# 2018 hoyt bows



## uphunter

Just got my sneak peek form from Hoyt, $1200 for the new aluminum hunting bow and $1699 on the carbon hunting model, this in my mind is going to kill my Hoyt sales even further.


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## Scotsbowhunter

Ridiculous prices!


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## hammerinhank

When is the release date?


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## black feather

uphunter said:


> Just got my sneak peek form from Hoyt, $1200 for the new aluminum hunting bow and $1699 on the carbon hunting model, this in my mind is going to kill my Hoyt sales even further.


That's pretty steep. This will make the Spyder and Nitrum series bows go up in value. They haven't topped them IMO. 


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## Dunndm1

Wow... that's kinda a joke. I mean as a 24 year old already having enough problems trying to get out there to hunt/financially. It's a pretty smal market that will get these new. 


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## dajogejr

Looks like they took a page out of Elite's book with the price increase, let's hope it's not an industry trend.
At more than 1K for a flagship bow, people start holding onto their and/or buy used.


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## Dunndm1

When do the specs and looks get released? 


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## NM_HighPlains

Meanwhile, I've sold all my newer bows (up to a '15) and kept my '09 Alphamax's. I have $300 in one and $325 in the other.


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## brendan's dad

uphunter said:


> Just got my sneak peek form from Hoyt, $1200 for the new aluminum hunting bow and $1699 on the carbon hunting model, this in my mind is going to kill my Hoyt sales even further.


Wish we had those prices in Canada!


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## Outsider

I know one thing. Aluminum prices went up like crazy lately. Pretty sure this got something to do with it.


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## MNarrow

Another reason to tack on my planned jump from Hoyt to Xpedition:

1. $240 press fingers
2. $$ for side plates
3. $1200 aluminum


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## B3AV3R

My sneak peak shows $1099 for aluminum, $1549 and $1599 for carbon...


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## uphunter

Retail Prices not MSRP, yes still went up over $100 on both


B3AV3R said:


> My sneak peak shows $1099 for aluminum, $1549 and $1599 for carbon...


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## B3AV3R

$1099 puts them right in line with Mathews, etc. I don't like it any more than the next guy, but $1099 is the new "standard"...


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## Outsider

MNarrow said:


> Another reason to tack on my planned jump from Hoyt to Xpedition:
> 
> 1. $240 press fingers
> 2. $$ for side plates
> 3. $1200 aluminum


$145 if you buy my version of press fingers ;-)


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## pottergreg

MNarrow the side plates are $24.99 plus shipping from Lancaster (ordered some yesterday for my 2010 Hoyt Matrix which I will be keeping)


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## MNarrow

Outsider said:


> $145 if you buy my version of press fingers ;-)


Touche!


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## kc hay seed

sounds like I will shoot my 2010 carbon matrix with r.k.t. cams and my 2013 Alpha Elite a while longer!!


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## kdog23

dajogejr said:


> Looks like they took a page out of Elite's book with the price increase, let's hope it's not an industry trend.
> At more than 1K for a flagship bow, people start holding onto their and/or buy used.


This was my thought


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## warrenc1

When is the release date?


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## Archer_82

Are those numbers on the hunting line only?


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## Predator

Prices are out of control.

Funny thing is the PSE carbon Stealth will probably bury the Hoyt carbon heads up and at a meaningfully lower price.

Hoyt has seemed like maybe the least talked about big brand over the last year. They seem to have become somewhat irrelevant on a relative basis (this comment will probably confuse and irritate fanboys - lol - JMO) over the past year (this coming from a guy who used to love Hoyt bows). They need to make a big splash this year or it may get worse.

Either way, I'll be interested to see what they come out with - as I am with all of the brands.


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## Keith t

uphunter said:


> Just got my sneak peek form from Hoyt, $1200 for the new aluminum hunting bow and $1699 on the carbon hunting model, this in my mind is going to kill my Hoyt sales even further.


 Small price to pay for shooting the "best bows in the world"


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## CSchelk2

Specs are in the hoyt forum for the 2018 bows. No pics or bow names, just specs.


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## B3AV3R

Predator said:


> Prices are out of control.
> 
> Funny thing is the PSE carbon Stealth will probably bury the Hoyt carbon heads up and at a meaningfully lower price.
> 
> Hoyt has seemed like maybe the least talked about big brand over the last year. They seem to have become somewhat irrelevant on a relative basis (this comment will probably confuse and irritate fanboys - lol - JMO) over the past year (this coming from a guy who used to love Hoyt bows). They need to make a big splash this year or it may get worse.
> 
> Either way, I'll be interested to see what they come out with - as I am with all of the brands.


I agree, to an extent. Hoyt is coming off a soft year in which they didn't really offer much in the way of "new" products. They tend to take a year off every now and then. When they do, it's typically because a very big year is coming. I believe we will see that this year.


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## MNarrow

Predator said:


> Hoyt has seemed like maybe the least talked about big brand over the last year. They seem to have become somewhat irrelevant on a relative basis (this comment will probably confuse and irritate fanboys - lol - JMO) over the past year (this coming from a guy who used to love Hoyt bows). They need to make a big splash this year or it may get worse.


I agree with this. Bowtech, PSE, Mathews, and Xpedition are really stepping up.


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## BowHood

Glad I got my Carbon Spyder 34 when I did.


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## GVDocHoliday

Outsider said:


> $145 if you buy my version of press fingers ;-)


It appears those adapters will work with the bow time machine as well eh?


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## Captjock

Carbons went up $50, Alum up $100, not out of line with any other top of the line bows. Sitka and Kuiu camos, new cams, new limb pockets, cable system, grips and new vibration dampening. Exciting!!


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## Outsider

GVDocHoliday said:


> It appears those adapters will work with the bow time machine as well eh?


I will need to know the fingers tip thickness. To make sure they will fit in the groove on my adapters. If Yes this will work with no problems. Also Hoyt have approved them and they told me website should be updated soon.


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## Meat Missle

I like the idea of a new cam system on the hoyts, I feel like they have needed a little change getting in that department. If it's a good system might make me switch back to a hoyt. Although I'm not a fan of the prices 

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## txtgrobinson

So big changes coming to the line from the Defiant?


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## bighunterguy

Predator said:


> Prices are out of control.
> 
> Funny thing is the PSE carbon Stealth will probably bury the Hoyt carbon heads up and at a meaningfully lower price.
> 
> Hoyt has seemed like maybe the least talked about big brand over the last year. They seem to have become somewhat irrelevant on a relative basis (this comment will probably confuse and irritate fanboys - lol - JMO) over the past year (this coming from a guy who used to love Hoyt bows). They need to make a big splash this year or it may get worse.
> 
> Either way, I'll be interested to see what they come out with - as I am with all of the brands.


I agree. I had all the carbon hoyt bows. They were nice but my carbon air ECS is by far better, lighter, faster and with more adjustability. Plus I paid $300 less for it brand new compared to any hoyt carbon. 


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## Tacoma#12

I'll pay for Hoyt whatever the price. Good bows, solid and tack drivers. I hope they keep spirals cams on target line to. Shot a few PSE bows and IMO they suck. But each to his own. I just don't like any bow with 80 85% let off. Makes me lazy in the shot. But Hoyt and Matthews is hard to beat,, and I don't see me shooting anything else. But these prices are crazy. Anther 2 years or so be paying $2000 for a carbon hunting rig.


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## sneak1413

Tacoma#12 said:


> I'll pay for Hoyt whatever the price. Good bows, solid and tack drivers. I hope they keep spirals cams on target line to. Shot a few PSE bows and IMO they suck. But each to his own. I just don't like any bow with 80 85% let off. Makes me lazy in the shot. But Hoyt and Matthews is hard to beat,, and I don't see me shooting anything else. But these prices are crazy. Anther 2 years or so be paying $2000 for a carbon hunting rig.


You do realize these Hoyt and Mathews bows you speak of come with 80%+ letoff and the PSE's you speak so poorly of are able to be adjusted down to 65% right.....PSE has been known to be the low letoff bow brand for quite a few years now.


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## Kris87

I really thought they were going to come out with a binary "type" cam system last year. I had heard rumors they paid for the rights, but that was unconfirmed. I think eventually they will have to come out with something other than what they're doing with their current hybrids.


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## cowdocdvm

Definitely out of the Hoyt market then. Have a perfectly good 2014 carbon spyder 34 and a prevail fx. This will be the first year in a long time that I don't buy new and that says something


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## KamoKid14

sneak1413 said:


> You do realize these Hoyt and Mathews bows you speak of come with 80%+ letoff and the PSE's you speak so poorly of are able to be adjusted down to 65% right.....PSE has been known to be the low letoff bow brand for quite a few years now.


I have come to the conclusion that most people who talk like that don't do their research before speaking, probably haven't shot said bow before, and are generally of the fanboy variety. Anyways, really liking the specs on these new bows. Hoyt has definitely had a lackluster year for sure. I'm definitely intrigued though right now but those prices are kind of hard to swallow especially the carbon.


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## Dunndm1

BowHood said:


> Glad I got my Carbon Spyder 34 when I did.


Me and you both. Got the 34 ZT love that bow, no reason for me to change 


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## ruffme

Looks like my carbon spyder is the bow for me again this year!


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## fountain

I am really hoping they will come out with a dam system comparable to the evolve cam. I can't believe I ever swapped to pse, but I did and am liking my carbon air more and more. If the price rumors are true, then I will likely be out again this year. I can t believe I'm even thinking that, but I would have to be something completely new all the way around for me to swap back. I hope "re-engineered cam system doesn't mean a newer version of what they already have out now


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## Neokane

Wow, was hoping to upgrade from my '14 Faktor 34 to a new carbon.. But idk. Aren't the new cams a little slower than the z5?


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## KMiha

KamoKid14 said:


> I have come to the conclusion that most people who talk like that don't do their research before speaking, probably haven't shot said bow before, and are generally of the fanboy variety. Anyways, really liking the specs on these new bows. Hoyt has definitely had a lackluster year for sure. I'm definitely intrigued though right now but those prices are kind of hard to swallow especially the carbon.


Well, he's right the PSE bows can go down to 65%, especially this year's models. The Halon 32s can go from 75%-85%, and I would imagine the Hoyts are probably 75%.

So, if you're telling him he's wrong, then maybe you are of the "fanboy variety," who hasn't done research and hasn't "shot said bow before"


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## sneak1413

KMiha said:


> Well, he's right the PSE bows can go down to 65%, especially this year's models. The Halon 32s can go from 75%-85%, and I would imagine the Hoyts are probably 75%.
> 
> So, if you're telling him he's wrong, then maybe you are of the "fanboy variety," who hasn't done research and hasn't "shot said bow before"


According to Hoyt their dfx cam is an 80% letoff cam.....Last I heard the halons are shipping with 85% mods....so......


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## Captjock

Kris87 said:


> I really thought they were going to come out with a binary "type" cam system last year. I had heard rumors they paid for the rights, but that was unconfirmed. I think eventually they will have to come out with something other than what they're doing with their current hybrids.


I hope not, no binary!


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## KamoKid14

KMiha said:


> Well, he's right the PSE bows can go down to 65%, especially this year's models. The Halon 32s can go from 75%-85%, and I would imagine the Hoyts are probably 75%.
> 
> So, if you're telling him he's wrong, then maybe you are of the "fanboy variety," who hasn't done research and hasn't "shot said bow before"


I meant the guy he quoted not sneak1413. I thought it copied the whole thing my bad.


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## Doebuster

They better do something quick there sales are plummeting ! Theres only so many ways to redesign the infamous tech riser !


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## jdoc

Is there a link anyone can post so that we can get a look at the sneak peek of the specks??


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## paarchhntr

They better step their game up proportionate to the price increase or it will be ugly.


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## Tacoma#12

sneak1413 said:


> You do realize these Hoyt and Mathews bows you speak of come with 80%+ letoff and the PSE's you speak so poorly of are able to be adjusted down to 65% right.....PSE has been known to be the low letoff bow brand for quite a few years now.


I’m just partial to Hoyt and Matthews. Girlfriend has a PSE and she loves it. I went with her to find a bow and I let her pick what she wanted. When she picked PSE I didn’t say anything negative about it at all. I wanted her to choose her own and that’s what she did.


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## jdoc

Glad i picked up a used defiant this year, looks like it will be the last bow i own for a while with a price tag like that.


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## mrbirdog

500 for a driver, 900 for a set of new irons, 200 for 2 specialty wedges and 350 for a new putter total 1950.00 vs 1600-1700 carbon bow (with nothing on it !!!)
I sure play a lot more golf than I do bow hunt. The hunt season is only so long.......
Makes me glad I bought a new in the box 2015 Carbon Spyder for 900.00 to the door off EBAY (could not be happier)
May be awhile before I upgrade, money is not the problem, just trying to justify spending that much is....
And this coming from a die hard Hoyt fan boy
Mrbirdog


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## KamoKid14

jdoc said:


> Is there a link anyone can post so that we can get a look at the sneak peek of the specks??


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## BTtuner

Let me take a crazy wild guess. A 32" and 34" aluminum bow and a 32" and 34" carbon bow with a revolutionary new cam with a catchy cool name that isn't really different from the year before and adds no new technology like timing marks or even adjustable draw stops. I know its a crazy guess and you may think i'm loco for even thinking of such a never done before lineup.


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## bruno82

sneak1413 said:


> KMiha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he's right the PSE bows can go down to 65%, especially this year's models. The Halon 32s can go from 75%-85%, and I would imagine the Hoyts are probably 75%.
> 
> So, if you're telling him he's wrong, then maybe you are of the "fanboy variety," who hasn't done research and hasn't "shot said bow before"
> 
> 
> 
> According to Hoyt their dfx cam is an 80% letoff cam.....Last I heard the halons are shipping with 85% mods....so......
Click to expand...

Lol he almost agrees with your point, and has no idea about Hoyt's let off and postulates you being a fanboy smh wow...I'm so confused


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## RavinHood

I was told that hoyt carbon bows are being made in america now and thats why we are seeing a price increase


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## Bluemax61

Scotsbowhunter said:


> Ridiculous prices!


*AMEN!!!!* :fuming:


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## remyrw

Eh, I'm still waiting on target bow info. A revamped Hyper Edge sounds pretty nice. Doubt I'll be in the market for that one, since I'm in the "buy a year or two old and let someone else eat the big depreciation" camp, but a sufficiently changed model will motivate more folks to put their old ones on the market and drop the price a good bit. I'm looking at a Hyper Edge or 40" Podium or Prevail, but it comes down to what I can find locally and price for me. I'm just in this for recreation, so the bucks for a new bow just doesn't make sense. A slight competitive edge is meaningless to me since I'm not good enough for the improvement to matter, and I'm only competing against myself.
I look at the release info as news on what I'll be shooting a couple years from now, and what will drive down prices, hopefully, on what I'm already looking for.


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## thetracker3

paid 900 for my carbon defiant brand new last year off the wall. looks like ill be shooting it a couple years


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## Dunndm1

KamoKid14 said:


> View attachment 6260811


So there isn't any long draw bows? Highest is 28-31?


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## Predator

Actually a 32" ATA aluminum would be VERY different.

They've been on the 30" and 34" train with a 33" turbo version for many years - ever since the AM32 which was, I believe, their last 32" ATA flagship. I hate that they've been stuck on that train as I don't like the 30" and the 34" is slower and puts me in a bad cam position. Breaking out of that mold might be a good thing but they'll need a lot more than that to justify the prices, especially after a weak year and seeing what the high prices did to elite (not good).


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## Predator

Kris87 said:


> I really thought they were going to come out with a binary "type" cam system last year. I had heard rumors they paid for the rights, but that was unconfirmed. I think eventually they will have to come out with something other than what they're doing with their current hybrids.


Question to ponder:

Is the hybrid a dying cam?

It happened to the solo cam - Mathews held out as long as they could but the market was going elsewhere so they had to give in. Seems like the same thing could be happening with the hybrid. Almost everyone has gone away from it - Hoyt and Xpedition are really the only 2 holdouts of note. Easier drawing systems that are balanced and stay in tune better than a hybrid seem to have captured everyone's attention vs. the hybrid. I've been shooting the evolve cam which is really impressive frankly. Easier, in a lot of ways, than a hybrid and smoother drawing for sure.

Interesting question I hadn't thought of until now. I sort of wonder if it will be as hard to find a hybrid cam bow in a few years as it is to find a single cam bow now (and I mean top of the line bow - not budget bow).


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## Luv2shoot3D

Ok when is the release date going to be


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## Predator

Ad shown on the brand page is interesting - looks like lots of changes and a big splash planned. Lots of talk on totally new cam system - sounds very different than what's been offered in the past. Maybe not a hybrid? Very interested to see and like the 32" ATA option - have to see the rest of the package.


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## primal-bow

Predator said:


> Actually a 32" ATA aluminum would be VERY different.
> 
> They've been on the 30" and 34" train with a 33" turbo version for many years - ever since the AM32 which was, I believe, their last 32" ATA flagship. I hate that they've been stuck on that train as I don't like the 30" and the 34" is slower and puts me in a bad cam position. Breaking out of that mold might be a good thing but they'll need a lot more than that to justify the prices, especially after a weak year and seeing what the high prices did to elite (not good).


i believe the last 32" was the CRX32?


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## Kammeg

Luv2shoot3D said:


> Ok when is the release date going to be


Website says 10/24/17


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## skynight

Predator said:


> Question to ponder:
> 
> Is the hybrid a dying cam?
> 
> It happened to the solo cam - Mathews held out as long as they could but the market was going elsewhere so they had to give in. Seems like the same thing could be happening with the hybrid. Almost everyone has gone away from it - Hoyt and Xpedition are really the only 2 holdouts of note. Easier drawing systems that are balanced and stay in tune better than a hybrid seem to have captured everyone's attention vs. the hybrid. I've been shooting the evolve cam which is really impressive frankly. Easier, in a lot of ways, than a hybrid and smoother drawing for sure.
> 
> Interesting question I hadn't thought of until now. I sort of wonder if it will be as hard to find a hybrid cam bow in a few years as it is to find a single cam bow now (and I mean top of the line bow - not budget bow).


Maybe they will come out with a dual cam bow. It's really all the bowtech system is, BS aside.
These no yoke systems are not for me.


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## lee31

Predator said:


> Actually a 32" ATA aluminum would be VERY different.
> 
> They've been on the 30" and 34" train with a 33" turbo version for many years - ever since the AM32 which was, I believe, their last 32" ATA flagship. I hate that they've been stuck on that train as I don't like the 30" and the 34" is slower and puts me in a bad cam position. Breaking out of that mold might be a good thing but they'll need a lot more than that to justify the prices, especially after a weak year and seeing what the high prices did to elite (not good).


I believe the last 32 inch aluminum flagship bow was the Vector 32. 2012 I think


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## Larry brown

skynight said:


> Maybe they will come out with a dual cam bow. It's really all the bowtech system is, BS aside.
> These no yoke systems are not for me.


Amen I like my yokes. But I’m just shooting a older bow so it is what it is. May pick up a 34 Defiant when y’all buy they new and dump em.


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## KamoKid14

Dunndm1 said:


> So there isn't any long draw bows? Highest is 28-31?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk











Yes the #4 cam goes to 32 on the 35 ata bow. Not sure if they'll keep the Double XL or have something new for the long draw guys


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## CTX762

Hate to see a hike in cost but I'm eager to see what they actually turn out this year.


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## primal-bow

lee31 said:


> I believe the last 32 inch aluminum flagship bow was the Vector 32. 2012 I think


you are right!


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## Dunndm1

KamoKid14 said:


> View attachment 6261003
> 
> 
> Yes the #4 cam goes to 32 on the 35 ata bow. Not sure if they'll keep the Double XL or have something new for the long draw guys


That better. Thank you very much. I'm shooting a 34 spyder ZT and I'm on maxed out/no grip with Dloop and it's the best bow I've ever shot. Hopefully they get another bow out this year that I can do the same thing too 


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## Gruder

They made the crx in 2011 and 2012 so your both right. I have a crx 32, it's a nice size


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## Q2DEATH

Predator said:


> Question to ponder:
> 
> Is the hybrid a dying cam?
> 
> It happened to the solo cam - Mathews held out as long as they could but the market was going elsewhere so they had to give in. Seems like the same thing could be happening with the hybrid. Almost everyone has gone away from it - Hoyt and Xpedition are really the only 2 holdouts of note. Easier drawing systems that are balanced and stay in tune better than a hybrid seem to have captured everyone's attention vs. the hybrid. I've been shooting the evolve cam which is really impressive frankly. Easier, in a lot of ways, than a hybrid and smoother drawing for sure.
> 
> Interesting question I hadn't thought of until now. I sort of wonder if it will be as hard to find a hybrid cam bow in a few years as it is to find a single cam bow now (and I mean top of the line bow - not budget bow).



How is the evolve cam easier than a hybrid? Yoke makes tuning very quick and easy and after a hundred shots or so the cams stay dialed in.


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## BucksnBass525

32" ATA is a nice size, you got my attention......


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## Otdrsman85

I am really happy with my Carbon Spyder FX. I like the dfx cam and was debating picking up a carbon defiant 34. Ill hold off to see what they offer but the dfx cam is a perfect fit for me

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## brtesite

if you are looking for an all carbon bow, get a Win & Win .They run about $900.00 easiest to shoot & tune


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## V-TRAIN

man, i wish that carbon 35 was as fast as the 32.


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## Kris87

Predator said:


> Question to ponder:
> 
> Is the hybrid a dying cam?
> 
> It happened to the solo cam - Mathews held out as long as they could but the market was going elsewhere so they had to give in. Seems like the same thing could be happening with the hybrid. Almost everyone has gone away from it - Hoyt and Xpedition are really the only 2 holdouts of note. Easier drawing systems that are balanced and stay in tune better than a hybrid seem to have captured everyone's attention vs. the hybrid. I've been shooting the evolve cam which is really impressive frankly. Easier, in a lot of ways, than a hybrid and smoother drawing for sure.
> 
> Interesting question I hadn't thought of until now. I sort of wonder if it will be as hard to find a hybrid cam bow in a few years as it is to find a single cam bow now (and I mean top of the line bow - not budget bow).


I too am shooting the Evolve cam bows this year, and plan on doing so with the new PSE offerings too. I have been (and still am) a huge hybrid cam fan. I feel like they are one of the most accurate cam systems, as still being proven with Hoyts target line. Hybrids continue to shoot well even if specs get out of whack a tad. I hate to admit it, but the clunk and chunk type cam systems with the big letoff have been a huge hit with the hunting crowd. Its why Elite jumped in so big quickly, and same with Obsession. But that system too has limitations. Only so much you can do performance wise and keep it comfortable. Its really the same rut that Hoyt's been in. Only so much speed they could squeeze out of their hybrids and keep a fairly smooth draw. I'll give PSE (well Darton) and Bowtech credit for at least having a cam system that offers a little bit of everything. I think the other big players will have to offer a new system to compete.


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## Whitetail88Arch

Why in the world won't they offer the Turbo in 70-80lb?!?! Damn it


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## Dunndm1

Whitetail88Arch said:


> Why in the world won't they offer the Turbo in 70-80lb?!?! Damn it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It'll be too fast [emoji23]


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## MBG Hunter

Dunndm1 said:


> Whitetail88Arch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why in the world won't they offer the Turbo in 70-80lb?!?! Damn it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> It'll be too fast [emoji23]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


There ain't such a thing as to fast! 

To be honest I wish they would offer such a beast as well.


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## Doebuster

Let's see some pics !!!


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## Predator

Q2DEATH said:


> How is the evolve cam easier than a hybrid? Yoke makes tuning very quick and easy and after a hundred shots or so the cams stay dialed in.


Oh that’s easy. I used to also be under the foolish belief that yokes were much better.

Two key points.

Let’s recognize that the average guy who buys a bow doesn’t have a press and hasn’t a clue about yoke tuning other otherwise. Most binary cam bows don’t require any shimming etc. They can be tuned to a reasonable center shot with simple rest adjustments – something the average guy can do. I would say most hybrid cam bows require yoke tuning of some sort and that requires a press. So the dealer may or may not yoke tune it for the guy when he buys a new bow. If he does, the bow is guaranteed to be out of tune a month later and unless the archer realizes that (I would say most won’t) he will be shooting an out of tune bow and if the dealer doesn’t yoke tune it it’s almost guaranteed to be out of tune so either way, the guy ends up with an out of tune bow. Yes, there is the risk that a binary requires shimming (although there is technically that risk with a hybrid but people can compensate for bad bottom cam lean with enough yoke tuning - just not ideal). I had to shim one of my Obsession bows. Yes, a bit of a pain but a good learning experience and a one-time deal. That bow won’t require shimming ever again in its life whereas a hybrid will require yoke tuning every time you change string/cables. So going back to the average guy he either walks away with a bow that is easy to tune or he has a bow that needs shimming and can be done once by the guy at the shop and he’ll never have to worry about it again.

The second point is that binary cam bows are balanced systems whereas a hybrid is way out of balance. There is far more pressure on the buss cable than the control cable with a hybrid and that WILL cause unequal stretch. It’s why you have to shoot in a hybrid and re-adjust a time or two. But even then, over time, you’ll need to tweak it a bit more. I don’t care how good your cables are – I shoot the absolute best aftermarket you can get and always have but I’ll guarantee you that buss cable will stretch in small increments over time and require adjustment to keep cams in sync and nock travel proper. It’s usually very small adjustments such that you can’t twist the cable half twist – you actually need to adjust it via yoke twisting (on both sides to keep it in tune laterally). With a binary you can tune it once and not worry going forward as it’s a perfectly balanced system. Now, a hybrid doesn’t bother me because I have lots of experience with it and can check and quickly retune as necessary but that’s not true for the average guy.

That’s why I say a binary is maybe even easier than a hybrid and I suspect anyone that has experience tuning both systems would agree. Both work just fine and I have nothing against either type of system but I now think it’s foolish to think a yoke system is categorically better because there are clearly areas where a binary can outshine a hybrid.


----------



## Adamsdjr

Predator said:


> Oh that’s easy. I used to also be under the foolish belief that yokes were much better.
> 
> Two key points.
> 
> Let’s recognize that the average guy who buys a bow doesn’t have a press and hasn’t a clue about yoke tuning other otherwise. Most binary cam bows don’t require any shimming etc. They can be tuned to a reasonable center shot with simple rest adjustments – something the average guy can do. I would say most hybrid cam bows require yoke tuning of some sort and that requires a press. So the dealer may or may not yoke tune it for the guy when he buys a new bow. If he does, the bow is guaranteed to be out of tune a month later and unless the archer realizes that (I would say most won’t) he will be shooting an out of tune bow and if the dealer doesn’t yoke tune it it’s almost guaranteed to be out of tune so either way, the guy ends up with an out of tune bow. Yes, there is the risk that a binary requires shimming (although there is technically that risk with a hybrid but people can compensate for bad bottom cam lean with enough yoke tuning - just not ideal). I had to shim one of my Obsession bows. Yes, a bit of a pain but a good learning experience and a one-time deal. That bow won’t require shimming ever again in its life whereas a hybrid will require yoke tuning every time you change string/cables. So going back to the average guy he either walks away with a bow that is easy to tune or he has a bow that needs shimming and can be done once by the guy at the shop and he’ll never have to worry about it again.
> 
> The second point is that binary cam bows are balanced systems whereas a hybrid is way out of balance. There is far more pressure on the buss cable than the control cable with a hybrid and that WILL cause unequal stretch. It’s why you have to shoot in a hybrid and re-adjust a time or two. But even then, over time, you’ll need to tweak it a bit more. I don’t care how good your cables are – I shoot the absolute best aftermarket you can get and always have but I’ll guarantee you that buss cable will stretch in small increments over time and require adjustment to keep cams in sync and nock travel proper. It’s usually very small adjustments such that you can’t twist the cable half twist – you actually need to adjust it via yoke twisting (on both sides to keep it in tune laterally). With a binary you can tune it once and not worry going forward as it’s a perfectly balanced system. Now, a hybrid doesn’t bother me because I have lots of experience with it and can check and quickly retune as necessary but that’s not true for the average guy.
> 
> That’s why I say a binary is maybe even easier than a hybrid and I suspect anyone that has experience tuning both systems would agree. Both work just fine and I have nothing against either type of system but I now think it’s foolish to think a yoke system is categorically better because there are clearly areas where a binary can outshine a hybrid.


I agree with what you posted and once a binary is tuned you are good to go. But my experience so far with the Evolve cams so far has not been fun from a tuning perspective. I have had 3 and all have had to be shimmed. Nock left, bare shaft hitting right of Fletched has been the problem for each of them. One was a 35 that Breathn set up. It was shimmed all the way to the left with only a .010 shim between the Cam and limbs on top and bottom, cable guard with max tension, rest just inside 3/4”. It was still picky and John found one Carnivore with just the right combo of spine, insert and point weight and arrow length that would work. I have Hydrids for Hoyt and Xpedition that are not picky at all when set up, can shoot the same arrow from 72 to 60#. The only thing we did not do was swap limbs on that Evolve 35 and that is because the PSE tech said we had them correct as is, so we would have been guessing and hoping with limb swaps. The second Evolve Cam is a Carbon Air 34,it finally tuned OK when shimmed all the way to the left, rest at 3/4”. Still working on an Evolve 31, once again bare shafts hit right. It is shimmed all the way left again and the rest a little inside 3/4” and bare shafts are still a touch nock left and hit right of Fletched, only thing left to do is swap limbs around but once again they are currently correct according to PSE. I have never had this much of a problem tuning a hybrid. I love the draw cycle on the Evolve cams and the speed you get with them, but for me they have been a royal PIA to tune. Before you think it is me and not the bow, I don’t have any problem with bare shafts hitting right on any of several other bows. In fact if I’m off I usually get a left impact. Had a guy that has been on several podiums shoot one of them and they went right for him too. This is not a nock on the binary cams as I have not had any issues with getting an Elite or Obsession to tune, although some have been shimmed. If I ever get another Evolve Cam bow I’m send the guy my Fletched and Bare Shaft arrows, when he gets the hitting together at 20 yards with the rest in a standard position I’ll take delivery.


----------



## Doebuster

I know somebody has some pics ! Let's see em !


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## ex-wolverine

On Facebook


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## Kris87

Adamsdjr said:


> I agree with what you posted and once a binary is tuned you are good to go. But my experience so far with the Evolve cams so far has not been fun from a tuning perspective. I have had 3 and all have had to be shimmed. Nock left, bare shaft hitting right of Fletched has been the problem for each of them. One was a 35 that Breathn set up. It was shimmed all the way to the left with only a .010 shim between the Cam and limbs on top and bottom, cable guard with max tension, rest just inside 3/4”. It was still picky and John found one Carnivore with just the right combo of spine, insert and point weight and arrow length that would work. I have Hydrids for Hoyt and Xpedition that are not picky at all when set up, can shoot the same arrow from 72 to 60#. The only thing we did not do was swap limbs on that Evolve 35 and that is because the PSE tech said we had them correct as is, so we would have been guessing and hoping with limb swaps. The second Evolve Cam is a Carbon Air 34,it finally tuned OK when shimmed all the way to the left, rest at 3/4”. Still working on an Evolve 31, once again bare shafts hit right. It is shimmed all the way left again and the rest a little inside 3/4” and bare shafts are still a touch nock left and hit right of Fletched, only thing left to do is swap limbs around but once again they are currently correct according to PSE. I have never had this much of a problem tuning a hybrid. I love the draw cycle on the Evolve cams and the speed you get with them, but for me they have been a royal PIA to tune. Before you think it is me and not the bow, I don’t have any problem with bare shafts hitting right on any of several other bows. In fact if I’m off I usually get a left impact. Had a guy that has been on several podiums shoot one of them and they went right for him too. This is not a nock on the binary cams as I have not had any issues with getting an Elite or Obsession to tune, although some have been shimmed. If I ever get another Evolve Cam bow I’m send the guy my Fletched and Bare Shaft arrows, when he gets the hitting together at 20 yards with the rest in a standard position I’ll take delivery.


I wouldn't ever be one to say it was you, but I do find it out of the norm for all of your bows to be having left tears. I've tuned a lot of the Evolve cams and every one I've had my hands on all had right tears if they weren't perfect. Just food for thought. I haven't had any issues with my two CA34's or the PSE rep's personal bows which I also tuned. Hopefully you get them all worked out.


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## BucksnBass525

ex-wolverine said:


> On Facebook


Very very interesting.....................................


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## nestly

KamoKid14 said:


> View attachment 6261003


3" draw length range?... so this will be a new cam from Hoyt....


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## KamoKid14

nestly said:


> 3" draw length range?... so this will be a new cam from Hoyt....


I would assume so since as far as I know there hasn't been a #4 cam.


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## Shockwave31

Subbed for updates

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## Doebuster

I don't know how we ended up in a tuning seminar ? Let's see the 2018 Hoyt's I know somebody has pics !


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## EricCleland

Anyone know brace height on these new models


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## EricCleland

Anyone know brace heights for these new models 


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## Luv2shoot3D

EricCleland said:


> Anyone know brace heights for these new models
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We got the ata already so let's see what brace is


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## Dunndm1

ex-wolverine said:


> On Facebook


You trying to make me anxious?! 


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## HoosierArcher88

EricCleland said:


> Anyone know brace heights for these new models
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My guess is 6.75” on the 340 ata models. And 5.75-6” on the turbos.


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## MAD 6

Wow they are offering 90% letoff to compete with PSE?


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## erichall84

Predator said:


> Question to ponder:
> 
> Is the hybrid a dying cam?
> 
> It happened to the solo cam - Mathews held out as long as they could but the market was going elsewhere so they had to give in. Seems like the same thing could be happening with the hybrid. Almost everyone has gone away from it - Hoyt and Xpedition are really the only 2 holdouts of note. Easier drawing systems that are balanced and stay in tune better than a hybrid seem to have captured everyone's attention vs. the hybrid. I've been shooting the evolve cam which is really impressive frankly. Easier, in a lot of ways, than a hybrid and smoother drawing for sure.
> 
> Interesting question I hadn't thought of until now. I sort of wonder if it will be as hard to find a hybrid cam bow in a few years as it is to find a single cam bow now (and I mean top of the line bow - not budget bow).


I don't think so but then again I still think there is a market for single cam bows. My favorite Mathews bows were all solocams. Imo the hybrid is an improved version of the solocam. By the way most of Pse's bows are also hybrids. I think Hoyt should stick with the hybrid myself, but I do think they could make them better. Adjustable draw stops, eliminate the different draw length based cams and have a full range rotating module like pse and bowtech use. I appreciate all the different cam systems myself.

Sent from my SM-J327T1 using Tapatalk


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## erichall84

primal-bow said:


> i believe the last 32" was the CRX32?


Vector 32

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## Adamsdjr

Kris87 said:


> I wouldn't ever be one to say it was you, but I do find it out of the norm for all of your bows to be having left tears. I've tuned a lot of the Evolve cams and every one I've had my hands on all had right tears if they weren't perfect. Just food for thought. I haven't had any issues with my two CA34's or the PSE rep's personal bows which I also tuned. Hopefully you get them all worked out.


Only my Evolves, not my Xpedition’s, Hoyt’s, or Elites. Breathn had the same left tear with the same bow. I really wanted it to be me. I’ve been following guys posting that they are having trouble tuning Evolves and 9 out of 10 have a left tear. It still could be a spine issue with the 31 I’m working on now. They seem to like a weaker spine that would be expected.

Do you shoot bare shafts at 20 to 25 yards with the Evolves you have tuned. The tears were slight through paper.


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## EricCleland

Wow that is something gonna be interesting what they come up wih


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## btmonnat

That is crazy. Bought an obsession turmoil after selling my carbon spyder. Shot better this summer than ever. Best part only give 650$ new for turmoil.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


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## golfernash

Liking the thought of a high let off Carbon 35. Hopefully the grip and the cams are improved


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## ShootnBlind

Predator said:


> Prices are out of control.
> 
> Funny thing is the PSE carbon Stealth will probably bury the Hoyt carbon heads up and at a meaningfully lower price.
> 
> Hoyt has seemed like maybe the least talked about big brand over the last year. They seem to have become somewhat irrelevant on a relative basis (this comment will probably confuse and irritate fanboys - lol - JMO) over the past year (this coming from a guy who used to love Hoyt bows). They need to make a big splash this year or it may get worse.
> 
> Either way, I'll be interested to see what they come out with - as I am with all of the brands.


Agreed, I've been a long time Hoyt fan and shooter but I switched to the Evolve 35 and won't look back. I am interested in the Stealth with the ECS cams. I will shoot it before deciding but it would be nice to have a carbon bow again. My Evolve puts the rest to shame. Smooth draw tons of speed and the let off makes it ideal from the stand. Still anticipating the new Hoyts though. I want to shoot them for sure.


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## ShootnBlind

Kris87 said:


> I wouldn't ever be one to say it was you, but I do find it out of the norm for all of your bows to be having left tears. I've tuned a lot of the Evolve cams and every one I've had my hands on all had right tears if they weren't perfect. Just food for thought. I haven't had any issues with my two CA34's or the PSE rep's personal bows which I also tuned. Hopefully you get them all worked out.


I had a left tear with 400 spine at 58 lbs. I went to 350 spine and cleared it right up. I think the cams even though high let off are more aggressive than they feel and that contributes to the underspining.


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## Adamsdjr

ShootnBlind said:


> I had a left tear with 400 spine at 58 lbs. I went to 350 spine and cleared it right up. I think the cams even though high let off are more aggressive than they feel and that contributes to the underspining.


Thanks, I’ll run some 250’s and see if that helps.


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## Larry brown

I don’t understand the high let off. I just can’t shoot well with a bow with a high let off. 80% is what I was used to but with my target bow I like 65-70 and my Nitrum is around 75 and I just hold better and make a cleaner shot. I have to shot the PSE Evolve because I like the bows I have and the grips on the Hoyt’s with side plates are great for me. I would like to see a 35 ATA Turbo option in aluminum. Have had 2 carbons and just not the bow for me. 
I do like the wider draw range of the cams. That’s where I would like having a PSE because when I got tired of it my son could shoot it!


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## zekezoe

^^ i hope hoyt doesn't go to that 90% letoff crap.


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## Midman03

uphunter said:


> Just got my sneak peek form from Hoyt, $1200 for the new aluminum hunting bow and $1699 on the carbon hunting model, this in my mind is going to kill my Hoyt sales even further.


$1699 ukey:


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## Predator

Larry brown said:


> I don’t understand the high let off. I just can’t shoot well with a bow with a high let off. 80% is what I was used to but with my target bow I like 65-70 and my Nitrum is around 75 and I just hold better and make a cleaner shot. I have to shot the PSE Evolve because I like the bows I have and the grips on the Hoyt’s with side plates are great for me. I would like to see a 35 ATA Turbo option in aluminum. Have had 2 carbons and just not the bow for me.
> I do like the wider draw range of the cams. That’s where I would like having a PSE because when I got tired of it my son could shoot it!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The PSE bows can go 90, 85, 80, 75, 70, 65 - options to fit every preference.


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## Predator

Adamsdjr said:


> I agree with what you posted and once a binary is tuned you are good to go. But my experience so far with the Evolve cams so far has not been fun from a tuning perspective. I have had 3 and all have had to be shimmed. Nock left, bare shaft hitting right of Fletched has been the problem for each of them. One was a 35 that Breathn set up. It was shimmed all the way to the left with only a .010 shim between the Cam and limbs on top and bottom, cable guard with max tension, rest just inside 3/4”. It was still picky and John found one Carnivore with just the right combo of spine, insert and point weight and arrow length that would work. I have Hydrids for Hoyt and Xpedition that are not picky at all when set up, can shoot the same arrow from 72 to 60#. The only thing we did not do was swap limbs on that Evolve 35 and that is because the PSE tech said we had them correct as is, so we would have been guessing and hoping with limb swaps. The second Evolve Cam is a Carbon Air 34,it finally tuned OK when shimmed all the way to the left, rest at 3/4”. Still working on an Evolve 31, once again bare shafts hit right. It is shimmed all the way left again and the rest a little inside 3/4” and bare shafts are still a touch nock left and hit right of Fletched, only thing left to do is swap limbs around but once again they are currently correct according to PSE. I have never had this much of a problem tuning a hybrid. I love the draw cycle on the Evolve cams and the speed you get with them, but for me they have been a royal PIA to tune. Before you think it is me and not the bow, I don’t have any problem with bare shafts hitting right on any of several other bows. In fact if I’m off I usually get a left impact. Had a guy that has been on several podiums shoot one of them and they went right for him too. This is not a nock on the binary cams as I have not had any issues with getting an Elite or Obsession to tune, although some have been shimmed. If I ever get another Evolve Cam bow I’m send the guy my Fletched and Bare Shaft arrows, when he gets the hitting together at 20 yards with the rest in a standard position I’ll take delivery.


Don't know what to tell you other than that your experience is odd. John set up my Evolve 31 and he's done a bunch of ECS cam bows that tune to perfection. When I tuned my evolve 31 I had no such problem. I initially had a right tear (all opposite of you) but easily tuned it out and got bare shafts and fixed blades all working great. The thing tunes and shoots like a dream and I've heard tons of stories of the same with the ECS bows - your experience is very much the exception vs the rule.


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## Adamsdjr

Predator said:


> Don't know what to tell you other than that your experience is odd. John set up my Evolve 31 and he's done a bunch of ECS cam bows that tune to perfection. When I tuned my evolve 31 I had no such problem. I initially had a right tear (all opposite of you) but easily tuned it out and got bare shafts and fixed blades all working great. The thing tunes and shoots like a dream and I've heard tons of stories of the same with the ECS bows - your experience is very much the exception vs the rule.


Not as odd as you think. Lots of threads over the last six months on setting up Evolves where guys have had to shim and swap limbs, most were left tears. Most guys never shoot bare shafts and even a fletched broadhead, let alone a mechanical can hide a tuning problem. Glad the one sample you have worked out OK. I’m also thinking that Long draw lengths are more problematic as many of the tuning issues reported were 29” plus. Big difference in how a bow reacts going from 27.5” to 30”. On the CA 34 that finally tuned the draw cycle and performance is really nice, just not fun to get to that point. I hope the new riser design helps.
I’ll be interested to see what Hoyt comes up with.


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## zekezoe

Predator said:


> The PSE bows can go 90, 85, 80, 75, 70, 65 - options to fit every preference.


yes, but 100 bucks is steep for the mods


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## V-TRAIN

zekezoe said:


> yes, but 100 bucks is steep for the mods


cheaper than a new bow


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## BucksnBass525

Predator said:


> Don't know what to tell you other than that your experience is odd. John set up my Evolve 31 and he's done a bunch of ECS cam bows that tune to perfection. When I tuned my evolve 31 I had no such problem. I initially had a right tear (all opposite of you) but easily tuned it out and got bare shafts and fixed blades all working great. The thing tunes and shoots like a dream and I've heard tons of stories of the same with the ECS bows - your experience is very much the exception vs the rule.


This^^^^^^^^^^ the guys here at the local pro shops are raving about how easy the ECS tunes.
My 31 and 35 were both one and done.


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## shooter6687

Otdrsman85 said:


> I am really happy with my Carbon Spyder FX. I like the dfx cam and was debating picking up a carbon defiant 34. Ill hold off to see what they offer but the dfx cam is a perfect fit for me
> 
> Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk


I have a 2015 Carbon Spyder 34 ZT and a 2017 Carbon Defiant 34 I will hold on to them . 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## huntertroy

Pretty steep price but I still can't wait to see what they come out with and knowing myself I will probably own one for at least a little while lol


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## Conway200

Hoping to scoop up cd34 someone dumps


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## MELLY-MEL

For me it will be tough to beat my carbon defiant


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## radpuppy

That will prolly put me out of the hoyt business 


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## NCBuckNBass

Or you could just buy a duel yoke Bowtech and not go through the theatrics.


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## psychobaby111

Someone needs to post a picture


----------



## Dunndm1

Can we get some pics of the bows? Jeeze.... 


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## bambikiller

Pics


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## Doebuster

Cone on somebody we need pics !


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

Wonder if the turbo will have a different cam or if it will be like my Z5 and the 6 inch brace makes it a Turbo.


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## Captjock

There are no pics until Oct 24


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## Hoythunter01

Never been one to jump on the "New Bow" bandwagon.

I sit back and read about problems and how their new bow doesn't live up to the advertised hype. While the next guy starts a fight about how the other guy is wrong. 

Same story, different year.

I often wonder..... If Hoyt were to decide they weren't going to build new bows in 2019. Instead, let you chose the bow you wanted. Build it on their website and they assemble and build it.

2006 Ultratec riser with Podium limb pockets, grip system....etc.

Chose anything from 2004 to the present day. Combine parts, choose limbs, choose cams......

Wonder what the Pros would come up with ??


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## Aparchery#1

Mine only went up $25 from last year.


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## Aparchery#1

Not until they release them later this month.


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## Aparchery#1

Dunndm1 said:


> Can we get some pics of the bows? Jeeze....
> 
> 
> Not until Hoyt releases them later this month.


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## DeathF.above

Gotta pay to play. You don’t have to buy a new bow. You can get a perfectly good carbon bow for half that.


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## remyrw

Or shoot the one that was apparently just fine last season. Folks will buy them, no question. Not everyone will buy the top of the line model, and a lot of people will sit back and wait for the various bows to drop onto the used market a few months to a year later and pick them up at much lower prices even while they're the current lineup. Others will wait longer and are shopping for 2016 and 2017 models once the 2018's hit and people are clearing out their old stuff. Heck, folks are still buying much older bows that work just fine. A few hundred for a Maxxis or Alphamax or a bit more for a Nitrum... It isn't like a 2016 Carbon Defiant is suddenly not going to work because someone used it for one hunting season. If anything, it's had time to weed out the bad ones.


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## zenworks911

Where is Tiggie?


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## Dunndm1

remyrw said:


> Or shoot the one that was apparently just fine last season. Folks will buy them, no question. Not everyone will buy the top of the line model, and a lot of people will sit back and wait for the various bows to drop onto the used market a few months to a year later and pick them up at much lower prices even while they're the current lineup. Others will wait longer and are shopping for 2016 and 2017 models once the 2018's hit and people are clearing out their old stuff. Heck, folks are still buying much older bows that work just fine. A few hundred for a Maxxis or Alphamax or a bit more for a Nitrum... It isn't like a 2016 Carbon Defiant is suddenly not going to work because someone used it for one hunting season. If anything, it's had time to weed out the bad ones.


You just explained my buying strategy. I bought a carbon 34 ZT spyder and I've used it 2 years now and I bought it for 550. 1/4 what the original owner paid.. I like using the few year older model cause once I upgrade it's usually a huge difference


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## remyrw

Dunndm1 said:


> You just explained my buying strategy. I bought a carbon 34 ZT spyder and I've used it 2 years now and I bought it for 550. 1/4 what the original owner paid.. I like using the few year older model cause once I upgrade it's usually a huge difference
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ditto. I'm shooting a 2016 PSE Supra and while I like it, and don't have issues with it, I really want to switch to a Hoyt Podium 40 (flexible on exact model/year) or a Hyper Edge. I'm not against a new model, but I'd rather trade in my Supra and not STILL be adding $1000+ on a bow. I'm not a top tier shooter, I'm not making money at this and my shooting won't be that much better with the latest and greatest. Heck, I am pretty sure any actual score improvement will be purely placebo effect. I'm good with that, I just really like how the Hoyts look and are designed. It suits me. So I'll wait and watch for people to start dumping the older stuff once the new ones come out. I talked to my local shop and they know to call me if someone trades one in before they toss it up on ebay. I'll have to remember to ask about getting advanced notice for their Hoyt rep coming by too. I'd love to try out the new target bows just to know what they each feel like to me. I doubt I'd be talked into a new one, but again, next year... My shop doesn't have much in the way of target compounds despite having an active target community, just not enough volume to justify it, so trying stuff out can be tricky. I'm thinking about a drive down to Lancaster since I could check them out there and visit some friends in the area. Make a weekend of it.


----------



## ChappyHOYT

zenworks911 said:


> Where is Tiggie?


Ditto. He always has insider info:wink:


----------



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

Hoythunter01 said:


> Never been one to jump on the "New Bow" bandwagon.
> 
> I sit back and read about problems and how their new bow doesn't live up to the advertised hype. While the next guy starts a fight about how the other guy is wrong.
> 
> Same story, different year.
> 
> I often wonder..... If Hoyt were to decide they weren't going to build new bows in 2019. Instead, let you chose the bow you wanted. Build it on their website and they assemble and build it.
> 
> 2006 Ultratec riser with Podium limb pockets, grip system....etc.
> 
> Chose anything from 2004 to the present day. Combine parts, choose limbs, choose cams......
> 
> Wonder what the Pros would come up with ??


Not a pro in any way shape or form. But a long time Hoyt owner and my bow would always start with a cam first, grip second,axle 3rd. I'm a hunter only and have zero desire to shoot target. 

With that said, i'd say the Z5 cam was Hoyt's best cam ever made. I know there are people who like the second version of the 2.1 DFX cam,not me. Next, the grip of an Alpha Max riser but on a Carbon Spyder riser,,,,,which on it's own, feels kinda close especially with side plates, and make the bow 33 inches long 6 inch brace is fine and 350+ quiet as a whisper and vibe free. Doesn't get any better than that. 

I am think thins years cams are pretty exciting myself by the specs they are showing. I am going to be looking real hard @ a new hunting bow this year.


----------



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

Predator said:


> Question to ponder:
> 
> Is the hybrid a dying cam?
> 
> It happened to the solo cam - Mathews held out as long as they could but the market was going elsewhere so they had to give in. Seems like the same thing could be happening with the hybrid. Almost everyone has gone away from it - Hoyt and Xpedition are really the only 2 holdouts of note. Easier drawing systems that are balanced and stay in tune better than a hybrid seem to have captured everyone's attention vs. the hybrid. I've been shooting the evolve cam which is really impressive frankly. Easier, in a lot of ways, than a hybrid and smoother drawing for sure.
> 
> Interesting question I hadn't thought of until now. I sort of wonder if it will be as hard to find a hybrid cam bow in a few years as it is to find a single cam bow now (and I mean top of the line bow - not budget bow).


I do not think so at all. In fact, it is less expensive I think because of open patents and no more royalties ? 

I would venture to say the solo cam died because of cam efficiency, long azzz stringing . Single cams couldn't produce speeds and comfort as efficient as dual track/binary and Hybrids. Single cams hit the wall on efficiency. 

Between the Hybrid and lets call them binary's, the Hybrids were more readily developed because Bowtech kock blocked many other companies(original Elite) from using Rex's binary permission and develop the technology more. So mainly Hoyt and PSE really sunk R&D into Hybrid and really got some awesome stuff for us.

Moving to Binary, praise to Dennis Lewis for getting permissions from Rex to use on his Obsession and hiring Strother who was with Bowtech and Elite to use his designs and refine the binary.

Right now, it does appear the hybrid might be a more efficient cam system than the binary,by a tad. HOWEVER, something tells me, bow manufactorers are intrigued to develop the binary more because they simply haven't had their chance @ it yet. 

Let's not forget PSE came out with the hybrid system on their AR bow line in 2004. The bows rattled your teeth and got about 280 FPS on the 34 axle. today they are @ 360 FPS and developed string or limb stop.

Obsession has a bonafide 350 rating on their 6 inch brace binary. Something tells me there are bow designers with these PSE and Hoyt team that believe they can develop this system more,,,,or atleast would like to give it a shot.

So in the future, I think you're going to see hybrids 350-370 FPS, it's done practically already. Now you will see manufactorers dig into the binary as long as it's cost effective and look for that break thru that PSE found with the hybrid. Then when it's all said and done the end result will be what it is.

What i'm saying is, binary hasn't gotten the opportunity to be developed most universally like Hybrid was. Right now, binary has more upside to development. I still feel the hybrid is a more comfortable system to shoot, but thats just me. Speed is sex and sex sells. So the manufactorers owe it to themselves to atleast TRY to push the envelope in binary.


----------



## shabbos1

If they release a 34" or 35" ATA midrange bow similar to the Powermax, I'll be the first customer.


----------



## Str8shooter77

Would be nice if they put the prevail grip system on their hunting bows.


----------



## Dunndm1

remyrw said:


> Ditto. I'm shooting a 2016 PSE Supra and while I like it, and don't have issues with it, I really want to switch to a Hoyt Podium 40 (flexible on exact model/year) or a Hyper Edge. I'm not against a new model, but I'd rather trade in my Supra and not STILL be adding $1000+ on a bow. I'm not a top tier shooter, I'm not making money at this and my shooting won't be that much better with the latest and greatest. Heck, I am pretty sure any actual score improvement will be purely placebo effect. I'm good with that, I just really like how the Hoyts look and are designed. It suits me. So I'll wait and watch for people to start dumping the older stuff once the new ones come out. I talked to my local shop and they know to call me if someone trades one in before they toss it up on ebay. I'll have to remember to ask about getting advanced notice for their Hoyt rep coming by too. I'd love to try out the new target bows just to know what they each feel like to me. I doubt I'd be talked into a new one, but again, next year... My shop doesn't have much in the way of target compounds despite having an active target community, just not enough volume to justify it, so trying stuff out can be tricky. I'm thinking about a drive down to Lancaster since I could check them out there and visit some friends in the area. Make a weekend of it.


You are still better than I am I'm sure! Hahaha I hunt, or I'll hangout in my backyard with a few of my buddies and shoot and drinks a few beers. (Always responsible of course) but I do it for hunting or to have fun with my buddies. So for me it's really not about the latest and greatest at all 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## blance7

Captjock said:


> Carbons went up $50, Alum up $100, not out of line with any other top of the line bows. Sitka and Kuiu camos, new cams, new limb pockets, cable system, grips and new vibration dampening. Exciting!!



You had me at kuiu camos. I’ll take one in carbon turbo please


----------



## zekezoe

Str8shooter77 said:


> Would be nice if they put the prevail grip system on their hunting bows.


i think it is a good posibility


----------



## Had a Hoyt

Back in 2016 I bought a Carbon Defiant 34 with the #2 cam right after announcement. Wish I would have never bought that bow, the #2 cam was faulty and in cost me dearly to get the 2.1 cam just to make it shoot right.

Never again will I buy a new model Hoyt bow before I hear the actual reviews of the bow. I got caught up in "gottaaa haaaave it" for the last time. Take note, this year Hoyt is offering a new cam system. My advice is steer well clear of it until it is fully vetted (which Hoyt already demonstrates that they don't do before they release a bow).

I am absolutely disgusted with Hoyt over the 2016 CD 34 with the #2 cam. I don't think I am alone.


----------



## Hoythunter01

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> Not a pro in any way shape or form. But a long time Hoyt owner and my bow would always start with a cam first, grip second,axle 3rd. I'm a hunter only and have zero desire to shoot target.
> 
> With that said, i'd say the Z5 cam was Hoyt's best cam ever made. I know there are people who like the second version of the 2.1 DFX cam,not me. Next, the grip of an Alpha Max riser but on a Carbon Spyder riser,,,,,which on it's own, feels kinda close especially with side plates, and make the bow 33 inches long 6 inch brace is fine and 350+ quiet as a whisper and vibe free. Doesn't get any better than that.
> 
> I am think thins years cams are pretty exciting myself by the specs they are showing. I am going to be looking real hard @ a new hunting bow this year.


If it's target or popular hunter....each one has a favorite they wish they could go back to. Not in the "Lime Light" though. I'd like to ask one sometime. "Which bow would you go back to if you could, and shoot it for the whole year?" Wonder what they would choose ?


----------



## Tacoma#12

KamoKid14 said:


> I meant the guy he quoted not sneak1413. I thought it copied the whole thing my bad.


Everybody has the favorites,and dislikes, point being I'm not a fan of pse, so I made it simple for you. Andvyes, I have shot every single bow that has come out in the last 3 years. Did I say ....every..yes every. But you are right about being a Hoyt fanboy. No shame there.


----------



## Tacoma#12

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> I do not think so at all. In fact, it is less expensive I think because of open patents and no more royalties ?
> 
> I would venture to say the solo cam died because of cam efficiency, long azzz stringing . Single cams couldn't produce speeds and comfort as efficient as dual track/binary and Hybrids. Single cams hit the wall on efficiency.
> 
> Between the Hybrid and lets call them binary's, the Hybrids were more readily developed because Bowtech kock blocked many other companies(original Elite) from using Rex's binary permission and develop the technology more. So mainly Hoyt and PSE really sunk R&D into Hybrid and really got some awesome stuff for us.
> 
> Moving to Binary, praise to Dennis Lewis for getting permissions from Rex to use on his Obsession and hiring Strother who was with Bowtech and Elite to use his designs and refine the binary.
> 
> Right now, it does appear the hybrid might be a more efficient cam system than the binary,by a tad. HOWEVER, something tells me, bow manufactorers are intrigued to develop the binary more because they simply haven't had their chance @ it yet.
> 
> Let's not forget PSE came out with the hybrid system on their AR bow line in 2004. The bows rattled your teeth and got about 280 FPS on the 34 axle. today they are @ 360 FPS and developed string or limb stop.
> 
> Obsession has a bonafide 350 rating on their 6 inch brace binary. Something tells me there are bow designers with these PSE and Hoyt team that believe they can develop this system more,,,,or atleast would like to give it a shot.
> 
> So in the future, I think you're going to see hybrids 350-370 FPS, it's done practically already. Now you will see manufactorers dig into the binary as long as it's cost effective and look for that break thru that PSE found with the hybrid. Then when it's all said and done the end result will be what it is.
> 
> What i'm saying is, binary hasn't gotten the opportunity to be developed most universally like Hybrid was. Right now, binary has more upside to development. I still feel the hybrid is a more comfortable system to shoot, but thats just me. Speed is sex and sex sells. So the manufactorers owe it to themselves to atleast TRY to push the envelope in binary.


Bear stayed with them, and I think they have 3 single cam bows this year. Nothing reaching 350 ibo either.


----------



## 0nepin

I'm guessing the 2018 Hoyt bows will be very similar to the 2017 pse bows .lets wait and see .


----------



## Tacoma#12

0nepin said:


> I'm guessing the 2018 Hoyt bows will be very similar to the 2017 pse bows .lets wait and see .


You may be close. Have you seen the 2018 Bears? Riser in thickness favors Matthews.


----------



## Midman03

Pics of these yet? When should we be expecting these?


----------



## 0nepin

2018 Hoyt prototype


----------



## Aleutian

I remember starting with a state of the art best thing since sliced bread double wheeled bow.. It killed. The rest of this is nonsense.


----------



## Hoythunter01

How many bow companies are using those shock rods now ??


----------



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

Tacoma#12 said:


> Bear stayed with them, and I think they have 3 single cam bows this year. Nothing reaching 350 ibo either.


Nothing wrong with a Bear bow, but when talking hybrid or single cam, I don't think you can place them in the upper echelon of speed. So it stands to reason they haven't gotten any 350 FPS bows with regularity. However 350 FPS in a hybrid is and has been old news for many years now. PSE really wrung the speed element out of the hybrid bow greatly i'd say. 

As for Hoyt looking like a PSE ???? lol...comical. Which look al like bow came first ? The Carbon Matrix or the PSE Carbon copy ? How about where did PSE get the idea of the XForce HF cam back in 2007 ? Yep, Mathews, and lost in court over it too.

I love PSE, shot them for the majority of my life. But they are no different then the rest of the companies. They all grab a piece of something form someone if they think they can capitalize on it. PSE does I do believe own the most registered patents,they also been around a long azzzzz time too. 

As I do every year, i'm going to try the top 2 speed/hunting bows of PSE again this year, but I think if I buy, it more than likely will be a Hoyt carbon.


----------



## rok1167

0nepin said:


> 2018 Hoyt prototype


PSE invent that shoot through riser that looks identical to Hoyt's? Or the carbon riser, they invent that? dipchit


----------



## 4IDARCHER

rok1167 said:


> PSE invent that shoot through riser that looks identical to Hoyt's? Or the carbon riser, they invent that? dipchit


Oh boy. 
I am a fan of both companies but please put down the drink and do your research before posting up here..... 
Also the comment from Onepin was in reference to the obvious observation that Hoyt has learned from the success of the evolve cam and bows. That is absolutely why they are offering a letoff higher then ever before with more speed then any flagship ever before. They saw what PSE brought to the table last year while they were recouping from the carbon mess up (the lateness in getting the carbon defiants into the hands of buyers in 2016) and the very slight changes in the aluminum from 2016 to 2017. I am hoping both companies succeed but really you should probably do some in-depth research before calling anyone a dipchit.


----------



## trucker3573

rok1167 said:


> PSE invent that shoot through riser that looks identical to Hoyt's? Or the carbon riser, they invent that? dipchit


Geeze...the pot calling the kettle black? Reported...hopefully you get bounced.


----------



## 0nepin

Do your research not that it matters but .my post was a joke but I do think I see where Hoyt is going with there design.cant wait to see what they have came up with.


rok1167 said:


> PSE invent that shoot through riser that looks identical to Hoyt's? Or the carbon riser, they invent that? dipchit


----------



## 0nepin

These days everybody copies everybody.i expect the new Hoyt to have riser cages and ecs type cams .thats just where the industry is going .hoyt has always been the last to go with the new technology but they build good bows .they were the first with limb shoxs


----------



## Kammeg

You mean a riser cage like this one on a ‘15 Nitrum?


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## lee martin

Get a job.. get Hoyt


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## rok1167

trucker3573 said:


> rok1167 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PSE invent that shoot through riser that looks identical to Hoyt's? Or the carbon riser, they invent that? dipchit
> 
> 
> 
> Geeze...the pot calling the kettle black? Reported...hopefully you get bounced.
Click to expand...

 reported, lol. What are you in grade school?


----------



## 0nepin

I believe that was a elite innovation .


Kammeg said:


> You mean a riser cage like this one on a ‘15 Nitrum?
> View attachment 6264255


----------



## tek

0nepin said:


> 2018 Hoyt prototype


Looks like an Old Hoyt Trykon


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## zekezoe

0nepin said:


> I believe that was a elite innovation .


is that a joke too??? i am confused,, hoyt has been doing that long before elite


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## Tiggie_00

The archery business is hurting pretty bad. Shops closing up left and right. There are too many companies selling good bows now days.


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## Larry brown

Tiggie_00 said:


> The archery business is hurting pretty bad. Shops closing up left and right. There are too many companies selling good bows now days.


Your right and just like everything else they keep going up and up 50-100 a year. 
Personally I wish they would come out with a bow and not “innovate” anything till they have something besides a new riser design or a new cutout etc... people will still buy new ones but it sucks for the ones who “HAVE” to have the newest and best even though a year before they “HAD” to have the newest and best! It’s hard on shops to get rid of old designs and get the new and especially to the ones who carry more than one brand. 

I honestly wish we had a shop that carried some target stuff, but again it’s supply and demand. Most don’t keep the supply cause no one demands it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lee31

0nepin said:


> 2018 Hoyt prototype


lol. I find it funny that PSE knocked Elite for having high let off bows. They even made videos about how much worse they were. Now they have super high let off bows and dual riser cages like Elites. Funny stuff


----------



## Fdale's Finest

Hoythunter01 said:


> Never been one to jump on the "New Bow" bandwagon.
> 
> I sit back and read about problems and how their new bow doesn't live up to the advertised hype. While the next guy starts a fight about how the other guy is wrong.
> 
> Same story, different year.
> 
> I often wonder..... If Hoyt were to decide they weren't going to build new bows in 2019. Instead, let you chose the bow you wanted. Build it on their website and they assemble and build it.
> 
> 2006 Ultratec riser with Podium limb pockets, grip system....etc.
> 
> Chose anything from 2004 to the present day. Combine parts, choose limbs, choose cams......
> 
> Wonder what the Pros would come up with ??


Love this idea! I would have my frankenhoyt built. Seven 37 riser, XT 2000 limbs and spiral cams. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 1975powerking

ttt


----------



## Ingo

lee31 said:


> lol. I find it funny that PSE knocked Elite for having high let off bows. They even made videos about how much worse they were. Now they have super high let off bows and dual riser cages like Elites. Funny stuff


The length of the valley (or dwell zone) allowing grip torque to affect arrow flight more severely was what PSE was demonstrating in that video. 

I'm willing to bet the valley still isn't long like a Synergy with PSEs Evolve style cams, although I haven't shot them myself. 

The net result is that PSE kept their own fanboys and also added some guys that like high-let off bows. So, congrats PSE [emoji122]. 



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## RavinHood

Larry brown said:


> Your right and just like everything else they keep going up and up 50-100 a year.
> Personally I wish they would come out with a bow and not “innovate” anything till they have something besides a new riser design or a new cutout etc... people will still buy new ones but it sucks for the ones who “HAVE” to have the newest and best even though a year before they “HAD” to have the newest and best! It’s hard on shops to get rid of old designs and get the new and especially to the ones who carry more than one brand.
> 
> I honestly wish we had a shop that carried some target stuff, but again it’s supply and demand. Most don’t keep the supply cause no one demands it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 You are right. I don't caarry many target bows but will gladly order a customer one if he or she wants one. Not many target shootings. Mostly hunters who ALL like a smooth draw High let off a lot of valley and no handshock if the bow you came out with doesnt have that then sorry but it won't be in my shop unless the customer ask for one.


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## Larry brown

AXE6Hunter said:


> You are right. I don't caarry many target bows but will gladly order a customer one if he or she wants one. Not many target shootings. Mostly hunters who ALL like a smooth draw High let off a lot of valley and no handshock if the bow you came out with doesnt have that then sorry but it won't be in my shop unless the customer ask for one.


Yeah that’s the problem you have to order, if the manufacturer would send a demo that y’all could show, at least a 50-60lb bow just to get a feel. I understand your concern, no need to carry what you don’t sell but I only buy used now because of that. I can buy used and then if I don’t like sell but there is no way to buy a new one and then turn around and sell and break even and with most target bows 1700.00 my wife would divorce me if I buy one new! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## George Charles

I have to give Hoyt credit, they have some of the Best "Marketing strategies" in the business. 





ex-wolverine said:


> On Facebook


----------



## rookcaca

George Charles said:


> I have to give Hoyt credit, they have some of the Best "Marketing strategies" in the business.


Lol, I know I have bought into Hoyt's marketing strategies before. I think they are the best bow company when it comes to marketing.


----------



## Ingo

George Charles said:


> I have to give Hoyt credit, they have some of the Best "Marketing strategies" in the business.


I give that [emoji93][emoji93][emoji93][emoji93][emoji93]

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## ShootingABN!

Time will tell.


----------



## RavinHood

Larry brown said:


> Yeah that’s the problem you have to order, if the manufacturer would send a demo that y’all could show, at least a 50-60lb bow just to get a feel. I understand your concern, no need to carry what you don’t sell but I only buy used now because of that. I can buy used and then if I don’t like sell but there is no way to buy a new one and then turn around and sell and break even and with most target bows 1700.00 my wife would divorce me if I buy one new!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Thats all we need is a 50-60# bow. Only a handful of archer shoot a full 70# bow. Another think I don't understand why not order a bow at what you are going to shoot it at? I order customers bows that are 60-70# and 85% of the time they want me to back it down to 60-65#. I understand if you are shooting a mathews (not sure of all the companies that don't make a 55-65lbs.) but why not just order that. Instead theyd rather order 70# and have me back it off. Doesn't make sense.


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## Doebuster

George Charles said:


> I have to give Hoyt credit, they have some of the Best "Marketing strategies" in the business.


It's going to take more than talk this year ! Show me the bows !


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## psychobaby111

AXE6Hunter said:


> Thats all we need is a 50-60# bow. Only a handful of archer shoot a full 70# bow. Another think I don't understand why not order a bow at what you are going to shoot it at? I order customers bows that are 60-70# and 85% of the time they want me to back it down to 60-65#. I understand if you are shooting a mathews (not sure of all the companies that don't make a 55-65lbs.) but why not just order that. Instead theyd rather order 70# and have me back it off. Doesn't make sense.


A lot of guys think your a puss if you can't draw 70# so they buy a 60/70. Then realize they can't get 70 back so they have to have you lower the weight.


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## soldierarcher

Well I must be on the other spectrum then because I'm thinking of ordering a 70 to 80lb bow and dial it back to 75 or 76lbs. Besides the additional stopping power I'm after the flattest trajectory I can get. My goal is for bow's to get fast enough to have one pin for 0 to 50 yards.

Say what you want but even John Dudley was talking about missing due to the wrong set of split pins. Today's bow's have along way to go, but they are by far the best equipment that we've had to date.


----------



## RavinHood

soldierarcher said:


> Well I must be on the other spectrum then because I'm thinking of ordering a 70 to 80lb bow and dial it back to 75 or 76lbs. Besides the additional stopping power I'm after the flattest trajectory I can get. My goal is for bow's to get fast enough to have one pin for 0 to 50 yards.
> 
> Say what you want but even John Dudley was talking about missing due to the wrong set of split pins. Today's bow's have along way to go, but they are by far the best equipment that we've had to date.


I with you as well i shoot 80# they look at me and say there is no need for that. A 40 lbs can do what you need. So my question to them is why are you back in hear having me set up a newer bow that’s 60# if a 40# can do it; when you just complained that your 370 grain w/ a 50 lbs didn’t get any penetration? Then their comment would be well I’ve killed more deer then you. While they have killed more then myself my recovery rate is better. Usually they stop talking at that point. 

Hey don’t get me wrong a 40# bow with a sharp cut on contact head will kill a deer, but my confidence is way lower I don’t feel confident with any shot OTHER then broadside. I get and have a sense of responsibility. I don’t get 5-10days of a month to go hunting I have one day a week. I practice at longer distance and I’m confident with my setup. 

Here’s the bottom line I try to get across: “Don’t bash me for my setup. I’m not bashing yours.” 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IDABOW

If you have a longer draw 60 lbs is fine. My draw is 27”. 340(ish) ata is my minimum. I want a mid 400 grn arrow at 280 or above in speed. There is no substitute for cubic inches.


----------



## Asells

This looks to be a new design with kuiu verde 2.0? Hard to tell.


----------



## fountain

whatever they come up with will be revolutionary and innovative....i guarantee that!


----------



## markman

I have a feeling Hoyt is going to come up with something special this year. They have always been one of, if not the top bows companies in the world and their engineering dept is hands down one of the best when it comes to bows. They fell a little behind the past coupe years due to the cam/half which is still a great cam system but lagging when it comes to new/improved innovation. If any company can come with something new and improved I think it's Hoyt. PSE really shined last year and this year with the EVOLVE cam system and I think Hoyt picked up on this new movement of easy drawing/ huge let off cam systems. I love it and hope to see more companies do it. 2018 should be a great year for Bows!!!


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## bowtech3dhunter

Asells said:


> This looks to be a new design with kuiu verde 2.0? Hard to tell.


Hard to tell, that dude’s been dipping his Hoyt carbon bows for the last few years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trial153

Sad to say they haven't revolutionized the bull**** grip and grin camera work . ..who do they think they are fooling with that crap.


----------



## Asells

bowtech3dhunter said:


> Hard to tell, that dude’s been dipping his Hoyt carbon bows for the last few years.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Didnt know that, but I saw somewhere that hoyt is offering kuiu and sitka patterns this year. Looks like a different riser to me, but who knows.


----------



## Ermine

Wonder if the turbo will be a 35" ata bow?


----------



## zacha79

Asells said:


> Didnt know that, but I saw somewhere that hoyt is offering kuiu and sitka patterns this year. Looks like a different riser to me, but who knows.


that's definitely a current carbon defiant. same limb pockets, riser, and limb dampeners. that guy works for kuiu so of course he dips his bows and throws on kuiu's bow sling for the pictures


----------



## boonerbrad

Didn't Hoyt announce all their hunting bows will be 6" brace height for 18? Not sure why guys bash Hoyt as there is not another bow company that has been as bullet proof as Hoyt has for many years. They started the carbon risers and their bows hit their advertised speeds or better. Even for 17 Hoyt bows will perform with any other bow yet guys rip them for nothing "new and revolutionary". Folks the wall was hit as far as performance goes several years ago. Changing specs and a design here and there has been the m.o. for every company for several years. New camo patterns,riser cage,roller cable rods ,split limbs and grips really keep some guys happy cause not much else has changed. And 2018 won't be a bit different. There were a few 350 fps bows in 2007. What? We are looking for 355 now? Lol Now that is revolutionary. Ten years and nothing much has changed except Bowtech may finally have their limb issues resolved. And Mathews basically admitted single cams aint all that and a bag of chips. Hoyt will make some changes but the end results won't change much at all.


----------



## AZSpaniol

Boonerbrad said:


> Didn't Hoyt announce all their hunting bows will be 6" brace height for 18? Not sure why guys bash Hoyt as there is not another bow company that has been as bullet proof as Hoyt has for many years. They started the carbon risers and their bows hit their advertised speeds or better. Even for 17 Hoyt bows will perform with any other bow yet guys rip them for nothing "new and revolutionary". Folks the wall was hit as far as performance goes several years ago. Changing specs and a design here and there has been the m.o. for every company for several years. New camo patterns,riser cage,roller cable rods ,split limbs and grips really keep some guys happy cause not much else has changed. And 2018 won't be a bit different. There were a few 350 fps bows in 2007. What? We are looking for 355 now? Lol Now that is revolutionary. Ten years and nothing much has changed except Bowtech may finally have their limb issues resolved. And Mathews basically admitted single cams aint all that and a bag of chips. Hoyt will make some changes but the end results won't change much at all.


I believe PSE made the first carbon bow some time ago. As for "bulletproof" I don't know. Hoyt had issues getting their carbon bows to customers just a couple years ago and didn't they have issues with the original Defiant cams?
Regardless, Hoyt does make nice bows and I'm excited to see what they have to offer this year. 


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## legion_archery

Boonerbrad said:


> Didn't Hoyt announce all their hunting bows will be 6" brace height for 18? Not sure why guys bash Hoyt as there is not another bow company that has been as bullet proof as Hoyt has for many years. They started the carbon risers and their bows hit their advertised speeds or better. Even for 17 Hoyt bows will perform with any other bow yet guys rip them for nothing "new and revolutionary". Folks the wall was hit as far as performance goes several years ago. Changing specs and a design here and there has been the m.o. for every company for several years. New camo patterns,riser cage,roller cable rods ,split limbs and grips really keep some guys happy cause not much else has changed. And 2018 won't be a bit different. There were a few 350 fps bows in 2007. What? We are looking for 355 now? Lol Now that is revolutionary. Ten years and nothing much has changed except Bowtech may finally have their limb issues resolved. And Mathews basically admitted single cams aint all that and a bag of chips. Hoyt will make some changes but the end results won't change much at all.


High Country came out with a carbon riser about/almost 10 years before Hoyt did.... Hoyt copied and probably/surely enfringed on the Bowtech FLX guard patent rights (so did Prime).... Hoyt copied the Elite riser cage.... you have to have the limb adapters to press the newer Hoyt.... I have never personally seen a Hoyt that hit its ibo speed.....

But I'm still interested to see what all they will try to say is new and better (which it won't be)


----------



## Deadeye1205

soldierarcher said:


> Well I must be on the other spectrum then because I'm thinking of ordering a 70 to 80lb bow and dial it back to 75 or 76lbs. Besides the additional stopping power I'm after the flattest trajectory I can get. My goal is for bow's to get fast enough to have one pin for 0 to 50 yards.
> 
> Say what you want but even John Dudley was talking about missing due to the wrong set of split pins. Today's bow's have along way to go, but they are by far the best equipment that we've had to date.


A 290 pound Excalibur recurve crossbow wouldn’t be able to achieve truly accurate results using 1 pin to 50 yards. An arrow is too heavy and too slow to have that flat of a trajectory. I understand you want as little margin of error as possible, but one pin from 0-50 is impossible. 

I would never turn anyone away from shooting 80 as that’s pretty much all I’ve shot in recent years, I love it, but the advantage lies in pushing an arrow 50 grains heavier than average at the same speed a 70 pound bow would shoot it.

If I’m seeing a 450+ grain arrow in the low 300s, I’m a happy man. That extra weight at that speed will help it stay flat, it will help it stay true, and it will most certainly help it go through whatever it is that its flying towards!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RavinHood

They maybe hitting their advertised speeds but I didn’t notice and increase of efficiency 


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----------



## wdmarriott

All of these bow companies know how to pump up the Hype for these new bows.


----------



## Olink

AZSpaniol said:


> I believe PSE made the first carbon bow some time ago. As for "bulletproof" I don't know. Hoyt had issues getting their carbon bows to customers just a couple years ago and didn't they have issues with the original Defiant cams?
> Regardless, Hoyt does make nice bows and I'm excited to see what they have to offer this year.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I believe Diamond (before they were bought by Bowtech) was the first to market a bow with a carbon riser. Diamond wound up selling their carbon riser tech to High Country.


----------



## huntertroy

Has anyone seen what the real tree edge camo looks like?


----------



## zekezoe

legion_archery said:


> High Country came out with a carbon riser about/almost 10 years before Hoyt did.... Hoyt copied and probably/surely enfringed on the Bowtech FLX guard patent rights (so did Prime).... Hoyt copied the Elite riser cage.... you have to have the limb adapters to press the newer Hoyt.... I have never personally seen a Hoyt that hit its ibo speed.....
> 
> But I'm still interested to see what all they will try to say is new and better (which it won't be)


wrong, hoyt was making riser cages long before elite.


----------



## Q2DEATH

Olink said:


> I believe Diamond (before they were bought by Bowtech) was the first to market a bow with a carbon riser. Diamond wound up selling their carbon riser tech to High Country.



High country was way before that and as previously stated PSE even earlier.


----------



## Olink

Q2DEATH said:


> High country was way before that and as previously stated PSE even earlier.


In what year did PSE start selling carbon riser bows? And as I stated before, Diamond made carbon riser bows for a few years and then sold their carbon riser tech to High Country. I don't remember High Country making carbon bows before they bought Diamond's tech.


----------



## PSE CRAZY

Olink said:


> In what year did PSE start selling carbon riser bows? And as I stated before, Diamond made carbon riser bows for a few years and then sold their carbon riser tech to High Country. I don't remember High Country making carbon bows before they bought Diamond's tech.


In the 90's....


----------



## mikesmith66

Don't know when PSE built a carbon bow, but High Country build their first one in 1996 from what I could find


----------



## PSE CRAZY

PSE Carbon-Lite made in 1995


----------



## Whitetail88Arch

Is there a way to get 80lb limbs for a turbo I'd really love that 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## George Charles

Also notice split limbs. Is that the 1st?


mikesmith66 said:


> Don't know when PSE built a carbon bow, but High Country build their first one in 1996 from what I could find
> View attachment 6266443


----------



## Thansen

Whitetail88Arch said:


> Is there a way to get 80lb limbs for a turbo I'd really love that
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


special order they will do it


----------



## Thansen

Thansen said:


> special order they will do it


if not call and order they limbs with the right deflection and put it together yourself


----------



## Olink

I know Diamond started in 1996, but I don't remember if they started out with carbon bows. But I'm sure they were putting out carbons sometime in the 90's. I didn't remember PSE and HC doing carbon bows at that time though!


----------



## Asells

huntertroy said:


> Has anyone seen what the real tree edge camo looks like?


Looks like an updated version of realtree xtra


----------



## Tiggie_00




----------



## handikap bowhunter

I wont buy a new bow just like i wont buy a new truck. Depreciation on them. Ill get a great used one im a couple years and put some nww strings on it and roll on


----------



## timmymac24

Can they build a bow with cams that can be pressed in my EZ Green without spending another wad of cash on the Hoyt parts?


----------



## Predator

timmymac24 said:


> Can they build a bow with cams that can be pressed in my EZ Green without spending another wad of cash on the Hoyt parts?


That is certainly on the wish list for almost everyone I would think. Having to buy overpriced aftermarket parts just to press a bow is ridiculous.

That said, looking forward to this release more than any other given the pre-release hype on this one. Should be interesting.


----------



## Larry brown

timmymac24 said:


> Can they build a bow with cams that can be pressed in my EZ Green without spending another wad of cash on the Hoyt parts?


I figure they would stick with the beyond parallel limbs because some would be pissed if they bought them adapters and now they are just for 2016/2017 bows! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Luv2shoot3D

Larry brown said:


> I figure they would stick with the beyond parallel limbs because some would be pissed if they bought them adapters and now they are just for 2016/2017 bows!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is what I have been thinking as well


----------



## g_whitcomb

handikap bowhunter said:


> I wont buy a new bow just like i wont buy a new truck. Depreciation on them. Ill get a great used one im a couple years and put some nww strings on it and roll on





timmymac24 said:


> Can they build a bow with cams that can be pressed in my EZ Green without spending another wad of cash on the Hoyt parts?


I’m waiting for the new bows to drop so I can scoop up a pro Defiant 34 and use my press fingers I’ve been sitting on for a year. (Also scooped up at a bargain price) So if anyone has a 60lb Pro Defiant 34 50-60lb #2 cam I’ll take it off your hands. Buckskin would be a bonus


----------



## CarbonDefiant

huntertroy said:


> Has anyone seen what the real tree edge camo looks like?


----------



## deer310sg

Will that pattern is as clear, detail on riser, limbs? Doubtful!


----------



## markman

Can't wait for the Hoyt release, may be going back to Hoyt this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## THE ELKMAN

You guys are gonna love em!


----------



## ArcheryRoad

will they be in the shops next week?????


----------



## nestly

ArcheryRoad said:


> will they be in the shops next week?????


Probably.... FedEx in Salt Lake, Utah likely already saw a huge spike in large brown boxes.


----------



## Dunndm1

When do they get releases


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## Outsider

Dunndm1 said:


> When do they get releases
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


10/24


----------



## warrenc1

ArcheryRoad said:


> will they be in the shops next week?????


Spoke with my local dealer yesterday, he said they will have them on Tuesday when they release.


----------



## onedawg69

Go to Hoyt's FaceBook page and you can see a couple of the bows in the pics of Hoyt guys taking elk and deer already. The cams are different but the risers look similar. Also the limb pockets look different. They might be prototypes. Look good though! "CarbonDoneRight" Looks to be the name!!!


----------



## Deadeye1205

onedawg69 said:


> Go to Hoyt's FaceBook page and you can see a couple of the bows in the pics of Hoyt guys taking elk and deer already. The cams are different but the risers look similar. Also the limb pockets look different. They might be prototypes. Look good though! "CarbonDoneRight" Looks to be the name!!!


Carbon done right has been their slogan for the carbon bows for the last year or two, and the bow in the pic is a CD34


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## onedawg69

There are a couple of different pics that I saw and the one is definitely not a CD34. I had one and it looks similar but where the limb pockets attach are different. Also the cams are diffenent than mine


----------



## zacha79

onedawg69 said:


> There are a couple of different pics that I saw and the one is definitely not a CD34. I had one and it looks similar but where the limb pockets attach are different. Also the cams are diffenent than mine


Hoyt isn't gonna post a picture on their own page of the new bow. they wouldn't slip up like that.


----------



## 4IDARCHER

onedawg69 said:


> Go to Hoyt's FaceBook page and you can see a couple of the bows in the pics of Hoyt guys taking elk and deer already. The cams are different but the risers look similar. Also the limb pockets look different. They might be prototypes. Look good though! "CarbonDoneRight" Looks to be the name!!!


Can you please specify which pictures? I have gone thru all I can find and they are all known models of Hoyt bows.


----------



## Tiggie_00

100% Definitely a leak 2018 carbon. Pics from Hoyts Facebook Page

View attachment 6276907


----------



## zacha79

those are some great pictures of some 2017 carbon defiants


----------



## NYS Archer

zacha79 said:


> those are some great pictures of some 2017 carbon defiants


Actually they're pretty crappy pictures of defiants. Out of focus and very cluttered background....pooor camera work, I don't approve.


----------



## erichall84

I'm excited to see what Hoyt has for this year as well. Hopefully they make a 35" aluminum riser bow too though. 

Sent from my SM-J327T1 using Tapatalk


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## Mathews32155

0nepin said:


> I'm guessing the 2018 Hoyt bows will be very similar to the 2017 pse bows .lets wait and see .


They’re chasing Mathews cam system with 85% letoff. Mathews killed Hoyt in sales last year, specially with Hoyt’s cam problems and slow ship times.


----------



## Mathews32155

4IDARCHER said:


> Can you please specify which pictures? I have gone thru all I can find and they are all known models of Hoyt bows.


----------



## 4IDARCHER

Isn’t that a CD34?


----------



## blance7

They do have one picture with the limb pockets covered up but...


----------



## duckdawg1

4IDARCHER said:


> Isn’t that a CD34?


Here's a CD. 







And here's the bow in the pic


----------



## fountain

Obviously no one knows anything about the new ones and this entire thread is speculation. Let's just close this one down and all wait patient until the 24, then we resume discussion


----------



## zacha79

duckdawg1 said:


> Here's a CD.
> View attachment 6277059
> 
> And here's the bow in the pic
> View attachment 6277061


first picture is a defiant. 2nd is a defiant 34. different style head attachments to make the different ATA's. hoyt posted a picture of brady's kill with a bow that had the limb pockets covered. i still would be surprised if that is the new bow considering you can see the limbs, cams, and riser


----------



## Ybuck

fountain said:


> Obviously no one knows anything about the new ones and this entire thread is speculation. Let's just close this one down and all wait patient until the 24, then we resume discussion


thats no fun:teeth:


----------



## fountain

We can all have fun again Tuesday. That's when all the whining and complaing can start.


----------



## handikap bowhunter

No wonder all my dealers around me are slacking up on stocking up. Thats flat ridiculous prices.


----------



## whack n stack

handikap bowhunter said:


> No wonder all my dealers around me are slacking up on stocking up. Thats flat ridiculous prices.


Way too high, I agree 100%.


----------



## RavinHood

whack n stack said:


> Way too high, I agree 100%.


In order to keep Gold Pricin you had to buy at least $20k worth of bows and I was like nope


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## whack n stack

AXE6Hunter said:


> In order to keep Gold Pricin you had to buy at least $20k worth of bows and I was like nope
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly. My local shop is in the same boat at 20k initial investment at gold status. The rep was "kind" and offered some "creative solutions" in order to make that happen. 

All that aside, the economy/market will not support the prices in my area. It didn't last year and will certainly will not in 2018.


----------



## rangstng

Just saw this on the Facebook page, wonder what it is


----------



## Tiggie_00

The Carbon Defiant WRX


----------



## NCBuckNBass

who gives 2 cents................


----------



## 0nepin

Maybe the wrx is faster than the matrix or element Hoyt seems to name a lot of bows after little import cars


rangstng said:


> Just saw this on the Facebook page, wonder what it is
> 
> View attachment 6277673


----------



## JMart294

Exited to see what they do.


----------



## Tiggie_00

Yeah those pics are a Carbon Defiant 34... But expect the Carbon Defiant with similar changes. 3 days left until a slight variation shiny new toy.


----------



## MBG Hunter

So no aluminum 35? bow?


----------



## Had a Hoyt

Hope the X doesn't stand for experimental. Hoyt needs to produce a tested reliable bow instead of an experimental one.

Though, it would have fit for the 2016 CD 34. They certainly had not tested that bow enough and as a result the bow with the #2 cam wouldn't tune in a conventional way. In fact Hoyt realized that and changed it in 2017. 

I will let other experiment with the new bows before I buy one. Only if they are PROVEN to be spot on will I purchase one. I don't care for another experimental bow that cost me over $200 to make it right.


----------



## 78Staff

AXE6Hunter said:


> In order to keep Gold Pricin you had to buy at least $20k worth of bows and I was like nope
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





whack n stack said:


> Exactly. My local shop is in the same boat at 20k initial investment at gold status. The rep was "kind" and offered some "creative solutions" in order to make that happen.
> 
> All that aside, the economy/market will not support the prices in my area. It didn't last year and will certainly will not in 2018.



Yep was talking shop today at the local shop, he had same issue was forced into buying big package up front, or would lose better pricing and also have to wait to fulfill any new orders, as I guess all the gold dealers will get their orders first... He really wasn't thrilled about it but they are a big Hoyt shop so he put in the order.


----------



## whack n stack

78Staff said:


> Yep was talking shop today at the local shop, he had same issue was forced into buying big package up front, or would lose better pricing and also have to wait to fulfill any new orders, as I guess all the gold dealers will get their orders first... He really wasn't thrilled about it but they are a big Hoyt shop so he put in the order.


And it's killing the smaller "out state" shops. It's creating a market for Hoyt, forcibly. It's most all the bow companies in on this push. 

It is amazing to see all this. High end bow sales are down, nationally, and these companies are pressing harder for sales, that do not exist. Something has to give.


----------



## nestly

Lots of grumbling about price and marketing, but I recall someone who should know say "they sell every bow they make". I expect that's true for all the major companies.... reality is they probably all struggle to keep up with demand.


----------



## ontarget7

Reality is sales have been down 


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## RavinHood

We just ordered a preview package. Basically everything except the turbo model. 


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## Mathews32155

Mathews is laughing so hard right now.


----------



## Mathews32155

rangstng said:


> Just saw this on the Facebook page, wonder what it is
> 
> View attachment 6277673


Red Works, I shot it already. Same old same old from Hoyt. A $1600 335ibo Carbon 34. Nice stick but $1600, I just don’t see it. High letoff is nice and I like the interchange grip, but $1600 + tax. I just don’t see it.


----------



## Tiggie_00

$1600 ?? Lol


----------



## Bdhuey3202

yes retail will be around 1600. You may find it slightly cheaper depending how hard you search but I placed my order two weeks ago. The price is steep and as others have said shops were more or less forced to make a big purchase of 20-25bows for initial order.


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

Mathews32155 said:


> Red Works, I shot it already. Same old same old from Hoyt. A $1600 335ibo Carbon 34. Nice stick but $1600, I just don’t see it. High letoff is nice and I like the interchange grip, but $1600 + tax. I just don’t see it.


you say you've shot it but its not a 34 model but a 35 inch model.....Im calling BS on a person you just joined....


----------



## rangstng

What I really want is the hunting bows to have the same grip my Prevail and Hyperedge have


----------



## Whaack

rangstng said:


> Just saw this on the Facebook page, wonder what it is
> 
> View attachment 6277673


Is that a pallet of bows going back to Hoyt to have the faulty cams replaced? 

Haha, just teasing. Love me some Hoyt, had a number of them over the years. Hope this year is without drama for them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 0nepin

I wonder if next year if there will be a WRX STI model?


rangstng said:


> Just saw this on the Facebook page, wonder what it is
> 
> View attachment 6277673


----------



## black feather

0nepin said:


> I wonder if next year if there will be a WRX STI model?


Haha. That's the turbo model. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mathias

ontarget7 said:


> Reality is sales have been down
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Local shop has been saying this for a few years now...


----------



## Had a Hoyt

Whaack said:


> Is that a pallet of bows going back to Hoyt to have the faulty cams replaced?
> 
> Haha, just teasing. Love me some Hoyt, had a number of them over the years. Hope this year is without drama for them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is funny! Very funny. I laughed out loud. The only thing that could have made it funnier is saying that the cam was being replaced at the customers expense.

I have no faith that the new cam will be spot on. Hoyt simply doesn't have a track record to back that faith.


----------



## HoytFlinger

Hoyt has to be the most boring of bow companies. I used to love them, but have moved on and happy.


----------



## mikesmith66

Had a Hoyt said:


> That is funny! Very funny. I laughed out loud. The only thing that could have made it funnier is saying that the cam was being replaced at the customers expense.
> 
> I have no faith that the new cam will be spot on. Hoyt simply doesn't have a track record to back that faith.


What other cams have they had issues with ?


----------



## nestly

mikesmith66 said:


> What other cams have they had issues with ?


Exactly!. They redesigned the #2 DFX and suddenly Hoyt cant be trusted? I have news for all those that are under the impression the #2 DFX was "defective".....it wasnt, that cam won at the national level and set state records in target archery.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


----------



## Had a Hoyt

nestly said:


> Exactly!. They redesigned the #2 DFX and suddenly Hoyt cant be trusted? I have news for all those that are under the impression the #2 DFX was "defective".....it wasnt, that cam won at the national level and set state records in target archery.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Then why in the world would Hoyt change it to the 2.1cam? Such a stellar performer would logically seem to go unchanged.


----------



## Larry brown

And it wasn’t all #2 cams. The defiant I had tuned perfectly level, top cam and bottom cam hitting even and bullet hole. I have not met anyone who has had a problem. I have seen some on here who have and don’t doubt them but I have not personally seen them. Obviously there was some sorta problem with them as Hoyt changed the 2 to a 2.1 and no other cams. I think they should have replaced the ones that had problems and been done but that’s my opinion. Either you deal with it or you swap the cams yourself and move on. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nestly

Had a Hoyt said:


> Then why in the world would Hoyt change it to the 2.1cam? Such a stellar performer would logically seem to go unchanged.


Because for the existence of modern archery it has been taught nock point should be level to 1/4 high and some people could not accept that a bullet hole with a nock point 1/8" below level is no different than a bullet hole with a nock point 1/8 above level. Bows tuned and shot fine for those actually tuned their bows based on arrow flight instead of folklore. For many years Hoyt manual says to start with a level nock point and adjust up or down from there....some cannot accept that down is an option. The 2.1 was just to quiet those who squawked about a bow that tunes 1/8" nock low but are as happy as fleas on a dog if it tunes 1/8" tail high.? It was mostly those with low grips that had issues....those with mid to high grips generally tuned fine with level nock points


----------



## ShootnBlind

Had a Hoyt said:


> Then why in the world would Hoyt change it to the 2.1cam? Such a stellar performer would logically seem to go unchanged.


maybe like the halon x where they deepened the valley because the customers cant shoot worth a **** and blame the bow


----------



## bighunterguy

If anyone is looking for a used Hoyt check the classifieds now! Good Lord!! lol I never saw so many Hoyt's for sale! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 4IDARCHER

Wait till tuesday and they will be almost giving them away so that they can be at the bowshop when it opens. Can’t say I am immune to that either.


----------



## 'Ike'

4IDARCHER said:


> Wait till tuesday and they will be almost giving them away so that they can be at the bowshop when it opens. Can’t say I am immune to that either.


Buyers market! :biggrin1:


----------



## olehemlock

A little bow hype is just like a pile of sugar beets 20yds from the bow stand...lol


----------



## richstang75

Crazy pricing!!!


----------



## 0nepin

Yes it is .lol I just sold a bow at half the price of the new bow I ordered and they have the same specs .hahahaha I just read that back to myself!!! Man I'm a dumb azzz


olehemlock said:


> A little bow hype is just like a pile of sugar beets 20yds from the bow stand...lol


----------



## kscumminsdriver

nestly said:


> Because for the existence of modern archery it has been taught nock point should be level to 1/4 high and some people could not accept that a bullet hole with a nock point 1/8" below level is no different than a bullet hole with a nock point 1/8 above level. Bows tuned and shot fine for those actually tuned their bows based on arrow flight instead of folklore. For many years Hoyt manual says to start with a level nock point and adjust up or down from there....some cannot accept that down is an option. The 2.1 was just to quiet those who squawked about a bow that tunes 1/8" nock low but are as happy as fleas on a dog if it tunes 1/8" tail high.?


Spot on...



Larry brown said:


> And it wasn’t all #2 cams. The defiant I had tuned perfectly level, top cam and bottom cam hitting even and bullet hole. I have not met anyone who has had a problem. I have seen some on here who have and don’t doubt them but I have not personally seen them. Obviously there was some sorta problem with them as Hoyt changed the 2 to a 2.1 and no other cams. I think they should have replaced the ones that had problems and been done but that’s my opinion. Either you deal with it or you swap the cams yourself and move on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My local shop definitely had several with #2 cams that were problem children... 

Put me in the category of definitely excited to see what Hoyt is bringing to the table. I was in the market for a new bow with the CD series came out and was going to get a CD34... tune issues aside (I would be in a #2 cam) what was more off putting was that they weren't even able to deliver the CD bows to shops... my local shop didn't get one for many, many months though they had been ordered. If Hoyt can actually get carbon bows to shops I have no reservations about the cam system.... it would appear that they had a learning curve on rotating modules and my expectation would be they have moved past that.


----------



## Tiggie_00

Yep there is no denying Hoyt has problems from time to time. The 2016 #2 cam was an issue but it was straightened out once 2016 Carbon Defiant orders were met in mid summer 2017. Hoyts quality control I believe turned sour once they went global outsourcing manufacturing the Carbon bows in 2010. Let's face it a premium $1600 Carbon bow 50% made in China.

I'm a Hoyt fan and always shoot new Hoyts each year but... I am sick of the special press limbs and most likely will switch to Mathews if Hoyt doesn't go back to making their bows easier to work on. I don't care about past parallel limbs.


----------



## huntertroy

So how are they introducing the new bows ? Is the website gping ro ve updated at midnight or are they doing a press conference tomorrow?


----------



## Ermine

Couple of the #2 cam bows I have and other friends that we tuned all tuned easy and shot great. Guess the difference was the timing was cams hitting at the same time verse in the past of the top cam hitting 1st. People seemed to be thrown off by that.


----------



## mikesmith66

Ermine said:


> Couple of the #2 cam bows I have and other friends that we tuned all tuned easy and shot great. Guess the difference was the timing was cams hitting at the same time verse in the past of the top cam hitting 1st. People seemed to be thrown off by that.


That's the point I was going for in my question about what other cams Hoyt has had issues with..........that didn't get answered haha. 

A couple points:

1. Not everybody had issues. Thinking back, (and I may be wrong, and I will stand corrected if so) some of the tuning issues depended on what DL slot you were in on the #2 cam. 

2. Not everybody bare shaft tunes. As much as some on here don't like it, the majority of hunting bows are sold to guys that get a quick "shop tune", hunt with their bows for 4-8 weeks, then put them away till next year. They have no idea what bare shaft tuning is, and don't care. So for Hoyt to make a change to a cam after a small percentage of guys cried foul, and a bigger percentage has no clue what is going in the first place, doesn't throw up a red flag for me personally to NOT look at the new models. 


I'm pretty sure that Hoyt does not have a bad "track record" with cam design. I can think way back to the first Cam 1/2 design in 2003, and nothing comes to mind on a cam that was built for the adult target/hunting bow lineups. I've owned just about all their target bows and their hunting models, and other than a new learning curve, didn't have any issues to make me not want another one in the future. 

With that being said, I shoot an Evolve 35 and love it :darkbeer: If Hoyt churns out a new cam design similar to what mathews and pse did, good for them. I would say they will add their own revisions to it, and they will hit it out of the park.


----------



## olehemlock

I've done that for so many years myself. Last year was the first year without the latest greatest, and I'm still alive! lol I would really like a new carbon bow but will have to sit on the fence and see how the new bows play out. Easy to do seeing I'm left hand shooter. Hoyt used to build to specs, hope they return to that.


0nepin said:


> Yes it is .lol I just sold a bow at half the price of the new bow I ordered and they have the same specs .hahahaha I just read that back to myself!!! Man I'm a dumb azzz


----------



## JGV

Had a Hoyt said:


> Then why in the world would Hoyt change it to the 2.1cam? Such a stellar performer would logically seem to go unchanged.


As a dealer for 20 years I asked Hoyt that question. they had a few problems with a few hyper edge's with #2 cams. anyone with a tuning issue on a hyper edge with a #2 cam got switched to 2.1 at that point they put 2.1 on all 2017 bows because they switched tooling & wanted to have just one cam going forward. 
the DFX cam is very finicky any adjustment you make on the bows draw weight & draw length requires some cam timing adjustment. specially if you use the limb stop. with out a good draw board you cant properly tune these bows.


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

nestly said:


> Because for the existence of modern archery it has been taught nock point should be level to 1/4 high and some people could not accept that a bullet hole with a nock point 1/8" below level is no different than a bullet hole with a nock point 1/8 above level. Bows tuned and shot fine for those actually tuned their bows based on arrow flight instead of folklore. For many years Hoyt manual says to start with a level nock point and adjust up or down from there....some cannot accept that down is an option. The 2.1 was just to quiet those who squawked about a bow that tunes 1/8" nock low but are as happy as fleas on a dog if it tunes 1/8" tail high.? It was mostly those with low grips that had issues....those with mid to high grips generally tuned fine with level nock points


Anyone with basic knowledge understands why one would NOT want a Bow to tune below 90 degrees. You could have clearance issues. I have owned 2 cd34’s with the #2 cam. Both have paper tuned with bullet holes. You bareshaft if screw on a fixed blade head of your choice and it would impact low at 20 yards from the field point. Hoyt obviously seen the problem and corrected it. Kudos to them for making it right. But for the ones that bought them like myself what were we supposed to do?? Pretend like it didn’t exist? I love Hoyt and can’t wait til I can pick mine new one up this week at the shop but they had a problem with that cam. I’ve own a lot of bows and tune a lot of bow for lots of other folks. Never had I had to tune one nock low with the cams timed dead even. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## THE ELKMAN

That's not the new bow


----------



## THE ELKMAN

Ncturkeycaller said:


> you say you've shot it but its not a 34 model but a 35 inch model.....Im calling BS on a person you just joined....


Exactly^^^


----------



## THE ELKMAN

Ncturkeycaller said:


> Anyone with basic knowledge understands why one would NOT want a Bow to tune below 90 degrees. You could have clearance issues. I have owned 2 cd34’s with the #2 cam. Both have paper tuned with bullet holes. You bareshaft if screw on a fixed blade head of your choice and it would impact low at 20 yards from the field point. Hoyt obviously seen the problem and corrected it. Kudos to them for making it right. But for the ones that bought them like myself what were we supposed to do?? Pretend like it didn’t exist? I love Hoyt and can’t wait til I can pick mine new one up this week at the shop but they had a problem with that cam. I’ve own a lot of bows and tune a lot of bow for lots of other folks. Never had I had to tune one nock low with the cams timed dead even.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is correct^^


----------



## nestly

Ncturkeycaller;110628255 9 said:


> Anyone with basic knowledge understands why one would NOT want a Bow to tune below 90 degrees. You could have clearance issues. I have owned 2 cd34’s with the #2 cam. Both have paper tuned with bullet holes. You bareshaft if screw on a fixed blade head of your choice and it would impact low at 20 yards from the field point. Hoyt obviously seen the problem and corrected it. Kudos to them for making it right. But for the ones that bought them like myself what were we supposed to do?? Pretend like it didn’t exist? I love Hoyt and can’t wait til I can pick mine new one up this week at the shop but they had a problem with that cam. I’ve own a lot of bows and tune a lot of bow for lots of other folks. Never had I had to tune one nock low with the cams timed dead even.


Actually, basic knowledge (not folklore) tells us that it doesn't matter if the nocking point is high, low, or level, as long as the nock is following the point. A low TEAR could indicate clearance problems, but a bullethole is a bullethole and means the nock is NOT below the arrow point as the arrow exits the bow, therefore it's no more prone to clearance issues than an arrow that shoots a bullethole with a nocking point that's level or above level.

The following animation demonstrates the different scenarios. All will shoot bulletholes because the nock is following the point, and none is more likely than the other to have rest contact. 
Sometimes you need nocking point ABOVE level to get a bullethole, and sometimes you need a nocking point BELOW level to get a bullethole. One is not "better" than the other.


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

nestly said:


> Actually, basic knowledge (not folklore) tells us that it doesn't matter if the nocking point is high, low, or level, as long as the nock is following the point. A low TEAR could indicate clearance problems, but a bullethole is a bullethole and means the nock is NOT below the arrow point as the arrow exits the bow, therefore it's no more prone to clearance issues than an arrow that shoots a bullethole with a nocking point that's level or above level.
> 
> The following animation illustrates different configurations... all will shoot bulletholes because the nock is following the point, and none is more likely than the other to have rest contact.


My bows both shot a bullet hole which don’t mean crap to me and still bareshafts nock High and bareshaft low. If you want to tune your bow nock low go ahead. I’m not. Hoyt redesigned a cam to address this problem half way through the year. If it wasn’t a big deal they would have just headed with your theory that it’s ok to have a bow tune nock low. They may say that but why did they redo a cam?? I’m not beating a dead horse. I’m pumped about the new bows!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShootingABN!

So cam design and vertical nock travel is the issue???????


----------



## nestly

ShootingABN! said:


> So cam design and vertical nock travel is the issue???????


It only matters that the nock travel in a straight line... it does not matter whether the travel is "level" or not, as shown in the animation.


----------



## tyohshooter

I'm confused. Some people are saying that Hoyt was wrong because they refused to replace the #2 cams for people who claimed they had a problem. Others are saying that Hoyt showed that they had a problem by making the 2.1 cam. So whether they made a new cam or not they were wrong??? Is it possible that everyone is right and I just don't understand? lol. Hoyt engineers their cams to have some nock travel. Guys that know a lot more than I do like Greg Poole, John Dudley, and Steve Anderson have all said this on their podcasts. The theory is that putting some direction into the arrow makes it more consistent and repeatable. The results around the world at archery competitions proves that they must not be wrong. My own opinion is that the #2 cam had a little bit more travel than most of their bows and many people didn't like how they had to be set up to tune. I don't think it was a "problem" but maybe is was a little difficult to work with or just "different" from what they were used to. Bow companies have to manufacture whatever will make the most people happy so Hoyt came up with the 2.1 cam so that it would tune in a more conventional manner. Just my 2 cents in a much too long paragraph


----------



## Adamsdjr

A-Bros Archery said:


> I'm confused. Some people are saying that Hoyt was wrong because they refused to replace the #2 cams for people who claimed they had a problem. Others are saying that Hoyt showed that they had a problem by making the 2.1 cam. So whether they made a new cam or not they were wrong??? Is it possible that everyone is right and I just don't understand? lol. Hoyt engineers their cams to have some nock travel. Guys that know a lot more than I do like Greg Poole, John Dudley, and Steve Anderson have all said this on their podcasts. The theory is that putting some direction into the arrow makes it more consistent and repeatable. The results around the world at archery competitions proves that they must not be wrong. My own opinion is that the #2 cam had a little bit more travel than most of their bows and many people didn't like how they had to be set up to tune. I don't think it was a "problem" but maybe is was a little difficult to work with or just "different" from what they were used to. Bow companies have to manufacture whatever will make the most people happy so Hoyt came up with the 2.1 cam so that it would tune in a more conventional manner. Just my 2 cents in a much too long paragraph


In an attempt to eliminate confusion the issue is that people had problems with the #2 cam. Hoyt said there was no problem with the #2 cam. Hoyt then came out with the #2.1 cam (the implication being that there indeed must have been something wrong with the #2 cam since none of the other cams were changed). Hoyt would not replace the #2 cam with the #2.1 cam. This left owners who had problems with the #2 cam frustrated and upset with Hoyt as they felt Hoyt should have replace the #2 cam with the revised #2.1 cam. Hope that helps clear it up


----------



## hoytshooter03

ShootnBlind said:


> maybe like the halon x where they deepened the valley because the customers cant shoot worth a **** and blame the bow


Supposedly Levi had that problem and Mathews copied Elite?


----------



## Ermine

I had a #2 defiant 34. I shot bareshafts with fletched out to 50 yards. Bow was super accurate and shot lights out. It didn't time with the top cam hitting 1st like old models....big whoop!! Maybe there were some bad apples but my point is not all #2 cams tuned bad because me and other bows I tuned didn't have issues.


----------



## manofleisure

Not for nothing but it looks like PSE redesigned their carbon offering i.e. riser/roller cable guide and it remained at the same msrp as last years model. Still $1499 and steep but, they were able to do it.


----------



## _paradox_

nestly said:


> Actually, basic knowledge (not folklore) tells us that it doesn't matter if the nocking point is high, low, or level, as long as the nock is following the point. A low TEAR could indicate clearance problems, but a bullethole is a bullethole and means the nock is NOT below the arrow point as the arrow exits the bow, therefore it's no more prone to clearance issues than an arrow that shoots a bullethole with a nocking point that's level or above level.
> 
> The following animation demonstrates the different scenarios. All will shoot bulletholes because the nock is following the point, and none is more likely than the other to have rest contact.
> Sometimes you need nocking point ABOVE level to get a bullethole, and sometimes you need a nocking point BELOW level to get a bullethole. One is not "better" than the other.


Nestly, I think your animation is greatly oversimplifying how an arrow comes off a bow. Most two track binary cam bows have 1/2" high nock travel, but can tune just fine with the arrow level to the rest of the bow.


----------



## centershot

nestly said:


> Because for the existence of modern archery it has been taught nock point should be level to 1/4 high and some people could not accept that a bullet hole with a nock point 1/8" below level is no different than a bullet hole with a nock point 1/8 above level. Bows tuned and shot fine for those actually tuned their bows based on arrow flight instead of folklore. For many years Hoyt manual says to start with a level nock point and adjust up or down from there....some cannot accept that down is an option. The 2.1 was just to quiet those who squawked about a bow that tunes 1/8" nock low but are as happy as fleas on a dog if it tunes 1/8" tail high.? It was mostly those with low grips that had issues....those with mid to high grips generally tuned fine with level nock points


Well said.


----------



## nestly

_paradox_ said:


> Nestly, I think your animation is greatly oversimplifying how an arrow comes off a bow. Most two track binary cam bows have 1/2" high nock travel, but can tune just fine with the arrow level to the rest of the bow.


Yes it is overly simplified (and also greatly exaggerated) The point is simply to illustrate that there's no difference between a nock point above "level" and a nock point below "level" in terms of clearance or arrow flight. The nock point should be where ever it needs to be to get "straight" nock travel.


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

nestly said:


> Yes it is overly simplified (and also greatly exaggerated) The point is simply to illustrate that there's no difference between a nock point above "level" and a nock point below "level" in terms of clearance or arrow flight. The nock point should be whereever it needs to be to get "straight" nock travel.


You have A LOT more un-forgiveness in a bow that’s tuned “nock low” within the grip of the bow as in relation to clearance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nestly

Ncturkeycaller said:


> You have A LOT more un-forgiveness in a bow that’s tuned “nock low” within the grip of the bow as in relation to clearance.


How so... if the nock is traveling in a straight line from full draw to brace, why does it matter whether that straight line moving downward toward brace or upward toward brace? This is all based on old school thinking that you want the arrow nock to leave the bow slightly higher than the rest to give clearance, but that only means the nock point needs to be slightly above the power path, it does not matter whether the power path is generally angled down, generally angled up, or "level".


If you take a bow that shoots bullets at 1/8" *nock high* and raise the nock point 1/16", it's going to shoot a tail high tear and if you lower it from where it shoots "bullets", the fletching is going to crash the rest.

If you take a bow that shoots bullets at 1/8" *nock low* and raise the nock point 1/16", it's going to shoot a tail high tear and if you lower it from where it shoots "bullets", the fletching is going to crash the rest.

There is absolutely no difference except the perception that nock low is bad. If you take a bow that tunes best with the nock point slightly high and turn it upside down... guess what you have... a bow the tunes best when the nock is slightly low.... lol


----------



## ontarget7

This thread just points out who has really tuned quite a few DFX cams and who hasn’t. 

Of coarse there were issues and to pretend that nock low was the fix, give me a break. 
Depending on draw length for some to tune you had to be nock low plus bottom cam hitting first. 

You either are blind, don’t know how to tune or just haven’t tuned all the different draw lengths and cam sizes if you feel there wasn’t a problem. 

Hope they pull things together this year. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mathews32155

ontarget7 said:


> This thread just points out who has really tuned quite a few DFX cams and who hasn’t.
> 
> Of coarse there were issues and to pretend that nock low was the fix, give me a break.
> Depending on draw length for some to tune you had to be nock low plus bottom cam hitting first.
> 
> You either are blind, don’t know how to tune or just haven’t tuned all the different draw lengths and cam sizes if you feel there wasn’t a problem.
> 
> Hope they pull things together this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Absolutely 100%


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

ontarget7 said:


> This thread just points out who has really tuned quite a few DFX cams and who hasn’t.
> 
> Of coarse there were issues and to pretend that nock low was the fix, give me a break.
> Depending on draw length for some to tune you had to be nock low plus bottom cam hitting first.
> 
> You either are blind, don’t know how to tune or just haven’t tuned all the different draw lengths and cam sizes if you feel there wasn’t a problem.
> 
> Hope they pull things together this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s obviously ok for it to tune low and have the bottom cam hitting first right lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## -bowfreak-

I tuned one DFX cam and it tuned dead nuts level and shoots way better than I can.


----------



## A CASE DEEP

This thread is a trip. Lots of speculating and lies being told here just to stir the pot.


----------



## AZSpaniol

When are the bows going to be revealed tomorrow? I’m hoping the local dealer has the new Hoyt and PSE bows for me to try tomorrow. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Asells

AZSpaniol said:


> When are the bows going to be revealed tomorrow? I’m hoping the local dealer has the new Hoyt and PSE bows for me to try tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I saw between 2-4 pm mtn time


----------



## nestly

ontarget7 said:


> This thread just points out who has really tuned quite a few DFX cams and who hasn’t.
> 
> Of coarse there were issues and to pretend that nock low was the fix, give me a break.
> Depending on draw length for some to tune you had to be nock low plus bottom cam hitting first.
> 
> You either are blind, don’t know how to tune or just haven’t tuned all the different draw lengths and cam sizes if you feel there wasn’t a problem.
> 
> Hope they pull things together this year.


So just for kicks, I went back and read your initial review of the Defiant 30 DFX #2 (original #2) before the whole "nock low" thing blew up and everyone lost their minds. You were getting bulletholes and bareshafts and fletched were hitting together with the cams hitting the stops at the same time. 

I encourage everyone NOT to take my word for it, go read the review for yourselves. I'm not denying that some people had issues, but it's no different than why you see a butt load of "new" used bows from every manufacturer for sale 2 weeks after the early birds scooped them up.... not every bow suites every archer.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3233697


----------



## ontarget7

nestly said:


> So just for kicks, I went back and read your initial review of the Defiant 30 DFX #2 (original #2) and before the whole "nock low" thing blew up, you were getting bulletholes and bareshafts and fletched were hitting together with the cams hitting the stops at the same time.
> 
> I encourage everyone NOT to take my word for it, go read the review and look at the bareshaft pics when cams where hitting even and nock point was "level".
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3233697


You might want to read it again as I gave tips on how to modify things to get you to clean vertical nock travel. 
I also eluded to the grip being very sensitive and you have to shoot certain draw lengths with zero heal into the grip. Most all the contact is at the webbing between index finger and thumb. 

Well aware of the issues and what it takes for them to shoot clean. Was in direct contact with Hoyt about the whole ordeal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MBG Hunter

What time is the release tomorrow?


----------



## NYS Archer

They canceled the release due to the lack of interest observed here on AT. ;-)


----------



## Asells

MBG Hunter said:


> What time is the release tomorrow?


Ive seen between 2-4 pm mtn time


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

nestly said:


> So just for kicks, I went back and read your initial review of the Defiant 30 DFX #2 (original #2) before the whole "nock low" thing blew up and everyone lost their minds. You were getting bulletholes and bareshafts and fletched were hitting together with the cams hitting the stops at the same time.
> 
> I encourage everyone NOT to take my word for it, go read the review for yourselves. I'm not denying that some people had issues, but it's no different than why you see a butt load of "new" used bows from every manufacturer for sale 2 weeks after the early birds scooped them up.... not every bow suites every archer.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3233697


Don’t recall him ever saying he got bareshaft and fletched arrows to hit at the same time unless the made the bottom cam hit first. You keep repeating your self about your opinion of nock height. But you can’t answer why Hoyt cam out with a 2.1 cam that cleaned this problem up and I know because I ordered my 4th cd34 with the 2.1 cam and it tuned dead even at 90 degrees with both canna times dead nuts. Every other 2.1 was the same. It obviously was some sort of deal with Hoyt to redesign a cam if it was supposed to be that way. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bambikiller

ontarget7 said:


> This thread just points out who has really tuned quite a few DFX cams and who hasn’t.
> 
> Of coarse there were issues and to pretend that nock low was the fix, give me a break.
> Depending on draw length for some to tune you had to be nock low plus bottom cam hitting first.
> 
> You either are blind, don’t know how to tune or just haven’t tuned all the different draw lengths and cam sizes if you feel there wasn’t a problem.
> 
> Hope they pull things together this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I absolutely love my 17 turbo , have you had problems with them ? Mine was easy to tune .. bare shaft walk back bh etc no problem here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

bambikiller said:


> I absolutely love my 17 turbo , have you had problems with them ? Mine was easy to tune .. bare shaft walk back bh etc no problem here
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The turbo cam was good from the start 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MBG Hunter

Asells said:


> MBG Hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> What time is the release tomorrow?
> 
> 
> 
> Ive seen between 2-4 pm mtn time
Click to expand...

I just saw 9am mtn time on the hoyt forum.


----------



## bambikiller

Ncturkeycaller said:


> Don’t recall him ever saying he got bareshaft and fletched arrows to hit at the same time unless the made the bottom cam hit first. You keep repeating your self about your opinion of nock height. But you can’t answer why Hoyt cam out with a 2.1 cam that cleaned this problem up and I know because I ordered my 4th cd34 with the 2.1 cam and it tuned dead even at 90 degrees with both canna times dead nuts. Every other 2.1 was the same. It obviously was some sort of deal with Hoyt to redesign a cam if it was supposed to be that way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I found it to be true dead 90 with the turbo cam on the 17's but never played with the other cam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

Turbo cam was good. Only the reg dfx cam that originally a 2.0 number


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bambikiller

Ncturkeycaller said:


> Turbo cam was good. Only the reg dfx cam that originally a 2.0 number
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


GotchA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

bambikiller said:


> I absolutely love my 17 turbo , have you had problems with them ? Mine was easy to tune .. bare shaft walk back bh etc no problem here
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope, those are good to go 
Even the DFX cams in the #3 C slot is money. 
IMO they have gone to far on moving the grip up and it’s not playing well with the make up and take out of the cam track. 

Like I said, I hope they get things back on track


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ingo

Hoyt guys worst nightmare: 

They wake up and the new bow is called Defiant 2.0 ?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## mikesmith66

Ingo said:


> Hoyt guys worst nightmare:
> 
> They wake up and the new bow is called Defiant 2.0 ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


The Defiant 2.0 with 2.1A cams ??


----------



## boonerbrad

Be a 32" and a 35" offering as well as a 33" turbo model. No more 30". New riser design and a new cam design. Less color choices. The cam change is what i look forward to.


----------



## survivalistd

Yes will be exciting to see!!

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


----------



## zekezoe

Boonerbrad said:


> Be a 32" and a 35" offering as well as a 33" turbo model. No more 30". New riser design and a new cam design. Less color choices. The cam change is what i look forward to.


new aluminum riser, carbon is the same
more camo options
i heard about 100 bucks more.
are we going to see a point where people stop buying flagships due to cost? 
I love getting new bows every year, but that may be ending soon.


----------



## jtelarkin08

I just hope they get rid of the dang split yolks.. I like the risers for the most part.. I just like the tuning a mathews or elite better


----------



## Tiggie_00

Any press will work limbs would be a big plus


----------



## treestandnappin

Ingo said:


> Hoyt guys worst nightmare:
> 
> They wake up and the new bow is called Defiant 2.0 ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Ultra Pro Defiant


----------



## mez

jtelarkin08 said:


> I just hope they get rid of the dang split yolks.. I like the risers for the most part.. I just like the tuning a mathews or elite better


Different strokes. I hope they keep them. I'd rather not mess with shims.


----------



## azscorpion

order now.....delivered in April!!!!:darkbeer:


----------



## gregcoya

I heard now release date 25th


----------



## fallhunter

It will be on sale in the morning at my shop for $1499. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## fallhunter

Same old same old? What are you talking about? The cam system is all new. Nothing the same at all. There is no way this guy already shot one. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Moose39x

fallhunter said:


> It will be on sale in the morning at my shop for $1499.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


have you already got your 2018 bows from them


----------



## bowshootn70

Dunndm1 said:


> So there isn't any long draw bows? Highest is 28-31?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Carbon 35 goes to 32"


----------



## LetThemGrow

So what time and where can we see bows release?


----------



## THE ELKMAN

nestly said:


> Actually, basic knowledge (not folklore) tells us that it doesn't matter if the nocking point is high, low, or level, as long as the nock is following the point. A low TEAR could indicate clearance problems, but a bullethole is a bullethole and means the nock is NOT below the arrow point as the arrow exits the bow, therefore it's no more prone to clearance issues than an arrow that shoots a bullethole with a nocking point that's level or above level.
> 
> The following animation demonstrates the different scenarios. All will shoot bulletholes because the nock is following the point, and none is more likely than the other to have rest contact.
> Sometimes you need nocking point ABOVE level to get a bullethole, and sometimes you need a nocking point BELOW level to get a bullethole. One is not "better" than the other.


Wrong. Down force = accuracy. That is why Hoyt holds nearly ALL the world records. There is a difference. I don't want so called "perfect" nock travel. I want a gentle smooth downward stroke.


----------



## THE ELKMAN

ontarget7 said:


> Nope, those are good to go
> Even the DFX cams in the #3 C slot is money.
> IMO they have gone to far on moving the grip up and it’s not playing well with the make up and take out of the cam track.
> 
> Like I said, I hope they get things back on track
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Moving the grip "up"? Hmmm.


----------



## THE ELKMAN

The irony is: They are this year... LOL


----------



## THE ELKMAN

fallhunter said:


> Same old same old? What are you talking about? The cam system is all new. Nothing the same at all. There is no way this guy already shot one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


This is the truth^^^____ NOTHING


----------



## nestly

THE ELKMAN said:


> Wrong. Down force = accuracy. That is why Hoyt holds nearly ALL the world records. There is a difference. I don't want so called "perfect" nock travel. I want a gentle smooth downward stroke.


"Down" is relative. Whether 20 yards or 50 meters, arrows in a Target round are almost always launched "upward" relative to the horizon with "upward" nock travel, more like the "nock low" condition in the animation than the other two. If you're referring to a slight downward *curvature* of the nock travel, that can be done regardless of whether nock travel rises or falls below a straight line that's perpendicular to the riser or the string at brace.


----------



## bskneed05

way to expensive.


----------



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

I read 6pm est


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

MBG Hunter said:


> What time is the release tomorrow?


6pm EST according to FB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Southpaw

They just changed it to 12:00 EST. So a little less than an hour away.


----------



## TheKingofKings

40 minutes


----------



## Luv2shoot3D

Is bowjunky doing it again


----------



## Outsider

They changed it to 10:00am MT becuase UPS already start to drop them at the bow shop doors.


----------



## uphunter

Just got them in, WOW but can't post pics according to the rep. you ar going to love the carbon


----------



## pasc43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oViA4amdekk&feature=youtu.be


----------



## MaddSkillz

So, how much does it weigh?


----------



## Larry brown

Y’all start buying em up, when the NEW ones come out next year I will scoop these up! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## deer310sg

That vid looks impressive! Waiting on pics

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## LetThemGrow

uphunter said:


> Just got them in, WOW but can't post pics according to the rep. you ar going to love the carbon


Brace height?


----------



## uphunter

6 in


----------



## LetThemGrow

uphunter said:


> 6 in


Assume that's Turbo? What about other 2?


----------



## ChappyHOYT

What's up with the roller guard? Looks like they went away from the zero torque roller guard.


----------



## Deadeye1205

ChappyHOYT said:


> What's up with the roller guard? Looks like they went away from the zero torque roller guard.


Thank god they did. That thing created so much noise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nestly

ChappyHOYT said:


> What's up with the roller guard? Looks like they went away from the zero torque roller guard.


Video said the new cable system eliminated the need for a flexible cable guard, not sure I buy that entirely, but I never did agree with the "Zero Torque" claims.


----------



## ChappyHOYT

Watched the vid again. Supposedly the split cable system eliminates the need for a flexible guard system.


----------



## Disco89

I just talked to an area archery pro yesterday, we weren't talking hoyt, but he mentioned that the flagship model will MSRP at $1,900. If that is true, or even close, all I can say is WOW!!!! Price of archery equipment certainly hasn't followed the average cost of inflation or the stagnation of average wages. 
I'm curious...what if nobody bought that bow? What if hoyt consumers chose to wait, or chose a lower-priced hoyt with in all reality, quite similar performance but a quite lower price? How about if we all did that for this and other bow makers?
Would that cause a hiccup in the trend of increasing prices? Would it send a message that would be heard?


----------



## lees

The cost of Hoyt flagship bows has always been "too high" as far back as I can remember (into the late 80's). I don't remember the nominal prices off the top of my head, but the real prices have always been the proverbial arm-and-a-leg. And there have always been nascent movements to revolt, refuse to buy and try to drive the prices down. Clearly none of those efforts has ever succeeded . 

As for wages, real wages for the 99.9% are still about where they were in the 1960's mainly due to the decline in the USD, despite the meager adjustments in nominal wages for inflation. So Hoyt's top end bows have always been "1%'er" bows pretty much forever. 

In other words, don't bother with a rebellion . Hoyt will sell every $2000 bow they make since there will always be a market for them. 

I will say, however, that PSE did make a quantum leap into price parity with Hoyt in the last couple years with their target bows. Believe it or not, that may partly be to increase sales - the Supra Max was as good as any target bow on the market but was less than half the cost of its Hoyt competitors. They could have been priced too low. If something is significantly less money than a competitor, the market can think it's "cheap" and it won't sell as well..... That might be partly behind the recent huge jump in PSE's top line target bow prices....

The free market doesn't always work for the good of the average joe's like us... 

lee.


----------



## rojapar

I'm hoping they rounded off the edges of the limbs so they will quit splintering.


----------



## PAKraig

LetThemGrow said:


> Assume that's Turbo? What about other 2?


Nope, the Turbo is less....


----------



## Dn0614

PAKraig said:


> Nope, the Turbo is less....


Barely. I thought I read in the brochure that the turbo was 5 and 7/8


----------



## PAKraig

Dn0614 said:


> Barely. I thought I read in the brochure that the turbo was 5 and 7/8


Which is less than 6.

The point being, the regular "flagship" hunting bow is 6" and the Turbo is even less than that yet. I'm a hunter, I want a bit more brace....a bit more forgiving IMO.


----------



## George Charles

Disco89 said:


> I just talked to an area archery pro yesterday, we weren't talking hoyt, but he mentioned that the flagship model will MSRP at $1,900. If that is true, or even close, all I can say is WOW!!!! Price of archery equipment certainly hasn't followed the average cost of inflation or the stagnation of average wages.
> I'm curious...what if nobody bought that bow? What if hoyt consumers chose to wait, or chose a lower-priced hoyt with in all reality, quite similar performance but a quite lower price? How about if we all did that for this and other bow makers?
> Would that cause a hiccup in the trend of increasing prices? Would it send a message that would be heard?


What is Ironic is, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of Hoyts " Innovative" features are New to the archery industry. Curious to know the reason for the $$ increase.


----------



## mikeja

When are they announcing the aluminum bows (or did I miss it)? I'm hoping some Nitrums will hit the classifieds when people ha e to get their hands on the latest and greatest.


----------



## LetThemGrow

PAKraig said:


> Which is less than 6.
> 
> The point being, the regular "flagship" hunting bow is 6" and the Turbo is even less than that yet. I'm a hunter, I want a bit more brace....a bit more forgiving IMO.


6" for hunting? And only 340? Meh....


----------



## Outdoor City

Most dealers don't sale at MSRP....All the dealers in my area sale at MAP $1549.00


----------



## PAKraig

LetThemGrow said:


> 6" for hunting? And only 340? Meh....


Yep, agreed. I'm doing a Defiant 31 Turbo instead


----------



## Garfield

Overhyped!


----------



## markman

Awesome bows, I'll be ordering a Carbon RX-1 32, not sure on color yet, im thinking either buckskin or blackout!


----------



## Outsider

"Custom REDWRX bow case and hat. Included with every REDWRX Series bow."


----------



## Dn0614

PAKraig said:


> Which is less than 6.
> 
> The point being, the regular "flagship" hunting bow is 6" and the Turbo is even less than that yet. I'm a hunter, I want a bit more brace....a bit more forgiving IMO.


I understand that. I was trying to point out that the turbo only has a slightly lower brace height than the others. In the past years it was quite a bit lower.


----------



## Clocked92

Outsider said:


> "Custom REDWRX bow case and hat. Included with every REDWRX Series bow."
> View attachment 6280093


Well now we know where the price increase came from haha.


----------



## Larry brown

Have we decided if they new bows need the adapters? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dunndm1

Can someone pm me the link?! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Deadeye1205

Larry brown said:


> Have we decided if they new bows need the adapters?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They don’t!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## centershot

mikeja said:


> When are they announcing the aluminum bows (or did I miss it)? I'm hoping some Nitrums will hit the classifieds when people ha e to get their hands on the latest and greatest.


Curious also - do they still have the Powermax or lower priced bow?


----------



## MNarrow

Deadeye1205 said:


> They don’t!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you kidding? Two years of Defiants needed $240 adapters and now not needed??


----------



## Luv2shoot3D

Have they set the price tag yet


----------



## Deadeye1205

MNarrow said:


> Are you kidding? Two years of Defiants needed $240 adapters and now not needed??


Not kidding! Defiants will still be around and will still need adapters... so not a total waste.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## redman

For that price that better be new in every way


----------



## Outsider

Deadeye1205 said:


> Not kidding! Defiants will still be around and will still need adapters... so not a total waste.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So you telling us the pads at tips are there to press Hoyt in finger style press without any special fingers or adapters?


----------



## Deadeye1205

Outsider said:


> So you telling us the pads at tips are there to press Hoyt in finger style press without any special fingers or adapters?


According to Kevin Wilkey you can use regular fingers on a regular ez press. It’s all I know!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bourbon Boy

That's my problem with Hoyt, and I own three of them. They introduce new "Monster" ideas, raise prices, then drop the ideas in a year or two. Past parallel limbs-gone, limbshox-gone, flex cable guard-gone, pro-fit grip-possibly gone also. Why don't they simply improve on what they have, and do away with gimmicks? Carbon bows shouldn't need any vibration dampeners on them. Free bowcase was a PSE thing about two years ago, and Hoyt fanboys laughed at it. Defiant prices just dropped, no one will want one now, and the limb adapters will make them worthless. Makes me glad I kept my Nitrums. Speeds are better, but any bow will shoot faster with a shorter brace, not a monster year any way you look at it.--BB


----------



## Outsider

Deadeye1205 said:


> According to Kevin Wilkey you can use regular fingers on a regular ez press. It’s all I know!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did he mention that in the video?


----------



## bowhuntermitch

Outsider said:


> Did he mention that in the video?


No, in the comments of the video he shared on his page. He posted a picture as well.


----------



## Outsider

bowhuntermitch said:


> No, in the comments of the video he shared on his page. He posted a picture as well.


I can't find it.


----------



## bowhuntermitch

Outsider said:


> I can't find it.


He commented "Presses just fine in a normal EZ-Press."


----------



## Outsider

bowhuntermitch said:


> He commented "Presses just fine in a normal EZ-Press."


Oh wow. I was on his facebook page and did not see it anywhere.


----------



## Larry brown

Outsider said:


> Oh wow. I was on his facebook page and did not see it anywhere.


That Kinda sucks for you and UniGram. I would not be happy myself! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mikeja

A CASE DEEP said:


> This thread is a trip. Lots of speculating and lies being told here just to stir the pot.


This...


----------



## Outsider

Larry brown said:


> That Kinda sucks for you and UniGram. I would not be happy myself!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Larry this is business. You take the risk.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


----------



## fountain

Have they released them all now?


----------



## Larry brown

Outsider said:


> Larry this is business. You take the risk.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Yeah that’s true but I know it’s expensive to make stuff and try to make money! If I can get a hyperedge at a good price I will need some anyway. I like the shoot through riser and like the hyperedge. Prob won’t bother with a Defiant. 
Ok disappointed they didn’t make a longer aluminum model I was thinking about. New one instead of used. But kinda rules that out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Clocked92

bowhuntermitch said:


> He commented "Presses just fine in a normal EZ-Press."


Very interesting. In the 2018 manuals it still says the Ultra-lock adaptors are still required.


----------



## Outsider

Larry brown said:


> Yeah that’s true but I know it’s expensive to make stuff and try to make money! If I can get a hyperedge at a good price I will need some anyway. I like the shoot through riser and like the hyperedge. Prob won’t bother with a Defiant.
> Ok disappointed they didn’t make a longer aluminum model I was thinking about. New one instead of used. But kinda rules that out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Old bows still out there. Hopefully I will be able to sell the ones I have in stock

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


----------



## bowhuntermitch

Clocked92 said:


> Very interesting. In the 2018 manuals it still says the Ultra-lock adaptors are still required.


That is interesting. That being said, I’d follow what the manual says. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 4IDARCHER

Here’s what I am wondering about. 
Is the turbo 80-85% letoff, and does the speed rating change between the 80% and the 85% cam?


----------



## 78Staff

Deadeye1205 said:


> They don’t!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



But will they now need wide limb adapters instead...


----------



## rhendrix

I’ve shot Hoyt’s for a lot of years (7 to be exact) and just picked up a Halon 32, it would appear that Hoyt took a lot of ques from Mathews (lower grip, wider limb pockets, floating yokes, 85% let off mods, etc.). I’m not saying this is a bad thing or a good thing, as I haven’t shot an rx-1, but it’s cool to see them take some of the things I love from the Halon 32 and add it to their engineering


----------



## studogg99

I think this is my last year of Hoyt 17 carbon defiant. I have my carbon matrix g3 as well. Maybe in a few years I'll get back into but it's becoming an elitist brand. If PSE keeps up with the evo cam system and carbon. They will have my money.


----------



## ex-wolverine

MNarrow said:


> Are you kidding? Two years of Defiants needed $240 adapters and now not needed??


Phsyc!


----------



## bowtech3dhunter

4IDARCHER said:


> Here’s what I am wondering about.
> Is the turbo 80-85% letoff, and does the speed rating change between the 80% and the 85% cam?


I called Hoyt today and asked them that. The IBO ratings they advertise are with 85% letoff and they said 80% would be slightly faster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 307

bowtech3dhunter said:


> I called Hoyt today and asked them that. The IBO ratings they advertise are with 85% letoff and they said 80% would be slightly faster.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I thought Hoyt listed ATA speeds rather than IBO?


----------



## nestly

rhendrix said:


> it would appear that Hoyt took a lot of ques from Mathews (lower grip, wider limb pockets, floating yokes, 85% let off mods, etc.).


Lets not get carried away here... Hoyt was using floating yokes in the mid 90's, and Hoyt has been using wide limbs/limb pockets on thier target bows for quite a while.


----------



## KMiha

nestly said:


> Lets not get carried away here... Hoyt was using floating yokes in the mid 90's, and Hoyt has been using wide limbs/limb pockets on thier target bows for quite a while.


And if I’m seeing the video correctly, they still have a buss cable with yokes on the top cam. At least it looked that way in the video with the aluminum bows.


----------



## Tfranceschi

307 said:


> I thought Hoyt listed ATA speeds rather than IBO?


Yes they are


----------



## primal-bow

looks like they want to do what prime did last year with a more balanced bow. 

i do like the looks guess i'm going to testing them this weekend.


----------



## nestly

KMiha said:


> And if I’m seeing the video correctly, they still have a buss cable with yokes on the top cam. At least it looked that way in the video with the aluminum bows.


Yes, same split yoke at the top of the buss cable like before, but the bottom of the buss is now on a "floating yoke" which attaches to each side of the bottom cam. Draw stops on both sides of the lower cam will contact both of the lower buss cable yoke. I can see advantages and some possible disadvantages to that system, so I'm reserving judgement until I can put hands on it. I'm eager to get one into my draw fixture....


----------



## Predator

Impressive release overall IMO. The Hyperforce looks like a nice rig.

I'll be interested to hear more on the tuning front with these new cams once people get to testing them. Advertised speed is not great but decent considering they were around 330 with a 7" BH and assuming it's ATA which should result in them coming in faster on an IBO basis. The various uses of technology in a different way (whether or not you can argue "new" or not) is interesting and may prove very beneficial. Time will tell but I'm interested in learning more. I haven't owned a Hoyt in quite a few years but this one could end up being enough for me to give one a shot. But I need a lot more info before being in a position to pull the trigger.


----------



## full moon64

all short brace height,,and one 7 brace height is heavy ,,,no thx


----------



## Luv2shoot3D

What about the target bows did I miss it


----------



## NVVAhunt

Is it me or do these look like they will be able to be pressed with a normal press without the adapters? It may just be the angle but the limbs don't appear to be way past parallel like they were for the Defiant.


----------



## Jduff44

Just way to much money for the working man,


----------



## survivalistd

Jduff44 said:


> Just way to much money for the working man,


Better stop working.. [emoji41]

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


----------



## Elk_Thumper

rhendrix said:


> I’ve shot Hoyt’s for a lot of years (7 to be exact) and just picked up a Halon 32, it would appear that Hoyt took a lot of ques from Mathews (lower grip, wider limb pockets, floating yokes, 85% let off mods, etc.). I’m not saying this is a bad thing or a good thing, as I haven’t shot an rx-1, but it’s cool to see them take some of the things I love from the Halon 32 and add it to their engineering


Lol...of course not a cast riser that you can put on your knee and bend like a toy. Just saying... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## pete32

disappointed all way to short of brace height and too long of ATA ill pass and stick to the nitrum. and see what Mathews and bowtech and prime come out with


----------



## blance7

Do you have to use the lca adapters for the new Hoyt bows? The limb angle looks more like the older pre defiants.


----------



## bowcrete

Im sorry but Hoyt just layed a big old egg,not impressed, flame away if you want


----------



## A CASE DEEP

I am not a Hoyt rep but they have done exactly what they do every year. Regardless of how many people like it or don't like it, when they release the new bows, they are the most talked about, most watched, most anticipated bow company out there and I will be willing to bet the most popular. They wouldn't be where they are if they didn't continue to put out solid products. I think this years bow is going to surprise a lot of people


----------



## Zpotter

I agree not good at all. 6? brace height heavy, to much cam adjustment. Same carbon riser. I like the lower grip but that?s about it.


----------



## deer310sg

Well with a #2 cam set at 28" dl, that will put brace under 6". More like 5 3/4". Not good imo!! Tee's me off, was really wanting to give this a try.
Would a #3 cam set at 28" be right at 6" brace?


----------



## MELLY-MEL

Nice changes, in theory they seem like they should be awesome shooters. But, I will reserve judgment of any sort until I get to actually shoot them, but I’m very excited and have very high hopes


----------



## doughboy181

307 said:


> I thought Hoyt listed ATA speeds rather than IBO?


They do. He is incorrect.


----------



## deer310sg

Whatever they put out, they need a 6, 7 brace bow! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## joffutt1

survivalistd said:


> Better stop working.. [emoji41]
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Clever.


----------



## joffutt1

A CASE DEEP said:


> I am not a Hoyt rep but they have done exactly what they do every year. Regardless of how many people like it or don't like it, when they release the new bows, they are the most talked about, most watched, most anticipated bow company out there and I will be willing to bet the most popular. They wouldn't be where they are if they didn't continue to put out solid products. I think this years bow is going to surprise a lot of people


You could bet that and you would be wrong.


----------



## Zpotter

I agree they should have an option for a 6 and a 7


----------



## survivalistd

joffutt1 said:


> Clever.


No harm meant!! Just playing..

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


----------



## Q2DEATH

When bows hit the 900 dollar mark several years ago I gave the middle finger and went straight used, six months to 2 years old. 

I understand the why's and hows of why things need to increase in business particularly with the scam otherwise known as health insurance and the total government fellaciated health insurance lobbyists that buy the politicians off to screw us with their premium increases while decreasing the service and what health insurance will cover, cost increases in materials like aluminum and other things but with bows, I don't think the increases are completely justified. I'm over simplifying to some degree but the bow companies just come up with new designs and reprogram the cnc machines. Is all that really worth the 500 dollar a bow price jump we've seen in the last 6 or so years?


----------



## NCBuckNBass

pre yesterdey tons of hype on the 'finish' NOT GETTING IT.....is it 3d or something


----------



## richstang75

I bought a new halon 32 last month and I hate the grip. No more new bows for me. I'll find any Obsession used and shoots the lights out of the big name bows!


----------



## ontarget7

They finally took it to heart and lowered the grip. I suspect vertical nock travel will be much improved throughout the different cams and draw lengths. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gregcoya

Are the carbon bows 3.9 lbs? For carbon isn't that heavy?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Outsider

Anyone with the new hoyt bows. Can you send me a message. I need a favor.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


----------



## Predator

ontarget7 said:


> They finally took it to heart and lowered the grip. I suspect vertical nock travel will be much improved throughout the different cams and draw lengths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very much looking forward to your thought once you get your hands on one or two of these.


----------



## HookUp1

They reconfigured their bows to get the exact same performance and now a lower grip. I am just not a believer in HOYT would like to add one to the fleet cannot justify it.


----------



## Dunndm1

A CASE DEEP said:


> I am not a Hoyt rep but they have done exactly what they do every year. Regardless of how many people like it or don't like it, when they release the new bows, they are the most talked about, most watched, most anticipated bow company out there and I will be willing to bet the most popular. They wouldn't be where they are if they didn't continue to put out solid products. I think this years bow is going to surprise a lot of people


I personally like the long ATA longer brace. Just gotta see how the shot feel. I'm more of a "if it feels nice, I'll make it work" shooter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## THE ELKMAN

https://hoyt.com/compound-bows/hunting-bows


----------



## Ncturkeycaller

HookUp1 said:


> They reconfigured their bows to get the exact same performance and now a lower grip. I am just not a believer in HOYT would like to add one to the fleet cannot justify it.


You can say that about Mathews also....probably every other bow company also. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trial153

maybe they will give all their suckers ...i mean customers that ran out and bought adapters a 200 credit towards the 2018 model purchases?


----------



## timmymac24

or a lot of defiants sold as packages with press fingers included


----------



## Live4hunting

Looking at the new flag ship I like what I am seeing. lower grip new limbs cams cables and string. Looks good, but as far as I am concerned there can not be enough testing done till the public gets hands on to really test. So I will sit back one year see what happens and maybe pick up a used one in 19. I made up my mind last year im not buying anymore new bows, year old is fine with me. As far as the price point $1200 not that I think it is reasonable, all the flag ships run about the same. I paid $900 new for my Nitum, a year later bought a year old Nitrum for my son and paid $450 with quiver, $1000 for new Defiant for the GF. So total new design $1200 seems about par. So yep waiting for public testing and reduced prices.

Hate to tell you prices will not come down especially when people are paying it.


----------



## 307

The press issue is sort of what has kept me from even considering a Hoyt bow recently. I have a Bow Tune/Time Machine and didn't want to go through the hassle of additional fingers or warranty concerns. It looks like the new bows are able to be pressed without special fingers, but the legal team will not change their language in the literature. 

I wonder how many times Hoyt told customers that their warranty claims were invalid due to an improper press being used? I can see if the press actually damaged the bow, but I'm thinking that's not very common. 

All in all, I'm not sure what to think about the press issue. 

I'm surprised that Outsider is the one spreading information about the bow not needing special fingers (contrary to Hoyt literature) as he is one to benefit from the sale/necessity of those special fingers.


----------



## nestly

2015 and earlier Hoyts had limbs more "past parallel" than the current '18's with QuadFlex limbs. No such thing as "Hoyt adapters" in 2015... right? Common sense should tell us that if you could safely press a 2015 bow at "X" degrees past parallel without adapters, then you can also safely press a 2018 bow at less than "X" degrees past parallel... anyone disagree?


----------



## 307

Tipsntails7 said:


> That would throw up red flags to me.
> 
> If anyone can call or email and get that info, why it would be requested to keep it from being posted in an open forum is concerning.
> Is it simply a fact of they do not want customers who previously bought bows and adapters to be angry, or is it a liability reason. Either way seems odd.
> 
> Thanks for the info though.


We live in the most litigious society in the history of humanity. Companies have to do and say a lot of things just to minimize exposure to litigation rather than doing what is actually best for themselves and the customers.


----------



## Whaack

Anyone can call and ask Hoyt. The manual for lots of stuff says "don't do this" that we do every day.


----------



## MRHighCountry

I'm excited to see how these new bows shoot, though I'm not going to order one until I see how they tune up. Don't want to be a guinea pig.


----------



## Tiggie_00

I'm sure the tune will be fine. It appears Hoyt resolved cam lean and is moving in the right direction. But is it too late? Many Hoyt shops have closed up.


----------



## Tiggie_00

Carbon risers are only 75% carbon. The ends are alloy. But the increased weight come from the heavy duty limb and alloy pockets. I'm okay with it. But I see where you are coming from. We were at 3.6lbs.



gregcoya said:


> Are the carbon bows 3.9 lbs? For carbon isn't that heavy?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## azscorpion

More continued Hoyt podium domination


----------



## gregcoya

Tiggie_00 said:


> Carbon risers are only 75% carbon. The ends are alloy. But the increased weight come from the heavy duty limb and alloy pockets. I'm okay with it. But I see where you are coming from. We were at 3.6lbs.


Thanks for the clarification. Pse carbon air is 3.2 I believe. Loved my element

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Super 91

I personally won't look at a bow unless it is under 4 pounds. When I hunt out West, every ounce is a factor. Carrying a heavy bow just isn't going to happen. I outfit it with light accessories, and keep it at a weight I can tolerate. Yes, these Carbon bows are heavier, but still in my ballpark. With the new carbon lite quiver, I think the bow will end up at a weight that will be about perfect for my style of hunting. Looking forward to shooting these.


----------



## MRHighCountry

Super 91 said:


> I personally won't look at a bow unless it is under 4 pounds. When I hunt out West, every ounce is a factor. Carrying a heavy bow just isn't going to happen. I outfit it with light accessories, and keep it at a weight I can tolerate. Yes, these Carbon bows are heavier, but still in my ballpark. With the new carbon lite quiver, I think the bow will end up at a weight that will be about perfect for my style of hunting. Looking forward to shooting these.


If you really want a bow under 4 pounds you should take a scale with you to the bow shop. You'd be surprised how many bows are heavier than advertised, some by more than a half pound.


----------



## trial153

Super 91 said:


> I personally won't look at a bow unless it is under 4 pounds. When I hunt out West, every ounce is a factor. Carrying a heavy bow just isn't going to happen. I outfit it with light accessories, and keep it at a weight I can tolerate. Yes, these Carbon bows are heavier, but still in my ballpark. With the new carbon lite quiver, I think the bow will end up at a weight that will be about perfect for my style of hunting. Looking forward to shooting these.


I agree. I want the finished weight of the bow no more then 6.5 -6.75 pounds.


----------



## _paradox_

Tiggie_00 said:


> I'm sure the tune will be fine. It appears Hoyt resolved cam lean and is moving in the right direction. But is it too late? Many Hoyt shops have closed up.


Closed up? You mean like, gone out of business?


----------



## iammarty

Tiggie_00 said:


> I'm sure the tune will be fine. It appears Hoyt resolved cam lean and is moving in the right direction. But is it too late? Many Hoyt shops have closed up.


The only Hoyt shop that closed around here was not Hoyt's fault. The owner was a grumpy know-it-all who never missed an opportunity to let everyone know how great he was - and how little everyone else knew about everything. Outside of the shop his nickname was "Mr. Angry". I'm actually surprised he stayed in business as long as he did. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Super 91

MRHighCountry said:


> If you really want a bow under 4 pounds you should take a scale with you to the bow shop. You'd be surprised how many bows are heavier than advertised, some by more than a half pound.


I have found that to be the case with some aluminum riser bows, but so far the carbon bows have been spot on, and yes, I have a scale and do in fact weight them when I get them home.


----------



## joffutt1

Tiggie_00 said:


> Carbon risers are only 75% carbon. The ends are alloy. But the increased weight come from the heavy duty limb and alloy pockets. I'm okay with it. But I see where you are coming from. We were at 3.6lbs.


Yes but they were years prior with the fraction of the weight they just released.


----------



## Dunndm1

I've only been around for a few big releases and I personally think they did a good job. They changed a lot (in my eyes) for it to be a big talked about release. Do I think they are real expensive. Yes I do. But if you really love the bow and take good care of it you can have the bow for as long as you want... it'll still shoot great in 1 year or 20 years if you take good care of it. I can't justify spending 1500 or whatever it is for 1 year but I can for 15 years of shooting. 
Good release in ny opinion 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## THE ELKMAN

They put the press thing in the manual to keep their dealers happy... (Or basically to keep from pissing them off)


----------



## THE ELKMAN

MRHighCountry said:


> If you really want a bow under 4 pounds you should take a scale with you to the bow shop. You'd be surprised how many bows are heavier than advertised, some by more than a half pound.


Maaathews anyone???  (and the irony is their like 30 inches long)


----------



## ProXXX

Yea and the mathews bows aren't like carrying a brick. Blocky as ever.


----------



## 0nepin

I can't understand why Hoyt would build a 4.1lb carbon/alloy bow .only a hoyt fanboy can't justify that to themselves.they eliminated the biggest advantage of using carbon to build a bow .with only being 75% carbon why dose it cost so much .must be some expensive glues there using in China to hold all 50 pieces together?


----------



## MAD 6

iammarty said:


> The only Hoyt shop that closed around here was not Hoyt's fault. The owner was a grumpy know-it-all who never missed an opportunity to let everyone know how great he was - and how little everyone else knew about everything. Outside of the shop his nickname was "Mr. Angry". I'm actually surprised he stayed in business as long as he did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I didn't know Dales shop closed?


----------



## THE ELKMAN

MAD 6 said:


> I didn't know Dales shop closed?


I actually just blew some coffee out my nose! LMFAO!!!


----------



## THE ELKMAN

0nepin said:


> I can't understand why Hoyt would build a 4.1lb carbon/alloy bow .only a hoyt fanboy can't justify that to themselves.they eliminated the biggest advantage of using carbon to build a bow .with only being 75% carbon why dose it cost so much .must be some expensive glues there using in China to hold all 50 pieces together?


What is your favorite flavor?


----------



## Ermine

0nepin said:


> I can't understand why Hoyt would build a 4.1lb carbon/alloy bow .only a hoyt fanboy can't justify that to themselves.they eliminated the biggest advantage of using carbon to build a bow .with only being 75% carbon why dose it cost so much .must be some expensive glues there using in China to hold all 50 pieces together?


I don't personally shoot the carbon riser for the weight! I like the feel of it and how stiff they are and shootabilty for me. I always weigh mine down with accessories anyways


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## Outsider

I bought my carbon bow because of the weight. And the only thing I put on it is sight , rest and peep. No need for stabilizers. I shoot the bow exactly the same with them or not. Front stabilizer might kill some noise but probably not really noticeable. Show me a bow which someone shot and animal wasn't spooked by noise.


----------



## trial153

No Carbon bow is aesthetically pleasing to me compared to a machined aluminum riser. The only reason I would look at a carbon riser bow is for weight savings. I want the finished weight of my bow to be no more the 6.5 or 6.75 max ....closer to 6 is even better. Both aluminum riser set ups I have now are topping out at 6.5 pounds, There is no reason for me buy a carbon riser bow at a premium price that saves me no weight. When Hoyt first came out with their carbon risers offerings weight savings was touted at every opportunity....well now that they pumped them up on a Twinkie marketing diet weight doesn’t matter any more .....4 pounds is absurd for carbon riser bow. 

Not just from Hoyt but in general I am sick of all the bull **** smoke and mirror marketing from the majority of bow company’s today. They have painted themselves into a corner with expectations of totally revamped ground breaking lines every couple of years. They are creating a business model that is unsustainable and it will hurt the industry as whole.


----------



## Ybuck

really like what they've done this year!!!
a pricepoint offering woould've been nice?


----------



## Doebuster

MAD 6 said:


> I didn't know Dales shop closed?


Cheap shot ! That's funny right there !


----------



## MRHighCountry

Super 91 said:


> I have found that to be the case with some aluminum riser bows, but so far the carbon bows have been spot on, and yes, I have a scale and do in fact weight them when I get them home.


That's good. I remember weighing an Obsession that was .6 pounds heavier than advertised.


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## hoytshooter1

Ermine said:


> I don't personally shoot the carbon riser for the weight! I like the feel of it and how stiff they are and shootabilty for me. I always weigh mine down with accessories anyways


Exactly.......When you live in Wyoming and the wind, you learn to weigh your bow down a little to help hold better in the wind....plus I love how they look and how they feel at the shot


----------



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

trial153 said:


> No Carbon bow is aesthetically pleasing to me compared to a machined aluminum riser. The only reason I would look at a carbon riser bow is for weight savings. I want the finished weight of my bow to be no more the 6.5 or 6.75 max ....closer to 6 is even better. Both aluminum riser set ups I have now are topping out at 6.5 pounds, There is no reason for me buy a carbon riser bow at a premium price that saves me no weight. When Hoyt first came out with their carbon risers offerings weight savings was touted at every opportunity....well now that they pumped them up on a Twinkie marketing diet weight doesn’t matter any more .....4 pounds is absurd for carbon riser bow.
> 
> Not just from Hoyt but in general I am sick of all the bull **** smoke and mirror marketing from the majority of bow company’s today. They have painted themselves into a corner with expectations of totally revamped ground breaking lines every couple of years. They are creating a business model that is unsustainable and it will hurt the industry as whole.


I’ll say this about a Hoyt carbon bow. Being as old as I am, I’ve shot wood risers, cast risers, machined risers and now carbon risers.

Trust me when I tell you, the Hoyt carbon bow, is light years far and away from anything a machined riser does. You have to shoot it for a hunting season to get the feel differences.
The Carbon is well tamed, less vibration, I say quieter too. To me it’s the sheeeeeeet . I do like the weight, but that’s not the deciding factor. Another few ounces ain’t bogging me down. But that’s me and that’s how I feel. The carbon riser won me over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trial153

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> I’ll say this about a Hoyt carbon bow. Being as old as I am, I’ve shot wood risers, cast risers, machined risers and now carbon risers.
> 
> Trust me when I tell you, the Hoyt carbon bow, is light years far and away from anything a machined riser does. You have to shoot it for a hunting season to get the feel differences.
> The Carbon is well tamed, less vibration, I say quieter too. To me it’s the sheeeeeeet . I do like the weight, but that’s not the deciding factor. Another few ounces ain’t bogging me down. But that’s me and that’s how I feel. The carbon riser won me over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I filled the first archery tag I ever owned in 1991...a wooden riser Stemmler. Cast aluminum riser, check ..had a few of those too. Even had the carbon high country that came out way back in the day. Shot a few of carbon hoyts since they came out..and the carbon PSE. 
So I say this all this to state I have a pretty good handle on what I like and know suits me in some way shape or form. Carbon risers in themselves don't float my boat. they have to bring more to table for me to consider it. And weight is a big considation to my style of hunting.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

trial153 said:


> I filled the first archery tag I ever owned in 1991...a wooden riser Stemmler. Cast aluminum riser, check ..had a few of those too. Even had the carbon high country that came out way back in the day. Shot a few of carbon hoyts since they came out..and the carbon PSE.
> So I say this all this to state I have a pretty good handle on what I like and know suits me in some way shape or form. Carbon risers in themselves don't float my boat. they have to bring more to table for me to consider it. And weight is a big considation to my style of hunting.


Yeah man to each their own right ? You shoot Elite I think right ? I don’t care for limb stop bows myself. I do like my Obsession but I prefer my Hoyt’s and PSE’s over it.

Ford , Chevy kinda thing. But to me, to contrast what you like, the carbon riser by Hoyt has truly won me over until Hoyt ruins it or someone comes along and buries them which PSE seems to be trying to do. 

Since we both been shooting all those old bows, how amazed are you of today’s bows. I’m frankly in awe whenever I grab a new bow. They are just so compact starting with the grip. It’s amazing how great all bows are today. I suppose computer imaging had much to do with that ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Larry brown

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> I’ll say this about a Hoyt carbon bow. Being as old as I am, I’ve shot wood risers, cast risers, machined risers and now carbon risers.
> 
> Trust me when I tell you, the Hoyt carbon bow, is light years far and away from anything a machined riser does. You have to shoot it for a hunting season to get the feel differences.
> The Carbon is well tamed, less vibration, I say quieter too. To me it’s the sheeeeeeet . I do like the weight, but that’s not the deciding factor. Another few ounces ain’t bogging me down. But that’s me and that’s how I feel. The carbon riser won me over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I shot 2 for a couple years and didn’t care for the Carbon. I don’t have any vibration on my bare bow Nitrum Turbo. I don’t think the warmth everyone buzzes about is worth it to me as I don’t have that cold winters in the south. The weight is what I WANTED in a bow and I had to add to the carbon to make it the right weight. And the finishes are not as durable to me. I am pretty particular with my bows and I like aluminum better in the for durability. I may shoot the carbons and aluminum bows but don’t see myself buying another carbon. 


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## jsaufley

Just shot the rx 1 31 today. Shoots great. Not worth the price imho.


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## Lefty0027

Agree. Pricing are getting crazy with everything.


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## MRHighCountry

Has anyone checked bottom cam lean at brace and full draw yet to see how that floating yoke is working? Or has anyone tried to tune one yet?


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## Nilye

The animation you linked is wrong. It supposes that the arrow nock travel is linear (nock is following the arrow point) as in the condition where the string is perpendicular to an arrow. Since when nock is high or low the string is not perpendicular to an arrow there is small force vector that causes the nock is not travelling in straight line. This causes trajectory that is the main reason tear high or low to appear.
Sorry to say this animation could bring nothing but confusion.
Michal


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## Nilye

nestly said:


> Actually, basic knowledge (not folklore) tells us that it doesn't matter if the nocking point is high, low, or level, as long as the nock is following the point. A low TEAR could indicate clearance problems, but a bullethole is a bullethole and means the nock is NOT below the arrow point as the arrow exits the bow, therefore it's no more prone to clearance issues than an arrow that shoots a bullethole with a nocking point that's level or above level.
> 
> The following animation demonstrates the different scenarios. All will shoot bulletholes because the nock is following the point, and none is more likely than the other to have rest contact.
> Sometimes you need nocking point ABOVE level to get a bullethole, and sometimes you need a nocking point BELOW level to get a bullethole. One is not "better" than the other.


The animation you linked is wrong. It supposes that the arrow nock travel is linear (nock is following the arrow point) as in the condition where the string is perpendicular to an arrow. Since when nock is high or low the string is not perpendicular to an arrow there is small force vector that causes the nock is not travelling in straight line. This causes trajectory that is the main reason tear high or low to appear.

Sorry to say this animation could bring nothing but confusion.

Michal

PS Sorry for double post...


----------



## Ermine

trial153 said:


> No Carbon bow is aesthetically pleasing to me compared to a machined aluminum riser. The only reason I would look at a carbon riser bow is for weight savings. I want the finished weight of my bow to be no more the 6.5 or 6.75 max ....closer to 6 is even better. Both aluminum riser set ups I have now are topping out at 6.5 pounds, There is no reason for me buy a carbon riser bow at a premium price that saves me no weight. When Hoyt first came out with their carbon risers offerings weight savings was touted at every opportunity....well now that they pumped them up on a Twinkie marketing diet weight doesn’t matter any more .....4 pounds is absurd for carbon riser bow.
> 
> Not just from Hoyt but in general I am sick of all the bull **** smoke and mirror marketing from the majority of bow company’s today. They have painted themselves into a corner with expectations of totally revamped ground breaking lines every couple of years. They are creating a business model that is unsustainable and it will hurt the industry as whole.


I guess it's good they have two options. Because I personally think the carbons "look better" than aluminum. Aside from the looks I think they have less vibe and are quieter.


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## nestly

Nilye said:


> The animation you linked is wrong. It supposes that the arrow nock travel is linear (nock is following the arrow point) as in the condition where the string is perpendicular to an arrow. Since when nock is high or low the string is not perpendicular to an arrow there is small force vector that causes the nock is not travelling in straight line. This causes trajectory that is the main reason tear high or low to appear.
> 
> Sorry to say this animation could bring nothing but confusion.
> 
> Michal
> 
> PS Sorry for double post...


The animation only illustrates that if arrows can be tuned for optimum flight when the nocking point is above a "level", then so too can they be tuned optimally when the nocking point is below "level". The travel of the nock from brace to full draw and vice versa is determined by the takeup and letout rates of the top and bottom cams (also hand pressure and where the arrow/nock is positioned vertically between the top and bottom cam) There are a multitude of different scenarios that occur during the draw and "straight & level" is the least common of all of them. Proper "nock height" is determined by how a particular bow delivers a particular arrow when held by a particular archer....not some theoretical location that factors none of those 3 variables.


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## Nilye

nestly said:


> The animation only illustrates that if arrows can be tuned for optimum flight when the nocking point is above a "level", then so too can they be tuned optimally when the nocking point is below "level". The travel of the nock from brace to full draw and vice versa is determined but the takeup and letout rates of the top and bottom cams. There are a multitude of different scenarios that occur during the draw and "straight & level" is the least common of all of them.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Yes I can agree with you that takeup and letout on cams can compensate the effect to some extent but IMHO it is sub optimal compensation method. It would involve "custom" cam timing if I understand it correctly. And this could lead us to bad shooting results.

Michal


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## THE ELKMAN

MAD 6 said:


> I didn't know Dales shop closed?


I'm still laughing off this^^^


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## jnmvernetti

uphunter said:


> Just got my sneak peek form from Hoyt, $1200 for the new aluminum hunting bow and $1699 on the carbon hunting model, this in my mind is going to kill my Hoyt sales even further.


I agree


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## fountain

I see hoyt did away with the cages in the risers this year it looks like


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## THE ELKMAN

fountain said:


> I see hoyt did away with the cages in the risers this year it looks like


We lead. We don't follow...:mg::wink:


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## bowtech3dhunter

THE ELKMAN said:


> We lead. We don't follow...:mg::wink:













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## THE ELKMAN

You gotta love the "DUDE"...


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## lees

Nilye said:


> Yes I can agree with you that takeup and letout on cams can compensate the effect to some extent but IMHO it is sub optimal compensation method. It would involve "custom" cam timing if I understand it correctly. And this could lead us to bad shooting results.
> 
> Michal


Actually, no, altering the timing of the cams is one of the age-old methods of getting the "net" knock travel completely behind the arrow. On my Hoyt wheel bow it's the _only_ method that works lol. But it's also 40 year old technology and stands as a stark exception in modern bow times.

The main idea, though, is that no bow in actual practice has "level knock travel". Manufacturers are getting better at minimizing it all the time, but there will always be some amount of variation in the direction of the string at the knocking point as it moves back to brace height. In that sense I agree that the animation is a simplification, but it does illustrate the overall goal of knocking point location.

Strange but true: 25 years ago and prior, nobody even knew what "level/non-level knock travel" was. Nobody measured it on draw boards and it wasn't even a concept. And the situation stayed that way until Mathews brought the single cam design onto the market and said its main job was to introduce "level knock travel". And a star was born so to speak - a new non-problem with a nice, expensive solution to torture archers with . PS: not a slam on Mathews, they make superb bows....

However, bows tuned fine before that time. What we did before then was just adjust wheel timing, knocking point height and arrow spine until we got a level bareshaft at the bale. This is why I used the term "net knock travel" above - even with a varying of the knocking point position up and down over the movement to brace height, if the initial position of the arrow and the spine is correct, it will come off the string straight. It's not necessary for the bow to exhibit completely "level knock travel" to achieve this - it just has to be level _enough_ to stay behind the arrow overall. Sure if it's really really goofed up, you'll never get a good bareshaft out of it. But that's basically unheard of in modern bow designs, of course not counting defective cams and so forth...

In other words, don't worry about "level knock travel"; also don't worry about having to detime your cams slightly to achieve a proper tune on the bareshaft. Those are two non-problems that shouldn't interfere with your shooting.

lee.


----------



## Ingo

lees said:


> Actually, no, altering the timing of the cams is one of the age-old methods of getting the "net" knock travel completely behind the arrow. On my Hoyt wheel bow it's the _only_ method that works lol.
> The main idea, though, is that no bow in actual practice has "level knock travel". Manufacturers are getting better at it all the time, but there will always be some amount of variation in the direction of the string at the knocking point as it moves back to brace height. In that sense I agree that the animation is a simplification, but it does illustrate the overall goal of knocking point location.
> 
> Strange but true: 25 years ago and prior, nobody even knew what "level/non-level knock travel" was. And the situation stayed that way until Mathews brought the single cam design onto the market and said its main job was to introduce "level knock travel". And a star was born so to speak - a new non-problem with a nice, expensive solution to torture archers with .
> 
> However, bows tuned fine before that time. What we did before then was just adjust wheel timing, knocking point height and arrow spine until we got a level bareshaft at the bale. This is why I used the term "net knock travel" above - even with a varying of the knocking point position up and down over the movement to brace height, if the initial position of the arrow and the spine is correct, it will come off the string straight. It's not necessary for the bow to exhibit completely "level knock travel" to achieve this - it just has to be level enough. Sure if it's really really goofed up, you'll never get a good bareshaft out of it. But that's basically unheard of in modern bow designs, of course not counting defective cams and so forth...
> 
> In other words, don't worry about "level knock travel"; also don't worry about having to detime your cams slightly to achieve a proper tune on the bareshaft. Those are two non-problems that shouldn't interfere with your shooting.
> 
> lee.


Why are you complicating things with facts and reason, man?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## SHPoet

uphunter said:


> Just got my sneak peek form from Hoyt, $1200 for the new aluminum hunting bow and $1699 on the carbon hunting model, this in my mind is going to kill my Hoyt sales even further.


We have one of each camo pattern in the shop for demos. Selling, ordering really, at MAP, no one is even blinking.

Just my opinion here..... This bow will bring me back to Hoyt after being away for over 20 years. The SuperSlam drove me away. The REDWRX will bring me back into the fold.

And...... OH THAT GRIP!!!!!


----------



## gymrat70

MRHighCountry said:


> Has anyone checked bottom cam lean at brace and full draw yet to see how that floating yoke is working? Or has anyone tried to tune one yet?


I would be interested in this as well.


----------



## SHPoet

gymrat70 said:


> I would be interested in this as well.


Not tuned. Just set up for demo. There was *NO* noticeable cam lean. I'll try and do it on a draw board and see what I can see.


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## lees

Ingo said:


> Why are you complicating things with facts and reason, man?


It's just funny the things that can torture us... . I own the only modern bow with "knock travel" so bad that the wheel timing has to be visibly altered to get a level bareshaft, and Hoyt actually just quit making it this year. So now there's no excuse on the modern bow market today for bad "knock travel". Every compound bow you can buy today is so refined with variations in knock travel so minimized that even changing cam timing is almost not necessary at all. 

Therefore, I'm the only one that can complain about it and even then I'll finally give up, go to the press and put another turn in the bottom buss cable when it starts slinging a knock-high bareshaft.....



lee.


----------



## PAKraig

SHPoet said:


> We have one of each camo pattern in the shop for demos. Selling, ordering really, at MAP, no one is even blinking.
> 
> Just my opinion here..... This bow will bring me back to Hoyt after being away for over 20 years. The SuperSlam drove me away. The REDWRX will bring me back into the fold.
> 
> And...... OH THAT GRIP!!!!!


You mean the bow is so good that no one is even worried about the price? Just ordering new ones regardless?


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## SHPoet

PAKraig said:


> You mean the bow is so good that no one is even worried about the price? Just ordering new ones regardless?


I'm not saying "not worried". I'm just saying they are ordering it.


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## PAKraig

SHPoet said:


> I'm not saying "not worried". I'm just saying they are ordering it.


LOL. Better wording!


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## nestly

I can buy new 2018 HyperForce for $150 more than I paid for a new Nitrum in 2015. Considering the spike in aluminum prices, I don't think that's bad at all. Yes, the high end bows are generally overpriced IMO, but it's not just one brand. 

There is definitely a lot more cost involved in producing a carbon riser vs aluminum. If you look at other parts such as bicycle frames or automotive parts, the cost difference between an aluminum and carbon bow does not seem unreasonable.


----------



## Bourbon Boy

A large billet of aluminum isn't no where near as expensive as you may think. About 1/4 of the bow's price-tops. Carbon bows require no machine time except for cams and all the bolt/glue on pieces. It would be cheaper to make a carbon bow than a bow like a Podium or any shoot through riser. Plus these bows are usually anodized adding to the cost more. Hoyt did away with most of the "birdhouse" cutouts on the new models with the exception of the really high end target bows, and the left over Defiants. Why, it added another set-up just to mill these out, takes longer, unless they have a 4 or 5 axis mill which is unlikely. --BB


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## nestly

If you think there's less time building a carbon riser than machining an aluminum riser you haven't a clue. CNC's probably turn a 13lb pound aluminum billet into a 9 lb pound pile of chips and a completed riser in 15-20 minutes. A Hoyt carbon riser takes days to lay up with all the different layers and cure times.


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## antler addict

Anyone else actually weigh the new carbon rx1? The one I saw at a local dealer weighed in at 4.4 lbs bare bow. I thought that was odd that it was a half pound heavier than advertised. It was done on a calibrated shipping scale too. Maybe it was just an extra heavy one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Predator

I don't care how involved the process to make a carbon riser is. Production time isn't relevant to the customer - only real and/or perceived benefits are.

On the surface it is not evident to me why anyone would buy the RX-1 when they can buy the Hyperforce. Other than the carbon riser they are 100% the exact same bow. Same cams and everything else attached and same specs. And the weight diff is now negligible (maybe more so if they actually weigh 4.4 lbs).

So we are down to looks and a "warm" riser - which you aren't really touching since your hand is on the plastic grip. The price diff seems crazy given what you get for it by comparison.

Granted, I haven't yet shot these bows so it's possible I'll be blown away by the RX-1 and buy it despite the complete lack of logic behind doing so but I would be a bit surprised. The Hoyt carbon's have yet to convince me in the past. The Hyperforce, however, looks like a great bow for a more reasonable price. Either way, looking forward to shooting them at some point - will need to wait until after the rut though - too busy between work and hunting to go shoot bows right now.


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## primal-bow

Predator said:


> I don't care how involved the process to make a carbon riser is. Production time isn't relevant to the customer - only real and/or perceived benefits are.
> 
> On the surface it is not evident to me why anyone would buy the RX-1 when they can buy the Hyperforce. Other than the carbon riser they are 100% the exact same bow. Same cams and everything else attached and same specs. And the weight diff is now negligible (maybe more so if they actually weigh 4.4 lbs).
> 
> So we are down to looks and a "warm" riser - which you aren't really touching since your hand is on the plastic grip. The price diff seems crazy given what you get for it by comparison.
> 
> Granted, I haven't yet shot these bows so it's possible I'll be blown away by the RX-1 and buy it despite the complete lack of logic behind doing so but I would be a bit surprised. The Hoyt carbon's have yet to convince me in the past. The Hyperforce, however, looks like a great bow for a more* reasonable price.* Either way, looking forward to shooting them at some point - will need to wait until after the rut though - too busy between work and hunting to go shoot bows right now.


reasonable price is every thing now these day.


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## bowtech3dhunter

Predator said:


> I don't care how involved the process to make a carbon riser is. Production time isn't relevant to the customer - only real and/or perceived benefits are.
> 
> On the surface it is not evident to me why anyone would buy the RX-1 when they can buy the Hyperforce. Other than the carbon riser they are 100% the exact same bow. Same cams and everything else attached and same specs. And the weight diff is now negligible (maybe more so if they actually weigh 4.4 lbs).
> 
> So we are down to looks and a "warm" riser - which you aren't really touching since your hand is on the plastic grip. The price diff seems crazy given what you get for it by comparison.
> 
> Granted, I haven't yet shot these bows so it's possible I'll be blown away by the RX-1 and buy it despite the complete lack of logic behind doing so but I would be a bit surprised. The Hoyt carbon's have yet to convince me in the past. The Hyperforce, however, looks like a great bow for a more reasonable price. Either way, looking forward to shooting them at some point - will need to wait until after the rut though - too busy between work and hunting to go shoot bows right now.


I don’t know dude, a jumped on the carbon bandwagon with a carbon spyder and haven’t and won’t go back to aluminum, there is just something about them. Just my opinion 


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## primal-bow

bowtech3dhunter said:


> I don’t know dude, a jumped on the carbon bandwagon with a carbon spyder and haven’t and won’t go back to aluminum, there is just something about them. Just my opinion
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


their just are not worth the price $1,600 + taxes. maybe i could understand the rising cost in bow prices if other prices went up but all of my bill are the same price including the prices at the pump.


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## RavinHood

antler addict said:


> Anyone else actually weigh the new carbon rx1? The one I saw at a local dealer weighed in at 4.4 lbs bare bow. I thought that was odd that it was a half pound heavier than advertised. It was done on a calibrated shipping scale too. Maybe it was just an extra heavy one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I weighed one and it weighed 4.2lbs but forgot to weigh the aluminum bow will do that in the am 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ingo

bowtech3dhunter said:


> I don’t know dude, I jumped on the carbon bandwagon with a carbon spyder and haven’t and won’t go back to aluminum, there is just something about them.


Having the most expensive one feels good.

_Superiority complex*is a psychological defense mechanism that compensates for an*inferiority complex.[1]*The term was coined by*Alfred Adler*as part of his school of*individual psychology. It was introduced in his series of books, including*"Understanding Human Nature"*and*"Social Interest"._




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## primal-bow

Ingo said:


> Having the most expensive one feels good.
> 
> _Superiority complex*is a psychological defense mechanism that compensates for an*inferiority complex.[1]*The term was coined by*Alfred Adler*as part of his school of*individual psychology. It was introduced in his series of books, including*"Understanding Human Nature"*and*"Social Interest"._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


so you have an *inferiority complex* and you're trying to make up for it by buying the most expensive bow?


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## Ingo

primal-bow said:


> so you has an *inferiority complex* and trying to make up for it by buying the most expensive bow?


I was kidding... 


But I'm sure that's it for some guys. 

I'm happy with buying year-old or current model year bows used. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## primal-bow

Ingo said:


> I was kidding...
> 
> 
> But I'm sure that's it for some guys.
> 
> I'm happy with buying year-old or current model year bows used.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


lol..


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## nestly

Predator said:


> Granted, I haven't yet shot these bows so it's possible I'll be blown away by the RX-1 and buy it .....


Go shoot a Carbon RX-1 vs the HyperForce. There is definitely something "different" about the feel of the carbon bow, both when you handle them and when you shoot them. Personally, whatever is "different" does not invoke the "wow factor" for me, but I can easily understand how it would for some people.... obviously it's not an insignificant number of people either.


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## THE ELKMAN

gymrat70 said:


> I would be interested in this as well.


They are very straight. These bows tune as simple, and straight as any bow ever produced.


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## soldierarcher

FWIW, I have a 2015 Carbon Spyder Turbo and a 2015 Nitrum Turbo. I like to shoot the Carbon Spyder more than the Nitrum and the Nitrum is a very nice bow. The Carbon is just different. I've heard Dudley say that the Carbon risers are stiffer but yet he still gravitates to aluminum, but for me the Carbon is just always consistent. Don't get me wrong the Nitrum is very good.

So I understand the canumdrum with the RX1 and the Hyperforce.


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## nestly

soldierarcher said:


> FWIW, I have a 2015 Carbon Spyder Turbo and a 2015 Nitrum Turbo. I like to shoot the Carbon Spyder more than the Nitrum and the Nitrum is a very nice bow. The Carbon is just *different*. I've heard Dudley say that the Carbon risers are stiffer but yet he still gravitates to aluminum, but for me the Carbon is just always consistent. Don't get me wrong the Nitrum is very good.
> 
> So I understand the canumdrum with the RX1 and the Hyperforce.


Agree. 
"Different" is why we have all these bow companies offering many models each, otherwise it would be clear cut which is the "best" and all the others would not sell. There's more the the carbon riser than just weight, and there's more to the carbon riser than just the grip temperature in cold weather. It simply feels "different" than an aluminum model that's otherwise the same. As with all brands and models, go shoot one and decide for *yourself* whether you like the "different" feel, and then whether it's "different" enough to be worth the extra cost. Nobody knows how an Evolve cam feels until you actually draw/shoot it, and you don't know how a carbon RX "feels" either until you try it. You might like the Evolve cam.... you might not, you might like the carbon, you might not, but at least give each fair shake before becoming an advocate for or against. geez.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

bowtech3dhunter said:


> I don’t know dude, a jumped on the carbon bandwagon with a carbon spyder and haven’t and won’t go back to aluminum, there is just something about them. Just my opinion
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I started with the Matrix Plus, which was the second year Matrix with roller guard. I’ve been pretty much just buying carbon since with the exception of an Obsession Evolution and a xtreme designs diablo by Richard Batdorf. 

I’m truly sold, for my application of hunting on Hoyt carbon. Tried Bowtech carbon but the grip was awful. Haven’t tried the pse yet but intend to when I see one that appeals to me all around. Right now they look like a hangover Matrix.


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## soldierarcher

That's what I was trying to say Nestly Thanks,


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## cschwanz

nestly said:


> Agree.
> "Different" is why we have all these bow companies offering many models each, otherwise it would be clear cut which is the "best" and all the others would not sell. There's more the the carbon riser than just weight, and there's more to the carbon riser than just the grip temperature in cold weather. It simply feels "different" than an aluminum model that's otherwise the same. As with all brands and models, go shoot one and decide for *yourself* whether you like the "different" feel, and then whether it's "different" enough to be worth the extra cost. Nobody knows how an Evolve cam feels until you actually draw/shoot it, and you don't know how a carbon RX "feels" either until you try it. You might like the Evolve cam.... you might not, you might like the carbon, you might not, but at least give each fair shake before becoming an advocate for or against. geez.


The internet is no place for common sense like this


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## chirojh

I shot both the RX1 and the hyperforce. I really figured the hyperforce would be more dead in hand from years past experience but for some reason the hyperforce had more vibration than the RX1. Felt more like string buzz of some sort. I also have a carbon spyder and it has more hand feedback than the RX1 also. For a carbon bow the RX1 is very dead in hand.


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## Bourbon Boy

nestly said:


> If you think there's less time building a carbon riser than machining an aluminum riser you haven't a clue. CNC's probably turn a 13lb pound aluminum billet into a 9 lb pound pile of chips and a completed riser in 15-20 minutes. A Hoyt carbon riser takes days to lay up with all the different layers and cure times.


Haven't a clue? The riser could be machined in the time you stated, no problem, but finished-no way. They go to vibratory deburr to mask machining lines and endmill marks, they have to be drilled and tapped on at least two different set-ups. The shoot through and birdhouse designed risers would take another step. All this with care being used to not warp the riser, and make it bowed or crooked. Finish would take the same time for either material, unless it's anodized. A monocoque design carbon riser (one piece) laid over a form would take a while longer, but really doubtful about "days". With the glue they have now days it doesn't take long, we sealed the fuel tanks on the B1B bomber in less than 15 minutes at assembly back in the late 80"s.--BB


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## Tiggie_00

I drove 1hr yesterday to see the Hoyt RX1 destroyed.. lol. I was shooting the bull checking out the new bows at my local Pro shop. He stated the new 2018 Hoyts could be pressed on a old press with no adapters.. I was like cool and he popped it in to put a few twists in the string. Slam the bow flew out the bottom of the press and banged up the bow pretty hard. That didn't work. Lol


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## Outsider

Do you guys think they made the bottom limb pocket wider because of the cable being connected on both sides of cam and they need more room. Or is it really for the weight distribution?


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## catbad

These prices are getting out of hand


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## Larry brown

Outsider said:


> Do you guys think they made the bottom limb pocket wider because of the cable being connected on both sides of cam and they need more room. Or is it really for the weight distribution?


After seeing them I would say they are a mixture of both. More so the needed more room but I see the weight adds to the balance also. 


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## Outsider

Larry brown said:


> After seeing them I would say they are a mixture of both. More so the needed more room but I see the weight adds to the balance also.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably. The only thing that bothers me is that tube that connects the bottom cables. I don't know why but it feels to me like it might tilt to one side and slide down the cable. I know Hoyt engineers are not some high school guys and they know what they doing but it's just simply bothering to me.


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## Dunndm1

soldierarcher said:


> FWIW, I have a 2015 Carbon Spyder Turbo and a 2015 Nitrum Turbo. I like to shoot the Carbon Spyder more than the Nitrum and the Nitrum is a very nice bow. The Carbon is just different. I've heard Dudley say that the Carbon risers are stiffer but yet he still gravitates to aluminum, but for me the Carbon is just always consistent. Don't get me wrong the Nitrum is very good.
> 
> So I understand the canumdrum with the RX1 and the Hyperforce.


I had 3 aluminum bows before a carbon. I also shoot the carbon spyder and I feel a lot more comfortable/more consistent with it 


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## Larry brown

Outsider said:


> Probably. The only thing that bothers me is that tube that connects the bottom cables. I don't know why but it feels to me like it might tilt to one side and slide down the cable. I know Hoyt engineers are not some high school guys and they know what they doing but it's just simply bothering to me.


I didn’t look at it close because they were busy where I went and I just held it and shot a few shots and got out of the way. I will have to look at that and see. I know Mathews has had it awhile with no problem I know of but it’s a different system also. 


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## PAKraig

Tiggie_00 said:


> I drove 1hr yesterday to see the Hoyt RX1 destroyed.. lol. I was shooting the bull checking out the new bows at my local Pro shop. He stated the new 2018 Hoyts could be pressed on a old press with no adapters.. I was like cool and he popped it in to put a few twists in the string. Slam the bow flew out the bottom of the press and banged up the bow pretty hard. That didn't work. Lol


So we still adapters....good to know! :thumbs_up


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## PAKraig

bowtech3dhunter said:


> I don’t know dude, a jumped on the carbon bandwagon with a carbon spyder and haven’t and won’t go back to aluminum, there is just something about them. Just my opinion
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Completely agree. I bought a 2014 Carbon Spyder Turbo early this year as my first-ever carbon bow. Now I've got 2 different versions of the Carbon Defiant and I don't see me *ever *shooting a metal bow again.


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## hoytshooter03

primal-bow said:


> their just are not worth the price $1,600 + taxes. maybe i could understand the rising cost in bow prices if other prices went up but all of my bill are the same price including the prices at the pump.


That is why I buy Carbon Bows. Not only do I look like I know how to shoot but I feel good shooting them. From the Matrix all the way to the 2018's carbon baby.


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## ravensgait

catbad said:


> These prices are getting out of hand


LOL good thing you're not into fly fishing then, 1000 dollar carbon (graphite) fly rods ! 
LOL I agree bow prices are getting out there but they are not alone in that


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## HoytFlinger

They are getting out of hand because we, archers, allow it by continuing to buy overpriced bows.


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## Predator

Tiggie_00 said:


> I drove 1hr yesterday to see the Hoyt RX1 destroyed.. lol. I was shooting the bull checking out the new bows at my local Pro shop. He stated the new 2018 Hoyts could be pressed on a old press with no adapters.. I was like cool and he popped it in to put a few twists in the string. Slam the bow flew out the bottom of the press and banged up the bow pretty hard. That didn't work. Lol


Yikes - not good. This is a negative fact as the already high price of the bows just went higher unless you already own the adapters. I will shoot the new bows when I get around to it but that alone might keep me away - they would have to be heads above everything else out there by a wide margin to justify that cost. We shall see.


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## trial153

Hoyt is now offering a bow and bow press adapter combo! It can be your all for four easy payments of 479.99 plus shipping and handling!


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## Dunndm1

trial153 said:


> Hoyt is now offering a bow and bow press adapter combo! It can be your all for four easy payments of 479.99 plus shipping and handling!


Instead of car payments it's now bow payments [emoji23]


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## trial153

Dunndm1 said:


> Instead of car payments it's now bow payments [emoji23]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


we are already there. go to elites website. they are offering 12 month financing


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## Dunndm1

trial153 said:


> we are already there. go to elites website. they are offering 12 month financing


What?! Hahaha i mean it's not a bad idea from there point. But it's quite funny 


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## trial153

Bows are getting stupid. I have a 2016 and 2017 model, bought them both used. I bet I can get about 60% of what I got into them. What the hell will I really get out of a 2018 model ....not much at all. I am slowly breaking myself out of bow buying just for the principle of it.


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## General RE LEE

Just ordered a blackout Hyperforce. Was thinking RX1 but the Hyperforce is pretty dang sweet plus a pretty penny less expensive. 


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## Rhyno_09

General RE LEE said:


> Just ordered a blackout Hyperforce. Was thinking RX1 but the Hyperforce is pretty dang sweet plus a pretty penny less expensive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you shoot them side by side and notice any difference?


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## General RE LEE

Rhyno_09 said:


> Did you shoot them side by side and notice any difference?


Nope pre ordered. 


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## Rhyno_09

General RE LEE said:


> Nope pre ordered.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cool. I shot them both and the carbon and aluminum were both nice, so tough to notice a difference between then, but then again, I shot them out of the box, so wondering how much different it would be if they were properly tuned first. I ordered the aluminum at first, but then a buddy convinced me to change to carbon because I shoot 80# limbs and crancked down it seems like I may get #83 and he said I may or maynot regret the aluminum, but the carbon I would not (oh..the mind games with buying a bow...lol)


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## General RE LEE

Rhyno_09 said:


> Cool. I shot them both and the carbon and aluminum were both nice, so tough to notice a difference between then, but then again, I shot them out of the box, so wondering how much different it would be if they were properly tuned first. I ordered the aluminum at first, but then a buddy convinced me to change to carbon because I shoot 80# limbs and crancked down it seems like I may get #83 and he said I may or maynot regret the aluminum, but the carbon I would not (oh..the mind games with buying a bow...lol)


Nice!

Yep I went with the Hyperforce for various reasons but the RX1 will be good as well. 


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## MRHighCountry

Rhyno_09 said:


> Cool. I shot them both and the carbon and aluminum were both nice, so tough to notice a difference between then, but then again, I shot them out of the box, so wondering how much different it would be if they were properly tuned first. I ordered the aluminum at first, but then a buddy convinced me to change to carbon because I shoot 80# limbs and crancked down it seems like I may get #83 and he said I may or maynot regret the aluminum, but the carbon I would not (oh..the mind games with buying a bow...lol)


Did you go with the 32" model or the "35?


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## Rhyno_09

MRHighCountry said:


> Did you go with the 32" model or the "35?


32". I figured it would give me better clearance in ground blinds and my stand, and since my halon is 32 right now and I like that ATA...figured I would just stick with 32". It still has a good string angle for me. I still had to move my head a little bit, but the D-loop on the demo was pretty long, so figured with a shorter D-loop, I will be fine.

You? go with the 32 or 35?


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## MRHighCountry

Rhyno_09 said:


> 32". I figured it would give me better clearance in ground blinds and my stand, and since my halon is 32 right now and I like that ATA...figured I would just stick with 32". It still has a good string angle for me. I still had to move my head a little bit, but the D-loop on the demo was pretty long, so figured with a shorter D-loop, I will be fine.
> 
> You? go with the 32 or 35?


I've shot the 32" at the shop but that's it. I'm waiting to see how these things tune and perform before I do anything. If I had to choose right now I'd probably go with the 35" version.

Besides I have a Halon X that I haven't completely put through its paces yet.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

trial153 said:


> Bows are getting stupid. I have a 2016 and 2017 model, bought them both used. I bet I can get about 60% of what I got into them. What the hell will I really get out of a 2018 model ....not much at all. I am slowly breaking myself out of bow buying just for the principle of it.


Sadly you are right. I remember trading out of a new bow every year for $150. 

Now ? I bet you lose a G note ?

I think I’m going to go with the Carbon 1 or the turbo and then shut down buying. 

I’ll just restring them instead of buying new. 

We were the people who enabled companies to do this to us by buying and buying, including recruiting new archers who buy.

They stuck it to us again ! Same with trapshooting. Perazzi shotguns were $900 for a new TM1. 5 years later and several big championships they were $5000.

I’ve seen it all too often. QAD and Whisper biscuits rests, Spott Hogg and Extreme sights. 5x the price.

I’m starting to puke too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trial153

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> Sadly you are right. I remember trading out of a new bow every year for $150.
> 
> Now ? I bet you lose a G note ?
> 
> I think I’m going to go with the Carbon 1 or the turbo and then shut down buying.
> 
> I’ll just restring them instead of buying new.
> 
> We were the people who enabled companies to do this to us by buying and buying, including recruiting new archers who buy.
> 
> They stuck it to us again ! Same with trapshooting. Perazzi shotguns were $900 for a new TM1. 5 years later and several big championships they were $5000.
> 
> I’ve seen it all too often. QAD and Whisper biscuits rests, Spott Hogg and Extreme sights. 5x the price.
> 
> I’m starting to puke too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can go buy a freaking Kimber use it for two years and get back 85 % or more of what I paid for it. 
it's not even about the money at this point, buying bows isn't going cut into anything for me money wise...its just the amount of bull **** they feed us.


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## Dunndm1

trial153 said:


> I can go buy a freaking Kimber use it for two years and get back 85 % or more of what I paid for it.
> it's not even about the money at this point, buying bows isn't going cut into anything for me money wise...its just the amount of bull **** they feed us.


I only make 820ish dollars a week hahah so for me, 1500 for a bow is 2 weeks of work. 2 weeks of my life for a bow. So money to me is a huge problem hahahah 
Anyone hiring? [emoji23]


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## trial153

Dunndm1 said:


> I only make 820ish dollars a week hahah so for me, 1500 for a bow is 2 weeks of work. 2 weeks of my life for a bow. So money to me is a huge problem hahahah
> Anyone hiring? [emoji23]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Buddy I know where you're coming from I wasn't trying to be crass as far as what a dollar means. I been there.

What I'm getting at is that both companies are really starting to look like a bunch of slimy greedy b******* to me.


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## Dunndm1

trial153 said:


> Buddy I know where you're coming from I wasn't trying to be crass as far as what a dollar means. I been there.
> 
> What I'm getting at is that both companies are really starting to look like a bunch of slimy greedy b******* to me.


I was just being sarcastic about the money. (Not how much I make) but i was making a joke. I agree with you, it's just bad. Everything is going from your average guy (like me) being able to afford stuff to slowly slimming down the herd to where only certain people can afford it. 


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## highwaynorth

trial153 said:


> we are already there. go to elites website. they are offering 12 month financing


It won't be long and it will be up to 60 mo. Maybe they will even offer a lease program.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

trial153 said:


> I can go buy a freaking Kimber use it for two years and get back 85 % or more of what I paid for it.
> it's not even about the money at this point, buying bows isn't going cut into anything for me money wise...its just the amount of bull **** they feed us.


Speaking of Kimber ? Lol [emoji23] I just bought 2 of them. Hey, my Colt officers .45 was $550 back in 1987 or so. It’s worth more today.

I’m with you on the cost aspect. But the point is, as a man, I know when someone is hanging to me in the asssssss and sometimes I say, F U too , I’m out.

Anything over $750 for a metal riser is too much. Anything over $1200 for a Carbon is too much,,,, in my book. Not that I haven’t paid more, but because it’s reality, the rest is manufacturing greed.

One day, archers will boycott and take a knee buying and things might change.


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## Dunndm1

highwaynorth said:


> It won't be long and it will be up to 60 mo. Maybe they will even offer a lease program.


Hahahah until that day comes I'll be over here shooting my spyder happily 


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## skynight

When someone makes the perfect bow they will change it the next year so people will "upgrade".
Bows last longer than one set of strings, just in case you've never tried it.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

skynight said:


> When someone makes the perfect bow they will change it the next year so people will "upgrade".
> Bows last longer than one set of strings, just in case you've never tried it.


Yeah I hear ya. Sometimes I just feel restringing and tuning my old bow is not worth the hassle and want to start fresh again.

I gotta learn to fall in love with the bow I own more and keep it and recycle it.


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## schnellschnell

The upgrade cycle is hard, but it can also bring interesting upgrades.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

schnellschnell said:


> The upgrade cycle is hard, but it can also bring interesting upgrades.


In my case, it’s the curiosity of the cat syndrome that I have.

I also firmly believe taking a few shots with a bow is not enough to appreciate it. I seem to think it’s a 4 month cycle of acclimation to appreciate or reject it.


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