# Draw length



## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

measure your wing span and divide by 2.5,that will give you a good starting point,if you had been shooting to long a draw the short draw will feel strange but you will shoot better in the long run.


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

To measure draw, I've been told to drink 4-5 beers, get into a draw position, put a yard stick or a rope tape and measure from the inside fleshy portion of your palm to the far corner of your lips. I think my draw length is 29 and I shoot 31 inch arrows. 2 inch overhang suggested for hunting arrows and one inch for target.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

Thanks for the tips. Measuring from finger tip to finger tip and dividing by 2.5 gives me 28.8". By measuring from where i hold the riser to the corner of my mouth gives me 31". With my loop I get to about 30 inches. Without it Im trying to pull the bow apart fighting the wall to get to my set point.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Just an educated guess but it sounds that you have been drawing too long for too long (pun intended). That's why a 29" feels too short. Using the wingspan method is just one way of measuring, but it is usually the most consistent. There really is no correct drawlength for everybody. I hate the word "correct". There is an optimum drawlength that will allow for the most accurate and comfortable shooting, and it's most often shorter than most people think. Of course, there is a way around some of the guessing. You can get a bow that has a rotating module on it and be able to adjust the draw as you see fit.

Not to suggest any one brand of bow but there are a few out there that have a rotating module. Take a look at Martin with a Nitrous or Tru-Arc cam. Hoyt w/ Cam + 1/2 is another example. There are others. You just have to look for them. Most like this are adjustable over about 2 1/2" to 3" range.

You have to be a little careful with some models like Mathews or BowTech. These often have a cam that is drawlength specific and if you need more than 1/2" adjustment you need to order a new cam. These bows are not BAD. You just need to know what your optimum drawlength is before getting one.

In your case, with a wingspan that computes to 28.8" I'd look for something around 28.5" to 29" and learn how to shoot it. Also, don't take for granted that because the tag on the lower limb says 29" that this is what it is. Many bows draw as much as an inch longer than marked. Have the bow measured to see if it is as marked.

Take your time with this and get the drawlength right for you. This should be the first and most important consideration of a compound bow. If you can't get this right then nothing else about the bow even matters.

The fact that you went to four shops and got four different measurements just shows what I have been saying for a long time. Just because it is supposedly a "Pro-Shop" doesn't necessarily mean that the employees know what they are doing. That's why it's good for you to learn for yourself.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

Yea, ive found its usually easier to learn myself. This site has been a great source of info. Surely you guy know how difficult will to be to learn a shorter draw. I guess comfortable is not always right. What are the problems that arise with using a draw thats too long? See if I can find a pattern. I'll be checking the bow against the production tag - I should have thought of that first.


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## shadowdrak (May 21, 2005)

INTODEEP said:


> What are the problems that arise with using a draw thats too long? See if I can find a pattern. I'll be checking the bow against the production tag - I should have thought of that first.


Inconsistent form and shooting, lots of string slap, pulling to far back to anchor firmly, and the list goes on. It's been said it's better to shoot a slight bit short, then to shoot a slight bit too long. Also if you go a slight bit short, you can fine tune the length with your D loop, to where if it's slightly too long and you shoot off the string, you really can't remedy that problem. The best bet on buying a new bow if it's not draw adjustable on the cam, is to try out the specific cam type that you want to shoot on that bow.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

I kinda figured string slap would be a result. Never have had a problem with it though. If I am under drawing what kind of speed increase could I expect if I increase by an inch, assuming my arrows dont have to grow?


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

The wingspan method says I should shoot 29.75". I used 30" for many years. But, got to a point I couldn't improve my groupings. I finally started experimenting with draw length and shoot different setups on different bows. But, I am around 28.5" with a relative short D-loop.

Your pin movement will always be moving is long sweep around the target and you will have a tendency to shoot to the left if your draw is too long. 

I would work with the bow for a while before I started making changes. I think someone may have done you a big favor. The 29" draw is going to feel a lot shorter with that short of Axle to Axle.

You might want to get a side picture at full draw and post it here and see what other think of the draw length.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

Thats a good idea I'll try to get a pic and post it this evening or tomorrow. Ive not noticed a pin movement or predominate groupings one way or the other. I did have a problem getting the pin to settle with the new bow before putting on the d loop. The pic will look backwards to most of you folks me being a southpaw and all. Hey, maybe thats my problem.


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## Dean Lawter (Feb 15, 2005)

*Seek Professional Help!*

LOL! Really though you should! Talk to some of your local Pro's, learn who know's what they are talking about at the shops you visit. If you had your last bow for so many years that you did not know the draw length, did you know string length? As that bow got older draw length may have got longer. If the new AR you bought is not set up properly more than the draw length can be off. If you are fighting to keep bow back as you stated, your cam may be out of time. Beleive me, new bows strings settle during shipment and after first few hundred shots. HAVE someone check out the position of the cam. If you measured 28.8 on wing span, I'd stay close to that. Check out some literature from Larry Wise for, shooting form, draw length and the likes. If you want to be at your best learn from some of the best. Larry Wise and Dan Hart, Frank Pearson, Mike Braden, the list is long, but find one of these guys books or pay to get some lessons. I promise you will not be dissapointed. A friend of mine on the Mathews Pro staff had Dan Hart come up and do a seminar one weekend, it was the best archery money I have spent in 20 years! Tiger Woods has a coach, I know I need one!


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## Washi (Jan 23, 2005)

It can be bad to shoot too short of a draw too. If the length you are using feels good then it might be right for you. I have seen people keep shortening their draw to help them shoot better when it was actually a problem in their form that was causing it all along.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

Dean L. I didnt suggest the bow wasnt in tune or that it was shooting poorly. In fact its shooting great and so did my older bow, both probably more capable than myself. I really enjoy tinkering with it and thoroughly enjoyed the process of setting the new bow up. Its had hundreds of shots thru it and so far the WC strings are rock solid, I group good and my BHs fly with my fields out to 50 yds, my max practice range. I dont doubt I could use some professional guidance but as I stated earlier Ive been in and out of the local shops and have met with limited success fixing problems and learning. I'll check out the books etc. you recommended.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

OK here are the requested pics. Better late than never.


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## trob (Nov 5, 2005)

Your DL looks OK to me. With the release you use it just looks like your long due to your draw elbow position. A couple of suggestions, get a bow sling so you can shoot with a more relaxed grip and check the height of your peep. It looks like you're bending your head over to look through the peep. Looks like you're aiming at the gas tank on the flat bed....did you hit it?


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

I had wondered if my peep was low. It really shows in the photos. Everyone should have some pics taken of them shooting, it makes things easier to find. And yes I hit the dump truck - perfect thru & thru went 25 yards and piled up. A *^$ch to drag out of the woods though!


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## buckfeverben (Dec 2, 2004)

I think your draw length looks pretty good as well. Aside form the advice mentioned above, you may want to experiment with a slight bend in your bow arm. 

I shot too long a draw for several years....making the change does feel different for a while, but once you get used to it you will shoot better.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

There is little doubt that your the draw is too long. Just looking at the bent wrist on your drawing arm shows that. Shortening up on the release could help this some and getting the tigger away from your finger tip. I also notice that the string appears to stretch beyond the corner of your mouth at full draw. Also the release looks like it's too long. Of course this could be changed a little just by lowering your anchor.

Frankly, from a personal standpoint I don't like drawing a kisser button back to the corner of the mouth, but that's where most guys draw to. I figure it's called a kisser button for a reason. Shorten up and get it to the front of the lips. This will get the string in front of your face so you don't have to lean into the string. 

Try this. Stand and look at your target. Then draw the bow. You should not have to move your head at all. This is what bow fit is about. You make the bow fit you, not the other way around.


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## Carlos (Jan 19, 2005)

Looks about one inch too long.
The wrist on the draw arm should be straight.
The forearm also should be inline with arrow, right now is pointing up.
I went from 29 to 28 draw and It felt unconfortable at first.
I cam aim better now and use backtension intead of my arm muscles to hold the bow.


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

It's difficult to tell from the photo, but it appears that you have your bow arm extended out a little bit. Most of us are steadier when the bow arm shoulder is down and back. Only you can tell.

If you are stretched out, then the DL on that bow is long for you. How much depends on how much your bow arm is stretched out.

I agree on the sling and relaxed hand comments.

Are you going to get that dump truck mounted?  

Good luck,
Allen


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## BigJ12 (Feb 4, 2005)

I also think you are slightly overdrawn. Not only is your draw wrist bent but it appears your head is tilted back slightly. You have an overall appearance of being "stretched out"


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

Allen Read - No I wont be mounting this dump truck. Its just run of the mill for this neck of the woods. Freezer filler material. 

BigJ12 if I could whine a little bit - _but streched out is soooo much more comfy_ - OK there whining over.

It seems fairly consistent you guys agree with how the bow was set up originally - 29" w/out the D loop. If you cant see it adds about 1 inch to my draw, making total draw 29 and 7/8 (we measured). If I eliminate the loop after season that'll put me back in the 29" range and I'll go kicking and screaming until I see groups begin to tighten.


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## goldtip2005 (Dec 13, 2005)

Everything was good advice that i read , except your bow hand (your right) needed to be relaxed a little , it looked like your were squeezing the grip too tight , and your draw lenght is about an inch too long judging by where the string set on your face . I'm not sure what kind draw weight your pulling , unless your out to kill a grizzly you dont need to pull over 60lb but that is up to the shooter . I've been shooting 3-D for about 15 yrs. and i only pull 58lb(after shooting over 100 shots a day , it is a lot easier)


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## railbird (May 21, 2005)

Remember, the D-loop doesn't have a thing to do with your draw length. Your draw length is what it is. The D-loop merely determines where your anchor will be.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

railbird that makes sense.. should have figured that by myself. If I get the gist of things at full draw against the wall I may be bringing the string too far "into" my face. I need the nock point to be further towards the tip of my nose. I may need a 3" loop to get to my comfortable set point instead of eliminating the loop like this thread started. Does anyone have an opinion about adjustable length strap type caliper or ball bearing releases?


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Making a longer loop, or a longer release isn't the answer. It's not going to keep you from stretching out too far like you are now. You need to shorten something to get your drawing arm in line and get your hand to anchor farther forward.
I didn't see the loop but removing this might be part of the answer also.
You need to get used to a shorter length. You might be uncomfortable in doing so, but that's because your comfort zone is too long. It takes time to adapt to a shorter draw. Not a couple of shots, but maybe a full month of shooting every day.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

OK, this is all coming together. bfisher you are correct. I shortened my draw by 3/8 in. today. No problems. I know I probably need more but Im going to ease forward in smaller increments and maybe it wont be such a huge change all at once. If I need to shorten further I'll have to procure a new module. I stopped by one of our local shops today and caught them a little slow and got some good assistance. They agreed I was to long and thought that the3/8th adjustment looked pretty close. We checked the peep and made no change. Got home just in time to shoot some to readjust the sight rack for tomorrows hunt. (reset the nock after changing the DL)


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## Biketrax (Nov 3, 2005)

*boot*


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## r2t2 (Feb 8, 2003)

If you have never had a bow with "wall" it will take some trial and error to get the draw comfortable.
Someone mentioned earlier that you should seriously consider a bow that will give you some draw length adjustment as it can get expensive to get new cams. (Example Mathews) If it is only modules it is less costly. If it is a new bow your considering your pro shop will probably exchange for nothing. Mathews dealers are good about this. I bought a used Mathews and it got expensive trying to get the draw correct. Keep in mind that 1/4" is noticeable when using back tension. My 2004 BowTec has exchangeable modules and adjustments and I have done a lot of tinkering that I could not do with some bows. Once your have your correct draw your will feel more confident when buying another bow.

RT


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

Thanks guys. Just waiting for the weather to clear up a bit and get out there and re-fine tune things after the changes.


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## Dean Lawter (Feb 15, 2005)

*D Loop*

Take the loop off if you like. I do not feel it will hurt a thing. I shot without it for years, I am considering taking mine off again. To the best of my recollection, the D-Loop came around when the back tension releases with those tiny hooks with loops showed up. It is a whole lot easier to hook on the d-loop than work the loop around the string and attach. The D-Loop may have materialized also when bows started the shorter A to A trend. String angle and pinch offs became more common. Also when you would let down, you would have to re-nock your arrow. For years I would take a piece of braided 0.26 serving and tie a nock above and below my arrow nock. I liked that better a the robber eliminator buttons. It would usually last for an entire 3D season. I liked tis because the tied on nock was locked in place and did not put presseure on arrow nock.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Hey Brett,

Good idea to shorten up in smaller increments. It gives your body time to adjust over time. 

Just as a matter of info where is Jones, OK? I have a daughter that lives in Elk City, near the western edge.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

Bfisher Jones is in central OK about 20 minutes NE of downtown OKC. Elk City is a really nice community in western OK. All of western OK is starting to produce good #s of LARGE bucks. Mostly farm and ranch country with well fed critters. Ive been kinda hampered by wet cold weather (by our standards) and following two busy little league basketball teams, not getting much time to shoot. The changes I've made so far have felt ok, actually helping me "find" my peep easier.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Glad things are coming along nicely. Just have patience and give things time for your muscles and mind to adjust to them.

I was actually stationed at Tinker AFB in 1967-68, so I got a chance to travel around the state playing weekend warrior with the 3rd Mobile Command Group (probably not there any more). But that's all in the past. Let's stick to the present.


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## INTOODEEP (Sep 29, 2004)

In this part of the world if you dont work at Tinker you may just be unemployed.


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