# Vegas face target theory.



## 3Dfool (Jun 1, 2005)

I went to one of the Pacific Northwest Shootup Tour shoots and saw one of the top shooters doing something that made me start thinking. Instead of leaving the holes in the "x" as an aiming reference he was fixing all the holes, even the ones in the "x". I asked him about it and his theory is that always shooting at a "new" target will get you used to aiming at the center and not aiming for a hole, even if its centered hole. You will not always have a perfect hole so being able to aim for the center on every shot will make you a stronger aimer. He felt that having a hole is basically a "crutch". I tried it this weekend and it made a huge difference. I shot the best score I've ever shot. I just thought I would share this thought process with everyone and get their feeling on it.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I wouldn't fix the ones in the middle.....but if I get a funky hole or start to tend one way...for the bad I will change the target. I learned that from TheShooter :wink:

Most people won't do that though for one simple reason.....a lot of shooters are afraid of a clean target. 

I don't think most people really aim at the holes, I don't anyway. But you will aim at them subconsciously. Which is why you will be smoking on some faces and shoot one target like crap at times...if you have a bad hole. Just change the face.


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## Thermodude (Dec 15, 2011)

I do know that in 3D alot of times if you are second or third shooter......ect. subconsciously you tend to follow the arrow grouping, or at least I do. I have to block those arrows out as best I can and concentrate on another spot, or as close as possible.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

3Dfool said:


> I went to one of the Pacific Northwest Shootup Tour shoots and saw one of the top shooters doing something that made me start thinking. Instead of leaving the holes in the "x" as an aiming reference he was fixing all the holes, even the ones in the "x". I asked him about it and his theory is that always shooting at a "new" target will get you used to aiming at the center and not aiming for a hole, even if its centered hole. You will not always have a perfect hole so being able to aim for the center on every shot will make you a stronger aimer. He felt that having a hole is basically a "crutch". I tried it this weekend and it made a huge difference. I shot the best score I've ever shot. I just thought I would share this thought process with everyone and get their feeling on it.


I thought that this was common knowledge.  You Oregonians need to get out more


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

It's against the rules to "fix" your target at the LAS Classic; however, you are welcomed to put up a new target as often as you like.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

I don't think you're correct there anymore prag. I believe they did not allow target face repairs for 1 event and then quickly went back to allowing the archers to repair their arrow holes the next year as long as they do not hold up the shooting line to do so. Something about several hundreds of targets with only 3 arrow holes in them laying around.......

>>------->


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Might be the case, guess I'll find out for sure in a couple of weeks as I'm headed to the Classic for my 5th year in a row.



CHPro said:


> I don't think you're correct there anymore prag. I believe they did not allow target face repairs for 1 event and then quickly went back to allowing the archers to repair their arrow holes the next year as long as they do not hold up the shooting line to do so. Something about several hundreds of targets with only 3 arrow holes in them laying around.......
> 
> >>------->


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Hey prag, sorry if I misspoke. I was thinking of the Vegas Open. Vegas you can patch arrow holes, follows same rules as NFAA where the rule states you cannot enhance (interpretted to mean you can patch but not make the holes larger). I'm not sure what rules LAS uses. I was thinking LAS (Vegas) when I replied. Must have warmer weather thoughts on the brain (after shoveling +10" of heavy wet snow this afternoon), lol!

>>------->


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## seafaris (Jul 29, 2012)

In leagues is it common for shooters change their targets? For instance could you shoot 6 ends (ie 5 spot), and put up a fresh target? Thanks.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Yep you can do that...technically you can change your face whenever you like.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I heard from a pro how he practices and it made a ton of sence.

He aims at a clean target but his arrows impact much higher off the target face. He is looking for a one hole target grouping, while constantly staring at a clean face

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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

So after the 1st practice end a scoring end his during a shoot...his sight picture looks nothing like it does during practice. 

I think he may be leaving something out.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Brown Hornet said:


> So after the 1st practice end a scoring end his during a shoot...his sight picture looks nothing like it does during practice.
> 
> I think he may be leaving something out.


He states he uses this as a training aid for working on a clean target. Not focusing on holes, maybe shooting a big dot. Maybe thats why he always is fixing or changing targets.

Possibly so he can start by getting holes in tge right spot

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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

By fixing the holes while practicing or setting your sights so the arrow impacts outside of the target face the archer is getting himself VERY comfortable with shooting a "new" or clean target face. If you set your sight to say hit 3" high then you can practice aiming properly and executing your shot but you keep your aiming area free of visible aiming references (arrow holes).

The reason..... After a just a few ends you can see the holes and then you shoot MANY ends seeing these holes. So let's say you are shooting 10 ends twice a night 3 times a week for score. That is 180 arrows for score. Most all of those shots were at a target with visible holes in them. You become accustomed to seeing a nice hole to aim at. Sooooo, come tournament time in addition to dealing with "tournament nerves" you add to the anxiety on the first few ends because now you have nothing to aim at and you are conditioned to shooting at visible holes! Many folks hate (fear) shooting at new target faces and do nothing to reduce the fear that increases anxiety. 

Of course you do NOT want to make it so you are "uncomfortable" shooting a target face that has holes in it!

Basically, do not develop "crutches" because you can not always control the environment. 

- I have seen guys that get to league night early so they can get the same lane. Often the one facing a wall. They are not comfortable with archers on both sides of them. Consequently, at a tournament with assigned lanes that have to deal with the "oddity" of having an archer in front of them.
- Some archers HATE having a left handed archer in front of them. So if they do get a left handed archer in front of them they can't help but "think" about it. That can NOT help their ability to execute their best shots.
- Some archers practice heavily or shoot league starting on the top or bottom because of a preference to one or the other. Again this is a weakness in their game.
- Do not get overly accustomed to a quiet range OR a range with much back ground noise. You can never be sure what the range will be like when you are shooting the last ends of the state championship.
- Get accustomed to different lighting conditions. Ranges are not all lit alike.
- Some guys can't shoot with say a kids 10 yard target beside them.

SOooooooooooooo, shoot at different venues if you can or at the least in different lanes so you don't develop "issues" that may bite you in the butt at the worst time. If you _just_ want to shoot your personal best on league night then shoot the same lane every night, try to always start with a "used" target with good holes. Basically, manipulate the environment to your advantage......... Good luck with ever shooting your best score at a real tournament!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Kstigall said:


> By fixing the holes while practicing or setting your sights so the arrow impacts outside of the target face the archer is getting himself VERY comfortable with shooting a "new" or clean target face. If you set your sight to say hit 3" high then you can practice aiming properly and executing your shot but you keep your aiming area free of visible aiming references (arrow holes).
> 
> The reason..... After a just a few ends you can see the holes and then you shoot MANY ends seeing these holes. So let's say you are shooting 10 ends twice a night 3 times a week for score. That is 180 arrows for score. Most all of those shots were at a target with visible holes in them. You become accustomed to seeing a nice hole to aim at. Sooooo, come tournament time in addition to dealing with "tournament nerves" you add to the anxiety on the first few ends because now you have nothing to aim at and you are conditioned to shooting at visible holes! Many folks hate (fear) shooting at new target faces and do nothing to reduce the fear that increases anxiety.
> 
> ...


I had a 4 hour training today with the archer i mentioned amnd he spoke a lot of what you covered

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## wolfman_73 (Mar 7, 2005)

That's one thing I'm enjoying about our "shootup tour." We travel all over Oregon and Washington shooting different venues and it is an eye opener for sure. Never know what the conditions might be. 

Now if I can get the right amount of PI figured out.....


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

wolfman_73 said:


> That's one thing I'm enjoying about our "shootup tour." We travel all over Oregon and Washington shooting different venues and it is an eye opener for sure. Never know what the conditions might be.
> 
> Now if I can get the right amount of PI figured out.....


That's simple....just a good coating. It shouldn't be dripping or running of the bow. More like a misting....


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> By fixing the holes while practicing or setting your sights so the arrow impacts outside of the target face the archer is getting himself VERY comfortable with shooting a "new" or clean target face. If you set your sight to say hit 3" high then you can practice aiming properly and executing your shot but you keep your aiming area free of visible aiming references (arrow holes).
> 
> The reason..... After a just a few ends you can see the holes and then you shoot MANY ends seeing these holes. So let's say you are shooting 10 ends twice a night 3 times a week for score. That is 180 arrows for score. Most all of those shots were at a target with visible holes in them. You become accustomed to seeing a nice hole to aim at. Sooooo, come tournament time in addition to dealing with "tournament nerves" you add to the anxiety on the first few ends because now you have nothing to aim at and you are conditioned to shooting at visible holes! Many folks hate (fear) shooting at new target faces and do nothing to reduce the fear that increases anxiety.
> 
> ...


"ProActive Archery" at work and in practice...check it out, just google "ProActive Archery" and you'll find it. I cannot post the link here on AT without getting into trouble; again, just Google ProActive Archery.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

field14 said:


> "ProActive Archery" at work and in practice...check it out, just google "ProActive Archery" and you'll find it. I cannot post the link here on AT without getting into trouble; again, just Google ProActive Archery.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


Or simply go to Amazon and search for it :wink:

I just thought about it....I should have left you off the team and traded you a copy for a can of PI :chortle:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Or simply go to Amazon and search for it :wink:
> 
> I just thought about it....I should have left you off the team and traded you a copy for a can of PI :chortle:


Thought you said you'd already purchased a copy, Hornet? Or is you a PROcrastinator?


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

field14 said:


> Thought you said you'd already purchased a copy, Hornet? Or is you a PROcrastinator?


No I said I would have to pick one up.....I haven't done it yet. I am PRObroke lol


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Garceau said:


> I had a 4 hour training today with the archer i mentioned amnd he spoke a lot of what you covered
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


:wink: It's not rocket science........ Anything that you feel "hurts" your ability to shoot your best you work _aggressively _ in training sessions to "fix". 

I've been practicing at at a large sporting goods store (GreenTop). It has a nice indoor range (free). From little kids learning to x-bows shooters are shooting at the same time. It can be a little nerve racking and you do have to keep an eye on things BUT it helps with developing increased focus on the task at hand. I'll coach a 10 year old between ends and block out the sound of LOUD x-bows during a scoring game........ I'm hoping the sounds of a large tournament will be comfortable. I do need to find somewhere to practice where it is fairly quiet as I can see where I could become conditioned to where quietness during shooting may develop into a distraction.


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

Brown Hornet said:


> Or simply go to Amazon and search for it :wink:


Kindle please!


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## Stubby'smom (Mar 20, 2010)

I guess I never thought about what you people here are saying about the holes or a clean face. I have been fixing holes that are off and leaving the ones in the x for a couple years now. I honestly don't feel like a clean face bothers me and I ususally switch it out half way through when we switch bottom and top. I didn't know you could do that more often. I like to practice in different situations too. Sometimes I just like perfectly quiet and other times I practice with alot of noise, music or my girls who are 5 and 7 and very bubbly. I've been told if I can concentrate with the little ones around, I can focus through anything! My coach also likes to get in my face and try to distract me while I am shooting. He just stands there while I am at full draw and he'll be inches from my face, facing me like a lefty would.


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