# interesting broadhead tuning



## doulos (Apr 2, 2006)

After trying to get my fieldpoints and broadheads to group together in my Pure for about 3 weeks I could never get them any closer than 2-3 inches. The broadhead was always left of the fieldpoints. But broadheads grouped well any way so Ive been sighted in that way and have been hunting. I not only tried moving my rest and nock but also tried heavier heads and longer arrows to just see if this was a arrow acting too stiff. 
Well this morning i was shooting some ACC Prohunters I bought from Jerry at South Shore archery. His arrows are marked with a dot where the stiffest and most consistent spine is located. You are supposed to fletch your cock feather in line with that. I was using a QAD rest and had my cock feather straight up and still was getting broadheads left of fieldtips by 3 inches. No amount of rest movement corrected it. So i turned all my nocks so my cock feather was out like a finger shooter and the groups were astonishing. Shooting a broadhead first then a field tip I broke the nock on my broadhead arrow from 20 yards. To make sure I got another arrow and tried again. both arrows touching in the bullseye. Went back to 30 yards and broke another nock. I repeated it again from 30 yards with broadhead and fieldpoints touching. 
Ive never seen such a big change from turning a nock. But Jerry at South Shore has now made a believer out of me in the importance of arrow spine testing and the importance that the stiffest part of the arrow all be going in the same direction.

This was my set up
2012 Pure
28 inch draw
center shot 27/32
nock 1/16 above center
set at 60 lbs

arrow
ACC Prohunter
27.2 inches long
125 grain Magnus stinger 4 blade
4 inch Trueflight feathers with right helical

anyone else see something like this?


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

that's the spline of the arrows all going the same way, not spine. you can put your bare shafts in water to find which side floats and put a mark on the tops, orient all your arrows the same way (not sure it matters much which way the spline goes) and your groups will tighten, assuming you're a sure shot to begin with and aren't all over the place...lol


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

shec6135 said:


> that's the spline of the arrows all going the same way, not spine. you can put your bare shafts in water to find which side floats and put a mark on the tops, orient all your arrows the same way (not sure it matters much which way the spline goes) and your groups will tighten, assuming you're a sure shot to begin with and aren't all over the place...lol


Wow! Have I ever been misinformed! Valuable stuff here.

Good luck with that spline!


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## doulos (Apr 2, 2006)

OK, explain spline. Im ignorant


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

LMAO!!! Spline and spine are two different things and splines go on axles and have nothing to do with arrows, it's spine not spline, some people need to do some research and learn something lol

Ok sorry but still laughing lol at that one.....

Ok to the OP, I usually try and buy high end shafts such as your shooting because they will be more selected as far as weight and spine (NOT SPLINE) and in a dz arrows I find that you'll have one or two flyers and you can nock tune them to group with the rest of them, at least with carbons, I usually shoot aluminums for targets because of the more consistent spine (NOT SPLINE) lol


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Cool info. Good job and thanks for sharing. I have mine hitting together now but I don't mind doing simple little things to my setup if it will make me a better shooter.


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## doulos (Apr 2, 2006)

Nitroboy said:


> LMAO!!! Spline and spine are two different things and splines go on axles and have nothing to do with arrows, it's spine not spline, some people need to do some research and learn something lol
> 
> Ok sorry but still laughing lol at that one.....
> 
> Ok to the OP, I usually try and buy high end shafts such as your shooting because they will be more selected as far as weight and spine (NOT SPLINE) and in a dz arrows I find that you'll have one or two flyers and you can nock tune them to group with the rest of them, at least with carbons, I usually shoot aluminums for targets because of the more consistent spine (NOT SPLINE) lol


thanks
Jerry was telling me he sorts his arrows in groups and then he marks the shaft on the side of the arrow where the spine is closest to the manufacturers which is usually the stiffest side. He then told me to fletch with the cock vane in line with the mark. I did that. And the broadheads and fieldpoints definitely group better with the cock feather at 9 0'clock instead of 12.
As far as carbons go, Ive only been shooting them for about 5,or 6 years and always shot a middle of the road carbon like Beman ICS Hunters. I wanted to find something better and more consistent and was going to go back to aliminum but wanted to find something a bit more durable so I tried the ACCs and FMJ Eastons.


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

Nitroboy said:


> LMAO!!! Spline and spine are two different things and splines go on axles and have nothing to do with arrows, it's spine not spline, some people need to do some research and learn something lol
> 
> Ok sorry but still laughing lol at that one.....
> 
> Ok to the OP, I usually try and buy high end shafts such as your shooting because they will be more selected as far as weight and spine (NOT SPLINE) and in a dz arrows I find that you'll have one or two flyers and you can nock tune them to group with the rest of them, at least with carbons, I usually shoot aluminums for targets because of the more consistent spine (NOT SPLINE) lol


spine is the stiffness of an arrow explained here ---> http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_spine_chart_by_deflection.htm

spline is the stiff side of an arrow where the carbon overlaps itself a miniscule amount when the carbon sheets are rolled to make the arrows.

try floating some carbon shafts, mark the tops, let them dry, then do the test again. the light side always is on top meaning the spline (not spine) is actually submersed every time. that is the stiff side of your arrow, it won't ever change, and as long as you orient your fletchings all the same according to the spline side of your arrow you are taking out one more variable out of your shooting. you act like i'm making this stuff up nitroboy, or that i'm like the silly shop owner that interchanges spline and spine mixing them up...


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

doulos said:


> thanks
> Jerry was telling me he sorts his arrows in groups and then he marks the shaft on the side of the arrow where the spine is closest to the manufacturers which is usually the stiffest side. He then told me to fletch with the cock vane in line with the mark. I did that. And the broadheads and fieldpoints definitely group better with the cock feather at 9 0'clock instead of 12.
> As far as carbons go, Ive only been shooting them for about 5,or 6 years and always shot a middle of the road carbon like Beman ICS Hunters. I wanted to find something better and more consistent and was going to go back to aliminum but wanted to find something a bit more durable so I tried the ACCs and FMJ Eastons.


look up how carbon arrows are made, they are made by sheets of carbon that are rolled into tubes and then cut to size, the higher end carbon tubes are the ones cut out of the center, cheaper arrows are the exact same material from the exact same role just cut from the ends. the difference being a straightness tolerance of .001, .003, and .006. the .001 and the .006 only being about a thickness of a human hair differnce from eachother and that being spread out over a 31" arrow is miniscule. especially when you think the only way you can humanly possible tell a difference shooting on opposed to the other is with a hooter shooter... nitroboy talks like a man with a paper hat, but then again he does have a lot of posts maybe i am making all this stuff up...


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

nitroboy is a sponsor, that doesn't say anything of his intelligence. look up what i have said if you don't believe me


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## 2lunger (Nov 16, 2010)

shec6135 said:


> spine is the stiffness of an arrow explained here ---> http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_spine_chart_by_deflection.htm
> 
> spline is the stiff side of an arrow where the carbon overlaps itself a miniscule amount when the carbon sheets are rolled to make the arrows.
> 
> try floating some carbon shafts, mark the tops, let them dry, then do the test again. the light side always is on top meaning the spline (not spine) is actually submersed every time. that is the stiff side of your arrow, it won't ever change, and as long as you orient your fletchings all the same according to the spline side of your arrow you are taking out one more variable out of your shooting. you act like i'm making this stuff up nitroboy, or that i'm like the silly shop owner that interchanges spline and spine mixing them up...


Just my $.02, but I'm going to agree with Nitro on this. Spline should be used when referring to gears, not arrows. Shec6135, I think you would be better off calling the overlap the seam of the arrow because in all actuality, that is what it is. You know what you are talking about, I just think you are using the wrong word to identify it.


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

i think mark twain said it best when he said, " it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" .


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## 2lunger (Nov 16, 2010)

shec6135 said:


> i think mark twain said it best when he said, " it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" .


Really? You're going to jump on me? If you can't take constructive criticism from someone trying to help you out, then maybe you should take a break from the sight and look up the definition of spline.


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

2lunger said:


> Just my $.02, but I'm going to agree with Nitro on this. Spline should be used when referring to gears, not arrows. Shec6135, I think you would be better off calling the overlap the seam of the arrow because in all actuality, that is what it is. You know what you are talking about, I just think you are using the wrong word to identify it.


no i meant everything i said, and i'm not calling a duck a chicken because it suits someone else better.lol take from it what you want


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

it was meant for nitroboy.


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## 2lunger (Nov 16, 2010)

shec6135 said:


> it was meant for nitroboy.


Oh. OK, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the terminology on this one.:wink:


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

i think it came about because a gear has a bunch of notches or teeth well if you looked at the end of an arrow and could actually tell the difference there would be one tooth, or one notch, and that would be where the carbon overlaps itself and sticks out just a hair further than anywhere else around the circumference of the arrow... but i didn't just make this stuff up, nitro boy didn't even address what the OP was talking about when he was explaining what the guy at his pro shop was talking to him about, he just said he does the whole guess and check and turns the nocks hoping for the best (or actually hoping someone did exactly what i told the op to do with his arrows for him) so that there wouldn't be any flyers.... whether you call both what i'm talking about and actual spine, "spine" it makes no difference to me... nitro boy just offended me by acting like i had something to learn, when it went way over his head...


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

The word 'spline' has nothing to do with anything archery related. It's spine....

You seem to be misinformed with there being a spine, and spline. There isn't.


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

jmann28 said:


> The word 'spline' has nothing to do with anything archery related. It's spine....
> 
> You seem to be misinformed with there being a spine, and spline. There isn't.


so you're saying there isn't a stiffer side of an arrow (thicker side of an arrow) you can orient your vanes to to get your arrows to group more consistently or are you just changing the subject?


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

i don't care what you call it... call it whatever you like we can say it's X. eitherway i'm right and that's what the guy at the proshop was solving for was to get X and the cock vane in the same place on all of his arrows, or X 90 degrees from the cock vane on all his arrows to help him tune his arrows. you guys are arguing a mute point... and no i didn't say mute.:wink::darkbeer:


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## stiffwindpsr (Dec 22, 2004)

Sorry, can't resist. It's spine and moot, for the record.:wink:


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## shanedut (Sep 28, 2009)

What ever it is floating arrows does work and i have not had to turn nocks to get them all to fly true out of my bow.


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

Yeah it works, you're finding the backbone of the arrow. But it's not called the spline


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

jmann28 said:


> Yeah it works, you're finding the backbone of the arrow. But it's not called the spline


actually arrows don't have bones at all, let alone a back bone...


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## SouthShoreRat (Mar 4, 2007)

A few years ago Rick McKinney, owner of Carbontech did some testing. The focus of this testing was on arrow weight, straightness and spine.



> Rick Stated:
> 
> Spine is probably the most important part of the arrow shaft and the most ignored. I presume the main reason for this is because it is the hardest for a manufacturer to get right and keep consistent. Also, it is one that cannot be measured very easily by the average person. Let's determine what spine is and do not confuse it with spline! Spline is what the fishing industry uses in order to get sort of the "back bone" of the fishing rod.
> 
> ...


Over the last eight years we have tested in excess of 200,000 arrows shafts to identify the variances in the spine deflection within given groups of shafts. We have compiled a very large amount of data covering just about every arrow on the market. We have also networked with 1000s of customers to compile data of their results with respect to shafts that have been tested. Our conclusion is this, testing shafts to identify the variance in spine deflection and indexing the nock's so the deflection is as closely matched as possible does adds value and improves the consistency within most shafts. 

Whether you refer to this as back bone, static spine, spline, heavy side etc it doesn't much matter, it is just a difference in semantics. All carbon shafts have a measurable spine deflection which begins at a given low or weak point and ends at a give high or stiff point around the circumference of the shaft. 

Rick stated in the tutorial quoted above


> According to tests that I have been involved with, the tighter the spine tolerances the more accurate the arrows become.


Over the last 8 years we have found this statement to be very accurate. Spine matters, it shouldn't be too weak or too stiff and each shaft should match as closely as possible within the group. This is why we have tested in excess of 200,000 shafts and will continue to provide this service for our customers!


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

thanks southshorerat,

this is the most important couple paragraphs to answer the OP's question possible, no need to assert yourself better or smarter than anyone else if you understand already that you know what you're talking about... smart people don't degrade or laugh at others around them, they try to lift others up and make them feel better. 

nitrofanboy just had me heated and i lost my cool.


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## doulos (Apr 2, 2006)

SouthShoreRat is Jerry from South Shore Archery the fella I bought the arrows from. A very knowledgeable and informative archery stuff supplier. Also seems very meticulous about his arrow building. Great guy to do business with and good prices too!













1


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## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

Now the question is why don't arrow manufacturers label the spline(backbone) of their arrows. Would be a lot better than floating them about.


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## shec6135 (Jan 2, 2010)

Windrover said:


> Now the question is why don't arrow manufacturers label the spline(backbone) of their arrows. Would be a lot better than floating them about.


the average joe isn't that into archery (i would guess) to care...


and i repeat "i would guess" lol!


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

shec6135 said:


> the average joe isn't that into archery (i would guess) to care...
> 
> 
> and i repeat "i would guess" lol!


Well, people do refer to it as the backbone by the way, not spline

And some companies do. Victory marks theirs by placing the label on the stiff side of the arrow.


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## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

Actually like "shec1635", I have been familiar with "spline" as arrow backbone for some time. This isn't new. Terminology, indeed language is a slippery thing. For example when you refer to 'elk' you are referring to moose (alces), right? All of North America goes wrong on that one. In my area of Ontario when they say pickerel, they are referring to walleye. A rose by any other name...


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## SouthShoreRat (Mar 4, 2007)

jmann28 said:


> Well, people do refer to it as the backbone by the way, not spline
> 
> And some companies do. Victory marks theirs by placing the label on the stiff side of the arrow.


That is what they advertise!


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## gotmike (Oct 16, 2009)

in the industry which i work many things are called different names by different people... it's just one of those things... 



Windrover said:


> Actually like "shec1635", I have been familiar with "spline" as arrow backbone for some time. This isn't new. Terminology, indeed language is a slippery thing. For example when you refer to 'elk' you are referring to moose (alces), right? All of North America goes wrong on that one. In my area of Ontario when they say pickerel, they are referring to walleye. A rose by any other name...


and moose is alces alces, yes... but that's not elk... an elk (wapati or Cervus elaphus) is an elk... though we have digressed substantially from the OP's topic the current discussion is on whether the respondant used the wrong term... not the wrong name... as he stated it he's referring to spline in a circumferencial reference, and spine in a linear reference... so the spline relates to the roll, and the spine relates to the flex parallel to it's axis... and to any of you who have robin-hooded an arrow when the carbon splits there is definately a spline to the arrow... there is also a spine... so even if you call it something different the term and description he used is correct for what he said... it's his way of describing it... other people would describe it by a different term... but as far as archery goes it doesn't have a name... but the spine of the arrow is what it's named... it's not just a term... sadly... by the time i typed this all out it all seems pointless and i probably had ought to delete it... but it's too late now soooo...


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## tripleb2431 (Aug 25, 2009)

Wow talk about making a mountain out of mole hill holy cow guys calm down. I also have heard people call the stiffest line of arrow a spline its just a name for it like some people call a mountain lion a cougar some a puma. There's no bones in an arrow either so are you equally outraged when someone calls it a back bone? WOW!


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## jayson2984 (Oct 13, 2010)

He wasnt calling a spine a spline. He was calling a spine a spine and the opposite, a spline, a spline.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## giltyone (Nov 9, 2009)

shec6135 said:


> spine is the stiffness of an arrow explained here ---> http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_spine_chart_by_deflection.htm
> 
> spline is the stiff side of an arrow where the carbon overlaps itself a miniscule amount when the carbon sheets are rolled to make the arrows.
> 
> try floating some carbon shafts, mark the tops, let them dry, then do the test again. the light side always is on top meaning the spline (not spine) is actually submersed every time. that is the stiff side of your arrow, it won't ever change, and as long as you orient your fletchings all the same according to the spline side of your arrow you are taking out one more variable out of your shooting. you act like i'm making this stuff up nitroboy, or that i'm like the silly shop owner that interchanges spline and spine mixing them up...


Question: when floating the shafts? with tips and nocks (no fletching) or just the shaft itself? or can this be done both ways?


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## tripleb2431 (Aug 25, 2009)

Bare shaft no tips or insert or fletching just a nock in each end turned opposite each other one up and down one sideways


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