# Draw Arm Alignment



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

krad - 

While getting the drawing forearm in line with the arrow is optimal, it just ain't gonna happen with some people. 
That's due to individual anatomy, preferred anchor and month/year of birth ...

If your back tension (pulling) is maintained through the release and follow-through, the hand will either still come straight back the way you think it should or it will come back consistency, albeit slightly away (lateral) from it's anchor position on release. Either is acceptable.

Viper1 out.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Keep an eye on your draw hand wrist. If it's broken inward you may never be able to get your forearm in line because that wrist bending inward will cause your elbow to move outward (out of line with the arrow). Try to keep the wrist straight or even slightly broken outward and I'll bet you'll be able to get in line better. Like Viper1 said though, some people don't have the body geometry to allow for it perfectly, but since you say you can do it with a stretch band I bet your wrist is at least part of the culprit.









-Kent W.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> If it's broken inward you may never be able to get your forearm in line because that wrist bending inward will cause your elbow to move outward (out of line with the arrow).


Sometimes I wonder if the techniques we teach are not simply the same old methods repeated over and over again. 

When I watched this young lady shoot, it became apparent to me that perfect draw side alignment and breaking of the wrist were maybe not as important as we have all been taught.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Sometimes I wonder if the techniques we teach are not simply the same old methods repeated over and over again.
> 
> When I watched this young lady shoot, it became apparent to me that perfect draw side alignment and breaking of the wrist were maybe not as important as we have all been taught.
> 
> View attachment 2175365


Agree! That the release angle is roughly in line (as close to zero angle as possible) with the linear angle of the bow centerpoint/string is the real goal. 

Park Sung Hyun also looked to be outside the line at anchor, but her pulling/release angle was obviously superbly 'on' and consistent.

And, just as in Park's case, judging by this slow mo of Darrell Pace, finger control of the release process looks to be supreme, as it wouldn't matter if Darrell was doing windmills with his drawing elbow after the release happens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SZwly7qPbs

Of course, for most of us mortal types who have less than worldclass reflexes and finger dexterity, being 'in/close to' zero angle alignment gives us our best chance at consistency under pressure (imo).

A solid/stable bow arm/shoulder and soft fingers off the string make up for a lot of sins elsewhere.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

She was measurably outside the line at anchor and her wrist obviously broken. 

When arguably the best archer in the history of the sport shot this way, it is impossible to simply ignore it as an exception to the rule.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Kent, John -

I'm not buying the "preferred" wrist position thing.

The way I look at it (and teach it), is that the drawing arm from the elbow down is limp (relaxed) during the draw and anchor except for two flexor muscles in the forearm that create the finger hook. With that, the wrist will fall into as near a straight line as possible. Trying to "get it" into a prescribed position just wastes energy. 

The only caveat, is that we, being human, will have trouble doing anything perfectly. Therefore getting it as close to "the theory" as possible is usually good enough. The better someone gets at it, the closer to the theory it gets. 

Viper1 out.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

I understand all the points made, but every JOAD kid I have worked with (admittedly not a huge amount) had difficulty getting their draw elbows back in line with the arrow and had messy releases. All of them having this difficulty saw significant improvement by adjusting their wrist angles away from being broken inward. Now an elite level archer might have reason to shoot differently than this and who could argue with Park Sung Hyung's amazing shooting. I was just making a suggestion as to something to try, not advocating it in all and every situation. Really, the wrist and elbow alignment problems are probably just symptoms of something else that's the fundamental cause, but watching that draw wrist angle really helped these beginners improve their form.

-Kent W.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Doesn't even look like Oh's arm is in straight alignment with the arrow line.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1501586390053687&set=vb.1486836011528725&type=2&theater


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

c365 said:


> Doesn't even look like Oh's arm is in straight alignment with the arrow line.
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1501586390053687&set=vb.1486836011528725&type=2&theater


Right. But the salient takeaway (at least for me) is that their hands never come out - the pulling force of their back/shoulder is straight back or even inside the line (they're using their biceps to keep their hand in). 

The scary thing about that video is I saw only one arrow (out of probably 50) in the red - an 8 that missed yellow by about 1/4" ... yeeesh!


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## krad54 (Nov 6, 2012)

@williamskg6: Do you have any tips on keeping the wrist cocked? My wrist ends up breaking inwards, which I think is harming back tension.
@limbwalker: Yeah, I definitely can't get my hand perfectly under my chin like the "ideal" archer, but I'm finding that my release is moving laterally by a couple of inches and then back, in an arc of sorts.

Thanks for the help everyone!


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

Where does your draw hand end up at anchor, and do you rotate far enough to get the shoulders in line with your bow arm (left picture):


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## krad54 (Nov 6, 2012)

ThomVis said:


> Where does your draw hand end up at anchor, and do you rotate far enough to get the shoulders in line with your bow arm (left picture):


Generally my bow shoulder alignment isn't a problem, but I did think of that. My issue is more scapular rotation. Thanks for the idea though!


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> She was measurably outside the line at anchor and her wrist obviously broken.
> 
> When arguably the best archer in the history of the sport shot this way, it is impossible to simply ignore it as an exception to the rule.


I'd say that it is tough to take lessons from what any *single* successful archer does, rather you need to look at many archers and look for common denominators (which I think you generally do, just not in this post). Should I take Michele Frangilli's big, puckery lips as a key? Or Rick MicKinney's ultra open stance? Or Butch Johnson's high elbow?

I'm not disagreeing with your contention that Park's style is a winning technique that we can all learn from, only making a pedantic point that in a sample size of one it can be hard to tell an archer's idiosyncrasies from the fundamentals that are of use to us all.


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## Georgemay (May 27, 2008)

krad54 said:


> Hey everyone, I hate to add to the number of form questions that have been popping up recently, but here I go anyways. Recently at practice I've noticed that I'm having trouble getting my draw elbow behind the line of the arrow. What ends up happening is that I draw with my back for the first part of my shot, but, when I need to come to anchor, my hand just comes in instead of rotating to that point. As a result, when I release, my hand pops outwards and I don't get the clean backwards-only motion of the release. I think my problem is mostly just getting into my back further. I can do it with a stretch band, but I'm having difficulty with the bow itself. Does anyone have any advice?
> 
> Just as some background, my draw length is about 31" and I'm shooting a 70" bow with 28# limbs and I'm pulling about 32# where my bolts are right now. I should be able to upload some video later, but I'd rather not post it, so just PM me if you'd like to watch. Thanks everyone!


Have you tried to exercise with form strap? It will do wonders in your situation.
http://www.kslinternationalarchery.com/Training/SPTs/SPTtrainingHandbook.pdf


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

Didn't Park have chronic draw wrist pain and a draw shoulder injury?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

kshet26 said:


> Didn't Park have chronic draw wrist pain and a draw shoulder injury?


Yes, that is true.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

krad54 said:


> @williamskg6: Do you have any tips on keeping the wrist cocked? My wrist ends up breaking inwards, which I think is harming back tension.


Try to make sure your wrist is "set" from the very beginning and keep it that way the entire time. It takes practice. You'll have to think about it actively for the first few hundred shots, then it becomes more habitual. 

-Kent W.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

No, in fact you should avoid setting your wrist. The wrist should "break". Also, you should twist it (or should I say, let your forearm twist naturally, as if you're pulling an arrow out of the target butt).

Try it.


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## krad54 (Nov 6, 2012)

Sorry for the slow response. I'll definitely try working with a form strap. 

@theminoritydude: So basically keep my wrist in a more natural position rather than forcing it to cock outwards?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Georgemay said:


> Have you tried to exercise with form strap? It will do wonders in your situation.
> http://www.kslinternationalarchery.com/Training/SPTs/SPTtrainingHandbook.pdf


That's a great suggestion George. I found Lee's form straps to be quite useful while working at the JDT camps.


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## tigersdad (Jun 13, 2009)

Got in line last night....in a different manner. I shot a PB of 285 at state two weeks ago, using square stance and really out of line 4 or so inches. Setting new goal of 290, I feel getting in line will help. Toward that end, I experimented with a very closed stance...angling my feet behind the line....upon drawing..presto zesto.. my elbow was inline. 

Arrows grouping well though, honestly, I did not feel really as stable. Please comment with your experience.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

krad54 said:


> @theminoritydude: So basically keep my wrist in a more natural position rather than forcing it to cock outwards?


Imagine your wrist being a loose hinge. Not only is this going to stop the forearm muscles from engaging unnecessarily, from a geometrical analysis it also reduces the effort wasted by your biceps, with your draw hand in line with your nock and grip. Of course, if you're on the NTS, this wouldn't be relevant at all. This is the way Park Sung Hyun draws.

Do differentiate a loose wrist, with a deliberate bending of the wrist. They are different, even though they look the same.

One other trick (it should be basic IMO) is to bend your fingers very slightly backwards at the knuckles, and feel the pressure of the string shift slightly to the first (the nail) segment of your fingers. Do not allow that segment to yield. If you do this right, your back muscle engagement becomes very obvious to you, and with that, total clicker control by your back.


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