# SS Pro class is actually in effect now.



## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

I was just informed that when the directors voted on the age change,that the wording in the minutes on this Agenda item said....All divisions.... it did not say Except the Pro division. There maybe a clarification needed farther down the line but as it states now it should be eligible for any Sec or Nat tournament. Maybe state level depending on when they decided to introduce the changes.Dont take this as gospel,Im just passing the info that was told to me.If you have access to the minutes you might want to take a look,to verify.


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Yep...pretty much how the MAA (Michigan) is interpreted the new ruling...


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Hey guys...

I dont agree, 
(See page 45 NFAA CBL) For Pro Division, (Sectionals and Nationals)

It lists only Pro and Senior Pro 

States my allow other designations but that is a state by state basis as each one has their own CBL and can kind of do what they like. In fact this is probably a great opportunity to have the independent states do that and track it to see if it's successful. It would make it much easier to get through as a National Rule change in the future.

Respectfully
Chuck


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

Thats why I said dont take it as Gospel,and that clarification might be in order.Dont shoot the messenger,LOL


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

FV Chuck said:


> Hey guys...
> 
> I dont agree,
> (See page 45 NFAA CBL) For Pro Division, (Sectionals and Nationals)
> ...


Chuck can you shoot me an E Mail of that page? thanks .


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Page 45 does state the Divisions for Nationals and Sectionals...
However, Arcticle 3 on page 34 details the Divisions of Competition...in section C...no listing excluding the Pros., thus the need for the Directors to clarify when next they meet...two different pages which allow for two different interpretations.


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

After further review,hahaha. I see that on page 45, section H. It says the two Pro divisions." Pro and Pro Senior ". Then on the amatuer side it has the Silver Senior along with the rest of the classes.So Im sorry Randall ,Im going to have to over rule you on this one. Nice try though.But it does need clarification on that other page,I do agree there. Don


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

blueglide1 said:


> Thats why I said dont take it as Gospel,and that clarification might be in order.Dont shoot the messenger,LOL


Lol...no worries Don. I really was trying to come across nice and supoortive. Truly I was


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Hmm, I agree with what your saying Don, however this logic can only stands if we as Pros are another separate section of the NFAA. Last I looked the Pro division is just that, simply another division of archers paying more money to play.....and thus the reason that the Article 3 "C" section can come into play...irrespective of which page you go by..it needs to be worded correctly


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Too bad this wasnt hashed out beforehand. .. 

All agenda items for the meeting had to be submitted by the 30th of Sept.

I was told we have nothing in the queue for 2014. :/


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Hahahahahaha It will be a rule for at least a year then!!! HILARIOUS! Wait....what? The Pro class has zero agenda items submitted??? and the deadline has passed? Is this true Randal?


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Hey Greg...guess what...we "the Pro's" had nothing to deliver...seems everyone is happy with what we have in place, oh the bliss ;>)


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

I definitly would like to see some clarification between the two pages so we can clear this up though.Off setting penalties,no flag, well it is football season after all,LOL


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Are you serious Randal? OK...i guess?


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

i was told by one of the NFAA director`s that the silver senior pro division class was going to be put on the agenda this year 2013, is there a NFAA director that could post on here and please give us a answer or an update on the silver senior pro division ?thank you,Pete53


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

here we go again. 
You can have a broad ruling for the div., but how ever when it specifically references a div on what is allowed, that is for that div only. 
It is the same for the the arrow need only to touch the line for the higher score, how ever for the animal round, it specifically states that you must cut thru the hair or feather line for the higher value. The hair line is the area outside of the carcass line. 
The officials at the last years nationals in Pa. ruled a protest absolutely incorrect even after they were shown the chapter & verse. 
The situation was that an arrow cut into the hair line but did not touch the carcass line . I ruled it no score, but it got over turned.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

FV Chuck said:


> Too bad this wasnt hashed out beforehand. ..
> 
> All agenda items for the meeting had to be submitted by the 30th of Sept.
> 
> I was told we have nothing in the queue for 2014. :/


 Chuck , don't worry there will be 15 signature items


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

brtesite said:


> Chuck , don't worry there will be 15 signature items


That is another issue that belongs in the "What is wrong with the NFAA" thread. How can any Director vote on a 15 signature item that is presented at the meeting, and represent their state members, without the state members having the opportunity to know what it is their Director is being asked to vote on and to provide comment to their Director. Absent an emergency, which I haven't seen related to a 15 signature item (IMO) for several years, they shouldn't exist IMO. Defies the 'logic' that bottom-up governing of the NFAA is supposed to be. No matter how 'good' the idea is...

Back to the topic...I think it's fairly clear, and that the current Const. and BLs do not allow for a SS Pro Division.


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

blueglide1 said:


> I definitly would like to see some clarification between the two pages so we can clear this up though.Off setting penalties,no flag, well it is football season after all,LOL


...it has potential to get corrected, but it will require some procedural wrangling at the meeting. 

The process will be this:

- Someone has to write it up. (Pro Chair) or other BOD member as an agenda item. You have to ID what the problem is, what the solution is etc... there is a formal form for it. 
- It will have to be presented as a signature item at the meeting.
- A signature item is where you literally politic the room (work the crowd) for signatures to "bring it to the floor" this has to be done when there is no other business going on. Break times, dinner, lunch etc..or work on it for a month or so beforehand so it can be done quick and easy at the meeting.

It'll be the same process for any of the other changes that we spoke about and wanted to make at the meetings in Louisville or Darrington.... but apparently were not acted on. hwell:

C


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Pete

I asked, there was no agenda item for a Silver Senior Pro Division submitted.
FWIW... all submissions come from Directors, to their Councilperson, or from the Pro Chair.

It will have to be a 15 Signature item presented at the meeting for a vote.
What that means is you'll have to get a director to write it up (or the Pro Chair since it's a Pro matter.. that would be Randall.
Then that person will have to get 15 people to sign off on it on the spot for it to come to the floor for a vote.

C


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Chuck- Apparently you missed the memo about how "We Pro's" are in a state of total "Bliss"....Looks like we all missed that memo? I have yet to even see the minutes from the pro meeting, planning meeting report....or any communication for that matter? Whats the best way to kill momentum......DO NOTHING! #missionaccomplished


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

bigGP said:


> Chuck- Apparently you missed the memo about how "We Pro's" are in a state of total "Bliss"....Looks like we all missed that memo? I have yet to even see the minutes from the pro meeting, planning meeting report....or any communication for that matter? Whats the best way to kill momentum......DO NOTHING! #missionaccomplished


Well Greg, what would you like me to do...I'm sorry you didn't get to have a say, but then again, you would have to had been at the last meeting. As Chuck has pointed out..Directors are responsible for for agenda items, or the Pro Chair..yeh me...Well as it so happens, I have not had any requests nor proposals submitted...so what would you have me do.
The above topic, I don't think will even see the light of a submission, nor that it should even need to be...I am of the understanding that a Director is going to bring it up for discussion, with the intent as to get clarification.
Greg, perhaps you should liaise with your State rep and have him submit your suggestions,requests and, or your grievances...after all, that would be the correct procedure to follow.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

thanks for letting me know that the director who was suppose to bring this silver senior pro division up at the meeting, kinda did lie to me.i do hope he reads this SHAME ON HIM ! now i wonder why i joined the NFAA again ? Pete53


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Pete53 said:


> thanks for letting me know that the director who was suppose to bring this silver senior pro division up at the meeting, kinda did lie to me.i do hope he reads this SHAME ON HIM ! now i wonder why i joined the NFAA again ? Pete53


Sorry Pete... Hopefully one of the other guys can pick this up for you


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

aussiearcher said:


> Greg, perhaps you should liaise with your State rep and have him submit your suggestions,requests and, or your grievances...after all, that would be the correct procedure to follow.


.... actually if it's a Pro thing. It's you. not the state rep. Not every state is required or allows a State Pro rep (per individual state constitutions and by-laws)...


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

FV Chuck said:


> .... actually if it's a Pro thing. It's you. not the state rep. Not every state is required or allows a State Pro rep (per individual state constitutions and by-laws)...


Was unaware of the State situation Chuck...thanks for the headsup...maybe something to work towards...

So, there you have it Greg...please, submit you ideas, concerns, or whatever you would like me to represent you in...I am certainly willing to channel anything you have to offer..You have offered great insight in the past..can't for the life of me, see why you wouldn't continue to do so....thanks for being there.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Randal, 

GREAT to hear from you.......finally. I have no grievances nor do i need to liaise with any directors regarding Pro issues that have yet to be properly vetted within the pro group.....Maybe someone can explain why that is needed? ....But you apparently don't feel you need to learn any of the NFAA/PC in's & out's and can just blabber talk it away or blame someone else? I certainly wish you luck with your plan to sit back and wait for someone else to get proactive for you. All i have to go on is the participation, communication and performance of your predecessors in pro matters and the NFAA itself. It is apparent that you have not only missed meetings every other PC attended....but you seem to be hiding behind your interpretation (Incorrectly) of certain protocols to justify your lack of communication, participation through absenteeism in addition to a complete lack of attention to our progress and the organization as a whole? All of your hyperbole about better communication and the rest has resulted in what??? a virus laden epic fail of a website to facilitate better communication that didn't even work? no minutes from the Pro meeting (That EVERY other PC seems to have had no problems with? what is so secret about the meeting you cant share with the other 200+ of us?), no update regarding WAF changes, zero group emails, missed deadlines and on and on and on..... 

As for me "Being there".....what would you like ME to do Randal?......Talk about "Gross misrepresentation" maybe? Write a secret letter to the board about the Pro Chair being "Out of order" in an attempt to undermine Pro division progress and the PC in particular? Maybe you can send me the letter YOU wrote last year? 

This topic is irrelevant at this point.....deadlines have passed, momentum is being lost daily and i am curious to see how long you continue to sit back and wait for someone else to explain how things work so you can get involved. Either way it is of no concern to me anymore.........

Cheers


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Well greg..now that we know how you really feel...feel free, at anytime to vent about my "lack of everything" pretty much sums up your words. 
After all, this is Archery Talk...it's almost mandatory to flameout...hey...don't forget to bring this up...next time we meet face to face...These a chance i'll need a refresher.


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Oh..BTW..go to the "ill fated" website...The minutes from the last Pro meeting..were posted there..long ago


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

I tried to register on that site many times to no avail......no need to try again. Not everyone is or will be on there and for that to be your only effort to communicate with the group shows little effort.

I call them like i see them....and like they are. Every PC has done what they could to further the class......If we where so "Grossly misrepresented"... to the point you wrote a letter that did damage to our cause....then why didn't you move quickly to right the wrongs you felt so strongly about? hmmmmmmmm

There will be no need for you and i to discuss these issues when we see each other Randal. Please try to start getting involved in our organization and class in a non destructive way........enjoy all the free trips.

See you on the line

Cheers


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

aussiearcher said:


> Hey Greg...guess what...we "the Pro's" had nothing to deliver...seems everyone is happy with what we have in place, oh the bliss ;>)


Perhaps you should read the min's again....

I counted no less than 4 and potentially 6 actionable items that were discussed at the meeting.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

Chuck thanks for letting me know that the silver senior pro division class was not on the agenda .now for the other state directors who have been reading all these post and for the one director who said he was bringing up this division issue ,what are you NFAA directors doing ?


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Chuck...the suggestions offered at the meeting were exactly that, suggestions of issues to follow up on...no where did anyone move a motion, nor did those present ask for anything to be include anything as an agenda item...


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

If someone as respected as Duane Price brings up a change to the Nationals format you didnt think it was worth asking the entire pro division? 

Really?

Ok. ill use your method. What steps have you taken to follow up on them then? Because its been more then 2 months and I havent seen a post, a thread, a letter, an email or an article from you on any of it. Save aside the one piece you started the other day on management on your forum.

We have completely missed the opportunity for the next meeting. 

Im trying my dead level best to not be the bitter ex chair. No matter what I say or do its going to come across that way. But we really missed here.


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

Chuck...if you have something to say to me...I suggest you call me...this open forum is NOT the place to addess these issues.


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Pete did you contact your state Director for an agenda item


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

aussiearcher said:


> Chuck...if you have something to say to me...I suggest you call me...this open forum is NOT the place to addess these issues.


Here or any other forum is fine..but thanks
There isnt anything I need to say privately that cant be said publicly.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

chuck, i thank you for being open on these NFAA issues and policies,as a member of this organization there should never be any secret policy meetings ! the NFAA is a non-profit club with many members and all members should be able to read or hear whats going on always on club issues. i do hope all directors feel the same way in a free country.Pete53


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