# Ideas about "accidental shot" rule- ASA



## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

How do you guys think the rule should read? 

What I was thinking is maybe if the group agreed the arrow was less than halfway to the target, and not shot at full force, then the shooter should be allowed to quickly retrieve after notifying the lanes on each side of the group that a shooter was going to retrieve.


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## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

The Nfaa has a 10 foot rule. If the arrow is propelled less than 10 feet, you re shoot it.


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## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

I'd also wait to retrieve the arrow after everyone has shot. No one goes to an ASA Pro Am with only 1 arrow in their quiver.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

jre4192 said:


> I'd also wait to retrieve the arrow after everyone has shot. No one goes to an ASA Pro Am with only 1 arrow in their quiver.


True. I didn't even think about that.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, I don't agree with having a "accidently shot" rule. You step to the line you should be in control. Granted, rain, severe wind can cause havoc, but then you still should be in control to let down. Now, if the arrow falls off the string, whether the bow is at rest or full draw, then it's a dropped arrow.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

jre4192 said:


> The Nfaa has a 10 foot rule. If the arrow is propelled less than 10 feet, you re shoot it.


 indoors, out doors , a shot arrow is a shot arrow


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I agree that the rule needs more thought and possible changes, However, the intentions of a shooter are ambiguis to all except to the shooter himself. In other words, how are we/what are we going go use to measure what an intention is?

Would I would like to see is a return to the old verbal let down rule, with a limit of 1 misfire per day( let down must be called) /or 20 targets. Have a yes or no box under the 12 box to record if it was used. 1 verbal misfire, accident forgiveness...all the rest for that day earns you a score where the arrow lands.


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## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

brtesite said:


> indoors, out doors , a shot arrow is a shot arrow


Then what is the purpose of the 10 foot line at NFAA indoor events?


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> Well, I don't agree with having a "accidently shot" rule. You step to the line you should be in control. Granted, rain, severe wind can cause havoc, but then you still should be in control to let down. Now, if the arrow falls off the string, whether the bow is at rest or full draw, then it's a dropped arrow.


I am in no way talking about the arrow actually being fired from the bow at full draw, or even half draw. Sometimes when I hook my release it won't hook right and just as soon as I put tension on it to pull back it will go off. Arrow may go 10 feet or so. That should not be counted as a shot. You drive halfway across the country and some stupid little mistake like that happens and then you've blown hundreds of dollars over a technicality. The arrow wasn't intnentionally shot. It unintenionally came off the bow.

Think about the old nock sets and little rubber deals that went under nock (called speed buttons or whatever now) and a caliper release. Sometimes it would pinch the nock just right when you started to draw and the arrow would fall off. If you call that a shot then it's obviously never happened to you or you wouldn't. That's not a shot, that's an arrow falling off the string.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

jre4192 said:


> Then what is the purpose of the 10 foot line at NFAA indoor events?


I use it to guess yardage! Don't you?


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

If the arrow was propelled by the string...it is a shot...an accidental release may or may not have caused it, but if your release is set that light, then you should pay the penalty. you must be in control at all times...sorry.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

asa_low12 said:


> I am in no way talking about the arrow actually being fired from the bow at full draw, or even half draw. Sometimes when I hook my release it won't hook right and just as soon as I put tension on it to pull back it will go off. Arrow may go 10 feet or so. QUOTE]
> 
> I deem this equipment failure and should rectified. Read the rules. Here, you could be made to fix it, replace it or be removed. You're to be ready, period, you, bow and related equipment.
> 
> ...


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

I think if the arrow is propelled it's a shot. You are to be in control of your shot at all times, including hooking your release to the string. This should be checked and double checked if you've had it happen before. No different than double checking your sight setting or pin light brightness, etc.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> asa_low12 said:
> 
> 
> > I am in no way talking about the arrow actually being fired from the bow at full draw, or even half draw. Sometimes when I hook my release it won't hook right and just as soon as I put tension on it to pull back it will go off. Arrow may go 10 feet or so. QUOTE]
> ...


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## VICECIV (Mar 28, 2011)

SonnyThomas said:


> Well, I don't agree with having a "accidently shot" rule. You step to the line you should be in control. Granted, rain, severe wind can cause havoc, but then you still should be in control to let down. Now, if the arrow falls off the string, whether the bow is at rest or full draw, then it's a dropped arrow.


and in the case of rain and severe wind....EVERYONE is effected by the same "havoc" not just you.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

As I stated in the other thread. Mr. McCarthy was shooting with a group of his peers. Danny himself or his peer group decided that the rule should be enforced the way that it was.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

jimb said:


> As I stated in the other thread. Mr. McCarthy was shooting with a group of his peers. Danny himself or his peer group decided that the rule should be enforced the way that it was.


You are wrong there!!!! It was the range officials call not any of ours including Danny.

I was in his group and we all agreed that it wasnt a shot arrow and tried to get him to just pick it up and shoot it but he didnt want to without talking to the range official. He had the right distance to hit the 12 on the 42 yard corsican. It projected about 10ft or so. It all happened as he went to raise his bow and his release either misfired or it was on his loop great. He shoots a trigger and its not set light. He went straight to the range official to get her opinion and she decided it was a shot arrow. He took it like the proffessional he is and never let it get him down. He just kept pounding the 12 rings and made the shoot off. I honestly feel that the outcome of the shoot off may have been different if he could have shot his arrow instead of having to take a zero. I really feel that it should be up to the group not the range official in a case like that. It wasnt no where near a shot arrow or even a let down. 

I totally agree that this rule needs to be changed to an extent. The group should have an opinion on the situation.
Jame


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Jame said:


> You are wrong there!!!! It was the range officials call not any of ours including Danny.
> 
> I was in his group and we all agreed that it wasnt a shot arrow and tried to get him to just pick it up and shoot it but he didnt want to without talking to the range official. He had the right distance to hit the 12 on the 42 yard corsican. It projected about 10ft or so. It all happened as he went to raise his bow and his release either misfired or it was on his loop great. He shoots a trigger and its not set light. He went straight to the range official to get her opinion and she decided it was a shot arrow. He took it like the proffessional he is and never let it get him down. He just kept pounding the 12 rings and made the shoot off. I honestly feel that the outcome of the shoot off may have been different if he could have shot his arrow instead of having to take a zero. I really feel that it should be up to the group not the range official in a case like that. It wasnt no where near a shot arrow or even a let down.
> 
> ...


Usually I have always seen these situations handled by the group. Bold move to go to the range official, Have to commend him on that, it would be a hard decision to make. I was almost right, Mr. McCarthy made his own call by going to the range official. Sometime you just have to do what you feel is right. We need more people like that in the world.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

jimb said:


> Usually I have always seen these situations handled by the group. Bold move to go to the range official, Have to commend him on that, it would be a hard decision to make. I was almost right, Mr. McCarthy made his own call by going to the range official. Sometime you just have to do what you feel is right. We need more people like that in the world.



I agree. Hes a stand up Professional. I know what he did was right but I honestly feel that he was cheated. The guys who disaggree with having a rule change should have been there to see it.
Jame


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

I definetly don't think it needs to be up to the group. If you do that it won't be fair for everybody because your gonna have some of your diehards that are going to call it a shot. And i'm sorry but what Danny did was the ONLY reasonable thing to do. Being the stand up guy that i'm sure that he is, how do you think he would've felt if he would have listened to group and shot it, and then come to find out that the exact same thing happened to somebody else and he didn't count it and Danny beat him by 2 or 4 points or something? He would feel bad and he would have cheated. Now with that being said I definetly think rule should be changed, but it has to be the SAME for everybody. Not up to the group.


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

I lost an ASA in SPM a few years back because of a misfire. On target 2 my release decided to break just as I started drawing and the arrow went 10-15 yards down range. As much as I didn't like it I feel it's no different then if my rest or sight would break and cause me to miss. I do feel that a release or loop failure is alot different then someone shooting back tension firing during a letdown. Any rule like this needs to be universal and not let in the hands of the group. One group will give it to the guy while the next one won't.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

60X said:


> I lost an ASA in SPM a few years back because of a misfire. On target 2 my release decided to break just as I started drawing and the arrow went 10-15 yards down range. As much as I didn't like it I feel it's no different then if my rest or sight would break and cause me to miss. I do feel that a release or loop failure is alot different then someone shooting back tension firing during a letdown. Any rule like this needs to be universal and not let in the hands of the group. One group will give it to the guy while the next one won't.


I agree 100%. 

Especially with the back tension firing during a letdown. But how do you feel about like what happened to McCarthy? His release either misfired when it was barely drawn back or it wasn't on the loop good and it just went a few feet down range. I don't think that should be counted, as he never even got drawn back. I don't think your release breaking should have been counted either. A sight breaking and you not knowing it til you had SHOT, then I would say count it. I bet the rule is like it is because of difficulty to word and make crystal clear to everybody.


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## GATOR-EYE (Jun 30, 2006)

Jame said:


> You are wrong there!!!! It was the range officials call not any of ours including Danny.
> 
> I was in his group and we all agreed that it wasnt a shot arrow and tried to get him to just pick it up and shoot it but he didnt want to without talking to the range official. He had the right distance to hit the 12 on the 42 yard corsican. It projected about 10ft or so. It all happened as he went to raise his bow and his release either misfired or it was on his loop great. He shoots a trigger and its not set light. He went straight to the range official to get her opinion and she decided it was a shot arrow. He took it like the proffessional he is and never let it get him down. He just kept pounding the 12 rings and made the shoot off. I honestly feel that the outcome of the shoot off may have been different if he could have shot his arrow instead of having to take a zero. I really feel that it should be up to the group not the range official in a case like that. It wasnt no where near a shot arrow or even a let down.
> 
> ...




What a great guy for getting a ruling from the range official, but a shot arrow is still a shot arrow whether it was a accident or not. It would be a tough rule to judge the intent of every missed arrow, you would be better off giving everyone a mulligan.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I've always went by if you can reach your arrow from the stake you are shooting, you can pick it up and shoot again.

If more than that, a shot is a shot. lain:

Tough break sometimes. Nerves can get the best of all of us. I've never took another shot for a bad release.


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

In case of a let down.......... if the shooter tells the group he/she is letting down and as he/she is letting down their release misfires and sends the arrow down range out of reach, is this constituted as a "do over" in ASA?


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

YankeeRebel said:


> In case of a let down.......... if the shooter tells the group he/she is letting down and as he/she is letting down their release misfires and sends the arrow down range out of reach, is this constituted as a "do over" in ASA?


No. ASA has eliminated the "called letdown" rule. The rule as it stands now is pretty straight forward. An arrow that is propelled by the string either intentionally or unintentionally in any situation is a shot arrow. I am unsure how I feel about it but that is the rule. In some respects I agree with Jame but I do see the need for a hard and fast rule.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

asa_low12 said:


> I definetly don't think it needs to be up to the group. If you do that it won't be fair for everybody because your gonna have some of your diehards that are going to call it a shot. And i'm sorry but what Danny did was the ONLY reasonable thing to do. Being the stand up guy that i'm sure that he is, how do you think he would've felt if he would have listened to group and shot it, and then come to find out that the exact same thing happened to somebody else and he didn't count it and Danny beat him by 2 or 4 points or something? He would feel bad and he would have cheated. Now with that being said I definetly think rule should be changed, but it has to be the SAME for everybody. Not up to the group.


I also agree that it should NOT be up to the group, groups will judge differently,, the Range Official is there to make sure Everyone adheres to the same rules and it makes it fair for everyone.


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## bearhunt (Jan 16, 2008)

sagecreek said:


> I've always went by if you can reach your arrow from the stake you are shooting, you can pick it up and shoot again.
> 
> If more than that, a shot is a shot. lain:
> 
> Tough break sometimes. Nerves can get the best of all of us. I've never took another shot for a bad release.


x2 this is the way, I always play it. If you can't reach it while touching the stake, it's been shot. Thank god for long stabilizers.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

VeroShooter said:


> No. ASA has eliminated the "called letdown" rule. The rule as it stands now is pretty straight forward. An arrow that is propelled by the string either intentionally or unintentionally in any situation is a shot arrow. I am unsure how I feel about it but that is the rule. In some respects I agree with Jame but I do see the need for a hard and fast rule.


Also note in the rule, shooting in the ground (in front of you) is considered a danger.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> asa_low12 said:
> 
> 
> > I am in no way talking about the arrow actually being fired from the bow at full draw, or even half draw. Sometimes when I hook my release it won't hook right and just as soon as I put tension on it to pull back it will go off. Arrow may go 10 feet or so. QUOTE]
> ...


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

field14 said:


> SonnyThomas said:
> 
> 
> > Sonny, that 10-foot line has been used at INDOOR NFAA events for years and years and years. People constantly drop arrows onto the floor when pulling them out of their quivers to transfer them to the bow string. They almost always end up in front of the shooting line and in front of other archers on said shooting line. Also, you are absolutely correct, sometimes a pinched or broken nock will fall off the string as you go to hook up or just barely start to draw the bow. It also happens during a controlled let down where the arrow falls off the string and ends up on the floor in front of the line. The 10-foot line is for that purpose...If any part of that arrow is within 10 feet of the shooting line, then you get a "re-take" and it does NOT count as a "shot arrow"...However, you are supposed to have enough arrows in your quiver to cover this so that they don't have to stop the entire shooting line or to wait until the end for you to recover that arrow in order to shoot it.
> ...


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

The rule is ok 2 me.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

what about if you "accidentally" hit the 14 when you weren't aiming for it? Do we have to give back those points?

maybe we should have to "call" our shots like in pool.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2011)

I like the way you think, bow-legged! That's a resource most people over look.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

XForce Girl said:


> what about if you "accidentally" hit the 14 when you weren't aiming for it? Do we have to give back those points?


Sorry, XForce Girl. You can't give them back. If it's in the target it's a shot arrow.... But I'm sure going to use this at the next shoot. Should drive my shootin' friends nuts...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

field14 said:


> SonnyThomas said:
> 
> 
> > Sonny, that 10-foot line has been used at INDOOR NFAA events for years and years and years. /////// However, you are supposed to have enough arrows in your quiver to cover this so that they don't have to stop the entire shooting line or to wait until the end for you to recover that arrow in order to shoot it.
> ...


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

asa_low12 said:


> field14 said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't like that rule at all because i'm short to be honest. I guy that is 6'6" with a 30 inch draw is going to be able to reach way farther than my 5'8" 27" self. I wish we had some kind of totally concrete rule that had a little leiniancy with it.
> ...


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## mod10g (Dec 18, 2006)

I think if the shooter hasn't reach full draw then it shouldn't be considered a shot arrow, if it goes off on letdown then you didn't control the shot and would be considered a shot arrow. This would give a person a break on a bad hookup or release malfunction.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

???? I didn't say anything about inches or being short. Embarrassing enough is all my arrows look like dropped arrows and them hitch hiking to get to target only adds to my embarrassment.


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## bearhunt (Jan 16, 2008)

I have been enjoying this discussion so I am going to throw another log on the fire. If the origin of 3d is for hunting practise, then any arrow that could spook a deer should be considered a shot arrow.. You might not spook a deer if it fell off the string and landed in front of you but the twang and movement of an arrow that was propelled by the string would definitely have it leaving.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

I feel any dropped arrow you can't bend over and pick up should be considered a shot. "Partically" shot is still shot. No way should a shooter be allowed to advance down range for any distance. Control your equipment.


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## cookiemonster (Dec 4, 2006)

The archer needs to be in control if you are having an issue then fix it. don't try to change the rules that can open up another can of worms.


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## jwolfe78 (Mar 10, 2006)

If you miss the target... you should be able to shoot again... :darkbeer:


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