# Refilling ThermaCell Butane



## unloaded (Jan 11, 2010)

OK, once you get through the check valve its time to blow out the shavings and reinstall the brass valve.
http://wowway.com/~unloaded/therma6.jpg 

Here's a blurry pic of the hole we made, you want it small enough so it won't touch the sides that hold the brass valve in.
http://wowway.com/~unloaded/therma7.jpg 

To get the brass valve back in I start it with the pliers and then turn it upside down and press it against the floor. Made sure you get it seated all the way.
http://wowway.com/~unloaded/therma8.jpg 

Now it's time to refill. Here is the tip that came with the Cigar Store butane. You fill with the butane tip pointed down so it fills with liquid butane rather than gas. If the can is warmer than the cartridge it will work better. The refill isn't instant, maybe 30-40 seconds to get it done.
I didn't have enough hands to take pics of actually filling it.
http://wowway.com/~unloaded/therma9.jpg

Here we are at about half full.
http://wowway.com/~unloaded/therma10.jpg 

Here is the level I filled it to.
http://wowway.com/~unloaded/therma11.jpg

I didn't fill it completely full, want to do a bit a safety testing. Right now I've got one in a lamp style repellent burning on the front porch. It's been going for a few hours now with no problems. I'm wondering about adding some loctite or superglue to the brass valve before reinstalling but so far it doesn't seem needed. I'll probably do it as a precaution before I use these in the hunting style ones that are hanging from the belt. Hope this helps some of you having the same problems I am.

I guess I need to state that there is potential for danger if the valve were to leak or come out releasing all the butane at once so use at your own risk. Try a few and set them up in a safe area to test and see if you are comfortable with the results.

peace.
unloaded


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## Squawsach (Apr 26, 2008)

I hope it works out for you and you don't turn into a crispy critter while carrying your thermo cell or having it on stand with you. I like the DIY stuff but I'm going to spend the $7.99 for refills so I'm not worried about the possible incendiary device sitting next to me as I hunt. Lord knows that I would perfer to stay in my stand instead of jumping off to save myself and my safety belt wouldn't let me get far.


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## GusGus30125 (Mar 5, 2009)

You can just punch a hole in the valve with a needle. The big cans of KING butane that have the different sized tips in the lid, have a perfectly sized tip to fit the valve on the ThermaCell Cartridge.


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## swampboss (Sep 8, 2009)

This does seem dangerous . If the butane develops a sudden large leak once after you have it lit , it will turn into a blow torch. Im all for saving money but what would a really bad burn cost you? Something to think about.


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## racer102 (Jul 16, 2006)

*refill*

Stupid ought to be painful


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## brash (Feb 21, 2009)

i've done this, sorta. i have couple torch lighters that i've repaired. as long as the o-ring on the check valve is in good condition (is which why i changed it in the first place) i've never had a problem.


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## 3--d (Feb 15, 2005)

*refill*

Nice idea
But do your self a favour and take a new one and weigh it first , and then you will know exactly where to charge it too. Also do it at about 70 deg F so it wont get over charged.

Andy

:darkbeer:


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jan 4, 2009)

Just the thought of being strapped into a tree 20 feet high and having a blow torch going off on the back of my boots is worth the $$ to buy a refill.


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

Butane will not simply ignite or combust because the valve popped out or leaked. It requires a heat source. So all you guys that think you have a incendiary bomb strapped to you get over it. 

He has done nothing different that what the manufacture does. He has simply remove the check valve so you can refill the bottle. There is no voodoo magic to how th manufacture puts the brass fitting in there, it's pressed in.


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## jersey bob (Oct 18, 2003)

You can buy the refills for butane hair dryers much cheaper than the Thermacell Branded ones.

The REALLY expensive item is the damned pads!!!! 

Anyone ever tried resoaking them in permanone?


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## Squawsach (Apr 26, 2008)

bansh-eman said:


> Butane will not simply ignite or combust because the valve popped out or leaked. It requires a heat source. So all you guys that think you have a incendiary bomb strapped to you get over it.
> 
> He has done nothing different that what the manufacture does. He has simply remove the check valve so you can refill the bottle. There is no voodoo magic to how th manufacture puts the brass fitting in there, it's pressed in.



The thermo cell unit burns the butane to produce heat to release the chemicals in the pad. The butane is ignited while the unit is in use. What other heat source would you need since the butane is already burning in a controled manor? My problem is that modifications to the butane cell increase the chances of the butane burning in an uncontroled manor. 

Get over it? You might want to rethink that comment.


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## neo71665 (Jul 26, 2007)

Squawsach said:


> The thermo cell unit burns the butane to produce heat to release the chemicals in the pad. The butane is ignited while the unit is in use. What other heat source would you need since the butane is already burning in a controled manor? My problem is that modifications to the butane cell increase the chances of the butane burning in an uncontroled manor.
> 
> Get over it? You might want to rethink that comment.


Your still over analyzing it too far. By the time a flame backs up in the system as far as the fuel bottle you have big problems anyway. All he done was remove the check valve that doesn't allow you to refill it that they put in there so you have to buy their bottles.


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## Squawsach (Apr 26, 2008)

Who's worried about flame getting into the bottle? I would be conserned about butane come out of the bottle.


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

IF the key word there.... If the butane leaked the tiny flame in the thermacell is more likely to get blown out by the pressure of the butane being released than turning into a ball of flames. It's not like you are talking about holding a match with a nice open flame and butane vapors coming in contact with it. You are talking about a pressurized gas that is at the most 1/2 from the "flame". It will not stand. Worry all you want, there is nothing unsafe about it. 

Like said before, there is nothing magical about the way Thermacell presses in the brass fitting. You are simply removing check valve that keeps you from refilling the bottle.


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

Jersey Bob,

I have not found anything that would fit locally, what brand did you find that fit?


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## bowman_77 (May 4, 2009)

I did this last year and it works great.


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## brash (Feb 21, 2009)

on the torch lighters i rebuilt, the problem was that the butane was leaking around the check valve, it had a o-ring that went bad. i tried to light it and there wasnt even enough leaking to light. 
on this set-up i probably wouldnt refill them 50 times. just like i wouldnt reload a rifle cartridge 50 many times. just have to make sure everything is in good shape.


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## ghost1 (Mar 1, 2007)

Why in the world?


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## unloaded (Jan 11, 2010)

Guys, I've been using refilled ones since late last summer. So far no problems. I don't think there is a worry while the cartridge is installed in the unit, its screwed in and the brass piece can't come out. If one were to come out, it would be during storage while there is no flame. The reason I got started with this, my wife has one of the latern units for the front porch and she could never seem to remember to turn it off each night so she was using one cartridge per pad. As a result I wound up with a lot of extra pads. I haven't tried refilling the pads with Permanone yet but will soon.

peace.
unloaded


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

I need to find someone that has a bunch of extra bottle they are going t toss and take them off thier hands. It is getting close to that time of year where the bugs are coming back out!


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## neo71665 (Jul 26, 2007)

bansh-eman said:


> It is getting close to that time of year where the bugs are coming back out!


Close??


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## jleepeters (Dec 26, 2009)

theres a really good way to refill them and a how to video on you tube. the guy goes thru the bottom of the canister and installs a new valve and epoxies it in. plus if it did leak for some odd reason the butane would escape out the bottom of the canister and no where near the flame.

He also shows what he uses as a substite for the pads. Coleman mosquito rings and he just drops them in the grate with an old pad in place and has a thin piece of fabric to hold them in place.

Pretty cool idea yall should check it out if your to worried about this way. Its a two part video also so you will have to find the second one to see the the end and the repellant replacement


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## neo71665 (Jul 26, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKb4YX_6Iw4


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## jleepeters (Dec 26, 2009)

thanks neo. I didnt even think about putting a link in the msg i posted


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## neo71665 (Jul 26, 2007)

jleepeters said:


> thanks neo. I didnt even think about putting a link in the msg i posted



I'm lazy and don't like having to look stuff up so after I did I figured why not just post it.


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## drayegon (Jun 9, 2009)

*No one wishes to take even a small chance anymore*

This is the reason so many products are not available any longer. Cessna for one Hey I bought a little C180 way back when It only cost me about 5 grand I went through many of the things that needed to be done. Things that were Cheap if I did them but cost an arm and a leg if I hired a guy with a license to do them. Lets Talk a simple Item. Spark Plugs: If I buy and use the certified ones that the local fsbo sells about 20bucks each. If I go down to napa or a walmart they run me about 3 bucks each. I can buy all the parts and pieces to build my own spark plug wires with the outer cover of tin sheetmetal and the braided SS cover for the wire. Now let us talk Alternators. I took a chevy V6 alternator I took the one off my plane Took them both apart. Put the new good parts in the old alternator. All it had were some screens and such to keep the gas fumes from getting inside the alternator. To be honest it just is not going to ever happen but that is what the FAA wants to have done any way. The price difference on the alternator? $245.00 So just to do an electrical tune up on a Cessna 180 would run me about a Grand For me to do it my way about a hundred dollars.

Now your looking at other things again. I feel maybe we should go back a few steps and quit trying to make a million dollars out of suing the Rockefeller's or some such.

Now we are just trying to save a few dollars and someone will tell us we will Die doing this.

I am 60 I think I will see 70 or be shot by the husband of a jealous 18year old beautiful bride on her wedding night. Just after she came home to me.

I sure hope he can shoot straight cause I wont be good for very long at my age.

dray


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## slayer73 (Aug 19, 2008)

Well put! I think this is a awesome idea....for those that don't? Keep it to yourself, the guy is just trying to help out the people that want the help. Good Day!


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## hoytbowhunter22 (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks for the info on this thread, I just finished refilling my first one with the method of drilling out the factory refill plug and it worked like a charm.....$5 for the canister of butane is going to refill a lot of thermacell bottles......I've already got it going in the unit and it's working flawlessly


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

hoytbowhunter22 said:


> Thanks for the info on this thread, I just finished refilling my first one with the method of drilling out the factory refill plug and it worked like a charm.....$5 for the canister of butane is going to refill a lot of thermacell bottles......I've already got it going in the unit and it's working flawlessly


I'm next.  

Do you think adding a drop of "GOOP" would help keep the brass fitting from leaking as extra insurance?


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## hoytbowhunter22 (Nov 26, 2009)

jbo3 said:


> I'm next.
> 
> Do you think adding a drop of "GOOP" would help keep the brass fitting from leaking as extra insurance?


I didn't do anything to mine and its working great........if you put goop on it you risk plugging up and it might not work IMO.....


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

Video was great. Just as in the video, I'd only goop around the fitting, but I may just do what the guy in the youtube vid did. 

I'll try the mosq. coil too and see if that works for me as it does for him. I wonder if you really need to wrap something around it like that. I suppose it's to keep the cut pieces on the old pad good.


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## hoytbowhunter22 (Nov 26, 2009)

I did the one where you pull the brass fitting out of the top, drill through the plug, and replace the brass fitting.........much easier, quicker, and works great!! No goop required:thumbs_up


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

man i go through 2 gas cells & 3 pads per trip. season last from sept - feb. i will try it out tomorrow.


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## swampboss (Sep 8, 2009)

I guess you guys like to play with rattlesnakes too?? I dont see much difference. Im sure it works great until that 1 in a 1000 pops out ( while it is lit ) on some poor kid , after he overfills it and it burns the holy [email protected]#*t out of him and he fall 20ft from his treestand. Then what are you hard heads gonna say.?? He should have been more careful?? 
Why dont you let me pull out the brass insert while one is strapped to your leg and I hold a candle next to it. Lets put that on you tube! What do you think is going to happen? Your gonna learn to dance real fast. You just have to ask your self is it worth the risk. 
Not trying to bash anyone here Just trying to get some of you guys to think.


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## easyeriq (Feb 10, 2008)

swampboss said:


> I guess you guys like to play with rattlesnakes too?? I dont see much difference. Im sure it works great until that 1 in a 1000 pops out ( while it is lit ) on some poor kid , after he overfills it and it burns the holy [email protected]#*t out of him and he fall 20ft from his treestand. Then what are you hard heads gonna say.?? He should have been more careful??
> Why dont you let me pull out the brass insert while one is strapped to your leg and I hold a candle next to it. Lets put that on you tube! What do you think is going to happen? Your gonna learn to dance real fast. You just have to ask your self is it worth the risk.
> Not trying to bash anyone here Just trying to get some of you guys to think.


If you do as the video on youtube, even if the valve pops out, it is away from the heat source. You set yourself on fire your way and let everyone set themselves on fire their way.


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

There is nothing different about it than what thermacell is doing. you are removing the check valve that prevents you from refilling the bottle, thats it.


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## swampboss (Sep 8, 2009)

easyeriq said:


> If you do as the video on youtube, even if the valve pops out, it is away from the heat source. You set yourself on fire your way and let everyone set themselves on fire their way.


*Okayyyy......... , "to each his own" and "if you play with fire you are gonna get burned ", one more ! "I told ya so" ( in advance ) *


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## swampboss (Sep 8, 2009)

bansh-eman said:


> There is nothing different about it than what thermacell is doing. you are removing the check valve that prevents you from refilling the bottle, thats it.


I get it guys, but my problem is with the brass insert, they are made to be used once. It has to got to wear each time you pull it out and put it back in. Its just plastic designed for one use. If it were brass on brass with good seals or o-rings. It would be different and even then only as good as the seal.


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

There is nothing to wearout. But we will say that taking it in and out to refill does wear it out, you can spend 8 bucks (if that) and do like the guy in the you tube video and you can have an actual refill valve in the bottom of the can and never have to remove it again.

I am making one right now like that so I can just flip the Thermacell over and refill it and not bother with the cartridge.


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*working on it*

I am trying to locate a supplier for the refill valves right now.


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## alligood729 (Mar 25, 2007)

There is a post about this on the GON.com site. Friend of mine has been doing this for several years, since the thermacell came out. He's refilled literally hundreds of canisters for himself and friends, not one single problem. Kinda like my bowturbow that was supposed to make my bow blow up, or come flying off in my face and put my eye out......several thousand shots on several bows......not one single incident....
Replace the butane as the photos show......no problems.


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

matlocc said:


> I am trying to locate a supplier for the refill valves right now.


While it isn't the cheapest route, you can buy the pencil torch from Harbor Frieght and remove the vavle from there. It is a nice brass fitting so nothing to break. I think I grabbed the torch for 3 bucks the other day.

My hardest thing is going to be finding only the pads. The stores around me only carry the refill kits.


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## wsbark01 (Feb 26, 2009)

bansh-eman said:


> While it isn't the cheapest route, you can buy the pencil torch from Harbor Frieght and remove the vavle from there. It is a nice brass fitting so nothing to break. I think I grabbed the torch for 3 bucks the other day.
> 
> My hardest thing is going to be finding only the pads. The stores around me only carry the refill kits.


Try here!

http://cgi.ebay.com/THERMACELL-MOSQ...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5635c0bcaa

http://cgi.ebay.com/THERMACELL-MOSQ...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cef922f16


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## NGsportsman (May 27, 2008)

alligood729 said:


> There is a post about this on the GON.com site. Friend of mine has been doing this for several years, since the thermacell came out. He's refilled literally hundreds of canisters for himself and friends, not one single problem. Kinda like my bowturbow that was supposed to make my bow blow up, or come flying off in my face and put my eye out......several thousand shots on several bows......not one single incident....
> Replace the butane as the photos show......no problems.


I'm with Ali on this one. I learned the technique from the same guy. Once the insert is placed back into the bottle, there is no way for butane to leak out. It's not a bomb waiting to go off, it's a Thermacell bottle that functions as it was designed.


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

bansh-eman said:


> While it isn't the cheapest route, you can buy the pencil torch from Harbor Frieght and remove the vavle from there. It is a nice brass fitting so nothing to break. I think I grabbed the torch for 3 bucks the other day.
> 
> My hardest thing is going to be finding only the pads. The stores around me only carry the refill kits.


You can buy the pads direct too from thermacell. I think the last time I got a quote, they were $2.50 each! Yeup..I didn't buy them. Will be using mosquito coil and trying that out.


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## jeffg9000 (Jan 23, 2010)

Well guys not to change the subject i been thinking of a way to change this idea so. 

I was thinking that the reason you use butane is to keep the element lit and warm up the metal disk below the pad sooooooooo, 

Heat is how it works what if you could use somting like a small tea light candel in a simmer pot a small on with a way to keep it lit with say small holes and maybe a pop off way to insert a new candle. 

And say you added some type of wax mixed with a the pads that come with the divice. it should smoke and be sent free the flame will be inclosed in the simmer pot so it should work. I know the tea lite candles burn for about 4 to 5 hours so one will do you and there cheap.


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

If you could control the heat from burning the pad by maybe putting it a little off to the side it should work.

I was looking online to see if you could buy the chemical they use on the pads but wasnt able to comeup with anything. That would be awesome to buy a jug and just soak the pads over and over.


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## jeffg9000 (Jan 23, 2010)

I am sure you could just use DEET that is what make it work i am told. I am sure you can find something


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure a constant fume or vapor from DEET is bad jewjew


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## neo71665 (Jul 26, 2007)

jeffg9000 said:


> I am sure you could just use DEET that is what make it work i am told. I am sure you can find something


Has nothing to do with DEET

"A mat saturated with *Allethrin*, a copy of a naturally occurring insecticide found in chrysanthemum flowers, is placed on top of the metal grill."


http://www.mosquitorepellent.com/how_it_works.asp


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

bansh-eman said:


> If you could control the heat from burning the pad by maybe putting it a little off to the side it should work.
> 
> I was looking online to see if you could buy the chemical they use on the pads but wasnt able to comeup with anything. That would be awesome to buy a jug and just soak the pads over and over.


You can buy all you want, from China. I've already looked into it. However, the quantity you have to buy is the limiting factor.


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## NGsportsman (May 27, 2008)

I don't know about the other guys, but the only time I use my Thermacell is when I'm deer or turkey hunting. The beauty of the Thermacell (aside from the fact that it works!) is it's a push-button start and then it's hands-free. I don't want to be lighting any candles and worrying about spilling the simmer pot when I'm in a stand.


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

I did find this for replenishing the pads. Have no idea if it works, but it does contain the right stuff.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3HVA6?Pid=search


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## beaverman (Jun 21, 2008)

wsbark01 said:


> Try here!
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/THERMACELL-MOSQ...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5635c0bcaa
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/THERMACELL-MOSQ...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cef922f16


You would be better off buying the refill kits then buying mats from that guy. He has 12 mats listed for $25 when you can buy a refill kit of 12 mats and 4 butane cylinders for $20 http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs..._mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-100372118


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

white.greg said:


> I did find this for replenishing the pads. Have no idea if it works, but it does contain the right stuff.
> 
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3HVA6?Pid=search


I am going to see what the concentration is on that stuff. If it is a few percent I am willing to bet that it works.


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## blackdeer55 (Apr 27, 2010)

Coooool!


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

That stuff is only a .02% concentration so I am going to keep looking.


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

neo71665 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKb4YX_6Iw4


Think I'll book mark this link before this thread gets deleted!


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## Sideways (Feb 13, 2006)

Great Idea Unloaded! 
Here is a link to the MSDS page for the Thermacell pads

http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/Documents/174_msds.pdf


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## trinibob (Mar 10, 2004)

Am trying my refills this weekend


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

What stores carry the butane with the tips?? I don't have a cigar store close by. Any of the everyday regular stores have it? Like target, sams, walgreens, etc. etc.?

The alltethrin you can buy from China, but the minimum is 1 kilogram (36 ounces or so) for $775. That will keep you good until you die. :shade:


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## mikemkd (May 21, 2010)

jbo3 said:


> What stores carry the butane with the tips?? I don't have a cigar store close by. Any of the everyday regular stores have it? Like target, sams, walgreens, etc. etc.?
> 
> The alltethrin you can buy from China, but the minimum is 1 kilogram (36 ounces or so) for $775. That will keep you good until you die. :shade:[/QUOTE
> 
> This is how I found the closets shop, find a retailer page: xikar.com (I cant post the link due to under 5 posts) My local zippo store told me they dont make multiple tips, called the closest xikar retailer(40 miles away) and they have cans with multiple tips. I will try the zippo first but I know if it doesnt work I can get the other tips.


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## neo71665 (Jul 26, 2007)

have gotten them from wal-mart before


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

If you cant find the tips, try the method in the video. It will allow you to use your run of the mill butane cans.

I am going to hitup my pestacide guy next time he comes in to my work and see if he knows of a place that you can buy the alltethrin. I am sure it can be purchased for less than that.


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

*Butane Bottles*

Hey,
Is there anywhere's to buy empty butane bottles for the ThemaCell Appliances?


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## vegas steve (Jan 14, 2007)

i just refilled my first bottle for my thermacell. it's quite easy to do. i could only get mine about halfway full though. i think i bought a crappy can of butane,but it did come with the correct tip. i bought mine from a smokers store.


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## hoytbowhunter22 (Nov 26, 2009)

bansh-eman said:


> There is nothing to wearout. But we will say that taking it in and out to refill does wear it out, you can spend 8 bucks (if that) and do like the guy in the you tube video and you can have an actual refill valve in the bottom of the can and never have to remove it again.
> 
> I am making one right now like that so I can just flip the Thermacell over and refill it and not bother with the cartridge.


You only have to take the top brass fitting out one time.........you can refill it from then on without having to ever remove it again and you spend $0.....I've already used the one I did and refilled it twice with no problems


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

Hunter22,

I know you dont have to pull the brass to refill. I ment pulling the cartridge in and out of the thermocell to refill it.


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## vegas steve (Jan 14, 2007)

well i used my thermacell with my refilled cartridge tonight while fishing and it worked just like i bought a brand new refill. 4 hours and nothing but bug free fishing.


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## hoytbowhunter22 (Nov 26, 2009)

bansh-eman said:


> Hunter22,
> 
> I know you dont have to pull the brass to refill. I ment pulling the cartridge in and out of the thermocell to refill it.


Sorry for the misunderstanding........no insult intended:thumbs_up


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## short-n-fast (Dec 4, 2004)

I tried doing it over the weekend , if you put a brass refill in the bottom like the guy on youtube , you have to epoxy it so it doesnt leak. 

I also pulled the brass fitting out of the top , took a num 19 drill and drilled into the check valve , slowly until it bit , and pulled the check valve out. that valve in my opinion is put there so you cant refill. I presses the brass back in .
there are 3 ridges in the brass peice and one positive lock. It isnt coming out from pressure. i refilled 3 this weekend , with out any problems.


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

Just so you guys know, that "check valve" as you call it doesn't prevent you from refilling these, it just limits how FAST you can fill them. Those that are either pulling the brass fitting out of the top, drilling, then putting them back in - and those drilling and putting a new brass fitting in the bottom of the bottles are going through a lot of trouble for nothing. 

The only thing the two different methods mentioned above do, is save you a bit of time in the filling process. But if you're not in a extreme hurry and are patient, these two steps are NOT needed!!!


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

How long does it take to fill the canister if you don't drill out the check or limiting valve? This is a very interesting thread. I have never used a thermacell because of the cost. But if you guys come up with a way to make the device work at little expense then I will have to buy one and give it a try.

How many pads could you recharge with a Kilogram of alltethrin? How much would be needed per pad and what would be a good way to measure and apply the Alltetherin? Maybe a hypodermic needle.

I can see it now. All of us in jail for having scales and hypodermic needles. AKA drug paraphernalia.


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

Anyone found a source for alltethrin yet.

Sounds great to refill the fuel canisters, but without the main ingredient, what's the point?


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Here are some products that contain Allethrin.

It is also used frequently in commercially available aerosol spray and tabletop candles and lanterns.



Brands:

Ace Wasp & Hornet Killer2 (with tetramethrin)

Ace Flea & Tick Killer for Pet and Home

Green Thumb Wasp & Hornet Killer (with tetramethrin)

Hot Shot Wasp & Hornet (with tralomethrin)

Hot Shot Flying Insect Killer (with permethrin)

OFF! Mosquito Coil

Ortho Home Defense Flying Insect (with phenothrin)

Raid House and Garden

Raid Yard Guard (with permethrin)

Summit Outdoor Mosquito Repellent Coils


Some other names for Allethrin are:

alleviate, pynamin, d-allethrin, d-cisallethrin, bioallethrin, esbiothrin, pyresin, pyrexcel, pyrocide, and trans allethrin.

This may require a lot of research to find something that will work to refresh the thermacell mats. I am hoping that someone who knows about this chemical can use this information to find a good source for the rest of us.


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

OK I did some more searching and found someone in a crossbow forum that found 45% permethin at Tractor Supply. It comes in packs of three 9 cc ampules, 27 cc's total for $13. He says he is adding 3 drops to a pad to refresh it and gets at least 3 hours out of it.

If that's correct then 27cc = 416 drops divided by 3 drops per refresh = 138 refreshes for $13 or just under 10 cents each.

Even if it takes twice as much as he says, it's still about 20 cents per pad refresh.

The nearest Tractor Supply is pretty far away from me, can anyone take a look for us. I checked the web site and could not find it. But I did find something else. Here
http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...thrin-10-livestock-premise-spray-8-oz-2212873

It does not give the concentration, but this may work as well.

Even if the concentration is very low, it may still be easier to use because of the higher volume, maybe soak the pads in the fluid and let dry.


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

OK I also found this at tractor supply, it's those single application flee an tick things you squeeze onto the back of your dog.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...thrin-10-livestock-premise-spray-8-oz-2212873

Sounds more like what that guy was talking about.

These things are available anywhere, not just TS.

Just needs some testing


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## pure havoc (Apr 21, 2003)

Same link as the above post ? 



white.greg said:


> OK I also found this at tractor supply, it's those single application flee an tick things you squeeze onto the back of your dog.
> 
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...thrin-10-livestock-premise-spray-8-oz-2212873
> 
> ...


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## pure havoc (Apr 21, 2003)

we have concentrated permethrin here at work " farm chem warehouse" and i can tell you it doesnt smell anything like the thermacell pad . honestly i would be afraid of putting that concentrate on a pad on a warmer breathing it may do bad things for you , I think the allerthrin has little to no scent .


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I have some 10% peremethrin but I don't know if it is the same as Allethrin. But if I works that would be great unless it is a hazard of some kind. I use the Permethrin to spray my clothes and it keeps ticks and crawling insects away. But it has no affect on knats that like to buzz around my ears and mosquitoes that like to find bare skin.

If the peremethrin works we are in business. Now we just need someone that knows about this to tell us that our survival rate will still be zero like always.


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## pure havoc (Apr 21, 2003)

We have a restricted use product called Tempo SC Ultra that comes in 240 ml bottles that would probably work well , it is scent free and eliminates the following bugs
fleas, flys ,knats, mosquitos, wasps, yellow jackets, ants, bees, spiders and ticks and numerous others that dont aply to us just not sure how it would work on the pad with heat ? I guess I could ask my chemist friend do some research for me on it Im sure he could figure it out pretty quick
Tempo SC Ultra 
active ingredients 11.8%
Cyfluthrin, Cyano(4-Fluoro-3- phenoxyphenyl) metyl-3(2,2-dichloro ethenyl-2,2 dimethyl- cyclopropanecarboxylate


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

It just took me 5 minutes to write down the chemical name so it must be good.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I compared the chemical name to Allethrin and it is different.


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*could we?????*

move this discussion to the thermacell mat thread, so that we are all on the same page if we make a discovery? I have been searching high and low for an alternative to allethrin because it is so hard to find in concentrate. See the other thread for some of the work I have been doing.
The pyrethrin type chemicals are of an organic nature as compared to the permitherins which have an odor and are synthetic. I think odor is gonna be the big hurdle, as well as flash point and heated stability.


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## hunt123 (Jan 17, 2009)

OK, what someone needs to do is do a Mythbuster on one of these modified refillables. I don't have a Thermacell or know much about them or I'd do it myself.

Just set up a worse case scenario and see what happens then post the results. Confirmed? Plausible? Busted?


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## hunt123 (Jan 17, 2009)

hunt123 said:


> OK, what someone needs to do is do a Mythbuster on one of these modified refillables. I don't have a Thermacell or know much about them or I'd do it myself.
> 
> Just set up a worse case scenario and see what happens then post the results. Confirmed? Plausible? Busted?


Sorry...my post didn't seem to make much sense after reading it later. I was referring to the guys at the start who claimed dire things like setting oneself on fire up in a treestand. That should be an easy Mythbuster type test if someone had an extra cartridge and wanted to try it out. 

No need for Buster or a treestand. Just test to see what would happen if the cartridge leaked while the unit was working. If there was no fire, see what you'd have to do to make it catch on fire.


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## jleepeters (Dec 26, 2009)

Hunt, Ill do it if you want to donate the $25 for a therma cell to basically catch on fire and destroy. 

Mine works perfectly fine using refilled bottles and doesn't leak so im not going to make it leak on purpose and then have to buy a new one


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## pure havoc (Apr 21, 2003)

jim p said:


> I compared the chemical name to Allethrin and it is different.


Yes your right Alletherin, permethrin , pyrethrin, cyfluthrin , Are all synthetic pyrethroids , they all have a little different chemestry or they would be infringing on patents and Trades . When this pad gives up Im going to try some diluted Tempo SC Ultra out on this pad since I already have some and see what happens, if I dont reply back in a couple days dont try it . JK.  the Tempo product has no smell so no worries on that just not sure how well it takes temp or what it does with temps I guess I need to see what kind of temp the thermacell puts out first . but im guessing no more than 200 degrees. im actually looking for a diferent material to put it on I would rather not mix 2 different compounds on the same pad I might not get the results im looking for


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I have never seen one of the mats so I really don't know what they look like. I am thinking that a mat made of fiberglass cloth would be ideal. It would not burn and should be inert. I used to get this cloth at the hobby store and use it on model airplane wings. If there is a boat builder close by they probably have all different weight of the cloth and a look in their dumpster would produce a life time supply.

I hope your test goes well. It would be nice to have a mosquito haven and set the test unit up and let it run and then just walk by the unit to see if there are any mosquitoes around it. I will be waiting to hear back about your test results.


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

matlocc said:


> move this discussion to the thermacell mat thread, so that we are all on the same page if we make a discovery? I have been searching high and low for an alternative to allethrin because it is so hard to find in concentrate. See the other thread for some of the work I have been doing.
> The pyrethrin type chemicals are of an organic nature as compared to the permitherins which have an odor and are synthetic. I think odor is gonna be the big hurdle, as well as flash point and heated stability.


Can you give us a link to this thread?


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

pure havoc said:


> Yes your right Alletherin, permethrin , pyrethrin, cyfluthrin , Are all synthetic pyrethroids , they all have a little different chemestry or they would be infringing on patents and Trades . When this pad gives up Im going to try some diluted Tempo SC Ultra out on this pad since I already have some and see what happens, if I dont reply back in a couple days dont try it . JK.  the Tempo product has no smell so no worries on that just not sure how well it takes temp or what it does with temps I guess I need to see what kind of temp the thermacell puts out first . but im guessing no more than 200 degrees. im actually looking for a diferent material to put it on I would rather not mix 2 different compounds on the same pad I might not get the results im looking for


I use the Tempo in my yard every year - does a great job but is hella expensive. I just bought two 240ml bottles for $97. I mix it 8ml to a gallon of water to cover 1000sq ft. At this concentration, you can smell it the following morning. So, there is a smell when applied over several thousand square feet but I haven't used just a teeny bit like in a Thermacell. 

On the back of the bottle, it says it is harmful if inhaled but if youcan't smell it, there isn't enough to work on the skeeters so that must mean if inhaled in a pure form or something. If I was to use this, I would skip the Thermacell route and mix up the appropriate quantity in a spray bottle and spray my stand and tree once I got there.


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*link*

here is a link to the other thread it is only a few posts below this one.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1247926


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

I'd like to hear from anyone that did the mod where you pull the brass fitting out, drill the bottle then put the brace fitting back in. Although I refill mine without any mods at all, I did this mod to one bottle just to see the difference.

Although after doing this mod you can refill the bottle a lot faster, I find that if you push in the center of the brass fitting, the butane also comes out twice as fast. That would mean you're burning your bottles up in half the time as normal because the valve that you drilled out controls how fast the butane comes out of the bottle.


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## hunt123 (Jan 17, 2009)

jleepeters said:


> Hunt, Ill do it if you want to donate the $25 for a therma cell to basically catch on fire and destroy.
> 
> Mine works perfectly fine using refilled bottles and doesn't leak so im not going to make it leak on purpose and then have to buy a new one


Whew...pricey suckers aren't they. I've never used one and didn't realize they were that expensive. By adding the refill valve and epoxying it in like is shown on the video, I can't imagine there could possibly be a leakage problem.


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## unloaded (Jan 11, 2010)

Maxtor said:


> I'd like to hear from anyone that did the mod where you pull the brass fitting out, drill the bottle then put the brace fitting back in. Although I refill mine without any mods at all, I did this mod to one bottle just to see the difference.
> 
> Although after doing this mod you can refill the bottle a lot faster, I find that if you push in the center of the brass fitting, the butane also comes out twice as fast. That would mean you're burning your bottles up in half the time as normal because the valve that you drilled out controls how fast the butane comes out of the bottle.


They seem to last the same amount of time for me. I have one of the little crystal-like globe appliances on the front porch. You can see the flame when it's lit, about half the size of a match head, it is the same size with original or modified cartridges. Not very scientific but it seems to be metered the same. Maybe the metering device is in the appliance.

peace.
unloaded


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## pure havoc (Apr 21, 2003)

Rick when you get ready for more tempo lemme know I can hook you up cheaper than that just not sure if the price would be much difference by the time freight got it there . Were you using the SC Ultra ? I also use it in my yard at 16 ml @ gal and I have never noticed a smell to it , all I now is it keeps my garden pest free, our deck mosquito free and my dog flea free  I think tempo is a contact killer but if added heat to moistened pad it may act differently , im working on getting some oil pad matting to try to use as a chem pad , as I dont want to add the tempo to the alletherin pad I dont wanna find out what the 2 mixed together will do i want to try it by itself . I will try it over the next couple days but I think its going to work


Rick! said:


> I use the Tempo in my yard every year - does a great job but is hella expensive. I just bought two 240ml bottles for $97. I mix it 8ml to a gallon of water to cover 1000sq ft. At this concentration, you can smell it the following morning. So, there is a smell when applied over several thousand square feet but I haven't used just a teeny bit like in a Thermacell.
> 
> On the back of the bottle, it says it is harmful if inhaled but if youcan't smell it, there isn't enough to work on the skeeters so that must mean if inhaled in a pure form or something. If I was to use this, I would skip the Thermacell route and mix up the appropriate quantity in a spray bottle and spray my stand and tree once I got there.


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## DS1 (Jul 18, 2010)

Maxtor said:


> Although I refill mine without any mods at all


How long does it take you to refill a cartridge without any mods compared to a cartridge with the mods ?

What tip and what technique do you use to refill a cartridge with no mods ?


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## daworz (Oct 20, 2008)

*Refilling*

Ok so when you put the brass valve back in and it works can you reuse that bottle once it runs out? aslong as you dont glue the brass valve in?


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## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

jleepeters said:


> the guy goes thru the bottom of the canister and installs a new valve and epoxies it in. plus if it did leak for some odd reason the butane would escape out the bottom of the canister and no where near the flame.


Duh! . . . :darkbeer:


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## bohmer2 (May 14, 2010)

daworz said:


> Ok so when you put the brass valve back in and it works can you reuse that bottle once it runs out? aslong as you dont glue the brass valve in?


The idea of drilling out the bottle is to make the bottle infinitely refillable, so even after the brass valve is glued in you areable to continue to refill.


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## Cajun Execution (Apr 19, 2010)

I am trying to do another mod. The first one that I trid to do would not hold the butane. I think that I may have broken the valve somehow while taking it out of the pencil torch. I just tried to do another and will find out shortly if it will work or not. Just for sh*ts and giggles I hooked the leaking bottle up and turned on my thermacell to see what would happen, and guess what..... No PUFF!! It just rapidly leaked out of the back of the container. It took approximately 15 minutes to leak out.


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

You don't have to do mods of any kind, just refill them the way they are. Then there are absolutely no worries of accidents and you don't have to add any extra valves


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## South Man (Jul 12, 2008)

jersey bob said:


> You can buy the refills for butane hair dryers much cheaper than the Thermacell Branded ones.
> 
> The REALLY expensive item is the damned pads!!!!
> 
> Anyone ever tried resoaking them in permanone?


I tried this and they dont fit my thermacell??


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## Orion_70 (Apr 4, 2005)

Ok guys, maybe someone can tell me what I'm not doing right here. I took out the brass fitting as shown, then drilled out the check valve and replaced the brass fitting. Bought a big can of King Butane with all the extra tips. I can only get the cartridges to barely refill. only about 1/4 inch of butane in the bottom of the cartridge. I;ve left the butane outside to warm it up and tried that too. Any ideas?


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## Orion_70 (Apr 4, 2005)

Ok, figured it out... the King butane tip needed a small notch cut across the tip. I just took a utility knive and just made a slit. Cartridges filled in no time then...


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Now that you have a system that works. Take an unmodified thermocell fuel cell and see how long it takes to refill using your modified tip. If it refills fast enough then I would not want to remove the cap and drill out the restriction of the fuel cell.


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## JK360 (Jun 29, 2010)

Maxtor said:


> You don't have to do mods of any kind, just refill them the way they are. Then there are absolutely no worries of accidents and you don't have to add any extra valves


i just bought a thermacell and was thinking of doing this mod, but you're saying you can refill without doing any of this?? if so please explain...


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

JK360 said:


> i just bought a thermacell and was thinking of doing this mod, but you're saying you can refill without doing any of this?? if so please explain...


 Basically all you have to do is modify a butane tip the way this guy did:


Orion_70 said:


> Ok, figured it out... the King butane tip needed a small notch cut across the tip. I just took a utility knive and just made a slit. Cartridges filled in no time then...


 Then using some sort of clamp, I just put the butane can upside down into the therma cell canister and lightly clamp the two together. As I said before though, they don't fill really fast but I have enough thermacell canisters that I'm in no big hurry for it to refill anyway


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

Refilling the butane canisters is the easy part, no one (as far as I know) has figured out how to replenish the pads, figure that one out and we will really have something.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Maxtor said:


> Basically all you have to do is modify a butane tip the way this guy did:
> 
> 
> Then using some sort of clamp, I just put the butane can upside down into the therma cell canister and lightly clamp the two together. As I said before though, they don't fill really fast but I have enough thermacell canisters that I'm in no big hurry for it to refill anyway


How long does it take for crying out loud?


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## Dbyrum72 (Feb 14, 2010)

I am a welder by trade to start off.Now that lil check valve everyone keeps thinking is to just keep you from refilling is not there for that reason.It is also a flashback.Just as on a cutting torch.If fire goes back toward bottle this valve will prevent it from reaching inside the bottle.Take this for instance.If you take a can of hair spray and light it while spraying it can follow the stream back to the can and blow up.If i was going to attempt this i would put the valve in the bottom of the butane bottle.Notice i said IF.


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## GusGus30125 (Mar 5, 2009)

Dbyrum72 said:


> I am a welder by trade to start off.Now that lil check valve everyone keeps thinking is to just keep you from refilling is not there for that reason.It is also a flashback.Just as on a cutting torch.If fire goes back toward bottle this valve will prevent it from reaching inside the bottle.Take this for instance.If you take a can of hair spray and light it while spraying it can follow the stream back to the can and blow up.If i was going to attempt this i would put the valve in the bottom of the butane bottle.Notice i said IF.


Of all the people on this thread and all the ones I know personally who have Been refilling theirs, none have lit themselves on fire. Never even heard of a unit catching fire. A thermacell isn't exactly a set of torches.


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## Dbyrum72 (Feb 14, 2010)

No a thermacell is not a set of torches,but it uses a compressed bottle of gas,and needs a flashback for safety reasons.It may not flashback in a 100 or more instances,but all it takes is one.


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

Dbyrum72 said:


> I am a welder by trade to start off.Now that lil check valve everyone keeps thinking is to just keep you from refilling


 Just so you know this statement is wrong!! It does absolutely nothing to prevent you from refilling


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

dw'struth said:


> How long does it take for crying out loud?


Takes on average about an hour or so to refill one without doing any mods to it


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Maxtor said:


> Takes on average about an hour or so to refill one without doing any mods to it


Ok, thanks. Tha'ts not bad at all if you can "clamp" it into position some how.


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## ab2 (Jul 16, 2009)

I been using the clairol butane cartriges which are very cheap.


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## Bran8484 (Aug 31, 2010)




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## Bran8484 (Aug 31, 2010)

ab2 said:


> I been using the clairol butane cartriges which are very cheap.


where do you find the clairol ones


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## ab2 (Jul 16, 2009)

This is what I found. You need a small adapter for it to work. Only issue which is not an issue is that the butane cannister sticks out the bottom since it's longer and it's pink. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/25-Butane-refil...ultDomain_0&hash=item230911b960#ht_860wt_1139

It works perfectly.

http://cgi.ebay.com/110-Butane-refi...ultDomain_0&hash=item255786926a#ht_879wt_1139

Ask the seller for the adapter.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

You actually don't need the extra tips if your handy with a knife. I had to do this as no one around here carries the butane with extra tips.


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## kc8avv (Jun 5, 2013)

I myself see no problem with refilling. I too find that it gets a bit expensive. One thing I want to caution on though. As a former firefighter I now understand why some things get tested. Pressure vessels are a potential bomb or rocket. Refilling several times can weaken the plastic container and actually allow it to fail. We had to hydro test the air bottles for the scba every 5 years to ensure they were fit to use and not blowup on someones back. Propane tanks also must be tested but how many of us use the same bottle for 10 or 20 years and not think about it.

Also to make the point, SodaStream bottles have a life cycle date printed on them for the same reason, pressurization strains the plastic and can rupture. Commercial airliners suffer the same stress fractures in the outer body shell from ...pressurization...


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## eyeswideopen (May 10, 2011)

Thanks to the OP for sharing. I go through several dozen cartridges from April-October. I keep 2 lanterns going on my bowholder almost every evening while I shoot. The mosquitos around here are monsters, they do shots of deet before going out to feed. The portable is a must have during turkey season and it keeps the knats and other swarming creatures out of my face when I'm in my early season deer stands. I don'y like using sprays if I don't have to.


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## Robert Stai (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the great info! Looking forward to saving a ton of money this season. After checking out the tutorial that included yanking the internal check valve, I did so and got it put back together in about a minute and a half. Kinda feel bad for all of the folks on other forums spending half an hour drilling and JB Welding new refill valves into their canisters etc. 

I went to Menard's for fuel and found they had their 10 oz. canisters of refill butane on closeout from $6.99 to $1.50... so I bought 30 canisters, lol. The front-end manager looked at my cart full of butane like I was cooking meth or something, so I just told him I was building bombs in my backyard (kinda true I guess). 

After a little experimenting, I found that cutting an "X" in the tip of the butane cartridge rather than just a slot cuts your refill time down to about 4 seconds instead of 30 seconds to a minute. Hope that tip (no pun intended) helps!

Now I'm off to KMART for Coleman mosquito coils to create a replacement for the pads!


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