# Wearing earplugs? Legal??



## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

First off, I don't do this...

We shoot at a couple of clubs that allow the members to wear earplugs. Is this allowed? Wouldn't this be a safety violation?

Their complaint is that conversations off the shooting line are too distracting for them! We aren't talking loud stories, just normal level talking at least 20 feet from the line.

I don't know of any rule that demands silence, other than just common courtesy....

Thoughts???

SB


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## Chinese Tea (Mar 17, 2010)

In my opinioin it would be a safety issue because it would impair an archers ability to hear range commands or whistles.


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## Blades (Jun 25, 2012)

I too thought about this, just for added focus, but decided against it for the safety reasons. We do have one guy who shoots with headphones some times though. Says it is a very weird feeling. I also wouldn't do it because I like to hear and feel my clicker. Don't know if i would be able to just go by feel.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Not legal under World Archery rules.


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## Mulcade (Aug 31, 2007)

I shoot with earbuds in if I'm at the range by myself. I'll shoot with only one in if there is one other person on the range that I know well and we aren't engaging in conversation between shooting. Any more than that, they come out, and go back in the quiver.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Mulcade said:


> I shoot with earbuds in if I'm at the range by myself.


I always prefer shooting with beerbuds to earbuds


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## Joe P. (Jan 13, 2004)

>--gt--> said:


> Not legal under World Archery rules.


What is not legal? Shooting with earplugs or shooting with headphones?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

Not being able hear commands aside, can you imagine the surprise when the cable gets wrapped around the string somehow? I've hooked it with my hand while running before. Gets your attention faster than a car horn.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

I routinely wear a bluetooth headset. Sometimes it's on and playing music; sometimes I just keep them in my ears to discourage people from yammering at me every other arrow. I wouldn't use it in tournament, But I found it's a much more diplomatic way than saying " I really don't want to listen to your trash talk."

I'm all for friendly banter between ends, ( I really am! but there are a few people who just don't get that you don't stand behind a guy at full draw and talk at him. 

The cables never get in the way because they're Bluetooth, and you wouldn't even know I'm wearing headphones unless one looked at my ears the band goes behind my headband.

While I'm sure it might be considered antisocial by a few people, I really can't control their opinions. I usually only have a very limited time window to shoot, and when I manage to make it to the range and build my bow, that's really all I want to do.

I leave one ear unplugged, so I can hear anything going on around me ...and I usually shoot at one end of the line so I can see when everyone is ready to clear.


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## CRISSMAN6903 (Mar 11, 2011)

I think if it's that serious that you can't shoot with normal sidebar conversation going you're probably better suited just shooting in your back yard. This is a sport where people talk. Unless maybe you're an Olympian.


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## gumibears (Jun 1, 2008)

Its a safety violation. We dont allow people to wear earbuds or earplugs on our field. If people want to hear music, we have a radio that can be turned down by a non-shooting archer. Also, background conversation is something archers should deal with because it WILL happen. They should practice with it.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Joe P. said:


> What is not legal? Shooting with earplugs or shooting with headphones?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Both are against WA rules. Headphones have been a violation of the "no electronics" rule from the beginning of that rule, and earplugs were added more recently.

Technically you can't even carry your music player and headphones down range in your quiver, though most judges overlook this as long as you aren't wearing the phones.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

CRISSMAN6903 said:


> I think if it's that serious that you can't shoot with normal sidebar conversation going you're probably better suited just shooting in your back yard. This is a sport where people talk. Unless maybe you're an Olympian.



I can't speak for the archers in the OP's post, but for me it's not a matter of inability to concentrate. I actually like normal sidebar chatter, and will even listen to low volume spoken word podcasts when no one is at the range and it's TOO quiet. Again, I would not do it in any sort of a tournament setting.

YMMV.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

MickeyBisco said:


> But I found it's a much more diplomatic way than saying " I really don't want to listen to your trash talk."
> 
> I'm all for friendly banter between ends, ( I really am! but there are a few people who just don't get that you don't stand behind a guy at full draw and talk at him.


What's the context of this talking at you? If people are deliberately talking at you while you are at full draw to bother you that is highly highly inappropriate behavior. It's real ******* behavior.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I've always found it best to just be direct with folks who are pissing me off.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

TER said:


> What's the context of this talking at you? If people are deliberately talking at you while you are at full draw to bother you that is highly highly inappropriate behavior. It's real ******* behavior.



It takes all kinds

Nah... while there are sometimes loud trash talkers bashing someone's form or rig but that's easy to tune out, and they don't stand behind me deliberately...

I enjoy the new folks who want to talk about equipment, but don't understand the "between arrows or ends" etiquette quite yet. I dig folks that are excited to learn as I am very much the same way! 

It's mostly the folks that blast through their dozen arrows quickly, get bored waiting for "clear" to be called, and come wait behind me and talk at me while I'm still shooting. It doesn't happen every time, but with a mix of hunters / trad shooters / Olympic recurvers etc theres often a chatty impatient Kathy. Headphones discourage dialogue, even if they are mock. 

I totally realize that I'm coming across as stuffy and that's not my intent. I was merely pointing out that maybe those people (in the OP) have a reason they are wearing earplugs. Right or wrong.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Chinese Tea said:


> In my opinioin it would be a safety issue because it would impair an archers ability to hear range commands or whistles.


That would be my first thought, but hearing protection is used at *all* gun ranges, and safety is a priority at gun ranges. So I'm not sure it is a black and white issue.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> I've always found it best to just be direct with folks who are pissing me off.


John, 

Oh, if someone's pissing me off I'll be quite direct with them

If they're merely an irritating person (and perhaps have no idea that they're an irritating person) I'd rather do what I can to reduce the irritation caused to me, and leave hurt feelings out of it. I'm willing to place the onus of being an antisocial a-hole squarely over my own ears.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Warbow said:


> That would be my first thought, but hearing protection is used at *all* gun ranges, and safety is a priority at gun ranges. So I'm not sure it is a black and white issue.


Just to 'state the obvious" (and not to imply that you don't know this) "Hearing protection" earplugs or headphones aren't designed to completely eliminate normal sounds/noises - only to cut the top off of the firearms' reports so that it doesn't damage one's hearing. But that type of hearing protectors doesn't seem to be - at least the way I read his post - the type the OP is alluding to. He seems to be describing ear 'plugs' or music ear pieces that block out normal talking level noise. That would definitely qualify as a safety issue imo. Being "unaware" is being unsafe.


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## DanZ (Feb 17, 2009)

I don't think it is safe to shoot WITHOUT ear plugs if you are using rac-em-bac points. IMHO.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

lksseven said:


> Just to 'state the obvious" (and not to imply that you don't know this) "Hearing protection" earplugs or headphones aren't designed to completely eliminate normal sounds/noises - only to cut the top off of the firearms' reports so that it doesn't damage one's hearing. But that type of hearing protectors doesn't seem to be - at least the way I read his post - the type the OP is alluding to. He seems to be describing ear 'plugs' or music ear pieces that block out normal talking level noise. That would definitely qualify as a safety issue imo. Being "unaware" is being unsafe.




Following that train of thought to its logical end would imply that deaf ( Or hearing-impaired) folks are both unaware and unsafe on the line, no matter how aware, safe or attentive they might be. 

Which brings up an interesting point: Electronic and foam ear plugs aside aside, if your hearing is naturally impaired, ( and thus not meeting the requirements listed above for safe / aware shooting) should you not be allowed to shoot on the line?

Honestly, not splitting hairs here. I am describing two identical shooting conditions... there's plenty of folks in their late 60s who listened to a lot of loud music way back when.


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## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

Ok, since we've strayed this far - I guess it's a good thing Tommy stuck to pinball and never picked up a bow...


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

One chooses to block noise and compromise safety when one wears ear plugs. A hearing impaired person didn't make that choice. In such a case it would be contingent on organizers to do everything possible to assist such a person, such as placing them on the line in direct view of the DOS so visual signals could be provided or partnering them with a "minder" to assist with communication (yes I have been there done that).


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

GT,


Thanks! That's pretty much what I figured, and I agree with you in regards to one being a choice. My hypothetical was based more on an informal range setting, where no one is calling the line. I take umbrage at the assertion that one is incapable of being safe and aware if their hearing is ( for any reason) impaired, but we can agree to disagree. I have always maintained line of sight, and am hyper-aware of what is going on around me. Like I stated earlier, often I'll wear earphones to discourage dialogue, but without music playing. I can hear just fine... even with my music low. 

This is all a sidebar to using actual ( foam) earplugs, which are intended to deaden sound. I'll not diverge further.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

_"I leave one ear unplugged, so I can hear anything going on around me"_

Exactly.


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

TER said:


> What's the context of this talking at you? If people are deliberately talking at you while you are at full draw to bother you that is highly highly inappropriate behavior. It's real ******* behavior.


I can't emphasize enough how much I agree with you! We should start a new class called the "sociopath class." Thy should shoot in a deferent area with "head banger" loud music playing on the PA. On a side note, What about someone who is def? They certainly can't hear commands should you not let them participate?


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

Just to refocus this a bit....

The people wearing the earplugs just want to have silence while they shoot....like this is golf or something....

These are serious, shotgun shooting earplugs....custom molded...

My apologies, but IMO, it is a safety issue and if you can't shoot with background noise, then find a hobby like stamp collecting....


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

If any of you ever used ear plugs you probably found them to be very uncomfortable and mostly distracting. Maybe the promoter should post the rules in advance. Like "people who are distracted by rude chatter from fellow archers should not attend.

Or "Strict noise and chatter levels will be enforced." But sadly the promoter is usually among the noisy group and therefor would respond something like this: If you don't like it then take up stamp collecting. For people who can't get along with others is another reason for the sociopath class.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

The club announcer stated that anyone found to be too loud would be asked to leave....apparently, they prefer there tournaments to be held in silence....

I guess it is their club and they can run it any way they want....


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

An odd circumvention of the rule is available to those of us who wear hearing aids and want to block out noise-wear the hearing aids, but do not install batteries.


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

Scott.Barrett said:


> The club announcer stated that anyone found to be too loud would be asked to leave....apparently, they prefer there tournaments to be held in silence....
> 
> I guess it is their club and they can run it any way they want....


I have no problem with this approach as long as it is enforced uniformly and with some intelligence. Quiet conversation is not a problem. Yelling to someone on the other end of the line is a problem. It should not fall to the individual archer to have to request a little courtesy.

Scott, you know how bad it got at the state indoor this year. There was a couple of times that if I had had a can of mace, I might have used it. 

As for ear plugs, I would have to say no for safety reasons, even though I understand and share at times the desire to use them.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

lksseven said:


> Just to 'state the obvious" (and not to imply that you don't know this) "Hearing protection" earplugs or headphones aren't designed to completely eliminate normal sounds/noises - only to cut the top off of the firearms' reports so that it doesn't damage one's hearing. But that type of hearing protectors doesn't seem to be - at least the way I read his post - the type the OP is alluding to. He seems to be describing ear 'plugs' or music ear pieces that block out normal talking level noise. That would definitely qualify as a safety issue imo. Being "unaware" is being unsafe.


IEMs? The kind of earphones that stick in your ear canal with a seal go by a number of names, including in ear monitors and canal phones. I wear them outdoors quite frequently, though not while shooting. With a good seal I can turn the volume of my audio player **down**, so inspite of the seal I am aware of abient noise, albeit at a lower voume. With ear buds that don't seal I'd have to turn the volume up to make it loud enough to hear over the ambient noise, that can cause hearing damage and make it just as hard to hear ambient noise or harder. As a result, I'd say that IEMs are not inherently more of a safety issue than ear buds. But I'm not endorsing either for archery.

I should add that I'd say the real issue isn't earplugs or ear phones but attentional blindness, people who get so focused on their archery and their music that they aren't paying attention to their surroundings--and that is something that can happen with or without earplugs. Its why cell phones, hand held or hands free, are bad for driving. When I wear IEMs I take care to be deliberately situationally aware and to ignore what I'm listening to if something needs my attention.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

ccwilder3 said:


> I have no problem with this approach as long as it is enforced uniformly and with some intelligence. Quiet conversation is not a problem. Yelling to someone on the other end of the line is a problem. It should not fall to the individual archer to have to request a little courtesy.
> 
> Scott, you know how bad it got at the state indoor this year. There was a couple of times that if I had had a can of mace, I might have used it.
> 
> As for ear plugs, I would have to say no for safety reasons, even though I understand and share at times the desire to use them.


Without a doubt, there should be some semblance of "normal" sound and that sound should not be near the shooting line. Unfortunately, indoor tourneys always seem to have the spectators quite close to the line and sometimes they bring their dogs!

When we are outdoors, shooting next to a dog park and a 6 lane road, with wind and birds and everything else, someone having a quiet conversation 20 yards away shouldn't be a problem. I certainly wouldn't want a loud conversation 5 feet away....


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Scott.Barrett said:


> First off, I don't do this...
> 
> We shoot at a couple of clubs that allow the members to wear earplugs. Is this allowed? Wouldn't this be a safety violation?
> 
> ...


I hope this helps.
http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Do...03 Interpretations/2007/Bk2Art7.3_Oct07-e.pdf


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks, serious fun!


Quote:
_A question was raised by a Member Association whether athletes may wear noise reduction devices while on the shooting line in order to minimize external sounds ( *non- electronic devices *such as noise reduction headsets or ear plugs)._


Interesting. Looks like the OPs range buddies can stuff cotton if they'd like, and I see nothing about MP3 players, or music playing headphones. They are specifically _not _ to reduce decibels... And they are most certainly electronic.


The "micro transmitter" giving an unfair advantage was kinda a kick to read, thanks!


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Ear plugs cut down on noise but they definitely do not cut out all sound. I wear them constantly in a high noise work environment to save what little hearing I have left. I can carry on a conversation with someone, albeit loud conversation, so as far as them being a safety issue I disagree. You can still hear quite a bit with them in, it is just muffled, so hearing safety commands, whistles or horns are not a problem.


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

I guess deaf archers can't play.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Of course they can. Try reading what's already been posted.


>--gt--> said:


> One chooses to block noise and compromise safety when one wears ear plugs. A hearing impaired person didn't make that choice. In such a case it would be contingent on organizers to do everything possible to assist such a person, such as placing them on the line in direct view of the DOS so visual signals could be provided or partnering them with a "minder" to assist with communication (yes I have been there done that).


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

Stash said:


> Of course they can. Try reading what's already been posted.


Does that make lt official ? Or ls this a test for reading comprehendtion?


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

Stash said:


> Of course they can. Try reading what's already been posted.


My bad. Of course you're correct. I took a short cut, made a glib remark and shouldn't have. I know, it is the first time to ever happen here, so I apologize and thanks for putting me in my place. 

I too have worked with deaf students and helped them learn the other visual signals to control shooting. GT's comment is much more reasonable than just the rule interpretation that hearing protection inhibits safety. If you can hear, use it because it makes shooting *more* safe. Not, the black and white of no hearing means it is unsafe. Now I will crawl back in my hole.


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## Archery Ang (Apr 24, 2006)

It's ok, Tom. We still love you. :shade:


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## gumibears (Jun 1, 2008)

The deaf or blind archers have been living with it for awhile, they usually are going to be more aware of their surroundings before trying to do anything. It is those who normally rely on hearing who are going to be a problem because the earphones are going to take that hearing away from them. Its like me walking in my house and purposely closing my eyes and trying to navigate from upstairs bathroom to downstairs kitchen. Since I am not used to it, I am more likely to miss a step or bang into something.


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## Bee Man (Feb 22, 2013)

I dont see how its a safety issue, arrows go where i see my sights, not where i hear. You wouldnt believe the hours ive spent shootig guns wearing ear plugs with people behind me and it never was a safety issue once. I would think its more safe than shooting a gun with ear plugs just because guns go off easier and with archery you kinda have to be looking somehwere near the general direction your releasing arrows.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Bee Man said:


> I dont see how its a safety issue, arrows go where i see my sights, not where i hear. You wouldnt believe the hours ive spent shootig guns wearing ear plugs with people behind me and it never was a safety issue once. I would think its more safe than shooting a gun with ear plugs just because guns go off easier and with archery you kinda have to be looking somehwere near the general direction your releasing arrows.


Yes. Hearing protection is not only worn at gun ranges, it is also worn in auto racing and on construction job sites, both of which are dangerous and require utmost safety. So it is not a black and white issue in terms of archery. The issue is really the person and whether they are attentive. That is why deaf people can shoot, because it is about paying attention, and not totally about hearing.


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## fitadude (Jul 15, 2004)

One thing I have found with archers is they alway want to blame equipment or noise or someone moved anything but they last concentration and made a bad shot. This is not golf we don"t have a guy with a white board holding it up. This game is mostly mental and if you cant keep it together under all circumstances you will never succeed under pressure. I have had everything from cow bells to air horns going off before. As far as ear plugs. I have not ever heard a bow that can damage your ears from the noise it makes. Ear plugs are not different than ear phones or ear buds. The attempt to take you away from the atmosphere of the competition should be against protocol. The people who never make a bad shot on their own are the ones who ***** the loudest about things that should not even matter.


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

fitadude said:


> One thing I have found with archers is they alway want to blame equipment or noise or someone moved anything but they last concentration and made a bad shot. This is not golf we don"t have a guy with a white board holding it up. This game is mostly mental and if you cant keep it together under all circumstances you will never succeed under pressure. I have had everything from cow bells to air horns going off before. As far as ear plugs. I have not ever heard a bow that can damage your ears from the noise it makes. Ear plugs are not different than ear phones or ear buds. The attempt to take you away from the atmosphere of the competition should be against protocol. The people who never make a bad shot on their own are the ones who ***** the loudest about things that should not even matter.


This argument does not take into consideration P.T.S.D. Post traumatic Stress Disorder. People who have it are hyper sensitive to noise. More people have it than you might think. Including military veterans. You Know, the same people that protect your right to say hurtful things like this. So cut them a break.


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## fitadude (Jul 15, 2004)

horndog said:


> This argument does not take into consideration P.T.S.D. Post traumatic Stress Disorder. People who have it are hyper sensitive to noise. More people have it than you might think. Including military veterans. You Know, the same people that protect your right to say hurtful things like this. So cut them a break.


I have PTSD So I know all about it!!!!!!!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Doug, I think I was offended by your post. You owe me an apology too...  LOL!

Get a grip folks. Doug is absolutely right. If you think you need earplugs to shoot better, then you've got bigger issues than what you might hear.


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

horndog said:


> Or ls this a test for reading comprehendtion?


Or perhaps a spelling test.


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## horndog (Jan 5, 2009)

Lighten up - it's archery


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