# London ASA Proam Open B Shooters, LOOOK



## jjw3 (Mar 20, 2006)

Well fellows, if your planning on shooting Open B Class, you'll prob be shooting all in one day. I registered early this morning and was number 75 when I asked Mike. I honestly didnt think it would be that bad, I was REALLY close just doing like always and register on thurs before or friday morning of shoot. Maybe its no big deal to shoot all in one day to some, just giving u a heads up. Im tickled I did today and get 2 days.:smile:


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

jjw3 said:


> Well fellows, if your planning on shooting Open B Class, you'll prob be shooting all in one day. I registered early this morning and was number 75 when I asked Mike. I honestly didnt think it would be that bad, I was REALLY close just doing like always and register on thurs before or friday morning of shoot. Maybe its no big deal to shoot all in one day to some, just giving u a heads up. Im tickled I did today and get 2 days.:smile:


That's going to be their fault....I posted the time thing a couple weeks back....so its on them for not stepping up soon enough


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## wsbark01 (Feb 26, 2009)

I must have been one of the first cause I am on F 2 and shoot both days!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Will see.....im not interested in shooting all one day. 

I will call to verify tomorrow. Not sure why 5 on stake isnt doable?



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## Tater1985 (Apr 28, 2008)

I registered a while back, but I'm shooting 20/20. Are you saying that those who register late may have to do them all in 1 day?


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## gobblemg (Jun 13, 2006)

Why the change? Open B has always shot both days.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Who knows 

Just called....shooting both days

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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

it has to do with numbers and logistics management..... i do believe


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

OPEN B has offically rolled over to shooting it all on saturday..........k45 has but just a handful slots left before that happens as well.... just and FYI


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> it has to do with numbers and logistics management..... i do believe


Numbers? Why would Open B be held to 4 person on a stake (80 total) and other classes not?

Hell I have shot 6 at a stake in K45.

Screw it, Im going Open Pro


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Garceau said:


> Numbers? Why would Open B be held to 4 person on a stake (80 total) and other classes not?
> 
> Hell I have shot 6 at a stake in K45.
> 
> Screw it, Im going Open Pro


Ok, Kevin....I'll make sure to get you marked for open pro.....  Let me call the ladies and have them change your claification and payment .... Being you just stated openly your going Pro....this give it legal tender  LOL


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Garceau said:


> Numbers? Why would Open B be held to 4 person on a stake (80 total) and other classes not?
> 
> Hell I have shot 6 at a stake in K45.
> 
> Screw it, Im going Open Pro


It's acutally comes into play because of the other 3 classes that are shooting on the same ranges as well. between e / f / k .


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> Ok, Kevin....I'll make sure to get you marked for open pro.....  Let me call the ladies and have them change your claification and payment .... Being you just stated openly your going Pro....this give it legal tender  LOL


I didnt say when....

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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Garceau said:


> I didnt say when....
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


i took the liberty of claiming that for you  You can say thank you....


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

And i can assume you took the liberty of paying the pro fee and entry?



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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Naw....You work for a strong entity ...im sure they can pull some funds out for ya.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> Naw....You work for a strong entity ...im sure they can pull some funds out for ya.


I do not believe that would help drive bow sales.......

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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

This all in one day stuff is getting a little out of hand if you ask me.........and I think I heard someone.


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

This is my first ASA I preregistered for open B my card said 2 days 20 each day. So what everyone is saying is that after 80 people sign up for this class we have to shoot all 40 in one day? It really doesn't matter to me just trying to plan my drinking schedule:cheers:


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I think it has to do with logistics London has outgrown the number of shooters that show up and there are not any other places to set up a extra range. If the numbers show up that I think will Mike may need to think about moving the London site ?


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

I think it is unfair for anybody to shoot it in one day. The way I see it. ASA is all about money. But what I don't understand is if they kept everybody there both days it would bring more money to them and the vender. The towns would make more from hotels and eating out.


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

I don't think you know how big the area is where the London shoot is. There is more room down the power line in both directions. They have Feltner 4-H camp that joins the site.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

If you sign up as a life time asa member you get first choice of times,bonas for being life timer


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Let's say there are 140 shooters in a class like there was in K45 in Alabama.
- if everyone shot at the same on the same course there would be 7 to a stake. Obviously a bad idea. Put 6 on every target and things will get VERY slow. Which mean other archers scheduled to use the ranges will be very late starting.
.......... so for everyone to shoot at the same time there would have to be *2* dedicated courses for just K45
.......... the same applies to Open B, Hunter and any other over flowing classes
.......... It is almost certain that K45 and Open B will have well beyond 80. 
.......... I think the ASA handled the K45 over flow VERY well in Ala. There was only about a 30 minute delay in the start as half the shooters moved to a modified Sims range.

I am certain the ASA will fine tune "scheduling" as they gather attendance information this year. For example, I would not be surprised if they have the targets and 1, 2 or even 3 additional 45 yard ranges ready in Alabama next year. Another possibility is re-arrangement of which classes shoot the same course, i.e. 

Look at the attendance numbers from last year and try and figure out how YOU would accommodate large numbers in a single class........ Don't forget that you have to take into account that some courses are "known" distances and that some classes shoot half known (second day) and half unknown (first day). Each class has to shoot the same courses. Also don't forget day light savings time change in the spring.........If you were in Alabama on Sunday morning you know what I'm talking about!

After looking at it for a while the answer is NOT simple. With continued growth the best answer may include shuffling how classes are paired to courses and tweaking the distances of some classes. As it is now Semi-Pro is a 50 yard class that shoots the ranges with 45 yard max classes.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> Let's say there are 140 shooters in a class like there was in K45 in Alabama.
> - if everyone shot at the same on the same course there would be 7 to a stake. Obviously a bad idea. Put 6 on every target and things will get VERY slow. Which mean other archers scheduled to use the ranges will be very late starting.
> .......... so for everyone to shoot at the same time there would have to be *2* dedicated courses for just K45
> .......... the same applies to Open B, Hunter and any other over flowing classes
> ...


I agree with everything you say! The semis shooting on a 45 yard range bad. The semi guys should be shooting AB range with the Pros, it all can be fixed just takes time and sweat


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

cenochs said:


> I agree with everything you say! The semis shooting on a 45 yard range bad. The semi guys should be shooting AB range with the Pros, it all can be fixed just takes *time and sweat*


I'm fairly certain it will take more than that. I have not figured it out but to have EVERYONE finished by 11:30 am on Sunday AND have everyone only shoot a single round on Saturday will require a lot more than a "basic" fix that only cost time and sweat. Remember, there are other classes that shoot both rounds on Saturday other than Open B and K45. In the case of Open B you also have to take into account that it is half unknown.

I think having Bow Novice and Open C shooting both rounds on the same day may be attractive to local shooters just wanting to try it out without the expense of a two day event.

Open A and Semi-Pro alone could take up two whole courses.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I bet the 8 am Open B guys are NOT off the course in time for K45 to start at 11 am on Saturday. If we can't walk onto the range until all of them are the range I bet we don't start much before noon.......... I'm doubling up on my stash of Twinkies and Mountain Dews (the choice power snack of the worlds steadiest archers).


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> I bet the 8 am Open B guys are NOT off the course in time for K45 to start at 11 am on Saturday. If we can't walk onto the range until all of them are the range I bet we don't start much before noon.......... I'm doubling up on my stash of Twinkies and Mountain Dews (the choice power snack of the worlds steadiest archers).


Shoot K50 and you won't have double up on your stash! Those only 20 or so of us)


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

My personal opinion I think everyone should shoot 30 Saturday becuase that is all we have to do Saturday and shoot 10 on Sunday so we can head home early or stay and watch the shootdown!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

cenochs said:


> Shoot K50 and you won't have double up on your stash! Those only 20 or so of us)


I may be doing that soon enough. I like donating to charitable causes (most archers) and making people feel good about themselves!

By the way, there were 34 registered in K50 at London last year. Will it be more this year? I'm hoping K50 hits 40.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> I may be doing that soon enough. I like donating to charitable causes (most archers) and making people feel good about themselves!
> 
> By the way, there were 34 registered in K50 at London last year. Will it be more this year? I'm hoping K50 hits 40.


I hope more than 40 so it looks good when I finish 15th! I would like to see just one known class K50 put 45 and 50 together have a class around 150 average and it would pay out 30 spots and have 2 ranges!!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

cenochs said:


> I hope more than 40 so it looks good when I finish 15th! I would like to see just one known class K50 put 45 and 50 together have a class around 150 average and it would pay out 30 spots and have 2 ranges!!


You can't just merge classes and assume the numbers will be the total of the parts. It's not how it works. A lot of archers from k45 would drop out because they would be even further behind. If the entry fee is what it is for K50 then even more drop out. A few K50 guys would also drop out after they go from being 15th in a "Semi-Pro" class to 20th (or worse) in an "amateur" class.......it would happen.

K50 should grow over time. A large number of people just aren't going to suddenly pay a high entry fee to shoot in a class with archers that are far ahead of them. As K50 accumulates archers of modest skill but with great ambition more of us archers with extraordinarily modest skills will sign on because we will blend in with the "pack" and will not stand out as being 100 points behind the next guy. I'm hoping when or if I shoot K50 there will be enough archers shooting that though I may be 100 points behind the podium guys my name will blend with a long list of names!!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> You can't just merge classes and assume the numbers will be the total of the parts. It's not how it works. A lot of archers from k45 would drop out because they would be even further behind. If the entry fee is what it is for K50 then even more drop out. A few K50 guys would also drop out after they go from being 15th in a "Semi-Pro" class to 20th (or worse) in an "amateur" class.......it would happen.
> 
> K50 should grow over time. A large number of people just aren't going to suddenly pay a high entry fee to shoot in a class with archers that are far ahead of them. As K50 accumulates archers of modest skill but with great ambition more of us archers with extraordinarily modest skills will sign on because we will blend in with the "pack" and will not stand out as being 100 points behind the next guy. I'm hoping when or if I shoot K50 there will be enough archers shooting that though I may be 100 points behind the podium guys my name will blend with a long list of names!!


Gotcha ! You think lowering entry fee of K50 would attract more? Maybe $100?


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

"A large number of people just aren't going to suddenly pay a high entry fee to shoot in a class with archers that are far ahead of them." - Kstigall

I'm going to shoot k50 next year after only shooting k45 for a season. Paying to compete against better archers is worth the time spent learning, especially if you don't do all 7 shoots, and who knows? Maybe after competing against them and learning from the challenge for a bit you might just win.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I only shot K45 for a year myself but I don't advise anyone who asks to move up (any class) until they have to.

The entry fee problem is that it probably doesn't grow the class much until its comparable in price to say Open A..... I don't think $25 does anything and more than that and its not anywhere near par with Semi. 

All in all, I would vote against lowering the entry if I had the chance despite the fact that I find it painful at the moment...I think it needs to be there to support long term growth.... with hopes of eventually drawing manufacturer contingency.

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Oops


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

So I'm gonna say yes I'm shooting 40 in one day :dontknow:


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## gaberichter (Aug 31, 2008)

I preregistered once I saw it on the Asa site. I moved out of C so I wouldn't have to shoot all 40 in one day. The curse is following me.


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## Hallsway (Jan 16, 2009)

My first ASA was in Metropolis last year. I had to shoot all 40 in 109 degree heat. I wasn't a fan. 1st impression of ASA that day wasn't a good one. But I stuck with it, and shooting a class now that goes both days. Im liking ASA more now. Find the right class for you and you will enjoy the ASA. Different Strokes for different folks.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Hallsway said:


> My first ASA was in Metropolis last year. I had to shoot all 40 in 109 degree heat. I wasn't a fan. 1st impression of ASA that day wasn't a good one. But I stuck with it, and shooting a class now that goes both days. Im liking ASA more now. Find the right class for you and you will enjoy the ASA. Different Strokes for different folks.


No that should not be the way it is. No matter what class you pay an entry fee so no class should be force to shoot 40 in one day let see mike make pros shoot it all in one day


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## wsbark01 (Feb 26, 2009)

bsharkey said:


> So I'm gonna say yes I'm shooting 40 in one day :dontknow:


If you got your shooter card look on it and it will tell you.

Mine says target F2 at 11am Saturday.
Target K2 8am Sunday.


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## wrevans (Dec 13, 2012)

I don't think they could add a course for Open B or K45 because it would be an issue having shooters in one class not shooting the same 40 targets. I think it would be good to give the option to shoot the first 20 on Friday rather than 40 on Saturday.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

wrevans said:


> I don't think they could add a course for Open B or K45 because it would be an issue having shooters in one class not shooting the same 40 targets. I think it would be good to give the option to shoot the first 20 on Friday rather than 40 on Saturday.


They have an option....sign up......or take a roll of the dice and see what will be your ooutcome......sorry if it sounds in your face sounding.....but its just how it is......it has been adv for a month...here and on their own site.....so no excuses


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

wsbark01 said:


> If you got your shooter card look on it and it will tell you.
> 
> Mine says target F2 at 11am Saturday.
> Target K2 8am Sunday.


it is saying 2 days but if it gets over 80 shooters like mentioned does that change to one day?
thats what i am trying to find out?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

STRICNINE said:


> "A large number of people just aren't going to suddenly pay a high entry fee to shoot in a class with archers that are far ahead of them." - Kstigall
> 
> I'm going to shoot k50 next year after only shooting k45 for a season. Paying to compete against better archers is worth the time spent learning, especially if you don't do all 7 shoots, and who knows? Maybe after competing against them and learning from the challenge for a bit you might just win.


I totally agree IF you are at the point in your skill and competition development that you benefit from being exposed to the higher level of competition and skill. 



tmorelli said:


> Oops





treeman65 said:


> No that should not be the way it is. No matter what class you pay an entry fee so no class should be force to shoot 40 in one day let see mike make pros shoot it all in one day


I spent a little time looking at what it would takes to NOT have a single class shooting all in one day. I don't have the answer but it is not a simple basic solution.



wrevans said:


> I don't think they could add a course for Open B or K45 because it would be an issue having shooters in one class not shooting the same 40 targets. I think it would be good to give the option to shoot the first 20 on Friday rather than 40 on Saturday.


It is a given that all archers in a class shoot the same ranges. A range would not really be "added". When we say "add" a range what we mean is that two ranges would be exclusive to a single class, i.e. K45 would fill two complete ranges rather than sharing ranges with Open B, Senior Open, Women Open A and Limited as it does now. 



bhtr3d said:


> They have an option....sign up......or take a roll of the dice and see what will be your ooutcome......sorry if it sounds in your face sounding.....but its just how it is......it has been adv for a month...here and on their own site.....so no excuses


Exactly!!



bsharkey said:


> it is saying 2 days but if it gets over 80 shooters like mentioned does that change to one day?
> thats what i am trying to find out?


No, if your card says you shoot over 2 days then that is what you will do. The 81st and higher registering archers will shoot both ranges the same day.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> Oops


"Oops"? Did you forget to set your sight or did you let the umbie bump the shooter? :becky: A true "elitist" knows how to handle his umbie!!!


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

Kstigall said:


> No, if your card says you shoot over 2 days then that is what you will do. The 81st and higher registering archers will shoot both ranges the same day.


got it thanks


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> "Oops"? Did you forget to set your sight or did you let the umbie bump the shooter? :becky: A true "elitist" knows how to handle his umbie!!!


No, I'm an elitist with fat fingers... I was trying to edit my post and I quoted it instead...Even as an elitist, I'm not in the business of quoting myself.

Perhaps I should quote myself though. It's like: 

"THE" Tony Morelli said..... :drummer: [insert whitty yet exceptionally valuable quote here] and then just stands back and waits for you to :clap:


***and that mis-setting of sights thing isn't funny. Take it back. Don't put that hillbilly voodoo on me.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> No, I'm an elitist with fat fingers... I was trying to edit my post and I quoted it instead...Even as an elitist, I'm not in the business of quoting myself.
> 
> Perhaps I should quote myself though. It's like:
> 
> ...


:hail: TMo!

I regret mentioning what I mentioned!


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## wrevans (Dec 13, 2012)

bhtr3d said:


> They have an option....sign up......or take a roll of the dice and see what will be your ooutcome......sorry if it sounds in your face sounding.....but its just how it is......it has been adv for a month...here and on their own site.....so no excuses


I agree 100%....just saying that each class has to shoot the same 40 targets. I'm in the first 80 so I'm ready to go, but I do think it would be worthwhile to look at a Friday-Saturday for those in the later 80. The ultimate solution is to probably to do what KStigall is suggesting, and separate the K45 and Open B since the numbers are currently there to support it.


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## Bowtech11 (Mar 21, 2006)

I guess IMO that it could be good or bad. shooting all 40 in one day is rough and could be some will last better than others. Some shooting all 40 on Saturday and some shooting both days is IMO is not the same, but mind you the cores will be shot up so scoring on the second day will be more relaxed. ASA is in a very difficult situation here, do they make new ranges for each individual class and then not as many show up. It is a no win scenerio, if you shot 6 per stake and you are last 3 people in lower 12 and say 2 in the top how would you feel. Plus just the grind of waiting so much will test nerves of individuals. I do not know the answer, but nobody knew known 45 and open B would be so huge


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

wrevans said:


> I agree 100%....just saying that each class has to shoot the same 40 targets. I'm in the first 80 so I'm ready to go, but I do think it would be worthwhile to look at a Friday-Saturday for those in the later 80. The ultimate solution is to probably to do what KStigall is suggesting, and separate the K45 and Open B since the numbers are currently there to support it.


As I pointed out in previous posts it is NOT that simple. As it currently stands other classes would be impacted by splitting Open B and K45 onto their own ranges.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I don't think it's that big of a deal.... the problem "solved" itself. 

Has anyone noticed that attendance in a given class plummets when they announce the all-in-one-day thing? 

Look at K45:
in FL- 120ish shooters.
in GA - 140ish shooters.
In LA (announced the<80 thing) - 90ish shooters.
In TX (same as above) - 90ish shooters

What happened to Open B and Hunter when they did the same thing? 

If I ran the ASA, I'd take the decline in those classes as a rejection of my "solution" by my customers and I'd go back to the drawing board.


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## wrevans (Dec 13, 2012)

Kstigall said:


> As I pointed out in previous posts it is NOT that simple. As it currently stands other classes would be impacted by splitting Open B and K45 onto their own ranges.


Not simple, but an additional Range and some shuffling of the classes that share these ranges would make it possible to handle more than 80 over a two day period.

Fact of the matter is, they've made it clear on how they will handle more than 80 and everyone has had the opportunity to register early. There is now way to predict which group will have an advantage.......weather, target condition, etc. will all have an impact no matter how hard they try to keep everything on an even playing field. It is what it is.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

bhtr3d said:


> That's going to be their fault....I posted the time thing a couple weeks back....so its on them for not stepping up soon enough


I understand you're approachI with this post but do no agree.....the open class shooters and all of the amateur classss for that matter are the bread and butter of the ASA......it first started with treating Open C shooters like 2nd class citizens and now I see it trickled to Open B.......men and woman alike travelmany miles to fork out their hard earned cash to shoot these ASA shoots.....most of then I know register the day they get to the shoot for many reasons I.e. may not be able to attend if a last minute issue pops up so they dont pre register due to not wanting to loose there entry feeor have it rolled over, not sure what class they wanna shoot, may not have the money till closer to shoot time the list could go on and on.....

In my opinion for ASA or their spoke people to say in a nutshell to ore register or you will have your ASA experience crammed into one long 12hr day in the hot KY sun on the power line field is WRONG!!!!!


Its sad to say but like most great company's ASA will be another that let their heads get so big thst in the end they self destruct themselves 


Jusy my 2 cents


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kody.....I accept your response. .....but I am still sticking with what I feel and believe......and I don't really belirve all that many people wait till the last minute for a national event....
Lets look at the numbers....with a week left the class nubers just reached the 80 numbers. ......the last minute peolle you taalk about ""generally"" is locals of that event....


Seeya there


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

bhtr3d said:


> Kody.....I accept your response. .....but I am still sticking with what I feel and believe......and I don't really belirve all that many people wait till the last minute for a national event....
> Lets look at the numbers....with a week left the class nubers just reached the 80 numbers. ......the last minute peolle you taalk about ""generally"" is locals of that event....
> 
> Seeya there


Well numbers don't lie I guess.....if the 80 numbers been reached seems like your guys new approach is working


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

It simply isn't fair. What if a guy has spent time and money traveling to all of the shoots to compete in the Open B SOY and finds himself in the top 15. His goal might be to finish in the top 10.....top 5. Not everyone spends time on the internet daily, weekly, or even monthly. This hypothetical guy will be very upset when he finds out that he has to shoot 40 targets in one day because he didn't pre-register.

Pre-registering is not the answer. If we all do it, then it becomes who does it first. Should I pay now for all of next year's shoots??? I don't think 40 targets in one day is the worst of it, but rather the 8+ hours on the range. It just isn't a level playing field, and more could be done to avoid it.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Here's something to think about.....those in open b....shooting at 8am......lets take the highest total over 80...would be about 40......going by ga high numbers......I would say they would be well done at 11.......


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

ASA has 11 ranges for london so 11 ranges X 80 shooters per range = 880 shooters at each start time. So you have 880 start at 9 and 880 at 1 that gives room for 1760 shooters Saturday. With this setup everyone can't shoot on Sunday. The only remedy for everyone to shoot 2 days is add 8 more ranges. This would allow for 1520 shooters and everyone to shoot 2 days and head home by noon Sunday. Or they can keep the same number of ranges and have 2 shoot times Sunday 8 am and Noon! Anyone signing up late would shoot the noon Sunday time, I think in the beginning ASA did this.

There are solutions to the problem. Not every venue will need so many extra ranges Fl, LA and TX would only need 4 extra ranges but do the venues have the extra room for these ranges? Does ASA have enough officials? Who pays for the extra targets and transport? 

I don't think anyone should be forced to shoot 40 in one day. The question is will the ASA find a better solution that supports growth or are they satisfied with the number of shooters and like the way it is ran now?


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Ive shot 40 Targets in one day and its no fun let me tell you

I dont even shoot 40 targets in a weekend at home let alone drive 9 hours or more to shoot a National Event and pay National Event entry fees and hotel room cost and my side of the gas bill only to have my class or now classes pushed over to the side and forced to shoot all 40 in one day due to mismanagment by the ASA staff......


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## bowpro34 (Jun 17, 2007)

Haven't registered yet. Seriously debating on skipping out this year


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

bowpro34 said:


> Haven't registered yet. Seriously debating on skipping out this year


Bowpro34 I dont blame ya bud......I understand ASA approach but come on seriously.....if you dont pre register then hey sorry about ya not really good customer service if you ask me.......ASA is growing the sport is growing that is a good thing!!!!! Its ASA job in my eyes to accommodate this growth hell theirs the ones who are making profit off more shooters you can't tell me they cant set up a few more ranges and have everyone shoot 20/20 Sat- Sun.....after the shoot the ranges get sold anyways.....

ASA is pulling this STRONG ARM tactic on the lower level amateur classes cause they know that if yhey tired it with Semi Pro, Men Pro or Woman Pro not only the shooters but their sponsors would be like SEE YA.......

Dont prey on the weak please it shows poor character.....we all come to the National Shoots to have the big shoot feel, see friends, hang out and compete.....dont think I can give my best effort if I know am going to be gutting out a 40 target course in one day on the sunny/hot power line fields ranges.....Us lower class guys pay our money like everyone else so treat us like everyone else


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Then to top it off an Asa director gets on hear and tells people too freakn bad if you don't preregistration
Very bad customer service to take people money no matter what class then only treat high class properly


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

treeman65 said:


> Then to top it off an Asa director gets on hear and tells people too freakn bad if you don't preregistration
> Very bad customer service to take people money no matter what class then only treat high class properly


I couldn't agree more.....I goto the shoots to have fun, look at products vendors have to sell (most likely spend way more than I need 2), shoot sims, hang out at practice range, go out to dinner with friends and swim in pool at hotel lol.....how can I do all of the above mentioned things above and really enjoy myself if am shooting 40 targets in one day....that takes up a lot of time and energy.....

TREAT ALL CLASSES THE SAME!!!!!!!!
Or
TRY THIS TACTIC ON SEMI PRO, OPEN MEN OR WOMAN PRO and see if the backlash is as bad if not worst than what is being tossed ASA way right now


Dont mess up a good thing......accommodate the growth by having more ranges set up everyone will benefit from it....shooters, vendors, local economy the list could go on and on

ASA get off your high horse and drop the "awell you were warned to register early" approach and take care of the ones who are taking care of you!!!


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## NateUK (Dec 4, 2008)

People complaining should actually go through the numbers and try to make decisions on how they would organize an ASA pro am. I can't imagine having to do that and keep things running as smoothly as the ASA does.
It was announced quite a while ago that Open B and Known 45 would be shooting all in one day if you aren't one of the first 80 to register. It's been on the front page of the ASA website ever since the Texas shoot. If you think you may attend a national level shoot and you don't ever take the time to get online and actually look at the ASA website, then that's your own fault. When you see that announcement, you should probably think to yourself...hey I better decide if I'm actually going to go to this shoot soon if I don't want to shoot all in one day. I usually register when I get to the event, but I saw the announcement so I registered online a few weeks ago.
I've shot 40 targets in one day several times at national IBO shoots. It's not as bad as some of you make it out to be, and there is a lot more walking on those courses than ASA. 
What if Saturday is beautiful and sunny, and Sunday morning is rainy and dark? Who has the advantage then?? Yep, those that shot it all on saturday. Then people will say it's unfair to those that shot sunday.
It's almost a no win situation for ASA, but they have to make decisions that they believe are for the greater good of the overall tournament and for everyone attending. If this new format for Open B and Known 45 allows the day to run smoother for most people, then it was the right decision.
I'm gonna go shoot my best and have fun regardless.


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## gaberichter (Aug 31, 2008)

So lets look at it from the customers money. When I shot open c and had to shoot all on Saturday I would shoot my 40 and go home instead of paying for a room for another night. 

If an open B shooter that has to shoot it all on Saturday in London puts together a great round and thinks they might make the shoot down (it's OB's turn) then they have to put up the money for a room and food for one more day. Might be worth it if you make the shoot down but if you get pushed out then it's a waste. Just my 2 cents.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

Garceau said:


> Will see.....im not interested in shooting all one day.
> 
> I will call to verify tomorrow. Not sure why 5 on stake isnt doable?
> 
> ...




I dont know about you, but at one of these events with 5 people at one stake with the caliber of shooters you have you will have a lot of ruined arrows. i wouldnt want no more than 4


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## NateUK (Dec 4, 2008)

ridgehunter70 said:


> I dont know about you, but at one of these events with 5 people at one stake with the caliber of shooters you have you will have a lot of ruined arrows. i wouldnt want no more than 4




Doesn't happen nearly as often as you would think. Also that's why bushings are important.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

ridgehunter70 said:


> I dont know about you, but at one of these events with 5 people at one stake with the caliber of shooters you have you will have a lot of ruined arrows. i wouldnt want no more than 4


I shot 6 to a stake in Asa Florida last year. 5 several times. Both 12s are available. 

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Garceau said:


> I shot 6 to a stake in Asa Florida last year. 5 several times. Both 12s are available.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Do you have to call your 12....I.e. upper/lower


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Yes....upper 12s need to be called

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Garceau said:


> Yes....upper 12s need to be called
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


"need" or MUST be called??


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

If you want the upper 12 in play it needs to be called.....or must be called for it to count.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

Garceau said:


> If you want the upper 12 in play it needs to be called.....or must be called for it to count.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2




ok thats a different story then


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> I don't think it's that big of a deal.... the problem "solved" itself.
> Has anyone noticed that attendance in a given class plummets when they announce the all-in-one-day thing?
> 
> Look at K45:
> ...



If having archers shoot both ranges the same day reduces participation then it is in the _best interest_ of the ASA to find a better solution than shooting both ranges in a single day. A "solution" is NOT a "solution" if it causes customers to no longer be customers. However, I believe TX and LA have overall lower participation. 

London, KY has drawn big in the past. So it'll be obvious if "all in one day" hurts a class. I expect it does for a few reasons. One of which is that at least some "locals" may have a problem getting on site by say 6:30 a.m. Saturday. Archers traveling some distance to the shoot could have a problem with shooting at 8 am on Saturday. Of course shooting both ranges in one day may not be desirable for even more folks. I don't know how many of the archers that refuse to shoot all in one day sign up for another class that shoots over two days. 

The difference between 90 archers and 135 archers in a class is a huge 50%!


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

I really hope that OPEN B shooters protest this......as I have stated in ealier post they started this trend with Bow Novice and then Open C and now its migratred itself to Open B.....it will not stop or improve unless the paying customer (the shooters) protest it.....Shooting all in one day takes away from the time you have to shoot the Sims, practice range, bale targets, vist vendors at the shoot, etc etc

SHOOTING ALL IN ONE DAY IS NOT THE ANSWER.......


Rember this post......if this does not change the ASA as we know it in four years will no longer be as powerful as it is now and partipation numbers will drop 40%

Mike T and Dee balls in your court we are all waiting to see what you will do with it!!!


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## wvlongshot (Aug 11, 2008)

Quick question.....Will all shooters be on the unknown part of the course at the same time????? Was there an issue with this in London last yr????


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## nickel shooter5 (Dec 26, 2009)

Garceau said:


> If you want the upper 12 in play it needs to be called.....or must be called for it to count.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


How many needs to be in a group for the upper 12 to come into play?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

nickel shooter5 said:


> How many needs to be in a group for the upper 12 to come into play?


They are always in play now. No shooter/stake limit.

Call the upper to your group if you want to shoot it. Doing so "deactivates" the lower for you though. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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