# Pros: trigger vs hinge



## ncsurveyor (May 12, 2009)

I've noticed a lot of pros lately shooting and winning with trigger releases compared to hinge releases. One example is Levi winning Fort Benning this weekend with a thumb, which I'm including in the definition of trigger. I've spent two years learning to shoot a hinge and I'm still learning. I'm just curious why these guys choose a trigger over a hinge, especially in shootoff situations. There has to be a reason and I think it's because a trigger is more consistent as long as the dreaded TP doesn't rear its head. Other examples are Cara Fernandez shooting a trigger, kailey Johnston shoots a thumb, Dan McCarthy shoots a thumb, Gillingham, and many of the senior pros. What do you guys think the reason is?m this seems very intriguing to me...


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

And Mike Schloesser who set the indoor world cup record, won indoor nationals, and Vegas last year. 

I switch back and forth. I shot a thumb trigger all indoor season this year, and shot great with it. After shooting a few times outdoors I decided I needed to slow down my shot a little, so I got my hinge out and I'm shooting very good with it right now. I think I shoot better outdoors with a hinge, and better indoors with a button.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

I started with a hinge to get myself to relax on the back end. Switched to a thumb trigger and picked up 5-7 x's. I might try a hinge again indoors but outdoors I will shoot a thumb as to help my shot in windy conditions. 


.02


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

there's no reason a thumb trigger can't be shot the exact same a hinge can be shot, whether your method is some sort of hand manipulation or you use back tension as your engine.


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## ncsurveyor (May 12, 2009)

It just amazes me that they have the mental fortitude to not punch the trigger when thousands of dollars are on the line. Why would they ever shoot a hinge if they can control a trigger that well? As for myself, I can shoot my trigger much better than my hinge, and I use back tension to fire both, but when the pressure is on, it's very hard for me not to command the shot and go ahead and touch the trigger off. That's why Ive been learning a hinge.


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

i often wonder the same question..hinge or trigger? i guess thats why there called pros.being able to shoot both very well.i personally dont think that there is wrong between the to.and if so it determined by shooting style.myself i shoot a hinge.been commited to it for over a year now and pleased.at times i want to go back to trigger(thumbstyle) but i dont in fear of target panic re-surfacing again.i e shot the best i have ever shot in my lifetime with w hinge


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that's why we (as "archers", professional or not) work to install the release execution into our sub conscious process. there, there is only one set of commands that runs the execution, when properly installed. when we know it's there to run the show reliably, we don't have to get caught up in that trap of thinking about running the release.
it's simply just a bit more of understanding that basic fundamental element of a good shot, that which so many people seem to have such a problem with.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

If a difference between a thumb release and hinge, look to the head of the hinge. The head stays with the string and the handle moves. Not so with a thumb release. Move the handle, move the hook. Granted, minimal travel, but travel nonetheless. Still, those who manipulate a hinge to fire learn so what not a thumb release? Slowly as in slowly pull on a thumb release and thumb clinches. Same with "full" back tension, it must come slowly, not forced, you wait it out. Rhomboid muscles are independent. John Dudley had this years back, right handers, the "right back half of the back." Using just the right side I can rip a shot...results are of the nature of what you get. So some sight adjustment and learning needs be.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I've shot a thumb since early 90's. For me a thumb is more consistantly going off bc it is not dependant on elbow or hand positions. Although that gives you false security bc those positions are important and a hinge lets you know your not consistantly. Im mostly a 3d shooter so for me I like the thumb trigger better bc of hills etc.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I also like to hunt with same release bc I just get on deer and pull like I am pulling thru and if I see I have to make it go I just hit the thumb and I can for thst one shot make it go on command and hit the same spot. Its only one shot out of thousands of shots shot correctly and I practice that shot before hunting season. I'd say im about 50/50 in hunting situations pulling thru vs command shooting. I would not recommend this for everyone one tho I've been shooting back tension for 20 plus years.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

everybody is different there.
if your release execution is well isolated, hills and bad footing make no difference.
regardless of footing and up or down shots, I will always prefer to use my hinge, because my rhomboid contraction is completely isolated from what the rest of my body is doing.
I think that's a major element in being able to deliver a good accurate shot, no matter the footing or shot elevation, or position of your body.
a good foundation is necessary,.... of course,.... you can't deliver without being grounded in your footing,....that is "solidly placed", but just because your footing is out of position and you're not trying to balance, like on a "teeter-totter", or something, it should not make a difference if the release function is based on the upper half of your body. it's whole reason we are taught to bend at the waist for uphill and downhill shots.....to keep the upper half of the body in the right posture, to make the release execution run like it is in position. it allows decent rhomboidal back tension to be instrumented, no matter what the rest of your body is doing. 
in that condition, it doesn't matter that the release you use, is a hinge or not.
I think a lot of what causes problems in this respect, is that it is so common to be over bowed, that people need to utilize too much of their bodies stability, just to draw the bow. that condition has become so prevalent, that it has actually developed an acceptance, that if you get outside the box of relatively standard stance, all you stability goes into getting the bow back. 
I've heard so many guys complain about, "what's with all the crazy shot positions", as they walk off the end of a 3d course.


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## WhitetailAce (May 16, 2012)

There are a hundred different answers to the question why someone would use a hinge vs. a trigger release. The best answer is because “Archery is about what works.”



ncsurveyor said:


> It just amazes me that they have the mental fortitude to not punch the trigger when thousands of dollars are on the line. Why would they ever shoot a hinge if they can control a trigger that well? As for myself, I can shoot my trigger much better than my hinge, and I use back tension to fire both, but when the pressure is on, it's very hard for me not to command the shot and go ahead and touch the trigger off. That's why Ive been learning a hinge.


Only the winners have the metal fortitude to execute a shot when the pressure is on.

Sunday round of Indoor Nationals this past year for me is a perfect example of it. I have never shot a 300 at Nationals. Sunday I was clean through 11 ends, but as soon as that whistle blew for the final end I became a nervous wreck. Even though I was not shooting for a top placing or to win money to me I was shooting for much more. For me it was pride, and accomplishment. But my first two ends of the twelfth end I developed the worst case of TP and punched the first two arrows shooting two fours. The next three arrows I shot inside out.

You never hear of the losers who could not handle the pressure.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

i hunt with hinge also, Stoz. 
i have for all the years that I've been shooting a bow. in fact when i use one of my thumb buttons, i really feel compromised. no matter the shot or the draw weight, i will always prefer my hinge.
you hear so many guys ask, "how can you hunt with a hinge, you don't have the time it takes to get the shot off, or you're never in the right position to run your release". i have never had a situation where there wasn't enough time, or i wasn't able to run the hinge, in all my years hunting. you just have to pick the shot right.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

For a guy like me who picked hinges 4 years ago to concentrate on and master I chose to not compare the two, I just concentrated on learning the art of shooting a hinge and becoming proficient with it and after 4 years of shooting with them I am there finally. Now do I own a thumb trigger? Yes, tru ball sent me a collection of their thumb triggers and I have shot them a little and just like everyone suggested I use the same basic methods to fire them and I shoot really good with them.

The difference between me a above average amateur shooter and guys like Levi and Tim is that they are the best in the world and have shot for decades which allows them to make changes as the years go by and shoot at the same high level. I think more than likely for them that shooting the tens of thousands of arrows per year that changing from one release to another from time to time makes sense to shock the system a little and keep things fresh.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I will remind you guys that a real hinge shooter can pick up a thumb trigger without shooting one for months or years and shoot it right now with no training where a person that is a thumb trigger shooter can't just pick up a hinge and go shoot a tournament and shoot at the same level. Hinge shooting is more of a feel that has to be dialed in over time learning how to draw perfectly and coming to the wall exactly the same every shot where with a thumb trigger it is all about not punching the trigger.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

it's really not about being a "hinge shooter", as much as have good rhomboid based, back tension and a well developed release execution. the fact that one is using a hinge,... if the fore-mentioned elements are in place,.... has nothing to do specifically, with what release is being used. the two prerequisite elements are easily adaptable to any release there is, if they exist in your shot process in a solidly reliable form.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Padgett said:


> I will remind you guys that a real hinge shooter can pick up a thumb trigger without shooting one for months or years and shoot it right now with no training where a person that is a thumb trigger shooter can't just pick up a hinge and go shoot a tournament and shoot at the same level. Hinge shooting is more of a feel that has to be dialed in over time learning how to draw perfectly and coming to the wall exactly the same every shot where with a thumb trigger it is all about not punching the trigger.


I respectfully disagree. I think many can go back and forth. and what is your definition of a "real" hinge shooter? I for one have been shooting a hinge for 8+ years and haven't shot 100 shots with a thumb. Not intending to start an argument just giving my opinion.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I can jump and forth at will, as well. I've been shooting a hinge for all my shooting since I was about 19....i'm 60 now. 
the definition iof a "hinge shooter", is a guy that has a hinge in his hand at the moment.....what is he when he doesn't have the hinge in his hand ?.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

ncsurveyor said:


> I've noticed a lot of pros lately shooting and winning with trigger releases compared to hinge releases. One example is Levi winning Fort Benning this weekend with a thumb, which I'm including in the definition of trigger. I've spent two years learning to shoot a hinge and I'm still learning. I'm just curious why these guys choose a trigger over a hinge, especially in shootoff situations. There has to be a reason and I think it's because a trigger is more consistent as long as the dreaded TP doesn't rear its head. Other examples are Cara Fernandez shooting a trigger, kailey Johnston shoots a thumb, Dan McCarthy shoots a thumb, Gillingham, and many of the senior pros. What do you guys think the reason is?m this seems very intriguing to me...


I think alot of the pros go back and forth with a thumb and a hinge because it allows them to not get used to just one release. I dont care what release you shoot, thumb, back tension, or index finger sooner or later you get used to when it goes off. either you adjust the release and make it "hotter" or "colder" if it has the ability to or just switch a release for a few weeks. Levi in particular has said that he goes back and forth with a thumb and back tension for that exact reason, he gets used to that one release and its no longer a suprise release. 

Dan McCarthy has a great video on bowjunky about how he shoots his release with back tension, this video also has Chance talking about how he shoots his longhorn. I have never heard or seen chance shoot anything other than a longhorn. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1hpKacIRI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOoa-dYjl18

With guys that go back and forth between a hinge and a thumb usually execute the shot similarly its just a new feel and something they have to be cautious with and focus on the shot execution, when a shooter get too comfortable with a release thats when the stop focusing on the shot execution and focusing on when the release is going to go off.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I didn't say you can't go back and forth, and in fact I am saying that you can totally do just that. What I am saying is that i have never met a proficient thumb trigger guy that has never shot a hing be able to pick up a hinge and just shoot a tournament with one at basically the same level that he normally shoots. I know more than one hinge shooter that can go months without even touching a thumb trigger and pick up one and shoot it perfect from the first shot.

So yes if you have spent the time with a hinge and became proficient I believe you can totally shoot either one of them, I just don't see it the other way around.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Then again, My pro indoor buddy Sam Woltius got a new backspin out of the plastic package one night and it was set on the click setting. At the time he had been a smooth moon guy for quite some time and without changing the speed at all I watched him shoot a 60x with it and he won a known 50 asa with it in the same setting about a week later and then won a car at yankton. So there are some people that function slightly different than most of us.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I can shoot a hinge I just don't feel as consistant and comfortable. I shoot with nochance and he is just the opposite he shoots better with a hinge. I believe if I spent as much time with a hinge I could be as good but why bother if I can be in the top of my class every year and not have any issues with punching then my efforts are better put into perfecting my thumb technique. I personally think hinges are mostly for guys who can't stop punching a trigger. Not knocking them just I have found that to be mostly true.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I like shooting a hinge bc it gets me comfortable with movement on the back end and makes the thumb feel effortless.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

if youhave a good release execution, and now the in's and out's of using a click on your release, you can switch back and forth between click and smooth with little difficulty. all you have to do is recognize and acknowledge it is there and modify your shot process to accommodate the click.
the most common problem people have, that have problems with a click is that they start their hard aim before the click, not acknowledging that they have to separate the process at the point in their shot, where they would start their hard aim. the purpose of the click, is to establish a uniform point, at which the final approach to the shot breaking, starts from the click.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

ncsurveyor said:


> I've noticed a lot of pros lately shooting and winning with trigger releases compared to hinge releases.............What do you guys think the reason is?m this seems very intriguing to me...


What you are noticing is as much you as anything. It's always been that/this way. And to be very candid it makes no difference to most top level shooters. Their form/shot basics are all down pat and they can change releases from shot to shot without any difficulty. Again, it makes no difference, it's a triggering device and really has little (if anything) to do with where the arrow lands.


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## rn3 (Jan 4, 2008)

Lazarus said:


> What you are noticing is as much you as anything. It's always been that/this way. And to be very candid it makes no difference to most top level shooters. Their form/shot basics are all down pat and they can change releases from shot to shot without any difficulty. Again, it makes no difference, it's a triggering device and really has little (if anything) to do with where the arrow lands.


Exactly,they would use their fingers if the could get as clean of a release.


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## brad91x (Jul 12, 2013)

I'm far from a pro...I've tried a hinge and a thumb trigger and when using a hinge if I don't get the shot off in fast enough I get shaky and part of the. Reason is I'm a shaky person so I find myself going back to my shoot off


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## MiniJCW (Apr 27, 2014)

brad91x said:


> I'm far from a pro...I've tried a hinge and a thumb trigger and when using a hinge if I don't get the shot off in fast enough I get shaky and part of the. Reason is I'm a shaky person so I find myself going back to my shoot off


I hear you brad i have been shooting a hinge for a couple of years, the shakes come on strong with a hinge. I have had a lot of trouble with a hinge in that i cannot trust my shot because of the shakes, it is almost like a mental block i cannot seem to pull through the hinge unless I actually think about doing it. Tried manipulating, relaxing index finger, stretching out release hand, squeezing little finger, rotating elbow etc; nothing really stuck for me and all versions became a conscious effort to get the shot off.

I have only in the last week had a play with a Stan SX2 and the release is very relaxing to use the shakes have almost gone. I can now begin to stare down the X and the release just works somehow i dont really know how it fires i just start pulling and bang the arrow is gone. 144 arrow rounds are a breeze with the thumb trigger i found on the weekend, it is nowhere near the marathon effort i was going through with a hinge, and a lot less frustration too.


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## pennbc07 (Apr 9, 2010)

I'm probably the up comer of the group but to me it boils down to what style seems to fit you whether its a index, thumb or hinge. I grew up shooting a index, command shooting and got target panic, tried thumb releases didn't feel comfortable at all, then tried a hinge and never looked back. Since that time my shot process has totally changed to the point of relax,focus, and poof off it goes(also hunt with a hinge). In my experience executing back tension allows for the most accurate shots. The problem I have is when I am under stress for the important shots(can't relax like normal) and weather conditions(windy conditions).

Too answer your question, every Pro is different. Ex. Levi may have won with a thumb at Ft. Benning, but I watched him win Metropolis with a hinge last year. The only Pro I know of that commands the shots consistently is Tim(aka the Hammer). But ultimately I think most Pros choose a release that they feel the most confident in the stressful situations.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

SonnyThomas said:


> If a difference between a thumb release and hinge, look to the head of the hinge. The head stays with the string and the handle moves. Not so with a thumb release. Move the handle, move the hook. Granted, minimal travel, but travel nonetheless. Still, those who manipulate a hinge to fire learn so *why* not a thumb release? Slowly as in slowly pull on a thumb release and thumb clinches. Same with "full" back tension, it must come slowly, not forced, you wait it out. Rhomboid muscles are independent. John Dudley had this years back, right handers, the "right back half of the back." Using just the right side I can rip a shot...results are of the nature of what you get. So some sight adjustment and learning needs be.


Bold - correction.
.
.
For the question, what type "release" Pros use hasn't really changed. People get to watching and seeing a Pro using index/thumb/hinge release. The next you know they notice others and their releases. Some conditions for some people require a different release. Windy conditions aren't friendly for "wait out" release execution. I forget who, but Texas or Oklahoma. Wind howling and a Pro was noted for switching from a hinge to a thumb release.


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## Donjr721 (Mar 25, 2013)

I've been shooting a hinge now for two years. Been a trigger shooter for twenty plus. I shot hinge great at our states indoor districts last year, struggled a little with hinge at sectionals. I used my trigger at state indoor, I shot my personal best, won first place flight 1. In louisville at indoor nationals I shot my trigger, shot a new personal best. I've been using hinge at indoor league the past several weeks, used trigger a few times, but punching came back, so right now I'm comfortable with my hinge. 

Gotta use what is working for you at that particular time. The hinge has made me a much better shooter, it makes me stay in the shot, to me it's maintaining the tension in my back and not creeping. When I'm able to shoot my trigger this way, the trigger makes me pinpoint accurate. If I creep or lose some of my back tension, forget about it. 

I'm starting my 7 year old daughter out with trigger and a hinge, mainly for her to understand the concept of staying in the shot with back tension, and pulling through. She's getting it.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Donjr721, ever so often I practice with my hinges to keep me "honest" with my thumb releases.


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## Tincup61 (Oct 9, 2012)

SonnyThomas said:


> Bold - correction.
> .
> .
> For the question, what type "release" Pros use hasn't really changed. People get to watching and seeing a Pro using index/thumb/hinge release. The next you know they notice others and their releases. Some conditions for some people require a different release. Windy conditions aren't friendly for "wait out" release execution. I forget who, but Texas or Oklahoma. Wind howling and a Pro was noted for switching from a hinge to a thumb release.


 I prefer to shoot a hinge but have swapped several times to trigger on courses that were in fields when the winds really got to going. I believe it's all personal preference. I'm just the opposite of one of the posts above. I get the shakes with a thumb but not my hinge, so bad that I sold my thumb and have my index I use for hunting in my release bag for those windy days.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I just read through this thread again and I am really not happy with the way I answered the question the op asked, I tried to make a point and I failed. I think I would have been better off to say that they are both proven to win at the highest level in all events and have done so many times. The key is to commit to the one you favor and do the quality training that will allow you to shoot at or near your potential.


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

All a release has to do is let go of the string without disturbing the sight picture and do this consistently. So the difference is the archer and how he mentally handles each release with anticipation.


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## Tincup61 (Oct 9, 2012)

Padgett said:


> I just read through this thread again and I am really not happy with the way I answered the question the op asked, I tried to make a point and I failed. I think I would have been better off to say that they are both proven to win at the highest level in all events and have done so many times. The key is to commit to the one you favor and do the quality training that will allow you to shoot at or near your potential.


Well said. Another reason I sold my thumb was to force me to the hinge. If I had a bad day with the hinge I would go back to the thumb for a few days rather than work through the problem like my coach was telling me to do.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Padgett said:


> I just read through this thread again and I am really not happy with the way I answered the question the op asked, I tried to make a point and I failed. I think I would have been better off to say that they are both proven to win at the highest level in all events and have done so many times. The key is to commit to the one you favor and do the quality training that will allow you to shoot at or near your potential.





Tincup61 said:


> Well said. Another reason I sold my thumb was to force me to the hinge. If I had a bad day with the hinge I would go back to the thumb for a few days rather than work through the problem like my coach was telling me to do.


Randy Ulmer once penned that when going with a hinge to put away all other release aids... He also noted once he has a drawer full of releases


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Padgett said:


> I just read through this thread again and I am really not happy with the way I answered the question the op asked, I tried to make a point and I failed. I think I would have been better off to say that they are both proven to win at the highest level in all events and have done so many times. The key is to commit to the one you favor and do the quality training that will allow you to shoot at or near your potential.





Tincup61 said:


> Well said. Another reason I sold my thumb was to force me to the hinge. If I had a bad day with the hinge I would go back to the thumb for a few days rather than work through the problem like my coach was telling me to do.


Randy Ulmer once penned that when going with a hinge to put away all other release aids... He also noted once he has a drawer full of releases


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