# Against Hunting



## grounder2506

The Senate today confirmed Obama's Regulatory Czar named Cass Sunstein who is 100% against hunting. He also believes that animals have the right to be represented in court. I guess chickens will be able to sue Perdue, Tyson etc for their rights. This is not a joke look it up. These radicals are out to ruin America. Time to replace them all from Pres on down.


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## wicked1Joe

grounder2506 said:


> The Senate today confirmed Obama's Regulatory Czar named Cass Sunstein who is 100% against hunting. He also believes that animals have the right to be represented in court. I guess chickens will be able to sue Perdue, Tyson etc for their rights. This is not a joke look it up. These radicals are out to ruin America. Time to replace them all from Pres on down.



Alot of people don't realize who he is...
he is bringing the downfall of hunting...don't believe it...
then do some research.


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## SC Archer

grounder2506 said:


> The Senate today confirmed Obama's Regulatory Czar named Cass Sunstein who is 100% against hunting. He also believes that animals have the right to be represented in court. I guess chickens will be able to sue Perdue, Tyson etc for their rights. This is not a joke look it up. These radicals are out to ruin America. Time to replace them all from Pres on down.


am i the only one who had a brain fart when he said animals represent themselves in court? how do these liberal democrats know what animals truly want? they one think they know as long as the get whats best for there personal environment they dont care whats truly best for them, whats truly best is what were doing managing deer herds and making healthier habitat and living environment for these animals


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## skwiggsgonewild

you really think they give a rats ass about what is best?  no, they know what's best for THEM and what THEY want and that is all they're concerned with...land of the free, i think not anymore...


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## mod10g

You would think that the people that this country has chosen to look over our country and make it a better ,would try and fix the problems that we are finding ourselves into instead of messing up things that are working great the way they are. The wildlife in our country are at all time high numbers for the most part, sad thing is our manufacturing, and soon our unemployment will be at all time highs as well, but these people .................................... I need a :beer: to settle down before I can continue.


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## Tfox1

I hope the people that voted these morons in get what they wanted.Change is coming.

Sad part is the administration's agenda was not hidden.A little research would tell anyone all they needed to know about them.

But hey,we got change.


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## MTNHunt

Post this over in the political section, I would like to hear what all of the moron's who voted for Obama have to say..............it is sad because actual bowhunters on this site support him.and voted for him I read alot over in that section, but rarely post because the Obama supporters always seem to put a spin on the issues.

If this doesn't get there hair standing up on there backs, they shouldn't even own a gun or bow.


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## Xiisign

Here is a link to a video where he suggests banning hunting all together and also talks about the animals having rights like humans....This guy is an idiot. His speech starts around 39:00

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2586700172704318361#


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## dhvac

MTNHunt said:


> If this doesn't get there hair standing up on there backs, they shouldn't even own a gun or bow.


give it a few years they wont.............. and neither will we


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## AR_Headhunter

& some people said this was insane,
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1011429


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## King Country

:sad: Hope this is all hot air and you guys get it buried, something like this is a good way to screw over anybody that has always wanted to go to the US and do some quality hunting (hope you don't mind a bit of out of state hunting :wink. What happened to land of the free?


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## Reflexman

never ends does it. czar. did not the russians over throw him.


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## dhvac

King Country said:


> What happened to land of the free?



it died with "the home of the brave" people are not brave enough to offend others so now we are giving away our rights as a nation


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## reezen7

MTNHunt said:


> Post this over in the political section, I would like to hear what all of the moron's who voted for Obama have to say..............it is sad because actual bowhunters on this site support him.and voted for him I read alot over in that section, but rarely post because the Obama supporters always seem to put a spin on the issues.
> 
> If this doesn't get there hair standing up on there backs, they shouldn't even own a gun or bow.


i for one did not vote for him :wink:


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## Tfox1

IMO,this is what we have going on today with this administartion and the democratic party in general.

http://www.squidoo.com/howtocatchapig


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## Reflexman

Tfox1 said:


> IMO,this is what we have going on today with this administartion and the democratic party in general.
> 
> http://www.squidoo.com/howtocatchapig


that was interesting story.


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## jesseo

I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot. 

Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do. 

As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials. 

Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?

Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.

:darkbeer:


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## 90-tcom

*Idiot !!*



Xiisign said:


> Here is a link to a video where he suggests banning hunting all together and also talks about the animals having rights like humans....This guy is an idiot. His speech starts around 39:00
> 
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2586700172704318361#


I think he is related to Nancy Pelosi. Might even be the same gender.


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## Reflexman

jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


 At least you voted.


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## MTNHunt

jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


Your are a ***personal attack edited***, and I could care less how to spell it. At 5'11" and 275 I would tell you in person if I could.


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## kenmack

So, Jessio, are you a member of the NRA? That reg Czar will be trying to regulate lead bullets (if EPA doesn't do it first), firearms under product liability law, firearms storage, animal training and every other liberal pipedream that's ever been conceived.


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## ak68

*We are a minority*



jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


Hunters are far outnumbered by non-hunters. Don't believe for an instant that a concerted effort by non-hunters wouldn't be effective. This is the first president that I actually find myself hating for his beliefs, agendas and policies. Obama, his staff, and the leading democrats are the most divisive force I can remember. This is especially disconcerting based on the inflated campaign claims of healing and unity. I didn't buy his bill of goods.


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## rocklocker2

*gee do i have to register all my bowa*

when they started talking about having to declair all my registered gun i did the American rights thing.I sold every one i had that was registered to me or the wife .then i replaced them with unregistered ones.no paper trail here.i do belong to NRA and believe my 2nd amendment rights


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## RecordKeeper

jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


I also voted for him. And would do so again as well. By the way, Internet is a proper noun.:wink:



MTNHunt said:


> Your are a Moron, and I could care less how to spell it. At 5'11" and 275 I would tell you in person if I could.


A "moron" is a person with an IQ ranging from 50 to 75. I think it highly unlikely that jesseo is a moron. Would you feel better if people who are free thinkers are silenced? I sure hope not.

And would you really beat him up in person? :noidea:


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## jim p

I have heard that some things are going to be announced tomorrow that may shake things up for a while. I just hope that it is not too bad.

I wish that people would realize that politics is not a football game and that the results of their vote has consequences. There is no free lunch.


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## jesseo

MTNHunt said:


> Your are a Moron, and I could care less how to spell it. At 5'11" and 275 I would tell you in person if I could.


Ok, then... not man enough, I guess. Have fun being 5'11"and 275. :dontknow: 

Civility is lost on some...


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## RecordKeeper

jesseo said:


> Ok, then... not man enough, I guess. Have fun being 5'11"and 275. :dontknow:
> 
> Civility is lost on some...


There are some right wing extremists that we just have to log onto the liability side of the hunter's rights balance sheet. They aren't worth engaging.:tongue::wink:


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## R. Lang

jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


Wow, thanks for the rant. Everything is much more clear now.......


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## jesseo

RecordKeeper said:


> I also voted for him. And would do so again as well. By the way, Internet is a proper noun.:wink:
> 
> 
> 
> A "moron" is a person with an IQ ranging from 50 to 75. I think it highly unlikely that jesseo is a moron. Would you feel better if people who are free thinkers are silenced? I sure hope not.
> 
> And would you really beat him up in person? :noidea:


Ah yes, "THE" Internet. Good catch. :wink:

Since we're all about bragging about "sizes,"  at an IQ of 147, I would have no problem telling him to his 5'11" face that I'm not a moron. :wink:


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## waylonb19

and my dad could beat up your dad..


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## hawgdawg

NC Archer said:


> am i the only one who had a brain fart when he said animals represent themselves in court? how do these liberal democrats know what animals truly want?


Jackasses should understand the jackasses in Washington.


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## ArrowDucker

A revolution is coming. The constitution of this country is under fire. But all the people that voted for this idiot will be the first ones standing around looking for affirmative action to help them fight for them.

Yeah I know....Its Bush's fault


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## Hutnicks

jesseo said:


> Ah yes, "THE" Internet. Good catch. :wink:
> 
> Since we're all about bragging about "sizes,"  at an IQ of 147, I would have no problem telling him to his 5'11" face that I'm not a moron. :wink:


He'd probably just ask "What religion are _*you*_ then"?

BTW your Meixcan Staring Frog Of Southern Sri Lanka, just cost me 20 IQ points.


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## jesseo

Hutnicks said:


> He'd probably just ask "What religion are _*you*_ then"?
> 
> BTW your Meixcan Staring Frog Of Southern Sri Lanka, just cost me 20 IQ points.


Hahahaha! The world's most popular TV show, _Everybody Loves Hypnotoad_, claims another victim!

:darkbeer:


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## novich69

If after watching the replays of 9/11 today you can still give your aligiance to a president and secretary of state that goes and appologises to the very people who killed all those inocent Americans,you should hang your head in shame! You might be happy to call him you president,but I never will. Im not a socialist nor will I follow one! Nor will I follow one that is ashamed to be an American!


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## MTNHunt

jesseo said:


> Ah yes, "THE" Internet. Good catch. :wink:
> 
> Since we're all about bragging about "sizes,"  at an IQ of 147, I would have no problem telling him to his 5'11" face that I'm not a moron. :wink:


IQ and Common Sense are two different things. America is in for a long downward roller coaster ride, but come next election time it will be different. I just hope the USA and our rights will last that long under this adminstration.

Sorry that you want to put the spin of being civil, because I can still voice my opinions however I want to for now and will. And, I hope that MORE POLITICIANS WILL SPEAK UP and fight this nonsense. So, start picking on the other posters, because you will have alot of typing to do on this forum with your 147 point IQ and not enough sense to realize that the rights that founded this Country are being attacked by the current administration. 

52% disapproval rating and it is growing.


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## MTNHunt

novich69 said:


> If after watching the replays of 9/11 today you can still give your aligiance to a president and secretary of state that goes and appologises to the very people who killed all those inocent Americans,you should hang your head in shame! You might be happy to call him you president,but I never will. Im not a socialist nor will I follow one! Nor will I follow one that is ashamed to be an American!


+2, I agree with you.


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## kenmack

An IQ of 147 and he voted for Obama? Something's not right there. At least we have a good spell checker now.


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## MTNHunt

Well Well Well, his IQ and sensing a threat got me an infraction of 3 points, good grief. Is this America any more? 

Enough SAID, I will not post on this anymore.


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## xwinderx

novich69 said:


> If after watching the replays of 9/11 today you can still give your aligiance to a president and secretary of state that goes and appologises to the very people who killed all those inocent Americans,you should hang your head in shame! You might be happy to call him you president,but I never will. Im not a socialist nor will I follow one! Nor will I follow one that is ashamed to be an American!


He's not MY president.


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## sawtoothscream

909bowsniper said:


> Alot of people don't realize who he is...
> he is bringing the downfall of hunting...don't believe it...
> then do some research.


he isnt going to stop me from hunting. F him.

Canada???


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## Deer3083

RK would vote for him again. So you care nothing for our founding fathers and our constitution. Fair enough RK. I dont care to help defend you if the time were to come either. You help to tear this country apart and when things start happening you dont like you will be looking for the other party to help heal this country again. Why the hell should we? Why should anyone help your party at all if you were to ever need it? And yes I know you will come back at me with some wise crack remark with rolling eyes as you usually do cause we are just right wing extremist and nothing could possibly happen where this country gets torn into 2. As I have said before your for the most part pretty level headed but when it comes to politics and knowing whats best for this country your selfish and very confused.


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## RecordKeeper

MTNHunt said:


> Well Well Well, his IQ and sensing a threat got me an infraction of 3 points, good grief. Is this America any more?
> 
> Enough SAID, I will not post on this anymore.


Learn from it. Argue your position without resorting to name-calling toward those who do not share your opinion. After all, if you really are a supporter of American values...surely you can respect those who have a different opinion than you do...that's what freedom is all about!:tongue:


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## jesseo

MTNHunt said:


> IQ and Common Sense are two different things. America is in for a long downward roller coaster ride, but come next election time it will be different. I just hope the USA and our rights will last that long under this adminstration.
> 
> Sorry that you want to put the spin of being civil, because I can still voice my opinions however I want to for now and will. And, I hope that MORE POLITICIANS WILL SPEAK UP and fight this nonsense. So, start picking on the other posters, because you will have alot of typing to do on this forum with your 147 point IQ and not enough sense to realize that the rights that founded this Country are being attacked by the current administration.
> 
> 52% disapproval rating and it is growing.


You have a right to say whatever you want, but it also reflects on the type of person you are. I'm all for you voicing your opinion wherever and whenever you like... it makes it easy to see who is level-headed and who is not.

People see what they want to see. You see the President taking a leak on the Bill of Rights... whatever. 

Politically, yes, the pendulum will swing back the other way. It may be in 2010, 2012, or who knows how much later... but that's what pendulums do. I'm darn glad no one is in charge of this country for more than four years at a time, and no more than 8 in a row... regardless of party affiliations.


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## RecordKeeper

Deer3083 said:


> RK would vote for him again. So you care nothing for our founding fathers and our constitution. Fair enough RK. I dont care to help defend you if the time were to come either. You help to tear this country apart and when things start happening you dont like you will be looking for the other party to help heal this country again. Why the hell should we? Why should anyone help your party at all if you were to ever need it? And yes I know you will come back at me with some wise crack remark with rolling eyes as you usually do cause we are just right wing extremist and nothing could possibly happen where this country gets torn into 2. As I have said before your for the most part pretty level headed but when it comes to politics and knowing whats best for this country your selfish and very confused.


Ah...we meet again my Deer friend! So I'm "selfish and very confused" for expressing my opinion. That's OK...I respect your opinion...and still call you a friend!:hug: No wise cracks or rolling eyes for you today. I'm a right-winger myself...who is just very unhappy with the leadership of the party. Perhaps things will change over the next three years, and we can elect a true visionary like Huckabee!:tongue:


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## tomk09

jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


excuse me for asking but i've never really had the chance to ask this question due to the fact that i don't personally know anyone who voted for him. why did you vote for Obama ?


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## Deer3083

RecordKeeper said:


> Ah...we meet again my Deer friend! So I'm "selfish and very confused" for expressing my opinion. That's OK...I respect your opinion...and still call you a friend!:hug: No wise cracks or rolling eyes for you today. I'm a right-winger myself...who is just very unhappy with the leadership of the party. Perhaps things will change over the next three years, and we can elect a true visionary like Huckabee!:tongue:


Do you not care about the damage Obama has caused already? Do you not realize your part at fault for helping him i the whitehouse? He has spent more than any president in history. Maybe your kids are grown but I have yet to have any and now you helped my future children into a massive debt. This is why I call you selfish my archery friend. You seem to not care about the children of this country or their future.


----------



## shortarrow

*not morons*

i wouldn't call the OStalin voters morons. they are just people wjo need the comfort of the government controlling them, mind and body. they do not enjoy the freedom of choice as they are afraid of making the wrong ones. i will say this. I GUARANTEE and no i cannot prove it, the average IQ of voters against OSTALIN would far exceed the average IQ of those who voted for him. and yes my balls do get bigger on the internet. i might as well take advantage of the freedoms i have on here before the Government begins to "regulate" THE INTERNET. the reason being, us EVIL WHITE MALES who try to succeed and greedily make a lot of money will be using it to spread hatred and repression of poor minorities. i mean, how the hell can we have affirmaTIVE ACTION IN A COUNTRY TO ADVANCE A RACE THAT IS SO OPPRESSED ONE OF IT'S MEMBERS WAS VOTED for freakin president. gOD I AM GOING IN CIRCLES HERE. SORRY BUT I CAN'T BELIEVE THE SHEEPLE REALLY VOTED IN A SOCIALIST. In New Yourk they had a promotion test for i believe firefighters. either it was NOT ONE or NOT ENOUGH people of color passed it so they THREW OUT THE RESULTS OF THE TEST. that is liberalism


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## jamesbowman

Bless ol Jesseo's heart, at least he admits voting for our fine liberal anti hunting president. I can't hardly find any of my buddies who will admit they voted for him when I know they did. People knew up front what he stood for but yet they still voted for him, and we are just beginning to see the groanings against the good ol boy ******** hunters, that by the way helped build America. May God bless the USA even if we have lost our minds in who we vote into office. But the question is- will He?


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## ericjames

All i am gonna say is that i think everyone who voted for him regrets it now . i am glad i did not even think of it ,i did not even look at his name


:elf_moon:


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## M-Tecs

I work with a couple of people that flat out communists. They truly are part of the blame (hate) America first crowd. I totally disagree with 100% of their beliefs and vision for the US, however, I do respect the fact that they are honest in that they state that America is the problem and they want to change almost everything that I believe makes America great. While I strongly disagree with their views I can understand and respect that they stand up for their position. 

What I cannot understand or respect are all the people who deny what this administration is and what it is doing to the values that made America the greatest country the world has ever seen. How can you support an administration that is bankrupting the country and systematical undermining our rights, values and constitution unless you are part of the hate America first crowd? 

RK if this administration is able to accomplish their stated goals what will be left of the US? We will be a bankrupt socialist county with a third rate military. RK is that what you want????????????? RK please explain to me how bankrupting the county, gutting the military and the constitution is a good thing?


----------



## jesseo

Deer3083 said:


> RK would vote for him again. So you care nothing for our founding fathers and our constitution. Fair enough RK. I dont care to help defend you if the time were to come either. You help to tear this country apart and when things start happening you dont like you will be looking for the other party to help heal this country again. Why the hell should we? Why should anyone help your party at all if you were to ever need it? And yes I know you will come back at me with some wise crack remark with rolling eyes as you usually do cause we are just right wing extremist and nothing could possibly happen where this country gets torn into 2. As I have said before your for the most part pretty level headed but when it comes to politics and knowing whats best for this country your selfish and very confused.


Please show me the amendments to the Constitution that President Obama has written and passed during the past year. Show me _how you know_ he doesn't care how this country was founded. Show me _how you know_ RK doesn't care about the Constitution. Show me how black and white your world really is.

I have news for you... our founding fathers... _the Federalists_... based their political party on an elite few leaders knowing what is best for the rest of the country. George Washington and John Adams stood watch over our young country with those beliefs. Then guess what happened? Thomas Jefferson won the next election, and power moved away from a strong federal government. The people of this country recognized a strong leader with intelligence and civility who could lead them away from where they felt the country was headed. The pendulum has swung predictably back and forth ever since, while those on the opposite side of the swing have always fumed about those in office and been a bit overdramatic. I know I'm guilty as charged during the previous administration. :embara: Over the last 8 years, some people on the left accused Bush of the same type of thing the right is accusing Obama of doing. It's nothing new. 

We've all got a long life to live, and during these times when the country is so sharply divided, I choose to look at the long-term picture. I encourage everyone to organize and participate in the political process to accomplish your goals, and trust in the pendulum. Even the worst decisions in our country's history don't last forever... Prohibition was only around for 13 years. :darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer:


----------



## RecordKeeper

Deer3083 said:


> Do you not care about the damage Obama has caused already? Do you not realize your part at fault for helping him i the whitehouse? He has spent more than any president in history. Maybe your kids are grown but I have yet to have any and now you helped my future children into a massive debt. This is why I call you selfish my archery friend. You seem to not care about the children of this country or their future.


I can't believe that I'm going to be pulled into such a debate, but here goes. And we'll probably get this thread tossed straight into the RPM forum!

Economically speaking, good fiscal policy dictates that during a boom economy government should operate at a surplus (see final two years of Clinton administration), and during bad economic times, government should operate at a deficit...essentially pushing cash into the economy.

That said, some of the current administration spending I agree with...such as the build up of troops in Afghanistan, TARP, and Cash for Clunkers. All of these programs help people and businesses that serve our communities well. The economic stimulus package concentrated on building the US infrastructure. The jury is still out on this one, but rebuilding Interstates and crumbling bridges is a good idea...we'll have to wait and see if the appropriated funds really do go where they are supposed to.

Health care reform is a good idea too. Too many hard working Americans don't have access to good care. But if it ends up as an encouragement to illegal immigration...then I'll be the first to be pissed off. I'm hoping that some good legislation can be hammered out on this matter.


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## mason79

i voted for obama, and as of now i would do it again. hopefully i dont ever regret that decision.


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## jamesbowman

For the record- I am a WV *******, I eat deer meat, wild turkey and squirrels, and not afraid of a gut pile and don't live in fantasy world where I think nothing dies even if it is laying on the table dead and cooked. I don't like guys who hold hands and dress like girls and I didn't vote for Obama! And if you think he is good for this country then you might not be a ******* but a city boy!


----------



## jesseo

tomk09 said:


> excuse me for asking but i've never really had the chance to ask this question due to the fact that i don't personally know anyone who voted for him. why did you vote for Obama ?


No one? Wow. I have many friends on both sides of the political spectrum. I voted for Obama because I felt he was the better leader for our country, and (like those who lean to the right now feel), I didn't like the direction the Republican executives were taking the country. Same reasons, different opinions. That's why we vote for President every 4 years. 

I have voted for Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Libertarians, Greens, and American Idols... whoever I felt was best for the job at the time. I remember being a bit annoying at times whenever I felt the wrong person was in office, so I don't hold it against any of you hardcore Conservatives for speaking out. I have learned to be more level-headed since then, and to not view things as black and white anymore.


----------



## M-Tecs

jesseo said:


> People see what they want to see. You see the President taking a leak on the Bill of Rights... whatever.
> 
> Politically, yes, the pendulum will swing back the other way. It may be in 2010, 2012, or who knows how much later... but that's what pendulums do. I'm darn glad no one is in charge of this country for more than four years at a time, and no more than 8 in a row... regardless of party affiliations.


Pendulum swings are normal and natural, however, history shows with each swing the center moves to the left and becomes more and more economically unsustainable. Can the US survive and recover from the 12 to 16 trillion dollar deficit that the CBO is projecting? I believe that is about a 5 million dollar per household debt.


----------



## mason79

jamesbowman said:


> For the record- I am a WV *******, I eat deer meat, wild turkey and squirrels, and not afraid of a gut pile and don't live in fantasy world where I think nothing dies even if it is laying on the table dead and cooked. I don't like guys who hold hands and dress like girls and I didn't vote for Obama! And if you think he is good for this country then you might not be a ******* but a city boy!


like i said i voted for him and i am far from a city boy.


----------



## MTNHunt

jesseo said:


> You have a right to say whatever you want, but it also reflects on the type of person you are. I'm all for you voicing your opinion wherever and whenever you like... it makes it easy to see who is level-headed and who is not.
> 
> People see what they want to see. You see the President taking a leak on the Bill of Rights... whatever.
> 
> Politically, yes, the pendulum will swing back the other way. It may be in 2010, 2012, or who knows how much later... but that's what pendulums do. I'm darn glad no one is in charge of this country for more than four years at a time, and no more than 8 in a row... regardless of party affiliations.


If it walks like a DUCK, quacks like a Duck.....I call em a Duck. Plain and SIMPLE. Sorry you can't see the Deer in the headlights.:zip:


----------



## jesseo

MTNHunt said:


> If it walks like a DUCK, quacks like a Duck.....I call em a Duck. Plain and SIMPLE. Sorry you can't see the Deer in the headlights.:zip:


I can appreciate your honesty. :zip:


----------



## M-Tecs

jesseo said:


> Even the worst decisions in our country's history don't last forever... Prohibition was only around for 13 years. :darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer:


Bankrupt is Bankrupt and in terms of a death of a county it is forever!!!!!!!


----------



## willyd5

Ted Nugent for president!!!!


----------



## rholly9135

jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


Hear hear jesseo. I am in complete agreement. And to all you who think the obama administration will do away with your hunting rights you have been severely misinformed. Hunting is sooo much more than animal rights. We hunt to put food on the table. We hunt to keep animal herds down. The administration realizes this and will not do anything to effect this. And yes I voted for obama and would not consider myself a MORON


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## typical2

Hey...I'm against animal suffering. That's why I shoot a lot and shoot a big broadhead!:wink: 

Killem quick


----------



## red x

sawtoothscream said:


> he isnt going to stop me from hunting. F him.
> 
> Canada???


Canada is great for hunting... Come over and bring your busness here! :embara:


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## Tfox1

red x said:


> Canada is great for hunting... Come over and bring your busness here! :embara:


Just leave our guns at home ,right.:darkbeer:

I hope we don't end up with your health care system.


----------



## Deer3083

RecordKeeper said:


> I can't believe that I'm going to be pulled into such a debate, but here goes. And we'll probably get this thread tossed straight into the RPM forum!
> 
> Economically speaking, good fiscal policy dictates that during a boom economy government should operate at a surplus (see final two years of Clinton administration), and during bad economic times, government should operate at a deficit...essentially pushing cash into the economy.
> 
> That said, some of the current administration spending I agree with...such as the build up of troops in Afghanistan, TARP, and Cash for Clunkers. All of these programs help people and businesses that serve our communities well. The economic stimulus package concentrated on building the US infrastructure. The jury is still out on this one, but rebuilding Interstates and crumbling bridges is a good idea...we'll have to wait and see if the appropriated funds really do go where they are supposed to.
> 
> Health care reform is a good idea too. Too many hard working Americans don't have access to good care. But if it ends up as an encouragement to illegal immigration...then I'll be the first to be pissed off. I'm hoping that some good legislation can be hammered out on this matter.


Yes health care reform is most certainly needed but I have no faith that the current administration will reform it to this countries benefit. It will be reformed with the democrats and minorites to benefit from. Any way nothing any of you who voted for him can hide the fact he elected a person wanting to ban hunting and our right to hunt. There for Obama is to blame and he is all for banning our right to bare arms as well. Same as Clinton was but the republican party was too strong then and it is very weak now.


----------



## M-Tecs

rholly9135 said:


> Hear hear jesseo. I am in complete agreement. And to all you who think the obama administration will do away with your hunting rights you have been severely misinformed. Hunting is sooo much more than animal rights. We hunt to put food on the table. We hunt to keep animal herds down. The administration realizes this and will not do anything to effect this. And yes I voted for obama and would not consider myself a MORON


Others may not share your viewpoint about the MORON thing!!!!!!!!! You need to do a little research into the various state level hunting bans currently in place. It’s happening at the State level and it WILL happen at the Federal level also. Bears and mountain lions are cases in point.


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## RecordKeeper

Deer3083 said:


> Yes health care reform is most certainly needed but I have no faith that the current administration will reform it to this countries benefit. It will be reformed with the democrats and minorites to benefit from. Any way nothing any of you who voted for him can hide the fact he elected a person wanting to ban hunting and our right to hunt. There for Obama is to blame and he is all for banning our right to bare arms as well. Same as Clinton was but the republican party was too strong then and it is very weak now.


You are right in so many ways. The original point of this thread was the past statements made by the "Regulatory Czar," with which of course I vehemently disagree. However, I couldn't help but to project humorous scenarios in my mind. Example, an animal suing a person...with human representation. Everyone in this country has the right to face their accuser in court. Somehow I can't get rid of the hilarious mental picture of a deer in the witness stand testifying about how my rage broadhead was too devistating to his poor body as it flew at 253 fps out of my 54 pound Martin MOAB! 

I'm sorry, but it is just too ridiculous to even be taken seriously.


----------



## Deer3083

RecordKeeper said:


> You are right in so many ways. The original point of this thread was the past statements made by the "Regulatory Czar," with which of course I vehemently disagree. However, I couldn't help but to project humorous scenarios in my mind. Example, an animal suing a person...with human representation. Everyone in this country has the right to face their accuser in court. Somehow I can't get rid of the hilarious mental picture of a deer in the witness stand testifying about how my rage broadhead was too devistating to his poor body as it flew at 253 fps out of my 54 pound Martin MOAB!
> 
> I'm sorry, but it is just too ridiculous to even be taken seriously.


Yeah that mental picture is one to laugh at


----------



## red x

Tfox1 said:


> Just leave our guns at home ,right.:darkbeer:
> 
> I hope we don't end up with your health care system.


:darkbeer: no to FREE health care? :wink: Sure few things take some time to do, but FREE~

And from what I hear lot of ppl are bringing guns over. But bows are better anyway!


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## jth091

And these are the people say that abortion is ok but killing an animal is wrong.These are sick twisted people.


----------



## jesseo

Deer3083 said:


> Any way nothing any of you who voted for him can hide the fact he elected a person wanting to ban hunting and our right to hunt. There for Obama is to blame and he is all for banning our right to bare arms as well.


Not only has Sunstein endorsed the Supreme Court’s pro-gun ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, but in an article in the Harvard Law Review, Sunstein argued for broader gun rights, writing:

"[The Second Amendment] has a unique status in contemporary American culture; it has been recognized as a right, and with great intensity, by citizens and politicians *of both parties*. An interpretation of the Founding document that denied the right would likely create forms of public outrage, political polarization, and social disruption that have not been seen in many decades. Out of respect for the intensely felt convictions of millions of Americans, and with concern for the risks of potential disruption, perhaps the Court should hesitate before denying the right."

In a July letter to Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss, Sunstein restated his long-standing views on the Second Amendment:

"*I strongly believe that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to possess and use guns for purposes of both hunting and self-defense*. I agree with the Supreme Court’s decision in the Heller case, clearly recognizing the individual right to have guns for hunting and self-defense. If confirmed, I would respect the Second Amendment and the individual right that it recognizes."
****************

It pays to turn off the talk radio and do some research once in a while. I got all of this from a Conservative Republican website, and checked it with independent sources. Everything here is genuine.


----------



## rholly9135

Here in montana we have the ability to hunt just about anything as long as it is not endangered. We often have extended seasons b/c we have too large a population. montana will never let their hunting right be taken away, and I really don't see anyone trying.
As for this post. I really think someone needs to put an end to this post. We are severely polarized and split as a country. Half the country hates the other half. Archery talk is a place where we can get together and chat about archery and hunting. Why do we have to bring politics into this. You hate me simply b/c I voted for Obama and you don't even know me. Lets keep this site for what it is here for and not discuss who or what f'd up this country so bad. In the end it will be the money hungry greedy corrupt politicians (republican/democrat/obama/palin/mccain) mess up this country and it will be about a lot more than just gun rights being taken away


----------



## jesseo

RecordKeeper said:


> You are right in so many ways. The original point of this thread was the past statements made by the "Regulatory Czar," with which of course I vehemently disagree. However, I couldn't help but to project humorous scenarios in my mind. Example, an animal suing a person...with human representation. Everyone in this country has the right to face their accuser in court. Somehow I can't get rid of the hilarious mental picture of a deer in the witness stand testifying about how my rage broadhead was too devistating to his poor body as it flew at 253 fps out of my 54 pound Martin MOAB!
> 
> I'm sorry, but it is just too ridiculous to even be taken seriously.


I think your accuser would more likely be "the estate of A. Deer (deceased)," and you would be facing murder 1. You killed him and then ATE him!!! You are sick, my friend. :wink:


----------



## wicked1Joe

novich69 said:


> If after watching the replays of 9/11 today you can still give your aligiance to a president and secretary of state that goes and appologises to the very people who killed all those inocent Americans,you should hang your head in shame! You might be happy to call him you president,but I never will. Im not a socialist nor will I follow one! Nor will I follow one that is ashamed to be an American!



Very well said....I am right along with ya


----------



## RecordKeeper

909bowsniper said:


> Very well said....I am right along with ya


Obama apologized to al Queda? I challenge you to prove that.


----------



## Deer3083

jesseo said:


> Not only has Sunstein endorsed the Supreme Court’s pro-gun ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, but in an article in the Harvard Law Review, Sunstein argued for broader gun rights, writing:
> 
> "[The Second Amendment] has a unique status in contemporary American culture; it has been recognized as a right, and with great intensity, by citizens and politicians *of both parties*. An interpretation of the Founding document that denied the right would likely create forms of public outrage, political polarization, and social disruption that have not been seen in many decades. Out of respect for the intensely felt convictions of millions of Americans, and with concern for the risks of potential disruption, perhaps the Court should hesitate before denying the right."
> 
> In a July letter to Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss, Sunstein restated his long-standing views on the Second Amendment:
> 
> "*I strongly believe that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to possess and use guns for purposes of both hunting and self-defense*. I agree with the Supreme Court’s decision in the Heller case, clearly recognizing the individual right to have guns for hunting and self-defense. If confirmed, I would respect the Second Amendment and the individual right that it recognizes."
> ****************
> 
> It pays to turn off the talk radio and do some research once in a while. I got all of this from a Conservative Republican website, and checked it with independent sources. Everything here is genuine.


Umm I said Obama is anti gun and that he was very much to blame for having a person by his side who is all for banning hunting. I stated 2 seperate issues Obama was at fault for. I said nothing about Sunstein not being for guns.


----------



## trlcavscout

King Country said:


> :sad: Hope this is all hot air and you guys get it buried


Buried? Roger that, I'll start digging :brave:


----------



## poobear

*Bigger*

Lets look past the political arena and into something bigger . The wheels were set in motion a long time ago and as the little fox spoils the vine the persuasiveness of suttle influence causes us to GIVE up a little more of the foundation of truth until we think our captivity is freedom and our dependency compassion. God help America


----------



## jesseo

Deer3083 said:


> Umm I said Obama is anti gun and that he was very much to blame for having a person by his side who is all for banning hunting. I stated 2 seperate issues Obama was at fault for. I said nothing about Sunstein not being for guns.


I understood "a person by his side" to be Sunstein by Obama's side, especially since this thread is about him taking away hunting rights and all... I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but I'm still glad I posted his REAL views on hunting and the second amendment.


----------



## Tfox1

red x said:


> :darkbeer: no to FREE health care? :wink: Sure few things take some time to do, but FREE~
> 
> And from what I hear lot of ppl are bringing guns over. But bows are better anyway!


NOTHING is free.I kinda like the quality of the care we have as well.


----------



## wicked1Joe

jesseo said:


> I understood "a person by his side" to be Sunstein by Obama's side, especially since this thread is about him taking away hunting rights and all... I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but I'm still glad I posted his REAL views on hunting and the second amendment.


We will actually see what the REAL Sunstein is and does in a year or so...
that will tell all.
I don't believe what any politician tells me or authors in writing or otherwise....but his actions will display the man for what he is or isn't.

Same goes for Obama...


----------



## RecordKeeper

909bowsniper said:


> We will actually see what the REAL Sunstein is and does in a year or so...
> that will tell all.
> I don't believe what any politician tells me or authors in writing or otherwise....but his actions will display the man for what he is or isn't.
> 
> Same goes for Obama...


Time, indeed, will be the test for all politicians. Great post!:darkbeer:


----------



## abps1

I can tell some of you have not lived in a politically corrupt state like Illinois. You would be shocked at some of the decisions being made so I wouldn't automatically assume hunting will never be banned. I think the chances are rather slim that hunting will be banned. However, how we hunt, when we hunt, where we hunt, or what we hunt with could easily change.


----------



## abps1

RecordKeeper said:


> Health care reform is a good idea too. Too many hard working Americans don't have access to good care. But if it ends up as an encouragement to illegal immigration...then I'll be the first to be pissed off. I'm hoping that some good legislation can be hammered out on this matter.


Common sense health care reform is a good idea but I can guarantee you that is not what will come out of Washington. I have to pay my monthly insurance premiums and they are not cheap. I already pay more than I should in taxes. Able bodied adults getting free health care off my hard work pisses me off, I don't care if they are illegal immigrants or not. No good legislation will come of health care reform. I do not need politicians making decisions about my health care for me.


----------



## RecordKeeper

abps1 said:


> I can tell some of you have not lived in a politically corrupt state like Illinois. You would be shocked at some of the decisions being made so I wouldn't automatically assume hunting will never be banned. I think the chances are rather slim that hunting will be banned. However, how we hunt, when we hunt, where we hunt, or what we hunt with could easily change.


Is Illinois more politically corrupt than Alabama? Two of our last three governors are now convicted felons. You're just playing catch-up!


----------



## wicked1Joe

abps1 said:


> Common sense health care reform is a good idea. I have to pay my monthly premiums and they are not cheap. I already pay more than I should in taxes. Able bodied adults getting free health care off my hard work pisses me off, I don't care if they are illegal immigrants or not. No good legislation will come of health care reform. I do not want politicians making such a big decision for me.


If you lived in California you would care if they were legal or not...

I do agree on all aspects otherwise contained in your post...


----------



## jesseo

909bowsniper said:


> We will actually see what the REAL Sunstein is and does on a year or so...
> that will tell all.
> I don't believe what any politician tells me or authors in writing or otherwise....but his actions will display the man for what he is or isn't.
> 
> Same goes for Obama...


That post was about his actions. he publicly endorsed GW Bush's appointment of Chief Supreme Court Justice John Roberts, who ended up being the deciding vote in District of Columbia vs Heller (2008), which was the most important ruling in favor of gun ownership rights in a long time. Between that, and his genuine (aka "not things Glen Beck attributes to him") comments, such as the ones I posted, I would say his actions are fairly clear. 

However, time will tell, like you said. I guess I'm an optimist.


----------



## marku

This is what I learned over the years living about 2 miles from Springfield Illinos (the capitol). Chicago politics are Chicago politics. Theres a ring in Chicago and that how you work your way up the line. Our current President has hung out with the same people that Rod Blagovich has associated himselft with. For example, Tony Resko met him in the early 90's his track record speak for himself or Rahm Emanuel (Cheif of Staff0 which was a big influence on the Cook County ban of weapons in Chicago. So to all that want to look into the future the anwsers are all in the past. I recall when Rod Bago was running for governor the first time. He had signs all over western Illinois "Blagovich for Sportsman" signs. Well he didnt do anything for sportsman. Instead he took money that was suppose to be used towards the IDNR and used it elsewhere. My whole main point here is you cant trust a politician from Chicago. So when some think its absured to think that someone would give animals right... Think again. There are people out there that want to stop what most of use on this site love to do and will do or try anything to do excute it.


----------



## RecordKeeper

abps1 said:


> Common sense health care reform is a good idea. I have to pay my monthly premiums and they are not cheap. Able bodied adults getting free health care off my hard work pisses me off, I don't care if they are illegal immigrants or not. No good legislation will come of health care reform. I do not want politicians making such a big decision for me.


Actually, I have to agree with you. And I'll give you numbers to back up my opinion.

I retired in 2008. After 23 years of government service with the Treasury Department, my pension is $788 per month (It could have been $798, but I elected to pay $10 per month to ensure that it would pay my wife $788 per month in the event that I pass within the next 10 years). I am allowed to carry my subsidized healthcare into retirement (thank goodness)...at what was $290 per year last year, but it increased to $356 this year. So this gives me all of $432 per month to live on. No wonder I have to give up Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale for Milwaukee's Best Lite!


----------



## bowmanhunter

*I tried*

*I tried to help.................*

Thank you for using U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance Mail System.

Message sent to the following recipients:
Senator Brown
Senator Voinovich

September 3, 2009

Dear Senator Brown
Dear Senator Voinovich

I am writing to express my concern to you over the nomination of Cass 
Sunstein to serve as the head of the Office of Information and Regulatory 
Affairs (OIRA). 

Mr. Sunstein is a dedicated anti-hunter and avid animal rights supporter. 
He has argued in favor of allowing animals to sue people in court and 
stated that we "we might ban hunting altogether, at least if it's sole 
purpose is human recreation."

If confirmed by the Senate, he will be in a central position to block or 
overturn regulations that protect hunting, fishing, trapping and 
conservation in general. 

Please oppose the Cass Sunstein nomination. I hope that you will be able 
to help and look forward to hearing your response.

Sincerely,


Bowmanhunter:wink:


----------



## abps1

RecordKeeper said:


> Is Illinois more politically corrupt than Alabama? Two of our last three governors are now convicted felons. You're just playing catch-up!


Ever heard of George Ryan and Rod Blagojevich?

Pretty sad. That is exactly why I do not want these idiots (politicians in general) making decisions about health care.


----------



## flyfisher117

*omg*

why cant people get that humans hunting animals is just the circle of life!!!

a wolf kills a deer to survive, most people like me kill a deer to survive... i cant figure out why people keep saying that hunting is sooo inhumane.. but maybe all hunters need to not hunt for a year and when the deer population gets so bad that they start eating all these tree huggers homes they will see just how beneficial we can be


----------



## bowmanhunter

*How to start each day with a positive outlook*

Some may also find comfort in doing this:wink:

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

1. Open a new file in your computer.

2. Name it "Barack Obama."

3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.

4. Empty the Recycle Bin.

5. Your PC will ask you: "Do you really want to get rid of "Barack Obama?"

6. Firmly Click "Yes."

7. Feel better?


GOOD! - Tomorrow we'll do Nancy Pelosi.

*One
Big
Arse
Mistake
America*


----------



## RecordKeeper

abps1 said:


> Ever heard of George Ryan and Rod Blagojevich?
> 
> Pretty sad. That is exactly why I do not want these idiots (politicians in general) making decisions about health care.


See post 91 above. I know of Rod, but not George Ryan. I distinctly remember Blagojevich on the Letterman show...but have no idea why Dave didn't fry him like he should have. :noidea:


----------



## marku

George Ryan was convicted on corruption charges. Ryan was found guilty on all 18 counts of steering state business to cronies for bribes, of gutting corruption-fighting efforts to protect political fundraising and of misusing state resources for political gain.


Typical Chicago politics.


----------



## ericjames

willyd5 said:


> ted nugent for president!!!!


+ 1


----------



## abps1

RecordKeeper said:


> Actually, I have to agree with you. And I'll give you numbers to back up my opinion.
> 
> I retired in 2008. After 23 years of government service with the Treasury Department, my pension is $788 per month (It could have been $798, but I elected to pay $10 per month to ensure that it would pay my wife $788 per month in the event that I pass within the next 10 years). I am allowed to carry my subsidized healthcare into retirement (thank goodness)...at what was $290 per year last year, but it increased to $356 this year. So this gives me all of $432 per month to live on. No wonder I have to give up Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale for Milwaukee's Best Lite!


People are getting gouged on health care and health care premiums. Something needs to be done about it but I really hope that does not mean just giving free health care to everyone. I just have 0 confidence in any politician these days


----------



## RecordKeeper

flyfisher117 said:


> why cant people get that humans hunting animals is just the circle of life!!!
> 
> a wolf kills a deer to survive, most people like me kill a deer to survive... i cant figure out why people keep saying that hunting is sooo inhumane.. but maybe all hunters need to not hunt for a year and when the deer population gets so bad that they start eating all these tree huggers homes they will see just how beneficial we can be


I'll give you an economic example. If you add up the cost of hunting deer "to survive", I'm willing to bet that you spend more per pound of meat than you would to purchase fillet's at the grocery store, let alone ground beef. So in reality, it doesn't make economic sense to hunt. We as hunters need to formulate better arguments.

That said, are we on the top of the food chain? Of course. Few of us are eaten, but we eat many. We really need to focus on the real enemies of hunting instead of bickering amongst ourselves. HSUS is the most powerful of our enemies. In reality, Sunstein is among the least of our legitimate concerns...:tongue:


----------



## jesseo

flyfisher117 said:


> why cant people get that humans hunting animals is just the circle of life!!!
> 
> a wolf kills a deer to survive, most people like me kill a deer to survive... i cant figure out why people keep saying that hunting is sooo inhumane.. but maybe all hunters need to not hunt for a year and when the deer population gets so bad that they start eating all these tree huggers homes they will see just how beneficial we can be


"Humane" is just a made-up word coined by people who are egotistical enough to think that humans are not a part of nature... at least when it is applied to hunting. The more we try to distance ourselves from the other living things on this planet, and the circle in which they exist, the farther we fall from reality.


----------



## Tfox1

RecordKeeper said:


> I'll give you an economic example. If you add up the cost of hunting deer "to survive", I'm willing to bet that you spend more per pound of meat than you would to purchase fillet's at the grocery store, let alone ground beef. * So in reality, it doesn't make economic sense to hunt. * We as hunters need to formulate better arguments.
> 
> That said, are we on the top of the food chain? Of course. Few of us are eaten, but we eat many. We really need to focus on the real enemies of hunting instead of bickering amongst ourselves. HSUS is the most powerful of our enemies. In reality, Sunstein is among the least of our legitimate concerns...:tongue:


Tell that to the insurance companies that PAY to fix cars from deer hit and emergency rooms that take care of people from the results of these accidents.

It DOES make economical sense.


----------



## Tfox1

Tfox1 said:


> Tell that to the insurance companies that PAY to fix cars from deer hit and emergency rooms that take care of people from the results of these accidents.
> 
> It DOES make economical sense.


Or to the farmer that loses bushels from cropdamage due to animal consumption.


----------



## jesseo

RecordKeeper said:


> I'll give you an economic example. If you add up the cost of hunting deer "to survive", I'm willing to bet that you spend more per pound of meat than you would to purchase fillet's at the grocery store, let alone ground beef. So in reality, it doesn't make economic sense to hunt. We as hunters need to formulate better arguments.
> 
> That said, are we on the top of the food chain? Of course. Few of us are eaten, but we eat many. We really need to focus on the real enemies of hunting instead of bickering amongst ourselves. HSUS is the most powerful of our enemies. In reality, Sunstein is among the least of our legitimate concerns...:tongue:


I agree. HSUS and PETA are far more organized and formidable than any politician could ever be. Those groups have ONE agenda, and they throw all of their considerable influence behind it. Politicians, on the other hand, are dealing with literally thousands of different issues at one time, and can be easily swayed on one issue by a motivated group like HSUS or PETA.


----------



## RecordKeeper

marku said:


> George Ryan was convicted on corruption charges. Ryan was found guilty on all 18 counts of steering state business to cronies for bribes, of gutting corruption-fighting efforts to protect political fundraising and of misusing state resources for political gain.
> 
> 
> Typical Chicago politics.


Thanks for the education. I learned something today...Alabama and Illinois are tied!



abps1 said:


> People are getting gouged on health care and health care premiums. Something needs to be done about it but I really hope that does not mean just giving free health care to everyone. I just have 0 confidence in any politician these days


I have little confidence myself. But I do believe that every legal citizen should have access to good health care. I don't have the answer, but I know the system is broken. I have clients who are cardiologists and make $100,000 per month. I don't begrudge them for one minute. Two of them are famous archers/hunters. If you are well versed in hunting celebrities, you'd recognize at least one of them if not both. I have seen both at multiple ATA shows.

However, I don't discount my right and ability to be treated by them in favor of someone who cannot afford the same care. Somehow, to do so would just be wrong. As I said, I don't have the answer. But I do know that the system needs to be adjusted, if not totally revamped.


----------



## toad400

I did not vote for our current president and did vote against him, 

I believe everyone has the right to express their feelings without getting bashed and I hate to see us as sportsmen arguing, I just hope all those complaining voted, I dont think half the people I hear b****ing ( not just on AT) voted so its their fault also, 

For now this is still a free country and we are all intitled to an opinion and can voice it without fear, I hope to never see otherwise.

We have to remember some people voted because of issues close to them and what was of the most importance at the time, you have to remember that hunting may not be on top of everyones list as reason to elect someone, some feel their jobs are on the line every election day

Besides my moral beliefs , hunting and the second ammendment veiws are always my deciding factor when voting, it just so happens that both are usally supported by the same people

I know for a fact that the country is going down hill fast and both parties need some fixing and we do need change but not like the current admin. says we do.

He got elected by offering to pay your bills, and give you money. So hopefully when everyone that voted because of these false promises realized they where taken they dont vote or vote the other way in 12, I unfortinately know of many that voted for the first time because of these promises


----------



## oregonelkhunter

I'm still in disbelief that a person so unqualified could possibly be elected to the Presidency...
I don't like him, didn't vote for him and don't believe a word he says.
He is no different than most all politicians. Habitual liars with no interest at all in doing the right thing for the people of this country. The only thing they care about is personal gain.


----------



## Bakdahelup

I don't like the argument that 'he will ban hunting' or 'they will ban guns' because that is not the tactic the left wing
uses anymore. They learned back in 1993 that you can't make these grand changes all in one swipe, but you can change
tactics and take things a piece at a time.

The state of Illinois sure seems hell bent on banning guns...but they know they can't, so they consider things like requiring people
to have a million dollar insurance policy on a gun. New tactic, same result. 

This guy can't just ban the meat industry, but he does have the power to change regulations for them that would drastically
drive up the cost of meat or put them out of business. New tactic, same result.

These are the little things that get no attention, but are very powerful and seriously affect us.


----------



## RecordKeeper

Tfox1 said:


> Tell that to the insurance companies that PAY to fix cars from deer hit and emergency rooms that take care of people from the results of these accidents.
> 
> It DOES make economical sense.


Those same insurance companies are the ones who led the lobbyist groups that successfully sponsored legislation to legalize crossbows during bow season in Alabama and Tennessee (along with other states). And yet we as bowhunters ostracize those that hunt with the crossbow. 



Tfox1 said:


> Or to the farmer that loses bushels from cropdamage due to animal consumption.


 And I plant crops for the purpose of hunting those same animals. Quite a circle, ain't it?:wink:


----------



## ericjames

This is what its coming to believe it or not!

Revelation Ch 13

16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead. 17 So that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name


----------



## Tfox1

RecordKeeper said:


> Thanks for the education. I learned something today...Alabama and Illinois are tied!
> 
> 
> 
> I have little confidence myself. But I do believe that every legal citizen should have access to good health care. I don't have the answer, but I know the system is broken. I have clients who are cardiologists and make $100,000 per month. I don't begrudge them for one minute. Two of them are famous archers/hunters. If you are well versed in hunting celebrities, you'd recognize at least one of them if not both. I have seen both at multiple ATA shows.
> 
> *However, I don't discount my right and ability to be treated by them in favor of someone who cannot afford the same care. Somehow, to do so would just be wrong. As I said, I don't have the answer. But I do know that the system needs to be adjusted, if not totally revamped.*






HUGE MISCONCEPTION in this country about what our doctors do.They are constantly giving away their services for FREE.I know this for a fact.My wife works in surgery with them and it is not uncommon for her to be working on a bypass for someone that is overweight,smokes and can't pay for the care they are receiving and are taking advantage of the system the way it is now.They get free mediacl care and the doctors gets cussed for making too much money.After they have 250,000 in student loans to pay back and malpractice insurance to pay.


----------



## RecordKeeper

ericjames said:


> This is what its coming to believe it or not!
> 
> Revelation Ch 13
> 
> 16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead. 17 So that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name


This is the same fear tactic that was used regarding social security numbers back in the 1930's. I'm a Christian and a believer, but I don't understand where you are trying to lead me. I don't see the current administration insisting that we accept any tattoo on our right hand or forehead.


----------



## xswanted

jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


This is an interesting comment.

And IMO typical of a liberal point of view.

In one sentence you state that people have the right to express their opinions but in the next sentence you jump on someone who did just that. Kinda seems like you're ready to tell everyone hear your side of things but don't care to listen to anyone else. 

Sorry we can't all be as sophisticated and literate as you.


----------



## Deer3083

xswanted said:


> This is an interesting comment.
> 
> And IMO typical of a liberal point of view.
> 
> In one sentence you state that people have the right to express their opinions but in the next sentence you jump on someone who did just that. Kinda seems like you're ready to tell everyone hear your side of things but don't care to listen to anyone else.
> 
> Sorry we can't all be as sophisticated and literate as you.


Thank you for pointing that out. I was just going to leave it alone. I am a republican so i would have been told I dont know what im talking about.


----------



## Tfox1

RecordKeeper said:


> Those same insurance companies are the ones who led the lobbyist groups that successfully sponsored legislation to legalize crossbows during bow season in Alabama and Tennessee (along with other states). And yet *we as bowhunters ostracize those that hunt with the crossbow. *
> And I plant crops for the purpose of hunting those same animals. Quite a circle, ain't it?:wink:


NO,WE don't.


I don't plant anything for them to eat and the farmer I hunt on sure doesn't.He even resorted to planting COTTON in KY to help with the problem.They don't eat it but they sure do bed in it.


----------



## xswanted

jesseo said:


> I understood "a person by his side" to be Sunstein by Obama's side, especially since this thread is about him taking away hunting rights and all... I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but I'm still glad I posted his REAL views on hunting and the second amendment.


I'm sorry buy you don't know his real views.

Nobody does. 

You can research, find websites and listen to everything Obama has to say but in the end (as smart of a speaker as he is) he is going to tell you EXACTLY what you want to hear, even if he believes the exact opposite.

Germany wasn't going to invade Poland either. It was a "REAL view" at one point.


----------



## ericjames

RecordKeeper said:


> This is the same fear tactic that was used regarding social security numbers back in the 1930's. I'm a Christian and a believer, but I don't understand where you are trying to lead me. I don't see the current administration insisting that we accept any tattoo on our right hand or forehead.


I am not saying right now its just been in the works for years and years , or either everyone is reading the bible and trying to do everything that it fortells about. imo


----------



## jesseo

xswanted said:


> This is an interesting comment.
> 
> And IMO typical of a liberal point of view.
> 
> In one sentence you state that people have the right to express their opinions but in the next sentence you jump on someone who did just that. Kinda seems like you're ready to tell everyone hear your side of things but don't care to listen to anyone else.
> 
> Sorry we can't all be as sophisticated and literate as you.


I hope you read my other posts in the thread. They elaborate on this one and may clear up your misconception. I jumped on someone who called me a moron, not someone who expressed their opinion. There are ways of expressing one's opinion without name-calling, and they usually recieve a more open response. However, if they include name-calling, then that's fine too. It helps display the type of person they are. I could come back with how "typical conservative" it is to pull out the old "oh, sorry we can't talk all fancy like the sophisticated elitist liberal" argument, but that would be pigeonholing you as well, and I know as little about you as you truly know about me. I hope you think differently about me after reading the rest of the thread.

:darkbeer:


----------



## ericjames

And it is not a fear tactic for me i am ready .


----------



## Tfox1

RecordKeeper said:


> This is the same fear tactic that was used regarding social security numbers back in the 1930's. I'm a Christian and a believer, but I don't understand where you are trying to lead me. I don't see the current administration insisting that we accept any tattoo on our right hand or forehead.


I hope your not saying social security works or that it is a good thing.Social security has been robbed by politicians for years and we keep getting our benefits that are ours pushed back.

Let me have my own money to do with as "I" see fit.


----------



## RecordKeeper

RecordKeeper said:


> Those same insurance companies are the ones who led the lobbyist groups that successfully sponsored legislation to legalize crossbows during bow season in Alabama and Tennessee (along with other states). And yet we as bowhunters ostracize those that hunt with the crossbow.
> 
> And I plant crops for the purpose of hunting those same animals. Quite a circle, ain't it?:wink:





Tfox1 said:


> NO,WE don't.
> 
> 
> I don't plant anything for them to eat and the farmer I hunt on sure doesn't.He even resorted to planting COTTON in KY to help with the problem.They don't eat it but they sure do bed in it.


We do indeed. Read any crossbow thread on this site and you will find those who state they should not be allowed in bow season. It's just the way many bowhunters feel...nothing wrong with it.

I don't rely on any farmer. Instead, I am the farmer. I own the land, and trust me, I understand the crop damage argument. Deer consumption is a cost of this business. The deer were on my land for thousands of years before I ever owned it...


----------



## wicked1Joe

Tfox1 said:


> I hope your not saying social security works or that it is a good thing.Social security has been robbed by politicians for years and we keep getting our benefits that are ours pushed back.
> 
> Let me have my own money to do with as "I" see fit.



Lets name a few programs that have worked as PLANNED....by politicians

I'm thinking.......still thinking




still thinking....

My guess is I would be thinking a long time to evern come up with one.

:darkbeer:


----------



## jesseo

Deer3083 said:


> I am a republican so i would have been told I dont know what im talking about.


Why do you assume that? There are as many people from all walks of life that do/do not know what they are talking about. Republican does not = "wrong" or "does not know what he's talking about." Kiethe Olbermann is as useless to me as Glen Beck. I dislike Rush Limbaugh just as much as Micheal Moore. I know some people refuse to think outside political or ideological stereotypes, but I'm not one of them.


----------



## Deer3083

RecordKeeper said:


> We do indeed. Read any crossbow thread on this site and you will find those who state they should not be allowed in bow season. It's just the way many bowhunters feel...nothing wrong with it.
> 
> I don't rely on any farmer. Instead, I am the farmer. I own the land, and trust me, I understand the crop damage argument. Deer consumption is a cost of this business. The deer were on my land for thousands of years before I ever owned it...


I went away for a few and am totally lost. How did we get on this subject? How is it relative except for if hunting was banned farmers would lose a crap ton of money due to crop damage? Answered my own question :darkbeer:


----------



## Mrohr1

kenmack said:


> An IQ of 147 and he voted for Obama? Something's not right there. At least we have a good spell checker now.


Remember, most college Professors are liberals.......Which leads to the point:

You can be taught everything the world has to offer, but you can never be taught COMMON SENSE.


----------



## Deer3083

jesseo said:


> Why do you assume that? There are as many people from all walks of life that do/do not know what they are talking about. Republican does not = "wrong" or "does not know what he's talking about." Kiethe Olbermann is as useless to me as Glen Beck. I dislike Rush Limbaugh just as much as Micheal Moore. I know some people refuse to think outside political or ideological stereotypes, but I'm not one of them.


Well with all due respect you did kinda come across as totally left wing and I think your trying to insinuate our concerns are not just.


----------



## RecordKeeper

Tfox1 said:


> I hope your not saying social security works or that it is a good thing.Social security has been robbed by politicians for years and we keep getting our benefits that are ours pushed back.
> 
> Let me have my own money to do with as "I" see fit.


Foxy, I couldn't agree more. If I could recover the $150k that I have paid into the system myself (let alone my employer matching) and opt out, I would do so today.

However...my parents also paid into that system. And they do receive benefits that they rely upon. They need those payments to survive.

Will I ever receive the benefits that I have paid for? Maybe, and maybe not. But to tell you the truth...so long as my parents receive what they need and deserve, I'm satisfied. I can make do on my own. But my parents can't...


----------



## xswanted

jesseo said:


> I hope you read my other posts in the thread. They elaborate on this one and may clear up your misconception. I jumped on someone who called me a moron, not someone who expressed their opinion. There are ways of expressing one's opinion without name-calling, and they usually recieve a more open response. However, if they include name-calling, then that's fine too. It helps display the type of person they are. I could come back with how "typical conservative" it is to pull out the old "oh, sorry we can't talk all fancy like the sophisticated elitist liberal" argument, but that would be pigeonholing you as well, and I know as little about you as you truly know about me. I hope you think differently about me after reading the rest of the thread.
> 
> :darkbeer:



Regardless of why you jumped on the guy....it was still his opinion.

Name calling or not....You sound like a little kid on a playground.

So someone called you a name...get over it.

And....I have no opinion of you....Don't know a thing about you other than the double standards you have.


----------



## Tfox1

909bowsniper said:


> Lets name a few programs that have worked as PLANNED....by politicians
> 
> I'm thinking.......still thinking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still thinking....
> 
> My guess is I would be thinking a long time to evern come up with one.
> 
> :darkbeer:


Good luck with that one.



> We do indeed. Read any crossbow thread on this site and you will find those who state they should not be allowed in bow season. It's just the way many bowhunters feel...nothing wrong with it.



I was referring to ME,when referencing WE.

I complained about Ky when they labeled a crossbow a bow and wanted it in bow season but in no way did I think it shouldn't be allowed to be used in a season and even went so far as to tell the DNR such.They made a compromise and allowed them to come in a few weeks after bow season started.I actually think they need to let traditional have a few weeks to themselves before compounds are allowed.:embara:


----------



## RecordKeeper

Deer3083 said:


> I went away for a few and am totally lost. How did we get on this subject? How is it relative except for if hunting was banned farmers would lose a crap ton of money due to crop damage? Answered my own question :darkbeer:


This thread is pretty complicated, and I'm lost too. I was making reference to some comments by Foxy with that particular reply.


----------



## Kss_Waylander

The day I found out that Obama won the election was a sad day indeed. We truly are a nation of once limitless freedoms. Change is coming and believe me, not for the better.


----------



## Deer3083

RecordKeeper said:


> This thread is pretty complicated, and I'm lost too. I was making reference to some comments by Foxy with that particular reply.


Yeah it has a bunch of twist in it lol. Who cant love this site :darkbeer:


----------



## Tfox1

RecordKeeper said:


> Foxy, I couldn't agree more. If I could recover the $150k that I have paid into the system myself (let alone my employer matching) and opt out, I would do so today.
> 
> *However...my parents also paid into that system. And they do receive benefits that they rely upon. They need those payments to survive.*Will I ever receive the benefits that I have paid for? Maybe, and maybe not. But to tell you the truth...so long as my parents receive what they need and deserve, I'm satisfied. I can make do on my own. But my parents can't...


Could they have not done their own savings and be better off if the government didn't have their hands in it since the 30's?


I don't believe in socialism or communism which this administration is showing that they do.

Of couse,I am recieving socialist benefits right now because I am a layed off tool maker.I feel it has alot to do with the political views of the democratic party that has put several Americans in the same boat as I.


----------



## RecordKeeper

Deer3083 said:


> Yeah it has a bunch of twist in it lol. Who cant love this site :darkbeer:


Deer...If you ever make it down to Alabama, I hope you'll look me up. I'll treat you to some fun and good times at my archery shop.

Do you hunt sheep in Colorado? I have a good friend who is a guide in Colorado Springs. Seems like a load of fun, but I have never tried it.


----------



## Tfox1

RecordKeeper said:


> This thread is pretty complicated, and I'm lost too. I was making reference to some comments by Foxy with that particular reply.


And I was responding to you about finding a new argument for hunting other than economic reasons.


----------



## Deer3083

RecordKeeper said:


> Deer...If you ever make it down to Alabama, I hope you'll look me up. I'll treat you to some fun and good times at my archery shop.
> 
> Do you hunt sheep in Colorado? I have a good friend who is a guide in Colorado Springs. Seems like a load of fun, but I have never tried it.


Have only lived here for about 2 years so I dont have enough points to even draw a tag for em :sad:. If I ever do make it to Alabama I will most certainly stop by your shop. Maybe I can treat ya to a :darkbeer:.


----------



## jesseo

Deer3083 said:


> Well with all due respect you did kinda come across as totally left wing and I think your trying to insinuate our concerns are not just.


I'll be clear: your concerns are not unjust. I may disagree that you are concentrating your efforts on the right person to be concerned with, but in the end, I want the same things you do: to hunt, have the right to bear arms, and to feel safe. If the time ever comes that we need to stand together as citizens to protect our Constitutional rights and freedoms with force, I will be right there next to all of you... but I might ask to borrow a gun or two, since stockpiling weapons isn't really my thing, and I would likely want something with a bit more oomph than a small caliber rifle. :wink:

I have been fairly "left-wing" pretty much all of my life, and I come from a middle-class liberal background, in a family of educators. However, I am not "left-wing" on all issues. I have voted for people from both major parties, and independents as well; whoever I thought was the best person for the particular job at the particular time. 

If you want to consider me political opposition, that's completely up to you, but I would like you to know that I consider myself open-minded and far from "typical" anything.


----------



## RecordKeeper

Tfox1 said:


> Could they have not done their own savings and be better off if the government didn't have their hands in it since the 30's?
> 
> 
> I don't believe in socialism or communism which this administration is showing that they do.
> 
> Of couse,I am recieving socialist benefits right now because I am a layed off tool maker.I feel it has alot to do with the political views of the democratic party that has put several Americans in the same boat as I.


I'm not sure any party is really to blame. You have to remember that the economy is cyclical... I feel badly for those who are out of work. I live in an area that was considered recession proof...high tech oriented and lots of government contract work...not to mention a high profile military base (no Army helicopter or missile flies that is not coordinated out of Redstone Arsenal) and key NASA facility. Nonetheless, unemployment in my state is at 10.7%, well above the national average of 9.4%, and unemployment in my county is at an all time historical high of 7.8%...twice what it was just 18 months ago. These are scary economical times!

I'm glad that you are at least receiving benefits, and hope that my contributions somehow helped you and others in the same boat. Some government safeguards really do work!


----------



## Deer3083

RecordKeeper said:


> I'm not sure any party is really to blame. You have to remember that the economy is cyclical... I feel badly for those who are out of work. I live in an area that was considered recession proof...high tech oriented and lots of government contract work...not to mention a high profile military base (no Army helicopter or missile flies that is not coordinated out of Redstone Arsenal) and key NASA facility. Nonetheless, unemployment in my state is at 10.7%, well above the national average of 9.4%, and unemployment in my county is at an all time historical high of 7.8%...twice what it was just 18 months ago. These are scary economical times!
> 
> I'm glad that you are at least receiving benefits, and hope that my contributions somehow helped you and others in the same boat. Some government safeguards really do work!


I was laid off a year after moving here and still havent found work. If not for my ability to save money the way I do I would really be in a dire situation. I have not yet had to go to unemployment and hope I never have to as families with multiple children and both parents unemployed need it far more than I


----------



## RecordKeeper

Deer3083 said:


> I was laid off a year after moving here and still havent found work. If not for my ability to save money the way I do I would really be in a dire situation. I have not yet had to go to unemployment and hope I never have to as families with multiple children and both parents unemployed need it far more than I


An honorable position and attitude for sure. I hope you find work soon. God bless!


----------



## jesseo

xswanted said:


> Regardless of why you jumped on the guy....it was still his opinion.
> 
> Name calling or not....You sound like a little kid on a playground.
> 
> So someone called you a name...get over it.
> 
> And....I have no opinion of you....Don't know a thing about you other than the double standards you have.


You see what you want to see, I suppose. I don't really understand how you think I need to "get over it." People usually take offense to name calling. I doesn't mean his opinion is wrong. In his mind, I am a moron. He made that crystal clear. Fine. I responded, and we came to an "agree to disagree" moment. Like 3 pages ago. I've been "over it" for quite a while until it was brought back up. I really liked the direction the discussion on this thread was taking, until recently.


----------



## Tfox1

RecordKeeper said:


> I'm not sure any party is really to blame. You have to remember that the economy is cyclical... I feel badly for those who are out of work. I live in an area that was considered recession proof...high tech oriented and lots of government contract work...not to mention a high profile military base (no Army helicopter or missile flies that is not coordinated out of Redstone Arsenal) and key NASA facility. Nonetheless, unemployment in my state is at 10.7%, well above the national average of 9.4%, and unemployment in my county is at an all time historical high of 7.8%...twice what it was just 18 months ago. These are scary economical times!
> 
> I'm glad that you are at least receiving benefits, and hope that my contributions somehow helped you and others in the same boat. Some government safeguards really do work!


 Actually,these safeguards are an insurance benefit that "I" payed for while I was working.

AND Bill Clinton selling us out to the Chinese has ALOT to do with what is happening to my trade along with many others today.When we complained about it then we were crazy,now that it has come full circle,we are still crazy.


Have fun supporting your socialist leader,I for one will not.Later,I am out of this one.

A last thought before I gbama said for us to judge him by the people he surrounds himself with.A self proclaimed communist and someone that wants to give animals rights to sue humans,among other "czars" he has appointed.

Have fun defending that.


----------



## jesseo

RecordKeeper said:


> An honorable position and attitude for sure. I hope you find work soon. God bless!


Ditto, same from me. I have many friends who are in the same boat... and some that do have large families to take care of. I wish you the best, and hope you're back to work very soon.


----------



## RecordKeeper

Tfox1 said:


> Actually,these safeguards are an insurance benefit that "I" payed for while I was working.
> 
> AND Bill Clinton selling us out to the Chinese has ALOT to do with what is happening to my trade along with many others today.When we complained about it then we were crazy,now that it has come full circle,we are still crazy.
> 
> 
> Have fun supporting your socialist leader,I for one will not.Later,I am out of this one.
> 
> A last thought before I gbama said for us to judge him by the people he surrounds himself with.A self proclaimed communist and someone that wants to give animals rights to sue humans,among other "czars" he has appointed.
> 
> Have fun defending that.


The very same person has defended our second amendment right to bear arms and to possess arms for hunting purposes. I'm not for one second defending the man...just pointing out the conflicts. If I had my way, he would not be a part of the current administration.


----------



## RAYHUNTS

How about the two terrorists he was aquainted with. The names are escaping me though. How is that for people that have surrounded him. Anyway, the Social Security thing really gets my azz. I am a police officer and the people I deal with are not the nicest. But it truly amazes me the peole that collect SSI. They have never worked a day in their life and they are collecting it. From substance abuse(a sickness) to illiteracy(sp?). They collect it because of those problems. Get them off the crap their on and teach them to read. Most of them are in better health than me and get a free ride. Then RK and everyone else's parents that rely on SS will have the money they deserve. If those people I mentioned above collecting SSI really need it fine. It shoud be temporary, not a life long free paycheck. About the hunting ban, should it ever get close to fruition, I would say a million hunter march on Washington should be in order, roadtrip anyone? These are my views on a couple of topics mentioned. My views come from what I have heard, seen, and read. Politics are not my thing by any stretch of the imagination. I am kind of naive when it comes to them, but with the things that are going on we all have to get involved. In years past what politicians voted on and passed never really involved our rights and freedoms. It sure involves them now. A long rant. By the way I didn't vote for Obama, but I pray he does this wonderful country right.


----------



## bownarra

MTNHunt said:


> Your are a Moron, and I could care less how to spell it. At 5'11" and 275 I would tell you in person if I could.


Classy! American troops are sacrificing their lives to bring democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan while you're at home threatening to beat someone up because you don't like the way he voted. Even if you knew what irony was it would be lost on you.


----------



## Deer3083

jesseo said:


> I'll be clear: your concerns are not unjust. I may disagree that you are concentrating your efforts on the right person to be concerned with, but in the end, I want the same things you do: to hunt, have the right to bear arms, and to feel safe. If the time ever comes that we need to stand together as citizens to protect our Constitutional rights and freedoms with force, I will be right there next to all of you... but I might ask to borrow a gun or two, since stockpiling weapons isn't really my thing, and I would likely want something with a bit more oomph than a small caliber rifle. :wink:
> 
> I have been fairly "left-wing" pretty much all of my life, and I come from a middle-class liberal background, in a family of educators. However, I am not "left-wing" on all issues. I have voted for people from both major parties, and independents as well; whoever I thought was the best person for the particular job at the particular time.
> 
> If you want to consider me political opposition, that's completely up to you, but I would like you to know that I consider myself open-minded and far from "typical" anything.


Fair enough


----------



## RonnieB54

I never voted for Obama and never would his name is not American. Then the idiots that are behind him in government are no better. We have people at work that worship this guy and anyone that talks about him they go to the main office and ***** about it. This guy Patterson our Governor in NY did one thing pass 14 year olds can hunt big game but after that he has raised prices on licenses and really doesn't know much about hunting and wildlife. He also wants to raise snowmobile ,automobile, boat and camper registractions which he already did. Since this new government got into office everything has been going up not down. Unemployment has been going up also. Not just in NY but all the states. So where has Obama did any better then Bush? To me I think we are in deep crap with this guy in office. Maybe I will be wrong but I dought it. Sooner or latter us working people will be working for nothing. I make over $1500 a week gross and bring home is half of that most of it goes to state and federal taxes which makes me sick. Now days if you and your wife don't work you can't make the bills this is sad if you know what I mean. Sorry about this long thread but this just pisses me off.


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## Hoyt Alpha32

Anyone who loves the outdoors, and enjoys hunting, fishing, or any of the shooting sports that voted for this administration should hang up their gear! If you did any research at all about Obama, you would have found out very quickly that he is no friend of the outdoorsman. If he could get his way, he would strip all of us of our right to own firearms, and as a result eliminate hunting almost entirely. And to believe that it is OK to elect someone like this because his beliefs will never come true because of the NRA, and hunters nationwide is an insane way to think. We as outdoorsman must unite as one and stick together. To think that our beliefs and rights will be protected by someone else when we are not willing to stand up for them individually is the wrong mindset. WAKE UP!!!!


----------



## bownarra

RonnieB54 said:


> I never voted for Obama and never would his name is not American.


So what's an 'American' name? America is populated largely by immigrants, everyone's name comes from somewhere else. 



RonnieB54 said:


> Since this new government got into office everything has been going up not down. Unemployment has been going up also. Not just in NY but all the states. So where has Obama did any better then Bush? To me I think we are in deep crap with this guy in office.


You do know there's a global recession on the go, right? Obama didn't cause it, and there wasn't much he could have done to avoid it. I think you'd be in deeper crap if Bush was still in office, he'd probably have invaded Iran and North Korea too by now.

Here's an analogy for ya:
Bush is the captain of the Titanic. The lookout yells "ICEBERG DEAD AHEAD!!!" and Bush gives the wheel to Obama.


----------



## Leon Garfield

*Republicans*

It is the same old thing that has lead this country to the unemployment country of the world. We followed Bush as he gave all the breaks to his rich friends and did business with the same people that attacked this country on 911 and now we turn and blame it on the president we have now. I would expect nothing less from a party as we saw on national television the other night that will just scream out at the president of the united states on national television and in the end be the one that is in total shame for it. That is what your wonderful president Bush brought into this country and as I can see some of you are still trying to breed it. I for one have seen way to many friends loose the bows and guns and in the end there RIGHT to hunt because of what Bush done. They have lost everything they had for without a JOB it is hard to worry about the other stuff. I to voted for Obama because I am sick of this country going to the rich that is the change I am looking for. Without income none of the rest will really matter..........................................


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## proXarchery

any one who voted for and still today agrees with what is going on in this country. I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOUR OPIONION. .GOOD AND GREAT PEOPLE DIED FOR YOU AND THIS COUNTRY TO STAY AS GREAT AS IT IS . THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE MORE HARM ACROSS THE BOARD IN 8 MONTHS THAN EVER COULD BE IMAGINED . WAKE UP PEOPLE


----------



## Q2DEATH

Tfox1 said:


> IMO,this is what we have going on today with this administartion and the democratic party in general.
> 
> http://www.squidoo.com/howtocatchapig


So, why was the bullet in the back even mentioned? Had nothing to do with the story.


----------



## ArrowDucker

Typical Liberal reply.

Blame the past president for his own presidents shortcomings. The same liberals blame the owners of the place they work for their lack of pay. All because the owners live in a $500,000.00 house. Get out there and do it for yourself and quit depending on the government to do it for you.

Liberals make me ukey:


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## RecordKeeper

proXarchery said:


> any one who voted for and still today agrees with what is going on in this country. I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOUR OPIONION. .GOOD AND GREAT PEOPLE DIED FOR YOU AND THIS COUNTRY TO STAY AS GREAT AS IT IS . THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE MORE HARM ACROSS THE BOARD IN 8 MONTHS THAN EVER COULD BE IMAGINED . WAKE UP PEOPLE


:noidea: Those great people fought and died so that you and I would have the right to express our opinions....but you refuse to respect mine? Why? Because it is not the same as yours? I respect your right to your opinion. In fact, I respect anyone's opinion so long as they meet three conditions: 1) It is truly their own well thought out opinion...not just some they heard Rush say that afternoon or their minister say on Sunday morning, 2) They are able to articulate their opinion in a civil manner, and 3) They are not closed minded.

Here is something to remember about opinions. Opinions are the verbal or written expression of a deeply held belief. Thus, by definition, it is not possible for an opinion to be wrong.


----------



## DWGray

Hopefully this new Czar is hiding something like some of Obama's other cronies and will go away once the truth is revealed.


----------



## Hasbro

Leon Garfield said:


> It is the same old thing that has lead this country to the unemployment country of the world. We followed Bush as he gave all the breaks to his rich friends and did business with the same people that attacked this country on 911 and now we turn and blame it on the president we have now. I would expect nothing less from a party as we saw on national television the other night that will just scream out at the president of the united states on national television and in the end be the one that is in total shame for it. That is what your wonderful president Bush brought into this country and as I can see some of you are still trying to breed it. I for one have seen way to many friends loose the bows and guns and in the end there RIGHT to hunt because of what Bush done. They have lost everything they had for without a JOB it is hard to worry about the other stuff. I to voted for Obama because I am sick of this country going to the rich that is the change I am looking for. Without income none of the rest will really matter..........................................


Well... for one thing President Bush would have said that the citizens that were protesting his policies had the "Constitutional right to protest". Not that that they were undermining the country.

If President Bush is/was the cause of the ills of this country when he was in office.... Then President Obama should man up & accept his resposibility now. Not cont to blame Pres. Bush.

As for Pres. Obama getting called a "liar" on national television.... Well I guess he shouldn't have "call the dissenters out". Not much different than the unison BOOO's coming from the left side of the isle during Pres. Bush's Speeches.


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## thwack12pt

i am sick of hearing about all these closed minded political idiots that try to take things away(such as hunting) just because they dont agree with it:angry7:.......anyone that puts someone in that thinks animals can stand trial should be striped of their office as well:moon:..........i'm voting for uncle Ted next go around!:darkbeer:"freedom of choice is made for you my friend,freedom of speech is words that they will bend,freedom with their exception"-james hetfield:RockOn:


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## Anynamewilldo

jesseo said:


> I voted for him, and I'm not afraid to say it. Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I agree with the skewed perspective Sunstein has on hunting? Absolutely not. Do I vote based _solely_ on the issue of hunting? Absolutely not. I have many reasons I made the choice I made when I cast my ballot.
> 
> Do I think hunters are a strong enough force to prevent ridiculous things like "banning hunting" and "animal lawsuits" from happening? 100% yes. The NRA and other organizations, as well as the hunting industry, will have a large voice in seeing that nothing like that comes to pass, despite how ludicrous and unlikely it is to begin with. No spin needed- hunting has a large voice and will be heard on this issue. If hunting is not around in 2012, you can blame me if you want. I don't see that happening in 2012, 2016, 2112, or ever... unless we hunt populations to extinction... which we would never do.
> 
> As far as some of the responses on this thread... REGARDLESS of _who_ someone votes for, they still have a voice, an ability to organize, and a right to express their opinion. Calling someone a "moron" for having an opinion and exercising their right to vote *(MTNHunt)* is counterproductive... especially when you mis-punctuate "morons." It's your opinion to have, but it's appalling how few people in this country have _any tact or manners whatsoever_... from AT, to "Town Hall" meetings, and more recently, even down to elected officials.
> 
> Hate on me all you want, but the bottom line is that it's the internet, and everyone seems to grow an extra large pair when they are sitting at a keyboard. I can accept that. I hunt, I voted for Obama, and I would do it again. Are you man enough to accept that I have as much of a say in things as you do, and treat me as a human should treat another human? As a hunter should treat another hunter?
> 
> Happy hunting to you all, regardless of what you think of me.
> 
> :darkbeer:


I had an uncle with a genius IQ. He killed a undercover cop over drugs. IQ dont mean squat to me. I wouldnt hit you if we met Id just ask what thing Obama supports you agree with cause there isnt anything I know of I agree with him. I kind of understand voting for him the first time if you were misinformed but now I figure someone is just being stubborn. Hoped I didnt mispell something. BTW I have had lots of good talks with people I dont agree with on political matters and none have even come to raising our voices. Not all of us right wingers are violent:wink:


----------



## edthearcher

*animal rights*

I might rile some feathers, but I will say this, all you people who go to the poles and vote. and you vote for a DEMOCRATE 95% of them want your guns, bows and fishing poles, plus why keep public land when they could sell it off for money. so if you voted for your democtate congress person, your democrate senator, or your democrate presideent. you have no right to complain as far as Iam concerened, when they take away your rights, and tax the s--- out of you:sad:


----------



## MTNHunt

bownarra said:


> Classy! American troops are sacrificing their lives to bring democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan while you're at home threatening to beat someone up because you don't like the way he voted. Even if you knew what irony was it would be lost on you.


Refer to post #152, that is how I feel. Like it or not, so what. 

I voted (my party didn't win the election) and voiced my opinion, then and now, and will continue. Nice spin on the irony, everyone should have a right to voice or vote in a Democratic nation. I have voted since I was 18. 

The irony that I see is a whole lot of people got sold on false promises, smoke and mirrors and are backtracking as fast as this adminstration is failing.


----------



## MTNHunt

proXarchery said:


> any one who voted for and still today agrees with what is going on in this country. I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOUR OPIONION. .GOOD AND GREAT PEOPLE DIED FOR YOU AND THIS COUNTRY TO STAY AS GREAT AS IT IS . THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE MORE HARM ACROSS THE BOARD IN 8 MONTHS THAN EVER COULD BE IMAGINED . WAKE UP PEOPLE


Post 152.


----------



## xswanted

jesseo said:


> You see what you want to see, I suppose. I don't really understand how you think I need to "get over it." People usually take offense to name calling. I doesn't mean his opinion is wrong. In his mind, I am a moron. He made that crystal clear. Fine. I responded, and we came to an "agree to disagree" moment. Like 3 pages ago. I've been "over it" for quite a while until it was brought back up. I really liked the direction the discussion on this thread was taking, until recently.



This is the part you need to learn to not let bother you.

I take no offense to name calling, couldn't care less what someone else thinks of me.

If you don't like the discussion anymore then quit posting. Wouldn't want you to be offended again.

Another funny thing is, is that you said "hate on me all you want" in your first post....then when someone does, you can't handle it.

Funny. I like it.

This administration will tell you anything you want to hear. They will try to take away rights to own guns, and my guess it they will make an attempt at taking away hunting. You or me or nobody else in this country knows Obama's "true" feelings on guns and hunting. 

If you want to vote for the guy, go ahead. But don't come on a forum and say you voted for him, argue his point of views and then tell others try to belittle others that expressed their opinions on the opposite side of the story....no matter how they did it.

And since this is your first year hunting, how do we know you are truly dedicated to the sport?


----------



## RecordKeeper

xswanted said:


> And since this is your first year hunting, how do we know you are truly dedicated to the sport?


Aw, c'mon now...that last part is just a bit over the top...:wink:


----------



## xswanted

RecordKeeper said:


> Aw, c'mon now...that last part is just a bit over the top...:wink:


Thats just my opinion in the form of a simple question.


----------



## jesseo

RecordKeeper said:


> Aw, c'mon now...that last part is just a bit over the top...:wink:


Some people trust first, some people doubt first. Again, not really sure how I'm "not handling it." :dontknow:


----------



## RecordKeeper

xswanted said:


> Thats my opinion though.


I gotta respect the opinion of a Dakota brother! But really, we should encourage fellow hunters even if we disagree with their politics...

He's also a teacher...like you and I are.


----------



## Tfox1

Q2DEATH said:


> So, why was the bullet in the back even mentioned? Had nothing to do with the story.


He got the bullet in the back fighting communism

It was what sparked the proffessor to ask him what was wrong and then the student proceeded to tell him.Then the student went on to explain what he sees happening right here in this country.

IT HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE STORY.


----------



## xswanted

RecordKeeper said:


> I gotta respect the opinion of a Dakota brother! But really, we should encourage fellow hunters even if we disagree with their politics...
> 
> He's also a teacher...like you and I are.


True. True.


----------



## jjcard41

And people get paid to think and write of these moronic ideas. I just can't believe it: animals have rights and have social needs?? WOW!!

As for all on here; I wouldn't be worried about this ever happening. Too many people in this country hunt and for many families, it's their main source to provide food. I know several families that hunt all they can and store the food. Can you say "revolt"??


----------



## Tfox1

xswanted said:


> This is the part you need to learn to not let bother you.
> 
> I take no offense to name calling, couldn't care less what someone else thinks of me.
> 
> If you don't like the discussion anymore then quit posting. Wouldn't want you to be offended again.
> 
> Another funny thing is, is that you said "hate on me all you want" in your first post....then when someone does, you can't handle it.
> 
> Funny. I like it.
> 
> This administration will tell you anything you want to hear. They will try to take away rights to own guns, and my guess it they will make an attempt at taking away hunting. *You or me or nobody else in this country knows Obama's "true" feelings on guns and hunting. *
> If you want to vote for the guy, go ahead. But don't come on a forum and say you voted for him, argue his point of views and then tell others try to belittle others that expressed their opinions on the opposite side of the story....no matter how they did it.
> 
> And since this is your first year hunting, how do we know you are truly dedicated to the sport?




I can't believe I am getting back into this.

Sure we do,just look at his voting record in Chicago.He voted against legal gun ownership every chance he had.


----------



## Buksknr53

I watched an interview last nigh with Jack Hanna. He admitted that he was against hunting but saw it as the only way to control animal populations. He talked about the high number of animal/people encounters that result in death injury and property damage. He pointed out that as man continues to encroach on animal habitat, the problem will get worse, not just in the U.S. but all over the world. Hanna pointed out that in states that prohibit the hunting of species like bear and mt. lions, the number of animal attacks or encounters were on the rise because the animals had lost their fear of man. He said that only hunting would reverse the trend of animals associating humans with food or in some cases, as food. 
Jack Hanna's interview was right on the money. I was surprised to hear him support hunting as he did after admitting that he was against it. He saw hunting as a must have tool to control animal populations. I think that the majority of our elected officials feel the same way or at least I sure hope so.


----------



## Hayes0713

What do they expect to happen when and if they get this thing to pass through? Do they think that all the deer and other animals will just run around freely and be happy? Whats going to happen when the food runs out and the animals start dieing very slowly and painfully from starvation, or the animals start coming into town and cities to find food because their numbers are so great that they have eaten themselves out of house and home? Whats going to happen when a bear comes into town and kills one of the animal rights activists kids because it cant find anything else to eat? What is going to happen then? These people think that they are doing the wildlife a favor but really all they are doing is slowing down and making the death of the wildlife more miserable and painful. We participate in animal conservation for a reason. I don't see why all the treehuggers in the world aren't acting out against this, because in the long run the animals will destroy the environment from sheer over population. What is happening to this country what happened to the vision that the founding fathers had. Think about what would happen if someone would have approached the founding fathers with anti-hunting ideas. They would get laughed out of this country and that is a FACT! I am proud to be an American but completely embarrassed to be under the administration that we have to day!


----------



## Guest

All anyone has to do is look at Obamas voting record.He is anti capitolist,Anti second amendmant,anti hunting.
He is pro big gov.,pro controling everything we do.He is a SOCIALIST!!!!!!!Plain and simple.
I have respect for the office,ZERO respect for him.I'd rather hear my dog pass gas than Obama speak.


----------



## RecordKeeper

Just what is a "Regulatory Czar" anyway?

Actually, Cass Sunstein has been appointed to the position of Director of the Office of Management and Budget...the agency that is responsible for oversight of government budget development and administration. Following is the mission statement of the OMB:

"OMB's predominant mission is to assist the President in overseeing the preparation of the federal budget and to supervise its administration in Executive Branch agencies. In helping to formulate the President's spending plans, OMB evaluates the effectiveness of agency programs, policies, and procedures, assesses competing funding demands among agencies, and sets funding priorities. OMB ensures that agency reports, rules, testimony, and proposed legislation are consistent with the President's Budget and with Administration policies.

In addition, OMB oversees and coordinates the Administration's procurement, financial management, information, and regulatory policies. In each of these areas, OMB's role is to help improve administrative management, to develop better performance measures and coordinating mechanisms, and to reduce any unnecessary burdens on the public."

So apparently it isn't the man's job to draft legislation prohibiting hunting or providing legal assistance to animals.:tongue:

Thinking back over the years, I can recall the name of only one person who has held the Regulatory Czar title in the past - George Stephanopoulos.


----------



## XForce Girl

*no*



RecordKeeper said:


> Just what is a "Regulatory Czar" anyway?
> 
> Actually, Cass Sunstein has been appointed to the position of Director of the Office of Management and Budget...the agency that is responsible for oversight of government budget development and administration. Following is the mission statement of the OMB:
> 
> "OMB's predominant mission is to assist the President in overseeing the preparation of the federal budget and to supervise its administration in Executive Branch agencies. In helping to formulate the President's spending plans, OMB evaluates the effectiveness of agency programs, policies, and procedures, assesses competing funding demands among agencies, and sets funding priorities. OMB ensures that agency reports, rules, testimony, and proposed legislation are consistent with the President's Budget and with Administration policies.
> 
> In addition, OMB oversees and coordinates the Administration's procurement, financial management, information, and regulatory policies. In each of these areas, OMB's role is to help improve administrative management, to develop better performance measures and coordinating mechanisms, and to reduce any unnecessary burdens on the public."
> 
> So apparently it isn't the man's job to draft legislation prohibiting hunting or providing legal assistance to animals.:tongue:
> 
> Thinking back over the years, I can recall the name of only one person who has held the Regulatory Czar title in the past - George Stephanopoulos.


But he can say where the money is spent and set the policies such as "no hunting on federal Forests" and things such as that. He can cut funds for conservation.


----------



## RecordKeeper

A related thread:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1013806

 

:chortle: :chortle: :chortle:


----------



## M-Tecs

RecordKeeper said:


> Just what is a "Regulatory Czar" anyway?
> 
> Actually, Cass Sunstein has been appointed to the position of Director of the Office of Management and Budget...the agency that is responsible for oversight of government budget development and administration. Following is the mission statement of the OMB:
> 
> "OMB's predominant mission is to assist the President in overseeing the preparation of the federal budget and to supervise its administration in Executive Branch agencies. In helping to formulate the President's spending plans, OMB evaluates the effectiveness of agency programs, policies, and procedures, assesses competing funding demands among agencies, and sets funding priorities. OMB ensures that agency reports, rules, testimony, and proposed legislation are consistent with the President's Budget and with Administration policies.
> 
> In addition, OMB oversees and coordinates the Administration's procurement, financial management, information, and regulatory policies. In each of these areas, OMB's role is to help improve administrative management, to develop better performance measures and coordinating mechanisms, and to reduce any unnecessary burdens on the public."
> 
> So apparently it isn't the man's job to draft legislation prohibiting hunting or providing legal assistance to animals.:tongue:
> 
> Thinking back over the years, I can recall the name of only one person who has held the Regulatory Czar title in the past - George Stephanopoulos.


Sunstein views on the Second Amendment right to bear arms: "My coming view is that the individual right to bear arms reflects the success of an extremely aggressive and resourceful social movement and has much less to do with good standard legal arguments than [it] appears." 

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109594


----------



## RecordKeeper

XForce Girl said:


> But he can say where the money is spent and set the policies such as "no hunting on federal Forests" and things such as that. He can cut funds for conservation.


Now why would you want to post in this thread using common sense and without making any emotion based personal attacks?:tongue:

Good points, and good post!

RK


----------



## marku

> It is the same old thing that has lead this country to the unemployment country of the world. We followed Bush as he gave all the breaks to his rich friends and did business with the same people that attacked this country on 911 and now we turn and blame it on the president we have now.





People take advantage of what our country offers. Instead of finding a job they can make more money sitting at home raking money off tax payers. Ive yet to see a 600.00 check in my name from Obama's office.


----------



## bobclem

RecordKeeper said:


> You are right in so many ways. The original point of this thread was the past statements made by the "Regulatory Czar," with which of course I vehemently disagree. However, I couldn't help but to project humorous scenarios in my mind. Example, an animal suing a person...with human representation. Everyone in this country has the right to face their accuser in court. Somehow I can't get rid of the hilarious mental picture of a deer in the witness stand testifying about how my rage broadhead was too devistating to his poor body as it flew at 253 fps out of my 54 pound Martin MOAB!
> 
> I'm sorry, but it is just too ridiculous to even be taken seriously.



This is too funny. I was picturing myself on the witness stand being questioned about killing the deer and in a Hannibal Lecter-ish kind of way responding with something like "I cooked his liver with some fava beans and served it with a fine Chianti." Almost too ridiculous to believe!! 

On the original topic of this clown being confirmed, time will tell. I think that assuming that he will ban hunting is way out there. As someone else said, HSUS and PETA are the bigger problem and the best way to counter them is to belong to organizations like the NRA that works to promote hunting and gun rights, and to do some research on candidates before electing them to office. I did not vote for Obama, I voted for the other guy(and girl) so in my opinion that gives me the right to say "I told you so!!" But, if the "change" that comes ends up working out for the better I will gladly eat crow and say I was wrong. My gut instinct tells me that we should all bend over cause change is a comin'.


----------



## Twitch

The sad thing is there are a bunch of hunters out there that don't see anything wrong with the way things are going. I really don't want to be able to say "I told ya so" because by then it will be to late to do much about it. Nothing like waking up sticky, broke, and confused... from Liberal koolaid.







bobclem said:


> This is too funny. I was picturing myself on the witness stand being questioned about killing the deer and in a Hannibal Lecter-ish kind of way responding with something like "I cooked his liver with some fava beans and served it with a fine Chianti." Almost too ridiculous to believe!!
> 
> On the original topic of this clown being confirmed, time will tell. I think that assuming that he will ban hunting is way out there. As someone else said, HSUS and PETA are the bigger problem and the best way to counter them is to belong to organizations like the NRA that works to promote hunting and gun rights, and to do some research on candidates before electing them to office. I did not vote for Obama, I voted for the other guy(and girl) so in my opinion that gives me the right to say "I told you so!!" But, if the "change" that comes ends up working out for the better I will gladly eat crow and say I was wrong. My gut instinct tells me that we should all bend over cause change is a comin'.


----------



## Midwest Dude

31 years old and just getting a BA in Elementary ed at the age of 31? My certified IQ of 140 says something doesn't compute.


----------



## mod10g

If I can get sued for killing a deer, I wonder if I can counter sue for deer totaling my truck or running into my broadhead and breaking my arrow


----------



## Hutnicks

RecordKeeper said:


> You are right in so many ways. The original point of this thread was the past statements made by the "Regulatory Czar," with which of course I vehemently disagree. However, I couldn't help but to project humorous scenarios in my mind. Example, an animal suing a person...with human representation. Everyone in this country has the right to face their accuser in court. Somehow I can't get rid of the hilarious mental picture of a deer in the witness stand testifying about how my rage broadhead was too devistating to his poor body as it flew at 253 fps out of my 54 pound Martin MOAB!
> 
> I'm sorry, but it is just too ridiculous to even be taken seriously.


Well not really. If you look at Rwanda (I believe) and a few other counties in Africa they have reclassified Gorillas as **** Sapiens in order to be able to prosecute poachers as murderers. While I may believe that is a good idea there I fear animal rights activists will see it as support for their more and more ridiculous claims.

For a hypothetical endgame to all this I would recomend a read of John Varleys "Steel Beach" where his portrayal of the ultimate tree hugger and his actions will have you running for "Depends"


----------



## jesseo

Buksknr53 said:


> I watched an interview last nigh with Jack Hanna. He admitted that he was against hunting but saw it as the only way to control animal populations. He talked about the high number of animal/people encounters that result in death injury and property damage. He pointed out that as man continues to encroach on animal habitat, the problem will get worse, not just in the U.S. but all over the world. Hanna pointed out that in states that prohibit the hunting of species like bear and mt. lions, the number of animal attacks or encounters were on the rise because the animals had lost their fear of man. He said that only hunting would reverse the trend of animals associating humans with food or in some cases, as food.
> Jack Hanna's interview was right on the money. I was surprised to hear him support hunting as he did after admitting that he was against it. He saw hunting as a must have tool to control animal populations. I think that the majority of our elected officials feel the same way or at least I sure hope so.


Most people I know who are not hunters are not against hunting _per se_, they just choose not to hunt. Even my little sister, who is a vegitarian, is fine with the fact that her brother and father hunt. She's not the classic irrational PETA veg. She gets why we do what we do, and the important part we play in conservation. For me, it just seems like it's time I was more honest with myself about where my food comes from. Eating McDonalds all the time just disconnects you from the process of life and death and protein, etc. And I know the deer I shoot this fall have had a much better life than some angus cow shoved into a 6x2 pen and force fed. Humans are omnivores by nature, and I felt like it was time I cut out the middle man and helped control the deer population. That, and venison tastes much better, and is better for me.

So yes, there are a lot of non-hunters out there who appreciate and respect hunting.


----------



## jesseo

Midwest Dude said:


> 31 years old and just getting a BA in Elementary ed at the age of 31? My certified IQ of 140 says something doesn't compute.


Yup, and I love what I do. It just took me a while to figure out what I was _supposed_ to do. Happens to a lot of people, believe it or not. :darkbeer:


----------



## jim p

I have a question, not related to the thread, for you high IQ fellows. I don't know the answer for sure so if you are able to solve this problem tell me how you did it.

Lets assume that a camel can carry 1000 bananas as his maximum load. The camel eats one banana for every mile that he walks. The camel is to carry bananas across a 1000 mile wide desert. If the camel owner has 2000 bananas on one side of the desert what is the maximum number of bananas that he can transport to the opposite side of the desert.

Now back to the thread topic did anything exciting happen today?


----------



## Wileinie

I will have to agree to disagree with you on all things Obama but I do agree with your idea of being honest as to where your food comes from. I frequently use the same argument on my next door neighbor as she grills burgers while (jokingly, I hope) calling me her "murderous neighbor".


----------



## hawgdawg

RecordKeeper said:


> Actually, I have to agree with you. And I'll give you numbers to back up my opinion.
> 
> I retired in 2008. After 23 years of government service with the Treasury Department, my pension is $788 per month (It could have been $798, but I elected to pay $10 per month to ensure that it would pay my wife $788 per month in the event that I pass within the next 10 years). I am allowed to carry my subsidized healthcare into retirement (thank goodness)...at what was $290 per year last year, but it increased to $356 this year. So this gives me all of $432 per month to live on. No wonder I have to give up Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale for Milwaukee's Best Lite!


But in everything I've read and heard on the news everything is about the hight cost of insurance. Could it be that insurance is so high because of the hospitals and doctors. What insurance companies charge is determined by what they have to pay out. Not only healthcare reform but also medical costs should be reformed also. I don't think it's all the insurance companies fault. Probably medical services inreases in a higher percentage every year than insurance costs.


----------



## jesseo

Wileinie said:


> I will have to agree to disagree with you on all things Obama but I do agree with your idea of being honest as to where your food comes from. I frequently use the same argument on my next door neighbor as she grills burgers while (jokingly, I hope) calling me her "murderous neighbor".


I think that modern technology and modern conveniences have made it difficult for people like your neighbor to see the connections we have to the rest of nature. Humans have forgotten that to eat is to kill, whether directly or indirectly. 

I read a lot of things on AT about hunters stopping the bickering that goes on among us, whether it is about who you voted for, how you hunt, what you hunt, etc. There seems to be a common understanding that in the end, we need to band together. Is there a possibility we could take it one step further? Believe it or not, I think we can find some common ground with the antis, as long as both sides are willing to be open-minded... something that is becoming more and more uncommon every day, it seems. The real issue is that the welfare of wild animals cannot be separated from the land on which they live. Those who make _billions_ on the carving and elimination of wild lands watch hunters and anti-hunters fight with each other and laugh all the way to the bank. In a way, we are both trying to fight the same battle, but with different tactics.

History teaches that the only way to move from a side-track skirmish to the real battle, is to temporarily put aside our differences for efforts against a much more dangerous enemy... or, to re-examine our deeply-entrenched positions through dialogue and open minds. Whether hunter or anti-hunter, the real issue has always been “what is our relationship to the land on which we, and every other species, lives.”


----------



## jesseo

*I wrote a lot more in the hopes of editing my last post, but it took too long, so here it all is, with more thoughts on hunting, antis, politics, and rights:*

I read a lot of things on AT about hunters stopping the bickering that goes on among us, whether it is about who you voted for, how you hunt, what you hunt, etc. There seems to be a common understanding that in the end, we need to band together. Is there a possibility we could take it one step further? Believe it or not, I think we can find some common ground with the antis, as long as both sides are willing to be open-minded... something that is becoming more and more uncommon every day, it seems. HEAR ME OUT. _The real issue is that the welfare of wild animals cannot be separated from the land on which they live._ Those who make billions on the carving and elimination of our wild lands watch hunters and anti-hunters fight with each other and laugh all the way to the bank. In a way, we are both trying to fight the same battle, but with different tactics. Hunters and antis both strive to preserve the natural world. One group does it through conservation, one does it through preservation. Meanwhile, the land we both fight for and enjoy gets a bit more paved every day. The technological disconnect of humans and nature is (partially) to blame for groups like HSUS and PETA having the views they do. The leaders of these groups are extremists, but there are MANY members of the groups that have never been told the whole story, or have never opened their minds to the possibility that we are not necessarily the enemy. I know several people who are HSUS and PETA supporters because they think all the groups do is save puppies and kitties from cruel, abusive owners. That is what they are shown by the groups, and yes, there is hunting footage thrown in there as well, in attempt to lump us in with the belligerent drunk who beats and starves his dogs like we have all seen on "animal cops" shows.

Likewise, many anti-gun people are only anti-gun because they have never seen a gun used for anything besides murder and gang violence, in movies or in city streets. _Everything about guns where they live has to do with people hurting other people._ They see it on the news, along with words like "innocent" and "victim." Can we really blame them when they look at a deer and those same words automatically pop into their heads? Most of them are from inner cities where everything is easy and instant. Many have no concept of the beauty of wilderness, let alone seeing the possibility of a positive use for firearms. You don't see many people from small towns and farms trying to get rid of the Second Amendment. While the Second Amendment doesn't have anything to do with hunting, there is still a connection that MUST be made for those people to open their minds to the right to bear arms. Why would they support it if they only see the negativity of guns in their lives, and the defensive (dangerous, in their minds) tactics of the NRA and the angry pro-gun signs in people's yards and on their car bumpers?

These are just my tired thoughts at 3am on a Sunday, nothing more. But maybe there is _something_ useful there. Or maybe it's just that I need to sleep. Either way, I hope someone reads this and can identify with where I'm coming from.


----------



## Jim C

The entire philosophy of the socialists is a creeping leftward ratchet. Look how the courts work, FDR appointed legions of anti-tenth amendment activists. Later,DDE appointed conservatives who "respected" the precedents created by FDR's New Deal imperialists. That is why we have nonsense today like the ban on the machine guns made after 1986, social security ponzi schemes etc.

Those who voted for Obama obviously believed that the creeping crud of socialism was a good thing or they didn't understand it. Those who vote democrat have many reasons, some rational some not.


Many rich people I know vote dem. SOme are Jews who are wary of the religious right or just outright cannot stand the bible thumpers. Many are pampered country club wives who vote dem from reasons as narrowminded as reacting against the anti abortion attitude of some republicans to things as silly as say my sister in law who is engaged in 30 years of doing penance to make up for her white guilt of being both the daughter and wife of wealthy men. Some wealthy vote dem because they are libertines or homosexuals and tire of being told they are sinners by the religious right. Nonetheless they are cutting their own throats in the long run. 

Other rich vote dem because they make more money when dems are in power notwithstanding the tax hikes. Trial Lawyers, and union bosses for example. And of course, many politicians and their hangers on have to cater to the poor in order to get power. The Kennedys for example. For those people, their self interests are clearly served by voting for more socialism. The ultra rich such as buffett prefer such policies because they gain public favor from the lower middle class while those policies effectively kill off competition as well. High rates of taxes and a 55% death confiscation tax tends to prevent people from catching up to someone like Buffett.


As you move down the economic ladder you get more sane if shortsighted. These people have bought into the attitude that the dem leaders are really trying to help them. The fact is, voting dem because you want handouts is only playing into the hands of the dem masters who see you as nothing more than a pawn. The dem party cannot win elections unless there are millions of people dependent on government handouts. The existence of a massive amount of needy people is what serves as both the justification and the voting base for dem policies. Anyone who thinks uber rich dems want to actually end poverty is deluded.

Remember, the Dem party was basically created to "solve problems"-poverty especially. It was created as a brake on capitalism and the fact that the untalented and unlucky lose in capitalist systems,. Groups that have become wealthy and powerful by "solving problems" have no desire to see the justification for their existence disappear. Does anyone think, for example, that Sarah Brady would like to see all gun violence disappear? If so, the Brady Gang would have no more use and she'd have no power wealth and power she derives from railing against gun violence. Similarily, the rich dems don't want the poor to become independent, educated and un-needing of government help.

So for you who voted for Obama, knowing he was the most socialist candidate to run since Eugene Debbs, I'd love to hear what wre your true reasons. I ask this all the time and I rarely get an honest answer.

My answer for voting for McCain and Bush before him is honest and straightforward. The most important thing a president does is appoint judges and Bush's picks have, overall, been less likely to advance socialist nonsense than the ones carter and clinton picked.

The two clinton appointees on the supreme court voted against gun rights, the two W picks sustained the second amendment to some extent. Bush cut taxes and tried to roll back the death confiscation tax (confiscatory estate taxes are a central plank in the Communist Manifesto BTW) while Obama wants to jack them up. Every federal gun ban that has ever been passed was dem sponsored.


----------



## 20ftup

One thing about an IQ you can always be educated beyond that point
This is the point at which someone elses teachings over power your own common sense


----------



## Two Blade

jesseo said:


> Chief Supreme Court Justice John Roberts, who ended up being the deciding vote in District of Columbia vs Heller (2008),


Wrong! Ever since Justice Sandra Day O'Connor retired, Justice Anthony Kennedy is the courts wishy washy/swing vote Justice nowadays. There was NEVER any doubt as to the way Chief Justice Roberts would vote in the Heller case but there was a doubt with Kennedy.


----------



## Two Blade

jesseo said:


> useless to me as Glen Beck.


Why is Glen Beck useless?


----------



## MTNHunt

Hum....I guess I need to go back to school and sharpen my IQ:zip: to realize that a whole lot of people are upset with the current adminstration.

Great Pictures and viewing on this thread.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1014615


----------



## jesseo

AKM said:


> Wrong! Ever since Justice Sandra Day O'Connor retired, Justice Anthony Kennedy is the courts wishy washy/swing vote Justice nowadays. There was NEVER any doubt as to the way Chief Justice Roberts would vote in the Heller case but there was a doubt with Kennedy.


The vote was 5-4. If Roberts wasn't a SC Justice, someone else would have been, and may have voted the other way, making it 4-5. We all knew how Roberts would vote. That's part of the point.


----------



## jesseo

MTNHunt said:


> Hum....I guess I need to go back to school and sharpen my IQ:zip: to realize that a whole lot of people are upset with the current adminstration.
> 
> Great Pictures and viewing on this thread.
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1014615


Let it go, man. We're obviously not going to change each other's minds, and that's fine.


----------



## Jim C

jesseo said:


> Let it go, man. We're obviously not going to change each other's minds, and that's fine.


simple question (and I apologize if you have posted it before)

what are say the 4 most important reasons you voted for Bambi?


----------



## jesseo

Jim C said:


> simple question (and I apologize if you have posted it before)
> 
> what are say the 4 most important reasons you voted for Bambi?


No need to apologize. Your thoughts in your last post are a welcome addition to the thread. 

However, I'll reply to you via PM, since I have already proven that I don't always react well to some of the drivel spouted by a certain percentage of the people in this thread. :embara:

Anything I write at this point will likely invite more snarky comments and hold back a sensible dialogue. I've moved past that, but some clearly have not.


----------



## Two Blade

jesseo said:


> However, I'll reply to you via PM, since I have already proven that I don't always react well to some of the drivel spouted by a certain percentage of the people in this thread. :embara:


I asked you in another post why you think Glen Beck is useless. You didn't answer. I suspect you didn't answer because of what you posted above or you can't tell me why. I kinda like the guy and I also like it that he exposes the corruption in our Government on his show everyday. Maybe you know something about him that I don't. If he is a bad guy I sure would appreciate it if you would let me know what is so bad about him so that I can be on the lookout for it.


----------



## MTNHunt

jesseo said:


> No need to apologize. Your thoughts in your last post are a welcome addition to the thread.
> 
> However, I'll reply to you via PM, since I have already proven that I don't always react well to some of the drivel spouted by a certain percentage of the people in this thread. :embara:
> 
> Anything I write at this point will likely invite more snarky comments and hold back a sensible dialogue. I've moved past that, but some clearly have not.


Typical left wing liberal response, in there mind they don't see it as senseible dialogue, so lets try to demean (To behave or conduct oneself in a particular manner; to degrade; to humble oneself or another.) all the 95% of pissed off posters on this thread and sick and tired of this current adminstration actions.

Try the ignore button, it will work better.


----------



## MTNHunt

xswanted said:


> This is the part you need to learn to not let bother you.
> 
> I take no offense to name calling, couldn't care less what someone else thinks of me.
> 
> If you don't like the discussion anymore then quit posting. Wouldn't want you to be offended again.
> 
> Another funny thing is, is that you said "hate on me all you want" in your first post....then when someone does, you can't handle it.
> 
> Funny. I like it.
> 
> This administration will tell you anything you want to hear. They will try to take away rights to own guns, and my guess it they will make an attempt at taking away hunting. You or me or nobody else in this country knows Obama's "true" feelings on guns and hunting.
> 
> If you want to vote for the guy, go ahead. But don't come on a forum and say you voted for him, argue his point of views and then tell others try to belittle others that expressed their opinions on the opposite side of the story....no matter how they did it.
> 
> And since this is your first year hunting, how do we know you are truly dedicated to the sport?


Great post. Thanks for your comments. 

Dedication and the Passion of the sport of hunting and what it means to you and the future is something that evolves from years and years of sweat, tears and joy that is not something to be taken away by some politicians that clearly don't understand what it means in the real world.


----------



## jesseo

AKM said:


> I asked you in another post why you think Glen Beck is useless. You didn't answer. I suspect you didn't answer because of what you posted above or you can't tell me why. I kinda like the guy and I also like it that he exposes the corruption in our Government on his show everyday. Maybe you know something about him that I don't. If he is a bad guy I sure would appreciate it if you would let me know what is so bad about him so that I can be on the lookout for it.


If you like him, that's fine. He's the new "hot" political commentary guy right now. I find that he (like others of his ilk) likes to bend the truth to make it better for ratings. It's the same on the right and left. If you can sift past the rhetoric, they all have some useful things they are addressing, but their rhetoric gets to be too much for me. After fact-checking most of the political commentary show people, I realized that they weren't worth my time, as far as the truth/hyperbole quotient. They are there because they have opinions, but they are also there to make a lot of money. I know they all have causes they support and contribute to, but there is also a certain "I love the sound of my own voice" attitude that really gets to me. Continue watching if you like, but just don't take what any of them say for gospel, without independent fact-checking. Same as with regular news, only more so.


----------



## jesseo

MTNHunt said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Great post. Thanks for your comments.
> 
> Dedication and the Passion of the sport of hunting and what it means to you and the future is something that evolves from years and years of sweat, tears and joy that is not something to be taken away by some politicians that clearly don't understand what it means in the real world.


Admittedly, I don't have that yet. I can't even know for myself how dedicated I am until I do it...

However, I come from a family of hunters, it is just something I have not had the desire to do until recently. It took me a while to appreciate the bigger picture of hunting, and that it wasn't just "killing stuff." When I was younger, (barely hunting age), I went out quite a bit with my dad when he hunted deer and grouse. I enjoyed being in the woods, but I told him I didn't like the idea of me personally killing animals, and he was fine with that, just as I was fine with him killing them. He let me discover the bigger picture on my own. Now, I'm at a point where I want a more honest, personal connection to my food. It doesn't get much more personal than bowhunting. I know I have a more direct role to play now, both with my food and with conservation. 

So no, you can't know how dedicated I am to hunting any more than I can at this point. It wouldn't make sense for me to claim otherwise.


----------



## RecordKeeper

MTNHunt said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Great post. Thanks for your comments.
> 
> Dedication and the Passion of the sport of hunting and what it means to you and the future is something that evolves from years and years of sweat, tears and joy that is not something to be taken away by some politicians that clearly don't understand what it means in the real world.


Discouraging a new hunter is bad form.


----------



## wicked1Joe

RecordKeeper said:


> Discouraging a new hunter is bad form.


Well said!


----------



## Two Blade

jesseo said:


> I find that he (like others of his ilk) likes to bend the truth to make it better for ratings.


Care to provide any examples to back up your claim that Beck lies to boost his ratings?


----------



## MTNHunt

RecordKeeper said:


> Discouraging a new hunter is bad form.


I am not discouraging, I am simply reinforcing why I am against this current adminstration and the appointment of this person and what could possibly develop in the future. And pointed out a good post by someone. This is why I have chose to post my views on this. Maybe you should figure that out yourself and your sarcasism is just something that comes natural.

My FORM is my opinion and if you don't agree with it, then who cares. The whole forum is full of opinions, just as your ethics and is not the same as mine. So don't push them on me. I still have the opinion of anyone who supports this adminstration will have to look over there back and that will not change my views. Nothing seems safe, Guns, Hunting, right to bear arms, etc, etc......laugh all you want to, but the anti-hunters far out number us. Nice negative spin.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hayes0713 said:


> What do they expect to happen when and if they get this thing to pass through? Do they think that all the deer and other animals will just run around freely and be happy? Whats going to happen when the food runs out and the animals start dieing very slowly and painfully from starvation, or the animals start coming into town and cities to find food because their numbers are so great that they have eaten themselves out of house and home? ...............


It's not about the animals. No hunting means no need to own a gun or weapon. It's just another side of the disarm the population game.

It's about control.


----------



## MTNHunt

jesseo said:


> Admittedly, I don't have that yet. I can't even know for myself how dedicated I am until I do it...
> 
> However, I come from a family of hunters, it is just something I have not had the desire to do until recently. It took me a while to appreciate the bigger picture of hunting, and that it wasn't just "killing stuff." When I was younger, (barely hunting age), I went out quite a bit with my dad when he hunted deer and grouse. I enjoyed being in the woods, but I told him I didn't like the idea of me personally killing animals, and he was fine with that, just as I was fine with him killing them. He let me discover the bigger picture on my own. Now, I'm at a point where I want a more honest, personal connection to my food. It doesn't get much more personal than bowhunting. I know I have a more direct role to play now, both with my food and with conservation.
> 
> So no, you can't know how dedicated I am to hunting any more than I can at this point. It wouldn't make sense for me to claim otherwise.



Good Luck to you this year. And I hope you stick one, because you will be hooked for life.:darkbeer:


----------



## jesseo

AKM said:


> Care to provide any examples to back up your claim that Beck lies to boost his ratings?


Never said "lies," just doesn't always have accurate information. I'm sure he has people working for him to find notable issues, quotes, etc. to talk about on the air, and we don't always know their motives. They (or he) _may_ purposefully lie or stretch the truth, or they may simply not check background on what they find and report. The CARS website snafu is an example of the not-quite-truth Beck has talked about on his TV show. He showed a disclaimer on the dealer portion of the CARS government website that basically said that once an application is submitted, the government may, at their option, access any information regarding that application and the finances of the dealership. This disclaimer basically says to dealers: "don't try to scam us out of any extra $4500 subsidies by creating fake sales." Beck warned his viewers "do not go to this site, this is dangerous. The government can take your information!!" Problem one: that portion of the site was for dealer access, not consumer access. Consumers do not use that funtion on the website. Problem two: what personal information is he talking about?? Social Security #? Driver's license #? Income information? The government already receives this information from every single tax paying American citizen, and they get a convenient update every April. Beck inferred that the CARS program was a front for the government to steal your private information. Misinformed, or lying? I don't know for sure, but either way, it's not accurate or responsible reporting.

It's not just Beck, either. Olbermann does it on the left wing, as well as most of the other radio/tv poli-talk hosts. Beck is just the most popular right now, by a long shot.


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## jesseo

MTNHunt said:


> Good Luck to you this year. And I hope you stick one, because you will be hooked for life.:darkbeer:


My sincere thanks, and I'm sure I'll feel the addiction soon. :darkbeer:

Still WAAAAY too hot to sit in a tree in full camo in Wisconsin, but I'll get out there before the rut, for sure.


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## Two Blade

jesseo said:


> it's not accurate or responsible reporting.


Here is the youtube clip of what you are talking about. He does say "the dealer' but.........I will agree with you that he is stretching the truth a little bit. Just so you know that I do do a little thinking for myself, I will give you an example about Van Jones. Beck says that Van Jones is a 'self described commie'. Others have said it and I do believe it but Beck has never as best that I can remember, ever played any audio or video of him actually saying it. If it's from a interview, I am have trouble finding it. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM30nqfasyU


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## whitehunter2

come on guy's, it was just alittle over a year ago Beck was on another news channel bashing the Bush administration for not doing the right things to protect America from terror, and that we were going to have another major attack in this country any day now and the blood of the American people will be on Bush and Cheneys hands, BLA, BLA, BLA,
the guy's a sellout who will chant for whoever is paying him the most!


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## rholly9135

So one question....Do people really think that the current administration has time to initiate laws that outlaw hunting. We are fighting two wars, are on the verge of economical collapse, fighting about health care etc etc etc. If this new regulatory czar came to obama and said "Hey I think we should try to outlaw hunting" Obama would fire him and then hang him for bringing something like that to his plate. Even if the Obama administration wanted to get rid of hunting (which they don't) the battle would be so great that it would be impossible to win. Now, maybe if we were in the good years (clinton years) when there was virtually nothing going on they would have time to address this issue, but the outcome would be the same....A man's right to hunting is his right!!!


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## SHOOT-N-STAB

So, Glenn Beck is traitor because he goes after both sides of the isle. He's a sell out now because he disagrees with you. I would suggest that he has his own idea of what is wrong and right. Bush did go to far with some of his agendas. The liberals trashed him for intruding on personal information. Isn't Obama caring on these programs. Isn't Obama's health scare going to put your medical records in Sqashington. It is all about control, both parties. So, because Glenn doesn't like the government intrusion from both parties, he sells out. I personal believe a person who is, lets say a NRA member and a AFL-CIO member, is fighting themselves. They pay both sides to fight each other. Right! Just a thought.


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## whitehunter2

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> So, Glenn Beck is traitor because he goes after both sides of the isle. He's a sell out now because he disagrees with you. I would suggest that he has his own idea of what is wrong and right. Bush did go to far with some of his agendas. The liberals trashed him for intruding on personal information. Isn't Obama caring on these programs. Isn't Obama's health scare going to put your medical records in Sqashington. It is all about control, both parties. So, because Glenn doesn't like the government intrusion from both parties, he sells out. I personal believe a person who is, lets say a NRA member and a AFL-CIO member, is fighting themselves. They pay both sides to fight each other. Right! Just a thought.


ahh i'm sick of Beck, tired of how he feels he has to apologize for being of german decent every time he brings up the holocaust. i'm tired of his constant fear mongering, he's an actor, overly animated! i beleive the only thing he's really good at kissing the ass that feeds him, but then how the hell else are we going to get unbiased news, right???:wink:


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## jesseo

AKM said:


> Here is the youtube clip of what you are talking about. He does say "the dealer' but.........I will agree with you that he is stretching the truth a little bit. Just so you know that I do do a little thinking for myself, I will give you an example about Van Jones. Beck says that Van Jones is a 'self described commie'. Others have said it and I do believe it but Beck has never as best that I can remember, ever played any audio or video of him actually saying it. If it's from a interview, I am have trouble finding it.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM30nqfasyU


I've seen claims that he was associated with a group that published a communist "manifesto" that has recently disappeared from the internet. So of course, I've never seen the manifesto. 

That's all I've found besides a video where Beck seems to think he is a communist because he says we need to "change the way we treat each other" in order for the green movement to succeed. Pretty long shot from that quote to "commie." There may be more, but when that video stands alone, it just seems like he's overreacting.


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