# Scopes, Diopters, and other stuff like that...



## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

Alright...

I officially have the "scope bug", and am fixing to purchase a new setup...

Can someone please explain to me about the different "diopters", and stuff like that?

And which Clarifiers go with which magnifications, and which Diopters go with which.........Whatever it is they go with...LOL


I know which brands I am going to buy for a rail AND scope setup...I just need to know about the "little things" that you need to know about getting a scope setup.


Thanks yall,

Austin


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

Nobody knows anything about scopes and diopters...

Seriously...

I need to know as much info, as quickly as possible.


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## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

get an axcel 3000 9" bar..

Viper scope with a 0.10" Pin, no more then a 4x for 3d..

might have to play with clairifiers and peep sizes to get a clear picture but usually you dont need a claifier with a 4x or less scope...


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## WVTrophyhunter (Apr 29, 2008)

I would go with a CBE bar and either a Viper or Extreme scope 2x or 4x. Cant say much on a clairifier I have never shot one but I plan on trying one this year. Hope you have luck with finding the right set up that works for you.


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## camoham (Nov 3, 2004)

this biggest thing is learning about the 'diopter' that is listed on the lens and the 'actual' apparent magnification.

the sure-loc website has a chart that somewhat explains this.

basically, there is a direct correlation between 'power' and distance from the peep to actual scope lens................and what is 'perceived'.

from my experience, depending on eyesight, glasses, etc................some may or may not need a 'clarifier'.

with that said, i use a viper 4x and #1 yellow clarifier. that one works with my 6x as well...........but probably shouldnt according to most suggestions.

i shoot a 4x................but due to my short dl and other quirky habits.............im probably only really 'seeing' about 2x.

there's a lot to learn. good luck on your quest.

camoham


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

camoham said:


> this biggest thing is learning about the 'diopter' that is listed on the lens and the 'actual' apparent magnification.
> 
> the sure-loc website has a chart that somewhat explains this.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info Camoham. I'm going to be using an Axcel AX3000 9", with Sure-Loc Black Eagle 42mm scope. 

The main question I pro ably should have asked is this:

With a 27.5" DL, with that setup on a Dren LD, if I wanted a 4x lense, what grind & diopter and clarified would I need?

Also would like to know about 6x setup, as well...

Thanks for the help guys,

Austin


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## camoham (Nov 3, 2004)

if youre wanting to reach an actual "4x" your going to have to look at the chart.

diopter as i understand it is the "grind"/numerical value given to the lens.

i believe the 4x is a .50...............but as previously mentioned may or may not end up being and actual 4x.

i shoot a 4x for 3d, even though my yardage estimation still blows. i also use this same lens when shooting at field targets in the back yard. 

i only use a 6x when shooting at 20 yard spots............well at least the vegas. ive used the 4x for 5 spot.

a lot of it comes down to how things look in your "eyes". unfortuneatly, there are no stone cold absolutes..............hopefully you have a shop that can allow you to experiement to see what works without having to make a bunch of costly ordering errors.

camoham


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

Well, I hope my local shop will, but some folks are funny about opened packages u know?

So diopter is just a fancy way of saying it's a ___x 
Magnification scope???


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## 3dbowtechman (Jun 22, 2008)

Try a #1 clarifier with your 4x lens.Works great for me.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

MudRunner2005 said:


> Well, I hope my local shop will, but some folks are funny about opened packages u know?
> 
> So diopter is just a fancy way of saying it's a ___x
> Magnification scope???



No, it has to do with distance of the magnification from your eye to the scope lense.... 


Austin, just take this stuff graduallly, just go a little at a time about all this stuff.


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

bhtr3d said:


> No, it has to do with distance of the magnification from your eye to the scope lense....
> 
> 
> Austin, just take this stuff graduallly, just go a little at a time about all this stuff.


What do you mean?

I've been shooting bows my whole life...But I've never shot scoped setup before...

The first time I shot one, I shot as good, if not better than I do with my pins setup.

So, I understand that because Sure-Loc is in cahoots with Swarovski, and that Swaro uses the word diopter, for their rifle scopes...I figured that was the reason...

So, a 4x mag scope has a .50 diopter...If you have a .50 diopter lense, that would mean that you have a 4x mag. scope......Right?

So, you can get different diopter 4x lenses???


What makes yall think I'm moving into this stuff too fast, but it's okay for others (not named), to jump on up to the "big leagues"?


I am ALOT better than I have been shooting lately...I assure you.

My problems were from me and that bow not getting along...We just didn't like each other.

It happens sometimes.


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## Ohio_3Der (Jul 19, 2002)

Diopter rating is a concrete measurement. When you talk about "power" that is subjective and changes set up to set. You can have a stronger or weaker .50 diopter lens depending on how far or close it is to your peep. The diopter never changes. 

You can also have companies calling the same diopter lens two different "powers." Like most companies call a 1.0 diopter a "8x." But, some companies, Britesite comes to mind, call a 1.0 diopter a "6x."


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

So, who does this measureing of the diopter for you?

Also, can you even tell where your scope needs to be for your draw-length? Like farther forward or backward...That way when I use a 4x lens, I get 4x magnification, and not a 2x, b/c of how far away it is.

For example: I am looking at a Black Eagle 42mm scope with 4x (.50 diopter) lens on an Axcel AX3000 9" rail shooting a Drenalin LD with 27.5" draw-length...

Can anyone tell me which diopter I need for outdoor 3D like ASA, IBO, and BHA?

Also, can anyone tell me what the strongest lens that is recommended for shooting outdoor 3D???

What do most folks use?

What would yall recommend as far as clarifiers, too?


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

Also, with my short draw-length for a Drenalin LD what degree angle SuperBall hooded peep housing do I need?

Draw-Length: 27.5"

Bow's Axle-to-Axle: 37.0"


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## ArrowStar1 (Jun 10, 2008)

I'm not sure on the angle required for your bow/draw length combo. I would call Lancaster Archery and tell them what you have and they will get you the right one.
As far as scope power goes I shoow a Black Eagle 42mm .7 Diopter and it's supposed to be around 6x on a CBE sight for 3D. I shot a 4x last year and am trying the 6x with good results thus far.
As stated above-Go to Sure-loc website, they have a scope magnification calculator on their site. You put in your scope diopter and measurement from your scope to your eye and it calculates the actual percieved scope power. I would try a yellow clarifier with a 
1/8 apperature to start with. That is what is working for me, but I'm 50 and the eyes arent what they used to be.
Good luck


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

ArrowStar1 said:


> I'm not sure on the angle required for your bow/draw length combo. I would call Lancaster Archery and tell them what you have and they will get you the right one.
> As far as scope power goes I shoow a Black Eagle 42mm .7 Diopter and it's supposed to be around 6x on a CBE sight for 3D. I shot a 4x last year and am trying the 6x with good results thus far.
> As stated above-Go to Sure-loc website, they have a scope magnification calculator on their site. You put in your scope diopter and measurement from your scope to your eye and it calculates the actual percieved scope power. I would try a yellow clarifier with a
> 1/8 apperature to start with. That is what is working for me, but I'm 50 and the eyes arent what they used to be.
> Good luck


Thanks man,

I'll check it out.

So, you're shooting a 6x (.70 diopter) lens on your B.E. 42mm scope...What made you decide to change from a 4x to 6x? Did they start putting the targets farther away, than closer...???

One of my buddies said no more than a 4x...but if you've been bowhunting for more than 32 years, I think you might know your stuff...LOL

For someone who's just wanting to get into shooting scope setups for 3D, do you recommend a 6x over a 4x?


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

45 degree super peep housing is for bows under 40''
37 degree super peep housing is for bows over 40''


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

treeman65 said:


> 45 degree super peep housing is for bows under 40''
> 37 degree super peep housing is for bows over 40''


Thanks James!

You got any input or recommendations for diopters and such?

I know you know alot about scopes and stuff...


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

I wouldn't personaly shoot over a 4x for 3d. I shoot a 3x and have no need for a clarifier. You'll have to play to see what's best for you.


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> I wouldn't personaly shoot over a 4x for 3d. I shoot a 3x and have no need for a clarifier. You'll have to play to see what's best for you.


Thanks man...The only prob with that is that i can't really afford to "play around", you know?

I'm just an independent archer trying to make it in a pro-staffer's world...

LOL


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## AZBowhunt (Nov 4, 2007)

*Same thing.*

I went through the same thing about a year ago. I think when the note was made to go slow, it had to do with jumping in to all the variations you are asking about.

Honestly, there is no apparent rule for which verifier goes with each scope, or what diopter will give you the magnification you want. There are just too many variables. 

I actually found i did not need a verifier with the 4x lens. i just used a small diameter peep. Whcih one for you? You'll have to try a couple. I would start by buying a 4x (0.50) lens with no verifierand try it out. A smaller peep diameter should work for you also.

If you are really going to try out a scope, be prepared to try a couple different setups to find what works for you. I have two different scopes and really like the big diameter "Super D". It sounds like you want to make sure it is ready to go the first go 'round and it propably won't be that easy.

My two cents, 'cause I've been there.


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

Thanks AZ,

Yeah...I figured that, too...But I think it was more or less wishful thinking...LOL

The problem is that I don't make a whole lot of money, and I'm trying to get the best quality stuff available...

Everyone recommends the Black Eagle scopes b/c of the Swaro glass in it.

And I just want an Axcel (sig)...and I think they work and look awesome!

I was just wondering anybody's opinions on what works for them.

I was gonna take the majority vote, and use that setup to try first.


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## Flyfishermanbl5 (Nov 11, 2005)

*My Set-Up*

I use a Sure-Loc Challenger 550, 9" ext, a Viper 4X scope, not sure of dipoter, think it's .50 (go w/ this one over the Swaro, cost 1/3 as much and has Zeiss glass, excellent scope!!! leaves you $ to play w/ peeps) and Super Peep w/ 1x clarifier (yellow one) and 1/16" peep......you'll need a small hole, which like a camera lens, will clarify somewhat on it's own due to less light entering and creating more "depth of field".....

I have my scope out around 7" or so from bow (06' BT Constitution) and I have a 28" DL......

Again, you will need to "play around" with different peeps and clarifiers depending on your actual eyesight, I'm lucky as I need no correction to my vision......

I would not go w/ anything over 4X for 3D, makes it too difficult to pick out an actual spot on the animal, and I use same 4X for indoor spots, my personal experience has been that any more X than 4 makes me seem too wobbly anyway......

My 2 cents


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

Well, as per my sig, I kinda have to shoot an Axcel...LOL

However, I'll look into the Viper scopes...

Do they come in 42mm? If so, does it have a special name like the Classic Scopes "Magnum" (42mm)?


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## camoham (Nov 3, 2004)

viper target = 1 3/8

viper 3d= 1 3/4

fwiw, in retrospect id purchase a superball 'hooded'...................

although not much can be done for the 'shooting from bright areas to dark tunnel' situations..............other than taking the lens and clarifier out for that shot. also handy to just have a plain aperature that works with the sight without the lens in. Best to know the differences in POI in this instance as well.

with my eyes...............a 1/8 clarifier peep and a 1/8 'aperature' do not look the same!

camoham


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## MudRunner2005 (Oct 8, 2008)

camoham said:


> viper target = 1 3/8
> 
> viper 3d= 1 3/4
> 
> ...


Why not the Specialty Pro Hooded?

I know it ONLY accepts 1/8" apertures, but for a 3D bow would that really be so bad, since a "target peep" is actually 1/8"...

I'm thinking about getting a Specialty Pro Hooded for my DLD, but getting a 45* Hooded SuperBall for my Reezen for hunting, so I can change my peep's apertures per lighting conditions in the woods, or changing my sights, etc...That way I don't have to change peep out and re-serve it everytime, you know?

If I don't get the Specialty Pro Hooded 1/8 peep, then I will be going with a SuperBall...

What brand/type of peep did you go with?

Right now I've been shooting a G5 1/8" MetaPeep...and something about it isn't working right...


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## camoham (Nov 3, 2004)

my bad.

specialty hooded.

btw..........with the reg specialty ball peep................the opening is 3/16th (without aperature or clarifier) which will frame some hunting sights well too.

camoham


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