# Marengo Range Conditions



## WV Bowtech (Jun 20, 2003)

Can't believe that after 2 years and now the third year no one has gave any consideration to having water on the ranges. Ranges I and J didn't have any water stations until the end of J on Friday. At 3pm it was dry,just ice. There were several complaints and I saw water jugs heading out that way today. It's just a shame we have to complain before water gets put out. This was a problem last year also. Someone isn't making notes going forward. 
With July temperatures being so hot there should always be water stations. 

Now, let's talk treachery range conditions:
Ranges K and L we're not safe for Seniors!
Somebody isn't considering that 70 year olds are shooting this course and if it rained Friday even us plus 50 year olds would have major trouble. I realize the need to shuffling the ranges but the first year the MSR range was much better suited. 

The sunny field shots back into the woods is difficult but not unsafe. The terrain and lack of warer could get someone hurt or worse. 

Any thoughts?


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## Boonie_Hunter (Jan 14, 2005)

I have no idea what shoot this is, but if you know the conditions why not prepare yourself and bring your own water. It's July...it's hot...it ain't rocket surgery.


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## Bowtech n ROSS (Aug 30, 2007)

Abcd were great. Water every 10 targets. Couple targets were a little close together for my liking but it happens. Great job cardinal shooting center on abcd


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

Range L had situations that were so dangerous most insurance companies would have cancelled their coverage. After the shot at coyote up on the hill the person pulling the arrows would only need to slip slightly and he would have taken a serious fall to the bottom of a very steep ravine. Then you were forced to walk a very narrow 1 1/2 foot wide ridge where a slip would have resulted in a very nasty fall and probable injuries. This was followed by a shot at an alligator that required climbing down a very steep set of what can only be described a broken down set of wood slats with a flimsy rope being supported by a dangerous, rusty, jagged steel post. A slip could very easily impale a person on that sharp, steel post. It actually took two grown men to help a older shooter down this slope because he became stranded trying to get down it while carrying his bow and chair. It was insanely dangerous and extremely stupid to put shooters into such a precarious and risky situation. Thoughtless would be the correct term.
There were also cub shooters (under 12 years old) shooters that were forced to navigate this dangerous gauntlet.


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## 11nator (Aug 31, 2009)

Maybe you should take up knitting


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## ARCHERYXPERT (Jan 29, 2004)

Don't care about water but the staff was not even at the tent after we got done with the course!!! They sent us out and when we got back nobody and no ride to the parking lot!! What a joke. Somebody is suppose to walk those courses to make sure they are clear and targets are set for the next day. That didn't happen. I can see now why the IBO is shrinking and ASA is growing.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

11nator said:


> Maybe you should take up knitting


Your 13th post on ArcheryTalk and this is what you offer?

I take it you were on that course, correct? If you weren't then I think I would like to remind you that the purpose of AT is archers helping archers... Your response was far from helpful.


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## jmann28 (Nov 22, 2010)

It was insanely backed up yesterday on ABCD. We spent 45 mins a target at one point....


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I thought courses were great. I bring a chair for food and water. One of thr ibo officials was changing out cores and stopped and gave us bottled water and I saw many water coolers. Probably one of the best ibo shoots I've been to. Good job ibo


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## Outback Man (Nov 21, 2009)

ARCHERYXPERT said:


> Don't care about water but the staff was not even at the tent after we got done with the course!!! They sent us out and when we got back nobody and no ride to the parking lot!! What a joke. Somebody is suppose to walk those courses to make sure they are clear and targets are set for the next day. That didn't happen. I can see now why the IBO is shrinking and ASA is growing.


Ha...was that after course B Friday? If not same thing happened to us to. Leaving early fine...but don't tell the shuttle people tho course are clear so they leave.


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## Outback Man (Nov 21, 2009)

jmann28 said:


> It was insanely backed up yesterday on ABCD. We spent 45 mins a target at one point....


Yea I think we waited 1-2 hours to start C...and we were talking about the blistering 45 minute/shot pace we were on too.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

That's why ASA uses basically the same staff for each shoot. If you do have problems, Mike knows who to lay the wood on so it won't happen again.


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## paul anderson (Feb 26, 2008)

you people get on hear and ***** about the IBO and you all just keep going back. there's the regions shoot , stop going to the IBO and shoot the ASA and the Regions,,


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

These complaints is the reason I shoot ASA. Mike does great job with the shoot. The only problem he has is asa is growing bigger, and that is good thing.


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

paul anderson said:


> you people get on hear and ***** about the IBO and you all just keep going back. there's the regions shoot , stop going to the IBO and shoot the ASA and the Regions,,


Do you really believe Regions is a National event, plus the fact that when they moved the shoots into ASA country they left little choice for IBO shooters, Who wants to travel 10 hours to compete with two groups of 4 shooters in just about every class. My opinion is they screwed it up by moving the shoots south, had they stayed northeast and wend head to head on the same dates with the IBO maybe results would be different but that just my thoughts. At least that way they would know if the IBO shooters wanted a change. I personally liked the IBO style shooting better than ASA and with a few minor changes it could even be better. My only beef was I never thought I needed to walk a half mile between targets to be safe, I always thought quarter mile or 200 yards was enough. I also don't care for a 10 yard walk from stake to stake and sit and wait for the guys on either side of me to shoot before I could go pull and score arrows. I guess I wasn't a social shooter and would much rather walk and collect my thoughts myself befor targets..


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## smurphy (Feb 22, 2007)

We shot mnop. We had plenty of water. There were a few close sets but nothing that I felt like I would be In danger. Over all I thought it was a great shoot


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## dottrz (Jul 27, 2013)

Shot IJKL on Friday AM. First 20, IJ, started at 8:15 or so, finished at 10:30. SECOND 20, took until 2:00. Not sure the solution, I had a good time with some nice shooting companions. As far as the terrain, I do have to agree. It was a bit precarious in places, even for nibble folks like me...LOL..... I try and take the good with the bad, and overall, the good prevailed.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

GreggWNY said:


> Range L had situations that were so dangerous most insurance companies would have cancelled their coverage. After the shot at coyote up on the hill the person pulling the arrows would only need to slip slightly and he would have taken a serious fall to the bottom of a very steep ravine. Then you were forced to walk a very narrow 1 1/2 foot wide ridge where a slip would have resulted in a very nasty fall and probable injuries. This was followed by a shot at an alligator that required climbing down a very steep set of what can only be described a broken down set of wood slats with a flimsy rope being supported by a dangerous, rusty, jagged steel post. A slip could very easily impale a person on that sharp, steel post. It actually took two grown men to help a older shooter down this slope because he became stranded trying to get down it while carrying his bow and chair. It was insanely dangerous and extremely stupid to put shooters into such a precarious and risky situation. Thoughtless would be the correct term.
> There were also cub shooters (under 12 years old) shooters that were forced to navigate this dangerous gauntlet.


I shot the your course Gregg. I think take up knitting was a rather rude answer when you see guys over 70 shooting and very small children on this course. It was very dangerous in places. I am just getting over a bad hamstring pull and i found myself not liking crawling down them banks. If it would of rained,somebody would of got hurt. I had 2 waters with me but after setting out in a field in the hot hot sun for 8 shots and it taking for ever, that 2 bottles of water sure wasn't enough. Had little girls in front of us and big girls behind us, try taking a pee in that situation. we had to do some mountain climbing over the cliff to do that. I realize that we all had the same situation on I course but standing out in a field with the sun beating on you at noon and shooting back into dark holes was insane. It wasn't skill at shooting, it was just aiming at an area between top and bottom and hope for the best. I bet it didn't take long for other shooters to learn not to go to I range until it was overcast or the sun was to your back. Truely an advantage if u had buddies telling you that situation.


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## robinofthehood (Jun 14, 2010)

I shot K&L Friday at mid-day. I thought the mix of terrain and targets was a great combo. It was a nice walk in the shaded woods on established trails created by the nature facility. There was a bit of a hike between targets three quarters of the way thru. But that is OK as that is the price for having a nice mix of shots in OH farm land.:walk: I would take this type of format any day versus ASA style layout. I shot I & J Saturday mid-morning. I could see there was going to be plenty of open field shots into the shadows of the woods. J turned out to be quit challenging. The coyote and alligator shots were great. The wood planks with steps and rope could have been ugly had there been wet muddy conditions. Drinking water conditions could have been better. At the IJKL tent there should have been water jugs for shooters to fill up.:darkbeer: Thankfully the nice ladies at the food stand there had Gatorade and I filled up. I always fill my water bottle before starting a course in hot summer weather. If you rely solely on the hosts to provide water every five targets, you might be asking for a little too much. If they do, it's simply a bonus. Another added plus was the biting insects seemed to be non-existent. You IBO bashers can have your ASA style format.:bartstush: 
Thanks Bryan & Gene for organizing a great event, which looked to be well attended...:thumbs_up


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## dottrz (Jul 27, 2013)

draw29 said:


> I shot the your course Gregg. I think take up knitting was a rather rude answer when you see guys over 70 shooting and very small children on this course. It was very dangerous in places. I am just getting over a bad hamstring pull and i found myself not liking crawling down them banks. If it would of rained,somebody would of got hurt. I had 2 waters with me but after setting out in a field in the hot hot sun for 8 shots and it taking for ever, that 2 bottles of water sure wasn't enough. Had little girls in front of us and big girls behind us, try taking a pee in that situation. we had to do some mountain climbing over the cliff to do that. I realize that we all had the same situation on I course but standing out in a field with the sun beating on you at noon and shooting back into dark holes was insane. It wasn't skill at shooting, it was just aiming at an area between top and bottom and hope for the best. I bet it didn't take long for other shooters to learn not to go to I range until it was overcast or the sun was to your back. Truely an advantage if u had buddies telling you that situation.


Gary, sun to your back was not a good thing either. I shot in the first group out on Fri AM, on "I," and the sun to your back messed really bad with your verifier/clarifier, and one of the guys in our group couldn't use his scope lens due to glare. We tried umbrellas, but still tough. Hey, each segment has its' challenges, but I think the crux of this argument was the stuff on "K" and "L," the slippery slopes, loose shale in the creeks, roots tangling your feet, etc. I guess we all have to understand going in that things won't be "Country Club," so to speak, and be prepared for bumps like these.


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## 6rob4 (May 3, 2010)

stoz said:


> I thought courses were great. I bring a chair for food and water. One of thr ibo officials was changing out cores and stopped and gave us bottled water and I saw many water coolers. Probably one of the best ibo shoots I've been to. Good job ibo


I agree 100% great coarse. Best in a long time


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## rhyno_071 (Feb 22, 2009)

I shot MNOP on Friday and there was plenty of water and we saw three different officials walking around. There was plenty of food, drinks, and staff at the tent and a wagon ride back. No problems at all.


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## dawesy (Nov 11, 2005)

We shot IJKL Friday and Saturday. Our groups collective opinion was the courses were very nice creative with a really nice mix of shots. I do agree the narrow walkway after the coyote was risky especially for seniors but overall some of the best courses ive shot at an ibo event.


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## mocheese (Dec 19, 2003)

Other than the backup we had on C course I thought the shoot went pretty well. I always take drinks with me and anyone that has shot an IBO shoot knows this is something you need to do. There was ice cold water on our course though. Overall I say it was a good shoot.


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## frsd44 (Sep 3, 2004)

Boonie_Hunter said:


> I have no idea what shoot this is, but if you know the conditions why not prepare yourself and bring your own water. It's July...it's hot...it ain't rocket surgery.


You are correct you have no idea what shoot this was, and as far as being prepared and bringing your own water. 99.9% of the people who were shooting this National Shoot did and usually do bring their own water on the course. However, when you are on the courses for between 3 to 4 hours in the hot July sun you will at some point in time need to refill your water bottles. My dad shot IJKL over this past weekend and he agrees that there was an inadequate amount of water on the course. The IBO is really fortunate that there were not any cases of heat stroke or exhaustion on those courses.


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

I shot IJKL on Friday and Saturday. I had no trouble refilling my water bottles on the courses. The only problem I seen was the closeness of the targets on course J beginning with the wolverine.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

Define closeness please. I didn't shoot that course but I am curious.


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

There was 3 or 4 targets that did not have enough distance between each making it hard for the shooters waiting to shoot the next target to keep out of each other's way.


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## WV Bowtech (Jun 20, 2003)

Please understand I went prepared with water but.....most ranges have water to refill our bottles back up with. I do think they had water out on Saturday but people shoot Friday's too. 

I can live without the water. I'm fat so I can afford to loose a few pounds by dehydration!!

But the terrain was treacherous. Saw a lady being helped up one of the slick spots on L and she still fell on her stool and quiver. 

Great target set!!! The closeness was a probably the 9 yard shot. I never have seen one that close on an IBO Range. Usually a novelty shot after competition.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

hoytxcutter said:


> There was 3 or 4 targets that did not have enough distance between each making it hard for the shooters waiting to shoot the next target to keep out of each other's way.


Ok that is what I was wondering. I set the Spring National and my ranges were pretty tight. I tried to use an ASA/IBO hybrid style range. I wanted to keep you shooting instead of walking but safety is number 1.


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## WV Bowtech (Jun 20, 2003)

Pipestem was awesome!!
Targets were set tough and you took the ground away which made judging yardage a hoot. But.....you kept the walking safe and you thought ahead for rain making it slippery. 
All courses should be safe but Seniors should the safest and easiest to walk. On Friday a guy started K and quit after 2 targets. Just too tough for him.


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## bowhunter247365 (Apr 21, 2010)

ARCHERYXPERT said:


> Don't care about water but the staff was not even at the tent after we got done with the course!!! They sent us out and when we got back nobody and no ride to the parking lot!! What a joke. Somebody is suppose to walk those courses to make sure they are clear and targets are set for the next day. That didn't happen. I can see now why the IBO is shrinking and ASA is growing.


Was this on Friday. If so I was at the tent when they left. On ranges a-d


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## USSA (Jul 15, 2014)

There was water on Friday but only 3 places when it needs to be 5 places likE SAturday


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

outbackarcher said:


> Define closeness please. I didn't shoot that course but I am curious.


7 or 8 yards...


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## tank69kma (May 1, 2013)

MNOP was an amazing and very challenging range. There were some major downhill shots, but we sent the teenagers to retrieve those arrows and yell out the scores!  As for water on the course, I don't count on that. In my seat I carry two water bottles and some granola bars. After 30 targets Saturday, I felt good enough to finish out my 40. I went out on the course with the wife on Sunday, she had to shoot 20 to finish. Their range, IJKL I believe, was pretty backed up Saturday. We finished 10 with one group and the range officials were kind enough to have some leniency on us and sent us out for the last 10 even though we were a little over the cut off time. We breezed through it and thanked them, they were great..in fact, my range officials on MNOP were great also.

Going into one of these shoots, you need prepare yourself. I don't rely on the range officials or IBO to provide me the basics. There were food and beverage tents at both ranges I attended, they had water, gatorade and pop. If this is your first shoot, now you know what to prepare for. My first shoot, I asked a ton of questions, over prepared and was satisfied with what I brought. The more you know!


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