# Wiawis NS graphene foam vs. NS wood flax



## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

Great comparison. Thanks for sharing.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

> Wiawis ATF riser, bolts flush on limbs (almost all the way down) and 41.0lbs otf.
> NS foam = 190-191fps.
> 
> Wiawis ATF riser, bolts flush on limbs, 40.70lbs otf
> NS wood = 189-190fps.


Correction, I tested the limbs on a different chrono and it read 199fps for NS foams and 198 with the NS woods. I think this is closer to reality in case people are comparing fps between bows.


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## fader (May 17, 2010)

Great review. I've also shot with the NS foam. 34# medium with 27.5" draw length. They are truly a quick limb. And I bought them for that reason. With a low draw weight, and outdoor season approaching, I wanted to milk every ounce of speed that I could from my setup (As Fango has mentioned previously, California loves it's 90m). They are however, stiff at full draw. And coming from my MK Inpers, which are buttery smooth, the wall on the back end of the NS's was too uncomfortable for me. 

Now, I've actually owned a pair of NS limbs previously. I was coming off of shooting EX Primes. And I'd have to say that I didn't notice the stack as much then. It's only when shooting them after using the MK's for a while that it was very noticeable. But, I do like a bit more of a wall at full draw than the Inpers provide. So, I'm going to give the NS woods a try. They should be arriving in a couple of days. I'll report back with my impression of them later.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I want your archery budget. LOL


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## Boltsmyth (Nov 16, 2002)

THANK YOU! That was a great review. Very informative.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> I want your archery budget. LOL


Hahaha, This has been accumulation of many years of slowly bargain hunting, trading, and selling to arrive at what I have now. I'm actually quite proud that my archery spending has been very self contained this last year. :laugh: I actually waited to post this review until I sold my NS-Foams to replace with another set of NS-woods since I didn't really like that they felt for me ;p I tried to be as objective as I can for the review since I appreciate some archers have different preferences than me. The benefit to all this trading is that I know exactly what I want and like from equipment. 

The money that has been going into archery nowadays are usually tournament associated fees (which are ridiculously expensive for the USATs and national tournaments :sad: )


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

fader said:


> Great review. I've also shot with the NS foam. 34# medium with 27.5" draw length. They are truly a quick limb. And I bought them for that reason. With a low draw weight, and outdoor season approaching, I wanted to milk every ounce of speed that I could from my setup (As Fango has mentioned previously, California loves it's 90m). They are however, stiff at full draw. And coming from my MK Inpers, which are buttery smooth, the wall on the back end of the NS's was too uncomfortable for me.
> 
> Now, I've actually owned a pair of NS limbs previously. I was coming off of shooting EX Primes. And I'd have to say that I didn't notice the stack as much then. It's only when shooting them after using the MK's for a while that it was very noticeable. But, I do like a bit more of a wall at full draw than the Inpers provide. So, I'm going to give the NS woods a try. They should be arriving in a couple of days. I'll report back with my impression of them later.


Yeah, I think if you have the fortune of owning both NS-woods and NS-foams simultaneously, you'll notice the dramatic difference I did when I went from the foams to the woods. I really wanted to love the NS-foams but especially after I shot the NS-woods,I realized they just aren't for me. In fact, when I switched between my EX-primes and NS-foams back before the NS-woods were released, the signs were already there. When I shot the EX Primes, I thought "wow these feel right at home" and when I went back to the NS-foams it just felt stiff. I think you'll like the woods if you like the Inpers since they have very similar feel (most of my students shoot inpers)

I'm eager to hear your impressions once you put some arrows through.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

fango0000 said:


> Hahaha, This has been accumulation of many years of slowly bargain hunting, trading, and selling to arrive at what I have now. I'm actually quite proud that my archery spending has been very self contained this last year. :laugh: I actually waited to post this review until I sold my NS-Foams to replace with another set of NS-woods since I didn't really like that they felt for me ;p I tried to be as objective as I can for the review since I appreciate some archers have different preferences than me. The benefit to all this trading is that I know exactly what I want and like from equipment.
> 
> The money that has been going into archery nowadays are usually tournament associated fees (which are ridiculously expensive for the USATs and national tournaments :sad: )


I'm sitting here still shooting the same two pairs of SKY Carbon Jacks that I bought from Ann Hoyt for $200/pr. LOL I guess that makes me cheap!


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## fader (May 17, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> I'm sitting here still shooting the same two pairs of SKY Carbon Jacks that I bought from Ann Hoyt for $200/pr. LOL I guess that makes me cheap!


Naw. I probably just means that you have a kid that you're putting through college, lol


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> I'm sitting here still shooting the same two pairs of SKY Carbon Jacks that I bought from Ann Hoyt for $200/pr. LOL I guess that makes me cheap!


I bet these two pairs of NS woods will be my in my bag for a loooong time lol.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

fango0000 said:


> I bet these two pairs of NS woods will be my in my bag for a loooong time lol.


It really is incredible how long a good pair of limbs will last. My Sky Jacks have outlasted so many other pairs now I've lost track. I hope your NS woods do the same for you!


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Awesome review.

When you talked about preference on the draw feel it made me think about some comments on Border Hex limbs, I found the softness at the end of the draw almost distracting and found that having to work that last bit of expansion actually helped me make cleaner and more repeatable shots.

The Border fans cannot comprehend that this feeling is desirable to some Archers.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Agreed Steve. Borders left me feeling completely "lost" at the clicker when I had become accustomed to pulling against a slight stack. And you're correct that the Border fans are confused by that idea. Jim Belcher made me some bamboo core SKY limbs that were nearly the same. I think a person gets used to a certain draw force curve and that helps them know where they are in reaching their draw length. This might be even more important to a barebow archer than a recurve archer.


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

Big assumption there, and an incorrect at that. I might as well say that "normal" limb shooters don't understand that some archers prefer not to pull into a dead back wall of stack that fights against expansion.

I've met plenty of people who prefer a "stacky" feeling at full draw, or at least, the standard 2lbs/in that limbs of a normal geometry give. If that's what you like, then it's no skin off my nose at all (unless I'm shooting barebow and tip my nose over a little too far to the right  )

I do agree that people get used to the feel of a bow; I just don't think it takes that long. After a night of shooting my HEX7.5s the draw feels quite normal as my body makes the adjustment. Then when I switch to my CV-H limbs they feel harder to pull at the back even though they're 4lbs lighter, but again, a few ends and I'm settled right in.

Shoot what makes you happy, and don't take issue with those who do the same, and you'll have a much happier life as an archer. Enjoy your weekends, all.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

I've been very careful not to poke the Border cult since they are quite passionate about their limbs (and I think rightfully so.) But you are right, the HEX geometry borders and and even the extra curve Uukhas (VX1000 Xcurve and VX+) leave me with that exact feeling of lost at the clicker. I find that if I shoot those limbs for a long period of time, my alignment and anchor begins to break down a little bit. I appreciate the ease of breaking the clicker and I think for some people who don't have as strong back tension, ease through the clicker is desired. However, it is definitely not the feeling for me. 



> This might be even more important to a barebow archer than a recurve archer.


You know this always baffled me about border HEX limbs and the BB community. I've always thought that since you have no clicker to lean on for a draw check, a softness at the back wall would be undesirable since it promotes more variance. But it seems like I mostly see the HEX limbs being used in the BB community. Perhaps I don't understand since I'm a target archer and the guys pulling 70lb HEX limbs for hunting really need that HEX geometry. The collegiate club I coach has a ton of barebows and I've always leaned them towards a conventional limb if they ask for my opinion so they have a little more resistance in the back to brace against.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

> Shoot what makes you happy, and don't take issue with those who do the same, and you'll have a much happier life as an archer.


Haha that's the stance I take whenever I talk about equipment nowadays with fellow archers. 

The times you run into trouble is when there are multiple coaches in the same club with different opinions about the equipment in question or if you have a student with multiple coaches. However, that is a can of worms in itself lol.


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

Seeing as you ask (I've shot HEX limbs BB and target recurve style), I feel no problem with the smoothness at full draw at all. It's a great feeling not to have to struggle against stack for me. Also, even if you do creep forwards marginally because of the smoothness, there's less difference in the weight than there would be if you're shooting a conventional limb. That is, if you creep 1/8in with a limb that's putting on 2lbs/in at full draw, that's a greater weight variation than if you do the same with a bow that's putting on 0.5lbs/in at full draw.

Hope you're enjoying your W&Ws. They look good 

And yes, brand loyalties within clubs can be very political, just as they can in forums. Your approach is a good one


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

There is a lot of (too much IMO) "monkey see, monkey do" in this sport. Pity considering all the great choices we have today compared to even just 15 years ago.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

We have three basic feels, those that feel like stack at the last 1-2" draw, those that feel smooth from start to finish and those that feel heavy at the start and smooth out on the last 1-2" of draw 

Personally the second option gives me the best scores (confirmed by my Field/Indoor scores) limbs like my MK1440's are very smooth right through the draw, that feeling is obviously personal but important if you're not using a clicker. 

None limb type is incorrect, it's just about what allows you to get the best out of your shooting.

Very few WA Barebow Stringwalkers use Hex limbs, a few use Uukha but most use conventional profile.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

From 8 to 3 years ago - Hoyt F3 (wood core), and Hoyt F7 (wood core), Hoyt Quattro (wood core) were a little stacky, but I had no issue with coming through the clicker (actually, I started to struggle with that a little bit with the Quattros).

From 3 years ago to this winter - Quattros, then WinWin NS (foam) ... very stiff at the clicker ... I struggled to get through the clicker due to the stiffness on the back end. I'd get 'right there' and then .... nothing; just a wall of resistance I couldn't expand through with precision

Now - Hoyt X-Tour bamboo .... butter smooth through the clicker, not struggling to break the clicker.

Moral: for me, getting older and having less punch in my bowl has made 'butter smooth' a much more important factor at the moment of truth.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I really, really struggle with too much smoothness at full draw. Now that I only shoot very, very rarely I can pick best of both worlds, and shoot Border Carbon's from the 90's which stack just fine. And are by far my most comfortable feeling limbs, now that I can't handle the 50ish pounds of the old Sky's I have.


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## fader (May 17, 2010)

fango0000 said:


> Yeah, I think if you have the fortune of owning both NS-woods and NS-foams simultaneously, you'll notice the dramatic difference I did when I went from the foams to the woods. I really wanted to love the NS-foams but especially after I shot the NS-woods,I realized they just aren't for me. In fact, when I switched between my EX-primes and NS-foams back before the NS-woods were released, the signs were already there. When I shot the EX Primes, I thought "wow these feel right at home" and when I went back to the NS-foams it just felt stiff. I think you'll like the woods if you like the Inpers since they have very similar feel (most of my students shoot inpers)
> 
> I'm eager to hear your impressions once you put some arrows through.


I took the woods out for a spin today. I put about 100 shots through them. In my opinion you are spot on with your comparison between the foam and wood. The difference between the two in terms of feel is significant. The wood felt much smoother under the clicker. Much less stacking. I was surprised. And you were right... They felt more like my Inpers than I would've guessed. 

On the flip side, they didn't feel as quick or as crisp. But, they tuned to my arrows more or less the same. So that leads me to believe that the speed from the NS woods is at least comparable to the foam.

A few other notes about the NS wood: They look gorgeous. They have a gloss finish front and back, unlike the foam that has a gloss front and matte back. And it's interesting viewing them from the side - the wood layer is quite thin. Carbon is clearly the dominant element here. 

In summary, I think that the NS woods are a formidable limb. I'll be shooting these for the foreseeable future and I'm glad that I made the switch.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Awesome, glad you like them and made the switch. I've been really enjoying mine every time I take them out. I really wanted to love the foams but alas, they just didn't get along with me haha.


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## lightning25 (Jul 18, 2017)

there's a limb review still sitting out on youtube including the EX primes and their speed was 191fps


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## dzinn (Jul 31, 2011)

How do you like the NS wood limbs?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

John_K said:


> Seeing as you ask (I've shot HEX limbs BB and target recurve style), I feel no problem with the smoothness at full draw at all. It's a great feeling not to have to struggle against stack for me. Also, even if you do creep forwards marginally because of the smoothness, there's less difference in the weight than there would be if you're shooting a conventional limb. That is, if you creep 1/8in with a limb that's putting on 2lbs/in at full draw, that's a greater weight variation than if you do the same with a bow that's putting on 0.5lbs/in at full draw.
> ......


Agree... variation of poudage /mm at your draw lenght (stacking ?) is important in realtionship to your shooting style. 

Making it simple:
- Clicker, pushing --> hard wall better
- Clicker, push pull ---> hard wall still better
- Cliker, pulling --> soft wall better 
- Bare Bow, any ---> soft wall better

Korean style is in options 1 and 2 

Specifically on Bare Bow, as there is no draw lenght indicator, and also string walking changes draw lenght . you basically need limbs that do not have dramatic changes of speed for few mm variation in draw lenght. Using an old compound suggestion, BB you should be shooting limbs "in the middle of the wall" and this explains why super curved limbs have been of preference to some BB shooters.


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

Vittorio said:


> Agree... variation of poudage /mm at your draw lenght (stacking ?) is important in realtionship to your shooting style.
> 
> Making it simple:
> - Clicker, pushing --> hard wall better
> ...


Thank you for the clarity 
Nick


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

Interesting insight, Vittorio. Thank you


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

Though this does raise a question: many of the reviews I've read of the more recent Hoyt offerings and MK Veracity limbs seem to suggest that they are smoother than W&W limbs at full draw. And yet, a fair number of Koreans choose these limbs to shoot with, rather than W&W. How does this fit with your personal observations? Is it simply that the Koreans we see at international shoots are just a small sample of the active archers of that country, and as a whole they tend to prefer limbs that are less smooth at full draw?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

John_K said:


> Though this does raise a question: many of the reviews I've read of the more recent Hoyt offerings and MK Veracity limbs seem to suggest that they are smoother than W&W limbs at full draw. And yet, a fair number of Koreans choose these limbs to shoot with, rather than W&W. How does this fit with your personal observations? Is it simply that the Koreans we see at international shoots are just a small sample of the active archers of that country, and as a whole they tend to prefer limbs that are less smooth at full draw?


Frankly I have no direct experience with the recent MK limbs, so I can only try to guess:

1) Not all limbs are made equal, depending from lenght and draw lenght
2) What you see used at top level is not what you get in the shops. 

Never suppose that what you see used by real top level shooters has anything to do with commercial products sold under same label and name. Usually top level sponsored archers get limbs tailor made to their draw lenght and shooting preference

By the way, you can see the difference among W&W limbs correlating the style of shooting of each Korean lady to the limbs they use. Specifically, have a look to the limbs used by those using the now on fashion "aggressive" release.


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

Thank you again, Vittorio. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply


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## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

John_K said:


> Though this does raise a question: many of the reviews I've read of the more recent Hoyt offerings and MK Veracity limbs seem to suggest that they are smoother than W&W limbs at full draw. And yet, a fair number of Koreans choose these limbs to shoot with, rather than W&W. How does this fit with your personal observations? Is it simply that the Koreans we see at international shoots are just a small sample of the active archers of that country, and as a whole they tend to prefer limbs that are less smooth at full draw?


My Korean friends mostly shoot W&W, but lately a bunch of them are trying out Hoyt bows, and I also noticed that every single one of them is either using W&W limbs if ILF, or MK if Formula. Unfortunately, though, last time I tried asking why I couldn't fully understand what they were trying to say, but I think they were talking about the speed, not smoothness. I'll try to ask again and I'll post if I get any interesting insight.



> What you see used at top level is not what you get in the shops.


I have a slightly different opinion on this, specially concerning the Koreans. First of all, these guys are at such a high level that no company in their right mind would refuse them equipment; it's just easy marketing. But more importantly, many Korean archers are not really sponsored directly by archery manufacturers, but rather by some other Korean company that is often independent of the industry. Which is why we end up with so many Koreans shooting combinations (like Kim Woojin shooting GMX/MK, Ki Bo Bae shooting GMX/W&W, etc), where sponsored archers from other countries will most often have a full bow from the company from which they receive funding. Even my friends I mentioned have that liberty and can just request and play around with different bows, even though none of them is in the national team right now. In that sense, I feel Koreans are somewhat more independent in their equipment choices.


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