# My quest to a 300 (Vegas) - if it kills me !



## oct71

Good luck too you! I hope you get it done. I'm still working on it myself


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## EPLC

I feel your pain, although 298 would be a step up from where I'm at right now (coming back from an injury)


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## nestly

You'll get it soon if you're consistently in the high 90's. Don't focus on the 300 though, just make 30 good shots, one at a time.


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## Garceau

My first game last evening










My second.....










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## RCR_III

Here's a response I wrote out to Garceau, but I wanted to post it up here too. Who knows, it might help someone on their quest too. The end part about the mental side of it was explained a little more in depth in a previous email with him, but I hit on it again on this briefly. 

_Yea, the mental part of indoor is the hardest. It's designed around not missing. That's the mindset we go into it with. We can't miss. We have to be perfect. That puts a lot of pressure on ourselves. For a long time I shot better outdoors, and really better at 60-80 than I did at any other distance. Because it wasn't a game of perfection. It was a game of how many times can I hit the ten and I just shot my bow and followed my process. 

I got to thinking about it one day about why I couldn't shoot indoors better and what I could change to help the process. 

I pretty much do now the same thing indoors as I do outdoors, except it's me saying how many times can I hit the x. I don't worry about shooting a ten on a Vegas Face. Do I nail 300's every time? Heck no! haha But I'm also not as stressed as before and I just shoot my shot and flow so much easier. 

A lot of people set mile stone goals on a Vegas round and it starts with wanting to shoot that 300. Who cares x count. Just a 300. So they fixate on that and say I can't miss the ten ring and they'll float around the ten ring and clam up and dip to the nines or wherever and it breaks them down mentally and they start over aiming and bad things happen. 

Go into it with a mindset of regardless of the overall score, I just want to see how many x's I can hit today. Because you're not trying to be perfect at this point and nail down 30 x's. You're just wanting to see what happens on x count. Maybe you'll hit 10 of them. Maybe you'll get 25. Who knows. But it's fun to see how many happen during a round. And looking at that versus thinking about the score diverts the attention for me and makes it more like my outdoor game. 

The mental shooting is a huge part too. Something frustrating happens, because it will at some point, take a mental break and reset. Shoot a perfect shot in your head and then re start and go back to the target. 

I even like shooting them in my head while I'm getting my bow out and set up, putting my target face up, whatever. Just to get myself in the zone of that thought process. Reminding myself what a perfect shot feels like and the results on target showing that._


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## Bobmuley

^Good stuff ^


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## Garceau

Well wasn't a 300 tonight either. Little sloppier overall but still 18X

Found my bow was slightly outta time but I can't blame that on my holding. 

Reality just wasn't feeling it. Been shooting alot lately and a little wore out. 

Not giving up !










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## nochance

Just happened to have shot my 1st 300 last night, with bow i setup 3 days ago. Other than being overly anal about draw length and stab weights, i think the only thing i did better than previous rounds was concentrate on making 1 good shot. I usually do well with that until about 5 or 6 ends in then the mind goes on auto pilot and bam "9". Three weeks ago i dropped a 9 on the last arrow for a 299. wasn't nervous at all just shot a passive shot and it was weak out the bottom.


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## Jmcbailey

Garceau said:


> Well wasn't a 300 tonight either. Little sloppier overall but still 18X
> 
> Found my bow was slightly outta time but I can't blame that on my holding.
> 
> Reality just wasn't feeling it. Been shooting alot lately and a little wore out.
> 
> Not giving up !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


What is the software that you are showing screenshots that include 'cartoons' of your shots?


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## pherrley

That is Archerzupshot, which is unfortunately no longer supported.


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## Garceau

Ya know I just downloaded it again a few weeks ago....I didn't know they got rid of it?


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## Bobmuley

Garceau said:


> Ya know I just downloaded it again a few weeks ago....I didn't know they got rid of it?


I've had it a while and didn't know either.


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## aread

Looks like they shut it down on 12/14/16, a little over a week ago.

Sorry I missed it. Anybody know of a comparable?


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## ILOVE3D

Bummer, I just got my phone replaced and hadn't re-loaded it on the new phone.


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## lacampbell2005

Tag


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## nestly

aread said:


> Looks like they shut it down on 12/14/16, a little over a week ago.
> 
> Sorry I missed it. Anybody know of a comparable?


Rcherz (used for many WA tournament and also Lancaster Archery Classic)
MyTargets
ArcheryScorebook


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## Garceau

That's odd they shut it down..... It had a pretty good following a year ago, with a staff and jerseys and everything else. I know a few that were on it, I will see if they have more information.

Anyways - back to my quest.

I only had a few minutes last night - took the wife out and she met me at the shop for supper and a drink before we left (yes my shop has full bar/grill)

I was shooting with one of the Mathews engineers (joy of shooting in Sparta) we talked about a few little things and went over a few things with the bows etc...he is a buddy so we are always talking.

anyways was able to shoot 15 shots and shot 11 X - then wife came and had to do my duties as a husband (I cant complain I shoot anywhere and whenever I want so one night this year no big deal)

Tonight I have 3D but will try and shoot prior for 300.


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## MN Archery Guy

Early November of this year I had all my gear in a rental car and went to league the next day I returned the rental car 2 days later I went to my club to practice and I forgot my back bar with all my weights on it in car ( of course they didn't find anything in car ) so I shot a Vegas round not bad a 297. I was like ok not bad for missing back bar I'll take it the next day I shot my first Vegas 300 with it. Since then I've shot 2 more with my last 300 w/ 22X! X count continues to slowly go up but I'm hanging between 296-300. I've made some changes in the last week so hopefully I can be more consistent with them 300's. Shoot straight! Good luck!


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## Bobmuley

Keep at it!


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## Garceau

Shot a 296 - 22X last night (highest X count that I remember)

Then shot a 298 - both 9s went out the top which is really odd for me. I don't see that happen to often. Evaluating it with the changes I made to form I believe every now and then I get to much heal and rather than pushing straight to the target its going up and out a little.


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## legion_archery

You'll get there Garceau, I just started shooting Vagas face 2 weeks ago and I shot my first 300 with 21X a week ago and have shot a couple more since then, once you get the 300 then they start to come a lot easier because the pressure to shoot a 300 is off your shoulders.... now that the pressure is off my shoulders from shooting my first 300 I am relaxed and just shooting for the X and I actually shot a 300 28X last night and now I want to shoot a 300 30X! 

Something that I started doing was working on shooting a blank target face to make sure I get the first holes in the paper to be in the X and then after that I just keep saying to myself ""same hole, same hole"" that has seemed to help me out a lot more...

But no matter what you've got to remember to keep it fun!!!!

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## jbhoyt

Kevin I think you better come to the New Years Eve shoot at Blackhawk and show us how it"s done, the food is great. Jim


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## Garceau

I can't hang with you guys at Verona .....

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## Garceau

Everything felt horrible last night - every thing from anchor not feeling the same/consistent to grip to float.

One of them nights.


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## Bobmuley

I get it. One of those days when it feels like you're shooting a borrowed bow.

Still, I'm checking in every morning until I see you post a 300.


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## N7709K

i found when i was chasing the 300 was that its completely a mental game that revolves around the prestige of shooting a 300. Putting all 30 arrows in there; thats not really all that difficult if you've gotten to a level where you're flirting with shooting 300's. The first one i shot happened in a range down in Georgia; wasn't shooting for score and I was shooting stupid high arrow counts each day... but none the less i managed to shoot a 300 with like 22 or 23 inners with skinnies because I was working the process and not focusing on the result. As i worked to keep shooting them i found putting time in on a close bale shooting score after score after score until all you shoot day in and day out (on the close bale) are 300's takes the mental factor down a good deal-- instead of hoping to shoot a 300, you know you will shoot one....


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## Lazarus

Marked. Interesting discussion. A few valuable nuggets within. 

Good fortunes with the progress Garceau. :cheers:


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## SonnyThomas

Yes, some value here....

Mental, mental...Go back to the 5 spot. Seems when I finally "broke the ice" higher scores and 300s came easier though never a high X count, but then I quit shooting spots...


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## centershot

Shoot a 450 round, somewhere in there I'd bet you put together 10) 30's and there's your 300. Now your mind knows you can do it and away you go. The 10 yard drill is also good way to train your mind that shooting 300's is expected.


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## Garceau

centershot said:


> Shoot a 450 round, somewhere in there I'd bet you put together 10) 30's and there's your 300. Now your mind knows you can do it and away you go. The 10 yard drill is also good way to train your mind that shooting 300's is expected.


I did have 43 or so tens in a row on the one where I dropped - but its not sitting with me as I spread it out over 2 games.

I had to take a little break this weekend - mentally it was wearing me out and physically I was having some tendonitis issues in my elbow from ramping up my shooting so quickly after hunting.


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## centershot

Garceau said:


> I did have 43 or so tens in a row on the one where I dropped - but its not sitting with me as I spread it out over 2 games.
> 
> I had to take a little break this weekend - mentally it was wearing me out and physically I was having some tendonitis issues in my elbow from ramping up my shooting so quickly after hunting.


That tells you right there that you can and have done it. Now forget 300's and work on you X count - the 300's will come.


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## oldpro888

I want to ask what happens on marginal floats and time starts to run out in your head? When you feel you may miss during a shot what happens?
Where you are now as a shooter it is the marginal shots that get in your way. If you shoot a 298, you probably had 4-5 shots you should have let down. The worst shot is a forced marginal shot that goes in. It reinforces that you can get away with it. You can, but about half the time. 
I have only met one archer in my career that shot 300 9-10 times or better, and NEVER let down.
You may have this part of shooting already, just had an inclining 


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## Padgett

For me this season I started out weak mentally and weak as a shooter and just this last week I finally got on top of my shooting. My mental side is a train wreck though, I stand there and watch myself do stupid stuff. So, I am going to now focus 100% on the mental side and hopefully get on top of it so I can enjoy the rest of the indoor season.


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## athomPT

good info in this post, thanks guys for sharing!!!


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## erdman41

Forget the score. Work on shooting 30 good shots in a row. The rest takes care of itself.

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## BillyRay

Stop overthinking it dude.


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## Garceau

297 last night - made some changes to the bars that made everything feel better.

My last piece to work on bow fit wise is the grip. Struggling with a consistent and comfortable grip. I can actually feel it moving every now and then through the shot process which obviously breaks concentration.


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## legion_archery

Garceau what bow are you shooting???

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## Garceau

Halon X- Comp


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## BillyRay

Garceau said:


> 297 last night - made some changes to the bars that made everything feel better.
> 
> My last piece to work on bow fit wise is the grip. Struggling with a consistent and comfortable grip. I can actually feel it moving every now and then through the shot process which obviously breaks concentration.


If your grip is slipping during the shot then not only is it affecting torque, but also since you are noticing it, it's affecting you mentally during the shot. Wrap it with something.


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## legion_archery

Go get some ace sports wrap from walmart, it's in the sports department by the tennis stuff, it's only about $3









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## Rick!

Kevin, like some others have said, it ain't in your equipment, it's all between your ears. Fully mature your shot process and let it happen.
I went back to the short bale this week and then shot the most relaxed 299 Vegas ever. I'm in the same bout u are but I know my 300 will come. Yours will to.


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## N7709K

another thing that works more as a drill in executing each shot as its own game is shooting only at a single spot(cut a 3 spot into three separate spots so that your sight picture remains the same); one arrow at a time, score, and repeat for 30 separate "games" where the highest possible score in 10x. to build upon this and work on shot tempo and feel you alternate between one arrow for score and one blank bale shot working to keep the shot timing and feel consistent.


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## EPLC

N7709K said:


> another thing that works more as a drill in executing each shot as its own game is shooting only at a single spot(cut a 3 spot into three separate spots so that your sight picture remains the same); one arrow at a time, score, and repeat for 30 separate "games" where the highest possible score in 10x. to build upon this and work on shot tempo and feel you alternate between one arrow for score and one blank bale shot working to keep the shot timing and feel consistent.


After coming up with this drill a while back, I started doing it again about a week ago. While I'm not close to a 300 at this time I'm seeing improvement as a result of this drill. It really helps to keep your mind on the arrow at hand. My version of this is a 10 arrow scored game. I shot 3 of these this morning scoring 1X 96 for the first round, an improved 6X 98 for the second and a 5X 99 to finish off that started with a 9. I feel that after I get shooting a consistent 10 in a row I'll be well on my way to that elusive 300.


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## RCR_III

Rick! said:


> Kevin, like some others have said, it ain't in your equipment, it's all between your ears. Fully mature your shot process and let it happen.
> I went back to the short bale this week and then shot the most relaxed 299 Vegas ever. I'm in the same bout u are but I know my 300 will come. Yours will to.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Levi Morgan made a post about having the confidence to excel tonight. He stated that believing you won't miss, even though you may but shutting that thought out, is key. 

That goes along with what you're saying and what I've emailed to Kevin as well. Working on the short games and building the mental confidence is huge. If you can puff out the chest and think to yourself you're NOT missing no matter what. You'll approach the target with such a different mindset. The float will work well, and if it doesn't you ignore it a little more and run your shot, because you're used to nailing x's.


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## BillyRay

RCR_III said:


> *If you can puff out the chest and think to yourself you're NOT missing no matter what.* You'll approach the target with such a different mindset. The float will work well, and if it doesn't you ignore it a little more and run your shot, because you're used to nailing x's.


Levi said the word miss should never enter your head. So like Lanny Bassham says, instead of thinking "I'm not missing", think to yourself "I'm going to hit them all". Both are the same end result, but the latter you don't have the word MISS floating in your head.


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## Garceau

Went and shot a 30 target 3D today on way to ata. 

19 twelves. No 8s. Felt I made 27 strong shots. 

Should have had a few more points my tape was a little off and didn't catch it right away. 

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## EPLC

*First 300!*

Congrats to RI Mike for his first 300 (18X) this Tuesday morning. Nice shooting Mike!


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## ILOVE3D

EPLC said:


> Congrats to RI Mike for his first 300 (18X) this Tuesday morning. Nice shooting Mike!


Congrats, nice shooting I'm envious. Mine will come and hopefully soon, getting close but it's not an overnite thing I'm finding. Shot a 450 round last night along several others in a league and made the dreadful mistake of leaving the house wearing tennis/running shoes. Not enough stability for me and struggled a good bit. Never make that mistake again.


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## Bobmuley

RCR_III said:


> Levi Morgan made a post about having the confidence to excel tonight. He stated that believing you won't miss, even though you may but shutting that thought out, is key.
> 
> That goes along with what you're saying and what I've emailed to Kevin as well. Working on the short games and building the mental confidence is huge. If you can puff out the chest and think to yourself you're NOT missing no matter what. You'll approach the target with such a different mindset. The float will work well, and if it doesn't you ignore it a little more and run your shot, because you're used to nailing x's.


Kind of like when you make a crappy shot (miss)...sometimes it takes that little bit of anger or little bit of extra motivation to focus on "hitting the X or 12". 

The difference between shooting to hit and shooting to not miss is huge...

Garceau...hoping you're closer today than you were yesterday!


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## Bobmuley

EPLC said:


> Congrats to RI Mike for his first 300 (18X) this Tuesday morning. Nice shooting Mike!


Atta boy! Congrats....and do it again!


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## RCR_III

Bobmuley said:


> Kind of like when you make a crappy shot (miss)...sometimes it takes that little bit of anger or little bit of extra motivation to focus on "hitting the X or 12".
> 
> The difference between shooting to hit and shooting to not miss is huge...
> 
> Garceau...hoping you're closer today than you were yesterday!


So true! I've caught myself a few times this indoor season trying too hard to be perfect and being conservative only to miss, get mad, and remember the plan. It's a good reminder to stay on task and keep yourself within your own shot.


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## Garceau

Well....was gone a little with ata. Took a few days off to relax. 

Shot 296-14 tonight. 

But the plus side was it was a real easy 296. Low stress that started off real good x count. But faded a little at the end. 

Noticed peep height is very critical on this bow. Effects hand pressure on the riser and this bow appears sensitive to that. 

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## Garceau

Reflecting back the shots that missed were shots that went a little long on my window to fire.

For whatever reason I missed to barely out high and two barely low left. 2 of them would have caught with 25 series arrows but I was shooting my 23 series arrows.

I have been adjusting ever so fine my peep height and for the first time ever I actually had a few shots yesterday that held high and stayed there. My pin float was real good just needed to be a little more aggressive with the shot, stronger with the front arm being an issue at times.


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## nochance

Garceau said:


> Reflecting back the shots that missed were shots that went a little long on my window to fire.
> For whatever reason I missed to barely out high and two barely low left. 2 of them would have caught with 25 series arrows but I was shooting my 23 series arrows.


Long in the shot window, sounds like me and that's what I've been working on the most. I shoot 27s but can "just miss" with those as well


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## Garceau

297-18

23s kept me outta a couple. But one was WAAAAAY close to an 8

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## Deputy Archer

Been keeping up with this thread.... lots of great info. Really took to heart what RCR said about just focusing on the x and not worrying and the ten ring. 

I was shooting league Wednesday and was just focusing on the x. Ended up shooting 6 ends down one x..... which is awesome for me, a typical score for me is 298 16-20 x. I took a pic of the target, thinking i am going to screw this up any second. What da ya know, next end #2 target, 9 dead left right in the middle 9 ring. During the shot all i was thinking about was not missing.

Really gotta work on getting that little bit of doudt out of mind. Finished 299 25x kept going 447 35x, great score for me but got a lot of work to do.


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## Bobmuley

Deputy Archer said:


> Been keeping up with this thread.... lots of great info. Really took to heart what RCR said about just focusing on the x and not worrying and the ten ring.
> 
> I was shooting league Wednesday and was just focusing on the x. Ended up shooting 6 ends down one x..... which is awesome for me, a typical score for me is 298 16-20 x. I took a pic of the target, thinking i am going to screw this up any second. What da ya know, next end #2 target, 9 dead left right in the middle 9 ring. During the shot all i was thinking about was not missing.
> 
> Really gotta work on getting that little bit of doudt out of mind. Finished 299 25x kept going 447 35x, great score for me but got a lot of work to do.


Awesome!


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## Garceau

56 X on 5 spot today. 

Shots felt good. Still some timing issues that break just before I decide to let down 

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## ILOVE3D

Like you Garceau, I also am on a quest to shoot a 300 on a Vegas face during a tournament. This past Saturday was a possible time at our southwest sectional however on Friday I was out in the garage for 3 1/2 hours (wife had several lady friends over inside for a party). Weather being pretty nasty outside I stayed in the garage and just shot at my downsized Vegas target face at 7 yards. I was shooting so good I figured tomorrow was going to be the day. Shot after shot pretty much in the same hole as the last arrow. Unfortunately I didn't use common sense and stop after I had shot just a bit. Shooting the entire 3 1/2 hours was way too much and on Saturday I was so shakey and my bow arm was actually sore from overuse the previous day. That is one dumb mistake I won't make again hopefully. I knew better but was shooting so good I didn't stop until I knew it was time to stop. Bummed out I am. Took yesterday off and just going to shoot perhaps 40 or so arrows today. Again, weather bad so shooting indoors in garage. even though it's close with the downsized target one can tell if the shot is going to be a good one or not.


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## Anarchist_Otter

Jmcbailey said:


> What is the software that you are showing screenshots that include 'cartoons' of your shots?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That's archerzupshot 

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## Bobmuley

Garceau said:


> 56 X on 5 spot today.
> 
> Shots felt good. Still some timing issues that break just before I decide to let down


What are we doing about the timing issue?


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## Garceau

Bobmuley said:


> What are we doing about the timing issue?


Bought a different bow.....LOL - not so much about the timing issue. But with the bow I was shooting I just never seemed comfortable with it 2 days in a row. I had issues with a consistent grip.

I let down a lot, its never an issue of being afraid to let down. I could have let down on a few more though  sometimes my type A personality overrides my conscious self to let down.


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## nswarcher

A bump for this thread as it is also my goal this year, and shot a pb 295, the 5 came from finishing the shot early, which was expected with a new release
Garceau, if you are not using it try mytargets app, the new version shows average group on each spot and may help with your fine tuning


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## carlosii

I have had a few minor form issues and I have reached out to RCR on here and we are going over a few things. We just started this week and one area he picked up on instantly was my release elbow - I was fighting a low bobbing pin.

Was your elbow high, low...what? I'm fighting that low bobbing pin as well. Pure aggravation.


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## Rick!

Spent a weekend at a NTS clinic two weeks ago. This is the second one in 4 days, both with 23s. I'm starting to learn what comfortable means. 











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## Bobmuley

Great job Rick!


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## Garceau

wow older thread - 

In reality I never felt comfortable last year and sadly just kind switched focus from 300 Vegas round back to 3D. 3D is easier for me as I dont have a defined spot to aim at and can cover up some issues. Sadly I know its covering up issues and to be a better 3D shooter I need to focus on spots which rewards everything good about the process and penalizes anything negative with the process.

I started a few weeks ago again and put out the quest to shoot a 300. I have since done that on multiple occassions. I truly can attest it does get easier each time. I have framed my first one.... I will replace it with the first one I shoot in competition.

Since then I have dropped a few points here and there but my X count is climbing, which is telling me my "overall" shot process is progressing but I am losing focus a few times a round. I have shot multiple 298s with 25-26x

I have booked my flight and accomodations for Vegas 2018


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## Bobmuley

Garceau said:


> wow older thread -
> 
> In reality I never felt comfortable last year and sadly just kind switched focus from 300 Vegas round back to 3D. 3D is easier for me as I dont have a defined spot to aim at and can cover up some issues. Sadly I know its covering up issues and to be a better 3D shooter I need to focus on spots which rewards everything good about the process and penalizes anything negative with the process.
> 
> I started a few weeks ago again and put out the quest to shoot a 300. I have since done that on multiple occassions. I truly can attest it does get easier each time. I have framed my first one.... I will replace it with the first one I shoot in competition.
> 
> Since then I have dropped a few points here and there but my X count is climbing, which is telling me my "overall" shot process is progressing but I am losing focus a few times a round. I have shot multiple 298s with 25-26x
> 
> I have booked my flight and accomodations for Vegas 2018


Atta boy!


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## Garceau

I cannot say how true it is that once you get one it gets easier.....last evening, outside fighting off mosquitos I ripped off an "easy" 300-23 now the X count was down a little, and some of that was my laziness to not move target face once I got a hole going just outta the X. The arrows just kept sliding into the freaking hole....LOL

anyways by "easy" i mean I only experienced a little stress on the last two ends. My brain is figuring out that its "normal" to do this and each time I get less and less anxiety. I hope to stand on the line with others and get to this point soon.

Also by "Easy" I never had any outside looking in. They all were on the 10 line solid, if not inside it.


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## adam0321

My most recent attempt. 


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## Garceau

Nice.....i been away for work. Up in a tree right now. Now when I get home for work prolly won't have daylight enough to shoot a round. I gotta keep on it that's for sure

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## adam0321

It is tough. I have only ever shot two 300s and each time I do, it is on a target that looks like a shotgun blast hit it. I will get to the range and there will already be a Vegas face up and I will just shoot that. Each time I have gotten a clean target with the mindset of "ok I am going to shoot a 300 and frame this one" I plug a 9 right off the bat. It's all mental. 


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## Wayne338

Good luck too you! I hope you get it done


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## adam0321

I read somewhere on here that the 3-5 yard aiming drills are key. That is, stand 3 yards from a target and shoot one arrow at a time. Attempting to put 30 arrows in the same hole. I have been doing this for a day or so. It causes me to really focus and trust my shot. If I don't let it surprise me and just pull thru the shot, I will be out of the hole. Anyway, I did this for a day or two and then moved back to 10 yards. That is as far as I can shoot in my garage. I was able to shoot a Vegas round keeping all arrows in the x. I am going to try and go to the shop tomorrow to see how I do. The close aiming drills are really helping. 


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## adam0321

I'm regressing, this is very frustrating










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## Padgett

Hey Garceau, isn't it nice that all the pro shooters that are starting to train for indoor are bragging on facebook about not picking up their bow since the classic and shooting 30x rounds their first day shooting?


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## adam0321

I shot a 30x last night....in my garage, from 12 yds


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## adam0321

And again. They make it look so easy on YouTube.










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## 1/2 Bubble Off

I shot a 300-6x the other night.... Too bad I still had 15 arrows to shoot!!!! Once I realized I was clean to this point, I got in my own head and put 2 in the 8 ring. I ended with a 446-11x for my personal best score ever!


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## adam0321

Nice. This is a long road. 


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## Garceau

Padgett said:


> Hey Garceau, isn't it nice that all the pro shooters that are starting to train for indoor are bragging on facebook about not picking up their bow since the classic and shooting 30x rounds their first day shooting?


I know right.... or they complain they only shot a 29x.....


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