# Bareshaft and Fletch Paper Tune



## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

Fletching contact it sounds like, I don't papertune so can't help with that, waste of time and paper in my opinion, I eyeball my rest set my nocking point by my bubble level with just a tad downward angle, then walkback tune the FP out to 60-80yds then broadhead tune, takes me about 30 mins tops and I tune bows all year long for people and never have any bad issues unless someone that knows nothing brings me a bow and is trying to shoot .500" spine arrows in a 70# bow lol


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## BoNarrow (Oct 17, 2010)

Thats what I was thinking also, but if I adjust rest to get fletched hitting bulletholes, my bares have a nock low tear???


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

Hmm tricky situation, someone here will have a solution for you I am sure


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Apache drop rest I can't see fletching contact, but.... One, don't bare shaft tune past 8 feet. I want just to know the arrow is coming out of the bow cleanly. I then switch the fletched shaft. Ragged hole then possibly fletching contact. If just high, low or left or right I adjust the rest for a good tear, not necessarily a bullet hole. If any tear at all I'd perfer nock high of 1/4" or so.
They call it Walk Back tuning, but; After this I shoot up close, 9 or 10 feet, and sight in on a vertical line. Sighted in, I go back to 30 yards shoot for the line using the same sight setting or pin. If dead on center shot is good enough for most practical reasons. If a bit left, move rest a bit right and start over. For a bit right, move rest left and start over. Arrow hitting the line at 10 feet and 30 yards you're good to go.
If wanting to tune for both field points and broadheads then use the chart of the link; http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1845077


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## gofastd (Mar 2, 2009)

When I bare shaft tune I add some electric tape to the rear of the arrow to account for the weight of the fletchings. I first weigh a fletched arrow, and then I add tape to the rear of the unfletched arrow until it weighs the same as a fletched one. I don't know if this will help, but its worth a shot. I have had good luck with this method.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Apache drop rest I can't see fletching contact, but.... One, don't bare shaft tune past 8 feet. I want just to know the arrow is coming out of the bow cleanly. I then switch the fletched shaft. Ragged hole then possibly fletching contact. If just high, low or left or right I adjust the rest for a good tear, not necessarily a bullet hole. If any tear at all I'd perfer nock high of 1/4" or so.
> They call it Walk Back tuning, but; After this I shoot up close, 9 or 10 feet, and sight in on a vertical line. Sighted in, I go back to 30 yards shoot for the line using the same sight setting or pin. If dead on center shot is good enough for most practical reasons. If a bit left, move rest a bit right and start over. For a bit right, move rest left and start over. Arrow hitting the line at 10 feet and 30 yards you're good to go.
> If wanting to tune for both field points and broadheads then use the chart of the link; http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1845077


Hey Sonny, why do you say not to bare shaft tune past 8 ft? I usually bare shaft through paper to at least 12 ft, because with no fletching to correct the flight, the farther you go back the more the arrow will continue on the path that it left the bow. When I get perfect bareshaft holes, I don't have to adjust anything to get broadheads and field points to hit together (knock on wood). Just curious.


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## wacker stacker (Feb 2, 2006)

Your vanes are probably contacting the rubber snubber that cradles the arrow on the shelf if it is installed. Shoot cock vane out if your vanes have much helical. Get a bare shaft bullet hole and try indexing the arrow different[cock vane position].


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> Hey Sonny, why do you say not to bare shaft tune past 8 ft?


Sonny pays the bills setting up and tuning bows, and I've swapped many emails with him over time. If the shaft is going in straight at 8'-10', the shaft has reached the point where it starts spinning. From that point on, the shaft will go where it's pointed. Most of the time. The exception is fixed blade heads. Looking at several years of BH tuning threads, and the input of several tuners who have a lot of experience, BH tuning is an extension of planing shaft. Sometimes it's really not possible for some combinations, for some shooters. 

I don't think there's a rule though for any reasonable distance. And it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. To me, the acid test is whether a BH shoots to the same POA as a field tip. It's the same principal as walk back tuning, but I find it more sensitive to bias.


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> Hey Sonny, why do you say not to bare shaft tune past 8 ft?


Sonny pays the bills setting up and tuning bows, and I've swapped many emails with him over time. If the shaft is going in straight at 8'-10', the shaft has reached the point where it starts spinning. From that point on, the shaft will go where it's pointed. Most of the time. The exception is fixed blade heads. Looking at several years of BH tuning threads, and the input of several tuners who have a lot of experience, BH tuning is an extension of planing shaft. Sometimes it's really not possible for some combinations, for some shooters. 

I don't think there's a rule though for any reasonable distance. And it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. To me, the acid test is whether a BH shoots to the same POA as a field tip. It's the same principal as walk back tuning, but I find it more sensitive to bias.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> Hey Sonny, why do you say not to bare shaft tune past 8 ft? I usually bare shaft through paper to at least 12 ft, because with no fletching to correct the flight, the farther you go back the more the arrow will continue on the path that it left the bow. When I get perfect bareshaft holes, I don't have to adjust anything to get broadheads and field points to hit together (knock on wood). Just curious.


Setting center shot is a personal perference. Walk back tuning is usually quite sufficent for hunting or 3D. For Outdoor Target and Field I perfer French tuning.
Personally, I think it's pretty dumb to tune for both field points and fixed broadheads. Most shoot their hunting bows for practice or 3D. Hunting season comes and I shoot nothing but broadheads and make dang sure they're dead on. If lucky, my deer tags are filled readily and it's back to field points. So one month of hunting I ain't worrying about broadheads hitting with field points when shooting indoor or 3D for the rest of the year.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Setting center shot is a personal perference. Walk back tuning is usually quite sufficent for hunting or 3D. For Outdoor Target and Field I perfer French tuning.
> Personally, I think it's pretty dumb to tune for both field points and fixed broadheads. Most shoot their hunting bows for practice or 3D. Hunting season comes and I shoot nothing but broadheads and make dang sure they're dead on. If lucky, my deer tags are filled readily and it's back to field points. So one month of hunting I ain't worrying about broadheads hitting with field points when shooting indoor or 3D for the rest of the year.


I know what you are saying, and I wasn't trying to imply that were wrong in your statement. I was just asking for clarification on why you said not to go past 8 ft. There are all kinds of different ways to tune a bow, and there are all different beliefs and theories about what a "properly tuned bow" should be, as well as many different types of archery. There are people who don't really care about what a paper tear looks like (poor arrow flight) as long as the bow groups good, and then there are people who like to achieve that perfect flight of the arrow. For a target shooter, a perfect paper tear may not be where he/she gets their best groups or scores. For some, it may very well be where they get their best groups or scores. For a bowhunter, I like to tune for perfect arrow flight because more times than not, perfect arrow flight = same POI for broadheads and field points. Many bowhunters out there don't like to have to resight their bows to go hunting, nor have the knowledge to retune their bow for hunting season, hence the popularity of mechanical broadheads. "Flies just like a field point" right? Personally, I think that it's pretty dumb to tell other people that their method of tuning is "pretty dumb" if that's what yeilds the best results for them. 



TMan51 said:


> Sonny pays the bills setting up and tuning bows, and I've swapped many emails with him over time. If the shaft is going in straight at 8'-10', the shaft has reached the point where it starts spinning. From that point on, the shaft will go where it's pointed. Most of the time. The exception is fixed blade heads. Looking at several years of BH tuning threads, and the input of several tuners who have a lot of experience, BH tuning is an extension of planing shaft. Sometimes it's really not possible for some combinations, for some shooters.
> 
> I don't think there's a rule though for any reasonable distance. And it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. To me, the acid test is whether a BH shoots to the same POA as a field tip. It's the same principal as walk back tuning, but I find it more sensitive to bias.


I think that you are talking about fletched shafts. I don't think that a bare shaft has much spin to stabilze flight. Although, with fletched shafts, I still paper tune from 6 ft to 21 ft, and I have found that the arrow still hasn't quite stabilized even at 21 ft.

I respect Sonny for the help he gives here, and I wasn't saying that he was wrong. I tune a few bows, here and there, too, but I'm not too proud to try and learn something new either. I don't think that you can ever know too much, so I was just looking for the reasoning behind the statement, because I thought that I might pick up something that I didn't know. 

I'm not saying that bare shaft tuning and walkback tuning can't yeild the same results if done properly, but I'm personally not a big fan of walkback tuning. If you sight in your windage, dead on, at the farthest distance that you shoot then begin walkback tuning(after you have bare shaft tuned) I'll bet that you don't have to change the rests position. 

I know that this isn't an exact apples to apples comparison, but it's the same principle as sighting in a rifle. You don't sight a rifle in at 10 yds and then walkback to 100 yds changing the barrel position to change POI. The bullet is leaving the barrel dead straight (like a paper tuned bare shaft), and if you sight in at 100 yds, then your scope will be on at 10 yds as well. But if you sight in at 10 yds, and start walking back, you may be off 1" at 50 yds, and 2" at 100 yds. In archery this tells us to move the rest, but we don't move the barrel of a rifle to compensate for that. At close range, there is more room for error, the arrow/bullet may be hitting where we are aiming even though we are holding a little left/right, because it hasn't been in flight long enough to see that we are not holding dead straight.


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## BoNarrow (Oct 17, 2010)

Well I finally figured it out. First I paper tuned bare shaft, getting pretty consistent hole. Then shot fletched through paper, and again a severe nock high. So I sprayed foot powder on shelf and rest. The material on the launcher arm wont let the powder stick though. I shoot and no evidence of contact. I then decided, what the heck, I jerked the material off of the launcher and shot paper again. WOW!!!
It wasnt perfect but dang close. That fuzzy material had to be contacting my arrow. I adjusted to get even results with both shafts. A slight nock high. Then shot both shafts at a target to adjust windage and left to right. Screwed my NAP HELLRAZORS on and with a touch of the rest to the right she was bang on. I know the material isnt that thick on the launcher but it makes all the difference on my setup. Big thanks to everyone who posted and helped me get through it. I really feel that I have a very well tuned bow thanks to this site.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> I know what you are saying, and I wasn't trying to imply that were wrong in your statement. /////
> ////I respect Sonny for the help he gives here, and I wasn't saying that he was wrong.////


I took no offense whatsoever. Each person, as he or she gets into archery, finds what works for them and so it should be. I just dislike newbies taking on "super tuning" practices when simple gets the job done. I guess I mean I don't want newbies or those starting to tune on their own getting scared off.
And I don't mean to offend anyone who wants to tune point of impact for both field points and broadheads, but come hunting season my bow is sighted in for broadheads regardless of what field points do.

And if wanting super tuned broadsheads TMan51 has done some pretty awesome stuff. 300 fps and pin point accuracy with fixed broadheads is pretty awesome.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> I took no offense whatsoever. Each person, as he or she gets into archery, finds what works for them and so it should be. I just dislike newbies taking on "super tuning" practices when simple gets the job done. I guess I mean I don't want newbies or those starting to tune on their own getting scared off.
> And I don't mean to offend anyone who wants to tune point of impact for both field points and broadheads, but come hunting season my bow is sighted in for broadheads regardless of what field points do.
> 
> And if wanting super tuned broadsheads TMan51 has done some pretty awesome stuff. 300 fps and pin point accuracy with fixed broadheads is pretty awesome.


I didn't mean to sound offended, although after I reread my response, it does sound that way, and I apologize for that. I know that both of you guys are probably great tuners, and as I said I respect you and all of the advice that you give here on this forum. I have two bows right now setup to hunt with, a D350 and a PSE Evo 7, both bows are shooting 302 and shooting lazers with fixed heads at the same poi as field points. I do understand the simplicity factor when it comes to new tuners as well, as too much information when just starting out can be overwhelming and it takes time to learn all different aspects of tuning a bow, and arrow flight is just one aspect of the tuning process. But if someone is willing to put in the time and work to learn about it, I believe that it pays off in a big way, and one way to learn is this great site. Where else is there this much information and good tuners in one spot? So anyways, keep up the good work bro.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

No apology necessary.


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> I think that you are talking about fletched shafts. I don't think that a bare shaft has much spin to stabilze flight. Although, with fletched shafts, I still paper tune from 6 ft to 21 ft, and I have found that the arrow still hasn't quite stabilized even at 21 ft.


Actually I'm talking about bare shafts, but it's not well stated. My purpose shooting a bare shaft, is to get the bow adjusted to the point where the flight is straight, and to point of aim, far enough from the bow to get spin stabilization from the fletching to occur. I do my own bare shaft tuning out to 30', as past that I have not seen any advantage. Even then, I often need a correction for BH flight. I always check fixed blade flight to at least 10yds farther than I would take a shot in the woods.

Tuning is an individual preference routine. Personally, I never bother with paper tuning, or walk back tuning, as my own routine eliminates the need for that. Some guys have the opposite opinion. One thing that does occur to me, is that a fletched arrow that isn't stable at 21' is an indication something is off.


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

I bareshaft through paper up close, 2-4 yards to see how my shaft is flying. I will also shoot them at 20 yards to see how they group compared to fletched shafts to fine tune the center shot if neccessary.

Getting good bareshaft tuning results is very dependant on your form, your ability to duplicate each shot. Arrow spine and spine consistency is very important to get dependable results. One must be open minded and willing to make the proper changes in draw length, form, arrow selection and grip placement to get the best results.

Some bow designs are better than others when it comes to bareshaft tuning. Having the bow set to give it's best nock travel really makes a difference. Cam 1/2's need to be creep tuned for the most consistent bareshaft tuning. Single cams need to have the proper cam position to achieve the best results. Dual cams like the older bows or the newer binary cams are easiest to bareshaft tune imo do to the nature of the cams. Lower brace height bows are touchy and some bows have a lot of cable gaurd/roller riser torque that can make bareshaft tuning very difficult. Always take these things into consideration and use some common sense.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

TMan51 said:


> One thing that does occur to me, is that a fletched arrow that isn't stable at 21' is an indication something is off.


I agree 100%, this is exactly the reason that I tune to that distance. When you get the arrow leaving the bow perfectly straight, the arrow doesn't need much stabilization from the fletching. So, it actually should be stabilized well before it gets to that point, when shot from a well tuned bow. But in the tuning process, I start at 6' and go to 21 ft, checking at multiple distances in between. By doing this you are eliminating the chance of the arrow just happening to be straight at that one distance that you are shooting.


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## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't paper tune but I can see here that bare shaft tuning *assumes* no contact. Trying to get a bare shaft to group with a fletched shaft that contacts would be a large waste of time. Try to learn something every day.


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