# Lone Wolf/Muddy Climbing stick wall thickness question



## Hoosier bowman (Jan 10, 2010)

Lone Wolf sticks are just about 5/32" thick. That's right between 1/8" and 3/16". 

I don't know about Muddy.


----------



## loucamp263 (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks Hoosier bowman, I think I will try 1/8" wall. It should be more than strong enough.

If anyone has any other info/comments/suggestions I would love to hear them.


----------



## donn92 (Apr 15, 2009)

I dont know about the lone wolf but I am a welder and I made mine out of steel tubbing got enough steel to build 40 feet of sticks for 50 dollars I looked at getting aluminum and for a 25 foot pieace of 1/8 inch was gonna cost 40 dollars


----------



## loucamp263 (Nov 13, 2009)

I get the money thing. My goal is three fold.
1) Make a light set of carry in/carry out sticks. I can make a set of (4) 3 step, 40" sticks that will get me 18' min (really, not like (4) 20" sticks. I still haven't figured out the math on them) at around 10# with folding steps. I'm getting too old to carry a heavy climber or sticks in and out any more.
2) Spend less than $50 for a set verses $150 for the store bought kind.
3) I can say I made them myself.
Hopefully, by the grace of God, it will all come together. If it does, I'll post some pics. I think I'm at least a month away still.


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

I look forward to seeing pictures when you do get them done!


----------



## tankdogg60 (Aug 1, 2005)

I have known people to have Muddy sticks break on them for being too thin.


----------



## CAnderson2 (Oct 27, 2011)

I would go with the 3/16 wall thickness, which is what I have on order now myself. 
I did the stress test on my CAD program and with using the 1/8 wall and 5/16 bolts. Going through both sides of the tube and using a washer and lock nut and the step on one side like the LW sticks. The 1/8 wall holds fine under constant pressure, but can't take any more then a 300# force without stressing. So if you slip and fall onto one step and you weigh 200# you put a 600# force on that step, which could lead to a break in the tubing. That doesn't mean it will break completely, but it will strain the tubing and weaken it. 
However the 3/16 wall could take a 600# force and not reach critical stress levels.
Just FYI
And a 20' section of 1x1x.13" 6061 weighs 10.5#, where 1x1x.19" 6061 weighs 14.5#.
Not much of a difference really.

Here's my build with steel, and yes they are heavier then I would like, but that's what I had on hand.http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1791076

What does your brackets that go from the bar to the tree look like? I'd like to do some like the LW sticks but that's a big chunk of aluminum to use.


----------



## CAnderson2 (Oct 27, 2011)

Here's the result with 1/8 wall.







The arrows above the red hole is where the hole started before the force.


----------



## loucamp263 (Nov 13, 2009)

CAnderson2 said:


> I would go with the 3/16 wall thickness, which is what I have on order now myself.
> I did the stress test on my CAD program and with using the 1/8 wall and 5/16 bolts. Going through both sides of the tube and using a washer and lock nut and the step on one side like the LW sticks. The 1/8 wall holds fine under constant pressure, but can't take any more then a 300# force without stressing. So if you slip and fall onto one step and you weigh 200# you put a 600# force on that step, which could lead to a break in the tubing. That doesn't mean it will break completely, but it will strain the tubing and weaken it.
> However the 3/16 wall could take a 600# force and not reach critical stress levels.
> Just FYI
> ...


Thanks CAnderson2. Awesome to have some CAD help on the stresses involved in the working load. I am still completely in the idea stage but I am going to try sheet aluminum for the brackets. IF all goes well I will put together a stick in the next week (alpha version) just to see if it makes sense. I have not seen 3/16 wall 1" square aluminum. I'll look around for some, and compare $$ too.


----------



## CAnderson2 (Oct 27, 2011)

I would like to see your final production once its done!!


----------



## Jmoore12 (Mar 19, 2012)

Thinking about doing that exact thing. I have a bunch of 3/16 laying around. The concept I have in mind is very simple too. Keep us updated.


----------



## OrangeBlood (Jan 12, 2009)

any updates to this thread, I'm interested...


----------



## letsgobowhuntin (Aug 4, 2009)

I just bought ansetnofnLW and they are pretty simple. I plan to make anothe set using 1/8 inch. I will make my own steps and versa buttons. I will also go with the rope system that was recently posted. I will skip the plastic end caps.


----------



## loucamp263 (Nov 13, 2009)

Here's some pics of the "start" of my sticks. Version 1, Alpha version, first pass, call it what you want. Screws are just holding the pieces together, not what will end up in them. Materials are all what I could find lying around. Minimal amount of labor in pieces, just for concept purposes. I already see a bunch of stuff I need to do different. Still haven't decided what to do about attaching it to a tree. Suggestions?? Super light but the thicker wall tubing will add about a pound each. Still will be less than 2.5# each. Comments (good, bad or otherwise) always welcome. Thanks for the interest.


----------



## letsgobowhuntin (Aug 4, 2009)

If you stick with the step design you deffinetally need to add some sort of grooves for traction. How much weight will this need to hold?


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

I would install the Lone Wolf versa buttons and use their straps as well to attach them to the tree.


----------



## Jmoore12 (Mar 19, 2012)

Something I came up with. They weigh in at 4 pds a piece. Simple but effective. I tried using a similar setup with the steps out of angle iron (steel not aluminum) And I didnt have any angle iron thick enough to take my weight (180) without bending. Will be interested if the aluminum holds up or not.


----------



## jacobmhd (Dec 2, 2008)

loucamp263 said:


> Here's some pics of the "start" of my sticks. Version 1, Alpha version, first pass, call it what you want. Screws are just holding the pieces together, not what will end up in them. Materials are all what I could find lying around. Minimal amount of labor in pieces, just for concept purposes. I already see a bunch of stuff I need to do different. Still haven't decided what to do about attaching it to a tree. Suggestions?? Super light but the thicker wall tubing will add about a pound each. Still will be less than 2.5# each. Comments (good, bad or otherwise) always welcome. Thanks for the interest.
> View attachment 1450896
> View attachment 1450897
> View attachment 1450899
> View attachment 1450901


What would you do differently? I really like the simplicity of this design. I don't want to put a lot of labor into a set of sticks making intricate cuts. Thanks for the insight. Hoping ot make a set in the next two weeks.


----------



## loucamp263 (Nov 13, 2009)

Sorry guys, this post has been temporarily postponed for hunting season. Not enough venison in the freezer = not enough time to play with toys.
I do have a new template for the standoffs to get the stick further away from the tree. I will also be adding "grooves" to the steps and standoffs. I actually climbed with this stick with the .060 wall tubing, nervously but sturdily. (I'm 170#) Once I got more comfortable I hung it just off the ground and bounced on the steps. Nothing broke, bent or twisted. Next version will use .125" wall tubing. Ropes will be used to hold the sticks to a tree. Won't use versa buttons but not sure what I will come up with yet. More to come in the next month or so as I can make time.

P.S.: Nice job Jmoore!! :thumbs_up


----------



## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

loucamp263 said:


> Sorry guys, this post has been temporarily postponed for hunting season. Not enough venison in the freezer = not enough time to play with toys.
> I do have a new template for the standoffs to get the stick further away from the tree. I will also be adding "grooves" to the steps and standoffs. I actually climbed with this stick with the .060 wall tubing, nervously but sturdily. (I'm 170#) Once I got more comfortable I hung it just off the ground and bounced on the steps. Nothing broke, bent or twisted. Next version will use .125" wall tubing. Ropes will be used to hold the sticks to a tree. Won't use versa buttons but not sure what I will come up with yet. More to come in the next month or so as I can make time.
> 
> P.S.: Nice job Jmoore!! :thumbs_up


 aluminum is soft ..It would need to be hardened to be safe.. becareful great Idea Tho


----------



## tim1676 (Nov 13, 2009)

I would definately find someome with an FEA program(Ansys or something similar) and run a stress analysis on your final design modeled just as your going to build it. Just from looking at your prototype, I would guess the tube wall thickness is way to light and I don't know about the step design either. But again a FEA simulation would tell you everything you need before you put something together that might fail in the woods.


----------



## maximus4444 (May 27, 2011)

Does anyone know the type of aluminum used for the Lone Wolf Climbing Sticks?


----------



## deerhunter0709 (Feb 27, 2011)

iv got a few questions as well. I'm thinking about using 1-1.5" square tubing at 3/16"-1/4" thickness for the vertical pieces and possibly using 5/8" rebar for the steps by welding 1' pieces of rebar horizontally to the square tubing. My question is does anyone know if the 5/8" rebar will be strong enough to not bend/break when I step on them?


----------

