# Can I vent? Yes, this is the internet in America....



## northern rednek (Oct 24, 2008)

[emoji106]
I would hate to see it get to where someone doesn't want to post something that could really help people because they would get burnt at the stake.


----------



## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Lotta good in there Scooter................gonna have to think on it all a bit. 

My first impression though was this, this is what was going through my mind as I read it. 

We have NASP, great program, lots of good instructors. We have US Archery, great program, lot of great instructors. You have some print and internet coaching that cater to beginner and mid level archers, huge asset, lots of great information. That information is shared pretty freely. *There are many very successful shooters that come from these venues.* But listen closely........in a lot of peoples eyes the above areas are where the good information is taught. In many respects, that's true. 

But here's the kicker.........none of these venues are where you learn to shoot a bow and make your living, or at least a part of your living. You learn to excel at this game by studying the very best. Then you apply what works for you. Then you develop YOUR shot. 

^^^ Right there is the big disconnect. If you want to be the best you have to learn from the best. The disconnect is with who "the best" is. I know who those people are for me. It seems to be working pretty well. But then I don't really have any aspirations to be an NASP Champion. :wink:

Go shoot your bow Scooter. Clears your head. :cheers:


----------



## scootershooter1 (May 6, 2013)

northern rednek said:


> [emoji106]
> I would hate to see it get to where someone doesn't want to post something that could really help people because they would get burnt at the stake.


You've been on here long enough to know that's how it goes, as sad as it may be....

Im just trying to say that there is no correct way to do anything. This game isnt a math class where there is a right or wrong answer. BUT so many people stand behind and advocate a certain method of something like there is. Im basically trying to say: Stop telling everyone else to do what you found that works best for you is the best way to do it in the whole wide world. Everyone is different, every bow is different, every arrow is different, every string is different, every release is different, every combination of all these things that makes a SHOOTER is, in fact, DIFFERENT. So just everyone, STOP telling someone they are doing it wrong. Because there is no "right" way.... HELP them! Dont say they are doing it wrong, because there is no right, HELP them find THEIR...RIGHT. Thats all.


----------



## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

northern rednek said:


> [emoji106]
> I would hate to see it get to where someone doesn't want to post something that could really help people because they would get burnt at the stake.


In some respects burning at the stake would be better than what goes on in here sometimes. :deadhorse


----------



## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

This won't stay here long so I'll jump in while it's still here.

Welcome to Team Edward. :darkbeer:


----------



## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

cbrunson said:


> This won't stay here long so I'll jump in while it's still here.
> 
> Welcome to Team Edward. :darkbeer:


I kinda think the same thing, but it's actually directed at some of the folks in this specific forum so hopefully it will stay.


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

It's about this forum, not some other.....


----------



## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

There are 2 stickies at the top of this forum

One is general rules, the other is specific rules that are unique to this forum.

Being an Int-Adv group, we are going to have members that are more sure of their techniques and opinions than in other groups.

This has lead to some arguing and debating, which is fine.

Personal attacks are not welcome, and many have been deleted or edited.

Some have started getting quite personal, even if individual posts can't really be classified as a personal attack (one is free to attack your point of view, but not you).

I have been of the mind that because of the dynamics of this group, we will have more hard headed views, and that will spur debate... Which is good.

I have not wanted to "rule with an iron fist", and still do not.
However, those rules in the stickies will be more strictly enforced from here on out.

If a post contains a small nugget of insult or personal attack, or if it gets too far off topic, it may just get a little (sometimes creative) editing and/or a warning.

If you don't want your post edited, don't push the boundaries. The alternative to an edit, is a delete and infraction.

If it is more than that, warnings, infractions, and bans will be the result.

I do NOT want to ban anyone here. If infractions add up, you get a "vacation".

I encourage everyone to re-read the rules stickies, and act accordingly.


----------



## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Good stuff, scooter. I've avoided posting in here for a while now. The same few guys are dominating seemingly every thread with back and forth bickering over the same tired stuff.


----------



## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

^^^ Give us some new material Ned! Start a good topic! :cheers:


----------



## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Out of the 25 different threads here on the first page, 9 of them are hinge related or hinge questions and or comments and that doesn't count this one that I presume was also about the hinge and the bickering going on. Must be a lot of bad weather keeping people indoors hammering away at the keyboard.


----------



## scootershooter1 (May 6, 2013)

Not from bad weather there 3D just an intolerance for playground bully-ing.....

To the MODs: I humbly apologize for any and all infractions I may or may not have committed (upon discretion) and accept full responsibility no matter the consequences....I was merely trying to bring to light the fact that even at the heightened skill level that this group is meant for, there are still severl members saying "my way is better than yours" Any shooter worth their salt knows that is absolutely false. That is all.....

Bet seriously, we all are all in this forum because we are supposedly ABOVE all the typical BS that is in the normal discussion forums. So lets create our own "high class BS" to rain down on each other??.........really

We're all in this together, so lets just be friends, or just not ridicule each other. "Archers Helping Archers" Its that the motto of this whole place? Thats my basic point. Anyone who is here (the IntAdv) KNOWS, whole hardheartedly, without a shadow of a doubt, that there is no right/wrong way. So why cant we all just get along, and HELP each other find that way?

Again, I fully apologize for anything I may have said that has conflicted with the way this SubForum operates. 

Just some food for thought to the many above average shooters that enjoy this site to its fullest.


----------



## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Again, seeing the people in this group are more advanced, some more than others, and more experienced. They will be more sure of their ways.
Couple several of these in the same room, all confident that their technique is if not THE best, it is at least the best for them and probably worked out well for anyone they have coached, and you are going to have a debate. Soon as someone comes along, and tells you that what you have done for years, if not decades is "wrong" your going to have problems.
All I ask is that people here treat each other with respect. You can disagree, and say why, but if your going to flat out say someone is doing it "wrong" you better have absolute proof for your theory.
And by proof, that means it can never work for anyone.
I don't think your going to be able to do that, especially if someone else is doing, and has been successful at the thing you say is "wrong".

I have trouble understanding WHY we continually need to try to talk someone out of their chosen technique. Is it to prove to ourselves that we are "right"?
If someone wants to explain how it works to them, you can disagree, and say why that didn't work for YOU, but after that, why debate it? Who cares? You know what works for you and maybe people you teach, you've stated it. What is left to gain saying either your way is the only way, or the other guys way is wrong?

There is plenty of blame on BOTH sides of the hinge threads.
But it goes for anything else. 

Scootershooter1, you haven't done anything wrong here.

I will reiterate, I am going to be a little more strict at least until we start learning how to behave here.
You may get a posts deleted, it might just be that you quote or reply to another post that was deleted. Just an FYI.


----------



## scootershooter1 (May 6, 2013)

Understood. Thank you. 

BTW This wasnt meant to dial in on any "hinge" shooting technique, just more of a generalization to the game we all participate in and love dearly. I just dont get it sometimes, thats all....


----------



## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I have always felt the same as Scooter. I teach my way but I preach that my way is not always the best way for them. I always tell them that once they master the basic skills, they should experiment. A good example is bow hand grip. There is a grip that works great for each individual as long as the bow is not grabbed during the shot. I hate it when I see new archers shooting with their bow hands wide open because this is the way they were taught and told that it is the only way everyone should do it. 

This is the way instructors are taught because this is the way recurve shooters have been taught and the books have been written by recurve shooters.


----------



## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I hit post it before I was done. What I was trying to say is I would love to see the experts on AT say "this is what works for me" instead of this is the only way to shoot correctly. And quit saying I have never used such and such but this is the way it has to be done.


----------



## possum trapper (Nov 24, 2005)

I agree.Larry Wise has it correct.Learn to shoot a 10 and repeat it.Its that simple.We all make it way too difficult


----------



## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

scootershooter1 said:


> NEWS FLASH!!!!!! ATTENTION ALL ARCHERS!!!!!
> 
> Breaking News!
> 
> ...


The only thing I see wrong with this is that it's in the WRONG section according to AT rules. Personally I think it should be in the Anything forum.


----------



## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Being a still relatively new forum, where the rules governing it are unique, I have been open to people discussing how we want this forum run.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm going to chime in here just to shed some positive light on all of this. Through reading the plethora of hinge/BT bickering threads I've actually been able to pick up some nice little nuggets of info that probably wouldn't have come to light in civil threads. Sometimes emotion is good as it can unlock some things in the brain IMO. If people wouldn't have got so mad about this I highly doubt as much detail would've been brought to the discussion. 

I don't post down here often, if at all, because I consider myself somewhere between Novice and intermediate. I do "lurk" here quite a bit and while the personal attacks aren't cool, I find the heated sometimes redundant threads to be quite informative and I've learned far more from them than the "generic", "civil" threads posted elsewhere.

I just wanted to put an "outsiders" perspective to all of this. I know some can't tolerate the B.S. but it really doesn't bother me. These discussion have led to "archers helping archers", sometimes it's a bumpy road to receive that help but that is cool with me.


----------



## northern rednek (Oct 24, 2008)

This ^^^ Through all this I have learned a lot and actually gotten over a issue I was having.


----------



## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I do agree a good heated debate CAN get down to the very core of an argument.
It's when people get personal that the thread becomes negative.
Sometimes these debates bring up new topics. While that is all good, those NEW topics need new threads.
As mentioned before, I'm going to be moderating a little more strictly, you will notice several threads closed because we go so many posts without discussing the topic at hand. That doesn't mean I'm upset at the direction the thread has gone, only that new topics deserve their own place. Just trying to maintain some integrity here.


----------



## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Mahly said:


> I do agree a good heated debate CAN get down to the very core of an argument.
> It's when people get personal that the thread becomes negative.
> Sometimes these debates bring up new topics. While that is all good, those NEW topics need new threads.
> As mentioned before, I'm going to be moderating a little more strictly, you will notice several threads closed because we go so many posts without discussing the topic at hand. That doesn't mean I'm upset at the direction the thread has gone, only that new topics deserve their own place. Just trying to maintain some integrity here.


This is in ADDITION to the above

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2413613


----------

