# Master Class Olympic recurve bow setup and tuning video



## 74f100 (Sep 17, 2017)

Thanks Chris, I'll check it out when I get to a pc. I can always use help tuning


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

That is worth logging in to say thank you for!!!

Thank you for making this...your videos have been very informative and helpful.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

One important detail that got edited out somehow

when i switch from stiff plunger to regular plunger, 

If you shoot barrel shaft, leave center shot dead center and sight as it is

If you shoot parallel shaft, then move arrow to offset and adjust the sight to be over the arrow. 

Too many details to keep track of over that video. That point got lost in the editing. 


Thank you for the appreciation and compliments. 

Chris


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

I'd like to ask this question: Why are barreled shafts set up differently? Perhaps this is a question that George T can answer directly, or someone can explain as a proxy...but I'd like to know why they should be set up differently. I've never understood the "why" and just taken it on faith...

They flex the same as a regular arrow, yes? If not, would Nano extreme (tri-spine arrows) be offset in the same manner?

When I watched Brady Ellison's video, his x10s were offset like parallel shafts (3/4 tip outside string). When I watched Jake Kaminski's video, he nudges the tip slightly outside center shot. When I read George T's notes at a 2011 seminar, he recommends anything over 550 spine be set in direct center shot as a starting reference.

Rick Stonebraker recommends the tip be fully to the edge of the string.

All very talented and capable archers.

It's a very interesting thing.


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

Oh, and some Australian guide recommends 1/2 of the tip to edge of string.

Don Rabska recommends the tip be 1/16" or less outside the bowstring.

Kim Hyung Tak recommends tip fully to edge of string...even x10s.

Very interesting. I'd assume that center shot becomes a dynamic tuning issue, very dependent on the archer's release...but I've always wondered why x10s seem to start in the middle.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

Great info Chris! Thanks for putting it all it one place! It made me realize that I'd missed a step or two in setting up my bows...back to the workbench .


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

DarkLightStar said:


> I'd like to ask this question: Why are barreled shafts set up differently? Perhaps this is a question that George T can answer directly, or someone can explain as a proxy...but I'd like to know why they should be set up differently. I've never understood the "why" and just taken it on faith...
> 
> They flex the same as a regular arrow, yes? If not, would Nano extreme (tri-spine arrows) be offset in the same manner?
> 
> ...


X10s and barrel shafts are weaker on the ends and flex easier. They dont need any help to flex around the riser. Parallel shafts are stiffer than barrel shafts and do need the offset to help get around the riser. 

I shoot a 550 X10. If i shot a parallel shaft, i would shoot around a 700 spine. 

Jake Kaminski believes the barrel shape of the X10 arrow is slimmer at the point that where it is at brace height. He thinks if you pull the X10 arrow back and then shoot it, the taper of the arrow will move the arrow to the inside of center. This is technically correct, but does not really factor in real world. 

The arrow is only on the plunger for about 2 inches near the point. The place on the arrow at brace height is also tapered. On my arrows which are 28 inches long, the difference between the arrow diameter when it butts off the plunger and the arrow diameter where it touches the plunger at brace height is less than 3mm in diameter. That equates to 1-1.5mm difference in side which is not enough difference to affect my centershot. I cant see that difference looking at the shaft. If i shot less than 28 inch arrow, it would be the same diameter. If your arrow is longer, there can be more of a milimeter difference. Where your arrow touches at brace height will also factor. The higher the brace height, the thicker the arrow and the difference is even smaller. Its too small a setting to be noticed by almost all archers. 

I have found that barrel shafts like X10s like a dead center centershot. I know archers who shoot X10s with an offet simply because thats how they shot parallel shafts before and got use to it. 

Its telling that George ( who basically made the X10s and did all the testing for spine with them) recommends dead center. 

But your milage may vary. 

I do not know anything about the tri spine arrows. 

Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

DarkLightStar said:


> Kim Hyung Tak recommends tip fully to edge of string...even x10s.


I have had Korean coaches tell me that the Korean national teams dont bareshaft past 20 yards. 

Then i found video of one of the pro teams with national team members ( Yun MiJin and Dasomi Jung) shooting bare shafts out to 50 and 70 meters. 

It also showed them cutting an X10 from the rear. 

You can certainly shoot X10s with an offset. They just arent as forgiving for strays with the offset. The Korean team is slow to make changes once they find something that works and wins medals. 

Chris


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

I thought so too...about George's recommendation...but I'm going to posit something and see if you see any validity in it. I've tried the down the middle thing for a long time and it always ended up with a pretty stiff plunger. Part of this has to do with setting up the bow...if you put the sight down the middle, it really isn't down the middle since we don't use a peep sight.

It sounds so good to have everything down the middle, but then you end up with a plunger that is as stiff as a rock...and the forgiveness factor just drops off the face of the earth. At least, it seemed to, for me. Less clicks to move the arrow with a heavy spring. Offset it a little bit...add some weight to the bow to get the column to load more...and get a softer plunger setting.

I've heard rumors that some charts are set a little stiff because when the kiddos start shooting its safer to have them shoot stiff arrows than weak. And a x10 down the middle needs less weight, but then it starts getting kinda goofy in the walk back with the sight down the middle.

Dunno. Just my observations.

Amazing video. I sincerely hope my questions don't do anything to negate how informative and helpful it is, Chris.

I just don't understand the "why" of barreled shafts.


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

chrstphr said:


> Hi, I made an in-depth, step by step video on how to setup and tune an Olympic Recurve bow including bare shaft tuning out to 50 meters.
> 
> some may fine it beneficial.
> 
> ...


I saw it this afternoon, well done, I highly recommend it. Thanks for sharing
Nick


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

Your advice on how to find a riser's plane is wonderful. Much better than any other explanation I've ever seen. Thank you.

Anyway, I'm going to sign off on the "why" question on this thread because your video is great and so helpful and I don't want to detract from it. 

Thank you.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

DarkLightStar said:


> I thought so too...about George's recommendation...but I'm going to posit something and see if you see any validity in it. I've tried the down the middle thing for a long time and it always ended up with a pretty stiff plunger. Part of this has to do with setting up the bow...if you put the sight down the middle, it really isn't down the middle since we don't use a peep sight.
> 
> It sounds so good to have everything down the middle, but then you end up with a plunger that is as stiff as a rock...and the forgiveness factor just drops off the face of the earth. At least, it seemed to, for me. Less clicks to move the arrow with a heavy spring. Offset it a little bit...add some weight to the bow to get the column to load more...and get a softer plunger setting.
> 
> ...


I did not take your questions as anything negative. I took it as legitimate questions. 

There is not just one way to tune a bow. There are several ways. I just gave an in depth class on the method i use. I certainly didnt invent it nor is it mine. Archers have been tuning bows for as long as you could tune them. Certainly predating anything i could ever add. 

I just give the reasoning and logic behind my method. I found it works great for me, is fairly quick and easy. And it will tell you early on if arrows will work or not with your bow poundage. 

I had noticed there was not many tuning videos aimed at the beginner or really giving a step by step explanation. 

Chris


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

Chris, I've been a disciple of yours for years.  Your advice has always been extremely helpful and I'm grateful. 

I just want to share an idea back: If you have some free time try setting up a barreled shaft 3/4 tip outside and see if it is a forgiving setup...with the sight over the arrow. This is key...sight outside of string. Because when you get that sight picture (I use the side of the riser, some are more comfortable with edge of aperature...or wherever...) you are pointing the bow off-center. 

I started trying it. You have to use more weight but you can get a softer plunger doing the offset.


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## ArchAnon (Feb 27, 2018)

Thank you for making and posting this.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

I’m going to share this with my club mates. This is a fantastic tutorial, especially if you don’t have your own method. 

Appreciate it Chris! It’s hard work to make a video like this that doesn’t drag on. This is really short for a full tutorial, and easy to watch.

[emoji106][emoji106]
Greg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bobbinbette (May 14, 2016)

This may be a stupid question, but you emphasized that the aperture should be over the arrow for tuning. Why is this so important? I ask because I've known archers who have ultimately have their aperture far to the left or right of the arrow. More so than windage adjustments will allow.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Great video and timing, Katrin came back from a week a Beiter center in Germany with a box of tuning goodies for the club, I put this link on the club's website, it will be a great help to the students.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

bobbinbette said:


> This may be a stupid question, but you emphasized that the aperture should be over the arrow for tuning. Why is this so important? I ask because I've known archers who have ultimately have their aperture far to the left or right of the arrow. More so than windage adjustments will allow.


I guess you should aim where you arrow is pointing. I would not want to shoot and i am aiming at one spot, and the arrow is pointing far away left or right. I dont think that would be very consistent. Not would i be comfortable shooting that way. I meed my arrow in line with my sight. 

But i am not surprised that many archers have a terrible tune with their bow. Its part of why i made the video.

Chris


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## Kragg (Feb 26, 2018)

Thanks for taking the time to make this. As a new guy to barebow and ILF it was easy to understand and unlike a lot of YouTube videos clear and on point with no wasted time.


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## buzzycos (Mar 31, 2016)

Chris, at the beginning you talk about which plunger hole to use. Does the same rule apply for barebow?

thx,

Evan


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

buzzycos said:


> Chris, at the beginning you talk about which plunger hole to use. Does the same rule apply for barebow?
> 
> thx,
> 
> Evan


I dont know much about barebow and the unique requirements and issues associated with string walking etc.

But i dont see why not. Any riser can be a barebow riser, and they all come with 2 plunger holes. 


Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

DarkLightStar said:


> Chris, I've been a disciple of yours for years.  Your advice has always been extremely helpful and I'm grateful.
> 
> I just want to share an idea back: If you have some free time try setting up a barreled shaft 3/4 tip outside and see if it is a forgiving setup...with the sight over the arrow. This is key...sight outside of string. Because when you get that sight picture (I use the side of the riser, some are more comfortable with edge of aperature...or wherever...) you are pointing the bow off-center.
> 
> I started trying it. You have to use more weight but you can get a softer plunger doing the offset.


I have tried it before. My strays were worse in the wind due to the offfset and the arrow correcting more than when centered. My release likes a more centered arrow.


Chris


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## Kragg (Feb 26, 2018)

Chris,

As a longdraw archer (31.5") I was wondering, do you ever use the tiller bolts to adjust the limbs for draw length? 

I recently re-tuned with bolts turned out 3/4 turn out vs 4 (Gillo g2 with Tradtech rc Carbon limbs) and even though the OTF weight was only increased by 2 lbs I found myself unable to get into full alignment and my scores dropped by ten points over a twenty round 3D course. It sure felt like I hit the stacking point on those limbs at that limb bolt setting, but being a newb I'm not sure if that's an accurate assessment.


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## ForeverNewbie (Feb 21, 2018)

Very informative, thank you.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Kragg said:


> Chris,
> 
> As a longdraw archer (31.5") I was wondering, do you ever use the tiller bolts to adjust the limbs for draw length?
> 
> I recently re-tuned with bolts turned out 3/4 turn out vs 4 (Gillo g2 with Tradtech rc Carbon limbs) and even though the OTF weight was only increased by 2 lbs I found myself unable to get into full alignment and my scores dropped by ten points over a twenty round 3D course. It sure felt like I hit the stacking point on those limbs at that limb bolt setting, but being a newb I'm not sure if that's an accurate assessment.


Regardless of bow tune, you need to be able to handle the weight you are shooting throughout a tournament. Lower the poundage to a weight you can handle, even if it ruins the tune and makes the arrows stiff.

I have never lowered the tiller bolts for draw length, but i have for poundage so the archer could handle the draw weight. 


Chris


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

chrstphr said:


> Hi, I made an in-depth, step by step video on how to setup and tune an Olympic Recurve bow including bare shaft tuning out to 50 meters.
> 
> some may fine it beneficial.
> 
> ...


Great video, Chris. Top notch!!! I passed it on to my JOAD club member and other students to watch and review.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Here is part 2 of the video. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcQH49IOnUk

Chris


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Havent had the chance to watch the whole thing as I just got off work and it's 12am here but so far I find it to be really informative. Excellent video Chris. 

I have been toying with the idea of making Youtube channel for everything Olympic archery. I feel Youtube has a massive void for a channel that really goes in depth about anything. Still thinking it out and trying to get a good camera. I like that you are helping to fill that void too.


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## luckman88 (Nov 11, 2017)

Again, Chris. Thank you for taking the time to post this well-made and informative video.


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## Kragg (Feb 26, 2018)

chrstphr said:


> Regardless of bow tune, you need to be able to handle the weight you are shooting throughout a tournament. Lower the poundage to a weight you can handle, even if it ruins the tune and makes the arrows stiff.
> 
> I have never lowered the tiller bolts for draw length, but i have for poundage so the archer could handle the draw weight.
> 
> ...


Retuned to previous poundage and my last practice round went well. We'll see how it goes at a local shoot today, thanks.


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## eman57e (Jan 21, 2016)

Excellent. Very comprehensive. Thanks for posting....


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## TheArdentArcher (Jun 11, 2017)

As someone just scraping the surface of bare shaft tuning, this is very helpful. Now if only I could get my bare shafts to group. It seems that no matter what I try, my bare shafts are always about a foot right of my fletched group. I find that I need a really weak plunger to get my fletched arrows to shoot in the center, but a really stiff plunger to get my bare shafts in the center. But of course, with a stiff plunger my fletched shafts are not even hitting the target at 20 yards.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

_dani_lewis_ said:


> As someone just scraping the surface of bare shaft tuning, this is very helpful. Now if only I could get my bare shafts to group. It seems that no matter what I try, my bare shafts are always about a foot right of my fletched group. I find that I need a really weak plunger to get my fletched arrows to shoot in the center, but a really stiff plunger to get my bare shafts in the center. But of course, with a stiff plunger my fletched shafts are not even hitting the target at 20 yards.


i think your arrows are two to three spines too weak. If you are right handed archer in your profile photo. 


Chris


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## mhertwig (Mar 19, 2011)

thank you for making these videos. this helps a lot


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## vlesiv (Oct 20, 2013)

Hi, Chris. Thanks for the videos! 

How important is to have the stabilizers aligned with the bow plane? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

vlesiv said:


> Hi, Chris. Thanks for the videos!
> 
> How important is to have the stabilizers aligned with the bow plane?
> 
> ...


it helps with the bow reaction after the shot. if the stabs are off center, it will throw the bow off center. Past that, most archers probably have the stabs off to one side or another and dont notice. 

I prefer to have them line up exactly, because then it is easy to align the bow plane with any new limbs. You have the stabs as a quick reference point. If they are offset from the plane, you must finely measure each time you retune or get new limbs etc. 

And the bow reaction and shot is just so much nicer when it is all in alignment. 


Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

i find it interesting that i found a PDF made by Denise Parker back in the 90s describing how to get a bow on plane using the Hoyt Avalon. She calls it "true center" which is as good a name as "on plane". 

http://www.arrowstar.be/downloads/Avalon_Tuning.pdf



Chris


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## ForeverNewbie (Feb 21, 2018)

Thank you for the second video, mr. Hill.

I found the second video pointed out one of the most important aspect of tuning that is missing in most of tuning guides.
The archer can only tune the bow when he is shooting good on that particular day, and the tuning process will last weeks.


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

Thank you for this, Chris. It's very helpful and a fantastic resource.


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## 74f100 (Sep 17, 2017)

I made a bunch of changes all at once (limbs and arrows). Haven't been happy with my tunes at all. I tried to take a short cut, and didn't lock my plunger. Your vids pointed out the errors I made. I've been trying to set centershot by eye (yeah, like I can really see the arrow tip from behind the string at my age).....I paid for it with a horrible tune. Thanks so much for taking the time to do these vids. I know it takes a lot of time, but it really is super helpful. 

Jim


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## Timrc (May 14, 2015)

chrstphr said:


> One important detail that got edited out somehow
> 
> when i switch from stiff plunger to regular plunger,
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris for the excellent videos, it has definitely cleared up a few things and I have recommended other archers to watch them!

If I could just ask the following:

So once you have switched to the regular plunger and adjusted your sight above the arrow (as detailed above), the sight stays here and shouldn’t move?

I then need to see where the natural position of the string picture (string blur) lies, with regards to the sight in this position and my regular anchor.

What I should not be doing, is adjusting my sight to line up the string picture along the inner edge of the sight aperture, if it doesn’t naturally lie there?

Is this correct?

I believe I have been misinterpreting what I have heard and read about string picture and been forcing an incorrect sight position.

Many thanks for all your insightful archery knowledge.

Tim


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Timrc said:


> Thanks Chris for the excellent videos, it has definitely cleared up a few things and I have recommended other archers to watch them!
> 
> If I could just ask the following:
> 
> ...


Hi Tim, Once you switch to regular plunger, you center sight over arrow and shoot. Regardless of dead center arrow or offset arrow. You use plunger spring to center the arrows on target. Not the sight. 

Once you have the arrows falling in the middle at first distance, you then move to your second distance. See if arrows still fall in the middle. If not, then adjust center shot slightly to bring in line. 

Lastly, once you are centered at your distances you will shoot ( 70,50,30 or 60,50,20 etc), then you start micro tuning. You adjust the plunger slightly stronger or weaker to see if the group tightens up. Sometimes your group will get tighter, but move to the left slighly. So you then move your centershot slightly and move sight so the aperture is over your arrow. Sometimes you will find that weakening the plunger slightly will tighten the groups but move your group center to the right. Then adjust centershot slightly and move sight accordingly. So i may minutely move my sight left or right to counter the plunger grouping and the centershot movement, but for all purposes, my sight is over my arrow. Something is wrong with your tune, if the aperture is not over your sight. It may not be exactly centered over the arrow, but it should be over the arrow. Otherwise, i would say you do not have a tune. The bow is not throwing the arrow off in the same linear line as the aperture which is what you want. 

None of this should affect string blur. Your string blur should be the same since you are anchoring in the same place. It shouldnt move based on where the aperture is. It should move based on your anchor and alignment. If i adjust windage left or right with my sight aperture, my string blur should still be where it is. And i dont move my head to put the string blur somewhere. String blur will be where it should be based on your anchor and alignment. Just make sure its always in the same place and your shooting should be consistent. 

If for some reason the string blur is in the way of the sight aperture, i would change the anchor position or my head angle to target to get the string off the center of the aperture. This shouldnt happen normally though as your anchor should be to the side of the string and sight. 

I hope this clears up your situation. 

Chris


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## Timrc (May 14, 2015)

chrstphr said:


> Hi Tim, Once you switch to regular plunger, you center sight over arrow and shoot. Regardless of dead center arrow or offset arrow. You use plunger spring to center the arrows on target. Not the sight.
> 
> Once you have the arrows falling in the middle at first distance, you then move to your second distance. See if arrows still fall in the middle. If not, then adjust center shot slightly to bring in line.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris....this cleared it all up perfectly!


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## JByers (Jul 18, 2007)

Very informative. Thank you - indeed a good reference for any recurve shooter.


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## yegon (Aug 15, 2017)

thank you for the video

I am trying out Victory VAP arrows and testing with the stiff plunger I cant seem to get a weak reading. I am shooting 31OTF and went through spines from 600 to 800 with 110gn points, full length and they all show stiff (bareshaft at least a foot to the left of the fletched at 40 meters). I am shooting barebow but I guess the arrow stiffness part should be universal right?

I tried the 800s with a normal plunger and with a very soft setting (beiter - 95 on the weakest spring) they seem to group together and fly straight - but my limbs are maxxed out and I would prefer a touch lighter point maybe. I ordered the 900s but this seems crazy to me for a 31 pound draw weight. Could I be doing something wrong?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

yegon said:


> thank you for the video
> 
> I am trying out Victory VAP arrows and testing with the stiff plunger I cant seem to get a weak reading. I am shooting 31OTF and went through spines from 600 to 800 with 110gn points, full length and they all show stiff (bareshaft at least a foot to the left of the fletched at 40 meters). I am shooting barebow but I guess the arrow stiffness part should be universal right?
> 
> I tried the 800s with a normal plunger and with a very soft setting (beiter - 95 on the weakest spring) they seem to group together and fly straight - but my limbs are maxxed out and I would prefer a touch lighter point maybe. I ordered the 900s but this seems crazy to me for a 31 pound draw weight. Could I be doing something wrong?



as a general guide....

1000 spine for Victory Vaps at 30 lbs at 30 inch draw 
900 spine for Victory Vaps at 31lbs and 30 inch draw
800 spine would be 32 lbs at 30 inch draw

I would expect you to be in the 900 to 1000 spine. 


Chris


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## yegon (Aug 15, 2017)

Thank you. I was worried because their chart says i should be using 600 spine. Fortunately a shop here sells singles so I was able to test this before buying the full set. I should have the 900s in a couple of days hopefully those will fit.

thanks again.


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