# things in 3d that i dont like



## PSE Kid (Nov 22, 2008)

ill get it started, you guys add in.

one thing i dont like is people that put their quiver on their bow for a 3d shoot, i dont like it when people say, well, it would kill it, i also dont like it when people that shoot like crap with a hunting setup say that they dont have great scores because of their setup. drives me nuts.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

I dont like people who push the pencil at 3D


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## solocam9696 (Oct 12, 2008)

A really easy course to shoot make it a challenge.


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

Pencil pushers
&
Whiners


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

pencil pushers and butt holes that try to change the rules cause that cant win.
GPPA has there fill of them.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

People who think you can buy wins with equipment or think other people win because of their equipment.


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm wondering if a pencil pusher is anything like, poor sportsmen, or being a liar, and a cheat to try and win. I don't like any of those. I don't think they do either, unless it's them doing it.


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

I don't like the people that whine about losing arrows on a course with a max of 40 yards, with the 40 yard targets being elk and bison, because the club doesn't have back stops. We could set up a lot more challenging course if it wasn't for this


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## DBiggers (Nov 17, 2006)

I hate it when someone stands at the stake for 5 minutes with their bino's up, then down, then up, then down, then up again. Bobbing up and down, then left and right, rinse and repeat...:chortle:. Then stand there at full draw for a full minute, then let down.....the group saying in unisance, "good shot" :crazy:....then comes to full draw again, only to shoot a rediculous 5....:doh:

Thats my little pet peeve....:smile:


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## Mikie Day (Oct 21, 2002)

clickers...hate em...its fine to glass the target before you shoot...but after you shoot there is no need to pull those glasses up and take a 2nd or 3rd look...that makes me want to swat them in the back of the head with a rock...RUDE! I mean your holding up the whole place and Im guessing your stupid enough to think that maybe the arrow wont be there when you go to score it..


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## Bird Dogg (Aug 18, 2009)

the golfer... the same guy who plays golf, walks around the green, analyzes the contour of the grass. looks down his putter ten times and still 3 puts, then goes to a 3d shoot... stares at target forever, glasses several times, draw, let down, draw, let down.. stare , stare, draw.. and FIVE......Everyone says that your first guess is the right one, anyway... just shoot it.


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## nodarkside4me (Dec 30, 2008)

I do not shoot with BOBBERS they drive me nuts i start to give them advice like IT HASNT MOVED SINCE YOU GLASS IT THE FIRST TIME.AND HEY IT STILL THERE. they dont like me either I dont know why Also i set up alot of 3Ds and it takes alot of work.It never fails to get that one or two guys that COMPLAIN :angry: that just put me over the edge IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT DO NOT COME BACK!!!!!! :smile:


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I hate that the IBO let's anybody shoot together at big events! You will never beat the buddy system!!


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## Josh_Putman (Jun 18, 2004)

DBiggers said:


> then let down.....the group saying in unisance, "good shot" :crazy::


Never understood this either. If you let down, it's not a shot!


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## Skeeterbait (Feb 13, 2009)

People that have no idea of the rules that are covering the shoot there attending(IBO,ASA,NFAA), Ask at sign up what governing rule for the shooot.

Then we have,
Guys that know the rules and try to get away by bending or not abiding by them to increase thier score or decrease someone else's score.
Pencil pushers. 
Score callers that think if it's 1/32nd to the line it's touching, or touching (pushing) arrows before scoring, pulling as they score.
Bino guy that glasses after the shot at the stake.
Arrow pullers that try and bend your arrows in half before pulling them. (Maybe not in half)
Guys that take more than 2 mins at the stake or try and excide the three let down rule. 
Guys that try and shoot in the BHFS class with equipment for open class
Guys that don't like to rotate first up shooter because someone might hit thier arrow.

Print out the rules and know them, if you see something not right call them on it, if they didn't know educate them on the rules.

I don't mind hunters that come out and goes for the heart shots it makes them better, I use to do that till I had a shirt handed to then I was expected to go for score and to know what was going on in this sport.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Dont like shoots that dont seperate shooters. Solve the pencil pushing by doing shotgun shoots.

Most the time we just shoot for practice because your not going to beat those pencil pushers other wise.
DB


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

I agree DB bust the groups


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

I don't like how much practice it takes to stay on top
I don't like how people whine when they lose
I quit shooting 3D because I spent to much money shooting something that don't bleed and you can't eat them


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

Wow it looks like there isn't much to like about 3d I don't think I'll ever try that game now.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

People that belittle others because of the class they shoot in. Some seem to think that bowhunter classes are beneath them. Also those that do not realize we are all there for the same reason, we love to shoot archery, quit bickering and respect one another!


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

3Dblackncamo said:


> I dont like people who push the pencil at 3D


this. i shot with a guy one time that shot like crap. then he went back out my himself and next thing you know his scores are higher then the winners??? that round didnt count but i just dont believe him.

i hate when theres a large group and they sit there and talk and take for ever to shoot. then the guys that act like snobs if you try and talk to him.

thats about it


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> Dont like shoots that dont seperate shooters. Solve the pencil pushing by doing shotgun shoots.
> 
> Most the time we just shoot for practice because your not going to beat those pencil pushers other wise.
> DB


it would be a great idea to pick groups at random. get rid of the budy system


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## DBiggers (Nov 17, 2006)

VeroShooter said:


> Wow it looks like there isn't much to like about 3d I don't think I'll ever try that game now.


You know, you are so right. I'm obviously guilty myself from the post i made to this thread. I think it should have been titled, "The things I* Like* about 3-D". Its so funny how easy it is to comment on the negitive rather than the positive. However, that would be hijacking the OP's thread and i guess we can't do that. It's funny to see that a lot of us have the same pet peeves about issues concerning 3-D events, but i can tell you that i'd have more positive things to say about 3-D than negitive.....:thumbs_up.


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## 1Hammerhead (Mar 26, 2008)

Marked yardage , orange spots and guys that won't even try unmarked because they are afraid to loose. If you cant judge yardage agianst foam don't hunt


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

I'm not real sure about the buddy system thing .I shoot with my good friends and they dont give an inch on line calls .We have a great time and get on one another hard if you make a bad shot .It's all in fun 3d is a great sport ,you do need to try it .
One thing I dont like is experienced archers shooting in the novice class.You look at there scores and they shoot 40+up there not novices .


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## DBiggers (Nov 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted by Daniel Boone
> Dont like shoots that dont seperate shooters. Solve the pencil pushing by doing shotgun shoots. Most the time we just shoot for practice because your not going to beat those pencil pushers other wise.
> DB





sawtoothscream said:


> it would be a great idea to pick groups at random. get rid of the budy system


*As an officer of our local club, it would be nice to group shooters, but it'd never work. You have to remember that our 3-D shoots are meant to be a place to have fun and practice. The shooters we get come to our club so they can hang out with their buddies, gamble a little bit as to who is going to spank who's ass, or we get the die-hards that are simply there to practice for the upcoming ASA's/IBO's. Then we have the die-hard hunters that want to keep their skills finely honed for the upcoming turkey hunts and will shoot clear through summer to the following deer season. Then we have the beginners, they just want to come and shoot a little bit, maybe meet some nice friendly people, in hopes of learning the 3-D game. Grouping people simply will not work for all these reasons. If some people would just have enough honor and respect for themselves and others, as to not cheat, then they'd realize that the little plastic trophy isn't worth your self-respect. One other thing, no one really gives a big whoop at how well you shoot these local tournaments anyway, if you want to make a name for yourself, than have a good showing at the national events. Then you'll have people talking about you, so chill out and have fun....That's another dose of my .02 cents worth....:wink:*


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

VeroShooter said:


> Wow it looks like there isn't much to like about 3d I don't think I'll ever try that game now.


Dont blame you this doesnt look like fun at all


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## nitroteam (Jun 27, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> Dont blame you this doesnt look like fun at all




Those look like fun to me. 
That's whatnum talking about. A challenge.


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

DBiggers said:


> *As an officer of our local club, it would be nice to group shooters, but it'd never work. You have to remember that our 3-D shoots are meant to be a place to have fun and practice. The shooters we get come to our club so they can hang out with their buddies, gamble a little bit as to who is going to spank who's ass, or we get the die-hards that are simply there to practice for the upcoming ASA's/IBO's. Then we have the die-hard hunters that want to keep their skills finely honed for the upcoming turkey hunts and will shoot clear through summer to the following deer season. Then we have the beginners, they just want to come and shoot a little bit, maybe meet some nice friendly people, in hopes of learning the 3-D game. Grouping people simply will not work for all these reasons. If some people would just have enough honor and respect for themselves and others, as to not cheat, then they'd realize that the little plastic trophy isn't worth your self-respect. One other thing, no one really gives a big whoop at how well you shoot these local tournaments anyway, if you want to make a name for yourself, than have a good showing at the national events. Then you'll have people talking about you, so chill out and have fun....That's another dose of my .02 cents worth....:wink:*


I also help set up courses. Areas around the U.S. are different so not everything works everywhere.

But the one thing that really gets me more than anything, (and there is a big stink about it around here right now) is, if it is just for fun then don't give out awards. Do not call it a 3D tournament. Just simply call it a "Fun Shoot". They have a state shooter of the year and even a state champion each year in an area where they ignore things that people are telling them and responding by saying it is all just for fun.

Don't have awards, don't turn in scores if it is just for fun.

Once you have awards, prizes, or, championships, it is no longer just for fun.


At the club I belong to , we pay attention to when people accuse others of cheating. I (actually myself and another guy) have actually went out onto the course before and watched a guy that was supposed to be cheating. Watched him shoot several targets out in the open. We stayed with the group behind them and was talking and watching. Wrote down the taget # and the score we seen him shoot. If it was close and we could not tell from a distance (with binos) we did not score them. Funny. Out of 4 we could absolutely see (kinda hard to mistake an 8 for a 12), he turned in higher scores. 

This guy was always at the top, along with his pals. Next few shoots, the event holders busted up his group. Funny thing is, he went from shooting 20-30 up to shooting 30-40 down.



Point is, if clubs do not listen to valid complaints. Attendance will fall. Then all you have is the guys that want to sit around and gamble or just spend time with friends.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

I love 3D! There are some things with this sport you have to deal with. 
I think people are to quick to call someone a cheater. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Anybody can shoot out of their comfort zone. I'm sure there are some extreme cases but in general the term pencil pusher and cheater are thrown around to easily.


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## Double B (Feb 20, 2007)

A know it all who tries to give you advice on everything your doing wrong, even when you beat him you still did it wrong


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## TN- archerychic (Jun 4, 2007)

VeroShooter said:


> Wow it looks like there isn't much to like about 3d I don't think I'll ever try that game now.


I was just thinking the same thing....


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## DBiggers (Nov 17, 2006)

asa1485 said:


> I also help set up courses. Areas around the U.S. are different so not everything works everywhere.
> 
> But the one thing that really gets me more than anything, (and there is a big stink about it around here right now) is, if it is just for fun then don't give out awards. Do not call it a 3D tournament. Just simply call it a "Fun Shoot". They have a state shooter of the year and even a state champion each year in an area where they ignore things that people are telling them and responding by saying it is all just for fun.
> 
> ...


*Oh dude, their is a big difference between, "Shooting for fun" and "Having fun Shooting". I meant having fun shooting. I understand its a competition, but its not the kind of competition to get all bent out of shape over. This year our club is having a male and female shooter of the year, with a cash prize at the end. That alone is going to bring in the more serious shooters and we will be keeping a special watch out for those who's pencils are sharper than their shooting is. We're also going to have roving range officials to address any concerns such as cheating or any other issues that may arise. We're serious about the rules that we've have laid down, but we're equally concerned about our shooters having fun while they're here. It will be impossibe to please everyone, but we're damn sure going to try. Which brings me to another one of my pet peeves, the people that don't know the difference.*


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, if you don't like something you don't get it straightened out here. If a member of a club, bring it up in a meeting. Valid complaint and the Officer won't correct the situation, elect new Officers. Bust up a group of friends and that club will have a empty range. Otherwise, it sounds more just a bunch that want to whine here. Want better input, define what 3D division you want issues with, local clubs or the national circuit.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

I have to agree with those posting about the "target" shooters who hold everything up. I think such people have contributed highly to the drop in attendence over the last few years in many places. On the other hand there are a lot of guys who complain about being held up simply because they are "just practicing for hunting". I hate to bust any bubbles but 3D shooting has little or nothing to do with hunting. It is a form of target shooting in it's own right. Just doesn't have a marked bullseye and known yardage (in most cases).

Here where I live we participate in a winter league with four other clubs. Due to the "IBO" shooters wanting longer yardages we put in 45 yard stakes a couple years ago. Guess what? Only a couple of these guys even showed up last year. The end result was that we lost a lot of the average Joes that didn't want to be held up. Then there were a few cheaters and of course, the buddy groups. This year we changed the rules. It's now a fun shoot. 35 yard Max. No rules other than follow the course. No equipment rules--shoot what ya brung. Range finders---use one if you like. No awards. Now it's shoot for fun.

A lot of those who showed up for the first shoot are complaining. Removing any form of competition may not have been the wisest move. We have 14 more weeks to go through and keep getting feedback. We can always change the rules for next year, but the fact remains there are always going to be those who are not satisfied. Maybe we could put heaters at each shooting stake or something. It's not always total fun shooting in 20 to 30 degree weather with 20 mph winds, but it beats sitting at home.


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## EnglishKev (Aug 8, 2009)

PSE Kid said:


> ill get it started, you guys add in.
> 
> one thing i dont like is people that put their quiver on their bow for a 3d shoot, i dont like it when people say, well, it would kill it, i also dont like it when people that shoot like crap with a hunting setup say that they dont have great scores because of their setup. drives me nuts.


Guess I am going to say sorry, 'cos I do that, I can't stand having a quiver full of arrows flapping around my waist getting in the damn way.
On the same subject, why are people walking around when the shoot has been finished an hour past, STILL wearing their quivers. :angry:

Kev


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## Mikie Day (Oct 21, 2002)

at one of the ranges I shoot at , if they are having a trophy shoot a group of buddies can shoot together but the club assigns a score keeper that scores it all before they pull arrows...works great


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## mtelknut (Jun 25, 2009)

All of the above but the biggest thing that irks me the most is when a group of so-called-expert-wantabees hold up 5 and 6 groups behind them and won't let you play through. Also when people pull arrows come on guys it's not rocket science if it's not touching the line in the first 30 seconds of looking it's not going to change in the next 5 minutes so pull the darn thing and go on to the next target... done ranting.. Merry Christmas.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

DBiggers said:


> *As an officer of our local club, it would be nice to group shooters, but it'd never work. You have to remember that our 3-D shoots are meant to be a place to have fun and practice. The shooters we get come to our club so they can hang out with their buddies, gamble a little bit as to who is going to spank who's ass, or we get the die-hards that are simply there to practice for the upcoming ASA's/IBO's. Then we have the die-hard hunters that want to keep their skills finely honed for the upcoming turkey hunts and will shoot clear through summer to the following deer season. Then we have the beginners, they just want to come and shoot a little bit, maybe meet some nice friendly people, in hopes of learning the 3-D game. Grouping people simply will not work for all these reasons. If some people would just have enough honor and respect for themselves and others, as to not cheat, then they'd realize that the little plastic trophy isn't worth your self-respect. One other thing, no one really gives a big whoop at how well you shoot these local tournaments anyway, if you want to make a name for yourself, than have a good showing at the national events. Then you'll have people talking about you, so chill out and have fun....That's another dose of my .02 cents worth....:wink:*


Mr Biggers
One of Oklahomas most successfull clubs ever had a shot gun start shoot on Sundays and you drew who you shot with. You always meet new archers and the club grew from everyone meeting each other whether it be women or children you shot with. No big prize awards. Just good fun.

Now myself was talking about ASA qaulifiers and tournament shooter type shoots which Oklahoma has more than most states other than Texas. 

But you are most likely right that for most clubs keep it simple and targets close for the average joe archer. Have classes from A to c and you will draw more shooters. Keeps awards simple and cost down if you want to draw large numbers. Who cares if they win I beg to differ. Most do enjoy winning there class and will come back if successful.

I have ran clubs for many years and have seen it all in 25 yrs of shooting 3d. Being successful takes members and those willing to build a club. Today Oklahoma clubs have learned to cater to ever style of archer with different stakes. We grow in numbers for several years now and must be doing alot right when I hear other states that 3d suffering in numbers.

If your not doing it for fun quit. They day I don't shoot archer for fun, I will quit. Its what I teach ever new archer and was taught to me by my friend Dean Pridgean who was one of the best ever.
DB
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

mtelknut said:


> All of the above but the biggest thing that irks me the most is when a group of so-called-expert-wantabees hold up 5 and 6 groups behind them and won't let you play through. Also when people pull arrows come on guys it's not rocket science if it's not touching the line in the first 30 seconds of looking it's not going to change in the next 5 minutes so pull the darn thing and go on to the next target... done ranting.. Merry Christmas.


That should not happen. Often we shoot in a group of five but we always allow folks to shoot through always.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Well, if you don't like something you don't get it straightened out here. If a member of a club, bring it up in a meeting. Valid complaint and the Officer won't correct the situation, elect new Officers. Bust up a group of friends and that club will have a empty range. Otherwise, it sounds more just a bunch that want to whine here. Want better input, define what 3D division you want issues with, local clubs or the national circuit.


Very well said Sonny. Thats why its a club. Let everyone have there say and respect each members opionion. Sad but true its usually a few who do all the work in most clubs.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

nitroteam said:


> Those look like fun to me.
> That's whatnum talking about. A challenge.


Nitroteam I take thousands of picture each year and there no better way to promote new shooters into this sport. You wont believe how many say or pm me to say I tried this from seeing your pictures. Young, old, women, or children there something for everyone. I try to make memorys in my pictures. I could care less if your novice or pro, this sport has a place for everyone and is what makes it great.:thumbs_up


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

More thought. I've been shooting 3D since late 1999. I've had so much fun, had so many enjoybable experiences, met so many people, learned so much, why should I fret about a few bumps in the road?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> More thought. I've been shooting 3D since late 1999. I've had so much fun, had so many enjoybable experiences, met so many people, learned so much, why should I fret about a few bumps in the road?


I have been shooting sense early 1980. Starting using paper targets., not really 3d then. Remember when folks were saying 3d wouldn't survive. Always a few bumps and you cant please everyone in a club. Well the best thing I ever did for my archery was join a club for 3d.
DB


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Hey DB, those pics sure are getting me in the mood! haha..............But really, they are! Just wish I had more time to shoot.


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## KingRanchFreak (Dec 8, 2010)

The one complaint I have about shooting 3D is the targets that are so shot up that you cant see rings from 20-30 yards away


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

PSE Kid said:


> ... ill get it started, you guys add in.
> ... i dont like is people that put their quiver on their bow for a 3d shoot



I don't like it when people show up at 3-D events and complain before I take my shot, about the "quiver on my bow".

:deadhorse


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## Pat Bischoff (Jun 22, 2004)

The only problem I have is people who take too long at the stake.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

dw'struth said:


> Hey DB, those pics sure are getting me in the mood! haha..............But really, they are! Just wish I had more time to shoot.


I think several here are ready to hit the 3d range. I know I am. 
DB


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## safe cracker (Sep 28, 2009)

my problem is the chair shooter they take forever to shoot.....
but the fun times are when we take our grandsons and spend the day shooting. and after our shoots they hang around and help clean up and tell you where to set what animal next time....


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## lojo (Mar 13, 2009)

Everything about 3d shooting is fun to me. I've never, ever shot in a local tournament in which groups taking longer would not let you shoot through. I love the fun, the good sportsmanship that everyone exhibits, and getting to meet new people. A lot of the "pet peeves" I've read on here should be called petty. Some people are just grumpy. Whether you have your quiver on your bow, on your hip, or carry arrows in your stool shouldn't matter to anyone else. It's what works best for each individual. The ones who have so many pet peeves are making themselves miserable. I will shoot by the rules and with whatever works best for me, not to satisfy someone else and make their little pettiness go away. The joy I find in shooting will not be diminished by those who obviously would rather complain than have fun. I appreciate all the hard work that goes into setting up a range and running a shoot. As for legitimate gripes (possible cheaters), address the issues and move on.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Really, you all KNEW this was coming....BUT....whatever you might think, I indeed DO LIKE 3-D, when things are run according to the rules...with one "rule" exception, or is it just an accepted "practice"??? And, I'll bet you can guess what THAT one is, haha.

1. LACK of enforcement of the TIME rule for a shooter at the stake. You cannot depend upon "peer enforcement" of the time limit rule. ONE person in the group tries this and he is a pariah! By golly, if it is 2 minutes...it is TWO minutes...and enforced across the board..>Pro, big name shooters or not. If it is ONE minute, then by darned, it is ONE minute. ENFORCE THE BLOOMING RULE...or get rid of it. I also hated standing around waiting forever between shots.....to me one shot every 25 minutes is NOT my way of enjoying archery. More time spent jawing and kibitzing than shooting just isn't my bag. I'm out there to shoot arrows, and practice my FORM/shooting prowess, not to see if I can out 'brag' or out do the other shooters by offering up the biggest line of BS, hahaha

2. The use of golf umbrellas to break the wind for the shooter at the stake. This is ridiculous. You are OUTDOORS, and the elements, including the wind, are part of the game. I don't have a problem with shading the peep so the shooter can SEE the target...we've done that for years on field courses, although only thru the use of a baseball cap, and not a 3' or 4' golf umbrella. I also have mixed emotions on the umbie for rain shielding. However, the use of the umbie for allowing a shooter to be shielded from the WIND is ludicrous and IMHO, should be outlawed.
3. I, too, hate pencil pushers, or "ringer groups" from "teams" that go out and shoot the courses first, and then tell their higher level compatriots through discussions, or signals, the yardages they encountered; especially on the tougher shots.
4. Announcing in advance the 20 targets that will be used for the year on the courses. IMHO, if there are 60 different targets, then ANY of those should be used at any time or place, in any order....The association should NOT be announcing that only a certain 20 will be used for that year. It is akin to giving the students an exact copy of the test in school...do they really LEARN anything, or is it only that they learn the TEST...and subsequently, if you turn around and give them a "variant" they fail it? Those with the money to purchase the set of 20 for the season sure have a distinct advantage...among other things. Mix those targets up by using ALL of them in differing orders and among the tournaments...and let's see if the yardage gurus can remember ALL of the 60 or so that are available and could be used at any time, place, or tournament?

I will not, however, say that 3-D isn't a great game and a heckuva lot of fun.. Would I ever give up field shooting or indoors and go exclusively 3-D...NO WAY IN THIS LIFE!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

field14 said:


> Really, you all KNEW this was coming....BUT....whatever you might think, I indeed DO LIKE 3-D, when things are run according to the rules...with one "rule" exception, or is it just an accepted "practice"??? And, I'll bet you can guess what THAT one is, haha.
> 
> 1. LACK of enforcement of the TIME rule for a shooter at the stake. You cannot depend upon "peer enforcement" of the time limit rule. ONE person in the group tries this and he is a pariah! By golly, if it is 2 minutes...it is TWO minutes...and enforced across the board..>Pro, big name shooters or not. If it is ONE minute, then by darned, it is ONE minute. ENFORCE THE BLOOMING RULE...or get rid of it. I also hated standing around waiting forever between shots.....to me one shot every 25 minutes is NOT my way of enjoying archery. More time spent jawing and kibitzing than shooting just isn't my bag. I'm out there to shoot arrows, and practice my FORM/shooting prowess, not to see if I can out 'brag' or out do the other shooters by offering up the biggest line of BS, hahaha
> 
> ...


Still the number one event in the US and still popular. Keeps growing and growing. Keep chasing those spots and realize how many just wont ever shoot spots because it boring. 3d no two shots are ever alike.
DB


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Daniel Boone said:


> Still the number one event in the US and still popular. Keeps growing and growing. Keep chasing those spots and realize how many just wont ever shoot spots because it boring. 3d no two shots are ever alike.
> DB


Beg to differ, DB, but show me the statistics that 3-D "keeps growing and growing"?????

When you say, "no two shots are ever alike", do you mean on the course, or do you also mean,"many (not all) of those that are shooting ONLY 3-D cannot "shoot two shots in a row the same?""" hahahahaha.

Boring? Maybe for the casual shooter. But name even ONE shooter that NEVER MISSES THE X-ring indoors? By this, name ONE that has NEVER missed an X-ring no matter how long they've been shooting? I guess it is how you look at it, but you and I both know it is exceptionally difficult for MOST shooters to replicate those shots and do it 5 times in a row, or 3 times in a row (indoors) for 12 ends or 10 ends. Then, get out on ANY field course, and once again, like you say, NO TWO SHOTS are ever the same (meaning "targets")....Conditions outdoors change during the course of a round, and sometimes even during the course of the 4 shots on a field/hunter round target.

Much more difficult to shoot FOUR shots per target and score a perfect "20" than it is to shoot ONE shot every 25 minutes and get a "10" or a "12", IMHO. Much more difficult to shoot that 560 when there are 112 shots, varying in distance from 20 feet thru 80 yards, with uphill, downhill, light, dark, windy, shady, and uneven footing with the side-hill and uphill/downhill variants thrown in. Then, the 112 shots are normally completed in 4-5 hours....while in 3-D, it can take 7 hours on the course to shoot only 40 shots.

But you and I will never agree on those issues.

3-D is indeed a hoot...but as I indicated above...those items I listed keep me away from it on a SERIOUS competitive nature. But, OMG, is 3-D a fun thing to do when there isn't anything else going on from the perspective of a FIELD or TARGET event outdoors...AND....no decent bicycle tour/ride to go on, ha.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

What statistics you want. Numbers in ASA don't lie. They actually grew in a down economy in pro ams. Known yardage class growing in amatuers. Im sure it helped.

My state ASA had another record attendance as did Texas. Been shooting it for 25 yrs and still my number one love. 

Fields dead in the southern states and indoor right there as well. My club did have a good year last year in indoor.

3d aint going anywhere in my state. If anything we got to many shoots ever weekend and clubs which sometimes hurts over all attendance at shoots here. 
DB


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Most of what I've read has shown the ASA growing only SLIGHTLY and IBO down in most areas.

Indoors, in MOST areas of this country is accelerating. Over 1500 at Vegas, and over 1100 at NFAA Indoor Nationals, not to mention the other shoots, such as Lancaster's. Of course, it is hard to compare, since INDOOR events are NOT come in and start when you want to, so MOST indoor facilities have to limit themselves to the number of lanes and how many lines they can run in a day....thus the comparision between the indoor local and sectionals when compared to outdoor 3-D isn't apples to apples.

Same with field/hunter....shotgun starts, people assigned to different targets, and group busting is the norm. Most field/hunter tournaments are also not a "show and go" like most 3-D events are, so again, can't compare apples to apples there either; other than the numbers showing up.

There is an on-going trend that field is making a come-back as many are realizing the challenges unique to field shooting and the fact they get to shoot LOTS of arrows in a round, instead of spending more time talking and waiting rather than shooting arrows.

Either venue is OK (with those exceptions I posted earlier today), and people are going to go where they have to spend the least amount of time practicing/preparing, and where it is "easier" on their psyche and mental attitude.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## MrPibb (Apr 10, 2004)

field14 said:


> Most of what I've read has shown the ASA growing only SLIGHTLY and IBO down in most areas.
> 
> Indoors, in MOST areas of this country is accelerating. Over 1500 at Vegas, and over 1100 at NFAA Indoor Nationals, not to mention the other shoots, such as Lancaster's. Of course, it is hard to compare, since INDOOR events are NOT come in and start when you want to, so MOST indoor facilities have to limit themselves to the number of lanes and how many lines they can run in a day....thus the comparision between the indoor local and sectionals when compared to outdoor 3-D isn't apples to apples.
> 
> ...


Wow, I gotta call BS on this. It is all ARCHERY, it all envolves shooting a bow! I for one shoot all 3 of these venues of archery and have had some success in all three, 3d, field and Indoor. Would also love to try some FITA as well. Each venue has it's own particular skill sets. In 3d, not only must one be able to shoot a (good shot), they must also be able to judge distance to the 1/2 yard. In field it is all about shooting consistant shots and learning to make the proper cuts and shooting with the bubble. Indoor is all about perfection every single shot period! 

In my area you better have your A game goin if you show up at any of the 3 venues, becuase with as many good shooters as we have around here it is anyones day. Same goes for the oklahoma crowd they are always a force to be reconned with.

As far as 3d being easier on ones psyche? I just gotta laugh at that. Try sitting in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd goin into day two of competion at a national event. Gotta bring it both days, not just one, gotta keep your head in the game, and gotta make just as good of shots as in any other venue. In my opionion it takes as much mental focus as any of the rest, if not more.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

MrPibb said:


> Wow, I gotta call BS on this. It is all ARCHERY, it all envolves shooting a bow! I for one shoot all 3 of these venues of archery and have had some success in all three, 3d, field and Indoor. Would also love to try some FITA as well. Each venue has it's own particular skill sets. In 3d, not only must one be able to shoot a (good shot), they must also be able to judge distance to the 1/2 yard. In field it is all about shooting consistant shots and learning to make the proper cuts and shooting with the bubble. Indoor is all about perfection every single shot period!
> 
> In my area you better have your A game goin if you show up at any of the 3 venues, becuase with as many good shooters as we have around here it is anyones day. Same goes for the oklahoma crowd they are always a force to be reconned with.
> 
> As far as 3d being easier on ones psyche? I just gotta laugh at that. _Try sitting in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd goin into day two of competion at a national event. Gotta bring it both days, not just one, gotta keep your head in the game, and gotta make just as good of shots as in any other venue. In my opionion it takes as much mental focus as any of the rest, if not more_.


I sure agree that you gotta bring your "A" game no matter what the venue. However, on at Vegas...THREE solid days in a row, just to get to the shoot down...THEN the fun begins. At this, I think a solid 3-D shooter, should they get to the shoot down phase at Vegas, have a huge advantage over a "target" type. The 3-D shooter is used to ONE ARROW for ALL the marbles, whereas, most of the time, in the Target events, it rarely comes down to ONE arrow for all the marbles when you have 1,000 people watching.

However, in ALL 3-D events...you definitely have to make FEWER perfect shots to win...At the NFAA National outdoors...even if it is a 3-day format, you need 112 for the field round, 112 for the hunter round, and 28 for the animal round...AND the field/hunter are done in normally just at 5 hours for EACH DAY. The 28 animal round is about 2-3 hours...but small DOTS are the separator here. You don't get a 20-25 minute rest between shots in any of the outdoor target venues, nor for that matter indoors, either.
Vegas is 3 shots per end...2 1/2 minutes per end, or 50 seconds per shot...and the TIME LIMIT IS ENFORCED to the letter....Won't get away with going over that limit like is so common in 3-D to shoot ONE arrow. 30 shots per day, with that time limit...and then, if you are good enough to get the perfect 900, the slate is clean again...and you go for the big one...the shoot offs.
NFAA indoors? 60 arrows per day, 12 ends, 5 arrows per end, 4 minute time limit; again strictly enforced. You gotta shoot 120X in the Pro Division just to make the shoot off...then go on for several more ends after that for the win.

Either way, in all of those 3 venues....way more arrows shot for a "win" than any 3-D main event. We could talk full FITA...144 arrows, 6 shots per end, 2 minutes per 3 shots..strictly enforced... 90, 70, 50, 30 meters...NO UMBIES to break the wind, and no umbies to shield the rain or sun either.
Of course, World Cup is the 70 meter 12 arrow "round" for the medals, after the shooters 'qualify' to get there.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

field admitt it, you only like paper archery... we all know how you really feel!

Merry Christmas


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## rutmaster (Dec 12, 2007)

i love all things archery!!! from crossbows to recurves and everything in between, what i dislike in 3d, are the people who act as though they invented it!! or the guy, theres one in every class, that looks down upon other shooters, usually for the amount of money spent on gear! we are all guys and gals that love a sport and love participating at different levels, and it really doesn't matter what level or class you are in, i will always be happy to see you out there! good shootin!!!!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> field admitt it, you only like paper archery... we all know how you really feel!
> 
> Merry Christmas


Merry Christmas to you too!

Actually, I like just about anything ARCHERY....BUT...I prefer to shoot more arrows in a tournament or local 'event' and more than one arrow at a time before scoring....so, yes, I guess I do like PAPER archery better, or I PREFER "paper archery".

However, I started in this game as a devout bowhunter by shooting a LOT of 'stump shooting' (obviously UNKNOWN distances) to get proficient, and then went after small game...rabbits, jack rabbits, gophers, and prairie dogs before undertaking big game animals. If it wasn't for HUNTING, I would never have taken up archery. Gun hunting had become to Blah and such a sure thing, that we needed the challenge.

Of course, back then, my family was far from rich, so it came to be that we ate what I shot, and it cost a lot less shooting them with a bow, and there was obviously less tissue damage and wasted meat, too. Stalking up to within 10-15 feet of a cotton-tail or jack rabbit wasn't an easy task...had to see them first and then move SLOW and steady without noise and side-to-side motion in your gait. Then there is the waiting game on Prairie dawgs...so they'd poke up their heads out of the hole and you'd try to zap 'em from around 20 to 30 feet away. UNMARKED...and no sites or fancy stuff.

I guess you could say I cut my teeth on REAL 3-D shooting, and REAL "UNMARKED" distances as a means of providing rabbit meat for the table. Those live animals are about as 3-D as you can get. Started doing this around 1958....

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Bowtech54 (Sep 20, 2006)

Do like a fellow told me one time,.......shoot a score high enough that they can't write down.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I see field14 jumped in. As I said in a previous reply, what division of 3D needs pin pointed, local clubs or nation circuit. Tom gave several minutes to shooting one shot. Yes, at a national event. No, at a local 3D club. I shot in the Metro ProAm and both days it took 4 hours to shoot just 20 targets, so 8 hours to shoot 40 targets. However, it didn't seem like 4 hours. Good people, stories, making fun. There were so many of us Super Seniors that we had right at 4 shooters to each of the 20 targets and my group had 6. So it takes time. Next, the target range was arranged in squared off area, 10 target on each side. So what you had was 75 shooters shooting all at once, advancing to the target, scoring, returning and then all moving to the next target. So 2 minutes times 6 (my group) times 20 targets equal 240 minutes or 4 hours. Range Officials; Lord! One hang up and they were on it and right now. We had one hang up and when Bill Hatton came shooters were scampering and fast. So each day ran just like a well oiled machine.

At virtually every local club we usually finish off 40 targets in about 2 hours, more if more than 4 to a target, but then the range wanders all over and you can pass the slower shooters.

Field shooting. field14 said 112 shots. Not exactly. The first target is a practice round, so 116 arrows. If you shoot a few arrows prior to this, then 125 or 130. I have enjoyed shooting field and probably have done some of my best shooting. The only problem I have with our state sanctioned field shoots is there is two days of it, so a possibility of 250 or more shots and making it sort of disheartening is the lack of nice awards for what can be a punishing event.
Field shooting in our next of woods was or is drawing 20 shooters average, maybe. I believe there are 4 clubs within the state that have a full 28 target course and Pekin has a very nice 28 target range. I shot once with some that had shot only 3D. They liked it though not setup for it. However, they didn't like the 4 hours to shoot it.

And though getting off 3D....and we shouldn't.
Indoors, my dislike. Probably what ruined me is the state championships. Two days of it. It sort of goes back and still of the present. Years back we shot the 5 spot the first day and then the Vegas face the second day and then the Vegas was a 60 arrow event, not 30. And then the Aggregates of today are still 60 arrows for the Vegas face. Not 30 here and 30 there, but 60 arrows all in one event.
Indoor Leagues, another dislike. 10 weeks is too dang long. Half way through and half the shooters have already dropped out, so it seems. And it seems the handicap system works for and against the shooters. The good shooters get their butt kicked and the so-so shooters beat the good shooters with scores in access of the max 300 the good shooters shoot. Presley's having having the distance, I'd rather see 20 yards for all and then top shooters moved back 1 or 2 yards each time until ???? Probably would work some and then top shooters will still shoot top scores. I mean, I have shot several 290 pluses and 3 or 4 300s from 30 yards.


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## hockeymotocross (Dec 18, 2010)

What's wrong with putting your quiver on your bow for a 3D shoot? Most people at 3D shoots have no chance of winning and only do it for fun or to practice for hunting. What better way to practice for hunting than to shoot your bow exactly (minus broadheads, of course) the way you have it rigged in the field? As for cheaters, it's pretty pathetic if plastic trophies or gift certificates to Jiffylube are important enough to cheat for. I also hate the unfriendly, overly serious guys who take 10 minutes to shoot then bino after the shot. I used to laugh at guys at 3D shoots who had target bows with 4 foot stabilizers and scopes on them because you couldn't hunt with them, but now I see how popular target shooting is. I just bought a 30 inch, stabilizer (we call it my "Jerk" stabilizer) have learned a back tension release, and occasionally let down if I get too shaky before it goes off. My dad says I need to practice my frustrated sigh after every shot, even if it's a bullseye! Just like golf, I believe slower players/shooters should let faster ones go through. I really hate big groups of 8,9 even 10-12 shooters, especially when they have a bunch of kids and are looking for arrows on every target, but they usually seem to let other people through. More than anything, I hate unfriendly people-not just at 3D but anywhere. I'm not saying a sponsored shooter has to talk to me for 10 mintues and give me a bunch of free advice, but if someone takes the time to tell me "beautiful shot" or "nice bow", I always have at least a freindly "thank you" for them.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> I see field14 jumped in. As I said in a previous reply, what division of 3D needs pin pointed, local clubs or nation circuit. Tom gave several minutes to shooting one shot. Yes, at a national event. No, at a local 3D club. I shot in the Metro ProAm and both days it took 4 hours to shoot just 20 targets, so 8 hours to shoot 40 targets. However, it didn't seem like 4 hours. Good people, stories, making fun. There were so many of us Super Seniors that we had right at 4 shooters to each of the 20 targets and my group had 6. So it takes time. Next, the target range was arranged in squared off area, 10 target on each side. So what you had was 75 shooters shooting all at once, advancing to the target, scoring, returning and then all moving to the next target. So 2 minutes times 6 (my group) times 20 targets equal 240 minutes or 4 hours. Range Officials; Lord! One hang up and they were on it and right now. We had one hang up and when Bill Hatton came shooters were scampering and fast. So each day ran just like a well oiled machine.
> 
> At virtually every local club we usually finish off 40 targets in about 2 hours, more if more than 4 to a target, but then the range wanders all over and you can pass the slower shooters.
> 
> ...


Been there and done that, Sonny...that is, shooting increasing distances for the "good" shooters....HUGE problems with that due to the wait times for those shooting beyond the 20 yards; among other things. The logistics just don't work, and the 60 arrow rounds would take forever as we could have as many as SIX shooting lines per end, depending upon the distances and number of shooters at each distance. We start leagues at 6PM and the "cigaretters" have to have a 10 minute break after only 30 shots). If we had to rund different distances, then it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to complete the round before 8PM closing! There are TIME restrictions with regard to store hours, you know.

As far as the length of the leagues goes...The leagues have to shoot ONE ROTATION thru the number of teams in the league in order for each team to shoot each other team once. It also is a royal PIA to try to double up and have each team shooting TWO teams each week...unless YOU want to be the league secretary and try to keep tabs on that one. If there are 12 teams in the league, then that means 11 weeks to complete a rotation. Pee and moan...if it was 6 weeks, people would cry it isn't worth the time and effort for that short of a league....then we have more teams and SOME whine and cry that it is too long? Make up your frickin' minds, will ya?

Then..."we gotta be done with spot leagues before the middle of MARCH", cuz people want to get outside? Well...what about the FACT that the 3-D outdoors starts the beginning of MARCH...and yet the indoor 3-D leagues ran until the middle of APRIL...and nobody howled and complained about that little FACT. What is good for the goose is good for the gander....

Fast foward to REALITY...Leauges are NOT designed for the GOOD or TOP shooters, they are designed to try to bring new people into the leagues; thus the handicap system of the best two out of the last three total rounds ACTUALLY SHOT. If we stopped all scores at 300 max, then the top guns would never lose...the worst they could ever do is TIE...and the up and coming shooters would smell this about week #3 and all you have left are a handful of egotistical "top guns". Been there and seen it too often! Again, leagues are NOT for the top guns. IF you run a scratch league...you get about 5-10 shooters tops...been there and seen that too.

Fast forward to 2011...if you have the nerve for it...Presley's will be running a Vegas 330 league on Sunday afternoon, and two NFAA 360 round leagues on Monday and Tuesday evenings. Handicap based upon 330 scoring (11points for the babyX), or on the 360 round, 6 points for the X-ring. Let's see the big guns figure out a way to pee and moan about this...since THEY TOO can now go over 330 or 360...if they can put their sierra together...EVERYONE will have some handicap points. Of course, the handicap is still only 80% of your average of the best two out of the last three ACTUALLY SHOT to arrive at the next week's handicap. Go ahead and dump a score...you just cost your team some games...and...your handicap isn't going up for the next week either; it will stay the same as it was! Go ahead and "skip a week"; you'll still have to pay the fee, AND a blind score will kill your team's chances, PLUS..once again, your handicap won't change, cuz a blind score doesn't count in the handicap, and a blind score also doesn't receive your handicap either. Best 2 out of the last 3 ACTUALLY SHOT, remember? Go ahead and surge and shoot out of your head this week...next week, your handicap will drop like a rock...and you'll have to shoot even better, or your team will get crushed again., hehe.

Been running archery leagues since 1968, and tried/seen pretty much anything out there...and it always comes down to a VERY FEW that first, don't understand the handicap system, secondly, those that try to BEAT the handicap system, and thirdly those VERY FEW that think that the archery world starts and stops to let them on and off...as in, even in a FUN league, that they MUST have the "advantage" inherent to a big gun top dog shooter, cuz they can't stand to "lose" to a shooter with some handicap points....too bad, so sad, and if they don't like it, then don't get into the league if you can't stand the heat.


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## nitroteam (Jun 27, 2010)

Ok if that's what you want I don't like TICKS AND CHIGGERS. Got a thermocel so no more skeeter problems.


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

I went to a shoot in Orland Ca. a couple years ago..We were at a 70yd cross canyon shot and there was one guy and his daughter behind us. We let him shoot through and he says, "thanks guys we are just out having fun not keeping score today". He shot and launched 2 arrows in the dirt! He goes and gets his arrows and lets his daughter shoot and keeps going. After the shoot I turn in my score 899 42 targets 11-10-8 scoring. They post the scores and I see that I place 2nd to someone that shot 905. They call the first place winner and up walks that sucker we let shoot through that was not keeping score that dropped 22 points in 1 target, I was so pissed. But I let him take it, if he needs a pin that bad he can have it...what a d bag...


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## Ed-Osmar (Dec 18, 2010)

I shot a 3D match once, paid $20. won 1st. place, got $8.50 and found out I was only recurve shooter so thats why I won a 1st place. Can't afford to win any more.


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## mdpate (Apr 26, 2010)

DBiggers said:


> I hate it when someone stands at the stake for 5 minutes with their bino's up, then down, then up, then down, then up again. Bobbing up and down, then left and right, rinse and repeat...:chortle:. Then stand there at full draw for a full minute, then let down.....the group saying in unisance, "good shot" :crazy:....then comes to full draw again, only to shoot a rediculous 5....:doh:
> 
> Thats my little pet peeve....:smile:


Hahaha!! good one.


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## shine (May 8, 2010)

I don’t generally have a lot of beefs about what other people are doing or not doing. For the most part, I have yet to shoot with people who are not civil and following the rules. Sometimes I have seen people get too up-tight and it’s important to remember its all about having a good time - I have to remind my 11 year old of that from time to time.

Looks like some people here put a lot of expectations on what others are doing. I know one thing for sure, that path will ultimately take you to many disappointments. Best to focus on your own performance and state of mind - thereby, be part of setting a positive standard of conduct. If the best Archer is the one having the most fun, where are you in the pack?


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## eljugador (May 9, 2006)

DBiggers said:


> *As an officer of our local club, it would be nice to group shooters, but it'd never work. You have to remember that our 3-D shoots are meant to be a place to have fun and practice. The shooters we get come to our club so they can hang out with their buddies, gamble a little bit as to who is going to spank who's ass, or we get the die-hards that are simply there to practice for the upcoming ASA's/IBO's. Then we have the die-hard hunters that want to keep their skills finely honed for the upcoming turkey hunts and will shoot clear through summer to the following deer season. Then we have the beginners, they just want to come and shoot a little bit, maybe meet some nice friendly people, in hopes of learning the 3-D game. Grouping people simply will not work for all these reasons. If some people would just have enough honor and respect for themselves and others, as to not cheat, then they'd realize that the little plastic trophy isn't worth your self-respect. One other thing, no one really gives a big whoop at how well you shoot these local tournaments anyway, if you want to make a name for yourself, than have a good showing at the national events. Then you'll have people talking about you, so chill out and have fun....That's another dose of my .02 cents worth....:wink:*


Nice. Never understood the purpose of cheating in a sport or game -- particularly if it is just for fun. Even if you win, you still know you've lost. Worse, you know you're a loser.


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## jjw3 (Mar 20, 2006)

cenochs said:


> I hate that the IBO let's anybody shoot together at big events! You will never beat the buddy system!!


this just blows my mind. Thats the reason most people shoot EITHER Ibo or Asa exclusively. Most that shoot one wont shoot the other and vicey versy.


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## headhunter68 (Mar 26, 2010)

I hate the umbrellas, the sun shades, the country club types that shoot wearing polos and flip flops while holding up the entire course because "the wind only gusts when I'm shooting" guy......


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

I love all archery and wish I was rich so I could open a range and shoot when I want with no worries.

But there are still little pet peeves:

~ Ones that say “owe that shot sucked” right after they shoot, then you get there and it is in the 11 ring. It’s like they just say it to try and make them feel better.
~ Score callers that think if it's 1/32nd from the line then it's touching
~ Ones that glass at the stake after the shot (as if he can change the shot)
~ You can’t split the groups at local shoots but the national shoots should have a better system fro busting groups. Most of my buddies and I have preferred to 
separate so we could shoot more competitively against each other in the end and not have any smack talk while shooting.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I hate the title Pro Staff used to liberally!!! If you dont have some top tens at national events don't use the word Pro Staff!! There are more Pro Techs and Pro Hunters then legit Pro Staff members. It seems everyone with a bow and a shirt is a Pro Staffer!!!!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I despise how everyone knows people are cheating in IBO shoots, even at the 2010 World Championship, and zero is being done about it!!!!!! I thought the "rumors" were just whining or poor sports being jerks because that is the root of most "rumors" involving competition. But damn if it wasn't a fact that buddies were in the same group and the scoring was "within a quarter inch" at the World Championship! 

I couldn't care less about folks "cheating" in local fun shoots since most clubs try to run a good shoot and most shooters are out to have a good time. Most clubs don't have the resources or should even try to catch folks "cheating". But when it's a meaningful competition we should drop the hammer on the turds aggressively cheating.

I haven't had a problem in any of the national level ASA shoots I've participated in. 

I do like the IBO scoring system and walking the courses. I also see the ASA course layouts as the "better" environment for the enjoyment and entertainment value of 3D archery. The ASA has a hit with the known yardage classes. I think both the ASA and the IBO have their fans for having and not having a speed limit. While I like a speed limit I don't mind not having a speed limit.

Local clubs
- Should keep the walking distance of a course to a minimum. It takes less time to set up and tear down a course that has the targets closer together. Archers can socialize better and not waste as much time walking a short course.
- Have variety of courses. Shooting targets in the same shooting lanes gets old even if the target is different and there is a bit of a difference in yardage from shoot to shoot. I actually shoot theses real familiar course worse and I believe it's because it's boring and I'm not "working".
- Should have clearly defined rules especially on scoring. I know many clubs can't have all ASA or IBO targets but how an individual target is scored should be VERY clear.

We shouldn't be so quick to judge someone as being less than honest when they shoot a lot of real good scores but then screw the pooch at a shoot.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

DBiggers said:


> I hate it when someone stands at the stake for 5 minutes with their bino's up, then down, then up, then down, then up again. Bobbing up and down, then left and right, rinse and repeat...:chortle:. Then stand there at full draw for a full minute, then let down.....the group saying in unisance, "good shot" :crazy:....then comes to full draw again, only to shoot a rediculous 5....:doh:
> 
> Thats my little pet peeve....:smile:



That would be mine as well.


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## guitar309 (Mar 31, 2009)

I originally wrote a big long reply... but erased it all... because it comes down to this.... ARCHERY IS ARCHERY... If you enjoy shooting 3d shot 3d... I LOVE 3d and am very lucky to have some great courses in my area... but I only shoot them for fun! I will never shoot another competition 3d even again because there is not enough regulation on scores... Until there is a guy at every stake keeping scores for a group then its pointless because you can't trust other people.. I SHOOT FOR FUN! 

However I enjoy shooting indoors! It really teaches you how to become a good shooter and work on form and repetition... I usually find that after a winter of shooting spots my 3d scores jump up.. I don't really look at the animals I am shooting.. I look at the 10 ring like an x... so for me.. I would have just as much fun at a 3d if the animals where just targets and different distances... I think 3d targets just entertain the shooter and keep him from becoming bored... because really.. a target is a target no matter if its a foam deer or a blue and white circle. 

And I also think there are many 3d shooters that say they don't like indoors because they can't do it! NO OFFENSE!!... But at a local 3d with 100 shooters there are maybe 5 or 6 guys (that are usually the top 6) that can actually shoot a 5 spot... this is because indoor shooting is a good way to train yourself and teach yourself how to shoot accurately and repeat yourself on every shot.. and 90% of the time.. If there is a top 3d shooter that says he enjoys 3d more that indoors... Its because he can't compete with the indoor guys and wins at 3d.. sad but true... I don't know how many people I know that can put 5 arrows in a single spot but can't shoot a 5 spot to save there lives.. I am talking on a local level...

You go to a national level... MOST top 3d competitors will tell you they shoot indoor as well... 


BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT... you can shoot whatever you like.. its your own opinion... I enjoy shooting.. no mater what it is...


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## JAG (May 23, 2006)

I don't like waiting. I loose my rhythm if i have to keep waiting on the group ahead. But I also understand that everyone has their own pace.


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## Floridaboy (Dec 8, 2003)

People who at a State Championship can't find a baby sitter for there 7 or 8 year old kid who is constantly making noise and "asking Daddy when are we going to be done, and moving all around when you at the stake trying to shoot.....or the same person with a cell phone in his pocket screaming when it rings "DADDY ANSWER YOUR PHONE.....DADDY ANSWER YOUR PHONE" over and over again......Or people (women) who scream twenty yards away when you at full draw because on of them shot another 12....not their first 12 just a 12.


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## bowkill82 (Jan 18, 2010)

i hate pencil pushers and guys that dont use the rite equipment for the class


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

the mule deer target and shooting in the rain,
but seriously now, it's the serial go - slows, not good sportsmanship.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

Way to many dudes and not enough chicks :tongue:


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't really dislike anything about 3-d as far as the game goes,I wish the point system could go on anatomically accurate vitals per the species rather than rings that are often not where you would want to place the arrow on an actual animal in a hunting situation,but I do understand the difficulties that might procurr;so if not that,maybe targets that have color variations to the rings or scoring areas{5- that animals natural color/8-another color/10-yet another,etc}....just thoughts.But like I said,I don't dislike any of it,just things that would appeal to "me".......Now the thing that I do dislike abouy 3-d is this;people that at club shoots that get to anal about being quiet,no moving or noises of moving,no talking anywhere in earshot,come on ,if you want total silence go shoot on "loners island",this is as much a controlled outdoor social event as anything else,if anything at all there should be more talking more comradry,more sharing,more "people"time is what our entire society is lacking.To many people these days have become intollerant of "LIFE".


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

It seems that just about every comment on here relates to how much everyone hates what someone else is doing. I have seen the following posted here:

I hate when someone has a quiver attached to thier bow
I hate when someone wears flip flops
I hate when someone uses an umbrella
I hate when someone glasses the target
I hate when someone lets down
I hate when someone bobs their head while looking at the target
I hate when someone is happy about shooting a 12 and lets out a yelp
I hate when someone has a kid on the range

Really I love 3D and all those things have become a part of it and they should for others too. We should learn to embrace those aspects and chuckle at them becuase they ARE a part of the sport as well as many other annoying aspects. And don't try to lecture me about some people being serious abou the sport. My family and I attend every ASA national event every year as well as the majority of our state events. I am an area rep for the ASA and basically live and breathe the sport of archery. I am as serious as it gets but if I hated all the aforementioned things about 3D I would never be able to enjoy my sport. I too used to dislike all those things but have made it a priority to chuckle at them and actually just keep adding to the list of oddities that occur at 3d shoots. If everyone would do the same we could all tolerate each other a little more on the courses and definitely enjoy ourselves more.


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## wheelie (Mar 2, 2009)

Can only control myself and what I do. I could not care a less about whiners or anyone else. Just wouldn't shoot with them again. If people cause me that much stress as described above I would quit. Get over it and have fun! If everyone was the same in this world, it would be a boring world, besides, need some idiots in this world or how would we know we were not one?


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## Floridaboy (Dec 8, 2003)

So then there is not edicate or common courtesy for your fellow archers....so when your in a restaurant and the kids at the table behind you are screaming, crying, kicking you seat or chair, flinging food across your table...then you just "chuckle"? So when you go to a library and your trying to study or read a book (and a library is "known for being a quite place") and if kids and people started talking, laughing, screaming and running around to the point is sounded like a noisy night club. Your at a football game and the guy in front of you stands up every play, cusses like a sailor and spills beer all over your wife.....are you "chuckling"? You're going to tell me that you are not going to consider these people *inconsiderate* and they should not act this way. I'm all about having fun, but if I am keeping the noise down, muting my cell phone, and not screaming when I've shot my 322nd 12 ring why should not other people show the same consideration. If I'm sitting behind the shoot down at the end of an ASA tournament and if Levi or Jeff is at full draw....how long would I sit there if my cell phone was screaming loudly...or I holler out at full draw "Shoot the 14 Jeff"...or my kid is running around feet away from them trying to shoot...(be it for money or fun) Would I be considered an inconsiderate nusince or would everyone just chuckle at me. Being tolerant of someone who has no consideration for YOU is not something to just "chuckle" at.


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

Floridaboy said:


> So then there is not edicate or common courtesy for your fellow archers....so when your in a restaurant and the kids at the table behind you are screaming, crying, kicking you seat or chair, flinging food across your table...then you just "chuckle"? So when you go to a library and your trying to study or read a book (and a library is "known for being a quite place") and if kids and people started talking, laughing, screaming and running around to the point is sounded like a noisy night club. Your at a football game and the guy in front of you stands up every play, cusses like a sailor and spills beer all over your wife.....are you "chuckling"? You're going to tell me that you are not going to consider these people *inconsiderate* and they should not act this way. I'm all about having fun, but if I am keeping the noise down, muting my cell phone, and not screaming when I've shot my 322nd 12 ring why should not other people show the same consideration. If I'm sitting behind the shoot down at the end of an ASA tournament and if Levi or Jeff is at full draw....how long would I sit there if my cell phone was screaming loudly...or I holler out at full draw "Shoot the 14 Jeff"...or my kid is running around feet away from them trying to shoot...(be it for money or fun) Would I be considered an inconsiderate nusince or would everyone just chuckle at me. Being tolerant of someone who has no consideration for YOU is not something to just "chuckle" at.


You must be a joy to be around yourself.


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

I'm just saying that all those things are things that happen and are here to stay. You will either be annoyed every time you shoot or you will learn to "chuckle" at them its your choice.


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## erictski (May 20, 2009)

I havent been to many tournaments but shoot league alot...and i love 3d...the only thing i hate is pencil pushers. 

Other than that if you wanna shoot with a quiver on or wear flip flops or keep your arrows in your back pocket or use black or clear nocks or fat arrows or whatever...then go ahead and do it...

But i can understand in a walking outdoor 3d course when guys are taking forever to glass targets that could get a bit anoying...


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

Look, I've been around this sport for a long time and I have hated every aspect of it that has been listed above. They have been happening on the 3d ranges since there have been 3d ranges. It wasn't going to change so I either had to start enjoying or quit the sport because all of my complaining and moaning wasn't going to change it. I enjoy myself a whole lot more now that I can enjoy it even with all of its annoying traits


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## jeffrey1 (Feb 4, 2009)

All of the idiots that keep posting how much they hate other shooters for this or that are the very same reasons why I and many others wont even bother getting into the sport. You do realize you come across as a bunch of elitist pigs. If you have concerns or issues with how an event is organized that is one thing, but to complain about people that may be new or inexperienced is foul.


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

I probably have even annoyed my fair share of others for something that I have done myself - heck I even annoyed Floridaboy - sorry didn't mean to do that. In fact I'd like to shoot up his way again sometime if they have some qualifiers this year and it would be good to be able to laugh about this thread.


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

shine said:


> I don’t generally have a lot of beefs about what other people are doing or not doing. For the most part, I have yet to shoot with people who are not civil and following the rules. Sometimes I have seen people get too up-tight and it’s important to remember its all about having a good time - I have to remind my 11 year old of that from time to time.
> 
> Looks like some people here put a lot of expectations on what others are doing. I know one thing for sure, that path will ultimately take you to many disappointments. Best to focus on your own performance and state of mind - thereby, be part of setting a positive standard of conduct. If the best Archer is the one having the most fun, where are you in the pack?


I knew I liked you Scott!


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## jeffrey1 (Feb 4, 2009)

With all of the pencil pusher remarks it would appear either accountants or screenwriters really enjoy the sport of 3D


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## Sixdeuce (Aug 31, 2006)

I for one cant wait till my kids are old enough to take onto the 3d course with me. Some of my best memories as a child is being with my parents and their friends on the 3-d course. I dont take my kids to an idoor spot shoot though. I guess if I'm outside and have went to a local club shoot I'm going there expecting to have kids running around and people having a good time.


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## jeffrey1 (Feb 4, 2009)

Sixdeuce said:


> I for one cant wait till my kids are old enough to take onto the 3d course with me. Some of my best memories as a child is being with my parents and their friends on the 3-d course. I dont take my kids to an idoor spot shoot though. I guess if I'm outside and have went to a local club shoot I'm going there expecting to have kids running around and people having a good time.


Agree with you one hundred percent


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## Floridaboy (Dec 8, 2003)

Sorry I stepped in the hornets nest.....I guess treating people like you want to be treated has now turned to "tolerance".
So I guess I'll leave it with......... I'll be considerate of the other shooters in my group and the other shooters around me in hopes they will do they same.


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## MISSOURIBOY (Aug 20, 2010)

darton3d said:


> People that belittle others because of the class they shoot in. Some seem to think that bowhunter classes are beneath them. Also those that do not realize we are all there for the same reason, we love to shoot archery, quit bickering and respect one another!


ditto!:thumbs_up


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

jeffrey1 said:


> All of the idiots that keep posting how much they hate other shooters for this or that are the very same reasons why I and many others wont even bother getting into the sport. You do realize you come across as a bunch of elitist pigs. If you have concerns or issues with how an event is organized that is one thing, but to complain about people that may be new or inexperienced is foul.


YOUR LOSS! You dont have a qlue what your missing. Doers and talkers and plenty of excuses.
DB


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

jeffrey1 said:


> All of the idiots that keep posting how much they hate other shooters for this or that are the very same reasons why I and many others wont even bother getting into the sport. You do realize you come across as a bunch of elitist pigs. If you have concerns or issues with how an event is organized that is one thing, but to complain about people that may be new or inexperienced is foul.


LOL you are in the wrong thread if you are not in the sport. Good or bad people are allowed to have pet peeves, I would rather someone complain on here rather then say something to a newbies face and belittle them.


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## gill1 (Jan 20, 2009)

I don't like the wind


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

Floridaboy said:


> Sorry I stepped in the hornets nest.....I guess treating people like you want to be treated has now turned to "tolerance".
> So I guess I'll leave it with......... I'll be considerate of the other shooters in my group and the other shooters around me in hopes they will do they same.


Floridaboy - What club do you shoot out of? I haven't been up your way in a couple of years and I need to check out some different areas. Hopefully there will be a couple of ASA qualifiers scheduled for you all this year. 
Sorry to get off topic but this is what I LIKE about 3D - finding new people to shoot with and new places to shoot.


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## Floridaboy (Dec 8, 2003)

I shoot Circle C in Folkston....Ft. Caroline in Jax....B & B in Hilliard....and sometimes if hard up North Fla Archers in Jax.


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## Growling Bear (May 22, 2006)

Best statement that I have ever seen and well put together and thought out. Each man and woman has to at the end of the day and look themselves in the mirror and ask did i Put my best foot forward.


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## shooter74 (Jul 7, 2005)

well have u seen the pros shoot. lol thats just like them.


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## mjcop518 (Nov 8, 2008)

I don't like pencil whippers and wanna be pro's. Especially don't like when someone gets called out pencil whipping and then doesn't turn in the card only to hurt a young kid that shot his best score, you know who ya are!


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## 3-D Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

I don't like your post!


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

I can't believe a "What don't you like about 3D" thread has went longer than the "What do you like" thread!:mg:


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## rossi9s (Sep 25, 2005)

I guess i need to change flip flops to go along with cut -off Tank T


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

rossi9s said:


> I guess i need to change flip flops to go along with cut -off Tank T


Probably would be ok as long as the flip-flops are CAMO flip-flops, and the cut-off Tank T has some "interesting and colorful" lingo on it.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## bndhunter (Jun 23, 2009)

DBiggers said:


> *As an officer of our local club, it would be nice to group shooters, but it'd never work. You have to remember that our 3-D shoots are meant to be a place to have fun and practice. The shooters we get come to our club so they can hang out with their buddies, gamble a little bit as to who is going to spank who's ass, or we get the die-hards that are simply there to practice for the upcoming ASA's/IBO's. Then we have the die-hard hunters that want to keep their skills finely honed for the upcoming turkey hunts and will shoot clear through summer to the following deer season. Then we have the beginners, they just want to come and shoot a little bit, maybe meet some nice friendly people, in hopes of learning the 3-D game. Grouping people simply will not work for all these reasons. If some people would just have enough honor and respect for themselves and others, as to not cheat, then they'd realize that the little plastic trophy isn't worth your self-respect. One other thing, no one really gives a big whoop at how well you shoot these local tournaments anyway, if you want to make a name for yourself, than have a good showing at the national events. Then you'll have people talking about you, so chill out and have fun....That's another dose of my .02 cents worth....:wink:*


I fully agree, local shoots are for fun and practice. Grouping shooters can sometimes take some of the fun out of the 3-D shoot. However if it is a sanctioned shoot such as a state, regional or national shoot then yes the shooters should be grouped.


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## denden9 (Sep 19, 2004)

The only thing I don't like is it never last long enough. I could care less about pencil pusher, ones that stand at stake all day , kids and people making noise. I go to shoot my bow which I enjoy a lot and the only person I'm there to beat is me and enjoy a day of being with friends. Life is too short to take it so serious . :grin:


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

My only complaint is that I don't have time to shoot as much as I would like.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

cenochs said:


> I hate that the IBO let's anybody shoot together at big events! You will never beat the buddy system!!



I do think the buddy system is an issue, but not as much as we think, or people make it out to be. I've shot with my friends and they all were honest and scored fairly...Best scores that I ever shot in the IBO were with total strangers.


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## gymrat70 (Apr 13, 2006)

mjcop518 said:


> I don't like pencil whippers and wanna be pro's. Especially don't like when someone gets called out pencil whipping and then doesn't turn in the card only to hurt a young kid that shot his best score, you know who ya are!


Agreed. Every shoot has them apparently!


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

DBiggers said:


> *Oh dude, their is a big difference between, "Shooting for fun" and "Having fun Shooting". I meant having fun shooting. I understand its a competition, but its not the kind of competition to get all bent out of shape over. This year our club is having a male and female shooter of the year, with a cash prize at the end. That alone is going to bring in the more serious shooters and we will be keeping a special watch out for those who's pencils are sharper than their shooting is. We're also going to have roving range officials to address any concerns such as cheating or any other issues that may arise. We're serious about the rules that we've have laid down, but we're equally concerned about our shooters having fun while they're here. It will be impossibe to please everyone, but we're damn sure going to try. Which brings me to another one of my pet peeves, the people that don't know the difference.*


I have two pet peeves...

1. Club officials that think it's "too "hard" (insert whiny voice here) to bust up groups". Its very easy. Shotgun starts are incredibly easy. Continous line you hold groups until you have a right sized group and sell them novelty shoots while they wait. Otherwise send a club member with the big family group.

2. Shooters that think it's impossible to "have fun shoot" while doing it with 1-2 friends AND 1-2 perfect strangers that may become new friends.


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

DBiggers said:


> I hate it when someone stands at the stake for 5 minutes with their bino's up, then down, then up, then down, then up again. Bobbing up and down, then left and right, rinse and repeat...:chortle:. Then stand there at full draw for a full minute, then let down.....the group saying in unisance, "good shot" :crazy:....then comes to full draw again, only to shoot a rediculous 5....:doh:
> 
> Thats my little pet peeve....:smile:


Dude, how could you say this about me.....


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

J Whittington said:


> I do think the buddy system is an issue, but not as much as we think, or people make it out to be. I've shot with my friends and they all were honest and scored fairly...Best scores that I ever shot in the IBO were with total strangers.


My husband will call my arrow out quicker than anyone else in the group...that hurts...lol


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

Floridaboy said:


> People who at a State Championship can't find a baby sitter for there 7 or 8 year old kid who is constantly making noise and "asking Daddy when are we going to be done, and moving all around when you at the stake trying to shoot.....or the same person with a cell phone in his pocket screaming when it rings "DADDY ANSWER YOUR PHONE.....DADDY ANSWER YOUR PHONE" over and over again......Or people (women) who scream twenty yards away when you at full draw because on of them shot another 12....not their first 12 just a 12.


I knew someone would be upset at us women for having fun at an event!!! I am gonna WOOHOO when I shoot a 12 and you really better watch out if I ever shoot a 14...there is a dance involved....We do it at the big shoots too so if you really, really don't want to hear us (women) having a good time whether we just shot our first 12 or our 40th 12 you best be staying at the house.

I hope you come to the ASA shoot in February and are on a range near some of us troublemaking screaming women....we will surely make your shoot a living hell.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Woohoo


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

3Dblackncamo said:


> Woohoo


WooHoo back at ya buddy!!!!


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

absolutecool said:


> WooHoo back at ya buddy!!!!


you ladies WooHoo it up all you want I kinda like it and it reminds us guys there is some eye candy around!


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## TN- archerychic (Jun 4, 2007)

absolutecool said:


> I knew someone would be upset at us women for having fun at an event!!! I am gonna WOOHOO when I shoot a 12 and you really better watch out if I ever shoot a 14...there is a dance involved....We do it at the big shoots too so if you really, really don't want to hear us (women) having a good time whether we just shot our first 12 or our 40th 12 you best be staying at the house.
> 
> I hope you come to the ASA shoot in February and are on a range near some of us troublemaking screaming women....we will surely make your shoot a living hell.



Well said my friend. Floridayboy, I would like to invite you to visit the womens' ranges at the ASA Florida shoot. We would love to meet you in person and welcome you with a great big WOOHOO!! The negative things posted in this thread about other shooters is not really doing anything to encourage people to come out and give 3D a try. What happened to building the sport and making others feel welcome??


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

3Dblackncamo said:


> you ladies WooHoo it up all you want I kinda like it and it reminds us guys there is some eye candy around!


Heck yeah, now that's what I'm talking about....we can even have our picture made together...last year we had random guys on the ranges having their pics made with us....I still don't know who they are...lol


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

TN- archerychic said:


> Well said my friend. Floridayboy, I would like to invite you to visit the womens' ranges at the ASA Florida shoot. We would love to meet you in person and welcome you with a great big WOOHOO!! The negative things posted in this thread about other shooters is not really doing anything to encourage people to come out and give 3D a try. What happened to building the sport and making others feel welcome??


I am wondering if this is the same guy that posted over on the ASA forum that we are just a bunch of loud screaming women...remember that?


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

absolutecool said:


> I am wondering if this is the same guy that posted over on the ASA forum that we are just a bunch of loud screaming women...remember that?


well just look at the haag archery thread i am in that pic with 2 other guys, anyways it dont matter I am a tennessee boy WooHoo!


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

3Dblackncamo said:


> well just look at the haag archery thread i am in that pic with 2 other guys, anyways it dont matter I am a tennessee boy WooHoo!


link please...we probably know each other..


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## outlaw3 (Feb 24, 2009)

I have been out of 3d for a few years now, but one thing that used to get under my skin. Was when I would go a money shoot, and find out that the guy that the range holder had set up the range was also shooting in the tournament. But the best is when I knew they were cheating, and still put it on them.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

absolutecool said:


> link please...we probably know each other..


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=969318&d=1294270920


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

Just wait til we go to the Augusta Fort Gordon shoot when the bombs and automatic weapons start sounding off. You know you are concentrating then!


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## oldeadeye06 (Feb 12, 2009)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> People who think you can buy wins with equipment or think other people win because of their equipment.


You sound jealous!,if you can afford it go ahead, if he cant shoot no better with high dollar equipment thats his buisness


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## ChrisH (Oct 31, 2004)

I havent really got into 3d yet (only shot at 1 event), so...what is a "pencil pusher". the guy whose job it is to write the scores down?


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

ChrisH said:


> I havent really got into 3d yet (only shot at 1 event), so...what is a "pencil pusher". the guy whose job it is to write the scores down?


Cheating writing the scores down.


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## rodneyroberts32 (Nov 17, 2008)

I will tell you one of the things that I like. I love to get behind a group of people with kids in the group shooting and seing how excited they get when they just hit the target. My 9 year old shoots with me and I love to watch him shoot. If its not for the people that try and get the kids involved the sport will die out.


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## Yawna-GO (Nov 15, 2006)

bfisher said:


> I have to agree with those posting about the "target" shooters who hold everything up. I think such people have contributed highly to the drop in attendence over the last few years in many places. On the other hand there are a lot of guys who complain about being held up simply because they are "just practicing for hunting".  I hate to bust any bubbles but 3D shooting has little or nothing to do with hunting. It is a form of target shooting in it's own right. Just doesn't have a marked bullseye and known yardage (in most cases).
> 
> Here where I live we participate in a winter league with four other clubs. Due to the "IBO" shooters wanting longer yardages we put in 45 yard stakes a couple years ago. Guess what? Only a couple of these guys even showed up last year. The end result was that we lost a lot of the average Joes that didn't want to be held up. Then there were a few cheaters and of course, the buddy groups. This year we changed the rules. It's now a fun shoot. 35 yard Max. No rules other than follow the course. No equipment rules--shoot what ya brung. Range finders---use one if you like. No awards. Now it's shoot for fun.
> 
> A lot of those who showed up for the first shoot are complaining. Removing any form of competition may not have been the wisest move. We have 14 more weeks to go through and keep getting feedback. We can always change the rules for next year, but the fact remains there are always going to be those who are not satisfied. Maybe we could put heaters at each shooting stake or something. It's not always total fun shooting in 20 to 30 degree weather with 20 mph winds, but it beats sitting at home.


I respectfully disagree with this comment. Hunters are the sole reason for 3-D in the first place. If it was not for the desire for hunters to perfect their aim and yardage judgment archers would only be shooting at yellow,red, and black bullyseye's.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Yawna-GO said:


> I respectfully disagree with this comment. Hunters are the sole reason for 3-D in the first place. If it was not for the desire for hunters to perfect their aim and yardage judgment archers would only be shooting at yellow,red, and black bullyseye's.


I agree here on this. ORIGINALLY, the 3-D was set up to allow those of us that liked to hunt an opportunity to hone our HUNTING skills. That, however didn't last long, unfortunately.

The current manner of 3-D doesn't have a lot to do with hunting, for many reasons, some of which, IMHO are:

1. Few hunters today go out hunting WITHOUT a range finder. Some still do, and sometimes you get caught in a situation where you can't use the range-finder...but any tree stand/ground blind hunter will have things pretty well, if not perfectly marked out as to yardages from their position outwards within their selected limits of range for an accurate/humane harvest of the quarry.

2. The positioning of the "kills" on MOST of the 3-D targets of today are NOT in an anatomically correct position for a one-shot, one clean and humane kill on the particular animal involved. DEFINITELY NOT in the area of the supposedly lethal "heart shot" that the 12 or 14-rings are in on the 3-D animals. Now, I must admit, that if most of the 3-D targets in use today were shot from TREE STANDS or elevated positioning, then those "12 rings/ 14 rings are in a better position for that one-shot effective vital hit...but then the competitors would be complaining that they are shooting at an "Oval" ring because of said elevation...but DUH....out of a tree stand...the "vital zone" is narrowed down severely, is it not?

3. MOST of the 3-D shots are set so the shooter is simply standing upright, in a standard "T" shooting stance/formation with pretty reasonable footing. When 3-D started years and years ago, the competitors could well expect to have to kneel down, stand awkwardly, twist out of position, stand on Tippy-Toes, lean left or right away from their "comfortable T-formation" form, and all sorts of other things. MOST of the time, on today's competitive 3-D rounds, this isn't the case.

4. In a HUNTING situation, the hunter is NOT using an umbrella to break the wind so that they can aim steady, not using an Umbrella to stop them from getting wet during rain, and doesn't get an extra person to help hold such "wind/rain blocker." The HUNTER is out in the elements and has to make the shot IN THE ELEMENTS. In today's 3-D competitive events, this is no longer the case. Sure, the rain comes down or the wind blows during many of the competitive 3-D events...but those umbies are out there in full force being used to protect the shooter from the elements. Definitely NOT "simulating" actual HUNTING conditions...more like nearly shooting INDOORS, ha.

5. Most of the time, when HUNTING, you don't get TWO full minutes or one full minute to figure out the shot, find the "kill zone", etc. You gotta matter of seconds to make that killing, shot. Not so on a 3-D range.

6. Nearly all the time in the upper COMPETITIVE Divisions, NONE of those setups could be taken out in the field to HUNT WITH. Meaning that in very rare instance would those SAME ARROWS simply have their points pulled out, broadheads put onto them, and then get into the HUNTING MODE. I don't know for positive, but I don't know of any 50 grain broadheads (including the inserts)???? I also don't think those people in the Divisions that allow the long stabilizers would HUNT with those long stabilizers on those bows either...and taking those stabs off and going with a short one or none at all would CHANGE THE TUNE of said bow....so that setup would have to be changed in order to get it ready to HUNT WITH...SO...they are NOT using the "same thing" that they would turn around that afternoon and go in the field HUNTING.

7. HUNTING also deals with pursuing big game animals that, even within a given species vary in size, color, breadth, depth, weight, you name it. BUT...in the 3-D tournaments, the number and type of animals is SPECIFIED in advance for which 20 are going to be shot...and ALL OF each of those 20 are as close to exactly the same as possible... NOT SO ON REAL, LIVE GAME.
It would be better "Practice for HUNTING" if nobody knew in advance what "animal" out of the 50 or so they have available would come up during any tournament or round....TOTAL SURPRISE, just like ACTUAL hunting. Mix up all of those targets and SURPRISE the competitors at every tournament by having DIFFERENT animals at EVERY tournament...and let's see what happens then...for HUNTING practice.


Thus, my agreement that TODAY'S 3-D Shooting has little to do with ACTUAL practice for HUNTING, but I won't go so far as to say that it has NOTHING to do with hunting practice.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

Field there is 3d shoots that put in hunting situations still. I'm starting to believe the others. What's your deal against 3d?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Talk about disagreeing to agree on disagreeing. Tom is virtually agreeing with bfisher, but states he agrees with Yawna-Go. Still, Tom goes off on the national circuit stuff. Well, ancient history says a group started making animal targets stemming from the paper animal targets of the time. I believe the article noted California as the starting place. Rushing through time; As Tom stated incorrectly, but in fashion true, 2D quickly became something other than for the purpose of hunting. The first successful animal targets were the 2D targets made from ethafoam (which is still available). These were the first for use in sanctioned events. I have a newspaper picture of once NFAA National Champion Huck Roberts shooting a 2D buffalo. First, the body was cut from a foam sheet and quickly after cutters were made to replace the shot out point zone. Below are two of these on the wall. Our club still has a 8 foot standing grizzly bear. Shortly around the 2D target began the quest for the present day 3D target. Some of the first 3Ds were simple and crude and ranged to exotic with replaceable woven matt cores, not centers, but cores to stop the arrow.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Talk about disagreeing to agree on disagreeing. Tom is virtually agreeing with bfisher, but states he agrees with Yawna-Go. Still, Tom goes off on the national circuit stuff. Well, ancient history says a group started making animal targets stemming from the paper animal targets of the time. I believe the article noted California as the starting place. Rushing through time; As Tom stated incorrectly, but in fashion true, 2D quickly became something other than for the purpose of hunting. The first successful animal targets were the 2D targets made from ethafoam (which is still available). These were the first for use in sanctioned events. I have a newspaper picture of once NFAA National Champion Huck Roberts shooting a 2D buffalo. First, the body was cut from a foam sheet and quickly after cutters were made to replace the shot out point zone. Below are two of these on the wall. Our club still has a 8 foot standing grizzly bear. Shortly around the 2D target began the quest for the present day 3D target. Some of the first 3Ds were simple and crude and ranged to exotic with replaceable cores.


I shot the Fresno Safari tournament, in Fresno, California back in the early 1970's, and it was pretty much a "Novelty shoot" with animal based targets, and attended by the Big Names in Archery of the Day...The Ragsdales...Terry and his father, Pickering, Vic Leach, Kevin and Roger Erlandson, I think even Pops Rhode attended, but don't quote me on that. In addition, I think I even remember that Bill Shatner attened the Fresno Safari shoot in 1972, which my first of two that I went to. This was, of course many, many years before the IBO or ASA was even a concept, and long before the Redding Trail Shoot.

Our club in Ohio made theirs out of layered cardboard then cut the "3-D" out with a sabre saw after painting them up to look somwhat like the animal they were supposed to be. They were probably about 2"-4" thick and were placed on the field/hunter range bales, or at Apache Bowmen, they had "dirt bunkers" for theirs. Those were the "root beginnings" of what eventually became the IBO. Circa around 1973. However, Sonny, like you said, we simulated HUNTING conditions...odd stances, kneeling on one of both knees, squatting down, leaning around saplings and/or sometimes big trees were commonplace. All unmarked of course, one foot on the stake.
Then, we also had the funnest ones of all....LINE SHOOTS. That is, there was a yellow or orange "rope line" that went down the path leading from one target to the next, you followed the line along until you "thought" you had a decent opening and once you went by an "opening", you could NOT go backwards on that line to get to the previous "opening" you already saw. You had to take your shot at the FIRST stopping point. These were a real hoot to shoot, because while there may be two or three "real" openings, there was only ONE opening that was the best...and you had to try to make the right decision. Obviously, you didn't necessarily stand upright or in your "T-Formation" shooting stance, but may well also have to lean or twist or squat to get the "opening" wider from your point of view. We all really had a ton of fun shooting these for sure.

We pretty much did the same type of thing in Iowa too, excepting most of the time, the cardboard cutouts weren't as thick or well worked. Then we got a bit into cutting them out of foam rubber and then foam itself. Around 1978 or so, DELTA Products, run by LaVerne Woock was based out of Waterloo, Iowa and he was making more realistic looking foam 3-D targets. Delta Products is still in existence to this day, and still makes 3-D targets, along with other types of arrow stoppers. LaVerne Woock still runs the place, I think, but it isn't in Waterloo, Iowa. I could look it up, but I"m too lazy, haha. SOME clubs in Iowa couldn't afford the Delta targets and took hours upon hours laying out, making, cutting, and painting their own 3-D targets. I remember that several of the magazines of the time had articles in them on "How to Make your Own 3-D targets for your Club." Some were really, really life-like and then some were....well...not of the best workmanship, but hey, they were at least no longer pinned to the bales! ahaha.

MOST ALL OF US used out HUNTING equipment and had a whale of a time with these rounds and it was exceptional fun. No binocs, rangefinders weren't invented yet. HUNTING weight arrows (field tips) and SOMETIMES broadhead shoots, PIN SITES (no sliders), distances ran up to around 45 yards max, and oh, my how much fun it was doing it completely with your hunting rig and putting your "target rig" totally aside for these events.

Then, things changed and it slowly evolved into more of a "target round" with allowances for lighter and lighter arrows, slider sites, scopes, and all that "target paraphenalia". Suddenly, the total "fun" was out of it and "shooters" more of a serious nature decided that it wasn't for "hunting practice" it was for SERIOUS competition...and it evolved even more eventually getting to where it is today....Mostly GOOD, but some "bad things" about it too.

However, today's 3-D archery competitions are NOT there for "hunting practice"; at least not in the minds of the top end shooters in each class or division. Yes, there are still MANY that go out there for "hunting practice", but they normally aren't the ones attending the bigger events of IBO or ASA, or even UNMARKED NFAA 3-D either.

So, folks do NOT tell me I've "never" been involved in 3-D and don't have a clue of what I'm talking about. I started out as a total BOWHUNTER and if it wasn't for BOWHUNTING, I would never have taken up the sport in the first place. After shooting starting out as a stump shooter (late 1950's), then hunting rabbits and small game with a traditional bow and wood arrows to get meat on our family's table, and then working into big-game hunting FIRST and then target shooting to hone my accuracy skills, and getting involved in too many clubs to count due to the numerous moves around this great Nation of ours, and having shot "animal" (including 2-D and 3-D) rounds AND TARGET AND Field/Hunter rounds in no less than 37 contiguous States, Alaska, Hawaii, and Guam, I feel pretty confident I know what has gone on in this game. I also keep up with the "goings on" by keeping my eyes and ears open, and asking around to those that ATTEND and WITNESS what is going on and get what I consider pretty reliable information from those experiencing the game as it now is...from BOTH SIDES of the "story." Don't forget that pictures are worth a thousand words, and then you have the articles about the tournaments to read too.

DO NOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS about me or try to tell me what you haven't a clue about concerning me. Many of you don't even realize when you are being baited in order to "heat up" the discussion and get people to commit or get "psyched out (or up)" over things that are written. You read things into what I say, and then you put words into your "interpretations" many of which are way off base...but YOU think you are spot on.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Tom is telling the straight story and I "rushed through time." I like his reply better than mine. I have in no way shot archery in any form near what Tom has, but know of some he speaks of. At one time the Caterpillar, Pekin and Canton clubs had ropes to help get you up and down some of the hillsides. Now, seems most clubs have a field range instead of 3D range. The club I belong to has some target lanes where you're better off shooting in your back yard. Lanes mowed out 20 and 30 feet wide and 75 and 100 yards long. Can't have shooters losing arrows, you know, and heaven forbid we put a target out to 50 yards. Of course some of our present day 3D shooters want to wear sandals and cut offs and cry like babies if they have to walk through leaves or step over a laid down tree.
No, 3D isn't what it was original started out to be for. I figure 3D is a competitive sport. If you can't hit that target, lose a arrow, it's your own fault. If you complain of the terrain, complain of losing a arrow, stay on the practice range.....or your own back yard.....


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

What's your point?? Times are changin?? You were a moonshiner so that makes you a NASCAR? Stirring the pot isn't against AT rules?? You went to a 3d shoot in the 70's so all you want to do is gripe now? Your the one typing 2 pages single spaced, maybe you hooked yourself in the ear??


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

What I dislike is hypocrites at some of our local clubs that tell us to follow rules and not follow them themselves. Ex drinking. One club's officers are drunk at every event and often leave as drunk drivers.
2. Not enforcing the minimum 3 in group, then , those two people whine and complain about a 73 yr old man taking to long, holding them up (mother and daughter do this) and finally, the King of Archery(self appointed) that sticks his nose in every ones business, thinks it's his job to medal stir up trouble within other clubs. I have a surprise for him next time


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Cut it out already....good grief.
Yep, 3-D shoots in the 70's, 80's 90's. and this decade too. Just cuz times are changing...it doesn't always mean it is for the BETTER!

There are "good things" going on with ASA and IBO that, to me, are preferable to what the NFAA is doing. However there are some "bad things" going on with ASA and IBO that are going to come back to haunt them in the future. ALL organizations have those sorts of things; nature of the beast.

"Pot stirring" isn't "illegal" on AT....you just stirred the pot with your last post....and I've grabbed the spoon and stirred too. So what? Once again, if you don't like what I have to say, don't read my posts...or better yet, put me on your IGNORE list...but do NOT try to take away my right to express my opinions...or even try it. NOBODY is forcing you to read my posts...YOU choose to read them all by your widdle self...and YOU choose to interpret them (and often times "mis-interpret" them) all by your widdle self.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## cookiemonster (Dec 4, 2006)

Well i have been shooting for 33 years seen alot of changes in the sport in that time heard all of the excuses why someone did not shoot well. but seems like after reading the post many are overlooking one of the best things about shooting is getting to meet new friends and talking smack to your old friends. Have been setting a 3-d course for 22 years get complements on my setups. I make you work for your score have had set the course by myself at times but when all the shooters say how they liked the course it is worth the work. what trying to say if you go to shoot and your not a member of a club that is in the position to do something about people dislikes then you need to join and support a club and find out how much work is in involved. you might see what you dislike is unimportant.


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## MrWinkles (Nov 7, 2010)

PSE Kid said:


> ill get it started, you guys add in.
> 
> *one thing i dont like is people that put their quiver on their bow for a 3d shoot,* i dont like it when people say, well, it would kill it, i also dont like it when people that shoot like crap with a hunting setup say that they dont have great scores because of their setup. drives me nuts.


 Wow.
Sad and hilarious.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

I wish we had moe new people at local shoots and I could shoot with less friends. When I shoot with friends it is more brutal than a national event, it is cut throat and we will have to sometimes take a photo then ask someones opinion at the club house. I have shot my best scores with strangers I think it is less stressfull of always competing with your friends.

I also hate that I dont have a coarse in my backyard.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Yawna-GO said:


> I respectfully disagree with this comment. Hunters are the sole reason for 3-D in the first place. If it was not for the desire for hunters to perfect their aim and yardage judgment archers would only be shooting at yellow,red, and black bullyseye's.


 Maybe this wan't the best choice of words. Reading field14's post above I know exactly what he's talking about. However my saying that 3D has no correlation to hunting was my sarcastic way of trying to convey what organized 3D (IBO & ASA) has become. It just seems that these two organizations have taken a "fun" sport and made it all about money. A lot of would-be shooters come along and read threads about this organized 3D and think that's what 3D is about and they couldn't be more wrong; just misinformed. 3D is about fun and personally that's all it is for me. That's why I don't participate in bigger shoots any more. Most local clubs, as alluded to by Sonny, have their act together to serve the general public better and cater to most bowhunters.

Don't get me wrong. There is certainly a need for the organized 3D shooting, but it should not be misconstrued to be a representation of all 3D shooting. Not everything in this life has to be about money. Some things should be done just for the shear enjoyment of it.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

bfisher said:


> Maybe this wan't the best choice of words. Reading field14's post above I know exactly what he's talking about. However my saying that 3D has no correlation to hunting was my sarcastic way of trying to convey what organized 3D (IBO & ASA) has become. It just seems that these two organizations have taken a "fun" sport and made it all about money. A lot of would-be shooters come along and read threads about this organized 3D and think that's what 3D is about and they couldn't be more wrong; just misinformed. 3D is about fun and personally that's all it is for me. That's why I don't participate in bigger shoots any more. Most local clubs, as alluded to by Sonny, have their act together to serve the general public better and cater to most bowhunters.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. There is certainly a need for the organized 3D shooting, but it should not be misconstrued to be a representation of all 3D shooting. Not everything in this life has to be about money. Some things should be done just for the shear enjoyment of it.


Local clubs are much more fun. I shoot the big ones because it is neat to get away and travel even if only one night and hang out with friends. Better be ready for some aggravation at the bigger shoots nothing is perfect.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

Wouldn't this place be boring if we all agreed with each other


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

field14 said:


> Cut it out already....good grief.
> Yep, 3-D shoots in the 70's, 80's 90's. and this decade too. Just cuz times are changing...it doesn't always mean it is for the BETTER!
> 
> There are "good things" going on with ASA and IBO that, to me, are preferable to what the NFAA is doing. However there are some "bad things" going on with ASA and IBO that are going to come back to haunt them in the future. ALL organizations have those sorts of things; nature of the beast.
> ...



Field14; I bet you would be a blast to be out on the course with and people watch. I could not even imagine sitting around a table with you and drinking a few beers, you have to be a trip. I am not knocking, I am complimenting.


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## Pepper (Feb 9, 2004)

People who think that a 3D course should look like a bowling alley lane to the targets.


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

*Arrogant, dumb $$A, know it all, People that do not participate*, in 3D archery that think they have a right to gripe, complain, piss, moan about 3-D archery. They refuse to come shoot because they are afraid the they can't control pooping in their "widdle" Depends diapers!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Pepper said:


> People who think that a 3D course should look like a bowling alley lane to the targets.


Now that, too, is one I agree with fully! 3-D is NOT a flat as a pancake, wide open, stand flat with no footing problems, type of game, IMHO. Whatever happened to uneven stances, kneeling down, having to spread your legs apart to get down low enough to shoot under some branches, etc, etc, etc. THOSE kinds of shots are what made 3-D a heckuva lot more fun, but we don't hardly see them anymore.

Hopperton, I don't know about the "blast to shoot with"...When I do go out on a 3-D course, it is for FUN and it is to have a good time. Like "scalp shoots"...the highest score on a target gets the "scalp"....and keeps it until someone scores better, and then the scalp changes hands. However, it isn't the MOST scalps that counts...it is the person holding the "scalp" after the LAST TARGET that is the winner....and the winner gets....FREE LUNCH of choice from the club kitchen and SODA from the rest of the group. The only drawback? The GROUP gets to pick the condiments that goes on the burger or hot dog or both (Not really, but we make sure we scare heck out of the winner with that "rule", hahahaha).

Or...California rules with regard to shooting off a nock...." If I shoot off one of YOUR nocks....YOU give ME a new one." If I robin hood one of your arrows....one of the other shooters gives ME $10. Stuff like that...hahahaha.

Oh, and then there are the excuses for missing...like the wind blast from the mosquito wings blew my arrow off course; you know...

field14 (Tom D.)


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

OK Tom, so mine wasn't the best choice of words, saying it has nothing to do with hunting. Your posts just above pervey my feeling better about it. we're about the same age although you've been shooting a couple years longer than I. Still, I agree with most of what you said above and can relate to nearly all of it. Most of the reasons given for not liking 3D are pointed toward the organized side of it (IBO & ASA). Knowing the history of "animal" shooting, as you pointed out, it is MHO that these two organizations have taken a good sport and just evolved it to another form of target archery totally unrelated to it's original intent. If memory serves me right it was never about money. It's one of the reasons I no longer participate in such events.

I think asa Low12 is missing your point. It's nice to read some of the history of shooting and try to relate it to what it is today. And as for him thinking we are all fuddy-duddies and saying we need to move on? He doesn't seem to realize that because we like to shoot we HAVE moved on. He's just not old enough to appreciate the history part of it. I can't say anything for him, but frankly I enjoyed reading those "2 pages" of history. Been there and done that.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

field14 said:


> Hopperton, I don't know about the "blast to shoot with"...When I do go out on a 3-D course, it is for FUN and it is to have a good time. Like "scalp shoots"...the highest score on a target gets the "scalp"....and keeps it until someone scores better, and then the scalp changes hands. However, it isn't the MOST scalps that counts...it is the person holding the "scalp" after the LAST TARGET that is the winner....and the winner gets....FREE LUNCH of choice from the club kitchen and SODA from the rest of the group. The only drawback? The GROUP gets to pick the condiments that goes on the burger or hot dog or both (Not really, but we make sure we scare heck out of the winner with that "rule", hahahaha).
> 
> Or...California rules with regard to shooting off a nock...." If I shoot off one of YOUR nocks....YOU give ME a new one." If I robin hood one of your arrows....one of the other shooters gives ME $10. Stuff like that...hahahaha.
> 
> ...


Fun is the important part, I have bought my share of hotdogs or hamburgers at the club house.

I will be in Cali a few times this summer, I may need to bring my bow and play at your clubs. I will be running around between Bakersfield and Fresno, I may have to look you up to get some shooting areas.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

bfisher,
You and I, when standing on top of the hill overlooking a herd of cows in the valley would listen to the young "bucks" say, "Hey, let's run down this hill and get us one of those cows." We would reply, "Go ahead sonnys, we will just walk on down there and get 'em ALL." Being of the "entitlement generation" they want it ALL.....yesterday, and don't understand that something NEVER comes from nothing...at least they don't understand it...YET. They don't understand that to get something on one side...you GIVE something from the other, since EVERYTHING is put back into balance rather quickly, ha.
They think that we are BS'ing them about the way it "was"...and that we don't really know the way it REALLY IS....and can pretty much guess the consequences of the current goings-on...because they ain't gonna up and "invent" something in this game that we haven't seen many times before. History has a way of repeating itself...but again...the "entitlement generation" lives for the NOW and the "I" and couldn't care less about consequences...they want it NOW and don't care what it costs.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Hopperton said:


> Fun is the important part, I have bought my share of hotdogs or hamburgers at the club house.
> 
> I will be in Cali a few times this summer, I may need to bring my bow and play at your clubs. I will be running around between Bakersfield and Fresno, I may have to look you up to get some shooting areas.


Whoops, I won't be anywhere near there...I'm in Illinois... BUT...I do have fond memories of attending two Fresno Safari's back in the early 1970's...


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

I read about the Safari's. I frequent Illinois alot but mainly near St. Louis or Davenport. Davenport is my all time favorite city in the U.S.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

What I dislike at 3-D shoots,
#1 is ppl that shoot with clickers getting all bent out of shape when you click the clicker in your pocket as soon as they come to full draw, just trying to help them out is all...dang whats up with that?
#2 PPl in the group behind you that get mad when you say your target is 65 yards and they shoot the target for that and shoot over by 4 feet, I guess I was wronge...hee hee.
#3 PPl that get all pisssy when you tell them..nice miss dude, I guess some ppl can't handle a compliment.
We are all here to have fun, well most of us are. If you can't see the humor in all things at times...don't shoot with me or around me.....LOL
Have a great time out on the range and get over yourself.......:shade::wink:
Don.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I see the non 3D shooting, non ASA/IBO member EDIT is still trolling the 3D forums to stirr up more trouble.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> I see the non 3D shooting, non ASA/IBO member crASS- hole is still trolling the 3D forums to stirr up more trouble.


Yep...spoken like a 3-D "shooter"; but not by a 3-D ARCHER.

Like they say, a dog smells his own first, or "It takes one to know one"...is your mirror giving you feed-back or what.

No "PRO" would ever be as disrespectful of another person, heck, not even a "Semi-PRO" would act as you are....and for sure NO ARCHER would be conducting themselves in such a disrespectful manner....so perhaps you need some "therapy"....cuz there isn't a PROFESSIONAL educator on the planet that would act as you are either. I'm amazed that as a supposed licensed "PROfessional educator" you even consider conducting yourself in this manner.

I tire of your callous and uncouth remarks, but you or your remarks will ever stop me from expressing my opinion, nor will they deny me my right of freedom of speech.
You should read the rules of AT, however, since about one more time of this hog-wash and you will be reported.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

One more rule I would like to see is that any boisterous antics, temper tantrums, and especially FOUL LANGUAGE be dealt with by automatic disqualification from that tournament or competition. If the same inidvidual has it happen again, then either a 6-month or worse SUSPENSION from sanctioned events should be administered. 
It shouldn't matter whether or not it is directed at a target; or directed at another individual competitor, group of competitors, or tournament officials. FOUL LANGUAGE of any kind should not be condoned; written or oral, or by gestures. Done deal, do it and you are outta the event.
It is time that people's language be toned down and that everyone conduct themselves without the use of the 4-letter words and vernacular so common-place these days.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Holy fecal matter, Field. 75% of the shooters wouldn't be able to utter a single word if you implement a rule like that. How would they be able to articulate their joy over a 12 or 14, their sorrow over mssing a dunk shot at 15 yds, their empathy at the their friend's misfortune at being robinhooded or their anger at getting beat by someone who must be a pencil pusher because they scored 12 up? Have pity on them for it must be due to their upbringing or societal influences and therefore out of their control...


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Oh, yeah. I don't like polls about things people don't like about 3D. Just quiet it down and shoot...


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

hdracer said:


> Holy fecal matter, Field. 75% of the shooters wouldn't be able to utter a single word if you implement a rule like that. How would they be able to articulate their joy over a 12 or 14, their sorrow over mssing a dunk shot at 15 yds, their empathy at the their friend's misfortune at being robinhooded or their anger at getting beat by someone who must be a pencil pusher because they scored 12 up? Have pity on them for it must be due to their upbringing or societal influences and therefore out of their control...


But, you must admit, hdracer, there is more to our language than the constant "F-bombs" and other vulgarities that are now being tossed around openly in front of women and children. What has happened to common decency. There are too many "Potty mouths" out there...and it has even crept into our classrooms in schools, too. The kids don't seem to know what a "dirty word" is, and many of them frankly don't really care either.

CONTROL of emotions and language has got to start somewhere.....how's about cleaning up our GAMES??? Free speech is one thing, but temper tantrums and utterances of filthy words out in public and in front of the women and kids...should be TABOO and dealt with severely. It has got to stop, or at least be curtailed, ha.

I know, fat chance of that happening...but the intentions would sure be good, and the threat of action, and then action taken when somebody "tests it" is all it would take to help reduce the instances.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

My bad....Guess the RULE that I suggested above isn't NEEDED....since they are ALREADY THERE!

Here is the Quote from the ASA TOURNAMENT RULES: Just looks like all that is really needed is stronger ENFORCEMENT.

Under COMPETITION COMMITTEE, Para. D:
"D. Unsportsmanlike conduct on the ranges or tournament grounds will not be tolerated.

1. Any incident of unsportsmanlike conduct will be reported to a tournament official who will file a report with the Competition Committee immediately following the completion of the day’s competition. The first offense upheld by the Committee will result in disqualification of the shooter from the event. A second offense will result in a suspension for the remainder of the season with no refund of any entry fees already paid.

2. Verbal abuse directed at tournament officials, other shooters, or spectators will result in immediate disqualification of the shooter from the tournament, along with a referral to the Competition Committee for further action.

3. The use of profanity is prohibited and violators are subject to disqualification. 

Pretty close to the AT forum rules, too.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Field I have not idea what your talking about. I notice you copied/pasted a post I made, but nowhere does it say or mention your name? 

Going to report me? For what? You sound like a kindergartner, " I'm going to tell, I'm going to tell.

But I do have a question that you still wont' answer. Why do you post comments on 3D when you don't shoot it?

You see tom, that’s what angers me about you. YOU attack us 3D shooters. Complain about having a semi pro class, umbies, chairs, etc. Why do you care? Tell me why you have a right to BEEP about what we do. HOW DOES IT AFFECT YOU? I don't go on the filed archery forum and complain. I Have no reason to. I don't shoot field archery. I have no problems with field archery nor with the folks that shoot field archery. If that is what they like do, more power to them.
But you’re different. Because you don't agree with the sub-culture of that exist among 3D archers (which you don’t belong to) you have to come on here and whine and cry.... this and that "isn’t right" which does not affect you at all. ? YOUR OBJECTIVE is NOTHING MORE TO insult and anger THE 3D SHOOTERS. IT MAKES YOU HAPPY WHEN YOU DO. These facts prove that your a 110% certified,” BEEP BEEP! You are what you are.

Want me to get off your case? I would love to, just stop complaining about us. Again, you don't shoot 3D archery, you don’t belong to any of the 3D orgs. So why do you care?
If you have a brain cell in your head, you should be able to figure it out.

PS My wife, best friend and I went to a 3D shoot today that was a 3hrs drive from home. Hope this doesn’t upset you too much, but we had a good time! We used our chairs and the forbidden umbie...guess what else Mr. Grinch 14, WE Were not THE ONLY Ones THERE! There were other familys and friends there too, and they also had chairs and umbies!


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

I think field14 is just tring to be the first to 10,000 posts!
Theres no other reason for him to post so many comment and be so opinionated?
He seems to think he's the authority on all types of archery....
He just does'nt know when to stop!!!!
Maybe he has a problem????


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

im done posting about it..not worth it...


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

nock tune said:


> I think field14 is just tring to be the first to 10,000 posts!
> Theres no other reason for him to post so many comment and be so opinionated?
> He seems to think he's the authority on all types of archery....
> He just does'nt know when to stop!!!!
> Maybe he has a problem????


Whatcha need is a musical interlude and to realize that archery in ALL phases is a spin off of "THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT">>>>>> Click the link, turn up the sound and get a "message."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpkkvNNo5bY&feature=related

Chill and have a cold one...

field14


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

asa_low12 said:


> Wouldn't this place be boring if we all agreed with each other


No it would not be boring. Sorry I just had to disagree with you.


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## repman444 (Aug 2, 2009)

i agree wholeheartedly.hell you dont use a range finder on some shots at live animals.learn to judge yardage.its not that hard


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

nock tune said:


> I think field14 is just tring to be the first to 10,000 posts!
> Theres no other reason for him to post so many comment and be so opinionated?
> He seems to think he's the authority on all types of archery....
> He just does'nt know when to stop!!!!
> Maybe he has a problem????


Jumping on the bandwagon, huh Nock? Every post on this website is an opinion. Some are better and more informed than others. Others are just knee-jerk reactions without any thought or research into the subject. 

As for your 10k post comment, it has already been done several times. Some are over 20K posts and getting close to 30k.




field14 said:


> But, you must admit, hdracer, there is more to our language than the constant "F-bombs" and other vulgarities that are now being tossed around openly in front of women and children. What has happened to common decency. There are too many "Potty mouths" out there...and it has even crept into our classrooms in schools, too. The kids don't seem to know what a "dirty word" is, and many of them frankly don't really care either.
> 
> CONTROL of emotions and language has got to start somewhere.....how's about cleaning up our GAMES??? Free speech is one thing, but temper tantrums and utterances of filthy words out in public and in front of the women and kids...should be TABOO and dealt with severely. It has got to stop, or at least be curtailed, ha.
> 
> ...


I agree, Field. Proper public decorum has gone out the window. I'm no angel--I work in a Harley shop where alot of our language would make a hooker blush. But it has no place in archery or any other family oriented sport. The same ones that use foul language and say they have a right to use it will be the first to threaten you if you use it in front of their family. You can't teach a frog to sing and so it is with many of our fellow competitors. But it needs to start somewhere.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

nock tune said:


> I think field14 is just tring to be the first to 10,000 posts!
> 
> 
> > I believe there was post in GAD stating DB hitting 50K


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

Hopperton said:


> No it would not be boring. Sorry I just had to disagree with you.


You beep beep troll. Why do you hate 3d?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

There is nothing I don't like about 3D. lain:


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## Stubby'smom (Mar 20, 2010)

> The only thing I don't like is it never last long enough. I could care less about pencil pusher, ones that stand at stake all day , kids and people making noise. I go to shoot my bow which I enjoy a lot and the only person I'm there to beat is me and enjoy a day of being with friends. Life is too short to take it so serious .


Agreed! I could care less about people who want to cheat. I am there to have fun and better my score. I love shooting with my hubby and kids.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I'll tell you what I don't like, the shooter that thinks that in the middle of a shoot he needs to tell you what you are doing wrong. Just a cheap way to get into someones head. To bad he don't have the opportunity to critique the other hundred or so shooters in the class.


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## Kateraman (Jan 26, 2011)

- bows shooting 300 fps plus in a 280 fps class
- dropping a target and calling it a shoot thur
- people talking while your on the stake
- people asking how you shot while there adding up their score


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## jasonposs (Jul 19, 2010)

i don like havin to wear a collared shirt to shoot


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## hoytaddict (May 25, 2006)

jasonposs said:


> i don like havin to wear a collared shirt to shoot


I'm with ya on that one. It gets hot as blazes down here in the south.


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## RONMARRIOTT (Apr 11, 2010)

I would not shoot without my group of guys! We shoot to hone hunting skills and have fun we are not serious about scores! If we were all that good we would go national !!!!!!!!!!!! You haven't heard of us cuz we aren't that level, cheaters know who they are so take the trophy and go home, you didn't win it you stold it! You know who you are! But don't expect praise from my group! We call a win a win! A cheater a cheater good luck and have fun with it or go home! But don't hold the line up!


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

I dont like to see 9 thru 12 year olds (cubs) shooting with a scope, side bars and a long front stabilizer. These kids parents are way too serious about their kids bringing home a trophy at any cost.


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## jimmycatfish (Oct 27, 2008)

I dont like people that lie for a better score or pincel push..


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

ILOVE3D said:


> I dont like to see 9 thru 12 year olds (cubs) shooting with a scope, side bars and a long front stabilizer. These kids parents are way too serious about their kids bringing home a trophy at any cost.


Honestly, whatever gets a bow in their hands and their hands off the X-box controller. :darkbeer:


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## shanehood (May 4, 2011)

I dont like paper shooters coming to 3d shoots and then criing about the shots were to hard.


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## hankw_2009 (Apr 2, 2009)

hey i agree with the bino post i wish they where banned it seems that there are golfers at all the shoots i go too that slow down the process of having fun..... before bino i use to be able to get two shoots in a day at local clubs.....

and i agree with the equipment post... i shoot IBO's AHC class and the last qualifier i went to i was teamed up with other AHC shooters but none of them where shooting screw in tips as per the rules.... i know i should have said some thing but i was not on home grounds to say and 3 to one is never good odds.....


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## hankw_2009 (Apr 2, 2009)

*but what i do like when the above stuff is not in place* is i have meet lots of folks who enjoy archery and have fun when they are doing it.....and you can never beat a nice walk through the woods....


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## bukhuntr (Aug 22, 2003)

wish it were like PINKS. RUN WHAT YA BRUNG! step up, take a look, draw back and let her fly. hate the bino guys and the golfers also
love challenging myself to do better each time.it's not usually the course the makes it bad. it's the slow pokes who turn it into a downer. just my .02


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## rs3711 (May 1, 2008)

I don't like the guys who take forever to shoot. If you are next to shoot, you should be standing behind the current shooter with your bow in your hand ready to go. Then, after you shoot, GET OFF THE STAKE!!!!! It is ILLEGAL to glass from the stake after you shoot.


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## Okie101 (Nov 1, 2009)

CutTheLoop said:


> Honestly, whatever gets a bow in their hands and their hands off the X-box controller. :darkbeer:


.....yep.....:set1_signs009:

About the only thing I don't like about 3d is, ticks...you just have that creepy crawly feeling on ya all day after you find one or two on ya....


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## superdean00 (Jul 23, 2008)

Pencil pushers. I usually place top 4 in Open around my area. All the guys that beat me in the Open division are good shots, so every now and then I'll slip in there and place 2nd or 3rd. BUT on me and my sons last shoot my lil man shot lights out. Turned in a outstanding score. Well the last group to shot had 2 children in my sons class. There dad looked over the scores turn in and went on to finsh the course. Well you quessed it. Lil man placed third. Every one there knew the pencil beat my son. Even while handing out awards people where telling my son to hold his head up cause you cant beat a pencil. I didnt know what to tell him. He had shot so good. He had practiced with me almost every day and really steped his game up. He even went up a class so he wouldn't just cherry pick the smaller children. It was all I could do to not say something to the other Dad. What makes it even worse me and my son saw both of the kids miss a target right in front of the cabin. So sad. Lil man took it well though. He said it dont matter Dad we shot good, HUH.


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## hoyt-tec2011 (Feb 11, 2006)

Hey man I know how you feel I went to a shoot and there were some guys from Korea. The dad was ahead and the kid was in my class in my group the target behind him. The only time they would speak Korean was right when he was adjusting his sight kinda obvious he was telling him what to set it at. Bad thing was still beat him by ten points haha. And the 12 year olds with scopes and v bars well that was me and I love archery been shooting since I was four and if I want to use every birthday and Christmas present to get me a nice rig I have the right just like every other kid just saying sometimes the kids actually do want it. We especially want to out shoot our dad who bought us those nice things


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

I have been shooting 3D before it was called 3D they were called bowhunter shoots in my neck of the woods in the 70s and early 80s then in the late 80s they were called 3D our club used to make our targets from card board then ethafoam then we bought some critter factory targets in 89 we hit the big time!.I here some of you talking clickers and you dont like them what is a clicker?.I dont like cheaters in any archery shoot period, dont like whinners,remember its suppose to be fun.And get you childern involved nothing better than seeing a childs eyey light up as his arrow reaches its mark.My son is in his mid 20s and we try to shoot as much as we can because we love archery.


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## TOMMYY01 (Oct 21, 2003)

Im hate people who whine alot. and I don't care for cheaters either.:thumbs_do I'm shooting open this year and my 1st score was a 175 with 20 targets. Sure I want to shoot better, but it will come. I want to have fun. I shot NBH last season. It seems lately, that some people get mad at others because of WHATEVER! My God, get a freaking life!!:angry: I know that I'll never knock some one out of the top 3. But someday, I get fourth place!:bartstush::set1_applaud:


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## Mr.Moose (Sep 15, 2011)

Too much negativity....Can't we all just shoot and have fun.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I dislike not having one set of nationally recognized rules that rule 3D like other sports that are growing such as golf , football, baseball, even darts! To many rules for different organizations and each club has their own take on the rules. A sport can't grow like it should ran without one unified set of rules! I do like collared shirts and a speed limit!


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## jag9177 (Jan 24, 2011)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> People who think you can buy wins with equipment or think other people win because of their equipment.


Amen brother!!!


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## jag9177 (Jan 24, 2011)

VeroShooter said:


> Wow it looks like there isn't much to like about 3d I don't think I'll ever try that game now.


Dont let peoples stupidity keep you from trying something new. Its an awesome sport with some awesome people, just there are to many whiners. Thats y i like to show those up


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## coachmo32 (Apr 2, 2009)

The one thing that bothers me the most is when im at the stake shooting and one of the shooters in my group stands right behind me glassing and talking.


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## pwyrick (Feb 13, 2011)

Mr.Moose said:


> Too much negativity....Can't we all just shoot and have fun.


Yes, we can all just shoot and have fun. Most clubs have a recreational class just for fun. But for the competitive classes, it's not fun when some shooters will sacrifice their integrity to win $5. I do not understand what people get out of saying they won or placed when they cheated to do so. Are our egos so fragile that we'll take a win at the price of who we are. Oh, when we cheat like that, I guess that is who we really are.


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## APA21 (Nov 15, 2010)

> I dont like paper shooters coming to 3d shoots and then criing about the shots were to hard.


I hate that to.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

pwyrick said:


> Yes, we can all just shoot and have fun. Most clubs have a recreational class just for fun. But for the competitive classes, it's not fun when some shooters will sacrifice their integrity to win $5. I do not understand what people get out of saying they won or placed when they cheated to do so. Are our egos so fragile that we'll take a win at the price of who we are. Oh, when we cheat like that, I guess that is who we really are.


There seems to be alot of questionable people in our area....


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## still searchin (Nov 19, 2009)

I love to shoot the the courses I just get sick of the guys who look down on people.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

hoytaddict said:


> I'm with ya on that one. It gets hot as blazes down here in the south.





jasonposs said:


> i don like havin to wear a collared shirt to shoot


Are you refering to national shoots or local shoots?


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Quote Originally Posted by VeroShooter View Post
Wow it looks like there isn't much to like about 3d I don't think I'll ever try that game now.


_
jag's post : Dont let peoples stupidity keep you from trying something new. Its an awesome sport with some awesome people, just there are to many whiners. Thats y i like to show those up



Just thought I would tell you.....He shoots 3d nationally......as well he is my Southern Florida ASA area rep... ....._


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