# 2010 AAE Arizona Cup



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

2010 AAE Arizona Cup Information and Registration webpage: www.arizonacup.com 
Registration available online via Compete-At
The event is an Adult, Junior and Cadet US Archery Team Placement event: http://usarchery.org/blog/post/1498 
And
FITA COPARCO World Ranking Tournament


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

The FAQs say that cadets are not eligible to compete in team rounds -- I assume this is because they will shoot at 60 for the qualification rounds. Is this true, or can they form a team and compete with the others if they shoot at 70m?


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

I have a few questions about the tournament. 

I have never been to the AZ cup before, but I plan to compete this year. Have they decided how late the check-in and equipment inspection will be running? I don't want to miss school if I don't have to. Do you think I could run over to Ben Avery after school and get there in time?

Also, it mentions individual rounds on Sunday. Is everybody going to compete in these? What would happen if I were to miss them? 

Thanks!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

archerymom2 said:


> The FAQs say that cadets are not eligible to compete in team rounds -- I assume this is because they will shoot at 60 for the qualification rounds. Is this true, or can they form a team and compete with the others if they shoot at 70m?


The FAQ regarding the Cadets and team rounds are correct. At the archers option, those below Junior age can register as a Junior or an adult, shoot 70 meters, and take part in the appropriately eligible team rounds.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Sighting In said:


> I have a few questions about the tournament.
> 
> I have never been to the AZ cup before, but I plan to compete this year. Have they decided how late the check-in and equipment inspection will be running? I don't want to miss school if I don't have to. Do you think I could run over to Ben Avery after school and get there in time?
> 
> ...


Equipment inspection is noted on the schedule. 
Sometimes archers are unable to have their equipment inspected on time due to various reasons. Examples are: flight delays, lost luggage, traffic delay or circumstances outside of the archers control. In these cases, tournaments try to accommodate the archer. The problem arises when half of the archers want to check in and have their equipment inspected late. Such and occurrence would delay and adversely affect the entire tournament.

Is it possible for an archer to check in late? As mentioned above, yes. 
Is it universally permitted? As mentioned above, no. 

So what is the right thing to do? Contact the tournament, let them know of your circumstance and how you plan to meet the schedule. But inform them that you may need special accommodation and provide reasons why. At some point the tournament may need to explain to the rest of the archers, why an archer received special treatment. The reason should be one that is virtually universally accepted by the archers, such that, if they were in the same circumstance, they would want to be accommodated the same way.

Here is an example: 
“I was delayed because there was a long line at Starbucks. The rest of the archers would say, “Get up earlier and get in line earlier”
In contrast one might report “I was delayed because I had to give CPR to an accident victim” I think the archers as a whole would accept such an reason.

Delayed archers must sometimes sacrifice practice time to execute check in and equipment inspection as tourney staff tasks would have them otherwise occupied. In such cases the archer is asked to accommodate the tournament so that the tournament can accommodate the archer.

It is important for the tournament “customers” to make comments and requests. Tournament should consider schedule changes if a significant number of archers offer reasons for a change. By doing so, tournaments have a better change of attracting customers. The more customers, the better opportunity for a tournament to host a quality and meaningful event. With the advent of a plentiful number of USAT placement tournaments, the AZ Cup is more of a regional event. This allows the tournament to end on Sunday since many can fly or drive back home and be at work or school on Monday. Again, service to the archers is a priority.

Sunday.
Everyone that makes the cut to 64 and wants to shoot, typically shoots the elimination round. Sometimes an archer, for whatever reason, will declare that they are only taking part in the qualifying rounds and does not intend to take part in the individual elimination round. By declaring that they are only taking part in the ranking round, they often allow someone that would not be able to take part because of ranking to take part. Early declaration is helpful to avoid electronic scoring and automatic flow chart seeding issues and the resultant delay.

Thank you for considering the AAE Arizona Cup.


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Serious Fun said:


> It is important for the tournament “customers” to make comments and requests. Tournament should consider schedule changes if a significant number of archers offer reasons for a change. By doing so, tournaments have a better change of attracting customers. The more customers, the better opportunity for a tournament to host a quality and meaningful event. With the advent of a plentiful number of USAT placement tournaments, the AZ Cup is more of a regional event. This allows the tournament to end on Sunday since many can fly or drive back home and be at work or school on Monday. Again, service to the archers is a priority.


On this note, I would like to suggest that Cadets be allowed to shoot in the team round against Juniors and Adults. Asking them to register as Juniors for the whole event is not realistic for those who are trying to qualify for Jr. USAT as a cadet. 

The added tournament team experience would be a great benefit to these youth, who may find themselves representing the US in interntational team competitions. And it would not be a detriment to the others. They could start at the bottom of the seeding, since they won't have any 70 scores to compare to Jr. and Adult teams. 

Just a thought on how to make the tournament better for a wider range of ages...


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## Valkyrie (Dec 3, 2002)

Any idea when the last arrow shot will be on Sunday? 

Would like to attend this tournament again but with the change to Sunday shooting, I'm having a hard time getting a flight back to the midwest.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Hi Ann,
From the 2010 AAE Arizona Cup Schedule Page http://www.azjoad.com/2010azcup/WEB/2010_schedule.pdf

Excerpt:
_“Our goal is to run the tournament timing as close as possible to this schedule, however, weather delays, protests, and/or other situations may arise beyond our control. The organizers reserve the right to modify the tournament format, if necessary. Announcements will be made at the field, during Team Meetings and posted at the venue and on the website. The elimination rounds (OR rounds) competition may extend up to sunset on Sunday April 11, 2010. If the tournament is stopped before completion, then the current archer standings at that time will be considered final. ..” _ 
Sunset in Phoenix on April 11, 2010 is at 6:56 PM.

In 2009 AAE AZ Cup medal matches began around 2:00 PM and were completed around 3:30. The awards ceremony took place at 4:00 followed by USADA testing of the selected medalist. BUT, the 2010 AAE AZ Cup will utilize the new “Set System”. As a result the normal timing without delays is unpredictable. 

As for traveling to the midwest and east coast of the US, there are night flights from Sky Harbor to points east. A variety of night flights leave Las Vegas Sunday night and arrive early Monday morning. The flight from PHX to LAS is a 70 minutes. Hi Ann,
From the 2010 AAE Arizona Cup Schedule Page http://www.azjoad.com/2010azcup/WEB/2010_schedule.pdf

Excerpt:
“Our goal is to run the tournament timing as close as possible to this schedule, however, weather delays, protests, and/or other situations may arise beyond our control. The organizers reserve the right to modify the tournament format, if necessary. Announcements will be made at the field, during Team Meetings and posted at the venue and on the website. The elimination rounds (OR rounds) competition may extend up to sunset on Sunday April 11, 2010. If the tournament is stopped before completion, then the current archer standings at that time will be considered final. ..” 
Sunset in Phoenix on April 11, 2010 is at 6:56 PM.

In 2009 AAE AZ Cup medal matches began around 2:00 PM and were completed around 3:30. The awards ceremony took place at 4:00 followed by USADA testing of the selected medalist. BUT, the 2010 AAE AZ Cup will utilize the new “Set System”. As a result the normal timing without delays is unpredictable. 

As for traveling to the midwest and east coast of the US, there are night flights from Sky Harbor to points east. A variety of night flights leave Las Vegas Sunday night and arrive early Monday morning. The flight from Phx to LAS is a 70 minute flight. Its nice having USAT tourney with a major airport in the same city.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

archerymom2 said:


> On this note, I would like to suggest that Cadets be allowed to shoot in the team round against Juniors and Adults. Asking them to register as Juniors for the whole event is not realistic for those who are trying to qualify for Jr. USAT as a cadet.
> 
> The added tournament team experience would be a great benefit to these youth, who may find themselves representing the US in interntational team competitions. And it would not be a detriment to the others. They could start at the bottom of the seeding, since they won't have any 70 scores to compare to Jr. and Adult teams.
> 
> Just a thought on how to make the tournament better for a wider range of ages...


We are beginning to soften on Cadets in the Open Team rounds. Since Cadets would be ranked with a zero open team round ranking score. Adding Cadets could be done for up to sixteen teams in each of the four Open Team round categories. Question is, would more than a couple Cadets want to take part? Or is this something we can deal with at the tourney on a case by case basis?


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## Landed in AZ (May 11, 2008)

*Hotels*

The host hotel gave an awesome rate this year at $79/night. The Crown Plaza is 17 miles from Ben Avery and in years past that drive was somewhat of a nightmare because of the construction on I-17. The construction is now DONE. . 

I also want to point out that the Hampton Inn in Anthem at exit #229, just 6 miles north of Ben Avery exit (#223) is showing $99/night regular rate and if you advance purchase in January it is $84.99/night. 

For those that have not been here before, when you see the signs on the roads that say "photo enforcement" that means for speeding. If you see a bright light flash in your face, they just took a picture of your face and your license plate so they can mail you a ticket. The ones on the freeways won't get you until you are 11 mph over the speed limit, but the ones on the surface streets might be different, I am not sure.


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

Serious Fun said:


> We are beginning to soften on Cadets in the Open Team rounds. Since Cadets would be ranked with a zero open team round ranking score. Adding Cadets could be done for up to sixteen teams in each of the four Open Team round categories. Question is, would more than a couple Cadets want to take part? Or is this something we can deal with at the tourney on a case by case basis?


What does that do to World Ranking and Star FITA status?


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

sundevilarchery said:


> What does that do to World Ranking and Star FITA status?


 The softening is for the Open Team Round as opposed to the strictly ranked Mixed and National Member Association Team Round per the 2010 FITA rule book 1 and 2.

Right now, "only one single solitary Cadet parent" has expressed interest in having a Cadet take part in the Open Team Round. Perhaps interest will increase after the indoor season.


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

I would be careful about doing this. By adding the cadets in as "last" you ruin the integrity of the brackets. It is possible that the cadet team entered may not be the worst team, and theirfor the advantage earned by the first place qualifer is no longer there. Then the second place qualfier will compete against the team the first place team was supposed to...this continues through every bracket and every round. It isnt fair to the field to allow it.



Serious Fun said:


> We are beginning to soften on Cadets in the Open Team rounds. Since Cadets would be ranked with a zero open team round ranking score. Adding Cadets could be done for up to sixteen teams in each of the four Open Team round categories. Question is, would more than a couple Cadets want to take part? Or is this something we can deal with at the tourney on a case by case basis?


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Xs24-7 said:


> I would be careful about doing this. By adding the cadets in as "last" you ruin the integrity of the brackets. It is possible that the cadet team entered may not be the worst team, and theirfor the advantage earned by the first place qualifer is no longer there. Then the second place qualfier will compete against the team the first place team was supposed to...this continues through every bracket and every round. It isnt fair to the field to allow it.


 Thank you for offering an archers perspective. Tournament hosts tend to focus on inclusion. Archers and coaches have a varied focus as goals differs.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

In addition to being selected as a COPARCO World Ranking Tournament, the 2010 AAE Arizona Cup has just been placed on the FITA Para Archery Calendar as an International Tournament.

More info at FITA: http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Do...adlines/2010/0125_Para Archery Calendar-e.pdf 

More Para Archery news from the newly formed FITA Para Archery Committee in this FITA article http://www.archery.org/content.asp?me_id=836&cnt_id=4532


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Preliminary National (FITA Member Associations) Teams, Notice of intent to take part in the tournament, deadline is March 11, 2010. Essential for scheduling of National team and Mixed team rounds.
www.arizonacup.com


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

We ask for National Team Preliminary Registrations so that the tournament can set the schedule for National and National Mixed team rounds based on the number of anticipated teams. National teams, please submit your National Team Preliminary Registration forms. Thank you!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

NOTE: 
The 2010 AAE AZ Cup schedule is regional friendly with official practice on Thursday April 8, competition scoring arrows beginning Friday April 9 and ending Sunday April 11. www.arizonacup.com 

Ideal for archers from California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Sonora and Baja that can drive to a FITA World Ranking Tournament and USAT placement event all in one with a minimum of missed work or school days.

Thursday, April 8th 
Official Practice

Friday, April 9th 
72 @ 70/60 Qualification Round
Open Team Rounds

Saturday, April 10th
72 @ 70/60 Qualification Round
National/Mixed Team Rounds

Sunday, April 11th
Set System 70M Elimination Rounds


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

As of March 17 there are 158 registrants, 50% more than the same time last year. New this year is Cadet and Junior US Archery Team placement and FITA Para Archery sanctioning. Please sign up on time. See you in sunny AZ.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Deadline: Must be received by March 25, 2010 – Space is limited to the field capacity so register early. 
Registrations received after March 25 will be assessed a late fee. There is no on-site registration.

2010 AAE Arizona Cup Ben Avery Shooting Facility FITA Range has a capacity of approximately 250. There are 170 entries as of early afternoon today (March 19, 2010). 
Archers are encouraged to submit entry forms and payments to be received before the deadline.
Thank you


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> Deadline: Must be received by March 25, 2010 – Space is limited to the field capacity so register early.
> Registrations received after March 25 will be assessed a late fee. There is no on-site registration.
> 
> 2010 AAE Arizona Cup Ben Avery Shooting Facility FITA Range has a capacity of approximately 250. There are 170 entries as of early afternoon today (March 19, 2010).
> ...


I heard from the grapevine that there are some youths that are planning on coming but have not sent in their entries. Please do so, as there is a movement to conduct some Cadet activities depending on the number of participants. Be counted so that you can be heard. I sound like a Census worker.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Thank you to the seventeen that the 2010 AAE AZ Cup received registrations from today! www.arizonacup.com 

Also, note that all, including *guests*, can take part in a 72 arrow qualifier and set matches at the *2010 ASAA Outdoors on April 3 on the same Ben Avery field.* http://www.azjoad.com/2010/2010_ASAA_Outdoor.htm 
A mini version of the AZ Cup with JOAD distances too.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

March 23, AM - Two Hundred and Twelve registered.

We are getting calls that check are in the mail or planning on registering online. 

Note that the mail can be slow so please use express mail services. 
Also note that the internet is not perfect so if you plan on registering online, allow for glitches and delays.

See you on the field!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> March 23, AM - Two Hundred and Twelve registered.
> 
> We are getting calls that checks are in the mail or planning on registering online.
> 
> ...


33 in the mail today for a total of 245 AAE AZ Cup archers.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

The 2010 AAE Arizona Cup field at the Ben Avery Shooting Facility, Phoenix, is now full! (Space maybe available for Cadets)

We have started a waiting list of those that would like to take part should space become available.
If you are registered but will not be competing, please email [email protected] and cancel as soon as possible, so that another can take your place.

The registration list is being reviewed and will be updated. 

Thank you for your patronage!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Revised *Entry List *3-31-2010
Revised *Schedule* 3-31-2010
Visit www.arizonacup.com


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*If you cannot make it to the 2010 AAE Arizona Cup, Please email [email protected] as soon as possible cancel.*

If you cancel and we fill your space, we will refund your entry fee minus the handling costs.

_We have a long waiting list of paid archers that are eager to take part in the tournament._

On behalf of those on the waiting list, Thank you!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

So you are not taking part in the 2010 AAE AZ Cup.
Not to worry, register for the *2010 Doinker Texas Shootout!*
http://www.tamuarchery.com/Tx shootout/Info_2010_Doinker_Texas_Shootout.htm
Make sure you get in by signing up early for the second outdoor Cadet, Junior and Senior USAT placement tournament of 2010.

Remember, weather, protest and other un foreseeable circumstances can delay a tournament. Make sure your travel plans take into account potential schedule changes. Radical schedule changed can and do happen at local, national and international level competitions.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Thank you to the registered archers that have let us know that you will not be coming to the tournament.

2010 AAE AZ Cup registered archers:
Please contact the tournament immediately at [email protected] and 602-228-0465 if you are not able to come as there are many that would like to compete if space opens up.


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## bjones00 (Jan 20, 2009)

*Another Team Question*

Does someone have to qualify in a particular division to shoot the team round in the same division? ie; If someone shot there qualification scores with a recureve and was asked to hop in on a compound team, with there own coumpound bow, could it be done? And just take a zero for that members ranking score?


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

bjones00 said:


> Does someone have to qualify in a particular division to shoot the team round in the same division? ie; If someone shot there qualification scores with a recureve and was asked to hop in on a compound team, with there own coumpound bow, could it be done? And just take a zero for that members ranking score?


There will be no need for mixed category open teams in the 2010 AZ Cup due to the record number of participants. Mixing tends to happen in smaller tournaments. The team rounds will be well organized and fun with strictly in category archer teams.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

A nice day.
After a week of winds due to a cold front moving thru, a warm calm day for official practice. In spite of a freeway closure due to a major accident. All arrived, checked in, had equipment inspection and practiced for an extended period. The three hundred Cadet, Junior, Para and Senior Archers have some full days ahead filled with competition fun.


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks for the update -- keep 'em coming! And good luck to all!:teeth:


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## aggiearcher09 (Aug 14, 2008)

Why is live scoring not working?


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## aggiearcher09 (Aug 14, 2008)

nevermind it just changed its mind and wanted to work


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

WOW!!! This live scoring thing is AWESOME!!! Great job AZ Cup!
:teeth:


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Results for those who only stick to AT:

After 36 arrows:
Recurve men - Kaminski, Eliison, Stanwood
Compound men - Cousins, Trillus, Christenberry
Recurve women - Nichols, Valencia, Orta
Compound women - Van Natta, Soemod, Crisanto

-Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm assuming the column headings on the live feed are wrong -- all arrows are shot at 70m, right?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Yes 



archerymom2 said:


> I'm assuming the column headings on the live feed are wrong -- all arrows are shot at 70m, right?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

anybody have the direct URL to the live scoring page.


Anybody want to post the current standings for Recurve Cadet Women


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

www.ianseo.net/Details.php?toId=57 

Hope this helps,
Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> www.ianseo.net/Details.php?toId=57


That's what I had:
http://www.ianseo.net/Details.php?toId=57

I get :
"No Results! 
Back "


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## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

Cadets shoot in the afternoon. They may not have started yet!


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## NJ Lady Archer (Feb 24, 2005)

*Live Scoring AZ Cup*

http://www.ianseo.net/Details.php?toId=57

For live scoring. It is down right now.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Casualfoto said:


> Cadets shoot in the afternoon. They may not have started yet!


Right, but I should see _something_... 

Meanwhile, my cohort here at the office is watching a live feed of T!g&r W**ds playing Agu$ta, on his iPhone (sigh)


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## NJ Lady Archer (Feb 24, 2005)

Looks like scoring is coming back.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Final end just started. It blanks out as it's being updated. 

Also be aware that out here at Ben Avery, we use 3G cards to get access. I'm doing this via Blackberry right now. 

-Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Doesn't look like there's a direct link -- you have to go to it through arizonacup.com.

Here are current standings for the top 20 recurve women...

1 17A ROMAN Aida MEX 317 278 0 0 11 2 595
2 17B NICHOLS Jennifer USA 324 257 0 0 9 0 581
3 16B LORIG Khatuna USA 310 270 0 0 10 3 580
4 14A ORTA Itzel MEX 318 261 0 0 4 2 579
5 14B BEAUDET Marie-Pier CAN 313 264 0 0 8 1 577
6 75A VALENCIA Alejandra MEX 322 251 0 0 3 0 573
7 19D RASOR Nicole USA 310 255 0 0 7 4 565
8 16A AVITIA Mariana MEX 309 255 0 0 7 2 564
9 26D LEEK Miranda USA 300 260 0 0 8 0 560
10 75B KOEHL Heather USA 300 258 0 0 7 2 558
11 16C CARTER Megan USA 297 258 0 0 4 1 555
12 14C BRAUN Kristin USA 300 250 0 0 5 1 550
13 14D JIMENEZ Joanne PUR 301 243 0 0 6 3 544
14 22A LARRICK Kiley USA 297 245 0 0 5 3 542
15 75D RUIZ Nadya PUR 294 246 0 0 6 4 540
16 13A BAYARDO Ana MEX 301 232 0 0 3 1 533
17 22C GOSHORN Sara USA 297 235 0 0 6 1 532
18 12C GARCIA Mariana MEX 276 253 0 0 7 1 529
19 22B CHAI Sarah USA 287 240 0 0 4 1 527
20 29A HUGHES Lauren USA 294 232 0 0 3 0 526


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Khatuna cranked - she wasn't on the leaderboard for the first 24. Then she rocketed up. Nice work!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

working now.... 
rooting for "70B"


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cadets are just getting the field prep done. Targets just got moved and the line is getting set soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> Cadets are just getting the field prep done. Targets just got moved and the line is getting set soon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wish we could have live video feed!!!!


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

SandSquid said:


> I wish we could have live video feed!!!!


That would be AWESOME! Would that be possible to do? Like if someone had a video camera and internet, can you put up a live feed? You could pass the camera around to various spectators throughout the day...


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

archerymom2 said:


> That would be AWESOME! Would that be possible to do?
> ...


streaming video is quite easy



> You could pass the camera around to various spectators throughout the day


Now that would be a lot more difficult... and cumbersome 

But setting up a fixed location streaming webcam is a snap.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Hard to do unless we were somehow able to get a high bandwidth capability out to the shooting facility. 

Scoring results by Ianseo are being sent via a 3G cell card network.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Have the cadets started yet? I'm assuming they'll be posted too...


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cadets have started their first live scoring end. 

I'm getting ready to leave the site soon. I've got real life stuff to go do, and I have to get the daily update off to USA Archery before my own league.

According to the Ianseo guys, cadet scoring will be real time. 

-Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Impromptu photo album up. Let me know if it utterly fails, crashes, and burns.

It should be open to the public. 

-Steve

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=162225&id=588963620&l=d518f03e1b


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Beastmaster said:


> Impromptu photo album up. Let me know if it utterly fails, crashes, and burns.
> 
> It should be open to the public.
> 
> ...


It works! Great photos! Thanks!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Friday April 9, A warm, full, opening day of competition.

AM
70M x 72 round using 74 targets AB CD

PM
70M x 72 round Cadets and VI
Open Team Rounds
Para Archery Individual Elimination Set Match Format Rounds

Sunset…

Nice and warm with variable mild breezes.
Archers, people from 14 countries, vendors and food. What else could be more fun?


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## Heliman21 (Mar 7, 2005)

SandSquid said:


> anybody have the direct URL to the live scoring page.
> 
> 
> Anybody want to post the current standings for Recurve Cadet Women


Here it is


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## Shinigami3 (Oct 7, 2009)

Really excellent weather past couple days here and a nice BBQ tonight. This is a great tourney.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Another album up. 

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=162692&id=588963620&l=7dea9983a7

As usual, let me know if there are any issues reading it.

-Steve


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## Ausarcher (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks for posting the photos Steve, it is interesting having a look at what equipment different archers are using.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Beastmaster said:


> Another album up.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=162692&id=588963620&l=7dea9983a7
> 
> ...


Thank you Steve.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Looks like OR Set Match day weather will be just like last two days.

Temps in the 70s and low to mid 80s F.
Winds from light to a 10 mph breeze.
Clear skys with a few clouds here and there.
Good food, good friends and a wide variety of lively and fun competition. 
A nice way to start the outdoor season.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Logan Wilde just nailed compound men shootoff Gold
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Van Natta just got compound Shootoff one arrow tiebreaker Gold. More as it's live.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Brady beat out Vic for the Gold.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mcfling (Mar 3, 2010)

Beastmaster,
Do you have or know where we can see the scores that comprised the set matches?

thanks.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Jennifer got the gold in a cool tiebreaker.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

mcfling said:


> Beastmaster,
> Do you have or know where we can see the scores that comprised the set matches?
> 
> thanks.


You mean the individual set ends? Nope. Just the final results.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Thanks to all for taking part in the 2010 AAE Arizona Cup

Coparco Nominated FITA World Ranking Tournament
Cadet, Junior and Senior USAT Qualifier
Para Archery Event
Star FITA
National, Mixed, Open Team Rounds
Para and Open Individual Elimination Rounds
Best of luck at the Texas Shootout!


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

Thanks Bob and the whole AZ CUP team for organizing yet another wonderful international event. You guys were/are amazing!

One big note for the future (and I mentioned this on the field)... the 3 day format is a wipe out. On Saturday, our top archers were on the field (a very hot field) for something like 10 hours straight. Between the 70 meter rounds, team rounds, and mixed team rounds... it was a nightmare of a day for them... and then they were expected to be back on Sunday and perform at their best (in the ORs where their performance is CRITICAL and where they make their $$$$). Not fair to these people, the staff, or the carpools/friends. Archers were essentially being punished for excelling at their sport and being a national representative.

Now, no doubt the problem was NOT with organization or execution. The AZ Cup folks did everything possible to keep things running smoothly and on time... but when you have this many arrows being shot, 3 days just isn't enough. When weighing the balance of travel/tournament time for the participants as a whole vs. the effectiveness of the schedule, I think we valiently and appropriately tried and lost this one. Plus, one of the additional goals was to have spectators on the field for those rounds, and because they were all so knackered as well, that didn't really work either. 

If the team rounds are going to stay, then IMO, the event needs to go back to a 4 day format. The LONGGGGGG 3 day thing just didn't fly well, despite best efforts and intentions.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

sundevilarchery said:


> Thanks Bob and the whole AZ CUP team for organizing yet another wonderful international event. You guys were/are amazing!
> 
> One big note for the future (and I mentioned this on the field)... the 3 day format is a wipe out. On Saturday, our top archers were on the field (a very hot field) for something like 10 hours straight. Between the 70 meter rounds, team rounds, and mixed team rounds... it was a nightmare of a day for them... and then they were expected to be back on Sunday and perform at their best (in the ORs where their performance is CRITICAL and where they make their $$$$). Not fair to these people, the staff, or the carpools/friends. Archers were essentially being punished for excelling at their sport and being a national representative.
> 
> ...


The tournament would love to hear feedback from the community like this. Many factors resulted in almost 300 AZ Cup competitors. The key will be identify and focus on the primary goal of FITA, COPARCO, USA Archery and the Arizona State Archery Association as it relates to future AZ Cups and so apply.

The archers were stressed with 10 hours on the field day. 14+ hours on the field day after day by the crew is to much to ask of volunteers.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

More pics...

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=163082&l=88e551ef6f&id=588963620


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

And the last two are up.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=163179&l=31cc236cda&id=588963620

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=163195&id=588963620&l=636776f63b

If you're wanting to tag any photos of friends or loved ones, please add me as a friend first (Steve Yee). Then you can tag to your heart's delight and I don't have to approve 100 plus photo requests at one time.

It's obvious which Steve Yee in Facebook....I'm the only one that has anything archery related and in Phoenix, AZ.

Thanks!
-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Interspersed



sundevilarchery said:


> Thanks Bob and the whole AZ CUP team for organizing yet another wonderful international event. You guys were/are amazing!


Agreed. Bob, Janice, and crew did one heck of a job out there!




> One big note for the future (and I mentioned this on the field)... the 3 day format is a wipe out. On Saturday, our top archers were on the field (a very hot field) for something like 10 hours straight. Between the 70 meter rounds, team rounds, and mixed team rounds... it was a nightmare of a day for them... and then they were expected to be back on Sunday and perform at their best (in the ORs where their performance is CRITICAL and where they make their $$$$). Not fair to these people, the staff, or the carpools/friends. Archers were essentially being punished for excelling at their sport and being a national representative.


Just my viewpoint as a photographer/writer instead of an archer. I agree that Saturday was somewhat cramming 10 pounds of events into a 5 pound bag. However, it is what it is, and I think it was a good learning experience.

Some of the feedback that I've been seeing from various archers off of another medium (specifically, Facebook), has been rather interesting to read. Some (which is typical of the archer posting it and isn't fit for print) is rather critical. Others has been neutral. The majority of criticism seems to come from the compounders. None of this, of course, is a scientific poll of which anyone can garner any sort of statistical mindset data to base things upon.

None of the critique was aimed at the AZ Cup organizers, rather, the criticism is aimed at FITA in general. 




> Now, no doubt the problem was NOT with organization or execution. The AZ Cup folks did everything possible to keep things running smoothly and on time...


Definitely. 




> but when you have this many arrows being shot, 3 days just isn't enough. When weighing the balance of travel/tournament time for the participants as a whole vs. the effectiveness of the schedule, I think we valiently and appropriately tried and lost this one. Plus, one of the additional goals was to have spectators on the field for those rounds, and because they were all so knackered as well, that didn't really work either.


There's a few things that went against us regarding the spectators in the viewing gallery. One is that we had the Masters going on at the same time. My conversations via email with various sports press guys basically told me that we would lose out to the Masters in interest (which was true - all media coverage occurred on Thursday). The other is that the set system is not understood as well.

The second part is going to take time. With the set system being so new, most people who are experienced in watching archery either won't watch it, they don't understand it, or they got bored with it. The latter is the most dangerous - that's the mind set that is exactly opposite of what FITA wanted.




> If the team rounds are going to stay, then IMO, the event needs to go back to a 4 day format. The LONGGGGGG 3 day thing just didn't fly well, despite best efforts and intentions.


+1 on that. I wasn't shooting (well, wasn't shooting arrows...I was shooting cameras...) and I was fried.

-Steve


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## Dave Cousins (Jun 28, 2002)

I thought the cup was awesome this year! The fact you don't have to shoot YOUR arrows into YOUR TARGET to score them and have them counted in a WORLD RANKING TOURNAMENt is an awesome new concept. I would like to see more of this forward thinking from FITA at even HIGHER LEVEL events. Perhaps just shoot any damn place/way/time you like in the FINALS from now on!

Awesome

Dave


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## pbdollar (May 1, 2005)

Dave Cousins said:


> I thought the cup was awesome this year! The fact you don't have to shoot YOUR arrows into YOUR TARGET to score them and have them counted in a WORLD RANKING TOURNAMENt is an awesome new concept. I would like to see more of this forward thinking from FITA at even HIGHER LEVEL events. Perhaps just shoot any damn place/way/time you like in the FINALS from now on!
> 
> Awesome
> 
> Dave


WOW !! What the heck went on out there to merit this statement?


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## tecshooter05 (Mar 7, 2005)

Dave Cousins said:


> I thought the cup was awesome this year! The fact you don't have to shoot YOUR arrows into YOUR TARGET to score them and have them counted in a WORLD RANKING TOURNAMENt is an awesome new concept. I would like to see more of this forward thinking from FITA at even HIGHER LEVEL events. Perhaps just shoot any damn place/way/time you like in the FINALS from now on!
> 
> Awesome
> 
> Dave


can someone fill people in? that weren't there


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

The new FITA OR "set system" is not necessarily a hit (so to speak). Not the organizers fault, of course.

In one instance, I've heard (didn't see it myself), an archer actually put 6 arrows on the wrong bale... and ended up winning the match. He went on to finish in the top 8.

So... there are some problems (to say the least). 

Overall, from what I have heard this weekend and in the aftermath, neither the archers or the spectators seem to be fans of the new set system.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

sundevilarchery said:


> The new FITA OR "set system" is not necessarily a hit (so to speak). Not the organizers fault, of course.
> 
> In one instance, I've heard (didn't see it myself), an archer actually put 6 arrows on the wrong bale... and ended up winning the match. He went on to finish in the top 8.
> 
> ...


Correct. One archer (I won't name names) dumped all 6 arrows into a totally different bale. This one archer did end up in the top 8.

There has been discussion regarding the set system. In the case of the archer and the wrong target, you can lose that particular "set", and still win it overall to advance in the brackets.

In extreme cases (taking a look at long shoots), if one starts off rather badly for the first two shots, you could technically take misses for the remaining 4, and use the brief time for some physical recovery. You go down by 2 set points, but then if you use the recovery time to gather yourself, you could win straight sets and beat your opponent in the overall match.

I've shot state tournaments with the set system. It's a rather interesting methodology. 

-Steve


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

pbdollar said:


> WOW !! What the heck went on out there to merit this statement?


Chances are if that is what he said, that is what happened. And yes the rules are such that such a thing could happen. You see it all the time in Tennis-someone gets destroyed in the first set 6-0 or 6-1 and comes back and wins two tie break sets . They have lost 18-14 in games yet win the match. I believe it happened in the last WTA event when the winner got almost skunked in the first set

losing 60-59 or 60-0 means the other archer is up 2 points.


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## Shinigami3 (Oct 7, 2009)

No question about it, sets is a whole new game. Some shooters will adapt and thrive and some will fall by the wayside. ATTITUDE will be the deciding factor.

Thanks to the AZ Cup volunteers for a fine weekend!


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Shinigami3 said:


> No question about it, sets is a whole new game. Some shooters will adapt and thrive and some will fall by the wayside. ATTITUDE will be the deciding factor.
> 
> Thanks to the AZ Cup volunteers for a fine weekend!


Winning the most sets will be the deciding factor. If you shoot more good arrows than the other guy chances are you are gonna win-just like under the old system. No one goes into a match looking to shoot the wrong target and still win


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

*please be safe returning home*

Our folks were turned around due to closed freeways, sand-storms and high winds... I hear it's pretty ugly in AZ right now.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

SandSquid said:


> Our folks were turned around due to closed freeways, sand-storms and high winds... I hear it's pretty ugly in AZ right now.


It is ugly. Weather out here just dropped 15 degrees in a short time.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

It was a beautiful day in AZ because, Terry and Diane LaBeau, Mark Miscione, MJ Rogers, Mike Cullumber, and Wayne took down the field and put all the equipment away.
The USA Archery results team members, Steve P, Robert H, and Janice P put away all the electronics for shipping to the next USAT event, the Texas Shootout.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Dave Cousins said:


> I thought the cup was awesome this year! The fact you don't have to shoot YOUR arrows into YOUR TARGET to score them and have them counted in a WORLD RANKING TOURNAMENt is an awesome new concept. I would like to see more of this forward thinking from FITA at even HIGHER LEVEL events. Perhaps just shoot any damn place/way/time you like in the FINALS from now on!
> 
> Awesome
> 
> Dave




Just curious Dave, If the line judge told you Butt #69 and you stepped up and shot said butt and it was the wrong one that would be your fault???? i am sure if that was you Dave you would have just walked away and been ok with it??? 


The Line judge said butt #69 so Jimmy shot that butt. When they figured it out after the end the judge acknowledged it. Doogie being a sportsman, realizing it did the right thing IMO. IF Jimmy would have had to protest he would have still got the arrows. This WASNT george Ryals saturday night in vegas,the guy that shot 3 arrows into the wrong target at indoor nats or a field shoot or anything he shot the bail he was TOLD to shoot. Seems like the common sense thing to do i mean rules are rules but there are circumstances that require common sense to be used.At some point sportsmanship and common sense must come into play i would HOPE? or not? we could certainly get into the sportsmanship issue and how it (or the LACK of it) effects our sport.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

GREAT job to everyone that put on the shoot it was awesome!!!! WELL DONE!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

bigGP said:


> Just curious Dave, If the line judge told you Butt #69 and you stepped up and shot said butt and it was the wrong one that would be your fault???? i am sure if that was you Dave you would have just walked away and been ok with it???
> 
> 
> The Line judge said butt #69 so Jimmy shot that butt. When they figured it out after the end the judge acknowledged it. Doogie being a sportsman, realizing it did the right thing IMO. IF Jimmy would have had to protest he would have still got the arrows. This WASNT george Ryals saturday night in vegas,the guy that shot 3 arrows into the wrong target at indoor nats or a field shoot or anything he shot the bail he was TOLD to shoot. Seems like the common sense thing to do i mean rules are rules but there are circumstances that require common sense to be used.At some point sportsmanship and common sense must come into play i would HOPE? or not? we could certainly get into the sportsmanship issue and how it (or the LACK of it) effects our sport.



Good post. Sorry, Dave, but I thought your post was out of line. 

John.


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

Um... I can't speak for Mr. Cousins of course, but his post didn't actually mention anyone or anything in particular.... and I don't want you guys to imply that from my quick explanation of one occurance at the event that he was talking about a particular incident. The occurance stimulated thought and debate about the possabilities. And better to see those things now than have it happen and be suprised later on. So let's not jump to conclusions!

The sentiment about the IDEA that something like this could happen with the set system and that it's BS was pretty consistant throughout the field of archers. That this SORT of thing (sitting out for 6 arrows or missing 6 arrows in an OR) COULD happen is a real potential problem.

Dave is a rather high profile athlete and has a rep as a bit of a outspoken individual, but please understand, what he said was not specific and was pretty much what everyone on the field was thinking about the set system overall. The fact that it COULD apply to a specific incident is just... well, IDK... and neither does anyone else.

Let's not make assumptions. I think apologies are in order. :embara:


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## Reo (May 23, 2002)

I will say after reading this and hearing all the stories. I thought I would chime in and let you know what happened to me. I was told at the AZ Cup before to shoot the wrong target and did. I got 6 zero's even though I shot what the judge told me to. I also got told that if I would have protested it I would have got to score them because of there being no real target assignments posted. That was buy someone on the protest committee. I don't see were the set system would make a difference it happened during the old system. I think the thing here is it can happen with any system we need to do like GP said and do the right thing. The best archer should win not the guy who shot against someone who got told the wrong thing. 

Reo


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

I also had the opportunity to be a spectator for some time this weekend, and I can say that I do NOT like the new match system. everyone thought it was bad enough to let 12 arrows decide the better archer - now there's a mess and we're left to deal with it. FITA initiated this new system, and wisely the NAA followed - our archers do need to learn the new game, however, I still say it is a move in a completely wrong direction.

First off, this new format has done absolutely nothing for spectators. In fact it has left everyone in a cloud. There's nothing like watching a match not having any idea the quality of the athletes' abilities. It's like listening to a tennis match on the radio with a rookie announcer that doesn't know a baseline from the back court. If you want to know anything, you absolutely need a spotting scope and an excellent angle, and even then we all know the shadows can disguise what you see. They have actually made spectating more expensive :mg: Not simpler to understand, but now impossible to follow. 

As for the archers, the slightly lower ranked athlete now has the edge. The match play system has now taken those precious few points gained by the slightly better archer and laid them to waste. Not only that, but the athlete now has no idea who they are going against - see above for the lack of meaningful feedback. Absolutely pitiful.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Well Scott I wasn't there and I note the same two guys were in the finals as the NTC/US Open that used the 12 arrow system with the same results--brady over vic. I do note one of my club's kids-ranked 41 took out a former USAT member and then the #9 seed before losing 4-2 (IIRC) to J Wukie who is a pretty top flight archer. It appears Daniel would have beat T Hines under either system --I don't know about him beating Joe.

No matter what we do we aren't going to make archery a TV draw like beach volleyball or downhill skiing. So constantly changing things to achieve an unobtainable goal seems silly

at least under the double FITA system you rarely heard anyone say that the best archer didn't win--unlike say the match play where (about 10 years ago) the last seed took out Jay Barrs and his 1330+ Ranking score or where Rick Stonebraker shot the second high score on the Canton field only to lose to Vic while every other winner would have lost to Rick


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Jim C said:


> Well Scott I wasn't there and I note the same two guys were in the finals as the NTC/US Open that used the 12 arrow system with the same results--brady over vic. I do note one of my club's kids-ranked 41 took out a former USAT member and then the #9 seed before losing 4-2 (IIRC) to J Wukie who is a pretty top flight archer. It appears Daniel would have beat T Hines under either system --I don't know about him beating Joe.
> 
> No matter what we do we aren't going to make archery a TV draw like beach volleyball or downhill skiing. So constantly changing things to achieve an unobtainable goal seems silly
> 
> at least under the double FITA system you rarely heard anyone say that the best archer didn't win--unlike say the match play where (about 10 years ago) the last seed took out Jay Barrs and his 1330+ Ranking score or where Rick Stonebraker shot the second high score on the Canton field only to lose to Vic while every other winner would have lost to Rick


No where in any sport do I know of a system where only the athlete knows how the matches were won or lost. Scoring is now a big secret to those watching, which is rediculous. There were a number of upsets last weekend. Unfortunately we don't know how they were played out.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Shinigami3 said:


> No question about it, sets is a whole new game. Some shooters will adapt and thrive and some will fall by the wayside. ATTITUDE will be the deciding factor.
> 
> Thanks to the AZ Cup volunteers for a fine weekend!


Agreed 100%. Those with winning attitudes will still win, while others will find new things (like this) to complain about. 

I played tennis through high school, so this set system - while troublesome and cofusing to some perhaps - makes perfect sense to me. We have said for some time now that one bad arrow shouldn't conclude an entire match. 

As Jim points out though, there is no perfect solution. Archery isn't going to become more viewer friendly by simply changing scoring methods. It is going to take much greater change than that. For starters, viewers MUST know what's going on in real time, and some form of real-time strategy or cause/affect MUST be involved. Otherwise, it's like watching grass grow...

John.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Interspersed



Huntmaster said:


> I also had the opportunity to be a spectator for some time this weekend, and I can say that I do NOT like the new match system. everyone thought it was bad enough to let 12 arrows decide the better archer - now there's a mess and we're left to deal with it. FITA initiated this new system, and wisely the NAA followed - our archers do need to learn the new game, however, I still say it is a move in a completely wrong direction.


Again, I'm mixed. A consistent archer will generally always win the set system as well. A lucky archer will go only so far until they reach a point where a more consistent archer will win out.

My worry is the sandbagging. You could theoretically sandbag the qualification, and then start whomping on the lower ranked archers to at least make it to the final 16 or 8.

While I don't agree necessarily with everything that FITA is doing (my view of the hit/miss compound 50m target is just as dim), it is what it is. Archers that want to play need to conform with the changes.




> First off, this new format has done absolutely nothing for spectators. In fact it has left everyone in a cloud. There's nothing like watching a match not having any idea the quality of the athletes' abilities. It's like listening to a tennis match on the radio with a rookie announcer that doesn't know a baseline from the back court. If you want to know anything, you absolutely need a spotting scope and an excellent angle, and even then we all know the shadows can disguise what you see. They have actually made spectating more expensive :mg: Not simpler to understand, but now impossible to follow.


I will agree. You need a good tripod, a good spotting scope, and an excellent position. Archer Chris Webster (US Army WCAP) resorted to standing on the bleachers to get a good view on Sunday.

With regards to their opponents abilities. I somewhat agree. It's nice to know the archer's abilities. However, if they got as far as the final 8, then their ability has to be somewhat decent in order for them to have gotten there, luck or no luck.



> As for the archers, the slightly lower ranked athlete now has the edge. The match play system has now taken those precious few points gained by the slightly better archer and laid them to waste. Not only that, but the athlete now has no idea who they are going against - see above for the lack of meaningful feedback. Absolutely pitiful.


The more consistent archer should (note the word "should") generally win. Knowing or not knowing who they are going against should be irrelevant. Anyone can beat anybody. 

Just my .02

-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Huntmaster said:


> No where in any sport do I know of a system where only the athlete knows how the matches were won or lost. Scoring is now a big secret to those watching, which is rediculous. There were a number of upsets last weekend. Unfortunately we don't know how they were played out.


It would be nice from a statistical tracking point of view to see how the matches played out.

If it wasn't for the fact that I was physically there Sunday, it's impossible to take the scores posted and know what was going on. Frankly, the only two cool things of the day were Rodger Willett Jr. totally devastating his competitor with X's and 10's, one right after the other, and Jennifer Nichols starting to let down with only 8 seconds left, and then resetting herself halfway down to nail the yellow.

Now, the fact that Rodger Willett Jr. was destroying his competitor is totally lost on the current reporting system. No offense to Logan Wilde, but the bronze medal match was far more fun to watch.

-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Agreed 100%. Those with winning attitudes will still win, while others will find new things (like this) to complain about.
> 
> I played tennis through high school, so this set system - while troublesome and cofusing to some perhaps - makes perfect sense to me. We have said for some time now that one bad arrow shouldn't conclude an entire match.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

And I do want to make a general disclaimer. I sincerely hope that people discern that the people who ran this year's Cup know that this criticism isn't aimed at them. It's aimed at FITA.

-Steve


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Beastmaster said:


> And I do want to make a general disclaimer. I sincerely hope that people discern that the people who ran this year's Cup know that this criticism isn't aimed at them. It's aimed at FITA.
> 
> -Steve


Agreed. The comments I made say absolutely nothing about the event or those running it. It was well organized and ran fairly smoothly. The crew did a great job and should be commended.


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## azarcher300 (May 1, 2006)

*Set System*

I have been around FITA Tournaments for 50 years and have watched all of the changes take place. From the Grand FITA to the 18 arrow shoot down to the 12 arrow shoot down and now the set system. Everything designed to make it spectator friendly. However, the only time I see any type of spectator numbers is at large events like World Championships or Olympics. I do not see the set system as anything that will bring more spectators to any archery events or even more to the large events. It has increased the time it takes to complete the matches and given the lesser archer a larger chance to win. In most other sports like Golf etc. the fan base is mostly made up of Golfers. Without numbers in the sport we will not increase our fan base no matter how you change the round. Just my observations over the last 50 years of watching FITA archery.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

very well put sir!...


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

May I suggest that we take the set system criticism off this thread and onto another one? I'm even willing to start another thread for it. 

-Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Correct me if i am wrong but isnt all of this to TRY to get compound archery its own event to make a run at the Olympics?????


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Greg,

The 50m Hit/Miss is definitely the attempt to get Compound into the Olympics.

However, the set system is (I believe) an attempt to get more viewership and make it more TV friendly.

-Steve


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Beastmaster said:


> Greg,
> 
> The 50m Hit/Miss is definitely the attempt to get Compound into the Olympics.
> 
> ...


So the set system is not part OF the 50m H/M but rather another change on top of it? and the reason is what???? trying to make the bottom 32 in the bracket feel like they have a fighting chance or what?


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## Paula (Sep 8, 2009)

azarcher300 said:


> I have been around FITA Tournaments for 50 years and have watched all of the changes take place. From the Grand FITA to the 18 arrow shoot down to the 12 arrow shoot down and now the set system. Everything designed to make it spectator friendly. However, the only time I see any type of spectator numbers is at large events like World Championships or Olympics. I do not see the set system as anything that will bring more spectators to any archery events or even more to the large events. It has increased the time it takes to complete the matches and given the lesser archer a larger chance to win. In most other sports like Golf etc. the fan base is mostly made up of Golfers. Without numbers in the sport we will not increase our fan base no matter how you change the round. Just my observations over the last 50 years of watching FITA archery.


This says it all,,,,Paula


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

azarcher300 said:


> I have been around FITA Tournaments for 50 years and have watched all of the changes take place. From the Grand FITA to the 18 arrow shoot down to the 12 arrow shoot down and now the set system. Everything designed to make it spectator friendly. However, the only time I see any type of spectator numbers is at large events like World Championships or Olympics. I do not see the set system as anything that will bring more spectators to any archery events or even more to the large events. It has increased the time it takes to complete the matches and given the lesser archer a larger chance to win. In most other sports like Golf etc. the fan base is mostly made up of Golfers. Without numbers in the sport we will not increase our fan base no matter how you change the round. Just my observations over the last 50 years of watching FITA archery.


Richard,

I totally agree.

One of the issues while observing the viewing gallery was that they didn't understand the set system. Which led to complaints from there.

I do like what we're trying to do here in Arizona, by providing as many opportunities as possible to expose the new system to the masses. Heck, I know that Mel's been doing it with his students, I'm introducing it en masse to the JOAD kids at the shop I work at, and others are doing the same thing.

I do feel that until people understand the set system better (by shooting it, perhaps?), viewership in the gallery will stay a bit down.

-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

bigGP said:


> So the set system is not part OF the 50m H/M but rather another change on top of it? and the reason is what???? trying to make the bottom 32 in the bracket feel like they have a fighting chance or what?


The theoretical reason for the set system is to make it more fun to watch. Whether that was accomplished or not still remains to be seen. I can say that from my own observations as a photographer/writer (rather than as a shooter) was that people had to have the set system explained to them.

In the semis on Sunday, my family sat next to a Olympic class rifle shooter. She had absolutely no clue what was going on and was totally lost on the set system.

Of course, her view of QR/OR made more sense to her, since rifle shooting does similar things to archery. They don't have the set system either in lead flinging.

If it makes the lower 32 in the bracket have a fighting chance, I see it as a good/bad thing. An archer in the lower 32 could get lucky and win. An archer in the top 8 has to work harder.

-Steve


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## NM-HOYT-MANIAC (Jan 3, 2004)

i'm sorry but i'm not for anything that brings luck into the picture. These matches should be determined by skill not luck. I kinda have a sour taste in my mouth about the whole thing because I was one that kinda got bit by the new set system. I had a higher total arrow score than my opponent but I lost in a 1 arrow shoot-off. I'm not complaining because i lost, because I knew the rules going in, but you can see where the whole thing would leave a sour taste in your mouth.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Story from the FITA website regarding 2010 AAE AZ Cup
http://www.archery.org/content.asp?id=1036&me_id=836&cnt_id=4718
Result including world records.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

2010 AAE AZ Cup stories from the USAA website
April 9 http://usarchery.org/news/2010/04/08/arizona-cup-started-thursday/35210
April 10 http://usarchery.org/news/2010/04/09/ellison-kaminsky-in-close-competition-at-arizona-cup/35229
April 11 http://usarchery.org/news/2010/04/11/team-usa-dominates-second-day-at-arizona-cup/35243 
April 12 http://usarchery.org/news/2010/04/12/team-usa-earns-19-medals-at-arizona-cup/35284 
Thank you Steve Yee for writing the articles.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Serious Fun said:


> 2010 AAE AZ Cup stories from the USAA website
> April 9 http://usarchery.org/news/2010/04/08/arizona-cup-started-thursday/35210
> April 10 http://usarchery.org/news/2010/04/09/ellison-kaminsky-in-close-competition-at-arizona-cup/35229
> April 11 http://usarchery.org/news/2010/04/11/team-usa-dominates-second-day-at-arizona-cup/35243
> ...


Thank you and USA Archery for letting me haul out my writing tools again. It was fun being a journalist again for a short while instead of being a shooter. 

And, as a fractional owner of a publication (a beer magazine, no less), it's nice to get my hands dirty again. It wasn't quite "Undercover Boss", but it does make me appreciate the guys and gals that are doing all the real work.

-Steve


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> Good post. Sorry, Dave, but I thought your post was out of line.
> 
> John.




Dont worry about the retort. just check your ankles for bite marks.:wink:


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## KACArcher (Sep 15, 2004)

*Feedback*



Serious Fun said:


> The tournament would love to hear feedback from the community like this. Many factors resulted in almost 300 AZ Cup competitors. The key will be identify and focus on the primary goal of FITA, COPARCO, USA Archery and the Arizona State Archery Association as it relates to future AZ Cups and so apply.
> 
> The archers were stressed with 10 hours on the field day. 14+ hours on the field day after day by the crew is to much to ask of volunteers.


First, let me say that I thought the tournament was very well run and I really enjoyed it. However, i think you missed the mark in one area - the Para Archers recognition. After asking why there were no awards for the Para Archers, I was told that the organizers were told not to worry about it and to "just do your thing" because the number of Para Archers who would attend were unknown at the time. Consequently, no awards were ordered. I find no fault with organizers for that, you were just following instructions.

However, what I don't understand is why there was not at least an announcement on the public address system of the Para results to the crowd and give them some recognition for their efforts. It wouldn't have taken five minutes of time and there was no cost of an award involved. 

The impression I got was that no one cared about making the effort. That put an ugly face on what was an otherwise great event.

Respectfully,
Jim White


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

bigGP said:


> Dont worry about the retort. just check your ankles for bite marks.:wink:


As if I would care...

I prefer to look up. Thanks.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> at least an announcement on the public address system of the Para results to the crowd and give them some recognition for their efforts.


Not sure that's what those athletes are looking for. Not wanting to speak for them, but if they did something noteworthy, then it would be appropriate to recognize that. Otherwise, everyone on the field was simply an archer.

John.


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## KACArcher (Sep 15, 2004)

I think the fact that they they were a registered division of competitors should count for something. Every other division was recognized. Why not them too? 

Or do you just think they don't deserve recognition for their efforts?


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> As if I would care...
> 
> I prefer to look up. Thanks.




Interestingly no retort to be seen but protect them ankles!!!


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

KACArcher said:


> I think the fact that they they were a registered division of competitors should count for something. Every other division was recognized. Why not them too?
> 
> Or do you just think they don't deserve recognition for their efforts?


I think he was saying they just want to be treated the same as everyone else. easy killa.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

bigGP said:


> I think he was saying they just want to be treated the same as everyone else. easy killa.


Indeed. 

John.


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## utahhotshot (Nov 18, 2004)

The lack of awards was due to lack of communication - mostly mine. 

Bob did agree to announce the results on Sunday during one of the breaks. However, the medical staff of the GBR team said the team needed to leave to get ready for flights. It didn't seem right to just announce the USA team - so we didn't do it at all. 

It was a great event, and we appreciate everyone who helped make it a success. If I list names, I'll be sure to leave someone out - so I won't - but all of the para archers had a great time, and got to do some great shooting.

The USA team will be heading to Great Britain in July - it also will be a great event! Watch out GBR!


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## flamegoddess (Mar 16, 2009)

bigGP said:


> I think he was saying they just want to be treated the same as everyone else. easy killa.


Our OR's were all shot late on Friday afternoon/evening. A Saturday announcement would have been nice. If we were treated the same, we would have had announcements and medals and all, since we were shooting OR's in the set system, just like everybody else. Try doing it from a wheelchair, Limbwalker, trust me, it's harder than standing up.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Thank you all for taking part in the 2010 AAE AZ Cup.*

Thank you all for taking part in the 2010 AAE AZ Cup. 
It’s a team effort. Thank you to so many:

The team of volunteers and workers that worked tirelessly from dawn to after dark to keep the event running smoothly
The Title Sponsor AAE and tournament sponsors Carter, Easton, BCY, Sure loc and Raffle Sponsor Doinker who provided the funding for awards and prizes.
USAA Sponsors, Easton Foundation, Easton, Hoyt, United Airlines, Nike, Tax Masters, B-Stinger who support the USAT program which helps to bring so many to the AAE AZ Cup.
USA Archery for taking care of the details including WRT nomination, USADA testing, USAT sanctioning, and Easton Sports Electronic Results, Timing and staff.
COPARCO for nominating the AAE AZ Cup to FITA for World Ranking and encouraging 8 COPARCO association to take part.
The FITA Officials, needed more than ever to manage the application of the new rules.
Ben Avery Shooting Facility for providing a world class venue.
The weather man for providing such great conditions.
The 300+ archers from 14 countries who decide to spend their time and money competing at the AAE AZ Cup
The 21 years of Arizona target archery community commitment to provide a quality FITA event for the archers.
We are planning for 2011. As with all tournaments, be sure to sign up to reserve a place on the shooting line before making non refundable travel arrangements.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

AAE AZ Cup Records updated.
www.arizonacup.com


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