# Shooting Back Tension



## Mach-X

A couple days ago I caught part of a thread where someone replied about getting to shoot with Rio Wilde and his family. I tried today to find it but was unsuccessful. It talked about some pointers for back tension and how he would shoot and think that way in the future. 
Anyone know who that was? I sure would like to hear more about that. I have tried several different releases and after time get "punchy" or anticipate the shot... not good!
Thanks
Kevin


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## viperarcher

The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


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## viperarcher

I hope this helps!


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## Mach-X

Viper thanks,
It does help I need to trust my shot better and not worry about the scope being perfectly in the X when it goes off.
Thanks


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## viperarcher

Your welcome! Keep it simple and repeatable!


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## Mach-X

*Evolution Plus*

I bought a Evolution plus a couple years ago at a shoot. It felt weird at the time to shoot, didnt have the release poundage adjusted so it would go off if I crept forward in the valley. put it in a drawer to collect dust.
I dug it out and tightened down the spring(found the direction) its 5 -6 lbs heavier than my holding weight. Tonight I shot a 300 with 26x's far and away my personal best! (Vegas round) push and pull straight back and lock on the X wow.
Vipers thread made me think about the push and pull and not thinking about a perfectly steady hold just focus focus focus!
:beer::thumbs_up


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## FIGJAM

Mach-X said:


> I bought a Evolution plus a couple years ago at a shoot. It felt weird at the time to shoot, didn't have the release poundage adjusted so it would go off if I crept forward in the valley. put it in a drawer to collect dust.
> I dug it out and tightened down the spring(found the direction) its 5 -6 lbs heavier than my holding weight. Tonight I shot a 300 with 26x's far and away my personal best! (Vegas round) push and pull straight back and lock on the X wow.
> Vipers thread made me think about the push and pull and not thinking about a perfectly steady hold just focus focus focus!
> :beer::thumbs_up


You hit the nail on the head..."focus focus focus" I have also found that if you do a check list before you shoot, what I mean is how does this feel is my grip right are my anchor points right am I comfortable and I then picture the flight of the arrow....the back tension does the rest.


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## viperarcher

Mach-X said:


> I bought a Evolution plus a couple years ago at a shoot. It felt weird at the time to shoot, didnt have the release poundage adjusted so it would go off if I crept forward in the valley. put it in a drawer to collect dust.
> I dug it out and tightened down the spring(found the direction) its 5 -6 lbs heavier than my holding weight. Tonight I shot a 300 with 26x's far and away my personal best! (Vegas round) push and pull straight back and lock on the X wow.
> Vipers thread made me think about the push and pull and not thinking about a perfectly steady hold just focus focus focus!
> :beer::thumbs_up


Thats awsome!!! congrates , Its only going to get better! I am so glad I was able to help you , break it down in simple terms! all you have to do is keep practicing back tension, let muscle memory develope and you brain get wraped around it! write down a shot sequence in steps and practice it along with you back tension.


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


This is for all who want to get serious and perform at there best!


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## chrchunter

*back tension unstable assist thanks*

I too was having issues with the back tension, sometimes it would be exceptional and others I would struggle , between concentrating on the spot and wrestling with the release going off. I use 2 finger ht which shoots very quiet and smooth. I forgot about the part of pushing with bow arm and pulling with second finger helps enormously . My ultra elite I just shortened the draw length to 27 with 1/2 inch d loop. Thanks for reminding me what I was doing wrong .


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


This is for any archery that is struggling with back tension, Start with a good shot sequence, right it down in steps.(Follow those steps) Blind bale shooting and the proper methods will make you a better shooter.


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## tworinger

*bac tension release*

um thats prety rudeamentary approach to shooting a hinge releaseor thumb triger release,first of all lets be clear the myth of pushing with your bow arm dose nothing but put more movement into your pin you can't push with the same pressure time after time wich will cuz variations shot to shot draw to anchor focouse on your target and pull through the shot
in regaurds to shooting with"back tension" the shot sequence is critical for a repeatable and pradictable p.o.i.you need to line your bow arm and release arm to form a straight line sholders dropped and relaxed this will put your romboid muscle in a position to be activated as you pull through the shot
stand with your arms at your sides then lift them straight out so they're parralell with the ground and inline with one another turn your head to the bow arm now bend release arm at the elbow bringing your fingers to your jaw bone that is the form you should strive for every shot,start by holding your bow at your side raise it striaght up and out from your side then draw across your chest locate,center the dot,pull through the shot,reload
if you strugle with a hinge release not wanting to go off chances are you are not leaning on it,or you have to much pressure on the index finger cuz your finger position isn't correct,a lott of people make the mistake of setting the triggering speed way to hot and then dig in with the index finger wich hangs up the release.the pinky and ring finger need to be behind the index finger and in deeper then your index finger(i.e.3-4 finger release) what i do is set the travel asto alow me to draw wrap my midle and ring finger around the release touching my tips to my palm lift my pionter finger to set the clicker then pull i shoot my thumb release the same way and use a heavier spring cuz you don't want a hot release as you'll learn to anticipate the shot if it's to lite,hope this sheds a little more light on the subject


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


trying to break it down in simple terms to get archers started on the right track , to learning back tension!


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## subconsciously

I agree with 2ringer on the whole "push" idea. I do a "reach". Just enough to engage the Latissimis Dorsi. This engages my front have to steady the bow arm. This is a technique taught by Kisik Lee (head Olympic Archery Coach).

As far as the release goes, I bury it in my in hand to the point of making a relaxed fist. Keep the release deep.This keeps you from cheating. The farther out in your hand, the easier it is for you to manipulate release speed.

Just aim.


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## fatboyshooter

*Bernie Pellerite's book*



Mach-X said:


> A couple days ago I caught part of a thread where someone replied about getting to shoot with Rio Wilde and his family. I tried today to find it but was unsuccessful. It talked about some pointers for back tension and how he would shoot and think that way in the future.
> Anyone know who that was? I sure would like to hear more about that. I have tried several different releases and after time get "punchy" or anticipate the shot... not good!
> Thanks
> Kevin


Idiot Proof Archery is a book U should read if U want some great advice on shooting back tension, I took all of Bernie's advice on aiming and allowing the bow to fire rather than making the bow fire, his book took me from target panic patient to having fun shooting competitive 3-D.


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## Frederick D. Be

*Bt*



fatboyshooter said:


> Idiot Proof Archery is a book U should read if U want some great advice on shooting back tension, I took all of Bernie's advice on aiming and allowing the bow to fire rather than making the bow fire, his book took me from target panic patient to having fun shooting competitive 3-D.


Thanks for the positive insight. I too have read the book and applying principles learned to the thumb trigger with positive results in 3D. You guys have some knowledge I wish I had known 10 years ago.


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## halvy

there are many archers who tell people to "drive the bow to the x" and when learning backtension that is a simple way of saying " while pulling out the back make sure your staying firm and not spongy out front!" , and there is deffinatly a difference! make sure when you get the whole idea of shooting back tension that you start to loosen up you bow arm and grip on the release so your hands and arms are relaxed during the shot then if you are truely getting good at backtension your body naturally starts to get in a sequence and you naturally start to pull and the release will go off by itself!


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## halvy

great reading on the concept discussed in the last post hope this helps


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


when I say push toward the target I don't mean push hard, push slightly and pull straight back with your release elbow like there was a string attatched to it all at the same time. You should have all your focus on the aiming process and nothing else! if your release is set up properly, it will not take much to activate it.


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## viperarcher

ttt


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


* For all archers having a hard time understanding back tension.*


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## V.A.S.A

*shooting with Reo....*



Mach-X said:


> A couple days ago I caught part of a thread where someone replied about getting to shoot with Rio Wilde and his family. I tried today to find it but was unsuccessful. It talked about some pointers for back tension and how he would shoot and think that way in the future.
> Anyone know who that was? I sure would like to hear more about that. I have tried several different releases and after time get "punchy" or anticipate the shot... not good!
> Thanks
> Kevin


*I posted a comment to a thread regarding shooting with Reo Wilde. I had the honor of practicing with him on the side range at Lancaster in 2009. I had no idea who he actually was until after we finished in practice, But I couldnt help notice he was different from all of the other shooters I had seen.,,He never missed an X that day....even on the qualifying round. He shot a perfect 60 X ( super X's) I was fortunate enough along with my cousin Chris to be able to hang with the Wilde Bunch for a bit and even get some personalized 1on 1 free training on using the Scott Longhorn Pro Release, Reo is the master of that Release for sure. He settles in with it then relaxes the index finger to cause the shot....But he focuses on aiming. You have to program your shot sequence so it becomes secondary and subconcious, Then it will all fall into place. I would like to add that the Wildes are a great group....Dee and Reo and Logan as well...great archers and a great asset to archery. Check out Reo's website,

http//www.Reowilde.com*


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## viperarcher

* For all that is struggling with back tension!*


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## Mach-X

*V.a.s.a.*

Excellent your the one I was hopeing to talk with. What a fantastic day that must have been, nothing like rubbing elbows with the few that have excelled!
Thanks for the reply
Kevin


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## V.A.S.A

*I hope my reply was helpful.*



Mach-X said:


> Excellent your the one I was hopeing to talk with. What a fantastic day that must have been, nothing like rubbing elbows with the few that have excelled!
> Thanks for the reply
> Kevin


*Your very welcome...Hope my reply message was informative....if I can be of any further assistance please feel free to PM me.:thumbs_up*


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## wyoming4x4

*Learning back tension with evolution!!!!*

I understand your situation on learning backension. I just learned how to shoot the evolution. I should say learning how to shoot with evolution. I love this release and what it has taught me about myself. I'm set up about 4lbs above my holding weight. It tells me when I'm pulling wrong and when I pulling correctly. Should say push pull correctly it goes off easily. If I'm struggling on the pull it lets me know I'm doing something wrong. A lot of times its my posture is wrong and collasping or pulling with my shoulder instead of back. Been learning since december and trying to reprogram myself. Its been a great experience and my scores are consistanly rising. I shoot a bowtech constitution and all my hoyt guys give me a hard time but I feel really comfortable with this bow. the shots I've missed wasn't the bow fault. Congatulations with with your new experience with back tension and drop a note from time to time. Catch you later and keep on shooting!


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## EagleI79

*Omg*

As far as the release goes, I bury it in my in hand to the point of making a relaxed fist. Keep the release deep.This keeps you from cheating. The farther out in your hand, the easier it is for you to manipulate release speed.



This just totally made me realize what I have been doing wrong this whole time.....I have been setting the Scott Longhorns "3 finger" so hot that My index finger never gets to relax and the middle and ring finger never get to "help". I need to set them deep make a fist and pull. I want so much to shoot a Longhorn just like Reo Wilde and Chance Beaubouef. I understand Back Tension getting BT is a nother story. Now I have something to work on.


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## hoekma

I also started keeping the trigger more toward my palm rather than out front. It contacts my first knuckle now rather than the fingertip. I have another question, though. I was given some advice to use the middle finger rather than the index finger on the release. My index finger and thumb are on the inside, middle finger on the trigger and ring/pinkey are on the outside. It seems to help keep my hand in a straighter line with my arm. Does anyone else shoot this way?


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## viperarcher

hoekma said:


> I also started keeping the trigger more toward my palm rather than out front. It contacts my first knuckle now rather than the fingertip. I have another question, though. I was given some advice to use the middle finger rather than the index finger on the release. My index finger and thumb are on the inside, middle finger on the trigger and ring/pinkey are on the outside. It seems to help keep my hand in a straighter line with my arm. Does anyone else shoot this way?


oh boy! ok , first you want your grip so that your knuckles are out at a 45 degree angle, and the V in your palm is just the back of the grip. like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKteQttSCYw&feature=related! second you want your index finger to be so the trigger is inside the first knuckle. like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io4xuGoHLww&feature=related. start here I hope this helps!


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## subconsciously

EagleI79 said:


> As far as the release goes, I bury it in my in hand to the point of making a relaxed fist. Keep the release deep.This keeps you from cheating. The farther out in your hand, the easier it is for you to manipulate release speed.
> 
> 
> 
> This just totally made me realize what I have been doing wrong this whole time.....I have been setting the Scott Longhorns "3 finger" so hot that My index finger never gets to relax and the middle and ring finger never get to "help". I need to set them deep make a fist and pull. I want so much to shoot a Longhorn just like Reo Wilde and Chance Beaubouef. I understand Back Tension getting BT is a nother story. Now I have something to work on.


Your welcome.


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## hoekma

viperarcher said:


> oh boy! ok , first you want your grip so that your knuckles are out at a 45 degree angle, and the V in your palm is just the back of the grip. like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKteQttSCYw&feature=related! second you want your index finger to be so the trigger is inside the first knuckle. like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io4xuGoHLww&feature=related. start here I hope this helps!


Thanks for the vids, viper. I guess I didn't describe it very well. I wasn't talking about the left hand (bow grip). I was talking about the release hand and using the middle finger on the trigger rather than the index finger. It seems to keep my hand in a straighter alignment with my arm so my release hand isn't torked to the right.


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## viperarcher

hoekma said:


> Thanks for the vids, viper. I guess I didn't describe it very well. I wasn't talking about the left hand (bow grip). I was talking about the release hand and using the middle finger on the trigger rather than the index finger. It seems to keep my hand in a straighter alignment with my arm so my release hand isn't torked to the right.


I guess you didn't read all of what I had to say! using your middle finger is a bad idea!


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## hoekma

viperarcher said:


> oh boy! ok , first you want your grip so that your knuckles are out at a 45 degree angle, and the V in your palm is just the back of the grip. like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKteQttSCYw&feature=related! second you want your index finger to be so the trigger is inside the first knuckle. like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io4xuGoHLww&feature=related. start here I hope this helps!


??? I re-read and rewatched the vids. You say to use the index finger, but don't say why the middle finger is a bad idea. Several people I've shot with commented that the middle finger release is becoming an increasingly popular method. Personally, I can shoot very tight groups with it combined with the backtension method. I'm not sure if it is better than the index finger or not, but it feels right.


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


 This will get you started! it takes practice, about 2 weeks to train your brain and gain muscle memory!


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## slicer

Middle finger works well for some shooters. For one, the finger is longer and the middle crease is further forward. This helps you really get that finger wrapped around the trigger.

Two, this finger isn't as sensitive as your index finger.

Three, the connection from the middle finger runs more through the middle of your arm and up into the big muscles of your shoulder. The index finger connection runs more along the inside of your arm. Pull on something with each finger and you can feel what it engages. It's whatever feels best for you.


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## viperarcher

why not get a spring for the post on your trigger and use that? instead of using your middle finger?


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## viperarcher

check this out on backtension http://www.archeryfix.com/Blind-bail-training.htm


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## hoekma

viperarcher said:


> why not get a spring for the post on your trigger and use that? instead of using your middle finger?


Thanks for the link above -- it has some really good descriptions of proper shooting form. What do you mean by a spring for the post on the trigger? Do you have a link to one?


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## CherryJu1ce

Pulling the elbow "straight back" doesn't involved back tension at all. If the elbow doesn't move on an arc towards the midline of the back as the release is activated, it means that the muscles originating on the spinous processes of the vertebrae and inserting into the medial border of the scapula and humerus aren't contracting, hence no "back tension". Kisik Lee and other biomechanists are leading the way in this field...check out the B.E.S.T. Method of back tension, also known as the Biomechanically Efficient Shooting Technique, and get started on the right track the first time.


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## viperarcher

hoekma said:


> Thanks for the link above -- it has some really good descriptions of proper shooting form. What do you mean by a spring for the post on the trigger? Do you have a link to one?


http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/index.html click on the April/ May Center shots arctical and video with bill winkle.


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


master this !


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## viperarcher

* read up^^^*


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## viperarcher

*ttt*


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## underdog145

The reason a lot of people are going to shooting a traditional trigger release with the middle finger is that it lines everything up a lot more rather than having your wrist torqued to the right. Archery is all about straight lines.


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## viperarcher

underdog145 said:


> The reason a lot of people are going to shooting a traditional trigger release with the middle finger is that it lines everything up a lot more rather than having your wrist torqued to the right. Archery is all about straight lines.


LOL yeah ok!


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## Bigjim67

*Back-tension*

How do you shoot a bow with hard stop that go against the limb? I shot my commander great, but it has a little creep this new bow is rock solid. How do you get a little sponge in it? 

Shooting back-tension is tough, and seems to pull my sight off target with new cams


Thanks Jim


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## viperarcher

Bigjim67 said:


> How do you shoot a bow with hard stop that go against the limb? I shot my commander great, but it has a little creep this new bow is rock solid. How do you get a little sponge in it?
> 
> Shooting back-tension is tough, and seems to pull my sight off target with new cams
> 
> 
> Thanks Jim


Jim, You don't want a little sponge in the cam ! You want a solid back wall that you can pull into with your release arm elbow! You want to pull hard into the back wall, You also want to preload the weight and tension into your back muscles so that your bow arm and shoulder, and your release arm and shoulder can stay relaxed throught the shot cycle. Think of it as pulling the bow apart , slightly push forward toward the target and pull back with your release elbow all at the same time. Do this and put all your attention on aiming ( focusing on the spot you want to hit)


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## rossguy27

all this advice sounds just like what I'm looking for. making this post so I can find this thread later. Thanks to everyone who has posted advice!


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> Jim, You don't want a little sponge in the cam ! You want a solid back wall that you can pull into with your release arm elbow! You want to pull hard into the back wall, You also want to preload the weight and tension into your back muscles so that your bow arm and shoulder, and your release arm and shoulder can stay relaxed throught the shot cycle. Think of it as pulling the bow apart , slightly push forward toward the target and pull back with your release elbow all at the same time. Do this and put all your attention on aiming ( focusing on the spot you want to hit)


Blind bale shooting is something that you want to spend some time with, It will give you tremendous advantage! Help you really get the feel of your release and what a good shot feels like. http://www.archeryfix.com/Blind-bail-training.htm


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## field14

One additional thing to work with on learning the correct muscles that MUST be used for "correct back tension is a simple thing...and works wonders!

Get a light weight RECURVE bow, in the 20-35 pound weight range at your drawlength.

Mount a d-loop on the bowstring.
Get up close to the bale
Pull back the bow to your correct ANCHOR POINT and DRAW LENGTH that you use with your compound.
HOLD THE BOW BACK at anchor and shoot your release...don't punch it, hold and release.

The first few shots will surprise you...big time. After about 20 or 30 shots...you will soon begin to develop a feel for WHICH muscles you MUST use in order to hold this bow back and shoot it correctly.

You will also develop the sensation of a REAL explosion, since you cannot hold back a recurve bow with ARM MUSCLES, or HAND muscles either....hahahaha

Will you get TIRED quickly? Yes, you sure will.

Will you start to "get with the shot" instead of calibrating all day long? YES, you will...because unless you are REALLY STRONG and used to having all that holding weight and having to support it...you MUST execute the shot, and not piddle diddle with it like you can when only holding 10-15 pounds or so...like many are doing today with their high letoff compounds.

This exercise is worth the time and effort, and IMHO something that would really help people with back tension...including those that think they already "know" what back tension really is....THEY may well find that they have forgotten what it REALLY is and which muscles they really should be using.

Besides that, it is FUN, too. Doesn't have to be done for hundreds of shots either...but a "review" now and again sure won't hurt either, :thumbs_up:thumbs_up

field14 (Tom D.)


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## viperarcher

* Read up^^*


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## 4x20

How do you shoot a back tension release? That is a question I get at least 3 times a week if not more. I have thought about this a lot and it can be very difficult to explain but I will give it a shot.

Shooting a hinge style release consistently starts before you even draw the bow. It is very important that your hand placement in the release stays the same from shot to shot. If this is not done than it is very hard to have the shot go off in the same amount of time each and every time, you will get the dreaded that one was too fast and the next will be too slow and it is hard enough to get a good rhythm without having to fight something as simple as hand placement. I start off with the release into the middle pad of the finger and I draw back with approx 75% of the pressure on the index finger 15% on the middle finger and 10% on the 3rd finger. I do this weather I am using a 3 or 4 finger release.

Once I am to full draw I will take all of the weight off of my middle & 3rd finger for just a second before I settle in to start my shot. What this does is it gives me a consistent starting point of pressure on my index finger, the amount of pressure on you have on index finger really effects the speed of how the release works so having the same amount of beginning pressure is the first step in having a consistent shot time.

Now that I am at full draw and I am into my anchor and I am ready to start my activation of the release. I will keep a constant pressure on the wall of the bow (I am not of the belief that you need to rip the limbs off the bow to shoot back tension). I allow my index finger to stretch with the pressure of the shot and I will increase pressure on my middle and 3rd finger (and pinky if shooting a 4 finger release). I do feel the release rotate in my hand but I never stop the motion once it starts. This is very important because if you stop the shot you have lost all the momentum of the movement and it is like moving a brick wall to get it started again. I am a believer that you need to have constant motion in the release otherwise you will freeze up and have a hard time getting the shots off in a timely manner. So set the release so you can feel the travel and get use to letting the release move in your hand.

When first learning to shoot a release this way, start off up close with an oversized target. I will often practice at 10 yds shooting the standard 60cm Vegas 3 spot or NFAA 5 spot target. What this does is it will teach you to how to execute a continuous motion shot due to the fact it is much easier to aim at 10yds with out the panic of moving out of the middle. If you still get a panic feeling at 10 yds keep moving closer until you can hold in the middle without a fear of floating out. It is important to do this instead of the popular blank bale shooting because you need to teach your mind to multi task, you need to be able to aim and activate the shot. Moving up close takes out the anxiety of aiming too fine out of the equation and it will teach your subconscious how to aim and execute in a fluid manner. 

When shooting a thumb trigger I use the same methods with some slight changes. I distribute the weight a little different on the release to start. I will put about 50% of the pressure on the index finger 25% on the middle finger and 25% on the third and fourth finger. Once anchored and settled into the shot I will keep constant pressure on the back wall an tranfer the pressure from the index finger to the middle and third finger. The trigger will roll into the thumb and activate the release. Just like hinge style releases hand placement in the release will change the speed of the shot.

I hope this helps and it works well for me.

Good luck

Doug Williams


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## viperarcher

Good stuff Doug!


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## mrdanner

4x20 said:


> I am a believer that you need to have constant motion in the release otherwise you will freeze up and have a hard time getting the shots off in a timely manner. So set the release so you can feel the travel and get use to letting the release move in your hand.


I am a believer in this too, although after trying to get the feeling of movement out I am struggling to get this consistent. I describe it as pulling while letting the release work through your hand. 

When I am shooting good my rhoimboids are contracting the whole time while the release rotates itself around in my hand. 

When I am shooting bad I am not pulling through I am just letting the weight of the bow rotate the release which is the one danger to this style of shooting. 

I really think the movement is really important.

Mason


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## montigre

mrdanner said:


> When I am shooting good my rhoimboids are contracting the whole time while the release rotates itself around in my hand. When I am shooting bad I am not pulling through I am just letting the weight of the bow rotate the release...


As someone who is trying to become more consistent using my back muscles, I'm very much enjoying this thread. I'm learning to shoot a Scott Longhorn hinge and there have been some real pearls posted here that will help those who have chosen to undertake this method of shot execution.:wink:

Mason, could you explain further the difference between the feel you experience when allowing the weight of the bow rotate the release versus allowing it to rotate in your hand while pulling through the shot? Thanks. 

~Monti


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## viperarcher

you want to be aggressive and hold hard into the back wall of the cam , but you do not want the weight of the bow to activate the releases!! you want to pull hard into the back wall and push slightly toward the target and pull through with your release elbow straight back , causing your back muscles to come together!


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## montigre

viperarcher said:


> you want to be aggressive and hold hard into the back wall of the cam , but you do not want the weight of the bow to activate the releases!! you want to pull hard into the back wall and push slightly toward the target and pull through with your release elbow straight back , causing your back muscles to come together!


Thanks Viper--Now that I've started shooting spirals, I find I have to be more aggressive with my execution otherwise I get taken for a bit of a ride. :mg: Glad that does not happen very often. 

Also, sometimes while pulling into the wall, my bow is pulled off target--I don't grip hard. I'm assuming when this happens I'm not creating sufficient forward force to counteract the pulling action. Gotta find the balance. On the right track? TKS!


----------



## 4x20

Something I did not say in my post above is that I want to feel the release move in my hand. If I don't feel it move than it is too light and I will get timid with the shot. I have even went as far as getting 3 identical releases and setting them all different speeds and put them in my pouch and just pull one out without looking and shoot. The different speed releases kept me aggressive on the shot because one was set very heavy compared to the others. Most of the activation of the release is done with the hand by relaxing the middle finger and tighting the third and fourth finger but you must keep tension on the backwall fo everything to be consistant


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> master this !


Back to the Top ^^^^


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## Sib2009

*Too helpful*

Thanks everyone. This is very helpful.

I hope my surgically repaired shoulder will be 'blessing'.

I have not shot my bow in 3 months and I am determined to use BT for every shot I take after healing.

The muscles in my back, arm, neck, etc....are flabby now....can't workout for real (more than 5 pounds) for another 4-6 weeks.

So I hope it will be like starting over and I can forget all the bad 'shoot on demand' habits. It worked for me....but not enough to be seriously competitive in competitions.

I can shoot lights out in the backyard with family, but in a tourney or friendly shoot with friends...on demand just is not consistent enough.

So my shoulder will be better than ever....and I hope with practice so will my technique.

SibXSib


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


Master this! usaully takes about two weeks to train your brain and gain muscle memory!


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## viperarcher

ttt


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## jjmorrisjr

Great tips here.TTT:thumbs_up


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## hoyt3

I picked up a BT release yesterday and I have one question

Will/does your anchor point on your face change? Mine with a trigger wrist release I'd anchor around my ear, near the opening like nuts and bolts said to do...now, I'm down around my jaw bone...also, do you rotate your hand so the palm is facing away from you? 

This is a fun thing to learn...most of the time...in my first 50 arrows with it ever yesterday, there were a few times where I was thinking 'go off already!' But I thought I was doing something wrong, and this post confirms it.


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## field14

hoyt3 said:


> I picked up a BT release yesterday and I have one question
> 
> Will/does your anchor point on your face change? Mine with a trigger wrist release I'd anchor around my ear, near the opening like nuts and bolts said to do...now, I'm down around my jaw bone...also, do you rotate your hand so the palm is facing away from you?
> 
> This is a fun thing to learn...most of the time...in my first 50 arrows with it ever yesterday, there were a few times where I was thinking 'go off already!' But I thought I was doing something wrong, and this post confirms it.


Normally, your anchor is going to change, but the change, IMHO is for the better!
Most wrist strap shooters have their wrist strap set way too long....so that their first finger "hits" (and usually "punches") the trigger with the very tip of their first finger, thus their anchor is way, way back due to this length.
With a hand-held release however...
Behind the ear is a "loose" and hard to repeat anchor anyways, but under the jaw bone is way more consistent and solid.

SOME people have the flexibility to turn their palm out and away. Some shoot their hand positioning that way, but many do not.

If I rotate my hand that severely, I immediately feel a tightening up in my drawing fore-arm and the top of the drawing shoulder. I, along with many other shooters, opt for a solid, under the jawbone anchor, with the release hand at about 30 to 45 degrees, pinky up (NOT pinky down).

In addition, I would recommend NOT, I repeat, NOT changing the drawlength of the bow! Learn the new anchor by getting your stance straightened out, and your shoulders DOWN (BOTH shoulders, by the way), and relaxed, with a slightly bent (just not LOCKED) bowarm.

You are going to feel "cramped up" with regard to drawlength for several hundred shots, but it should come around.

By the way to prevent you from the "I shot better the other way" syndrome....take the wrist release and put it in the DRAWER at HOME...and don't have it available to you when you go to shoot. That will prevent you from slipping back to it cuz, "I don't shoot as good." It will take you TIME and PRACTICE to get used to the new anchor.

One last thing...your PEEP site will have to be moved UP on the bowstring to accomodate this lower anchor point...that is a good thing...you will then get more site/scope clearance at the longer distances, and your chin will level out when at full draw/anchor.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Gunner7800

field14 said:


> Normally, your anchor is going to change, but the change, IMHO is for the better!
> Most wrist strap shooters have their wrist strap set way too long....so that their first finger "hits" (and usually "punches") the trigger with the very tip of their first finger, thus their anchor is way, way back due to this length.
> With a hand-held release however...
> Behind the ear is a "loose" and hard to repeat anchor anyways, but under the jaw bone is way more consistent and solid.
> 
> SOME people have the flexibility to turn their palm out and away. Some shoot their hand positioning that way, but many do not.
> 
> If I rotate my hand that severely, I immediately feel a tightening up in my drawing fore-arm and the top of the drawing shoulder. I, along with many other shooters, opt for a solid, under the jawbone anchor, with the release hand at about 30 to 45 degrees, pinky up (NOT pinky down).
> 
> In addition, I would recommend NOT, I repeat, NOT changing the drawlength of the bow! Learn the new anchor by getting your stance straightened out, and your shoulders DOWN (BOTH shoulders, by the way), and relaxed, with a slightly bent (just not LOCKED) bowarm.
> 
> You are going to feel "cramped up" with regard to drawlength for several hundred shots, but it should come around.
> 
> By the way to prevent you from the "I shot better the other way" syndrome....take the wrist release and put it in the DRAWER at HOME...and don't have it available to you when you go to shoot. That will prevent you from slipping back to it cuz, "I don't shoot as good." It will take you TIME and PRACTICE to get used to the new anchor.
> 
> One last thing...your PEEP site will have to be moved UP on the bowstring to accomodate this lower anchor point...that is a good thing...you will then get more site/scope clearance at the longer distances, and your chin will level out when at full draw/anchor.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


Sorry for this post, it comes primarily from ignorance of shooting with BT and with good form, still trying to learn the methods.

One thought I have. You said to not change your draw length, but the peep sight will have to move, this is understandable. Along the same line of thinking, I put the string to the tip of my nose for another reference point. While using a wrist strap release I have to slightly tilt my head forward in order to get my nose to the string. 
Now when I shoot my T-handle release I usually put the first, or biggest, knuckle of my middle finger in notch behind my jaw bone behind my ear lobe, and still slightly tilt my head forward to get my nose to the string. If I were to move my anchor point down toward my jaw line any more I think I would have some major issues as far as form and consistency is concerned, not that either of them are that good anyway. The way I see it is I would have to lengthen my draw to get the string close enough to my nose in the first place. Or would it be best to not use my nose as another point of reference?

Any thoughts?


----------



## field14

Gunner7800 said:


> Sorry for this post, it comes primarily from ignorance of shooting with BT and with good form, still trying to learn the methods.
> 
> One thought I have. You said to not change your draw length, but the peep sight will have to move, this is understandable. Along the same line of thinking, I put the string to the tip of my nose for another reference point. While using a wrist strap release I have to slightly tilt my head forward in order to get my nose to the string.
> Now when I shoot my T-handle release I usually put the first, or biggest, knuckle of my middle finger in notch behind my jaw bone behind my ear lobe, and still slightly tilt my head forward to get my nose to the string. If I were to move my anchor point down toward my jaw line any more I think I would have some major issues as far as form and consistency is concerned, not that either of them are that good anyway. The way I see it is I would have to lengthen my draw to get the string close enough to my nose in the first place. Or would it be best to not use my nose as another point of reference?
> 
> Any thoughts?


Yes, a LOT of shooters that go from wrist pull to hand-held "think" they have to increase their drawlength of the BOW...when in reality, that isn't the case...they are used to pulling the string farther back and really having a "floating anchor"; they are also used to letting the bow shoulder come up and into their chin, lowering their chin to get to the lower peep, and then leaning back to accommodate the mis-alignments...NOT ALL OF THEM...but a goodly share have these "form inconsistencies".

MOST of those I've worked with on this transition have NOT had to lengthen their draw-length to get the string on their nose....quite the contrary! In addtion, MOST of the problem is because they are raising their bow shoulders to get "there", and as a result, everything is over stretched out...to where their alignment is out from the floor up, and especially with regard to head positioning and hips alignment.

You draw the string to you...you don't chase the string. By not overextending the shoulder, it won't come up, it will stay in position...by not moving your head, and having the shoulder down, relaxed and not hyperextended, NORMALLY, after some shooting, things will come around.

MOST of the time, it isn't a case of increasing the drawlength to get the string to you...it is from the shoulder and head and hip alignment standpoints.

Lastly, YES....most shooters do have the LIGHT contact on the tip of the nose as another check point...>SOME shooters don't, but having that string out in la-la land makes centering the scope in the peep and keeping your head positioning that much more difficult. SOME shooters do indeed draw the bowstring past the tip of their nose to the side of their nose...Duane Price comes to mind...but Duane has worked on that as part of his form and has it perfected...and Duane is one of the few to ever shoot 30 baby-X's in a round at the Vegas competition...ha.

field14 (Tom D)


----------



## Gunner7800

field14 said:


> Yes, a LOT of shooters that go from wrist pull to hand-held "think" they have to increase their drawlength of the BOW...when in reality, that isn't the case...they are used to pulling the string farther back and really having a "floating anchor"; they are also used to letting the bow shoulder come up and into their chin, lowering their chin to get to the lower peep, and then leaning back to accommodate the mis-alignments...NOT ALL OF THEM...but a goodly share have these "form inconsistencies".
> 
> MOST of those I've worked with on this transition have NOT had to lengthen their draw-length to get the string on their nose....quite the contrary! In addtion, MOST of the problem is because they are raising their bow shoulders to get "there", and as a result, everything is over stretched out...to where their alignment is out from the floor up, and especially with regard to head positioning and hips alignment.
> 
> You draw the string to you...you don't chase the string. By not overextending the shoulder, it won't come up, it will stay in position...by not moving your head, and having the shoulder down, relaxed and not hyperextended, NORMALLY, after some shooting, things will come around.
> 
> MOST of the time, it isn't a case of increasing the drawlength to get the string to you...it is from the shoulder and head and hip alignment standpoints.
> 
> Lastly, YES....most shooters do have the LIGHT contact on the tip of the nose as another check point...>SOME shooters don't, but having that string out in la-la land makes centering the scope in the peep and keeping your head positioning that much more difficult. SOME shooters do indeed draw the bowstring past the tip of their nose to the side of their nose...Duane Price comes to mind...but Duane has worked on that as part of his form and has it perfected...and Duane is one of the few to ever shoot 30 baby-X's in a round at the Vegas competition...ha.
> 
> field14 (Tom D)



Ok, so what is a good reference or anchor point? I've really paid attention to my shoulder making sure to keep it down and in the socket and have noticed a slightly steadier sight window. I've started using a hinge style release lately and have also noticed I am having inconsistancies by not having a comfortable or consistant anchor point. I guess it's because I have never been taught HOW to shoot, unless you want to count the internet as an instructor.


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## field14

Gunner7800 said:


> Ok, so what is a good reference or anchor point? I've really paid attention to my shoulder making sure to keep it down and in the socket and have noticed a slightly steadier sight window. I've started using a hinge style release lately and have also noticed I am having inconsistancies by not having a comfortable or consistant anchor point. I guess it's because I have never been taught HOW to shoot, unless you want to count the internet as an instructor.


Under the jawbone with the "space" between the first and second knuckle on the top of your drawing hand. There is a small "dent" right in front of the upward turn (I'm NOT going to use anatomical terms here, for simplicity sake, OK?) of your jawbone as it "heads up" towards the front of the ear opening. If you place your Knuckle space here, it is rock solid! If you place your hand behind that point, it is super easy to move your hand up and down and also forward and back! There is simply too much "loose area" here, IMHO.
If you anchor on the side of your "cheek" then the loose tissue there allows the same thing; your hand can easily be moved up and down and forward and back!

You have to PICK ONE and only ONE solid and repeatable anchor point and get used to it by practicing the ONE and only ONE anchor over and over and over again. Within a hundred or so shots, you will start to know when it is "right" or not. Personally, I don't use "kisser" buttons, because that is just one more thing to have "move" slightly, come loose, or possibly fall off entirely. I do use several "check points" for my anchor, however.

That "dent" I mentioned is one of them, SLIGHT contact of the string just in front of the corner of the mouth is the second, and the third is LIGHT contact of the bow-string on my nose.
Again, you draw the string to YOU....you don't Chase the string" and wiffle-waffle around by moving your head up and down, left and right, and settling in for 3-5 seconds (see a lot of people doing this...and they are losing TIME and losing "consistencty")....IF you have to "hunt for it" then your anchor isn't right, agreed? So, if you are "hunting for it", you put it down and start over!

IMHO, it is easy to get the peep too LOW indoors, but it is also to have it too HIGH for outdoors. FOR ME, over the years, I know that I move my peep DOWN 2mm for OUTDOORS from what my INDOOR setup is.

Hope this helps.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Gunner7800

This is a HUGE help. Thanks for your time and responses.


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## viperarcher

viperarcher said:


> Blind bale shooting is something that you want to spend some time with, It will give you tremendous advantage! Help you really get the feel of your release and what a good shot feels like. http://www.archeryfix.com/Blind-bail-training.htm


master This!


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## YZ125MM700

What's a good BT type release to start out with?


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## jerhalco

After 4 weeks of using Field14's methods I feel I can with confidence state that they work. I do have the luxury of every week or two checking in with Coach Tom and having a form check. I use the Evolution release set by Tom never changed by me and just shoot shoot shoot!!!! If it (the shot) doesn't go off I let down, reset and concentrate on form and it will go off I guarantee you. I am already better than before using the Evolution. The surprise release is present and it works just like Tom said it would. Find someone to work with because all the talk of sometimes this release has a change in release weight is all in form problems, IMHO. I have not used a hinge and don't feel the need to. I am going to stick with the Evolution but it is working for me so why change. Yesterday I had two fellow shooters watch me, heckle me and I still was able to concentrate on form and get a strong shot. This is in preparation for competition pressure, it works!! Tom then came did a short form check and my shooting session was over!!
Jerry


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## field14

It is a luxury to have a "student" that is willing to work, is willing to "set it and forget it", and that won't tinker with anything and just shoot, shoot, shoot, and work on the current set-up without fail. It sure makes life easier on both the student and the coach.

One other thing that helps immensely with this Evolution is having a bow where a the shooter can hit the "to anchor" drawlength within 1/16" every single time without having to hunt for it. In addition, this gives you the SAME "Holding weight" everytime as well, so obviously, with this sort of consistency, shooting the Evolution becomes a "snap". (pun intended).

Jerry shoots a Merlin Excalibur.

We have another shooter that just got his Merlin Excalibur yesterday. He changed from his other brand of bow that was shooting 57 pounds and holding 9.9. The new Excalibur is set at 54# and holds 19.8 pounds. The shooter was having problems trying to "find" the same to anchor DL with his other bow, and of course, this was moving what little holding weight he had all over the board too...

With the MERLIN Excalibur, he now has a _constant holding weight_, _dead on (within 1/16") his "to anchor DL_", and some "_resistance" to help him USE the right muscles to draw and hold the bow_. Results for him with his new Excalibur were instantaneous! He started shooting 4 and 5X ends immediately, with the majority of them inside out....not all of them, but 3 or 4 out of 5 were inside out X's most of the time! 
This person has more experience with the Evo+ than Jerry, but this person too, once things are set...LEAVES THEM ALONE and doesn't fiddle with things.

With the Evo+, if your "to anchor DL" is correct (not within 1/2", Ha), and you get the same holding weight and positioning every time...shooting the release is nearly a cinch. Like Jerry says, if it won't fire...YOU have not set that particular shot up correctly...let down, refresh, re-start, and go for it. The only thing you have to lose by NOT letting down...is a point or two more off of your score. You have 4 minutes for 5 shots...use them when you have to.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## sunsignarcher

V.A.S.A said:


> *I posted a comment to a thread regarding shooting with Reo Wilde. I had the honor of practicing with him on the side range at Lancaster in 2009. I had no idea who he actually was until after we finished in practice, But I couldnt help notice he was different from all of the other shooters I had seen.,,He never missed an X that day....even on the qualifying round. He shot a perfect 60 X ( super X's) I was fortunate enough along with my cousin Chris to be able to hang with the Wilde Bunch for a bit and even get some personalized 1on 1 free training on using the Scott Longhorn Pro Release, Reo is the master of that Release for sure. He settles in with it then relaxes the index finger to cause the shot....But he focuses on aiming. You have to program your shot sequence so it becomes secondary and subconcious, Then it will all fall into place. I would like to add that the Wildes are a great group....Dee and Reo and Logan as well...great archers and a great asset to archery. Check out Reo's website,
> 
> http//www.Reowilde.com*


Were they using a clicker on their longhorns?

I've been using the clicker the way Bernie teaches for years and feel it's time to graduate and loose the click or move to a thumb.

The clicker was necessary for me to get bt down now I feel like the training wheels need to come off. Am I on the right track here?


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## drayegon

*three types of release's*



viperarcher said:


> The best way to learn backtension is Blind bale shooting, back tension release is a term, that can be applied action to any release. At full draw when you settle into your anchor point, and start the aiming process, push toward the target with your bow arm and pull straite back with your release elbow, like there was a string attatched to your elbow and someone was pulling on it! Just lay your finger or thumb on the trigger, the action of pushing and pulling will activate the release to make a clean break from the D-loop. You will feel your back muscles come together like you was squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades.


I am having a bit of a problem with the semantics in this statement. I happen to have three different releases. One is a Cobra Strap type the next is a TRU BALL Diamond Pro Extreme. The last is a Hot Shot.

Each of them is set up according to the Manufacturers directions. I do not shoot the strap type much anymore simply do not like it that well. That is personal nothing against the release. The Hot Shot is a real Back tension release and I shot it when doing target shooting almost all the time. Now I do Have my TRU BALL 4 finger set up almost to the back tension point. My reason for using the Diamond when hunting is that it is super quite. I mean zero noise. Between that and my Hoyt Maxxis 35 at 68 pounds. I have yet to have anything be able to duck a string on me.

Yes It is all in the pull and push Once you have that down pat it will always fire when the moment is really right.

I did start shooting the back tension release while I was only shooting 62pounds of draw at a 400 nano carbon St Axis. With the 125 grain broadheads and 4 fletch arrows I am still shooting at 280fps I think now that I have changed my limbs to shoot more weight I may shoot lighter broadheads. I think the Three River Broadhead at 100grains and then when I put lighted nocks on them I can drop a number 5 bird shot in the cavity of the head

VA's description is very good still some folks I think got the wrong Idea that the Back tension release is the same as the other two.

73
dray


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## The Swami

Back tension is a method, not a type of release.

The back tension method can be applied to any release providing you can set it up correctly.

You can use the method on hinge releases, index triggered releases and thumb triggered releases or a release like the Evolution.

On the other hand, you can punch or command shoot all those types of releases too.

I don't push and pull, I use the back tension method.


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## wyoming4x4

*Bernies stuff i awesome!*



fatboyshooter said:


> Idiot Proof Archery is a book U should read if U want some great advice on shooting back tension, I took all of Bernie's advice on aiming and allowing the bow to fire rather than making the bow fire, his book took me from target panic patient to having fun shooting competitive 3-D.


 Been watching the shooter school dvd's, 1#-6# awesome stuff. The one thing I never considered is your bow reaction per shot. He shows you what your bow is suppose to do if done properly. definetly something to learn. We can talk about it but once you see it problem answered and something to work on. I've modified my draw lenght to get the proper effect. many factors come into play but Once you see it and feel it you'll know what to do. when shooting proper backtension. Catch you later and keep on shootin!


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## viperarcher

The Swami said:


> Back tension is a method, not a type of release.
> 
> The back tension method can be applied to any release providing you can set it up correctly.
> 
> You can use the method on hinge releases, index triggered releases and thumb triggered releases or a release like the Evolution.
> 
> On the other hand, you can punch or command shoot all those types of releases too.
> 
> I don't push and pull, I use the back tension method.


yep , Back tension is a method or an action !


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## buckeye_girl

YZ125MM700 said:


> What's a good BT type release to start out with?


I absolutely fell in love with the Truball HT3. A very comfortable release, 3 different sizes, you can change the hotness. I doubt I will be changing anytime soon.


----------



## IGluIt4U

V.A.S.A said:


> *I posted a comment to a thread regarding shooting with Reo Wilde. I had the honor of practicing with him on the side range at Lancaster in 2009. I had no idea who he actually was until after we finished in practice, But I couldnt help notice he was different from all of the other shooters I had seen.,,He never missed an X that day....even on the qualifying round. He shot a perfect 60 X ( super X's) I was fortunate enough along with my cousin Chris to be able to hang with the Wilde Bunch for a bit and even get some personalized 1on 1 free training on using the Scott Longhorn Pro Release, Reo is the master of that Release for sure. He settles in with it then relaxes the index finger to cause the shot....But he focuses on aiming. You have to program your shot sequence so it becomes secondary and subconcious, Then it will all fall into place. I would like to add that the Wildes are a great group....Dee and Reo and Logan as well...great archers and a great asset to archery. Check out Reo's website,
> 
> http//www.Reowilde.com*


I shot next to him that day.. he is an amazing machine for sure.. :thumb: :cheers:

He shot the First perfect LAS round.. :nod: :wink:


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## target1

He is awesome alright


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## waterop

*finger shooter*

Back tension is a method, not a type of release. I and was wonder how dose it work for finger shooter?


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## cath8r

Interesting thread guys! 
I shot a hinge release only for almost 3 years, got away from it and shot a thumb button for a couple and found myself going back to my beat up old hinge recently (Carter Atension). 
When you really get the hang of shooting a hinge release, its more of an athletic move than something you finesse. If that makes any sense. 
Your shot from start to finish is more of an ingrained act that allows you to focus on the spot you are trying to hit than all the parts of setting your shot up. 
One thing I maybe dissagree with what was said earlier,is that a rock hard back wall isn't for everybody and can, I feel, be detrimental to some getting the hang of a back tension style of shooting. Too hard of a wall can pull someones bow out of allignment and cause left/right issues. For some (me) a tiny bit of sponge in the back wall can help, especially with uneven footing encountered in field or 3D. It can absorb that little bit of draw length change that can happen when one foot sits higher than the other. 
Eric Griggs wrote a really good reply to a thread a few years ago about BT that really puts his thoughts on the matter into words and explained it in a very easy to understand way. If someone could find it it would add to this thread.


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## drayegon

*If this were only true!*



waterop said:


> Back tension is a method, not a type of release. I and was wonder how dose it work for finger shooter?


If this is the gospel then why do the different rags out there list some releases as one type of action or the other and then list a "BACK RELEASE" as a totally different type of release?

Sorry to upset apple carts out there but ya'll can't have it both ways.


dray


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## cath8r

People can shoot index finger wrist style releases with back tension ie: Michael Braden, Tom Crowe etc.
Thumb Button and Hinge Style releases can help make it easier for most to shoot with pure back tension, but many have mastered the art of commanding these release too. 
Back Tension is a manner of getting your release to fire without commanding it to fire through training your body and mind to work together so you can focus on aiming while your back muscles, skeleton and form do the rest. It doesn't mater which release you use. They can all be 'punched' and they can all be 'back tensioned'.


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## drayegon

*apples to oranges*

Is it using back tension to release the arrow or are you hitting the trigger to release the arrow?

If you are using back tension to get the arrow to release. Then all you have to do is increase the back tension to get a release. You do not touch the trigger or release another time.

If you are instead using back tension to help you get a better aim on the target. That is all well and good. Yet you are still touching the trigger again to get a release.

dray


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## cchunter

*Back Tension*

Visit John Dudley's web site and click on the articals that deal with back tension and you will learn what you need to know about making a clean surprise shot with a back tension


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## drayegon

*Some folks Just don't get it!*

I am not saying that you should not use all the tricks you can to make your shots better.

I am saying that there are releases that do use actual back tension to fire. Those particular releases fire all on their lonesome by using back tension.

In other words you are not creating more pressure on the trigger by using back muscle tension. Once you have cocked the release it fires by simply creating more tension on the release not causing tension on the trigger portion of the release.

Folks we have apples and oranges here. I can use back tension method to get a release by increasing the tension on the trigger at the same time I am pulling harder on the release as well.

I can how ever. Pull the string back to the let down point. Then trigger the release. Then it will fire all by itself with out me having a finger or thumb on the button or firing lever. It fires simply because I have pulled enough harder on the release itself, This is without touching the trigger again.

I am really sorry but some of you are not getting it. Method and hardware are two different things.

Same as I am getting from some old time bow hunters that are on me about using a red dot sight to hunt with.

Yes I have a red dot bow sight that does not use electronics to shot with. It works super great at first and last light as well. I was told by some one who shall remain nameless at a state Government Fish and Game Dept that It had to be electronic and so it had to be illegal. Sorry but it is already approved by Pope and Young. I checked.

That comes to another question. Why does Pope and Young as well as Different States care if I have a lighted arrow Nock? All it does is let me find my arrow. Even better if that arrow is still in the Animal. Keeps me from loosing a down animal right?

dray


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## Mathewsman222

What is Blind Bale Shooting?


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## field14

Mathewsman222 said:


> What is Blind Bale Shooting?


There are several variants of "blind bale shooting".

One involves just shooting at the bale with no target on it and not aiming at anything...and just tryin to learn what it is like to shoot the RELEASE without trying for pin-point accuracy. This helps you to learn the RELEASE mechanism.

Then...there is one method that incorporates the bale, no target, and closing your eyes once you reach anchor...in order to teach you what it FEELS LIKE to activate a shot without any visual references or cues. You CAN learn to feel the proper muscles working correctly in order to execute the shot.

The one I came up with is one that uses a TARGET at full distance, for score...However, the rule is simple....You pre-aim, draw back the bow, center up the shot with eyes open, anchor, CLOSE YOUR EYES, and NO PUNCHING, finish the shot with normal execution...WITH YOUR EYES COMPLETELY SHUT until you hear the arrow impact the target.

This is FOR SCORE. Can YOU shoot a "25" with your eyes closed? YES YOU CAN! Heck if the fieldman can do it, anyone can, haha.

I"ve personally shot as high as a 98 "game" out of 100 possible with this method; never have shot a perfect 100 game. I also have shot a lot of 5X ends with my eyes closed too!

After a period of time, if you do this properly, you not only learn the proper execution of the RELEASE...but, since you cannot just focus exclusively on the release...but rather your SHOT PROCCESS from anchor thru to arrow impact...you learn to KNOW what little nuances are creeping into your form that your eyes are correcting..but not quite.
Your misses with this method are magnified, and it helps you to isolate those form errors, or those little things you do that you shouldn't...and you learn from this.

I coach my students to keep score and to take pictures of the target after each end is concluded. This way, you not only see the final target when you finish your "game"...but you have a pictorial record of the changes, end by end.

You can expect some 'humility' when you shoot only a 19 or 20 on your first end! However, it won't be long until you start sensing the little movements and tweaks due to misalignment, finger positioning, anchor variances, head positioning....that are screwing you up when you have your eyes open.

This is a lot of FUN as well, and a heckuva challenge to make your practice sessions less boring.

One of my students shot a "25" on only the second end he tried it!! Another student had been shooting some 60X rounds...but had a tendency to miss high right when he did miss the X, and the same on his field rounds...when he missed...High right most of the time. He went "Blind Bale"...and his first end was a 16....most all of his arrows HIGH RIGHT (without his eyes). Then, his 2nd end was, If I recall an 18...but he dumped one low left (over-corrected). He didn't shoot a "25" during his first game.
However a few weeks later, he told me he had to go to a 5-spot face so that he wouldn't ruin arrows! He was shooting lots of "25's" with his eyes closed.
His X-count stabilized, and his inside out X's went WAY UP. He said right at first, he was concentrating on the release and NOT MOVING....instead of...."SHOOTING THE ENTIRE SHOT".

I can shoot "blank bale" (no target on the bale, either eyes open or eyes closed) all day long and execute perfectly...but put that target up there, and it is another ball game. That is why I came up with the BLIND BALE TECHNIQUE...FOR SCORE...and learned that FOR ME...it is better to concentrate on the ENTIRE SHOT, rather than just the release...and learn to TRUST THE FORM to execute the shot.

Yes, you CAN shoot "25's" with your eyes CLOSED...it is that simple...if you TRUST THE FORM, and SHOOT THE SHOT.

field14


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## redman

More info on this would be great


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## field14

redman said:


> More info on this would be great


"ProActive Archery". Google it and you will find it immediately. I'm the author. It is in Chapters 17 & 18, mostly Chapter 18


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