# 'Insteada Nationals'



## RatherBArchery

Here is the flyer/registration form for our 'Insteada Nationals' as promised. We are hoping to make this a big event and hopefully we can get a good showing from you fellow AT'ers. It would be a good way to meet other AT guys and have fun at a shoot as well. Sponsors are lining up with some nice door prizes with more coming in each day. Thanks to ALL the sponsors, I will add names to the list as they come on board!! 
HOPE TO SEE YOU AT THE SHOOT!!!!


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## RatherBArchery

There are plenty of campgrounds/motels in the area if you will be driving in from out of town, contact me for names and numbers.


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## SSNIGHTMARE

What club/range is this shoot at??


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## montigre

*Rules*

Great to see the flyer. 

Would you mind posting the differences between the NFAA and PSAA field rules for those of us attending the event from out of state? I looked on the PSAA website and was not able to locate an area where the shooting rules were posted. Thanks.


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## RatherBArchery

*Course/Range*



SSNIGHTMARE said:


> What club/range is this shoot at??


It will be at the Lancaster Archery Club in Willow Street, PA. Our website is www.lancasterarcheryclub.com , we are about 10 miles from Lancaster Archery Supply (most know where that is).


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## RatherBArchery

*PSAA rules*



montigre said:


> Great to see the flyer.
> 
> Would you mind posting the differences between the NFAA and PSAA field rules for those of us attending the event from out of state? I looked on the PSAA website and was not able to locate an area where the shooting rules were posted. Thanks.


I will need some help locating those rules and I will contact another officer for help. The main reason for using these is because that is what we follow when we hold our Penn Dutch league events each year. Not sure if there is a real big difference?? Can anyone post a link to these rules???


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## RatherBArchery

ALSO, the reason for the HONOR SYSTEM of classification is because of not knowing how other states classify shooters and if the scoring breaks are the same. That is why it is spelled out on the flyer


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## frank_jones

*bhfs*



RatherBArchery said:


> I will need some help locating those rules and I will contact another officer for help. The main reason for using these is because that is what we follow when we hold our Penn Dutch league events each year. Not sure if there is a real big difference?? Can anyone post a link to these rules???


the psaa bowhunter freestyle rules for equipment and restrictions would be nice.


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## RatherBArchery

IF you DO NOT see the class that you shoot let us know, we chose the classes based on attendance at the PA State shoot. We will accomondate different classes if enough shooters enter it. The Money Classes will stay as stated.


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## RatherBArchery

Thanks to these sponsors as well: (besides the ones listed on the flyer)
VaneTec, Inc.
Hoyt USA
WRstrings
More to be added soon!!


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## mag41vance

frank_jones said:


> the psaa bowhunter freestyle rules for equipment and restrictions would be nice.


 Good to see you've come back home Frank! :wink:


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## RatherBArchery

Here is a youtube clip showing some of the targets on our course http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ6x92i5Er8 , I will be getting some updated Field course photos on our website too.


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## archerpap

PSAA Bowhunter rules are no back or side rods, 6" maximun from front of bow to pins. I'm not sure on the verifier, but I believe they passed it this year. I'm pretty sure the rest of the rules are the same.


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## Rattleman

Don't you guys also have a few different target distances.


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## pahuntr

Rattleman said:


> Don't you guys also have a few different target distances.


Nope - distances are the same. Remember, outdoor nats were held on PSAA courses last year. :wink:


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## Rattleman

I was there but I thought that you guys didn't shoot the 80 yarder. I thought your max distance was 65 yards.


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## archerpap

Nope, BH now shoot all the distances. The other difference is the hunter fans(28,32). NFAA shoots 2 @ top each target or 2 @ bottom each target. PSAA shoots in a horse shoe type configuration....left outside position shoots top left, left inside position shoots bottom left, right inside position shoots bottom right, and right outside position shoots top left...confusing, but less cross angled arrows. May not be to big of a deal, but it is a different rule from NFAA to PSAA!!


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## pahuntr

Changed several years ago when the 5th pin was allowed. PSAA is slowly adopting the NFAA rules. 5 pins (max 6" from bow), 12" stab, all yardages. Shooting rotation and targets are decided by the group, not established by rule.


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## pahuntr

archerpap said:


> Nope, BH now shoot all the distances. The other difference is the hunter fans(28,32). NFAA shoots 2 @ top each target or 2 @ bottom each target. PSAA shoots in a horse shoe type configuration....left outside position shoots top left, left inside position shoots bottom left, right inside position shoots bottom right, and right outside position shoots top left...confusing, but less cross angled arrows. May not be to big of a deal, but it is a different rule from NFAA to PSAA!!


RR - not sure the fan shooting rotation is a rule - just how it is usually shot by most.


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## archerpap

Thought it used to be a rule. That's how we do it, by what the group wants. Most time is NFAA style...less confusing, espicially to those that always shoot top, bottom.


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## RatherBArchery

We want this to be a skills test NOT a oops I shot the target wrong deal. We were thinking of making up a sheet for each fan/peeps(bunny) target butt to show how the PSAA shoots them. NOW if you shoot the same spot twice on a four target face then that is another story. We would like for everyone to enjoy the shoot and not have to worry about the differences between PSAA and NFAA, we are having a rules meeting before each day to answer all the questions. If we need we will make up a cheat sheet for how to shoot the fans/peeps.


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## RatherBArchery

GPS coordinates to the club are 39.996853, - 76.302265 then look for the big white Lancaster Archery Club sign on Eckman Road  More info will be posted on our website soon www.lancasterarcheryclub.com Thanks!!


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## frank_jones

*rule*



RatherBArchery said:


> We want this to be a skills test NOT a oops I shot the target wrong deal. We were thinking of making up a sheet for each fan/peeps(bunny) target butt to show how the PSAA shoots them. NOW if you shoot the same spot twice on a four target face then that is another story. We would like for everyone to enjoy the shoot and not have to worry about the differences between PSAA and NFAA, we are having a rules meeting before each day to answer all the questions. If we need we will make up a cheat sheet for how to shoot the fans/peeps.


good idea. bhsf equipment rules if I understand correctly, 5 fixed pins with a level 6 inch maximum from the bow riser. one stabilizer bar that faces toward the target. no point wieght or fletching size restrictions for arrows. is there an arrow speed limit?


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## RatherBArchery

Not that I know of, maybe archerpap knows the answer to this?? I am still looking for the PSAA rules online, can anyone help locate the rules??


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## RatherBArchery

The registration form is now on our website too!!


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## archerpap

frank_jones said:


> good idea. bhsf equipment rules if I understand correctly, 5 fixed pins with a level 6 inch maximum from the bow riser. one stabilizer bar that faces toward the target. no point wieght or fletching size restrictions for arrows. is there an arrow speed limit?


5 pin max with level, 6" from front of bow to pins, 12" max stab, no point or fletching restrictions. I almost positive there is no speed limit, but I'll look when I get home later.


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## RatherBArchery

More door prizes coming in:
Thank You Norway Industries!!


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## RedWonder

Speed limit has never been mentioned before so i don't think it exists in the PSAA.


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## RatherBArchery

I am working on getting something posted with the rules, hoping to have it up by Sunday.


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## RatherBArchery

THANK YOU BCY!!! The door prize vault keeps growing, there will be some very happy shooter leaving our shoot


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## RatherBArchery

Received some campground news:
The closest campground, named Outdoor World/Circle M, is only about 3 minutes from the club. There campsites are around $50.00/night but they allow up to 3 tents and ten people on a site which means that if you buddy up it would make things a little cheaper. It is a decent place with pools and hot tubs, just follow this link http://www.1000trails.com/getaways/pennsylvania/circlem.asp should get you there. If you call the 872 phone number and hit extension 61 you can speak with Judy to book a bit sooner. If you want something a little cheaper just email me and I will help you find a place within 15 minutes of the club. [email protected] Good Luck!!!


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## RatherBArchery

We noticed that the score range for the award classes was flipped. 
UNL 'AA' is a score of 530 and over
UNL 'A' is 529 and lower


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## nanayak

RatherBArchery said:


> THANK YOU BCY!!! The door prize vault keeps growing, there will be some very happy shooter leaving our shoot


They are awesome guys!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RatherBArchery

Door prizes are still arriving 
Getting requests for single day shooters, again it all depends on the 2 day shooter counts. Get your name on the list and we will add you if possible.


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## montigre

*Rules??*

Still waiting to see the PSAA shooting rules..... Or if they are not available, how about just using NFAA shooting rules since this is the Insteada (NFAA) Nationals??? Just a thought....:wink:


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## Rattleman

montigre said:


> Still waiting to see the PSAA shooting rules..... Or if they are not available, how about just using NFAA shooting rules since this is the Insteada (NFAA) Nationals??? Just a thought....:wink:


Yeah at least they are posted on the NFAA website.


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## archerpap

That would probably be the easiest thing to do, and if needed, flight the classes, or just pick a cut off score as per class!!


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## RatherBArchery

From what I am finding out there is NO link to the rules, I am waiting on a 2010 rule book. Sounds like the differences are only in the BH class??!! I will get something up ASAP, just returned from vacation.


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## V.A.S.A

*awesome.*

*Printed app. Hope to see ya .*


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## RatherBArchery

You can visit your old bow VASA
Hope you can make it!!!


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## RatherBArchery

More door prizes arrived:
Thanks to, Winners Choice and Smooth Stability!!!
More items are on the way too


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## RatherBArchery

If you are interested in getting on the waiting list for the one day shooters PLEASE get your names in, cost is $10.00 for one day BUT I would consider paying the full $20.00 so that you can qualify for the door prizes. With the amount of prizes we have received there will be PLENTY of happy shooters 
AGAIN, two day shooters take preference!!! PM or email to save a one day spot, please include your name,class (one day shooters CAN NOT compete for cash) and a phone number so that I can call you after pre-registration ends.


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## nanayak

How about we just make life easy and use NFAA rules?????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RatherBArchery

I will suggest this to the other officers but am not sure they will change since the flyer is out. I do not think there are big differences BUT, will get the '08' PSAA rule book from the other officer and see if I can do something with it tomorrow night.
AGAIN, we want this to be a SKILLS competition.


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## nanayak

No....that's wrong.

You want it to be a FUN competition.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nanayak

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RatherBArchery

Of course we want it to be a fun event, I am thinking that the door prizes will make it more fun for the winners. I know I have a hard time looking at all the prizes and not sticking them on my bow  I hope I win something!!!


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## RatherBArchery

Post here if you plan on attending our shoot and what class you will enter, of course this doesn't count as your registration I just want to know what kind of interst there is. I have received registrations from as far as Vermont so far, they are just starting to come in.


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## RatherBArchery

I am working on getting the PSAA rules posted but will have to do it in steps, any part you want posted first??


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## frank_jones

*rules*

maybe the bhfs rules should be first.


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## webb babcock

BHFS rules would be nice to know. If you can't use a side v-bar can you use a 4 oz weight attached the side of the bow? Frank I still shoot the ovation bow alot I bougt from you.--webb babcock


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## VA Vince

Thinking about it, how does the payback work? Dont want to donate to the 550+ shooters, but if theres a 540+ maybe a 50 wont be bad. BUT I do love to wage some cash!


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## frank_jones

*wage?*



VA Vince said:


> Thinking about it, how does the payback work? Dont want to donate to the 550+ shooters, but if theres a 540+ maybe a 50 wont be bad. BUT I do love to wage some cash!


I'll wage that I'll be doing something else


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## RatherBArchery

VA Vince said:


> Thinking about it, how does the payback work? Dont want to donate to the 550+ shooters, but if theres a 540+ maybe a 50 wont be bad. BUT I do love to wage some cash!


60% of the total entry for each class will go back to the shooters. Amount of shooters being paid depends on amount of shooters in your particular class. The more shooters there are the more places that get paid, of course, if you would like more details just ask.


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## RatherBArchery

Money class payout schedule:
1-3 shooters= 1 payout of 100% ($90.00 to winner with 3 shooters)
4-6 shooters= 2 places paid (65% winner-35% 2nd)(w/ 6 shooters winner gets $117.00)
7-9 shooters= 3 places paid (50%/30%/20%)(w/9 shooters winner gets $135.00)
and so on, and so on 
BTW, even if you do not place but win a door prize some are worth well over $50.00


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## RatherBArchery

I have the rules photo copied just waiting on help to scan and post, should be just after lunch. THANK YOU for being patient!!


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## RatherBArchery

*PSAA rules*

I have the rules on a PDF file but it is to large to put on here, if you would like a copy please email or PM me with your info. OR, if anyone can help me figure how to get it posted on here that would be great too. Maybe I will try and get it put on our website??!!


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## VA Vince

RatherBArchery said:


> I have the rules on a PDF file but it is to large to put on here, if you would like a copy please email or PM me with your info. OR, if anyone can help me figure how to get it posted on here that would be great too. Maybe I will try and get it put on our website??!!


Please email to [email protected]

Thats an underscore after the v_


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## RatherBArchery

emails sent!!


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## nanayak

Email me please

[email protected]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RatherBArchery

Will send Monday once I get back in the office.


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## nanayak

Okey dokey!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RatherBArchery

Emails sent!!
ALSO, Thank You Carter Ent. for the door prize


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## [email protected]

Bump


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## RatherBArchery

The course is coming into shape!!! We (LAC) are excited to finally use the course to its full potential. I am thinking the first time shooters will enjoy our wooded tract Many members who will be shooting the event have not shot the full course either, most have only shot it as 1/2-Hunter face and 1/2- field face.


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## RatherBArchery

Leaving civilization for a while (Potter County, PA) will answer any questions when I get back to my computer on the 12th. May have someone from the club keep an eye on this thread incase there are some bigger issue's. See ya on the 12th!!


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## RatherBArchery

Just when I thought I was getting the day off to load for vacation
Applications are coming in, expecting a full box when I return. Till next week!!
BUMP


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## RatherBArchery

TTT till I get back


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## XHammer

*registration*

Do you guys need a hard check for the registration or will an e-check work?


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## RatherBArchery

We will accept either a regular check or a Postal Money Order written out to 
The Lancaster Archery Club, Inc. Thanks!!


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## XHammer

Cool thanks for the info. We will hopefully be bringing a group of 4 to 6 shooters from Rochester Bowhunters out of Rochester NY. The course looks great and we are looking forward to shooting with you guys.


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## RatherBArchery

ALOT of work went into the course while I was away!!!! It looks very good, we are excited.


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## 2005Ultramag

Am I getting from all this that shooters won't be able to show up, pay, and shoot?


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## MEM

Should be a good shoot, with a lot of good shooters attending. Lancaster Archery Club has a great field course.


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## RatherBArchery

MEM said:


> Should be a good shoot, with a lot of good shooters attending. Lancaster Archery Club has a great field course.


It is even better now that we have been widening the lanes  Thanks for the compliment!!


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## RatherBArchery

2005Ultramag said:


> Am I getting from all this that shooters won't be able to show up, pay, and shoot?


We are asking for pre-registration so that we can plan around the shooter count. We also will be filling in open spaces with single day shooters so we need a head count to know how many spaces to fill. If you can only shoot one day with us contact me and get your name on the list, I will be contacting folks on the 24th to let them know if there is space available.


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## blondstar

double checking, if we want to shoot in the money class we would be competing with every one or are you breaking it down into classess.


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## RatherBArchery

blondstar said:


> double checking, if we want to shoot in the money class we would be competing with every one or are you breaking it down into classess.


There is a Unlimited Money Class and a Bowhunter Money Class, make sense?? The award classes are broken down by skill level ('AA' and 'A'), Money is like an open class with two styles


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## blondstar

will there be mens and womens classes for the money


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## RatherBArchery

Sorry but only men's, UNLESS you can get enough female's to sign up 
We used totals from last years State Championships to set up classes and there just wasn't enough women entered to warrant a Money Class.


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## RatherBArchery

You have till the end of next week to send in the registrations, PLEASE PM me or email me with any concerns/questions. My email is [email protected] .


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## blondstar

sent ours off yesterday!


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## RatherBArchery

If you want to check and see if I received your registration form PLEASE feel free to email me about that as well. 
Finally, page three


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## RedWonder

My registration got sent off Tuesday.


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## archerpap

RedWonder said:


> My registration got sent off Tuesday.


Did ya send mine in also???


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## RatherBArchery

We are getting about 2-4 app's a day now, PLEASE send them in as soon as you can.
Just received another door prize,this time from the local Hoyt rep. Thanks Tony


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## RatherBArchery

RedWonder said:


> My registration got sent off Tuesday.


Received yours yesterday, Thanks!!


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## RatherBArchery

There will be four LAC officers at the Penn Dutch League Championships this Saturday, if you would prefer to hand deliver your registrations. I will be the guy with the pretty Orange PSE


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## RedWonder

archerpap said:


> Did ya send mine in also???


Come on now I could barely pay my fee, I ain't rolling in the money like you!


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## archerpap

RedWonder said:


> Come on now I could barely pay my fee, I ain't rolling in the money like you!


I'm sure you sent the $50 fee in?????


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## RatherBArchery

PLEASE help get the word around in your area, we sent flyers to all the local clubs and are finding out folks are not posting the flyer The club we shot at today had NO clue we were having this event. There are flyers posted now!!


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## RatherBArchery

Applications are starting to roll in now!!
The course is now officially cleared, what could be cleared was and boy does it look good!!! I know the shooters will enjoy all the clubs work!!


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## RatherBArchery

Sounds like the practice range will be open Friday evening BUT we decided NOT to open the course. We will need to hang faces and do not want to give anyone an advantage over folks who could not arrive early.


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## RatherBArchery

Those interested in shooting one day only PLEASE contact me with your info, we should have plenty of room for you. I will be contacting single day shooters before Monday to get them registered.


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## RatherBArchery

Less than two weeks away, get those registration forms in please. Here are the directions to the club so folks can start planning.
Lancaster Archery Club GPS Coordinates: 39.996853, -76.302265
390 Eckman Road
Lancaster, PA 17603
(This address is the house directly accross the street, PLEASE turn in at our stone driveway beside the sign)


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## RatherBArchery

We will have two guys at the PSAA State Field Shoot this coming weekend, you may turn in your registration form and payment to them. They will have flyers with them as well if you need info BUT, everything can be found here. Thanks!!


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## archerpap

Who should I be looking for. A guy with an orange PSE???


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## RatherBArchery

I will not be at States this year  PLEASE see either Ross T. or Bill L. from our club, they will be glad to take your money (for the shoot)!! They have a couple guys to visit that didn't REGISTER YET  Thanks AP


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## RatherBArchery

We are extending the registration into next week to try and draw more shooters, PLEASE call to get in. Payment could be made Saturday morning, please arrive by 7:00 if you need to pay then. 
I arranged over 30 DOOR PRIZES last night, most are worth more than the $20.00 entry fee


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## RatherBArchery

Extending sign-up, some local folks are just finding out about our shoot ?????
PLEASE CALL, we will get you in.


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## RatherBArchery

This thing is growing every day, should be a very fun event!! Hope to see you there!!!
NOT to late to register, just call for a space. We are still taking single day folks too!!


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## RatherBArchery

BTW- There will be seven (7) various PSE bows at the shoot to test drive, the TAC 15 X-Bow will also be on display. If we have a target that will stop the bolts we may be shooting it as well


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## RatherBArchery

Just received a 'BOW BUGGIE' as a donation, this will make another door prize winner very happy!! There will also be some of these 'Buggies' for sale at the event SO, bring some extra cash along


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## RatherBArchery

If there is anyone attending the shoot looking for tree ladders there will be some on sale at the shoot this weekend. One style connects together (5- 5 foot sections) and is 25 foot tall the other has independant sections 30" long each and will be sold in sets of 6 and can reach 24 to 26 feet, depending on spacing.


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## blondstar

Booked our room yesterday, looking forward to a weekend of shooting and shopping!! LOL


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## RatherBArchery

Looking for a couple more Bow Hunter Money guys, right now I have 4 but with three more we can pay out one more spot 
Range to be open Friday at 3:00pm if you are interested.


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## RatherBArchery

*Pictures*

Here is a quick picture of target #1 and of one side of our practice range.
Again this is the long side of our range, we have 20 yards and under on the other side.


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## RatherBArchery

Wouldn't mind finding another Bow Hunter Money guy, anyone??? Call me, it is not to late to get in. We have room in all classes!!


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## drw

RatherBArchery said:


> Looking for a couple more Bow Hunter Money guys, right now I have 4 but with three more we can pay out one more spot
> Range to be open Friday at 3:00pm if you are interested.


[is this the practice range or will the course be open for practice also.COLOR="RoyalBlue"][/COLOR]


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## pragmatic_lee

drw said:


> is this the practice range or will the course be open for practice also.


This is from post # 93 above





RatherBArchery said:


> Sounds like the practice range will be open Friday evening BUT we decided NOT to open the course. We will need to hang faces and do not want to give anyone an advantage over folks who could not arrive early.


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## drw

pragmatic_lee said:


> This is from post # 93 above


I'm hoping they change their minds and let us practice on the course.


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## RatherBArchery

Sorry for the slow reply, was at a jobsite in Northern Jersey today.
We need to do some last minute touch up to the course as well as hanging target faces for the AM. The last storm that went through dropped several large branches on a couple lanes, THANK GOD the target butts were spared.


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## RatherBArchery

Folks are still calling to see if they can get in, the answer is YES YOU CAN!!!
It is NOT to late, make the call. A friendly operator will assist you (that would be me by the way)


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## RatherBArchery

PLEASE call with your questions (717-314-7824), I will be out of the office and will most likely be getting the club ready for Saturday morning.


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## MEM

*Great Shoot*

Great Shoot and the weather cooperated. Congratulations to Jon Weibley for winning the money and his personal best score of 556 on the Hunter Round. 

Thanks to the Lancaster Archery Club for putting on a great shoot. See you next year.


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## Master Yoda

Great shoot Ray you guys did an excellent job I'll be back again next year.:shade:


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## blondstar

Thanks to everybody at LAC, we had a great time, the course was fun!! Hope to see this shoot again next year!!


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## drw

another thank you to LAC,Jim and I had a great time.


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## RatherBArchery

Looks like you had a safe trip, spend your 50/50 winnings wisely


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## RatherBArchery

I will post the winners on the photo thread.


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## MGB

Thank you, 112 times over. *Absolutely spectacular course! It's a real challenge of your skills and gorgeous to boot. *I will be there next year. I guarantee I won't chicken out on Sunday even if it's pouring rain at my house (~20 miles away). Sounds like you got next to nothing in the way of precip.


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## RatherBArchery

We were extremely lucky as far as the rain goes, someone was watching out for us!!


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