# Re-torque tune for different arrows?



## buckshot087 (Mar 18, 2010)

Once your rest has been torque tuned with a certain setup, will it always stay in the same place? Or will changing arrows, or point weight, arrow length, or draw length, etc. change the tune of the rest?


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## tostra1 (Jan 24, 2013)

You will more than likely not see a huge change in torque (lateral tuning), but you will see a difference in tuning (vertical tune). Commonly, you will see nock high or nock low. DL or DW adjustment could easily cause a torque change.

All of those factors can change where your rest needs to be positioned. Sometimes luck has it that two arrows will fly the same, but there is no science behind it. I think I speak for all target shooters when I say we would love to run 27's for indoor and then switch to x10's and tighten down the limbs without re-tuning. 

Walk-Back tuning is the best method to torque tune IMO. Paper is a nightmare and most people find that a perfect paper tear doesn't always mean a perfect group down range. 

Hope I helped.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

how far back does most of people have rest


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

redman said:


> how far back does most of people have rest


Each bow and shooter combination has their own sweet spot regarding optimal rest placement. The only way I know to dial it in is to torque tune the rest and move it around (forward and back) until your intentional torquing of the riser no longer produces POI changes.


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

tostra1 said:


> ....Walk-Back tuning is the best method to torque tune IMO. Paper is a nightmare and most people find that a perfect paper tear doesn't always mean a perfect group down range.


+1 There were several instances in recent years where I would work most of the morning on paper, only to find that my groups at 80-90 yards sucked....a quick walk back tune from 20-50, and again from 40-80 showed me in about 10-15 shots that my centershot was off. I corrected it reshot the walk back tune and was grouping as expected at all yardage with no left/right variations.

Oddly enough I went back and shot one more through paper before leaving for the day, it was the same tear I had when I got there and tried to "fix" 

As a result of this I only walk back tune. Its quick, easy, and a truer test of what your arrows/bow need to do to group at longer ranges.


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## Eman88 (Sep 3, 2013)

I believe the point of this thread was torque tuning which is moving the rest and sight to get a minimal horizontal impact. I would think it may need some fine tuning at 50 yards due to the diameter change. However I think each person with each set up has an ideal area within a quarter of an inch.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

buckshot087 said:


> Once your rest has been torque tuned with a certain setup, will it always stay in the same place? Or will changing arrows, or point weight, arrow length, or draw length, etc. change the tune of the rest?


Realize, torque tuning is finding the right combination of rest and sight relationship. So, no to the arrow part. No one has related of draw length change effecting torque tune.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

the most ideal position for the arrow contact point to the rest blade tip is above your bow grip/wrist swivel point....
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2198003
there are several brands offering rests with extensions, Im just getting my new Beiter with a long extension


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

buckshot087 said:


> Once your rest has been torque tuned with a certain setup, will it always stay in the same place? Or will changing arrows, or point weight, arrow length, or draw length, etc. change the tune of the rest?


Yes, changing arrows or configurations can and likely will change the torque tune. I've been through this. Torque tuning is about ideal "gapping" of the spread between the sight and the rest around the pivot point that is the grip/wrist.... but the arrow's reaction to the test is the defining element that makes a "sweet spot". 

If you don't believe me, change your point weight... or even change your vanes... or anything else that affects dynamic...or static spine....and watch your torque tune change.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

tmorelli said:


> Yes, changing arrows or configurations can and likely will change the torque tune. I've been through this. *Torque tuning is about ideal "gapping" of the spread between the sight and the rest around the pivot point that is the grip/wrist*.... but the arrow's reaction to the test is the defining element that makes a "sweet spot".
> 
> If you don't believe me, change your point weight... or even change your vanes... or anything else that affects dynamic...or static spine....and watch your torque tune change.


In Bold we all agree. I've shot a lot of different arrows through my UltraTec and not once moved the arrow rest - CX200, CX300, CXL 250s, Victory X Killers...No change of torque tune, but bow tune was effected. Example and doesn't hold true; Heavier arrow is said to impact farther left for right handed person. I tried this once, light to moderately heavy point weight of 112 grs spread. Point weight began with 80 grs and went up to 192 grs. No horizontal shift, only vertical adjustment made for weight to bring arrow back to the X ring. 20 yards and 30 yards indoors was distance tested.
Bow used 2011 Martin Shadowcat set to 56 pounds. Initial speed with 80 gr point was 281 fps. Muddy Outdoors HT3 400 spine arrow. I would have thought spine would show, but couldn't detect it....


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I'm not sure what to say other than you got lucky. One of my bows gives entirely different results when I change from a stiff combo to a soft one. I also know a pro....a very good pro....who uses point weight changes as part of his torque tuning process.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Any time I change arrows - points weight or bow weight I check torque tune its the last thing I check on a bow setup 
It is easy to do after you get the hang of it


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## Inc. (Jul 5, 2013)

While we are on the subject - can someone post a picture of inexpensive DYI torque indicator ?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Inc. said:


> While we are on the subject - can someone post a picture of inexpensive DYI torque indicator ?


I think padgett made one for himself- may want to PM him...

all you need is some type of arm that is L shaped...the base of the "L" needs to be in line with the sight pin with zero torque....as you apply l/r torque the base of the "L" will no longer be in line with the pin.


Rest position? the support for the arrow should be right at front node (slightly infront or behind is OK)....this gives the least amount of movement as pressure is applied to the back of the arrow...if you run short arrows, it might be difficult to do this.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

tmorelli said:


> I'm not sure what to say other than you got lucky. One of my bows gives entirely different results when I change from a stiff combo to a soft one. I also know a pro....a very good pro....who uses point weight changes as part of his torque tuning process.


I agree. Maybe I did get lucky. I switched over my UltraTec from the old CX300s to CX200s and to longer CXL 2-250s with no change to the rest other than height adjustment and came so close to winning my 2nd State Field Championship. My Shadowcat I noted the 56 pounds. The bow was quite tame though having Martin's Nitro cams.

And then both these bows have generous atas of 38 3/8 and 41 1/4" respectively.


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## buckshot087 (Mar 18, 2010)

I answered my own question today. Changed arrows and had to move my rest back almost an inch to get it tuned again. Makes sense since every arrow combo has different node positions.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

in regards to node...test each arrow. I was doing this the other day, just out of curiousity and found a couple arrows that had a distinct different node position. I haven't marked them, just noticed that they're different...

Though I haven't specifically tested for this, I do have a couple arrows that won't group with the others and I'm betting it's the same arrows that have that odd node location.


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## Van Handle (Jan 30, 2005)

Why dont we just eliminate the pesky torque and we dont have to worry about it at all. Put your rest where you want it set your sight where you want it and shoot the most accurate way you can* COMFORTABLY*


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

buckshot087 said:


> I answered my own question today. Changed arrows and had to move my rest back almost an inch to get it tuned again. Makes sense since every arrow combo has different node positions.


Torque tuning comes back to you. Here's a piece from Torque Tuning;
"Solution: If we can put the arrow rest in the right position we can find the “sweet spot” where the two actions(moving the sight one way and the arrow the opposite direction) cancel each other out. In layman's terms, *this means I can set the rest and sight position to a point that no matter how I torque the bow *left or right, as long as the sight is on target the arrow will hit in the middle where I am aiming."

I read the above as referring to you, not the arrow. Any arrow or arrow make up can effect tune or effect shot placement. Torque tuning is limiting or correcting the error of you... The bow has a pivot point, your wrist has a pivot point, moving the rest and sight is to work with both.

So far not a lot of people have related of how far they have their rest set back. Tim G. noted 2". Tim's and others totaled up shows a bit past 2" for a average. I have the rest on my Pearson set back 1 3/4" and have more error up and down than I do side to side. The rest on my 2000 Hoyt is set back 2 3/8" and has been one of the accurate bows I've ever owned. Torque tuning wasn't known of when I was "playing" with my UltraTec. There was no information. I more or less "shot in" my rest adjustment. Yep, shot it, moved the rest , shot it some more and continued until my rights and lefts were of the least amount. I did this using the standard NAP QuikTune 3000. 
I didn't measure as Tim notes in his write up. Again, there was no information. I noted the prong tips were right at the back of the berger hole. And then I didn't care for the plastic shim for the inset of the riser. I tried the Hoyt QuikTune 3000, only two place for the bolt to fit on this Hoyt rest, too far back and just right. Using the forward berger hole and forward hole of the rest the prongs were right at the back of the berger hole, just like I had the standard QuikTune 3000.

Van Handle noted, throw the rest on and shoot. Well, normally, at the shop for customers I use the mid point of the slotted mounting hole. Hey, it works for the vast majority of us....

Picture of my 2000 UltraTec. It's a little graphic, but this a factory overdraw riser and using a 4" vane to enhance just how far the rest is set back. See just above the knuckle of my thumb, the camo wore off. The camo on the grip is gone, period. Yep, shot this bow a bunch...


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I'm curiouis about the torque tuning in relation to the front node point.... 

Can you take a pic with the node marked on the shaft and the relation of it to where the arrow sits on the rest- at full draw. I'm betting what people are calling "torque tuning" is what we called node tuning many years ago.


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