# American archery 4 wheeler



## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Bump.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Bump


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## Cold Weather (Dec 17, 2008)

looks kewl PSE had a similar looking bow called the Profiency. I never followed American. In that era a die hard Jennings fan, but I did like PSE as well


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

I don't remember PSE having a 4 wheeler with limb brackets, from what I remember all there 4 wheelers had split limbs & that there 2 wheelers had brackets. The first 2 wheel split limb bows were the Astro bows 2 wheel Regency which took first place in a lot of major tournaments with there great feleing small comfort handle.


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## Cold Weather (Dec 17, 2008)

PSE had in their higher end:

Citation

Pacer 

Profinciency

The Profinciecny had brackets like the Pacer and a 4 wheel design like the Citation. 

I recall Astro, but I was die hard Jennings and that is what I shot.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

I kjnow the Pacer had brackets, but I don't remember the Citation ever having brackets.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

kballer1 said:


> I don't remember PSE having a 4 wheeler with limb brackets, from what I remember all there 4 wheelers had split limbs & that there 2 wheelers had brackets. The first 2 wheel split limb bows were the Astro bows 2 wheel Regency which took first place in a lot of major tournaments with there great feleing small comfort handle.


Actually, Carroll Two wheelers had split limbs and were the first on the scene. Right at first, everyone said "the two-wheeled compound bows are ugly and they'll never make it." That quickly changed when people started winning some tournaments with Carroll two-wheelers. Astro was soon on the scene with their split limb two-wheelers not long after.
The PSE Pacer with limb brackets on the end of the limbs was one fine shooting bow!
The PSE Citations didn't have the brackets on the ends of the limbs; they had the eccentrics mounted in between the "forks" on the ends of the limbs, as did most of the 4-wheelers and 6-wheelers, too.
The photo on the top left is of a PSE Pacer. The ad on the top right shows the Carroll two-wheelers. Note the lack of end limb brackets for the eccentrics (they were NOT cams back then), and the lack of a cable guard, too! The eccentrics were very wide, so the cable guard wasn't needed. That quickly changed, however as the eccentrics got narrowed down a lot, necessitating the cable guard rods we still see to this very day. Those rods have been a bone of contention and changed from one thing to another and back too many times to count.
The photo bottom left is a PSE Citation Presidential 4 wheeler with "speed brackets" (after PSE changed over from turn-buckles to "time" the eccentrics with). The photo lower Right is also a PSE Citation Presidential from 1986, a la 2-wheeler with lower mounted cable guard. Also note the "overdraw" bracket on the 2-wheeler, too. Basically, what you all know today as "torque tuning", but was done in 1986 so we could shoot a shorter arrow and get more "speed." Those overdraws didn't last all that long on the target archery scene, however. Many of the overdraws didn't allow for much adjustment back and forth, but many did allow for back and forth adjustment. I built my own and didn't move the thing very far back. We quickly learned that going even with or even slightly behind the wrist with the arrow rest itself robbed accuracy and increased left and right misses drastically.


























field14 (Tom D.)


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## rn3 (Jan 4, 2008)

The proficiency had the hanger brackets, that was my 1st compound bow back in 74 or 75 can't remember exactly. The pacer didn't come for another year or so. Field I had that same color Presidential except my sight was an engraved Toxonics, still have it but the bow was stolen.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey field 14,
Carroll wasn't the first on the scene as the bow's new B series didn't come out till 1977 & we (Astro) were building them in late 1972 & we were the first to have the split limb weight adjustable (15#) 2 wheel bow on the market.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

kballer1 said:


> Hey field 14,
> Carroll wasn't the first on the scene as the bow's new B series didn't come out till 1977 & we (Astro) were building them in late 1972 & we were the first to have the split limb weight adjustable (15#) 2 wheel bow on the market.


According to this, we are BOTH incorrect as to who was first with the TWO wheeled compound bow. It was, Tom Jennings:
http://www.archeryhalloffame.com/Jennings.html 
Quote: 
"Notes of Interest

Known as “Mr. Compound Bow,” First Man to Mass Produce and Promote the Compound Bow Nationwide
Master Bowyer and Partner with M. R. Smithwick at S&J Archery in Southern California
Pioneered Cosmetic and Functional Improvements in Laminated Recurve Bows
Purchased the First License Under H. W. Allen Patent to Manufacture and Market the Jennings Compound Bow; *Introduced First 2 and 4-Wheel Compounds
*
Yes, the "B" series date is accurate. However, I was shooting a Carroll Two-Wheeler sometime in 1975 or 1976 BEFORE the NFAA changed the target face. But you say Astro was making two-wheelers in 1972 or so? That was almost even before compounds became "legal" for NFAA competition! I had seen only Carroll recurved bows up until I got the Carroll compound for me and my wife in early 1975. I also owned an Astro Recurved bow around that same time, but had never seen the Astro two wheeler. Later on, in the 1980's, I had a pair of Astro Regency two-wheelers that were "shooting machines". Slow, but super accurate, with round wheels on them. Great grips on those bow...sure as heck NOT low wristed by any means.
I was on staff for an archery shop in Lancaster Ohio run by Larry Lendemen. I was shooting a 4-wheeled Carroll compound ( I think it was the 1200? It had the metal side plate speed brackets and cable take ups and NOT the "pegs" and weird reverse recurved limbs. Larry asked me if I wanted to try the "new" Carroll two-wheeler. I remember even he said that the thing would "never last" or be accepted. That one did have the weird recurved limbs on it, but only two wheels, mounted in limb forks on the ends of the limbs. The best thing about the entire bow was the "grip". It felt so much like the 4-wheeler Carroll and their recurved bow grips it was uncanny. I cannot for the life of me remember the name of that bow model. It was noisy and I didn't shoot it long and went back to my 4-wheeler.
The photo is of my father's Red Carroll 4-wheeler. It is stil in the family, and the bow shoots just fine. It is worn, and is showing its age. Mine was a Blue one, and my wife's was identical to the one pictured, only with an even shorter draw length. Kink boards and all that snot, remember?







Do you recall the name of that arrow rest that is on this Carroll Compound bow?
field14


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

rn3 said:


> The proficiency had the hanger brackets, that was my 1st compound bow back in 74 or 75 can't remember exactly. The pacer didn't come for another year or so. Field I had that same color Presidential except my sight was an engraved Toxonics, still have it but the bow was stolen.


I wanna say the Pacer likely came in early 1976, cuz I remember shooting my new White Pacer in a District 5 Target Championship and those were in June. It was also before the NFAA changed the target face on field/hunter rounds, too. So, had to be 1976?


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey Field,
Yes Tom J. had the first 2 wheel BRACKETED bow but not the first 2 wheel SPLIT LIMB, WEIGHT ADJUSTABLE bow. We sold to Outers Lab in the summer of 1975 & we had a 2 wheeler for over 1 1/2 yr before that. 

What I am saying is Astro had the first split limb , weight adjustable (15#) 2 wheeler.

The rest on the Carroll 4 wheeler is a Match II By Golden Key Archery ( Freddy Transcosa)


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## RealDakota (May 24, 2006)

It's my understanding that one of Allen's first prototypes was a two-wheel, weight-adjustable, split limb, bow with a synthetic cable harness. That's the design (also with cams, rather than wheels) that appears in the patent.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

You hit that right on the head, PROTOTYPE, not production, not wheels, looks like 1 of a kind, & looks like wood handle which make it 60 # Max.


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