# DIY prussics for HSS lifeline



## reid-o (Mar 5, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0d8-Fxdx8Y
This is a link for a good youtube video. Just make sure the other knot is made from climbing grade rope. Where i live there are a couple of outdoor sporting goods stores that have climbing rope, otherwise I'm sure you could order some online.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

REI is a store that carries climbing grade rope. (yes I know they are pricey) 
There are a ton of youtube video's beyond the one above. I think you'll also find that the Prussic is the poor mans climbing knot. The tree surgeons on YouTube offer a lot of other options many of them are far easier to work with. To others reading this, although safety systems typically only come with one prussic knot on their ropes if you are using a climber you should always have 2 of them. You tie into the one on top and the second is used to help you relieve the tension on the one you are dangling from when you need to extricate your self after the fall.


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

*thanks*

thanks for the links fellas. I'm not a cheapskate by any means. I have no problem buying 3 packs of lifelines. I just need to be able to add a 2nd prussik where needed. Honestly as easy as it is to take on and off I could basically just make one extra and carry it with me when I take my daughter. From the you tube video it looks like it would take a whole 10 seconds to put the pre-made loop and hook onto the lifeline.

That's a great tip for the climber usage needing the 2nd prussic anyway.


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## BringEmNorth (Apr 7, 2012)

Eastern Mountain Sports has all kinds of climbing rope you can use. That's where I get mine.


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

b0w_bender said:


> To others reading this, although safety systems typically only come with one prussic knot on their ropes if you are using a climber you should always have 2 of them. You tie into the one on top and the second is used to help you relieve the tension on the one you are dangling from when you need to extricate your self after the fall.


Can you expand on this a little more? I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean.


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

Here's an afterthought. Is there a big difference between the rope the Prussic is made from and the actual lifeline? The reason I ask is that my stands are generally 18-20 feet hi so I always have at least 5'+ rope lying on the ground when my set is finished. What would wrong with using 2-3' off the tail end of the lifeline to make that 2nd Prussic? I just ordered 2 HSS carabiners online for $22.


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## Arrowhunter (Jul 26, 2005)

I just ordered enough materials to make 6 lifelines for 22.50 each. that a big difference than 39.99 each hss lifelines.


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## Booner1331 (Sep 13, 2006)

Arrowhunter said:


> I just ordered enough materials to make 6 lifelines for 22.50 each. that a big difference than 39.99 each hss lifelines.



Where did you order from??


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

And exactly what did you order


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

arkvet said:


> Here's an afterthought. Is there a big difference between the rope the Prussic is made from and the actual lifeline? The reason I ask is that my stands are generally 18-20 feet hi so I always have at least 5'+ rope lying on the ground when my set is finished. What would wrong with using 2-3' off the tail end of the lifeline to make that 2nd Prussic? I just ordered 2 HSS carabiners online for $22.


ABSOLUTELY NOT.

The MAIN LINE needs to be a FATTER diameter.

The Prussic MUST be 2/3rds diameter or a little less,
in order for the PRUSSIC knot/cord to BITE,
to grab...onto the LARGER diameter lifeline.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ThunderEagle said:


> Can you expand on this a little more? I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAaHPsainCk

Two prussic loops.

ONE LONGER prussic loop
to use for your SHOE/FOOT.

Shorter prussic
to connect your climbing harness
to the lifeline.

Stand up with your foot/shoe in the LONG prussic.

Now,
while standing straight up,
slide the SHORTER prussic connection
to just below the UPPER prussic knot.

You can climb a lifeline rope this way.


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

nuts&bolts said:


> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
> 
> The MAIN LINE needs to be a FATTER diameter.
> 
> ...


ok thanks. that's what I needed to know! No need to yell though:wink:


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

arkvet said:


> ok thanks. that's what I needed to know! No need to yell though:wink:


http://www.rei.com/product/472013/pmi-e-z-bend-sport-11mm-static-rope

11 mm static rope for the main life line.
$0.85 per foot.

Always good to purchase several feet MORE than you think you need.


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

nuts&bolts said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAaHPsainCk
> 
> Two prussic loops.
> 
> ...


Ahh, gotcha. I was thinking about what I used for my climber where I have a prussic on a length of rope that doesn't go all the way to the ground. I have the straps in my HSS vest that can be used to relieve the tension.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

Something to consider while climbing with your daughter is if you fall, will that cause her to be pulled off of the ladder/climbing sticks and cause her to fall also? maybe by letting her climb all the way to the stand first might allow the lifeline to have enough slack between you and her to not pull her off?


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

and what prussic rope would you match with this?



nuts&bolts said:


> http://www.rei.com/product/472013/pmi-e-z-bend-sport-11mm-static-rope
> 
> 11 mm static rope for the main life line.
> $0.85 per foot.
> ...


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

arkvet said:


> ok thanks. that's what I needed to know! No need to yell though:wink:


http://www.rei.com/product/830949/pmi-7mm-accessory-cord-package-of-30-ft

30 feet of 7 mm accessory cord.
More than enough to make several Prussic loops.

Sharp knife.
Clean cut.
Melt the ends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnoR0Nu1IS8

How to take a length of cord, to make your Prussic Loop.


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

arkvet said:


> and what prussic rope would you match with this?


lol. nevermind. you beat me to it. thanks!


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

arkvet said:


> and what prussic rope would you match with this?


When you make your FIRST...(sorry, must use lower case)
first prussic loop...

attach your prussic loop to the lifeline.

Stay on the ground,
and *test* your prussic loop.

So,
the bottom of your prussic loop is say 1 foot above the ground.

Put one shoe into your prussic loop
and test your prussic loop
to see if the prussic loop *grabs* the lifeline and supports your weight.

The more *wraps* for your prussic knot,
the *tighter* the prussic knot grabs.

If you are using a climbing harness,
use a locking carabiner to attach
your second prussic loop (shorter one)
to your belay loop on your climbing harness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAaHPsainCk


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

arkvet said:


> lol. nevermind. you beat me to it. thanks!


Prussic loops are a wear item.
Always test, before you use it,
test while still on the ground.

Keep your prussic loops
and your lifeline clean.

Dirt will wear out the outer covering,
and the outer covering is where a lot of the strength comes from.

When in doubt,
toss your prussic loop
and cut a new length of cord
and make a new prussic loop.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

arkvet said:


> lol. nevermind. you beat me to it. thanks!


Nice locking carabiner
to attach your belay loop on the climbing harness
to the prussic loop (short one)
attached to your lifeline.

http://www.rei.com/product/722360/black-diamond-rocklock-twistlock-carabiner


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

mhill said:


> Something to consider while climbing with your daughter is if you fall, will that cause her to be pulled off of the ladder/climbing sticks and cause her to fall also? maybe by letting her climb all the way to the stand first might allow the lifeline to have enough slack between you and her to not pull her off?


Excellent point and one that has already been thought of. For now that has not been an issue because she's using the lone prussic to climb. I'm left to do what I've done for years and that's "watch my step". When I get that 2nd prussic on the rope she will certainly be in the stand and off the lifeline. Some of my stands, although roomy enough for 2 people, still necessitate a secure connection where we transfer to another anchor but other stands are more like tree houses that simply aren't built to allow you an opportunity to fall. It would take a chainsaw or a tornado to make them budge. I don't think a hurricane would even make them budge.


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## Arrowhunter (Jul 26, 2005)

moosejaw.com I caught a 150ft of static rope on sale!!


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## waterman1148 (Sep 14, 2013)

nuts&bolts said:


> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
> 
> The MAIN LINE needs to be a FATTER diameter.
> 
> ...


Winner, winner. You are exactly right.


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

nuts&bolts said:


> http://www.rei.com/product/830949/pmi-7mm-accessory-cord-package-of-30-ft
> 
> 30 feet of 7 mm accessory cord.
> More than enough to make several Prussic loops.
> ...


Thank you so much for the thorough advice!!! Links to specific products and you tube videos on top of that. This thread is great! I ordered the accessory cord and just ordered "replacement" caribiners that are HSS @ $11 each. With those items I can build those additional prussic loops to add to my lifelines. I looked at building the whole set-up but with the ability to buy a 3 pack of lifelines for $99 ($33 each) there's just no reason to build my own. The materials are high quality and ready to go. That $33 get's me 30' line, a prussic loop, and a heavy duty caribiner. Can't piece it together cheaper than that.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I don't know how your are going to set up your life line but I don't like the idea of your daughter disconnecting from the life line once she is in the stand. She is still off the ground and I want her connected to a life line at all times.


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## snowshovler (Oct 15, 2011)

She should have a second tie in to be connected prior to releasing from the climbing line. Contact a climbing guide and tell them what you're up to and take a lesson on entering and exiting belay stations. In addition, the guide can assist you in learning how to extricate yourself in the event of a fall where you might be hanging from the line and unable to grab anything but air which is a definite possibility. The guide can also help you figure out how to remain separate from your daughter so if one fall the other is not dragged off. In a tree there is a lot of stuff to get tangled/impaled upon. You fall first, break a branch and now you have a spear, and being tied together you whip her off the stand along the same path you just took. The guide might set you back a few hundred dollars which is a lot less expensive than a trip to the ER. Don't cheap out on ropes and lines. The friction involved is incredible and a rope can burn through very quickly with a relatively short fall. With one line and she falls into a hanging position, how are you going to retrieve/help/reach her? Can you do this w/o endangering yourself? Alarmist? Not at all. Been climbing for 30 years and have seen many people injured by dumb falls off of safe belays.


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## shockman (Apr 16, 2009)

nuts&bolts said:


> http://www.rei.com/product/472013/pmi-e-z-bend-sport-11mm-static-rope
> 
> 11 mm static rope for the main life line.
> $0.85 per foot.
> ...


Some generally good advice from Nuts&bolts as usual... however a few nit picks from a tree climbers standpoint.

Static rope for your lifeline will work, but a dynamic rope will be more forgiving in the event of a fall. Tree climbers use a static rope because they often climb the rope instead of the tree, and the system is kept fairly taught... so any fall is very short.
A dynamic rope will have a bit more stretch, the added shock absortion in the event of a fall can make the difference between broken bones and just having the wind knocked out of you.

Don't ever go cheap on rope... safe working load for a life support rope is 10% of average breaking strength or 5400#ABS minimum...same for prussic loops, carabiners, and hardware...don't trust your life to Wal Mart cordage. When 2 people are attached to the same lifeline, take the additional potential load to mind when selecting the rope.

Locking carabiners...should be double locking carabiners...two distinct motions to open the gate...rated for minimum 5400# and 22kn shock load (I have some HSS steel locking biners that I use for non life support duties due to the fact they are not rated... if they were rated for life support the rating and manufacture date would be stamped on the carabiner.

Cutting life support cordage and melting the ends is a NO NO... use a hot knife to melt through the rope... this will prevent the possibility of cover "milking"... the outer cover slips on the core and you end up with what we call a butt bumper (not the good kind).

Double prussic are an absolute MUST...one prussic will stop your fall and leave you dangling in mid air... unless you know how to footlock you wont be able to break a prussic with you weight on the line.

Just one more note... it's not good to leave your lifeline attached to the tree overnight. Squirrels and other critters like to chew on things like a rope left tied in a tree.
You can use a piece of throwline, or even masons line to leave in the tree, and be able to pull your lifeline into place when you get to your stand.


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## shockman (Apr 16, 2009)

waterman1148 said:


> Winner, winner. You are exactly right.


Not exactly... the Blakes hitch tied from the tail end of your climbing line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofV6BGi4AJA

Note; the bowline this fellow uses as his anchor knot is NOT ANSI approved for life support.


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## LRJammer (Jun 22, 2013)

ThunderEagle said:


> Can you expand on this a little more? I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean.


I discoverd exactly this after a recent fall. Once that prusic knot has been tightened, it is hell to get it to loosen up and move. I have been thinking of adding a second tether to the back of my harness so that I can clip into the main tree strap before unclipping from the lifeline. Just another layer of safety in my mind. That recent near miss really shook me up and made me re-think a lot of things.


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

shockman said:


> Double prussic are an absolute MUST...one prussic will stop your fall and leave you dangling in mid air... unless you know how to footlock you wont be able to break a prussic with you weight on the line.


Heya Dave. How's it going?

I'd like to ask you what you would use, or recommend for a climber setup where you are moving the loop around the tree up as you climb up and down. Should this be a full length rope? What I currently use is a small length of rope, I dunno, maybe about 6', with a prussic tied to it. I guess I never really figured out what I would do if I fell and was hanging there. Maybe I should have a longer length, and maybe it should reach to the ground when I'm in stand?

That recent story out of Indiana has me looking to make sure I'm as safe as reasonably possible.


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## arkvet (Oct 30, 2013)

other than in a couple of "Cadillac" stands we're secured 100% of the time. We have a couple stands where the stand itself doesn't allow you to get out of tree unless you fully intend to. It would be like wearing a life vest on a cruise ship... ok bad analogy with the recent track record of cruise ships. 

Anyway, The thread has really got me thinking about what happens after the fall. It seems like a lot of people are taking the action to "stop the fall" but how to get down can then be as big of an issue. I think I may hang a lifeline and lock on in a tree in the yard. Then practice "getting out of the tree" in a different way than I got in it Sounds like fun. I'm going to assume working those prussics while dangling can be difficult if you're the least bit panicked and have never practiced.


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

Oh, I'm hooked up 100% of the time, but like you said, what happens after the fall? I guess I always though before, grab the cell phone and call for help, hoping I don't drop it.

My ladder stand I have a life line and I'm up and down. On that I was just thinking of slipping off the ladder, and then being able to get back on if I fell. Now I'm starting to wonder what happens if the whole stand fails.


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## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

An alternative to the prusik is the schwabisch hitch. I've been using it for a couple years now. It grabs the lifeline quick and will hold, yet it will release easily and doesn't bind up tight like the prusik. The distel is another hitch that I use.( No pic of it) It performs basically the same as the schwabisch.

The cord I'm using is tenex-tec. Rated at 6100#, it's strong, soft, supple, easy to tie knots.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

houser52 said:


> An alternative to the prusik is the schwabisch hitch. I've been using it for a couple years now. It grabs the lifeline quick and will hold, yet it will release easily and doesn't bind up tight like the prusik. The distel is another hitch that I use.( No pic of it) It performs basically the same as the schwabisch.
> 
> The cord I'm using is tenex-tec. Rated at 6100#, it's strong, soft, supple, easy to tie knots.


Yup.

I like the Schwabisch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4EJ2KHg1FU

I like use the eye to eye split tail.
More flexible than 7 mm accessory cord, so it grabs very nicely
and releases very nicely.


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## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

nuts&bolts said:


> Yup.
> 
> I like the Schwabisch.
> 
> ...



When I was learning and practicing self rescue, I found out pretty quick that breaking the prusik after it had been weighted hard took some effort. With cold fingers it would be even worse.


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## shockman (Apr 16, 2009)

ThunderEagle said:


> Heya Dave. How's it going?
> 
> I'd like to ask you what you would use, or recommend for a climber setup where you are moving the loop around the tree up as you climb up and down. Should this be a full length rope? What I currently use is a small length of rope, I dunno, maybe about 6', with a prussic tied to it. I guess I never really figured out what I would do if I fell and was hanging there. Maybe I should have a longer length, and maybe it should reach to the ground when I'm in stand?
> 
> That recent story out of Indiana has me looking to make sure I'm as safe as reasonably possible.


Things are going good Scott...just got back from Montana...busy busy.

Like you, I do most of my hunting from a climbing stand, and because I'm mostly on public land it's not feasible to let someone know where I may end up...cuz I may not be where I originally planned to go...the ability to self rescue is a major concern.

The setup I use is a hank of climbing rope about 30 feet long...tie a running bowline around the trunk and choke it snug as I advance up the tree.
Safety harness is clipped to a Distel hitch (very similar to houser 52's picture of a Swabisch).
The 30' of rope will always be enough to reach the ground, and it doubles as a pull line to haul my bow and pack up the tree once I'm set at height and secure.
I usually just daisy chain the rope to keep it up high off the ground.
The system is really simple to set up, the Distel or Swabisch are easy and trustworthy hitches to tie...and they don't lock up as hard as a prussic when weighted.

You can find short hanks of rope on Wes Spurs site under clearance rope http://www.wesspur.com/clearance/clearance-rope.html...or at treestuff https://www.treestuff.com/store/products.asp?category_id=191.

For my hitch cord I use beeline or ocean polyester...but the tenex that houser 52 uses is also vey good.


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

Thanks. You run two hitches on that?


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## Just One (Mar 13, 2011)

Great info


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I just bought some Ocean Vectran 6mm Cord from treestuff.com. I am going to see if it will work as a pursik type knot on some 3/8" static line. I am going to use the Schwabisch and see how I like it.

Thanks for all the information and the link to treestuff. The guy that answered the phone at treestuff was very helpful and answered my questions with expertize.


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## OhioBoneCrusher (Nov 13, 2010)

Tagged


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

My ocean vectran 6mm cord is gripping the 3/8" static line so tight that I am having trouble making it slide when using the schwabisch hitch. I modified the Schwabisch by taking two turns off the top of the knot. I can now get the hitch to slip by pulling down on the top of the knot.

Does anyone know if it is common practice to reduce the number of turns on a hitch to get the amount of friction that works best with the two lines?


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## shovelhead 79 (Oct 20, 2009)

tag


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

*This thread warms my heart to see so many people actively thinking about safety.*

The man who originally got me into archery climbed into a tree that some one had cut through the chain attempting to steel his stand but gave up half way through. He always tied in when he got in but in this case the chain failed before he was able to hookup. A broken back and a 2 mile crawl later he was eventually found by the UPS man. Thankfully, he has made a full recovery.

My Uncle slipped and fell out of his stand because he didn't believe in safety ropes, a broken back and lacerated liver later he started to rethink that opinion of safety ropes. He survived only because a family friend who happen by chance to be in the same area of the woods head him yell when he fell and went to investigate. Luckily he has made a reasonable recovery but has chronic back pain.

An old hunting acquaintance fell out of his stand an broke his neck, he didn't die but some days he wished he had. He has significant paralysis and requires almost constant help to live his . 

Last story, I had just shot a nice 8 point buck when I saw a hunter hobbling through the woods I went to investigate and it was a friend of mine who had fallen from his tree and was attempting to get out of the woods with a broken leg. 

So the next time you think that the safety rope is a pain, consider the real physical and mental pain you'll be in when that fall happens. If you spend your hunting life in the tree's you will eventually fall and hopefully you'll be praising the fact that you read this thread and polished your safety system to perfection. 

Thanks for reading and contributing to this thread.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

One more question. My static line is white. What can I use to make it brown or grey?


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## straightedge (Jun 7, 2013)

Mountiangear.com , moosejaw.com , rei.com , justropes.com, and backcountry.com. All have rope and accessory cordage with ratings and diameter just make sure to specify color and length.


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## MissStalker (Nov 28, 2013)

I make my own prussiks, and other stuff. Used to do a lot of rock climbing, was once upon a time an instructor for a Girl Scout climbing program. I have no problem using rock climbing equipment for tree climbing, *where suitable*, and understand the physics behind it all. I'm actually very afraid of falling, so if I don't feel safe, I can't get my feet off the ground. "I'm safe" has been my mantra when unfounded fear threatens to freeze me.


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## Benclose (Apr 8, 2004)

Just bought hunting land with 6 or 8 stands with safety ropes that have been out on the stands for 2 to 4 years. How fast will the ropes degrade when left out in the sun?


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## Byron (May 14, 2005)

Benclose said:


> Just bought hunting land with 6 or 8 stands with safety ropes that have been out on the stands for 2 to 4 years. How fast will the ropes degrade when left out in the sun?


They should really only be left out during hunting season. For safety, I suggest cutting up those lines and replacing them with new ones.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Byron said:


> They should really only be left out during hunting season. For safety, I suggest cutting up those lines and replacing them with new ones.


My thoughts exactly!


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## vietvet50 (Oct 18, 2006)

Statistics say 1 in 3 treestand users will fall in their hunting lifetime. Please Folks always use a harness and always use a safety climbing rope, Your Families love You and You have many years of hunting yet.


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## tankdogg60 (Aug 1, 2005)

I just ordered a 100 meter roll of 8 mil dynamic climbing rope. Enough to make roughly 12 lifelines for $150. I use the 5 mil for the prussics. I use a 3ft piece and tie a double fisherman's knot and wrap it 3 times for the prussic. I end up with around $16 or so per lifeline


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