# ASA Texas 1178 shooters not good !



## watermedic23 (Aug 23, 2006)

That is just below the average for the last 3 or 4 years. When you figure in the economy, its not too bad in my opinion.

Chuck


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## blazenarrow (Feb 6, 2009)

I think if they start centralizing these shoots there will be a better turnout.. I would love to attend ever one of these shoots, but that means I need to jump in plane ever time.


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## cabotvt (Jul 23, 2007)

My 2 cents is Texas is not a good spot and a long drive for the majority of shooters out of the east and mid west states.


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## mw31 (Apr 23, 2007)

cabotvt said:


> My 2 cents is Texas is not a good spot and a long drive for the majority of shooters out of the east and mid west states.


Geographically I agree. But as someone who has been to the Paris proam twice I can say if I were to only travel to one shoot a year this would definatly be the one, the people and the town in general are great!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

It is just not promoted or advertised enough through major outlets I beleive. There are more than 2000 shooters in 4 hours of driving distance from the Texas shoot. Attendance should not be this low for any shoot.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, how many of the ASA or IBO venues could actually handle 5000 archers?


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## BG33 (Dec 5, 2008)

No way the ones I have been to could handle 5000 people. Texas is a little out of the way compared to the other ASA locations. I'm pretty sure that Florida was the highest attendance in a while for an ASA shoot. Seems like it was around 1400, so 1100 is not to bad.


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## ky hammer (Jan 7, 2003)

well there are very few events in the history of archery that has had 2000 or more shooters. the ranges would not hold much more than what we have now. if we did get 2000 it would take some major planning to keep it moving.


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## BG33 (Dec 5, 2008)

In Georgia and Florida ASA had to make adjustments on range assignments so everyone could shoot, so I'd say that many more people would prolly cause a problem. I would like to see some better promoting though. ASA shoots are even hard to find in the towns they are located in. No big signs or anything until you get 1/2 mile from the shoot.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I agree with you all, except for one thing that the Asa or ibo could not handle that many shooters. It's called adjustment and it is not rocket science. How about using some golf courses for the shoots that will hold that many shooters.


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## smfb09 (Jul 1, 2009)

BG33 said:


> In Georgia and Florida ASA had to make adjustments on range assignments so everyone could shoot, so I'd say that many more people would prolly cause a problem. I would like to see some better promoting though. ASA shoots are even hard to find in the towns they are located in. No big signs or anything until you get 1/2 mile from the shoot.



x2...


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## greimer (Feb 13, 2007)

I here from a lot of people that they just don't like to go to bigger shoots, they would rather stay at home and shoot at there local shoot. Now me I like to shoot against the better competition.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

cenochs said:


> I know you guys will say attendance is up but 1178 shooters for a national event I think the attendance is poor! There should be 5000 or more shooters at every event. Some will say this is great attendance and it is up but come on wake up and really think about it, 50 states full of archery shooters and that equals 23 from each state! These shoots are going to slowly die if some better promotion and advertising does not start to happen. The shoot was not even advertisied or promoted on Archery Talk! Just my 2 cents !



How about the 227 shooters that showed up for the Second Leg of the IBO Southern Triple Crown?


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

allxs said:


> How about the 227 shooters that showed up for the Second Leg of the IBO Southern Triple Crown?


That whole Southern Triple is ashame. I've been to regular club shoots in SE Pennsylvania with that many shooters.


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## rjharcher (Feb 1, 2008)

*Problem is*

The original OP mentioned that it (attendance) would average out to 23 from every state. The problem is you probably didn't even have anyone from Alaska or Hawii and not many at all from the western states. Sorry to say this but until th ASA starts holding shoots in more diversified locations, all over the US then it will always be more just a regionalized ecent not a true National event. I for one can not afford to fly all the way to Texas or Georgia ore back East from Alaska for a 2 day shoot. Redding is hard enough.


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## deadeyedickwc (Jan 10, 2010)

so your saying if the shoot is not held in your back yard you wont go to it!


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## tazhunter0 (Jun 21, 2006)

rjharcher said:


> The original OP mentioned that it (attendance) would average out to 23 from every state. The problem is you probably didn't even have anyone from Alaska or Hawii and not many at all from the western states. Sorry to say this but until th ASA starts holding shoots in more diversified locations, all over the US then it will always be more just a regionalized ecent not a true National event. I for one can not afford to fly all the way to Texas or Georgia ore back East from Alaska for a 2 day shoot. Redding is hard enough.


There was a truck parked in Paris at the shoot that had Alaska lic plates on it. Not sure if they drove down or just travel the circuit. 

Chris


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## la.basscat (Jan 16, 2006)

mw31 said:


> Geographically I agree. But as someone who has been to the Paris proam twice I can say if I were to only travel to one shoot a year this would definatly be the one, the people and the town in general are great!


I thought this at first too but now after 3 years in a row of the mud and wind I'll probably not go to this one again unless it's moved to later in the year. The people there are great though. Just the location is now my least favorite.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

1187 is probably more than the NJ Nets drew the last game they played.

Parking lot was pretty full yesterday at the Paris Civic Center.

I think they're running just about right the way they are now.

If you look at what it takes to put on an ASA shoot, getting all the targets on site, getting them set, cutting the lanes, tending the vendors, handling registration, and handling the complaints is a hand full when you have 1187, imagine if it was 5,000.

Just the logistics of moving, setting up, tearing down consumes a great amount of time. If you've ever worked setting up a shoot for 200 people in a single day, you can imagine what they do to put on a national shoot.

I think they do a pretty good job and if they tried to expand to a wider area the task would be pretty daunting...IMHO.

Kudos to Mike and ASA for the job they do, not just putting on the Pro Ams, but promoting the sport of archery.


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## FlyingArcher (Feb 2, 2007)

Military....



tazhunter0 said:


> There was a truck parked in Paris at the shoot that had Alaska lic plates on it. Not sure if they drove down or just travel the circuit.
> 
> Chris


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

greetings from australia
i'd be interested to know with that many shooters, which seems like a lot to me, how congested would it be on the ranges and would there be lengthy waiting times to start and long waits at each target. this would suggest 2 long slow days, but i'm not sure of the format being used. we would get a few hundred attending our nationals each november, go to 3daaa.com.au and go to scores.


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## bowhuntntxn (May 1, 2006)

*Couple of questions*

1. Why did you not come down and contribute to the shoot? Or did you?
2. Why should ASA do anything to promote themselves on this site, when they have their own, including message boards? Contrary to some beliefs, this is not the be all end all location for information and promotion. It is a great site, with a lot of useful information, and conversation, but it should not be considered a primary advertising outlet. 

The city of Paris TX and the Lamar County COC go way out of their way to put on the best shoot they possibly can. I have never seen Habitat for Humanity, a map board with pins to see where people have come from, or anything else along those lines at any other ASA national event. The weather is something that cannot be controlled, but they bust their behinds to keep everything in order, and ranges as good as they can get them.

I think the attendance was fine, and in line with the national averages, and other so called "national" organizations could learn a few things from Mike and the way his shoots are run.


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## tazhunter0 (Jun 21, 2006)

FlyingArcher said:


> Military....


Not sure. Other half seen it while we were leaving on Saturday. I do know there was alot of out-of-state plates at the hotel that had Archery related decals on them.

Chris


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah its kinda slow. Lanes are within a few yards of each other with generally 4 shooters on each target.
There are 20 targets on each range and each competitor shoots two different ranges, with one range each day. Plenty of time to visit, get acquainted with folks from across the region and discuss everything from archery to zoology. :wink:
I'm not sure how many twenty target ranges they had set up but I do know that in many instances there were classes on the ranges at 8 a.m and again at noon.
If you're in a hurry, don't bother to go to an ASA or IBO national shoot. It ain't gonna be happin' there for ya. :wink:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bowhuntntxn said:


> 1. Why did you not come down and contribute to the shoot? Or did you?
> 2. Why should ASA do anything to promote themselves on this site, when they have their own, including message boards? Contrary to some beliefs, this is not the be all end all location for information and promotion. It is a great site, with a lot of useful information, and conversation, but it should not be considered a primary advertising outlet.
> 
> The city of Paris TX and the Lamar County COC go way out of their way to put on the best shoot they possibly can. I have never seen Habitat for Humanity, a map board with pins to see where people have come from, or anything else along those lines at any other ASA national event. The weather is something that cannot be controlled, but they bust their behinds to keep everything in order, and ranges as good as they can get them.
> ...


Yep...couldn't have said it better myself! Got muddy and waded water for three days...you bet I'll be back! Heck, if I didn't want to face the elements I stick to shootin' indoors. :tongue:


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## 2-STROKE (Aug 17, 2006)

carlosii said:


> If you look at what it takes to put on an ASA shoot, getting all the targets on site, getting them set, cutting the lanes, tending the vendors, handling registration, and handling the complaints is a hand full when you have 1187, imagine if it was 5,000.
> 
> Just the logistics of moving, setting up, tearing down consumes a great amount of time. If you've ever worked setting up a shoot for 200 people in a single day, you can imagine what they do to put on a national shoot.


Im not a member of the ASA and I dont know how they run their shoots, but Im sure if they had 5,000 shooters registered for a National Event... they could find the funds to handle a shoot of that size! Im all for expanding archery, and I too would aim for 5,000 shooters. Im quite certain its a daunting task to put on an event of that size, but other sports do it? We as archers and promoters of the sport need not be complacent. It starts with us, who are devoted archers - to bring in new shooters to enjoy our sport! I know its a tough time in our economy, but I really think that archery isn't advertised enough either... and thats sad because it's an awesome sport!


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

thanks for the interesting reply stating that lanes are a few yards apart X 20 targets. our 5 ranges of 10 targets are more like 5 golf courses, we do a lot of walking and generally cant see the next target or who's shooting it until we walk to it. a game of suprises and challenge.


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## Avalon (Jul 23, 2007)

cenochs said:


> It is just not promoted or advertised enough through major outlets I beleive. There are more than 2000 shooters in 4 hours of driving distance from the Texas shoot. Attendance should not be this low for any shoot.


I'm gonna agree here. I do not know what attempts have been made by the ASA higher ups to attract major sponsors or to promote more than what they are. It seems we have become satisfied with the slow growth of the sport. 
I'd love to see some major promoters back with the ASA. I believe that more could be given back to the shooters if a Bass Pro, Cabelas, Lowes, Home Depot...etc., would be willing to hop on. 
It's not gonna happen unless someone starts hammering the promotional trail.


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## rjharcher (Feb 1, 2008)

tazhunter0 said:


> There was a truck parked in Paris at the shoot that had Alaska lic plates on it. Not sure if they drove down or just travel the circuit.
> 
> Chris


More then likely was a Military member who is stationed in texas and they are from Alaska. If they were stationed here (in Alaska) and want to receive their dividend every year they need to maintain their residency which means keeping their vehicle registared here, which they can do and live in another state when they are in the military active duty.


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

There are a lot of classes in the ASA that have seen their numbers double in the past two years...if you are an archer and shoot somewhere besides your back yard you may have heard of some shoots to attend. A lot of folks won't attend because they think they are not 'good enough' to go to a major event. All it takes is attending one event and you will be pretty much hooked. I go to see all my friends from all over the country and fling a few arrows while I am there.

We went to a local shoot Saturday that had over 100 shooters and this was on the weekend of Texas. Guarantee most of these folks don't shoot ASA, they are just backyard shooters, most of them still had quivers on their bows.

Not all archers care anything about attending a big event. I personally think the big shoots are great and are promoted within the sport very well. Archery is not exactly a spectator sport, it won't draw people to watch it, especially if you don't know anything about archery it is about like watching grass grow...

I love this sport, even though I suck at it it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on....come out and support a shoot instead of coming on a forum and saying they don't have enough support.


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## Jay-J (Apr 20, 2005)

*5000?*

I wouldn't say it was overly crowded but it was crowded enough. 5000 would have been a NIGHTMARE!!!!


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## Floridaboy (Dec 8, 2003)

Maybe ASA should start a Western a couple shoots and see what the attendance would be......You throw a shoot in Wyoming and 1178 shooters would probably the population of 2 counties...With the amount of targets and personel it takes to put on a shoot, I'm sure there would be a capacity that would make it more irritating then fun. The ASA was started in the South and has expanded some. If the shoots are placed in a geographic circle as they kinda are now....then the Classic should be put right in the middle so all would have an easier drive. Or move the Classic from north to south on alternating years. See where the shooters are coming from and plan from there.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

cabotvt said:


> My 2 cents is Texas is not a good spot and a long drive for the majority of shooters out of the east and mid west states.


That of course, is relative...


ASA people out "east" complain that Texas is too far to drive to host a shoot. The northern folks say they won't shoot ASA because it's too far, they should move it closer north...wagh...guess what? It's never going to happen.

Will there eventually be an ASA Pro/Am north of the Mason/Dixon...maybe, but the ASA caters more to the southern states...that's where their roots are, and that's just the way it is.... same as IBO, they had a presence in the south years ago and let it slip away trying to be all things to all locations... well except Texas... whole different story.

How bout the 100's of folks who drive from all over Texas(myself included) every year to the rest of the shoots, Florida, Augusta, Indiana etc.

I talked to several people who drove in to shoot Paris this weekend... and even though they drove from another State, I still traveled further...and I'm *IN* the State of Texas. When we travel East to any other shoot, it takes us 8 hours just to cross the TX/LA border for cryin out loud... and we go anyway.

It's gonna take a lot less whining and whole lot more supporting ALL of the Pro/AMs to make it grow.

It is the same at the State level here...most of the active shooters in our club, travel all over the VAST state to attend 95% of our State Federation Shoots...being the President of our club, I almost feel bound to travel and support the other clubs.... yet when our shoot rolls around, there are a few clubs who apparently can't be bothered to return the courtesy.(end rant)


And 1700-2000 is not a "low" number... trust me, 5000 shooters at any of these events would be a train wreck....we may get there eventually, but only if shooters stop whining and start driving.:darkbeer:


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

bowhuntntxn said:


> 1. Why did you not come down and contribute to the shoot? Or did you?
> 2. Why should ASA do anything to promote themselves on this site, when they have their own, including message boards? Contrary to some beliefs, this is not the be all end all location for information and promotion. It is a great site, with a lot of useful information, and conversation, but it should not be considered a primary advertising outlet.
> 
> The city of Paris TX and the Lamar County COC go way out of their way to put on the best shoot they possibly can. I have never seen Habitat for Humanity, a map board with pins to see where people have come from, or anything else along those lines at any other ASA national event. The weather is something that cannot be controlled, but they bust their behinds to keep everything in order, and ranges as good as they can get them.
> ...


^ this


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

deadeyedickwc said:


> so your saying if the shoot is not held in your back yard you wont go to it!


I caught that too. :wink:


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## Ohio_3Der (Jul 19, 2002)

If you called this shoot's attendance an even 1000 shooters, and you're thinking about going to five times that at 5000, the current ASA system just won't work. Let's say that the new shooters come in exactly the same class ratios as exist now. So, instead of the 132 in BH Novice in Texas, you'd have 660. Instead of 115 in Hunter, you'd have 575 shooters. If everyone shoots the same range, all ranges would need to go split like the current condition in only a few of the classes now. Hunter, Bow Novice, and Open C already do this. Basically half shoot on A while the other half shoots B and vice versa. Well, if you do that, you have 40 spots to put groups of shooters. If you have 575 Hunters or 660 Bow Novice's, you'd need groups of 14 or 15 shooters on the Hunter ranges and groups of 16 or 17 shooters in Bow Novice. Not to mention the additional space, lanes, and ranges you'd have to install at the venue's grounds. 

In order for that to work, with 5000 shooters, you'd have to change the game as we know it. There are a few options. One, you could split the field into several groups, three in my examples above, so you come back down to 4-5 shooters per group. But, this system would have shooters in the same class shooting on different ranges and at the end compete against each other. This just doesn't work with the sport where it's just not easily replicated from one course to another. Two, you could make even more classes, and maybe split them up based on a handicap or experience level. This could work to make smaller groups inside the 5000 shooters, but at what point does extra classes just dilute the competition? Three, you could throw out the rules as we know them and shoot with groups of 15 or more (Redding already does that). 

So, before we see attendance figures in the 5000 range, some work needs to be done in order to accomadate our sport as we know it today. 

I must say, however, that the IBO could handle these kind of numbers. All they would need to do is add an additional amount of days to get people through since they use a trickle start and not a shotgun start. 400+ shooters on a single course inside of a single class has happened with some regularity in the IBO in years past. I just glanced at the ibo scores, went back as far as I could, and clicked on MBO in 2002 and seen 444 shooters. 444 shooters in an ASA class would be Mike Tyrell's (is that his name?) worst nightmare in the current system. ha ha


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## Encore88 (Jul 29, 2008)

la.basscat said:


> I thought this at first too but now after 3 years in a row of the mud and wind I'll probably not go to this one again unless it's moved to later in the year. The people there are great though. Just the location is now my least favorite.


My thoughts exactly! Nice town, grounds ,etc. But early spring is not the time to be in TX. It's disappointing to drive 9 1/2 hours and have to shoot in those conditions. I don't believe we'll be back unless it's moved to later in the season. I'll take scorching heat above wind and mud anyday.


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## MoBuzzCut (Aug 22, 2007)

rjharcher said:


> More then likely was a Military member who is stationed in texas and they are from Alaska. If they were stationed here (in Alaska) and want to receive their dividend every year they need to maintain their residency which means keeping their vehicle registared here, which they can do and live in another state when they are in the military active duty.


If it was a red truck i now the truck drove down from Missouri as it passed me on the way down to Paris and on the way back home to Missouri


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## rs3711 (May 1, 2008)

Be careful what you wish for. How many people passed out this past weekend from the mud and wind? How many were taken to the hospital? Heat and humidity can have VERY adverse affects on people, especially the more mature shooters. Yes, it was windy and muddy. But, it was windy and muddy for every shooter.


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## Bowtech54 (Sep 20, 2006)

I hope I don't offend anyone but we as archers need to support our great sport. I love to see young folks involved in this sport even if it means me sarcificing my time. I agree our current economy is bad and even worst in certain areas of the country but we can work thorough these times if we work as a team. 1178..........pretty good! Now for helping out archers with other egagements or comitments.........ASA has always tried to help the archer if possible........you just need to give them a chance. I personally think the ASA is a great organizations that attempts to cater to the archer. IBO is a little different.........As far as attendance records, to the best of my memory, the IBO holds that record at a World Shoot in Flatwoods, West Virginia.....2000+++++++. Now the travel.....yes it can eat up vacation time.......I approach each shoot as a vacation. What can I do to make the family involved and wanting to participate or go with me. All I can say is invite a friend and bring them to Agusta. God Bless.......


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## archery3d247 (Mar 8, 2008)

Who all on here remembers the asa shoot in Pa. It was up north in IBO country and the ASA has not been back why? Low low numbers of shooters IBO even had a big local shoot the same weekend as the Pa shoot just around the corner from the ASA event. Up north is just not work....Just my 2 cents worth..:wink:


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## rjharcher (Feb 1, 2008)

MoBuzzCut said:


> If it was a red truck i now the truck drove down from Missouri as it passed me on the way down to Paris and on the way back home to Missouri


Probably stationed at Fort Lenoardword (sp).


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## yduncan (Aug 2, 2008)

I had a great time in Paris and I really like their setup and facility's, maybe the weather will cooperate next year. 
Everyone needs to start bringing a kid to these events if you want them to grow, only 19 kids in the youth boys class, 3 in the youth girls. We can do better than that.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Ohio_3Der- If the IBO had 5000 shooters at one of their events they would have to add several more days of shooting and would have to make every range a 20 target range. I have attended several IBO NTC events that took 6 plus hours to shoot 20 targets and that is with attendance at around 1200 shooters.


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## wvlongshot (Aug 11, 2008)

*Paris TX*

We did the driving thing and had a great time with all the sights between WV and TX. But the mud and wind was expected so we were prepared for that. 
Will be back next year if able. The thing that inpressed me the most was driving three towns away to go eat and being greeted with a big smile and a thank you for coming and eating with us. The way the City of Paris and the towns surounding them treated myself and my group will be the reason for the return trips there.......And yes shooting my bow comes 2nd to feeding my belly...


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

in all acutality the Paris location is ideal....i haven't been to an ASA shoot in years until this one....but i don't imagine that too many have the ability to have a civic center for the product show? indoor bathrooms so your not having to use johny on the spots the whole weekend...actual structure just in case of inclement weather to give some security and cover. an additional plus was we were able to camp at a pretty lake within about 20 minute drive.

yes it was muddy, but it is pretty level ground so the drainage isn't good, but oh well...that's what rubber boots are for.....i'll take that location anyday...we'll be back as long as they have it


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

wvlongshot said:


> We did the driving thing and had a great time with all the sights between WV and TX. But the mud and wind was expected so we were prepared for that.
> Will be back next year if able. The thing that inpressed me the most was driving three towns away to go eat and being greeted with a big smile and a thank you for coming and eating with us. *The way the City of Paris and the towns surounding them treated myself and my group will be the reason for the return trips there*.......And yes shooting my bow comes 2nd to feeding my belly...


:thumb:


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## tntone (Aug 13, 2006)

my .02 cents..... i would like to see the asa break up into regions, north, west, southern, whatever.... i cant see driving across 3 or 4 states paying $several$ hundreds of dollars to shoot a tournament every month..... im willing to drive 5 or 7 hours but not anymore than that...... just dont see driving that far for the fun of it..... i have a family also that i spend vacations with.... i would like to go to more of them, people from up north should like this also, you drive several hours for all the asa events.... is sc and nc hosted an event i would possibly make 3 or 4 shoots a year where now i make 1 or 2.......


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## barebow52 (Nov 7, 2007)

Back in the mid 90's I shot the complete tour . Even drove to craig Colorado for one event. Good thing I was a youngun then. Couldnt stand to travel like that now


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

paris,texas--1800 miles round trip never meet people so freindly and glad for you to be in there state and in there town, well worth the trip and i will never forget it! The people down in texas do it up right and i loved every minute of it except maybe the wind the mud did not bother me at all, and they had boot washing stations this is unheard of anywhere else, if you was not there you missed something!


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## cabotvt (Jul 23, 2007)

Wonder what would happen if all the shoots were in the same spot for a whole year huummmmmmm!!!!!


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

archery3d247 said:


> Who all on here remembers the asa shoot in Pa. It was up north in IBO country and the ASA has not been back why? Low low numbers of shooters IBO even had a big local shoot the same weekend as the Pa shoot just around the corner from the ASA event. Up north is just not work....Just my 2 cents worth..:wink:


I had the trip to that shoot and it was absurb that a local club held a big shoot that same weekend.I serves them right not to have it anymore.


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