# 1 brass nock point vs. 2



## deebright (Sep 28, 2011)

I have always been shooting just 1 brass nocking point but recently I got a new string because my old one broke on me. I got the basic Fast-Flight string from 3 Rivers. The serving on this string is slightly looser than my past one and the arrow nock is slightly looser. Occasionally I get an arrow that is a little louder and shows some up and down nock movement in flight. I plan to put on another brass nock point below today and try it out. Could this be the issue or is it something else? Thanks


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

https://plus.google.com/photos/+MichaelTravis12c27/albums/5440061363494899889?banner=pwa


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I always use two brass nocks but what you are referring to is altogether something else.....I don't like the idea of loose threads or nocks.....you need to firm both up it appears to me but maybe if Viper1 sees this he can sort out your problems and give you a good solution on this......


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

I've always used two nock points even though I shoot split. I like the security and started doing it years ago so I could nock an arrow, hang my bow, and not worry about movement on the string. As a side benefit in recent years the high speed video shows the possibility of the nock sliding on the string, which can't happen with two nock points.

I see using two nocking points as eliminating one potential problem. Not everybody will benefit but it's easy to do and there's no downside that I know of.

I also like tied in nock points instead of brass. I use white thread and it makes positioning the arrow on the string easy in low light.

Even with a second nocking point, I still want proper nock fit on the string. It shouldn't be tight, but should snap on and not fall off if held so the arrow is hanging vertically from the string. A slight tap on the string should dislodge it. It's hard to describe the "just tight enough" feel, but if you have to tap the string more than a bit with one or two fingers to dislodge the arrow in my opinion it's too tight.

Too loose is also something to avoid, you run the risk of the nock slipping off due to finger pressure and the potential for a dry fire.

I'd reserve, or have someone else reserve your string if the nocks are too loose. A serving tool is relatively cheap (even an expensive one) and they last forever. Reserving is very easy, just need to measure or play with thread sizes to get the best fit. A good string maker will match the string they make for you to the nock you specify. If you can use g-nocks in your arrows they come in two throat sizes, sometimes that helps.


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## Tradchef (Oct 30, 2004)

I use to for my nock placement and then i have a third a bit below my nock for three under placement that helps me with my anchor consistency. I used to shoot with just one but i like two better


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## RoscoeP23 (Feb 27, 2013)

I use a brass nock and a lower soft nock made from 130# Dacron, it is fairly small but keeps the arrow from sliding down.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

also use brass on top, nail knot of serving for bottom nock. rough metric of nock fit...

should not fall off your string holding itself up, but you shouldn't be able to pick up your bow withh it either.


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## Sauk Mountain (Aug 3, 2015)

I've been using 2 nock points made with red dental floss for years and haven't found any drawbacks.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

Did ya ever notice that most of the trad guys pontificating about using two nocking points are typically the guys who couldn't break a 240 on a stationary indoor target if their lives depended on it? In all fairness most Olympic shooters use two nicking points (because their coaches told them too, not because they tested it, btw) except for a number of level 4 coaches I know and a character named Mckinney. 

IMHO, if you think it matters, it matters; if you think it doesn't matter, it doesn't. 

Again, 99% of the crap people worry about here would disappear, if they learned to set up their equipment and shoot correctly in the first place. 

dee - 

Your problem has little to do (directly) with the number of nocking points you use. You got a new string, may or may not be the same material, # of strands, length, etc, so it would only be by luck it you could just throw it on and expect the same results as your old string. More than likely, you bow needs a slightly different tune. And .. the only time a center serving is too loose, is when there's a danger of an accidental dry fire (ie the arrow falls off the string). 

My target bows have fairly medium to loose nocks and my hunting bow a little tighter (OK, something a lot tighter). 

Viper1 out.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Two tied in nocking points.

Unlike some posters without any competitive barebow experience I hold many state titles and an indoor record (282).

I will not shoot with a single when three under. Then again perhaps you need to be able to shoot at a reasonably high level to notice the difference, but I doubt it.

Grant


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

when in doubt listen to grantmac.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Only been using 1 brass nock, or using string servings instead of brass nock.

An option is to re-serve the string. 

Black BCY .026 Angel Majesty Serving Material Spool Bow String $9.99 shipped. (Double check this, to make sure the serving is not too thick for your needs.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181306097982?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Like Grant said. You can never be that good. Tie on two nocks. I use Nock thread from Lancaster.
Dan


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Lose the brass nocking points. Learn to tie nocking points on. Do a YouTube search and you will find many ways to do it.If done correctly you can just twist them up or down to adjust. Also use two. The arrow will slide down the string without one on the bottom. You can YouTube that also. There is a reason that almost every good barebow shooter uses two.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

Have always used two, whether shooting split or three under.
I use serving or nock thread and like them tied on a certain way.


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

I shoot 3 under and use 2 tie on nocks. I like to use dental floss and be able to move them while on the string. 

Also, I know it's not recommended, but I like to use a little dab of superglue on my nocks. It gives it that hard shell finish and makes it easier to twist imo.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Always use two. There's no reason not to.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> Did ya ever notice that most of the trad guys pontificating about using two nocking points are typically the guys who couldn't break a 240 on a stationary indoor target if their lives depended on it? In all fairness most Olympic shooters use two nicking points (because their coaches told them too, not because they tested it, btw) except for a number of level 4 coaches I know and a character named Mckinney.
> 
> IMHO, if you think it matters, it matters; if you think it doesn't matter, it doesn't.


:set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2:


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## ismo131 (Nov 19, 2014)

I use one nocking point. Have non problems with brass nocking points. But now i'm been testing if tyon would be smaller and better. But ewen i ty it werry tide it slip down sometimes ewen when i superglue it. So now on it is back to brass.


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

Wait a sec. if Viper is right then Bender should never have gotten that world record nor should I be shooting over 240 and nailing rabbits past 30 yards. Holy Crap!, someone better call Ellison and tell him and the rest of the team to take those extra nock locators off. Or is this about as accurate as the FOC formula in a famous book that's written mathematically incorrect. Order of operation is just as important as the variables. 

The OP's own experience demonstrates the arrow can and does move on the string with just one. The occasional pitching in flight is due to that. Another issue is the serving is too narrow and the back of the nock isn't maintaining good contact with the string which can cause a low arrow impact and what feels like a near dry fire. Better a little tight than too loose. I'd recommend something other than a second brass one. When the string is drawn back the nock locators can pinch the nock and possibly crack it if both are brass. Have one brass and the other dental floss, thread, serving, or something along those lines that can flex a little bit under pressure.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> https://plus.google.com/photos/+MichaelTravis12c27/albums/5440061363494899889?banner=pwa


Great slow motion video. I would have lost the bet on the amount of North/South nock travel during release. I'm off to add a second nocking point on my strings. 

Thanks for posting.


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

One correction, the math formula is formatted ok. Took a look at it myself and it it's fine.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

I wonder why their coaches told them to use two :wink:


Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> Did ya ever notice that most of the trad guys pontificating about using two nocking points are typically the guys who couldn't break a 240 on a stationary indoor target if their lives depended on it? In all fairness most Olympic shooters use two nicking points (because their coaches told them too, not because they tested it, btw) except for a number of level 4 coaches I know and a character named Mckinney.
> 
> ...


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

If there are possible benefits to having a second nock set (which the video Jim posted clearly illustrates), and no possible harm, one would have to question why anyone would advocate against it. 

Pride is the only thing I can think of.

KPC


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## Sauk Mountain (Aug 3, 2015)

GEREP said:


> If there are possible benefits to having a second nock set (which the video Jim posted clearly illustrates), and no possible harm, one would have to question why anyone would advocate against it.
> 
> *Pride is the only thing I can think of.*
> 
> KPC


Nailed it.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys -

It's call propagating a myth, by the same cast of characters.
If you're afraid of nock slide, you might was well use a whisker biscuit and eliminate paradox.

For anyone else.
I really don't care one bit if you use one nocking point, two or six. 
Just test it out and prove it for yourself. That's what I did, repeatedly. 

edit - and I've said this before, if the number of nocking points is your biggest problem in archery, you're probably not as good as you think you are, IMHO of course.

Viper1 out.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

GEREP said:


> If there are possible benefits to having a second nock set (which the video Jim posted clearly illustrates), and no possible harm, one would have to question why anyone would advocate against it.
> 
> Pride is the only thing I can think of.
> 
> KPC


Exactly...furthermore?....he goes on to say that the archers advocating (2) nocking points are...

*"the guys who couldn't break a 240 on a stationary indoor target if their lives depended on it"*

so let's break that statement down here for a moment...

1st off?...I think if a hunting archer can shoot 240?...that's pretty dang good...because you're talking a average score of 4pts per arrow...to average 4 points per arrow also means you're drilling a 5pt bulls-eye for every shot you put in the 3-ring...and the 3 ring?...is like 9 1/4"s in diameter...(about the same size as the kill zone on a deer)...but lets break that down even further because that's a "Diameter"...so even if you just 'cut-the-line" between the 3 ring and the 2 ring?...your arrow only struck but a scant 4 1/4" off center at 20yds which in my book?...still ain't bad...especially when you consider your broad head cut 1/2"+ into that!...but what really blows my mind here?...is the...

*"Single Mindedness"*

that going on there...because is he taking into consideration that many of the folks he's attempting to elevate himself at the expense of others by using demeaning commentary that he's simply not even taking into account that...many of "Those Others" he speaks of?...are shooting short, stealthy hunting weight bows?....does he even consider many are mounting multiple blade broad-heads and practice field points many of which exceed 175grs in weight?...to hunt and harvest medium-large size game with powerful bows shooting arrows that most likely weigh more than two of his?...I think not...yet in his world the measure of an archer is shooting a 240 indoor or you get flamed and belittled? 

I guess this is the resultant mindset one adopts when one THINKS "they wrote the book" on ALL things archery?

Tell ya what...if anybody wants to know just how important having TWO NOCKING POINTS is?...spin some 200gr points into some stiff shafts shot from a powerful hunting weight bow and then go try "Bare Shaft Tuning" that puppy with ONE (1) nocking point! LOL!....but keep your cell phone with you and have 911 on speed dial...with the ext.# too the mental health department handy! LOL!

and whatever you do?...don't slam your bow across the nearest tree....or?...

Just go with the smart play and use...Two...(2)...Nocking points. 

man...that was fun and easy! :laugh:


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Werner Beiter (that guy in the YouTube video) until his death ran the largest high performance archery center in the world and is the unquestioned (by most) expert on nocks and nocking points. But hey what does he know?
For me I'll stick with copying all of the successful barebow archers I've met, you know guys who compete and win internationally. Even though they don't write books.

Grant


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Hey, guys I discovered two nocks by buying a really short fast compound with a de-loop. Shot it for a year, two fingers under it shot so, so good. Before that I had to reserve the center serving because of nock wear. I got rid of the de-loop and add two small tied nocks because I found it slowed the bow down. Two tied on nocks weighs the same as one brass.
Dan


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> Did ya ever notice that most of the trad guys pontificating about using two nocking points are typically the guys who couldn't break a 240 on a stationary indoor target if their lives depended on it? In all fairness most Olympic shooters use two nicking points (because their coaches told them too, not because they tested it, btw) except for a number of level 4 coaches I know and a character named Mckinney.
> 
> ...





Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> It's call propagating a myth, by the same cast of characters.
> If you're afraid of nock slide, you might was well use a whisker biscuit and eliminate paradox.
> ...


This thread took an ugly turn. It's sad when someone has to resort to insult and innuendo to bolster their opinion.

I guess I'm just one of the incompetent and ignorant "trad guys" who feels it's a waste of time to test for the presence of a problem when the possibility of the problem is completely eliminated with a couple wraps of serving thread.


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

most have already experimented & found out what works & what doesn't long ago, hence two noks for small strings.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Apparently, the video that Jim Casto Jr. posted is just an optical illusion. 

In addition to that, it would appear that the actual FITA Coach's Manual is "propagating a myth" also. 

*Install the Nocking Point

This is a common step with all recurve bows. Install a
moveable nocking point on the bowstring. Clamp-on
types are satisfactory and easy to install but affect arrow
flight. We suggest that you use a tie on nocking point.

Initially, position the nocking point on the bowstring
about 5mm (1/4 inch) above square (Figure 7).
The nock of the arrow will be placed above this nocking
point. After this nocking point is in place tie a 2nd
nocking above the first one with sufficient room between
the two points so that a nock will easily fit between. This
will prevent an arrow from sliding down the string during
shooting.*

KPC


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

I just verified that my full length, .400 spine axis arrows actually do need 175gr points up front to properly tune as shot off my 56"/46# Thunder Child...and with a little more practice and familiarization with it?...I'm pretty sure I could bang out a 240 at 20yds with it (or dang close to it) but?...

only if I'm allowed to use Two Nocking Points! LOL! :laugh: 

It's a sad day when lives are being consumed in heated debate over "1 Or 2 Nocking Points"...especially when the guy who "wrote the book"?....is trying to tell others 1 is just dandy and 99% of those (of us) who use two couldn't shoot a 240 if their life depended on it?  

I gotta go...I hear my Thunder Child calling my name in the backyard! LOL!


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

When I read this......I laughed and laughed....

*"edit - and I've said this before, if the number of nocking points is your biggest problem in archery, you're probably not as good as you think you are, IMHO of course.

Viper1 out." *


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## barebow52 (Nov 7, 2007)

My personal preference is one


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

An unfortunate turn down Route Ugly on this thread. 

I went back and re-read (and re-read) the offending post, and believe some took personal offense, where none was meant. Tony is a coach, and speaks (writes) bluntly, like most good coaches are prone to do. 

Heralding the accomplishments of championship barebow shooters based on nock set choice serves a bit of unintentional irony here, as those champions are consistently addressing the 99% of things Tony was advocating focusing on in the first place. They have corrected all the major deficiencies in equipment and form, and get to work down the list of minor and micro deficiencies that can mean the difference between 1st and 2nd place.



Viper1 said:


> Again, 99% of the crap people worry about here would disappear, if they learned to set up their equipment and shoot correctly in the first place.


Personally, I'm going to take the 10 mins to tie a second nock set and it might mean breaking the line on occasion, vice hitting outside it. I'll spend the rest of the time correcting decades of poor shooting form.


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