# Getting others to see the light



## FDL (Sep 7, 2008)

OK, Now that we know why most of us shoot fingers, how can we get others to do the same. I know fingers are not for everyone, but maybe there are a few out there that would like it, like we do. I have been talking to everyone that ask me why I shoot fingers and getting them to try fingers. I have a Ultra tec with 3000 limbs and adjustable draw that I have been carrying along with me. When I get ask why, I say try and see for yourself. I have two new guys trying fingers in just three week of me carrying around this bow. I think most people that have tried fingers, tried it with non-finger equipment. I know everyone can't carry around a (demo) bow for everyone to shoot, but maybe we can just talk it up alittle more. Anything is better than nothing, if we don't try, limited/finger classes are going to be gone forever.
Thanks for everything
Dave


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## FDL (Sep 7, 2008)

Nobody has anything to add


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

Just like with trad archery, the majority of fingers guys are 40 or older I bet. Darn few of the younger crowd has even held a worthwile fingers bow. And speed is all that matters to them. At that age did you want a corvette or a family car? It's going to be hard to convince a younger guy to try it. 
They want instant gratification, not something they have to work at. It takes a little aging to appreciate the little things that make what a finger shooter needs to learn appreciated. All we can do is expose them to it now and again and hope it strikes an interest. Untill I shot that Rhinhart last summer I did'nt think shooting that well was really possible with fingers, but I was proven wrong. But it does have a longer learning time, so it requires a person with some patience. IMO


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## psequick (Oct 30, 2005)

*im gonna try it*

im converting my current set up to a finger set up in a few days!

I can't wait for the challange.


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## rcgerchow (Dec 20, 2006)

I only wish I could shoot fingers as I did years ago. I blew out a bunch of tendons in my right arm and had to go to a release. When things get complicated with all this machinery I often wish I could pick up a stick bow or recurve and just fling a few arrows for some fun.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I am a barebow recurve shooter that will begin finger shooting as soon as I get my bow (which I am buying off this forum). We have the same issue with barebow. We become ambassadors for the discipline -- doing all we can to preserve, and hopefully grow, our chosen shooting style. Well now I am coming over to yet another "dark side". Guess I am destined to live at the fringe of archery society. I am looking forward to applying my string walking skills to a compound finger bow. Next year when I shoot my state's NFAA indoor it will be barebow with a compound rather than my traditional recurve with a stabilizer on it. I am still working on making sure that all of our NAA state ranking tournaments have a barebow division.


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

red44 said:


> Just like with trad archery, the majority of fingers guys are 40 or older I bet. Darn few of the younger crowd has even held a worthwile fingers bow. And speed is all that matters to them. At that age did you want a corvette or a family car? It's going to be hard to convince a younger guy to try it.
> They want instant gratification, not something they have to work at. It takes a little aging to appreciate the little things that make what a finger shooter needs to learn appreciated. All we can do is expose them to it now and again and hope it strikes an interest. Untill I shot that Rhinhart last summer I did'nt think shooting that well was really possible with fingers, but I was proven wrong. But it does have a longer learning time, so it requires a person with some patience. IMO


there's a few of us young uns around. i try to encourage people to try fingershooting as well.


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

Well I stand corrected, and I thank you. Keep it going and growing my friend.


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## FDL (Sep 7, 2008)

redd44, I do agree with you, but if we don't try it may be gone. I hoping they see it more as fine wine than cheep beer.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

I did manage to con/recruit 2 more shooters to the Limited ranks... but at the same time, we lost several more.

My neighbor and good friend, who has shot Limited Pro since 2000 and won back to back ASA championships... has jumped class to Senior Pro 

Another friend who had planned to shoot his first ASA Limited Pro tourney in Florida this weekend, called me earlier and said he may have to drop back to the amateur Limited class due to their drop in shooters as well.

And that he was told(not name dropping) that if the numbers don't go up quick, the Limited Pro class will be dropped altogether. 

I fear our days in 3D are numbered... I just hope there will still be somewhere for us in Field archery.


It ain't lookin good brothers.


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## hunting1 (Jun 11, 2002)

Hey, I am only 36! A release is easier and takes less practice is why I think many go that route. I wish more would though so more bow choices and rests.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

hunting1 said:


> Hey, I am only 36! A release is easier and takes less practice is why I think many go that route. I wish more would though so more bow choices and rests.


easier, less practice, skill, knowledge or appreciation of arrow flight dynamics, tuning etc. 


kinda fell sorry for release shooters


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

CutTheLoop said:


> easier, less practice, skill, knowledge or appreciation of arrow flight dynamics, tuning etc.
> 
> 
> kinda fell sorry for release shooters


...I find it both odd, and sad, that alot of folks that come into the bow shop have no idea about how to shoot a bow with Fingers, and some even think that it cant be done, at least to any real degree of accuracy...And most are totally clueless as to the set-up, and tuning of a bow, let alone a bow for Fingers...I'm not hacking on release shooters, but it seems that alot of basic Archery knowledge has been lost (never learned??) with the current crop of Archers/Bowhunters....And I've not ran into anyone that is willing to learn, actually most either dont understand why I want to shoot Fingers, or think that Finger shooting a compound bow is just silly, or that I'm some kind of goofball, or that I'm just a joke...Kinda like that goofy fat guy that is always at the gym, but never works out hard, and never gets any stronger, or muscular, and wont use a set routine that other weight lifter's know will work for Him....Just a joke to the majority of the crowd, really....What's funny is that a fella can walk in the shop with a recurve, and if he can keep 6 arrows in a pie plate at 20 yards, then people say, "That guy can shoot pretty good!"....L.O.L.....Jim


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## FDL (Sep 7, 2008)

I have two guys I'm trying to get to go shoot some ASAs. We mostly shoot IBO.
Last year in the two amateur classes we averaged 25 shooter. Hunter class averaged
280 shooters, that is sad. In the late 80s early 90s, at a national event fingers class had over 100 shooters


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

there were 6 other women in my 3d division FBU (female bowhunter unaided = compound unsighted fingers) at the australian 3d nationals last year. most have been there for years and are great shooters.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

In order to grow the finger shooting classes we have several obstacles to overcome. First we are losing the marketing battle. For the folks that manufacture bows and related archery products it's all about profit. Every ad you see in the magazines, at shoots, trade shows etc is all geared to shooting shorter bows with releases. Why? Increase the bottom line. This marketing is a tremendous influence on buying decisions. When folks are bombarded with a message that something is right or the best way to do something they believe it and buy accordingly. When was the last time you saw an ad featuring some well known shooter with a 48in wheel bow shooting fingers? Probably about 1985!

When a new shooter goes into a shop to buy an outfit the shop owner grabs a bow, arrows, and a release and then sets it up for him (hopefully), thus maximizing the profit the shop will make. There is never a discussion about weather the new shooter wants to shoot fingers or release...that never comes up as an option.

Ease of shooting with a release has been mentioned already and it is a huge factor. Let's face it, it's a lot easier. I've shot fingers since 1959 but have tried a release from time to time due to medical conditions. Not only is it a lot easier than fingers it allows you to draw more weight and it will tighten up your groups. I just never felt "connected" to the bow so I always go back to fingers. That being said for someone who has never shot fingers why should they switch? From their prospective they are going to get worse, the scores will suffer and they will have to work harder. In todays society who is going to do that?

People love gadgets and archers are no different. Just look at this web site..70% of all the threads on here are about equipment and the related arguments as to what's better. Fingers aren't glamourous or sexy.

The only way we are going to increase the numbers of finger shooters in any meaningful numbers is to make shooting this way more attractive, not to the shooters but to the manufacturers and shop owners so they will promote this style. If they can't see any way to increase sales by selling and promoting finger bows then it's not going to happen. For every one or two we can convert there are twice that many who go from fingers to a release.

The TRAD guys created their own market through the promotion of "doing it the hard way", their own magazine (TBM), and the start of "custom bowyers" anybody with a band saw and some glue could become a bow manufacturer. Perhaps the compound finger community should start their own publication, and really promote bowyers like Dave Barnesdale who make "custom bows" for finger shooting. If a few more small mfg.'s got into this and created a niche market then interest may pick up. Lets hope so cause it's much more fun IMHO, but of course you all know that already.


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## shadowhunter (Oct 12, 2003)

*I hear ya*

Harperman...
Got a new string made and put on at our local pro shop and I watched him put the nock set on dead level with no room for the nock like I was going to use a loop or something. I went home and moved it. They make great strings at the shop but may not be familiar with finger set up.


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## tguil (Mar 3, 2003)

As long as folks can get better results with a release, you simply will not make converts. IMO there is only one place that fingers can give better results -- that's hunting, especially still hunting. I don't participate in any competitive shooting. Tried it. Didn't like. I'm a bowhunter and I shoot fingers. If I wanted to get into competitive shooting with someone to shoot against. I think that I may have to learn to "like" a release. 

Tom

p.s. "Youngsters" seem to like black plastic guns too. Give me blue steel and wood anytime.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

There seems to be a lot of talk, about having a compound archery class in the 2016 Olympics. If this happens and they allow fingers only, as they do the recurve competitors,
it would help bring the younger crowd into finger shooting compounds. When/if compounds are allowed in the Olympics, I’m sure that college teams will start using them. I have shot with the U.T. archers, I was very impressed with how many really good finger shooters they had. But who knows if/when this happens they may allow releases. 

Another thing that may help us get more finger shooters out there is to invite your local college teams to your shoots. They may not enjoy 3D type of shoots but I’ll bet they would love to shoot some NFAA type of field rounds. Traditional they all stand in an open field, line up in a row and shoot. The up/down hill challenges of shooting through the woods, on a field course, may be inviting to them.

Maybe we should to try to get the NFAA to start a Recurve Free Style Limited class for the Olympic/College style shooters.

Happy Trails
Keith


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Compound may kill itself in competition through its own success. Already it is a game of misses rather than hits as FITA scores approach the maximum of 1440. How often can the rules change to build space between shooters before someone has the brilliant idea to get rid of the release. This will result in instant separation between shooters and lower scores, leaving more room for growth.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

NASP programs are bringing finger shooting to kids that are "unspoiled" by the archery industry. Not only finger shooting but barebow to boot. The program is HUGE in the US. There may hope yet. :wink:


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## muskywhisprr (Sep 28, 2009)

I think most people shoot a release because that is the accepted standard. I am 28 and have a lot of people come up to me at the club wondering why i shoot fingers. However by the end of the conversation it usually comes up that they used to really enjoy shooting fingers.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

I’m telling you guys that there is a lot of finger shooters out there that you never see. U.T. is hosting the TSAA Texas State Indoor Championships right now. Most major colleges have an archery team/club. The tournament is right here in my home town and I did not even know about it. I’m a member of the TFAA and the NFAA, and did not know about the TSAA. The tournament is a FITA shoot. It seems that the NFAA and the FITA/college folks just don’t mingle much. If you click on the following post and look at the “photos from last year” you’ll note that there is a lot of finger shooters. I plan on entering several of the TSAA shoots this year and I bet that I get several of them to attend some of the TFAA shoots. I’m sure I’ll enjoy myself and make several new friends.
If you have a major college in your area, google it and find out if they have an archery team/club. If they do then get off your rear and go shoot with them.
It's an easy, fun and cost effective way to get more finger shooters to attend your shoots.

http://www.texasarchery.org/Registrations/10/Indoor/SIreg.htm

Happy Trails
Keith


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Great idea Keith, inviting the college kids to our shoots. It would be a hoot to see a bunch of kids with FITA rigs show up a the local 3D extravaganza. That would get a lot of folks talkin for sure.

IBBW, good point. Now if we can only find a way to keep the NASP kids from going over to the dark side.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Old Sarge said:


> Great idea Keith, inviting the college kids to our shoots. It would be a hoot to see a bunch of kids with FITA rigs show up a the local 3D extravaganza. That would get a lot of folks talkin for sure.
> QUOTE]
> 
> If you'll look at the photos online, from last years TSAA State Indoor shoot, you notice several traditional shooters and a lot of compound shooters. Sad to say that most of the compound shooters are using a hook.
> ...


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

crazy thought, but. there's a reasonable amount of people who post in this fingers section. worldwide there'd be probably a lot more that still haven't bumped into it yet.
wonder how hard it would be to perhaps get, like, a simple quarterly magazine out, for us, by us, supported by us &c. with heaps of photo shoots and coverage of fingers class and events &c. 
if enough people on here were keen, and perhaps the first year or so of editions were printed to pre-ordered numbers, to manage printing costs, it culd easily be done,.
then the advantage there is, a mag that not only is great for all of us who already love finger shooting and have the passion, but for others it may present it in a more favourable light. there's something about the look of somebody at full draw with fingers that release shooters just haven't got.
and if it were only a quarterly, after a month or two when you've read every word in your copy up, down and sideways you could pass it on to some release shooting friends to have a look at, or strategically "leave" it lying around in a proshop, or pass on to somebody who is interested in beginning archery.
actually, i'd be pretty keen on this idea. if it happens, put me down for the first subscription lol.
but seriously, anybody else keen on having a go at this?
oh, and the other thin with it there is it could help to solidify a decent community of finger shooters, especially in conjunction with this forum.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

A friend of mine (a band director) started the NASP program at our school this year but for now it only includes grade school, 4th, 5th and 6th graders. Its a start. Our state game and fish comission is offering 3 free bows/arrows to any organisation that will get certified instructors (the game and fish offers the course for free) and participates in NASP. Our church is looking at it for all our kids. We are talking to surrounding area churches as well. I know most of us here have grown kids but anyone with teaching credentials could get certified in NASP and start a program at your local area school, school's or help out an existing program.


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## Silver Mallard (Mar 25, 2004)

*limited*

Well, you guys may be getting another addition to the fingers ranks. Last year I thought about moving to the limited division from the open A class because I already shoot traditional archery for hunting. I figured why not go fingers for competition as well. My question is: What rest will I need? I see most of the limited guys bo doodles. I never could get one to shoot straight with a release. And I see the limited guys using two finger tabs...where are they getting these or are they modifying three finger tabs to fit? 
Thanks for the info.
Dave


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

what rest will you need is a kinda big question. Best thing to do is try a few until you find one that suits you.
as for two and three finger tabs &c. just shoot bare fingers lol. takes a little bit to get used to, but after a short while its no problem lol. And I find my best shots are always bare-finger shots lol.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Been telling my 16 year old son about me getting into finger shooting. Now he is interested. I have two left handed finger bows on the way. Now I am looking for an old right handed finger bow for him. Should be easier to find. This is how you keep the sport alive -- pass it on to the next generation. We are going to see who catches on fastest: the barebow recurve shooter (me) or the compound release shooter (my son). I think it is no contest -- the recurve shooter will win.


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## NFN (Jan 10, 2010)

I recently made my first visit to a particular archery shop and discovered that the oldest employee in the place was about 30 years old. When I told him I was looking for an arrow rest for shooting fingers with a compound bow, he looked at me like I was nuts and said, "fingers with a compound?" He tried to sell me every kind of arrow rest you can imagine, so I made an attempt at explaining why a finger shooter would need something different, but he never seemed to get it. Needless to say, I was quite disappointed in this shop and will continue to purchase my archery needs through online stores.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

The manufacturers are not interested in building 44”+ ATA, 8’+ BH, mild eccentric bows as a serious offering. Finger shooters are stuck with tournament bows that just happen to be the closest thing to our interest (and most of the time they still must be special ordered) or scavenging the Classifieds or Ebay for good used stuff.

Companies and dealers are all stampeding down this FPS speed path because speed is an objective measurement they can market verses the subjective feeling of “forgiveness”. FPS also motivates shooters to “trade up” more often as their current bow suddenly feels inadequate. If you follow the General and Bowhunting AT forums many are trying figure which 2009 models they will replace with 2010s. They are very good at creating a market that rapidly turns it self over every year or so. This is their cash cow.

I switched to a barebow recurve last year from a sighted compound because other then this AT finger forum I was virtually alone in finger shooting in West Michigan. The 2 previous years I shot some IBO HF tournaments in Michigan and was one of two folks competing in the class in the entire state (never did cross paths with the other guy). Conversely, I’ve found a winter league within 25 miles of home with more the 30 stickbow/traditional shooters.

In a nutshell, if you are going to continue to be a finger compound shooter then you need to recognize that you are a very small niche. Be OK and proud of you chosen technique, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that the mainstream is going to swing back your way anytime soon. Remember that archery is not a “one size fits all” hobby, even among release shooters.

As a foot note, my hunting companions always looked at me weird for shooting a compound with fingers. They are convinced I totally lost my mind since I switched to a recurve.

Good luck everyone!
:darkbeer:


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Getting others to see the light is a door that swings both ways. I'm sure release shooters would be as whole hearted and passionate about trying to get you to shoot a hook as you do trying to get them to shoot fingers.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Manufacturer's cater to what sells and it's speed, radical cams and shorter bows. Period. Get over it. 
The sad reality is that except for the NAA recurve shooters with the goal to get into the Olympics, and the very few who march to the beat of a different drummer, I think I'm among the last generation of true finger shooters.


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## tguil (Mar 3, 2003)

Good point. I agree.

Tom


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

Ya got to grow 'em, the clubs or the industry ain't gonna produce 'em.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

IBBW said:


> Ya got to grow 'em, the clubs or the industry ain't gonna produce 'em.


So True. The ONLY way I think fingers will ever survive is thru NASP. It's the only hope as far as I can see. The biggie is that when you and I were kids, there weren't cell phones, malls, video games, and a zillion other things to choose from to occupy our time and it was a much simpler time too.... tell....


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## tguil (Mar 3, 2003)

I worked with kiddos for over 40 years as a teacher and principal, as soon as they find out how much better the can shoot with a release, they'll be gone. Just like the grown-ups. 

The only reason I still shoot fingers is that it is "easier" and less complicated for me. If I shot spots and wanted to see those "x's" I'd switch in a minute, but I'm a bowhunter, not a target guy.

Tom


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## fingers shooter (Feb 10, 2007)

I feel the same as many of you do that shooting fingers is a challenge but the fact is shooting a release is easier and faster results I hate to say that but its true. I was at the last asa in florida and talked to Mike from the Asa and he imformed me that the limited pro would be there this year and if numbers didnt get better then it would looked at when the year was over. I would have to guess if the pro class goes then the amateur class would be next. Unfortunately if the asa goes that way the ibo might be right behind them. So for those of us that want to see finger shooting around for awhile we need to get out the promote,promote ,promote. I started to shooting fingers back in 07' and shot a apex 7 and shot a 38" slayer last year so I know theres bow being made by companys that will shoot with fingers so lets not lay the blame anywhere other than lack of interest in our way of shooting and lets all be proactive and recruit people.


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

I don't understand why more people don't see it the same way as I do; if you switch to a release and get better results straight away, then that has nothing to do with skill - it's the device doing that for you. There is no sense of achievement whatsoever in doing that IMO. That's part ofthe reason I shoot with fingers.
I think another good idea would be if there were some kind of "golden boy" who could do for compound finger shooting what Howard Hill did for archery in general. 
You know, some famous face who could nail all sorts of awesome trick shots and make little kiddies want to emulate him lol.


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## capool (Aug 5, 2003)

IBBW said:


> NASP programs are bringing finger shooting to kids that are "unspoiled" by the archery industry. Not only finger shooting but barebow to boot. The program is HUGE in the US. There may hope yet. :wink:


I was in the pro shop today and they sold 3 bows to kids in the NASP and one target for one that already had a bow.


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## NDTerminator (Nov 6, 2006)

For me, shooting compound/fingers is just a natural progression in a desire to enjoy and be skilled at all forms of archery. My finger bow is a Reflex Caribou, BTW.

One thing that impedes folks who want to try fingers is the lack of finger bows available and the cost of those that are. Back in the 90's there were a lot of reasonably priced 38" or better axle to axle bows with moderate cams or wheels, nowdays a bow that's as long as even 34" is rare, and they all have radical cams...


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## trainer_will (Aug 26, 2008)

KStover said:


> Maybe we should to try to get the NFAA to start a Recurve Free Style Limited class for the Olympic/College style shooters.
> 
> Happy Trails
> Keith


NFAA does have that class in most age divisions...it is freestyle limited recurve/longbow (FSLR/L)

Will


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

NDTerminator said:


> For me, shooting compound/fingers is just a natural progression in a desire to enjoy and be skilled at all forms of archery. My finger bow is a Reflex Caribou, BTW.
> 
> One thing that impedes folks who want to try fingers is the lack of finger bows available and the cost of those that are. Back in the 90's there were a lot of reasonably priced 38" or better axle to axle bows with moderate cams or wheels, nowdays a bow that's as long as even 34" is rare, and they all have radical cams...


What year is your Caribou? I shoot an 06. I defintely agree about desire to be skilled at archery; release shooting requires little skill, fingershooting requires skill!
Nothing wrong with hard cams and a nice hard wall on finger bows, though, dude.


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## NDTerminator (Nov 6, 2006)

Noobist said:


> What year is your Caribou? I shoot an 06. I defintely agree about desire to be skilled at archery; release shooting requires little skill, fingershooting requires skill!
> Nothing wrong with hard cams and a nice hard wall on finger bows, though, dude.


06' or 07', I forget. Believe it was the last year they had accuwheels that had to be ordered in either 28", 29", or 30". Mine's 29" and has always been a little long. Currectly trying to get a set of LH 28" accuwheels or a complete upgrade to the current wheels which adjust from 26"-29.5"...


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