# New Radical FET Legislation



## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

I think that you should be more forthcoming with the whole truth. The fact that this tax already applied to arrows built in the USA...but not those manufactured overseas. The fact that your company(and others) used this loophole to gain a competitive advantage over companys that produced arrows in the USA. The fact that this now levels the playing field for all companies selling arrows, and doesnt encourage comapnies to move their arrow manufacturing(ie...Jobs) overseas. It is bad enough having to compete with overseas labour at 14 cents an hour without the Government imposing unfair tax laws that encouraged it. 
Great work ATA. It is about time.


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## ELCHEFFO (Oct 15, 2002)

*Great news: I think!*

We are all very sick and tired of OUR JOBS going overseas. We American
workers are the hardest working, best producing and most competant workers
in the world. It's time the Corporations relized this.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

I think Carbon Express needs to get their facts straight. This tax has been in place for all US arrow manufacturers and the manufacturers of most sporting equipment in the US for a long time. In fact, the tax was initiated by sportsmen to help fund conservation efforts around the country. 

Carbon Express, via their sales, benefit directly from the outdoor heritage in the US. Quite frankly, if you don't want to do your part to support that heritage than you are not welcome to do business in the United States.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

*No profile data whatsoever!*

I noticed that you do not have the backbone to put ANYTHING in your profile. Therefore I can only conclude that you are some hack closely associated with Carbon Express or maybe even the major stockholder.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

*CE can avoid the import tax*

Just start making them in Ohio or something.  Then I'll buy some.


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## Hollowpoint (Jul 10, 2003)

I dont feel bad for you at all.  

GOLD TIP...made in the USA!!!!


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## pronghorn (Jul 16, 2003)

I have often wondered how the price of Carbon Express and PSE arrows were higher than Gold Tip's. While this is not always true it generally is in our area. You would think that importing arrows from overseas and using lower labor costs to produce the arrows would result in a lower retail price. 

I have always had more confidence in Gold Tips Quality Control especially since touring their factory in Utah. Arrows are not something that you want to take chances with. Seeing the MULTIPLE steps of Q.C that are in place there gives you alot of confidence. 


It looks like this will be another banner year for Gold Tip.


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## Twang! (Apr 20, 2002)

I agree with Mr. FS560. We ain't buying your failed attempt to disguise your identity. You've screwed America's Sportsman for too long!

CARBON EXPRESS (Parker, PSE, BLACKHAWK also guilty of this) abused the system to their competitive advantage and now expects us to feel sorry for them.

I will NEVER shoot another CARBON EXPRESS product again- EVER! 
Take your Korean junk and stuff it!

BUY EASTON
BUY GOLD TIP
BUY CARBON Tech

MADE IN USA!


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

Actually…..

The Koreans make a very good quality carbon arrow. I do believe for a period of time they were ahead of the game as far as manufacturing teniques and tolerances. It would seem these days for the most part everybody is capable of making quality arrows..

As many have seen me preach/demonstrate many times consumer isolation and the belief that strictly buying USA goods is good for the USA is a foolish notion at best. Bigger picture at work and one does really need to look at the whole picture…You can believe what you want but it is a proven fact. Plus most that preach such idealism anyways are either unaware of how much imported goods they really do consume or don’t care to practice what they preach 

However it is good that the Government has closed the loophole that existed. Kind of strange that domestically sold sporting goods went to fund programs and recourses that non domestic producers depended on to sell there goods as well . May I ask why it is so radical to insist that foriegn produced arrows are now subject to the same taxes that domestic arrows are?? That this tax be used to help fund opportunities for the very sportsmen that you depend to purchase your product?? Never mind I'm sure an answer will not be forthcoming  


One loophole down and how many more for the Government to work on??


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## rescue15 (Apr 11, 2003)

I have boly been in the archery game for 5 years but Gold tip has always had the best stats in those 5 years. The new tax doesn't hurt me...I shoot GT and always will.

Steve


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## Brown Dog (Oct 18, 2003)

*Kurean Arrows*

I will have to agree with FS560 on your identity, you must be a hack associated with the company or one doing a "Bill Clinton" decision pole. Personally I detest foreign made products of all kinds. I really don't care what the economists or the feel good subscribers think about trading with the stinking World markets. We have plenty of cut and run corporations who have pretty much sold out our country with the international moves they have made. We as grass roots sportsmen can cast our vote for world trade with our rejection of foreign products. I assure you that if foreign goods stack up on the shelf and are rejected by us, the target market. The manufacturer will not be successful.
Buy American, support your local Pro-Shop. Let the Koreans sell to the Japs.


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## concept (Aug 27, 2003)

*over seas*



centerx said:


> Actually…..
> 
> The Koreans make a very good quality carbon arrow. I do believe for a period of time they were ahead of the game as far as manufacturing teniques and tolerances. It would seem these days for the most part everybody is capable of making quality arrows..
> 
> ...


center x,i didn't get this much support for american , when i posted about China.


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

koreans and japanese don't like eachother, just fyi.


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## bubba_37 (Dec 19, 2003)

You All Are Very Right About Carbon Express And Pse. But The Blackhawk Arrows Are Made In The Us With The Exception Of Thier Carbon/aluminum Arrows Which Are Imported.


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

start making them in the US and I will start shooting them again........


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## Donhudd (Sep 21, 2002)

It is about time that the playing field was leveled. The importers have enough price advantage without avoiding the taxes American firms have to pay.


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## plottman (Nov 15, 2003)

Just curious what Parker had done to take advantage of the system?


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2004)

I guess I need to ask why I should care were they are made. I gain no benifite of this sportsman programe, and for the most part they all run about the same price and quality.

I don't recall seeing GT,or Easton,or Carbontec doubling their contingicy money, so who's supporting who here


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

I say bring back the autopact while were at it.


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

Sean,
Arrows purchased in Canada are excempt from the FET,...so you have no worries either way. 
Doubling contingency money...would be nice...but this law doesnt put any more money into the hands of AMerican Manufacturers. It simply forces companies who ship their jobs overseas to pay the same taxes as those who produce their product in the USA.


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## StevenB (Jun 2, 2002)

Xs24-7 said:


> I think that you should be more forthcoming with the whole truth. The fact that this tax already applied to arrows built in the USA...but not those manufactured overseas. The fact that your company(and others) used this loophole to gain a competitive advantage over companys that produced arrows in the USA. The fact that this now levels the playing field for all companies selling arrows, and doesnt encourage comapnies to move their arrow manufacturing(ie...Jobs) overseas. It is bad enough having to compete with overseas labour at 14 cents an hour without the Government imposing unfair tax laws that encouraged it.
> Great work ATA. It is about time.



hahahahahaha you think that a tax will stop them, the cheaper labour is still there, they just won't get as good a deal on their tax.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2004)

Xs24-7 said:


> Sean,
> Arrows purchased in Canada are excempt from the FET,...so you have no worries either way.
> Doubling contingency money...would be nice...but this law doesnt put any more money into the hands of AMerican Manufacturers. It simply forces companies who ship their jobs overseas to pay the same taxes as those who produce their product in the USA.



Ed I guess my point is that with all the bantering from the Americans over were it's made and the big bad arrow companies are hurting them, from my perspective I don't see the home grown arrow companies supporting the archers like the "offshore" ones do.

I guess when I do see CX doubling their contigancy money and the other are not, it's hard pressed to me to see how they are so hard done by when they actually support the archers more than the home grown ones do. And if they read how thier sportsman funding is spent I think they will think twice


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## I BOW 2 (May 22, 2002)

Sean if you compare the two companies dollar for dollar the Gold Tip plan pays more, pays at more events and has less hoops to jump thru to get paid. Now if Easton would do this kind of program then I would never have to consider something else  Ken


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

I am glad the loophole has been closed & the playing field is even. If you want to make a low cost arrow that is great, BUT why should you be exempted from having to pay the same tax other arrow companies have had to pay? 

We all know in the end CX will raise the price of their arrows to cover the costs of the tax. Now it is up to the consummer to decide if these shafts are worth the addtional price. I think CX has made a very good arrow & I have used them with great success but if they go up in price I don't think they are worth it based upon some of the other high quality shafts on the market that are lower in price. 

Everyside has a position regarding something like this but we all know in truth there are low cost arrows and the archery in the school programs will not be hurt by this.


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

Concept….

It’s not a matter of support it’s a matter of facts… The point is if your going to buy US exclusively you need to do you research on if that is the best way to support the US economy as a whole.. Sometimes it is other time’s it is not. Bottom line is to be an informed consumer..

For example .. There is a particular rifle I have been debating about purchasing and the Italians are well known for producing it a little cheaper. My research shows that you may get a fine one or perhaps one with problems. Everybody argues iF it is as good as the American produced counterparts. I say why worry about it and buy American in this case….

If it was a T shirt and a disposable good I really wouldn’t care who made it. 

If it was a bow and the risers were machined in China but the company sold way more ( slightly lower price and accuracy still there) I may take great pride in knowing I am keeping US limb manufacturers and the people machining the cams working overtime. Might just be helping to employ MORE people then a strictly US manufacturer..

If it was A Mono or 99% let off bow I was looking for I would look you up.I would not care were it was made as no otheres exist and if they did and all things were equal I would Buy US . If the price was higher but the quality or features were better I would buy US. However what a lot of US manufacturers are doing is skimping on quality in order to compete with foreign labor cost. So all things are not equal and the cost is the same in many cases. 

If it was a car and all else was equal I say Support the USA. If not and it rolled off the Toyota plant here in the US you still kept some employed. Should you feel bad?? Should you forgo what you want in a car?? Should you not make your dollar stretch as far as possible for the benefit of the family… It’s up to the individual to decide NOT to be preached to by people who are not knowledgeable or those that fail to follow there own advice either though ignorance or hypocrisy 

The facts on the carbon express arrow is that they are a fine product. That the Koreans were a kind of innovator in the manufacturing of this product to a consistent tolerance on a regular basis. More consistent, less waste, cheaper labor… Can’t really blame a company for that OR consumers who may want it. However you are now to a point were “all things are Equal” in the carbon arrow world so I say support the US. I still like Easton products. Gold Tips look nice also. The problem I have is when the playing field in NOT level and can be made better. This tax is a fine example. However you can’t control millions living in poverty and bountiful cheap labor. All you can do is make a better product and market correctly so people will find the value in that product. Something you can do with a riffle something you can’t do with a t-shirt.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

There is nothing wrong with buying products manufacturered in South Korea, after all, South Korea is a close ally of the the US.

This legislation puts all arrow manufacturers on an equal footing with regard to the FET and that is as it should be.

I am offended that a representative or principal of Carbon Express would come on here with that "poor me" attitude and expect sympathy.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2004)

I BOW 2 said:


> Sean if you compare the two companies dollar for dollar the Gold Tip plan pays more, pays at more events and has less hoops to jump thru to get paid. Now if Easton would do this kind of program then I would never have to consider something else  Ken



I am not sure I am getting this, according to their web site they (GT) do not even have any contingancy awards at all and CX has $60,000US in awards, how are they dollar for dollar better???


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## I BOW 2 (May 22, 2002)

Sean, here ya go bud!  Ken
http://www.goldtip.com/company/news/04_11_24.htm


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Isn't it a little dirty to get people to build arrows in other country's for peanuts, while you turn around and sell them in your country and undercut the companies that keep Americans employed? Thats the issue. Well, I'll probably hear "Where was your TV made?" "Where were the wire harnesses in your truck made?" Oh well, my buying that truck (Ford Ranger) kept Americans employed and Canadian Engine parts producers employed. I used to buy Carbon Express arrows and that kept people in another country employed who work in a questionable work enviornment for very little money. Its time that we all read the labels on what we buy and see who's economy were supporting. Domestic families earning a living wage OR Sweatshop workers earning peanuts in a Communist country.


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## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

*cath8rDude ..............*

Carbon Xpress is "under-cutting" the competition .........  

Seeing we both live in the same country ........... what shops are you buying at .....  

CX's are at least 20-30% more than GoldTip's in Ontario .....

I understand the need to "Buy American" .......... but  

Whether it's cars, clothes, or bows ............. it's your choice ....... 

Your Ford Ranger .............. yes it's "American Made" .....
if you include Mexico ................


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Buying Ford helps keep thousands of North Americans in jobs that provide a living wage. Can the same be said for Carbon Express? How many North Americans do they keep in jobs with labour laws and regulated working conditions? I don't buy them anymore for this reason and that they have a tendency to shatter. They must keep the good arrows in Korea or China or wherever they are made. I disagree with CX's being 20-30% more than GT's. They are just about even in price.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2004)

I BOW 2 said:


> Sean, here ya go bud!  Ken
> http://www.goldtip.com/company/news/04_11_24.htm


Thanks Ken, you would think this would be on the front page.

GT- $88,000
CX- $60,000
CF- $22,000
CT-?
Easton-?


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## Jose Boudreaux (Oct 18, 2003)

I was not aware there were other arrows in the world besides gold tip..


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

Contingency money only means something for the very smallest percentage of people who purchase arrows every year.  

As far as the Chinese working in sub standard conditions some are in industries such as textiles and others are not in such industries as electronics. Of course they pay could be better, The Chinese people could do what the American worker has done. Organize create unions and demand more money, benefits and working conditions. This is what the US worker has done. I don’t feel sorry for them a bit if they chose not to..

But then the sword is double edged …

Should the Chinese work force do that they would not be as competitive in the world wide economy and manufacturing jobs would simply start to switch to yet another cheaper labor force . Then certain segments of that economy would be in the exact same position that certain sectors are in the US.. Plus with millions of people wanting to be employed to what is quite a nice job by that counties standards ( although pitiful by our guidelines) I doubt you would see Chinese workers organizing and walking off job sights anytime soon. You only have to read the economic reports to see that Chinese disposable income is at an all time high and gaining the interest of other countries who wish to sell there goods in that country. 

Here is some more facts…

Recent article in Forbes states that for years American companies have wanted to get in the Chinese Market (1.3 billion potential consumers) only to discover they could not afford there goods and services. The threshold was a household income of at least $10,000.00 ( in US dollars.) Today 40 million households can easily make that threshold in China. American Software maker Sybase reports it’s revenue from Chinese sales alone has doubled to 40 million in 3 years because of the consumption of products by the Chinese that useses their software 

Rockwell International, a company who Manufactures “stuff” for manufacturing lines based right here in the US. Has 60 distributors in China alone and recently got done with a 2-week marathon for 147 more potential Chinese clients. They also report an increase in revenue due to sales to Mercedes because of its US plant doing well. The company reports 300 million in net income based of 1.3 billion in sales. Stockholder shares went from 13 to 36 dollars a share. They are admittedly not the biggest US supplier for these goods and services to boot …

Bet these US companies ( and many more) would hate to see production in China decline


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

Brown Dog said:


> I will have to agree with FS560 on your identity, you must be a hack associated with the company or one doing a "Bill Clinton" decision pole. Personally I detest foreign made products of all kinds. I really don't care what the economists or the feel good subscribers think about trading with the stinking World markets. We have plenty of cut and run corporations who have pretty much sold out our country with the international moves they have made. We as grass roots sportsmen can cast our vote for world trade with our rejection of foreign products. I assure you that if foreign goods stack up on the shelf and are rejected by us, the target market. The manufacturer will not be successful.
> Buy American, support your local Pro-Shop. Let the Koreans sell to the Japs.


You trade with Canadians as well. Canadian Oil is a major portion of that trade I would gather. Think about it. 

Dylan


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

centerx said:


> As far as the Chinese working in sub standard conditions some are in industries such as textiles and others are not in such industries as electronics. Of course they pay could be better, The Chinese people could do what the American worker has done. Organize create unions and demand more money, benefits and working conditions. This is what the US worker has done. I don’t feel sorry for them a bit if they chose not to..


I gather you've seen what happened to the University students when they rally'd against the communist government? It was a massacre. 

I do feel sorry for them. I wish their government was more socialist democratic or even just democratic.

Dylan


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

I don’t know If the student protest of many years ago against the government would be meet with the same resolution as a organized work force trying to form a union. Especially if it was part of the “skilled” work force.

Bottom line is they are enjoying a prosperity that is not been realized in China in it’s history. At least arguably since the Ming dynasty time periods and is better off then many other countries in the world. It does not seem to be an overwhelming problem for a Chinese citizen to leave if they don’t like there homeland but yet there are 1.3 billion of them. Overall I really don’t feel sorry for them.

I am unsure what their government is anymore. It’s still considered communist but it sure does have a lot of socialist qualities to it. In the old iron curtain Soviet Union you would sure not have the influx of foreign influences, foreign companies and the “free” enterprise system then you find in China now


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## BOWDORK (Jul 26, 2004)

Keep in mind all, that if there were not competition out there for shafts, then Easton would still (for the most part) have a monopoly on the arrow/shaft industry, and that would be no good. I am glad there is competition out there, and you just cannot avoid product from coming overseas. Where was your steel treestand made? How about all your scent lock/scent blocker clothing? Check the tags. You are most likely speaking out of both sides of your mouth. So go out wearing your clothing made in Indonesia, hunting in your stand made in China, but your MADE IN USA shafts.


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

The issue is not made in U.S. or not. It's the issue of selling arrows in this country and not paying the same taxes on them that the U.S. producers have to. I could care less where a product comes from, I just want to make sure that U.S. producers are not on unequal footing when it comes to taxation of a product.


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## Bnbfishin (Apr 25, 2004)

I don't know if this was stated earlier in the thread but.... isn't Gold Tip manufactured by Browning? Then Browning being owned by PSE.... or sister company yadda yadda yadda.... hmmm do you still buy Gold Tip even though PSE benefits from the sale? Or am I just wrong about who manufatures Gold Tip arrows? Bill


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i have a reply, but it would be wiped in two shakes of a lambs tail....

goldtip is goldtip. they are an independant company making some of the best quality carbon shafts around. the arrows are made here and the money stays here. x-cutter would be the man to erase all doubts and mis-information.


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## fire flight L.C (Feb 13, 2004)

*no*

Gold Tip is not manucatored for browning, by browning or PSE

The name says it all,,, Gold tip is made by Gold tip.


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

i'm not so sure this new legislation is "Radical"......


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