# What allows you to shoot fingers?



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I've only shot bows I've made myself, but a friend of mine wants to get started into archery. He likes the idea of shooting with fingers, but has fallen hard for compound bows (he just loves how they look). He wants to shoot fingers, but I don't know what makes a compound incapable of being shot without a release. I want to help him out, but I have no idea. One of the bows he had his eye on was a really short bow sold by Cabelas, the Pursuer XP. He should get a longer bow than that if he still wants to use fingers, right?


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Actually you can shoot any compound with fingers, however if it is to short you'll get a lot of finger pinch cause of the string angle.

Depending on his draw length the longer axel-axel the better. As a rule of thumb I'd say stay away from anything under 40" a-a. Longer is better. If he is still looking to buy a bow have him check out some of the older bows with lengths of 44-48 in on e-bay. That way he can try it w/o investing a lot. 

Another thing he needs to try and find are round wheels or a soft cam as opposed to the newer hard cams. He'll lose speed with a round wheel but it will be a lot smoother, and generally more stable.

He will also need a rest that is designed for finger shooting. It has to have support on the side as well as under the arrow. Some to consider are the NAP centerest, Timberdoodle or Bodoodle, Springy rest, or a flipper style with a plunger.

Hope this helps!


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## big cypress (Jul 31, 2006)

i have a hoyt provantage listed in target bows for sale ,they were well thought of in the past and it would be an inexpensive start . also have a bodoodle pro 500 [?] rest i would sell . in any case good luck to both of you .


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Thanks guys. I know next to nothing about shooting compounds, but still wanted to help him get started into archery. 

One last questions: his draw length is about 26". If he had the bow set on a longer draw length, would that little extra be taken up by his fingers (say he set it one inch more than his draw)- or is a one draw deal, finger pinch being something he's just got to deal with?


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

*Talk him out of fingers!*

If he likes the look of today's shorter A to A bows then he should just forget about fingers.

Shooting with a release is superior to fingers and if his intent is to also hunt then this is a no brainer. Why would a guy not want to take advantage of modern technology that makes him a far more accurate bowhunter?

While I can understand a guy into traditional archery shooting fingers when it comes to compounds not using a release is illogical.

Release all the way!


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

skyhunter said:


> If he likes the look of today's shorter A to A bows then he should just forget about fingers.
> 
> Shooting with a release is superior to fingers and if his intent is to also hunt then this is a no brainer. Why would a guy not want to take advantage of modern technology that makes him a far more accurate bowhunter?
> 
> ...


He's seen me get an arrow out of a quiver, onto the bow, and into the target in about five seconds:wink:. He wants to try and do the same with a compound.

And I'm not exactly sure if he does want to hunt with a bow?


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

skyhunter said:


> Why would a guy not want to take advantage of modern technology that makes him a far more accurate bowhunter?
> 
> While I can understand a guy into traditional archery shooting fingers when it comes to compounds not using a release is illogical.
> 
> Release all the way!


If you don't know the answer to that question. Perhapps you should not be replying to a thread here.


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

kegan said:


> Thanks guys. I know next to nothing about shooting compounds, but still wanted to help him get started into archery.
> 
> One last questions: his draw length is about 26". If he had the bow set on a longer draw length, would that little extra be taken up by his fingers (say he set it one inch more than his draw)- or is a one draw deal, finger pinch being something he's just got to deal with?


If thats his draw lenght with a recurve then that will be his draw lenght with a compound. If the anchor point does not change, his draw lenght won't. At that draw lenght he could go down to about 36 to 37 inches A to A.Although he perhapps start with some thing as long as he is comfortable with.

As for the cam type there are two styles, soft cam out of the valley or hard cam off the back wall. Which you can shoot best with is personal and different archers will have different opinions. Its probablely best to start with soft cams on a bow with a firm back wall. That way he can shoot off the back wall as he gains experience.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*He said illogical...........*

I can shoot see a deer, draw, aim and shoot an accurate arrow in 3-5 seconds with half the movement of a release shooter. I know it is why half the deer I have killed didn't get away. Most deer are shot at under 20 yards so the accuracy thing is a wash. I have killed plenty in the 40 yard range though so really it all comes down to how proficent you want to be. Your buddy already has the finger release down so it should be a no brainer for him. It is unfortunate but he will need to look for an older bow. There are still many older Oneidas, Hoyts and Dartons out there that will fit the bill. Good luck.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*draw length?*

I disagree Jerry I bet his draw will increase at least an inch. I shot recurves for many years and my anchor was not the same as with a compound. Unless he is going to try to snap shoot the compound (I don't recommend) then his draw should increase. 

Here is a little clip on finger shooting accuracy. The video quality sucks from a reformat. Its grainy as hades but look closely and you can see the group. Yeah I live in Arkansas and we are required by law to have a couple of non running cars in the yard, HA HA HA.

http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l301/ibbw/?action=view&current=BEII30.flv


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

skyhunter said:


> If he likes the look of today's shorter A to A bows then he should just forget about fingers.
> 
> Shooting with a release is superior to fingers and if his intent is to also hunt then this is a no brainer. Why would a guy not want to take advantage of modern technology that makes him a far more accurate bowhunter?
> 
> ...


Ouch! If you want to shoot a release I fully respect that. I shoot a compound with fingers because it is the way that I get the most enjoyment out of my hobby. If I wanted the most effective way to put meat in the freezer I would skip the hunting and buy a beef a 1/2 a cow at a time. But I'm married with 2 teenage daughters (all 3 are great gals, but it has it's "drama"), a mortgage and a high pressure job in a crap economy here in Michigan. Archery and Bowhunting need to be a relief from that pressure so I shoot the way that I enjoy it the most. I shot a release for about 10 years and I know that it is a little more accurate. 

This is not a "one size fits all" hobby.


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

I have outshot many release shooters when shooting fingers.

And at hunting distances being able to shoot inside Xs is no advantage over hitting a normal X.

Finger shooting can be very accurate it just takes more time and skill to master!


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

IBBW said:


> I disagree Jerry I bet his draw will increase at least an inch. I shot recurves for many years and my anchor was not the same as with a compound. Unless he is going to try to snap shoot the compound (I don't recommend) then his draw should increase.
> 
> Here is a little clip on finger shooting accuracy. The video quality sucks from a reformat. Its grainy as hades but look closely and you can see the group. Yeah I live in Arkansas and we are required by law to have a couple of non running cars in the yard, HA HA HA.
> 
> http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l301/ibbw/?action=view&current=BEII30.flv


True, that last inch is a lot easier with a compound. Snap shooting, only one type of compound will let him do that lever action ,oneida or monster, not easy though.


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

jerrytee said:


> If you don't know the answer to that question. Perhapps you should not be replying to a thread here.


Perhaps you should not be giving questionable advice to a newcomer.

Bob Foulkrod was a die hard fingers shooter also; but he manged to see the light, choosing to be a better and more accurate shooter when he stubbornly switched to a release.


> I can shoot see a deer, draw, aim and shoot an accurate arrow in 3-5 seconds with half the movement of a release shooter.


"Half the movement of a release shooter". More illogical statements. Where is it exactly that a release shooter is making 2X the movement that you are?


> I shot a release for about 10 years and I know that it is a little more accurate.


For most archers, especially newcomers to the sport, shooting a release is *a lot more accurate*, not " a little", as you say.

Hard to believe guys here are advising a newbie that wants to shoot a modern compound to use fingers.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, he's gotten a bow he can actually shoot fingers with. I don't know what brand or model (he doesn't know yet either), but it was his grandad's years before he hurt his shoulder (he had shot fingers when he was using it- which turned out to be one of the _real_ reasons he wanted to shoot fingers). It's a "long" one at 38", and his father took it to an archery shop to get a new string or cable or whatever for it, and to have it checked over to make sure he can shoot it.

As for learning how to shoot with fingers, I'm doing my best to show him how to. He's not hunting or interested in serious competition, but so far he's doing pretty darn well.

I want to thank eveyrone here for helping me get my friend started into archery when I had no idea what to tell him. Means alot.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

skyhunter said:


> Perhaps you should not be giving questionable advice to a newcomer.
> 
> Bob Foulkrod was a die hard fingers shooter also; but he manged to see the light, choosing to be a better and more accurate shooter when he stubbornly switched to a release."Half the movement of a release shooter". More illogical statements. Where is it exactly that a release shooter is making 2X the movement that you are?For most archers, especially newcomers to the sport, shooting a release is *a lot more accurate*, not " a little", as you say.
> 
> Hard to believe guys here are advising a newbie that wants to shoot a modern compound to use fingers.


....I'm gonna post a few lines to this, and then let it lie...Take away those wrist strap "Punchomatic" releases from probably 90% of the "BowHunters" that I have seen, and they would be lucky to hit a paper plate at 20 yards with regularity..The main problem with "Archery" today is that newbies arent TAUGHT right, right from the start...I know two Pro archers, both shoot on Mathews PRO STAFF, and they agree that most folks SHOULD learn to shoot Fingers first, then a B.T. Release, then onto a triggered release...WHY??...Becuase Finger shooters either learn back tension, or they quickly learn that without it, they cant get consistant..Finger shooting requires back tension, and is much more critical of shooting errors, and if done properly, the arrow is loosed without a concious thought of "Shoot NOW!" when the pin is floating on target..I personally recommend that new shooters start out with a release, unless they want to learn to shoot Fingers...And I do tell them that it's a hard row to hoe...And that they will be ostracised by Folks like this SkyHunter person...As for Bob Foulkrod, what does He have to do with anything?..I watched some of Bob's, and Dan Fitzgerald's hunting video's that they made in the mid to late 80's, and Their shooting wasnt up to snuff...Fingers isnt for everyone, and what in hellmade YOU think that this fella wants to even HUNT with a bow???..L.O.L...It trips Me out how folks get on here, and automatically KNOW what an ARCHERS plans are...L.O.L...I havent shot an arrow at a deer in over 10 years...Is it O.K. if I shoot Fingers, SkyHunter??...L.O.L...Try this, lose the release, and set Yourself up a bow for Fingers, but is still considered a "Hunting" bow...36" to 40" A-T-A...Pin sight, peep, and 12" stabilizer...When You shoot the 20 yard NFAA 5-Spot over 280 points average, and lets say 25 + X's, then go shoot some decent 3-D courses with that bow...You might be surprised how many "Kills" You get...JUST to see how good or bad You shoot...You might have a little bit more fun in the process....Harperman


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## NM_HighPlains (Nov 25, 2005)

Limey said:


> I have outshot many release shooters when shooting fingers.


So have I! 

I have my Ultratec set up for fingers because well, I LIKE shooting fingers! It's fun. It's different. I shoot pretty good with fingers (having done so for 25 of my 30 shooting years).

To answer the question, though, I like a medium ATA (Ultratec is as short as I'd go), 65% let off, and some adjustability in the cam until I'm sure of my fingers drawlength.


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## Protecsafari (Sep 21, 2007)

Uh, back in the early 80's most people shot fingers with their compounds.

I actually feel a bit sorry, for all the kids and adults that never learned to shoot wheels with fingers.

They missed out on a lot of fun.

Fingers isn't better, or worse, it's just different, and in some hunting applications can be of an advantage.

I've shot fingers with front sights, with front sights and peeps, barebow.........and shot well with all of them. 

I think barebow is the most fun though, wish somebody made a 41-43" ATA
compound bow, straight limb, 55% let off with a riser for shelf shooting, a "handicap recurve" so to speak.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

skyhunter said:


> Perhaps you should not be giving questionable advice to a newcomer.
> 
> Bob Foulkrod was a die hard fingers shooter also; but he manged to see the light, choosing to be a better and more accurate shooter when he stubbornly switched to a release."Half the movement of a release shooter". More illogical statements. Where is it exactly that a release shooter is making 2X the movement that you are?For most archers, especially newcomers to the sport, shooting a release is *a lot more accurate*, not " a little", as you say.
> 
> Hard to believe guys here are advising a newbie that wants to shoot a modern compound to use fingers.


skyhunter

The original questions were asked in the finger forum. And the questions were answered from that perspective. I would not expect to ask questions about my Hemi Dodge in a Dodge forum and be told to buy a Chevy. There is a reason this is the most civilized forum at AT, it is because we try to help each other in our diverse approaches to our hobby without flaming each other for equipment or technique preferences.


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

Harperman said:


> ....I'm gonna post a few lines to this, and then let it lie...Take away those wrist strap "Punchomatic" releases from probably 90% of the "BowHunters" that I have seen, and they would be lucky to hit a paper plate at 20 yards with regularity..The main problem with "Archery" today is that newbies arent TAUGHT right, right from the start...I know two Pro archers, both shoot on Mathews PRO STAFF, and they agree that most folks SHOULD learn to shoot Fingers first, then a B.T. Release, then onto a triggered release...WHY??...Becuase Finger shooters either learn back tension, or they quickly learn that without it, they cant get consistant..Finger shooting requires back tension, and is much more critical of shooting errors, and if done properly, the arrow is loosed without a concious thought of "Shoot NOW!" when the pin is floating on target..I personally recommend that new shooters start out with a release, unless they want to learn to shoot Fingers...And I do tell them that it's a hard row to hoe...And that they will be ostracised by Folks like this SkyHunter person...As for Bob Foulkrod, what does He have to do with anything?..I watched some of Bob's, and Dan Fitzgerald's hunting video's that they made in the mid to late 80's, and Their shooting wasnt up to snuff...Fingers isnt for everyone, and what in hellmade YOU think that this fella wants to even HUNT with a bow???..L.O.L...It trips Me out how folks get on here, and automatically KNOW what an ARCHERS plans are...L.O.L...I havent shot an arrow at a deer in over 10 years...Is it O.K. if I shoot Fingers, SkyHunter??...L.O.L...Try this, lose the release, and set Yourself up a bow for Fingers, but is still considered a "Hunting" bow...36" to 40" A-T-A...Pin sight, peep, and 12" stabilizer...When You shoot the 20 yard NFAA 5-Spot over 280 points average, and lets say 25 + X's, then go shoot some decent 3-D courses with that bow...You might be surprised how many "Kills" You get...JUST to see how good or bad You shoot...You might have a little bit more fun in the process....Harperman





kegan said:


> I want to help him out, but I have no idea. One of the bows he had his eye on was a really short bow sold by Cabelas, the Pursuer XP


I apologize for comprehending what the thread starter wrote.


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## Protecsafari (Sep 21, 2007)

Sky,

Copy the whole post next time.

The OP did not mention the bow as dictating shooting method, *method* was mentioned *FIRST*, possible vehicle second (which following posts by others stated was not the best choice).

So..........you have a comprehension issue.

Please take your questions with that to the "health and fitness" forum.


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## bowjunkie2 (Dec 12, 2004)

My friends must SUCK shooting a release....my scores @ 3D using fingers are mostly higher than theirs ! :mg:


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Just checked the top of the page...YUP, this is the FINGER FORUM.


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## jhart75609 (Nov 8, 2005)

I've had many a release shooter trying to catch me on a 3D course. So what? I've shot four deer this year, two with a bow and fingers, one with a .270, and one with a .50 cal. I had to track the ones I shot with a gun, not the bow kills. So what?

The fact of the matter is no matter how well I shoot, I shoot fingers because I want too. Some shoot better than me. So what, someone always will. I like shooting fingers, and probably will shoot this way as long as I can.

Knocking my choice of equipment is a little much though. Usuaully if someone new talks to me about shooting I recommend a release. Let's face it, it's easier. If they want to try fingers I help them down that road, and like was said tell them it 'aint easy. That said there is nothing "wrong" with shooting fingers at any level, or any part of out sport.

Can't we all just get along?? No fighting in the fingers forum!


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Man! there's alot of; So what, Whatever, You gott to be kidding, me, here. 

Skyhunter, you go on a Finger shooter thread and state a release is better, but most of all the thread was'nt even about release vs finger! What were you thinking! That may fly in the general section, but not here. L.O.L


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

skyhunter said:


> If he likes the look of today's shorter A to A bows then he should just forget about fingers. i'm shooting a new Bow Madness XL....ain't no finger pinch on this puppy...magic, simply magic.
> 
> *Shooting with a release is superior to fingers and if his intent is to also hunt then this is a no brainer*. Hmmm, we will have to think about that a little more... Why would a guy not want to take advantage of modern technology that makes him a far more accurate bowhunter?
> A perfect release with fingers..is as perfect as that with a release...When asked...why don't you shoot a release...I answer...cause I can..lol
> ...


If i'm not mistaken, it might appear that you have the attitude...If it's not my way...it's no way....

If you can't shoot a compound with fingers...then so be it, not everyone has the perseverance...

However, why would you seek to discourage those who might like to try....afterall, they come to us who do


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I'd like to apologize for causing so much trouble here. Twas never my intention:zip:.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

kegan said:


> I'd like to apologize for causing so much trouble here. Twas never my intention:zip:.


.....Kegan...No need to apologize..You came to a Finger shooters forum, and asked some questions..Thats what this forum is about, and You needed some answers..No blood, no foul...L.O.L...Tell Your buddy that He needs to start with something a little bit more designed for Finger shooting, meaning more Axle to Axle length, and more brace height, and something with a round wheel, or a soft cam, and low weight let-off...Take Care!....Jim


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Kegan, just to reinforce what Jim has said. 

You caused no trouble at all, this IS the finger forum and is the best place to ask questions about shooting with fingers. 

We have a number of members here who are extremely good archers both with fingers and release, so we don't exclude anyone.

As was well analogised further up the page, you ask a question about a Ford, you don't need an answer about a Chevy  (Sorry for any offence caused by putting the names Ford and Chevrolet in the same sentence).


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Kegan, I've been gone for a few days since I first respondeded to your thread. I'm amazed at what happened to this post. However as everyone has said the info your friend needs to get started is all here. Just cut through all the b.s. and take what your friend needs. No need to apologize to anyone for ever asking a valid question.

Hope we've all been helpful and please feel free to come back on this forum anytime.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

Kegan

Feel free top ask what ever question you want in this forum. Hope I personally did not turn you off with my replies to the release guy. If so then I apologize. The really cool part about this place is that we are so diverse in how we approach our hobby. We trade suggestions and advise without getting "superior" on each other. 

A partial list of interests:
Recurves & Compounds bows
Forgiving & Speed type-bows
Sights & no sights
Stringwalking & facewalking
Target only
Hunting only
3D shooters
Spot Shooters
Field Archers
3, 2 or 1 finger draw techniques
Multiple rest types
and the list goes on...

In short, we are all in this to enjoy archery on whatever terms are ours and share memories with people we care about. 

To answer your original question. I would recommend something in at least 40" ATA, 7 1/2" BH with soft or medium cams. My bow is 45"ATA, 8 1/2" BH with wheel type cams and represents a "traditional" finger bow configuration. Several folks on this forum can succesfully shoot a more agressive setup (less ATA, BH w/speed cams). Hope this and the other suggestions help. Feel free to ask followup questions as needed.

Happy Holidays and God Bless!


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Thanks everyone, for the most part you've all ben very open-minded and helpful. Don is having a great time with his grand dad's old compound, all spiffed up and back from the shop. It's a little too heavy for him, so with the advice from everyone on here he's looking at some bows- and now he knows what to look for.

Thanks again everyone for the help. I appreciate it.


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## FallingCrows (Sep 24, 2007)

I shoot a compound with fingers and have been since I started many years ago.

A release is just one more thing to break or have to fiddle with, when that monster buck shows up. So yes I too disagree with the post about only using a release on compounds.

I can put an arrow on (which you should have on the bow already), draw, aim, and fire on target within 3 - 5 seconds. So again I completely disagree with that other post about only using a release on a compound.

Get a bow that's at least 40" or more with mild cams (65% let off and no more)
I personally like the Whisker Biscuit over the spring. Yes I do loss a bit of speed, but the deer doesn't notice it


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## Hilltoparchery (Apr 12, 2006)

I always answer with, If I wanted to pull a trigger I would shoot a gun.


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## sonofmickel (Dec 12, 2008)

To IBBW:
"I know it is why half the deer I have killed didn't get away."

I would hope that you were able to get ALL the deer you have killed. Well. at least a little better than half of em'. It's not like they are going to get all un-killed or anything like that. A dead dear will usually not fight back or run away either. Death is pretty final...IMO.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*?*

Hmmm........... 80+ kills don't lie. I use what works.

The deer didn't get away because I was able to draw and make the shot so fast. Had I been shooting a release there would have been no way I could have put a shot together fast enough. Make sense?


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