# What sight would you use on an Oly recurve?



## Sturdyman (Oct 30, 2009)

Newbie question. What sight would you use on an Oly recurve and why? I am partial to the Axcell 4500 because of the adjustability. If you look at my signature you will see that I have the Axcell 3000 on my compound. I have seen the Cartel, Shiboya, CBE, and others. Which would you use? Is weight a prime concern in the recurve world? Is the vertical range of prime importance? 

Please feel free to comment. I see more compound archers in my club than recurve and am in need of advice. I will be shooting spots and field.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Sturdy -

I'm not familiar with that sight (at all), but on a recurve shooting Olympic/FITA distances you need a long sight rack (enough sight travel to go from 20 yds indoors to 70M or 90M outdoors). In your case, 20' to 80 yds for field.

I like the Sure-Loc sights and the Contender-X is fine for most shooting purposes. Shiboya has excellent sights in the same price range as does Cartel. Definitely stay away from cheaper sights; a good sight will last you quite a while and it's one place you don't want to skimp.

Viper1 out.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

Viper1 said:


> I'm not familiar with that sight (at all)
> 
> Viper1 out.


http://www.axcelsights.com/AX3000.html

I seriously considered one before I purchased my Sure-Loc Supreme, and my coach uses one. The two are very similar. This one has twice the clicks-per-inch as the Sure-Loc, but the knobs are very stiff to move. It is also very heavy. But, it has a number of other desired features, like a small scale for the windage and such. It is very nice, but I like the Sure-Loc sights better.


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## Big.Dave (Dec 13, 2009)

The recurve version is the Axcel AX4500 would be the one to go for but after that Sure-Loc Quest X or a Supreme with a long rail or Shibuya Dual click or ultima are all top sights and all are use by world class archers.

I use and prefer the Sure-Loc Quest X the features it has just swing it for me. but you cannot go wrong with any of the above choices. but of the makes named Shibuya and Sure-Loc are the most widely use in recurve at top level.


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## straat (Jan 22, 2009)

Get a Shibuya. They are available with aluminium extension and, if you want to look cool or save 5(!) grams, carbon for a mere $70 extra.


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## elan (Nov 6, 2009)

yup, i agree with shibuya dual click its reasonabley priced and very sturdy... i got a cartel on my first bow and 3 months after using it the screw lock is severely misaligned and it rattles like #%*%...


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## andyman1970 (Apr 2, 2008)

Sturdyman - had similar questions when I made the jump from compound to recurve. This is a great forum for noobs. 

I have a Sure-Loc Supreme on my Compound and a Sure-Loc Contender-X on my recurve. While they appear very similar, the Supreme is MUCH heavier than the Contender. The Contender also comes with an apeture better suited for recurve. While I COULD use my Supreme on my recurve, I CANNOT do the reverse - in fact, the Sure-Loc packaging makes it very clear that you will void your warranty if you use a Contender (or I'm guessing a Quest as well) on a compound. 

I suspect these Sure Loc recurve sights are not designed to handle the shock and vibration of a compound.

Good luck!


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

sure loc-advantages

1) the scales are easier to read IMHO

2) a cavalier clicker fits better on the extension

3) quick change apertures (if you have an extra aperture holder)

4) American Made-good service record

5) I use these for field mainly because of 1 and 3

Shibuya Ultimate RC advantages

1) slightly lighter and some say the carbon absorbs vibration

2) you can lock the aperture down-if you use a sight tunnel like the kind Barry Weinperl sells, it won't rotate around like it can on the sureloc

3) you can take the entire aperture block off

4) it comes in several colors

Shibuya Ultima Standard (aluminum extension)

1) almost as light and much cheaper

2) no loc feature like the sureloc and the RC

3) only real disadvantage is you have to take the knob completely out to collapse the sight into the bow for storage.

Shibuya DUal Click

best sight for the money

nice colors available (RH mostly)

worm gear adjustment-not as convenient but solid


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## Jimmy Sweden (Oct 24, 2005)

well i id say the dual clicks the way to go if you shoot field cuse no one can sneak peak at your sight marks in a field round, and its prettier than the RC if you ask me that is, and get a cool color while your at it,


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I have a velcro strip over my marks


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

As much as I love my Sure-Loc's (and personally I wouldn't shoot any other sight) I am about to order a Shib. Dual Click standard for a 4-H shooter due to the value for the buck. I wish Sure-loc had something to genuinely compete with that sight. Hard to recommend anything else when the money is tight.

John.


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## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

I really like the W&W sight (WS600 I think is the model, dont have it to hand). Very reliable, easy adjustment and nice and easy to read the marks off when adjusting. I have a Shibuya on my other recurve which does the job as well, but I still prefer the W&W. As long as a sight doesnt rattle to bits when you shoot they're all about the same really, just down to how you like adjusting them etc.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> As much as I love my Sure-Loc's (and personally I wouldn't shoot any other sight) I am about to order a Shib. Dual Click standard for a 4-H shooter due to the value for the buck. I wish Sure-loc had something to genuinely compete with that sight. Hard to recommend anything else when the money is tight.
> 
> John.


agreed-I have bought at least a dozen of these over the years for the bows I lend to my students. Great sights.

The sureloc with the loc is decent but for the same money you can by the aluminum standard RC shibuya which is far better IMHO


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

My Sure-Loc is a great site. 

When I set up The INNO bow the major considerations for each component was weight reduction.
I chose the Shibuya Ultimate RC Extreme for the INNO rig. It too is a great site and gives a small weight reduction. This site carbon/carbon is so rigid that I had to glue the site block screws and use a Sure-Loc vibration dampener on the extension bar to keep the site block tight on the riser. That’s a bit over $400.00 in a RC site investment.

The next site I buy will be another Sure-Loc. In addition to a great site their customer service has been excellent.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

We've been die-hard Sure-Loc customers since just about forever. Never had a problem with them, in fact we have always been very happy with them.

I recently got myself a Shibuya Ultima 520 Carbon sight and this thing is amazing. Butter smooth and rock solid. Every adjustment is "two finger easy" and when you set it it stays set, without having to "lock" it in place.

Compared to a SureLoc Supreme, it's like driving a Volvo 760 sedan for 20 years and then getting behind the wheel of a brand new Mercedes.


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## chiamjl (Oct 14, 2008)

I pretty much like my Shibuya Ultima RC =D

Though initially I had problems with the mounting plate coming off easily, just had to screw that thing all the way in and shooing great!


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## arrow1347 (Mar 21, 2003)

*sight*

i've had two sureloc supremes for 40years , never had a problem. and there still going strong


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## roy NL (Jan 16, 2006)

I used to have a quest-x, now i use the ultima carbon and i think it beter then the shure-lock. mostly because of the weight but the adjustment of the little teflon strips on the sight to reduce vibrations after long use are realy great!


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

my only beef with the shibuya is the windage block costs $150 and i like to sometimes change apertures on site....the aperture holder for the sureloc is only $20...

if you don't really change apertures a lot it's an excellent and cool looking sight...especially the colors!!


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

For more for the Shibuya Ultima RC. After I lost my first one, I got myself the Cartel K-sight (AGAIN) but gave up on it after a while (AGAIN) and started eyeing the Win & Win sights. The one which looks like a Sure-Loc was what I had in mind but Lady luck winked at me in the end and I came across a Shibuya Ultima RC (in lefty too!) on this site and snapped it up. Super value because it was like close to half the price of a new one and impossible to tell the difference plus it came with all the paperwork, bag and tools.


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## Georgez (Sep 23, 2009)

One of the main differences between shibuya and sure-loc is that the sure-loc sights has holes on the extender that let the air pass throught them resulting in more steady shots in outdoor while the shibuya don't have. This is a very important factor from begginer to experience archers. Both sights are brilliant but personally I choose the contenter-x for that reason.


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## toptox (Jul 9, 2008)

When my Yamaha YS-V died after 20+ years I replaced it with an Angel and have been happy. From the physics perspective I always liked the idea of minimum adjustable weight hanging out the front. I do wish Angel had something better than their default pin - everyone I know immediately changes it for an aperture. My daughter has a Shibuya and has been happy. 

Above a certain manufacturing quality it's really a question of aesthetics and personal preference

Gary


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Maybe someone can explain something to me re: weight.

Why would an archer buy a sight because it is lighter in weight, and then turn around and put a top stabilizer weight on the bow? Or any stabilizer for that matter? 

I see the sight as just another stabilizer of sorts. I don't care if it's 11 oz. or 7 oz. personally.

I could understand if you were talking about a bow set up for a young archer or a small lady that needs a bow lighter in overall mass weight, but what am I missing?

John.


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## gig'em 99 (Feb 1, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Maybe someone can explain something to me re: weight.
> 
> Why would an archer buy a sight because it is lighter in weight, and then turn around and put a top stabilizer weight on the bow? Or any stabilizer for that matter?
> 
> ...


I doubt it's much more than personal preference John. 

But I will say this to add to your last comment...one of my students had a cartel junior site on his bow, and that site was heavy enough that when he first got it, it made his bow cant right. It took us 2 weeks of focus to get him accustomed to holding the bow straight. Now he's young and of small stature, but that sight was twice as heavy as my Shibuya.

Brian


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

my vote is for a shibuya dual click, i have the carbon ones and i really like them. havnt had any problems with it

Chris


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Georgez said:


> One of the main differences between shibuya and sure-loc is that *the sure-loc sights has holes on the extender that let the air pass throught them resulting in more steady shots in outdoor while the shibuya don't have.* This is a very important factor from begginer to experience archers. Both sights are brilliant but personally I choose the contenter-x for that reason.


Sorry, buddy. I'm not sold so I shall have to ask for scientific proof.

ps. Haven't measured but the Sure-Locs seem to have a larger surface area in their elevation adjustment area plus the aperture mounting block sure as hell looks bigger. 

pps. Manufacturers are always looking to make great (to the point of being absurd) claims to sell their products so if they claimed that 'signature fully relieved isogrid design makes the QUEST-X super strong and super light', shouldn't we just take it as that?


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## DariusXV (Feb 18, 2009)

John,

It helps balance the bow.

If you have too much weight beneath the fulcrum point of the hand (a fully tricked-out v-bar system or simply a lot of weight), the sight will wobble a lot more than if you balance the weight above and below.

Also, part of the reason people put more weight on top is because the bow will kick in the direction of the weights...it helps the bow react more "upwards" in reaction to the weight below the hand at the point of the shot breaking.

So, the old-school method of putting a mid-length above and below bar got a very nice bow reaction, but did little for cant.

All sorts of ways to approach this beast.

Honestly...a heavier sightbar is something a lot of people would benefit from whether they know it or not.


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## toptox (Jul 9, 2008)

John,

I'm guessing you are referring to my post

My most important statement was my last line:

"Above a certain manufacturing quality it's really a question of aesthetics and personal preference"

The torque a mass exerts on a system is the mass times the distance from the center of rotation. At long distances some people move the sight closer into the bow to achieve a usable sight mark. For the Angel style of sight the change in torque in doing this is smaller than for the type of sight where the vertical adjustment is out at the end of the extension. I was not referring to the overall mass of the sight - merely the change in torque (mass) as the sight is adjusted hence my phrase "minimum adjustable mass" not "minimum sight mass".

As my original post said "From the physics perspective I always liked" intended to mean the design from an aesthetic perspective. Given the overall weight of the bow and stabilizers I suspect no archer would be able to noticeably tell the difference in torque when adjusting either style of sight unless the sight was considerably heavier than most. 

Gary


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## scriv (Jan 31, 2008)

*Shibuya*

I've tried a bunch. I like the Shibuya Ultima RC Carbon. Won't buy anything else again. For all the reasons Jim C stated.


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## LoveMyHoyt (Nov 29, 2008)

I have used a Sure Loc Contender-X for several years and I love it. It is sturdy and easy to use. I'll admit, I didn't really consider any other because the SL's are made near where I grew up -- and I like to buy American when possible (though, I wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't good). 
Sure Loc used to have a beginner sight call the Prodigy (I still have it). It was a good sight and as I recall, it was less than $100 -- I wish they'd bring it back.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

John, sight weight can create a significant action to the bow dynamics upon release. Yes, the top weight can counter act some of the weight but it is in a different plane. When you put a stabilizer in the center of the bow whether it be top, middle or bottom you can get the bow to react in a specific plane (more like towards the target). When you put the sight on the side of the bow, you have just created a different direction to where the bow will start to react. 

We discovered this when Chek-It sights were introduced back in the 70’s. Before this sight virtually all sights were front or rear mounts. As a matter of fact John Williams was the first top archer who used three stabilizers to counter act this bow reaction. Most archers at that time used a top and bottom duel stabilizer system or a center rod system only. John used both systems all at one time, thus creating a new system for the archers to use. 

The Yamaha sight, with most of the weight virtually on the riser, helped curb some of the “off-plane” reaction was popular in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s. The Angel sight is very similar but much more solid than Yamaha’s. There was a sight made in either Scotland or Ireland that created this style before Yamaha but I cannot remember their name. Sorry about that! 

Anyway, the weight does play a big part to some archer including myself. The original Sure-Loc sight was very heavy and really built for a compound system. With the help of Jay Barrs and others, they developed a lighter model which has been very popular over the years for recurve archers. Shibuya sights are well known to be solid and light thus the popularity of these sights. The Sure-loc is heavy and solid, thus popular as well. There are many other sights out there that are probably similar or in between but it is important to find one that holds up through the shot process over time.


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## scriv (Jan 31, 2008)

*sight*

Rick, I think that AGF markets a sight like the one you are describing. dave


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

That's the company....Thanks Dave! I seem to forget more and more......


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

The Scottish or English sight was the Arten (I had one - the Olympian?). Accra made one (called the over/under?). Spigarelli makes a very light one, too, the Carbon 30. 
I'm using the Angel on my recurve, but an early long sight bar compound model. (I got tired of waiting for the Spiga) and I'm pretty happy with it, though I'm not in a very good position to evaluate the dynamics with my less-than-Olympian form.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

now I am really embarrassed! 

AGF I think is a swiss company. Arten was the company I was originally thinking about. I was not aware that Accra made an "over-under" sight. Anyway, thanks for the clarification!


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## toptox (Jul 9, 2008)

Rick,

The Arten Olympic sight had a double rail and a reputation for vibrating loose as I recall?

A picture can be found here: 

http://www.archeryhistory.com/sights/sightspics/olympicsite.jpg

Gary


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## DariusXV (Feb 18, 2009)

Here is an AGF sight:


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Why would an archer buy a sight because it is lighter in weight, and then turn around and put a top stabilizer weight on the bow? Or any stabilizer for that matter?


2 reasons.

(1) I get to put the weight where I want it, which isn't the sight.

(2) I don't think putting weight into the sight assembly is a good idea - you're trying to keep that in precision alignment. the mounts are not intended for it.


personally I'm waiting for the new Sebastian Flute carbon pro to come out. it's got all the advantages of the Shibuya ultima carbon but at 60% of the cost.


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## Dimemaker (Mar 31, 2010)

Sorry if I am reviving a dead thread.

I'm in the same boat as the first poster, Newer to Archery and taking my time looking for a new sight. (When funds become available)

Is there a huge difference in Features between the SHIBUYA DUAL CLICK CARBON and the SHIBUYA ULTIMA RC CARBON? They seem to be fairly similar in price. 

What would I be missing if I did not spend just the little more between these two?

Also I was told by the guy showing me around at the pro-shop that he preferred the Sure-locs for Outside Field shooting. Is that a true assessment?
I think he said the adjustments when going a different distances was easier.

I plan on probably shooting about 80% at an outside range vs about 20% inside. 

Thank you for the insight.


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

The Ultima is a lot easier to adjust and fractionally sturdier. Not that I'd go bashing them around to test it. Go the Ultima and never look back. 

Just..er.. take Georgez comment with a grain of salt.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Dimemaker, if weight's your chief concern, then the Dual Click Carbon's the one for you but as whiz-Oz had mentioned, the Ultima's easier to adjust. That means faster too. 

So if you want the Ultima's ease of adjustment but don't want to spend too much, then get the standard Ultima with the aluminium extension. Can't say this enough but they do come in a wide range of colours.


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