# ASA State Directors Meeting Results



## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

What about if you win at the state shoot in your class you get a free membership for the next year.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

Wow so now 3 known distance classes for the men's divisions.


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## ES21 (Jun 10, 2004)

:thumbs_up

Really like everything I read! Keep up the good work ASA!


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Won't they just call it know 40 
Boooo on the all known for open c


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Reads pretty good. Thanks for getting this out....


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## nickel shooter5 (Dec 26, 2009)

open C all known, open B 1/2 known, open A all unknown. Makes sence to me


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

nickel shooter5 said:


> open C all known, open B 1/2 known, open A all unknown. Makes sence to me


"Graduating" from a beginner and working your way towards all unknown? That is a good way to do this, rather than start everyone out fully unknown and get them all discouraged; let them work their way up!


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## bowtexan (Oct 26, 2010)

Thanks Mike. Tell Tracy to pick a good design cause I plan on winning one next year!!! Lol!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Mike is this senior hunter class 50 and above? What are the distances?

DB


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

Can k45 step down to k40 now??


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

Wow so a 60 up is going to win open c now.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

bowtexan said:


> Thanks Mike. Tell Tracy to pick a good design cause I plan on winning one next year!!! Lol!


The Texas buckles will still be custom Gist buckles designed by Tracy. Tracy is also going to design the buckles for all other ASA states that dont do their own buckles.

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## DEESHAW (Feb 5, 2008)

Sounds good!!!


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> Mike is this senior hunter class 50 and above? What are the distances?
> 
> DB


Dan

Exact same equipment, distance and rules for ASA Hunter class. 1/2 known, 1/2 unknown. They will shoot the same range as Hunter class. We tried it in Texas this year and the 50+ Hunter shooters loved it. We even had a couple of Oklahoma shooters in Sr. Hunter. We gave a state championship buckle and SOY buckle for Sr. Hunter. We had 153 competitors overall and 16 at state. 11 of the shooters were in the SOY competition. We were going to have it in Texas even if ASA did not adopt the class. They liked our results and are going to have the Sr. Hunter class at the Pro/Am level next year.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

schmel_me said:


> Wow so a 60 up is going to win open c now.


Possibly....


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## AR Archer (Apr 11, 2003)

Will it be up to each state if they want the senior hunter class?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Sounds good, but I wish Open C was still 1/2 and 1/2.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

AR Archer said:


> Will it be up to each state if they want the senior hunter class?


Yes. It will be up to each state. It will be a Pro/Am class. It was very popular this year in Texas. If a state has a small Hunter class they may choose to not divide the class although the 50 + pin shooters will like this class.

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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

sagecreek said:


> Sounds good, but I wish Open C was still 1/2 and 1/2.


The thought process is progressing from Novice to C to K45 to K50 on one career path..... or Novice to Hunter to Open B or Unlimited to Open A to Semi on another career path. 

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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

Isn't this going to put alot shooter in open B? And is the speed limit staying the same?


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## RandyD (May 28, 2007)

The changes make sense. Good Job folks!

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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

:thumb:


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## wvlongshot (Aug 11, 2008)

Thats good. K40. K45. K50.


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## msuwxguy (Mar 20, 2012)

Well after one shoot in OC guess i'll just move on up. I'm a yardage judger not a dot shooter. Really not even a fan of half and half but oh well.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Tallcatt said:


> Dan
> 
> Exact same equipment, distance and rules for ASA Hunter class. 1/2 known, 1/2 unknown. They will shoot the same range as Hunter class. We tried it in Texas this year and the 50+ Hunter shooters loved it. We even had a couple of Oklahoma shooters in Sr. Hunter. We gave a state championship buckle and SOY buckle for Sr. Hunter. We had 153 competitors overall and 16 at state. 11 of the shooters were in the SOY competition. We were going to have it in Texas even if ASA did not adopt the class. They liked our results and are going to have the Sr. Hunter class at the Pro/Am level next year.


Thanks Mike

Often wondered if they would get a known distance class for seniors in the future. Oklahoma State level we lucky to have enough seniors to fill one class. This may seperate are seniors even more. Good thing it not that far to Texas to shoot! LOL Sure miss seeing and shooting this year. 
DB


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

msuwxguy said:


> Well after one shoot in OC guess i'll just move on up. I'm a yardage judger not a dot shooter. Really not even a fan of half and half but oh well.


That's what I'm thinking too. I like to judge yardage. To me that's 3D. I can't win in Open C, but I know I'll have even less of a chance in Open B, but oh well.


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## msbigdawg (Oct 15, 2010)

OB fixin to get really big...will this make OB shoots all one day shoots like OC was this yr..?


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Really happy about the buckles. Was a lot of disappointed shooters at our state shoot.
I think we may have enough to have a sr.hunter class here as well.
Hopefully we can all promote the asa here in Virginia and get our attendance up to where it needs to be.

I am excited to see what Tracy comes up with for the buckle design. Anything will be an improvement. Maybe something with some Bling would be nice. Something really flashy!!

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

msbigdawg said:


> OB fixin to get really big..


Why would this make OB grow?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

was there any discussion regarding outlaw classes similar to those that Regions is offering?


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

I think b will be huge also and I was wondering the same thing if open B was going to have to shoot it all in one day. 
I think B will be huge because it had 116 at the classic and at least half from C will move there because they can't shoot 60 up in known 40. Besides that some like to judge yardage.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

carlosii said:


> was there any discussion regarding outlaw classes similar to those that Regions is offering?


No discussion about outlaw classes. 

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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Older, set in my ways, I don't like change, but change looks good. We talked about it yesterday at the 3D I was at. Many thought the Open C all known a good move. New designed belt buckles went over well with all that was in the discussion.
That Open C being all known was declined by only one, but pointed out was, "the shot still has to be made." 
Me and few others thought about bouncing a bit with us being Super Senior and hitting Open C once for kicks. Would be different, Super Senior all unknown and Open C all known and both 40 yard classes. Might figure out what we're doing wrong...or right


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

toypar said:


> ... at least half from C will move there because they can't shoot 60 up in known 40. Besides that some like to judge yardage.


I find it interesting that this seems to be a common viewpoint. I'll never understand why a shooter thinks he can compete at a higher level when he's not winning in the level he's at. The grass is always greener syndrome?

It isn't my intent to be offensive but I'm sure it will be taken that way. Open C shouldn't have ANY "perennial" shooters who can really compete. It is a low ($300)/instant win-out, novice class and as such, there should be a constantly evolving list of names near the top. So anyone who is there long term, is there because they haven't been at-or-too-close to the top under the current format. I don't understand how this changes that.

This +60 assumption/reaction also shows a common tendency amongst archers.... and that is to give the competitor too much credit. This leads people to try to reach outside their own abilities rather than to play their own game at the best of their ability. The highest one day score shot for Open C at the Classic was +16. For the life of me, I can't make +16x2= +60...... I also looked at the last few tournaments and the highest win was at +25.


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

At the classic bow novice was 40 up before the shoot down with fixed pins. I know it is 10 yard closer. 
Open C SIMM scores 
Classic 16


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

Classic 12 up 12x4=48
Illinois 16 up 16x4 =64
Texas 16 up 16x4 =64
Florida 14 up 14 x4 =56
I think most of them is pretty close


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

toypar said:


> Classic 12 up 12x4=48
> Illinois 16 up 16x4 =64
> Texas 16 up 16x4 =64
> Florida 14 up 14 x4 =56
> I think most of them is pretty close


I don't think using Simms scores x4 is accurate methodology. 

Regardless, if a guy shoots 40-50-60+ in OC, he isn't going to be there more than a tournament or two. If you can't beat him in OC, what makes you think you can beat him in OB or K45 or whatever class at the next one?


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Only changes that I would like to see is

IMPROVE target quality....Geez Mackenzie has gotten slack. 

clear up the rule on target rebound, robin hood ,where arrow lands etc....I thought it was clear but apparently not


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

I don't think I can beat him in open C all known but I think I can in unknown. I can't see like a hawk like some can.


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## mathews-nut (Feb 2, 2006)

Tony is right I only shot a few shoots in open C and have shot some high simms course scores and they dont translate to high scores in Open C or B. The High 40 in Texas of 16 up was mine. I didnt even win the shoot I got second. And this weekend was my first in open B and I shot 14 up and I got smoked 30 up won.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

J Whittington said:


> clear up the rule on target rebound, robin hood ,where arrow lands etc....I thought it was clear but apparently not


Agreed on the Delta/McK for sure.

I thought the rules were clear on rebounds, robin hoods, etc too. What's missing?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

toypar said:


> I don't think I can beat him in open C all known but I think I can in unknown. I can't see like a hawk like some can.


That's cool. But I have to ask, if you're a strong judger, are you a novice? If you're a strong judger, why not go where it can really set you apart?....at least to Open A.

The half and half classes have been won on the known day for quite a while. Each shooter I talk to has a "hang on" mentality on the unknown day and a "win it here" mentality on the known day.......when the max is 40 yards, a man doesn't have to judge real well to "hang on". In other words, half and half classes are still a shooter's game....not a judger's.


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

Tallcatt said:


> The Texas buckles will still be custom Gist buckles designed by Tracy. Tracy is also going to design the buckles for all other ASA states that dont do their own buckles.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


Bless her!!!!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> I don't think using Simms scores x4 is accurate methodology.
> 
> Regardless, if a guy shoots 40-50-60+ in OC, he isn't going to be there more than a tournament or two. If you can't beat him in OC, what makes you think you can beat him in OB or K45 or whatever class at the next one?
> 
> ...


Here is some things to think abuot....a person shooting a so called 40/50/60 up....is in no way a novice shooter to begining with.....So, what does that tell you about them????


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## mathews-nut (Feb 2, 2006)

Although open C is a so called novice class there has been nothing novice about it in my experience. I know its not as tough as the higher classes but its tough to win for sure.


bhtr3d said:


> Here is some things to think abuot....a person shooting a so called 40/50/60 up....is in no way a novice shooter to begining with.....So, what does that tell you about them????


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

So what is the difference in Opne C and Known 45 now?


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Bo Bob said:


> So what is the difference in Opne C and Known 45 now?


Good question.

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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

xforce girl said:


> good question.
> 
> Sent from my droid x2 using tapatalk 2


5 yards max.

There is a natural progression that a shooter can take :
pins:
bow novice 30 yards all known
hunter 30 yards half unknown and half known
unlimited 45 yards all unknown 

moveable sights:
open c 40 yards all known

(known path) OR unknown path
known 45 - all known open B half unknown half known
known 50 - all known open A all unknown

SEMI PRO
PRO 

now of course there are some cross ways by where someone can go but i would have to draw a chart to post that....

But, this give a basic idea....if you wish to know more....please ask .


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

I was hoping for a womens class that would give us all a 220 on the first day then the second day and have it all unknown out to 75 yards!!! HA.....I can't even shoot a competitve score anymore, who am I kidding???


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> 5 yards max.
> 
> There is a natural progression that a shooter can take :
> pins:
> ...


I still don't see the need for an Open C then. Open B I can see with half known and half unknown. If you are wishing to "progress" to Open A why go to a whole known class at all.
Also not sure how going from unlimited at a 45 yard max with pins to anything with known distance on the way to Open A is desired.
I have been told the difference for K45 and K50 is basically pro vs joe, but I don't see the difference with Open C vs K45


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Bo Bob said:


> I still don't see the need for an Open C then. Open B I can see with half known and half unknown. If you are wishing to "progress" to Open A why go to a whole known class at all.
> Also not sure how going from unlimited at a 45 yard max with pins to anything with known distance on the way to Open A is desired.
> I have been told the difference for K45 and K50 is basically pro vs joe, but I don't see the difference with Open C vs K45


Open C 40 yards Known, Known 45, Known 50. Look at past numbers. Known 45 last year was 105 and this year 121. Remember until this past year Open C at state level was half unknown and half known and a lot of other classes were the same way, 50/50.
So just sort of arranging much in order, maybe...


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

J Whittington said:


> Only changes that I would like to see is
> 
> IMPROVE target quality....Geez Mackenzie has gotten slack.
> 
> clear up the rule on target rebound, robin hood ,where arrow lands etc....I thought it was clear but apparently not


Call me crazy, but the rule is crystal clear to me.........now how individual groups decide to implement the rules.....well......



tmorelli said:


> Agreed on the Delta/McK for sure.
> 
> I thought the rules were clear on rebounds, robin hoods, etc too. What's missing?


Yup.........



bhtr3d said:


> Here is some things to think abuot....a person shooting a so called 40/50/60 up....is in no way a novice shooter to begining with.....So, what does that tell you about them????


It says what I have said all along....they ain't in the right class to begin with.....



Bo Bob said:


> So what is the difference in Opne C and Known 45 now?


5 yards



Bo Bob said:


> I still don't see the need for an Open C then. Open B I can see with half known and half unknown. If you are wishing to "progress" to Open A why go to a whole known class at all.
> Also not sure how going from unlimited at a 45 yard max with pins to anything with known distance on the way to Open A is desired.
> I have been told the difference for K45 and K50 is basically pro vs joe, but I don't see the difference with Open C vs K45


The difference between 45 and 50 is not just pro v joe, it is 5 yards.

Having Open C all known provides a natural progression for folks.

Open C is, in theory, a "novice class"....thus the reason for the autoomatic win-out and no shooter of the year. It is an introductory class for folks to shoot open gear.

From there they have a choice, go the half/half route to eventually get to all unknown (Open B and then Open A), or go the all known route to 45 and then 50.

It makes perfect sense to me.

As for Unlimited, I do not think Open C is even an option for those guys. I think they could go to Open B or higher. There is nothing that says they must go to Open B though, they could go to A, Semi or higher.............Luke Parker did just that, Unlimited, Open A, semi, and then Open Pro. They do not have to go to a class with known yardage if they do not want to. The top guys, or any of the guys for that matter, in Unlimited are experienced archers and would fit right in on the Open A range.


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

Unlimited is a pins class...Some folks prefer pins over scope...Far as I know there is still no win out in Unlimited so they can hang out there forever if they want...It's a small class anyway but some awesome shooting folks.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

absolutecool said:


> Unlimited is a pins class...Some folks prefer pins over scope...Far as I know there is still no win out in Unlimited so they can hang out there forever if they want...It's a small class anyway but some awesome shooting folks.


I think you are correct that they can stay there forever. What I have never been clear on is how the rules about $2500 in career winnings affects them, or if it even does.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

reylamb said:


> .....rules about ...... career winnings.


not enforced anywhere to my knowledge........


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

I guess I'm looking at it as combining Open C and K45 to make one larger class.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Bo Bob said:


> I guess I'm looking at it as combining Open C and K45 to make one larger class.


K45 class is plenty large enough now. I feel having a K40 will be a good start for those just entering ASA shoots.
DB


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Originally Posted by bhtr3d 
Here is some things to think abuot....a person shooting a so called 40/50/60 up....is in no way a novice shooter to begining with.....So, what does that tell you about them????
It says what I have said all along....they ain't in the right class to begin with.....



So, TM.....to tell us what class you should be in......Well, ok since your from OKieLand...i'll be nice......Since your not from Kansas....where everything blows ...and well Texas...where everything is steerz and queersz(as the saying goes. i had to modify it a little


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

Bo Bob said:


> I guess I'm looking at it as combining Open C and K45 to make one larger class.


K45 is congested enough! lol

Although I will say The Classic was a nice pace for K45, we didn't have to wait until Sunday and even then it moved really well. I can see guys not winning in K45 then just moving back to Open C after two years and laying the smack down on em'. 5 yards is a big difference in any class! lol


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> So, TM.....to tell us what class you should be in.....


What? I think I'm approximately where I belong for the time being. I didn't even come close to dominating k50 this year.

If you're talking about last year, I came back from a 15 year layoff (when I quit I was a young adult shooter) and shot the Classic in K45 in 2011. Then stayed in K45 for 2012. I didn't figure the game out until after TX. Then I finished the season well. 

This year I've absolutely been relearning again since I got booted to K50 and the 14's taken away. 

Am I supposed to apologize for starting back in k45 and being there for one season when I could've started in Novice or Open C and milked the system for all it had? In hindsight, I probably should have. I got word that ASA won't allow me to shoot anything below Semi now.... and I haven't judged since 1996. How is that reasonable? I can't even play in Open A while working on my judging. 

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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> What? I think I'm approximately where I belong for the time being. I didn't even come close to dominating k50 this year.
> 
> If you're talking about last year, I came back from a 15 year layoff (when I quit I was a young adult shooter) and shot the Classic in K45 in 2011. Then stayed in K45 for 2012. I didn't figure the game out until after TX. Then I finished the season well.
> 
> ...


LMAO this has nothing to do about shooting......I was being nice for you living in Okieland....LOL ya reading too deep into it.....LMAO..

But to answer you question about shooting ""A"" ...you nave to submit a letter to the shooting committee, they are the ones that actually control the power about that. They will look to see what you've shot from the start....and see that you had a major shooting gap..... If you looking to shoot ""A"" I really suggest doing that Tony.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> 5 yards max.
> 
> There is a natural progression that a shooter can take :
> pins:
> ...


i thought hunter was 40 yards.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

carlosii said:


> i thought hunter was 40 yards.


It is.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

And IMO, they should have left Open C 1/2 and 1/2. It's easier to start judging yardage at 40 instead of 45.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Bo Bob said:


> So what is the difference in Opne C and Known 45 now?





XForce Girl said:


> Good question.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


The top K45 archers are generally much more skilled archers than the Open C guys and K45 is over 10% longer than Open C. K40, I mean Open C, is a "novice" class. 
There is no longer a "novice" unknown distance class. I think Open C should have been left as a half and half novice class serving both K45 and Open B. Now that Open C is an "all known" class it should have a 45 yard max.



tmorelli said:


> What? I think I'm approximately where I belong for the time being. I didn't even come close to dominating k50 this year.
> 
> If you're talking about last year, I came back from a 15 year layoff (when I quit I was a young adult shooter) and shot the Classic in K45 in 2011. Then stayed in K45 for 2012. I didn't figure the game out until after TX. Then I finished the season well.
> 
> ...


That is a weakness of the current "ladder" of classes. The Known classes are in a different "division" from the Unknown classes. I doubt any of the K50 guys could move to Open A and tear it up straight out of the gate. Of course the exception would be folks that moved from say semi-pro to K50 then on to Open A. At the same time not all the Semi-Pro's could move to K50 and be a shoo-in to win every tournament. 

The ASA should have an avenue for a shooter to apply for a "waiver" to move from one class to another. A good example would be a K50 archer wanting to move to the UnKnown side of the tracks or an Open A archer that finishes in the back of the pack wanting to move to K45. I don't think K50 archers should be _required_ to go "pro". In my case, next year I can shoot K50, Open A (or higher) or Senior Open. Whatever I do I have a serious amount of improving to do to get to where I am capable of finishing in the top half of either Senior Open or K50.

Personally, I think making Open C all Known is a mistake and will ultimately change the way archers move through the ASA classes. We now have MORE known distance "Open" classes than Unknown distance amateur open classes.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Well Andy went from K50 to Semi and had a pretty good showing.

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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Garceau said:


> Well Andy went from K50 to Semi and had a pretty good showing.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


I'm not saying it can't be done. Where did Andy shoot before K50?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Garceau said:


> Well Andy went from K50 to Semi and had a pretty good showing.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Andy was in Open A in 03, Semi from 04-08, K50 09-12, and back in Semi this year. 

Wonder if he'll go to Pro or K50 next year?

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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> Andy was in Open A in 03, Semi from 04-08, K50 09-12, and back in Semi this year.
> 
> Wonder if he'll go to Pro or K50 next year?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


So he is an experienced yardage guesser with a thorough back ground in shooting the higher classes. No surprise he handled going from K50 to Semi but not a good example of someone that came all the way through the Known classes and moved to Semi..........


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> LMAO this has nothing to do about shooting......I was being nice for you living in Okieland....LOL ya reading too deep into it.....LMAO..
> 
> But to answer you question about shooting ""A"" ...you nave to submit a letter to the shooting committee, they are the ones that actually control the power about that. They will look to see what you've shot from the start....and see that you had a major shooting gap..... If you looking to shoot ""A"" I really suggest doing that Tony.


Cool.

....Just telling you what Dee told me when I asked him to review my situation. Who else should I address a letter to?

Do I intend to move? Well transitioning to unknown was always my intent. The truth is that I've found it impossible to really work on my judging.... especially while trying to win at the known game. Now, if k50 shows growth and develops into what I think it will, I have no need to judge. 

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> So he is an experienced yardage guesser with a thorough back ground in shooting the higher classes. No surprise he handled going from K50 to Semi but not a good example of someone that came all the way through the Known classes and moved to Semi..........


Andy won a lot of money in semi before going to k50. 


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

tmorelli said:


> Andy was in Open A in 03, Semi from 04-08, K50 09-12, and back in Semi this year.
> 
> Wonder if he'll go to Pro or K50 next year?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Pro....he is pretty excited about that.

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Garceau said:


> Pro....he is pretty excited about that.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


I'm excited for him. He'll do well. 

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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

reylamb said:


> I think you are correct that they can stay there forever. What I have never been clear on is how the rules about $2500 in career winnings affects them, or if it even does.


I didn't see the $2500, but saw the $5000.00 in career earnings. The other part, $2,000.00, was for bows, equipment, cash or paid whatever by sponsors.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> We now have MORE known distance "Open" classes than Unknown distance amateur open classes.


That is kinda my point Kent. I just don't see why C and 45 can't be combined. Aleast at the state level, so many classes with just a couple shooters in it (I was the only unlimited shooter in the VA state shoot). I know what I'm saying with C and 45 won't help the unlimited but we have so many classes that we spread our few shooters (ATLEAST in VA) out to a few per class. Our Hunter class and Open A didn't even have enough shooters in them to award a 2nd place for.

.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

STRICNINE said:


> K45 is congested enough! lol
> 
> Although I will say The Classic was a nice pace for K45, we didn't have to wait until Sunday and even then it moved really well. I can see guys not winning in K45 then just moving back to Open C after two years and laying the smack down on em'. 5 yards is a big difference in any class! lol


I dont think moving back to Open C is an option........at least not by my interpretations of the rules.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

carlosii said:


> i thought hunter was 40 yards.


Its called....typing on more than 1 screen. ...suppose to be working. .......


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

SonnyThomas said:


> I didn't see the $2500, but saw the $5000.00 in career earnings. The other part, $2,000.00, was for bows, equipment, cash or paid whatever by sponsors.


You are correct, my memory is not remembering very well these days......


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

tmorelli said:


> I'm excited for him. He'll do well.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


We all are. Was great shooting with him all year at home. He really shot awesome all season.


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

Bo Bob said:


> So what is the difference in Opne C and Known 45 now?


Well for starters they spell open different then you do


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

EROS said:


> Well for starters they spell open different then you do


This coming from the Senior Open runner up in the Appomattox County spelling bee contest. John was awarded second place in the one man competition.:teeth:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

ha ha ha ha....

In regards to Open C/ K45/ Open B distances....although the max yards are only 5 yards more.

Having shot all 3 classes I will say in Open B and K45 the Avg shot is considerably further than than 5 yds further than C - course layouts a bit tougher etc.....

The known days in Open B usually share a course with K45 so they are exact.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Bo Bob said:


> That is kinda my point Kent. I just don't see why C and 45 can't be combined. Aleast at the state level, so many classes with just a couple shooters in it (I was the only unlimited shooter in the VA state shoot). I know what I'm saying with C and 45 won't help the unlimited but we have so many classes that we spread our few shooters (ATLEAST in VA) out to a few per class. Our Hunter class and Open A didn't even have enough shooters in them to award a 2nd place for.
> 
> .


At the state level, at least in Va, combining K40 (formerly Open C) and K45 makes perfect sense. I really think Open C should have been left as half known and half unknown. Being half and half made it a true feeder class to both Open B and K45. Now it will be ONLY an entry level Known class feeding K45 and K50. Open B has always been light years ahead of Open C as far as competition. Now it will be an even bigger leap from K40 (formerly Open C) to Open B making it even tougher for folks to move into unknown distance 3D......... Hey, but at least now they can combine WK40 and MK40 ranges.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> ............ making it even tougher for folks to move into unknown distance 3D........


The future of this game is known distance. I've said my piece before, no need to say it again. Inside of 10 years, judging will be looked at as nostalgia.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> The future of this game is known distance. I've said my piece before, no need to say it again. Inside of 10 years, judging will be looked at as nostalgia.


I've never disagreed. It is MUCH easier to play the game not having to be a yardage guesser. I have to admit I never was a great yardage guesser. I seriously admire the guys that do it well especially those that are human range finders AND human Hooter Shooters!!!


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

It will certainly bring in more spot shooters.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

STRICNINE said:


> It will certainly bring in more spot shooters.


It hasn't brought in many yet. I don't meet many dot shooters who have much interest in shooting rubber deer to be honest.

There is a rumor that Hoyt is going to put pro contingency on K50 next year. Supposedly ASA is going to call it a Known Pro class and bump the entry fee if Hoyt takes the initiative. I assume at least one other manufacturer will follow suit. While I think it's what needs to happen eventually, in the short term I think it will kill K50. The vast majority of us pay our own entry fees, travel expenses and buy our own gear. A $275? entry fee will be more than most want to stomach. Now what will happen is that several Open pro's will jump to K50 and you'll see a few more sponsored "dot shooters" show up.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

T-Mo.....Im going to agree with you. I heard all the same thing this weekend. I heard it from several sources and a few I felt were reliable enough to listen to. Same ones that told me what is going to happen with some of the Pro's next year as well. I heard it on the ranges and in circles.

If K50 goes to a 275 class I think it will fizzle out very quickly - even with the money pumped in I think it needs to remain at the same price it is, the goal is to get more shooters - not alienate those that make up the majority of the class. Bring in the pro dot shooters if need be, bring in everyone you can....but dont cut out the guys that have to be there.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> It hasn't brought in many yet. I don't meet many dot shooters who have much interest in shooting rubber deer to be honest.
> 
> There is a rumor that Hoyt is going to put pro contingency on K50 next year. Supposedly ASA is going to call it a Known Pro class and bump the entry fee if Hoyt takes the initiative. I assume at least one other manufacturer will follow suit. While I think it's what needs to happen eventually, in the short term I think it will kill K50. The vast majority of us pay our own entry fees, travel expenses and buy our own gear. A $275? entry fee will be more than most want to stomach. Now what will happen is that several Open pro's will jump to K50 and you'll see a few more sponsored "dot shooters" show up.


It will certainly change the flavor of K50. I for one won't even think about dropping $275 just to get pounded. Let us not forget that if K50 is a Pro class then you must shoot Pro in the IBO and the NFAA including state shoots. If I was going to shoot "pro" it would be in a Senior class! 42 archers shot in Open Pro at the Classic. Making K50 "pro" will draw down that number. I _currently _don't see any benefit to making K50 a Pro class. I dare say 2 current or soon to be K50 guys will bale out for every one new "pro" that signs on to shoot K50. Won't surprise me if there is one day a "Known Pro" class _created _but it won't replace what we know currently as "K50"...... K40, K45, K50 then Known Pro makes sense.

Of course if Hoyt/Easton is going to put money into K50 and pressure their Pro spot shooters (Reo, Logan, Jesse, Rodger, Shane Wills and so on, also Hoyt has many European spot shooters) to attend ASA shoots then all bets are off. Maybe Mathews is planning to pressure their major spot shooters to play K50. You know the spot shooters are jealous of the popularity of the ASA's top guns. Still I don't see making K50 "pro" ultimately being beneficial for the ASA. Unless some outside player(s) have a MAJOR influence. Even then I don't see it helping the ASA increase or grow overall attendance. Making K50 "pro" will call for creating another "Known" distance class.


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

K60? lol


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> It will certainly change the flavor of K50. I for one won't even think about dropping $275 just to get pounded. Let us not forget that if K50 is a Pro class then you must shoot Pro in the IBO and the NFAA including state shoots. If I was going to shoot "pro" it would be in a Senior class! 42 archers shot in Open Pro at the Classic. Making K50 "pro" will draw down that number. I _currently _don't see any benefit to making K50 a Pro class. I dare say 2 current or soon to be K50 guys will bale out for every one new "pro" that signs on to shoot K50. Won't surprise me if there is one day a "Known Pro" class _created _but it won't replace what we know currently as "K50"...... K40, K45, K50 then Known Pro makes sense.
> 
> Of course if Hoyt/Easton is going to put money into K50 and pressure their Pro spot shooters (Reo, Logan, Jesse, Rodger, Shane Wills and so on, also Hoyt has many European spot shooters) to attend ASA shoots then all bets are off. Maybe Mathews is planning to pressure their major spot shooters to play K50. You know the spot shooters are jealous of the popularity of the ASA's top guns. Still I don't see making K50 "pro" ultimately being beneficial for the ASA. Unless some outside player(s) have a MAJOR influence. Even then I don't see it helping the ASA increase or grow overall attendance. Making K50 "pro" will call for creating another "Known" distance class.



I love how you all guys speculate what is going to happen.....Even, things that people feel that was said.... I don't know if I should hold my peace or should spill some beans...... I guess that will be a stay tune till.....


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> I love how you all guys speculate what is going to happen.....Even, things that people feel that was said.... I don't know if I should hold my peace or should spill some beans...... I guess that will be a stay tune till.....


Of course we speculate. In the lack of good information and in the presence of interest/curiousity, what else is there to do? Lose interest?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> I love how you all guys speculate what is going to happen.....Even, things that people feel that was said.... I don't know if I should hold my peace or should spill some beans...... I guess that will be a stay tune till.....


Your point? Idle conversation and discussing thoughts or ideas is NOT a bad thing. Even if you "spilled some beans" it would not or rather shouldn't stop people from talking/discussing. I have heard "inside scoop" before and it turned out to be not any more accurate than rumors. In fact quite frequently some rumors are more accurate than what "spokesmen" initially bring forth.




tmorelli said:


> Of course we speculate. In the lack of good information and in the presence of interest/curiousity, what else is there to do? Lose interest?


EXACTLY!!!! Would it be a good thing to let the ASA die each fall/winter while we all hunt and shoot indoor spots? Seriously doubt it......


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> Of course we speculate. In the lack of good information and in the presence of interest/curiousity, what else is there to do? Lose interest?


I don't know.....shoot I just got a whatever from my immediate boss about....someone doing a work stuff with thier own auto ....and not being on the clock for one......i stated we are a public traded company...we can't be doing these mom and pop /private stuff anymore..... if she gets into an accident....the company responsible....i get oh how do you know the rules/laws....LOL ...I said...I KNOW all too WELL about those laws...LOL


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

you completely lost me with that one.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> you completely lost me with that one.


the way i understand it his mother, or was it his dad, got traded i think to the texas rangers, but since they didn't have a clock they didn't make it to work on time and then they had an accident because of the nitrous setup on their own auto and that was the company's fault...

or something like that.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

carlosii said:


> the way i understand it his mother, or was it his dad, got traded i think to the texas rangers, but since they didn't have a clock they didn't make it to work on time and then they had an accident because of the nitrous setup on their own auto and that was the company's fault...
> 
> or something like that.


Was that at band camp last summer?


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

Bo Bob said:


> This coming from the Senior Open runner up in the Appomattox County spelling bee contest. John was awarded second place in the one man competition.:teeth:


Not bad from the man who is the only one shooting in the unlimited class. :boink::boink:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> Was that at band camp last summer?


why yes, i do believe it was.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

EROS said:


> Not bad from the man who is the only one shooting in the unlimited class. :boink::boink:[/
> 
> :shade:


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

EROS said:


> Not bad from the man who is the only one shooting in the unlimited class. :boink::boink:





Bo Bob said:


> EROS said:
> 
> 
> > Not bad from the man who is the only one shooting in the unlimited class. :boink::boink:[/
> ...


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> Bo Bob said:
> 
> 
> > :nono: You guys should be ashamed! Grown men poking each other in public!!! :no:
> ...


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

This is a on going thing. If you can't win with your shoot ability or if you fall down we shoot with plenty of good people that will keep you down.


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## hophunt (Aug 21, 2007)

Tallcatt said:


> 1. Change of venue from West Monroe, La. to Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Ranges have been lost at West Monroe due to clear cutting of timber.


Any word on where in Tuscaloosa the shoot site will be?


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

hophunt said:


> Any word on where in Tuscaloosa the shoot site will be?


That was not told.....but wait till first of the week ill see if I can get that


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## hophunt (Aug 21, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> That was not told.....but wait till first of the week ill see if I can get that


Thank you. Want to start making reservations, but I know there are some areas in Tuscaloosa you do not want to stay.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

hophunt said:


> Thank you. Want to start making reservations, but I know there are some areas in Tuscaloosa you do not want to stay.


Oh great...


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## elkhunter (Jun 7, 2002)

Carlos --- maybe its time for you to get your own "used mobile motel" !!!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

hophunt said:


> Thank you. Want to start making reservations, but I know there are some areas in Tuscaloosa you do not want to stay.


Have to remember not to tell them I'm not a gator nation....or I might be given those places to stay


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