# Advice to Reach Next Level



## so.outdoorsman (Sep 14, 2021)

Hope everyone is doing well! 

I have a couple of questions that I am looking for advice on to reach the next level in my archery game. I got a target bow earlier this year and decided to really focus on becoming a good archer so I can compete at a high level. I am currently shooting low 290's with 30-40 X's in NFAA indoor 300 rounds using a 5 spot target during tournaments. My best practice round was a 296. I feel like the two points below is what is keeping me from shooting a 300. 

I am struggling to let down on shots and re-group. I tend to force it once I am at full draw. Any advice on getting over this mental block? 
How long do you remain at full draw? I tend to rush my shot's once I start floating on the target. I made a point last night to take extra time and try to settle the pin down a bit more before executing the shot and it seemed to help.
Thanks in advance!

Chris


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## MJAndrews (Sep 2, 2012)

I can tell you what I've been advised by my coach to do as far as let downs. I have the same issue, once the bow is up I feel I have to shoot. Thinking it over I realized that I have a fear of let downs for several reasons. What he advised me to do was to make letting down a regular part of my practice regimen. Makes sense, now if I could just bring myself to do it....


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## RJH1 (Jul 30, 2015)

I'm not a pro, but here's what I found works for me.
1 let that s*** down!! If it ain't right don't shoot it LOL. I've struggled with the same thing thinking I can force a shot, but anytime I let down and redraw the shot comes real easy, so Don't Force it

2 I tend to shoot fairly quick, once I'm settled in the shots probably going to go within a couple of seconds, if I'm holding five or six that's probably too long. Everybody has their own shot sequence though. What I found is once I see the correct shot, I let it go. If I hold too long I'll start bobbling, then I might have to go back to rule number one up there. Good luck 



And remember even in practice if the shots not good Don't let it go. That goes back to letting down which for some reason is crazy hard for us to do sometimes


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## so.outdoorsman (Sep 14, 2021)

MJAndrews said:


> I can tell you what I've been advised by my coach to do as far as let downs. I have the same issue, once the bow is up I feel I have to shoot. Thinking it over I realized that I have a fear of let downs for several reasons. What he advised me to do was to make letting down a regular part of my practice regimen. Makes sense, now if I could just bring myself to do it....


That's a good idea. I'll start implementing that into practice.


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## so.outdoorsman (Sep 14, 2021)

RJH1 said:


> I'm not a pro, but here's what I found works for me.
> 1 let that s*** down!! If it ain't right don't shoot it LOL. I've struggled with the same thing thinking I can force a shot, but anytime I let down and redraw the shot comes real easy, so Don't Force it
> 
> 2 I tend to shoot fairly quick, once I'm settled in the shots probably going to go within a couple of seconds, if I'm holding five or six that's probably too long. Everybody has their own shot sequence though. What I found is once I see the correct shot, I let it go. If I hold too long I'll start bobbling, then I might have to go back to rule number one up there. Good luck
> ...


LOL, i'm glad i'm not the only one!


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## toxy2020 (Jan 24, 2021)

My suggestion for what its worth Is to find a good coach or read up, both Steve Ruiz and Alistair Whittingham have resources on line, on a personal level my suggestion would be focus on execution and shot timing not aiming, the tighter the shot timing generally the tighter the groups, if you are holding too long then there is probably an execution issue, my bad shots are almost always the long holds, even the aimed somewhere near and went off by accident shots are better (avoid like the plague as a strategy as you probably wont be able to replicate the effect consistently)


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## frank4 (Apr 28, 2021)

One thing that has helped me a ton with indoor is aiming drills. I’ll always shoot my best scores right after I take a week or so off and just do aiming drills all week and blank bale. Feels like my pin just sits there and my execution goes perfect.

Your bad shots will almost always come when you should have let down and you knew it.

I don’t think how fast or slow your shot goes off necessarily matters, it just matters that it’s the same every time. There will be a few seconds in your shot where you aim the best and you want your execution to match that time, so your shot goes off in the best window. It takes some figuring out but it’ll definitely make you better


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## Bikeman CU (Nov 27, 2005)

When you set your bow up did you adjust for the least amount of movement or did you start tuning for best arrow flight? Adjust the tiller and nocking point position for the best hold, least amount of movement. These adjustments will change how the bow sits in your hand, it adjusts the balance of the bow. No need to even shoot an arrow while doing these adjustments. You can also try different stabilizer combinations. Your shoulder positions also effects your ability to aim with little movement. If your shoulders are not in the correct position they will move during the shot, causing movement in your aiming.
Yes, it's OK to move your limb bolts for tiller adjustment, they do not need to be the same, they are adjustable for a reason. Try a 1/4 or 1/2 turn on top or bottom bolt and see how it aims. Try different combinations.
Focus on the target and start your shot sequence, if you think " Now, shoot, go, it's moving too much" let down, it's too late. Example- If you want to walk across the room to turn on a light switch are you looking at your feet as you walk or are you looking at the light switch, it's about focus. The walking is automatic, just as your shot sequence should be.
Shoot ONE arrow at a time, DO NOT think about your total score. Shoot in the PRESENT not the future.
Everybody starts out not shooting perfect scores. 
A good book is "Core Archery" by Larry Wise, mental training and back tension. 
You Tube has plenty of information, some good, some questionable. Videos by "Insideout Precision" has some good information, also Paige Pearce, Tim Gillingham and George Ryals.


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## so.outdoorsman (Sep 14, 2021)

Bikeman CU said:


> When you set your bow up did you adjust for the least amount of movement or did you start tuning for best arrow flight? Adjust the tiller and nocking point position for the best hold, least amount of movement. These adjustments will change how the bow sits in your hand, it adjusts the balance of the bow. No need to even shoot an arrow while doing these adjustments. You can also try different stabilizer combinations. Your shoulder positions also effects your ability to aim with little movement. If your shoulders are not in the correct position they will move during the shot, causing movement in your aiming.
> Yes, it's OK to move your limb bolts for tiller adjustment, they do not need to be the same, they are adjustable for a reason. Try a 1/4 or 1/2 turn on top or bottom bolt and see how it aims. Try different combinations.
> Focus on the target and start your shot sequence, if you think " Now, shoot, go, it's moving too much" let down, it's too late. Example- If you want to walk across the room to turn on a light switch are you looking at your feet as you walk or are you looking at the light switch, it's about focus. The walking is automatic, just as your shot sequence should be.
> Shoot ONE arrow at a time, DO NOT think about your total score. Shoot in the PRESENT not the future.
> ...


Thanks for the info! I watched a GRIV seminar video last night and learned my back shoulder is likely too high causing me to float lower on the target. I think that is going to help out a lot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pengu (Jul 28, 2021)

frank4 said:


> Your bad shots will almost always come when you should have let down and you knew it.


For me at least, this is so accurate. Every time I hold for a minute or more and start shaking, my pin is everywhere and I know I should let down. However, if I don't let down and let the shot break instead, my arrows end up going several inches from where I thought I was aiming. I've been training myself to let down more often when I notice that I'm shaking or holding too long compared to my normal shots. Shooting at a blank bale helps too.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Have you done any training on a close bale for score? or just scores at 20yds? A good portion of score hangups can be caused by trying to place arrows in the middle instead of shooting good shots...

As far as the letdowns go; its a hard habit to get into of aborting a shot sequence any time something doesn't feel or look correct. BUT, once you have worked into you shot process that letdowns are okay its nothing different than any other shot. Working on a close bale or blank bale can be a good start; so are working on letdown drills where you purposely let down shots regardless of them being good or bad to get in the habit of it being an okay process to let happen. Addressing each shot as its own game aids in being able to reset after a letdown/bad shot/ marginal shot/etc and execute a good shot subsequently. 


Have you verified correct peep height and draw length? as those can both lead to shot degradation and fatigue during aiming.


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## tj charby (Jan 26, 2011)

so.outdoorsman said:


> Hope everyone is doing well!
> 
> I have a couple of questions that I am looking for advice on to reach the next level in my archery game. I got a target bow earlier this year and decided to really focus on becoming a good archer so I can compete at a high level. I am currently shooting low 290's with 30-40 X's in NFAA indoor 300 rounds using a 5 spot target during tournaments. My best practice round was a 296. I feel like the two points below is what is keeping me from shooting a 300.
> 
> ...


I have the same problem. over time I just forced myself to let down and when you pick it back up you’ll settle the pin on the target and shoot much better. it’s just a matter of knowing the fact that your shot will be better and proving it to yourself.


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## so.outdoorsman (Sep 14, 2021)

N7709K said:


> Have you done any training on a close bale for score? or just scores at 20yds? A good portion of score hangups can be caused by trying to place arrows in the middle instead of shooting good shots...
> 
> As far as the letdowns go; its a hard habit to get into of aborting a shot sequence any time something doesn't feel or look correct. BUT, once you have worked into you shot process that letdowns are okay its nothing different than any other shot. Working on a close bale or blank bale can be a good start; so are working on letdown drills where you purposely let down shots regardless of them being good or bad to get in the habit of it being an okay process to let happen. Addressing each shot as its own game aids in being able to reset after a letdown/bad shot/ marginal shot/etc and execute a good shot subsequently.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info! Setup is all good and I do shoot blank bale. I need to start purposely letting down during practice. I think that will help. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phdromero11 (11 mo ago)

so.outdoorsman said:


> Hope everyone is doing well!
> 
> I have a couple of questions that I am looking for advice on to reach the next level in my archery game. I got a target bow earlier this year and decided to really focus on becoming a good archer so I can compete at a high level. I am currently shooting low 290's with 30-40 X's in NFAA indoor 300 rounds using a 5 spot target during tournaments. My best practice round was a 296. I feel like the two points below is what is keeping me from shooting a 300.
> 
> ...


In my many years shooting in competition, once your mind starts drifting or you start doubting, is always better to let down, is hard to stop being stubborn, but once you get used to it is pretty easy, especially when you don't lose dumb points jaja.

I usually try to keep it around 5/8 seconds at full draw, after that hitting the ten ring becomes elusive


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Do you shoot any close games? or just short range on a blank bale?


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## *SWITCH (Nov 27, 2007)

remember being in a similar position. i kept things simple.

1 - just got to program/force yourself to come down in practice if it's not right. t will become easier and and easier and then become second nature.

2 - Use your float being fully settled as your trigger to release, not the pin being in precisely the right place. obviously it needs to be pretty close indoors.


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## drew_235 (Dec 26, 2021)

N7709K said:


> Do you shoot any close games? or just short range on a blank bale?


What are some examples of close games for indoor training?


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

drew_235 said:


> What are some examples of close games for indoor training?


Close games are just scores shot at close range on a fullsize target. 

The theory behind it is that distance doesn't matter in training; shot execution and shot count are what matters. When shooting close games it takes the mental aspect down to a known result and allows for a shot to develop when you know that you will shoot score "x" instead of trying to shoot score "x". 

Say you want to become a 300 vegas shooter. More often than not there is a "wall" that gets hit when the scores creep up and get to the high 290's; where the skills are there to shoot 300's but something gets in the way. That mental hurdle of shooting "300's" is usually the hardest part; thats where the close games come in as a training aid. 5yds, 7yds, 10yds, etc it doesn't matter, 19yds even; just as long as its under 20yds. Hang a target, sight in shoot a game for score. Then do it again, and again, and again. Distance does not matter when training for 99.9% of things, each shot gets treated the same and the goal is to shoot a good shot each and every time. Pretty soon a 30x 300 vegas game is the norm in training at close games with groups very tight and all insideout on the "x". At 20yds the same good shots still give good results; the mental approach is now that "I am a 300 shooter" not "I hope I shoot a 300"


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## drew_235 (Dec 26, 2021)

N7709K said:


> Close games are just scores shot at close range on a fullsize target.
> 
> The theory behind it is that distance doesn't matter in training; shot execution and shot count are what matters. When shooting close games it takes the mental aspect down to a known result and allows for a shot to develop when you know that you will shoot score "x" instead of trying to shoot score "x".
> 
> Say you want to become a 300 vegas shooter. More often than not there is a "wall" that gets hit when the scores creep up and get to the high 290's; where the skills are there to shoot 300's but something gets in the way. That mental hurdle of shooting "300's" is usually the hardest part; thats where the close games come in as a training aid. 5yds, 7yds, 10yds, etc it doesn't matter, 19yds even; just as long as its under 20yds. Hang a target, sight in shoot a game for score. Then do it again, and again, and again. Distance does not matter when training for 99.9% of things, each shot gets treated the same and the goal is to shoot a good shot each and every time. Pretty soon a 30x 300 vegas game is the norm in training at close games with groups very tight and all insideout on the "x". At 20yds the same good shots still give good results; the mental approach is now that "I am a 300 shooter" not "I hope I shoot a 300"


Thank you, that was a great explanation. I've been mixing things up with reduced size 5 spot targets at 8 yards on a bag in my basement and some blind bail shooting as well. I can "feel" each shot and whether it was good when I'm shooting the 5 spot, but I haven't quite broken through to being able to diagnose exactly what went wrong when I have a shot that does not feel good. My local club and leagues are all half way through for the season, but I plan to hook up with them as soon as I can.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

drew_235 said:


> Thank you, that was a great explanation. I've been mixing things up with reduced size 5 spot targets at 8 yards on a bag in my basement and some blind bail shooting as well. I can "feel" each shot and whether it was good when I'm shooting the 5 spot, but I haven't quite broken through to being able to diagnose exactly what went wrong when I have a shot that does not feel good. My local club and leagues are all half way through for the season, but I plan to hook up with them as soon as I can.


Something to try is hanging a blank piece of cardboard on your bale and putting some small black dots on it with a sharpie to shoot at (like 3/4" they dont have to be tiny). Shoot at the dots for 15-20 shots each and you'll get a picture of group size when you're shooting for a specific point and not at something for score; black dots work well because they do well replicating the same arrow holes that we get drawn into when shooting for scores. The goal is to shoot all good shots and see the trends of good shots; if shots start hanging up or you try and "place" the arrows in the dot take a break and reset.

groups can give a lot of information to work off of for making corrections


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## toxy2020 (Jan 24, 2021)

A huge part of what separates good archers from less good, is the ability to not shoot shots, the vast majority of us tend to notice that this is going to be a bad shot and shoot it regardless, among other issues with this, if you are noticing that something is wrong/different then you are distracted and NOT in the shot, consequently you are almost certain to shoot a bad shot regardless of whatever had you thinking "this is not right"


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

I'm still trying reach the* first* level after 30 years, much less am I worried about the next level....

But as for letting down, the general idea I follow there is, if I do it (or not) in practice, I'm going to do it (or not) in competition. I've definitely found that to be true with letting down. If I continue to proceed with a shot that my "higher nature" had already told me I should cancel in practice, every time I do that increases the chances that I'll do that in competition. That's just a fancy way of saying it's a simple matter of good quality practice, where I try to make it as much like competition as I can. That includes canceling shots that I know have gone off the rails in practice and being diligent about it.

As for how long do I stay at full draw, that's really a question about rhythm. The short answer about rhythm is don't chase it. Rhythm is simply a function of a well rehearsed shot, and the only way I can get that is just shooting a lot. The more I practice my shot execution, the more regular it'll become and the less it'll be disturbed by conscious intervention, etc. So it's not something you can target specifically and try to make happen this way or that. It'll just be what it is the more your practice and gain regularity in your shot routine.

lee.


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## Hikari (May 15, 2021)

Everyone floats--you can't stop that as it is your bodies reaction to the stress and weight of the bow (your heart beat will also contribute to that). If your float creates anxiety or stress, that is simply going to lead to target panic (which it sounds like you are on the way to develop). Realize the the float is a simply product of the process and you need to shoot the the ambiguity that comes with it.

However, beyond simply training, you could look at what your stabilizers are doing. This article is about Olympic recurve, but it does breakdown good and bad floats and what stabilizers can and cannot do.: 









Stabilizers Balance and Bows Oh My! — Archery Learning Center and Proshop


Stabilizers, balance, and bows - oh my! By George Ryals IV © 2010 Stabilizers, over the last decade or so, have become all about vibration damping. Sales of stabilizers and the perceived quality of a stabilizer are measured by how dead it makes the bow feel. Vibration da




www.archerylearningcenter.com


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