# New sight for a new recurve bow.



## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

The Shibuya Ultima is largely considered to be one of the best sights if not the best sight on the market right now for recurve sights. Very well designed and assembled sight.


Here are my top 5 based on my biased opinion from shooting them (am not paid by any of these companies).

1. Shibuya Ultima
2. Sure-loc Quest X
3. Axcel Achieve RX or 4500
4. Sure-loc Contender X or Shibuya Dual Click
5. Davis System


This is a very general but closely ranked top 5 for me. Nothing against the Davis, i based its position on its weight mostly as I like a lighter sight system so i can distribute balanced weight better throughout the rig without having to compensate for a heavy sight. All of these sights above will perform very well, these are just how I prefer to rank them.


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi baller,

Nice to meet you and thanks for your information. I was looking more to the Shibuya however just like every product you hear about . I decided t get some feedback for a better final decision on my investment. Which Shibuya model would you consider for a recurve competition bow?

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

astro2013 said:


> Hi baller,
> 
> Nice to meet you and thanks for your information. I was looking more to the Shibuya however just like every product you hear about . I decided t get some feedback for a better final decision on my investment. Which Shibuya model would you consider for a recurve competition bow?
> 
> ...


They are all well made. The Shibuya I use is the Ultima Carbon RC. I prefer the sight block on the Ultima sight over the dual click, but the dual click is also a very good sight. So you in theory have 4 options with Shibuya.

Dual-Click (aluminum extension)
Ultima (aluminum extension)
Dual-Click (carbon extension)
Ultima (Carbon extension)

I chose the Ultima Carbon for its weight properties, the front block design, and the vibration damping of the carbon extension.


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi baller,

OK,I understand more now and I appreciate your information. I will take a closer look at their web site.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

Astro, a little over a week ago, I purchased the Shibuya Ultima after handling both the Dual Click and the Sure-Loc Contender X. I really like it so far. Very easy to set up and very stable during the shot sequence. IMHO, well worth the money. Regards, Larry T.


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## Mormegil (Jan 26, 2012)

A while back I bought a shibuya cpx (compound sight), put a titan recurve scope on it and I've been using it as my recurve sight. My biggest problem with it has been that I now like it so much more than the cbe tek target I have on my compound that I'm going to end up buying another one.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i have been using the same sure-loc supreme sight for 10 years now and it is excellent..

it is a compound sight but can easily be adapted for recurve by replacing the aperture holder...

the biggest advantage vs the shibuya is the aperture holder is easily replaced if you like to experiment with different apertures(i do) and they only cost about $20 vs $100+ for the shibuya version..

it IS slightly heavier than it's recurve counterpart but i use lightweight risers anyway(X-factors) so it'd not a big deal for me..

they are also built sturdier than the recurve version(quest-X) and should also last longer..


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi Larry Tom,

Ok, Great on your comments. I am checking more on the Shibuya sight. I appreciate your information.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi Mormeqil,

I appreciate your opinion and Yes I can understand you wanting to buy two. I will keep your information for my final consideration and I believe it will be a Shibuya Ultima sight indeed.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi jmvargas, 

I appreciate your information on the Sure-Loc.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

I suppose that really the main difference is simply the quality of materials?

I recently got a used Ultima RC standard and other than being lighter than my Decut ( x-spot ) sight Im not even sure what it is that I should look for to compare the two. 

they both have smooth adjustments, either of them has any problems coming loose... So really what is it that someone should look for in a sight?


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## Jeb-D. (Sep 21, 2011)

^Bling factor. 

In all seriousness, it's probably quality of material and tighter machine tolarances. The budget sights (even the functional non-rattle loose ones) I've handled have sloppy machine tolarances. Sight block assembly wiggles, takes 2 clicks before it starts moving in one direction, or 4 clicks before it starts to move when changing direction, ect. I'd expcect there to be no slop in a higher priced sight. This probably doesn't matter to a lot of us, but for the guys putting them in the gold at 70m I imagine a little sight pin wiggle will hinder accuracy.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Jeb-D. said:


> ^Bling factor.
> 
> In all seriousness, it's probably quality of material and tighter machine tolarances. The budget sights (even the functional non-rattle loose ones) I've handled have sloppy machine tolarances. Sight block assembly wiggles, takes 2 clicks before it starts moving in one direction, or 4 clicks before it starts to move when changing direction, ect. I'd expcect it to be better with a higher priced sight. This probably doesn't matter to a lot of us, but for the guys putting them in the gold at 70m I imagine a little sight pin wiggle will hinder accuracy.


yea - see my x- spot is pretty rock solid and doesn't have any problems you mentioned. 

Having a hard time trying to decided to sell my ultima or keep it.


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## davemmevad (Apr 11, 2012)

Okay, I'll add my 2 cents worth ... since for once it might be worth about that much 

You are getting a new bow, but you don't say what bow you are coming from, and more importantly how much your old kit weighs - if you haven't experimented, you should before making an expensive decision. 

I say this from personal experience - my current kit is about the max I can shoot comfortably, and after 18 months, I still have to remember to remove my watch when I shoot for score as the extra 4.5 ounces will cost me about a point per arrow over 72 arrows. (It's a Seiko Dive watch with metal band - way cool, have had it for years, but.... HEAVY). I've tried strength training, etc, but I just shoot better with a light weight kit. As a result, I use a Shibuya Dual Click, and will be moving to a Dual Click Carbon on my next bow. I like the Ultima more, but it weighs more and I'd rather have that extra ounce or two (or more compared to a SureLoc) out on a stabilizer than on the sight.

Cheers and straight arrows!
David


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Jeb-D. said:


> but for the guys putting them in the gold at 70m I imagine a little sight pin wiggle will hinder accuracy.


It's really about ease of adjustment, no movement after the shot. (vibration) and not having to check the sight every other shot to make sure the screws are not coming loose. If you are having that much wiggle while aiming, you have more problems than a quality sight. 

While it's been a long time since I could brag that I was consistently putting them in the gold at 70M, as long as that Cartel Supersight is not moving upon each shot, It really doesn't wiggle enough during the actual shot to put you outside the red. It does wiggle if I shake enough but like I said, If I'm shaking that much, I have a lot bigger fish to fry than if my sight bar is not rigid enough.


I do have to check all the screws and knobs about every 2-3 shots or it will go somewhere. and adjustments are a pain. trying to go "one-two clicks" elevation would be a joke.

But once it's set and I am keeping it from wiggling loose, the plastic cartel supersight will put the arrows in the same place. 

I would recommend you get a quality sight for the reasons I outline above but now it's even more about you. No blaming that piece of gear.. (that's a good thing)


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hello Dacer, Jeb-D, davemmevad, and dchan,

Your comments have great information as I take a final decision in which sight I will invest for my recurve bow (Hoyt Formula ION-X with Formula Carbon F7 limbs) I am leaning towards the Shibuya Ultima Carbon. many things to think about like weight, vibration, checking after so many shots etc.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi Baller,

I have decided to go with the Shibuya sight however, still a little confuse. Can you elaborate in your opinion the difference between the Ultima Carbon RC and the Dual click Carbon? I notice that the Ultima RC Cabon weight is at 7.68 oz and the Dual Click Carbon at 6.73 oz. I am leaning more to the Ultima Carbon RC however like anything else want to make my final decision based on users and their comments. I will be using this on a Hoyt Formula ION-X recurve bow and of course for Target competition, and anyone else that wants to jump in on this questions feel free to do so.

Thanks,

astro2013


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

astro2013 said:


> Hi Baller,
> 
> I have decided to go with the Shibuya sight however, still a little confuse. Can you elaborate in your opinion the difference between the Ultima Carbon RC and the Dual click Carbon? I notice that the Ultima RC Cabon weight is at 7.68 oz and the Dual Click Carbon at 6.73 oz.
> astro2013


The Dual Click (carbon or standard) uses a locking nut to secure the elevation adjustment. The Ultima (carbon or standard) employs no locking knobs - the mechanism is designed so it doesn't need it! With an Ultima you won't ever forget to tighten a locking knob because they simply aren't there. The Ultima's aperture block is also made of aluminum while the Dual Click's aperture block is polycarbonate plastic. If you can afford it, the Ultima is the better sight, although the Dual Click is very good as well. Having said that, the Win&Win WS-600 is what I went with. The WS-600 has a mechanism similar to the Dual Click but uses all aluminum on the aperture block. I like it very much and the price sits somewhere in between a Dual Click standard and a Dual Click carbon.

Good luck!

-Kent W.


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## nifty (Jun 21, 2009)

I have used both, and strongly recommend the Ultima over the dual click. As mentioned above the dual click uses a locking screw to secure the sight in place, the ultima doesn't. Micro adjustment on the ultima is a lot finer and more positive. There are less things to vibrate loose on the ultima. The weight difference between the 2 isn't noticible when on the bow. That's my 2 cents anyway.

Nifty

Reaching for the Sky... Not the Hoyt....


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi williamskg6,

Nice to meet and thanks for your response. OK, I understand now what the difference is and have a clear picture on the difference. So you finally went with a Win&Win WS-600 instead. I can relate to this as well. I guess in the long run just like with digital cameras that as long as you stay with the top brands you will be fine because they have be proven they work good. I appreciate your information and have a great labor day holiday.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi nifty,

Nice to meet you and your comments are very well received indeed. Yes, I now have the last piece of information to just go with the Shibuya Ultima RC Carbon for my recurve bow. I really appreciate your information and wish you and family a great Labor day holiday.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

astro2013 said:


> Hi williamskg6,
> 
> Nice to meet and thanks for your response. OK, I understand now what the difference is and have a clear picture on the difference. So you finally went with a Win&Win WS-600 instead. I can relate to this as well. I guess in the long run just like with digital cameras that as long as you stay with the top brands you will be fine because they have be proven they work good. I appreciate your information and have a great labor day holiday.
> 
> ...


If you're curious on what the WS-600 looks like, here's an album with photos of my WS-600. 

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/107210563895402375688/albums/5813028143917999489

You can special order them from Lancaster for around $200. I think they're worth considering, since they offer essentially the same as a Dual-Click carbon but with an aluminum aperture block for a little less money. Also, with the Win&Win sight, the mounting block that goes on your bow is much more convenient than those on the Shibuya aluminum extension "Standard" sights. My daughter has a Shibuya Ultima RC and the knob has to be removed completely to take the sight off the bow. I can't tell you how many times that knob has been dropped and how many dents I've removed from that knob. The sight mounting block on the Win&Win has positive-click detents as well, so even if you loosen the knob, the sight won't just fall out of the mounting block. I think the mounting block on the carbon Shibuyas is different than those on the "Standard" aluminum ones, so perhaps you get a nicer mounting block when you spend the extra money on carbon Shibuyas. (I only have access to the standard aluminum ones.)

Good luck with you sight hunting. It's a fun process but it's always a little scary putting down that kind of money for something when you don't quite know if it will suit you personally.

-Kent W.


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi williamskg6,

OK, on your information and I am looking very closely on the pics of your Win&Win WS600 sight. Very interesting indeed. I will have to think about this before I invest. I appreciate your information on the block with your daughters experience I believe this part is very important. Thanks again for sharing these photos with me.

Thanks,
Astro2013.


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi williamskg6,

I have two questions:

1. How good are the adjustment increments on your WS 600 compared to the Shibuya Ultima RC?
2. How do you compare the vibration of the WS 600 to the Shibuya Ultima RC in your opinion?

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

The adjustment increments on the WS-600 are comparable to the Ultima RC in my opinion. They are very very fine. I do like the Shibuya adjustment knobs because they even include what direction to turn to get the desired adjustment, where you just have to try to remember on the Win&Win. 

The vibration of my WS-600 is noticeably less, but not by a lot - probably because of the carbon extension. Neither of these sights vibrate much. 

Just to clarify, there is no locking nut on the WS-600's windage block - you just adjust it as needed and it stays put. The only locking knob on the WS-600 is for the elevation adjustment.

As I said, the Ultima has the advantage in that it does not employ locking knobs. If I've had any issue with my WS-600 it's because I forgot to tighten the elevation locking nut, and even then it didn't move at all after 2 hours of shooting. I find that I usually notice that I forgot because the loose knob vibrates a tiny bit and I can hear it.

The machining on my WS-600 is clearly high quality, probably even a small step better in finish quality than the Shibuya. I don't think you would be disappointed with either sight - they're both great. Maybe I should put some markings on my WS-600's windage adjustment knob so I can stop being jealous of my daughter's Ultima knobs...

-Kent W.


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## Secant (Mar 29, 2013)

I have the same set up you are talking about with an Ultima Carbon RC on it and the sight is money. I have a Fivics sight and an old don't remember and I'll be honest that they shoot just about as well when adjusted and tight on lock down bolts, but they loosen up after a few shots and adjustments are not as easy or quick or accurate. The Ultima is rock solid and smooth as butter to adjust (except my idea of "in" and "out" is opposite the Koreans apparently). The Shibuya I have came with a fiber optic sight ring and would advise you get a few extra fiber optic wires as they break real easy (only $5 or so per 3). Also, I was patient and got in second hand for half price but was still brand new, making the cost not be the determining factor.


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi williamskg6,

Ok, I understand and looks like I will take everything into consideration, and I appreciate your information.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi Secant,

Yes, I am thinking on the Shibuya Ultima RC very much indeed I am sure I cannot go wrong with this sight. I appreciate your information.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## jeffrop (Apr 24, 2010)

Astro
FWIW, my Davis system with 8" extension, 5" sight cage, Beiter aperture and 2 small Limbsavers weighs 9 3/8 oz on my incredibly accurate kitchen scale  Heavier than the others by a few ounces but figure you add weight to stabs so the effect is likely negligible. 

I have had zero issues with the Davis in 2+ years of shooting, quality and workmanship is excellent, pricepoint more than competitive and Brian was a pleasure to deal with when ordering.

I noticed you are from ATL-hope to see you at Kennesaw Archery sometime!


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi jeffrob,

Nice to meet you and Yes I am in the south side of Atlanta. I met several members from the KAC and saw some of their equipment. When it comes to sights on a bow in the archery world, to me this is like the gun world on scopes or iron sights for an AR 15 platform rifle. Before I invest in a sight I want to see in person if I can, talk to people on their take and ask many questions. This is why I'm doing as much as research as I can now. Another part of this is how good of customer service will I receive after I invest in the product if I have any issues etc.. Yes. I saw someone with a Davis system and I have gotten very good information on this site to confirm my findings on the different sights. From Axcel, Advantage, Shibuya, Davis, and Win&Win WS 600. all seem to be great, and in about 14 more days I have to made a decision and go ahead and invest in one. AsI see it so far The Shibuya seems to be a good choice, and just my opinion. I appreciate your input on this which also has very good points to think about. Very great group at the KAC. I plan t join them soon.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## bcgilliam (Mar 8, 2013)

Astro,

The popular sight right now at our club is the Axcel Achieve series. The other popular sight is the Shibuya Ultima RC. Both are quality sights that are light and very easy to adjust. I believe the Axcel is US made, while the Shibuya is imported through Lancaster (distributor).

Brien

Hoyt Formula Ion-X, Hoyt F7 Limbs, Fuse Blade Stabilizers, Beiter Plunger, W&W Carbon Clicker, Shibuya Ultima rest, Shibuya Ultima RC sight.


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi Brien,

I saw the Axcel ad looks great and I appreciate your information. At this moment I am really looking at the Shibuya even doe imported still I believe I cannot go wrong and its well known as well. I see your equipment looks almost like what I have plan for as my equipment.

Hoyt Formula Ion-X, Hoyt Formula Carbon 720 Limbs, B Stinger Stabilizers, Beiter Plunger, AAE Adjustable Magnetic Clicker, Ultra Arrow rest Spigarelli ZT, and Shibuya Ultima RC sight.


I plan on going to the Nationals in Conyers, Ga. on Sept 21, 2013 and take some photos. I want to get familiar with equipment meet as many people as possible, and learn.


Thanks,
Astro2013


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## bcgilliam (Mar 8, 2013)

Astro,

We will be at Conyers as well. The recurve archers from our club that are shooting in Conyers use the Shibuya Ultima. There may be a one JOAD Bowman going that has the Axcel RX on an Ion-X. If you want to look at the Axcel sight, GRIV at ALC (Snellville) sells them, as well as the Shibuya. Give him a call to see what he has in stock. The ALC phone # is 678-344-0035. 

If I had to choose today, I'm not sure which one I would go with. I like the Shibuya, but I like that fact that the Axcel is made in the USA.

FYI : Brady Ellison, Jake Kaminski , Jacob Wukie, Khatuna Lorig, Miranda Leek, and Michelle Gilbert use the Axcel.


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi bcgilliam,

Ok I will check ALC on the both sights and I might stop by and take a look. In reference to archers Brady Ellison, Jake Kaminski, I was under the thoughts that they used Shibuya Ultima. You mentioned that the archers from your club, so I take it you are referring to the KAC is this correct? Who are they as far as names? so I can meet them see what they have and talk with them if this is possible? 

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## bcgilliam (Mar 8, 2013)

Astro,

My older son is on the Hornets JOAD team from GRIV's Archery Learning Center. Most of the Cadet and Cub Hornets use the Shibuya Ultima. Hornets that are now moving to a quality sight are getting the Axcel Achieve RX. 

The turnout for Conyers will probably be light from our club, especially the compound guys. We have already competed in the GA state outdoor and EJN tournaments. My older son will be there since he want to shoot a full FITA outdoor event; he has the Shibuya. My younger son (compound bowman) is just coming up to speed on indoor. We went ahead an invested in a quality sight for him; an Axcel Achieve CXL and X31 scope. 

I don't believe you can go wrong with either sight. Both are high quality sights that are very light. The Axcel is advertised to be lighter. BTW, GRIV is a staff shooter for Axcel/TRU Ball.

As for Brady and Jake, they both had the Axcel at Nationals. 

Brien


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi bcgilliam,

I called the ALC and they put me in contact with the recurve guy however, he was having confusion on the Axcel models on sights for recurve. He did not have a Axcel RX or RXL even due he said he had a Shibuya. So instead of driving just to look at what he has?? I will just go on images for the Achieve RXL recurve sight and see what shows up in Conyers on the 21st of this month. I did see a couple of minutes ago that Brady Ellison does use one. I will be looking out for your son's at the event ask questions on their equipment and if you will be there as well.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey Astro take a look at the DS Advantage sight it is the best sight out there, as I have shot targets since 67 & have shot all of them & the DS Advantage beets them hands down. Good luck.


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi kballer1

Yes, I have seen the sight and really looks great. They sent me some pics and was studying them very carefully. With all the information I have gathered I will make a final decision by next week. I appreciate your information.

Thanks,

Astro2013


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## bcgilliam (Mar 8, 2013)

Astro,

We have a few archers planning to compete at Conyers. Most of them have the Shibuya, but one of them has the Axcel Achieve. At the archery workshop in Newberry this past weekend, Khatuna was using an Axcel on an HPX riser. See you at Conyers.

bcgilliam


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi bcqilliam,

Tats great, I will be there speaking to Dave, Jim, Philip and some others finishing my research. I will seek Khatuna and take a look at his Axcel. I will try to meet you there as well.

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## bcgilliam (Mar 8, 2013)

Khatuna Lorig will probably not at Conyers. She is in Chula Vista, CA training for Antalya/Worlds. My son attended her workshop in Newberry, FL this past weekend; a really neat experience. I believe GRIV is looking into scheduling her for a weekend workshop in November if there is enough interest.

bcgilliam


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi bcgilliam,

I have a question for you, Where do I find information on up coming workshop schedules?

Thanks,
Astro2013


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## bcgilliam (Mar 8, 2013)

GRIV is in the process of scheduling Khatuna the weekend of November 23 and 24 I believe. For more information (cost/schedule/etc), you will need to call the ALC and ask to speak with George Jr. If you go to the "Team Lorig" facebook page, you will see posts/photos from previous workshops.

bcgilliam


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## astro2013 (Aug 26, 2013)

astro2013 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am investing in a new sight for a new Hoyt Recurve Formula ION-X with Formula Carbon F7 Limbs. I have nor decided on the sight system yet. I have three sights in mind, and they are: Shibuya, The System by Brian Davis, and Axcel AX4500 with damper. This will be for target competition. Any suggestions on this or comments?, I would appreciate any feedback.
> 
> ...


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hi Everyone,

I want to thank everyone for there great opinions, and sugestions on the different sights. I made the final decision and ordered the Axcel Achieve RXL sight. I appreciate everyones help on this.











Thanks,
Astro2013


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## bcgilliam (Mar 8, 2013)

That's a great sight. I'm interested in seeing the 2014 carbon (extension) version of this sight. 

-bcgilliam


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