# Will spot shotting benefit one's 3D game?



## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

Spots taught me how to cuss like a real man ! 



Lots to be learned about your self and form from controled enviroment shooting - form , focus , tune ..... ..... ....


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## Ninja of Kaos (Sep 21, 2012)

dua lam pa said:


> Spots taught me how to cuss like a real man !


Isn't that the truth! lol


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Absolutely, spots are a great way to really see the truth about your firing of the release and your mental approach to shooting. We can all hit a x at 20 yards but having the fundamentals of good form and mental issues allow you to shoot hundreds of them in a row without missing.

For me I am now able to go to weeks of 3d shoots sometimes without a poor shot that results in a 5 or even a 8, this allows me to concentrate on picking the right yardage and making sure that I am aiming at the 12 ring.


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## rpmg (Jun 11, 2014)

I am new to this. Have only shot 3, 3D tournaments so far. Can you define Spot shooting?

Thanks

Robert


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

5 spot or Vegas face targets shoot at 20 yards, typically indoors.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

IMO, any shooting will help no matter what the target. All practice is good for all types of shooting as long as you're making good shots and not just fling arrows down range. The more quality shots you make the better you'll get.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I've always said,..."spots, is where you learn how to shoot your bow".


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## ElMuchoHombre (Aug 17, 2013)

ron w said:


> I've always said,..."spots, is where you learn how to shoot your bow".


Ain't that the truth. Nothing will humble a previously self identified "good shooter" like trying to clean a Vegas face. 

Having a bad day? Vegas face don't care…


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## wolf44 (Mar 31, 2009)

Labs said:


> 5 spot or Vegas face targets shoot at 20 yards, typically indoors.


what is field? fita?


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

wolf44 said:


> what is field? fita?


Do a search on them and you will get the specifics. Field is shout on a course similar to 3D but the shots range from 20' to 80 yards and are all marked at a black and white target face. Fita has several different disciplines depending on equipment and shoot. Fita is a lot of arrows and very mentally demanding. For compounds it is usually 144 arrows at 50 meters for a ranking round then a final four type of head to head shoot off till only one is left standing


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

sharkred7 said:


> Do a search on them and you will get the specifics. Field is shout on a course similar to 3D but the shots range from 20' to 80 yards and are all marked at a black and white target face. Fita has several different disciplines depending on equipment and shoot. Fita is a lot of arrows and very mentally demanding. For compounds it is usually 144 arrows at 50 meters for a ranking round then a final four type of head to head shoot off till only one is left standing


I think you miss read what Wolf44 was asking lol


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Dan I think it's more about the pure and exacting nature of indoors that they are getting at- go shoot 30 good shots, don't have to judge cut, or wind, or have rain, etc... Just put your dot in the middle and don't miss


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

wolf44 said:


> what is field? fita?


Agreed!! I feel field and fita games are like indoor spots on steroids when it comes to testing your form/execution/mental game. You not only have to have it together for over a hundred arrows, you also have to contend with the terrain and environmental elements while doing it.


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## wolf44 (Mar 31, 2009)

My question was more along the lines of you said spot shooting was 20 yds inside. I was interested to know what you considered field and fita. You're still shooting at spots, but it isn't just 20yds and it's not inside. 

IMO yes all spot shooting definitely makes you better at 3d. Ithere are no excuses, here's the distance, here's where you have to hit, make the shot. I only shot field leading up to London and metropolis this year, I didn't fair too bad


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

Thanks for all the replies...spots have always frustrated me in the past and I've told myself it's OK, I'm a 3D shooter knowing deep down this was just an excuse. After the Classic and hunting season my plan is to work on spots to better develop my mental game and fine tune my shot process. I have to believe this will help me in the long run as long as I stay with quality shooting and not just "flinging" arrows like someone mentioned. Any training or practice routines that you have found helped you? Advice on this is appreciated...thanks all!! 
Labs


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## wolf44 (Mar 31, 2009)

No "routine" will make you a better shooter. Determine what is holding you back and work on that. Reinforce the strong parts of your game and keep everything positive


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## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

Spot shooting 
Indoors or out 
It's still spot shooting.
Knowing the yardage, perfecting the form, executing, 
Indoors or out all these same attributes come around 
Indoor spot shooting be it leagues or tournaments over the winter.
Keeps you in shape, gives you the opportunity to study your form, gives opportunity to super tune your equipment.
But most importantly spot shooting is about comradery!
I feel the spot shooters are a better class of Archer, not necessarily better shooters, but better class of people then I meet at things like bass fishing tournaments. 
I'd say because we're all shooting against ourselves, but willing to help others succeed!


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## bowtech37 (Feb 2, 2010)

I feel spots helps me take my game to another level in 3d. I think its the best mental practice and helps so much with picking a spot and learning how to aim properly.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

For me, shooting spots gave insight to form and do-it-the-same-way-each-and-every time. I don't see how spots gave to "picking-a-spot" for 3D as the spot for spots is right there. If anything, it gave for me let the pin stop before getting into execution. Other than this I quit competing in spots, won't even Sub for league shooting.

At the shop I put my foot down and wouldn't allow a league to go more than 5 weeks. Die hard league shooters and die hard NFAA spot shooters are a pain. League shooters want 10 and 11 weeks when more than half have dropped out by week 5 or 6.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

I do not think target shooting will improve anyones 3D game over intermediate at best. I think what makes people good at one, makes them bad at the other.

I see 3D as a great place to pick up shooting troubles and increase stress. I do not think that target shooting and 3D are close enough to the same to be even mentioned together. I also think that without the actual spot that target shooters have difficulty and with a spot 3D people have difficulty. I do not in any way think the two are intertwined in any way.

Hockey and figure skating are both played on ice. I do not think figure skating would help hockey players other than helping them learn to skate. 

Blue X


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Look at all the top 3d shooters also shoot indoor. Makes your shot repeatable. I shot my best 3d when I was shooting my best indoor.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

if you're loosing points to poor yardage estimation, working on your shot , obviously won't help, but if you're having trouble executing, spots is where execution has to be the main character and it has to be strong, reliable and repeatable. spots will help that if you work on it seriously and do the right drills for the specific problem you're having. that is where most guys don't seem to now what to do. if your problem is target related, not being able to engage the release execution when you are in front of the target, do the short yardage drills in front of a target, if you're having problems getting the shot to physically leave the bow, ie., your release execution won't run or is taking too long,.... get in front of the blind/blank bale.
which ever it is, it should be followed up with some short yardage drills in front of a target to apply what was just worked on to the actual shot. doing one with out the other, or not in the right order, will do nothing for your problem. 
many times, it's learning the application that is causing the problem. we practice that sub conscious release execution, but don't teach our shot process how to apply it to the shot.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Labs, I have some shooting sessions that I really enjoy when shooting indoor that you may enjoy. Just pm me with your email.


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

Blue X said:


> I do not think target shooting will improve anyones 3D game over intermediate at best. I think what makes people good at one, makes them bad at the other.
> 
> I see 3D as a great place to pick up shooting troubles and increase stress. I do not think that target shooting and 3D are close enough to the same to be even mentioned together. I also think that without the actual spot that target shooters have difficulty and with a spot 3D people have difficulty. I do not in any way think the two are intertwined in any way.
> 
> ...


To some degree I have to agree. I would have trouble sending the arrow into a 3-D target because of my OCD. I wanted a specific dot to aim at. On the flip side it helped my mental game to learn to relax and create an aim point with my mind. Going the other way I have a good Buddy who was out States 3-D Champion at one point. I got him into shooting dots with me and that is the year he won. He will openly admit that shooting dots forced him to refine his form and shooting which helped him win the title.

They are indeed two very different disciplines but they can both teach skills that are used in the other.


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## CarbonWarrior (Apr 12, 2014)

While I think we can all agree that opinions may vary... I think there's an element of the sport in each discipline that can be carried over to the others. In your case, I am of the belief that becoming a proficient spot-shooter CAN help you with your 3D game. Can you focus on the 10-ring? More importantly... can you focus on the X that's IN the 10 ring? And, can you hit it consistently? If you can, I think that you've got the skill that can be ported over to 3D. Now... will this guarantee success? Hmmm, can you judge distance? To within 2-3 yards? Can you shoot 3rd axis variable shots? Can you compensate for atmospheric variances? Do you have a good enough set of binoculars to be able to see that elusive 11/12/14 (depending on target type and scoring system) ring? If you've answered all of these questions with a yes, or at least most... I think shooting spot could be a GREAT way to hone your skill. Because, at the end of the day... it's all just a target, right? Feel free to agree or disagree... but, this is all just my opinion... and has worked pretty well for me.

Kurt


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Carbon, I don't think the majority here disagrees with spot shooting improving your game, but 3D shooting a target you can't see the point zone when aiming with a bow. You learn the target, use something on the target to give you where it should be. 4X lens and some targets I can't see the 12 ring even at 20 and 25 yards - some targets. ASA 12 rings, McKenzie ASA competition targets, are 1 1/2" in diameter. Bigger targets like the caribou, elk and buffalo are larger, but even then conditions just so and that 12 ring can't be seen or is hard to see.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

it's really not about being able to aim at a spot. ....
spot shooting helps by developing execution because it is the most important element of a good spot shot. that said, without a reliable and repeatable execution , you won't get far in either genre. spots just has the shot frequency that, if taken seriously, has more opportunity to develop good habits, where they count most.


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## RC-Los17 (Mar 16, 2014)

I def believe spots helps your game big time. I know a lot of guys that just wont "punch Paper" and they are the guys switching up releases and making this change etc etc. I use spots to get my shot execution where I want it form and repetition is what I mainly do it for and at the end of the day anything competitive I like so its fun to shoot leagues and trash talk a little.. Its like working out I love chest days, tricep days, shoulders etc etc hate Bicep day but I know I have to throw it in there to have a well rounded workout. Spots is my throw in for a well rounded shooter..


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

My two cents closest thing to 3d at shorter distances is FITA shooting because of the tighter gradations on the face and the need to be very accurate with each arrow without forever to shoot.

Shooting on faces is really only beneficial for people so sharp they tag their own arrows. If you score 2s on NFAA or 5 or below FITA some arrows, you are throwing that away shooting a competitive multispot.

I don't think multispot shooting helps you hit one 3d target with one arrow. I do however think that if you shot one small face for the whole end, that might train you to sharpen up. I shoot a NFAA indoor for outdoor practices at 40-50 and when I go to the 122 cm target for real, it feels like shooting in the ocean.

But I think shooting a multispot more verifies quality than produces it.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

Start at 12-15 yards and "work" my way out to 20 yards??? Opinions on this, both the good and the bad...thanks. If this has been discussed before I apologize...thanks


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Labs said:


> Start at 12-15 yards and "work" my way out to 20 yards??? Opinions on this, both the good and the bad...thanks. If this has been discussed before I apologize...thanks




start up close and shoot until the shots flow- you aren't fighting to put arrows in the middle, the release is breaking clean, groups and float is how it should be. At this point move back 2 yds and do the same thing; shoot until the shots feel good and things are working. Keep working and shooting your way back moving only as the shots are feeling good and things are working.... don't move after xxxx number of arrows, or xx number of games, move back when things are working and shots are feeling good consistently.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

10 yards is a good starting point and where I return to test new equipment and form. But once you get a hang of 10, start moving back. 15-20 is where you start having to shoot right to be accurate. At 10 you are just popping arrows quickly into a bale. You can hide all sorts of form issues and just plink the target from practice. But at 15 or 20 you start to see, am I expanding or collapsing on release, do I torque, etc.

I agree with above advice in terms of "when," you should gain command of a distance before moving back. Group in the middle 2-3 rings of a NFAA, colors of a FITA. If you're too all over to do that, you still could use work at the distance. Don't get me wrong, it's fun some times to see how far you can go.

If you want to compete, to shoot indoor, 20 yards, 3d/field dozens of yards, 900 round up to 60m, there are 70m competitions and beyond. If you want to compete you might occasionally have a short field or 3d target but you need to be able to shoot pretty far, so keep building.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

For me the most important thing about spots was shooting with Sam Woltius, I knew Sam and that he was a good shooter but I was winning a bunch of local shoots and thought I was going to compete with him at a local indoor shoot. I really did go to my first league night expecting to win the league, holy hell by the end of the night winning was the last thing on my mind. Sam had shot for a hour warming up and he literally shot the same 5 holes in the target for a hour straight, then he shot a 300 60x to win the league and then he asked me to stay after for a while and shoot a vegas round and I think he shot a 300 28x round. I think that I shot a pretty normal 300 50x 5-spot round and for the next 2 years I was on my journey to become a hinge shooter, to see a real pro indoor guy do his thing is something special and sam is also the known 50 shooter of the year again this year with multiple wins this season.

You just have to get to your local indoor league because guys like sam are around, in missouri we have Richard Potter around Moberly. We have Sam around the Mountain grove springfield area, We have Wolf44 in the St louis area and we have Nashan Thompson in the kansas City area. All of these guys are mixing it up at the national level and are good guys to learn from, all of my coaching here on archery talk has originated from becoming a friend of Sam's. I got to travel with him to some national shoots and on those shoots we had a few conversations that sent me on my way to becoming a hinge shooter and coach.


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## DenCMSC (Jul 30, 2007)

To be honest, shooting indoor spots and outdoor field/hunter has hindered my ability to shoot unmarked 3D and given me a slight disadvantage in marked 3D.

Allow me to explain. For many years, I didn't shoot "spots". I was all about 3D and hunting. I learned all the rings on McKenzie and Rinehart animals. I learned to judge distance very well. I flat refused to shoot known distance 3D, I was a "purist". That said, my shot sequence was not so good and my execution was worse. I shot very well on 3D and live animals, but all my flaws could not be hidden when I did decide to give "indoors" a try.

Indoor spots forced me to develop a shot sequence, to execute precisely the same each and every arrow. Field/hunter made me a better overall archer by forcing me to shoot distances consistently out of my comfort zone. They made me a better archer, overall. However, now when I shoot 3D, I am searching for the "spot", that visual reference known to all as the "X"....A mind game, sure. But, that has how it has effected me, at least in the short term.


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