# Tiller Tuning VS. Cam Timing



## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

I have wondered what is the relationship between tiller and cam tuning? If you change the strength of one limb, does it effect the cam timing? I have experienced that with some bows they will aim steadier with a differnt tiller than even. 

For instance my Martin Sceptor I shot with a stronger top limb and it aimed significantly better. (reverse tiller, less distance on top limb) 

Should I just set the tiller even and creep tune, adjust cable length and forget about the tiller?

Is tiller independent from cam timing with no effect on each other? 

Talking about a 2 cam bow.

Any thoughts?

Jeff Schulz


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

Jeff , I would set the tiller even and see how the bow aims , if you need to tweak the tiller a little to have it set steady in your hand , so be it ( altho with todays stuff I would be surprized if you had to ) and then tune the cams , JMHO


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

The vantage pro is aiming well. I have the tiller at even and have got the factory strings stretched in. I have never shot a 41" ATA bow with fingers, always shot longer bows, this one is surprising me. When I execute a poor shot, it is not super critical of my mistake. The bow is so fast that I am having to force myself to gap less at the closer distance 15-20 yrd. I have creep tuned the bow, but need to go back and check it again to make sure since it may bhave stretched.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Here is an older thread you might want to read through.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=928866


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## Robert58 (Oct 5, 2002)

You might also go to Spot Hoggs website and read their News Letters. Start with No. 10 if I remember wright.

Robert


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Ok, I read it. Spott Hoggs said in a P.S. That Tiller tuning Microtunes your draw lenght by changing your grip angle, which makes you hold better. dd


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

If tiller tuning is making a slight adjustment to grip angle, which makes sense, then why not just adjust the grip? 

I have tried adjusting tiller on my Scepter 4 to compensate for minor cam timing differences and it didn't seem to affect timing. I ended up fiddling with the string twists as usual to correct. 

As far as creep tuning I need to mess around with this and see just how much difference this makes, and what is the ideal setting for me.


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

Creep tuning works! It will make the bow more forgiving. Only use your good shots and keep the nock set high when tuning initially, if you get the nock set too low it will give you some false stuff!!!


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## fuelracerpat (May 6, 2008)

*OK, I'll bite*

What in the world is creep tuning? I have been around this stuff for a long time and have never heard the term.


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## Robert58 (Oct 5, 2002)

fuelracerpat said:


> What in the world is creep tuning? I have been around this stuff for a long time and have never heard the term.


Go Here: http://www.spot-hogg.com/newsletters/archived/newsletter_10.php

Robert


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## fuelracerpat (May 6, 2008)

*creep tuning*

This all sounds fine for you folks that shoot with sights......... But, it sounds like it might be an exercise in futility shooting barebow(stringwalking). The draw length essentially changes with every different yardage "crawl" a barebow shooter makes, that is the reason shooting a clicker is less than a constant when you shoot this style.:teeth:


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

*Barebow-Creep tuning*

In string walking you are changing the tune of the bow as you walk up and down the string. Most Barebow stringwalkers set the wheel timing at the middle crawl. In other words the wheels are only in perfect cinc in the mid range of the entire crawl area. 

So if you have say 1" from against the nock to your birdie crawl, you would want to set your wheel in sinc/perfect time together at the 1/2" mark. Stringwalking is a game of averages. You will never have the bow shoot the same at all distances because you are changing where you are placing your fingers on the string, thus changing many things from draw length, grip angle, etc. I am in no way saying that good scores cannot be shot this way, I am saying that you are mechanically changing the way the bow shoots everytime you walk down the string. 

Most good stringwalkers do not use cam bows for this reason, and if you really want to shoot good you need round on round wheels with no cam whatsoever, IMO. Or shoot a Hoyt wheel and a 1/2, that helps with slaving the cams together over the range of different crawls.

Creep tuning is not that relavant to stringwalking. If you maintain a constant anchor, as you would shooting bowhunter, then it works to put the cams in sinc, or in time at full draw.

Creep tuning is more effective on a cam than a wheel. You are shooting one arrow against the wall, then shooting another arrow off of the wall, with a small amount of creep forward. Where the arrow impacts in relation to each other gives you a direction to adjust one cams roatation vs., another. The goal is to get the cams at full draw taking off at the same time and to obtain as forgiving a bow as possible to shoot. The cool thing about this method ios you are shooting the bow. You are not just drawing the bow on a draw board. Your grip, way you anchor, all of this is taken in as a factor. 

You could creep tune at you middle crawl, I guess. I have never done that when I stringwalk, I draw the bow at my mid crawl beside a mirror to observe the relationship of the wheels to each other, then adjust the buss cables to get the wheels in time. Depending on the bow, stringwalking has also required me at time to change the tiller, I shot my Pearson with reverse or negative tiller, 1/8 less distance on the top limb. I shot my highest round of 496 on Hunter with that set up. Timed at the mid crawl mark. The old timer barebow shooter will tell you in the past they used to switch the top and bottom limbs on bows that were tlllered for split to get them to stringwalk better.


Hope this helped

Jeff


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## fingers (May 27, 2002)

Frank Pearson got into this years ago. He would shoot groups from 60yds and would make and note adjustments to the limb bolts, 1/8th turn at a time. The object being to find that ideal point where the pressure would match the hand position so as to not cause any hand fight. Everyone is different so what one arrives at might not be good for another. He would shoot a six arrow group then make an adjustment and shoot another and do this up to eventually a full turn. Then he would return to the original point of tiller and then go the other way down by 1/8th turns. When the tillering is right the groups are tightest and as adjustments move away from the ideal, flyers become more obvious. It's a good exercise to do.


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