# Questions and suggestion for Hokie



## Moon

Why do you continue with your weak persistent effort in trying to defend what we all know has been an ongoing royal PITA in SE VA..............especially on an archery/bowhunting forum? Don't you think you would be better off by going elsewhere with your efforts, like to non-hunters that don't know what your sport has been doing to property owners for years in this state? Are there horse riding organizations you could try to win over?


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## 3sheets

Hokieman, I might be wrong, but wut I think Moon is saying, is that he would be willin to formulate a poll for you to see is your presence here is helping or hurting your Deer Dog Runners cause. :wink:

That's actually such great idea I'm surprised I didn't think of it myself!! 


3sheets :bounce:


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## rwells

Without a doubt Hokieman has turned more people against the VHDA than for.


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## BigBirdVA

rwells said:


> Without a doubt Hokieman has turned more people against the VHDA than for.


Big question is did they send the best they have out to represent them? :der:


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## 3sheets

BigBirdVA said:


> Big question is did they send the best they have out to represent them? :der:


We can certainly hope so !! roflmao :chortle::chortle::chortle:


3sheets :bounce:


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## Hokieman

Boys your wrong for I am not the best. I am a ******* country boy and the rest are rather high up on the ladder. As far as I am concerned, yall done formed your opinions way before I ever got here.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Boys your wrong for I am not the best. I am a ******* country boy and the rest are rather high up on the ladder. As far as I am concerned, yall done formed your opinions way before I ever got here.


Formed or forced? Lets see siding with anti hunters, non-support of a law to fix the problems other created. Yep we formed them all right. 

I'm going to help some others form some different ones this fall. :zip:


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## Idaho_Elk_Huntr

Hokieman said:


> Boys your wrong for I am not the best. I am a ******* country boy and the rest are rather high up on the ladder. As far as I am concerned, yall done formed your opinions way before I ever got here.





My opinion has been I hate hunting deer with hounds. I dont hate the hounds but there wasnt a hunting club in my area that wouldnt think twice about hunting your land. Line the roads around it and turn the dogs loose. Armed with shot guns and cb radio's. I lived in VA for most of my life and still do own a nice chunk of property there. My buddy takes care of it and had several calls this past season about hunters running there dogs thru it. All I can say if I was there, there would be a few less dogs next year that run deer. Sorry but slob hunters are the ones hurting you on this. If we could vote on it my vote would be to do away with it no ???'s asked


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## Moon

*Idaho*

I envy you man!  Some of us simply can't get out of this as our roots won't allow us to do it. Our only option is to fight this blight we have called "dog hunting" but it's deer chasing and deer shooting plain and simple and at the root of thousands of land owners being cheated out of our privacy and use of our land without being continually sh-t upon by this tradition gone badly wrong. Thaks for your thoughts and support of REAL HUNTING.


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## deepzak

I could leave........but I refuse to be chased out like a deer in front of dogs.


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## rwells

Alright Hokieman here is what you do. Go and get the head cheese of the operation to come on here and see if they can sway us to the VHDA way on this subject.


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## Moon

*I hear Hokie tried to get in touch with him today*

(Sunday) but he was out running fox/deer dogs:darkbeer: Only kidding..........................but it's not unreasonable to think that..............do you think?:noidea:


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## deepzak

Moonkryket said:


> (Sunday) but he was out running fox/deer dogs:darkbeer: Only kidding..........................but it's not unreasonable to think that..............do you think?:noidea:


WHAT!?! VHDA supporting something illegal? :wink: By VDGIF definitions, having dogs in the field constitutes "hunting", and since it's Sunday (and VHDA doesn't support hunters.....hunting on Sunday), I can't believe they would have their dogs out there....


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## BigBirdVA

deepzak said:


> WHAT!?! VHDA supporting something illegal? :wink: By VDGIF definitions, having dogs in the field constitutes "hunting", and since it's Sunday (and VHDA doesn't support hunters.....hunting on Sunday), I can't believe they would have their dogs out there....


They checked and the horse riders said it was ok.


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## Moon

*Is it just me or*

is ole Hokie backing up from these threads? Probably would be a good idea. I don't think he was/is doing his cause much good here.:smash:


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## 3sheets

Moonkryket said:


> is ole Hokie backing up from these threads? Probably would be a good idea. I don't think he was/is doing his cause much good here.:smash:


Although probably true, messin with Hokie is a hell of a lot more fun than messin with Sasquatch could ever be !! :lol3:

I hope for his own sake, that he did some self introspection and came to the realization that the Deer Doggers were using him. Hokieman admitted that he wasn't a "die-hard" Deer Dogger, but rather a **** Dog Hunter at heart. I didn't and still don't agree with his Deer Dog Runner positions, but I'd probably still would consider going **** hunting with the dude ...
... just as long as he stayed out in front of me and I had plenty of ammo !! lmao :chortle: 


3sheets :bounce:


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## rocklocker2

*deer dogs*

any dogs running deer here in NY are considered target practice


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## Idaho_Elk_Huntr

rocklocker2 said:


> any dogs running deer here in NY are considered target practice


That is the way I looked at it when I lived in Virginia if they were on my property


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## deepzak

rocklocker2 said:


> any dogs running deer here in NY are considered target practice





Idaho_Elk_Huntr said:


> That is the way I looked at it when I lived in Virginia if they were on my property


wooooo wooooo,They've even heard of us in other states! :RockOn: Does this mean that we've won? Unfortunately I doubt it, :tsk: now I just have to go hunt hokie down and counter his hog wash.:flypig:


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## Idaho_Elk_Huntr

deepzak said:


> wooooo wooooo, Does this mean that we've won?


Probably not but it looks like you shut Hokie up :mg:


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## Moon

*Maybe even Hokie*

finally realized he could not make any headway on a an archery/bowhunting site Bowhunters are the folks that they've hurt the most over the years.......................other than private landowners.


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## deepzak

Idaho_Elk_Huntr said:


> Probably not but it looks like you shut Hokie up :mg:


I know your right, at least about not winning But I know that we didn't shut Hokie up, he's just somewhere else selling his BS:blah:. I guess I need to go hunt him down and continue the conversation c:


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## rwells

Hav'nt noticed him on the local forum I visit either. 

I was at the local library today and noticed a virginia farm bureau magazine today. It had a bunch of people in fancy horse riding gear on horses, and they had a bunch of hounds too. It made me wonder.


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## 3sheets

deepzak said:


> I know your right, at least about not winning But I know that we didn't shut Hokie up, he's just somewhere else selling his BS:blah:. I guess I need to go hunt him down and continue the conversation c:


You are certainly going to keep Hokieman's "fan club" abreast of his whereabouts, aren't ya ?? :wink:


3sheets :bounce:


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## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> You are certainly going to keep Hokieman's "fan club" abreast of his whereabouts, aren't ya ?? :wink:
> 
> 
> 3sheets :bounce:


I am here, Will always be here, and done invited you up this year to hunt my little bit of heaven if you choose too. Just remember to plant that corn and me and my ol coondogs will be down to tree em up.:darkbeer:


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## Idaho_Elk_Huntr

Honestly I dont have a problem with the dogs. I used to love to **** hunt, rabbit hunt and duck and goose hunt with dogs. I hae never cared personally for running deer with hounds but didnt have a problem with it until I purchased land that had road all the way around it. I would listen to the slobs plans to turn the dogs loose on my property with CB radios. They would line up on the road and shoot from the roads as the deer run out. When I decided to drive by the would try to act like they were hunting the other side of the road which they didnt have permission to hunt. I did until that year let just about anyone hunt it but I turned MR. AZZ and just stopped it.


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## deepzak

rwells said:


> Hav'nt noticed him on the local forum I visit either.
> 
> I was at the local library today and noticed a virginia farm bureau magazine today. It had a bunch of people in fancy horse riding gear on horses, and they had a bunch of hounds too. It made me wonder.


He was on a waterfowl forum this morning......Yes, I went looking. As far as the farm bureau....If your in bed with the devil:devil:, you have to dress like the devil and submit to all his kinky wishes.....:zip:



3sheets said:


> You are certainly going to keep Hokieman's "fan club" abreast of his whereabouts, aren't ya ?? :wink:
> 
> 
> 3sheets :bounce:


Rest assured 3sheets, rest assured......His post on Cabela's form was already locked. Didn't look like there was much support there either. From what I could tell in the short time I was on the waterfowl site this morning, there was quite a bit of opposition there as well. Imagine that, people who utilize dogs in a legal and ethical manner oppose VHDA and running dogs on deer. Why would you suppose that is?


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## Hokieman

deepzak said:


> He was on a waterfowl forum this morning......Yes, I went looking. As far as the farm bureau....If your in bed with the devil:devil:, you have to dress like the devil and submit to all his kinky wishes.....:zip:
> 
> 
> 
> Rest assured 3sheets, rest assured......His post on Cabela's form was already locked. Didn't look like there was much support there either. From what I could tell in the short time I was on the waterfowl site this morning, there was quite a bit of opposition there as well. Imagine that, people who utilize dogs in a legal and ethical manner oppose VHDA and running dogs on deer. Why would you suppose that is?


I know, that you know, that I know you know.:wink:


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## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> I am here, Will always be here, and done invited you up this year to hunt my little bit of heaven if you choose too. Just remember to plant that corn and me and my ol coondogs will be down to tree em up.:darkbeer:


Hokie, would it be imposing too much iffen I brought a friend along?? Heck, you could bring one of yer buds and we could make it a foursome. This friend of mine has one of those AK-Whatevers, and I'm a tad curious how it does at night on them **** or any Yotes we might bump into. I hope you answer in the affirmative, cause I'm counting on that friend to help with my corn planting !! lmao :nixon: :RockOn:


3sheets :bounce:


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## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> Hokie, would it be imposing too much iffen I brought a friend along?? Heck, you could bring one of yer buds and we could make it a foursome. This friend of mine has one of those AK-Whatevers, and I'm a tad curious how it does at night on them **** or any Yotes we might bump into. I hope you answer in the affirmative, cause I'm counting on that friend to help with my corn planting !! lmao :nixon: :RockOn:
> 
> 
> 3sheets :bounce:


You want to bring a friend huh. Yeah it is ok. :wink:


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## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> You want to bring a friend huh. Yeah it is ok. :wink:



Thanks Hokie!! 
Hey Zak, sure hope you can get that AK :laser: of yers all lubed-up and ready for the **** & Yotes. :wink:

Ahhh Zak, you do know how to plant corn, don't ya ?? :smile_red_bike:


3sheets :bounce:


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## huntwalkers

*Not All Hound Hunters Are Like The Ones Posting On Here*

I hope everyone on this forum to realizes that there are lots of ethical houndsman and hunting clubs out here. We are not all like the ones that have been posting on all of these websites.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between real houndsman and big mouths that have a dog or two.

*Everyone needs to contact your house of Delegate Members TODAY, and ask them to OPPOSE - VOTE NO on House Bill# 1352 - (Restructure DGIF Board)*

This is an attempt by VHDA to unseat all of the current Board Members. It will most likely mean that many of us will not have a DGIF Board Member that lives in our district representing the hunters/ fisherman & wildlife in Richmond!

Thats a real BRIGHT idea they thought of - To let someone who has never seen a duck represent the district with the majority of duck hunting, OR let someone fom West of the Blue Ridge represent hound hunters east of it!!

AGAIN, Please don't put all of us in the catagory with this political fundraising organization!

*CONTACT YOUR LEGISLATORS - Please VOTE NO on house bill #1352*


huntwalkers

Just because they have a hound dog, That don't make them a HOUNDSMAN!


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## Moon

*"houndsman"*

You are talking to the wrong bunch, man! I know what I've seen and have had to tolerate for the last 15 years and you coming on here saying that all deer chasers aren't "houndsmen" doesn't stand a prayer of changing my mind, or others that have had their privacy and lands run over during bow season, muzzle loader season and, quite often, year round. You'll have to do better than that. I'm calling the delegate as you recommended but I'm not telling him what you want me to. Sorry


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## huntwalkers

Read the bill, you will see what I am talking about! This is VHDA supposed "ACE IN THE HOLE"
I understand your point of view because I also muzzleload hunt and Spring Gobbler Hunt and have had both disturbed by dogs, HOWEVER this is why I took a stand that we need change and VHDA has been personally attacking me every since! 

huntwalker

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them Houndsman!


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## Hokieman

:tongue:


huntwalkers said:


> I hope everyone on this forum to realizes that there are lots of ethical houndsman and hunting clubs out here. We are not all like the ones that have been posting on all of these websites.
> 
> THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between real houndsman and big mouths that have a dog or two.
> 
> *Everyone needs to contact your house of Delegate Members TODAY, and ask them to OPPOSE - VOTE NO on House Bill# 1352 - (Restructure DGIF Board)*
> 
> This is an attempt by VHDA to unseat all of the current Board Members. It will most likely mean that many of us will not have a DGIF Board Member that lives in our district representing the hunters/ fisherman & wildlife in Richmond!
> 
> Thats a real BRIGHT idea they thought of - To let someone who has never seen a duck represent the district with the majority of duck hunting, OR let someone fom West of the Blue Ridge represent hound hunters east of it!!
> 
> AGAIN, Please don't put all of us in the catagory with this political fundraising organization!
> 
> *CONTACT YOUR LEGISLATORS - Please VOTE NO on house bill #1352*
> 
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> Just because they have a hound dog, That don't make them a HOUNDSMAN!


I doubt very seriously your a houndsman.


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## huntwalkers

That is where you are wrong hokieman!
I will bet that I have more hunting dogs than you and your fearless leader Kirby put together!
I just refuse to use scare tactics and make up lies about DGIF Board Members, and anyone else that doesn't agree with me, just to get them to go along!

I also refuse to let rogue hunters OR SO CALLED HUNTERS destroy the future of all hound hunters in VA. It's time to clean up hound hunting or get out!!!!!!!!!

huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


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## jfish

*hounds*

It would appear hokie and walker may know one another? If walker is an authentic deer hound hunter he at least has called VHDA out..


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## huntwalkers

jfish,

I don't know this hokieman. He was not there when VHDA was first organizing. I WAS, but once I started checking out all of the stories, false accusations & personal attacks on the DGIF Board Members and other hound hunters, I FOUND THAT THEY WERE LIES! Simply scare tactics to upset hunters so they would give their money to a political fund raising stunt! 

I tried to voice my opinion and their "fearless" leader started personally attacking me because I had figured him out!
Maybe Hokieman should do some checking of his own instead of believing everything he hears??

ALL anyone has to do is go to the state board of elections website and pull up Commonwealth Sportsmen's Alliance PAC. You will see where the "Donations" are going! It doesn't look like to preserve hound hunting to me?? 


I am encouraging ALL hunters to take part in the DGIF hound study to preserve our future!
I will not be part of ANY organization that has to fabricate stories and tell lies about the DGIF Board Members to get others to go along!
It's time for all of the ethical houndsman of VA to clean up hound hunting, For those of you SO CALLED HOUND HUNTERS that can't respect others. I expect you will have more time to bash people on the internet because change is coming and it's going to be HUNT RIGHT or DON'T HUNT!

*EVERYONE: CALL & EMAIL your House of Delegate Members - TODAY 
VOTE NO on house bill # 1352 ( VA Hunting Dog Alliance had this Bill introduced to unseat the current DGIF Board Members because they think they can attempt to stack the DGIF Board!)*

huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That Don't make them Houndsman!


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## Moon

*Here it is*

HOUSE BILL NO. 1352 
Offered January 9, 2008 
Prefiled January 9, 2008 
A BILL to amend and reenact § 2.2-107 of the Code of Virginia; to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 29.1-102.1; and to repeal § 29.1-102 of the Code of Virginia, relating to the composition of the Board of Game and Inland Fisheries. 
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Patrons-- Ware, R.L., Abbitt, Cole, Crockett-Stark, Gilbert, Hargrove, Ingram, Landes, Marshall, D.W., Morgan, O'Bannon, Peace, Pogge, Poindexter, Saxman and Wright; Senator: Ruff 

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Referred to Committee on Agriculture, Chesapeake and Natural Resources 
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Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. That § 2.2-107 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted and that the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 29.1-102.1 as follows:

§ 2.2-107. Appointment of members of commissions, boards, and other collegial bodies. 

Except as provided in the Constitution of Virginia, or where the manner of selection of members of boards and commissions is by election by the General Assembly, or as provided in Title 3.1, § 29.1-102.1, or § 54.1-901, but notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, the Governor shall appoint all members of boards, commissions, councils or other collegial bodies created by the General Assembly in the executive branch of state government to terms of office as prescribed by law. Each member appointed pursuant to this section shall be subject to confirmation by the General Assembly and shall have the professional qualifications prescribed by law. 

As part of the confirmation process for each gubernatorial appointee, the Secretary of the Commonwealth shall provide copies of the resume and statement of economic interests filed pursuant to § 2.2-3117 or 2.2-3118, as appropriate, to the chairs of the House of Delegates and Senate Committees on Privileges and Elections. For the purposes of this section and § 2.2-106, there shall be a joint subcommittee of the House of Delegates and Senate Committees on Privileges and Elections consisting of five members of the House Committee and three members of the Senate Committee appointed by the respective chairs of the committees to review the resumes and statements of economic interests of gubernatorial appointees. The members of the House of Delegates shall be appointed in accordance with the principles of proportional representation contained in the Rules of the House of Delegates. No appointment confirmed by the General Assembly shall be subject to challenge by reason of a failure to comply with the provisions of this paragraph pertaining to the confirmation process. 

§ 29.1-102.1. Board of Game and Inland Fisheries reconstituted and reestablished; composition.

A. The Board of Game and Inland Fisheries holding office on the effective date of this section is dissolved and the members are discharged from any further duties and shall exercise no further powers or authority by virtue of their office.

B. The Board is hereby reestablished and reconstituted as a supervisory board within the executive branch of state government. The Board shall have a total membership of 11 nonlegislative citizen members. The Board shall consist of one nonlegislative citizen member from each Department of Game and Inland Fisheries District, but no more than three members shall be from any one district. All members shall have held a Virginia resident hunting or fishing license for three consecutive years preceding his appointed. Nonlegislative citizen members shall be appointed as follows: four to be appointed by the Speaker of the House of Delegates; two to be appointed by the Senate Committee on Rules; and five to be appointed by the Governor. Appointments to fill vacancies, other than by expiration of a term, shall be for the unexpired terms. Vacancies shall be filled in the same manner as the original appointments. All members may be reappointed. However, no member shall serve more than two consecutive four year terms.

After the initial staggering of terms, nonlegislative citizen members shall be appointed for terms of four years. 

C. The Board shall adopt rules and procedures for the conduct of its business that shall be set forth in a Governance Manual. The Board may establish committees to assist it with its duties and responsibilities. All decisions by a committee shall be reviewed by the Board, and shall only take effect if approved by the Board. 

D. The Board shall annually elect one of its members as its chairman whose duties shall be limited to (i) presiding at all regular and called meetings of the Board; (ii) serving as the Board liaison to the Director, other Board members, and the Secretary of Natural Resources; and (iii) the other duties set forth in the Governance Manual as approved by a majority of the Board. The Board shall also annually elect a vice-chairman to preside in the absence of the chairman. Any additional duties of the vice-chairman shall be set forth in the Governance Manual. At such annual election, the chairman and vice-chairman shall not be eligible to be reelected to their respective positions and no person shall serve more than one year as chairman and one year as vice-chairman during a four-year term. 

E. The Board shall meet at least once every quarter of the calendar year for the transaction of business, and other meetings may be called if necessary by the chairman or at the request of any three members. The majority of the members shall constitute a quorum. Meetings shall be held in Richmond or at such other places within the Commonwealth as may be necessary.

2. That the initial appointments of nonlegislative citizen members shall be staggered as follows: one member for a term of four years, one member for a term of three years, one member for a term of two years, and one member for a term of one year appointed by the Speaker of the House of Delegates; one member for a term of four years and one member for a term of two years appointed by the Senate Committee on Rules; and two members for a term of four years, one member for a term of three years, one member for a term of two years, and one member for a term of one year appointed by the Governor.

3. That § 29.1-102 of the Code of Virginia is repealed.


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## huntwalkers

THANK YOU For posting the bill # 1352 Moonkryket

I don't know how to forward pages here but you can go to the State Board of Elections website 
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/...

AND you will see that Commonwealth Sportsmen's Alliance gave about 5 of these legislators $250 each for their campaign!

If $250 is all it takes to get something done in Richmond maybe everyone should just do that when we want our hunting regulations changed!!

*CALL & EMAIL your Legislators- TODAY VOTE NO on house bill #1352*

huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


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## deepzak

3sheets said:


> Thanks Hokie!!
> Hey Zak, sure hope you can get that AK :laser: of yers all lubed-up and ready for the **** & Yotes. :wink:
> 
> Ahhh Zak, you do know how to plant corn, don't ya ?? :smile_red_bike:
> 
> 
> 3sheets :bounce:


I'm on it......She's always ready to :rock: We'll Whack 'em and Stack 'em :uzi: :wolf:

You know I can plant some corn I'm originally from Minnesota, we got so much corn, it's comming out of our ears :wink: :embara: Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## deepzak

Huntwalkers, I don't know you, but I will be explicitly honest and say that I am leary of anything associated with VHDA (or was). I won't go so far as to say I don't trust you, but I need to examine the bill in detail and make an informed decision on which way I think the GA should vote, to better support ALL Virginia hunters and sportsmen.

In just the short look at the bill that I have taken, it seems as though they think we'll be voting for president. How do they honestly think they'll get someone to take this job knowing that they'll only have a limited time in office. The term limits they seem to be trying to impose would severly curtail any effort by DGIF to implement any type of management programs or betterment to Virginia hunting. 

"C. The Board shall adopt rules and procedures for the conduct of its business that shall be set forth in a Governance Manual. The Board may establish committees to assist it with its duties and responsibilities. All decisions by a committee shall be reviewed by the Board, and shall only take effect if approved by the Board. "

Does this mean that the board will be allowed to change the hunting laws, or only it's own precepts? If it is allowed to change the laws, I can forsee a lot of confusion of hunters every four years, when the board changes hands based on who is in the Governor's office. I truely don't like the idea of more politicians involved in game management and game laws. It's hard enough to get things done.

Huntwalkers, when will the vote take place for this bill? I see that Delagates Ware and Pogge are patrons of this bill, they were both involved in the shut down of the Sunday hunting bill on behalf of VHDA. I think they may be tied to that organization in some manner, so therefore this bill too is suspect.


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## huntwalkers

deepzak,
I am a hunter first and foremost- if it walks, runs, crawls or flies I hunt it! I do enjoy deer hound hunting and have quite a few hounds, However I also enjoy still hunting as well!

I have been trying to tell people for years this was coming! All you have to do is look around at all of the POSTED signs. I have several huge farms that my son & I can still hunt BUT the landowners will not lot me or anyone else hound hunt on it because of several people rutting up the fields about 3 years ago!! I have been trying to tell other hunters if we didn't get rid of the ones that were screwing up we wouldn't have anywhere to hunt or the state would stop us one!

HOUSE BILL # 1352
It is in Agriculture Committee NOW! This is where everyone needs to put pressure on the legislators to KILL it!
THIS BILL HAD A HEARING YESTERDAY - They could be voting on it now??

About 5 or 6 of the bills "PATRONS" recieved $250 donations for campaign money from CSA PAC which (VHDA) is part of .

This is their attempt to try to control DGIF!

I just want everyone to be able to enjoy hunting in their own way without ANYONE shoving something down the others throat! If hb#1352 passes it is going to turn the DGIF Board into a political power struggle with the GA members picking 6 of them! 

HOW MUCH WOULD PETA or HSUS donate to GA campaigns if they thought they could get someone put on DGIF Board??
THIS BILL IS VERY DANGEROUS for all hunters future!

huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


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## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> That is where you are wrong hokieman!
> I will bet that I have more hunting dogs than you and your fearless leader Kirby put together!
> I just refuse to use scare tactics and make up lies about DGIF Board Members, and anyone else that doesn't agree with me, just to get them to go along!
> 
> I also refuse to let rogue hunters OR SO CALLED HUNTERS destroy the future of all hound hunters in VA. It's time to clean up hound hunting or get out!!!!!!!!!
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


No one is using scare tatics. Kirby is not our leader as many who sit on the board make decissions. We don't go along to get along or kiss the rear of the DGIF. We will fight for our Tradition unlike some who would rather be an appeaser.:tongue:


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## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> deepzak,
> I am a hunter first and foremost- if it walks, runs, crawls or flies I hunt it! I do enjoy deer hound hunting and have quite a few hounds, However I also enjoy still hunting as well!
> 
> I have been trying to tell people for years this was coming! All you have to do is look around at all of the POSTED signs. I have several huge farms that my son & I can still hunt BUT the landowners will not lot me or anyone else hound hunt on it because of several people rutting up the fields about 3 years ago!! I have been trying to tell other hunters if we didn't get rid of the ones that were screwing up we wouldn't have anywhere to hunt or the state would stop us one!
> 
> HOUSE BILL # 1352
> It is in Agriculture Committee NOW! This is where everyone needs to put pressure on the legislators to KILL it!
> THIS BILL HAD A HEARING YESTERDAY - They could be voting on it now??
> 
> About 5 or 6 of the bills "PATRONS" recieved $250 donations for campaign money from CSA PAC which (VHDA) is part of .
> 
> This is their attempt to try to control DGIF!
> 
> I just want everyone to be able to enjoy hunting in their own way without ANYONE shoving something down the others throat! If hb#1352 passes it is going to turn the DGIF Board into a political power struggle with the GA members picking 6 of them!
> 
> HOW MUCH WOULD PETA or HSUS donate to GA campaigns if they thought they could get someone put on DGIF Board??
> THIS BILL IS VERY DANGEROUS for all hunters future!
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


This bill would take some of the appointment power of the Governor and put it into the hands of the legislators who work for the people by the people and not an animal rights prone governor dictating to the board members he put in position to do his will.


----------



## deepzak

Hokieman said:


> No one is using scare tatics. Kirby is not our leader as many who sit on the board make decissions. We don't go along to get along or kiss the rear of the DGIF. We will fight for our Tradition unlike some who would rather be an appeaser.:tongue:


Hokie, I noticed that you use the term "our tradition". I take that to mean that you (VHDA) only care about what happens to your dog hunting clubs. You don't seem to care to much about what happens to the rest of the Virginia Hunting Community. I am getting the impression that VHDA would be greatly appreciative if the rest of the hunters in Virginia would just quit hunting.


----------



## Hokieman

deepzak said:


> Hokie, I noticed that you use the term "our tradition". I take that to mean that you (VHDA) only care about what happens to your dog hunting clubs. You don't seem to care to much about what happens to the rest of the Virginia Hunting Community. I am getting the impression that VHDA would be greatly appreciative if the rest of the hunters in Virginia would just quit hunting.


No that is not correct. We are working for a solution to the problem and it will benefit all hunters no just the hunting dog community.


----------



## huntwalkers

Hokieman said:


> This bill would take some of the appointment power of the Governor and put it into the hands of the legislators who work for the people by the people and not an animal rights prone governor dictating to the board members he put in position to do his will.



*THE SAME LEGISLATORS that VHDA is trying to buy for $250???*

Hokieman I guess by now you figured out who I am and you KNOW that I can PROVE all of the false accusations and scare tactics that were used by your leader ALL to be LIES!!!!!!

huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> *THE SAME LEGISLATORS that VHDA is trying to buy for $250???*
> 
> Hokieman I guess by now you figured out who I am and you KNOW that I can PROVE all of the false accusations and scare tactics that were used by your leader ALL to be LIES!!!!!!
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


You can prove them all to be lies. Well let me encourage you to do so as I will not tolerate a liar and a cheat. You show me what you got and it they are lies I will shake your hand and wash my hands of them.


----------



## huntwalkers

Hokieman,
FIRST you said there were NONE, Now if I can prove them? 

I could write you a book, I have some on audio tape, I have hundreds of emails, I have talked with almost all of these people in person and your fearless leader ONLY LIES for political fund raising purposes!!! When the money dries up he will be no where to be found, AGAIN! Kind of like when nobody seen him around after the pig incident!!!!!

You have my email from when Kirby threatened me last week, Email me and I will be glad to forward you what I have been sending some of the other VHDA members that are wondering what in the world they have gotten themselves in to!!

I will even give you my phone number being NOBODY else at VHDA has BA!!S enough to call me!!! 

huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> Hokieman,
> FIRST you said there were NONE, Now if I can prove them?
> 
> I could write you a book, I have some on audio tape, I have hundreds of emails, I have talked with almost all of these people in person and your fearless leader ONLY LIES for political fund raising purposes!!! When the money dries up he will be no where to be found, AGAIN! Kind of like when nobody seen him around after the pig incident!!!!!
> 
> You have my email from when Kirby threatened me last week, Email me and I will be glad to forward you what I have been sending some of the other VHDA members that are wondering what in the world they have gotten themselves in to!!
> 
> I will even give you my phone number being NOBODY else at VHDA has BA!!S enough to call me!!!
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Your right I don't know of any. I am an ethical hunter. I have been for the past 30yrs. I **** hunt, bear hunt, and rifle, bow, muzzloader etc. I don't support hunting illegaly. You know something I should know I ask again show me and I will wash my hands of it and shake your hand. I have worked on getting members to join for free, Contributions are made everyday to delegates, senators and governors. nothing illegal about that so I ask what do you have on Kirby other than killing a pig years ago.


----------



## jfish

*Walker*

Walker, you may not know Hokieman but you obviously know about VHDA. Callem like you see um.


----------



## 3sheets

deepzak said:


> I'm on it......She's always ready to :rock: We'll Whack 'em and Stack 'em :uzi: :wolf:
> 
> You know I can plant some corn I'm originally from Minnesota, we got so much corn, it's comming out of our ears :wink: :embara: Sorry, couldn't resist.



Zak, 

We'd best be stockin up with a lot of extra ammo. With all of these "recent revelations" about the VHDA, sounds like our new hunting bud Hokie, may have a lotta of free time to invite us back for a few "return engagements"!! :cheers: :set1_applaud:

Damn glad you to hear you can plant some serious corn, that will give me more time to keep my lazy azz firmly planted in the shade ... gotta love it when a plan really comes together, hey?? lmao :faint: :loco:


3sheets :bounce:


----------



## deepzak

Cough, cough choke cough disention amoungst the rankscough cough choke cough. :embara: Excuse me. Just clearing my throat.


----------



## deepzak

Hokieman said:


> You can prove them all to be lies. Well let me encourage you to do so as I will not tolerate a liar and a cheat. You show me what you got and it they are lies I will shake your hand and wash my hands of them.


I agree hunt, if you have evidence of lies, cheating, or wrong doing, post it up on here so we can all see it. If you don't feel comfortable, email it to me and I'll run with it. I am sure there are others on here that will do the same thing...3sheets? BB? Get the truth out. If it's something illegal, Hokie has already said that he supports calling LEO's for it.


----------



## deepzak

3sheets said:


> Zak,
> 
> We'd best be stockin up with a lot of extra ammo. With all of these "recent revelations" about the VHDA, sounds like our new hunting bud Hokie, may have a lotta of free time to invite us back for a few "return engagements"!! :cheers: :set1_applaud:


Got about 2000 rounds right now, more to come after next week.........:uzi:
I'll hunt with almost anyone...as long as I feel safe.:wink:



3sheets said:


> Damn glad you to hear you can plant some serious corn, that will give me more time to keep my lazy azz firmly planted in the shade ... gotta love it when a plan really comes together, hey?? lmao :faint: :loco:
> 
> 
> 3sheets :bounce:


WHAT? are we talk'n hand plant'n? or by the drum? If it's go'n to be hot, we'd better bring some :beer:


----------



## 3sheets

deepzak said:


> WHAT? are we talk'n hand plant'n? or by the drum? If it's go'n to be hot, we'd better bring some :beer:


Zak,
Well, neither actually, I'm thinking more along the lines of "broadcasting" ... with a Corn Cannon of course!! 

3sheets :bounce:


----------



## 3sheets

Whoops Zak sorry,

This should answer your concerns in regards to the heat ... Some folks like to preach "tradition", I'd rather practice it!!! :wink:











3sheets :bounce:


----------



## huntwalkers

*Scare Tactics By Vhda*

THIS was the Bright idea of VHDA's "fearless" leader to get all the hound hunters pi$$ed off and to get them to come to the July 17 DGIF Board Meeting when Bob Duncan (DGIF Chief of Wildlife) was supposed to present this study and how it would preserve the future of hound hunting in a way that is fair, sportsmanlike & consistant with the rights of property owners & other citizens!
_________________________________________________________________


Alert! Sportsmen Alert!

The Board of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries will hear staff’s recommendation on a process for addressing the issue of hunting with hounds in Virginia. Staff intends to recommend working with affected stakeholders in 2007 and 2008 with the process resulting in recommended strategies prior to the 2009 legislative session.

This is an Anti-Hunting effort! If you value your Heritage, GO TO THIS MEETING and tell the Board that this committee and their proposals are not needed!

Location & Time: 9:00 AM July 17, 2007
Department of Game and Inland Fisheries Headquarters

4000 West Broad St. Richmond, VA 23230

Authorized by the United Eastern Virginia Hunting Dog Association
Paid for by the Commonwealth Sportsmen’s Alliance

_________________________________________________________________

*WHY would ANY hunter Call this an "ANTI-HUNTING EFFORT" and NOT want to hunt in a way that is FAIR, SPORTSMANLIKE, & CONSISTANT with the rights of PROPERTY OWNERS and OTHER CITIZENS???*

CHANGE is coming and these rouge hunters will not have ANYWHERE to hunt!!! OR Not have a license too one!
Then some of you that have never been on a REAL hound hunt can try it and see we are not all slob hunters and it is a very enjoyable day in the field with family & friends!


huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> THIS was the Bright idea of VHDA's "fearless" leader to get all the hound hunters pi$$ed off and to get them to come to the July 17 DGIF Board Meeting when Bob Duncan (DGIF Chief of Wildlife) was supposed to present this study and how it would preserve the future of hound hunting in a way that is fair, sportsmanlike & consistant with the rights of property owners & other citizens!
> _________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> Alert! Sportsmen Alert!
> 
> The Board of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries will hear staff’s recommendation on a process for addressing the issue of hunting with hounds in Virginia. Staff intends to recommend working with affected stakeholders in 2007 and 2008 with the process resulting in recommended strategies prior to the 2009 legislative session.
> 
> This is an Anti-Hunting effort! If you value your Heritage, GO TO THIS MEETING and tell the Board that this committee and their proposals are not needed!
> 
> Location & Time: 9:00 AM July 17, 2007
> Department of Game and Inland Fisheries Headquarters
> 
> 4000 West Broad St. Richmond, VA 23230
> 
> Authorized by the United Eastern Virginia Hunting Dog Association
> Paid for by the Commonwealth Sportsmen’s Alliance
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> 
> *WHY would ANY hunter Call this an "ANTI-HUNTING EFFORT" and NOT want to hunt in a way that is FAIR, SPORTSMANLIKE, & CONSISTANT with the rights of PROPERTY OWNERS and OTHER CITIZENS???*
> 
> CHANGE is coming and these rouge hunters will not have ANYWHERE to hunt!!! OR Not have a license too one!
> Then some of you that have never been on a REAL hound hunt can try it and see we are not all slob hunters and it is a very enjoyable day in the field with family & friends!
> 
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Dang Tim you sound just like a DGIF advertisement. LOL:wink:


----------



## huntwalkers

Deepzak,

How do I send you an email?? 

I have the VHDA "Talking Points" they used for a meeting that will show everyone ATTACK THE STILL HUNTERS is thier way of doing things!!

OR if you can email me I will forward it to you


huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## huntwalkers

*VHDA for the world to see!*

*VA Hunting Dog Alliance "talking points" for a meeting that Ward Burton (DGIF Board Member) had in Wylliesburg VA to give everyone a chance to clear up all of the false allegations about the hound study!*_________________________________________________________________

Wylliesburg issues/talking points first draft:

On scare tactics/misrepresentations by VHDA:

With regard to alleged misrepresentations/scare tactics by the Va. Hunting Dog Alliance, a reading of the VDGIF message announcing the dog study, namely that VDGIF has decided to launch a study concerning the "Future of dog based hunting in Va.", and to use the "findings" as a basis for regulatory proposals to the 09 session of the General Assembly has such an ominous sound that the average dog partnered deer hunter doesn't need to hear anything else to realize that something very dear to him is being put at big time risk. And he doesn't understand why. But he pretty quickly picks up that intended or not, this "study" will provide a made-for-media public forum for every group opposed to dog partnered hunting.. including the nut cases ..and that the news media is going to be right there at ringside salivating at the opportunity to sensationalize the charges made against us. Members of the General Assembly will be closely following the news media accounts containing these charges. Since most have no experience whatever with hunting, they'll be looking for info to capsulize the issues. Once the public hearings begin, perception will be driven by the what the media sensationalizes, not by the weight of the evidence. Calm, rational discourse doesn't sell newspapers. After the July VDGIF Richmond meeting, the Norfolk paper ran letters to the editor where the most charitable descriptions of dog partnered deer hunters were "pond scum", and from there went straight down to the bottom of the barrel. Ward says he ignores the media, which is a great strategy for a NASCAR driver since they get a repeat crack at the media every week, but we get essentially one chance and its over. We find it unpersuasive that an agency which professes to intend no harm to dog partnered hunting would use a vehicle which has its opponents in such a state of high glee. Bottom line, the media rather than VDGIF or us will end up controlling the perception which gets out there. PETA and other anti dog members VDGIF put on the study group will be egging on the media by continually leaking their side to the press. And PETA and the Humane Society, flush with Vick cash, will be furiously lobbying the General Assembly with the sensational charges.

And then there's the attempt to use the "scientific impartiality" of Va. Tech to sway the public when BD explicitly assured the Commissioners at the July meeting that Tech would be just running the study, he would be in charge. But this little detail's going right over the public's head.

In fact we have only to look back 3 or 4 years ago when a similar vehicle would have been launched by VDGIF but for a massive effort by dog based hunters. We refer to the attempt to severely restrict the use of the 50,000 or more dog tracking collars purchased at a cost of perhaps $15 million by dog partnered hunters.

Tracking collars allow dogs to be found, removed from the roads, and returned to the hunt. Hunters consider them to be the best thing to happen to dog partnered hunting since the beginning. Opponents of dog based hunting should applaud this technology since dogs are gathered from the hunt and off their lands, if that's where they were. Yes its true that perhaps more people use dogs now that they don't have to spend all night looking for them. Putting hunters using tracking collars on dogs at risk of tickets/summons/confiscations would certainly have driven a lot of hunters to give it up. Since the person said to be the author of, or signature to, this proposal is here tonight we'd like to request an explanation. I raise this old issue because absent some other explanation dog partnered hunters were forced to conclude that this proposed restriction went straight to the mindset and motives of VDGIF leaders regarding dog partnered hunting. Certainly the anecdotal story that the restriction attempt was launched because 5 or 6 bear hunters were using 1 in every 10,000 collars off dogs and on bait defies credulity. If that was true it would have been easy enough to ban the use of tracking collars in all hunting activities except on dogs, rather than use the bear bait situation as an excuse to penalize all 10,000+? dog partnered hunters who put tracking collars on their dogs . I clearly recall being stunned at the time, and plenty upset at having to divert nearly 2 whole days to the issue.

In case we are charged with not giving VDGIF the benefit of the doubt: 

Already told the Roanoke paper that dog based deer hunters have had their chance. Made sure to tell the press about the paper (International Paper, no longer the landowner) companies trying to get rid of dog based hunting, but never made any attempt to explain why this happened. Devil in the details. Somebody told the press about the Georgia 1000 acre rules, and it had to be from VDGIF. Somebody fed the line about "the many dog based deer hunters having to suffer for the sins of the few" to the Richmond TD as it was used by Lee Graves right after the July meeting, and no one at the meeting made any such assertion. Had to be from VDGIF. Or maybe used the Denny Quaiff conduit.


On Economic Impact Attributable to Dog Based Deer Hunters
We understand that The Governor has told some of his friends that it would not be feasible to ban dog based deer hunting since it puts $50 million into the Va. economy. That's about $700 per hunter. With IRS auto mileage allowances in the high forty cents, if one drove 1500 miles during the hunting season the $700 would be met from vehicle deprecation/expenses alone, leaving the cost of dogs, feed, truck dog boxes, veterinary expenses, tracking systems, CB radios, ammo, guns, clothing, hunt club land leases, food plots, road work, country store expenses, to be paid . Needless to say the $700 is way, way low, got to be up in the low thousands at least, bringing total direct money injection into the Va. Economy at over $200 million, economic impact to three times that amount ~$600million because of the way money turns over in the economy (see Field and Stream Magazine). We arrived at a figure of ~$3000/dog based deer hunter in Meck. County via asking hunt Club Presidents to sit down and add up what was being spent. When that $3000 is multiplied by the 70-75,000 dog based deer hunters East of Rt. 29, the sum comes to ~$225 million. Its just happens that $224 million is the value of the corn and soybean crops combined in Va. in 05. So the money we put in the economy, whatever it is, is serious money even when measured by Va. Agriculture standards, and surely greatly exceeds that put in by any other hunting group. We note in passing that its hardly imaginable that the Governor pulled that $50 million figure out of the air unless it was out of the air over the 4000 block of West Broad Street. 


Public Safety:. 
And then there's the huge positive public safety impact of thinning the deer herd on public (highway) safety. Rule of thumb is that the deer population doubles every three years when not hunted. The experience of some local lakeside communities (Merrifield at Clarksville comes to mind) which banned any acts of hunting deer bears this out. Within-community deer associated accident rates skyrocketed, the flower/ornamental plant population nearly vanished. 

In Va., insurance industry figures for reportable accidents with deer run to 45,000 and they're considered to be certainly low. At 45,000 accident, $1000 minimum per, that's a minimum of $45 million in damages again way low. I haven't gotten the figures for serious injuries and deaths from deer related accidents from Va., but they were 3-5 deaths/year and 60-70 in the most serious accident category (paraplegia, amputations, brain injuries, etc.) for NC some 12 years ago. (some of the above info from discussions with Nelson Lafon). 



Bottom line the general public's far more likely to be killed or seriously injured via a deer caused accident when the family car is put in the public road than from hunters, possibly some 100 times more. An accurate statistic attached to the above public safety difference would make a powerful sound bite. The VDGIF should go on the offensive on behalf of its hunter constituents, and spend some serious, targeted money publicizing the positive public safety effects of our (free) deer herd thinning. There's a lot of low hanging fruit here that's just begging to be used. Landowners have testified that the land lease fees obtained from hunt clubs help keep their land off the development market. This neatly dovetails with Governor Kaine's initiative to preserve land from development, which he has described (and Va. Wildlife magazine has featured) as the cornerstone of his environmental policy. 

Early Training season Dog Prohibition

On the issue of banning dog training in the early primitive weapons seasons should it come up:
A) Negatives associated with the early primitive weapons seasons per se:

What were originally primitive weapons have evolved into very high tech weapons, from single shot scoped rifles capable of killing a deer at well more than 100 yds., to high tech crossbows. What this amounts to is a full month of access to the deer resource not available to dog partnered hunters, resulting in a huge disadvantage to dog partnered hunters. Its ironic that dog partnered hunters helped the still hunters get these seasons implemented, and for our efforts got rewarded with losing access to the estimated half of the best bucks that don't make it to the general season in our area of the Southside. Many of the best breeding stock are killed during this early season before they have the chance to pass on their genes. Southampton has excluded itself from an early primitive weapons season.

So when the "primitive weapons" hunters find themselves angry when a trailing dog breaks the stillness, maybe they should pause to remember that the owner of that dog can't hunt over said dog for a month, i.e. be thankful for the big time 30 day advantage and not so greedy for more.

B)The banning of dog training or outside exercise during the month before Nov. 15 or whenever the season comes in will result in dogs not being in shape to really stay behind a deer till around the first week in Dec. There aren't nearly enough fox pens to accommodate all the dogs needing a run every week, and fox pens are a serious negative for introducing young dogs to the experience of learning to trail. No cold trailing or sticking behind on deer or fox who have gotten way ahead in a fox pen Cold or cool trailing an absolute necessity for deer dogs.


With respect to the issue of dogs destroying the experience of still hunters lets use the situation in Meck. county as an example. There seem to be about 38+ dog based deer hunt clubs. We decided to take the county tax map and shade in all the dog based hunt club lands hunted either by lease, permit, or ownership. We're about half through. The bottom line is that its looks like about 90% of the huntable land is hunted by these clubs. So all but a small percentage of the primitive weapons hunting takes place on dog based hunt club lands. The point of all this is that club members figure out among themselves how to optimize getting the dogs in shape before Nov. 15 vs. optimizing the still hunting experience ... with some coordination with adjoining clubs. Its pretty obvious for Mecklenburg that performing this exercise at the lowest level rather than from Richmond maximizes access to the deer resource for the most hunters. The areas in pink are either lakeside development which don't want dogs, or landowners who are known to have complained. The relative tiny size of the areas vs. the credence given to the complaints are instructive. 

There are quite a few more still-hunt-only clubs in Brunswick than Meck. Nelson Baird is not only a large landowner who leases land to both still and dog hunt clubs all over Meck., Lunenburg, and Bruns., but is President of the Genito Hunt Club on the Meck/Bruns. line whose dogs run deer into large (1000 acre) Norfolk based still hunt club territories often. I hope he will share his experience with us tonight. (Since the Norfolk clubs have figured out that they get more from the chance to kill a deer during a dog chase or from a dog chase stirring up their deer in the 9AM to 4PM period than they lose in the dawn and dusk periods, they're know they net out positive and there's never been anything but cooperation over many years.) We think this situation is far more representative than conflict situations which the VDGIF hears about.

Bottom line: Most of the complaining about dogs by still hunters is from large properties where the members are from the wealthy and connected segment of society, who are used to using money and access to power to achieve their desired ends, rather than respectful give and take with local hunters from a differ society strata. A secondary source of complaints is from (mostly small) landowners who spend a fair amount of time and effort on food plots and hunt only dawn or dusk over these plots. I have serious empathy with the latter still hunter, tempered by when the "primitive weapons" hunters find themselves angry when a trailing dog breaks the stillness, maybe they should pause to remember that the owner of that dog can't hunt over said dog for a month, i.e. be thankful and not so greedy.

Persistent Baiting by Still Hunters: 
Bring up the persistent baiting issue below only if the discussion gets focused on what Dog based hunters should give up because of our transgressions:
Describe the persistent baiting widely seen on Still Hunt only lands not seen on Dog based Hunt Club lands and ask rhetorically, what might be appropriate for them to have to give up. Refer to the feed dealers describing the huge spike in loose corn sales around early Oct. every year. Fall planted Silver Queen its not.

Bottom line I don't think there will be much if any ill will between Still and Dog hunters at this meeting. We should take this opportunity to focus on getting Bob Duncan on the record. May be our only chance


Remember: VDGIF figures indicate deer dog based vs. still hunters ratio, East of I-95, 70-30; 95 to 29, 50-50.
_________________________________________________________________


Deepzac, IS THIS PROOF ENOUGH?? I HAVE LOTS MORE

huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> *VA Hunting Dog Alliance "talking points" for a meeting that Ward Burton (DGIF Board Member) had in Wylliesburg VA to give everyone a chance to clear up all of the false allegations about the hound study!*_________________________________________________________________
> 
> Wylliesburg issues/talking points first draft:
> 
> On scare tactics/misrepresentations by VHDA:
> 
> With regard to alleged misrepresentations/scare tactics by the Va. Hunting Dog Alliance, a reading of the VDGIF message announcing the dog study, namely that VDGIF has decided to launch a study concerning the "Future of dog based hunting in Va.", and to use the "findings" as a basis for regulatory proposals to the 09 session of the General Assembly has such an ominous sound that the average dog partnered deer hunter doesn't need to hear anything else to realize that something very dear to him is being put at big time risk. And he doesn't understand why. But he pretty quickly picks up that intended or not, this "study" will provide a made-for-media public forum for every group opposed to dog partnered hunting.. including the nut cases ..and that the news media is going to be right there at ringside salivating at the opportunity to sensationalize the charges made against us. Members of the General Assembly will be closely following the news media accounts containing these charges. Since most have no experience whatever with hunting, they'll be looking for info to capsulize the issues. Once the public hearings begin, perception will be driven by the what the media sensationalizes, not by the weight of the evidence. Calm, rational discourse doesn't sell newspapers. After the July VDGIF Richmond meeting, the Norfolk paper ran letters to the editor where the most charitable descriptions of dog partnered deer hunters were "pond scum", and from there went straight down to the bottom of the barrel. Ward says he ignores the media, which is a great strategy for a NASCAR driver since they get a repeat crack at the media every week, but we get essentially one chance and its over. We find it unpersuasive that an agency which professes to intend no harm to dog partnered hunting would use a vehicle which has its opponents in such a state of high glee. Bottom line, the media rather than VDGIF or us will end up controlling the perception which gets out there. PETA and other anti dog members VDGIF put on the study group will be egging on the media by continually leaking their side to the press. And PETA and the Humane Society, flush with Vick cash, will be furiously lobbying the General Assembly with the sensational charges.
> 
> And then there's the attempt to use the "scientific impartiality" of Va. Tech to sway the public when BD explicitly assured the Commissioners at the July meeting that Tech would be just running the study, he would be in charge. But this little detail's going right over the public's head.
> 
> In fact we have only to look back 3 or 4 years ago when a similar vehicle would have been launched by VDGIF but for a massive effort by dog based hunters. We refer to the attempt to severely restrict the use of the 50,000 or more dog tracking collars purchased at a cost of perhaps $15 million by dog partnered hunters.
> 
> Tracking collars allow dogs to be found, removed from the roads, and returned to the hunt. Hunters consider them to be the best thing to happen to dog partnered hunting since the beginning. Opponents of dog based hunting should applaud this technology since dogs are gathered from the hunt and off their lands, if that's where they were. Yes its true that perhaps more people use dogs now that they don't have to spend all night looking for them. Putting hunters using tracking collars on dogs at risk of tickets/summons/confiscations would certainly have driven a lot of hunters to give it up. Since the person said to be the author of, or signature to, this proposal is here tonight we'd like to request an explanation. I raise this old issue because absent some other explanation dog partnered hunters were forced to conclude that this proposed restriction went straight to the mindset and motives of VDGIF leaders regarding dog partnered hunting. Certainly the anecdotal story that the restriction attempt was launched because 5 or 6 bear hunters were using 1 in every 10,000 collars off dogs and on bait defies credulity. If that was true it would have been easy enough to ban the use of tracking collars in all hunting activities except on dogs, rather than use the bear bait situation as an excuse to penalize all 10,000+? dog partnered hunters who put tracking collars on their dogs . I clearly recall being stunned at the time, and plenty upset at having to divert nearly 2 whole days to the issue.
> 
> In case we are charged with not giving VDGIF the benefit of the doubt:
> 
> Already told the Roanoke paper that dog based deer hunters have had their chance. Made sure to tell the press about the paper (International Paper, no longer the landowner) companies trying to get rid of dog based hunting, but never made any attempt to explain why this happened. Devil in the details. Somebody told the press about the Georgia 1000 acre rules, and it had to be from VDGIF. Somebody fed the line about "the many dog based deer hunters having to suffer for the sins of the few" to the Richmond TD as it was used by Lee Graves right after the July meeting, and no one at the meeting made any such assertion. Had to be from VDGIF. Or maybe used the Denny Quaiff conduit.
> 
> 
> On Economic Impact Attributable to Dog Based Deer Hunters
> We understand that The Governor has told some of his friends that it would not be feasible to ban dog based deer hunting since it puts $50 million into the Va. economy. That's about $700 per hunter. With IRS auto mileage allowances in the high forty cents, if one drove 1500 miles during the hunting season the $700 would be met from vehicle deprecation/expenses alone, leaving the cost of dogs, feed, truck dog boxes, veterinary expenses, tracking systems, CB radios, ammo, guns, clothing, hunt club land leases, food plots, road work, country store expenses, to be paid . Needless to say the $700 is way, way low, got to be up in the low thousands at least, bringing total direct money injection into the Va. Economy at over $200 million, economic impact to three times that amount ~$600million because of the way money turns over in the economy (see Field and Stream Magazine). We arrived at a figure of ~$3000/dog based deer hunter in Meck. County via asking hunt Club Presidents to sit down and add up what was being spent. When that $3000 is multiplied by the 70-75,000 dog based deer hunters East of Rt. 29, the sum comes to ~$225 million. Its just happens that $224 million is the value of the corn and soybean crops combined in Va. in 05. So the money we put in the economy, whatever it is, is serious money even when measured by Va. Agriculture standards, and surely greatly exceeds that put in by any other hunting group. We note in passing that its hardly imaginable that the Governor pulled that $50 million figure out of the air unless it was out of the air over the 4000 block of West Broad Street.
> 
> 
> Public Safety:.
> And then there's the huge positive public safety impact of thinning the deer herd on public (highway) safety. Rule of thumb is that the deer population doubles every three years when not hunted. The experience of some local lakeside communities (Merrifield at Clarksville comes to mind) which banned any acts of hunting deer bears this out. Within-community deer associated accident rates skyrocketed, the flower/ornamental plant population nearly vanished.
> 
> In Va., insurance industry figures for reportable accidents with deer run to 45,000 and they're considered to be certainly low. At 45,000 accident, $1000 minimum per, that's a minimum of $45 million in damages again way low. I haven't gotten the figures for serious injuries and deaths from deer related accidents from Va., but they were 3-5 deaths/year and 60-70 in the most serious accident category (paraplegia, amputations, brain injuries, etc.) for NC some 12 years ago. (some of the above info from discussions with Nelson Lafon).
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line the general public's far more likely to be killed or seriously injured via a deer caused accident when the family car is put in the public road than from hunters, possibly some 100 times more. An accurate statistic attached to the above public safety difference would make a powerful sound bite. The VDGIF should go on the offensive on behalf of its hunter constituents, and spend some serious, targeted money publicizing the positive public safety effects of our (free) deer herd thinning. There's a lot of low hanging fruit here that's just begging to be used. Landowners have testified that the land lease fees obtained from hunt clubs help keep their land off the development market. This neatly dovetails with Governor Kaine's initiative to preserve land from development, which he has described (and Va. Wildlife magazine has featured) as the cornerstone of his environmental policy.
> 
> Early Training season Dog Prohibition
> 
> On the issue of banning dog training in the early primitive weapons seasons should it come up:
> A) Negatives associated with the early primitive weapons seasons per se:
> 
> What were originally primitive weapons have evolved into very high tech weapons, from single shot scoped rifles capable of killing a deer at well more than 100 yds., to high tech crossbows. What this amounts to is a full month of access to the deer resource not available to dog partnered hunters, resulting in a huge disadvantage to dog partnered hunters. Its ironic that dog partnered hunters helped the still hunters get these seasons implemented, and for our efforts got rewarded with losing access to the estimated half of the best bucks that don't make it to the general season in our area of the Southside. Many of the best breeding stock are killed during this early season before they have the chance to pass on their genes. Southampton has excluded itself from an early primitive weapons season.
> 
> So when the "primitive weapons" hunters find themselves angry when a trailing dog breaks the stillness, maybe they should pause to remember that the owner of that dog can't hunt over said dog for a month, i.e. be thankful for the big time 30 day advantage and not so greedy for more.
> 
> 
> Persistent Baiting by Still Hunters:
> Bring up the persistent baiting issue below only if the discussion gets focused on what Dog based hunters should give up because of our transgressions:
> Describe the persistent baiting widely seen on Still Hunt only lands not seen on Dog based Hunt Club lands and ask rhetorically, what might be appropriate for them to have to give up. Refer to the feed dealers describing the huge spike in loose corn sales around early Oct. every year. Fall planted Silver Queen its not.
> 
> Bottom line I don't think there will be much if any ill will between Still and Dog hunters at this meeting. We should take this opportunity to focus on getting Bob Duncan on the record. May be our only chance
> 
> 
> Remember: VDGIF figures indicate deer dog based vs. still hunters ratio, East of I-95, 70-30; 95 to 29, 50-50.
> _________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> Deepzac, IS THIS PROOF ENOUGH?? I HAVE LOTS MORE
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Tim I have read over these many times and see no lies, cheating, or wrong doing. I see that this was a talking point. Just like the DGIF focus group meetings were a talking point to listen to ideals and suggestions. Why are you "a leader of another hound hunting group" wanting to bash Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance and a fellow Board member for making fellow sportsman aware of the hound hunting issues? I see no illegal activities or cheating by what you have posted and encourage you if you have something to please bring it forward and share it with me and I'll wash my hands from it.


----------



## huntwalkers

*I can tell but I can't make you understand*

Derrick,
If you can not understand what I have sent you, I'm sorry!!! I don't know how to make you understand.

I have no degree in how to erase brainwashing.

All I can say is THESE "Talking Points" do not resemble a group that is supposed to be preserving hound hunting by education!!!!!


huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> Derrick,
> If you can not understand what I have sent you, I'm sorry!!! I don't know how to make you understand.
> 
> I have no degree in how to erase brainwashing.
> 
> All I can say is THESE "Talking Points" do not resemble a group that is supposed to be preserving hound hunting by education!!!!!
> 
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!



Tim Perry, No one has brainwashed me and this was during a time Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance was just starting out and discussing issues with one another. I am sorry as I do not see were questioning the method or merit of DGIF or the Board members of DGIF on the hound hunting study is an attack futher more your path has lead you to work with the DGIF and ours has been to restructure the DGIF BOARD MEMBERS because of mismanagement of funds, mismanagement of the department and wildlife mismanagement and poor communication relations. These are whats going to preserve hunting in general in virginia.


----------



## huntwalkers

You did not ask me to see what or how I questioned DGIF & the Board Members.
You asked about VHDA???

Did you look at the State Board of Elections website??

IT IS ILLEGAL to "pass the hat" around to raise money for a political action committee!!

Do you want to tell me on a public forum that VHDA has not been doing this at the BASH RALLYS around the state?? I have witnesses so tell the truth. :zip:

They CAN'T get off of this one by claiming to be NON Profit Organization BECAUSE all of the funds have been going into CSA PAC.
According to IRS laws A NON PROFIT organization can only give 15% to a PAC.

*BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU ADMIT TO IN PUBLIC! *

huntwalkers
JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## deepzak

huntwalkers, you can contact me via PM, or email [email protected]

Hokie, you said you saw no wrong doing in the point paper posted by huntwalker? I saw one within 2 minutes of reading. 

[/QUOTE]Early Training season Dog Prohibition

On the issue of banning dog training in the early primitive weapons seasons should it come up:
A) Negatives associated with the early primitive weapons seasons per se:

What were originally primitive weapons have evolved into very high tech weapons, from single shot scoped rifles capable of killing a deer at well more than 100 yds., to high tech crossbows. What this amounts to is a full month of access to the deer resource not available to dog partnered hunters, resulting in a huge disadvantage to dog partnered hunters. Its ironic that dog partnered hunters helped the still hunters get these seasons implemented, and for our efforts got rewarded with losing access to the estimated half of the best bucks that don't make it to the general season in our area of the Southside. Many of the best breeding stock are killed during this early season before they have the chance to pass on their genes. Southampton has excluded itself from an early primitive weapons season.

So when the "primitive weapons" hunters find themselves angry when a trailing dog breaks the stillness, maybe they should pause to remember that the owner of that dog can't hunt over said dog for a month, i.e. be thankful for the big time 30 day advantage and not so greedy for more.[/QUOTE]

If I am not mistaken, running dogs on live animals is hunting, even with no gun. It says that no dogs may be run during any archery season. If you are running dogs during an archery season like your talking point paper says, you need to follow your own advise and go turn yourself in to a Game Warden for breaking the law, or is this paper wrong? Is it like Delegate Ware and misquoted?


----------



## Hokieman

> So when the "primitive weapons" hunters find themselves angry when a trailing dog breaks the stillness, maybe they should pause to remember that the owner of that dog can't hunt over said dog for a month, i.e. be thankful for the big time 30 day advantage and not so greedy for more.


I believe you misread the message.


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> You did not ask me to see what or how I questioned DGIF & the Board Members.
> You asked about VHDA???
> 
> Did you look at the State Board of Elections website??
> 
> IT IS ILLEGAL to "pass the hat" around to raise money for a political action committee!!
> 
> Do you want to tell me on a public forum that VHDA has not been doing this at the BASH RALLYS around the state?? I have witnesses so tell the truth. :zip:
> 
> They CAN'T get off of this one by claiming to be NON Profit Organization BECAUSE all of the funds have been going into CSA PAC.
> According to IRS laws A NON PROFIT organization can only give 15% to a PAC.
> 
> *BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU ADMIT TO IN PUBLIC! *
> 
> huntwalkers
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Tim I have been there and read the site, How about you pinpoint the chapter and verse that you are reffering too and I will go and look at it again. Thanks, on another note in case you haven't read our website.

We established the VHDA in response to the DGIF study on hounds and the general unresponsiveness of DGIF to Sportsmen’s concerns. It was felt that a new organization should not weaken existing groups, but work to strengthen all groups entering an Alliance. No membership fee is required, we ask Alliance groups and clubs to send a donation and provide their mailing list so that we support General Assembly members that are our friends and oppose those that work against out rights. Many clubs and organizations are holding fundraisers locally to help raise money for this Alliance.


----------



## huntwalkers

*Do I have to do all the investigating Hokieman?*

Hokieman,

Go to page 27 of 56 PAC Regulations on the state board of elections website its near the top of the page
PASS THE HAT
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/Campaign_Finance/PAC_Summary.pdf

REMEMBER, you said and I quote:
*"You know something I should know I ask again show me and I will wash my hands of it and shake your hand."*

*I don't want you to have to burn $3.00 gas to come shake BUT I'll check the VHDA website in a few minutes to see if you have had your name removed from the Board of Directors. *

huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> Hokieman,
> 
> Go to page 27 of 56 PAC Regulations on the state board of elections website its near the top of the page
> PASS THE HAT
> http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/Campaign_Finance/PAC_Summary.pdf
> 
> REMEMBER, you said and I quote:
> *"You know something I should know I ask again show me and I will wash my hands of it and shake your hand."*
> 
> *I don't want you to have to burn $3.00 gas to come shake BUT I'll check the VHDA website in a few minutes to see if you have had your name removed from the Board of Directors. *
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Tim again I have read it and found nothing that would support your complaint.
I would like to reffer you to page 9 of 56 and ask that you READ the definitions more closely this time. Here I will even copy them for you. No one in Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance is running for office and are no canidates.

Page 9 of 56
DEFINITIONS

Candidate – an individual who seeks nomination for election, or election to public office, in the Commonwealth of Virginia whether or not that person’s name is on the ballot. The definition includes ‘write-in’ candidates. An individual is considered, for campaign finance purposes only, a candidate
seeking nomination for election or re-election under the provisions of the Act if they have:
Provided payment of a filing fee for any party nomination method;
Submitted a Statement of Qualification form (see § 24.2-501) (whether or not funds or resources have been solicited, received or expended);
Personally, or through another person, solicited or received funds or other things of value, or made expenditures, including expenditures from personal funds, for the purpose of bringing about such individual’s nomination or election to any office;
Has been endorsed or nominated by a Political Party and is thus entitled to a position on the ballot at an election or primary (whether or not funds or resources have been solicited, received or expended);
Has otherwise been qualified for placement on the ballot pursuant to the election laws (whether or not funds or resources have been solicited, received or expended);
Has appointed a campaign treasurer, designated a campaign committee, or designated a campaign depository;
Has not filed a final report for the previous election cycle prior to a new election cycle’s begin date. In this instance, an individual will be considered a candidate for the same office in the succeeding election for administrative purposes (see §24.2-947).
Candidate Types:
• Local Candidate – Candidate for a city, county or town’s local or constitutional
offices.
• General Assembly Candidate – Candidate for Virginia State Senate or House ofDelegates.
• Statewide Candidate – Candidate for Governor, Lieutenant Governor or Attorney
General.

Candidate’s Campaign Committee – the committee designated by a candidate to receive all contributions and make all expenditures for them or on their behalf in connection with their nomination or election. A Candidate’s Campaign Committee may not be established for multiple candidates.


----------



## deepzak

Hokieman said:


> I believe you misread the message.


I believe this is for me, right? So I'll break it down for ya, because I believe YOU misread.

Early Training season Dog Prohibition

On the issue of banning dog training in the early primitive weapons seasons should it come up:
A) Negatives associated with the early primitive weapons seasons per se:

What were originally primitive weapons have evolved into very high tech weapons, from single shot scoped rifles capable of killing a deer at well more than 100 yds., to high tech crossbows. 
So when the "primitive weapons" hunters find themselves angry when a trailing dog breaks the stillness, maybe they should pause to remember that the owner of that dog can't hunt over said dog for a month, i.e. be thankful for the big time 30 day advantage and not so greedy for more.[/QUOTE]

If I am not mistaken, running dogs on live animals is hunting, even with no gun. It says that no dogs may be run during any archery season. If you are running dogs during an archery season like your talking point paper says, you need to follow your own advise and go turn yourself in to a Game Warden for breaking the law, or is this paper wrong? Is it like Delegate Ware and misquoted?[/QUOTE]

Highlights indicate Archery/bow season. BTW we really don't want to get into the greedy part of this do we? Because after all the dogs have chased the deer into oblivion and made them so nocturnal a raccoon would be lucky to see one, how much chance is there in late bow season? Not to mention the greed of "some clubs" (a minority in your words) running deer on others land, and out of season.

Just remember, for every finger you point, three are pointing right back at yourself. If all else fails, deny all knowledge and make counter accusations.:darkbeer:


----------



## Hokieman

deepzak said:


> I believe this is for me, right? So I'll break it down for ya, because I believe YOU misread.
> 
> Early Training season Dog Prohibition
> 
> On the issue of banning dog training in the early primitive weapons seasons should it come up:
> A) Negatives associated with the early primitive weapons seasons per se:
> 
> What were originally primitive weapons have evolved into very high tech weapons, from single shot scoped rifles capable of killing a deer at well more than 100 yds., to high tech crossbows.
> So when the "primitive weapons" hunters find themselves angry when a trailing dog breaks the stillness, maybe they should pause to remember that the owner of that dog can't hunt over said dog for a month, i.e. be thankful for the big time 30 day advantage and not so greedy for more.


If I am not mistaken, running dogs on live animals is hunting, even with no gun. It says that no dogs may be run during any archery season. If you are running dogs during an archery season like your talking point paper says, you need to follow your own advise and go turn yourself in to a Game Warden for breaking the law, or is this paper wrong? Is it like Delegate Ware and misquoted?[/QUOTE]

Highlights indicate Archery/bow season. BTW we really don't want to get into the greedy part of this do we? Because after all the dogs have chased the deer into oblivion and made them so nocturnal a raccoon would be lucky to see one, how much chance is there in late bow season? Not to mention the greed of "some clubs" (a minority in your words) running deer on others land, and out of season.

Just remember, for every finger you point, three are pointing right back at yourself. If all else fails, deny all knowledge and make counter accusations.:darkbeer:[/QUOTE]

If you see someone running dogs illegaly report them.:tongue:


----------



## huntwalkers

*Lifes Lesson*

Ive always heard " YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK!"

I guess this also applies to you can show the written facts but you can't make some understand! PAGE 27 of 56 NEAR THE TOP! PAC FUNDRAISING "Pass The Hat" ILLEGAL!

I really think I'm going to take up PRIMITIVE HUNTING full time, Because I can see now my hounds are history!!!! 


huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## deepzak

Hokieman said:


> If you see someone running dogs illegaly report them.:tongue:


That's what I am telling you to do, follow your own advise. VHDA openly admits to condoning running dogs during archery season. Report them. You claim to want everyone to report law breakers, let's see how dedicated you truely are.


----------



## 3sheets

Hokie, I don't know how to break this to ya, But it appears to me these gents are actually trying to help YOU out by showing you just what you got youself into. :zip:


3sheets :bounce:


----------



## Hokieman

deepzak said:


> That's what I am telling you to do, follow your own advise. VHDA openly admits to condoning running dogs during archery season. Report them. You claim to want everyone to report law breakers, let's see how dedicated you truely are.


I can't debate this because I wasn't a witness to it or to the discussion. This was an email directed to someone. I don't know who all saw it or who all edited it.


----------



## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> Hokie, I don't know how to break this to ya, But it appears to me these gents are actually trying to help YOU out by showing you just what you got youself into. :zip:
> 
> 
> 3sheets :bounce:


I appreciate their concerns but nothing they have showed me adds up to what they claim. I haven't done anything illegal and I am not worried about it.


----------



## huntwalkers

*FROM PAGE 27 of 56 State Board of Elections website- PAC Regulations*

*Common Fundraising Scenarios*
CFDA requires that all contributions collected by individuals for a committee be accompanied by certain identifying information. Anonymous contributions are illegal. As a result of this requirement, *SBE has provided some examples of fundraising scenarios to avoid:*

*Pass the Hat*
In a “pass the hat” scenario, the persons in the room may already be large contributors. Thus, any additional monies contributed would have to be reported. However, the contributor’s required information is not being gathered. Further, it is likely that someone in the room could contribute more than $100. *It is because of these issues that “pass the hat” fundraisers are considered illegal.*


Hokieman,
What part of this do you not see??
WASH THEM HANDS REAL GOOD LIKE YOU SAID YOU WOULD!:washing:


huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## deepzak

Hokieman said:


> I can't debate this because I wasn't a witness to it or to the discussion. This was an email directed to someone. I don't know who all saw it or who all edited it.


Close your eyes, plug your ears. See and hear only what you want. Bury your head in the sand. What ever euphanism you want to use, your blind to reality. My heart goes out to you for living a lie.....


----------



## Hokieman

deepzak said:


> Close your eyes, plug your ears. See and hear only what you want. Bury your head in the sand. What ever euphanism you want to use, your blind to reality. My heart goes out to you for living a lie.....


My heart goes out to you for being so gulliable:wink:


----------



## huntwalkers

*Sorry For Slowing The Hokie Hunt!!*

I know hunting season's over and hunting hokie was pretty fun. I just wanted to apologize to all of you for making him nocturnal!! I know it WAS DEFINATELY a hound hunters fault this time!!!!!!:wink:

Ain't it funny how sometimes the chasee becomes the chaser!

And now instead of selling :spam1: it's taking a while to figure out ways to try to cover it up!!!:confused2: 


CALL & EMAIL your House of Delegate Members TODAY! *Tell them to OPPOSE - VOTE NO on the house bill# 1352!*

You can also call 1-800-889-0229 & register your opinion to the General Assembly!

*AKA* - VHDA's "Ace in the Hole" Bill to gain control of DGIF!!!!!!


:cheers: To you all!!


huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> I know hunting season's over and hunting hokie was pretty fun. I just wanted to apologize to all of you for making him nocturnal!! I know it WAS DEFINATELY a hound hunters fault this time!!!!!!:wink:
> 
> Ain't it funny how sometimes the chasee becomes the chaser!
> 
> And now instead of selling :spam1: it's taking a while to figure out ways to try to cover it up!!!:confused2:
> 
> 
> CALL & EMAIL your House of Delegate Members TODAY! *Tell them to OPPOSE - VOTE NO on the house bill# 1352!*
> 
> You can also call 1-800-889-0229 & register your opinion to the General Assembly!
> 
> *AKA* - VHDA's "Ace in the Hole" Bill to gain control of DGIF!!!!!!
> 
> 
> :cheers: To you all!!
> 
> 
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Tim, You haven't proved nothing yet. You have made aqusations but that is it. I thought you had something more than talk. I guess not.:darkbeer:


----------



## Hokieman

*CALL & EMAIL your House of Delegate Members TODAY! Tell them to SUPPORT - VOTE YES on*

This fight is not about the DGIF study, it is about a Governor that has stacked the Board of DGIF with folks that will do his will regardless of the consequences. The study is a distraction, a ruse. He has already said to "friends" that he will introduce legislation to make it a misdemeanor to leave a dog out for more than 3 days (maybe he will teach us to talk to them so they will come home more quickly)! He says he is going to end the chase seasons on all game during spring turkey, fall archery and muzzle-loading seasons. His divide and conquer tactics will only work if we Sportsmen don't reach out to non-dog hunting sportsmen. Remember this is the same Tim Kaine that, as Mayor of the City of Richmond, used taxpayer money to send six bus loads of demonstrators to the "Million Mom March Against Guns" in Washington D.C. When confronted with the facts by the Richmond Times Dispatch, he lied about it. After they stayed on him, Kaine said he did it, but that he had the authority to do so. A week later he finally agreed that he should repay the money! Six months later a group of prominent liberals re-paid the money (but no interest).

This time Tim Kaine is using Sportsmen's license money to fund a bogus study to distract you. The study is going to release its findings in 2008 or 2009 in time for the next Governor to deal with. But Tim Kaine already has the conclusions he wants and has told "friends" about them! He will introduce them after this year's elections on November 6. You probably won't hear about them in the newspaper because they will be covered up with budget stories. P.E.T.A. and the Humane Society of the US are the groups behind this effort. Animal rights activists have made this a major political issue and the Governor is going to listen to his allies.

The real issue before the Sportsmen of Virginia is the conduct of the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. Do we want an agency that defends hunters and promotes our Heritage instead of treating us as if we are all criminals? Do we want to support an agency that puts law enforcement ahead of resource stewardship? Millions have been spent for non-game programs, while quail populations have dwindled with little or no funding for research or habitat improvement. Wildlife biologists have complained that State Parks do a better job of managing wildlife resources than they are allowed to do on Wildlife Management areas! Do we want an agency that spends our license money for their personal use and is generally wasteful of its financial resources and then cries for more money and higher license fees? 

For too long DGIF has promoted its arrest of game violators with press releases telling of more than a hundred criminal violations only to get convictions on four or five charges because the rest were trumped up! DGIF has many dedicated professional staff members that are our friends, but they are being driven out of the agency by poor treatment and even poorer management!

We need to return a Department of Game and Inland Fisheries devoted to promoting our sport, in the schools, colleges and universities of Virginia so that mothers raising their children will want to be involved in a wholesome family oriented activity that promotes individual responsibility, self reliance and stewardship of our God given resources.

Remember that the Governor proposes, but the General Assembly disposes. This battle will be fought and won or lost in the legislature. You all need to do this today! Excuses will not mean much if you have to tell your child or grandchildren that we used to be able to hunt in Virginia. The people of Great Britain have lost fox hunting, the Australians have lost the right to own guns and we have let them take God from our schools... How much more are you going to let them get away with??? More than Ten Thousand Virginians have joined the Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance and Commonwealth Sportsmen's Alliance standing shoulder to shoulder to stop this nonsense.

CALL & EMAIL your House of Delegate Members TODAY! Tell them to SUPPORT - VOTE YES on the HB1352!


----------



## Hokieman

Ask Yourself This Question. If This Hound Hunting Study Or These Actions Were Taken By The Wildlife Department In Any Other State, Every Sportsmen In America Would Call It Anti-hunting. Dgif Is Pointing To Their 91 Year History Of Support For Sportsman To Say Trust Us! I Say Look At Their Track Record For The Last 4 Year History Of This Board!

Restructuring The Dgif Board Is Key To Preserving Your Hunting Heritage For Future Generations. Call And Ask Your Delegate To Support Hb1352 Vote Yes.


----------



## huntwalkers

Hokieman said:


> *This fight is not about the DGIF study, it is about a Governor that has stacked the Board of DGIF with folks that will do his will regardless of the consequences. The study is a distraction, a ruse. He has already said to "friends" that he will introduce legislation to make it a misdemeanor to leave a dog out for more than 3 days (maybe he will teach us to talk to them so they will come home more quickly)! He says he is going to end the chase seasons on all game during spring turkey, fall archery and muzzle-loading seasons.*



QUESTINS FOR HOKIEMAN?? 
1) PROVE TO ME WHAT DGIF Board Members? And show me what "will of the Governor" each NAMED Board Member has done???

NAMES PLEASE??

2) Are you saying that you leave your **** dog at a tree for 3 days or longer??




> *His divide and conquer tactics will only work if we Sportsmen don't reach out to non-dog hunting sportsmen*


1) Why & how do you & VHDA think you can reach out to other non-dog hunting sportsman if you want to have open chase season during thier still hunting seasons??

2) If you hunt legally as you stated, What difference does it make if DGIF ammends the hunting regulations so that those that don't and turn their hounds out during Spring Gobbler, Bow, & ML seasons have to pay the price?

*THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO BRING NON-DOG HUNTING SPORTSMAN TOGETHER!!!!!!!*

PLEASE LOOK UP FAIR & ETHICAL in a dictionary before you respond!


*Statements like this is what makes the ethical houndsman LOOK BAD!* 

___________________________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> QUESTINS FOR HOKIEMAN??
> 1) PROVE TO ME WHAT DGIF Board Members? And show me what "will of the Governor" each NAMED Board Member has done???
> 
> NAMES PLEASE??
> 
> 2) Are you saying that you leave your **** dog at a tree for 3 days or longer??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Why & how do you & VHDA think you can reach out to other non-dog hunting sportsman if you want to have open chase season during thier still hunting seasons??
> 
> 2) If you hunt legally as you stated, What difference does it make if DGIF ammends the hunting regulations so that those that don't and turn their hounds out during Spring Gobbler, Bow, & ML seasons have to pay the price?
> 
> *THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO BRING NON-DOG HUNTING SPORTSMAN TOGETHER!!!!!!!*
> 
> PLEASE LOOK UP FAIR & ETHICAL in a dictionary before you respond!
> 
> 
> *Statements like this is what makes the ethical houndsman LOOK BAD!*
> 
> ___________________________
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Tim I hunt fair and ethical and feel that exsiting virginia laws and dgif game laws and regulations are not the problem it is the enforcement of those laws and lack of enforcement. Instead of creating a hound hunting study DGIF should have hired more enforcement officers to effectively enforce their laws.


----------



## Hokieman

Governor needs to tell DGIF board to do its job
By Bill Cochran


Bill Cochran

Since 1916, the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries has been known as one of the finest conservation agencies in the word, but that reputation has been tarnished in recent months. The agency has struggled under controversy to the point that its mission of managing wildlife resources and providing outdoor recreation for the citizens of he Commonwealth is being impeded.


It is time for Gov. Warner to step in and shake up the leadership and order the agency to spend funds and efforts on things that count and to involve people rather than control them. 


Lacking that, there is going to be a blood bath that has potential for damaging the department beyond easy repair by alienating people who have worked side-by-side in the conservation movement. 


This is more than a family squabble. The hunter, angler and boater remain the biggest supporters of conservation efforts in the state. If the agency that represents them fails to do its job, then someone is certain to promote a plan to wrestle management of wildlife resources and recreation away from those who have championed it for more than 80 years. That’s just how serious this thing is. 


Who is the blame for all of the discontent?


Getting the spotlight, and rightfully so, have been Bill Woodfin, DGIF executive director; Dan Hoffler, board chairman, and game wardens Col. Terry Bradbery and Maj. Mike Caison. 


Let me look beyond this foursome for a moment and point a finger at the DGIF board. The assignment of the 11-member board, which is appointed by the governor, isn’t to micromanage the agency, but to hold it accountable. It has failed to do that. 


Board members have been docile while those who have captured control of the department operate with a “What’s in it for me,” autocratic mentality that has kept loyal and talented employees and the public at arm’s length. 


Board Chairman Hoffler has been quoted as saying that complaints are coming from “a small group of people” and he has questioned their motives when they have asked tough questions or promoted alternate views. 


Critics don’t just have a right to ask questions, they have a duty, and no one should be offended when they do. What’s more, it isn’t just a small group of troublemakers causing problems. There is a swelling wave of discontent that isn’t going away. New recruits are added daily as people learn the facts. 


Leon Turner is one man intent on people learning the facts. From the Fincastle area, Turner served on the DGIF board for eight years, including two as chairman, in the late 1980s and early 90s. He has collected a stack of documents on the recent problems at the DGIF and has been traveling the byways of Virginia with about 40 names of past board members in hand, intent on contacting as many of them as he can for support. 


Turner’s message is this: “Director Woodfin and other top management personnel involved in this matter need to resign and new management created to get this agency back on its feet.” 


A high-profile ally was gained when J. Carson Quarles of Roanoke told Turner to add his name as a supporter. Quarles was reluctant to do so at first. “It was a very difficult decision for me,” he said. 


Quarles, a Republican, served as chairman of the board four years, until 2002 when he was discharged by Gov. Warner and replaced with Hoffler, a Democrat. 


A front-page article in the Richmond Times-Dispatch last week presented the DGIF crisis as a political squabble. While politics and conservation are inextricably linked, the problems at the DGIF go way beyond politics. Sportsmen need to be fully aware of that fact. 


If the governor doesn’t resolve the issues at DGIF, it will be left to the sitting board to do so, and that is a scary point. Board members routinely rubber-stamps Woodfin’s requests, ask few questions, offers fewer suggestions and seldom engages in meaningful open discussion. They have stood by while constitutes and employees have being abused. 


Hoffler says he isn’t going to back down his “We haven’t done anything wrong” position. He told the Virginian-Pilot in Norfolk that the current board remains unanimously behind Woodfin. 


Past board members, headed by Turner, are scheduled to ask for Woodfin and his cohorts to step down during a March 24 DGIF board meeting in Richmond. Hoffler will be in charge of the meeting, unless the governor says otherwise. 


Turner would like nothing better than for the governor to step in and set things right. If he does, Turner said he would take the stack of damaging documents he has gathered for the board meeting and burn them in his backyard. 


One way or another, this issue is going to produce fire. Smoke rising over Fincastle is preferable to smoke above Richmond.


----------



## huntwalkers

Hokieman said:


> This fight is not about the DGIF study, it is about a Governor that has stacked the Board of DGIF with folks that will do his will regardless of the consequences.



YOU really have to catch up with the times this is 2008!!
ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS OLD ARTICLE were either fired, resigned or the Board Seats reappointed !!

Do you even know who the eleven CURRENT DGIF Board Members are?

Have you personally talked to ANY or all eleven of the CURRENT Board Members about this hound study?

How many DGIF Board Meetings have YOU attended in the last year?

YOU REALLY GOT TO START CONFIRMING THE INFO. THAT KIRBY IS FEEDING YOU BEFORE YOU PLASTER IT ON THE INTERNET!

BRAINWASHED is the word that comes to mind??:embara:

____________________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> YOU really have to catch up with the times this is 2008!!
> ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS OLD ARTICLE were either fired, resigned or the Board Seats reappointed !!
> 
> Do you even know who the eleven CURRENT DGIF Board Members are?
> 
> Have you personally talked to ANY or all eleven of the CURRENT Board Members about this hound study?
> 
> How many DGIF Board Meetings have YOU attended in the last year?
> 
> YOU REALLY GOT TO START CONFIRMING THE INFO. THAT KIRBY IS FEEDING YOU BEFORE YOU PLASTER IT ON THE INTERNET!
> 
> BRAINWASHED is the word that comes to mind??:embara:
> 
> ____________________
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Tim I am beganing to see who is brainwashed, You really have your head to far up the rear of the DGIF. Are you their spokes person or cheerleader.


----------



## Hokieman

A raid on fishing funds
Bill Cochran's Field Reports

Trout stocking schedule 

A move by Gov. Tim Kaine to divert $400,000 in saltwater fishing license funds to the General Fund to help offset a state budget shortfall is not boding well with anglers who say they will bring the matter up in the General Assembly. 
While some of the diverted funds would be earmarked for things that benefit fishermen, such as marine patrols, the fact is accountability to recreational anglers would be lost. License money currently is assigned to programs and projects through a special board.

Anglers who are critical say the diversion likely would continue into future budgets, and there is little chance sportsmen ever would recoup the money.

When Douglas Wilder was governor, $1.2 million was taken from Department of Game and Inland Fisheries funds. It took four years before the money was retrieved for its intended purposes, and only then through the diligent work of the late A. Victor Thomas, the veteran legislator from Roanoke.

As the General Assembly begins, sportsmen certainly could use another Vic Thomas. 

BILL 

OUTDOOR BRIEFS


----------



## Hokieman

*Poor wildlife management by DGIF*

Turkey flocks small and scattered
Bill Cochran's Field Reports

What can turkey hunters expect when the fall season opens Saturday? The answer is small flocks of birds that are scattered throughout the woodlands. 

That means challenging hunting, but success should be better than last year, when the fall kill was a sorry 4,428 birds. It can’t get much worse than that. 

“I’ve been seeing a fair amount of turkeys, but mostly still in small family size groups of five to 10 birds. No really big flocks yet,” said Freddy McGuire, who is host of a turkey hunting Web site, vaturkey.com.

McGuire believes the abundance of mast is keeping the turkeys scattered. 

“The amount of mast is incredible,” he said. Oak mast -- white, red, chestnut -- is overflowing in the areas he has scouted. “There doesn’t seem to be many beechnuts, but the extra acorns should more than make up for it.”

Turkeys can better escape the attention of hunters and other predators during heavy food years. They don’t have to range as far to fill their corps and they don’t have to concentrate on scattered food sources where hunters can wait in ambush. A heavy mast season favors the turkeys and the experienced hunters. 

Virginia’s turkey take has been in a nosedive the past five years. It was 11,891 in 2001; 8,084 in 2002; 6,556 in 2003; 5,565 in 2004 and 4,428 in 2005. Wildlife officials blame the decline on poor reproduction years which are the result of unfavorable weather during the key hatching period. 

Details of this spring’s hatch really won’t be known until the fall season ends and wildlife officials can use turkey feathers provided by successful hunters to determine the adult-to-juvenile ratio of the flocks. Early observations indicate that there are good numbers of the big birds. 

BILL


----------



## Hokieman

*No Game Management By Dgif*

Grouse season holds little promise
Bill Cochran's Field Reports


Bill Cochran
Recent field reports
How big do stripers get?
Sunday hunting update
Many witnesses to be called
A raid on fishing funds
Field reports archive 
Bill's Column 
Bill's Mail 
Trout stocking schedule 
This isn’t an easy time to be a grouse hunter. The population of this popular game bird is on the skids.

There has been a 3.1-percent annual decline in the breeding population the past 10 years, according to analyses of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. That amounts to more than a 30-percent decline in a decade.

Last year, hunters flushed a measly 0.85 grouse per hour of hunting, the worst flush rate in 17 years, and the third worst since records have been kept starting with the 1973-74 season. In the Southern Appalachians, hunters report a return of one grouse for every 10 hours of hunting.

With the new season opening just five days ago, it is too early to determine if flushes will go up or down this time, but the prospects for a recovery aren’t there. The breeding population remains low, according to Gary Norman, a DGIF biologist.

Just what is behind the downward trend is debatable, but Norman has a pretty good idea. Early successional habitat, the kind grouse need for food and cover, has declined on most public lands, particularly on the national forests in Virginia. That’s because logging has declined. The result is that while the national forest once was the place to pursue grouse, flush rates now are better on private land--1.08 compared to 0.73.

Add to the problem, mast conditions have been poor during three of the last five years. Recent research reveals that grouse reproduction is closely tied to the wellbeing of the females, and the females are in the best conditions when the acorn crop hits, as it has this year.

It should come as no surprise that hunters using dogs flush and kill more grouse than non-dog hunters. But the DGIF annual grouse survey reveals that hunter satisfaction last season was slightly higher among sportsmen who did not use dogs. 

Maybe there simply aren’t enough grouse nowadays to train a dog to become the kind of grouse hunting companion it has potential of being, thus the result is frustration. 

So why bother with grouse hunting?

“It nevertheless can be very enjoyable, particularly on those days when the dogs work well, the birds hold tight and your aim is true,” said Norman.

BILL


----------



## Hokieman

Ask Yourself This Question. If This Hound Hunting Study Or These Actions Were Taken By The Wildlife Department In Any Other State, Every Sportsmen In America Would Call It Anti-hunting. Dgif Is Pointing To Their 91 Year History Of Support For Sportsman To Say Trust Us! I Say Look At Their Track Record For The Last 4 Year History Of This Board!

Restructuring The Dgif Board Is Key To Preserving Your Hunting Heritage For Future Generations. Call And Ask Your Delegate To Support Hb1352 Vote Yes.


----------



## deepzak

Hokieman said:


> Tim I am beganing to see who is brainwashed, You really have your head to far up the rear of the DGIF. Are you their spokes person or cheerleader.


Hokie, I have to wonder who has whose head up whose rear end? When I googled Mr. Burch, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=h.kirby+burch I read some of the comments sections. I noticed that he himself did not respond, but had you do it for him. Is he soooooo busy that he cant do his own rethoric spewing? Or do you just spew forth what ever line he hands you with out thinking about what your saying? 

I have to question his motives due to the fact that when he did hold office, he utilized his position to garner himself above the law. Who else does not have to follow the hunting season in Back Bay? Who else is allowed to carry a firearm on a roadway and discharge it in a State Park? He was NOT a police officer in any form, nor was he discharging his duty. But he pulled a dog chaser tactic and jumped through an open loop hole. Maybe it's time to close some of those loop holes and strangle the jumpers. I did notice that he is registered as a professional lobbyist, in other words, a politician. I wonder what he is getting paid versus how much he wishes to make when if he gets himself into the DGIF board. Will he then still be a part of the VHDA? That would pose a conflict of interest wouldn't it? If he's not going to be a part of your organization, why would you blindly follow someone so willing to jump ship at the first opportunity to further himself? Is it because he would be easily swayed (somehow )to the dog hunters way of thinking (like he doesn't think like them already)?

On a side note: When we gonna do that **** hunt? 3sheets, whens a good time for you?:wink:


----------



## 3sheets

deepzak said:


> On a side note: When we gonna do that **** hunt? 3sheets, whens a good time for you?:wink:


Zak,

How does never sound? I don't think we'll (at least not me) be going on any sort of **** Hunt with Hokieman; here lately, I'v lost what small amount trust I had in him. It's time to move with a different program. :wink:


----------



## Hokieman

deepzak said:


> Hokie, I have to wonder who has whose head up whose rear end? When I googled Mr. Burch, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=h.kirby+burch I read some of the comments sections. I noticed that he himself did not respond, but had you do it for him. Is he soooooo busy that he cant do his own rethoric spewing? Or do you just spew forth what ever line he hands you with out thinking about what your saying?
> 
> I have to question his motives due to the fact that when he did hold office, he utilized his position to garner himself above the law. Who else does not have to follow the hunting season in Back Bay? Who else is allowed to carry a firearm on a roadway and discharge it in a State Park? He was NOT a police officer in any form, nor was he discharging his duty. But he pulled a dog chaser tactic and jumped through an open loop hole. Maybe it's time to close some of those loop holes and strangle the jumpers. I did notice that he is registered as a professional lobbyist, in other words, a politician. I wonder what he is getting paid versus how much he wishes to make when if he gets himself into the DGIF board. Will he then still be a part of the VHDA? That would pose a conflict of interest wouldn't it? If he's not going to be a part of your organization, why would you blindly follow someone so willing to jump ship at the first opportunity to further himself? Is it because he would be easily swayed (somehow )to the dog hunters way of thinking (like he doesn't think like them already)?
> 
> On a side note: When we gonna do that **** hunt? 3sheets, whens a good time for you?:wink:


You help 3 sheets plant that corn and I'll invite you up to the cabin during deer season and we'll discuss it then. time for church.:wink:


----------



## Hokieman

*Support Hb1352 Vote Yes - Change Is Good*

Cline seeks to rein in illegal workers, DGIF spending
By Ray Reed
[email protected]
Monday, January 21, 2008


RICHMOND - Del. Ben Cline wants to tighten restrictions on hiring illegal workers, and he also wants the state to put a microscope on money handled by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries.

The illegal-workers bill results from perceptions of unfair business competition, Cline said, and the Game and Inland Fisheries bills grew out of spending habits that have resulted in indictments of three top officials in DGIF.

Two bills that Cline, R-Rockbridge, is proposing in the General Assembly this year were inspired by an attorney general’s investigation of reports by the state auditor that Game and Fisheries officials bought expensive shotguns, went on an African safari with $11,000 in hunting gear purchased on a state credit card, and otherwise used department funds in ways that led to criminal indictments. The money was later repaid.

Still, Cline said, he and the attorney general agree that kind of thing shouldn’t happen again.

“There are a lot of sportsmen in my district who are concerned about mismanagement of DGIF resources that were funded by their license fees,” Cline said.

“We need to not only shed some sunlight on DGIF operations, we also need to improve our embezzlement statutes to prevent that kind of activity,” Cline said.

One of his bills would require the DGIF’s director to submit a quarterly accounting of the expenses he controls to the governor’s Secretary of Natural Resources, and also execute a security bond based on performance of his duties.

Another of Cline’s DGIF-related bills would classify as embezzlement any misuse or misappropriation of public assets, such as the gear purchased on the state credit card, he said.

The illegal-workers bill has bipartisan support, Cline said, with Sen. Charles Colgan, D-Manassas, backing the measure in the Senate.

“It’s one of the few

immigration bills that might get out” of the legislature and into the governor’s office for a signature that would make it law, Cline said.

The bill would require public contractors and subcontractors to use a federal electronic work verification program to certify their employees are legally eligible for employment in the United States.

In his district, Cline said, “I’ve seen lawn mowing companies who are consistently underbid for state contracts by companies that they believe are hiring a significant number of illegal workers.”

Cline said he’s “working with the business community to make sure it’s not imposing an unacceptable burden” by requiring employers to make costly and time-consuming background checks on

workers.


----------



## huntwalkers

*I DON'T see Delegate Cline HERE??*

HOUSE BILL NO. 1352 
Offered January 9, 2008 
Prefiled January 9, 2008 
A BILL to amend and reenact § 2.2-107 of the Code of Virginia; to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 29.1-102.1; and to repeal § 29.1-102 of the Code of Virginia, relating to the composition of the Board of Game and Inland Fisheries. 
---------- 

Patrons-- Ware, R.L., Abbitt, Cole, Crockett-Stark, Gilbert, Hargrove, Ingram, Landes, Marshall, D.W., Morgan, O'Bannon, Peace, Pogge, Poindexter, Saxman and Wright; Senator: Ruff 

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?ses=081&typ=bil&val=hb1352 
__________________________________________ 

These are the General Assembly Members that are Patrons of house bill 1352 & RECIEVED Campaign Danations in 2007 from CSA PAC which VHDA is part of so their website says.. 

1) Delegate - R. Lee Ware Jr. 
2) Delegate - Watkins M. Abbitt Jr. 
3) Delegate - Daniel Marshall III 
4) Delegate - Thomas C. Wright Jr. 
5) Senator - Frank M. Ruff 

These are the ones REPORTED on the State Board of Elections website www.sbe.virginia.gov each recieving $250 donations towards their 2007 campaign. It is not illegal for CSA PAC to give OR GA members to receive donations, BUT This looks MIGHTY SUSPICIOUS since VHDA website says quote:*STRONGLY SUPPORT – VHDA Bill. *

*HOW are our GA Members supposed to make Laws *- What is best for the state? OR By who donates money? 

*DON'T YOU LOVE HOW OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS!! *:devil:

Call & Email Your General Assembly Members - IMMEDIATELY! 
*OPPOSE House bill # 1352 - VOTE NO *

_____________________ 
huntwalkers 

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> I appreciate their concerns but nothing they have showed me adds up to what they claim. I haven't done anything illegal and I am not worried about it.





3sheets said:


> Zak,
> 
> How does never sound? I don't think we'll (at least not me) be going on any sort of **** Hunt with Hokieman; here lately, I'v lost what small amount trust I had in him. It's time to move with a different program. :wink:


Zak, I trust that you can read "between the lines" a whole hell of a lot better than Derick can. I'm also almost sure you will catch the drift of my new siggy as well. :wink:

Derick, no **** hunts or corn; if it's any of your business, I'v switched to beans. Time will tell if the VHDA, yourself, and even some our legislators have done anything illegal.

Huntwalkers, thanks!


----------



## 3sheets

huntwalkers said:


> HOUSE BILL NO. 1352
> Offered January 9, 2008
> Prefiled January 9, 2008
> A BILL to amend and reenact § 2.2-107 of the Code of Virginia; to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 29.1-102.1; and to repeal § 29.1-102 of the Code of Virginia, relating to the composition of the Board of Game and Inland Fisheries.
> ----------
> 
> Patrons-- Ware, R.L., Abbitt, Cole, Crockett-Stark, Gilbert, Hargrove, Ingram, Landes, Marshall, D.W., Morgan, O'Bannon, Peace, Pogge, Poindexter, Saxman and Wright; Senator: Ruff
> 
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?ses=081&typ=bil&val=hb1352
> __________________________________________
> 
> These are the General Assembly Members that are Patrons of house bill 1352 & RECIEVED Campaign Danations in 2007 from CSA PAC which VHDA is part of so their website says..
> 
> 1) Delegate - R. Lee Ware Jr.
> 2) Delegate - Watkins M. Abbitt Jr.
> 3) Delegate - Daniel Marshall III
> 4) Delegate - Thomas C. Wright Jr.
> 5) Senator - Frank M. Ruff
> 
> These are the ones REPORTED on the State Board of Elections website www.sbe.virginia.gov each recieving $250 donations towards their 2007 campaign. It is not illegal for CSA PAC to give OR GA members to receive donations, BUT This looks MIGHTY SUSPICIOUS since VHDA website says quote:*STRONGLY SUPPORT – VHDA Bill. *
> 
> *HOW are our GA Members supposed to make Laws *- What is best for the state? OR By who donates money?
> 
> *DON'T YOU LOVE HOW OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS!! *:devil:
> 
> Call & Email Your General Assembly Members - IMMEDIATELY!
> *OPPOSE House bill # 1352 - VOTE NO *
> 
> _____________________
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


May I also strongly suggest that if your leglislator happens to be on the patrons list ... 
Ware, R.L., Abbitt, Cole, Crockett-Stark, Gilbert, Hargrove, Ingram, Landes, Marshall, D.W., Morgan, O'Bannon, Peace, Pogge, Poindexter, Saxman and Wright; Senator: Ruff 
... that you peruse their contributions for any from relatives, especially in the $750, $500, or $250 amounts. :wink:


----------



## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> Zak, I trust that you can read "between the lines" a whole hell of a lot better than Derick can. I'm also almost sure you will catch the drift of my new siggy as well. :wink:
> 
> Derick, no **** hunts or corn; if it's any of your business, I'v switched to beans. Time will tell if the VHDA, yourself, and even some our legislators have done anything illegal.
> 
> Huntwalkers, thanks!



That's good. I was really tired of pampering you.ukey:


----------



## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> That's good. I was really tired of pampering you.ukey:


Yeah, and I got rather sick of your "playing dumb" routine as well ... Suffice to say the gloves are off, and your going down !!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> HOUSE BILL NO. 1352
> Offered January 9, 2008
> Prefiled January 9, 2008
> A BILL to amend and reenact § 2.2-107 of the Code of Virginia; to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 29.1-102.1; and to repeal § 29.1-102 of the Code of Virginia, relating to the composition of the Board of Game and Inland Fisheries.
> ----------
> 
> Patrons-- Ware, R.L., Abbitt, Cole, Crockett-Stark, Gilbert, Hargrove, Ingram, Landes, Marshall, D.W., Morgan, O'Bannon, Peace, Pogge, Poindexter, Saxman and Wright; Senator: Ruff
> 
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?ses=081&typ=bil&val=hb1352
> __________________________________________
> 
> These are the General Assembly Members that are Patrons of house bill 1352 & RECIEVED Campaign Danations in 2007 from CSA PAC which VHDA is part of so their website says..
> 
> 1) Delegate - R. Lee Ware Jr.
> 2) Delegate - Watkins M. Abbitt Jr.
> 3) Delegate - Daniel Marshall III
> 4) Delegate - Thomas C. Wright Jr.
> 5) Senator - Frank M. Ruff
> 
> These are the ones REPORTED on the State Board of Elections website www.sbe.virginia.gov each recieving $250 donations towards their 2007 campaign. It is not illegal for CSA PAC to give OR GA members to receive donations, BUT This looks MIGHTY SUSPICIOUS since VHDA website says quote:*STRONGLY SUPPORT – VHDA Bill. *
> 
> *HOW are our GA Members supposed to make Laws *- What is best for the state? OR By who donates money?
> 
> *DON'T YOU LOVE HOW OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS!! *:devil:
> 
> Call & Email Your General Assembly Members - IMMEDIATELY!
> *OPPOSE House bill # 1352 - VOTE NO *
> 
> _____________________
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


"The man who fears no truths has nothing to fear from lies." 


-- Sir Francis Bacon


----------



## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> Yeah, and I got rather sick of your "playing dumb" routine as well ... Suffice to say the gloves are off, and your going down !!


Lol grow up. Nothing Tim has showed you is proof of wrong doing. It is his creative interpretation of it that has caused fools to gape.:wink:


----------



## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> "The man who fears no truths has nothing to fear from lies."
> -- Sir Francis Bacon


"If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you can be reasonably sure it is a duck" -- author unknown (possibly from the school of hard knocks)


----------



## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> Lol grow up. Nothing Tim has showed you is proof of wrong doing. It is his creative interpretation of it that has caused fools to gape.:wink:


Only a fool, such as yourself, would think that I'm relying solely on Tim's info or anyone elses for that matter. I enjoy doing my own research and of course will use anything that happens to "fall right into my lap".


----------



## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you can be reasonably sure it is a duck" -- author unknown (possibly from the school of hard knocks)


If it looks to good to be true then it probaly isn't.


----------



## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> Only a fool, such as yourself, would think that I'm relying solely on Tim's info or anyone elses for that matter. I enjoy doing my own research and of course will use anything that happens to "fall right into my lap".


You won't find nothing illegal here, so search away.:tongue:


----------



## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> Turkey flocks small and scattered
> Bill Cochran's Field Reports
> 
> What can turkey hunters expect when the fall season opens Saturday? The answer is small flocks of birds that are scattered throughout the woodlands.
> 
> That means challenging hunting, but success should be better than last year, when the fall kill was a sorry 4,428 birds. It can’t get much worse than that.
> 
> “I’ve been seeing a fair amount of turkeys, but mostly still in small family size groups of five to 10 birds. No really big flocks yet,” said Freddy McGuire, who is host of a turkey hunting Web site, vaturkey.com.
> 
> McGuire believes the abundance of mast is keeping the turkeys scattered.
> 
> “The amount of mast is incredible,” he said. Oak mast -- white, red, chestnut -- is overflowing in the areas he has scouted. “There doesn’t seem to be many beechnuts, but the extra acorns should more than make up for it.”
> 
> Turkeys can better escape the attention of hunters and other predators during heavy food years. They don’t have to range as far to fill their corps and they don’t have to concentrate on scattered food sources where hunters can wait in ambush. A heavy mast season favors the turkeys and the experienced hunters.
> 
> Virginia’s turkey take has been in a nosedive the past five years. It was 11,891 in 2001; 8,084 in 2002; 6,556 in 2003; 5,565 in 2004 and 4,428 in 2005. Wildlife officials blame the decline on poor reproduction years which are the result of unfavorable weather during the key hatching period.
> 
> Details of this spring’s hatch really won’t be known until the fall season ends and wildlife officials can use turkey feathers provided by successful hunters to determine the adult-to-juvenile ratio of the flocks. Early observations indicate that there are good numbers of the big birds.
> 
> BILL


Great ammo for Sunday hunting of predators!! Also, I wonder if Bill happens to know if his information is being plastered all over the internet without any sort of link to the actual column?


----------



## 3sheets

Hummm, suddenly there is silence, not unexpected I might add.


----------



## huntwalkers

HOKIE, HOKIE, HOKIE,

For months I have been pretty silent many of you at VHDA thought I had give up!! 

WRONG - as your fearless leader likes to say "I was preparing for WAR"! 

But you see the difference between him and me is - I HAVE FACTS, PROOF & the TRUTH to fight with, NOT just FABRICATED STORIES, LIES, ANGER & HATE!

I tried to play nice, But you all refused and personally attacked me and many others! SO Continue to spew forth the VHDA LIES & I promise you I will be there to show the truth!!!!!!

*I WILL NOT Stand by and let You, VA Hunting Dog Alliance or anyone else DESTROY Hound hunting for us all!!!*

*CHANGE IS COMING*- AND IF YOU CAN'T HUNT RIGHT - YOU WILL NOT BE HUNTING AT ALL! Soon all of the ethical houndsman will be admired instead of hated by our fellow hunters & sportsman in VA.

_____________________ 
huntwalkers 
Timothy W. Perry Sr.

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## Hokieman

huntwalkers said:


> HOKIE, HOKIE, HOKIE,
> 
> For months I have been pretty silent many of you at VHDA thought I had give up!!
> 
> WRONG - as your fearless leader likes to say "I was preparing for WAR"!
> 
> But you see the difference between him and me is - I HAVE FACTS, PROOF & the TRUTH to fight with, NOT just FABRICATED STORIES, LIES, ANGER & HATE!
> 
> I tried to play nice, But you all refused and personally attacked me and many others! SO Continue to spew forth the VHDA LIES & I promise you I will be there to show the truth!!!!!!
> 
> *I WILL NOT Stand by and let You, VA Hunting Dog Alliance or anyone else DESTROY Hound hunting for us all!!!*
> 
> *CHANGE IS COMING*- AND IF YOU CAN'T HUNT RIGHT - YOU WILL NOT BE HUNTING AT ALL! Soon all of the ethical houndsman will be admired instead of hated by our fellow hunters & sportsman in VA.
> 
> _____________________
> huntwalkers
> Timothy W. Perry Sr.
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Tim that is calling the kettle black, who attacked who? The Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance is working to secure, for posterity, the heritage of hunting with dogs in the Commonwealth of Virginia and to promote and advance the opportunities to use dogs for hunting through aggressive educational programs and political action. 

The Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance (VHDA) was formed as an umbrella organization, part of the Commonwealth Sportsmen’s Alliance PAC, to give Virginia Sportsmen a political voice within the law. Many groups came together because many of the"old line established or nationally affiliated organizations" simply were more interested in going along to get along like you. They did not criticize the DGIF Board or staff when it was needed! Now the DGIF Board has undertaken a dangerous course the Hound Study that they say"Will determine the future of hunting in Virginia"! Virginia’s Sportsmen need a strong voice to tell the bureaucrats and politicians not to tread on our rights! They want their Sportsmen’s organization to be bold defenders of their Heritage not elitists that ignore the hunting traditions that are as old as Virginia herself!

An appeaser is someone that feeds a crocodile in the hope that he will be eaten last!
Sir Winston Churchill

Ask Yourself This Question. If This Hound Hunting Study Or These Actions Were Taken By The Wildlife Department In Any Other State, Every Sportsmen In America Would Call It Anti-hunting. Dgif Is Pointing To Their 91 Year History Of Support For Sportsman To Say Trust Us! I Say Look At Their Track Record For The Last 4 Year History Of This Board!

Restructuring The Dgif Board Is Key To Preserving Your Hunting Heritage For Future Generations. Call And Ask Your Delegate To Support Hb1352 Vote Yes.


----------



## 3sheets

Or you could ask yourself this question, does Derick now have the "pig slayer" and the rest of the VHDA Board of Directors now on speed dial (since his response time to get "proper clearance" seems to be improving a tad)??

Or you could ask yourself this question, why do the Deer Dog Runners hide in the shadows and get a **** Dog Hunter from the western part of the state to do their dirty work??


----------



## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> Tim that is calling the kettle black, who attacked who? The Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance is working to secure, for posterity, the heritage of hunting with dogs in the Commonwealth of Virginia and to promote and advance the opportunities to use dogs for hunting *through aggressive educational programs * and political action.


Care to name a few of those "aggressive educational programs"?? 
You know, perhaps like VHDA's opposition to Sunday Hunting, so youngsters don't have an opertunity to hunt an additional day.


----------



## huntwalkers

*Hurry Hokie Get The Speed Dial Working!*



Hokieman said:


> This fight is not about the DGIF study, it is about a Governor that has stacked the Board of DGIF with folks that will do his will regardless of the consequences. The study is a distraction, a ruse. He has already said to "friends" that he will introduce legislation to make it a misdemeanor to leave a dog out for more than 3 days (maybe he will teach us to talk to them so they will come home more quickly)! He says he is going to end the chase seasons on all game during spring turkey, fall archery and muzzle-loading seasons. His divide and conquer tactics will only work if we Sportsmen don't reach out to non-dog hunting sportsmen.



I'M STILL WIATING FOR HOKIE TO MY ANSWER MY QUESTIONS TOO!!!!


1) PROVE TO ME WHAT DGIF Board Members? And show me what "will of the Governor" each NAMED Board Member has done???

NAMES PLEASE??

2) Are you saying that you leave your **** dog at a tree for 3 days or longer??

3) Why & how do you & VHDA think you can reach out to other non-dog hunting sportsman if you want to have open chase season during thier still hunting seasons??

4) If you hunt legally as you stated, What difference does it make if DGIF ammends the hunting regulations so that those that don't and turn their hounds out during Spring Gobbler, Bow, & ML seasons have to pay the price?

PLEASE HOKIE, Get the MASTER on the phone so you can answer these qustions too!!!! 

___________________________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## 3sheets

I'v learned the hard way, one never should ask Derick a question with the expetation of actually getting an answer. I use my questions as more of an educational (see I'm big on edcuation too, probably more so than the VHDA LOL) tool to let other folks see exactly what questions Derick and the VHDA avoid like the plague. :wink:


----------



## BigBirdVA

Friend sent me some trail cam pics taken this last week. Why? That's all I want to know is why is this still going on? Why can't the laws be enforced - no deer chasing out of season? Now tell me they're running foxes. BTW this is from the same tract I had my youth day turkey hunt screwed up 2 years ago.


----------



## huntwalkers

BigBirdVA said:


> Friend sent me some trail cam pics taken this last week. Why? That's all I want to know is why is this still going on? Why can't the laws be enforced - no deer chasing out of season? Now tell me they're running foxes. BTW this is from the same tract I had my youth day turkey hunt screwed up 2 years ago.



Big Bird,

I've never used one of these game cameras. Can they be set up to put the date & time on the pictures?

If so I don't see how this could be disputed in court! GUILTY! Seeing is believing.


_______________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## BigBirdVA

huntwalkers said:


> Big Bird,
> 
> I've never used one of these game cameras. Can they be set up to put the date & time on the pictures?
> 
> If so I don't see how this could be disputed in court! GUILTY! Seeing is believing.
> 
> 
> _______________
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Yes most can give date and time but technically that can be put in as any date or fudged if someone was looking to cause problems. Now if you had something dated in the pic, magazine cover, newspaper etc., it would be better. Some of them also take video. Still why are they "training" now? Just shows how far this BS has gone the wrong way and how far it needs to go to get back to normal. 

Season is oven and it's not enough. They like hearing them run is a common BS reason but this spot is on the middle of 500 acres of posted land. The owner of these dogs doesn't have permission, access and can't "hear" them run. Just another issue for the VDGIF survey people to look at and fix. Shame the deer dog chasers screw up those that might legitimately be hunting foxes. I hope the real fox hunters are watching the deer dog chaser groups and see how they are hurting the dog hunting sports.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Yes most can give date and time but technically that can be put in as any date or fudged if someone was looking to cause problems. Now if you had something dated in the pic, magazine cover, newspaper etc., it would be better. Some of them also take video. Still why are they "training" now? Just shows how far this BS has gone the wrong way and how far it needs to go to get back to normal.
> 
> Season is oven and it's not enough. They like hearing them run is a common BS reason but this spot is on the middle of 500 acres of posted land. The owner of these dogs doesn't have permission, access and can't "hear" them run. Just another issue for the VDGIF survey people to look at and fix. Shame the deer dog chasers screw up those that might legitimately be hunting foxes. I hope the real fox hunters are watching the deer dog chaser groups and see how they are hurting the dog hunting sports.


I agree, no reason why this should be happening. It's like huntwalkers said hunt right or don't hunt.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I agree, no reason why this should be happening. It's like huntwalkers said hunt right or don't hunt.


Well this is promising. So lets go onto the next logical point and see what happens. What do you think or recommend to fix or stop it? Presently there is no legal recourse to stop or deter the owners from doing this. As noted earlier this is the same tract my kids youth hunt got screwed 2 years ago. So it's an ongoing problem on this piece.

So what's it going to take to make seeing pictures like this go away?


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Well this is promising. So lets go onto the next logical point and see what happens. What do you think or recommend to fix or stop it? Presently there is no legal recourse to stop or deter the owners from doing this. As noted earlier this is the same tract my kids youth hunt got screwed 2 years ago. So it's an ongoing problem on this piece.
> 
> So what's it going to take to make seeing pictures like this go away?


I hope your not thinking of leg traps or snares,Once I find out who it is, I would have an officer or warden notifiy them that said property is posted and no trespassing, if that doesn't work, Call and make a complaint with the local animal controller and tell him you have dogs running at large and being a nuisance and ask him to set traps to catch them.


----------



## huntwalkers

Hokieman said:


> I hope your not thinking of leg traps or snares,Once I find out who it is, I would have an officer or warden notifiy them that said property is posted and no trespassing, if that doesn't work, Call and make a complaint with the local animal controller and tell him you have dogs running at large and being a nuisance and ask him to set traps to catch them.



*LORD HELP ME BECAUSE FINALLY I AGREE WITH SOMETHING HOKIE SAYS!!!!*

Hokieman is correct that the animal control in most counties will bring out large traps. Your pictures should be proof enough of the problem especially if you catch the same dogs as in the pictures.

Does your county have a leash law this time of year?

_______________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## huntwalkers

*Bad House Bill# 1352 Vote No*

*HOUSE BILL # 1352 - OPPOSE VOTE NO*

TRUTH: The DGIF Board is appointed and sits at the pleasure of the Governor as VHDA has been saying

HOWEVER:
VHDA Fails to tell everyone that the DGIF appointee's MUST BE CONFIRMED by the GENERAL ASSEMBLY!

*SEPARATION OF POWER!* - This away NO branch of Gov't. can "stack the deck". THERE FOR if the current DGIF Board were "STACKED" as VHDA wants you to believe it's THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY that allowed it!!!! 


I DO NOT BELIEVE that any of the GA Members that have signed onto this bill are intentionally trying to "Stack The Deck" within DGIF or the Board for VHDA.

I do believe that they have been completely MISLEAD because most of them are not hunters and really have only been hearing one twisted side that has been distorted to appear there are problems when they don't actually exist!


*CONTACT YOUR GENERAL ASSEMBLY MEMBERS - TODAY*
http://leg1.state.va.us/081/mbr/MBR.HTM
OR CALL 1-800-889-0229

*OPPOSE House Bill # 1352 - Restructure DGIF Board*
*( AKA - VHDA's Ace in the Hole)*

Kindly inform them that this bill may leave you, your district, & your hunting methods without proper representation on the DGIF Board!

Let your elected GA Member Know that you AS THEIR CONSTITUANT are counting on them to PRESERVE YOUR HUNTING TRADITIONS! Regardless of who they may or may not have received campain donations from!!


_______________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## ban_t

Well After reading thru and following all the post's is it seems too be several different problems. 
Basically the Gov't enforcement of laws on the books. 
Hound Hunters breaking the law and no enforcement.
As usual putting the wrong people in office to uphold said laws.
So they just make new laws. 

Hookie, I can say only one thing to you really, that is the best help you can do is keep Hound hunters in line. That will be the only way you can get attention of other hunting groups. 

Sorry I think Huntwalker is doing more good by trying too hold your Gov't Officials to the letter of law. Also at the same time trying too save maybe a hunting style that you love. 

So in just my humble opion is you should work on that also I beleive in the end you and Huntwalker would be better served. 
Yes I live in Indiana, I also lived in Va for 9 years and hound hunted it was fun. 
But I have no real interest in it, other than quail and pheashant these days. With My Brother_in-Law who has several hounds he keeps radio collars too find the lost one that happens from time too time. :embara:

I really hope this works out for both sets of Hunters it would be a shame too lose on either side of this.


----------



## 3sheets

huntwalkers said:


> *LORD HELP ME BECAUSE FINALLY I AGREE WITH SOMETHING HOKIE SAYS!!!!*
> 
> Hokieman is correct that the animal control in most counties will bring out large traps. Your pictures should be proof enough of the problem especially if you catch the same dogs as in the pictures.
> 
> Does your county have a leash law this time of year?
> 
> _______________
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Huntwalkers,

Curious as to what you and the "other one" think the penalties should be for both 1st time and repeat offenders in this particular instance?? I'm sure I'll at least get an answer from you!! :wink:


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I hope your not thinking of leg traps or snares,Once I find out who it is, I would have an officer or warden notifiy them that said property is posted and no trespassing, if that doesn't work, Call and make a complaint with the local animal controller and tell him you have dogs running at large and being a nuisance and ask him to set traps to catch them.


How can the animal control justify setting traps for dogs "legally" chasing foxes? The law as written allows dogs to run on another's lands and the owner will state he's chasing foxes. Again just goes to show that it's impossible to stop criminal action with the loophole the law allows. It also shows you have some sort of short term memory issue as we've been over this whole scenario many times. Just more proof the current state of dog chasing needs fixing.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> How can the animal control justify setting traps for dogs "legally" chasing foxes? The law as written allows dogs to run on another's lands and the owner will state he's chasing foxes. Again just goes to show that it's impossible to stop criminal action with the loophole the law allows. It also shows you have some sort of short term memory issue as we've been over this whole scenario many times. Just more proof the current state of dog chasing needs fixing.


Your wanting to debate a loophole and I am telling you to have the landowner call and report dogs running at large on his land and being a nuisance and ask for dog warden to come out and set large traps to catch the dogs running at large thru his posted land. It will resolve your problem. The owner will be contacted by the dog warden and ask to pay a ticket and pick up his dogs. If he continues he will be charged with allowing his dogs to run at large which is a misdemenor.


----------



## huntwalkers

3sheets said:


> Huntwalkers,
> 
> Curious as to what you and the "other one" think the penalties should be for both 1st time and repeat offenders in this particular instance?? I'm sure I'll at least get an answer from you!! :wink:


This is usually a tough one to prove BUT with multiple camers pictures if time & date are stamped on photo, I would think that would be proof enough to show HUNTING OUT OF SEASON, & then if happens again Habitual Offender!
KEEP THE CAMERA ROLLING & SET LIVE TRAPS!

_________________________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Your wanting to debate a loophole and I am telling you to have the landowner call and report dogs running at large on his land and being a nuisance and ask for dog warden to come out and set large traps to catch the dogs running at large thru his posted land. It will resolve your problem. The owner will be contacted by the dog warden and ask to pay a ticket and pick up his dogs. If he continues he will be charged with allowing his dogs to run at large which is a misdemenor.


First there is no dog at large or nuisance law. Second they're "legally" hunting foxes. No issue, no way to stop it. End of argument. I ALREADY did that 2 years ago and there is no available recourse to stop it. I don't care who calls they are powerless to stop dogs chasing "foxes" on another's lands. Geesh, you must be thick as they come.

How much effort and resources must a person leasing land use to ensure another doesn't screw up their area by illegal activity. The point is I or anyone shouldn't have to pound doors down to fix something the laws let slide by. No deer chasing out of season should mean just that. Fix the law and it's over.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> First there is no dog at large or nuisance law. Second they're "legally" hunting foxes. No issue, no way to stop it. End of argument. I ALREADY did that 2 years ago and there is no available recourse to stop it. I don't care who calls they are powerless to stop dogs chasing "foxes" on another's lands. Geesh, you must be thick as they come.
> 
> How much effort and resources must a person leasing land use to ensure another doesn't screw up their area by illegal activity. The point is I or anyone shouldn't have to pound doors down to fix something the laws let slide by. No deer chasing out of season should mean just that. Fix the law and it's over.


Ok thanks for your comment. When your interested in finding a solution to the problem, try the approach I told you about.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Ok thanks for your comment. When your interested in finding a solution to the problem, try the approach I told you about.


Let me type slowly for you.
I called AC they said there is no law being broken for hunting dogs to run or chase "foxes". The owner of the dog(s) doesn't have to be present for dogs to cross over onto another's lands. I mean you of all people should know the so called "fox" hunting rules by heart. They're not at large if they're hunting/chasing deer, I'm sorry I keep forgetting to say "foxes". Like in leg traps for "foxes". I've got to get that down by next fall. If there was a law for at large any unattended dog could be taken into AC at any time during any hunting season. If it was only that easy for a dog at large law to stop running of dogs on another's lands. No law for hunting dogs in rural areas HM. You're so good at cut-n-pasting quotes and such, find me one. 

Now let me get this part right because this is the part I nor any other law enforcement officer understands. If the owner of said land calls to complain there is a unknown to all others special mystery law for him but not the lessee?


----------



## 3sheets

BB,

Less you forget, Derick is from Giles County, over that way I doubt serious that they have many "Deer Dogs", whoops "Fox Dogs". So he advice is most likely based on what he's been told by the "pig slayer". 

Regardless, of where one's from thou, I'm betting that if you did happen to wake up your closest Warden or Animal Control Officer at around 2 or 3am in the morning with the dogs "in tow" that it wouldn't happen more than once or twice until your message hit a tad closer home so to speak. :wink:


----------



## 3sheets

huntwalkers said:


> This is usually a tough one to prove BUT with multiple camers pictures if time & date are stamped on photo, I would think that would be proof enough to show HUNTING OUT OF SEASON, & then if happens again Habitual Offender!
> KEEP THE CAMERA ROLLING & SET LIVE TRAPS!
> 
> _________________________
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


Huntwalkers,

Where does one apply for funding to get all of this necessary video equipment in order to protect one's boundries? Humm, perhaps any fines should be tripled or quadrupled, with a minimum of 50% going to the landowner/leasee to help pay for his investment in equipment and time? Ya recon we may have just stumbled upon an alternative solution?? :wink:


----------



## BigBirdVA

3sheets said:


> BB,
> 
> Less you forget, Derick is from Giles County, over that way I doubt serious that they have many "Deer Dogs", whoops "Fox Dogs". So he advice is most likely based on what he's been told by the "pig slayer".
> 
> Regardless, of where one's from thou, I'm betting that if you did happen to wake up your closest Warden or Animal Control Officer at around 2 or 3am in the morning with the dogs "in tow" that it wouldn't happen more than once or twice until your message hit a tad closer home so to speak. :wink:


What's the difference in calling dogs running on your land chasing deer today "dogs at large" vs chasing on your land say Nov 25th? If they're not your's, invited or welcome they're "at large". No Derick is avoiding the question because it leads down a path that's not in his best interest or one he can win. "At large" is presently exempt when it comes to hunting dogs. He knows but can't say a new working fix is needed. The only real fix is if a dog is chasing deer, it's a deer hound. The owner gets a ticket. Not too hard a concept unless you're one of the special "can do no wrong" hunters in VA we seem to have so many of.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> What's the difference in calling dogs running on your land chasing deer today "dogs at large" vs chasing on your land say Nov 25th? If they're not your's, invited or welcome they're "at large". No Derick is avoiding the question because it leads down a path that's not in his best interest or one he can win. "At large" is presently exempt when it comes to hunting dogs. He knows but can't say a new working fix is needed. The only real fix is if a dog is chasing deer, it's a deer hound. The owner gets a ticket. Not too hard a concept unless you're one of the special "can do no wrong" hunters in VA we seem to have so many of.


No they are not, that statement is incorrect. You can't call and make a complaint because you don't own the land you hunt. The landowner if calls in and makes a complaint to the animal controller of nuisance dogs will come out and set traps to catch them. stop the misinformation.


----------



## Hokieman

§ 3.1-796.104. Position of animal control officer created. 

The governing body of each county or city shall, or each town may, appoint an officer to be known as the animal control officer who shall have the power to enforce this chapter, all ordinances enacted pursuant to this chapter and all laws for the protection of domestic animals. The governing body may also appoint one or more deputy animal control officers to assist the animal control officer in the performance of his duties. Animal control officers and deputy animal control officers shall have a knowledge of the animal control and protection laws of Virginia which they are required to enforce. When in uniform or upon displaying a badge or other credentials of office, animal control officers and deputy animal control officers shall have the power to issue a summons or obtain a felony warrant as necessary, providing the execution of such warrant shall be carried out by any law-enforcement officer as defined in § 9.1-101, to any person found in the act of violating any such law or any ordinance enacted pursuant to such law of the locality in which the animal control officer or deputy animal control officer is appointed. The animal control officer and the deputy animal control officers shall be paid as the governing body of each locality shall prescribe. 

Any locality in which an animal control officer or deputy animal control officers have been appointed may contract with one or more additional localities for enforcement of animal protection and control laws by the animal control officers or deputy animal control officers. Any such contract may provide that the locality employing the animal control officer or deputy animal control officers shall be reimbursed a portion of the salary and expenses of the animal control officer or deputy animal control officers. 

Every locality employing an animal control officer shall submit to the State Veterinarian, on a form provided by him, information concerning the employment and training status of the animal control officers employed by the locality. The State Veterinarian may require that the locality notify him of any change in such information. 

(1984, cc. 254, 492, § 29-213.73; 1987, c. 488; 1998, c. 817; 2003, c. 804; 2004, c. 181.)


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> § 3.1-796.104. Position of animal control officer created.
> 
> The governing body of each county or city shall, or each town may, appoint an officer to be known as the animal control officer who shall have the power to enforce this chapter, all ordinances enacted pursuant to this chapter and all laws for the protection of domestic animals. The governing body may also appoint one or more deputy animal control officers to assist the animal control officer in the performance of his duties. Animal control officers and deputy animal control officers shall have a knowledge of the animal control and protection laws of Virginia which they are required to enforce. When in uniform or upon displaying a badge or other credentials of office, animal control officers and deputy animal control officers shall have the power to issue a summons or obtain a felony warrant as necessary, providing the execution of such warrant shall be carried out by any law-enforcement officer as defined in § 9.1-101, to any person found in the act of violating any such law or any ordinance enacted pursuant to such law of the locality in which the animal control officer or deputy animal control officer is appointed. The animal control officer and the deputy animal control officers shall be paid as the governing body of each locality shall prescribe.
> 
> Any locality in which an animal control officer or deputy animal control officers have been appointed may contract with one or more additional localities for enforcement of animal protection and control laws by the animal control officers or deputy animal control officers. Any such contract may provide that the locality employing the animal control officer or deputy animal control officers shall be reimbursed a portion of the salary and expenses of the animal control officer or deputy animal control officers.
> 
> Every locality employing an animal control officer shall submit to the State Veterinarian, on a form provided by him, information concerning the employment and training status of the animal control officers employed by the locality. The State Veterinarian may require that the locality notify him of any change in such information.
> 
> (1984, cc. 254, 492, § 29-213.73; 1987, c. 488; 1998, c. 817; 2003, c. 804; 2004, c. 181.)


How pathetic. We all know there is an AC officer. There is no law this AC officer can use for hunting dogs in regards for "at large". They're not considered a nuisance or at large if they're hunting "foxes". How many ways do I need to say that?


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> No they are not, that statement is incorrect. You can't call and make a complaint because you don't own the land you hunt. The landowner if calls in and makes a complaint to the animal controller of nuisance dogs will come out and set traps to catch them. stop the misinformation.


Sussex laws on dogs at large.


> WHAT DO I DO ABOUT DOGS RUNNING AT LARGE?
> 
> First try talking to the owner of the dog(s). If the problem continues, contact Animal Control and report the problem. Dogs are prohibited from running at large without their county license tag and rabies vaccination tag fixed to a substantial collar secured around their neck. The Animal Control Officer is unable by law to take any action unless he witnesses the incident. Animal Control will attempt to resolve the situation using whatever legal remedies are available. Just because the officer cannot take immediate action, does not mean you cannot, you can make an application for the violation at the Magistrate’s Office.


 As long as they have a license and rabies tag they're not at large. They go on to say more about hunting dogs. Note "foxes" in there. As I've said and I was told on the phone there is no violation as there is no law against chasing "foxes". As long as this loophole exists it's going to continue. When your lease is for all recreational activities you have the right to call and complain and have laws enforced. This land owner thing you've got going is just more BS that the dog chasers use to imply a solution exists when one doesn't. 
Misinformation? You've got to be so far out there it's scary. 



> Hunting Dogs & Hunters
> 
> 
> Sussex County, as a rural community enjoys a rich sporting heritage, these traditions include the use of various breeds of dogs to hunt game, from birds to large mammals. The practice of “ pack hunting”, the use of a large number of dogs to drive game, is common throughout the county. Seasons for deer& rabbit span from November to February. Hunters may use dogs during seasons where not prohibited. Hours are from one-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset. When the chase begins on other lands, fox and **** hunters may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game may go on prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, but may NOT carry Firearms on their persons or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Sussex laws on dogs at large.
> As long as they have a license and rabies tag they're not at large. They go on to say more about hunting dogs. Note "foxes" in there. As I've said and I was told on the phone there is no violation as there is no law against chasing "foxes". As long as this loophole exists it's going to continue. When your lease is for all recreational activities you have the right to call and complain and have laws enforced. This land owner thing you've got going is just more BS that the dog chasers use to imply a solution exists when one doesn't.
> Misinformation? You've got to be so far out there it's scary.


You got to be kidding. If the landowner calls the animal controler and ask him to bring out a trap to catch nuisance dogs they will do it. might not like it but by law have to do it.

WHAT DO I DO ABOUT DOGS RUNNING AT LARGE?



First try talking to the owner of the dog(s). If the problem continues, contact Animal Control and report the problem. Dogs are prohibited from running at large without their county license tag and rabies vaccination tag fixed to a substantial collar secured around their neck. The Animal Control Officer is unable by law to take any action unless he witnesses the incident. Animal Control will attempt to resolve the situation using whatever legal remedies are available. Just because the officer cannot take immediate action, does not mean you cannot, you can make an application for the violation at the Magistrate’s Office.



CONFINEMENT PERIOD

NO DOGS MAY RUN AT LARGE ON THE WESTERN PART

OF THE COUNTY MARCH 1-15 (ANNUALLY)

(WEST OF RTE. 35, JERUSALEM PLANK ROAD)

NO DOGS MAY RUN AT LARGE ON THE EASTERN PART

OF THE COUNTY MARCH 16-31 (ANNUALLY)

(EAST OF RTE. 35, JERUSALEM PLANK ROAD)



WHAT IF MY DOG IS IMPOUNDED?



If the dog displays identification, the owner if possible will be contacted and made aware of the impoundment. If your dog is impounded you may redeem it from the animal shelter at 14493 Robinson Road. You must have your identification (i.e. driver’s license, state identification card), the dog’s current license receipt and Rabies vaccination certificate, the metal tags are not accepted. You will have to pay any impoundment fees incurred beginning the day it was impounded. If your dog does not have identification, law requires it be kept five (5) days. If the dog has not been claimed at the end of five (5) days it becomes the property of the county, and may be placed for adoption or otherwise disposed of. There is a impound fee of $10.00 and a boarding fee of $5.00 a day.


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## ban_t

Here is a anoter opion for those who want too stop Tresspasing as it is. The Hounds may cross onto the property. The Owners of said hounds still need permission to do so. 
So Post said property and then got give written notice too all Hound hunting Clubs in your area. I am sure you all know who they are and tell them too stay off the said property. Then wait for them too show up too retrieve their dogs and refuse too let them on your property woth out a Local Offcial as a escort for them. 
You do that a few times and that Local CO will also get a little pissed about it too. 
VIRGINIA TRESPASSING

Virginia Code § 18.2-119 defines the crime of trespassing as follows:

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

The issue in many trespassing cases is twofold: has proper notice been provided that the person is not welcome in a particular area and exactly what area is the person prohibited from entering. The code identifies potentially four different ways in which notice of no trespassing may be accomplished. The four ways are: by oral request by a person in authority, by written request by a person in authority, by a posted sign in an area where it may reasonably be seen, by court order pursuant to specific code sections, even if the order is ex parte. An ex parte order is an order entered by a judge where the person who is the subject of the order is not present at the time the order is entered. For a person to be convicted of trespassing after the entering of an ex parte order, that person must have actually been served with a copy of the order. This means a sheriff or other properly authorized individual, delivered a copy of the order to the person who is the subject of the no trespass provision. A written or oral no trespass request can be for both public and private locations. For instance, places of business can request a person not to return to their location. Even a city can request that an individual not return to a certain park or parks. However, a private business can’t ban a person from an area that is public access nor can a city ban a person from an area when doing so would interfere with a constitutionally protected right. 

Dog are not Tresspaing it the hound owners if the property is Posted. So send a Letter too all hound hunting clubs in your area that they are allowed to enter 
the Property and when they do call the Local CO.


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## ban_t

Just for Referance where I got my info http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/forestry/420-035/420-035.html
Hope this help a few, Yes it's work to have too post your property but it is the law. If you read this I like the part about Channel 9 on the CB. At the bottom of the page.

Posting

State law (Virginia Code Section 18.2-132) forbids hunters and fishermen to enter private lands without permission from the landowner. Although verbal consent is required for use of unposted lands, this provision is difficult to enforce. The landowner who wants effective control of access will have to post. Hunting, fishing, or trapping on posted land without written permission of the landowner is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $250.00 or by confinement in jail for not more than 30 days, either or both (Virginia Code Section 18.2-134). Posting laws are enforceable by game wardens, sheriffs, and all other law enforcement officers of Virginia.

Persons who own land in those counties in western Virginia that require big-game hunters to purchase animal damage stamps may have difficulty collecting for wildlife damages if hunters are excluded. Interpretation of Virginia Code 29-92.5 varies from county to county, so landowners should consult county officials before posting to ensure their eligibility for damage payments.

The landowner needs more than signs to post his property effectively. The posting strategy should include a standard sign that accurately conveys the landowner's policy on recreational use, systematic placement of signs along the boundary, routine inspection and replacement of weathered or vandalized signs, and a commitment to patrol for and prosecute violators. There is little point in conducting a half-hearted posting campaign because trespassers will detect a bluff and continue their use of the property.

In Virginia, the sign need only say POSTED to be legal. However, more information is desirable. If the land is closed to all trespassing, then a simple NO TRESPASSING sign will do. After you have established a record of successfully prosecuting trespassers, the trespassers in the locality will associate your sign and name with the fact that you mean business. If you limit hunting or other recreational activities to family, friends, and selected individuals, buy signs that read "POSTED, no hunting (and/or other recreational activity) without written permission" and give your name and address. Signs that convey positive messages are less likely to be vandalized than signs that are negative. If you have leased hunting rights to a club, then the club should purchase signs saying "POSTED, hunting rights leased by XYZ Hunt Club, no hunting without written permission. " The landowner may wish to control the wording of club signs. A landowner cooperative should adopt a standard sign not unlike that used by a hunting club.

Cardboard, fabric, plastic, and aluminum signs with standard or personalized messages are available from local or mail order suppliers. According to George Paduda, in the July, 1981, issue of American Forests magazine, the best long-run investment is the aluminum sign. Tack the sign to a board and then mount the board 10 to 12 feet high in a tree, using aluminum nails. Paduda recommends leaving onehalf inch of the nail out to accomodate tree growth. Aluminum nails will neither stain the wood nor ruin saw blades. Also recommended are the use of a stepladder to install the signs and a pruning saw to remove branches that obscure the sign. Spraypainting trees with a bright color along the boundary line is a good idea too. Signs should be displayed conspicuously along the property boundary and installed well before the hunting season.

The task of enforcement follows sign installation. Inform the game warden and other local law enforcement officers that your land is posted and that you and those to whom you grant permits and lease agreements will support prosecution of violators. During the hunting season the officers are extremely busy; but they will make every effort to respond to a call for help from a credible landowner.

The landowner or his representative should not take the risk of personally apprehending an armed trespasser. If a trespasser is operating a vehicle, write down the vehicle license plate number and its make, model, and color and note the date, time, and location. If a trespasser was observed, a name or description of the person is helpful. Call the warden or other local enforcement officer immediately.

During the hunting season wardens are almost impossible to reach at home, but they can be reached by calling the county sheriff, who will relay your message by radio. Also, while on the road, game wardens monitor CB Channel 9. All Virginia law enforcement officers are empowered to enforce the trespass law.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> You got to be kidding. If the landowner calls the animal controler and ask him to bring out a trap to catch nuisance dogs they will do it. might not like it but by law have to do it.
> 
> WHAT DO I DO ABOUT DOGS RUNNING AT LARGE?


If they are chasing "foxes" and the chase continues onto another's land they're not at large. Chasing "foxes" out of season and chasing deer in season are the same. Can anyone take or trap deer hounds during deer season? No, so the same applies to "foxes" during "fox" season. As long as a any dog owner can say "fox" and there is continuous chase season for "fox" there is no such thing as dog at large. As long as he lets the dogs out on land he has permission to hunt it's free range after that. If you could catch and impound it would be one less issue in the big dig survey. This legal hole for dogs to run all over is one of the main points for most still hunters. Don't you think oif there was a legal way to stop it someone would have already done it? Anyone ever heard of dogs being impounded during season? No. Besides it says a dog is not at large if it's got tags. They're not a nuisance if they're hunting by the state game laws. Laws for "fox" is open all year. "Fox" is what the owner claims, not the actual game being chased. As long as this loophole exists there is nothing anyone can do to stop a legal hunt.

The other side is who wants to pester the crap out of the landowner? What if the landowner doesn't share my concerns? Shouldn't have to add another layer of legality into it to stop dogs running deer out of season. A simple change in the law and it's over for everyone. It's going to be changed because this is one of those loopholes in dog chasing.

I'll call tomorrow during hours as they're closed on Wed. and get a name and the exact wording and such so we can put this BS aside.


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## BigBirdVA

ban_t said:


> Here is a anoter opion for those who want too stop Tresspasing as it is. The Hounds may cross onto the property. The Owners of said hounds still need permission to do so.
> So Post said property and then got give written notice too all Hound hunting Clubs in your area. I am sure you all know who they are and tell them too stay off the said property. Then wait for them too show up too retrieve their dogs and refuse too let them on your property woth out a Local Offcial as a escort for them.
> You do that a few times and that Local CO will also get a little pissed about it too.
> VIRGINIA TRESPASSING
> 
> Virginia Code § 18.2-119 defines the crime of trespassing as follows:
> 
> If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.
> 
> The issue in many trespassing cases is twofold: has proper notice been provided that the person is not welcome in a particular area and exactly what area is the person prohibited from entering. The code identifies potentially four different ways in which notice of no trespassing may be accomplished. The four ways are: by oral request by a person in authority, by written request by a person in authority, by a posted sign in an area where it may reasonably be seen, by court order pursuant to specific code sections, even if the order is ex parte. An ex parte order is an order entered by a judge where the person who is the subject of the order is not present at the time the order is entered. For a person to be convicted of trespassing after the entering of an ex parte order, that person must have actually been served with a copy of the order. This means a sheriff or other properly authorized individual, delivered a copy of the order to the person who is the subject of the no trespass provision. A written or oral no trespass request can be for both public and private locations. For instance, places of business can request a person not to return to their location. Even a city can request that an individual not return to a certain park or parks. However, a private business can’t ban a person from an area that is public access nor can a city ban a person from an area when doing so would interfere with a constitutionally protected right.
> 
> Dog are not Tresspaing it the hound owners if the property is Posted. So send a Letter too all hound hunting clubs in your area that they are allowed to enter
> the Property and when they do call the Local CO.


That's great but what about dogs passing through or taking a couple of laps around and then leaving? All this works if the dogs are there and stay or you catch them. It's not always possible to catch dogs. Most times they run a few laps go off and come back through an hour or so later. It's this running through that presents the problems if you're still hunting or up a tree. Giving up a hunt to chase hounds only to get nothing gets old quick. What about people that only have limited time on a piece? My time is valuable and I'm not willing to give up many hunts to chase dogs. I shouldn't have to give up a thing either. I'm not causing issues others are and they need to be restrained. 

The burden of fixing the problem rests on the one causing the problem.


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## ban_t

I agree with you completly on lost time and energy with hunts. It would really upset me also. I understand the feeling we have no real hound hunting here but **** hunters and they hunt mainly at niight. The only real problem here is just pack dogs or coy-dogs we just shoot on sight and that is the best way too save your hunt.
I know this would not be a good option for the real problem you have there.


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## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> That's great but what about dogs passing through or taking a couple of laps around and then leaving? All this works if the dogs are there and stay or you catch them. It's not always possible to catch dogs. Most times they run a few laps go off and come back through an hour or so later. It's this running through that presents the problems if you're still hunting or up a tree. Giving up a hunt to chase hounds only to get nothing gets old quick. What about people that only have limited time on a piece? My time is valuable and I'm not willing to give up many hunts to chase dogs. I shouldn't have to give up a thing either. I'm not causing issues others are and they need to be restrained.
> 
> The burden of fixing the problem rests on the one causing the problem.


Think of it this way. The more you catch the less interuption you'll have and having an animal control officer to set a trap doesn't require your time. The least you could do is try it.


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## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> Think of it this way. The more you catch the less interuption you'll have and having an animal control officer to set a trap doesn't require your time. The least you could do is try it.


BB,

Don't you just love it? This is how a member of VHDA Board is going to solve the problems ... have you take care of it, rather than being proactive and providing a hotline or even a link on their website to report "offenders" that might just happen to belong to one of their member clubs. Apparently they have totally given up on any "self policing" efforts. 

Ya recon, the above post must be part of their so-called "Educational Effort" they keep harping about?


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## BigBirdVA

That's because their tradition includes interfering with others while they break the law on others land. Got to love it huh? I just do not understand how anyone or any group, such as the survey in progress, could take longer than 2 seconds to figure out it isn't acceptable for another to interfere with the privacy or rights to peace on lands they're not welcome on. Try going onto your neighbors property and having a party or event and see how it goes. But living in a rural area gives this right to certain groups?


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## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> BB,
> 
> Don't you just love it? This is how a member of VHDA Board is going to solve the problems ... have you take care of it, rather than being proactive and providing a hotline or even a link on their website to report "offenders" that might just happen to belong to one of their member clubs. Apparently they have totally given up on any "self policing" efforts.
> 
> Ya recon, the above post must be part of their so-called "Educational Effort" they keep harping about?


enforcement of current virginia code and dgif current game rules and regulations is the key to resolving these issue, along with working with hunting clubs and landowners.


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## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> That's because their tradition includes interfering with others while they break the law on others land. Got to love it huh? I just do not understand how anyone or any group, such as the survey in progress, could take longer than 2 seconds to figure out it isn't acceptable for another to interfere with the privacy or rights to peace on lands they're not welcome on. Try going onto your neighbors property and having a party or event and see how it goes. But living in a rural area gives this right to certain groups?


There is no point in responding to any of your comments as they will always be pro-anti-dog.:sad:


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> There is no point in responding to any of your comments as they will always be pro-anti-dog.:sad:


Reality tends to do that to people. Tell me how I'm supposed to feel when dogs are illegally chasing deer every day I hunt during archery season and there is nothing I can do to legally stop it? Your so called solutions aren't solutions but delusions of how you think the laws might be. To date has anyone ever posted or given a proven working solution to dogs chasing deer out of season? Let me know when you can cut-n-paste an illegal dog back to it's pen.


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## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Reality tends to do that to people. Tell me how I'm supposed to feel when dogs are illegally chasing deer every day I hunt during archery season and there is nothing I can do to legally stop it? Your so called solutions aren't solutions but delusions of how you think the laws might be. To date has anyone ever posted or given a proven working solution to dogs chasing deer out of season? Let me know when you can cut-n-paste an illegal dog back to it's pen.


Stop looking for other to do something your to lazy to do yourself. Stop complaining and work towards a solution instead of crying about them. :darkbeer:


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## Idaho_Elk_Huntr

Hokieman said:


> There is no point in responding to any of your comments as they will always be pro-anti-dog.:sad:



Not just anti illegal slob hunting


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## Hokieman

Idaho_Elk_Huntr said:


> Not just anti illegal slob hunting


Yes we know there are slob hunters in deer hound hunting, as I informed bigbird what measures he could try to resolve the issue using current laws. Since your a landowner in virginia, how would you approach deer hound hunters who ilegally hunt your land. I think you stated this happen before and I want to know what measures you took to make sure it didn't happen again.


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## huntwalkers

*Equal Opportunity Hunting!*

I notice that many states have seperate seasons for each weapon. Maybe this is what VA needs to do for deer hunting?? Split deer season into Bow ONLY 3 weeks/ Muzzle Loader ONLY 3 weeks/ Still Fireams ONLY 3 weeks & Hound Hunting ONLY 3 weeks.
Make it illegal to run any kind of trailing dog during the Bow, Muzzle Loader & Still deer hunting season. And make it illegal to hunt during these seasons unless you are hunting by those methods and with that weapon.
No special early or late seasons and no one group of hunters having any longer than the other group! Rotate each season every year so that everyone gets to be first and everyone gets to be last.

WHY HASN'T DGIF THOUHGT OF THIS!!!! NO MORE FUSSING ABOUT OTHER HUNTERS RUINING THE OTHERS HUNT OR ANYONE GETTING SPECIAL TREATMENT! We would all be treated fairly as to the amount of time in the woods and if you choose to participate in any or all seasons you will only be hunting like everyone else!

_____________________________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


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## ban_t

*9of 16 Surveys In*

http://www.dgif.state.va.us/hunting/hounds/?tab=focus-group-summaries
VDGIF has posted 9 of 16 survey's some interesting reading on different views. Not that it fix's anything but it seems the Law Enforcement Group did not have many good things too say about hound hunters. I think they will be the swaying vote too end or too add heavy regulations and laws to stop or restict hound hunting. Since they are on the front line of the problem too. Along with land owners and hound hunters


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## Moon

*Man!!!!This thread is going bonkers*

and ole Hokie came back to life I see.

I talked with a deer hunting outfitter located in the northern part of North Carolina yesterday. He's on a rampage. He said the same sh-t is goin on down there as we have going on in SE VA but with one difference.............the road shooters down there are using semi auto AR's with clips that hold about 15 rounds or more 

Different location, same "sport", same mentalityukey:

I find it interesting that we now have 2 deer chasing folks arguing on an Archery/Bowhunting site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!


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## BigBirdVA

Quick update on AC phone call. They said dogs can't be on another's property any time! They'll come set traps for me. WOW!!! Then I asked about hunting dogs and their exemption to cross over onto prohibited lands, or the quote from the game laws. She had never heard about that law. Said she was going to contact the local GW and get back to me on it. Never got a reply back and when I called they were gone and I got voice mail. So it appears they're not in the know on all laws regarding hunting dogs. Lots of things come to mind hearing that. We'll see how this ends up after she gets a little education from the GW on VA law.


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## BigBirdVA

Talked to the AC officer in other county I've had dog issues in. He said, like I've been saying all along, it's a game dept. issue and the present laws do not address, prohibit or allow for a way to stop "fox" hounds from running on another's lands. Exactly like I've been saying all along. He also went on to say he's a deer dog hunter and he's upset with those that play the "fox" game and run deer out of season. He also said he gets a ton of hunting deer dog related calls during the year. He said when the change hits they'll only have themselves to blame for what is coming down. He said he doesn't chase out of season and it's bad for the deer and so on. He's a bow hunter and he said like many of us say you're up a tree and here come the dogs at 8AM and your hunt is messed up.

So HM just another load of Hookie dog chaser crap and mis-directed blame on something that a fix is not presently possible for. He also gave me his cell number and said he may not be able to help but if I had issues to call him directly. Had a nice long conversation with someone that "sees the crap they do every day" and "I'm powerless to act on it". He did say some changes are in the works for dog related activities but gave no details. Words like that coming from someone in enforcement and a deer dog hunter says a lot.

Still waiting for a response from the county AC in the post above this one. I don't expect it to be any different as it can't. State game laws over rule local laws on hunting.


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## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Talked to the AC officer in other county I've had dog issues in. He said, like I've been saying all along, it's a game dept. issue and the present laws do not address, prohibit or allow for a way to stop "fox" hounds from running on another's lands. Exactly like I've been saying all along. He also went on to say he's a deer dog hunter and he's upset with those that play the "fox" game and run deer out of season. He also said he gets a ton of hunting deer dog related calls during the year. He said when the change hits they'll only have themselves to blame for what is coming down. He said he doesn't chase out of season and it's bad for the deer and so on. He's a bow hunter and he said like many of us say you're up a tree and here come the dogs at 8AM and your hunt is messed up.
> 
> So HM just another load of Hookie dog chaser crap and mis-directed blame on something that a fix is not presently possible for. He also gave me his cell number and said he may not be able to help but if I had issues to call him directly. Had a nice long conversation with someone that "sees the crap they do every day" and "I'm powerless to act on it". He did say some changes are in the works for dog related activities but gave no details. Words like that coming from someone in enforcement and a deer dog hunter says a lot.
> 
> Still waiting for a response from the county AC in the post above this one. I don't expect it to be any different as it can't. State game laws over rule local laws on hunting.


That is great now can I have his name and that number I am interested in calling this person. I have a few questions to ask.


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## MTNHunt

ban_t said:


> http://www.dgif.state.va.us/hunting/hounds/?tab=focus-group-summaries
> VDGIF has posted 9 of 16 survey's some interesting reading on different views. Not that it fix's anything but it seems the Law Enforcement Group did not have many good things too say about hound hunters. I think they will be the swaying vote too end or too add heavy regulations and laws to stop or restict hound hunting. Since they are on the front line of the problem too. Along with land owners and hound hunters


I think you need to re-read the first paragraph of the last page of the law enforcement survey, it clearly states that the paticipants (law officers) noted that too many regulation might make people quit hound hunting and hoped that this wouldn't happen. Also the LAW ENFORCEMENT study noted time after time that the hound hunters are more visible to people who don't hunt and don't know the laws about the hound hunters right to hunt ditch line to ditch line or off the road on the clubs leased property. And, yes like every thing else in this GREAT WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN, they repeatly said the bad apples of hound hunting give the sport a bad rap. 

The anti-deer dog hunter will always cry and whin , even if all the deer hounds in the world were banned. Go figure.

LET's get the right information out to the public next time and let's not post false statements please.

I believe the anti-deer hound hunters will post anything negative and make up stupid stories about AC officers to make it seem that they are so violated when they hunt on there property.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> That is great now can I have his name and that number I am interested in calling this person. I have a few questions to ask.


HaHahaha!!! That's funny. He's a x-cop that got back in and took the AC job to get his foot in the door to move up. And you want to question the guy? He hunts with deer hounds and knows the game. Maybe you can cut n paste him a load of "The World According to Hookieman". Too friggin' funny! 

You're living proof dog chasers just do not get it.:confused3:


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## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> HaHahaha!!! That's funny. He's a x-cop that got back in and took the AC job to get his foot in the door to move up. And you want to question the guy? He hunts with deer hounds and knows the game. Maybe you can cut n paste him a load of "The World According to Hookieman". Too friggin' funny!
> 
> You're living proof dog chasers just do not get it.:confused3:


I guess you have a problem with me talking to him.:wink:


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I guess you have a problem with me talking to him.:wink:


Talk away. Sussex county AC number is (434) 246-5000. I'm sure you can make the laws change just like that. Just tell him the dog chasers said it's ok now.


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## ban_t

MTNHunt said:


> I think you need to re-read the first paragraph of the last page of the law enforcement survey, it clearly states that the paticipants (law officers) noted that too many regulation might make people quit hound hunting and hoped that this wouldn't happen. Also the LAW ENFORCEMENT study noted time after time that the hound hunters are more visible to people who don't hunt and don't know the laws about the hound hunters right to hunt ditch line to ditch line or off the road on the clubs leased property. And, yes like every thing else in this GREAT WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN, they repeatly said the bad apples of hound hunting give the sport a bad rap.
> 
> The anti-deer dog hunter will always cry and whin , even if all the deer hounds in the world were banned. Go figure.
> 
> LET's get the right information out to the public next time and let's not post false statements please.
> 
> I believe the anti-deer hound hunters will post anything negative and make up stupid stories about AC officers to make it seem that they are so violated when they hunt on there property.




Granted what I stated is my opion, With that said you should read the summery. 
SUMMARY
The law enforcement focus group was attended by officers from a variety of jurisdictions and
agencies across the state of Virginia. All officers had first-hand experience responding to
complaints related to hound hunting. Officers chronicled an exhaustive list of issues and
indicated that they respond to conflicts between hound hunters, between non-hound and hound
hunters, between hound hunters and landowners, and others. Issues that surfaced repeatedly
included trespassing, hunting out of season or hours, and hunting from the roads or blocking
traffic. It seemed that most hound hunting issues officers in this focus group encountered were
related to deer and bear hound hunters. In addition, officers were quick to note that not all hound
hunters cause problems, but those that do are highly visible and persistent.
Officers believed that
consistent laws, closing loopholes in existing laws, stiffer penalties for violations, and increased
education of hunters, landowners, and others would help make enforcement more effective.

So as I said I think Law enforcement opions will way in and can sway further regs or whatever is decided. It is my opion and not a false statement Sorry if you feel that it is. I am not a anti hound hunter, I am againist the setup of the laws as they stand in Va. I may not live there but I do hunt in Va. in James City,Surry,Glouster county. They should be changed due too the lack of a few that do not respect others property. Or are trying too get around the law. It has been brought on by the few that are messing it up for all.


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## deepzak

Hokieman said:


> I guess you have a problem with me talking to him.:wink:


What did the "pig slayer" tell you to tell him? 

BB, warn this guy to look for nails in his driveway. I'm just say'n....... We've seen it before.:zip:


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## BigBirdVA

Todays newspaper the local add-on section. Add another negative view on hunting to the list brought to you courtesy of the dog chasers.


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## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Todays newspaper the local add-on section. Add another negative view on hunting to the list brought to you courtesy of the dog chasers.


In case you haven't seen these. you are pro anti dog period.


When hunting dogs are poached to ‘save’ them
By Cortney Langley | The Virginia Gazette 
January 16, 2008 
JAMES CITY

After dark one fall night, Russell Carlton’s phone rang. 

“We have your dog,” a woman told him. She was with the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. In Charlottesville. 

Carlton, who’s vice president of Oak Tree Hunt Club in rural James City, had been hunting in a 5,000-acre tract off Croaker Road, mostly swampland, when his dog got loose and ran onto Interstate 64. A traveler picked it up and decided to drop it off at the pound in her own town. 

She told the SPCA there that she had tried to call the home and cell numbers listed on the dog’s collar, but nobody picked up. Carlton drove the 120 miles to get his dog back. The SPCA waived the fees, recognizing his four-hour round-trip as burden enough. 

Carlton, something of a skeptic, believes the woman recognized his hound as a hunting dog and decided it would be better off adopted out than hunting another day. 

Deer hunting season closed last week, ending hunters’ favorite time of year and one of the busiest times of year for James City County Animal Control and the Heritage Humane Society. 

“They affect many people,” said Shirley Anderson, supervisor of Animal Control. 

Anderson and her staff are often the de facto mediators between suburbanites and hunters. Property owners and hunting opponents call her agency to round up dogs on their property, or roaming the streets or the wood line. 

Anderson and the staff know most of the hunt clubs in the area, and often quickly reunite the dogs with their owners. They aren’t always able to reach the hunters, though, and if the dog is in leash law territory, officers transport the dog to the Humane Society. 

Beyond the stray dog issue, though, is often an ideological fight. Many people believe that to “work” the dogs in any manner is cruel and inhumane. They point to how lean the dogs become over the winter as proof of maltreatment. They claim that dogs that won’t hunt well are simply set loose at the end of the season, into the wild. 

Increased suburbanization doesn’t help, according to the Virginia Department of Game & Inland Fisheries. As more and more traditional hunting land is given over to housing developments, newcomers often bring city sensibilities that conflict with rural Southern tradition. 

“The first time they see an orange hat, they say, ‘Hey! People are trying to shoot deer in my front yard!’” said Holiday Hunt Club secretary Tommy Louke. 

“In some of the newer neighborhoods, like Colonial Heritage and Stonehouse, those lands have been hunted for years,” Anderson agreed. “And the dogs don’t know the difference. The dogs have been hunting this land for a long time.” 

Veterinarian staff have mixed feelings. When hunting dogs are hurt and taken in, some go unclaimed by hunters who don’t want to incur the bill, giving rise to a view of them as callous and irresponsible. Shelter workers are sometimes reluctant to return dogs to owners they suspect are neglectful. 

“They spoil it for the good hunters who take care of their animals,” Anderson said. 

Hunters rue the few bad apples. A decent hunting dog can cost anywhere from $250 to $1,000, according to Game & Inland. Then there are shots, food and shelter. Douglas Carlton, Russell’s son, goes through four tons of dog food in a year. Hunters also rent time at fox pens to exercise the dogs and get them ready for the season. A tracking system runs about $1,000, and more than $100 per individual collar. 

All told, a litter of pups will cost more than $1,500 before any of them go hunting, Douglas said. 

With real money on the line, hunters argue that they are the last people wanting their investments running loose in the suburbs or wandering along the interstate. Most of these owners go home at night with their dogs fully accounted for. 

Newcomers, they say, don’t understand either the culture or the function of hunting. 

“A dog in what I call good running shape, they think is poor,” said Jerry Nixon, who owns about three dozen hunting dogs. 

Like Carlton, many have had run-ins with shelters, who often charge the hunters to re-claim their dogs or, with no photo identification, have them adopt their own dogs. James City County charges $35 for the first night and $15 each day, charges that go to defray the cost of feeding and sheltering the animals. 

Three years ago one of Nixon’s puppies was picked up and dropped off at the shelter. The staff dewormed and bathed the dog, even put a little pink collar on her. When he went to collect her, he couldn’t prove she was his without photo identification. 

“That put a bad taste in my mouth,” he said. “I don’t mind paying one or two nights, but to have to adopt my own dog back…” Nixon has since moved his dogs out of James City County. 

The Humane Society argues that a photo is an easy and reasonable way to verify identity. They cite cases where warring couples will steal and drop family pets off at the shelter rather than let the partner gain custody. 

It isn’t until after the 12th day that the animals legally pass into the Humane Society’s possession. State law alternately recognizes property owners’ right to their animals while trying to prevent cruelty. Although not inherently incompatible, which law trumps becomes fuzzy when some people classify hunting with dogs as cruel on its own. 

“We’re the ones walking that line,” said Christie Peters, executive director of the Heritage Humane Society. “And it’s an interesting role that legislators may need to look at. It’s a tricky situation.” 

The conflict can ultimately erupt in threats of violence or intrusion, putting the dogs and Animal Control in the middle. 

Anderson said that a few years back, angry homeowners removed tracking collars from a number of hunting dogs and set them loose to punish the hunters, an act that was outlawed last year. 

The rift between hunters and non-hunters has attracted the eye of the state. Game & Inland contracted Virginia Tech to study the issue of hunting with dogs after a forum on its website drew hundreds of comments in a few short weeks this summer. 

That study is in its early stages. The agency will be soliciting public input during the spring and summer. More than 50 members of Holiday Hunt Club plan to submit letters in support of dog hunting. 

“If it came down to not hunting with dogs or not hunting, I’d give up hunting,” Louke said. 


:wink:


Some hunters make 'a dog's life' good
February 2, 2008 12:16 am

This is in response to Frances Hutchins' Jan. 29 letter, "Hunting dogs deserve better lives than most of them get."

I understand her concern and agree that many hunting dogs are mistreated, abandoned, and considered by some as "disposable" after the hunting season ends.

However, not all hunters are in that category. I have hunted with a group for more than 30 years. We do not paint numbers on our dogs; we know them by name, and they know us. We provide vet care and a pill regimen. We ensure they are properly fed and watered and have a clean environment. 

At the end of each hunting day, we ensure that all "our children" are with us to return home, or we stay as late as necessary to find them. They are checked over to ensure no injury has occurred, and then "put to bed" with food and water.

I'm tired of the standard line that complains that we are all bad and have no feelings for the dogs. I'm sure there are plenty of hunters and clubs that take very good care of the dogs. Do not lump us in with the people who do not have respect for the dogs, the game, and landowners' interests.

David DiPardo

King George


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> In case you haven't seen these. you are pro anti dog period.


No I'm anti-illegal, anti-low to no ethical hunters. Unfortunately that group happens to include a large % of dog chasers. 
I've said I'm not fond of dog hunting but I've also said if they do their activity without affecting mine it's fine.


For every good dog story you find there's a bad dog story to match it. I've been hunting in dog chasing lands for over 35 years. Sell it to someone else would you.


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## deepzak

Hokie, you pasted this article and the following statement was part of it:

“In some of the newer neighborhoods, like Colonial Heritage and Stonehouse, those lands have been hunted for years,” Anderson agreed. “And the dogs don’t know the difference. The dogs have been hunting this land for a long time.” 

This statement makes no sense. If you read the first part, it basically breaks down to the dogs do not reason that the dogs can't remember where they are supposed to run. In the second part it says the dogs do remember where they are supposed to run. Either the dogs are smart enough to retain knowledge, or they are not. My dog knows where my property ends, in fact, I often have to go pick up pooh from the neighbors yard because he walks to the property line and hangs his butt over to pooh. (dogs don't pooh in their own yard.:dontknow: ) Dog chasers let their dogs off where ever, the dogs just run because they haven't been trained. If these dogs had been trained, or knew their owners well, or were always let loose on the same land, there would never be a problem, the dogs would know where to stop running. The dogs don't care whose land it is, they just know to run or be shot.

"Increased suburbanization doesn’t help, according to the Virginia Department of Game & Inland Fisheries. As more and more traditional hunting land is given over to housing developments, newcomers often bring city sensibilities that conflict with rural Southern tradition."

What makes something a tradition? How long does it have to be in existance for it to be classified as a tradition? Or how many times does it have to occur to be a tradition? When dog running began in Virginia, there was no hunting season, or bag limits. Farmers got together with their hounds and ran deer when they needed to, irregardless of time of year, they took as many deer as they needed. It has only been within the last 60 years or so that you had to have a hunting license and observe game harvest limits. Is VHDA currently fighting the licensing requirements and harvest limits? It directly affects the "tradition" of dog running. I have been hunting without hounds for about 25 years, is that long enough to be classified as a tradition? What makes your tradition anymore important than mine? Are you that much more special or important?

Hokie, I know you won't answer even half of my questions, or you will quite possibly ignore my post altogether. I just wanted to get your take on this and give you some food for thought. Please feel free to defend/justify yourself.


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## BigBirdVA

The dogs chase the deer. If they go off the clubs lands then the dogs follow. A good pack of dogs are hard if not impossible to stop when they're on a chase.

Tradition = justification to keep affecting the property rights of others.


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## Hokieman

> For every good dog story you find there's a bad dog story to match it. I've been hunting in dog chasing lands for over 35 years. Sell it to someone else would you.


If there ever was a case of intoxicated with one’s own fumes, we have it here.:shade:


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## Hokieman

I don't have all the answers and sometimes I'll skip them to avoid conflict or an argument.


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## rwells

Been awhile since I checked this thread, really can't believe most of the crap I keep reading.

Has anyone here tried to rundown a hound in full sprint that is chasing deer? 

How many has actually caught one? Nope, didn't think so. 

It makes it hard to tell the Game Warden whose dogs are on your land when you can't catch them.


On the other side Hokieman, you talk about people being to lazy to make a phone call and yada, yada, yada. Well there are many people who believe in the SSS theory. It's a self policing theory.

Shoot 
Shovel
Silence


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## Moon

*I'll say it again................*

The very nature of deer chasing with dogs is invasive and intrusive. No way around it!! That's the WHOLE problem with it. It leads to trespassing on others' private property and taking away from their privacy and ability to use their own land as they want to. It's fundamentally WRONG to take advantage of others' privacy and rights just so a few can practice their chosen (so called) "sport".


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## MTNHunt

Moonkryket said:


> The very nature of deer chasing with dogs is invasive and intrusive. No way around it!! That's the WHOLE problem with it. It leads to trespassing on others' private property and taking away from their privacy and ability to use their own land as they want to. It's fundamentally WRONG to take advantage of others' privacy and rights just so a few can practice their chosen (so called) "sport".


The only thing that is fundamentally WRONG is your opinion which is stated above. 

I will say this over and over, as will many of the deer hunters and doggers in VIRGINIA, dog hunting is not and will not be banned in Virginia where it's legal now. When you use the word "few" you must have not hunted for long in Virginia, the vast majority of all clubs in the central and eastern part of the state have dogs for deer hunting. 

Maybe some different reg or some extra rules in the future, however, your extreme views and BigBirds extreme views are becoming to be comical.

Here are some questions for the die-hard anti-doggers, as a hunter, why try to ban anothers hunters way of hunting? My dog hunting in Central Virginia is not hurting your hunting in S.E. Virginia? But you want it banned?

And, all of this talk about shooting, trapping and killing dogs on this thread by the anti-doggers, however the anti-dog hunter (BigBird) wants to post newspaper articles about how the deerhound owners mistreat there dogs? Give me break, look in the MIRROR every time you get one of those deerdogs in your crosshairs, again the vast majority of deerhound owners spend alot of money and time taking care of the animals they hunt with. Perfect example that won't make the paper, my buddy spent $700 dollars on a dog with a broken leg from a car this year, no mistreating here? A friends deer jumping birddog was accidental shot by his son that was directly behind a deer, another $1200 bill, the list goes on and on.....the news paper article that are against deer hunters with dogs are obviously written by people who are anti-hunting and anti-killing........yet you anti-deer dog hunters want to take sides with them?

Last question, by banning dog hunting for deer do you really believe that the ball will stop rolling after that? You better look out it will be more hunting rights changed and challenge, you can bet your house on that! 

I know, the anti-doggers reply post to this will be OH, I don't want it banned, but I just want it regulated better and bigger penalities for trespassers. But truly, we (dog hunters) all know that the majority of the anti-dog hunters (which are hunters themselves) who have posted on this thread want it completely BANNED. Why?


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## BigBirdVA

MTNHunt said:


> ......Last question, by banning dog hunting for deer do you really believe that the ball will stop rolling after that? You better look out it will be more hunting rights changed and challenge, you can bet your house on that! ........


You're so right. Since there's no hunting deer with dogs in the western part of the state the national forests are almost empty on opening day. I hear they're working on banning all hunting right now as well. 
Just more dog chaser BS. 

Your buddy HM and his bunch are for zero regulations and in total denial there is even a problem. Keep right on in the path you're going. It's just a matter of time till it gets fixed. The present attitude just sends the message to those looking at it that it won't get fixed on any voluntary basis. When people are unwilling to come to any solution they do it for you. 



> the news paper article that are against deer hunters with dogs are obviously written by people who are anti-hunting and anti-killing........yet you anti-deer dog hunters want to take sides with them?


From the side that supports a group that sided with one of the largest anti-hunting groups - the HSUS. Remember Sunday hunting and the 2 there who opposed it? Try that sad story on someone else will you.

Still got to love how it's so darn awful for anyone to do anything about running out of season but yet they keep right on doing it don't they? Just goes to show they won't stop till they're forced to.


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## BigBirdVA

Moonkryket said:


> The very nature of deer chasing with dogs is invasive and intrusive. No way around it!! That's the WHOLE problem with it. It leads to trespassing on others' private property and taking away from their privacy and ability to use their own land as they want to. It's fundamentally WRONG to take advantage of others' privacy and rights just so a few can practice their chosen (so called) "sport".


Now that's a nice shirt! Where do you get one?


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## deepzak

MTNHunt said:


> The only thing that is fundamentally WRONG is your opinion which is stated above.


Opinions cannot be wrong. They may not be yours, or educated (although I believe Moon's is educated), but they cannot be wrong. They are opinions, someones personal beliefs on an issue.



MTNHunt said:


> I will say this over and over, as will many of the deer hunters and doggers in VIRGINIA, dog hunting is not and will not be banned in Virginia where it's legal now. When you use the word "few" you must have not hunted for long in Virginia, the vast majority of all clubs in the central and eastern part of the state have dogs for deer hunting.


What exactly is a "vast majority" to you? When I see that 3 out of 4 dog running clubs in my area are breaking the law, it would seem to me that the "vast majority" would be the reason the laws are changing. I could be wrong though. 



MTNHunt said:


> Here are some questions for the die-hard anti-doggers, as a hunter, why try to ban anothers hunters way of hunting? My dog hunting in Central Virginia is not hurting your hunting in S.E. Virginia? But you want it banned?
> 
> And, all of this talk about shooting, trapping and killing dogs on this thread by the anti-doggers, however the anti-dog hunter (BigBird) wants to post newspaper articles about how the deerhound owners mistreat there dogs? Give me break, look in the MIRROR every time you get one of those deerdogs in your crosshairs, again the vast majority of deerhound owners spend alot of money and time taking care of the animals they hunt with. Perfect example that won't make the paper, my buddy spent $700 dollars on a dog with a broken leg from a car this year, no mistreating here? A friends deer jumping birddog was accidental shot by his son that was directly behind a deer, another $1200 bill, the list goes on and on.....the news paper article that are against deer hunters with dogs are obviously written by people who are anti-hunting and anti-killing........yet you anti-deer dog hunters want to take sides with them?


Hello, kettle? This is pot...........your black. 

VHDA jumps in bed with HSUS (a known supporter and politcal allie of both PETA and A.L.F.) on the Sunday hunting ban repeal issue. That proposed legislation would affect only those who choose to hunt on Sundays, yet VHDA "Stongly Opposes" it. Why? Because of religious beliefs. Got 5 words for ya: Seperation of Church and State.



MTNHunt said:


> Last question, by banning dog hunting for deer do you really believe that the ball will stop rolling after that? You better look out it will be more hunting rights changed and challenge, you can bet your house on that!
> 
> I know, the anti-doggers reply post to this will be OH, I don't want it banned, but I just want it regulated better and bigger penalities for trespassers. But truly, we (dog hunters) all know that the majority of the anti-dog hunters (which are hunters themselves) who have posted on this thread want it completely BANNED. Why?


I think if you look back, you will see that all of us who are opposed to dog running as it currently stands only want to have enforceable regulations, better fines and policing. Yes, I think that it would be nice to never have to worry about a dog ruining my hunt again, but I know this wont happen. I am willing to share the outdoor's with anyone conducting legal hunting in a legal way. I just wish the same sentiment was held by the other side of this issue. There is too much of the "Me, Me, Me" attitude on the dog chasers side: It's my right, Those are My deer, My dogs cant read....... VHDA has done nothing to police those whom it claims to represent. If they had, there wouldn't be as big of an issue as there is, there wouldn't be someone arrested for dumping nails in the driveway's of those opposed to him (scare tactics, terrorism?). When VHDA does what it claims, maybe the state will stay out of it, until then, I say change the current laws to better bring to justice the law breakers.


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## deepzak

BigBirdVA said:


> Now that's a nice shirt! Where do you get one?


Ditto on that!!!!!! I think I have a few friends who might be interested too. PM me, or post here on where to get them, please!:thumbs_up


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## MTNHunt

BigBirdVA said:


> You're so right. Since there's no hunting deer with dogs in the western part of the state the national forests are almost empty on opening day. I hear they're working on banning all hunting right now as well.
> Just more dog chaser BS.
> 
> Your buddy HM and his bunch are for zero regulations and in total denial there is even a problem. Keep right on in the path you're going. It's just a matter of time till it gets fixed. The present attitude just sends the message to those looking at it that it won't get fixed on any voluntary basis. When people are unwilling to come to any solution they do it for you.
> 
> From the side that supports a group that sided with one of the largest anti-hunting groups - the HSUS. Remember Sunday hunting and the 2 there who opposed it? Try that sad story on someone else will you.
> 
> Still got to love how it's so darn awful for anyone to do anything about running out of season but yet they keep right on doing it don't they? Just goes to show they won't stop till they're forced to.


Hunting in the Western part of the state for deer is a much shorter season, so yes it will be a big crowd, so whats your point. The deer kills in the dog chasing part of the state are very substanial. Also, I believe in parts of Bedford and some other counties, the VA reg states that during opening week of deer season, no dogs...look it up. Also, during deer season, they are a lot of Bear hunters with dogs, you want to ban that to, yeah right.

As far as the Sunday hunting, I am for it. Don't assume that all dog chasers are against it. Just as you believe that the whole dog hunting community are lazy and a bunch of law breakers, your wrong. This issue looks to be getting a lot more support since it was started some years ago, again don't think all dog hunters just dog hunt. Plenty of bow and muzzle load hunters are dog chasers and want Sunday hunting. In my opinion, it would give me a lot more time to do this and it would help the weekend hunter to get themselves and possible more kids involved in hunting. 

Whether you want to belive it or not, the most common theme by all of the people in the study is that the Deer hunter with dogs is the most visible to the non hunting public whether they are legal or not. So, go figure, that is why the anti-hunter wants to make an issue out of it, and your views and other anti-dog hunters want to help them? Who is really doing the hunting community a dis-service, you and your anti-doggers.

And lastly, don't think so quickly that the dog hunting community is going to stand by and let someone or the law makers change our rights. Already, I have seen alot of counties stepping up and supporting the dog hunter by passing resolutions in supporting this type of hunting and how important it is to the economics and wealthfare of the community. Whether you want to believe this or not it's a FACT. So push your tee-shirts on to PETA and the anti-hunters, since most true hunters, whether against dogs or not would see this as stupidity. I am sure if you call PETA, they would give you some donations in furthing your fight to ban dog hunting for deer in Virginia. Then you can look to the dog hunter groups to help you defend your crossbow hunting when the anti-groups go after that.:sad:

The biggest BS is that the anti-dog hunter wants deerhounds banned so bad, and they would stoop to the lowest form of doing this by siding with the anti-hunter. Good job, nice way to perserve the HUNTING HERITAGE in America, why don't all the anti-dog hunters move to Califorinia, they would get along with the non-hunting public out there, Great job that state is doing for the hunter. You can finger print your bullets and arrows and worry about law suits every time you kill an animal.


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## BigBirdVA

MTNHunt said:


> Hunting in the Western part of the state for deer is a much shorter season, so yes it will be a big crowd, so whats your point. The deer kills in the dog chasing part of the state are very substanial. Also, I believe in parts of Bedford and some other counties, the VA reg states that during opening week of deer season, no dogs...look it up. Also, during deer season, they are a lot of Bear hunters with dogs, you want to ban that to, yeah right.


 Fact - Deer kills in the dog chasing part of VA are about 1 deer per square mile more than the non-dog chasing part. The non-dog gets a 2 week season the chasers get a 8 week season. Who's more efficient? Given the time vs kills numbers the non-dog part blows the dog chasers away. More dog chasing BS. I've got facts and figures straight from VDGIF on that one.



> As far as the Sunday hunting, I am for it. Don't assume that all dog chasers are against it. Just as you believe that the whole dog hunting community are lazy and a bunch of law breakers, your wrong. This issue looks to be getting a lot more support since it was started some years ago, again don't think all dog hunters just dog hunt. Plenty of bow and muzzle load hunters are dog chasers and want Sunday hunting. In my opinion, it would give me a lot more time to do this and it would help the weekend hunter to get themselves and possible more kids involved in hunting.


 Then why support a group that's against it? 



> Whether you want to belive it or not, the most common theme by all of the people in the study is that the Deer hunter with dogs is the most visible to the non hunting public whether they are legal or not. So, go figure, that is why the anti-hunter wants to make an issue out of it, and your views and other anti-dog hunters want to help them? Who is really doing the hunting community a dis-service, you and your anti-doggers.


 More BS. I'm for control of the dog chasers. HM and his clan are against any measures to stop the problems. I've said if the dog chasers keep to their own time and lands I could care less what they do. They presently do not.



> And lastly, don't think so quickly that the dog hunting community is going to stand by and let someone or the law makers change our rights. Already, I have seen alot of counties stepping up and supporting the dog hunter by passing resolutions in supporting this type of hunting and how important it is to the economics and wealthfare of the community. Whether you want to believe this or not it's a FACT. So push your tee-shirts on to PETA and the anti-hunters, since most true hunters, whether against dogs or not would see this as stupidity. I am sure if you call PETA, they would give you some donations in furthing your fight to ban dog hunting for deer in Virginia. Then you can look to the dog hunter groups to help you defend your crossbow hunting when the anti-groups go after that.:sad:


 I'll do whatever it takes to get the dog chasers under control.



> The biggest BS is that the anti-dog hunter wants deerhounds banned so bad, and they would stoop to the lowest form of doing this by siding with the anti-hunter. Good job, nice way to perserve the HUNTING HERITAGE in America, why don't all the anti-dog hunters move to Califorinia, they would get along with the non-hunting public out there, Great job that state is doing for the hunter. You can finger print your bullets and arrows and worry about law suits every time you kill an animal.


As stated above that's what the VHDA did. Obviously and as usual, it's only ok if your side does it.


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## Moon

*Mtn*

Just so you know...............I've been in SE Virginia for 48 years. I really don't need any education from you or others on the subject of deer chasing, the numbers of slobs that are in those ranks and, BTW, your recommendation that all property owners that don't like being trampled upon by deer chasers just move to California is totally asinine. A prediction for you:

Deer chasing with dogs WILL end in Virginia. It's just amatter of time. In the meantime you keep supporting the trampling of property owners' privacy. It will all fall in place.

Comical??? Just in YOUR opinion. Keep laughing until the deer chasing door slams in your face


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## MTNHunt

Moonkryket said:


> Just so you know...............I've been in SE Virginia for 48 years. I really don't need any education from you or others on the subject of deer chasing, the numbers of slobs that are in those ranks and, BTW, your recommendation that all property owners that don't like being trampled upon by deer chasers just move to California is totally asinine. A prediction for you:
> 
> Deer chasing with dogs WILL end in Virginia. It's just amatter of time. In the meantime you keep supporting the trampling of property owners' privacy. It will all fall in place.
> 
> Comical??? Just in YOUR opinion. Keep laughing until the deer chasing door slams in your face


Your tee-shirt and ideas about what to do with the dog hunters debate are the only thing that is asinine. The Califorinia remark was in reference to the stupid laws they have put in place that are againsted the gun owners and hunters. You and BigBird would fit in great.

And, there is no doubt in my mind that you have no education what so ever about hunting with deer dogs. Your 38 years of education received an "F". Go back to school.

And, along with your prediction, guess what I have one for you, not in your lifetime will you see an end to dog hunting with hounds in Virginia, maybe some changes, but not a ban. Whether you like it or believe it, they are plenty of lawabiding and respectful hunters who own and use dogs for deer. You said on the other post that your 65, well sorry you won't see any ban in that time frame. Too bad, by all means keep the BS coming though.ukey:


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## Moon

*I was involved with chasing deer for*

15 years. No education huh? And you grading me is also ridiculous.

Let me try to make this simple so you will maybe understand where I'm coming from: I want to be able to have my property for MY use and not share it with others. Do you get it???????????? I paid for my property and pay taxes on it just as you do on yours I assume. I also think you would not want me trespassing on your property and enterfering with your use of YOUR property. If you don't understand that then you are surely an example of why deer chasing is at the point that it is today.


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## coxva

MTNHunt said:


> Whether you want to belive it or not, the most common theme by all of the people in the study is that the Deer hunter with dogs is the most visible to the non hunting public whether they are legal or not. So, go figure, that is why the anti-hunter wants to make an issue out of it, and your views and other anti-dog hunters want to help them? Who is really doing the hunting community a dis-service, you and your anti-doggers.


I am a hunter. I sure don't want dog chasers to be the representatives of my sport. Dog chasing upsets the non hunting public and the hunting public. Seems like everyone is wrong, but the dog chasers. They don't have a problem so there is no problem. I am a hunter, not a dog chaser.


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## MTNHunt

Moonkryket said:


> 15 years. No education huh? And you grading me is also ridiculous.
> 
> Let me try to make this simple so you will maybe understand where I'm coming from: I want to be able to have my property for MY use and not share it with others. Do you get it???????????? I paid for my property and pay taxes on it just as you do on yours I assume. I also think you would not want me trespassing on your property and enterfering with your use of YOUR property. If you don't understand that then you are surely an example of why deer chasing is at the point that it is today.


Yes, I understand that you don't want any trespassers and dog chasers intentially hunting your land, but what about the law-abiding deer hunters with dogs and the other areas of the state that don't have the problems. Ban it for them.:sad: That is not fair and where I drawn the line at all of the negative and mis-representative comments about hunters who hunt this way with dogs legally. It is not fair that you have to deal with the bad end of the dog chasers, but it seems to me that the law could get involved and it would be stopped. Surely, not every GW and LO in your county is blind to this breaking of the laws so obviously on your property? Or BigBirds.

Basically, the anti-dog hunter wants it banned because they don't like it. Well, just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can classify all houndsmen and deer hunters with dogs as trash and slobs. Yeah, Yeah, Deepzak says that all of you are not for banning it, but based on all of your post, it sure looks that way. I am all for a way to punish the bad hunters with dogs, however, I am also for the right to keep hunting with dogs during gun season.

Here one for you, I would never, never, never use a crossbow, I don't like them, I believe it is to easy for the average joe to set-up and believe he can kill deer with it at 70 yards. My opinion, probally pisses you off, but it alot of Compound and Traditional bow hunters opinion. Look back at some of the threads on here. Would I try to ban it or stop it NO, I just wouldn't hunt with one. In looking over some old threads on here, that was a hot debate. I believe AT created a new section, so the Xbowers could post? Thats the difference in me and you. Read my new quote, it suits this who debate perfectly.


----------



## MTNHunt

coxva said:


> I am a hunter. I sure don't want dog chasers to be the representatives of my sport. Dog chasing upsets the non hunting public and the hunting public. Seems like everyone is wrong, but the dog chasers. They don't have a problem so there is no problem. I am a hunter, not a dog chaser.


I am a bow hunter, muzzle load hunter, deer dog hunter, still hunter, bird hunters, rabbit hunter, duck hunter and anything else I can hunt.

It seems like to me too many hunters are influence by the non-hunting public and want to hide the fact they hunt.:sad: Hide Deer that are being checked at stores and don't talk about it at work and so on, and so on...

Well, not me, as long as it is legal I am all for it, I may or may not hunt that way(i.e. high fence) but I would never lobby to ban it as a HUNTER.

I guess, if you really want to know how I feel, watch one of Ted Nugents shows. HE is a GREAT SPOKESPERSON for all types of hunting legally. 

I wish I could contact him to do a Dog hunt for deer in Virginia, I am sure he wouldn't bash it like the anti-dog hunter groups on here.:wink:


----------



## BigBirdVA

Funny I don't ever remember seeing a show with Ted chasing deer with dogs. Most places he goes they figured it out long ago and don't let the dog chasers ruin the hunting. Ted's a hunter not a chaser.


----------



## MTNHunt

BigBirdVA said:


> Funny I don't ever remember seeing a show with Ted chasing deer with dogs. Most places he goes they figured it out long ago and don't let the dog chasers ruin the hunting. Ted's a hunter not a chaser.


I think you need to reread my post, I never said it was a show. I wish that he would come to Virginia and particpate in a hunt with dogs.

Then again, I would espect nothing less from you to put your spin on my post.:sad:

Ted is a fighter and representative for all hunters who persue there legal way of hunting game however that may be, and you can use your definition of the dog deer hunter any way you like, I don't care if you don't think it is not hunting, because it is and will always be despite of your definion. Your :sad:... My club doesn't have to chase the dogs, because we kill the deer and it easy to round them up. 

I guess all the hunters who use dogs to hunt wild pigs are chasers to? Yeah right. 

I guess all the hunters who use dogs to hunt mountain lions are chasers too?

I guess all the hunters who use dog for bear hunts, are chasers too? 

I guess all the hunters who use dogs to hunt polar bears, chasers too?

I guess all the hunters who use dogs for rabbits, they are chasers too?

Can't you do a little better in using the word chaser?
Oh well.

Repling to you is like beating a dead horse.


----------



## BigBirdVA

MTNHunt said:


> I think you need to reread my post, I never said it was a show. I wish that he would come to Virginia and particpate in a hunt with dogs.
> 
> Then again, I would espect nothing less from you to put your spin on my post.:sad:
> 
> Ted is a fighter and representative for all hunters who persue there legal way of hunting game however that may be, and you can use your definition of the dog deer hunter any way you like, I don't care if you don't think it is not hunting, because it is and will always be despite of your definion. Your :sad:... My club doesn't have to chase the dogs, because we kill the deer and it easy to round them up.
> 
> I guess all the hunters who use dogs to hunt wild pigs are chasers to? Yeah right.
> 
> I guess all the hunters who use dogs to hunt mountain lions are chasers too?
> 
> I guess all the hunters who use dog for bear hunts, are chasers too?
> 
> I guess all the hunters who use dogs to hunt polar bears, chasers too?
> 
> I guess all the hunters who use dogs for rabbits, they are chasers too?
> 
> Can't you do a little better in using the word chaser?
> Oh well.
> 
> Repling to you is like beating a dead horse.


It's established that deer hunting with dogs consists of the dogs chasing the deer to those waiting. It consists of chasing after the dogs when the hunts is over. There is more chasing in it than hunting. Actually there is zero hunting unless you call the act of shooting hunting. I'm sure you're not capable of seeing the difference. Sure sounds like chasing to me. 

Many game animals are chased or hunted with dogs. A lot are hunted like that because it's ineffective or very unproductive to use other methods. They don't hunt bear with dogs in a lot of other states because it's legal to bait them. If you could bait bear in VA you wouldn't need dogs. Ive got zero first hand experience with dog hunting for bears so I'm not going to comment on it. Deer can effectively be hunted without dogs so there is no need to chase. It's by choice. It's a zero hunting skilled method to kill game. Other than being shot with a gun it has nothing in common with real hunting. Many other states see that and even half of VA sees that. I've stated, and if you bothered to read instead of post drivel you might have caught it. If dog chasers could do their chasing without interfering with others then go for it. That means no dogs on another's lands without permission and no hunters chasing dogs on others lands as well. No out of season training. That means zero dogs chasing after deer in others seasons. The deer is a fox loophole is pure crap and needs to be fixed as well. Get it to where dog chasing doesn't impact others on their own lands and it might have a chance. 

We can only guess what kind of hunt Ted might do based on what he does his show. It's our only way to guess what he might do. Since he's mostly a bow hunter I doubt he would chase deer with dogs. Sure Ted might go on a squeaky clean dog chase but if he was exposed to the crap the dog chasers do on a regular basis I'm sure he would have lots to say about them. In theory dog chasing doesn't sound so bad. It's the many slob hunters that are attracted to this skill less method of shooting a deer that cause the problems. It needs to be cleaned up a lot to even be close to calling it a sport.


----------



## jfish

*Chasers*

Yes they are all chasers! However, rarely do any of them except Deer Chasers negatively impact others. Heck if I was a Rabbit, Bear, ****, or fox chaser I would be highly pissed at all of the negative attention the deer chasers have brought upon the sport. I would create a clear separation from deer hound chasers. 

My view on the matter isn't just because I have no interest in hounds, it's because it abuses other hunters rights nothing more nothing less. 

Xbows, NO! don't like them think it was wrong allowing them into the woods but its legal. More importantly it does not negatively impact my hunt and does not impact my rights as and individual or property owner. 

Inline ML NO! don't like them think it was wrong allowing them in to what was called a Primitive Weapons Season. However, it is legal and does not negatively impact my rights.

Optics on ML. NO! Can't believe they let this one in 15 years ago. But it's legal and does not negatively impact my rights.

Deer Chasers, I have to say No or significant change. Why? because they DO negatively impact my rights and as of today it is legal.. Therein lies the problem. 

So as you can see, although I have no interest in many of the legal methods of hunting I am not trying to ban them. WHY? because it does not negatively impact others. So statements like "you are only against this because you don't like hunting this way" are clearly false.

One more thought. Calling them Hound Chasers is not correct and I encourage everyone to take the time to correctly identify who you are referring to.. It's Deer Hound Chasers that are causing the problems no one else...


----------



## MTNHunt

BigBirdVA said:


> It's established that deer hunting with dogs consists of the dogs chasing the deer to those waiting. It consists of chasing after the dogs when the hunts is over. There is more chasing in it than hunting. Actually there is zero hunting unless you call the act of shooting hunting. I'm sure you're not capable of seeing the difference. Sure sounds like chasing to me.
> Many game animals are chased or hunted with dogs. A lot are hunted like that because it's ineffective or very unproductive to use other methods. They don't hunt bear with dogs in a lot of other states because it's legal to bait them. If you could bait bear in VA you wouldn't need dogs. Ive got zero first hand experience with dog hunting for bears so I'm not going to comment on it. Deer can effectively be hunted without dogs so there is no need to chase. It's by choice. It's a zero hunting skilled method to kill game. Other than being shot with a gun it has nothing in common with real hunting. Many other states see that and even half of VA sees that. I've stated, and if you bothered to read instead of post drivel you might have caught it. If dog chasers could do their chasing without interfering with others then go for it. That means no dogs on another's lands without permission and no hunters chasing dogs on others lands as well. No out of season training. That means zero dogs chasing after deer in others seasons. The deer is a fox loophole is pure crap and needs to be fixed as well. Get it to where dog chasing doesn't impact others on their own lands and it might have a chance.
> 
> We can only guess what kind of hunt Ted might do based on what he does his show. It's our only way to guess what he might do. Since he's mostly a bow hunter I doubt he would chase deer with dogs. Sure Ted might go on a squeaky clean dog chase but if he was exposed to the crap the dog chasers do on a regular basis I'm sure he would have lots to say about them. In theory dog chasing doesn't sound so bad. It's the many slob hunters that are attracted to this skill less method of shooting a deer that cause the problems. It needs to be cleaned up a lot to even be close to calling it a sport.


Boy, I am glad to know that this thread and forum about this issue is indeed a persons opinion, like Deepzak said early.

Did you learn that in your experience in deer dog hunting when you say you participated in it years ago? No wander you no nothing about it.

Yes, deer hunting with dogs is very much about hunting. It is also about chasing and listening to the dogs. Sorry you can't understand that, because you can get over the fact that the Deer Dog Hunter has rights and groups (and even Politicians) that are in support of this type of hunting in Virginia. You talk like every one that hunts in VA hates the deer houndsmen, well sorry, thats not the case, I know...blah..blah...

O.K. HERE IS THE NUMBER ONE QUESTION, IF USING DOGS FOR DEER IS NOT HUNTING, THEN WHY DOES THE GAME LAWS STATE IT AS A LEGAL MEANS OF HUNTING DEER IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE STATE OF VIRGINIA? DUH? IF IT NOT HUNTING, THEN WHY CAN'T I CHASE DOGS IN THE NON_HUNTING SEASONS?  Heck, if I was out chasing deer during the deer season and the GW stop me and wanted to see my hunting license, I THINK I WILL TELL HIM THAT I AIN"T HUNTING, BigBYRD on AT said it wasn't hunting it's just chasing. Yeah, right. 

BigBird and other anti-dog hunters, go argue with the Game Dept. and why they call it hunting, your logic is only to degrade and make people who hunt this way look BAD, because you don't like it. PERIOD. What a pile of B.S.


----------



## BigBirdVA

MTNHunt said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Boy, I am glad to know that this thread and forum about this issue is indeed a persons opinion, like Deepzak said early.
> 
> Did you learn that in your experience in deer dog hunting when you say you participated in it years ago? No wander you no nothing about it.
> 
> Yes, deer hunting with dogs is very much about hunting. It is also about chasing and listening to the dogs. Sorry you can't understand that, because you can get over the fact that the Deer Dog Hunter has rights and groups (and even Politicians) that are in support of this type of hunting in Virginia. You talk like every one that hunts in VA hates the deer houndsmen, well sorry, thats not the case, I know...blah..blah...
> 
> O.K. HERE IS THE NUMBER ONE QUESTION, IF USING DOGS FOR DEER IS NOT HUNTING, THEN WHY DOES THE GAME LAWS STATE IT AS A LEGAL MEANS OF HUNTING DEER IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE STATE OF VIRGINIA? DUH? IF IT NOT HUNTING, THEN WHY CAN'T I CHASE DOGS IN THE NON_HUNTING SEASONS?  Heck, if I was out chasing deer during the deer season and the GW stop me and wanted to see my hunting license, I THINK I WILL TELL HIM THAT I AIN"T HUNTING, BigBYRD on AT said it wasn't hunting it's just chasing. Yeah, right.
> 
> BigBird and other anti-dog hunters, go argue with the Game Dept. and why they call it hunting, your logic is only to degrade and make people who hunt this way look BAD, because you don't like it. PERIOD. What a pile of B.S.


You have to have a fishing license to net fish even though you're not fishing in the real sense of line and lure. They call shooting deer chased by dogs hunting even thought there is no hunting involved. Similar comparison for the two. The VDGIF lumps all taking of game animals into either hunting or fishing, with trapping in there as well. Dog chasers the key point is possession of the deer, other hunters it's the taking of the deer. In fishing netting vs line and lure amount to the same issues. How you get it not just having it. Just like spotlighting at night is considered an un-sportsman like method as the animal doesn't have a fair chance to escape or avoid being shot. Dog chasing amounts to the same for many people and many other states also view it as an un-sportsman like method. Depends on how one is raised and state standards for taking game animals. Times change. The time is now.


----------



## Moon

*Mtn*

Whether you beleive it or not I'm not against total ban of deer chasing in VA if laws and methods can be developed to end trespassing and enterfearing with private property owners' rights. I do not think it's possible but I am open minded enough to give it a chance. 

Also please keep in mind that you are reading the posts of a traditional bowhunter starting back in 1962, bowhunting with compounds and long bows up until 3 years ago AND a land owner in Prince George County so I have more reasons to complain about the deer chasing situation than most. I don't consider myself a narrow minded person and the proof that I have nothing against crossbows in bowseason show that. That is another subject that need not be discussed here IMO. There were only 3 days during December that I hunted without dogs running across my property or close enough to it to ruin my hunt. If you see that as just something I need to contend with and live with on MY property, you and I will never see eye to eye on deer chasing. I realize that the actions I'm taking to end this intrusion on my property won't be helped by my arguing with dog owners on this and other sites. I do it so Virginia land owners can see for themselves what we are up against and to see the mind set of the typical dog owner that chases deer.


----------



## 3sheets

*Yo Zak*

Looks sorta like striiiiiiike #1 on Derick, hey ? :wink:

http://www.roanoke.com/outdoors/billcochran/mail/wb/xp-index


Geez, I wonder howz the VHDA's planned "back-door" re-organization of the VDGIF is going these days ... can you say striiiiiike #2 is emminent ?? 


You got that "flaming fastball slider" :flame: pitch of yern ready for the 3rd pitch ???


----------



## BigBirdVA

3sheets said:


> Looks sorta like striiiiiiike #1 on Derick, hey ? :wink:
> 
> http://www.roanoke.com/outdoors/billcochran/mail/wb/xp-index
> 
> 
> Geez, I wonder howz the VHDA's planned "back-door" re-organization of the VDGIF is going these days ... can you say striiiiiike #2 is emminent ??
> 
> 
> You got that "flaming fastball slider" :flame: pitch of yern ready for the 3rd pitch ???


BUSTED ! ! ! LOL

WOW ! They tied to copy the name of a real organization with their acronym. Seems sneaky and underhanded. Hmmmmm???? Sort of fits doesn't it?


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> BUSTED ! ! ! LOL
> 
> WOW ! They tied to copy the name of a real organization with their acronym. Seems sneaky and underhanded. Hmmmmm???? Sort of fits doesn't it?


That statement is incorrect.:tongue:


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> That statement is incorrect.:tongue:


Yes I know. The whole world, well at least 1/2 of VA. is wrong, and you're right.


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## 3sheets

:lightbulb Is it just me, or has someone turned up missing on the Internet here recently ?? :tape2: :bolt:

Alrighty guys, lets all be sure to keep an extra eye on our milk cartons in the morning !! :chortle:


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## deepzak

3sheets said:


> :lightbulb Is it just me, or has someone turned up missing on the Internet here recently ?? :tape2: :bolt:
> 
> Alrighty guys, lets all be sure to keep an extra eye on our milk cartons in the morning !! :chortle:


He's not MIA he's just lurking, here and on other sites. I guess he'll chime in when the "pig slayer" has some new catch phrase or propoganda to spread. After all, Hokie is the voice of the VHDA, no other board member is out touting the association like him, and they release all official position through him. 

He was here this morning, he was on the Cabela's site yesterday (all his posts have been shut down over there. Seems they don't think too much of him, they keep asking why he continues to post there), and on American Waterfowler on the 10th (same thing, they are calling for a ban on him.) I guess I need to check the other websites too, see what they are saying about him. 

We need to start a recon patrol to keep an eye out while visiting other sites. I for one do not like unchecked propaganda, and would like to know what others are saying out there.


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## huntwalkers

3 SHEETS
STRIKE 3 for VHDA may be closer than you think?!:wink:

I have laid off the internet searches and been out beating the bushes this past week or so, and I have uncovered some very interesting new info. on VA Hunting Dog Alliance and who they really are or should I say ARE NOT representing (According to their web-site). I will be sure to let you all in on it just as soon as I get everything signed, sealed and delivered to all of the General Assembly Members and several other people that I think will be very interested in seeing how their business records are being possibly used or should I say possibly MISUSED??

______________________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!


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## 3sheets

Great to see ya again Huntwalkers !! :wink:

Sounds your short "sabatacal" was both enjoyable and rewarding, sure wish I would have been able to join in all of the fun; perhaps you will let me partake in your next "sojourn" ?? :bounce:


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## ban_t

huntwalkers said:


> 3 SHEETS
> STRIKE 3 for VHDA may be closer than you think?!:wink:
> 
> I have laid off the internet searches and been out beating the bushes this past week or so, and I have uncovered some very interesting new info. on VA Hunting Dog Alliance and who they really are or should I say ARE NOT representing (According to their web-site). I will be sure to let you all in on it just as soon as I get everything signed, sealed and delivered to all of the General Assembly Members and several other people that I think will be very interested in seeing how their business records are being possibly used or should I say possibly MISUSED??
> 
> ______________________
> huntwalkers
> 
> JUST because they have a hound dog, That DON'T make them a Houndsman!



Mark Twain once wrote: " A LIE CAN TRAVEL HALF WAY AROUND THE WORLD WHILE TRUTH IS PUTTING IT'S SHOES ON" 
The damage is done but truth will pervail, sometime it takes it's time.
Lenin once pronounced: " If you tell a lie enough it becomes truth" 

So I ask HM are you telling the truth or just trying too spin it" (deflection of truth to meet your means via a lie) 
I have seen many post's that are truth on both sides. I fail too see anything from you HM to back up most statement's just spin. 
Any position that backs up H.S.U.S IS WRONG, as I have seen in many post's and your website, Opps (spin) the VHDA SITE. 
You (VHDA) Really should backing the Laws that will take out the 2%-1% bad hound hunters as so stated. Allowing fair laws too be past instead of NO TO ALL attitude. Compromise is the best route for all. 
Yes I do have intrest in this due too I will hunt Va and fish there often. Not a Native of Va but lived there and have many freinds that are Natives of the Great state of VA.
I have asked many of the freind that I have in Va about Hound hunting there and they are spilt and maintain that the laws need too be changed as they stand.


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## ban_t

Wow, no contact what's up you thinking hm


----------



## Hokieman

ban_t said:


> Mark Twain once wrote: " A LIE CAN TRAVEL HALF WAY AROUND THE WORLD WHILE TRUTH IS PUTTING IT'S SHOES ON"
> The damage is done but truth will pervail, sometime it takes it's time.
> Lenin once pronounced: " If you tell a lie enough it becomes truth"
> 
> So I ask HM are you telling the truth or just trying too spin it" (deflection of truth to meet your means via a lie)
> I have seen many post's that are truth on both sides. I fail too see anything from you HM to back up most statement's just spin.
> Any position that backs up H.S.U.S IS WRONG, as I have seen in many post's and your website, Opps (spin) the VHDA SITE.
> You (VHDA) Really should backing the Laws that will take out the 2%-1% bad hound hunters as so stated. Allowing fair laws too be past instead of NO TO ALL attitude. Compromise is the best route for all.
> Yes I do have intrest in this due too I will hunt Va and fish there often. Not a Native of Va but lived there and have many freinds that are Natives of the Great state of VA.
> I have asked many of the freind that I have in Va about Hound hunting there and they are spilt and maintain that the laws need too be changed as they stand.


The truth is yes there is a problem with some hound hunters abusing the law. We are working on a solution to that problem but I will not put on an open forum to debate or allow any to destroy. The hunting retreiving bill that creigh deeds has submitted is a bad bill because it enforces stricter penalities on the hunting dog community. If it would have included all trespassers, we would have supported the bill but to single hunting dog owners out as main trespassers is unacceptable.


----------



## ban_t

So what are the negitive effects of the following bills other than they well improve hunting options. sb708 urban hunting, HB1456 SUNDAY HUNTING
How can you with a clear mind oppose another day of hunting with a bow?


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## deepzak

Hokieman said:


> The truth is yes there is a problem with some hound hunters abusing the law. We are working on a solution to that problem but I will not put on an open forum to debate or allow any to destroy. The hunting retreiving bill that creigh deeds has submitted is a bad bill because it enforces stricter penalities on the hunting dog community. If it would have included all trespassers, we would have supported the bill but to single hunting dog owners out as main trespassers is unacceptable.


There is already a law on the books reguarding other types of hunters who tresspass. Are you willing to fight to revoke that law because it does not include all hunters?


----------



## ban_t

Hokieman said:


> The truth is yes there is a problem with some hound hunters abusing the law. We are working on a solution to that problem but I will not put on an open forum to debate or allow any to destroy. The hunting retreiving bill that creigh deeds has submitted is a bad bill because it enforces stricter penalities on the hunting dog community. If it would have included all trespassers, we would have supported the bill but to single hunting dog owners out as main trespassers is unacceptable.


THEY ARE :moon: THE ONES 

Uhhhhh you already put it on open debate and a forum by posting here. It also is the Va assembly, So it is up too open debate :chicken01:.
So what are you trying too hide? That was just a lame answer HM at this piont I know that you and your group are not worth support. I at least thought you would back other hunters but since it is only about hounds :dog1: you are useless too all hunters. That also goes with your group of Anti Hunters Pro Hound Hunters Group
The A.H.P.H.H.G


----------



## jfish

*trespassing*

Although I typically don;t agree with Hokie and most definately do not agree with VHDA. On the trespass bill I have to say it's not fair or right to make the penalty stiffer just because you are trespassing with hounds. I would suggest the simple answer is to just remove the trespass to hunt code and make all trespassing simply trespassing a class one misdemeanor. Doesn't matter why you are trespassing, you are not suppose to be there for any reason.


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## 3sheets

:lightbulb Perhaps the VHDA is planning to sell Derick's autographs for an upcoming fundraiser?? Seems he is under the spotlight yet again ... 

http://www.roanoke.com/outdoors/billcochran/mail/wb/xp-index

.. Hell, even as cheap as I am, I'd still prolly contribute a $1 for a window sticker of a Dog urinating on VHDA letters with Derick's siggy on em !! :set1_rolf2:


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## BigBirdVA

Like this?


----------



## 3sheets

It needs a little something more .. howz bout *"Say Yes to Sunday Hunting" *at the top ?? 

Get about 10,000 made for the 1st batch, sell em for say a $12 "contribution", and bingo you've got at least $100k clear towards the Sunday Hunting Fund .. and all thanks to Derick's advanced advertizing program in our behalf !! :wink: :zip:


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## 206Moose

I am from southwest Va and as you know hunting with dogs is illegal in this part of the state. Yet we still have problems with people running deer with dogs although I am sure it doesn't compare to the problems you guys have where it is legal. People that don't live in VA have now idea how bad the situation is. However once you show them how our current laws read they usually change their mind. At one time I was opposed to banning deer hunting with dogs but after reading this thread and a few more this hokieman is posting on I am for a total ban on hunting deer with dogs. These dog hunters refuse to even acknowledge their is a problem and come to a reasonable compromise so everyone can enjoy their chosen method of hunting. Bottom line is if you can't keep your dogs off other people's property then you shouldn't be allowed to use them. Why is it so hard for the dog hunters to understand that if someone owns a peice of land the landowner has the right to say who, what, where, and when someone can come onto their property?


----------



## Moon

*They do understand it*

That's the arrogance of it all. They don't give a rat's azz about anyone else whether it be land owners' rights or real hunters that don't have to resort to chasing deer with dogs to kill one. The cat's out of the bag now and private land owners and real hunters must keep fighting for what's right...........................and what's right "ain't" chasing deer with dogs year round and using the trespassing law, they had sneaked in years ago while nobody was paying attention, to invade others' property with the excuse of looking for dogs. 

During the last 2 weeks I've had several deer chases across my property and have seen trucks with dog boxes driving slowly up and down the road looking for dogs. It's almost March folks!! Doe deer are pregant now and still can't get a break from the insanity.


----------



## Thickshaft

Moon I like that shirt:icon_salut: Thats messed up that there running there butt lickers while the does are growing the next batch of bucks. A bunch of stupid non hunting maggots giving hunting a bad rep. I tell you what I'm glad I live out here where its not allowed or I would go to jail. Enough said.


----------



## Moon

*Land owners have to be careful to*

keep from having buckets of nails thrown in our driveways and bullet holes in our autos. It's been that bad for a while all the while the deer chasers are saying why can't we all just get along:angry: and this has been a tradition for years so we MUST continue with it. I say BS to that:thumbs_do The fact that we have some of them posting here on an archery/bowhunting site goes to show you their arrogance.


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## BigBirdVA

Looks like the anti-Sunday guys (AKA Hokieman) aren't welcome everywhere. Here's Derick crying the blues to a mod on another site. Got Kleenex?


http://vadeer.proboards42.com/index.cgi?board=issues&action=display&thread=1207146811&page=1#1207149800


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## Hokieman

Rick, LOL you big baby lol:wink:


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Rick, LOL you big baby lol:wink:


Bwwwwwwaaaa.......... big baby? Haven't sent emails or pm's to a mod ever on you or your load of crap. Nice try but no cookie. Now go pm a mod.


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## Hokieman

LOL, Rick Hutson thats right you never sent an email to a mod or pm one but you did send an email to Bill Cochran. CRYBABY CRYBABY CRYBABY:wink:

BILL: Glad to see the truth come out on Hokieman (Derick Ratcliff of the Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance). (See last week’s Cochran Mailbag). He’s been cruising, joining and stirring up issues on close to 100 Internet forms. He has done harm for the dog movement. He shows how narrow-minded and inconsiderate the dog hunters can be toward solving their problems.

His group also sided with the Humane Society of the United States, a well known anti-hunting organization, against the Sunday hunting bill. VHDA and HSUS were the only entities present that spoke opposing the Sunday hunting bill the day it was defeated in Richmond. 

I am not a dog hunter, just so you will know, and I don’t have a problem with hunters using dogs as long as it doesn’t impact on non-dog hunters and private landowners who don’t want dogs on their property. I’m tired of having someone’s dogs impact my bow season by chasing deer all morning 100 yards in a circle around me. 

It’s worse now than ever when it comes to out of season chasing. I’ve tried the game warden and animal control thing and they can’t stop it with the present laws. I read a lot of pro-dog stories of how great the sport is. How about those who have been impacted in a negative manner by dogs? It seems a one way street, but there is another side out there. 

I hope the hound hunting study isn’t another smoke blowing session by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. I just want it fixed so we can move on to other things. 

RICK HUTSON 


LOL LOL LOL WHO WAS CRYING RICK HUTSON AKA NO DEER DOGS 2009, RICKC, BIGBIRDVA, BIGGBIRDD


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> LOL, Rick Hutson thats right you never sent an email to a mod or pm one but you did send an email to Bill Cochran. CRYBABY CRYBABY CRYBABY:wink:


You must have a comprehension problem going there Derick. No crying, just to state what your true intentions are and you got busted by the real dog hunter group. 

I wasn't asking "please Mr. Mod make them stop" ! LOL 

You're just mad it's 100% correct and he posted it. Again nice try but no cookie.

:set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2:


BUSTED !!!!


> BILL: This message is to indicate that the nine-year old Virginia Hunting Dog Owners’ Association is not in any way affiliated with the new group calling itself the Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance. Our mission is to represent the interests of all ethical and law-abiding sporting, hound and mixed breed dog owners. We’ve worked hard at that in Richmond and Washington since early 2000. Internet postings by Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance board member Derick Ratcliffe (AKA Hokieman) in no way represent my views or those of VHDOA.
> 
> I encourage sportsmen to visit VHDOA’s General Assembly bill status page. Further, they can personally help protect our sport and dogs by signing up for VHDOA’s limited use alert list. This is especially important, because legislation moves very quickly in Richmond. Reading blogs or board reports don’t give you enough time to react.


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## Hokieman

Rick Hutson didn't the DGIF Board post a current statment to your buddy Bob. Seems he lied about a lawyer in a peta case. I remember you was bragging him all up on this forum about being a professional. LOL who was the fool. LOL:wink:


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Rick Hutson didn't the DGIF Board post a current statment to your buddy Bob. Seems he lied about a lawyer in a peta case. I remember you was bragging him all up on this forum about being a professional. LOL who was the fool. LOL:wink:


Derick Ratcliff I'm sorry I must have missed the part about me being his keeper. How about pointing me to that? He's a dog chaser you can't trust them any further than you can throw them. They say and do anything to further their agenda. You of all people should know. But I'll give you a "E" for effort for somehow trying to make me connected to a person I've never met or endorsed. Please show me the post you claim this happened in? The closest I've ever said anything positive about him or his group is his is the real or original dog hunters group in VA. - not the knock-off group. 
( That be you and your dog breath friends ! ) 


No dog biscuit today Derick.


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## Hokieman

Rick you know the post I'm refering too. remember you sent him an email to take your name out of his mailing list. then you appologized to him for accusing him of being VHDA. opps do we have altizmers.


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## 3sheets

BigBirdVA said:


> Bwwwwwwaaaa.......... big baby? Haven't sent emails or pm's to a mod ever on you or your load of crap. Nice try but no cookie. Now go pm a mod.


BB, as Derick's (aka "Hokieman" or "Simmon") bud "Bloodtrail" (aka, the 2nd coming of "Lungshot2") might say, *"BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO !!!!!" * :bounce:


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Rick you know the post I'm refering too. remember you sent him an email to take your name out of his mailing list. then you appologized to him for accusing him of being VHDA. opps do we have altizmers.


Sorry wrong Rick or something slipped in your mind. Never been on his email list. In fact I'm not on any hunting email lists except the VDGIF hound study. 

Regardless I've never joined or sided with him. This siding with the opposing team is your specialty. Did we forget the HSUS Sunday deal already?
Again I'm not his keeper or ally just because he and I both have your number (and now picture) doesn't make us friends. 

Still no dog biscuit today. In fact we're going to have to take one back as you're slipping the other way. And with great speed I might add.


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## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Sorry wrong Rick or something slipped in your mind. Never been on his email list. In fact I'm not on any hunting email lists except the VDGIF hound study.
> 
> Regardless I've never joined or sided with him. This siding with the opposing team is your specialty. Did we forget the HSUS Sunday deal already?
> Again I'm not his keeper or ally just because he and I both have your number (and now picture) doesn't make us friends.
> 
> Still no dog biscuit today. In fact we're going to have to take one back as you're slipping the other way. And with great speed I might add.


I got a picture too. A beavis and butthead limited editon.







:wink:


Wonder how that deer will look riding him. Hmmm?


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## rwells

Are you not smart enough to quit. You have done lost the war, it's really time to give up.


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## Hokieman

Shut Up Wells Mind Your Own Business.


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## BigBirdVA

I don't know what the picture is supposed to be or mean but you need a few more lessons in Photoshop.


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## rwells

Hokieman said:


> Shut Up Wells Mind Your Own Business.



LOL. What you gonna do internet tough guy?:tongue:


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## deepzak

Sounds like someone has a vendetta on ya BB. Keep your eyes open, ya might get attacked by a pack of collared yotes.:wink:


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## Hokieman

Come on boys lighten up a tad. I like each and everyone one of you guys. Your my pals. Right Rick.:tongue:


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## BigBirdVA

Whatever you say Alpo boy.


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## Moon

*This dog won't need any Alpo*

and the owner should be in jail but they are immune even to the existing weak deer chasing dog laws BUT they recently succeeded in having another law inacted that makes it illegal to remove a radio tracking collar from one of their dogs That tells me where their priorities are. I can't remove the collar from a dog that's intruding on my privacy but the owner can kill the dog at chasing season's end


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## Hokieman

Moonkryket said:


> and the owner should be in jail but they are immune even to the existing weak deer chasing dog laws BUT they recently succeeded in having another law inacted that makes it illegal to remove a radio tracking collar from one of their dogs That tells me where their priorities are. I can't remove the collar from a dog that's intruding on my privacy but the owner can kill the dog at chasing season's end



If you know who did it. go file charges. I agree this is awful. so stop whinning and file charges.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> If you know who did it. go file charges. I agree this is awful. so stop whinning and file charges.


My one call to AC resulted in a shock response. They said it's ok for a dog owner to dispatch a hunting dog for any reason they see fit. After that call what's the point of making more should you find another? There is no way you could prove who or what the circumstances were on the one in the picture. With the lack of concern by officials and the widespread knowledge that many hunters do this everyone seems to have a so what attitude on it.


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## deepzak

BigBirdVA said:


> My one call to AC resulted in a shock response. They said it's ok for a dog owner to dispatch a hunting dog for any reason they see fit. After that call what's the point of making more should you find another? There is no way you could prove who or what the circumstances were on the one in the picture. With the lack of concern by officials and the widespread knowledge that many hunters do this everyone seems to have a so what attitude on it.


With atrocities like this the law should be changed to allow a hunting dog to dispatch a dog owner for any reason they see fit :wink:


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## Hokieman

Yeap just what I thought...ukey:


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