# Limb smoothness/ looking for ideas



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

G3's were pretty smooth limbs for foam core. But by far, the smoothest feeling ILF limbs I've shot are the SKY bamboo core limbs made by Jim Belcher. They just feel elastic at the clicker. Next to those, my Samick Masters always give me a good, smooth draw and I still like them very much. But notice, I suggested one bamboo core and one maple core limb. I've still not ever shot a foam core limb that was as smooth drawing as a wood/bamboo core limb.

Having said all that, I have a 32.5" draw length, which few archers in the world have, so my needs are not the same as your needs. At 29.25", you will not reach the stacking point of most limbs unless you're shooting a bow that's 66" or less. Any 68 or 70" bow with just about any set of limbs should be more than smooth enough for you. 

This whole issue of "smoothness" is all relative too. The human body is such an amazing thing. We can adapt to just about any new feeling within days or weeks. So whatever limbs you use, you will get used to them unless they are just at the limits of their performance, and I doubt anything you'll shoot at 29.25" will be pushed that far.

Beware when comparing "smoothness" of different limbs at different draw weights. Our bodies "identify" with a specific draw weight pretty quickly. It's amazing how we can feel the difference between mere ounces in draw weight, so even though a limb may technically be measurably smoother according to the draw force curve, if it is a few lbs. heavier, it probably won't "feel" smoother to you.

John


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

If you measure smoothness by pounds/inch at the later end of the draw then you cannot beat Border HEX6 limbs or any of the extreme recurves by Border. I have been shooting them barebow and they are the smoothest I have ever felt. I am going to set them up on an Oly bow someday to see how good they feel through a clicker.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Hank, I failed to mention the Border limbs. They are, by all measurements, the smoothest limbs by a longshot. A most unique draw force curve to be sure. One that I've had mixed experiences with.

Here's a DFC I did that includes the Border Hex-6w limbs I have


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

John,

Here are some of the smoothness tests that I have done. This curve is the first derivative of the DFC for both Border Extreme recurves and conventional limb geometries. You can see the unique behavior of the HEX limb profile, and the very low pounds per inch of pull at the end of the draw. The valley in the smoothness curve corresponds, roughly, to the string lift point -- the point where the string no longer lays against the limbs. The HEX6 are only a 1 1/2 pounds per inch at 32 inches of draw. I use the first derivative curve as my primary measure when comparing limbs. It is too difficult to discern features from a straight DFC, though you can definitely see how the Border limbs seem to be anti-stacking in your data, with the RX stacking the most.


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## DanZ (Feb 17, 2009)

John, do you have a chart like that that compares your original sky carbon maple limbs to the new sky bamboo? I know you have mentioned that the boo is faster, is it empirically smoother?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Dan, give me about 4 days, and I should be able to make that comparison. Gotta get some limbs back from someone first.

John


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## eagle man (Jun 7, 2011)

Guys, The Sky carbon maple ones were the ones I tested and talked about in my opening. I may have to borrow them again. Guess they just seemed stiff to me at the time. John you always make sense to me. Your right about the human body and adjusting. Now I'm excited to borrow those limbs and give them more of a try. They were 44# and I had been shooting 42#. I'm very interested in seeing that comparison on the Maple vs Bamboo. You guys are GREAT for helping those of us that need a little or a lot.

Thanks guys....send me that comparison if you will.


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

Border limbs are very smooth if you compare the feel to Say Hoyt G3's of the same weight they feel soft and Win&Win inno's will feel hard like they make the string feel like its cutting into the tab willing you to release. 
A note about the Border limbs especially the Hex limbs are they're very fast limbs more bange for your buck.

It's all vague but the speed is some thing you can measure and Borders tend to be quicker then the rest.


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## gpb (Feb 14, 2009)

John I understand you have a set of Borders new Hex6's. What's been your experience with them? I've been shooting a set of HEX5's on an RX handle for the past 2 years and have found them to be the smoothest, fastest, most forgiving set of limbs I've ever had the pleasure of shooting. I'm currently awaiting a new set of HEX6 bb2's so I'm very interested in your impressions of your 6's


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

I've had a pair of HEX 6H BB2 (35# longs) for a few weeks now. They are very impressive. In hand, they are definitely the lightest (physical weight) limbs I have ever felt. They plugged into my riser perfectly aligned and with perfectly matched tiller. Twisting the limbs by hand, they are by far the most torsionally stiff limbs I had ever felt. I'm using a very low brace height of 7.75" on a 70" bow. I had to build a special string to get this brace height. The final string length I was 68.5", which turned out to be the same string length I build for 72" bows. There is more string contact on the limbs at the ends, due to the more aggressive recurve, so I had to make the end servings 7" long, rather than the usual 6". I previously shot 990TX, M1, and Edge (wood/glass). The draw force curve on the HEX 6 definitely feels different than anything I've tried before. Everyone who had tried my bow has said the same thing. It's amazing how differently the body reacts to only a couple of pounds difference anywhere in the draw cycle. The draw force is front heavy, so as I begin to draw, it feels like the limbs are heavier than marked. Once I approach anchor, the draw force feels more normal and the limbs become very, very smooth. At first, I had a bit of trouble with the front end loading, because that is when I normally try to relax, and establish my alignment and balance. My muscles were just not used to seeing that extra force in that location. The higher front end loading threw me off until I got used to it, which took a few weeks. I turned down the holding weight by about 1 - 2 pounds to help. With the reduced holding weight and smoothness at anchor, I discovered that I was able to feel my back engage a lot more. I slapped on some Limbsavers, as I do with all my limbs. The HEX 6's do make a bit more noise than my 990's, but my 990's were already very quiet to begin with. Normally, I use zero tiller on my limbs, but the HEX 6's seem to be quietest with a bit of tiller, about 1 - 2 mm. Altogether, even with the reduced holding weight and Limbsavers, my MK2 arrows still clocked at 207 ft/sec with the HEX 6's, as opposed to 194 ft/sec with my previous limbs, using the same arrows. I was amazed that even with the increase in speed, my arrows tuned about the same.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yes, the Border limbs will sling the same arrow faster, while maintaining tune. It's a property that is rather unique to their limbs - at least, to the degree that they achieve it. 



> The draw force is front heavy, so as I begin to draw, it feels like the limbs are heavier than marked. Once I approach anchor, the draw force feels more normal and the limbs become very, very smooth. At first, I had a bit of trouble with the front end loading, because that is when I normally try to relax, and establish my alignment and balance. My muscles were just not used to seeing that extra force in that location. The higher front end loading threw me off until I got used to it, which took a few weeks.


Unfortunately, I didn't feel like I have a few weeks to "get used to it" and this is why my Hex-6's sit in my workshop for now. An amazing limb to be sure, but unusual and unique enough that I would just have to have more time to learn the in's and out's of them.

I think, in addition to specific draw weights, our bodies become accustomed to specific draw force curves. I know mine is "set" for a SKY/Earl Hoyt Jr. limb. That's what I'm familiar with, and what my body expects to feel when I begin to draw the bow. Even the most subtle changes in draw force curves throw my shot sequence off.

John


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

I hope eagle man doesn't mind, but I have a question for Limbwalker related to limb smoothness, and this seemed like the most appropriate thread to ask it in. I tried sending him a PM, but his inbox is full 

After a two-year break, I finally managed to shoot a few arrows on the weekend under the eye of an experienced coach. It looks like my draw length is bang on 32" to the back of the bow.

This has got me thinking about bow lengths. Specifically, about the DFC of a Bernardini Luxor with long Border HEX6 limbs, to make a 72in bow.

Question is, is 32" long enough on that set up to benefit from the smoothness of the Border limb? I've chatted with Sid, and he thinks it probably would be a better bet than a 25" riser with XL limbs, but then it occured to me that you have a near identical set up sitting in your workshop 

What do you think? Do you have a DFC mapped that shows how a Luxor + HEX6 set up performs past 31in?

I'm not a 1200+ shooter (yet, he said hopefully) so I don't mind trading a little speed for stability. My ultimate goal is to be back shooting something around 43-45lbs, which should be perfectly quick enough to get me to 90m.

Thanks


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Unfortunately, I didn't feel like I have a few weeks to "get used to it" and this is why my Hex-6's sit in my workshop for now. An amazing limb to be sure, but unusual and unique enough that I would just have to have more time to learn the in's and out's of them.


I tried to get used to that for 4 months, in the end I sold those Hex limbs.

Now I'm back shooting Sky Conquests and couldn't be happier. I still have Border EP10's as a backup. Plus some Mk Korea, W&W, Samick etc limbs if I feel bored and want to toy with a second bow 

But that front-heavy draw cycle definetely killed any gain that they would have at full draw. Which is sad, as old Border Carbons and EP10's work extremely well at that part of the draw, and that part is extremely important for me in my setup.


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## gpb (Feb 14, 2009)

John_K said:


> I hope eagle man doesn't mind, but I have a question for Limbwalker related to limb smoothness, and this seemed like the most appropriate thread to ask it in. I tried sending him a PM, but his inbox is full
> 
> After a two-year break, I finally managed to shoot a few arrows on the weekend under the eye of an experienced coach. It looks like my draw length is bang on 32" to the back of the bow.
> 
> ...


Johnk; I might be able to help a little on your question I've got a 27" fx handle with a set of long Hex5's giving me a bow length of 72" at a draw length of 31.5" giving me 44# at the click. I reach 90m just fine with a set of 530 nano xl's with 120gr points. I first tried a set of mediums but found the longs to be much more comfortable on the fingers and still give plenty of speed, and they were smoother. The smoothness of the HEX limbs I've found to be a big plus for an older guy like myself,I'll turn 60 this sept. Pulling a set of limbs thru the clicker increasing at 2.2#/in (Win Win,PSE. Hoyt etc..) vs. The hex5 at 1.7#/in or the hex6 at 1.3#/in. makes a big difference in how my joints hold up. It can also make a big difference in how you finnish after a long round like a full FITA they just shot in AZ. Being able to still control the shot the last few ends at 30m or struggling just to finnish. As for the first part of the draw loading a little heavier. after a week I didn't even notice it. but that easy holding at full draw is really noticable and as DK said you can really work at getting your back working right.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> John,


Lets have some fun then guys.

Look at this data. Its a fact. not subjective.

in that first inch of draw, how much does is the Highest inital lbs gained. and how much is the lowest initial gain.

Lets have a look at the numbers.

The PSE Pro-elite and the PSE carbons both gain higher rates of lbs than the hex limbs.
this means that the weight gain is greater?

this is the case from 10-14" and possibly out to 16" of draw.

remember these are not normal recurves. and they dont work by initial preload. thats Old school energy draw. these are NOT old school limbs.

from 16" to 24" we do have a higher rate of gain by some 0.2lbs per inch, that then leads to a fun full length draw, where you are some 0.4lbs less gain per inch.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

zal said:


> I tried to get used to that for 4 months, in the end I sold those Hex limbs.
> 
> Now I'm back shooting Sky Conquests and couldn't be happier. I still have Border EP10's as a backup. Plus some Mk Korea, W&W, Samick etc limbs if I feel bored and want to toy with a second bow
> 
> But that front-heavy draw cycle definetely killed any gain that they would have at full draw. Which is sad, as old Border Carbons and EP10's work extremely well at that part of the draw, and that part is extremely important for me in my setup.


Zal, If you take DK Lieu's info, that heavy front end or mid stroke, and drop your final holding weight by 6lbs, aka 13fps, you could achive the same speed of 194fps with the same arrow mass. This would surely negate the mid bulge in the DFC vs effort in shooting...

You have never had anything positive to say about our hex limbs, and i have offered to make you XP10 limbs. since you say you like them soo much.

I can say from DK Lieu information id sooner get over my subjective feeling on what i favour for 6lbs worth of bow performance. without the holding weight... but thats what our R&D is aimed at achieving so im heavily biased. more performance for the same holding weight just for a different feeling!
Its this concept that masses up the grains per pound minumum values, since one bow shoots 6lbs harder for the same GPP. it also messes up the spine charts, showing that neither speed, nor holding weight are the key to spine.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Dropping that much weight will destroy my release. 48# is still 48# at full draw, no matter how you reach it.

I don't really have anything positive to say about hex limbs as I dropped hugely points when I tried to shoot them, even XP10 are too "curvy" for me. 1995-1996 era Carbons I think are the last really good limb you've made 

Some other notable manufacturers have gone recently with less recurve. When I asked one developer recently why's that they markedly said that they got so much feedback that those limbs felt "funny" and their prostaffers weren't comfortable with them as they wanted more solid feeling at full draw. I think they have something in that, as the limb I'm currently shooting has least recurve from my limbs, and even then it's one of the smoothest and pretty quick at that.

Having said that, yesterday I was at field, looking at one archer who started to train with a loaned set of hex5's and he seemed happy with them, shooting 335 at 60m out of box. But he has very short draw for 68" limb, so he didn't get that strange lumpy feeling that long draw archers seem to report with them.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

zal said:


> Dropping that much weight will destroy my release. 48# is still 48# at full draw, no matter how you reach it.
> 
> I don't really have anything positive to say about hex limbs as I dropped hugely points when I tried to shoot them, even XP10 are too "curvy" for me. 1995-1996 era Carbons I think are the last really good limb you've made
> 
> ...



Your getting better feed back than we are.
and we sell 78% of our product direct. no dealers, and no distributers...

we have only sold 4-5 sets into finland.
though ive no idea whats going on ebay.

Check out the ILF longbow limbs, they have no recurve...


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Zal, How do Hex limbs get a reputation for being the smoothest limbs out there, and you have a local anomally in a "lumpy" feel.

Have a look at Limb walkers DFC, and just have a look at it.
can you point out the lump in this DFC
From LW: post, the limsb with the heighest initial lift is the Hoyt limbs. We just continue the trend, while the hoyt limb changes its mood quite early, and then starts to stack... thats is 3 areas of energy. we only have 1.5 areas. Please explain this lumpy feeling.

Could it be said that we have the MOST linear energy storeage of any bow? since we dont have stack... ie, no lumps.

Im sure Hank, or some other maths boffin can proove this one from the bows in thier hands, rather than my data


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

gpb - Thank you! That does sound reassuring. Sounds like a fantastic set up you have there.

Limb feel - I understand Limbwalker's point exactly. With it being an Olympic year he doesn't want to chop and change. However, for those of us without such lofty considerations, it doesn't take all that much to get used to the way a different limb feels. For a little while I used to swap between a set of XP10s and TX40 Golds, and while the difference was always noticable at first, it was easy enough to adapt to.

I suppose if the weight does come in a little earlier it may affect the way the pre-draw feels and how you load the back muscles. You can either adapt, or choose not to, it all comes down to individual preferences 

As for differences between the XP10 limb shape and the slightly older Border carbons, I don't seem to recall there being any. The XP10 used a typical recurve shape, and it was only when Border decided to transpose the older Black Douglas limb shape to their ILF offerings that the shape began to evolve. I'm sure Sid can correct me if I'm wrong


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

John_K said:


> Limb feel - I understand Limbwalker's point exactly. With it being an Olympic year he doesn't want to chop and change. However, for those of us without such lofty considerations, it doesn't take all that much to get used to the way a different limb feels. For a little while I used to swap between a set of XP10s and TX40 Golds, and while the difference was always noticable at first, it was easy enough to adapt to.
> 
> I suppose if the weight does come in a little earlier it may affect the way the pre-draw feels and how you load the back muscles. You can either adapt, or choose not to, it all comes down to individual preferences


Agree completely. I mentioned earlier that it took me a few weeks to get used to the feel of the HEX 6. I should add that "a few weeks" is for a weekend warrior in his mid 50's. I'm usually on the field only a couple of times a week. I'm sure that a more dedicated shooter could get used to a different draw-force curve much quicker. The HEX 6 feels completely natural to me now, and I've shot some really good groups with them. But "feel" is entirely subjective. I did put my old limbs back on my riser for a short while, just to compare them to the Border limbs. After getting used to the HEX 6, it's my old limbs that now feel strange. In particular, I now find the stacking of my old limbs to be intolerable. Also, I would find it hard to give up the extra 13 ft/sec, with less holding weight, that I am now enjoying.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

John_K said:


> As for differences between the XP10 limb shape and the slightly older Border carbons, I don't seem to recall there being any. The XP10 used a typical recurve shape, and it was only when Border decided to transpose the older Black Douglas limb shape to their ILF offerings that the shape began to evolve. I'm sure Sid can correct me if I'm wrong


I have a pair of original XP10's and a pair of Carbofast-branded border limbs. Of the two, there aren't really noticeable differences in profile, but the carbofast-limb is wider. And there is a distinctive feel difference.

I actually kinda liked the Talismans I had too, but even with them I found having to adapt predraw and setup.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Borderbows said:


> we have only sold 4-5 sets into finland.
> though ive no idea whats going on ebay.


Btw Sid, we have currently 4 sets of Borders in my current club (2 are mine, one set is on loan), 2 in my previous club (1 was previously mine) and 6 sets that I know of which are in circulation in Finland. Plus some old, old sets. Tomi Poikolainen used to sell them locally around 2000-2005 iirc, but I think they came from JVD so there are still some around from that time too, some of which aren't currently in active use. I've bought most of mine from friends around Europe.

Archery community in Finland is pretty tight knit bunch, and as I'm involved in many various things, I kind of know what almost everybody worth knowing shoots at any given time


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

zal said:


> Btw Sid, we have currently 4 sets of Borders in my current club (2 are mine, one set is on loan), 2 in my previous club (1 was previously mine) and 6 sets that I know of which are in circulation in Finland. Plus some old, old sets. Tomi Poikolainen used to sell them locally around 2000-2005 iirc, but I think they came from JVD so there are still some around from that time too, some of which aren't currently in active use. I've bought most of mine from friends around Europe.
> 
> Archery community in Finland is pretty tight knit bunch, and as I'm involved in many various things, I kind of know what almost everybody worth knowing shoots at any given time


There are as many people on this thread alone that say our limbs are smooth and not "lumpy"... as there are in finland shooting our limbs.

We have 1800 pairs of hex5 limbs sold, all by word of mouth and by facts and figures. and we have over 230 pairs of hex6 limbs out there now. in 6 months. The hex5 has been a success in that the hex6 has had our fastest ever uptake for a new product. so we must be doing something right. Alot of the hex5 customers have upgraded. so they are happy with them.

We will most certainly NOT be stoping the Hex developemnt. infact we will be pushing it further. We have plans to increase smoothness, increase the Cam effect and reduce working limb mass even further. 

Since this is 180 deg in the opposit direction to what you personally like, i know our product lineup will most certainly not be of your taste. 
We aim to try our best to deliver a compound like energy storage, so that we can deliver the best possible arrow speed for the holding weight. (we dont think its possible to get letoff on a recurve, so no lumps will be present)
This will not be to the liking of the old school mode of thinking, but the archers that have benfited from speed and smoothness are the ones we want to please. We have made old school limbs, and the R&D is paid for, that is why our Talisman series limb is still available with our newer CXC full carbon laminate for a MUCH smaller fee of $420 for the CXG. (sythetic core)

We will see where our R&D takes us eh?


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

zal said:


> I have a pair of original XP10's and a pair of Carbofast-branded border limbs. Of the two, there aren't really noticeable differences in profile, but the carbofast-limb is wider. And there is a distinctive feel difference.
> 
> I actually kinda liked the Talismans I had too, but even with them I found having to adapt predraw and setup.


To be clear, I'm not taking issue with you over your personal preferences at all. I just don't understand or agree with them, but that's fine 

Also, regarding the effect of dropping weight on your release: the coaches I respect all advise that you should seek to develop a release that works regardless of the holding weight. A heavier draw weight will escape the fingers more quickly, but if the weight is carried on the back and the fingers truly relax at the point of release, it shouldn't matter whether you're holding 28lbs or 48lbs. Perhaps this is a good topic for a new thread?

Happy shooting


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## gpb (Feb 14, 2009)

DK Lieu said:


> Agree completely. I mentioned earlier that it took me a few weeks to get used to the feel of the HEX 6. I should add that "a few weeks" is for a weekend warrior in his mid 50's. I'm usually on the field only a couple of times a week. I'm sure that a more dedicated shooter could get used to a different draw-force curve much quicker. The HEX 6 feels completely natural to me now, and I've shot some really good groups with them. But "feel" is entirely subjective. I did put my old limbs back on my riser for a short while, just to compare them to the Border limbs. After getting used to the HEX 6, it's my old limbs that now feel strange. In particular, I now find the stacking of my old limbs to be intolerable. Also, I would find it hard to give up the extra 13 ft/sec, with less holding weight, that I am now enjoying.


DK I'd be curious what your set up is for the HEX6's, bow weight, arrow spine, and where your button is set. I've found with the HEX5's the button has to be set either center or just past the right of center of the shaft, so its completly different from the standard limb set up with the arrow left of center.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

gpb said:


> DK I'd be curious what your set up is for the HEX6's, bow weight, arrow spine, and where your button is set. I've found with the HEX5's the button has to be set either center or just past the right of center of the shaft, so its completly different from the standard limb set up with the arrow left of center.


Brian Jarret also found this to be the case when tuning hex5's.

There is a review you can find on a "Best Archery Forum"

Im sure he will be in at some point.


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

gpb said:


> DK I'd be curious what your set up is for the HEX6's, bow weight, arrow spine, and where your button is set. I've found with the HEX5's the button has to be set either center or just past the right of center of the shaft, so its completely different from the standard limb set up with the arrow left of center.


Limbs are marked 38 lbs at 29.75" draw. I've turned out the limb bolts a bit to reduce the weight at the front end of the draw, so I'm currently holding 37 lbs at 29.75". Arrows are McKinney 2, 725 spine, 29" shaft only, 120 grain ACE points, ACE pins, Beiter large-groove pin-out nocks, 2" spin wings. Button is Shibuya DX. Spring in the button is a light spring scavenged from a ball-point pen, so the plunger force is rather light. Center-shot is set so the arrow is dead center with the string. String is 20-strand 8125G. With this setup, I think the arrows are a just a tad stiff. The tail of the bare shaft is sometimes canted about 1" to the right, bare shafts land a couple of inches to the left of the group at 18 m. I occasionally clip the bottom right vane slightly on the arrow rest. I'm thinking about removing the pins and installing standard Beiter insert nocks to lighten the tail, and weaken the arrow a bit. More info on my setup can be found on my AT profile. I'm not yet finished experimenting with the setup, so it may change.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

DK Lieu said:


> Limbs are marked 38 lbs at 29.75" draw. I've turned out the limb bolts a bit to reduce the weight at the front end of the draw, so I'm currently holding 37 lbs at 29.75". Arrows are McKinney 2, 725 spine, 29" shaft only, 120 grain ACE points, ACE pins, Beiter large-groove pin-out nocks, 2" spin wings. Button is Shibuya DX. Spring in the button is a light spring scavenged from a ball-point pen, so the plunger force is rather light. Center-shot is set so the arrow is dead center with the string. String is 20-strand 8125G. With this setup, I think the arrows are a just a tad stiff. The tail of the bare shaft is sometimes canted about 1" to the right, bare shafts land a couple of inches to the left of the group at 18 m. I occasionally clip the bottom right vane slightly on the arrow rest. I'm thinking about removing the pins and installing standard Beiter insert nocks to lighten the tail, and weaken the arrow a bit. More info on my setup can be found on my AT profile. I'm not yet finished experimenting with the setup, so it may change.


Whats your brace height?

some people have said any front end load is removed if you drop your brace height. For example the preload reduces, sothe initial string tension drops.

Either way, reducing draw weight and still having a faster arrow is a bonus.
(we have a habit of wanting to push a little more everytime.)


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

Borderbows said:


> Whats your brace height?
> 
> some people have said any front end load is removed if you drop your brace height. For example the preload reduces, sothe initial string tension drops.
> 
> ...


I'm currently using a brace height of 7.75", with a 2 mm tiller, on the HEX 6H limbs. The bow seems to be reasonably quiet at this setting. I'm hesitant to go any lower in brace height because I sometimes feel a very slight "buzz" on my bow arm toward the wrist from the string. The buzz might just be sloppy releases. I think the low brace height was another thing to which my body needed to adapt. My previous brace height, with my old limbs, was 9.5". My body was not used to seeing a new loaded draw length that was essentially 1.75" longer than the previous one. But neither the front end load nor the low brace height are a problem any more, because my body has (rather quickly) adapted to these. In fact, I sometimes think of turning the limb bolts back down a bit to bring the draw weight back up. A slight increase in draw weight might even take care of the arrow being slightly stiff.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

DK Lieu said:


> I'm currently using a brace height of 7.75", with a 2 mm tiller, on the HEX 6H limbs. The bow seems to be reasonably quiet at this setting. I'm hesitant to go any lower in brace height because I sometimes feel a very slight "buzz" on my bow arm toward the wrist from the string. The buzz might just be sloppy releases. I think the low brace height was another thing to which my body needed to adapt. My previous brace height, with my old limbs, was 9.5". My body was not used to seeing a new loaded draw length that was essentially 1.75" longer than the previous one. But neither the front end load nor the low brace height are a problem any more, because my body has (rather quickly) adapted to these. In fact, I sometimes think of turning the limb bolts back down a bit to bring the draw weight back up. A slight increase in draw weight might even take care of the arrow being slightly stiff.


that makes sence...


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## gpb (Feb 14, 2009)

DK Lieu said:


> I'm currently using a brace height of 7.75", with a 2 mm tiller, on the HEX 6H limbs. The bow seems to be reasonably quiet at this setting. I'm hesitant to go any lower in brace height because I sometimes feel a very slight "buzz" on my bow arm toward the wrist from the string. The buzz might just be sloppy releases. I think the low brace height was another thing to which my body needed to adapt. My previous brace height, with my old limbs, was 9.5". My body was not used to seeing a new loaded draw length that was essentially 1.75" longer than the previous one. But neither the front end load nor the low brace height are a problem any more, because my body has (rather quickly) adapted to these. In fact, I sometimes think of turning the limb bolts back down a bit to bring the draw weight back up. A slight increase in draw weight might even take care of the arrow being slightly stiff.


DK; My nano xl's were also showing slightly overspine. I tune at 30m and they would land a few inches to the left of fletched group. I see two things you could do. Either drop your strand count on your string , I shoot 18strand with 8125 at 44# . Add a few strands under serving to keep nock size. Or move your button so the arrow sits about 1/2 its dia to the right of the string. I've taken high speed video, 1000fps of this set up and get very good clearance and the bareshaft now flies dead straight and the fletched shafts group very well.


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

gpb said:


> DK; My nano xl's were also showing slightly overspine. I tune at 30m and they would land a few inches to the left of fletched group. I see two things you could do. Either drop your strand count on your string , I shoot 18strand with 8125 at 44# . Add a few strands under serving to keep nock size. Or move your button so the arrow sits about 1/2 its dia to the right of the string. I've taken high speed video, 1000fps of this set up and get very good clearance and the bareshaft now flies dead straight and the fletched shafts group very well.


Thanks, GPB. I was going to try changing a bunch of different things. It did not occur to me to try changing the center shot to the right of the string.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Yes, the Border limbs will sling the same arrow faster, while maintaining tune. It's a property that is rather unique to their limbs - at least, to the degree that they achieve it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have shot HEX limbs for some time now. It is interesting to hear your comment about getting used to it. I had the same issue in reverse when I needed to set up a three under slow bow for 50 and 30 meters. I went to my conventional PSE ProElites, which are actually lighter than my HEX6, and felt overbowed for a few weeks until I got used to them. I do not notice the early loading of HEX limbs, probably because I am used to them, or perhaps, it is just the consequence of the low brace height which provides for a longer draw on the limbs. I definitely notice the smoothness at the end of the draw, though, even going from HEX5 to HEX6.

My brace height and string length are the same as DK for my 70 inch setup. I am getting a consistent 208 with 344 gr ACE shot split finger using a Bernardini Nilo. The details of my HEX6 tests are over on the Border Forum http://www.archery-interchange.net/f127/border-hex6-limb-test-comparison-110385/


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