# W&W RCX17 First impressions



## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

Got around to shooting some arrows out of the RCX 17 this evening. I used a 10 strand Astroflight string I had made beforehand and set about determining ideal brace height, nock points, and how to set up the shelf. I decided upon shooting off the shelf and built it out using some furniture pads and a piece of hair rug rest. Not pretty but it works. I adjusted tiller to being even as I shoot 3-under.

Since W&W lists the brace height as 7", I twisted the string to 7" and cut loose a few arrows. The bow makes a twangy noise on the loose, but it isn't harsh. A little bit of tuning up and down with brace landed me at 6 3/4" as what sounded the quietest. Tossing on a couple beaver balls made the bow dead quiet. I normally use BowJax or Limbsavers on the limb bellies to aid in quieting things down further, but I feel this bow does not need them. 

As expected with a carbon riser, the bow is very stable and settles quickly after the shot. I hesitate to say "dead-in-the-hand" as I feel no single-stringed bow is truly without any shot reaction, but the RCX 17 certainly shoots smoothly without vibration. I pulled a few shots through the chronograph and averaged 181fps with a 380gr. arrow, pulling 42#@27". Not the fastest limbs I have shot, but they are certainly not the slowest. I would say they are easily the nicest limbs I have encountered that are included as part of a bow package. 

Is the bow worth the money? I would say it depends on what you are looking for. Surely a ILF recurve of similar size and performance can be had at a fraction of the price - especially in the used market. Like the Hoyt Buffalo, the RCX17 is very much a niche bow, but is much better equipped with standard ILF, a robust limb alignment system, a Berger hole, and excellent limbs. Honestly, I feel this is the bow the Buffalo wished it was. For a similar price, I would choose the RCX17 over the Buffalo in an instant. 

Here is a photo of a random 5-shot group at 12 yds at home:



A close-up view of my ugly, yet effective shelf set-up:


A couple photos of the riser without the grip:






One last photo of the grip-less riser:




I kind of like the "coat of arms" W&W has for this bow:


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

:mg:

I want one!


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## Cwilder (Jun 4, 2006)

Yup gonna have to buy one now


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## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

Thanks for posting the pics. Nice to see it has been tapped for a plunger.


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

Glad to see it has been tapped for a plunger ... now lets get 'em to tap some acc AMO holes ...

It does look uber sexy ... and as a flat out hunting rig ... well it just looks really really sexy .

Nice job and thanks for posting pix


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Nice bow...like your dog too...:thumbs_up


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Very nice 

Anxious to hear more


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## KennyO (Feb 5, 2003)

Wow. Lancaster's pictures sure didn't do that bow justice.... It's beautiful! Time to start saving for one.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

AWESOME! Thanks for the review!

Ray :shade:


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## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

The lack of AMO sight/quiver holes is a minor annoyance. I don't have any strap-on quivers, so I may consider epoxying on an aluminum plate to the side for a quiver mount. Or just get a nice Selway quiver. 

I am planning on taking this and my Buffalo out to the range the next time I go out for a head-to-head shoot out to see which bow I like better. I haven't shot the RCX enough to really get a good feel for it. I also have a set of Border Raptor longbow limbs I am planning on mounting on this riser. Should make for a smooth shooting ILF longbow.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

2.38# total weight...COOL! Carbon Fiber...COOLER!!


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

J-san said:


> I am planning on taking this and my Buffalo out to the range the next time I go out for a head-to-head shoot out to see which bow I like better.


Will be interesting to hear what ya think.


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## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

Finished a side-by-side shootout with the Buffalo and the RCX17. I decided to set up the RCX17 with a NAP Centerest Flipper rest as it has a Berger hole and I wanted to evaluate the bows utilizing their design features. I wanted both bows to be as similar as possible in this evaluation so they were set up in a manner to match their out-of-the-box condition as best as I could. Since I no longer had the original Buffalo string, I made another 10 strand Astroflight string to match the one I put on the RCX17 and mounted another set of beaver ball silencers. As tested, the bows' specs:

Hoyt Buffalo 60":
- 45# rated short limbs 
- 42#@27" 
- 7 1/2" brace height
- even tiller
- 2.89# mass weight

W&W RCX17 58": 
- 45# short limbs 
- 42#@27"
- 7" brace height
- even tiller
- 2.38# mass weight

Arrow (380gr.):
- Gold Tip 3555 Expedition Hunter 30" long
- 125gr. screw-in point
- 4" Gateway RW shield cut feathers 
- right helical fletch
- oriented cock feather out


I attempted to evaluate the bows as objectively as possible and drew up three categories I would touch on - physical characteristics, shooting, final thoughts. I will likely write more about the RCX17, being a new bow that few are familiar with. 


Physical Characteristics:

-Buffalo- 

Many of you are already aware of the Buffalo's construction - 19" machined aluminum riser, no AMO sight/quiver holes or Berger hole, wood grip, wood/glass limbs, flemish fast flight string, and can be paired with the Buffalo-specific 4-arrow quiver (sold separately). In my opinion, the Buffalo's construction is tried and true and it works, however, I would have liked to see at least a limb alignment system feature. The all-black Buffalo is a pretty attractive package that really doesn't break new ground in the world of traditional archery. Hoyt uses their proprietary Formula limb system that is a "love it or hate it" affair, but it gets the job done. The Formula limb butts are longer than the usual ILF limb butts and feature a 5/16" threaded bushing between the dovetail and notch for mounting weights, dampers, etc. I like that bushing and found it to be a great way to add more mass to the bow as well as custom tailor bow balance. Contrary to some reports I have read about on the forums about Hoyt customer service reps telling people the target Formula limbs will not fit the Buffalo, I can confirm that any of the F-series Formula limbs will fit the Buffalo perfectly. In fact, I have a set of F4 and F7 limbs that perform wonderfully on the Buffalo and really makes it a joy to shoot. Sadly, the included wood/glass limbs fall far short in terms of smoothness and performance. They are certainly not the worst, but they are far from the best. I think Hoyt could have done better in the limb department given the price of a new Buffalo. At any rate, my limbs were rated for 45# and were originally camo dipped. I never developed a fondness for camo and later Duracoated the limbs flat black. 


-RCX17-

W&W has been known for using carbon fiber in their risers for about a decade now if not longer. (I have a 1st generation W&W Infinite riser dating back to around 2003 that featured a 1/2 carbon/aluminum construction.) They are not the first to use carbon in a traditional bow, but they do a very good job of building a ILF riser entirely out of carbon fiber. The RCX17 is a 17" riser made of carbon fiber and has aluminum inserts/bushings to attach hardware and a wood grip. W&W has taken cues from its other risers and seems to have created a shrunken down version of its RCX100 riser for trad use. I am happy to report the riser includes many sought-after features like a limb alignment system, locking limb bolts, Berger hole, and standard ILF. The riser sports a matte carbon fiber weave finish that is very attractive and feels cool, but not as cold as metal. If I could have had a say in its design, I would have asked for a second Berger hole below the top one, a more radiused shelf, and AMO sight/quiver bushings. The limbs included with the bow are among the best I have encountered. They are a wood/carbon construction and have a very high degree of finish to them. There are no rough edges anywhere and the limb tips have their edges beveled as if to reduce air resistance. The limb bellies and backs are also finished in a matte carbon fiber weave that matches the riser. Logos are present, but kept to a more subdued level, owing to the fact the bow is more likely than its larger brothers to be used to take game. The limbs seem to be slightly thinner than most other limbs I have encountered. I did not have my calipers handy, but I estimated them to be about 30% thinner than the Buffalo limbs. All put together, the RCX17 is a very handsome bow sure to get a few looks a questions asked at the range.



Shooting:

-Buffalo-

I have owned my Buffalo for well over a year before I received the RCX17 and had gotten very familiar with it. It points well and is comfortable to shoot. I especially like the thin and low profile grip, which makes it really easy to grab and acquire the proper bow hand position for me. The thin throat helps reduce torque imparted by me, however, I prefer a slightly higher wrist grip. The draw with the included Buffalo limbs feels a bit stiff to me. Initial draw from brace is stiff, but it smooths out some mid way, and then never seems to get any better than what I have encountered with entry level limbs. It is not an unpleasant draw, but I feel cognizant of the poundage I am pulling all the way through to anchor. On the loose, the Buff makes a hearty thump sound with a little twang near the end, and then settles. Owing to the heavier mass weight, the bow does not jump much and feels quite stable during and at full draw. I particularly like having the arrow practically millimeters above my bow hand as I find it easy to point with and shoot instinctively. The Buffalo lacks any provisions for a plunger and is designed to be shot off the shelf only. The window is cut to center and I find that works very well for me. I am a fairly recent convert to off-the-shelf shooting and rather enjoy the simplicity of such a setup. The included stick-on rug rests do the job nicely, but I wore out the first set within a few months of owning the bow - possibly due to some fletch contact. Overall, the Buffalo is a solid shooter that is easy to get on target, stable in the hand, and gets the arrow down range with little fuss. The Buffalo has been my go-to bow ever since I bought it and has seen me through a few 300 leagues, trad shoots, and 3D shoots. I will say the Buff is a very durable recurve having survived a near 20ft. fall out of my tree stand without any damage. A chronograph average of 3 shots: 178fps.


-RCX17-

Being a new bow to me, I took the time to shoot a few hundred arrows with this bow to familiarize myself with it before attempting to compare it to the Buffalo. I had easily put over a thousand shots through my Buffalo by the time I received the RCX17, so it wouldn't be fair to compare a familiar bow to one foreign to me. I must admit, I am partial to carbon fiber and cool new gadgetry, so I did my best to set aside any pre-conceived bias I had towards the new toy. Setting up the RCX17, I decided to install a NAP Centerest Flipper to make use of the Berger hole. Despite my initial idea to shoot off the shelf, I wanted to make use of the features the bow presented me, but I also did not want to skew my results comparing one bow equipped with $200 worth of plunger and rest and another with pieces of stick-on velcro pad. I felt the NAP rest was cheap and simple enough to allow me to make use of the Berger hole without going too far on the tech side. 
The bow feels noticeably lighter than the Buffalo at a mass weight of 2.38# - about 8oz. lighter. It is not a massive difference, but I did notice it when pointing on target, moving to different targets, drawing, and shooting. The lighter weight made for what felt like faster movements with the bow, but the bow felt more twitchy whenever the wind blew and on the loose. The bow was slightly louder than the Buffalo, making a louder thump, but no twangy sound. As nice as the limbs were, they gave off a slight buzzing noise that did not seem to go away even if I raised the brace height to 7 1/2". Perhaps I will need those BoxJax on the limb bellies after all. Despite that, the limbs provided a much smoother draw than the Buffalo limbs. It did feel like I was drawing less poundage than what I had set. Initial draw from brace had the higher weight, but then it smoothed out more than the Buff limbs mid way and and remained so to anchor. 
There was no real vibration felt in the hand on the shot with this bow, but it did jump in the hand a little more. Lighter mass weight is nice to carry in the field, but physics will not be denied and lighter bows will react more than heavier ones. I would be nice to have had the limb butt bushings like that on the Formula system for additional mounting points for weights/dampers. The RCX17 has the lone 5/16" bushing in the usual front position below the grip. Speaking of the grip, the grip is slightly wider than the Buffalo's and has a little higher wrist, which I prefer. To me, the grip on the RCX17 is superior to the Buffalo's, but that may vary depending on the shooter. Overall, the shooting experience with the RCX17 was very good. Different feeling than the Buffalo due to different construction, but otherwise it shoots just as well if not better once I acclimated myself to the bow and elevated rest. Three shot chronograph average: 185fps


Final Thoughts:

It was really difficult (impossible maybe) to determine which bow is superior to the other. There are so many factors to evaluate, I could probably write an engineering doctoral thesis on the subject. From an average guy's perspective, it boils down to what works and overall value. Both bows retail for about the same price - $730 for the Buffalo and $750 for the RCX17 according to Lancaster's site. In my opinion, the RCX17 offers much better value than the Buff due to the number of features it offers: standard ILF, Berger hole, and limb alignment system to name a few. One can easily mix and match better limbs with the RCX17 more easily (and economically) than the Buffalo. I actually have a set of F4 and F7 limbs for my Buffalo and it shoots wonderfully with them. The bow is a completely different bow with the high-end limbs and shoots a lot better with more speed, smoothness, and quietness. Honestly, I believe Hoyt should have either gone with standard ILF or included better limbs for the Buffalo given the price. The machined aluminum riser is nothing special and ought to be even cheaper to make than a target riser, as it lacks threaded bushings for accessories. I am not an engineer so I really can't comment too much on the manufacturing costs, but given the fact that the RCX17 is an all-carbon riser and specs more features and better limbs for only $20 more, I think Hoyt could have done much better in the pricing. I do not mean to rip on the Buffalo due to the price, as many can be had on the used market for half of full retail. Given that fact, the Buffalo's value increases tremendously, especially if paired with a set of F4 or better limbs. 

The RCX17 brings newer technology to the trad world in a way. Carbon is nothing new and an all-carbon riser, while somewhat exotic, is not new either in the trad world. What W&W has done is put together a number of desired elements into a complete bow package that provides strong performance and good value. The RCX17 incorporates the features I had wished Hoyt would have included in the Buffalo - namely standard ILF and limb alignment system. The all-carbon construction certainly gives the riser a coolness factor surpassing that of the Buffalo, but it really does not outstrip it in terms of performance. Both bows easily shoot better than the person holding them, but I would say the RCX17 has an edge over the Buffalo due to the Berger hole. Once I had adjusted to the elevated flipper rest, I found myself with groups that were a tiny bit smaller than those shot from the Buffalo. I am sure a statistical analysis would prove the difference to be within the standard deviation, but I feel an elevated rest and plunger provides superior consistency to shooting off the shelf.

Being niche bows, I feel the RCX17 to be a slightly better bow due to the elements it features and the better limbs (making for a better value at full retail price).


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Excellent review and write-up J-san...and all makes perfect sense where I would imagine the 2" shorter, lighter mass weight, yet 7fps faster, RCX17 would be expected to be a touch faster and a bit livelier at the shot so your review play out well. :thumbs_up

And not that anybody is interested?...But here's what I gleaned from your excellent review....

Speaking as a just above poverty level family guy, southern ******* machinist and married father of 3 daughters?...

If I spent $730 of my hard earned on a buffalo that had no burger hole and drew like crap as compared to a $750 RCX17?...that did have a burger hole?...and was lighter, faster and had a nicer grip with a way cooler all CF build factor?...

I would have a hard time digesting the thought that...

"yeah...but if I buy a set of $500 F4 formula limbs the Buff shoots real sweet."

as a deal! :laugh:

But you are definitely to be commended on your diplomacy!

of which?...I apparently don't have much of. :laugh:

and again...great review and Thanks for posting it up! Bill. :cool2:


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Well done review...thanx!


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Nicely done.

I like the plunger as a convenient tuning tool. Of course, if you want to shoot off the shelf and have a somewhat similar, though not as elegant solution, there is the martin adjustable strike plate.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Great review 

I am heading to Las on Tuesday for a meeting if they have the Win Win riser for sale with out limbs I might bring one home


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Nice write up, thanks for taking the time.


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## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

Glad you guys enjoyed it and I hope it helps some of you who may be on the fence about getting one. Since doing that review, I've mounted my Border Raptor longbow limbs on this riser and it makes for a really nice 62" longbow. With limbs almost fully bolted down, I am drawing about 46#@27" and getting into the low 190s FPS. A tad louder than my Dryad longbow, but it has nearly 10FPS up on it. I've a few more sets of limbs to try on this riser, but so far, I am enjoying the Raptors' performance.

JP, I'll bet your Hex6 limbs would look downright killer on this riser and perform as well to boot!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

J 

I love the mass of the Phenolic Morrison I have paired with the Hex 6's right now but I have an extra set of BF's that wold do nicely


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

J 
Are there sight/quiver bushings on the riser for my Qwikee Kwivers ?

Thanks


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## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

Unfortunately not. You would need a slide-on quiver unless you are willing to try drilling and installing your own bushings.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Went over to the dreaded city yesterday to hit the beach at Crissy Field to watch the first REAL race of the America's Cup (brought my Leupold 3-9x40 Rifleman with me for a better look). After the Race rode over to the Race Village. Tapped my finger nails on the hull of one of the carbon 45' cats. Carbon (and aramids; spectra, kevlar, etc.) is a very impressive material to build with!

It is great to see archery using these materials.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Great comparison, cheers! :thumbs_up

I honestly was hoping that you would see a bigger difference between the two, found something that makes its easier to choose! I guess it comes down to ILF vs Hoyt Formula and overall length to some degree. Hoyt makes it a bit easier with the $$ they charge for their target limbs but I still don't know.

If I could get a riser on its own...


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## ftfaria (Apr 8, 2013)

J-san said:


> I had posted this on the TradTalk forums initially, but thought I would also post it here as well in case anyone is interested in this bow and doesn't visit the other forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whwre did you buy this bow? Lancaster?


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Great review and seems a winning design, I think if they took the time and talked with some customers I'm sure they would listen and make some improvements, I would like to see a 19" and 21" riser on offer sometime in the future.


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## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

ftfaria, yes, I bought it from Lancaster. 

I do hope this is just a first of several generations of the RCX trad risers. I hope W&W will have staff browsing the forums and actively collecting input from customers for future improvements. I would like to see: more radiused shelf, a second lower Berger hole, and AMO sight/quiver bushings in addition to the features it already has. 

I am contemplating placing an order with Border for a set of Hex6 limbs for this riser. The Raptor longbow limbs make a great shooting bow on this riser and with what I hear about the Hex6 limbs, I would expect to hit or exceed 200fps given the same arrows and similar draw weight.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

JParanee said:


> Great review
> 
> I am heading to Las on Tuesday for a meeting if they have the Win Win riser for sale with out limbs I might bring one home


Dude, you make being happy with the bow I've got difficult... but it's one more opportunity to rise to a challenge 

I find some joy in the refuge of *******izing the mongrel :mg:


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

J-san: Again, nice bow and nice review. This seems to be your ball...why not send W&W an e-mail, with a link to this thread?

My just be a Win Win. ;-)

17", 19" and 21" carbon risers with matching ILF limbs...Oh Yea!

Thanx again!


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## traditional1970 (Jan 5, 2009)

do you think the bushing will vibrate out or get loose over time in the carbon fiber handle?


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

wseward said:


> and 21" carbon risers


I would like that, I would like that a lot!



traditional1970 said:


> do you think the bushing will vibrate out or get loose over time in the carbon fiber handle?


Wouldn't think so.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

J-san, any new impressions on this bow now that you have been shooting it for a while?


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## J-san (Oct 12, 2004)

I find myself liking this bow more and more - particularly the riser. I have since swapped out the stock limbs for a set of TT Extreme BFs and gained a bit more speed, and it feels slightly smoother at the end of the draw. The carbon weave pattern on the BFs match nicely with the carbon weave finish of the riser - like they were meant to be. The bow equipped with the BFs and a Kanati Slim Jim Dual ARC quiver was my hunting rig this fall. The light weight sure made for an easy to tote bow in the field when I had to hike around for a couple miles and while still hunting. 
Nothing has rattled loose nor are there any odd noises after what is likely over 1000+ shots now. Since I got it, it has become my go-to recurve. While the grip isn't as slim as the Buffalo's, I like the slightly higher grip and how it fills my palm. I feel I can take instinctive shots more accurately as the bow points better. Could be just that I have gotten used to the grip as I shoot it almost on a daily basis. Still interested in trying a set of Borders' latest and greatest Hex6 limbs on this, but I haven't found anything that matches what I want on the classifieds yet and I can't afford a new set right now. As far as things have been so far, this is a great bow and I am glad to have bought it.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanx for the answer and glad to hear you like your new bow. TT Extreme BFs...cool.


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## tomah (Aug 15, 2011)

thank you for the review!


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