# attention all michigan hunters!!!!!!!!!!!



## 38chaz (Aug 15, 2004)

Sounds like their canadian governor is dipping into the money that the hunters bring in and spending it on the welfare. Kinda like the Feds dipping into social security. Since the state has lost 500,000 residents by flight the past few years, you would think they would perhaps cut the size of the state government. But oh no, instead they illegally (by state consitution) raised the sales tax, and of course want to raise the license fees. What a bunch of B.S.


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## ScottieD (Oct 11, 2007)

38chaz said:


> Sounds like their canadian governor is dipping into the money that the hunters bring in and spending it on the welfare. Kinda like the Feds dipping into social security. Since the state has lost 500,000 residents by flight the past few years, you would think they would perhaps cut the size of the state government. But oh no, instead they illegally (by state consitution) raised the sales tax, and of course want to raise the license fees. What a bunch of B.S.


When did they raise the sales tax?


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## short-n-fast (Dec 4, 2004)

Took affect oct 1 , from what the letter I got in the mail said. 




I wouldnt mind paying the extra for hunting , IF the money went were it is supposed to.


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## GATOR-EYE (Jun 30, 2006)

I don't mind a little increase....BUT.....the increase they're talkin about is over the line....don't the silly fools understand if they raise the tag price to fifty or sixty dollars a tag they are going to loose money??? 

Who's going to pay sixty buck to shoot a spike or a four point?? 

The guy that only buys a tag for him and his son to hunt opening weekend of gun season are gonna say heck with it and use the money to go to a hockey game.

For that price, look out Ohio I comin down to hunt.


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## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

Can someone explain what we do get for the tag? Where does this money go? It's not like the state of Michigan is setting aside more land for hunters. They sure aren't investing in more CO's. Last time I hunted michigan there was one CO per county and this state has more hunters (purchased tags)than most. The state doesn't practice any type of QDM and a land owner some year could obtain block permits owning a 10 acre parcel.


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## HVAC/R Hunter (Aug 29, 2005)

Ok they didn't raise the "Sales Tax" they raised the "State Income Tax" as far as I know sales tax is still 6%, but check your paychecks I am paying a little of 4 bucks a week more to the state than I was in September, no big deal to me.

Why would everybody begin to complain about a license increase, go to other states DNR sites and see what it costs other people in this country to shoot a whitetail deer. We have been getting off cheap for a long time. Sure nobody wants to pay more money, but it is a necessary increase to keep the DNR being productive.

Just my 2 pennies!


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## hockeymack17 (Oct 2, 2007)

I think there is nothin to worry about here.. I couldnt get my hunter safety card till the end of september so i did'nt get my bow tag till early oct. on what was usualy a 15$ out teh door (well as far as my fishing license went).. it was $15.90 for my bow tag so i think tehy just added a 6% tax which really isnt as bad as some have said..

On another note i have a quick question that i am hoping someone could PM me the anwser too..

I just got the basic resident archery license...

Now am i allowed to take a buck or a doe with it? Or do i need a doe tag aswell?

They guy at meijers said it was eathier or but seemed liek he had no clue... So better safe then sorry right?


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## old Graybeard (Nov 3, 2005)

hockeymack17 said:


> I think there is nothin to worry about here.. I couldnt get my hunter safety card till the end of september so i did'nt get my bow tag till early oct. on what was usualy a 15$ out teh door (well as far as my fishing license went).. it was $15.90 for my bow tag so i think tehy just added a 6% tax which really isnt as bad as some have said..
> 
> On another note i have a quick question that i am hoping someone could PM me the anwser too..
> 
> ...


Go here for everything you need to know.....http://www.michigan.gov/dnr


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## hockeymack17 (Oct 2, 2007)

thanks!!


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## Z-Rider (Jul 23, 2007)

I say take the govenor and the rest of the Canadian garbage they dump here and send it all back. I can see it happening this way, they raise the tag fees and then less people buy them. Instead they just poach a deer or two and not tag them. Now this could work out in the states favor because if you are caught with an illegally tagged deer or untagged deer it is something like a $1000 minimum fine. Hey they catch just a couple hundred people doing this and there goes the state debt, that is if the money actually goes towards that.

My opinion is no matter how high they raise the license fees the money is not going to go back into hunting and fishing. She will use it as she feels fit to do.
I know about 3 years ago Gov. Jenny tried dipping into athe $2,000,000+
fund that Michigan Snowmobile Association has personally collected and set aside to buy lands for right of way and trail access. She told the MSA that she was going to take it and help pay the State debts. Guess what, she got her hands slapped pretty good. The money in no way, shape, or form has anything to do with the Michigan government, it is all collected through donations, raffles, and the such. I am telling my fellow Michigan residents to watch your back as this woman thinks she ownes anything with Michigan in the title.

She Needs To Go! Period!

Just my .02, hope I did not offend anyone,
Z


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## GATOR-EYE (Jun 30, 2006)

HVAC/R Hunter said:


> Ok they didn't raise the "Sales Tax" they raised the "State Income Tax" as far as I know sales tax is still 6%, but check your paychecks I am paying a little of 4 bucks a week more to the state than I was in September, no big deal to me.
> 
> Why would everybody begin to complain about a license increase, go to other states DNR sites and see what it costs other people in this country to shoot a whitetail deer. We have been getting off cheap for a long time. Sure nobody wants to pay more money, but it is a necessary increase to keep the DNR being productive.
> 
> Just my 2 pennies!


Yeap, they take a little here a little there no one will notice....Add up what you pay the state in taxes... you will be surprised......And like Jennifer said during the election "The best is yet to come" ............

And by the way who cares what other states pay for a tag......they don't have a few million hunters every year that Michigan has. The Michigan DEQ has to have one of the highest buggets of almost any state just by pure numbers of hunting and fishing taps purchased every year.....Were is the money going??? That's the question that needs to be answered first....Jennifer has sticky hands.


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## GATOR-EYE (Jun 30, 2006)

Surprise...surprise...surprise....

This just in over the radio.....Michigan is raising income tax to keep the goverment open and running.

Last one out shut off the lights.


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## Rathbuck (Jul 19, 2004)

short-n-fast said:


> I wouldnt mind paying the extra for hunting , IF the money went were it is supposed to.


EXACTLY!

I wouldn't mind paying the extra, if I knew it was going to be used properly...


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## jdawg240 (Feb 20, 2007)

I read in the paper this morning the budget has been passed,with exception to hunting/fishing /env fee increases still on the table for debate. Im willing to pay more if it means we keep Cos in the feild and keep other dnr offices open. Maybe they will have enough money to manage deer based on science and not economics.


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## Scotty G (Sep 27, 2007)

Did you read that they are raising their salaries??? I can not believe the people of this state actualy put her back in office!!! I love this state and the town I live in but something, somewhere's gotta give. People just don't seem to care anymore. What's the point if you can't get anything done without being in power. And you can't be in a position of power unless you take money from lobbiest to fund your campaign! Then you are in debt to them............this country and state are so messed up.........this is why I don't talk politics. Gets you all worked up and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.


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## old Graybeard (Nov 3, 2005)

Scotty G said:


> Did you read that they are raising their salaries??? I can not believe the people of this state actualy put her back in office!!! I love this state and the town I live in but something, somewhere's gotta give. People just don't seem to care anymore. What's the point if you can't get anything done without being in power. And you can't be in a position of power unless you take money from lobbiest to fund your campaign! Then you are in debt to them............this country and state are so messed up.........this is why I don't talk politics. Gets you all worked up and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.


:clap:


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## jer7440 (Sep 27, 2005)

At the rate jobs are flowing out of MI, it won't be long before you won't have to worry about buying a tag....the state won't be able to afford to enforce it any way. Like Jenny said "In five years...look out"


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Z-Rider said:


> I say take the govenor and the rest of the Canadian garbage they dump here and send it all back. I can see it happening this way, they raise the tag fees and then less people buy them. Instead they just poach a deer or two and not tag them. Now this could work out in the states favor because if you are caught with an illegally tagged deer or untagged deer it is something like a $1000 minimum fine. Hey they catch just a couple hundred people doing this and there goes the state debt, that is if the money actually goes towards that.
> 
> My opinion is no matter how high they raise the license fees the money is not going to go back into hunting and fishing. She will use it as she feels fit to do.
> I know about 3 years ago Gov. Jenny tried dipping into athe $2,000,000+
> ...


Amen to that, she didn't get my vote last election. Remember, this is her 5th year and we are suppose to be "blown away" all a bunch of campaign lies!!


As for the increases, your not going to sell more licenses, you will sell fewer as it will lead to poaching or guys not getting a tag till the deer is dead on the ground. Sad but probably true!

Increase o.k. but do not double the price and then some!!


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## goemado (Feb 26, 2005)

HVAC/R Hunter said:


> Ok they didn't raise the "Sales Tax" they raised the "State Income Tax" as far as I know sales tax is still 6%, but check your paychecks I am paying a little of 4 bucks a week more to the state than I was in September, no big deal to me.
> 
> Why would everybody begin to complain about a license increase, go to other states DNR sites and see what it costs other people in this country to shoot a whitetail deer. We have been getting off cheap for a long time. Sure nobody wants to pay more money, but it is a necessary increase to keep the DNR being productive.
> 
> Just my 2 pennies!


You are correct - sales tax is not different - income tax is.


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## HVAC/R Hunter (Aug 29, 2005)

It is my understanding that the DNR proposed this increase, not Granholm, and her crew. Also the way I understand it is that the only reason it hasn't happened yet is because it hasn't gone through legislation. 

This isn't her doing, I am not saying she isn't going to benefit from it. I am just saying this isn't her proposal. I am in no way making an argument to keep her, I would NEVER do that, I just think a lot of the views on here are not fully informed. Heck who knows maybe mine is the farthest from correct but my understanding, which came from the DNR is what I stated above.

I do know that the state of Michigan has not increased a license fee since 1996. In my opinion that is a very long time and I have been benefitting from it just like everybody else.


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

Either pay for it or lose it. You decide. The DNR used to get 27% of the budget from the general fund. This year, that fell below 8%. Current proposals are 0% from general fund. SO, the message to the DNR is operate 100% by user fees (licenses). BUT, the legilsature will not vote on a license fee package due to fear from voters. They have to make up their minds one way or another.

BTW, please do not cry about an increase to $30 for a deer tag when you are spending that much on one drive to the woods for gasoline.

Dan


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## Brandon324 (Oct 12, 2007)

Michigan has certainly raised there prices on tags since 96. Doe tags went up 42% since last year. They are now 10 dollars as opposed to 7 dollars and they used to be even cheaper then that.


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## Scotty G (Sep 27, 2007)

Brandon324 said:


> Michigan has certainly raised there prices on tags since 96. Doe tags went up 42% since last year. They are now 10 dollars as opposed to 7 dollars and they used to be even cheaper then that.


Very true. I don't think the buck's have increased though. Maybe I'm crazy but weren't the doe permits $6 last year or the yr before?

"BTW, please do not cry about an increase to $30 for a deer tag when you are spending that much on one drive to the woods for gasoline."

$30 dollars is to much. Thats more than double. If they were smart, they'd take a page from the oil co.'s book and raise it slowly as to not piss every one off all at once. Just think, we were complaining about gas being $1.75 a couple of years ago. Now It's over $3 and should continue to rise due to all the alternative fuel options available and still coming.


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

Yes, *the DNR* proposed the increase to meet the budget deficit within the department. $5 per license increase. I'll take that over the doubling of license fees that were proposed earlier this year. If the DNR decides on the increase, and Granholm signs it as a way to close the gap in the DNR budget it's the DNR's fault, not hers. Look at gas prices alone; do you think those DNR vehicles run on sunshine and smiles? Those increases alone could necessitate an increase in license fees. It's called INFLATION, people.

Oh, and I love how it's brought up that she's "Canadian", and by an out of stater, no less. She's an American, born to American parents, in Canada. Are kids born to Americans stationed in Germany suddenly "Germans"  How ignorant.

Lastly, if the Republicans in the state legislature hadn't spent so much time *posturing* about the "grand plans" they had without actually discussing the plans they had regarding how they were going to fix the budget, we wouldn't have had the budget issues we had come the first of October! You want to get rid of someone? Start with Mike Rogers and go from there.

Furthermore, if she has great plans, but legislative Republicans don't pass the bills for her to sign, again, is it ALL her fault? That's like saying the reason you didn't kill a deer is because the bow was faulty; nevermind you never even went into the woods to hunt! It just doesn't wash.

I know it's fashionable in this community to be conservative and bash Granholm, but you need to look at the facts. Let's not forget the Legislators wrote the bills to increase the income tax (which even after the increase is still one of the lowest in the US) and expand the sales tax to certain services. Oh, but cuts are all the answer. Well, when your kids' school has no money because education funding was cut and cut and cut some more, let's see what you're whining about ... 

I'm not saying she is without blame, but what about Engler and his agendas that put this state into a nosedive? What about the industrial and manufacturing jobs that this state was bleeding 10, 15, 20 years ago? This state had problems long before Granholm took office, and to expect her to fix them all, especially with an opposition legislature is ridiculous.


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## Scotty G (Sep 27, 2007)

You think someone so "opinionated" would know what LASTLY MENT!!!!!!! So, LASTLY, no one said anything about her being from canada.......he was talking about the garbage Granholm let them dump here. Pay attention and save your garbage for someone who cares.


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## Scotty G (Sep 27, 2007)

Lastly.........furthermore.........idiot.


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

38chaz said:


> Sounds like their canadian governor ...


So this is strictly a reference to the garbage imports from Canada?

Is that the best you can do is attack my word choices, without looking at the content of what I was saying?

I would think someone who could turn on their computer would also know how to use spellcheck, or let me guess, you "MENT" to misspell meant?

As for the name-calling, perhaps you should get a vacation from AT? Everything between you and I was kosher yesterday as long as we discussed bowhunting and fishing, but the minute I say something you don't want to hear, you get irate? How mature.

LASTLY, If you can't come up with a logical, mature, informed, intelligent response maybe you shouldn't post on here. Or are you one of the closed-minded people that only wants to hear what people have to say so as long as it echos your own closed-minded ideals and convictions?


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## Scotty G (Sep 27, 2007)

Hey Guy......I want to apologize.......I should have held my toungue but let my emotions get the best of me and lashed out.....even if misspelled.......I'm sure you are a great guy, we just think and believe differently. I don't just dislike Granholm exclusively, it's politicians in general. I don't think there are very many that are honest (if any) and don't like the bull they spew just to get elected. I do not wish to continue this and I look forward to talking with you on another thread about what really matter.......BOWHUNTING.
PS. you have to admit the lastly/furthermore thing was funny. At least I thought so. Later.


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

Scotty G said:


> Hey Guy......I want to apologize.......I should have held my toungue but let my emotions get the best of me and lashed out.....even if misspelled.......I'm sure you are a great guy, we just think and believe differently. I don't just dislike Granholm exclusively, it's politicians in general. I don't think there are very many that are honest (if any) and don't like the bull they spew just to get elected. I do not wish to continue this and I look forward to talking with you on another thread about what really matter.......BOWHUNTING.
> PS. you have to admit the lastly/furthermore thing was funny. At least I thought so. Later.


I do agree it was funny 
I do that all the time, cause with me, there's ALWAYS one more thing 

Like I said, this was a discussion, and I try to respect everyone's opinions, as long as they're made in a clear, concise, logical manner. I don't think she's doing a perfect job, but I also firmly feel that politics is always a lesser of two evils situation. I just wish people would be open to seeing BOTH sides of a situation, research why decisions are made before lashing out at an arbitrary figure.

No harm done; just remember we're on here to talk about all aspects of bowhunting and trust me, you won't agree with everyone.

If I'm ever in RC, I'll look ya up and buy ya a :darkbeer:

Have a good one.


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## fubar07 (Aug 21, 2007)

Z-Rider said:


> I say take the govenor and the rest of the Canadian garbage they dump here and send it all back. I can see it happening this way, they raise the tag fees and then less people buy them. Instead they just poach a deer or two and not tag them. Now this could work out in the states favor because if you are caught with an illegally tagged deer or untagged deer it is something like a $1000 minimum fine. Hey they catch just a couple hundred people doing this and there goes the state debt, that is if the money actually goes towards that.
> 
> My opinion is no matter how high they raise the license fees the money is not going to go back into hunting and fishing. She will use it as she feels fit to do.
> I know about 3 years ago Gov. Jenny tried dipping into athe $2,000,000+
> ...




I can't stand Govener Mole face she makes me sick. I am also a lifetime member to MSA and her bullcrap with money from privatly raised orginization. i don't have an issue with paying more for our tags but the money should goto conservation of our hunting lands not to help her budget screw ups!


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## Wolf among dogs (Jan 5, 2007)

ALL of my family except my mother is there...it ALL needs to be investigated..ALL OF IT !! Something is very wrong with that state government..


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## High Octane (Nov 3, 2007)

Michigan has certainly gone down the toilet. I moved away from there 5 years ago at a time when you couldn't even buy a job there and it's worse now. I wouldn't have a problem with raising hunting fess if the hunters actually gained some benefit from it but the all powerful dnr doesn't do a thing and never has. The great lakes are literally drying up and the dnr solution is to prevent dredging of marinas so thes areas can turn into wetlands, which is a pretty name for mosquito infested swamp, That state has multiple problems many people have left because of the economy there and the canadian's solution is to raise taxes on the poor [email protected] who can't get out. I used to be proud to be a michigander now I am proud I'm not.


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## huntinghippie (Dec 31, 2002)

There was a Proposal passed last year guys that stated all license fees are gauranteed to go to the DNR now. What this basically did was allow the legislators to give the DNR less money from the general fund. This didn't give the DNR any more money, just changed where it came from. Also, the budget short falls for the DNR have been well documented and studied. Go to the MI DNR website and read their own document about their financial state. The NRC actually recommened to the DNR years ago to raise their fees. As was stated earlier however, MI legistlators won't vote for raising anything because they are afraid of losing their jobs and not concerned with actually DOING their jobs. Raising fees IS the right thing to do.

BTW... While true that MI does have more hunters paying those fees, they also have WAAAAAAAAY more lands, lakes, and variety of species to manage than a lot of other states. As it is right now, DNR admits that they don't have enough money to monitor the spread of TB much less look at the approach of CWD. Livingston county only has one CO for the entire area but has one of the highest hunter densities because of the large amounts of public lands and farm lands available. Not nearly enough.

If raising the fees from $15 to $30 is enough to make you not hunt, I guess that's your decision but a foolish one IMO. You pay more taking the family out to eat at McDonalds than that deer tag. How about going to the movies? $30 for 3 months worth of hunting is STILL a good deal. As far as the increase bringing on more poaching..... $15 isn't enough to make me a criminal... is it enough for you? Don't think so. If you poached before, you will anyway. This is a bogus excuse.

BTW... the fault for this current disaster with MI DNR lies fully on Engler and his buddy KL Cool's (previous director) doorsteps. They decimated the DNR. Before they took office, the DNR was the strongest department in the state. Through lack of funding and spliting the DNR into 2 divisions (to create the now corrupt DEQ), the DNR's influence is next to nothing. Those 2 are the ones that have caused this. To blame ANY part of the current government is to ignor facts. Now, the current goverment is totally lacking in being able to get anything done and they should ALL be recalled. What a joke they all are.

Raising the fees is the right thing to do. Too bad it probably won't happen because of a bunch of spineless children posing as politicians in Lansing.

Whew...... I'll step off my soapbox now. LOL


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

huntinghippie said:


> If raising the fees from $15 to $30 is enough to make you not hunt, I guess that's your decision but a foolish one IMO. You pay more taking the family out to eat at McDonalds than that deer tag. How about going to the movies? $30 for 3 months worth of hunting is STILL a good deal. As far as the increase bringing on more poaching..... $15 isn't enough to make me a criminal... is it enough for you? Don't think so. If you poached before, you will anyway. This is a bogus excuse.
> 
> Raising the fees is the right thing to do. Too bad it probably won't happen because of a bunch of spineless children posing as politicians in Lansing.


I agree that the rates should be raised. The problems I have with the rate increases are the following:
1. They gutted the senior discount

If you look at the numbers that the NRC put out, you can see that seniors are one of the most active hunting groups, there is a lack of hunters aged 18-40 or so. It makes no sense to charge these people a ton more money. Why not? Because if dad doesn't hunt, grandpa is the only one who is going to take the kids out hunting. If grandpa can't afford it, we lose another generation of hunters and even MORE funding. It also doesn't make sense to charge people living on a pension a lot more, all you are going to do is dissuade them from hunting.

2. A $15 increase isn't going to stop me from buying deer tags. However, I won't purchase my usual lot of small game/fishing/trout stamp/combo deer tag every year. I sometimes don't make it out trout fishing, but I buy the license anyway. I won't do that with the increases. 

The real problem is that it makes it very difficult not for the individual hunter, but for the hunter who wants to get his family out hunting. 15 bucks for a tag is peanuts, but when you consider the fact that I'd like to get my wife and two kids out hunting also, and fishing, and hunting small game.... All the sudden my fees went up hundreds of dollars, not 15. What is the REAL effect going to be? Less people being able to take thier kids out. Less people encouraging thier wives to hunt with them. Grandpa can't afford to hunt/fish with the grandkids anymore. Another generation of kids not interested in hunting or fishing.

These fees the way they have scheduled them are extremely shortsighted and will help kill the hunting tradition in Michigan.

Increase the fees, but charge a fee to hikers, cross-country skiers, or bird-watchers also. Hunters are paying all the fees. Also, there should be a family cap of fees for licenses to encourage families hunting/fishing together. Put the senior discount back in place. Encouraging families to hunt together will have a much greater effect on raising funds than raising fees on the remaining hunters in the state.


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## Slice (Jul 20, 2005)

Maybe we should have all the trail walkers, bird watchers, mushroom pickers, cross country skiers, bikers, horseback riders and all those others who are not paying for the use of the resources pony up some bucks to support it.


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## folpak (Nov 1, 2007)

i was speaking to a friend of mine that is in a hunting club in our area and they were discussing this increase and from what he tells me is that the license fees used to go to a general fund and the DNR was gettin scr*wd like crazy so they passed something mandating that all the liscense fees etc. are used for what they need to be used for ie natural resources. heres some info on whats happening.. http://mucc.org/policy/policyreport/102607action.php
http://www.mucc.org/press/releases/102407-license.php http://www.mucc.org/policy/policyreport/112607action.php


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