# Was there a time when it all just "seemed to come together"?



## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

pragmatic_lee said:


> I must say that from day one of my "archer career", I have had the privilege to shoot with some of the best! And they have all been very encouraging and willing to offer sound advise.
> 
> But, it was not until after my dismal performance at LAS that some of this advise started to make sense.
> 
> ...



yep, kinda like a flash in the pan..lasted about two weeks, 
but it was a bright flash.. remember????


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Bees said:


> yep, kinda like a flash in the pan..lasted about two weeks,
> but it was a bright flash.. remember????


Remember it well, but I think you are being a bit hard on yourself. :smile:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Glad it works for you

But I wouldn't touch that one with a 10ft pole....I don't release arrows. I have speed up when the clock is running out on me like you saw at LAS....but I haven't command shot an arrow in over two years. 

I concentrate on aiming and maintaining BT.....

One thing I did notice shooting with you @ LAS....it's time for you to do with that release what I told Sticky to do with his last summer....

Well maybe not the same since you are kind of far from the Potomac River :wink:

You want things to click....pick up a hinge and get Jarlicker to teach you how to shoot it correctly.


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> Glad it works for you
> 
> But I wouldn't touch that one with a 10ft pole....I don't release arrows. I have speed up when the clock is running out on me like you saw at LAS....but I haven't command shot an arrow in over two years.
> 
> ...


Man this evo showed me that I was not even close to doing BT correctly. :doh: Got to unlearn some habits  But I have learned that if I'm not giving the X the googly eye and my 100% attention I'm not shooting my best.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

*PRAG....I have "felt the feeling"....unfortunately....not often enough!!!

Then when I do..... seems the harder I try to get it again....the farther away it gets.....

The only thing Consistent is my Inconsistency.....

but I love archery and all of the great folks I've met that I can now call friends.....*
.


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

Funny thing has happened to most everyone that struggled up at LAS. 
They went home a bit deflated. Now very relaxed and everyone is shooting better. Go figure. Most picked up some form tid bits to work on

I can know think much clearer.
For me I am 100% sure where my draw length needs to be. Then I set my bows as such
Found out why I struggled getting the release to fire easily.
Started to make a concerted effort to do what is neccessary to make the correction.
For the life of my I cant figure out why or how I developed this poor flaw in the first place.

Sunday finally got to shoot on the field course.
Immdiately was able to correct my poor indoor shot on the field course.
Cracks me up how I can hammer a 60 - 65 yard dot yet struggle on a twenty yard vegas target. I just get a great sight picture and feel for the shot outside.

Easy answer why? 
You need to get in your comfort zone.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

jarlicker said:


> Funny thing has happened to most everyone that struggled up at LAS.
> They went home a bit deflated. Now very relaxed and everyone is shooting better. Go figure. Most picked up some form tid bits to work on
> 
> I can know think much clearer.
> ...


*Unfortunately mine seems to be curled up on my couch right now.....*


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Interesting read there Lee. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. When the time comes to pick up my bow again...I'll have to try your approach.

By the way, there was a time when my shooting "seemed to come together". Now...if I could only remember how...and when. :mg:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Interesting read there Lee. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. When the time comes to pick up my bow again...I'll have to try your approach.
> 
> By the way, there was a time when my shooting "seemed to come together". Now...if I could only remember how...and when. :mg:


It's a different time for you....your body is different....your mind is different.

You have to stop trying to do what you used to do......


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

jarlicker said:


> Funny thing has happened to most everyone that struggled up at LAS.
> They went home a bit deflated. Now very relaxed and everyone is shooting better. Go figure. Most picked up some form tid bits to work on
> 
> I can know think much clearer.
> ...



lighting plays a big part of it indoors for me. Outside I can see and inside I struggle to see. :teeth:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> It's a different time for you....your body is different....your mind is different.
> 
> You have to stop trying to do what you used to do......


Yes, you are right. But when you are struggling, the natural tendency is to go back and reproduce what worked in the past. Agreed?


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

mdbowhunter said:


> Yes, you are right. But when you are struggling, the natural tendency is to go back and reproduce what worked in the past. Agreed?


If you are not moving forward you are falling behind. I would not want to go backwards...I'm better than I usta be. Thing is.....your muscles know what to do.....it's the brain that gets in the way. What did Dr. Molly Griswold tell Tin Cup............"Roy, Roy, Roy, you don't have any inner demons. What you have is inner crapola, inner debris... garbage... loose wires, horsepoop in staggering amounts"


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Yes, you are right. But when you are struggling, the natural tendency is to go back and reproduce what worked in the past. Agreed?


How long have you been trying to do what used to work now....

You need to forget how you used to shoot....remember the scores as a reminder that you can do it....but you need to start from scratch. 

Build your form and shot from the ground up....heck I would even dump that 20 year old Stan.


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

Interesting read, Lee.

I know exactly what a bad shot feels like (form-wise). (pretty much mastered those).

And I have been starting to remember what those feel like and letting them down. My scores have jumped because of it. 

The hardest thing for me to realize is that once I am at full draw, there is no 'correction' I can make to make the shot feel 'good' with regards to form.

It either is there or not for me. If not, I let it down and try it again.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

mdbowhunter said:


> Yes, you are right. But when you are struggling, the natural tendency is to go back and reproduce what worked in the past. Agreed?


if you had anything really working in the past you would have never stopped.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I know what it feels like when it comes together for me. Unfortunately, I now know what it's like to feel clueless...........

It was easier to get there the first time than it's been to return.........


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## Prag Jr (Oct 16, 2008)

WrongdayJ said:


> Interesting read, Lee.
> 
> 
> The hardest thing for me to realize is that once I am at full draw, *there is no 'correction' I can make to make the shot feel 'good' with regards to form*.
> ...


If I could get that right in my head, I might actually do something! I think I can correct at full draw.:thumbs_do


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

WrongdayJ said:


> Interesting read, Lee.
> 
> I know exactly what a bad shot feels like (form-wise). (pretty much mastered those).
> 
> ...


EXACTLY....great post :clap:

That is my problem....I let down. But a lot of times I take WAY to long to decide to do it. More so indoors because of that stupid clock. ukey:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> EXACTLY....great post :clap:
> 
> That is my problem....I let down. But a lot of times I take WAY to long to decide to do it. More so indoors because of that stupid clock. ukey:


That may be the understatement of the year. :shade: I'm froze in place waiting for you to finish your shot before I even breath and 45 seconds later you finally let down. :teeth:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

pragmatic_lee said:


> That may be the understatement of the year. :shade: I'm froze in place waiting for you to finish your shot before I even breath and 45 seconds later you finally let down. :teeth:


You must be talking about watching from the bow rack....you roll out when your 3rd arrow is gone.:doh:

But most of the ones you are talking about.....the shot is fine. They just weren't going off. Hold was fine....just no bang. :doh:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> How long have you been trying to do what used to work now....
> 
> You need to forget how you used to shoot....remember the scores as a reminder that you can do it....but you need to start from scratch.
> 
> Build your form and shot from the ground up....heck I would even dump that 20 year old Stan.


I'm not reproducing the same form, etc. It's just...you know...aw forget it. 



Bees said:


> if you had anything really working in the past you would have never stopped.


Not true at all Bees. It was *BECAUSE* of the struggles after shooting quite well, that I walked away from Field for awhile.



Kstigall said:


> I know what it feels like when it comes together for me. Unfortunately, I now know what it's like to feel clueless...........
> 
> It was easier to get there the first time than it's been to return.........


Bingo! I know exactly how you feel. What once was easy...sometimes effortless...is now really freaking hard.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

mdbowhunter said:


> Bingo! I know exactly how you feel. What once was easy...sometimes effortless...is now really freaking hard.


The difference is the amount of time it took to get there. Before, I'm sure was built up over the course of several years. Now your your trying to condense all that work into a shorter time. Concentrate on the positives and give it time. It WILL come. It did before.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> I'm not reproducing the same form, etc. It's just...you know...aw forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know....:wink:

heck I kind of went through the same thing the past two years.....that's why I say...forget it and start over:wink:


as for Bees comment....you can have it and loose it. I went from avg about 56X on a 5 spot....299 with 23/24 on a Vegas face....high 530s outdoors to 40 some Xs....290 with no Xs....and about a 520 outdoors..... 

Heck Kstigall was shooting in the 640s on a LAS round to the 620s this year and not making the cut.....so you can loose it. 

Look at all the golfers....that lost it in their prime....It happens in all sports....


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Spoon13 said:


> The difference is the amount of time it took to get there. Before, I'm sure was built up over the course of several years. Now your your trying to condense all that work into a shorter time. Concentrate on the positives and give it time. It WILL come. It did before.


Yep....that is what I was doing....I came back and wanted to shoot the same scores....and I killed myself trying. :wink:


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

> Not true at all Bees. It was BECAUSE of the struggles after shooting quite well, that I walked away from Field for awhile.


I guess I never knew the Jerry of old,  

that's why I don't quit, being over 60 if I quit or take a break I know it won't come back, so I just stuggle on, heck at least I can still walk and pull the bow back. At this point all thoughts are tying to hold on to what I got not trying to make anything better.. 

good luck Freestyleing Mike and me are still at it..


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

In the words of Bill Clinton..."I feel your Pain." Lose it? How about going from shooting high five twenties with fingers to barely breaking four hundred??  Long story I'd like to tell it sometime. It is so easy to get really messed up between the ears. The story is something. How I overcame it is a real lesson on life.....


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

Unclegus said:


> In the words of Bill Clinton..."I feel your Pain." Lose it? How about going from shooting high five twenties with fingers to barely breaking four hundred??  Long story I'd like to tell it sometime. It is so easy to get really messed up between the ears. The story is something. How I overcame it is a real lesson on life.....



Well this forum aint that busy and I am all ears


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I have to get to bed. Four oclock come pretty early in WV. I'll tell all tomorrow...It's quite a tale.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> heck I kind of went through the same thing the past two years.....that's why I say...forget it and start over:wink:


Well, that seems to be the overall opinion of just about everybody...and I guess that many people can't be wrong. :wink:



Bees said:


> I guess I never knew the Jerry of old,


Nope...but that's ancient history now. I'll stop talking about it and move on.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

If this story helps just one person, then I've done my job. I'll try to make it short and concise. In 94 I was shooting twenties with fingers. Going into the thirties on occasion. Even shot a couple of 70+ hunter halves. Then my reconciliation with the Ex broke off, Went into deep depression. Heart attack in Nov 94... Recovered in 97 back into the low twenties. Had terrible accident in March 98 at work. Still pushed five hundred with a cast on my arm. IN January of 99, I thought I was loosing my mind. Went to doctor and told him about it. Solution.....Antidepressants. Got worse. Asked him to recommend a shrink. Shooting went to nothing..... Shrink diagnosed Post traumatic stress disorder from accident where I was trapped under piece of machinery for about half hour. Actually thought I was going well, but was a crazy as a June bug. Shooting went even downhill further. Got to the point I couldn't shoot four arrows in the four ring on a 15 yd. This is pretty much how it went right through last year. But I must say, even though there were embarassing moments and many tears, I never thought of quiting.
December 20, 2006, another heart attack. I was beginning to believe that I was too old and in bad health to do this anymore, but wouldn't quit. Last winter, I hit the wall. After Louisville, where I finished last as I had done for the last few years, I decided that I would never take another antidepressant if it even meant I was to be committed. In May, I also quit seeing the shrink. Although I must say, this guy gave me many tools to deal with things that have gotten me through a lot. And the biggie is that I wasn't crazy until I started taking the antidepressants. I had changed jobs, and was working nights, and sleeping days. That time of year I was getting no sunlight. Seasonal Affective disorder was killing me and did for almost ten years until I got a handle on it......
Since then I have gotten better at shooting, but there was always the thing in my mind, that I'm old, andhave had two heart attacks, a near fatal accident, and I was using this as a crutch. I was setting myself up to fail. And I was doing it beautifully. Then on the second day at Yankton my life changed. I was fortunate enough to shoot with a guy from Illinois named Larry Foht. Larry and I are the same age. Larry wears an under garmet like a corset to hold him together. He was in his words "mashed like a grape" by a steel I beam. He spent months in intensive care and the didn't think he would even live. They rebuilt his internal organs, but he has no muscles in his stomach, so he wears this garmet to keep him together. The skin on his stomach was grafted many times, and they tried to grow skin with this space age mesh, to no avail. The skin on his stomach is from an organ doner. He spent two years in rehab. Here is this guy out there doing his best to get around the range without any complaints, and here I am using this two heart attack thing to let my mind limit what I can do.....I honestly don't think I've ever been so ashamed of myself in my entire life. I honestly think it was no coincidence that we met...Anyway, my way of thinking changed that day. The next day, I went out and shot the best animal round I had ever shot even when I was good. Thank you Larry Foht for changing my life.
It's amazing how you can let your mind limit you. There other things I could say, but I think you will get the point. Never say never, never quit, and never limit yourself.


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## south-paaw (Jul 3, 2006)

Awesome post Unclegus ! Glad to hear you have found your way again..... i'm still looking for mine, and i'm nearly there. For me, ive been thinking way tooo much about everything form related,( about 6 weeks straight now) and am now just starting to settle down and just shoot.... (MOST of the time.. )


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Thank You for that story Gus. Sometimes all we ever need is a little perspective in our lives.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Wow - several times, I have had 2nd thoughts about even starting this thread as so many seemed to miss the entire point of it. BUT after reading Gus's story, I must say that I am "proud" to have opened a channel where this story fit right in.

Thank you so much for sharing it. Now I only hope that we have to opportunity to meet and shoot together one day. I got a big hand shake just waiting for you.

Lee


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## Prag Jr (Oct 16, 2008)

Thanks Gus~

It means a lot that you would open up and try to help the rest of us with such a personal story.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I'm glad I could share this. There's lots of things I could tell you about just how bad things got. I try to never forget where I came from, but always look ahead.......


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Great post Unclegus. :thumbs_up You got me thinking real hard about how to approach my own archery game. Thanks for the inspiration.


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