# Javi-look at this?



## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

Javi, I tried to send this pic in a PM but could not figure out how to do it. This is the end serving on my buss cable on my Xtec. Am I correct in thinking I should not shoot this? This is a new string with less than 100 shots on it. This is a replacement string to replace the last one that did this in about six months. I am at wit's end with this deal, I was having trouble getting ATA and draw weight correct, I put about 12 twists in this cable to get close. Any ideas on this, I am beginning to think this particular company puts out crap but before I slam them, I would like to know if I could be at fault here, the dang Hoyt factory servings held up better than this. Let me know what you think. Thanks


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

well, i'm not javi, but i can tell you as a string maker that that looks like crap. unless you've got damage or some kind of burr or something in the cable slot on your cam causing it, its just a s****ty job. your cam looks clean from here, but you need to check in the slot to make sure. 
it almost looks like bcy 3d end serving, which while it has a higher breaking pt poundage wise, i've found it cant take the compression that diamondback can and will just give out after getting squashed so many times, but usually more than 100.


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

Bucknasty, are you sure you are not one of Javi's alter egos?  I welcome anyones perspective who has more knowledge than I. I don't think there is any problem with the cam, the factory Hoyt string didn't do this. I will have to look to be certain. This is a Stone Mountain string, the second one I have had, not real pleased at this time with them. This is less than 100 shots, I was in the process of getting the bow set back up after replacing the other SM string. Is this dangerous to shoot? This really makes me crazy, the turkey opener is just 5 days away and I think my bow is now defunct :angry: I can shoot my other one but this is the one I have set up to shoot my heavy hunting arrows. Thanks for the input.



Mark


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Mark... I'd pull it off the bow and make sure that the serving isn't broken.. It looks like it's just seperating a little... I wouldn't like it, but I'd hunt with it if the serving thread isn't broken.... At least till I could get a replacement....


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

ummm, if it were me i'd shoot it (with a close eye on it for string wear), but i'm afraid with the serving crossing itself and being loose its going to rub against itself and end up breaking (the serving). i wouldn't plan on practicing too much though. the other thing is, if it were me i'd know i could just make another. if i didn't know that though, and looking at it, i'd say you need to get another cable pretty darn soon, or get that end re-served. if the serving does end up cutting itself it'll start unraveling and you'll have a mess. i don't think you're in immediate danger from shooting it, unless something like a burr inside the cam is causing it and will cut the string, but pretty soon, if the serving breaks and unravels you'll need it re-served or a new one immediately.


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

Javi, will do. Did you ever get a chance to check the Xtec tune charts for a possible misprint or mistake for the 04 Xtec, especially for 27" draw? Later tator  

Bucknasty, thanks for the info, I might just shoot my Ultratec and let this one sit the bench. I am really frustrated with this mess.



Mark


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## Jabwa (Dec 10, 2004)

You mentioned twisting the string.....you didn't twist it the wrong way, did you? If so, you will loosen the serving.


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

Jabwa said:


> You mentioned twisting the string.....you didn't twist it the wrong way, did you? If so, you will loosen the serving.


you could untwist the string all the way and it wouldn't affect the serving there. that was made by someone who doesnt know how to come off the loop properly with the serving.


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## Steel Magnolia (Jan 2, 2005)

*Serving separation....*

When you get that string fixed, put some Brownell Liquid Lok and Cam EZ on it. The liquid lok seals the serving tight and the cam ez lubes it so it floats around the cams like glass. My cam servings on my new Winners Choice almost feel like they are monofilament.

SM


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## Smoke (Feb 4, 2003)

Ya'll are getting spoiled!  

Back in the days of fastflight, serving seperation was a fact of life that usually occured within a day or two on new strings and cables, no matter who made them. We'd shoot for months with serving that looked a lot worse than that! As the man said, as long as the serving ain't broke don't sweat it. Have fun and go kill ya a big`ol'tom.


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

Thanks for the input guys, not sure what I will do. I do know that I am finished with Stone Mountain, I emailed these pics to Dave Olive at SM last night and have yet to get a response. Went back to their website and found this quote:

Combined with our unique serving process, the "DAKOTA" bow strings eliminate peep rotation and the need for any alignment devices. The servings are extremely tight and will not slip or separate. 

Last time I talked to Mr. Olive he told me their strings didn't stretch, creep, or fuzz. The other one I had did all of these and the serving separated. He said he would reserve it for me, just send it in. I told him I wasn't happy with the string and would not waste any more money on it. I told him I had put a WC string on my other bow since buying this string and would just do the same for this bow. He then said "I will replace it, I will send you a whole new set, just send the other one back". The pics show the serving with less than 100 shots. I am thinking I should get a refund but seriously doubt I will get it. If I had more room and more time I would like to learn to make my own but I have neither of the above.  




Mark


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

I just received an email from Dave Olive at SM, he apologized for this happening and said he will send me a replacement as soon as I send him the information. He is stepping up to the plate and doing right but I am not sure how much more of this I can take. :angry: 




Mark


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

fn257 said:


> I just received an email from Dave Olive at SM, he apologized for this happening and said he will send me a replacement as soon as I send him the information. He is stepping up to the plate and doing right but I am not sure how much more of this I can take. :angry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mark...

When you get the new ones in give me a shout...


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

Javi, will do.......................Mark


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## Chief P (Dec 1, 2003)

*serving too thick*

Looking at the pictures I'm going with the serving is too fat. It is not settling in the grove but rubbing both sides as it goes into the groove. Really think the serving is too fat. Have them serve it with a small diameter serving material.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

The sharp angle of the bend is at fault; it is also an issue with Spiral cams... The serving must be very tight and "YES" of the proper diameter... I am using 0.016 and 0.017 Dyneema based end serving with good results on my spirals... I serve under 200 plus pounds of tension and adjust the serving tool so that it will just try to twist the string but not quite twist it... if that makes sense to ya'...


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

Javi, I was wondering if that had some effect on it, the bend is very close to the end serving. Both of the servings separated in the exact spot. The cam is good under the string, so it is not being damaged by a rough spot or something. When the cam starts to rotate all of the tension is on that angle until it rolls over. I will get in touch with you when it gets here. I think I will hunt with my Ultratec, it has not been blooded yet and some turkey just may help me do that. I actually may not get to hunt, my first objective will be to get my 12yr old, Lora, a shot on a turkey. She has killed two deer with a rifle and this her first attempt at game with her 42 lb Hoyt Banshee. I will be just as happy if she scores and I get skunked!  



Mark


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

*Mark...*

Good luck to both of you .... That's what make it worth all the effort... seeing the young ones enjoy what we do...


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## MKD (Feb 8, 2003)

The serving on my Hoyt is not seperating at that location it looks like it is being cut. I have no way of posting pictures but I think I better take it back to the shop to see is there might be a burr at that area of the cam. It is a factory cable Has anyone else had that problem?


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

Well folks, the saga continues, I received the replacement for the replacement buss cable today. I really wondered if it was some kind of sick joke. First off it was the wrong color and then the end serving had some kind of tag end or something sticking out of it and a strange looking mess of serving material in a big wad. I have a pic to post but it really is hard to see some of it in the pic. If you are a customer service person sending an already dissatisfied customer a replacement for a replacement, I think you should at least check the one you are sending for quality. I am off base here? I called SM and talked to Dave Olive and after quite a row, he said instead of refunding my money he would custom build me a 452X string with custom servings. I agreed but told him that this would be the last straw and he said if not satisfied he would give me a full refund. I will give it one more shot but all of my effort in tuning this bow 3 times is worth something. I just know that I put a WC on my Ultratec and once I got it dialed it I haven't touched it.



On a lighter note, Lora and I got skunked by the turkeys but on Saturday we shot the 3rd leg of the Lone Star Classic at Brownwood Bowhunters. She is 12 and shoots in the Cubs class, she shot a 271 with 5 11's severly smoking her Dad who only managed a 236 with a single 11.  


Mark


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

wow!


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

BN, I pulled on that little mess of stuff sticking up and it is part of the serving, where it came up I can see the brown string material underneath it. I am disgusted with SM, I have no real faith that the fourth replacement will be any better. I am starting to think I'm a fool for agreeing to another replacement. :angry: 




Mark


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

what colors are you looking for. i'll make you one out of 452x. if you like it you can send me $20, if not send it back and i'll paypal you the shipping. i wouldn't normally do this but i've had limb troubles in the past and i know how upsetting this can all be.


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

BN, that's really nice of you to offer that, I would first like to see what they send me. I don't want to impose on you just yet. If I am not satisfied with it, I will get the refund and take you up on that offer. That is really a generous thing for you to offer. I don't know how much time it takes to make a string but it has to be several hours. I will keep you informed and see how it plays out. Thanks again. 




Mark


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

string? i thought it was just the cable. let us all know how the new set is. i'm guessing an employee won't be in charge of it this time.


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

BN, it was the cable, I just said string by mistake. 

A person would think that if you are trying to appease an unhappy customer, you would use the utmost diligence when dealing with that person. To receive that cable on their 3rd attempt to satisfy me is almost laughable. They said they would make me a 452x complete set with higher quality servings to make it right. I won't hold my breath  



Mark


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

higher quality servings? why didn't they do that the first time? that right there would have made me fume. anyway, i'll quit adding fuel, sorry, and i'll keep an eye on this thread to see how things go. on another note, 452x is my favorite.

ps, what did i say about the serving in my first post.


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

The issue of "higher quality servings" did come up in our discussion, I did mention that those should have been used the first time. He did say what kind were on the cable and what he would use on the new set but being about 2 degrees from boiling over, I cannot remember what he said. Anyway, he said he would get the strings built and have them to me by Wednesday. We'll see.  


Mark


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

Well, I missed the Fedex guy yesterday but left the door tag signed and he left a package today. I opened the box and there are two complete sets of strings and two extra buss cables in it. There was a nice note from Dave Olive in it explaining that he was sorry for the problems. and here was a replacement and an extra set for my troubles. He also included an extra buss cable with each set. He said one set was served with Diamond back and the other with a new material called XS, which is supposed to be very good. I was caught slightly off guard on this. I was promised a set of 452X with XS serving, it appears the strings are SM Dakota 8125. They box says SM Dakota. Can you visually tell the difference between 452X and 8125? I have to commend SM on customer service but I would have been much happier if the first set of strings had been as good as they were hyped. This will be the third time I will have to change strings and retune. I will reserve judgement, like I told Dave Olive, I have no complaint with the customer service, it's the product that I have a problem with. 



Mark


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

452X is heavily coated with a wax....


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

plus the 452x should be 22 strands on your string and the 8125 should be 18 or 20. i use 24 of 452x for cables though.

oh yeah, if i'm understanding correctly the diamondback is fine, and the diamondback xs (extra-strong) is even better. shoot, i believe wholesale on the xs is $17 a normal sized spool, not much cheaper than buying from lancaster. he may have busted out some stuff from his own personal stash.


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## atlasmlc (Nov 2, 2002)

I got a SM cable recently from Dave. I ordered 452x and the package was labeled as 8125. I spoke with Dave about it and the checked and told me it was 452x, just packaged wrong. It is 20 strands, I just counted it.


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

well, unless you're shooting less than 60 lbs they should not use 20 strands of 452x for cables. instead of using 2 extra strands they used 2 less. saved 6 ft of string. at over 60lbs it won't break with 20 strands, but you'll begin to lose the wonderful qualities of 452x that were the reason you went with the material. don't believe me, call chris at bcy and ask him.


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

After reading the # of strands above, I counted the ones on the new string and cable, 20. The string material is very waxy and sticky but I don't have the knowledge to tell the difference. I'm not sure how 8125 feels.  
The bow that this is going on I shoot at 68-70, I would shoot it at 70 all the time except the SM strings creep and ATA lengthens. :angry: 
All is not lost though, I have been summoned by one of the Hoyt gods to come to Mt. Waco and have him pass judgement on this issue. He has promised to lay hands on it and heal it of all it's pathetic shortcomings.  




Mark


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## bucknasty (Jun 18, 2004)

well, making a 2 color cable with seperately colored splits is very tricky with 22 strands, that's why i use 24. plus there is nothing wrong with haveing a very stable cable. it will not slow you down. it will, however, take a few more shots to settle, but it won't stretch like one with 20. the string should also be 22 for an over 60 lb bow with 452x. this is easily accomplished and your end loops look cool. that's why your losing the stability. look, i'm sorry, i'm just trying to let you know how things should be done.


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## fn257 (Dec 12, 2003)

BN, no reason to apologize for stating the truth, the learning curve is long and sometimes hard in archery. I welcome any insight that is above my own. I had noticed that the WC string in 452X was bigger than this one. Javi is gonna look at the situation on Sunday and give me some insight and help. I'll let you know the outcome.



Mark


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