# Good news for PA bowhunters



## PA Dave (Jan 3, 2005)

For years it has been illegal to carry any firearm while bowhunting in PA. We have won a small victory in that soon it will be legal for individuals with carry permits to have their personal protection weapon with them while hunting. It cannot be used to harvest game and is intended only for personal protection.

It is a step in the right direction.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=2503


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## BOOTOXEN (Dec 15, 2005)

how about a week long archery bear season?.....or start a week later let us hunt a week longer?.....how about opening up some of those state or county properties that are closed to hunting for archery only?
Those would be bigger deals then being able to carry your semi 9mm with you.


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## muzzyman88 (Jan 27, 2004)

I agree. Why in the world would you need to carry a firearm while bowhunting? To me, it seems like it would open up a big can of worms in terms of violations and such.

I wish they would concentrate on more important issues like letting us have another week, sunday archery hunting, bear opportunities etc.


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## muzzyman88 (Jan 27, 2004)

I agree. Why in the world would you need to carry a firearm while bowhunting? To me, it seems like it would open up a big can of worms in terms of violations and such.

I wish they would concentrate on more important issues like letting us have another week, sunday archery hunting, bear opportunities etc.


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## Live4Rut (Jul 14, 2004)

What is there in PA that you need to carry a firearm while bowhunting. Big bad black bears??? Maybe some ***** and foxes, those are dangerous Seems like a pretty nice way to start more illegal activities as if we don't already have enough. No reason around here to need a pistol while bowhunting.


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## Trufire06 (Dec 16, 2006)

Live4Rut said:


> What is there in PA that you need to carry a firearm while bowhunting. Big bad black bears??? Maybe some ***** and foxes, those are dangerous Seems like a pretty nice way to start more illegal activities as if we don't already have enough. No reason around here to need a pistol while bowhunting.



Exactly........., i agree with all of you.... wheres the week long bear hunt, this is going to make more people be trigger happy in the woods and do stupid stuff......... nuff said:thumbs_do


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

I wish you could legally carry here in NY. Why you ask? Well , as the man said, personal protection. From what you ask? How about yotes,bears,rabid animals or other hunters who want your deer? 
There is also the outside chance you could run in to a guy like the one who shot all those hunters, I forget where that was but you get the point.


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## PA Dave (Jan 3, 2005)

Exactly, Top Cat. And I don't even own a 9mm semi...but if they ever met up with one of the ridge runners out there. or some of the wild dogs, the others might feel differently.


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## jtkratzer (Dec 22, 2006)

we need more attention being paid to the dwindling herd in pa more than someone carrying a pistol. who cares about your hand gun during archery season. if you need a handgun while archery hunting for protection, either you've pissed off too many people or you're just plain gun happy and probably shouldn't have the gun in the first place.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

wow i'm glad to see that pa is finally taking steps to make hunting in the state a more enjoyable experiece. 

i pitty the next gangsta who tries to treestand jack me or the next thug that jumps out from behind a tree and tries to mug me for my packed lunch
:uzi: :uzi: :fear:


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## BOOTOXEN (Dec 15, 2005)

PA Dave said:


> Exactly, Top Cat. And I don't even own a 9mm semi...but if they ever met up with one of the ridge runners out there. or some of the wild dogs, the others might feel differently.


ok, it might be needed for a few archery hunters.

I wouldn't title this thread- GOOD NEWS FOR PA HUNTERS-
You got me all excited! :smile:


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## Live4Rut (Jul 14, 2004)

jtkratzer said:


> we need more attention being paid to the dwindling herd in pa more than someone carrying a pistol. who cares about your hand gun during archery season. if you need a handgun while archery hunting for protection, either you've pissed off too many people or you're just plain gun happy and probably shouldn't have the gun in the first place.


:thumbs_up


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## deerheaven (Apr 27, 2003)

:thumbs_do


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

Im for it . but can you imagine what would happen if you did crack someone trying to prove they threated your life ! it's almost impossible to prove it when their in your own house trying to kill you !


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

jtkratzer said:


> if you need a handgun while archery hunting for protection, either you've pissed off too many people or you're just plain gun happy and probably shouldn't have the gun in the first place.


Yup, thats me. Pissed off so many people I have to sneak out of the house to to hunting:mg: I shouldn't have a gun in the first place? Is your last name Brady?


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## arrowblaster (Feb 9, 2004)

best thing to do w/ firearm is KILL all the *#_# coyotes that are eating the fawns. Just my .02


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## muzzyman88 (Jan 27, 2004)

I think its senseless. I would love to know just how many people here in PA have either been attacked or threatened by a bear, coyote, rabid animal while hunting.

I've been hunting for 17 years now and have not once felt threatened by a bear. And I've had em awefully close.:mg: 

My father has been hunting since the 50's and has never had one threaten him. Same thing goes for coyotes.

I feel that if you're that afraid of a black bear, you need educated about them a little more.

Now a grizzly is an entirely different critter.


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

OK, lets try this approach. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it:teeth:


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## Live4Rut (Jul 14, 2004)

I'd rather have irresponsible hunters not have it than have it and have extra deer killed with pistols during archery season....


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

> OK, lets try this approach. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it


 agree 100%
I must be thinking differently ! I not once thought about attacking animals ! I was thinking about that guy that got the crap beat out of him & his doe stolen . or that guy out west i think that shot how many hunters in their stands .


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## jtkratzer (Dec 22, 2006)

3drcher48 said:


> best thing to do w/ firearm is KILL all the *#_# coyotes that are eating the fawns. Just my .02


i recently read a report that in pa, the biggest killer of fawns is black bears.



Top Cat said:


> Yup, thats me. Pissed off so many people I have to sneak out of the house to to hunting:mg: I shouldn't have a gun in the first place? Is your last name Brady?


i like the sarcasm, you're good at it. the point is you see too many people running around with guns and too many people getting shot year in year out. there simply are too many irresponsible people with guns. 

i guess i don't see the need for a handgun for "personal defense or protection" while archery hunting. i'm not saying no one should be allowed to have it, but i just think it's a waste of time and there should be issues of higher priority being dealt with. my grandfather carried a .357 mag revolver during rifle season. I support the right to bear arms, but do you not agree that a handgun is an unnecessary item to pack for archery season? you can't shoot any game with it, so it would solely be there for shooting people. all i'm saying is if you need a handgun for self-defense in the woods while archery hunting, you have bigger problems to deal with and there are more important things to be working on than carrying handguns during archery season.


part of my problem with handguns, outside of hunting, is how many athletes have them, well, just basketball and football players. you don't see golfers running around with gang bangers and drug dealers. but you constantly hear about some nba player that gets in a fight and or shot at a strip club. a 24 year old broncos cornerback was killed today by gun fire. i'm tired of athletes carrying guns and acting like gangsters. they're a joke. same thing with all these rappers.


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## SMichaels (Aug 31, 2004)

I am completely shocked by all the anti-Second Amendment sentiment on a hunting forum. :mg: It is not about "needing" a firearm during bowseason, it's about the Pennsyvlania Game Commission unlawfully denying citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania their Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for all these years. This is very good news for bowhunters.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Those people who have taken the time to legally aquire a concealed weapons permit are the ones who are going to take gun ownership, carry laws and the responsibilities that go along with them seriously. 

Its the others that I would worry about. 

While I would certainly like a week long bear season, and longer rut hunting time etc I'm not going to begrudge someone the right to bear arms in any legal fashion they see fit. It's a kooky world out there and 99.999999% of the time you will never need a carried weapon but what if that .0000001% sneaks up on you? Those people who have obtained the right to defend themselves with a legally carried firearm have weighed that possibility and are prepared for it.

If it's your bag, you have the permit and it's legal........carry away. Just remember that someone stealing a treestand,tresspassing, attempting to "steal" a deer, or otherwise ruining a perfectly good day isn't a free pass to pull a gun.
Fear of great bodily harm without the ability of retreat is a serious and rare occurance.


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## oddan (Oct 5, 2006)

I don't hunt in PA,so maybe its none of my business but you should be able to carry a pistol anywhere you want to. As far a poaching with one,if you hear a shot during bow season CALL THE LAW.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

> As far a poaching with one,if you hear a shot during bow season CALL THE LAW.


With an early muzzleloader season, junior and senior rifle season, fall turkey, pheasant and other small game plus whatever waterfowl seasons that all overlap our archery season...........that's gonna be a lot of phone calls.


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## whispershooter (Nov 12, 2005)

I think it is a good idea. We do have bobcats, yotes, and mountain lions. I ran into a bobcat while archery hunting this year. They are not afraid of humans. I would of felt safer with my .44.


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## muzzyman88 (Jan 27, 2004)

I guess Matt/PA said it the best. If you want to go for it.

Does this apply to just archery season? Only reason I ask is that I hunt spring gobbler with a bow a lot. Does this mean I can tote my pistol with me? That might open up a whole relm of possibilities.


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## Magellon (Nov 9, 2004)

For the post that was worrying about people harvesting deer with their pistols...you can rest assure that 99 % of people (including me) are much, much better shots with their bows then pistols.

I'm all for carrying and will do so next season. Will I ever need to draw my .40...probably not but it will make those long walks out of the woods at night a little less spooky.


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

Live4Rut said:


> What is there in PA that you need to carry a firearm while bowhunting.



Poachers, and that is the only reason anything like this would ever be approved. Now all you have to do is pop one with your pistol, run your arrow through the wound to get some blood on it and all of the sudden your the best bow hunter in PA and the guy everyone wants to talk to down at Roscoe's Bar & Grill.


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

oddan said:


> As far a poaching with one,if you hear a shot during bow season CALL THE LAW.



Hmmmm, so everytime someone shoots at a squirrel, pheasant, grouse or turkey we should be calling the PGC then huh? You do realize that archery coincides with turkey, small game and inline muzzle loader, not to mention the youth/senior firearm hunt, correct?


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

whispershooter said:


> I think it is a good idea. We do have bobcats, yotes, and mountain lions. I ran into a bobcat while archery hunting this year. They are not afraid of humans. I would of felt safer with my .44.



If you truly believe that there are mountain lions in PA, then you shouldn't even be allowed to carry a gun to begin with lol


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## PA Dave (Jan 3, 2005)

SMichaels said:


> I am completely shocked by all the anti-Second Amendment sentiment on a hunting forum. :mg: It is not about "needing" a firearm during bowseason, it's about the Pennsyvlania Game Commission unlawfully denying citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania their Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for all these years. This is very good news for bowhunters.


This surprises me, too. You put it very clearly. The other thing that surprises me is that so many bowhunters have such a low opinion of bowhunters in general.


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

PA Dave said:


> The other thing that surprises me is that so many bowhunters have such a low opinion of bowhunters in general.


Very good observation. If a person is going to use their pistol to take game illegally during archery season I wouldn't call them a bowhunter, or any kind of hunter for that matter.


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

PABowhunt4life said:


> you shouldn't even be allowed to carry a gun to begin with lol


 The anti-gun side of hunting? You are still deciding who can carry and who can't? 2nd amendment of the Constitution,ever hear of it?


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

trufire06 said:


> Exactly........., i agree with all of you.... wheres the week long bear hunt, this is going to make more people be trigger happy in the woods and do stupid stuff......... nuff said:thumbs_do


Why do we need a week long bear hunt? Aren't we properly harvesting enough bears?

As far as how people act, you sure have a negative opinion of your fellow hunters...hey...maybe they won't all act like you and your buddies?



jtkratzer said:


> 1. we need more attention being paid to the dwindling herd in pa more than someone carrying a pistol. who cares about your hand gun during archery season.
> 
> 2. if you need a handgun while archery hunting for protection, either you've pissed off too many people or you're just plain gun happy and probably shouldn't have the gun in the first place.


1. Have you shot any does/antlerless deer in the last 5 years? 

2. So I am gun happy because I carry? I shouldn't have a gun? You have NO CLUE...put a cork in it. I often carry a .22 just in case of a varmint, rabid or otherwise. I don't appreciate being labeled gun happy...and you really help nobody with that accusation. YOU are far more dangerous with a keyboard.



3drcher48 said:


> best thing to do w/ firearm is KILL all the *#_# coyotes that are eating the fawns. Just my .02


 Another intelligent, fact filled post. Research shows that coyotes eat a few fawns and a few maimed/killed deer...definitely not impacting the herd like you think they are. I guess you believe in the truckloads being hauled in too?  

Ever wonder why out west, where there are many more coyotes, they still have deer? Hmm...they shouldn't have any with all the coyotes they have had for years...correct?



Live4Rut said:


> I'd rather have irresponsible hunters not have it than have it and have extra deer killed with pistols during archery season....


How far is a 9mm effective? How accurate is a 9mm? Even considering that....why is it that you have such a low opinion of PA hunters? They aren't all like you and your friends...many of us are quite law abiding.



jtkratzer said:


> i recently read a report that in pa, the biggest killer of fawns is black bears.


And what percentage of the annual fawn crop are they responsible for on a statewide basis?



jtkratzer said:


> you see too many people running around with guns and too many people getting shot year in year out. there simply are too many irresponsible people with guns.


So....Brady advocate....you think hunters must be disarmed?



jtkratzer said:


> you can't shoot any game with it, so it would solely be there for shooting people.


WRONG. And comparing hunters to rappers is totally absurd.  Back away from the Brady fire!



PABowhunt4life said:


> If you truly believe that there are mountain lions in PA, then you shouldn't even be allowed to carry a gun to begin with lol


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

Top Cat said:


> The anti-gun side of hunting? You are still deciding who can carry and who can't? 2nd amendment of the Constitution,ever hear of it?



No, you're missing my point lol, this isn't an anti gun post at all, it's an anti- MORON posting :wink:

To boot, with as many scum bag poachers as we have in PA, the last thing we should do is give them another chance to poach.


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

PABowhunt4life said:


> No, you're missing my point lol, this isn't an anti gun post at all, it's an anti- MORON posting :wink:
> 
> To boot, with as many scum bag poachers as we have in PA, the last thing we should do is give them another chance to poach.


Every day they are alive is another day to poach. That is a lifestyle and personal choice, and is not dictated by laws or seasons. The local poacher here uses a .22 rifle...shall we close squirrel and groundhog hunting to eliminate the need for a .22 rifle?


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

arrowheadtroutm said:


> Every day they are alive is another day to poach. That is a lifestyle and personal choice, and is not dictated by laws or seasons. The local poacher here uses a .22 rifle...shall we close squirrel and groundhog hunting to eliminate the need for a .22 rifle?



Do me a favor, save the dramatics and the "I'm a hero" speeches for someone who appreciates it :wink:


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## silverback (Jan 20, 2005)

I've been "attacked" rutting bucks coming into grunt calls and scents, but never by a bear or coyote. Honestly, I do think a rutting buck is more of a concern in PA than a black bear, a coyote, pr even a ridge runner and that is a very small concern. If archery hunters were being mauled by bears or coyotes or killed by ridge runners, it would make the news. I don't see any stories about it in the news.

I don't see why the PGC is wasting time with this kind of legislation. What's the point? I carry enough junk into the woods, why would I want to add a pistol to the load? Why would I want to deal with it jabbing me in the side when I'm in the treestand?

They should be worrying about the revenue they are losing because nobody wants to hunt anymore. They should be worrying about spotlighting (which can lead to jacklighting) and people poaching in the early muzzleloader season. 

This is going to increase the number of illegal harvests even though it may only be a small amount. If the monster buck is out there 70 yards, some people will shoot their "protection arm" just because they have it. (Some people carry long range guns like .44 or .357 magnums as protection arms.) Of course there are people who will break the law regardless of what the rules are, but enforcement is much easier if you are not allowed to carry a sidearm at all.

I just don't see the point.


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## muzzyman88 (Jan 27, 2004)

Excuse my dumbness........but what the heck is a ridge runner?


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## Grunt-N-Gobble (Jun 30, 2006)

Many of you who are against this new and long overdue law will most likely never understand or care to see the other side as to why we as hunters should be allowed to carry a pistol.

As others have stated, it is our Constitutional Right. That alone should be enough. Those of as w/ carry permits have gone through the background checks and soforth and should be allowed to carry when ever we see fit. Just because you may not want to or choose to carry doesn't give you any right to prohit those of us that do. This right here is a classic case of divide and conquer. We are fighting each. All of the above posts show it.

Poachers will be poachers regardless of this new law. The laws as they stand now cannot prevent poaching so this new law isn't going to increase it either. Plus there is no good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to have my pistol with me in the woods or my truck if I'm out spotlighting with friends or family. Here again, a poacher doesn't care about the law, but why should I be denied my rights? I'm not poaching and just because I choose to carry a pistol doesn't make me one either.

I'm sure many of you have never had a "run-in" with another person. Some of as have, including me. I won't go into details, but I didn't have my pistol on me and I wish I would have. This happened in the woods just as it was getting dark. It happened right before hunting season started and because of what happened I was very concerned about my well-being when hunting that area after it occured. Thankfully, I haven't had another run-in with the guy since, but I'll be ready if it happens again.

I don't like our laws as the are now, in the fact that you are required to retreat if attacked. The only time you don't have to is in your own home. Florida, I believe now has a law that states you don't have to retreat if you're attacked and can stand your ground. That should be the law here in PA also. I know that statement doesn't appliy to this thread, but it is what I was told by the State Police when I told them of my incident. The law makes it so that you can't protect yourself even if you do have a carry permit, you have to run away. Then YOU become the criminal if you protect yourself. Its crazy.

The point is its our right and personal choice. Those that can carry should be allowed to carry. Thats our right given to us by the Constitution.


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## silverback (Jan 20, 2005)

Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> Many of you who are against this new and long overdue law will most likely never understand or care to see the other side as to why we as hunters should be allowed to carry a pistol.


First off, let me say I am not against it. I just don't see the necessity. I think the PGC had more important issues to deal with.



Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> As others have stated, it is our Constitutional Right. That alone should be enough.


So then we can carry guns in schools, airports, courts, etc???? NO.

You can waive constitutional rights. By entering an airport, you agree to waive your right to carry a gun. In this case, state law has said that if you choose to archery hunt you have to waive your right to bear arms while doing so. It is voluntary.

Take a look at the Second Amendment--does it say anything about personal protection? *I'm not making any argument against the Second Amendment*, I'm just giving you some food for thought.



Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> Poachers will be poachers regardless of this new law.


I agree, but enforcement is easier if you have a clear rule that you are not allowed to carry a gun while archery hunting.



Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> Plus there is no good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to have my pistol with me in the woods or my truck if I'm out spotlighting with friends or family.


What? How do you expect the game wardens to prevent jacklighting if everyone can carry a firearm while spotlighting. That's one good reason.


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## jtkratzer (Dec 22, 2006)

arrowheadtroutm said:


> Why do we need a week long bear hunt? Aren't we properly harvesting enough bears?
> 
> As far as how people act, you sure have a negative opinion of your fellow hunters...hey...maybe they won't all act like you and your buddies?
> 
> ...



easy pal, i support the right to bear arms, i do not disagree that people should be allowed to *lawfully and legally* carry a handgun. my point is, aren't there more important things to be dealing with? i am in no way comparing hunters to rappers at all. i'm saying that this is part of dislike of how easy it is for people to acquire a handgun, legally or otherwise. 

I have not shot a doe, ever, nor have i even sent in a doe app. i don't have the bear report on hand, but i'll see about getting the numbers for you.

i'm not saying you in particular, but it's people with your quickness to be so defensive, confrontational, and utterly rude without understanding the point of my post, and probably without reading the other previous posts, and you so quick jump all over someone. these are the types of attitudes and actions of people who pull a gun over something trivial. 

i'm not worried about poachers, they're going to do their thing no matter what the law is, same thing with drug dealers, and every other type of crime. if the law worked, our jail systems wouldn't be full to the brim across the county.

i'm not worried about the few crazies who pull guns to early, because the majority of the ones who acquire their gun legally don't intend to use it. but the when you have a gun with you, it's obviously much more likely it will be used.

again, the whole point is, i strongly believe there are more important things to be correcting in the world of hunting and game management than when you can carry a handgun. it's not that it isn't important, because it's part of the constitution, yes, but i feel the quality of hunting and game available is more important. it was multiple times better for my parents and grandparents to hunt than it is now, and i wonder if hunting in pa will even be worthwhile when i have kids old enough to hunt. hunters, young ones, are becoming few and far between. in minnesota, the first two days of deer season (rifle, shotgun), the schools closed because of lack of attendence. here in pa, the teachers give you a hard time if you want to take a week off to go spend time with your dad/uncles/grandfather to go to a cabin and hunt. i just feel there are other, more pressing issues to be concerned with than a handgun. handguns aren't going to fix the deer and game problems we have. 

can you get off my back now?


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## redrockhunter (Aug 11, 2005)

this thread really shows the brillance of PA hunters now doesn't it.


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## jtkratzer (Dec 22, 2006)

redrockhunter said:


> this thread really shows the brillance of PA hunters now doesn't it.


it certainly shows how quick people can get defensive and make personal attacks towards fellow hunters because they have differing view points and opinions.

it's really quite sad, we're in this together as hunters, a dwindling population of outdoors sportsmen, yet we attack one another for having different beliefs.


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## Grunt-N-Gobble (Jun 30, 2006)

Silverback - I agree the PGC has other issues to deal with, but I don't think this was a new law change to the game laws ( I could be wrong ) was done by our state law makers. There are many laws that aren't necessary, but we have them anyways. Just because you don't think its necessary, doesn't mean that it isn't. 

Carrying guns in schools, airports, courts is a separate issue and one that we aren't decussing here. Now the lawmakes have said we can carry while bowhunting. Thats fine with me. If you don't like it, then you should take action with your representitive.

What do you think having the right to bear arms means? I believe it includes personal protection. Maybe you don't. And if you don't then yes, I believe you are making an argument against the Second Amendment.

Poaching will happen regardless. You are willing to sacrifice the rights of your fellow hunters just to save the few deer that MAY get poached by this new law? You would rather save the deer than have a man save is life if he is attacked? Now there is some food for though.

You really want to prevent jacklighting? Then oulaw spotlighting. Think about it.......... If you were going to kill a deer at night, what type of gun would you use? Would you use a pistol that isn't accurate in the hands of most people or a rifle, even a .22cal with a scope that anyone can aim and hit what they are aiming at? Lets be reallilistic here. What poacher is going to use a 9mm, .40cal or .45 to poach a deer? Even a .357 or .44 while better, isn't going to be the first choice to the guy that is going to poach. While most game laws are important, I see no reason to prevent those people with carry permits from keeping them in their car/truck while spotlighting. Why outlaw the rights of so many because of the criminal actions of the few?


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

PABowhunt4life said:


> Do me a favor, save the dramatics and the "I'm a hero" speeches for someone who appreciates it :wink:


You totally dodged the question...and tried to twist things around. How about answering the question?


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

Indiana just passed the same thing.

Good...

I think it is ridiculous that a state game regulation trumps my second amendment right to bear arms.

I would be more leary of 2 legged varmints than 4 legged varmints in the woods.

I don't know about PA, but in Indiana we have an overabundance of meth heads and pot heads doing their stuff in the back woods.


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## jtkratzer (Dec 22, 2006)

Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> ...
> 
> Carrying guns in schools, airports, courts is a separate issue and one that we aren't decussing here. Now the lawmakes have said we can carry while bowhunting. Thats fine with me. If you don't like it, then you should take action with your representitive.


I think the point being made is to show that there are instances of where giving up your rights is different from them being taken away. Giving up your right to carry in court is the same as giving up your right to carry during archery season. The concept is the same. For crying out loud, you have to give up your cell phone in court. 




Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> What do you think having the right to bear arms means? I believe it includes personal protection. Maybe you don't. And if you don't then yes, I believe you are making an argument against the Second Amendment.


Saying you believe it includes personal protection where someone else doesn't is another opinion. It doesn't make you or someone with a different interpretation wrong. What's right and wrong is what's written. The interpretations and opinions are where the unclear areas are. These are the same types of areas where you see religious conflicts - opinions, interpretations, and beliefs.




Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> Poaching will happen regardless. You are willing to sacrifice the rights of your fellow hunters just to save the few deer that MAY get poached by this new law? You would rather save the deer than have a man save is life if he is attacked? Now there is some food for though.


I really would like someone to get me nationwide or state-by-state numbers of how many people are injured or killed in the woods while archery hunting. Then, based on those numbers, how many of them could/would have been prevented or stopped by a handgun. How many of these incidences are cause by a person(s) attacking another person and how many are animals attacking people?

If someone can come up with a significant number of injuries and deaths of archery hunters in the woods, I'll agree that this was and should be priority. If the numbers come back and 2 people got hurt in the woods where a handgun would have prevented it, i'll continue to stand my ground that there are more important issues to deal with. I'm am in no way saying that a person's life is not important, or less important than an animal, but seriously, how many people on this board have been in a situation during archery season where they needed a handgun?



Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> You really want to prevent jacklighting? Then oulaw spotlighting. Think about it.......... If you were going to kill a deer at night, what type of gun would you use? Would you use a pistol that isn't accurate in the hands of most people or a rifle, even a .22cal with a scope that anyone can aim and hit what they are aiming at? Lets be reallilistic here. What poacher is going to use a 9mm, .40cal or .45 to poach a deer? Even a .357 or .44 while better, isn't going to be the first choice to the guy that is going to poach. While most game laws are important, I see no reason to prevent those people with carry permits from keeping them in their car/truck while spotlighting. Why outlaw the rights of so many because of the criminal actions of the few?


I agree that the criminal actions of a few should not hinder those of the law abiding, however, those few are the reason the laws stand as they do. it's the few crazy people that caused people to not go past luggage check in the airport, the strip searches, the random luggage searches, the metal detectors. it's the high number of people who commit crimes that limit our options as to what firearms we're allowed to have.

criminals are not logical, if they were, they wouldn't be criminals. poachers are going to use whatever means necessary to accomplish their goals. using a .357 or .45 ACP at close range will put a deer down. we all know there are areas where the deer feel less threatened and are not as leery of people. it would not surprise me at all to know that there are people who will drive through these areas with a pistol and spotlight and shoot from the vehicle.

asking someone why they would use a relatively inaccurate firearm in the hands of most to poach deer is as good of a question as asking people why they rob banks when hardly any of them are successful and those that do get away, do so usually with less than 10,000 dollars anyway? there's no logic to crime or criminals, they don't follow reason.


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## PA Dave (Jan 3, 2005)

Just to correct an obvious misunderstanding on this thread, the PCG had _nothing _to do with the decision and didn't waste precious time and money on it. This was the state legislature and the Governor who passed a law concerning a citizen's right to legally bear arms, even while hunting.

I'm not sure how a person could have missed that if they took the time to read the link which isn't very long or wordy at all. I hope no one sent them angry emails without knowing what they were talking about.

Personally, I never realized that criminals (that is, poachers) were waiting anxiously for the chance to break the law legally... Do you really think that those who would poach have held back for this reason?

Footnote: I requested that this thread be moved to the Legislation and Hunting Rights section, as this quickly departed from the spirit of the Bowhunting section. Thanks to the Moderators for honoring this request.


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## silverback (Jan 20, 2005)

jtkratzer said:


> I think the point being made is to show that there are instances of where giving up your rights is different from them being taken away. Giving up your right to carry in court is the same as giving up your right to carry during archery season. The concept is the same. For crying out loud, you have to give up your cell phone in court.


You are correct. Thanks.

If you want to protect the right to bear arms, you have to begin by looking at the exact language of the constitution, which is what I did.

Here is what the Second Amendment says: "_A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,_ the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. " It says the purpose of the right to bear arms it to protect our country.

I am NOT making an argument against the Second Amendment. Don't turn it around and say that I am against gun ownership rights. I am just reading what the Second Amendment says. WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE THAT THE NRA HAS DONE WHAT IT HAS TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS.



Grunt-N-Gobble said:


> You really want to prevent jacklighting? Then oulaw spotlighting.


I agree 100% with that. I would love it if the PGC outlawed spotlighting.


Why does everyone think the only protection weapons are 9 mms and 40s? People also use 357s and 44s, which are accurate over 100 yards.


And just to be clear, AGAIN, I have no problem with this new law. I just think there are more important things to deal with. 

PA Dave, you say the PGC had nothing to do with it. I don't see how you can make that statement. All of the Game laws are in title 34. Just because this law is also in title 34, doesn't mean the PGC didn't have anything to do with it.


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## Grunt-N-Gobble (Jun 30, 2006)

Listen guys, I'm not here to argue over how each of us interprets the Constitution or what gun a poacher uses. My point is this: That our lawmakers and Govenor saw fit to correct a wrong that was estiblished by the PGC with those of us that are legally allowed to carry firearms. They, like myself, feel that permit holders should be allowed to carry a gun for personal protection while bowhunting and while spotlighting. 

Silverback - I'm not trying to twist around that you are against gun ownership, but atleast to me, you are against those of us that are permitted to carry from doing so. I maybe going out on a limb here, but doesn't the NRA, which I'm a member, believe we have a right to protect ourselves, which includes the use of guns? We already have too many people trying to interpret the Constitution in a way that was never intended. That is why the NRA fights for our gun rights every day. And remember, we are talking about hunting here, not carrying a gun at a school, airport or courthouse. And if you aren't against this new law, then what are you here to agrue about?

If you agree with this or not its your opinion and as such are entitled to it. I just want to be able to exercise my right to carry if I want to or not. 

I've already spent too much time on this thread. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


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## pakrazee (Oct 5, 2005)

Wow, it seems that this turned into another "one of those" posts about bowhunters worrying about guns. 

Who was gonna stop you in the first place? Any place thats off limits is bad for those of us that have a CCW, so any victory is a good one! If you dont wanna carry in the woods, DONT, and if you do then DO - everyone wins!:darkbeer:


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## bluemagic66 (Nov 28, 2006)

PABowhunt4life said:


> If you truly believe that there are mountain lions in PA, then you shouldn't even be allowed to carry a gun to begin with lol


if you call the pcm they will deny the fact we have mountian lions here in pa just like they did with the yotes a few years back when they traded our turkeys for yotes and now they are every darn place 

but as for the ML's in secluded spots on state game lands in the licking creek area there are warnings to be aware of these animals and no over night camping also in these areas 

i personally have not seen these sign but my brother in law has


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## trophyhuntin69 (Jan 9, 2007)

*Mountain Lions*

 WE have the same problem in Illinois the DNR denies any mountain lions being in Illinois. I have seen two while turkey hunting in the last two years, both were within 60 yards so i am darn sure it was a ML.


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## Dredly (May 10, 2005)

I'm all for it.

Just curious but if you have a CCW to carry... then why wouldn't you be able to carry when your outside 50 yards from your house with a bow? Makes no sense to me.

also - there was a report of a guy being held up for his deer this year, theft is common, as is harassment bordering on violence. Not being able to carry was just pointless. what happens if your a private land owner during archery season and somone is on your land and you approach them?

Hunter or not you should always have the right to protect yourself.


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## b0w_sniper (Oct 11, 2004)

Here's the link:http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=2503


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

IF people were as aware of how many dopers are-because of the forfeiture laws and severe federal penalties-planting their weed in state and federal forests and then guarding those areas, they might be a bit wiser as to why bowhunters ought to be able to carry if they are licensed


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

*no need for it*

There is absolutly no need to carry a pistol when you are bow hunting and as far as the weed patchs are concerned a simple phone call to your local or state police will do the trick the only people I see needing this kind of law would be poachers and guys who think there hunters but really are not. thats my 2 bits later clyde


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## PA Dave (Jan 3, 2005)

I hear ya, woodsman78, but I can assure you that some poachers you refer to already _do_ carry...and yes, a simple phone call will do the trick in most cases when you stumble into the weed patch, but what about that one exception? You don't always have the luxury of sneaking away quietly, and these people are extremely dangerous.

The whole point is that while the PCG has the authority and responsibility to define how various weapons may be used _for hunting_, that authority does not override the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

PA Dave said:


> The whole point is that while the PCG has the authority and responsibility to define how various weapons may be used _for hunting_, that authority does not override the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.


Very well said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## paarchhntr (Dec 21, 2005)

Yeah I guess its are right to carry. 
BUT for the love of god you guys that want to carry because of varmits, bears, and deer what are you afraid of your own shadow??? I almost spit out my coffee when someone said they were afraid of a bobcat, or even a silly coyote? come on guys reach down and see if ya got a set. grown man afraid of a 15-25 lb kitty cat or 30-50 dog, hang it up and just shoot foam deer in the backyard and save yourself the stress. Man poor Fred Beer is probally rolling in his grave right now reading this of his fellow bowhunters, he never cared about having a firearm even when stalking polar beers, grizzlys, and whatever else he wanted to kill.:wink:


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## PA Dave (Jan 3, 2005)

Ever see a rabid raccoon? Tends to send manly bravado out the window, and for good reason.


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

paarchhntr said:


> . Man poor Fred Beer is probally rolling in his grave right now reading this of his fellow bowhunters, he never cared about having a firearm even when stalking polar beers, grizzlys, and whatever else he wanted to kill.:wink:


I beg to differ! I watched a movie of Fred hunting polar bear and he had a man backing him up with a rifle. 

It is my Right as a law abiding American citizen to carry a firearm whether you want to call me a scardycat is up to you.


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## paarchhntr (Dec 21, 2005)

You speak of *****. I killed over 550 ***** in the last 2 years not one of them I felt threatened my life!! I did have a wounded x large **** fall into my canoe after being shot out of an overhanging branch in the dark in a deep river in the month of Jan when I was about fourteen snarling and snapping at us my dad quickly grabbed the back of its neck and before that **** new what happened to it his face was being beatin into the side of the canoe till it was dead. I asked him why he didnt just throwit into the water and his answer was "thats a eight dollar ****, your lunch money for a week"
Rabies.... theres a shot for that!:wink:


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## paarchhntr (Dec 21, 2005)

Yeah that man had a rifle but Fred Bear had a stick bow and was probally 10 yards from the bear!! You think that bear wouldnt have gotten to him because of that rifle? Your talking about a POLAR bear not winnie the pooh!:wink: It may have taken five shots to stop that bear.
I am not arguing the constitutional ammendment with anyone! I too have a concealed carry permit for certain situations and believe that it is our right to carry. 
But I just think its funny that people are that scared of the boogy woogy man!!
Man now I better watch when I jump out and scare my buddy at night on the way out of the woods cause hes scared of his own shadow.


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## mpetrozza67 (Jan 9, 2005)

*Dumb*

This almost makes me embarrased to say I am from PA.This is why the anti's are winning. they dont fight and argue amongst themselves. The issue shouldnt be guns against bows it should be hunters against Anti's. and just so you all know I do not hunt with a gun and dont even own one. but if I had a license to carry then I should be able to carry during archery season. and if any of you think that poachers were abiding this law up until this point then you really need to get out more. THEY ARE POACHERS NOT HUNTERS THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE


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## redracer_6 (Feb 19, 2007)

to take someones right to spotlight deer and enjoy nature is wrong.....if someone wants to carry a gun fine let them. if they want to hunt in a three piece suit that is a persons right. live and let live but punish those who abuse those rights.i personally don't get nervous walking into the woods even though i have seen coyotes, bobcats, bears, and yes a mountain lion but with my bow i feel safe. i just don't beleive in taking things away from the people who have done nothing wrong. there are too many laws already that restrict peoples way of life..


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## x-shocker (Jan 25, 2007)

redracer_6 said:


> to take someones right to spotlight deer and enjoy nature is wrong.....if someone wants to carry a gun fine let them. if they want to hunt in a three piece suit that is a persons right. live and let live but punish those who abuse those rights.i personally don't get nervous walking into the woods even though i have seen coyotes, bobcats, bears, and yes a mountain lion but with my bow i feel safe. i just don't beleive in taking things away from the people who have done nothing wrong. there are too many laws already that restrict peoples way of life..



Well written.

We, hunters, should all stand together. Some of us may not see the value of a personal protection handgun, but others do. It is there for their peace of mind while they are doing something they love, hunting. We will never know when an unseen accident will force the hunter to become the hunted: example, a mis-step leading to a fall resulting in a broken leg. A bow at this point is pretty much useless if you have to fend off coyotes or black bears.

Just because an archery hunter carries a handgun does not make him a poacher. If he is set on poaching, the bow and arrow is a way more effective and quiet route than a 9mm bullet fired from a handgun.


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## Smokey84 (Sep 1, 2006)

At least we now have a CHOICE to carry or not. Whether you decide to or not it's your choice.

Since WV passed their law a few years ago I have always taken my piston with me and I'm glad PA passed the same law.


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## Basilej (Dec 21, 2005)

If my women or daughter was a bowhunter, I would want them to pack some heat. I know this amy sound sexes, but it is just MHO>

Joe


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## Pabigwoods (Feb 25, 2005)

Fighting and bickering like a bunch of 10 year old school girls, I'm not suprised one bit if its not this thread its the AR threads or the coyote threads and so on. If you guys put half your energy into something constructive instead of fighting with one another we as a group of hunters in this state would be much better off. When i see threads like this I dont even wanna admit that I'm a hunter in PA


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## doegirl (Sep 22, 2004)

Basile By The T said:


> If my women or daughter was a bowhunter, I would want them to pack some heat. I know this amy sound sexes, but it is just MHO>
> 
> Joe


Not sexist at all Joe, just reality. I trully do hope the state of Ohio this next season will allow me conceal carry. My right to defend myself should trump any worrys about poaching. This arguement that allowing bowhunters to carry handguns will lead to increased poaching is assuming that law abiding bowhunters can't be trusted. Plain and simple.


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