# Barnsdal Redman



## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

I see you guys referring to this bow, but I cannot find it on the barnsdale web site.

What is it, what are your opinions, and where can I see one, along with specs.

Thank you


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## tothepoint (Dec 22, 2006)

Texasguys can tell you all about it.......


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

The Redman was the origional bow that LLoyd Napier started out with. The ones that I have seen aren't particularly a pretty bow, Had fifty percent breakover, but was a really good finger bow. Dave kind of inherited it when he bough out LLoyd's stock. Whether they are still available is anyone's guess... Email Dave and ask.


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> The Redman was the origional bow that LLoyd Napier started out with. The ones that I have seen aren't particularly a pretty bow, Had fifty percent breakover, but was a really good finger bow. Dave kind of inherited it when he bough out LLoyd's stock. Whether they are still available is anyone's guess... Email Dave and ask.


Dave does carry the Redman bows and they are available in 38", 42" and 46" comfugurations. As far as being "not particularly pretty"...well, as they say...it's all in the eyes of the be-holder ...

Perhaps a reason the Redman isn't 'a highly sort after' bow is that they have are a steel cable system. The quality of the steel cables on the Redman is outstanding... 

As a finger shooters bow.....brilliant..


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## luckyhit (Dec 8, 2006)

I think that the bow that Barnsdale calls the "Classic" is the Redman with a few updates.


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## fingershooter1 (Sep 12, 2005)

luckyhit said:


> I think that the bow that Barnsdale calls the "Classic" is the Redman with a few updates.


I beleave you are correct on this one. I have one of the originals I still shoot it.


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

fingershooter1 said:


> I beleave you are correct on this one. I have one of the originals I still shoot it.


Nope...'fraid not....the bow geometry is perhaps similar.

The Redman is from another era, but only from from a manufacturing perspective, i.e. steel cable and a heavy riser.

The Classic retains the shootable geometry and offers everything desired by the most discerning, modern thinking archer...without the techno BS...
A non mass produced, specifically configured, light weight, finger shooting delight.


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## fingershooter1 (Sep 12, 2005)

OK thanks for clearing that up


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

*Randall*

I know you work pretty closely with Dave , .... a question , not a bash , just a question .. how come they are staying with the steel cables ?? havent been around one of those , I assume he has all kinds of adjustability built into the cable yokes ??? The old PSEs used to pop tear drops pretty frequently , what is better about these , I have never heard of one having a problem , Thanks for your answer , Dan


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## luckyhit (Dec 8, 2006)

*Barnsdale "Redman"*

This is the description for the Classic copied from the Barnsdale website

www.barnsdalearchery.com

*******************************************
This is where it all started. Designed and introduced by Loyd Napier around 1991, this bow has won countless national, state and local championships.
The Barnsdale Classic takes this proven design and perfects it. The riser is now lighter, sleeker and perfectly balanced while retaining the original geometry and the rock solid, time proven hard yoke, adjustable aircraft cables and original wheel design.

What you get is a bow that is a dream to set up and once set, it stays there. Many people say they haven't had to re-tune these bows for two years or more. This equals more time shooting and less time tuning for today's busy archer.
*******************************************


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Steel cables don't creep... They are either where they belong, or they're broken. nothing in between..


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

yep , understood .... it is kinda refreshing to see some " older technology " being used ....... just wondering why in todays world


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

Glad to see some interest in the Barnsdale bows on this thread......I've tried to limit my praise lately about this bow......I think a couple guys felt I was trying to promote it a little too much.  

On the Barnsdale website, Dave refers to the "Classic" and the "Ultimate" models......the "Ultimate" uses Wedel cams and shoot-thru......the "Classic" uses Dave's personally-designed Tri-Star wheels and shoot-thru.....
both models are also offered in a cable-guard version.....

I and/or we probably should stop calling these bows the "Barnsdale/Redman" and simply refer to them as "Barnsdale bows".....it would create less confusion for the guys who don't know about the Loyd Napier/Redman history behind these bows......

I had Dave re-rig my old Redman with Tri-Stars and 452x cables/string.....now shoots MUCH quieter than it did with steel-cables and hard-yoke.....BOTH configurations are butter-smooth to draw and have tack-driving accuracy for FINGER-SHOOTERS, especially! :wink:

But if a guy really wants the steel-cable version, go for it! (Especially if it's strictly for target-shooting and the sound of the shot is of no concern....) I can personally vouch for the fact that once those steel cables and wheels are timed/tuned (which takes only about 5-10 minutes), they WILL stay that way.....I checked mine after 22 months of daily shooting, and they had not budged at all from their orginal setting!


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

TexasGuy;

Are you shooting the Tristars with a larger wheel on top or both the same size????


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## luckyhit (Dec 8, 2006)

*Cable guard and torque*

Texas guy,

I know that you are shooting the cable guard setup on your Barnsdale as you answered that question before.

When this is set up on the 3-track wheels, is that simply leaving off one of the side cables and installing the cable guard? If so, does that leave the string on true center and one cable track on the inside strung up?

Do you think that creates any additional torque compared to a typical 2-track wheel or cam setup where the string track and cable track are both offset from the center to somewhat balance eachother.

Probably a pointless question as the proof of the pudding is always in the eating.... and we all know how Barnsdales shoot. Just wondering.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I'm not the Texas Guy, I shoot a Barnsdale classic with Tristars and an upper cable guard. It looks like it is a little off kilter, and that was worrisome for me, but I don't seem to see any effects from it..


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

Unclegus said:


> TexasGuy;
> 
> Are you shooting the Tristars with a larger wheel on top or both the same size????


Unclegus,

I'm shooting the staggered-size Tri-Stars (larger-diameter wheel on top-limb, smaller on bottom-limb).......55% let-off....

However, in a recent conversation with Dave Barnsdale, he believes that equal-size wheels top and bottom may be a slightly better way to go for finger-shooters (for guys who shoot split-finger, index above arrow, middle and ring finger below arrow).....

Next Barnsdale I buy (really want to give the shoot-thru system an honest trial with fingers and the "doovawhoppi" cable-spreaders in place), I will likely get the equal-size wheels......


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

Luckyhit / Kriss,

When a Barnsdale is set-up in true shoot-thru mode, it has four (4) cables on it (plus the actual bow-string)......precisely equal tension is maintained across the entire width of both limbs......the bowstring itself is lined-up directly down the exact center of both limbs.....unlike a cable-guard bow (which applies some degree of side-torque to the limbs during the draw-cycle), the shoot-thru system allows the arrow to be fired precisely down the center of the limbs with equal degrees of "force", if you will, across the entire width of the limbs.....

In my opinion (and rapidly becoming the opinion of hundreds of archers around the world), the true 3-track, shoot-thru system is the most accurate, most forgiving and most balanced configuration that a compound bow can be shot in today...... 

Being an old "cable-guard guy" that shoots strictly with fingers, a true shoot-thru has always worried me regarding the arrow-shaft (or fletching), making contact with the cables after a finger-release and screwing-up my accuracy.....

However, now that Dave has added his unique "doovawhoppi" cable-spreaders to both the upper and lower cable-rigging on his shoot-thru system, guys shooting fingers are talking about being able to shoot 5", helical feathers thru this set-up with no contact!  

A true 3-track, shoot-thru Barnsdale will definitely be the next bow I purchase....


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

luckyhit said:


> Texas guy,
> 
> I know that you are shooting the cable guard setup on your Barnsdale as you answered that question before.
> 
> ...


Kriss,

In cable-guard configuration, it actually leaves-off two of the four side- cables......yes, the bowstring itself still runs down the center of the limbs, however, side-torque from the cable-guard is exerted as the draw-cycle begins......

Please don't think this is a huge problem, however......cable-guard bows have been drilling the "x" for many years.....

A true, 3-track shoot-thru system simply refines the mechanical principles of shooting a compound bow to the best it can be.....:smile:


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

ia bhtr said:


> I know you work pretty closely with Dave , .... a question , not a bash , just a question .. how come they are staying with the steel cables ?? havent been around one of those , I assume he has all kinds of adjustability built into the cable yokes ??? The old PSEs used to pop tear drops pretty frequently , what is better about these , I have never heard of one having a problem , Thanks for your answer , Dan


The Redman bows were built with steel cables and dave has a lot of the cables in his inventory...

The Classics and Ultimate bows Dave builds now do come with synthetic cables. On these bows, the wheels and cams have been machined to accept the synthetic cables as opposed to steel cables...

Point of interest...there are some very hi class shooters playing around with steels cable bows for indoor set-ups. 

The most obvious advantage to steel cables is the minimal change to tune...through stretch...whether from the offects of the weather...or usage.

The downside of steel cables....."expense" ....and eventually they do need to be replaced......more expensive to produce..more expensive to maintain...thus the reason for synthetic cables...


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

aussiearcher said:


> The Redman bows were built with steel cables and dave has a lot of the cables in his inventory...
> 
> The Classics and Ultimate bows Dave builds now do come with synthetic cables. On these bows, the wheels and cams have been machined to accept the synthetic cables as opposed to steel cables...
> 
> ...



Excellent points, Randall!! 

Steel cables went "out of vogue" with big manufacturer's (in favor of synthetic cables) for one reason only.....their expense......and NOT because any of the modern synthetics offered any significant performance benefits......

The Redman's steel cabling was unlike the "tear-drop" cables used by other manufacturer's.....it does NOT have the tear-drops that the end-loops of the actual bowstring attached to.....the cabling attached (at both ends) to the wheels themselves.....and the end-loops of the actual bowstring fit on pegs on the wheels (just like most "modern" bows).....

A MUCH better and stronger configuration than what most of us remember the old "tear-drop" style to be! :darkbeer:


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

Thanks guys , good answers , & good points ....... lookin for a new bow , not completely sure about my current brand anymore , leanin towards one of Daves bows more & more


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## capool (Aug 5, 2003)

*Barnsdale*

I hear so much about them but I have never see one. I have ordered a couple of bows in the past with out shooting them first and I hated both so what do you do in this case ?


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

*Randall & Texas Guy*

question on the grip in any of Daves bows , 1st are they all the same or is the redman grip different than the Barnsdales ??? next , are they a nice small throat like the hoyts , or are they a fuller , bulkier grip ??? and the shelf , is it kinda big like on the Razors ( wants to bite into your thumb base nuckle ) or is it nicely and comfortably out of the way ??????????? Thanks for your answers guys !!!!!!! Dan


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

capool said:


> I hear so much about them but I have never see one. I have ordered a couple of bows in the past with out shooting them first and I hated both so what do you do in this case ?



Capool,

I see you live in Arkansas.....if I were in your situation, I would call Dave Barnsdale and ask him for some names/address's of guys in Arkansas who have purchased a bow from him lately.....Barnsdale bows are only sold direct from Dave, so he knows where his bows are.....

Then go visit one or more of them and test-shoot the bow first..... 

My guess is you'll like 'em! :darkbeer:


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

ia bhtr said:


> question on the grip in any of Daves bows , 1st are they all the same or is the redman grip different than the Barnsdales ??? next , are they a nice small throat like the hoyts , or are they a fuller , bulkier grip ??? and the shelf , is it kinda big like on the Razors ( wants to bite into your thumb base nuckle ) or is it nicely and comfortably out of the way ??????????? Thanks for your answers guys !!!!!!! Dan


Dan,

My Redman wood-grip was VERY narrow (about like a Hoyt).....super comfortable.....dang near impossible to torque it....personally, I can't stand a big, bulky grip......

On the newest Barnsdale's, Dave has several grip options, the standard is custom wood side-plates and you actually shoot off the riser (kind of like an Apex (if you have seen an Apex grip).....these grips are even narrower than a Hoyt!  

I'll bet Randall could explain the newest grips even better.....:wink:


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

*To all of you guys curious about Barnsdale bows.....*

In all sincerity, I can honestly say that I have only met ONE type of archer/bowhunter who does NOT like the way a Barnsdale shoots....and those are the "speed-demon" guys......you know the type.....the fella's who simply look at the IBO-rating of a bow and decide, strictly from that number, if that is a bow he would be interested in shooting.....

In my 29 years of shooting fingers (recurves and compounds, since I was 18), I have found that 90% of the guys who shoot compounds with FINGERS today are much more interested in:

1) Accuracy above all else......
2) Smooth, comfortable draw.....
3) High quality design, build and finish.....

In these area's, a Barnsdale truly shines.....


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## Hans (Oct 9, 2003)

I have a Barnsdale classic, Classic wheel / steel cable on a 2005 Long riser
ata 46"
great for fingershooting....:wink:


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Man, is that one pretty bow. I have an 04 that is polished aluminum with black limbs. This makes me want another one, but I've decided until I improve things with my shooting, I'm not. It will be a gift to myself when and if I do... Talked to brother Dave by email yesterday, I think I'm going to try the shoot thru with the doovwopie's. Hell, it can't hurt. Has anyone ever seen Dave's bow he won Vegas with that he calls the Barnsdale sampler that has a different finish on each side of each limb??????

Texas Guy, you are absolutely right about the speed freaks. It just absolutely frosts me when I'm shooting in the local shop and someone comes in and they only question they ask is "how fast is this one" Then price.

I think the best one was when I kid in his early twenties came in and wanted a .......(wont' say what). The store manager said "we dont' stock that particular bow because it's very fast, but really critical and hard to shoot..the pros won't even fool with it." The kid replied," How long would it take you to get me one?" Enough said????


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Forgot to add in my long winded ramblings, that I bought my Barnsdale sight unseen. Only pictures on the website. I bought it solely because of Dave's reputation and the hands on aspect of dealing personally with the guy that actually makes and understands the bow. I have not regreted it for one second......


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

ia bhtr said:


> question on the grip in any of Daves bows , 1st are they all the same or is the redman grip different than the Barnsdales ??? next , are they a nice small throat like the hoyts , or are they a fuller , bulkier grip ??? and the shelf , is it kinda big like on the Razors ( wants to bite into your thumb base nuckle ) or is it nicely and comfortably out of the way ??????????? Thanks for your answers guys !!!!!!! Dan



ia bhtr,

Please see Han's picture of his Barnsdale (post #28 of this thread)....the pic shows the slender, narrow grip very well.....:wink:

Also, notice the steel-cabling has no "tear-drops" anywhere....both cabling and bowstring attach directly to the wheels.....superb design......


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## Hans (Oct 9, 2003)

*grip area...*

Over the years I saved some pics I found about the barnsdale bows on my pc....


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

The grip does look narrow & thats how I like them also , I usually get rid of the grip or side plates whichever the bow comes with and just shoot off of the bare riser anyway ........ another question , balance .. how do these bows
sit in your hand especially after the shot when you " dont " have a stab on , do they want to come back with the top limb or tip ahead , or just sit there ????


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

ia bhtr said:


> The grip does look narrow & thats how I like them also , I usually get rid of the grip or side plates whichever the bow comes with and just shoot off of the bare riser anyway ........ another question , balance .. how do these bows
> sit in your hand especially after the shot when you " dont " have a stab on , do they want to come back with the top limb or tip ahead , or just sit there ????



When holding just the bare bow (no sights or stabilizer) in shooting position at arm's length, the upper limb tip will tilt back towards you after the shot.....when a stabilzer is added, it will balance perfectly vertically and just sit there....

(Nearly all strongly-deflexed riser bows will tilt back after the shot....)


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Maby not your cup of tea, but I shoot mine with a 39" Kudlachek Genesis stabilizer and it just sits there. I have other stabilizers and I can just screw which ever one on it and it just sits there without adjusting any weights at all.... Very well balanced. this is one heck of a bow. And trust me, if it wasn't I wouldn't say so.... I did put set of limb savers on mine, but it really didn't need it...


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Excuse me... I didn't read the post well... forgot the glasses. I don't know..Never tried without the stab...


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

Thanks guys , that was what I was looking for , just wanted a mental image of the bow , heard enough to shoot Dave an email & maybe get the ball rolling on one , was going to get my 704th Hoyt ( just kidding , but not much ) ....... I am alomst thinking the Classic with the steel cable set up & carbon limbs , just gonna be for indoors & maybe marked ydg ....... and I sure do like the idea of not having to worry about cable stretch 

and as old as I am , steel cables would bring me back to my roots .......


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I shot nothing but Hoyt since 83 until I got the Classic. Don't see me going back anytime soon after I looked at a Montega up close...


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