# Major changes in FITA Rules approved during Congress in Ulsan



## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

Vittorio,
Nothing about changing from 40 seconds to 30 seconds/arrow?


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## Rich (Sep 9, 2002)

Thanks for the update.
Interesting is the change for the Cadet and Junior age requirements.


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## iharangozo94 (Feb 27, 2009)

cadets until 17 and juniors until 20 ?!?! thats crazy in a good and bad way.

what's the new 50 meter target going to look like?


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## iharangozo94 (Feb 27, 2009)

do you shoot through the year of your 17th birthday or up to the year?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Vittorio said:


> From FITA web site:
> 
> http://www.archery.org/content.asp?id=3318&me_id=2294&cnt_id=4190





> The Congress also sent a clear message to give more identity to the compound division and differentiate their competitions. Compound means ultimate accuracy and the athletes will be able to prove it with the hit-miss scoring system. They will shoot at 50 metres with a very challenging hit zone.


Ah, the dumbing down of archery to make it more "exciting" or TV friendly, or what not. I think Vittorio has already done a rather effective job of showing why hit and miss is a bad idea that makes scoring less granular...


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## NockOn (Feb 24, 2003)

I think the new hit/miss target is a yellow dot over black background. I would like to know what the diameter of the dot will be?

Cheers,


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

Rich said:


> Thanks for the update.
> Interesting is the change for the Cadet and Junior age requirements.


At first glance, I like the JR and Cadet thing. Am I missing something?


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## [email protected] (Jan 19, 2006)

Vittorio said:


> From FITA web site:
> 
> http://www.archery.org/content.asp?id=3318&me_id=2294&cnt_id=4190


Well, this will be a very interesting system to play with


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## Landed in AZ (May 11, 2008)

iharangozo94 said:


> do you shoot through the year of your 17th birthday or up to the year?


It is the same as it is now...So rather then through the year of your 16th birthday, it is through the year of your 17th birthday. So for example, Kiley will be 17 in January, so this makes her a cadet through the end of next year. 5th year cadet???

This won't affect the elite JOAD clubs being formed around the US as much as it will the grassroots JOAD also being built. It is a great move for those in that category. It is sometimes too much for a kid to move from 70 meters to 90 meters. Poundage is a huge factor there and many teen boys are still growing at that age (many girls are already done growing) and to add enough lbs to their bow to allow 90 meters can cause injuries I would think.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I wonder what will this do to JR USAT and DT. and the collegiate division. If cadet division expands perhaps more cadets ought to be on JR USAT. ISU (Shooting) is through 20th year for juniors IIRC (I recall being 20 when I won national juniors:wink


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Jim C said:


> I wonder what will this do to JR USAT and DT. and the collegiate division. If cadet division expands perhaps more cadets ought to be on JR USAT. ISU (Shooting) is through 20th year for juniors IIRC (I recall being 20 when I won national juniors:wink


Sounds like it might, but the first thing I think of is funding. If you recall, JDT operates on it's own donations, so funding would also have to increase some how. Also, the take I am getting is that finding room for the archers can be a task at the OTC some times. Perhaps it's only dificult at certain times of the year though (the worst was during the ramp up to the Olympics, of course). 

JR USAT could be an interesting thing to watch over the coming months.


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

Like I said, at first glance, I think it's cool. 

We lose too many kids at that JR/SR jump because they get frustrated and have other exciting things happening in life. So if something is going to go away to make room for the new life experiences... it tends to be shooting. If they have incentive to hold on for 2 more years to be the big fish as a JR while transitioning into college and SR ranks... maybe we can keep them occupied and excited about archery until they learn to balance the "grown-up" stuff and the sport.


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

sundevilarchery said:


> Like I said, at first glance, I think it's cool.
> 
> We lose too many kids at that JR/SR jump because they get frustrated and have other exciting things happening in life. So if something is going to go away to make room for the new life experiences... it tends to be shooting. If they have incentive to hold on for 2 more years to be the big fish as a JR while transitioning into college and SR ranks... maybe we can keep them occupied and excited about archery until they learn to balance the "grown-up" stuff and the sport.


My question right now would be how many of those archers would this get back into JR class (my guess is none)? Will there be Colegiate or SR's moving back down to JR? I can tell you for sure that the pre-registration dates for JOAD Nationals just got moved up a bit. If you're planning on going, when it comes up, keep that in mind. A whole TON of unknowns just got thrown into our tournament. Good thing we've got the space


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## JovenPadaguan (Dec 6, 2004)

Here is my post about the new format test that FITA did in Madrid last year
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=775975

I personally like a lot the idea of shooting at 50m to smaller targets.

I wonder which is the future of the FITA and 2x70m rounds for compound...


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## AggieX10 (Mar 29, 2004)

Ummm... is everyone missing that there are CHANGING THE WHOLE SYSTEM FOR THE ELIMINATIONS?!? 

Is the system broken now? Or what's the deal? 50M hit/miss target?? 3 sets to win? I'm very confused at how this is good for the compound division... Can't say that I'm a fan of this system idea... we'll see how it works in practice I suppose....

ukey:


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## iharangozo94 (Feb 27, 2009)

o.. so the hit miss 50m is only for eliminations not for the 1440 FITA


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

One nice thing about the new rule is that everyone will have equal opportunity for Jr. Worlds. If Worlds are every other year (in even years), then having 3-year age groups means that kids born in even years will be at the top of their age group either as a Cadet or as a Junior. Previously, those born in odd years always had the advantage.


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

I like the sets thing idea, could contribute to archery being more attractive to watch.
So, what is the size of the HIT part of the hit/miss target?


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2009)

I would really curious to see what countries actually thought this was a great idea????

now you could have the highest score and not win with the new set system as well as dumbing it down to a potential 9 arrow match or up to a 15 arrow match, this should make for some nice tournamnent flow

and with the hit miss target you could have 2 arrow matches and win......just brilliant


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Sean McKenty said:


> I would really curious to see what countries actually thought this was a great idea????
> 
> now you could have the highest score and not win with the new set system as well as dumbing it down to a potential 9 arrow match or up to a 15 arrow match, this should make for some nice tournamnent flow
> 
> and with the hit miss target you could have 2 arrow matches and win......just brilliant


Well, the trials will definitely show how it works in real situations.
I'm feeling that when there are 32 or 64 archers on the line, the SET system could water-down the shoot off stage. But, say, in the quarterfinals, it can definitely spice up the shoot off.


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## lcv (Sep 7, 2004)

*Another Thought*

I think when it gets down to the last 16 guys or so there will be shootoffs in every end with some going three arrows. Top compounders don't miss many at 50 meters so unless the dot is very small, plan on three arrow shootoffs most every end (set) and measuring the third arrow. All this takes time which kind of defeats the TV part of the equation. I can see 16 shooters, eight matches and 5-6 shootoffs per end, which requires judges for each one and time for each one. I may be wrong but I don't think things will be moving along too fast. Example: Jesse shoots 3 hits Braden shoots three hits. They both hit their first shoot off arrow, they both hit their second shootoff arrow, they both hit their third shootoff arrow. Now you measure closest to center for the last arrow. Say Braden wins. Now you would go on to the next end of the four ends. How long has it taken just to decide the first set of three arrows. Now I may be completely wrong on what I am saying as I have not seen this in practice and as long as shooters are at two levels of skill there should be clear winners, but when it gets to the best shooters of which there are many, things could bog down.


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Do I read this right? Now the OR rounds have been changed? This is before the compound writing, so I'm assuming it applies to the recurve archers?



> As of 1 April 2010, archers will have to win three sets to win their matches. Each end of three arrows will count as a set. Of course, tie-breaks, as they occur, may still be required!


How does this play out in scores? Will some matches end with 3 matches? Total score possible would then be 90 instead of 120. That's not going to make score keeping easy at all.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2009)

Dado said:


> Well, the trials will definitely show how it works in real situations.
> I'm feeling that when there are 32 or 64 archers on the line, the SET system could water-down the shoot off stage. But, say, in the quarterfinals, it can definitely spice up the shoot off.


with 64 or 3 how could it possibly spice it up????

you now have a system were you could shoot an in the dirt and score the same as a person that misses by 1mm, this is called spicing it up??????

you now have a system were you could out shoot your opponent and lose, this is called spicing it up?????, this like with the current system were you could shoot a 119 and lose but see others advance with 112, this did wonders for tv coverage didn,t it

Fita has now dumbed down archery to the point were it is now little more than a novelty crap shoot, all for the sake of TV coverage at the expense of the archers.



I said it before and will say it again until we are shooting at each other you never wide spread TV coverage or sponsors, change the round all you want you are still watching paint dry.


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## bow slayer (Apr 2, 2007)

Dado said:


> I like the sets thing idea, could contribute to archery being more attractive to watch.
> So, what is the size of the HIT part of the hit/miss target?


from what my friends and i have gathered from various sources, this "hit or miss" target was used at the university games. the 9 an 10 ring are still yellow, but the 1-8 ring is red. red scores 0, yellow scores 1. possible total of 24. as for size, we could only take guesses. Personally, i think it will be 80cm for cadet, 60cm for junior and senior men.


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

A letter from Denise Parker about the FITA changes is now on the USA Archery website... 

http://www.usarchery.org/blog/post/1199

Sounds like they're planning to make a lot of decisions at the November board meeting.


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## [email protected] (Jan 19, 2006)

bow slayer said:


> from what my friends and i have gathered from various sources, this "hit or miss" target was used at the university games. the 9 an 10 ring are still yellow, but the 1-8 ring is red. red scores 0, yellow scores 1. possible total of 24. as for size, we could only take guesses. Personally, i think it will be 80cm for cadet, 60cm for junior and senior men.


Looking at the test event thread from last year, it appears the hit/miss is significantly smaller than what we've seen at the university games.


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## urabus (May 22, 2006)

Dado said:


> I like the sets thing idea, could contribute to archery being more attractive to watch.
> So, what is the size of the HIT part of the hit/miss target?


iirc, 10cm


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Sean McKenty said:


> with 64 or 3 how could it possibly spice it up????
> 
> you now have a system were you could shoot an in the dirt and score the same as a person that misses by 1mm, this is called spicing it up??????
> 
> ...


You could be right, but at the top level (if you haven't seen clips of recent shoot-offs) the winner is usually the one who drops less 10s. So, considering archers themselves - this will affect hardly anything in the shootoffs, while on the other hand it may become more interesting for the TV stations to cover and viewers to watch. Take the most popular sport in the world for example: SOCCER - most of viewers can't tell a good team play from a bad one. Most of them don't even care, and in soccer nowadays TEAM PLAY is what makes them win. On the other hand viewers want to see the good stuff that came out as a result of mostly team play (goals, shots at the goal, free kicks, penalties, etc). Or, they prefer to watch individual skills. Even the audience watching the games in stadiums pretty much awaits the big things, the instant/simple efforts... The average viewer likes watching simplified highlights. He/she does not understand (nor do they want to) the strategy set by coaches behind the game that is on in front of them.
Also, if this "beginning of the greater division" between compound and recurve proves to be successful, then it can set foot for compounds to become more and more different and thus closer and closer to the olympics.

So far, too early to tell anything for sure.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

No matter how they try, they will never make archery a spectator sport that can command the sort of sponsorhip and spectator dollars as say tennis, basketball, football, or even stuff that we consider "minor sports" in the USA such as table tennis or track.

What we risk in an effort to appeal to TV dollars is *******izing the sport and the results.

I can see it now-archery like the tournament in ROBIN HOOD MEN IN TIGHTS

ONE SHOT.

ALL OF YOU WHO HIT THE MIDDLE CAN STAY--THE REST OF YOU BUGGER OFF!!!!


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## AggieX10 (Mar 29, 2004)

The Hit/Miss target is in the World University Archery Championships as the TEAM even target. It is a 122 cm face with the yellow (10,9) area as the 'hit' and anything outside that, even in the dirt, is a miss. It's a good concept for the University Games with younger shooters and gives teams that might have a member who shoots 5-6's a chance to compete with teams who only shoot 8's.

However, in championship events for the Sr. Compound division, this target obviously would not work. This has been discussed by FITA for sometime as to how this target can be used in FITA event other than the Collegiate Division. The target had to be smaller in the compound division.

I still don't get the 50 meter hit/miss on the yellow of a 60 cm face... but we'll see how it goes, especially in the wind... :sad:


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2009)

Dado said:


> You could be right, but at the top level (if you haven't seen clips of recent shoot-offs) the winner is usually the one who drops less 10s. So, considering archers themselves - this will affect hardly anything in the shootoffs, while on the other hand it may become more interesting for the TV stations to cover and viewers to watch. Take the most popular sport in the world for example: SOCCER - most of viewers can't tell a good team play from a bad one. Most of them don't even care, and in soccer nowadays TEAM PLAY is what makes them win. On the other hand viewers want to see the good stuff that came out as a result of mostly team play (goals, shots at the goal, free kicks, penalties, etc). Or, they prefer to watch individual skills. Even the audience watching the games in stadiums pretty much awaits the big things, the instant/simple efforts... The average viewer likes watching simplified highlights. He/she does not understand (nor do they want to) the strategy set by coaches behind the game that is on in front of them.
> Also, if this "beginning of the greater division" between compound and recurve proves to be successful, then it can set foot for compounds to become more and more different and thus closer and closer to the olympics.
> 
> So far, too early to tell anything for sure.




First off archery is not a team sport never has, it is individual scores added together, you can't shoot a 17 to make up for a 6. It will remain the same no matter what they do, you see a person at full draw and release the arrow into a target(read paint drying). It is this basic concept that just cannot be viewer friendly. As for the Olympic thing well I have been hearing this since the early 80's never put any stock in it we survived without being in it so far.

As for the hit/miss target the IFAA field round is essentialy a hit miss target, this works because of the number of arrows it takes, using a 3 arrow set system on a hit miss system is nothing more than trying to throw more chance into it and does nothing to show who is the best archer really is.

I can see it now, World champion...well I shot 6 arrows better than that guy over there but the other guy shooting for 3rd hit ten more target than me......ya that a World champion system for sure.

I remember the Atlanta Oylmpics whatching the 2 Korean ladies shooting a 169 to a 166 and then seeing others advance with 158 and then trying to explain to viewers with a straight face how this was a good system


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Without reading through all the crap on the FITA site, I think that all the proposed changes are ******ed and a waste of time. I even think the current system is crap. Archery is the only shooting sport on the planet where the guy/girl that shoots the highest score doesn't necessarily win! How stupid is that!



Sean McKenty said:


> I said it before and will say it again until we are shooting at each other you never wide spread TV coverage or sponsors, change the round all you want you are still watching paint dry.


As much as I think this would be fun Sean, I don't think I could support archery if the format is changed to this. I would be at huge disadvantage and definitely out in the first round. I'm not the smallest guy on the block. LMAO!!!! :wink:

As for watching archery on TV. Watching golf is like watching paint dry or grass grow. There's lots of people that watch that. I have nothing against golf, but I'd much rather watch Reo, Dave, Jesse, or heck even you Sean shoot then watching Tiger or Mike Weir wacking there balls around the greens.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Moparmatty said:


> As for watching archery on TV. Watching golf is like watching paint dry or grass grow. There's lots of people that watch that. I have nothing against golf, but I'd much rather watch Reo, Dave, Jesse, or heck even you Sean shoot then watching Tiger or Mike Weir wacking there balls around the greens.


Hmm, I'd agree, but I like archery. But from a story telling perspective--and that is what all good TV is--golf is more compelling. With archery, you can tell a story about people competing against one another, but it is always arrows on the same target. With golf you get the scenery and variability of beautiful golf ranges and with bowling you get splits, which make for some tension. But archery? It will never be compelling TV, not even with hit or miss targets. If anything, I think hit or miss targets make archery more dull, making the only scoring device even plainer and less interesting, like bowling with only one pin. Borrrrrinngggg....


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## Archer 4 Life (Oct 27, 2008)

I totally approve of the extended Cadets and Juniors, and I wish this had come sooner. My very first year shooting I was Cadet, but when my first Nationals came around I bumped up to Junior due to my birthday. 'Twas brutal, but I really like the idea of being about to enjoy being a Junior for a bit longer! :thumbs_up

I'm reserving my thoughts on everything else until I understand it a bit better.


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Archer 4 Life said:


> I totally approve of the extended Cadets and Juniors, and I wish this had come sooner. My very first year shooting I was Cadet, but when my first Nationals came around I bumped up to Junior due to my birthday. 'Twas brutal, but I really like the idea of being about to enjoy being a Junior for a bit longer! :thumbs_up
> 
> I'm reserving my thoughts on everything else until I understand it a bit better.


It will be a lot tougher for those first year cadets, though. You'll have 14 year olds shooting against 17 year olds. That's a much bigger gap than 17 to 20 in the juniors!


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

archerymom2 said:


> It will be a lot tougher for those first year cadets, though. You'll have 14 year olds shooting against 17 year olds. That's a much bigger gap than 17 to 20 in the juniors!


It doesnt have to be..you could simply extend the youger divisions as well to keep the same number of years in each age group. This would allign the distances better with the archers development as well.


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Xs24-7 said:


> It doesnt have to be..you could simply extend the youger divisions as well to keep the same number of years in each age group. This would allign the distances better with the archers development as well.


Keeping the same number of years in each age group (2) would essentially mean that they would have just added a 19-20 year old age group. But that's not what they did. They made Cadets 3 years and Juniors 3 years. 

Actually, I'm OK with that for several reasons (not the least of which is that with worlds every other year, now everyone gets to be at the top of the age group either as a Cadet or a Junior). But I'm just saying it's going to be hardest on the youngest Cadets -- especially those with a late birthday -- since they'll still be 14 while competing against the 17 year olds. I guess it's just something (as a coach or parent) to be aware of, and help them not get too discouraged...


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

FITA has probably taken into consideration the fact that some countries have limited numbers of cadets and juniors. This way, the competition in archery-developing countries gets bigger.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

There is a FITA judge seminar going on in Korea September 10-11, 09 
http://www.archery.org/content.asp?id=331&me_id=461&cnt_id=3914
Hopefully, the paticipants will receive some clarifications.


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