# Fine tuning float



## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

IMHO, draw length, draw length and draw length. My input: order several feet of the best d-loop material and experiment with loop length down to 1/16th inch or less. And, if the pin dropping below the target stays an issue, take a look at George Ryals on shoulder position. He suggests that a pin that floats low is often due to a draw shoulder that has gotten too high.


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

I bought 50' of loop at worlds. I think I can manage a few loops! Thanks for the advice, and I've watched that video...I think I need to do some video of myself and watch the playback and see if my shoulder is running away on me lol


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Been thinking a bit more on what is happening with your current setup. Don't know your age, but as I get older I have more pin movement if I don't really concentrate on keeping solid back tension. If I get lazy, things start to move. If I stay in the shot, I'm as still as ever. Also, as an old guy, I hate to let down. I might never get the bow drawn, again. LOL. Seriously, I'm working on letting down if my pin floats low.


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Letting down is something I'm definitely going to start doing more of this indoor season instead of forcing it back to the x. And I'm 31, not too young but not old yet... But it sure does feel like it :/


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Float and stabilizers: if you're sure your back shoulder isn't forcing a low pin, then add back weight or subtract front weight for a pin that moves up or down the longer you hold. Work your side-to-side float with back bar angle. You may already know more than I about setup, but I humbly offer what works for me. Also, I'm more of a believer in creating some resistance with my stabilizers and not just finding perfect balance. A balanced bow moves easily. Where there is some dynamic resistance in the bow hand, there can be more stability. A simple example of balance vs. resistance and their relationship to stability is the pyramid. A perfect pyramid can be balanced on either point. That is the picture of perfect balance. However, it is very unstable and can be tipped over with little effort. Put that same pyramid on any side and its perfect resistance makes it perfectly stable. Moving it requires great effort. You've got a great rig. Hope it serves you well.


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

I can't wait to build it tomorrow and see the paint job. He powder coated it white and it has flo green strings. Should look awesome! And I like your example. And to be honest, I could probably stand to lose some weight off the front stab... 7 oz is a bit, right?!


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

That's too much for me, but the 19 back is also. Your rig has significant gross weight. See how it holds.


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## Strodav (Apr 25, 2012)

Agree with most of the posts. I've got an ounce on a 33" front B-Stinger and 7 oz on the 12" B-Stinger sidebar. Immediately after the shot, the bow stays flat, does not jerk up or down, with just a bit of movement to the right then back to the left. I've been playing with adding and taking some twists out of the bow string and it does impact float and ability to hold on target. Another thing I have to be careful with is my release hand. I use a Scott Backspin and have to be careful not to relax / flatten my release hand too much (like I do with a thumb release), which reduces the amount of rotation I get with back tension, which tends to increase my float especially closer to the shot.

I really love the PCE, but it really does take good, consistent form and total concentration to get the most out of it.


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Anything else? I already plan to manipulate my weights. Actually, since I said that, does anyone have a process that they use to define how much weight should go where. Let me out it this way....like starting out with the the front bar...manipulate weights, then add the back bar...manipulate weights, them manipulate the angle?! Is there a proper approach that might help me find a better starting point? I essentially just loaded up my back bar until the float slowed, but never really took the time to do it step by step, if there is such a way?


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Take a look at this thread. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2350183 Nuts & Bolts goes through his process. It's in the General section and is titled "Torque with Stabilizers".


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Just by reading your original post I can tell that you need to get with me and discuss how you are actually shooting your release, your float issue is more than likely a combination of some lingering control issues over the shot and possible your firing method. So pm me and give me a shooting summary of how you do things along with your type of release and I will do what I can.


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Padgett said:


> Just by reading your original post I can tell that you need to get with me and discuss how you are actually shooting your release, your float issue is more than likely a combination of some lingering control issues over the shot and possible your firing method. So pm me and give me a shooting summary of how you do things along with your type of release and I will do what I can.


I can do that when I get off work this evening. May be later on tonight tho. Thank you and I will pm you when I get time!


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Your:

bow setup
mental approach
firing engine
form

All of these can and do affect your float and I am really big on the mental approach and firing engine stuff. To me the bow setup and form issues are two areas that can be tweeked in a short amount of time but the mental approach and firing engine areas are where the months of training come from to get on top of them and start really shooting solid.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Man, that "dip low and then fighting back into the x" sounds all too familiar.

The way I control this is a strong anchor in my back. When I draw past the let-off, I can't relax at all, I have to stay strong in my back muscles. It takes a little work to find a balance between staying strong in my back and leaving enough range of motion to execute the shot, but it's nothing you will have a problem with.

I'll read everyone else's advice on reducing float with interest, because I need to work on it too. Good thread.

Allen


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Ta2guru13 said:


> Anything else? I already plan to manipulate my weights. Actually, since I said that, does anyone have a process that they use to define how much weight should go where. Let me out it this way....like starting out with the the front bar...manipulate weights, then add the back bar...manipulate weights, them manipulate the angle?! Is there a proper approach that might help me find a better starting point? I essentially just loaded up my back bar until the float slowed, but never really took the time to do it step by step, if there is such a way?


Most definitely.


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

pwyrick said:


> Take a look at this thread. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2350183 Nuts & Bolts goes through his process. It's in the General section and is titled "Torque with Stabilizers".


Thank you pwyrick


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

nuts&bolts said:


> Most definitely.


Would you like to elaborate or is it all covered in the thread he posted the link to? And thanks Alan. I always appreciate your take on things


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

So I read everything that nuts&bolts posted about torque tuning with stabilizers and his 3 step set up method. I only have one question....are all the arrows, fired one at a time, shot at 20 yards? I'm assuming so, but I know a lot of nuts&bolts tuning techniques, etc are from close range. So is this a 2m or 20 yard setup technique?


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Sorry I don't know your bow, also could not give my undivided attention to the loooong post above, still would like to address a single issue people most likely missing a point...Beside the mental game or engine or form issues just a little insight....

Holding weight, where is it in your case? And how much you holding, 14 or 17 or 20 or 24 lbs?
You holding the weight before the valley, inside the valley or beyound the hump the other side of the valley on the limb stop? 
this what I am asking









If you hold some really low 15 lbs and pull hard into backstop and have overweight on stabilizers (the total weight is just way too high) you will most likely never able to slow the float as you would hold 22 lbs before the valley (or with a little training at the back side of the valley but just kissing the cable stop) with way less weight on stabilizers....
Second, if you pull hard to the backstop, your DL is not as you think it is, you can check these out on a draw board, any questions I have more pics about...
I have played a lot with 50-60% and 60-70% DL modules and cam sizes, you can read about my findings posted in an other subforum....
{those other colored lines are the results from tweaking timing and powerstroke, just a couple twists here and there and the feel and hold is totally different}


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## Ta2guru13 (Dec 16, 2011)

Thank you Alan! I plan to enroll to your online coaching as soon as I get back from my family vacation. I will work on this until I'm ready. Thanks again!


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

great thread!


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