# Form and anchor



## sjanderson117 (Nov 14, 2019)

I was thinking that my DL was too short. I added a half inch and had my wife take a picture of my anchor. Is this too low on my face? Any other issues y’all see?










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## sjanderson117 (Nov 14, 2019)

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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Shoot three fletched arrows, and at LEAST one bareshaft at 20 yards.
All all 4 arrows at the same bullseye.
Take a photo.

REsults will dictate if the new longer draw is a good thing or a bad thing.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

sjanderson117 said:


> I was thinking that my DL was too short. I added a half inch and had my wife take a picture of my anchor. Is this too low on my face? Any other issues y’all see?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1) ADD bow sling immediately. Can be as simple as a loop of paracord.
No bow sling, you HAVE to grab the bow after every shot. No bow sling means wider group size that your true accuracy.

2) Bow hand is no good. Wrist needs to be horizontal. Watch face needs to be parallel to the ground. Serious.
Bow hand needs to look like this.





Groups will tighten up in the horizontal direction, with better bow hand grip position/rotation.


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## Daduate (May 13, 2021)

Your anchor looks great bud . Corner of mouth and nose . 
In regards to what the previous post said . The easiest way to get a great repeatable bow grip is to ( get a bow sling when just starting out not too sure about the tighter groups part but you won’t drop the bow and eases confidence with grip) but stand with your arms straight down at your side as you normally would if standing still. Now raise your draw arm completely up until level with shoulder . Palm should be parallel to the ground perfectly and elbow perpendicular . Now do this without your bow a couple times or as many times as needed to make it a habit. But raise your wrist and move your thumb without moving your elbow to a 45*. Last part is put an ever so slight bend in your elbow to lower your shoulder. Once you can do that in one smooth motion do it with your bow ( please hold on right to the silverback lol ). And that’s it.










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## Johnboy60 (Mar 17, 2021)

Very good advice and pics above for correct bow hand placement. Think of it this way; you're not really gripping your bow, you are pushing against it straight forward towards your target, a nice, strong but relaxed "push". This will help steady your aim and produce a torque free shot. When you shoot, keep your bow hand and fingers relaxed, no need to grab or hold on. The bow sling will help give you confidence to do that. Nice looking bow, is that a PSE Drive?


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## sjanderson117 (Nov 14, 2019)

Johnboy60 said:


> Very good advice and pics above for correct bow hand placement. Think of it this way; you're not really gripping your bow, you are pushing against it straight forward towards your target, a nice, strong but relaxed "push". This will help steady your aim and produce a torque free shot. When you shoot, keep your bow hand and fingers relaxed, no need to grab or hold on. The bow sling will help give you confidence to do that. Nice looking bow, is that a PSE Drive?


I’ve always felt like it sits in my lifeline well but maybe not? I’ll take a picture of the front of my grip as well. It’s a NXT 33. I just thought my front arm was bent a little too much before changing it to this.


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## sjanderson117 (Nov 14, 2019)

nuts&bolts said:


> 1) ADD bow sling immediately. Can be as simple as a loop of paracord.
> No bow sling, you HAVE to grab the bow after every shot. No bow sling means wider group size that your true accuracy.
> 
> 2) Bow hand is no good. Wrist needs to be horizontal. Watch face needs to be parallel to the ground. Serious.
> ...


I didn’t ever think my grip was that bad but now that I look at it, it is a lot more vertical than I thought. Also, my fingers are just resting in a groove in the riser, they aren’t applying any pressure.



.










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## buglingbull509 (Apr 22, 2020)

Looks pretty good. Only small thing I see is that your draw elbow looks a little high. Ideally your draw forearm should be parallel to a line drawn between your shoulder joints. Lengthen the draw by .25-.5" and that elbow will come down to make the forearm parallel with the shoulder line.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

sjanderson117 said:


> I didn’t ever think my grip was that bad but now that I look at it, it is a lot more vertical than I thought. Also, my fingers are just resting in a groove in the riser, they aren’t applying any pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since ALL fingertips are on the vertical groove of the grip/riser, this is bad.
Rotate knuckles to 45 degrees, and get wrist horizontal (watch face parallel to the ground, if wearing a watch)
and LESS of the thumb muscle will ooze past the right edge of the grip
and sideways miss pattern will shrink noticeably.

More like this.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

buglingbull509 said:


> Looks pretty good. Only small thing I see is that your draw elbow looks a little high. Ideally your draw forearm should be parallel to a line drawn between your shoulder joints. Lengthen the draw by .25-.5" and that elbow will come down to make the forearm parallel with the shoulder line.


Nope. Do NOT want forearm parallel to the shoulder line.



Forearm should NOT be parallel to shoulder line.



Forearm NOT parallel to shoulder line, and he can now bust nocks at 30 yards.





Arrow is level for Dudley. Shoulders are level at full draw on Dudley. Elbow (release side) is HIGHER than wrist
for release arm, so this means release forearm is NOT parallel to shoulder line.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

sjanderson117 said:


> I was thinking that my DL was too short. I added a half inch and had my wife take a picture of my anchor. Is this too low on my face? Any other issues y’all see?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When aiming DOWNHILL at the stairs,
lean IN towards the shot, lean IN towards the stairs, or a downhill target,
move tip of nose and move left armpit FORWARDS 1.5-inches, so you look like this.

Will make you more solid on the downhill shots.










The goal is to always keep the bow side armpit at 90 degrees, between rib cage and the left upper arm.
Like this.


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## sjanderson117 (Nov 14, 2019)

nuts&bolts said:


> When aiming DOWNHILL at the stairs,
> lean IN towards the shot, lean IN towards the stairs, or a downhill target,
> move tip of nose and move left armpit FORWARDS 1.5-inches, so you look like this.
> 
> ...


That is something I normally would do. Just shot a TAC event and was only down 2 arrows after two days until I decided to switch to that silverback. I wasn’t originally taking that photo for form so I just kind of tilted a little.


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## sjanderson117 (Nov 14, 2019)

The biggest takeaway is my grip. Something I thought was pretty good. I guess not. 


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## buglingbull509 (Apr 22, 2020)

Gotcha I was told the opposite. Out of curiosity why would you want the release elbow higher than the release hand? Seems like once you start pulling into the shot the high elbow would pull you off target


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

buglingbull509 said:


> Gotcha I was told the opposite. Out of curiosity why would you want the release elbow higher than the release hand? Seems like once you start pulling into the shot the high elbow would pull you off target


So, how to know "good advice" versus "not so good advice"?
Test both ways, and see what gives you tighter groups (release elbow higher than wrist) or (release elbow same height as wrist) or (release elbow below wrist).

Try 60 yards.

So, you are connected to the bow at only 2 points. Bow hand contact with the grip.
Release hand on the release, connected at the d-loop.

So, when you pull on a rope, the rope (line of force) ALWAYS creates a straight line.










Tip of elbow, through CENTER of release wrist, through arrow nock, all the way to the bottom of the palm/wrist. THIS is the line of force, the direction of PULL for most stable full draw posture.

If you drop the release elbow to get release forearm LEVEL,
you just created a TORQUE, cuz the NOCk is ALWAYS higher than the bottom of your wrist,
and you will PULL yourself off target, top of bow will rock BACKWARDS and smack you in the forehead, with Release forearm parallel to the shoulders.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

buglingbull509 said:


> Gotcha I was told the opposite. Out of curiosity why would you want the release elbow higher than the release hand? Seems like once you start pulling into the shot the high elbow would pull you off target


People THINK they are pulling backwards on the arrow.
No.

You are pulling the bowstring, you are pulling away from the bow hand.
So, the line of force through the d-loop, through the release hand wrist, all the way through your forearm
and all the way to the tip of your elbow...

this line of force needs to be the YELLOW line.










With release elbow along the YELLOW line of force, you will have the minimum sight pin float,
with the stabilizer weight (front stick) and with the stabilizer weight (side stick) creating a stab system FOC
that perfectly balances your holding weight.

With LEVEL forearm, you are torquing the bow system BACKWARDS towards your face,
and you will create a vertical bounce to your sight pin float. 

Try both ways, and see what gives you the minimum vertical miss pattern at 60 yards, at 80 yards, and at 100 yards (90 meters).


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## buglingbull509 (Apr 22, 2020)

Makes much more sense now. Thanks for the clarifying


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## Buffalo Hunter (Jan 28, 2005)

I think I read on a Form Check post where Nuts recommended that your draw arm elbow should be at the same height as your ear. Based on that, from your 1st pic your draw elbow is about 1.5"- 2" HIGHER than your ear lobe. Over the long term a high draw elbow will put lots of stress on your draw shoulder and could create fatigue problems...or worse.

I'm no expert, but the 2nd pic seems to indicate that your DL is about 1/4" to LONG based the string crossing BEHIND where your upper lip meets your lower lip. The throat of the nock being BEHIND your eye crease also tells me that you're just a wee bit long in DL.


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## Buffalo Hunter (Jan 28, 2005)

Every time I read a Nuts form comment, I learn something. Many thanks!!


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## sjanderson117 (Nov 14, 2019)

Buffalo Hunter said:


> I think I read on a Form Check post where Nuts recommended that your draw arm elbow should be at the same height as your ear. Based on that, from your 1st pic your draw elbow is about 1.5"- 2" HIGHER than your ear lobe. Over the long term a high draw elbow will put lots of stress on your draw shoulder and could create fatigue problems...or worse.
> 
> I'm no expert, but the 2nd pic seems to indicate that your DL is about 1/4" to LONG based the string crossing BEHIND where your upper lip meets your lower lip. The throat of the nock being BEHIND your eye crease also tells me that you're just a wee bit long in DL.


Well I can only adjust my bow in half inch increments. I can drop it back to 29 and send a picture but I really felt like my front elbow was bent quite a bit. 


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

sjanderson117 said:


> Well I can only adjust my bow in half inch increments. I can drop it back to 29 and send a picture but I really felt like my front elbow was bent quite a bit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


With shorter draw, do NOT bend your elbow.
LEAN FORWARDS, that means move bow side armpit CLOSER to the target,
BEND at the belly button, swing your head CLOSER to the target
and then, no NEED to bend your bow side elbow.



RED t-shirt, leaning WAY WAY backwards, with no bending the elbow.
WHITE t-shirt, not leaning backwards, shorter draw, and still no bending the elbow.


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