# Guidos Web w/treesaddle hookup ROCKS!



## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Got my Guidos Web about a month ago. Compared to my Treesaddle it was waaaaay more comfortable BUT waaaaay more restrictive when trying too turn/twist for a shot with the stock tether strap. As a bowhunter i have to sayI was a little disappointed at first. So i thought why not take the SAS strap (linemans belt) from my Trophyline treesaddle and connect it to make a bridge like the treesaddle already has and connect either the Trophyline strap that ties around the tree or a rope style tree strap with a prussic knot with my BD Rocklock carabiner which lets the webbing easily slide through like butter. Wella! Now I have the best of both worlds.......Treesaddle mobility with the comfort of the Web! Absolutely amazing!


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## ozzz (Jul 30, 2010)

I will have to take a look at this concept. How much does a web sell for?


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## lavazhole (Jul 30, 2005)

pics please


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## pxt (Oct 27, 2009)

Thats what i did as well, but with climbing rope instead "better less the thick strap" its the best treestand system ever. Versatility like the saddle, but comfort is unbeatable.


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## cunninghamww (Jun 8, 2011)

I would really like to see pics of any adjustments that have been made for web hunters...it is an issue that I am trying to figure out myself...


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## Punch_Free4L (Mar 25, 2007)

lavazhole said:


> pics please


this ^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

The web sells for $295. This price includes shipping. It's a usa hand made product. You can literally see the quality. Ill see if I can get out tommorrow and take some pics to show you what Im talking about. A little backround....over the last 5 years Lone Wolf rose to the top of the heap. Had over 2k invested in Alphas/Sticks. Sold most of them after using the Treesaddle/Web. Had to get a system that worked for me no matter what.....Im a bowhunter so most important criteria was: SAFETY,DEAD QUIET,MANUEVERABILITY,and LIGHTWEIGHT. I pair the Treesaddle/or Web (depending on what I use) with a LW assasin platform and climbpaws w/ Top Paws on the backside to get all the way around the tree. I hate metal to metal contact in the woods and this system has all but eliminated it completely.


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## ozzz (Jul 30, 2010)

lavazhole said:


> pics please


yep


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

I tried this, but I got some hip pressure because the web straps were pulled to the center. I really want to see pics. I drop the shoulder straps off of my web when I get to hunting position. That helps with shooting flexibility, but still nowhere near as good as the Saddle. 
Put up those pics!!


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Hopefully Ill get some pics up in the am. The Web tether straps are sown in at around 18". The cool thing about using the Trophyline SAS is you can adjust the bridge. Ive got it set at around 21" (42" end to end) The way I do it is set my rope as high as I can comfortably reach/push my prussic to the top, which tightens my bridge and sit down. It works perfect every time without fumbling in the dark. It actually puts less pressure on your hips than the stock web tether! The nice added bonus too is this gives you the max amount of strap to 360 around the tree. Not to fond of the web tether sliding around the bark of the tree to change positions either. Maybe at 100yds away, but at 20 degrees, no wind, 10 yrds not a chance!


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## j250trx (Sep 4, 2006)

Have to see this!


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## jknudsen (Jun 15, 2010)

ozzz said:


> yep


what he just said!!


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## cunninghamww (Jun 8, 2011)

Keeping the pressure on you ...want pics!


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## phantom1 (Dec 14, 2004)

ttt, you have our attention!!!!


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

Did you get your Guidos with the bowhunter strap ? The bowhunter strap is narrower at the top, and then if you cross the straps
with the carabiners that attch to the web it gives you alot more room to shoot with a bow.


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## bbrilmyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Me too. I've been using the saddle for a couple years now but the comfort does leave something to be desired. I'd gladly spend the money to make this system perfect.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

ttt WE WANT PICTURES I hunt out of a tree saddle or guidos web 99% of the time and that sounds like a great idea I just want to see how you do it.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Want those pics!!
I use the bowhunter's strap with the straps crossed with my Web and the rope/prussic/carabiner with my Saddle. Even with the straps crossed, the shooting flexibility is not close to as good as the saddle. Some of that has to do with the back rest on the web, though.


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## cunninghamww (Jun 8, 2011)

ttt. need pics NOW.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*PICS of my version*

Okay, don't want to hijack my man's thread, but I think I got the setup from his description. I used a piece of 2" webbing from a Summit harness that I wasn't using to make the 'bridge'. I like it. I like it alot. The single pivot point of the carabiner does bring back the saddle type of shooting flexibility without sacrificing the comfort of the web.

Here ya go!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

I forgot to add that the length of the 'bridge' strap is 28" on my setup. Seemed about right.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Heres the pictures I promised! Hope ya like em! Great job mtsrunner!


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## bbrilmyer (Jan 16, 2009)

O man. Looks like ill be buying one this summer.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## bbrilmyer (Jan 16, 2009)

How does wearing it in compare to the saddle setup?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

All I can say is the COMFORT level is prretty darn amazing! Butch (designer of the Web) took this into consideration big time when he made it. He realized you had to be as still as possible up there if you wanted to be successful until your ready for a shot. I'd heard this before about the web, but until I tried it I didn't believe it. Love my saddle but unless it's going to be a quickie, I'll take the WEB every time. Most comfortable stand I have ever owned....no lie!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

great job, Blue Hunter. 
As far as the comfort question, the Web is way more comfortable than the Saddle. It is more comfortable than ANY hang-on type stand I have ever used (including Ol' Man Roost, which has the net seat, arm rests and foot rest). It is ALMOST as comfortable as my Summit 180 with footrest, really close second place, but at less than half the weight.


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

The way the web packs up on your back, is there a way or does it seem like it could be modified with extra straps to attach sticks to it? Would it even support the weight of sticks without trying to pull apart and flopping around on your back?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

sb220 said:


> The way the web packs up on your back, is there a way or does it seem like it could be modified with extra straps to attach sticks to it? Would it even support the weight of sticks without trying to pull apart and flopping around on your back?


I will try putting my 4 LW sticks down in my Web after church today. I would imagine that they will hold just fine. I still think I would rather carry them using the LW carry strap, which is what I currently do. The carry strap keeps the sticks secure and silent, and I use them to clear spider webs out of my way as I walk in.


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

Yeah Ive got a rope sling and bungees that basically perform the same way as the carry strap....better in my opinion as taking off one "cinch" bungee only releases one stick. 

Still though I prefer having everything but my weapon secure on my back or waist. Never know.....Your noonish walk from/to the stand could turn into a successful hunt. Ive had the opportunity before and wasnt ready.


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## bbrilmyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Staying still while in the saddle has been my biggest gripe. I don't care what kinda of knee pads you buy or how big your tree is, but there is no way to stay completely still when your supporting yourself against a tree. 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

are you guys just using pegs to put your feet on, i have a few farms that are all hedge rows and these would work awesome in those funky trees. how long does it take to get the hang of using it?


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## bbrilmyer (Jan 16, 2009)

dtrkyman said:


> are you guys just using pegs to put your feet on, i have a few farms that are all hedge rows and these would work awesome in those funky trees. how long does it take to get the hang of using it?



Yea. Pegs or platforms. I have a lone wolf assassin platform that I love. A lot of guys use strap on steps. 

You get the hang of it pretty quick, but to be truly effective and quiet with it took me a season of hunting from it (spoken from the saddle point of view.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

bbrilmyer said:


> Staying still while in the saddle has been my biggest gripe. I don't care what kinda of knee pads you buy or how big your tree is, but there is no way to stay completely still when your supporting yourself against a tree.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


I probably move and shift about 90% less in Guidos Web than I do in the Tree Saddle. I probably stand up on my pegs and stretch my legs about once every hour to hour and a half with the web. I probably shift every 5-10 minutes in some way while in the saddle. However, I seem to never get busted in the saddle, so I don't really think of it as a negative. The overall comfort/weight/safety/shooting flexibility of the Web is tough to beat.


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

Great thread. I have been looking for some feedback on the Web. Adding this to my "list" for next year.


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## phantom1 (Dec 14, 2004)

What is weight of the Web versus the Saddle? Also, since you are using a rope around the tree, instead of the Saddle strap wrapped twice, how do you keep the rope from slipping down the tree when you are not putting weight on the rope. I am not seeing a treestep screwed in below the rope around the tree, although I've heard of guys doing that, rather than double wrapping.

Thanks! The Web definitely looks comfortable with a padded looking seat and backrest. Are there any popular stores that carry the Web for us to have a look at them? Sorry so many questions, but as I said, you have our interest!!!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

phantom1 said:


> What is weight of the Web versus the Saddle? Also, since you are using a rope around the tree, instead of the Saddle strap wrapped twice, how do you keep the rope from slipping down the tree when you are not putting weight on the rope. I am not seeing a treestep screwed in below the rope around the tree, although I've heard of guys doing that, rather than double wrapping.
> 
> Thanks! The Web definitely looks comfortable with a padded looking seat and backrest. Are there any popular stores that carry the Web for us to have a look at them? Sorry so many questions, but as I said, you have our interest!!!


To keep the rope from sliding down, you can run the prussic knot right up against the looped end of your mainline rope. That will provide enough friction to keep it in place. 

As far as weight, it will depend on what size you order. I have a Large-Tall and it weighs 10# without the tree tether strap. Most of the weight is from the Heavily padded seat. It is amazingly comfortable, though. 
I doubt you will find one to try, as Butch (the owner) sews them up one at a time as they are ordered. The quality of work is awesome. I just wish he would make a lightweight version. For hot weather, I will grab my Tree Saddle and sacrifice some comfort.


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## phantom1 (Dec 14, 2004)

mts, thanks for the quick answers! The Web is several pounds heavier then, however, still quite a bit lighter than say a comfortable climber. It would be interesting to see him come up with a mesh Web as compared the Ambush Saddle. It would be cooler in warm temps and lighter to pack in.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

The web is super comfortable. I will use your idea for making a "bridge". That makes sense for increasing your mobility in the tree which is the main disadvantage of the web over the tree saddle. I have hunted almost exclusively out of a tree saddle for the past 5 years or so, but I now have a web and I have to say it is waaaaaay more comfortable than the saddle which means I now spend more time in it than I do my tree saddle. 

I will still keep the saddle in my arsenal for a couple of reasons. It is cooler for those early season hunts. Our season begins in August here when it still pushing 100 degrees outside. Also it is more mobile so I will continue to use it during the times when I am hanging and hunting. 

On another note to answer one of your questions the Web will carry 4 lone wolf steps in the back as you walk in. This is the method I use and it works great. The only problem with it is it will hang on the brush if you walk down a narrow trail.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Thanks mtsrunner! Here's another little trick that might help you guys out. Worked out great for me. I took an old linesmans belt stap I had laying around (same width as the Web belts) and cut it to make about a 2' piece. Take the 2 extra (spare) male plastic buckle ends that Butch includes with the web (or call him for a couple). Thread one on each of the 2' strap. Now here's the trick....attach the male ends into the female ends of the leg buckle straps around your waist and tighten. When packed up on your back you have just made a very effective waist belt strap that works awesome to carry ALOT more weight comfortably! I personally carry my LW Assasin platform + in the Web on my back. Trust me it makes a HUGE difference when walking a ways.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Also in reference to the rope/strap sliding down Ive learned a couple things.....Treesaddle first: if your using the Trophyline strap wrapped twice around the tree when you tie the knot pass completely through BOTH wraps against the tree. The videos tells you to only pass through the last wrap. This makes a world of difference. I always had my knot slide down until I learned to go under both loops. It will NOT slide down. Now to the Rope/prussic....when you put the rope around the tree and thread the end through the loop do it TWICE. this will make a cinch that holds solid when weight is let off but is easily loosened when adjusting you height.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

Great advice blue hunter. Could you show us some pictures of that as well. I just commented to one of my hunting buddies that I wish it had a waist belt for those long hikes in carrying my climbing sticks.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

nice tip on the waist belt. I will try that one, too.


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

Well I want to try this out. If nothing else it could be my late season gun setup if I end up preferring my saddle for the bow.

Anyways what's the general wait time after you've placed an order?

Also watching his videos on YouTube the Velcro on a couple of the straps made me cringe a little. I hate Velcro in the woods.
You guys able to take that stuff off and use a quiet clip to unpack/pack those straps?


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## cunninghamww (Jun 8, 2011)

Yeah no velcro on his newer models...and the turnaround is pretty good considering they are semi-made to order. I think mine took 2-3ish weeks to get in?


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## phantom1 (Dec 14, 2004)

Good information here guys. Thank you!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

I specifically asked for no velcro when I ordered mine. I just clip the two carabiners together around the back and the belts will stay tucked in to the back while transporting.

I tried the waist belt trick. AWESOME!!!! Now I can hardly tell that the Web is on my back. Best modification I have ever done to a piece of equipment. This also allows you to remove the male ends of the quick buckles that are on the shoulder straps.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

ttt


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Mtsrunner thats good to hear it worked for you! I did the same as you removing the male ends of the quick release buckles on the shoulder straps and used them to make my belt. Here are a couple of pictures of my waist belt ahawk19. I also included a couple pictures of how I cover my metal buckles(5 in all) with 3x4" elastic straps from Mountaineer Sports. Sounded like jingle bells before I did this and they keep the Web in place so I don't have to adjust the buckles every time I put it on.


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## pxt (Oct 27, 2009)

I did my bridge with climbing rope with 2 carabiners. Its nice , when u connect main rope and u want to shift to the side, the whole stand tillts for a shot. Somebody needs to make a video.


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## pxt (Oct 27, 2009)

I bought molle pouches all different sizes and attach to bottom of seat for xtra storage.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

Great I'll put that to use for sure. The elastic is a great idea 2. Thanks for sharing.


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## jlavoie (Oct 19, 2009)

Blue Hunter cannot seem to locate mountaineer sports that sell elastic strap you mentioned.


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

jlavoie said:


> Blue Hunter cannot seem to locate mountaineer sports that sell elastic strap you mentioned.


Are they something you would have to slide off and on all the time? If not you could cut up a bicycle inner tube into squares and make the same thing with rubber. Just harder to slide off and on.


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## coldskins (Nov 9, 2011)

I am kind lost i have been wanting to get a trophy line tree saddle but i guess from what i have read they are out of buisness or something so michigan sportsman forum turned me on to this guidos web and i am releived and excited to find this and well mi sportsman turned me on to this thread also i plan to order a web for next seoson and i want to to these upgrades that you guess talk about so i can shoot 360 like the saddle quietly but i am not sure 1. where to get the stuff to do these upgrades. 2. what i need. 3.how to do the nots in the rope ore how to make that part of this refined system. as i am not a tree climber i dont understand what a bridge is and what not so if some one could help me out in these areas as kind of a guidos tree web upgrade for dummies type of way maybe i could catch on thanks


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Mountaineer Sports is who makes the excellent Rescue One CDS safety harness. If you hunt out of a ladder, hang on, or climber I suggest you look into this one as it is the ONLY resuseable safety harness that can get you safely to the ground in the event of a fall I know of. (I have one) Now onto the WEB....the elastic buckle covers that come on the Rescue One harness fit the WEB buckles perfectly. Once you slide them on you don't have to remove them. The buckles still function, but are tight enough they don't go out of adjustment once set to your size. You can purchase these I believe if you give Norm (owner) a call. Remember, the WEB and Treesaddle are both awesome pieces of equipment just as they come from the factory. These are just some customizing things that we have done that have made them work better for us.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

I forgot to show how I carry my gear within easy reach wearing my WEB. When I wear my Treesaddle I have all my stuff in pouches attatched to the saddle. With the WEB I took a different approach. This is a Fanny pack (fleece model) from Day One camo that I use. Its around $49.00 and the webbing goes all the way through the pack. For me it's the right size and I wear it reversed to the front. I Really like how quiet and soft it is. When nothing is in it it compresses down to almost nothing. Good luck and have a safe season!


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

I dig it. I have started using an old black jansport fanny pack I found in my parents attic. A fanny pack almost seems like a must in a web because of it not having the straps on the side like my tree saddle does to attach all sorts of packs 2.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter, we must be brothers-from-another-mother. I also use elastic to keep my buckles in place. I used the elastic keepers that were on the suspenders of my Tree Saddle (cut off the suspenders on mine). 
I also love my Day One gear. Although, I haven't ordered anything from them in about 15 years, I still find myself grabbing my ASAT fleece pullover more than any other piece of hunting clothing. 
I think I will try the fanny pack worn backwards. I can't twist around enough to get stuff out of the backpack on the web once I am airborn! 
Keep the tips coming, you have got this stuff down!


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## quick kill (May 18, 2009)

Hunted from my web this morning for the first time and it's very comfortable. It's far superior to the tree saddle. I hunted exclusively from the saddle last season and it is not for a larger or heavier person. I don't think there is any more restrictions with Guido's if you cross the straps. Btw, I spoke to Butch a couple of weeks ago and there is no such "bowhunting strap". I think there is one and only one style of tether belt. Nevertheless, this is a fine product that requires practice. And, it's not for everyone. However, it's very safe and extremely comfortable.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

quick kill said:


> Hunted from my web this morning for the first time and it's very comfortable. It's far superior to the tree saddle. I hunted exclusively from the saddle last season and it is not for a larger or heavier person. I don't think there is any more restrictions with Guido's if you cross the straps. Btw, I spoke to Butch a couple of weeks ago and there is no such "bowhunting strap". I think there is one and only one style of tether belt. Nevertheless, this is a fine product that requires practice. And, it's not for everyone. However, it's very safe and extremely comfortable.


Butch makes two configurations of the tree tether. One is better for bowhunting, one is better for gun hunting. They are designed the same, but the differ in how close together the two 'drop belts' are. If you have the 'bow' tether, the two drop straps are only about 2 or three inches apart. If you have the gun tether, the two drop belts are separated by about 5 or 6 inches. The result with the 'gun' tether is that it 'opens up' the web and puts absolutely no pressure on the hips. The downside to this is that you lose a good bit of mobility/shooting range. I have both straps, but never use the gun tether, even when gun hunting.


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

You fellas making your rope/prussic hook-ups to replace the straps on these sling stands. Does it matter if you use static rope versus dynamic?


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

I wouldn't think it would matter sb. I would just use whatever I had laying around.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mts, ASAT is my favorite too.... there is definitely something to it that works! Regarding the rope/prussic you can make your own, but the best and easiest I've found is the Linemans belt from Mountaineer Sports. Norm doesn't use the cheap stuff like some of the others. For $25 bucks you can't beat the quality of the rope. Combine it with a Black Diamond Rocklock belay biner at 24kn (for under $10 bucks) you got yourself a safe, quiet, smooth gliding system.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

I make my own rope hook-up. I use BlueWater ropes 7/16" Assault Line climbing rope, BlueWater 8mm dynamic prussic and a Petzl Tactical Atache' pear shaped carabiner. I tie the mainline with figure 8 follow-through and the prussic with a double fisherman's knot. 

Hey BlueHunter, I think I might ask the folks at Day One if they would make that fanny pack with a water bottle-type pocket on each end, with duffel bag-type closures. That would be about perfect for facemask/glove/cell phone in one end and water bottle in the other. I have a Red Head one just like that, but it is cheap China made.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Hey mts, if its not to much trouble can you show pics of your rope set up and how you tie the mainline and prussic. Also, where do you get your rope? That Day One fanny pack sounds like the ticket!! Thanks


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Hey mts, if its not to much trouble can you show pics of your rope set up and how you tie the mainline and prussic. Also, where do you get your rope? That Day One fanny pack sounds like the ticket!! Thanks


Here is the link for the Assault Line from Black Jack Mountain Outfitters:
http://shop.blackjackmountainoutfitters.com/114-mm-7-16-AssaultLine-501760BK.htm
Got the prussic there, too.

animatedknots.com is the the best site that I have found for learning how to tie knots.

My rope and prussic pics(Just regular figure 8's on that rope, but I usually do the figure 8 follow-through, which is a little bulkier, but probably safer).


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

mts your in my neck of the woods. I work at Western Carolina. With that said where did you get your wood pecker drill? Not to hijack the thread but those things are AWESOME and I cant find one anywhere.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Thanks mts that is a sweet set up! I'll definitely use some of your ideas. I figured I'd show mine....I use a Blackhawk Elite dump pouch on my left leg for all my belts w/mod Treehopper linemans and a Blackhawk level 3 Serpa/10mm on my right. Why the gun?....I had a very dangerous situation happen to me while Bowhunting in the Midwest when i lived there.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

Nice setups guys. Mine is very similar I have the same saw case on mine, but I put a Stihl hand saw in their though which is pretty awesome. I like the Blackhawk case. I had an old North Face fanny pack laying around that I just strapped on to mine that works well. Thanks for all the photos hopefully this thread has been helpful for others.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

ahawk,
Here is the link for the drill. It came is an EZYKut from Buster. You might have to call him several times, though. 
http://www.woodyhunting.com/Drill.html
Yes, we are close. I live about 5 minutes from the Asheville airport. WCU is a beautiful campus. My 16 year old daughter is definitely interested in playing volleyball there. I hope she stays somewhere close enough that we will be able to watch her play some. 
Where do you hunt? I am on a club in Campobello, SC (42 miles from my door to the gate). My in-laws also have a little farm in Knoxville.


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## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

More pics!!!! 

Awesome thread. I dont have a detachable linemans belt for my saddle (i have the first gen)... What would you recommend to make the "bridge" ?? What do you think about this? http://www.lonewolfhuntingproducts.com/shopping/Products/Replacement-Belt-Extension__RBE.aspx

Or maybe the replacement strap with the buckle so you can adjust it? (can't find the link on lone wolf's page!)

Thanks!


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

Hi all - I live in Australia and use a guidos web. Some great pics and ideas in this thread. Just want to mention that I use rock climbing slings for suspending the seat and ascending/descending (eg girth hitch and step into the loop). I can ascend and descend just about any tree, to whatever height I choose and branches are no obstacle. I always carry multiple slings of various lengths. Weight and cost are pretty small and noise is minimal. 
I will incorporate the bridge idea as well. I have to stress that climbing is a piece of cake. Stand up, move harness point up, sit down in harness, move foot loop up, and then repeat. I also use a footloop once at height to allow me to stand/lean out for a shot.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

Solar could you share some pictures of that? Im assuming you throw a rope over a limb and then pull a larger rope over that limb with which you use the girth hitch to climb with? Im not a proficient rock climber, but I have seen that done and would probably be a nice setup for hunting some really large trees.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

Here is the setup I just made to try out this bridge idea. I used a couple of pieces of climbing rope I had laying around to make my main line. The first rope is the purple one with a larger diameter I tied a double figure 8 on one end to make my loop and I tied just a simple overhand knot on the other end to keep my prussic from ever slipping off. The second knot I used was a prussic knot I tied with 18 inches or so of this smaller green climbing rope. 

Next I took an old climbing belt I had laying around and threaded it through the prussic knot and put the two carabiners that came on the main line of the guidos web and put one on both ends. I also stole the rubber to off of it to cover up the carabiners to keep them from making noise. Here are the pictures. The only other alteration I made was I cut some of the slack off of the safety belt so I wouldn't have to carry so much webbing.


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

The first image is if a climbing sling. The cost about $15, are available in various lengths and colours from rock climbing shops. Typically they are rated to several thousand pounds. In this instance my sling is rated to 32 kn (kilo newton) roughly 3200kg = around 7000 lbs.














I simply make a girth hitch around the tree trunk, one sling for my guidos web and one sling to stand in (eg place your foot in the loop). I then alternate moving my harness up, by standing in the foot sling, and moving foot sling up by sitting in the harness/web. I can easily circumvent branches, and move to whichever height I want. For extra assurance if needed it is easy to attach a second sling to your harness. All in all, cheap, extremely lightweight, quiet, and in my view safe alternative to climbing sticks etc.









On this last image I have made a bridge out of a sling, although I plan to use a shorter sling.


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## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

solar41 said:


> The first image is if a climbing sling. The cost about $15, are available in various lengths and colours from rock climbing shops. Typically they are rated to several thousand pounds. In this instance my sling is rated to 32 kn (kilo newton) roughly 3200kg = around 7000 lbs.
> View attachment 1208119
> 
> View attachment 1208120
> ...


Very cool idea!!!


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

solar41 said:


> The first image is if a climbing sling. The cost about $15, are available in various lengths and colours from rock climbing shops. Typically they are rated to several thousand pounds. In this instance my sling is rated to 32 kn (kilo newton) roughly 3200kg = around 7000 lbs.
> View attachment 1208119
> 
> View attachment 1208120
> ...


This looks like a great idea. How hard is it to descend with this setup? What would be some good lengths on the straps to start with? 120cm, 80cm? I am guessing the bottom foot strap would be the longer one. Thanks.


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

For starters I would suggest buying two longer slings, maybe 240cm. You can always make a knot in a sling for a shorter foot loop or attachment point. Even if knots lower the breaking strength I figure these slings are so strong it does not matter. 

The ideal length of the slings depends a little on the circumference of the tree trunk. 

I usually ascend to about 5m / 17ft, this takes me about 5-10 minutes. The Guidos web makes it easy, as you essentially rest in sitting position each time you move the foot sling up. Descending is even easier I just make sure that the top sling does not overlap the foot sling when I move it down, as it then tightens on top of the sling I want to move. 

I have a 240cm and one 150cm and one 90cm sling from memory. I always carry a couple of spares in case I drop one. 
Check out the "daisy chain" sling in this thread http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1340803&page=1
It is a sling but with loops sewn into it. It look like it could be a good item for attaching the web to, as you can choose how high/low you want to hang.

Note that you can stand in the foot loop with both feet at once, which actually makes for a more stable position (feet apart you can feel that you "grip" the tree). 

Let me know how you go!


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

Wow that is brilliant. If I get by the local climbing store i'll see if they have any of those in stock.


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## My2Sons (Jan 5, 2007)

Is this climbing method strenuous? How about trying to get a video of this?


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

If I climb using my guidos web I dont break a sweat as long as I take it easy and dont rush. 

I have used the same method using a rock climbing harness, which was nowhere near as comfortable, and the knees would rub against the tree when seated. I used a hang on stand that time.

I have never used climbing sticks so it is hard to compare. This is the only climbing method I use when hunting. It took a couple of tries to get a hang of it.


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

(If no one else has by then) I will try and make a video on saturday and post it here.


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## wvboy (Sep 8, 2003)

What type of trees do you Web guys usually look for when setting up to hunt?


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

Any kind of tree that is about 8 inches in diameter or larger. Doesn't matter what species.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

ahawk19 nice pictures! Awesome job. The only difference in mine is once I go around the tree I thread the end through the loop once and THEN ONCE AGAIN MAKING TWO PASSES THROUGH THE LOOP. This make a cinch when pushed up agaist the tree that will hold even when no weight is applied and you can adjust the prussic up and down to wherever you want. I had a heck of a time keeping my rope from falling down until I learned this trick. Also, when making the prussic I always make sure I count 6 WRAPS of rope for safety. 

solar41, that sounds like a really interesting way of climbing with the WEB! I'm definitely looking forward to your video of how it works. The webbing you use looks really strong and is made for climbing. The link about the daisy chain is really informative too. thanks!


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## wvboy (Sep 8, 2003)

I've read tons of threads on tree saddles and the Guido Web, but am still having a hard time understanding the benefits of the this style of hunting. i have a Web courtesy of a friend who no longer hunts and i've practiced setup and shooting in my backyard. I've done plenty of rock climbing in my past and currently do tree work as a side job so i'm very comfortable monkeying around in trees and dangling from ropes. I want to add the Web to my bowhunting arsenal, but i'm not yet convinced of any benefits over my current setup using a hang-on and sticks. 

please post your "pros" for using a saddle or Web setup. 

thanks!


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## lnevett (Apr 9, 2006)

solar41 said:


> For starters I would suggest buying two longer slings, maybe 240cm. You can always make a knot in a sling for a shorter foot loop or attachment point. Even if knots lower the breaking strength I figure these slings are so strong it does not matter.
> 
> The ideal length of the slings depends a little on the circumference of the tree trunk.
> 
> ...


That really sounds like a great idea, I will definitely give a try...

Please go ahead with the video...


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

wvboy said:


> please post your "pros" for using a saddle or Web setup.


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1024581&highlight=treesaddle


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## cannonman (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm anxious to see this video!


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## wvboy (Sep 8, 2003)

thanks for the link One eye, but i've already read thru the entire 51 pages of posts. 

I'll be more specific with my question... Can some of you diehard saddle/Web hunters post your "pros" of using your type of setup over using a lightweight hang-on stand w/ climbing sticks.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

wvboy, I had the same questions as you. After the 2007 season I actually bought a Treesaddle, tried it, and sold it after an initial try. Then I spoke to John Eberhart and he explained to me I had the wrong size and it basically was the tool most responsible for all his success. He made sense and after the 2008 season I bought another to try again. This time was different and I ended up selling around 2k of LW gear on e bay! I put a link below where he describes some of the major benefits. His video series is awesome and is an instuctional on using the Treesaddle. You said you have the WEB which is basically the same concept but more comfortable. I bought the Treedsaddle first and still use it and love it along with the WEB. For me the biggest reason i sold most of my Lone Wolf hangons were the mobility factor. (360 around the tree shooting opportunity you get once you get the thing wired) I also really liked the fact that the thing was quiet being made completely of fabric with no way to sqeak in cold weather (I hate that!) and the fact you don't have to worry about falling off or out of it and can totally concentrate on getting into position to make the shot! 

http://deer-john.net/pages/treesaddle.html


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

How are you guys dressing in cold weather with these things? Not sure I am seeing myself using my Heater Body Suit with one.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

wvboy said:


> I've read tons of threads on tree saddles and the Guido Web, but am still having a hard time understanding the benefits of the this style of hunting. i have a Web courtesy of a friend who no longer hunts and i've practiced setup and shooting in my backyard. I've done plenty of rock climbing in my past and currently do tree work as a side job so i'm very comfortable monkeying around in trees and dangling from ropes. I want to add the Web to my bowhunting arsenal, but i'm not yet convinced of any benefits over my current setup using a hang-on and sticks.
> 
> please post your "pros" for using a saddle or Web setup.
> 
> thanks!


Some of the pros are it's quieter to carry and set up than any portable. There isn't any metal scraping against the brush.
It's more comfortable and safer than any portable. You don't have the weight of a safety harness because it's already
with you. The web doubles as a backpack so you can carry extra gear without the added weight of the pack. You have a
smaller profile in the tree that let's you hide easier, especially on smaller trees. 
The only disadvantage that I can see from my experience is that if you hunt thick areas where the deer can be on top of you fast 
is that if they show up on your weak side it can take alittle more movement to get into shooting position.
This is my experience after hunting all last season with a tree saddle and this year with the Web.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Hey highway, just curious from your experience using the Saddle last year and the Web this year what do you think comparing the two? Love hearing from experienced users that have both.


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

Blue Hunter said:


> Hey highway, just curious from your experience using the Saddle last year and the Web this year what do you think comparing the two? Love hearing from experienced users that have both.


Me too


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## HawgEnvy (Mar 2, 2011)

i'm just having a hard time visualizing the set up and climbing/decending with this system. it souds great,though. would love to see a video demo of the entire routine in depth.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Hey highway, just curious from your experience using the Saddle last year and the Web this year what do you think comparing the two? Love hearing from experienced users that have both.


I'll jump in here, if that's ok. I have used the TreeSaddle much more than the web, but I think I will be using the web more in the future. The only advantage that the Web has is comfort, but that is a HUGE advantage because the web is SO comfy. I had made up my mind that I was just going to use the web for gun hunting because it was limited in shooting mobility due to the tether strap. Now, I have to re-think this because of your 'bridge' to make the web more like the saddle. I might end up using the Web for most of my bow hunting, too. I think if the temperature is over 60 degrees, I will probably stick with the saddle. The Web can get hot.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Thanks for your reply mts, I appreciate your input as I know you've got lots of time in em both. I was thinking the same thing. If one of my sons (13,14,17 yrs old) goes with me I think ill put him in the WEB with the bow tether. Hook him up at the base of the tree and let him climb. When he gets to the top all he has to do is tighten the strap. Connected all the way up and down. Should be comfortable enough to stay a while with me too! I don't think there is a safer or easier system!


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## cunninghamww (Jun 8, 2011)

Pros:

- You can hunt trees you would otherwise never be able to hunt in a lock on...thus you can pick the perfect tree instead of settling for a tree that might be slightly out of position for a lockon. You can also be much more versatile.
- Being able to pick the perfect tree really enhances your cover...you can hunt some really gnarly trees and be virtually invisible
- you are ROCK SOLID on your shot. Instead of having to stand on a small platform and worry about unsteadiness (especially if you have been sitting down for a while), your weight is very balanced when shooting from a web. In fact, I think my overall form improves when hunting from a web.
- You can have an infinite more number of trees to hunt. Before I started using a saddle, I had one particular 120 acre farm and I only had 4 spots to hunt because I only had 4 stands (i hunt a whole bunch of places and have over 20 stands, just have to spread them out)...but now, I have 10-12 trees set up with shooting lanes cut...this gives me greater options depending on the wind situation. Sooo...it saves you money in the long run.
-Comfort...all you need to bring with you when hunting out of a web is your bow and a paper towel...the bow to shoot the deer with and the paper towel to wipe the drool off your face when you wake up. It is like sitting in a recliner. Unbelievable comfort also translates to more time spent in the tree. More time in the tree=more deer.

I could go on and on, and will add a few more if I think of them, but these are the biggies.


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## phantom1 (Dec 14, 2004)

One eye, check out John Eberhart's books and dvd's and he addresses keeping warm. The big things are dressing in layers(no cotton, put polyester next to your skin, it wicks sweat(your enemy) and use heat packs everywhere). The self-adhesive type are great, putting one over each kidney and one over your heart. A big jumbo hand warmer in a hand muff. All that stuff has been great for me. Rain gear in rain or wind. Another guy recently told me he uses a big hand warmer pack in a scarf around his neck(also where blood flows). This approach heats your whole body. A good hat is important too(I like the MadBomber style).

It's pretty neat what the right clothes and heat packs can do. I would add that once you start to cool down from getting to your blind or stand, don't wait until you are cold to add layers or heat packs. Fire those heat packs up ahead of time and start adding layers as soon as you can. If you wait until you are cold, if may be too late.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

The coldest weather I have hunted in was around 10 degrees actual temperature while in a tree saddle. Similar to using a web. Great baselayers are a must my second layer is another baselayer. Next comes the fleece with wool for outerwear. That + some boot blankets and you'll be warm enough as long as you dont sweat going in.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

I agree with all of the above posts on pros and cons. The two advantages that I can't emphasize enough are:
1. Safety. As Blue Hunter mentioned, if you use the bow tether as a climbing belt, you CAN'T fall out of the tree. Hooked in from ground to hunting height the whole time.
2. Rock solid shooting form. As cunninghamww mentioned, I am actually more steady shooting from the saddle or web. It is kind of like using a shooting sling with a rifle with a push/pull concept. In the saddle or web, you push off with your feet using your foot pegs and let the web/saddle provide resistance to get you steady with no wobble.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

When you compare how much time you sit waiting as compared to the time shooting I'll take comfort everytime. The advantage you
have shooting in the tree saddle is very slight, compared to the comfort you sacrafice. I had a neopreme saddle and used the trophyline
knee pads. I could never get truely comfortable in the saddle. I was constantly fidgeting to find a comfortable position. My knees ached
by the end of the season. The web is also alot easier on the bottoms of your feet since you don't have to support any of your weight 
on the tree steps. When you settle into the web your body says, aaaaah comfort. As for being able to shoot around the tree it all
depends on the size of the tree and if it's leaning any. That's the same for both. Some say the saddle is lighter. Trophy Line says the
neopreme model is 4.5 lbs, but that is without the straps. It's 6.5 lbs with the straps. The Web is heavier, but I make it up because I don't
have to carry a back pack with the web. I have a pouch and water bottle mounted on the side of the web. The web also has a nice
pocket on the back of the seat for carrying extra items. When I hunt public land I strap my 4 lone wolf sticks on the back of the Web
fold up my scent loc coveralls and fold the seat over and snap the buckles and I am ready to go in a nice compact unit.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

HawgEnvy said:


> i'm just having a hard time visualizing the set up and climbing/decending with this system. it souds great,though. would love to see a video demo of the entire routine in depth.


Do a search on you tube. Guidos has two videos showing it in use.


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## tllhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

I think he is talking about climbing with the system proposed by solar41


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

Referring back to my posts on page 3 of this thread - this is how I climb (apologies for the average quality on the video..): http://youtu.be/9NDVoQEvQMY

I am sure the method could be improved even further. 

I could not decide on what climbing sticks to use, and in the end got some ideas from reading on arborist forums. I think this climbing method works really well with Guidos web. 

A smooth tree would be easier and faster to climb than the one I climb in the above video. Please note that that I am NOT an experienced climber. I always feel safe using this method andit is easy to add an extra sling if you want additional redundancy for safety. 
Once I am at height I tend to keep both feet in the foot loop. This allows me to stand up for a shot (leaning out), and you can easily shift your position enough to look around the tree.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

Solar, that's pretty slick. That would be a pretty light weight set up for long hikes on public land. The only thing
I would add would be a ratchet strap with some ameristep steps for a platform to stand on when you reached
hunting height. That would give you alot more mobility for moving around the tree for a shot.


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## lnevett (Apr 9, 2006)

solar, I really think thats thats is a very good idea, thanks for sharing!!!

I am going to try with the saddle and some steps as platform.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Solar41, I want more pictures of you showing more detail of how you are attached to the tree in your hunting position. In the last picture the hook up to the tree was cut off or not shown. Your method of climbing with the web is the best method that I have ever seen.

I have a tree suit and a steel climbing platform that they used to sell and it climbs very similar to your technique. Getting rid of this 10 lbs of steel climbing platform would be very nice. 

I am also thinking that a linemans belt hookup to your system would be helpful and allow you to completely turn loose of the tree as you moved you upper loop up the tree as you stood in the bottom loop and leaned back against the linesman belt.

As I said your system is the best that I have ever seen. I am excited and would like to see more pictures just to make sure that I understand exactly what is being done.

I am not familiar with the terminology of "bridge or sliding bridge". Would you explain this to me and tell me the advantages of the bridge?


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## tllhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks Solar41, for the time and effort. The video was helpful. I still have a question or two. How many slings were you using to climb? It appeared that it only required two. What size were you using on that particular tree? Thanks again for the info. This looks to be a great solution to the problems I face while hunting.


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

wow that is pretty lightweight climbing system ya got there Solar! Awesome stuff.....Is it a workout though?


Jim P, a sliding bridge is a rope or strap connection between both sides of the harness that will slide through your main tether hookup, allowing an easier leaning/turning motion.

Sliding bridge which the treesaddle uses












static hook up. 










The web actually uses two static points to hook up to which Im not sure if it makes turning harder or easier than one in the center, but the sliding bridge will be superior to both in terms of manuverability


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Thanks for the explanation. I can see where that would make it easier to turn for a shot.


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## lnevett (Apr 9, 2006)

Solar you should start a new thread explaning your method.

I just try it with the saddle and I used two ropes (HSS Tree straps) with prusics, one attached to the saddle and the other to a small loop to put the the foot, and let me tell that it worked great!

That is what I call a super light climbing method!

Thanks.


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## ahawk19 (Aug 16, 2007)

That is brilliant. Talk about lightweight and mobile. I am with highwaynorth about using a set of ratcheting steps up top as it would add to your ability to move around the tree up top. Thanks for sharing.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I had to give this method a try. I used a tree suit and I made a double foot loop using 15' of 3/8" nylon line. I was able to climb fairly easily. My biggest aggravation with the treesuit was sliding its connection up the tree. One tip that worked well for me was to use my hand to pull up my feet which were in the foot loops and then move the foot loop line up the tree. By doing this I didn't have to take my feet out of the loops.

I am going to have to experiment some more with this system.


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

Tllhunter: I used two slings, the one for my feet was a 240cm, and the top sling was 150cm I think. Both slings are setup like the one in the photo above (eg girth hitch around the tree). I dont change anything once I leave the ground. 
I did use a bridge (used a 90cm sling for the bridge and an extra carabiner) as per the suggestions at the start of this thread. I am at work now but will take some more pics tonight.
I do not have any ameristeps, would be great if someone could make a comparison between ameristeps to standing in the sling when at the top. Is the ratchet strap fairly compact in size? Does it make noise?
Happy that you guys might make use of this climbing method.


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

Jim p; I initially used the straps that came with the web, and just added the foot loop. Similar to you I found it much slower t to move the strap up the tree hence using a sling now. 
I should probably start a separate thread as mentioned....


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

Inevett: Do you think the prucisc and ropes are better/easier to use than slings? I am curious - like I stated I think it is a great method but maybe we can help each other to improve even further.... glad you liked it !!!


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## lnevett (Apr 9, 2006)

solar41 said:


> Inevett: Do you think the prucisc and ropes are better/easier to use than slings? I am curious - like I stated I think it is a great method but maybe we can help each other to improve even further.... glad you liked it !!!


I tried the prussic approach since it is what I had at hand. I think it might be easier to adjust to different tree sizes, since you can adjust, via the prussic, the height of the foot loop and the top rope/sling.

As for the platform I will keep my cranford screw in steps, since they give a more stable foot rest.

Definitely it is a great way to climb, and I am sure a lot of people will try it and give away tips to improve it even more.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

solar41 said:


> Jim p; I initially used the straps that came with the web, and just added the foot loop. Similar to you I found it much slower t to move the strap up the tree hence using a sling now.
> I should probably start a separate thread as mentioned....


Start another thread. This climbing technique is golden and needs to be analyzed and critiqued. I think that this is going to help quite a few hunters.


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok - will start a new thread now.

First though I want to say a big thanks to Blue Hunter for the sliding bridge tip! 
Thanks!!!


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## solar41 (Nov 11, 2011)

thread for the climbing here:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1626624&p=1062524768#post1062524768


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

Okay, you guys have sold me. I will be ordering a Guido's web for next season.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

solar41, way to go! Thanks for your climbing tip as well, that is one of the coolest techniques I've seen yet!


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

Blue Hunter said:


> solar41, way to go! Thanks for your climbing tip as well, that is one of the coolest techniques I've seen yet!


I agree. It is really slick looking.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Putt4Doe said:


> More pics!!!!
> 
> Awesome thread. I dont have a detachable linemans belt for my saddle (i have the first gen)... What would you recommend to make the "bridge" ?? What do you think about this? http://www.lonewolfhuntingproducts.com/shopping/Products/Replacement-Belt-Extension__RBE.aspx
> 
> ...


Hey I used that Lone Wolf extension strap as my bridge on my hunt this morning. I think it was just about perfect, but I 'doubled' it over so it was only 18" long (ie, I had both sewn loops on the same carbiner and then ran the newly formed loop through the opposite side carabiner).


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Very cool! I went out yesterday and tried a Bluewater climb spec 1" runner rated 32kn in the 36" length....worked but seemed long. Went down to the 24" and seemed just about right. Got em at GearEXPRESS for under 5 bucks a piece! they have 6",1',2',3' and 4'. These were the strongest kn/largest dia nylon runners I could find searching the net for hours; Black Diamond,Motelius, Sterling, etc. Found some good info/reviews on Gear Labs/Topo with Chris Macnamara too. Check em out and let me know!


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

The red one is a 12'' i girth hitched to my pussic for a grab handle. The blue is a 24'' as my bridge. With the added length of the biners the 24'' seemed like a good fit with plenty of turning room.


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

Blue Hunter, you're killing me :wink:. I haven't even gotten my Web yet and I have lost track of all of these good suggestions. God bless thread subscription.
Thanks for the great pictures.


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## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

Blue Hunter said:


> View attachment 1215148
> View attachment 1215149
> View attachment 1215150
> View attachment 1215151
> ...


Looking good! I have the same kinda system set up for my saddle, however, I have a second prussic for my "backup"... I doubt the first would ever fail, but if it does, I have the second there!... can't wait for my web to come in!


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

I've noticed a rounded pear shaped belay biner works best with the bridge webbing to keep it straight and not wrinkle up on you. The BD mini pear,BD Rocklock, Rock Exotica Pirate, Petzll Attache are All good. Also, don't forget to wax your webbing with Gulf wax (same as Treesaddle) to make no friction, and slide quiet.


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## archer53039 (Sep 14, 2011)

*No knee pads required with the web.*

That's the nice thing about the Guido's web saddle, there is a built in tree rest that rests against the tree so you don't have to hold yourself away from the tree with your knees. I've sat in mine for hours and never touched the tree with my knees. It is the most comfortable stand I've used, truthfully, I have a hard time staying awake on those warm days when the sun is shining and the birds are singing. Of course I'm 64 so taking a nap is right up my alley.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Very cool! I went out yesterday and tried a Bluewater climb spec 1" runner rated 32kn in the 36" length....worked but seemed long. Went down to the 24" and seemed just about right. Got em at GearEXPRESS for under 5 bucks a piece! they have 6",1',2',3' and 4'. These were the strongest kn/largest dia nylon runners I could find searching the net for hours; Black Diamond,Motelius, Sterling, etc. Found some good info/reviews on Gear Labs/Topo with Chris Macnamara too. Check em out and let me know!


That is ironic. I ordered a runner from GearEXPRESS on Friday! I got the Yates 2' Anchor Runner for $11. 5000lb strength (approx. 22kN). 
I also got the last three Trango Superfly Bent Gate Carabiners on close-out. I use these instead of the ones that Butch supplies. They are the lighest and they are dull gray color.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Hey BlueHunter-One Minor Suggestion*



Blue Hunter said:


> I've noticed a rounded pear shaped belay biner works best with the bridge webbing to keep it straight and not wrinkle up on you. The BD mini pear,BD Rocklock, Rock Exotica Pirate, Petzll Attache are All good. Also, don't forget to wax your webbing with Gulf wax (same as Treesaddle) to make no friction, and slide quiet.


Hey BlueHunter, you know we are bros, right? So, don't take this as criticism...BUT...
I am not crazy about the way you have the carabiner loaded right on your knot for the prussic. I could be wrong, but I think the strongest configuration for a carabiner on a prussic is to tie a double or triple fisherman's knot and then have the knot offset from the valley of the loop where you click in with your biner.



Sorry for the garage pics, but it's snowing outside and my wimpy butt didn't want to get out there!
BTW, you can see that I also tie a figure 8 in the tag end of my tether rope and clip in to the biner as a back-up for the prussic. I use a Petzl Atache' as my main biner and Trango Superfly Bent Gates as my two connections to the Web. BlueWater Assault Line 11.4mm mainline and BlueWater 8mm dynamic prusik. My 'bridge' in this pic is the Lone Wolf extension strap (36", but I have been doubling it over to make an 18" bridge). Still experimenting with the perfect bridge, like BlueHunter.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Padding for V-bar*

I love this thread! Decided that I must pad my V-bar or I would not be one of the coolest GW Hunters on AT. So here is my first effort. Took some scrap samples from about 15 years ago that I got from Day One. Not even sure what the material it is (maybe Warp knit or BuckSuede?). Sewed it on with the stictching on the bottom side (let the deer and squirrels look at my crappy seamstress work, not me!).
Whaddya Think?


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## quick kill (May 18, 2009)

jim p said:


> Start another thread. This climbing technique is golden and needs to be analyzed and critiqued. I think that this is going to help quite a few hunters.


I could not see myself even attempting this one. I think the absolute best method for climbing in a Guido's Web is a climbing stick that has two foot pegs on either side such as the Summit or Muddy sticks. I do not like using my LW sticks because of one peg only and when your resting during install, you have one leg higher than the other.


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## quick kill (May 18, 2009)

Also, the two pegs on each side allow you to have greater control over the tether belt when climbing. I've spoken to Butch several times and you have to keep that tether belt at chest level while climbing. It's super easy when you can rest both feet next to each other as you ascend and descend. I have had trouble climbing when one leg is below the other and I'm grasping for the next peg while trying to hold onto the belt. At times, it has wound up almost near my feet and I know I heard a few nearby Whitetails laughing.


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## quick kill (May 18, 2009)

mtsrunner said:


> I love this thread! Decided that I must pad my V-bar or I would not be one of the coolest GW Hunters on AT. So here is my first effort. Took some scrap samples from about 15 years ago that I got from Day One. Not even sure what the material it is (maybe Warp knit or BuckSuede?). Sewed it on with the stictching on the bottom side (let the deer and squirrels look at my crappy seamstress work, not me!).
> Whaddya Think?


Is this for function or appearance? The reason I ask is the fork can make noise especially if it's not going into the tree at 90 degrees especially on rough barked trees.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mts,

I definitely appreciate your input. That's what this thread is all about....helping each other. I'll definitely adjust my prussic so the biner doesn't rest on it and attatch the tag end of the tether back to my biner for backup.Awesome tip! I notice you have 8 wraps in your prussic as compared to 6. Do you think there is any advantage to this? Still experimenting with different biners. Real impressed with the Rock Exotica biners. Called and talked to company...they are USA made and real high quality. The Pirate looks very similar to your Petzl Attache. Cool job a on the v bracket! I used 2 layers of vss fuzzy stuff on mine and smoothed out the square edges that contact the tree. Definitely made it quiet when carrying sticks/LW Assasin, and way less prone to grab bark (making noise) when standing up.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

quick kill said:


> Is this for function or appearance? The reason I ask is the fork can make noise especially if it's not going into the tree at 90 degrees especially on rough barked trees.


Just trying to reduce noise from contact with tree. I agree about the need to be 90 degrees.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> mts,
> 
> I definitely appreciate your input. That's what this thread is all about....helping each other. I'll definitely adjust my prussic so the biner doesn't rest on it and attatch the tag end of the tether back to my biner for backup.Awesome tip! I notice you have 8 wraps in your prussic as compared to 6. Do you think there is any advantage to this? Still experimenting with different biners. Real impressed with the Rock Exotica biners. Called and talked to company...they are USA made and real high quality. The Pirate looks very similar to your Petzl Attache. Cool job a on the v bracket! I used 2 layers of vss fuzzy stuff on mine and smoothed out the square edges that contact the tree. Definitely made it quiet when carrying sticks/LW Assasin, and way less prone to grab bark (making noise) when standing up.


I don't think there is any advantage at all with 8 wraps vs. 6 wraps, I just happened to use a long piece of prussic rope on that setup and 8 wraps looked tidier. 
What is vss fuzzy stuff?
I have looked at Rock Exotica's stuff. Looks nice. I should probably switch away my Petzl' (sorry France). Everything else in my setup is domestic.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

The VSS Fuzzy Stuff is an adhesive backed Stretchable fleece. Comes in Hardwoods. Much better than the regular stuff at Bass Pro. Best I've found for arrow rest, etc. It contours and sticks to almost anything...really good durable stuff! Get it at Keystone Country store for $3.99 I think


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

I'd try drilling a couple small holes on both sides of the "V". Take a couple pieces of of black rubber hose and split them down the middle on one side. Wrap them on each side of the V and bolt with some small screws, washers and nylon lock nuts. Shouldnt make any more noise against the tree.


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## dandbuck (Jan 11, 2007)

Anyone ever add a "V" bar to a Tree Saddle? Seems like a good addition to help with knee fatigue rather than thick knee pads. I also need to add the spanner bracket to keep from pinching my hips after an all day sit.


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

dandbuck said:


> Anyone ever add a "V" bar to a Tree Saddle? Seems like a good addition to help with knee fatigue rather than thick knee pads. I also need to add the spanner bracket to keep from pinching my hips after an all day sit.


I modded my saddle with a piece of 3/8's plywood cut in the shape of a seat with a tongue coming off the front to contact the tree. Served 2 functions. Made it way more comfortable on long sits and and kept you away from the tree when relaxing. I thought of trying a metal fork piece but the wood tongue worked O.K.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

dandbuck said:


> Anyone ever add a "V" bar to a Tree Saddle? Seems like a good addition to help with knee fatigue rather than thick knee pads. I also need to add the spanner bracket to keep from pinching my hips after an all day sit.


I made a seat with a V-bar for my tree saddle one time. The problem I had was that I tried to make it hook up like Guido's Web using two tethers coming from the seat and connecting to the lineman's D-loops on the saddle. I then connected the D-loops to a tree tether like the Web...BAD IDEA. The D-loops are sewn in a manner that they can take a lot of pulling horizontally, but not diagonally or vertically. 
I now have an otherwise really good Large Ambush Saddle with one of the D-loops compromised where the threads are pulling away. 
I should have it sewn back up, but I'm still not sure I would trust it. I certainly wouldn't have it re-sewn and then sell it. Just wouldn't feel good about that.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> The VSS Fuzzy Stuff is an adhesive backed Stretchable fleece. Comes in Hardwoods. Much better than the regular stuff at Bass Pro. Best I've found for arrow rest, etc. It contours and sticks to almost anything...really good durable stuff! Get it at Keystone Country store for $3.99 I think
> 
> View attachment 1218233
> View attachment 1218236
> View attachment 1218237


Awesome stuff there, BlueHunter. My Atache' is about to be retired for that RE Pirate. Will be all domestic at that point!
Hey, I was looking back at your rig, I think that that red runner that you are using for a handhold might have some more functionality. I made a similar one for my rig last night and got out my TC Encore (I know, GASP, I'm a gun hunter, too). Anyway, the loop made a sweet gun cradle. I felt very steady looking through the scope at some distant targets. I just slid the forearm in to the loop up to the scopemount and then let the side of the loop rest on the side of the objective housing of the scope. Nothing in the way at all and very steady. The cool thing about that is if you needed to swing around to make a shot behind you with a firearm, you are not having to shoot totally offhand. 
I can't see myself ever going back to the standard tree tether. The rope/carabiner/prussic/bridge is just awesome!


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## Stickthrowin' (Nov 25, 2010)

I have one of the original Ambusher slings (circa 1980's) that I have a few ideas for, courtesy of this thread.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mts, that idea for gun season sounds awesome... I'm going to order some of your Bluewater ropes and make my own tether/prussics like you did. As I remember, you put a link up where you got it on a earlier page? How much rope do you order at a time and in what lengths do I need for each (tether/prussic) set up? The Bluewater stuff is the best!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> mts, that idea for gun season sounds awesome... I'm going to order some of your Bluewater ropes and make my own tether/prussics like you did. As I remember, you put a link up where you got it on a earlier page? How much rope do you order at a time and in what lengths do I need for each (tether/prussic) set up? The Bluewater stuff is the best!


I got my BW rope and prussic from BlackJack Mountain Outfitters:
http://shop.blackjackmountainoutfitters.com/114-mm-7-16-AssaultLine-501760BK.htm

They are out of the 8mm dynamic prussic cord in the olive and tan (only have bright colors, if that matters to you), but I think I have found some that might be even better from Attack! OpGear:
http://www.attackopgear.com/Rappelling-Webbing-Cordage/1S-10T-06S.html
It is rated almost as strong as the BW Assault Line main line that I use! I ordered some yesterday to try it out.

As far as lengths, it depends on your knots and size of rope you get:

If you get 8mm prussic cord and use a double fisherman's knot, you can probably get by with 3 feet. I usually get 4 feet and cut it off to about 40", but this time I ordered 3 feet. Hopefully it won't be too short.

For the mainline I will assume you are getting 7/16" (11.4mm) rope, I think this is the best balance of lightweight, but stronger than you would ever need.
If you tie the main loop with a figure 8 follow-through, then get 10 feet.
If you tie the main loop with a regular figure 8, then get 9 feet. 
Either of these scenarios will allow you to tie a small figure 8 in the tag end to use as a back-up in your carabiner (like I pictured above), and still have enough rope to hunt out of a pretty beefy tree.

FWIW, most climbing guys will tell you that 8mm prussic is too big to use with 11.4mm mainline, because they are afraid it won't grab. I agree for rock-climbing and lifelines where you are constantly sliding the prussic up and down and could fall at any minute. However, the way we are using these, I think it is better to get the strongest prussic that you can because it is constantly 'loaded'. I have never had one come close to slipping. If anything, it is hard to get loosened to make adjustments. These are just my experiences, and if you really want to have a bomb-proof rig, then go with a 1/2" mainline. For me, that would be getting too bulky and you would probably need a 12' piece to tie the knots and have enough left to get around the tree. I trust my life with my setup (with apologies to Jim Shockey)!

BTW, I found a nylon runner stronger than yours. It is the Yates Heavy Duty Anchor Loop, rated at 15,000 lbs./64.5kN!!! It only comes in yellow, though.
It is also on Attack! OpGear's page:
http://www.attackopgear.com/Rappelling-Anchors/Y690.html


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## adawg (Aug 16, 2009)

I know this has probably been asked before, but going through 100 pages of posts on using clmbing ropes gets tough. If i want to experiement with this type of set up, i.e. rope and prusik knot, will the HSS lifeline be strong enough for the constant load? I would buy the better climbing rope and accessory cord from bluewater, but I dont trust myself tying the knots. How adjustable is the prusik knot versus a bachmann knot? It looks like the bachmann slides up better beucase of the biner.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

adawg said:


> I know this has probably been asked before, but going through 100 pages of posts on using clmbing ropes gets tough. If i want to experiement with this type of set up, i.e. rope and prusik knot, will the HSS lifeline be strong enough for the constant load? I would buy the better climbing rope and accessory cord from bluewater, but I dont trust myself tying the knots. How adjustable is the prusik knot versus a bachmann knot? It looks like the bachmann slides up better beucase of the biner.


I would imagine the HSS would be fine, but they won't tell you that you can use it for liability reasons. You could always mess around with it at ground level. The thing I don't like about their prussic is that they don't tie it with a double fisherman's knot. I will send you one of my rigs with the BlueWater rope and prussic for a decent price if you are interested.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mts, I'd be interested in getting one from you. Do you have enough materials to make me up one?


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## tdrouin (Dec 1, 2011)

I am new to this. Can someone tell me what is the best rope to use and what kind of rope do you use for the purssic knot.

Thanks


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

adawg,

I've had the HSS, Summit, Lone Wolf, etc. and most recently the Mountaineer Sports lineman's belts/rope tree tether. They all work, but some are better than others. The Mountaineer Sports one I got with my Rescue One CDS is by far the best Quality pre-made lineman's belt/rope tree tether I've seen. The prussic ends are tied only with an overhand knot (not the strongest, ALL the store bought ones use this knot on the prussic ends that I've seen) but the MS is the only one that sews the Prussic knot ends solid so even if the knot gives it cannot come loose. The tether on the MS is made of 1" while the prussic is 8mm. This is by far the strongest and safest one I'm aware of you can get without making your own. mtsrunner custom makes his own out of the best material available and uses the strongest knots.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Heres a couple pictures of the Mountaineer Sports vs the HSS. Check the stitching on the MS, and Yes that's a tie strap HSS uses or at least use to for backup :thumbs_do.....


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

tdrouin said:


> I am new to this. Can someone tell me what is the best rope to use and what kind of rope do you use for the purssic knot.
> 
> Thanks


Static rope for your main. Going to be 11.5 millimeter.

Look for 5-7 millimeter cord for your Prussic. They will just call it Prussic or accessory cord.

You may think bigger diameter is safer for your Prussic, but the larger it is the more likely it is to slip


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## tdrouin (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks sb22. Any sugestions on name brands?


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## tdrouin (Dec 1, 2011)

mtsrunner said:


> I will send you one of my rigs with the BlueWater rope and prussic for a decent price if you are interested.


I would be interested in that. How much?


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## adawg (Aug 16, 2009)

Blue Hunter, 

Great info. I cant believe a zip tie is the backup. The sewn end one on the MS must be a real climbing prusic.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

I found these online and thought they might be good. (26kn) They are sewn/certified prusik loops in various lengths. With no not to tie that will reduce strength what do you think? I talked with a couple rope companies today and they told me the 7/16" or 1/2" mainline will both work with the larger 8mm prussik. 

http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/481231/SC080/_/8mm_Sewn_Cord


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## Extreme vft17 (Mar 29, 2007)

TTT saving this for later, Tree saddle wears me out after a while, still like it. but would like to try this as well.


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

Blue Hunter said:


> I found these online and thought they might be good. (26kn) They are sewn/certified prusik loops in various lengths. With no not to tie that will reduce strength what do you think? I talked with a couple rope companies today and they told me the 7/16" or 1/2" mainline will both work with the larger 8mm prussik.
> 
> http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/481231/SC080/_/8mm_Sewn_Cord


dunno if id use it on a 1/2" line. The smaller your prussik line, the tighter its going to lock down. I was using a 5mil Prussik on a 11.5mil line and it locked down ultra tight. I would really have to work and tug at it to be able to loosen it up for adjustment.

The larger lines may tighten up sufficiently but they will loosen up to slide alot easier also. To move a prussik, you basically squeeze it and I just picture someone moving around the tree for a shot and the prussik knot pressing against the tree, which could be bad. 

Recently switched to a 6mil line for my 11.5 mil line and it seems to be a happy medium


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

tdrouin said:


> Thanks sb22. Any sugestions on name brands?


Bluewater is popular

Think the stuff I get from Blue ridge mountain sports near me is Sterling rope

Anything you get from a good climbing store is going to be good quality, but basically whatever you can get by the foot.

Only stuff Id be iffy about is the no-name stuff you see on Ebay


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Good info sb220,

The 1/2 inch in the Bluewater is 13mm and the 7/16 Assault is 11.4mm. I noticed Bluewater also makes the sewn prusik loops too. Over on the Attack Ops Gear site that mts linked earlier they have some jungle camo 1/2 mainline with an incredible strength kn! That said the 8mm prusik should work with either. From what i'm understanding there is a ballpark figure (ratio) they go by of mainline vs prusik like you said.


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## Tater12 (Feb 7, 2004)

mtsrunner said:


> I I will send you one of my rigs with the BlueWater rope and prussic for a decent price if you are interested.


I would be interested in one also if it's not to much trouble.


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## 8talltines (Nov 8, 2011)

Hey Mtsrunner PM me to let me know how much you want for the rope and prussic setup you use for the saddle.
Thanks


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Ok guys, getting a few requests to tie these up for people. I don't mind doing it, but please understand that I have the utmost confidence in this system, but I am just a hunter like the rest of you. 
I am low on prussic, so I don't know how many I can make right now. I tend to like the 8mm prussic with the 11.4 mm BlueWater Assault line. I agree with sb220, that it seems like there is not enough difference in diameter, but we are not really using this system like a normal prussic. In a normal prussic, you are moving it up and down the mainline frequently and quickly 'loading' the prussic, hoping that it grabs. In our system here, we get to our hunting height and then gradually sit down, loading the knot slowly. I actually leave my lineman's belt attached until I am perfectly happy that I have my prussic/carabiner at the right height. Generally, that is the last time I adjust the knot until I am ready to climb down. I can get some 7mm prussic if someone would rather have it. My theory is that the prussic is the lowest rated element in this system, so I want the strongest cord possible. I have used this exact setup for a couple of years and am very confident with it.
BlueHunter, I am ashamed of the folks at HSS, that is pretty weak. 
The MS guys look like they know what they are doing.
Nice find on the Sterling setup, too.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Ok, several PMs and requests for a rope/prussic setup. I am almost out of prussic, so I need to order some more. If you guys don't mind waiting a couple of days, I am going to try the 8mm Technora that I ordered yesterday. If I like it, I will probably make them with it. I don't want to give a price until I see if I like the new prussic. 
Adawg, I have yours ready to go, PM me your address.
Sal, I told you that you would eventually get sick of dealing with those Trophyline belts. Just kidding, keep playing around with your saddle, try the rope/prussic on the ground for a while until you get comfortable. I will PM you when I get some more prussic.
Thanks guys,
Kevin, mtsrunner


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

On a related note, I am starting to get my ducks in a row to produce a prototype that I believe will blow away any type of sling stand ever produced. I have a full time job, so it might take me a couple of years to get it out, but I am serious about trying to do it. I have a 4 page document of features and benefits that I will incorporate. Stay Tuned.
mtsrunner


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

mtsrunner said:


> On a related note, I am starting to get my ducks in a row to produce a prototype that I believe will blow away any type of sling stand ever produced. I have a full time job, so it might take me a couple of years to get it out, but I am serious about trying to do it. I have a 4 page document of features and benefits that I will incorporate. Stay Tuned.
> mtsrunner


Hoping it looks exactly like a medium mesh saddle  Cant seem to get my hands on one of these


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## 8talltines (Nov 8, 2011)

Thanks Kevin.


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## dandbuck (Jan 11, 2007)

One eye said:


> How are you guys dressing in cold weather with these things? Not sure I am seeing myself using my Heater Body Suit with one.


THis year Rifle season I only hunted out of my tree saddle. all day sits(3) Once Istarted to get cold, I had another pack in the tree with a large jacket and set of XL bibs. i put the jacket on first and tucked into the saddle, then put on the XL bibs with the straps over the jacket. I put these on while hanging in the saddle, no problem. I also criss-crossed the bib suspenders and put one of the suspenders through my tree strap loop which let me use the bibs as a backrest. It worked really well. Not sure if a HBS would work or not, but you would need to have a couple zippers or magnetic closures installed to let the straps out. I stayed toasty this year,although it was not cold really.
Good Luck though.


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## tdrouin (Dec 1, 2011)

How long should my pursik cord be?


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## adawg (Aug 16, 2009)

mtsrunner, 
You are awesome... helping out your brothers


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## sb220 (Jul 20, 2009)

tdrouin said:


> How long should my pursik cord be?


It doesnt really matter. You probably need to start out with at least a 3.5 foot piece of cord to get a 3 loop prussic. Mabye 4 foot if you are using a cord 7mil or greater.

On another note the encyclopedia spells it Prusik....Think Ive spelled it three different ways in this thread :wink:


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## Tater12 (Feb 7, 2004)

Ok guys I just got my web. I have a few questions. How do you pack your lone wolf sticks when carrying them. Also how and what do you use to hang your bow and pack when hunting so it's not in your way when moving around the tree? I am going to play with mine most of this week trying to get familiar with it. Hope to use it in Illinois week after next.


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## Nitro1970 (Jan 26, 2009)

Looks prudy slick but you y'all ever get tired of a tree being right in front of you?


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

If it helps I measured my standard store bought prusik/rope combos. They used 7 to 8mm cord on 7/16 to 1/2" mainline depending. The length of the cords looped and tied were around 14 inches so figure another few inches in the knot. The Sterling sewn Prusik loops in the link earlier came in 16" and 22" if that gives any indication (long and short in 8mm). Keep in mind these are the closed loop lengths. If you buy the cord and tie it yourself I think sb220 has good advice on the lengths to start with....you can always cut off any excess and burn the ends.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Ok guys, I have 10 setups tied up and ready to ship. I was in TN today for work and found some really good 7mm Sterling cord to make the prusiks (I'll go with that spelling). I did some more research last night on the Technora that I was going to try. It is stronger, but that is not the only factor. Some types of ropes lose much of their strength when they are knotted and more loss after repeated flexings. The Sterling that I used to make these is a great balance of end-use strength. lightweight, good diameter ratio to the mainline and its camo!
The Technora's strength really drops off when tied and repeatedly used. Supposedly because the Aramid fibers (like Kevlar) are actually so strong that when they are tied together, they actually cut each other.
I will post pics in a few minutes of the new setups. I am going to start returning PMs for those who have already expressed interest.
Thanks,
Kevin


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## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

Looking forward to checking it out! I've been playing with the prussic system for a long time with my saddle, and am looking forward to using it with the GW! 

mtsrunner - thanks for all the help!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Putt4Doe said:


> Looking forward to checking it out! I've been playing with the prussic system for a long time with my saddle, and am looking forward to using it with the GW!
> 
> mtsrunner - thanks for all the help!


No problem. I am glad that other people are liking it. 
Working on getting some pics uploaded, but my daughter is working on a school project on the computer that I need.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*BlueWater 11.4mm mainline with Sterling 7mm Prusik*

I have 7 of these ready:
They are all brand new rope. I will load each knot one time by putting it around a tree and sitting down in my saddle/web to set the knots. The last pic is how it will sit when you are sitting in your Web/Saddle and the prusik is 'loaded'.
I will ship in an large envelope rather than a box, to keep costs down. 
Let me know if you have any questions.
Kevin


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Comparison of 7mm and 8mm Prusiks*

Here is the 8mm BlueWater prusiks that I have been hunting with on the either side, compared with the new 7mm Sterling prusik (middle) that I am using now. I like them all. I can't find the BW in the camo colors anywhere. I think I like the Sterling just as well, though. It is not as soft, but it is really light and strong. When it is not loaded, it tends to have a better 'memory' and stays in place better. This is important when walking through the woods-less chance of the knot working itself loose. Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks,
Kevin


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## Tater12 (Feb 7, 2004)

mtsrunner said:


> Ok guys, I have 10 setups tied up and ready to ship. I was in TN today for work and found some really good 7mm Sterling cord to make the prusiks (I'll go with that spelling). I did some more research last night on the Technora that I was going to try. It is stronger, but that is not the only factor. Some types of ropes lose much of their strength when they are knotted and more loss after repeated flexings. The Sterling that I used to make these is a great balance of end-use strength. lightweight, good diameter ratio to the mainline and its camo!
> The Technora's strength really drops off when tied and repeatedly used. Supposedly because the Aramid fibers (like Kevlar) are actually so strong that when they are tied together, they actually cut each other.
> I will post pics in a few minutes of the new setups. I am going to start returning PMs for those who have already expressed interest.
> Thanks,
> Kevin


I sent you a pm last night I am interested in one just let me know the price and payment info


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*video/pics*

I have had a couple of requests for a pic thread or video of this setup. What specific details would you guys like to see covered?
I would apologize for hijacking BlueHunter's thread, but I think we are past that point


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Tree Diameter of my rigs*

If anyone is wondering, the rigs I have tied up end up being about 6' long from loop to loop. You need a little room for the prusik and some slack to hook the smaller figure 8 back through your 'biner as a back-up, so that gives you about 5' to work with at the height that you will hunt. I would say that on most species of trees that have some taper, you would be okay climbing a tree that is about 6' (circumference) at the base. Of course that would equal about 23" diameter, which is about as big as any climber is rated for. I easily got one of my ropes around a tree that had a 20" diameter at ground level last night. 

My rule of thumb after using this system for several years is if I can get my arms around the tree at ground level, it will definitely work for species like Oak, Hickory and Peach (my personal favorite tree to hunt out of). It usually works for Poplar, but they don't have much taper, so I make sure that I can hug all the way around those trees. Large buttress trees like Cypress, I don't know, we don't have them here in the mountains. You ****@sses will have to figure that one out for yourselves 

Of course, if anyone has the perfect tree that is a monster, let me know, and I can do a longer mainline. Just let me know. 
Kevin


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mts, Please feel free to post as many/video/pics as you want here. We are all learning including me!


mtsrunner said:


> I have had a couple of requests for a pic thread or video of this setup. What specific details would you guys like to see covered?
> I would apologize for hijacking BlueHunter's thread, but I think we are past that point


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Thanks, I am setting up my gear now. My daughter is working on a research paper, but I am about to give her a new assignment as chief videographer!


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

mtsrunner said:


> Thanks, I am setting up my gear now. My daughter is working on a research paper, but I am about to give her a new assignment as chief videographer!


Awesome, this will be good!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Videos coming soon*

Okay, I just shot some video and my chief videographer has been promoted to video production manager (she has an A in that English class, anyway. This is much more important)!!

Her next task is to edit in such a manner that I don't look/sound like the village idiot. A monumental task, but she is a very talented kid.

I think I have received orders for my entire stockpile of rigs that I tied last night. I haven't received everyone's payment, however. Hit that PayPal, if you guys want one of this batch. I will be getting more done next week. 

Stay tuned for the videos, but be gentle there Siskell and Ebert.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Having some technical issues. Might be a couple of days to get this video out.


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

mtsrunner said:


> Having some technical issues. Might be a couple of days to get this video out.


I'm subscribed to this thread, looking forward to the vid!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

waiting4fall said:


> I'm subscribed to this thread, looking forward to the vid!


Thanks. I am going to have to get on the phone with JVC's customer support tomorrow. I can't figure out how get the files in .avi or other usable filetype to upload. Argghhhh!


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## Nitro1970 (Jan 26, 2009)

mtsrunner said:


> Thanks. I am going to have to get on the phone with JVC's customer support tomorrow. I can't figure out how get the files in .avi or other usable filetype to upload. Argghhhh!


I used this http://www.avs4you.com/AVS-Video-Converter.aspx to convert the .MOD files to other file types. Of course I'm cheap and just used the trial version which leaves a "watermark" or whatever you want to call it on video but mine wasn't that big a deal. It's been a long while but it seems like my JVC also came with "Power Director Express" which (IIRC) you can choose to turn it to an .AVI file when you "produce" it after all the editing. 

I hate JVC now LOL


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

mtsrunner said:


> Thanks. I am going to have to get on the phone with JVC's customer support tomorrow. I can't figure out how get the files in .avi or other usable filetype to upload. Argghhhh!


mtsrunner, check your pm.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

waiting4fall said:


> mtsrunner, check your pm.


Thanks again, Dave. I am going to take a look at the file conversion programs later today. Hopefully not too much longer to get the first videos up. I am going to re-shoot the Guido's Web version, there was too much wind and my tripod was squeaking pretty bad. The intro to the rope/hardware and the setting up the Tree Saddle video turned out okay, so those will probably be the first up.


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

mtsrunner said:


> Thanks again, Dave. I am going to take a look at the file conversion programs later today. Hopefully not too much longer to get the first videos up. I am going to re-shoot the Guido's Web version, there was too much wind and my tripod was squeaking pretty bad. The intro to the rope/hardware and the setting up the Tree Saddle video turned out okay, so those will probably be the first up.


"Archers helping archers!"


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Good news, I have contracted a local climbing company to fabricate what I think will be the perfect 'bridge' for Guido's Web. I should have the first run of these by next week. I wasted a bunch of money and time trying different lengths and materials. After a bunch of trial and error and research on webbing material, thread material/specs and breaking strengths in various scenarios, I finally decided that what I needed wasn't readily available. So, I am going to have the right version made. 

Details and prices to follow. 

I will say that breaking strength is tested to around 7000 lbs and it won't come in bright yellow or red!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

waiting4fall said:


> "Archers helping archers!"


Holy Cow, Dave. I just watched some of your video. When I get my company up and running, I will be approaching you about video and video editing for my products. 
REALLY nice work, there. 
Maybe I should just send you my camera and commission you to edit and put these up on the web?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Custom Bridge coming soon!*

I just spoke to the climbing gear company that is fabricating the 'bridges' for the Guido's web for me. They were in the process of tacking them up to my specs today and will probably be shipping them to me tomorrow. They should be available this week if anyone wants them, don't go out and buy a bunch of slings and runners like I did!. I will post pics when I get them.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mts, 
You are the man!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to see what you came up with........ definitely count me in!


mtsrunner said:


> I just spoke to the climbing gear company that is fabricating the 'bridges' for the Guido's web for me. They were in the process of tacking them up to my specs today and will probably be shipping them to me tomorrow. They should be available this week if anyone wants them, don't go out and buy a bunch of slings and runners like I did!. I will post pics when I get them.


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## lc12 (Jul 30, 2009)

Nitro1970 said:


> Looks prudy slick but you y'all ever get tired of a tree being right in front of you?


Actually, I prefer to have the tree in front of me!
I even use my Ol' Man Grand Vision with the gun rest bar as a back support and my mesh net pushed to the bar. I have a seat/back cushion that attaches to the "gun" rest, and then I will sit facing the tree.
Why?
Several reasons. It hides me a bit from the deer's approach, allowing me to follow the deer's movement with minimal movement of my own.
I can also use the tree to rest my rifle against when ready to take the shot.
AND, at those times in which I must stand up, or move, I can do so without attracting as much attention as I have the tree between me and the deer.
Have liked this method even before I bought the Tree Saddle, and one of the reasons why I like the Ol' Man Grand Vision stands!


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## Tater12 (Feb 7, 2004)

How are you guys managing to carry your gear with the Guidos web? How do you carry you sticks? For instance, I normally carry all my gear in my bad lands pack, with my clothes lashed to the outside for the walk in.. I often climb into the stand, and add bibbs and jacket after I cool off some. It looks like to me it would near impossible to add a layer if you get cold while in the Guidos web. Any input would be appreciated


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Custom Bridges are HERE!*

Hey guys,

I got the new bridges and I think they are just about perfect. The company who made them tested them to a breaking strength of almost 7000 ft/lbs! I am cutting the tags off because they didn't want me to advertise that, because they are not selling them direct. 
Here are some pics. 

The last pic is for color reference. From the left to right are:
Tree Saddle belt, my custom bridge, an old Lone Wolf extension strap and some solid black Sterling webbing.

PM me if you are interested. 

Unfortunately, they only had enough of this color to make me 14 of these and when they are gone, they are gone. I will be able to get them in black, but I am not crazy about black in the woods, I think it sticks out.


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## Mr.1 Shot (Jun 22, 2010)

How is the video coming ?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Mr.1 Shot said:


> How is the video coming ?


Going to re-shoot it. Too much wasted time, would have to edit a ton. I can do it much better with another take. It was also kind of windy and my tripod was squeaking, so the audio was not acceptable to me. 

Hopefully, it won't rain tomorrow and I can film when my daughter gets home from school to run the camera.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Wax with bridges?*

I always wax my webbing with these setups. Would it be a good idea to include a chunk of wax for those who are ordering new bridges? I have some chunks cut and ready to go if those who order want it. No extra $..


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## Tater12 (Feb 7, 2004)

I will take a chunk and try waxing the bridge


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

Me too


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

They look awesome! Great job!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Tater12 said:


> I will take a chunk and try waxing the bridge


You got it!
Thanks.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

johnmikerva said:


> Me too


Sure thing.
Thanks.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Gotta go to bed. I have 5 bridges left.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Some help with slick trees*

I had a question about the mainline rope slipping when you take your weight off of it. I have only found this to be a SLIGHT issue when in slick trees like poplar and peach. 

The other thing I will say is that if you are seeing the rope slip while you are messing around at ground level. I would advise putting some tree steps or your platform on the tree at about a foot off the ground. What you will discover is that it is hard to totally take your weight off of the rope, so you shouldn't get any slippage. 

However, it never hurts to be too safe, so here are a couple of tips I have found to be useful:

1. Climb to a place in the tree where you can throw you mainline over a limb. This will definitely prevent slipping and provide some cover. 

2. Put a screw in step at about head level (while standing straight up on your pegs/platform). Throw your line over it, like in pic. I do this and the step serves double duty as my bowhanger.



3. Make a 'knot-stop' by running the free end of the rope/carabiner/prusik back through the 'big loop'.


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## dandbuck (Jan 11, 2007)

All great ideas! Good job MTS!


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mtsrunner said:


> I had a question about the mainline rope slipping when you take your weight off of it. I have only found this to be a SLIGHT issue when in slick trees like poplar and peach.
> 
> The other thing I will say is that if you are seeing the rope slip while you are messing around at ground level. I would advise putting some tree steps or your platform on the tree at about a foot off the ground. What you will discover is that it is hard to totally take your weight off of the rope, so you shouldn't get any slippage.
> 
> ...


 Sweet! Keep the tips coming!


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Got my rope/prusik/bridge today from mtsrunner. All waxed up and ready to go...awesome!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Got my rope/prusik/bridge today from mtsrunner. All waxed up and ready to go...awesome!
> 
> View attachment 1225554


Thanks Rob.

I have more materials coming Tuesday. Thanks to those who are waiting on delivery. I will be caught up on getting everything shipped on Wednesday. Thanks for your patience. 
If you just ordered a 'bridge', they are all in transit. It is rope/prusik that I am waiting on. I thought I had enough, but my last two lengths were shorter than I thought, so I am waiting to get new rope.
I hope to also shoot the video on Wedesday.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

mtsrunner said:


> I have 7 of these ready:
> They are all brand new rope. I will load each knot one time by putting it around a tree and sitting down in my saddle/web to set the knots. The last pic is how it will sit when you are sitting in your Web/Saddle and the prusik is 'loaded'.
> I will ship in an large envelope rather than a box, to keep costs down.
> Let me know if you have any questions.
> Kevin


Hey Guys, I wanted to point out a couple of things in these pics.

1. I didn't lock down my screw gate of my carabiner. That is unacceptable. I was just taking pics at ground level, but I should know better. Sorry.

2. I don't think I emphasized enough the safety factors involved. Notice in all my pictures that the 'little loop' is captured in the carabiner. I consider this ABSOLUTELY necessary. The prusik (smaller diameter green and black cord) is for adjustment of drape. IT IS NOT YOUR LIFELINE!!! It is rated at 2900 lbs of Ultimate Tensile Strength, so it is plenty strong, BUT if you have the free end of a rope rated at 7194 lbs right in front of your face, why in the world wouldn't you just hook that in to the carabiner, too?

Thanks and sorry for the ALL CAPS RANT, but I was mad at myself for not being thorough enough in my explanations!

Kevin


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Better explanation of safety features*

This should be more clear...


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*If you happened to untie the 'little loop'...*

Here is a step by step of how I tied the little loop that goes in to the carabiner. The last two are front and back of the completed knot. I guess the doe didn't like my picture taking because she got up from her bed in my yard and went to the neighbors!


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## Jsouthern (Jan 31, 2011)

Can you tutorial the prussic knot as well?


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

Jsouthern said:


> Can you tutorial the prussic knot as well?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

waiting4fall said:


>


There ya go. Thanks Dave!!!

You can also learn how to tie the knot that I use for my 'big loop' from the same tutorials. Search for 'Figure 8 follow-through' in their climbing section. I don't know how to link that...little help, Dave?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Figure 8 Follow-through (the big loop)*

I can't figure out how to embed the video, so here is a link:

http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8fo...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com


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## Jsouthern (Jan 31, 2011)

can't get it to work.......... still trying


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Thats the knot I like for end loops! It's definitely a really strong one.


mtsrunner said:


> I can't figure out how to embed the video, so here is a link:
> 
> http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8fo...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)




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## Jsouthern (Jan 31, 2011)

Both end loops are the same knot, correct? Just made a small prototype out of some rope i have laying around and it seemed to work well.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

GUIDOS WEB ROPE/PRUSIK/BRIDGE VIDEO

Hey guys here is a short video on the Web with the new gear. Sorry for the quick ending but the mosquitos were hammering us through the whole thing! Hope you like it. -Rob


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> GUIDOS WEB ROPE/PRUSIK/BRIDGE VIDEO
> 
> Hey guys here is a short video on the Web with the new gear. Sorry for the quick ending but the mosquitos were hammering us through the whole thing! Hope you like it. -Rob


Very well done!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> GUIDOS WEB ROPE/PRUSIK/BRIDGE VIDEO
> 
> Hey guys here is a short video on the Web with the new gear. Sorry for the quick ending but the mosquitos were hammering us through the whole thing! Hope you like it. -Rob


Very Nice Rob!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Jsouthern said:


> Both end loops are the same knot, correct? Just made a small prototype out of some rope i have laying around and it seemed to work well.


No, they are not the same knot, but you could use the same knot in both ends. The way I send them, the big loop has a figure 8 follow-through. See the difference in the pictures. Blue Hunter re-tied his with the follow-through in both ends. That will give you less rope to work with. My future generations of this rig are going to have both loops sewn with high strength nylon thread. That will allow for less overall rope to be used, and it will be lighter and just as strong.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mtsrunner said:


> No, they are not the same knot, but you could use the same knot in both ends. The way I send them, the big loop has a figure 8 follow-through. See the difference in the pictures. Blue Hunter re-tied his with the follow-through in both ends. That will give you less rope to work with. My future generations of this rig are going to have both loops sewn with high strength nylon thread. That will allow for less overall rope to be used, and it will be lighter and just as strong.


 I forgot to mention the Bluewater assault rope is some awesome stuff! It is somewhat stiff when compared to other rope i have. This makes it much easier going up and down the tree when adjusting the cinch knot as it holds its shape really well and doen't snag on the bark. I'ts outer shell weave is rougher than most and this I find does 2 things really well. it holds knots in place as the weave "locks" into each other and it really grips the prusik solid when compared to other rope. I also forgot to mention while climbing and hooking up always wear a Lineman's belt until you are secured in the tree. I'm going to get an extra Assault rope/prusik from mts to use just for this purpose! 
Hey Kevin, are you having the ropes made local or by BMO? Can custom lengths be ordered say....8' instead of 6'?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Yes, the Assault Line is great stuff. Yes, I will be able to have custom lengths. It might be a couple of weeks to get everything arranged. 
Not BMO, but their supplier. 
Oh yeah...


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

Sure enjoyed the video. Thanks


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## tdrouin (Dec 1, 2011)

Well i just got my web in this past thursday. I went try it out on some public land around my house. I wanted to see if it was comfortable enough to make an all day hunt and it is one of the most comfortable stands i have ever owned. I got in the stand at 5 45 AM and ended up shooting a 120 lb spike at 5 00 PM. I would like to thank everyone on this thread for helping me understand how to correctly and safely use the guido's web. Also thanks MTS for all the equipment, it works perfect!! Sorry i dont have pics. I havent figured how to do that yet.


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

Congrats. I am right behind you but have to wait until this Friday to try the "new" stuff. Pretty excited.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

tdrouin said:


> Well i just got my web in this past thursday. I went try it out on some public land around my house. I wanted to see if it was comfortable enough to make an all day hunt and it is one of the most comfortable stands i have ever owned. I got in the stand at 5 45 AM and ended up shooting a 120 lb spike at 5 00 PM. I would like to thank everyone on this thread for helping me understand how to correctly and safely use the guido's web. Also thanks MTS for all the equipment, it works perfect!! Sorry i dont have pics. I havent figured how to do that yet.


Nice job. If you want to email me pics of your buck, I will post them. I will PM you my email.


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## MartinTracer (Jan 5, 2005)

Blue Hunter, what are you using for strap on steps for the platform?


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## bowhuntnsteve (Jul 1, 2006)

I am sooo going to have to find time and review this thread and others so then I can go this setup for next season and practice all summer minus the skeeters!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Hey Guys, I should have some more rope and prusik by Thursday. Hopefully, I will be caught up on orders by Friday. Thanks for your patience.
Kevin


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

MartinTracer said:


> Blue Hunter, what are you using for strap on steps for the platform?


I use a Lone Wolf Assasin for my platform. It works really well, locks solid to the tree, is dead silent, and carries inside my WEB until I get to my tree. It's expensive ($240) but I love the stability of the platform and can pivot around the tree silently without making noise like no other. I like to set up and take down every time. The LW really shines when using this method.


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## Tater12 (Feb 7, 2004)

I kind of like using this grab handle made by cranford.









I shot a doe out of my web yesterday afternoon on my first hunt out of it. I hit her back a little decided to let her lay overnight the yotes got her. 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.742737,-88.111734


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Sorry about the coyotes. I like all of Cranford's stuff. Made here in NC.


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## lc12 (Jul 30, 2009)

mtsrunner said:


> Hey Guys, I should have some more rope and prusik by Thursday. Hopefully, I will be caught up on orders by Friday. Thanks for your patience.
> Kevin


Hey guys, you will not be disappointed with Kevin's rope slings!
I ordered a larger than normal one from him (I hunt in some BIG trees) and he got it to me very quickly.
Nice knots and good quality rope!
Thanks Kevin!!!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

lc12 said:


> Hey guys, you will not be disappointed with Kevin's rope slings!
> I ordered a larger than normal one from him (I hunt in some BIG trees) and he got it to me very quickly.
> Nice knots and good quality rope!
> Thanks Kevin!!!


Thanks Lonnie, glad you like it. I have gotten a little bit behind on orders. Thanks for everyone's patience. 
Kevin


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

Blue Hunter said:


> I use a Lone Wolf Assasin for my platform. It works really well, locks solid to the tree, is dead silent, and carries inside my WEB until I get to my tree. It's expensive ($240) but I love the stability of the platform and can pivot around the tree silently without making noise like no other. I like to set up and take down every time. The LW really shines when using this method.


I agree


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Rigs will ship tomorrow!*

I have caught up on all my rope/prusik and bridge orders. Thanks for your patience, everyone. I am still looking for ways to improve the products, so let me know if you have suggestions. 
Thanks,
Kevin


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## paidin (Nov 15, 2011)

mtsrunner said:


> I have caught up on all my rope/prusik and bridge orders. Thanks for your patience, everyone. I am still looking for ways to improve the products, so let me know if you have suggestions.
> Thanks,
> Kevin


I tried sending you a PM but I am not sure it worked. Please let me know if you got it 

Thanks!


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mtsrunner said:


> I have caught up on all my rope/prusik and bridge orders. Thanks for your patience, everyone. I am still looking for ways to improve the products, so let me know if you have suggestions.
> Thanks,
> Kevin


Tthought today possibly about a smaller diameter rope with a smaller diameter prusik 6mm for a lightweight linemans belt? It could be girth hitched to one of the bottom attatchment points on the WEB with a biner on the other. Possibly size wise of a Lone Wolf rope/prusik but with better material (Bluewater)? Light and quiet. Strength wise 8mm prusik(2500 lbs) compared to the 6mm prusik(2200 lbs) = 300lbs non issue w/ no metal to clank cept for biner. Not sure what smallest size rope would work with the 6mm prusik....have to check?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Tthought today possibly about a smaller diameter rope with a smaller diameter prusik 6mm for a lightweight linemans belt? It could be girth hitched to one of the bottom attatchment points on the WEB with a biner on the other. Possibly size wise of a Lone Wolf rope/prusik but with better material (Bluewater)? Light and quiet. Strength wise 8mm prusik(2500 lbs) compared to the 6mm prusik(2200 lbs) = 300lbs non issue w/ no metal to clank cept for biner. Not sure what smallest size rope would work with the 6mm prusik....have to check?


Rob,
It could work, but there are several factors to consider. 

First, I am not sure about the 300 lbs being a non-issue. Most climbing/rescue authorities like to maintain a 10:1 safety factor for breaking strength: working load limit. 
here is a quote that I will plagiarize from the web:

_"Technical team students learned early on in the academy that there should never be any less than a 10-to-1 ratio between the weight -- or more accurately the force -- of the load (which is the "1") and the load capacity of the system (the "10"). In other words, if there's a single person going over the edge, and that person weighs one kiloNewton (kN) -- about 225 pounds -- then you want the load-bearing capacity of the weakest link in the system of rope/s, carabiners, anchors, pulleys, etc. to be no less than 10kN or 2,250 pounds."_

The prusiks that I have been using are all rated at or above 2888 ft.lbs and I have insisted that they be backed up by hooking the 'biner through the little loop in the mainline, which is rated at 7194 ft.lbs. 

To answer your question about the 6mm prusik and the LW lineman's belt. I would say that (if you feel safe with it), a 6 or 6.5 mm prusik would work with a rope of the same diameter as the LW rope. The Lone Wolf supplied rope is 9.8mm (3/8"). 

The rule of thumb for ratio of mainline to prusik difference is about 60-70%. 
Taking 65% as an average: 
9.8mm x 65% = 6.37mm. 
Therefore, a 6 or 6.5 mm prusik should grip the rope just fine. 

The question remains, have you figured out a way to back up the prusik, or is it the only thing that will be keeping you tethered to the tree as you climb? And yes, I realize that most people 'free-climb' their stick without being attached in any manner. I just don't feel safe doing that.

Does that help?


----------



## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Great info Kevin,

This is kinda what I was envisioning for a lightweight linemans belt. I included an xtra biner (attatched to big loop) in the picture but could easily be girth hitched to the WEB. This is a LW set up (3/8") with the sewn ends, which the small loop would serve as back up hooked back into the biner as backup for the prusik. Only thing I don't like is the Prusik on The LW which is only tied with an overhand knot (not sure about the strength rating though)? Would rather see a sewn Prusik loop with kn rating myself to be sure. 

Thanks,

Rob


----------



## adawg (Aug 16, 2009)

I hunted yesterday for the first time with Kevin's (mtsrunner) rope and prusik set-up and I was really impressed at how much easier I was able to move around the tree. I thought adjusting the drape would be very difficult, but with a little practice you easily learn how to loosen the prusik to make adjustments. This will now become my main means of hanging. 

P.S. Kevin, can you send me a price on a longer mainline for some of my bigger diameter trees. Thanks.


----------



## dandbuck (Jan 11, 2007)

I was wondering where you guys are getting your american made biners??? Also, Kevin, take a look at my TS spanner mod I have posted in the DIY section and let me know your thoughts. ANyone else too. I may have to make a couple and send them to a couple guys to try them out.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

dandbuck said:


> I was wondering where you guys are getting your american made biners??? Also, Kevin, take a look at my TS spanner mod I have posted in the DIY section and let me know your thoughts. ANyone else too. I may have to make a couple and send them to a couple guys to try them out.


Check www.rockexotica.com or www.blackdiamondequipment.com Can't really go wrong with either.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Great info Kevin,
> 
> This is kinda what I was envisioning for a lightweight linemans belt. I included an xtra biner (attatched to big loop) in the picture but could easily be girth hitched to the WEB. This is a LW set up (3/8") with the sewn ends, which the small loop would serve as back up hooked back into the biner as backup for the prusik. Only thing I don't like is the Prusik on The LW which is only tied with an overhand knot (not sure about the strength rating though)? Would rather see a sewn Prusik loop with kn rating myself to be sure.
> 
> ...


Rob,
That looks good except the prusik, like you said. I thought about that today and made up a couple of those using BlueWater 3/8" line with BlueWater 6.5mm dynamic prusik. Total working length is 8'+, which is over 2' longer than that LW rope. I don't think I would use them for my hunting tether, but they will be nice for the lineman's belt. I do like the sewn ends. They look real tidy.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

adawg said:


> I hunted yesterday for the first time with Kevin's (mtsrunner) rope and prusik set-up and I was really impressed at how much easier I was able to move around the tree. I thought adjusting the drape would be very difficult, but with a little practice you easily learn how to loosen the prusik to make adjustments. This will now become my main means of hanging.
> 
> P.S. Kevin, can you send me a price on a longer mainline for some of my bigger diameter trees. Thanks.


PM sent.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mtsrunner said:


> Rob,
> That looks good except the prusik, like you said. I thought about that today and made up a couple of those using BlueWater 3/8" line with BlueWater 6.5mm dynamic prusik. Total working length is 8'+, which is over 2' longer than that LW rope. I don't think I would use them for my hunting tether, but they will be nice for the lineman's belt. I do like the sewn ends. They look real tidy.


Sweet! That's what I was hoping for. I'll be ordering one from you soon. Can you post a picture? Thanks, Rob


----------



## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

dandbuck said:


> I was wondering where you guys are getting your american made biners??? Also, Kevin, take a look at my TS spanner mod I have posted in the DIY section and let me know your thoughts. ANyone else too. I may have to make a couple and send them to a couple guys to try them out.


dandbuck,
I love the idea of the spanner. I have tried similar with mine in the past. My main concern is the stress on the TS D-rings. They seem to be sewn in such a manner that they can take a lot of pressure when pulled parallel to the loop, but NOT in any other direction. I ruined one of my Ambush saddles with a similar project. I was actually trying to make a secondary bridge that would take pressure off of my hips and it ripped the d-ring away from the main saddle belt! Luckily, I was doing this at ground level.

I am in no way trying to criticize. I am as big of a DIY nerd as anyone. I just wanted to share my experience. 

I will post this in your DIY thread in case you don't check back.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Sweet! That's what I was hoping for. I'll be ordering one from you soon. Can you post a picture? Thanks, Rob


Rob,
Here is a pic of the 'lineman's belt' next to my regular Tree Tether rig. The lineman's belt has 3/8" Static Blue Water (I don't think they make this one anymore) with a Blue Water 6.5 mm dynamic prusik. 
I only had enough rope to make three of these. They ended up with over 8' of 'working length' (loop to loop). Both ends are tied with a figure 8 follow-through, so you don't have to worry about which end is which. 
Just like the tree tether, I demand that you use the prusik as your adjuster and the loops as your lifeline, even when set up as a lineman's belt. 
Twenty bucks tyd.
Kevin


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*Inbox cleared out, sorry*

Sorry guys, I let my inbox fill up again.
should be good to go now, if there are any questions/orders.
Kevin


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mtsrunner said:


> Rob,
> Here is a pic of the 'lineman's belt' next to my regular Tree Tether rig. The lineman's belt has 3/8" Static Blue Water (I don't think they make this one anymore) with a Blue Water 6.5 mm dynamic prusik.
> I only had enough rope to make three of these. They ended up with over 8' of 'working length' (loop to loop). Both ends are tied with a figure 8 follow-through, so you don't have to worry about which end is which.
> Just like the tree tether, I demand that you use the prusik as your adjuster and the loops as your lifeline, even when set up as a lineman's belt.
> ...


Thanks Kevin,

Looks top quality as usual! PM sent.


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## dandbuck (Jan 11, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Check www.rockexotica.com or www.blackdiamondequipment.com Can't really go wrong with either.


Black Diamond is showing up as an import. Where can you buy the rockexotica?


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

You can order RE right from their site. Black Diamond is a USA company. They do not outsource, they do however have different locations across the globe as rockclimbing is big overseas and do some of their work not in the US if this makes sense? I spoke to them about this recently and asked the same question. They assured me their biners are a USA product.


dandbuck said:


> Black Diamond is showing up as an import. Where can you buy the rockexotica?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*They lied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



Blue Hunter said:


> You can order RE right from their site. Black Diamond is a USA company. They do not outsource, they do however have different locations across the globe as rockclimbing is big overseas and do some of their work not in the US if this makes sense? I spoke to them about this recently and asked the same question. They assured me their biners are a USA product.


As Rob knows, Black Diamond carabiners were probably my favorite for sling hunting (TS and GW). My two personal favorites were a BD RockLock and BD Mini-Pearbiner. 
Both of mine were beat to death, so I ordered new ones this week. I just got them today and they are both clearly labeled *made in China!*

Now mtsrunner is angry!

If you guys are looking for good carabiners for sling hunting, I would definitely check out Rock Exotica, they are definitely USA.


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

Ahh man....I'm super bummed! My apologies guys! Hey Kevin, just curious... do the new ones still have the Black Diamond *USA* stamped into them?


mtsrunner said:


> As Rob knows, Black Diamond carabiners were probably my favorite for sling hunting (TS and GW). My two personal favorites were a BD RockLock and BD Mini-Pearbiner.
> Both of mine were beat to death, so I ordered new ones this week. I just got them today and they are both clearly labeled *made in China!*
> 
> Now mtsrunner is angry!
> ...


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I like double locking carabiners, but I did get some of the screw gate carabiners as pictured above and they are pretty good. Once you screw the sleeve up and give it a little snug twist it seems to be very secure. I am sure that if it rubs hard enough on something it could be loosened but it would take quite a bit of rubbing to totally unscrew the sleeve to the point that the gate could open.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

jim p said:


> I like double locking carabiners, but I did get some of the screw gate carabiners as pictured above and they are pretty good. Once you screw the sleeve up and give it a little snug twist it seems to be very secure. I am sure that if it rubs hard enough on something it could be loosened but it would take quite a bit of rubbing to totally unscrew the sleeve to the point that the gate could open.


I like the screw gate for use with the Web or TS. I actually screw it down to where it just barely stops. I figure that I am not going to do anything that will cause it to open. I don't crank it down real tight because I have always had the thought in the back of my mind that if it might freeze shut and I wouldn't be able to get it off. I am sure that is absolutely crazy, but that is the kind of stuff I think of while I am waiting for Old Mossy Horns to show up.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Blue Hunter said:


> Ahh man....I'm super bummed! My apologies guys! Hey Kevin, just curious... do the new ones still have the Black Diamond *USA* stamped into them?


Yes, it is still stamped in there, but not as deep of a stamp as the old ones. It looks like you could scratch it off with you fingernail. I am sure that they are still safe, but I am still disappointed. I was thinking about Metolius, but it looks like theirs are made overseas, as well. 
I have some Rock Exotica's ordered, but they are back-ordered. I guess I will continue to use my old USA made BD mini-pearbiner. If it doesn't stop raining I am going to quit building rope/prusik rigs and start on my Arc.


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## meyerske (Dec 26, 2004)

Nice work, Kevin. Why do we wax the bridge?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

meyerske said:


> Nice work, Kevin. Why do we wax the bridge?


It keeps the friction down, therefore allowing the carabiner to slide easier and also extends the life of the material by preventing fraying. Another benefit is that if it is raining or foggy, the wax will provide a water barrier to the nylon.


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## Hoythews71 (Sep 22, 2010)

What is everyone using for a pack? I always sweat on my way in, so I have to dress very light and change at the tree, plus I have to hang my set and sometimes trim lanes as well. Id like to fit all/most of my clothes into my pack, attach my 4 Lone Wolf sticks to the pack vertically (prefer to attach them to the side of the pack), and attach my Lone Wolf Assassin somewhere also. Carrying the bow is fine. I also carry some other necessities, but nothing over the top.

Theres really no useful external attachments on my current pack, so I was thinking Id either customize it, or get something else. Was thinking maybe a Horn Hunter G2 Daypack, an Eberlestock X2?

What would you guys recommend?


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## Tater12 (Feb 7, 2004)

Hoythews71 said:


> What is everyone using for a pack? I always sweat on my way in, so I have to dress very light and change at the tree, plus I have to hang my set and sometimes trim lanes as well. Id like to fit all/most of my clothes into my pack, attach my 4 Lone Wolf sticks to the pack vertically (prefer to attach them to the side of the pack), and attach my Lone Wolf Assassin somewhere also. Carrying the bow is fine. I also carry some other necessities, but nothing over the top.
> 
> Theres really no useful external attachments on my current pack, so I was thinking Id either customize it, or get something else. Was thinking maybe a Horn Hunter G2 Daypack, an Eberlestock X2?
> 
> What would you guys recommend?


I am still trying to perfect my system. I am Carrying a badlands 2200 I can strap clothes and sticks to it. I wanted something where I could have a few items close at hand while setting up. I attached a molle pouch to the right side of my web I keep a tree saw steps and screw in hooks in there. 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.238607,-91.082931


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks MTSHUNTER!

Kevin, excellent work! I am more than satisfied. Will give it a run tomorrow.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

johnmikerva said:


> Thanks MTSHUNTER!
> 
> Kevin, excellent work! I am more than satisfied. Will give it a run tomorrow.


Glad you like the rig. I am already behind again. Thanks everyone, I will catch up in the next couple of days.


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

Hoythews71 said:


> What is everyone using for a pack? I always sweat on my way in, so I have to dress very light and change at the tree, plus I have to hang my set and sometimes trim lanes as well. Id like to fit all/most of my clothes into my pack, attach my 4 Lone Wolf sticks to the pack vertically (prefer to attach them to the side of the pack), and attach my Lone Wolf Assassin somewhere also. Carrying the bow is fine. I also carry some other necessities, but nothing over the top.
> 
> Theres really no useful external attachments on my current pack, so I was thinking Id either customize it, or get something else. Was thinking maybe a Horn Hunter G2 Daypack, an Eberlestock X2?
> 
> What would you guys recommend?


Hey guys, "two cents here" (which in my situation applies to TrophyLine harness & stick carrying):

http://www.eberlestock.com/Tailhook.htm Sticks go where bow is shown. Rugged setup. They also used to make the "Slingshot." ~ A slightly smaller version of the Tailhook, which is a bit small (but workable) IMHO. ~ I got the tip last year from another A/T member who is in his 50's.) Watch the picture for a few seconds and it switches to show how the bow is held in the rear pouch.


Also, another (alternate) neat trick for carrying sticks is this $10 item from Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GTNAXE Just add a bungee to strap the sticks together tightly, and the whole thing works quite nicely. Comfortable shoulder strap which can handle maybe up to 20lbs without problem!​


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## dandbuck (Jan 11, 2007)

Hoythews71 said:


> What is everyone using for a pack? I always sweat on my way in, so I have to dress very light and change at the tree, plus I have to hang my set and sometimes trim lanes as well. Id like to fit all/most of my clothes into my pack, attach my 4 Lone Wolf sticks to the pack vertically (prefer to attach them to the side of the pack), and attach my Lone Wolf Assassin somewhere also. Carrying the bow is fine. I also carry some other necessities, but nothing over the top.
> 
> Theres really no useful external attachments on my current pack, so I was thinking Id either customize it, or get something else. Was thinking maybe a Horn Hunter G2 Daypack, an Eberlestock X2?
> 
> What would you guys recommend?


I actually have been using a "Blind Hog" pack that has worked very well.


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## Hoythews71 (Sep 22, 2010)

BrokenLimbs said:


> Hey guys, "two cents here" (which in my situation applies to TrophyLine harness & stick carrying):
> 
> http://www.eberlestock.com/Tailhook.htm Sticks go where bow is shown. Rugged setup. They also used to make the "Slingshot." ~ A slightly smaller version of the Tailhook, which is a bit small (but workable) IMHO. ~ I got the tip last year from another A/T member who is in his 50's.) Watch the picture for a few seconds and it switches to show how the bow is held in the rear pouch.
> 
> ...


I bought a few buckle straps that I use to attach all 4 sticks and my Assassin platfom to each other, and I use a duffel bag strap with a pad. Just sling it over my shoulder and go, but its still very awkward, and carrying the added weight makes me sweat. If I could attach them to a good quality pack that will distribute the load, I think Id stay a lot cooler.

I was looking at the Tailhook as my primary pack when I hunt out of a prehung stand, but I dont think theres enough room to fit clothes inside. I dont WANT a bigger pack, but Im thinking it might be necessary in order to stay comfortable by not sweating before I sit still in the cold for a few hours! Thats why I was leaning towards the G2. Same external attachments as the tailhook, plus a few extras, and the added room for clothes. The X2 is borderline too big I think. Customizing my cerrent pack is still an option as well.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*I took a deep breath this morning...*

I went to bed mad last night, which is dumb. I was feeling sorry for myself because of some stuff at work. Plus, I had a car wreck this week (my fault) and both of my kids are having to suffer due to poor coaching/political ties in a small town. 

*Well, I made my coffee and stepped out on my back deck this morning and God reminded me that I don't have it so bad. * 

I'm 42 and still need to often be reminded how lucky I am. 

I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.

That is Mt. Pisgah in the background above the clouds and fog. 17 miles from my door to the top. Pretty cool.


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## Hoythews71 (Sep 22, 2010)

Pretty amazing view you have there! I sure do miss living in the country. But, duty calls, and I go where the military sends me. NE Illinois for the time being, but Ill probably be back in Norfolk, VA in the next few years. Keep telling myself theres only 11 more years of this, then I can retire from the Navy with a full pension at 38, get a job in my field of choice, get back to the country, and have a normal life with my wife and son.


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

mtsrunner said:


> I went to bed mad last night, which is dumb. I was feeling sorry for myself because of some stuff at work. Plus, I had a car wreck this week (my fault) and both of my kids are having to suffer due to poor coaching/political ties in a small town.
> 
> *Well, I made my coffee and stepped out on my back deck this morning and God reminded me that I don't have it so bad. *
> 
> ...


God does have wonderful "sticky notes"for us. What an awesome picture! The author is pretty amazing!


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Hoythews71 said:


> Pretty amazing view you have there! I sure do miss living in the country. But, duty calls, and I go where the military sends me. NE Illinois for the time being, but Ill probably be back in Norfolk, VA in the next few years. Keep telling myself theres only 11 more years of this, then I can retire from the Navy with a full pension at 38, get a job in my field of choice, get back to the country, and have a normal life with my wife and son.


Thanks for your service. I work with a guy who did exactly what your plan is. He is in his early forties and is probably only going to work until he is 50 and then fully retire. If you can stick it out, I think you will really be glad you did. I'm 42 next week and am having to look at a second mortgage. I made $30K less this year than I did last year and my benefits went down, too. Just added my 16 year old to our car insurance, which is not cheap.


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## dwaters416 (Jun 3, 2008)

I know this sounds crazy but when we go through hard times in our lives we need to consider it a blessing. The difficult times is the fire God let's us go through to forge us and make us stronger for the road ahead. Keep your head up and reminder I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Merry CHRISTmas. 

Ps : the rig and the bridge I got from you are absolute awesome


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

dwaters416 said:


> I know this sounds crazy but when we go through hard times in our lives we need to consider it a blessing. The difficult times is the fire God let's us go through to forge us and make us stronger for the road ahead. Keep your head up and reminder I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Merry CHRISTmas.
> 
> Ps : the rig and the bridge I got from you are absolute awesome


Agree with the above. Will be using tomorrow


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## Blue Hunter (Jan 8, 2005)

mtsrunner said:


> I went to bed mad last night, which is dumb. I was feeling sorry for myself because of some stuff at work. Plus, I had a car wreck this week (my fault) and both of my kids are having to suffer due to poor coaching/political ties in a small town.
> 
> *Well, I made my coffee and stepped out on my back deck this morning and God reminded me that I don't have it so bad. *
> 
> ...


Kevin,
Amazing picture! Dude I just turned 47 and I'm convinced better things are ahead! It's been 2 years now since my family and I were forced from our home in the midwest due to threats on our lives being associated with law enforcement. Came back to our home state and NObody would rent to us with all the kids and dogs, couldn't understand, but someONE was watching over us the whole time as we now can attest. Things have worked out for us and we had no Idea at the time. There is a BIGGER plan and sometimes.... actually most of the time we just can't see it. Very cool.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

He drags us through troubled waters not to drown us, but to cleanse us.

Thanks for all the nice words, guys.


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## ncorry (Mar 30, 2011)

Well, hell. Thanks to this thread, I'm likely another $450 ion the hole. $300 to Guido, $100+ to some guy named Buster Greenway, and more on ropes and bridges and such.


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## Hoythews71 (Sep 22, 2010)

mtsrunner said:


> Thanks for your service. I work with a guy who did exactly what your plan is. He is in his early forties and is probably only going to work until he is 50 and then fully retire. If you can stick it out, I think you will really be glad you did. I'm 42 next week and am having to look at a second mortgage. I made $30K less this year than I did last year and my benefits went down, too. Just added my 16 year old to our car insurance, which is not cheap.


Thanks Kevin. Never really know what to say when someone tells me thank you for your service. Its just a job to me after 9 years. Many times Id rather be doing something different, but we all have our niche, and this on happens to be mine.

Everyone goes through struggles with finances and even life in general. We have a happy family, but money is tight because were a single income home. Luckily benefits are covered. Everything comes and goes in cycles. You may be down now, but give it a few months, and the good guys that put in the effort always bounce back!


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## mejer (Jul 24, 2010)

Well I used the only benefit of being single this time of the year. And ordered my web last Friday, it was made on Tuesday shipped Tuesday afternoon. And on my doorstep today. Merry Christmas to me. Now I am going to use the rig and bridge tomorrow afternoon and hunt out of my new web. Then in the evening to my son's house for christmas with my granddaughter. she just turned two.

I think I have it made now.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

mejer said:


> Well I used the only benefit of being single this time of the year. And ordered my web last Friday, it was made on Tuesday shipped Tuesday afternoon. And on my doorstep today. Merry Christmas to me. Now I am going to use the rig and bridge tomorrow afternoon and hunt out of my new web. Then in the evening to my son's house for christmas with my granddaughter. she just turned two.
> 
> I think I have it made now.


Don't forget to post a picture of your buck tomorrow!


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm holding out on a Guidos Web. (Seriously considering it though for next season.)

I presently own two TrophyLine saddles, and hunt out of them literally hundreds of hours each fall.
*But after finding this thread (the bridge modification thing) I am seriously thinking about one for next season.*

I'm actually quite comfortable hunting from the saddle, and have even fallen asleep standing in in numerous times in the AM. But I would like the benefit of occasionally sitting down and totally relaxing with back support.

*What I don't like about the web is the need to use it as my backpack.* I *wish there was an ultra-light version of Guidos Web* that could somehow be used (with my existing pack, just like the saddle)..... Stuff saddle inside, & put sticks on back....

(Although I'm thinking about *using the web without sticks* and climbing as shown here): http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1626624


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## phantom1 (Dec 14, 2004)

Broken Limbs, I have wondered about a lighter version of the web too. Since they are a small company and are hand made here in the states(I think), how about asking them if they could try making a light weight mesh type version? With Trophyline's not being available, it would be the perfect time for Guido's to try and get that market share....


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

phantom1 said:


> Broken Limbs, I have wondered about a lighter version of the web too. Since they are a small company and are hand made here in the states(I think), how about asking them if they could try making a light weight mesh type version? With Trophyline's not being available, it would be the perfect time for Guido's to try and get that market share....


Agreed... I will contact them after the holidays!


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

I wanted to share an idea I had (probably been done before), that I have decided to implement into my new Guido's Web trad bow 2012 setup. As I've said before, I'm VERY serious about drastically streamlining the amount of "stuff" I take to the woods. This fly fishing vest will be relacing the back pack I used to carry. 

Specifically, the reason I chose this is because mostly everything is accessible from the front. I'm VERY luck to have found THIS vest, for next to nothing! Since the GW back support goes up the back, I theorized that this would not only be very convient, but comfortable as well. I can fit EVERYTHING I need to take with me bowhunting with trad equipment, in the GW, either in the GW, the vest, or in the cargo pockets of my hunting pants. My tripod I will store at the base of my tree, covered with leaves as I've always done. 

I seriously considered using my turkey vest, but like the fly fishing vest pocket orientation better. So I don't know if this will help anyone, but I wanted to share the idea. I will be purchasing the GW, & all new HD camera gear next month, so stay tuned... Merry Christmas, & Happy New Year.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*I have one coming...*



BrokenLimbs said:


> I'm holding out on a Guidos Web. (Seriously considering it though for next season.)
> 
> I presently own two TrophyLine saddles, and hunt out of them literally hundreds of hours each fall.
> *But after finding this thread (the bridge modification thing) I am seriously thinking about one for next season.*
> ...



I hope I can fill this void. I formed an LLC about a month ago and I have started the process of proto-typing a treestand that will fill the void between the TS and the GW. I have thought about this for years, but I am finally ready to pursue it. I have no idea how long it will take, but my goal is to have the first iteration ready for testing in a couple of months. 

I have been given the cold shoulder by the TMA, so far. As in, they don't even return my e-mail asking for some guidance. 

I am having some of the fabrication done by a company that specializes in equipping the Search and Rescue, Fire, and Tactical Operations industries. Their standards are probably much more stringent than TMA, anyway. 

I don't want to give away too much of the features/benefits of my stand, but I will say that if you deer hunt, turkey hunt, duck hunt and predator hunt, my stand is all you will need. Kind of like a M.O.L.L.E. pack for hunters, but with a comfy seat integrated. However, if you prefer to use your own pack, my stand will have a modular attachment, so you can really go minimal (aka the TS) and add just what you need. In other words, you can add the seat-back/back-pack if you want it, or leave it at home. 

Please wish me luck in this endeavor, because I am trying to do this, work my regular job and spend time with my family. I want it to be fun and a blessing, not a burden. 

Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Kevin


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

Good luck bro. Hope it works out for you. Keep us posted I was thinking about getting a GW before next season. I would prefer a little version.


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## mejer (Jul 24, 2010)

Best of luck Kevin,
If your new stand is built with the quaility of your bridges, mainlines, and pursik knots you will have a top notch stand. And if you ship in the time line you have been doing with the other stuff, I think you just might be onto something great.


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## Tater12 (Feb 7, 2004)

mtsrunner said:


> I hope I can fill this void. I formed an LLC about a month ago and I have started the process of proto-typing a treestand that will fill the void between the TS and the GW. I have thought about this for years, but I am finally ready to pursue it. I have no idea how long it will take, but my goal is to have the first iteration ready for testing in a couple of months.
> 
> I have been given the cold shoulder by the TMA, so far. As in, they don't even return my e-mail asking for some guidance.
> 
> ...


Sounds great! Good luck. By the way love my linesman belt. 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.389597,-91.241693


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

cbigbear said:


> Good luck bro. Hope it works out for you. Keep us posted I was thinking about getting a GW before next season. I would prefer a little version.


This should be lighter version not little version.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Thanks guys. My version, if I can make it like I envision, will be lighter than GW. I hesitate to give a target weight, because I don't have a prototype, yet. I won't bring something to market if it weighs as much as GW, because we already have that and it is a really darn good stand. I want to fill the niche left by the Tree Saddle, but without the need for kneepads and a bunch of straps and buckles. I think I can do that and also give you something more comfortable than you can imagine. It is not going to be easy, but I am truly committed to give it my best shot.


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## lnevett (Apr 9, 2006)

mtsrunner said:


> Thanks guys. My version, if I can make it like I envision, will be lighter than GW. I hesitate to give a target weight, because I don't have a prototype, yet. I won't bring something to market if it weighs as much as GW, because we already have that and it is a really darn good stand. I want to fill the niche left by the Tree Saddle, but without the need for kneepads and a bunch of straps and buckles. I think I can do that and also give you something more comfortable than you can imagine. It is not going to be easy, but I am truly committed to give it my best shot.


I am sure a lot of people are going to be watching and waiting for your product, Hope it turn out all good.


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

I want to be a product tester! :wink:


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## 8talltines (Nov 8, 2011)

mtsrunner said:


> I hope I can fill this void. I formed an LLC about a month ago and I have started the process of proto-typing a treestand that will fill the void between the TS and the GW. I have thought about this for years, but I am finally ready to pursue it. I have no idea how long it will take, but my goal is to have the first iteration ready for testing in a couple of months.
> 
> I have been given the cold shoulder by the TMA, so far. As in, they don't even return my e-mail asking for some guidance.
> 
> ...


I want to own the first one...
Good luck Kevin!! I have been using the rope and prusik and I love it. Keep us up to date on your progress.
Merry Xmas, Sal


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## phantom1 (Dec 14, 2004)

X 2! I hope someone can pull it off. The light weight of an Ambush Saddle with the presumed comfort of a Web....yep, I'm for it. Maybe, even something to add on the saddle to have a backrest and a strut to push the hunter off the tree. If the strut could fold away for the shot or just hunter movement, might be a plus too.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

phantom1 said:


> X 2! I hope someone can pull it off. The light weight of an Ambush Saddle with the presumed comfort of a Web....yep, I'm for it. Maybe, even something to add on the saddle to have a backrest and a strut to push the hunter off the tree. If the strut could fold away for the shot or just hunter movement, might be a plus too.


Yep, everything you just asked for and dozens of features/benefits that you haven't mentioned. It's all in the works. 
I don't want to give away too much, but how about a back rest that is adjustable and removable depending on if you want to archery hunt or the extra comfort/support for gun hunting? How about lashing straps for climbing sticks? How about a built-in solution to raise your bow/pack? How about being able to change the camo-scheme depending on the season?
*
IT'S ALL GOING TO BE INCLUDED. *
My goal is that there will be no threads on Archery Talk about how someone modified this product to be more effective. 

Thanks for the encouragement.
Kevin


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

Oh, I am waiting for this! Can't wait.


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

You have come up with the prefect stand. When do you think production will start? Where do I sign up for product testing?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

cbigbear said:


> You have come up with the prefect stand. When do you think production will start? Where do I sign up for product testing?


I am still looking for the right facilities to help me with the manufacturing. I hesitate to give any timeline. The biggest factor is that I can't quit my full-time job. I can only sporadically put time in to this project. I thought that I had found a company to help with much of the project, but the owner has not been good at communicating since my inital conversations. I have about given up on them and will look for others. That has been disappointing, since the owner is a friend of my sister's and their facilities were within driving fairly easy driving distance. 
I do have a name for the stand and the company, but I am going to wait to announce it until I get the TradeMark and the website.


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## johnmikerva (Jan 5, 2009)

*Thanks Kevin!*








My Christmas eve buck. Oh, the saddle rocks indeed! Thank you Kevin my new system was flawless. I almost didn't think it would happen this year.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

johnmikerva said:


> View attachment 1238414
> 
> My Christmas eve buck. Oh, the saddle rocks indeed! Thank you Kevin my new system was flawless. I almost didn't think it would happen this year.


Merry Christmas to you! Heckuva buck, there. I can't believe deer season is almost over. Glad you like the rope and prusik. 
Kevin


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## dandbuck (Jan 11, 2007)

mtsrunner said:


> Thanks guys. My version, if I can make it like I envision, will be lighter than GW. I hesitate to give a target weight, because I don't have a prototype, yet. I won't bring something to market if it weighs as much as GW, because we already have that and it is a really darn good stand. I want to fill the niche left by the Tree Saddle, but without the need for kneepads and a bunch of straps and buckles. I think I can do that and also give you something more comfortable than you can imagine. It is not going to be easy, but I am truly committed to give it my best shot.


Good Luck! I was wondering if there will be a "youth" version also, might be interested inthat too.


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## paidin (Nov 15, 2011)

mtsrunner said:


> Yep, everything you just asked for and dozens of features/benefits that you haven't mentioned. It's all in the works.
> I don't want to give away too much, but how about a back rest that is adjustable and removable depending on if you want to archery hunt or the extra comfort/support for gun hunting? How about lashing straps for climbing sticks? How about a built-in solution to raise your bow/pack? How about being able to change the camo-scheme depending on the season?
> *
> IT'S ALL GOING TO BE INCLUDED. *
> ...


I am in the market for a guido's web. Should I wait for yours or should I get a web? I am 5'6" 145 pounds, do you have someone in that size to test your design? I am not looking to get something for nothing, since I am ready to pay the $300 for the web, I am willing to pay your price for your design if you think it will be ready before next hunting season. Please let me know.

Thanks,
paidin


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

paidin said:


> I am in the market for a guido's web. Should I wait for yours or should I get a web? I am 5'6" 145 pounds, do you have someone in that size to test your design? I am not looking to get something for nothing, since I am ready to pay the $300 for the web, I am willing to pay your price for your design if you think it will be ready before next hunting season. Please let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> paidin


I sure hope it will be ready before next hunting season, but this is my first venture in fabrication, so I can't promise. As far as youth sizing or sizing for smaller adults, I can't definitely say at this point. My plan IS to have different sizes, but I will have to see how much that adds to my costs. 
I will do my best to keep everyone updated on my progress. Once I get a prototype, I should be able to better answer specific sizing questions. 
Thanks,
Kevin


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

dandbuck said:


> Good Luck! I was wondering if there will be a "youth" version also, might be interested inthat too.


Hopefully, I can pull that one off, too. No promises, but it is in my plans.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I am just wondering if you have a prototype. I have often wanted to make an individual item using straps but I thought that a heavy duty sewing machine would be required so I have never made anything along those lines. 

I have been hunting from a treesuit for several years and I like it but it is not as comfortable as I would like. The climbing platform that treesuit used to sale climbs fairly well after I modified it. But the climbing platform is heavy and bulky and gets in the way of everything when I am carrying it into the woods. So far I have not found any climbing sticks that I would trust myself to use. I just don't like the thought of the ladder slipping and the side of my leg getting scrapped on the step.

I love to tree climb using the double rope technique but the rope and gear weigh a good bit and the set up time is a little long for hunting. 

I am wishing you all the best with your product and I am looking forward to seeing the finished version.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Jim,
Sorry, no prototype, yet. Industrial sewing machine helps, but you can actually make one without it. My first attempt at a homemade sling was about 5 years ago. I used an old safety harness and took extra 2" webbing and connected everything with 2" metal 'tri-glides'. Next, I hand-sewed everything in place using a quilting needle and bowstring serving. I tethered to the the tree with a rope/prusik and carabiner just like I do now. It worked ok, but wasn't very comfortable and it looked ridiculous! I finally killed a buck out of it, then promptly retired it and ordered a Tree Saddle.




jim p said:


> I am just wondering if you have a prototype. I have often wanted to make an individual item using straps but I thought that a heavy duty sewing machine would be required so I have never made anything along those lines.
> 
> I have been hunting from a treesuit for several years and I like it but it is not as comfortable as I would like. The climbing platform that treesuit used to sale climbs fairly well after I modified it. But the climbing platform is heavy and bulky and gets in the way of everything when I am carrying it into the woods. So far I have not found any climbing sticks that I would trust myself to use. I just don't like the thought of the ladder slipping and the side of my leg getting scrapped on the step.
> 
> ...


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

You have taken it farther than me. Like you I was thinking that serving material might make a good thread for sewing. It will be nice having a replacement for the tree saddle.


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

Smart.....



mtsrunner said:


> Yep, everything you just asked for and dozens of features/benefits that you haven't mentioned. It's all in the works.
> I don't want to give away too much, but how about a back rest that is adjustable and removable depending on if you want to archery hunt or the extra comfort/support for gun hunting? How about lashing straps for climbing sticks? How about a built-in solution to raise your bow/pack? How about being able to change the camo-scheme depending on the season?
> *
> IT'S ALL GOING TO BE INCLUDED. *
> ...


& VERY Smart.....



mtsrunner said:


> I am still looking for the right facilities to help me with the manufacturing. I hesitate to give any timeline. The biggest factor is that I can't quit my full-time job. I can only sporadically put time in to this project. I thought that I had found a company to help with much of the project, but the owner has not been good at communicating since my inital conversations. I have about given up on them and will look for others. That has been disappointing, since the owner is a friend of my sister's and their facilities were within driving fairly easy driving distance.
> I do have a name for the stand and the company, but I am going to wait to announce it *until I get the TradeMark and the website.*


Just be cautious of "over-complicating", as sometimes "less is more."


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

BrokenLimbs said:


> Smart.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is why I am not going to rush to get it done, just to have it done. I am trying to have it very functional without too much 'stuff'. I am trying to multi-purpose as much of it as possible, like the way Blue Hunter used his leg strap buckles to double as a hip belt. 
I think once I get the first protoype in my hands, much of the accessorizing will fall in to place for future iterations. 
I want the first one that I make available to the public to be really good. I don't want my initial buyers to be remorseful a year later because I rushed an inferior product to market. 
Bear with me guys. It will be really good, or I won't do it.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*My favorite spot*

I got to spend a few days at the in-laws in TN. The weather was terrible with wind and rain until this morning, which was clear and cold. Unfortunately, the deer were already under my tree at dark-thirty this morning. They spooked and never came back. I did see a fox and about 40 turkeys. I just got back home and will hopefully get caught up on my rope/bridge orders tomorrow. 
Thanks Guys,
Kevin


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## tllhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Man do I know you, you sure look familiar?


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

tllhunter said:


> Man do I know you, you sure look familiar?


That depends...do I look like someone who owes you money?:angel: If so, it's definitely not me! 
I used to turkey hunt in Del Rio, TX with a bunch of Louisiana guys. PM me, maybe we can figure it out.
Kevin


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## wvboy (Sep 8, 2003)

mtsrunner,

I’ve been following this thread and am very interested in this type of hunting setup. 

I’ve just recently spent some time in the GW w/ bridge and thought I might offer up some suggestions that may help in your development of a new setup. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I have rock climbing experience and currently do part time arborist work so I have spent a fair amount of time hanging from ropes. Also, for what it’s worth, my go-to setup is a LW Assault, 2 LW sticks, a few screw-ins and a BD climbing harness. My comments might be slanted a bit towards a setup involving climbing sticks, but that represents a pretty big market out there.

-Packing sticks. Since a lot of hunters use climbing sticks, having a secure and quiet way to pack in a few sticks is a must. Slinging a bunch of bungeed sticks over your shoulder is a pain and very cumbersome. The rifle/bow carry feature available on some packs works pretty slick to carry a few sticks. 

-Thigh pinch. The standoff is a great feature, but on the bigger trees where your legs are splayed more, the thigh pinch from the straps is quite noticeable. Some of the bosun seats designs available on arborist saddles have addressed this by upturning the edges of the seat so the connect points for the webbing are higher up. Or do away with a hard seatpan and incorporate a standoff with something along the lines of NewTribe saddle design, which is one of the more comfy saddles to hang in.

-Low back support. The GW I borrowed was an older model and didn’t have much in the way of lower back support. I’m not sure if the newer ones are any different. Maybe incorporate a wide waist belt or use something along the lines of a CrazyCreek chair.

-Lighter weight. Everyone always wants a lighter setup. The GW is nearly the same weight as my hang-on stand and when you add in the extra weight required for the foot steps (I used 2 Stepp ladders) the GW setup becomes even heavier. Go lighter. 

Webbing straps. Optimize webbing runs for a cleaner design. 


Looking forward to seeing your setup. Btw, I'm available for product testing. :wink:


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## wvboy (Sep 8, 2003)

mtsrunner,

I’ve been following this thread and am very interested in this type of hunting setup. 

I’ve just recently spent some time in the GW w/ bridge and thought I might offer up some suggestions that may help in your development of a new setup. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I have rock climbing experience and currently do part time arborist work so I have spent a fair amount of time hanging from ropes. Also, for what it’s worth, my go-to setup is a LW Assault, 2 LW sticks, a few screw-ins and a BD climbing harness. My comments might be slanted a bit towards a setup involving climbing sticks, but that represents a pretty big market out there.

-Packing sticks. Since a lot of hunters use climbing sticks, having a secure and quiet way to pack in a few sticks is a must. Slinging a bunch of bungeed sticks over your shoulder is a pain and very cumbersome. The rifle/bow carry feature available on some packs works pretty slick to carry a few sticks. 

-Thigh pinch. The standoff is a great feature, but on the bigger trees where your legs are splayed more, the thigh pinch from the straps is quite noticeable. Some of the bosun seats designs available on arborist saddles have addressed this by upturning the edges of the seat so the connect points for the webbing are higher up. Or better yet, do away with a hard seatpan and incorporate a standoff with something along the lines of NewTribe saddle design, which is one of the more comfy saddles to hang in.

-Low back support. The GW I borrowed was an older model and didn’t have much in the way of lower back support. Maybe incorporate a wide waist belt or use something along the lines of a CrazyCreek chair.

-Lighter weight. Everyone always wants a lighter setup. The GW is nearly the same weight as my hang-on stand and when you add in the extra weight required for the foot steps (I used 2 Stepp ladders) the GW setup becomes even heavier. Go lighter. 

-Webbing straps. Optimize webbing runs for a cleaner design. 


Looking forward to seeing your setup. Btw, I'm available year round for product testing. :wink:


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## dandbuck (Jan 11, 2007)

After spending a little more time in my TS, i am looking forward to seeing your new design. Good Luck!


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## tdrouin (Dec 1, 2011)

Well MTS any new developments?


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## MAShadow (Nov 17, 2011)

Yes I'm interested too!

Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk


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## PK_IN_KC (Apr 12, 2011)

mtsrunner,

I was looking for one of your bridge connections.....PM me.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

wvboy said:


> mtsrunner,
> 
> I’ve been following this thread and am very interested in this type of hunting setup.
> 
> ...



All good suggestions, thanks.

I won't bring it out unless I can deal with the thigh pinch issue. I actually plan to use the webbing runs to help with this issue. 
I think I have a good way to incorporate climbing stick transports, but I need to see it on my prototype. 
Weight is a big deal to me, too. If mine isn't lighter than the GW, I will be disappointed. Again, I am still working on a facility to help with my prototype. I don't have any 'seed money', so I am having to be really judicious with this project. I can't afford to waist my own money. I am definitely going to 'measure twice, cut once'.


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

I just got my GW in the mail yesterday. I know that weight & "heavy" are relative terms, but I'm here to tell ya that thing is absolutely NOT heavy at all! I mean, it's super comfortable just on my back, can't wait to get in the tree with it. Video review to follow very soon.


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## MAShadow (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm going to get one soon. I hear people complaining about it weighing 10 pounds and think to myself that's nothing compared to my lock on and sticks! 

Has anyone tried the strap climbing technique that Solar41 introduced? That looks like the way to go! Very light weight and complete stealth you leave no evidence that you are even there.


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## wvboy (Sep 8, 2003)

MAShadow,

Not complaining about the GW weight. Just saying it's not a lighter setup when compared to some hang on setups. My "lock on" weighs roughly the same as the GW. However, with the GW you still have to carry the same number of sticks PLUS whatever you plan to use for your platform (screw-ins, multiple ameristeps on a strap, Stepp ladders, etc).


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## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

waiting4fall said:


> I just got my GW in the mail yesterday. I know that weight & "heavy" are relative terms, but I'm here to tell ya that thing is absolutely NOT heavy at all! I mean, it's super comfortable just on my back, can't wait to get in the tree with it. Video review to follow very soon.


Awesome. It would HAVE to be more comfortable than carrying my 25lb climber PLUS my pack that weights a solid 6lbs on my back LOL. I plan on getting one this spring.


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## BMH95 (Jan 6, 2012)

I hunted from my tree saddle this morning. I use it two different ways: 1 - Climbing sticks with foot pegs at the top. 2 - Climb to the top of a ladder stand and tie off above it. Either way, I stand rather than try to sit. There's a couple of reasons for that also, which have to do with keeping the blood flowing to the feet (warmth) better while standing, and it's much easier to rotate around the tree and get into shot position quickly. I'd not like to be rested up against the tree mainly for the lack of mobility that presents and because I can "move" slowly and silently while already in shooting position. The web looks interesting but I wouldn't want to sit. Too limiting for me.


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## ciscoman14 (Aug 9, 2005)

Great thread.......


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## Hook29 (Jul 13, 2009)

You don't have to sit in the web, just like you don't have to sit in the saddle. I have both, and if you do want to sit, the web wins hands down.


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## alexsupertramp (Jan 21, 2012)

mtsrunner,

i am interested in your bridge and rope set up for the GW. I sent you a PM.


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## alexsupertramp (Jan 21, 2012)

alexsupertramp said:


> mtsrunner,
> 
> i am interested in your bridge and rope set up for the GW. I sent you a PM.


Well, i mean i tried to send you a pm but i must not know how to do it! if you are still making and selling those systems (bridge and rope for GW), i am interested. can you pm me?


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)




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## alexsupertramp (Jan 21, 2012)

great video. thanks.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Nice video, Dave!


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## waiting4fall (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks man. I may want to experiment with one of you prussic knot setups.


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## gus1977 (Dec 28, 2011)

mtsrunner,

I am interested in one of your bridge rigs if you are still have them. This thread is the whole reason I got on archery talk. A buddy told me about it and here I am. So if you still have them? how do I go about getting in touch with you to get one?


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## wich (Mar 13, 2011)

mtsrunner, 

Tried to pm you about buying bridge, and rope/prusik rigs, but I dont think it worked. Can you pm me and let me know if you still are selling them. Thanks for your time.


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## mayhem78 (Nov 22, 2008)

Has anyone heard anything from mtsrunner? I just recently found this post. I'm interested to see if he comes out with anything or buy a guidos. They look very comfortable! i own a tree saddle now and like it but i'm looking for a little more comfort.


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## mbeard1 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anybody with a guidos web in Memphis willing to let me try it...I have a tree saddle, but wonder if guido's web would be any better.....


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## hoggeroo (May 2, 2012)

Is anybody out there? This was a great post. What happened to everybody? I just bought a Guido's Web and will hit the climbing store this weekend to make my own prussic connection.


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## hoggeroo (May 2, 2012)

Check out this post, "Tree saddle rope hookup", if you want the rope setup for your Guidos. The one they are talking about is exactly the same as the one mtsrunner was making. JSouthern is willing to sell them also. However after looking at it extensively, it is pretty easy. Basically 3 knots, 2 pieces of rope, and a carabineer. I am just going to make my own.


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

I plan on ordering a web in the next couple weeks. Hoggeroo, I liked to here your review once you try out your web & rope attachment.


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## NaturesEcho (Jan 20, 2009)

Just got my web and LOVE it! I may have an issue staying awake while hunting, as it is COMFORTABLE!

I have to say though, I didn't realize how much the fork gets in the way while climbing. I may actually cut it off and make a male/female connection on it, that way once I get to climbing height, I could put it back in place. I'd have to make it so it didn't fall out though or make any noise.

Also, the Saddle hookup is the way to go. Ten times the mobility!

Finally, I never considered how to dress while in the Web. 95% of the time I put on my top layers while at hunting height using my Saddle. The web is more cumbersome and loud, and the back rest restricts room. Going to take some practice to work all the kinks out, but I have to say I hated the Saddle the first few times I used it.

Can't wait for season!


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## cunninghamww (Jun 8, 2011)

mts, sent you a pm.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Hey guys, I am back. Got crazy busy with my real job and totally neglected AT and the rope and bridge deal. If anyone is still interested, PM me.
Thanks.


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## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

Welcome back!!!! PM coming your way.


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## rdtj (Jun 16, 2010)

Welcome back MTSrunner!


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## SteveOz (Apr 3, 2005)

I am subscribing so I will know when the new UL stand system will be available.


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## alexsupertramp (Jan 21, 2012)

Mtsrunner or anyone, can you please post the video of using the bridge? I ordered one at end of hunting season (along with GW) and just now figuring out as bow season is approaching. Thx.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

alexsupertramp said:


> Mtsrunner or anyone, can you please post the video of using the bridge? I ordered one at end of hunting season (along with GW) and just now figuring out as bow season is approaching. Thx.


I will try to do a quick video tomorrow if it doesn't rain too much.


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## Rhody Hunter (Jul 14, 2008)

I'd like to see that . I have a Webb that I am trying this year .and just getting comfortable with it . Interested in the bridge.
What does it cost to get a bridge?


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

No video but here are some pics.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Rhody Hunter said:


> I'd like to see that . I have a Webb that I am trying this year .and just getting comfortable with it . Interested in the bridge.
> What does it cost to get a bridge?


$12 tyd


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## belovian (Oct 1, 2007)

Hey mtsrunner, how is your tree stand project coming?? still curious to see this one. 


Jess


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

belovian said:


> Hey mtsrunner, how is your tree stand project coming?? still curious to see this one.
> 
> 
> Jess


Project is on hold unfortunately. Got extremely frustrated with suppliers just trying to build a prototype. I might pick it back up I'm the winter, but it was becoming a source of stress for me.


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## alexsupertramp (Jan 21, 2012)

mtsrunner, I bought your bridge and prussik last year and just now trying to figure it out. How do I attach it? Do I remove anything from the Guido tree straps? You had a video last year (early this year) but it is no longer available. I can't quite tell from the pics posted above by cbigbear. Thanks for any help. 

Alex


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

alexsupertramp said:


> mtsrunner, I bought your bridge and prussik last year and just now trying to figure it out. How do I attach it? Do I remove anything from the Guido tree straps? You had a video last year (early this year) but it is no longer available. I can't quite tell from the pics posted above by cbigbear. Thanks for any help.
> 
> Alex


Hey Alex,
I will get something up today on this thread today. I will try to do a video, but at the very least, I will put up some good pictures of step by step.
It is different than cbigbear's pics above.


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## alexsupertramp (Jan 21, 2012)

mtsrunner said:


> Hey Alex,
> I will get something up today on this thread today. I will try to do a video, but at the very least, I will put up some good pictures of step by step.
> It is different than cbigbear's pics above.


That would be awesome! Thanks very much!

Alex


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

I didn't realize this morning that both of my daughters have volleyball games tonight. I will try to get the video done tomorrow. Sorry about that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*videos of my setup with rope and prusik rig and Guido's bridge*

Well, I finally got some videos done. I had to self-film so the production value is not awesome and the sound in the second one is bad. 
Hopefully, it is somewhat helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GKHZHudYqU&feature=BFa&list=ULvhWJo0dkFMY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhWJo0dkFMY&feature=BFa&list=UL8GKHZHudYqU


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## alexsupertramp (Jan 21, 2012)

mtsrunner, very much appreciated!

Alex


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## JOG (Nov 8, 2009)

Yup looked just fine! may have to do a separate voice file and merge it into the second one . If you were closer I would have been your cameraman. I am in for some 9mm line if you get some (muddy size). I did get some of the 3/8 and will give it a try but wouldn't mind getting the 9mm. I am searching the internet and if I find some I will let you know.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

JOG said:


> Yup looked just fine! may have to do a separate voice file and merge it into the second one . If you were closer I would have been your cameraman. I am in for some 9mm line if you get some (muddy size). I did get some of the 3/8 and will give it a try but wouldn't mind getting the 9mm. I am searching the internet and if I find some I will let you know.


Thanks. I will probably order some 9 mm on Monday. I might just re-make the second video. Audio was bad and I rambled on too long without adding any more useful info. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## buktruk (Feb 11, 2004)

Might try the web, have been using the saddle for years.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

buktruk said:


> Might try the web, have been using the saddle for years.


definitely more comfortable, but also more straps and weight to deal with. They both have their place.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

JOG said:


> Yup looked just fine! may have to do a separate voice file and merge it into the second one . If you were closer I would have been your cameraman. I am in for some 9mm line if you get some (muddy size). I did get some of the 3/8 and will give it a try but wouldn't mind getting the 9mm. I am searching the internet and if I find some I will let you know.


Thanks.
I have a bunch of 9 mm Superstatic in black ordered. Let me know if you want some on PM. $1/ft TYD. 
http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/456025/N090/_/9mm_SuperStatic


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## JOG (Nov 8, 2009)

I will pm u my order! . I just got my web in and can't wait to try it. Used a saddle before and liked it just was never fully comfortable in it mainly because of the tree an knees. I am hoping the web solves this with the fork. I think it will for The small cost of weight which isn't that bad actually and carries nicely making it not noticeable. If the saddle had a fork it would be ideal. I really think u need to get your tree stand(saddle style) going. After I read your post about it I have been drooling to see it. Do u have a proto type of it built? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## buktruk (Feb 11, 2004)

Just ordered my Web, about how long have most been waiting to get them after they place their order. Also, how much static rope do you reccomend for making the tie off?


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## phade (Feb 2, 2008)

Mine took 11 days to get to my door. I just got it last week. Worth the wait. They get busy this time of year.


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

buktruk said:


> Just ordered my Web, about how long have most been waiting to get them after they place their order. Also, how much static rope do you reccomend for making the tie off?


For a "standard", I start with about 11' of 7/16" static kernmantle rope. I tie a figure eight follow-through in one end (bigger loop) and an overhand knot in the other end (smaller loop). That will give you about 6.5' of working length. 
For my prusik, I use a 40" piece of 7 mm. I tie a double fisherman's knot in that. That will give you a loop that you can make a 6 loop or 8 loop prusik, depending on your preference. Obviously, a 6 loop will give you a longer 'tail' and an 8 loop will be tighter and barely give room to sneak the carabiner in. 
Hope that helps. 
If you are interested I can get my rig TYD for $25 or $35 if you want the 'bridge', too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## don batten (Dec 11, 2011)

Hey msgunner, i'd like to buy one of your rigs. I tried pming but not sure it went through. my email is [email protected] 

The last letter in my name is a zero. thanks Don


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

don batten said:


> Hey msgunner, i'd like to buy one of your rigs. I tried pming but not sure it went through. my email is [email protected]
> 
> The last letter in my name is a zero. thanks Don


Gotcha. Your rig will go out Saturday or Monday at the latest. 
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

mtsrunner said:


> For a "standard", I start with about 11' of 7/16" static kernmantle rope. I tie a figure eight follow-through in one end (bigger loop) and an overhand knot in the other end (smaller loop). That will give you about 6.5' of working length.
> For my prusik, I use a 40" piece of 7 mm. I tie a double fisherman's knot in that. That will give you a loop that you can make a 6 loop or 8 loop prusik, depending on your preference. Obviously, a 6 loop will give you a longer 'tail' and an 8 loop will be tighter and barely give room to sneak the carabiner in.
> Hope that helps.
> If you are interested I can get my rig TYD for $25 or $35 if you want the 'bridge', too.
> ...


I have sent a PM with my info. I would like to purchase the rig with the bridge. 

Thanks!


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## constitution (Dec 5, 2012)

hey guy new to at and the guidos web is why i joined. this thread is amazing. the amount of thought u guys have put into this is really cool. so my question is why a micro climber base platform has not shown up yet. i saw the video of the guy with the foot loops for climbing and that looks like a pita to me but it got me thinking and i think the micro platform wood not only solve the gettn up the tree but also the solid base at the top. my bro is a metal fab by trade and estimates the total wt of a micro platform at 2.3 pounds so 2 of them would be under 5 pounds get u passed branches and give u a great platform at the top thoughts


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## SD BowHunter (Sep 24, 2008)

TAGGED... for later


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## alexsupertramp (Jan 21, 2012)

What is a micro climber platform?


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## constitution (Dec 5, 2012)

it works on the same principle as the platform of any climber only it is just large enough for a boot on each side im still working on the idea and im not an engineer but really would like to find the easiest way up a tree think of it this way the jaws on one side another V opposite the jaws to put ur feet on


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## buktruk (Feb 11, 2004)

This is how I hunt I use the seat portion of a lone wolf hand climber to climb with and hunt out of both my web and tree saddle. It tucks into the web great, is light, and with the prussic set up is pretty easy to climb with. Definitely worth looking into in my opinion.​


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## constitution (Dec 5, 2012)

buktruk when u get up the tree u rest ur feet on the seat? and stand on the seat while climbing


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## buktruk (Feb 11, 2004)

constitution said:


> buktruk when u get up the tree u rest ur feet on the seat? and stand on the seat while climbing


Yeah, use the seat like a foot platform for climbing and then as a base to hunt from, works great.


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## constitution (Dec 5, 2012)

exactly what i was talking about only i would like to have something even more minimal than that even. the other question is could you climb with the seat as your base without modifying the web because i would like to hunt out of it the first year as is from the factory


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## buktruk (Feb 11, 2004)

Yeah you should be able to. I think usi g a rope system would be easier but should be okay with the original set up.


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## constitution (Dec 5, 2012)

buktruk said:


> Yeah you should be able to. I think usi g a rope system would be easier but should be okay with the original set up.


thanks im going to start the fab procress on a tiny platform over the holidays ill post pics when its finished


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## phade (Feb 2, 2008)

Anyone know...what size ratchet straps fit the ameristep strap one steps? Bought a few without a strap and want to throw them all together onto one tough ratchet. 1"?


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

I think a small platform that would attach to a climbing stick would be awesome. You can easily climb with the web & just one stick. Navigating around limbs would be easier with a stick vs a climbing platform.


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## cloudbaseracer (Jun 15, 2010)

cbigbear said:


> I think a small platform that would attach to a climbing stick would be awesome. You can easily climb with the web & just one stick. Navigating around limbs would be easier with a stick vs a climbing platform.



Really? How do you climb with just one stick?


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

Details & vid in this link
http://www.publiclandbowhunters.com/t288-one-stick-climbing-method

I climb with one stick using a rock climbing harness or web.


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## cloudbaseracer (Jun 15, 2010)

Interesting. I am in good shape and that looks to me like a sweat fest! I am in Georgia and see you are in Louisiana so you know how hot it can get in September/October. Is this simply to save weight?


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## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

phade said:


> Anyone know...what size ratchet straps fit the ameristep strap one steps? Bought a few without a strap and want to throw them all together onto one tough ratchet. 1"?


I'm pretty sure it's an inch. I'll check tomorrow in the tree.


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## constitution (Dec 5, 2012)

how is that possibly any easier than a platform i soaked my recliner in sweat just watching dont get me wrong its a great idea but i think the platform would be less physical


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

cloudbaseracer said:


> Interesting. I am in good shape and that looks to me like a sweat fest! I am in Georgia and see you are in Louisiana so you know how hot it can get in September/October. Is this simply to save weight?


Everything in LA is a sweat fest!!! You can't sit down & put your boots on around here without sweating. Yes the one stick vs multi's is to save weight & bulk. On a fairly limbless tree I can climb with one stick just as fast as climbing with 3 or 4 so saving 5 to 7.5lbs of packing weight is worth it to me. Keep in mind this vid was shot last year & my first attempt at one stick climbing. This is much smoother & faster now as is any climbing with practice.


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

constitution said:


> how is that possibly any easier than a platform i soaked my recliner in sweat just watching dont get me wrong its a great idea but i think the platform would be less physical


I didn't say this was easier than a climber platform on limbless trees, but instead takes the same effort. However on trees with a few limbs it's much easier to use a stick vs hooking & unhooking a climber. I find all climbing to take about the same effort. Climbers take more on the front end with packing & setup.


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## DaveT1963 (Oct 16, 2012)

How do you guys quiet the metal brackets with the floating bars?


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

Not following you what metal bracket & floating bars?


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## DaveT1963 (Oct 16, 2012)

The adjustable buckles on shoulder straps lumbar straps and back adjustment strap. They make a lot of noise when removing web or when dropping seat


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## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

I use bike inner tubes over all buckles on the web & climbing sticks.


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## Bgargasz (Apr 20, 2009)

Who sells the hook ups for the tree saddle esk set up?


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## phade (Feb 2, 2008)

Bgargasz said:


> Who sells the hook ups for the tree saddle esk set up?


mtsrunner can hook you up.


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## Bgargasz (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks phade


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## MichBowhunter12 (Jan 23, 2012)

MTSRUNNER,
I'm looking to get a web soon as I'm trying to cut wait from a climber. I was reading and it said that you where working on one of your own design, any luck.
Also I want to get the bridge system you make for the web. I hope you are still making them.
Thanks


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## srgntrock (Mar 20, 2013)

+1, any update on this?


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

Me too.... Anything in the works MTS?


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## unicornslayer (Aug 28, 2009)

Tagging for later


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## flex meanstreet (Aug 4, 2012)

MTS Runner
I would like to get a rope/bridge set up for my GW. Are you still making them?? I sent a PM to you last night, hope to hear back from you one way or another.


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## constitution (Dec 5, 2012)

I bought hss rope tree strap with a prussic and it seems to work good. I got it at dicks today for $20.


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

I used my Guidos Web & the Bridge adapter by *mtsrunner *to shoot my Buck last fall. I practiced a few times in the woods behind my house & then when up for the opening of bow season I was in the Web less than an hour before I had 2 bucks come in right under my stand. I ended up making a great shot, had to lean out VIA the bridge set up & took a shot in a beachball sized window the buck was going to walk threw. I led him about 2 feet & as soon as he appeared in the small window, I shot. It would not have happened in my tree stand, branches would have obstructed me.

Anyways, killer set up. Worth a try guys...

Thanks Kevin!

Kevin!


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## ccy333 (Oct 8, 2011)

Can someone let me know the best way to order one of these?


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

Just call them & the owner will walk you threw an order over the phone. Sizing, questions, he'll be most happy to help, very friendly fella.

Guidos Web

On there web site...

Order Guido's Web on-Line:


(1) Select a size (use our sizing chart) and quantity
(2) Click the "Order It" button
(3) A page will appear showing your shopping cart order status
(4) Repeat steps (1) and (2) until your order is complete
(5) When you have completed your order, click the "Check Out" button on the cart page

Your order will be processed on a secure server.
Your credit card information will be encrypted and is safe from unauthorized use. 

However, if you'd ruther, you can call us at 662-686-2130 and place your order over the phone.


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## ccy333 (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I have already spoken with Butch and am waiting on the arrival off Guidos Web. I was wondering if mtsrunner is still selling the bridge adapter that this thread is about and the one you were referring to in the above post. Any info on that?

Thanks again.


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## stkline81 (Dec 28, 2008)

He is no longer making them. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

I PMed him & he responded. I can't seem to find his other contact information. Try PMing him...




ccy333 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have already spoken with Butch and am waiting on the arrival off Guidos Web. I was wondering if mtsrunner is still selling the bridge adapter that this thread is about and the one you were referring to in the above post. Any info on that?
> 
> Thanks again.


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## MichBowhunter12 (Jan 23, 2012)

well I have my web coming and going to be doing the bridge setup. I still have not decided on step but looking at climb paws, muddy sticks, and lone wolf sticks. I like the muddy sticks with the steps on both sides but are also the heaviest setup. can't wait to get it and start practicing with the setup.


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

Have you looked at the Stepp Ladder, they are pretty compact and light. Give them a look, they are worth it. The contact info for Jim Stepp is at the start of the youtube video...









MichBowhunter12;10680198 75 said:


> well I have my web coming and going to be doing the bridge setup. I *still have not decided on step* but looking at climb paws, muddy sticks, and lone wolf sticks. I like the muddy sticks with the steps on both sides but are also the heaviest setup. can't wait to get it and start practicing with the setup.


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## Buckhorn70 (Dec 5, 2004)

Blue Hunter said:


> Thanks mtsrunner! Here's another little trick that might help you guys out. Worked out great for me. I took an old linesmans belt stap I had laying around (same width as the Web belts) and cut it to make about a 2' piece. Take the 2 extra (spare) male plastic buckle ends that Butch includes with the web (or call him for a couple). Thread one on each of the 2' strap. Now here's the trick....attach the male ends into the female ends of the leg buckle straps around your waist and tighten. When packed up on your back you have just made a very effective waist belt strap that works awesome to carry ALOT more weight comfortably! I personally carry my LW Assasin platform + in the Web on my back. Trust me it makes a HUGE difference when walking a ways.


Like to see a pic of this


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## Bgargasz (Apr 20, 2009)

Is anyone still making the rope hook up? My brother needs one


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

Check with JSouthern on here. He was making a similar one for the TreeSaddle. You could use his rope hookup and add a sling. I might have an extra sling. Let me know and I will look around my garage.


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

If anyone is looking for *Stepp Ladders with a Tote bag*, I'm selling my Stepp Ladder set of 12 stepps & *one authentic tote bag* in the classifieds. Great set up...

I switched over to all climbers mid season this year & while I hate to get rid of the Stepps, I just don't need them any longer.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2131414&p=1068690519#post1068690519


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