# Dark Knocks and Sportmenship



## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

No! It's not your responsibility to mark the 12 ring for them. However, I won't shoot black on black unless others in the group want to. It's not for their benefit, it's so I can see where I hit!


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## SaltLakeArcher (Aug 6, 2008)

I am fairly new to shooting 3D tournaments, but have spent a fair amount of time here reading about this issue. I have seen some people say they would NEVER shoot in a group with someone using black out arrows. I don't understand this, they talk about it like it is cheating. I agree, it is not someones responsibility to mark the 12 ring for the others in the group. If you are dependent on someone else to give you an aiming point don't you have other things to worry about than what color of nocks the other guy is using? Sure, it would be nice to have a couple of guys fling some lighted nocks in the target ahead of you for a reference point. But, in my opinion believing dark nocks are underhanded is wrong.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

bamajk said:


> I shoot my first 3-D tournament last week and had a great time. I was shooting arrows with blue knocks while my competitors were shooting bright colored knocks. I found my self aiming at their knocks when they centered the 10 but they could not do the same with my arrows because you could not see the knocks.
> 
> Is it un-sportsmen like to shoot dark colored knocks?


No. Not an issue with sportsmanship.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

SaltLakeArcher said:


> I am fairly new to shooting 3D tournaments, but have spent a fair amount of time here reading about this issue. I have seen some people say they would NEVER shoot in a group with someone using black out arrows. I don't understand this, they talk about it like it is cheating. I agree, it is not someones responsibility to mark the 12 ring for the others in the group. If you are dependent on someone else to give you an aiming point don't you have other things to worry about than what color of nocks the other guy is using? Sure, it would be nice to have a couple of guys fling some lighted nocks in the target ahead of you for a reference point. But, in my opinion believing dark nocks are underhanded is wrong.


I suspected that someone was chasing my arrows, or "nock hunting" last season(a stranger we invited to shoot along). I missed a few close, but high deliberately just to find out. After confirming it with 3 shots I put one back in the center just to see him miss low. He never said a word, but he looked at me like it was my fault that his score went down.

I'f you're chasing someone else's arrows then you ain't the better shot.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Shoot what you brung. If someone worries about your nock color, like someone said before, they have issues that need tending to.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

I would rather shoot at a clean (nock free) target, bright nocks, even in the 11 ring, distract me.

So please bring in the blacked out arrows.

I went to Blacked out arrows because it keeps me from trying to see my shot.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

bamajk said:


> I shoot my first 3-D tournament last week and had a great time. I was shooting arrows with blue knocks while my competitors were shooting bright colored knocks. I found my self aiming at their knocks when they centered the 10 but they could not do the same with my arrows because you could not see the knocks.
> 
> Is it un-sportsmen like to shoot dark colored knocks?


I bring both brightly colored nocks and black nocks. If a shooter in my group only has black nocks and the rest of us have brightly colored, I will shoot the black nock when the shooter with blacked out arrow's shoots after me. Otherwise I shoot my bright nocks. A bright nock on a shadowed target provides an advantage whether it's in the kill zone or not, it is a visual reference for holding steadier. Anybody who want's to play the stealth game everyone else can play it to.

It is really quite funny when shooters that bring only stealth arrows start complaining when other shooters shoot ahead of them with a stealth arrow when they have bright nocks in their quiver as well. Although the only place I see people complaining about stealth arrows who do shoot bright nocks is here on AT and at the club outside of the tournaments. Seems the only ones' I see complaining during a shoot are the ones I mention in the first sentence of this paragraph. This is what leads me to believe that it's not really about "oh I like black colors" and "I get distracted" and more about what I said about having a steady aim reference. If it's because you get distracted, just shoot first everytime.


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## whitetail101 (Aug 10, 2007)

I use the blacked out arrows for all of my tournament shooting. I don't feel that it is unsportsman-like to use them.

The reason I use them is that at an IBO shoot, the MBO shooter goes first(me), and I don't want to give anyone an advantage on thier shot.

I have had experience with other shooters who upon seeing someone hit the x-ring they zero in on that arrow and deliberately try to put thier arrow in the same spot, resulting in your arrow getting beat up.

My feeling is if you can't find the x-ring without someone elses help, then keep practicing, you'll get it eventually. As for the nock hunters, follow my first sentence, as the x-ring on most 3D targets is plenty big enough to avoid hitting another arrow(I don't mind if I'm hit on accident, but the one who looks at the target and makes the comment "gee, thanks for the reference mark", is the one I'd like to stuff his bow and arrows where the sun don't shine)


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## panther08 (Jan 7, 2008)

I would like to say if you put your arrow in the middle of the x ring, its fair game. That is how it is if you dont like your arrows getin broke then dont shoot x's. lol just my opion shoot blacked out or bright colors if its in the x its gettin shoot at:darkbeer:


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## WVBowhunter10 (May 15, 2006)

I want them to shoot at my arrows. I am shooting pin nocks so if they want to go after it that is fine cause they may find themselves somewhere other than the x or 10....lol


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

Think of it this way... Shoot your stealth arrows and intimidate everyone else in your group to do the same. The rest of us on course will shoot bright nocks highlighting the kill zone for each other, give a high five to the guy that bust's the bright nock in the 11 ring with another bright nocked arrow, and go lunch with him after the tournament. 

So, go ahead and try to make sure only the people in your shooting group of 4 or 6 shooters have the most challenging shooting circumstances.


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## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

I use Black nocks from time to time. I love to shoot at and breaks others when they pin wheel a 10 ring......:darkbeer:


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

In most situation other then mixed staked groups, it all comes around. There are as many times as not where a bright nock is a distraction and draws you away from where you want to hit. Your focus just can't break away. 

This past weekend we shot with a new guy looking for a group. With about 5 targets left he put a nice arrow in the ten on a tough target and my buddy robinhooded it. It was cool to watch, and the guy was tickled pink as he had only seen it done on TV.

I say worry about making your own shot and not the other guys equipment. he or she isn't makeing your shot for you.


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## AllTheRage (Apr 29, 2008)

*Great post rodney482*



rodney482 said:


> I would rather shoot at a clean (nock free) target, bright nocks, even in the 11 ring, distract me.
> 
> So please bring in the blacked out arrows.
> 
> I went to Blacked out arrows because it keeps me from trying to see my shot.


I agree.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

rodney482 said:


> I would rather shoot at a clean (nock free) target, bright nocks, even in the 11 ring, distract me.
> 
> So please bring in the blacked out arrows.
> 
> *I went to Blacked out arrows because it keeps me from trying to see my shot*.


+1...but who cares what nock anyone shoots...just go and shoot your game not theirs.


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## mws65 (Jul 23, 2003)

I just made up a Doz. so that I could not see them. Black nocks with Flex Fletch vans in Phantom. No distractions in the target. I might take them to the shoots or just shoot them at the house thats what they were setup for.
Mike


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

I shoot for fun and don't care what anyone shoots. I shot only my second ever IBO event this last weekend although I have shot informally for years. I shot white nocks with 2 white vanes. When we got grouped up the other 2 guys had black/black and I thought, uh oh, these dudes are serious.

If I put one in the center of the 11 I could care less if they trashed my arrow because I was happy with my 11. I know my buddy was grateful to have a good aiming point a few times since we believe in the "aim small, miss small" theory and hard to aim smaller than a nock.

About 1/2 way through the course we came to some tough targets that I've never shot before and my bino's did not pick up the vital ring. One of the black/black guys changed to his white/white and lit it up for us. I considered that a very friendly and sporting gesture that I won't soon forget. Granted we were shooting in different classes and scores weren't going to cost you lots of money but it was nice. FYI, both black/black guys were very nice to shoot with.

I'm still about archers helping archers even in the midst of competition. Kinda like helping up the running back that you just put on his butt.


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## jtd_75 (Jan 7, 2009)

i have only shot one 3d at a local range, and one shooter in our group did but he shoots open a, so who really cares, shoot your own game!


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## builditall (Mar 24, 2006)

I have both white fletch/red nock and black/black in my quiver for outdoor shoots. For indoor shoots around here (30 yds and less) I use dark green fletxhing and red nocks. It all depends on who I am shooting with.

It comes down to this, If you give me a mark I will give you one (if possible) If you don't want to give me a mark then you won't get one either.


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## 3-D Junkie (Sep 13, 2005)

How about, letting a guy shoot what he wants? I don't care what anyone shoots. How about making everyone shoot the same bow, draw weight, length, and all. This is rediculous.

bamajk, shoot what you want to shoot. Don't worry about anything but your shooting. This blacked out arrow issue is just an attempt for people to place blame for their sub-par shooting, on someone other than themselves.


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Not to hijack but...*

Is it unsportsmanlike to shoot major 3D shoots with FOB's?


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## Witchy1 (Jul 10, 2006)

I usually shoot black nocks with black and red vanes. I started doing it because it matched my bow. LOL. However, the dark nocks and vanes helps to keep me from watching my arrow or from peeking. I could change colors, but I like what I shoot. I don't think it's unsportsmanlike. Shoot what you want to shoot. It does bug one of the guys we always shoot with so of course I will keep shooting that set-up just to mess with him - all in good fun which is what it's all about.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

jwshooter11 said:


> Is it unsportsmanlike to shoot major 3D shoots with FOB's?


Only if you are going to whine, and cry when they get busted up.:wink:


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## camoham (Nov 3, 2004)

dont care what color nocks or fletching are.

im a happy camper if im in a 10 ring.

i think bright stuff distracts.

camoham


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

its your choice as is theirs what arrows, wraps or colored nocks to use, shoot your arrows and if you hit one then oh well, it happens!!


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## camoman30 (Aug 26, 2008)

panther08 said:


> I would like to say if you put your arrow in the middle of the x ring, its fair game. That is how it is if you dont like your arrows getin broke then dont shoot x's. lol just my opion shoot blacked out or bright colors if its in the x its gettin shoot at:darkbeer:


i like it when people chase my arrow if its in the x ring cause i shoot a bright pin nock we shoot low 12s and if they hit my arrow it usually puts them in the 8 or the 5 low it might cost me 50 cent for a new nock but its worth it to see the look on there face they dont chase my arrow very much anymore since i went to pin nocks


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

Nobody shoots at my arrows. Not if they want to score well anyway :embara:


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

2005Ultramag said:


> Only if you are going to whine, and cry when they get busted up.:wink:


That's what they said in Florida and nobody even hit one!


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## Luckiduc13 (Nov 1, 2004)

I just like the look of a blacked out arrow! But If someone shoots black to hide the arrow, then thats fine too. Who cares???!!!! Thats just silly and in my book chasing somebody elses arrow is cheating anyway! We all should shoot blacked out bullets!


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## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

*Yesss!!*



jwshooter11 said:


> Is it unsportsmanlike to shoot major 3D shoots with FOB's?


This more of an issue then blacked out knocks!!

I would make the guy shoot last every time in my group! 
the guy shoots a 12 and it blocks the whole 12! Not to fair when i make a prefect shot and get blown out for a 5 cuase there is a huge chunk of platic in my way!


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## NerdHick (Aug 20, 2006)

rodney482 said:


> I would rather shoot at a clean (nock free) target, bright nocks, even in the 11 ring, distract me.
> 
> So please bring in the blacked out arrows.


+1 I hate seeing other arrows in the target, if they are in the 8, guess where my arrow is going to go!?


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

Kale said:


> This more of an issue then blacked out knocks!!
> 
> I would make the guy shoot last every time in my group!
> the guy shoots a 12 and it blocks the whole 12! Not to fair when i make a prefect shot and get blown out for a 5 cuase there is a huge chunk of platic in my way!


Yeah, well you just keep shooting those pin nocks! By the way, you have a better chance of getting sucked into the 12 with me than you do of getting kissed out! If you shoot pin nocks and you do hit it just right and get kicked out, I have absolutely no sympathy for you!


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

IMHO it is poor sportsman ship...


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## george myers (Dec 28, 2005)

i shoot with 3 guys who shoot traditional class that like my 3 color fluorecent fletch and my white nocks,however they do wreck my arrows from time to time.i can't imagine that fletch and nock colors have anything to do with sportsmanship.i never saw any rules any where that even mention eqipment or accessory color.


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## NerdHick (Aug 20, 2006)

Sith of Archery said:


> IMHO it is poor sportsman ship...


Care to explain why? I'm just trying to understand what some may think I'm doing wrong...


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## promod1385 (Oct 3, 2007)

Sith of Archery said:


> IMHO it is poor sportsman ship...


Hey if you thinks its poor sportsmanship then go shoot in a genre where nock color is not an issue. I shoot black nocks at black targets, i shoot white nocks at white targets, hell i have even shot brown nocks at brown targets.

It is part of the 3-d game, deal with it.


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## mbeason (Sep 27, 2007)

*Unsportsman....NO WAY!!!!!!*

I have shot black on black for awhile and even went as far as painting the g-nock bushings as well. I shoot with some guys that used to nock hunt for fun but ended that as soon as I went with black/black/black. It just was getting to expensive to not to. But I really don't see how it could be unsporting unless you expect them to show you where to shoot.


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## mathewsgirl13 (Mar 12, 2007)

Well I shoot black pin knocks with pink fletchings... but some of the other post on here I agree with...

Shot your own game... bright knocks distract me too!


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

The person who complains about your nocks are the ones who are acting unsportsmanlike.


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## NocBuster (Jan 5, 2009)

I hate it when somone use my arrow as an aiming point so much that I sitched to solid glass arrows this year. Yep sollid glass. I also use clear nocks and my own homemade glass fobs. you should see the look on there faces when they shoot after me. They delibritly miss the 12 ring so they dont bust my arrows and have to buy me a beer


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## heelsfan413 (Feb 2, 2009)

I mean really, how is that poor sportsmanship? Shoot what you have, shoot your game and some people are never going to be happy no matter what you do.. your there to shoot a target for YOUR best score not theirs..


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## Tracker52 (Jan 19, 2009)

If your arrow is in the high scoring rings, there is good possibility of it getting hit when 3 more arrow will be flying in the same area. It is also true that if there is a bright nock in the 8, it will suck you there. Some guys will always shoot with the same group and have to first person mark the ring with a bright arrow first ever time. So basically this argument could go on for years.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

it's a game use the advantages you have, some like a real bright nock and fletchings as they think it can also make people screw up.....there are no rules against it, so shoot whatever colors you want,.... i will be using pink this year!....:wink:


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## panther08 (Jan 7, 2008)

Like i was saying if your arrow is in the right spot dark nocks or bright nocks there is a high chance its goin to get hit. 4 arrows in any X ring is goin to be a tight fit which in most cases means that most likely someones arrow got hit. So that why i said if you dont like broke arrows dont shoot good that is the truth! i went though at least doz arrows last year but they make more everyday i shoot to win if that cost me arrows then ill take that loss. LOL


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## arrowslinger#1 (Jul 6, 2006)

I shoot black nocks and fletching, I also use other shooter's bright nocks as references when they are there. You should take every advantage you can.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

arrowslinger#1 said:


> I shoot black nocks and fletching, I also use other shooter's bright nocks as references when they are there. *You should take every advantage you can*.


Proof right here that Dark nocks is not good sportsmanship. Sportmanship is not the same thing as competitiveness. 



> _sportsmanship (uncountable)
> 
> 1 the behaviour exhibited in playing sports, either good or bad
> 2 the good attitude/behaviour displayed by players of a game; *fairness,* determination, winning or losing gracefully _


I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't do it, but what I AM saying is that using stealth arrows is most definitely NOT "GOOD" sportmanship, (it may not be "bad" sportsmanship but most certainly isn't good sportsmanship) and don't fool yourself or anyone else into believing that you are being fair to your competitors by doing it, as is evidenced by this statement...


> I also use other shooter's bright nocks as references


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

NocBuster said:


> I hate it when somone use my arrow as an aiming point so much that I sitched to solid glass arrows this year. Yep sollid glass. I also use clear nocks and my own homemade glass fobs. you should see the look on there faces when they shoot after me. They delibritly miss the 12 ring so they dont bust my arrows and have to buy me a beer


pics or it didn't happen.


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## Duckhawk_2008 (Jun 15, 2008)

Alright, the name of game is 3D archery right! It dosent matter if you have a freakin rainbow colored nock or black sooner or later you arrow is gonna get hit or your gonna git one! Big Deal!

I shot with guys last weekend that aimed at my nock and I could care less, Hell that is the price of admission. 

Stealth arrows HA HA HA HA HA HA HA I'm gonna piss on myself laughing at that comment. Go and buy you a set of binos if you are having trouble seeing a "STEALTH ARROW"

If there is an arrow in the 11 or 12 ring and I am up to shoot I am goin for it, hell what am I gonna do drop points b/c i don't wanna hit there arrow, I will tell you go for hit mine, knock it out if you got the skills!

If you wanna cry about this topic then maybe you should shoot spots, then you got no competiton on your target face!


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

It is funny when somebody shows up with "stealth" arrows and isn't any good 

Around here there seems to be a certain stigma attached to the black nock folks. I shot with a guy in MS who used black nocks and he was a great guy; he just liked the all black look. I really don't care what my group shoots as long as they are coureous to each other when we are shooting and like to have fun. A jerk is a jerk regardless of arrow colors. A good guy is a good guy even if he blacks them out.


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## mbeason (Sep 27, 2007)

archerm3 said:


> I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't do it, but what I AM saying is that using stealth arrows is most definitely NOT "GOOD" sportmanship, (it may not be "bad" sportsmanship but most certainly isn't good sportsmanship) and don't fool yourself or anyone else into believing that you are being fair to your competitors by doing it...


How is it bad sportsmanship???? You can still see a blacked out arrow with binos but not when looking through your peep. I use it so it isn't distracting to others when I make a bad shot. I tend to pull towards arrows that are close and bright colored but I can't help but look at them when I am lining up my pins. That should be bad sportmanship due to the bright colors standing out like a sore thumb and messing up my routine....By the way who crapped in your cereal bowl for you to carry on like this.


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## bearhunt (Jan 16, 2008)

*never works for me*

Even if use a black on black, if I put it in the x, they still shoot at it. My solution has been to put them in the 8 ring and let them aim for that. Mind you while their scores go down some, mine go down faster. hmm may have to change that strategy.


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## Bowbuster (Dec 9, 2004)

I play my own game........ I could careless what color anyone is using, bright, black it's all good.. If someone puts a bright arrow in the 12 ring, you can bet your arse I am aiming at it. If they put a black one in the 12 and i cant see it, you can bet your arse i am still aiming for it.. It's the 12 ring and that is what i am aiming at, period!! 
I view 3D kind of like golf, it's a personal game that challenges you to make a good shot.. I will do what ever I can to make a good shot, kind of block out all the others in the group when i am shooting. That's is one of the reasons i like to shoot first............:wink:


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## arrowslinger#1 (Jul 6, 2006)

I think you said it best, I am a competitor. If not, I would just shoot in the back yard. That would be like a race car driver just letting people pass?? Its crazy


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

I don't understand why it matters so much what I shoot or you shoot. What do you do when you are first on a target and have no other arrows to look at? I shoot black nocks so I'm not trying to cheat up and see the arrow in flight. But call me unsportsmenlike or whatever, cause while you are concerned about my arrows ill be taking your money


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## mattawamkeag (Jan 16, 2007)

Bright, black ...stealth, whatever. If your bright nock is in the X I'm obviously going to see it. I'm trying to put my arrow in there as well, not blow you up. If your stealth arrow is in the X, I'm still going for the X regardless of whether or not I can see it. Robin Hoods are rare, more than likely a nock gets dinged. Although, I was in the group in front of Grnmtn. when they had that one. Great to see! Right down the pipe.

That being said, we DO go nock hunting on occasion. I shoot with the same tribe almost every weekend and sometimes, if scores are in the toilet, we turn a frustrating day back into a lot of fun by arrow chasing. It takes your focus off your score and puts it back on hitting a point of aim. Obviously, we don't do that to people who have never shot with us before. We treat them and their arrows with respect and hope it's reciprocated. But arrows are going to get jammed, it happens.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

black fletching and black nocks here. I do care a white nock for complainers and shoot it when I shoot after them.:wink:


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## ramboarhunter (Jun 5, 2006)

Is it bad sportsmanship for me to use bright fletching and flo. green PIN nocks. If you want to hit my arrow it will probably cost you points because the pin nock will deflect your arrow but it won't cost me an arrow because it is extremely hard to robinhood an arrow with pin nocks.
Think about it.
Charlie


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

ramboarhunter said:


> Is it bad sportsmanship for me to use bright fletching and flo. green PIN nocks. If you want to hit my arrow it will probably cost you points because the pin nock will deflect your arrow but it won't cost me an arrow because it is extremely hard to robinhood an arrow with pin nocks.
> Think about it.
> Charlie


I agree about the pin nocks. That's why I have no problem shooting 3D with FOB's!


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## vulcan320 (Feb 15, 2009)

I shoot white nocks and always go for the X. I also know that with every shot I risk arrow damage, but that is the risk I take for playing the game. The way that I see it, maybe everybody should shoot blackies. If everyone did, then nobody would get the advantage of having a reference. I know that I view that as an advantage while shooting with a good group.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

bamajk said:


> I shoot my first 3-D tournament last week and had a great time. I was shooting arrows with blue knocks while my competitors were shooting bright colored knocks. I found my self aiming at their knocks when they centered the 10 but they could not do the same with my arrows because you could not see the knocks.
> 
> Is it un-sportsmen like to shoot dark colored knocks?



Nope: sucks to be them.

Tell em if they want something to hold on, go shoot spots.:wink:


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Last time I checked it is not in the rules for any organization that you have to have bright colored nocks. I had a guy once told me I was not a team player because I shot black on black. My reply was I did not know this was a team sport and if it was I wanted to be traded.


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## Duece Weaver (Jun 29, 2004)

*Black Nocks*

I have heard so much crap concerning this topic again and again. Everyone knows that if you are shooting a black target (especially if you are shooting from the sun back into the shade or vise versa)there is defiantly an advantage in having a arrow to reference off of. If you do not think this is true then let the black nock shooters shoot first every time and watch their scores go down. I like to shoot bright nocks and help those who are shooting with me but I do carry my black arrow just to return the favor to those who do not like to be "distracted".


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## Kill Shill (Sep 23, 2008)

Im a recipricator. I carry bright and blackout arrows.


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## Drive-by (Dec 12, 2008)

Black and dark green matches my Jade Green bow and stab. system


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