# Carbon Express Nano SSt, Nano X-Treme,ACE, X10



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm going over to Korea to get some NPXs, I'll let you know if they are as hardy as someone who hung a 10kg weight supported at both ends for 24 hours without failure or permanent bending claim them to be.


----------



## GML (Nov 17, 2008)

Awesome, cant take the fact that every time I shoot a nock out, my ACG's are stuffed. I was really impressed at how tough the NANO's really are!


----------



## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

I've been shooting the Nano Pro Extreme 450s for about 2 months now and I will say they are far more durable than the X10.
Granted I've gone through a dozen nocks and a few pins and still have yet to see a shaft crack.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Compound or recurve?


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

x-hunta, are you using the stainless steel or tool steel points?


----------



## GML (Nov 17, 2008)

I shoot recurve, 38 pound at the moment,went down from 45 pound and Im working on form and rehabing a shoulder issue. I am looking to tune at 42.5 pounds, arrow length 29 1/4", nock valley to shaft end. Im think about 550 spine in either the SST of the X Treme but is it worth spending the extra on the X treme when I know I have been spoilt with the X10?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Xtreme will shoot with or better than X10 all day long. Check the final shot in the 2012 London Olympic games. Frangilli shoots a 10 to win team gold for Italy with a NPX. You might just be "spoilt" by the Xtremes if you use them. 

Don't underestimate the SST's. They are a fantastic-shooting arrow. My daughter is just killing it with those shafts right now, and one of my junior male recurve archers loves his too. I don't feel the SST's give up anything to an A/C/E other than perhaps a little weight. But the "set bend" of an A/C is a real thing. So is fatigue of the A/C arrows, although not as much as some would think. 

Hardly a more durable arrow out there than the Nano Pro though. They are incredibly tough.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Days like these I wonder if any engineers from Easton are listening in......


----------



## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

theminoritydude said:


> Days like these I wonder if any engineers from Easton are listening in......


Yea it's as if they think the x10 is the most used arrow at the top level of the sport.... or something.


----------



## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

theminoritydude said:


> x-hunta, are you using the stainless steel or tool steel points?


I am using the tool steel, well worth the extra money IMO


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> So basically who has experience with these new arrows?





theminoritydude said:


> Days like these I wonder if any engineers from Easton are listening in......



Seeing as "they" don't have experience with both types of arrows, and few of us in the sport actually do, I'd suggest that the OP is getting the right advice here. 

Fact is, there are very few top archers who are willing to bite the hand that feeds, or potentially, feeds them, and ever be seen shooting anything that doesn't say Easton on it. I personally know two Olympians who would love to give the NPX an honest go, but won't simply due to the potential lost revenue and support. 

Nobody ever said A/C/E and X10 aren't fantastic arrows. They are. I've always said that myself. But folks need to finally admit that they aren't the only world class arrows available.


----------



## GML (Nov 17, 2008)

In terms of the SST's it looks like they will weigh the same as my old X10, so its a nice and heavy arrow.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Density is key.


----------



## straat (Jan 22, 2009)

I shoot nano pro xtreme, hope they will be as durable as nano xr. I have shot x10 for a while in between but was unimpressed by their durability. 

Last World Cup event in Shanghai, no 1 qualifier in men's recurve was shooting nano pro xtreme.


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

straat said:


> I shoot nano pro xtreme, hope they will be as durable as nano xr. I have shot x10 for a while in between but was unimpressed by their durability.
> 
> Last World Cup event in Shanghai, no 1 qualifier in men's recurve was shooting nano pro xtreme.


Mexican Serrano and London Gold Italian team Frangilli, Nespoli and Galiazzo are all shooting Nano Pro X-treme, and other will follow shortly. All of them use Eli-Vanes too....

550 NPX seems too stiff based on infos provided... they should be 600 or weaker. Use Tool steel or Tungsten points on them.


----------



## BenConnor (Feb 15, 2013)

theminoritydude said:


> Density is key.


Why is this?

Or if I can propose the question another way, if new materials allowed you to have an arrow shaft with the diameter (and drag) of an X10 or Nano Pro, in the weight (for a given spine) of an ACE (or McKinney for that matter), would you use it?


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

BenConnor said:


> Why is this?
> 
> Or if I can propose the question another way, if new materials allowed you to have an arrow shaft with the diameter (and drag) of an X10 or Nano Pro, in the weight (for a given spine) of an ACE (or McKinney for that matter), would you use it?


No.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

If it has the weight of ACE, I would demand a smaller diameter than a nano pro.


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

BenConnor said:


> Why is this?
> 
> Or if I can propose the question another way, if new materials allowed you to have an arrow shaft with the diameter (and drag) of an X10 or Nano Pro, in the weight (for a given spine) of an ACE (or McKinney for that matter), would you use it?


Of course yes, this is the Holy Grail of the arrows !

It is already possible, in theory, but still too much expensive to make.


----------



## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

theminoritydude said:


> If it has the weight of ACE, I would demand a smaller diameter than a nano pro.


So you would refuse use it and and continue to shoot x-10/NPX? I don't think so...


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Ah, I see the age-old "light fast arrow vs. slow heavy arrow" debate still rages on...  

As with many equipment debates, I doubt it will ever be settled since of course it's the archer who determines who wins and not the arrow.


----------



## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

Look, if they shot aluminum arrows in the old days to set meaningful world records then shooting ACE, vs X10 and Nanos are all secondary to how the archer actually executes a flawless technique. I figure if folks are putting up great scores with X10, ACE and Nanos equally well then you can't go wrong with the available choices.


----------



## BenConnor (Feb 15, 2013)

tunedlow said:


> Look, if they shot aluminum arrows in the old days to set meaningful world records then shooting ACE, vs X10 and Nanos are all secondary to how the archer actually executes a flawless technique. I figure if folks are putting up great scores with X10, ACE and Nanos equally well then you can't go wrong with the available choices.


Yes, totally. I can't say that even the holy grail of arrows would make any difference to my own scores. But I'm a recovering engineer and I'm interested in why these things are so, all the same. 

Before someone says just go and shoot, I did already


----------



## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

BenConnor said:


> Yes, totally. I can't say that even the holy grail of arrows would make any difference to my own scores. But I'm a recovering engineer and I'm interested in why these things are so, all the same.
> 
> Before someone says just go and shoot, I did already


I can relate. I am fascinated by the physics (and manufacturing methods) of what sets apart the arrows from each other. I shot my PB last season with ACE but wish they were more resilient. I have heard great things about the CX Xtreme so I'll give them a shot this season.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Ah, I see the age-old "light fast arrow vs. slow heavy arrow" debate still rages on...
> 
> As with many equipment debates, I doubt it will ever be settled since of course it's the archer who determines who wins and not the arrow.


I'll buy this man a beer.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Anyway, I'm at the boarding gate, talk to you guys when I reach Suwon.


----------



## rascal650 (Aug 7, 2012)

Like GML, I'm also interested in trying the NPX. My stats are really close to GML: DL: 29.5", DW: approx. 42#. For reference, the 520 ACE tunes well for me and in the area of "carbon arrow", the Carbon One 550 tunes perfectly at 30M. Should I go for the NPX 550 spine?

John: the SST would be my first choice but the added weight between the SST and the NPX ( .7 gpi for the 550 spine) would make it hard for me to reach 90M (total arrow weight just under 350grains) without bringing the sight closer.


----------



## GML (Nov 17, 2008)

So Mr Vitorio, why would you say I need to go weaker?


----------



## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

BenConnor said:


> Why is this?
> 
> Or if I can propose the question another way, if new materials allowed you to have an arrow shaft with the diameter (and drag) of an X10 or Nano Pro, in the weight (for a given spine) of an ACE (or McKinney for that matter), would you use it?


I think the best way to answer this question is to keep the overall arrow mass constant and then it just a case of comparing shaft diameter with FOC. So the lighter shaft will have a heavier point to get the same overall mass (same speed and overall same mass as regards "lift coefficient"). The lighter shaft (same mass arrow) will have a higher FOC so more forgiving to archer and wind variations. For the same shaft material then the lighter shaft will generally be wider - which is what the trade off becomes. For different materials where you have a thinner shaft for the same weight (basically your suggestion) then the answer is clearly yes.

So if you want to get some comparison between two arrow shafts then keep the shaft length, nock weight and fletching characteristics the same. Using the Drift simulator choose the point weight for the heaver gpi shaft; adjust the point weight for the lighter gpi shaft so the overall arrow masses are the same and then compare the two arrows under side wind and archer variation effects.


----------



## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

BenConnor said:


> if new materials allowed you to have an arrow shaft with the diameter (and drag) of an X10 or Nano Pro, in the weight (for a given spine) of an ACE (or McKinney for that matter), would you use it?


Yes please! More notably in my eyes, surely such a new material would allow for a thinner arrow of approximately the same linear density of the x10 or Nano.
THAT would be one hell of an arrow. Tungsten points would likely no longer be an optional item for that skinny an arrow however as steel shanks would probably take up almost half the front length of the shaft. You could however almost entirely ignore the wind with a 2mm wide, 350 grain, 200-220 fps arrow... A man can dream, eh?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> You could however almost entirely ignore the wind with a 2mm wide, 350 grain, 200-220 fps arrow... A man can dream, eh?


If your goal is to set new personal best scores, then yes, that's a great dream to have. If your goal is to win, then it really doesn't matter what arrows come along in the future, as everyone else will be using them too, and it will once again come down to the archer's ability to shoot them.


----------



## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> If your goal is to set new personal best scores, then yes, that's a great dream to have. If your goal is to win, then it really doesn't matter what arrows come along in the future, as everyone else will be using them too, and it will once again come down to the archer's ability to shoot them.


Oh I agree, I just mean that they would be fun to shoot! I like a little overkill every now and then.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

theminoritydude said:


> Anyway, I'm at the boarding gate, talk to you guys when I reach Suwon.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)




----------



## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

theminoritydude said:


> I'm going over to Korea to get some NPXs, I'll let you know if they are as hardy as someone who hung a 10kg weight supported at both ends for 24 hours without failure or permanent bending claim them to be.


kinda weird benchmark considering its really not going to be used that way when shooting.


----------



## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Speaking of the durability of cx shafts, funny thing happened in the shop a couple weeks ago. While testing draw weight I had an sst point catch the inside of a titan aperture while letting down. The arrow bent into a 'c' shape probably deflecting a full 12 inches or more with a 28 inch shaft. Embarrassing and pretty scary. The shaft did not break or crack and performs just fine. I do not recommend testing in this manner.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

tunedlow said:


> kinda weird benchmark considering its really not going to be used that way when shooting.


It happened because some party wasn't too convinced of a claim floating around outside, that the full carbon shaft will not take a set bend. So just to prove the claim wrong, another party performed the experiment. The result was rather disappointing, to the former.


----------



## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

Over the last 9 years I've shot ACEs, Nano XRs, MKIIs, and X10s.. 

All of them show ware and fatigue. 

My ACEs and MKIIs wore down on the carbon due to friction ware on the shaft with abrasive targets, and lost spine.

The Nanos broke at the point, either pushing it in or the point breaking at the end of the shaft.

The x10s bend inside. Disappointed here since these are the most expensive. Just spent 3 sessions shooting the last 9 x10s I have to see 2 of them never reach the 4 ring yet with the other 7 I can score 280s 290s at 50m with them. 

If durability of the shaft is important to you go with Nano XRS. 
If durability of the overall arrow is important then go with ACE first, then MKII. 
Last use x10 but not for durability. 

For accuracy when NEW, go for x10s. 

For value, well jury is out, you decide.


----------

