# shooting against my arm, breaking bowstring because of the armguard ... what to do



## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

first of all good afternoon everybody.

i just had to run inside because of a thunderstorm while i was practicing. but it seems to me a good time to ask about a lifelong problem i have.

from the beginning when i started to shoot, at the age of 7 (20 years ago), i was shooting against my arm.
at some point that stopped when i started to shoot with a Greenhorn (Belgian Brand) compound.

but after the years, we all ended up shooting Hoyt.

from the beginning i shot Hoyt i've ended up with the same problem, shooting against my arm.

so i have a Contender, 2 UltraElite, with all these bows same problem.

so i wear an armguard. a little plastic one made by Beiter.

the strange thing is, the place it hits my arm. if i hold the bow up (do not pull it) you'll see the spot on my arm is between my string and the riser!!! we know that a string moves further than its stopping point, and that is the place where it hits my arm.

on the armguard there is the logo of Beiter, embedded in the plastic. my armguard have always traces of stringwax. 

now the real problem: every 1-2 months 1 thread of my string starts to break (or breaks), because it passes along my armguard.

i'm shooting Winners Choices strings (+100 euro per set) .... i think you know my frustration.


does anyone have an idea how to solve this?


what i've already tried:

- changing my hand on the riser in every direction, everytime i hit my arm.


please Help



greetz
Tim


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## buck_hunter21 (Jul 1, 2007)

Shorten draw


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## businessdegree (Jul 2, 2012)

maybe you were way too stiff on it thats probably the case


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Tim Bouvry said:


> first of all good afternoon everybody.
> 
> i just had to run inside because of a thunderstorm while i was practicing. but it seems to me a good time to ask about a lifelong problem i have.
> 
> ...


Hello Tim:

You KNOW we need a picture of YOU at full draw,
aiming at a bullseye set at your EXACT COLLAR BONE height.

This will get the arrow level at full draw.

When we see the photo,
then,
we can help you much better.


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## loomis77 (Jan 30, 2011)

If you are continually hitting your arm there are a few things could be to blame....

1) draw length too long
2) your stance is too closed (rear foot too far back)
3) your grip is torquing the bow causing the string to come in not straight.

Take a few photos from side on, and from behind and maybe more light may be shed on your problem. (N&B beat me too it)

Leigh.


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## kimberlyc63 (Mar 30, 2009)

I use a Dead End string stop on my bow and once I installed it, I have not had a problem hitting my arm...don't know if that would help.


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## BadgerT (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you consider a grip change, but, pics would definitely help.


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

thank you all for the advice, i will get pictures tonight at practice.

i'm pretty convinced its not my grip, i've tried everything, turning my griphand more to the right, more to the left, more pressure above, more pressure on the bottom.

my stance is pretty close, not far away

my drawlength, i think, is still a bit to short ... :s

something else i've read it could be corrected with stabs. if the stabweight is to much up front, you "Center Gravity" point is way to the front instead of you pivot point (which is you grip). if that is the problem, the bow will be trown to the right on release, making the string go to the left ... maybe i don't know.


tonight i'll ask to take pictures of me.
thank you all in advance!


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

as promised some pictures my trainingsmate took tonight while training on the 50 meters (with a result of 666 on 720).



















































i hope someone finds something.


one thing i tried tonight was changing my stance.

from:

|
|

to

|
_

and i hit my arm less, but still. and my aim was not as stable.


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

also 2 video's to help

hard to post links on this board so just add the www


youtube.com/user/00Nescio00/videos


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## NicholasRad (Jun 22, 2012)

Your grip is wrong, the bow handle should go on top of your lifeline. It shouldn't be sitting on your whole palm like that.


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## Daiwateampenn (Feb 8, 2012)

try to shorten ur draw length... look like u leaning backward in the picture.


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

indeed Daiwateampenn i've noticed now i'm leaning backwards. which i've never done before. strangly i still think my drawlength is too short :s 

if i shorten my drawlength i lose the position of my releashand, maybe i have to just get used to it, being my hand somewhere else.


@NicholasRad: i think my grip is on my lifeline (it feels that way) but as you say my grip may be to "full". i have tried before getting the bottom of my hand further to the left (so my lifeline would be more onto the grip), the shooting against my arm was less, but still existing. (less pain also  )


when you look at the video's you'll see my bow jumps forward on release, also the hits my wrist. does that have anything to do with it?


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

It looks like your forearm is over rotated so that the inner portion being struck by string is too close to the string. Your hand is near vertical. Try adjusting, more specifically rotating your bow arm, so that none of the riser grip lies on your life line. The grip should lie fully on the muscle below your thumb. Your knuckles should run at a 45 degree angle to the riser. Also, from your last photo, you bow arm elbow joint might naturally allow some hyper-extension at lock out. To compensate for that, you'll have to stop short of full extension.

Here's a photo of John Dudley from his web site. Notice the angle of his knuckles and how it results in the underside of his forearm away from the string.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1557587

I haven't tried the above training aid, but it looks as if it was made for you. Too much hand in the grip is causing most of your problem. Part of it is also the way your elbow is made puts it more into the string path. Part of it may also be slightly too long dl. Would like to see the string cross/touch the corner of your mouth. Any change will feel strange and wrong at first. You will probably always need to wear an armguard. Am not a qualified coach---just an old shooter, so please take all of the advice with a big grain of salt.


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

Tim
I feel for you. I used to have the same problem, but never busted strings. I wish I could tell you what I did for sure, but I don't know. I did change my stance, I used to shoot with my right foot a little back, and I think I shoot with it a little forward now (hard to tell, I never think about it when I shoot. I also changed my grip, I now have my index finger wrapped under between the riser and my hand and the other 3 finger just touch the front of the riser for after shot control. I will tell you this, I had the probllem when I shot a 7 5/8" brace bow with cam location string stops and now I shoot a 6" brace with a mid string stop (PSE AXE 6, factory stop). So I don't think all the talk about short brace not being shootable is just talk and it has more to do with your form. Good luck.

Ches.


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## gdouty (Oct 19, 2009)

It definately looks like your arm has a natural hyperextension to it. I think you could rotate your grip (knuckles more horizontal) to move your forearm out of the way. If that does not completely fix the problem, I would consider a string stop since the string is traveling past its resting point to contact your arm.


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## Daiwateampenn (Feb 8, 2012)

long draw length will cz an archer to lean bakward. 
I had this problem b4. Infact i short 1.75inch, n i cant believe it. Its hard to shoot shorten dl. Bt need time to adapt. Naturally it ll change ur lean bakward. Wif shorter dl, u ll find a differ anchor point, n the string ll nt hit on ur arm. Cz u will infact bend ur arm a little bit to compensate the shorten length. Just my 2 cent opinion. No harm trying bro. Happy shooting


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## xorblade (Jun 2, 2012)

simple solution.. everyone wants to blame grip, draw length etc etc.. how about everyone look at the root problem... LOOK at the position of your elbow. The tip of your elbow is facing DOWN! this rotates everything off. Concentrate on pointing it perpendicular to your string. Cudos to Preager you are the only one here that seems to get it!!!

Mathews Heliu-M 70#


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## gdouty (Oct 19, 2009)

The position of your elbow has everything to do with your grip. You can't re-position your elbow without adjusting your grip. Have a look at your arm xorblade, your hand is connected to the same bone that your elbow is...You should not come on here and criticize people for trying to give someone good logical advice. It starts with the grip, any good archer will tell you that, in fact Preager is saying just that... _"The grip should lie fully on the muscle below your thumb. Your knuckles should run at a 45 degree angle to the riser."_


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

waaw thank you all for the advice, never though some many would reply.

Xorblade you are correct, if i look at my trainingpartner, they do not have a rotation of the elbow, and indeed i have hyperextention.
and indeed Preager, i think i just have to practice on that

rotating my elbow so my tip is facing out (to the left instead of down) it hurts like hell, i'm no wussy but it feel soo unnatural in so many ways. even my shoulder hurts when i rotate my elbow.

i have tried before on not stretching my arm to the fullest, works fine, ... for a couple of months, then i just start to push my bow forward on release. ofcourse that's all my fault.


i don't mean to mirror myself to the big guys, but Rio Wilde and Roger Willet Jr, they also lean back.


this is what i'm going to try, because rotating my elbow won't work + no room prevued for a stringstop.

widen my stance, turning my back foot 90° clockwise
+
shorten my drawlenght
+
not fully stretch my arm

thank you all very much guys!! i'm leaving for Portugal tonight on holiday, so no practice for 2 weeks. the week after i will work hard on this and report back!


thank you!!!!


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## wolbear (Oct 28, 2005)

buck_hunter21 said:


> Shorten draw


This is your answer ^^^^ your draw length is way too long.


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## maufenkamp (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm no expert but I was thinking your draw length was a bit long too as your bow arm seems awfully "locked".


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## xorblade (Jun 2, 2012)

Tim,

Best of luck to you , if you work on Grip, getting that elbow to rotate a little more outwards and possible an adjustment of draw length to aid in the previous two, I am sure all things will be solved.


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

goodmorning everyone! i'm back from holiday in Portugal, got some time to relax. but now the real deal.

today going to visit my pro-shop, so he can shorten my drawlength, tomorrow morning first practice.

i'm going to change my grip with shorter drawlength and see what it does.


i also got a tip, to change nothing about my stance and grip (because that works) but serve that piece of my string ...

i just think i'm going to get it served but still alter my grip and drawlength.


i'll let you guys know what the first results are. i'm going to shoot without armguard, only way to "feel" if it work, no pain no game


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## philhoney (Feb 25, 2010)

Hi,
Try this. Hold your arm out to the left with your thumb vertical.:thumbs_up. Now turn your hand so that the thumb is at 45deg.
Did you turn it at the wrist or the shoulder? 
I am guessing that you turned at the wrist. If you turn at the shoulder your elbow "should" take on a slight bend outwards. It works for me and most of the beginners I help to get started at our club.
Phil


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

hi Phil,

thank you for your reply.

indeed when i turn my hand like that, it turns at my wrist/elbow. if i force myself to turn at the shoulder, it provides my quit a lot of pain, and my shoulder comes up (it rises).


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

went to the pro-shop yesterday.

new string. when the guy saw my string he said (without me telling something): armguard? beiter? i was like: LOL. i said to him it is my fault, he replied: oké but get rid of the beiter armguard (got one of easton now) i have seen this before.

so what's done now:

- new winners choice string
- new peepsight with clarifier (wanted that for a long time) and raised the position of my peepsight
- shorter drawlength

also bought me a new Axcel sight  at home the lady went crazy 

this afternoon first practice! hopefuly it works!!


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

owkay promissed some updates.

last night, practice, 200 shots.

with shorter drawlength and change to my grip als mentioned above by everybody.


result:

- still hitting my arm, but a lot of less than before
- new armguard of AAE works fine
- because of the "lighter" grip my dot is not as stable as before
- because of the shorter drawlength i have trouble to find my anchor point, nothing "feels" good.

strangly, my points remain the same, although not as good grouping, but still same points ....


now messing around with stabs to find a steadier aiming. also have to try to relax when shooting. i'm really pulling my stops into my string, therefore my bow jumps forward and my wrist and stab jumps to the left on release. but when i relax, my aim is even looser.


i just have to get used to it i guess? today, tomorrow, friday and saterday, each day 300 shots, hopefully i get used to it.


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## Tim Bouvry (Jul 4, 2012)

after a week of serieusly training, i kind of got used to it. this morning shot 347/360 on the 50meters. 

i still sometimes hit my arm, but very little, and only when i apply to munch force pulling my string to hold steadier.



i want to thank you all for the help!!! this is a very good Forum for Archers!!


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