# First Impression: BCY Dynaflight 10



## PDB Strings (May 13, 2010)

Wait a second....you gained speed with a different string material? I thought this was impossible. You must have cut down on the strand count. Or is speed gain only possible with a BCY product since you seem to have a negative response in pretty much every astro flight/speed gain thread.


----------



## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

:shade:I guess 452X and Trohpy are a thing of the past now D-10 is here...

Come on now you have to have a sense of humor and a little humble :slice:


All kidding aside, good to here that it works well for you...Whats the retail for a roll of it


----------



## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)




----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

PDB Strings said:


> Wait a second....you gained speed with a different string material? I thought this was impossible. You must have cut down on the strand count. Or is speed gain only possible with a BCY product since you seem to have a negative response in pretty much every astro flight/speed gain thread.


That's right, but not the excessive, over blown claims that some make around here. Just so you won't be confused about what I have said many times. I believe most "excessive" speed gains that are "supposed" to be material related only are mostly do to other factors. I have nothing against Brownell products, but historically, there have been some folks on here that have made some pretty outlandish claims about their product line. Remember TS1? Some claimed speed gains in excess of 20 FPS... Sorry if I have offended some by challenging some of this crap...

That having been said, it is a well known fact that Vectran/Dyneema blends are slightly slower than the 100% Dyneema, Spectra (HMPE) materials. Note that I said slightly. The down side of the non-blended materials has always been creep, especially in the heat and/or with long DL's and/or high poundage bows. I'm hoping that the SK78 will be an improvement in this area, although with 27 3/4" DL and shooting 57# I shouldn't have much of an issue. Did I mention that BCY only uses the best materials (Dyneema, Spectra, etc.) and isn't afraid to label their products as such?

Now for the good news. I went down to my club this afternoon and shot a 14 target field round. Peep didn't move, marks stayed stable and I shot a 264. Would have been a better score but I had three 17's along the way... Still not bad for the first field round of the new year


----------



## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

Congrates glad you are happy with this product.Enjoy it and have fun, IMO it is a new product and time will tell how it stands up to the test of time..


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

omen said:


> Congrates glad you are happy with this product.Enjoy it and have fun, IMO it is a new product and time will tell how it stands up to the test of time..


I totally agree... I have some concerns with how well it will hold up in the summer heat, but knowing that it is made from the best Dyneema produced (SK78) gives me good reason to be somewhat confident... and I still have several spools of Trophy on hand.


----------



## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

EPLC said:


> I totally agree... I have some concerns with how well it will hold up in the summer heat, but knowing that it is made from the best Dyneema produced (SK78) gives me good reason to be somewhat confident... and I still have several spools of Trophy on hand.


Well we know for a fact that,the Astro has proven itself many times over. We have strings in many hot and humid countries without any issue's what so ever.Just keep in mind that you have always said that for a string to be stable it needed to be a blended product.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

omen said:


> Well we know for a fact that,the Astro has proven itself many times over. We have strings in many hot and humid countries without any issue's what so ever.Just keep in mind that you have always said that for a string to be stable it needed to be a blended product.


Yes, and I haven't changed my mind on that. HMPE has a low melting point and that is the problem... There are several levels of quality offered in the HMPE line and the creep resistence is better with the higher end products. SK78 Dyneema is reported to be the best available in that line.


----------



## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

EPLC said:


> Yes, and I haven't changed my mind on that. HMPE has a low melting point and that is the problem... There are several levels of quality offered in the HMPE line and the creep resistence is better with the higher end products. SK78 Dyneema is reported to be the best available in that line.


Please correct me if I'am wrong!!!Did you or did you not say HMPE will creep in a bow string if not mixed vectran?I do believe reading this a time or two in your past post.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

omen said:


> Please correct me if I'am wrong!!!Did you or did you not say HMPE will creep in a bow string if not mixed vectran?I do believe reading this a time or two in your past post.


So what are you trying to get me to say? My opinion hasn't changed and nothing I have said here is contradictory to what I have said in the past. Didn't I already agree with you that HMPE materials have creep issues. Didn't I title this thread "First Impression"? Hey, I didn't even challenge your Astro "facts"... Yet you keep pointing out that I said Vectran blends have less creep than non-blended materials. Yes, I said that, and that is a fact. 

Now, I'm "hoping" that the SK78 Dyneema, since it's the best available in a non-blended material, will have an acceptable rate of creep. Like you said, time will tell. Same with the also limited sampling of Astro that is out there.


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

omen said:


> Well we know for a fact that,the Astro has proven itself many times over. .


its only been not even 4/5 months that astro is out there in masses being used, its not proven itself yet till its been used for a year or so and then you can state that, proof takes time.

The string set on my bow right now is actually half n half Astro/D10 YEP half of each string material, i did this to see exactly side by side what each does, it hasnt been on long but we will see, so far the astro is not holding up as well as i woulda thought will all the hype around it, its showing slight fraying and i wax my string each time i shoot, and it was burnished only once when being built, im getting ready to swap it out to be honest, but ill give it a little longer so i can see what the cables do as i had the string on for about 3/400 shots before i put the cables on.


----------



## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

EPLC said:


> So what are you trying to get me to say? My opinion hasn't changed and nothing I have said here is contradictory to what I have said in the past. Didn't I already agree with you that HMPE materials have creep issues. Didn't I title this thread "First Impression"? Hey, I didn't even challenge your Astro "facts"... Yet you keep pointing out that I said Vectran blends have less creep than non-blended materials. Yes, I said that, and that is a fact.
> 
> Now, I'm "hoping" that the SK78 Dyneema, since it's the best available in a non-blended material, will have an acceptable rate of creep. Like you said, time will tell. Same with the also limited sampling of Astro that is out there.


In post my post #10 I asked if you ever said HMPE creeps.( I never said it did) so please do not include me in that statement.


----------



## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

As stated in the above post..I asked if you ever said HMPE creeps.I never said it did so please do not include me in that statement.I'am not trying to get you to say anything.Just find it interesting that you are shooting a non blend product.In the past you made it very clear that a string needed to vectran in it so it hold up.I'am glad that you are liking it so far,just keep us posted on this product just like many have done and are still doing with astro.And thanks for posting your speed increase.Thanks


----------



## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

dwagoner said:


> its only been not even 4/5 months that astro is out there in masses being used, its not proven itself yet till its been used for a year or so and then you can state that, proof takes time.
> 
> The string set on my bow right now is actually half n half Astro/D10 YEP half of each string material, i did this to see exactly side by side what each does, it hasnt been on long but we will see, so far the astro is not holding up as well as i woulda thought will all the hype around it, its showing slight fraying and i wax my string each time i shoot, and it was burnished only once when being built, im getting ready to swap it out to be honest, but ill give it a little longer so i can see what the cables do as i had the string on for about 3/400 shots before i put the cables on.


Yes you are correct past 4,5 months many builders starting using this product.We have been using this product since it was released and we have many strings in the field.So in our eye's it has proven it's self.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

omen said:


> Yes you are correct past 4,5 months many builders starting using this product.We have been using this product since it was released and we have many strings in the field.So in our eye's it has proven it's self.


Many? When you say "many", you really should be saying "mini". When I think "many" I think 452X, 8125, Fastflight, D75 and perhaps Xcel. As of right now, no bow companies are using Astro and there are only a handful of Mom & Pop string makers promoting this material. The claims you are making are not "facts", they are "opinion", your opinion. As far as creep, I also notice that the string makers selling Astro on AT are now using 18-20 strands of the material. Could this be an indication that the material isn't holding up at 16 strands, which I'm sure you know is the Brownell recommended number? While I'm sure 18-20 strands of Astro would hold up a bridge, I'm not sure that the diameter that would result would be what I'm looking for... and with the extra strands, there goes your speed claims. BTW, I'm using 16 strands of Dynaflight 10. If it holds up, great, if it does not I'll go back to the blended materials that will. Either way, I'll post my findings.

Also, BCY does not claim that their non-blended materials have as good of a resistence to creep as their blended materials, in fact they are quite honest about this "fact"...

Want some honest answers without the hype? Read this -> http://www.bcyfibers.com/FAQs.php


----------



## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

EPLC said:


> Many? When you say "many", you really should be saying "mini". When I think "many" I think 452X, 8125, Fastflight, D75 and perhaps Xcel. As of right now, no bow companies are using Astro and there are only a handful of Mom & Pop string makers promoting this material. The claims you are making are not "facts", they are "opinion", your opinion. As far as creep, I also notice that the string makers selling Astro on AT are now using 18-20 strands of the material. Could this be an indication that the material isn't holding up at 16 strands, which I'm sure you know is the Brownell recommended number? While I'm sure 18-20 strands of Astro would hold up a bridge, I'm not sure that the diameter that would result would be what I'm looking for... and with the extra strands, there goes your speed claims. BTW, I'm using 16 strands of Dynaflight 10. If it holds up, great, if it does not I'll go back to the blended materials that will. Either way, I'll post my findings.
> 
> Also, BCY does not claim that their non-blended materials have as good of a resistence to creep as their blended materials, in fact they are quite honest about this "fact"...
> 
> Want some honest answers without the hype? Read this -> http://www.bcyfibers.com/FAQs.php


Here is where you are wrong.....http://limbsaver.com/ look here before you say no manufactures are using astro


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

omen said:


> Here is where you are wrong.....http://limbsaver.com/ look here before you say no manufactures are using astro


I stand corrected, there is no "major" bow company using Astro Flight. And congratulations on your marketing success. I notice they are not mentioning the material, just the JBK supplier, so what material have they actually ordered?


----------



## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

Here's a FACT. Since November we've put out just over 1100 sets of strings built with astro. There's only been one customer complaint that the material moved. FWIW in the same time period we've did 900+ sets of 452x and trophy with no complaints of movement. In the last 16 months we've only had 2 'stretch' complaints with these materials as well. We build the astro with 18 string and 18/20 in the cables. I prefer 18 on the string for best nock fit. Witht 16 I have to use .025 serving and I hate the large serving. With 452x we use 20-22 on the string and 24 on the cables. Both of these materials are being shot all over the world in all climates and weather conditions. I feel creep is a non issue with any of these materials when built correctly. I currently have all 3 of these materials and even 8125 on my personal bows at this time.


----------



## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

EPLC said:


> I stand corrected, there is no "major" bow company using Astro Flight. And congratulations on your marketing success. I notice they are not mentioning the material, just the JBK supplier, so what material have they actually ordered?


They are using ASTRO FLIGHT call them and ask for yourself.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

60X said:


> Here's a FACT. Since November we've put out just over 1100 sets of strings built with astro. There's only been one customer complaint that the material moved. FWIW in the same time period we've did 900+ sets of 452x and trophy with no complaints of movement. In the last 16 months we've only had 2 'stretch' complaints with these materials as well. We build the astro with 18 string and 18/20 in the cables. I prefer 18 on the string for best nock fit. Witht 16 I have to use .025 serving and I hate the large serving. With 452x we use 20-22 on the string and 24 on the cables. Both of these materials are being shot all over the world in all climates and weather conditions. I feel creep is a non issue with any of these materials when built correctly. I currently have all 3 of these materials and even 8125 on my personal bows at this time.


While 1100 sets is a substancial number for a small company (congrats, BTW) its still a very small number in the grand scheme of things. I assume "Since November" is in the winter for most of your customer base?


----------



## CardiacKid74 (Jan 18, 2005)

Winchester is using astro, working on a few other bow manufacturers currently. 

Hoyt uses Brownell materials exclusively. Brownell makes Vapor Trail VTX.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

CardiacKid74 said:


> Winchester is using astro, working on a few other bow manufacturers currently.
> 
> Hoyt uses Brownell materials exclusively. Brownell makes Vapor Trail VTX.


Is Hoyt using Astro flight?


----------



## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

can you throw up a pic of the strings you jsut made...Nice to know that we have another option for material out there


----------



## Christopher67 (Nov 13, 2009)

CardiacKid74 said:


> Winchester is using astro, working on a few other bow manufacturers currently.
> 
> Hoyt uses Brownell materials exclusively. Brownell makes Vapor Trail VTX.



Wow, did not know this, very interesting.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ex-wolverine said:


> can you throw up a pic of the strings you jsut made...Nice to know that we have another option for material out there


Will do, it's raining here today but I'll snap a few as soon as the sun comes out. I'll try a few flash pics and see how they look, flash never seems to do right by anything.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

*SK 78 Pictures*

Here ya go... although I hate flash pictures. Note that I have not changed the cable as yet.


----------



## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

I see one thing wrong, its a Mathews!...Just Kidding...I have my son take the pics with his fancy camera I dont know how to turn on...Anyway, I have a spool of Black and Tan headed your way to try out



EPLC said:


> Here ya go... although I hate flash pictures. Note that I have not changed the cable as yet.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ex-wolverine said:


> I see one thing wrong, its a Mathews!...Just Kidding...I have my son take the pics with his fancy camera I dont know how to turn on...Anyway, I have a spool of Black and Tan headed your way to try out


Well, thank you a bunch...


----------



## CardiacKid74 (Jan 18, 2005)

EPLC said:


> Is Hoyt using Astro flight?


No they use brownell materials.


----------



## CardiacKid74 (Jan 18, 2005)

Christopher67 said:


> Wow, did not know this, very interesting.


What didnt you know?


----------



## Christopher67 (Nov 13, 2009)

CardiacKid74 said:


> What didnt you know?


Hoyt using Brownell materials.


----------



## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

I think Hoyt has been using brownell for a good while now.


----------



## Christopher67 (Nov 13, 2009)

60X said:


> I think Hoyt has been using brownell for a good while now.



So IF i bought a Hoyt Carbon Element is would have Brownell strings on it ? :dontknow:


----------



## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

Christopher67 said:


> So IF i bought a Hoyt Carbon Element is would have Brownell strings on it ? :dontknow:


It would have a string manufactured by Fuse with Brownell materials.


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

I understand with archery theres so much preferance on what people like and dont like, why has this astro/bcy turned into such a heated discussion??? Every thread gets a bit heated, its actually quite excessive to me! Im a little guy in the building world, but i have tried alot of materials now with both companies, atleast the top choices in string material so far, the whole PUSH thats been behind astro since its start on here has gotten a bit out of control, i think we all gotta ease up a little on it all to be honest


----------



## shermo (Oct 7, 2003)

EPLC said:


> I recieved 3 spools of Dynaflight 10 yesterday afternoon and slapped together a string for my Triumph. The material was very easy to work with and the wax content seemed very consistent on the 3 spools I have. Material diameters on all 3 spools look and feel the same. After installation I'm seeing no peep rotation at all. Speed seems to be very good as well. With a 27 3/4 AMO DL (measured properly) I'm getting 261fps @ 57 pounds with a 361 grain Navigator and 291fps with a 285 grain PSE 100. This is about 6fps faster than the Trophy I had on the bow.
> 
> The colors I have are Blue, Black and Mountain Berry and all are quite vivid. The string is Mountain Berry/Black.
> 
> So far, I'm very impressed.


How do you find it to wrap the tag ends with? Out of the materials I have used so far, I find 452x and Trophy to give the neatest loop. I have made a couple of strings with Astro and they turned out just fine, I just didn't think the loops look as nice as with the 452x. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming D10 is around the same diameter as Astro.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

shermo said:


> How do you find it to wrap the tag ends with? Out of the materials I have used so far, I find 452x and Trophy to give the neatest loop. I have made a couple of strings with Astro and they turned out just fine, I just didn't think the loops look as nice as with the 452x. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming D10 is around the same diameter as Astro.


Only have made one set so far and the tag ends came out fine, although a slightly thicker look because the diameter is the same as Astro, D97 and Dynaflight 97, etc. I used 16 strands on the string. Haven't made a cable yet but will probably stick with Trophy for cables.


----------



## Christopher67 (Nov 13, 2009)

SteveID said:


> It would have a string manufactured by Fuse with Brownell materials.


I see.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

So, after all the claims of mass distribution, no major bow company is using Astro Flight... including Hoyt. 

So... since you guys have hijacked my thread and turned it into a Astro Flight thread... and seem to have all the answers, answer this question: Why has Brownell removed the Dyneema and Spectra (TM) identification from virtually all of their product line? And... if they are no longer using Dyneema and Spectra, what is this "HMPE" that they are using? This is an honest question and it deserves an honest answer.

Dyneema is a registered trademark of DSM
Spectra is a registered trademark of Honeywell


----------



## CardiacKid74 (Jan 18, 2005)

EPLC said:


> So, after all the claims of mass distribution, no major bow company is using Astro Flight... including Hoyt.
> 
> So... since you guys have hijacked my thread and turned it into a Astro Flight thread... and seem to have all the answers, answer this question: Why has Brownell removed the Dyneema and Spectra (TM) identification from virtually all of their product line? And... if they are no longer using Dyneema and Spectra, what is this "HMPE" that they are using? This is an honest question and it deserves an honest answer.
> 
> ...


Brownell does use both Spectra and Dyneema. Brownell stopped using their trademarks 3 years ago and decided to use the genric term for Dyneema and Spectra 100% HMPE (high modulus polyethylene).


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

shermo said:


> How do you find it to wrap the tag ends with? Out of the materials I have used so far, I find 452x and Trophy to give the neatest loop. I have made a couple of strings with Astro and they turned out just fine, I just didn't think the loops look as nice as with the 452x. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming D10 is around the same diameter as Astro.


ive built strings with all these materials and end loops come out fine for me, i think it you just take time you can make them all as neat as the next.


----------



## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

I think the 452x and trophy makes nicer end loops when doing tag ends. The astro is a larger diameter and I think that's the difference. With the astro I'll get little gaps sometimes.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

60X said:


> I think the 452x and trophy makes nicer end loops when doing tag ends. The astro is a larger diameter and I think that's the difference. With the astro I'll get little gaps sometimes.


You may be right about the diameter but I'm not seeing any gaps with the Dynaflight 10... Of course this is only one string so I can't be sure. Wait... I have another that I tossed after doing the tag end loops (experiment went bad with an s-hook and to much tension, but that's another story)... BRB

Yes, there are a few very small gaps on the disgarded string... Could be the diameter but the mishap could have played a roll.

I do hope this material holds up cuz I like what I'm seeing so far. I'm guessing 200-300 shots so far and everything is rock solid... Of course the weather hasn't been warm enough yet to really find out... My hope is that the best SK78 Dyneema, pre-stretched like crazy will have acceptable creep. I will stick with the Trophy for my cables though... hey, I know that won't move.


----------



## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

You are right 452X does make a nice tight end loop, but I have a process that I use for ASTRO that looks just as good, check out my strings album in profile and see the loops there... on the first page , the red loops on the post and the blue and pink strings...No gaps and they are tight and small...


Didnt mean to hijack but the same process would work on the D-10 I bet

EPLC Good to see the D-10 working out...This is the only real test I have seen...Keep us posted, no pun intended...



60X said:


> I think the 452x and trophy makes nicer end loops when doing tag ends. The astro is a larger diameter and I think that's the difference. With the astro I'll get little gaps sometimes.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ex-wolverine said:


> You are right 452X does make a nice tight end loop, but I have a process that I use for ASTRO that looks just as good, check out my strings album in profile and see the loops there... on the first page , the red loops on the post and the blue and pink strings...No gaps and they are tight and small...
> 
> 
> Didnt mean to hijack but the same process would work on the D-10 I bet
> ...


Good to know, and your tag ends do look very good. Since the Dynaflight 10 is the same diameter as Astro would you be willing to share your process?


----------

