# Did the walk back



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

My Allegaince is doing the same thing, my target tips are dead on at 10-50 yards but my broadheads are to the right.
Let me know if you hear anything......


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## archerdad (Oct 17, 2002)

i would guess arrow spine.


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## xbowhunter (Sep 6, 2005)

Have the 28" Gold Tip Expedition Hunter 55/75 400 spine which is what is recommended for a 70# bow.


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## archerdad (Oct 17, 2002)

just for giggles try a lighter tip and see if it is better.
or reduce your draw weight and see if it gets better.

sometimes the charts aren't always right.

i went throught the same thing.

ended up with 7595 w/ 100 grain tips flew great.

5575 are better shorter or lighter tips.

good luck


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

*Hmmmmmmm Broadhead planning?*

Hmmmmmmm Broadhead planning? *I think so.* At these kind of speeds there is only 1 thing to do - Tweak the rest & the Knock by 1/64" to a 1/32" of an inch at a time. Pull the broadheads & the field tips together. in my opinion you will have to do this for all broadheads. (then you have a totally 100% interchangable setup) Change BH type = re-tune, especially at these speeds. You can't just screw on BH's & expect them to fly like field tips when the planning factor sets in.


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

I went through the same thing last week. Tried the walkback and had the field points doing great. (didnt have to move the rest from paper tune) Put on the broadheads and they were shooting to the left about 4". Moved the rest ever so slightly trying to get them to group togather but they still stayed 4" apart. When I moved my rest right my broadhead would move right and so would my field point. When I moved left both arrows moved the same. I gave up after two days and just moved the sights. Also 70# the 55/75 XTs at 27" and 100 gr Montecs and Crimson Talon. Could be a spine issue. I cant tune with a bare shaft with them either. My On Target says I am under spined but they do shoot very well from my setup just a few inches left. I will probably go back to NAP Pro Spitfires and Rocket Hammerheads and solve this problem.


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## sdavis (Aug 22, 2005)

*what veins are you using*

i recomend using the 2 inch bohning blazer veins i have no problem with these but when i use the 4 inch veins i do the same thing you are but with the 2 inch im dead on once you put the blazers on look down the shaft and make sure the veins line up with the blades 

hoyt trykon 
goldtip ultralite pros 28 1/2 draw 70lbs 293 fps arrow length 26 1/2
cobra rest and sight 
doinker stabalizer and sts system


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

I am using 2 inch blazers............


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## Lock On (Aug 2, 2005)

I just retune broadheads using sights. I don't mess with the rest after initial tuning. If you have tuned your broadheads dead on your good to go. Your not gonna hunt with the field tip anyway (hope not). The only thing I've ever had to fly the same were expandables (do not prefer).


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*You did the walkback and your arrow rest and nock point are perfect*



xbowhunter said:


> Ok I did the walk back today with the new carbons everything is straight up and down 20,30,40 yrds field tips *and *Broadheads *BUT * the Broadheads are hitting 6-7" to the right of the field tips. I can sight on on FT and nail 3" bullseyes at 20,30,40 yrds then go to BH and have to adjust sights over then hit B-eyes at 20,30,40 yrds
> 
> any ideas?


xbowhunter:

You did the walkback tuning perfectly.

Since the field tips and broadheads are hitting in different spots, you need to adjust the arrows with the broadheads.

Archerdad nailed it. The broadheads you are currently using don't match with your field points. Either try a heavier field point or a lighter broadhead.

Your bow right now is set up perfectly. *The tips/broadheads* on the arrows need work.


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## Lock On (Aug 2, 2005)

nuts&bolts said:


> xbowhunter:
> 
> You did the walkback tuning perfectly.
> 
> ...



would you go lighter for left or right and heavier for left or right?


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

Nuts and Bolts, If I go lighter or heavier with one wont that cause one to hit higher than the other. Ive been thinking about trying Slick Tricks so I might give them a try and I got some stiffer shafts that Im gonna try. I cant stand it when someone else is able to get something to work and I cant. Ill keep on till I get it right.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Field tips cost less than broadheads*



Lil Wag said:


> Nuts and Bolts, If I go lighter or heavier with one wont that cause one to hit higher than the other. Ive been thinking about trying Slick Tricks so I might give them a try and I got some stiffer shafts that Im gonna try. I cant stand it when someone else is able to get something to work and I cant. Ill keep on till I get it right.


I suspect your broadheads are making your arrow shafts behave weaker than your field tips.

I would purchase heavier field tips or go to a pro shop, and borrow a heavier field tip, screw it in, and test fire again for groups, until you find a field tip that will hit the same spot as your broadheads. When you find the correct weight field tip, then buy a dozen.

I think you might need a field tip say 20 grains heavier. 

Experiment with the heavier field tips and see what happens.

Just don't touch your arrow rest or nock point. Your bow is perfect right now.


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

Im going to try it. Thanks!


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## RIDGE_RUNNER91 (Feb 21, 2005)

I had very similar problems last season. I tried many arrow / broadhead combos all to no avail. I got a g5 arrow squaring device for Christmas and now all of them fly like darts. My muzzys hit the same place as my wasps, wacems and most importantly my field points. I thought I had the inserts installed pretty well (square) but I would still get horrible flight. I used the g5 and poof perfect arrow flight. I'm not sure if this will solve your problem but it is worth a shot. Good Luck.


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## yelk hunter (Feb 18, 2004)

Being an engineer is a curse! The BH center of gravity is farther forward than any field tip. Therefore you need more stiffness. When I first got back into this, using GT's I used 55/75. My brother used 75/95. Same bows, same poundage, same lentht arrows, same BHs. His shot, mine didn't. Borrowed some of his arrows - hello - 

I now only use 75/95. I believe the Gt is a little weaker than published.


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## yelk hunter (Feb 18, 2004)

Being an engineer is a curse! The BH center of gravity is farther forward than any field tip. Therefore you need more stiffness. When I first got back into this, using GT's I used 55/75. My brother used 75/95. Same bows, same poundage, same lentht arrows, same BHs. His shot, mine didn't. Borrowed some of his arrows - hello - 

I now only use 75/95. I believe the Gt is a little weaker than published.


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## mobowhntr (Jan 29, 2005)

I also had the GT 5575's. Same problem as you guys, sold them and got the 7595's and the problem went away. If you do a search on here you will find alot of threads saying to use 7595's for 70lb bows. It seems that Gold Tips need to be spined heavier than what the chart says.


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

*arrow spine*

I'm starting to think that all the spine ratings are for Field tips only.
If you fall in the latter half of the spine window (chart rating), I'm thinking one needs to step up to the next charted arrow for broadheads. Does this make sense? Anyone agree? This broadhead thing is like - WELCOME TO THE MONEY PIT!!!!!! I still think that planning is a big factor at higher speeds, but I'm going to take some of NUTS & BOLTS advice & work on it some more.
I still like the idea of a 100% interchangeable setup & want to shoot broad heads & field tips (same weight) at any given time & have the same point of impact for both.


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

Ok just a question because Im curious now. If the extended length of the broadhead is what is causing the spine issue and I see how it could, why do all the expandables shoot perfect when they are longer than the fixed blades. Or could it be that the fixed blades are causing more drag than the mechanicals which in turn puts more pressure on the front of the arrow causing it to react weaker? Just wandering.


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

Lil Wag said:


> Ok just a question because Im curious now. If the extended length of the broadhead is what is causing the spine issue and I see how it could, why do all the expandables shoot perfect when they are longer than the fixed blades. Or could it be that the fixed blades are causing more drag than the mechanicals which in turn puts more pressure on the front of the arrow causing it to react weaker? Just wandering.


Oops!
Wag - thats what I refer to as planning, but no one else seems to talk about it. The faster you go the more drag effect & the tuffer it is to control the broadhead. To dang Many variables! Whew!


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## Dean Lawter (Feb 15, 2005)

*charts*

I do not go through great pains to get them to group with field points. Broadheads do have to group just as well to suit me though. The G5 ASD does get the shaft square for the insert to set more square to the shaft, I use it on the nock end also. Physical differences in the BH's and field tips tell me that aerodynamics are different, weight distribution is differt which affects the spine and the front of center percentage.

I have noticed to, some of the arrow charts do not tell you whether or not to add weight for release methods and the like. I have noticed on some charts you end up adding around 10 lbs. to actual bow weight, which would likely bump you up a size on the charts.


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

OK Im goin to try the stiff ones and see if it makes a difference for me. I will still probably just shoot expandables but I want to at least be able to say that I can tune em (fixed) to shoot with field points. I get great groups and arrow flight but just not the same. Stiff shafts all that I got left to try so its gotta be it.


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## larrypa (Nov 17, 2004)

i would go with the stiffer shaft. i shoot 27in draw 27 in arrow 70lb hoyt turbotec with the cam 1/2. with 100gr. field points, gt 55/75 arrows arrows touching at 20 yrds. put on the broadheads(muzzy 3 blade) and got at least a 6in group. i tried moving the rest, aligning the broadheads to the vains, and lowering draw weight. Nothing but headaches. now im shooting beaman ics hunters with a 340 spine and the muzzy 3 or 4 blade broadheads. from 20 to 50 yrds. field tips hit with the broadheads.


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## archerdad (Oct 17, 2002)

:secret: :wink: so i was right??????


amazing better mark this one down


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## xbowhunter (Sep 6, 2005)

Thanks for input guys! This gives me lots of ideas! After doing alot of on-line searching i did find several "charts" where some said 400 spine and others said 300.  So if I can I will prob try a stiffer spine. But after forking out the cha-ching for this dozen....I gues I might have to just move the sights for now :sad: 

Unless I can slip them past the ol' Lady! :zip:


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## Spike Bull (Aug 15, 2003)

Before you try to slip some new arrows past the CFO you may try a few more things.

You can simply turn your bow down 2 turns and see what happens. If this problem is because the spine is too wimpy then it should improve. There is no argueing with the notion that many BHs are longer than the FPs which does change the flex but it is SO miniscule that I believe there is another cause.

Do you have a level on your sight? Is it properly adjusted and are you using it? Especially when you do walk back tuning? Your center shot may not be correct even if the bow prints perfectly vertical shots if you are not consistent with your bow's attitude.


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Spike Bull said:


> Before you try to slip some new arrows past the CFO you may try a few more things.
> 
> You can simply turn your bow down 2 turns and see what happens. If this problem is because the spine is too wimpy then it should improve. There is no argueing with the notion that many BHs are longer than the FPs which does change the flex but it is SO miniscule that I believe there is another cause.
> 
> Do you have a level on your sight? Is it properly adjusted and are you using it? Especially when you do walk back tuning? Your center shot may not be correct even if the bow prints perfectly vertical shots if you are not consistent with your bow's attitude.



I am using 55/77 XTs at 28" w/100 grain tips. At 70# I can get them to shoot well with broadheads, but I walkback with the preseason Montecs. Then I'm on when I'm in my treestand. I'm shooting spots with the bow now at 64# (two turns out) with the same arrows. I can't even think about shooting single spots. Walkback tuning combo points at this weight gave me the tightest 40 yard groups ever. Maybe tomorrow I'll try shooting a couple Montecs at 64# and see how they shoot! If I want to hunt this fall at 70# I my get some stiffer arrows or stay at 64#. :wink: Going to a lighter point would ruin my 10.7% FOC and I can't have that.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

My experience with fixed blade broadheads is that you always want to stay stiffer on the spine. This could have to do with the time it takes the arrow to flex and recover. With a wing at the front of the arrow, any flexing could steer the arrow off course. For hunting, given my draw weight and length, the charts recommend a 3-60 ACC. But I use a 3-71 ACC, and it flies great. Lands in the same place as my field points. There also seems to be less hissing.


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## vam (Aug 28, 2005)

*I learned this a long time ago*

And it works now dont think I nuts but here is what you can do go ask your wife if you can use some of her lipstick now she goa look you like your nuts but tell her you need it to tune your BH now you are going to paper tune your BH by shooting though it,take 1 arrow and on the vanes lighty put the lipstick on each vane back off about 6 ft, shoot though the paper the BH will make 1 cut and the vanes will mark where the go though this will tell you whats happening on the back end of the arrow,now what you do is move your arrow rest till they cut the same.it takes alittle time but it will solve this for you.I have had arrow shoot the same hole.I assume man I hate use that ward but just in case it you have never paper tune place your target butt,put up your paper in front of the butt but make sure the arrow will pass though all the way with out the back of the arrow tearing the paper when its in the butt. If you have any trouble PM me I will talk you though it,or if I can help in anyway PM me ////vam:zip:


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

Lot of good advice above.

A cheap way to test for spine problem is to change the draw weight on your bow. Go up or down depending on where in the draw range it is now. Be careful not to turn the limb bolts out more than the manufacturer's recommendations.

If they are shooting closer or further away, you know it is a spine problem. Try bare shaft tuning with your field points. At this point change only the bow's draw weight since it seems that you have the center shot adjusted properly.

If you can't adjust your draw weight enough to get them shooting together, you can change your arrow length (if you have enough), or the point weight. If it is not practical to change either enough to get the bare shafts and the fletched shafts within an inch or less, you will probably need new arrows.

General rules:
-shorter arrows and lighter points act stiffer
-Longer arrows and heavier points act weaker
-Higher draw weight and longer draw lengths require stiffer arrows
-lower draw weight and shorter draw lengths require weaker arrows
-Faster or "hard" cams require stiffer arrows
-round wheels require weaker spine.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Allen Read Great Gen Rules...Get OnTarget2! and save lotsa time*



AllenRead said:


> General rules:
> -shorter arrows and lighter points act stiffer
> -Longer arrows and heavier points act weaker
> -Higher draw weight and longer draw lengths require stiffer arrows
> ...


I agree 100% with AllenRead's general rules.

I used to spend lots of $$ and time experimenting blindly with arrows.
I use OnTarget2! and have much more fun and save humongous amounts of time tuning arrows now.

Download the free trial from www.pinwheelsoftware.com.
If you have trouble with the program, just post the question and you will get lots of help from all the OnTarget2! fans.


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