# Shooting off the shelf ?



## bigtone1411 (Nov 3, 2011)

I would only bother to do that if the shelf was flat and not radiused. I have one metal ILF riser with a relatively flat shelf where that was necessary. The rest of my bows have a radius shelf.


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

mrjeffro said:


> For you guys who shoot off the shelf, do you put something under the shelf material to give it a little " bump" to elevate the arrow ? Is there an advantage to doing this? I am referring to recurves
> 
> Thank you


As I understand it?...the advantage to doing such is to raise the arrows nocking point on the string which in turn moves the finger position of a 3under shooters string hand upward on said string and more towards the bows designed center of pull...which can take an even tillered bow which was designed to shoot split and have it shooting as quiet and smooth shooting 3under as it normally would shooting split finger.

Of course this is a move typically intended for use on non-ilf fixed limb bows.


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

If the shelf is crowned and radiused, no need. If not, I add a toothpick or something similar. The reason is to minimize contact.


----------



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

What they said...no need if the shelf has already got a radius.


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

JINKSTER said:


> As I understand it?...the advantage to doing such is to raise the arrows nocking point on the string which in turn moves the finger position of a 3under shooters string hand upward on said string and more towards the bows designed center of pull


This is one very good reason to do it. It can also make an otherwise noisy bow, shoot considerably quieter without having to shoot a real high nocking point.

Other reasons - yep, to get clearance on flat shelves. I do it whether radius or flat.

Rick


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

It depends on the contours of the shelf areas, your taste, and tuning desires. 

Some recurve shelves and side rest areas are nicely curved, already presenting a fairly precise launching pad for the arrow. Others may have lesser degrees of curvature, and some are just plain flat on either the shelf, side rest, or both. 

A bump under the material provides a very specific area, either under or to the side, for the shaft to rest against. It performs similarly to an elevated rest and allows both points upon which the shaft sits to be adjacent to each other no matter the nock/shelf shaft angle. You can also use the side rest bump to aid in tuning the bow by thickening or thinning the bump in order to weaken or stiffen the dynamic flight of the arrow.

An elevated rest is a great option for a too-flat shelf or side rest. But if one prefers not to use an elevated rest, or wants to keep the shaft as low as possible on a flat shelf, the bump technique will accomplish this.

I don't use a bump simply to "elevate" the arrow, although some shooters may find a tiller feel that they desire with a higher bump based upon their tuning observations. I only use a bump if the arcs of the rest area are too vague or flat, are cut poorly, are overly unmatched at under and side, or I need to move the shaft away from center for a tuning purpose.


----------



## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Rick Barbee said:


> This is one very good reason to do it. It can also make an otherwise noisy bow, shoot considerably quieter without having to shoot a real high nocking point.
> 
> Other reasons - yep, to get clearance on flat shelves. *I do it whether radius or flat.*
> 
> Rick


I use a wooden matchstick, and definitely got better results with this on the radiused shelf Wallace bow.

My new hybrid longbow has the shelf and wall designed with matching peaks for minimal contact. No matchstick needed.


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Big C, 

I hear ya. Some bows are crafted with magnificently matched radii and simply demand to be shot with no more than the skimpiest of material draping the curves (I hereby dub these "lingerie bows").

I have one particular bow that looks, feels, and tastes like it should perform well off of its shelf. I've wrangled this bow on and off for several years, rotating between elevated rests, bumped shelving, and flat shelving material. It shoots best with an elevated rest, and next best with the bump. It's matching and ample radii look like they should perform nicely in lingerie ... but they seem to resist my best efforts. Could be a tiller demand combined with my draw configuration.

Whatever. The proof is always in the various puddings, and often a sampling of each is needed to obtain optimum flight on a particular bow.


----------



## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

I shoot my Hoyts off the shelf for IBO and ASA....however I don't lay the arrow tight to the shelf...I build it up to the same height as the plunger hole..maybe it helps,maybe it matters,maybe it doesnt....I feel the whole entire riser was designed around the plunger hole and why lay the arrow 3/4" lower than that.


Dewayne Martin


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I picked up an old Browning and was advised that particular model had been constructed with the intention of using an elevated rest 1/2" above the shelf. It has a flat side area and just a hint of curvature on the shelf ... basically flat ... so the advice I received seemed apt. I put a Bear Weather Rest on it and the bow shoots nicely, so I feel no need to test any other waters on that particular bow.


----------



## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Yes, flat and radius. Also do it under the strike plate. I make the bumps line up with each other. Minimal contact on clearly defined pressure points.


----------



## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

We are belaboring this but shooting off the shelf we don't have as many ways tune our bows and arrows to each other as the target shooters do. So we do what we can to get them shooting perfectly. This is we can do, both on the shelf and on the side plate. So it is worth careful thought and experimentation. How accurate do you want to be? - lbg


----------



## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Cheaters... :laugh:


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

vabowdog said:


> I shoot my Hoyts off the shelf for IBO and ASA....however I don't lay the arrow tight to the shelf...I build it up to the same height as the plunger hole..maybe it helps,maybe it matters,maybe it doesnt....I feel the whole entire riser was designed around the plunger hole and why lay the arrow 3/4" lower than that.
> 
> 
> Dewayne Martin


That is how I think - if I were to shoot a riser like that I would do the same - because obviously the engineers designed the bows to be shot a certain way - and those risers were designed to be shot with a rest - a bow that was designed to be shot off the shelf I would shoot off the shelf with nothing to raise it.

The idea that raising the shelf and holding higher on the string will make a bow that is shot three under as quiet as a bow that is shot split is simply not the case - no matter what you do - no matter how you tiller or adjust the tiller - a bow shot three under will always be louder than the same bow shot split. This is not to say that you cannot make it quiet enough for hunting, etc... - but the bow will still be quieter shot split. 

When I first got my ILF I played with it for a couple of weeks - I tried all different tiller adjustments and even for the heck of it put on one of those stick on rests thinking the same thing that if I gripped the string higher it would be as quiet as shooting split - but it was not. I ended up adjusting it for 3 under as recommended in the manual - setting the brace to the highest recommendation and shooting it off the shelf - and then tuning it to perfection - and this bow is ALMOST as quiet as shooting it split - but not quite - and it is quieter than any of my Widows were.


----------



## Tajue17 (Aug 18, 2005)

if you have a bad follow thru and you torque the bow then put a tooth pic either under or under the plate where the edge of the deepest part of the grip is underneith which acts as a spacer so the arrow doesnt deflect at release, I use to use the toothpick trick and it did help but it didn't fix my problem so I shoot with the shelf flat now and fixed the torquing problem cold turkey because I had to.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

mrjeffro said:


> For you guys who shoot off the shelf, do you put something under the shelf material to give it a little " bump" to elevate the arrow ? Is there an advantage to doing this? I am referring to recurves
> 
> Thank you


Yes... and my hybrids as well... :grin:


----------



## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)




----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I love the riser of the Buffalo - I wish that those guys at Hoyt would have made it ILF - what a dumb decision on their part - I would have bought one in a heart beat.


----------



## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

sharpbroadhead said:


> I love the riser of the Buffalo - I wish that those guys at Hoyt would have made it ILF - what a dumb decision on their part - I would have bought one in a heart beat.


Yes, it is perfectly designed to shoot off the shelf with a minumum of material on it. Of course you could buy a riser and a set of F4 or F7 limbs and you'd have a real shooter.

My Titan III I shoot off of a TRAP feather rest and a furniture pad for a side plate. It also shoots great.


----------



## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

"I love the riser of the Buffalo - I wish that those guys at Hoyt would have made it ILF - what a dumb decision on their part - I would have bought one in a heart beat. "

It took "Detroit" a long time to think about new tooling. It may have been to late?

The computer industry is starting to see "passive cooling" and low wattage CPUs/systems as what many consumers want. Lots of these systems for offer this month.

Perhaps Hoyt will come out with some new stuff? Go USA!


----------



## Greenjoytj (Aug 10, 2013)

On my Hoyt Buffalo I installed a elevated rest. It's just a chip of leather 1/4" high, 5/8" long and almost 3/8" wide. The non arrow sides (front, back, outboard) are shaved down on a 45 degree taper. This rest is fixed to the shelf with thin yet powerful 3M double back foam tape. I mount the rest slightly away from the Hoyt hair plate this gap is so wide as to allow my xx75 2016 shaft to be supported by the rest edge at about an 8 o'clock position on the arrow. This leaves a good gap for the lower hen feather to move across shelf passing between the leather rest and hair plate.
I have install these leather chip rests on all my bows.


----------



## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

sharpbroadhead said:


> those risers were designed to be shot with a rest - a bow that was designed to be shot off the shelf I would shoot off the shelf with nothing to raise it.


Question...

Aside from whether the shelf is radiused or not, what goes into a riser design that would make it better or worse to shoot off a shelf or an elevated rest?


----------



## standardtoaster (Jun 4, 2013)

I shoot a samick sage. should I be shooting off the shelf if I shoot split finger? I'm currently using a cheap plastic arrow rest lined up with the plunger hole.


----------



## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

BarneySlayer said:


> Question...
> 
> Aside from whether the shelf is radiused or not, what goes into a riser design that would make it better or worse to shoot off a shelf or an elevated rest?


Some flat rests are very wide like the Titan III so you need something to get the arrow up a little. That's why I used a feather rest. If you ever closely looked at a Buffalo it is a very narrow radiused rest, perfect for off the shelf out of the box arrow flight.


----------



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Having a radiused shelf would be it - and I would assume as vabowdog does, that if a riser is designed to be shot off a shelf vs a rest there is about an inch difference in where the arrow would be nocked - and also I would assume that the arrow would be closer to the hand on a bow designed to be shot off the shelf verses one where you are building up the shelf.

But even if this design aspect is not accurate (I don't know much about design) I would not want to be cutting pieces of wood or using furniture pads, etc... to make a shelf that I could shoot off of - to me that is one more thing that could go wrong in the field, not to mention it is ugly as heck.


----------



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

I always put a toothpick under my shelf material. I like to have as little contact or drag on my arrows...but to be honest...it probably makes very little difference...except on shelves that are non-radiused.

Ray :shade:

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I can see an issue with flat shelves, in that as the bow kicks back during launch, a flat shelf, when rotated, will change the resting position.I was wondering 
if there was some kind of cortical tuning issue with the riser, maybe associated with tiller. So far, seems like nothing that some build up or a grinder couldn't fix


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Standardtoaster, 

Those cheap plastic arrow rests are some of the best arrow launching pads on the planet. Split-finger is fine with them. There are several different styles of these elevated rests and you may favor one over the other as time goes by.

You can always experiment by taking it off and placing leather or another material of choice on the shelf and side plate to see how that shoots for a few days or weeks (Barge cement becomes a good friend for this purpose and is easily removed and rubbed off with the finger). Commit to it over enough time to make a good comparison and get used to it. You will need to readjust your nocking point appropriately.

If successful and improved (or you just plain like it better) - you are a winner. If it's a fail, then simply glue or double-side tape the elevated rest back into place and readjust your nocking point.


----------

