# Is cheating really this prevalent???



## MKNOX (Jul 8, 2007)

I shot the R100 this weekend and had a blast. My son placed in the top 3 on both courses as well as winning a new bow in the steel challenge, But the rules clearly stated "No Rangefinders" it was even printed on the score cards. At least 75% of the groups we saw shoot were blatently using rangefinders and talking about yardages within the group and then turning in score cards for placement in the class they were shooting in. When we brought it to the attention of the official his response was " I can't patrol the whole course it is up to the shooters to be honest". I have to say I was more than a little dissapointed in the outcome since most of the high placers were those using rangefinders. I am very proud of my son for taking the high road and refusing to use a rangefinder and following the rules, especially since he shot so well. I wish adults could just be as honest and set a better example for the other kids shooting!!


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## GoosebyFLuFLu (Aug 12, 2011)

I can't believe the range guy told you that. It is a shame and I would hope you didn't lose money over this.(if you are good enough to place)


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## Lien2 (Aug 4, 2005)

WOW, that is just wrong of both the other shooters and the range guy.
We see some guys using rangefinders around here, but they don't turn a card in. If they do, they are beginners and don't know the rules and often times don't place near the top even with a rangefinder.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

cheaters just plain suck then to cheat for a little pin at a r100 what losers.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

It happens. I also ask if we can range the target after the shot. Most the time local shoots were there just for the judging.

Often just shoot a fun round if not allowed.

Yes cheating does happen unfortunately. Sad some say hey were just here to have fun. Well then dont keep score then or play the rules is what I tell them.

Congrats to you and nyour son
DB


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## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> It happens. I also ask if we can range the target after the shot. Most the time local shoots were there just for the judging.
> 
> Often just shoot a fun round if not allowed.
> 
> ...


I have heard before about some just wanting to range the target after the shot.......I just don't see the need. After I shoot my arrow, I know how far the target was. Just seems to me like a round about way to have a rangefinder on the course. I would rather see a no rangefinder at all policy and then the real cheaters would be easier to weed out. JMO


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

Happens at nearly every level especially locally!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

NP Archery said:


> I have heard before about some just wanting to range the target after the shot.......I just don't see the need. After I shoot my arrow, I know how far the target was. Just seems to me like a round about way to have a rangefinder on the course. I would rather see a no rangefinder at all policy and then the real cheaters would be easier to weed out. JMO


If shooting a fun round it shouldnt matter. But understand your point. Make the rules and Ill play by them. But honestly your kidding your self if you can know the exact yardage without a rangefinder evertime. Even when my buddies get together for shooting we dont allow them and play just like it was a ASA. I normally go back and randgefind them just for the exsperiance and seeing what that target looks like at certian distances and oftne make notes.
DB


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## sbflwv (Dec 20, 2010)

Yes, cheating really is that prevalent. I could really care less though, I shoot with my family and friends and we have a blast plus its awesome practice for hunting. If someone is cheating on the 3D course they are really only cheating themselves.


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## Archerywarrior (Apr 17, 2005)

Well put sbflwv,agree totally only cheating themselves,and in end comes out one way or another. we had a fellow locally always shooting up,and when the team shoot comes around he cant break 280.We just have to stick to our guns and keep shootin away the right way. As for taking a range finder to double check yourself after shot,i say is ok as long as you dont turn in score card,because you have other shooters watching and they may not know that a group is doing this and think you r cheating.


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## bardman (Oct 18, 2006)

When I was shooting for serious I didnt like anyone with a rangefinder shooting in the group that turned in a score cause the local shoots are the worst about it. If the range finder guys shoots last and does not use the device till after the guys shooting for a score shoot, no problem. But I have seen guys shooting ranges and then say man I can t believe that is 32yrds....I cant blieve I can miss that bad at 35 yrds...etc... when the other 3 guys havent shot.... So if you are gonna take it serious it will get to you. Go to the larger shoots ASA that do not allow those of any kind...


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## BADARCHERMAN (Jan 5, 2005)

If a shooter or group is going to cheat, then there is very little you can do about it. We shoot local shoots for practice only, so it really does not matter. If you're trying to win local shoots, good luck, you'll get pencil whipped every time!


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## shootspots (Oct 22, 2003)

Why do 3D shooters fill the need to cheat?


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## BAArcher (Feb 5, 2004)

shootspots said:


> Why do 3D shooters fill the need to cheat?[/
> 
> So it's just 3D shooters?


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

I thought the R100 was a fun type shoot and they didn't keep scores anyway? At least that was they way it was run when I shot one back in like 05....


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

IF you or anyone else in your group is turning in cards for an event then no rangefinders period. Even if you are ranging after the shots at a specific target it helps you at the next target, recalibrates you mental rangefinder. If I'm shooting for a score I shoot the round without a rangefinder, then ask the club if I can walk the course again with rangefinder and no bow. If I bring a rangefinder and a bow, me and everyone in my group don't turn in a card, we also don't talk loudly about the ranges to help others that may be. Don't want to even look like a cheater period


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## mathewdbl_lung (Mar 17, 2008)

I have shot one full R100 and half of another (due to rain) they are fun but sometimes they can take a VERY long time to shoot!

EXACT same problems at the ones I attended. Not just rangfinders, people could walk 10 YARDS closer on every target!!! and still turn in there card. 

It just breaks down that the R100 is a "for fun only" shoot because no rules are enforced. When I shot them there was only little pins to win anyway. 1 pin for shooting over 1000 and a colored pin for what place you got. I received my 1000 pin but never did get my second place pin (they were out). Said they were going to mail it but never did. 

I saw another comment on a similar thead recently saying a shooter has still not received his dozen arrows from winning one of the side challanges. That's his comment but I believe him after the ones I've attended.

YOU DO GET TO SHOOT SOME WILD TARGETS THOUGH! I tell everyone to go to at least one....
:wink:


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

but you are always bashing known yardage classes and you carry a rangefinder onto the range.,


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

I can't stand cheaters what so ever. I think that they might need to crack down a little better on setting the rules out so everyone knows them and to actually enforce them.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

BAArcher said:


> So it's just 3D shooters?


Exactly what other forms of archery is it possible to cheat in?

-Grant


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## Hallsway (Jan 16, 2009)

*Local shoots just to shoot and not turn in cards *- OK to range after shots to verify and correct things (practice)
*Competition*- No range finders on me at all, not even in the chair. I have seen people having range finders in chairs at National Tournaments, I never saw them used, but I saw them. That is risky if you ask me.


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## MarineSTC (Dec 5, 2008)

The one I went to last year we had a great time. Didn't pick up on much cheating but I am sure it was going on. However I did get hosed out of winning a new bow at the steel challange. Had one guy beat me by one point, and I had varified this as he was shooting in my group. Well at the end when the guy that was running the shoot started calling out the winners, he said so and so won 1st place for the bow, called me second, and another guy third along with the prizes that we won. After that was said the guy that won first place said to the guy running the shoot, well I guess that means I need to go register and pay for the shoot. This was about 5:30 pm and it states in the rules that you have to be registered by 1 or 2 pm (can't remember which one it was). Someone in the crowd yelled default, the guy running the shoot said that it was then looked at me like he was going to say that I was getting the bow. There was someone else say that the guy was there to sign in but no one was at the table. Long story short he still ended up getting the bow, and found out that he was a shop owner at that. Thought that was kinda shady, but I am happy with my 18-1 target. Still shooting at it where that Darton bow would have been up for sale as soon as I got home.


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## RLtarget (Dec 6, 2008)

"At least 75% of the groups we saw shoot were blatently using rangefinders and talking about yardages within the group"

You are calling alot of good people "cheaters" 75% of all groups? I don't think so, there were a few groups I'll give you that. I can't stand a cheater. 

Ric L


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Seems 75 % is a high number.. here in canada no range finders allowed on courses AT ALL PERIOD ends the problem clean clear and simple.. caught with one your out.. cards destroyed.. and you are dq`d simple rule none on course period..and in a big shoot there should be some one driving around on a atv for more than one reason.. safety first .. and judging second.. then if you have a problem you report it as it happens not at end of tournament..


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## sdavis (Aug 22, 2005)

i shoot alot of 3d and occasionally on our clubs 3d practice course i bring a buddy and he doesnt know the yardage so i tell him the rest of the group will shoot first and then he can range the target and shoot it helps him get more confidence so he can use during deer season and hopefully bag a big buck. but never when we are competeing that sucks sorry about your bad experience glad your son placed though


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## MKNOX (Jul 8, 2007)

RLtarget said:


> "At least 75% of the groups we saw shoot were blatently using rangefinders and talking about yardages within the group"
> 
> You are calling alot of good people "cheaters" 75% of all groups? I don't think so, there were a few groups I'll give you that. I can't stand a cheater.
> 
> Ric L


I said 75% of the groups "We saw shoot" I only saw the shooters on the course we were shooting and I am pretty confident in that number!!


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## SARASR (Oct 30, 2009)

I have used a rangefinder on the 3-d course usually closer to hunting season. But I tell the range official before hand and do not enter my score card.


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## Wes_C7 (Feb 24, 2010)

The R-100 that I shot a few years ago allowed range finders...the only thing you got for your score was a little pin if you busted 1000 points. The door prizes were the main attraction. Things could have changed, idk.


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## Bryce MN (Feb 16, 2012)

People are typically irritated enough at me for shooting hunter class with a top of the line setup. It's legal, but most of the guys in that class don't put that kind of $ into their gear. For that reason, I leave my range finder in my case. I am glad that no one is cheating as far as I know where I go. I will pay closer attention to this at the R100 when I go this year.


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## DDULEY (Nov 28, 2007)

It is best to never have a range finder on a range unless it is a known distance match and it has been OKd by the club. Come on guys we all know what happens as soon as a range finder is pulled out and someone sees it! The trouble starts, leave them in your car or truck you can practice with them somewhere else. This is a great sport lets keep it that way or one day we will wake up and it will be gone and we will wonder what happened.


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## casterpollox (Apr 7, 2010)

pencil whiping can be more of a problem in my opinion. Changing an 8 to a 10 on the scorecard is what gets my blood boiling.


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## The Fog (Oct 31, 2006)

Ego trumps honor unfortunate for those who try to play by the rules.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

DDULEY said:


> It is best to never have a range finder on a range unless it is a known distance match and it has been OKd by the club. Come on guys we all know what happens as soon as a range finder is pulled out and someone sees it! The trouble starts, leave them in your car or truck you can practice with them somewhere else. This is a great sport lets keep it that way or one day we will wake up and it will be gone and we will wonder what happened.


I agree with this, there are too many people calling others cheaters. Why give them another reason? Someone has a great day and turns in a higher than normal score... people say he cheated. Always shoots with the same group of friends and turns in a great score.... cheater!! again.
Like others have said. If you mis judged your yardage you have a pretty good idea what the yardage was when you see where your arrow hit. 
Allowing rangefinders on the course, (even if only to range AFTER the shot) leaves the door open to call someone a cheater.
This in turn turns off a lot of honest shooters and they quit going to that club that allows this behavior to continue.

I would make all the Known shooters shoot together in groups and DO NOT Allow rangefinders in any other groups. Yes, our club will have a known class.
I also like to see shooters groups get mixed up or at least put a new shooter with a group of friends. Especially if they always place in the top and always shoot with the same people. Keep them honest.


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## OHIOARCHER36 (Oct 12, 2010)

this goes on everywhere all the time . The only thing you can do is stay true to yourself , the only one there cheatin is there self . kinda like bowhuntin whitetails , i shot a big one , but they wont say i poached it .


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## BAArcher (Feb 5, 2004)

grantmac said:


> Exactly what other forms of archery is it possible to cheat in?
> 
> -Grant


How about NFAA Field if groups are not busted up, anything that requires human score keeping. Shoot against yourself and enjoy the R100 with your family. I am going tomorrow with a family group, if those cute little 8 year old twins want some help to have fun.....you bet they will get it!!


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## 12-RING SHOOTER (Jul 27, 2010)

Last year in Sparta R100 after the shoot sunday a kid from my class (youth) was bragging he shot like 86 up on the American side, the kid couldnt even hit the hanging tennis balls at 20 yards, he had a Rangefinder on his side, even with the Rangefinder I doubt he could of shot that high, funny thing was I beat the kids score on the African side think I shot 43 up or something like that from the far stake....I would of love to shoot the course with this kid next year.....so if your seeing this i need a partner for next summer lol!!


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I don't think you should be ranging the targets after shooting them. It lets you correct your judging and everyone else does not have that opportunity.


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