# Lefts/rights on hills??



## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Check your site again.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

TNMAN said:


> Check your site again.


I plan to do that, but at this point I am convinced it is something in my form.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

It's you. 

You set your sight on Saturday night.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Moparmatty said:


> It's you.
> 
> You set your sight on Saturday night.


As I said, I am convinced it is me too. That being said, now I need to figure out what I am doing and how to fix it.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Bend at the waist, just like in a treestand. 

Don't lift, or drop the bow to the target with your bow arm.

I had very few issues missing left/right this weekend. So many of my misses were straight out of the top that the group I was shooting with started calling me "out the top". Sight tape was dead on between 80, and 50, but marks were all tall from 40, and shorter.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

golfingguy27 said:


> As I said, I am convinced it is me too. That being said, now I need to figure out what I am doing and how to fix it.


Good quality practice. You also need to need to be bale to call each and every shot you make before you at them through the binos. 

You don't live that far from the Hill. Go there and practice once and a while or a couple times a month.


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## SCarson (Apr 13, 2008)

I agree with 2005UltraMag as a potential issue. I have the same problem on a few targets if I don't make the effort to make sure it "feels" right.

I'll also go with an often claimed "that's never a problem for me"....watch your bubble, especially on the side hill shots. There are a couple of bunny targets around here that I have to make sure the bubble is centered otherwise the shots go left or right.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Moparmatty said:


> Good quality practice. You also need to need to be bale to call each and every shot you make before you at them through the binos.
> 
> You don't live that far from the Hill. Go there and practice once and a while or a couple times a month.


That is actually one thing I have noticed a big change in this year over last. Probably 90% of the time I can call the arrow before I look at it. There are still a few surprises, but generally I know where it is headed. As far as practicing on the hill, that sounds like a good idea, but it is still a bit of a hike. Maybe if I could drag a few people along with me for a fun round or meet up with some Cumberland shooters every once in a while...


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

3rd axis leveling is more than likely out of whack. It is especially critical if your sight pin isn't centered with your arrow shaft after tuning & sighting in are complete.

Could be lack of caffeine as well. :becky:


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

mag41vance said:


> 3rd axis leveling is more than likely out of whack. It is especially critical if your sight pin isn't centered with your arrow shaft after tuning & sighting in are complete.
> 
> Could be lack of caffeine as well. :becky:


As mentioned before, I checked my 2nd and 3rd axis Saturday night before my round on Sunday and had the same results. I'm almosy positive it is me.


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

2005Ultramag said:


> Bend at the waist, just like in a treestand.
> 
> Don't lift, or drop the bow to the target with your bow arm.
> 
> I had very few issues missing left/right this weekend. So many of my misses were straight out of the top that the group I was shooting with started calling me "out the top". Sight tape was dead on between 80, and 50, but marks were all tall from 40, and shorter.


Actually bending at the waste isn't the way. I bet the person you shot with on Sunday that shot a 556 wasn't bending at the waste. Actually I know he wasn't because I watched him shoot. 

Look up the video of Cousins shooting in the Europe on YouTube. One of the videos is of him shooting a downhill target with a pretty big cut, bigger then anything on the Hill other the maybe the 1st shot on the 80 on the back. 

I used to bend at the waist until I talked to a guy that had won silver bowls before and really adapted how I approach up and downhill shots. I work less not bending and drawing on target and do much better. 

Of course you have to bend a little to get the final adjustment to aim but very little. 

Golfinguy you just need to do what Matty told you and work on your form and become more consistent with it. From talking to him I am pretty sure the courses you shoot on are far more hilly and what not then anything he shoots. I would be listening to the guy that shot in the 545+ range not the guy that shot with you not the person trying to figure things out and shooting lower scores then you.


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

mag41vance said:


> 3rd axis leveling is more than likely out of whack. It is especially critical if your sight pin isn't centered with your arrow shaft after tuning & sighting in are complete.
> 
> Could be lack of caffeine as well. :becky:


His sight isn't the issue I helped him level his sight Sat after he had issues during the round Sat. It was off when he came off the course Sat. Unless he did something crazy wrong to it after I left him alone with it the sight was level when he started shooting on Sun.


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## proelite06 (Feb 9, 2011)

1st axis? anybody? Was this skipped?? I could be talking out my rear end here but isn't this the first step in leveling the sight? The bar, The vertical bar itself? Then step #2 the scope with sight or bow on a level plane. Then # 3 The 3rd axis, the scope in or out (I am not refering to the extension here either) slightly depending on what adjustment you have and what sight you are using with the sight or bow pointed steeply up or down....................I'm just spitballin here.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

proelite06 said:


> 1st axis? anybody? Was this skipped?? I could be talking out my rear end here but isn't this the first step in leveling the sight? The bar, The vertical bar itself? Then step #2 the scope with sight or bow on a level plane. Then # 3 The 3rd axis, the scope in or out (I am not refering to the extension here either) slightly depending on what adjustment you have and what sight you are using with the sight or bow pointed steeply up or down....................I'm just spitballin here.


All three axis are level. Even if the 1st axis was off, it would make me cant the bow to the same side all of the time regardless of uphill or downhill. I am shooting right downhill and left uphill.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Let's see if I get this right, when shooting a sharp downhill shot, your DL is perceived by your bod as being longer and just the opposite for uphill shots. If you get weak on the shot and make a minor adjustment based on this perception when shooting elevations, this will make you shoot left for downhill and right for uphill. Gotta be strong and uber consistent-- No, my scores aren't yet in the 545+ range, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express..... :wink:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

I was following along and agreeing fully with your post, UNTIL you threw in the word "uber". :wink:



montigre said:


> Let's see if I get this right, when shooting a sharp downhill shot, your DL is perceived by your bod as being longer and just the opposite for uphill shots. If you get weak on the shot and make a minor adjustment based on this perception when shooting elevations, this will make you shoot left for downhill and right for uphill. Gotta be strong and uber consistent-- No, my scores aren't yet in the 545+ range, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express..... :wink:


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Regardless of whether it is you or the site, if you swing the site ring back toward you a bit, you will pick up some of the points you were losing. Anyway, I am always more willing to believe it's the equipment rather than me. :wink:


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

Most people have problems too.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Did you check the 3rd axis at full draw what kind of sight do you use


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

redman said:


> Did you check the 3rd axis at full draw what kind of sight do you use


When I first set the bow up for this year, I set my Axcel 3000 sight at full draw with my Hamskea sight leveler. When I noticed issues this weekend I used a buddy's sight leveler similar to the brite sight leveler. Most people I have talked to don't fully buy into the idea of the level needing to be set at full draw, but I suppose it can't hurt. I have been busy since I got back from the shoot, so I haven't gotten to check to see what my Hamskea leveler says compared to my buddy's. I am still pretty much convinced it is operator error at this point, as much as I hate to admit it.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

I set my Axcel up at full draw with my Sureloc leveler. :wink:


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Kade said:


> Actually bending at the waste isn't the way. I bet the person you shot with on Sunday that shot a 556 wasn't bending at the waste. Actually I know he wasn't because I watched him shoot.
> 
> Look up the video of Cousins shooting in the Europe on YouTube. One of the videos is of him shooting a downhill target with a pretty big cut, bigger then anything on the Hill other the maybe the 1st shot on the 80 on the back.
> 
> ...


I bend at the waste because that's how I learned to shoot angles in hunting, and 3-D. When I do that I'm alot better than when i don't do that because it maintains the anchor points. Just like I made quite a point of saying last year, everybody has different things that work well for them, and the same thing may not work for someone else. 
My suggestion was just that... a suggestion... something to try. certainly not a sure fix, because I've been through a TON of things that were supposed to be sure fixes for me that were generally non-starters.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Had a similar issue myself, found it to be front shoulder position. On the uphill shots the front shoulder was not staying down and forward but was riding back and up causing right poi. On the downhills I was pushing harder with the front side and getting left poi. Down and forward keeps me down the middle.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Is your DL correct? This will affect your form then my next would have to be sight leveling.


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## Doeslayer13 (Apr 27, 2010)

> I bend at the waste because that's how I learned to shoot angles in hunting, and 3-D. When I do that I'm alot better than when i don't do that because it maintains the anchor points. Just like I made quite a point of saying last year, everybody has different things that work well for them, and the same thing may not work for someone else.
> My suggestion was just that... a suggestion... something to try. certainly not a sure fix, because I've been through a TON of things that were supposed to be sure fixes for me that were generally non-starters.


Yup, always bend at the waist, Ik to many people who just try to lean instead of bend.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Rattleman said:


> Is your DL correct? This will affect your form then my next would have to be sight leveling.


Feels pretty good to me. Hornet set it back up for me this weekend in Cumberland because I had the cam rotation all out of whack, but it feels comfortable to me. I haven't taken a picture of myself recently to see what it looks like, but it feels good.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Doeslayer13 said:


> Yup, always bend at the waist, Ik to many people who just try to lean instead of bend.


As Kade pointed out, there are very good shooters who don't.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

One thing I have noticed in archery. There are only a few very basic things that are absolute fact that HAVE to be done in order to make a good shot. As much as some people talk like their way is the only way that will work, in most cases it isn't. What it all comes down to is making your shot repeatable, and what works for one person, may or may not work for another. Another thing that I have noticed, is that the people who have gotten past the stage that I am at, where I am still finding out what does and does not work for me, tend to forget how hard and frustrating it can be. If I had a quarter for every time I have heard "you just need to make your same shot regardless of the footing or target location" I would be rich. I was told that shooting on a hill is the same as shooting on flat ground. Obviously for me it isn't. I can twenty a flat 20 yarder all day long. Put it on a 15 degree hill and the chances go down significantly. So while I agree that working on perfecting ym form on flat ground will help, I think I also need to spend some time shooting on the hills (which means traveling just to practice since my club's course has no significant hills), and figure out what is causing the lefts/rights and eliminate it.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

golfingguy27 said:


> One thing I have noticed in archery. There are only a few very basic things that are absolute fact that HAVE to be done in order to make a good shot. As much as some people talk like their way is the only way that will work, in most cases it isn't. What it all comes down to is making your shot repeatable, and what works for one person, may or may not work for another. Another thing that I have noticed, is that the people who have gotten past the stage that I am at, where I am still finding out what does and does not work for me, tend to forget how hard and frustrating it can be. If I had a quarter for every time I have heard "you just need to make your same shot regardless of the footing or target location" I would be rich. I was told that shooting on a hill is the same as shooting on flat ground. Obviously for me it isn't. I can twenty a flat 20 yarder all day long. Put it on a 15 degree hill and the chances go down significantly. So while I agree that working on perfecting ym form on flat ground will help, I think I also need to spend some time shooting on the hills (which means traveling just to practice since my club's course has no significant hills), and figure out what is causing the lefts/rights and eliminate it.


Ummmmmm ............... yup.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Like I told you on the weekend. I only practice on flat ground at 50y cause that's all I have to work with. The only time I shoot any real up and down hill shots is on "The Hill". 

Before shooting a 545 and a 546 last year on "The Hill", my highest ever score was a 534. 

Practice is all it takes. As well as well setup equipment.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

I check the 3rd axis at full draw with my Hamskea sight leveler and have my long rod on bow and my side rod on bow. Check the 3rd with out stabilizer on bow and you will see that the 3rd axis will read different .The axcell sight has a great 3rd axis .


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

redman said:


> I check the 3rd axis at full draw with my Hamskea sight leveler and have my long rod on bow and my side rod on bow. Check the 3rd with out stabilizer on bow and you will see that the 3rd axis will read different .The axcell sight has a great 3rd axis .


Not saying I don't believe what you are saying, but I don't see how having the rods on the bow should make a difference. Basically you are checking the geometry of the bow when you check with the Hamskea (how I check it too), and the bow geometry isn't going to change with or without a bar. if you line the pins up on the Hamskea with your plumb bob , it shouldn't matter if you have stabs on or not. Am I missing something?


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

golfingguy27 said:


> Not saying I don't believe what you are saying, but I don't see how having the rods on the bow should make a difference. Basically you are checking the geometry of the bow when you check with the Hamskea (how I check it too), and the bow geometry isn't going to change with or without a bar. if you line the pins up on the Hamskea with your plumb bob , it shouldn't matter if you have stabs on or not. Am I missing something?


There's lots of things that don't make sense to you. 

I don't check my timing without my rods on my bow. Heck if you shoot through paper with and then without your rods you will get or can get a different tear. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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