# I have a idea for Levi!



## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I hope with the success and fun he had in Redding that with his new archery
tour he is starting that maybe he will incorporate a east coast
redding style shoot! He has the connections and influence right
now. What do you guys think?

PS: Levi is the best 3D shooter in world right now and he could
not even shoot even on a field known 3D course so as far as I can
see the debate is over to which is more challenging !


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Agreed on the first part


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

it wasn't a true field event.

112 arrows shot at 28 targets is a better test of skill. For some reason it intimidates too many into trying it.

don't get me wrong, levi has incredible talent as an archer, but to say he would score better than the top 10 pros at mechanicsburg did is stretching it. If he chooses to shoot darrington, then you can make a fair and equal comparison.

field is NOT as easy as you think it is.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

That's a pretty silly statement.....first it wasn't a field shoot. 

2nd the best field shooter in the WORLD didn't even clean it....and I don't think he has ever won it either....his best friend did last year though and he finished 2nd this year....and he didn't clean it either....and neither did McCarthy when he won back to back....

Not cleaning a course doesn't mean anything....just like being the best 3D shooter doesn't mean that your going to win indoors or do well...and it sure doesn't mean you are going to do well at field.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I don't know how you guys take the second part of my statement but what I was implying
is any type of field is harder than 3D and since Levi is the best in the world
at 3D right now it just showed how hard this shoot was.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

What do you guys think of a east coast redding event ? I think there would be a huge turn out!


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

cenochs said:


> What do you guys think of a east coast redding event ? I think there would be a huge turn out!


It might be fun, but it wouldn't be a Redding turnout. It's big in Redding b/c they don't have the huge IBO and ASA shoots out there. The ASA events draw 1300+ per shoot. That's bigger than everything but Vegas and Indoor Nationals I believe and it might even be bigger than those for all I know.

You would think that the R100 events in the south would work better than they do to. You know what R100 stands for? R 100 people gonna show up


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

cenochs said:


> I don't know how you guys take the second part of my statement but what I was implying
> is any type of field is harder than 3D and since Levi is the best in the world
> at 3D right now it just showed how hard this shoot was.


They are all hard.....not cleaning Redding means nothing. There are a lot of arrows in the target...heck a kiss out could stop you from shooting clean.

Different games played well by different people.....my point was that the best shooters in the world regardless of their chosen venue doesn't mean that one is really harder then the other. If Levi wanted to shoot field and FITA as his main focus then he would do VERY well....he can flat out shoot period. It wouldn't take him long to move into the top of the game.

But fact of the matter....financially it would be a wrong move on Levi's part to move away from 3D....there is really only ONE big field shoot a year in this country....Nationals.....and the shoot is the same time as the ASA Classic so why shoot field? I sure wouldn't if I were him


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> They are all hard.....not cleaning Redding means nothing. There are a lot of arrows in the target...heck a kiss out could stop you from shooting clean.
> 
> Different games played well by different people.....my point was that the best shooters in the world regardless of their chosen venue doesn't mean that one is really harder then the other. If Levi wanted to shoot field and FITA as his main focus then he would do VERY well....he can flat out shoot period. It wouldn't take him long to move into the top of the game.
> 
> But fact of the matter....financially it would be a wrong move on Levi's part to move away from 3D....there is really only ONE big field shoot a year in this country....Nationals.....and the shoot is the same time as the ASA Classic so why shoot field? I sure wouldn't if I were him


Exactly right BH. The guy is a great shot, plain and simple. Take a guy who is good at any discipline and put them in another for a couple years and they will rise to the top. I would even venture to say if Reo put a lot of time into judging yardage and shooting 3d, he would be pretty darn good at it.


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Just for the sake of discussion, I believe unknown distance 3D is much more difficult than field. It is much easier to shoot a known distance spot accurately than an unkown distance quarter size spot without a distinct aiming point. The only really difficult part of field is shooting 112 shots perfectly, but the exact aiming point makes it much easier than shooting 40 perfect 3D shots at a big blob without an aiming point and hitting that little 12 ring, or for that matter, the 10 ring, even if you know the precise distance.

I don't intend to say field is easy, just that I find it more difficult to aim at a 3D target than a field target, although I score pretty well in either discipline usually.

It also seems that top 3D shooters more easily transition to spots than vice versa, but that probably is based on the yardage judging aspect more than the difficulty involved in aiming at 3D targets. Right now, it would be difficult for top 3D shooters to challenge the top field shooters and for the field shooters to challenge the top 3D shooters. Levi would be as likely to be the one who could go either way successfully should he decide to do so.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

rsw said:


> Just for the sake of discussion, I believe unknown distance 3D is much more difficult than field. It is much easier to shoot a known distance spot accurately than an unkown distance quarter size spot without a distinct aiming point. The only really difficult part of field is shooting 112 shots perfectly, but the exact aiming point makes it much easier than shooting 40 perfect 3D shots at a big blob without an aiming point and hitting that little 12 ring, or for that matter, the 10 ring, even if you know the precise distance.
> 
> I don't intend to say field is easy, just that I find it more difficult to aim at a 3D target than a field target, although I score pretty well in either discipline usually.
> 
> It also seems that top 3D shooters more easily transition to spots than vice versa, but that probably is based on the yardage judging aspect more than the difficulty involved in aiming at 3D targets. Right now, it would be difficult for top 3D shooters to challenge the top field shooters and for the field shooters to challenge the top 3D shooters. Levi would be as likely to be the one who could go either way successfully should he decide to do so.


Levi is probably the most well rounded shooter hands down. Dominates ASA, top five at Nats, has made the shoot off at Vegas, won Redding on first trip out. He can just flat out shoot. Gillingham is very well rounded also and of course we saw what Cuz can do with 3D when you take the guessing game out. He's no one trick pony either.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

cenochs said:


> I hope with the success and fun he had in Redding that with his new archery
> tour he is starting that maybe he will incorporate a east coast
> redding style shoot! He has the connections and influence right
> now. What do you guys think?
> ...




WOW!!!! EVEN???????  Apparently you have NO CLUE how he redding shoot is scored or shot. Levi TIED THE RECORD at 5 down for the weekend shooting from 4-101 yards. 70 targets 2 arrows per target with a total of 1540 points possible he shot a 1535.The record is held by Rodger willet,Danny McCarthy,Shane Wills and now Levi.To say that this is not a true test compared to filed is ridiculous. Is it the marathon shoot with so many rules you can loose a arrow for not moving 18 inches to the side or not switching from top right to bottom left...........NO but it is much longer targets which i am sure levels the playing field.I love field but in redding you DONT shoot a 80 yard target then move closer shooting at the same spot. To compare Redding with what Levi does (3D) is comical! Here is the FACTS- Can a great 3D shooter come play indoors,redding,field and do well??? HECK YEAH because SHOOTING is part of their game.Can a marked guy like Jesse B,Shane,Rodger,Kevin Wilkey,Braden or myself come do well at a 3D????? Not very easily because JUDGING yardage is NOT part of our game. That doesn't make one better then the other is just makes them different and it is what it is so stop hating on guys that CAN cross over like its some be all end all deal breaker in favor of one venue over the other.As much as you 3D guys love to get a spottie out on the 3D course and laugh as he miss judges targets the same can be said for getting a average 3D guy shooting out to 100+ yards up/down hill and seeing how that goes. If you really want to know about the redding shoot and how tough it can really be ask some of the guys that came out (Levi,Griggs,Christenberry,Beaubeuf, etc) they had a blast but it was a learning experience also.How would Levi do at field..................................JUST FINE once he learned all the rules the kid can shoot a darn bow! Would he hang with The freakshow Jesse B???????????? most cant but he would have a better chance then MOST.
What intimidates NEW people from trying field is all the BULL BUTTER rules! I love field to death but most wont even try it because of the rules and people who just wait for the OP to call out a rule so you loose a arrow.

A east coast redding shoot would be DA BOMB YO!!! they would need a HUGE venue.


Did Danny McCarthy get this kind of flack when he won back to back at Redding? Good lord people what does a guy have to do to get his props??


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Oh and just a thought................ Jesse B has cleaned the field and hunter(lots o times now btw) but has NEVER cleaned Redding? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm so IS field the better test makes you wonder ?? Hardcore field archers want to you think so BUT????? just saying?? i haven't won either. LOL


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

OK now that Greg got his words in let me rant a little bit. There was a comment on this thread about how 3D is harder than marked distance shoooting--I completely disagree! Take this scenario: an average 3D guy steps up to a 39 yard target, judges the distance at 42 yards, drops out of the shot and shoots an 11. If he had to shoot another arrow it might be an 8 if he makes a good shot--but he just scored an 11 and will never know that it was bad judging and a poor shot that got him the 11. I know a TON of hardcore 3D shooters that get their butts handed to them at field shoots and safari shoots like Redding. Besides I use a rangefinder when I hunt. I still respect the 3D game and it has it's place, but for the average joe--I think 3D creates bad habits and form flaws.


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Andy: the same can be said about the field shooters. The avg FS field shooter scores around 510-520 or so. Same thing for the average 3D shooter. They don't score so well either. It isn't the judging that makes 3D difficult to shoot although that is what makes the scoring difficult. It is trying to hit an invisible target - no dot makes it very difficult *TO AIM *in comparison to a field target spot- easy to aim at and not much of an excuse for missing since you can see absolutely what you are trying to hit. 

Like you, I know a bunch of field shooters that don't shoot 3D, but get beaten up pretty badly by the 3D shooters at our few field archery events out here. You are wrong saying that 3D shooters are poor shots when compared to field shooters. Both disciplines have their good shooters and their ordinary participants. I can almost agree that 3D may have a few more less skilled shooters, but field archery has quite a few as well.

I carried a 550+ field average for many years and still shoot an occasional 550 at the NFAA nationals at 69 years of age. I am and have been a pretty fair 3D shooter, although up and down, as well. This is just my opinion based on my personal experience. These are two different disciplines with different required skills. To me, it is easy to aim at and hit a spot, but much more difficult *TO AIM AT * (read: hold steady) and hit an invisible 12 ring on a 3D target.


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## Jesse (Mar 11, 2003)

All Im gonna say is, East coast marked 3D shoot like Redding... HECK YEA!!

And 2..... I hope Levi always has a very important 3D shoot that he just cannot possibly miss, whenever the NFAA field nationlas are scheduled..... LOL!!

I think the timing of the Redding shoot has a little to do with why the record is 5 down, and why the NFAA rounds have been cleaned.... Everyone has over 2 months longer to get prepared for NFAA nationlas.... Redding is one of the first couple outdoor shoots, and for me, the weather usually doesnt allow much time to prepare.... Ive said it from the first time i went to Redding, "that course is cleanable", but you know what, its always a couple targets that get ya, and targets that should be easy, but it happens to alot of people every year. I missed a 20 yarder, and had a glance out on an 18 yarder, this year..... I would have been somewhat ok, if I didnt have those misses, when the dust settled........

Anyhow, Levi would rock a field course, no doubt...... It all comes down to who has their head on right, a good setup, making good shots, and the conditions.....

just my half a cent.....


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

rsw said:


> Andy: the same can be said about the field shooters. The avg FS field shooter scores around 510-520 or so. Same thing for the average 3D shooter. They don't score so well either. It isn't the judging that makes 3D difficult to shoot although that is what makes the scoring difficult. It is trying to hit an invisible target - no dot makes it very difficult *TO AIM *in comparison to a field target spot- easy to aim at and not much of an excuse for missing since you can see absolutely what you are trying to hit.
> 
> Like you, I know a bunch of field shooters that don't shoot 3D, but get beaten up pretty badly by the 3D shooters at our few field archery events out here. You are wrong saying that 3D shooters are poor shots when compared to field shooters. Both disciplines have their good shooters and their ordinary participants. I can almost agree that 3D may have a few more less skilled shooters, but field archery has quite a few as well.
> 
> I carried a 550+ field average for many years and still shoot an occasional 550 at the NFAA nationals at 69 years of age. I am and have been a pretty fair 3D shooter, although up and down, as well. This is just my opinion based on my personal experience. These are two different disciplines with different required skills. To me, it is easy to aim at and hit a spot, but much more difficult *TO AIM AT * (read: hold steady) and hit an invisible 12 ring on a 3D target.


I still have to disagree--most 3D shooters in my area won't even shoot field because they NEVER shoot past 50 yards and pull super high weights and would NEVER consider even shooting a field round due to the high amount of arrows shot. Then take the IBO--Hunter class has a max of 35 yards--just get a million FPS bow with a 300 grain arrow, 2 pins and just aim inside the front leg and you will darn near shoot par! I know what I am talking about--this isn't my first rodeo either.


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

I also forgot to mention that most field guys dont have a "3D" setup and shoot their slow accurate field setups and at the the same time the 3D guys are shooting their 350 fps setups. SO when an average field guy mis judges--he misjudges big. I see this stuff everyday.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Jesse said:


> All Im gonna say is, East coast marked 3D shoot like Redding... HECK YEA!!
> 
> And 2..... I hope Levi always has a very important 3D shoot that he just cannot possibly miss, whenever the NFAA field nationlas are scheduled..... LOL!!
> 
> ...


And there you have it from the horse's mouth so to speak...

2 points out of first at Redding and National Field record holder???Tough to argue with that huh...???


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

andy1996 said:


> I also forgot to mention that most field guys dont have a "3D" setup and shoot their slow accurate field setups and at the the same time the 3D guys are shooting their 350 fps setups. SO when an average field guy mis judges--he misjudges big. I see this stuff everyday.


Mine isn't so much about my bow being slow, but more about my aiming reticle. I use a 6x Tru-spot scope for field, try aiming at a 3-d target with that. All you see is a big brown blur...I have no intention of setting up another bow with a different set up for the 1 or 2 3-ds I shoot a year...

Sometimes I get lucky and there is a splotch of color or a hole I can see, then look out...

I've seen some guys that do pretty well at 3-d locally fail miserably trying to shoot field. Most are folks who simply can't aim at a dot and don't have the drive to address the issues that cause that...

On the other side of that coin, I've also seen some 3-d guys come out and tear up a field course...


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Jesse said:


> All Im gonna say is, East coast marked 3D shoot like Redding... HECK YEA!!
> 
> And 2..... I hope Levi always has a very important 3D shoot that he just cannot possibly miss, whenever the NFAA field nationlas are scheduled..... LOL!!
> 
> ...



Jesse, if you clean any of the days in Darrington I will personally cook you an elk steak and fresh crab dinner at my trailer. Not that you can't. I just want to see it and dinner is just reward. Any other night is elk burgers on the BBQ. But you gotta get there before Jammie she can pack em away. 

I think that with the 3 day Redding will get cleaned some day.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

andy1996 said:


> I still have to disagree--most 3D shooters in my area won't even shoot field because they NEVER shoot past 50 yards and pull super high weights and would NEVER consider even shooting a field round due to the high amount of arrows shot. Then take the IBO--Hunter class has a max of 35 yards--just get a million FPS bow with a 300 grain arrow, 2 pins and just aim inside the front leg and you will darn near shoot par! I know what I am talking about--this isn't my first rodeo either.


Spoken by a true PRO. :tongue::tongue::tongue::wink:


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

There is no point at all in arguing which venue in archery is toughest. Each has its' own set of difficulties, and each is mastered by someone. There are good and bad at all. I've come to like them all, but the real reason Field sees less participation is because it becomes an endurance contest rather than a shooting contest. That, and once you have shot a range, it never changes. For every 10 archers you ask to try Field, 9 will tell you it's too much shooting. Many who like Field give that as the reason they like it, but they are in the minority like it or not.

As far as scoring, in Field, if you make a bad shot, you will get penalized. In 3D, you could get lucky and come away with max points on a bad shot. It happens. Or you can get few points for a perfect shot. It's tougher to hit what you are aiming at on a 3D target for multiple reasons, but that doesn't make it any tougher or less of a venue than Field. From time to time, Field ranges are cleaned. There's no such thing as perfect in 3D that I've ever heard of. 20 12's or 20 14's ain't gonna happen. I guess in Field you could dig deep and look at X count, but......

But you can't compare apples to oranges. All are different. If they weren't, then we would all shoot all of them and love them all. The thing I really LIKE about Field the most is that it gives a more accurate picture of how you are shooting and how your equipment is performing. No doubt about it. You just aim and shoot.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> Jesse, if you clean any of the days in Darrington I will personally cook you an elk steak and fresh crab dinner at my trailer. Not that you can't. I just want to see it and dinner is just reward. Any other night is elk burgers on the BBQ. But you gotta get there before Jammie she can pack em away.
> 
> I think that with the 3 day Redding will get cleaned some day.




He did last time so why wouldn't he again??? LOL


Jesse- Thanks for your input and i agree that IF Levi learns field he would do just fine.1 more number i would fall?? dangit!!! i welcome him and every other 3d guy to come to redding,Field nationals etc because i want to shoot against the very best archery has to offer but for some reason people seem to think Levi being the best at 3D means he just gets lucky in Redding and couldn't shoot Field well?????  Just goes to show how much people DONT understand what it takes to be a champion archer.


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## Leviticus (Dec 11, 2008)

Look guys, I love 3D... it's what i've done my whole life. Redding was my first experience at any sort of field coarse and i've gotta be honost it was awesome. It was kind of a mix between the two venues. I felt like i left a couple of points out there on the coarse but I also feel that its cleanable. As far as me making the top ten at a field event who knows, Jesse B is the man...but I may just show up one day and see if I can squeek out a decent finish. I don't think there's any way to really say which is harder (3D or Field) but I have yet to see a field shooter win a 3D. If its your set up thats holding you back then change it and put your money where your mouth is. If 3d is so easy then step up and all of this about luckin' in to twelves is crap. Yea maybe every once in a while but if youre tryin to win a tournament or shooter of the year off of luckin in to the middle then good luck. I guess it's easy to sit back in your computer chair at home and make statements about something from your point of view. If you think it's so easy then grow a pair and come shoot one. As a matter of fact bring a range finder. Until then... I had a great time in Redding and Lord willing I will be there next year. I shot with Jesse, Shane, Roger, Dwayne, Greg which are guys from just the spot world and I know that if any of these guys practiced 3d they would be great at it, and same goes for the top guys in 3d. It's just shooting your bow, if your good then your good. If your not then practice more or shut up. Bananna Pancakes @#$%^!!! P.S. Every body that was in my group at Redding I had a great time with you guys and gals Em! Oh yea a shout out to my buddy Darrin C. who had a bad first day and still got seventh. Levi Morgan


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

bigGP said:


> He did last time so why wouldn't he again??? LOL
> 
> 
> Jesse- Thanks for your input and i agree that IF Levi learns field he would do just fine.1 more number i would fall?? dangit!!! i welcome him and every other 3d guy to come to redding,Field nationals etc because i want to shoot against the very best archery has to offer but for some reason people seem to think Levi being the best at 3D means he just gets lucky in Redding and couldn't shoot Field well?????  Just goes to show how much people DONT understand what it takes to be a champion archer.


True but you guys were on the Handicap course that day. I cleaned that 2 weeks ago. :wink: You know that I'm not taking anything away from him or anyone else. It's all archery.


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## TheShooter (Apr 2, 2003)

I totally agree with Jesse and BigGP....

Last year I won the redding shoot at 5 down and even with better conditions this year I shot 6 down. Last year it poured rain down and I shot better then than what I did this year on 3 perfect days of weather... It comes down to who can keep there head on straight for three days and has a great set up to boot! 

This year I was lucky enough to be in Levi's group and shoot with him all three days! I had a blast and if his arrows were not dead center they weren't far from it!! I know for a fact that he can hang right with the top group of guys on a field course!! I shot behind him on the Pro/Am range in Redding and he was flat out pounding! 

I hope he does have a 3-d shoot that falls on the Outdoor Nationals just so I have a chance to be in the top group....lol I wish there was one last weekend!! JK Levi!! I have watched this guy make the shoot off in Vegas, Louisville and now win Redding...... I am sure that he can be very competative on a field course...... just hope he stays away from the challenge that people have layed down on here for him!!

P.S. Get a Redding style shoot going on the East Coast would be Awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

what up Shane?? I agree man a shooter is a shooter its just a matter of adapting to the particular venue. as we all know its generally not the hard ones that get us its the easy ones we get lax on ( Like 18-20 yard gophers,32 yard badgers on steroids with giant dots,or birdie targets at nationals in Yankton). Is Redding cleanable......yep! but it hasnt been done yet and alot of things will have to fall into place for it to happen.It will eventually i bet.

OMG- a Redding style shot in the East or midwest would be SICK!!!!! the amount of people that would come would be incredible!!!! Banana Pancakes FO SHO!!! LMAO


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Jesse said:


> All Im gonna say is, East coast marked 3D shoot like Redding... HECK YEA!!
> 
> And 2..... I hope Levi always has a very important 3D shoot that he just cannot possibly miss, whenever the NFAA field nationlas are scheduled..... LOL!!
> 
> ...


This is a pretty good post, with one MAJOR flaw. What is this "Nfaa rounds have been cleaned"????

There are LESS than 10 "clean Field/Hunter rounds" in the HISTORY of the NFAA Outdoor Nationals (post 1976 target change/scoring era)!

Terry Ragsdale shot the first one way back in what, 1989 or so....with shot in site marks, no "cut charts" no "computerized site tape", and a SLOW bow shooting less than 225 fps. Jesse B, shot a 560 that same year as a CUB. Then it was several years later before it was done for the 2nd time. Jesse B became the FIRST EVER to shoot a "perfect 560 FIELD round"....and it was only a couple of years ago...and he has now done it twice, and has what 5 of the less than 10 perfect 560's hunters/field rounds EVER!

So, NFAA rounds "cleanable"....??? only by a very limited and gifted, and talented FEW shooters. Cousin Dave, Jesse B, Joe Kapp, Reo Wilde, Terry Ragsdale. Over the course of 34 years....5 men, NO ladies, and NO "amateur Freestylers" of any age have done it in National Competition (other than Jesse B as a CUB back in 1989 or so).

Thus, "they" are "cleaning it" is totally bogus...and certainly nothing that is as common as gnats in a field, that is for sure.

There may be lots of rules in FIELD shooting..but the people at the top of the heap aren't using the RULES EXCUSE as any sort of "problem" with their scoring...they take the heat themselves and place the blame on PERFORMANCE...and that, folks, has nothing to do with the rules of the game.

NOBODY to blame but yourself if you don't follow the rules; nothing to blame but YOU if you miss the bullseye, NOBODY to blame but yourself if you break a rule and get called on it. Of course, I will also say that the rules are NOT written so clearly that all you have to do is read them and go out and play the game.

NOT SO...the rules DO NEED REVISION...they are NOT clear. Several are written such that even seasoned field shooters cannot CORRECTLY score targets when there has been a "rules infraction" of shooting arrows from the wrong shooting stake and "getting out of sequence"...this includes even the NFAA Directors themselves that cannot correctly interpret the supposed clearly written rules.

A bit of double talk from the fieldman...but those rules do NEED TO BE CLARIFIED and brought up to readability and less "interpretation" and less "gray area"...and into the reality of BLACK AND WHITE.

I sure would like to be able to shoot a couple more 557's on field and hunter before I get much older...but....not likely to happen.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

field14 said:


> ...
> So, NFAA rounds "cleanable"....??? only by a very limited and gifted, and talented FEW shooters. ....field14 (Tom D.)


Tom, who do you suppose you're replying to here.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

field14 said:


> This is a pretty good post, with one MAJOR flaw. What is this "Nfaa rounds have been cleaned"????
> 
> There are LESS than 10 "clean Field/Hunter rounds" in the HISTORY of the NFAA Outdoor Nationals (post 1976 target change/scoring era)!
> 
> ...





UMMMM speaking of MAJOR flaws................i am just going to assume that you KNOW that he IS Jesse Broadwater???? LOL and alot more people have been cleaning the hunter and almost cleaning the field then have EVER come closer then 5 to cleaning redding in less arrows???


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> Tom, who do you suppose you're replying to here.


dang it!! you got me by less then 1 minute! LMAO


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## RchurE (Mar 20, 2007)

field14 said:


> This is a pretty good post, with one MAJOR flaw. What is this "Nfaa rounds have been cleaned"????
> 
> There are LESS than 10 "clean Field/Hunter rounds" in the HISTORY of the NFAA Outdoor Nationals (post 1976 target change/scoring era)!
> 
> ...


:chortle: my, my, my... :chortle: You crack me up man. Look who you quoted.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

JayMc said:


> It might be fun, but it wouldn't be a Redding turnout. It's big in Redding b/c they don't have the huge IBO and ASA shoots out there. The ASA events draw 1300+ per shoot. That's bigger than everything but Vegas and Indoor Nationals I believe and it might even be bigger than those for all I know.
> 
> You would think that the R100 events in the south would work better than they do to. You know what R100 stands for? R 100 people gonna show up




just a quick FYI- thats LESS then Redding.Kinda funny how some 3D people think only their shoots draw big numbers.I bet a redding style shoot in the east or midwest would draw more then any shoot ever!


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

Leviticus said:


> Look guys, I love 3D... it's what i've done my whole life. Redding was my first experience at any sort of field coarse and i've gotta be honost it was awesome. It was kind of a mix between the two venues. I felt like i left a couple of points out there on the coarse but I also feel that its cleanable. As far as me making the top ten at a field event who knows, Jesse B is the man...but I may just show up one day and see if I can squeek out a decent finish. I don't think there's any way to really say which is harder (3D or Field) but I have yet to see a field shooter win a 3D. If its your set up thats holding you back then change it and put your money where your mouth is. If 3d is so easy then step up and all of this about luckin' in to twelves is crap. Yea maybe every once in a while but if youre tryin to win a tournament or shooter of the year off of luckin in to the middle then good luck. I guess it's easy to sit back in your computer chair at home and make statements about something from your point of view. If you think it's so easy then grow a pair and come shoot one. As a matter of fact bring a range finder. Until then... I had a great time in Redding and Lord willing I will be there next year. I shot with Jesse, Shane, Roger, Dwayne, Greg which are guys from just the spot world and I know that if any of these guys practiced 3d they would be great at it, and same goes for the top guys in 3d. It's just shooting your bow, if your good then your good. If your not then practice more or shut up. Bananna Pancakes @#$%^!!! P.S. Every body that was in my group at Redding I had a great time with you guys and gals Em! Oh yea a shout out to my buddy Darrin C. who had a bad first day and still got seventh. Levi Morgan


Levi,you shot great,and dont let the shudas and ifs and maybees get under your skin.Everyone can speculate on which is tougher or harder for them or who ever shoots them both.I have had great shooting days and dismal days,it all depends on which one of me shows up that day.Im sure you can relate to that theory.Good shootin and have a good day!


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

bigGP said:


> just a quick FYI- thats LESS then Redding.Kinda funny how some 3D people think only their shoots draw big numbers.I bet a redding style shoot in the east or midwest would draw more then any shoot ever!


I agree that it would be a great shoot, but caution everyone because it would take one helluva club to pull it off.


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

Great post Levi. You wrote everything I was thinking but didn't have the guts to post.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

One thing about Levi's accomplishment this weekend. Not only did he tie the record but he did it while carrying bigGP around the course all weekend. :tongue::wink:


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

bigGP said:


> just a quick FYI- thats LESS then Redding.Kinda funny how some 3D people think only their shoots draw big numbers.I bet a redding style shoot in the east or midwest would draw more then any shoot ever!


Cool, I hope it happens in the east.....and don't lump me in with anybody you big ugly bastrich   :darkbeer:


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

JayMc said:


> Cool, I hope it happens in the east.....and don't lump me in with anybody you big ugly bastrich   :darkbeer:


LMAOROTF!!!!! ROG!


I would be HUGE if someone did throw a safari back east! :mg::mg::mg: as long as its close to someone that i know so i have a place to crach out? LOL


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> Tom, who do you suppose you're replying to here.


Exactly whom I KNOW I'm replying to. "They" are cleaning the round...is only talking what, a total of 5 people since 1976? It isn't as if shooting a 560 field or hunter is a "common thing".

If you could count the total numbers of rounds shot by every competitor in the NFAA National Field tournament for every year since 1976....and take the TOTAL NUMBER of "560's" shot for that same time period...you will find that the percentage of total perfect 560's shot is so low it is ridiculous.

"more and more are shooting 560's? Yes, it is true....but even last year's percentage of 560's shot when compared to the total number of rounds shot by every competitor in the tournament is extremely LOW. It is "cleanable", yes, but ONLY by a handful of shooters. "IF I woulda, coulda, shoulda" means NOTHING...you GOTTA, plain and simple. It positively isn't a cake-walk.

Also, I believe that RANDY ULMER, a person that won his share of major 3-D events...was a WORLD CLASS TARGET SHOOTER prior to his taking up 3-D; and there are a few others out there as well. But that is OK, Randy was competing a long, long time ago; probably before many of those now at the top started shooting.

Just want to make sure people aren't getting the idea that shooting a 560 field or hunter round is a "walk in the park" and it is as common as feathers on a bird.

People may get the idea that it is time, yet again, to make yet another change because the round is now "too easy." The "change" in the mid 1970's was led by that mentality and by the top of the top, cream of the crop shooters of the day; it wasn't made for/by the "average Joe" that pays the bills.

Tom D. (field14)


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

Tom - you're missing Bob's point.

You went on your lecture circuit by quoting a poster regarding the number of clean field rounds and correcting him. That poster was Jesse B.

That's why Bob, big brother Poole, and RchurE said what they did. You even used Jesse as the example when you lectured him.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JayMc said:


> Tom - you're missing Bob's point.
> 
> You went on your lecture circuit by quoting a poster regarding the number of clean field rounds and correcting him. That poster was Jesse B.
> 
> That's why Bob, big brother Poole, and RchurE said what they did. You even used Jesse as the example when you lectured him.


Kind of kicked his own "Soap Box" out from under his own feet :doh:


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## deadlyjest (Mar 30, 2009)

*A Redding on the East Coast*

I would love to see a Redding Style coarse on the East Coast. Maybe they could shoot it sometime in Mid-August. As far as which one is harder, I have not shot enough 3D to know but I would put money that if anyone could "clean it" I would bet on Jesse or Levi. I know enough about these shooters to say that I would love to watch them compete in any forum. Shane is another I would not bet against. Anyone who would downgrade these shooters are out of touch with reality, they are the best at what they do and if they say they could clean it I believe it. 
Thanks Jesse for jumping in, my daughter shot with your wife on Saturday in Louisville and came home raving about her, you and your wife are a credit to Archery and the sport.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

andy1996 said:


> I still have to disagree--most 3D shooters in my area won't even shoot field because they NEVER shoot past 50 yards and pull super high weights and would NEVER consider even shooting a field round due to the high amount of arrows shot. Then take the IBO--Hunter class has a max of 35 yards--just get a million FPS bow with a 300 grain arrow, 2 pins and just aim inside the front leg and you will darn near shoot par! I know what I am talking about--this isn't my first rodeo either.


all of us shoot past 50 yards. none of us pull over 60 and none us shoot over 280 fps. ASA rules down here. and yes a twelve at 45 is much tougher than a big dot at 80.
I'm with RSW on this one.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

field14 said:


> Exactly whom I KNOW I'm replying to. "They" are cleaning the round...is only talking what, a total of 5 people since 1976? It isn't as if shooting a 560 field or hunter is a "common thing".
> 
> If you could count the total numbers of rounds shot by every competitor in the NFAA National Field tournament for every year since 1976....and take the TOTAL NUMBER of "560's" shot for that same time period...you will find that the percentage of total perfect 560's shot is so low it is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Go back and read Jesse's post. No where did he indicate that the target was too easy or common. All he did was indicate that they have two more months available to prepare for outdoor shooting.

Which kinda makes sense as far as the insurgence of "3D shooters" doing well in Redding...they've been shooting outside since January.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

field14 said:


> Exactly whom I KNOW I'm replying to. "They" are cleaning the round...is only talking what, a total of 5 people since 1976? It isn't as if shooting a 560 field or hunter is a "common thing".
> 
> If you could count the total numbers of rounds shot by every competitor in the NFAA National Field tournament for every year since 1976....and take the TOTAL NUMBER of "560's" shot for that same time period...you will find that the percentage of total perfect 560's shot is so low it is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Go back and read Jesse's post. No where did he indicate that the target was too easy or perfect scores common. All he did was indicate that they have two more months available to prepare for outdoor shooting.

Which kinda makes sense as far as the insurgence of "3D shooters" doing well in Redding...they've been shooting outside since January.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

bclowman said:


> all of us shoot past 50 yards. none of us pull over 60 and none us shoot over 280 fps. ASA rules down here. and yes a twelve at 45 is much tougher than a big dot at 80.
> I'm with RSW on this one.


BIG dot??? LMAO Levi will pound a 12 at 45 aiming at thin air AND pound the X at 80 but a nfaa size dot at 80 is not a gimme and a 12 at 45 isnt either but i would take the 45 shot EVERY-TIME........................IF i knew the yardage. LOL


Tom D- dude just back away from the Mic homie!


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

bigGP said:


> BIG dot??? LMAO Levi will pound a 12 at 45 aiming at thin air AND pound the X at 80 but a nfaa size dot at 80 is not a gimme and a 12 at 45 isnt either but i would take the 45 shot EVERY-TIME........................IF i knew the yardage. LOL
> 
> 
> *Tom D- dude just back away from the Mic homie!*


:zip::zip::zip:


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## deadeyedickwc (Jan 10, 2010)

if any of the top 3d or spot shooters practice long enough at a certain venue they will be good at it ,because their archers and can shoot both good with some practice,


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## ultratec1 (Jan 3, 2005)

And this is why we dont get Pro's posting on here alot. You have guys that think that they know it all and in all actuality they dont know their ass from their elbow. 


Thanks to Levi, Shane and Jesse for taking the time to comment on this thread.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

ultratec1 said:


> And this is why we dont get Pro's posting on here alot. You have guys that think that they know it all and in all actuality they dont know their ass from their elbow.
> 
> 
> Thanks to Levi, Shane and Jesse for taking the time to comment on this thread.




While i do agree the difference here is a bunch of dip sticks didn't pile on.1 or 2 people threw a top dogg under the buss and At'rs put it in perspective.If AT members had treated pros like this thread we wouldnt be in the situation we are.Not that pros never need to be called out or whatever because we all know a few certain top pros are some of the biggest douche bags in archery but when people intentionally or ignorantly call out a top pro we as At members need to police our own.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

bigGP said:


> While i do agree the difference here is a bunch of dip sticks didn't pile on.1 or 2 people threw a top dogg under the buss and At'rs put it in perspective.If AT members had treated pros like this thread we wouldnt be in the situation we are.Not that pros never need to be called out or whatever because we all know a few certain top pros are some of the biggest douche bags in archery but when people intentionally or ignorantly call out a top pro we as At members need to police our own.


Gotta agree with GP here....nobody is attacking PROs in this thread. In fact PROs post in the field forum from time to time....we protect our own over here this aint Gen Pop :wink:

And when I say our own I mean archers period....you step out of line you will get pimped slapped back in line :chortle:

This section of the forum is nothing like any of the other parts of AT :wink:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Kind of kicked his own "Soap Box" out from under his own feet :doh:


I knew exactly to whom I was speaking. It was not "lecturing"...it was simply TRYING to make the point that "they are cleaining it" wasn't common-place...and the "THEY" included himself, and a very, very limited FEW others.

I felt that it may give the idea that the perfect 560 plateau was becoming "easier" exponentially by more and more INDIVIDUALS, when in reality, that list over the past 3 years has been pretty much 3 people.

No LECTURING involved, or at least, that wasn't my intent. Simply trying to clarify that this game is NOT so simple for us "mere mortals".
In addition, Randy Ulmer indeed was a World Class TARGET archer before he became dominant (in his prime) in 3-D. Right off the top of my head, I can't think of others, and won't go to the trouble of researching.

I do agree, however, that it is more difficult for a top target shooter to become the "cream of the crop" in 3-D, than it is for a top 3-D shooter to work to the top of the Target circuit.

IMHO (and this is MY opinion), I think a lot of that is that the top 3-D shooters have trained themselves that they have only ONE SHOT...they have to make it good, and then the next ONE shot has to be perfect too...otherwise, they are done for. Target shooters, do NOT have the "ONE SHOT" mentality; at least not to the degree of those top-notch 3-D shooters!

That is why I've stated many times, that in a "sudden death" one shot for all the marbles shoot off between a top "spottie" and a top "chewie"...the CHEWIE has a huge advantage; the CHEWIE is used to doing this one shot routine every weekend, while the top spottie sees this one shot for everything only once in a while.

No offense intended, and hopefully, none taken.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

field14 said:


> I knew exactly to whom I was speaking. It was not "lecturing"...it was simply TRYING to make the point that "they are cleaining it" wasn't common-place...and the "THEY" included himself, and a very, very limited FEW others.
> 
> I felt that it may give the idea that the perfect 560 plateau was becoming "easier" exponentially by more and more INDIVIDUALS, when in reality, that list over the past 3 years has been pretty much 3 people.
> 
> ...




On that note in regards to cleaning rounds there are ALOT more people clean 1 or 2 down EVERY YEAR on field courses but the RECORD in redding with fewer arrows is still 5 down. makes you have to wonder which is truly harder or if Jesse's point of what time of year they occur contributes account outdoor rust is gone by nationals???? would be cool to see the redding shoot in july or august but the 120 degree heat might prove problematic.LMAO


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

bigGP said:


> On that note in regards to cleaning rounds there are ALOT more people clean 1 or 2 down EVERY YEAR on field courses but the RECORD in redding with fewer arrows is still 5 down. makes you have to wonder which is truly harder or if Jesse's point of what time of year they occur contributes account outdoor rust is gone by nationals???? would be cool to see the redding shoot in july or august but the 120 degree heat might prove problematic.LMAO


Actually if they would hold it in Redding in July/August it would probably be damn near perfect, weather wise. Temps usually only get into the mid/high 80's and there is usually very little if any rain. 

I've been up in that area several times in mid summer for work and it always makes me want to move there.


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## andy1996 (Feb 15, 2004)

bclowman said:


> all of us shoot past 50 yards. none of us pull over 60 and none us shoot over 280 fps. ASA rules down here. and yes a twelve at 45 is much tougher than a big dot at 80.
> I'm with RSW on this one.



ASA is the exception to the rule no doubt about it--but we don't have the ASA here and the IBO is big in the northwest and the guys here shoot 350fps and 5 grains per pound and their max distance is 50 yards and most of them are overbowed.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

bigGP said:


> BIG dot??? LMAO Levi will pound a 12 at 45 aiming at thin air AND pound the X at 80 but a nfaa size dot at 80 is not a gimme and a 12 at 45 isnt either but i would take the 45 shot EVERY-TIME........................IF i knew the yardage. LOL
> 
> 
> either one of them kicks my rear. The one i can actually see just seems a little easier to me. a twelve at 45 with an ate area or another arrow to reference off of and i would take the 12 at 45 over the 80.


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## Triangle FS (Dec 28, 2009)

field14 said:


> This is a pretty good post, with one MAJOR flaw. What is this "Nfaa rounds have been cleaned"????
> 
> There are LESS than 10 "clean Field/Hunter rounds" in the HISTORY of the NFAA Outdoor Nationals (post 1976 target change/scoring era)!
> 
> ...


Field 14 
You need to check the scores from 2009 nationals. My son Lucas Kenley cub FS shot 560 hunter,559 field.


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## bluerocker (Dec 24, 2009)

I also have an idea, why don’t they have a three day shoot to determine who is the greatest compound archer in the world.. One day shoot a field round next day shoot indoor x’s,,and the third day shoot unmarked 3d,,and in the end we would know who is the greatest archer!! My money would be on Levi,,,


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

bluerocker said:


> I also have an idea, why don’t they have a three day shoot to determine who is the greatest compound archer in the world.. One day shoot a field round next day shoot indoor x’s,,and the third day shoot unmarked 3d,,and in the end we would know who is the greatest archer!! My money would be on Levi,,,


and the church said :amen:


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## mason1958 (Mar 15, 2008)

*Its all archery @ any level*

WOW WE ALL HAVE OUR GAME IN ARCHERY WE LOVE MORE THAN THE OTHER GUY OR GAL ,YOU JUST CANT SETTLE WHO IS BETTER @ ONE THAN THE OTHER. WHAT DAY,SHOOT ,YEAR OR ORGANIZATION COULD DECIDE THIS ,THE POINT IS THERE ALL GREAT SHOTS IN ANY GAME THEY PRACTICE AT.LEVI MORGAN IS A GREAT ARCHER & HAS MADE HIS MARK IN THIS SPORT FOR A LONG TIME TO COME WITH MANY MORE GREAT ARCHERS ALSO. LEVI HAS MADE A MARK ON MY SON MASON SMITH JUST A 14 YEAR OLD YOUTH SHOOTER THAT SHOOTS ASA,NFAA,ASA & BOWHUNTS. MASON PRACTICES VERY HARD TO SHOOT WHATEVER GAME IS COMING UP,BUT I WILL SAY ITS ALL TOUGH HE TELLS ME ON THOSE DAYS WHEN PRACTICING IS NOT GOING PERFECT.HIS MOM & I HAVE SHOT TOUNAMENTS OF ALL KINDS FOR 36 YEARS NOW & MASON HAS BEEN AT IT FOR 3-YEARS WE ENJOY IT ALL FOR THE SPORT OF ARCHERY ITS ALL GOOD LONG AS WE RESPECT & ENCOURAGE EACH OTHER TOP OR BOTTOM .IT MAKES ME PROUD WHEN MASON SHOOTS GREAT SCORES IN ANY GAME, BUT IT MAKES ME EVEN PROUDIER WHEN I SEE HIM TRYING TO HELP OTHERS OF ALL AGES SHOOT BETTER,:smile:ITS REAL:smilePICK @ SPOT,DOT,FOAM OR HAIR & AIM ITS ALL THE SAME:smile:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

bluerocker said:


> I also have an idea, why don’t they have a three day shoot to determine who is the greatest compound archer in the world.. One day shoot a field round next day shoot indoor x’s,,and the third day shoot unmarked 3d,,and in the end we would know who is the greatest archer!! My money would be on Levi,,,


Then, two weeks later, hold the same event with the same competitors over again, and get a different set of winners; most likely. Then, do it again a month later...and most likely get another set.

In addition, what you have picked as "events" alone...isn't enough...You got the FITA venue (round), The IFAA rounds, The American 900 round, The "Atlantic City Classic Round", Vegas indoor round, MARKED 3-D....If you are gonna do this, then you need to include 'em all. But, once again, just like any other sport..."on any given weekend/week" any one of a host of archers can win it all.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Levi just WON the IBO this weekend shooting the SAME rig as he did at redding. LMAO


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## dingus250x (Mar 16, 2008)

bclowman said:


> all of us shoot past 50 yards. none of us pull over 60 and none us shoot over 280 fps. ASA rules down here. and yes a twelve at 45 is much tougher than a big dot at 80.
> I'm with RSW on this one.


im gonna go ahead and tell ya ive never shot field and would love to try it but no where around here shoots it. but anyway when u said none of us pull over 60, what is that supposed to mean, is there some kind of new rule or something. Just wondering because i shoot 70+ alot of times in asa so i can shoot a aluminum arrow with alot of tip weight, and alot of people i shoot with do the same. I also attend alot of asa shoots, in fact i have only missed one so far this year, so if there is a new rule i guess i missed it.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

dingus250x said:


> im gonna go ahead and tell ya ive never shot field and would love to try it but no where around here shoots it. but anyway when u said none of us pull over 60, what is that supposed to mean, is there some kind of new rule or something. Just wondering because i shoot 70+ alot of times in asa so i can shoot a aluminum arrow with alot of tip weight, and alot of people i shoot with do the same. I also attend alot of asa shoots, in fact i have only missed one so far this year, so if there is a new rule i guess i missed it.


"US" was refering to the group of guys i shoot with. What I was stating is that the ASA shooters are not the like the IBO shooters for the most part in that they don't shoot high poundage & speed bows to get an extra edge. They are limited to 280fps so they are of no advantage unless you just like the feel of it or need it to reach 280 because of high arrow weight or short DL. You can shoot what ever Draw weight you like. The "rule" was refering to 280.


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## x-force hunter (Apr 10, 2009)

cenochs said:


> PS: Levi is the best 3D shooter in world right now and he could
> not even shoot even on a field known 3D course so as far as I can
> see the debate is over to which is more challenging !


Actually Chance is technically the best 3D shooter in the world because he won worlds last year.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

Leviticus said:


> Look guys, I love 3D... it's what i've done my whole life. Redding was my first experience at any sort of field coarse and i've gotta be honost it was awesome. It was kind of a mix between the two venues. I felt like i left a couple of points out there on the coarse but I also feel that its cleanable. As far as me making the top ten at a field event who knows, Jesse B is the man...but I may just show up one day and see if I can squeek out a decent finish. I don't think there's any way to really say which is harder (3D or Field) but I have yet to see a field shooter win a 3D. If its your set up thats holding you back then change it and put your money where your mouth is. If 3d is so easy then step up and all of this about luckin' in to twelves is crap. Yea maybe every once in a while but if youre tryin to win a tournament or shooter of the year off of luckin in to the middle then good luck. I guess it's easy to sit back in your computer chair at home and make statements about something from your point of view. If you think it's so easy then grow a pair and come shoot one. As a matter of fact bring a range finder. Until then... I had a great time in Redding and Lord willing I will be there next year. I shot with Jesse, Shane, Roger, Dwayne, Greg which are guys from just the spot world and I know that if any of these guys practiced 3d they would be great at it, and same goes for the top guys in 3d. It's just shooting your bow, if your good then your good. If your not then practice more or shut up. Bananna Pancakes @#$%^!!! P.S. Every body that was in my group at Redding I had a great time with you guys and gals Em! Oh yea a shout out to my buddy Darrin C. who had a bad first day and still got seventh. Levi Morgan


Shooting both diciplines well can be done. It takes quality practice on both venues.

I shoot AMBHFS in Field and SHC in IBO have 3 VA State 3D Championships, 1 in IBO, 2 In VBA. I also have 2 VA Field Archery Championships in the AMBHFS class. I had a field and 3d championship in the same year. For 3D I use a 4 pin AXCEL HD Pro, and a 5 Pin HD pro for field. Learning where to hold is the key in 3D or Field for fixed pin shooters. There is another Archer in VA(Jeremy Dean Winner of the Mid Atlantic sectional) that Currently has a 3D Championship, and he is shooting scores in Field that make him an easy Top 5 shooter in the Nation in the AMBHFS division. 
I have no doubt Levi would be a top shooter in the Field side because of his competitive nature in what ever he is doing. My Nephews Joey & Josh have told me some stories about playing Basketball with Levi in HS. Levi is a testimony to the fact, if you have the talent and the Drive, you can do well in what ever you are determined to do. 
That goes for everyone not just Levi or Jesse B.


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