# New Hamskea Rest - Epsilon



## Im just husky (Jul 11, 2017)

Yes! Finally a dovetail limb driven rest a lot of people want!! (Well for sure I do!)


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## raisins (Jan 21, 2016)

Cool. My Trinity works for my bow and quiver, but if I was in the market for a rest then I'd look at these.


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## Im just husky (Jul 11, 2017)

Another thing that interests me a bit, is no more springs - Just their new rebound dampener.


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

Back to the football clamp?


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## omoore (Apr 6, 2010)

A Blake's Hitch will rid you of that football clamp. Easy to tie and to operate.


MNarrow said:


> Back to the football clamp?


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Wonder if that integrated mount will work on Hoyt bows?


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## Alex Genereux (Nov 16, 2021)

This will be my next rest for sure.


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## co_golfer28 (Nov 21, 2014)

So stoked that they actually introduced the dovetail/integrate mount! Devin and others at Hamskea kept saying that there was a patent with QAD and that they had to respect intellectual property... Those guys had us going! How is the rebound damper vs the spring system? I have only used the spring on my Hybrid Hunter Pro and it has never failed me


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)




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## NCbowhunter85 (Sep 24, 2019)

I’m digging this rest..A LOT


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

Yes, this looks awesome!!


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## Im just husky (Jul 11, 2017)

co_golfer28 said:


> Hamskea kept saying that there was a patent with QAD


I had also heard this and continue to hear this. I am not sure how this is a thing and people more informed than me will know. How can QAD hold the patent on the cutouts of the bow? If it is I.P. from QAD, does the bow manufactures have to pay to cut it into their bow? Do the other rest companies (besides QAD clearly) have to pay royalties if they build a rest that will fit on "their dovetail" grooves?



co_golfer28 said:


> How is the rebound damper vs the spring system? I have only used the spring on my Hybrid Hunter Pro and it has never failed me


My experience, is that I have had springs stretch and bend before, so understand how there could be something better. I put the Primer on my wife's bow and it seems to work great, and probably would for other limb driven rests like Trophy Taker or Vapor Trails. One concern I had though, is how effective is it if I have that on my bow and hunt in sub freezing temp's? Rubber gets very hardened and stiff in the cold, so does it lose it's purpose when it is in those conditions? Maybe not a concern.


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## co_golfer28 (Nov 21, 2014)

Im just husky said:


> I had also heard this and continue to hear this. I am not sure how this is a thing and people more informed than me will know. How can QAD hold the patent on the cutouts of the bow? If it is I.P. from QAD, does the bow manufactures have to pay to cut it into their bow? Do the other rest companies (besides QAD clearly) have to pay royalties if they build a rest that will fit on "their dovetail" grooves?
> 
> 
> 
> My experience, is that I have had springs stretch and bend before, so understand how there could be something better. I put the Primer on my wife's bow and it seems to work great, and probably would for other limb driven rests like Trophy Taker or Vapor Trails. One concern I had though, is how effective is it if I have that on my bow and hunt in sub freezing temp's? Rubber gets very hardened and stiff in the cold, so does it lose it's purpose when it is in those conditions? Maybe not a concern.


That is my concern! Rubber can be a fickle material depending on temp so I will be curious to see how that reacts... I assume it'll be fine, but maybe we can choose to run a spring instead? Also, looks like the dovetail mount doesn't fit any of the standard dovetail rails on the current bows... Kind of sucks and obviously there was something there with QAD not allowing them to use the the current standard size/gap of the dovetail rail? I can't imagine Hamskea would have come out with a rest that integrates to a dovetail but is not conducive to fitting the current bow models? I'm curious to hear which manufactures will be providing these "tapped/threaded" holes on their risers to allow for hamskeas dovetail bracket.... Also! Option to switch to top limb and bottom limb? Option to convert to a cable driven rest (not sure why people would do that .... KIDDING FOLKS). Such cool stuff!

Regardless, this thing looks awesome and has a ton of redesign! It's cool that Hamskea listened to the users and tried to accommodate everything


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## amfrench (Sep 15, 2015)

This looked awesome until i saw that the dovetail mount is a different thing than the integrate mount already on bows. They can't even say which bows will have the holes to allow that mount to be attached because they're not out yet. I mean I get that there are probably patent issues with QAD, but still not super convenient. If it just mounted to the integrate dovetail, I would already be pre-ordering one.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

Im just husky said:


> Another thing that interests me a bit, is no more springs - Just their new rebound dampener.


Correct. We have upgraded the rest so that it will come with the new Rebound Dampener.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

centershot said:


> Wonder if that integrated mount will work on Hoyt bows?


The Epsilon will not mount onto the Integrate Dovetail. For the Hoyt Bows, you will need to use the Universal Bracket.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

co_golfer28 said:


> So stoked that they actually introduced the dovetail/integrate mount! Devin and others at Hamskea kept saying that there was a patent with QAD and that they had to respect intellectual property... Those guys had us going! How is the rebound damper vs the spring system? I have only used the spring on my Hybrid Hunter Pro and it has never failed me


The Epsilon does WILL NOT mount to the Integrate Dovetail. The Integrate system is patented technology and we do wish to respect their intellectual property. The C.O.R. Interface is a new technology and there will be some new bows coming out with two holes drilled into the back of the riser for the interface to attach to.


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

co_golfer28 said:


> That is my concern! Rubber can be a fickle material depending on temp so I will be curious to see how that reacts... I assume it'll be fine, but maybe we can choose to run a spring instead? Also, looks like the dovetail mount doesn't fit any of the standard dovetail rails on the current bows... Kind of sucks and obviously there was something there with QAD not allowing them to use the the current standard size/gap of the dovetail rail? I can't imagine Hamskea would have come out with a rest that integrates to a dovetail but is not conducive to fitting the current bow models? I'm curious to hear which manufactures will be providing these "tapped/threaded" holes on their risers to allow for hamskeas dovetail bracket.... Also! Option to switch to top limb and bottom limb? Option to convert to a cable driven rest (not sure why people would do that .... KIDDING FOLKS). Such cool stuff!
> 
> Regardless, this thing looks awesome and has a ton of redesign! It's cool that Hamskea listened to the users and tried to accommodate everything


My suspicion is QAD gave the rights for bow manufacturers for free or even paid to have the rail on the bow, then assumed they could fleece other rest manufacturers to pay fees to them to use a "standard" that's already on many bows out there. Because that didn't happen I thing QAD overplayed their hand and asked too much.

The other option is people at QAD are assholes who know they're making sub par rest and thought this is a way to force their overpriced garbage on everyone.


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## Im just husky (Jul 11, 2017)

Oh boy! This can NOT be stressed enough - Bummed about this to say the least  Need to wait for upcoming versions in order to mount the bracket for the COR dovetail.



devinhal said:


> *The Epsilon will not mount onto the Integrate Dovetail. For the Hoyt Bows, you will need to use the Universal Bracket.*


*Either way I am tremendously excited for the new profile of this rest.*


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## amfrench (Sep 15, 2015)

I feel like this is really unfortunate timing. Almost all of the 2022 bows that everyone is excited for have already dropped and none of them work with this new mounting system.


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

devinhal said:


> The Epsilon does WILL NOT mount to the Integrate Dovetail. The Integrate system is patented technology and we do wish to respect their intellectual property. The C.O.R. Interface is a new technology and there will be some new bows coming out with two holes drilled into the back of the riser for the interface to attach to.


I know you probably can't say anything but how close am I about QAD thinking they could sell you the IP rights? 

Mathews mount looks sleek enough but the blade doesn't seem to sit more than 1/4" further forward than on Trinity in Lancaster review. Does the drill and tap rail pull it closer?


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## 1220CDR (Apr 11, 2021)

Looks like my future new rest. Sweet!


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

raisins said:


> Cool. My Trinity works for my bow and quiver, but if I was in the market for a rest then I'd look at these.


same here... not switching my trinity, but in the future, i assume i will try this rest.... maybe, i also may just stick with what i have full confidence in... arrow rest weight really isn't a thing to me, that's one of the reasons i like the mach 1 so much, it starts light enough i don't need to worry about the accessories, it will be light enough regardless.... some weight is worth carrying, my trinity fits into that for sure


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## Carl (Feb 5, 2003)

devinhal said:


> The Epsilon does WILL NOT mount to the Integrate Dovetail. The Integrate system is patented technology and we do wish to respect their intellectual property. The C.O.R. Interface is a new technology and there will be some new bows coming out with two holes drilled into the back of the riser for the interface to attach to.


Makes me wonder if PSE is going to be using the core interface...most of the other 2022 bows are out already.
Looks like a great rest... I want one!
What is going to be the suggested retail price foe the new rest?


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

amfrench said:


> I feel like this is really unfortunate timing. Almost all of the 2022 bows that everyone is excited for have already dropped and none of them work with this new mounting system.


This rest will mount onto any of the bows out there as is. If you decided you want to later get a bow that has the two holes on the back of the riser and use just the C.O.R. interface, then you can still do so. We wanted to make sure this rest was compatible with bow from the past and future.


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## Longbow_7 (Aug 29, 2008)

Can I retrofit an older hamskea with the rebound dampener and get rid of the spring? I just had the spring break last weekend on a hunt.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

smau990 said:


> I know you probably can't say anything but how close am I about QAD thinking they could sell you the IP rights?
> 
> Mathews mount looks sleek enough but the blade doesn't seem to sit more than 1/4" further forward than on Trinity in Lancaster review. Does the drill and tap rail pull it closer?


When you use the C.O.R. interface that bolts onto the face of the riser, the rest gets much closer to the riser and puts the launcher over the riser shelf.


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

devinhal said:


> This rest will mount onto any of the bows out there as is. If you decided you want to later get a bow that has the two holes on the back of the riser and use just the C.O.R. interface, then you can still do so. We wanted to make sure this rest was compatible with bow from the past and future.


thanks again Devin for all your insight. What's the MSRP? Looks like you can order 1/1 but is there an expected shipping date?


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## Twstewart (Jan 29, 2020)

Ok so i have a mathews traverse. Please correct me if im wrong.

To mount this rest, there is a mounting bracket that screws into the berger hole, and has a male dovetail which will be in-line with the riser.
Then the female dovetail of the rest can be mounted to this male dovetail bracket?


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

Longbow_7 said:


> Can I retrofit an older hamskea with the rebound dampener and get rid of the spring? I just had the spring break last weekend on a hunt.


You can order the Rebound Dampener Conversion Kit off of our website.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

bojangles808 said:


> thanks again Devin for all your insight. What's the MSRP? Looks like you can order 1/1 but is there an expected shipping date?


MAP will be $249.99. We will be shipping them to dealers who pre ordered right after the first of the year. You can put your order in with your dealer and get your name on the list sooner that way.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

Twstewart said:


> Ok so i have a mathews traverse. Please correct me if im wrong.
> 
> To mount this rest, there is a mounting bracket that screws into the berger hole, and has a male dovetail which will be in-line with the riser.
> Then the female dovetail of the rest can be mounted to this male dovetail bracket?


You got it. The Universal Bracket will reach around the riser from the berger hole and the rest will attach to the C.O.R. dovetail. This will keep everything very low profile and will allow you to push your quivers in closer to the bow.


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## dpaydon (Apr 9, 2021)

I see they are using the limb cord attachment on the Mathews in the Lancaster review. I thought for the past parallel Mathews limbs you're supposed to attach it 2-3 inches up the limb? I wonder if something changed or if Lancaster just did it for looks?


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## Mdawgpound91 (Aug 24, 2019)

co_golfer28 said:


> That is my concern! Rubber can be a fickle material depending on temp so I will be curious to see how that reacts... I assume it'll be fine, but maybe we can choose to run a spring instead? Also, looks like the dovetail mount doesn't fit any of the standard dovetail rails on the current bows... Kind of sucks and obviously there was something there with QAD not allowing them to use the the current standard size/gap of the dovetail rail? I can't imagine Hamskea would have come out with a rest that integrates to a dovetail but is not conducive to fitting the current bow models? I'm curious to hear which manufactures will be providing these "tapped/threaded" holes on their risers to allow for hamskeas dovetail bracket.... Also! Option to switch to top limb and bottom limb? Option to convert to a cable driven rest (not sure why people would do that .... KIDDING FOLKS). Such cool stuff!
> 
> Regardless, this thing looks awesome and has a ton of redesign! It's cool that Hamskea listened to the users and tried to accommodate everything


You can just buy the spring kit on their website, just like you can buy the teardrop kit for the trinity on their website.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Whats the weight difference between this using the conventional mount and the tritney?


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## Longbow_7 (Aug 29, 2008)

devinhal said:


> You can order the Rebound Dampener Conversion Kit off of our website.


Do I need the whole kit if I don't need the cord or the limb pad? Could I just use the rubber dampener piece?


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Even though my Trinity has been flawless I will most likely order one. I always had one bow with limbdriven and one cable driven but from here on I will be going all limbdriven. This rest looks perfect.


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## E. Johnson (Jan 17, 2009)

dpaydon said:


> I see they are using the limb cord attachment on the Mathews in the Lancaster review. I thought for the past parallel Mathews limbs you're supposed to attach it 2-3 inches up the limb? I wonder if something changed or if Lancaster just did it for looks?


I didn't know this and would like to know as well. I have a X33 on the way and ordered the limb cord attachment bracket for it.


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## amfrench (Sep 15, 2015)

devinhal said:


> This rest will mount onto any of the bows out there as is. If you decided you want to later get a bow that has the two holes on the back of the riser and use just the C.O.R. interface, then you can still do so. We wanted to make sure this rest was compatible with bow from the past and future.


That part I understand. It is undeniably going to be a very good rest. I also really do appreciate the variety of mounting options. I'm sure I will get one eventually. I just personally don't see a reason to upgrade from my Trinity until I can mount a Hamskea rest to a dovetail. And with the bows of this year so far, it doesn't seem like that will be this year for me.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

Take. My. Money!!!!


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## maxxis88 (Apr 3, 2010)

I asked on Instagram and this was their response, I’m sure it’s a nice rest though


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

TangoGorilla said:


> Whats the weight difference between this using the conventional mount and the tritney?


Here are some weights. 
Trinity Hunter- 5.4 oz
Epsilon with Universal Bracket- 5.1 oz
Epsilon with C.O.R. interface- 4.0 oz


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

Longbow_7 said:


> Do I need the whole kit if I don't need the cord or the limb pad? Could I just use the rubber dampener piece?


You can order just the Rebound Dampener and Large Tear Drop Lever Arm. 





Rebound Dampener | Hamskeaarchery







www.hamskeaarchery.com









Large Tear Drop Lever Arm | Hamskeaarchery







www.hamskeaarchery.com


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## norcalmx391 (Nov 14, 2021)

devinhal said:


> The Epsilon will not mount onto the Integrate Dovetail. For the Hoyt Bows, you will need to use the Universal Bracket.


You guys launch a new product without even a whisper on your own website…lol.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

devinhal said:


> Here are some weights.
> Trinity Hunter- 5.4 oz
> Epsilon with Universal Bracket- 5.1 oz
> Epsilon with C.O.R. interface- 4.0 oz


So for my current bow, it is basicly nothing, but a new bow about 1.4 oz ( assuming its drilled and tapped)

For a new bow I would happily spend the extra $50 to lose 1.4 oz


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

For your c


TangoGorilla said:


> So for my current bow, it is basicly nothing, but a new bow about 1.4 oz ( assuming its drilled and tapped)
> 
> For a new bow I would happily spend the extra $50 to lose 1.4 oz


For your current bow, it will be a lot smaller and will save a little weight. Plus it will allow you to push your quiver even closer to the bow.


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## Jpowell0207 (Nov 21, 2019)

Im just husky said:


> Yes! Finally a dovetail limb driven rest a lot of people want!! (Well for sure I do!)


It is but it isnt. Their dovetail requires a bracket they have started working with bow manufacturers on. Checkout Lancasters review on it


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## sapper1 (Oct 3, 2003)

I got rid of the spring on my Hybrid Hunter pro so it is nice to see this one not having a spring at ll. That way I don't have buy a part to get rid of it. I am not concerned about the ability of the rest to connect to the integrate rails as I really have no plans to use that. This is the first thing released this year that I might actually buy.


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## nickam9 (Jan 10, 2020)

I’m most excited that Hamskea modified the containment bracket to accommodate guys like me who kept getting the back of his bow hand hit at the shot. That was the only reason I sold my trinity. I’ll be going back to Hamskea with the Epsilon. Excited about this rest. Has all the features everyone has been asking for. The dovetail workaround is smart. Wonder which will be the first bows with the COR mounting holes.


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## amfrench (Sep 15, 2015)

As much as I think it's not exactly what I was hoping for, I am very likely going to order one because I need a new rest and I can wait a couple of weeks. It still looks like an improvement on an already excellent rest system.


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## TexasCanesFan (Jun 23, 2005)

Super nice rest. Interested to see what bows will end up being able to accommodate the COR attachment in the future.


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## omoore (Apr 6, 2010)

I agree with you on this. I admittedly know nothing about patents, but the connection method doesn't seem unique enough to warrant a patent. That is merely my opinion and not the opinion of an informed engineer or attorney or whatever. Maybe the total collection of unique features warrants a patent on even the attachment method, but the dovetail is a well-dated concept. 

I'm 99.9% sold on this rest. Would be full 100% if patent issues hadn't blocked a direct integrate attachment. 



Im just husky said:


> I had also heard this and continue to hear this. I am not sure how this is a thing and people more informed than me will know. How can QAD hold the patent on the cutouts of the bow? If it is I.P. from QAD, does the bow manufactures have to pay to cut it into their bow? Do the other rest companies (besides QAD clearly) have to pay royalties if they build a rest that will fit on "their dovetail" grooves?
> 
> 
> 
> My experience, is that I have had springs stretch and bend before, so understand how there could be something better. I put the Primer on my wife's bow and it seems to work great, and probably would for other limb driven rests like Trophy Taker or Vapor Trails. One concern I had though, is how effective is it if I have that on my bow and hunt in sub freezing temp's? Rubber gets very hardened and stiff in the cold, so does it lose it's purpose when it is in those conditions? Maybe not a concern.


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## MartyMontana (Jun 23, 2017)

looks like a nice smaller version of the Trinity, but it is so disappointing that it won't directly mate to a Mathews or Hoyt dovetail.


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## Elkhunter8228 (Apr 26, 2019)

bojangles808 said:


> thanks again Devin for all your insight. What's the MSRP? Looks like you can order 1/1 but is there an expected shipping date?


It is $249


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

devinhal said:


> For your c
> 
> For your current bow, it will be a lot smaller and will save a little weight. Plus it will allow you to push your quiver even closer to the bow.


Nice job on the new rest! I will be getting one ASAP for my new Mathews.
Couple of questions:
Does the hammer arm fit this rest?
Can you use the g-flex launcher blade instead of the new stock blade?


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## ThatsmeKB (Apr 14, 2021)

So do i buy the trinity plus the dampener kit. Im at about the same price as this little guy. Yup. Ill be purchasing one for sure!


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## Elkhunter8228 (Apr 26, 2019)

This will be my new rest for my Inline5! Already spoke to my dealer and Lancaster Archery. Lancaster is saying it will ship early Jan '22. My dealer is setting one aside for me.


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## norcalmx391 (Nov 14, 2021)

Are any other colors going to be available? If so, when?


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

Judnich said:


> looks like a nice smaller version of the Trinity, but it is so disappointing that it won't directly mate to a Mathews or Hoyt dovetail.


That dovetail might be short lived anyways.. two non-patented holes rear of the riser, mount whatever rail you like


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## Hecz1234 (Oct 27, 2020)

Definitely ready for this!


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

Predator said:


> Nice job on the new rest! I will be getting one ASAP for my new Mathews.
> Couple of questions:
> Does the hammer arm fit this rest?
> Can you use the g-flex launcher blade instead of the new stock blade?


 The Hammer Lever Arm will fit this rest and there will also be a Target Conversion Kit.


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## Twstewart (Jan 29, 2020)

I'm having trouble understanding how this works. 

So does the same QAD Integrate rest fit on both Hoyt and Mathews dovetail risers? Or do you need to get different rests for each brand.

Are Hoyt and mathews dovetail risers machined the same?

I dont see why QAD could be the only company allowed to make a rest that fits directly to these risers, also seems kinda silly for the bow companies to limit themselves to QAD knowing brands like Hamskea make great products too and would release a rest to fit these risers (if allowed of course).


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## E. Johnson (Jan 17, 2009)

Predator said:


> Nice job on the new rest! I will be getting one ASAP for my new Mathews.
> Couple of questions:
> Does the hammer arm fit this rest?
> Can you use the g-flex launcher blade instead of the new stock blade?


Where do you have your cord tied to the limb on your X33? Reading the Hamskea bracket made for Mathews limb attachment is to far out on the limb tip for the timing to be correct.


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## Letsgopens (Sep 15, 2013)

Last I checked warranty be damned anybody can drill and tap aluminum to mount the dovetail


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## _paradox_ (Aug 15, 2016)

Twstewart said:


> I'm having trouble understanding how this works.
> 
> So does the same QAD Integrate rest fit on both Hoyt and Mathews dovetail risers? Or do you need to get different rests for each brand.
> 
> ...


QAD patented the integrate feature on risers, manufacturers have to sign an agreement to use it. Other companies can't use it as a mounting feature unless QAD lets them.


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## Buckhorn70 (Dec 5, 2004)

I know SS screws are nice for possible corrosion.

I would gladly take black screws/hardware to reduce shine in hunting scenarios, especially out in a full sun setting. Hunting open prairie country in the full sun will definitely create a shiny reflection.

Anyway the rest looks really nice! I like it.


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## MartyMontana (Jun 23, 2017)

smau990 said:


> That dovetail might be short lived anyways.. two non-patented holes rear of the riser, mount whatever rail you like


Possible, but I think the Dovetail is a Great idea - mounted super close on the riser. The two hole add one Hamskea Dovetail thingy tries to do the same thing, but you got 2 extra holes in the riser and it isn't as close as the others. Not sure how many manufacturers are going to go for that. Just a bummer that archery can't have a universal mounting system like picatinny was intended to be.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Judnich said:


> Possible, but I think the Dovetail is a Great idea - mounted super close on the riser. The two hole add one Hamskea Dovetail thingy tries to do the same thing, but you got 2 extra holes in the riser and it isn't as close as the others. Not sure how many manufacturers are going to go for that. Just a bummer that archery can't have a universal mounting system like picatinny was intended to be.


 A couple of things

1 m1913 rail was built per request of the us military, not a private company.

2 it was 1st adopted in 1993. So even if it was patented, that has since expired.

Honestly drilling and taping 2 holes is not even an extra tool change on a cnc mill. Cutting a dove tail is a tool change. So drilling the holes will be dramatically faster. Tool changes are the largest bottle neck in optimization. That is assuming it is using an existing drill/tap already used for the riser. If not, I really have to ask the engineers... what were they thinking


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

You guys busting on QAD for obtaining a patent on technology they came up with clearly don’t understand how business works.

Nice rest btw.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

shootstraight said:


> You guys busting on QAD for obtaining a patent on technology they came up with clearly don’t understand how business works.
> 
> Nice rest btw.


It is a use patent, they really didn't come up with anything


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

TangoGorilla said:


> It is a use patent, they really didn't come up with anything


Their patent would be on the rest not a rail that’s added on.


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## Twstewart (Jan 29, 2020)

shootstraight said:


> Their patent would be on the rest not a rail that’s added on.


so noone can make a rest to fit on the risers but QAD? Because QAD gave them the idea of machining the male dovetail?


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## norcalmx391 (Nov 14, 2021)

Judnich said:


> Possible, but I think the Dovetail is a Great idea - mounted super close on the riser. The two hole add one Hamskea Dovetail thingy tries to do the same thing, but you got 2 extra holes in the riser and it isn't as close as the others. Not sure how many manufacturers are going to go for that. Just a bummer that archery can't have a universal mounting system like picatinny was intended to be.


…seriously. As a somewhat noob…the archery industry is kind of a joke. Clearly the companies involved are all greedy and thinking very short sighted. There should be a unanimous mounting standard for all. Could you imagine if every rifle
upper had a different mounting system for sights/scopes? 

The mess the archery industry has created with all their “proprietary” mounting solutions will turn off many new people to archery. Guaranteed.


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

Twstewart said:


> so noone can make a rest to fit on the risers but QAD? Because QAD gave them the idea of machining the male dovetail?


They can but just like all these companies using binary cams someone (Darton I believe) is getting royalties to use them. If Hamskea chooses to they could make a dovetail rest but would have to pay QAD to use it.


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

norcalmx391 said:


> …seriously. As a somewhat noob…the archery industry is kind of a joke. Clearly the companies involved are all greedy and thinking very short sighted. There should be a unanimous mounting standard for all. Could you imagine if every rifle
> upper had a different mounting system for sights/scopes?
> 
> The mess the archery industry has created with all their “proprietary” mounting solutions will turn off many new people to archery. Guaranteed.


It’s not the archery industry, it’s every industry!


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## LoneAggie (Jan 10, 2005)

shootstraight said:


> It’s not the archery industry, it’s every industry!


Patents and what they do are topics 99% of people don't understand. That in and of itself is understandable as that world is built to be vague and confusing on purpose.

If you come up with a unique way to do something as a company you should and better patent it, just good business sense.

Really I have to commend QAD for making it happen, they actually got arguably one of if not the largest bow manufacturers on the planet to agree to use a proprietary setup. In my mind it was somewhat short sighted by Mathews, but I think it may jive with their long term goals. Not just bows, but everything that goes on the bow they will oversee or have a partnership for. This is much the approach Apple has taken, and its hard to argue with.


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## Fliegender (Jun 9, 2021)

raisins said:


> Cool. My Trinity works for my bow and quiver, but if I was in the market for a rest then I'd look at these.


Looks great!


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## Colin Dakers (Dec 15, 2021)

_paradox_ said:


> QAD patented the integrate feature on risers, manufacturers have to sign an agreement to use it. Other companies can't use it as a mounting feature unless QAD lets them.


Thinking that it wouldn’t be so difficult to machine a small adapter plate to enable it to be directly mounted to the QAD integrate dovetail…for personal use only!


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

norcalmx391 said:


> …seriously. As a somewhat noob…the archery industry is kind of a joke. Clearly the companies involved are all greedy and thinking very short sighted. There should be a unanimous mounting standard for all. Could you imagine if every rifle
> upper had a different mounting system for sights/scopes?
> 
> The mess the archery industry has created with all their “proprietary” mounting solutions will turn off many new people to archery. Guaranteed.


Actually there is an issue with rifle scope bases as well. The holes on the top of the action for a Remington 700 aren't spaced the same as a Savage or Tikka. That is why sporting good stores typically have a wall of different scope bases. What we are trying to do with this rest is have a standard for holes on the back of the risers that aren't patented. Having the spacing for the two holes on the back of the riser as a new standard(just like the berger hole) would open up all rest manufacturers to come up with their own way of attaching onto this location.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Would you pick this rest over the QAD integrate rest? How much value do you put into that integrate mount?


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## amfrench (Sep 15, 2015)

I would 100% choose this over the QAD. I would, and have chosen, the Trinity over the Integrate. That said, having a Hamskea capable of mounting to the integrate dovetail would be ideal.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

jo3st3 said:


> Would you pick this rest over the QAD integrate rest? How much value do you put into that integrate mount?


Without question. No comparison when it comes to quality. Integrate is nice but FAR more important to have the best rest on the market mounted to my bows. And this new rest achieves essentially the same thing as integrate so it becomes a bit of a moot point.


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## favoriteflannel (Apr 21, 2019)

Personally like to play with forward and backward adjustment to help with tuning so integrate portion of it means nothing to me.

That being said I do appreciate the slimmer profile, cut away where it hit my hand in the past, and the adjustable containment options. Will be a nice pickup in the future for me.


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## bakin7005 (Dec 9, 2019)

For Devin......few questions......what does "Mathews Approved" mean and why would I need/want the special Mathews bracket when the universal bracket would work fine on my V3X?
What's the difference between the universal bracket vs the Mathes bracket. Shouldn't matter if it won't integrate with the Mathews dovetail anyway.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Total Insanity (Apr 20, 2012)

Total Buzz Kill that it doesn't attached to the dovetail directly BUT it looks as if the Mathews mount allows to be flush to the back of the riser, level to the riser. Is is because they didn't want to be forced to pay QAD? or they absolutely can't? 

Bowtech has their own dovetail but they also own RipCord to attached their rest to the CP28.


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## Poe Outdoors (Apr 24, 2021)

Hamskea is obviously listening. 👍


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Total Insanity said:


> . Is is because they didn't want to be forced to pay QAD? or they absolutely can't?


We will never know. Both are just as likely. 

There are 3 advantages i see from an archers stand point to a dovetail rest.

1 small weight savings
2 ability to mount the quiver closer to the riser 
3 easy of installation. A dovetail is a self alining connection ( also means if the bow machining is off you have a real problem)

I am sure there is many benefits on rest/bow manufacturers.


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## Jonathan3220 (Jan 27, 2013)

Am i the only one that sees this rest as having potential to be mounted on almost any bow inline? If the back of your riser is straight why not drill and tap two holes and add their bracket. Now your old bow has a inline rest! Or am I missing something??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

bakin7005 said:


> For Devin......few questions......what does "Mathews Approved" mean and why would I need/want the special Mathews bracket when the universal bracket would work fine on my V3X?
> What's the difference between the universal bracket vs the Mathes bracket. Shouldn't matter if it won't integrate with the Mathews dovetail anyway.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


We worked with Mathews to make sure the bracket would work with their 2020 or newer bows and put the rest right at 13/16" centershot out of the package. The benefit you get with the Mathews specific bracket is that it will hold the rest tight to the bow in a sleeker design while eliminating the need for the set screw that could leave a mark on your riser. If you use the Universal Bracket, then it will fit all bow models, but will require the use of a set screw to keep it from rotating over time.


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## Jimmy_Wallhanger (Nov 30, 2020)

smau990 said:


> My suspicion is QAD gave the rights for bow manufacturers for free or even paid to have the rail on the bow, then assumed they could fleece other rest manufacturers to pay fees to them to use a "standard" that's already on many bows out there. Because that didn't happen I thing QAD overplayed their hand and asked too much.
> 
> *The other option is people at QAD are assholes who know they're making sub par rest and thought this is a way to force their overpriced garbage on everyone.*


I agree. QAD is straight garbage


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## wraith69 (Feb 20, 2008)

Finally added the one feature I wanted in the micro adjust model… clicks for movement… the integrate is nice but the clicks will make a great rest even better in my opinion


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

E. Johnson said:


> Where do you have your cord tied to the limb on your X33? Reading the Hamskea bracket made for Mathews limb attachment is to far out on the limb tip for the timing to be correct.


See attached pics. You do not want to use a bracket. Tie it in like I did wherever it works and it works well as shown.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Oh, and here’s another reason to go with the new rest in Mathews bows. The set screw holes on Trinity and others line up with nothing but air on the Mathews bows. Had to put a bolt in a hole and secure it to the riser. Had to do the same thing with VXR a couple years ago. No such concern with the new rest.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Mine is already on order BTW. Wish I could get it sooner.


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## Elkhunter8228 (Apr 26, 2019)

Predator said:


> Mine is already on order BTW. Wish I could get it sooner.


Yep! Same here! Let's go


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## E. Johnson (Jan 17, 2009)

Predator said:


> See attached pics. You do not want to use a bracket. Tie it in like I did wherever it works and it works well as shown.
> 
> View attachment 7523572
> View attachment 7523573


Thank you Pred
Guess I'll be returning the bracket.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

Predator said:


> Oh, and here’s another reason to go with the new rest in Mathews bows. The set screw holes on Trinity and others line up with nothing but air on the Mathews bows. Had to put a bolt in a hole and secure it to the riser. Had to do the same thing with VXR a couple years ago. No such concern with the new rest.
> 
> View attachment 7523575
> View attachment 7523576


This was actually updated a couple years ago. There is now a third hole for the set screw that lines up with the riser no problem.


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## satchamo (May 6, 2006)

nickam9 said:


> I’m most excited that Hamskea modified the containment bracket to accommodate guys like me who kept getting the back of his bow hand hit at the shot. That was the only reason I sold my trinity. I’ll be going back to Hamskea with the Epsilon. Excited about this rest. Has all the features everyone has been asking for. The dovetail workaround is smart. Wonder which will be the first bows with the COR mounting holes.


I had this same issue but it was only when I was shooting side plates. Went back to the engage then UV grip on my traverse then it went away


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## nickam9 (Jan 10, 2020)

satchamo said:


> I had this same issue but it was only when I was shooting side plates. Went back to the engage then UV grip on my traverse then it went away


I unfortunately had the same problem with those grips too. The UV grip almost fixed it, but it still happened from time to time. I improved my grip since then, so maybe it wouldn't be an issue now. Haven't tested that yet though.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Looks great, love the smaller profile and look. The mount with its multiple parts gives me a bit of trepidation though …


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## Wboutdoors (Nov 27, 2020)

Will this work with an elite enkore? Need the universal mount?


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

The 3 mounting options.


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## Wboutdoors (Nov 27, 2020)

I’ll wait for @AnAverageJack to make a vid review. I know he is a big hamskea homer 😀


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## Wboutdoors (Nov 27, 2020)

Qad hdx sells for around $125 to $150 at the most expensive

this is $250 or slightly less

worth it at twice the cost over qad hdx?


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

For the Hoyt Ventum, can you attach with that COR interface mount? Is that an option? Or do you need the universal mount?


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## amfrench (Sep 15, 2015)

Wboutdoors said:


> Qad hdx sells for around $125 to $150 at the most expensive
> 
> this is $250 or slightly less
> 
> worth it at twice the cost over qad hdx?


For me, this isn't the correct comparison. You can compare the hdx to the Hamskea Primer or the Hybrid hunter pro. This is competing with the QAD Integrate and the MXT both of which are much closer in price to the Epsilon.


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

jo3st3 said:


> For the Hoyt Ventum, can you attach with that COR interface mount? Is that an option? Or do you need the universal mount?


I think manufacturers won't be giving anyone free pass to drill and tap the riser on their own. Seems like good place to wait and see how this mount-war turns out.


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## kjboudreau14 (Nov 11, 2014)

Looks like an awesome rest, ill probably cave.

I really wish the bolt to unlock horizontal adjustment was facing the shooter as opposed to being on the top of the rest. The cable rods always make the allen wrench work difficult. But that is being extremely picky haha. Not a deal breaker.


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## chief razor (Apr 29, 2006)

jo3st3 said:


> For the Hoyt Ventum, can you attach with that COR interface mount? Is that an option? Or do you need the universal mount?


I believe you can do it if you drill and tap your riser. Its going to be tricky with the truss on the Hoyt. Ive got a chill x I may experiment with. Although once you get a rest in hand there may be other modifications that can be made by the end user that could make it work on the existing dovetail.


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## AnAverageJack (Jul 16, 2015)

Wboutdoors said:


> I’ll wait for @AnAverageJack to make a vid review. I know he is a big hamskea homer 😀


I'm a big fan boy for sure! But $250 is steeeeep when their current lineup is already the Bee's Knees for less than $200.


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## hurley1718 (Sep 6, 2007)

I was going to upgrade to a trinity but now I think I will wait and pick up one of these!


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

jo3st3 said:


> For the Hoyt Ventum, can you attach with that COR interface mount? Is that an option? Or do you need the universal mount?


The C.O.R. Mount will require there to be two holes drilled into the riser and only a few bows will be coming from the factory with these holes present. Unfortunately, Hoyt and Mathews will not be on the list of bows......YET.


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

AnAverageJack said:


> I'm a big fan boy for sure! But $250 is steeeeep when their current lineup is already the Bee's Knees for less than $200.


I agree. Unless a person has the knuckle rub issue, The hybrid hunter or trinity will be just fine. I am not dogging the new rest it does look good but not what I hoped for. Still doesnt fit the dove tail. Maybe in a year or two more bow companies will drill and tap for the COR adapter.


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## Poe Outdoors (Apr 24, 2021)

The slot on my Trinity Pro isn’t long enough to accept 2 mounting bolts on my Reign 7. Will that be the case with the slot on the Epsilon?


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## co_golfer28 (Nov 21, 2014)

devinhal said:


> Actually there is an issue with rifle scope bases as well. The holes on the top of the action for a Remington 700 aren't spaced the same as a Savage or Tikka. That is why sporting good stores typically have a wall of different scope bases. What we are trying to do with this rest is have a standard for holes on the back of the risers that aren't patented. Having the spacing for the two holes on the back of the riser as a new standard(just like the berger hole) would open up all rest manufacturers to come up with their own way of attaching onto this location.


A man for the people! Great idea and I commend you guys for doing so… Sucks we all have to wait and see who adopts it but in the mean time I’ll be buying this and using the Mathew’s specific bracket for my V3X29


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## Total Insanity (Apr 20, 2012)

cruizerjoy said:


> I agree. Unless a person has the knuckle rub issue, The hybrid hunter or trinity will be just fine. I am not dogging the new rest it does look good but not what I hoped for. Still doesnt fit the dove tail. Maybe in a year or two more bow companies will drill and tap for the COR adapter.


I have had this issue in the past with most of the Hamskea rests, really glad to see the put that outside edge of the cage at a 45 degree angle. Still bummed about the mounting not directly to the existing dovetail but I guess you can't blame Hamskea for tweaking the mounting options and doing their own...especially since the entire body of the rest since about where the integrate would anyway...except for the slim mounting bracket. It wouldn't surprise me to see Mathews gets the two holes tapped on the V3X sometime in 2022.


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## Buckhorn70 (Dec 5, 2004)

What are the weights of the rest in the 3 mounting modes (including all hardware)……
particularly the Mathews version?


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

Total Insanity said:


> I have had this issue in the past with most of the Hamskea rests, really glad to see the put that outside edge of the cage at a 45 degree angle. Still bummed about the mounting not directly to the existing dovetail but I guess you can't blame Hamskea for tweaking the mounting options and doing their own...especially since the entire body of the rest since about where the integrate would anyway...except for the slim mounting bracket. It wouldn't surprise me to see Mathews gets the two holes tapped on the V3X sometime in 2022.


Yes and I got to give kudos to Hamskea for making it universal so other rest manufacturers can use the COR system in the future without patent costs. They are an all around great company.


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## rootju (Sep 22, 2009)

The only main manufacturer that hasn't released their 2022 bows (outside of the early Levitate launch) is PSE. Maybe theirs is going to come with the dovetail and the 2 holes drilled so someone can choose between the integrate QAD or this Epsilon?


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## Coolarrowkev (May 24, 2020)

im hoping for a new mach 1 with C.O.R.



rootju said:


> The only main manufacturer that hasn't released their 2022 bows (outside of the early Levitate launch) is PSE. Maybe theirs is going to come with the dovetail and the 2 holes drilled so someone can choose between the integrate QAD or this Epsilon?


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## rootju (Sep 22, 2009)

Coolarrowkev said:


> im hoping for a new mach 1 with C.O.R.


Not sure they'll do it with the carbons, but that'd be sweet!


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## Twstewart (Jan 29, 2020)

devinhal said:


> The C.O.R. Mount will require there to be two holes drilled into the riser and only a few bows will be coming from the factory with these holes present. Unfortunately, Hoyt and Mathews will not be on the list of bows......YET.


Any chance that the companies would allow you to take your 2-3 year old bow somewhere and have them drill/tap the holes and still keep the warranty?
I highly doubt it but the answer is no until you ask LOL


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

Twstewart said:


> Any chance that the companies would allow you to take your 2-3 year old bow somewhere and have them drill/tap the holes and still keep the warranty?
> I highly doubt it but the answer is no until you ask LOL


That would be a question to ask the bow companies, but I wouldn't advise it.


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## OZ10 (Jan 19, 2014)

Will it be possible to purchase the new launcher to put on the Trinity ?


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

OZ10 said:


> Will it be possible to purchase the new launcher to put on the Trinity ?


I would imagine it will be available for separate purchase sometime soon. I’m actually planning on stripping it off the rest so I can put on a g-flex blade (which I’ll of course wrap in medical tape as usual) - much better setup than stock blade.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

This rest seems great, but is it worth $250 vs the primer for $130? You lose micro adjust as the primer only has gang adjustments (turning a knob instead of loosening/tightening a screw and moving it), and it's not perfectly behind the riser (but it's close)... and the primer is lighter and pretty darn compact for what it is, and for basically half the price. 

What am I missing here? If your bow requires you to use the universal mount, I'm not sure that it's solving enough of a problem to justify the cost unless I have a Mathews bow running the new low profile quivers. Someone please educate me here because I have to be missing something.


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## kjboudreau14 (Nov 11, 2014)

jo3st3 said:


> This rest seems great, but is it worth $250 vs the primer for $130? You lose micro adjust as the primer only has gang adjustments (turning a knob instead of loosening/tightening a screw and moving it), and it extends maybe 1/2" to the right of the riser, ... but the primer is lighter and pretty darn compact for what it is, and for basically half the price. What am I missing here?


this is strictly opinion but micro adjust doesnt do a whole lot for me. I try to set center shot and tune bows with cable guard, shims, yokes etc.

however it can definitely be nice to really dial in perfect fixed head flight


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## bowtecher82nd (Feb 19, 2008)

Why buy a rest with micro adjust because once its set you never touch it again and its more parts to work loose and rattle..


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## bakin7005 (Dec 9, 2019)

bowtecher82nd said:


> Why buy a rest with micro adjust because once its set you never touch it again and its more parts to work loose and rattle..


Broadhead tuning.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## bowtecher82nd (Feb 19, 2008)

bakin7005 said:


> Broadhead tuning.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


If you bow is tuned right from the start you shouldn't have to retune to shoot broadheads.. I never did


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## TheVikingCO (Sep 13, 2018)

jo3st3 said:


> This rest seems great, but is it worth $250 vs the primer for $130? You lose micro adjust as the primer only has gang adjustments (turning a knob instead of loosening/tightening a screw and moving it), and it's not perfectly behind the riser (but it's close)... and the primer is lighter and pretty darn compact for what it is, and for basically half the price.
> 
> What am I missing here? If your bow requires you to use the universal mount, I'm not sure that it's solving enough of a problem to justify the cost unless I have a Mathews bow running the new low profile quivers. Someone please educate me here because I have to be missing something.


To each their own.

I’ve always shot a Hamskea. Last years was the Trinity, before that the Hybrid Hunter. 

I had my Hybrid on a VXR 31.5. I used the Mathews Q-Lite quiver and had to buy a spacer kit to bump it out so my arrows didn’t hit the rest. 

This year I shot a Ventum 33 with the Trinity and used a Tight Spot. I had to adjust it out so it wouldn’t hit. When Black Gold released their picatinny mount, I swapped out my side from side mount to the front picatinny mount. That allowed me to move my quiver WAY in and the bow felt and balanced way better. Only thing holding back was the rest. 

I just picked up a Mathews V3X 33 and have a Spot Hogg 2 pin to utilize the new sight mount. 

So for me, this new rest excites me. It has the Mathews mount, I’ll be able to snug whatever quiver I use up super tight to the riser and not have a rest in my way, and still had micro adjust. 

I won’t have a rest without micro adjust. If your bareshaft and/or broadhead tune, you can easily super dial everything in. I also play with multiple arrow setups, so I am adjusting and utilizing it often. 

For me it’s great.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

TheVikingCO said:


> To each their own.
> 
> I’ve always shot a Hamskea. Last years was the Trinity, before that the Hybrid Hunter.
> 
> ...


Yeah, in your case, this is the perfect solution. I guess I'm wondering for myself if I'm using a Hoyt Ventum and the universal mount, if I'm really gaining much over their primer model. The trinity is quite large, so it's easy to see how that might be an issue, but the primer is pretty slim as it is.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

co_golfer28 said:


> I'm curious to hear which manufactures will be providing these "tapped/threaded" holes on their risers to allow for hamskeas dovetail bracket....


Bet their R&D are scratching their heads whether to or not....Couple small tapped holes may not seem all that much, but could snap a riser.... Some in here never heard of riser breaking, but they did....I know PSE had a target bow that snapped in half. Friend had one, broke twice. After the second time PSE gave him a new different bow......


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

SonnyThomas said:


> Bet their R&D are scratching their heads whether to or not....Couple small tapped holes may not seem all that much, but could snap a riser.... Some in here never heard of riser breaking, but they did....I know PSE had a target bow that snapped in half. Friend had one, broke twice. After the second time PSE gave him a new different bow......


Well, considering pretty much everyone has launched 2022 stuff but PSE, minus the levitate, I’m going with PSE being the first adopter. Unless Hamskea went straight rogue and created a solution without consulting with any bow manufacturer, but I doubt it. 

What will be interesting is what happens next year for the 2023 lines. With an industry that sometimes feels like they’ve done everything they can do to a bow, getting people excited to upgrade over two riser holes sounds like a plan.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

Meh. Solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

jo3st3 said:


> What am I missing here?


the trinity and epsilon have a support bar along the bottom that protects the launcher arm mechanism. you can bang it/drop it/fall on it and the launcher arm will never get bent or dinged because its protected by that support. primer and pretty much all other rests dont have that


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

I was so close to giving up and getting QAD IMX on the V3X just because Trinity is so big and heavy. I was excited about clicked micro adjust, not so much about cable operation. The containment system is exactly what I want though, I've been contemplating if I should cut half of the cage off from Trinity. Anyways, I have Epsilon now preordered.

I wonder if the coated metal blade on *ε* will be silent enough not to have to use felt sticker on it.


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## Taylor_stone (Oct 15, 2015)

It really is unfortunate there isn’t a “universal” mounting option for rests. I mean I understand the business aspect of it and respect that but it would be nice from the archer side of the fence if all these companies were on board. Never tried a Hamskea before but hoping to pick one of these up and give it a go.


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor_stone said:


> It really is unfortunate there isn’t a “universal” mounting option for rests. I mean I understand the business aspect of it and respect that but it would be nice from the archer side of the fence if all these companies were on board. Never tried a Hamskea before but hoping to pick one of these up and give it a go.


Well the Berger hole is the universal mounting option. Just that by todays engineering standards it's kind of a crude hack. Just put a Big Muthafugin Bolt and it still needs either another BMB or a set screw that gnaws into the riser or it will tilt from slightest bump.

QAD's way of dealing with Integrate™ dovetail is excellent example of company going for short term profit instead of considering what would take industry forward and benefit the customers most. Can't blame them for trying but personally as a customer it's also a reson not to buy QAD products if I can avoid it.


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## chief razor (Apr 29, 2006)

smau990 said:


> Well the Berger hole is the universal mounting option. Just that by todays engineering standards it's kind of a crude hack. Just put a Big Muthafugin Bolt and it still needs either another BMB or a set screw that gnaws into the riser or it will tilt from slightest bump.
> 
> QAD's way of dealing with Integrate™ dovetail is excellent example of company going for short term profit instead of considering what would take industry forward and benefit the customers most. Can't blame them for trying but personally as a customer it's also a reson not to buy QAD products if I can avoid it.


I understand your frustration and dont get me wrong I share it to a degree. On the flip side I understand protecting intellectual property from a business standpoint. But by your logic will you not buy Mathews because others wont be able to use bridgelock? Elite because of SET? Bowtech because of deadlock? Everyone protects something they feel gives them an edge, after it runs its course and patents run out I guess we will see what sticks around and what gets dumped for something better. Sure it’s frustrating but a positive it does drive competition to build a better mousetrap


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bojangles808 said:


> the trinity and epsilon have a support bar along the bottom that protects the launcher arm mechanism. you can bang it/drop it/fall on it and the launcher arm will never get bent or dinged because its protected by that support. primer and pretty much all other rests dont have that


Don't understand that either. Hamskea had the spring to supposedly eliminate the shock that would move the rest. No other drop had this issue........


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

smau990 said:


> *Well the Berger hole is the universal mounting option. Just that by todays engineering standards it's kind of a crude hack.* Just put a Big Muthafugin Bolt and it still needs either another BMB or a set screw that gnaws into the riser or it will tilt from slightest bump.
> 
> QAD's way of dealing with Integrate™ dovetail is excellent example of company going for short term profit instead of considering what would take industry forward and benefit the customers most. Can't blame them for trying but personally as a customer it's also a reson not to buy QAD products if I can avoid it.


21 years I've used the mounting bolt without the aid of the set screw. First thing I do is take out and pitch it. 
Never banged a arrow rest that moved it. 

Like you I can't see the Integrate being benefit..... And the "hit the same spot with the bow torqued" is so much BS.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Same. Never used a set screw on a bow and never had a rest move.


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## godwinmt (Nov 25, 2012)

The only time the berger screw doesn't work well is when the rest is taken off and reinstalled...it's not repeatable, but it doesn't move. That's why olympic recurves still use them.

If the rest is mounted such that the arrow is supported at the center of rotation of the bow in the grip, the effects of torque are minimized on the arrow. This is why if you look at any olympic recurve, they have 2 berger button holes. One is up front which is where the rest is mounted, and the second is spaced exactly over the throat of the grip, which levels the rest and is where the plunger is threaded through. That location over the throat of the grip is very important and is where the plunger and rest make contact with the arrow. Putting it at that location prevents the arrow from moving side to side in relation to your hand when the riser is torqued.











Compounds historically, and most dropaways (vertically oriented QADs being the worst) continually neglect this, with target blades the only rests really capable of supporting an arrow in this area of the bow, with target blades and some of the hamskea target dropaway whaletails about the only rests that can support the arrow at this point.


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## Morefish (Jan 26, 2018)

Here’s a clip from the Hamskea 2022 product guide. They don’t expound much, but it appears Martin, Obsession, and Expedition might be early adopters of the tapped riser to accommodate the C.O.R. interface plate.








Apologies if this has already been covered.


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

Morefish said:


> They don’t expound much, but it appears Martin, Obsession, and Expedition might be early adopters of the tapped riser to accommodate the C.O.R. interface plate.


Three powerhouses of the archery industry!!


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## Morefish (Jan 26, 2018)

MNarrow said:


> Three powerhouses of the archery industry!!


True!! lol


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

SonnyThomas said:


> 21 years I've used the mounting bolt without the aid of the set screw. First thing I do is take out and pitch it.
> Never banged a arrow rest that moved it.
> 
> Like you I can't see the Integrate being benefit..... And the "hit the same spot with the bow torqued" is so much BS.


Not sure what is in the surface combination between mathews riser and hamskea bracket but I can’t put enough force on the bolt with ordinary 4” allen key to prevent it from being easily tilted by hand. I hesitate to try with an extension bar, riser is only aluminum afterall.

Haven’t heard that claim about integrate but I agree that’s a load of BS. Is that about the TRi where they market torque-tuneability as new groundbreaking feature?


----------



## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> Don't understand that either. Hamskea had the spring to supposedly eliminate the shock that would move the rest. No other drop had this issue........


You misunderstood the purpose of the spring, it isn’t to keep the rest from moving. It is to keep the launcher down while the arrow is leaving the bow, which is a problem that every limb driven rest without a spring or something similar in between has. There is high speed footage of a variety of rests on YouTube where you can see the problem. You have to set the spring up to be under good tension at brace for this to work. When the bow fires, the limbs “flutter” they don’t just return to their static brace position immediately. Without a mechanism to absorb that flutter, the arrow launcher on a limb driven rest flutters along with the arrow which can cause contact with the arrow or fletchings sometimes. I wouldn’t shoot a limb driven rest without a spring or something to that effect because of this.

D


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## Sivart (Mar 12, 2004)

dk_ace1 said:


> You misunderstood the purpose of the spring, it isn’t to keep the rest from moving. It is to keep the launcher down while the arrow is leaving the bow, which is a problem that every limb driven rest without a spring or something similar in between has. There is high speed footage of a variety of rests on YouTube where you can see the problem. You have to set the spring up to be under good tension at brace for this to work. When the bow fires, the limbs “flutter” they don’t just return to their static brace position immediately. Without a mechanism to absorb that flutter, the arrow launcher on a limb driven rest flutters along with the arrow which can cause contact with the arrow or fletchings sometimes. I wouldn’t shoot a limb driven rest without a spring or something to that effect because of this.
> 
> D


I agree. This is a concern for me. That spring serves a purpose. I also liked the quick adjustment cord tensioner as well. If you ever get a little slack, you could quickly adjust the cord in the field, without a wrench. 

I like the changes to the frame, and the dovetail type mount. I don't like it not having a spring, or an adjustable cord tensioner. I guess a guy could install their adjustable cord tensioner to this rest?


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## rober2wt (Feb 12, 2017)

Sivart said:


> I agree. This is a concern for me. That spring serves a purpose. I also liked the quick adjustment cord tensioner as well. If you ever get a little slack, you could quickly adjust the cord in the field, without a wrench.
> 
> I like the changes to the frame, and the dovetail type mount. I don't like it not having a spring, or an adjustable cord tensioner. I guess a guy could install their adjustable cord tensioner to this rest?


i believe the rubber dampener is now acting as the spring. the pull cord is woven through it. so there is some stretch as the cord tries to pull strait.

though ive never had issues with the spring. first glance... id trust the spring in cold conditions for hunting over the rubber.


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## Tfranceschi (Jul 5, 2010)

Predator said:


> I would imagine it will be available for separate purchase sometime soon. I’m actually planning on stripping it off the rest so I can put on a g-flex blade (which I’ll of course wrap in medical tape as usual) - much better setup than stock blade.



Predator, would you be willing to show a picture of how you wrap that blade?


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## godwinmt (Nov 25, 2012)

rober2wt said:


> i believe the rubber dampener is now acting as the spring. the pull cord is woven through it. so there is some stretch as the cord tries to pull strait.
> 
> though ive never had issues with the spring. first glance... id trust the spring in cold conditions for hunting over the rubber.


That's my thought as well. There has to be some give in a limb driven setup. AAE puts it in the blade coming down against the shelf or stop. Hamskea puts it on the driving end through the spring or rubber stop which is preferable in my opinion. Much less apt to break blades compared to the earlier AAE pro drops.

The only issue I've seen with the spring is that if you weren't careful when tightening the screw into the lever, it could rotate to the point it would interfere with the body of the rest, and prevent the launcher from raising. Other than that, as long as you followed the directions...pulling the d-braid taught so that the spring stretches about 1/16" at rest, I've never had an issue with the spring.


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## Tfranceschi (Jul 5, 2010)

I have shot a QAD for years without issue, but I am really liking what I see here. I see an Epsilon in my future.


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

chief razor said:


> I understand your frustration and dont get me wrong I share it to a degree. On the flip side I understand protecting intellectual property from a business standpoint. But by your logic will you not buy Mathews because others wont be able to use bridgelock? Elite because of SET? Bowtech because of deadlock? Everyone protects something they feel gives them an edge, after it runs its course and patents run out I guess we will see what sticks around and what gets dumped for something better. Sure it’s frustrating but a positive it does drive competition to build a better mousetrap


That's different. Any of the mentioned innovations don't cause changes to products that I use. I now have the QAD rail on the bow if it's Mathews, Hoyt or PSE. Instead of me having a choise of the rest I have this "best alternative" from Hamskea until the patent runs out on the Integrate™. What happens then? Will QAD hang onto it even if the industry adopts another rail as a standard. Mathew doing bridge lock doesn't affect anyone shooting Hoyt or PSE in any way whatsoever, but if it was Axcel that patented BridgeLock and made a new rail standard no other sight can use. Then made a deal with Hoyt, Mathews, PSE and other "big ones" so when you want to buy a new bow you'd have ugly useless hole on the riser in case you don't want to use Axcel sight. Or if you happen to like Axcel then replace it with whatever brand you don't like. I may or may not pay for the little dovetail in my Mathews riser but it doesn't give me any value unless I give $250 for another company, but if as a result of this let's say in 2-3 years I'm buying another bow in one possible case the dovetail was made open for anyone and I could buy whatever rest with integrated dovetail mount the way QAD made this the likely result is there is no standard, Mathews is still only compatible with QAD but some others might have other options. Then if I want to switch brands I can't keep my rest anymore.

I don't blame QAD for trying to make profit but in the specific case of holding onto the Integrate rail patent the most likely case is making things worse for customers in the long run. Hamskea could've rushed to buy rest of the bow companies so you'd have different patented rail on Elite, Bowtech and Prime and next year one company would struggle to steal one to themselves. Eventually Vapor trail would cave and make a deal with Darton or something.

There's hope the "two threaded holes in the back of the riser" becomes a standard that leaves the choise for the customer but it's still an extra year or two that's going to leave behind soon to be obsolete arrow rests and bows with features that don't add value for the customer unless they pay extra for some other company as well.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> You misunderstood the purpose of the spring, it isn’t to keep the rest from moving. It is to keep the launcher down while the arrow is leaving the bow, which is a problem that every limb driven rest without a spring or something similar in between has. There is high speed footage of a variety of rests on YouTube where you can see the problem. *You have to set the spring up to be under good tension at brace for this to work.* When the bow fires, the limbs “flutter” they don’t just return to their static brace position immediately. Without a mechanism to absorb that flutter, the arrow launcher on a limb driven rest flutters along with the arrow which can cause contact with the arrow or fletchings sometimes. I wouldn’t shoot a limb driven rest without a spring or something to that effect because of this.
> 
> D


What I was told I was told. Again no other drop rest uses a spring or dampening rubber.........

Good tension; Hamskea instructions.
Step 3
Mounting the Limb Pad: Mount the limb pad to the bottom or top limb of the archer’s choice. Attach/wrap the pull-away cord around the limb and pull through the pre-tied loop of the 23 Spectra cord, pull tight to the limb. Loop the cord through the dampening coil spring attached to the oval lever arm on the rest and attach the provided cable clamp. You want to pull the launcher to the down position and* expand the dampening coil spring 1/8”.* The launcher will rise to the correct position when you draw your bow. Tighten the cord clamp around the cord tight so there is no sliding of the cord.

I was been using drop rests since 2007. Probably a dozen different brands and models. Name one and I've more than likely owned it or used it or tested it. I know 2 or 3 brands are no longer made.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

deleted double post


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> You misunderstood the purpose of the spring, it isn’t to keep the rest from moving. It is to keep the launcher down while the arrow is leaving the bow, which is a problem that every limb driven rest without a spring or something similar in between has. There is high speed footage of a variety of rests on YouTube where you can see the problem. You have to set the spring up to be under good tension at brace for this to work. When the bow fires, the limbs “flutter” they don’t just return to their static brace position immediately. Without a mechanism to absorb that flutter, the arrow launcher on a limb driven rest flutters along with the arrow which can cause contact with the arrow or fletchings sometimes. I wouldn’t shoot a limb driven rest without a spring or something to that effect because of this.
> 
> D


Forgot. You're talking to the wrong person. I've got a Hamskea Hybrid Target Pro mounted on my ok archery Absolute 38. I am not impressed.....

Hamskea Lead Man devinhal helped me get mine corrected (wrong screws from factory). He also gave me a bunch more info/tips.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> What I was told I was told. Again no other drop rest uses a spring or dampening rubber.........
> 
> Good tension; Hamskea instructions.
> Step 3
> ...


The instructions you quoted are exactly what I said to do.

I don’t know who told you what, but when the hamskea came out they were very vocal (particularly Gillingham) about what that spring was for (preventing contact with the arrow from limb flutter).

Watch the high speed footage and you’ll see exactly why that spring is important.

I haven’t seen enough about the new device to know whether or not it accomplishes the same thing (I would expect it to). If it doesn’t, I’ll put a spring on mine should I have a reason to buy one in the future…

D


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## rober2wt (Feb 12, 2017)

i could see the dampener being less finicky during setup. my concern would be cold weather, like we mentioned. but the dampener is now acting as the spring even if its not round and shiny like a conventional spring.

youve got options now. use what you see fit.


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## 89_stang (Jul 31, 2015)

Back in the day you could custom order cars with certain options or delete items as well. Maybe bow companies could off you two options of riser rails that are machined in. Just a thought


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## Taylor_stone (Oct 15, 2015)

smau990 said:


> Well the Berger hole is the universal mounting option. Just that by todays engineering standards it's kind of a crude hack. Just put a Big Muthafugin Bolt and it still needs either another BMB or a set screw that gnaws into the riser or it will tilt from slightest bump.
> 
> QAD's way of dealing with Integrate™ dovetail is excellent example of company going for short term profit instead of considering what would take industry forward and benefit the customers most. Can't blame them for trying but personally as a customer it's also a reson not to buy QAD products if I can avoid it.


That’s true I guess I didn’t really think about the Berger hole. I definitely think someone will come up with something soon that will knock them (QAD) down in a sense and give them a run for their money in terms of competition. 

I’ve never had a limb driven rest because the sheer size of the Hamskea but I guess I’ve never really had a super nice bow either. I want to get a nicer bow and want to give them a shot.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> The instructions you quoted are exactly what I said to do.
> 
> I don’t know who told you what, but when the hamskea came out they were very vocal (particularly Gillingham) about what that spring was for (preventing contact with the arrow from limb flutter).
> 
> ...


You said good tension. You have your feel, I have mine and another has his. Instructions give 1/8". Even with the spring expanded to 1/8" it broke at the base. Broke like it was the screw no longer tightened the clamp and the lever fell off.
Bent the spring so the screw so it holds the spring and tightens the clamp. No more issues so far.

Watch all the videos you want. Show me another drop rest that uses a spring or rubber dampener......


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

rober2wt said:


> i could see the dampener being less finicky during setup. my concern would be cold weather, like we mentioned. but the dampener is now acting as the spring even if its not round and shiny like a conventional spring.
> 
> youve got options now. use what you see fit.


By devinhal you can have the cord to the lever directly. I guess a washer to two being a clamp for cord. Depending on the model or lever you could turn the lever end for end and use the tapped through hole. No spring, no dampener


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## JFin15 (Oct 11, 2019)

Dog gonnit, take my money already!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## rober2wt (Feb 12, 2017)

SonnyThomas said:


> By devinhal you can have the cord to the lever directly. I guess a washer to two being a clamp for cord. Depending on the model or lever you could turn the lever end for end and use the tapped through hole. No spring, no dampener


you dont use a spring. acknowledged.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> You said good tension. You have your feel, I have mine and another has his. Instructions give 1/8". Even with the spring expanded to 1/8" it broke at the base. Broke like it was the screw no longer tightened the clamp and the lever fell off.
> Bent the spring so the screw so it holds the spring and tightens the clamp. No more issues so far.
> 
> Watch all the videos you want. Show me another drop rest that uses a spring or rubber dampener......


I’ve never had one of their springs break. The only issue I’ve ever had was their football thing stripping out (and just being generally annoying to work with).

Show me another limb driven rest that doesn’t have the launcher arm bouncing back up as the arrow is leaving…

I like the hamskea rests and like the spring design, but before someone starts accusing me of being a fanboy I’ll point out that I’m currently looking at a switch to an AAE prophecy. Bought one a few months ago but it had a defect so I’m sticking with the hamskea until hunting season wraps and I have time to make a rest change. 

D


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

rober2wt said:


> you dont use a spring. acknowledged.


Currently the spring is in place. I just gave what devinhal told me. And I'm not presently using the Hamskea...I'm using my oldest Vapor Trail Limb Driver, 11 years old this past summer..........


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

deleted double post


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

deleted double post


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## grander (Mar 19, 2009)

Stick to the teleprompter and ween yourself off hitting 33K.
You're like the Archery Talk version of Joe Biden


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> I’ve never had one of their springs break. The only issue I’ve ever had was their football thing stripping out (and just being generally annoying to work with).
> 
> Show me another limb driven rest that doesn’t have the launcher arm bouncing back up as the arrow is leaving…
> 
> ...


One, I'm on Dial Up. No cable. Way too low for wireless to reach us. It would take all night to down a video.

I don't why I'd have to show a limb driven rest that doesn't bounce back. Not when I've placed and won with every drop rest I've owned. 
Some I've owned. 
QuikTune 4000 - pain in the butt to set
Trophy Taker - 2 models of
NAP Apache
NAP Freedom
Doodle Drop - a simple lead weight dropped the launch arm. Draw cord didn't need served in. 
Vapor Trail LImb Driver and Limb Driver Pro.

Bows I've used these rests on;
Hoyt UltraTec (3 of them)
Hoyt ProElite
Martin Shadowcat (3 of them)
Pearson TX4, MarXman, MX2 and 3 MX3s...


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> One, I'm on Dial Up. No cable. Way too low for wireless to reach us. It would take all night to down a video.
> 
> I don't why I'd have to show a limb driven rest that doesn't bounce back. Not when I've placed and won with every drop rest I've owned.
> Some I've owned.
> ...


I never said that other LD rests don’t shoot well. I said the launcher bounces up with the limb if there isn’t a spring, which it does, and can cause contact with the arrow.

Sorry you don’t have access to good internet to see this or a high speed camera to test this, but it’s well documented at this point.

I can list all the other rests I’ve won competitions with also and all the bows I’ve won with, but that’s completely irrelevant to the point of what happens if you don’t have a spring in the system with an LD rest…

D


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> I never said that other LD rests don’t shoot well. I said the launcher bounces up with the limb if there isn’t a spring, which it does, and can cause contact with the arrow.
> 
> Sorry you don’t have access to good internet to see this or a high speed camera to test this, but it’s well documented at this point.
> 
> ...


If there was any bouncing I would think I'd seen the effects.

I've stayed with the VT Limb Driver because of easy of setup and the launch arm has adjustable spring tension. 

I go this. It all comes down to personal preference.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Got a gift card for Lancaster coming on Christmas Eve. I will be pre-ordering this rest that night.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> If there was any bouncing I would think I'd seen the effects.
> 
> I've stayed with the VT Limb Driver because of easy of setup and the launch arm has adjustable spring tension.
> 
> I go this. It all comes down to personal preference.


You’d see the effects if you’d watch the videos that show them to everyone, for free, on YouTube…

Now I’m understanding why pros and other accomplished archers have abandoned AT….

D


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## gridman (Aug 26, 2007)

$250 for a rest...............no thanks


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## TheVikingCO (Sep 13, 2018)

gridman said:


> $250 for a rest...............no thanks


Prices for EVERYTHING are going up, not just rests. Also, that’s MSRP…you’ll be able to get them for around $200 at the right place.


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## buckeyebuckhntr (Jan 5, 2004)

TheVikingCO said:


> Prices for EVERYTHING are going up, not just rests. Also, that’s MSRP…you’ll be able to get them for around $200 at the right place.


That's not MSRP that is MAP pricing.


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## TheVikingCO (Sep 13, 2018)

buckeyebuckhntr said:


> That's not MSRP that is MAP pricing.


I got one for $225


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## jbrout (Jan 1, 2015)

Got one on order…. Would rather of had a vapor trail Mathews rest because I love those rest but hamskea is great too ! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> You’d see the effects if you’d watch the videos that show them to everyone, for free, on YouTube…
> 
> Now I’m understanding why pros and other accomplished archers have abandoned AT….
> 
> D


I already said if there was bounce I'd see the effects. So evidently none of drop rests have enough bounce to effect the shot.

When you're sponsored you promote that which is given to you. Regardless of sponsor one is not to get involved in disputes.

You might want to check around, past to present. How many top end shooters gave high regards of a item and that item didn't survive...I can name a couple; Torque Tamer (I believe that's what it was called)(Tim Gillingham and two others I can't remember). Highest praise was for the Copper John ANTS sight frame (Cousins, Gellenthien, Caudle, Levi Morgan). Vic Wunderle was on ANTS train and when did he shoot compounds?
Of course Pros change their minds when some archery base offers something better.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> I already said if there was bounce I'd see the effects. So evidently none of drop rests have enough bounce to effect the shot.
> 
> When you're sponsored you promote that which is given to you. Regardless of sponsor one is not to get involved in disputes.
> 
> ...


What are you even talking about at this point?

There is bounce, period. You just don’t know that because you haven’t yet run into an arrow contact issue yet (that you know of) and you haven’t watched the footage.

My comment on pros leaving was about people like you arguing about things you don’t actually know. Now I understand why they left the forum, it’s really frustrating…

D


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Just put my order in for one. The only complaint I’m going to have is that the Epsilon does not come with an easy glide cord tensioner. I really like that system better than the cord clamp assembly.


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## Hilton17144 (Jan 17, 2018)

devinhal said:


> MAP will be $249.99. We will be shipping them to dealers who pre ordered right after the first of the year. You can put your order in with your dealer and get your name on the list sooner that way.


can you select color for preorder such as Tan orare preorders only black?


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## rober2wt (Feb 12, 2017)

dk_ace1 said:


> What are you even talking about at this point?
> 
> There is bounce, period. You just don’t know that because you haven’t yet run into an arrow contact issue yet (that you know of) and you haven’t watched the footage.
> 
> ...


Dude just makes every thread about himself. My experience, accomplish people don’t plaster their accomplishments on the internet unsolicited. Dude is literally spending his time combing this forum on a dial up connection…

best not to feed into it.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

devinhal said:


> For your c
> 
> For your current bow, it will be a lot smaller and will save a little weight. Plus it will allow you to push your quiver even closer to the bow.


I don’t think I’ll swap out my trinity right away to have this rest, but I have a funny feeling I will change my mind when I see this rest in person… I like the trinity a bunch, and there is no practical reason to switch for me, but I own lots of stuff that wasn’t purchased for practicality, haha


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

the trinity is like a fat ballerina , she may dance good but you can’t help but notice all the rolls


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> What are you even talking about at this point?
> 
> There is bounce, period. You just don’t know that because you haven’t yet run into an arrow contact issue yet (that you know of) and you haven’t watched the footage.
> 
> ...


I told you to watch all the videos you want. The thing is I haven't ran into arrow contact. 

I've stayed with the VT Limb Driver since the summer of 2010. I told of the spring tension for the launch arm. I can make it so soft it won't raise the arrow or so stiff the the launch arm is rock solid.....

What do you know about the Pros leaving? They were long gone even before I joined 2006. Here you are member since 2015.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> I told you to watch all the videos you want. The thing is I haven't ran into arrow contact.
> 
> I've stayed with the VT Limb Driver since the summer of 2010. I told of the spring tension for the launch arm. I can make it so soft it won't raise the arrow or so stiff the the launch arm is rock solid.....
> 
> What do you know about the Pros leaving? They were long gone even before I joined 2006. Here you are member since 2015.


The spring tension of the launcher arm supporting the arrow has literally nothing to do with what we’ve been discussing, literally nothing. The hamskeas can do the same as you describe with the VT though. 

I joined long before 2015, forum glitch years ago made me start over. 

D


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> The spring tension of the launcher arm supporting the arrow has literally nothing to do with what we’ve been discussing, literally nothing. The hamskeas can do the same as you describe with the VT though.
> 
> I joined long before 2015, forum glitch years ago made me start over.
> 
> D


My Hybrid Target Pro won't adjust like my VT. Joined when, before me? 
Thanks though. Talked me into buying a VT G7X. Has to be as good as my Hybrid Target Pro.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> My Hybrid Target Pro won't adjust like my VT. Joined when, before me?
> Thanks though. Talked me into buying a VT G7X. Has to be as good as my Hybrid Target Pro.


I’ve got two hamskeas, both of them adjust between “wont lift the arrow” and “make the arrow pop up off the launcher”. Maybe something is wrong with yours?

Let me check my diary for the “joined archerytalk today” entry. It’s probably somewhere between the late 90s and early 00s. What does that matter though? If I joined yesterday it wouldn’t really have any bearing on this rest conversation.

D


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## chief razor (Apr 29, 2006)

lunghit said:


> Just put my order in for one. The only complaint I’m going to have is that the Epsilon does not come with an easy glide cord tensioner. I really like that system better than the cord clamp assembly.


Try a blakes hitch or a prusik knot. Way more convenient then any of the other options in my opinion.


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

SonnyThomas said:


> My Hybrid Target Pro won't adjust like my VT. Joined when, before me?
> Thanks though. Talked me into buying a VT G7X. Has to be as good as my Hybrid Target Pro.


Your Hybrid Target Pro has adjustment for the launcher spring tension, you just don't know how to adjust it and you certainly don't have a clue about Hamskea rests.

The Hybrid and Trinity have every adjustment you could ever want and are more versitile than any VT rest.

You may want to do some research before you dig a deeper hole.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

chief razor said:


> Try a blakes hitch or a prusik knot. Way more convenient then any of the other options in my opinion.


Damn I forgot about that trick. I actually ordered a easy glide this morning.


----------



## chief razor (Apr 29, 2006)

Well it is an improvement over the clamp….


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> I’ve got two hamskeas, both of them adjust between “wont lift the arrow” and “make the arrow pop up off the launcher”. Maybe something is wrong with yours?
> 
> Let me check my diary for the “joined archerytalk today” entry. It’s probably somewhere between the late 90s and early 00s. What does that matter though? If I joined yesterday it wouldn’t really have any bearing on this rest conversation.
> 
> D


346 gr arrow was either up or not no matter what I adjusted. I've messed with mine more than I want...It's set, gives bullet holes from up close to 15 feet. 
Soon as the weather breaks the Hybrid comes off......Either my newest VT Limb Driver (I got 4 of them) or VT Gen 7X will go on.
The Hybrid is 4 sale, had it 4 sale since last year and no takers - $100 TYD. Probably doesn't have 50 shots put over it........ 

Searching - I've yet to find anyone having issues of the launch bouncing to effect the shot or touch the vanes. If the problem existed it'd be all over AT.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

chief razor said:


> Well it is an improvement over the clamp….


It is. I'm actually surprised they didn't include the better of the two cord attachments (easy glide) with this top of line rest. IMO to have the best accessories you now have to spend an additional $10-15 on this rest.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

[


SonnyThomas said:


> 346 gr arrow was either up or not no matter what I adjusted. I've messed with mine more than I want...It's set, gives bullet holes from up close to 15 feet.
> Soon as the weather breaks the Hybrid comes off......Either my newest VT Limb Driver (I got 4 of them) or VT Gen 7X will go on.
> The Hybrid is 4 sale, had it 4 sale since last year and no takers - $100 TYD. Probably doesn't have 50 shots put over it........
> 
> Searching - I've yet to find anyone having issues of the launch bouncing to effect the shot or touch the vanes. If the problem existed it'd be all over AT.


You don’t know how to set the rest up, we’ve thoroughly established that at this point. You also established that don’t understand why a drop away that bounces back a little as the arrow is leaving is a less than ideal design that can lead to real problems, particularly if you set the launcher angle relatively shallow like you’re supposed to. We got it….

D


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> [
> 
> 
> You don’t know how to set the rest up, we’ve thoroughly established that at this point. You also established that don’t understand why a drop away that bounces back a little as the arrow is leaving is a less than ideal design that can lead to real problems, particularly if you set the launcher angle relatively shallow like you’re supposed to. We got it….
> ...


If I've set up one drop rest I've set up a 100. I worked for a archery shop....I've named what drop rests I've owned and used and gave of no issues other the QuikTune 4000 being a pain to set - prongs had to be extended just right (told by NAP tech). 

*If I've established anything it's that I don't have issues with bounce back pf the launch arm and so far haven't found anyone else having this issue with this.*

I bought the Hybrid new, first to open the package. Installed it and right off the bat the launch was angled down in the rest position. Here someone spoke up in the discussion and told of needing the rest back to keep the blade didn't slam into the shelf. In the up position the .010" blade was close to straight up..Shootable, but not right. Somewhere along the line Hamskea Lead Man devinhal entered the picture. He gave me tons of stuff to read over. He even worked out length of screws to try...*On going discussion and another spoke up. He too had issues the launch arm slamming into the shelf of his new bow. *He was ticked off big time. He bought nylon screws and filed the ends until his launch arm was (I guess) correct in both positions.........
I still have all that devinhal gave me and all instructions. If you want I'll post them all.............
Okay, wrong screws from the factory installed. Two of us experiencing the same with initial set up. I may still have his conversation - slow dig out because of Dial Up, but I'll look...

I will give devinhal a well deserved thank you. And I've seen him help others in here.......

Correct screws in place the blade perfectly level at rest. In the up position it is set seemingly correct for a blade used in drop rest mode. 

Many times frustrated I've let the rest and bow hang for days/weeks on end. Hey, I've got two other target bows set up.

Rest still set back as told to start with...so to have blade not slam into the shelf. "textured spring knob provides multiple adjust positions to change the rotation tension of the launcher shaft." Those two screws have to go back in regardless of desired tension. Two positions tried, one won't lift and other does.......

.














T


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> If I've set up one drop rest I've set up a 100. I worked for a archery shop....I've named what drop rests I've owned and used and gave of no issues other the QuikTune 4000 being a pain to set - prongs had to be extended just right (told by NAP tech).
> 
> *If I've established anything it's that I don't have issues with bounce back pf the launch arm and so far haven't found anyone else having this issue with this.*
> 
> ...


There is literally no chance I’m reading this book. The LD rests bounce back without a spring. Find a decent internet connection and watch the videos.

Have anything to say about the epsilon? 

D


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Tfranceschi said:


> Predator, would you be willing to show a picture of how you wrap that blade?


Here are some pics of one I’m using so you can get an idea. For full explanation better if I took pics step by step. Have a new g-flex blade on the way and will see if I can do so if get it in enough time before I travel for holidays.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

Predator said:


> Here are some pics of one I’m using so you can get an idea. For full explanation better if I took pics step by step. Have a new g-flex blade on the way and will see if I can do so if get it in enough time before I travel for holidays.
> 
> View attachment 7526536
> View attachment 7526537


What prompted the move to the g flex? I just put one I’m playing with on a target setup (because I broke the spring steel launcher I was trying to modify…). Never considered one for a hunting setup though. The g flex is pretty stiff (stiffer than the .012 blade it was replacing), so I’m not sure it’s staying on.

D


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Wboutdoors said:


> Qad hdx sells for around $125 to $150 at the most expensive
> 
> this is $250 or slightly less
> 
> worth it at twice the cost over qad hdx?


To me, 100%.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Bet their R&D are scratching their heads whether to or not....Couple small tapped holes may not seem all that much, but could snap a riser.... Some in here never heard of riser breaking, but they did....I know PSE had a target bow that snapped in half. Friend had one, broke twice. After the second time PSE gave him a new different bow......


I remember it with magnesium risers. They don’t currently slim the risers down enough to be an issue, bow companies are leaving meat on the bone to get that quiet dead feel… a 31” ata bow averages about 4.5# now, they used to focus on light, and with the riser flex of some, I’m sure it could be an issue


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## foamhunter77 (Jul 3, 2007)

I think we will start seeing a lot of integrated compatible accessories.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dk_ace1 said:


> There is literally no chance I’m reading this book. The LD rests bounce back without a spring. Find a decent internet connection and watch the videos.
> 
> Have anything to say about the epsilon?
> 
> D


Two days of searching and still can't find any one having issues with the launch arm bouncing back... Ain't reported, it ain't happening..........

I don't need the epsilon...........I don't care for the Integrate either.......

I'm done with you............


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

deleted double post


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## bowenginerd (Dec 29, 2014)

devinhal said:


> That would be a question to ask the bow companies, but I wouldn't advise it.


Devin, so say that someone were willing to sacrifice the warranty on a 2014 era bow and had the capabilities to drill and tap the riser on his own. What hole spacing and thread size/pitch would he use?


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> Two days of searching and still can't find any one having issues with the launch arm bouncing back... Ain't reported, it ain't happening..........
> 
> I don't need the epsilon...........I don't care for the Integrate either.......
> 
> I'm done with you............


Search for something along the lines of “can’t get rid of this XYZ tear” or “can’t bareshaft tune”. That’s one of the reasons why people sometimes have that problem. You can’t see it happen with the naked eye, so no one is going to start a thread saying they have that happening…

I’m glad you’re done with this whole line of silliness, it’s been exhausting…

D


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

bowenginerd said:


> Devin, so say that someone were willing to sacrifice the warranty on a 2014 era bow and had the capabilities to drill and tap the riser on his own. What hole spacing and thread size/pitch would he use?


I like you’re style…

D


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## gridman (Aug 26, 2007)

TheVikingCO said:


> Prices for EVERYTHING are going up, not just rests. Also, that’s MSRP…you’ll be able to get them for around $200 at the right place.


they can keep it for 200 also............seriously, it's an arrow rest.......


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Tfranceschi said:


> Predator, would you be willing to show a picture of how you wrap that blade?


See following pics step by step. You’ll see some overlap in some pics and the next pic will be trimmed. Last two picks will be top and bottom view of last wrap around shaft. This will be split up over a couple of posts given min we of pics.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Tfranceschi said:


> Predator, would you be willing to show a picture of how you wrap that blade?


----------



## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)




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## TheVikingCO (Sep 13, 2018)

gridman said:


> they can keep it for 200 also............seriously, it's an arrow rest.......


Supply and demand. 

There is a HUGE demand for this. They will sell thousands of them, regardless of your opinion.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

Predator said:


> See following pics step by step. You’ll see some overlap in some pics and the next pic will be trimmed. Last two picks will be top and bottom view of last wrap around shaft. This will be split up over a couple of posts given min we of pics.
> View attachment 7527215
> View attachment 7527216
> View attachment 7527217
> View attachment 7527218


I’m testing a g flex on a target rig right now. I haven’t considered one for my hunting bow. So far I really like the way it’s shooting and I’ve noticed some interesting positive things about it. My concern about hunting with it is that you can bend it. I’d be concerned it would get messed up on a hunt a lot easier than the steel launchers. Have you had any issues with that?

Also, are you setting the launcher spring super stiff so that your in shot flex comes from the launcher itself or are you leaving the launcher spring in play?

D


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## jasper.woodsm (Dec 21, 2021)

Ok, I have the Epsilon on order since I'm a huge Hamskea fan. I plan to put it on the new Hoyt carbon bow but the incompability of the mounting interfaces is just plain stupid. Why not give us customers a choice? I wouldn't mind to pay some uplift to cover the licencing fee. I will be charged almost $350 for the rest alone here in Europe, so another few $$ wouldn't matter at all. I have some ideas to overcome the neccessity of using the universal bracket...namely milling the mounting holes to the riser or 3d printing some kind of C.O.R./Integrate interface. But I'm really not excited for doing so...


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

dk_ace1 said:


> I’m testing a g flex on a target rig right now. I haven’t considered one for my hunting bow. So far I really like the way it’s shooting and I’ve noticed some interesting positive things about it. My concern about hunting with it is that you can bend it. I’d be concerned it would get messed up on a hunt a lot easier than the steel launchers. Have you had any issues with that?
> 
> Also, are you setting the launcher spring super stiff so that your in shot flex comes from the launcher itself or are you leaving the launcher spring in play?
> 
> D


The g-flex is quite stiff and I have no concerns with bending or breaking whatsoever. I don’t even know how that could happen. It’s flat against the rest at all times unless the bow is drawn. Hard for me to even conceive of any situation where you could possibly break it. And if you were worried about it you just carry and extra blade with you. Doesn’t even take a minute to swap out.

And no, there is little flex in the blade (but some) but I don’t rely on that entirely. I adjust tension usually one notch lower to optimize.


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

You have no idea what QAD is asking for licensing. Could be an absurd amount that doesnt make sense business wise. They're literally main competitors. 

We have a new awesome low profile rest from hamskea but people still find a reason to bish and moan.



jasper.woodsm said:


> Ok, I have the Epsilon on order since I'm a huge Hamskea fan. I plan to put it on the new Hoyt carbon bow but the incompability of the mounting interfaces is just plain stupid. Why not give us customers a choice? I wouldn't mind to pay some uplift to cover the licencing fee. I will be charged almost $350 for the rest alone here in Europe, so another few $$ wouldn't matter at all. I have some ideas to overcome the neccessity of using the universal bracket...namely milling the mounting holes to the riser or 3d printing some kind of C.O.R./Integrate interface. But I'm really not excited for doing so...


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

bowenginerd said:


> Devin, so say that someone were willing to sacrifice the warranty on a 2014 era bow and had the capabilities to drill and tap the riser on his own. What hole spacing and thread size/pitch would he use?


The standard rest mounting hole is 5/16"-24 threads.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Would you choose the Epsilon over the Trinity? Is it worth the $50 more for a rest that appears to be less robust and bulletproof as the Trinity?


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

jo3st3 said:


> Would you choose the Epsilon over the Trinity? Is it worth the $50 more for a rest that appears to be less robust and bulletproof as the Trinity?


Trinity was always too bulky for me. Always went with the hybrid hunter pro. This is the best of both world for me and will outfit my bows with them when they become more readily available.


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## gridman (Aug 26, 2007)

TheVikingCO said:


> Supply and demand.
> 
> There is a HUGE demand for this. They will sell thousands of them, regardless of your opinion.


I'm sure they will............it's called marketing


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

gridman said:


> I'm sure they will............it's called marketing


Its smaller, lighter, and lets you fit the quiver much tighter to the bow. Full blown upgrade to the current line. They wont need to market it much.


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## gridman (Aug 26, 2007)

vmals said:


> Its smaller, lighter, and lets you fit the quiver much tighter to the bow. Full blown upgrade to the current line. They wont need to market it much.


agreed, it is for sure nice, it will absolutely sell.......but to me.......waaaaay unnecessary a cost for an arrow rest.....I don't see the 250 appeal.....I'll get the same performance from my current arrow rests


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Not sure if others see it this way, but I think there are folks that go with a QAD simply because of the integrate mount, and if they were on the fence, it seals the deal. 

But if you ask most people about rests, they will say they prefer the Hamskea for a few reasons.

It's clear to me Hamskea is moving themselves closer and closer to competing head on with QAD for those customers that wan't the integrate rest mounting, or a similar style mounting option, as well as prepare their product line for the day they can mount the same way as QAD. Although who knows, maybe the two screws option will be the answer, and every bow maker will drill two holes for them.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

Predator said:


> The g-flex is quite stiff and I have no concerns with bending or breaking whatsoever. I don’t even know how that could happen. It’s flat against the rest at all times unless the bow is drawn. Hard for me to even conceive of any situation where you could possibly break it. And if you were worried about it you just carry and extra blade with you. Doesn’t even take a minute to swap out.
> 
> And no, there is little flex in the blade (but some) but I don’t rely on that entirely. I adjust tension usually one notch lower to optimize.


Ok, I wasnt really worried about breaking it, more about snagging it on brush, thorns, vines, etc and bending it. On my rest (maybe they’ve improved this on newer models?), there’s no easy way to replace the blade in exactly the same spot in the field. There’s quite a bit of play in the two screw holes that attach it.

It’s also possible that there’s a difference between the wide target g flex that I have and the whale tail model. They may not be very comparable. The target model could be easily bent, I know because I bent it up for some more side support and it held the bend.

D


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

jo3st3 said:


> Not sure if others see it this way, but I think there are folks that go with a QAD simply because of the integrate mount, and if they were on the fence, it seals the deal.
> 
> But if you ask most people about rests, they will say they prefer the Hamskea for a few reasons.
> 
> It's clear to me Hamskea is moving themselves closer and closer to competing head on with QAD for those customers that wan't the integrate rest mounting, or a similar style mounting option, as well as prepare their product line for the day they can mount the same way as QAD. Although who knows, maybe the two screws option will be the answer, and every bow maker will drill two holes for them.


Well it was damn close for me. I had the order in for IMX already despite not liking QAD or cable rests much to begin with. Then again so many users it can’t be that bad. It’s light too compared to Hamskea. Anyways, canceled after Epsilon was revealed.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

dk_ace1 said:


> Ok, I wasnt really worried about breaking it, more about snagging it on brush, thorns, vines, etc and bending it. On my rest (maybe they’ve improved this on newer models?), there’s no easy way to replace the blade in exactly the same spot in the field. There’s quite a bit of play in the two screw holes that attach it.
> 
> It’s also possible that there’s a difference between the wide target g flex that I have and the whale tail model. They may not be very comparable. The target model could be easily bent, I know because I bent it up for some more side support and it held the bend.
> 
> D


Simple answer is no, I’ve never had an issue. But based on pics below it’s pretty inconceivable you could have an issue and would take quite a bit of pressure to bend one where located. That said, nothing wrong with the same version in metal - used their metal blades for years as well with no issues either. And if you have a backup it, by definition, would be in the exact same location and not affect tune. Not sure I understand your comment about play in the screw holes. There are only two holes and zero play.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Backup with screws (they come with) shown below. If worried about the 1:1,000,000,000 chance of bending your blade simply throw this on your pack and (assuming you have Allen keys in pack like everyone should) you are back up and running in 1-2 min max.


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## rober2wt (Feb 12, 2017)

Fun fact I stumbled across today. There is a reason you don’t see a spring on any other LD rest…

because it’s patented by hamskea.


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## joshburchette00 (Dec 17, 2021)

wait, does it work with integrate or not?


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## jasper.woodsm (Dec 21, 2021)

joshburchette00 said:


> wait, does it work with integrate or not?


Not directly! The universal bracket mounted to the berger hole must be used.


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## jasper.woodsm (Dec 21, 2021)

jo3st3 said:


> Not sure if others see it this way, but I think there are folks that go with a QAD simply because of the integrate mount, and if they were on the fence, it seals the deal.


Well, I had the QAD on order and I was ready to move away from Hamkea Hybrid Hunter in favor of the QAD's streamlined design. Cancelled my order the exact moment I saw the first info on Epsilon. The universal bracket solution is not perfect but I can get around it.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

To me rather I buy one or not is pretty simple.

If I was getting a v3x yes, I much prefer limb driven to cable driven. If I was getting another current bow, no. It is lighter and smaller than the trinity, but not worth the 25% increase in cost imo. In the future if cor is implemented, then it gets intresting as that mount makes it 1.4oz lighter. With the conventional mount its only .4 oz.( per post in this thread in response to that very question)


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## sapper1 (Oct 3, 2003)

It looks like at least two manufacturers are on board and offering tapped risers on their new bows. They are small fries but it's a start. I personally do not see any real advantage to mounting directly to the riser as you loose any ability to torque tune your bow if you are someone that does that. I will always use a rest that gives me the ability to move it away from or closer to the riser.


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## roosterstraw (Dec 9, 2015)

My concern with LD rest is the forks in downward position. I would be afraid the arrow has the potential to bounce around and make noise while stalking or grabbing the bow off the hanger. Also steep angle shots, seems like the arrow can move around. Has anyone had these problems with a hamskea in these hunting scenarios?


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## sapper1 (Oct 3, 2003)

roosterstraw said:


> My concern with LD rest is the forks in downward position. I would be afraid the arrow has the potential to bounce around and make noise while stalking or grabbing the bow off the hanger. Also steep angle shots, seems like the arrow can move around. Has anyone had these problems with a hamskea in these hunting scenarios?


I have had zero issues with that but I do line the arrow shelf with dampening material like I have always done with every rest I have used. I don't do much stalking so I can't speak to that.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

roosterstraw said:


> My concern with LD rest is the forks in downward position. I would be afraid the arrow has the potential to bounce around and make noise while stalking or grabbing the bow off the hanger. Also steep angle shots, seems like the arrow can move around. Has anyone had these problems with a hamskea in these hunting scenarios?


I have the Hamskea Hybrid Target Pro. The arrow at rest is so high that I had to find a real tall arrow holder to keep the arrow from rattling around and keep in place for the launch arm to pick up the arrow. 
I can post a pic of the holder if wanted......
Just above the red line is the shelf.......


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## Kellyreno (Oct 24, 2012)

Cool! And Dang it!
Bought another Trinity not too long ago... guess I'll be buying yet another (another nuther?) Hamskea 
The fit on a dovetail is gonna be to slick for me to pass up. I don't really mind the bulkiness of the Trinity that much but these new designs are cool.


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

rober2wt said:


> Fun fact I stumbled across today. There is a reason you don’t see a spring on any other LD rest…
> 
> because it’s patented by hamskea.


No, it’s because it’s not needed, or at least that’s what I heard on this forum lol…

I didn’t realize they had patented it. I looked at another LD rest I thought about trying a few years ago. I didn’t end up trying it, but if I had switched to it I definitely would have added a spring inline with the cord somehow.

D


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

roosterstraw said:


> My concern with LD rest is the forks in downward position. I would be afraid the arrow has the potential to bounce around and make noise while stalking or grabbing the bow off the hanger. Also steep angle shots, seems like the arrow can move around. Has anyone had these problems with a hamskea in these hunting scenarios?


The arrow rests on the arrow holder and riser shelf on most bows. You pad both of those. When stalking, you wrap your bow hand index finger around the arrow to keep it from bouncing around. Never had an issue picking it up when in the stand, but you could wrap your index finger on it then too if you’re clumsy.

D


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

roosterstraw said:


> My concern with LD rest is the forks in downward position. I would be afraid the arrow has the potential to bounce around and make noise while stalking or grabbing the bow off the hanger. Also steep angle shots, seems like the arrow can move around. Has anyone had these problems with a hamskea in these hunting scenarios?


I just put a strip of moleskin on the edge of the riser where the arrow might contact and problem solved


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bojangles808 said:


> I just put a strip of moleskin on the edge of the riser where the arrow might contact and problem solved


Wide as shelves are you need a holder to keep arrow aligned so the launch can pick it up....

This is what I have for the Target Pro.....Hunter Hamskeas are different...
See pic in #241 - The launch arm is just high. Shoots great like it is.....


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## Dafis (Jul 12, 2009)

so you buy a bracket to mount the rest, want is the advantage to just mounting the rest to the bow?


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

SonnyThomas said:


> Wide as shelves are you need a holder to keep arrow aligned so the launch can pick it up....


i haven't needed one. its feeds no matter where its at for me


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## dk_ace1 (Mar 31, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> Wide as shelves are you need a holder to keep arrow aligned so the launch can pick it up....
> 
> This is what I have for the Target Pro.....Hunter Hamskeas are different...
> See pic in #241 - The launch arm is just high. Shoots great like it is.....
> View attachment 7528514


Why are you referencing one of their older target rests? The poster is asking a hunting question about the epsilon, which has a built in arrow holder on the arm which the launcher attaches to. The height of or distance from the shelf is irrelevant on both the epsilon and the trinity.

D


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bojangles808 said:


> *I just put a strip of moleskin on the edge of the riser where the arrow might contact and problem solved*





SonnyThomas said:


> Wide as shelves are you need a holder to keep arrow aligned so the launch can pick it up....
> 
> This is what I have for the Target Pro....*.Hunter Hamskeas are different...*
> See pic in #241 - The launch arm is just high. Shoots great like it is.....
> View attachment 7528514





dk_ace1 said:


> Why are you referencing one of their older target rests? The poster is asking a hunting question about the epsilon, which has a built in arrow holder on the arm which the launcher attaches to. The height of or distance from the shelf is irrelevant on both the epsilon and the trinity.
> 
> D


For looks the old and the new aren't that much different. 
I wasn't replying to the Poster. 
I noted the Hunter model was different.


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

co_golfer28 said:


> I'm curious to hear which manufactures will be providing these "tapped/threaded" holes on their risers to allow for hamskeas dovetail bracket....


Martin and Obsession


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

When will this rest actually ship? That's the biggest issue these days... it sounds great but you end up waiting for months. Anyone know ship dates on these?


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

chenashot said:


> Martin and Obsession


they are still around?


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

jo3st3 said:


> When will this rest actually ship? That's the biggest issue these days... it sounds great but you end up waiting for months. Anyone know ship dates on these?


From what I hear they will be sent to dealers right around the first of the year. Their website says available 1/1/22 so let's hope thats the case. Hamskea seems like a business that has all their ducks in a row so I bet they will be in our hands by mid to end January.


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## jbrout (Jan 1, 2015)

jo3st3 said:


> When will this rest actually ship? That's the biggest issue these days... it sounds great but you end up waiting for months. Anyone know ship dates on these?


Lancaster told me mine should be here end of January 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

jbrout said:


> Lancaster told me mine should be here end of January


Which version did you order, the universal or Mathews specific version?


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

jo3st3 said:


> Which version did you order, the universal or Mathews specific version?


I ordered the universal.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

jbrout said:


> Lancaster told me mine should be here end of January


I ordered one from Lancaster with the Mathews mount, and they said realistically they have absolutely no idea. The stock answer they always give is 4+ weeks.

I also ordered an Axcel Landslyde from them.... they told me 4+ weeks, 4 weeks ago lol. Again, with no estimated date. 

So keep that in mind if you're planning any bow builds around it being delivered, there's no telling at this point.


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## Room101 (Nov 25, 2018)

I can't seem to find a clear photo of how it mounts, but I don't think the Integrate is a traditional dovetail. I have a very hard time believing that a patent on a basic dovetail attachment would survive a legal challenge.

I'm opposed to any kind of proprietary rest mount that requires special grooves or holes machined into the riser just for one brand of rest. It would be better if bow makers would get together and come up with a standardized system that any brand of rest could use freely.



omoore said:


> I admittedly know nothing about patents, but the connection method doesn't seem unique enough to warrant a patent.


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

I looked on the Hamskea site and didn't even see the Epsilon, does anyone know what colors it will come in. Wish they would come out with a Nut brown version but highly unlikely due to number of bows being that color. Might just have to get sand or black again. Looking for a new to me back-up bow in First Lite Fusion. Black Evolve is going to hit the street if I find a #60 Evo Nxt.
Ches.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Ches said:


> I looked on the Hamskea site and didn't even see the Epsilon, does anyone know what colors it will come in. Wish they would come out with a Nut brown version but highly unlikely due to number of bows being that color. Might just have to get sand or black again. Looking for a new to me back-up bow in First Lite Fusion. Black Evolve is going to hit the street if I find a #60 Evo Nxt.
> Ches.


It's there but the only color I see is black






The EPSILON Arrow Rest – COMING SOON! | Hamskeaarchery







www.hamskeaarchery.com


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

E. Johnson said:


> Where do you have your cord tied to the limb on your X33? Reading the Hamskea bracket made for Mathews limb attachment is to far out on the limb tip for the timing to be correct.


Tie it to the yoke.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

I ordered one with Mathews bracket. Let the wait begin. Really hope I didn't get suckered into a 4+ month wait. I keep ordering things with endless wait times.... what's one more.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

jo3st3 said:


> I ordered one with Mathews bracket. Let the wait begin. Really hope I didn't get suckered into a 4+ month wait. I keep ordering things with endless wait times.... what's one more.


I ordered through lancaster, Fingers crossed. 

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## Poe Outdoors (Apr 24, 2021)

Ches said:


> I looked on the Hamskea site and didn't even see the Epsilon, does anyone know what colors it will come in. Wish they would come out with a Nut brown version but highly unlikely due to number of bows being that color. Might just have to get sand or black again. Looking for a new to me back-up bow in First Lite Fusion. Black Evolve is going to hit the street if I find a #60 Evo Nxt.
> Ches.


Black only for now per Hamskea Instagram.


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

Are the Trinity and Epsilon the only rest from Hamskea with mico tune? Never thought it was a big deal till I tuned a bow with one.
Ches.


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## CSawatsky (Dec 24, 2021)

Lancaster Archery did a review on this and he was saying it won’t directly mount to the Mathews riser? Anyone else heard this?


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## 50bmgshooter (Mar 25, 2019)

It's posted right in this thread that it's a patent issue and it wasn't designed to mount to the integrat dovetail


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Ches said:


> Are the Trinity and Epsilon the only rest from Hamskea with mico tune? Never thought it was a big deal till I tuned a bow with one.
> Ches.


HHP is available with microadjust.

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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

CSawatsky said:


> Lancaster Archery did a review on this and he was saying it won’t directly mount to the Mathews riser? Anyone else heard this?


It will not use the integrated mounting system that QAD uses on Mathews. For most bows on the market it will still use the berger hole to mount, it's just very low profile so you can run the low profile quiver, as well as being smaller and lighter than the Trinity. There will be some bows on the market where it direct mounts without the berger, using two screws in the same place as the integrated mount, but no one knows any bow that this applies too at the moment (it could be the new PSEs, but no confirmations). In future years, more companies may offer this two screw mounting, and Mathews may even offer both mounting options for inline rests. For a Mathews bow, you would want to buy the Epsilon Mathews mount over the universal mount


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## Kyle Wheeler (Dec 12, 2021)

Pretty excited about this!


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## Jcoutu55 (Nov 6, 2021)

Pretty lame it will only come in black.... I reached out and they said they have no plans on coming out with colors. Its either dumb they do this with every other rest but this one or they want me to buy it early and then come out with colors and try to get me to buy another one. either way kinda weird and sketchy...


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## ThatsmeKB (Apr 14, 2021)

Or you could find a guy to paint it what ever color you want!! Good first post bro!!


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## norcalmx391 (Nov 14, 2021)

Lol. It is lame they are not dropping it in multiple colors!


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## sapper1 (Oct 3, 2003)

jo3st3 said:


> It will not use the integrated mounting system that QAD uses on Mathews. For most bows on the market it will still use the berger hole to mount, it's just very low profile so you can run the low profile quiver, as well as being smaller and lighter than the Trinity. There will be some bows on the market where it direct mounts without the berger, using two screws in the same place as the integrated mount, but no one knows any bow that this applies too at the moment (it could be the new PSEs, but no confirmations). In future years, more companies may offer this two screw mounting, and Mathews may even offer both mounting options for inline rests. For a Mathews bow, you would want to buy the Epsilon Mathews mount over the universal mount


Obsession and Martin will have the holes this year. Not a big splash by any means but it's a start.


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

Ches said:


> Are the Trinity and Epsilon the only rest from Hamskea with mico tune? Never thought it was a big deal till I tuned a bow with one.
> Ches.


Hybrid Hunter Pro Microtune


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

MNarrow said:


> Hybrid Hunter Pro Microtune


Thanks, I will check that one out.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Just got an email from Lancaster that my rest has been shipped and on the way to me.


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## satchamo (May 6, 2006)

lunghit said:


> Just got an email from Lancaster that my rest has been shipped and on the way to me.


Same here!


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## dcopher (Jul 13, 2015)

I was able to put my hands on one last night, a special gift from the rep to the archery shop. The rest is typical Hamskea, very well made and fit and finish is excellent. The standard mount is very low-profile. To me, it looks like they have checked all the boxes and addressed the one issue I had with the Trinity, which was the extra width that would cause it to hit my hand on every shot. I will own one when they become available.


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## Jmillwood21 (Nov 6, 2019)

I also got a shipping notification from Lancaster earlier.


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## Breaksbulls (May 26, 2009)

It's amazing to see what a company can do when there's little to no out sourcing of materials and all work it being done in house. Granted there aren't near the employees to get sick and shut the whole place down. Good for them! Looking forward to trying this on my 7 ultra. The lower profile is great cause, while i liked the originals I never fell in love, actually preferred the original (made in the usa) smackdown pro better, just because of the size. The hameskea is clearly a better rest just to bulky.


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## buckeyebuckhntr (Jan 5, 2004)

From your guys posts about them shipping, I stopped by Lancasters website and ordered one. I shoot Mathews but was leaning toward getting the universal bracket for more mounting setup options. The Mathews bracket was out of stock but the Universal was in stock so it made the choice that much easier.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

dcopher said:


> I was able to put my hands on one last night, a special gift from the rep to the archery shop. The rest is typical Hamskea, very well made and fit and finish is excellent. The standard mount is very low-profile. To me, it looks like they have checked all the boxes and addressed the one issue I had with the Trinity, which was the extra width that would cause it to hit my hand on every shot. I will own one when they become available.


They're available now, Mine just shipped from lancaster.

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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Anyone have them yet? New bow is supposed to show up tomorrow


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## chevy_freak (Sep 27, 2015)

Looks like Martin is going with the core mount.

Guess I'll have to add my 6th Martin to the collection in the future.


I had a used trinity target I bought in the classifieds just because one day. Sat on my shelf for a few years as a spare because my limbdriver was already tuned. 
Limbdriver blew apart the day before a 3d tournament, and after finally installing the hamskea I ended up with 3 of them. 

I doubt I'll ever use any other rest. They're built solid.


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## Hosshunter (Mar 17, 2013)

I received my preordered Mathews version from Lancaster today. Well made and much more compact than the Trinity, for sure. I did notice that the Mathews bracket was inside of 90 deg by quite a bit. I didn’t see any impact marks indicating it was damaged. I don’t know if this is by design to keep it tight to the back of the riser, but it would have to be displaced quite a bit. I wonder if anyone else’s looks like this? I got voicemail at Hamskea.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Nice. I also ordered from Lancaster but still haven't received anything. Still on backorder.

But that bracket doesn't look correct to me. I haven't seen one out of the package but how could that possible be right. You should contact Lancaster or Hamskea.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

Got mine!


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

lunghit said:


> Just got an email from Lancaster that my rest has been shipped and on the way to me.


Ditto


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## Breaksbulls (May 26, 2009)

I'm betting the mathews mount is a bit less than 90 degrees for when you clamp it down it locks into the riser with flex for a zero tolerance fit tight to the integrate on the riser. I sure could be wrong.


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## Hosshunter (Mar 17, 2013)

Breaksbulls said:


> I'm betting the mathews mount is a bit less than 90 degrees for when you clamp it down it locks into the riser with flex for a zero tolerance fit tight to the integrate on the riser. I sure could be wrong.


I’m hoping so. I sent Hamskea an email but I’m sure I won’t get a response this weekend. Curious to see if anyone else gets a Mathews bracket that looks like mine.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Hosshunter said:


> I’m hoping so. I sent Hamskea an email but I’m sure I won’t get a response this weekend. Curious to see if anyone else gets a Mathews bracket that looks like mine.


I have one on the way - won’t be home until tomorrow - not sure if it will be waiting for me or not show until early next week. Either way, I’ll let you know. On the surface yours doesn’t look right but I suppose it could be designed that way.

EDIT - just checked tracking and it’s supposed to show up Monday. I won’t be mounting until I’m done hunting as I have the Trinity mounted and tuned and don’t want to mess with it until I have time to start over (sort of) on tuning.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

Hosshunter said:


> I received my preordered Mathews version from Lancaster today. Well made and much more compact than the Trinity, for sure. I did notice that the Mathews bracket was inside of 90 deg by quite a bit. I didn’t see any impact marks indicating it was damaged. I don’t know if this is by design to keep it tight to the back of the riser, but it would have to be displaced quite a bit. I wonder if anyone else’s looks like this? I got voicemail at Hamskea.
> View attachment 7534850


This is correct. The mount is slightly less than 90 degrees so that when the mounting bolt is tight to the riser it will flex to prefect fit. 

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## Hosshunter (Mar 17, 2013)

Awesome! Thanks for the response. Time to get it mounted up!


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## JustinD243 (Jan 11, 2022)

Is there a benefit in purchasing the Mathews specific bracket/rest over the universal? Besides the little bit of weight? Just don't want to switch to a different bow company in the future and have to buy a new rest... From what I have seen it should work on the Mathews just fine and still be setup at center.


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## devinhal (Jul 24, 2012)

The Mathews Bracket is a smaller profile option compared to the Universal Bracket. The Mathews Bracket also eliminates the need for a set screw. If you change bow companies in the future, you will be able to purchase whatever bracket best meets your needs without needing to purchase a whole new rest. The idea being that the Epsilon will work for all bows past, present, and future.


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## BucksNBulls (Jul 3, 2019)

Loving mine on the RX7 Ultra. This is my 3rd Hamskea, Also have the Trinity and the Hunter. Have liked them all.


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## cjhd00 (Sep 25, 2010)

Wboutdoors said:


> Qad hdx sells for around $125 to $150 at the most expensive
> 
> this is $250 or slightly less
> 
> worth it at twice the cost over qad hdx?


I think this rest is more to compete with the integrate that is also $250. Hamskea has lower priced rests also .


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