# Confidence



## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Great post. 

One of the biggest boosts of confidence for me was when I realized most any well tuned setup is capable of outshooting me. When you know, that you know, that you know that your bow is shooting to the precise point that it's pointed, then there is only one thing left. You. At that point you're focus moves from "what weight's do I have on the ends of the rods?" and are my angles on the rods right?" and "how is my arrow flight, is my rest right?" to what am *I* doing to improve this process. 

When you reach the point above never will another equipment excuse come out of your mouth, ever. THEN you can start studying every little nuance of everything related to your shot. When you do that you'll make improvements in areas that you never really realized were challenging you. Just for the record, I have two of those areas that I continue to work on, breathing precisely the same every single time, and holding/positioning my hand precisely the same on/in the release process every singe time. When you start working on those very minor nuances *knowing* that everything else is taken care of (grip, stance, alignment, posture, face contact, etc, etc,) then your confidence soars! 

The matter of positive self talk comes into play as well, I'm a disciple of that way of thinking. It's another matter all together, but you sure can't shoot well if you're constantly telling yourself (even in subtle ways) how bad you really suck.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

For me right now I am seeing another level of confidence starting to develop in me because this winter my grouping shrunk, sure I got lucky and in the past I shot many 60x rounds and vegas 300's with a variety of 20 something x counts but my overall grouping was some shots inside the ring and some touching and some on the outside edge barely touching. Now my shots are mostly 1/8 inch inside the ring basically almost dead center and when I have a poor shot execution the arrow is touching the line on the inside.

When I first started shooting indoor I couldn't feel a difference between a good and poor shot, I just look at where the arrow had hit the target. But as the years have passed I now focus on execution and when a shot is executed properly I am guaranteed a inside out x no questions asked and when something is wrong I touch the line a little.

4 years ago I stopped touching the blue and since then it is not a question of weather I am going to hit the white and it became how many arrows can I touch the x, this winter it is all about being inside out and not touching the x and I am hopint that the white area around the outside of the x becomes just like the blue area. Something that I just don't touch anymore.

To become confident the first thing that must happen is that you set a goal that is something that you haven't been able to do and then do the things that allow you to reach that goal. Then each time you reach that goal make a new one, this is where a natural progression starts to form and it allows you climb up the ladder. You can't just say I want to be a 60x guy, you must set a goal such as shooting 5 x's in a row and when you can do that you move on to 10x's and before you know it you can rattle off 30x's in a row. In my progression I am to the point where I really don't see the reason to miss x's anymore, I am not to that level yet but I can shoot hundreds in a row and have done that many times so why not make the goal to just stay inside the x. Then the question becomes do I have the freaking guts to make that kind of goal for myself?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Confidence for me is different in indoor than in 3d, one thing that drives my buddy Blake nuts is that I have a ability to shoot 12's or 10's even when I misjudge a target by 3 or 4 yards and I do so on a regular basis. Most of the time it is a 10 but I really think that it is something about the way I make decisions to shoot the shot that allows me to be confident in every little decision that I make so even though I made a poor yardage judgment all of the other little decisions are so solid they make up for that one poor one and I end up scoring well. 

For me anytime I have been to lazy to address any area and I leave it open to fail that area will end up biting you in the butt and you will fail, so for me by tackling every issue in my training and becoming proficient at all of them allows me to go around a course and enjoy my shooting instead of being in a total damage control mode.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Lazarus said:


> Great post.
> 
> The matter of positive self talk comes into play as well, I'm a disciple of that way of thinking. It's another matter all together, but you sure can't shoot well if you're constantly telling yourself (even in subtle ways) how bad you really suck.


I don’t think it is different. The ability to blow off a bad shot and finish strong is critical to winning those small battles. Gotta believe you can do it. I’ve been making the transition from 299 to 300 Vegas games and it has been coming with Xs. My X count increased significantly before I started getting more 300 games than 299s. Heck, sometimes I still have to drop a ten just because I seem to have “one arrow syndrome”. I’ve done it a couple times the last two weeks. Both games I shot 27 Xs with a 299. It happens. Not letting it mess with your head is the only way to beat it.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Confidence is a funny thing, I noticed for the last couple years of shooting scoring rounds in league nights and at the iowa pro am that I shot scared from the beginning of a scoring round until I missed a x and once I missed a x then I was a different shooter mentally and basically cleared the rest of the round without missing. I have been using this experience as much as possible to learn how to shoot with that feeling of not being scared right from the start. What I am learning about myself is that flipping a switch from warming up mode to competitive mode is a bad thing, I shoot way better when there is no difference between the way I feel regardless weather I am competing or just training. By learning these things has given me more confidence that I can walk into a new venue and set up my stuff in a lane and know how I am going to feel instead of worrying about how I am going to handle things.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Padgett said:


> Confidence is a funny thing, I noticed for the last couple years of shooting scoring rounds in league nights and at the iowa pro am that I shot scared from the beginning of a scoring round until I missed a x and once I missed a x then I was a different shooter mentally and basically cleared the rest of the round without missing. I have been using this experience as much as possible to learn how to shoot with that feeling of not being scared right from the start. What I am learning about myself is that flipping a switch from warming up mode to competitive mode is a bad thing, I shoot way better when there is no difference between the way I feel regardless weather I am competing or just training. By learning these things has given me more confidence that I can walk into a new venue and set up my stuff in a lane and know how I am going to feel instead of worrying about how I am going to handle things.


Great post padgett, I see many similarities between your post and my progress as a shooter. I find as time (lots of it) goes on I am getting better along with 10 and X count when I practice correctly. I would also add for me anyway, the mental game is also so crucial to being able to preform during actual competition be it a league or Vegas. I don't care how many X's you can shoot during a practice round, things change when your standing on the line competing with archers on both sides of you, quivers with arrows sticking you in the back, being a right handed shooter shooting next to a lefty and all the lone practice you've done goes out the window if your not tough mentally. One shot at at time and even though everybody knows in their head what their running score is, you've got to just put 100% concentration on your next arrow and ignore what has happened and is happening around you. Confidence might grow in a few short weeks but scores usually take their time coming around and many archers may never shoot a 300 30 X on a Vegas round, in my opinion that's just how it is.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

ILOVE3D said:


> Great post padgett, I see many similarities between your post and my progress as a shooter. I find as time (lots of it) goes on I am getting better along with 10 and X count when I practice correctly. I would also add for me anyway, the mental game is also so crucial to being able to preform during actual competition be it a league or Vegas. I don't care how many X's you can shoot during a practice round, things change when your standing on the line competing with archers on both sides of you, quivers with arrows sticking you in the back, being a right handed shooter shooting next to a lefty and all the lone practice you've done goes out the window if your not tough mentally. One shot at at time and even though everybody knows in their head what their running score is, you've got to just put 100% concentration on your next arrow and ignore what has happened and is happening around you. Confidence might grow in a few short weeks but scores usually take their time coming around and many archers may never shoot a 300 30 X on a Vegas round, in my opinion that's just how it is.


While this is true, I think most of us can remember when that 300 5-spot game was elusive. Then breaking the 50X mark. Then a Vegas 300, etc., etc. Personal benchmarks are the key to building confidence. I have to believe I will shoot 30x, and I will. Knowing why each missed X happened is the important part.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I was talking with a boy that I shot a league with last year and in that league I shot a 300 vegas round every time but one week when I had a misfire and shot the wall when drawing the bow. For some reason I am a better shooter when I shoot a vegas round than when I shoot a 5-spot round because I simply almost always shoot a 300 vegas when shooting alone or at a shoot. I have even shot a 300 vegas round at the iowa pro am when on the line with people. I think that the reason that I am better at the vegas face is a confidence thing where I have convinced myself that I am a 300 vegas guy but I am not a 60x guy yet. I can shoot 60x rounds but I don't really consider myself a 60x guy.

The power of confidence dictates how you feel when the target is a fresh one and when you are half way through a round and you have a clean round going and in the last end when you have a clean round. For me when shooting a vegas face all three of these phases are clean of doubt but when shooting a 5-spot there is doubt that creeps in at times and that is when my shot will freeze up.

I will say that this winter I am able to create holes in the middle of the spot and for me this is really helping my confidence because when I have a fresh face as soon as I punch a nice couple of shots into the target dead center then I can feel the rest of the arrows wanting to go into that hole and my confidence really rises. For that reason I have been repairing the early shots when I get my arrows and make sure that even though I hit the line on the first shot that i can punch a hole in the center on the next shot or two and create that nice hole that will suck my arrows inside as the round continues.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

I used to struggle with a new face, but now I prefer it. They don't have magnetic holes in them yet.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't have any vegas targets right now because I ran out but I have been putting up a fresh blue face and I shoot the top two and the middle for 30 minutes or so and then I move down and shoot the bottom two spots and the middle one. This gives me two times during the session to shoot fresh spots and what is funny is the feel that I have on the second half of the session when the middle spot is shot up but the bottom two spots are fresh. I have really enjoyed this little session and it really has been helping me enjoy my indoor training.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

cbrunson said:


> I used to struggle with a new face, but now I prefer it. They don't have magnetic holes in them yet.


That is spot on. I did the same. One thing that will change your outlook on that is when you really start staring a hole in the *precise* point on the target that you want to hit. Mine is the little "V" right where the x comes together. If it's not there, you can't see it, so how can you hit what you can't see. Keeping a fresh face up there always makes you think in terms of those early "tough" arrows too.

Dirty practice targets are the source of some really bad practice habits and sloppy shooting. Any more, if I can't see that little "v" I mentioned the target comes down. I was going to start a post about this one day but I was afraid someone might disagree with me so I didn't. :teeth:


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Lazarus, I would love to hear more about this subject. This is the first year that I am making holes in the targets, in the past I might accidentally make one but mostly my spots just looked like a shot gun blast. I am finding that my arrows just go into the hole weather or not they are centered or not and even when they are on the edge of a x I seem to be just fine but it is scary to be sticking arrow after arrow on the edge with no room to spare. That is why I have been repairing the early holes that are on the edge.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

If the first hole in the spot isn't close to center of the X, it often pulls the group to it. Thats fine if it's inside the ten.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

cbrunson said:


> If the first hole in the spot isn't close to center of the X, it often pulls the group to it. Thats fine if it's inside the ten.


cbrunson, I used to think that way too. Just say for instance the hole is developing to the left of the "x." What happens when you are on the left side of the hole when the hinge goes off? :teeth:

Padgett, I'll make a post about the practice face sometime soon. I've made up a special practice target that has *real* merit, (that's my opinion.) To this point only one person has seen it other than my boys. I want to share it...........but then I don't really want to let the cat out of the bag either. lol. I'll get it posted up sometime soon.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Cool, for me what I can't seem to wrap my mind around is that my blue dot is the same size as the x on a 5-spot target so when I am floating on the x I really can't see it so how is the hole that is behind my dot affecting the shot. I have a theory but would love to hear your thoughts first.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

I was listening to Alistair Whittingham this morning and he was talking about that exact thing Padgett. While the issue you bring up may be a minor one, I know you know it's addressing those minor issues that really elevate your game. To the point, he was talking about your mind automatically wants to hit the center of a target when you look at it. I'm pretty sure he's on track there. Ok, so, say you pull up on the target and your mind see's the hole developing, isn't it safe to say your mind is going to pull you to that hole? Even though you can't see it once your dot gets on it? 

That's not a statement, it's an honest question. My stance is; when your mind see's that black hole it's already honed in on it before you cover it up, making it tough to stay out of it even though you can't see it. Maybe a little zen mixed with psychology there, or maybe I'm just over thinking it.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Lazarus said:


> I was listening to Alistair Whittingham this morning and he was talking about that exact thing Padgett. While the issue you bring up may be a minor one, I know you know it's addressing those minor issues that really elevate your game. To the point, he was talking about your mind automatically wants to hit the center of a target when you look at it. I'm pretty sure he's on track there. Ok, so, say you pull up on the target and your mind see's the hole developing, isn't it safe to say your mind is going to pull you to that hole? Even though you can't see it once your dot gets on it?
> 
> That's not a statement, it's an honest question. My stance is; when your mind see's that black hole it's already honed in on it before you cover it up, making it tough to stay out of it even though you can't see it. Maybe a little zen mixed with psychology there, or maybe I'm just over thinking it.


So this is funny timing and admittedly a bit early to give definitive results, but I figured I'd share.

I've shot a big ring on my lens for over a year now. I had a habit of peeking behind the dot to get a glimpse of the X, as if it was trying to run away.  Since I shoot a ring, I see the holes and figured I was always sucked into the holes since I could see them (my ring circles the entire yellow). So Tuesday night I slapped on a big dot on a 4x lens (my ring is on 6x) and shot it at 12yds. It felt fantastic. It filled in the 10 ring perfectly, so it was covering up my hole in the X. 

12yds is a crummy test, so I took this to the club last night and tested it out at 20yds. The dot covered everything in the 9/10 except a tiny sliver of yellow. So I couldn't see my holes... However, this time around I was sucked into those holes much more than I can ever remember with the ring. The top spot in particular was terrible. I was burning the left edge of the 10 in a straight verticle line. I wish I took a pic. It was only 1 round, but I found it interesting that I was sucked into the holes even more after covering them up......


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Lazarus said:


> My stance is; when your mind see's that black hole it's already honed in on it before you cover it up, making it tough to stay out of it even though you can't see it. Maybe a little zen mixed with psychology there, or maybe I'm just over thinking it.


It has to be something like that. If the hole was always in the same spot, we could just click it over.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

cbrunson said:


> If the first hole in the spot isn't close to center of the X, it often pulls the group to it. *Thats fine if it's inside the ten*.


I used to be happy with all of my first 3 arrows even cutting the 10 line. Fast forward a year and until last week I felt the same as above but I think differently now. Practicing last week, target 1 first hole was a 10 just outside the x, target 2 was also a 10 but at 3 oclock and just cut the 10 line from the inside and target 3 was a good center x. As I continued to practice the holes just got bigger and before I knew it, I had shot a 9 at 6 oclock, then another 9 at 3 oclock and on it went until I finished with a 292. From then on, if first arrow isn't in the center I loosen pins on the paper and push the hole closed. I've yet to put all 3 first shots in the center x but it just tells me I need more perfect practice. I'm good with that


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

ILOVE3D said:


> I used to be happy with all of my first 3 arrows even cutting the 10 line. Fast forward a year and until last week I felt the same as above but I think differently now. Practicing last week, target 1 first hole was a 10 just outside the x, target 2 was also a 10 but at 3 oclock and just cut the 10 line from the inside and target 3 was a good center x. As I continued to practice the holes just got bigger and before I knew it, I had shot a 9 at 6 oclock, then another 9 at 3 oclock and on it went until I finished with a 292. From then on, if first arrow isn't in the center I loosen pins on the paper and push the hole closed. I've yet to put all 3 first shots in the center x but it just tells me I need more perfect practice. I'm good with that


I do pretty much the same. If it's inside the ten with a 2712, It's an X so I leave it. All line cutters get closed.


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## 60435 (Mar 20, 2012)

you got to have confidence in your shooting ability and equipment iv been on a 5 day run without missing an x to day i shot a perfect 450 round my new release shoe has added greatly to my confidence


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## Wichhart (Oct 2, 2014)

I don't care how many X's you can shoot during a practice round, things change when your standing on the line competing with archers on both sides of you, This is so true. Not just for me but for a lot of professional archers I would imagine. I shoot in the same club/shop range as Bridger Deaton. He has all kinds of faces hanging on the walls. Prob 95% of them being perfect 300 30x. And majority of them being as close to a single hole as u can get. But I watched him in lancaster for a bit on the internet whenever they showed him and it wasn't nearly as clean. Still very good shooting but not as clean as the ones hanging on the walls


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I first met Eric Griggs at the Nikon shoot in upstate NY around 2000-2001. I had some off and on communications with him for a while after that as he shot in our local 3d circuit for a while. I commented to him how good a shooter he was and he laughed, saying "There's a lot of good shooters out there". He went on to say it's when the money is on the line is when it matters... That has always stuck with me. I also know that you still have to be able to do it in practice first.


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

Padgett said:


> Cool, for me what I can't seem to wrap my mind around is that my blue dot is the same size as the x on a 5-spot target so when I am floating on the x I really can't see it so how is the hole that is behind my dot affecting the shot. I have a theory but would love to hear your thoughts first.


My thoughts on this are its very simple. If you shoot with both eyes open you see the holes no matter how big your dot is. That is how it works for me. 

When I shot BHFS that is when it is ultra important to get good holes going. 

Laugh if you want but if I had an arrow on the left side of the 10 I would purposely aim on the right side of the ten. Then the yellow in the middle would pull your eye o it instead of the holes, then as I got a hole in the middle I would repair the outlyers and rock on.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Wichhart said:


> I don't care how many X's you can shoot during a practice round, things change when your standing on the line competing with archers on both sides of you, This is so true. Not just for me but for a lot of professional archers I would imagine. I shoot in the same club/shop range as Bridger Deaton. He has all kinds of faces hanging on the walls. Prob 95% of them being perfect 300 30x. And majority of them being as close to a single hole as u can get. But I watched him in lancaster for a bit on the internet whenever they showed him and it wasn't nearly as clean. Still very good shooting but not as clean as the ones hanging on the walls




I like to think of the whole process, learning to be competitive, as a series of conquering small battles. I shoot with some notable pros regularly, and the topic has come up many times. Obviously when you are starting out, a 300 game seems unreachable. Setting achievement goals throughout the process is one way you can build on small successes to build confidence going forward. If you are averaging 290ish games, then set 295 as a short term goal. Keep bumping it up when you reach it. I remember thinking I would never get that elusive 300 game. Now I am encroaching 60x games. The same principle extends to competition vs practice. I know I am going to drop a little from my practice scores in competition, but my goal going into it is always to beat my previous competition score rather than my average practice score. Small battles.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Wichhart said:


> I don't care how many X's you can shoot during a practice round, things change when your standing on the line competing with archers on both sides of you, This is so true. Not just for me but for a lot of professional archers I would imagine. I shoot in the same club/shop range as Bridger Deaton. He has all kinds of faces hanging on the walls. Prob 95% of them being perfect 300 30x. And majority of them being as close to a single hole as u can get. But I watched him in lancaster for a bit on the internet whenever they showed him and it wasn't nearly as clean. Still very good shooting but not as clean as the ones hanging on the walls


I agree 100%, however I don't think we can be totally dismissive of the practice rounds. For me, I use them as confirmation that I CAN do it. I've seen myself do it many times (practice), so why not again now (competition)? It's a matter of holding it together and shooting the same shot during competition that got me that pretty target face in practice.

It goes back to Laz's comments about positive thinking...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Padgett said:


> Confidence for me is different in indoor than in 3d, one thing that drives my buddy Blake nuts is that I have a ability to shoot 12's or 10's even when I misjudge a target by 3 or 4 yards and I do so on a regular basis. Most of the time it is a 10 but I really think that it is something about the way I make decisions to shoot the shot that allows me to be confident in every little decision that I make so even though I made a poor yardage judgment all of the other little decisions are so solid they make up for that one poor one and I end up scoring well.
> 
> For me anytime I have been to lazy to address any area and I leave it open to fail that area will end up biting you in the butt and you will fail, so for me by tackling every issue in my training and becoming proficient at all of them allows me to go around a course and enjoy my shooting instead of being in a total damage control mode.


Confidence is different in 3D...When you "believe" then making a shot more often than not is a reality. We've got different yardage target to target, different 3D animal, different colors, can't see point zone in most instances, obstacles to get by or ignore, light varies. I use obstacles and different angles, both ground level and down hill (standing on the picnic table). It's practice for "yeah, I can do this." 
Snow pretty much gone, targets thawed (Rineharts do get hard). I was practicing from 25 and 30 yards. For whatever reason I saw the Rinehart turkey center sort of tucked back and a tad low. So I went back to 25 yards. If you can see it should be able to hit it. My last practice arrow was my "hot" arrow. It is the last of a dozen HTA's I bought...4 years ago...It is a bit lighter from much shooting and from whatever paint for the logo gone so it hits a tad higher, so allowance given. "Just relax and let it go in" and it did. A bit high of the center X ring, but I'll take it.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

What's funny about 3D confidence, is when you see guys missing at 10 yards. (I've done it too) You know you are going to be in the 35 yd ball park on your sight and even if you are off a few yards exact, it's still going to be close enough to drill the 11/12 ring, yet so many still miss by 1-1/2" to 2" just from being out of the comfort zone.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Don't know if it's confidence and surely not over confidence. It's that many people don't practice the short shot, forget the trajectory lift of the arrow on the rest to the height of the sight pin. For 20 yards the average distance from the top of the arrow to the center of 20 yard sight pin is about 3 3/8". This would miss low on a turkey 10 ring up close. 

Club and State sanctioned 3Ds can be something else. I've had targets not 7 yards distance and the 10/12 ring just look like near new 
I have sight settings "shot in" down to 5 yards. The closest I've shot a 3D target was 3 yards. Caterpillar Archery club, gone these many years, East Peoria, Illinois. Their Tough Man 3D right before deer season. Climbing out of a 1/8 mile deep gulley, using a 1" hay rope to help pull you up. Halfway up was a Rinehart skunk right in your face, 3 yards. Going down the gulley was the longest/shortest shot. 75 yards to a walking McKenzie bear, but if you shot it for more than 25 yards you'd shoot over. That steep of a down hill shot.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

So I go to a local shoot this morning and my practice rounds went quite well. My first 2 ends did not go as planned as I only managed 3X 25 on each. It only got worst after this, arrows were just not grouping and 3X ends were all I could manage. Not a very good confidence booster at all. Then in the 7th end I made what I thought was a good shot on my first arrow and it went to the right about 4"... well into the 4 ring. Next 2 arrows went in about the same place. Something was definitely wrong and as I checked the bow I noticed right away that my QAD's launcher was missing a mounting screw and was flopping all over the place. As luck would have it I found the missing screw and was able to finish the shoot but my day was shot. Big disappointment but at least I have an excuse 

Now I can't wait to shoot tomorrow as my confidence needs reassurance. It's very fragile at this point even though I've been shooting quite well as of late.


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