# Hoyt Formula Series vs. W&W Inno Series



## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

Debating what top line bow I should start saving for to get in the next year or two. What bow do you prefer and why? Hoyt's formula bows or the Inno series? Which bow(s) of either series do you like most and why.


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm starting to wish I hadn't made my user name Hoytshooter15 haha.


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## Basilios (Nov 24, 2012)

Don't you currently have a formula riser? Stick with the riser, get a new set of limbs and the rig will still outshoot you and all of us. 

In the end it comes down to preference, shoot what feels best for you.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Both have proven to be world class bows. Part of the decision would come down to whether you are satisfied with being locked into Hoyt's limbs, or if you want more flexibility in your limb selection.

Hoyt's bows also tend to have lower frequency feedback than the W&W carbon risers. Some prefer one or the other. Personally, I prefer the low frequency "thud" to the high frequency "snap" but to each their own.

I would hesitate to being locked into one mfg.'s limbs if I were a developing archer though.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Uukha make an adapter plate so their limbs fit the Hoyt Formula series bows, I wonder if it can be used on all ILF limbs like W&W or just Uukha's, anybody know the answer?


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

Basilios said:


> Don't you currently have a formula riser? Stick with the riser, get a new set of limbs


Well I want to do that but the reason I'm in the market (or will be anyway) for a new riser is because my current formula got damaged and has some scratches on it that arent to pretty. I know I'm splitting hairs here but having to stare at your scratched riser all day makes you want a new one


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Hoytshooter15 - I know that scratched riser is bugging you, so I'll gladly take it off your hands for free! :wink: Then you wouldn't have to look at the scratches anymore!

Kidding aside, it's nice to have pride in your gear and scratches aren't fun. My brother had a similar experience with a new boat recently...

Have you thought of checking with a painter to see if there's anything that can be done about the scratches? Maybe a custom paint job? I'd suspect that's cheaper than replacing your riser.

-Kent W.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Joe Fanchin and Kristin Braun started a custom archery equipment painting business - socalcustombows.com

They will paint pretty much any piece of archery equipment to your specs with automotive quality paint jobs.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

steve morley said:


> Uukha make an adapter plate so their limbs fit the Hoyt Formula series bows, I wonder if it can be used on all ILF limbs like W&W or just Uukha's, anybody know the answer?


Made just for Uukha limbs.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

yep, and gives you the worst of all worlds simultaneously.

if you want to go Formula, do it and accept it.


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## jwalgast (Aug 7, 2005)

I got an Inno Max last year. The limb alignment system is WONDERFUL!!


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

caspian said:


> yep, and gives you the worst of all worlds simultaneously.
> 
> if you want to go Formula, do it and accept it.


Agree 

Plus with the new Quattro limbs out, you can pick up F7s cheap! $300-350! Because the F7s are outdated man. Though ill be happy being the uncool kid shooting F7s


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

jwalgast said:


> I got an Inno Max last year. The limb alignment system is WONDERFUL!!


I had the pleasure to tune a W&W bow and several SF Forged+ for some collegiates recently. MAN they are spoiled! I loved being able to change the alignment on the fly. Didnt have to unstring, take limbs out, take dowels out, move washers... OOPS! Dropped one... there we go... reassemble bow, annnddd gotta move another washer.


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

steve morley said:


> Uukha make an adapter plate so their limbs fit the Hoyt Formula series bows, I wonder if it can be used on all ILF limbs like W&W or just Uukha's, anybody know the answer?


The Uukha limbs are much thinner at the base than a traditional ILF limb, and as such their adapter plates are smaller do not fit most other ILF fittings.


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Past thread here on Archerytalk... when the Formula was originally available... there was someone ( I think in NY state) making a CNC machined aluminum adaptor to fit he Formula risers that accepted ILF limbs. 

Anyone remember this?

Anyone with updated info?

Regards, 

Tom


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

My opinion, W&W is the way to go. I have been pissed at Hoyt ever since the first formula came out. I was an avid Hoyt shooter, had my Helix all dialed in and was ready to upgrade to the latest Hoyt limbs. Then they decided to come out with Formula. I actually quit recurve for 2 years when that happened. Sold my helix and said screw it and shot bowhunter compound until mid 2013. Now I'm back into it shooting a W&W Inno Carbon RX with SF Elite limbs. Couldn't be happier with the riser, limbs are alright but Im thinking about upgrading to the new EX Power limbs soon. So anyway, long story short, screw Hoyt and their elitist Formula crap. That's like a car manufacturer coming out with a new car that will only run on one brand of gasoline, which only they provide. Incredibly lame if you ask me.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

massman said:


> Past thread here on Archerytalk... when the Formula was originally available... there was someone ( I think in NY state) making a CNC machined aluminum adaptor to fit he Formula risers that accepted ILF limbs.
> 
> Anyone remember this?
> 
> ...


Yes I remember. He produced a working product but the cost was so high that interest disappeared and that was that.


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Gee I thought you had a little PIRATE in yu

ARRRRRR---SI

Just kidding

;-)

Tom


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## gif (Jul 14, 2012)

Ten_Zen said:


> screw Hoyt and their elitist Formula crap.


that's kind of strong language, don't ya think?

I like the formula system. They're nice bows. Yes, they may be more expensive than an ILF, but it's my money, and I can spend it how I want. I shot several bows from several companies before I settled on an RX with F4s. It felt the best *to me*. If you don't like it, then don't buy it, but don't criticize it.

HS15- if I were you, I would go with formula, because you already have a few sets of limbs. That said, the choice is really up to you, both companies make great bows and there's really no way to go wrong.


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## ortabr (May 25, 2013)

Honestly I like the formula risers, not so crazy about the limbs. There are other options for limbs MK makes most of their limbs formula compatible. I have got the Veras on my RX right now due to the weight being two pounds heavier on my IONX. I love the smoothness of the limbs and when combined with both Hoyt riser it makes for one heck of a rig. My sister shoots the HPX with the MK Inpers, which she also loves.


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## Basilios (Nov 24, 2012)

I'm pretty sure I just liked that photo on Instagram! Lol


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

Scratches aren't the only reason I want a new riser. Just want a higher caliber riser. I'm looking at the formula RX seeing how it is the cheapest solution and many people tell me that the RX is the best of all the formulas for many reasons. Everyone I talk to says the RX just simply feels better than any other and is the most forgiving.


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## Mad Wally (Apr 26, 2013)

hoytshooter15 said:


> Scratches aren't the only reason I want a new riser. Just want a higher caliber riser. I'm looking at the formula RX seeing how it is the cheapest solution and many people tell me that the RX is the best of all the formulas for many reasons. Everyone I talk to says the RX just simply feels better than any other and is the most forgiving.


How about the GMX, best of both worlds! First class riser and free choice of limbs.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Ten_Zen said:


> My opinion, W&W is the way to go. I have been pissed at Hoyt ever since the first formula came out. I was an avid Hoyt shooter, had my Helix all dialed in and was ready to upgrade to the latest Hoyt limbs. Then they decided to come out with Formula. I actually quit recurve for 2 years when that happened. Sold my helix and said screw it and shot bowhunter compound until mid 2013. Now I'm back into it shooting a W&W Inno Carbon RX with SF Elite limbs. Couldn't be happier with the riser, limbs are alright but Im thinking about upgrading to the new EX Power limbs soon. So anyway, long story short, screw Hoyt and their elitist Formula crap. That's like a car manufacturer coming out with a new car that will only run on one brand of gasoline, which only they provide. Incredibly lame if you ask me.


did you realy stopped shooting because Hoyt did not make new limbs for you?? are you kidding?


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## Basilios (Nov 24, 2012)

Mad Wally said:


> How about the GMX, best of both worlds! First class riser and free choice of limbs.


Yes! I love my GMX. Can't go wrong with it.


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## alaz (Mar 8, 2009)

Have you considered the Inno AL1 or AXT, or are you just looking at the carbon line?


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

Mad Wally said:


> How about the GMX, best of both worlds! First class riser and free choice of limbs.





Basilios said:


> Yes! I love my GMX. Can't go wrong with it.


+1 more for the GMX. I shoot an HPX and if I had to choose another riser, it would be a GMX first, followed very very closely by the MKX10, then Inno Max.


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## jarda (Nov 12, 2003)

Arsi said:


> +1 more for the GMX. I shoot an HPX and if I had to choose another riser, it would be a GMX first, followed very very closely by the MKX10, then Inno Max.


You would have preferred a HPX or GMX? What is the difference between them.


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## TheRohBoat (Sep 4, 2012)

You should try both. I had the opportunity to try both HPX, RX, and CXT. I went with CXT, because it felt closer to the feel I was going for which was a short thump with no vibration. The RX was more of a "whomp" and the CXT was more of a snap+buzzzz. There is no point asking on a forum which is better, because we will all say different things and at the end of the day it's your money and up to you to decide.

It's my personal opinion that Hoyt aggressively facilitates marketing practices by paying athletes and coming up with new product to keep the consumer interested and engaged (reference: TEC bar revival, stealth shot), compared to Win and Win whose pro staff aren't on Win and Win's payroll "as much" (I SPECULATE they get free kit, gear, $$$ etc, but not to the degree in which Hoyt does). 

Just my 2¢. Concentrate on shooting, but I know that daydreaming about a dream bow is something that is unavoidable (as I am a victim of this habit too).


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

jarda said:


> You would have preferred a HPX or GMX? What is the difference between them.


Like I said previously, I currently shoot an HPX with F7 limbs. Going with a GMX would allow me to try out a larger range of limbs.


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## Basilios (Nov 24, 2012)

I shoot the f7 limbs with my gmx and they are great. 

That being said I would love to try some win and win limbs out of curiosity.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> did you realy stopped shooting because Hoyt did not make new limbs for you?? are you kidding?


That isn't the only reason. I had to sell one of my bows. It just so happened that Hoyt went to the formula system around the same time, which made my decision about which bow to sell much easier. As far as my language about the subject, sorry but that's just how I feel about it. I am all about supporting American business, but not when they decide to be typical Americans and use a different system than the rest of the world for no good reason (except because they are greedy). If W&W made a riser with the sight screw holes at a non standardized distance, so that only the sights they make will fit their riser, I would be just as pissed at them. These things are standardized for good reasons. If it aint broke, dont fix it.


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

So you do realize they never "left" ILF behind? They just added the formula line to the ENTIRE line of recurves. Why would you be mad at adding variety?

Reasoning behind the formula system may seem "just greedy Hoyt" to you but others may like why and understand the engineering as to why they did this. Although these slight differences may only be a few points to the elite shooters why not have something else to try?


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Ten_Zen said:


> That isn't the only reason. I had to sell one of my bows. It just so happened that Hoyt went to the formula system around the same time, which made my decision about which bow to sell much easier. As far as my language about the subject, sorry but that's just how I feel about it. I am all about supporting American business, but not when they decide to be typical Americans and use a different system than the rest of the world for no good reason (except because they are greedy). If W&W made a riser with the sight screw holes at a non standardized distance, so that only the sights they make will fit their riser, I would be just as pissed at them. These things are standardized for good reasons. If it aint broke, dont fix it.



There are actually engineering improvements of the formula design over ILF. It's totally legitimate for a company to innovate a new design - just like hoyt did with the dovetail design in the first place.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

Okay, perhaps I was a little bit harsh. I do see the point in trying to be innovative. If that means that you have to move away from the international standard, you do it anyway because that is how innovation works. Now the Formula system is their "flagship" technology, which to the consumer (me) means everything else they are making is second-rate. Still good perhaps, but inferior to the Formula. So there is a lot of marketing pressure to switch to the Formula system as a Hoyt consumer. All their top shooters have them. But what if I, the consumer, am not ready to make such a large commitment to this technology which itself could be quickly outdated? What if after 2 years someone comes out with a magic limb made out of unicorn feathers (very hard to come by) that give my arrow twice the FPS at the same poundage, but it doesn't fit my formula bow? What then? I am not made of money, I can't afford a new riser AND unicorn feather limbs. No. Im sticking with ILF for now. :wink:


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

No doubt the GMX would be a perfect riser but my issue with that is the only pairs of limbs I own are allllll formula... If I go standard ILF it would coast me a couple extra Ben Franklin's for limbs... Biggest point to staying with formula but also the worst point. Feel chained to the formula limb choices  I just wanna kick myself for not thinking ahead when I first got into this sport and just wanted to buy the coolest bow I could get lol


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Ten_Zen said:


> That isn't the only reason. I had to sell one of my bows. It just so happened that Hoyt went to the formula system around the same time, which made my decision about which bow to sell much easier. As far as my language about the subject, sorry but that's just how I feel about it. _I am all about supporting American business, but not when they decide to be typical Americans and use a different system than the rest of the world for no good reason (except because they are greedy)_. If W&W made a riser with the sight screw holes at a non standardized distance, so that only the sights they make will fit their riser, I would be just as pissed at them. These things are standardized for good reasons. If it aint broke, dont fix it.


*Nuts to you, pal.*


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

hoytshooter15 said:


> No doubt the GMX would be a perfect riser but my issue with that is the only pairs of limbs I own are allllll formula... If I go standard ILF it would coast me a couple extra Ben Franklin's for limbs... Biggest point to staying with formula but also the worst point. Feel chained to the formula limb choices  I just wanna kick myself for not thinking ahead when I first got into this sport and just wanted to buy the coolest bow I could get lol


Well its not like the RX/HPX/Ion-x are not world class risers that you can move(upgrade) too. There seem to be a few every month that pop up on ebay if you want to go used, and they show up here too. 

But I understand the curiosity of wanting to try different equipment to see how it feels.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Engineering "innovation" aside, I'm pretty sure Hoyt got everything they wanted out of moving to the new design.

There is innovation, and then there is aggressive marketing. Hard to say these days which they are better at. 

After having shot the Formula bow, I agree it is a pleasant bow to shoot and is certainly worth a look from anyone willing to restrict their selection. And having other manufacturers now producing limbs for that system will help ease that issue as well. I was happy to see the young man from Mexico doing so well with a Formula riser and 2nd party limbs, if only to prove there were options for the consumer.

Hoyt has always produced superb risers. Their attention to detail, fit and finish is 2nd to none for their risers. The GMX didn't suit me though. A bit harsh on the shot, and the grip area was awkward - with a lot of bulk out ahead of the grip itself. I didn't care for it, but that doesn't mean it's not a world class riser. It is.

Only knock I have against W&W is that although they are beautiful bows with exquisite design and engineering, their durability can be questionable at times, and I've had some of their adjustment screws strip too easily (cheap metal) and bind on me when trying to adjust student's bows. The sharp "bark" they produce when you shoot them is unique, and I can see how it would appeal to a segment of archers over the dull "thud" of a formula bow or my SKY bows. I've not shot a W&W aluminum riser for nearly 9 years, so I don't know if that feel/sound carries over to their metal risers, or if its just a characteristic of their carbon risers.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

All I know is that even though there alot of "sexier" bows out there, my Winact keeps on coming through, never has let me down. So I won't change just for the sake of changing.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Winacts have been coming through for archers for a long time now. Hard to go wrong with that bow.


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

caspian said:


> yep, and gives you the worst of all worlds simultaneously.
> 
> if you want to go Formula, do it and accept it.


 I have the Uukha limbs and adapters and couldnt be happier. They are a great limb and that adapter makes them extremely versitile.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

kenn1320 said:


> I have the Uukha limbs and adapters and couldnt be happier. They are a great limb and that adapter makes them extremely versitile.


As do many folks, but it'll fall on deaf ears. The "worst of all worlds" mantra is a tired favorite of certain folks.


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

Formula bows do have a nice feel the limbs I do not care for though. I shoot with a GMX finish is top of the line as is pretty much the standard with Hoyt risers I have Win&Win Power limbs which are nice and quick. Carbon risers are not for me at the moment.

A former international archer I shoot with commented on how quiet my GMX bow setup was.


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## R&B (Oct 4, 2006)

*Carbon Vs. Aluminum*

I've had both the HPX and Inno risers. The HPX is great. I just sold it a few weeks ago. I shot it for almost 2 years along with my Carbon Innos. When I shot both bows back to back I can feel the more pronounce flex and vibration from the HPX. This is not a bad thing it is part of the personality of the riser. The Inno is smooth and direct (very little flex and vibration). I like smooth and direct. It is also nice on cold mornings touching the carbon riser. I don't tinker much with my equipment so the limb pocket adjustment isn't something I care too much about. Both systems work. 

I've always preferred the feel/reaction of the Carbon INNO bows. I own a 2013 Inno MAX. I've shot Win & Win for the past 6 years or so. I will continue to be a fan of carbon risers. 

Limb options are important however I never found myself wanting any other limbs for my HPX. I had both F7 and F3 limbs for my HPX the where more than enough for me. Unless you have some other issues with limb performance or feel the Formula limbs should work just. 

My Innos have always been my favorites and they continue to be. 

Shoot both risers. There is no bad choices at this level.


-R&B


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i am too old and have too many ILF limbs to even consider formula risers at this point..

...and besides--i still shoot my ILF rigs pretty well..


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

DWAA Archer said:


> Formula bows do have a nice feel the limbs I do not care for though. I shoot with a GMX finish is top of the line as is pretty much the standard with Hoyt risers I have Win&Win Power limbs which are nice and quick. Carbon risers are not for me at the moment.
> 
> A former international archer I shoot with commented on how quiet my GMX bow setup was.


That right there is a GREAT combination.


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