# New Sky Conquest Advantage 25" Riser/Limb Pics



## Chinese Tea (Mar 17, 2010)

I think the giant SKY logo on the riser is ridiculous..


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## titanium man (Mar 5, 2005)

First one I've seen. Is this a prototype? Haven't seen any specs or data about it, as it's not even on Jim Belcher's website. How much does the riser weigh? Thanks.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

Is the mounting system ILF or old Sky standard? 
The logos on the limbs are nicely done, but the SKY on the riser is too much - especially if they were prevented from having the cut-outs going all the way through the riser to accommodate the graphics. (But then, I've got a ProAccent with lots of logos everywhere.) 
Are the limbs maple core/carbon like the old Conquest limbs?


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## tchiex (May 27, 2008)

They are ILF now along with his new Limbs that he is making. If you go to www.skyarchery.com he has a listing of all the types of ILF limbs Jim is making.


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

Can definitely pick up on the reflex design compared to the original. The elegant and subtle limb branding are in large contrast to the riser branding. The riser cutouts look unusual to boot. Look forward to hearing how the bow performs as it gets low marks for visual appeal (which we all know is what makes a bow shoot better  ) Regardless of opinion, thanks for sharing!


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

The white highlighting isn't stock. I did that with some polyurethane rubber. I actually think it has very classic lines.


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## deadeyedickwc (Jan 10, 2010)

i think the giant sky logo is great why not be proud of a great riser , i guess no products should show their logos hu green pee!


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Does not look like a top of the line riser. Accessories and details say : forged riser, W&W technology. Curious to know how it will compare in price to the SF premium riser.


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## Hunter Dave (Jul 17, 2007)

I think the logo on the limbs is less flashy than the rest of the current manufacturer logos - just compare side-by-side with the offering from Hoyt, Samick, W&W, KAYA, etc. Some of the others are downright gawdy. I'd like to see a performance evaluation by Blacky.

Vittorio, with all due respect, what would be the disadvantage(s) of a forged riser that is most likely finished on a CNC machine? What do you mean by W&W technology? Just curious...


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

It is fully machined. The details make it top of the line. Designed to push higher performance out of limbs. 16 degree pocket and a simple but elegant limb alignment system. The limb stud drops into a recess and slides in. Look at the closer quartered shelf that allows greater freedom for hand placement. If you want to get your finger right up along side the shelf, you can do it on this platform. The riser also is neutrally balanced out of the box. That was done by design and not by accident. It is also a lot more reflex compared to the competition. Simply put, there is currently no other riser that will push limbs to greater performance than this one. You might want to take a second look before judgment on this.


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

I saw the advertisement in the latest issue of U.S. Archer magazine. I don't have that copy any longer but IIRC it said the riser was available in blue, silver, and camo. It looks interesting but I didn't catch much more than a quick look......I hope Jim Belcher gets the picture and details put on the SKY website ASAP. - John


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## Chinese Tea (Mar 17, 2010)

What angle are limbs mounted on other risers? Doesn't the angle change depending on how far in/out the limb bolts are anyways?
I understand that you can mount limbs at different angles and reflex/deflex to increase or decrease preload and therefore total energy at the same brace height and draw length. But why not just use heavier limbs in the first place? It seems to me that design of limbs and risers is more about energy efficiency rather than power, and because different people have different statures and musculature and releases, this becomes a very personal thing that can't be designed with everyone in mind. 
I've seen a riser that has the limbs mounted nearly vertically (<=5 degrees), but I'm not sure if it ended up helping the archer. The archer had to use limbs #10 lower than usual to make it shootable. In the end was it more efficient? No idea.
I like the idea of neutral balance (with stabilizers, setups tend to end up bottom heavy anyways to get the bow to rotate downwards, so why not start closer to that?), and I'm reminded that my old gold medalist is also much more reflex than many risers today. Personally, I was always wondering why I haven't seen more archers experimenting with extended grips to simulate higher reflex risers in the first place.


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## grapplemonkey (Nov 2, 2005)

"Limb pad" angle does not change no matter how far in/out you adjust your limb bolts. All physical body types benefit from the adjustability provided in todays bow. What riser (nearly vertically (<=5 degrees)) are you talking about?


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Sorry boys, but this looks really hideous compared to Sky's of the Mr. Hoyt era. Like a compound riser bolted to set of limbs (of which there are many of course). With a wart in the middle.

I'm not sure if riser geometry is something you want to play around in sake of _speed_, which has very, very little to do with how well you hit in the middle. Even if it works, it probably feels so alien to majority of archers that it will most likely hurt sales. I'm not sure I even want to try if limbs can take that kind of preload with my 33" draw...


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Because that would just decrease brace height. If you decrease limb angle and make the riser more reflex, the effect is making the limb work harder and flowering the tips while maintaining the same brace height. This platform is designed to help your limbs help you.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

eeek! concerning the SKY logo. 

i think its great that there is finally an american made riser that will balance well barebow. 

as far as the limb angle geometry..putting a bunch of extra pre-load on any limb is going to change its force draw characteristics and smoothness..perhaps you can run a lower brace height than normal and still keep things nice and smooth. that kind of extra preload would be like cranking the limb bolts down twice as far as they would normally go..i would think it would definitely kill smoothness for long draw archers.. what do you think of the smoothness cutberth?

gaining some speed is great for hunting or 3d or short draw archers but belchers obsession with speed (didnt he post 253fps with a recurve on youtube?) doesnt have a whole lot of merit shooting fita imo. 

what i am intersted in is those sky limbs. any more comments on those?

LIMB PAD ANGLE doesnt change but the angle of the entire limb DOES change depending on where the limb bolts are. adjustability in the limb bolts can "even out" the difference in riser angle/deflex. its the degree of deflex in relation to the pivot of the grip that changes things..not just the limb bolt setting. 

interesting riser.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

zal said:


> Sorry boys, but this looks really hideous compared to Sky's of the Mr. Hoyt era. Like a compound riser bolted to set of limbs (of which there are many of course). With a wart in the middle.
> 
> I'm not sure if riser geometry is something you want to play around in sake of _speed_, which has very, very little to do with how well you hit in the middle. Even if it works, it probably feels so alien to majority of archers that it will most likely hurt sales. I'm not sure I even want to try if limbs can take that kind of preload with my 33" draw...


So speed has very little to do with hitting 90 meters outdoors? That is a very strange comment. I imagine you have a hard time finding a comfortable rig to shoot with a 33" draw in the first place. That's ok since Sky also offers limbs in extra long length. Like Earl Hoyt did.


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## grapplemonkey (Nov 2, 2005)

Million dollar question... what kinda prices are we looking at?


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

ryan b. said:


> eeek! concerning the SKY logo.
> 
> i think its great that there is finally an american made riser that will balance well barebow.
> 
> ...


Regarding smoothness, that is a function of how the limbs are made. The limbs I got from Sky are very smooth and use little in the way of fat to produce power(very thin with fairly aggressively designed limb tips(low mass)). In short, they don't stack like you would imagine considering the demands the geometry of the riser places on them. You can run a lower brace, and pick up speed, and maintain smoothness(relative to other mfgrs offerings). As far as longer draw archers, they can get the extra long limbs option like the ones Earl Hoyt Jr. provided. After all, Jim is using the same presses and Forms Earl himself built.

FYI, I just stuck my riser on the scale and it weighs approx 1485grams.(I didn't pull off all my hardware)


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

jhinaz said:


> I saw the advertisement in the latest issue of U.S. Archer magazine. I don't have that copy any longer but IIRC it said the riser was available in blue, silver, and camo. It looks interesting but I didn't catch much more than a quick look......I hope Jim Belcher gets the picture and details put on the SKY website ASAP. - John


It will also be available in Red and Black I think. He's working on the website thing.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

looks like its middle of the road as far as mass weight goes. i think what zal is referring to is that speed is not worth it if you sacrifice smoothness and stability. by the time most people have the skill to group at 90m they are shooting sufficient weight and speed isnt really an issue (most of the time.. i know there are short draw archers and people not holding heavy weights). in the case of this bow/limbs it doesnt sound like thats the case --these seem to be good. can you compare them to any other high end limbs youve shot? how about a good standard like winex's? and i personally love the idea of extra long limbs then i dont have to pay 700bucks for a 27" riser. thanks for the info. i would definitey like to see this riser make it to a second generation. hopefully he can get enough of these limbs out there to get some comparitive opinions on them.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Cuthbert said:


> So speed has very little to do with hitting 90 meters outdoors? That is a very strange comment. I imagine you have a hard time finding a comfortable rig to shoot with a 33" draw in the first place. That's ok since Sky also offers limbs in extra long length. Like Earl Hoyt did.


Very, very little to do, when you pick up speed, you need to tune stiffer arrows, which are heavier, which means the marks stay usually about same. We're talking about competition poundages of 46lbs and above of course. I'd rather take stablity and feel thank you very much.

I'll stick with my 70" limbs, any which are properly made work with 33" draws just fine.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

zal said:


> Very, very little to do, when you pick up speed, you need to tune stiffer arrows, which are heavier, which means the marks stay usually about same. We're talking about competition poundages of 46lbs and above of course. I'd rather take stablity and feel thank you very much.
> 
> I'll stick with my 70" limbs, any which are properly made work with 33" draws just fine.


But heavier arrows at distance outdoors are more stable. It does make a difference. How did you determine this rig wasn't shooting limbs properly? Not trying to be confrontational, but you kind of came out of the gate as hypercritical. What gives?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Hunter Dave said:


> Vittorio, with all due respect, what would be the disadvantage(s) of a forged riser that is most likely finished on a CNC machine? What do you mean by W&W technology? Just curious...


W&W has made some very good forged risers in the past, and the Winex riser is the last one of them. Forging is a cheaper process than milling from solid bars and gives more strenght to aluminum fibers, allowing slightly smaller sections, but needs at the and a reworking to make the limbs planes and other adjustements, and this is a process not easy to do. Then, forged surface can't give good results in color anodizing as it is, so usually forged risers end up to be painted. 
This riser looks in pictures forged and painted. Cliker extension is similar to Kap Winstar one, and I don't see any kind of limbs alignement system, so if existing it should be done by eccentric limbs bolts. All these solutions are typical by W&W ... so my reference to W&W technology/design
16° pockets make it precharging limbs a lot. Majority of risers are between 14 and 15° and limbs are usually made to work in that range. But this is really not so important, simply you will have to buy lighter limbs to get them at desired poundage. Then, how limbs perform with more precharge depends form limbs design, only. 

But, as news are now saying the riser is 100% machined, my fist impression was clearly wrong...


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I've tried some compound risers made into hunting ilf bows with similar limb angle. The feel was violent.

Feel is all I want from bow, and what most high level archers I know want too. Apart from sponsoring.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Vittorio said:


> W&W has made some very good forged risers in the past, and the Winex riser is the last one of them. Forging is a cheaper process than milling from solid bars and gives more strenght to aluminum fibers, allowing slightly smaller sections, but needs at the and a reworking to make the limbs planes and other adjustements, and this is a process not easy to do. Then, forged surface can't give good results in color anodizing as it is, so usually forged risers end up to be painted.
> This riser looks in pictures forged and painted. Cliker extension is similar to Kap Winstar one, and I don't see any kind of limbs alignement system, so if existing it should be done by eccentric limbs bolts. All these solutions are typical by W&W ... so my reference to W&W technology/design
> 16° pockets make it precharging limbs a lot. Majority of risers are between 14 and 15° and limbs are usually made to work in that range. But this is really not so important, simply you will have to buy lighter limbs to get them at desired poundage. Then, how limbs perform with more precharge depends form limbs design, only.
> 
> But, as news are now saying the riser is 100% machined, my fist impression was clearly wrong...


Took those pictures with my phone. It really doesn't do it justice. 
The limb alignment system is not eccentric bolt. It has a movable stud pocket that can be laterally adjusted with a pivot bolt and opposing set screws.
I agree totally about the limb performance being a function of limb design.
The harmonic dampener is easily popped out for weight adjust-ability (kits available at future date) 
This riser has some cutting edge concepts incorporated into it and it was intentionally made to look a bit retro to give continuity to the SKY brand, but those limbs are quite amazing! I know we will be seeing a lot more of them in competition very soon.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

zal said:


> I've tried some compound risers made into hunting ilf bows with similar limb angle. The feel was violent.
> 
> Feel is all I want from bow, and what most high level archers I know want too. Apart from sponsoring.


Might want to hold off til you shoot one though. This beast isn't harsh. I wish I could hand it over to show you, but doing that would give me separation anxiety.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I saw a red one of these at NFAA louisville. I have seen some of JB's Sky limbs (I believe I own more real sky limbs than anyone given I got most of Ann's stock when she closed sky about 8 years ago) on a bow that Hollie Stover (an RA now) had at NFAA last year-I believe her father has some part in this venture. I shot a real sky for 10 years in competition and still own at least a half dozen RH risers, a LH riser (the last one Ann sold) and a LH Matthews riser and at least 4 dozen Conquest limb sets and SKY Jack sets. So I will have a sound basis of comparision when I try some of these new skys. I also own a few matthews sets too

I would note that over the years other makers (other being someone other than Earl) tried different degrees of deflex or reflex. IIRC Rick wrote an article on one of the Yamahas that held a world record at 70M because of its deflex but it was not as competitive at the other distances. The deflex Earl came to use-the one Hoyt noted was Earl's original specs when Earl died and Sky was no longer owned by the late Great Ann Hoyt-was time tested as proven by everything from Darrell's 10 year record set in 79 to some of the current top scores shot with that same deflex.

whether this new "angle" will surpass a design that has proven worthy for 40+ years will be interesting to see. as limbs, strings and arrows have led to faster speeds, one wonders if this new design is needed when the concept failed back in the days of dacron strings, wood glass limbs and 2014 arrows--ie when a speed increase would have made a big difference


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Jim C said:


> I saw a red one of these at NFAA louisville. I have seen some of JB's Sky limbs (I believe I own more real sky limbs than anyone given I got most of Ann's stock when she closed sky about 8 years ago) on a bow that Hollie Stover (an RA now) had at NFAA last year-I believe her father has some part in this venture. I shot a real sky for 10 years in competition and still own at least a half dozen RH risers, a LH riser (the last one Ann sold) and a LH Matthews riser and at least 4 dozen Conquest limb sets and SKY Jack sets. So I will have a sound basis of comparision when I try some of these new skys. I also own a few matthews sets too
> 
> I would note that over the years other makers (other being someone other than Earl) tried different degrees of deflex or reflex. IIRC Rick wrote an article on one of the Yamahas that held a world record at 70M because of its deflex but it was not as competitive at the other distances. The deflex Earl came to use-the one Hoyt noted was Earl's original specs when Earl died and Sky was no longer owned by the late Great Ann Hoyt-was time tested as proven by everything from Darrell's 10 year record set in 79 to some of the current top scores shot with that same deflex.
> 
> whether this new "angle" will surpass a design that has proven worthy for 40+ years will be interesting to see. as limbs, strings and arrows have led to faster speeds, one wonders if this new design is needed when the concept failed back in the days of dacron strings, wood glass limbs and 2014 arrows--ie when a speed increase would have made a big difference


If only Earl had the materials and techniques we have today, who's to say what the face of riser and limb design might look like today.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Cuthbert said:


> If only Earl had the materials and techniques we have today, who's to say what the face of riser and limb design might look like today.


actually most of that was around then-the syntactic foam, the x10 arrows, and Dyneema string material

the point is back in the days when a bit more speed was an obvious advantage, the designs that got more speed failed to win. Darrell was known for having very fast set ups that some-like Rick-noted were critical. But the bows were essentially the same angle. DP just went with light arrows, stiff plungers etc-not a reflexed bow others, like Rick wanted a forgiving platform-I haven't read his two books in a couple years but I recall him saying he had the slowest kit on the field when he won the 77 worlds. Today very forgiving designs are very very fast compared to stuff that was considered very critical but fast. I guess given we get lots of speed with high brace height designs now, is more speed desireable if its more critical


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## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

I got to shoot a Sky last year for the first time. I have to say that J. Belcher is putting out a great product. No one bow fits everyone but I will say I was impressed with the smoothness and quality of his product. Gar.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Jim C said:


> actually most of that was around then-the syntactic foam, the x10 arrows, and Dyneema string material
> 
> the point is back in the days when a bit more speed was an obvious advantage, the designs that got more speed failed to win. Darrell was known for having very fast set ups that some-like Rick-noted were critical. But the bows were essentially the same angle. DP just went with light arrows, stiff plungers etc-not a reflexed bow others, like Rick wanted a forgiving platform-I haven't read his two books in a couple years but I recall him saying he had the slowest kit on the field when he won the 77 worlds. Today very forgiving designs are very very fast compared to stuff that was considered very critical but fast. I guess given we get lots of speed with high brace height designs now, is more speed desireable if its more critical


But the consistency and variety of carbon fiber materials and advances in CNC machining would have been an interesting element if available to him at the time. Speed is a balancing act. It's one of those elements that is better to have and not need than need and not have. Time will tell if the design mix that SKY offers is the right one for today's shooters or not, but at least Jim didn't compromise his desire to make a bow that works the way his experience told him was right in the face of convention. He doesn't take Earl Hoyt Jr's legacy lightly, and trying to fill those shoes is not possible. Jim could have measured every successful riser design available and averaged them and created a modern looking me too bow but he didn't want to do that. Progress is only achieved by careful observation and experimentation. That's how he thinks Earl did it, and that's why he wants to walk that path with the SKY namesake.


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## dbake (Mar 5, 2007)

Paul,

How does it shoot for you?

Is it as good as your old SKY setup?

Don


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

dbake said:


> Paul,
> 
> How does it shoot for you?
> 
> ...


I really like shooting this bow! The SKY limbs I have are smooth and fast. The bow gives good feedback. I'll know more as I put the finishing touches on outfitting it and completing the tuning process. All in all, I'm still just getting to know this bow, but the outlook of a great relationship is strong at this point. Comparing it to my old SKY is unfair as I didn't have the new SKY limbs until now and haven't put them on it for comparison. However, I will say, I think Jim is on the right track for a great competition riser.


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## deadeyedickwc (Jan 10, 2010)

all i can tell you is i have shot a lot of risers ,wood and metal , after i shot this it was stable fast and dead in the hand reminded me of a compound riser,i sold my das elite and spig club ,this riser i feel is way better


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Richard has been shooting this riser for a few months now so he would know a lot more about the performance level at this time.


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## Blunt Arrow (Mar 2, 2006)

In this day and age how could anyone design a riser that is so ugly. What was Jim thinking about. If Earl saw this god knows what he would say. I know that most of the people I have come in contact with that still shoot SKY bows or want to shoot Sky bows were looking to get the classic design riser with an update to the standard ILF limb fitting. The limbs Earl made were good solid limbs, most of which are still around. If Jim could make them again I'm sure there is business to be had.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Hi Guys, 
I just received my Sky Recurve on Tuesday, I'm just learning to shoot recurve, 

My bow is all black and has the Sky logo on the top limb, The riser is the 17" with the harmonic dampeners in it, the limbs are 35lb @28" and have the ILF limb system. And............. that's all I know about it.

I ordered it from Jim at the Mathews show in December, and just got my bow this week. When I spoke to Jim's wife, she said they are so busy making bows it should be a good year for them.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Blunt Arrow said:


> In this day and age how could anyone design a riser that is so ugly. What was Jim thinking about. If Earl saw this god knows what he would say. I know that most of the people I have come in contact with that still shoot SKY bows or want to shoot Sky bows were looking to get the classic design riser with an update to the standard ILF limb fitting. The limbs Earl made were good solid limbs, most of which are still around. If Jim could make them again I'm sure there is business to be had.


I think the first thing Earl would say is "How does it shoot?" Your opinion of the looks of this bow won't affect it's performance one iota. As far as offering an updated version of the classic Conquest, It has been at least talked about. Perhaps when Jim has a bit more time, he'll do it. I think the bow looks great the way it is. It might be that my phone photography isn't too good, and you know what they say about opinions anyway.


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## Blunt Arrow (Mar 2, 2006)

To: Cuthbert,

Everyone has an opinion about what they think looks good. It's clear we don't agree. If this bow was designed to be shot in FITA's I think it should have had some cut outs to let the wind pass through the riser. Alot of people felt the original riser was too heavy and too stiff. I have no idea how this riser is and probably willn't get an opportunity to try one for some time. Oh that SKY logo in the sight window, over kill. Many of the companies of late have gotten a little crazy with plastering there name and needless sayings all over there limbs and risers. PS: I do like the way the logo is done on the limbs.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

Perhaps this picture will be more "calmed down" for some.

ATTACH=CONFIG]1058684[/ATTACH]


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Yip, I think that looks better but that's my taste, and I do like red risers. Anyhow the logo won't be seen while you're using it and if it distracts the other archers that's a plus. 

I'd be more interested in how it felt in the hand and on the shot........... and how it shot barebow.


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## Jurasic Archer (May 23, 2002)

When I was playing with this stuff, ( limb pocket angles and amount of deflex) I noticed that a change in this area changed the attitude of the limb tip and effective brace height range on the same limbs. In that way, likely other design changes have come into play to make this work. Greater deflex = higher brace height and visa versa. It would also change the way the limb wrapped and unwrapped when drawing. In that way, it was not just poundage that was effected. The fade at the base of the limb and the tip radius (smallest radius) was strongly effected. ( core taper rates could also come into play) Jim knows his stuff and I imagine there are way more changes to this bow than just pocket angle and deflection. To accomplish this effectively, much more must be done. I am interested in what all was done. There are many ways to effect the energy of a bow............


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## deadeyedickwc (Jan 10, 2010)

ok why does a riser have to have cut outs in it in order to shoot fita , i have found that heavier works better for me like the spig club,so the added weight is a plus it makes it more stable if you dont shoot with a stabilizer.am i missing something here?


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

I personally like the look of the riser but I think it would look better if the logo was a little smaller


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## archeryking (Aug 3, 2002)

I noticed no one has posted the sky archery website as a source of more information. www.skyarchery.com

The design seems interesting. I am just not sure if it is interesting enough to drop $600 on.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Jurasic Archer said:


> When I was playing with this stuff, ( limb pocket angles and amount of deflex) I noticed that a change in this area changed the attitude of the limb tip and effective brace height range on the same limbs. In that way, likely other design changes have come into play to make this work. Greater deflex = higher brace height and visa versa. It would also change the way the limb wrapped and unwrapped when drawing. In that way, it was not just poundage that was effected. The fade at the base of the limb and the tip radius (smallest radius) was strongly effected. ( core taper rates could also come into play) Jim knows his stuff and I imagine there are way more changes to this bow than just pocket angle and deflection. To accomplish this effectively, much more must be done. I am interested in what all was done. There are many ways to effect the energy of a bow............


Fully agree.. Changing from deflex to reflex geometry is influencing how limbs are pre-charged, not poundage only, and to make changes really effective, limbs design should be changed, too. 
Most reflex recurve design in my knowledge was the Bernardini Mito, around 1992. Based on the design of the Bernardini Genesis compound, it had moveable pockets that could change the balance from neutral to reflex, with brace down to 7 1/2 " with Long Hoyt Carbon Plus limbs. It was a very unforgiving riser at lowest brace.. 
Most Deflex design existing is the Fiberbow 5.99, were limbs are moved back of more than 1/2 inch from neutral, but design is keeping them working with the same usual pocket angles, making long limbs working >10" brace without changing their working curve. 
More reflex riser made in the last years is the D.A. Archery Sintesy, but its pockets angle again is kept in the normal range. 
No manufacturer in my knowledge has changed limbs design ot make them working properly in a really reflex riser. May be Sky is the first one.


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## Mithril (Dec 4, 2010)

> May be Sky is the first one.


Or not, since they only sell an "ilf" limb, not a specific one designed for this riser...


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Mithril said:


> Or not, since they only sell an "ilf" limb, not a specific one designed for this riser...


What? Explain please.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

id like to see a couple of things... Whos picking up the tab when Xbrand limbs fail on a riser that "boosts" limbs stress levels...
right now, there are little in the way of questions of 25" risers and "acceptable" limb stress levels. Is there a remit for draw lengths???

Also, there are 2 simple remits of stability and thats lateral and vertical nock stability...
Preloading a limb thats not designed to be preloaded that much leads to vertical instability, and id be glad to be corrected on that. If Mithril is saying what i think hes saying about Hoyt having the PMS system, at least Hoyt have locked limb buyers to a known limb pad datum. This riser adds to the confusion since it fits limbs NOT designed for its geometry. This also means that IF the Sky limbs are optimised for this riser, then they wont fair too well on a normal ILF riser?


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## Mithril (Dec 4, 2010)

Right. If the only limbs they sell are tagged as "ilf" then obviously they haven't had the design refinements that Jurassic and Vittorio mention would be needed to make the geometry change work properly. Or, if they have, then how do they work on exisiting "ilf" risers?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Whos picking up the tab when Xbrand limbs fail on a riser that "boosts" limbs stress levels..


I think it is understood (or at least should be) that if you choose to put limbs of one brand on a riser of another, you are pretty well on your own after that. Up to the mercy of the manufacturer since you chose to mix brands. I strongly suspect that if Jim's SKY limbs failed on Jim's SKY riser, he would replace them - within reason of course...


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Thats my opinion on why Hoyt have gone non-ILF with thier latest creations... Keeps thier limbs out of the reach of 13", 15", 17" risers harm. afterall, you cant have a sight window on a 13" riser with a PMS limb design.
This riser now means you can assume standard limb pad angles now even on a 25"...
I assume dealers take a set of limbs that have had issues, agree on the 25" norm, and just deal with them... but now they have to ask what brand of riser, as it might effect whether of not you get support...

Cuthbert: What is the weight hike on this Sky riser? ATA 28" Draw, Bolts mid position for example?


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Vittorio said:


> . Based on the design of the Bernardini Genesis compound, it had moveable pockets that could change the balance from neutral to reflex, with brace down to 7 1/2 " with Long Hoyt Carbon Plus limbs. It was a very unforgiving riser at lowest brace..
> Most Deflex design existing is the Fiberbow 5.99, were limbs are moved back of more than 1/2 inch from neutral, but design is keeping them working with the same usual pocket angles, making long limbs working >10" brace without changing their working curve.
> .


changing riser deflex to achive a different brace height is not the right way as it acheives a different "forgiveness" in the riser.
you need the centre of gravity of the riser to be inside the bow (belly side), to make it deflexed. this way the riser is stable when pulled. The quick torque induced though paradox is minimised in a deflexed riser, and all inline riser struggle with this... though you could just add a whopping longrod to counteract this.
Too much deflex and you loose cast, as you have effectivly lost powerstoke...


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## jim belcher (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks for your comments. I knew taking over SKY archery wouldn't be easy -- filling Earl/Ann Hoyt Shoes is impossible, but I do have all the SKY records, forms, jigs and fixtures. Plus, I have 30 hours of video of SKY in action including the making of the Conquest riser and limbs. The new Conquest Advantage has been made with all the concerns you have plus the experience of the SKY records. It is a stable platform with super smooth fast limbs. Don't believe what I say... shoot one.

My dad used to say, "we will still have to shoot after we've done taking."


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

Welcome to the forum Jim. We hope you become a 'regular' and share some of your knowledge with us (as Rick, Vittorio and others do). - John


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

jim belcher said:


> Thanks for your comments. I knew taking over SKY archery wouldn't be easy -- filling Earl/Ann Hoyt Shoes is impossible, but I do have all the SKY records, forms, jigs and fixtures. Plus, I have 30 hours of video of SKY in action including the making of the Conquest riser and limbs. The new Conquest Advantage has been made with all the concerns you have plus the experience of the SKY records. It is a stable platform with super smooth fast limbs. Don't believe what I say... shoot one.
> 
> My dad used to say, "we will still have to shoot after we've done taking."


I remember your dad round the NFAS shoots... I must have been in my early teens.
Nice to see your around these parts... Whats the Weight hike on the riser from a normal riser to this one?

Sid (the younger one)


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