# Stabilizers. What is the real story????



## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

OK, I just watched Sergio the Sultan Pagni lay the smack down on Reo and Jesse at indoor world championships with what looks to be nothing more than a 40" Beiter multi rod carbon stabilizer and no side rod. He also made the shoot off at Vegas with this too. Anyone have any thoughts on this???? I do think he shoots a side rod outdoors??? Just don't really remember.


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

World caliber shooter, knows what works for him, knows that may change from time to time!


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

jrdrees said:


> World caliber shooter, knows what works for him, knows that may change from time to time!


 I wish I could take it to be that simple....In a world where a vast majority of the really great shooters are putting pounds of weight on their stabilizers, this total goes against what seems to be the norm today. Of course if Jesse and Reo were shooting just a straight rod, then every one would be doing it?????


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## hooks (Mar 22, 2005)

From 2009
It appears that there is a small weight acting as a "back bar"?

I also noticed that Sergio didn't move his feet.


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## mattiaboero (Feb 18, 2014)

Sergio shoots indoor/outdoor with only a 37" Beiter stabilizer. No side rod, I'm pretty sure that he would not have ever used. Like him in Italy there are many pro archers (like Antonio Tosco) who use only the central stab and some weights near the grip.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

Unclegus said:


> OK, I just watched Sergio the Sultan Pagni lay the smack down on Reo and Jesse at indoor world championships with what looks to be nothing more than a 40" Beiter multi rod carbon stabilizer and no side rod. He also made the shoot off at Vegas with this too. Anyone have any thoughts on this???? I do think he shoots a side rod outdoors??? Just don't really remember.


it's a promise of physics that the heavier something is; the harder it will be to put in motion.
its also a promise of physics that once a body is in motion it will tend to stay in motion
the heavier something is; once moving will want to stay moving and it is harder to stop.

so why does anyone put weights on the rods. To make the bow harder to move.
Why so much weight? the more weight the harder it is to make the bow move. 
(but once it does move it is also harder to stop.)

So a guy like me; that causes a lot of motion during my routine.
I used the weights to cover up the motion.
it worked well until I needed more weight than I could hold or handle.
(Old age is Hell)
So what to do? 
I am in the process of going back and re-learning how to release an arrow without causing all the motion.
hopefully I can get my release mechanism smoother (like the European's) 
where I won't need much weight on the Rods at all, (like the European's)
If I don't generate the motion to begin with, I won't need a lot of weight to cover up what little motion is there.
That's my plan and I'm stickin to it...


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I totally understand the principle about the weight and movement.. And I also understand getting old is hell. Mother nature is a cruel *****.. I just ordered a PSE Phenom that weighs only 4 pounds. That was the only criteria for that decision. I have one ounce of weight on a 34" front rod and 3 oz on a 20 inch side rod on my VE+ and it's really too heavy to shoot all day...... I guess if being a weight lifter is easier than being smooth, then go for it. I've always been a double vanilla wimp that has never shot over 50# so smooth has always been my goal. Just seems like if you could add some weight and also be smooth, that would be an unbeatable combination regardless of what philosophy you have in your part of the world rather than choose between the two...


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

Gus, you might want to try a shorter front bar!


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

Unclegus said:


> I totally understand the principle about the weight and movement.. And I also understand getting old is hell. Mother nature is a cruel *****.. I just ordered a PSE Phenom that weighs only 4 pounds. That was the only criteria for that decision. I have one ounce of weight on a 34" front rod and 3 oz on a 20 inch side rod on my VE+ and it's really too heavy to shoot all day...... I guess if being a weight lifter is easier than being smooth, then go for it. I've always been a double vanilla wimp that has never shot over 50# so smooth has always been my goal. Just seems like if you could add some weight and also be smooth, that would be an unbeatable combination regardless of what philosophy you have in your part of the world rather than choose between the two...


I'm sure the bars the European's use on their bows, take care of all their needs, both Physically and Contractual.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

jwshooter11 said:


> Gus, you might want to try a shorter front bar!


I've thought about that, but right now, I'm just waiting for the PSE. And where were you Saturday??????


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Bees said:


> Contractual.


 I'd just about bet that's the key word in that sentence.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

http://www.bow-international.com/reviews/equipment/stabilisers-made-easy/
Thought this was a very interesting article and may have some bearing on setting up a light mass weight set up by giving directional resistance.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

hrtlnd164 said:


> http://www.bow-international.com/reviews/equipment/stabilisers-made-easy/
> Thought this was a very interesting article and may have some bearing on setting up a light mass weight set up by giving directional resistance.


Excellent article. Thank you for sharing that.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

hrtlnd164 said:


> http://www.bow-international.com/reviews/equipment/stabilisers-made-easy/
> Thought this was a very interesting article and may have some bearing on setting up a light mass weight set up by giving directional resistance.


Yes, Thank you. I learned the benefits of a heavier bow back in the stone age from Frank Pearson, but I just can't do that game anymore. Plus I'm pretty skeptical on all of this have to have stuff that seems like it's supposed to be a matter of life or death to shoot a great score that's on the market today...Regardless of how green this thread makes me look, I just didn't start this game yesterday.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

I have seen a couple of your threads and see the direction you have been forced to go regarding your set ups. When I was reading this article, your situation popped in my mind. I would think a light mass weight rig set up in the more balanced set up would be more prone to "wander", for the lack of better terms. Maybe a resistance based balance would be the ticket. Never hurts to have an alternative approach to things.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

hrtlnd164 said:


> I have seen a couple of your threads and see the direction you have been forced to go regarding your set ups. When I was reading this article, your situation popped in my mind. I would think a light mass weight rig set up in the more balanced set up would be more prone to "wander", for the lack of better terms. Maybe a resistance based balance would be the ticket. Never hurts to have an alternative approach to things.


Thanks much, Mother nature has not been very kind. I've had two heart attacks, but I'm still kicking. Maybe a really old dog CAN learn new tricks???? Again, Thanks for thinking of me....That means a lot to me.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

hrtlnd164 said:


> http://www.bow-international.com/reviews/equipment/stabilisers-made-easy/
> Thought this was a very interesting article and may have some bearing on setting up a light mass weight set up by giving directional resistance.


Hmm, Well it won't take anything to loosen a nut and swing a bar out there and give it a whirl.
nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Bees said:


> Hmm, Well it won't take anything to loosen a nut and swing a bar out there and give it a whirl.
> nothing ventured nothing gained.


I had a very good resistance system set up last winter and I could shoot the heck out of it, only problem was I couldn't shoot it every day and it was fairly light compared to some of the barbell looking stuff you see. After ninety arrows, it was eight hours sleep, a bowl of Wheaties, and at least one day off. This light one I have now on the VE+, works pretty well and I can shoot it pretty much every day. I'm shooting 39# and holding 18, that helps a ton holding steady with bars this light. Sometimes when you're old and weak, you have to make some trade offs. That's what the Phenom is all about. I'm hoping I can add some weight in places where it's needed and still be slightly lighter than I am now.


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## SNAPTHIS (Jan 16, 2003)

UncleGus, Some people would call me old as I shoot Super Senior class in ASA and I can understand where your coming from as mass weight and front weight I have fought with for years. It seems without enough front weight the bow wanders right and left and with enough front weight too keep that from happening the bow bobs up and down and can even change your grip. I've managed to win a bunch of stuff in the last few years but until recently I've never had a handle on balance side to side or front to rear and I had about given up finding a setup that would balance my Hoyt Pro Comp Elite XL and let me shoot as much as I want without wearing me out. I was recently reading a advertisement by Bernie Pellerite about his ultra light barrel shaped front bar and his bar was so much lighter than almost anything else I figured that I would check it out when I went to the Florida ASA. As you already understand the MOI factor, lighter bars that don't flex allow more weight to be put where you need it giving you more control without excess weight. In talking to Bernie in Florida [ he doesn't know me at all ] I just let him tell me his views on stabilizers and I asked him how he would set up my Hoyt, so he says bring me your bow and I'll set it up and you shoot it and if you like it you can buy it and if not we'll just take them off and put my b stingers back on. So I figure I've got nothing to lose [ normally I let no one touch my stuff or make any kind of decisions involving what I shoot ] Bernies only question to me about the setup he was going to do was would I want something heavy, medium, or light I told him that I thought I could shoot a correctly balanced medium weight setup. The setup he put on the bow was about backwards of anything I had ever tried. My setup has been a 36" b-stinger with 3 or 4 ounces out front and ten degrees down and one 15" side bar mounted low with 6,7 or 8 ounces on it. Bernie's setup started at the front bushing with his double adjustable v-bar setup with straight quick disconnects, the front bar is 35 with 3 oz and the 2 side bars are 16" at about 35 or 40 degrees out and down about 45 degrees with 8oz on the right and 6 oz on the left [ im a lefty ]. You would think this bow would be way to heavy but the balance side to side and front to back has the bow setting slightly nose up if you grab the bow with two fingers in the throat and stands perfectly vertical. When you draw the bow the bubble works to center on its own on level ground and needs only slight help even on the worst stances. The best part is the hold and the lack of reaction as I work through my shot process and at the break of the shot the bow just sits there which really suits me. My shrewd v-bar arrangement weighed 10 oz Bernies equivilent weighs 5 oz and has teeth to help it keep from moving that 5 oz diff. coupled with the much lighter bars offset all the extra weight on the back bars. I take the bow out to the practice bags at forty yards and break 2 arrows in four shots go back in the building and pay for the setup. I badly misjudged one target in Florida for a five, shot 403 for the weekend and 408 won the event. In Ft. Benning at this weekends ASA I shot 15 twelves one poorly judged 5 again and came in second with 417 for the weekend and once again lost the tournament to a 422, that being said I'm completely happy with my new setup and I would never have even tried to set it up the way Bernie did so even old dogs can learn new tricks if you have an open mind. Good luck finding a setup that suits you sorry this is soooooo long. Mark Trombley


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Thanks for the heads up. I'll talk to Uncle Bernie when I get to Louisville in a couple of weeks...


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