# Age limit for archery



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

There isn't a set age limit. My 12 year old son brings in 3-400 dollars every 8 weeks shooting multiple archery leagues as winnings, shooting against adults. 

The NFAA does set a pro card age to be 18, but will waiver it. 

Regarding coaches and coaching - find a coach, see if you work well with him or her, pay said coach. Even Coach Lee, our national head coach, is for hire and has private students.

You won't make much money on the recurve side of the world. And sponsorships are not easy to come by. You need deep pockets or a cash source of some sort to survive and pay for training, equipment, and fees.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

What do you consider "professional?" and in what discipline?


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> What do you consider "professional?" and in what discipline?


I mean you don't shoot just for yourself, but your aim is to compete internationally as a national team member. I'm speaking only about shooting an olympic recurve (target, outdoor and indoor)


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## acco205 (Jun 13, 2014)

From what I have gathered, archery is one of the few sports where age is not a consideration for coaches and teams. If you can shoot the scores, no one will bat and eye.

FWIW there are more than a few recurve archers in team USA's RA program in their mid to late 20's and possibly a handful that are older. (though I'm told the average age is lower. That, however, may have more to do with economics than skill and ability, as shooting full time and not getting paid for it is not something many people with real jobs and families can do).


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Elrose, I started shooting target archery at age 33 (had only shot hunting bows up to then) and made the U.S. Olympic team at age 34. At age 42, I made the 2012 Olympic Shadow Team (top 16 qualifiers in the U.S.) and but for a limb failure at the 2nd event, very likely would have gone on to make the top 8 at the trials for London. 

I had an opportunity to shoot full time at age 34.

Butch Johnson made Olympic teams in his 50's and finished ahead of me at the 2012 trials at age 56!

If you have a decent talent for archery, a good head on your shoulders, and you're in good physical shape and willing to put the time in, there is no reason you cannot shoot well enough to make an international team well into your 30's and even your 40's. But there aren't that many folks who meet all those criteria.

John


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

Thank you for your answers. It inspired me very much. I started shooting a recurve at the age of 19 and i'm 20 now ..i think i need to find a coach who will work with me almost every day, and in this case i'll possibly become a competitive archer


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

You don't need a coach to work with you almost every day. You need a good coach to get you started, yes, but the "every day" part is up to you. This is a very solitary sport, and the best archers are completely comfortable with, and even look forward to, all the "alone time" they spend shooting and training. This is what knocks out many young archers in today's super-social society. They cannot tolerate the amount of time they have to train on their own, so oftentimes they turn to team sports for the social interaction.

The act of shooting well is a very internal process, often most easily found on a quiet field without distractions - including even, the voice of a coach.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

Be careful of your coaching expectations. You may have a difficult time finding a coach who can/will work with a student every day if you're not related to them. Most of us have careers and families, but do the coaching gig on the side to give back to the sport we have gotten much. If I didn't reserve my coaching time for the JOAD club, I would only be available twice per week for students. Each coach you encounter will have different availabilities and it's important that you work within what they can offer you. Paid or not, if I had a student that was trying to monopolize my time, he/she would get dropped in a hurry.

So, just keep those things in mind as you look for a coach. Oh, good for you for looking for a coach!! 

EDIT: More good advice from limbwalker above!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Mulcade said:


> Be careful of your coaching expectations. You may have a difficult time finding a coach who can/will work with a student every day if you're not related to them. Most of us have careers and families, but do the coaching gig on the side to give back to the sport we have gotten much. If I didn't reserve my coaching time for the JOAD club, I would only be available twice per week for students. Each coach you encounter will have different availabilities and it's important that you work within what they can offer you. Paid or not, if I had a student that was trying to monopolize my time, he/she would get dropped in a hurry.
> 
> So, just keep those things in mind as you look for a coach. Oh, good for you for looking for a coach!!


Great advice from Kevin.

I recently had one of my most accomplished archers' parents inform me they were leaving because her child wasn't getting enough of my attention. Like Kevin, I run a youth program, and also coach individual lessons on the side, but I work full time and have a family and other interests as well. So I had to set a hard limit for myself of 2 days/week that I teach archery. Usually, one of those is JOAD or 4-H night. 

This parent was looking for that mythical coach who was available to their child 4-5 days/week, plus tournaments because they mistakenly thought that is what's required to produce a world-class archer. That is simply not the case, as evidenced by all the USAT and World Team members I've coached over the years but rarely saw more than once/week. 

These coaches simply do not exist, no matter how much money one is willing to pay. If you find one who is, be sure to check their qualifications and their track record of turning out USAT-level archers. If they have few enough students to dedicate that much time to one individual, that would be a red flag IMO.

John


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## acco205 (Jun 13, 2014)

You'll quickly find every day is far more than you need (as mentioned above). I meet with my coach every other week and generally we work solely on tiny, nit picking details. The big stuff is done and taken care of. The rest I dont need someone to tell me every day, I can feel when I rotate my hips or move my head, etc, I just need to practice until its solid and then move to something else.

I think more important is having a coach who is accessible that you get along with. For different people this means different things, but in my case I was able to find a coach who is happy to look at a video or chat on the phone for a few minutes on an off week if something isnt quite right. Not all coaches will do that, not all students will need that. But in my case when I'm having an off day I like being able to have someone grab a video to email over and get "Oh, this is what has changed since we last met- keep an eye on it" - again, not all coaches will do that and you may not feel the need. Just look for someone who want to work with you, not for you. (and of course NEVER abuse any "off the clock" support they offer!!)


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

Thank you for your help! But the thing is that i often feel uncomfortable when i shoot without a coach. Feels like i have a lot of mistakes and there is nobody to correct them. I think it is because i started not so long ago and all my shots are still different. Are 2 lessons with a coach per week enough? I will shoot alone rest of the time


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## acco205 (Jun 13, 2014)

Have you shot with a coach yet? I felt the same way when I first started. There are a lot of little things to worry about when shooting recurve and until you gain awareness of the problem, you dont know its there.

Just remember to take everything one step at a time. You'll work with basic form first with only a few points to worry about- forget everything else. Just focus on (for example) consistent hook and consistent grip. Next week you'll add in consistent setup, then anchor, and so on, eventually building towards consistent, then consistently good form. If you find a good coach, part of their goal should be to get you to a point where you dont need someone to tell you when you do something wrong. In other words, part of their effort should be for you to be able to confidently shoot alone and evaluate your performance. Like John said, archery is a very solitary sport.


(coaches, feel free to add to or amend this statement, as this is only in my experience with the 2 coaches I've worked with).


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

I had been shooting with a coach one time per two weeks and I didn't get a lot from it. I always try to focus on one thing, but then i forgot another one that's why I think I need more shooting with a coach. Thank you for a piece of advice!


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

This always brings to mind the movie Last Samurai with Tom Cruise. When he is in the village, he ends up training with the master swordsman probably as something to do while he waits around between conversations. After he keeps getting his butt kicked, one of the young samurai tells him he is of too many minds. Basically, he's trying to pay attention to everything around him, so he can't focus on the task at hand. It's the same thing in practicing archery. You can't pay attention to everything because you'll end up focusing on nothing. Work with your coach and develop a list of the most important things to work on. Prioritize the list and start working your way down it. Start with #1 and get that to where it's solid before moving to #2. When you get #2, go back to #1 to check-in with it. If it needs work, give it the time it needs. Once you have #1 and #2 solid, move to #3 and so on. In time, you figure out when you can work on two things at once because the first thing is done before the second starts.

The other thing to keep in mind is how this process works. I've always viewed archery as a martial art. You can learn the fundamentals in a relatively short amount of time. It may not be pretty, but you can demonstrate the steps. After that, you have your entire lifetime to perfect those steps. Archery is not a sprint, it's very much an endurance race of the mental game more than anything.

EDIT: Your coach may have other ideas on how to move you past this phase. If he/she does, go with that. What I've put down here is only one of a dozen or more approaches to teaching archery.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Wise words above.

I'll add to what's been said by noting that the best archers are the ones who learn to be very self-sufficient and take pride in figuring things out on their own. Show me an archer that is too dependent on a coach, and I'll show you one who will languish in mediocrity (for the reasons Kevin notes above). 

At some point, you have to take ownership of your training and progress, and eventually of your shot. It's a good habit to get into early. If you're struggling with the idea of not having a coach see you more than once a week, you need to first work on your self-confidence, because that is your limiting factor for now.

But again, this is all a moot point because you won't find a coach who has that kind of time available, and if you do, they either aren't that accomplished of a coach, or if they are, you can't afford them.


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

Mulcade, limbwalker,

Thank you very much, you helped me a lot! I know archery is more of a mental game, but sometimes it's hard for a newbie to understand it..I think my biggest problem is that I can not collect my thoughts before a shot, in my mind I always have that I must shoot better than before and I have a bad shot as a result. Probably I can cope with it only by my own, and coach will help me to get proper form and technique 

P.S. Last Samurai is a masterpiece


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Elrose said:


> Thank you for your help! But the thing is that i *often feel uncomfortable when i shoot without a coach.* Feels like i have a lot of mistakes and there is nobody to correct them. I think it is because i started not so long ago and all my shots are still different. Are 2 lessons with a coach per week enough? I will shoot alone rest of the time


this is common starting out...not to be rude- but you simply have to get over it. I guarantee You will make mistakes- and a lot of them, you will screw up often, you will get frustrated when it's not coming together, you will be confused- when you think you do everything right and crap an end....PERFECT. This is what you want. YOU need to know what wrong is like as well as what is right. If someone is there giving you all the answers- you will never make it in higher level competition. 


I'd say no more than once a week on a coach. More than that and I think you're not doing YOUR part.


Let me say this...Please- GO HAVE FUN. You possibly can't be having much fun with too much coaching/instruction. I've got a student- actually, another coach does (she just asks for help from time to time)- anyway- this kid is a great shot, listens well, has decent form but has one horrible issue-- not much fun there. She puts so much pressure on herself that the fun is gone on much of her ends and practices. Until SHE decides to let go of this "perfection" she seeks, she is done as far as advancement.

we can be our own worst critics...I'm horrible about this. What I'm doing now is, on days like yesterday- (would do better throwing the arrows), I bring my bare bow and fling some @ 50/70. Arrows are heavy (about 450grn- for a 38# bow)....huge rainbow at 70....but a lot of fun to shoot.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I see...the "grouping" mentality. This is very hard to get rid of...but you will want to ditch the shooting of groups.

You have one arrow and only one arrow to shoot.
the next shot does not matter.
the prior shot does not matter.

you can do nothing about any shot other than the 1 in your hand.

forget every shot and only focus on the shot sequence and you'll be well on your way to improving scores.

Did I say shot sequence....yep. Build one. Be very detailed and it will come together. Be willing to modify this sequence as necessary- for example, I'm needing to add how I hook...If my hook is wrong, I'll add too much lower finger-- flub a shot. So, now verifying top finger weight is a necessary step for accurate shooting. It's taken me a few months of work but Now I'm getting exactly what I need to do....just not habit yet.


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## acco205 (Jun 13, 2014)

Elrose said:


> Mulcade, limbwalker,
> 
> Thank you very much, you helped me a lot! I know archery is more of a mental game, but sometimes it's hard for a newbie to understand it..I think my biggest problem is that *I can not collect my thoughts before a shot, in my mind I always have that I must shoot better than before and I have a bad shot as a result*. Probably I can cope with it only by my own, and coach will help me to get proper form and technique
> 
> P.S. Last Samurai is a masterpiece


Step 1. Let go of this notion.

Relax, breath, learn to feel the shot. The best shooters have the best mental game and body awareness. Right now you are focusing so hard on making improvements that you are working yourself up and exacerbating the perceived problem. This is NOT a sport where you get good overnight.

Right now its okay to have improper form - dont worry about that - IMO its more important to have consistently improper form than inconsistently improper form.

Why? Because you need to learn to feel when you do something different. You dont need to do better every shot, you need to shoot YOUR SHOT every shot. The previous arrow has nothing to do with the next arrow. It doesnt matter if it was the best shot you have ever taken or the worst, the next arrow is totally different, dont let the previous shot affect it. 

Your coach is going to make adjustments to your form, but its on you to do those changes each time. Lose the target, forget about where the arrow hits, and focus on executing your shot every time. 

On the mental side of the equation, Furyflier hit it on the head- you are doing it to have fun! Everyone finds something different about it fun. I like the challenge - the art form that is the recurve shot. For me, the fluid motion of coming to full draw and releasing an arrow is zen (wouldnt you know I used to study tai chi?). For you it may be different. But when you spend every training day worrying about results it has a way of sucking the fun out of it.

The best shots are the relaxed ones. You're more relaxed when you're smiling and not kicking yourself. So breath, slow down, and dont sweat being perfect. You'll get there.

edit- pretty much what furryflier wrote while I was typing lol


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Looks like you've already received about $300 worth of lessons already.  ha, ha.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

This reminds me of one of my students who has moved on to other pursuits. :grin:

Young lady about 12 years old would look back at her father after every shot. He was her security blanket. The good news there is that he is one of those parents you wish you could clone and give to every archer. Always positive and encouraging, never coaches his daughter, and just loves to watch her shoot. I told her that she didn't need to turn around and look at him after every shot. He'd still be there after all the arrows are gone. She tried so very hard to break that habit, but just couldn't force herself to not look for more than an arrow or two. When she started getting frustrated, I had her dad go stand on the other end of the shooting line. The first time she turned around and saw he wasn't there was a Kodak moment! Of course, she found him and would look over there for him. So, I had him leave the room. After she was finally able to convince herself that it was ok that dad wasn't back there, the looks back tapered off pretty quickly. It didn't stop immediately, but it didn't take long for her to break that habit. Her dad was immensely proud of her. I just wish she had stayed around long enough to break her clicker panic. She would have had so much fun after breaking those two habits! 

The moral of the story is that he biggest limiting factor was allowing herself to be confident in her own process.

I've run into her a couple of times since then and I bet she could master that clicker pretty quickly if she came back to it!


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Elrose _

This is my experience as an instructor/coach and shooter for about 45 years. 

Unless there has been either a fair amount of prior shooting experience or some kind of athletic training/ability (or a hell of a lot of dedication), most people getting involved with serious target archery over 50/55 years of age, don't do very well. Yes, there are always exceptions, but that's been the general rule. 

That doesn't mean they can't enjoy shooting, just that expectations have to be considered. 

Viper1 out.


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> Looks like you've already received about $300 worth of lessons already.  ha, ha.


That's true I wrote down some of the given information...will practice confidence on the shooting line)


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

Mulcade, acco205, Fury90flier,

Thank you so much!! Now I see on what things I should work. And having fun, of course! I always forget about this point.


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

Viper1 said:


> Elrose _
> 
> This is my experience as an instructor/coach and shooter for about 45 years.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I understand that a person of 50 years of age is hardly believed to become a serious target archer. But when I started shooting I didn't expect that my age (19) was determined to be unpromising...coaches are focused on new archers of younger age


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

No no, people in the late teens and twenties can be the easiest to work with. If they're actually dedicated to the sport, they put in the time and the coach doesn't have to do much at all to manage them. If they're just playing around, they'll enjoy it for awhile and eventually fall away on their own. They're mature enough to have to only explain things once, with the occasional refresher. You don't tend to have to hammer ideas into them week after week. For those that do 'need' it, it's a quick lesson in what it means to be an adult.


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## joebehar (Nov 13, 2012)

Viper1 said:


> Elrose _
> 
> This is my experience as an instructor/coach and shooter for about 45 years.
> 
> ...


I'm a living testament to this, but there is hope 

I picked up my first ever bow at age 55 and took a beginner course through my local club. After the first 6 months of shooting, I was about ready to sell the gear and look for a new hobby/pastime/recreational activity. Every young whippersnapper was kicking my butt and outshooting me every day of the week...by a wide margin.

One night, after a mediocre practice session, it occurred to me that I tried archery not to outscore anyone or to compete, but rather to enjoy the sport because I thought it was neat. I also remembered the clarity of thought I had after a couple of hours of shooting when my head was not filled with day to day nonsense, but just focussed on shooting.

I still shoot like crap about half the time, but I get home relaxed and ready to face the next day. I've tried relaxation techniques, meditation and even yoga, but none has proven to clear my head as well as archery. I would venture to say that at middle age, you should realistically forget about being seriously competitive, but the OP is only 20 years old 

To the young ones out there, follow your heart. This is the time to find out what really turns your crank and what you're great at. To old geezers like me (unless you've been doing this for many years) enjoy the sport for what it gives you; a chance to get outdoors, an activity that can keep you mentally sharp and the occasional satisfaction of the perfect shot that keeps you coming back.

Oh, and don't forget the great people you'll meet at the range too.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> But when I started shooting I didn't expect that my age (19) was determined to be unpromising...coaches are focused on new archers of younger age


I've been seeing this too. I think I know why, and it's for a couple reasons - neither of which I agree with. First, the younger archers are at the beginning of the learning curve, and the coach, the archer and the parent see more progress from these archers on a recurring basis. So it can be more "rewarding" for some to work with younger archers. Second, there are many newly-minted "coaches" who are looking to earn a second income with their certifications, and the first point I made helps them do this - parents are more willing to shell out cash for their little ones when they are seeing steady progress. Older archers like yourself, often see less significant progress because they have reached the steeper part of the learning curve, and often plateau before they make another breakthrough. Plus, they don't often have the disposable income that the parents of the younger archers have, so they are financially and somewhat emotionally less appealing for those coaches. 

But for those coaches like Kevin and myself who are not looking to parlay our archery knowledge into a second career, we often look forward to working with "older" students simply for the reasons he stated. Less frustrating, we don't have to "manage" them as much, we don't have to repeat ourselves as often, and last but not least, we don't have to deal with PARENTS! 

So, you just need to find a coach who has your best interest at heart, and you'll do just fine.

And don't underestimate the value of Skype or sending video for analysis. This can be very effective.

John


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## acco205 (Jun 13, 2014)

Elrose said:


> But when I started shooting I didn't expect that my age (19) was determined to be unpromising...coaches are focused on new archers of younger age


FWIW my coach only accepts "older" students for private coaching and only works with younger kids in classes. He said its easier to get things done, especially since the student chose to get a coach, rather than the parent, so they are looking to get more from it (and not waste their money).

What region are you from? I'm sure someone on here knows someone in your area who could be a good fit.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> FWIW my coach only accepts "older" students for private coaching and only works with younger kids in classes.


That's actually not a terrible idea. I can see the merit in that for sure.

John


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## Elrose (Feb 20, 2014)

Thank you all!! I had a lot of time to think and now it's clear to me that archery became an essential part of my life, although I was shooting just for fun at the beginning. Now I can't live without it. So yeah, I was surprised to find out that it was quite difficult to find a coach who would believe in you and take you seriously. To my mind, it's much easier to work with an adult who knows what he/she wants than with a child or teenager forced by parents. 
I found a coach near me and I'm going there on Monday to have the first lesson  so excited!


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