# So just how fast is your TRADITIONAL bow?



## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

The Chrony thread has me wondering "Just how fast is your bow"? This is for TRADITIONAL bows only so we don't get a bunch of misleading data. Please include your draw weight, draw length, arrow weight and if your data has been verified with a chronograph or just where your data came from.

I'll start it off - Hoyt Excel w/ TT Blackmax limbs 40#@28" drawn to 28", Shooting 375 grain arrows - 165 fps with Dacron string, 170 fps with D97. Through my Shooting Chrony Brand Chronograph at 2 yards.


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## hawghunter2585 (Mar 16, 2010)

Leon Stewart Slammer Special Longbow - 57#@28" drawn to 27", 450grn arrow - 175fps, verified with chrono


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Center, I have the same bow with 50lb limbs, I'll try it as soon as it stops raining.


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## whitewolf1 (Jun 28, 2006)

My hunting bow I built is [email protected]" and thru the chrony at the local shop I was 188-190 over 7 or 8 shots with a 540grn hunting arrow.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I've only chronographed one of mine, my Chek-Mate Crusader longbow. 66", [email protected]", with arrows that averaged approximately 625 grains (9.5 gpp). If I remember correctly, the average was 187 fps.

Haven't done it in several years--battery is dead in the chrony. I may get a new battery for it and try again, just for giggles. My arrows go through animals, so I don't worry about it.

Chad


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

TradTech Titan with Winex long pulling 56# @ 32". 500-grain carbons (plus or minus a couple grains) through the chronograph at 200 fps (give or take 1 fps).


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Bow's I am playing with now 

Fedora 560 one piece 55# at 26 inches shooting 535 grain arrow at average 193 to 194 fps 

Hoyt Buffalo 62 # at my draw 600 grain arrow 186 fps


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## Night Wing (Feb 4, 2009)

My specs for both of my recurves, including speed, are in my signature.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Either I'm missing something or some of the chrony numbers here are misleading? 

A chrony's on my wish list, after a drum sander... and gas:lol:.


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## DeerSpotter (Jan 29, 2007)

mine go's 60 MPH in my truck !


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## La Wildman (Mar 9, 2010)

Black Widow PSR II...58" .....52lb's @28".....198 fps


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## Roger Sr. (Feb 15, 2009)

Morrison 13" metal riser with long Dryad Epic bamboo core longbow limbs 41# 310gr arrow 211fps


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## bountyhunter (Sep 7, 2007)

Never gave it much thought. My bows are quiet, I shoot them well and my heavy arrow will give me through and through penetration on deer and hogs. In other words I could really care less how fast any of my bows are, it is not a drag race and I never had a deer ask "Ouch, how fast was that arrow?"


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

my warf i made= [email protected] averages 176 with a 376 gr arrow and a clicker (9.4 gpp)
my osage selfbow shoots 140
my voodookustum r/d longbow flings an arrow 180fps at 8 gpp


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

bountyhunter said:


> Never gave it much thought. My bows are quiet, I shoot them well and my heavy arrow will give me through and through penetration on deer and hogs. In other words I could really care less how fast any of my bows are, it is not a drag race and I never had a deer ask "Ouch, how fast was that arrow?"


the deer dont care or ask, but the starter of this thread did


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## voodoofire1 (Jan 24, 2006)

Well, it's fast enough........when my friends pull my arrows, takes two hands, they may pass a little gas and usually get a pinkish hue to their face too.....and sometimes you can hear a holy crap being uttered ..........plenty fast enough for me............


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## bountyhunter (Sep 7, 2007)

trapperDave said:


> the deer dont care or ask, but the starter of this thread did


Yep he did, and my opinion is there is way too much focus on speed when there is a lot of other things folks should be concerned with. Speed is a thing for the folks with training wheels, not traditional gear. Even the traditional bows of today will never be fast enough to shoot some of the light arrows I see people testing with where they are truly effective on game animals. The bottom line is if all you are going to do is shoot competitions, then have at it with the light and fast, but if you are going to hunt, build a setup that will properly kill your game.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Thanks bounty, but that is for another thread. Simple question, answer or don't - pretty easy.


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## Runningbuck (Mar 11, 2009)

Morrison Cheyenne 60" 52# shooting 545 grain arrow 180FPS Morrison Shawnee 62" 52# shooting 545 grain arrow 177FPS Most of my bows are 52 lb and I try to keep my arrows around the 530 to 545 grain weight. I draw 28 inches. I have four other bows(Black Widow,RER) that fall in the 177 to 182FPS. I make up all my own strings with 8125, 12 strand with padded loops to 18


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## warped Arrow (Sep 20, 2005)

bountyhunter said:


> Yep he did, and my opinion is there is way too much focus on speed when there is a lot of other things folks should be concerned with. Speed is a thing for the folks with training wheels, not traditional gear.


So what your saying is that all trad bows should be slow?? Not so my friend.



bountyhunter said:


> The bottom line is if all you are going to do is shoot competitions, then have at it with the light and fast, but if you are going to hunt, build a setup that will properly kill your game.


I agree, partially. I shoot compititions with my hunting rig.

I need to chrony my bows, I have no idea what their speed is.


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## bountyhunter (Sep 7, 2007)

warped Arrow said:


> So what your saying is that all trad bows should be slow?? Not so my friend.


That depends on what you call slow and what you call fast. Compared to compounds, yes all trad bows are slow!!!!!


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## Outback Man (Nov 21, 2009)

Bear takedown in my signature...arrows are weiging in around 475-485 grains I believe and I'm hitting around 52# at my draw...and getting a blazing 176 fps...but that's fast enough to get the job done.


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## Daidohead (Dec 21, 2010)

My home made red oak special; 75" 46# @ 30", Just slightly faster than I can throw them.


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## Grim76 (Feb 2, 2011)

speed is fine......


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## me shoot (Jan 5, 2011)

bow I made 54#@28" shoots 500gr. wood arrow through chron. 158fps.


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## DwayneR (Feb 23, 2004)

I have a Martin, 45# 535 grain arrows Shoots 145 FPS


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Kegan,

If I built as many bows as you, I'd opt for the drum sander. I thought about getting one years ago, but then I crunched the numbers to see how many lams I'd have to grind to break even. So much for that purchase.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Kegan,
> 
> If I built as many bows as you, I'd opt for the drum sander. I thought about getting one years ago, but then I crunched the numbers to see how many lams I'd have to grind to break even. So much for that purchase.


I don't buy the lams, but cut them from boards (not sure if you're buying your lams, just guessing). I'm using a jointer and so far it's driving me nuts, gouging and eating up any lam that had a slight swirl. Had my first failure becaue of a gouge last weekend on a 45# bow. There's a 10" Grizzly sander for $450 with shipping, seems cheap enough?

Aside from buying what are other options for lams?


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## bearauto11 (Apr 7, 2010)

Kegan,
I'm sure you've seen this around at various sites. I stole the idea from all sorts of places. But, I've used this set-up I made with my belt sander for a couple of sets of lams. It's working pretty good. I would sure like the drum sander myself, but it's hard to afford it right now.









Good luck,
--Tom


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## rebelfootball73 (Dec 3, 2010)

man all of there trad bows are shooting faster than my first compound bow (165) and that was 65 pounds and 31 inch draw. wonder what my old recurve will chrono at


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

My target trad bow is quick and noisy.

My hunting bow might make 175FPS if fired forward out of a moving vehicle with a tailwind, but its bloody silent.

-Grant


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

kegan said:


> I don't buy the lams, but cut them from boards (not sure if you're buying your lams, just guessing). I'm using a jointer and so far it's driving me nuts, gouging and eating up any lam that had a slight swirl. Had my first failure becaue of a gouge last weekend on a 45# bow. There's a 10" Grizzly sander for $450 with shipping, seems cheap enough?
> 
> Aside from buying what are other options for lams?


I used to buy mine from Bingham's and Old Master Crafters. Jointers are great for working down and tapering slats for bamboo-backed bows, but not a good choice when you're trying to make laminations to be glued into fiberglass-laminated limbs.

With respect to the Grizzly sander; I've never used one but heard great things about them from others who've ground lamination on them.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

J. Wesbrock said:


> I used to buy mine from Bingham's and Old Master Crafters. Jointers are great for working down and tapering slats for bamboo-backed bows, but not a good choice when you're trying to make laminations to be glued into fiberglass-laminated limbs.
> 
> With respect to the Grizzly sander; I've never used one but heard great things about them from others who've ground lamination on them.


That's been my experience so far. The jointer is what we had, so it's what I used. I actually had issue with it on bamboo backings too. It worked with the straightest grained, most carefully selected bow lams but this is just getting to be a pain. 

With all the praise the Grizzly 10" is getting I figured if I had to get something new for grinding lams might as well go for that one.

Bearauto- I've seen that and heard good things about the set up, but considering either way I'd need to buy a new sander I figured might as well "go big or go home". Besides, my brother and father are into carpentry as well and could make use of a drum sander too, rather than a fourth type of belt sander hanging around the crowded shop


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## feathermax ed (Jun 29, 2010)

the animals i might shoot figure out how fast it is


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## bearauto11 (Apr 7, 2010)

Kegan,
What sort of belt sanders do you have at home? Because I've seen setups with horizontal sanders as well.
--Tom


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

My little bow shoots about 396FPS with 2117 full length. with 2219 its about 115 but its all based on my intelligence and no chrono


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

bearauto11 said:


> Kegan,
> What sort of belt sanders do you have at home? Because I've seen setups with horizontal sanders as well.
> --Tom


My father has a couple big two handed sanders and I have a small oscillating spindle/belt sander combo by Rigid. I've thought about setting my sander up with a kig to run lams but every attempt has led me to thinking I might just be best served getting the drum sander- especially if I'm considering trying to make more to sell as well as for myself and friends.


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## bearauto11 (Apr 7, 2010)

I agree that the drum sander would be awesome, but I've seen a few forum posts where the rigid sander was used as a lam grinder with a fence on the big end of the sander and the lamination is sent through on edge. 
Also check out this link for an cheap grinder using a spindle in a drill press.
http://www.piratesofarchery.net/bb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3125
--Tom


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## Leafwalker (Oct 7, 2008)

I've got a bamboo-backed ipe bow I just finished, 46# @ 28" (51# @ my 30" draw length) that'll send a 31" 500gr aluminum arrow 155 fps.


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## papahoyt (Aug 10, 2009)

My allegeny mt at 54lb 32in draw shoots 199fps.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Howard Hill osage longbow 68" long and 80# @ 27" (my actual draw length) 192fps with 505 grain wooden arrows and 205 fps with 455 grain carbon arrows. Bow has FF string and no string silencers. This is my favorite bow and I've been shooting it for over 12 years. I have many other Hills of similar weight and they all shoot about the same speed regardless of core material.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

mighty lite arrows at about 6gpp


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## kevinfoerster (Jul 10, 2009)

163 fps with a 495 grain arrow, out of a 40lb samick sage.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

trapperDave said:


> mighty lite arrows at about 6gpp


Yes it is but I've never paid any attention to forumlas or old wive's tales. What's important to me is arrow flight and grouping. Believe it or not, I shoot Beman 500s cut to 27.5" carrying 100 grain brass inserts and 125 grain points for 455 grains out of my heaviest Hill bows. They shoot like laser beams. Have done this for years and never hurt a bow. 

I hunt with wooden arrows of only 500-520 grains and shoot through deer and hogs and little things like that. Have never tried to kill a really large animal. Maybe I'd go heavier in Africa if I ever hunted there.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

177fps from hoyt excel with TT 50lbs limbs. Arrow is easton excel 500 spine, 30 inches with 100 grain tips. About 350 grains total. I shot 10 arrows, lowest was 176fps with the other 9 at 177fps.


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## Okie1bow (Jul 26, 2006)

PSE X-Factor, 38# at 28" with ACE 400's....216 Ft./ Sec. [FITA]
BW 1200 HB/TD.; A 1968 version;48#'s at 28"and 52" long with CF's and soft vains....179 Ft./Sec. [Hunting and 3D] instinctive only. I love that BW so much I had it totally restored and updated with a little more modern materials.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

centershot said:


> The Chrony thread has me wondering "Just how fast is your bow"? This is for TRADITIONAL bows only so we don't get a bunch of misleading data. Please include your draw weight, draw length, arrow weight and if your data has been verified with a chronograph or just where your data came from.
> 
> I'll start it off - Hoyt Excel w/ TT Blackmax limbs 40#@28" drawn to 28", Shooting 375 grain arrows - 165 fps with Dacron string, 170 fps with D97. Through my Shooting Chrony Brand Chronograph at 2 yards.


Typically most of my bows are in the 170 to 180 range. 

Aloha... :beer:


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## WRC 51 (Sep 11, 2010)

For me "Speed is nothing without control". Iam still working on the control.:mg:


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## Kenny G (May 18, 2004)

17 years ago I cronoed my 46# Sky at the range I shot at, it smoked a 2113! Most of the top shooters at that time thought it was super fast, it cronoed at 165. Pretty slow by todays standards I guess. I still shoot that bow and I still think it is fast. I don't care to crono my Winexes or any of my other bows. Keegan, we have alot of Grizzly stuff at our shop and we have had many problems with the switches, its a good thing our wood shop manager is an amizing fix it guy or we would have alot of scrape metal.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Made a 12 strand string D 75 and shot it without silencers and picked up about 4fps. 181fps average. Not near enough chnage to matter in the least.


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## rraming (Aug 5, 2006)

I've owned 5 bows in the last 7 years, recurves and longbows (RD longbows) shooting 9-11 grains per lb and pulling 49-55lbs they all shot between 145-168fps with D97 string (no skinny strings either). I draw 28" - wood and carbon arrows.


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## chep (Jan 27, 2009)

The fastest and flattest shooting bow I ever had was a Sapphire Hawk made by Sapphire Traditional Archery in Montana. 

Fast doesn't really mean a lot to me though. I liked the Hawk but sold it to a friend who was dead set on buying it from me. Most of the time the bows I shoot are about 170 FPS with my setup. The critters seem to prefer being hit with my slow bows. I am more accurate with one specific bow than all others. I guess it depends on what matters to you. If fast is of tantamount importance or if you would also like to be as accurate as possible at all distances with a particular bow and if you feel comfortable with it. One advantage of a fast bow is that they tend to shoot flatter.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

x2 on the Sapphire Hawk. My OL Adcock ACS CX was Chrono'd with a 395gr arrow at 214 FPS, which is super fast, but I think my "hawk" is as fast, although I have not chrono'd it. My Curt Brisky 60# Osage bow shoots a whopping 160 FPS but I like it also. For shooting 3D the Hawk or my Bigfoot which is just as quick, are what I use.


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## erictetterton (Jan 22, 2011)

My BW PSRx 49#@28 495gr arrow @ 162fps


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

tinkered with my warf a bit today. heres what she does with PSE competition limbs..

Its 40#@28 with a clicker set at 28
6.75gpp=195fps
8.75gpp=178fps
10gpp=170fps


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

Old 1968 Shakespeare Necedah/Kaibab recurves ([email protected]), old 29 inch Micro-Flite #7 arrows (500g), 150 fps at my 26 inch draw.

Noticed on newer bows, difference between a 16 strand Dacron and a 10 strand DF97 string could be 20 fps.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

Put my 35 yr old Ben Pearson thru the chrono today.. at 7 gpp she was spittin em at 173fps with a FF string


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## Pikkuhannu (Apr 3, 2009)

Grozer TRH Turkish 70#@28" and Kassai Bear 80#@30" both 180fps with 500gr carbon arrows. My dl maybe 27,5" and i shoot with thumbring.
Kassai i get same results also with 700gr aluminium, Grozer little slower.

Both with dacron string.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Just tested mine yesterday (thanks Dale and Ron...).

:icon_salut:

TradTech Titan / TradTech Extreme BF limbs. 46# at 28", 12 strand Ultra-Cam string, cat whiskers, arrows @ 8.3gpp = 193 pfs.

KPC


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## gobblengrunt (May 23, 2006)

pittsley classic predator
45# @ 26"
8 st d10 sbd string w/ silencers
28" trad only 500 with 175 gr tip and 5" feathers w/ wrap (450 gr total w/ 18.5% foc) shot off the shelf with small "furniture pad" rest
shoots 182 fps 
quiet, forgiving, and accurate setup!


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Pikkuhannu said:


> Grozer TRH Turkish 70#@28" and Kassai Bear 80#@30" both 180fps with 500gr carbon arrows. My dl maybe 27,5" and i shoot with thumbring.
> Kassai i get same results also with 700gr aluminium, Grozer little slower.
> 
> Both with dacron string.


These speeds with such heavy draw weights surprise me considering how light the arrows are. On the slow side I tend to think. Especially for what I believe are recurves? My Hill straight-limb bows of 80 pounds are much faster with 520 grain arrows. All shoot over 190 fps. I have to wonder if you are drawing to full bow weight. Many folks say they are shooting a bow that's 50# @ 28" but only draw 26" or something short like this. They are not shooting anything like 50 pounds.

Your speeds are rather sluggish for weight so I have to think you are drawing short. Not meaning to degrade your equipment, it's just that your speeds jump out at me as slow for such heavy tackle and light arrows.

Stupid me. I just noticed you mention 27.5" draw length. Your speeds now seem pretty good. My bad.


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## cth (Oct 31, 2009)

Interesting thread. 15 years ago I had a 50 lb. Martin Hunter recurve. With approx 525 gr. total weight cedars at about 27.5 inch draw it chronoed at 173 fps. The higher end bows at that time were about 10-12 fps faster. Anything 170 fps and above for a hunting arrow I think is fast.

Going thru the thread I was using 10 gpp as a standard to evaluate the relative speeds of the bows. Lots of nice bows to chose from nowadays.


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## MKNOX (Jul 8, 2007)

Hoyt Gamemaster 50#@28" drawn to 56#@30" shoots a 475gr arrow 177fps average through the Chrony.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I went out this afternoon and shot a very few 7.3gpi shafts, 30 inches long with 50 grain points. My 50lb hoyt excel with TT carbon limbs did 196fps. But the arrow is too light although it's tempting as a 3D setup.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Eldermike said:


> I went out this afternoon and shot a very few 7.3gpi shafts, 30 inches long with 50 grain points. My 50lb hoyt excel with TT carbon limbs did 196fps. But the arrow is too light although it's tempting as a 3D setup.


It's not too light at all. Maybe for hunting it's too light but surely not for targets. I shoot at a much lower rate than this and have for years to get high velocity. Don't listen to everything written about trad archery and arrow weight. I happen to believe the compound guys have this arrow weight thing more correct than we do. Go light and go fast for flat trajectory. It makes hitting at unknown distances so much easier.

I stay right around 6 grains per pound and have gone lighter (5.5) with my longbows to reach speeds over 200 fps with no problems with the bows. 

If you can group well with your light arrows indeed you should try them for 3D. 3D is target shooting not hunting.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> It's not too light at all. Maybe for hunting it's too light but surely not for targets. I shoot at a much lower rate than this and have for years to get high velocity. Don't listen to everything written about trad archery and arrow weight. I happen to believe the compound guys have this arrow weight thing more correct than we do. Go light and go fast for flat trajectory. It makes hitting at unknown distances so much easier.
> 
> I stay right around 6 grains per pound and have gone lighter (5.5) with my longbows to reach speeds over 200 fps with no problems with the bows.
> 
> If you can group well with your light arrows indeed you should try them for 3D. 3D is target shooting not hunting.


They group great! I shot a few back to 35 yards and hit shafts together in the target.


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## appalachianhunt (Feb 5, 2011)

202 fps baby! 712 grain arrow 57 lbs at 28 inches fedora excellerator!


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

appalachianhunt said:


> 202 fps baby! 712 grain arrow 57 lbs at 28 inches fedora excellerator!


I don't believe this. Sorry. Not with a 712 grain arrow. I'll buy such speed with arrows under 500 grains but not over 700. Been shooting and timing all kinds of bows for many years and your claim is way out of line with even some exceptional bows I've chronoed. Try to remember some guys on this forum actually do know a little bit before you fabricate such rubbish.

Or maybe it's a typo? In which case I apologize.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Eldermike, if you have a normal or shortish draw you can use any 500 shaft and play with point weight and get good flight from most any bow up to 70 pounds. But only if you have a draw under about 29 inches. I shoot 27.5 inch 500s out of my heaviest longbows and get speeds a little over 200 fps and fantastic grouping. Better than with my best wooden or alloy arrows. Best I've ever achieved. You also get a flat arrow that allows you a better chance on long targets at 3D. Give this a try with no apologies to anyone.

I would not worry about hurting your bows either. I've got a Hill bow of 80# I've shot many thousands of times with arrows under 500 grains with no damage. I've played with an old Martin Hunter of 75# off and on for years shooting 375 grain carbons at 225 fps. I don't shoot the recurve well but enjoy the laser beam arrow speed at long distance. It's almost like shooting a compound barebow. Again, the old Martin is none the worse for wear. I no longer believe most of what I read about arrow weight as related to traditional archery. I lean toward the compound crowd even if it makes me throw up in my mouth to admit it. LOL


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> I don't believe this. Sorry. Not with a 712 grain arrow. I'll buy such speed with arrows under 500 grains but not over 700. Been shooting and timing all kinds of bows for many years and your claim is way out of line with even some exceptional bows I've chronoed. Try to remember some guys on this forum actually do know a little bit before you fabricate such rubbish.
> 
> Or maybe it's a typo? In which case I apologize.


Mike makes a fast bow..... I have 4 of them but that is incredible if it isn't a typo


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

*


appalachianhunt said:



202 fps baby! 712 grain arrow 57 lbs at 28 inches fedora excellerator!

Click to expand...

*I might believe that...if you're drawing it to 36 inches.

:wink:

Otherwise, at 12.5 gpp... not a chance.

KPC


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

GEREP said:


> I might believe that...if you're drawing it to 36 inches.
> 
> :wink:
> 
> ...


X2. The best bows of today are just barely scratching at the 200 fps border with a 10 gpp arrow at 28". If there was a bow that fast folks would figure out the design and employ those features.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

appalachianhunt said:


> 202 fps baby! 712 grain arrow 57 lbs at 28 inches fedora excellerator!


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## appalachianhunt (Feb 5, 2011)

well actually its not a typo maybe if ppl knew how to tune arrows to bows instead of bows to arrows they could get these sppeds too speed knocks and cat whiskers help too and why do you think they call the fe\doras excellerators? a 712 grain arrow with forward weight flys as fast as a 4-500 grain arrow with distributed wheight


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Have you shot through different chronographs? If you can have that speed documented, I'm sure it will set several records. Nobody else has come close, not even with a naked string and shot with a Hooter Shooter. 

200 fps with 10 GPP drawn to 28" has been the "Holy Grail" bowyers have been chasing for years and years--as far as I know, nobody has been able to document even that yet. The designs that will come close are generally too squirrley for anyone to shoot accurately.

Chad


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I got 196fps with 6,5GPP. Same bow at 12GPP is 161fps.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

appalachianhunt said:


> well actually its not a typo maybe if ppl knew how to tune arrows to bows instead of bows to arrows they could get these sppeds too speed knocks and cat whiskers help too and why do you think they call the fe\doras excellerators? a 712 grain arrow with forward weight flys as fast as a 4-500 grain arrow with distributed wheight


Two suggestions: use a different chronograph, because the one you used isn't accurate; and whoever told you that last part must think the laws of physics don't apply to archery.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

We have just found the fastest longbow in the world, actually a bow which is not even close to being theoretically possible. Congratulations, now lets get back to bows which exist.

LBR: the 10gpp and 200fps mark has been hit a few times, but none of the bows were very friendly to shoot. Lots of cool info on the Pirates forum.

-Grant


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

http://www.piratesofarchery.net/bb/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=6849


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

appalachianhunt said:


> well actually its not a typo maybe if ppl knew how to tune arrows to bows instead of bows to arrows they could get these sppeds too speed knocks and cat whiskers help too and why do you think they call the fe\doras excellerators? a 712 grain arrow with forward weight flys as fast as a 4-500 grain arrow with distributed wheight


Where the weight is located on the arrow has absolutely no affect on how an arrow is made to accelerate while on the string. You can argue weight forward helps an arrow penetrate an object but it has nothing to do with lightening its apparent launch weight. This is comic to even suggest.

As for cat whiskers or any other kind of string silencer speeding up an arrow? No way, no how. They do the exact opposite and slow down the string by acting like a parachute behind a race car. The fact you don't understand this is very telling and makes me further understand you are not quite accurate with your bow speed claim. When you tell a fib, at least base it on some kind of scientific fabric we can a least swallow a little bit.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

According to the link, nobody got 200 fps with 10 gpp. I don't doubt it could happen, but like you noted--very unfriendly to shoot--it would be a bragging rights bow only, not one that would sell or anyone would care to use. Low brace heights on those bows also--any of them set up to hunt (silencers, etc.)?

Chad


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

LBR said:


> According to the link, nobody got 200 fps with 10 gpp. I don't doubt it could happen, but like you noted--very unfriendly to shoot--it would be a bragging rights bow only, not one that would sell or anyone would care to use. Low brace heights on those bows also--any of them set up to hunt (silencers, etc.)?
> 
> Chad


Right you are, I was looking in the wrong column.

I'd love to see a Border bow in there, they build some extremely fast limbs which also happen to be very forgiving.

For me the most telling sign of a bow's efficiency is how quickly it picks up speed when you start dropping arrow weight. An efficient bow will really pull away as the weight goes down.

-Grant


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Hoyt Nexus 66" 42# 29" draw 310gr Easton lightspeed 500 205fps


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

appalachianhunt said:


> well actually its not a typo maybe if ppl knew how to tune arrows to bows instead of bows to arrows they could get these sppeds too speed knocks and cat whiskers help too and why do you think they call the fe\doras excellerators? a 712 grain arrow with forward weight flys as fast as a 4-500 grain arrow with distributed wheight


Everything I've learned over the years about archery, bow tuning, bow building, and physics has been a lie!?!? Oh no


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## Boberau (Dec 15, 2009)

Grim76 said:


> speed is fine......


More speed means greater accuracy at distance in hunting situations. The question is what type of arrow drop does one get with a difference between 28 yards and 30 yards. If that drop is too much, misjudging the distance to your game animal by two yards will lead to a wounded deer.

As for me, I don't own a cronograph. But, the subject interests me.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Hey, we might be onto something here. Just for he heck of it, I shot a shovel through my Titan and I got *288 fps.*

:mg:

The total weight of the shovel is 33,954 grains (that's a little over 738 gpp with my setup) but almost all of the weight is up front.

Dang, that's why I love this place...you learn something every day.

:teeth:

KPC


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> More speed means greater accuracy at distance in hunting situations.


A few years ago had a good friend of mine argue that with me, as his reason for spending a lot of money on an ILF rig and then shooting very light arrows from it. Soon afterward, we shot a course together--he with his "high speed" rig (and it was very fast, expecially shooting around 5 gpp) and me shooting my old longbow and arrows that were right at 10 gpp. Every time we came to a longer shot (25 yds plus), he shot low. I out-shot him by quite a bit--I did just fine on the longer shots.

My point being, speed is no more a magic bullet than anything else. You still have to do your part.

Ironically, he shot the same tournament (the TN Classic--a big one) a couple weekends ago with his selfbow and won that class--go figure. FWIW, he's an outstanding shot with any bow...when he does his part.

Chad


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## appalachianhunt (Feb 5, 2011)

you all have no idea what uyour tlking about


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Whatever--you'll get similar remarks on any site you make that claim on. At least some of us give you the benefit of the doubt--you've got a faulty chrony (you did shoot through a chrony, didn't you?), and someone has fed you a big line of bull about F.O.C., speed nocks, and cat whiskers...either that, or you have an over-active imagination.

I'm willing to believe you were just mislead. That's happened to us all at one point or another--shoot, some people have built their business around such.

Chad


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

appalachianhunt said:


> you all have no idea what uyour tlking about


Do you have ANY proof of your bow shooting that fast with such a heavy arrow? How about any proof that arrows with such a high FOC fly just as fast as lighter arrows? If you do I'll gladly offer you a whole-hearted apology for everything I've said. Until then I'm hesitant about believing anything that goes against thousands of years of evidence to suggest otherwise.

I think you were under the wrong impression but now refuse to admit it.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

GEREP said:


> Hey, we might be onto something here. Just for he heck of it, I shot a shovel through my Titan and I got *288 fps.*
> 
> :mg:
> 
> ...


You gonna need some really big fletchings.


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## DwayneR (Feb 23, 2004)

appalachianhunt said:


> you all have no idea what uyour tlking about


 No, we know exactly what we are talking about. Some of us have been shooting for 30+ years, Seen about every bow there is, and know how to shoot.

Your claim of your amazing bow outstretches all Traditional bows made. . .and even some compounds.

Since you claim this feat. . .
Since you claim it is not a typo. . .
Since you claim we are do not know what we are talking about. . .

One of two things must be true. . .

1. We are all dummies, misinformed, have shot for years, and yet don't know a thing about bows.
2. You made up a tale and got caught in it, thus you can't back out because of your reputation/ego.

Now, my suggestion is. . .

I seriously doubt if all of us are dummies and are misinformed.
Admit to your errors, let it pass by, and start from scratch. It is better to start from scratch than to hold a bogus story as truth because of ego.

Welcome to the forum by the way. Glad you are here.

Dwayne
You are claiming we are all dummies (which is a large number of us).


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

the meter never lies


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Eldermike said:


> You gonna need some really big fletchings.


Actually, no. That's the amazing thing about all the weight forward. Not only does it defy the laws of physics, but it bucks aerodynamics, gravity, and logic too.



KPC


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

My Hills, Belchers and Milers are all about 52# at my 27" draw ... they all shoot my 525gn woodies, alloys and carbons at about 150fps ...


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## appalachianhunt (Feb 5, 2011)

well when you take 3 world archery titles come talk to me we true and professional archers know things about tuning these bows you couldnt figure out if you spent your life tuning


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## DwayneR (Feb 23, 2004)

appalachianhunt said:


> well when you take 3 world archery titles come talk to me we true and professional archers know things about tuning these bows you couldnt figure out if you spent your life tuning


 I ranked 8th in the nation 10 years ago. . there are others out here that rank #1 today. I have coached for 30 years. . .shot every score in the 270's (Never hit the 280 barebow, but I know of one on this forum that has) PS: any 280 will rank you in the top 3. . .GUARANTEED.

You dug yourself into a hole, and making up stories and sticking to total :bs: , just shows tells us you cannot "man up" to the stories you have made up. Give it up, start from scratch, and enjoy the forum. 

Dwayne (Just got through chrono my 1000 grain 1917 arrows with inserts at 220 FPS. through my 35 pound Hoyt Sun. )


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

appalachianhunt said:


> well when you take 3 world archery titles come talk to me we true and professional archers know things about tuning these bows you couldnt figure out if you spent your life tuning


Can I just ask which titles they are that you are referring to ? I'm a bit of an archery 'buff so always enjoy tournament stats etc ...


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

appalachianhunt said:


> well when you take 3 world archery titles come talk to me we true and professional archers know things about tuning these bows you couldnt figure out if you spent your life tuning














here we go again......


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

Some no BS info w no BS setup (9 gpp, 28 inch draw, 7-8 inch brace, feathers, fingers, 14s Dacron/16s FF, etc):

Longbows
Internature Viper 170 FF
Ragim/Martin Fox/L100 175 FF
Bear Montana 175 FF
BearPaw/Kustom King Raven 175 FF
Martin Savannah 180 FF
A&H ACS CX 190 FF

Recurves
1968 Bear Grizzly 175 D
1968 Shakespeare Necedah 175 D
Samick Sage 170 D/175 FF
Martin Dreamcatcher 175 D/180 FF
Bear TD 175 D/180 FF
TradTech Titan 190 FF

Nothing over 200 fps, but our nocks are prolly too tight, our release plucky, and we ain't no world champs who know how to tune 'em up right...


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## timduvall (Mar 18, 2008)

One thing you have to standardize is testing. You can't shoot one bow with a Dacron string, another with a fast flight string..one bow pulled 28", one pulled 30", one shot fingers, another shot with a machine....ect. i've tested a lot of bows myself and have researched others testings. Using a STANDARD of 28" draw, 16 strand fast flight string, 9gpp arrow, shot fingers...95% of the recurves and high performance longbows are going to show 185-188 FPS. I've only seen a couple bows break 190..one was a Palmer, the other a Predator (and these were 191-192 FPS). Straight limb longbows are going to be in the 170 range..again, i'm not saying that there aren't bows out there that might be slightly faster but using THIS criteria, these are the numbers showing today from the most popular bows.

You can show faster numbers but cutting the string strands, shooting from machines, dropping arrow weight, increasing draw but without a standard, its all moot points.There are a lot of big time numbers being flown around the internet about arrow speed but I"m not verifying them.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Tradtech Pinnacle 47lbs @ 29.75" - 348 grain carbon tech - 214 fps


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

timduvall said:


> One thing you have to standardize is testing.


Yeah, what he said! Show me over 200 fps, I'll show you lighter arrows, longer draw, shorter brace, skinnier strings, carbon/foam limbs, etc...

Like the TradTech Pinnacle above at 214 fps. They way we shoot 'em (like the "standard" setup used by Blacky Schwarz at Trad Bowhunter/Bogensport magazines), it's about 180 fps w wood/glass limbs.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I don't know - it is what it is - and I love my bow, arrows and set up -great penetration - still quiet and the most accurate set up I have used to date.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

sharpbroadhead said:


> I don't know - it is what it is - and I love my bow, arrows and set up -great penetration - still quiet and the most accurate set up I have used to date.


You're using a lighter arrow and a longer draw. Most bows today with good efficiency that carry good speed at the standards (28" draw, 9-10 gpp arrow, etc.) should show speeds at or above 200 fps with lighter arrows, longer draws, etc. 

The issue here is that when someone says they deviate from the standard in the opposite direction (in this case a much heavier arrow) and claim higher speeds it's just nonsense.

And after looking at the poster's previous posts as well as his growing aggression and arrogance... he seems well versed in nonsense.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

I agaree Kegan - but... and guys should be cautious - some bow makers will void the warrenty if they go below so many grains per pound of draw in arrow weight - with Tradtech you can use a very light arrow without voiding the warrenty - I think it is like 5 grains per pound of draw - I don't know how you would attain that in a hunting weight bow...but anyhow - I am shooting about 7 gpp - with Black Widow bows that would void their warrenty


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

sharpbroadhead said:


> I don't know - it is what it is - and I love my bow, arrows and set up -great penetration - still quiet and the most accurate set up I have used to date.


What it is, is a good bow!

I wasn't dissin' ya, just pointing out what happens when we compare apples to apples.

Heck, 45 year old recurves can top 200 fps w lighter arrrows, skinnier FF strings, and longer draw lengths. Until the tips break off that is...

For example, an old Groves Spitfire Magnum: [email protected], drawn 30, 540g arrow, FF string = 250+ fps (and the tips broke off).


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Last week I competed in the First Ever MBAA (My Basement Archery Association) Intercontinental World Championship Invitational and Deer--B-Q. I easily won my division (YEAH ME!). I'm thinking of having a belt buckle made.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

sharpbroadhead said:


> I agaree Kegan - but... and guys should be cautious - some bow makers will void the warrenty if they go below so many grains per pound of draw in arrow weight


Understood. I'm still trying to find what's the lightest arrow that can be safely shot from the hybrid bows I'm building. It just scares the pants off me to shoot anything under 7 or 8 gpp from my heavier bows...


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

BrokenArrows said:


> For example, an old Groves Spitfire Magnum: [email protected], drawn 30, 540g arrow, FF string = 250+ fps (and the tips broke off).


oops! That's 220+ fps w 540g arrow, 250+ fps w 300g arrow. And that broke it.

We were shootin' for 300 fps, but it broke before we could try the 250g arrow and 8s DF string...


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

appalachianhunt said:


> 202 fps baby! 712 grain arrow 57 lbs at 28 inches fedora excellerator!



I sold him that bow, I never ran it through a chrony but it was very, very fast. I also sold him the grizzstick's he's shooting and it was as I said very fast. Compared to my slammer and thunderstick III, it was almost compound fast. If that's what he says it chrono'ed at I'm going to take his word for it. Maybe the chrony was out a little bit but that bow was/is freakishly fast.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

coiloil37 said:


> I sold him that bow, I never ran it through a chrony but it was very, very fast. I also sold him the grizzstick's he's shooting and it was as I said very fast. Compared to my slammer and thunderstick III, it was almost compound fast. If that's what he says it chrono'ed at I'm going to take his word for it.


We'd beleive it's fast. But either the arrows are much lighter or the chrono is off, because if that's the actual speed than it is faster than any other traditional bow ever built, and far exceeds anything the top bowyers in the country (no, the world actually) can do. 

Which makes more sense, he made a mistake or everyone else is wrong?


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

I agree with you and everyone else. That being said I shoot a 430 grain fmj out of my slammer and thunderstick. Both drawn to 30" the thunderstick is [email protected] and the slammer [email protected] Both of those bows are significantly slower then the slammer was with a 30" GS alaskan and 250 grain tip. I shot the grizzstick arrows out of my compounds at 70 and 80 lbs and the slammer was almost as fast. I owned the bow for a short time this winter and was shooting in my house. My chrono doesn't work in the house so I don't know how fast it was but it was unbelievably fast. 
I would love to see it shot over at least two chronographs and know how fast it really is but, I would put money on it shooting very close to 200 fps with those arrows.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)




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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Pronghorn Custom Bow (Bamboo/amberboo/Osage Limbs)

29" draw, 10 gpp arrow, 198 fps .. Silky Smooth


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

I've run a ton of bows through a chronograph back when I ran a proshop, both my own personal stickbows and those of customers. A well designed, fast stickbow will normally shoot around 180+ at 10 gpp with a 28" draw. Lots of big name bows were a little slower but still had plenty of energy to get the job done. With my testing I found that normally a bow would gain/loose about 10-11 fps for every grain per pound class you went up or down. For example, if a bow shot 180 at 10 gpp, I'd expect app. 190 at 9 gpp, and 170 at 11 gpp. In my experience that normally worked out pretty close. Obviously some bows, depending on design wouldn't quite match that but most were close.

My personal setup right now is a Spig Club riser with SF Premium Carbon limbs, 42#, 28" draw. I shoot 240 gr. arrows with this setup and I'm getting about 215-217 fps. Not the fastest but with brace height of nearly 9.5" it's actually pretty good. My Whippenstick longbows are awesome r/d bows that generate alot of performance. Those bows are [email protected]" and I'm getting around 185 with 10 gpp. That's a hunting setup with a 16 str. string, silencers, and 7.75" brace. 

My fastest I've ever shot a heavy arrow was through a Morrison Dakota. That bow was [email protected] and with a fairly light string I shot a 720 gr. arrow at 195 fps. Tons of energy, not much fun to shoot after sitting on stand for several hours in a cold Wisconsin winter. I sold that bow long ago.

The trouble with the numbers that people are contesting from the Fedora Excellerator comes down to simple math. If that bow is pulled to 28" and actually scales 57# than that bow is over 100% efficient. That arrow combination at that speed is yielding 64.5# of KE and there isn't a bow out there without cams that is capable of generating that much energy. Simple math.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Str8 Shooter said:


> My personal setup right now is a Spig Club riser with SF Premium Carbon limbs, 42#, 28" draw. I shoot 240 gr. arrows with this setup and I'm getting about 215-217 fps.


What shafts are you able to build under 250grains that will spine out for 42# limbs? I'm barely able to get my arrows under 270grains for my 30lbs limbs.

Thanks,
Grant


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

I'm shooting Victory VAP 600's cut 27.5" NTBOP, 80 grn points, Bohning F nock and I use four fletch 1.75" Bohning shield cut X vanes. I pull my arrows to within about a 1/2" of the plunger which is about as short as I could get them to spine correctly and stay a safe distance from my plunger. The shafts are 5.3 gpi which are lighter than comparable ACE's (I believe). My weight is based on the old spring scale at the proshop but if you calculate out the components it's pretty close. I believe Victory will be offereing these in lighter spines also.


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

coiloil37 said:


> I agree with you and everyone else. That being said I shoot a 430 grain fmj out of my slammer and thunderstick. Both drawn to 30" the thunderstick is [email protected] and the slammer [email protected] Both of those bows are significantly slower then the slammer was with a 30" GS alaskan and 250 grain tip. I shot the grizzstick arrows out of my compounds at 70 and 80 lbs and the slammer was almost as fast. I owned the bow for a short time this winter and was shooting in my house. My chrono doesn't work in the house so I don't know how fast it was but it was unbelievably fast.
> I would love to see it shot over at least two chronographs and know how fast it really is but, I would put money on it shooting very close to 200 fps with those arrows.


I wish I could edit that post but after I compared the xcellerator with grizzstick's I mistakenly referee to it twice as a "slammer". To clarify I shoot 430 grain arrows from my Leon Stewart slammer and Jim Reynolds thunderstick III and they were both slower then the xcellerator with the grizzsticks.


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## huntnmuleys (Jan 7, 2004)

havent chronied my bighorn, but the one in the techno hunt says my 640 grain arrows are mid 180s, its a 65#@26, which is what i draw. fast enough for me. 

not quite to the 700 grain, 50 lb 205fps or whatever it was though....


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Str8 Shooter said:


> I'm shooting Victory VAP 600's cut 27.5" NTBOP, 80 grn points, Bohning F nock and I use four fletch 1.75" Bohning shield cut X vanes. I pull my arrows to within about a 1/2" of the plunger which is about as short as I could get them to spine correctly and stay a safe distance from my plunger. The shafts are 5.3 gpi which are lighter than comparable ACE's (I believe). My weight is based on the old spring scale at the proshop but if you calculate out the components it's pretty close. I believe Victory will be offereing these in lighter spines also.


Those VAPs sure build a light arrow. I keep hearing horror stories about their spine consistency though and I'm too cheap to buy a set and put them on the tester to see for myself.
I only shoot [email protected] but I like my arrows 31" if possible to close my gaps up so I need a 500-600 spine with 80gn points. I have to work really hard to get under 9gpp at my light draw weight. Fortunately it doesn't seem like a bow really pics up much speed once you start going that light anyways.

-Grant


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

appalachianhunt said:


> 202 fps baby! 712 grain arrow 57 lbs at 28 inches fedora excellerator!


As I heard a fellow say one time, "Can't be did!"

So… owing to his incredible knowledge and wisdom, I’m call’n baloney (or is it bologna) on this one. Either way… I’m call’n it. Or… a typo, perhaps? :^)


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Have to agree with that - seems a tad hard to believe


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## Charon (Apr 17, 2011)

Both the claimant and the person who sold him the bow have failed to meet the burden of proof. We can drag out all the prior testing and physics textbooks, but we will never "prove" the negative, that it can't be done. However the person making the claim CAN prove the positive. A careful, uneditted video showing the arrow being marked, weighed and shot through a couple different chronos, at a shop with multiple witnesses, along with chrono printouts would help. Then in the spirit of the scientific method, for the claimant to allow others to duplicate his results would probably cinch it. Surely he realizes that his claims are truly astonishing and require duplication. Even publication of the results for the benefit of the entire Archery community is practically obligatory. Until such as some effort is made to back the claim it remains BS and is really unworthy of further comment. 
BTW, the claim that cat whiskers are part of the "secret" to this claim make it EXTREMELY suspect.
In addition, the claimants attitude concerning his 3 world titles is really rather pathetic. As somebody pointed out in another thread, there may be "Winners" but such a person clearly falls short of being a true "Champion." The arrogance and refusal to assist others in duplicating his results make him just another petty, and sad little man with a couple of ribbons stuck on the wall.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Charon said:


> The arrogance and refusal to assist others in duplicating his results make him just another petty, and sad little man with a couple of ribbons stuck on the wall.


... Or a kid who thinks he knows more than he does. I've been there and can tell you, you can believe some really outrageous things when you're right.

I mean, I really thought I _could_ fly by flapping my arms hard enough, so long as I tacked on really heavy feathers of course...


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

You guys are being fairly rude to the guy who posted the original claim. 
It's pretty hard to believe but you should've been intrigued and asked for a video of the bow being shot over at least two chronographs at the same time. 
The only other test I've seen on an xcellerator was at 9gpp with fastflight strings it was 213 fps. The bow in question is fast. It's also wearing a skinny fastflight string. I never counted the strands but it's probably 8ish. At 57lbs and 712 grains your looking at 12.49 gpp. If he was drawing to 30" like I was it could be closer to 61 lbs which is 11.6 gpp.
I'm saying this because I really want to know how fast it is. It would also be nice if you guys could show a little more class and perhaps consider it logically and realize he could be close to his posted speed. 

Here's the test I'm referring to;


These tests were performed by Norb Mullaney, who is well known for his exemplary testing procedures, which eliminate as many vairables as possible during the testing process.

The velocities reported here were obtained without the use of bamboo, carbon or Dynema bowstrings in any of the bows, all of which will increase speed and yield higher figures.

TEST RESULTS

1. 560 Fedora Hunter 60” Recurve

60# with 540 grain arrow
211fps Endless loop dacron
*218fps Standard fast light string


2. 560 Fedora 60” Recurve-Custom built in 1960(44 years old!!!)

60# with 540 grain arrow 
211fps endless loop dacron
*218fps endless loop, standard fast flight string



3. Fedora Xcellerator 60” Longbow

60# with 540 grain arrow
206fps endless loop dacron
*213fps standard fast flight string

4. Fedora Stalker Magnum 52” Recurve

55# with 540 grain arrow
186fps endless loop dacron
*193fps TradMall custom Dynaflight97 String

* adjusted to reflect calculated performance of 60# with 540 grain arrow:
204 fps with endless loop dacron and 211 ps with Dynaflight 97 custom string

*Most bowyers agree that carbon increases speed approximately 3-5fps, bamboo 2-3fps and Dynema 2-3fps. If we add the lesser amount of the 3, we get a total of 7pfs more.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

coiloil37 said:


> You guys are being fairly rude to the guy who posted the original claim.
> It's pretty hard to believe but you should've been intrigued and asked for a video of the bow being shot over at least two chronographs at the same time.
> The only other test I've seen on an xcellerator was at 9gpp with fastflight strings it was 213 fps. The bow in question is fast. It's also wearing a skinny fastflight string. I never counted the strands but it's probably 8ish. At 57lbs and 712 grains your looking at 12.49 gpp. If he was drawing to 30" like I was it could be closer to 61 lbs which is 11.6 gpp.
> I'm saying this because I really want to know how fast it is. It would also be nice if you guys could show a little more class and perhaps consider it logically and realize he could be close to his posted speed.
> ...


He tests in accordance with ASTM Standard 1544-04, which is to a 30" draw and with a 540 grain arrow. Works really well for a compound but doesn't give an apples to apples comparison for stick bows. For one thing the weights of the bows are quoted at the AMO standard of 28" but they are then drawn 2" further, that can add on a lot of weight with no accompanying increase in arrow weight.
To date nothing will make those numbers at 9Gpp and 28" draw.

-Grant


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

He tests in accordance with ASTM Standard 1544-04,

Well that may be. I don't see that listed but the fact that you posted it leads me to believe you know what your talking about.

When I owned the bow I shot it at 30". I don't know what it scales at that dl but like I've said before the bow flat out smokes those arrows. I still believe it would be nice to see a video and know for sure. If it even shot 190fps it would be impressive and the only way I see any proof coming from the owner is if we talk him into it.... That involves showing a little class and being constructive. At this point I seriously regret not shooting it over my chrony so I could post some factual info instead of opinion. 
Kevin


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## timduvall (Mar 18, 2008)

short drawing a bow just 1/2" can lose 5 fps...so you can see how drawing 30" would really boost the FPS output...thats why traditional bows are tested at 28" for a standard. Thats why when anyone tells me about how fast/slow a bow is, the first thing i ask is how was it tested? Too many variables


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Actually several of us were giving the benefit of the doubt, until this came up.



> well actually its not a typo maybe if ppl knew how to tune arrows to bows instead of bows to arrows they could get these sppeds too speed knocks and cat whiskers help too and why do you think they call the fe\doras excellerators? *a 712 grain arrow with forward weight flys as fast as a 4-500 grain arrow with distributed wheight*


And this.



> well when you take 3 world archery titles come talk to me we true and professional archers know things about tuning these bows you couldnt figure out if you spent your life tuning


That pretty well cinched it--got to give a little respect if you intend to get any. The burden of proof is in his lap now.

Chad


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

Yea Chad, I would have to agree with you. All of that is.... BS. The whiskers were on the string when I sold it to him and nobody believes they do anything but slow it down. As for the high FOC, I'm not sure how anyone would think that helps anything regarding speed. I still want to know how fast it is and at this point if I hadn't shot it myself I wouldn't think it was anything special, but it is. I don't know how fast but it's faster then any other trad bow I've ever shot, by a wide margin.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I think his claim is a bit high due to the weight of the arrow 

But I shoot Fedoras and in fact will be at Mike's tomorrow 

with a 55 # 560 hunter drawn a tad over 26 and shooting a 530 grain arrow I am getting 194 fps. With a 400 grain arrow I was if I can remember right like 216 fps 

Fedora makes a real fast bow guys

BTW these speeds where attained with limb savers and wool silencers on bow


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

Again, apples to apples comparisons help. More than one way to skin the cat. 

For example, lets take a Pittsley Predator, 60#@28 inches.

A. Tested to AMO standards (30 inch draw/540g arrow - like Mullaney did above) w 20s FF string, you get 190 fps.
B. Tested to IBO standards (30 inch draw/300g arrow) w 20s FF string, you get 235 fps.
C. Tested to standard used by Blacky Schwarz in Traditional Bowhunter and Bogensport Magazine (28 inch draw/9 gpp), we get about 175 - 185 fps depending on machine v finger release and/or Dacron v FF strings. 

There's a 60 fps spread for ya!

1. 560 Fedora Hunter 60” Recurve

60# with 540 grain arrow
211fps Endless loop dacron
*218fps Standard fast light string

Reduce the draw to 28 inches and you can easily drop Mullaneys results to under 200 fps.

To get over 200 fps from _ANY_ 57#@28 bow w a 712g arrow is going to take some serious "tinkering" w any of the above "standards".


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

BrokenArrows said:


> Again, apples to apples comparisons help. More than one way to skin the cat.
> 
> For example, lets take a Pittsley Predator, 60#@28 inches.
> 
> ...


 I agree setting up another 560 right now and here is the bizarre thing. First bow I mentioned at 55 # at my draw likes a 400 spine shaft cut to 29 with an 100 grain insert and a 125 head

Bow I am setting up now same model but around 57 + # at my draw likes a 340 spined arrow with a 100 grain insert and a 125 grain head cut to 28 1/2 

I would have really thought these 2 bows would of liked the same arrow but the proof is in the bare shafting and cutting and they don't. Dont have a speed on the 57 # yet haven't fletched any 340's yet


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

chrono it w/o the fletches


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## coiloil37 (May 27, 2010)

You guys need to remember the bow is marked [email protected]". He didn't say what his dl is.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

coiloil37 said:


> You guys need to remember the bow is marked [email protected]". He didn't say what his dl is.


If he knew as much as he implied, he would have indicated that draw length increase rather than allude to using FOC to increase arrow speed instead of draw length, which is rediculous unless you misunderstood Dr. Ashby's arrow-dart comparison.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I think he should run it over the chrony again. Make sure it is used outside and placed in the shade or out of direct sunlight. I've had readings over 400 fps from my compound that is actually a 260 fps bow. Sometimes light glints off of the arrow and gives false readings. I also wonder if 28" to the shooter is the same as 28" AMO - as in drawing 28" to the pivot point of the grip and calling that a 28" draw without accounting for the 1 3/4" overhang.


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

Yeah, maybe if he is 7 ft tall and drew to his ear... naaah, not even then.

You need to read what we said again about DL, etc and speed results. He might get 200+ fps w a 512g arrow drawn to 30. To do it w a 712g arrow he would have to be in his 9 ft tall Pandora avatar body...

Some of youse guys are making excuses for what is obvous BS or slop, take your pic.


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

For some nifty bow test report info, take a look at BowReports.com at http://bowreports.com/index.php/technical-information.html


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

BrokenArrows said:


> Some of youse guys are making excuses for what is obvous BS or slop, take your pic.


I was trying to lighten up my approach 

Does make me wonder why the current owner hasn't replied since, though...


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I have to agree with BA here. At first I gave the benefit of a doubt, but after those comments about world championships and such...nope...blew that one clean out of the water.

Chad


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Looking at some of the higher level tuning going on with FITA bows its really starting to look like keeping it under 205-210 fps has some major benefits. The arrows gain a lot of ballistic efficiency when they aren't being driven so hard and heavier has major benefits when shooting in some wind.

Shooting with feathers would make this even more apparent. I'd hazard a guess that under 190fps is probably a really good place to be with any sort of hunting set-up.

-Grant


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

JParanee said:


> I think his claim is a bit high due to the weight of the arrow
> 
> But I shoot Fedoras and in fact will be at Mike's tomorrow
> 
> ...


Guys after really checking my draw today I am drawing this bow closer to 27 inches than I am 26 and it is probale pulling 58 # instead of 55 #

Sorry


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## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

BrokenArrows said:


> Yeah, maybe if he is 7 ft tall and drew to his ear... naaah, not even then.


Considering this test from a trusted souce to known, accepted standards:

3. Fedora Xcellerator 60” Longbow

60# with 540 grain arrow
206fps endless loop dacron
*213fps standard fast flight string

After crunching some numbers, he just might get over 200 fps w a 712g arrows from a [email protected] bow if he was 7 ft tall and drew to his ear...

Sorry, my bad. 

Speed tells you how efficient a bow is, but it isn't everything. Making a bow fast is easy. Making it fast and pleasant to shoot is harder. 

I can get over 200 fps from my 1960s Bear and Shakespeare bows, but they feel lousy. At 160 fps w heavier arrows they feel great, do the job just fine, and I shoot them as well as anything newer and way faster.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

BrokenArrows said:


> Speed tells you how efficient a bow is, but it isn't everything. Making a bow fast is easy. Making it fast and pleasant to shoot is harder.


Luckily, most builders today shoot for the magical 200 fps barrier with a standard 28" draw, medium weight string, and 10 gpp arrow. In order to get an arrow going that fast you need to be able to reduce handshock and noise to a point where as much energy is going into the arrow as possible. Everyone wins, ecept the builder who's pulling his hair out trying to get there.

It's a great time for archery


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Not that anyone cares but I love setting up and tuneing hunting bows .

Here is the probale 20 year old 560 I picked up off Mike when I dropped off a bow I had lightened a few months ago. He refinished the bow so it looks like brand new 

Like I said I love tuning up bows and setting them up to hunt making them as quiet and fast as I can with perfect arrow flight.

Started out bare fletch tuning and settled on a 340 spine ICS Carbon cut to 28 1/4 at nock point. !00 grain insert and 125 grain head. Toyal arrow weight 530 grains

Added a Big Jim strap on quiver in dark brown 

a set of limb savers 

and some fur silencers

tip protector on nottum limb

All speed testing was done with all equipement on bow 

3 shots averaged normal release not over drawn draw length somewhere around 26 1/2 to 27 inches about 60 ponuds at my draw

speed ony deviated 1 fps so release was consistant

Here ya go I am real pleased with this setup for a 20 year old bow with all this stuff on it


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Out of curiosity, have you shot any other bows through that chrony for comparison?


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

first shot with a 45# Dorado with a 580 grain wood arrow... 31" draw probably takes it to over 50 pounds....










Subsequently I've gotten close to 170 with slightly heavier arrows... but this is probably representative of the species.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

LBR said:


> Out of curiosity, have you shot any other bows through that chrony for comparison?


Yes I have anotrher Oehler Chrono that I compare it 2 . I also do alot of long range rifle work and run ballistic programs useing data from this chronograph.

it is spot on


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

I got a 218 out of my warf yesterday at 9gpp. Only once though. Got accurate readings of 173-175 the rest of the evening. Maybe we should specify AVERAGES


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

TrapperDave, I would call a single unusual reading an anomaly. That would make your average 174 fps, right?


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

yup


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