# Bubble goes Right during shot...Bow leaning left...Help



## Ak_Mathews

OK so for those of you that shoot very well, I mean consistently...I'm curious if this has ever happened to you, and if so what the fix was? Here's the problem...

When I first draw back my bow and anchor the bubble is level for probably 2-5 seconds, as the shot goes on longer and longer the bubble moves to the right i.e., the bow is leaning left. So it sounds like an easy fix, take weight off that side, but that's not the fix because the bow levels out fine in the beginning. Its only as the shot continues to go on that it starts "leaning" that direction. 

My thoughts are that my form is "falling" apart. I'm strong at the beginning of the shot, but as I start to break down the bow begins to lean. I'm just curious if anyone has had this problem before and what the fix was. I'm also thinking maybe its a grip problem, but I've had this issue for a couple years now in 2 different bows, and weight configurations. And I've gone from shooting a very middle of the hand form, to now I'm on the pad (fat part) of my thumb-palm mostly. 

My 15" back bar is ran as close to the strings as possible, its not way out to the side. 

Right now my setup is...

-Prime STX B Cam 29.5" Draw length, 30" stabilizer out front with 10 oz, 15" back bar with 20 oz.-short sure loc bar 

-Hoyt Pro Comp Elite (short) 29.5" draw length with spirals, 30" bar, and 15" back bar mounted out the same hole as the front bar (not lower mount) - short sure loc bar

Thank you for any advice or thoughts in advance.


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## oldpro888

Impossible to give you anything definitive without seeing a shot sequence or your grip. 
Over forty years as a pro, teaching hundreds, the number one flaw is improper grip. My estimation is if you lined up 100 amateurs at the Vegas shoot, 75 would have improper grip. If you did the same in the pro devision, you would be hard pressed to find a bad grip.
Do you have left-right issues from one session to the next? That's a tell tale sign. Great shooters never have to change sets, ever. 
This bleeds over to tuning. Tough to get a good tear if you are torquing the bow.


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## Ak_Mathews

I definitely miss left the most.


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## Padgett

I like what oldpro888 had to say, to me if you have a poor grip and there is a lot of funny pressure in it that the stabilizers are fighting with right from the start then as the shot progresses that funny pressure could be changing and tilting the bow. 

Now if this is not the issue then it is in your execution and you may be running a collapsing shot that is designed to end up right where you are seeing your shot going south. The key here is to learn the fundamental things that must be in your shot execution so that the shot isn't in a constant state of collapse.

Are you valley sitting and then trying to pull into the wall?

Before touch the thumb trigger or before you release the thumb peg do you apply a good amount of back tension preload into the wall?

Do you wait for the sight pin to be perfect and pause the shot until it is perfect and then try to start the execution? 

Are you just standing there waiting for it to fire or are you running a firing engine?

If you are standing there or running a firing engine if that effort is not working do you then do some extra effort to make the release fire?

Any of these areas or a combination of them can be layered problems that you need to work on and find the best way to execute your shot, to me coming to anchor and adding some preload before I begin aiming is a huge positive to my shooting and then learning how to transition between the subtle parts of the shot without pausing is another big positive part of the shooting. It is so hard to know where you are at and what things you are doing correctly and what things need to be worked on or eliminated.


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## Ak_Mathews

I think just the basic discussion of options is what will be most beneficial. Because as we discuss I can try new things and it makes me think of things as well. I definitely haven't been pulling hard into the wall because the valley on the prime is big. My pce had no valley so I had to pull hard into the wall. That is definitely something I will be fixing and then experimenting with changing. I have mods coming to adjust the let off. I want more holding weight and a smaller valley. I think although I don't like it, it helps me execute a better shot.


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## Padgett

Cool, this may be a perfect time for you to take a couple days and do some draw length work. Once you get the draw length perfect with a d-loop that is the correct length you can come to anchor and get to the wall and then add some Back Tension Preload to the wall and get inside the wall a little. For me it is not a pull the bow apart thing but I can feel myself getting into the wall and that tension spreads throughout my system and it makes me very stable. It is done before you start aiming and I do it as my pin is coming over to the spot kind of when I would be checking the bubble and getting my shot settled in. Then once I transition to aiming and execution of the shot my preload can compliment my shooting without me having to try and add it later and screw things up. 

This is totally different than coming to anchor and settling into the valley and then starting the shot and pulling into the wall because when you do this the first part of the pull seems smooth but as you hit the wall the harsh wall ends up pulling your pin off the target and creating funny float issues and then you feel the desire to pause and then you loose the tension you just added to the wall and the pin wants to drop out the bottom so then you react to that issue and end up pulling into the wall and the process just goes down the toilet. That is why we want to get the preload into the system with a proper draw length right from the start before the shot even begins. 

Once you adopt this kind of setup the overall holding weight isn't as big a deal because you create your own holding weight with the preload against the draw stops. The spiral cam type bows that have little to no valley and super high holding weight basically scare people into creating preload to just survive the bow. You can have the same effect by just understanding what preload is and then adding it to your current bow by working on the draw length.


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## SonnyThomas

Well, yes, grip would be #1. When did you set up the bow? Too low a peep may also be a cause for something as backwards as you have explained.


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## Brian A

Are you shooting with both eyes open or closing one eye? If closing one eye, does that eye seem to start peeking the longer the shot lasts??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RCR_III

I've got something for you to try and I bet it fixes your issues. 

You need to move the side rod out away from the riser. Sounds counter-intuitive right? Well, right now you're trying to balance the bow left and right with a neutral hand and you're finding the bow leans left during the shot. This is because you haven't given any of the energy, or lack of energy at this point, a direction. You're letting things float. This is causing you to break down. 

Give the energy a direction. By pulling the side bar out from the riser you will have to put pressure into keeping the hand turned into the riser to keep the bubble in the middle. This gives energy a direction. This gives you something to push against and will keep you from havnig a lean. 

You don't need to go crazy with this. Little steps. It'll feel weird at first every time, but just keep moving it out one notch at a time and shooting with it till it feels normal again. Then see if the problem continues. If it does, move it out another notch and repeat. You'll find the correct positioning and allow you to keep the bubble in the middle. 

If you find yourself too far out of norm or just want to check your stabilizer set ups, I have a complete method of set up on my website in an article you can read through and set the bars up from scratch as well.


Ak_Mathews said:


> I think just the basic discussion of options is what will be most beneficial. Because as we discuss I can try new things and it makes me think of things as well. I definitely haven't been pulling hard into the wall because the valley on the prime is big. My pce had no valley so I had to pull hard into the wall. That is definitely something I will be fixing and then experimenting with changing. I have mods coming to adjust the let off. I want more holding weight and a smaller valley. I think although I don't like it, it helps me execute a better shot.


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## RCR_III

This will also help with the left misses. The bow arm is staying nuetral with your current set up and it's allowing it to swing out to the left. Adding the pressure into the riser with the grip as I talked about in the previous post will keep the bow arm from swinging out so easily as well.


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## Huntinsker

If this happens to me, it's because I'm getting lazy and letting my bow arm elbow rotate downward so it points towards the ground.


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## Toxo-Philite

Ak_Mathews said:


> OK so for those of you that shoot very well, I mean consistently...I'm curious if this has ever happened to you, and if so what the fix was? Here's the problem...
> 
> When I first draw back my bow and anchor the bubble is level for probably 2-5 seconds, as the shot goes on longer and longer the bubble moves to the right i.e., the bow is leaning left. So it sounds like an easy fix, take weight off that side, but that's not the fix because the bow levels out fine in the beginning. Its only as the shot continues to go on that it starts "leaning" that direction.
> 
> My thoughts are that my form is "falling" apart. I'm strong at the beginning of the shot, but as I start to break down the bow begins to lean. I'm just curious if anyone has had this problem before and what the fix was. I'm also thinking maybe its a grip problem, but I've had this issue for a couple years now in 2 different bows, and weight configurations. And I've gone from shooting a very middle of the hand form, to now I'm on the pad (fat part) of my thumb-palm mostly.
> 
> My 15" back bar is ran as close to the strings as possible, its not way out to the side.
> 
> Right now my setup is...
> 
> -Prime STX B Cam 29.5" Draw length, 30" stabilizer out front with 10 oz, 15" back bar with 20 oz.-short sure loc bar
> 
> -Hoyt Pro Comp Elite (short) 29.5" draw length with spirals, 30" bar, and 15" back bar mounted out the same hole as the front bar (not lower mount) - short sure loc bar
> 
> Thank you for any advice or thoughts in advance.


Check to see if your release is twisting the string. that may be the culprit. Have someone spot you and see if the bow stays vertical at full draw.

By the way are you left handed?


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## Helios

I've been having some trouble with my left-right consistency as well and find my bubble going to the right after a while a lot. Reading your comment just made me realize that I twist my release hand a little too much (just confirmed it too). I can't believe this had slipped my mind earlier... Thanks a bunch!


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## XForce Girl

I'm not going to get into the cure too deep because there is already terrific advise given. 

One thing that jumped out to me was that you have 10oz. up front, that seems to me to be an awful lot. You may be using your hand and forearm muscles to keep the front of the bow up and this is causing your issues, or at least contributing to them.


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## Tkhunter45

You ever figure out what was causing issue? I'm having same prob and it's driving me crazy. Shop claims grip is good, but bubble will not stay in middle.


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## nestly

I would set up a video camera first on your anchor, then on your bow hand. I think your form is likely breaking down possibly because of too much holding weight, or draw length too long.


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## RCR_III

I'd keep a watch on your front shoulder and collapsing at the shot. As you over aim and collapse the front shoulder rises up and back. This will let the bow hand rotate due to bone structure in the forearm. You'll also lose the tension holding against the bow. 

You can test this by holding the bow arm out without the bow. Then pull the bow shoulder up and back and watch the hand rotate counter clockwise.


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## Tkhunter45

I've been working on keeping shoulder down... could be it. Think my elbow was wrong as well...pointing down and not out. Not sure how my form goes to crap all of a sudden.


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## Padgett

It just happens sometimes


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## Tkhunter45

Where should the pressure on the heel of your thumb? Feel like mine might get too low on the heel. I'm thinking way too much at this point...harder I try worse it gets.


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## RCR_III

Tkhunter45 said:


> Where should the pressure on the heel of your thumb? Feel like mine might get too low on the heel. I'm thinking way too much at this point...harder I try worse it gets.


Healing the grip will force tension into the forearm. You'll want even pressure all along the hand as you place the hand onto the grip. There's a flat spot if you move the hand around and find it too on the thumb pad. This will help you stay steadiest and reduce the amount of influence from torque.


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## Tkhunter45

Appreciate it!


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