# New Kisik Lee Hoyt Grip



## gairsz (Mar 6, 2008)

Lee has said in the past that other manufacturers of custom grips were bad because they have to custom made for each individual archer. Not so much?


----------



## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

gairsz said:


> Lee has said in the past that other manufacturers of custom grips were bad because they have to custom made for each individual archer. Not so much?


Yes. The "Best" third party grip which is available for some years was a copy from one specific archer and his grip modified for his (big) hand. The result was a pretty big grip - too big for most archers. Don't know if this was whether inexperience, ignorance or both.

It's hard to build a grip which suits all archers and there is a reason why most competitive archers modify their grips with epoxy putty. But just from the pictures the Hoyt KSL grip looks ok and will be a good base for less modifyings than some other stock grips.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

It's going to have the same torquing issues as previous models.


----------



## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

Here's what it looks like on a GMX. My training partner has been shooting it for a while and he likes it. He shoots 330+ at 70 if his qualifications matter.


----------



## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Looks good.Is the base for the palm horizontal or angled?


----------



## Blunt Arrow (Mar 2, 2006)

Basically this looks like the Loesch grip I have shot for the last twelve years. Lee hasn't reinvented wheel, just the price.


----------



## zal (May 1, 2007)

Looks like a solid base to build on, which I expect it is, rather than finished product.

Shape is quite different from Loesch's I have, it's just the laminated look that makes it look similarish.


----------



## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

Blunt Arrow said:


> Basically this looks like the Loesch grip I have shot for the last twelve years.


That was my first-thought when I saw the picture of it. - john


----------



## Blunt Arrow (Mar 2, 2006)

I pushed Loesch to flatten the back of the grip for me and tilt it to one side. After that he started to make all his grips that way. Believe me when I say there isn't much out there that hasn't already been done. Manufacturing and tec have greatly moved forward, but the basic foundation of shooting really hasn't changed that much.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

gairsz said:


> Lee has said in the past that other manufacturers of custom grips were bad because they have to custom made for each individual archer. Not so much?




Yup. And there is nothing "new" about this grip. If you don't believe me, ask Jake K. So much for IP I guess. All I can say is that I hope the archers who shot this for so many years, are getting a cut.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Captain Kirk said:


> Yes. The "Best" third party grip which is available for some years was a copy from one specific archer and his grip modified for his (big) hand. The result was a pretty big grip - too big for most archers. Don't know if this was whether inexperience, ignorance or both.
> 
> It's hard to build a grip which suits all archers and there is a reason why most competitive archers modify their grips with epoxy putty. But just from the pictures the Hoyt KSL grip looks ok and will be a good base for less modifyings than some other stock grips.


LOL. "inexperience, ignorance or both..." 

Would you like to continue to guess, or do you want facts? If you choose the latter, you may find them inconvenient though.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Blunt Arrow said:


> Basically this looks like the Loesch grip I have shot for the last twelve years. Lee hasn't reinvented wheel, just the price.


And the same grips that Butch and Jenny (and many others) shot world class scores with for oh-so-many years... 

People today have no idea just how good James' grips were, or why they were so coveted by many of the top archers. It's a loss to the archery community that he stopped making grips.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

LAS is out of RH versions

I will get one and give it to "Darrell The Grip Guru" for his review and likely modification. Most of our kids are shooting grips that DTGG has worked on with his ever present belt sander and other tools.


----------



## TwentySix (Feb 25, 2011)

Arsi said:


> Here's what it looks like on a GMX. My training partner has been shooting it for a while and he likes it. He shoots 330+ at 70 if his qualifications matter.


How much difference is there between this new grip and the Formula high wrist one?


----------



## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

TwentySix said:


> How much difference is there between this new grip and the Formula high wrist one?


Looks flatter maybe. Biggest difference is the bit coming down into the 'v' formed by the thumb and forefinger. It would be great to get a side view to see if there's a tilt to it.


----------



## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Looks kinda familiar


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

But Paul, that's missing the most important feature...


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> But Paul, that's missing the most important feature...


The KSL branding?


----------



## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

I like Hoyt but any of their grips have always been lacking for me in one way or the other. It also helps that Jager Archery is not too far from my home. Looking for fantastic grips (style, color, multi-material, etc.) , Paul Jager is the guy for it.


----------



## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

I knew I forgot something. Probably won't work now.


----------



## zal (May 1, 2007)

Yamaha medium-high replacement grip.

Too bad I lost it some years ago when I moved, so can't get a photo. Apart from the thumb-forefinger V it is pretty much identical (and I've been told that also a starting point for some Korean archers to modify their grips in the 80's/90's).


----------



## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

A little off topic with this question but it seems hard to find answers for recommendations on starting places with grip heights - my apologies in advance!

For target recurve shooting, do you recommend starting with a medium and possibly trying a high grip or the reverse? I suppose the alternative is buy both and see what works best for me but I'm trying to get good advice and avoid the extra $50 and use it somewhere else (there is always something else to spend it on .

Thanks all and sorry for the highjack!


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

We are in the testing phase of a new grip geometry. It's kinda freaky and counterintuitive. But it does the job right every single time, when you learn how to use it. Veteran OR archers are going to hate it. Side effects include tendency to forget or outright discard your arm guards.


----------



## camperjim (Oct 22, 2016)

If it helps, I just got a Jager medium 2.0 grip and like it a lot. It is my understanding that the higher grips have gone out of fashion. If the pressure point is lower on the pad of the thumb, the pressure lines up with the bones of the forearm. At least that seems to work for me with the medium grip.

I have no idea about IP when it comes to a grip, but it seems that the new Hoyt grip is out of date. I like the 2.0 style. It seems to avoid torqueing the bow with the pad on the distal portion of the hand.


----------



## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

camperjim said:


> It is my understanding that the higher grips have gone out of fashion.


Really?

The grip height depends on many factors - especially the rotation of the forearm resulting in the angle of the wrist position. Really minor degrees in rotation will result in different degrees of the wrist getting it in a stable position. As this is dependent on your own anatomy a stock or third party grip will be in most cases a compromise and should only serve as a starting point for building up your own grip. 

No matter if this is a Jager, Hoyt-KSL or whatever super duper piece.

PS: This is for me a pretty high build up grip. As most Koreans shoot higher grips.







Source: www.worldarchery.org


----------



## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

Captain Kirk said:


> PS: This is for me a pretty high build up grip. As most Koreans shoot higher grips.


That is what I see most often out at tournaments as high wrist. Also pressure point depends on what you can reproduce consistently. Lots of pressure points have been used successfully.


----------



## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Good illustration. 
Arsi, watch the old photos of these retired archers and study their position of arm, elbow, forearm and grip height.
This all interlinks.


----------



## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks for your thoughts everyone...I'll have to play a bit around with some tape and figure it out what works before ordering.


----------



## camperjim (Oct 22, 2016)

Captain Kirk, thanks for the follow up. I recently training with a Level 4 coach who was very adamant about the advantages of a lower pressure point. It took some time for me to become consistent with a lower pressure point --- about midway down the thumb pad. Now it seems to work for me and is very natural with my new Jager medium grip.


----------



## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Camperjim, yes a good coach is probably the best way to find the right grip position. At least some with competence watching you from outside.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I got a left handed one in today from LAS. One of my top lady archers just got a new Faktor so I ordered this for her. first impression-it looked almost ambidextrous. She wasn't at practice tonight so I gave it to "Darrell the Grip Guru"

I suggest its gonna get a major makeover :wink:


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Captain Kirk said:


> Good illustration.
> Arsi, watch the old photos of these retired archers and study their position of arm, elbow, forearm and grip height.
> This all interlinks.


Minor point, but Vic ain't retired yet. Which really is a amazing since he was good enough 21 years ago, to be used as an example of grip pressure.


----------



## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Vic Wunderle is still on the international circus? Wow, not bad. He had indeed a steady career.
EDIT: Can't find anything on world archery that he is still active?

Anyway, since this was not the topic - if someone compares an archers position of shoulder, elbow and forearm with his pressure points you will see a pattern.
And you will see a reason why it's not a good idea to install a grip designed for one specific archer or as a "compromise" and hoping it will fit for yourself.
This will not replace a custom built up grip.


----------



## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

Does this grip only fit the current batch of Hoyt risers? I have a Gillo G1 and I'd like to experiment with a high grip.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


----------



## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

wiatrog said:


> Does this grip only fit the current batch of Hoyt risers? I have a Gillo G1 and I'd like to experiment with a high grip.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


The grip fits my GMX. I asked Vito about the Gillo grip and I think the response was that the Gillo grip and the Hoyt grips cannot be interchanged. I could be wrong though. I would send a message to him to confirm.


----------



## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

wiatrog said:


> Does this grip only fit the current batch of Hoyt risers? I have a Gillo G1 and I'd like to experiment with a high grip.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


You can get one for your bow from Jager.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Arsi said:


> The grip fits my GMX. I asked Vito about the Gillo grip and I think the response was that the Gillo grip and the Hoyt grips cannot be interchanged. I could be wrong though. I would send a message to him to confirm.


Confirm they are NOT interchangeable. But we also offer an High profile grip in both 3D plastic and wood fir those that want to eplore the diferent feeling.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Any grip is interchangeable with the right tools and approach.


----------



## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Any grip is interchangeable with the right tools and approach.


Like a chain saw!

“Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic”


----------



## chase128 (May 29, 2015)

Cutting through the innuendo, I wonder what the KSL grip looks like compared to the new Jager CMS? 

As they appear to be designs based on a similar principle, I would be curious about the specific dimensional differences. From pictures online the upper buildup looks more extensive in the CMS, and smaller but more angular in the KSL. The KSL also appears to flare larger in front. I can't really tell if there is a difference in rear shelf angle though.

Has anyone compared them side-by-side yet?


----------



## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

As an update, I have a KSL grip but I have not had a chance to play around with it yet. We bought three at AZ Cup and all three were shaped slightly different... not very happy with that. Not sure when I will have a chance to put it on my bow as I am still in the middle of the season and I am happy with my current grip.

OCBrent, the one you have is slimmer than the one I got!


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Arsi said:


> As an update, I have a KSL grip but I have not had a chance to play around with it yet. *We bought three at AZ Cup and all three were shaped slightly different... *not very happy with that. Not sure when I will have a chance to put it on my bow as I am still in the middle of the season and I am happy with my current grip.
> 
> OCBrent, the one you have is slimmer than the one I got!


Just proves they are hand shaped by KSL himself :teeth:


----------



## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

I have one, and it is very high rosy, slim, and has fairly sharp corners. I don't like it, but I do shoot well with it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OCBrent (Sep 27, 2007)

Arsi said:


> As an update, I have a KSL grip but I have not had a chance to play around with it yet. We bought three at AZ Cup and all three were shaped slightly different... not very happy with that. Not sure when I will have a chance to put it on my bow as I am still in the middle of the season and I am happy with my current grip.
> 
> OCBrent, the one you have is slimmer than the one I got!


Arsi: Well, considering you're continuing to work your way up the National Rankings, you're shooting pretty good with whatever Grip you have now!
Let me know when you want to switch with mine. 
I haven't switched back to any of the other grips I've tried out this year, so I like it more than those (stock Prodigy, stock Ion-X, stock Horizon, and Hoyt High Grip).
I haven't measured with the Calipers, but I found I had to move my clicker further back in changing from the Hoyt High Grip to the Hoyt KSL Grip. So, anecdotally, I do think the KSL is "more built-up at the throat". 

Brent


----------

