# 18m Indoor Olympic Recurve Arrow Help



## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

Keep shooting the arrows you have, they are just fine.


----------



## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

your equipment looks top notch and except for the limbs and arrows which you may replace as you get stronger they should get you to a very high level...

welcome and good shooting!


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

jmvargas said:


> your equipment looks top notch and except for the limbs and arrows which you may replace as you get stronger they should get you to a very high level...
> 
> welcome and good shooting!


Thanks!
Yeah, I wanted quality equipment to start with rather than beginner fare that I would continuously need to change, repair or upgrade. 
Are the limbs poor quality or do you just mean low weight?
I would like some quality arrows geared towards indoor. Do you have any suggestions?


----------



## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

Many recurve archers have come to the conclusion that "normal" arrows are more forgiving and they score better with them compared to line-cutters. Besides, the weakest of the line-cutters would be way too stiff for what you are shooting now. If you want better arrows just because (and I completely understand that sentiment, pretty much all my equipment is better than I am) go with either the Platinum Plus or X7 aluminum with feathers for indoors. The X7 has won many Olympic gold and World Championships. The Easton spine charts are notoriously stiff, so keep that in mind when you choose the size. You didn't mention your DL, but the .800 spine at 30" long should be in the ball park for 26# OTF. 

Paul


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

At 24# we can't be talking true 23xx linecutters, more like 17xx. Personally I'd use some feathered aluminums inside and what you have outside, where the carbon weight and vanes are probably more suited. My experience light carbon arrows with vanes want to take off inside and are less forgiving. I get a double digit scoring difference on a 300. But the process of trying to group carbons with vanes inside can be a useful challenge to make you clean up issues.


----------



## DarrenHJA (Dec 27, 2014)

You want line cutters! Go for X23


----------



## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

DarrenHJA said:


> You want line cutters! Go for X23


:spam2:


----------



## DarrenHJA (Dec 27, 2014)

Mika Savola said:


> :spam2:


You must not like those shafts


----------



## hooktonboy (Nov 21, 2007)

DarrenHJA said:


> You must not like those shafts


Draw weight 26# - x23s will be so slow off that draw weight that any slight variation in the shot will really harm the score...


----------



## wfocharlie (Feb 16, 2013)

A lot of Olympic recurve archers are just using small diameter spin wing arrows indoors. I used aluminum for a couple of years and decided to try my spin wings indoors. I like them better and I shoot better with them. It saves you having to buy, maintain and tune two different sets of arrows. Some of the top recurve archers in the world shoot spin wings indoors. I personally wouldn't go any stiffer then a 1000 spine arrow if you get new arrows and plan to continue to shoot at your draw weight, but everyone is different.


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

wfocharlie said:


> I personally wouldn't go any stiffer then a 1000 spine arrow if you get new arrows and plan to continue to shoot at your draw weight


A 1000 spine! Why?

I've heard what you guys are saying, and to be honest even though the distance is the same I shoot 18m outside in my back yard more frequently than indoor. Plus, if/when I decide to move out to the longer distances I'll need skinny arrows anyway. 

I've been looking at the Victory VAP Target V3s. Planning to put some sort of indoor/outdoor vanes on maybe. At least if I build my own arrows I could tune them. The Fivics came with 1 point weight and all glued together. I did strip the vanes off one of them and it shots high left (10:30), which I have think means the spine is too heavy and my nocking point is low? The Fivics are 800 spine what should I go with in the VAPs? A 1000?


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

MPSchenck said:


> I've been looking at the Victory VAP Target V3s. Planning to put some sort of indoor/outdoor vanes on maybe. At least if I build my own arrows I could tune them. The Fivics came with 1 point weight and all glued together. I did strip the vanes off one of them and it shots high left (10:30), which I have think means the spine is too heavy and my nocking point is low? The Fivics are 800 spine what should I go with in the VAPs? A 1000?


I couldn't edit my previous post. 

The VAP spine chart puts me in the middle of 700, but everybody says its a spine heavy like most charts which would mean an 800. 

My draw length is 28.5" I left that out above.


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

Sorry I keep posting as I keep reading. 

Looking at Shooting the Stickbow - Arrow Guide it seems like the 800-900 (880) spine would be correct for 25#ish with 29" arrows. I was thinking of starting with the 110g top hats for the VAPs. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Varza (Sep 11, 2014)

I don't think the arrow guide is a one size fits all kind of thing. My only experience is trying to shoot 730 Carbon Ones cut to 28" with a 28# draw weight and they are WAAY too stiff. 800 for 25 will be stiff for sure, 900 might work for you, 1000+ too. Check the VAP arrow guide as well, and after that, nothing beats experimenting, but if only we had the money...

The Easton charts run stiff, at least for me, I know this for sure now. No experience with VAPs. Take it for what it's worth...


----------



## wfocharlie (Feb 16, 2013)

MPSchenck said:


> A 1000 spine! Why?
> 
> Lots of time spent actually tuning arrows with bow weights in the 26-30# range. I get a good tune with a 29" 1000 spine carbon one @29#. I have read many posts by limbwalker who has lots of tuning experience in the lower draw weights from coaching youth and he seems to have had similar results. Many tuning charts appear to be stiff for liability or other reasons.
> 
> At your experience level you could certainly keep shooting the arrows that you currently have. My post was mainly my opinion if you decide to buy new arrows.


----------



## RickBac (Sep 18, 2011)

As many people have said on here. Stay with small diameter arrows that are spined correctly for you. Your score will be better.

Don't worry about line cutters.


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

wfocharlie said:


> I get a good tune with a 29" 1000 spine carbon one @29#.


With what grain point?


----------



## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

MPSchenck said:


> Thanks!
> Yeah, I wanted quality equipment to start with rather than beginner fare that I would continuously need to change, repair or upgrade.
> Are the limbs poor quality or do you just mean low weight?
> I would like some quality arrows geared towards indoor. Do you have any suggestions?


.....we share the same philosophy with regards to equipment as i also started getting the best i could afford at the beginning and gradually upgraded to what you now see in my signature...

i have had these same equipment since 2008 and have yet to find anything better...for me..

i believe your SF limbs are made by win&win and i have owned a lot of their higher end limbs(winex and winact) including those made for PSE(elites and expressions) and they were all excellent qand used by many past Olympians.
.
....SO---i just meant low weight.


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

wfocharlie said:


> I get a good tune with a 29" 1000 spine carbon one @29#.





MPSchenck said:


> With what grain point?


Does anyone have a idea about a starting grain point weight? I'm nervous about "temporarily" gluing in a point with low temp hot melt and not being able to get it out. 




jmvargas said:


> .....we share the same philosophy with regards to equipment as i also started getting the best i could afford at the beginning and gradually upgraded to what you now see in my signature...
> 
> i have had these same equipment since 2008 and have yet to find anything better...for me..
> 
> ...


Thanks! I did a lot of equipment research and tried to come up with a bow set up that would grow with me until upgrading would be necessary. I initially went "cheap" on a few things I thought I could cut corners on like my tab. I first bought a X-Spot HOCKii Finger Tab in XL and it was too big, but I also hated the finger loop/buckle system and quickly replaced it with a Fivics Saker 1 and love it. I also cheaped out on arrows because I didn't really know anything about building them and didn't want to ruin some shafts and waste cash trying to learn. I'm mostly over that apprehension now.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

It's extremely easy to get points out which are glued in with hot melt. Safest is to just hold them in boiling water for a little while. It is incapable of being hot enough to harm carbon.

Grant


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

grantmac said:


> Safest is to just hold them in boiling water for a little while. It is incapable of being hot enough to harm carbon.
> 
> Grant


Awesome! Thank you!


----------



## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

to the OP:.....i just use the same arrows indoors and outdoors---mckinney 725s..

i may go to softer ones however when i start using my light--26#--limbs soon..


----------



## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

mathematical analysis has shown that line cutters are of much less importance than correct spine when shooting outer 10s.


----------



## wfocharlie (Feb 16, 2013)

MPSchenck said:


> With what grain point?


90 grain


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

wfocharlie said:


> 90 grain


Awesome! Thank you!


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

I appreciate all the help so far folks! 

Ok I'm geared up to order the following VAP Target V3s (figured I'd split the difference between V1s and V6s, they are only $5.04 more per dozen than the V6s) 1000 spine cut to 28.5 inches, VAP SS Target point (small) in 90gr-110gr (I'm going to start with the 110gr), VAP Pin Bushings, Beiter Pin Nocks Size #1, and Gas Pro 2.5" Target Efficient Spin Vanes ("Designed for recurve and compound bows both indoor and outdoor shooting"). I'm also planning on trying the Beiter In-Out nock in size 2-65X1.

Sound like a plan?


----------



## wfocharlie (Feb 16, 2013)

I use Easton stuff so I can't comment on the nock fit and such but I would just say (1)Make sure you don't get the arrows too short. You can always cut a little off but can't add any. (2) Get them to throw in a few extra nocks and spin wings incase you damage some.

Based on my own experience and other posts I have read on here it sounds like you have about as good of a guess on arrow selection as you can come up with, without actually shooting and tuning them at your 26# draw weight. If you go up in draw weight eventually, you have the 800s to mess around with. Good luck


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

wfocharlie said:


> Based on my own experience and other posts I have read on here it sounds like you have about as good of a guess on arrow selection as you can come up with, without actually shooting and tuning them at your 26# draw weight. If you go up in draw weight eventually, you have the 800s to mess around with. Good luck


Thank You!


----------



## MPSchenck (Jun 17, 2013)

Hello again

I got my bit of kit in from Lancaster. I have a couple of new questions...

1) VAPs are "Spine Aligned". I'm pretty sure on a compound that is supposed to be straight up since an arrow shout from a compound is supposed to sort of porpoise up and down. Recurve arrows fishtail side-to-side so where does that line go for recurve arrows? I want to assume ti goes in like with the cock vane, to the side, but you know what happens when you assume. 

2) How in the heck do I get the Beiter Pin Nocks to stay on the pins? It's a tight fit but it pops off waaaaay to easy.


----------



## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

compound arrows are not supposed to porpoise. however, in practice a slight tail high aspect leaving the bow (1-2cm paper tear at 2-3m) is desirable as it ensure the fletching and nock are clearing the rest. recurve arrows will fishtail due to the string coming off the fingers with a degree of sideways movement.

I am not familiar with VAP arrows but I find the concept of "spine alignment" dubious. a quality shaft should have no distinctly different spine at all - if any company is admitting theirs does, I would not be purchasing their products.

if they do in fact have a distinct spine, then I wonder how the shafts are graded - are they indexed against that spine first? is the static spine measured with the "spine" at 90° to the direction of flex (in which case it should make no difference) or with it in the line of flex? is the deflection gauged with the "spine" on the side of the pressure on the shaft, or the convex side? if the former, then theoretically then then shafts may be stiffer than indicated depending on where you fletch them, and weaker for the latter.

if you think it matters, I suggest just putting the "spine alignment" mark in the same place on each arrow, so at least the effect is consistent.

if the Beiter nocks are a tight fit already then "shimming" with a plastic bag is probably not the solution. sounds more like the pins are a funny shape or length and you need to look at using other nocks.


----------



## spiz (Sep 15, 2018)

I am newbie too, 18m too, I am quite happy with Carbon Impact Super Club Arrow. Good price for a newbie


----------



## Tylerbach (Dec 10, 2018)

I really like the forged plus riser, it is the best bang for your buck. Your limbs are solid as well. I shot the same limbs back when I started with recurve. Personally I liked shooting the Bambooms by Kinetic Archery, so if you can get your hands on a set of those (they're out of production but you may be able to get them used) when it is time to up your poundage I think you would like them. Your set up sounds good and I wish you luck on getting your pins! Enjoy shooting!


----------



## Speedly (Jan 23, 2019)

It is possible to get a little bit better of a carbon arrow that's 23/64 - the Carbon Express X-Buster, available in up to 700 spine. They might still be a little stiff, but you could make up with that by adjusting point weight.

The point of the above bit is to inform you that it's -possible- to get linecutters, and that you have options. Now, if you're new-ish, I would strongly recommend that you keep the arrows you've got. Linecutters are definitely more unforgiving than skinny arrows, and it's because they're heavier. This means they spend more time on the string, and any mistake you make gets amplified by that increased contact time. Once you're able to produce a more consistent release, the size of the arrow does begin to pick up more points due to their diameter, but they'll actually lose you points if you use them before you're ready.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

'IF' you achieve a beautiful tune with fat arrows, 'AND' you have a very consistent shot/release, then you MIGHT possibly gain a few points by catching some lines. Achieving a beautiful/forgiving tune with fat arrows - especially with a low draw weight - is rare. For the vast majority of amateur archers that I've seen, the fatties are much less forgiving in a less-than-beautiful-tune and a poorly executed shot release with the fatty will cost them 2-3 points versus that same poor shot with a better-tuned skinny arrow. Most of these archers are likely better off concentrating on a better/more forgiving tune with their more-easily-matched-to-their-draw weight/finger-release-characteristics skinny arrows.

On the other hand, it's your time and money and motivation - if you want to explore the experience of tuning/shooting fat arrows indoors, no law against it and you'll learn a lot in the process and can come to your own conclusions. 

ps - sorry for the unreadability of those first two sentences ... just trying to get all my caveats in there for the drive-by'rs :darkbeer:


----------



## 74f100 (Sep 17, 2017)

The spine line is supposed to point away from the riser. On mine, I have them indexed that way. But for me, it hasnt been super important. But then, my shooting has been horrid the last few months


----------



## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

OP, I think your 800 are stiff for 25/26# on the fingers, at 29". If they were 30" I think they'd be very slightly stiff but slight enough to fix with your plunger. So I think you need 900 or 1000 at 29", and if 900 play around with different weight points.


----------



## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

Speedly said:


> It is possible to get a little bit better of a carbon arrow that's 23/64 - the Carbon Express X-Buster, available in up to 700 spine. They might still be a little stiff, but you could make up with that by adjusting point weight.


 No. Point weight has much less affect on tune than removing 1/2" from the shaft (of course I'm talking about going in the opposite direction to make an arrow stiffer)... much less. You'd have to go from say...80 grain to about 200 grain to make that 700 spine you mentioned weaken to 800, and maybe that still wouldn't be enough extra weight. And 800 is still way too stiff for 26# on the fingers, so that's just plain a losing battle.


----------



## Speedly (Jan 23, 2019)

You're kind of splitting hairs - the point is that it's possible for OP to get where they're trying to go. It would be a pain and I don't recommend it, but it's possible.


----------



## xpistalpetex (Sep 3, 2017)

maybe x7 1714 (963) aluminum arrows?


----------



## ceratops (May 17, 2017)

Still an interesting discussion... But, direct advice to the OP comes a bit late - his/her posts are dated 2015.


----------



## Wladimir (May 24, 2018)

lksseven said:


> ...Achieving a forgiving tune ...


How to achieve "a forgiving tune"? Which factors can make a good tune more or less forgiving?


----------



## Speedly (Jan 23, 2019)

ceratops said:


> Still an interesting discussion... But, direct advice to the OP comes a bit late - his/her posts are dated 2015.


Good catch. I totally missed that.


----------

