# nuts and bolts DVD/reputation



## deadduck357 (Dec 29, 2013)

Don't throw no archer under a bus. He knows his sht. I just have a short attention span.


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## RangerZ520 (Jun 25, 2014)

Everyone can make up their own mind about him. I have my negative view based on how he treated me.


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## 340pd (Aug 18, 2013)

Jesus people. The chance to have all this info in one place for ready reference for the cost of a box of. 45 Cal. ammo? 
Nice work Alan. I appreciate your efforts and thank you very much.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

A lot of whiney folks out there...


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## bigbadwoolfe (Jan 1, 2013)

340pd said:


> Jesus people. The chance to have all this info in one place for ready reference for the cost of a box of. 45 Cal. ammo?
> Nice work Alan. I appreciate your efforts and thank you very much.


$25 can feed a child for a month in Africa.


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## mt_elkhunter (Feb 28, 2010)

Ill take the 45 ammo, I know how to search on AT


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## killerloop (Mar 16, 2008)

neck shot said:


> Nuts and bolts has helped us out numerous times, thousands if not millions of archers have used his advice and he has personally made me a better shooter
> 
> Thank you nuts and bolts
> 
> ...


Wait, what? You've seen the video??

Disappointed in????


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## spedelbrock (Jun 18, 2013)

mt_elkhunter said:


> Ill take the 45 ammo, I know how to search on AT


 Right lol


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## ColoradoNick (Oct 15, 2014)

neck shot said:


> Nuts and bolts has helped us out numerous times, thousands if not millions of archers have used his advice and he has personally made me a better shooter
> 
> Thank you nuts and bolts
> 
> ...


 I don't have a problem with the quality of the video per se. I have an issue with the fact that he lied. He said he was spending thousands of dollars on professional high quality video equipment. Unless he used it on another video we don't know about... He flat out lied. Also the fact that he hasn't chimed in to defend himself makes him look guilty.


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## kill-em123 (Nov 17, 2014)

streetdoctor said:


> I don't have a problem with the quality of the video per se. I have an issue with the fact that he lied. He said he was spending thousands of dollars on professional high quality video equipment. Unless he used it on another video we don't know about... He flat out lied. Also the fact that he hasn't chimed in to defend himself makes him look guilty.


and the high quality lighting equipment he was referring to, which unless it is energy saving fluorescent bulbs, I see no need for it.


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## juspassinthru (Oct 8, 2006)

I got sail boat fuel for sale. $31 TYD. Paypal.....Keep drinking the Kool Aid boys


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## ChuckA84 (Mar 19, 2012)

streetdoctor said:


> I don't have a problem with the quality of the video per se. I have an issue with the fact that he lied. He said he was spending thousands of dollars on professional high quality video equipment. Unless he used it on another video we don't know about... He flat out lied. Also the fact that he hasn't chimed in to defend himself makes him look guilty.


What? How dare you spread truth on here...lol 

I mean come on...like the op said, because he helped so many people in the past, shouldnt we just overlook how he deceived and swindled so many out of their money? Lol


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

bigbadwoolfe said:


> $25 can feed a child for a month in Africa.


 Id rather feed my 300 win.


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## L.I.Archer (Sep 6, 2010)

P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


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## Tuningfreak (Apr 6, 2004)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


Yup. I do not know what his credentials are, but I dont buy into a lot of what he preaches. So much of what he spews has been disproven by my own experience and what I have witnessed in archers that have won at every level of competition. 
For instance, how many archers do you see that violate his rules of form that are consistently winning or placing in National and International events?


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Remember when he first came around. Got famous for drawing green lines on peoples form. From that people jumped to the conclusion that he was somehow a guru with 100 years of knowledge, people ask him questions about every aspect of archery, he gives vague answers. Word spreads he a guru before you know it everyone takes his word for law. Called him sense', said they were his pupils. Find some of his DYI equipment setups informing, nothing else he has to say that hasn't been said already by thousands of people on this site. Don't know why people decided to pay for whats spread around all over this site already. Seems like a nice guy, got in over his head when started believing his own hype.


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## Dale_B1 (Jan 31, 2004)

Picture over load on every post. Myself I don't need a DVD of the same o' same o'. Other thing not every pro has the "perfect" form or draw length, half do not, they do what works for them alone.
All I have to say on this subject.


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## Dhninja (Aug 12, 2014)

That dude should be BANNED from selling on this site ! What a garbage video !! Youtube has better **** then this guy has !! I don't even know how to work a computer but I bet with my go pro I could make a better looking video !! Hmm maybe that's a idea !! Anyone want to buy a video of me explaining how to screw people out of 31 dollars !!


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## Kill'em N Grill'em (Sep 12, 2013)

:moviecorn


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


LOL.. This is spot on.. Somehow a handful of AT'ers made him the GURU.. Dont be afraid to question him.. I have.. Funny thing is.. He ignores me.. Counts on his chronies to defend him... The dude is so far out in left filed on so many archery things its mind boggeling.. but yet there are a handful of peeps here that suck it right up.. Carry on boys.. he just made a bunch of money off you guys... Cant blame him for that.... Much better business guy than archery GURU.. The guy has no credentials.. never has.. His best posts are those in where he tries to address engineering or design theories... Ive spit diet coke all over my keyboard more than once reading some of his posts and explanations...


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

PayPal gift payments aren't looking smart for some right now....


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## ATLurker (Jan 2, 2011)

Just put mine in the classifieds, even though it hasn't actually arrived yet. Should be here soon though. $20 TYD, unopened.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2409845&p=1072224638#post1072224638


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## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

I am glad I realized how bs his some of his posts are. I always skipped over a thread as soon as he posted in it, because it then made everyone else wrong.
You would never get a simple change your grip to this or open your stance a little. Instead get 50 pictures and then go draw some lines on it and then go offline in pm,s and charge you


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

ATLurker said:


> Just put mine in the classifieds, even though it hasn't actually arrived yet. Should be here soon though. $20 TYD, unopened.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2409845&p=1072224638#post1072224638


Just ask for a refund. Lot of guys said he refunded them already when asked.


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## tmv (Mar 5, 2014)

so will the "hows my form" post be much shorter now?


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## Tuningfreak (Apr 6, 2004)

This is enlightening... I challenged him several times on form and equipment issues. Usually he ignored me. I almost felt quilty because I never saw anybody else call him out. Apparently, his huge following were the people that needed HIM the least.


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## ATLurker (Jan 2, 2011)

Tradbow Guy said:


> Just ask for a refund. Lot of guys said he refunded them already when asked.


Nah, not about the $ for me as-in I feel cheated and want my money back. I've been shooting and working on my own bows for many years. Bought the N&B set out of interest and maybe picking up a tip here or there I wasn't aware of. I can tell now though the DVD will be a waste of my time. Maybe my copy will help someone new to the game though. I don't feel cheated, just disappointed.


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## fordnut (Dec 16, 2005)

We need to order some cheese with all this whine. 
Thanks Alan for all ur work


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

This thread will be closed by a MOD soon just like the last one. . N&B has used this sight to market a product and services for $$$$. Just look at the ladybowhunter thread it was nothing more than an infomercial. I don't see anything wrong with folks discussing issues they may have had its too bad that some of the information came out after the fact.


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## JHENS87 (Nov 7, 2009)

Nothing wrong with discussing it. but flat out bashing Alan isn't going to keep threads open. Keep it civil


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

rohpenguins said:


> This thread will be closed by a MOD soon just like the last one. . N&B has used this sight to market a product and services for $$$$. Just look at the ladybowhunter thread it was nothing more than an infomercial. I don't see anything wrong with folks discussing issues they may have had its too bad that some of the information came out after the fact.


To be fair I believe he is an AT sponsor which allows him to market his product on this site. I think a lot of people held in their opinions because they knew he was well liked here and feared being ridiculed.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

How is my form?


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## TAIL_CHASER (Dec 23, 2014)

Part 2. Coming soon


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Id say dont bash cause they will lock down the thread (has already been done ). So much for archers informing other archers on this situation.


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## Pruno (Sep 4, 2011)

Wow never seen this kind of negativity towards N&B guess I never looked deep enough. I got into 3d about four years ago have learned a lot from this site still trying to learn so I ordered this DVD doesn't sound like it worth it. I am wanting to learn more about tuning for you guys that have seen the video is there good info on this? Not worried about my form I tried some of N&B suggestions on here didn't work for me went back to what I was use to.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

iceman14 said:


> How is my form?


I have highlighted the errors in your form in green, and shown the appropriate corrections on the figure to the right that correspond to the new, correct method of archery.


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

My buddy pm'd him about his form,and l had called bs on his replies


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

iceman14 said:


> How is my form?


First
Tear down your bow to all its pieces,
Put it in the kitchen sink,
Rinse
Lather
Repeat

NOW

Pour it all on the Kitchen table...

BUT BUT BUT... Its ok we r not there yet

Stand on your head,
Spit quarters,
Shoot a group...

you get the picture...lol


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.





tsilvers said:


> LOL.. This is spot on.. Somehow a handful of AT'ers made him the GURU.. Dont be afraid to question him.. I have.. Funny thing is.. He ignores me.. Counts on his chronies to defend him... The dude is so far out in left filed on so many archery things its mind boggeling.. but yet there are a handful of peeps here that suck it right up.. Carry on boys.. he just made a bunch of money off you guys... Cant blame him for that.... Much better business guy than archery GURU.. The guy has no credentials.. never has.. His best posts are those in where he tries to address engineering or design theories... Ive spit diet coke all over my keyboard more than once reading some of his posts and explanations...


Nailed it.

Now,


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

Tradbow Guy said:


> I have highlighted the errors in your form in green, and shown the appropriate corrections on the figure to the right that correspond to the new, correct method of archery.


Now that was funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nimh (Nov 26, 2011)

Wait a minute!!! I thought this dvd was produced by alan jackson and came with magic pixie dust to shake on my bow to keep it in perfect tune so i will never have to touch it again!! I was gonna win vegas after watching this video!!! My dreams are destroyed!!!


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

parkerbows said:


> I am glad I realized how bs his some of his posts are. I always skipped over a thread as soon as he posted in it, because it then made everyone else wrong.
> You would never get a simple change your grip to this or open your stance a little. Instead get 50 pictures and then go draw some lines on it and then go offline in pm,s and charge you


Maybe he never gave a simple answer, because most of the people asking about their form for have a lot more wrong than just
a simple change of grip or open your stance. I also don't see anything wrong with drawing the lines to show people how they
can improve their form. It's a lot easier than trying to type it all out. He is basically teaching the classic " T " form, which is a pretty
good place to start.


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## WCork (Apr 22, 2010)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


I know that I fell into the crowd of taking his word as gospel until about the past year. While his posts never really made a whole lot of sense...he had such a following that it was just given that he was the ultimate archery mind. While I do think that some of his information was helpful when I was a newer archer, I finally saw the light here in the last year. Aside from the $25 that may have been wasted by some, it also sucks that his posts have probably prevented some of the better bow tuners from weighing in on certain topics.


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## bowfisher (Jan 21, 2003)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


:thumbs_up


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## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

Regardless of my disappointment with the DVDs, at least Alan has the decency to honor my feelings.

I was just notified by Paypal that my request for a refund has been granted.


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## inactiveuser23 (Dec 8, 2014)

Tradbow Guy said:


> I have highlighted the errors in your form in green, and shown the appropriate corrections on the figure to the right that correspond to the new, correct method of archery.


I'm crying, lmao!


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## bowfisher (Jan 21, 2003)

tsilvers said:


> LOL.. This is spot on.. Somehow a handful of AT'ers made him the GURU.. Dont be afraid to question him.. I have.. Funny thing is.. He ignores me.. Counts on his chronies to defend him... The dude is so far out in left filed on so many archery things its mind boggeling.. but yet there are a handful of peeps here that suck it right up.. Carry on boys.. he just made a bunch of money off you guys... Cant blame him for that.... Much better business guy than archery GURU.. The guy has no credentials.. never has.. His best posts are those in where he tries to address engineering or design theories... Ive spit diet coke all over my keyboard more than once reading some of his posts and explanations...



:thumbs_up


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## norsemen (Feb 22, 2011)

streetdoctor said:


> I don't have a problem with the quality of the video per se. I have an issue with the fact that he lied. He said he was spending thousands of dollars on professional high quality video equipment. Unless he used it on another video we don't know about... He flat out lied. Also the fact that he hasn't chimed in to defend himself makes him look guilty.


Hate to bad mouth a guy that has helped so many, but, it's kinda looking like a scam. He builds up a rep as a guru here on AT. He tells everyone he's making this hi-tech tuning video. He takes a year to make this video, all the while, hyping it for a year and taking pre-orders. Everyone is pumped. Video is released for delivery. Thousands of payments made. Video is low quality and Nuts $ Bolts is gone. Well, he's either gone, or he just doesn't know how to react to the negative criticism. We'll know for sure if he refuses refund to unsatisfied customers.


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## inactiveuser23 (Dec 8, 2014)

Is N&B the new KS?

TWWAAANNNAAGGGG

SAAAAAAGGGGG

LMAO, the only thing sagging is his pant pockets is sagging with everyone's money


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## bowfisher (Jan 21, 2003)

iceman14 said:


> How is my form?


If you shortened your draw another 1'' he'd still say it was too long.


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## TexasCanesFan (Jun 23, 2005)

Do the quick math on what he is going to make off the members here on AT. I have said it is all self promotion for a long time.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I feel like I have to buy one now.. I have to see this for myself. Kind of like a bug feels like they have to check out the light inside a bug zapper. It's going to hurt, but sometimes you just have to know how it turns out.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

Did anyone follow the lady bow hunter thread for the last month? I simply said it was starting to sound like and infomercial and was immediately told to change the channel. I really would like for N&B to weigh-in and post.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

JawsDad said:


> I feel like I have to buy one now.. I have to see this for myself. Kind of like a bug feels like they have to check out the light inside a bug zapper. It's going to hurt, but sometimes you just have to know how it turns out.


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2409845


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I don't see how he lied. He said exactly what this was going to be in one of the threads...basically, he said he was reading the PDF and expanding on it. Seems that is exactly what he did....regardless of "over selling".

Don't get upset because you believe the marketing hype and didn't get what you hoped for. 



JHENS87 said:


> Nothing wrong with discussing it. but flat out bashing Alan isn't going to keep threads open. Keep it civil


probably better off just closing the thread.



iceman14 said:


> How is my form?


are you consistent/like your scores? If so, who cares. But since you asked, sarcastically or not, other than your draw arm not being level and too maybe much hand and on the grip---looks good.


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

bowfisher said:


> If you shortened your draw another 1'' he'd still say it was too long.


Exactly what he said to my friend, said most people are 2-3 in. to long


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## norsemen (Feb 22, 2011)

Tradbow Guy said:


> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2409845


Too funny


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## bigbadwoolfe (Jan 1, 2013)

highwaynorth said:


> Maybe he never gave a simple answer, because most of the people asking about their form for have a lot more wrong than just
> a simple change of grip or open your stance. I also don't see anything wrong with drawing the lines to show people how they
> can improve their form. It's a lot easier than trying to type it all out. He is basically teaching the classic " T " form, which is a pretty
> good place to start.


Sure, but not everyone is at the start, and everyone is treated as if they were. If I shoot 580 / 600 (18m Indoor FITA), or 58x NFAA on a regular basis, when I ask for advice I likely need a minor adjustment somewhere or help with the mental game... Likely something as major as my stance or my draw length being off by 2" isn't the issue...


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## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

Regardless of my disappointment with the DVDs, at least Alan has the decency to honor my feelings.

I was just notified by Paypal that my request for a refund has been granted.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

I honestly don't feel he intended to deceive anyone.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

rohpenguins said:


> Did anyone follow the lady bow hunter thread for the last month? I simply said it was starting to sound like and infomercial and was immediately told to change the channel. I really would like for N&B to weigh-in and post.


Yes, after a while he does sound like an infomercial. Ladybowhunter did say her shooting and scores improved with
the little form tweaking and the shooting exercises though. People complain about how he posts the same pictures
over and over again,well what do you expect when people ask the same question "hows my form" over and over again?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what to think or how to respond to the reaction of people on here. Talk about a rapid
fall from grace.


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## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

rohpenguins said:


> I honestly don't feel he intended to deceive anyone.


I don't think so either.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

bigbadwoolfe said:


> Sure, but not everyone is at the start, and everyone is treated as if they were. If I shoot 580 / 600 (18m Indoor FITA), or 58x NFAA on a regular basis, when I ask for advice I likely need a minor adjustment somewhere or help with the mental game... Likely something as major as my stance or my draw length being off by 2" isn't the issue...


Some of the people asking for help are not always newbies, they have just been doing it wrong for a long time. So yes you
have to scrap what they have been doing and start over. Yes, you might just need a minor tweak to your form, but this isn't the case with the ones asking for help in hows my form threads on here. Not that I have seen anyway.


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## Mauritian (Sep 30, 2014)

If the info on the DVD is helpful to some, that is what's important.
Oh, last year i ordered the movie "Transcendence". You guys think i'll get a refund for that POS?


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## jakep567 (Feb 19, 2014)

I downloaded a 159 page pdf file online of nuts and bolts info. Pretty good stuff and free


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## TexasCanesFan (Jun 23, 2005)

GrooGrux said:


> Is N&B the new KS?
> 
> TWWAAANNNAAGGGG
> 
> ...


Funny enough, I texted a buddy about this exact same comparison. If KS did the exact same thing their would be a AT management backed lynch mod running 5 - 30 page long threads that would not get locked. 

Shame to see the negative review thread locked. That's not protecting the members of AT.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

TexasCanesFan said:


> Funny enough, I texted a buddy about this exact same comparison. If KS did the exact same thing their would be a AT management backed lynch mod running 5 - 30 page long threads that would not get locked.
> 
> Shame to see the negative review thread locked. That's not protecting the members of AT.


It is protecting the sponsor. As usual.


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## enewman (Jun 5, 2007)

iceman14 said:


> How is my form?


Never mind your form. That is a heck of a catilina goat on the wall


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

Could always play Frisbee golf with it


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Is NB's actually OB in disguise? Did he have a two phase operation running here perhaps???


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Guys wait till you get your DVD before you say anything. Alan is a smart guy. He probably explained everything how he sees it. I'm 100% sure he did not try to scam anyone and just make easy money.


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## DeanH (Feb 2, 2013)

like everything else here, use a filter and never take anything as the full truth 

I really doubt he did this with bad intentions, just maybe expectations vs result doesnt match up.

And as it seems, he refunds when people ask for it. 

i kinda stopped paying ny attention after his no-cam breakdown of the tech in that. 

Now if anyone ever really thought he was the end-all-be-all archery master, i gotta say reality check- nobody is.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Pysiek said:


> Guys wait till you get your DVD before you say anything. Alan is a smart guy. He probably explained everything how he sees it. I'm 100% sure he did not try to scam anyone and just make easy money.


Pysiek... Dont know you.. dont know the depth of your knowledge regarding archery in general.. But.. for those of us who been around sometime... This guy was either purposely deceiving those around him or truely ignorant when it came to all aspects of archery... He definently was smart enough to go after the newbies on here however.. and I can understand someone showing up here looking for information and jumping on board as they knew no better... IMO... this place is much better with out all the misinformation and BS he attempted to sell here..


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## frd567 (Jan 30, 2012)

That's what I am doing.
With that said I aaaaaaaaaaASUMED, (we all know what that does) it would be a Griv's Thing A Week quality video.
Oh well I will see what I can glean from it. 




Pysiek said:


> Guys wait till you get your DVD before you say anything. Alan is a smart guy. He probably explained everything how he sees it. I'm 100% sure he did not try to scam anyone and just make easy money.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

1 question.....

Was randy ulmer featured in the video?


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## Nomad022 (Jun 9, 2012)

tsilvers said:


> LOL.. This is spot on.. Somehow a handful of AT'ers made him the GURU.. Dont be afraid to question him.. I have.. Funny thing is.. He ignores me.. Counts on his chronies to defend him... The dude is so far out in left filed on so many archery things its mind boggeling.. but yet there are a handful of peeps here that suck it right up.. Carry on boys.. he just made a bunch of money off you guys... Cant blame him for that.... Much better business guy than archery GURU.. The guy has no credentials.. never has.. His best posts are those in where he tries to address engineering or design theories... *Ive spit diet coke all over my keyboard more than once reading some of his posts and explanations...*


Diet Coke.....!? Don't think I can trust someone that doesn't drink Espresso :secret::set1_thinking::drama:


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## fireman127 (Mar 22, 2008)

This has certainly taken some heat away from the Patriots with deflategate


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

tsilvers said:


> Pysiek... Dont know you.. dont know the depth of your knowledge regarding archery in general.. But.. for those of us who been around sometime... This guy was either purposely deceiving those around him or truely ignorant when it came to all aspects of archery... He definently was smart enough to go after the newbies on here however.. and I can understand someone showing up here looking for information and jumping on board as they knew no better... IMO... this place is much better with out all the misinformation and BS he attempted to sell here..


I have to say I read a lot of his posts and never get a feeling like he is a ignorant or bad person.


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## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

Wow...


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## jgss2 (Dec 14, 2004)

fireman127 said:


> This has certainly taken some heat away from the Patriots with deflategate


Now That's funny!!


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

So by the sounds of it, there was no "thousands of dollars" dumped into cameras and lighting like he claimed? I also thought he has been extremely over the top with images, over and over and over again. A lot of the time I can't figure out what he's trying to say, either. It's like he's speaking in code. If he verbally speaks like he types...I'd never be able to make it through the DVD.


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

frd567 said:


> That's what I am doing.
> With that said I aaaaaaaaaaASUMED, (we all know what that does) it would be a Griv's Thing A Week quality video.
> Oh well I will see what I can glean from it.


Where can we find the Grivs videos?


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

i can honestly say that he helped me. and really that's a lot of information to put into a video. if it were a how to actual video do you have any idea how long it would be?? try to get all that information in one album in a high quality how to video and pay 31 dollars tyd and then come back and act like a bunch of teenagers there may be a lot of disappointed people but give the man credit for at least giving it a go. expressing disappointment is cool and all but accusing the man of being a thief is childish.

and whoever said that they could not understand how he breaks stuff down, how? he breaks it down the way he does so that even a child could understand, or at least it seems to me that it is broken down into individual aspects so as to provide a solid base to work from.

believe what you want, but Alan really did help me. maybe people expect too much from other people, maybe his dvd was a bit inflated, but being rude and mocking him is certainly not the answer. if you are unsatisfied ask for a refund.

Thanks Alan for helping me


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## WCork (Apr 22, 2010)

IA Monsterbuck said:


> Where can we find the Grivs videos?


Go to youtube and search for "last chance archery thing a week"

Awesome stuff by GRIV!


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

neck shot said:


> Nuts and bolts has helped us out numerous times, thousands if not millions of archers have used his advice and he has personally made me a better shooter
> 
> Thank you nuts and bolts
> 
> ...


Millions????

Do you really think that AT's reach includes MILLIONS of people? I doubt there are even millions of people in the world that interested in archery to seek form/tuning advice, let alone this one website.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings (Nov 26, 2014)

i dont know Alan and i dont know if he is THE MASTER OF ARCHERY, but the information i gathered from him was very helpful so my opinion is only from my own experience with him.


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## jgss2 (Dec 14, 2004)

IA Monsterbuck said:


> Where can we find the Grivs videos?


You tube. Do a google search for Griv "Thing a week"


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

WCork said:


> Go to youtube and search for "last chance archery thing a week"
> 
> Awesome stuff by GRIV!


Thanks. Subscribed, I'll be checking those out this weekend.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Pysiek said:


> I have to say I read a lot of his posts and never get a feeling like he is a ignorant or bad person.


Just the opposite for me.. was based on his incoherent posts and random engineering babble from time to time that made absolutely no sense... and his refusal to answer when challenged on anything... Take it for what its worth...


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

IA Monsterbuck said:


> Where can we find the Grivs videos?


They have them on the last chance archery website.


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

As far as Alan goes and his video, I am assuming that those who ordered it are familiar with him and his posts on here so they had some idea of his methods and way of communicating. While I can understand that some feel misled because of all the hype he did on his thread about production quality I am not entirely sure it was an attempt to cheat anybody out of their money. Alan is an odd duck and he may indeed think he is producing the best informational dvd he can. The fact that he appears to be refunding money to those not satisfied is a great step in proving that point.

As long as he refunds the money to all those that ask for a refund I don't see a reason to bash him. If on the other hand he doesn't give a full refund to those who ask then I think the AT police should go after him in full force.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I'm not sure where I read it, but Alan said that the DVD would simply be his tuning guide on DVD. I was hoping for some video demonstrations and maybe some attractive young ladies, but apparently it is exactly what he said it would be.

I haven't seen it yet, but when I get it, I'll view it the same way I do all posts, objectively and without feelings about the individual behind the post or the DVD. I've gotten great information from some people I don't like much and gotten worthless information from people I do like.

Each of us is at a different stage in our journey as an archer. Information we hear or read today might not be helpful, but when we have progressed, it suddenly makes sense. 

Don't let your personal feelings about Alan make you prejudge the dvd. View it on it's own merits. Maybe you will learn something, maybe you won't. I do believe it was presented by Alan with the best intentions. Maybe I'll feel differently when I see it, we'll see.

JMHO,
Allen


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

So what did I miss here? :lol: Oh well. I've always thought Bolts was a little Nuts anyway. His tuning procedures? :mg:


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## jgss2 (Dec 14, 2004)

IA Monsterbuck said:


> Thanks. Subscribed, I'll be checking those out this weekend.


His TAW videos are some of the most informative I've seen. He doesn't overcomplicate things!


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

aread said:


> I'm not sure where I read it, but Alan said that the DVD would simply be his tuning guide on DVD. I was hoping for some video demonstrations and maybe some attractive young ladies, but apparently it is exactly what he said it would be.
> 
> I haven't seen it yet, but when I get it, I'll view it the same way I do all posts, objectively and without feelings about the individual behind the post or the DVD. I've gotten great information from some people I don't like much and gotten worthless information from people I do like.
> 
> ...


You don't need to see it. Just use your search function, type in what you want to know and what you read about here is
what you will read on the DVD.


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## fire2201 (Apr 29, 2009)

I went to a seminar of his in Iowa he is very knowledgeable person. And really you guys are worried about spending $30


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## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

I just pissed away $30 on a scratch off.

I have wasted a lot more money on stuff...hell I have been to the melting pot for dinner before.


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## rustown (Dec 13, 2008)

flinginairos said:


> I don't think so either.


Agreed. I'm just disappointed that, in anticipation of DVD (and my lofty EXPECTATIONS), I purchased a bow press, vise, and tuning equipment. I expected the DVD to educate me on how to set up and work on my bows. Now I must explore other options. Although I bought both the DVD and a digital copy, I'm not going to request a refund. I expected more, but don't feel good about projecting my expectations him. It is my fault for not being more cautious. Just ordered the DVD set from Lancaster. Hoping that's my answer.


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## Joe P. (Jan 13, 2004)

This is the best thread on AT right now [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]


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## Bbd16 (Feb 13, 2013)

rustown said:


> Agreed. I'm just disappointed that, in anticipation of DVD (and my lofty EXPECTATIONS), I purchased a bow press, vise, and tuning equipment. I expected the DVD to educate me on how to set up and work on my bows. Now I must explore other options. Although I bought both the DVD and a digital copy, I'm not going to request a refund. I expected more, but don't feel good about projecting my expectations him. It is my fault for not being more cautious. Just ordered the DVD set from Lancaster. Hoping that's my answer.


U really shouldnt need a dvd to teach u these things with some solid effort it should be a breeze. There all over this website from several guys and they are all willing to explain there findings


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## frd567 (Jan 30, 2012)

First off I want to state that I am not a worshiper nor a basher of Nuts and Bolts.
But to his credit, in his PFD the way he explains how to make slight adjustments to your grip hand ie pitch, roll and yaw is the absolute best way I have ever seen or heard it explained.
It just sank in to my simple mind.
As far as using the same photos and info. over and over.
I came to the assumption (there I go aaaaaaAssuming again) that the method to that madness is the same that all coaches stress in all sports even at the professional level.
THE BASICS, THE BASICS, THE BASICS over and over again.
As to the way he gets his points across with some of the analogeze, I will be polite and say they are unique. But hey variety is the spice of life.
Now to the validity of his technical advice, that's past my pay grade.
Just some random thoughts from a wondering mind.


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## BadgerT (Mar 23, 2011)

rustown said:


> Agreed. I'm just disappointed that, in anticipation of DVD (and my lofty EXPECTATIONS), I purchased a bow press, vise, and tuning equipment. I expected the DVD to educate me on how to set up and work on my bows. Now I must explore other options. Although I bought both the DVD and a digital copy, I'm not going to request a refund. I expected more, but don't feel good about projecting my expectations him. It is my fault for not being more cautious. Just ordered the DVD set from Lancaster. Hoping that's my answer.


If the Lancaster video you ordered is "The self reliant bowhunter" you won't be disappointed.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


Wow so give us your credentials. What has made you such a great "bow tuner"? Just because soo many "super tuners" on AT don't know anything about true tuning they rather bash someone that does and offers help to those that really want to learn.
To people like you setting up a bow and setting the timing on the cams is "super tuning".

This is the reason there are NO true pro's like Levi, Reo, and Chance coming on here and offering any advice or help. Why because of all the back yard pro wanna be's trash talking others just to make them selves look or sound better.

Alan has helped hundreds of people here on AT better understand the true methods of "super tuning". Things YOU call BS have been thought by the top coaches for the last 15 years. Alan has never tried to take credit for discovering these tuning methods just offering a better way of explaining it so people can understand.

These are mostly the same things my coaches taught me 15 to 20 years ago and the same things we teach hear to our customers but we walk them threw these tuning methods step by step.

The real shame is that this will most likely be the end of Nuts and Bolts coming on and offering advice or helping people that just want to improve there shooting skills. Another good guy no longer helping archers. A true shame.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

TexasCanesFan said:


> Funny enough, I texted a buddy about this exact same comparison. If KS did the exact same thing their would be a AT management backed lynch mod running 5 - 30 page long threads that would not get locked.
> 
> Shame to see the negative review thread locked. That's not protecting the members of AT.


That was more than a negative thread...it got to be outright bashing. Nothing wrong with saying, didn't care for it, expected more but attacking the individual is what got it closed.



frd567 said:


> That's what I am doing.
> With that said I aaaaaaaaaaASUMED, (we all know what that does) it would be a Griv's Thing A Week quality video.
> Oh well I will see what I can glean from it.


I assumed as well. that is until he flat out said what he was doing...Unfortunatley, many ignored it and kept their hopes up. Even though I knew that this was never intended to be what many wanted, I went on and made the purchase...archers helping archers.

I'll keep it, use what info I can, even as reference...then when some new archers comes up, give it to them.



aread said:


> *I'm not sure where I read it, but Alan said that the DVD would simply be his tuning guide on DVD. * I was hoping for some video demonstrations and maybe some attractive young ladies, but apparently it is exactly what he said it would be.
> 
> I haven't seen it yet, but when I get it, I'll view it the same way I do all posts, objectively and without feelings about the individual behind the post or the DVD. I've gotten great information from some people I don't like much and gotten worthless information from people I do like.
> 
> ...


Allen, looks like you paid attention too.

if there is anything that can be learned from this experience, for those that feel mislead...read the fine print, don't buy into marketing hype. Remember this when you're purchasing your new "techincally advanced, super speed, make you kill more deer" bow/equipment.


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## tcrew (Apr 24, 2011)

see troll.. take cover


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## rustown (Dec 13, 2008)

Bbd16 said:


> U really shouldnt need a dvd to teach u these things. There all over this website from several guys.


Perhaps YOU don't need it, but I do. I possess limited knowledge regarding these things. I was hoping for a comprehensive video (from who I believed to be an expert) that would educate me on the innumerable variables that go into properly setting up and tuning a bow. I readily admit my expectations were too high. I am fanatical about having things perfect in my bow setup. None of the local shops share that sentiment, and I don't like that my best alternative was sending my bow in the mail to someone for them to tune it without me being present. I attempted (and will continue until successful) to take matters into my own hands by purchasing the necessary equipment and instructional videos. That's all. I'm sure you're right about it being here. Just liked the idea of having it all in one place from one guy who I believed, until today, to be the guru of such things.


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## sean1 (Dec 5, 2009)

fire2201 said:


> I went to a seminar of his in Iowa he is very knowledgeable person. And really you guys are worried about spending $30


That's the one that gets me. I heard so many great reports about the Iowa seminar that I went to the Lancaster one. I was the one who contacted Lancaster to get the ball rolling for Alan to get that seminar going. 

To say the Lancaster seminar was a failure would be an understatement. They only thing we learned was from the Lancaster academy coaches. Rob was handing out 10% off coupons to help with PR. The first day he stood up front for 45 min telling us all his credentials. Told us to start shooting. We thought he would come down the line to give suggestions for improvement. Never happened. He sat in the back and ate hot dogs and helped some guy with a new set of strings on a bow. That was day one. I didn't go back day 2 but I was told it was the same. I wasted $150 and felt bad that I helped set this up

A year later I was reading the ladybowhunter12 thread. Thought I would give him another chance. Easy coaching from home. 

Wrong again. I bought a month of coaching. About half way through I started getting the arrogance a few others have mentioned. "I paid for this?" I learned very little except I will not make the mistake again to buy anything else from him. 

I think Alan does have some good info in there somewhere, but I feel he has an issue getting it across. I think he bit off more than he can handle with online coaching and making a DVD.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Buster of Xs said:


> So what did I miss here? :lol: Oh well. I've always thought Bolts was a little Nuts anyway. His tuning procedures? :mg:


Where have you been lately! Welcome back


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## Bbd16 (Feb 13, 2013)

rustown said:


> Perhaps YOU don't need it, but I do. I possess limited knowledge regarding these things. I was hoping for a comprehensive video (from who I believed to be an expert) that would educate me on the innumerable variables that go into properly setting up and tuning a bow. I readily admit my expectations were too high. I am fanatical about having things perfect in my bow setup. None of the local shops share that sentiment, and I don't like that my best alternative was sending my bow in the mail to someone for them to tune it without me being present. I attempted (and will continue until successful) to take matters into my own hands by purchasing the necessary equipment and instructional videos. That's all. I'm sure you're right about it being here. Just liked the idea of having it all in one place from one guy who I believed, until today, to be the guru of such things.


I think u took that the wrong way. It was a very short time ago that i knew nothing about tuning. Im just stating that there are several other good resorces here for u to learn other than just the dvd u ordered


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Absolute Archer said:


> Wow so give us your credentials. What has made you such a great "bow tuner"? Just because soo many "super tuners" on AT don't know anything about true tuning they rather bash someone that does and offers help to those that really want to learn.
> To people like you setting up a bow and setting the timing on the cams is "super tuning".
> 
> This is the reason there are NO true pro's like Levi, Reo, and Chance coming on here and offering any advice or help. Why because of all the back yard pro wanna be's trash talking others just to make them selves look or sound better.
> ...


 Easy boy.. Nobody telling you stop believing if thats what u choose to do.. Everybody entitled to their own opinion(s).. Just seems a few are finally waking up... minus 25 bucks in their wallets.. just saying...


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

tmorelli said:


> Nailed it.
> 
> Now,


Haha! I love that episode. Chreefiddy!


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

BadgerT said:


> If the Lancaster video you ordered is "The self reliant bowhunter" you won't be disappointed.


I just ordered the same video, thanks for sharing the link. I have mixed feelings on N&B's current situation:

1. I have learned a lot from Nuts&Bolts, I printed out his pdf. guide years ago and still use it today

2. Last week, for the first time, I sent N&Bs a PM with one question. He replied with a link to his private, online lessons - I thought this reply was ridiculous. I sent the same question to (Shane) Ontarget7 and he replied in 10 minutes with an answer.

3. I do not think N&Bs intentionally mislead anyone but it is clear to me that he replies to threads to promote his business and make $; I do not fault him for this. Although I read most of his posts in the _How is my Form_ threads, lately they read like an infomercial. I recognize that he is promoting his business and learn what I can.

Despite the poor reviews on the CD, I hope all the negativity does not scare him off, he is a knowledgeable guy who has helped a lot of Archers.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

300 DVD's & $31 = $9,300 
9300 - cost = $8000? $7000? $4000? 
How many sold total? 1,000? 700? Who knows......

Whatever it is it's a good turn. HOWEVER, if you calculate how many hours he has spent "selling" his brand I expect he hasn't cleared more than minimum wage per hour. More power to him as I don't have the patience to spend that much effort on-line. I'm guessing things were just beginning to really hum when the tires went flat... People are blowing it a bit out of whack. The DVD isn't what you expected but that's not really unusual. If he returns your money then he's more than fair about it!

How many bands made millions selling absolutely terrible albums, Cd's or DVD's only because they had become VERY popular? How about crummy movies we pay $15 each to see and leave with nothing in hand? At least you have DVD to pattern a turkey on!


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tsilvers said:


> Easy boy.. Nobody telling you stop believing if thats what u choose to do.. Everybody entitled to their own opinion(s).. Just seems a few are finally waking up... minus 25 bucks in their wallets.. just saying...


Waking up to what? A DVD that was not what they were hoping for. You guy's are trying to turn this into a Ohiobooners situation and it is not.

Just because some don't like the way his DVD was formatted does not mean he is a fraud or does not know what he is teaching.

Many of you need to take it easy and slow down the insults.


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## Double S (Mar 30, 2008)

Debate the dvd all you want but insults toward a member will not be tolerated. We'll shut any thread down that's insulting. If you have an issue with the dvd then contact Alan.


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## bushwick (Sep 20, 2008)

I could never get some things he has talked about!!! But if he Refunding peoples money! no harm no foul!!!!!!


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## ge1.5mw (Nov 22, 2010)

This is a joke. I hope you all are proud of yourselves getting your rocks off by bashing. No wonder why I don't post much on this forum. More to come later............


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

Absolute Archer said:


> Wow so give us your credentials. What has made you such a great "bow tuner"? Just because soo many "super tuners" on AT don't know anything about true tuning they rather bash someone that does and offers help to those that really want to learn.
> To people like you setting up a bow and setting the timing on the cams is "super tuning".
> 
> This is the reason there are NO true pro's like Levi, Reo, and Chance coming on here and offering any advice or help. Why because of all the back yard pro wanna be's trash talking others just to make them selves look or sound better.
> ...



So true, this place USED to be a great place to go for quality archery info.


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## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

well.......................

I wasn't one that paid for the dvd so I cannot comment on its value one way or another. I have read many of Alan's comments on everything "archery", so to speak. Some things I have found I disagree with based only on trying things myself, but that was basically just for me. I have noticed before that when his "comments" or "techniques" are questioned, he does not seem to respond with any form of explanation. This has left me with a feeling that he in fact, could not back up his claim, or could not positively refute the comments that were contrary to his opinions on set up or form issues. 

What does this all mean? I don't know, but I come away thinking to myself, _"don't believe everything you read on the internet"_. And I thought all this time that "You can't put something on the internet if it isn't true"..............................:wink::darkbeer:


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## nimh (Nov 26, 2011)

Absolute Archer said:


> Waking up to what? A DVD that was not what they were hoping for. You guy's are trying to turn this into a Ohiobooners situation and it is not.
> 
> Just because some don't like the way his DVD was formatted does not mean he is a fraud or does not know what he is teaching.
> 
> Many of you need to take it easy and slow down the insults.


How are you comparing nuts and bolts dvd to ohiobooners? I never thought about it till you posted that...


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## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

bushwick said:


> I could never get some things he has talked about!!! But if he Refunding peoples money! no harm no foul!!!!!!


He is doing right by folks that request a refund thru Paypal. 

Bashing needs to stop. If folks continue to bash, its a reflection on THEIR lack of character. 

He is doing the respectable thing for unhappy customers.


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## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Hard selling aside, what I don't understand is this.....

His PDF is accepted as a great source of free information but his video of the same information is now a worthless letdown because someone paid $25?

Good information is good information, use your brain and weigh up everything against other opinions and make your call.
I'm more than happy and will continue to listen to everyone willing to help


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## Joe2698 (Jun 8, 2013)

That dude served more kool aid then Jim Jones , sounds like lots of you still have it running down your chin. I think he's great for those who can't think for them selfs. You know the ones who want strangers to pick a bow for them. Or the ones who ask, what color strings should I get to match a snow camo bow. The search button is free just bring your own kool aid!


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## GILL (Jan 10, 2008)

A lot of people seem to think this is a scam. Do you suppose for a minute that N&B had the greatest of intentions with this project and simply failed in his execution? Alan, who is a real person, was probably hoping that this DVD release was going to be well received and that people would be praising his efforts this week. Now he is sitting at home, probably quite saddened, fielding a lot of negatively and offering refunds. AT has had some bad apples through the years with straight up scammers and crooks. Like it or not, people have looked to Alan for advise awhile now and many people were pleased with what that got from him. Let's give him a chance to make it right so we can move on.


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## orarcher (Jun 3, 2006)

I was on the pre order list glad I read this before submitting payment


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## ozzz (Jul 30, 2010)

orarcher said:


> I was on the pre order list glad I read this before submitting payment



Same Here, wow.


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

I'm not upset about being out $25 in the download. I throw away $25 every day on stupid stuff. I haven't watched every minute of all 10 episodes, but I have watched enough to know that what I bought is not what I expected. Now I will admit that that is a "bad on me" problem. Like many I went into this expecting this to be actual video of not only basic bow set up but advanced adjustments ... kind of like ... "now watch as I add a twist to this cable what the result is in this situation" type of stuff. I was expecting a break down of what twists and tweaks do to a bow so that a guy tuning a bow could then use those moves as needed when fine tuning a set up. But again, in retrospect and fairness to Alan, that was never promised on the front end ... I assumed this and that is my fault not his. I think Alan knows his stuff and is a stand up guy. I know in my case, I was guilty of reading between the lines and assuming that this was going to be something different than what it was in reality.

But what I will say is that if you are going to drop your money on his video, that this is literally a ton of still shots with a very monotone voice over that really leads to not many answers to problems or how to fixes. There is one segment on target panic that has to be the most boring thing ever put on video. Just Alan standing there for like 10 minutes pulling back a piece of paracord to simulate a bow and releasing it. Drink an entire pot of coffee before you watch it because you will need the caffeine to stay awake.

I will also say that what little true video is on it, there was no need for an expensive video camera. Any $300 HD video camera from Best Buy would have done the job. The audio is clean and clear (very monotone but that is what it is) ... but again, nothing that a Zoom H1 recorder could not pull off for a couple hundred bucks.

I will simply finish by saying, that I'm not going to request my money back as I feel that it was me who misinterpreted what I was buying. But buyer beware ... know exactly what you are buying. Watch the trailer because that is exactly what the bulk of this "video" is ...


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

I paid for it, and I can't wait to use it. If it sucks, I won't complain. It was $31 for pete's sake. Everyone on here had a chance to read N&B's posts, how you thought you were getting a professionally published 3-DVD set is pretty much beyond me...like so many of these posts say, everyone was "hoping" or "expecting" more. He is one guy spent a ton of time on this, built a website, found a replicator, etc. and now he is a scammer, the anti-christ? Some of you folks have an odd view on the world...

Maybe he could have been clearer, or spent more time on it, but if any of you guys have tried to create instructional videos, it isn't exactly a walk in the park...

Lot of IBAs behind keyboards on AT today...


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

I simply don't get it. Will someone show me a quote somewhere that what nutsandbolts said was all wrong. But you say "it wasn't what I expected."

I have bought a dozen arrows on here and got 10 in the mail of a totally different kind, different length and different brand than what I paid for....that is what you call "wasn't what I expected". 

I bought a right handed bow once and received in the mail a left handed bow...that is what you call "wasn't what I expected". 

But to bash a person on the way he did his DVD is absolutely silly. And besides that...send it back and he will refund your money!

You think my money was refunded on the wrong arrows I bought or the wrong bow I bought? Not a chance!


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## L.I.Archer (Sep 6, 2010)

smokin'dually said:


> So true, this place USED to be a great place to go for quality archery info.


Yeah, I agree, until a bunch of people on here made N&B out to be some sort of archery tuning deity. Then, all the rest of us who actually KNOW what we're doing just clammed up, sat back, and pulled up a bucket of popcorn.


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

Has he spoke up yet?


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## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

Correct me if I am wrong here but wasn't the DVD idea the brainchild of some AT members who goaded Alan in to putting it out? I never read any of his posts so correct me if I am wrong here but I thought he did this DVD thing because people asked for it. 

Correct?


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

For the record... the guy does have a substantial knowledge base, he is willing to share it, he has shared it for years, he has helped many people, some people print out his posts and still reference them. 

The ONLY issue is the format by which he put it on a DVD for distribution and apparently wasn't crystal clear on how the information is presented.


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

markdenis said:


> I simply don't get it. Will someone show me a quote somewhere that what nutsandbolts said was all wrong. But you say "it wasn't what I expected."
> 
> I have bought a dozen arrows on here and got 10 in the mail of a totally different kind, different length and different brand than what I paid for....that is what you call "wasn't what I expected".
> 
> ...


If you didn't get a refund on those items you must not have paid Paypal. Did you pursue it with a classifieds mod?

I do believe that Alan did mislead people on here. He posted several times about needing high quality video recording equipment and lighting, quality sound, expensive editing software, etc. He was sure to point out that the download version would be in high def. This all would imply that the product would include plenty of quality video. if it is in fact as it has been described by several on here now (I have not seen the video yet) then some cheap even free software, a digital camera and a computer would be more than adequate to do a slideshow of pictures with voice over.

Now I am not saying it was intentional but it just makes no sense that he would make a big deal about all those high dollar pieces of equipment needed for what appears to be such a low budget production. I mean just the cover art on the case and the pictures of cats and stuff on the dvd faces show very low production value. The more I think about it the more I think anyone who was trying to really sell a bunch of these and make a buck would have made a better effort on the looks of the product. I think Alan just doesn't have the cognitive skills to put together an attractive product. Not saying he is not highly intelligent, just that sometimes even the smartest people cannot relate to the people around them.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

nicko said:


> Correct me if I am wrong here but wasn't the DVD idea the brainchild of some AT members who goaded Alan in to putting it out? I never read any of his posts so correct me if I am wrong here but I thought he did this DVD thing because people asked for it.
> 
> Correct?


You may be on to something....


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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

From the posts I've read from him, he seems to be very knowledgeable, and a lot of his ideas work for me. What's the deal on the video, I was getting ready to order one, but after reading this-I don't think so. Is it just bad quality, possible if you aren't a video know it all, or does the content just leave a lot to be desired? Cheers--BB


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

nicko said:


> Correct me if I am wrong here but wasn't the DVD idea the brainchild of some AT members who goaded Alan in to putting it out? I never read any of his posts so correct me if I am wrong here but I thought he did this DVD thing because people asked for it.
> 
> Correct?


100% correct.

people wanted a DVD format instead of a PDF file...so he did one

The type of content that some people were expecting will be in the future.

if one reads through the different threads, they'll find this info.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

IA Monsterbuck said:


> If you didn't get a refund on those items you must not have paid Paypal. Did you pursue it with a classifieds mod?
> 
> I do believe that Alan did mislead people on here. He posted several times about needing high quality video recording equipment and lighting, quality sound, expensive editing software, etc. He was sure to point out that the download version would be in high def. This all would imply that the product would include plenty of quality video. if it is in fact as it has been described by several on here now (I have not seen the video yet) then some cheap even free software, a digital camera and a computer would be more than adequate to do a slideshow of pictures with voice over.
> 
> Now I am not saying it was intentional but it just makes no sense that he would make a big deal about all those high dollar pieces of equipment needed for what appears to be such a low budget production. I mean just the cover art on the case and the pictures of cats and stuff on the dvd faces show very low production value. The more I think about it the more I think anyone who was trying to really sell a bunch of these and make a buck would have made a better effort on the looks of the product. I think Alan just doesn't have the cognitive skills to put together an attractive product. Not saying he is not highly intelligent, just that sometimes even the smartest people cannot relate to the people around them.


If you are one of the people that bought then requested your money back, did you mail the DVD back to him?


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## Ijaw (May 12, 2012)

:deadhorse


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## LadyBowhunter12 (Jul 2, 2014)

rohpenguins said:


> This thread will be closed by a MOD soon just like the last one. . N&B has used this sight to market a product and services for $$$$. Just look at the ladybowhunter thread it was nothing more than an infomercial. I don't see anything wrong with folks discussing issues they may have had its too bad that some of the information came out after the fact.


Heyyyyyy I was just doing the tests. I wasn't trying to sell anything lol


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

L.I.Archer said:


> Yeah, I agree, until a bunch of people on here made N&B out to be some sort of archery tuning deity. Then, all the rest of us who actually KNOW what we're doing just clammed up, sat back, and pulled up a bucket of popcorn.


Can you give some specific things where Alan is wrong or where there is a better way?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn a better way.

Thanks,
Allen


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## TexasCanesFan (Jun 23, 2005)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


Hahahaaaaaaaa. This sounds exactly like something I would have typed. It's almost like you have a copy of some of my texts.


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## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

Fury90flier said:


> 100% correct.
> 
> people wanted a DVD format instead of a PDF file...so he did one
> 
> ...


Wow! So he goes ahead and gives people what they want and now he's being crucified for it and in some extreme cases people are calling him a thief. That's pretty pathetic. It sounds like Alan was goaded to go outside his comfort zone and make this DVD because I have read where some people have said he seemed reluctant to do so when they asked him about it in the past.

I wonder how many of these people that are pissing and moaning up-and-down about the DVD are the same ones who asked him or requested that he put a DVD out.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

nicko said:


> Wow! So he goes ahead and gives people what they want and now he's being crucified for it and in some extreme cases people are calling him a thief. That's pretty pathetic. It sounds like Alan was goaded to go outside his comfort zone and make this DVD because I have read where some people have said he seemed reluctant to do so when they asked him about it in the past.
> 
> I wonder how many of these people that are pissing and moaning up-and-down about the DVD are the same ones who asked him or requested that he put a DVD out.


Ya and I wonder how many people that requested their money back actually sent the DVD back to him. If they didn't, the people that kept the DVD and requested their money back are on the scam list.

Pay for something and get it in their hands, ask for money back for whatever reason, then keep the item....scammers do it all the time! It is one of the oldest scams in the books.


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## ProngHunter (Dec 17, 2009)

nicko said:


> Correct me if I am wrong here but wasn't the DVD idea the brainchild of some AT members who goaded Alan in to putting it out? I never read any of his posts so correct me if I am wrong here but I thought he did this DVD thing because people asked for it.
> 
> Correct?


X3. Pretty sure he did what AT members ask.


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## dsal (Dec 24, 2008)

I myself placed an order last night, asked for a refund early this morning by PM and email stating if not shipped, most likely not to kindly refund to my paypal. I have not heard back anything yet.
I am not bashing him in any way, just not keen on what I'm hearing about the video. Not what I thought it would be.


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## BoHunter0210 (Oct 3, 2011)

I'm going back to the OG thread.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

. 
The video sounds like all the crazy posts that he wrote all these years. 

Let me get this straight. Guys liked his advice on here when it was given freely, but now that they paid for it, well it sucks. 
If it was still free would it still make sense to you? 

One thing is certain AT members will eat their own on the drop of a dime.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Thought people made it clear what they thought it would be in his thread. Plus the equipment he bought and the way he was talking made it sounds like an actual video. Doubt he tried to do that but we defiantly were not on the same page.

Not going to bash him. Im happy that he was here to show the synonym press and give details on how to set it up. But when you begin selling items you open yourself up to get reviews, good or bad. Same when a retailer on here puts out a product people don't like.

But at this point idk if Alan chiming in even matters. He will get eaten alive regardless and that thread will explode.


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## JoshPSU (Oct 6, 2014)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


"The definition of archer's insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the SAME results." -L.I.Archer- >>>> How did you come up with this!?!?!


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## lunk2002 (Jul 22, 2006)

Absolute Archer said:


> Wow so give us your credentials. What has made you such a great "bow tuner"? Just because soo many "super tuners" on AT don't know anything about true tuning they rather bash someone that does and offers help to those that really want to learn.
> To people like you setting up a bow and setting the timing on the cams is "super tuning".
> 
> This is the reason there are NO true pro's like Levi, Reo, and Chance coming on here and offering any advice or help. Why because of all the back yard pro wanna be's trash talking others just to make them selves look or sound better.
> ...


Well said.


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## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

Has Alan said he will no longer post up on AT or are these just assumptions?


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## slphawk (Sep 21, 2009)

I spend quite a bit of time on this forum and have benefited greatly from different member's information. I can see both sides of this recent debacle and from an outside perspective can see why people were let down. I'm not sure if he did it on purpose, but throughout the original "Who wants a DVD" thread NutsandBolts consistently referenced video, so in a sense he did mislead if video isn't a part of the DVD. There are many people "bashing" the "bashers," saying they should have known what they were getting. Should they have? Carry on. 

Examples:

Script notes to myself,
so I don't forget what to cover
when *filming*

Need the crane for the remote control *video shots*,
for the overhead views.

One man show. Doing the *video work myself*, two *video cam system*, with wireless remote control.

gotta do this right, so building that boom crane so I can do a proper overhead shot *(still and video)*.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

slphawk said:


> I spend quite a bit of time on this forum and have benefited greatly from different member's information. I can see both sides of this recent debacle and from an outside perspective can see why people were let down. I'm not sure if he did it on purpose, but throughout the original "Who wants a DVD" thread NutsandBolts consistently referenced video, so in a sense he did mislead if video isn't a part of the DVD. There are many people "bashing" the "bashers," saying they should have known what they were getting. Should they have? Carry on.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> ...


If these are his words. I believe there is more to come. Or there is a remote possibility it is already on the DVD but not showing up for some reason or another.


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

slphawk said:


> I spend quite a bit of time on this forum and have benefited greatly from different member's information. I can see both sides of this recent debacle and from an outside perspective can see why people were let down. I'm not sure if he did it on purpose, but throughout the original "Who wants a DVD" thread NutsandBolts consistently referenced video, so in a sense he did mislead if video isn't a part of the DVD. There are many people "bashing" the "bashers," saying they should have known what they were getting. Should they have? Carry on.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but if these are really his posts, how can any of you defend him? pretty clear by these posts that he is selling a video that me made with cranes and two video cam's, heck he even said in this post that he wants to do over head still's and videos. It looks pretty black and white to me that it was super misleading. Even if there is good info on the videos, none of the consumers got what they paid for.


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## TAIL_CHASER (Dec 23, 2014)

It may just be a stepping stone for part 2 and three and four. Anyone in?


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

markdenis said:


> If these are his words. I believe there is more to come. Or there is a remote possibility it is already on the DVD but not showing up for some reason or another.


lol... possibility it's already on the CD? Did u really just say that...


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

tsilvers said:


> lol... possibility it's already on the CD? Did u really just say that...


yes I did


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

markdenis said:


> yes I did


ok.. lol...


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

tsilvers said:


> ok.. lol...


Notice I said remotely. There are a number of reasons.

1. It may already be on there but in a different file than the PDF file, and it may only be accessible by special instructions.
2. It was left off the original DVD by mistake, on purpose, or for some other reason and there is more to come.
3. The video file format may not be accessible without certain programs.

And of course another reason would be, he did not sell what he advertised. I am sure he will respond in time.


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## 45er (Jan 18, 2009)

Wow is all I can say. Seven pages in less than 24 hours. I almost ordered one of these DVD's because I thought there would be video instructions on how to tune a binary cam bow and showing what results with bare shafts, broadheads, paper tears etc. as certain operations were performed on the bow. Guess not. Sure wish someone would do this I could use the help!


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## joeve (May 13, 2010)

45er said:


> Wow is all I can say. Seven pages in less than 24 hours. I almost ordered one of these DVD's because I thought there would be video instructions on how to tune a binary cam bow and showing what results with bare shafts, broadheads, paper tears etc. as certain operations were performed on the bow. Guess not. Sure wish someone would do this I could use the help!


I ordered "The Self Reliant Bowhunter" which was suggested during all the controversy. Maybe a silver lining?


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## Steelpicker (Jan 9, 2015)

About a year ago, my brother and I started talking about me coming to Texas, his stomping grounds, and hunting with him. We hadn't seen one another in about seven years and getting together to do what we grew up doing, really sounded good to me. I told him I'd pull out my junk and start shooting some to try to be in shape. He said get on AT and check out this guy Nutz and Boltz. He said his writings are hard to follow, but his information seems valid and he has an engineering background. Since I am a retire Marine, with a back ground in electronics, having worked for Lockheed Martin and McDonald Douglas, reviewing the writings of an engineer intrigued me. Well I did, and he was correct. N&B writings were excruciatingly painful to get through. But, the information he was freely giving was good. Right about now, your asking yourself, how does this Shi Thead, know that. In 76, I was shooting a pawn shop, Bear Patriot, the guy down the line was shooting a Caroll and packing them together at 60 yards. The next week, I was shooting a Bear Polar II, tricked out as best one could be, back then and giving Mr. Caroll a run for his money. Six months later that now, not so new Polar, had Tamerlane wheels on it and kicking butt. Armed with Fred Bears "Tuning Your Compound Bow" and Larry Wise's book(about the only thing available), I coaxed that Polar II into shooting a 298/24. Fast forward, Hoyt, Matthews, Browning, Jennings, 3 North Carolina ASA 3D Championships, 2 North Carolina Senior Games Championships and shooting in the money in Vegas(using 3L18s when everyone else on the line was shooting logs), I knew a thing about tuning and shooting. Now, 71... been out of the game for years, along comes hybrid, binary, no cam, 340+, GTs and such and I come looking for information. AT is the place... The best place, many knowledgeable people with varied backgrounds willing to help even an old out dated broken down use to be. And the most giving of information? Seemed to be Nuts and Bolts. Does he have another agenda? Maybe... Does he want to sell something? Maybe... Do I have to buy it? No... The information is already there. He gave it to us for nothing. Is what he's already given worth $25? Hell yes! I'll hunt with my brother Jack in Texas next season, my bow will be super tuned using "some" of the information Nuts and Bolts provided for nothing. And for that, thank you Nuts and Bolts. I hope you recover from this and choose not to leave AT. But if you do, post one last time where you go...


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## L.I.Archer (Sep 6, 2010)

JoshPSU said:


> "The definition of archer's insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the SAME results." -L.I.Archer- >>>> How did you come up with this!?!?!


I came up with this after setting up and tuning the same brand and model of bow the same way each time, and then shooting through paper, with the results never being the same. Each bow of the same make and model has its own little quirk - some tune a little nock high; some dead level; and some a little nock low. Some tune with the arrow pointing away from the riser; some point towards; some tune straight down. So, if you try to set up 2 bows of the same make and model the same way each time, you're going to get different results. The archer's insanity is to expect the results to be the same.


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## ctarcher (Jun 7, 2002)

Well said. 
I have ordered the DVD set and am awaiting their delivery. I'll pass judgement after I watch the DVDs.

Alan has given all of us a lot of information, and has spent a lot of his time, for free. I read his articles and try to do what the posts try to explain.

I feel the information he posts has helped me be more consistant. My scores have gone up and the effort and stress I had trying to keep arrows in the X-ring has reduced.

From by point of view - I hope Alan keeps posting.


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Id say the dvd is probably still worth it but definitly not what the fanbase thought it was going to be. That said I didnt order one nor did i entend to. [emoji1]


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

Let's not get to negative on here. It's going to get shut down like every other thread. If you bought the DVD and feel you got taken then you have every right to come on here and state your dissatisfaction. If your friends with him then you have every right to defend him as a person but don't have the right to tell people they can't give there honest opinion on something they bought and where disappointed with. It's called a review,we use them every day to buy things. Especially in the archery world. Look at how many people didn't know that the format was stills and voice over. From this review people will make up there mind to buy or not.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> Let's not get to negative on here. It's going to get shut down like every other thread. If you bought the DVD and feel you got taken then you have every right to come on here and state your dissatisfaction. If your friends with him then you have every right to defend him as a person but don't have the right to tell people they can't give there honest opinion on something they bought and where disappointed with. It's called a review,we use them every day to buy things. Especially in the archery world. Look at how many people didn't know that the format was stills and voice over. From this review people will make up there mind to buy or not.


This is all true, however this seems to be what some have been waiting for. The reason to jump all over Alan and call him a lair and a fraud. This is what is unacceptable and is why these threads are being shut down and they should be.


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## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

L.I.Archer said:


> I came up with this after setting up and tuning the same brand and model of bow the same way each time, and then shooting through paper, with the results never being the same. Each bow of the same make and model has its own little quirk - some tune a little nock high; some dead level; and some a little nock low. Some tune with the arrow pointing away from the riser; some point towards; some tune straight down. So, if you try to set up 2 bows of the same make and model the same way each time, you're going to get different results. The archer's insanity is to expect the results to be the same.


Lets be clear. You didnt COME UP with it. You modified a saying that has been around for decades by adding "the definition of archers"to the front :wink:

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/06/the_definition_of_insanity_is_the_most_overused_cliche_of_all_time/


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

This tread really turned me off big time. Shows how little class a lot of people have on here.

I haven't been a N&B fan at all, I read few of his posts on tuning and form and they left me puzzled to say they least. I thought much of it was making things overly complicated for lack of better description and they went against the grain and my own experiences.
I got to where I just skipped over anything he would write. 

Now that is just me. Maybe his methods worked for other guys, I really don't know. 
What I do know is a lot of guys on here sure used his advice and went out of their way to get it from him. 
Like it or not he put a lot of time in answering questions( many of which were totally idiotic). 

Now he makes this DVD at the suggestion of many of you and because it didn't meet your expectations ...well now you throw the guy under the bus. 

Pretty low class bunch.


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## novich69 (Dec 1, 2006)

L.I.Archer,you seem to be a wealth of knowledge and a legend in your own mind,so why don't you jump in when people ask for help? Ops, missed that you were from Long Island,now I understand.


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

Absolute Archer said:


> This is all true, however this seems to be what some have been waiting for. The reason to jump all over Alan and call him a lair and a fraud. This is what is unacceptable and is why these threads are being shut down and they should be.


I get your his friend and you are sticking up for him. I don't think he is a fraud because he has given some refunds. But it was misleading with all the high tech cameras and recorders he had to get in order to create this DVD. People expected more and maybe they where wrong in doing so but they have every right to come on here and express there displeasure. I don't think name calling is warranted because hopefully we are grown up enough to do so without it. Most are and you are going to have a handful who are going to stir the pot but just ignore it like you do when reading reviews for other things you are looking to buy. I thought it was going to be a step by step video as well. And I also purchased some online lessons from him because I had some tuning issues and was less than impressed with the lack of response to my emails to him. I learned my lesson and swallowed the poop I was fed. If people want to come on the forum and express there disappointment then so be it. But you can't slam the people for doing so. Like I said the ones that do it to get a rise out of people just ignore.


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## reezen11 (Oct 22, 2009)

iceman14 said:


> How is my form?


If only knew how to take that photo and draw you some lines on it ..


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## L.I.Archer (Sep 6, 2010)

novich69 said:


> L.I.Archer,you seem to be a wealth of knowledge and a legend in your own mind,so why don't you jump in when people ask for help? Ops, missed that you were from Long Island,now I understand.


Did you not read any of my responses in this thread as to why I slowed down giving out advice? Go look through the archives and see how much advice I'd already given over the years. Then, go to the DIY section and search my name for schematics on how to build the shooting machine & drawboard, and the arrow spine tester. So, I'm from Long Island. What, that automatically makes me an ass****?? I'm probably one of the nicest and most giving people you would ever meet, but you'll never know that because you've already formed your biased opinion. People like you are also the reason I slowed down a lot in my comments, because all you know how to do is bash.

As for the wealth of knowledge in my mind: I have a Bachelor's degree in Architecture and put up many buildings over the course of 25 years. I've worked at 2 pro shops for over 10 years and now I can comfortably tune bows at home. I make strings and cables that are comparable to the premium ones you have to send away for. I've helped out both shops I worked for when they needed strings and cables in emergencies, and I still fill in whenever they need me. I volunteer to help new members of my club set up and shoot their bows. I also do my clinicals at several hospitals while trying to get my RN license. Is there anything else you'd like to attack me for?


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## Crapshot (Oct 18, 2013)

If the guy was Pulling a caper then he would not be refunding money. Understand his intentions and the guy has helped people. Lighten up on the guy. There are so many AT members who sound like a bunch of squling *****es


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> I get your his friend and you are sticking up for him. I don't think he is a fraud because he has given some refunds. But it was misleading with all the high tech cameras and recorders he had to get in order to create this DVD. People expected more and maybe they where wrong in doing so but they have every right to come on here and express there displeasure. I don't think name calling is warranted because hopefully we are grown up enough to do so without it. Most are and you are going to have a handful who are going to stir the pot but just ignore it like you do when reading reviews for other things you are looking to buy. I thought it was going to be a step by step video as well. And I also purchased some online lessons from him because I had some tuning issues and was less than impressed with the lack of response to my emails to him. I learned my lesson and swallowed the poop I was fed. If people want to come on the forum and express there disappointment then so be it. But you can't slam the people for doing so. Like I said the ones that do it to get a rise out of people just ignore.


I respect an honest review but the rude name calling of someone that has helped so many people for free does not deserve this.
If you don't like the DVD than fine return it. However some have taken this a little to far and is the only reason I'm posting on all these threads.

And yes he is a friend............


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

L.I.Archer said:


> Did you not read any of my responses in this thread as to why I slowed down giving out advice? Go look through the archives and see how much advice I'd already given over the years. Then, go to the DIY section and search my name for schematics on how to build the shooting machine & drawboard, and the arrow spine tester. So, I'm from Long Island. What, that automatically makes me an ass****?? I'm probably one of the nicest and most giving people you would ever meet, but you'll never know that because you've already formed your biased opinion. People like you are also the reason I slowed down a lot in my comments, because all you know how to do is bash.
> 
> As for the wealth of knowledge in my mind: I have a Bachelor's degree in Architecture and put up many buildings over the course of 25 years. I've worked at 2 pro shops for over 10 years and now I can comfortably tune bows at home. I make strings and cables that are comparable to the premium ones you have to send away for. I've helped out both shops I worked for when they needed strings and cables in emergencies, and I still fill in whenever they need me. I volunteer to help new members of my club set up and shoot their bows. I also do my clinicals at several hospitals while trying to get my RN license. Is there anything else you'd like to attack me for?


Touché nice comeback. Someone is eating crow right now.


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## thwacker (Dec 25, 2009)

Didn't order the DVD but found this after all this controversy...
Isn't this what NB promised in the original thread

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1979689&page=201&p=1071813538#post1071813538
#5025


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## rackfreak210 (Feb 14, 2011)

Shut it down. Lets be done with this nonsense.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

RockGuitarzan said:


> Lets be clear. You didnt COME UP with it. You modified a saying that has been around for decades by adding "the definition of archers"to the front :wink:
> 
> http://www.salon.com/2013/08/06/the_definition_of_insanity_is_the_most_overused_cliche_of_all_time/


The decades saying was ''expecting a different result''. L.I. says,'' expecting the same result.''
That's quite different without archers being added.


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## dsal (Dec 24, 2008)

thwacker said:


> Didn't order the DVD but found this after all this controversy...
> Isn't this what NB promised in the original thread
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1979689&page=201&p=1071813538#post1071813538
> #5025


This is the only reason I ask for my refund, I was expecting more to what others are stating what's on the video. I am trying to contact him before he ships the order but he is not responding on any of the ways I have tried to contact him. 
I hope I am not sounding like I am bashing him which mean not to in any way, just think he miss represented what he was selling. Now he need to reply to people who are trying to contact him.


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## jaredjms (Oct 24, 2007)

L.I.Archer said:


> P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Apparently, AT spits them out a dozen at a time. All this time, I've refrained from commenting on Alan Lui's "tuning" information, because the bashfest would have been epic. I once saw Alan's own form while shooting a bow, and it is nothing close to what he touts in his dissertations. If you've ever noticed, the real professional bow tuners on here never once jumped on his DVD bandwagon. That's because we all know what a crock of poo it really is. Personally, I read his posts and I shake my head, asking myself, "W T F is he talking about???" I'm sure all my fellow bow tuners have said the same thing to themselves. You all jumped on his bandwagon, and got burned while he got your money. He's the main reason I don't really comment on posts anymore, because you're all blindly kissing his ass, and taking his word as gospel every time he posts a "solution." Why should real bow tuners, such as myself, share our knowledge when you're only going to listen to the loudest man in the room (even when he's the most wrong)?? Enjoy your $25 coasters.


I couldn't agree more, I've sat back thinking these exact thoughts


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

dsal said:


> This is the only reason I ask for my refund, I was expecting more to what others are stating what's on the video. I am trying to contact him before he ships the order but he is not responding on any of the ways I have tried to contact him.
> I hope I am not sounding like I am bashing him which mean not to in any way, just think he miss represented what he was selling. Now he need to reply to people who are trying to contact him.


Geeese with all that has happened today, give him a day to reply to everyone.


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## thwacker (Dec 25, 2009)

dsal said:


> This is the only reason I ask for my refund, I was expecting more to what others are stating what's on the video. I am trying to contact him before he ships the order but he is not responding on any of the ways I have tried to contact him.
> I hope I am not sounding like I am bashing him which mean not to in any way, just think he miss represented what he was selling. Now he need to reply to people who are trying to contact him.


All I'm saying is he didn't say anything about it being anything than what it was in post #5025


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## reezen11 (Oct 22, 2009)

One thing i find weird is he usually is posting daily .. Today ... Notta ... 
No coming forth with any responses ..
Not bashing ,im just saying ..
Is the dvd what i thoughtnit was going to be ? Not from what ive reqd here ,but i wont bash but i thought alan would be on here to say something about all this ..


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

He has been on, just hasn't come on to comment on the situation. I don't think I blame him but he does have to face the music sometime.


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## Bigdaddysimp (Sep 3, 2011)

crapshot said:


> if the guy was pulling a caper then he would not be refunding money. Understand his intentions and the guy has helped people. Lighten up on the guy. There are so many at members who sound like a bunch of squling *****es


x2!


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## dsal (Dec 24, 2008)

thwacker said:


> All I'm saying is he didn't say anything about it being anything than what it was in post #5025


Sorry not trying to say that you stated anything, just this post is the one that had me miss understood on what the dvd would be. Maybe I am the only one maybe not.


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## thwacker (Dec 25, 2009)

dsal said:


> Sorry not trying to say that you stated anything, just this post is the one that had me miss understood on what the dvd would be. Maybe I am the only one maybe not.


Your definitely not the only one lol


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## frd567 (Jan 30, 2012)

Wasn't it last winter there was a big N&B bash fest going?
They were trying to goad him into responding accusing him of some hurendus stuff.
N&B took the high road and didn't take the bait.
I think returning peoples money on request speaks volumes for his integrity.
As for me I still want the DVD.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

I've had some personal dealings with Alan. Not face to face, but phone, email and mail.
He was nothing less than straightforward, honest and sincere.

I buy a lot of programming books. A lot of them are $40-$50 apiece, have lots of errors, and sometimes only have a page or two of relatable information out of 500 pages. I use what I can and move on.

Why this has turned into a personal attack is shameful and speaks volumes!


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

thwacker said:


> Didn't order the DVD but found this after all this controversy...
> Isn't this what NB promised in the original thread
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1979689&page=201&p=1071813538#post1071813538
> #5025


Why did he hype up the expensive video equipment then. Guesd its just good marketing on his part.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

nhns4 said:


> Why did he hype up the expensive video equipment then. Guesd its just good marketing on his part.


Alan tried several different methods and did what HE thought worked the best. It's a little hard to do a video with no camera man.


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Absolute Archer said:


> Alan tried several different methods and did what HE thought worked the best. It's a little hard to do a video with no camera man.


But i would venture to say he didnt need to spend thousands on one as he claimed. Video cameras are for movement. He has still images. Heck any smart phone can take stellar pictures. Computer software is all he needed to add his voice. 
I could care less either way but aside from 1 post of his is was misleading.


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## grander (Mar 19, 2009)

Holy cow


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

frd567 said:


> Wasn't it last winter there was a big N&B bash fest going?
> They were trying to goad him into responding accusing him of some hurendus stuff.
> N&B took the high road and didn't take the bait.
> I think returning peoples money on request speaks volumes for his integrity.
> As for me I still want the DVD.


Yep. There were some "tuners" and others that l piled on him. 

They were threatened because Alan teaches a man to catch fish by himself. That bothers some. That's money lost because they couldn't "tune" for $$.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

whack n stack said:


> Yep. There were some "tuners" and others that l piled on him.
> 
> They were threatened because Alan teaches a man to catch fish by himself. That bothers some. That's money lost because they couldn't "tune" for $$.


Yup it was about the term "super tuning". 

The funny thing is, is those that call them selves "super tuners" are the one's misleading people.
Now I'm not bashing ANYONE and agree the service they provide is a good one and well worth what they charge, however it is far from "super tuning" as Alan has pointed out several times. It is nothing more than proper bow set up and is something that is lacking in allot of "pro shops" today.


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## Dhninja (Aug 12, 2014)

Just filed a claim with PayPal for my money back !


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

whack n stack said:


> Yep. There were some "tuners" and others that l piled on him.
> 
> They were threatened because Alan teaches a man to catch fish by himself. That bothers some. That's money lost because they couldn't "tune" for $$.


Yep, that was over a bow I asked him to help me with.
He DID NOT TAKE ONE DIME FOR THE WORK, and all he asked was I buy him the string material.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

I don't know Alan, and he isn't my friend. I did order the DVDs, because it's $31 and I bet after dropping LITERALLY THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS on archery gear without so much as an instruction manual most of time, I'll learn something about my gear and how to tune it. If not, then at least I helped a guy who appears to try and help others. Did I say it was $31?

Some of you folks on here, for grown men, should just be ashamed of yourselves and your self righteous attacks. Clean up your own back yard...


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I don't know Alan, and he isn't my friend. I did order the DVDs, because it's $31 and I bet after dropping LITERALLY THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS on archery gear without so much as an instruction manual most of time, I'll learn something about my gear and how to tune it. If not, then at least I helped a guy who appears to try and help others. Did I say it was $31?
> 
> Some of you folks on here, for grown men, should just be ashamed of yourselves and your self righteous attacks. Clean up your own back yard...


End of story right there!


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I don't know Alan, and he isn't my friend. I did order the DVDs, because it's $31 and I bet after dropping LITERALLY THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS on archery gear without so much as an instruction manual most of time, I'll learn something about my gear and how to tune it. If not, then at least I helped a guy who appears to try and help others. Did I say it was $31?
> 
> Some of you folks on here, for grown men, should just be ashamed of yourselves and your self righteous attacks. Clean up your own back yard...


I agree, I wonder how many people that attended his seminars asked for there money back........It's just soooo much easier to be a tuff guy while hiding behind a key board.

I know all that have attended his classes here all learned allot and were more than pleased.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I don't know Alan, and he isn't my friend. I did order the DVDs, because it's $31 and I bet after dropping LITERALLY THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS on archery gear without so much as an instruction manual most of time, I'll learn something about my gear and how to tune it. If not, then at least I helped a guy who appears to try and help others. Did I say it was $31?
> 
> Some of you folks on here, for grown men, should just be ashamed of yourselves and your self righteous attacks. Clean up your own back yard...


Most of what you say may be true but "Its JUST 31$" isnt a valid argument. Thats a lot of money to some people. Might be someones entire disposable income for a month.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Tradbow Guy said:


> Most of what you say may be true but "Its JUST 31$" isnt a valid argument. Thats a lot of money to some people. Might be someones entire disposable income for a month.


Then they shouldn't be sending it to some fellow on AT via PayPal expecting to win the friggin' PowerBall or something...seriously? Maybe they should be buying shoes for the kids, some milk, or pooling the money with 6 other archers so it's a $5 investment...


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

Tradbow Guy said:


> Most of what you say may be true but "Its JUST 31$" isnt a valid argument. Thats a lot of money to some people. Might be someones entire disposable income for a month.


Than they should not be buying DVD's. Maybe they should be out looking for another job or better one.


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## RobG (Jan 20, 2014)

ks bow hunter said:


> then they shouldn't be sending it to some fellow on at via paypal expecting to win the friggin' powerball or something...seriously? Maybe they should be buying shoes for the kids, some milk, or pooling the money with 6 other archers so it's a $5 investment...


amen!


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## novich69 (Dec 1, 2006)

L.I.Archer said:


> Did you not read any of my responses in this thread as to why I slowed down giving out advice? Go look through the archives and see how much advice I'd already given over the years. Then, go to the DIY section and search my name for schematics on how to build the shooting machine & drawboard, and the arrow spine tester. So, I'm from Long Island. What, that automatically makes me an ass****?? I'm probably one of the nicest and most giving people you would ever meet, but you'll never know that because you've already formed your biased opinion. People like you are also the reason I slowed down a lot in my comments, because all you know how to do is bash.
> 
> As for the wealth of knowledge in my mind: I have a Bachelor's degree in Architecture and put up many buildings over the course of 25 years. I've worked at 2 pro shops for over 10 years and now I can comfortably tune bows at home. I make strings and cables that are comparable to the premium ones you have to send away for. I've helped out both shops I worked for when they needed strings and cables in emergencies, and I still fill in whenever they need me. I volunteer to help new members of my club set up and shoot their bows. I also do my clinicals at several hospitals while trying to get my RN license. Is there anything else you'd like to attack me for?


See how getting bashed makes people feel?Thats all I wanted to point out. Point made!


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## ProngHunter (Dec 17, 2009)

Tradbow Guy said:


> Most of what you say may be true but "Its JUST 31$" isnt a valid argument. Thats a lot of money to some people. Might be someones entire disposable income for a month.


AT is always a good place to spend $31 disposable income. I can't think of anything or anywhere else more important to spend that money, especially if that's all that was left at the end of the month.


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## rocks66ss (Jul 29, 2014)

Wow, after reading all these threads, I'm sure glad that youtube and the search feature is my friend.


Rocky


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## novich69 (Dec 1, 2006)

tpetrain said:


> Touché nice comeback. Someone is eating crow right now.


And who would that be? I worked as a carpenter for 34 yrs. built many different structures.I work in an archery shop and build my own strings plus tune many bows at home for other people. How do you like your crow?


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

Absolute Archer said:


> Yup it was about the term "super tuning".
> 
> The funny thing is, is those that call them selves "super tuners" are the one's misleading people.
> Now I'm not bashing ANYONE and agree the service they provide is a good one and well worth what they charge, however it is far from "super tuning" as Alan has pointed out several times. It is nothing more than proper bow set up and is something that is lacking in allot of "pro shops" today.


Yes sir. 

I'm waiting for one in particular to chime in on this thread. His world will come crashing down around him if he does.

You know what they say about what not to do while living in glass houses.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

whack n stack said:


> yes sir.
> 
> I'm waiting for one in particular to chime in on this thread. His world will come crashing down around him if he does.
> 
> You know what they say about what not to do while living in glass houses.


lol


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## LadyBowhunter12 (Jul 2, 2014)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I don't know Alan, and he isn't my friend. I did order the DVDs, because it's $31 and I bet after dropping LITERALLY THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS on archery gear without so much as an instruction manual most of time, I'll learn something about my gear and how to tune it. If not, then at least I helped a guy who appears to try and help others. Did I say it was $31?
> 
> Some of you folks on here, for grown men, should just be ashamed of yourselves and your self righteous attacks. Clean up your own back yard...


In my opinion, you are dead on!


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Absolute Archer said:


> I agree, I wonder how many people that attended his seminars asked for there money back........It's just soooo much easier to be a tuff guy while hiding behind a key board.
> 
> I know all that have attended his classes here all learned allot and were more than pleased.


In the original thread, I found nothing more perplexing than the dirty laundry aired by attendees of the Lancaster show. Surely, you know Rob....and since you both hosted seminars, wouldn't there have been some sharing? 

How did those customers in PA have such a different POV than you are reporting?


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Absolute Archer said:


> Than they should not be buying DVD's. Maybe they should be out looking for another job or better one.


Maybe you shouldnt judge people and their situation. And maybe they can spend that disposable income on whatever they want, since its disposable. Maybe poor people like dvds as much as rich people. Now you are the one sounding like the horses rear end here.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tmorelli said:


> In the original thread, I found nothing more perplexing than the dirty laundry aired by attendees of the Lancaster show. Surely, you know Rob....and since you both hosted seminars, wouldn't there have been some sharing?
> 
> How did those customers in PA have such a different POV than you are reporting?


Good point, but the better ? is why did they take so long to tell us there dislikes? Why did they not start a thread right after they got home with all the emotions fresh in there heads?

And yes I know Rob but we have never talked about Alan or the seminars.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

Tradbow Guy said:


> Maybe you shouldnt judge people and their situation. And maybe they can spend that disposable income on whatever they want. Now you are the one sounding like the horses rear end here.


The truth hurts some times. And trust me I know what it's like to be so poor I couldn't afford to pay attention.

But back than I wasn't buying DVD's about archery. And I'm not telling anyone what to do with there money, just don't spend it than cry about what YOU bought.


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## NCBuckNBass (Mar 5, 2005)

TexasCanesFan said:


> Do the quick math on what he is going to make off the members here on AT. I have said it is all self promotion for a long time.


My take on all this:

There are quite a few very jealous guys on here that wished they had the following and respect Alan earned. Most of them have already posted in the two threads. Enjoy your short moment in the sun.

Folks forget all the thousands of helpful posts Alan made prior to taking a dime from anybody. The phrase "ungrateful basstered" comes to mind.

Alan's big mistake was not charging for the pdf of tuning from the beginning if you ask me! 

An observations: Folks that sense a weakness and then pile on when they were afraid to do so alone before are why hyenas and lions differ. The vultures are you low post count guys I never saw on here before who crawl out from under the rocks cause they sense they can score points with the hyenas. Good luck with that............I see he's already holding one of you up as proof he's king for the day in his avatar.


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## link06 (Mar 3, 2008)

Leave it to some AT members to make a mountain out of a mole hill! Why don't you guys just request a refund and be done with it? Why dramatize it? The "video" wasn't what many had hoped for, get a refund and move on. I guess I don't see why people would want to run his name thru the mud over a dvd that did not meet expectations. I completely understand voicing your displeasure over the "video" or lack of but to personally attack him is sickening. I know I really don't need to ask this but, is this really what AT has become? If he was denying refunds than the situation changes for sure but so far from what we've seen that's not been the case. I probably wouldn't be happy with the dvd either but I definitely wouldn't attack him over it, especially if he's willing to refund my money.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I don't see how a refund would be in order here...the DVD is exactly what he said it would be...basically, the PDF in DVD format....isn't that what everyone is getting.

When I found out that the DVD was the PDF file, at first I was disappointed...then I grew up. I figured I'd be helping a fellow AT'r out and would have it as reference. At worst case, I'd be able to give it to some young new shooter.

I still don't see where he lied to anyone...no one has yet to provide any evidence of that---please provide evidence of a lie...those that think he lied


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

Absolute Archer said:


> lol


I'm not kidding. 

There so much info on people these days.. Troubles with the law, etc.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Fury90flier said:


> I don't see how a refund would be in order here...the DVD is exactly what he said it would be...basically, the PDF in DVD format....isn't that what everyone is getting.
> 
> When I found out that the DVD was the PDF file, at first I was disappointed...then I grew up. I figured I'd be helping a fellow AT'r out and would have it as reference. At worst case, I'd be able to give it to some young new shooter.
> 
> I still don't see where he lied to anyone...no one has yet to provide any evidence of that---please provide evidence of a lie...those that think he lied


Well its splitting hairs but he did say full blu-ray quality, which is impossible on dvd.


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## R1STEER (Feb 12, 2009)

whack n stack said:


> I'm not kidding.
> 
> There so much info on people these days.. Troubles with the law, etc.


Did you run a background check on someone that disagreed with N&B's tuning methods to have ammo to smear this person if they did it again? My apologies to you if I misunderstood your posts. If I understood correctly, well, I don't know what to say. That would seem far worse than any of the ridiculous N&B bashing that has been happening since the DVD release.


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## frd567 (Jan 30, 2012)

The way I look at it is, do I feel misled? Well honestly yes I do.
Do I feel cheated? Not in the least.
I will get the same info just in a different format.
What this did do is to motivate me to buy the DVD that was talked about on another thred. I also was going to buy Griv's video on form and shot but it was on BO.
So every cloud has a silver lining, I have not dwelled in negativity but turned it into a positive because knowledge is power and this has motivated me to have a much greater knowledge base at my finger tips.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Absolute Archer said:


> Good point, but the better ? is why did they take so long to tell us there dislikes? Why did they not start a thread right after they got home with all the emotions fresh in there heads?
> 
> And yes I know Rob but we have never talked about Alan or the seminars.


I think we've talked about my opinion of "why" in the past.... The cult like following that deemed him infallible. The refusal to respond to questioning or debate/defend a topic.

In my opinion, there were an alarming number of negative reviews on direct dealings for paid services (not related to the DVD) with Alan that came out in a short period of time in the original thread and some in this one. That leads me to believe frustration has been building underground for some time. I'm not sure why this was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it appears to be.


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## tscan (Jun 18, 2010)

wow... this thread is 10 pages and still going:mg:


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tmorelli said:


> I think we've talked about my opinion of "why" in the past.... The cult like following that deemed him infallible. The refusal to respond to questioning or debate/defend a topic.
> 
> In my opinion, there were an alarming number of negative reviews on direct dealings for paid services (not related to the DVD) with Alan that came out in a short period of time in the original thread and some in this one. That leads me to believe frustration has been building underground for some time. I'm not sure why this was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it appears to be.


Recently yes but maybe that is because he was trying to get this dang DVD finished.

Even if this DVD is a bust, that does not change what he knows and how much he has helped sooo many people.
To destroy a mans name just because he was bad at making a DVD is just insane to me. It's not like he sent people a copy of Barney or something. He tried and at least give him some respect for trying.

The sad thing is Alan is the type of guy that if we were all out to dinner together we could heckle him about him making a bad DVD and he would laugh with us. This does not change in any way what he has done for so many people and does not change how many more he WILL help in the future.


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## link06 (Mar 3, 2008)

Absolute Archer said:


> Recently yes but maybe that is because he was trying to get this dang DVD finished.
> 
> Even if this DVD is a bust, that does not change what he knows and how much he has helped sooo many people.
> To destroy a mans name just because he was bad at making a DVD is just insane to me. It's not like he sent people a copy of Barney or something. He tried and at least give him some respect for trying.
> ...


Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if he left AT all together or atleast stopped posting to help out. It would be sad to lose such a great archery mind here on AT over a dvd.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

link06 said:


> Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if he left AT all together or atleast stopped posting to help out. It would be sad to lose such a great archery mind here on AT over a dvd.


I have talked to him, he'll be back................................................................................................................................................................


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

Why do people try to excuse an issue by saying "it's only $31"? That is POOR logic.


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## NCBuckNBass (Mar 5, 2005)

tmorelli said:


> I think we've talked about my opinion of "why" in the past.... The cult like following that deemed him infallible. The refusal to respond to questioning or debate/defend a topic.
> 
> In my opinion, there were an alarming number of negative reviews on direct dealings for paid services (not related to the DVD) with Alan that came out in a short period of time in the original thread and some in this one. That leads me to believe frustration has been building underground for some time. I'm not sure why this was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it appears to be.



This reads exactly like the tabloids at the check out at the grocery store......In my opinion.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

NCBuckNBass said:


> This reads exactly like the tabloids at the check out at the grocery store.


I'll have to take your word for it.


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## kill-em123 (Nov 17, 2014)

waiting for one persons response to hear his side


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

LetThemGrow said:


> Why do people try to excuse an issue by saying "it's only $31"? That is POOR logic.


Because relative to the personal attacks it is out of sync...


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

kill-em123 said:


> waiting for one persons response to hear his side


Tomorrow.


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

I bet he feels like... I believe it was the member who posted about the contest where u shoot the deer with tranquilizer arrows.Yep they didn't see it going this way!


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## sean1 (Dec 5, 2009)

Absolute Archer said:


> Recently yes but maybe that is because he was trying to get this dang DVD finished.
> 
> Even if this DVD is a bust, that does not change what he knows and how much he has helped sooo many people.
> To destroy a mans name just because he was bad at making a DVD is just insane to me. It's not like he sent people a copy of Barney or something. He tried and at least give him some respect for trying.
> ...


There is no doubt Alan has done a lot for people on here. And has for a while. 

But when you run a business and you start letting things slip, this is what happens. You start taking money and not giving the results people expect, it's only going to last for so long. I know I could not run my business the way Alan has run his in my own personal experience with him. 

I will not bash him or call him names nor do I agree with the anti fan club coming to roast him. But, he has not done a great job with his business in my opinion. He does have a lot of knowledge and I hope he gets things straightened out.


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## NCBuckNBass (Mar 5, 2005)

Generation Y has spoken. They expect James Cameron to make all future archery videos in Ultra hi def and do it on a shoe string budget solo available at the Apple store for $1.95. Got it!


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

NCBuckNBass said:


> Generation Y has spoken. They expect James Cameron to make all future archery videos in Ultra hi def and do it it on a shoe string budget solo. Got it!


To the defense of the term Video.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

whack n stack said:


> I'm not kidding.
> 
> There so much info on people these days.. Troubles with the law, etc.


and you flame others for lacking integrity... right on...lol..


----------



## La Wildman (Mar 9, 2010)

ks bow hunter said:


> i don't know alan, and he isn't my friend. I did order the dvds, because it's $31 and i bet after dropping literally thousands and thousands on archery gear without so much as an instruction manual most of time, i'll learn something about my gear and how to tune it. If not, then at least i helped a guy who appears to try and help others. Did i say it was $31?
> 
> Some of you folks on here, for grown men, should just be ashamed of yourselves and your self righteous attacks. Clean up your own back yard...




amen !!


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## sean1 (Dec 5, 2009)

NCBuckNBass said:


> Generation Y has spoken. They expect James Cameron to make all future archery videos in Ultra hi def and do it it on a shoe string budget solo available at the Apple store for $1.95. Got it!


If this is in regards to my post, I'm not even talking about the DVD.


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## NCBuckNBass (Mar 5, 2005)

nhns4 said:


> To the defense of the term Video.



KS is posting over on bowsite...........( throwing hamburger to the junkyard dog) Hurry....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! before he gets away.

Just remember that chain is 31 feet long.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Absolute Archer said:


> Tomorrow.


Get over it... your boy duped a bunch of people and there pissed.... boohoo... 

Thinking there will be a lot of people looking forward to "tomorrow"... Can't wait to see him get outta this one....


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

NCBuckNBass said:


> KS is posting over on bowsite...........( throwing hamburger to the junkyard dog)


Sorry I am not a member there. Nor plan on being one.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tsilvers said:


> Get over it... your boy duped a bunch of people and there pissed.... boohoo...
> 
> Thinking there will be a lot of people looking forward to "tomorrow"... Can't wait to see him get outta this one....


lol


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## jmote54 (Oct 14, 2014)

Somehow a truckload of people with over 5 grand in archery equipment moaning and groaning about 31 bucks just doesn't seem right. I'm sure we've all wasted way more than that on a gimmick.


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## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

R1STEER said:


> Did you run a background check on someone that disagreed with N&B's tuning methods to have ammo to smear this person if they did it again? My apologies to you if I misunderstood your posts. If I understood correctly, well, I don't know what to say. That would seem far worse than any of the ridiculous N&B bashing that has been happening since the DVD release.


you, sir, are absolutely correct!


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

NCBuckNBass said:


> KS is posting over on bowsite...........( throwing hamburger to the junkyard dog) Hurry....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! before he gets away.
> 
> Just remember that chain is 31 feet long.


lmao. Way to edit after the fact as its clear your not quick enough to come up with something right off the bat. Smh


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

tsilvers said:


> and you flame others for lacking integrity... right on...lol..



I leveled the playing field.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

whack n stack said:


> I leveled the playing field.


Sure... if that's how you see it...


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## NCBuckNBass (Mar 5, 2005)

nhns4 said:


> lmao. Way to edit after the fact as its clear your not quick enough to come up with something right off the bat. Smh


Blame AT's servers and your lack of anything substantial. My genius is always in a state of flux anyway when I have to dumb it down for some. I wish you would cut me some slack................I'm cooling the jets of about half a dozen similar posters as you on a plethora of forums simultaneously. Sorry I didn't give you my special attention this past post. Here..............I hope this wipes the snot away.


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

NCBuckNBass said:


> Blame AT's servers and your lack of anything substantial. My genius is always in a state of flux anyway when I have to dumb it down for some. I wish you would cut me some slack................I'm cooling the jets of about half a dozen similar posters as you on a plethora of forums simultaneously. Sorry I didn't give you my special attention this past post. Here..............I hope this wipes the snot away.
> 
> View attachment 2148053


Plethora? I would assume you mean more than 2. 3 if i decide to stop in EAF. Plethora may be a little exageration.


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## Bdamn808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Tradbow Guy said:


> Most of what you say may be true but "Its JUST 31$" isnt a valid argument. Thats a lot of money to some people. Might be someones entire disposable income for a month.


Than why shoot archery???? People like that should be getting better jobs not focusing on a hobby that cost a lot of money... And if your disposable income is $31 a month than why are you buying a nuts and bolts DVD? Just ask some memeber here they'll give you A lot of useless information and grief for shooting the bow you shoot lol this site is becoming a joke


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Bdamn808 said:


> Than why shoot archery???? People like that should be getting better jobs not focusing on a hobby that cost a lot of money... And if your disposable income is $31 a month than why are you buying a nuts and bolts DVD? Just ask some memeber here they'll give you A lot of useless information and grief for shooting the bow you shoot lol this site is becoming a joke


Your right if your not rich you dont deserve to enjoy life or a hobby. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## Bdamn808 (Nov 20, 2013)

nhns4 said:


> But i would venture to say he didnt need to spend thousands on one as he claimed. Video cameras are for movement. He has still images. Heck any smart phone can take stellar pictures. Computer software is all he needed to add his voice.
> I could care less either way but aside from 1 post of his is was misleading.


Regardless of what he said if he did buy all that stuff he said he bought he spent way more money to make this DVD... you people should be lucky he decided to make this thing.. If that was me and I found out I could not make it the way I wanted to I would give up.. But he wanted to help people and decided to release and version that was easy understand as stated in his last post about the DVD..... Now excuse me while I print my stamp to send my bow to some tuner in some other state... Now when it comes in I won't be able to recreate the groups that he shot at 60 years because my form is no where near what his is but that's ok I'll show all my friends at the range the groups he shot and dream about me shooting those groups...


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## Bdamn808 (Nov 20, 2013)

I'm not rich I have a very low disposable income $200.... But imma tell you now if you only have $31 you should not be enjoying a hobby that cost a lot of money.... But than again $31 desposable incomes is a joke right I hope you wasn't serious when you stated that...


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Bdamn808 said:


> I'm not rich I have a very low disposable income $200.... But imma tell you now if you only have $31 you should not be enjoying a hobby that cost a lot of money.... But than again $31 desposable incomes is a joke right I hope you wasn't serious when you stated that...


Archery costs a lot of money? Only if you spend a lot of money on it. You can buy a non gimick older model bow for pretty darned cheap and have all the fun in the world without buying a new 1500$ bow every year because its 3fps faster.


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## 9273brian (Apr 18, 2011)

All this talk on the video and none of you could predict what it was going to be after reading his numerous posts on here. This guy has spent his time helping numerous archers and is very good at it. I will give him that. But his ability to communicate (Normal) I guess you could say is lacking. His method of speaking or "typing" on here has given me the indication that even though he has no end to his archery knowledge that he has alot of trouble communicating that knowledge to where everyone can understand it. He goes into too much detail for you and I as most of us just want the best information to get our equipment and ourselves shooting the best we can. Anyone who has seen his long answer to a simple question could have predicted what he was going to put out.


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Bdamn808 said:


> Regardless of what he said if he did buy all that stuff he said he bought he spent way more money to make this DVD... you people should be lucky he decided to make this thing.. If that was me and I found out I could not make it the way I wanted to I would give up.. But he wanted to help people and decided to release and version that was easy understand as stated in his last post about the DVD..... Now excuse me while I print my stamp to send my bow to some tuner in some other state... Now when it comes in I won't be able to recreate the groups that he shot at 60 years because my form is no where near what his is but that's ok I'll show all my friends at the range the groups he shot and dream about me shooting those groups...


Feel better now?


----------



## nick060200 (Jul 5, 2010)

NCBuckNBass said:


> My take on all this:
> 
> There are quite a few very jealous guys on here that wished they had the following and respect Alan earned. Most of them have already posted in the two threads. Enjoy your short moment in the sun.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you said except nuts and bolts didn't create the original pdf.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

nick060200 said:


> I agree with everything you said except nuts and bolts didn't create the original pdf.


you mean he didn't even create the original PDF?


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## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

I've helped people here too. Maybe I can sell some kind of cheap-o trinket that I can make look good with bad lighting and charge $3 a piece. But people won't care because I've helped them in the past. Brilliant!!!


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## dhom (Jun 10, 2008)

nicko said:


> I've helped people here too. Maybe I can sell some kind of cheap-o trinket that I can make look good with bad lighting and charge $3 a piece. But people won't care because I've helped them in the past. Brilliant!!!


Hehehehehehehehe!!!!


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## crazy4bucks (Jan 21, 2009)

Am I the only one who saw the post of a bunch of N&B quotes stating that he was gonna pull an new bow from the box and do full setup and tuning of different cam systems on the video? Might have been on the original thread. The DVD clearly isn't what he told people it would be.


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

But it was only $31 dollars so relax. You are paying for the wealth of information he has posted in the past. So it doesn't matter f the DVD is not exactly what he had said he was going to produce. Now take your hard earned money and go buy a funky chicken. ALL SARCASM!!!!!


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

crazy4bucks said:


> Am I the only one who saw the post of a bunch of N&B quotes stating that he was gonna pull an new bow from the box and do full setup and tuning of different cam systems on the video? Might have been on the original thread. The DVD clearly isn't what he told people it would be.


Doesn't matter what you tell people.... since when does that mean anything...


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## grander (Mar 19, 2009)

The butt hurt is reaching record levels.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

I hope nutsandbolts sells millions of his DVD'd, gets rich and buys Archerytalk then bans all you keyboard crybabies. 

Then I hope he sues all that has defamed him...makes no difference if he wins or not because the cost to defend yourselves would be like winning for him anyway. 

And remember if he sells a few million of them, who ever wants to sue him for whatever reason...he has already made plenty of money to defend himself!

Jesus...get over it! I have spent $31.00 x 100 over the years buying worthless, broke, junk, etc. archery stuff that did not work or was not what I expected. Some of the stuff had lifetime guarantees, but guess what there was no company left to honor it when needed. All went out of business or bankrupt!

I was not going to order his DVD but now I am for sure because of "voice over" and I can keep all his information in one spot.


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

^^ don't think you get the point. It was false advertising


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## nick060200 (Jul 5, 2010)

tsilvers said:


> you mean he didn't even create the original PDF?


no, it was a few years ago so i dont remember the members name, but he was new at the time and took all of N&B posts and started to create a PDF that organized all the information. I do remember for a fact, him emailing me the copy. Im not sure at what point N&B got involved with helping or not.


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## Chadrap (Dec 2, 2013)

jgss2 said:


> You tube. Do a google search for Griv "Thing a week"


This guy is good. Thanks for the Intel.


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

markdenis said:


> I hope nutsandbolts sells millions of his DVD'd, gets rich and buys Archerytalk then bans all you keyboard crybabies.
> 
> Then I hope he sues all that has defamed him...makes no difference if he wins or not because the cost to defend yourselves would be like winning for him anyway.
> 
> ...


After this mess I don't think he'll sell a 1000 just saying


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## jgss2 (Dec 14, 2004)

Chadrap said:


> This guy is good. Thanks for the Intel.


Yep. I really enjoy his stuff.


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

markdenis said:


> I hope nutsandbolts sells millions of his DVD'd, gets rich and buys Archerytalk then bans all you keyboard crybabies.
> 
> Then I hope he sues all that has defamed him...makes no difference if he wins or not because the cost to defend yourselves would be like winning for him anyway.
> 
> ...


Maybe if you would have looked at reviews you would still have that money. Just because you bought into all that junk doesn't make us stupid. Only you.


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## nick060200 (Jul 5, 2010)

crazy4bucks said:


> Am I the only one who saw the post of a bunch of N&B quotes stating that he was gonna pull an new bow from the box and do full setup and tuning of different cam systems on the video? Might have been on the original thread. The DVD clearly isn't what he told people it would be.


you are correct, there are a few guys here that are pretty savvy with finding old posts/threads. Im not. i also remember a picture of a skeleton that would be used in a science lab, that he said he was gonna use to show proper form and how he was working on contraptions to make it work correctly. I dont have the DVD, but im curious if that is in there?


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## jhall239 (Oct 4, 2011)

I guess its true there are hyenas living in the US after all and a bunch here on AT

Upuntil this post started I have never seen a negative comment about N&B
one somebody has a bad experience and swoosh........................................


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## nick060200 (Jul 5, 2010)

jhall239 said:


> I guess its true there are hyenas living in the US after all and a bunch here on AT
> 
> Upuntil this post started I have never seen a negative comment about N&B
> one somebody has a bad experience and swoosh........................................


there was a thread last year where people started jumping on him, they started getting bashed pretty bad and the thread died.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

Pittstate23 said:


> ^^ don't think you get the point. It was false advertising


Baloney!!

I have bought bows from about every manufacturer and none of them reach their advertised speed.

I have bought plenty of arrow that the spine was not what they advertised.

I have bought numerous points that did not fit.

I have bought strings that were supposed to be the best in the world that were pure junk....need I go on?


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

What a despicable and vile bunch you lot are. You seem to love to eat your own. You should all be truly be ashamed of yourselves. Tragedy is most of you wont be.


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## Mauritian (Sep 30, 2014)

Looks like NB has as many supporters as detractors.


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## mosh22 (Jan 21, 2014)

3 threads of this stuff and all I can think of is the Kid in Christmas Story.

He waits forever for the secret decoder ring, get the item, tunes in for the code at the end of the show...
Be sure to drink your......
OVALTINE??


He is dumbfounded at the un importance of the content.......chucked in trash....
Lmao

I have been here a short time, and the amount of interest I saw in the dvd coming out was very heavy.
I would have upset with the result myself. His post are informitive, but also very annoying.
No way I would have paid for that type of presentation.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

markdenis said:


> Baloney!!
> 
> I have bought bows from about every manufacturer and none of them reach their advertised speed.
> 
> ...


well... sue them... lol...amazed how gullible and loyal some of the nuts followers are... I think if he told ya'll to throw ur bows off a bridge cuz they'd shoot better.. u would ..


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

It doesn't matter what he did in the past or what he is going to do in the future. He advertised a product and is selling a product that is not what he said it was going to be. Read all the old posts. It clearly says it's going to be a mix of video and stills with step by step instruction. Now if you want to call a video of still photos a blue ray quality DVD then you can happily give him your money. He may be a wealth of knowledge but his DVD fell short of what was advertised. There is no arguing that. But to come on here and say he's a great guy and everything he has done in the past should trump what is happening now is just ridiculous. Friends protect friends, I get that. But to not admit that the DVD is not what was advertised is like saying to an alcoholic there is no problem, you just like to drink.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

tsilvers said:


> well... sue them... lol...amazed how gullible and loyal some of the nuts followers are... I think if he told ya'll to throw ur bows off a bridge cuz they'd shoot better.. u would ..


Actually I am not a nutsandbolts admirer at all. I think he generates some interesting comments in archery, some I agree with and some I don't. Whether good or bad, the effort he has put forth to many on this site to help people is beyond comparison. 

Ya, he probably did not advertise his product right, but who does anymore. Everybody makes the best, the one that lasts the longest, the one that is the fastest. 

If you want your money back, ask for it...I bet he returns it.

If you did not buy one, why would you have a right to defame him?

I bought a Martin bow new a few years ago that fell a full 20 fps short of their advertised speed. Maybe I should rant and rave forever and defame them and sue them!

Oh wait, now I will get comments on...your procedure to test it was off, your cronograph was off, your scales were off and a bunch more for sure.

Archery items are false advertised all the time.


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

Last summer I bought a Specialty peep Verifier. I used it a month I took it off and tossed it in my bow box of other stuff I have bought and not liked. The Specialty peep Verifiers are a great product and used by many, it just didn't work for me "it didn't do what I thought it would". I didn't write the company or post on here they were terrible. I think this DVD is the same, it was 25 bucks after all not 100 or more. After 20 years of videoing weddings and events I can say it takes a lot of time, equipment and experience to make a quality product like it sounds everyone expected. If you want your money back make it between you and him, not posted here. I think it was a lesson learned by many, let it go and go have a nice breakfast at Bob Evans, there goes another 25 bucks. Let's get back to putting down each others bows, I miss that!


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

If I were him, I wouldn't return money. Last time I went to a theatre and didn't like the movie I never received a refund.


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

markdenis said:


> Baloney!!
> 
> I have bought bows from about every manufacturer and none of them reach their advertised speed.
> 
> ...


Read below, the guy is "filming", using "remote control video shots", "two video system", "wants to do it right, so using a boom crane for video". All of this advertisement for his "video" then he ships a bunch of guys a slide show. He mentioned before that it was going to be "blue ray quality". i understand maybe you've bought products like you claim and they were a bit out of spec, but i bet you've never bought carbon arrows and then turns out they are made from wood. I bet you've never bought a compound bow and it turns out to be a recurve. I bet the strings you bought, while maybe not good quality, were still bow strings. This guy advertised that he was selling a video and ranted and raved about thousands of dollars of "video equipment", boom poles, two video cam systems, etc, and then produces a slideshow. Your comparing apples to oranges. You bought things that deviated a bit from spec but were still the same product that you thought you were buying. Alan advertised a video, then shipped a slideshow. 

Script notes to myself,
so I don't forget what to cover
when filming

Need the crane for the remote control video shots,
for the overhead views.

One man show. Doing the video work myself, two video cam system, with wireless remote control.

gotta do this right, so building that boom crane so I can do a proper overhead shot (still and video).


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

jimb said:


> If I were him, I wouldn't return money. Last time I went to a theatre and didn't like the movie I never received a refund.


you paid for a movie and got a movie. you didn't pay for a movie and get a pictures with voiceovers.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

jimb said:


> If I were him, I wouldn't return money. Last time I went to a theatre and didn't like the movie I never received a refund.


Didn't about every bow company this year advertise the most innovative, ground breaking bow in the history of archery ready to be released?


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## grander (Mar 19, 2009)

I guess he doesn't read his notes?


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

jimb said:


> If I were him, I wouldn't return money. Last time I went to a theatre and didn't like the movie I never received a refund.


But had the movie been shown in black and white, would you have ask for a refund? Sure, the content would have been the same, but not what you expected going in.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Pittstate23 said:


> Read below, the guy is "filming", using "remote control video shots", "two video system", "wants to do it right, so using a boom crane for video". All of this advertisement for his "video" then he ships a bunch of guys a slide show. He mentioned before that it was going to be "blue ray quality". i understand maybe you've bought products like you claim and they were a bit out of spec, but i bet you've never bought carbon arrows and then turns out they are made from wood. I bet you've never bought a compound bow and it turns out to be a recurve. I bet the strings you bought, while maybe not good quality, were still bow strings. This guy advertised that he was selling a video and ranted and raved about thousands of dollars of "video equipment", boom poles, two video cam systems, etc, and then produces a slideshow. Your comparing apples to oranges. You bought things that deviated a bit from spec but were still the same product that you thought you were buying. Alan advertised a video, then shipped a slideshow.
> 
> Script notes to myself,
> so I don't forget what to cover
> ...


If you don''t wan't the DVD then don't buy it. You've never overcommitted yourself on a project huh?


----------



## zwalls (Apr 16, 2006)

I haven't seen the DVD or met Alan in person so I can't personally speak for either. I ordered the DVD and I'm going to watch it and keep it no matter what. it's ironic how things can change so fast around here. those who say they have attended a seminar by Alan say he was a wealth of knowledge, and those who have gained from his help here on AT also thought the same thing. now he made a DVD that didn't meet the expectations of many and all of a sudden the guy is an idiot and doesn't know anything about archery:noidea:

I don't think it's wrong to express one's disappointment in something but bashing someone the way ppl are doing here is disturbing. and now the so called super tuners coming out of the woodwork to jump on the band wagon to make themselves look good. it's doing just the opposite to me. I, for the first time sent one of my new bows to a so called super tuner a couple yrs ago that everyone was raving about,who no longer does this anymore,paid way more than $31 dollars for this service, and all I got was a new set of strings that within a couple of months the strings has stretched so much that, with my limbs maxed out all I could get was 64lbs on a digital scale. I ran out of room to twist cables and string and could not get it into specs. guess what, now I'm buying a new set of strings and cables from winners choice who I've had great experience with in the past and problem fixed. 2yrs later those winners choice cables and string are still on my bow and in spec. 

all together I spent about $231 between the so called super tuner who just put a set of his own strings on and having to buy another set. but, I didn't come on AT and bash the crap out of this member or even bash or complain about his so called super tuning. I learned a lesson and moved on. I will "NEVER" send my bow to another so called super tuner on here because of that one experience. I will continue to put new cables and strings on myself and continue to tune my own bow.

with that said I'm way more confident in Alan than any super tuner of AT member jumping on the band wagon to bash him and not the DVD they are disappointed in. I bet 90% of the bashers on here wouldn't have the balls to back up what they say with a keyboard face to face!! anonymity is so powerful. have some respect ppl, quite crying in your freakin cheereos and move on:doh:


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

Pittstate23 said:


> Read below, the guy is "filming", using "remote control video shots", "two video system", "wants to do it right, so using a boom crane for video". All of this advertisement for his "video" then he ships a bunch of guys a slide show. He mentioned before that it was going to be "blue ray quality". i understand maybe you've bought products like you claim and they were a bit out of spec, but i bet you've never bought carbon arrows and then turns out they are made from wood. I bet you've never bought a compound bow and it turns out to be a recurve. I bet the strings you bought, while maybe not good quality, were still bow strings. This guy advertised that he was selling a video and ranted and raved about thousands of dollars of "video equipment", boom poles, two video cam systems, etc, and then produces a slideshow. Your comparing apples to oranges. You bought things that deviated a bit from spec but were still the same product that you thought you were buying. Alan advertised a video, then shipped a slideshow.
> 
> Script notes to myself,
> so I don't forget what to cover
> ...


I think you got me wrong. I am not defending him or defaming him. I am saying the business of archery is a constant false advertising folly. nutsandbolts seem to fit right in.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

markdenis said:


> I think you got it me wrong. I am not defending him or defaming him. I am saying the business of archery is a constant false advertising folly. nutsandbolts seem to fit right in.


well.. accept it and move on.... seems ur having a hard time with this. ...


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> If you don''t wan't the DVD then don't buy it. You've never overcommitted yourself on a project huh?



I won't, i have 2 friends that got burnt on it, and i watched it. If i overcommitted myself i wouldn't short paying customers their product that i advertised i was gonna sell to them.


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

markdenis said:


> I think you got me wrong. I am not defending him or defaming him. I am saying the business of archery is a constant false advertising folly. nutsandbolts seem to fit right in.



pretty sure i heard you right when you replied to my comment "baloney"


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## Bowtoons (Jan 4, 2008)

Perhaps this may have been a less expensive way for him to do it?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Anybody notice what is conspicuously missing from this thread? I had not before last night. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2232402


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

Pittstate23 said:


> pretty sure i heard you right when you replied to my comment "baloney"


Maybe you did not understand my position on this. About every aspect of this sport has some false advertising involved. I have listed a very small portion of it.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

tmorelli said:


> Anybody notice what is conspicuously missing from this thread? I had not before last night.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2232402


yea... sure do...


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## 45er (Jan 18, 2009)

I guess this thread will eventually be classified as "viral" before it's all over with. From what I can gather from reading through the gist of this is:

_Nuts & Bolts has graciously helped many people here on AT
He is very knowledgeable on the topic of bow tuning
He has promoted the release of a DVD that fell way short of many buyers' expectations
He appears to be refunding $ to those people who civilly request him to do so_

I don't know the whole story, but I can't believe that N&B knowingly and willfully cheated people. That type of person just doesn't freely offer their time and knowledge to so many people here on AT as he has done. However, having said this, it does appear to me that he got overly carried away and over-promoted his product to the extent that he described techniques and equipment he was going to use that obviously were not needed to produce his product.

I have no doubt that the DVD is packed with good information. I also don't believe $31 breaks anyone's bank here on AT. If they had enough money to buy a modern compound that can be super-tuned, they can afford $31. *But, *, having seen these threads, I will not buy the DVD as I had planned to do. If I want a movie and someone sends me the book instead, I would not be satisfied. Had N&B clearly described to prospective customers what they would be getting, my expectation is that he still would have sold a lot of DVD's and would have avoided this hailstorm of criticism on AT.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

45er said:


> I guess this thread will eventually be classified as "viral" before it's all over with. From what I can gather from reading through the gist of this is:
> 
> _Nuts & Bolts has graciously helped many people here on AT
> He is very knowledgeable on the topic of bow tuning
> ...


I think nuts let his ego get the best of him and made a very poor decision that will no doubt affect his credibility.... and for that.. I think one can blame all the leg humpers who hoisted him up on his pedestal.... yep.. the very ones who are defending his actions now...Seems the guy got a little arrogant and figured he was pooping out golden nuggets every time he opened his mouth as his fanboys fanatical response only reinforced his self belief.. armed with the ego and attitude it appears nuts figured he could publish a turd and the masses would still eat it up... my guess is the plan failed...


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## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

tmorelli said:


> I think we've talked about my opinion of "why" in the past.... The cult like following that deemed him infallible. The refusal to respond to questioning or debate/defend a topic.
> 
> In my opinion, there were an alarming number of negative reviews on direct dealings for paid services (not related to the DVD) with Alan that came out in a short period of time in the original thread and some in this one. That leads me to believe frustration has been building underground for some time. I'm not sure why this was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it appears to be.


Herein lies the real problem IMO^^^

Let me preface everything I'm going to say with "I have no dog in this fight and I'm not picking sides". 

When I first starting read stuff on here I really enjoyed some of N&B's stuff. I still do enjoy "some" of it. However,I also started to notice guys being rail roaded out of threads who were also offering up very good info. Posters blatantly saying to ignore these guys. I found it a little odd to be honest. I don't jump into those threads very often so I sat back and watched. I decided to do a little research on the guys who were run off of threads. Turns out some are archery coaches, some have had pro shops for years, some I found pictures of standing on podiums with big Happy Gilmore checks signed by the likes of PSE, Mathews, and Hoyt, some have their own "stickies" in the brand specific forums and so on. So basically what I'm getting at is that these guys could have helped just as much or possibly more in certain scenarios but were literally blasted by folks when they posted even the slightest disagreement with the advice being offered. The tipping point or point of surrender seemed to come from a thread that the name escapes me but advice was given to check 3rd axis, it was about as left field a reply as could be imagined. Some questioned this and asked for an explanation, none was given, zip, zero, zilch, when some of these guys insisted on further explanation/discussion the fan base went rabid and ripped into a few of these guys. Then the thread spiraled out of control and both sides got a little classless with the comments. After that point it seems a lot the people posting in that thread pretty much gave up trying to help or post in the general forum.

I don't truly think N&B was trying to rip people off, I do believe his ego got the best of him though. I also commend him for refunding the guys who felt they deserved one.

I am appreciative of his contributions as his info has helped me but so have a lot of these other guys who were unfairly cast as "villains" and I'm appreciative of their contributions also.

As for the DVD, yes it clearly was over hyped...was it done deliberately? Don't know, don't care at this point.

One more thing, the logic of "it's only $31" is absurd... When gasoline was $4 a gallon why was the whole country crying??? After all it's only 4 stinking little measly dollars that AT members have no issue with just throwing away. 


That is just my unbiased account of a lot events that have led to this particular situation. Take it FWIW....


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Well, this is just one of many tragic threads on AT that demonstrates once again in a negative light the mob rules mentality. I bought the DVD, have not seen it yet. I have no reason to defend Alan, as he isn't a friend, even someone I've interacted with. And I would not defend him because I bought the DVD. What I do find sad, and troubling, is how many people resort to claims of "liar, criminal, thief, scum, etc." that are personal attacks on Alan's integrity. And my guess is many of those making the claims have never met or interacted with him, and are just piling on like they did in junior high in thier little cliques. 

Alan was also a sponsor on AT, one of the many reason the IBAs can sit behind the keyboard and attack in anonymity without getting thier ass kicked.

Sickening.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

tmorelli said:


> In the original thread, I found nothing more perplexing than the dirty laundry aired by attendees of the Lancaster show. Surely, you know Rob....and since you both hosted seminars, wouldn't there have been some sharing?
> 
> How did those customers in PA have such a different POV than you are reporting?





Absolute Archer said:


> Good point, but the better ? is why did they take so long to tell us there dislikes? Why did they not start a thread right after they got home with all the emotions fresh in there heads?
> 
> And yes I know Rob but we have never talked about Alan or the seminars.


I know 2 folks that attended his "seminars." Both said the same thing, let down, waste of money. I asked both, why not give a review on AT? Both had the same response.....and get attacked by the minions that have set N&B up as a deity? No thanks. I can hardly blame them.



Fury90flier said:


> I don't see how a refund would be in order here...the DVD is exactly what he said it would be...basically, the PDF in DVD format....isn't that what everyone is getting.
> 
> When I found out that the DVD was the PDF file, at first I was disappointed...then I grew up. I figured I'd be helping a fellow AT'r out and would have it as reference. At worst case, I'd be able to give it to some young new shooter.
> 
> I still don't see where he lied to anyone...no one has yet to provide any evidence of that---please provide evidence of a lie...those that think he lied


No, it is not exactly what he said it would be. Professional lighting, multi-cameras, jibs (boom cranes are used for lifting heavy objects on construction sights, not for cameras), a complete assembly of a bow out of the box, Blu-Ray quality, videos from his seminars, the infamous skeleton showing proper bone alignment, etc, etc, etc......hardly exactly as advertised.

Read this thread, and then let me know if it is exactly as advertised: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2175664&p=1069270726#post1069270726



crazy4bucks said:


> Am I the only one who saw the post of a bunch of N&B quotes stating that he was gonna pull an new bow from the box and do full setup and tuning of different cam systems on the video? Might have been on the original thread. The DVD clearly isn't what he told people it would be.


Nope, not the only one.


nick060200 said:


> you are correct, there are a few guys here that are pretty savvy with finding old posts/threads. Im not. i also remember a picture of a skeleton that would be used in a science lab, that he said he was gonna use to show proper form and how he was working on contraptions to make it work correctly. I dont have the DVD, but im curious if that is in there?


Can't find the skeleton post for some reason.....but he yes, he did say it would be there.



Absolute Archer said:


> Alan tried several different methods and did what HE thought worked the best. It's a little hard to do a video with no camera man.


And just yesterday I setup a 5 camera shoot to do an instructional video for my company on using and operating the 24 new Live Trucks we just received across the country.....by myself. Today someone is going to do it again in Spanish, since I do work for a Spanish broadcaster. These days in Television most stations have reporters that run video cameras by themselves, including multi-camera live shots.......not really that hard to be honest. Heck, look on youtube at some of the "amateur" hunting videos that are being produced with multi-cameras.......there is some really good stuff being produced by folks with multi-cameras, shooting by themselves.



tmorelli said:


> I think we've talked about my opinion of "why" in the past.... The cult like following that deemed him infallible. The refusal to respond to questioning or debate/defend a topic.
> 
> In my opinion, there were an alarming number of negative reviews on direct dealings for paid services (not related to the DVD) with Alan that came out in a short period of time in the original thread and some in this one. That leads me to believe frustration has been building underground for some time. I'm not sure why this was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it appears to be.


My beef has usually been fairly simple. A good bit of his advice over the years has been a regurgitation of someone else's thoughts. Originally everything I read from him sounded like it came straight from Bernie....and then I would see him at shoots working in Bernie's booth. Then, Coach Lee comes to take over US Archery, and suddenly everything he is teaching is the BEST Method...wait, Power Triangle he was calling it....that was being taught by Coach Lee. Lately, Coach Lee has changed/modified the BEST method...and whamo, so has N&B.........much of his "teaching" has been....try this, and if you see improvements great, if not, let's try something else. Question him on anything, and as you say, he rarely wants to discuss or debate it.....and then the minions attack for questioning the almighty.

For anyone to say the DVD is what was advertised is being naïve, it is a far cry from what was advertised.


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## fire2201 (Apr 29, 2009)

I haven't received the dvd yet, can't comment on it, but by reading all these posts sounds like a lot of guys got there's already


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

crazy4bucks said:


> Am I the only one who saw the post of a bunch of N&B quotes stating that he was gonna pull an new bow from the box and do full setup and tuning of different cam systems on the video? Might have been on the original thread. The DVD clearly isn't what he told people it would be.


Nope your not. If that included then it could be call a Video.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

bucco921 said:


> One more thing, the logic of "it's only $31" is absurd... When gasoline was $4 a gallon why was the whole country crying??? After all it's only 4 stinking little measly dollars that AT members have no issue with just throwing away.


No it really does matter. Anyone who has been on AT for a while, and read Alan's posts, and who knows anything at all about video, audio, and photo production and exepected a professional quality DVD was just setting themselves up for disappointment. Like many said they were "hoping" or "expecting" something different. I'm not. Because I have a brain and a little bit of experience in digital production. And it is only $31, which is relevant when you are throwing another human under the bus, who I do beleive had the best of intentions even if his execution was poor. Relative to what folks on AT spend on crazy stuff -- little pieces of colored rubber, Ozonics, Sitka, etc. a $31 instructional DVD isn't material. Your gas comment doesn't make sense. Because I have to spend that daily to get to work...


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## thwacker (Dec 25, 2009)

tmorelli said:


> Anybody notice what is conspicuously missing from this thread? I had not before last night.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2232402


Pretty obvious....lol


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

I will also say....I had several good friends ask me about buying the video. My advice to them was....wait and see. By reading his statements about editing, codecs, transcoding, etc, etc, etc....I had a fairly good idea he was in way over his head.


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## sean1 (Dec 5, 2009)

thwacker said:


> Pretty obvious....lol


I hoped it would be without bashing him.


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## inactiveuser23 (Dec 8, 2014)

One of the funniest things I keep laughing at is all the kool-aid drinkers who paid MORE than the asking price, LMAO.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

sean1 said:


> I hoped it would be without bashing him.


It was......


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

I found it...the skeleton prop......

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2308302


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Let me also say.......

I don't think it was his intent to steal, fool, deceive, or defraud folks of money. He was just in way over his head on what he was trying to do, and fell way short of what he said he was producing.


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## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> No it really does matter. Anyone who has been on AT for a while, and read Alan's posts, and who knows anything at all about video, audio, and photo production and exepected a professional quality DVD was just setting themselves up for disappointment. Like many said they were "hoping" or "expecting" something different. I'm not. Because I have a brain and a little bit of experience in digital production. And it is only $31, which is relevant when you are throwing another human under the bus, who I do beleive had the best of intentions even if his execution was poor. Relative to what folks on AT spend on crazy stuff -- little pieces of colored rubber, Ozonics, Sitka, etc. a $31 instructional DVD isn't material. Your gas comment doesn't make sense. Because I have to spend that daily to get to work...


First things first, I've never bashed him. Secondly nothing you've posted in any of these threads about the money make sense. The point of my comment was it's the "principle" not the monetary value. So when claims are made of blu ray quality, 1,000's in video equipment and software, boom cranes, crazy lighting it's the consumers fault for being mad they didn't receive that???


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

bucco921 said:


> First things first, I've never bashed him. Secondly nothing you've posted in any of these threads about the money make sense. The point of my comment was it's the "principle" not the monetary value. So when claims are made of blu ray quality, 1,000's in video equipment and software, boom cranes, crazy lighting it's the consumers fault for being mad they didn't receive that???


I never said you bashed him, and I think when I say it was "31 bucks" that makes sense. It means it was $31 bucks. As for the priniciple, I agree with you, and I believe that Alan really did want to deliver that...I'm guessing he got in way over his head...the point of my comment is that a lot of people had seriously inflated expectations and for $31 and that, they are going to crucify another archer...


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

GrooGrux said:


> One of the funniest things I keep laughing at is all the kool-aid drinkers who paid MORE than the asking price, LMAO.


Ya those stupid people being courteous to another AT member! Dang them!


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

OK, I'm about to put down my iPad and go get some breakfast. Those jackwagon's at Goldberg's better hope that they don't overcook my bacon on my $8 breakfast sandwich, because those pictures on the menu show that thing PERFECT. And that $2.50 cup of coffee better be perfect too...or I'm going to post on Yelp what a bunch of liars and cheats they are! Little biotches, mess with me I tell you...


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## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I never said you bashed him, and I think when I say it was "31 bucks" that makes sense. It means it was $31 bucks. As for the priniciple, I agree with you, and I believe that Alan really did want to deliver that...I'm guessing he got in way over his head...the point of my comment is that a lot of people had seriously inflated expectations and for $31 and that, they are going to crucify another archer...


Thank you for the respectful reply, I truly appreciate it. I'm only trying to say that when people read the things being stated like blu ray, cameras, lighting etc I don't think it's fair to say they are being unreasonable. When the sales thread was 10,000 pages long I don't think it's fair to assume somebody will read through every page to find the comments where it was stated that it was just going to be a PDF on DVD. Thats all.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

bucco921 said:


> Thank you for the respectful reply, I truly appreciate it. I'm only trying to say that when people read the things being stated like blu ray, cameras, lighting etc I don't think it's fair to say they are being unreasonable. When the sales thread was 10,000 pages long I don't think it's fair to assume somebody will read through every page to find the comments where it was stated that it was just going to be a PDF on DVD. Thats all.


No worries. We're both right. It's an all around sad situation for AT where archers should be helping archers...it's why I came here...but I often wonder why I stay here...at some point the bad may just outweight the good...hope not...


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> No it really does matter. Anyone who has been on AT for a while, and read Alan's posts, and who knows anything at all about video, audio, and photo production and exepected a professional quality DVD was just setting themselves up for disappointment. Like many said they were "hoping" or "expecting" something different. I'm not. Because I have a brain and a little bit of experience in digital production. And it is only $31, which is relevant when you are throwing another human under the bus, who I do beleive had the best of intentions even if his execution was poor. Relative to what folks on AT spend on crazy stuff -- little pieces of colored rubber, Ozonics, Sitka, etc. a $31 instructional DVD isn't material. Your gas comment doesn't make sense. Because I have to spend that daily to get to work...


Lol! What if the pump says you're getting 10 gallons for 40 bucks, but in reality is was only 8? No biggie, it was only 2 gallons short, right?
What about the guy that sold some shafts with a few loose and torn vanes not long ago? You drug that guy through he mud over and over, and were talking pennies. :zip:


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

frog gigger said:


> Lol! What if the pump says you're getting 10 gallons for 40 bucks, but in reality is was only 8? No biggie, it was only 2 gallons short, right?
> What about the guy that sold some shafts with a few loose and torn vanes not long ago? You drug that guy through he mud over and over, and were talking pennies. :zip:


Gigger I'm pretty sure that the State Tax Commision ensures you get what you pay for at the pump, and I have no idea what you are talking about on the arrows...I never drug anyone through the mud...


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> No it really does matter. Anyone who has been on AT for a while, and read Alan's posts, and who knows anything at all about video, audio, and photo production and exepected a professional quality DVD was just setting themselves up for disappointment. Like many said they were "hoping" or "expecting" something different. I'm not. Because I have a brain and a little bit of experience in digital production. And it is only $31, which is relevant when you are throwing another human under the bus, who I do beleive had the best of intentions even if his execution was poor. Relative to what folks on AT spend on crazy stuff -- little pieces of colored rubber, Ozonics, Sitka, etc. a $31 instructional DVD isn't material. Your gas comment doesn't make sense. Because I have to spend that daily to get to work...



other were "expecting" a "video" because alan said he was making a "video". He claimed to be using "cranes" in his "video" and "remote control video shots". His "two video cam system" and "wireless remote controls" that he claimed to be using in his "video" were obviously not there. He advertised "blue ray quality". I get it , maybe the guy isn't gifted at videography. maybe he decided he can't hack it making videos. thats all understandable, but whats not is why he didn't just say, "I stink at making videos so I'm gonna sell you guys a slide show". People were only expecting what they were told by the manufacturer they would be buying. Its pretty simple, the guy claimed to have spend all this money on fancy video equipment to produce a blue ray quality video, and then sends a slide show to consumers. I would have respected him if he would have been up front and said I'm sending a measly slide show, or if he would have sent a not so good video. Read again below

Script notes to myself,
so I don't forget what to cover
when filming

Need the crane for the remote control video shots,
for the overhead views.

One man show. Doing the video work myself, two video cam system, with wireless remote control.

gotta do this right, so building that boom crane so I can do a proper overhead shot (still and video).


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## Ruperto36 (Sep 11, 2013)

I like chicken. Since everybody else has to make a comment I thought I would throw one in too.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Ruperto36 said:


> I like chicken. Since everybody else has to make a comment I thought I would throw one in too.


I believe it's "I like turtles!" Do we have to start a peeing match now? Lol


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I never said you bashed him, and I think when I say it was "31 bucks" that makes sense. It means it was $31 bucks. As for the priniciple, I agree with you, and I believe that Alan really did want to deliver that...I'm guessing he got in way over his head...the point of my comment is that a lot of people had seriously inflated expectations and for $31 and that, they are going to crucify another archer...


You contradict yourself. Nobody had inflated expectations. When you advertise boom cranes, double video recorders, hd cameras, digital audio, what do you expect to get? Not a bunch of still photos with audio overlays. That can be made with a smart phone and some simple editing software from a computer. He set the price and advertised it. No one said I'll offer you $31 for it. And in your argument you say he just got in over his head. So that is suppose to make it okay for everyone? The worst part is we are here going back and forth and he hasn't even commented on any of this. Not an I'm sorry it wasn't what I said it would be. Or this is exactly what I said I was going to make. At least Bill from ultimate finishers got on the thread and let people know he was sorry for what happened and owned up to the issues. If NB would do this I bet a lot more people would be on with it, but he is no where to be found and he has logged into archerytalk since this thread has started.


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## Alin_NL (May 7, 2013)

What I think is that he didn't wanted to lie, exaggerate, or fool people. I think that this is all he can, in other words he is just incompetent, he can't do more.
About his teaching methods: what did you people expected? He is just a guy who copied from internet what other people said, invented and teaches. He was never a good archer, he never had any success in any competition, he admitted that he never won anything in archery. I never understood why people consider him an icon as long as his methods don't work for him.
I can bet that if he will make another DVD and promote it in the same way as he did with this one the people who bought this first DVD will buy the second one too.

To the people that say $31 means nothing: can you(each of you), please send me $31? Come on, $31 means nothing for you, you spend thousands on archery equipment. I promise that I tell you a nice story about how you can cut your groups in half if you send me the $31 which nothing for you anyway.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> You contradict yourself. Nobody had inflated expectations. When you advertise boom cranes, double video recorders, hd cameras, digital audio, what do you expect to get? Not a bunch of still photos with audio overlays. That can be made with a smart phone and some simple editing software from a computer. He set the price and advertised it. No one said I'll offer you $31 for it. And in your argument you say he just got in over his head. So that is suppose to make it okay for everyone? The worst part is we are here going back and forth and he hasn't even commented on any of this. Not an I'm sorry it wasn't what I said it would be. Or this is exactly what I said I was going to make. At least Bill from ultimate finishers got on the thread and let people know he was sorry for what happened and owned up to the issues. If NB would do this I bet a lot more people would be on with it, but he is no where to be found and he has logged into archerytalk since this thread has started.


I'm not contradicting myself. I read a lot of those posts, and I didn't really expect to get that. Some did. That is an inflated expectation...that's my point.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Pittstate23 said:


> other were "expecting" a "video" because alan said he was making a "video". He claimed to be using "cranes" in his "video" and "remote control video shots". His "two video cam system" and "wireless remote controls" that he claimed to be using in his "video" were obviously not there. He advertised "blue ray quality". I get it , maybe the guy isn't gifted at videography. maybe he decided he can't hack it making videos. thats all understandable, but whats not is why he didn't just say, "I stink at making videos so I'm gonna sell you guys a slide show". People were only expecting what they were told by the manufacturer they would be buying. Its pretty simple, the guy claimed to have spend all this money on fancy video equipment to produce a blue ray quality video, and then sends a slide show to consumers. I would have respected him if he would have been up front and said I'm sending a measly slide show, or if he would have sent a not so good video. Read again below
> 
> Script notes to myself,
> so I don't forget what to cover
> ...


I get all that. All I'm saying is if you know anything about production it isn't as easy as it looks. I never expected it to be much more that his posts and PDFs...the best predictor of future action is past action...that's all I'm saying...


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> OK, I'm about to put down my iPad and go get some breakfast. Those jackwagon's at Goldberg's better hope that they don't overcook my bacon on my $8 breakfast sandwich, because those pictures on the menu show that thing PERFECT. And that $2.50 cup of coffee better be perfect too...or I'm going to post on Yelp what a bunch of liars and cheats they are! Little biotches, mess with me I tell you...


Goldbergs was outstanding this morning......Although I am now hungry again, so I might have to go swing back by for another sandwich.....


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

reylamb said:


> Goldbergs was outstanding this morning......Although I am now hungry again, so I might have to go swing back by for another sandwich.....


Let's meet up there sometime...I hit the one on Roswell Rd at Chastain mostly...


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## Teemster (Jul 11, 2014)

Why wouldn't u expect to get if he said he was gonna deliver it?


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I get all that. All I'm saying is if you know anything about production it isn't as easy as it looks. I never expected it to be much more that his posts and PDFs...the best predictor of future action is past action...that's all I'm saying...


I just don't know why your criticizing guys for "expecting". They "expected" a video, and rightfully so.


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I get all that. All I'm saying is if you know anything about production it isn't as easy as it looks. I never expected it to be much more that his posts and PDFs...the best predictor of future action is past action...that's all I'm saying...


90% of people don't know what goes into production. Just because you do means that everyone else had inflated expectations? Really? That is how you are defending it? This clearly says that it was advertised in the wrong manner because you who knows about production knew that it was not going to be what he stated. Thanks for helping out on the false advertisement statements that have been made.


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## Bucks & Bulls (Jun 8, 2011)

I bought the dvd set and haven't received yet but now I know what to expect. I thought it was going to be a video and not stills with voice over. I'm one of the guys who sent a little extra money and now finding out what I'm getting. I really don't care and I'm not going bash him or ask for my money back. 

I've been tuning my own bows for 20+ years. I don't do it all time and never really write things down for later reference and that was the purpose for my purchase of the dvd, to have all the information in one place so I don't have to spend so much time trying to remember what I have to do. 

Anyways, I have more important things to worry about then a dvd.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> 90% of people don't know what goes into production. Just because you do means that everyone else had inflated expectations? Really? That is how you are defending it? This clearly says that it was advertised in the wrong manner because you who knows about production knew that it was not going to be what he stated. Thanks for helping out on the false advertisement statements that have been made.


Than maybe you should go after AT after all they advertise "archers helping archers". And I don't see that happening lately.


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## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

Absolute Archer said:


> Than maybe you should go after AT after all they advertise "archers helping archers". And I don't see that happening lately.


You are blind to his friendship as well. It's obvious in the post that I quoted that it was misrepresented. But you still need to come to deflect the facts. I have never bashed him in any of my posts. I have only stated facts in the argument of the DVD not being what was advertised. And KS Bow Hunter who knows about production said himself he knew it wasn't going to be what was advertised. So keep deflecting for him but facts are facts and that can't be argued. Still waiting for NB reply but I doubt he will because he has you guys to do it.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> 90% of people don't know what goes into production. Just because you do means that everyone else had inflated expectations? Really? That is how you are defending it? This clearly says that it was advertised in the wrong manner because you who knows about production knew that it was not going to be what he stated. Thanks for helping out on the false advertisement statements that have been made.


First please don't twist my words. Second, have you read N&B posts? Seen his PDF? If so, and you believed you were getting a slick video with remote cameras I just find that comical! I'm not defending anyone...Alan should have delivered. Do I think he is less of a man because he tried and failed? Nope. Do I think that there are IBAs on here that pump themselves up by kicking someone? Every day. And that, is just plain sad.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Pittstate23 said:


> I just don't know why your criticizing guys for "expecting". They "expected" a video, and rightfully so.


I'm not criticizing, I'm just surprised that given the immense amount of interactions people have had over the years with Alan, that for $31 bucks and a one-man band they expected something that rivaled Saving Private Ryan! And for $31 they are wiling to degrade the humanity of a fellow archer...seriously?


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvp5z4z2biw


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

I'm out on this one...I've got to hit Goldberg's and Ace Hardware to repair a sink...those biotches better not shaft me I tell you...


----------



## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> You are blind to his friendship as well. It's obvious in the post that I quoted that it was misrepresented. But you still need to come to deflect the facts. I have never bashed him in any of my posts. I have only stated facts in the argument of the DVD not being what was advertised. And KS Bow Hunter who knows about production said himself he knew it wasn't going to be what was advertised. So keep deflecting for him but facts are facts and that can't be argued. Still waiting for NB reply but I doubt he will because he has you guys to do it.


Deflect the facts? really. How about if YOU don't like the DVD than return it. Why do you and so many others keep :deadhorse


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## Teemster (Jul 11, 2014)

Absolute Archer said:


> Than maybe you should go after AT after all they advertise "archers helping archers". And I don't see that happening lately.


I think it probably has a lot to do with people using this forum to generate an income for themselves instead of what it was originally created for.


----------



## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

Absolute Archer said:


> Deflect the facts? really. How about if YOU don't like the DVD than return it. Why do you and so many others keep :deadhorse


Not beating a dead horse. You are his biggest defender saying he did nothing wrong. Every time someone posts something you come in and deflect or say he has done so much in the past. No one is arguing he has given a lot of info over the years. But it's comical how you will say people are wrong for saying it was not what was advertised. That in itself is wrong and I see why you guys are friends.


----------



## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I'm not criticizing, I'm just surprised that given the immense amount of interactions people have had over the years with Alan, that for $31 bucks and a one-man band they expected something that rivaled Saving Private Ryan! And for $31 they are wiling to degrade the humanity of a fellow archer...seriously?


Personal attacks aren't cool, but the two people I know personally weren't expecting something that rivaled saving private Ryan. They were expecting a video. They got a slideshow


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## Ruperto36 (Sep 11, 2013)

If anyone wants to sell their DVDs I'll buy a set for $15


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> Not beating a dead horse. You are his biggest defender saying he did nothing wrong. Every time someone posts something you come in and deflect or say he has done so much in the past. No one is arguing he has given a lot of info over the years. But it's comical how you will say* people are wrong for saying it was not what was advertised*. That in itself is wrong and I see why you guys are friends.


Please by all means show me where I said this. Anyone can give a review or opinions about anyone. It's the lie's and name calling that I will step in and defend. Alan is a good man and does not deserve all this name calling and bashing of his character. Talk all you want about how bad you think the DVD is but YOU have no right to put him down or claim he has deceived you or anyone. If it is not what you wanted than fine return it, plain and simple. But I guess you were born perfect and have never up set anyone in your life that you did not mean to.


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## dsal (Dec 24, 2008)

Been sitting back a for a bit and now going to say some thinks here for the last time and move on. First no matter what I say for whoever thinks I am wrong or right does not matter anymore, flame me if you want. I personally have really never followed NB often but have read some good info he has posted. When he first stated that he was going to do a video he mentioned to what I thought was a video, I thought hey why not so agreed to be on the list. And no I did not read through all those pages for what it would be, just a few.

Now the time has come that I made my order and purchased two so I could gift one to a friend since I committed in the beginning and I'm not worried about the money, just feel miss informed on what a video is supposed to be. So here I am feeling mislead and thought I would kindly ask him for a refund before he ended up shipping it out. In no way have I bashed him 
on any threads, just mentioned I asked for a refund and no reply. SO FLAME ME AWAY FOR THAT.

So it is been a day and a half and no response from email or pm and that has been his choice not to reply. Not like he has not got it and if he chooses not to refund so be it my loss, just go ahead and ship it.

He has not commented on any of these ridiculously long post either. So he can sit back and wait as long as he wants too. Yes he may been dealing with a lot right now and I do feel for him 
in a sort of way. 

So again in no way I am bashing him in any way like most people are claiming for those asking for refund. 
NOW for those who want to flame me go ahead I will not comment you on it. The rest is up to N&B.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

Typical AT.


----------



## Ruperto36 (Sep 11, 2013)

Is it fraud if I told her I'm Hung but it's really just my last name?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

Ruperto36 said:


> Is it fraud if I told her I'm Hung but it's really just my last name?


I used to work with a guy whose name was Hung Dam. In the corporate directory, he was Dam, Hung. True story...


----------



## C-fused (Mar 30, 2006)

Absolute Archer said:


> Please by all means show me where I said this. Anyone can give a review or opinions about anyone. It's the lie's and name calling that I will step in and defend. Alan is a good man and does not deserve all this name calling and bashing of his character. Talk all you want about how bad you think the DVD is but YOU have no right to put him down or claim he has deceived you or anyone. If it is not what you wanted than fine return it, plain and simple. But I guess you were born perfect and have never up set anyone in your life that you did not mean to.



This coming from a guy who was spreading locker room rumors about a celebrity hunting couple and their supposed infidelity.


----------



## ProngHunter (Dec 17, 2009)

absolute archer said:


> please by all means show me where i said this. Anyone can give a review or opinions about anyone. It's the lie's and name calling that i will step in and defend. Alan is a good man and does not deserve all this name calling and bashing of his character. Talk all you want about how bad you think the dvd is but you have no right to put him down or claim he has deceived you or anyone. If it is not what you wanted than fine return it, plain and simple. But i guess you were born perfect and have never up set anyone in your life that you did not mean to.



x2.


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## fordnut (Dec 16, 2005)

I think anybody that feels slighted should deal with n&b's. And should quit bashing people for trying to help everyone


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## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

As a professional video editor for 35 years (HBO, Ford, Iams. Kodak, Acme Markets, Savon Drugs have been clients) I was curious about the video tutorials N&B was offering. When I asked him some questions about his presentations and I got responses like this...

*Not a pro video editor.
NO prior video production work.

This is a amateur, DIY, grass roots effort.
Canon 5D Mk II with the Magic Lantern Hack.
Sony NX30 video cam.
Tripods and fluid heads and ball heads.
Premiere Pro and Encore.
Tascam with Juiced Link Pre-amp for audio. Used a Lav mic.

NO film experience.
No DVD production experience. NONE. Nada.

If you are looking for production values,
then you mis-understand my approach.

Where-ever possible,
I will build DIY equipment for my own use, or show folks how to make DIY equipment, to work on their own bows.

If folks can afford a commercial unit, then by all means.

Did I hire a video production company?

Could have, but then the unit price would not be $25....right?*


And this...

*IT's $25.

Consider this a DIY effort
for my content.

NO production value.
Bad directing.
BAD actor.
Editing is amateur.

Folks wanted a DVD for my first in person seminar,
cuz they could not afford the travel costs...or travel time.

Other folks wanted a "visual" version of my FREE Guide to Tuning and Shooting Compound Bows.

Hence, this DIY production.

NO promo clips.
NO book tour.
Just an amateur effort for folks who want a "visual" version of my content.
The lav microphone is only $300. Probably should have spent at least $1000 for a better mic.
Pre-amp is ONLY a Juiced link. Mixing board would have been better, for MORE money, and a sound engineer running the board, would be better still.

The audio EQ is not great. Acoustics was not controlled well....mostly due to variable lav mic placement.*


My editor alarm bells went off and I had a feeling this was not going to end well.


----------



## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

Absolute Archer said:


> Please by all means show me where I said this. Anyone can give a review or opinions about anyone. It's the lie's and name calling that I will step in and defend. Alan is a good man and does not deserve all this name calling and bashing of his character. Talk all you want about how bad you think the DVD is but YOU have no right to put him down or claim he has deceived you or anyone. If it is not what you wanted than fine return it, plain and simple. But I guess you were born perfect and have never up set anyone in your life that you did not mean to.


I have never called him names. But he did deceive people. You may not like how that word sounds and it may not have been his intent but it is what happened. The product was not what was advertised. I don't care if it was $2 or $75. He is the one who came on here with hd cameras, boom crane, digital audio, blue ray quality. So you are saying that is not deceiving? We just misunderstood him? It's our faults to expect something better. Take our videoed PDF and shut up? Like I said I never called him names or defamed him. His DVD is what the issue is. Like an alcoholic the first thing that needs to be done is admit that there is a problem. Then we can work from there.


----------



## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> I used to work with a guy whose name was Hung Dam. In the corporate directory, he was Dam, Hung. True story...


When I was at college our assistant commandant was Col. Harvey Dick. So, at one point in his career he was Major Dick....


----------



## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

C-fused said:


> This coming from a guy who was spreading locker room rumors about a celebrity hunting couple and their supposed infidelity.


Here we go again...
And yes I never said "I" have never made a mistake as the Lord knows I have. However I have always owned up to my mistakes and apologized immediately like in that case. 
I believed what others told me and was wrong.


----------



## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

Guys a real salesman. Thing I would say all the time. Was BS. Point your nose north? Are you kidding me??? Maybe if you don't have any neck muscles. I laughed every time he put a pic of randy ulmer. His nose was pointing at 2pm. Oh and he just used a few guys help my form thread to promote his DVD and 80 dollar a month lessons. Send me a pic of this send me a pic of that. Total bs man. What a Richard.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

RockGuitarzan said:


> As a professional video editor for 35 years (HBO, Ford, Iams. Kodak, Acme Markets, Savon Drugs have been clients) I was curious about the video tutorials N&B was offering. When I asked him some questions about his presentations and I got responses like this...
> 
> *Not a pro video editor.
> NO prior video production work.
> ...


If I would have known he was spending that kinda coin on Lav mics....I would have offered to sell him some!!! 1K for a Lav??????


----------



## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

RockGuitarzan said:


> As a professional video editor for 35 years (HBO, Ford, Iams. Kodak, Acme Markets, Savon Drugs have been clients) I was curious about the video tutorials N&B was offering. When I asked him some questions about his presentations and I got responses like this...
> 
> *Not a pro video editor.
> NO prior video production work.
> ...


Yup that sounds soo deceiving.


----------



## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

tsilvers said:


> Sure... if that's how you see it...


Do you know my heart? Do you know my morals? Not in the least!!

When good people get attached, I'm there to help


----------



## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

Absolute Archer said:


> Yup that sounds soo deceiving.


Those where personal Pm's no one else was privy to. If that was in his original thread then it would have been different. They just started another thread about not getting refunds. You better get over there and deflect some more.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

reylamb said:


> If I would have known he was spending that kinda coin on Lav mics....I would have offered to sell him some!!! 1K for a Lav??????


This is a prime example of how people can get misled. Reading comprehension. He says $300 for a Lav, and said that he should've spent $1000 on a different mic.


----------



## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

Absolute Archer said:


> Yup that sounds soo deceiving.


I think you miss my point. This lengthy sarcastic response from him was not deceiving, but painfully honest. Unlike others I had a feeling it was going to be a rank amateur production.The result didnt surprise me in the least.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> Those where personal Pm's no one else was privy to. If that was in his original thread then it would have been different. They just started another thread about not getting refunds. You better get over there and deflect some more.


Yes private PMs, but my point exactly. I read the public stuff and figured the same. This is the difference in UNDERSTANDING and WANTING TO BELIEVE and then BLAMING someone else because everyone else is. I'm not defending N&Bs production, but he doesn't deserve all the bashing. I'l always stand up for the wrongly accused and bashed. On here, or in person.


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

rockguitarzan said:


> i think you miss my point. This lengthy sarcastic response from him was not deceiving, but painfully honest. Unlike others i had a feeling it was going to be a rank amateur production.the result didnt surprise me in the least.


bingo!


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## thephoenix0420 (Jan 31, 2015)

Ask AT for money back, they made money off you sorry saps too. N&B will be the scapegoat but AT made more money than he did off this.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Absolute Archer said:


> Here we go again...
> And yes I never said "I" have never made a mistake as the Lord knows I have. However I have always owned up to my mistakes and apologized immediately like in that case.
> I believed what others told me and was wrong.


To funny.... u need to go shoot ur bow my man... lol... 

take a break...


----------



## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

whack n stack said:


> Do you know my heart? Do you know my morals? Not in the least!!
> 
> When good people get attached, I'm there to help


so ur a super hero...  "good" is a subjective term..


----------



## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

Can this just go away? This is almost as ridiculous as deflategate.


----------



## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

tpetrain said:


> Those where personal Pm's no one else was privy to. If that was in his original thread then it would have been different. They just started another thread about not getting refunds. You better get over there and deflect some more.


lol...


----------



## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

nicko said:


> Can this just go away? This is almost as ridiculous as deflategate.


What's deflatgate?


----------



## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> Those where personal Pm's no one else was privy to. If that was in his original thread then it would have been different. They just started another thread about not getting refunds. You better get over there and deflect some more.


Funny...


----------



## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

thephoenix0420 said:


> Ask AT for money back, they made money off you sorry saps too. N&B will be the scapegoat but AT made more money than he did off this.


Welcome to AT.


----------



## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Absolute Archer said:


> Yup that sounds soo deceiving.


How about these quotes then:


* I will be covering beginning to end,
bows fresh out of the box....

what I do, from start to finish to get all styles of bows up and running.*

So,
binary cam bow.....with no yokes

so,
hybrid cam bow.....this is a bow with ONE yoke cable (THREE end loops) and ONE control cable (TWO end loops)

so,
single cam bow.....this is a bow with ONE yoke cable and the super duper long bowstring

so,
twin cam bow......this is a bow with TWO yoke cables, mirror image metal thingies on top and bottom.


* So,
filming on the binary cam bow is complete.*

I built a home shop using easily available materials from the hardware store,
nothing fancy...so this is part of the filming as well. 

So,
during the Binary Cam filming, I modified a very inexpensive set of needlenose pliers,
into a set of D-loop stretching pliers.

I am filming from the perspective of the home shop, so I include footage for how I tweaked the corner of my garage,
even though I have a dedicated offsite workshop area, that is MUCH MUCH larger than the corner of my garage.

Strother Moxie filming is complete.
Binary cam with no yoke cables section of DVD is done. 


So, I have a single cam bow,
I have a twin cam bow,
I purchased a binary no yoke cable bow
and I have a hybrid cam bow.

Gets pricey buying all of these DVD "props".

So,
I don't have a Bowtech OverDrive Binary (tm) synchronized Dual Cam...but,
I will discuss binary cam tuning
and I will discuss DUAL CAM tuning. 

yup,
we can do some filming.....hehehehehehe. 

Just decided to upgrade the pro audio equipment, again. 

You want me to go dig up his claims of remote cameras, jibs, multi camera perspectives, skeletons, etc, etc, etc? Lots of claims of filming...sounds more than a little misleading and deceiving, dontcha think? I get it, you like the guy. At least be intellectually honest that what he delivered was not what he advertised. If that was his plan all along he wasted a ton of movie to do not much more than screen captures with Voice Overs.

Again, I am not questioning his honesty, integrity, claiming he attempted to defraud folks, or intentionally set out to rip folks off.....but what he delivered was a far cry from what he claimed it would be.


----------



## tpetrain (Nov 25, 2013)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Yes private PMs, but my point exactly. I read the public stuff and figured the same. This is the difference in UNDERSTANDING and WANTING TO BELIEVE and then BLAMING someone else because everyone else is. I'm not defending N&Bs production, but he doesn't deserve all the bashing. I'l always stand up for the wrongly accused and bashed. On here, or in person.


I agree the name calling is wrong. But if you take the average joe and tell him there is a video being made with boom cranes, hd cameras, digital audio. What do you think they will think they are getting? You keep saying your not defending him and people only believe what they want to believe. You say people are blaming him because other people are. I believe they got the same low budget PDF on DVD that was hyped up for over a year and that is why people are coming out. It doesn't matter if you have had a 100 conversations with him. What about the guy that never has talked to him and sees this awesome video being advertised and decides to buy it. It's his fault because he couldn't see that from NB posts it was going to be something different?


----------



## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

tsilvers said:


> To funny.... u need to go shoot ur bow my man... lol...
> 
> take a break...


You are 100% correct. I am going to go shoot now.


----------



## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> This is a prime example of how people can get misled. Reading comprehension. He says $300 for a Lav, and said that he should've spent $1000 on a different mic.


Either way, I would love to sell him $1k microphones......I mean absolutely love to. I know several retailers/vendors that would jump in on that deal also.


----------



## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

reylamb said:


> How about these quotes then:
> 
> 
> * I will be covering beginning to end,
> ...


But But But
You
Were not
Supposed to
Remember
This
Soooooo
Glad I didn't
Buy
One


----------



## krakin (Apr 13, 2014)

I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


----------



## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

Hey, hes lucky this is the age of the internet sales.

In the old west when folks felt a "snake oil" salesman had mislead them and took their hard earned money...

they would tar and feather him then run him out of town on a rail :wink:


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

tpetrain said:


> I agree the name calling is wrong. But if you take the average joe and tell him there is a video being made with boom cranes, hd cameras, digital audio. What do you think they will think they are getting? You keep saying your not defending him and people only believe what they want to believe. You say people are blaming him because other people are. I believe they got the same low budget PDF on DVD that was hyped up for over a year and that is why people are coming out. It doesn't matter if you have had a 100 conversations with him. What about the guy that never has talked to him and sees this awesome video being advertised and decides to buy it. It's his fault because he couldn't see that from NB posts it was going to be something different?


Good points...we all have a different POV. I just hate these basher threads on AT...drags us all down.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


Say what?


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


Seriously?


----------



## trotsky85 (Oct 28, 2014)

In all honesty I can use everything I can gt to learn. As I see it the DVD is a learning tool. It may be boring and without action but when can you say that you have ever had a bow tuning film that kept you at the end of your seats? Hopefully I can learn something from this if not oh well I will find another source to throw my money at


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## enewman (Jun 5, 2007)

krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


Now wouldn't that be funny. Then all the people on here would owe him more then an apology.


----------



## ge1.5mw (Nov 22, 2010)

krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


Hahahahaaa im going to absolutely lose it if this is real! :mg:


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## 45er (Jan 18, 2009)

If Nuts & Bolts is returning everyone's money who bought the DVD and wasn't satisfied, what's the big problem? Has anyone who's asked for their money back been refused? If so, says so here. If not, again, what's the problem?

If I ordered a movie from the internet and they sent me a picture book, the first thing I'm going to do is contact them and ask for a refund. If they agree, nothing more needs to be said. If they refuse, well, that's a different story......................


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm watching the DVD now. It just came in the mail. So far lots of still photos, but also some video footage. None of Alan talking into the camera, but some video footage of equipment with voice over. He's going over everything for setup out of the box. Not a Hollywood production, but the info is there.


----------



## blakbelt (Jan 6, 2012)

45er said:


> If Nuts & Bolts is returning everyone's money who bought the DVD and wasn't satisfied, what's the big problem? Has anyone who's asked for their money back been refused? If so, says so here. If not, again, what's the problem?
> 
> If I ordered a movie from the internet and they sent me a picture book, the first thing I'm going to do is contact them and ask for a refund. If they agree, nothing more needs to be said. If they refuse, well, that's a different story......................


Come on man.. you should know the archery crowd better than this. If XYZ bow manufacturer advertised an amazing 370 FPS bow with now shock and silky smooth draw, and when it was delivered to the public after a year of hyping their incredible new technology it would only hit 330 FPS and was loud, hard to draw, and vibrated like a tuning fork, that manufacturer would be publicly criticized for deceiving the public and being a sham. 

You would not simply ask for a refund, return the bow, and leave it at that. The same holds true for any product advertised and sold to the general public. If the product does not live up to the marketing hype and/or over-hype there will be a valid public outcry demanding better results and challenging the marketing hype. 

I did not purchase the DVD's nor am I hear to bash the man, but, I do believe that the negative publicity here is good, constructive, and absolutely what I would expect if any manufacturer failed to live up to their claims. Regardless if they are willing to issue refunds or not.


----------



## hooks (Mar 22, 2005)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> I'm watching the DVD now. It just came in the mail. So far lots of still photos, but also some video footage. None of Alan talking into the camera, but some video footage of equipment with voice over. He's going over everything for setup out of the box. Not a Hollywood production, but the info is there.


Thank you!


----------



## inactiveuser23 (Dec 8, 2014)

Hehehehehehe.....


Puke!


----------



## blakbelt (Jan 6, 2012)

What I think would be nice is for someone to offer an actual objective review of the DVD content without the preconceived notion of what they THOUGHT was going to be there. 

This doesn't excuse the fact that there was a lot of claims about what it was SUPPOSED to be. But, forget that for a while and let's just get a review of what it IS.


----------



## Bucks & Bulls (Jun 8, 2011)

So I just got the dvd set in the mail and went through the first disc. It's just like everyone says. I wish it would have been actual video but after thinking about it, to me, I got what I paid for...... The information on the disc. I read all the posts about the hype of what this dvd was going to be like most of you. I would really like to hear from nuts&bolts about this. If people are not happy with what they got ask for a refund and move on. Some of you could have waited to hear a explanation from him before you decided to resort to name calling among other things. Very low class and you should be ashamed.


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## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

O


krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


That would be outstanding. Please be true. Please please please please......


----------



## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> I'm watching the DVD now. It just came in the mail. So far lots of still photos, but also some video footage. None of Alan talking into the camera, but some video footage of equipment with voice over. He's going over everything for setup out of the box. Not a Hollywood production, but the info is there.


You are saying your DVD has motion video footage?


----------



## RCL (Apr 23, 2004)

krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. *Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD*. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


:bump:


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

RCL said:


> :bump:


*I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know*

Is this true?


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## zwalls (Apr 16, 2006)

krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


no kidding? that would surely put crow on a lot of faces who were so ready to jump on the band wagon and Bash Alan. this is making want to watch it more now!!


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## Ijaw (May 12, 2012)

krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


Many thanks :darkbeer:


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Alan has helped people, no doubt. But I also had a bad experience with him. So I have no sympathy for him about this, glad I passed on his "video"


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Alan has helped people, no doubt. But I also had a bad experience with him. So I have no sympathy for him about this, glad I passed on his "video"


Have you not read the last few posts?


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## krakin (Apr 13, 2014)

krakin said:


> I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know


Ok, Ok, just joking but would have been rather funny. Haven't even seen the DVD.

I feel for N&B right now. If all the quotes are true then something seems amiss as to the perception created vs the feedback on the DVD. Perhaps he did actually film everything and then towards the end chose to pull all the footage for some reason or another.


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

mt_elkhunter said:


> Ill take the 45 ammo, I know how to search on AT


True that lol


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## RCL (Apr 23, 2004)

krakin said:


> Ok, Ok, just joking but would have been rather funny. Haven't even seen the DVD.


:brick:


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## blakbelt (Jan 6, 2012)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Alan has helped people, no doubt. But I also had a bad experience with him. So I have no sympathy for him about this, glad I passed on his "video"


Alan was eager to help people out for free while he was trying to solidify his position as the "expert". Now that he feels he has successfully done so, he has moved on from the free resource people are used to, to a paid "consultant" so to speak.

This is perfectly fine by me, as that is his prerogative. However, on the other hand it puts him into a whole new bracket, and with that comes a level of criticism that he has to be willing to accept. 

He has moved on from the helpful guy down the street to the full-on shop owner. And we know how critical we are of the level of service and quality we expect from shops these days. Why should N&B be held to any less standard? 

The AT community is pretty great I think. Everyone is super cool with the idea of Archers helping Archers and I have learned a ton from people on here with no strings attached. But, on the other hand, you start putting money on the line, and the archery community has VERY high standards.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

markdenis said:


> Have you not read the last few posts?


There are hundreds of posts saying its a slide show and one guy said there's some video. You don't think that one of these people have inserted the disk on a supposed "video" side..? Lol I say bs, otherwise that is a miracle by God that every person I have read say it's a slide show has missed the 50/50 chance of putting it on a video side


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## ge1.5mw (Nov 22, 2010)

ge1.5mw said:


> Hahahahaaa im going to absolutely lose it if this is real! :mg:


:moviecorn


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## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

blakbelt said:


> Alan was eager to help people out for free while he was trying to solidify his position as the "expert". Now that he feels he has successfully done so, he has moved on from the free resource people are used to, to a paid "consultant" so to speak.
> 
> This is perfectly fine by me, as that is his prerogative. However, on the other hand it puts him into a whole new bracket, and with that comes a level of criticism that he has to be willing to accept.
> 
> ...


:thumbs_up Somebody who sees things the way they really are.


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## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

*Originally Posted by krakin 
I assume you all know that side 1 of disk 1 is the voice over of the images and side 2 of disk 1 is the video. Sometimes I wonder if you all didn't know its a double sided DVD. Sometimes common sense isn't all that common but thought I'd let you know



Posted by krakin at a later point in time
Ok, Ok, just joking but would have been rather funny. Haven't even seen the DVD.*



This is how dangerous destructive rumors start.

Not cool, sociopath :thumbs_do


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## krakin (Apr 13, 2014)

RockGuitarzan said:


> This is how dangerous destructive rumors start.
> 
> Not cool, sociopath :thumbs_do


Wow, lighten up bud. Life's too short to take everything so seriously.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

krakin said:


> Wow, lighten up bud. Life's too short to take everything so seriously.


I laughed


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

sawtoothscream said:


> I laughed


They got their hopes up so fast!


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

blakbelt said:


> Alan was eager to help people out for free while he was trying to solidify his position as the "expert". Now that he feels he has successfully done so, he has moved on from the free resource people are used to, to a paid "consultant" so to speak.
> 
> This is perfectly fine by me, as that is his prerogative. However, on the other hand it puts him into a whole new bracket, and with that comes a level of criticism that he has to be willing to accept.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly, well stated. 

Nothing wrong with asking for cash for your products and services, but be prepared for good and bad reviews. Every business has to deal with it


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## RockGuitarzan (Nov 20, 2014)

krakin said:


> Wow, lighten up bud. Life's too short to take everything so seriously.


Either you are brain dead or 7 years old.

Stirring the pot with misinformation (calculated to make things worse) when there are thousands of people are upset about a situation, is both stupid and irresponsible.


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## NM_HighPlains (Nov 25, 2005)

markdenis said:


> You are saying your DVD has motion video footage?


I just pulled mine out of the mail today. First, I'm looking at 3 DVD's, none of them double-sided (they've got labels on one side). I haven't watched them all- just skimmed. There IS motion video footage- a little of it, anyway- on DVD #3. It otherwise looks like the PDF guide done in a PowerPoint presentation with many of the pictures we've already seen but a lot I haven't seen. 

Instructional DVD's are, IMHE, nearly always disappointing in some sense. I used to review for 2 major music magazines and thus I have 2 bookshelves full of instructional music DVDs and videos. In addition, I've been to workshops and music camps all over the US, many of which cost $1000+ to attend. They are ALL disappointing in some ways- either the instructor didn't cover this, the instructor couldn't teach, the instructor didn't dig deep enough, blah, blah, blah. MY job as a student is dig for the information. Sometimes this means ignoring what the instructor said and watch what they do. Sometimes it means asking someone else what was going on. Whatever. The point is that I have NEVER seen an instructional DVD that was perfect. Never.

The N&B DVD in my hand is full of information and I know that at least some of it is good 'cause I've applied some of the lessons already via our posts here. Sure, you could "search" for the posts and sure you could just read the PDF, but the DVD puts it all together, in order, and adds Alan's talking. Frankly, I wouldn't WANT video of some of these things- a photo is clearer, can be drawn on, and etc. I mean, do I really need to _see _a guy twist a cable? Especially when it takes 5-10 seconds to do that and I can read the words "twist the cable" in 0.25 seconds? Maybe you do, but I get more information with the latter. No, N&B's ideas are not always correct. Again, I've never seen anyone who is 100% correct and I have taken lessons with some of the best guitar players in the world. They have their way and it works for them, but sometimes it's an illogical idea that works only because they can make it work. Again, as a student, it's my job to pull information for a wide variety of sources. So, here, I've pulled from N&B (fine tuning the control cable for instance), Ontarget7 (the grip), and more. There are some things that I think N&B is all wet about and OnTarget7's draw (that reverse chicken wing thing) just drives me nuts. Whatever. My job is to find what works for me and use it.

Bottom line: I'm happy enough with the DVD. It's not exactly what I was expecting but there is still a LOT of information there and it's well worth the $30 I spent on it.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

NM_HighPlains said:


> I just pulled mine out of the mail today. First, I'm looking at 3 DVD's, none of them double-sided (they've got labels on one side). I haven't watched them all- just skimmed. There IS motion video footage- a little of it, anyway- on DVD #3. It otherwise looks like the PDF guide done in a PowerPoint presentation with many of the pictures we've already seen but a lot I haven't seen.
> 
> Instructional DVD's are, IMHE, nearly always disappointing in some sense. I used to review for 2 major music magazines and thus I have 2 bookshelves full of instructional music DVDs and videos. In addition, I've been to workshops and music camps all over the US, many of which cost $1000+ to attend. They are ALL disappointing in some ways- either the instructor didn't cover this, the instructor couldn't teach, the instructor didn't dig deep enough, blah, blah, blah. MY job as a student is dig for the information. Sometimes this means ignoring what the instructor said and watch what they do. Sometimes it means asking someone else what was going on. Whatever. The point is that I have NEVER seen an instructional DVD that was perfect. Never.
> 
> ...


Well there ya go...still and motion video as he promised.


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## novich69 (Dec 1, 2006)

NM_HighPlains said:


> I just pulled mine out of the mail today. First, I'm looking at 3 DVD's, none of them double-sided (they've got labels on one side). I haven't watched them all- just skimmed. There IS motion video footage- a little of it, anyway- on DVD #3. It otherwise looks like the PDF guide done in a PowerPoint presentation with many of the pictures we've already seen but a lot I haven't seen.
> 
> Instructional DVD's are, IMHE, nearly always disappointing in some sense. I used to review for 2 major music magazines and thus I have 2 bookshelves full of instructional music DVDs and videos. In addition, I've been to workshops and music camps all over the US, many of which cost $1000+ to attend. They are ALL disappointing in some ways- either the instructor didn't cover this, the instructor couldn't teach, the instructor didn't dig deep enough, blah, blah, blah. MY job as a student is dig for the information. Sometimes this means ignoring what the instructor said and watch what they do. Sometimes it means asking someone else what was going on. Whatever. The point is that I have NEVER seen an instructional DVD that was perfect. Never.
> 
> ...


That's all the man was ever selling!!


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

Before you know it, someone will want a refund because his DVD didn't turn them into a x-busting pro!


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## frd567 (Jan 30, 2012)

I cought on to this a little over a year ago. I was cool with it. 
Establish a proven track record then why not make a little money off it. I can't pin point it but there seems to me to have been a transition or evolution in his methods.
You are right, when people start laying out cash they become much more concerning.
I have been on the fence about on line coaching, now not so much to more than probably not.i 



blakbelt said:


> Alan was eager to help people out for free while he was trying to solidify his position as the "expert". Now that he feels he has successfully done so, he has moved on from the free resource people are used to, to a paid "consultant" so to speak.
> 
> This is perfectly fine by me, as that is his prerogative. However, on the other hand it puts him into a whole new bracket, and with that comes a level of criticism that he has to be willing to accept.
> 
> ...


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## newbowthunder (Jan 21, 2012)

Huh. Well how is the video quality?
People were Saying He Promised A Micheal Bay productionn.?


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

markdenis said:


> You are saying your DVD has motion video footage?


I have watched very little of it so far, but it does have some video footage of equipment. This is on disc 1, but as I said I have only watched a very few mins of disc 1 and disc 1 only so far. He has though, used camera equipment for video footage. How much? That is ye to be determined.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I just watched the first 3 minutes and there is motion video in there. Don't know why everybody saying only pictures.


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## ATLurker (Jan 2, 2011)

Pysiek said:


> I just watched the first 3 minutes and there is motion video in there. Don't know why everybody saying only pictures.


There is some video but not much. Mostly pics.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

Pysiek said:


> I just watched the first 3 minutes and there is motion video in there. Don't know why everybody saying only pictures.


Nutsandbolts haters...probably planned from the start to hurt sales!


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> I'm watching the DVD now. It just came in the mail. So far lots of still photos, but also some video footage. None of Alan talking into the camera, but some video footage of equipment with voice over. He's going over everything for setup out of the box. Not a Hollywood production, but the info is there.


And everyone is crying......


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Alan has helped people, no doubt. But I also had a bad experience with him. So I have no sympathy for him about this, glad I passed on his "video"


What was so bad?


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

blakbelt said:


> Alan was eager to help people out for free while he was trying to solidify his position as the "expert". Now that he feels he has successfully done so, he has moved on from the free resource people are used to, to a paid "consultant" so to speak.
> 
> This is perfectly fine by me, as that is his prerogative. However, on the other hand it puts him into a whole new bracket, and with that comes a level of criticism that he has to be willing to accept.
> 
> ...


Agreed, but this community actually sucks for the most part. It used to be all about archers helping archers. Don't get me wrong there's tons of good people and info but the trolls and hating fanboys far out number the good here. 

There is several minutes of sifting through bs and fanboy dribble to find one nugget of good info. Regardless I don't care for Alan for how he treated me, but I still have a bit of respect for him for all the people he has helped.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

whack n stack said:


> What was so bad?


If you're that curious you can PM me. I don't want to bash Alan publicly but if you want to pm me I'll tell you


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

whack n stack said:


> What was so bad?


I hope when all this is over, Alan takes action against all the people that made an attempt to defame him which is very obvious in some of the comments about him personally and his product he distributed.


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## bigbadwoolfe (Jan 1, 2013)

ge1.5mw said:


> Hahahahaaa im going to absolutely lose it if this is real! :mg:


Jesus Christ... 2 sided DVD, one side video, the other audio? DVDs have been out there for decades now. When was the last time you saw a double sided one? Do you also believe Santa is real, or even consider it a possibility?


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## enewman (Jun 5, 2007)

bigbadwoolfe said:


> Jesus Christ, you Mormon.... 2 sided DVD, one side video, the other audio? Do you also believe Santa is real, or even consider it a possibility?


What Santa is not real.


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## ge1.5mw (Nov 22, 2010)

bigbadwoolfe said:


> Jesus Christ... 2 sided DVD, one side video, the other audio? DVDs have been out there for decades now. When was the last time you saw a double sided one? Do you also believe Santa is real, or even consider it a possibility?


You didnt get it... Not going to explain it... Have a good one!


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## BigShow (Sep 4, 2006)

bigbadwoolfe said:


> Jesus Christ... 2 sided DVD, one side video, the other audio? DVDs have been out there for decades now. When was the last time you saw a double sided one? Do you also believe Santa is real, or even consider it a possibility?


I bought 2 the other day, 4 John Wayne movies...


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

markdenis said:


> I hope when all this is over, Alan takes action against all the people that made an attempt to defame him which is very obvious in some of the comments about him personally and his product he distributed.


What a thing to wish for...archers suing archers!


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## xhammer23 (Dec 25, 2014)

bigbadwoolfe said:


> Jesus Christ... 2 sided DVD, one side video, the other audio? DVDs have been out there for decades now. When was the last time you saw a double sided one? Do you also believe Santa is real, or even consider it a possibility?


I have a couple 2 sided DVD's. And some 2 sided CD's so it is possible. Good try though bro.


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## markdenis (Sep 7, 2010)

LetThemGrow said:


> What a thing to wish for...archers suing archers!


Personal attacks of this nature needs resolution no matter the crowd. It will probably get worse unless he stops it. I hope he stops it.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

enewman said:


> What Santa is not real.


saw him at the mall


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## bigbadwoolfe (Jan 1, 2013)

xhammer23 said:


> I have a couple 2 sided DVD's. And some 2 sided CD's so it is possible. Good try though bro.


It's about common sense, "bro". Over here people complain about getting a slide show on a disk when they expected a Michael Bay production because of how technologically hyped this was, but it seems logical that the technology flop shipped on a double sided DVDs? Gimme a break.


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## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

I'm quite surprised Alan has not responded publicly to the critiques.


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## BoHunter0210 (Oct 3, 2011)

I received mine today. So far it's okay. Not anything flashy or fancy. No earth shattering videography. Voice over is mono toned but speaks like Alan types. For me this video works. Helping me improve and learn about archery. Just my opinion.


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

No crap guys!!! All you built him up beyond belief so now you have the people like me that would say BS on some of his posts. I'd also PM some of those getting help to say there's more than 1 way to skin a cat... He he he he he

Oh yeah and everyone drop their draw 4 inches tuck your shirt in wear shoes stand up to a door frame oh and that's All the free advice I'll give pay me for the next steps


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## eskimoohunt (Dec 21, 2008)

Man this guys a silent fox!!!!


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Ha.


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## Dhninja (Aug 12, 2014)

I got mine today !! It's sucks pretty bad ! I'm actually tired of reading as a watch a DVD !! Sure thought it was gonna be something like a actual video !! It's junk !! Waste of 31 bucks!! At should be ban him from selling any of his stuff on here !


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## bpfohler (Dec 28, 2013)

markdenis said:


> Nutsandbolts haters...probably planned from the start to hurt sales!


Must be a conspiracy!! Come on- really? What is there to gain by bashing him without seeing how bad it is?


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## inactiveuser23 (Dec 8, 2014)

Let's back up. We know the dvd is junk. But did someone say there isn't a Santa Claus?


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

GrooGrux said:


> Let's back up. We know the dvd is junk. But did someone say there isn't a Santa Claus?


*** really? My wife thinks that's who brings my bows


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

GrooGrux said:


> Let's back up. We know the dvd is junk. But did someone say there isn't a Santa Claus?


Now I am pissed.


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## rustyhart (Feb 20, 2014)

Did Nuts and Bolts just pull a


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## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

It didn't take long but the N&B bloopers reel just got leaked. Here is a preview.

http://youtu.be/l73URVRMZfo


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## ATLurker (Jan 2, 2011)

Dewboy said:


> I haven't seen the video, but I almost pre-paid for one. Then I thought, if the video is good, it will sell well and the good reviews will generate more demand, which he would be a fool not to make more to sell to new customers to meet those demands. I figured I would get mine AFTER enough had chimed in with their reviews. I'm glad now that I waited.
> 
> Here is something to consider. Why take Pre-orders? Because you want to make sure you are going to have enough sales to cover your expenses and make it worth your time perhaps? Then AFTER A LONG WAIT, the video comes out, and it is very low quality with none of the expensive video promised. So, since this turned out to be a video that could have been completed in a fraction of the time, "WHY DID" it take so long to put out a low quality video(if it is in fact low quality as claimed)?
> 
> ...


You're very wrong on many accounts. No money was asked for until the DVD's were ready. Just in the last week or so.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

He has answered questions for me numerous times, and has now helped me with some issues. I bought it. And I would buy it regardless just as a way to say thanks. Mine came today, so hopefully I'll get to watch soon. Not only does he know a lot, he will help anybody. Tribute to archery and the site in my opinion.


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## FEDIE316 (Dec 27, 2006)

Dewboy said:


> I haven't seen the video, but I almost pre-paid for one. Then I thought, if the video is good, it will sell well and the good reviews will generate more demand, which he would be a fool not to make more to sell to new customers to meet those demands. I figured I would get mine AFTER enough had chimed in with their reviews. I'm glad now that I waited.
> 
> Here is something to consider. Why take Pre-orders? Because you want to make sure you are going to have enough sales to cover your expenses and make it worth your time perhaps? Then AFTER A LONG WAIT, the video comes out, and it is very low quality with none of the expensive video promised. So, since this turned out to be a video that could have been completed in a fraction of the time, "WHY DID" it take so long to put out a low quality video(if it is in fact low quality as claimed)?
> 
> ...


What? I didn't receive the email nofification with his paypal info until 1/26/15, 4 days ago. I don't think anyone "pre-paid", you could put your name on the list to "pre-order" but that didn't obligate you to buy anything, some have already stated that they changed their mind and simply didn't buy the DVD because it was taking so long.


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## muck (May 15, 2005)

I got $10 tmd for a copy of the dvd. someone must be willing to sell one. seeing how all these people got "ripped off".


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

FEDIE316 said:


> What? I didn't receive the email nofification with his paypal info until 1/26/15, 4 days ago. I don't think anyone "pre-paid", you could put your name on the list to "pre-order" but that didn't obligate you to buy anything, some have already stated that they changed their mind and simply didn't buy the DVD because it was taking so long.


Well if that is the case, what is everyone griping about? If they paid with credit card or paypal, they can get their money back. If they are not satisfied with the DVD and think they were misled, they can get their money back with a charge-back or file a dispute with paypal. And if they just paid this recently, they should not be getting impatient about not having received a DVD yet. I was under the impression that he wanted money for a Pre-Order. My bad! No reason to worry if you paid with a safe method like PayPal or credit card.

Thanks for keeping me straight FEDIE316 and ATLurker!


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## FEDIE316 (Dec 27, 2006)

Dewboy said:


> Well if that is the case, what is everyone griping about? If they paid with credit card or paypal, they can get their money back. If they are not satisfied with the DVD and think they were misled, they can get their money back with a charge-back or file a dispute with paypal. And if they just paid this recently, they should not be getting impatient about not having received a DVD yet. I was under the impression that he wanted money for a Pre-Order. My bad! No reason to worry if you paid with a safe method like PayPal or credit card.
> 
> Thanks for keeping me straight FEDIE316 and ATLurker!


Yeah it's crazy how fast people go off the deep end and throw a tantrum over a DVD set.


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## roughneck1 (Feb 8, 2012)

Dhninja said:


> I got mine today !! It's sucks pretty bad ! I'm actually tired of reading as a watch a DVD !! Sure thought it was gonna be something like a actual video !! It's junk !! Waste of 31 bucks!! At should be ban him from selling any of his stuff on here !


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