# 25” riser with long limbs vs 27” riser with medium limbs?



## martinfuchs (Jan 18, 2017)

Hi everybody,

I’ve been shooting with a 27” riser and long limbs since I started in archery a year and a half ago. I started working with a coach a while back and have issues with string clearance on my chest. My coach suggested I try a 70” bow which I did by borrowing medium limbs for my 27” riser. No more string clearance issues. 

My question now is if there are any pros and cons based on your experience in terms of using a 27” riser with medium limbs vs a 25” riser with long limbs. If I do switch, the investment will be roughly the same for me. Either stick with my riser and buy new limbs or buy a new riser and stick with my limbs. 

Is one variation over the other more stable or desirable in one way or the other?

I’d appreciate your thoughts. 

Thanks,
Martin 


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

What's your draw length? Also, Olympic or Barebow?


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## martinfuchs (Jan 18, 2017)

It’s 30.5”, Olympic. 


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## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

My draw length is nearly identical, and I am currently using a 27" riser and medium limbs, but I borrowed a 25" riser and long limbs from a friend over the winter break last year.

In short, the difference in performance was minimal, if at all existent. The limbs were not technically identically marked, with 40# Inno Powers on the 27" and I think 38# Wiawis One carbons on the 25", but I did adjust them both to the same OTF poundage. There was no big difference in smoothness that I can recall. Arrow speed was also extremely similar, or at least mi sight mark didn't move noticeably from one bow to the other. The scores didn't change noticeably either from one to the other, ignoring of course the technique changes I was doing.

Outside of pure performance, though, there are a few differences. A 27" riser is usually heavier, and that can be something important to consider. I have relatively weak shoulders, so I'd actually probably benefit from the lighter 25" riser, if I could afford to change bows now. More importantly for me, from a practical perspective, is that 27" risers are rare, so you'd be severely restricting your choices for a riser. And it's a big decision, since once you buy one then you're locked into it, unless you want to buy a new riser and new limbs. That's the problem I'm facing right now, and although I don't think or expect any performance gains from switching to a 25" with long limbs, I'd rather switch if I could for the long term practical benefits.

As a side comment, I do agree that a 72" is too long for a 30.5" draw length, so I would recommend going down to 70". But I don't like the idea of switching bow lengths for chest clearance. In my mind, that is something that is achieved with posture instead. In extreme cases the extra 2" of bow length can probably create a clearance issue, but I would guess that is rare.


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

A 70" setup with 25" riser would most likely be a bit lighter than one with 27" riser. 

There's also the theory that the shorter the limbs are for a given bow length, the faster they spring back. This is due to less mass moving. But i got my reservations on this theory... If it's really the case, then you'd be seeing all top level shooters using the longest possible riser with the shortest possible limbs, which isn't the case.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

The same discussion was made years ago with a 25" riser and medium limbs vs. a 23" riser with long limbs. 
The theories haven't changed as are also as trivial now as they were then.

A 27" riser and long limbs _*might *_benefit a shooter with a DL in excess of 32", IMHO of course. 

Viper1 out.


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## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

waxyjaywalker said:


> A 70" setup with 25" riser would most likely be a bit lighter than one with 27" riser.
> 
> There's also the theory that the shorter the limbs are for a given bow length, the faster they spring back. This is due to less mass moving. But i got my reservations on this theory... If it's really the case, then you'd be seeing all top level shooters using the longest possible riser with the shortest possible limbs, which isn't the case.


Not exactly. Because the same theories also suggest that those shorter limbs stack more. So the idea is that it's a balancing effect. Furthermore, speed is not directly proportional to performance, or they'd also avoid the X10 because it's generally heavier than the ACE. So it's not that simple, even if we assume all such theories are 100% true.



> A 27" riser and long limbs might benefit a shooter with a DL in excess of 32", IMHO of course.


That is basically the point I was trying to make, but in more words. Which is why I tried to conclude it by saying that performance is probably not the biggest concern in this scenario. I'd rather have a 25" riser and long limbs simply because it seems easier to get equipment in those sizes.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Your upper arm working cycle determines the more optimal riser/limb length ratio.

The guys with broad shoulders (I use the measurement between clavicle to clavicle) and short upper arms work more efficiently with shorter limbs and longer risers, ceteris paribus. Guys with narrow shoulders and long upper arms benefit from longer limbs due to a longer working cycle and having to deal with higher overal torque on the draw shoulder.

The nominal length of the shoulder is taken at 25”, upper arm (measured from the socket joint to the tip of the elbow with arms relaxed) at 25” as well, typically produces an AMO drawlength of 28”.

So, comparing the ratios should give you a clear answer. That is not to say any combination is wrong; this method is used to determine the optimal combination for the comfort and endurance of the archer vs the perfomance that can be squeezed out of the setup. The objective of the game is to hit 10, not break the sound barrier while trying to do that.


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

Only upside I see in using a 27"&medium combination is with Formula risers and high draw-weights at 18 meters because of the shorter sight window on Formula bows.


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

From what I'm reading it more or less depends on how it feels to you. I draw 30.5 I more or less have the same issues with mass weight. When I tried medium limbs on my 25 inch riser the 68" bow was fine but I liked the feel of the 70" bow better for Olympic style but 68" better for barebow, no idea why that would be. My 3D traditional bows are 64", slightly heavier draw weight and they are shoot fine. I suspect that the "feel" also depends on the balance and the quality of the limbs. As a perpetual student of the game I'm obsessed enough to make changes and try whatever sounds like a good idea at the time that's because I'm still searching for the perfect setup. Like a beloved hunting bow being 100% the only bow for me I still haven't found that same love for any target bow. The proof is always in the shooting. Feel is everything, whether or not that's between the ears doesn't matter, it's right for you or it's not.
Nick


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

For a 30.5" DL, I would go with a 25" riser and longs for limbs. There is a much larger selection of long limbs than 27" risers.


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## tim.long (Jul 4, 2015)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> The same discussion was made years ago with a 25" riser and medium limbs vs. a 23" riser with long limbs.
> The theories haven't changed as are also as trivial now as they were then.


The sight window can be heavily reduced on the 23". Had a friend who learned that the hard way $$$


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

There are a lot more Medium limbs on the used market. Which could justify the cost of the 27" riser. Seeing as you already have one, just stick with it. Because buying a premium 25" riser is pointless when all 27" risers are top choices.


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