# BCY-X and trad recurves.



## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

I would like to seek opinions of recurve trad shooters.This involves string making using bcy-x 

Currently my recurve shoots accurately and quiet with 8125G endless loop and running on 7 3/4 brace height as recommended.
In the interest of making a string using* BCY-X, I have ran into noise issues and performance issues. 

i have made the following bcy-x* strings with these specs and all twisted to brace.
a. 18strands, 24twists, end loop serving of 0.21 powergrip
b. 22 strands, 45 twists, end loop serving of 0.21 powergrip
c. 20 strands, 15 twists, end loop serving of 0.21 powergrip
d. 20 strands 35twists, end loop serving of 0.22 diamond back 

strings a,b,d all were very loud. short vibes but harsh but highly accurate. good* speeds
c is a low quiet thud and soft vibes after shot. suffers on consistency but faster arrows.
a,c & d provides the best draw feel. not as stiff and very friendly to the release. 

I need some opinion as to how to make the all rounder string using bcy-x. I am making the strings following this formula, length / 1.75 for twists then divide by 0.012 and adding the string length back for my initial string build length.

1. will end serving diameter affect the loudness of the bow?
2. should I still maintain at my brace height when I change across to diff strings? 
3. higher twist count from 15-35 didn't quieten the bow but instead it shot a lot noisier. so right now, I am stuck. a very big. Now what? how now?

I hope I can get some advice on this. currently all strings made do not have any silencers on it. but seeing and hearing the performance of the 8125g stock string with a pair of small rubber whiskers, I was really trying to mimic the same performance or better with the BCY-X strings in terms of lower vibe, faster, equally quiet and lastly consistent performance shot after shot. 

I hope some of you who have made endless loop bcy-x strings for ur trad recurves can chime in. 

thanks in advance


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## rbro (Dec 17, 2013)

From the little I know, BCY-X should not be used on a traditional bow as it doesn't stretch. I order all my compound strings from 60X and spec BCY-X for them. Very stable for compound, but not "springy" enough for traditional bows.

rbro


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## Big Jack (Jul 13, 2009)

I have BCY-X strings on a Bear SK and an RER xr recurve ,they are flemish twist strings .Stable quiet and I will use nothing else on these bows.


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## Dalton63841 (Oct 26, 2013)

rbro said:


> From the little I know, BCY-X should not be used on a traditional bow as it doesn't stretch. I order all my compound strings from 60X and spec BCY-X for them. Very stable for compound, but not "springy" enough for traditional bows.
> 
> rbro


I guess that depends on the definition of trad bow. I've always been told that if the bow has reinforced tips, it can handle FF type strings. My Bear Montana longbow certainly seems to do very well with it. My string is also a BCY-X from 60x.


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

rbro said:


> From the little I know, BCY-X should not be used on a traditional bow as it doesn't stretch. I order all my compound strings from 60X and spec BCY-X for them. Very stable for compound, but not "springy" enough for traditional bows.
> 
> rbro


For any bow rated for FF, X is the best I have found.

Jezza - you very well need to play with brace hght changing materials.

I use 18 strands for the majority of my builds and Halo 19 for loop and end servings.
Center serving is either Halo .024 or 62xs .025 - good fit for the majority of nocks.
Also verify your nock fir is the same as the old string.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

Any time you make changes to your string build (strands, silencers, etc) you have changed variables that will affect sound, tune, forgiveness, and potentially accuracy. A different material may require a different brace height, silencer placement, nock height, etc to achieve a decent tune. If you are shooting a bare string it may have pushed your arrow tune into a very weak area that can contribute to more noise. A weak tune can also be unforgiving because the arrow cannot recover well from the paradox induced. 

Point is, any time you change variables you have to retune for optimal performance. 

Also, some materials have different characteristics. On certain bows, one may always be quieter or better feeling.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Whut Str8 sed.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

steveb and str8 shooter. thanks for that. I understand it now. wasnt too sure if brace would have made a difference cos I was trying to make as little change as possible while doing my string building and thus I kept brace as a constant so far. 

apologies for leaving the brand of bow and model out of my op this is so that the focus will not be on the make and model but on the string making process instead. but yes the bowyer says that ff strings are suitable in this case.


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

To add to str8shooters comment, 

And I'll let you come up with your own result here, but take two strings identical in length and material. Spin one wrapping the serving on very tight, like its almost ringing out the wax within the string strands! 
Then make the other and wind the servings on just tight enough so your server is only pulling just enough to keep each wind from separating.
Then go see which one is quieter. 

You'll need to pad the tighter wound strings center for proper nock fit. To be an accurate test your arrow needs to snap and pull from each string at as close to the same tension as absolutely possible.

Another thing for you to try is see how your bow acts or tunes with a certain string (any string) and then take that same string and lengthen each end serving by two inches once. See the change that one makes! You dont need to make a new string just continue serving out a few inches further from where they first ended.

Will be interested to hear your results.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

rbro said:


> From the little I know, BCY-X should not be used on a traditional bow as it doesn't stretch. I order all my compound strings from 60X and spec BCY-X for them. Very stable for compound, but not "springy" enough for traditional bows.
> 
> rbro


I am using BCY-x on all my FF capable recurves and longbows and absolutely love them.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

8125G is blended with Gore fibers. It's generally considered to be a fairly soft shooting material with very good speed and minimal creep. BCY-X is blended with Vectran fibers and is a higher grade of the Dyneema fiber. It will have less creep due to the Vectran and should be very similar to the performance of 8125G. But, I wouldn't expect the same feel and sound based on the different characteristics. 

If this is a hunting bow I'd set the string up the way you intend to use it. Put on minimal silencers and start with the brace at the minimum the bowyer recommends. Shoot and gradually raise the brace til you get to the upper limit for brace. On some bows it is noticeable when you find the right brace, some not so much. Also, if you notice poor arrow flight as you adjust don't be afraid to tweak the arrow. Once you find the quietest spot for the bow than really dial in the arrow tune and you should have the quietest, most forgiving setup for that bow... with that particular string combo. 

If it still isn't quiet enough move the silencers around a bit, add a second pair, etc. If none of that gives you what you want than you can scrap out that combo and try again if you have your heart set on that material.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

Myth Buster said:


> To add to str8shooters comment,
> 
> And I'll let you come up with your own result here, but take two strings identical in length and material. Spin one wrapping the serving on very tight, like its almost ringing out the wax within the string strands!
> Then make the other and wind the servings on just tight enough so your server is only pulling just enough to keep each wind from separating.
> ...


Hi there. I have tested one part of 2 as it is easier. Which is the lengthening of the serving at the end loops. I have added around 1 inch of servings to both ends. And string vibrations didn't slow down but the bow is a tad quieter overall. If it's consistent with ur findings do let me know. 

As for changing the tightness of servings. I may not do it yet as I am not conclusive of my findings in brace height changing. Thanks for the thoughts. It's all good knowledge on making a string that I want. 
I want a string that feels less stiff on the draw, Low vibe, hunting quiet, fast and consistent.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

rsarns said:


> I am using BCY-x on all my FF capable recurves and longbows and absolutely love them.





Str8 Shooter said:


> If this is a hunting bow I'd set the string up the way you intend to use it. Put on minimal silencers and start with the brace at the minimum the bowyer recommends. Shoot and gradually raise the brace til you get to the upper limit for brace. On some bows it is noticeable when you find the right brace, some not so much. Also, if you notice poor arrow flight as you adjust don't be afraid to tweak the arrow. Once you find the quietest spot for the bow than really dial in the arrow tune and you should have the quietest, most forgiving setup for that bow... with that particular string combo.
> 
> If it still isn't quiet enough move the silencers around a bit, add a second pair, etc. If none of that gives you what you want than you can scrap out that combo and try again if you have your heart set on that material.


Yes it will be bcy-x. I have success with it on a 22 strand Flemish bcy-x string on my 68" longbow. From a twang, a thud on 16 strand 8125G Flemish, with bcy-x, it's just a whoosh. Chronoed speeds didn't differ much. Brace height didn't change then. But I need to build more strings with various lengths/ twists to get the vibrations controlled. So far so good. Which was why I went on to buy more material and also a string making jig to find out how I can use bcy-x to make a string that I want. 

But a lesson I learn in the past few months was nock height does play a part in making the bow quieter. Now it's all about the string.

Reason for this was that with the supplied 8125g string, I was getting a very quiet bow, highly consistent string which I had shot wonderful results and also low vibe. Min limb flutter after the shot. I hope my strings can settle in to a nice brace height that helps my shooting as well.

Thanks for advice so far everyone.


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

If you want quiet, think in terms of material softness. (for lack of a better way of putting it.)

If you want performance, think in terms of the strings overall mass weight. 

String paradox or amount of (or lack of) is dictated by how much the string is served overall. serving the ends further adds weight but slows down or reduces the number of oscillations as the limbs are in motion pulling the arrow forward before returning to brace. Your arrow tune should also show stiffer with more serving.

To the opposite affect, you can verify this by making an endless string with no end serving. Just enough to form the loop (1/4" is all you need) You'll notice quite a "tone" difference.

If you do this you'll have to make the lock or crossover under the center serving.

Most find flemish strings to be quieter on recurves regardless of material used. likely because they are overall softer to the limb contact surface.

Hard to make one string give all the benefits without giving something else up. Just the way it is.


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## BroWolf (Mar 13, 2014)

https://youtu.be/MbLf-EVGLAs 

I have been using this string. On my take down now and it has been phenomenal. Based on the original post specs is seems like B. String is a good idea but in reality my question is: Have you tried anything like Flemish in the strings?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Str8 Shooter said:


> Any time you make changes to your string build (strands, silencers, etc) you have changed variables that will affect sound, tune, forgiveness, and potentially accuracy. A different material may require a different brace height, silencer placement, nock height, etc to achieve a decent tune. If you are shooting a bare string it may have pushed your arrow tune into a very weak area that can contribute to more noise. A weak tune can also be unforgiving because the arrow cannot recover well from the paradox induced.
> 
> Point is, any time you change variables you have to retune for optimal performance.
> 
> Also, some materials have different characteristics. On certain bows, one may always be quieter or better feeling.


What he said...

I tested a bunch of materials...

Ray tested a bunch of materials...

We got different results...

Even if you re-tune (which you need to), the best recipe one bow/shooter may be different than for another. But, if they're actually tuned, the differences shouldn't be huge, once you've optimized the setup for each.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

thanks myth u put it across pretty well. since the part of consideration in building a string here is serving, would and generally we use around 0.17 to 0.24. wondering if a 0.30 serving would work.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

BroWolf said:


> https://youtu.be/MbLf-EVGLAs
> 
> I have been using this string. On my take down now and it has been phenomenal. Based on the original post specs is seems like B. String is a good idea but in reality my question is: Have you tried anything like Flemish in the strings?
> 
> ...





BarneySlayer said:


> What he said...
> 
> I tested a bunch of materials...
> 
> ...


yes I did and I had good results from making a bcy-x Flemish string with similar specs of centre serving halo 0.21. 

very very very quiet on my longbow. saying that since buying a string jig, I wanna to find out more on making "that" string. and I understand the sacrifices. 

fast, quiet, low vibe. choose any 2.5 lol


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

Jezza said:


> thanks myth u put it across pretty well. since the part of consideration in building a string here is serving, would and generally we use around 0.17 to 0.24. wondering if a 0.30 serving would work.


Cant answer to the 0.30 size servings. I've never used serving that thick on any of my strings or in doing any testing.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I tried .30 or something like that, Diamondback, I think it was. I remember that I didn't like it, though I don't remember if it was that it simply didn't lay up well on the small string, or if there was something else. I've got a spool of it in Diamondback if you want it.

I ended up preferring either double serving .014 or .018 (Halo and Diamondback respectively), if I needed thicker.

Rick Barbee also shared a trick about laying a layer of teflon tape underneath if you want to give a nice even pad. It only does so much, as the serving will crush it quite a bit, but it is something.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks for the offer Barneyslayer, i do have a spool already. 
In all I built 6 strings to test. by permutative considerations of the number of factors, i was varying serving lengths, strands, string length, serving diameter i would have 
if one were to take 20/22/24 strands, 3 different lengths one with between 40 Twists, 30 tiwsts and below 30 twists., serving length of 5.5 and 6, serving diameter of 0.018/0.017, 0.022/0.021 and 0.024. 
i have a way to go. however, 
here are some results. 

a. 18strands, 24 twists, end loop serving of 0.21 Powergrip 6" end serving 
b. 22 strands, 45 twists, end loop serving of 0.21 Powergrip 5.5" end serving 
c. 20 strands, 15 twists, end loop serving of 0.21 Powergrip 5.5" end serving
d. 20 strands 35 twists, end loop serving of 0.22 Diamond Back 5.5" end serving
e. 24 strands 35 twists, end serving of 0.18 Powergrip 5.5" end serving
f. 20 strands 38 twists, end loop serving of 0.24 halo 6" serving 

all shooting the same 47#@28" recurve bow with the same 450gr arrows easton trad axis 400 at the distance of around 16 yds.
I have put some categories down in terms of preference from left to right Level of vibrations (less to more): E, E, C, D, B, A
Speed (visible assumption) will chrono when possible fast to slow: F, C, D, B, E A 
Consistency (which i will coin this term as a consistent group): F, E, D, C, B, A
Noise levels quieter to noiser: E, F, D, C, B, A

E. 24 Strand string, was surprising nice to draw not a harsh feel as I had expected from a 24 strand string and it was very nice to shoot and had to move the brace height to around ¼” more for the string to be less a low tone instead of a slap loud. 
F. was my favorite. Arrows were fast. Vibrations were minimal a short vibe movement. Grouping consistency was great and after breaking a few nocks, this will be the string I will be building more of. None as quiet when compared to the 8125G string but if performance is what I want, the specs on this string will be desirable. Baring in mind the 8125G is an endless loop string as well. 
I will think of other methods to make the string quieter possibly with some cir cut cat whiskers. Also may try slipping 2-4 strands of b55 in the end servings to see the effects or wrapping some yarn around the end servings. Considerations will be depending on the vibration effects of either as I am not inclined to adding more weight on to the string


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## jkm97 (Jul 8, 2004)

The BCY-X string I got from LBR (Champion Bow Strings) is the best I've used, especially in humid Mississippi where stretch can be a problem.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Regarding silencers, I find that installing minimal cat whiskers (like really, really little, I use 1/2 of a pair for all 4 points, cut so that they stick out without flopping, like 3/4") at 1/3 and 1/4 points between the lift points of the string on the limbs at brace works very well. Do realize, though, that it does change the tune. Similarly, if I put just a little velcro, starting about 3/8" before the string lifts at brace, and maybe thrse same, or a little longer, depending on the limbs, setup, and how it's working, it eliminates string slap completely. Limb savers work well too, but mostly for the lower frequency noise and felt vibration, though it will depend a lot on the bow.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

thanks guys the final combination I ended up with a quieter bow with the fps gain of the BCY-X was. I increased brace height, added 3 strands of b55 in the end loops, wrapped the end loops with yarn and to minimised after shot vibrations, I installed the cat whiskers on the string. 

20strands bcy-x with the shot consistency of 8125G and as quiet. I am a very happy puppy.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Did you test them in A-F order? I ask because your consistency went in the opposite direction. This is where a blind study helps. You could tire, lose focus, etc. I am interested in seeing the chrono results. I have made pretty drastic tuning changes in my tests while seeing no impact in initial velocity. This is really good stuff, but the subjective measures are difficult to make.


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

> added 3 strands of b55 in the end loops


If I understand right, you have b55 and X in the end loops? 

I had problems padding 8190 loops with dacron / b50 or whatever it was. The dacron wore quickly and started oozing out of the loops, sort of. Hard to describe.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

Arrowwood said:


> If I understand right, you have b55 and X in the end loops?
> 
> I had problems padding 8190 loops with dacron / b50 or whatever it was. The dacron wore quickly and started oozing out of the loops, sort of. Hard to describe.


I used powergrip 0.24 to served them in at a high tension. once then I stretched out the string for 30+ mins before twisting them to length. I haven't done any other way of doing these yet. perhaps the thicker serving may have kept the Dacron in.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> Did you test them in A-F order? I ask because your consistency went in the opposite direction. This is where a blind study helps. You could tire, lose focus, etc. I am interested in seeing the chrono results. I have made pretty drastic tuning changes in my tests while seeing no impact in initial velocity. This is really good stuff, but the subjective measures are difficult to make.


I will try to get the chrono results as soon as possible as well. these days the range is packed with folks and setting up the chrono is not a friendly thing to do at the moment due to space. i also hope to get that sorted soon. 

in my tests, while I did not specifically order them A-F, I have specs written on them so I do know which string is on the bow. all strings went thru the following including all the brace height and nock height changes. after the initial strand count and twists experiments, I found the string pressure I was comfortable with and then made another one with b55 in the end loops. and I made another string as close to the same specs. and added yarn to the end loops. tweaked the nock height a little bit more and got another shooter to shoot the bow after I had put in 60+ shots as warm up. cos I understand release will play a part in the shots and got the results I wanted. will do more shooting shortly to close up my thoughts and work on this. next up is to build a string for my gillo border rig. I made one for a 68" Olympic recurve last week and the shooter didn't redo his sighting cos at 16 yards, his groups ended up at 4" higher and he eventually shot his arrows out of the board on the first end at 70m. some of his feedback was the string also affected his back tension from the previous 8125 one. I will need to rethink on the number of twists in that one. his opinion was the new string also took most of the vibe and shock out of the bow. but bear in mind, the results on my tests were merely feel, visual and shot result based, it is not at all emperically tested. (soon possible once I get the chance to chrono them.) I am sort of careless in making notes. so I need more time on this. pls forgive 

saying that once I have done more experiments and I really want to thank you for providing suggestions and also ur experience in dialogue, I could make u a couple of strings in ur specs and see how it goes. just pm me ur home address. I am not making strings for profit of any kind and just for the sake of learning something in my thirst for knowledge. I hope I can share some things I learn along the way with anyone.


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

Jezza:

I have found that the most significant variable in string making and string noise is uniform tension in each strand (strand to strand variation close to zero as possible) while the string is on the jig. Assuming you have a fond recollection that each string constructed was closely scrutinized for uniform tension while winding strands?


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## evolvor (Jul 19, 2015)

Jezza said:


> I would like to seek opinions of recurve trad shooters.This involves string making using bcy-x
> 
> Currently my recurve shoots accurately and quiet with 8125G endless loop and running on 7 3/4 brace height as recommended.
> In the interest of making a string using* BCY-X, I have ran into noise issues and performance issues.
> ...




I am planning to start to learn to make my own strings for my recurve bow and the other reason is my current bow is really loud...I mean REALLY loud! However my problem is rather the backward of yours and I wondered if you can give me your input.

I recently switched to the W&W Rapido limbs 32# and put BCY X (20 strands)...this setup on the first shot scared other shooters on the line as it was like I dry fired my bow. I tried tuning my bow, tried out the brace height range and finally I am at 8-3/4" which I personally feel a bit quieter. Now I have added limbsavers dampeners to reduce the noise more.

Some guys suggested BCY X might be too "stiff" and should try something a little "springy". Since I wanted to learn to make my own strings, I am considering to start with 8125G material as it is claimed as more popular for recurve bows. Before I begin, I would like to hear some more input, if I should also try something else or have done something wrong with my setup.

Thanks,

John


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

john, i am sorry i didnt reply you earlier. the past few months i have been busy with work and setting up a few new bows that i forgot to check in. HANK i still owe u chrono testing. I am sorry very sorry u have to wait. A few things prioritize over string making and testing. 

but for info, i have built some strings with 8190F which would make it similar to fury. did some testing from 22/20/18/16 strand and stopped there. IMHO, i think 16/18 strand 8190F is very good indeed.


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## Jezza (Oct 21, 2013)

evolvor said:


> I am planning to start to learn to make my own strings for my recurve bow and the other reason is my current bow is really loud...I mean REALLY loud! However my problem is rather the backward of yours and I wondered if you can give me your input.
> 
> I recently switched to the W&W Rapido limbs 32# and put BCY X (20 strands)...this setup on the first shot scared other shooters on the line as it was like I dry fired my bow. I tried tuning my bow, tried out the brace height range and finally I am at 8-3/4" which I personally feel a bit quieter. Now I have added limbsavers dampeners to reduce the noise more.
> 
> ...


I am not too sure if many would agree to my logic or think that it is totally BS. but here is my inputs to the best of my ability to try to solve ur issue. i had noisy bow, bows with large hand shock etc. 

Firstly, u need to ensure your release is as clean as possible. 
check if the arrow is whacking into your riser when fired 

then I hope that you will try out the following to ensure the bow is tuned to the arrow. provided the spine of the arrow is not too far off from the dynamic force of the bow. 

we will tune the bow to see if we can shoot the arrow well first. there are 2 things to correct in this, vertical and then horizontal differences between the bareshaft and the fletched arrow.

vertical alignment (reduce porpoising of the arrow. by doing this, your bow may become quieter. )
Shoot 3 bareshaft and 3 fletched arrows. see where they land if bareshaft is above fletched arrow, raise the nock height and vice versa. do it till bareshafts are the same height as the fletched arrows

horizontal alignment ( adjusting the dynamic force of the bow to the arrow)
if the bareshaft group is on the right side of the fletched group, it is possibly that arrow is of a weak spine. 

Before u make spend any money on buying a new set of arrows, 
u can change point weight lighter points if its weak or cut the arrows shorter. 

Tiller if u can tiller, turn out the tiller bolts to weaken the dynamic force of the bow (do it safely, count the number of turns to the manufacturers specification, do at ur own risk. be careful) 
try reducing brace height 
use a heavier string / more strands or add a bit more weight to the string, like silencers I found good tune with cat whiskers. 

do the opposite for bareshafts that land left of the fletched arrows. this is a sign of your arrow choice being too stiff for the bow.

once bareshafts get to group with your fletched arrows, i note that from my tuning of bows, most bows become quieter.
if ur bareshafts cant group with your fletched arrows, u might want redo the arrows or buy a new set at a diff spine altogether. 

what essentially i am saying is u may have to see if the bow is tuned to the arrow before u start thinking that correcting the string is the way to go. 

on string building to quieten the bow. before going the distance on learning that and buying materials(string/serving string) and tools(string making jig, serving jig, string tension jig) which is not cheap
I had also tied wool around the loops to good effect

but on string making, adding some padding into the loops as in some strands of dacron was pretty effective. 
the number of twists in the string will increase the "springy-ness" of the string. string makers here on this forum had advice me a formula which i had used quite extensively to make a string of a certain length so that i can control the number of twists for the length i wanted. 

Recently my swap to a lesser strand 8190F material was a good change for me as i had been using .400 spined arrows for my 42-47# bows and the slight increase in the "bow force" did help in correcting some right bareshafts issues. 

but in the end a new set of .500 spined plus a slight shift in brace height did correct the arrow flight and i had a nice and quiet bow altogether. 


will someone kick me in the balls if i say "a bow tuned to the right arrow will likely be a quiet bow?"

lastly, I seemed to be having noise issues when using a flipper rest spigarelli ZT rest on my barebow setup and the noise was reduced drastically when i changed to a simple gompy rest shooting 3 under and its a well tuned bow. bareshafts groups with fletched with little kicking after setting my plunger tensions at my test distance of 20 yds.

Anyway that was my experience in this and feel free to drop me a message in my pm. its a little easier than monitoring the posts lol. I got in here cos i wanted to copy and paste my findings to another archer. lol got lazy to type out the same. god bless.


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