# Smart riser?



## JMAjustin (Aug 10, 2012)

Saw this video about the Smart riser. Has anyone heard anything else about this?


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## nifty (Jun 21, 2009)

Hmmmm.... When I'm at work I can handle a hydraulic leak on a 100 tonne crane. If I had to deal with a hydraulic oil leak on my archery gear mid tournament.... I would lose it!!! $1700 to 2k for a riser! No thanks.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Intensely expensive but I admire their innovation. If money were no object, it'd be so cool to have one. However, the riser I already have is not being fully taken advantage of (because I'm not a great shooter), so it'd be wasted on me.

Here's the company website: http://www.smartriser.it/index.php/

-Kent W.


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## noobcaheo (Jun 15, 2011)

so what is next in the future? auto aim sight? auto fix bad release? for the price over $1500, it would expect it shoots for me :darkbeer:


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## BaconRocks (Sep 16, 2012)

noobcaheo said:


> so what is next in the future? auto aim sight? auto fix bad release? for the price over $1500, it would expect it shoots for me :darkbeer:


They already have "auto fix bad releases." Look at any compound shooter...


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## DruFire (Jan 10, 2013)

hrm.. Looks interesting to me.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

The machining is pretty amazing


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## arrowyn (Jul 4, 2013)

[SUP][/SUP]The way he describes it like magic . .. no tuning, you put your stuff on it and shoot. He's all over this bow like white on rice . . .

"the ferrari . . ."

Time will show if this is true or not . . . if medal winners all start using it . . . 

but what got me is he said everyone he had try it, unanimously said they would buy it . . . 

I remember my dad telling me the US Navy, they use hydraulic dampeners on the battleships . . . helps the computers get a two thousand lb projectile 25 miles out . . . and X it . . .

MaYbe other designers will look at it (hydraulics or liquid dampening) if its really that game changing as he describes . . .


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## DruFire (Jan 10, 2013)

arrowyn said:


> [SUP][/SUP]The way he describes it like magic . .. no tuning, you put your stuff on it and shoot. He's all over this bow like white on rice . . .
> 
> "the ferrari . . ."
> 
> ...


ferrari... Some people love them, some hate them and prefer something else. As with all things archery, it will come down to personal feeling. how it feels to you.

Being the fact that they appear to be all custom order, you wont be walking into any local shop to " try " them anytime soon. And i would have a guess that if there is a waiting list to have these made, they may follow suite with a few other " Custom Bow Makers " policy of " NO SPONSORSHIPS ". If you want it you buy it, no contracts and money for shooting their products. Meaning you will probably never see this in any Gold metal matches.

However, keep an eye on the " bare bow " guys since it seems to me they are more likely to shoot what feels good to them, as apposed to shooting what is in their contract. 
If barebow guys start shooting it, ill have a look into one. 

Some one was making hydraulic dampening stabilizers for compounds, cant for the life of me remember who it was.


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## DruFire (Jan 10, 2013)

actually they do have a prostaff, so maybe we will start seeing this riser around more.


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## JMAjustin (Aug 10, 2012)

What I'm curious about is what if you just unscrewed the carbon plates? Or if it leaks. Its a $1,200-$2,000 riser so I'd expect that wouldn't be a real problem.


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## nifty (Jun 21, 2009)

DruFire said:


> ferrari... Some people love them, some hate them and prefer something else. As with all things archery, it will come down to personal feeling. how it feels to you.
> 
> Being the fact that they appear to be all custom order, you wont be walking into any local shop to " try " them anytime soon. And i would have a guess that if there is a waiting list to have these made, they may follow suite with a few other " Custom Bow Makers " policy of " NO SPONSORSHIPS ". If you want it you buy it, no contracts and money for shooting their products. Meaning you will probably never see this in any Gold metal matches.
> 
> ...


I remember in the mid nineties stabilisers filled with hydraulic oil for compounds. They were 1 1/2" round at least and darned heavy, can't remember the brand even though my photographic memory hasn't given up on the subject.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

The innovation here seems to be on the post-shot reaction. The passive dampening of vibration doesn't seem worth the price. Plus for such a rave review, why can't we see it in action?


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

kshet26 said:


> Plus for such a rave review, why can't we see it in action?


Exactly. 

As an absolute novice in Olympic style, I probably have no grounds to say anything about the riser, but I will say this... I'm a believer in a worker only being able to perform as well as the tools will allow. Many years ago, I switched from a cheap bass guitar to a Ferrari in the bass world, and not only did my playing sound instantly better because it was more forgiving, I was able to better know where I needed to focus my development. The tool was no longer an issue... It was me. The same theory applies to many things... Cars, cookware, my compound bow...

Let me know when Smartriser introduce purple to their colors line up. 

(Dream on... Lol)

 http://www.smartriser.it/index.php/


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

That money could nearly buy my riser and limbs together. It would truly want to be special to see that kind of money out of my wallet, and unfortunately I just can't see it being as amazing as the reviewer says. It's lightweight, sure. It's pretty due to meticulous machining and design (and if it came blemished at that price you'd send it back). It dampens vibration well due to it's inbuilt hydraulics. It's straight, presumably, and so doesn't need limb adjustment built in but this is only a good thing if your limbs don't require adjustment on it.
All in all everything this riser "does" can be done with a lightweight and more reasonably priced riser like the Win and Win RCX-100 with a dampener or two on the set up and a little bit of tuning of things like the tiller difference and brace height.
Now if they were to prove me wrong about this I would be pleasantly surprised and still about as likely to throw down over a grand for a riser as I am to cut off my fingers.
Bows are just tools. It's nice to have good tools. You do have to draw a line somewhere as to how much you'll pay for those tools however. When is a hammer more than a hammer? When is a bow more than a bow?


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

anmactire said:


> It's straight, presumably, and so doesn't need limb adjustment built in but this is only a good thing if your limbs don't require adjustment on it.


Didnt the video show that there was limb adjustment? PSE/Bernardini style alignment with the limb bolts pivoting?

Either way, if I had the money, id buy it. Just because I had the money and its expensive  It really does remind me of the MKX10 which is my new dream bow. My HPX will have to do for now


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

kshet26 said:


> The innovation here seems to be on the post-shot reaction. The passive dampening of vibration doesn't seem worth the price.


not when an up damper and a couple of flex balls will achieve the same thing. they are all just ways of absorbing and dissipating vibration.



BaconRocks said:


> They already have "auto fix bad releases." Look at any compound shooter...


yes, recurve shooters would like to think so. in reality, all release aids do is exchange one set of challenges for another. they just do it in a smaller overall error range, which is compensated for by a higher standard of expectation.


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

Arsi said:


> Didnt the video show that there was limb adjustment? PSE/Bernardini style alignment with the limb bolts pivoting?
> 
> Either way, if I had the money, id buy it. Just because I had the money and its expensive  It really does remind me of the MKX10 which is my new dream bow. My HPX will have to do for now


Must have missed that or forgotten it! I dislike that system myself but it works well there's no doubt about that.

Ah no, why would you dump money "just because"? Buy the HPX, keep the change and use it to afford competitions!


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## DruFire (Jan 10, 2013)

The more I read up, and looked at it the more I liked it.

Just have to wait for some one at my local range to show up with one so I can "try before I buy" 

It's a sexy riser for sure.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

anmactire said:


> Ah no, why would you dump money "just because"? Buy the HPX, keep the change and use it to afford competitions!


Because I had it of course! 

And yep, my HPX is reaching her 1st birthday and I went to several tournaments this year. To think, if I skipped the tournaments, id have my own Smartriser!


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't think it's worth it. You don't see Brady E. or Oh Jin H. using this. That clearly says something. Unless you're the best shooter on the entire Earth, this riser is not necessary, especially for the price.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Brady and Oh could use a broom and a peice of yarn and shoot better score than most of us.


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

Dacer said:


> Brady and Oh could use a broom and a peice of yarn and shoot better score than most of us.


Well said :set1_rolf2:


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

And we come full circle in the conversation haha. I think the reviewer got it right on the head. This is the super car of bows. Not many people on this forum have driven one, and an even smaller subset will ever need one. But there are people out there who buy them. We can debate all day on who is using what gear, but it wont change anything really.

How bout Jake and Brady using the Formula Carbon 720 recently? Yep.


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

Arsi said:


> How bout Jake and Brady using the Formula Carbon 720 recently? Yep.


_Meanwhile; at Hoyt Marketing headquarters_

"We're not selling many of the F720 limbs. Is there something wrong with them we haven't heard about?"

"Nope they all seem to be performing ok with no real big issues"

"Hmmm, get Jake and Brady on the line there I want to see what they think..." 


The above should be read like a comic book panel...

:shade:


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

anmactire said:


> _Meanwhile; at Hoyt Marketing headquarters_
> 
> "We're not selling many of the F720 limbs. Is there something wrong with them we haven't heard about?"
> 
> ...


Nah. You should replace the last line with:

"Hmmm... lets get those Sky XCCB limbs and rebrand them as Formula Carbon 720 like we did with Brady's F3s and have them shoot those"

Bahaha!

Anyways to bring this back on topic, what will the hydraulic fluid do in the riser? I have no knowledge on hydraulics and poking around the website, it looks like they basically dumped some fluid into the riser cutouts and then clamped them down with some material that looks like carbon fiber.


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

If I absolutely had to have a riser with damping (the old-school engineering term for what you all call dampening ) I would purchase a Sky TR-7.

My bow only has the minimal damping provided by the rods of my Easton X10 stabilizers, but that's good enough for me -- this new bow seems to solve a problem that I don't have.

Perhaps they should be making bicycle handlebars -- the only people I know who spend more money on their sport equipment than archers are bicyclists.


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

The liquid will be able to move around and dissipate the vibration through hystersis if it's as simple as it looks. I'd be interested in what they're using. Presumably some sort of oil but don't quote me on that - it could even just be water. The placement of it between the limbs and grip would certainly help with reducing felt feedback. I'm not too impressed with that aspect of it as I said earlier. I do like that they've used the carbon as a reinforcement to allow less material (if I've understood some of the discussion on their facebook page correctly) to be used but I wonder if it would even be possible to shoot the bow without them on it.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

anmactire said:


> The liquid will be able to move around and dissipate the vibration through hystersis if it's as simple as it looks. I'd be interested in what they're using. Presumably some sort of oil but don't quote me on that - it could even just be water. The placement of it between the limbs and grip would certainly help with reducing felt feedback. I'm not too impressed with that aspect of it as I said earlier. I do like that they've used the carbon as a reinforcement to allow less material (if I've understood some of the discussion on their facebook page correctly) to be used but I wonder if it would even be possible to shoot the bow without them on it.


Interesting.

So would the addition of the hydraulic fluid really justify the price increase of a few hundred dollars over other top risers? Obviously the cost of the R&D was added to the price of the riser, but I wonder if the reason why the reviewer said there was no tuning required was because the manufacturing process was a lot more intensive to reduce/eliminate any riser twist/variations. And if that would be the reason for the price increase, and the ETA on building the riser as well.

It sure does look pretty though.


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

Arsi said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So would the addition of the hydraulic fluid really justify the price increase of a few hundred dollars over other top risers? Obviously the cost of the R&D was added to the price of the riser, but I wonder if the reason why the reviewer said there was no tuning required was because the manufacturing process was a lot more intensive to reduce/eliminate any riser twist/variations. And if that would be the reason for the price increase, and the ETA on building the riser as well.
> 
> It sure does look pretty though.


I dunno about NO Tuning. They all did basically just put their limbs on the bow with the same brace height that they would normally have used, probably same nock height, probably did move the tillering to suit and it's a common geometry. By my reckoning he also put on a fairly "generic" stabiliser and sight set up on the bow which wouldn't be too dissimilar from most shooters'. Not to mention he only speaks about his own grouping, which isn't really related to tune as much as a lot of people would have you believe. Once it's roughly correct it'll work if you shoot it right. I think just adding a couple of dampers to the system would have the same effect. I don't even use any on my bow. I dislike having them on my stabilisers and the CXT with Hex limb combo doesn't really have any issues with vibration. 

Again, if they prove me wrong about my ideas I'll happily say I'm wrong but I _think_ the wow factor is at play here.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Seems like it's spending a lot of money to combat a problem which doesn't exist.

Good limbs really don't have any handshock these days. I can shoot my bow at 7.5gpp with no damping whatsoever and not notice any vibrations on the shot, but then again they are the lightest limbs in the world. It would be strange that someone would buy a riser this expensive and put anything but the very best custom limbs on it such as Border or Sky.

The first review I saw of this riser a few months back noted that the initial one received did leak and was replaced.

If you want a perfectly straight riser then just buy a Bernardini or Best and save your money. If you want to blow a bunch of cash then just get a Bernardini Aladin.

-Grant


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## TheRohBoat (Sep 4, 2012)

Just a few words on that Ellison, Oh, Kaminski thing.

First I think Oh, Ellison, and Kaminski are all paid shooters. So I don't think they would be shooting this new riser unless smartriser pays them more money than Hoyt does.

Second about the 720s thing. They were both shooting carbon 720s at nationals. I think Ellison was shooting them because he isn't diggin' F7s (He shot f3s for fields, socal and gator). And I don't know what's good with Kaminski because he went back to f7s at WC Medellin. So he was probably copying Ellison (just like everybody else at the OTC does).


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

That's pretty slick...but way pricey for just a riser. The day my recurves cost more than my compound equipment, I'll probably have a heart attack.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

TheRohBoat said:


> Just a few words on that Ellison, Oh, Kaminski thing.
> 
> First I think Oh, Ellison, and Kaminski are all paid shooters. So I don't think they would be shooting this new riser unless smartriser pays them more money than Hoyt does.
> 
> Second about the 720s thing. They were both shooting carbon 720s at nationals. I think Ellison was shooting them because he isn't diggin' F7s (He shot f3s for fields, socal and gator). And I don't know what's good with Kaminski because he went back to f7s at WC Medellin. So he was probably copying Ellison (just like everybody else at the OTC does).


I think it was just a marketing deal with Hoyt. 

You have all these younger archers wanting to have what the guys at the top are using, and letting them all see them use a mid priced limb at an event like Nationals - just really great marketing. 

I mean even when I saw some pictures of them using the 720 i thought to myself, 'They must be good enough limbs for them to use, they'd be good enough for me' ... 

Anyway - I suspect the fluid in the compartments are of high viscosity to be able to critically dampen the high frequency vibrations of the bow after the shot. It makes me wonder how much of the low frequency (muscle tremor) vibration it takes up too - helping the archer to aim.

Be interested to see what thought some of the MEs on the forum think about it...


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

TheRohBoat said:


> Just a few words on that Ellison, Oh, Kaminski thing.
> 
> First I think Oh, Ellison, and Kaminski are all paid shooters. So I don't think they would be shooting this new riser unless smartriser pays them more money than Hoyt does.
> 
> Second about the 720s thing. They were both shooting carbon 720s at nationals. I think Ellison was shooting them because he isn't diggin' F7s (He shot f3s for fields, socal and gator). And I don't know what's good with Kaminski because he went back to f7s at WC Medellin. So he was probably copying Ellison (just like everybody else at the OTC does).


Yeah, I don't think Kaminski was copying anyone. Maybe I'll ask him when he gets back home. Jake seems to take his own road and is willing to experiment to find what works best for him.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

Arsi said:


> Nah. You should replace the last line with:
> 
> "Hmmm... lets get those Sky XCCB limbs and rebrand them as Formula Carbon 720 like we did with Brady's F3s and have them


I thought the f3s were prototype f7s.


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## DruFire (Jan 10, 2013)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> That's pretty slick...but way pricey for just a riser. The day my recurves cost more than my compound equipment, I'll probably have a heart attack.


My current set up, full retail would put it right around 2700-2800. The compound i'm looking to buy is only 700$ complete... It happens.


if the smartrisers only selling point was dampening, id not even look at it. My CXT/Border Hex 6 has no shock as it sits.

Should i ever be in the market for an aluminum riser again, id give this a consideration. Id still love to shoot one and see how she feels.


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

A nice looking riser.However my Samick Masters Riser (about 12 years old and costing ~ £200) comes with built in vibration dampers (one in each limb pocket) and a dual limb bolt (alignment + tiller) functionally pretty much identical to the Smart. Only real difference is the incorporation of carbon fibre giving a significant overall weight reduction.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

There are at present several good level archers using the Smartriser in Itlay, but as far as I know they all got the riser in sponsorship. 
Top level using it is Alberto Zagami, that has partecipated to Shanghai, Antalya and Mediterrenan Game with the Italian team, and will be in Wroklaw, too. 
Another one is Luca Palazzi, that wil shoot for Italy at Wolrd Games in Calì end of this week.
For sure, real sales are quite limited here because of retail price. I remember my old time with Bernardini company when the Aladin riser was considered the most expensive in the world with 890.00 Euro suggested retail price... nothing compared to today 1,260.00 Euro of the Smartriser top version ...


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## martille (Sep 4, 2013)

I've got it. Is Fantastic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's true, is expansive, but it's a different product with a different costs of production and a different manifacturing care.

This is the web site http://www.smartriser.it.
If you read the production process you can understand why the cost is higher than other risers.

If you have some questions .... i'm at your disposition

another top archer that use it, is Amedeo Tonelli. All the top archers have made their bests with this riser ... casuality ???? 
Sincerly i don't know, but i can say that is very easy to setting up, there are no vibration, the weight for me is the ideal one (a bit less of 1 kg). I'm very satisfied.

P.S: the top version have only esthetics differences from the standard version


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

kshet26 said:


> I thought the f3s were prototype f7s.


Correct.


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

That was a car salesman selling snake oil! Did any one notice the complete lack of technical information?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

all i saw was a bunch of holding a riser. I didnt see any shooting of a riser. 


Chris


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## nifty (Jun 21, 2009)

Please note.... Not all Australians are like that! Certainly wasn't how I would go about trying to sell a product. Not a shop I had ever heard of until now but I am on the west coast.


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## Mormegil (Jan 26, 2012)

Sheldon is actually pretty good to deal with. Good customer service and his prices are very competitive.


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

nifty said:


> Please note.... Not all Australians are like that! Certainly wasn't how I would go about trying to sell a product. Not a shop I had ever heard of until now but I am on the west coast.


In the US, people's bad or questionable behavior is admired by the public or at least by the forum moderators. It's considered good sport.


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## yurmes (Apr 2, 2013)

Look like I missed something , and what about limbs???


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

I would use uukhas or borders with this dream bow for sure.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

I recently had a chance to shoot a range mate's Pearson "Lord Mercury" trad recurve. Small capsules of mercury embedded in the riser, dead in the hand post shot and sweet added mass! 

That bow is likely at least 25 years old, not a new idea.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I think I'm going to buy an old Pearson Lord Mercury and put a couple of Bear Delta V string stops on it... Just for fun.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

Mormegil said:


> Sheldon is actually pretty good to deal with. Good customer service and his prices are very competitive.


I'll believe that when he ships the case I purchased in November - and he billed me for in December - and that I haven't seen yet.

jury still very much out, and not looking good on current experience.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

DruFire said:


> However, keep an eye on the " bare bow " guys since it seems to me they are more likely to shoot what feels good to them, as apposed to shooting what is in their contract.
> If barebow guys start shooting it, ill have a look into one.


I dont think it would be allowed under WA Barebow rules as it's considered riser dampening, it's an interesting riser but I went for the Vanquish (only a little cheaaper lol)


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## K31Scout (Sep 17, 2003)

Well, for post-shot reaction and dampening I have used a string stop similar to what Hoyt is selling these days, homemade, and it is VERY good at after shot bow reaction. 
I've seen a few of this man's reviews and respect him but this one...he was speechless half the time. I swear he was going to cry when he said he had to send it back. His lip was quivering. They should send him one free for that sales job. Do I want one...yes.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I do know one Barebow guy in Europe that ordered one, the first to arrive he sent straight back as it was leaking fluid the second was fine but sold it, said he liked the shot reaction of his Greenhorn Sirius better, he seems to try every new riser that's made, saw him at last WA3D worlds in Sardinia with an Inno Max (he finished in top 5), he has just ordered the Vanquish so I'll be interested to see if he prefers it over his Sirius riser.


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## sawlow (Sep 5, 2013)

I tried my friend's XM1 + Xcurve set setup a while ago and honestly I have not experienced anything so smooth since I started shooting in 1982, not too sure that was attributed to the riser of the limbs or both but it was so impressive that feeling just kept crawling back to my head and I had to order a set despite the very hefty price tag. It was like 5 months ago and the Uukha Xcurve arrived promptly and they've been sitting around for a few months now but the Smartriser, after a 1 or 2 email exchanges and lost contact, no responses whatsoever since May! I checked with the local pro-shop who happened to have placed orders for a few risers as well but could not get any contact either. I wonder if they are too busy with the demands in Europe or if anything happened to the company. Is there any other ways to order a Smartriser other than emailing to an email address they wouldn't respond to?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

sawlow said:


> I tried my friend's XM1 + Xcurve set setup a while ago and honestly I have not experienced anything so smooth since I started shooting in 1982, not too sure that was attributed to the riser of the limbs or both but it was so impressive that feeling just kept crawling back to my head and I had to order a set despite the very hefty price tag. It was like 5 months ago and the Uukha Xcurve arrived promptly and they've been sitting around for a few months now but the Smartriser, after a 1 or 2 email exchanges and lost contact, no responses whatsoever since May! I checked with the local pro-shop who happened to have placed orders for a few risers as well but could not get any contact either. I wonder if they are too busy with the demands in Europe or if anything happened to the company. Is there any other ways to order a Smartriser other than emailing to an email address they wouldn't respond to?


P.M sent ...


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## jaredjms (Oct 24, 2007)

Anyone have any recent experiences with this riser? The way he talks about it in the review makes me want one!


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

given Sheldon went bust last year (?) I would not expect to hear too much from him.


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## sawlow (Sep 5, 2013)

jaredjms said:


> Anyone have any recent experiences with this riser? The way he talks about it in the review makes me want one!


The company has gone into silent mode, I doubt if anyone could get a new riser from them recently.


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