# After shot vibration and arrow flight



## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

I just got my Hoyt horizon 25" riser with sammick privilege 24# long limbs. I went to shoot it today and my first problem is that after the shot there is tremendous limb vibration. You can visually see large vibrations after the shot for about 5 seconds if you're looking at the limbs. Also, the arrow flight is really wobbly. My draw length is 32.5, so I had a friend shoot it and it didn't vibrate so much and the arrow didn't wobble so much. is it something I'm doing wrong or is there something I could do to decrease the vibrations and wobble during flight? Thanks


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

First thought is it could be a "plucky", sloppy (no offense intended) release, resulting is a lot of sideways vibes as the arrow releases. 

Second, have you tried adjusting your string twists to fiddle with brace height at all? Could be an improperly set brace height. Check the recommended BH for your riser, then add string twists to get the BH into about the mid-range.

Third, that sounds like what my wife's first bow did, when she was shooting 18# limbs at 24" draw length. 24# limbs are perfect for learning, but on a 70" bow, they're (for lack of a better term) wimpy, so that there's not as much tension at rest to stop the "wobbling" you see after the shot. All bows would theoretically do that some, but the heavier the limbs, the sooner it'll cancel. At lower poundages, the vibrations can last longer.

As for the arrow flight, how well are the arrows matched to the bow? In other words, what level of preliminary tuning/set-up have you done? If the nock height is off, the plunger centershot is way out, your follow-through isn't too clean, or the arrows are just WAY too stiff (or weak) for your DW, it could be causing some really poor arrow flight.

These sorts of things are really tough to diagnose textually, but with a bit more info, we may be able to help you get closer. Also, more info on your background (is this your first bow...?) would help. It doesn't sound like you've got anything serious to worry about, and it's something that will work out as you get your bow set-up and you develop your form more.


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks for the great reply. Yes I agree with you it's pretty wimpy. I could hold the bow at anchor with my pinky for 30 mins if I had to. As far as the arrows, I use gold tip carbons 5575. I tried to go down to 3375s, but the arrow length is too short. I cannot use any arrow shorter than full length. This isn't my first bow, but I am kinda new to bow shooting. I had a bear grizzly recurve 55#. I had no arrow flight problems with that bow at all. Brace height is at 9 inches. Should I try to increase it?


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

You could try decreasing the brace height, but what I think is that it is a tillering problem. One limb bolt may be in a lot further than the other, causing one limb to release its energy before the other, causing massive vibrations as the arrow is released. Just my 2 cents and may be totally wrong, but try shooting with a tiller of 1/8 inch positive.


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

Good thought, Ken -- could be on to something. Tiller. Check the distance from the string to the base of each limb right where it disappears into each end of the riser. If they're way different, that might be it.


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

m013690 said:


> Good thought, Ken -- could be on to something. Tiller. Check the distance from the string to the base of each limb right where it disappears into each end of the riser. If they're way different, that might be it.


Ok, measuring like that, the upper limb is approx. 8.25" and the lower limb is approx 7.75". Is that one of my problems?


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

Could be. 1/2" tiller split is pretty drastic. Adjust the limb bolts so that the distance of the upper limb from the string is about 1/8" greater than the same distance for the lower limb. This is something that you might end up later fine tuning, but for now, 1/8" positive is a very good and neutral starting point. Still not sure if it's the whole problem, if your buddy shot it without the same problems you reported, but if there's a difference in draw length and follow-through, it's possible his technique masked the problem some. Either way, 1/2" split is big, so adjusting it is something you really ought to do anyway.


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

Also there could be too many twists in the string. That could cause it to act more like spring.


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

Well I fixed the tiller issue. It is now 1/8 positive. Shot it in my back yard. It made the vibration slightly better. I'm thinking it's just because the limbs are light.


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

I checked the twists in the string and they are fine.


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

I would hazard a guess, based on tiller being better and string twist fine, that it's just a combination of beginner's release and poor spine matching. Do you know how heavy your points are?


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

hwjchan said:


> I would hazard a guess, based on tiller being better and string twist fine, that it's just a combination of beginner's release and poor spine matching. Do you know how heavy your points are?


My points are 100 grain. Should I go heavier? I havent had any problems with my release with my other bow but I still won't rule it out.


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## Rlcplano (Apr 13, 2012)

Your gt arrows would be awesome with a 60 pound plus compound but are far to stiff for a recurve. Your gt spines are around 400, you need spines closer to 1000 (weaker) for your set up.


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

Where can I get spines that are weaker but are still full length like the ones I have?


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

At that draw length, it's going to be hard to find anything weak enough. You may just need to grow into the arrows by getting stronger and gradually increasing your draw weight as you are able.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

m013690 said:


> At that draw length, it's going to be hard to find anything weak enough. You may just need to grow into the arrows by getting stronger and gradually increasing your draw weight as you are able.


At the same time, I don't think he'd ever really grow into those arrows. The problem here, though, is that he needs a very weak spine arrow, but also a very long arrow, at at least 32.5" for the draw length. Most weak spine arrows come stock pretty short in length. You can't get a longer stock shaft until you go up in spine, which is not what you need. Looking around, I think I would invest in some Eclipse 2013. They aren't as weak as you need, but they are the best you are going to get right now I think, and they are a whole lot better than the 5575 you shoot now. Leave it full length (because you don't have room to cut lol), put a big point on the end, feathers on the back, and see if they fly better.


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## GilG (Aug 20, 2006)

You need to strengthen up and shoot heavier limbs.


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

If you're going into the X7 line, you might as well save a bit more and just use the equivalent spined XX75 instead. It will be cheaper and just as good an arrow. A 20xx spined Platinum Plus, uncut, might serve you well.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

hwjchan said:


> If you're going into the X7 line, you might as well save a bit more and just use the equivalent spined XX75 instead. It will be cheaper and just as good an arrow. A 20xx spined Platinum Plus, uncut, might serve you well.


Oh, I missed that the Platinum Plus also comes in a 2013 size at 32.5". I was looking at weakest spine at 32.5" and didn't see it in that shaft. Definitely go for the Platinum, then, as the arrow is still good quality and quite a bit cheaper. 

In other news, I didn't realize that they make a 2712 Jazz arrow. Has anybody seen one?


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## aaronthesun (Oct 13, 2011)

They make a 2712 Jazz arrow? 

Can I get some for my compound to use at Vegas, or is that a little bit too risky? XD


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

So if I buy the 2013 shafts, will they work with 30 or 32 lb limbs also? The 24 lb limbs are way too light for me.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

I'd say they would work better with 32 lb limbs than 24. The 2013 is the weakest spine I could find in the length you need, and it is still too stiff, just way better than other options. Moving up in lbs will help quite a bit.


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## TheOldNewbie (Mar 31, 2012)

With a 32.5" DL, your 24# limbs should be giving you about a 30# DW at your DL. With 32# limbs, it should be about 40#. I would think that you would want about a .620 spine with the 24# limbs and about a .530 spine with the 32# limbs for a 32.5" arrow with 100 gr points. If you go by the Easton chart then you would want about a .500 spine with the 24# limbs and a .450 spine with the 32# limbs. Some think that the Easton chart is perfect and others think that it is at least 1 group too stiff. My very limited experience is with 1 group or perhaps 2 too stiff. The 2013 spine is .610, so it would likely be too soft for the 32# limbs. The next step up in a 32.5" PP is the 2114 at a .510 spine.


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## TheOldNewbie (Mar 31, 2012)

Rlcplano said:


> Your gt arrows would be awesome with a 60 pound plus compound but are far to stiff for a recurve. Your gt spines are around 400, you need spines closer to 1000 (weaker) for your set up.


I think that a 1000 spine would be perfect for a 28" arrow and a 24# draw weight. However, with a 32.5" arrow with 100 gr points and an actual DW of about 30# with 24# limbs it is going to be very soft.


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

TheOldNewbie said:


> With a 32.5" DL, your 24# limbs should be giving you about a 30# DW at your DL.


Actually, I've found that the old "2# per inch" thumbrule is very accurate, so at 4.5" over 28", his DW would increase by 9#, not 6, resulting in 33# on the fingers, rather than 30#. That's even more likely here with the VERY long DL, and the higher possibility he could be stacking.

I've had very good luck with OT2 for shaft selection, and based on that software, assuming the 32.5" DL and getting 33# actual on the fingers, it recommends Platinum Plus 2016s. Those come stock at 32", but if his actual DL is 32.5", he could possibly take 1/2" off that and still have enough arrow in front of the rest to shoot them safely and have some room to adjust DL as his form improves. That's with 120 gr. points, and OT2 shows it just BARELY on the stiff side, which is actually about where it'll work well for recurve.

He could also go with the PP 2013s, which would be too weak (as you said) for normal point weights, but the nibbs that go with those are only 68 grains, and with that combo, leaving the arrows at 32.5" (full length), OT2 again shows them just about perfect (which means just a hair on the stiff side).

Finally, no, the 2013s aren't going to be able to work with the heavier limbs. Too much of a jump. You MIGHT be able to get away with that jump if you went with 2016s initially, and then later (with the heavy limbs), you get the lightest possible points (80 gr.) and trim 1/2" from the shaft (if you can). Even then, they look a bit too weak, but they might be tunable. Probably best to plan on a new set of arrows if you make a jump of 8# like that.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Not a thing in the world wrong with good aluminum arrows for a scenario like this...


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

One trick you can do with aluminum (dang site can't spell aluminium  ) arrows is make them slightly longer. Sacrifice one shaft by cutting it into sections (1/4", 3/8"...) long. Fit these sections onto the point insert with hot melt as normal before sliding into the shaft - one longer shaft results. Only downside is that there is less insert length holding the shaft.


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

Also, I think I can adjust the tiller on my riser to increase the poundage correct? Screw in both tiller adjustment screws all the way, then back out the top screw to 1/8 inch positive?


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

You guys are givng me lots of good information on this, thanks for that. Whenever lancaster has some higher # limbs of sammick privilege in stock i'll get some. Could be about 3 weeks to a month though. I'm actually really suprised with my groups and accuracy considering the arrow looks like its about to do a cartwheel in mid air. I've been doing 3 under with my bear recurve, now that I switched to this olympic setup i've been using the olympic style form.


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

1. Yes, you can adjust poundage by screwing the the limb bolts. BUT, that's really more of a tuning adjustment, as, at best, you might be able to get an extra 5% out of them that way.

2. Have you considered Alternative Sporting Services in the UK? I'm a HUGE fan of Lancaster, but when they're out of stock, ASS might come through for you. I ordered something from them recently, and the shipping was only $9 for standard first class (same as USPS First Class). And they shipped he day I ordered it. Might be worth checking.


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## Jwilliams8785 (Apr 6, 2012)

m013690 said:


> 1. Yes, you can adjust poundage by screwing the the limb bolts. BUT, that's really more of a tuning adjustment, as, at best, you might be able to get an extra 5% out of them that way.
> 
> 2. Have you considered Alternative Sporting Services in the UK? I'm a HUGE fan of Lancaster, but when they're out of stock, ASS might come through for you. I ordered something from them recently, and the shipping was only $9 for standard first class (same as USPS First Class). And they shipped he day I ordered it. Might be worth checking.



Is it still $9 shipped to the US?


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

That what it was for me. All I ordered was a bow stand, so I suspect the shipping will go up with larger/pricier items, but I still thought that was really reasonable. Heck, if I'd ordered from Lancaster, it would have been $8.50 anyway.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

about 20bucks for a riser. go to alt and enter everything and you will get a shipping rate. they dont bill you until you confirm via email so there is no danger of plugging things in to see what the shipping turns out to be.


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