# Cutting x10s from the back vs from the front to stiffen dynamic spine...



## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

It works. Done it.

Be careful, 1/8" can make a big difference. It has to do with where the barrel taper is on the shaft. Cutting from the rear of the shaft changes where the barrel is in relation to the whole shaft and effectively stiffens the shaft more quickly.

Cut a little, then test the affect. Then cut a little more.

Note that there is a limit to how much you can cut from each end. (it's listed on the easton website somewhere) The reason there is a limit is you need to avoid getting into the barrel taper of the shaft. Cutting to much will get you into a part of the shaft where the components will no longer fit properly.

DC


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

The cut limit only applies to the front end. Cutting from the rear is not recommended or supported as the outcome depends on too many variables, especially the shooter. It's better and easier to make a small bow weight adjustment.


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

I was one told never cut form the back, for the reason that the manufactred end is exact for nock and cutting may not be as exact and arrow could possibly become unstable(break/explode) true? not sure, possible, sure, probable ?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yes, yes, and it depends. I've heard that it's about a 2:1 ratio, but I don't have numbers to back that up.

To get my 400 A/C/E's to tune with my 125 grain custom tungsten points, I trimmed them from the back 1/2". Likewise, to get my 410 X-10's to tune with 120 grain points, I trimmed them 1" from the back. I preferred this solution vs. going to a 380 spine X-10, as that would have made my overall arrow weight too heavy for me to reach 90M on my sight (a problem that may be unique to my 32.5" draw length at 48#).

If you trim too much, you are sacrificing clearance, however. This is the point of the tapering (and weight reduction). So keep that in mind.

Having said all that though, you might want to take gt's advice here. He designed them.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Cutting from the back barrelled shafts for recurve shooting is:
1) moving the COG back 
2) making the finger area stiffer, loosing the advantage of the barrelled shape
3) making the arrow much stiffer, average two to 3 times of the same lenght cut form the front.
4) increasing the dynamic spine tolerance of the finished arrow

So, it is NOT a suggested process for finger shooting. Unfortunately, if you have a very long draw and/or you want to shoot a very heavy poundage, cutting barreled arrows from the back may be the only p possible solution.
If you cant' manage a n ACE 370 or an X10 380 as they are too weak for you, one cm from the back may help. If you need more, better to find other solutions like:
- Using Pro Tour ( 420 pro Tour reacts more or less like a theoretical 360 X10)
- Using Nano pro or Nano Xr (add 100 to get equivalent barreled shaft dynamic spine, so a 450 is close to a 350 theoretical X10)
A very "Heretic " solution is to use barrelled shafts reversed. FOC becomes better , and arrows become around 2 sizes stiffer than used in normal direction. But consistency in a set of 12 may be a problem. GT may remember some years ago discussions about this solution. Michele made some testing at that time, and results were not so bad, but progress was stopped to follow more traditional solutions for lack of time and shafts... 


.


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## archerynooblol (Nov 6, 2010)

wanemann said:


> I was one told never cut form the back, for the reason that the manufactred end is exact for nock and cutting may not be as exact and arrow could possibly become unstable(break/explode) true? not sure, possible, sure, probable ?


This.

Friend of mine bought a set of arrows (ACEs) that were cut from the back. Initially he had no idea. They were prone to cracking towards the back, 3-4 broke within a week or two. These weren't the lateral cracks running parallel to the shaft you would normally get, but were spiral fractures.

Because we thought it may have been a manufacturing defect, he sent them in to Easton. Their QA team recognized straight away they were cut from the wrong end, basically saying if you cut the back end it absolves them from any responsibility from manufacturing defects/implied warranty/ etc. 

AN


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

it is also an only option if you have a very short draw. My arrow shaft is 25.5 inches. The 500 spine i shoot if you cut the max recommended off the front my arrow is still too long. I have 1.5 inches off the back and 5 inches off the front (4.0 inches is the max recommendation for the front). The 500 is 32 inches from factory. If you only can cut 4.0 inches off the front, then arrow is 28 inches, no shorter. Two and a half inches too long for my draw, so i had to experiment. I would not recommend you go much past the front recommendations. Your shaft will get wider and the points will not glue in securely as the shaft shank will not make good contact.

I would not recommend cutting from the back. Its a lot of trial and error and X10s are not cheap. It can be done, but i would not recommend it just to shoot a lighter arrow and more speed. If you can , stick to the guidelines posted by Easton. ( who by the way recommended we cut from the back of the shaft and the front to get them to my needed length. 

I have in my closet 650s, 600s, 550s, and 500s. All products of my experiments to get the shaft length i needed while maintaining a spine that my bow poundage would shoot and that would tune well and spine correctly. 


Chris


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## SHOCKER77 (Mar 22, 2012)

There is a good article on the Easton sight regarding this if your using a compound bow u will need to cut some from the back but be careful I learned the hard way and cost me a good chunk of $ do not cut your whole amount from the front If I remember right you will need to cut almost equal amount from front to back with x10 for compounds or go a what size under and all from the back for compound it is trckey using regular x10's for a compound that is why they developed the protour


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

chrstphr said:


> it is also an only option if you have a very short draw. My arrow shaft is 25.5 inches. The 500 spine i shoot if you cut the max recommended off the front my arrow is still too long. I have 1.5 inches off the back and 5 inches off the front (4.0 inches is the max recommendation for the front). The 500 is 32 inches from factory. If you only can cut 4.0 inches off the front, then arrow is 28 inches, no shorter. Two and a half inches too long for my draw, so i had to experiment. I would not recommend you go much past the front recommendations. Your shaft will get wider and the points will not glue in securely as the shaft shank will not make good contact.
> 
> I would not recommend cutting from the back. Its a lot of trial and error and X10s are not cheap. It can be done, but i would not recommend it just to shoot a lighter arrow and more speed. If you can , stick to the guidelines posted by Easton. ( who by the way recommended we cut from the back of the shaft and the front to get them to my needed length.
> 
> ...


Very curious to know what sort of poundage are you shooting... using a 550 cut to 25.5 front and back shood mean muck over 60# ...let say 65# at least, and this is not so "commmon" for recurve ...


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

Thank you everyone!


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Vittorio said:


> Very curious to know what sort of poundage are you shooting... using a 550 cut to 25.5 front and back shood mean muck over 60# ...let say 65# at least, and this is not so "commmon" for recurve ...


I shoot 49-50#. Bare shaft and fletched group together at 20m, 30m, 50m and 70m. I tried 650, way too weak, tried 600 still too weak, tried 550s, they shot well and tuned at 42#. Went up to 48-50# and 500 spine works. 


And as a side note, Park Sung Hyun shoots a 550 X10 spine arrow. Her arrow was just shy of 26 inches from nock to end of shaft. Her draw weight was 44#. My arrow is almost exactly same length, but i am shooting 5# heavier, and have one spine heavier. 


I started at 650 as easton chart says 650. 500s are what tune. I would love to shoot a 650. I would gain so much speed from the lighter shaft. But 500 is what tunes. And i can not get any higher poundage. My Mk Korea Vera limbs are 48#. At my draw with limb bolts almost all the way in, i get #50. MK does not make higher poundage limb in Vera. 

Chris


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

chrstphr, exactly what I was saying. Sometrhing wrong in all your data, or more simply you are in quite "normal" fake reading of the bare shaft impact.
Let say like this:
My daughter , wheren shooting 42# at fingers with 26" shaft , was using ACE 620 and 110 gr tungsten point
Park S. Hyun , shooting 44# to 45# at 26", was using 550 (probably with tungsten points)
Up to here, everything works almost normally ...
Then, if you cut another 1/2 inch from 550 and you use steel points, you should still be in the 550 range at 47-48#
If you cut 1 1/2 inch from back, at 25.5", you should be able to tune 550's at around >52# or more. 500 at 25.5" definitely over 55# at least.

Just playing now with a shaft selctor on my Android phone, and trying different set up, for 50# and 25.5" it gives from 700 to 650 X10 ... while to go to 550 to 600 range you should need 60# .... and this without cutting from the back ... This shft selector is not perfect, but gives an idea ...


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Vittorio said:


> Let say like this:
> *Park S. Hyun , shooting 44# to 45# at 26", was using 550 (probably with tungsten points)*
> *Up to here, everything works almost normally* ...
> Then, if you cut another 1/2 inch from 550 and you use steel points, you should still be in the 550 range at 47-48#
> ...


Hi Vittorrio, Park Sung Hyun arrow is 26 from nock to shaft end. Her shaft length is 25.5 inches. Her beiter outnock adds to the distance for 26 inch arrow, just as my beiter outnock adds to my distance. My shaft and Park Sung Hyun's are 25.5 and 26 with beiter outnock. We both shoot tungsten point @ 100 grain. Her arrow spines in 44# with 550. My arrow spines in @ 49# with 500. If hers works and is almost normal, it is same for mine. You can only get her arrow length by cutting from back and front. She has to cut approx 1.5 inches from the back to get her length, same as me. She can not cut more than 4 or 4.5 inches from front on 550 X10 with good results, as the recommendation is 3.5. So the rest for her must come from back. She never shoots pin nock, always beiter outnock which adds length. She also shot both stainless and tungsten, though tungsten later in career. Her arrow still same length 26 inch including nock ( minus point).

The easton 550 is 31 inches from factory and you can only cut 3.5 from front, you are left with 27.5 shaft. to get to 25.5 shaft ( 26 with outnock) you must cut most of the 2 inches left from back. ( i think for her arrow to spine that she cuts 4.0 inches from front and 1.5 inches from back), just as i did. 2 inches from back is may be too stiff arrow for her 44#. So Park Sung Hyun has 31 inch arrow, cuts 4.0 from front and 1.5 from back = 25.5 inch arrow. 26 with Beiter outnock. It spines in for her poundage shooting rock hard plunger. 

Perhaps if i am lucky and shoot well this coming year, i can make a few international teams in 2014 and get to meet you personally. I realize i am an idiot to argue an opposite point from you as you have forgotten more about archery than i ever knew, and i have the utmost respect for you. 

I dont think i have a false positive. I can put 2 bare and 2 fletched in gold at 20, 30, 50 and 70 in good group. If my arrow was stiff enough for >55#, then bareshaft would not even be on target at 70 meters. As i said, i first started with 650s, then 600s, then shot 550s at 43# with excellent results. All at my arrow length to 26 ( not including point). 

Chris


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

I've been cutting ACE's from the back for years. Never had any problems. I usually cut at least 2 inches to get a one size weaker shaft act like one with normal cutting.


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

Interesting Mika. Thats a good assessment, 2" from the back to get one size stiffer.

Which nocks do you use?


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

cc46 said:


> Interesting Mika. Thats a good assessment, 2" from the back to get one size stiffer.


GO EASY on the cutting.......I found that cutting one inch from the back makes it one size stiffer (with ACE 570's at 29 5/8" shaft length, 30 1/4" from nock to back of point). As GT says "the outcome depends on too many variables". 

IMO removing the nock and cutting off 1/8" or 1/4" at a time doesn't involve too much hassle even if you have to repeat that procedure 4 - 5 (or however many) times. And don't cut all your shafts at once.....try cutting just one fletched shaft and one bare shaft and shoot them until you are convienced how much is the proper amount cut-from-the-back for you. - John


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

Cutting from the back always means you must leave some extra length on the shaft to fine tune from point end, but no more than 1" or maybe less. I have cut ACE 520, 570 and currently 670. All of them have worked fine, no erratic flyers or something like that. Tuning as normal. I use rubber vanes, FFS187 or FFP200 and Beiter 12 insert nocks. Advantage is that you can shoot a slightly lighter shaft, 6-8 grains may mean 20-25" impact difference at 90 metres


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