# Slick trick 100 mags tuning question???!



## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

Bump


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## Ehunter42 (Mar 3, 2010)

Have you spin tested to make sure the heads are good and straight? If so, you might try nock tuning.


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## SARASR (Oct 30, 2009)

^^^Agreed, make sure they are seated in the arrows straight, the Gold tip web site has a nice little section on this.
as above turning the nock will change the position of the arrows "seam" and can help may take some experimenting and you may need to do each arrow individually, 
If the above does not work try some bare shaft shooting if they do not shoot straight is either form or tune.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

I don't doubt that you're shooting good groups out to 50 but your set up isn't tuned dead nuts. If it was you wouldn't have started this thread because your broadheads and field points would already be hitting in the same spot.

Here.

http://www.eastonarchery.com/img/downloads/software/tuning_guide.pdf


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## Richard932 (Jul 6, 2010)

Mine work awesome out of the package. But I have 4 inch vanes.


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

Any more? I hate the thought of moving my rest as I am nuts about how my bow is tuned...


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## Tyler/MN (Jun 4, 2010)

Try the standards I had trouble getting the mags to shoot true to feild points also ad tryed standards and flew perfect without changing anything 


Sent from iPhone


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

PRO_DO said:


> Okay, I shoot a pse evo, 65lbs, 27.5 draw, carbon express mayhem arrows, and nap quick fletch with a 3 degree helical. My bow is dead nuts tuned out to 50 yards...shooting awesome groups. But when I throw a slick trick on, they sometimes fly high, or to the right. I really wanna learn how to broadhead tune so they fly the same with my field points, but I DON'T want to tune for a broadhead and only a broadhead. Any input would be great...so stressed


If you want to know how to tune (I am still learning) you will need to move your rest or nock point if everyhing else is correct. make adjustments to the tip of the arrow in the dirrection you want the FBBH to move. If you are hitting right, move it left, if it is hitting high, move rest down or nock point up. A little goes a long way, some times a hair width is all you need, I would rather have to move it twice than to over correct and fight to go back the other way. I also move one direction at a time, not vertical and horizontal at same time. Good luck.

Ches.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

If you are shooting over 280 FPS..all bets are off.
Generally speaking if you are shooting beyond 270fps, don't waste your time with head with cutting diameters larger than 1 3/16 - inch and that have blades longer than 3/4 - inch. Fast arrows just do better with smaller broadheads.


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

threetoe said:


> If you are shooting over 280 FPS..all bets are off.


The world is flat and they will never fly faster than the speed of sound....


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

Okay, I don't understand whT you guys are talking about when you say to move your rest and nocking point.? Once a bow is tuned, then it's perfect. Arrows are flying completely straight out of the bow, that is the definition of a "good tune". That being said, if you move your rest or nocking point, your set up is no longer "in tune" you guys know what I'm saying?


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

And I have tried that method, and then I talked to the local pro shop guy (state champ for 4 consecutive years) and he said anyone who tells you to move your rest is crazy. Once the bow is in tune, leave it alone, he said. I am not calling anyone out on their methods, I'm just repeating what I've been told from a very trustworthy archer.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

PRO_DO said:


> Okay, I don't understand whT you guys are talking about when you say to move your rest and nocking point.? Once a bow is tuned, then it's perfect. Arrows are flying completely straight out of the bow, that is the definition of a "good tune". That being said, if you move your rest or nocking point, your set up is no longer "in tune" you guys know what I'm saying?


We understand what you're saying but what it is you're not understanding is that your bow isn't in perfect tune. Know what I'm saying? lol



PRO_DO said:


> And I have tried that method, and then I talked to the local pro shop guy (state champ for 4 consecutive years) and he said anyone who tells you to move your rest is crazy. Once the bow is in tune, leave it alone, he said. I am not calling anyone out on their methods, I'm just repeating what I've been told from a very trustworthy archer.


If you don't want to move anything then buy a pack of expandables. That's what other people do who share the same kind of thinking. I'll give you $20 for your Tricks and you can put it towards your purchase.


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## BackwoodsZ71 (Nov 5, 2008)

someone correct me if I am wrong, but when you move your rest, say 1/64", left or right when broad head tuning, doesn't that affect the broad head MORE than the field tip??

So that 1/64" movement might move the broad head to the same POI as field point, with out the field point changing too much?

Im pretty new to tuning, but that is how I understood it after reading a thread by Nuts&Bolts


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

BackwoodsZ71 said:


> someone correct me if I am wrong, but when you move your rest, say 1/64", left or right when broad head tuning, doesn't that affect the broad head MORE than the field tip??
> 
> So that 1/64" movement might move the broad head to the same POI as field point, with out the field point changing too much?
> 
> Im pretty new to tuning, but that is how I understood it after reading a thread by Nuts&Bolts


Yes broadheads are more sensitive to fine tuning adjustments because the blades help to direct the flight path. That's why it's extra critical that you send them on the correct straight path to start with. Field points are much more forgiving than broadheads are and will group extremely well even if the bow is slightly out of tune. Broadheads wont.

Lets take the OP's problem for instance. He knows that his set up is close because he's obviously quite happy with his field point results. He's just not willing to risk jacking that up for the sake of killing a deer even tho it'll more than likely help him if he follows instruction. 

Most all of the basic tuning stuff anyone needs to know is in the link I provided. About the only thing it doesn't cover is cam lean adjustment.


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

BackwoodsZ71
That is my experience, or close to it. If the field tips move they don't move very much. I am no pro at this either but have been doing it for some years now. I have read that you can't do this or that and then others said you can. I try it myself and see if I can do it. I am always amazed at how such small movement will make an arrow change point of impact (FBBH's). If I have ever done anything wrong with FBBH tuning, it was moving too much at one time.
Pro_DO
I just had a new string and cables put on my bow, I could not shoot at the same dot with FP's cause I was breaking nocks, but my Fixed blade thunderheads were 11" or 12" off (High, a little left). Two nights and I am hitting same with both out to 40 yards. I hope to finish off this week back to 60 yards (I run out of back yard). Now at 60 yards my arrows don't touch, that's my poor shooting, but the group should be the same between FP & FBBH's. Good luck

Ches.


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

I have my bow laser tuned, paper tuned, walk back tuned, and long distance tuned. And I watch the pro shop guy do it, he's not some gander mountain dummy. IMHO I think of your bow is completely tuned, and your arrows fly straight out of the bow(field points) then your broadheads will. My bow is getting tuned as I am writing this so after it is all done I will shoot the tricks and try them. Also bought a box of carbon express maxima hunters, I think part of my problem is having under spined arrows, as I was using 250 Mayhems but switched to 350 maxima. Thanks for all your posts guys, maybe I am just not moving my rest correctly or not doing it right, I don't know, but to me the rest should stay where it is after its tuned because that is where your arrow FLYS STRAIGHT out of your bow. IMO


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

And to the guy who offered me the $20 for slick tricks, I have already shot rage for 3 years with decent results. They do shoot like field points but they suck as far as penetration, lost the biggest buck of my life due to poor penetration.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

Arrows that are correctly spined are definitely a must. When you broadhead tune you'll find out real quick if your spine it too stiff or too weak, if you know how to read arrow impacts between your fp's and bh's. Where your arrows hit in relation to one another will tell you exactly what you need to do next. Sometimes tightening your groups are as simple as twisting the limb bolts. Basically the main ingredient to getting any bow to shoot right is to match your arrow spine exactly to the force that is being applied to it or vice versus.



PRO_DO said:


> And to the guy who offered me the $20 for slick tricks, I have already shot rage for 3 years with decent results. They do shoot like field points but they suck as far as penetration, lost the biggest buck of my life due to poor penetration.


I never get tired of hearing bad story's about Rage's not penetrating, blades breaking, etc. Makes me smile every time. :smile:


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

^, i do gotta admit, they have pretty big holes. Never had a blade break but they bend to ****. Time to try a new head


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

You're definitely on the right track IMO. Hang with em' a little bit and you'll get em' dialed in.


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

Thanks man^ I'm waiting for the guy to get done with my bow at the pro shop, with some new correctly spined arrows, and my now tuned I should be good. Hopefully they fly straight or I might have to return em.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

If it comes back not shooting right I would question the dudes ability that's working on your bow haha.


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

He knows what he's doing lol I trust him. Been goin to him for years


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

If he's the same state champ that told you not to move your rest then I would suggest you not listen to him and do some studying on your own because he's feeding you a line a mile long. I've been in competitive archery long enough myself to know what's right and what isn't.


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

But how would moving your rest help anything at all? I understand it would get me to the field points and broadheads at the same POI, but then the bow would not be in tune. The definition of a good tune is having your arrow flying completely straight out of the bow, and by moving the rest, that goes against what all you guys want, or should want.


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

Maybe he's saying that because he prefers to just dial In his sights for broadheads but I get where he is coming from saying not to move my rest.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

PRO_DO said:


> Maybe he's saying that because he prefers to just dial In his sights for broadheads but I get where he is coming from saying not to move my rest.


You can do that and be okay. As long as your broadheads are grouping fine then that's really all that matters. 

Some people just like to take it a step further and get their broadheads and field points hitting the same and that's fine too. 

I'm of one of those anal guys that tunes both to hit the same out to at least 60 yards before I'll even hit the woods but to each their own. 

Both methods kill deer.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

PRO_DO said:


> But how would moving your rest help anything at all? I understand it would get me to the field points and broadheads at the same POI, but then the bow would not be in tune. The definition of a good tune is having your arrow flying completely straight out of the bow, and by moving the rest, that goes against what all you guys want, or should want.


If and when you get both your broadheads and your field points impacting the same place from 0-60 yards then you can bet your bottom dollar both will be in tune. That's just how the cookie crumbles, unless something's messed up.

The main reason some people prefer both to hit the same is so they can practice with their field points afterwards and still have the same POI as if they were shooting their broadheads and not have to worry about wrecking blades and all of that good stuff. 

It's a pretty common thing and not some big fallacy that some shop owners will lead you to believe.

They just want to throw a half ass tune on ya', get your money and send you down the road.

Precise tuning takes time and patience. It's not something that a fancy little laser can do. Time is money to them. 

Nobody ever said it was easy, but it's not hard once you learn how to do it.


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

^ do you mean by adjusting something first, or just screwing the tips on and shooting?


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

PRO_DO said:


> ^ do you mean by adjusting something first, or just screwing the tips on and shooting?


I'll start from the beginning.

The first step to tuning is:

Make sure your bow is in spec. If it's not then bring it to spec. 

That includes, making sure the ATA length is correct, brace height, cam timing, tiller adjustment, cam/idler lean

Next it to eyeball for centershot and nock height. No fancy gauges required for the steps that follow.

Next eyeball your sights and line your pins up with the string.

Next shoot up close about 10 yards and get your 20 yard pin hitting close to where it needs to be.

Next step back to 20 and set it for 20.

Next shoot two arrows. One with a broadhead and one with a field point.

Next come back here and tell us where they both are hitting and we can go from there.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

Here's a link to one of the better broadhead tuning threads that I've seen on this forum that should help out a bunch.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

That is a really good thread, thanks! I should get my bow back tonight or tomorrow. If my slicks aren't hitting dead nuts, then I'll give that a shot. I just wish I had someone to do it with me, as I'm 17 and got into this sport by interest, taught myself everything I know. Actually placed 2nd in the Ohio state shoot last year -_-


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

PRO_DO said:


> That is a really good thread, thanks! I should get my bow back tonight or tomorrow. If my slicks aren't hitting dead nuts, then I'll give that a shot. I just wish I had someone to do it with me, as I'm 17 and got into this sport by interest, taught myself everything I know. Actually placed 2nd in the Ohio state shoot last year -_-


Anytime man. I'd help you out in a heartbeat and be happy to do it if you lived closer. I'm self taught too for the most part. About everything I've learned has come from reading books and just shooting in general. I was pretty decent at one time myself but eventually got burnt out on going. Butting heads with people at bow shops for their inability to do stuff right for their customers led me to doing 100% of everything by myself. It was either do that or lose to everyone and I've never much cared for losing haha.


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

That's my goal eventually...to buy a bow press here soon and maybe have work in a pro shop to be taught all the things necessary to set my own bows up. Thanks again, will get back to you all shortly as to how my bow is shooting. My local pro shop guy said that whoever set it up (another pse shop a half hour from where I live because that's the closest shop that carries pro series pse) didn't tune it. He said the bus cables needed twisted and the cams werent in perfect timing, since it's a dual cam bow. Maybe this is all I need to shoot these broadheads straight, seeing 99% of people who shoot slick tricks say they shoot right with your field points.


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## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

PRO_DO;1064956671[B said:


> ]But how would moving your rest help anything at all? I understand it would get me to the field points and broadheads at the same POI, but then the bow would not be in tune.[/B] The definition of a good tune is having your arrow flying completely straight out of the bow, and by moving the rest, that goes against what all you guys want, or should want.


You tune for the broadhead and the field point follows. The FP is so much more forgiving. The broadhead will point out issues with your tune, in this case nocking point and poss. rest position. Get the up and down right first then proceed to the left right issue. One example of a spine issue is if you move the rest and both arrows move the same distance. If tune and spine are true the FP will move but it will move much less than the BH when adjustments are made. I've seen guys buy two sets of sights instead of tuning the bow. If your arrows do not impact the target square penetration suffers. Mechanical and fixed BHs will benefit from this additional tuning.


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## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

Good summary 454casull
I never knew why people would post that they have the problem of FP move the same as FBBH's move. Mine have always moved, but just a little. I also fix vertical first then horizontal. Read somewhere that vertical being off can effect horizontal. Don't know if it is true but I also follow it. 
My problem has always been that when I get back to 60 yards, it is hard to make small enough movements to not overcompensate.


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## gbear (May 30, 2009)

Is the guy you trust to tune your bow holding YOUR bow exactly the same way you do, and his draw lenght is exactly the same? No. Then he is not tuning your bow for you he is tuning it for him. 
You should learn to tune it yourself. It's not hard and you don't need a bunch of fancy gizmos to do it. 
There are plenty of methods to do this, and no end to the different variations you can find here.
The maxima 350s should help a lot with your BH flight. You were definately underspined with the 250s. 
Be sure and spin check every BH on each arrow you intend to shot with one.


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## bmelvin (Aug 22, 2012)

ozarksbuckslaye said:


> Here's a link to one of the better broadhead tuning threads that I've seen on this forum that should help out a bunch.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460


Ozark,

I am new to bow hunting and i am having a similar problem with the tricks as the OP. My FP are grouping well out to 50 but when when i shoot my slick tricks they are right and high. I tried that broad tuning procedure and my FP moved the same distance as the BH with every adjustment. I could not get the BH and the FP to have the same POI i ran out of room on my rest moving to the left. So i brought everything back to where it was when i started and have my FP grouping well again out to 50. Any advice where i should go from here? Thanks for your time


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

ozarksbuckslaye said:


> If and when you get both your broadheads and your field points impacting the same place from 0-60 yards then you can bet your bottom dollar both will be in tune..... The main reason some people prefer both to hit the same is so they can practice with their field points afterwards and still have the same POI as if they were shooting their broadheads and not have to worry about wrecking blades and all of that good stuff.
> Precise tuning takes time and patience. It's not something that a fancy little laser can do. Time is money to them.
> Nobody ever said it was easy, but it's not hard once you learn how to do it.


+++
And the real pros know that shooting Large fixed blade broadheads DO WIERD THINGS past 280fps.

You can dismiss the work simply by choosing Mechanicals.
Mechanicals were made for those who either don't know how to tune a bow, don't want too or are lazy.
Make mine a fixed blade. I prefer Slick Trick 100's

Purchase Joe Bell's outstanding book, "Technical Bowhunting".


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## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

bmelvin said:


> Ozark,
> 
> I am new to bow hunting and i am having a similar problem with the tricks as the OP. My FP are grouping well out to 50 but when when i shoot my slick tricks they are right and high. I tried that broad tuning procedure and my FP moved the same distance as the BH with every adjustment. I could not get the BH and the FP to have the same POI i ran out of room on my rest moving to the left. So i brought everything back to where it was when i started and have my FP grouping well again out to 50. Any advice where i should go from here? Thanks for your time


Back off or add poundage. If the group tightens up you probably have a spine issue either weak or stiff. it is not the holy grail answer but it will get you on track.


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## bmelvin (Aug 22, 2012)

I am shooting the 2012 Hoyt Vector Turbo at 65 lbs with a 28.5 draw length. Arrows are victory Vforce V3 350 with blazers. With that info which way should i go?


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## PRO_DO (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm done shooting slicks. They have horrible flight past 30 yards. My spines are good, bow is tuned, and my spin testing the arrows came back good! Going to return them for something else.


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## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

bmelvin said:


> I am shooting the 2012 Hoyt Vector Turbo at 65 lbs with a 28.5 draw length. Arrows are victory Vforce V3 350 with blazers. With that info which way should i go?


How long are your arrows? Take a turn out of her and give it a shot. If the span tightens you are weak if the span opens too stiff.


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## bmelvin (Aug 22, 2012)

Arrows are 29 in. I even bought Rages and those are shooting to the right as well just not as much as the slicks. Rages are going low and right and the Rages are going high and right


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## bmelvin (Aug 22, 2012)

I meant to say rages are going low and right and Slicks are going high and right


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## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

Drop her down a bit and see what happens.


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## ozarksbuckslaye (Jul 24, 2008)

bmelvin said:


> Ozark,
> 
> I am new to bow hunting and i am having a similar problem with the tricks as the OP. My FP are grouping well out to 50 but when when i shoot my slick tricks they are right and high. I tried that broad tuning procedure and my FP moved the same distance as the BH with every adjustment. I could not get the BH and the FP to have the same POI i ran out of room on my rest moving to the left. So i brought everything back to where it was when i started and have my FP grouping well again out to 50. Any advice where i should go from here? Thanks for your time


Yup I know just what you can do. As a matter of a fact I think the OP is experiencing the same spine trouble as well. 

You can decrease your draw weight just like 454 suggested.

If you can't close the gap between fp's and broadheads then it's definitely a spine issue. Broadheads will impact to the left if the spine is stiff and they will impact to the right if the arrow is too weak.

Here's another thing. If you can't close the vertical gap between fp's and broadheads by moving your rest up or down then it's a nocking point issue. Move your nock instead of your rest and that will undoubtedly close the gap between the two.

There's everyone's broadhead 101 for the day. It's all as simple as pie once you learn it and it's in the first link that I provided. :thumbs_up


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## bmelvin (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks for your time guys. Going to give it a try this weekend. Let ya know how i make out.


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## stevem174 (Nov 3, 2009)

PRO_DO said:


> I'm done shooting slicks. They have horrible flight past 30 yards. My spines are good, bow is tuned, and my spin testing the arrows came back good! Going to return them for something else.


Did you ask the local pro to help you with the broadhead issue? What was his solution?


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## dillio67 (Oct 1, 2004)

gbear said:


> Is the guy you trust to tune your bow holding YOUR bow exactly the same way you do, and his draw lenght is exactly the same? No. Then he is not tuning your bow for you he is tuning it for him.
> You should learn to tune it yourself. It's not hard and you don't need a bunch of fancy gizmos to do it.
> There are plenty of methods to do this, and no end to the different variations you can find here.
> The maxima 350s should help a lot with your BH flight. You were definately underspined with the 250s.
> Be sure and spin check every BH on each arrow you intend to shot with one.


X2 YOU need to tune the bow to YOU he can get it to a good starting point the rest is up to you IMHO


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