# Marked Yardage Ranges



## wolfman_73 (Mar 7, 2005)

I think they'd hate all marked since they'd lose an excuse for shooting one in the guts and saying, dang I miss-judged it. Lol. 
But honestly I prefer marked shoots. Just personal opinion tuo


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Florida ASA Pro AM.....had 128 shooters that shot the K45 class......so 6ppl a target isn't too bad....


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

simms ranges at the pro/ams are all known distance and they get alot of shooters I wish IBO would have a known yardage class.


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## markb317 (Nov 18, 2009)

I know at the ASA Hunter Class it seems that the scores don't improve alot on the known yardage day.


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## ky hammer (Jan 7, 2003)

its been kicked around a lot around here Rudy but nobody is having any of those here. several folks are shooting that class in the ASA shoots though. we are missing the boat.


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## jg-xring (Aug 26, 2006)

I would shoot that class if it was available in our area.


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## spicman (Dec 1, 2003)

would like to see more marked yardage.


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## Big Johnc (Sep 2, 2007)

I shot k45 in FL ASA Pro/Am. 6 to a stake was the most fun I have had on a range in a long time. I counld not blam yardage for a bad shot.. 18 up on sunday not bad...


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Marked yardage 3d event is are biggest event of the year.

Check it out

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1494993&highlight=Wagoner


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

I looove marked yardage. I hate driving 8+ hours and spending a bunch of money I don't need to spend for a yardage judging competition. That being said, one day I will return to unknown distance, but it won't be until I am able to do it how I want. Perfect practice makes perfect.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

And if I attend a normal club shoot (as in not a state championship or something else "prestigious") then I shoot a practice round with the rangefinder- as long as the owner doesn't mind me being on range with a rangefinder. Nobody once has ever tried to make me tell them the yardage (and if they did I would give it to them.. about 5 yards to hot and convince them they need a 14


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

I would love to see the IBO have a known class. I think it is the only thing missing. I really dont see a negative side for having this class.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

bow-legged said:


> I would love to see the IBO have a known class. I think it is the only thing missing. I really dont see a negative side for having this class.


I think ASA has done well adding that class. Many just feel like they got a better chance of winning in that class. Honestly wish they would make it where a pro could shoot both the marked and unmarked. Be interesting to see Levi and Brooks and some of those guys shoot the marked course. 
DB


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

the thing is not everyone has the time to put into practicing judging yardage.So it would be great to see and would benefit IBO to add this class.I know there is alot of people against it but hey they dont have to be in that class if they dont want.I personally would shoot it just for the fact between family life and work i dont have the time to practice anymore,


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## markb317 (Nov 18, 2009)

I know that I never go out deer hunting so why not make the HUNTER Class a known yardage class at the IBO's????


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## Jbeau (Jul 29, 2008)

I think having the option to shoot known or unknown is great for the sport.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

I hate marked yardage. Well, not exactly...lol. I love shooting the Sims Range (known distance) at ASA, but I use it as a practice for the main event, judging each target, then seeing how far it really is. I would have a tough decision if there were no unmarked competitions as what to do. I really enjoy the judging aspect.(I also do not have a range at my house and if I judge distances twice a week, I am doing well).

All that being said, I am clearly in the minority, so I think maybe the IBO should consider adding a couple known classes. ASA has proven that known will be a big draw.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Although I'm fairly good at judging distances I would favor marked yardage. Let's face it. Most people that shoot local 3D shoots are hunters. Most hunters are not going to be shooting out to 50 yards. In fact most would limit their hunting shots to 30 yards where trajectory isn't that much of a factor. So why make them judge yardage? Why not give them the opportunity to improve their shooting skills without the possiblity of losing arrows. This sport is expensive enough for most people.

I know I said local shoots, and you guys are talking ASA vs IBO, but percentage basis as a whole how many shooters attend these bigger shoots? Hey, it helps speed things up a bit, too.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

bow-legged said:


> I would love to see the IBO have a known class. I think it is the only thing missing. I really dont see a negative side for having this class.


Expect to see some 440's posted unless they change the scoring for the class. The center 11 is an entirely different game than 12's and 14's. A pretty bad miss on an 11 is only a one point penalty (no risk).


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

As far as ASA is concerned, I think they could do away with some known yardage. Now that they have K45 & K50, I would like to see them do away with known yardage in the open classes. However, this is just my opinion.


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## markb317 (Nov 18, 2009)

Ithink the only open class that is known yardage is open c and that only the second 20 targets


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Open B is the same way...1/2 and 1/2. That makes 4 open classes that have some, or all, known yardage. The only option for all unknown is open A, if you don't shoot pro or semi-pro.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Around here many of the local shoots have a class for those wishing to use a range finder.

it really did get a lot more people to attend.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

I would be one minute and fifty seconds faster at the stake.


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## babyhoose (Jun 29, 2008)

I really enjoy marked yardage. I shot all seven ASA tournaments last year and won money every time. Winning an archery tournament should be more about who's the best shooter, not who is the best yardage judger.


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## hoytshooter0106 (Jan 1, 2012)

well i think that is the part of 3d that makes 3d all the known yardage is a long range spot shoot and i think if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot the paper targets cause that is known yardage for ya but that is what makes a 3d shooter a 3d shooter is judging yardage and ill be the first to tell ya i cant judge yardage and i dont want a known yardage class and i dont think that should even be considered cause then what happens in the field when you dont have time to range a shot and miss it cause you cant judge yardage cause you always know what it is and 3d is supposed to simulate hunting conditions not spot shooting conditions


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## hoytshooter0106 (Jan 1, 2012)

and babyhoose if you want it to be about the best shooter than shoot spots or vegas that tells you who is the berst shot and 3d gives a archer who can judge yardage a chance against the archers that are better shots and cant judge yardage as good as him or her


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

babyhoose said:


> I really enjoy marked yardage. I shot all seven ASA tournaments last year and won money every time. Winning an archery tournament should be more about who's the best shooter, not who is the best yardage judger.


Mark yardage is boring. Might as well just go shoot spots indoor.:thumbs_do:thumbs_do

Why not stay on field range. Wait thats marked and dying!
DB


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> Mark yardage is boring. Might as well just go shoot spots indoor.:thumbs_do:thumbs_do
> 
> Why not stay on field range. Wait thats marked and dying!
> DB


Maybe we don't want to shoot indoors and a paper target all the time? And maybe we enjoy 3d more than field. That's why there is k45 and k45. All of us can have our cake and eat it too.


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## EMC686 (Jun 24, 2007)

I am shooting known 45 now and really enjoy it. You had definitely better bring your A-game for this class. It makes me concentrate more on executing a good shot without worrying about second guessing my yardage. It took a score of 452 to win Florida this year!


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

I dont care for marked yardage, but alot of shooters dont have targets or the time to practice judging, I would think its here to stay, ASA is the best they try to have something for everyone


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## Rielbowhunter (Jan 20, 2012)

I don't get it , 3d is all about guessing yardage. what will you guys want next ? the 11 ring colored yellow or red?


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## unclebear (Nov 30, 2011)

Both of the local indoor ranges are marked, but bent arrow has a three shoot area they setup that isn't marked at all. I think it's more fun to guess and maybe miss then to know exactly where the target is.


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## Monster X (Oct 19, 2010)

Here at our local range, I got tired of the guys holding up time looking for there arrows they lost. So I had the K45 added. It helped out on getting done quiker. But we still have the recurve that just can't shoot. No help for them. Don't get me wrong, recurve is fine. But making a 3 hr shoot last 5 hrs is not fun for most. I don't shoot the K45 class. But it is one of the classes that has the most people.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

Rielbowhunter said:


> I don't get it , 3d is all about guessing yardage. what will you guys want next ? the 11 ring colored yellow or red?


Nah we prefer to shoot the 12 and 14 rings.. Maybe next time


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I think ASA was SMART when they created the K45 and other known divisions....Now there is a place for EVERYBODY to shoot in the ASA...and people are free to choose which they prefer to participate in.

Best move the ASA has made, IMHO> The die-hards said it would never work cuz 3-D is ALL about "judging yardage"...they forgot that no..there is more to it than just getting the yardage "close", it is more about making the shot and hitting where you are aiming

I think the known yardage divisions are becoming as big or bigger than unknown...??? Nobody twists anyone's arm to force them to compete in K45 or whatever; you are free to choose.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Daniel Boone said:


> Mark yardage is boring. Might as well just go shoot spots indoor.:thumbs_do:thumbs_do
> 
> Why not stay on field range. Wait thats marked and dying!
> DB


Dan'l
How many PERFECT scores have you shot on a known distance course? If you have shot a ton of perfect scores, then perhaps it might be boring for YOU.

However, obviously the K45 and known yardage divisions are there to STAY...and are as big or bigger than some of the unknown divisions.

NOBODY is forcing you or the others to shoot the known yardages, you don't compete against those in those divisions, so it really isn't any skin off your nose or money out of your pocket. In fact, take away those Known Divisions, and you are liable to see that the numbers of participants will DROP significantly, cuz not all of those in Known distance will just waltz on over into unknown...FACT.

The ASA now pretty much has a place for EVERYBODY to participate...and, IMHO, no other organization on the planet has a place where EVERYBODY has somewhere to compete. 

Myself, I would, if I decided to compete ASA (and YES, I'm an ASA member), actually have a hard time deciding where I would go. I happen to like unknown, but don't have the money to purchase the 20 targets to study from and memorize for the test. My bow, at 47# peak is over 270 fps, so it would be fast enough the way it sits to compete in ASA in unknown...so I dunno.
BUT...3-D is no longer ALL about "judging distance", is it?


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## hoytshooter0106 (Jan 1, 2012)

all i am saying you dont see a pro class in known yardage do ya


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I was told today that there is NOT a "Pro Class" in K45, and that K50 is where the Pros go..and there are but a few of them in that division anyways..... He said the K45 is very large, however.
This information came from a knowledgeable ASA PRO that hardly ever misses an ASA major event.....
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> all i am saying you dont see a pro class in known yardage do ya


Well Dave Cousins shot Known 50....Im sure most wouldnt consider him an amateur


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> all i am saying you dont see a pro class in known yardage do ya


Yeah, actually K50 is considered Pro in ASA. Look it up.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> well i think that is the part of 3d that makes 3d all the known yardage is a long range spot shoot and i think if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot the paper targets cause that is known yardage for ya but that is what makes a 3d shooter a 3d shooter is judging yardage and ill be the first to tell ya i cant judge yardage and i dont want a known yardage class and i dont think that should even be considered cause then what happens in the field when you dont have time to range a shot and miss it cause you cant judge yardage cause you always know what it is and 3d is supposed to simulate hunting conditions not spot shooting conditions


You're trying to compare 3D to hunting. 3D progressed far beyond being exclusively for hunting practice the minute the IBO and ASA stepped into. It has progressed to another form of target shooting; just that target is made of foam instead of paper. If 3D were just for hunting practice then there would be no need for these organizations and the competitive type of shooting with money or other awards. I 3D were just for hunting practice then there are plenty of club shoots almost anywhere there is archery going on.

Putting things in perspective the people who attend these sanctioned shoots are a very small percentage of the bowhunting population. Most are interested in improving their shooting skills and for some their ability to judge distance too, but I doubt that many do this to improve their hunting skills. Some just like to shoot a bow. There are plenty of classes for those who just want to GUESS yardages. Some are pretty good at it, too. For those that can't the ASA offers an alternative. Nothing wrong with that.


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## hoytshooter0106 (Jan 1, 2012)

levi morgan dont shoot it and that is a pro in 3d not dave cousins and dave is a spot shooter and will kick levi morgans butt all day in spots but put dave in open pro on the 3d course and see what happens that is the pro division not k50 or k45 and that is a joke it really is! 3d is supposed to be like hunting not a long range spot shoot and the people that want the known yardage is spot shooters not hunters or true 3d archers cause that what makes 3d awesome cause a guy that can judge yardage and can shoot descent can actually be in the same class or even better than a guy that wears him out in spots and cant judge yardage that well!! and if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot spots and if you wanna shoot 3d man up and shoot unknown yardage and dont worry about getting beat by a man or woman that you beat up in spots and they beat up on you on the 3d course!! if fred bear was alive he would laugh at a known yardage class cause he never had a range finder!! lol!!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

field14 said:


> Dan'l
> How many PERFECT scores have you shot on a known distance course? If you have shot a ton of perfect scores, then perhaps it might be boring for YOU.
> 
> However, obviously the K45 and known yardage divisions are there to STAY...and are as big or bigger than some of the unknown divisions.
> ...


Funny thing Tom, Dean said he hated indoor spots. Only shot in the beginning to keep his field shooting good in the winter.

Not everyone likes known yardage TOM. If not for 3d there would be alott of folks not shooting archery.
DB


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I agree with you Dan. What you fail to mention, however is that Dean only took up "spot" shooting to improve his skills for BLACK BEAR HUNTING, which was/is his first love of the sport!

Yes, Dan, some LOVE 3-D, but also, some LOVE the concept of MARKED, or KNOWN 45 and KNOWN 50...and in his intelligence, the owner of the ASA saw fit to make a spot for every body and not make it exclusive and limit the options! Brilliant move!

3-D IS changing...and the die hards there that say it is ALL about "judging" are duped...those people don't "judge", they KNOW the distance; they are THAT practiced and that good. They ain't payin' no $250 to go out on the courses and "guess".
The ASA owner sees the writing on the wall and won't make the mistakes that the NFAA has made...by NOT changing and stagnating and getting into a rut with doing the same ole thing over and over and expecting different results. Those die-hard 3-Ders are already barking up that same tree the NFAA die-hards did...thinking that the OLD WAY is all that there is, NO CHANGES and if you don't like it, then don't come....
You see and have spoken many times about the NFAA being behind the times...well...look in the mirror, cuz the die-hard 3-Ders....are in that same mold and trap.

The same with the WAF Vegas Shoot...it has already started to be left in the dust by Nimes, Lancaster, and then back overseas again with other events that are GETTING IT RIGHT....The Vegas shoot is going to have to change some things and catch back up with technology! It is obvious it can be done, even here in the states (Lancaster's a prime example)...but you gotta have a PAID PUBLICITY CHAIRPERSON to handle it!

The Vegas shoot used to be the best in the USA and the largest indoor on the planet...but I'm wondering if Nimes and a few others will soon leave it in the dust.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> levi morgan dont shoot it and that is a pro in 3d not dave cousins and dave is a spot shooter and will kick levi morgans butt all day in spots but put dave in open pro on the 3d course and see what happens that is the pro division not k50 or k45 and that is a joke it really is! 3d is supposed to be like hunting not a long range spot shoot and the people that want the known yardage is spot shooters not hunters or true 3d archers cause that what makes 3d awesome cause a guy that can judge yardage and can shoot descent can actually be in the same class or even better than a guy that wears him out in spots and cant judge yardage that well!! and if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot spots and if you wanna shoot 3d man up and shoot unknown yardage and dont worry about getting beat by a man or woman that you beat up in spots and they beat up on you on the 3d course!! if fred bear was alive he would laugh at a known yardage class cause he never had a range finder!! lol!!


Might want to check the Vegas scores on that statement about kicking Levi's butt all day long in spots.... As a matter of fact Levi just got done leading EVERYBODY Friday and Saturday.. 

[Shift] & [,] are your friends..


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> levi morgan dont shoot it and that is a pro in 3d not dave cousins and dave is a spot shooter and will kick levi morgans butt all day in spots but put dave in open pro on the 3d course and see what happens that is the pro division not k50 or k45 and that is a joke it really is! 3d is supposed to be like hunting not a long range spot shoot and the people that want the known yardage is spot shooters not hunters or true 3d archers cause that what makes 3d awesome cause a guy that can judge yardage and can shoot descent can actually be in the same class or even better than a guy that wears him out in spots and cant judge yardage that well!! and if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot spots and if you wanna shoot 3d man up and shoot unknown yardage and dont worry about getting beat by a man or woman that you beat up in spots and they beat up on you on the 3d course!! if fred bear was alive he would laugh at a known yardage class cause he never had a range finder!! lol!!


Sometimes....people should just not speak..... I hate to burst your bubble...but Fred bear did you a range finder....the old ranging range finder.....


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

i hope you are not a sponsored shooter cause this is no way to promote the sport.
just cause you dont like something does not give you the right to decide if it belongs or not.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

asa_low12 said:


> Might want to check the Vegas scores on that statement about kicking Levi's butt all day long in spots.... As a matter of fact Levi just got done leading EVERYBODY Friday and Saturday..
> 
> [Shift] & [,] are your friends..


No, actually he didn't lead EVERYBODY...there was a "wrench in the spokes' by the name of Jeremy Terhune...and when it was all done and settled, Beauboeuf and Terhune...led the race with 86/90 X's. However, when it came down to the end, I was wrong....Levi did NOT make the final two....and neither did Jeremy.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

Many have said it. ASA has a spot for everyone. If you want to shoot marked yardage, go for it. As for me, I'll shoot all unknown. I prefer the challenge and shooting unmarked forces me to focus on what I'm doing. I get lazy when I shoot known distance. Just my $.02


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> levi morgan dont shoot it and that is a pro in 3d not dave cousins and dave is a spot shooter and will kick levi morgans butt all day in spots but put dave in open pro on the 3d course and see what happens that is the pro division not k50 or k45 and that is a joke it really is! 3d is supposed to be like hunting not a long range spot shoot and the people that want the known yardage is spot shooters not hunters or true 3d archers cause that what makes 3d awesome cause a guy that can judge yardage and can shoot descent can actually be in the same class or even better than a guy that wears him out in spots and cant judge yardage that well!! and if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot spots and if you wanna shoot 3d man up and shoot unknown yardage and dont worry about getting beat by a man or woman that you beat up in spots and they beat up on you on the 3d course!! if fred bear was alive he would laugh at a known yardage class cause he never had a range finder!! lol!!


Do you shoot 3D with broadheads?
When you go hunting do the animals stand perfectly still while you and your group of 4 or 5 guys walk around a trail and judge the yardage to the animal, maybe check it out with binos for a while?
Do the animals you hunt have scoring rings on them?
Do the animals you hunt have multiple arrows in them after your buddies have already shot them?

Dave has shot the Open Pro Class in the past, and he even made a shootdown in Florida one year.

As was mentioned, Fred Bear had a "range finder." I would also hazard a guess that if laser rangefinders were around back then he would have one of those in his pack also. Heck, he was a huge proponent of using poison pods, so I doubt he would get his feathers ruffled over a laser range finder.

3d is to hunting what putt-putt is to the PGA tour....sure both use putters, both use golf balls, both have the goal of putting the ball in the hole...but I doubt Tiger or Phil go to the local putt-putt to get ready for the Masters.....

3D is a target archery venue. The goal is to have the highest score by being the most accurate. Known classes are just another form for the folks that want to shoot known yardage.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

field14 said:


> No, actually he didn't lead EVERYBODY...there was a "wrench in the spokes' by the name of Jeremy Terhune...and when it was all done and settled, Beauboeuf and Terhune...led the race with 86/90 X's. However, when it came down to the end, I was wrong....Levi did NOT make the final two....and neither did Jeremy.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


You may be half right there, i'm no vegas buff so I don't know for sure. What I do know is that Levi shot 30x the first day, and either 28 or 29 the second, making it pretty hard for anybody to be ahead of him since nobody else shot 30x the first day..


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

asa_low12 said:


> You may be half right there, i'm no vegas buff so I don't know for sure. What I do know is that Levi shot 30x the first day, and either 28 or 29 the second, making it pretty hard for anybody to be ahead of him since _nobody else shot 30x the first day_..


Error on your part...*JEREMY TERHUNE also shot 30X on Friday*! There were TWO 30X scores on FRIDAY...Levi and Jeremy.

When it all settled out with the persons that shot 900's.... Chance and JEREMY were tops with 86 X's....and Levi was well below that...but obviously shot a 900, so then the X-slate was wiped clean for the shootoff.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

Ok yes error on my part, but also on yours, which makes this whole convo invalid. 30x for both of them friday. 28 for Levi Sat. 26 for Terhune Sat. Done discussing Vegas on the marked 3d thread..


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Since apparently Terhune had 86 X's out of 90...and had a 26X on saturday...TERHUNE shot a 30X again on Sunday? And STILL didn't win! 2 out of 3 rounds perfect 30X...and Jeremy came from out of nowhere, sorta. Like he isn't "high profile" or anything...until NOW.

Yep back to the Marked 3-D thread however. 3-Ders obviously can and do perform well at "spot events"...but those same people keep winning at 3-D...why? Because they have the form and can MAKE THE SHOT and put the arrow exactly where they point it. They don't GUESS that they can make the shot...they KNOW they can make the shot; unlike so many others that "hope" they can make the shot IF they've "guessed" correctly...big difference.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## McCann (Feb 27, 2005)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> levi morgan dont shoot it and that is a pro in 3d not dave cousins and dave is a spot shooter and will kick levi morgans butt all day in spots but put dave in open pro on the 3d course and see what happens that is the pro division not k50 or k45 and that is a joke it really is! 3d is supposed to be like hunting not a long range spot shoot and the people that want the known yardage is spot shooters not hunters or true 3d archers cause that what makes 3d awesome cause a guy that can judge yardage and can shoot descent can actually be in the same class or even better than a guy that wears him out in spots and cant judge yardage that well!! and if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot spots and if you wanna shoot 3d man up and shoot unknown yardage and dont worry about getting beat by a man or woman that you beat up in spots and they beat up on you on the 3d course!! if fred bear was alive he would laugh at a known yardage class cause he never had a range finder!! lol!!



you might rethink this......

at every ASA event there is little side shoot called Simms Range. last i knew it was known yardage. i believe it was Metropolis 2010 i made a wrong term and ended up by the Simms Range and there was levi Morgan.... Shooting known yardage.

pull up the simms results and search out the names. lots of guys will be on the list


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## EMC686 (Jun 24, 2007)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> levi morgan dont shoot it and that is a pro in 3d not dave cousins and dave is a spot shooter and will kick levi morgans butt all day in spots but put dave in open pro on the 3d course and see what happens that is the pro division not k50 or k45 and that is a joke it really is! 3d is supposed to be like hunting not a long range spot shoot and the people that want the known yardage is spot shooters not hunters or true 3d archers cause that what makes 3d awesome cause a guy that can judge yardage and can shoot descent can actually be in the same class or even better than a guy that wears him out in spots and cant judge yardage that well!! and if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot spots and if you wanna shoot 3d man up and shoot unknown yardage and dont worry about getting beat by a man or woman that you beat up in spots and they beat up on you on the 3d course!! if fred bear was alive he would laugh at a known yardage class cause he never had a range finder!! lol!!


I normally don't comment on posts such as yours, but I can't keep quiet on this one. First, what are your credentials? Are you a pro shooter? Are you a superstar bowhunter? What are your accomplishments? 

I have shot ASA since 06 and have been on the stage receiving a check several times in open classes that were all unknown distance.
I have several P&Y class bucks on my wall and have been bowhunting for over 25 years. I can tell you now, if you think the known classes aren't real 3D just come toe the line with us anytime. Just don't tell us to man up or say we aren't real hunters or 3D shooters just because of the class that we decide to shoot. 

To each his own!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Again...many local clubs around here have allowed persons to bring their range finders on the 3D course. They have a seperate class....they all told me when they started that they the club had alot more people attend and it was good for all.

Most bow hunters I know these days have a range finder on them at all times.....so whats the difference?


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## Buckshutr (Dec 4, 2005)

hoytshooter--One word, punctuation!!


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## 3dbowtechman (Jun 22, 2008)

I have 1 question for all of you.Arent we here to support the world of archery.Who gives a rats you know what about known ydg or guessing ydg.Is ASA or IBO better.Everyone should be trying to make our sport grow instead of tearing it apart.If there is a class,should be your choice to shoot whatever.Lets all make 3d archery get bigger and better.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

Amen 3dbowtechman!!!
This thread was started to see of the popularity of marked verues unmarked amongst archers. Not to slame someones views or if one pro does or doesn't shoot marked. See if a bridge could be constructed to bring all forms of archery together for the better of archery. Only increasing popularity in archery will increase exposure. Whether if you prefer foam or squeezed bales of hay the only way to grow the sport is to sometimes step out of the box. When I was a youngster (40 years ago) all that was available was field, now in our area only one club still offers field. Most of those shooters and clubs dont shoot any longer. All of our local clubs don't offer any rewards for winning your class. So why not advertise that you would either allow rangefinders or offer marked yardage. Perhaps it would increase and encouarge the average joe to come out during the year instead of only shooting in their backyard. Okay enough of my preaching.LOL


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I prefer to shoot 3D unknown, but I'm not against getting more shooters involved.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Sometime things have to be torn down so they can be build back better archery will never be as successful as it should because there are 2 many organizations and rules!


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

NYS REP said:


> How popular is marked yardage throughout the United States. Seems from what I have heard, the Western States have a bigger following and us east of the Mississippi River lean towards unmarked. Do you believe a greater number of archers would attend 3D shoots if taking the challenge of judging yardage was out of the game?


Like NFAA marked 3D with the orange spots?


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

super* said:


> Like NFAA marked 3D with the orange spots?


With the exception of the Redding Trail shoot, I, for one, totally OPPOSE putting any aiming dots on a 3-D target!! THAT is going beyond even my liberal limit when it comes to 3-D and marked or unmarked yardage. ha.

KEEP THOSE DOTS OFF of the 3-D targets!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

super* said:


> Like NFAA marked 3D with the orange spots?


Might as well just shoot field if your going to go marked yardage and mark the targets with dots.
DB


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

What difference does it make? 

Each one of these is a unique game. Play the one you like, play multiples, don't play the ones you don't like. I believe that the known classes are good for attendance and therefore good for all- that's my nice way of saying quit your griping about it- it ain't hurting you.

I shot unknown all of my life and did pretty well at it. I had reservations and opinions about Known yardage classes when they started too. Last year, I had not been shooting 3d for a while and was persuaded to shoot known. I was hesistant or maybe even resistant at first but guess what - I do like green eggs and ham. I do.

I've enjoyed my time shooting Known as much as I have shooting unknown. It's just a different game. I tend to think that there are elements of the game that can be mastered shooting known that cannot while shooting unknown. The strategy is quite different. Right now, I'm content shooting Known. It is a growing class in ASA and even local clubs in the ASA strong areas.

As a side note, I tend to think IBO should stay away from known unless they change their scoring system for it. Risk is what makes it interesting and rewarding in ASA known. IBO wouldn't have that- the safest shot you can make also equals the highest score. I would venture to say that only a point or two would seperate the top 15-20% of the class under the current system and tie breakers bring all kind of other needs/logistics that the shoots can't satisfactorily support.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Daniel Boone said:


> Might as well just shoot field if your going to go marked yardage and mark the targets with dots.
> DB


You have that right, DB! Couldn't agree with you more! KEEP THE DOTS OFF the 3-D animals, period! NO DANGED DOTS! As far as marked yardages? NOBODY forces those that don't want to shoot "marked" to do so. Are there not UNMARKED categories offered? I see no problem with that. You do your thing with UNMARKED, they do their thing with MARKED. You aren't competing directly against each other for the $$ or awards, so why the big deal over it?

Besides, MARKED is here to stay, and UNMARKED isn't likely to vanish any time soon...so go with it and enjoy whichever you choose to do.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## ky hammer (Jan 7, 2003)

well shooting marked yardage 3-D is here to stay no doubt. look at the success of the ASA with those classes and the success of the Redding shoot. i really think that if you could get a shoot the caliber of Redding here in the east there would be a tremendous turn out for that as well. i think there is a place in the IBO tournaments for marked yardage classes. all the guys that i hunt with and most of the ones i know that hunt carry rangefinders so its not a hunting issue. there are a lot of folks that enjoy shooting marked yardage and for us not to have a place for them to shoot is just not being very smart imho.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

so how do we get IBO to realize this?


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## ky hammer (Jan 7, 2003)

well keep putting the idea out in forums like this and the ibo forums and at the shoots tell Ken and any other officals you can.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

hoytshooter0106 said:


> levi morgan dont shoot it and that is a pro in 3d not dave cousins and dave is a spot shooter and will kick levi morgans butt all day in spots but put dave in open pro on the 3d course and see what happens that is the pro division not k50 or k45 and that is a joke it really is! 3d is supposed to be like hunting not a long range spot shoot and the people that want the known yardage is spot shooters not hunters or true 3d archers cause that what makes 3d awesome cause a guy that can judge yardage and can shoot descent can actually be in the same class or even better than a guy that wears him out in spots and cant judge yardage that well!! and if you wanna shoot known yardage shoot spots and if you wanna shoot 3d man up and shoot unknown yardage and dont worry about getting beat by a man or woman that you beat up in spots and they beat up on you on the 3d course!! if fred bear was alive he would laugh at a known yardage class cause he never had a range finder!! lol!!


The game progressed waaay past hunting a Long time ago. You shoot it like your hunting and get you an 8 low behind the shoulder. Shoot at the "14", it ain't even in the same area that you'd shoot. As for Levi not being a spot shooter, I say he did pretty good in Vegas this past wk..I use a rangefinder when I hunt, I believe I owe that respect to the animal, alot of others do too! You don't have to shoot the Known Classes. Fred Bear also didn't use sights! Maybe you should take them off of your bow. Oh yeah, I'd let go of the release aid and the peep and all of the other crutches too. 
The Known Classes are good for 3d archery. It is a way of growing the sport. I am for Growing Archery! When you say it's for hunting you are really showing your ignorance. It's target archery whether you want to admit it or not.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I don't mind known yardage, just back them way the heck back so they don't wear out the targets so fast. lain:


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I would like to see the scoring changed all together! I would like to see a 10 ring and a 11 ring and that be it! It would be scored as 9 for body hit 10 for 10 ring and 11 for 11 ring and 0 for miss. Perfect score for 40 targets would be 400 40X. And if you just hit all the targets the worst score you could get would be 360. Ties would be broken by X count and then first target missed X. Easier to keep track and more exciting to see if a shooter can shoot a perfect round! Just my ideas!


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## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

I like the benefit of having two classes. As long as those two classes don't shoot together at each lane, I don't see it as an issue.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

cenochs said:


> I would like to see the scoring changed all together! I would like to see a 10 ring and a 11 ring and that be it! It would be scored as 9 for body hit 10 for 10 ring and 11 for 11 ring and 0 for miss. Perfect score for 40 targets would be 400 40X. And if you just hit all the targets the worst score you could get would be 360. Ties would be broken by X count and then first target missed X. Easier to keep track and more exciting to see if a shooter can shoot a perfect round! Just my ideas!


 If you have an 11 ring then a perfect score on 40 targets would have to be 440, not 400. And FYI in 3D there should be no such thing as an "UP" score. In IBO every target has an eleven ring. Anything less than that is "DOWN". Same goes for ASA, having anything less than 14 on every target is "DOWN".

What's more, how about an 11, 10, and 8 scoring as it is now? Then a -5 points for the rest of the body (nonvital) and 0 for a miss.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*Spelling*



bfisher said:


> If you have an 11 ring then a perfect score on 40 targets would have to be 440, not 400. And FYI in 3D there should be no such thing as an "UP" score. In IBO every target has an eleven ring. Anything less than that is "DOWN". Same goes for ASA, having anything less than 14 on every target is "DOWN".
> 
> What's more, how about an 11, 10, and 8 scoring as it is now? Then a -5 points for the rest of the body (nonvital) and 0 for a miss.


There is such thing as a up score it is called the bonus ring. IBO has a 11 and ASA has a 12 and 14 they are called bonus rings. I refer to them as mulligan points for mistakes. A perfect score on 40 targets is even 400. You have to get a few bonus rings to compete. scoring and classes need to simplified and just counting the 10 as a 10 and the center 11 as a X and and place on the body a 9 then you do not have make up points when you miss one you can't make it up. It will be more like the sport has evolved into target archery. This scoring method will reward the best and most consistent shooters. Right now we reward the shooter that shoots 4 up with 2 eights and 8 11's rather then the archer that shoot a clean round of all 10's with a score of 400. My way of scoring would give the first archer a score of 398 8x and the second archer a score of 400 0X and the second archer wins with a score of 400 because he shot the best and most consistsant and dropped no points.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Thought field archery was out there for marked yardage. ASA we got the Simms range.

What the heck are these folks going to blame there poor shooting on? How hard can it be its marked yardage?

How many classes can 3d possiable have?


3D all about judging.
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

For me.... its the 4 inches thats the toughest.

I thought I would be better off on K45 to concentrate on the shot while working through some things, not second guessing the yardage etc - 

Nope, mentally collapsed anyways. Hope to have that coached out before Monroe.....

D.B stop on over and introduce yourself. I will be with Strother.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Garceau said:


> For me.... its the 4 inches thats the toughest.
> 
> I thought I would be better off on K45 to concentrate on the shot while working through some things, not second guessing the yardage etc -
> 
> ...


Wont make it to Monroe. Paris will be my first. Be there on Thrusday through Sunday
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Will be there at the Strother trailer as well - we may go down a little early to get some hog hunting done.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Thought field archery was out there for marked yardage. ASA we got the Simms range.
> 
> What the heck are these folks going to blame there poor shooting on? How hard can it be its marked yardage?
> 
> ...


Yeah, known ydg..What happened now? Shooters will know the ydg. and still come off the range stinking it up..It's called executing the shot. But the targets don't have a clear spot to aim at. The targets lean forard, lean back, and footing not always ideal.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

yeah plenty of classes for people to move from pro back to amatuer. We get that you dont like known yard well some people might and that is the reason of this post/.Somme people cant get out and practice judging during the week.


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## ishi924 (Feb 2, 2010)

First of all, I think the reasons you dont see unmarked shoots out west is because most of the ranges are already set up for marked distances .therefore ,creating alot of work just to lay a 28 target shoot out let alone the 42 targets we normally shoot . and thats if you get enough people helping. redding does well because of there membership.Second,most people can't judge yardage so that pushes alot of shooters away.25 years ago we shot alot of unmarked out west but as archery became more popular and exspensive it changed the way people wanted to shoot targets. We still have some good u marked shoots but not as many as I like. I wish i knew the answer to get more clubs to hold unmarked shoots,so for now alot of us hunters are stuck w/the shoots that are available.hope this helps some of you to see the other side . spot shooting. yes we put orange dots on our animals,its alot of fun knowing the distance every time you pull that string.lol ha!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

ishi924 said:


> First of all, I think the reasons you dont see unmarked shoots out west is because most of the ranges are already set up for marked distances .therefore ,creating alot of work just to lay a 28 target shoot out let alone the 42 targets we normally shoot . and thats if you get enough people helping. redding does well because of there membership.Second,most people can't judge yardage so that pushes alot of shooters away.25 years ago we shot alot of unmarked out west but as archery became more popular and exspensive it changed the way people wanted to shoot targets. We still have some good u marked shoots but not as many as I like. I wish i knew the answer to get more clubs to hold unmarked shoots,so for now alot of us hunters are stuck w/the shoots that are available.hope this helps some of you to see the other side . spot shooting. yes we put orange dots on our animals,its alot of fun knowing the distance every time you pull that string.lol ha!


I've shot MANY 3-D events out in Wyoming...and I have yet to shoot a MARKED 3-D event in that State! It has been 4 years since the last one...so in 4 years, they may well have changed...but when I was out there and competed, you weren't going to find a MARKED 3-D event or a rangefinder on the course! In fact, the State of Wyoming...OUTLAWED any umbrella usage for blocking the wind for the shooters, too! 
Can't speak for the other Western States, but my experiences in Wyoming when I did get out there to compete were NO MARKED COURSES for 3-D, period.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

TAYLOR CO. said:


> Yeah, known ydg..What happened now? Shooters will know the ydg. and still come off the range stinking it up..It's called executing the shot. But the targets don't have a clear spot to aim at. The targets lean forard, lean back, and footing not always ideal.


It seems like the K45 and K50 classes have their fair share of shooters who execute the shot well to me......maybe more so than many others.

It also seems like every class has people who leave daily looking for excuses.....no more so in the Known classes. If you can't shoot known, something is wrong or you just can't shoot. Personally, that's what I like about it. Strategy wise, I'm able to learn from every arrow. I know when I'm on and when I'm not. This helps maximize score by making smart decisions in risk taking.


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## HoughsArchery (Oct 7, 2011)

I am more of a hunter than a competition archer so I see 3D as good practice for real life hunting situations and most of the time when your in a treestand you know the yardage pretty close or range it and know exactley what the yardage is so I like marked yardages when shooting 3D, I think its more realistic.


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## ishi924 (Feb 2, 2010)

wy is a great state .I plan on moving there when I retire. hope they still have archery shoots then. I get out there for a month chasing elk every sept,26 yrs and counting but never shot a tourny!


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## styles2310 (Sep 22, 2009)

I shot my second outdoor 3d round today. I have been shooting indoor 3d for a while just find it hard to find free time on the weekend when it is warm outside because of work. My question for you all is what does it actually mean for known yardages. I shot bow hunters class today and the guy told me my furthest shot was going to be 40yds. Does that in itself classify the whole round to a known distance? Or by the rule books I could have used a range finder to actually find the distance? Just a little confused someone please clarify this for me. Thanks


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## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

Marked yardage is for cowards...


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Kale said:


> Marked yardage is for cowards...


and you call yourself a staff shooter. good way to promote the sport I hope your sponsors read this and tell you to go pound salt


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## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

treeman65 said:


> and you call yourself a staff shooter. good way to promote the sport I hope your sponsors read this and tell you to go pound salt


I guess the smiley face did not tip you off to the sarcasm in my response. Relax...

But I agree, if you want marked yardage then stick to feild and indoor. The whole point of 3d is combining yardage judging and shot execution. 

I feel as if marked yardage is for guys who are scared to post a low score and their ego would be hurt in the process IMO


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

I couldnt say how much it pleased me to hear Jesse Browdwater was at an ASA event in Monroe, La.

I think ASA and its known distance has done a good thing. More the merrier. Look forward to seeing Reo, Shane Wills and other target venue guys attending ASA hopefully in the future.

Calling an archer a coward for not wanting to shoot unmarked is wrong in so many ways. 
DB


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Kale said:


> Marked yardage is for cowards...


Guess you've shot perfectly clean, as in all 12's on a 40 target marked course then, correct?? Likely numerous times, too....in your dreams that is.

In addition to that, marked yardage is obviously here to stay...so you won't have your way, either. Expansion of the sport is what the addition of the marked distances is all about, and this is certainly having its successes...Furthermore, YOU don't compete directly against the marked yardage folks....so what do you care? At least ASA is providing choices and a place for everyone to shoot/compete/participate. This is a GOOD THING...It is the RIGHT thing.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Kale said:


> I guess the smiley face did not tip you off to the sarcasm in my response. Relax...
> 
> But I agree, if you want marked yardage then stick to feild and indoor. The whole point of 3d is combining yardage judging and shot execution.
> 
> I feel as if marked yardage is for guys who are scared to post a low score and their ego would be hurt in the process IMO


I would be more the glad to pay your entry fee for known 50 but if you loose you pay me back double.I dont think I would say Keith Trail is scared of anything with a bow and he shoots known yardage, SO ARE YOU SCARED OR WHAT??????????????????????????


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## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

Wow over react much....

I don't think there should be a marked yardage class. That is all...


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Kale said:


> Wow over react much....
> 
> I don't think there should be a marked yardage class. That is all...


boy I love people that try to talk the talk but cant back it up.


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## Kimberley (Jan 29, 2011)

Yah like the ones that can shoot spots all day but can't shoot a 3-d course to save their arse!!!!! Closest we get to marked yardage is range finder class in montello.....lmao but I would go for it.

I'll put a few bennies on treeman.......imp2:


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## paul anderson (Feb 26, 2008)

ok with the know 45 and 50 classes at the asa shoots its time to get go back to open b having unknow both days . the way a 3d archery was a long time go .and the wont be so dam high.


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## jmb61600 (Feb 20, 2009)

We have shoots here in MO that have both marked and unmarked yardage. From the shoots I go to, I have noticed that the turn out is almost the same either way. I personally like them both, but attend more shoots with unmarked yardage for the extra challenge / practice. There are times when you can't use a rangefinder while hunting, so I use 3D unmarked yardage shoots to practice for it. Marked yardage is nice every once in a while though, takes your mind off of judging the yardage and puts it back on your form. Both, in my opinion, are good to have. I'd say its good to mix it up some, not have it just one way or the other.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

the bad thing here is IBO could careless what the shooters want or what would help the sport grow.
I have sent them emails and called with some ideas and they dont even care to talk


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