# 14 vs.16 strand string



## bailebr3 (Sep 21, 2010)

shouldnt see any noticeably speed, if any. i only see a difference when going from say a 16 strand to a 8 strand. makes the bow quieter too.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

e - 



> I know speed is not a primary concern when shooting a trad bow,


Who the heck told you that?

A lot depends on the material. You might see a slightly bigger difference with B-50 and some of the FF type strings like D97. At 50#, I use 14 of B-50 and 16 of D97, not for strength or speed, but for optimal nock fit. If you nocks fit perfectly with a 16 strand string, odds are they will be too loose with a 14, unless you go to a thicker serving.

Viper1 out.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

e-manhunt said:


> I know speed is not a primary concern when shooting a trad bow, but i am getting a new string and thought I might as well ask: My current string is 16 strands, will i pick up any appreciable speed with 14 strands on the new string? I am drawing about 50lbs. so i don't believe the strength of the string is a factor. thanks


14 is faster, 16 is more forgiving in my case. You could probably even get away with less at 50 pounds, but I like 16 of fastflight for my bows and even then, I keep them well lubed with beeswax and they last a long while... so much so, that making a new string each year seems superfluous, but that was how I was taught.... change em out once a year no matter what... even if just fer practice.... 

Aloha.... :beer:


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## e-manhunt (Sep 14, 2004)

My arrow nocks fit pretty well on the 16, so that is a good reason to stick with that anyhow. I might just try something thinner just to fool around although usually I am not much of a tinkerer. thanks


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## rraming (Aug 5, 2006)

I don't think you would see much difference but I have never been a "skinny string" shooter. I shoot 14 and 16 strand D97. I have read several thread of guys using 8 strand and padding the loops but have never tried it and don't plan too. A lighter arrow makes it go faster too.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

"Optimal" nock fit?
Now that's funny, I don't care who ya are.
After all, nock fit doesn't really matter does it?


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

Bender said:


> "Optimal" nock fit?
> Now that's funny, I don't care who ya are.
> After all, nock fit doesn't really matter does it?


Nock fit does matter...and I want to know what halo serving you guys are using for a 16 strand d97 string. I prefer halo on my strings. I am using large groove pin nocks by Gold tip but they seem to fit the same as large groove Easton


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

Mr. Bender. Sorry you did not get the memo. SIZE DOES MATTER. Not sure how many people in this forum have ever spent anytime in a manufacturing, design or quality engineering role but the manufacturers take the time to test there equipment in order to make reasonable recommendations on string material and strand count. Probably best to use them especially before having an unpleasant warranty conversation with your bow manufacturer. I would ask to see qualifications the testing results from anyone recommending an 8 strand string for a 50# recurve bow.


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## jasboj (Feb 7, 2011)

I've shot a 12 strand on my 50 lb recurve quite a bit. Can't say I noticed much of a difference but I wanted to try it out. I build my own strings and I padded my loops to insure the safety of my bow. I do like shooting the skinny string though. I have several sizes of serving string and played with it to get the correct nock fitting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I revived this thread to question what serving is being used for 16 strand d 97. Thanks.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

stick -

I use 16 strands of D97 with #4 Nylon (0.021" diameter) and large groove G nocks (0.098" throat).
14 strands gets a small groove (0.088") G nock.

5 - 

Size only matters when taken in context. I do NOT want super loose nocks on any string to reduce the chance of a dry fire, and will typically go tighter on hunting bows than target bows. Here's a quote I've used in the past: Nock fit only matters if you go way too loose (loose like the arrow falling off the string) or way too tight (tight like needing both hands to engage the string). As long as the nock tension is consistent, you have a pretty good allowable spread before you reach too loose or too tight before any problems arise. 

Viper1 out.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

This is an old one!

Years ago Viper 1 was adamant that nock fit did not matter.

I myself knew about the importance of nock fit even back then. 

I was just being sarcastic. 

It would appear that over the years Viper 1 has backed off on his stance that nock fit does not matter.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

stick monkey said:


> Nock fit does matter...and I want to know what halo serving you guys are using for a 16 strand d97 string. I prefer halo on my strings. I am using large groove pin nocks by Gold tip but they seem to fit the same as large groove Easton


I am using 0.14 Halo for small groove gnocks and 0.19 for large groove gnocks with 16 strand D97. I use the same with 18 strand 8125 and 22 strand 8190. I keep all sizes in my kit and will serve about an inch and test the fit. I end serve with 0.14 Halo so I can test that using the end serving.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I'm trying to only buy one spool. I have forced myself to only shoot one bow. And I have chosen carbon express nano sst as my go to arrows. This should limit the different options with arrows and nock fit ending all the infinite combinations of setups.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Bender -

Actually, I haven't "backed off" one bit. I said the exact same thing now as I did previously. 
Some folks interpretations just changed a little. 
And frankly at the distances most trad types shoot and their typical groupings, nock fit, nor most other thing really come into play. 

Just reality.

Stick - 

I only use B-50 and D97, both with #4 Nylon. I only need 4 recipes for all the weights I currently use.

Viper1 out.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

stick monkey said:


> I'm trying to only buy one spool. I have forced myself to only shoot one bow. And I have chosen carbon express nano sst as my go to arrows. This should limit the different options with arrows and nock fit ending all the infinite combinations of setups.


My go to size is 0.14 since it works for both my end serving and center serving. You can adjust strand count to make it work. The problem is if you are using large groove nocks. I don't like the larger material as much for end servings because it separates when you make the tight bend. It still works. The last strings I ever had made for me used a larger diameter Halo for the end servings. You may need to bump up to 0.17 you strand count is low. What nocks are you using?


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

Gt pin nocks are what I am using now. They seem to fit the same as large groove g nocks.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I'm just concerned about center serving. Halo in particular. I use flemish strings. I've used endless loop in the past and had separation in end serving too. I prefer the gold tip pin nocks because they fit tighter on the pin. I was constantly having to index easton pin nocks.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

stick -



> I've used endless loop in the past and had separation in end serving too.


That's because the servings were poorly made. 

At 70M I've yet to have an issue with G nocks. 

Unless you're an elite level Olympic shooter, pin nocks aren't buying you anything. 
Even then, I'm not 100% sure. Just my opinion.

Viper1 out.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I've broken 37 pin nocks since January of this year if even a fourth of those resulted in broken shafts or robin hood then I'm money ahead.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I know this because I have to order the carbon express pins from Lancaster. My pro shop doesn't have them. So yes, pin nocks are helping me. And No...I am not at Olympic level but I'm pretty determined and sometimes the moon and stars align and everything goes exactly as it's supposed to.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Viper! What happened? I could have sworn you had me on "ignore" for YEARS! 

I recall what you said, "Nock fit doesn't matter unless its so tight that you have to practically hammer the arrow onto the string." I knew even back then that nock fit was rather more subtly nuanced than that. I also know that people take your word as gospel. So people will take your advice at face value. 

Sure most new shooters can't "shoot the difference." But if they come away believing advice like that, they will never learn that they CAN become good enough to shoot the difference. Their equipment will finally become a limiting factor, AND they will know no better to do things that CAN improve their equipment. No amount of money spent on equipment will solve the poor arrow flight that one gets from poor nock fit.

Those who stay stuck at those "trad type distances and groupings" will never learn that there is a whole other level of accuracy and distances that can be achieved. And this is true of so much more than just nock fit. 

Why offer "advice" that only serves to limit people rather than assist them in becoming better?

But hey, whatever. I really don't care to go off on some sort of argument. Since I set that World Record a couple years ago (it still stands today) I've tried to mellow, and to hold myself to a higher standard. I don't always succeed, but I am working on it.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Bender - 

Hopefully we've all mellowed a little with experience.
With most things, it gets down to what really matters and what's not worth worrying about. I'll still say that most of the things people worry about fall into the latter category. 

As (if) a shooter progresses, his experience should teach him what matters and what doesn't at that moment in time. Trying to dictate "how it has to be" might work with some people, but in most cases, it just gets in the way of setting up usable priorities. 

Nock fit is only one example. What I tried to express in the past was that a fairly wide range of nock tensions can and do work quite well on any given bow. The only caveat is that the fit should be fairly consistent (pretty easy is all your nocks come from the same bag) and that you're not at the too tight or too loose extremes. And frankly, in the 6" @ 60' group, even the nock to nock consistency can be questioned. 

Viper1 out.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Viper, if I ever get you and Bender in the same place, I buy the first round or three.

I think you guy will get along great.

Paul is an awesome story teller, and funny, when you're not the one he's mocking


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

stick monkey said:


> I'm just concerned about center serving. Halo in particular. I use flemish strings. I've used endless loop in the past and had separation in end serving too. I prefer the gold tip pin nocks because they fit tighter on the pin. I was constantly having to index easton pin nocks.


Three contributors I have seen for separation, and they are not all independent of each other.

1) Using serving material with a diameter that is too large
2) Folding the serving when you store the string
3) Poorly made end serving.

I have had good luck with 0.14 Halo. I don't get separation. I make my own strings, not hundreds like some guys, but more than you expect for the time I have been doing it. I shoot a lot of bows that require string experimentation, and I do a lot of bow testing. I knocked three out last weekend reconfiguring some test bows.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

stick monkey said:


> I've broken 37 pin nocks since January of this year if even a fourth of those resulted in broken shafts or robin hood then I'm money ahead.


What distances are you shooting? I know a lot of top scoring indoor shooters that have not broken 37 pin nocks in that period of time. If you are shooting short, then you can do it. The best remedy for that is shooting multi-spot targets. 

I was using pin nocks on some arrows, but because one vendor I bought ACE's from came with them pre-installed. I finally removed them so that I could go to Beiter press in nocks. I was having trouble with arrows falling off my string with the small pin nocks. It would take very little pressure on the back to pop them off. The pressure was coming from contact with my face when I put my eyebrow on the string.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

Why is everyone concerned with my pin nocks. They work for me. Saving arrows and obviously plenty accurate for me. I like the fact that most pin nocks have a short ear...or not as deep of throat. I've never had one fall off. I am very concerned with nock fit and if it is right then they should not fall off.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

stick -

If you like them, that's fine.
We're just pointing out, they ain't the only game in town, and in a lot of cases, not the best game in town.

Bottom line, it's one of those things that just doesn't matter. 
Use what you like.

Viper1 out.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

You flatter me Barney Slayer.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

stick monkey said:


> Why is everyone concerned with my pin nocks. They work for me. Saving arrows and obviously plenty accurate for me. I like the fact that most pin nocks have a short ear...or not as deep of throat. I've never had one fall off. I am very concerned with nock fit and if it is right then they should not fall off.


My arrows started falling off when I adopted the traditional style of placing the string on my eyebrow, instead of shooting with my head up, as my target shooting upbringing originally taught me to do. The pin nock throats are so shallow that a tiny amount of pressure on the back can pop them off, even with a good nock fit. I never had a problem with pin nocks when I shot with my head up. Other than that, I have no problem with pin nocks. I have saved a lot of arrows shooting 20 yards with pin nocks. And then, surprisingly, I blew up an expensive ACE without a pin nock when I had a Robin Hood at 90 meters during a FITA shoot. A Robin Hood at that distance is very low probability, but it can happen.


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