# Martin Models



## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Not disagreeing with your sentinments but the reality of the situation is that 90% of the people that buy bows in this country are male and this type of add has appealed to most of us since the begining of time. That is why you see the TV adds you do during football games, hockey, and sports in general. Sex does really sell. If it didn't Madison ave wouldn't use it. The fact is us men just aren't all that removed from our basic instincts. Archery which is NOT a real upscale sport attracts a high proportion of nuckle dragging ******* MEN who LOVE looking at halfclad women. Get used to it. That's the way God made us. If someone wants to hang around upscale brie eating wine sipping refined yuppies I suggest you look at Golf or talk to Oxford. He's from California.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

and the moral majority finally speaks.

gotta ask this first....did YOU buy one? if ya dont like what you hear/see, change the station.

ok....how about the old ridge tool calander?, anyone remember that?

what about car and bike magazines?....i ALWAYS see a scantily clad woman on the cover. what about the sports illustrated calender and swimsuit edition? what about the classic ads from bear archery, and bambi (cant remember the ad, but remember the content of the ad)?

oh wait, you're kinda young.....lets not forget the ever more exploitive music industry and the videos they produce....dont forget the lyrics of some songs is pretty bad (meaning poor taste) too

fact of the matter is sex sells regardless of gender.

all things being equal, i find the martin calenders and ads in much better taste than name calling, lies and half truths. calling out a competitors product by name, and running a picture of their product in YOUR ad is in greatly poor taste. expound the virtues of your product instead of trying harder to discredit one of your industry's competitor.

terry, griv, jimmyd, the wilde bunch and all the fine folx at martin.....keep it up, you guys are doin fine with the ads and calender.

and if you really wanna know, i bought one of aya's calenders too.


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## YNGARCHER (Jun 17, 2003)

Hello,
I would also like to point out that I love Martin bows and by impling that I do the name an injustice by writing about it is a false accusation. The fact of the matter is that the best representation of the bow is an archer that shows respect to others and the sport. Good representation of the bow is through sportsmanship not by ads. My main point is, must we stoop to the level of all other sports just to sell a project. The company has great bows and already has marvoulus sales. Are the pictures of those women really needed? The comments I wrote weren't at all against Martin, and if it was percieved that way I do apologize.

My final point is why does my age matter? I have just as valid of an opinion as the next guy. I am the next generation of archers, and I promote the sport to my generation. That will help to keep the sport going strong, and by showing me disrespect by stigmatizing me because I am young doesn't help me to wish to continue in a sport that doesn't allow me to have an opinion.
My opinion is valid whether I am 15 or 34. Yes, I still growing up and experiencing life, but the truth is this is my sport too. I have every right to state my ideas. I really didn't mean it as offensive. 
Oh and okay maybe 90% of all the archers are male, but does having half naked women in ads to sell products really help to balance out the statisitic and make it so more women join. I think not. I do agree that sales more than likely will increase, but for what causes?


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

My wife wants to buy me a bow for our 10th anniversery. No reason to keep it a secret because picking out a bow is a technical thing. She has NO archery knowledge or experience, she's never shot and really doesn't have the urge to.

However, when I said I wanted a Martin she instantly said.."Oh the company that advertises with the pretty girls"..BINGO!! She knows nothing about Martin but she's seen the ads in my magazines and, most importantly, remembers them. BTW she is all woman and not offended by them at all.

Those Martin ads are way better than what Mathews, Hoyt, Darton and Bodoodle have put out this last year.


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## YNGARCHER (Jun 17, 2003)

The ads that had the original martin girl in them were great. I loved them. But the calander is a different story. That is what I meant to say. Sorry for the confusion.


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## HV Bowman (Sep 30, 2002)

If you are offended by the Martin Ads then you would have had a stroke at the Bear archery ad years ago of a totally topless young lady holding a Bear bow. It's not as if these women are naked. Regarding your age, you might not think it relavent but those of us who have been on this earth for some time have learned that whether you like it or not sex appeal does help sell, regardless of what the product and the sooner you understand it the sooner you can get past it. As unfortunate as it may seem to you this sport is heavily weighted in the male genders favor. Manufacturers do what they must to capture our attention and if a pretty gal can do that so much the better. If these women were totally naked I too would have a complaint but personally I think you are be hypercritical over little or nothing. If this is the only thing you can find fault with I think you are fighting not only a losing battle but one the few if any will care about.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

THAT`S IT! 

I need another calendar like I need a hole in the head, but I am buying one now. And I don`t even shoot Martins.

I`m gonna hang it up in the kitchen and make my wife look at the pictures every day! 

Some folks need to lighten up a little.

Political correctness run amuck!


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## 1bigtaco (Nov 3, 2003)

*yngarcher*

Why dont you scroll down the page and look at the ad for archeryhistory.com.......I'd hit it =). In a few years you will understand why we like boobs, sex sells. The girls in the pictures is the only reason im buying a Martin


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## beezaur (Aug 7, 2003)

Not all of us are nuckle draggers. It is disappointing to me that something which I try to view as a kind of precision instrument is advertised as though it were a poorly designed hunk of scrap intended for the mouth-breathing crew.

I like scantily clad women as much as the next guy. But all the same, it doesn't fit with my impression of precision shooting equipment.

I really do try to ignore the ad when I think of the kind of effort I put into my shooting, and what I want out of my equipment.

Scott


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## JDES900X (May 22, 2002)

> The ads that had the original martin girl in them were great. I loved them. But the calander is a different story. That is what I meant to say. Sorry for the confusion.



Too bad you feel that way. My wife and I think those girls are Hot!!!!


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## UltraShooter (Jan 30, 2003)

It never ceases to amaze me what people can find to complain about in this world when there is so much more people should be focusing on...its no different than people complaining about the Dillion Precision catalog cover...get over it and worry about yourself or help a worthy cause in life!!

Rockmonkey had a good point regarding the music videos. I've seen more things on MTV that should make you upset versus some dressed woman holding a bow!


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

WOW! I was just about to post about a new Martin advertising idea I dreamed up on my afternoon shift last night and then I came across this post. 
ATTENTION GRIV- when advertising for the Cougar, shouldn't you have a good looking 40 year old instead of these cute 20 somethings? You know, maybe Demi Moore could be the new Cougar model?   I know this is cheesy, but, just had to post.


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

IMHO YNGARCHER has a valid point of contention here. Seems we haven't looked closely at both sides of the issue at hand that has been pointed out, (even tho we've looked at all sides of the pics! ) or from another shooters' perspective.(who has every right to speak her mind also) After actually thinking about this instead of simply drooling over the pics, I must agree with both she and Scott on this one--- is this really the way we want to promote our sport? I mean, REALLY? Yeah a few extra sales are nice, but at what overall cost to the integrity of our sport? Maybe we should hire Kid Rock and his entourage of porn queens for Saturday night at Vegas, too? LOL

A fine line we draw and walk......

I remember it wasn't long ago that some of the regulars here were extremely adamant that the sport should have an air of "Professionalism" with dress codes in all formats and everyone should carry themselves in a dignified manner, much like our archery ancestors in their "appropriate" dress did. (We even had a picture show on that also) Yet some of them now are completely turned around and are promoting this "new" advertising campaign! Boy, we've come a long way from that "high standard of Professionalism" in a few months haven't we? LOL. And yet some still worry and/or point fingers at "Bubba" wearing a T-shirt? Or wearing jeans with a hole in them? Hmmmm, something goofy here if you ask me, "double standard" quickly comes to mind.

I just wanna know when we will introduce the brass pole---if we're going to do it this way, do it right! haha (just kidding)

Seriously--
I thought the first pics of Lisa were used tastefully, but I personally do not see that anymore with this new series. (JMHO) Altho I'm as red-blooded as the next guy and certainly love beautiful women who are scantily clad, I think there is a time and place for everything, and I'm not so sure that this is the direction that Martin should really take this and agree with others that it may put the wrong impressions/ideas about our sport into peoples' minds----especially those who may be thinking about getting their FAMILY or KIDS involved. Just my own thoughts. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

YNGARCHER:
Nothing that you've said is really wrong. You are correct that the calendar wouldn't appeal to most mainstream women and probably might actually offend a few potential women. The fact about women's participation in this sport is that 90% of the women I've seen got started in it because of thier husband/boyfriend/father got them started in it. Most women do not gravitate to it on thier own. Since they already have a husband/boyfriend/father who is involved in the sport chances are that they have allready seen this male figure look at other scantily clad women pics during sporting events, magazine adds, and in other places. In other words they have already gotten used to it. He is a guy therefore he will look at pictures of scantily clad women and you can't change that. They sometimes put up with our behavior just because they like us. So when they see the Martin calendar it really won't matter to most of them. They've seen this stuff many times before. It doesn't really bother them anymore.


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## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

Pinwheel 12 said:


> *A fine line we draw and walk......
> 
> Seriously--
> I thought the first pics of Lisa were used tastefully, but I personally do not see that anymore with this new series. (JMHO) Altho I'm as red-blooded as the next guy and certainly love beautiful women who are scantily clad, I think there is a time and place for everything, and I'm not so sure that this is the direction that Martin should really take this and agree with others that it may put the wrong impressions/ideas about our sport into peoples' minds----especially those who may be thinking about getting their FAMILY or KIDS involved. Just my own thoughts. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12 *


Lord knows Pinwheel and I don't see eye to eye on some things  but I'm 100% in agreement with him here! well put Kevin!


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

Well first an foremost I have to say….

Bring on the ladies!!!

However, We need MORE attitudes in archery and archery competitions. We need Fog machines rolling, Lights flashing and “theme music” introducing archers to the shooting arena in head to head completions. We need crazy announcers and big screen TV’s at archery competitions to generate and hold excitement.

However the contestants should be well dressed and behaved. It should be quite during the shooting. However 5 minutes on the line and 5 minutes pulling arrow leaves about ½ of the shoot that could be “entertaining” if done right.

This may generate an audience, This may generate” non –archer” sponsors. This will generate kids putting down there joysticks and picking up a bow

And when they introduce Jimmy D and he come strolling into the shooting area with the Martin “babe” on his right arm I’m going shout Heck Yea!!!

Then pray his wife is not behind me in the stands


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## UltraShooter (Jan 30, 2003)

"This will generate kids putting down there joysticks and picking up a bow"

centerx...I couldn't agree with you more with that remark


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

before we all get tooo nutty about this issue, let me remind you the target audience for the ads and the calenders are two entirely different demographics.

the ads are meant for the general population. whether or not you like them, they are done in a taste that is acceptable to all regardless of age, who read the publication they are in. they are there, free for the viewing to anyone.

the calenders on the other hand, are not. you choose to either view them by purchasing or you dont. you make a conscious decision to enjoy the photographic art and the images contained in them.

if you dont like the movie thats playing, dont buy a ticket and complain.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

YNGARCHER
I agree with you. I think most of these shots are there just to please the yobbos who like howling at the moon and panting. Yes they are pretty etc etc and pleasing to look at, however I would rather see a company support women in archery by using real archers (yes I know the original blonde is an archer, but she's not an active competitor, those photos were OK) in their adverts. 
I think what Ox has done with Tiffany for the Winner's Choice add is great (classy), and Aya's depiction of women in the sport is awesome. 
Sorry, but some of these Martin images are just plain trashy.

Protest with your feet Yngarcher, go buy yourself a Hoyt, a company that sponsors many of the worlds top young female archers because they shoot well, not because they are pretty.


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

I guarantee there's an ad exect in Hoyt's advertising realm that is pushing to put the Hoyt women in shorter shirts and a tighter tank top for whatever adds they run.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Big Country said:


> *THAT`S IT!
> 
> I need another calendar like I need a hole in the head, but I am buying one now. And I don`t even shoot Martins.
> 
> ...


You better watch it; you are getting more RedNecked every day...
Pretty soon you will be hunting on a high fenced place with DT and Me....  

By the way I love the calendar.... Anybody don't like it don't look at it.... as far as I know no one is holding a gun to your head making you look...


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## Targetnut (Oct 21, 2002)

The reason we exist is that women are attractive to men. Well most of them.......

Targetnut


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## Oxford (Jun 26, 2002)

*babes and bows*

Using sex appeal can be done tastefully. I don't think the calendar is very tasteful in that regards but perhaps George and Terry wanted it to appeal to the typical bowhunter who likes things simple and not too "fancied up". 

"Yeehaw" marketing requires a straight forward approach. That's the way it is. That's the way they did it. It will probably work well for them.

If Martin had hired me to design that calendar, I think I would have found a visual middle ground that would have appealed to a broader market segment and offered a little more creative style and less blatant T&A....(hint) 

My recent ad for Winner's Choice is an example.

http://www.oxgroup.com/wc/


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## Harald (Sep 12, 2003)

Just had a peep at the calendar
Thought the girls where pretty....
A bit overdressed maybe...... but definately pretty!!!


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Great Marketing*

I like it. Consider it a refreshing alternative to the politically correct anal retentive left and the feminist movement. I think the most sucessful ad campaigns have something to grab your attention and then focus your interest on the product. I like the thinking in these ads. The girls make you think about scoring and what will improve your score more than a Martin bow. 
Jbird


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Oxford;

You are correct; the AT calendar could have been done in a more politically correct manner. And for what it is worth, the copy you selected for the Winners Choice ad is very nicely done. 

But, in a different way I still appreciate the Archery Talk Calendar.

And as many have said, I won't take my copy to the office; it would not play well with the women, whom I deal with on a frequent basis.

That said I do enjoy the calendar from a nostalgic point of view, as well as it being aesthetically pleasing to a fifty plus year old man.

The calendar to my knowledge; is not part of an ad campaign; but offered for sale to those of us who find it appealing. 

I appreciate that we now live in a world where our actions are dictated by political correctness. That fact is one reason this calendar appeals to me, it is reminiscent of a time before Doctor Spock, and all the other BS, that afflicts our society today.

It will hang proudly on the wall in my home office, my retreat from the world as it is today.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

The calendar is not part of an ad campaign. It was designed specifically for Archery Talk and ArcheryHistory.com. We hoped to get enough pre orders to pay for the run and we expected the proceeds to help pay for the site. The monthly fees are very expensive and the bandwidth usages for this site are astronomical (nearly 20 million page views a month). 

The Martin Girl ad campaign has been the most successful that we have ever done. Usually when an ad full of specs, bow pictures, and dead animal photos goes to print, we don’t hear a peep about it and most of our dealers completely miss it. This new campaign is getting the ads noticed and it is selling bows. I don’t think our girls in the ads are obscene in any way. Their outfits are not anymore suggestive and revealing than any teenager, at any mall, on a Saturday night. 

I have gotten maybe eight calls and three or four emails complaining about the ad (the first one with Lisa Wilcox) and they mentioned that it was too revealing and they felt the need to protect their teenage sons from its perceived vulgarity. (She was wearing a tank top and some jeans while holding a bow) Frankly, I can’t comprehend their reaction. Do they also ban television in their homes? Do they ban their teenagers from the mall? Do they grocery shop? I've seen worse in the produce department at our small town grocery store. Three minutes on MTV is far more revealing and vulgar than any archery ad. On the flip side of that I have gotten several dozen positive comments about the ads. All I can say to that is thanks for noticing. 

The simple fact is that archery is not growing. We need to attract attention and Ads full of stats and shooters and bow specs are not getting it done. We followed that formula for fifty years and our tight little archery community might stop and read one every now and then, but the people that we need are outside our little bubble out there in the real world. Pretty girls attract their attention. When they do decide to try archery, we hope they remember the ads with the pretty girls in them. So far, it seems to be working.


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## x-ring (Jul 5, 2002)

Pinwheel 12 said:


> *.... Maybe we should hire Kid Rock and his entourage of porn queens for Saturday night at Vegas, too? LOL....
> 
> *


Great idea Pinwheel12!!! With Kid Rock we might actually get some TV coverage for the sport of archery.  At least these calandars and ads get people talking....it's a start to get our sport to grow. Martin archery is attracting attention and I give them a thumbs up for that. Seems these pictures are sparking more interest or talk about archery than all the money spent to promote the WC in NY  Can someone actually tell me what ever happened to the "big plug" archery was going to get during the WC event?? I would sure like to know. Oh well, until someone else gets some growth in this sport I say "C'mon Martin!! Bring it on!!!" 

Jon


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## Outdoor Gal (Oct 23, 2003)

Hey Griv! As an adult female, let me just say I'm happy we live in America, where we still have some freedoms of choice and speech. IMHO, I gotta agree with the comments of "buy or don't buy, look or don't look", re: calendars or any other item or product on the market. By the way, speaking of appearances, the new Catalog is AWESOME!!! 

OK, tongue in cheek here, but since you're getting so much buz re: the calendar, how about some ads targeted at women... say, hunky male models holding bows in the new cool graphics, that state something like "hunting has never been so much fun", or "If you're good enough, maybe you can bag one of these"  I could just see big colorful ads in popular women's magazines, and all the gals at the hairstylists shops chatting about them and showing them to each other!  

To all those who read and post here on AT, I enjoy reading everyone's comments whether I agree with them or not. But IMHO, in the interest of the sport (weren't there a bunch of comments about stagnant growth, needing to attract people to the sport etc?) perhaps it would be worthwhile to express our opinions without sounding like personal attacks.  Especially on the young, and/or new archers. One young person lost or gained to the sport may not seem like much, but young people have friends, and friends have influence. Also, I don't know the age of youngarcher, but most youngsters need good parental support for transportation to ranges, money to purchase equipment, club memberships, etc. Lose one young person, and the rest of the family of potential archers is also lost. Just a thought.

Good shooting to all, and enjoy!


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Outdoor Gal said:


> *
> OK, tongue in cheek here, but since you're getting so much buz re: the calendar, how about some ads targeted at women... say, hunky male models holding bows *


Hunky you wanted - Hunky you get !!!  

Here's a sneak peak at the new Mathews ad that's targeted at women.

* Note he's a winner like the rest of the Mathews shooters - check out the trophy in the background *


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## pinwheel5 (Jun 1, 2002)

ROTFLMAO!!!


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## Tyler88 (Mar 9, 2003)

*I dont understand*

Like many people have said, the reason that Martin puts hot ladies in their ads is that a majority of the people that buy bows are men, and these ads have been appealing to men since men came to be. I dont understand why people still complain about women being shown in bikinis or less, because no matter what you say, theres still alot of people out there that like those ads, me being included


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

My eyes!!! my eyes!!! I'm blind now. For the love of god please erase the pic.


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## wdbowhunter (Feb 26, 2003)

That is hands down the funniest thing I have seen on here!!!! I do have to agree with Punch Master though, I think my vision is starting to blur.


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## SteveR (Sep 18, 2002)

YNGARCHER said:


> My main point is, must we stoop to the level of all other sports just to sell a project.


Of course, that is what sales is all about. Attracting attention to your product and then proving the product is something the customer needs or should have. If your market is predominately male, there is no better way to attract attention, then to use beautiful women. Beautiful women (even those who are fully clothed), do a great job of attracting men's attention . I find nothing offensive about Martin's ads (they seem tastefully done), but then again, I'm a guy.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Outdoor Gal, I will talk to Terry and see if his Photographer has a male or two that will pose with a bow.  If I can get one or two for you I will post them.


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## Outdoor Gal (Oct 23, 2003)

BigBirdVA, your picture was TOO FUNNY!  ha ha ha ha ha!  LOVED it!  I suppose you'll submit it to one of those "reality TV shows next!  Always good to start a Monday with a good laugh!  Tnx!


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## Outdoor Gal (Oct 23, 2003)

Hey Griv! Thanks for thinking of us gals re: photos!  Uhh, just don't take your style cues from BigBirdVA!  Don't think my eyes could take too many of those! ;D ha ha! Again congrats on a killer catalog!


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

BigBirdVA, YOU ARE ONE SICK DUDE!


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## Targetnut (Oct 21, 2002)

The reason your vision is going has nothing to do with that picture, Well I hope not........

Didn't your Mom tell you about that?

Targetnut


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## whitetail2nitro (Oct 23, 2003)

BigBirdVA, thanks to you...I think my next bow might be a Matthews.   Arrrrh, I think I just went blind.  Anybody else sport wood...or was it just me?


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

sporting wood over big birds pic? That's just sick whitetail. It was definately just you.


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## sapper1 (Oct 3, 2003)

*OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

BigBird,

Beleive it or not I went to college with the guy in that pic. He did the pictures him self and put them on the web. I thought I would never be subjected to that kind of torture again. He was pretty much the laughing stock of the college.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

I got the pic from another web site that had an assortment of what most of us would call dork types. And just to help your friend out he wasn't even that close to the others. 
I'm saving them for future posts.


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

YNGARCHER & PINWHEEL12 both have valid points and I agree those ads do not reach out to grab a new sector of the archery community. 

The real fact is that archery should be a family sport enjoyed by anyone no matter what sex, race, age, etc. If one of those groups feels the ads are not right then who has the right to say they are wrong? 

I like hot looking woman as much as the next person but I would rather keep it out of the archery magazines and I would rather see an ad that promotes the sport to the rest of my family, wife daughter & son (ok he is 13 he likes the ads  ) My wife does not and that is her right. She has even asked why a company couldn't try to appeal to more woman to get them involved in the sport. I am also disappointed that Winners Choice is working on an add in a similar fashion as Martin. Please note this is nothing against the products that Martin makes, they make great equipment and I highly respect their inovations over the years. 

Come on lets target woman, children, and bring archery back as a family oriented sport that can be enjoyed by anyone!


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Orion,

So you are saying that you would ban Tiffany Profant from winners choice ads because she is a good looking woman? Or are you saying that women can't sell product in the archery industry because their mere appearance in an ad is offensive?

Tiffany is a top notch bowhunter why is it that she can't promote archery to women or demonstrate the fact that archery is for the whole family? 

What archery ad out right now does target the family and promotes more than the product featured in the ad?


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## sapper1 (Oct 3, 2003)

Yep!! Thats the type of sight he posted them on. He acted like he was kinda proud of em to.


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

Quotes from GRIV :


1) "The simple fact is that Archery is not growing."



2) "What archery ad out right now does target the family and promotes more than the product featured in the ad?"



I think the answer is staring us in the face guys. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

martin *ADS* are in a taste that is acceptable in the general sense of the word to the general public. they are also free, usually included on a cover of any number of hunting magazines. 

martin *CALENDERS* are made for a specific purpose and clientelle (sp?). they are not free to the general public's viewing, unless someone has *PURCHASED* one and someone else sees it.

the way i see it, archers(as a whole) find it more acceptable for a company(choose any one of many) to run either a smear campaign or multiple page ads filled with half truths and groomed stats than it is to feature an attractive woman with an archery product.

who wins more tournaments? the guy/gal who shoots the most x's.

who has the better cam system for whatever reason?, the one that a person feels is the most reliable and accurate for them.

if most of you were shooting in the 70's, i wonder what your reactions would have been with the bear ad or the jennings ad or the buck stop ad? my oh my would you ultra conservatives would have had a cow.

griv is right, archery is stagnating. the calendar generates talk, it generates interest. what kid wouldnt love to grow up, win vegas and have the winston girls present him with the check and trophy? no one says nascar is sexist or chauvenistic but they all want to go to blows when it comes down to a drunken 'ford vs chevy' argument no one says tennis or golf isnt....ever see some of the outfits the players wear?, venus and serena just to name names. tennis and golf are the tv equivalant of drinking sand to me, but yet millions want to watch it. the GOG's is a good start....it adds some spice to a sport that isnt all that interesting to the outside.

i know its not a 'cool' sport.....i went thru that when i was a kid. the thing is, we need to show the nintendo generation that archery isnt all about hunting or 'killing' something. it can be about being the best you can at what you do. archery just isnt about the 'stick and string' or the indian side of history. its about being the best you can be, to be able to focus and perform under pressure to show the rest of the archery world what you can do.

my childhood idols were katie smith, john whaley and the old GLAD crew, darrell pace, jack cramer, larry wise, terry and michelle. none of these people got rich from the sport, but they did promote it and make it appealing to the masses. it was about being able to say 'I AM THE BEST' not pimping someone's wares because they pay me the best. sure the bows helped, but it wasnt ALL about the bow. how come easton doesnt have an ad that states 'the winningest arrows in the world'? no need to state the obvious.

im sure im about as right as the weatherman on this one, but yanno what.......get over it. this is like whinin over a thread that doesnt appeal/apply to you. dont read it, dont look at it, dont listen to it, skip it and move on......taking the time to read this thread, complain about something you could have chosen to not get involved with is YOUR problem. live YOUR life YOUR way, and i'll live MY life MY way. america is full of people that know whats better for everyone else. its time they worried about themselves and what's in their own 4 walls instead of whats better for me according to them.....some of em need a punch in the mouth for a wakeup call.

griv..........can you bump my order up to *FIVE* instead of three?

and to answer your question pinwheel, i think the answer is spending more time whining about something they dont need to instead of doing something to make this sport better for all of us


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## YNGARCHER (Jun 17, 2003)

Rock Monkey,
I thought your point was valid. You are right, I didn't have to look at it. Just as I didn't have to look at the pictures doesn't mean I can't say something. You didn't have to read my post on the martin models, if you didn't like it you could have went to a different post. 

"i think the answer is spending more time whining about something they dont need to instead of doing something to make this sport better for all of us" As for this statement. I do spend my free time making the sport better. I promote it in my school as well as assist in instructing bowhunter education courses. I don't just sit at my computer and whine about things. My post wasn't whining it was just a statement of my feelings. 
As to people sitting around whining about things, can you listen to your own words, you are whining about what I wrote. I see no difference in what you did to what I did.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i bought a calender, actually i want *FIVE* of them just because some people find them offensive. im helping promote the free speech of archers helping archers

well......ya got me there. geez, you're just tooo good.....i bet you were a cop in a previous life.


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## YNGARCHER (Jun 17, 2003)

How does our constant ridicule of one another do any good. Lets just give it up. Neither is winning. We are just resorting to little pushes and shoves.


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

RockMonkey-

Of course you have a right to your opinion, just as everyone here does. But one thing must be said---No-one is "whining" here, everyone has a valid approach, opinions, and comments from what I see, including yourself. I for one feel Terry and George have done great things here with Archery History and the many pages of great info on equipment I remember well from over the years, and then some I don't!  I certainly thank them for their time spent on that, as we all should. And then Archerytalk-- by opening up these boards to open conversation it has brought some very very good and interesting things to the forefront. 

Having said that, unfortunately when you bring as many archers together as we have here into one community, opinions will run rampant, and conflicts are bound to arise. The more members, the more opinions, the more conflicts. Moral issues arise in every day life, and we deal with them. But to have them also arise in our SPORT seemed almost unimaginable to me, all except for the bootleg nude Bear ads that ran back in the 70's. Oh well, fast forward to 2003.....

The answer to this issue is as I quoted from George IMHO--- No-one places ads dedicated to the sport being something to be enjoyed as a family unit---after reading Georges' post on that it hit me like a sledge---absolutely correct! My next question is of course, WHY NOT?  Of course the current "campaign" of sex selling bows will work to an extent, but as many have stated (not just me, and I didn''t start it thank-you) that really isn't the way we want to go, is it? REALLY??? OK, nuff said on the "sex sells" stuff. I'm done with it, I think that point has been well made.

But-

Targeting the entire family unit may just help our sport more than we know, seeing as there are no current ads out there doing so . THAT was my point. You asked to figure out a way to help the sport instead of "whine", well there it is, pointed out in the above post to everyone as a valid alternative, and one that I would certainly support strongly, as I know others here would.


Bring the families in, bring the kids in, target THAT lifestyle. No-one has all of the answers, no, but IMHO promoting archery as a family-oriented sport and advertising in such a way would be extremely beneficial to our sport. For the sport to grow, first we need to plant the seed.  JMHO. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12


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## bowbender7 (Jun 1, 2002)

I think the fact that has been pecked around here is that there is not much in the way of "family activities" anymore. This is to be blamed on the parents raising todays teenagers. The kids want independence, dad wants to go hunt/ fish, mom works and has tupperware parties in between running someone somewhere for some kind of "practice"

Look at the cover of Lancasters new catalog, my old issue of Fred Bears "Archers Bible" has pictures all through it like the one on that cover. Mom, dad, and kids all shooting some FITA or field with their own bows - for fun. It seems to me that it used to be fairly popular as a family activity.

I think I saw two or three kids (under 13) at our state outdoor - very sad!

Walk into a bow shop just about anywhere - they wont appeal to some inquisitive soul who wanders in with the idea of getting a bow and arrow to shoot for fun. They will be overwhelmed by all things hunting related. I really wonder how many people walk into bow shops every year as above and quietly walk out never to pursue the little flame that got them thinking about shooting archery?

Some that do will be left with 3d as their only choice of local competitive venue - some will succeed, many will fall into the trap of needing more speed and crank up the pounds and or lengthen their draw length in an attempt to be competitive only to ruin their chances of a lasting hobby and burning out, or quiting out of frustration.

Martins ad campaign is directed at a market. I dont know exact figures but I'll guess 90% or more of all bows sold every year are for hunting. This market is being directly tapped with sexy ads.
At least they are not filling peoples minds with page after page of BS and untruths.

It aint Martins fault that the market is what it is.

Sean


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

With all of the alternative activities available to kids today, it is tough for archery to compete for their time.

That said, our JOAD program at our archery club is growing steadily! 

75 kids enrolled this winter.


Think I might have to post one of the Martin calendars in the shooting room.


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

GRIV

Yes I think the ad for winner’s choice is tasteless - how does that ad appeal to woman & promote archery as a family sport? Yes she is a great archery & could be a great spokeswoman for the sport but how does that ad want to make a woman or young girl want to shoot archery? Honestly it is targeted to the male audience and it will do a great job at grabbing their attention but as far as woman & children....forget it. 

You have your opinion & since you work for Martin I expect you to defend them, the ad campaign, etc. I truely respect your point of view. you guys are targeting the largest group of archers who buy equipment which is male and their is nothing wrong with that either, any business should have the goal to make money and do what they need to do. 

I am just saying the ads are not doing anything to bring new members into archery that are not male. Archery seems to be stagnant, we need to attract woman & children to the sport and if they desire bowhunting as well. I am more concerned about the future than immediate sales of a product. From that perspective we are in different opinions and perspectives but I honestly hope you can respect where my point of view is coming from. I understand yours and the position marketing plays in sales, sounds like from that perspective you have a great campaign that is working for your company and that is great but I would rather see a campaign targeted to bring new people into the sport that doesn’t fit the population you or winner’s choice is targeting. 

This is my opinion and nothing against anyone, I am not here to fight, I am just concerned about our sport and hunting in general.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Orion and others,

I am not here to fight either, and I respect your point of view. 

There are a few things that you may not understand completely. An ad from a manufacturer that is placed in a magazine is for one purpose, and that is to attract attention to the brand and to the product that appears in the ad. Every year the audience becomes more and more jaded to marketing techniques, and sometimes you have to do something totally different to stay in the public eye. There are a few ways to handle that. You can go with the shotgun approach and place huge 10 page spreads in every magazine that might see a archery person, Of you can be provocative in some way like discontinuing all of your cam styles and replacing them with a new and seemingly different system, or you can do something that shocks the reader like using bold clever language, a beautiful woman, or a bull rider on a giant bull, just to name a few. The name of the game is Grab Their Attention, and during those 3 seconds you have to quickly and concisely sell the product and compel them to buy. No matter which way a manufacturer chooses to go, it has to be memorable, create buzz, and above all compel them to buy. When a manufacturer places an ad in a magazine it is usually not with the intention of promoting archery; it is with the intention of selling product to a target audience. 

When a manufacturer intends to promote archery, they do not do it with ads directly. Take Martin Archery for instance; over our long history in the archery business we have promoted archery in a variety of different ways. This archery forum is one example. We give monetary and equipment donations to groups like 4H, Boy Scouts of America, Bowhunter Defense Fund, NRA, school archery programs, and archery clubs all over the country. We have sponsored programs like JOAD, USAT, and we sponsor major shoots like IBO Worlds, World Archery Festival, Most National events, and a host of smaller events through equipment donations. Most of the major archery manufacturers and many small archery manufacturers are right there with us supporting archery and promoting the sport from the inside out. Just as one example of collaborative support from manufacturers I can tell you that if it were not for companies like Martin, Hoyt, PSE, Easton, and others directing and financially supporting the Vegas shoot for nearly 30 years, it would not be here today. 

With every piece of archery equipment sold by the archery manufacturers a tiny amount of the profit from that sale goes back into the archery community. Without equipment sales there is there can be no profit, no donations, no community support, and ultimately no manufacturer. Without aggressive marketing campaigns to keep the product in the forefront and on the tip of the public’s tongue, there are no sales. We can’t sit around and assume that someone else is going to keep the sport alive. We can’t assume that there will always be someone out there to make the donations and sponsor the shoots. We have to be proactive and generate the sales and the funds any way we know how. All manufacturers ultimately have the same goal and that is to stay in business and foster growth in the sport. Most of us worker bees in the archery industry do it because we love it, not because we are getting rich, and we will continue to do it as long as the industry can support us and our families. If a provocative ad is needed to compel the archery buying pubic to purchase one of our bows, so be it. 

Lastly, I am a firm believer in the idea that in order to bring the women and kids into the sport, you have to catch dad or the young men in the community. They in turn will introduce it to their wives or girlfriends and kids. How many of us started in the sport without a male friend or family member introducing us to the sport? Print ads are very expensive and they are a large portion of a company’s bottom line. We have to cut as deeply into the market as we can with each ad or otherwise it is wasted. 

I am sorry that this is so long, but I feel that it was worth saying.


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## OneBowTie (Jun 14, 2002)

*JERRY SPRINGER,OPRAH,GOOD MORNING AMERICA*

the list goes on and on......just take a good look at what the public wants....for all on here that say "sex doesnt sell" your wrong....

heck the springer show got so popular that long time "wholesome" shows started losing "audience/customer base" that so called wholesome programs had to revert to "exposing more"......

and for all on here that talk about promoting archery to the family.....its apparent that in this country....events and promotions that tend to cater to "family only" seem to be going extinct....whens the last time you saw a bowling alley being built???? how about anything that is really geared toward family???? how about this....how many new "boys or girls clubs have gone out of business vs new ones being built???? whens the last time you saw a STRONG BOY OR GIRL SCOUTS PACK???

you see, its time to face it.....no growth in archery cause for years it tried to cater to the family ........and "family orientated business" seems to be fastly becoming extinct......

if archery is too just maintain, stay status quo....let alone gain in popularity....it better start doing things different from the "OLD SCHOOL" methods....cause them methods arent working....i would be willing to bet, with martins current ad campaigns....it will have an increase in market share....when most business's right now are fighting to just exist....cause they are catering to the core buyers of archery equipment..

believe me, i believe that any family that plays together, stays together....but the sad reality is....business's that are geared toward "family" are declining at a alarming rate....so archery needs all of us and than some....the and some is what martin is "fishing for"....cant say i fault them for stepping outside the box.....just as martin stepped outside of the box with this here forum.....its not the typical way of any other archery company....and yet it has paid off in spades for martin...just look at how many on here have "switched" over or claim to have switched to the martin brand....and since this board....other archery companys have put up internet sites and wish they could get the exposure this site is getting....

if you dont want a calendar......dont buy one....but maybe someone else on here does and will.....if you dont like certain ads in catalogs...dont pick one up or take it home....chances are...someone else will want it....thats the beauty of this country....WE STILL HAVE CHOICE.....


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

This site is here to promote archery and it is an out of pocket expense for the owner Terry Martin. The calendar is his creative idea to generate funds to help make this site self sufficient.

If you like this site, buy some calendars and help support it. If you own a business, buy an ad on the site. If you don’t like girls on your calendar, just make a donation to the site. Right now, we do not have enough pre-orders to make a printing of the calendars. We need to sell about 600 of them to cover the costs of printing, so if you want one pre-order it now here http://www.archeryhistory.com/merch/merch.htm 

There are also some other really cool things you can buy to show your support on that page that don’t have anything to do with girls. Click the shop button and do a little promotion of archery yourself. 

If you are a business owner or you just want to do more buy and ad by clicking here
http://www.archeryhistory.com/advertising/form.htm 

Advertise your business, your shoots, public service message, etc. 

I will make a banner ad for you if you for free if you do not have one.

I challenge all of you to give back, be proactive, and support the site that gives you a place to be heard by the industry and the archery community. If you guys want to promote archery and do your part to grow the sport, Bring in some new members, spread the word, or at the least buy a book, video, photo, calendar, hat, or make a donation.


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## Shirt (Aug 31, 2002)

*Re: JERRY SPRINGER,OPRAH,GOOD MORNING AMERICA*



onebowtie said:


> *
> heck the springer show got so popular that long time "wholesome" shows started losing "audience/customer base" that so called wholesome programs had to revert to "exposing more"......
> *


Go Jerry, go Jerry, go Jerry... 

Thoroughly great guy, bringing real life stories right into your homes...


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## Boondocker (Feb 23, 2003)

OK, I guess I'm a big supporter of archery when I look at all the equipment I've accomulated. Similarly, I support wildlife by purchasing hunting and fishing licences.

I just placed an order for a calendar, one more closer to 600.
What is the present order count at?


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

ANyoen have martins 800 Number handy Shop is clsoed Thanks


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## Outdoor Gal (Oct 23, 2003)

Africanbowhunter, I don't know of any 800 # for Martin Archery, but their customer service # is 1-509-529-2554. Good luck!


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

Thanbks That what I need Catalog in Shop clsoed thsio weekend for deer season doe days TINK


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

3 more calendars ordered! 

Are we getting close?


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## razors edge (Nov 19, 2002)

*martin's ad*

just think if they used HILLARY'S picture they could have closed the doors!!!!!!!


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## Hunter440 (Jan 25, 2003)

I like the calendars and plan on getting at least one.

But it would be nice if there was one with some "action shots" of Martin shooters at some of the big tournaments.

The "model" one is a bit much for the office but one of the shooters and bows would be a great for getting an archery conversation started!


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: martin's ad*



razorsedge said:


> *just think if they used HILLARY'S picture they could have closed the doors!!!!!!! *



That thought pretty much ruined my supper!


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