# Just one Question to Ask a PRO



## field14

I thought this could be a somewhat interesting thread to start here...and maybe we could even get some feedback and answers and have some learning experiences.

Here goes:

If you could ask any pro just ONE and only ONE Question about their shooting, their setup, or whatever,

WHAT ONE _*SERIOUS*_ QUESTION WOULD YOU ASK A PRO?


field14:darkbeer:


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## rustyfence

My first national event I attended, I ended up staying in the same hotel as a few pros. We ended up playing euchre (card game) for several hours, and shooting the bull. We tried to not ask archery questions, but after about an hour the pros said "just ask the questions already, we know you are dieing to ask" so for the next two hours I did get to pick a pros brain:wink:

Lots of arrow set up questions, FOC etc......


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## Brown Hornet

Excuse me......will you shoot outdoor Nationals/Vegas/etc. for me...no no....use my score card


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## rustyfence

Brown Hornet said:


> Excuse me......will you shoot outdoor Nationals/Vegas/etc. for me...no no....use my score card


chalk one up to Mr. Hornet, that would have been a good question to ask!:wink:


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## itchyfinger

I have one.....

When competiting at the top level in a sport as repetitive as archery, how do you stay focused? Especially when practicing! How do you keep your fun meter from pegging out?


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## field14

Brown Hornet said:


> Excuse me......will you shoot outdoor Nationals/Vegas/etc. for me...no no....use my score card


Note CHANGE to the format: What ONE SERIOUS question would you ask a Pro?

Since we all know the answer to Hornet's tongue in cheek question....:wink::tongue:

field14


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## Brown Hornet

field14 said:


> Note CHANGE to the format: What ONE SERIOUS question would you ask a Pro?
> 
> Since we all know the answer to Hornet's tongue in cheek question....:wink::tongue:
> 
> field14


What are you talking about I am serious.....I would be more then willing to let Dave or someone win me a big bowl


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## jonabxring

*only one is tough...*

What if anything would you have done different in your "Pro Career"?


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## jonabxring

*told you, one was tough*

What's the best piece of advice you would like to share with someone thinking about becoming a PRO?


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## jonabxring

*ok, I'll stop for now...hoping for answers...*

What do you spend most of your time working on in your development?


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## 60Xbulldog60X

itchyfinger said:


> I have one.....
> 
> When competiting at the top level in a sport as repetitive as archery, how do you stay focused? Especially when practicing! How do you keep your fun meter from pegging out?


Staying focused is one of the hardest things to do. For indoor shooting I generally practice on the Vegas face 95 percent of the time. I can guage my setup and my form better by shooting for the baby X's. Most of the time when a top pro misses it is because he lost focus for just a moment. It can actually happen in the blink of an eye. The best way for me to stay focused, is to have a routine and shot sequence and try to duplicate it everytime. as far as keeping my fun meter from pegging out, I set goals and strive to set them. For instance, if I am shooting good, I will keep track of how many X's I shoot in a row. Say for instance if I shot 300 X's in a row, my next goal would be more than 300. I am always striving for perfection. I may not ever get there, I'm not sure anyone ever will, but if I strive for it, then I can only get better and come closer to my objectives.
Hope this answers your question.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> What if anything would you have done different in your "Pro Career"?


I would have started it much sooner if I had of been in a position to do so.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> What's the best piece of advice you would like to share with someone thinking about becoming a PRO?


Make sure that it is what you really want and don't put to much pressure on yourself if you decide to take that step. I have been putting too much pressure on myself and although I have not won anything major yet, I am learning a lot about myself and things I need to work on. I am also having a blast while doing so.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> What do you spend most of your time working on in your development?


I am working more on my form than anything while trying different setups and bow configurations. I have learned in the past three big tournaments, that I have to go back to my back tension releases. With a trigger release I am getting too tentative with my shot execution under pressure. I started back with the back tension the day after Louisville.:wink:


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## jonabxring

*thank you*

just a public thank you to field14 for starting the thread and 60xbulldog60x for helpful answers and feedback. (I did check out your home page)

What does "tentative" feel like mentally and/or physically? Since that is not what is desired, what "one word description" would you give to a properly executed shot? It could be several one word descriptions.

Thank you all so much and hopefully many others will join in...I'm excited about this thread...good luck.


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## Hutnicks

How did sponsorship change the way you approached the game?


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## The Swami

> What does "tentative" feel like mentally and/or physically? Since that is not what is desired, what "one word description" would you give to a properly executed shot? It could be several one word descriptions.


Tentative:

Tight, tense, anxious, fearful.

Properly executed shot:

Effortless, easy, fluid, almost accidental.


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## jonabxring

*I got plenty of questions...one at a time*

Thanks swami (re: tentative)
Earlier 60xbulldog60x mentioned "be sure that's what you want to do"....I can't stop thinking about it, yet I want to be qualified, worthy so to speak. My question is...other than just getting "spanked" what would be a primary obsticle or pitfall for a new pro and how could he or she be better prepared to work thru it?


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## jonabxring

*I just getting warmed up...*

What would you consider to be common ground or a shared characteristic of a pro?

Could someone define a "pro" in general terms, other than someone who gets paid to shoot a bow. What is a "PRO"? For example, most people recognise the names of the top pros and yet I hear there are great shooters who never go to a tournament...where is the middle ground, where does it start?...other than pay the extra and step on the line.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> Thanks swami (re: tentative)
> Earlier 60xbulldog60x mentioned "be sure that's what you want to do"....I can't stop thinking about it, yet I want to be qualified, worthy so to speak. My question is...other than just getting "spanked" what would be a primary obsticle or pitfall for a new pro and how could he or she be better prepared to work thru it?


One thing I was getting at was, Do you have any goals at the Ametuer level? Such as a National Championship. I always wanted to win a National Championship before I turned pro. I was lucky enough to win the Indoor Nationals in 2006 in the AMFS division. I then turned pro the following year. I have always felt like I could shoot as good as the top Pro's on any given day, I just wanted to achieve a goal before I stepped up. I also could not afford to do all the travelling until the last couple of years. Like I said earlier, I am learning a lot about myself as an archer under the gun and I am enjoying every minute of it. If you have any goals as an ametuer, I would persue them. If you have already achieved them and feel like you have the game to step up, then you may want to step up. If you step up, and you feel like you are not competing at that level, give yourself a good amount of time to feel things out and stay with it. The more you shoot in that arena, the more comfortable you will become. There are not an awful lot of Pro's out there that went to the top very quickly. It think it takes a little time and effort to get comfortable as a Pro for most people.


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## 2fingers

Most pros dont get paid to shoot a bow.:embara: Most do get equipment cheaper or free. Most pay to get a great shooting time. Its also the next challenge.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> What would you consider to be common ground or a shared characteristic of a pro?
> 
> Could someone define a "pro" in general terms, other than someone who gets paid to shoot a bow. What is a "PRO"? For example, most people recognise the names of the top pros and yet I hear there are great shooters who never go to a tournament...where is the middle ground, where does it start?...other than pay the extra and step on the line.


Defining a Pro is a touchy subject to a lot of people. First, not all pro's get paid to shoot. Second, there are great shooters who never go to a tournament. Could be that they just don't care to compete or would like to compete and can't afford it. There could be several reasons why they don't compete. To me, characteristics of a pro would be someone that generally shoots above average, is a good embassedor of the sport. Conducts him/herself in a professional manner and promotes the sport. I personally don't think that you have to be paid by a manufacturer to be considered a pro. I know some people do. The pro level is just a level where generally the top archers in the world shoot against one another to test there skill levels. That is not to say that there are not ametuers out there that are not skilled enough to compete on the pro level. There are many. For there own reason's they choose not to shoot in the pro division. No one should say otherwise. From what I see, there is no middle ground. You are either a ametuer or a pro. I guess it all boils down to what you want to achieve as an archer.

Hope this helps answer your question,

Kendall


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## Diane Watson

This is great stuff! Thanks Field 14! Thanks Kendall for taking the lead : )

I'm going to take this thread one step further. I am going to choose several of your questions and use them in an article in the NFAA Magazine. So stay tuned and keep those great questions coming!


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## r49740

First of all... threads like this that pop up every so often is why I look at AT... so thank you for this.

I would ask three questions.. even though that might be against the rules. 

First, what is your step by step method for tuning? So once you have the bow together, what steps are taken to have it hit accurately at the longer yardages(out to 80)? ie. papertune, walk back, etc. Can you explain how you tune for us?

Second, what process do you use to get accurate site tapes for the moveable sites? On Target is what I currently am trying hard to learn properly.

Third, what does your practice routine look like for the week? Do you shoot everyday, spend time yardage practicing, blank bailing, etc.

Thanks again for a great thread.


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## JAVI

Hutnicks said:


> How did sponsorship change the way you approached the game?


Other than the responsibility to represent the sponsor to the best of my ability there is no difference. The one exception would be contractually agreed apon participation in certain tournaments which I might not otherwise attend.


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## Brown Hornet

r49740 said:


> Second, what process do you use to get accurate site tapes for the moveable sites? On Target is what I currently am trying hard to learn properly.
> Thanks again for a great thread.


Not a Pro...but I know that Swami and I talked about this a bit last summer...and there is a thread in the field forum talking about this right now 

This is what the Swami had to say about tapes and this is pretty much how I do mine



The Swami said:


> I use 2 marks, 20 yards and 60 yards in Archer's Advantage. My marks on spot on at all yardages. I have never had any issues doing this. I never use a chrony for my marks. I let the program do it. That is the best way for me.
> 
> Remember on these things, garbage in, garbage out. Details matter and so does being meticulous.
> 
> There is a post of mine from way back that explains how I set up my sight and do my marks if you search for it.
> 
> Ok, I went beyond the grave to find this one. It sure stunk in the crypt.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, this is what I do with AA.
> 
> I shoot a movable sight like the Shibuya Ultima CP 520. It is a 24x20 sight.
> 
> I don't use a sight tape so I feel this next thing is very important if you are using the scale side of your sight....
> 
> Zero out your sight. To do this, dial your sight to a numbered line on your scale side of your sight. They are bigger lines usually. Get that indicator pin so it is dead on the middle of that line. When you do that, look at your knob you use to move your scope up and down. The knob should be on the number zero. Most of the time on a new sight it isn't. You could be several clicks away from zero. If you leave it like this and use a sight mark sheet and the scale side of the sight, you are not necessarily setting your sight on the exact setting your sight card is telling you.
> 
> When you have the indicator pin dead on the line and the knob is not at zero, turn the knob to zero and then adjust your pin so that it reads dead on the line of the scale side of the sight. Move the pin up and down the scale on several numbers of your sight frame. Anytime you are dead on a line, that knob should be at zero.
> 
> Once you have done this, anytime your pin is on a line, your knob is at zero. This will help when you use the scale side of the sight and a sight card with all your marks on it to ensure that if your card says 62.55, you are actually setting your sight exactly at that number instead of being a few clicks off. That is too much slop at longer yardages.
> 
> I then make sure that all my axis settings are good and then I make sure that my sight frame of my sight is on the same plane with the riser of the bow, not the string. I shoot the bow with no cant, so I make sure the sight frame is on the same plane as the riser. That way as you move the sight down the frame, your windage doesn't change.
> 
> I build my bow and my arrow I am using with exact measurements and then of course I add my parallax info too.
> 
> I then shoot a 20 yard mark. This takes me some time as there a range of settings that gives you be dead center of the target and you could click up or down and not move it much. I move the sight until I see the arrow move then go back to the other way until I see the arrow move that way. I then use the middle of those 2 settings as my 20 yard mark. Kind of tedious eh?
> 
> I then shoot a 60 yard mark. This one doesn't take as long because a click or 2 shows up more at this yardage.
> 
> Once I input my 20 and 60 marks to AA, I print them out and go shoot a 4 yard shot. If I am dead in the center, I know my parallax is good. Most people can hold very solid on a 4 yard shot and aim at a very small dot to check this. Easy shot to do.
> 
> I have always gotten perfect marks when I do this. If my marks turn out to not be good, then it was my bow changing or the way my shot changed.
> 
> For your lower mark, it might be easier to use a 30 like someone else mentioned. But if you are a very good shot, then you will be able to get an accurate 20 yard mark, it just takes some time.


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## jonabxring

*Becoming*

It is written that before becoming like something; in this case a "PRO", one must first begin to think and act like what they desire to become.
What would you consider to be the biggest change in your thoughts and actions since becoming a pro?


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## Hutnicks

JAVI said:


> Other than the responsibility to represent the sponsor to the best of my ability there is no difference. The one exception would be contractually agreed apon participation in certain tournaments which I might not otherwise attend.


That is what I was interested in. Can the contractual obligations become detrimental, particularly to someone who has just acquired sponsorship and has not had to deal with it before?


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## JAVI

Hutnicks said:


> That is what I was interested in. Can the contractual obligations become detrimental, particularly to someone who has just acquired sponsorship and has not had to deal with it before?


As with any contract one must carefully consider all the ramifications and obligations. The limited experience I've had with archery sponsors has been good and the demands on my time have been limited to tournament attendance and the occasional special event. No doubt a professional of greater notoriety than myself may have other considerations.


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## jonabxring

*finances*

Since turning pro, has it become "financially" easier to attend tournaments or is it more of a strain on the family resources? 
Without being specific (may not be allowed) how much has sponsorship helped you reach your goals. 
How did you get your first sponsor, your second....


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## jonabxring

*questions...*

Are you happy, satisfied...what are your goals?


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## jonabxring

*your mentor's*

if not you, whom do you look up to? Admire? Respect? Want to be like? Be better than? Why.....?


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## jonabxring

*told you, I got lot's of em*

What book are you reading now? Watching a video? Listening to tapes?
Since Archery is to me an addiction...(bad word), how do you get away and how much time for you is it important to "unwind"?


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## jonabxring

*got a couple more*

as a pro, what do you want out of archery...what would you like to contribute?


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## jonabxring

*all right, let's get real...*

Take a moment...In your own opionion, what do you need to improve on to become "the best in the land" ... "the greatest of all time"?


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## jonabxring

*do you have questions?*

If you could only ask one question...whom would you ask and what would the question be?


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## jonabxring

*smile*

As a pro, what question most often brings a smile to your face and what question really get's you to thinking...this guy/gal is on their way?


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## jonabxring

*sharing*

As a pro, what aspect of archery would you like to share with the public...what will it take to get archery at a level with golf or bowling? If you could share a bale or target with one other person...who would it be?


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## jonabxring

*wow, I'm tripping*

before turning pro, what were the dominate thoughts running thru your mind? Have you're "fears", "expectations" been realized?


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## jonabxring

*I ain't thru yet..*

what piece of advice would you offer to an aspiring archer?


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## jonabxring

*last but not least, till later...*

whom would you like to invite to offer advice in this thread? What are you waiting on...If not for me, for so many others..."archers helping archers"...who can you get involved in this thread.
Gotta go, keep em in the middle...see you down the road:darkbeer:


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## Unk Bond

field14 said:


> I thought this could be a somewhat interesting thread to start here...and maybe we could even get some feedback and answers and have some learning experiences.
> 
> Here goes:
> 
> If you could ask any pro just ONE and only ONE Question about their shooting, their setup, or whatever,
> 
> WHAT ONE _*SERIOUS*_ QUESTION WOULD YOU ASK A PRO?
> 
> 
> field14:darkbeer:


----------------------
Thats easy. And has been on my mind.As you can see for quiet some time.:wink:
I would like to ask Jim D how he used the Carter X release


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> It is written that before becoming like something; in this case a "PRO", one must first begin to think and act like what they desire to become.
> What would you consider to be the biggest change in your thoughts and actions since becoming a pro?


Believe it or not, the biggest change that I have made is to be more open with any and all shooters. If someone comes to me for some kind of help or guidance, I don't hesitate to do my best to help. I feel like that is the least I can do. I am still in the learning process myself and I feel like all archers, all pro's included still have things to learn. If you think about it, everyday should be a learning experience whether it be everyday life or archery.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> Since turning pro, has it become "financially" easier to attend tournaments or is it more of a strain on the family resources?
> Without being specific (may not be allowed) how much has sponsorship helped you reach your goals.
> How did you get your first sponsor, your second....


Hey John, 
For me turning pro has not made it any easier financially. If anything, it is a little more expensive. But, with me being very dedicated to my archery, I have slowed down on other types of recreation, which in turn may save me money in the long run. I generally spend all of my free time practicing and working on getting better. I have a very, very understanding wife and she is behind my endeavors 100%. For that, I am very greatful. 
Sponsorhip is definitely helping me reach my goals. It gives me one more reason to try and excel at the game. I am greatful to all my sponsors and I definitely want to make them proud. I feel like I owe that to them because they are definitely deserving of it.
My first sponsorship was through a proshop. My current position on the Mathews staff was achieved by sending in a resume of my accomplishments and future goals. Whichever Manufacturer you are interested in normally accepts resume's sometime around September every year. This could vary from one manufacturer to another.

Hope this helps,
Kendall


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> Are you happy, satisfied...what are your goals?


I am very happy and satisfied with the way things are progressing. This is my second year as a Pro and although I have not won anything major, I feel like I am getting closer to doing so.
I would think that every pro out there has a goal of winning Vegas. If they have not done so already. That would be my ultimate goal. It is the biggest tournament in the world. The only way to ever accomplish something over Vegas would be to do it more than once.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> if not you, whom do you look up to? Admire? Respect? Want to be like? Be better than? Why.....?


I admire all archers no matter what division they shoot in. There are different nuances within all divisions and to get to the top of any division takes commitment. That in itself is something to admire and respect. I also very much respect the pro's, present and past. There are things that we all can learn from every one of them.

Want to be like? Honestly I just want to be myself and achieve my goals. With the level of today's pro's, it is hard to want to be better than someone else. What I mean is, there is really no one particular pro winning everything. There are so many good pro's that it would be hard to pick just one. There are quite a few at each event that could have a chance at winning. That person just has to have a good weekend shooting and a little bit of good fortune doesn't hurt either.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> What book are you reading now? Watching a video? Listening to tapes?
> Since Archery is to me an addiction...(bad word), how do you get away and how much time for you is it important to "unwind"?


Honestly right now I am not reading any books, watching any videos or listening to tapes. I was told by Jimmy Despart at Vegas that "With winning in mind" is a very good read. 
I really don't try and get away from my archey at all. I work 12 hour shifts which makes it impossible for archery on the days I am working. On my days off, if I don't have my daughter and my wife is working, then I spend my time at the archery range getting my practice in. For me, there is very little "unwind time".


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> as a pro, what do you want out of archery...what would you like to contribute?


Well of course I would like a couple of wins under my belt, but I would like to see the sport grow. I would contribute anything needed to help the sport grow. Whether it be helping a child get started, helping state organizations, sponsors, whatever is needed.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> Take a moment...In your own opionion, what do you need to improve on to become "the best in the land" ... "the greatest of all time"?


I need to improve on my mental game. I think that form and the mental game is an ongoing thing that most everyone works on. Even the top Pro's.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> If you could only ask one question...whom would you ask and what would the question be?


I'll have to think about this one.:wink:


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> As a pro, what question most often brings a smile to your face and what question really get's you to thinking...this guy/gal is on their way?


Youngster asking for an autograph. All of your questions have been very good and have really had me thinking.:wink:


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> As a pro, what aspect of archery would you like to share with the public...what will it take to get archery at a level with golf or bowling? If you could share a bale or target with one other person...who would it be?


I would like to share all aspects of archery with the public. 
I think to get archery to the level of golf or bowling there will need to be more sponsors sought out and definitely media coverage. There may need to be some tweeks to the format so that the viewers can have an understanding of the game.
If you could share a bale or target with one other person...who would it be?[/QUOTE]
Anyone. Doesn't matter who it is.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> before turning pro, what were the dominate thoughts running thru your mind? Have you're "fears", "expectations" been realized?


I wondered if I was doing the right thing. I've never been happier competing. Fears, yes. Expectations of myself, no.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> what piece of advice would you offer to an aspiring archer?


Practice as much as you can and don't be afraid to walk up to a Pro and ask a question.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jonabxring said:


> whom would you like to invite to offer advice in this thread? What are you waiting on...If not for me, for so many others..."archers helping archers"...who can you get involved in this thread.
> Gotta go, keep em in the middle...see you down the road:darkbeer:


All of the Pro's! I'll see what I can do to get more involvment.:wink:


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## 60Xbulldog60X

Unk Bond said:


> ----------------------
> Thats easy. And has been on my mind.As you can see for quiet some time.:wink:
> I would like to ask Jim D how he used the Carter X release


I'll see if I can't give Jimmy D a little boost for you.:wink:


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## JDES900X

Hi Unk,
I used the X-IT for some time and still do occasionally. It is a nice release to try because it can be shot as a conventional thumb release or as an automatic electronic release with a set timer. If you can hold it for five seconds, the release is triggered by a solenoid actuator.


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## cmitch

*Q&a*

What score would you regard as a respectable Fita score?


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## hunter3d

I think this may have already been asked but, how did you determine when to turn pro? Did you set certain goals that you had to reach bfore turning or was it a confidence in your ability to compete that made you turn?


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## 60Xbulldog60X

cmitch said:


> What score would you regard as a respectable Fita score?


For me, I have only shot one Fita round and it was so long ago that I can't remember what my score was. I do remember that it was not that good. The wind was blowing really bad and I was trying to shoot with a back tension release. This does not work at all. Back then, I didn't even own a trigger release. 
From what I have been seeing, I would say that a 1375 and up, would be very respectable. Of course the magic number for most people is 1400.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

hunter3d said:


> I think this may have already been asked but, how did you determine when to turn pro? Did you set certain goals that you had to reach bfore turning or was it a confidence in your ability to compete that made you turn?


For me, I wanted to win a National title in the AMFS division before I moved up. I moved up the following year after reaching my goal.


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## Unk Bond

JDES900X said:


> Hi Unk,
> I used the X-IT for some time and still do occasionally. It is a nice release to try because it can be shot as a conventional thumb release or as an automatic electronic release with a set timer. If you can hold it for five seconds, the release is triggered by a solenoid actuator.


Hello and thanks for the reply.
I had one for a very long time .Sent it back and had them make it to go off in 2 seconds intervals each and every time.I found once i had commited to the shot.That was enought time to elasp. After starting my BT.

But iam still wodering when you won with it.Did you shoot it as a conventional thumb release . [ Later


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## tunnelvision

*share bale with?*

Would like to shoot with Chance. He's the man. I met him and he's a very nice guy.


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## Hutnicks

60Xbulldog60X said:


> For me, I have only shot one Fita round and it was so long ago that I can't remember what my score was. I do remember that it was not that good. The wind was blowing really bad and I was trying to shoot with a back tension release. This does not work at all. Back then, I didn't even own a trigger release.
> From what I have been seeing, I would say that a 1375 and up, would be very respectable. Of course the magic number for most people is 1400.


 Whoa there, touched on a very excellent point and I wonder if I may get you to elaborate on the "Trigger" or command release over the Back Tension. Particularly how you came to the trigger and what benefits you get from it.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

Hutnicks said:


> Whoa there, touched on a very excellent point and I wonder if I may get you to elaborate on the "Trigger" or command release over the Back Tension. Particularly how you came to the trigger and what benefits you get from it.


Hey there Hutnicks,
Basically, I came to the trigger 3 years ago and honestly the only reason I tried a trigger was because I had been on a 4 year layoff from archery. I picked up the trigger because I knew that it would take me several months to get in shape to shoot the back tension. I have shot some really good scores with the trigger release, but, I shoot much stonger shots with a back tension. With the back tension, I hold steadier most of the time and my follow through comes natural. I actually shoot much tighter groups with my back tension. I can even tell a difference indoors at 20 yards. I did win the Indoor Nationals with the trigger, but since I have turned pro, I feel the need to go back to the back tesion. I put a little pressure on myself in tournaments and the trigger is not working under the gun.
For wind situations, I think you would be better off with a trigger though. It is very difficult if not impossible to score well in the wind with a back tension. Especially if it is gusty winds.

Hope this answers your question,

Kendall Woody


----------



## Hutnicks

60Xbulldog60X said:


> Hey there Hutnicks,
> Basically, I came to the trigger 3 years ago and honestly the only reason I tried a trigger was because I had been on a 4 year layoff from archery. I picked up the trigger because I knew that it would take me several months to get in shape to shoot the back tension. I have shot some really good scores with the trigger release, but, I shoot much stonger shots with a back tension. With the back tension, I hold steadier most of the time and my follow through comes natural. I actually shoot much tighter groups with my back tension. I can even tell a difference indoors at 20 yards. I did win the Indoor Nationals with the trigger, but since I have turned pro, I feel the need to go back to the back tesion. I put a little pressure on myself in tournaments and the trigger is not working under the gun.
> For wind situations, I think you would be better off with a trigger though. It is very difficult if not impossible to score well in the wind with a back tension. Especially if it is gusty winds.
> 
> Hope this answers your question,
> 
> Kendall Woody


 Thanks for the reply. You answered the question perfectly. I have issues with wind myself, strong winds tend to throw me off a little causing me to overcontol the bow.


----------



## Pigeon Phil

Can you describe a "typical" practice session?


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

Pigeon Phil said:


> Can you describe a "typical" practice session?


A typical practice session for me would be shooting a regular scoring round on whichever target face I will be shooting in an upcoming tournament. I mostly shoot on the Vegas face indoors because I can count my super X's and tell more about how I am shooting and how the bow setup is performing. I generally like to shoot more than one practice round a day when I have the time.


----------



## Bobmuley

field14 said:


> ...WHAT ONE _*SERIOUS*_ QUESTION WOULD YOU ASK A PRO?
> 
> 
> field14:darkbeer:


Is it worth it? 

Is it worth the time and effort to get on top and to stay on top. I realize that question would be even more limited than just "any ole' pro"...


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

Bobmuley said:


> Is it worth it?
> 
> Is it worth the time and effort to get on top and to stay on top. I realize that question would be even more limited than just "any ole' pro"...


Not sure what you mean by just "any ole pro". Heck, maybe you are refering to me, it doesn't matter though. I think you could ask any professional in any sport the same question and get similar answers. 

To answer your question, it takes desire to try and get to the top and stay there. Doesn't matter what the sport is. How do you think Tiger Woods stays on top? It's because of his desire to be the best that ever was and ever will be. Why do all the other pro's play the game of golf? Because they have the desire to succeed. Why is Tiger dominating? It could be that his desire is to break every record imaginable and most of the other pro's just desire to win a few tournaments. Even though Tiger is winning more than his fair share of tournaments, it doesn't come without time and effort. 

None of the top professional archers win tournaments without time and effort put into it. Just take Chance for instance. In the Vegas video he states that he puts more preperation into Vegas than any other tournament throughout the year. Maybe that's why he has won it three times?

Hope this answers your question from "any ole pro". But I would bet that you will get a similar answer from any other pro, top or not.

Kendall


----------



## Bobmuley

60Xbulldog60X said:


> Not sure what you mean by just "any ole pro". Heck, maybe you are refering to me, it doesn't matter though. I think you could ask any professional in any sport the same question and get similar answers.
> 
> To answer your question, it takes desire to try and get to the top and stay there. Doesn't matter what the sport is. How do you think Tiger Woods stays on top? It's because of his desire to be the best that ever was and ever will be. Why do all the other pro's play the game of golf? Because they have the desire to succeed. Why is Tiger dominating? It could be that his desire is to break every record imaginable and most of the other pro's just desire to win a few tournaments. Even though Tiger is winning more than his fair share of tournaments, it doesn't come without time and effort.
> 
> None of the top professional archers win tournaments without time and effort put into it. Just take Chance for instance. In the Vegas video he states that he puts more preperation into Vegas than any other tournament throughout the year. Maybe that's why he has won it three times?
> 
> Hope this answers your question from "any ole pro". But I would bet that you will get a similar answer from any other pro, top or not.
> 
> Kendall


Kendall, I didn't mean to insult anyone. Heck, even most amatuers know half a dozen or more "pros" in their region. I know all the ones in Colorado have jobs that pay the bills that offer the opportunity to shoot. I'd limit the question to those pros that spend the majority of their time shooting/making a living with a bow in their hands. Does that description fit you? I'm gonna start a new thread so that we (amatuers) can get to know you (pros).

A pro in most any other sport can make a decent living. Tiger is greatly rewarded for his hard work. But, if we were to figure out the hourly wage of the top shooters (lets say Cousins, Reo, Gellentien, and Chance) INCLUDING practice...what would that figure be? Lets say that Chance only practiced for six hours a day, five days a week for a month in preparation for Vegas (I'd be willing to bet that he had far more than 132 hours in prep for it). Lets assume that his contingencies offset his expenses. Chance made $18.93 an hour for shooting his bow. That doesn't do much towards financial security or retirement. Why would Reo keep his day job? I'm sure it interferes with his shooting to some degree. 

The other resource used up is time...and alot of it. 

I think the real reason to persue it isn't for money (at least not yet). If it weren't for competitive drive and the feeling only a great shot gives you who'd want to try to make a living doing this?


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

Bobmuley said:


> Kendall, I didn't mean to insult anyone. Heck, even most amatuers know half a dozen or more "pros" in their region. I know all the ones in Colorado have jobs that pay the bills that offer the opportunity to shoot. I'd limit the question to those pros that spend the majority of their time shooting/making a living with a bow in their hands. Does that description fit you? I'm gonna start a new thread so that we (amatuers) can get to know you (pros).
> 
> A pro in most any other sport can make a decent living. Tiger is greatly rewarded for his hard work. But, if we were to figure out the hourly wage of the top shooters (lets say Cousins, Reo, Gellentien, and Chance) INCLUDING practice...what would that figure be? Lets say that Chance only practiced for six hours a day, five days a week for a month in preparation for Vegas (I'd be willing to bet that he had far more than 132 hours in prep for it). Lets assume that his contingencies offset his expenses. Chance made $18.93 an hour for shooting his bow. That doesn't do much towards financial security or retirement. Why would Reo keep his day job? I'm sure it interferes with his shooting to some degree.
> 
> The other resource used up is time...and alot of it.
> 
> I think the real reason to persue it isn't for money (at least not yet). If it weren't for competitive drive and the feeling only a great shot gives you who'd want to try to make a living doing this?


I agree 100%. Now I understand where you are coming from. I think that some of the top pro's may be compensated other than equipment and travel expenses. I'm not possitive, but there may be a few. If you were to figure the hourly rate like you describe, I would think that Chances' rate of 18.93 would probably even be a little on the high side. I think that most of the pro's work a normal job like myself and use every available time they have to working on there game. In my case, for the past two years, I am deep in the negative on hourly rate. But, like you said above, I don't think there are many pro's shooting because of the money,there is just not enough money for that to be the case. 
Honestly, I am doing this because of the love for the game and to do what I can to help the game grow. I also have a desire to excel and see how high I can go, plus I love the competition.

Bye the way, no insult taken, I think you are spot on in your observations.

Thanks,

Kendall


----------



## rangeplayer

It is not that easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have to say the best way to stayed focused and not letting your meter peg out would be practice under pressure. You have to set the environment. You want to shoot well under pressure you have to practice that way. That would be my biggest downfall, practice, practice, practice and then don't follow through with what I have practiced in competition because I don't practice under enough pressure.



itchyfinger said:


> I have one.....
> 
> When competiting at the top level in a sport as repetitive as archery, how do you stay focused? Especially when practicing! How do you keep your fun meter from pegging out?


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

rangeplayer said:


> It is not that easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have to say the best way to stayed focused and not letting your meter peg out would be practice under pressure. You have to set the environment. You want to shoot well under pressure you have to practice that way. That would be my biggest downfall, practice, practice, practice and then don't follow through with what I have practiced in competition because I don't practice under enough pressure.


Very good point Keith. I agree 100%. There are several pro's around our area that live within 2-3 hours of one another that could get together and put pressure on each other. But, it is very difficult to get everyone together at the same times because of scheduling conflicts. I know I work crazy hours and work a lot when most people are off. I know it would do us all ton's of good if we were able to get together and put the pressure on one another. At least we have made efforts this year to do so. The Hunt'n Shack is a good start. I plan on getting down to your neck of the woods sometime this year to do some shooting. I have been wanting to do this for quite some time now.
Good to see you on this forum.

Thanks,
Kendall


----------



## mnjeff

*blank bale*

how much and how important is it in your training?


----------



## 60X

Well said about the practice under pressure. I often find myself totally wore out at the end of the major indoor round. It took me a couple years and I finally realized I was mentally wore out. That is something that is very hard to duplicate in practice or local shoots. I'd have to say that good local competition is about the best practice for that.


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

mnjeff said:


> how much and how important is it in your training?


Honestly, for me, I have never blank baled before. I know that some people do, but I have never tried it. Maybe I should try it? That is definitely food for thought.


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

60X said:


> Well said about the practice under pressure. I often find myself totally wore out at the end of the major indoor round. It took me a couple years and I finally realized I was mentally wore out. That is something that is very hard to duplicate in practice or local shoots. I'd have to say that good local competition is about the best practice for that.


You are spot on. This year in Vegas, the first day I shot really well, 300-26X, but not long after the round was over, I felt like I had been run over by a truck. I thought I was in really good shape for this tournament. Physically I may have been, but mentally I was not. I was so mentally drained after the first day that it affected me a little physically the second day. I was not near as steady on my aim the second day and my focus was not as acute as the first day. I still managed a good X count the second day but shot a nine to go with 26 X's. Good X count's does not get you in the shootoff. All ten's do! I will be better prepaired in 2009.

Take care,

Kendall


----------



## the switchback

JAVI said:


> Other than the responsibility to represent the sponsor to the best of my ability there is no difference. The one exception would be contractually agreed apon participation in certain tournaments which I might not otherwise attend.


How do you get started and how long did it take to get your sponsers. (not sure where to start, definatley want to pursue this)


----------



## Hutnicks

OK I'll pop another one out here. I _*think*_ it was Tom Watson who said when he tees it up it is like stepping into a cool dimly lit quiet room. That was an image I could readily identify with.

What is the best description you guys can find to describe your feeling when you are "switched ON"?


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

Hutnicks said:


> OK I'll pop another one out here. I _*think*_ it was Tom Watson who said when he tees it up it is like stepping into a cool dimly lit quiet room. That was an image I could readily identify with.
> 
> What is the best description you guys can find to describe your feeling when you are "switched ON"?


When I am switched on, I am guessing that you are referring to being in the zone, I feel like I am in a world all my own and the shot sequence is such that it feels effortless. Everything is flowing in rythem and synch. I don't get those days as often as I used to, but I also don't get to practice like I want to either. When I have time to practice everyday, the zone comes more readily.


----------



## Unk Bond

Do you spend a lot of time working on your bow.Or do you just shoot your bow, once you have it set up with minor checks. :wink:

Do have, or use a marked arrow .That you might check your bow with before a match.


----------



## warped Arrow

What has been the most significantly changing event in your career? How did it change you?


----------



## warped Arrow

What advise would you give to the inspiring archer?


----------



## warped Arrow

What is the one thing yuo havent done yet that you want to accomplish?


----------



## mnjeff

*training or shooting log book*

how many of you use one?


----------



## 2fingers

I wouldnt call it a log book but i have MY shooting keys on a page i read EVERY day before i shoot. If i am haveing a bad day i will reread it and some times its like dooooooooooooooh . :cocktail:


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

Unk Bond said:


> Do you spend a lot of time working on your bow.Or do you just shoot your bow, once you have it set up with minor checks. :wink:
> 
> Do have, or use a marked arrow .That you might check your bow with before a match.


If I have a bow setup and it is performing well, I just pick it up and shoot it. I have a coule of other bows that I can setup and tinker with. I don't have an arrow that I use, but when I have everything right and the bow is performing well, I do mark my cam with a silver sharpee. If my marks move I know something has changed and I deal with it accordingly. I can check my cam marks at anytime. It only takes a glance to see if everything is still in position.


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

warped Arrow said:


> What has been the most significantly changing event in your career? How did it change you?


Having a child. It changed the way I look at everything, even my archery. If I have a bad day on the archery range I don't dwell on it. I just look at my little girl and I forget all about my bad day at the range.


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

warped Arrow said:


> What advise would you give to the inspiring archer?


Practice, practice, practice and be sure you are having fun. Good form and scores do not come overnight. If you have a bad day of practicing, don't worry about it and try to figure out what caused the bad day. Keep an open mind. It helps when trying to figure out problems that you may be having. Also try to listen to top archers. A lot can be learned by just listening to what people are saying.

Hope this helps,

Kendall


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

warped Arrow said:


> What is the one thing yuo havent done yet that you want to accomplish?


That's an easy question. I would love to win Vegas.:wink:


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

mnjeff said:


> how many of you use one?


Currently I do not use one but it is not a bad idea. I just may start using one.


----------



## GATOR-EYE

Let me try to get this thought out......

Do you ever get to a point where you say "This is my shot and I am not changing a thing intil next year. All I am going to do is practise this shot,in this order,with this form, with this equipment."

Seems a lot of archers (like me) are always changing something,like form, hand placement, draw length, equipment, anchor points....ect...


----------



## Blue X

*Physical training seems unimportant to compound archers*

Archers are classified as athletes. I can see from looking at top recurve archers that follow a training plan that includes a lot of physical training. They look like athletes in every way both physicaly and mentaly.

Top compound archers don't always look like athletes. Compound archers don't seem to follow any set training plan other than Practicing . This is why most don't look like athletes. It looks to me compound archers are lacking in conditioning and overall training. As we store energy in the body some percent is left in the muscles. It makes good sence to follow a physical training plan to better handle the small percent of stored energy in some muscles.

My questions is: Do you follow a traing plan to improve your overall athletic ability?

If not, why not?

Why does this seem unimportant to compound archery?
Blue X


----------



## mnjeff

*training*

do you take time off from training or train yr round?


----------



## mnjeff

*video or pictures*

who videos there shoots/training or takes pictures?


----------



## DRFrance

jonabxring said:


> It is written that before becoming like something; in this case a "PRO", one must first begin to think and act like what they desire to become.
> What would you consider to be the biggest change in your thoughts and actions since becoming a pro?




The changes will be different for many of us depending on our family lives and obligations. My thought on how I changed to become dedicated to shoot as a Pro follow. 

I literally designed my life, my living, and my house and real estate around my goals of 3D and target shooting year-round. My life changed by becoming dedicated to eating more healthy and getting the right kind of exercise to maintain a better endurance. Many know that I shoot around 67-68# of draw weight for almost everything, even indoor spots (except NAA with a 60# limit). This is much more draw weight than most prefer to shoot, but transfers over well for 3D and having muscle and breath control is critical to a solid aim. My schedule changed to incorporate 3-6 hours each day to shoot, practice yardage, and/or work on equipment. It is like having a 2nd full time job for me. My living with all the extra expenses has become very modest. I earn less of an income with fewer hours of employment to allow the additional training, but gain satisfaction and invaluable experience during my journey to shoot well all while on a tight budget. I don't have a family really, except those I see at the events each weekend are like a 2nd family. My thoughts have changed somewhat to build a certain type of psychological strength to become clear. I mean peaceful with each shot. Not thinking of anything in the world except the location of my sight pin and centering it. Shoot it and forget it knowing that my process was executed as best I'm able, and trusting the result. That is worth every X and bonus ring I've ever shot as a tip right there. As for my actions, I have changed very little. I still like to joke around and have fun, but I try to keep it tempered to the circumstances. Profanity and drinking do not fit the type. It is a higher standard of conduct in general. Most of the pros I've shared the line with are quality people. It is my honor to share space with them and learn from them. There is much more to this than just being able to shoot 60X scores. 

Hope this helps get an inside look to many of the sacrafices a hopeful professional archer may have to make to climb their way up and improve their own learned talent.

Good luck to everyone and aim peacefully.

Don


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

GATOR-EYE said:


> Let me try to get this thought out......
> 
> Do you ever get to a point where you say "This is my shot and I am not changing a thing intil next year. All I am going to do is practise this shot,in this order,with this form, with this equipment."
> 
> Seems a lot of archers (like me) are always changing something,like form, hand placement, draw length, equipment, anchor points....ect...


Until someone starts shooting perfect at every tournament and winning every tournament, then I would guess that we all are striving for perfection. The only way I see to ever get to that level, is to practice and try different things. I know on my bows, if I get it tuned like I want it, I will still tinker with the mass weight of the bow to get a better feel and hold. I do sometimes get one exactly like I want it and then I will shoot it until I wear the string or cable out on it. Then the whole process starts over again.

Hope this helps,

Kendall


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

Blue X said:


> Archers are classified as athletes. I can see from looking at top recurve archers that follow a training plan that includes a lot of physical training. They look like athletes in every way both physicaly and mentaly.
> 
> Top compound archers don't always look like athletes. Compound archers don't seem to follow any set training plan other than Practicing . This is why most don't look like athletes. It looks to me compound archers are lacking in conditioning and overall training. As we store energy in the body some percent is left in the muscles. It makes good sence to follow a physical training plan to better handle the small percent of stored energy in some muscles.
> 
> My questions is: Do you follow a traing plan to improve your overall athletic ability?
> 
> Why does this seem unimportant to compound archery?
> Blue X


If not, why not?


Currently I do not have a physical training program. I am fixing to start one though. I feel like at my age it is going to beneficial for me to have one in order to compete with the youg guns. I am going to do mostly cardio with a little bit of weight training.


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

mnjeff said:


> do you take time off from training or train yr round?


I usually take of from the middle of September to the end of December for hunting season. I may have to reconsider this though and try to get some kind of practice in every week of the year.


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

mnjeff said:


> who videos there shoots/training or takes pictures?


I don't but probably should. I may start since you asked the question.


----------



## Lien2

What BT release can you guys recommend? I have been a trigger finger/command shooter and would like to take my game to the next level. Sponsorships aside, PM if you have to. 

Lien2


----------



## CHAMPION2

Pm sent from a amateur target shooter


----------



## jallis

there have been some really good questions and some really excellent and rather frank responses. now if only more pro's from more sporting disciplines would be more open and accessable to the public....

well enough of that rant....

kendall.. or any other pros

what is your current setup? bow? poundage? do you stay with a certain range with all your bows? 

what arrows do you shoot? what vanes did you settle on? 

thanks

joe


----------



## jallis

more setup questions

what sight do you use.... do you carry a backup? do you usa a magnified scope? do you use fiber or pins or some other like crosshairs, etc? do you a peep? does it have a clarifier or verifier?

if you don't me asking what brand did you decide on? did you feel that any one particular brand of sight, peep, scope better suited your eyesight, shooting particulars, or was it sponsor specific?

thnaks


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

jallis said:


> there have been some really good questions and some really excellent and rather frank responses. now if only more pro's from more sporting disciplines would be more open and accessable to the public....
> 
> well enough of that rant....
> 
> kendall.. or any other pros
> 
> what is your current setup? bow? poundage? do you stay with a certain range with all your bows?
> 
> what arrows do you shoot? what vanes did you settle on?
> 
> thanks
> 
> joe


Hey Joe,

My current setup is a Conquest 4 with the Max Cam at 80%. I have a 29" draw and I generally shoot between 57 and 60 pounds. For indoors I am shooting 2712's at 30.5" with 220gr pro points. I have them fletched with Flex-Fletch 3.10 shield cut veins. I am using Beiter 19/2 Hunter nocks. This setup has really been shooting well the past couple of weeks. For NAA Indoor, I shoot 2315's at 30.5" with 200gr pro points and 3" feathers. I use the same Beiter nocks. With all my setups I am using a QAD drop away rest and I add quite a bit of mass weight to the bow. My bows usually weigh somewhere around 7 pounds, maybe a little more.

My field setup is basically the same as above with only the arrows being different. I shoot 420 X10 Protours with 110gr points at 28". They are fletched with 1.87 shield cut Flex-Fletch veins on top of a 4" wrap.

Hope this is what you were looking for,

Kendall


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

jallis said:


> more setup questions
> 
> what sight do you use.... do you carry a backup? do you usa a magnified scope? do you use fiber or pins or some other like crosshairs, etc? do you a peep? does it have a clarifier or verifier?
> 
> if you don't me asking what brand did you decide on? did you feel that any one particular brand of sight, peep, scope better suited your eyesight, shooting particulars, or was it sponsor specific?
> 
> thnaks


Currently I am shooting the Axcel AX3000 and I feel as though it is the best sight on the market. I leveled mine up last year and have not had to touch it.

I always take two bows to every tournament I go to.

I am shooting a 120X scope with a 3X lens and painted on dot. I am shooting a SuperBall housing with a 3/32" apeture and no clarifier or verifier. The reason that I shoot a SuperBall peep is because the lighting is not the same everywhere I go. With the interchangeable apetures you can quickly change your sight picture without taking out your peep. 

I have been shooting the 120X scopes for about 15 years and I am playing with different scopes now because I don't see quite as well indoors as I used to.

I am sponsored by Axcel but even if I wasn't, I would still be shooting an Axcel sight. I am not sponsored by Specialty Archery or 120X. The reason that I shoot them is because they fit my needs.

Take care,

Kendall


----------



## jallis

kendall,

thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, it is greatly appreciated. 

one thing i noticed that jumped out at me was the difference in your arrow lengths (and type of) between indoors and outdoors. why is this? also, why do you shoot x10's in field and not indoors... i take it that in the sanctioning body you shoot in there are certain requirements for arrow types, weights, diameter, etc..? if so could you point me to where i can read up on these rules...

again thanks

joe




60Xbulldog60X said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> My current setup is a Conquest 4 with the Max Cam at 80%. I have a 29" draw and I generally shoot between 57 and 60 pounds. For indoors I am shooting 2712's at 30.5" with 220gr pro points. I have them fletched with Flex-Fletch 3.10 shield cut veins. I am using Beiter 19/2 Hunter nocks. This setup has really been shooting well the past couple of weeks. For NAA Indoor, I shoot 2315's at 30.5" with 200gr pro points and 3" feathers. I use the same Beiter nocks. With all my setups I am using a QAD drop away rest and I add quite a bit of mass weight to the bow. My bows usually weigh somewhere around 7 pounds, maybe a little more.
> 
> My field setup is basically the same as above with only the arrows being different. I shoot 420 X10 Protours with 110gr points at 28". They are fletched with 1.87 shield cut Flex-Fletch veins on top of a 4" wrap.
> 
> Hope this is what you were looking for,
> 
> Kendall


----------



## jallis

kendall,

once again many thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions... it helps me to get a feel on the equipment that i need to look at. even though i am legally blind i think i can learn alot from professional shooter like yourself.

currently i am starting to take a look at red dot scopes since they don't seem to require peep shights which i find extrmely difficult to use... what has worked for me the past few years is refining my stance, technique, draw, and a consistant repeatable anchor point. even though the x is blurry for me at ten yards i can still hit it consistantly. i know i'll never be able to compete, but that is okay with me because i love to shoot. i average about 100-200 shots a day into a spiderweb target....

whoops.....i'm meadering about......thanks for listening

joe



60Xbulldog60X said:


> Currently I am shooting the Axcel AX3000 and I feel as though it is the best sight on the market. I leveled mine up last year and have not had to touch it.
> 
> I always take two bows to every tournament I go to.
> 
> I am shooting a 120X scope with a 3X lens and painted on dot. I am shooting a SuperBall housing with a 3/32" apeture and no clarifier or verifier. The reason that I shoot a SuperBall peep is because the lighting is not the same everywhere I go. With the interchangeable apetures you can quickly change your sight picture without taking out your peep.
> 
> I have been shooting the 120X scopes for about 15 years and I am playing with different scopes now because I don't see quite as well indoors as I used to.
> 
> I am sponsored by Axcel but even if I wasn't, I would still be shooting an Axcel sight. I am not sponsored by Specialty Archery or 120X. The reason that I shoot them is because they fit my needs.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Kendall


----------



## 60Xbulldog60X

Hey Joe, 

The norm for Indoor shooting is basically shoot the biggest arrow that you can shoot for line grabbing capability. The reason that I shoot the longer arrows for indoors is to break the spine of the arrow down which enables them to be shot at lower poundage. Adding a lot of point weight also aids in breaking the spine down. In the NFAA (National Field Archery Association), there currently is no shaft size limitation so most people shoot the biggest arrows that they can shoot effectively. You can google the National Field Archery Association and then go right to the NFAA website and they have the Rules and Constitution on the site.

The 2315 shafts I shoot for NAA (National Archery Association) tournaments because they do have an arrow size restriction in place. The largest diameter shaft that can be shot is 9.3mm or in lamens terms 23/64". They also have a 60 pound max draw weight limit and they strictly enforce both of these rules.

The reason that X10's are shot outdoors is because it is a small diameter shaft with a good amount of weight. My shafts weighed in at 361gr last year and I was getting about 268 fps out of them. Not real fast, but with the dynamics of the shaft, they do not drop off at long yardage like bigger shafts do. This type of shaft is really good in the wind. Unless the wind is blowing really hard, the wind does not have a great effect on these shafts. Also, as flat as these arrows shoot, it really helps with your anchor point from short to long distances. Your anchor point does not move nearly as much with these shafts vs bigger shafts.

Hope this helps,

Kendall


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jallis said:


> kendall,
> 
> once again many thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions... it helps me to get a feel on the equipment that i need to look at. even though i am legally blind i think i can learn alot from professional shooter like yourself.
> 
> currently i am starting to take a look at red dot scopes since they don't seem to require peep shights which i find extrmely difficult to use... what has worked for me the past few years is refining my stance, technique, draw, and a consistant repeatable anchor point. even though the x is blurry for me at ten yards i can still hit it consistantly. i know i'll never be able to compete, but that is okay with me because i love to shoot. i average about 100-200 shots a day into a spiderweb target....
> 
> whoops.....i'm meadering about......thanks for listening
> 
> joe


Joe,

I have not shot the red dot scopes that you are referring to. I have seen them but I haven't shot them. They seem to work well for firearms, so I see no reason that they would not work on a bow. You might even look at a laser site. I have not shot them either, but it may be worth looking at. I'm not sure whether you would like to compete or not, but if so, I would take a look at the NFAA website and see if these types of sites are legal. If you are just shooting for fun, don't worry about it and have as much fun as you can. 

I wished I could shoot 100-200 arrows everyday. With the schedule I work, that is impossible.

How do you like that spyderweb target?

Kendall


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## jallis

kendall,

thanks for explaning in laymans terms your use of differing arrow sizes and weights.. which x10 do you shoot with your current bow? the list of sizes is pretty long and i haven't been able to find a size chart for the x10 or the ace's for that matter. the acc were no problem.

the spiderweb target i shoot is the 48"x48" with 4 layers and it cost about $660 plus about $75 for shipping. i have put about 2000 arrows into now and it shows very very little wear. pulling the arrows out is extremely easy. i really like how the target holds the arrows just like they are shot off the bow. it shows how the bow is tuned. i put on a set of heavy duty casters which i got from home depot. the target is heavy at about 300lbs shipped. one other thing i noticed is you need to use curtain rod holders(made of metal and shape kind like a stretched j... do a search on this site for spiderweb target and you will see a picture of the curtain rod holder i am talking about...you can also use saunders target pins which i have on order that are long and ringed to better stay in. let me know if you want some pictures of the target with arrows in it.

take care and have a good day at work

joe


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## 60Xbulldog60X

jallis said:


> kendall,
> 
> thanks for explaning in laymans terms your use of differing arrow sizes and weights.. which x10 do you shoot with your current bow? the list of sizes is pretty long and i haven't been able to find a size chart for the x10 or the ace's for that matter. the acc were no problem.
> 
> the spiderweb target i shoot is the 48"x48" with 4 layers and it cost about $660 plus about $75 for shipping. i have put about 2000 arrows into now and it shows very very little wear. pulling the arrows out is extremely easy. i really like how the target holds the arrows just like they are shot off the bow. it shows how the bow is tuned. i put on a set of heavy duty casters which i got from home depot. the target is heavy at about 300lbs shipped. one other thing i noticed is you need to use curtain rod holders(made of metal and shape kind like a stretched j... do a search on this site for spiderweb target and you will see a picture of the curtain rod holder i am talking about...you can also use saunders target pins which i have on order that are long and ringed to better stay in. let me know if you want some pictures of the target with arrows in it.
> 
> take care and have a good day at work
> 
> joe


Hey Joe,

I am shooting 420 X10 Protours at the moment. You should be able to go to the Easton website and look at an arrow chart for what you need. The Protours were developed with the compound in mind. They are tapered at the front end of the shaft whereas the regular X10's are barrel shaped (Tapered at both ends) I had no problem tuning them up. 

I looked at the spiderweb targets at the Indoor Nationals and liked what I saw. The proshop that I practice at uses the block targets and they are good targets, but they do not last very long. When you have about a half dozen guys capable of shooting 60X's most of the time, they do not last long. I talked to a good friend that is in a club that uses the spiderweb targets and he said they lasted them 4 years before they had to do anything to them. Even then, they just refurbished them. I shot on them right after they refurbished them and they looked and shot like new. For just a little more money and twice the life, it should be a no-brainer for the owner of the shop. Plus the cost of refurbishing should be a great cost saver without the need to buy a new target.

Thanks,

Kendall


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## jallis

kendall,

i'll go to the easton site again and see if i can get the protours, x10, and the ace charts up.. i am amazed though at the number of choices weight wise that the x10s, protours, and ace's come in.

after shooting my carpet target for over ten years i had enough. i was beginning to require a degree in bodybuilding in order to pull out my acc's. what a chore it was. after shooting the spiderweb target, i can't for the life of me, understand why i put up with the carpet target as long as i did. i put heavy casters on the spiderweb, but i may end up building a platform to get the target up another foot to a foot and half.

joe



60Xbulldog60X said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> I am shooting 420 X10 Protours at the moment. You should be able to go to the Easton website and look at an arrow chart for what you need. The Protours were developed with the compound in mind. They are tapered at the front end of the shaft whereas the regular X10's are barrel shaped (Tapered at both ends) I had no problem tuning them up.
> 
> I looked at the spiderweb targets at the Indoor Nationals and liked what I saw. The proshop that I practice at uses the block targets and they are good targets, but they do not last very long. When you have about a half dozen guys capable of shooting 60X's most of the time, they do not last long. I talked to a good friend that is in a club that uses the spiderweb targets and he said they lasted them 4 years before they had to do anything to them. Even then, they just refurbished them. I shot on them right after they refurbished them and they looked and shot like new. For just a little more money and twice the life, it should be a no-brainer for the owner of the shop. Plus the cost of refurbishing should be a great cost saver without the need to buy a new target.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kendall


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## twisted1600

Have you seen my Dad?:sad:


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## 60Xbulldog60X

What does he look like?


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## proXarchery

indoor game question? do most of the pros here practice at home or at a range with no one around to get the best practice or do you shoot leagues and practice other times like other guys? ive found focus is terrible some times at league night because of different things


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## 60X

I shoot both at my home range and at the club during leagues. I prefer not to shoot leagues. If I want to shoot my 3d rig or work on something the league can cut into that and be a set back. On the other hand shooting a league can be a good thing because that score counts for something. Shooting at the local club can be tougher to focus. You hear everything...every little conversation can be heard on the line. At a big shoot there is so much noise you don't pay any attention to it and just shoot. I vary my indoor practice to what I need. I need to set a goal to strive for to keep motivated inside. If I just keep shooting and shooting I can get burnt out easy. After that a bad round or two can hurt the confidence and then I'll change stuff that doesn't need changed.


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## TN ARCHER

*Grip?*

Which grip and why?
Low wrist.

Med wrist.

High wrist.


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## 60Xbulldog60X

I choose the low wrist grip. I have tried the high and medium grips and I just do not hold the bow as steady and is not nearly as comfortable as the low wrist. I only know of one archer that has shot a high wrist grip all his life and been very successful and that is the one and only Dean Pridgeon.

Hope this helps,

Kendall


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## Daniel Boone

*Just a thought*



60Xbulldog60X said:


> I choose the low wrist grip. I have tried the high and medium grips and I just do not hold the bow as steady and is not nearly as comfortable as the low wrist. I only know of one archer that has shot a high wrist grip all his life and been very successful and that is the one and only Dean Pridgeon.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Kendall



Mathews Apex Grips are consider a high wrist grip. 
DB


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## field14

Daniel Boone said:


> Mathews Apex Grips are consider a high wrist grip.
> DB


By TODAY'S standards, you are partially right, Dan....but they are FAR from "high wristed grips"....

Take a look at Jager Grips...the BEST models he puts out...THOSE are HIGH WRIST GRIPS....

http://www.jagerarchery.com/BEST.htm

And YES....you CAN GET THEM FOR COMPOUND BOWS TOO... I had one for my Martin Scepter4...

In the past, even Bear Archery offered a variety of grips for their TamberlaneII compounds...low, medium, or high. At that time, I elected the high wristed grip...and shot very, very well with it.

HOYT, USA....on their ProVantage line...same thing...you could get low, medium, or HIGH WRIST grips....I shot medium cuz their high was just too high.

PSE...same thing....

So....compare the Mathews Apex "high wrist" and you will see that they are exceedingly LOW compared to a "real" high wrist grip.

field14:tongue::wink:


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## Daniel Boone

*Go buy a Sherwd High wrist grip*



field14 said:


> By TODAY'S standards, you are partially right, Dan....but they are FAR from "high wristed grips"....
> 
> Take a look at Jager Grips...the BEST models he puts out...THOSE are HIGH WRIST GRIPS....
> 
> http://www.jagerarchery.com/BEST.htm
> 
> And YES....you CAN GET THEM FOR COMPOUND BOWS TOO... I had one for my Martin Scepter4...
> 
> In the past, even Bear Archery offered a variety of grips for their TamberlaneII compounds...low, medium, or high. At that time, I elected the high wristed grip...and shot very, very well with it.
> 
> HOYT, USA....on their ProVantage line...same thing...you could get low, medium, or HIGH WRIST grips....I shot medium cuz their high was just too high.
> 
> PSE...same thing....
> 
> So....compare the Mathews Apex "high wrist" and you will see that they are exceedingly LOW compared to a "real" high wrist grip.
> 
> field14:tongue::wink:



Compare it to the Mathews and its the same. Dean shot the sherwd on all his Mathews bows.

DB


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## field14

Daniel Boone said:


> Compare it to the Mathews and its the same. Dean shot the sherwd on all his Mathews bows.
> 
> DB


Dan, 
I had MY APEX the way it came, and a Martin Scepter 4 with the BEST grip on it at the same time...The aren't even close to being the "SAME". The truth is in HOLDING THE BOW...not just looking at them and thinking they 'are the same.'

The Apex is NOT a "high wrist grip" the "same" as a BEST....not even close.

Have YOU ever shot with a BEST STLE grip on a bow?

field14:wink::tongue:


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## JAVI

Just for clarity, with a high grip the wrist is raised and in line with the knuckle of the index finger. This gives a good flat line and raises the point of contact to the position between the thumb and forefinger. This grip requires a good bit of strength to use consistently as the tendency when tired is to drop the wrist. Hench the advent of raised palm grips such as the Jager and others which provide support to help keep the wrist from collapsing. 

With the medium & low grip, the pressure is lowered to the fleshy part of the thumb. This allows the hand to remain relaxed throughout the shot, reducing the tendency to torque or twist the bow. The medium-to-low grip is the preferred method of many of the top archers.

The current crop of compound bows including the Mathews Conquest and Conquest Apex series are medium to low wrist design, and although they can certainly be shot with a high wrist unless one is blessed with wrists of steel it would be difficult to be as accurate doing so when you tired.


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## Hutnicks

Anyone have a few photos illustrating the grip styles. A shot of the Matthews compared to the Jaeger Best might help the discussion along.


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## JAVI

Hutnicks said:


> Anyone have a few photos illustrating the grip styles. A shot of the Matthews compared to the Jaeger Best might help the discussion along.


Ok here is a Mathews with a low wrist style....:wink:


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## field14

Hutnicks said:


> Anyone have a few photos illustrating the grip styles. A shot of the Matthews compared to the Jaeger Best might help the discussion along.


It is MORE SIMPLE than that...just go to the jager website....look at the BEST GRIP STYLES, and then flip over and look at the REPLACEMENT GRIPS for the Mathews or any of the other compounds...and make the comparison.

You will clearly see that they are NOT same!

http://www.jagerarchery.com/BEST.htm for the BEST style grips. You CAN get them for your compound...Paul will make you one....

And for the replacement grips or add-ons for the compounds:

http://www.jagerarchery.com/compound.htm

If you scroll about half-way down, you will see that Paul makes grips for the MATHEWS APEX.."add-on" style that are the SAME wrist height...

Now if you think those 'add-ons" for the APEX are the SAME as the high wrist BEST grips????? Welll......I "see" said the blind man...:wink::tongue:

field14


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## Hutnicks

JAVI said:


> Ok here is a Mathews with a low wrist style....:wink:


Excellent, great illustration.


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## Hutnicks

field14 said:


> It is MORE SIMPLE than that...just go to the jager website....look at the BEST GRIP STYLES, and then flip over and look at the REPLACEMENT GRIPS for the Mathews or any of the other compounds...and make the comparison.
> 
> You will clearly see that they are NOT same!
> 
> http://www.jagerarchery.com/BEST.htm for the BEST style grips. You CAN get them for your compound...Paul will make you one....
> 
> And for the replacement grips or add-ons for the compounds:
> 
> http://www.jagerarchery.com/compound.htm
> 
> If you scroll about half-way down, you will see that Paul makes grips for the MATHEWS APEX.."add-on" style that are the SAME wrist height...
> 
> Now if you think those 'add-ons" for the APEX are the SAME as the high wrist BEST grips????? Welll......I "see" said the blind man...:wink::tongue:
> 
> field14


 Yup, but for a lot of folks that may be reading this thread, showing hands on the grip makes the point a little clearer.


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## JAVI

Here is Jenny with a medium high grip on her re-curve and Vic with a medium low grip


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## Hutnicks

Excellent illustrations. And great photos as well. Thanks.


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## Daniel Boone

*Now that high wrist*



JAVI said:


> Here is Jenny with a medium high grip on her re-curve and Vic with a medium low grip



Never seen a grip like that.
DB


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## field14

Daniel Boone said:


> Never seen a grip like that.
> DB


Then you haven't seen the Jager BEST grip. Those and other "custom grips" being made for those that want something higher than the low wrist of the Apex and other low wrist bows...

I used to like high wristed grips...but not so anymore. Just got away from them, and now find them awkward for me and very uncomfortable...they feel like they are binding me up and putting pressure on the forearm.

Years ago there was a common grip on many bows known as the "California High-Wrist grip. Golden Eagle recurves, Astro compounds and recurves, and the Black Widow recurve were common ones that had this grip style that I can remember, since I had those models of bows and shot very well with them. My Astro Regency, although a "slow wheelie bow" was one of the most accurate and forgiving and comfortably gripped bows I've ever owned. The California High Wrist was up there...but NOT as high as the current BEST style grips.

field14:wink::tongue:


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## JAVI

field14 said:


> Then you haven't seen the Jager BEST grip. Those and other "custom grips" being made for those that want something higher than the low wrist of the Apex and other low wrist bows...
> 
> I used to like high wristed grips...but not so anymore. Just got away from them, and now find them awkward for me and very uncomfortable...they feel like they are binding me up and putting pressure on the forearm.
> 
> Years ago there was a common grip on many bows known as the "California High-Wrist grip. Golden Eagle recurves, Astro compounds and recurves, and the Black Widow recurve were common ones that had this grip style that I can remember, since I had those models of bows and shot very well with them. My Astro Regency, although a "slow wheelie bow" was one of the most accurate and forgiving and comfortably gripped bows I've ever owned. The California High Wrist was up there...but NOT as high as the current BEST style grips.
> 
> field14:wink::tongue:


Here's a couple of different angle grips on a Hoyt... these are by Johnson Grips


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## field14

Sure not the 'same' as the "normal' grip of these low-wristed bows that are very, very similar in grip angle to the Apex!

My S4 with the Jager BEST angled grip on it was WAY, WAY higher than the standard grip on the APEX...and the APEX standard grip and the grip on the S4 were strkingly similar in grip angle...LOW wristed, that is, the biggest difference being the "hump" on the Apex grip that narrows down your contact zone

field14:tongue::wink:


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## promod1385

2fingers said:


> I wouldnt call it a log book but i have MY shooting keys on a page i read EVERY day before i shoot. If i am haveing a bad day i will reread it and some times its like dooooooooooooooh . :cocktail:


Shooting "keys" I have been working on a log book and would like to know what your shooting "keys" are (could you e-mail them to me)? Do you have your shot sequence written down? Do you pros do much in the way of meditation and visualization? 

I am very fundamentally sound and can shoot 300's, now i need to work on my mental game. I have been working on visualization and it has helped my game a ton but my mind still wanders and that is when i miss. Any good reads on the mental aspect of the shooting game?


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## JAVI

promod1385 said:


> Shooting "keys" I have been working on a log book and would like to know what your shooting "keys" are (could you e-mail them to me)? Do you have your shot sequence written down? Do you pros do much in the way of meditation and visualization?
> 
> I am very fundamentally sound and can shoot 300's, now i need to work on my mental game. I have been working on visualization and it has helped my game a ton but my mind still wanders and that is when i miss. Any good reads on the mental aspect of the shooting game?


Well I ain't 2-fingers but there are several good books on the mental side of the game. Lanny Bassham is one of the best but I also recommend Precision Archery by Steve Ruis and Claudia Stevenson.


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## field14

promod1385 said:


> Shooting "keys" I have been working on a log book and would like to know what your shooting "keys" are (could you e-mail them to me)? Do you have your shot sequence written down? Do you pros do much in the way of meditation and visualization?
> 
> I am very fundamentally sound and can shoot 300's, now i need to work on my mental game. I have been working on visualization and it has helped my game a ton but my mind still wanders and that is when i miss. _Any good reads on the mental aspect of the shooting game_?


Lanny Basham's "_With Winning in Mind_." I've read that book countless times...now just DOING IT religiously and not balking around or taking short-cuts!
a
field14


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## promod1385

So i got a copy of the book and started getting into it last night. It has some intersting things to say thats for sure. As far as talking about shooting keys and visualization. Do any of you practice anything like this? Do you video yourself or have a set warm up ritual etc? 

I have heard that with some pro's they do everything exactly the same from the moment they walk up to the line until they shoot the last arrow. Is this true? How important is the shot sequence?


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## JAVI

promod1385 said:


> So i got a copy of the book and started getting into it last night. It has some intersting things to say thats for sure. As far as talking about shooting keys and visualization. Do any of you practice anything like this? Do you video yourself or have a set warm up ritual etc?
> 
> I have heard that with some pro's they do everything exactly the same from the moment they walk up to the line until they shoot the last arrow. Is this true? How important is the shot sequence?


Yes....


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## promod1385

JAVI said:


> Yes....



Ok now that we have that covered any advice on how to manage this? Are there a few basic steps i should focus on when setting up and practicing my shot sequence?


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## Hutnicks

javi said:


> yes....


:d


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## JAVI

promod1385 said:


> Ok now that we have that covered any advice on how to manage this? Are there a few basic steps i should focus on when setting up and practicing my shot sequence?


Here is a little thing I wrote a while ago about the shot sequence.


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## promod1385

Excellent! Thank you Javi. I have been working on a shot sequence and i think i was complicating it a bit, then when problems arose that prevented me from executing it i made bad shots. I will simplify it and make sure to add steps when necessary. 

When looking at a coach how much should i expect to spend? I have heard the Ragsdales live close to me and some of the people i shoot with say they are really the only coaches in the MN/WI area worth talking to. Anyone know how to get ahold of them?


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## promod1385

Excellent! Thank you Javi. I have been working on a shot sequence and i think i was complicating it a bit, then when problems arose that prevented me from executing it i made bad shots. I will simplify it and make sure to add steps when necessary. 

When looking at a coach how much should i expect to spend? I have heard the Ragsdales live close to me and some of the people i shoot with say they are really the only coaches in the MN/WI area worth talking to. Anyone know how to get ahold of them?


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## HANK120X

On Easton X27 aluminum arrow. What length vane are the majority of pros using indoor on these arrows?


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## bowproPat

Bobmuley said:


> Is it worth it?
> 
> Is it worth the time and effort to get on top and to stay on top. I realize that question would be even more limited than just "any ole' pro"...


Hello Bob, I think I can answer that question for you as any old pro. I'm 78 now and do not shoot as a pro any longer but I was there when the PAA, NFAA, NAA and Maunfactures Association outlawed compounds and releases. It took us two years to reverse that miscarrage of archery justice. 
I knew and shot with all the "any old pros' then. We were the guys that dropped out of the PAA (Professional Archers Assciation) *IMO was it worth it, a resounding YES.* When I would put on a money tournament in the early days if my best friend and co producer of the early shoots on the West Coast John Williamson (Tom Jennings partner) did not win and I was less that 4th we lost money for that shoot. I never won Vegas or a Pro National title,( my best was 10th at the PAA Nationals in Pasadena CA .before compounds) but now *I can look back and know in my heart that all the time, work, practice, promotion was worth it because you can see great archers making a living today shooting a bow and arrow.* I don't now what all the pro's won this year in Vegas, but I heard that Page Pierce won both the USA Archery Tournament and the Vegas Tournament pro ladies and took home around $36,000.00 The men did better.

LOL now as I changed my aviatar to show what I look like at 77 right after the NFAA Nationals in Yankton. Im going to the NFAA Field Nationals in Yankton this year 2019 and would love to meet some of you guys and gals.


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## bowproPat

Thanks Field14 for putting this one on Archery Talk. Tom it has and is a pleasure to know you are a good friend of mine and archery.


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## Bigallyoutdoors

Sponsors always have control over you,even in your personal life.You do not have to have a sponsor.


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