# Hoyt Horizon - Beginner's Setup



## pleasantarcher (Jun 19, 2012)

Hello everyone, I've been thinking about a Hoyt Horizon for both indoors and outdoors competition. I've read in a few threads that it lacks adjustability and is a bit on the lighter side. Are there more specific detriments to competing with this bow? My budget is tight, and I was debating whether I should get a Horizon with a ~$100+ set of limbs, or if I should hold onto the $$$ unti I can get something like a GMX. I plan to hold onto the riser for a while. I'm not sure if there's a quantifiable handicap in competition if I use such a bow. Any and all opinions or otherwise illuminating comments would be most welcome.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

You know, the more I think about it (and I have a couple students using them) the more I don't really recommend the Hoyt Horizon for beginners. 

Here's why:

You can spend 1/2 as much and get a good basic ILF riser that will get you through the first couple of years. If you stick with it, you're going to want a better riser than the Horizon pretty quickly, if not, you've spent more than you needed to just to find out.

If you're pinched for cash and you think you'll stick with the sport, buy a 2nd hand -good- riser and you'll be very happy for a long while. 

Yes, there is a quantifiable handicap in competition if you use a horizon once you figure out what you're doing.

John


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## dmassphoto (Feb 8, 2010)

Oh crap I just bought one haha


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## Blades (Jun 25, 2012)

John not to be picky, but do you mind expanding on why you dont like the Horizon? What would you say the SF or Samick risers have over them? And I thought it was more important to worry about arrows and form than the riser.

I happened to pick mine up basically unused for a good price, same with the zr330 limbs im buying. My riser is on its way so maybe ill answer my question once I get my hands on it, but as a new guy to Olympic archery, id love to hear some quantifiable things to look for in a riser (or limbs for that matter).


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

pleasant - 

The Horizon has weight/tiller adjustment and lateral limb alignment adjustments, same as any of the higher priced risers. In fact the lateral adjustments are easier to use than the older dowel type. 

It's a well designed and well made riser for new / intermediate shooters, and it won't break the bank. The factory grip is comfortable and generally well accepted (I really like it). The fact that it's light weight is a plus for most newer shooters.

On the flip side, it only has a single long rod bushing, which limits your options for multi-stab configurations and being a light, single beam riser, does have flex. The flex makes it more comfortable to shoot (less vibration than more rigid risers), but will cost you a few fps. The latter really shouldn't be a concern for new shooters.

I certainly preferred the discontinued Eclipse riser, but the Horizon is a still one of the better choices out there. 

Now, if you can find an older Hoyt riser on the used market, for the same price as a new Horizon, that could be a better choice, but given Hoyt's infinite wisdom discontinuing most of their ILF risers, a lot of people are hanging on to their older stuff. 

I generally don't recommend or even allow my students to use any of the entry level Korean risers. The grips are terrible, unless you've already drank the "BEST" Kool-aid and the limb adjustment system are, in my opinion, trickier than Hoyt's.

Viper1 out.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Blades,

I just think they are pricey for what you're getting, that's all. They aren't necessarily "bad" risers (not any straighter than risers 1/2 the price though).

Only justification I can see for putting a beginner on a Horizon is if they insist on staying in the Hoyt line. And not because of brand loyalty, mind you, but rather because they can take their grip with them as they go. 

Otherwise, there are more affordable risers that do the exact same job.

Again, a beginner riser is just that - for beginners. Once someone decides they are going to stick with the sport, they will inevitably want a better riser with limb alignment adjustments, or (gasp!) one that's reasonably straight to begin with.

Best use for a Horizon is a black-out version for hunting and 3-D 

John


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## Blades (Jun 25, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification. Like I said I did happen to get a good deal on mine, and it is the blackout, so maybe when I upgrade ill make it into a 3d rig.


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## dmassphoto (Feb 8, 2010)

I plan on using my Horizon for Field, Indoor, and some 3D whenever I can get the chance. I'm currently shooting barebow and am looking for a sight. I don't have the funds right now to pay for a $100-200 one, what's the lowest I can go that will be ok to use for a while? I have shot with sights on a compound years ago, and I do have some experience shooting trad.


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

I spent $45-$50 on the Fivics Scorpion that lasted me a while. It can rattle loose and move on you, but for the money you save, just take a moment to check the lock-bolt before each end, and you should be okay.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

If I have $40-50 to spend on a sight, I'll go to Ebay and find a good clean Check-it (the later model with the heavy windage block) or Toxonics every single time. I've put so many used Check-its and Toxonics on student's bows now that I've lost track, and they are all still working fine. Sure, they can be finicky at times, but they are bulletproof.

John


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## Zbone (Aug 4, 2012)

Ah John, "heavy windage block"..... ur killing me...8^) don't make think no more...8^)


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## Bean Burrito (Apr 20, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> Blades,
> 
> I just think they are pricey for what you're getting, that's all. They aren't necessarily "bad" risers (not any straighter than risers 1/2 the price though).
> 
> ...


What makes you think they are or aren't straighter? Did you use a surface block and indicator? Or are you taking a rough estimate?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Personal experience Bean. Not off by much, but still, not straight. At least the Horizon has a primitive alignment system to help, but it doesn't help the twist. I've had better luck with the SF risers being straight. Not that big a deal for a beginner, but how long is a new archer going to be satisfied with a riser that's not straight - esp. once they know the difference? 

So, again, these are beginner risers only, and for beginner risers, they are too expensive IMO.

John


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

Speaking of straight risers, I wonder if the carbon risers will help with that? I know they're still pricey these days, but I would imagine that eventually, as prices come down, the bang/buck ratio will improve.

I'm in a virtual boycott of Hoyt, mainly because they sell you a bow, discontinue it the next day and then talk to you like they don't have a clue when you contact them later with questions about it. The problem is more severe with their compounds, but I went to Win&Win partly because of that. They seem to make their bows for a little longer time.... 

But also because they make carbon risers that fit what I'm looking for better. But I'm wondering what you guys' thoughts might be on the carbon movement's influence on lower-cost setups? I went with an RCX-100 because it was exact match and it appears to be straight, but I'm still recovering from the financial surgery that took place when I bought it lol.... I wonder if we'll see some better composite lower-cost options?

LS


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> but I went to Win&Win partly because of that. They seem to make their bows for a little longer time....


As far as major companies go, Samick rules the roost when it comes to "don't fix it if it ain't broke"  But you're correct that W&W seems to stick with their line for a while as well. Unfortunately, Hoyt has subscribed to what I call the "Nascar" or "Nike" approach to sports marketing where they paste obnoxious graphics all over, pay for the top athletes to shoot their equipment, and change models every year. Seems to work for golf club manufacturers, and I'm sure Hoyt sells largely to the same crowd that replaces their (golf) drivers every year or two.

The ultimate "don't mess with it" brand is probably one of the italian riser manufacturers. They've been cranking out the same risers for years, for good reason!

John


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

Ok now I don't feel so bad. I thought it was just me that was getting irritated with Hoyt lol. They keep quitting making the stuff I like and replacing it with stuff I don't. Then when they started pushing the Formula series and quitting making their ILF stuff, I decided enough was enough.

BTW, speaking of the RCX-100, I think I've talked to only one or two other people who own/shoot that riser, even among other W&W aficionados. I'm wondering why it gets such a lack of love? It's the best riser I think I've ever seen, much less managed to buy. Any thoughts about that? Just curious...

LS


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

For not much more than a Horizon you could get a Moon and it WILL be straight. Plus they have awesome resale value.

Food for thought.

-Grant


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

grantmac said:


> For not much more than a Horizon you could get a Moon and it WILL be straight. Plus they have awesome resale value.
> 
> Food for thought.
> 
> -Grant


Wurd


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

My sample size for Hoyt entry level risers is 2 so take it for what it is worth. 

I have heard of twisted excels. These have no limb alignment. The one I own for my son was hand picked by a friend. Nice 21" riser and straight.

The horizon I have was purchased second hand and was dead straight as delivered and I did not need to adjust the alignment which as Viper aluded to is pretty stright forward.

I like Hoyt stuff, always have. Wish they made a barebow riser.


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> As far as major companies go, Samick rules the roost when it comes to "don't fix it if it ain't broke"  But you're correct that W&W seems to stick with their line for a while as well. Unfortunately, Hoyt has subscribed to what I call the "Nascar" or "Nike" approach to sports marketing where they paste obnoxious graphics all over, pay for the top athletes to shoot their equipment, and change models every year. Seems to work for golf club manufacturers, and I'm sure Hoyt sells largely to the same crowd that replaces their (golf) drivers every year or two.
> 
> The ultimate "don't mess with it" brand is probably one of the italian riser manufacturers. They've been cranking out the same risers for years, for good reason!
> 
> John


Good thing I'm getting a Samick Athlete riser and SF Carbon Limbs. LOL

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Wurd


fo sho homie.


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## Bean Burrito (Apr 20, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> Personal experience Bean. Not off by much, but still, not straight. At least the Horizon has a primitive alignment system to help, but it doesn't help the twist. I've had better luck with the SF risers being straight. Not that big a deal for a beginner, but how long is a new archer going to be satisfied with a riser that's not straight - esp. once they know the difference?
> 
> So, again, these are beginner risers only, and for beginner risers, they are too expensive IMO.
> 
> John


Are they visibly not straight? Not particularly great- it's not the equipment at the fault (would be made in similar processes to all the other risers, on modern CNC equipment). Clearly a lack of care (eg. shortcuts in metal treatment and poor QC) and not fantastic engineering. I guess it's simply something you'll have to live with if you choose that riser.

A beginner at our club has the SF premium, nice riser but why the absolute **** use eccentric limb bolts 

Anyway, the foolproof advice is buy a riser secondhand and buy good. I wouldn't be overly concerned about warranty on alloy risers that have been around for a bit, pretty bulletproof. I bought my 990TX/GMX combo for $650 aud and sold the limbs for $350 so I more or less got a top end riser for a handful of money over a beginner rig. I'd also trust the RCX, CXT and fibrebow in terms of carbon risers, can't comment on the others for certain (have heard good things about Kaya though)


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

LW I am intrested in you said the Horizon has a primitive limb aligment system ? with 2 grub screws to move the dowel left to right . Its not much diffrent to say my GMX which has shims to move the dowel left / right. Its a lot better than like BB said like the SF which has the stupid eccentric bolt system


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Primitive isn't necessarily "bad". It's just primitive since the grub screws that can easily strip in the soft metal of the riser if they are torqued too hard. Other risers, including the one I shoot, have the same issue. Simple and straightforward to adjust. I find the eccentric limb bolts to be pretty straightforward, and no more difficult certainly than the Hoyt brass shims (which are a nightmare to adjust, but certainly stay put once you're "there").

I've always considered the limb alignment system in the Bernardini risers to be the most advanced, followed by the new system in the PSE X-appeal risers. They move the bolt rather than the dovetail. Since most of the load is on the dovetail, why would you want that to be the part that moves?

John


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

How well do the Spigarelli's adjust? I've been looking at the Explorer II specifically.


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## Bean Burrito (Apr 20, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> Primitive isn't necessarily "bad". It's just primitive since the grub screws that can easily strip in the soft metal of the riser if they are torqued too hard. Other risers, including the one I shoot, have the same issue. Simple and straightforward to adjust. I find the eccentric limb bolts to be pretty straightforward, and no more difficult certainly than the Hoyt brass shims (which are a nightmare to adjust, but certainly stay put once you're "there").
> 
> I've always considered the limb alignment system in the Bernardini risers to be the most advanced, followed by the new system in the PSE X-appeal risers. They move the bolt rather than the dovetail. Since most of the load is on the dovetail, why would you want that to be the part that moves?
> 
> John


What makes you think that the dovetail has most of the load on it?


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## pleasantarcher (Jun 19, 2012)

Thank you all for the informative replies. It's definitely food for thought. I might try to save my pennies so I can get a higher cost riser. Mainly focused on the Hoyt GMX and W&W Inno Al1, but the RCX-100 felt good as well. I probably won't notice the difference between all of these for a while, but I might have some money to burn later on. I'm kind of worried about carbon fiber (limbs and/or riser) + any heat in a parked car for any span of time, though. 

I had one last set of questions: what's the recommended weight progression in regards to beginner/intermediate limbs? Is 30# a good starting point? Would a 4# progression be too big of a jump? Any downside to picking limbs that are all wood (up until ~38#+)? Thanks everyone.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

pleasantarcher said:


> Thank you all for the informative replies. It's definitely food for thought. I might try to save my pennies so I can get a higher cost riser. Mainly focused on the Hoyt GMX and W&W Inno Al1, but the RCX-100 felt good as well. I probably won't notice the difference between all of these for a while, but I might have some money to burn later on. I'm kind of worried about carbon fiber (limbs and/or riser) + any heat in a parked car for any span of time, though.
> 
> I had one last set of questions: what's the recommended weight progression in regards to beginner/intermediate limbs? Is 30# a good starting point? Would a 4# progression be too big of a jump? Any downside to picking limbs that are all wood (up until ~38#+)? Thanks everyone.


Look at a Best Zenit, they will take you as far as you want to go and hold their value extremely well. Plus a bit cheaper than what you are looking at.

-Grant


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## pleasantarcher (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks for the tip, Grant. Would a W&W Winex be comparable to the Zenit? I'll keep an eye out for both.


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## pleasantarcher (Jun 19, 2012)

Scratch that. I did some digging by using the search button and found out more than enough information.


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## kepople (Jul 19, 2012)

Well I am confused now because I planned on getting a horizon and zr330s as it was in the beginner budget range I thought but on the high side. 

So what's the best choice for a beginner bow that I can use through interstate level?

Keep in mind I don't buy the cheapest because I have learned I outgrow it quickly.


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## Norman2 (Aug 4, 2012)

kepople said:


> Well I am confused now because I planned on getting a horizon and zr330s as it was in the beginner budget range I thought but on the high side.
> 
> So what's the best choice for a beginner bow that I can use through interstate level?
> 
> Keep in mind I don't buy the cheapest because I have learned I outgrow it quickly.


Hi Kepople,
Why don't you stick with Win & Win. Equipment is just as good if not better value than Hoyt. Just my 2cents. Several months ago
I went through the same process as I made the mistake of buying the cheapest and I found myself upgrading within three months.
In a year I will upgrade again to my final rig and it will be Win & Win. Regards
Norman
PS. At my local range there is a guy that started at the same time I did. (We were both compound 3-D Shooters before changing t0 OL
style) and he bought the best Hoyt with F4 limbs and almost spent 3 grand and he can't hit the side of a barn. He is always asking
how come I can't improve if I have the best stuff. When he goes to practice he shoots 10 arrows and spends the rest of the time
admiring his bow. My advice is practice, practice, practice, practice. Regards
Norman


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## zero-g (Aug 8, 2012)

pleasantarcher said:


> Is 30# a good starting point? Would a 4# progression be too big of a jump? Any downside to picking limbs that are all wood (up until ~38#+)? Thanks everyone.


Hoyt Horizon here with 34# limbs.. its my first bow.

Its tough!

Im no slouch, I bicep curl 80lbs dumbells with no problem, but drawing that 34# and anchoring it for more than 5 seconds... Im shaking all over the place.

Its getting easier now that Im putting more practice in, but in retrospect, something around 24# would have been better to start.


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## Norman2 (Aug 4, 2012)

zero-g said:


> Hoyt Horizon here with 34# limbs.. its my first bow.
> 
> Its tough!
> 
> ...


Hi Zero-g, Unfortunately the curls are not going to help you much as the back and shoulder muscles are the ones that do most of
the work when pulling and holding a 34# recurve. You will find it gets easier the more you practice. Keep it up. Regards
Norman2
PS: I started with 20# and three months later I am up to 24# and doing well. My target is to get to 34# next year and that will
be enough as I only shoot 18Meter indoor meets.


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## Blades (Jun 25, 2012)

I started with a #40 pound recurve and figured out soon it was too much for me, but in the time it took me to save up cash for the new bow, I worked my muscles and can now pretty comfortably hold #32. I have #30 limbs, but i have the screws tightened all the way down, so roughly #32 pounds. picking up some 30's means you can go from #28-32 roughly, assuming a standard draw length, which is nice for beginners. I think 28 should be fine for most people in decent shape. After a few weeks you wont notice it


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## zero-g (Aug 8, 2012)

Norman2 said:


> Hi Zero-g, Unfortunately the curls are not going to help you much as the back and shoulder muscles are the ones that do most of
> the work when pulling and holding a 34# recurve. You will find it gets easier the more you practice. Keep it up. Regards
> Norman2
> PS: I started with 20# and three months later I am up to 24# and doing well. My target is to get to 34# next year and that will
> be enough as I only shoot 18Meter indoor meets.


Yes, its kinda obvious that your biceps do not play a role in this ... My point was that I throw around a lot of weight at the gym and I had assumed pulling a bow would pretty much the same as some of the exercises. My shoulders and back are very developed, the motion of pulling back is easy, the act of holding firm at anchor is something completely different.

Its getting easier every week.


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## Humdinger (Apr 4, 2012)

Wow.. Its funny this thread is here when it is.. I am one of there new archers that has been talked about in this thread. I just recently hit that point where i have no choice but to upgrade away from the Hoyt Horizon for two reasons. 1 is that i have progressed beyond the tunability of the riser. 2 it is now mentally stained in my mind that i cant get the String alignment perfect.

Alittle back story here... I started shooting this year in February. I chose to buy the Hoyt Horizon after use shop bows for 1 month and i must say up until this last month it was a great bow for me. I did none of the tuning on the bow, if there was a problem i handed off to my coach. He would then do whatever he would do to it and i would continue to shoot. I was oblivious to tuning, i just worked on form, form, form, form, and alittle more form. For this the riser is perfect.

Problem.. Well i had a set of kaya tomcat limbs that i used for about 2 months that suddenly twisted and fail at the wedge. Kaya sent me a Set of Vperfs that also twisted and fail at the wedge in one day of shooting. SO i put a set of Old Samick privledge that i had used in the past and noticed that the string alignment was way off. SO i jump right in with a laser and start the Long process of aligning the limbs, string, arrow, and riser. Two hours later i was able to get it close...One issue i found is that you have to take limbs off riser and adjust, reassemble check alignment and repeat for two hours.. Now i believe this is where John is talking about the straightness of the riser and little adjustability. No mater what we did to get it perfect, it was always slightly off alignment. So now i wonder if this riser had a helping hand in Destroying two sets of semi and expensive limbs.

Conclusion.. I now understand that the Horizon was made with the Beginner/intermediate archer in mind. A beginner/intermediate archer will most likely not encounter these issues as they will most likely hand the bow off to get tuned. Also a Beginner/Inter archer wont be to concerned with alignment as its not that important in the early stages. Score is not important.. Its more about building Strength both physically and mentally as an archer and Form. One last thing is that if you are buying this riser chances are you will be buying limbs to match this price range, so limb issues probably wouldnt be an issue. 

Side note i recieved a third set of K7 limbs from Kaya which i will wait until i get a better riser to install. This riser does not like Foam core limbs for some reason. Im now wishing i would have just bought a cheap riser or even a Hoyt Excel which is the same riser without limb adjustment, which is useless on the Horizon in my opinion. I would also say the SF forged is the same price as the Horizon and seems to be a much better riser for the money. However for me it would be a lateral move.

So John SIde Question.. Any recommendations on a Upgrade from the Horizon for me? Im not a Hoyt Loyal and i do use the 2.0 Grip from Jager that i would like to get for the new riser. Any thoughts on this new Sky/Matthews riser coming out?


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## Blades (Jun 25, 2012)

Good post humdinger, bummer you got a crappy riser. 

I got mine and it seems to be straight, and I havnt had to align the limbs or anything , the string seems to sit well enough with the limb adjustment dead center. I havn't started fine tuning anything yet as I dont feel the need to, the tiller was fine out of the box and the brace height seems perfect. New proper spined arrows shoot nice and straight. 

I truly am sorry to hear your story, but for me, it seems like it will work for quite a while. I have noticed the paint issue some have talked about, as I am starting to see small dots of flaked off paint. In a few months I will probably have it stripped down and hydro dipped. I must have gotten one the straight ones though, so no issues there. Hopefully your new riser will work much better for you.


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## zero-g (Aug 8, 2012)

Everything is dead straight on mine too, no problems here.


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## Humdinger (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks Blades! Yeah im glad to hear you guys have had good luck with your risers. Blades if you Hydro dip your bow post pics please. Ive often thought of doing this and would like to see the finished result. Also there is a site that does this type of thing called PimpMyBow.com or something like that. I have never delt with them and have no idea if they are good or not, but they have so cool pics of bows dipped.


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## archerykid13 (Aug 11, 2009)

Hopefully I get a good riser too. I really hope I don't get a crappy one from the start since I have to do all the tuning myself.


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## Amuss71 (Oct 9, 2012)

Limbwalker, would you consider the Eclipse a good second hand riser compared to the Horizon for a beginner?


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