# "Anatomy of a sight?!"



## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

Just wondering about the pin setup...read a couple of threads in an attempt to find out how to sight (other then chasing the arrow, which I already figured out lastnight)...but what does each pin represent? 3-pin setup with points on the left and right (looped)...red (Top)...green (Mid)...yellow (Bottom). Do they represent yardage from the target.

My sight is as low as it can go, and the arrow still hits way below the target, and I have it all the way to the right, but its still right of center...but better then it was...BTW, if somebody suddenly got hit in Wisconsin with an unknown arrow in the backside, I'm terribly SORRY. :embara:

I started aiming close up, between 20 and 30' away with no success and moved out to about 50' thereafter just to shoot the bow. 

I have better luck if I look down the shaft at the target...actually was able to hit the bullseye of the target I had made and printed out on 8 1/2 x 11 paper, and the overall target itself without using the sight.

But don't ask me about Tuesday night after I got it setup...uffda...still have to figure out how to get the tip out of the tread of my Bobcat tire. :embara:

100 grain tip...400 grain (I think) arrow.


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## romeo212000 (Mar 21, 2006)

Check your center shot. Your rest may need to be adjusted. It also might be your shooting.


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## Zypher (Apr 26, 2006)

Each pin does represt a set yardage away from the target. For fixed pins I believe the most common setup would be 20, 30, 40, 50 but since your a new shooter you should only worry with getting your top pin to shoot at 20 yards and as you get better you can work on getting your other pins at the correct levels for the distance you want each of them to shoot. To check your center shot you may have to paper tune. Walk back tuning is an easier method but if your a novice shooter you may not be able to shoot well enough to see the correct results.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Not true, even a newbie can do walk back tuning...here's how*



Zypher said:


> Each pin does represt a set yardage away from the target. For fixed pins I believe the most common setup would be 20, 30, 40, 50 but since your a new shooter you should only worry with getting your top pin to shoot at 20 yards and as you get better you can work on getting your other pins at the correct levels for the distance you want each of them to shoot. To check your center shot you may have to paper tune. Walk back tuning is an easier method but if your a novice shooter you may not be able to shoot well enough to see the correct results.


Yup,
what Zypher says mostly.

Each pin represents a set distance.

Sounds like you (The PRE10DR) need a little help
tuning your bow.

First,
we do the walk back tuning for newbies:

this will help you get the arrow shooting straight
by setting the horizontal position of the arrow rest

AND

help you set the horizontal position of the sight ring
(for now, set all pins straight up and down)
(for now, have the ends of the pins form a straight line up the middle)

You don't need to be an expert shooter
to do walk back tuning.

Just shoot 3 or 4 arrows at each distance.
Look at the center of the group of arrows.

Figure out the pattern.

Are the centter of the groups straight up and down?

Are the center of the groups going further left as distance increases?

Are the center of the groups going further right as distance increases?

Walk back tuning is for the newbies as well.

WALK BACK TUNING

Hang a weighted string from a nail on a target. 

Stick a round sticker on the target face so that the string splits the sticker. Use your existing 20-yd pin, step back 20-yards from the target and fire at the sticker. 

Don't worry about where the arrow hits. 

Walk straight back to 30 yds, and using the same 20-yd pin setting, 
fire an arrow at the sticker. 

Repeat at 35 yds and at 40 yds, using the 20-yd pin and firing at the sticker.

If your arrows look like this pattern " / " or “\”, 
then pick a direction and move your arrow rest 1/16th inch. 












If the pattern gets straighter (more vertical), then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction.












If the pattern gets more crooked, then adjust in the other direction.

Keep firing arrows and keep adjusting the arrow rest position until you get a vertical pattern of arrows.

Eventually, your arrows will hit in the target is a straight up and down line like this " | ". 












LOCK down the arrow rest setting. Your centershot is perfect.



But, your vertical pattern of arrows may not be hitting the string. 

The vertical pattern of arrows may be on one side of the string.
Let’s say the arrows are say 6-inches to the left of the weighted string.










Pick a direction to adjust your sight ring windage. Adjust the sight ring windage 1/16th of an inch. Repeat the test. Fire arrows at least 3 distances, and see if the vertical pattern of arrows gets closer to the string.

If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting closer to the string, then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction. If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting farther away, then adjust in the other direction.

Eventually, you will have a vertical pattern of arrows right on top of the string.

Lock down the windage and lock down the arrow rest. Windage and center shot are now perfect.


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## Zypher (Apr 26, 2006)

That is the best explanation of walkback tuning there is but I wasn't sure if someone that was inexperianced could shoot consistantly enough to see the line of arrows down the target.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*There is always a way, for newbies and for us more experienced folks.*



Zypher said:


> That is the best explanation of walkback tuning there is but I wasn't sure if someone that was inexperianced could shoot consistantly enough to see the line of arrows down the target.


Hello Zyper:

Here's a photo posted by BowZo when he was finished with walk back tuning.
It was a very long post long ago that inspired me to write my version of walk back tuning.










That bottom group is at 60 yds.

It's hard to see, but there is actually a single arrow
at the top of the string.


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## Zypher (Apr 26, 2006)

Thats really good shooting. I used a bobber for my plumb bob the other week and once I got finished I decided to shoot it. So now it is my offical walk back tuning bobber.


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## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

Thanks everyone.

And "THANK YOU" N&B for those detailed instructions. Wow...now to decipher some of the jargon. :tongue: hehe - Guess that's some of the alure of archery...

Anyways...here is a graphic illustration of my sight pin setup where "o" denotes colored pins and "---" denote the spacer bar {or retaining bracket} between the pins:

o--------o (red) (??yardage??)

o--------o (grn) (??yardage??)

o--*O*----o (ylw) (??yardage??)

Sight shifted all the way to the right where "*O*" denotes arrow position in relation to left side pins.

o----*O*--o (ylw) 

Sight shifted all the way to the left where "*O*" denotes arrow position in relation to right side pins.

No more horizontal adjustment to either the left and/or the right, unless I would mount the sight on the right hand face of the bow vs the left.

Vertical movement, I guess I have some adjustment set screws I could loosen to move the pins down further within the sight bracket.


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

To begin with the only sighting dots you will be using are the ones at the tips of the sight pins. Most pins don't have that dot at the base, but some do. Ignore the dot at the base.

The distance each denotes is up to you, I usually set mine at 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60, but to each his own.

You said your sight cannot be lowered enough. It sounds like your draw hand anchor point is much too high (probably because of looking down the arrow shafts!). Make a fist and place the big knuckle where your index finger is attached to the palm into the hollow behind your jaw/under you ear. This will get you started toward finding a comfortable anchor position. It will also make you raise your peep, same as raising the rear sight on a gun, getting you to shoot higher and allowing some vertical adjustment to your sight ring.

I really suggest you go to the nearest pro shop/range and get a little instruction for proper form and fit and so on....at least get started on the right foot. We can't see if your drawlength is 2" too long or if you're breaking your neck to see through your peep, so go to a qualified/experienced indvidual to get some pointers. I hope it helps.

Welcome to archery and good luck!


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## 808hunta (Apr 5, 2006)

XP35 said:


> You said your sight cannot be lowered enough. It sounds like your draw hand anchor point is much too high (probably because of looking down the arrow shafts!). Make a fist and place the big knuckle where your index finger is attached to the palm into the hollow behind your jaw/under you ear. This will get you started toward finding a comfortable anchor position. It will also make you raise your peep, same as raising the rear sight on a gun, getting you to shoot higher and allowing some vertical adjustment to your sight ring.


I agree with the XP35. Could just be a peep or anchor adjustment (at least for the vertical adjustments). Follow the walkback tuning method for centershot and windage adjusments. Great advice given above! 

Also, that 60 yard group above...I dream of being able to shoot that well! Oh, well, practice, practice, practice.....


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## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

Peep?!
 Anchor Adjustment?!

:embara: Oy-vey....

 [shakes head] Why I never take up something easier, like "Kicking the Cat?!" or somethin', I will never know...[/shakes head]


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## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

Minor update...

My sight was mounted on the wrong side (left hand) of the Shelf Window/Grip portion (was this way from the store when they set it up).

Removed, flipped and remounted it on the right face, and now I am able to line up my right hand side pins with the center of the shaft of the arrow, giving me the left pins as another visual aid. Thereafter, put an arrow and sighted it down the limbs and center of the limb bolts to the center of the shaft.


o-------o (red)

o-------o (green)

o-------o (yellow)

..........*O* (Arrow)

Doing this also gave me more vertical movement for additional adjustment, and I was able to drop the sights more, bringing my arrow up {a lot!} when shooting at the target.

Now I just need to know which pins to use for close, medium and distance shots when I fine tune it. 

Shattered two arrows using the yellow pins at close range (10 yards or so). Center (green) pins, I came pretty close to the bullseye and I can actually use the "Peep"...which I finally figured out what that little ring nested in the string was and what the hole is obviously used for tonight. 

BTW, bow is a BUCKMASTER (Fred Bear) BTR32 that you find at any Walmart for $280+ (but I got mine at Mills Fleet Farm for $175.00), with what I would say is a $5.00 sight as part of this pre-packaged bow kit.

Once I become familiar with bows and know what to look for, some of the nomenclature and other jargon and/or want after gaining some experience, then I'll upgrade...hence the reason I bought this inexpensive one for now. 

I'll pass it off to the wife later...unless I find another inexpensive one...which leads me into another question...this is a 70# bow. How low can I adjust the draw weight on a bow, and/or any other bow for that matter, as my wife was unable to draw it tonight even a couple of inches without her pointing the bow all over the place trying to draw it? I'm estimating she will need about a 25 to 30# setup. Or are their speciality bows tailored to woman that aren't very strong?


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## beenfarr (Feb 13, 2006)

*Maybe...*

you should post a pic of your bow and set-up, just so we can make sure the person at the store didn't do anything else rediculous to your bow.

Good luck, 
Ben


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## beenfarr (Feb 13, 2006)

The PRE10DR said:


> .
> 
> I'll pass it off to the wife later...unless I find another inexpensive one...which leads me into another question...this is a 70# bow. How low can I adjust the draw weight on a bow, and/or any other bow for that matter, as my wife was unable to draw it tonight even a couple of inches without her pointing the bow all over the place trying to draw it? I'm estimating she will need about a 25 to 30# setup. Or are their speciality bows tailored to woman that aren't very strong?


Generally you have a 10 lb span on bows. So you can probably go down to 60lbs by turning the limb bolts out (I realize you probably don't know what limb bolts are, that's OK, you'll learn. Plus you probably shouldn't even think about turning limb bolts until you do some more reading and learn about them.) You could install a shorter string on the bow, which will lessen the draw weight.

Or, you could buy lower poundage limbs later, but may not be worth the extra money, considering what you have in the bow.

Good Luck, Any questions, just ask,

Ben


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## beenfarr (Feb 13, 2006)

*Anatomy of a bow*

Here's a good link on basic bow info, hopefully you find it usefull.

http://www.huntersfriend.com/bowselection.htm

Ben


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## Mexican 3D (Nov 16, 2003)

if i understand correctly, you are using the wrong part of the pins. if you are right handed you should use the left side of the pin. see diagram below. the arrow is more or less in line with the pins. this will be determined by walkback tuning as described earlier, but its a good starting point.


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## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

Thanks Mex 3D...

That's my pin setup.

I'll take your advise and shift them to the right, so that the left set of pins are over the arrow, versus the right.

Now if I could just solve the problem of my fletchings being torn off, I'll be in good shape.

Lost several arrows to overshooting the hay bale pile...now I'm hitting the target without going over...and when I goto retrieve my arrows...I'll find the fletchings on the ground on the way to the target.

I have a full-circular, "bristol" hold. I'm thinking that's tearing them off. Easton arrows ($35.00 for 6). <shakes head>Dis is gonna be an expensive hobby...</shakes head>

Anyway of regluing/resetting the fletchings?!


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## Mexican 3D (Nov 16, 2003)

you can reglue the fletching yourself, but you need a fletcher, and glue. i use a jojan monofletcher and loc tite, but there are several good glues out there, and for beginners, the Arizona Easy fletch is very easy to use:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sho...=2564&osCsid=7ee71f7365001d4088a3406c5401faf3

also its a good idea to get a pack of vanes, to replace the thorn ones. i have never used the arrow rest you mention (whisker bisquit i assume), so i dont know if they vanes fall because of contact. maybe try putting a small drop of glue in the tip, that could help some. 

good luck!!


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Pre10der, is there an archery shop or range near you? If so, PLEASE go there! PLEASE! You have several issues going on and I seriously doubt we can help fix them all over the internet. Really. Get to a shop and pay a few dollars for a quick lesson and have someone check out/tune your setup. I'd really like to see you enjoy archery, and getting some pointers from someone will help insure you do and you'll stick with it. Archery is very rewarding, and a great hobby and pasttime, but noone can just learn it on their own and be any good at it. It's just one of those things that require at least a little coaching and a lot of training and practice. Going to a pro will at least get you pointed in the right direction. Did you know there is a RIGHT way of holding the bow? Probably not and this is what I'm talking about. There is a RIGHT place to place your arrow rest, too. It's not in that place and now your fletchings are tearing off......see what I mean??

Get to a shop, man, and I wish you luck!


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## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

There are a few Archery shops and ranges near me:

Gander Mountain is where I took it to get the peek and nock installed, as they are the only one in town apparently with a bow-press...and where they had a certified technician that was also a Martin Staff Shooter. He no longer works there though, apparently as of the day I took it in. The guy that did the final setup on my bow, moved my arrow rest from the front of the shelf to behind, where it was supposed to be (and per picture on the box).

Yeah...I have a lot of work ahead of me on this and I've got a friend that's been into archery for a long...long...long time. He's going to help me out next time we get together.


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

Couldn't agree with XP35 more! Spend a little time and a few bucks at a local pro shop...Most of them would be eager to show you the fundamentals.
*I suggest posting here on AT and see if there's an AT member near you that could show you the ropes!* Without the basic knowledge of what's going on with your equipment and form, you'll get frustrated and won't enjoy the sport like you could.


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## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

I'm not disagreeing with XP35's recommendation and/or you kcarcherguy...

Actually...I'm find shooting the bow relaxing and enjoyable, albeit the slight wrist pain I get (due to Carpel Tunnel).

I just have to find the time in my daily schedule, because after work...then its either yard work at home or the wife wants to spend time with me.  I just can't get away from either...


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## Arctic Cat Chic (Aug 16, 2005)

The PRE10DR said:


> ...then its either yard work at home or the wife wants to spend time with me.  I just can't get away from either...


I can't think of a better way to spend time w/her than shooting together. :wink:


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Arctic Cat Chic said:


> I can't think of a better way to spend time w/her than shooting together. :wink:


Great idea! Get both of you lessons. Then you can have all the time and relaxation you like. I also find it very relaxing and that's why I make a point of shooting every single day. I MAKE time for it, even when travelling.


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## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

Arctic Cat Chic said:


> I can't think of a better way to spend time w/her than shooting together. :wink:


 NO WAY!!!!!  

Wife use to be into and loved archery when she was younger and said she could outdo me when we were looking at bows together.

After giving her my bow and 26" arrows for her to try, I ended up ducking behind the wheelbarrow for cover as she was all over the place when trying to draw...for my safety and that of the field mice and biting flies that reside in the barn, I don't think this would be such a good idea.  :tongue:


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## minnow (Mar 2, 2006)

When you get together with your archery buddy ask him where he goes for arrow fletching, bow tuning, etc. Chances are there is a small pro shop in your area that the bow hunters all know about and patronize, but anyone who isn't into archery wouldn't even know it exists. Go there, explain your situation, we all started knowing nothing about archery. If it's a good shop they will understand, (not getting your gear from them, tell them the truth, you didn't know they existed) they'll "tune" your bow and show you proper "form", get used to those 2 words, you'll hear them alot. They'll also make sure you have the correct spine and length arrows etc., etc. 
Also, hang out alot on this sight, there are a lot of people here who love nothing more then helping other archers. It doesn't matter how long you've been shooting, 2 weeks or 20 years, there's always something to learn here. Welcome to the fold. :darkbeer:


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## The PRE10DR (May 4, 2006)

I picked up the AZ Fletching jig tonight...and here's something I noticed.

When looking from the rear of the arrow shaft towards the tip, cock feather up...all fletchings that have been coming off are on the right hand side. 

So I went to reflecth them in the jig, and I attempted to put the cock feather into the guide (light color) as the directions indicate, and all arrows were off one turn, where the fletching that was tore, lined up with the light color retainer where the cock feather is supposed to go.

So I grabbed one from what was left from my first two sets of arrows as I haven't had problems with them tearing off...and they line up in the jig like they are supposed to. Also, the vanes haven't rippled like these last three batches of arrows have, and to which the vanes are tearing off. Went through all of them, and my first batch was okay...but these last three batches...all off one vane.

Anyways, I'm hitting around the center spine of the box that the arrows came in that I am subsequently using as a target after opening up the box to expose the inside and taping an 8 1/2 x 11 target I made and printed out from 30 yards away as of tonight. 

"Clustered a group of 5" up and slightly to the right of the bullseye. But not with the three recent batches of arrows. Those things, not only can you hear them "flutter" like a swarm of locusts all the way to the target, but I could actually see them going all over the place on their way. Interesting to watch how much they can drift either one way or another.


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