# Warning,ASA's chrony is a speed trap!!!!!!!!!!



## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

My son was DQ'd in London,Ky. on a bogus chrony reading,along with several others.There were a couple that were shooting in the 270's on a 246 max speed class and that was the reasoning for the others being chrono'ed in the class.
My son has been getting podiums all year and his bow shoots 244 on several different chrono's,then contacted some of the others that were chronoed from all around the country and they said they checked their bows afterwards and all agreed that the ASA chrono was 5 to 7 fps faster than all theirs also.
Ya I know that they can vary,but this is a little tough to stomach.There has got to be something better.
My advice to everyone is shoot through "their" chrono before going to the range,cause it may be way off faster than the rest of the worlds chronies......................Lesson learned here,but it still stings!
I think that 3 out of the 6 DQ's were only by a couple of fps and the others were legitimately way over the limit regardless of the readings being 3 to 5 fps to hot.
I think the speed limits are a good thing,and I also like the stated variance tolerances,but this is one time that THERE chrony was wrong,not the bows.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

Boy that sucks for sure. Can't you request another chrony to check it on? Seems like they'd have another or three just to be sure your reading hot.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Boggles my mind when the max is 240 someone would set their bow at 244? Limit is 240 fps. +/- 3% is for situations where a chrono is wonky. Its your fault he dq'd.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

You have a variance of 3%, and if you "use it up, or really any of it" with YOUR chronnie by setting your bows up to the max that INCLUDES the 3% above the limit, then that is YOUR fault, and frankly, I don't feel one bit sorry for you!
Even setting it up right on the maximum speed number is risky business, but using up the variance is akin to hari-kari.

Besides that, there is NOT an S-1 standard for chronographs used in archery, so you cannot use a "standard" to set your chronnie to to verify it. That is the reason for the 3% variance!
if the max speed is 240 and you add the 3%, that gives you the variance for chronnie differences up to 247.2 fps. So, if you set your bow at 244 on YOUR chronnie, you are asking for problems!
Wiser move would be to set the bow at a MAX of 240 or better yet, even 238 fps. The ASA, I believe, also warns that THEIR chronnie is the one that will be used and if you "bust it", then you are DQ'd.

People shooting 270+ in a 240 max class, you say? They asked for the DQ.
field 14.


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## gklr (Nov 1, 2003)

I was there when this happened, one of the shooters in the group was a shooter from my shop, he was also shooting 246 fps which was the 3% upper limit which was exactly what our chrono was at the shop. Dee told us that 1 more fps he would have been dq also.
We dropped 1/2 round on each limb and went to 243 the next morning.

Everyone needs to check there bows on any chrono available if your are going to play the upper limit.


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## Big red dog (Jun 5, 2012)

I shot mine thru it and it shoot the same as the one in our shop sucks for the kids but rules are rules


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

Do they take the crony reading before or after the round? I would think to be fair it should be before the round and then after for the top shooters.


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

Rules are rules.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

my runnin' buddy shot his through there on saturday and it read quite a bit fast on his.

me? no problem at 270.


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

The first thing I do when I get to an ASA shoot is shoot trough the crono .Most of the time it will read faster than any one I shoot trough at home .I even have the exact same one ,threes is always faster .That's why they give you the 3% set it at 240 next time ,and shot trough the crono when you get there .
They always have a couple set up to shoot trough .It doesn't matter if theres is off by 20fps it's the one they use.
Even at 244 on a real hot day I would be willing to bet ,it would be over the max at the end of the day .
You sir have no one to blame but yourself .It like drinking and driving ,you had a chance to stop it before it happened.

I think they should check more shooters .

Great job ASA for checking the cheating kids , there parents should have been DQ also.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Mine read exactly what it did at home through their chronograph .That is exactly why you don't push the limits .Shooting a fast bow is no different than than any other rules infraction. Good job ASA for catching it. The rules are the rules.
I like how you try to blame them for you breaking the rules.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

When I shot through their graph it read 2 feet slower than my graph here at home.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Big red dog said:


> I shot mine thru it and it shoot the same as the one in our shop sucks for the kids but rules are rules


Doesn't suck at all; kids or no kids...like you said, the rules are the rules, period. 

If 240 is the MAX speed...then if a person is smart, they DISREGARD the 3% margin of error and set the bow at either 240, or better yet 238 or so..then they don't run the risk. Play with fire and you WILL get burned!

When I was shooting IBO a few years back, the IBO was running the chronnie on EVERYONE that shot over 94 out of 100 on each 10-target set! They were checking scorecards and THEY picked an arrow out of your quiver and watched you closely as you shot that arrow thru THEIR chronnie. I saw several get DQ'd on the spot for being over the limit. That was before they made the changes, however, so I don't know whether or not they are checking everyone shooting over 94 for 10 targets or not.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

field14 said:


> Doesn't suck at all; kids or no kids...like you said, the rules are the rules, period.
> 
> If 240 is the MAX speed...then if a person is smart, they DISREGARD the 3% margin of error and set the bow at either 240, or better yet 238 or so..then they don't run the risk. Play with fire and you WILL get burned!
> 
> When I was shooting IBO a few years back, the IBO was running the chronnie on EVERYONE that shot over 94 out of 100 on each 10-target set! They were checking scorecards and THEY picked an arrow out of your quiver and watched you closely as you shot that arrow thru THEIR chronnie. I saw several get DQ'd on the spot for being over the limit. That was before they made the changes, however, so I don't know whether or not they are checking everyone shooting over 94 for 10 targets or not.


When did IBO have a speed limit?.

94/100 they would be checking a lot of people these days

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, it happens. "Knock on wood." So far every chronograph at ASA Qualifiers and State Championships shows my bow a couple feet per second slower. I think, 280, 281 and 284. One bow hammered 285 and checked the 284. I had changed vanes and my bow gained a bit, but thought I'd be okay and I was. My MarXman was running a little hot, so I made some changes that should have dropped it to 280 fps. Checked at the shoot last month and it didn't drop like I thought. Yep, was running up against 286, slowed it down and it checked 284.5 fps.


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

That's what you get when you push the limit. 240 and 3% margin of error


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Father thought he knew best!!


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

You're lucky they didn't go back and take away his wins from earlier based on the premise that the bow was probably over speed at those too.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

outbackarcher said:


> When I shot through their graph it read 2 feet slower than my graph here at home.


1 slower than mine


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm not dishing on ASA as many of you interpreted,I'm just expressing that there should be a more consistant evaluation as he has shot through there chrono before and read okay,below max.Nothing has changed ,at all,in his setup.I know it would take to much time probably,but if everyone could take a quick shot as they get their range cards{as if that's not already a trainwreck} like we do at our state ASA championships and get verified for the shoot;before it starts with the chance of on range testing always possible to detour any after start changes.To me readings being different because of humidity,altitude,lighting,etc at different shoots and at different times of the day or in different lighting depending on sunshine ,shades,or clouds just sucks,but it is what it is.
I was just really bummed for my son and needed to vent as we go to all of them and what is good to go one shoot should be good at the next one also.
Anyway,we learned a costly lesson and I just wanted to pass this unfortunate education on to others to possibly enable them to avoid the same situation as this is not often discussed on here.....and I do feel that ASA is still the best horse in the race.


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

D.Short said:


> I'm not dishing on ASA as many of you interpreted,I'm just expressing that there should be a more consistant evaluation as he has shot through there chrono before and read okay,below max.Nothing has changed ,at all,in his setup.I know it would take to much time probably,but if everyone could take a quick shot as they get their range cards{as if that's not already a trainwreck} like we do at our state ASA championships and get verified for the shoot;before it starts with the chance of on range testing always possible to detour any after start changes.To me readings being different because of humidity,altitude,lighting,etc at different shoots and at different times of the day or in different lighting depending on sunshine ,shades,or clouds just sucks,but it is what it is.
> I was just really bummed for my son and needed to vent as we go to all of them and what is good to go one shoot should be good at the next one also.
> Anyway,we learned a costly lesson and I just wanted to pass this unfortunate education on to others to possibly enable them to avoid the same situation as this is not often discussed on here.....and I do feel that ASA is still the best horse in the race.


Way to take it in stride, does tend to suck for the little fella though...


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

You are exactly right, lighting can affect the reading and humidity and heat can affect the bow. Do you have the option to request another shot with different lighting?


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

NO,it was final,on the spot as was told to us by the official.Guess we could have protested it through due process,but didn't really consider that as I didn't want to drag my son through that kind of ordeal.However I would have if it had happened to me on my range.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

You (your son) is on the range.....you have it right it is final.....can't protest the rules.....sorry it happen but it's a learning point....


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

Just to be clear,I wouldn't protest the rules.I like and agree with all the rules;but I might protest the chances that the chrony's calibration/accuracy had changed or was different on the powerline than it was at the pavilion.Maybe it took a bad bounce on the bumpy ride in transport to the range.
In fact some of the boys DQ'd shot through it later/next day and got slower readings.One boy was actually DQ'd by 1fps.6 DQ's out of the 12 tested leaves me wondering.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

bhtr3d said:


> You (your son) is on the range.....you have it right it is final.....can't protest the rules.....sorry it happen but it's a learning point....


I've seen people taken off to the chrono by the bags after shooting hot through the one on the range. Doesn't seem to final.


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

i really don't understand gaming the speed limit. would those extra 4fps made any difference whatsoever in his results? take a half turn out of the limbs without telling him and see if it matters.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

D.Short said:


> Just to be clear,I wouldn't protest the rules.I like and agree with all the rules;but I might protest the chances that the chrony's calibration/accuracy had changed or was different on the powerline than it was at the pavilion.*Maybe it took a bad bounce on the bumpy ride in transport to the range.*In fact some of the boys DQ'd shot through it later/next day and got slower readings.One boy was actually DQ'd by 1fps.6 DQ's out of the 12 tested leaves me wondering.


Off by a bad balance would more give erratic readings or give Err (error). Been there, done that. I've several chronographs over the years. Some have taken some pretty bad hits, clipped by both bullets and arrows. It's all electric and "windows" see to start and stop the timer. One was stole, one got sent down range by a .44 slug, one gave erratic readings and errors to no end and did so on it's own (never banged up or dropped - company repaired free).


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

If ou knowingly go into the shoot hot then that is kinda your fault. I think in the past I have been at 282, BUT I always check it prior to shooting at teh state shoot. Saw 284 once but I was till in the limit. If I was going to a big shoot where I knew they checked it after the shoot--you bet your bottom dollar that I would know before that I was sitting at 280.

What is the speed limit now for the Unlimited Class, anyone know if it went to 290---not that I'll adjust my set up, just want to know.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

If the limit is 240 , that is the limit. the percentage difference is for the chrony ,not the archer. There should be no variance. what ever the hosts clock is , then thats what you go by .


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Man I feel for you. I would feel awful and solely responsible if my kid had illegal gear. 

Once I voluntarily shot through a chrony after an ASA state championship. I was curious so I walked all the way back to the truck to get my bow........ Only to be DQ'd (lost 2nd place) because of 1 fps. Shot it through 3 different chrony's that afternoon and it was legal by a couple of fps. It was simply an oversight on my part for not checking the speed after tweaking the bow during the week. I had been shooting 284 fps. I guess the tweaks picked up a few fps and maybe I pulled harder into the wall. It didn't bother me to "lose" but I was VERY embarrassed!!!! A few fps is absolutely NOT going to "win" anything but it can damn sure ruin your afternoon!

Personally, if I was responsible for equipment testing that could possibly DQ someone I would have use more than one "measure". I would have to utilize a bow that has been verified by multiple chrony's to confirm speeds. I could not use a single piece of equipment that is known to have conditional variances as the single source for DQ'ing someone. 

As well as the ASA is organized and run I would have thought equipment found on the range to be illegal would be "voluntarily impounded" and re-evaluated to be sure the equipment was in fact illegal. Especially in a situation that seems a bit suspicious such as half the bows tested being deemed too fast.

The police are required to have their radar certified on a regular basis. Even then it seems they trim a few MPH's off speeding tickets. I always thought it was so they could be _very_ sure they were not making a mistake. By the way, I haven't received a speeding ticket in over 25 years........I'm knocking on wood!!!!!!


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

brtesite said:


> If the limit is 240 , that is the limit. the percentage difference is for the chrony ,not the archer. There should be no variance. what ever the hosts clock is , then thats what you go by .


3% rule is for difference between chronos. just like in forms of racing you push rules to the edge sometimes it backfires.


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## elkhunter (Jun 7, 2002)

Several years ago the ASA chrono was always 2fps slower than mine --- 2yrs ago their chronos were right on with mine --- this year their chronos are 3fps faster than mine. Like most said, "chrono your bow on their chrono BEFORE you go out on the range" just to be safe.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

The Rules are the Rules.......

Trust me if one of the Pros bows would had been over speed when checked they would had been DQ also so its just part of the game.....

Dont let it get your son down.....keep shooting enjoy the sport just check your gear next time b4 stepping out on the line!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

It's 290....any class that is 45 yards or longer is 290
This is for the guy that asked about unlimited...


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

i dont understand why they put a speed limit on the all known yardage classes. but to the op, you knew the rules and hopefully lesson learned.


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## bowtexan (Oct 26, 2010)

Outside chronos are usually a little hot. Also learn where to shoot through the chrono. The higher you shoot through it the hotter it reads. The lower you shoot through it the slower it reads.


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

ASA does their speed checks during the round - not before or after. That is the best way to do it and it can catch one off guard if they are cheating. It makes absolutely no sense to me to press the limit for 4-5 fps as that most likely won't even change your sight tape at 280 fps. I have never been checked and gotten a different reading than I got at the practice bales. If you were caught with several fps faster than the chrony at the practice site, a change was most certainly made to the bow. Set up at 276-280 and go with it. I know that my sight tape doesn't change from 276 to 280 from 25 yards to 50 yards. Be pro-active and prepared before you hit the range!!


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Never shot ASA, can you declare equipment malfunction if your string stretches and causes you to be over? Fix and continue?


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## mtn3531 (Mar 6, 2009)

D.Short said:


> NO,it was final,on the spot as was told to us by the official.Guess we could have protested it through due process,but didn't really consider that as I didn't want to drag my son through that kind of ordeal.However I would have if it had happened to me on my range.


I know shooters who have shot hot through one chronic and requested a different chronic and ASA brought another one from a different range to verify. Well within your right to ask for the verification. Like has been said earlier though its best not to use up all of your wiggle room.


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## mtn3531 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ha, just noticed I typed chronic instead of chrony. Dang auto-correct.


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## AZBowhunt (Nov 4, 2007)

D.Short said:


> My son was DQ'd in London,Ky. on a bogus chrony reading,along with several others.There were a couple that were shooting in the 270's on a 246 max speed class and that was the reasoning for the others being chrono'ed in the class.
> My son has been getting podiums all year and his bow shoots 244 on several different chrono's,then contacted some of the others that were chronoed from all around the country and they said they checked their bows afterwards and all agreed that the ASA chrono was 5 to 7 fps faster than all theirs also.
> Ya I know that they can vary,but this is a little tough to stomach.There has got to be something better.
> My advice to everyone is shoot through "their" chrono before going to the range,cause it may be way off faster than the rest of the worlds chronies......................Lesson learned here,but it still stings!
> ...


Well, if it was the chrony being used, then it is 100% correct regardless of it's comparison to other chrony's. That's the way it works.


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## Chase Hatcher (Jan 30, 2012)

I heard someone got DQ'd at London and they were in the 3% error range.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Chase Hatcher said:


> I heard someone got DQ'd at London and they were in the 3% error range.


what was the reason for the disqualification? there's many rules the violation of which would lead to disqualification, not just bustin' the speed limit. let's hear the rest of the story.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Alpha Burnt said:


> Never shot ASA, can you declare equipment malfunction if your string stretches and causes you to be over? Fix and continue?


no...not possible


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Chase Hatcher said:


> I heard someone got DQ'd at London and they were in the 3% error range.


did they pull a vincent?


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