# ASA let down rule



## jimb2 (Aug 27, 2016)

K. After a shooter sets their sight and draws the bow the sight may not be reset after a letdown. A shooter may only let-down two (2) times on a target. Upon a third letdown, or upon resetting their sight, the shooter will receive a score of zero for that target.

I've seen some guys on the range that will have a problem with this


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

jimb2 said:


> I'm reading it that you get a Zero when you let down the 3rd time.


Yeah....that's what it says. That gives the archer 3 attempts to make the shot.....which is more than enough IMO

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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

jimb2 said:


> K. After a shooter sets their sight and draws the bow the sight may not be reset after a letdown. A shooter may only let-down two (2) times on a target. Upon a third letdown, or upon resetting their sight, the shooter will receive a score of zero for that target.
> 
> I've seen some guys on the range that will have a problem with this


Me too.

Gonna be up to the group to call them on it though.


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## swampy_44 (Nov 15, 2013)

Just like on time limits right?:zip:


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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

I like this rule. It is certainly fair as in my limited experience, I have never seen someone let down twice on the same target.


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## jimb2 (Aug 27, 2016)

Halfcawkt said:


> I like this rule. It is certainly fair as in my limited experience, I have never seen someone let down twice on the same target.


I've watched guys let down twice on almost every target. Some are like softball hitters, they aren't going to shoot the first one no matter what.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

jimb2 said:


> I've watched guys let down twice on almost every target. Some are like softball hitters, they aren't going to shoot the first one no matter what.


Sounds like these are the type of guys that caused the rule to be necessary in the first place. In a shootdown round, the archers get 1 minute.... in World Archery elimination or team rounds, it's 20 seconds or the arrow doesn't count, so again, 3 attempts to shoot one arrow is more than enough. Those who might have an issue with it probably aren't those who are finishing at the top anyway.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I like the two let down rule, I am a guy that lets down and I believe in it as a good thing to learn to be a strong shooter who doesn't send crappy shots on their way.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I wish there was a more standard shot sequence set for known and unknown.

Unknown:

1. when the group in front leaves the next shooting stake you move your stuff over and all shooters in the group have 2 minutes to walk up to the stake and range the target. 

2. Return to the bow and set your sight

3. First shooter steps up and is allowed to look at the target one time with the binos and then must set his feet and start shooting. No more range finding and no second or third look at target with the binos.

4. After shooting you must vacate the shooting stake and sit down your bow and then find a spot off to the side to take a look at your arrow with your binos, if you stand at the stake and look at the arrow with your binos you receive a instant zero.

5. Next shooter already has his sight set and can approach and take a look with his binos and then take his shot. Done!


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Right now we show up at the stake and we mill around a little and then we all go up to the stake and range for a while but some guys don't and just wait for their turn to shoot so we spend 2 or so minutes ranging and then we back off and the first shooter steps up and ranges for a while and then sets his sight and then ranges some more and then takes a few looks with his binos and then makes a final decision to execute or range some more. Then takes a couple let downs and then looks through the binos again and then sends the arrow on its way. Then he stands there and looks at the arrow through his binos right there on the stake. 

The current approach that a good shooter must use to be competitive on the national asa courses is a very anal approach where he takes his time and enjoys the day as he over thinks every stinking second of the time spent on the shooting line. The guys that are really good at decision making and can do this all day freaking long can march around the course and not shoot 8's and aim at every one of the 12's and hit nearly half of them and stay in the 10 ring the rest of the time. 

My whole game plan is to find a way to do the stuff I mentioned above in a smooth way and play that very game at a high level. If the asa would structure the shot sequence like i outlined above in the previous post I made I would learn how to play that very game the best I could also.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Known shot sequence for asa nationals:

1. When the group ahead leaves you approach the shooting area and sit down your stuff

2. Approach the shooting line with your range finder and get the distance and then take a look at the 12 ring with the binos.

3. Go back and set your sight over by your shooting stool and wait for your turn.

4. Approach the shooting stake and get your footing and then take a single look at the 12 ring with the binos

5. Execute your shot with a max of two let downs.

6. Leave the stake and sit your bow down and then look at the arrow with your binos off to the side.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Padgett said:


> Known shot sequence for asa nationals:
> 
> 1. When the group ahead leaves you approach the shooting area and sit down your stuff
> 
> ...


That is basically how we do it. Occasionally you can only see the target from the stake so two folks at a time step up to range. Occasionally I might give the target another look through binos. I might look through binos if I let down for no other reason than to give myself a few seconds. I've let down twice on a single target quite a few times. I've letdown once on a target many times and should have letdown many more times! 

It does annoy me when folks stand at the stake after they shoot. At least step back or off to the side to give the next shooter room to get set at the stake. 

One thing I've seen all too often is that some people slow things down because they simply like to BS too much.


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## B.T. Splinterz (Aug 31, 2016)

Someone lets down 3 times needs to be disqualified


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> That is basically how we do it. Occasionally you can only see the target from the stake so two folks at a time step up to range. Occasionally I might give the target another look through binos. I might look through binos if I let down for no other reason than to give myself a few seconds. I've let down twice on a single target quite a few times. I've letdown once on a target many times and should have letdown many more times!
> 
> It does annoy me when folks stand at the stake after they shoot. At least step back or off to the side to give the next shooter room to get set at the stake.
> 
> One thing I've seen all too often is that some people slow things down because they simply like to BS too much.


Watching some of the pros, I notice that some stand at the stake after the stake and glass the target. I guess they're looking to see where their arrow hit, and want to make sure in case somebody sneaks in and moves their arrow before they get to the target.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

Padgett said:


> Known shot sequence for asa nationals:
> 
> 1. When the group ahead leaves you approach the shooting area and sit down your stuff
> 
> ...


Agreed^^^^. That's pretty much the way I shoot, with the exception of the 1st glassing of the rings. My routine goes something like this:

1. If time allows with slow groups in front, I will range the target after moving my stool. 

2. If the groups are moving well, I will wait to range the target when approaching the stake. Unfortunately, I do not have enough magnification in my rangefinder to also study the 12 rings.

3. Glass the 12 rings.

4. Execute the shot. I do let down on occasion but not often enough sometimes.

5. Leave the stake and return to stool and glass my arrow in the target (which usually is not where I would like for it to be unfortunately)

Funny thing, more times than not, I know when the shot goes off, judging by how pure the hold/release were, I seldom have to glass the arrow in the target. My execution typically lets me know that I've fired a nice shot, and a lot of times these are 12's.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

^^^^And this all takes place in well under a minute. Never had anyone time me though. If I had to guess, I'd say 30-40 seconds. With a recovering shoulder, and older joints, I am unable to hold a shot at full draw as long as some I see. My window for a shot really needs to happen within 6 seconds of drawing.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

Now, I have seen guys go through their routine, and then let down to ask for someone to shade their sight or peep. Inevitably, this usually results in that shooter going over the one minute mark. However, in the spirit of competition and courtesy, I would never make mention of time in that instance.

I have shot behind a fella at the KY ASA State two years ago, who would literally go through his routine, then let down. Go all the way back through his routine...yes, even glassing again, get to full draw, then let down to ask for an umbrella. After a few times, I had to start the chrono on my watch. Upwards of 3 minutes is just TOO LONG. I don't care what class you're shooting or what's on the line. I honestly can not fathom how the other guys could stomach shooting with him. All I could think about was how to put a target between our groups so I wouldn't have to witness that for the 5 hours it was going to take them to shoot the course at that rate.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I love the asa game and once you accept that once you get to the tournament in the morning that you are going to sit on the practice 3d range for a few hours and then eat a burger and head to the real range and be there for 3.5 hours and then you are going to head to the motel. It is a all day thing and the nice medium steak is waiting for you as a reward at the end of that day. 

I enjoyed typing up the two shot sequence things above but it really isn't needed, the asa game the way it is played right now is just awesome.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I will say that for the unknown course I still wish that we could do it with no binos, I have always thought it would make the game so much more challenging and a smoother course all in one because the number of times everyone is glassing the target before, during and after the shot is a lot. 

No binos would really force you to know where the scoring rings were at and owning a range would be a even bigger advantage because you see and shoot them more often and would know where to aim.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Padgett said:


> No binos would really force you to know where the scoring rings were at and owning a range would be a even bigger advantage because you see and shoot them more often and would know where to aim.


You can't eliminate binoculars in target archery (competitive 3D)....especially in ASA with the offset bonus ring. If you eliminate binos, then you have to eliminate scope magnification too. We're not "hunting" those rubber deer, we're participating in target archery



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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I would feel so naked on the course if I didn't have my binos, I could care less if I have a 4x lens or not. I shoot just fine either way but to not have binos would suck really bad.


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## B.T. Splinterz (Aug 31, 2016)

you could ditch the bino's IF you went 'MARKED', Unknown, as radical as that may sound bouncing around inside your skull. It would move a round a lil faster too.


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## tryinhardarcher (Feb 3, 2006)

Scores would drop drastically with no binos. It's impossible to see exactly how a target is quartered or leaning at longer distances without them.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

B.T. Splinterz said:


> you could ditch the bino's IF you went 'MARKED', Unknown, as radical as that may sound bouncing around inside your skull. It would move a round a lil faster too.


I shoot "marked" targets all year round, so I really don't want "marks" on my 3D targets too, I like the diversity of "unknown" and "unmarked".
As for time, I don't understand why is everyone so hung up on spending 3 - 3-1/2 hours on a course. If I drive 100+ miles or get on an airplane to go to a significant archery tournament, the last thing I want is to do is rush through the actual shooting part of the "competition".


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

Padgett said:


> I would feel so naked on the course if I didn't have my binos,


I've shot with you brother and in no way do i want to see you naked.LOL:mg::jeez:


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I am so glad you feel that way, now you are allowed to shoot with me again in the future. 


It took me a while but I absolutely love the asa weekends, the only thing that sucks the life out of me is driving all night thursday night and then trying to get recovered from that on friday. We have figured it out pretty good and by saturday I feel pretty normal. Other than that once you accept that you had better have your bow dialed in before you get there and that you really don't shoot that much at a asa other than scoring shots spaced out 13 minutes between shots you are good to go.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Padgett said:


> I wish there was a more standard shot sequence set for known and unknown.
> 
> Unknown:
> 
> ...


# 4 is in the rules already....glassing from the stake after shooting.....If I remember correctly it is a warning first offence, then -5, then 0?????? I do know it is in the rules, no glassing after shooting while still on the stake....


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

So if there is already a time limit per shooter, why add the let down rule? Who cares if someone lets down 7 times, as long as his arrow is gone within the time limit? If you enforce the one-you don't need the other..JMO.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

hrtlnd164 said:


> So if there is already a time limit per shooter, why add the let down rule? Who cares if someone lets down 7 times, as long as his arrow is gone within the time limit? If you enforce the one-you don't need the other..JMO.


Easier to call on the offender. Even the shooter knows when he/she lets down.


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## B.T. Splinterz (Aug 31, 2016)

nestly said:


> I shoot "marked" targets all year round, so I really don't want "marks" on my 3D targets too, I like the diversity of "unknown" and "unmarked".
> As for time, I don't understand why is everyone so hung up on spending 3 - 3-1/2 hours on a course. If I drive 100+ miles or get on an airplane to go to a significant archery tournament, the last thing I want is to do is rush through the actual shooting part of the "competition".


I think most people would like to shoot an arrow faster than every 10 minutes. In the south there isn't much diversity, unless you want to shoot unknown by yourself? folks in my parts are terrified to shoot an unknown 3D target.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

hrtlnd164 said:


> So if there is already a time limit per shooter, why add the let down rule? Who cares if someone lets down 7 times, as long as his arrow is gone within the time limit? If you enforce the one-you don't need the other..JMO.


Some people use there sight to frame the target to judge distance..the more times they can aim and let down the closer they can get to the yardage..


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## crashnburn715 (Jan 12, 2014)

I agree with rule, yes we already have a time limit that is completely ignored by the majority in my class, the let down rule is much clearer than timing people. If u were to time everyone you would be labeled as unreasonable but third let down is a zero is very easy line to draw.


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## Archerbruce (Feb 18, 2008)

I agree with the rule.
To me once you get to the National level,letting down 1 time every now and then is no big deal.
But when you start letting down 2 or 3 times on several targets then you are telling me that you are unprepared for this tournament.

Get it figured out before you come.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Well, most of us shoot a lens and possibly a clarifier. If you are the first shooter in the group and you step up there not realizing that there is some funny glare coming in from the rear or the side there is going to be a let down because you may not see the target at all. Then you ask for a umbrella and on the second draw your guess for where it should be held may be wrong so there comes the second let down. By the time the next shooters are ready we know where to hold the umbrella so it goes smoother for the rest of the group.


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## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

I LIKE THIS. I hate it when people whip out their Binoc's right after shooting and stand at the stake. Selfish.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Milo357 said:


> I LIKE THIS. I hate it when people whip out their Binoc's right after shooting and stand at the stake. Selfish.


That's against the rules too.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Milo357 said:


> I LIKE THIS. I hate it when people whip out their Binoc's right after shooting and stand at the stake. Selfish.


Already a rule against that, maybe they should make a 3 step rule also.. I guess my point is that if the group doesn't call someone out on taking too much time, they probably won't call them out on the let down rule either.. May be easier to let a range official do the dirty work though. When you know you are shooting with that group, you don't want to be 'that' guy for the weekend. Even if it is a just call..


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

hrtlnd164 said:


> Already a rule against that, maybe they should make a 3 step rule also.. I guess my point is that if the group doesn't call someone out on taking too much time, they probably won't call them out on the let down rule either.. May be easier to let a range official do the dirty work though. When you know you are shooting with that group, you don't want to be 'that' guy for the weekend. Even if it is a just call..


I think folks will call it because it differs from calling "TIME" on the shooter. If you call "TIME" that means you were checking up on them. If the three let down happens it is obvious to everyone in the group and it won't look like you're picking on the guy.


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## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

hrtlnd164 said:


> Already a rule against that, maybe they should make a 3 step rule also.. I guess my point is that if the group doesn't call someone out on taking too much time, they probably won't call them out on the let down rule either.. May be easier to let a range official do the dirty work though. When you know you are shooting with that group, you don't want to be 'that' guy for the weekend. Even if it is a just call..


I agree. It's hard as heck to call out someone at your own stake though. Someones going to get pissed, and no one wants the carry over for the rest of the shoot. Best to say something at the very START of a round to reiterate the rules. No ones going to bad mouth someone for reminding everyone of the rules, and if they do, the rest of the groups will probably step up the the first guys defense. I would.

It would be helpful if the range stewards at the big meets would step up and say something to those groups that take too long. It's obvious within the first couple of targets who dragging butt and who's not. 'course, the one guy looked asleep at Phenix City. That doesn't help.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I have been a classroom teacher for over two decades and one thing i have learned is that you are screwed if you let kids get away with breaking rules early in the year and then try and crack down on them. You make simple to follow rules and then you enforce them from day one all day long everyday. 

Unfortunately ASA has chosen to put many rules into their rule books that they have no intentions of enforcing such as using the binos at the stake after you shoot, the funny thing is that groups will allow this all day long at very stinking shoot but if you even think about changing your sight because you forgot to set it you might feel like you can't change the sight. Change the dang sight, that rule is no different than any of the other rules that are broken over and over. Now, if I saw a guy stepping up and drawing almost every shot and then letting down and changing his sight after he gapped then I might have to speak up. I haven't ran into one person since I became a asa shooter that could gap or even tried. I run into tons of guys that stand on the stake and use their binos after the shot.

To clean up all the rules in a classroom that you have let get out of control is a huge undertaking and you are going to pizz off kids and possibly the parents, the same is true for the asa. People are used to doing as they please and ignoring some of the little rules so to get it back on track is going to upset lots of people and require a huge commitment that I have a feeling nobody is ready for from the shooters to the range officials.

It took me a couple seasons to get the asa weekend rattled around in my head and come up with how I wanted to approach it and enjoy it and be a contender at times at it. Now it is one of my favorite weekends to enjoy out of my year and I get to do it once a month for half the year.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Here is a thought:

A good guy that just has:

1. touches his trigger and plinks a arrow 7 feet out on the ground and has to take a zero.

2. First shooter steps up and shoots a strong shot and it was the wrong target just off to the side and has to take a zero

3. A guy steps up and draws back and after aiming a second or two lets down and realizes he left his sight on 48 yards from the last target and this target is only 26 yards. He leaves it there because of the rule and tries to aim accordingly and shoots a nickle.


The self centered jerk:

1. Stands there after every freaking shot even when he is the last shooter in the group and looks at his arrow to see where he hit even though it is blocking the next shooter or the entire group from going and scoring the target. He gets to do this all day long every day every tournament with no penalty.

2. They score and then they move their 3d stools to the next target even though the next group is not done and then the next group starts shooting the target that they left but they are waiting. Now you have groups that should be able to go score but they are waiting on groups to shoot that shouldn't be shooting yet so now they are waiting extra long to go score. These idiots don't get any penalty.

My solution to this kind of stuff is the range official needs to have more say and actually work the range, Especially in the lower level classes after he gets everyone on the correct shooting stake he needs to have two or three things to cover out loud before he says shoot em up. He says them at each end of the range and in the middle so everyone has a chance to hear him.

1. Guys you will get one warning if I see you spending excessive time on the shooting stake, after that you get a zero everytime I see it.

2. Guys you will receive a zero everytime I see you using your binos on the stake after you shoot your arrow with no warning.

3. Guys your group will receive one warning if you choose to leave your stake before the group in front of you leaves the stake you are going to, then each member that does it again will receive a zero each and every time I see those individuals doing it.

Mike could easily pick and choose these types of issues and during his range official meetings get them up and running and in no time I think people might clean up their little habits. If not I hear IBO could use some more shooters and I am 100% sure that regions could use some.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

The teacher in me just couldn't resist, Ha ha.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Those of you who are bothered by these matters should have the conviction to being it to the attention of a range official and/or file a protest. ASA seems pretty good about rules if there. Is a legitimate grievance)

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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

It still sounds like a good rule, and I'm the guy in the group that usually lets down the most.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> I might look through binos if I let down for no other reason than to give myself a few seconds.


I will look through my binos again if nothing else but to try to get myself back into my shot routine.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

Padgett said:


> Here is a thought:
> 
> A good guy that just has:
> 
> ...



"if you choose to leave your stake before the group in front of you leaves the stake you are going to"
if no one moves, no one moves, twenty stake of 5 people each, standing around looking at each other, been there, seen it.

"if you choose to leave your stake before the group in front of you has returned from scoring the arrows" might work better.


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