# New ASA Scoring Rings



## ABTABB (Apr 4, 2007)

Picture of the new scoring rings for 2013 from the ASA Forum..









The thread with a little more info, http://asaforum.com/index.php?topic=7620.msg50439#new


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Like it


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

I thought the lines were not going to be connected?


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

Archerybuff said:


> I thought the lines were not going to be connected?


The center IBO (11) and the upper and lower ASA (12) scoring rings are not connected.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

are you talking about the 12 touching the 8? shouldn't be a problem imho.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm going for the 14


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> I'm going for the 14


It wil be scored an 8


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

I've seen a lot more "discussions" calling a 12 from the outside in the 8 area personally. I think it would have been a better idea to seperate the the 12 line from the 10 line.


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

I like it.


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## woodyw333 (Feb 9, 2010)

10 is my friend.. If I get a 12 then so be it


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## mod10g (Dec 18, 2006)

I agree



Archerybuff said:


> I've seen a lot more "discussions" calling a 12 from the outside in the 8 area personally. I think it would have been a better idea to seperate the the 12 line from the 10 line.


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## Callo21 (Feb 4, 2007)

D.Short said:


> It wil be scored an 8


Ditto.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Archerybuff said:


> I've seen a lot more "discussions" calling a 12 from the outside in the 8 area personally. I think it would have been a better idea to seperate the the 12 line from the 10 line.


I thought this was what everyone was talking about the lines of two scores wont be touching.

This is an improvement though.
DB


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, the connector line was more of a "sucking" the 12 to the 10 line and calling it a 12, wasn't it? Now, it either is or is not.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

D.Short said:


> It wil be scored an 8


Not if I shoot a 5


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Well, the connector line was more of a "sucking" the 12 to the 10 line and calling it a 12, wasn't it? Now, it either is or is not.


No it hasn't changed the way I see it. You can shoot an 8 and suck the ten line and if your outside of the 12 in the 8 area you'll be sucking the 12 as well. I still expect to have "discussions" about whether or not this shot would be a 10 or 12


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

This is what I was expecting. A gap between the outside ten and the twelve ring. Just out of curiosity what venue are you guys shooting that scores the 11 and twelve rings. The clubs I shoot are either 12 or 11 but not both. So the lines connecting at the center 11 and twelves don't really cause much grief.


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

I agree with archerybuffs illustration,this is what I think it should be,ie,clear and seperate lines.


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

Archerybuff said:


> No it hasn't changed the way I see it. You can shoot an 8 and suck the ten line and if your outside of the 12 in the 8 area you'll be sucking the 12 as well. I still expect to have "discussions" about whether or not this shot would be a 10 or 12


Looks like a clear 10, no way thats a 12.


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

D.Short said:


> I agree with archerybuffs illustration,this is what I think it should be,ie,clear and seperate lines.


I agree, would have made it clearer... but lets be honest no matter what there is still going to be arrows that are questioned so this is a step in the right direction imo.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Sorry guys, that black circle does establish the 8 line. Look again.


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## ABTABB (Apr 4, 2007)

The biggest problem in the past IMO was, most of the targets were different.. Some of them the lines came together as one, and some were 2 distinct lines.. And the only thing that addressed the issue was the picture in the Tour Guide.. The simplest solution would have been removing the 11 ring.. 

I wish the outside lines didn't come together too, but it's a step in the right direction.. I would have to disagree with some of the above posts though, I have seen way more "discussions" about the inside 11/12 connector line, than the outside 10/12 connector..


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

What venue were you shooting that scored the 11 and 12 rings?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Try this again; should have been "doesn't" establish.... Here's the 8 ring and 10 ring.


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Try this again; should have been "doesn't" establish.... Here's the 8 ring and 10 ring.


The black circle simulates an arrow not a scoring ring. The "discussions" come about when an arrow is shot in that spot.


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## ABTABB (Apr 4, 2007)

Archerybuff said:


> What venue were you shooting that scored the 11 and 12 rings?


No Venue scores both, ASA scores 12's, IBO scores the 11.. Everyone just refers to the center ring as the IBO, 11, or center 10..


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## WCH (Aug 1, 2006)

If the fourteen ring isn't scored why is it there?


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

Pro shoot down still uses the 14 I think. All other classes 14 is no longer in play.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

SonnyThomas said:


> Well, the connector line was more of a "sucking" the 12 to the 10 line and calling it a 12, wasn't it? Now, it either is or is not.


What everyone used to refer to the connector was where the 12 ring met with the 11 ring. Most of the targets have always had the 12 and 10 connecting at that point shown in the picture.



LCA said:


> Looks like a clear 10, no way thats a 12.


I have shot with plenty of folks that would have called that a 12. I would need to see an actual arrow in that spot to call it myself, but just going by the picture it would be hard not to call it a 12, IMO. Just by th epicture, the 12 and 10 rings have no seperation at the particular spot, and they do actually join right there.


ABTABB said:


> The biggest problem in the past IMO was, most of the targets were different.. Some of them the lines came together as one, and some were 2 distinct lines.. And the only thing that addressed the issue was the picture in the Tour Guide.. The simplest solution would have been removing the 11 ring..
> 
> I wish the outside lines didn't come together too, but it's a step in the right direction.. I would have to disagree with some of the above posts though, I have seen way more "discussions" about the inside 11/12 connector line, than the outside 10/12 connector..


The hyena was notorious for having a gap between the bottom of the 12 and the 10 ring.


WCH said:


> If the fourteen ring isn't scored why is it there?


I believe it still counts on the SIMS, and possiby the team shoot, and for sure in the shoot downs.


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## WCH (Aug 1, 2006)

Thanks I figured it counted somewhere just didn't know.


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

Be nice if the just made a Asa lower 12 plug and leave the other rings out.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

There's going to be controversy no matter what.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Archerybuff said:


> No it hasn't changed the way I see it. You can shoot an 8 and suck the ten line and if your outside of the 12 in the 8 area you'll be sucking the 12 as well. I still expect to have "discussions" about whether or not this shot would be a 10 or 12


Where you have that marked that would be a 10 all day.


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

cenochs said:


> Where you have that marked that would be a 10 all day.


I'm with you on the 10 but I have shot with people that would disagree. I've been in judgement calls that were farther out than that and still lobbied for a 12. Seems like to me it would alleviate a lot of arguing if they would have seperated the lines. Oh well at least they broke the lines from the center circle, it's a start.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Archerybuff said:


> I'm with you on the 10 but I have shot with people that would disagree. I've been in judgement calls that were farther out than that and still lobbied for a 12. Seems like to me it would alleviate a lot of arguing if they would have seperated the lines. Oh well at least they broke the lines from the center circle, it's a start.


You are correct I totally agree we shoot with some good politicians that politic for every point


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

I would call that arrow placement a 12 all day long. That paticular part of the ring is actually the bottom of the 12 ring. Outside the pie is established as the 10 ring. Thats just how its called if you call it differently you've been calling it wrong.(I know some of you guys are fixen to bash me for that but its fact.) And I don't care how you do the rings there are always going to be arrows that some will argue in and some will argue out. There was really nothing wrong with the other rings since asa rules established a clear rule with a drawing as to what was a 12 and a 10. I never had a problem with them I left my opionion out of it and just followed the rules. Too many times our own opinions and how we think the game should be played gets in the way of the rules and how the game is actually played. Follow the rules how there set and go compete and the main thing have fun.


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

This how I see the 12 ring scoring line. I see the arrow as out of the 12. Definitely in the 10.


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

Archerybuff said:


> This is what I was expecting. A gap between the outside ten and the twelve ring. Just out of curiosity what venue are you guys shooting that scores the 11 and twelve rings. The clubs I shoot are either 12 or 11 but not both. So the lines connecting at the center 11 and twelves don't really cause much grief.


The whole deal with seperating the lines was the twelve from the ibo eleven. And the illistration you posted with the black circle for the arrow would be scored a 12


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## luckychucky (Jul 27, 2008)

Archerybuff said:


> This how I see the 12 ring scoring line. I see the arrow as out of the 12. Definitely in the 10.


I just looked at the ASA Tour guide to see if a photo of the scoring ring was in there and it takes in account the area where the 12 ring and 10 ring meets and I would have to call it a 12 based on what I see there. In other words, the circle you drawed isnt correct based on the ASA scoring, at the bottom it becomes a owls head lol, it gains ears. I have scored alot of these in our open a class as well at the ASA ProAms and I havnt seen anyone not get the 12 in this case.


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## 3-D Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

reylamb, 
The 14 is no longer scored 14, only exception...the final Pro Shootdown.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Archerybuff said:


> This how I see the 12 ring scoring line. I see the arrow as out of the 12. Definitely in the 10.


Yes.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Guys, sonny not knowa the 14 is out of play. Hes just fishing for a resposnse lol


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

SonnyThomas said:


> There's going to be controversy no matter what.


surely not!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

J Whittington said:


> Guys, sonny not knowa the 14 is out of play. Hes just fishing for a resposnse lol


What, me do this?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Rather than using the "outer ring" as the scoring line use the "inner ring" as the scoring line. Doing so would completely separate the "12" from the "10". I expect someone would come along and use a tooth pick for an arrow and make a shot that did not touch either the 12 or the 10............ they would get the LOWER score!


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

3-D Quest said:


> reylamb,
> The 14 is no longer scored 14, only exception...the final Pro Shootdown.


Not even on the SIMS??????


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

No 14 on the sims, just pro shootdown.


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

Archerybuff said:


> This how I see the 12 ring scoring line. I see the arrow as out of the 12. Definitely in the 10.


Thats the way i see it also... wow no wonder we have guys shooting 25+ up.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

LCA said:


> wow no wonder we have guys shooting 25+ up.


Why even go there? Maybe guys shoot way up because they work hard at it and make the shots when it counts.

From the picture, I would tend to think this arrow is out but I would have to really look at it. ASA illustrates that the connector makes 90 degree turns at that spot. In or out, its by thousandths.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> Why even go there? Maybe guys shoot way up because they work hard at it and make the shots when it counts.
> 
> From the picture, I would tend to think this arrow is out but I would have to really look at it. ASA illustrates that the connector makes 90 degree turns at that spot. In or out, its by thousandths.
> 
> ...


T......he had to go there....hes up north....they have to find some way to win against all the winner that come from the south.... just show him that we just put it in the middle...and their is no whining about it


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

Maybe because people are scoring very differently, i wouldn't get all defensive... If we have groups out there calling scores that have a 2 point difference it is common sense that this is going to cause an issue. I don't think it is good to be having some shooters potentialy scoring targets on a 2 point variance.. do you? I have shot way up at a national so i know what go's into it and i have shot at enough of these shoots that i have seen the difference in the way some folks call arrows. In anyother sport it is either in or out, dont you think that people arguing 10's and 12's is a turn off to folks getting into shooting tournaments?


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

bhtr3d said:


> T......he had to go there....hes up north....they have to find some way to win against all the winner that come from the south.... just show him that we just put it in the middle...and their is no whining about it


HUH??? im saying it is a 10.... according to some of the folks on here i am cheating myself and others in my group out of points... i have shot with guys that would have won shoots atleast twice if we would have scored that way. I just want to be fair to myself and the folks im shooting with so if that was a 12, i want to know it.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Archerybuff said:


> This how I see the 12 ring scoring line. I see the arrow as out of the 12. Definitely in the 10.


You are forgetting important part of the 12 ring..... the argument is.... where is the junction of the 10/12 (end of the "pie" ) to establish the turn of the line.





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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

LCA said:


> HUH??? im saying it is a 10.... according to some of the folks on here i am cheating myself and others in my group out of points... i have shot with guys that would have won shoots atleast twice if we would have scored that way. I just want to be fair to myself and the folks im shooting with so if that was a 12, i want to know it.


That is a 12 all day, every day! Period!



A lot of this scoring stuff in this thread is nothing more than what kind of scorer you are, and how you want to win. I am the type of scorer that I do everything that I can do to call every arrow in. No matter whose arrow it is! That way when we walk off the range and I beat you, no one will be able to say I would have won if he wouldn't have cheated me out of that 12. There is also a saying in archery. If it's 99% out, then it's a 100% in.


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

Archerybuff said:


> This how I see the 12 ring scoring line. I see the arrow as out of the 12. Definitely in the 10.


It's awfully convenient how your black circle around the 12 ring is just a little bit smaller than the actual twelve ring line. And how you left off the outside edge of the twelve line closest to the circle drawn for the arrow. LOL!!!!!!!! If you were in my group, you would be relegated to a score keeper, and NOT an arrow scorer!


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## jacobw (Aug 6, 2011)

D.Short said:


> It wil be scored an 8


its a 6 for you donnie


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

well if you look at your pic.....you will let's call it deer hair between your arrow ring and the ring of where you said it hit, as to the cusp of the circle. This would mean that it would be an 8. Now...IF your arrow sucked up some of the foam, which genearlly they do, then you would probably be into the 12 by process of how the foam folds in. Best thing to do is don't over think this stuff .....

The shooter really knows if he got the line or not in most all the cases......It's up to you to be honest or not. just saying


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

n2bows said:


> It's awfully convenient how your black circle around the 12 ring is just a little bit smaller than the actual twelve ring line. And how you left off the outside edge of the twelve line closest to the circle drawn for the arrow. LOL!!!!!!!! If you were in my group, you would be relegated to a score keeper, and NOT an arrow scorer!


In the other thread I posted the official scoring method. So yes, there may have been just a bit of baiting to foster a discussion:wink:


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Archerybuff said:


> In the other thread I posted the official scoring method. So yes, there may have been just a bit of baiting to foster a discussion:wink:


first off the pic...is from last year......The rings do not look like that now ( for most of all the targets) the pic in the thread shows they do not connect so to speak.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> first off the pic...is from last year......The rings do not look like that now ( for most of all the targets) the pic in the thread shows they do not connect so to speak.


The outside connectors are still like that though.



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## archermarj (May 6, 2006)

It used to be in the rule book "If it is 99% out it is 100% in." Looks like a twelve to me. Depends on the actual arrow though and how much the foam is pulled. Sometimes you are lucky sometimes you aren't, but if that we're my arrow I would be lobbying for my well deserved 12.


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

bhtr3d said:


> first off the pic...is from last year......The rings do not look like that now ( for most of all the targets) the pic in the thread shows they do not connect so to speak.


The outside rings are EXACTLY like that. The scoring of the outside rings is going to be EXACTLY like last year. Yes I know the picture is from last year but NOTHING has changed with the outside rings or scoring of the outside rings. Thats my point! What was the bigger PIA, the outside ring, or the inside ring as far as scoring? I wasn't aware of any tournaments that scored both the center 11 ring and one of the 12 rings simultaneously. (Someone mentioned earlier that the pros scored all 3 rings during shootdowns???) If they are going to go to the trouble of changing the lines, why wouldn't they change the lines that effect the most people instead of just a few?


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

There actually was a couple of times that people hit the 11 and argued that they hit the connector to a 12. Granted it was in the lower bracket classes.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Archerybuff said:


> The outside rings are EXACTLY like that. The scoring of the outside rings is going to be EXACTLY like last year. Yes I know the picture is from last year but NOTHING has changed with the outside rings or scoring of the outside rings. Thats my point! What was the bigger PIA, the outside ring, or the inside ring as far as scoring? I wasn't aware of any tournaments that scored both the center 11 ring and one of the 12 rings simultaneously. (Someone mentioned earlier that the pros scored all 3 rings during shootdowns???) If they are going to go to the trouble of changing the lines, why wouldn't they change the lines that effect the most people instead of just a few?


Bad info. 

Pros only score 12's and 14's.

The ONLY reason for cores to have an 11 is for use in dual org clubs or shooters.

IMO, ProAM targets shouldn't have an 11 ring at all.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I agree Pro AM targets should not have the center scoring ring. If you buy a range and want to use the center scoring you will just have to burn them in...


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## 300MAG (Nov 26, 2005)

I am glad they separated the 11 ring from the 12 ring. I saw more controversy on scoring an arrow that hit the connector or where everyone thinks the connector is. The 12/10 connector is a problem to but not as much as the 11/12 connector. Especially on Sunday when the targets have been shoot up a little. Shooters were getting 12's they shouldn't have because of this grey area of scoring.
This in my opinion is going in the right direction.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

300MAG said:


> I am glad they separated the 11 ring from the 12 ring. I saw more controversy on scoring an arrow that hit the connector or where everyone thinks the connector is. The 12/10 connector is a problem to but not as much as the 11/12 connector. Especially on Sunday when the targets have been shoot up a little. Shooters were getting 12's they shouldn't have because of this grey area of scoring.
> This in my opinion is going in the right direction.


Yes, and the only way to make it more better would be make the 12 ring in a "U" fashion back to the 10 line. That's eliminate the "owl" head call that someone replied.


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