# limbsavers



## weekendhack (Jan 9, 2009)

limbsavers ,those little rubbery round or square blocks , are they any good ? do they really work on recurve limbs ? feel free to discuss your point of view.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

what do you want them to do?
Our view is that any subtle change in techneque will be evident in slight vibrations in the bow. As you weaver off your best form and setup equilibrium.
and your bow is all gummed up with vibration dampening (and the arrow has left the bow, by this point) would you be able to tell if your form is shifting? We think that the feedback from the bow would be masked. if they achived anything.

they have enough mass to give vibration reduction on the limbs, if placed at the string groove area as originally intended.
If they are placed on the riser/fadeout then the slight mass of the rubber vs the sum of the bow would prove little use 280grains of rubber vs 3-4kg. Like a butterfly trying to stop a base ball bat.
But if placed near the string groove of the limb, then the bow will slow down.
If you were to slow your bow down with heavy arrows to the sum of that of the limbs savers you would probably find your bow quieter (ie less vibrations that cause noise), and have more momentum in your arrow to help with down range velocities.

This is our view and im sure there are other people have there own too. we lump limb savers in with the 80/20 rule


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

in my case i have always used limbsavers on all my limbs(riser/fadeout area) and believe they really quiet down/dampen the bow...

i gave a spare set to one of our national archers and there was a discernable difference before and after he placed them on his samick extremes...he continues to use them.

when i got my borders i immediately also put them on the limbs so i have never shot my borders without the limbsavers...

at this point i do not want to take them out anymore for fear of marring the finish.....but that's just me...


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## wildjim (Jan 27, 2010)

It seems to me if limb savers were necessary it would be built in the initial limb design.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

it's an after market accessory....some like it and feel it improves their feel/performance and others do not....

.....to each his own...


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## K31Scout (Sep 17, 2003)

weekendhack said:


> are they any good ? do they really work on recurve limbs ?


Yes and yes. Do you *need* them on a target bow? No.

My hunting bow is very noticeably quieter with Limbsavers at the fade outs and that makes me more confident shooting at live animals.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Borderbows said:


> what do you want them to do?
> Our view is that any subtle change in techneque will be evident in slight vibrations in the bow. As you weaver off your best form and setup equilibrium.
> and your bow is all gummed up with vibration dampening (and the arrow has left the bow, by this point) would you be able to tell if your form is shifting? We think that the feedback from the bow would be masked. if they achived anything.
> 
> ...


This post seems uncharacteristically speculative of you rather than empirical. What test data do you have to support your contentions?


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## gig'em 99 (Feb 1, 2008)

There's no question, in my mind, that placing limbsavers on the limb, near the fade out, reduces noise and vibration. Adding mass anywhere on the limb would obviously slow the limb down as well. Where the mass is, will also impact how much slower they make the limb.

I've shot bows with and without limbsavers for years. Currently, I'm shooting Border Hex5s, and at their recommendation, I'm not attaching limbsavers to the limbs. My 520 grain indoor arrows sound very quiet. My 300 grain X10s are noticeably louder. I don't need dB meter to hear the difference. Nor does anyone else. It's quite obvious.

I'm giving the idea of "feeling the variations" a serious test now. My previous bow, complete with doinker a-bombs and limbsavers was super quiet, and super dead in the hands. My current bow, with no rubber on the stabilizers at all nor on the limbs certainly offers more feedback. My question is whether or not I need to feel the bow vibrate differently, as I can always see the result of a form variation/error. I will say that, before with a heavily dampened bow, there would be occasions that I really didn't know what I did to cause the shot to go off target. 

The question is will I be able to learn what the different shot reactions feel like, based on bow vibration?? Don't know yet. But certainly an archer can feel the difference with and without all of the vibration reductions systems.


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

For a recurve bow they have their place. In a package on a hook in the bow store.
Put an S-Coil in the back side upper and lower stab bushings and compare the difference. They weigh next to nothing and I'd be willing to bet that you will need to fabricate a compression washer to keep them tight.


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## ScarletArrows (May 25, 2007)

I have used them on my current set of limbs and the noise is drastically reduced over the last set whether or not that is because the limb is better or because of the limbsaver I dunno. In fact not many recurve shooters I know don't use them. Placement is always a debate...but to each their own. I like my directly above limb pocket on "face" of the bow ( the side towards you when at full draw).

Won't "save" your limb from anything but noise...and who wants to have a loud bow?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> For a recurve bow they have their place. In a package on a hook in the bow store.


Sorry to disagree with you Greg, but I have limbsavers on every single bow I own. They work that well.

John.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> Sorry to disagree with you Greg, but I have limbsavers on every single bow I own. They work that well.
> 
> John.


I, along with Jim Botts, were the first two people to have them on our recurves at Nationals over a decade ago. I was at the biggest archery shop in SW ohio when the sims guy came and the guy who ran the archery department convinced the rep to give me a couple sets so I slapped them on my two sky conquests. we all were playing around with the location-starting up by the tips and then settling on the fade outs. I put them on every set of limbs I have which means I have bought hundreds of dollars worth. I watched two joad kids dry fire cheap samick limbs-the ones with limbsavers were fine, the other one blew the tip off


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## IndyJim (Jul 25, 2009)

Would limbsavers benefit something like a Hoyt Nexus, which already has a rubber slug in the riser? I imagine it probably does some good, being directly on the limb and all.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

I use them on all my recurves...they are especially helpful on barebows. And, really help preserve older collector recurves from the 60's.

Art


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

i i was shoting my recurve with my limb saver and string leeches and decided i wanted to see if they made a difference. removed them all and it had a really noticable shock adn twing. put the string leeches back i nand it was gone.

limb savers= didnt work much if any. on both my recurve and alien x

string leeches= really made my recurve feel better at shot


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Warbow said:


> This post seems uncharacteristically speculative of you rather than empirical. What test data do you have to support your contentions?


we tried them, on our bows here when they first came out.
We were then sent a box full, by Limbs savers after we decided we found they did nothing but impede the bows performance when placed near the string grooves (1" from the string, on the belly side)

We then tried adding them to various parts of the bow, mainly on heavy hunting bows, and found that there was nothing that couldnt be tuned out of the bow in the first place.

As i always try to say, we all have our own findings, and we are all here to debate things. Judging by the responces here, people have found more to limb savers than we could.

The thing that breaks limbs comes from Faults in materials, faults in manufacturing, over stressed by user error, twisted by user setup or use, or too light an arrow.
I dont see how anyone can make an observation that limb savers have ever saved a set of limbs in this case.

IndyJim. Take that rubber plug out your riser and see if you can feel the difference... i know a couple of people who could tell the difference and a couple that couldn't, as good as a placebo in our books.

ArtV: Can you explain how they are usefull on a barebow more than target?

String leeches, they can add to string follow though, slow the bow down and dampen the strings vibration. Yes, i can see them creating a difference, the mass of the leech would have an effect on the mass of the occilating string.
Our view is you can use soft serving made into a fluff ball (cut to the size wanted), and still achive the same kind of effect too.


you would also find having a equal tension on all strands string makes a different noise than a lesser quality string. but this would have much less effect on bow performance.

A bigger bang of your buck is understanding the interactions brace height has on bow performance, Noise, tune, speed, and tiller, (aka Balance)


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

Greg Bouras said:


> For a recurve bow they have their place. In a package on a hook in the bow store.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

Greg Bouras said:


> For a recurve bow they have their place. In a package on a hook in the bow store.


I could not agree more. useless rubbish.


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## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

I have never tried them and it appears opinion is certainly split. As to them reducing performance, if that is so (and it would seem to make sense, adding a bit of mass to limbs should slow them _slightly_) then perhaps they could be useful when your arrows are ever so slightly weak and youve adjusted the bow/arrows/string etc to the limits. With the added benefit that they could abosrb a few vibrations.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Acehero said:


> I have never tried them and it appears opinion is certainly split. As to them reducing performance, if that is so (and it would seem to make sense, adding a bit of mass to limbs should slow them _slightly_) then perhaps they could be useful when your arrows are ever so slightly weak and youve adjusted the bow/arrows/string etc to the limits. With the added benefit that they could abosrb a few vibrations.


add/reduce your strand count/serving size to accomodate for slight arrow tune issues.

we have watched a couple of barebow archers starting with a 20strand count then tune the arrow to "about right" then cut strands out till the bow tuned. Once tuned then a strand count done, and a propper string made with the right strand setup. Remember you will need to ass the right number of strands in the centre serving to boost the serving up to a happy nock fit, and happy string/tab interaction.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> we found they did nothing but impede the bows performance when placed near the string grooves (1" from the string, on the belly side)


For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would place limbsavers near the string grooves at the ends of a limb. To me, that demonstrates a total lack of understanding of tuning and limb performance.

John.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would place limbsavers near the string grooves at the ends of a limb. To me, that demonstrates a total lack of understanding of tuning and limb performance.
> 
> John.


I always wondered about that myself......I use the Limbsavers on my limbs, just above the ends of the fadeouts....They do help absorb after-shot vibrations, and do make the bow a bit quieter....In Chronograph testing, I havent noticed any loss of arrow speed, since the weight of the Limbsaver is on a non-working part of the limb, or at least on a part of the limb that doesnt work much??....I think that putting the Limbsavers about mid-limb would probably account for a little loss of arrow speed, but would probably be the best placement for really cutting down on limb vibrations, without losing as much arrow speed as mounting the Limbsavers farther out on the limbs....I've never shot a set of Border limbs, maybe the Border limbs dont need, or wouldn't benefit much from a set of Limbsavers, but the Hoyt, Win&Win, PSE/Sky, and Samick limbs that I have owned settled down a bit after installing the Limbsavers on them.....Take care......Harperman


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

I've used them for a number of years and I like them. they do work.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would place limbsavers near the string grooves at the ends of a limb. To me, that demonstrates a total lack of understanding of tuning and limb performance.
> 
> John.


Oh, I don't know, there are some expert shooters who do use them that way...










Sometimes it is really hard to know what to think, especially when experts disagree, even experts who's opinion and experience I respect. It leads me want to think my opinion is as good as theirs, but I also know my opinion on limbsavers is just that and subject to cognitive biases. So I often ask if there is any scientific test data to back up people's subjective impressions, and to see who, if anybody, is objectively right. And sometimes two different opinions can both right, sometimes, not.

Anyway, I think this sort of thing is fairly typical in archery, especially in "traditional" archery, and perhaps less so in FITA Recurve. This is yet another example of where it is hard to separate lore from fact, subjective opinion from physics, marketing claims from reality and placebo from efficacious product. I've got limbsavers on my bow. I think they help. But I also know that without systematic double blind testing and/or objective sensor/video testing I don't know that for a fact.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would place limbsavers near the string grooves at the ends of a limb. To me, that demonstrates a total lack of understanding of tuning and limb performance.
> 
> John.


John, I'll Send you one of the dozen packs we have here. It advises you to install them 1" from the string (ie, up near the the string grooves). Thats the official line on the pack. Thats the loction where the vibration analysis was done id assume. The quotes are 65% reduction in vibrations and 12db reduction in noise or something like that. (im sat at home and they are at work)
I could agree with that, but also a reduction in bow performance. If you added a heavier arrow you could also get a 12db reduction in noise id assume.

If i were to use them, id put them on the riser or fadeouts. least bow performance lost that way.


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## Jonny Boy (Mar 7, 2010)

I use them, they work great by the way! Have tried shooting my bow w/o them and noticed a big difference. I also use their super string leeches!:darkbeer:


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Borderbows said:


> John, I'll Send you one of the dozen packs we have here. It advises you to install them 1" from the string (ie, up near the the string grooves). Thats the official line on the pack. Thats the loction where the vibration analysis was done id assume. The quotes are 65% reduction in vibrations and 12db reduction in noise or something like that. (im sat at home and they are at work)
> I could agree with that, but also a reduction in bow performance. If you added a heavier arrow you could also get a 12db reduction in noise id assume.
> 
> If i were to use them, id put them on the riser or fadeouts. least bow performance lost that way.


Sid, maybe there was something misconstrued with You directions for mounting them??.....The Limbsavers are mounted up near the cut out fork in the limb, on a Compound bow...I had them in that location on my Martin Scepters, and on my Mathews Conquest, and Conquest Apex bows....A Limbsaver on the outer 1/3 of a recurve limb sure would suck the performance out of a limb.....Take care....Harperman


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Borderbows said:


> If i were to use them, id put them on the riser or fadeouts. least bow performance lost that way.


Reminds me of an old joke: It is dark. A man sees someone searching the pavement near a streetlight for something. He asks,
"What are you doing?"
"I'm looking for my keys."
"Where did you loose them?" 
"Over there" (Pointing to a dark area dozens of feet away.)
"Er, then why are you looking over here?"
"The light's better."


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Harperman said:


> Sid, maybe there was something misconstrued with You directions for mounting them??.....The Limbsavers are mounted up near the cut out fork in the limb, on a Compound bow...I had them in that location on my Martin Scepters, and on my Mathews Conquest, and Conquest Apex bows....A Limbsaver on the outer 1/3 of a recurve limb sure would suck the performance out of a limb.....Take care....Harperman


No, in terms of manufacturer's recommended placement, BorderBows has the right of it--and the potential hit on limb performance is one of the reasons he doesn't recommend Limbsavers.



> Directions for Youth/Recurve LimbSaver® - For best results, apply at room temperature
> 
> Installation Instructions - Recurve Bow
> 1. String recurve bow.
> ...


From the instructions as cited by clickerati at

http://www.archery-interchange.net/forum/recurve-bow-discussion-q/10750-limb-saver-placement.html


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## wildjim (Jan 27, 2010)

Being new and reading everything I can my practical gut instinct tells me that limb designers and manufacturers would have discovered the miracle of pieces of rubber stuck to limbs long ago and attached, integrated them into the limb design.

Limbsavers seem a gimmick to me.

I am surprised that they are not marketed like The Extreme Sky Limbsaver in Blue or Super Master Limbsaver in Silver to make any limb vibrate at the same frequency of known superior limbs! Lots of possibilities to influence the mystical mind. . .


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Frank, for what you do there is no downside to putting the limbsavers at the string grooves. 

However, if you chose to shoot a competitive fita round, you would eventually choose another location for your limbsavers, I think...

John.



Warbow said:


> Oh, I don't know, there are some expert shooters who do use them that way...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LoveMyHoyt (Nov 29, 2008)

I no longer have the directions for my limbsavers, but IIRC, it said not to put them any CLOSER than one inch to the string. I have mine down about 5 inches from the end of the riser. About the same distance on both limbs. I don't know if it actually performs any better - I'm not a good enough shooter to tell :wink: but it does make my bow much more quiet. I hate noise :archer:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I'm sorry folks, but if you knew this guy like I do, you'd just put your limbsavers exactly where he does and not even worry about it anymore...

There are some folks that I call "Archery-Smart". Vic is one of them. Butch is another. Everything they do, they do for a VERY good reason. One would do well to follow their example and not ask too many questions...

John


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## wildjim (Jan 27, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> I'm sorry folks, but if you knew this guy like I do, you'd just put your limbsavers exactly where he does and not even worry about it anymore...
> 
> There are some folks that I call "Archery-Smart". Vic is one of them. Butch is another. Everything they do, they do for a VERY good reason. One would do well to follow their example and not ask too many questions...
> 
> John


People are gifted by God in many ways but not all ways?

What are Butch and Vic's last names so I may read about them?

John you are a gifted archer and seem practical I am surprised that you support the limbsaver rubber stick on.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Wildjim, 

I support things that work. Limbsavers work.

And few could ever hope to be as gifted as Vic or Butch. Very few.

John.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

wildjim said:


> Being new and reading everything I can my practical gut instinct tells me that limb designers and manufacturers would have discovered the miracle of pieces of rubber stuck to limbs long ago and attached, integrated them into the limb design.
> 
> Limbsavers seem a gimmick to me.
> 
> I am surprised that they are not marketed like The Extreme Sky Limbsaver in Blue or Super Master Limbsaver in Silver to make any limb vibrate at the same frequency of known superior limbs! Lots of possibilities to influence the mystical mind. . .


.....Well, maybe Your Practical Gut needs a check up?..L.O.L....Limbsavers DO work, these rubber "Gimmicks" take away excess vibrations, and make a bow shoot sweeter, and quieter....Some folks shoot heavier arrows than other folks, so the heavy arrow shooters wont notice the difference as much..Unless I'm shooting a hunting arrow, I rarely shoot anywhere close to a heavy arrow per bow pound....Limbsavers wont eliminate every bit of vibration, or every bit of noise, but they do flat out, plainly and simply .. WORK.....There are alot of gimmicks in Archery, I'll agree, but for the price, and for how much they help out, I'll put Limbsavers on every bow that I own.....Harperman P.S....The Limbsavers "String Leeches" are junk...They are very effective at quieting a bow string, but are way heavy, and dont last but a couple hundred arrows...


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## wildjim (Jan 27, 2010)

I've watched the 2004 olympic archery dvd over and over and noticed how quiet some bow were. Except Yamamoto's Yamaha bow which sounded like a washtub bass : ) yet he won the silver medal!

I'll have to watch again and look for limbsavers ; )

I remember Chuck Yeager's quote "Its the man not the machine"


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

wildjim said:


> I've watched the 2004 olympic archery dvd over and over and noticed how quiet some bow were. Except Yamamoto's Yamaha bow which sounded like a washtub bass : ) yet he won the silver medal!
> 
> I'll have to watch again and look for limbsavers ; )
> 
> I remember Chuck Yeager's quote "Its the man not the machine"


.....O.K??.........What does that have to do with whether or not Limbsavers make a bow shoot quieter, or have less vibration after the shot??....I dont recall anyone implying that Limbsavers made a bow more accurate, or more shootable....If You dont like Limbsavers, or dont believe that they work, so be it.....But, there are many on here, that use them, and KNOW that they work ....For not having used the product, You sure seem convinced that they dont work...I'm O.K. with folks that dont use Limbsavers, I dont really get that some folks have a problem with those of us that do???...Whatever, dude!..........Take care......Harperman


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## wildjim (Jan 27, 2010)

Harperman said:


> .....O.K??.........What does that have to do with whether or not Limbsavers make a bow shoot quieter, or have less vibration after the shot??....I dont recall anyone implying that Limbsavers made a bow more accurate, or more shootable....If You dont like Limbsavers, or dont believe that they work, so be it.....But, there are many on here, that use them, and KNOW that they work ....For not having used the product, You sure seem convinced that they dont work...I'm O.K. with folks that dont use Limbsavers, I dont really get that some folks have a problem with those of us that do???...Whatever, dude!..........Take care......Harperman


Dang Please don't get your mystical panties bunched ; )

I am just stating my observations : )


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## tigersdad (Jun 13, 2009)

*Limbsavers - Vic and Butch*

that would be Vic Wunderle and Butch Johnson - look up their Olympic, National and World records.........as has been stated, when better shooters than we are use them, maybe, just maybe, they know something...Vic Wunderle won the World Indoor Championship in Poland in 2009...........just one his victories....


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

wildjim said:


> Being new and reading everything I can my practical gut instinct tells me that limb designers and manufacturers would have discovered the miracle of pieces of rubber stuck to limbs long ago and attached, integrated them into the limb design.
> 
> Limbsavers seem a gimmick to me.
> 
> I am surprised that they are not marketed like The Extreme Sky Limbsaver in Blue or Super Master Limbsaver in Silver to make any limb vibrate at the same frequency of known superior limbs! Lots of possibilities to influence the mystical mind. . .


I don't think that LimbSavers are in the same league as Tice clocks, green Sharpies and CD "demagnetizers." (Nor do I think that the Fusion FX is the Pear Cable of bows...). I don't think the effects of LimbSavers are below the threshold of detection the way audiophile hooey is. I think the question is how well they work at various placements and what the trade offs are--and, of course, how much placebo value is mixed in with that.



limbwalker said:


> There are some folks that I call "Archery-Smart". Vic is one of them. Butch is another. Everything they do, they do for a VERY good reason. One would do well to follow their example and not ask too many questions...
> 
> John


Well, I'll meet you half way. I do have LimbSavers on my bow because fine archers like Vic, Butch and you do. But I also ask questions. Sometimes common wisdom turns out not to be true after all. If we make some things off limits to questioning we can never hope to learn our mistakes and misunderstandings. That's why I'm curious what hard data is out there on LimbSavers.

(I wonder why Frank hasn't posted in this thread. I know he now posts to the FITA Forum to share his positive experiences with good equipment and he is a big LimbSavers fan. One would think he'd be all over this thread.  )


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## wildjim (Jan 27, 2010)

tigersdad said:


> that would be Vic Wunderle and Butch Johnson - look up their Olympic, National and World records.........as has been stated, when better shooters than we are use them, maybe, just maybe, they know something...Vic Wunderle won the World Indoor Championship in Poland in 2009...........just one his victories....


Thank You I figured it out ; ) Respectable archers!

But I am not convinced a rubber sticky is that useful on bow limbs as it must have equal negative effect on limb speed or maybe mask another problem.

Sid with Border seems analytical and I believe he'd use them in his design if it were necessary.

I may even consider Border limbs in the future ; )


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

I just skimmed though this thread....

those who read the packaging and it says 1" from the string.......... that is for compound, not for recurve...

Where do I put my Limbsavers on my bow?

I put them where the 'swedge' ends on the limb, exactly where VIC has them on his bow in the picture before this post. the limb BARELY bends here if at all, and is the furthest point out where it doesnt bend, so it does not slow the bow down. The further out you put them the more vibration it takes out, and visa versa. 

I use them because it makes my bow feel better, quieter and makes my limbs last longer. When we were testing some limbs, we had an issue with durability, my limbs lasted 3X longer then anyone elses in the program..... thats what sold me to use them on each and every set of limbs I have, since then I never have shot a single arrow out of my bow without them.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jake Kaminski said:


> I just skimmed though this thread....
> 
> those who read the packaging and it says 1" from the string.......... that is for compound, not for recurve...


By just "skimming" thread you missed this:



> *Installation Instructions - Recurve Bow*
> 1. String *recurve bow.*
> 
> 2. Before removing adhesive backing, locate area on limb for mounting Recurve LimbSaver® no closer than 1 inch from string. You only get one stick! If you de-string your bow by sliding the string down the limb, place LimbSaver® just below where your string stops down the limb. Thoroughly clean selected area with denatured alcohol, wipe and allow to dry for at least 5 minutes.
> ...





Jake Kaminski said:


> When we were testing some limbs, we had an issue with durability, my limbs lasted 3X longer then anyone elses in the program..... thats what sold me to use them on each and every set of limbs I have, since then I never have shot a single arrow out of my bow without them.


That would be a great test for an engineering student, test limbs to destruction with and without LimbSavers. But you'd need to use a machine to do it and more than just two sets of limbs to have a good enough data set.


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

Maybe the duplicated the directions and just switched 'recurve' for 'compound'?



It wasn't two sets of limbs, it was 11 sets of limbs. Only one other person used Limbsavers, their limbs lasted 2.5X longer then the others as well.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jake Kaminski said:


> It wasn't two sets of limbs, it was 11 sets of limbs. Only one other person used Limbsavers, their limbs lasted 2.5X longer then the others as well.


I meant that for a scientific experiment you'd need to test more than two sets of limbs. Your anecdote is sufficient to justify an experiment but it isn't dispositive in and of itself. There could be many variables in your limbs, your bow set up, your arrow weight, your shooting style, your string that could have contributed to the difference. And it is even possible that it is just a coincidence, a bit of statistical clustering. That is why a confirming experiment would be a fine idea, an experiment where the only variable is the LimbSavers.



Jake Kaminski said:


> Maybe the duplicated the directions and just switched 'recurve' for 'compound'?


You are a little quick on the draw today. If you read the instructions carefully you'll see that they say to put the LimbSavers within 1 inch of the string, or a little farther if you need some more limb to slid your string down when you unstring your bow. That very specific to **Recurves** and recurves only:



> Installation Instructions - Recurve Bow
> 1. String recurve bow.
> 
> 2. Before removing adhesive backing, locate area on limb for mounting Recurve LimbSaver® no closer than 1 inch from string. You only get one stick! I*f you de-string your bow by sliding the string down the limb, place LimbSaver® just below where your string stops down the limb.* Thoroughly clean selected area with denatured alcohol, wipe and allow to dry for at least 5 minutes.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

*Elbow savers*



wildjim said:


> Thank You I figured it out ; ) Respectable archers!
> 
> But I am not convinced a rubber sticky is that useful on bow limbs as it must have equal negative effect on limb speed or maybe mask another problem.
> 
> ...


Speaking for recurve, when placed near the fade out where there is only negligible movement to begin with, ie, if no mass is moved during the release = no energy loss. However, after the shot they absorb vibration and shock before it reaches the riser and cured my elbow pain almost immediately. 

Limbsavers...AKA Elbow-savers.


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## dhouse (Feb 3, 2010)

Warbow said:


> You are a little quick on the draw today. If you read the instructions carefully you'll see that they say to put the LimbSavers within 1 inch of the string


Actually, it say *no closer* than 1 inch from string. It's a very important distinction, which you might garner from reading the instructions carefully. :wink:


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

dhouse said:


> Actually, it say *no closer* than 1 inch from string. It's a very important distinction, which you might garner from reading the instructions carefully.


Yes. I did read that, and if you read on you'd read this for bows that will be unstrung at some point, which is pretty much all FITA Recurves:



> *If you de-string your bow by sliding the string down the limb, place LimbSaver® just below where your string stops down the limb. *


It doesn't say "anywhere below" but "**just** below"--that is, as close to the unstrung loop end as you can get it without interfering with unstringing the bow, but no closer than 1 inch from the tensioned string. It is clear if you read the instructions carefully and completely that the intention of the instructions is for the LimbSavers to be placed at the working ends of the limb. This is confirmed by Sid, who notes that is where the anti-vibration test data comes from. So your snark is ironically misplaced.


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

Warbow said:


> I meant that for a scientific experiment you'd need to test more than two sets of limbs. Your anecdote is sufficient to justify an experiment but it isn't dispositive in and of itself. There could be many variables in your limbs, your bow set up, your arrow weight, your shooting style, your string that could have contributed to the difference. And it is even possible that it is just a coincidence, a bit of statistical clustering. That is why a confirming experiment would be a fine idea, an experiment where the only variable is the LimbSavers.
> 
> 
> 
> You are a little quick on the draw today. If you read the instructions carefully you'll see that they say to put the LimbSavers within 1 inch of the string, or a little farther if you need some more limb to slid your string down when you unstring your bow. That very specific to **Recurves** and recurves only:


'quick on the draw'? says the person whom edited their OP.


I just know that they work and have for numerous people for numerous different reasons. 

After going back and re-reading this thread, it appears you have argued both for and against the use of LimbSavers. It makes me feel like you are just debating for the sake of a debate. I know you are trying to say that you would like to see some third party testing which would be nice from every piece of equipment. You are saying that you put them on the riser and or the part of the limb that doesn't bend, yet you are arguing about the actual instructions.

This post makes me feel like I used to feel about Archery Talk, so many people seem get into an quarrel for what seems entertainment purposes. My first post in this thread was just to give my insight, but instead I feel as if I was attacked and thrown under the bus for giving my $.02. I've tinkered for numerous hours at the range and shot thousands of arrows to give myself the most confidence in my equipment, and all I receive is flak.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jake Kaminski said:


> 'quick on the draw'? says the person whom edited their OP.


The OP? I think you mean my post. I didn't start the thread so I didn't write the Original Post.

Anyway, yes, I do sometimes edit my posts to improve them. I think improvement when I see an opportunity to do so is a good thing. Don't you? And I never edit them to try and trick anybody.



Jake Kaminski said:


> After going back and re-reading this thread, it appears you have argued both for and against the use of LimbSavers. It makes me feel like you are just debating for the sake of a debate.


If you read my posts you'll see that I use LimbSavers based on anecdotes like those from John and yourself and I assume that they work. However, I prefer sound evidence and scientific testing to anecdotes and assumptions. People are subject to cognitive biases and perceptual illusions, which is why we invented the scientific method, which includes methods to control for such biases. You can't always trust your senses.



Jake Kaminski said:


> I know you are trying to say that you would like to see some third party testing which would be nice from every piece of equipment.


Well, testing LimbSavers since they are so pervasive is a good idea, especially since vibration reduction claims and claims of breakage reduction are reasonably straight forward test scientifically. And simms does tests, claiming reductions of up to 20db in noise reduction and 80% vibration reduction. But I don't have the details, so it is hard to evaluate those claims. Sid says they are from LimbSavers on the working ends.



Jake Kaminski said:


> You are saying that you put them on the riser and or the part of the limb that doesn't bend, yet you are arguing about the actual instructions.


I'm noting what Simms tells people to do in their instructions, not recommending their advice. People are mis-reading the instructions.



Jake Kaminski said:


> This post makes me feel like I used to feel about Archery Talk, so many people seem get into an quarrel for what seems entertainment purposes.


The issue is that opinions are like sphincters. Everybody's got one. The problem we are running into is the lack of objective data to form a properly informed opinion, hence the reason there is so much room for argument rather than consensus.



Jake Kaminski said:


> My first post in this thread was just to give my insight, but instead I feel as if I was attacked and thrown under the bus for giving my $.02. I've tinkered for numerous hours at the range and shot thousands of arrows to give myself the most confidence in my equipment, and all I receive is flak.


No, what you get from your tinkering is good results  Just don't expect your anecdotes to be considered dispositive to the rest of us. Just look at this thread. You have experts like John saying that Limbsavers have to go the fade outs. And you have an expert like Frank saying they work best for him near the string grooves, which is where Simms says to put them. And those people are more experienced than you. What do you expect people to do with your opinion, just smile and nod? I couldn't respect you if I thought you believed everybody should just take your experience as gospel when the matter is subject to so much debatable by experts. But, I do take your posts seriously and I think they provide a valuable insight to the mix. You are just not the end all be all. Nobody is.

And as a final note I offer this example of why we can't trust our subjective impressions. I check out this perceptual illusion (as an edit to improve my post :wink.










How many spirals are there in the image?


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

none


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## KaleJMU09 (Jul 15, 2009)

I like having limb savers on my equipment, I use them on my limbs as well as the small savers on my sure-loc. 

I have shot the RX with both f3 and f4 limbs and found that after putting limb savers on (same location as Vics) there was a considerable difference in vibration and noise during the shot. In my opinion the RX is the quietest most vibration free bow I have shot and I was impressed with the reduction after using limb savers. 

I use the savers on my sure-loc because I find that with them my sight vibrates less.

Just my opinion.


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

*how to test limbsavers?*

Is there a way of attaching limbsavers to limbs then taking them off and placing them on again for retesting over and over again without messing up the finish on your limbs? I know this is a stupid question but I'd like to do my own testing to find my best placement.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jake Kaminski said:


> none


Quite. It isn't that I thought you wouldn't be able to discover the circles having alerted you to the illusion, but the illusion of spirals is a powerful one, especially if you aren't told it is an illusion. We are subject to many other cognitive illusions, but they take place without calling attention to themselves. They include suggestibility/placebo effect and confirmation bias and many others. They are some of the reasons why anecdotes are not sound evidence and why your own personal experience isn't necessarily dispositive, especially when others have opposite experiences. Hence science, the method by which we separate what is true from what merely seems to be true.


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

Experts such as John and Frank are two completely different experts, one shoots 240+ feet and the other 21+ feet. Both require MUCH MUCH different bow performances. 

You are again proving my point that you are discussing for the sake of discussing. 

My $.02 was not put in to be the 'end all be all' as you call it. I am just saying that your points are numerous and often repeated. 






As far as detaching and re-attaching the limbsavers. I just pull them off (make sure to grasp the hard plastic base) and peel off the remaining sticky tape. Then use 3M double sided foam tape (you can find it in the automotive section in walmart) the foam itself is grey and the outside is red. Just place it on the limb again after you have trimmed the excess tape. I personally have not have any problems damaging the limbs if there is no major gouges where you place the limbsaver. You can also carefully slide a razor blade under it to cut the tape.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

KaleJMU09 said:


> I like having limb savers on my equipment, I use them on my limbs as well as the small savers on my sure-loc.
> 
> I have shot the RX with both f3 and f4 limbs and found that after putting limb savers on (same location as Vics) there was a considerable difference in vibration and noise during the shot. In my opinion the RX is the quietest most vibration free bow I have shot and I was impressed with the reduction after using limb savers.
> 
> ...


Did you also use/try the Hoyt vibration reduction system built for the FX? If so how did it compare? Or did you use both at the same time?

Hoyt writes:



> Mounting a damper (for example, a Doinker with a weight) using the patent-pending Limb Dampening Bushing on the portion of the limb within the Paralever system means there is no speed loss penalty from this vibration reduction method- yet it is far more efficient than either riser-mounted dampers, or performance-robbing "stick-on" type dampers. Shooters who prefer a sharper feel can simply omit the use of a damper. Either way, the Limb Bushing allows optional use of a top rod if desired.


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

Its not the same impact on vibration and adds lots of weight that I could have on the end of my stabilizer bars that will actually have an impact on the stabilization of the bow.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jake Kaminski said:


> Experts such as John and Frank are two completely different experts, one shoots 240+ feet and the other 21+ feet. Both require MUCH MUCH different bow performances.
> 
> You are again proving my point that you are discussing for the sake of discussing.


No, I'm discussing for the sake of learning. Some things have **nuance**, as you prove by claiming that John and Frank have different needs served by different useage of LimbSavers--but we still don't have any good objective data in this thread, nor have I seen you make a case why it would be a bad idea to have.


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

I never argued the fact that it would be nice to have third party data testing. 


Why don't you just go out and have at it? Just make sure to post a picture of yourself next to the pile of broken limbs.

/thread


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jake Kaminski said:


> I never argued the fact that it would be nice to have third party data testing.
> 
> 
> Why don't you just go out and have at it? Just make sure to post a picture of yourself next to the pile of broken limbs.
> ...


Since you have a problem with the way this thread has gone, why not fill us in in how you think it should have gone given that there is, in fact, so much difference in expert opinion (and I do not include myself in the category of expert) on the efficacy and proper use of LimbSavers?

My impression is that you seem to take umbrage at not having your personal anecdotes accepted as dispositive gospel. I should remind you that anecdotes are not sound evidence in the scientific sense, thus not considering your anecdotes to be dispositive proof of your claims is not an aspersion on you in any way, shape or form but a general scientific principle, a standard of proof that is applied to all such anecdotes. Also, the testing doesn't have to be "3d party" but scientifically valid and relevant to FITA recurve. If you have the scientific chops and equipment you could do a proper methodologically sound study. But mere anecdotes don't make for sound evidence for the reasons I have outlined in previous posts.


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

If I afix, remove, afix, etc. will it reduce the resale value of the limbs? I know I sound like a worry wart (because I am). Also, before you afix the limbsavers do you clean the surface with any products so the tape sticks better or just buffing with a clean dry towel?
TIA


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

mcfling said:


> If I afix, remove, afix, etc. will it reduce the resale value of the limbs? I know I sound like a worry wart (because I am). Also, before you afix the limbsavers do you clean the surface with any products so the tape sticks better or just buffing with a clean dry towel?
> TIA


I use rubbing alcohol to clean the limbs, and the tape leaves no residue when you peel it off. 


Warbow, 


There is not that much of a difference in 'expert' opinion. If frank shot long distances and needed to gain yardage/speed he would not put them out that far. but he doesn't need to shoot faster. I agreed with both opinions. Both are correct IMHO and are agreeably different applications. Both of which love limbsavers. 

Sorry I am not up to your standards as far as communication goes. As I only have a high school diploma and you obviously have some sort of philosophy degree I just don't feel like getting a dictionary out anymore to be able to understand your posts. I am not saying my anecdotes (opinions/findings) are not being accepted. You are just missing my point that I am trying to make to you. Feel free to continue on this post but I cannot waste anymore of my time.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jake Kaminski said:


> You are just missing my point that I am trying to make to you.


Yes, I am. Perhaps if you would state your point rather than merely saying I'm missing it would help with that.


And there is nothing wrong with just having a high school diploma. But I'm not going to condescend to you and hold you to lower expectations because of it. I assume you are just as smart and just as capable as anybody in this forum.



> There is not that much of a difference in 'expert' opinion.


Yes, actually, there is. John and others say they are key. Sid, one of the world's premier limb makers, says they are a bad idea. I'd call that a big difference of expert opinion.


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

I'm such a worry wart about messing up my limbs. I wish I could just hand Jake a set of limbsavers to put on my limbs for me. I'll bet this weekend there's going to be a run on limbsavers. I'll have to get there early.

I want to shoot like Jake.


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

If I'm at a tournament your at, don't hesitate to come introduce yourself and I'd be more then happy to help you out. Just don't do it when I'm at full draw or something haha.

Check out my website in my signature for a list of tournaments I will most likely be at. Some I am attending I do not have listed such as the Easton Cup or other unplanned events at this time


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

Jake Kaminski said:


> If I'm at a tournament your at, don't hesitate to come introduce yourself and I'd be more then happy to help you out. Just don't do it when I'm at full draw or something haha.


Don't be surprised if someone walks up to you somewhere sometime and doesn't ask you for your autograph but instead hands you a pair of limbsavers and says "please stick me".


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## dhouse (Feb 3, 2010)

Warbow said:


> It doesn't say "anywhere below" but "**just** below"--that is, as close to the unstrung loop end as you can get it without interfering with unstringing the bow, but no closer than 1 inch from the tensioned string. It is clear if you read the instructions carefully and completely that the intention of the instructions is for the LimbSavers to be placed at the working ends of the limb.


Oooh, I assumed you were going to bring that up, and I was prepared to parse the meaning of that next line with you, to show you how, through various quirks of context and phrasing in the English language, that line could be correctly interpreted to mean "If you de-string your bow by sliding the string down the limb, _then at the very least _place LimbSaver® just below where your string stops down the limb." It would have become one of those annoying tit-for-tat back and forths that people interested in the actual topic of the thread skip over (ring any bells?). But then you offered a further piece of evidence:



> This is confirmed by Sid, who notes that is where the anti-vibration test data comes from. So your snark is ironically misplaced.


Sid? Sid confirmed that you were right? Oh, I hadn't noticed that in this thread. I suppose that snark _was_ ironically misplaced, then. Just to be sure, though, I went back through the thread to see what I had missed. Please note my own added emphasis: 



Borderbows said:


> John, I'll Send you one of the dozen packs we have here. It advises you to install them 1" from the string (ie, up near the the string grooves). Thats the official line on the pack. Thats the loction where the vibration analysis was done *id assume.*


I'd hardly call that confirmation. Sounds more like one archer's assumption to me. An admittedly reasonable assumption, sure, but hardly "confirmation." I'm so glad we're jumping down people's throats for not reading carefully tonight.


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

Probably going to AZ Cup. Else, see you at the National Target. I'll take you up on putting my limbsavers on my limbs.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

dhouse said:


> I'd hardly call that confirmation. Sounds more like one archer's assumption to me. An admittedly reasonable assumption, sure, but hardly "confirmation." I'm so glad we're jumping down people's throats for not reading carefully tonight.


Ok, you definitely get that one. I'd missed the assumption by Sid. My error. But you still lose on reading the instruction's plain meaning. Nice try though, but "jumping down people's throats?" Your hyperbolic opprobrium isn't backed up by the record. Merely correcting your meretricious parsing is nothing so dramatic.


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## wildjim (Jan 27, 2010)

Wow I an learning all kinds of new words read Warbow's commentary ; )

As for me I am on the fence and waiting for the Limbsavers with crystal, copper and magnets integrated into the rubber as one poster claimed it even cures elbow and joint ailments! I wonder if it affects brain waves!

Anyway really I kind of agree with Warbow and Sid as there is just no "real" proof, that I've read yet, that limbsavers save limbs or cure elbow ailments.

Also I just imagine the mystic rubber becoming unstuck and falling off at a critical time when my elbow is really acting up : (


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Thank You I figured it out ; ) Respectable archers!
> 
> But I am not convinced a rubber sticky is that useful on bow limbs as it must have equal negative effect on limb speed or maybe mask another problem.


Respectable? Ha, ha. 

Sure wish you guys had a chance to spend time with Vic and Butch as I have. When those two do or do not do something with their equipment, everyone should pay attention.

Now, having said that, I don't ever recall seeing Butch use Limbsavers on his limbs. Only Vic. But then, I've also seen butch use a different bow every year too. Vic is still using the same bow that he used when I first shot with him 6 years ago. 

The pair of original SKY limbs that I got from the late Ann Hoyt have always worn limbsavers on them. Good thing too as they have seen over 100,000 shots in the past 6 years and are still going strong. 

Something I did early-on when testing the affects of limbsavers was to shoot through a chronograph both with and without them to see the result. Guess what? (some will refuse to believe this, but that's okay...) The arrow was a few fps FASTER with the limbsavers attached at the fades than without. Myself and Mark Williams both witnessed this. Apparently, the added mass at the fades caused the limb tips to accelerate more. Go figure. 



> How many spirals are there in the image?





> none


LOL! Now that right there is funny... 

John.


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## wildjim (Jan 27, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Respectable? Ha, ha.
> 
> Sure wish you guys had a chance to spend time with Vic and Butch as I have. When those two do or do not do something with their equipment, everyone should pay attention.
> 
> ...


That's interesting, increased arrow speed. . .

I can imagine how that might happen.

It would be interesting if some more testing was done with published results of the effects of limbsavers on multiple limbs and limb positions.

Is there any published data from the limbsavers designer?


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

What are some of the downsides of not using Limbsavers? I heard that they increase the life of limbs which suggests that limbs will break without the limbsaver. This may be a dumb question but at which limb poundage do you worry about limbs breaking or cracking? I get the impression that Limbsavers do work to increase the life of heavy limbs but not so much for lighter limbs, is this right or wrong?

Also, I know rubber ages especially in the hot sun dries out and cracks. How often do you change your limbsavers?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

wildjim said:


> Anyway really I kind of agree with Warbow and Sid as there is just no "real" proof, that I've read yet, that limbsavers save limbs or cure elbow ailments.


Well, I do want more quantitative data, but I'm going to leave my LimbSavers on absent data to the contrary.


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> ...Apparently, the added mass at the fades caused the limb tips to accelerate more....


Sorry for my ignorance John, what is fades?

TIA


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## lorteti (Apr 14, 2008)

It's so funny that some people still ignoring that rubbers do reduce high frequency vibrations and noises.
There is reason why Mathews put rubbers in there risers, they make a videos that shows the difference.
And in the tennis world, many years ago has been proven that a piece of rubber attached in the netting reduce vibration and noise.
Limbsavers is one of the very few items in archery that do there job so perfect, that I don't even think about not having them.
jx


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## OutPerformed (Jan 20, 2009)

Jake, have you tried these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovE6UtPj8LM

The other product seems to be significantly better than Limbsaver.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

OutPerformed said:


> Jake, have you tried these?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovE6UtPj8LM
> 
> The other product seems to be significantly better than Limbsaver.


I found that test impressive, too. But, now I'm not so sure. Did you see the other vid titled: "bowjax vs gummy worm"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNb9F9kBiWI&NR=1


(Spoiler alert: The gummy worm was better)

Sometimes its the test, not the result.


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## lorteti (Apr 14, 2008)

OutPerformed said:


> Jake, have you tried these?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovE6UtPj8LM
> 
> The other product seems to be significantly better than Limbsaver.


That test doesn't mean anything in real world, that thing is 10lbs?
Here is a real world bow test video response from Limbsaver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1pwNsoeqjc&NR=1

jx


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## Oaklandish (Mar 6, 2008)

I guess I am lost on the insistence of hard scientific evidence for the use of a $15 piece of rubber, that as Jake has pointed out can be placed and removed from the limbs carefully enough to cause no harm to the limbs' finish. So, in the absence of twenty years and millions of dollars of hard scientific data on this immensely world changing issue for this multi-trillion dollar industry, may I humbly suggest that the best we can hope for is the anecdotal evidence that we provide for each other?:wink:
And if we can agree on this premise, I know this may upset a lot of us here, but as many aspects in life, I would offer that the "evidence" that some offer should be taken with more weight than others. That Jake is shooting at a world class level and has access to a lot of archery equipment and resources (coaches, high speed cameras etc.) than most of us should give his input more weight. Clearly the limbsavers are not hurting his shooting. Are they helping it? I don't think we will be getting any hard evidence one way or the other on this. We have to go with what he says. This is not to say that we should all go buy limbsavers because Jake or Vic or whomever else does, just that they are using them because they think they help. They would not be on their bows if they hurt their scores. Why not accept it for this and try not to run our top shooters off this forum?:wink:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

mcfling said:


> Sorry for my ignorance John, what is fades?
> 
> TIA


MC, fades are where the limb wedges taper, or "fade" out. Usually about 4" from the riser or so...

This is the end of the non-working part of the limb, which is why it makes sense to put limbsavers there and not further out on the limb.

Many "traditional" bowhunters have placed limbsavers near the ends of the limbs for years. Some even put them where the string will strike the limbsaver. It makes a bow very, very quiet which is fine for hunting at close range. But you could tape a block of wood at that point on the limb and probably get the same amount of noise reduction since what you're doing is slowing down the working part of the limb. And no fita archer I know is more concerned about bow noise than performance. Hence, locating the limbsavers at the fades...

John.


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks John.

OMG, I feel so stupid, thank goodness for the anonymity of the internet. I even googled "archery fades" etc. So, embarrassing......
:embarres:


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## dhouse (Feb 3, 2010)

KaleJMU09 said:


> I like having limb savers on my equipment, I use them on my limbs as well as the small savers on my sure-loc.
> 
> I have shot the RX with both f3 and f4 limbs and found that after putting limb savers on (same location as Vics) there was a considerable difference in vibration and noise during the shot. In my opinion the RX is the quietest most vibration free bow I have shot and I was impressed with the reduction after using limb savers.
> 
> ...


I'm intrigued by these mini limbsavers, since my sight often vibrates loose. Where on the sight do you put them? Do you use just one? Does anyone else here use them? Any other anecdotal evidence? :wink:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Why not accept it for this and try not to run our top shooters off this forum?


Because if you can't beat them in real life, you can at least beat them up on the message forums... right? LOL!

John.


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## Jake Kaminski (Mar 10, 2007)

I have not used bowjax, only limbsavers. 


I too use the mini limbsavers on my sureloc sight. I put them on both the vertical and horizontal movement of the sight. Stick them in the center of the movement nobs.

I also use the sure-loc/imbsaver sight saver on my bows.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

you can use the bowjax string-jax on just about any threaded sight pin/rod. they are far cheaper than the sureloc sightsaver thingy. lots of uses for rubber:darkbeer:


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## KaleJMU09 (Jul 15, 2009)

dhouse said:


> I'm intrigued by these mini limbsavers, since my sight often vibrates loose. Where on the sight do you put them? Do you use just one? Does anyone else here use them? Any other anecdotal evidence? :wink:


I put them on the knobs where you adjust the sight. They work well and help reduce vibration in the sight. This can help prevent your aperture, and small screws from coming loose. There are two in the picture because while traveling with my sight one fell off, its an easy fix with some double sided tape. There is usually an extra one on the bottom knob. 










Hope this helps


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## KaleJMU09 (Jul 15, 2009)

Warbow said:


> Did you also use/try the Hoyt vibration reduction system built for the FX? If so how did it compare? Or did you use both at the same time?
> 
> Hoyt writes:



I have not tried the Hoyt vibration reduction system on the RX. I have tried a similar system on my aerotec and helix and noticed a small reduction in vibration, but it was mainly on my bow to add weight. Currently I am not looking to add a top weight so I have not put it on the RX.


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## mads_breum (May 20, 2008)

Has anyone ever tried the Bowjax Slimjax? 
I have a few sets of limbs that I want to equip and the Slimjax are somewhat more affordable than Limbsavers.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

KaleJMU09 said:


> I have not tried the Hoyt vibration reduction system on the RX. I have tried a similar system on my aerotec and helix and noticed a small reduction in vibration, but it was mainly on my bow to add weight. Currently I am not looking to add a top weight so I have not put it on the RX.


I note that Frank Addingtion, Jr. (a Hoyt sponsored trick shooter) has also chosen to use limbsavers rather than use screw in dampeners. The stab. taps in the limbs are supposed to be one of the major innovations in the Fusion FX. It will be interesting to see if anybody takes advantage of them or not. Seems like many people will continue to set up the FX the way they set up their current bows. Thanks for the info on your set up.


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## andyman1970 (Apr 2, 2008)

KaleJMU09 said:


> I put them on the knobs where you adjust the sight. They work well and help reduce vibration in the sight. This can help prevent your aperture, and small screws from coming loose. There are two in the picture because while traveling with my sight one fell off, its an easy fix with some double sided tape. There is usually an extra one on the bottom knob.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This interests me - today I also saw a Sure Loc site that had a Limbsaver mounted onto the 9" bar against the block. Makes perfect sense to me on a compound but I couldn't find anything on the Limbsaver website. 

It looks like a rubber piece which fits over the bar and the limbsaver then rests against the vertical block. Is anyone familiar with this?


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## andyman1970 (Apr 2, 2008)

Here's possibly a better explanation:


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## dhouse (Feb 3, 2010)

Andyman,

Is this what you're talking about?

http://www.eders.com/products/sure-loc-sight-saver.html


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## andyman1970 (Apr 2, 2008)

That's looks like what I saw earlier today - thanks!


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

I can agree that limb savers / bowjax... or any vibration dampening gear will reduce vibration.

My question is... 

Do you think the mass of the rubber thing (brand name excluded) would dampen the mass of the whole bow. 
I can see the string silencers helping with string hum, as the ratio of dampener to energy source mass its stopping is all good stuff. 
As per the Bowjax You tube vid. the limb butts have little mass.
Id like to see that video done to a whole riser/limb/stab/sight combo.

I can see them working on an outer limb. As the moving parts are light in mass, compaired to the mass of the dampener.

I have yet to experince any difference first hand on a tangable change in feel with rubber bits on the limb. (when near the fadeouts)

Archery is about different opinions, and different view points as the sport is soo diverse and complex. It keeps us all interested. No complaints there from me.
I just think i could sell more limbsavers, than limb savers do...
I would say that you need 2 packs, as your kit box would benefit from one in each corner as to stop it getting scratched... :mg: Good product in my books!

The compound vid on Youtube was based on Limb savers at the outer reaches of the limb... Most movement.
and compound limbs dont move half as much as recurve limbs. So different topic in our books.

What ever you thinkings are, all limbs come without them, so your free to fit them how you like... its a personal choice... 
ive just said our view is as above, and our limbs wont be coming with them as standard as your,arrow has left the bow and your grip shouldnt be that tight as to control the bow once the arrow has gone... which is where the limb saver does its course.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Reading this and other threads on here is making my head hurt. While differences in opinion exist and to debate one's position is also great, "debate" is not the chosen sport of archery talk. Some of us on here (you know whom I'm talking to) have decided to engage in debate or at least stir things up in just about every thread. 

So let's knock it off. Let's have simple discussions on the merits or drawbacks and leave it there. Some are getting mighty close to making it personal. I don't really want to start having to closely moderate this place. Be kind, be repsectful, be helpful and have fun.

Don't make me spank you...


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Sorry to disagree with you Greg, but I have limbsavers on every single bow I own. They work that well.
> 
> John.


The ones that are not on my bow will be on the hook for whover wants them. S-Coil in the riser work much better.


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## gig'em 99 (Feb 1, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Something I did early-on when testing the affects of limbsavers was to shoot through a chronograph both with and without them to see the result. Guess what? (some will refuse to believe this, but that's okay...) The arrow was a few fps FASTER with the limbsavers attached at the fades than without. Myself and Mark Williams both witnessed this. Apparently, the added mass at the fades caused the limb tips to accelerate more. Go figure.
> 
> John.


Well, after reading this, I decided to test it on my Border Hex 5Hs. I figured for $20, I might as well try it out for myself.

The Sids have both said that they do not recommend Limbsavers on their limbs, and Sid Jr. has also stated that the instructions they have indicate placement up by the string groove.

Well, I went to the shop, verified my tune was acceptable, and headed to the chrono. I'm shooting 45#s on my borders with X10s that weigh in about 320 -330 grains (I don't remember exactly). I shot 204 fps, 203 fps, 204 fps.

I then applied the limbsavers (for recurve), almost at the end of the fade-out. Exactly 1.5" from the edge of the "pocket" on my X-factor (I know, not really a pocket). And proceeded to shoot it though the chrono again....
I shot 204 fps, 203 fps, 204 fps. Exactly the same results. Now I'm tempted to bump them out a bit farther (1/2" or so) to see what happens. But I can certainly affirm that they did not hamper the limb's performance. Sure made the bow quieter though. :wink: 

Brian


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## lorteti (Apr 14, 2008)

gig'em 99 said:


> But I can certainly affirm that they did not hamper the limb's performance. Sure made the bow quieter though. :wink:
> 
> Brian


Well, that is exactly what Limbsavers do, absorb high frequency vibrations and noises.
And with no performance drawbacks, what can you ask for more.

jx


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## LoveMyHoyt (Nov 29, 2008)

gig'em 99 said:


> ....Now I'm tempted to bump them out a bit farther (1/2" or so) to see what happens. But I can certainly affirm that they did not hamper the limb's performance. Sure made the bow quieter though. :wink:
> 
> Brian


If you find a way to take them off and reapply them to your limbs be sure and let me know. I was under the impression that once they are on - they're on for good.


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

gig'em 99 said:


> I shot 204 fps, 203 fps, 204 fps. Exactly the same results. Now I'm tempted to bump them out a bit farther (1/2" or so) to see what happens. But I can certainly affirm that they did not hamper the limb's performance. Sure made the bow quieter though. :wink:
> 
> Brian


Awesome work. Reports of testing. Not just opinions.


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## mads_breum (May 20, 2008)

I ended up buying a few sets of Bowjax slimjax (they were cheaper for me than limbsavers). As recommended by others in this thread I stuck them on the fade-out area of the limbs and chronographed before and after. I saw the exact same thing as gig'em 99 - same arrow speed but noticeably less noise and vibration.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

LoveMyHoyt said:


> If you find a way to take them off and reapply them to your limbs be sure and let me know. I was under the impression that once they are on - they're on for good.


I have removed and re-applied limbsavers many, many times. In fact, the same limbsavers I put on the first set of SKY limbs I got back in '04 have probably shot on 4 or 5 different sets of limbs now (and they're back on the original SKY's... ha, ha) Guess I'm just that cheap. Okay, thrifty... 

Anyway, a good outdoor double-sided tape will work as long as you clean everything really well. A good way to get limbsavers off is to take a length of serving material and use it like a saw, pulling it back and forth under the plastic base of the limbsaver until you "cut" through the glue between the base and the limb. Then use goo gone or something similar to clean the glue residue off, then alcohol or soap and water to clean the surfaces off.

The tape I use is a heavy duty outdoor double sided tape I can usually find at Wal-Mart. It has the red backing and is grey in color. Works really well for limbsavers and stick-on rests.

John.


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