metropolis, IL


----------



## lazyhubby70 (Jan 10, 2012)

I've been hearing a rumor since TN state shoot 3 weeks ago and then heard several times at Cullman......Open B is becoming an all unknown 40 yard class.....but I can't find anybody to officially confirm.


----------



## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

first leg of IBO Triple Crown is scheduled for May 17-19 2019... interesting.


----------



## bowjoe1800 (Sep 8, 2008)

Several Pros unhappy with the May tournament scheduled the same weekend as the IBO 1st Leg.
Manufacturers should not be very pleased either.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

bowjoe1800 said:


> Several Pros unhappy with the May tournament scheduled the same weekend as the IBO 1st Leg.
> Manufacturers should not be very pleased either.


Yeah, in a perfect world= it wouldn't happen, but the summer archery schedule is very full with ASA/IBO/NFAA/WA/USAA/USAT/OPA. "Someone" is going to get inconvenienced no matter what, and with Known Pro drawing more Pro target shooters than ever, it's only going to get worse because now ASA doesn't only have to look at IBO schedule, they also have to look at target archery schedules as well and how many Known shooters will be affected if they schedule on "target" dates. 

In the mid-1990's I shot ASA and IBO on the same weekend (Kentucky and Indiana if I recall correctly) ASA made a provision for us to shoot our Saturday round on Friday, so we shot 20 ASA in KY on Fri, then traveled to IBO and shot all 40 on Saturday, then came back to finish ASA on Sunday. Inconvenient to be sure, but not impossible under the rules and exceptions of the two organizations at that time.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bowjoe1800 said:


> Several Pros unhappy with the May tournament scheduled the same weekend as the IBO 1st Leg.
> Manufacturers should not be very pleased either.


You can bet that the major players knew about the impending schedule BEFORE it ever went public. I'm fairly confident that the ASA leadership do not operate in a vacuum.


----------



## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> You can bet that the major players knew about the impending schedule BEFORE it ever went public. I'm fairly confident that the ASA leadership do not operate in a vacuum.


I was really thinking it was an oversight. Now it's a waiting game to see who "blinks" first and changes their schedule...if anyone.


----------



## T&A (Sep 26, 2013)

I think it’s called the straw that breaks the camels back


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

T&A said:


> I think it’s called the straw that breaks the camels back


Explain?

Except for about 15 Pro men and maybe 8 Pro women, there's not that much cross-over between ASA and IBO. To be perfectly blunt, for 20 shooters out of 1800 that are going to have to make a decision, I don't think ASA "should" care whether they are on an IBO date or not, because they're going to come out ahead compared to IBO, who's attendance and payouts are pathetic in comparison to ASA.


----------



## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

Several clubs in the Buffalo and Rochester NY area are interested in hosting ASA style events. Look for more of these style shoots in 2019. I will be working hard the next few months at putting a schedule together. The ASA Federation/ASA Pro-Am is committed to making archery grow by offering their customers a quality event which can accommodate nearly everyone's preference. Speed limits are in place to hopefully prevent injuries from being over bowed for younger and senior archers. To discourage sky drawing for everyone's safety also. The Federation Director and Mike Tyrell have allowed the New York ASA Federation an exclusion to the speed limit to introduce shooters to the ASA scoring and style of events. I encourage shooters to contact me to discuss the ASA in New York along with any clubs in the New England area and Canada interested in hosting a qualifier. There is a great potential for growth in this region. Any one that knows me, knows my desire for archery and my ability to talk-lol
Regards, 
Rudy Abersold 
ASA North Region Director


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

NYS REP said:


> Several clubs in the Buffalo and Rochester NY area are interested in hosting ASA style events. Look for more of these style shoots in 2019. I will be working hard the next few months at putting a schedule together. The ASA Federation/ASA Pro-Am is committed to making archery grow by offering their customers a quality event which can accommodate nearly everyone's preference. Speed limits are in place to hopefully prevent injuries from being over bowed for younger and senior archers. To discourage sky drawing for everyone's safety also. The Federation Director and Mike Tyrell have allowed the New York ASA Federation an exclusion to the speed limit to introduce shooters to the ASA scoring and style of events. I encourage shooters to contact me to discuss the ASA in New York along with any clubs in the New England area and Canada interested in hosting a qualifier. There is a great potential for growth in this region. Any one that knows me, knows my desire for archery and my ability to talk-lol
> Regards,
> Rudy Abersold
> ASA North Region Director


Good luck to you. I shot a couple local ASA Federation qualifiers recently and unfortunately, they didn't draw much attendance. I think 3D shooters don't attend because they are qualifying for an event in GA, and they probably aren't going anyway, but I wish IBO faithful would give ASA a try because it's a much better run organization and it offers so much more for the shooters than IBO.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

The rumor that perked me up (being a geezer and all) was the inclusion of a known distance class for Senior Masters. If they stall that much longer I'm gonna have to lobby for an 80 and older class!


----------



## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

carlosii said:


> The rumor that perked me up (being a geezer and all) was the inclusion of a known distance class for Senior Masters. If they stall that much longer I'm gonna have to lobby for an 80 and older class!


They are testing that rumor in Texas next year...if it's successful, it will be implemented nationally year after next.


----------



## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

nestly said:


> Explain?
> 
> Except for about 15 Pro men and maybe 8 Pro women, there's not that much cross-over between ASA and IBO. To be perfectly blunt, for 20 shooters out of 1800 that are going to have to make a decision, I don't think ASA "should" care whether they are on an IBO date or not, because they're going to come out ahead compared to IBO, who's attendance and payouts are pathetic in comparison to ASA.


That is true...however many of the manufacturers offer up a good sum of money in terms of Contingency money for the shoot AND Shooter of the Year...and some of their best horses in the stable would not be eligible if they miss a shoot.


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

shawn_in_MA said:


> That is true...however many of the manufacturers offer up a good sum of money in terms of Contingency money for the shoot AND Shooter of the Year...and some of their best horses in the stable would not be eligible if they miss a shoot.


This ^^^


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

nestly said:


> Explain?
> 
> Except for about 15 Pro men and maybe 8 Pro women, there's not that much cross-over between ASA and IBO. To be perfectly blunt, for 20 shooters out of 1800 that are going to have to make a decision, I don't think ASA "should" care whether they are on an IBO date or not, because they're going to come out ahead compared to IBO, who's attendance and payouts are pathetic in comparison to ASA.





shawn_in_MA said:


> That is true...however many of the manufacturers offer up a good sum of money in terms of Contingency money for the shoot AND Shooter of the Year...and some of their best horses in the stable would not be eligible if they miss a shoot.


I know many of the Pro's that compete in every ASA haven't shot all the Triple Crown shoots in some years. How many _more _ are very happy that they have no choice than to skip an IBO shoot? There may be as many Pro's glad to skip a IBO shoot as there are those disappointed. 

Compare the quantity and quality of vendors at the 7 ASA tournaments to the those at all the IBO tournaments and you'll have an idea of what the market value is of each tournament and consequently each organizations "value". There are many vendors that haven't bothered going to IBO tournaments in years. Numbers don't lie. I understand why the IBO is THE organization that many archers belong to and enjoy the tournaments. I understand why many archers and the IBO leadership are perfectly satisfied with the membership numbers and tournament participation they have. However, part of becoming smaller is reduced influence within the industry and with customers.

If Rob K. and Lancaster Archery Supply decided to host, promote and develop an ASA type or OPA type 3D tournament somewhere around Lancaster Pa. they'd probably have hundreds paid in full participants within days of opening registration based on their track record with the LAS CLassic indoor tournament. The IBO has been doing 3D for decades and has now shrunk considerably while the ASA and indoor spot archery have grown tremendously. The NFAA's participation level at indoor nationals has either had record level attendance or been close the last few years. 

If an IBO member is not happy about the ASA scheduling on an IBO weekend they may want to the IBO leadership about how and why the organization has lost so much influence within the archery world as a whole.

After all my yammering, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the ASA tweaks their schedule or not....................I readily admit to not actually knowing diddly about the inner workings or having ANY faith in those they say they do, i.e. rumors!


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

shawn_in_MA said:


> That is true...however many of the manufacturers offer up a good sum of money in terms of Contingency money for the shoot AND Shooter of the Year...and some of their best horses in the stable would not be eligible if they miss a shoot.


That's a valid point, but Unknown is continuing to shrink, and I don't expect to see the manufacturers continuing to offer those big SOY checks for unknown much longer. Realistically, in IBO, it's a battle between 5-6 Mens Pros and 3-4 Ladies Pros that actually shoot them all and have a realistic chance of winning IBO SOY. IBO is going the wrong direction for both amateur and professional 3D competition... they're getting more and more irrelevant, as they should be based on their history of poor choices. I'm praying for the day when IBO buckles under and organizations/shooters that want good 3D tournaments in the north will have to stop settling for mediocrity and get a decent series going.


----------



## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

nestly said:


> That's a valid point, but Unknown is continuing to shrink, and I don't expect to see the manufacturers continuing to offer those big SOY checks for unknown much longer. Realistically, in IBO, it's a battle between 5-6 Mens Pros and 3-4 Ladies Pros that actually shoot them all and have a realistic chance of winning IBO SOY. IBO is going the wrong direction for both amateur and professional 3D competition... they're getting more and more irrelevant, as they should be based on their history of poor choices. I'm praying for the day when IBO buckles under and organizations/shooters that want good 3D tournaments in the north will have to stop settling for mediocrity and get a decent series going.


I agree with your entire statement 10000%


----------



## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> I know many of the Pro's that compete in every ASA haven't shot all the Triple Crown shoots in some years. How many _more _ are very happy that they have no choice than to skip an IBO shoot? There may be as many Pro's glad to skip a IBO shoot as there are those disappointed. Agree!
> 
> Compare the quantity and quality of vendors at the 7 ASA tournaments to the those at all the IBO tournaments and you'll have an idea of what the market value is of each tournament and consequently each organizations "value". There are many vendors that haven't bothered going to IBO tournaments in years. Numbers don't lie. I understand why the IBO is THE organization that many archers belong to and enjoy the tournaments. I understand why many archers and the IBO leadership are perfectly satisfied with the membership numbers and tournament participation they have. However, part of becoming smaller is reduced influence within the industry and with customers. Agree
> 
> ...


See replies in RED


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Davik said:


> They are testing that rumor in Texas next year...if it's successful, it will be implemented nationally year after next.


Doesn't make sense to me. Why not implement it nationally? I don't recall them testing SSK, KPro, or any other class using Texas as the test bed. Why do it for a SMK? What is going to be the criteria for "success"?

We've seen what happened to the pro class when they put in the Known Pro. Same with Super Senior Known and Senior Known. In all cases it brought MORE shooters into ASA because there were people who shot other venues such as field, dots, and fita, who were not interested in shooting unknown yardage. Known yardage classes have proven they're successful so why dither around with the senior masters?

They need to keep in mind that some of us geezers might not make it to year after next!


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

carlosii said:


> Doesn't make sense to me. Why not implement it nationally? I don't recall them testing SSK, KPro, or any other class using Texas as the test bed. Why do it for a SMK?


I agree that particular rumor seems unlikely. I can see them "testing" at the first shoot of the season and then deciding whether to continue that class or not based on participation, but I think it's highly unlikely that they would "test" the class in the middle of the season, especially in Texas which probably has the most different demographic of shooters compared to all the others. Time will tell...


----------



## TankerSarge (Jan 7, 2011)

“The more you know” 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

NYS REP said:


> Speed limits are in place to hopefully prevent injuries from being over bowed for younger and senior archers.
> Regards,
> Rudy Abersold
> ASA North Region Director


That's the reason for speed limits? I thought the other classes had speed limits as well at least in most ASA  I thought it was to level the playing field and quiet the "Its not fair" crew. and yes I have a shorter draw length but don't complain


----------



## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

nestly said:


> I agree that particular rumor seems unlikely. I can see them "testing" at the first shoot of the season and then deciding whether to continue that class or not based on participation, but I think it's highly unlikely that they would "test" the class in the middle of the season, especially in Texas which probably has the most different demographic of shooters compared to all the others. Time will tell...


Speculate all you want, but we were informed that the testing WILL be done in Texas next year, and Master Senior class will be ALL KNOWN, and if it raises the numbers in Senior Masters, it will be implemented year after next...so that rumor is true.


----------



## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

nestly said:


> That's a valid point, but Unknown is continuing to shrink, and I don't expect to see the manufacturers continuing to offer those big SOY checks for unknown much longer. Realistically, in IBO, it's a battle between 5-6 Mens Pros and 3-4 Ladies Pros that actually shoot them all and have a realistic chance of winning IBO SOY. IBO is going the wrong direction for both amateur and professional 3D competition... they're getting more and more irrelevant, as they should be based on their history of poor choices. I'm praying for the day when IBO buckles under and organizations/shooters that want good 3D tournaments in the north will have to stop settling for mediocrity and get a decent series going.


Spot on! I will add that I just went and looked at the shoot times for Worlds, Men’s, Women’s and Senior Pro classes combined has 47 shooters registered. I doubt the manufacturers and sponsors will continue to sign those big contingency checks when class numbers are so low. May just be the industry’s way of telling the IBO to adapt or fade away.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Davik said:


> Speculate all you want, but we were informed that the testing WILL be done in Texas next year, and Master Senior class will be ALL KNOWN, and if it raises the numbers in Senior Masters, it will be implemented year after next...so that rumor is true.


Not trying to be a smart azz, but where did that information originate? :confused2:


----------



## T&A (Sep 26, 2013)

It means I feel there will be no pros or vendors at the ibo shoot


----------



## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

nochance said:


> That's the reason for speed limits? I thought the other classes had speed limits as well at least in most ASA  I thought it was to level the playing field and quiet the "Its not fair" crew. and yes I have a shorter draw length but don't complain


Correct nochance-I added the additional information as it was presented to me. Leveler playing field and to help prevent injuries.


----------



## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

carlosii said:


> Not trying to be a smart azz, but where did that information originate? :confused2:


Our state ASA rep posted it on Facebook yesterday...its been in the works for awhile now.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Davik said:


> Our state ASA rep posted it on Facebook yesterday...its been in the works for awhile now.


OK. Thanks.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

TankerSarge said:


> “The more you know”
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is your point? Is it that the IBO claimed certain weekends 5-6 years in advance?

It will not surprise me if the ASA adjusts it's calendar but if they do it will be for the archers, sponsors and the industry and NOT for the IBO. The IBO has long claimed that they weren't an organization dedicated to "archery competition" as much as to bow hunting. With that in mind maybe Pro classes do not have a place in the IBO or manufacturers should no longer heavily incentivize their contracted Pro archers to compete in the IBO. I know when I shot IBO the archers competing for trophies far out numbered those of us shooting the same class for $$.


----------



## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

lazyhubby70 said:


> I've been hearing a rumor since TN state shoot 3 weeks ago and then heard several times at Cullman......Open B is becoming an all unknown 40 yard class.....but I can't find anybody to officially confirm.


I'd love to see an East Tennessee shoot come up. I'd make it my vacation week.


----------



## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

lazyhubby70 said:


> I've been hearing a rumor since TN state shoot 3 weeks ago and then heard several times at Cullman......Open B is becoming an all unknown 40 yard class.....but I can't find anybody to officially confirm.


I'd love to see an East Tennessee shoot come up. I'd make it my vacation week.


----------



## TankerSarge (Jan 7, 2011)

Kstigall said:


> What is your point? Is it that the IBO claimed certain weekends 5-6 years in advance?
> 
> Yes, this happened before like you stated. Just look at the comments on Facebook about the dates the Pros want 2 circuits to shoot on. It’s bad all the way around no matter what Organization you support. I was pointing out the IBO scheduled 6 years out so other formats can plan.
> 
> ...


----------



## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

A few very interesting comments about the ASA scheduling over the IBO in the last two days from some pros.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Supermag1 said:


> A few very interesting comments about the ASA scheduling over the IBO in the last two days from some pros.


I'd like to read them. Can you provide a link to the topic those comments were made in?


----------



## TankerSarge (Jan 7, 2011)

nestly said:


> I'd like to read them. Can you provide a link to the topic those comments were made in?


Levi Posted on ASAs schedule post on Facebook and said he won’t shoot Augusta he will shoot IBO. They deleted the whole post 15 minuets later...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

TankerSarge said:


> Levi Posted on ASAs schedule post on Facebook and said he won’t shoot Augusta he will shoot IBO. They deleted the whole post 15 minuets later...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL...I wonder if money was involved.


----------

