# So....Rumour has it....



## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Interesting!

What would be the bennifit to this? Would it help the more consistant? or penalize the few who miss a 10 or an 8 and have no way of really making up points?


Be nice to know going in...(althought I'm not at that point that it will effect me in a huge way anyways).


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## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

JDoupe said:


> Interesting!
> 
> What would be the bennifit to this? Would it help the more consistant? or penalize the few who miss a 10 or an 8 and have no way of really making up points?
> 
> ...


Just taking a guess here ...but that would probally be because thats the way the FCA score at the FCA national champs


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*Provincials*

Are we talking about july 11 and 12 at the flying feathers club???


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

I have not seen this posted in the rules any where for this year! But it would not suprise me if they did. Its just another way for those who can't judge yardage to keep those who can from getting away on them. 

Bring back the 12 ring score the way it shoud be, why shoud someone who shoots 40, 10's 5x beat someone who shoots 39, 10's and 20x when the idea is to judge the yardage as close as possible and then make a great shot. How does that reward the best archer?

Thats what happens when paper punchers write 3D rules!

May not be true, but just saying :set1_STOOGE2:


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## btmckay (Dec 7, 2003)

On the OAA webpage, under rules there is a new rules segment
dated May 26/09 that says something to the effect the middle of
the 10 is an X and if you are in it, itwill be writen on the score as 
a 10X. 
Blake I totally agree with you and feel this is a way to make
people feel better about their score when they bring the better 
shooters down because they can't score 11's(or 12's)
There is nothing more than I hate than is a tournament that scores 
only 10's(10X's)
Brian


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## Big F (Aug 20, 2004)

*from oaa site*

"3D Scoring 
Wednesday, 27 May 2009 
The center ring will score ‘X’ at the 3D Championship. The change has been adopted to keep in line with FCA rules and to allow the OAA 3D Championship to be used as a qualifying event for the FCA 3D Archery Team travelling to Italy in September (http://www.fca.ca/ex/2009/093dworldscriteria.htm for more details)."

Theres no need to change the scoring for one event just for this. If someone is interested in putting there name in for a team their score should count as a qualifier. Just subtract the 11's or 12's from the score.


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

It is true that the center ring will score ‘X’ at this year’s (and future) 3D Championship. The change has been adopted to keep in line with FCA rules and to allow the OAA 3D Championship to be used as a qualifying event for the FCA 3D Archery Team travelling to Italy in September (http://www.fca.ca/ex/2009/093dworldscriteria.htm for more details). The rule book currently posted on the OAA website is slightly out of date but all updates should be added sometime today or tomorrow.

I do offer my apologies for this news not getting out sooner. It's my fault.

On a side note, there are ways to get the rules changed so if you don't like the rules you should check out the OAA bylaws and take appropriate action instead of complaining. The "paper punchers" that are writing rules in Ontario are the paper punchers that were voted in by the membership. They also have a background in each of the diciplines of archery that are offered by the OAA, not just target.


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## btmckay (Dec 7, 2003)

Is there anyone planning on qualifing for this event. Who's footing
the bill to go. I know most of the people at the event don't care about
the Italy 3D's and if they do, do like Big F says and subtract their 11's:sad:
Brian


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## crk (Jul 12, 2005)

Sent my cheque for the oaa champs last week.
For me it was a toss up between the oaa champs or the hoyt shoot.
Wish i had known about this prior to sending my cheque.


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

I like how a dumb rule is always put in place that pisses everyone off, then you hear from the OAA and they tell you that there is a way to go about getting it taken back but you have to go through the system.

How about checking with your members before making a change that nobody wants!!! :frusty:

So what you are saying is that if I win this event I get to go to Italy on the OAA's tab? If not get rid or amend the rule now while you have time.

Here is my official petition to change the scoring back to the old 12 ring scoring and not 11 or ten. Like Big F said if you are submitting a score for the 3D over seas just do the conversion. why punish the many to suit the few!

Long live 3D :brave:


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Bow bandit said:


> How about checking with your members before making a change that nobody wants!!!


That's the way it was and the members told us they wanted the rules to be consistent with the FCA. We did it. Now the members are complaining we're like the FCA. It really doesn't matter what rules we put in place it's going to piss people off.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*att captan t*

seems your the only one who replys ... I tried to reach the vp for the international 3 d in regards to some rulings and still have not received a return e-mail ... I think you know the situation I`m talking about ... Have these rules been adopted for future reference and how do we find out... I did put my grevence in before may 15 as requested but no response.... systems NOT WORKING FOR CHANGES sorry but this is my honest opion here and I am one of the ones I hope going to Italy this sept at a cost to me I`m hearing thanks


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## thunderbolt (Oct 11, 2002)

Bow bandit said:


> So what you are saying is that if I win this event I get to go to Italy on the OAA's tab? If not get rid or amend the rule now while you have time.


It isn't the OAA sending anyone to Italy, it is one score that can be used to meet FCA criteria for being selected to pay your own way to go


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> seems your the only one who replys ... I tried to reach the vp for the international 3 d in regards to some rulings and still have not received a return e-mail ... I think you know the situation I`m talking about ... Have these rules been adopted for future reference and how do we find out... I did put my grevence in before may 15 as requested but no response.... systems NOT WORKING FOR CHANGES sorry but this is my honest opion here and I am one of the ones I hope going to Italy this sept at a cost to me I`m hearing thanks


PM sent.

The OAA's changes are here to stay unless changed by the FCA or at an OAA AGM (October 25th, 10am @ Saugeen Shafts - Peterborough).

I agree 100% that the current systems don't work well. My belief is that this comes from the organizations being run by too few volunteers who take time out of their busy personal lives for something they are passionate about just to field complaints.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

This is a difficult situation.

On the one side, you have a dedicated, very small group of volunteers who are doing their damndest to keep the association running. They are supported by another equally small group of volunteers who have been shanghaied into giving up some of their spare time (sometimes grudgingly) because the job needs to be done.

On the other side you have a large group of people who don't much care what the rules are - they just want to shoot and have fun. They have among them a small group of people who want everything done their way, but unfortunately have no interest in letting the first side know exactly what it is they want.

So, the small, hard working group does the best they can - they listen to the very few people who take the time to express their views, they do whatever is possible with their limited resources to find out what the silent majority wants, and then act according to the information that they have.

They they sit back and absorb the resultant shock wave from the people who did nothing in the first place, but suddenly seem to think that everyone should know what they are thinking.


Bottom line - the OAA follows the FCA rules automatically. That's the way the membership has democratically decided they wanted it, and it has been that way for quite some time. Everyone knows, or should know, how to go about changing that if they don't like it.

If there is a reason not to automatically follow the FCA rules on a specific case, input is accepted, there is discussion, and a fair, democratic decision is reached. 

An example - last year, the matter of raising the speed limit for crossbows. I didn't care for the 300 fps rule, I did some research, and presented a logical argument to the Board for making an Ontario exception and raising it to 350. The Board did its own research in the form of a survey on the website, listened to my proposal, and concluded that the limit should be raised. The rule was changed.

AT is not a place for "official petitions". Contact the Board according to protocol and the issue will be fairly discussed, according to protocol. In the meanwhile, you can continue to whine in public and make the volunteers who give up their time and money to run the association question the value of their efforts, and consider packing it all in and letting things go to pot.


Yes, I did go to the AGM last year, one of maybe 12 (other then the Board members themselves) from the entire province who showed up to support the association.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

As to the original point about the rule change - although I am not big on 3D and it doesn't really affect me that much, I agree with the concept.

I think someone who shoots 40 10s with 5 Xs *should* win over someone with 39 10s with 20 Xs and a 5. The first guy has 40 clean "kills" and the second guy has gut-shot a deer.

No different than indoors - 300 5X beats 299 59X every day of the year. That's archery! Deal with it. :lol:


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## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

quick question for the Captain  ..... outside of the revised scoring system is there any other thing that folks may need to be aware of prior to shooting the OAA's ie. equipment regs, max target distances etc.


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

pintojk said:


> quick question for the Captain  ..... outside of the revised scoring system is there any other thing that folks may need to be aware of prior to shooting the OAA's ie. equipment regs, max target distances etc.


There's a full summary list of changes in the rules area of the website. The only other change for 3D is around rule violations.

I will review the FCA rules again in the fall to continue to keep our rules in line.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*ok only x change*

captan t only x rule is in order for 3d for this year my arrow weight concern will not be in effect for this year am I correct please advise as this is what I see on the oaa web site link provided and THANKS AGAIN for being a voice to help us understand the new rulings....


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Stash your so full of it you can't see past the brown in your eyes!!! I am sick of hearing about the poor volunters! Just because you give your time to something does not give you the right to screw it up. By the way an 8 is still a clean kill not a gut shot! So what you would like is for outer ten to score the same as the inner ten in the target champs because it is just as easy to hit right! and your just as good as the guy who shot 59 inner to your 59 outer. 

It would not take much time to figure out that many of these rules do not make sense. I don't ever recall anyone who shoots 3D in Ontario asking to align with the FCA. They wanted the rules to follow the IBO which more archers in Ontario attend due to its close proximity, but instead we got FCA rules which did not go over well last year and yet we still have to live with them.

This rule change should have been put in place January to give archers the time to attend some of the qualifying shoots that have already gone by.

So tell me where are all of these FCA sanctioned shoots in Ontario, as of yet we have the OAA 3D Champs and a trip to Quebec we need to find four more events just to qualify. 

The oaa tournament directory has already been published so why put a rule in place that has no bearing on what will happen this year as nobody in Ontario can qualify for this event.

Captain thanks for responding, I am not saying you don't work hard but do the right thing PLEASE! :darkbeer:


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## btmckay (Dec 7, 2003)

Amazing how people complained about the rule for the speed limit of 
crossbows and the rule got changed. Now they introduce a new rule
a month and a half before the provincials and as soon it is introduced 
people are complaining so why can't it be changed? I know we are trying
to align with the FCA's but it was voted to count 11's when we changed 
to FCA's at the AGM. Why the big change now 2yrs later? I can understand
aligning with the FCA's for equipment but why scoring. How many
people are honestly contemplating going to Italy.
And I do know what it is like as a volunteer, I put countless hours in
with my club to run tournaments and conservation projects. The reason
I haven't gone to an OAA AGM is because it usually is 5+hrs away and
on a weekend I am gone hunting.
Brian


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Bow bandit said:


> Stash your so full of it you can't see past the brown in your eyes!!!


Awww, you remembered I had brown eyes! How sweet!



> By the way an 8 is still a clean kill not a gut shot!


That would be why I used the example of 39 10s and a 5. A 5 is not a kill. 



> I don't ever recall anyone who shoots 3D in Ontario asking to align with the FCA.


 I don't recall anyone who shoots 3D in Ontario disagreeing _* in the appropriate venue *_with the proposed rule change that aligned the OAA with the FCA, period. Until after the fact, that is.

Here's the thing, Blake (and others). The OAA rule to follow the FCA was passed by a majority of OAA members at an AGM as per the regulations.

Accept it by either attending the shoot and following the rules, or accept it by refusing to attend. Or try to get it changed, as per the regulations. And unless there's a compelling reason, the Board has no reason to make amendments.



> So what you would like is for outer ten to score the same as the inner ten in the target champs because it is just as easy to hit right!


 Actually, yes I would. The OAA Indoor Champs were "outer 10" for as long as I remember shooting in them, which was 1974 for the first time. I didn't see any reason to go to the inner 10 for compound a couple of years ago, and wipe out over 30 years of history and records, just because the FCA did. But that's the rule, the majority wanted it (or at least I can assume that because nobody did anything to try to change it back), so I play the game according to the rules.

Seriously, how much damage to your archery career will be done to simply write down "10X" on a piece of paper instead of "11". Or 12. Or 14. 

Blake, we live in a world that has regulations, and those regulations have to be written by men with laptops. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Big F? Captain T has a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for the 11-ring and you curse the OAA Board. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what Captain T knows: that the 11-ring's death, while tragic, probably saved memberships. And the OAA Board's, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves memberships. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want that Board, you need that Board. We use words like rule, Board, AGM. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very shooting rules that the OAA provides and then questions the manner in which the OAA provides it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a pen and paper and volunteer for the Board. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Stash said:


> Awww, you remembered I had brown eyes! How sweet!
> 
> That would be why I used the example of 39 10s and a 5. A 5 is not a kill.
> 
> ...






I can't handle the Truth!!!!!!


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## XTRMN8R (Mar 26, 2004)

*Is this OAA, FITA, FCA or What*

12 voters at the AGM...wow! How about Not holding the AGM in the prime of the archery Deer season. It would put my butt in a voting chair for sure.

And I would be voting that we get our act together. lets see...if I shoot mbr i can use a long stabalizer with pins, but only in 3D bucause indoor i will use a movable pin with a 12" stabalizer. I shoot 11's for ibo, 10x for oaa or is that now FITA?...I cna't keep track of nfaa... thank god i don't shoot ASA or I am back to 280.

Does any person out there note a tone of sarcasm?? Maybe Andrew has it right...het the hell out of 3D because the people steering this ship don't know where the frig we are going.

OK lets try this.
OAA AGM is held right after the last major summer event, we set our own rules based upon majority rule. Send out a flyer if you have to...or post it on AT, what ever. And if we are going to host a qualifier for some event that only 3 people in Canada have hope in a Northern Ontario snow storm of actually going to lets base the rules of that single event on the govorning body overseeing such event.
And then maybe we all just go and shoot...all together...knowing the rules when we show up and maybe some of the great clubs like the Wolf's Den etc will start to host some events again.

now I have to go drink my double-double and watch two and a half men.

Dave


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## Guest (May 28, 2009)

All I can say on this is that there is very few here that actually know what being the OAA President entails, listening to whinny people that couldn't be bothered to show up the AGM shouldn't be one of the them.

The membership wanted the link with the FCA and they got it.....ALL of IT. If you want it changed you simply need to put in a proposal like Stan did for the crossbows and SHOW up vote for it.

With all this discention I wonder how on earth the motion to link with the FCA passed un-appossed.

Those poor poor volunteers....at least they showed up


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## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

wow .... I cant beleive the obtuse nature of some people ... I guess its true ... people fear change ...

Stash ... I know You and I have Butted heads in the past over some silly arguements but this time I completly agree with you ...It seems to me that Bandit is a middle pack shooter that seems to think he can place if he shoots a few 11s because he dumped an 8 ... 
Truth of the matter is going to an X count is not going to effect the standings ...
If you are a top dog shooting 11s then you will still be a top dog shooting Xs ...if you are a bottom feeder on 11s ... then you will still be a bottom feeder on Xs 

The rest of Canada is on the 5 8 10 X scoring ...last I looked Ontario is in Canada (I am sure that alot of us out west here wouldnt care if Ontario went away... but that is for a differant thread )

It only makes sense to Standardize across the country ...you know like how alot of Trades are doing right now ... I know for a fact that BC has dumbed down some standards to be inline with the rest of the country and raised some other standards with respect to the Nation wide trades agreement ... really this is no differant


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## Guest (May 28, 2009)

XTRMN8R said:


> 12 voters at the AGM...wow! How about Not holding the AGM in the prime of the archery Deer season. It would put my butt in a voting chair for sure.
> 
> And I would be voting that we get our act together. lets see...if I shoot mbr i can use a long stabalizer with pins, but only in 3D bucause indoor i will use a movable pin with a 12" stabalizer. I shoot 11's for ibo, 10x for oaa or is that now FITA?...I cna't keep track of nfaa... thank god i don't shoot ASA or I am back to 280.
> 
> ...




By your tone Dave I will fully expect you to run for OAA President and have ALL the appropriate rules ready at the next AGM to be voted on and have nobody complain.

And by the way we use to have the AGM as part of the Provincial championships infact we had 2 of them each year, one for target/field and one for 3-D and guess what yes thats right we very few there aswell and the majority of the membership didn't want the AGM as part it...... yep thats right they voted to have it when we did the schedualing.... so when do we host it September is out gone scouting, Oct,Nov,Dec out gone hunting, Jan is out to close after Christmas Feb is out shooting indoors how about March na just getting the fishing gear together maybe May nope turkey season, June na getting the 3-D gear going July, August well certainly not during the outdoor championship season.

OR maybe just maybe we take 1(one) day out of our entire year and show up and show some interest


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## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

Sean McKenty said:


> All I can say on this is that there is very few here that actually know what being the OAA President entails, listening to whinny people that couldn't be bothered to show up the AGM shouldn't be one of the them.
> 
> The membership wanted the link with the FCA and they got it.....ALL of IT. If you want it changed you simply need to put in a proposal like Stan did for the crossbows and SHOW up vote for it.
> 
> ...



Sean ... even tho I am not in Ontario ... 
Thanx for putting up peoples Crap ... I know its a hard thing sometimes 
Its nice to see there are others around that care about the Future of 3D as a target game in this country...


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Bowzone:

Actually, Bow Bandit is a pretty decent 3D shooter and can score a mean target round too (as I'm sure he will tell you himself if you ever have the pleasure of meeting him :lol. 

I can see his point on the scoring and one could argue either way. But whatever sport you play you have to have rules and any change in the rules isn't always going to make everyone happy.

I'm sure there are golfers who would claim that the guy who shoots 9 birdies, 8 pars and a quintuple bogey for a 68 is a "better" golfer than the guy who scores 5 birdies and 13 pars. But 67 beats 68.

Or the football team that scores 3 TDs is a "better" team than the one that makes 8 field goals. But 24 beats 21.

And so a 3D shooter with 39 10s with all Xs, and one 5 is "better" than the guy who scores 40 outside 10s, but 400 beats 395.


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## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

Stash said:


> Bowzone:
> 
> Actually, Bow Bandit is a pretty decent 3D shooter and can score a mean target round too (as I'm sure he will tell you himself if you ever have the pleasure of meeting him :lol.
> 
> ...


Fair enough 
Regardless ... when i was located in Alberta we had the same arguement ....and held a few shoots scoring 11s and took an entire season of scores with xs and converted them ... some places changed but not by much ... there was no drastic changes ... and the places that did change ... the shooters involved constantly swapped spots anyway .... ie: a guy that constanly was 4th to 6th stayed 4th to 6th it did however change from 1st to second on occation but never from 1st to 4th for example 

Its hard to convert 11s to xs from past scores unless you see every card but easy to convert xs to 11s ...for example 

buddy shoots 198/200 with 10X that converts to a 208 .... ok you are still "up" but not really because the score scoring 11s is actually out of 220 

If people want to count 11s .... its not a hard concept when they see the final score sheet


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

:grouphug:


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Bowzone_Mikey said:


> wow .... I cant beleive the obtuse nature of some people ... I guess its true ... people fear change ...
> 
> Stash ... I know You and I have Butted heads in the past over some silly arguements but this time I completly agree with you ...It seems to me that Bandit is a middle pack shooter that seems to think he can place if he shoots a few 11s because he dumped an 8 ...
> Truth of the matter is going to an X count is not going to effect the standings ...
> ...





I hope to get to that "middle of the pack" some day!


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## russ (Jul 29, 2002)

The ABA had the 11 ring scoring for a couple of years (I think it was 2)

Guess what, same people at the top of the leader board. Didn't make a lick of difference. 

Bandit boy, if you shoot a 5 don't let yourself implode - after all if you're as good as they say you are - there's a good chance you're not the only one thats gonna hump up on that target. So here's my advice, quit railroading the volunteers and shoot on shot at a time. 

It's a game for chris-sakes, 5 years from now NO ONE WILL CARE WHO WON literally. Not a sole, only little ol' you. Life's to short to worry about this LITTLE crap. 

Now children go and play your game for what it's meant to be. FUN and if you can't have fun and see the necessity of harassing organizers and volunteers. Go away, quit, stop ruining our sport we don't want you! Take up golf and throw your little baby hissy fits there instead.


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

Bow bandit said:


> Thats what happens when paper punchers write 3D rules!
> 
> May not be true, but just saying :set1_STOOGE2:


The FCA 3-D subcommittee, made up of Elected 3-D representatives from each Province made the decision to mirror as closely as possible IBO rules(you know, that 3-D organisation in the states...the one with the most members, biggest shoots...etc etc) The OAA chose to follow FCA rules. Every member association of the FCA has a constitution. Please take a moment to read yours(its likely on their website) It will show you how decisions are made in your organisation. If you feel stongly that things should be different, than there will be a way to have your voice heard. Last I checked whining on archerytalk wasnt in any Provinces constitution. ;-)



CLASSICHUNTER said:


> seems your the only one who replys ... I tried to reach the vp for the international 3 d in regards to some rulings and still have not received a return e-mail ... I think you know the situation I`m talking about ... Have these rules been adopted for future reference and how do we find out... I did put my grevence in before may 15 as requested but no response.... systems NOT WORKING FOR CHANGES sorry but this is my honest opion here and I am one of the ones I hope going to Italy this sept at a cost to me I`m hearing thanks


There is no "VP for International 3-D". Your email was refered by the FCA VP International(who has absolutely nothing to do with 3-D), to the FCA VP 3-D, who has everything to do with 3-D. Again, before you continue to talk about how you are so wrongly done by, please refer to the FCA constitution and bylaws. There you will find that the "voting members" of the FCA are its board, which is made up of Directors at large, and an elected representative from each Province. These are the people who vote within the FCA. These are the people who get a say in discussions on motions. That is not to say that they/we/me are ignorant of public opinion, but that there are policies in place for governance within the FCA, and those policies will be followed. The notion that any organisation is held to the majority of its members on all thigns is a dream of those who dont understand how the world works. There is no successful organisation/nation/company that is governed by the majority of its members for all decisions. Most are governed by representatives chosen by its membership. These representatives are entrusted by the members to make the decisions that need to be made. 

Not wanting to belabour this, but I would ask anyone who thinks they have it all figured out, please put your hand up and get involved. That is not to say that you need to run for an executive position, but you need to get involved. Many times once involved you will see that things arent nearly as cut and dried as you thought before. It is one thing to sit on the Internet and say how it should be done. Its quite another to sit down at the table, listen to all sides, and get what needs to be done completed. I have been on both sides of this, as I have been known to let my opinion be heard in the past. :embara: Unlike many, I put my hand up, and am working to achieve the things that I believe are important for archery in Canada. At present I am looking after 2 positions on the FCA exec. I sit on numerous committees, I run a successful archery club and indoor league. I have organised numerous FITA events(20+ this year alone), major events, National Championships, and yes, 3-D shoots. I have been a member of the FCA Executive for the past 3 years, served on the Executive of the ABAM for 8 before that. I am a current member of the Canadian National Team, have won 15+ National Championships in every discipline, and coach several other very successful archers.
I am not stating this to brag, but more to make the point that before you go thinking that decisions are made by uninformed beaurocrates who dont know how things are/should be, you should know who is involved. You should also know that just like here, we hear all sides of every debate. Not everyone gets their way all the time. Thats how things work, sometimes its black and white. Sometimes its grey and we need to find a middle ground. And sometimes thigns do get screwed up. But make no mistake, there is not one member of the FCA board, its committeess, or its Executive that isnt there to make things as good as possible for its members. 
I dont wish for my response to be taken for more than it is. If there is one commonality that we all share, its a passion for archery. At the end of the day, its just arrows. The same people usually win. The guys that normally have a good time, have a good time. The guys who are bitter about the world...are bitter about the world...it is what it is, such is life.

I know this was about the OAA< but some posts touched on other things. Pardon the interruption.:darkbeer:


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Well I can only hope to get out of the middle of the pack some day but for now here I am. 

Stan sorry for the harsh words but it sucks when something I used to love becomes a fight at every other tournament due to constant rule changes. You where there this winter when one came up and I still don't remember getting a call from the OAA judge who was wrong for an APOLOGY!!! I have to show up with several bow set ups to make sure I have the legal equipment with me. 

I guess with over 300 3D tournaments under my belt in a very short 9 or ten years, I thought I new something about the sport or earned a right to have an opinion about what happens in the OAA since I have been paying dues that long too.

I have been to an AGM before and spoke up before, let me tell you not the easy pleasent experince you make it out to be. Sean maybe if people new about a major change such as aligning with the FCA before the meeting more would attend, but I for one did not get that memo! Sean I thought there used to be some pride that went along with the OAA having different rules than the FCA?

All I want to know is why can the board adopt a rule at any time but when the members dont like the rule we have to wait a year (which can be costly for some of us middle pack archers) to get changed. You admit some of these rules are flawed so use your presidential powers and get them changed now.

I know being a volunteer is a thankless job but don't hide behind it when something goes wrong! admit the mistake and work towards fiixing it. I would love to help out with the board but as you can see I am just a middle pack shooter and not very politically correct.

Bowzone I hope to see you on the course in Ontario one day so I teach you just how much that 11 or 12 can add up! But for now you can hide out west under the FCA.

Russ, its just game is right! untill you get beat because lord knows what rule got in your way or some thing was blocking the target and you scratched because someone was talking while you were shooting and you scratched a target. Don't preach to me about fun because I have been there and done it and seen all the fun you speak of.

I can see why people leave this sport if you speak up your wrong and if you don't speak up your wrong! Anyone want to buy some archery equipment I have a new boat calling my name.


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## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

Bow bandit said:


> Bowzone I hope to see you on the course in Ontario one day so I teach you just how much that 11 or 12 can add up! But for now you can hide out west under the FCA.
> 
> .


But they dont add up tho thats my point ...everyone shoots the same course whether its out of 200 or 220 
the person that shoots 200 15X is still goona beat the guy that shot 200 5X 

if some shoots 198 19X ... should lose because its obvious that person could not hold it all together for all 20 targets and he dumped an 8 ...if he shot a 200 19x .... ya he would rightfully win 
11s scenario would dictate the guy that dumped an 8 would win as his score would be 217 to the more consistant 215 of 200 15X 

In my opinion rewards should be for consistancy ... not a few lucky shots 

but I am just a ******* from out west


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

I see your point but you cannot say he is better than the guy who shot 10 more x's the ten ring is huge compared to the x sure under FCA rules a 200 1x beats a 198 19x but does that make sense! not at all, the better archer is obviously the one who keeps it in the super kill so why not reward that archer for his or her efforts. 

Everyone makes a bad shot from time to time I think its great if you have the chance to nuckle down and make up some points if you have the skill to do so. I can't figure out why this is so hard to see.


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## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

its not hard to see your point either ... and beleive me I do see it... I am merely triing to show everyone both sides ... Both systems in my opinion have their merits 

honestly I care less what the OAA does ... But I do recall at Nats one year some from ONT (and other places) were *****ing about no 11/12/14s 

I would like to see scoring standardized across Canada ..... and if you wanna count 11s ... its pretty easy math to make 11s 

the best idea I can think for a win win is to score xs for the FCA qualifier for Fita 3d worlds 
(4 local shoots plus provincial champs and then Nats) then at the end of rounds add up Xs and turn them into points if you wish 
198 19x for a 217 beats a 200 15x for a 215 total score ....

If i were running a shoot out there and thats what my members wanted I would do it that way


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## btmckay (Dec 7, 2003)

One problem I have is as Bow Bandit points out, if you make a bad shot
or have equipment failure on a shot you can't catch up is our point.
Last summer I was shooting a tournament with 10's only, one target I 
shot a 5 because my nock came apart in flight and I lost the tournament
by 4pts but I shot more 11's than the other guy Enough for the win
Now this was at fun tournament so it didn't totally matter but what would of happened if this was at the provincials?? (Yes I know I should have checked that nock). 
Also at the provincials I witnessed someone have an equipment failure for a 0 but because of 11's he was able to keep up and maintain his
third place standing.
But as xtrmn8r points out why not have a questionaire at the provincials
or where ever to get peoples opionon, or list proposed changes before 
changing something to get peoples opionon.
Yes as people we don't like change but as members of the OAA we have a
right to voice our opionons and as the AGM is 6 months away this is the 
only place to voice our complaints with a change that happened out of the 
blue that most of us 3D's had no knowledge of.
Brian


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## cheaplaughs (Mar 27, 2005)

*getting rid of equipment*



Bow bandit said:


> Well I can only hope to get out of the middle of the pack some day but for now here I am.
> 
> Stan sorry for the harsh words but it sucks when something I used to love becomes a fight at every other tournament due to constant rule changes. You where there this winter when one came up and I still don't remember getting a call from the OAA judge who was wrong for an APOLOGY!!! I have to show up with several bow set ups to make sure I have the legal equipment with me.
> 
> ...


i will take the sentinal:cheers:


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## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

there's alot of great points here by all :thumb:

first off, a quick thanks to the OAA board for their countless hours of service and dedication to the sport :thumb:

now, for all those that aren't willing to sacrifice a day in your treestand to attend the AGM ..... you have/had the opportunity to be part of change, it's been what 3 years now since the change, so honestly it's no one elses fault but your own if you don't like what gets passed by the board and membership. 

Not that long ago the OAA was a simpler archery association, clear defined rules, catagories, etc. etc. etc. but folks wanted change :zip: they were tired of the "old guard" running the show, so instead of showing up to just petition the speed rules, and the use of long stabilizers in Bowhunter Unlimited, the proposal to adapt FCA rules and regs was brought forward and passed. :noidea:

Not that I have anything against the FCA but I feel adapting the entire system was a mistake, but it also aligns us with the rest of Canada so I guess it's the best for us in the long run ..... but then that's just my personal opinion. :embara:


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*Att x 24*

Seems if I use the wrong positions name my e-mail to whom ever I should not be answered???? Please if you read the rest of my post it says that I showed concern before the 15 th of the month... there was a group of previous e-mails in regards to my LEGITIMATE concern.. I was directed by someone in the oaa to do this ... Guess WHAT STILL NO RESPONSE ANY BODY HOME .. I tried to be nice and gracious here but your personal attack to the members here seems out of place ... Yes you are a volunteer... but did you mention I think 30 cents a km to travel to the meetings... Like I said in previous posts I am one of the few I guess that are going to Italy AT MY OWN EXPENSE why not show some respect and listen to the masses and maybe have the meetings in nov so rule changes come before a shooting year... Seems we ALL HAVE VENTED on some issues here... I think as said before we supplied e-mail addresses on our memberships and if a rule change is coming up there must be a way to flag the enrollment of such ...I have no computer savy so I don`t know... thanks again for listening


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## wellis1840 (May 29, 2005)

Very entertaining and informative discussion here. Thanks guys. All of my questions have been asked and answered. Points brought up from both sides have been clearly explained. Much appreciated!

Cheers,

Bill


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## q2xlbowhunter (Dec 28, 2004)

I Don't want to bash anyone on here and the rule change either way will not effect the outcome usually the best archer wins, but I think that the oaa should align itself for 3d anyway with the organizations that have been doing it for yrs, they have been through the same arguments alot of us have seen here, if it went IBO rules at least for speed and scoring I think most would be happy not all but most, it seems to be working for the IBO there national numbers were up at the 1st leg and even at the state level numbers are good 150-200 shooters, I know we can't compete with shooter numbers but if you didn't have to check a rule book everytime you left the house and the rules were standerdized with one of the bigger organizations, we might see an increase in shooters, whatever the rule lets get it done and leave it alone for a few yrs.


Chris.


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Captain I was wondering if the OAA looked at the ripple effects of this change as well, such as the other two legs of the Triple crown are they now too only 10 ring scoring. I know that every year there are several close scores in every catigory due to the fact that archers can come back from one bad tournament and make a run a the gold. without the extra points available I think you will only bring down attendence at what is usually a great event.

Secondly the Grand Championship which is mostly comprised of several target events and one 3D. The extra points in the 3D was a way to balance out scoring for some of the guys who do not regularly shoot target. If you had the ability to shoot over 800 at the OAA it allowed you a chance to be competitve against the guy who can shoot a 1380 FITA as you know this is where the majority of points in the Grand championship comes from.

I know I have to wait untill the AGM! but for now this is all we have and my garage sale may be complete before then and my membership gone to the south for good.

Thats all I have :vom:


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Some great points made here. Everyone has to shoot the same tournament and at the end of the day the best archer will win. One point though is that Ontario being a big place it is hard to make it to the AGM. With the busy lives and the price of gas that is a real killer. The OAA board has to make the best decision they can with the imput they get. 
What would be nice is if the FCA aligned with IBO scoring since the IBO equip. rules are used, but its x's instead of 11's and that was the decision of the day. Get over it and accept it.


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## cdhunter (Feb 4, 2006)

and so the all about me's of archery speak up. Province to Province things are the same regardless of discipline. The superstars show up for the shoots complain about the format and vanish when any work has to happen. I don't shoot 3d so I will reserve comment about the scoring issues, however regardless of of shooting discipline volunteers make our sport happen. From the governing bodies down to the people who pick up the trash and look for lost arrows after the event is over, without them we would all be shooting in our backyards. Is the system perfect? far from. But crapping all over those that work to create level playing field after listening to the few that could even bother to show up at an agm is pretty selfish. I personally know xs24-7 I also know the time he spends outside of his family trying to promote the sport. I understand the frustration that goes with trying to get an answer to a question when nobody seems to be listening. 
With todays technology more so than ever we have the ability to express our views, ideas and wants long before our brains can stop the what would be verbal diarrhea from spewing out all over our key boards and out in to cyber space. I've learned the hard way that pen and paper or that thing that graham bell invented I think it's called a telephone still work and still are the most effective way of communicating, if you call the wrong person they usually can help you find the right person. If you take the time to write a letter and use a stamp response may not be instant but it usually finds it's way to the proper desk because you have taken the time to care the person recieving it usually will the respect and consideration to return that message.


Now to all those that take the time to volunteer across this country to help keep this sport alive and healthy. Though it never seems like it most people appreciate your contribution and realize with out it there would be nothing. So thankyou for your time and contributions it's appreciated.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Bow bandit said:


> Well I can only hope to get out of the middle of the pack some day but for now here I am.
> 
> Stan sorry for the harsh words but it sucks when something I used to love becomes a fight at every other tournament due to constant rule changes. You where there this winter when one came up and I still don't remember getting a call from the OAA judge who was wrong for an APOLOGY!!! I have to show up with several bow set ups to make sure I have the legal equipment with me.
> 
> ...


If you scratch on a target because someone is talking, that's on you! You made the bad shot, not the person talking. You need to be able to block out the talking mentally and just shoot. Try coming down to the NRA High Powered Rifle Silhoutte Championships. 40 rifles going off for two sets of five shots for 2.5 minutes/set of five, at one time, all day, for four days straight! Each shooter has a spotter that is talking to them the whole time. 

I figure that most of you archers would fold up into the fetal position after the first set of 5 shots, and go running home to Mommy telling that you pee'd your pants and missed 3 of your first 5 shots because someone was talking and it was too loud.

You and I do seem to agree Blake, that these rules just seem to pop up when ever, where ever, and get passed through as fast as chit through a goose, and changing them back to what the masses seem to want is like pulling teeth. 



Bow bandit said:


> I see your point but you cannot say he is better than the guy who shot 10 more x's the ten ring is huge compared to the x sure under FCA rules a 200 1x beats a 198 19x but does that make sense! not at all, the better archer is obviously the one who keeps it in the super kill so why not reward that archer for his or her efforts.
> 
> Everyone makes a bad shot from time to time I think its great if you have the chance to nuckle down and make up some points if you have the skill to do so. I can't figure out why this is so hard to see.


So by this logic Blake if I shoot a 298-59X on a 5-spot to Stan's 300-5X, I should be the winner? What about if I shoot a 1410 to Dietmar's 1405 on the FITA field one day out of the blue. Is he still the better shooter? Not on that day he wasn't! How about if I shoot a 555 on a field round to Jesse B.'s 554? Is he still the better shooter? Not that day.



btmckay said:


> One problem I have is as Bow Bandit points out, if you make a bad shot
> or have equipment failure on a shot you can't catch up is our point.
> Last summer I was shooting a tournament with 10's only, one target I
> shot a 5 because my nock came apart in flight and I lost the tournament
> ...


The *best* shooter does not always win. Whoever wins the tournament that day because of the rules that are in effect, *IS* the best shooter that day regardless of there total shooting skill level.

Equipment failures are part of the game or any game for that matter. Yes it is unfortunate, but, if you loose because of it, that's just the way it is so suck it up.


This is to the OAA:

Regarding this latest rule change. The 3D scores using the 11 or 12 ring scoring could have been easily converted over to 10X counts without changing the rule. That's how the 10 Ring Championships are done, only in reverse. Count all your X's for the day and add that to your score at the end. It's easy enough to do it for that shoot. Why could this not have been done for 3D shoots that need to be scored 10X vs. 11 or 12? :noidea:

Why could the OAA not have sent out a letter to all it's members (or an email) stating that this is a proposed change to the rules. In that letter could have been a poll or a "yes" or a "no" series of questions as to whether or not this is what the membership wants. Members could then send in there replies/answers via mail or email. Otherwise, I think that the rules set at the start of the year should be the rules we all play by for the *whole* year.


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Bow bandit said:


> such as the other two legs of the Triple crown are they now too only 10 ring scoring.


That is correct. Each leg is X 10 8 5


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Moparmatty said:


> Otherwise, I think that the rules set at the start of the year should be the rules we all play by for the *whole* year.


That's my fault. I didn't get word out sooner because I really didn't have the desire to listen to all the complaints that I knew would come from this.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

*Really nice CaptainT!*



CaptainT said:


> That's my fault. I didn't get word out sooner because I really didn't have the desire to listen to all the complaints that I knew would come from this.


:mg:

Nothing like shooting yourself and the OAA B of D in the foot!

Remember my comment above about B of D's not doing what's in the best interest of the organizations or companies that they control/run? I think you just proved my point! 

You basically just stated that You and the B of D railroaded this 3D rule change through because you didn't want to hear the complaints/comments of the membership. By saying that, you are stating the the OAA B of D and yourself couldn't give one pinch of **** chit what the members have to say whether good, bad or indifferent. That kind of statement doesn't present itself very well for you or the OAA B of D.

Up until you made that statement I was fine with paying my membership. You now have me seriously concidering whether or not I will continue to do so. I hope that others are also rethinking that decision as well after your comment. I know what you're thinking, "Who cares if he renews as a member"? Just remember that without are paid dues there would be no OAA.

Perhaps that what you and the B of D wants. :noidea:


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Lots of complaining now but watch; volunteers #'s won't increase, people still won't go to AGM (I've never been but I'm not whining), and people will still complain when they get their way. 
I don't blame you one bit Captain T.


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## thunderbolt (Oct 11, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> This is to the OAA:
> 
> Why could the OAA not have sent out a letter to all it's members (or an email) stating that this is a proposed change to the rules. In that letter could have been a poll or a "yes" or a "no" series of questions as to whether or not this is what the membership wants. Members could then send in there replies/answers via mail or email. Otherwise, I think that the rules set at the start of the year should be the rules we all play by for the *whole* year.


Didn't the OAA send out something to all of their clubs well over a month ago stating what was happening with the scoring and why it was being done? I know I heard about this near the beginning of April at a club meeting...:zip:


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Here's the deal. I don't actually get a say in what the B of D does. My vote only counts if there is a split. Do I like this X vs 11 rule - no - I don't ever remember saying that I did - I don't like scoring inner 10 in indoor - I don't like that divisions are going to be dropped - and there's a lot of other rules I really don't care for. If I did have a say I would have left the X/11 as is. 

Part of my roll is to make sure that the items the board does decide to do actually get done. What we do comes from input from our stake holders - the members, the Government of Ontario, the FCA. The other part of my job is to listen to the complaints - and there are plenty of them. Over the last 2 1/2 years I thought i've done a pretty good job of that (Supplying targets to the OAA 3D Champ, IFAA Indoor shoot, Rule alignment, making sure the OSG actually happened, actually holding board meetings, getting the OAA to a point where we're not totally reliant on the Government funding that is drying up, I could keep going). Anyone who thinks they could make the OAA run better really should try.

This wasn't railroaded through. The process starting in December or January. The part that's my fault is not getting the news that it had gone through out sooner.


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## Guest (May 28, 2009)

We sem to go round and round over the same thing, you can have all the opinions you want, if you don't ACT on them nothing will get done, the link up with the FCA was known for 2 years previous if you listened. If you want something to get adopted you simply need a coherent reason that all can understand and be prepared to answer pointed questions on it. The OAA used to have very simple 3-D rules its own ages and equipment rules aswell, but a few archers that travelled saw that we were different than most, when those archers show up to an AGM and the rest just sit back things get changed.

The automatic rules changes I fully agree with since this now only requiers a board approval as aposed to waiting a year to impliment as it sits now target/field (both IFAA and Fita) have World wide standards for their archery games, 3-D is still after all these years mulling around with rules and the reality is that very few of the voting membership attend these events outside of Ontario, our rules of the past were a combination of IFAA and ASA rules only simpler but we always heard the argument that if we only had the IBO speed rules there would a great number of new entrants, well guess what we did just that and NOTHING happened, we took the argument away and they just made up a new ones.

The remedy to all your problems is to get involved and all it takes is one day out of your year if that is too much to ask, maybe another sport is your answer

I can certainly say that Adam is doing a great job and is certainly much more polite and calm than I was when I was in his spot, I never took this crap from anyone and always had a list of people that were at the AGM's and if you can complaining your name had better be on it, if you didn't care to show up I didn't care to listen to you.


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

OK guys none of this is was designed to pick on or discredit the people who take time out of their busy lives to keep the sport alive, but if a bad decision is made why should we have to live with it! 

Its a hole lot easier told hold a vote now than people let on, we do have this great invention called the internet most of the members have a computer and look at what is happening on the OAA web site as far as tournament scheduals go. so that being said how hard would it be to hold a poll before making a change like this mid season. I have seen other polls on there recently.

I can tell you the response on here would be "hey guys go to the OAA web site and place your vote on a mid season rule change that may affect you, this is your chance" and then the OAA has the backing of the majority and can make an informed decision. 

This could be a way to avoid all nonsense about not attending the AGM for minor changes such as this. 

Also the IBO is an international organization and should be recognized as one, especially when we in Ontario are neighbours.

Please do not lump 3D with target scores as they do not compare thats why there are so many different forms of target archery. Pick your favorite! If you like them all great! The archer who can lay the smack down and hammer X's when needed is alway the better archer. 

Thanks to those whom this applies that have responded. I am sorry this does not count as involvement in your sport Sean! I am only on here to complain because I don't have anything else to with my time and I am trying to ruin the one thing I have been doing steadily for a decade. I am sorry my passion for the sport does not translate on paper as well as I would like but my attendance at local tournaments should.

The middle pack archer!


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## DODGE-3D (Feb 17, 2005)

I with you on this one Blake.


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## btmckay (Dec 7, 2003)

I won't deny or take away the hard work Adam or the board do, like I said
I volunteer alot of my time at my club and know what its like when someone 
complains that isn't at meetings.
Was this rule change started at the AGM or was it something that happened
afterwards? 
If we are following FCA rules why isn't there a 8.5 power limit for 
binos
Brian


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## Guest (May 29, 2009)

Bow bandit said:


> OK guys none of this is was designed to pick on or discredit the people who take time out of their busy lives to keep the sport alive, but if a bad decision is made why should we have to live with it!
> 
> Its a hole lot easier told hold a vote now than people let on, we do have this great invention called the internet most of the members have a computer and look at what is happening on the OAA web site as far as tournament scheduals go. so that being said how hard would it be to hold a poll before making a change like this mid season. I have seen other polls on there recently.
> 
> ...




And it will mean nothing if you don't act on it. When push comes to shove its all a numbers game nothing more, a poll on the web site is fine and all but will you be there when the votes are counted????. If the board takes a recomendation from a poll it will still need to be ratified at the AGM, so you can shoot under a set of rules only to have it fail there if not enough supporters show up,even if you send a proxy vote a person can only carry 3(may have changed) so supporters need to be there.

it is mind boggling how simple it is and so many never use it.

I too have attended a few local and a few not so local tournaments in my day as well along with few years on the OAA board, when an issue came up either for or against I made sure I was there


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## Baldini (Mar 7, 2005)

Maybe what we should do is adopt an inner 10 scoring system similar to indoor target. Instead of 10x for the center, we'll call what's currently the x a 10, what's currently the 10 an 8, what's currently the 8 a 5 and what's currently a 5 a 1, because you certainly don't deserve 5 points for wounding an animal. That scoring would reward the consistantly excellent archer and truely separate the men from the boys.


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## russ (Jul 29, 2002)

Baldini said:


> Maybe what we should do is adopt an inner 10 scoring system similar to indoor target. Instead of 10x for the center, we'll call what's currently the x a 10, what's currently the 10 an 8, what's currently the 8 a 5 and what's currently a 5 a 1, because you certainly don't deserve 5 points for wounding an animal. That scoring would reward the consistantly excellent archer and truely separate the men from the boys.


Why not go one further and use a hunter round. 5 for kill 0 for miss and -10 for wound! Get back to the basics. I'm sure someone will find fault and fail to realize that the rules are the same for everyone and the cream will still miraculously rise to the top!


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## H.M. Murdock (Nov 13, 2005)

btmckay said:


> If we are following FCA rules why isn't there a 8.5 power limit for
> binos
> Brian


Because I didn't like the rule. Instead of complaining about it on AT, I sent a proposal to the OAA to have the rule changed


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## Baldini (Mar 7, 2005)

Well, since the furor over 11s seems to be dying down, let's attack the concept of letting traditional shooters have 2 arrows for the price of 1. I'm sick and tired of watching trad shooters getting to shoot 2 arrows and not having to pay for both. If you're going to let them shoot 2, charge them twice the shooting fee! If they actually manage to hit the target with both, they do just as much damage with each arrow, but more likely they're just holding things up by spending twice as much time out behind the target looking for twice as many arrows!


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## russ (Jul 29, 2002)

2 arrows? 10x binos?

Huh?

I thought you guys had adopted the FCA rules :lol:

Jeez you guys move to Alberta or something? Ya sure have that cowboy attitude. Yeah, there's rules but they're for everybody else :lol: either that or y'all learned to play pool in a small town bar.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*att baldini*

bruce be careful of what you say about those trad shooters even with 2 shots and only in pq is this the norm we have to wait twice as long for the open and compound shooters to just get ready to make the shot... lol lol OH AND BY THE WAY ISN`T THE PICTURE OF DANNY D on at WITH AN ARROW IN THE APPLE AT THE RHINEHART TOURNY ISN`T THAT YOU ABOUT 20 YDS BEHIND THE TARGET LOOKING FOR YOUR ARROW FOr 10 MINUETS ...... HOLDING EVERYBODY UP seems you have more misses per tourny than the trad shooters I shoot with lol lol look in the mirror first oh ya don`t you brag about the 65 lbs that you pull everytime we see you do more damage than my 38 lb recurve lol lol


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## Guest (May 29, 2009)

russ said:


> 2 arrows? 10x binos?
> 
> Huh?
> 
> ...


We adopted the FCA rules as the baseline, we have a couple things in Ontario not in the FCA rules namely crossbows and the use of bino's of any power. Both these have no real relavence when traveling to FCA events since one isn't offered and the other is in print for all to see before going, in our rules we have italized sections that differ from the FCA just as the FCA has with Fita. There is nothing wrong with adding items indicative to each province


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## russ (Jul 29, 2002)

Sean, 

I guess it's just a bit interesting to see how things evolve. In Alberta we had templated our rules off of the IBO for years with exceptions. Unlike Ont. though the FCA's Nationals have been viewed as an important event and as time went on we found that we were not doing our archers any favours by deviating from the rules of the national body (ie, the FCA) as a result we adopted the policy that sanctioned events for the ABA. In a way I suppose it became a necessity since we have 3 different associations, all running their own 3D events and sharing the same pool of archers. (the 3DAA being a member club of the ABA btw). As the ABA went forward we had also found that we were spending an inordinate amount of time at AGM's discussing 3D speed limits, scoring ring sizes and other things. The problem being of course is that the ABA is also the primary bowhunting advocate in Alberta. Whilst, issues of scoring may seem important in our competitive lives, many of us came to be competitors due to our hunting activities. I guess in the end it became easier for the ABA to divest itself of the rule making responsibilities and just let the FCA have that responsibility by proxy. This end result is that the ABA has been able focus on more pressing issues like Sunday hunting and OTC cougar tags for the Calgary bowzone rather sweating over the life ending issue of the X vs. an 11. 

Anyway, in conclusion all I'm going to say is that I think that it may be better for the OAA to just let the rules be run by the National body so that the executive can focus on more pressing issues such as low membership and organizing more events. Both of which in my opinion are far more important to the association than niggelling over a point or the colour of the stakes or whether or not an umbrella can be used . Don't get me wrong, the rules are important but they're the same for everybody.


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## Guest (May 30, 2009)

The main thing is that the real international bodies IFAA and latley Fita have different sets of 3-D rules and ideals on how World Champioships operate compound this down to the National bodies that use those rules which may or may not have any relavence to their own country let alone Provincial level. When the OAA brought in a set of standard rules for 3-D the senior age started at 16 the rational was that you can get you hunting licence then you can shoot the longer distances then as well, that lasted a few years then the parents said no showed up to the AGM and got it changed.

We are lucky here as we do not have other organisations to contend with and most see the benifite to have one organisation but it take more effort to keep the things you want, what most don't seem to grasp is that you can litterly loose it all by not paying attention and or showing up when the votes are cast.


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## mhlbdonny (Jul 15, 2008)

*rule changes*

I found a way to get around all the oaa b.s. 4 or five years ago. I am no longer a member, no longer belong to an oaa affiliated club, and no longer shoot at clubs that use oaa rules. It's been a lot more fun and I don't have to listen to a bunch of whiners. Yea, I know, you probly dont like me anymore. Thats ok. the trad guys don't like me either cause i went wheely.


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## Baldini (Mar 7, 2005)

We may not like each other, and we may not like the rules, but everyone has to love a Big Wheel!! I heard there was an adult version that was out... That would be a pretty sweet ride... Especially around a 3-D course...

Is there a rule that disallows caddies? Tiger has a caddy. Mike has a caddy. I'm lazy. I want a caddy too.


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