# Carbon Express X-Buster



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Out of curiosity, what's your average indoor fita (60 arrow) score, and why do you feel that the X-busters will give you an advantage?


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

I'm averaging 260 on a blue face. The x busters would be better line cutters, since they are a third bigger than my VAP's


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## Jim18655 (Sep 17, 2011)

700 spine X buster = .327 diameter 
VAP 600 =.214
.327-.214=.113 difference in diameter
.113/2= .056 difference toward the center of the target. That's less than 1/16" difference which is about the width of the lines on the target. You'd be better off spending the money on a few lessons.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

With respect, I wasn't posing this question to have my motivation questioned. I am looking for information on the x busters and I haven't had any luck finding the info I'm needing anywhere else on the web.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

One thing you'll find out here pretty quickly is that there is a LOT of experience in this forum. So I would encourage you to take it all in and consider it. 

Jim is correct. There has been no definitive proof that line cutters are any more competitive indoors than smaller diameter arrows. In fact, there are enough indoor world records, and world championships, and world cup wins with ultra-skinny "outdoor" arrows that the evidence would probably prove otherwise, if it were biased at all. 

An arrow that's a bit stiff will actually group best at 18 meters. 

I'm not trying to talk you out of buying X-busters. They are a good arrow. But don't be surprised when you do get them, if you find that your scoring average doesn't increase at all. In fact, if you can't get good clearance with them (a big problem with large diameter parallel all-carbon arrows and finger shooters), you may actually score worse. 

I shot both skinny and fat arrows indoors on that NFAA blue/white face, and I've averaged 297 in league with skinnies, and 297 with fatties in several years of shooting. My best NFAA Nationals indoor score, for years, was shot with Navigators - as small or smaller than your VAP's - a 299 with 39X's. It took me about 5 years to beat that in competition with any arrow I shot.

Work on your form and your mental game. If you need to spend money, spend it on lessons. I know you didn't ask for it, but that's my .02. And that's from a guy who shoots 280+ on that face - barebow.


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## Jim18655 (Sep 17, 2011)

You said they would be better line cutters because they are 1/3 bigger than what you shoot now. I was only pointing out that they aren't as big of an advantage as you thought they would be. Learn to hit the center of the target and you don't have to worry about line cutters.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

First off, I am sorry if that response came off as abrasive; that was not my intent. I have seen my score jump with hunting arrows. I am certain that I will buy new arrows for the indoor season, and the x busters caught my eye, and that's why I wanted more info on them. 

Oh, and just so y'all know...I do take lessons.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

I have a set of X-Buster 700 spine arrows that my son shot for one year. 

Pros -

-The ONLY weak spined larger diameter arrow out there in Carbon
-You can get the tips up to 120 grain
-Works best with feathers

Cons -
-Pin nock adapters are horrid. You breathe on it wrong, it bends. Plan on buying LOTS of extras.
-You have to use the Bulldog collars for support on the back end.
-Arrow walls are weak, weaker than 2312 Aluminum walled arrows. Again, you breathe on them wrong, they break.
-Runout is huge. To get a good dozen arrows, I had to root through 3 different dozens
-700 and 600 spine X-Busters are really a hair under 21/64" 

Do they perform? Yes. My son got his first 300 3-Spot with the X-Buster 700's. 

Will I ever buy them again? No. I can make Easton 2112's perform nearly equally, for far cheaper, and the components to build, fix, and replace them are far easier to get.

With regards to skinny vs. larger arrows: Directly comparing X10 650's with the X-Buster 700's and Easton 2312's using scores, my 12 year old son (shooting outer 10) has never gotten past a 297 20x game on a 3 spot using X10's. He's had a 300 21x (Easton 2312) and 300 22x (X-Buster's) with the fatter arrows on a 3 spot. 

On the NFAA Blue face: X10's gave Spencer a 300 51x. He's done a 300 58x (X-Busters) and a 300 56x (Easton 2312)'s.

If the arrows are spined correctly, you will theoretically gain in some marginal shots. The biggest issue is spine - you will have one heck of a time getting your arrows to tune properly when you're using fat arrows. This includes both clearance and flight.

My personal recommendation is to stick with the skinnier arrows. Until you're going in the 280's in both the 10 ring and NFAA Blue face arena, you really need to tweak areas other than your arrows. 

-Steve


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I had a set and though they were horrid. The shafts were ok but the points bend really fast and almost half of the pins were crooked out of the bag. Won't touch again.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

I've shot X busters a year ago for indoors off of a black widow 64" recurve....took that setup to Louisville and placed 6th overall shooting a 264,266...was almost laughed out of the building..no rest,plunger..but had fun..


Back to the XBusters they are a good arrow..use an Easton Gnock they are tough and the adaptors are easy to find.


Dewayne Martin


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Runout is huge. To get a good dozen arrows, I had to root through 3 different dozens


Good thing you can cut them in half and get 2 dozen for the price of 1.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Good thing you can cut them in half and get 2 dozen for the price of 1.


Not for arrows at least 28" long...

Two of us (LuckyCharlie and I) had a heck of a time finding arrows that had low runout and at a decent length. 

Like I said, I can get far better arrows out of 2112's and find components pretty much anywhere. 

Even Lancaster messed up sending the wrong components for the X-Busters.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

vabowdog said:


> I've shot X busters a year ago for indoors off of a black widow 64" recurve....took that setup to Louisville and placed 6th overall shooting a 264,266...was almost laughed out of the building..no rest,plunger..but had fun..
> 
> 
> Back to the XBusters they are a good arrow..use an Easton Gnock they are tough and the adaptors are easy to find.
> ...


Really? You were able to find .284 components for the X-Buster 700 and 600 spine? All Carbon Express sells for the .284 inner diameter arrows are the pin nock adapters. For the 500, 400, and 350's, they all use .318 diameter adapters, and those are easily available in pin and G-Nock variants.


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## rookcaca (Oct 10, 2002)

I use them, I have shot them for over a year indoors, and have not had any quality issues with them that I am aware of.


Link to my previous thread.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1992215


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

Beastmaster said:


> Really? You were able to find .284 components for the X-Buster 700 and 600 spine? All Carbon Express sells for the .284 inner diameter arrows are the pin nock adapters. For the 500, 400, and 350's, they all use .318 diameter adapters, and those are easily available in pin and G-Nock variants.




Yes, call Shrewd Co. In Va... They make all the nock adaptors for most arrows....ask for Lane.


Dewayne


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Or, just find the correct Beiter insert nock, and use it.


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## luckycharlie (Nov 29, 2010)

Quality wise, I was disapointed with the Xbusters 700. The variation between arrows is simply amazing. I basically had to ship arrows back and forth to Lancaster 4 times before I received 12 acceptable arrows. By "acceptable", I mean they still did not meet published straightness specs, but they were withing a range for spine that matched others in the dozen.

I ended up creating 2 groups of arrows. 6 that were somewhat close in spine, about .010 - .015 total runout range, and 6 "Practice Only" that were well outside of that range in both directions on the dial.

For a "quality" reference.

X7 arrows - All in the dozen typically are straighter than .002, and spine within a total runout of .005 max. 

x10 arrows - All in the dozen typically straighter than .001, and spine withing a total runout of .002 - .003 max.


With all this said. My sons indoor personal best with Xbusters 700 was 296 / 15x, personal best with X-7 1914 was 297 17x. In the long run there is not really a big difference, but confidence in your equipment can help build scores.

If it was my dollars being spent, I think an X7 aluminum would be a better choice. I like to get the screw in tips, which allows for more tuning choices.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

In regards to runout. I was reading elsewhere that if you cut the arrow, to trim from both ends the same amount. Meaning to cut half the amount needed from each end. Apparently that brings the straightness back into the tolerance that CX claims. This would work for me, since I would be cutting it down to 29 anyway.


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## luckycharlie (Nov 29, 2010)

Straightness would not worry me as much as the total tolerance of the arrow spines. These arrows simply are all over the place. The easton X7, is a relative bargain for there quality. 

You ask for input, and you received people's experience.

Bottom line, your money, spend it how ever you would like.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

I've considered the X7, but I just prefer carbon arrows. I don't have a real reason to prefer them over aluminum, it's just one of my quirks


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

We all have quirky preferences. When they start to cost me points, I do my best to overcome them.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

I've personally had no issues but to be honest I've never spun them...


As far as X7 it's hard to beat an aluminum arrow for indoors...I seen Rio shooting them just last year.


Dewayne


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## Dave_Gilbert (Aug 28, 2012)

My daughter Michelle, shot a 590/600 and broke the Junior Recurve World Record by 2 points using these arrows (700 spine). They were quite stiff but the large feather fetching stabilized the arrow nicely. We have not experienced any of the problems others have cited. They work very well.

For years Michelle shot her outdoor setup with great success indoors. It's just a whole bunch easier to have one setup. Also, an x10 or Nano Pro Xtreme will often be more forgiving than a fat parallel shaft. In the end, forgiveness can be far more important for an intermediate archer.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Dave, I was there when she did that. It was amazing to see. 

I can't complain about my X-busters, since I shot a PB 286/300 on the blue/white NFAA face BAREBOW with them during one of the TFAA SYWAT events, then went on to break the TFAA state indoor Traditional record by 10 points this past March. 

If straightness were an issue, I don't think a 286 from a barebow rig could ever happen.


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## traditionalrj (Jun 8, 2011)

That record gonna stand awhile john? A few of us trad guys are hitting 20 ' s regularly in practice


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

If all you're shooting are 20's, then I'm not worried. ha, ha.  

I'm sure that's a typo.

And who knows how long that record will hold. I'm proud of how I shot. I accomplished my goal, which was to average 280 over the two days. If I did that, I would be happy. I did it, and I was happy. I made myself a steak dinner and had a great beer along with it.

If someone breaks it, I'll be thrilled for them, and I hope they celebrate too. Then I'll dust off the NFAA indoor rig and try to break their record.

The old saying "records were made to be broken" is very true. I've held my share and also seen them broken. They do serve a purpose.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

With the scores being shot today 280s won't stand too long either...it seems like there's several 290+ being shot even at the highest level of competition.


Dewayne


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## traditionalrj (Jun 8, 2011)

That's what I'm talking about!! Everyone is upping the game!! 


I for one can shoot in the 280's off and on during practice...


Which means 260's in a shoot because I get bored out of my mind before the first half is even over haha


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

I have to say that since posting this, I have finally gotten them to tune and shoot so well, that I had to move to a 3spot because I kept breaking nocks and pins.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yup, that 12" stabilizer is worth about 10-15 points on the NFAA indoor round when you look at the winning scores from two or three years ago vs. the scores from this year. It's not really fair to compare records shot this year with those from the past. I think they should have an asterisk next to them.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Dewayne, you sure have a knack for one-upping folks. Seems like it's a priority for you.

Allow me reiterate for you...



> And who knows how long that record will hold. *I'm proud of how I shot. I accomplished my goal*, which was to average 280 over the two days. If I did that, I would be happy. I did it, and I was happy. I made myself a steak dinner and had a great beer along with it.
> 
> *If someone breaks it, I'll be thrilled for them*, and I hope they celebrate too. Then I'll dust off the NFAA indoor rig and try to break their record.
> 
> The old saying "records were made to be broken" is very true. I've held my share and also seen them broken. They do serve a purpose.


In other words, I really couldn't care less what anyone else shoots, as I'm focused on my own personal goals.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Not to derail this thread, or perhaps my statement may put it back on track....

It seems that the most important thing is to shoot a well tuned arrow regardless of make or shaft diameter. I am shooting personal barebow bests right now with inexpensive GT ultralite entradas. If it aint broken dont fix it.


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## MJAnderson68 (Nov 15, 2013)

I've been thinking of getting some fat arrows for indoor season as well. It seems like there are some mixed messages from many people on this board --- the discussions usually go "you don't need them, focus on what you have, but I use them and I think it gets me a few extra points".


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

Ya know, as much as I like my xbusters I wish I'd've saved my money. They can get you a couple extra points, but unless you're consistently above 270/280 I don't think it's worth it.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Urbandeer, I think you're on the right track. An arrow's ability to group is particularly important indoors, as the distance from the 10 ring to the 7 ring (or 5 to the 3 for NFAA) just isn't that far at all.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

John, I read your post...I have no priority. Just simply stating the facts.


Dewayne


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Is there anybody making a point other than a standard parabolic point for the 600 and 700 spine X-Buster? I like the elongated points a la Rod Menzer but it is only available with a 500 or stiffer spine.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

http://competitionarcheryproducts.com/store/3d-nockbuster-original/

The same points that work for the CXL should also fit the XBusters, but don't quote me on that.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

From what I've seen, Comptetion Points does not accommodate anything less than a 500 spine.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

Well then, that settles it.

If you figure it out, I'd like to know. The only major complaint I have about the xbusters (aside from the terrible runout) are those darn points.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I use the X-buster points that accept the screw in weights. I can change my point weight from 120 to 210 grains just by adding or removing weights from the nock end of the arrow. A very useful feature.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

I've only ever used them with inserts and screw in points which are a real pain always coming loose...except TopHat.


Dewayne


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

There is a reason to like the elongated pin points. It allows clicker shooters to see movement on the point sooner than the standard parabolic point.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Midway, I wouldn't consider that a positive.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

Why not?


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

I don't know what John's objections are. I can tell you that I look my arrow into the clicker. For me, when the clicker starts to move, I start shifting my focus to the target. I've found that the extra travel an elongated point affords, allows a little more freedom to keep the back half of my shot moving. 

Outdoor parabolic points allow for some clicker travel and I prefer this length. Indoor chisel points allow the least amount of travel. Indoor parabolic points are all a little different. Easton has a ridged indoor point which is horrible for clicker shooters, especially those using an extended clicker. 

I shot Easton nibb points with 2212 aluminum shafts at Vegas last year and got a false bump as the clicker wire passed over one of the ridges. This was entirely my fault as it had happened prior and I incorrectly dismissed it as unlikely to happen again. 
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/easton-nibb-points-2219.html

So there are a couple of reasons to like an elongated point, whether it is a parabolic point or a pin point.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Midway, do what works for you. My observations shouldn't change your preferences, only mine.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Oh, I wasn't being argumentative, only trying to let Last Bastion know why I was looking for an elongated point.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

BTW, I am always willing to experiment with my equipment and form. I have a pretty vigorous vetting process and have considered many things posited on AT and taken some of it to heart. My wife calls me stubborn, but there is no stubborn in me when it comes to ferreting out improved performance and a few extra points.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

That makes sense. Come to think of it, I think I do the same thing, except I'm not looking for when the clicker starts to move, but when it passes over the carbon to the point.

It took me forever to get used to how the CX points are shaped, because something about the shape of them makes them less visible than my victory points.

The reason I'd like a different point than CX offers is that I've seen more problems with bounce-outs with them over other points that are more elongated.

John, just out of curiosity, why do you prefer the points that you do?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I don't want to see clicker movement in my peripheral vision.


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