# bare shaft vs. fletched (new question)



## p&yslayer (Apr 9, 2010)

Most Definately


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I would ask what the purpose was, tuning out to 20 yards?

Here's the thing, a bare shaft weighs less than the fletched arrow, so there will be some verticle impact difference, probably around 1". To simulate, apply the same weight of electrical tape to the area where the fletchings will go.

Most bare shaft tune at 6 to 8 feet. Once a bullet hole is achieved the switch is made to the fletched arrow. Initially, what you are looking for is the arrow coming out of the bow cleanly. Bullet hole with bare shaft and ragged hole with fletched, you have contact somewhere, possibly center shot error (rest or nocking point) or timing of the rest (drop aways) or timing/rotation of the cams.


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## knapper2 (Dec 29, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> I would ask what the purpose was, tuning out to 20 yards?
> 
> Here's the thing, a bare shaft weighs less than the fletched arrow, so there will be some verticle impact difference, probably around 1". To simulate, apply the same weight of electrical tape to the area where the fletchings will go.
> 
> Most bare shaft tune at 6 to 8 feet. Once a bullet hole is achieved the switch is made to the fletched arrow. Initially, what you are looking for is the arrow coming out of the bow cleanly. Bullet hole with bare shaft and ragged hole with fletched, you have contact somewhere, possibly center shot error (rest or nocking point) or timing of the rest (drop aways) or timing/rotation of the cams.


I assumed he was not talking about paper tuning, but you know what happens when you assume. :wink:
I will bareshaft tune (not paper) out to 40 yds, but I start at about 10 or 15 yards to make sure the bare shaft is somewhere in the ballpark of my fletched arrows. If somewhat close, I'll back up to 20 and start tuning there. Once they are grouping well with the fletched arrows 
I'll shoot from 30 and then 40 for the finer tuning.


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## jim46ok (Oct 9, 2008)

*Right on.*



knapper2 said:


> I assumed he was not talking about paper tuning, but you know what happens when you assume. :wink:
> I will bareshaft tune (not paper) out to 40 yds, but I start at about 10 or 15 yards to make sure the bare shaft is somewhere in the ballpark of my fletched arrows. If somewhat close, I'll back up to 20 and start tuning there. Once they are grouping well with the fletched arrows
> I'll shoot from 30 and then 40 for the finer tuning.



To use bare shaft tuning at closer distances to confirm what you see thru paper doesn't show much faith in the paper tune method. Bare shaft tuning at greater distances, up to 40 or so yards will indeed allow you to fine tune for correct arrow flight. Also, along with adding tape to bring the weight the same, check the CG to make sure the bare shaft and it's fletched kin are, except for the fletch itself, the "same" arrow.....works for us..


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm knocking the long distance bare shaft tuning method, but I have never seen where bare shaft tuning was a benefit when you will be shooting fletched arrows and should tune for them. Probably the best tuned bow I ever used was tuned through French tuning. Long process, but fruitful.

I've spoke with the good ole boys at NAP. Those guys do do their home work. Bare shaft tuning (taped for fletching weight) out 60 yards!


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> I've spoke with the good ole boys at NAP. Those guys do do their home work. Bare shaft tuning (taped for fletching weight) out 60 yards!


That would be an achievement!

Think of it this way. The arrow needs to leave the bow without up/down/right/left bias. The farther the arrow travels before it starts to spin, the farther you need to bare shaft tune, to maintain the same POI for bare/fletched shafts.

Smaller vanes with minimum offset, will require more tuning effort, and better shooter form, than a 4" vane with lots of helical offset.

Some rests will require more than others, faster arrows are more demanding than slower arrows, broadheads need more effort than mechanicals or field points.

Shooting a prong rest, and a caliper release, and with arrows moving 275-300fps, I usually find that anything past 15-20yds is redundant effort. No gain for the pain. Shooting arrows at less than 250fps, anything past 10ft is not necessary. It depends.


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## dxtsealey (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for the replys. I shoot about 280 fps and my arrows are a helical with 2" fusions. My bare shaft hits about 2 feet high and a foot to the right of where my fletched arrows hit at 20 yards. I hope to be able to play and adjust more today. I will let you know the results.


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## Roskoes (Jun 17, 2007)

That's quite a bit off. I would take a look at your arrow rest.


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## slickhedshooter (Nov 13, 2009)

The up/down is an issue of nock point. Sounds like you need to raise your nock point. As far as the arrows hitting to the right, you need to move your rest left in small increments (assuming you're a right handed shooter). If that doesn't work (which is the situation I'm in at the moment) it's probably an issue of either fletching contact or incorrect spine. What kind of bow are you shooting?


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## bigcountry11 (May 25, 2007)

I almost never bare shaft past 30 yards. Any flaw in your form will result in broken arrow. And besides that, if your a hunter, its just not needed. 

I know if you can get a bare shafted arrow (with tape to match fletch weight) to hit with fletched arrow out to 30 yards, then BH tuning will be a piece of cake out to 60 yards. 

Papertuning is not sensitive enough. BH or baresheft tuning beats it hands down. I believe papertuning was invented for archery shops who don't want to shoot 40 yards to tune a bow.

But bareshaft will tell you lies if you have bow troubles like fletch contact or leaning cams.


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## dxtsealey (Jul 27, 2009)

Ok, worked out the the up/down part of the equation. My bareshafts now hit 11" to the right of the fletched. Shoot a Z7 at 60#'s and 27" draw. The bareshafts are pointed nock to the left, fletched are very slightly to left. Should I still mess with the rest?


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## slickhedshooter (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm having the exact same problem with my Z7. Just noticed last night after it was too late to take it to the shop and get it in the bow press that my idler wheel is straight in relation to the back of the limb (which is why I didn't see this before) but the back end of the limb has a slight twist to it. I'm gonna do some yoke twisting to straighten it up and let you know if it fixes the problem.


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## bigcountry11 (May 25, 2007)

dxtsealey said:


> Ok, worked out the the up/down part of the equation. My bareshafts now hit 11" to the right of the fletched. Shoot a Z7 at 60#'s and 27" draw. The bareshafts are pointed nock to the left, fletched are very slightly to left. Should I still mess with the rest?


You can "chase the bareshafts with the rest. Sometimes this works, sometimes not. Also could be slight form issues. 

If you cams are dead straight at rest and full draw, (no cam lean) then slightly adjust the rest towards the riser (RH shooter). If you have to move more than 1/8" or so, try a stiffer spine arrow. Then move to BH tune to verify. If you then get an opposite reaction (BH's hitting to the left of the field points, you got fletch contact or cam lean issue. 


What spine shaft do you shoot?


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## hoytjw (Jun 15, 2010)

i can get my bare shafts to hit whith my field points out to 40 yards


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## dxtsealey (Jul 27, 2009)

I shoot the maxima 3-d selects which have a static spine of .404 which ot2 says is a little on the stiff side.


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## jim46ok (Oct 9, 2008)

*Walk back...or French*

Once you have the bare shaft hitting the same height as a fletched, then walk back or french tune to zero in your rest. As said, you can chase the arrow with your rest all day. Once you get the rest set correctly, any left-right impact will point to spine..good luck.. long process, but worth it.


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