# Ibo shoot off question.



## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

What would you do if this happened to you?

As of 1pm today my wife was in a tie in her class. We approached Ken Watkins to ask if, when, and where would the shoot offs take place so that we could be ready. Ken informed us that there would be no shoot-off and that it would be listed as a tie. Based on that we left Bedford and headed for home. Now we find out that they did have a shoot off and due to us not being there they awarded the spot to the other archer. ( who ken had also originally told no shoot off as well)

We're really unsure what we should do. I feel the results should be protested and a legal shoot-off held at Erie prior to the award presentations. 

What do you all think?


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## bowtechog70 (Sep 14, 2005)

protest it and next time dont listen to ken


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

ol ken must have been havin a bad weekend... besides bein an :elf_moon: when asked a few questions, its not the only b.s decision they made ....protest for sure


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

Thats crap for sure hope it works out.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Ken, it pays to get it right the first time.


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## enabear722 (Oct 10, 2005)

Protest it for sure. I would think the IBO Ken would understand but then again it's the IBO.


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## evo 6 (May 9, 2011)

I also heard no shoot offs from ken after i sat around for 3hr.


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## goofyswife2788 (Jun 5, 2008)

When I asked Ken about the shoot off he was very for sure of himself that no shoot off was going to take place. He even congratulated me for my finish. Granted this was for fourth place but none the less I as congratulated and told awards would be given out at Erie and ties were standing. I'm happy with how I placed just upset that the opportunity to do the shoot off was taken from me. I was there ready and waiting. The kicker to this is the girl who tied with me was told the same thing. But through a mutual friend was called to come back that a shoot off was in fact going to take place. By this time I was an hour away on my way home. I'm taking nothing from her she shot well and deserves a "fair" chance as well. It's the principle of this that upsets me. Along with the fact that Mr Watkins is constantly making up his own rules. It's unfortunate that while we all must follow rules that in a lot of cases are questionable they are still rules none the less. However Mr Watkins this does not mean you get to make up your own rules and enforce them when you feel it benefits you. We the archers keep you and the IBO moving forward. Let's not forget this... All I want is for the right thing to be done. I'll be at Erie and will continue to shoot my best.


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## mocheese (Dec 19, 2003)

Wow, that sucks. Hope you protest it and they make it right!!


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

I thought they only did shoot offs to resolve ties for first place?

Learn something new every day I suppose.


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## buck_up_inohio (Dec 14, 2010)

there is no ties in the ibo! everybody knows that.....so i say let it be so nobody gets in trouble.. the way they did things at bedford.. which was my first time there by the way, i am not impressed at all!!! this is a fun sport and you got a....holes turning people in for loaning kids binos. sorry but the asa is alot like what we need sportsman!!!!! not people like ken who presses b.s.(i assume). i believe this will be my only year. i dont like the way some of these people act anyways all over a damn $5 buckle...whoooooo whoooooooooooooo.


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## goofyswife2788 (Jun 5, 2008)

Uh not sure if your attacking me here or not. But I'm not into "getting" anyone in trouble. Just merely pointing fingers at the IBO. Not shooters. Wow.


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

goofy2788 said:


> What would you do if this happened to you?
> 
> As of 1pm today my wife was in a tie in her class. We approached Ken Watkins to ask if, when, and where would the shoot offs take place so that we could be ready. Ken informed us that there would be no shoot-off and that it would be listed as a tie. Based on that we left Bedford and headed for home. Now we find out that they did have a shoot off and due to us not being there they awarded the spot to the other archer. ( who ken had also originally told no shoot off as well)
> 
> ...


I'm not sure that there was a shoot off for fourth, that .1 next to the X count has something to do with some other way they are deciding ties at these shoots, like previous participation or recent finishes. Go on the IBO web site and ask that question.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

If in fact they did have a shootoff for 4th place and you were told otherwise i would definitely protest it.
BTW, awesome shooting Aimee!

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## goofyswife2788 (Jun 5, 2008)

Yeah they had a shoot off. I'm waiting to hear from the IBO. To set the record clear I'm not pushing this to get anyone in trouble. Unlike what the above individual said. All I've done is ask the IBO to explain how this is right. No one to blame but myself. Should have known better than to listen to the president of the IBO. I'll take 5th. 

I have been told a shoot off takes place if it's a tie in a place that would receive an award. Fhc is awarded out to 5th place "i think" 
No I could care less about the award. This whole thing has to do with the principle of this issue. I'm still where I want To be within the triple crown. That's what is most important. But if either party is not present during a shoot off they flip a coin to determine who gets the x count. And again this is not what Mr Watkins explained. But oh we'll. I'm just merely interested in what BS the IBO will have to say. Outside of that I'm really happy with how I shot and how I finished. My goal is to make peers if I can do that I'll be a happy girl.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

ASA! Don't waste your time with the IBO! Sorry to hear about what happened to you!!


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

Geesh! You guys are starting to scare me...I am going to participate in the only qualifier in my state this year so I can go to Seven Springs in August...is it not worth going? what's the deal? please fill me in before I make a big mistake.


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## southpaw3d (Jan 19, 2003)

I had the same thing happen to me last year, and it was for 1st place, they said it would be a tie, but they awarded me second place. I would have been fine with this but my sponsors pay contingency money and from 1st to second is a nice little chunk of change. When I called the IBO, they said the other guy stayed for the shootoff, even after they said there wasn't going to be one. Later I found out, he didn't stay either. If the ASA wasn't so far away, I would never shoot another IBO again.


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## goofyswife2788 (Jun 5, 2008)

I shot London KY ASA last year. Had a blast. I agree if they weren't do far away I would most likely shoot them more. Their is a lot about IBO I like. The one BIG thing I don't like is the way it's ran. And my point there being how they flip flop decisions and ideas worse than politicians.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

I think Ken should step up and be accountable for his actions
Stop running IBO like a mafia and understand that the shooters pay the bills


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

cenochs said:


> ASA! Don't waste your time with the IBO! Sorry to hear about what happened to you!!


Too bad ASA's are a long way from most of us IBO'ers. Closest one to me is 13 hours, no thanks, until they move some closer.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> Too bad ASA's are a long way from most of us IBO'ers. Closest one to me is 13 hours, no thanks, until they move some closer.


London KY is probably the closest to you! Is it 13 hours? I drive from KY to FL and it only 12!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> Too bad ASA's are a long way from most of us IBO'ers. Closest one to me is 13 hours, no thanks, until they move some closer.



But....SO MUCH MORE TO DO....and SO MUCH MORE TO ENJOY


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

cenochs said:


> London KY is probably the closest to you! Is it 13 hours? I drive from KY to FL and it only 12!


Yes it is the closest, NE corner of PA to Bedford takes 13 hours, London is about the same. I'm not going to buy a ASA membership to shoot once a year either.We've discussed this before I'd love to shoot ASA but 13 hours for the closest is way too far for this guy. There's a ton of 3Ders in PA, OH, NY if there were a couple within 8 hours of me I'd go.

How about having one in VA, MD, OH, PA, WV alot of shooters up here, can't understand it. IBO goes down south every spring.


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## BROX (Sep 29, 2005)

Babyk said:


> I think Ken should step up and be accountable for his actions
> Stop running IBO like a mafia and understand that the shooters pay the bills


more like a union lol Yes I would protest


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

BTW nice shooting Aimee, hope you get it solved. Quite a wad of shooters at 393 lol.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> Yes it is the closest, NE corner of PA to Bedford takes 13 hours, London is about the same. I'm not going to buy a ASA membership to shoot once a year either.We've discussed this before I'd love to shoot ASA but 13 hours for the closest is way too far for this guy. There's a ton of 3Ders in PA, OH, NY if there were a couple within 8 hours of me I'd go.
> 
> How about having one in VA, MD, OH, PA, WV alot of shooters up here, can't understand it. IBO goes down south every spring.



See, that something I do not get...... We might be in the south.....and there is only ONE thats close everything else is over 8hrs away.... and we still attend them. 

ky - 11 hr
ill is 11.5/12.5hr
la is 11.5hr
tx i fly to or would be 18hr
classic is 9.5hrs 
ga was 8ish
fl is just over 2.



And please no one take offense to this....>But, I believe those that shoot ASA are a little more of the competitive side of the sport and ibo is just like weekend fun shooting.....This is just my opinion ...and this is a blanket assement...I know that those in the upper classes like pro ...its all competitive.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Protest. He's been doing it long enough to know how to handle ties. There is no way telling someone one thing and then promptly changing it up is reasonable.


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## s&w686 (Dec 4, 2011)

Wow. This kind of action will sure bring the new shooters in. The growth if the sport will be amazing. 


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

Well in the rules it states the "Host Club" decides on if there is a shoot off or not. Yes it is a national level IBO shoot, but the "club" determines if there is a shoot off for the spot, not the governing body. 

So the governing body may not have been aware that the club was going to hold the shoot offs. There are a ton of small logistic issues at a shoot of this size that decisions don't always filter back thru.


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

Wow! I gues if I'm tied I will be stayiong tiill the end just in case they have a shootoff.


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## Ghost23 (Jul 15, 2011)

Protest it with the IBO and contact White River Bowhunters http://whiteriverbowhunters.com/ to find out if they decided on a shoot off.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Grnmtn said:


> Well in the rules it states the "Host Club" decides on if there is a shoot off or not. Yes it is a national level IBO shoot, but the "club" determines if there is a shoot off for the spot, not the governing body.
> 
> So the governing body may not have been aware that the club was going to hold the shoot offs. There are a ton of small logistic issues at a shoot of this size that decisions don't always filter back thru.


True, But they have been doing this long enough they should of had those small details all worked out ahead of time, instead of an afterthought.


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## buck_up_inohio (Dec 14, 2010)

i am not attacking you at all you r my friend. just trying to make a point too the ibo,,,,, that GOD FORBID we act polite and sportsman like and all that good stuff. SORRY for wording it that way. sounds different in black and white.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

X force girl... could have been a misunderstanding thinking they were asking about the best of the best or one of the other shoot out that happen at the legs. But really all the big shoots have shoot offs to cover ties when money or national level titles are on the line. Could have been a brain cramp. Personally I would have asked more then just one person... and known that it is the club to go to.


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## goofyswife2788 (Jun 5, 2008)

I wasn't aware it was the hosting club who made the decision. Oh well we learn something new everyday. Still Ken should have known this at least I would hope he would.


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

Grnmtn said:


> X force girl... could have been a misunderstanding thinking they were asking about the best of the best or one of the other shoot out that happen at the legs. But really all the big shoots have shoot offs to cover ties when money or national level titles are on the line. Could have been a brain cramp. Personally I would have asked more then just one person... and known that it is the club to go to.


The question was a specific question to the president of the IBO pertaining to if there would be a shoot off for 4th place in fhc. There was zero confusion as to what was asked and what was answered. If the host club makes the decision then Ken should not have answered us with a resounding no but instead directed us to a club member to get our answer.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Grnmtn said:


> Well in the rules it states the "Host Club" decides on if there is a shoot off or not. Yes it is a national level IBO shoot, but the "club" determines if there is a shoot off for the spot, not the governing body.
> 
> So the governing body may not have been aware that the club was going to hold the shoot offs. There are a ton of small logistic issues at a shoot of this size that decisions don't always filter back thru.


The ASA seems to handle the "issues" much more effectively. I'm NOT saying the ASA is perfect! Just much better.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

they carry walkie talkies ...push the button get an answer right and stick to it...plus with walkie talkies everybody who has one hears the decision...


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## alfabuck (Dec 12, 2008)

The IBO does gotta get there organizational skills better. I think flipping a coin isn't a really good way to determine who wins. But that Stephanie Maduzia is a beast of a shot and she only practices once a week max lol!!!


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## RickT (Mar 14, 2009)

I agree that Stephanie is a great shot. I shot with her on Sat. when she shot 8 up on one course. BUT,give credir to Ammie for her shooting as they tied with the same overall score. The IBO and Host Clubs need to establish a system and stick to it. Nice shooting ladies and best of luck the rest of the year.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

goofy2788 said:


> What would you do if this happened to you?
> 
> As of 1pm today my wife was in a tie in her class. We approached Ken Watkins to ask if, when, and where would the shoot offs take place so that we could be ready. Ken informed us that there would be no shoot-off and that it would be listed as a tie. Based on that we left Bedford and headed for home. Now we find out that they did have a shoot off and due to us not being there they awarded the spot to the other archer. ( who ken had also originally told no shoot off as well)
> 
> ...


that would be simple for me, I would have told Ken what I thought of him to his face and would Never shoot IBO


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

3Dblackncamo said:


> that would be simple for me, I would have told Ken what I thought of him to his face and would Never shoot IBO



I agree 100%


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Grnmtn said:


> Well in the rules it states the "Host Club" decides on if there is a shoot off or not. Yes it is a national level IBO shoot, but the "club" determines if there is a shoot off for the spot, not the governing body.
> 
> So the governing body may not have been aware that the club was going to hold the shoot offs. There are a ton of small logistic issues at a shoot of this size that decisions don't always filter back thru.


that's interesting...a division of responsibility. that appears to have led to a real mess. either IBO runs these shoots or the "host club" runs the shoots. can't have it both ways. it may be that the IBO has grown too big to be handled by the current board and staff and now the "too many chiefs and not enough indians" conundrum has bit them in the back side.

somewhat off topic, a local guy said he arrived at the assigned shooting range at 9:30 and walked off around 6 p.m.


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## goofyswife2788 (Jun 5, 2008)

I want to be sure y'all understand I'm not disputing Stephanie what do ever. I've never met her but hear she's a great shot. This is not about her in any way what so ever. Hell I'm humbled to even be tied with her. The point I'm making is simple. The IBO needs to wake up and do things fair. Ken needs to understand he can't just do stuff like this. I've heard nothing from either the IBO or the host club from Bedford. So with that said I will be seeking Ken out at Erie and asking him why. I'm sure I'll get the same old hateful attitude but at least I'll get my word in. 
This is not about whose a better shot blah blah blah. This is about the integrity of the sport. If Stephanie is reading this I hope she understands. Looking forward to Erie and wishing all my female competitors the best of luck. Shoot em up ladies.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Well said!

You deserve a shootoff at Erie. 

I hate to say it but I don't think the IBO will make it right.

Good shooting and keep your head up. 





goofyswife2788 said:


> I want to be sure y'all understand I'm not disputing Stephanie what do ever. I've never met her but hear she's a great shot. This is not about her in any way what so ever. Hell I'm humbled to even be tied with her. The point I'm making is simple. The IBO needs to wake up and do things fair. Ken needs to understand he can't just do stuff like this. I've heard nothing from either the IBO or the host club from Bedford. So with that said I will be seeking Ken out at Erie and asking him why. I'm sure I'll get the same old hateful attitude but at least I'll get my word in.
> This is not about whose a better shot blah blah blah. This is about the integrity of the sport. If Stephanie is reading this I hope she understands. Looking forward to Erie and wishing all my female competitors the best of luck. Shoot em up ladies.


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