# Bare shaft tail high....cant find a fix



## bushcraftbrandon (Feb 11, 2009)

Try different tip weights. And brace height.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

I never pay any attention to tail high, low, right or left on bare shafts. I only pay attention to arrow and bare shaft group tuning. It's proved the be the quickest and easiest for me.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

I do like Jim. Tuning by impact instead of watching flight is easier, and more accurate for most people.

Start close (12-15 yards) and compare three bare shafts and three fletched shafts. Shoot all six at the same spot and see where the bare and fletched group relative to each other. The goal is to have bare and fletched grouping together from at least 20 yards but 25-30 yards is even better.

This link explains the process...http://www.acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning.html


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## Briar (Apr 22, 2004)

Thanks guys. I was just so use to the ease with which my dorado tuned i think i got spoiled


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Sometimes a slight nock high condition is hard to get rid of. By nock high I don't mean in flight I mean bare shafts grouping a couple/few inches lower than fletched at 25-30 yards and stuck in the target with the nock slightly higher than level. 

In my opinion this may even be desirable, sort of a built in consistency in arrow launch condition. It's not enough to affect broadhead flight.


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## Briar (Apr 22, 2004)

Thank you!....at this point maybe im not even good enough to be worrying about it this much


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## Gobblengrunt933 (Jul 8, 2016)

Shooting with a high elbow putting extra force on the bottom finger at anchor/ release will result in a nock high fashion.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Briar said:


> Thank you!....at this point maybe im not even good enough to be worrying about it this much


Close is usually close enough...:wink:


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## olddogrib (Apr 4, 2014)

If you tend to "heel" the bow sometimes the arrow can get a slight bounce of the shelf. If your form is good try shooting a high wrist by putting all the pressure in the web between the index finger and thumb (straighten the wrist and lift the base of the thumb off the palm swell of the grip). This may feel awkward at first, like the bow may jump out of your hand, so keep some fingertips firmly on the face or use as sling. If you nock high settles out, you may benefit from a high wrist grip.


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## Briar (Apr 22, 2004)

I am convinced this is a form issue! Good call guys. I ended up shaving down a centerest flipper and giving that a try. Instant fix. I am now getting close range great bare shaft flight with 175 grain tips....i feel though this is a band aid for my poor form, but i just dont have a coach to fix it


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Master's of the Barebow, Volumes 3 & 4 can help a lot.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

Every time I hear a guy say "bare shaft flight" I'm afraid he's looking at a boat load of frustration. Impact!!!! Impact, impacts, IMPACTS.

Bowmania


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## Briar (Apr 22, 2004)

Ill look into those videos!! Thanks


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

If you can see the arrow flying tail high, and it impacts tail high, most likely the tiller is off. The even tiller you mention is ideal for 3 fingers under, but not split finger, and it WILL throw the impact AND flight, tail high.

I shoot 3 under and tried all sorts of adjustments (one piece recurve) but not until I adjusted the tiller, did they fly perfect. On a one piece you have to sand the belly of the limb you want more tiller on, to remove some glass. On a take down, you can do it with shims under the limb bolt. If sanding, do a little at a time, till you get the tiller measurement you want. 1/8 to 1/4 positive tiller (top limb measurement) for split finger.


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

Briar said:


> I am attempting to get reasonable bare flight flight and i simply cannot adjust my nocking point to get any flight that is not tail high. Bow tiller is the same top and bottom, im using double nock set, and ive moved the nocking point all over.
> 
> Where are my other adjustments? Flight seems better if i use a smaller diameter shaft. Is that possible? Really stuck here.


You did not mention if this is a takedown, one piece, or longbow, and as for arrows do they fly well in left to right? 

Has anyone watched your release? Have you successfully bare shaft tuned a bow before? All this should be answered before you sand or adjust tiller too.


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## Greencb (Jul 8, 2008)

Like others have said its about the impact. If nock high is pushing you down on the target it can be several things. I would say tiller would be the last thing you would play with. 

1. nock point move it in small increments 
2. lower nock or tie in to support the bottom of the nock
3. torque the string- This causes a downward force upon release bouncing the arrow off the shelf. I see this quite a bit.
4. finger pressure
5. Bow hand pressure or heeling
6. Arrow Spine- to far off and you will kick the arrow up 
7. tiller- its counter intuitive


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## Briar (Apr 22, 2004)

Going to try to answer everyone's questions to assist in this process:

The bow is an ILF. IT is a tribe halo riser, with long dryad longbow limbs that are marked 46-50 lbs. IT has an 8 strand SBD string. I have not had anyone look at my form or release and I am sure it can use a ton of work. This is my 2nd bow I am trying to bare shaft tune. I shot a hoyt dorado off a center rest flipper and I am not sure if it was perfectly tuned, but it sure shot all the arrows with the same spine and same tip weight very cleanly even with the largest broadheads (zwickey deltas)

I am almost convinced this is a form and release issue. I moved the nocking point all over the place and flight was disturbingly tail high. Add a broadhead and the arrow was diving a foot at 12-15 yards. I was getting a 45 degree angle of impact at 6 or 7 yards.....it was UGLY. I changed tip weight, brace height and checked tiller.....which was the same top and bottom.

I had the extra flipper head and decided to experiment. I shaved off the "springy" part of the rest and put on a felt pad....I shot the 2013 27.5 inches with a 175 grain tip and that thing flew and impacted straight in and straight up and down at close range after several attempts. I did not move my nocking point or change anything else to make this happen. This is with my crummy form operating the bow. I then shot the bow with a correct weight zwickey and the flight looked good at close range, which is the only range I am good enough to see anything at.


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## bowproPat (Jul 11, 2002)

Quoting you...

I had the extra flipper head and decided to experiment. I shaved off the "springy" part of the rest and put on a felt pad....I shot the 2013 27.5 inches with a 175 grain tip and that thing flew and impacted straight in and straight up and down at close range after several attempts. I did not move my nocking point or change anything else to make this happen. This is with my crummy form operating the bow. I then shot the bow with a correct weight zwickey and the flight looked good at close range, which is the only range I am good enough to see anything at.

Just a thought from me. If you can see the arrow flight at short distance 10 yards or so then you are peaking and moving your head which also moves your release before the arrow is gone. Make sure you have someone else stand behind you and watch the arrow. 

My suggestion is to go to a "springy" arrow rest which will absorb some of the archer induced problems.

Good luck


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

I've run into this scenario and is when I figured out that running high FOC point weights on full length arrows didn't mix well at all.

Which is when I realized if I want to run heavy points?.....I was best off with no more than an inch of arrow hanging out front at full draw.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

Let's say your nocking was set perfect, you could still see the same results your getting because of #3 from Greencb.

I work on that every winter and by mid summer, I'm back to torqueing the string. At the exact second of release your string is moving forward AND down. This causes the rear of the shaft to kick up.

Bowmania


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