# Nock height question



## slee (Aug 31, 2006)

I forgot to mention that I verified tiller, ATA, and brace height to be correct, and the tuning gap on the solocam is really close to correct.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Frankly I don't think I'd change anything at this point except maybe the longer sight settings. It's possible that with the broadhead being longer than a field point the FOC is slightly better which could make the arrows impact lower at longer ranges. Another alternative is to buy another sight and just use this for broadheads and hunting. I've never hunted Texas and would guess that you guys get the oppotunity for longer shots, else I would have said to limit yourself to 35 yards where you know your arrows impact well.


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## Mark Land (Dec 4, 2003)

What I found with those bows is they have alot of nock travel and when tuning drop away rests it is not uncommon to have the nock pt 3/8in or more above 90 to bare shaft tuned properly! Something does not sound right on your bow unless your nock pt is too low to begin with putting your arrow low on the riser hole.


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## slee (Aug 31, 2006)

I agree it seems something is off, but I have no idea what it is. I've been shooting for over 25 years, and I tend to not mess with things when I can get broadheads and field points hitting together. With that said, I just hate having my nock sitting below the arrow rest and Berger hole, even if it's ever so slight. Before changing the string and rest, this wasn't the case. I did shorten my arrows by 1", but that should have nothing to do with a low nock set. I'll inspect it closer before shooting again. Like I said, I'm tuned out to 35yds with BH and FP and have no problem just setting a pin for farther distances. I've got an elk hunt in CO next month, so I need to be able to shoot out to 50yds with confidence. I can do that by setting a pin and practicing.


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## Mark Land (Dec 4, 2003)

I'm with ya on that, hard to change something when it is shooting well, but with a new string change, I am definitely leaning towards your nock point being set too low on the string, that would be the reason for the arrow being low in the riser. As long as you are getting fletch clearance off the shelf there is really nothing wrong with it, unless you have it so low that your sight is too low to get enough clearance with the sight guard housing and your fletching to enable you to set a longer range pin, then you might have to change it, but should be able to get a lower pin set unless you also shoot with a low peep setting on the string as well. Good luck!


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## slee (Aug 31, 2006)

Here's my thought. If I raise the nock point, I'll have to raise my rest and my sights. The angle the arrow sits on the rest in relation to the nock point won't change, just everything moves up. I'm not having fletch clearance issues with the shelf because my rest is slightly above the Berger hole now since I fudged on nock position by slightly raising my rest and slightly lowering my nock point to make sure I didn't get into fletch issues. It shoots fine, no sight issues, and I have my normal anchor points set with the peep placement(thumb to bottom of jawbone, tip of nose to string, peep at eye level). I'm just trying to figure out why my nock point would be lower than the rest. I don't care, just wanting to make sure there isn't something I'm missing here. The purpose of tuning is to get everything shooting true for maximum efficiency and accuracy, and I'm pretty much there. I stopped shooting more than 1 BH at the same spot at 35yds because I cut my fletching. This is just a new issue. Not good or bad, just different. Things that make us go hmmm. I appreciate the responses.


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## Mark Land (Dec 4, 2003)

If the bow/arrow is shooting well with no contact issues with the shelf and your peep and sight are all aligned, I would not worry about it, just shoot and enjoy! Good luck!


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

Slee - humor me ....and my question(s) may never go anywhere. I don't know if you use a D loop or other...regardless, one's bowstring is usually served over several inches. Take your arrow and nock it onto the string, and onto the string serving specifically, but do so anywhere but your usual nocking location (above or below). After doing so..does your arrow move freely up and down the served part of the string with just light finger pressure, or almost no pressure? Or is the arrow nock tight such that you have to, with two fingers, force it a bit, or force it strongly up and down the string? I ask as in my experience...the tighter the nock is on the string serving the higher the paper tear.....hence one compensates by lowering the nock height/point (below level). To adjust or 'fix' this...one either increases overall bow poundage (a couple or several pounds) or changes nock type to one that is veryyyy loose...or freely slides up/down the string. As noted earlier this all may be totally irrelevant to your situation...I'm just sort of WAGing it....... nothing ventured, nothing gained.


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## Mark Land (Dec 4, 2003)

Your are on to something there Nomad and a point that I forgot to mention. A very tight nock on the string can definitely affect tuning and cause tuning problems, especially inconsistent ones. You want the arrow nock to snap on the string, but it also should release smoothly as well. Also be sure your string loop is not pinching the nock of the arrow, if it tries to raise the arrow as you draw, there is a problem. Use a tied on nock pt under your arrow nock and between the bottom knot of the string loop and your arrow nock and that will keep the arrow down on the rest and keep the loop from closing and pinching the nock.


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## slee (Aug 31, 2006)

No nock tightness. The nock slides very easily up and down the string. I shoot off the string with my release with an eliminator button under the arrow to avoid nock pinch. My groups are not inconsistent. Quite the contrary. They are very tight. I just don't know why my nock is sitting below my Berger hole ever so slightly, and my BH and FP are still about 3" apart at 45yds. The interesting thing is my pin gap between my 20 and 45 pin are the same. I just had to slide the housing up just a bit to get back on track with my 20yd pin. I could adjust the tiller to make it look more level, but the bow balances well in my hand. I don't really want to change the angle of the riser. Again, the purpose of the post is to see why the nock point might sit lower than normal. The bow shoots great. I'm not looking to readjust anything, unless there is something that is going to be a problem if I don't. It's just curiosity.


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## Mark Land (Dec 4, 2003)

Yep that is wierd cuz normally with attaching the release below the nock directly on the string, usually requires a slightly higher nock setting then just shooting off a string loop, so don't know what to tell ya, just shoot it I guess!


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

It's either in a limb or the arrow is a weak spine.

I'd try taking a turn off the limbs and see if you 3" spread at 45 turns into a 1-2" spread. If it does, I'd keep going until the BH were hitting above the FP and then start to lower the rest/raise the nocking point. 

I know its grouping good but I'd have mental issues with ever trusting a bow that was tuned nock down. Thats just me.


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

Not saying its the problem...and thanks for the amplification. I was someone who shot totally off the string back in days, with a eliminator botton...loved 'em! Figured out, after many years, that while your arrow may move freely up/down the string...adding an eliminator button equalled nock pinch, just as a finding a D loop to be too tight. No difference IMO. I hear ya....but eliminator buttons = D loop pinch which = high nock tear which can = needing to lower nock height. As one draws the bow the elimator button, as designed rides up (so to speak), creates a pinch and a nock high tear. $0.02. Under these conditions (w/ an eliminator button)....my best, BEST!, perfoming arrow was ALWAYS the one that was stiffest. Which, back in the day, meant that my best arrow at 62lbs and 26-1/2" D/L was a 300 spine arrow, or marginally .350. Any program will tell you that's wrong....wayy wrong (for my poundage, DL, etc.). The bow, today...definely does not shoot that set up......it ain't right. What is right ...is 62lbs, ~27.5" arrow, .400 spine, 26.5" D/L.....right on. Again..$0.02, for what it is worth. E-buttons, love 'em...will never use 'em again.!

kudos to Mark Land...and earlier poster......I hear ya!!


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

Okay, just thought in detail. I used to shoot a E-button, loved 'em. During the tuning process years ago I got a tail high tear thru paper with both a easton and goldtip arrows (using the E button). Used both arrow had their factory nocks that came with the order. It frustrated me tremendously...to the point (out of frustation) I grabbed the nock off a carbon express arrow, largely because I ordered CX arrows to try (and had them at that time), and the nocks came with them. After changing the nock on the arrow, and nocking it..wow it seemed bigger than the string.?..and was tremendouly more free, in the up/down sense. It tore through paper much, MUCH lower, but still a bit high. Changing to a non-constricting D loop reduced it even furhter ......what was 1/2" or more tail high nock tear was level or tail low, just by changing the nock. Today I have a very weird arrow....its a goldtip with a Easton insert (20g), blazer 2" vanes, carbon express nocks (getting hard to find), and an arrow wrap. It works for me...not necessarily for you. The point being that one should not wed oneself to things..we know what is expected in paper tuning and we know what is expected in walk back tuning...focus on the results, the outcome, and not bind ourselves to what we think or are told what should work.


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## slee (Aug 31, 2006)

The arrows are Gold Tip 7595 cut to 28", so it shouldn't be a weak spine issue. And that is usually a left/right issue with groups. I thought about backing off a limb to see what happens. Worse case, I move it back to bottomed out. As far as the nock pinch, that makes since that it could be affecting the flight. I have thought about switching to a loop, but have been reluctant because it will extend my anchor point farther back on my jaw. If I go any longer on my draw, I start getting into wrist torque issues. I appreciate the responses. Lots of good info coming out of this.


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## sweet old bill (Apr 21, 2003)

SLEE it sure seems you have done just about everything to get those arrow flying. bUt can a old man suggest you kjust go back and setup the WB rest so that as you look at the berger button your arrow is in the center of the berger button and then put your nock point 1/8 inch high. I would thing then with walk back tuning you shoul;d be able to get real close. I then would again try to check out the BH and how they fly. I had a new Hoyt one year that no matter what I did I could not seem to get the bh's to fly the same as the field points. SO after about 40 hours on the bench and paper tuning. I asked a easton rep if it could be nocks and or athe spine of the carbon arrows for the setup I was using. He said did I paper tune, was I using a release ( what brand )and then he said to hell with paper tune. just put some baby powder on the rest / rise area and shoot a arrow, check out the drag marks and make corrects if you see that you have vanes hitting the rest or riser. If no issue then you are good as gold. You may have to fine tune the setup for BH, and just have a sight to put one for that setup. I at the time had my own part time bow shop so I order in a 4 pin sight, set it up for BH and never looked back. The difference was slight, I think it was due to fixed head muzzy BH, they had more drag than a field point, I had to move the sight out a hair and the gaps for 45 yards and 55 yards was again a hair more. I hope this helps and get a good one on your hunt.


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## slee (Aug 31, 2006)

Bill, that's exactly what I did to start with. I set the WB up even with the Berger hole, centered the string with the rest and sight pins, put my nock point 1/8" high. Then I started walk back tuning out to 45yds, making very small adjustments. Then I switched to BH to match FP and BH POI. When I was done, I could hit the same spot out to 35yds. With limited time and space to shoot long distances, I don't think I want to repeat the process again. My arrow flight with BH is really good. The Blazers are working well. I start my elk hunt 4 weeks from tomorrow. My plan is to probably leave things alone until I return and can really play with it without fear of jacking something up before I leave.


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## slee (Aug 31, 2006)

Update...I guess my setup wasn't so tuned. I shot for almost 2 hours in the 3D room this afternoon with FP, and just couldn't get consistent flight past 20 yards. What a difference from my last time I shot. I decided to walk back tune it again just to see if something was different. After getting inconsistent flight with walk back tuning, I broke down and shot through paper. Tail high and right. I decided to start over by putting everything back to original positions, putting the nock back to align arrow with the Berger hole. The tear got better, but still slight tail high and slightly right. The guy at the shop suggested dropping down from 125gr tips to 100gr. What do you know, bullet hole. Then, I went to the broadhead wall and got things dialed in with FP and some NAP HellRazors. I'll head back next week to get things dialed in more. I was told that the 125gr tips were probably causing too much arrow flex coming off the string, or essentially weakening the spine. Whatever the reason, the arrows fly great with what seems to be less bowshock and string noise. I've been shooting 125gr Montec G5s for years now with no issues, but I guess a new string/cable, a new rest, new arrows cut 1" shorter than previous was just too many changes. I appreciate all of the suggestions and information given on this post. It's a work in progress, but I definitely feel better about my current rest positioning. The nock point looks more normal now.


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