# Engineering Project, Arrow Tracking Device



## TJK (Dec 2, 2010)

I did your survey. As Far as the Price I could See giving up to $200 If you can guarantee you will be able to recover it and not be damaged every time! If not they will be a hard sell even at $50, there are several people that won't even spend $10 on a lighted nock. 

You need another option on "Do you have trouble finding your animal" I put yes but usually don't have trouble but there have been a few times that I have.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

all you have to do is figure out how to shrink all ready available products.

RF tracking bug will probably be the easiest to shrink but you possibly could do GPS. GPS will have a problem of signal loss...seeing the sats clearly. Maybe if your hand unit recorded waypoints, you could have last known coordinate.

I guess you could go two ways with RF, pulsed output for a receiver or a tuning fork method...your hand unit sends a signal out and the RF bug simply responds with a ping.


Would I buy one? Depends, if it was light enough and cheap enough, maybe. But I'm one that won't even buy lighted nocks...I can track just fine. But RF tracking, that would be cool enough to consider.

Maybe have an interface that plugs into your phone? You could use google earth to plot the location.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

you have to consider what happens on a pass through. the arrow would be on the ground on other side of the animal. Then the animal runs how would you track the animal with the arrow being in sight? Also consider how much weight will add to the arrow.


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## rhythmz (Jan 10, 2010)

Survey taken...Good Luck!!!


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

mhill said:


> you have to consider what happens on a pass through. the arrow would be on the ground on other side of the animal. Then the animal runs how would you track the animal with the arrow being in sight? Also consider how much weight will add to the arrow.


Good point...Maybe figure out some way to have it left behind in the animal?

the other issue would be carbon fiber RF masking...forgot about that. Maybe embedded RFID chip/antenna in an arrow wrap....I know those RFID's are done with thin-film technology now.


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## Veni Vidi Vici (Jan 23, 2011)

Here's one solution .... ILLUMANIGHT

No idea if it actually works or not ....


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## Dakota6gun (Nov 27, 2007)

I tried ILLUMANIGHT. 10 degrees outside, I hit a doe perfectly, saw the orange stuff burst all over. Pretty easy tracking job because there was fresh snow on the ground, but I couldn't get a hit on the ILLUMNANIGHT stuff to save my soul. Found the plastic cartridge inside the animal and her insides glowed like a disco under a black light. Except for the point of impact, all the orange stuff went inside her. Pretty disappointing result. I contacted the ILLUMANIGHT people about it and got no response. Also pretty disappointing.


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## dxtbowhuntersj (May 8, 2008)

One of the best tracking tools, is patience. Take your time. Don't rush and mess up blood trail. Pick the best trail a deer would take.


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## beaverman (Jun 21, 2008)

There was a tracking tool for arrows on the market a few years ago, it mounted behind the broadhead and had a barbed fixture that detached as the arrow went through leaving an RF tag on the animal. I think it was called tracking bug or something like that. Here is a link to the patent info from it http://www.google.com/patents/US4940245 This may be the one I was thinking of http://www.northamericanst.com/bowbug.htm a quick search revealed a few different arrow mounted tracking devices


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## bengalbrother (Dec 17, 2007)

Make a nock with barbs coming out of it, similar to a bowfishing arrow, but facing forward. Attach a 4' piece of heavy braided fishing line going from the insert to the nock, where the tracker is located. As the arrow goes through the animal, the barbs would pull the nock out, but the arrow would still be connected to the animal...


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## jdoc (Jul 31, 2012)

bengalbrother said:


> Make a nock with barbs coming out of it, similar to a bowfishing arrow, but facing forward. Attach a 4' piece of heavy braided fishing line going from the insert to the nock, where the tracker is located. As the arrow goes through the animal, the barbs would pull the nock out, but the arrow would still be connected to the animal...


This is what i was thinking, why not turn the nock into the rf tracker? Maybe even but a small coil spring in the shaft that is pulled out by the string so it is better secured to your deer?


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## booppr (Nov 24, 2006)

the nock would be a good idea except for when you don't get a pass though, and they break the arrow off while they are running, and your tag is left on the ground.

something else to look into is trying to make it Pope and Young legal. which means it cant be battery operated. i know in Colorado we cant even use lighted nocks or sight lights on our bows. its an "electronic device" and is considered an unfair advantage. probably going to be really hard to do that but it would cut on costs and be ok in all states and wouldn't disqualify a trophy form the books....


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## Cotton-Eye (Oct 28, 2012)

http://ironmountainproducts.com/deer-recovery-products/


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## Veni Vidi Vici (Jan 23, 2011)

@Dakota6gun: ILLUMANIGHT claims to not affect arrow flight. Did you find that to be the case?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

booppr said:


> the nock would be a good idea except for when you don't get a pass though, and they break the arrow off while they are running, and your tag is left on the ground.
> 
> something else to look into is trying to make it Pope and Young legal. which means it cant be battery operated. i know in Colorado we cant even use lighted nocks or sight lights on our bows. its an "electronic device" and is considered an unfair advantage. probably going to be really hard to do that but it would cut on costs and be ok in all states and wouldn't disqualify a trophy form the books....


Not battery powered...hence the RF tag. With a resonant antenna, you simply send out a signal that is tuned to the antenna frequency and it rings like a tuning fork "sympathetic frequency"....that ringing is picked up by your receiver.

hardest part...leaving it in the game.


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## booppr (Nov 24, 2006)

Good to know!!! I really don't know much about radio frequencies or anything like that, I was just throwing that suggestion out there


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

there are already a couple of these products on the market....bowbug I think is the name of one of them.

The biggest hurdle to overcome is that this product would be illegal in almost every state since it would be considered electronics in the pursuit of game..


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## jogr (Oct 2, 2010)

Fury90flier said:


> Not battery powered...hence the RF tag. With a resonant antenna, you simply send out a signal that is tuned to the antenna frequency and it rings like a tuning fork "sympathetic frequency"....that ringing is picked up by your receiver.
> 
> hardest part...leaving it in the game.


How close does the receiver have to be to the rf tag to pick it up?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

depends on how sensitive you make the receiver, how much amplification you used, how much DB your rx antenna has (is it parabolic?) how much noise you can filter out, how unique the signal is. If you made the antenna, non-powered, the aforementioned issues, would be more of an issue.

specific distance...don't really know. Get some RF tags and play with it. Spend some time studying RF antenna design, signal amplification and processing. Maybe look at Texas Instruments, Fairechild, Analog Devices, maybe burr brown...they'll have components with a few project schematics.

Also, look at the references mentioned where this has already been done...try to improve the existing product.

maybe just research RF arrow tracking.


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## crazygary (Sep 28, 2009)

yeah....finding my wounded deer with a gps is def not for me. I practice and shoot my game in the lungs.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

What technological advances in archery do you use? Do you use a feeder, hunt from a stand and use modern camo and maybe scent blockers? What about your gear...typically people are using scopes, peeps, releases, short ATA speed bows for equipment. All the modern techno gadgets in archery give you an edge, why not in finding game?

The more I think about it, the more I'm all for it...no more lost deer


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## booppr (Nov 24, 2006)

AustinSQD have you come up with any direction your wanting to go yet? I'm anxious to see what you come up with, as I'm sure alot of the people who are tuning in lol


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## mike-E (Nov 12, 2009)

many will argue against but i think all states should allow the use of poison capsules again. if you choose to take a shot youre choosing to take the animals life, no reason we shouldnt do whatever possible to guarantee death not maming. a mamed animal will still give you a run for your money no matter what youve got attached to track it.


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## cqboling (Feb 1, 2009)

I think all of the ideas here would make more hunters take bad or unethical shots, I can see it now hail mary shots out to 80 yrds and find it later.


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## Gunner7800 (Jul 11, 2007)

What about something like a FOB? Put barbs on it that will attach to the animal. When the shot is made the arrow can detach from the FOB and pass through while the FOB stays attached to the animal giving off a signal or a ping return like an rf tag.


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## TJK (Dec 2, 2010)

cqboling said:


> I think all of the ideas here would make more hunters take bad or unethical shots, I can see it now hail mary shots out to 80 yrds and find it later.


Yes I could see this being a problem also, but I think most of the unethical hunters will do it with or with out a tracking device. Most wouldn't even care if they wounded the animal or not. 

I think it could possibly be good for the ethical hunter though, I don't like to claim this but I lost 2 nice bucks in the same year I believe that both of the shots were good enough to kill. I believe that I am one of the most ethical hunters out there, and I practice religiously all year (Indoor, 3d, and shoot broadheads in the back yard during season.)

Will I buy one? Not sure yet it is going to depend on Quality, Price, and Ease of use. 99% of the time I would never use it but I hate leaving an animal out there for the coyotes to get. Maybe I could use it as a back up if I were to run out of blood trail or something I don’t think you would want to use it every time because then if it didn’t work some time you would have forgotten how to actually track a deer. I know Missouri has passed a law that you can use dogs to track your animal. At first I thought this was going to be a bad thing, but the more I looked into it they have set it up nice. After you have searched to the best of your ability you have to call the game warden and tell him what you are doing and why and you are not aloud to carry a bow, or gun (this eliminates people hunting with dogs). Now I don’t think I will do this partly because I don’t have a dog that would, but I’m glade they have aloud us the option.


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## ndbwhunter (Sep 10, 2012)

So what happens in the event of a non-lethal shot? The animal lives and now has a barbed tracking device, or something similar, stuck to/in its body. I'm not against the use of tracking aids, but this just seems unethical. All you really need is a well placed shot, a little time and a good flashlight. I'm not knocking the idea, but I think it will be difficult to get consistent results with something like this.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

cqboling said:


> I think all of the ideas here would make more hunters take bad or unethical shots, I can see it now hail mary shots out to 80 yrds and find it later.


Isn't that what the 70+# bows are for? The only thing different would be that those hunters would be able to find those animals their shooting...


I can't really buy into the "unethical" argument. If we're going to do that then we need to say, feeders, scent blockers, tree stands, string/cable silencers, camo are all unethical.


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## ndbwhunter (Sep 10, 2012)

I can't really buy into the "unethical" argument. If we're going to do that then we need to say, feeders, scent blockers, tree stands, string/cable silencers, camo are all unethical.[/QUOTE]

None of the tools that you described will aid in locating deer though. Feeders may be the acception because they attract deer, but baiting is also illegal in some states, just as this tracking device would be.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I think you're missing the point in using the tags. We're not advocating going out and tag/release situation.

Absolutely they'll aid in locating deer. They all give you an edge by allowing the deer to come in closer to you before they're seeing or smelling the hunter...clearly unfair advantage. If they're coming in closer, you're more easily able to identify and shoot them. 

How is being able to locate a wounded or dead deer an unfair advantage...it's already shot. Wouldn't locating the deer before coyote or vultures getting to them be a better thing?

As to finding a lost deer someone else shot/tagged, the tags could be coded to be receiver specific.


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## TJK (Dec 2, 2010)

I agree that a well placed shot is the best but sometime Stuff happens (tree branch, buck fever, etc.). I would think that anything that comes off of the arrow from the nock end would mean that the arrow was a pass through most of the time if the arrow goes completely through it is usually lethal, weather it be immediate or do to infection. And even if it was not a lethal shot a barb in the hide wouldn't be any worse than a cuckabur. Again I’m not saying I will use one but why not keep an open mind every one makes mistakes why not have the option to help retrieve your animal in the event that you do screw up (and I bet you have or will no one makes a perfect shot every time) Not pointing fingers at just one person here just trying to make a point.


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## booppr (Nov 24, 2006)

........ This is a project for a school assignment.... The sky is the limit on this. It doesn't have to be and RF antenna with barbs hooking into the animal, those were all suggestions. I could be something like being able to dial in a satellite and having it take pictures every second or two and sending you a file on you cell phone so you can see which deer went where... A short term digital blood trailing device activated by switch on your bow when it's fired..... Who knows what he could do with this, he asked for suggestions and these are some suggestions.... Controversy is everywhere in this sport, and I think if it helps recover game legally taken, I'm all for it... Although it does not excuse the decision to take an unethical shot, mistakes do happen, it's life, if it helps it helps


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I think the FOB is the best idea so far. The only problem is not every one uses a drop-away rest so for those that don't, you'd have to come up with another method. Maybe design an FOB that more closely resembles regular fletching...or quick fletch. (oh, that would actually work)

The quick fletch- make it work the same way FOB's do. Then you can work on any rest...your antenna would be imbedded into the fletching and wrap.

The only problem with SAT is the GPS unit that it takes to be usable...they need to be seen by the Sat. I've been in areas that GPS just isn't available due to the coverage. That said, at least you could have a last entry point. But you don't really need a SAT for that. You could simply have 2-way communication between the transducer and your RX. And, if the Transducer was actually a bi-directional antenna setup with an electronic compass, you could have a hand unit that didn't require any sat info...just load in your co-ordinates, you could have a phone patch to the hand held, just an adapter for you phone etc.

there are really a number of ways to make this work out...just need to think outside the box, when you reach a problem/issue- simply work around it....hence being an engineer.


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## connor_93 (Jul 24, 2008)

Veni Vidi Vici said:


> Here's one solution .... ILLUMANIGHT
> 
> No idea if it actually works or not ....


Spook Spann uses it, its gotta work...


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## booppr (Nov 24, 2006)

Fury, you would still have to have a complete or close to complete pass through for the fob to attach to the deer. And you don't like my satellite image "flip book"  just kidding!!!


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## jdoc (Jul 31, 2012)

Gunner7800 said:


> What about something like a FOB? Put barbs on it that will attach to the animal. When the shot is made the arrow can detach from the FOB and pass through while the FOB stays attached to the animal giving off a signal or a ping return like an rf tag.


This is what i was talking about, but use the nock with the rf tag in the shaft in front of the nock so it gets pulled inside.


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## AustinSQD (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses and input! We are just about done with the research stage of this project and are going to start brainstorming ideas tomorrow. When we get it down to what we believe is the top 5 ideas we will post them on here and see what you all think. 

Thanks,
AustinSQD


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Cool, keep us posted.

Remember, you can't have your antenna inside the shaft...CF shields RF.


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## fullfletched (Feb 6, 2012)

this is used with the string tracking device, but i would think it would be ideal for this idea? I think it's a great idea, and we all know that stuff happens out there, no matter how much you've practiced, how close you are, etc.... those that don't agree are ignorant, imho! Good luck with it!


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## Speed2Max (Feb 15, 2009)

would 15/2 spectra fishing line(100yds) stuffed inside arrow conected to a fobb work???? if you could find the string your deer should only be another 100yds.I know it would probaly get tangeled up but an idea??? my way of marking post LOL


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## fullfletched (Feb 6, 2012)

fullfletched said:


> View attachment 1541737
> 
> 
> this is used with the string tracking device, but i would think it would be ideal for this idea? I think it's a great idea, and we all know that stuff happens out there, no matter how much you've practiced, how close you are, etc.... those that don't agree are ignorant, imho! Good luck with it!


Plus, wouldn't need a pass through, which most low blood, hard tracking situations are, yes?


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

Here's my 2 cents from an engineering and archery pov:
-Make sure it is reliable in thick cover (woods, swamps, etc)
-It needs to be waterproof/resistant
-With today's bows and the speeds/KE that they generate, many arrows simply pass through the deer, even on bad shots (gut shots are generally the most common and don't have any hard objects (bone/cartilage) to stop them). You would need to design something that would attach itself to the animal separately from the arrow for best results (I won't pay $50 to find a $10 arrow and not a deer)
-It has to be under 25 grains, ideally under 20. That way, hunters who normally shoot 125 gr tips can shoot 100 and people who shoot 100 can shoot 80...etc etc
-It needs to be secure but easy to remove (broken arrow, swap battery, etc)
-Make sure it doesn't affect arrow flight/tuneability

By far the biggest issue I see is the arrow and tracker passing through the animal. If you can find away around that, everything else is pretty simple


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## AustinSQD (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks again for all the input! We are going on Chrismas break and won't be back in school until January 3rd. We are just finishing the last 2 of our concept proposals, then we just have to pick which one we want to pursue.we will then start on the drawings and 3d models of the product.


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## Dakota6gun (Nov 27, 2007)

Veni Vidi Vici said:


> @Dakota6gun: ILLUMANIGHT claims to not affect arrow flight. Did you find that to be the case?


I was on my knees in the woods at about 16 yards. The arrow hit exactly where I was aiming. That was the only time I used it. At short ranges, I'd suggest that is true.


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