# How important is centershot?



## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

My bows are set up with about an arrows width left of the string, and then tuned to hit the target, or where i'm aiming. A couple aren't, like my longbow for instance. I was snooping on the fita forum the other day, and Demmer's bow had the arrow way left of centershot. I'm assuming that if you have the right spined arrow for your bow, maybe centershot isn't such a critical adjustment? Any thoughts? Thanks, lunger


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## ChefMatt (Nov 7, 2014)

Wondered the same thing

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## olddogrib (Apr 4, 2014)

Bingo, as long as you realize that the further outside the string/riser center it aligns(within reason), you may need a weaker spine to allow for paradox I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If my arrows found the mark like Demmer's I wouldn't care if the arrow was pointing due west on a northern target. I'm convinced he just does that because he's got good enough form and it messes with his competition's minds. If he'd tune conventionally he'd win Olympic gold if his equipment didn't DQ him, lol!


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## AReric (Mar 6, 2010)

I imagine center-shot, just like tiller, are important to some, and not to others. Myself, if I have to build out the strike plate, to stiffen an arrow, I will just go for a stiffer arrow. Some like to tune the bow to the arrow, some the arrow to the bow. I like to tune the arrow to the bow, most of the way. Brace height and silencer placement, I don't normally use to fine tune as some do. I will put it where the bow shoots quietest first, then use arrow length and tip/insert weight to get it where I want it. No right or wrong in much of this (tuning), just different ways to get there.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

Keep in mind Demmer is a freak LOL


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Mark - 

Center shot is a tuning parameter, nothing more. 
For most people, the arrow to the left of the string, the way you described, will be the optimal position, while using other parameters to hone in on the tune.
Going to center, or deeper means that an over spine arrow is being used - simple geometry. 
The reason there, is that a better sight picture (gap) will usually mean more than a perfect tune. 
Just another reason I went to sights 

Viper1 out.


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

I'm just sickbecause i'd already thought of that! I don't want to go to sights though! Yet...... lol!!!!! Seriously, I love shooting great without the sights. So far...... Mark


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Mark - 

I shot bare bow/instinctive/gap/whatever for over 35 years, and did pretty well. 
Looking at all the hoops the modern BB types jump through, just to not use sights didn't add up any more. 
Doing more work and getting less out of it - I dunno...
But that's just my take. 

Viper1 out.


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## Demmer3 (Apr 23, 2017)

Viper1 said:


> Mark -
> 
> I shot bare bow/instinctive/gap/whatever for over 35 years, and did pretty well.
> Looking at all the hoops the modern BB types jump through, just to not use sights didn't add up any more.
> ...


What are you talking about. Lol

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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

You know your on AT when an Olympic recurve duffer tells one of the top BB archers in the world that he's "getting less out of it".


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

That's funny! !!! Demmer, since you're here, what's your opinion on the centershot? I saw a pic of your bow the other day, and it really got me thinking. Mark


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## Demmer3 (Apr 23, 2017)

lunger 66 said:


> That's funny! !!! Demmer, since you're here, what's your opinion on the centershot? I saw a pic of your bow the other day, and it really got me thinking. Mark


We all see things differently, so CS is an individual thing. The bs and fletched will tell ya what ya need. Don't fight it, cause you'll end up chasing your tail for too long. 

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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

Thankyou, Mark


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## Smokedinpa (Mar 1, 2015)

I took up BB because to get rid of the gadgets (sights, releases, drop away rests). Getting my site picture and watching the arrow hit the mark. Not a sight. Enjoy your archery but BB is the satisfaction of the challenge for me.
Center shot is only important if that's what your looking for. Probably makes tuning easier but you don't need it to tune your arrows to your bow.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but....

Make sure your center shot tunes for all distances. A lot of folks will bareshaft at one or two shorter distances. That tells you that you are tuned for those distances, which means it could be accidental or coincidental, depending on your perspective. You don't need to shoot bareshafts 70 meters but you need to make sure that your arrows are on center line, up to your capability, at all distances that you shoot. Outcome is what counts.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Stringwalking tune is bit of a dark art so it sometimes requires thinking outside the box to get a tune for ALL distances. That can be part of the enjoyment also when you get a great tune.

Having shot both Longbows and modern centershot Recurves it's just easier to tune and less critical on arrow spine, you can get both perfect arrow flight with either type of bow


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

I wonder how much the point of impact would actually move with the arrow pushed further left? We're still looking dead center down the full length of the arrow shaft. The bow will be further to the right though.....


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Stephen Morley said:


> Stringwalking tune is bit of a dark art so it sometimes requires thinking outside the box to get a tune for ALL distances.


I'm still looking for the box. I am not sure if I am in the box or out of it when it comes to tuning for stringwalking. I have my strategies though.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Stephen Morley said:


> Having shot both Longbows and modern centershot Recurves it's just easier to tune and less critical on arrow spine, you can get both perfect arrow flight with either type of bow


Whut he sed! And you might as well throw self bows with a shoot around riser in there as well.

You'll note that when following a tuning procedure such as "Tuning for 10's" once you set your center shot, you don't diddle with it. So it deserves some initial thought, but no need to agonize over it. 

Set it and forget it.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

I've had fun recently, dropped poundage and reduced point weight and cut my arrows shorter so I could maintain my 60y point on, I could get a good BS tune to 30y as before but my arrows went way left past 45y, if I tuned for long shots I ended up going 2" right on all my short shots. In the end I had to get weaker arrows.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

The approach I am working on now is a straight three under tune with a 74 inch bow. That way I am fine with the long shots and have to make adjustments for the short. This is just a starting point. I will fine tune as I go. I shot my last few field tournaments with this strategy. I think it will work well for NFAA where there are so many shots beyond my point-on. It might be worth making a few adjustments for FITA field. By the way, I am keeping my point-on shorter, somewhere between 40 and 45 yards (35 to 40 meters) to reduce the size of my crawls. I think this is where the 74 inch bow will help. I find that my crawls are the same for 70 and 74 inch bows. The longer string of the 74 inch bow will have less of an impact on the balance of the bow for the same length crawl. We'll see how it works. With my draw, using a 74 inch bow may be pretty similar to other folks using 70.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> The approach I am working on now is a straight three under tune with a 74 inch bow. That way I am fine with the long shots and have to make adjustments for the short. This is just a starting point. I will fine tune as I go. I shot my last few field tournaments with this strategy. I think it will work well for NFAA where there are so many shots beyond my point-on. It might be worth making a few adjustments for FITA field. By the way, I am keeping my point-on shorter, somewhere between 40 and 45 yards (35 to 40 meters) to reduce the size of my crawls. I think this is where the 74 inch bow will help. I find that my crawls are the same for 70 and 74 inch bows. The longer string of the 74 inch bow will have less of an impact on the balance of the bow for the same length crawl. We'll see how it works. With my draw, using a 74 inch bow may be pretty similar to other folks using 70.


What riser/limb combo got you to 74"? I know there are 27" risers, but I thought that would only get you to 72" with long limbs


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Barebow = a complicated way to shoot a simple bow. I love it by the way.......


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

Absolutely! I was expecting a quick witted answer about how important you are, from the title. Lol!!!! Lunger


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

dnelsen said:


> What riser/limb combo got you to 74"? I know there are 27" risers, but I thought that would only get you to 72" with long limbs


Some limbs are offered in "extra long".


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I have extra long Border XP10 Evolution and HEX6 limbs on a Bernardini Luxor riser. I am currently transitioning from the XP10 to the HEX6. I am in the pretune shooting phase. I usually like to shoot a bow for 4 to 8 weeks before I start serious tuning, especially if there are no tournaments coming up and I have the time. It allows me to get comfortable with the bow.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Don't forget the plunger and spring tension. They impact centershot too. If shooting off the shelf or with no plunger, then your hand gets forced a bit with tuning. With a plunger and elevated rest, I find quite a bit of latitude in tuning the bow to suit the arrow.

Here are my observations:

*One arrow width outside the string is typical. This accounts for displacement of the arrow by the finger release and provides fletching clearance. If you have a buttery smooth release and/or low profile fletching (like curly vanes) then closer to at centershot can work.

*Centershot will also be impacted by your arrow specs. The bottom line is that you pick your arrows based on a number of factors, including price and availability. In other words, you are tuning the bow to the arrow *and* the arrow to the bow, and both are limited to certain practical extents.

*There are multiple solutions possible. Stiffer arrow and more centershot, weaker arrow and less centershot.

*Forgiveness is a common goal. That is the extent to which an imperfect release or other form element reduces accuracy. There is substantial discussion and debate about precisely what this is, but most of us have experienced bows which seems to punish form flaws and others that seem to let it slide.

*Let bareshaft tuning be your guide. This will get you to a de facto tune. You have to respect and listen to the results. You could end up with a tune like Demmer's and if it works, it works. If the tune is just too weird and hurts your brain or feels wrong, change a basic parameter like arrow spine and tune again.

*Tuning for stringwalking and facewalking is a different beast. For this, you will tune for an intermediate distance - that is, try for a good average tune, accepting a bit of wonky arrow flight at the extremes.

*The tune needs to align with your aiming method. Viper has a good point in that using a sight allows you to do whatever to get a good tune and adjust the sight to accommodate. Barebow gets a bit tougher because of things like anchor point, head position, eye position, and string blur. Stringwalking adds a twist with crawls which alter the tune. Facewalking adds a twist with multiple anchor points that alter other parameters too, even perhaps some form elements. Many like to use a click-adjustable plunger to fine tune aim, sometimes on-the-fly.

*Give each major change enough time to settle in and stabilize before evaluating the result.

*Tuning is only as good as your native accuracy. There is definitely a point of diminishing returns.

Yours is an interesting question. Long story short, I tested three different degrees of centershot (center, half-arrow-width, one-arrow-width) and found they required different strength springs in the Beiter plunger. I selected the combination that put my intermediate distance tune in the center of the plunger range (near 5) so I have room to adjust for crawls. (BTW, nice thing about Beiter is the product consistency and force measurements, which are accurate enough for me to predict a tune and successfully do it.). Ironically, I ended up with one arrow width off center and a medium spring at 6 for my intermediate distance. Viper is probably thinking "no duh" right now and he is probably correct, this is by design and decades of product experience and development. But, I believe there is merit in experimenting and understanding if you are going to push the parameters with something like string or face walking.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

J, 

Your clarifying and nicely-spoken commentary does not go unnoticed.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Good stuff j.conner...

When you say "more centershot", do you mean closer to centered on the string? Or further away from the string?


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

More centershot is closer to being in a direct line with the string. Full centershot is where the string is in line with the string and the center of the bow. Less centershot is where the tip of the arrow is left of that for a right-handed archer.

Thanks for the compliment, Thin Man and dnelson - much appreciated!


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## BiillStorm (Aug 2, 2015)

Check out Rick Stonebreaker's Barebow Tuning for Tens. He has a discussion of center shot.


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## penumbra (Aug 23, 2016)

Almost nothing here is about the original post.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

lunger 66 said:


> My bows are set up with about an arrows width left of the string, and then tuned to hit the target, or where i'm aiming. A couple aren't, like my longbow for instance. I was snooping on the fita forum the other day, and Demmer's bow had the arrow way left of centershot. I'm assuming that if you have the right spined arrow for your bow, maybe centershot isn't such a critical adjustment? Any thoughts? Thanks, lunger


Centershot risers make my tuning wood dowels much easier to resolve since spine of these arrows are out of the box really unknown, but in all cases so far, over 100#... my longbows, on the other hand, are painful to tune with hickory... though I do group arrows by flight and that helps... centershot helps much more... :grin:... *in my opinions*


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