# Let's blow the doors off



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Let's blow the doors off the Greencastle sportsman's club for the cancer shoot.
Greencastle has one of the nicest field courses I have seen, the only problem is they never hold any field shoots. They have at least 5 3d shoots every month, but only open the field course up once a year for the cancer shoot on memorial day week end.
So here is what I was thinking. If they get an overwhelming turn out to shoot the field course at this year's cancer shoot maybe, just maybe they will see that it might be worth while to hold more than 1 shoot a year on their field range. Right now they really have no reason to open it at any other time. They get 30 or 40 guys that show up at all the 3d shoots they have. But if they see that there are just as many people interested in shooting the field course they might just take the hint.
So who's in?


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

So...the Field course is open for The Cancer Shoot this year? Last year, it wasn't. :angry:

I agree with ya Dave, it is one of the nicest places I have shot.


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## RedWonder (Jan 10, 2003)

I am going for the weekend and the Monday 900 Round as long as weather permits


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

mdbowhunter said:


> So...the Field course is open for The Cancer Shoot this year? Last year, it wasn't. :angry:
> 
> I agree with ya Dave, it is one of the nicest places I have shot.


From what I am being told it will be open. 
That's kind of why I am trying to rally the troops, and flood them with field shooters this year. We need to give them a reason to open the field course more often. 
I can see their point right now, there is no sense in opening it if it isn't going to draw enough shooters to make it worth while. But if we show up in numbers they will see that there are still some field shooters around. It might even resurrect what field scene used to be there.


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## RedWonder (Jan 10, 2003)

Here is the link to the schedule:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1193896


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

RedWonder said:


> Here is the link to the schedule:
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1193896


Well there it is field round confirmed. Now let's blow their doors off, and give them a reason to hold more than 1 f/h round there every couple of years.

No excuses if your with in 2-1/2 hours I expect to see you there.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

BOWGOD said:


> Well there it is field round confirmed. Now let's blow their doors off, and give them a reason to hold more than 1 f/h round there every couple of years.
> 
> No excuses if your with in 2-1/2 hours I expect to see you there.


I plan to be there.. I haven't shot a round since our SC trip.. and from the looks of the weather forecast, I might not get to again this weekend.


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## blondstar (Aug 15, 2006)

We will be there!! Also the nice thing about this shoot all the money they raise stay in the local community!!


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Ttt*

It is over all the nicest club in the area! It's a gun, archery, and angler paradise! But as has been mentioned, it only has one Field shoot a year! It would be great, if they had more, cause it's close for us as well! I might even shoot the 900 round on Mon. That would be different, as I have never done that before? Gee I hope I don't break any rules, or step on any toes, by shooting in Pa. ?????


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

golfingguy27 said:


> I plan to be there.. I haven't shot a round since our SC trip.. and from the looks of the weather forecast, I might not get to again this weekend.


You didn't drive quite that far. Still had couple of hours to go.:shade:


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Rain*

It just needs to quit raining, so I can get out and shoot!


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Spoon13 said:


> You didn't drive quite that far. Still had couple of hours to go.:shade:


lol.. oops.. good catch...


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

pennysdad said:


> It just needs to quit raining, so I can get out and shoot!


what are you gonna melt?


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> what are you gonna melt?


He's just too skeered to do like we did, and figure out his marks on the fly.
He wants nice weather so he can do all that at home before the shoot. 
I say grab your bow, and hit the course, you'll have at least somewhat usable marks by the half lol.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

as a side note, unless I get out to a shoot somewhere this weekend, this shoot will likely be the first shoot I use my new hinge release since it has been going well shooting in the back yard. I don't really care if my scores suffer a little bit as a result of the switch over. I think the hinge will benefit me more than the Evolution in the long run. And if I have a brain fart on using the hinge right, whoever is in my group may get to see me punch myself in the face... lol


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

BOWGOD said:


> He's just too skeered to do like we did, and figure out his marks on the fly.
> He wants nice weather so he can do all that at home before the shoot.
> I say grab your bow, and hit the course, you'll have at least somewhat usable marks by the half lol.


He doesn't even need to do that.....go to the range get a 30 and 50 or a 40 and 60 and slap a tape on it.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> as a side note, unless I get out to a shoot somewhere this weekend, this shoot will likely be the first shoot I use my new hinge release since it has been going well shooting in the back yard. I don't really care if my scores suffer a little bit as a result of the switch over. I think the hinge will benefit me more than the Evolution in the long run. And if I have a brain fart on using the hinge right, whoever is in my group may get to see me punch myself in the face... lol


That has bad habits written all over it.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

BOWGOD said:


> That has bad habits written all over it.


what ya mean? I don't think the hinge is really any different than the Evo once I get to full draw. Am I missing something?


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

The other small "problem" would be that I have found that switching between the Evo and the HT makes a BIG difference in my anchor and therefore my windage is WAY off. I bet I moved my sight a good 3/16" to get it shooting right with the HT, so practicing with one and shooting with the other is kind of a pain.. I think just biting the bullet and making the jump to the HT just makes the most sense. Don't get me wrong, I value your opinion, I'm just curious as to why you think it is a bad idea.


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## DHawk2 (Feb 18, 2007)

Personaly, I would stay with the Evo.
With the hinge, you can get into the habbit of just moving your hand to get it to fire or like I was doing, keeping to much tension in my hand and having trouble getting it to go off. With the Evo, you have to pull through the shot.

The only trouble I had using an Evo was that I pull hard against my wall. I had a holding weight of about 13lbs and the Evo was set at 23lbs so it wouldn't fire when I let the trigger go. This led to when I wasn't pulling as hard against the wall, it felt like I was pulling my guts out to get it to fire.

I'm now using a Just-B-Cuz and pulling through the shot with it...I like it a lot!


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

DHawk2 said:


> Personaly, I would stay with the Evo.
> With the hinge, you can get into the habbit of just moving your hand to get it to fire or like I was doing, keeping to much tension in my hand and having trouble getting it to go off. With the Evo, you have to pull through the shot.
> 
> The only trouble I had using an Evo was that I pull hard against my wall. I had a holding weight of about 13lbs and the Evo was set at 23lbs so it wouldn't fire when I let the trigger go. This led to when I wasn't pulling as hard against the wall, it felt like I was pulling my guts out to get it to fire.
> ...


Well, I know for sure in the big picture I want to go to a hinge. The debate is just wether I do it now during field season or wait until indoor season. I think as long as I learn to use the hinge correctly now, that there isn't really a big problem. I have been consciously making sure to just pull through the shot and not rotate my hand or changing tension in my fingers. It is actually feeling very good. Guess we will see. I just know I am starting to see the one problem with the Evo that I have heard several times before. Uphill and downhill shots change the amount of weight pulling on the release, and therefore make it go off sooner or later than expected.


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## DHawk2 (Feb 18, 2007)

If it's feeling good to you, then by all means shoot it. I still like my hinge, just had some mental problems with it and had to just step away from it for a while. Of course now I really like the Just-B-Cuz and won't be going back to the hinge for a while.


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Lol!!!*



Brown Hornet said:


> what are you gonna melt?


I might???


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Skeered??*



BOWGOD said:


> He's just too skeered to do like we did, and figure out his marks on the fly.
> He wants nice weather so he can do all that at home before the shoot.
> I say grab your bow, and hit the course, you'll have at least somewhat usable marks by the half lol.


Hmmm? Well that would give me a useable excuse! I just hate making excuses though!


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*I'll be ready!*



Brown Hornet said:


> He doesn't even need to do that.....go to the range get a 30 and 50 or a 40 and 60 and slap a tape on it.


There will be no "good" excuse if I don't make a respectable showing! Except for maybe a skeeter getting in my grapes!!!


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> Well, I know for sure in the big picture I want to go to a hinge. The debate is just wether I do it now during field season or wait until indoor season. I think as long as I learn to use the hinge correctly now, that there isn't really a big problem. I have been consciously making sure to just pull through the shot and not rotate my hand or changing tension in my fingers. It is actually feeling very good. Guess we will see. I just know I am starting to see the one problem with the Evo that I have heard several times before. Uphill and downhill shots change the amount of weight pulling on the release, and therefore make it go off sooner or later than expected.




In the big picture I do agree that going to a hinge, and dumping the evo is a good move. But going to the hinge right now is going to cause you problems, and develop bad habits I would put money on it. Learning to shoot a hinge is not something that happens overnight, and it is a 2 part process. First you have to learn a] how to shoot the hinge properly with out cheating it like Dhawk touched on. and b] You need to learn the feel, and ingrain it to muscle memory so that the shot is subconscious, and you do not have to think your way through it to make sure your making a good shot, and not cheating.
Second once you learn the proper way to shoot it, and have the shot ingrained into your subconscious you have to learn how to trust the shot. 

Most people completely skip that second step, and that is why most people fail in their conversion attempts. If you just bite the bullet, and start shooting it for field I bet my last dollar you end up cheating it or punching it. Back tension for you would be nothing more that a type of release, not a type os shot execution as it should be.
You already admittedly cheat the evo from time to time, you do not want to get off on the wrong foot with the hinge. Your best bet is to shoot the evo for the remainder of the season, or even go back to your thumb release. Practice with the hinge, but with no sight. Just blind bale a few times a week for a month or so. That will ingrain the shot into your subconscious. Then close to the end of summer start learning to trust the shot. Shoot it at targets with a sight, but stay at close range (10-15 yards) this way you learn to trust the shot, and can just focus on aiming, not the release. By the time indoors rolls around you'll be ready to make it your primary release, and by time field comes back in, you'll have it down pat.
I can almost guarantee if you rush the process 1 of 2 things is going to happen. 
1. you'll just keep hitting the wall never really figuring it out.
2. the hinge will end up as nothing more than a glorified trigger release, and you'll punch the snot out of it every shot.

It is very, very rare for someone to just pick up a hinge, and have it right out of the gate. It takes months, and months to learn to properly shoot a hinge for most people. And you can't do that shooting at long distances. You can do what ever you want, but rest assure I'll be here to say "told you so" in a month when your beating your head off the wall. If I were you I would just finish the season with the evo, or a thumb trigger, and just work on blind baling with the hinge for the next month or so. If you want to give me a call I can give you some pointers that will get you going in the right direction to figuring that thing out.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Good lord do you all make everything 100 times harder then it is?


He is a sub 500 shooter....it's not like he is shooting super now and gonna wreck everything. He is still learning might as well get the curve going. I don't see how waiting until 6-7 months from now is a good idea....not like there is a state, regional, or national title on the line that he can screw himself out of. If he takes a couple point steps backwards is it really a big deal. NO. 

Trouble waiting to happen...:chortle: the Evo is an awful release for most people to shoot field with. But it does teach you how to shoot a hinge correctly and much faster then just shooting a hinge and learning from scratch. 

Heck I shot an Evo for a while getting over TP and hated the thing outdoors....picked a hinge up and have been fine ever since. Sticky last summer shot a punch o matic....I gave him a handful of hinges which he had never even attempted to shoot before....a couple days later he was shooting the thing better then most of the guys I know that shoot a hinge....and that includes Bubbleguts. 

Learning to shoot a hinge is easier then learning to shoot an Evo well and a lot easier then shooting a thumb trigger correctly. 

Grimace shoot the damn HT already.....wait till indoors ...for what? :noidea: that maybe the worst advice you could hear.... Nationals isn't this weekend and if it was would it really matter? 

But then all of this is coming from someone that isn't afraid to let go of things and make changes when they need to be made.....and that doesn't need months to decide if I like something or if it's gonna work for me.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> Good lord do you all make everything 100 times harder then it is?
> 
> 
> He is a sub 500 shooter....it's not like he is shooting super now and gonna wreck everything. He is still learning might as well get the curve going. I don't see how waiting until 6-7 months from now is a good idea....not like there is a state, regional, or national title on the line that he can screw himself out of. If he takes a couple point steps backwards is it really a big deal. NO.
> ...


Since your so sure then you would be willing to bet me a grand that he won't be using the hinge as a trigger by next month right?

He already punches the evo. His scores shouldn't matter he should be learning to do things the right way now so he doesn't have to go back, and break bad habits later. It had nothing to do with fear of change. I've seen it too many times. If he just starts shooting it he'll end up shooting it like a trigger just like Jen does. Once that habit is developed it is 100X harder to break that habit, than it is to learn it right from the start.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

He isn't flinging arrows off the bail....he isn't punching that Evo. If you punch or try it with that thing it is down right hilarious. Pulling harder isn't punching. 

On top of that shooting an Evo is really just like shooting a hinge for the most part. 

The breaking bad habits now or then or from a hinge or an Evo doesn't matter....they are still bad habits and you still shouldn't wait to take care of them. 

If Jen develops bad TP this weekend are you gonna make her wait until Indoors to work on that also? 

But like you said....if his scores shouldn't matter then starting the process of learning to shoot a hinge now correctly is a much better idea then waiting 6+ months. Seriously how is putting off getting better a good idea? You may have seen people have problems.....they are also people not willing to work correctly and that want overnight success. 

Jen shoots her release that way because she wants too....just like everyone else that punches a release. If they wanted to shoot it the correct way they would.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

I have to say that Hornet and I are thinking along the same path here. We all have our opinion of what works, and that doesn't make any of them wrong. I know from my habits with the Evo that while at DCWC I did start a bad habit of punching a shot off every once in a while, but on Sunday when I told myself I wasn't going to do that anymore, guess what, I never did it once. Yes it took me a little longer to make a few of my shots break than I would have liked, but that is something I can work on. I think that as long as I get a thorough understanding of the right way to shoot the hinge and make a concious effort to not develop the bad habits, it's not a bad thing to get the learning process started now. Just my opinion based upon how I feel about my good and bad habits shooting the Evo, and knowing that if I tell myself I'm not going to punch a shot or use it like a trigger, I can do that.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I gotta say that when I started shooting in 2007, I shot 1 tournament with an index release. I realized it wasn't what I wanted and switched to a Carter Insatiable that a friend of mine had. I shot it for 1 tournament and then bought a hinge.

Been shooting a hinge ever since. It far easier to learn to shoot once than it is to learn everything and then learn to do something different. If you have shot the hinge and feel comfortable shooting it, I would say let it eat. That way once you get all the archery gremlins worked out you are then ready to focus on shooting better scores and making smaller adjustments to your form, or equipment or mental aspects of the game. Instead of being ready to get better only to have to take a step back by learning to shoot a hinge and then make the adjustments.

Once you get comfortable shooting a hinge I believe you can shoot ANY release regardless of how it works.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> I have to say that Hornet and I are thinking along the same path here. We all have our opinion of what works, and that doesn't make any of them wrong. I know from my habits with the Evo that while at DCWC I did start a bad habit of punching a shot off every once in a while, but on Sunday when I told myself I wasn't going to do that anymore, guess what, I never did it once. Yes it took me a little longer to make a few of my shots break than I would have liked, but that is something I can work on. I think that as long as I get a thorough understanding of the right way to shoot the hinge and make a concious effort to not develop the bad habits, it's not a bad thing to get the learning process started now. Just my opinion based upon how I feel about my good and bad habits shooting the Evo, and knowing that if I tell myself I'm not going to punch a shot or use it like a trigger, I can do that.


I never said to put off learning it. Start the learning process now, but do it right. Taking it on the field course to learn is not the process I would use to teach it to anyone though. Did you get the article I sent you?


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

BOWGOD said:


> I never said to put off learning it. Start the learning process now, but do it right. Taking it on the field course to learn is not the process I would use to teach it to anyone though. Did you get the article I sent you?


Yeah, I was actually reading it when I got the email notification saying there was a response to this thread. Work has been crazy the last few days, so I haven't even been able to shoot much... I woke up early enough today to shoot for about 15 minutes then shower and come back to work.. fun fun fun.


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

For what it's worth, I switched to my hinge in the middle of shooting at Redding. I found that I aim much better with the hinge so I went with it. I had fallen apart with the release I had been shooting so I wasn't worried about my score suffering, it had already taken a beating. I'm glad I switched and I won't look back. Don't wait for anything. If you have an issue, change it asap.


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## archerpap (Apr 24, 2006)

Let's give this shoot a bump as well. Will be here real soon. Looks like I'll be making the venture all 3 days. Hope to see some AT'ers there.


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## blondstar (Aug 15, 2006)

ttt peeps!!!


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