# How many use sight tapes at all?



## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I've found myself skipping sight tapes entirely as of late.. What say the rest of you; sight tape or click and count?


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

JawsDad said:


> I've found myself skipping sight tapes entirely as of late.. What say the rest of you; sight tape or click and count?


I use the screen on my iPod Touch :wink: with a backup marks 'CARD' in my quiver. 

The most common mistake I've made AND see others making in regards to setting their sights is not forgetting to make the change, its making the change BUT setting it wrong. With the most common mistake being setting 5 marks off. 

So, for me, the purpose of a sight tape is to double check what you set on your scale.


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

I use a site tape.....what a royal PITA having to count click and loop at a dern card/screen everytime you want to set your site......I can see the advantages for when you change something or are just getting new marks, but when you have your setup established and are just shooting it's pure crazy to have to look at a screen/card then click.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

That's probably the issue with me.. Historically I've always been changing something.. :embara:


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

I get good marks and print out a card with all the yardages with their settings.

I don't do anything electronic with that during a shoot. Don't have to worry about a sight tape moving or getting wet. I can "see" my trajectory on the sight card. I can adjust if my marks are somehow off. I can just write the adjustment on it. Say if it is yardage setting plus 6 clicks, I will write yardage plus 6 clicks at the top.

I will never use a sight tape. I will never do the palm or phone thing.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

JawsDad said:


> That's probably the issue with me.. Historically I've always been changing something.. :embara:




Yeah your just saving forests by not using sight tapes. :set1_rolf2:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

BOWGOD said:


> Yeah your just saving forests by not using sight tapes. :set1_rolf2:


Possibly.. but I do put all my marks on the side of a styrofoam cup before each round.. Not wanting to be seen as "going green" you know.. :wink:


And before you make another comment about changing things, I've been on the same bow for damn near 6 months now.. :faint:


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

JawsDad said:


> Possibly.. but I do put all my marks on the side of a styrofoam cup before each round.. Not wanting to be seen as "going green" you know.. :wink:
> 
> 
> And before you make another comment about changing things, I've been on the same bow for damn near 6 months now.. :faint:


I know, I kind of miss the old Ted:wink:
But I know exactly what you mean. I have been on the same bow for 5 years now. When you finally find that ONE it's hard to stray. Then when/if you do stray you just end up comparing everything else to that one bow, and the usually come up short.

Most who know me now wouldn't believe it, but I used to be worse than you when it came to bows. Between August 2004, and June 2005 I went through well over 20 different bows. I've bought a few different bows since then, but always end up back with the protec w/spirals


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

I have got and still use the first bow I ever bought.

I use my Con3 for field archery and it is six years old.  No reason to change.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I think I may have finally found that bow for me.. I've bought a couple of others to tinker with, but keep going back to my Vantage Elite. I suspect it will be with me for a while..


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Oh, I have bought other bows and they each have a specific use. I have 5.

I don't waste money by buying and selling bows, only to keep buying the same model over and over. I can't believe how many people do this. Why didn't they just keep the first one they bought?

I've got what I need and I knew what I wanted before I bought them as I did research. It would be silly of me to just buy bows and resell them, eventually buying the same one 4 or 5 times.

I don't get why so many do this.

I have never sold a bow. I still got all 5 and use all 5. I don't need anymore.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

The Swami said:


> Oh, I have bought other bows and they each have a specific use. I have 5.
> 
> I don't waste money by buying and selling bows, only to keep buying the same model over and over. I can't believe how many people do this. Why didn't they just keep the first one they bought?
> 
> ...


I buy other bows all the time, only thing is they are all the exact same bow, just different colors lol.

I have been guilty of buying different bows than the one I shoot, but I do not sell the protec when I do so. On occasion someone will release a bow that looks like it might be comparable to what I shoot. In those cases curiosity can get me. But I do not buy them new that's for sure. I'll buy used that way in 3 weeks when I decide it just doesn't stand up with the protec I can get my money back out of it.

The only bows I have bought since 2005 that I have kept have all been the same bow. The only changes were color, and draw weight. The bow I shoot is no longer in production, and I have such a short draw that I don't run into used models very often. But when I do I try to buy them if anything for back up bows.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I haven't used a tape since about 2003 or so....until this year 

Dag on CBE without a scale....I hate tapes. But right now that's what I am using. :doh:


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

My tape is a #2 Pencil,shoot the yardage and mark it down on a card.Good practice and gets me out 2 or 3 times a week to shoot and check.


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## Chad T. (Jan 3, 2006)

ok being new to outdoors does anyone want to explaine the counting clicks, i thought you need to have a tape


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

You can use the scale that is on the side of the sight for marks (see the example pic of a Sure-Loc below). They are numbered starting at 0 and increment by 1 through a value depending on the size of your sight. It depends on the make of your sight on how many clicks make up a full sight mark. Many sights have a 20 click value so the distance from 1 to 2 on the sight scale is 20 clicks.

Once you get the values correct you can use programs like Archers Mark, AP, OT2 to generate site tapes or cards. Those cards will give you a number such as 20+5 for an XX yard shot. You would move your sight to the 20 line and then give it 5 extra clicks.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i shoot in my even marks, mathmagix the odd marks and compare to what AAPalm comes up with. i'm usually within a half yard on the worst guesses. it's about knowing your equipment's quirks:thumb:.

all my marks are written on a card, with a back-up card in smaller size and AAPalm at the very last resort backup. AAPalm is great when you make a change on the fly and have to adjust your marks. the better part with a card is that it wont run out of batteries at the worst moment in time.


i'm like swim-eye....still have the same bow i bought in 04. no reason to change. i have the parts to build up a shorter ATA version of the bow i shoot now and may work on making a 3rd in another ATA.

blueglide's got the right idea....shooting em in is practice.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

JawsDad said:


> You can use the scale that is on the side of the sight for marks (see the example pic of a Sure-Loc below). They are numbered starting at 0 and increment by 1 through a value depending on the size of your sight. It depends on the make of your sight on how many clicks make up a full sight mark. Many sights have a 20 click value so the distance from 1 to 2 on the sight scale is 20 clicks.
> 
> Once you get the values correct you can use programs like Archers Mark, AP, OT2 to generate site tapes or cards. Those cards will give you a number such as 20+5 for an XX yard shot. You would move your sight to the 20 line and then give it 5 extra clicks.


Good answer and illustration JD, but something I've never understood. Why would someone "count clicks"? Why not just set the pointer on 20.25?


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Good answer and illustration JD, but something I've never understood. Why would someone "count clicks"? Why not just set the pointer on 20.25?


I guess some people are accurate enough that it makes a difference when setting a sight at 20.25 (or 20+5 on 20 click) versus 20.3, 20.2 or another close approximation of the scale setting. For me, not so much, I could probably get away with whole numbers and not notice much difference.. :aww:


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

same idea here.....

my scale is metric with a 20click knob......some of the clicks get lost in translation. it's easier to set it for the whole mark and then adjust to the partial, like 53.25 or 48.75. it's how it's written on my card too.


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## Chad T. (Jan 3, 2006)

Jaws Dad- thank you,i just bought OT2 and was wondering what that part of the screen was telling me. i understand completly now


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## sl954 (Oct 7, 2005)

Never have had a tape. Always use a marks card


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

JawsDad said:


> I guess some people are accurate enough that it makes a difference when setting a sight at 20.25 (or 20+5 on 20 click) versus 20.3, 20.2 or another close approximation of the scale setting. For me, not so much, I could probably get away with whole numbers and not notice much difference.. :aww:


On a 20 click per turn, 20+5 would be the exact same position as 20.25 & 20.95 would be the same as 20+19. I've just never understood why you would count clicks vs. just setting the dial - it results in the same position.



Chad T. said:


> Jaws Dad- thank you,i just bought OT2 and was wondering what that part of the screen was telling me. i understand completly now


With OT2 you can print/display your marks either way.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Chad T. said:


> Jaws Dad- thank you,i just bought OT2 and was wondering what that part of the screen was telling me. i understand completly now


Play around with the settings and then test them before you commit to using them for real.. **Unfortunately I've not had OT2 come out that accurate for me so far. I'm sure it's some value that I'm not getting into the program. I have had very good results with the AM output though. At least in the distances between my high and low. I've not shot anything under 20 yards yet so I'm not sure how well the short marks calculated.

** - being a programmer myself, I know to blame the user and data entry whenever possible. :tongue:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> On a 20 click per turn, 20+5 would be the exact same position as 20.25 & 20.95 would be the same as 20+19. I've just never understood why you would count clicks vs. just setting the dial - it results in the same position.
> 
> 
> 
> With OT2 you can print/display your marks either way.



Without counting the clicks, I'm not sure how you would know you were at .25 or .95 other than by approximating.. 

Like I said though, for me, I'm not sure it's that important. Anywhere between 20 and 21 is probably just about as good as my result would be anyway. :wink:


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Done it Both Ways*

Currently I prefer using a sight tape for yardages over 15 yards and the numbers for yardages less than 15 yards. I carry a card with the numbers 
printed out and check one against the other every time I set the sight to prevent mistakes. I also look at the ground for the yardage marker before 
setting my sight. All of this and I still screw up at least once every other tournament. LOL.
Jbird


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

JawsDad said:


> Without counting the clicks, I'm not sure how you would know you were at .25 or .95 other than by approximating..
> 
> Like I said though, for me, I'm not sure it's that important. Anywhere between 20 and 21 is probably just about as good as my result would be anyway. :wink:


JD, look at the pix you posted. There's a dial on the top adjustment knob that has graduations from 0-9. There is a "click" at each of these graduations plus there is a click between each one. On the archer side of the vertical bar on the Sureloc there is a grove that lines up with these graduations and each between click. So just like counting clicks, you set the pin on the side at 20, but instead of counting clicks, you just look at the top dial and advance it so that the grove is between the 2 & 3 - thus 20.25

It's had to tell from the angle of the pix shown, but that sight is set at either 30.70 or 30.75,


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> JD, look at the pix you posted. There's a dial on the top adjustment knob that has graduations from 0-9. There is a "click" at each of these graduations plus there is a click between each one. On the archer side of the vertical bar on the Sureloc there is a grove that lines up with these graduations and each between click. So just like counting clicks, you set the pin on the side at 20, but instead of counting clicks, you just look at the top dial and advance it so that the grove is between the 2 & 3 - thus 20.25
> 
> It's had to tell from the angle of the pix shown, but that sight is set at either 30.70 or 30.75,


You're right.. But, I'm not using that sight, that was just for reference. I'm not sure the one I'm using has that on it, might have been lost along the way somehwere..


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## archerpap (Apr 24, 2006)

I justr get marks, and print out a card, and laminate it. No trying to line up a sight tape on the sight(which for me never lines up). Get the distance, read the card, set the sight, double check the card, double check the sight, and let 'um rip!!


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## RchurE (Mar 20, 2007)

pragmatic_lee said:


> JD, look at the pix you posted. There's a dial on the top adjustment knob that has graduations from 0-9. There is a "click" at each of these graduations plus there is a click between each one. On the archer side of the vertical bar on the Sureloc there is a grove that lines up with these graduations and each between click. So just like counting clicks, you set the pin on the side at 20, but instead of counting clicks, you just look at the top dial and advance it so that the grove is between the 2 & 3 - thus 20.25
> 
> It's had to tell from the angle of the pix shown, but that sight is set at either 30.70 or 30.75,


Lee, the reason most count clicks instead of doing what you're talking about is because the first time you use the coarse adjustment on a sight that has that feature then the knob on top is no longer "zeroed". And, with variations in scales and stuff I doubt you'll find a sight that will be on zero on each mark all the way through the scale even if you don't use the coarse adjustment. Ever notice when you use the coarse adjustment that sometimes you'll turn the knob 1/4 turn or so and then see the needle jump a little? That's the windage block seating back down in the drive screw. That's what gets the knob off "zero". The CBE with clicks might allow you to rely on zero since it has no coarse adjustment at all. You could probably zero the knob once and then do it the way you're talking about. You just don't have any coarse adjustment. 

So, for us click counters, you center the needle on the closest mark and then count down or up from there. 

I'm not anti-sight tape though, I just prefer the click counting. You can fine tune SOOOOO much easier I think. Like if you have one range of marks that just don't hit for like a 10 yard span or something you can manually sight those and just make the changes on your card. If your tape has a weird spot in it like that then you're just stuck or you keep tweaking and making new tapes till one is spot on. The example I use was a few years ago I tried giving tapes a shot for a while. I had some arrows that I fletched up with the small quick spins. Those arrows grouped AWESOME but they obviously slowed down at the longer distances. I was using OT2 and tried adjusting the drag compensation and everything and just never could get a tape that would stay accurate at the longer distances. They would be dead on to 50 or 60 but then when the arrow started to lose steam the tape would be off. 

So I'll stick with the click counting if I can, personally.


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

When I zero out my sight, everytime the knob is on zero, that pointer is on a line all through the scale. If it isn't dead on, the naked eye can't see it or I would just rezero the sight over and over until it does. I am anal that way. 

I never use a sight tape and I NEVER move my pointer. Never have a reason to.

I am not sure what a coarse adjustment is but if it means moving the pointer. I wouldn't do it. I find out how many yards I am off and figure out what that is on my sight card. If I am a yard off then I then dial the yardage for the shot and add the clicks for the distance I am off on top of that. Experience tells me if what I need to do with my settings to bring my point of impact to the center. I know how much my arrow will drop for every yard short at all yardages so if I am a yard low throughout, then I just set my sight a yard more. The number of clicks to add a yard varies depending on the distance and the sight card tells me this. It is way easy to adjust without moving pointers etc. You are never just 5 clicks off on every shot unless you shoot a limited amount of yardages. In field archery, 5 clicks off may work for some yardages but not all, there is a wide variation of yardages in field archery.

This is why I don't try to find out how many clicks I am off, but how far off am I in distance. If I know my marks are off by a certain distance, my sight card tells me all I need to know in order to adjust.



Those who use a sight card with the marks on it had better make sure they zero out the sight BEFORE they shoot their 2 marks to generate the card.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

archerpap said:


> I justr get marks, and print out a card, and laminate it. No trying to line up a sight tape on the sight(which for me never lines up). Get the distance, read the card, set the sight, double check the card, double check the sight, and let 'um rip!!


Me too, but... I also print out a tape.. eventually by the third or fourth shoot of the season, I'll remember to double check it on EVERY target to ensure I didn't read my scale wrong when I used my marks.. but the marks is what I set off of (just find myself setting it off by like 5 on occasion (yes, 5 turns.. :mg )


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

The Swami said:


> *When I zero out my sight, everytime the knob is on zero, that pointer is on a line all through the scale*. If it isn't dead on, the naked eye can't see it or I would just rezero the sight over and over until it does. I am anal that way.
> 
> I never use a sight tape and I NEVER move my pointer. Never have a reason to.
> 
> Those who use a sight card with the marks on it had better make sure they zero out the sight BEFORE they shoot their 2 marks to generate the card.


Exactly


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

RchurE said:


> Lee, the reason most count clicks instead of doing what you're talking about is because the first time you use the coarse adjustment on a sight that has that feature then the knob on top is no longer "zeroed".


On some, it is.. I shoot an old CJ Ants... since the 'coarse adjustment' is done by thread engagement on the vertical rod, if you use the coarse adjust it will bring the elevation knob back to the same point on a different thread.. (as long as you don't move your knob while you make your coarse adjustment.. I do it all the time and never move the pointer on the scale side of my sight..  (and as long as you make sure it's fully seated on the thread.. )


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

The reason I use a sight card...

Lets say I know I am a yard short on all my yardages. I figure this out by how low I am of center.

If I am a inch low at 20, I know I am a yard short. If I am 3 inches low at 60, I know I am a yard short.

Here is my marks for 20 yards and 21 yards

20-26.20
21-26.45

Difference is 5 clicks on a 24x20 scale sight.

Now my marks for 60 and 61 yards

60-43.30
61-43.80

Difference is 10 clicks on a 24x20 scale sight.

See the difference in the number of clicks between a yard off at 20 against a yard off at 60? My sight card has all the info I need as long as I know how short or long I am distance wise with my shot.

Now if you don't have very good marks etc. then it is all out the window. 

I usually have good marks before I leave for a tournament and when I go somewhere else and I consistently hit high or low, I can use my method to adjust. I can even do this if every target is different. If some are short and some are long, I know how to adjust my sight based on the first arrow shot.

When I shoot unmarked yardage 3D, I know what the yardage of the target is based on where my arrow hit. 

Know your shot.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

I use a sight tape and a mark card. Only time I go to the card is if the tape get damaged. Tape has never let me down.


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## RchurE (Mar 20, 2007)

The Swami said:


> I am not sure what a coarse adjustment is but if it means moving the pointer. I wouldn't do it.


You don't know what coarse adjustment is? Yeah you do, we just may call it different things. It's the thing you do when you go from the bunny to the 80. So you're saying you click it all the way down there and don't use the coarse adjustment (or quick adjustment, whatever you wanna call it)? 

I've never been able to get a Check-It, Sure-Loc, Toxonics, Copper John, Shibuya, any of them to stay zeroed after you push that button and slide the thing up or down. If you're lucky then it will fully seat back in the drive screw sometimes but you're gonna turn that knob sometime and it's going to turn without moving anything. Then your knob is out of zero. I follow everything you're saying man. This ain't my first rodeo. But I think you misunderstood what I was saying. 

If I'm missing some magic that keeps that knob zeroed on all those sights then fill me in. Until then, I think it's easier to visually get my sight on the mark and then count my clicks. For instance if my 80 is 52.60 then I put the pointer on 52 and then count 12 clicks down. I don't pay any attention to the knob.

Even the spacing between marks on most of these sights are not accurate enough for that knob to be zeroed from 20 to 80 even if you click it the whole way without using the coarse adjustment slide. I've tried it on the CJ I had last year and the Shib I have right now and if I zero my Shib at the top of the scale and then click it down even half way down the bar it's off by a couple of clicks.

So Lee, from my experience, my answer remains the same.


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

RchurE said:


> You don't know what coarse adjustment is? Yeah you do, we just may call it different things. It's the thing you do when you go from the bunny to the 80. So you're saying you click it all the way down there and don't use the coarse adjustment (or quick adjustment, whatever you wanna call it)?
> 
> I've never been able to get a Check-It, Sure-Loc, Toxonics, Copper John, Shibuya, any of them to stay zeroed after you push that button and slide the thing up or down. If you're lucky then it will fully seat back in the drive screw sometimes but you're gonna turn that knob sometime and it's going to turn without moving anything. Then your knob is out of zero. I follow everything you're saying man. This ain't my first rodeo. But I think you misunderstood what I was saying.
> 
> ...


I never meant to imply that you weren't a cowboy.  My post was of a more general nature and not directed specifically at you. Maybe in my past life as Ivorytooth I would have messed with you. 

So many people don't do the things they should with their sights and how to set them up, so I posted what I do.

Yes, now I know what you mean. 

Yes, I turn the knob all the way from 20 to 80. Drives people crazy, but that is how I do it.  If you have been on this site long enough, this shouldn't surprise you. 

If I was to use the coarse adjustment slide, I would first set my knob to zero and then move it. I have never had any issue moving it and putting the pointer perfectly on the line and not being having it seat in the threads ok. What I do is when I release the lever or button to make it slide, I try to move that part of the sight up or down. If it doesn't move, it is seated. If it ever moved or clicked on me, I would use the coarse adjustment slide again until I had it on the line and fully seated.

I remove that part of the sight on my Shib everytime I am done using it on a bow. Before I slide it off, I turn the knob to zero and then slide it off. When I go to put it back on and ready it for use, I slide it up to a numbered line that is closest to the first yardage I shoot. I have had no problems getting it right on the line and not having it seat. You have to pay attention when you eyeball that pointer so it is on the line before releasing the lever, but that is pretty easy if you line it up right. Since the knob was at zero when you took it off, it seats just fine when you put the pointer back on the line.

Like I said, I have no issue with the zeroing in part. I turn the knob all the way down to see if it works. If it is off, I can't really tell. One click is about 
.002 of an inch so it could be slightly off. I haven't seen any issues with marks and my arrows hitting the center using my marks. My magic? I use the middle of the scale to set the pointer initially during the zeroing process. I think I use the 5 line or the 4 line. I then turn the knob up the scale and then down to see if the pointer is on a line when the knob is at zero. How's that for some Swami magic?  

If the scale is off by a couple of clicks or just one, you ain't going be able to see a difference at that farther yardage down the scale. Nobody shoots that good and neither does Reylamb (old AT joke). 

I like to see the number on the knob, so I don't count clicks. Knowing me, I would mess that up.  My preshot involves checking my sight 3 times against the stake and my sight card before I shoot.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Analog for me all the way. :wink: If the shot's 54 yards, I put my pointer right on 54. If it's 23 I put it on 23. Tough to make a mistake.

Print off a whole pile of tapes for different speeds. Set the 20, set the 60, find the tape that fits, stick it on and go.

Don't need to carry around a digital device, worry about charged batteries, inputting the wrong data, getting the thing wet, e-mailing myself anything...


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

> Analog for me all the way. If the shot's 54 yards, I put my pointer right on 54. If it's 23 I put it on 23. Tough to make a mistake.


All you Canuckians are Analog Kids. 

Down here, we are Digital Men.  

I don't carry any gadgets other than a rangefinder and I don't own an inclinometer yet. We all know I never have owned, never will own a stupid cell phone.  I will never have AApalm as that is a disaster waiting to happen if you don't have them marks printed out as backup.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

I would use a tape if i had a program to make them. I guess i might just have to make an investment.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Guys this isn't "rocket science". 

Your sight is set at 20.35 for some yardage - you move to the next target and determine that your sight needs to be at 47.85 for that yardage.

Step 1: Turn the dial on the top to 0 in what ever direction suits you
Step 2: Course adjust the pointer to 47 and the dial the top knob *forward* to .85
OR
Alternative Step 2: Course adjust the pointer to 48 and the dial the top knob *back* to .85

After just a couple of targets this all becomes instinctive and you can actually carry on a conversation while you're adjusting your sight. 

The original question was if anyone used a sight tape. As I stated earlier, I use one "only" as a backup to double check that I have set the sight correctly. Unless you have a pointer the diameter of a hypodermic needle and a sight tape with lines the width of a hair, I very seriously doubt that anyone can adjust their sight to the exact point that your software (AA, AM, OT2, TAP) calls for using just a sight tape. You'll almost always be a click or two off in either direction especially on those sights which have the very low geared vertical threads i.e. 16 turns per inch.

Does 1 or 2 clicks make a difference? Well, I'm not all that good, but the odds of me using a whole number as a "sight in mark" is 1 in 20 and if I was using a 30 click sight, it would be 1 in 30.

To me, not taking advantage of the graduations on your sight of choice is akin to the guy who shoots every arrow to the left and refuses to make a windage adjustment.


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## Butcher (Jun 8, 2005)

I'm relatively new to site tapes and this got me thinking. I typically refer to all site marks by the number of clicks. For instance, the sure-loc example I would consider 30+15 instead of 30.75. The number of clicks is what's needed in site tape software correct correct? Or can either format be used?


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Butcher said:


> I'm relatively new to site tapes and this got me thinking. I typically refer to all site marks by the number of clicks. For instance, the sure-loc example I would consider 30+15 instead of 30.75. The number of clicks is what's needed in site tape software correct correct? Or can either format be used?


Either format can be used in OT2
Archer's Mark requires decimal X.XX
Not sure about AA, but I've always used decimal with it - not sure about clicks
Never used TAP


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Unless you have a pointer the diameter of a hypodermic needle and a sight tape with lines the width of a hair, I very seriously doubt that anyone can adjust their sight to the exact point that your software (AA, AM, OT2, TAP) calls for using just a sight tape. You'll almost always be a click or two off in either direction especially on those sights which have the very low geared vertical threads i.e. 16 turns per inch.


Yeah, well, unless you can consistently group inside the X at the 80 yarder, I seriously doubt the data you input into your little device is accurate enough for you to notice you being a "click or two off".

I've gone a few rounds the last couple of weeks with a fellow using one of these gadgets. He's been editing every few targets, and he's STILL shooting groups high. 

It's just a gadget - one of those things you didn't know you "needed" until someone showed it to you. :wink:


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Huh?*

"Archer's Mark requires decimal X.XX"

So what does that mean? Do you count clicks with AM or is .XX a percentage of a full mark? On the New CBE Elite do you take an AM generated sight mark
of "10.25" and set it for 10 on the whole numbers and 25 on the elevation knob or 10 on the whole numbers and 7.5 on the elevation knob (7.5=.25 of 30)?

Can anyone answer this?

Thanks,
Jbird


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Jbird said:


> "Archer's Mark requires decimal X.XX"
> 
> So what does that mean? Do you count clicks with AM or is .XX a percentage of a full mark? On the New CBE Elite do you take an AM generated sight mark
> of "10.25" and set it for 10 on the whole numbers and 25 on the elevation knob or 10 on the whole numbers and 7.5 on the elevation knob (7.5=.25 of 30)?
> ...




Look at the documentation for AM. It clearly shows in the examples that X.XX is used to enter your near and far marks. What is so complicated about that?

Now look at that new CBE Elite sight you have. WOW - there's a scale on the top knob that has graduations on it.


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

blueglide1 said:


> My tape is a #2 Pencil,shoot the yardage and mark it down on a card.Good practice and gets me out 2 or 3 times a week to shoot and check.


I went out last night to make my marks.Took me 1 and 1/2 hrs,outside enjoying the day.10yds to 80yds in 5yd increments.Even had time to sight in a 70 meter mark for a shoot in another week.I will go out and practice these marks about 2 or 3 times a week.Just to keep muscle memory sharp.It is a lot harder to hold a sight picture the right way at long distance before the release goes off than at 20 yds.So practice is a must.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Look at the documentation for AM. It clearly shows in the examples that X.XX is used to enter your near and far marks. What is so complicated about that?
> 
> Now look at that new CBE Elite sight you have. WOW - there's a scale on the top knob that has graduations on it.


Hold the fort - While there aren't very many pix on line of the new CBE sights, I think I can see what is causing some confusion. 

Can anyone verify that the graduations on the top knob of CBE sight go from 0-29 OR do they go from 0-100?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I have an old CBE ProLite and no internet at home so I do use the tapes. That sight is still rock solid and can't justify replacing it just because it has an oddball thread and no scale when a tape works just fine (EXCEPT for the fact that I can't hardly read the tweener marks - hoping the new magnifier fits the old sights).


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## josh_X_wny (Oct 18, 2006)

I use the printed sight tapes from ot2, can be a pain to keep changing the tapes till you get one perfect but once its right it is simple to adjust. 

I just cranked up my bow 5 lbs, so I just printed off a set of tapes + and - from 277 ft/s and will slap a new one on when I get my 20 and 60, and measure the gap.

I am also shooting a CBE quad so I am limited to my options, but I dont think I would use a card even if I was shooting another sight with a factory scale.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Marks on Top Knob*



pragmatic_lee said:


> Hold the fort - While there aren't very many pix on line of the new CBE sights, I think I can see what is causing some confusion.
> 
> Can anyone verify that the graduations on the top knob of CBE sight go from 0-29 OR do they go from 0-100?


The graduation marks are 0-29.
Jbird


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Great Answer!*

I'm just an idiot who doesn't understand how sights work.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Jbird said:


> The graduation marks are 0-29.
> Jbird


Thanks for the clarification! As early as the 13 century BC the widely accepted number system has been base10 and "I" made the silly assumption that it was being used by all sight companies like Sureloc does, BUT I was wrong!!!

Just been conversing with Scott (BowDadToo) about what should be entered into AM when using a sight that does not use base10 and I think I could hear him snickering though the email. :wink:

Simply put in what your sight "tells" you. If you're using the CBE and your course adjustment is >= 29, but < 30 and your dial is on 17, simply enter 29.17. Scott in his wonderfully coded program will convert that to the required fractional value of a full turn, compute your marks, then convert them back to a value that matches the graduations on your sight.

If you're using the CBE, you should never get a mark value back that has a "decimal" notation > 29. So you get a value back of 39.18 - set your course to 39 and then advance to 18 on the top knob scale.

Sorry for the confusion everyone, but between base10, hex, and binary I made a wrong assumption.

BTW: There are only 10 people that understand binary. :wink:


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

I run a sight tape. With OT2 it's easy to do and slight modifications are no problem.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

pragmatic_lee said:


> BTW: There are only 10 people that understand binary. :wink:


But neither of them are here.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Bobmuley said:


> But neither of them are here.


1 + 1 = 0 with a carry of 1 or 10 :bartstush:


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## scclimber (May 2, 2007)

i heard there are only 10 types of people in this world; those that understand binary, and those that do not.


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

scclimber said:


> i heard there are only 10 types of people in this world; those that understand binary, and those that do not.


That's funny. 


I heard there are only three types. Those who can count and those who can't. :wink:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

scclimber said:


> i heard there are only 10 types of people in this world; those that understand binary, and those that do not.


A more appropriate way of saying basically the same thing.

The term "I like archery" in binary
0100100100100000011011000110100101101011011001010010000001100001011100100110001101101000011001010111001001111001


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## LoneEagle0607 (Jan 15, 2008)

pragmatic_lee said:


> A more appropriate way of saying basically the same thing.
> 
> The term "I like archery" in binary
> 0100100100100000011011000110100101101011011001010010000001100001011100100110001101101000011001010111001001111001


All right you computer geeks,come back to Earth:wink:


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

Ron Meadows said:


> I use a site tape.....what a royal PITA having to count click and loop at a dern card/screen everytime you want to set your site......I can see the advantages for when you change something or are just getting new marks, but when you have your setup established and are just shooting it's pure crazy to have to look at a screen/card then click.


AMEN! I know of a few guys who are great shots but lose a ton of points every tournament because they set their sight wrong or they transfer from their palm to their sight wrong --tapes all the way!


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

Guess it could be the last area where you can claim that something other than a bad shot or you just suck for missing the dot....."guess I just set my site wrong, again"......phoey. When I miss it's all me...no excuses or whining!



andy1996 said:


> AMEN! I know of a few guys who are great shots but lose a ton of points every tournament because they set their sight wrong or they transfer from their palm to their sight wrong --tapes all the way!


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> A more appropriate way of saying basically the same thing.
> 
> The term "I like archery" in binary
> 0100100100100000011011000110100101101011011001010010000001100001011100100110001101101000011001010111001001111001


I re-read your ideas on the clicks and the numbers on the top dial. Turns out mine does have them afterall.. I guess I just never paid attention. I've never found counting between 1 and 20 to be that arduous of a task, and I realized I tend to do it while I'm looking at the target.. Focusing.. yeah, that's what I'm doing, focusing.. :lie:


Plus it just fits my theory..

01101011011001010110010101110000001000000110100101110100 0010000001110011011010010110110101110000011011000110010100100000011100110111010001110101011100000110100101100100


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

No, there are 11 types of people. Those that understand binary, those that don't, and those that do but have no sense of humor.

Sight tapes RULE!


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

jawsdad said:


> i re-read your ideas on the clicks and the numbers on the top dial. Turns out mine does have them afterall.. I guess i just never paid attention. I've never found counting between 1 and 20 to be that arduous of a task, and i realized i tend to do it while i'm looking at the target.. Focusing.. Yeah, that's what i'm doing, focusing.. :lie:
> 
> 
> Plus it just fits my theory..
> ...



0100100100100000011000110110111101101110011000110111010101110010


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

010101110110010100100000011001000110111101101110001001110111010000100000011011100110010101100101011001000010000001110100011100100110111101110101011000100110110001100101001000000110100101101110001000000110100001100101011100100110010100100000011010010110111000100000011000010110111001111001001000000110110001100001011011100110011101110101011000010110011101100101001000010010000100100001


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

01010111011001010010000001100100011011110110111000 10011101110100001000000110111001100101011001010110 01000010000001110100011100100110111101110101011000 10011011000110010100100000011010010110111000100000 01101000011001010111001001100101001000000110100101 10111000100000011000010110111001111001001000000110 11000110000101101110011001110111010101100001011001 11011001010010000100100001001000011111000001111001010101010100101010101010101010100101011111111010101001010100101001010101110100101010010..........01010010101001001010100101001010111001010100001010010100101001010101001010101001010101010101010

NEVER EVER be caught by depending upon ELECTRONICS out on a course. You do NOT get "repair time" or "practice arrows" if your palm pilot or iPod craps out on you! I use site tapes...but do NOT depend upon those either....

MOST people don't realize that CAREFUL site tape preparation BEFORE even trying to place this on your site bar is imperative....if you just up and try to stick it on there and "roll it down" to make it stick...you have just stretched that tape and it is now INACCURATE!

It isn't all peachy keen when using a computer generated site tape and placing it "carelessly" on your site bar!!!!

Myself, I use a placard system, and have since the mid-1980's. I have never once mis-set my site or had a problem this way. YES, there is a tape on the other side of the site bar...but I use it to make sure I've not transposed numbers, but I don't depend upon the site tape all by itself. I would NEVER go onto a field course with "everything" contained in a techno-toy.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Sight Cards rule!!   

I am going to write an article on sights, marks etc. It will be very extensive and have some things most have not thought about, especially for pin shooters. I might post here or submit to the NFAA mag, haven't decided.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

The Swami said:


> Sight Cards rule!!
> 
> I am going to write an article on sights, marks etc. It will be very extensive and have some things most have not thought about, especially for pin shooters. I might post here or submit to the NFAA mag, haven't decided.


I gotta agree.. they are faster and more accurate imo.. that's why I use em..  (plus.. I have old eyes.. they are +/- 2yds on a sight tape.. ) :mg:


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## Lefty1Ghost (Dec 25, 2009)

I love it when people have all the electronics, talking about .35 this and .85 that. then walk up to a 45 yarder and shoot 2 arrows 10 inches apart. sight tapes are all any of us will ever need.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Lefty1Ghost said:


> I love it when people have all the electronics, talking about .35 this and .85 that. then walk up to a 45 yarder and shoot 2 arrows 10 inches apart. sight tapes are all any of us will ever need.


Let 'em keep spending the money trying to BUY scores with techno-toys. It keeps YOU higher up on the leader board when they do that instead of investing the money on a good coach or several coaching sessions to improve their TECHNIQUE, FORM, and shot sequence!

Doncha just luv it when they have shot two shots, and one is HIGH and one is LOW....and they get that puzzled look as in "Now what do I do? Which one was the good one?":embara::embara::shade:

The other funny one is those that are on the PRACTICE RANGE sighting in their bows for the day's event...punching away at the computer....
Then there are the others that have site tapes....and while on the PRACTICE RANGE...are moving their indicator pins to "correct their sites"....
I think, "THANK YOU for the points you just gave me today." Blind faith and trust in "toys" and lack of knowledge about "the special things" really can screw people up.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## pops1 (Jul 13, 2009)

RchurE said:


> You don't know what coarse adjustment is? Yeah you do, we just may call it different things. It's the thing you do when you go from the bunny to the 80. So you're saying you click it all the way down there and don't use the coarse adjustment (or quick adjustment, whatever you wanna call it)?
> 
> I've never been able to get a Check-It, Sure-Loc, Toxonics, Copper John, Shibuya, any of them to stay zeroed after you push that button and slide the thing up or down. If you're lucky then it will fully seat back in the drive screw sometimes but you're gonna turn that knob sometime and it's going to turn without moving anything. Then your knob is out of zero. I follow everything you're saying man. This ain't my first rodeo. But I think you misunderstood what I was saying.
> 
> ...



I just return my clicks knob to "0" before I use the coarse adjustment and then I always stop at an even mark and click from there. Works perfect for me this way and the clicks knob is always zeroed.


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## STUDENT-ARCHER (Jun 26, 2009)

tape over a tape for me...works well.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

field14 said:


> Let 'em keep spending the money trying to BUY scores with techno-toys. It keeps YOU higher up on the leader board when they do that instead of investing the money on a good coach or several coaching sessions to improve their TECHNIQUE, FORM, and shot sequence!
> 
> Doncha just luv it when they have shot two shots, and one is HIGH and one is LOW....and they get that puzzled look as in "Now what do I do? Which one was the good one?":embara::embara::shade:
> 
> ...




Yep, them there computers are vooooodooooo... Nothing good ever came from embracing technology.. :wink:

I sure hope you aren't shooting any of them new fangled bows that were probably designed on and cut by a machine controlled by a computer. 

I don't disagree that you should have the ability to use a back-up method, which in my case will be a printed card and possibly even a sight tape. But why so negative about the idea that technology can in fact work? :noidea:


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

:thumbs_up


Lefty1Ghost said:


> I love it when people have all the electronics, talking about .35 this and .85 that. then walk up to a 45 yarder and shoot 2 arrows 10 inches apart. sight tapes are all any of us will ever need.


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

You are wasting your time typing anything to that man that has anything to do with computers, gadgets, or anything having to do with the 21st century technology wise......you have to be a complete and total idiot to use such things...better to use a stone tablet and a rock....hell I bet that he wears gloves to type on a keyboard for the posts he blathers on with here....afraid that he'll turn to stone if his fingers were to actually touch a "gadget"...



JawsDad said:


> Yep, them there computers are vooooodooooo... Nothing good ever came from embracing technology.. :wink:
> 
> I sure hope you aren't shooting any of them new fangled bows that were probably designed on and cut by a machine controlled by a computer.
> 
> I don't disagree that you should have the ability to use a back-up method, which in my case will be a printed card and possibly even a sight tape. But why so negative about the idea that technology can in fact work? :noidea:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Ouch.. :chortle:

My post was mostly tongue in cheek. Being a developer myself, and in an industry with MANY people who like to wax poetically about "back in the day", I run up against this attitude frequently. As with most things in this sport, to each his own.


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