# Chronograph out of what?!?



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

You betcha! Guitar pickups... As a 25+ year guitar player, I have lots of parts in the drawer. Pickups work by disrupting a magnetic field, so I thought I'd give it a try. What do you know, it works. 

I have them wired in series an run them into the microphone jack on my laptop. I use Audacity to record the blips, then measure the time and do some math. Works great. Now I just need to write an app to make it a bit easier...

Andy


----------



## GrayTech (Jan 29, 2013)

Great idea! You should be able to use the coil-chrono program that is available through a thread on AT. May save you time writing an app. 
Please provide a wiring diagram and more details... for instance, are the arrow points magnetized? What is the effective range of each pickup to "see" the arrow? etc.
Thanks


----------



## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

Now that reminds me of the electronic gadgets my dad used to build. Wish he could have stayed around long enough to teach me a few tricks.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

GrayTech said:


> Great idea! You should be able to use the coil-chrono program that is available through a thread on AT. May save you time writing an app.
> Please provide a wiring diagram and more details... for instance, are the arrow points magnetized? What is the effective range of each pickup to "see" the arrow? etc.
> Thanks


I'll stick some stuff up about it this weekend.


----------



## straightedge (Jun 7, 2013)

You sir are brilliant....


----------



## bowhunterdave (Dec 1, 2005)

interested too, seems to be an excellent invention!!


----------



## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Nice! I've been going to make a coil chrono but this may be a bit easier.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

Going to try and do some testing on it this weekend and see what kind of range it has. Also going to try coil-chrono to see if it works and if the results are similar.


----------



## Veni Vidi Vici (Jan 23, 2011)

Nice idea!

As long as the blips look like the ones shown in the Coil Chrono documentation, it should work fine. Each blip needs to have a distinct crossover point above and below the baseline signal, because Coil Chrono looks for this crossover, not peaks or valleys.


----------



## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

Huntinsker said:


> Nice! I've been going to make a coil chrono but this may be a bit easier.


AND a little less likely to smack it with an arrow. You cannot believe how many folks shoot their chronographs, when they have a very large area for pickup. I cannot imagine trying to shoot through a 3" hole, and not hitting the thing at some point.


----------



## Bad Juju (Jun 14, 2013)

waits impatiently to see if this is a GO!


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

Utter hard drive failure on my lappy this weekend. I'm reinstalling Windows now so I can give CoilChrono a shot with this. It should work just fine because I get the same signal that Veni Vedi Vid describes, but want to make sure the signal is within the threshold.


----------



## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

It's been done before and there's already an app:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1485253

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1485256


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

WillAdams said:


> It's been done before and there's already an app:
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1485253
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1485256


Not the same thing, really. Same general idea but very different implementation. And that's the app I'm talking about testing. The app I'm talking about developing would be for mobile devices.


----------



## Veni Vidi Vici (Jan 23, 2011)

handirifle said:


> AND a little less likely to smack it with an arrow. You cannot believe how many folks shoot their chronographs, when they have a very large area for pickup. I cannot imagine trying to shoot through a 3" hole, and not hitting the thing at some point.


Who would, or has, made one with a 3" hole?


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

Sorry gang, been a busy week but I finally got out this morning with the chrono and lappy. It works great with CoilChrono, I had zero issues getting it to register every time I shot. When I was testing it in the house just running an arrow over the pickups, I wasn't too sure because the signal was pretty weak if I was outside of a couple inches. Then I remembered in playig guitar that the harder you hit the strings the more output you get from the pickup. More disruption, more signal. Anyway, shooting an arrow over it caused a significant amount of current and made a nice signal.

Oh, and the tips are not magnetized before shooting. Just the disruption of the magnetic field with a ferrous material was enough.


----------



## shanedut (Sep 28, 2009)

Ok so how much the the pick ups cost? I messed around with the coil one and it works but I got tired of messing with the magnets.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

I happened to have a couple laying around so nothing for me, but they aren't expensive. You can buy used one from craigslst for $5-10 each. GuitarFetish.com has some cheap sets of 3 in their clearance section for $15. I would suggest the overwound set.

Maybe I'll see if I can find a good way to put some of these together cheaply, a little better looking than mine and ready to plug into CoilChrono, if anyone is interested.


----------



## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

manticus said:


> I happened to have a couple laying around so nothing for me, but they aren't expensive. You can buy used one from craigslst for $5-10 each. GuitarFetish.com has some cheap sets of 3 in their clearance section for $15. I would suggest the overwound set.
> 
> Maybe I'll see if I can find a good way to put some of these together cheaply, a little better looking than mine and ready to plug into CoilChrono, if anyone is interested.


I found these on this web site, "http://www.guitarfetish.com/Overwound-Strat-Set-Reverse-Wound-Black-BLOWOUT_p_575.html". Are these the correct pickups, they are "Overwound Strat Set- Reverse Wound"? 
Thanks,
Raymond


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

Those would be the ones. As a guitar pickup they're bottom of the barrel, but were not looking for vintage tone here, just a nice hot signal. Hence the overwound set.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

Definitely going to put this on my to do list


----------



## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

Would humbuckers work?


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

I tried buckers, but as the coils are wound opposite polarity to reduce hum, you don't get as strong a signal through the software. At least not the first time I tried it. I could test more, just haven't had a chance yet.


----------



## K Spud (Aug 8, 2013)

*What am I doing wrong?*

OK, so I built one of these today and I am having issues getting it to work right. How far from the pick ups does the arrow need to be? I keep getting NOVAL and ERR. once in a while I get a number around 200-220 (which is probably about right, Mathews FX 29/65) other time 765 or other way out number. Most of the time I get the NOVAL and ERR. Is there a way to trouble shoot my set up? Not sure what to even ask. I have not magnetized the tips, maybe I should?


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

I tried to stay within 6-8 inches on mine. Post some pics of your board/wiring and screenshots of a captured shot. The hardest thing I found was setting a threshold for the signal. If its too low you'll get a hugs number because it catches ripple waves. I had mine set at -.2 and .2 but play around with them.


----------



## K Spud (Aug 8, 2013)

Screen shot







Board







One end







Other end







Plug








Hope this looks OK


----------



## K Spud (Aug 8, 2013)

Just saw a mistake in the wiring


----------



## K Spud (Aug 8, 2013)

Guess not. It looks right. I did tie the "Tip " and "Ring" together, if that matters.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

A few things I see to try...

1. Manually set your thresholds to match the ones in my pic and threshold to 100%.

2. Turn off Auto-Scale until you get things working.

3. What type of metal did you mount in front of the pickups? If it's anything ferrous, that will throw off the magnetic field.

4. For sake of electrical cleanliness, don't tie tip and ring together. It's better not to split the signal.

Try that and see how things work.


----------



## K Spud (Aug 8, 2013)

Made the changes to the settings. That is plastic in front of the pick ups, to protect them. I will separate the tip and ring and try it again in the morning. Thanx for your help.

Karl


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

will have to look into using pickups...I might still have a few in a box somewhere. If not, I've got a small mic amp and will see how that works with coils


----------



## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

I have got it to work. First some pictures of course!:
















Pickups are now held in place using tape, until I find my box with small screws again. And the tape on the wiring I'll explain.

Sawing, drilling, gluing, soldering, heatshrink, done. Set it up before a target and shoot an arrow over it.
No measurement.
Selected the wrong microphone. Using a laptop which also has an internal mic, guess which one is default..... Yeah, you'll get a signal alright....
With the right microphone selected I get no signal. Nothing. Measured all the wiring and coils, everything is fine. Then I read in the original CoilChrono project that in the microphone plug they use the ring and the tip connected. So I just switch the ring to the tip connection (cutting the heatshrink to bits on the board side and then taping the new wires); shoot an arrow and presto, signal!
Getting a measurement out of the signal is another story. The signal looks different from what manticus and the others are seeing. This has to do with the difference in speed and type of point/arrows used. I have carbon beginner arrows with a solid 1" point on them, and my normal aluminum arrows which have a smaller point (Easton NIBB). Shooting them from my 20# trainer bow, the beginner arrows give two pulses on each pickup, but by settings the high and thresholds manually I can get a measurement out of it. It does pay to read the original CoilChrono software instructions, it does give insight in how the program reads a signal. The beginner arrows (335gr) clocked 126fps, my normal alu (440gr) 97fps. Shooting my normal bow indoor is asking for trouble, so I'll have to wait to get to the range to test at "normal" speeds.

An the question how close do you need to shoot the arrow: I've shot close to 2 inches. I've tried 4" but get no signal. Maybe if I use my other bows I get different results.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

Nice! Out of curiosity, do you know anything about the pickups you're using? Brand, magnet (ceramic or AlNiCo), etc? Can you post shots of your tips, underside of your pickups and a screenie of a good capture so I can see what your signal looks like?


----------



## K Spud (Aug 8, 2013)

I think that the distance is my problem. I can get it to work, but I have to be really close. 
I am using the pick ups pointed out earlier in this thread from GF.
Here are my working screen shots.


----------



## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

No idea what kind of pickups these are or what magnet they use. There are numbers on the back 9.6, 10 and 10.4 which might relate to the distance of the six pins on top, they are spaced differently. Came with white caps, seller didn't know brand either, only that they sounded alright in his guitar.









I couldn't find an inch ruler, so you must adopt the metric system now . Left is the Beman Flash 570-14, on the right an Easton Platinum Plus 2016 with NIBB point.









Couldn't for the live of me get the number to work in the 126fps again, so used a second wav where the "Set Thresholds from current recorded file" actually worked. This is the Beman:









Easton PP:


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

K Spud said:


> I think that the distance is my problem. I can get it to work, but I have to be really close.
> I am using the pick ups pointed out earlier in this thread from GF.
> Here are my working screen shots.


Fantastic! I'm working on a few things to focus the magnetic field a bit to get more distance.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

ThomVis said:


> No idea what kind of pickups these are or what magnet they use. There are numbers on the back 9.6, 10 and 10.4 which might relate to the distance of the six pins on top, they are spaced differently. Came with white caps, seller didn't know brand either, only that they sounded alright in his guitar.
> 
> FYI, if you see a magnet glued on the back of the pickup, they are ceramic and the pole pieces are steel. In AlNiCo pickups, the pole pieces themselves are magnets. In the world of guitar, AlNiCo are smoother sounding, ceramic are more harsh. Both definitely have their place, but I digress...
> 
> ...


My comments in purple.


----------



## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

Your way over my head with the tech but props to you on this build!


----------



## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

Any updates here? How far apart are your pickups?


----------



## SonnyJ (Sep 2, 2012)

Interesting....Are they just straight wired, or do you have pots and capacitors (like would be on guitar) wired in somehow?


----------



## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

From the wiring diagram on the 1st page, it appears that they are simply wired in series and then connected to the Mic plug in. I have the pickups, now I need to go to radioshack to get a Mic plug.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

They are just straight wired (in series), no pots or switches, no power. When the magnetic field in the pickup is disturbed by the metal tip passing over it, a small current is generated and sent through to the 1/8" jack. Luckily, it's enough of a signal that the computer/software has no trouble distinguishing the blips. It's took a bit of playing with the numbers, but really works great.

My pickups are 14" apart. I wouldn't go too much closer than that. Further may even be better. Either way, there is a setting in the software for distance.

Hope this helps!

Andy


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

get an in-line mic preamp...should be able to boost the signal enough to help with distance issues.

something like this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1-Channel...078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337410768e

what I want to do is to build crude metal detector (2), large hoop, about 2' and run the signal to a mic input...but I'm too lazy- that and I really don't care about speed right now- fart to many form issues--"Fart" lol- yea, that about describes my problems...uncomfortable and stinky.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

Heck i'm just gonna lay my Tele down and shoot over top of it! LOL j/k. Great idea though! I built a coil chrono last night but I am still tweaking the software settings to get it to work.


----------



## donjuan (Dec 19, 2009)

Cool. Wonder if EMG's will work????


----------



## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

What is an EMG?


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

EMG is a manufacturer of pickups. If memory serves, they make some that have a built in preamp--boost in signal and maybe a clean up of noise


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

I just put one together out of some scrap single coils I had laying around and mounted them 22" apart on a board. Works perfect! Way better than the coil chrono I built on an 8" concrete form tube. I couldn't get that one to work. This one is easier because I don't have to magnetize the tips. Thanks for the idea! I'll post pics later of my rig


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

flinginairos said:


> I just put one together out of some scrap single coils I had laying around and mounted them 22" apart on a board. Works perfect! Way better than the coil chrono I built on an 8" concrete form tube. I couldn't get that one to work. This one is easier because I don't have to magnetize the tips. Thanks for the idea! I'll post pics later of my rig


Fantastic! Glad it's working for you. Such a simple device and as long as you use tips made of some sort of ferrous metal, should work just fine.

As for EMG's, they have a pretty small magnetic field and they require power. May work but they will certainly add some complexity. Besides, they aren't altogether inexpensive.


----------



## Get Bucked (Jul 11, 2010)

would adding more pickups help?


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

Get Bucked said:


> would adding more pickups help?


No. Adding another one would just give you another blip on the screen and wouldn't help the signal any. With two cheap single coils I get a very strong signal shooting a couple inches above the magnets.


----------



## Derriick (Jan 12, 2014)

This is awesome, im gonna have to try this.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

Derriick said:


> This is awesome, im gonna have to try this.


Go for it. It's an easy build and works great!


----------



## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

Finished mine this am. It works but I think I will end up getting some different pickups. These seem a little weak. I have to get pretty close to get a good signal.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

NoDeerInIowa said:


> Finished mine this am. It works but I think I will end up getting some different pickups. These seem a little weak. I have to get pretty close to get a good signal.


Look for some cheap single coils or P90's with ceramic magnets. Those should work good. Mine are super cheap ceramic single coils and they work good!


----------



## live2draw (Nov 6, 2010)

wonder how a humbucker would do.... or an old set of EMG's lol


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

live2draw said:


> wonder how a humbucker would do.... or an old set of EMG's lol


I already tried a couple different humbuckers. The fact that they are designed to eliminate hum by reversing the polarity keeps them from providing a good blip. This is why I recommend using a overwound or "hot" single coil. You will get a much stronger signal in this case.

As for EMG's, see the earlier posts.


----------



## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I have a question. I see that the pickup is build of magnets and coil made of wire. At work I have a lot of magnets that we use in electric motors. If I wind the magnet wire around it and use it instead of guitar pickup will this work and maybe be stronger then the guitar pickup instead?


----------



## Don Schultz (Jul 5, 2002)

shanedut said:


> Ok so how much the the pick ups cost? I messed around with the coil one and it works but I got tired of messing with the magnets.


You can find 'em for a couple of $$ and up to couple of hundred $$. Cheap junky pickups that work should do the the job. Craigs List?


----------



## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

$3.40 from Hong Kong SIngle Coil Pickup


----------



## km04 (Feb 2, 2013)

Very nice. I just saw the other thread for the coil chrono about two days ago then this one tonite. I'm taking that as a signal that I am supposed to build one. Thanks for the write up.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

This is a super easy build and it actually works pretty darn good. The only downside is you have to shoot pretty close to the pickups. Don't let you buddy shoot over it. Mine hit the pickup on mine. Man, it was cool watching stuff fly all over. Lol.


----------



## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

NoDeerInIowa said:


> This is a super easy build and it actually works pretty darn good. The only downside is you have to shoot pretty close to the pickups. Don't let you buddy shoot over it. Mine hit the pickup on mine. Man, it was cool watching stuff fly all over. Lol.


Get it set up like in post #32 and your pickups will survive.


----------



## squid013 (Jan 12, 2014)

exact same idea as the Magnetospeed chronograph that i use on my rifles. Its a magnetic bar that you strap onto the barrel and shoot across it. I just have yet to figure out how to shoot my bow across it.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

ThomVis said:


> Get it set up like in post #32 and your pickups will survive.


That is a very good idea. I have since picked up a pact pro with ir kit. I may have to pick up a couple more pickups and try again.


----------



## beazyears (Sep 26, 2013)

how do you know if its reading the proper speed? I have no idea what speed my bow is. When I play with the threshholds the reading changes???
Does someone have the high, and low settigs that work for them?


----------



## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Question about the jack. Does it matter if I buy the one with one black ring on the tip? Or it have to be two rings like in photos above?


----------



## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Looks like no one is watching that thread anymore. Anyway I will post some photos of my set up. It's not wired yet but I hope it should work. If not I can still reuse the pickups. It only cost me about $10 to purchase all the parts. I did it this way because some people said you have to shoot pretty close to pcikups so to disturb the magnetic field.

View attachment 2023138


View attachment 2023139


View attachment 2023140


----------



## Scottie_p74 (Oct 29, 2012)

does it matter what kinda pickups i use? i have also been playing guitar for a while something like 15 +years now and i also have all kinda guitar parts in the drawer.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa (Mar 5, 2012)

Just a simple overwound single coil works best. No humbuckers or other fancy stuff.


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

Yes, overwound single coil and it must be a stereo jack. Sorry, about 5 months late on the response... I have to say I'm really glad to see so many people giving this a shot and getting it working. 

Andy


----------



## TimGerst (Aug 5, 2010)

Just found this on EBay.. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321464758148 

Debating on trying this myself... Will these work?


----------



## TimGerst (Aug 5, 2010)

And is there an iPhone app for this yet? Just plug into the iPhone and the app will read the blips and give you a reading, or does it need to be used with a desktop?


----------



## manticus (Jul 12, 2013)

TimGerst said:


> And is there an iPhone app for this yet? Just plug into the iPhone and the app will read the blips and give you a reading, or does it need to be used with a desktop?


Those pickups should work ok, but I'd spend a few bucks more and get the overwounds. They will work better. Also, I haven't seen anything for the iPhone yet specific for this task. However, there are apps that will record a signal and you could do a bunch of math to figure it out.

Andy


----------



## TimGerst (Aug 5, 2010)

manticus said:


> Those pickups should work ok, but I'd spend a few bucks more and get the overwounds. They will work better. Also, I haven't seen anything for the iPhone yet specific for this task. However, there are apps that will record a signal and you could do a bunch of math to figure it out.
> 
> Andy


Ok cool.. Thanks


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

Pysiek said:


> Looks like no one is watching that thread anymore. Anyway I will post some photos of my set up. It's not wired yet but I hope it should work. If not I can still reuse the pickups. It only cost me about $10 to purchase all the parts. I did it this way because some people said you have to shoot pretty close to pcikups so to disturb the magnetic field.
> 
> View attachment 2023138
> 
> ...


Awesome!! That was the one thing I didn't like about my guitar pickup chrono. It was iffy shooting that close to the pickups and I actually hit one and destroyed the whole rig LOL. That looks awesome!


----------



## someguyincali (Feb 23, 2015)

You can get pickups pretty cheap! Awesome. Cheap pickups are very noisy when used in a guitar but for registering blips they are perfect! Hats off to the OP for a great DIY idea!


----------



## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Have anyone tried this method? http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1312148525/Poor+Man's+Electronic+Chronograph
According to this website http://www.pilkguns.com/Chrony.shtml it should work. I'm going to try it.


----------

