# What do you think holds you back?



## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

Indoor: Nerves, trust, influence. I have no idea why I get so wound up indoors but I'm a wreck. Then I either force shots I know I should let down, or just say screw it and grab my trigger and punch the rest of the way. The only way I know how to fix this is to go to more shoots, which there aren't many here, and stay disciplined. 
So basically, I need to get a grip on the nerves, trust my practice, and not let anyone else influence my game. Last year I came out on the second day of a shoot tied with a guy. I shot 11X's to start (we both dropped a 9 on the first end) He said "man, you better slow down on those" That was the moment I realized I was just shooting instead of thinking and that's when I started thinking instead of shooting. The next 3 arrows just caught the 10 line. I got composed after that and ended strong but who knows what I would've shot if I would have just stayed focused. I don't fiddle with my equipment, it does what it's supposed to. The only thing holding me back, and the majority I'm sure, is all between the ears. 
Outdoors I can't really say I have anything holding me back. When I miss the arrow hits behind the pin. 


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Lack of practice time.
5x in the winter months.
Very few ranges, most suck.
Most are a decent drive to get to.
I know what to do, and how to do it, but without practice, it's just knowledge, not skill.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

Have you tried to fix your issues or do you just hope it'll get better? What have you done to try and be less apprehensive?


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

No issues will get better on their own. I've only been doing this indoor thing for two years and I've gotten more comfortable. Mainly I just go in knowing the nerves are going to be there, so let them happen, and focus on a smooth release instead of trying to fight float. Fighting nerves just makes them worse and last longer. Be nervous during warmup, and let the adrenaline be fading by the first scoring end. I've worked on recognizing when my focus is broken, or something just doesn't feel right and letting down. Tournament scores will come, not giving in to poor shots is more important to me. 


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

This is a cool thread. Just this morning I was thinking about this exact topic! Beyond just the mental part and nerves, the direct impact on me right now is practice time. 

I actually set up a schedule this morning for practice with two options. One being if I can get outside at normal distances and one being if I can't and I'm shooting in my garage. 

I made the routine where it's not super demanding at first so it doesn't become a stressor where I go out to fling arrows just to get them in. I've scheduled in 3 to 4 days per week depending on the week and days things fall on to get me started. Minimum one Vegas round on a scaled mini target if I'm indoors or on a standard face outdoors with optional 150 rounds outside on a fita indoor face. 

My problem I've found is I'll get a flow going one week and it starts giving my muscle memory advances and my shot will flow better, but then I'll end up not shooting at all the next week and lose my progress. 

Scheduling it in should force me to schedule other activities around it so that my shooting isn't the activity suffering.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

Something I do when I don't have a place to shoot or I need to stop creeping back to bad habits is to shoot my bow at home inside with the scaled down target and my non releasing release. Stops a lot of apprehension because I have no arrow(s) in the target to look at and it teaches me a VERY CLEAN RELEASE. A bit of a boring task but it helps immensely.


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## Bob's My Uncle (Jan 9, 2012)

Lack of practice time (2 small kids and #3 on the way) -> hold not as steady and also falling back into old 90's habits of holding in the valley -> execution not as good as it should be -> lots of misses -> loss of confidence and less motivation to practice when I DO get the chance.

For me the real big thing is that I cannot seem to get the dot to sit still (can barely stay in the yellow on a Vegas target) (or when it does - maybe for a second or two every 5th shot or so - my shot to go off within the window )


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

Top of my list is target panic. I was a very avid rifle shooter as a kid, but looking back, I was also an avid trigger jerker, and I think the habit formed from doing that at a young age has cored very deeply into my Cro-Magon brain. 

With archery, any time I try a new hinge release execution method and get it to where it's comfortable, I can objectively say I'm deadly for a while, and it feels awesome, but not too long afterwards, I start anticipating the shot, then the "agent orange" starts kicking in [flinching].

One thing I've realized is the most effective hinge method [for me] is the GRIV hand relaxation combined with a bit of increasing back tension to keep the shot strong. In my case, neither of those methods lend themselves well to a "punch", whereas every other method I've tried that involves hand manipulation turns into a sort of punching, or forcing of the shot. It's a nasty disease.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

This is a awesome question, I know for me I have gotten better over the years and even at 47 years old I am still seeing improvement. I started my competitive archery later around 40 years old so I haven't been doing it that long.

I think that I am my own worst enemy sometimes so I try really hard to make sure I am doing productive things that are not totally screwing myself up but sometimes I fail and make bad decisions on setup or execution or game plan and I simply suffer. Experience from these failures is just something a guy has to go through and choose to not make those mistakes again.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Holding me back? Some age, maybe 2 or 3 past injuries, and presently aggravated with progress with the hinge. I can practice all I want, having 2 outdoor ranges (35 and 100 yards) and the nearest Indoor range only 10 miles distant. Normal for me is at least one practice session per day. I have the tools to perform just about anything archery, bow, arrows and whatever. Have enough different peeps and super peeps and sight frames (3) and have enough hinges, thumb and index releases.. 
Attitude; Really beginning to think going with a hinge full time is a mistake for me.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I have typed out three different responses to this question and I have pushed cancel each time and deleted them.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Mahly said:


> Lack of practice time......
> 
> I know what to do, and how to do it, but without practice, it's just knowledge, not skill.


This is exactly my problem. The only places I have to practice are outside, but there are no lights. So when it gets dark earlier, I can't see to practice. I can only shoot 7 yards in my basement. Not quite what it takes to get out of the mediocre category.

Allen


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Padgett said:


> I have typed out three different responses to this question and I have pushed cancel each time and deleted them.


Wrote several drafts before posting mine and it doesn't look quite to my liking. And just in from a short practice session just to check things. Heading for the Indoor range to shoot with a friend soon as he calls.


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

I too have pressed the delete button a few times. For me in my career there have been several things. In the early stages it was fear....fear of failure, of losing, fear of being humiliated...and the result was nerves. Everyone gets nervous. Some have the ability to handle those nerves better, some have acquired that ability to handle them through experience. I got past the nerves by learning to not be afraid to miss, not be afraid to lose. Do I still get nervous....yes, of course I do. But win or lose I'm still going to go home to a family that loves me, and I'll still be able to shoot again next time. I'm not losing anything but an archery tournament....well maybe the entry fee but that's it. Think of it this way, you pay to play golf, and don't get nervous about losing your greens fees because you can't get them back anyway...same concept for me anyway...my entry was what I paid to play. Having a chance at winning is a cool learning experience to go along for the ride.

This analogy doesn't work for everyone and it took some years of work for me to get over my personal fear and the pressure it was putting on my. Now my hurdle is managing my time to effectively practice in less time so I can spend more time with my wife and kids. Maybe one day I can make archery my professional obligation, but until then its at least 3rd in line for my attention if not lower (none of you will ever know how hard it was for me to learn that).


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

baller said:


> I too have pressed the delete button a few times. For me in my career there have been several things. In the early stages it was fear....fear of failure, of losing, fear of being humiliated...and the result was nerves. Everyone gets nervous. Some have the ability to handle those nerves better, some have acquired that ability to handle them through experience. I got past the nerves by learning to not be afraid to miss, not be afraid to lose. Do I still get nervous....yes, of course I do. But win or lose I'm still going to go home to a family that loves me, and I'll still be able to shoot again next time. I'm not losing anything but an archery tournament....well maybe the entry fee but that's it. Think of it this way, you pay to play golf, and don't get nervous about losing your greens fees because you can't get them back anyway...same concept for me anyway...my entry was what I paid to play. Having a chance at winning is a cool learning experience to go along for the ride.
> 
> This analogy doesn't work for everyone and it took some years of work for me to get over my personal fear and the pressure it was putting on my. Now my hurdle is managing my time to effectively practice in less time so I can spend more time with my wife and kids. Maybe one day I can make archery my professional obligation, but until then its at least 3rd in line for my attention if not lower (none of you will ever know how hard it was for me to learn that).


I deal with this too. My dad growing up was the, "If you're not first you're last" type. That mentality is great until you find a sport where winning 3 out of 10 times is considered success within that sport. Mentally you see yourself as a failure because you weren't perfect 10/10 times. 

That carries over in a lot of things and is something I personally have to find ways to deal with. I use a similar mindset now like what you've described and it helps a lot for sure. It's all about playing the game and learning and having a positive outlook that you gained something from it each time.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

*What do you think holds you back?*

Me.
Consistently steady hold.
Repeatably perfect shot break.
Maintainably high confidence level.



duc said:


> As the title states. But more importantly what do you try and do to fix it. And does whatever you do fix your problem or do things creep back. Your thoughts please.


It's a coupled system so I pick one that needs the most improvement and work on it.
This season's theme is _confidence_. The more confidence I have, the better the other three work.

Ebbs and flows are part of archery so ebbs are used as reminders that I already know I have everything I need to send it down the middle, all I need to do is convince myself (over and over).


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Honestly...desire. 

After 40 years of shooting I'm pretty much okay with archery being a social event.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Mine is just simple laziness.
When I'm at work at the shop I have time to shoot.
But, I always have something I need to do. Seems I cannot relax and shoot while there are other things that need to be done.
Bookkeeping, stocking, cleaning etc.

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## Jguy3348 (Feb 20, 2016)

Running out of time ..Never shot a bow till 9 months ago at the age of 66. Love it, what I lack in longevity I make up for in daily practice. Probably not going to ever be able to say I've been doing this for 40yrs. Padgett previous comment gives me hope. Maybe I can be the best ever at over 70&#55356;&#57337;


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

This is a terrible thread! It's making me think and feel bad about how I've been approaching archery. So I can't get to the range during daylight hours except on weekend. I could be shooting more in the basement. As I've gotten older, I find that my archery skills are very perishable. That is if I don't practice, the skills that I've worked so hard to learn will deteriorate. 

Resolved - Shoot every night in the basement even if it's only 7 yards. It's way better than nothing.

Just kidding about it being a terrible thread. It is actually an awesome thread. Thanks for starting it!  

Allen


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

aread said:


> This is a terrible thread! It's making me think and feel bad about how I've been approaching archery. So I can't get to the range during daylight hours except on weekend. I could be shooting more in the basement. As I've gotten older, I find that my archery skills are very perishable. That is if I don't practice, the skills that I've worked so hard to learn will deteriorate.
> 
> Resolved - Shoot every night in the basement even if it's only 7 yards. It's way better than nothing.
> 
> ...


Dang! I ain't gonna tell ya I practiced a bit yesterday morning at home then 3 hours at the local Indoor range and flung a few more arrows after I got back home 

7 yard practice can actually help. I can just get 7 yards in my garage. There is satisfaction of putting a arrow in the same hole time after time and to do that is remaining calm, collected and relaxed for that smooth execution of the shot. Unless you have a loose wound string or really pointed points splitting a string each and every time isn't going to happen, but making that string "dance" still gives satisfaction. I use regular kite string and have it near touching the bag. A hit on the string can make the weight on the end of the string do some bouncing and flying around you don't want.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

XForce Girl said:


> Mine is just simple laziness.
> When I'm at work at the shop I have time to shoot.
> But, I always have something I need to do. Seems I cannot relax and shoot while there are other things that need to be done.
> Bookkeeping, stocking, cleaning etc.
> ...


You and me both, girl. That's why I have a bale at home, and shoot after hours when I can. 

Many have said not enough practice for one reason or another. Visualisation and dry fire practice, using one of the many training aids, is invaluable. 

Lanny Bassham, an Olympian rifle shooter, went for a long period of time without being able to shoot. He would stay in his room and dry fire practice for hours at a time, and go straight to a championship, and win it. This, and visualization, i.e. vividly imagining your shot process in every detail, is just as productive as the real thing. It's proven. 

At every opportunity, I am doing this while I nurse a bum draw shoulder back to full strength. Some call it creating muscle memory, but we're actually laying down myelin. A substance in our nerve fibers that assist with making repetitive motor skills more easily repeatable. Interesting stuff. 

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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I find the dry fire stuff works much better with firearms than with archery gear. I can dry fire my handgun at home and make great strides, but it seems much less effective/practical with archery equipment.
Working on firing engines? Yeah, dry fire there can work well, but most of the rest of what archery practice is for me doesn't translate well, or practically with archery gear.
(reminds me, I need to get at my dry fire for the pistol before work!)


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

tension in the back end, as the round progresses i get more tense with the hinge end, pulling harder which causes more tension in the front end. I let down a lot but you cant get away with too many let downs at a timed shoot. I can go up close and blind bale all day long and get good releases close to 100% of the time, so I've been working on bridging, shooting at 8 yards, aiming and trying to get relaxed shots off, working good so far but still needs a lot of work.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Love the thread, it gets me at least thinking about our own drawbacks or whatever you want to call them. I'm happy with my 3d shooting and do just fine during competitions. During practice I do just fine on a Vegas face at home but go to an indoor shoot and I fall apart struggling to break 295s now. I need to get out Lanny Basham's book and read up on the mental aspect some more. Perhaps that will help me? Oh yeah, the hinge does fine for me during practice and sometimes even during 3d competitons I will break it out and no problems. Put on the Vegas face and others watching and a timed event and disaster.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

ILOVE3D said:


> Love the thread, it gets me at least thinking about our own drawbacks or whatever you want to call them. I'm happy with my 3d shooting and do just fine during competitions. During practice I do just fine on a Vegas face at home but go to an indoor shoot and I fall apart struggling to break 295s now. I need to get out Lanny Basham's book and read up on the mental aspect some more. Perhaps that will help me? Oh yeah, the hinge does fine for me during practice and sometimes even during 3d competitons I will break it out and no problems. Put on the Vegas face and others watching and a timed event and disaster.


You expect to much from yourself. This is my biggest problem and one that I can't seem to find a solution for.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

ILOVE3D said:


> Love the thread, it gets me at least thinking about our own drawbacks or whatever you want to call them. I'm happy with my 3d shooting and do just fine during competitions. During practice I do just fine on a Vegas face at home but go to an indoor shoot and I fall apart struggling to break 295s now. I need to get out Lanny Basham's book and read up on the mental aspect some more. Perhaps that will help me? Oh yeah, the hinge does fine for me during practice and sometimes even during 3d competitons I will break it out and no problems. Put on the Vegas face and others watching and a timed event and disaster.


How do you set up your hinge and shoot it?


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## Coug09 (Feb 4, 2007)

I love this thread!

I can honestly say that my shooting is in a great place and definitely on the upswing after hitting an all time low about 3 years ago after making a bow manufacturer change. 

I'm working on the right things and seeing improvement. My new job will allow me to shoot more local tournaments and practice more in the evenings. I've been practicing so little at times throughout the year, that I show up to an ASA and have to relearn a lot of things in a day and a half

I'm coming off one of my best years ever and can't wait for this one to start


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## Cheeeser96 (Sep 21, 2016)

Its all mental for me! Practice practice! Work on getting used to shooting around people, therefore shooting in more shoots will fix it for me!


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

RCR_III said:


> How do you set up your hinge and shoot it?


Sorry for the delay but went away to the lake for the weekend. I set them up like Griv suggested in his video using the click. Two identical Scott pro advantage except one is set just a bit colder than the other.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

ILOVE3D said:


> Sorry for the delay but went away to the lake for the weekend. I set them up like Griv suggested in his video using the click. Two identical Scott pro advantage except one is set just a bit colder than the other.


It's possible there could be two things going on when you feel tense at a shoot. One could be you're getting too timid with the release and needing a lot extra movement. Slowing the release down a little and giving yourself the reassurance to know you can add in some weight from the outer fingers to get them engaged could help. Also, you may be keeping the tension in the hand and not relaxing as easily to execute the shot, if you're using the GRIV method. The speed change could help with this. Or you may end up having to go to a different style of execution. One where tension doesn't hurt as bad.


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## throth (Nov 11, 2016)

*Obviously its because I don't have expensive enough equipment.*

Couldn't have anything to do with me only being able to go out and shoot once every ~3 weeks


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

RCR_III said:


> It's possible there could be two things going on when you feel tense at a shoot. One could be you're getting too timid with the release and needing a lot extra movement. Slowing the release down a little and giving yourself the reassurance to know you can add in some weight from the outer fingers to get them engaged could help. Also, you may be keeping the tension in the hand and not relaxing as easily to execute the shot, if you're using the GRIV method. The speed change could help with this. Or you may end up having to go to a different style of execution. One where tension doesn't hurt as bad.


I have to be careful going back and forth. I used to shoot the hinge by relaxing the hand and it would fire. Didn't mean to but I did this relax thing with my Carter and shot both the arrow and my release, unfortunately neither hit the target. I know it's mostly mental, when I'm leading say in a 3d shoot of course I tend to shoot better and more aggressive. If I'm falling behind I tense up and things get tough. Competition here is mostly shooting with your groups and second day leaders shoot together so it's not that hard to know where one is in the standings.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

nochance said:


> tension in the back end, as the round progresses i get more tense with the hinge end, pulling harder which causes more tension in the front end. I let down a lot but you cant get away with too many let downs at a timed shoot. I can go up close and blind bale all day long and get good releases close to 100% of the time, so I've been working on bridging, shooting at 8 yards, aiming and trying to get relaxed shots off, working good so far but still needs a lot of work.


Follow up: I have adjusted the release colder and draw with more pressure on all fingers. I have not been letting down nearly as much. I have noticed that my better rounds are my later rounds, if i shoot two or three 30 arrow rounds its almost always the later rounds that are the highest. I also let down more in the later rounds. Still trying to break the 299 barrier.


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## Precision299 (Jan 14, 2016)

My main problem is being able to fund my passion. All the pieces of the puzzle are expensive and it takes me quite a bit of time to aquire them. Just a background, I'm 17, a senior, and have a seasonal job working on a farm that allows me to get some equipment throughout the year. This year, I have bought my first competition bow package (hoyt pro comp elite, hamskea drop away rest, (5) Easton fat boy arrows, and a hard case), a truball fulkrum release, and an Axcel CXL sight with a x-41 scope. Anyways, I got a good deal on everything, but have spent a lot more than I thought I would and still have to get a few more things to complete my setup. After I graduate, I'll be able to get a steadier job to support my passion. Until then, practice the best I can with what I have. 
My second problem is there are not many local shoots in my area. The ones that are around aren't close enough to go to very often. There's not too much I can do to fix this. Although, I plan to practice as much as I can before the event so I can make the most of it when I am able to go. 
My third problem is I think I have target panic. Its not bad and some days I have it and others I don't. Due to it not happening often, I'm not sure if I should devote time to get rid of it, or since it isn't bad, just work around it. I'm not exactly sure what to do to fix this one.


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## georgiaarts (Sep 30, 2016)

Mainly for me it's the mental game. I tend to get distracted fairly easily while shooting, and when I do my form goes out the window. Also, I lose confidence quickly when my shots aren't going the way I want and it can be hard to bounce back. 

I mainly try working with my coach on my mental thought process and confidence and control exercises.


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## oldpro888 (Dec 31, 2010)

That's easy. Age. Not a damn thing I can do to change it. It's hard to except I'm just not as mentally sharp or physically strong and every year I see a difference.


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## glennx (Oct 7, 2006)

Same here. Every year you loss a little bit. I would say it is age and eyes.


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## justok (Nov 25, 2016)

RCR_III said:


> It's possible there could be two things going on when you feel tense at a shoot. One could be you're getting too timid with the release and needing a lot extra movement. Slowing the release down a little and giving yourself the reassurance to know you can add in some weight from the outer fingers to get them engaged could help. Also, you may be keeping the tension in the hand and not relaxing as easily to execute the shot, if you're using the GRIV method. The speed change could help with this. Or you may end up having to go to a different style of execution. One where tension doesn't hurt as bad.


It took me a good while to accept and train around being tense. Being a solid 300 60X , 27-30 X in training I was getting " tense " on line and things would fall apart - 51 & 55 X at nationals the last time I shot -
I started training to shoot strong. Things I changed were shorting my draw as so I was more in the bow , my shot went from relaxed to extremely aggressive. The push pull was greater , the tension in my shot was higher . My take on the release became higher and adjusted my front end to create more push . My shot timing dropped by half. Most of all I was expending 100% of my energy on each shot , my window for aiming was very very brief 2-3 seconds , if the shot did not break I am forced to let down and start my sequence over. Shooting " relaxed this would crush me on the clock - 
This was a 2-3 hours per day 6 month make over , starting at point blank range -

In person the shot looked very relaxed and in fact it is in ways


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

In my limited experience, there are only two things that hold me (or anyone else) back: lack of skill and/or lack of commitment.


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

My first answer to this was target panic - still true. However, I'm going add in lack of fitness as a close second. After a long layoff from working out due to elbow injury that happened just about a year ago, I started back to the gym about a month ago. Yesterday evening, after not having touched my bow much in the past two weeks, I shot a few dozen arrows, just working on my shot. What a difference! My shot felt *so good* compared with the past 6 months or so. Because I don't have time to shoot as much as I like, shooting alone isn't enough to keep my "shooting muscles" in shape - at least I can see that now. But now, I'm very solid at full draw - relaxed but firm so to speak - and I was pulling through the shot in a way I haven't since before I hurt myself.


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## justok (Nov 25, 2016)

TNMAN said:


> In my limited experience, there are only two things that hold me (or anyone else) back: lack of skill and/or lack of commitment.


well put


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## justok (Nov 25, 2016)

Anything negative , including and especially listening to and reading about other peoples problems. I believe this whole heartedly. 
:shade:


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## AJ the TP Guru (Jul 29, 2011)

I likely hear many more versions of "what holds me back" than this thread will generate, but they mostly boil down to:

1) nerves
2) lack of concentration
3) unknown (meaning what's going on in the archer's subconscious mind)


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## Robert0711 (Mar 19, 2013)

Its a mental game. I have been shooting for 25+ years now at least 4 to 5 times weekly. I have shot in local state and national shoots indoors and out. I have always had the issue of holding in the center without dropping low and having to come back up. I tried back tension releases, dead release, fingers over the years and same issue no matter what. I shot many 300 scores indoors nfaa but spot count was upper 40's to low 50's. Currently 73 and it is getting shakier each year, but I enjoy shooting and competing and still in my mind think I can do better even 300's are a thing of the past.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> Honestly...desire.
> 
> After 40 years of shooting I'm pretty much okay with archery being a social event.


This^, I'm a decent shooter but I'm not going to win any big event - just the way it is and I'm good with it.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

No good place to practice indoor the bow shop gets $20 dollars a hour The club I go to has a great outdoor range 28 target nfaa range 40 3d targets Need a indoor range for the cold winter


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

Me, myself and I


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## tuckarch (Sep 19, 2002)

Quality Time with the bow to get good habits in my head....

Destroyed back and shoulders....

Eyes are slipping now...

When I was a firefighter, I had days off to practice/travel.... now its working everyday and not practicing..

The biggest thing beside finances holding me back though is 2 shoulder surgeries..... 1 was good, the other shortened my collarbone which screws with where my release side elbow ends up at full draw..


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## klstrphnky (Jun 19, 2013)

my single biggest draw back is probably also my biggest asset to shooting.
trying to find the happy place in between is rough.
for me its my drive to be the best.
it makes me train harder, practice more and want it more.
the flip side of that is i get down on myself when shooting doesn't go right. 
i dont get upset when someone beats me, i get upset when i do something to let them beat me. 
when that happens mid shoot, its all down hill from there...


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