# paper tune distance



## poppingrunt (Feb 23, 2010)

*?*

Bump i was told to paper tune a couple feet in front of paper, i also would like to here some thoughts on this.:smile:


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## edthearcher (Nov 2, 2002)

*post*



Baldwin Buck said:


> i have been having trouble paper tuning my Z7. i have been shooting at a distance of 5-6 feet away from the paper. i am hearing more and more talk about paper tuning at 15+ feet to give these carbon arrows with newer higher energy bows a chance to stabilize.
> 
> is this what everyone is experiencing or tuning at?
> 
> thanks for the help


min. of 10 feet


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## kanga (Dec 8, 2009)

When viewing in super slo motion how an arrow looks as it leaves a bow, I can't possibly see how it can make a bullet hole when shot close to the paper. 

After much trial and error, I have settled on this method of paper tuning. It may seem a little odd as it's sort of in reverse to the norm. First off, I stand 20 yards back and look to get a perfect bullet hole. Not difficult, as the fletching should have stabilised the arrow at that distance. I then move in to about 8 yards and tune at that distance. Next I move to 5 yards and see how it looks. If it looks OK, maybe a 3/16" tear here or there, I simply don't worry about it, If it's ugly, I will make further adjustments. I then move back to 20 yards and if the holes are still perfect, then I'm happy.

I tend to think that paper tuning is a little over rated and can cause a lot of frustration and wasted time, but that's only my opinion. Good luck.


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

Well shooting a fletched arrow at one distance...gives one an answer at that distance. Shooting close..real close...one might still be experiencing occilation (sp?), whereas at 20yds things should be pretty stable (if not then there may be several issues). Paper tuning with fletching is something that needs to be done at several distances....5yds, 8yds...12yds or there-abouts. It can be tricky but many can do it and get real good performance. In the end, one distance with fletched arrows gives you the result at that distance...but not over the stabilization distance. Been there done that.

I no longer like to use vanes...just a bareshaft thru paper. It doesn't lie...if there is a problem you'll know it. Sometimes its the shooter....but when it isn't it can be "the system". Tells you alot about the spine, rest, yoke (if that is playing here) and individual form. In the end, if you can punch a bullet with a bareshaft, you're well on your way.


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

I don't papertune because the fact that 98% of the time when I did I would still have to move the rest to get my BH/FP to hit same POI and group right, which is what most hunters want in the first place, So I just took the paper out of the picture and it made my life alot easier, as a hunter and a shop owner/tuner. True if everything is perfect it can be helpful but for the most part it is like every other kind of tuning method, Its a good starting point but not one single tuning method will properly tune a bow, it take a combination of a few methods to get it right, Me I walkback tune and then BH tune only and it works flawlessly, My target bows I walkback then bareshaft and group tune at extreme distance to get my bows right, but thats just me


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## pure havoc (Apr 21, 2003)

if im just shooting a 5 spot at 20 yards then paper tune is fine but when I step back to 30 yards and it shoots 3" to the right on my rig then its needs adjustment. paper tune is good for one distance if you ask me . walk back tune if your going to be setting up a hunting rig or 3d rig . just my experience, not all bows are the same and I have paper tuned bows at 6 ft that shot the same vert at 20 as 90 yards so each bow is different and you need to set it up for you . paper tune at no less than 6 ft then step back and shoot a vert at 20 and 30 and see what ya got .


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

I start at 3yds minimum and go back to 20yds in 5yd steps. I'm not really concerned what it does at 3yds....if it is a bullet hole, great! I don't shoot anything that short anyway! If it can get stabilized by 20ft, that is what I look for because it is my shortest shot in field.

Check out some YouTube videos of the last Archery World Cup. They often show slow motion shots that show that the arrow is still flexing when it is quite a distance from the bow!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Most articles and books say 6 to 8 feet.

As for carbon arrows and today's higher energy bows needing distance to settle down, don't believe it. The farther you test the more time the arrow has time to correct itself, that's all.

So what is your problem? What kind of tear? What is your setup?


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## bowhuntr311 (May 20, 2009)

So, I like the idea of bareshaft paper tuning. Does anyone else use this?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Bare shaft tuning has it's place. When I do I try for a clean hole from around 6 to 8 feet. Once I have that I switch to the fletched shaft. If a ragged hole, then contact somewhere.


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## Bowtek1 (Apr 30, 2008)

Personally I am considering stopping paper tuning, especially with a fall away. Currently walk back tune, and bh tune hunting bows. For 3d,target bow, most fat shafts are so overspined for 50-60# bows. Currently all my bows shoot so,so paper holes but bust nocks out to 40+.


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

Bowtek1 said:


> Personally I am considering stopping paper tuning, especially with a fall away. Currently walk back tune, and bh tune hunting bows. For 3d,target bow, most fat shafts are so overspined for 50-60# bows. Currently all my bows shoot so,so paper holes but bust nocks out to 40+.


Yep makes life easier when you figure that out, I quit a long time ago, I have buddies that try and tune their own stuff and they try paper after paper after paper, finally getting a bullethole just to have to move the rest to get their BH to tune/group right, lol, It just makes it alot easier to walkback then BH tune a hunting bow, If you get FP/BH hitting close or same and they all group good then what more would you want


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

I paper tune and have great results. I start out at 1 yard, then 2,3, ect. back to 12 yards. I shoot through the paper from left to right so that I can track each arrow and know what distance it was shot from. I get an overall picture of the arrow flight before making adjustments.

When it comes to broadheads, not all broadheads are created equal. I will shoot several different heads. Some broadheads just don't fly well. I am not going to jack with my rest when I can get a better flying broadhead.

Most people overlook or write off paper tuning as an unnecessary method or starting point. I have never had a bow that paper tuned that wouldn't group and shoot broadheads very well. Most of the people who blow off paper tuning can't do it.

Other tuning methods are productive as well. I prefer paper tuning and bareshaft tuning. Walkback tuning seems to be working for a lot of archers. Some just broadhead tune and have good luck. Some french tune. Some just eyeball it and say good enough.


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## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Paper tuning*



baldwin buck said:


> i have been having trouble paper tuning my z7. I have been shooting at a distance of 5-6 feet away from the paper. I am hearing more and more talk about paper tuning at 15+ feet to give these carbon arrows with newer higher energy bows a chance to stabilize.
> 
> Is this what everyone is experiencing or tuning at?
> 
> Thanks for the help


do not believe that at all. A lot of factors unfortunately! Make sure you have the right spine arrows. You should always paper tune a bow. Make sure your vanes are clearing your rest.stand 3to4 feet away,then back up 20 yds.if you have good form an release is good .that's what you strive for.how is your tiller,are your cams rotating the same.if you still have problems visit your local pro shop.its not overrated,it's just a little work.happy bullet hole!


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## bowhuntr311 (May 20, 2009)

fletched said:


> Most of the people who blow off paper tuning can't do it.


Wow thats a farely bold statement. Coming from a novice bow tuner I found papertuning to be the easiest method to do. I do have to agree with the statement about each method having its merits.

I have pretty much figured out Im getting some fletching contact on my new bow and I dont nocking point should be raised. Im going to basically start all over when I get home from my spring hunt next week.


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## Nitroboy (Jan 15, 2006)

fletched said:


> Most of the people who blow off paper tuning can't do it.


Yeah spoken like a true gent, I can papertune, I used to do it all the time til I figured out it doesn't have to be done to get a bow to shoot straight and group right, I tune alot of bows and none are papertuned anymore, I can bet you that they all will shoot with or shoot better than a bow that shoots a "perfect bullethole" in paper. Every bow that comes through my shop will group BH/FP the same POI out to 60-70yds and hold a tight group to boot, So I didn't blow it off cause I can't do it I just decided not to waste my time doing something that IMHO is a good waste of my time and a roll of butchers paper


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

I would reiterate my earlier post. Shooting and paper tuning a bareshaft between 3,8 & 12-15yds is a true test. It will not lie..whereas a vaned arrow will correct itself over the same length. Right or wrong I gather (for whatever reason) folks papertune with a fletched arrow..and wonder why they get conflicting info and can't adequately correct it (or don't know which way to move something...rest/sight,etc.). Again, a properly shot bareshaft at any distance cannot correct itself...if its left (or right) at 5yds, it'll only get worse as you move back (same for tail high or low). But what a bare shaft can do is help you with spine, bow timing/arrow nock and rest setting for your particular form. Not saying it'll work for everyone...but I will say that papertuning with a fletched shaft can drive you nuts and yield a different poi between BH and FP (even after good paper tuning results). Something I attribute to the online flurry, if not frantic cries for help a few weeks prior to each fall's hunting season.

In short, my experience in tuning with a bareshaft thru paper is that it is not for everyone, as you have to have consistency between shots..but not necessarily great form (as Bernie P. says, "you don't have to do it my way, you just have to do it the same way every time" - or something like that). At the very least I feel I've been fairly blessed with consistancy - but would probably get blasted on form, if I posted a picture . So I do bare shaft thru paper, I own 4 bows w/ the same cam system thanks to eBAY, 2 of those bows shot the same FP/BH poi out to 40yds under bareshaft papertuning. A third shoots BH 1 to 1-1/2" high (only high, its fine L/R) over the same distance and I'll be looking to correct that. As for the forth...don't know yet....but I bet its really close. In the end, it doesn't have anything to do with my results...its what works for me. I just feel that there is a big difference between what a bareshaft thru paper tells you than one that is fletched, especially over a distance. And, I might contend...folks get by paper tuning mysteries by walkback tuning.......


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## ButchrCrekHuntr (Mar 26, 2005)

bowhuntr311 said:


> So, I like the idea of bareshaft paper tuning. Does anyone else use this?


I do all my paper tuning with a bare shaft from 5 - 15 feet. If you can get a perfect bullet hole at those distances, a bare shaft, fletched arrow, and broadheads should all impact in the same place at 20 yards as long as you have good form with no hand torque/grip issues. I tried that at 30 yards today for the first time after reading that people could actually do that, and all three impacted in a 4 inch circle so that is good enough for me. 

I also do walk back tuning and group tuning but seldom have to make an adjustment when the paper tuning is done with a perfect bullet hole from a bare shaft out to 15 feet.

The Z7 is a very easy bow to tune. By adjusting the yoke, you can use any centershot you want from 11/16 to 13/16 of an inch. When paper tuning, if you get a left tear, just put a twist(s) in the left yoke to fix; and for a right tear you put the twists in the right side of the yoke.


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

Nitroboy said:


> Yeah spoken like a true gent, I can papertune, I used to do it all the time til I figured out it doesn't have to be done to get a bow to shoot straight and group right, I tune alot of bows and none are papertuned anymore, I can bet you that they all will shoot with or shoot better than a bow that shoots a "perfect bullethole" in paper. Every bow that comes through my shop will group BH/FP the same POI out to 60-70yds and hold a tight group to boot, So I didn't blow it off cause I can't do it I just decided not to waste my time doing something that IMHO is a good waste of my time and a roll of butchers paper


I never said that you can't paper tune. Like I said, there are other tuning methods that are effective.

Tuning a bow is only as effective as the one shooting it. Without proper form, the results will vary. 

People get the wrong impression about paper tuning. Just because they got a bullet hole at a certain distance doesn't mean it is paper tuned. Same applies to broadhead tuning. Just because a person got the field point and broadhead to hit the same hole at a certain distance doesn't mean it is broadhead tuned.

Paper tuning tells more about the bow, arrow and archer than any other tuning method. It can show the effects of every aspect of the shot. 

If someone has a grip issue, it will show up in paper tuning. It may not show up during walkback. It's hard for archers to correct problems they may not know they have.

You may have success with your tuning method and that's great but my statement that most blow paper tuning off because they can't do it is true.

As for me, I'll waste paper, it's better than wasting time.

It sounds like you walk back tune first, then you broadhead tune and adjust the rest so that the fp and bh hit the same spot. Does that mean walkback tuning is a waste of time?

What's the difference in paper tuning then fine tuning to match the flight characteristics of the broadhead?

I have papertuned and have shot some broadheads that would hit to the left. I would shot another brand of broadheads that would hit to the right. I would shoot another brand and have them hit in the same spot as my field points. Broadheads have a mind of their own. Some just don't fly good while others fly like field points. If I have my bow properly paper tuned, I will shoot a few different brand of broadheads and pick the ones that fly the best. I use magnus stinger 2 blade 100 grain heads because they have never failed to group with field points.I have other heads that do the same. I have some that don't fly or hit well and don't see the need in adjusting a perfectly tune bow when I have better options.


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## srgwheeler (Jan 9, 2010)

well said Fletched .i use papper tuning as a starting point first then walkback


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## srgwheeler (Jan 9, 2010)

but each to there own


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## SPIKER_67 (Nov 7, 2007)

Paper tuning can give you a good idea about the spine of your arrows, and how they will react when you get to the Broadhead tuning stage. It's always helped me when sizing arrows for a new rig.

I always follow up with walkback, then Broadhead tuning. Never a waste of time after a heart shot on opening day.:darkbeer:


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## WiregrassArcher (Feb 11, 2010)

*Laser, level, then paper verification*

I actually have markers on my range so I can paper tune from 6' to 10' (riser distance, not my distance). But honestly, when I set a bow up with a laser (right/left) and level (up/down) I usually only make extremely small adjustments, if any at all. The only time I get significant results is if the arrows are not spined correctly. Of course, a minute or two with TAPS and that's almost never an issue either.


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## kansahawghunter (Jan 4, 2009)

*Z-7 Issues*

I have a Z7 and tried to tune it for 5 months. I tried everything, changed rest, fletchings, grips and always got a left tear about 2 inches long. I also could never get broad heads to shoot right. (arrow always leaned fletchings left in the target) The bow shop even tried to lean the idler wheel. They leaned it so far that I was affraid the cable would walk off the side so they put it back. Nothing worked, so I am back to shooting my Switchback XT and I am going to set the Z-7 up for my daughter and give it to her. Good Luck.


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

We are all talking paper but I believe using the bare shaft reveals a lot more about what an arrow is doing after straightening from the “archer’s paradox”.
Ten yards is an excellent distance to begin.

If the target is level with the archer’s arm, the angle (or lack thereof) that the arrow stands out from the target shows which direction the arrow was traveling. Using no fletching removes the possibility of stabilization and, if anything, truly reveals the arrow’s flight characteristics.

When all of the adjustments have been made, the fletched arrows should strike exactly in the same place as the bare shafts. At 20 yards the groups will be smaller but in the same pattern and same group center.

I know it’s not the current rage but it has worked for me. After bare shaft adjusting, then fletching, when I added my fixed blade hunting tips (Magnus Stingers) I had to make zero adjustments.

Oh, and when I actually did shoot through the paper the holes were perfect. 
Maybe I just got lucky???


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## Nightimer (Jan 22, 2003)

I am a target archer so I shoot up to 100yards.
I shoot through paper to start with.
I draw and shoot with the arrow point about a yard from the paper.
I shoot fletched arrows.
All I want to know is what the arrow is doing the INSTANT its clear of the bow.
If its a bullet hole (or very close) I move on to stage 2.
Stage 2 is a walkback.
Stage 3 is group tuning at 80 yards.
VERY VERY small adjustments are made to nocking point/centre shot etc to improve (if possible) the group pattern.
These groups are plotted on a paper chart to get a true reading.
All this work is crucial for target archery because ANY bad arrow flight will be magnified at 100 yards.


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## Rosey Bull (Apr 5, 2010)

I like to get as cloce to the paper as I can. I like to see how the arrow reacts rite from the get go. Then I start stepn back tell I get to 25 feet


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## Dogz (Feb 15, 2010)

My bow was paper tuned by my proshop using 400 spine 28" arrows. I have recently switched to 340 spine 27" arrows do I need to get it paper tuned again with the new arrows? I am new to this sport and don't know how to tune!! Thanks,danny


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

Dogz said:


> My bow was paper tuned by my proshop using 400 spine 28" arrows. I have recently switched to 340 spine 27" arrows do I need to get it paper tuned again with the new arrows? I am new to this sport and don't know how to tune!! Thanks,danny


I doubt it changed anything in the tune of your bow. Just shoot it and see how it groups at different yardages. Don't get overwhelmed and start doubting your bow or yourself.


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

fletched said:


> I doubt it changed anything in the tune of your bow. Just shoot it and see how it groups at different yardages. Don't get overwhelmed and start doubting your bow or yourself.


I agree, the proof is in the paper. It may take two or three sessions before you settle down and begin to get truely objective results.
Take it easy and have fun!


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## wyoming4x4 (Mar 16, 2009)

*I agree 100%.*



fletched said:


> I never said that you can't paper tune. Like I said, there are other tuning methods that are effective.
> 
> Tuning a bow is only as effective as the one shooting it. Without proper form, the results will vary.
> 
> ...


 Since I don't have a slow motion camera in my back pocket. I use paper, its like takeing a picture of my arrow at different distances. A lot of the time it tells me about my form when its on and off. It shows me what happens when I don't push/pull correctly. papertune is a good tool. Sometimes your not gonna get a perfect papertune and you just have to find a good average on paper. Good place to start. Sometimes its a very tedious tuning process. Catch you later and have a great day.


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