# Hoyt Nexus 25 / Samick Masters comparisons



## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

Hi all, been a while since I posted here, or even logged on for that matter (life happens). I'm a total newbie to archery, and have a 32" draw. On the recommendation of Viper, I'm figuring on a 25" riser with long limbs. Still not totally sure of the weight, but I'm thinking around 30#. I've been looking at the Hoyt Nexus 25" with the ZR330 limbs (since the Stratix limbs were apparently discontinued) or a Samick Masters 25" with the Samick Universal Glass limbs. Price-wise, there's only about a $60 difference between the setups, and my pro shop doesn't stock these particular recurves so I won't have the chance to try either setup out before buying them unless someone in the Phoenix area is willing to let me try theirs. Can anyone give me a comparison of these bows? I've heard that the Samick Masters limbs are really great for guys with long draws, but does any of that translate to the Universals?

The other thing I'm wondering about is arrows. I'm totally clueless on the whole spine/length/weight thing. Easton's website suggested a few shafts (Fatboys and Lightspeeds are the two I remember), but does anyone else have suggestions? This would be strictly for target practice. Maybe after a few years of solid practice I'd feel comfortable trying out competition, but not now. Also, what about practice heads, etc? Thanks for any help!


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

Please note that draw weight is measured at 28" and will increase about 2# for every additional inch, giving you about a 38# bow, which is more than most would recommned for a new shooter. There are also some 27" risers out there (generally for a few more $), which is often a waste, but if your draw is really 32", might be worth considering. 

I assume you're measuring your draw length with a target (under the chin) anchor. Shooters often expand their draw as they discover an good in-line draw. If you're using a side (field) anchor, your true draw may be 1-2" less.

See what the others out there think.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

Heh, let me clarify a little. 30# (maybe even 32#) is the approximate weight I was going for, so I guess I should say the limbs would probably be more like 26#. 

As for my draw, 32" is what I was most comfortable with on the compounds I've tried. I can't really gauge how my draw varies with recurves because the only recurves I've shot were 60" bows, and I couldn't even draw them back all the way without pulling the arrows they had for practice at the range straight past the rest. Basically, just to try to get a semi-consistent anchor point I was sticking my thumb out like I was trying to hitch hike and touching just under my chin. I am a tall, stout guy, and I do have very long arms (39" is my shirt sleeve measurement). I was originally looking at the 27" GMX with long arms (72" bow) precisely because of my long draw, but as I mentioned in my previous post, based on Viper's advice I am now looking at a 25" riser with long limbs (70" bow).


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

the risers you have chosen are all world class and any of them can take you to the highest level...i would also recommend the GMX as another option as it also is an excellent riser...

i have not tried the universals but my samick extremes were 2-4# heavier than marked so just be on the lookout for that if you decide on the samick..you may also want to consider using matching brands for your riser and limbs in the beginning to avoid fitting problems...

you will surely be upgrading your limbs as you improve and get stronger so just get the ones now which will match your riser make....hope this helps..


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## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

I went from a Nexus to a Samick Masters over a year ago so can give my thoughts on the bows. They are both excellent and its really down to personal preference. I preferred the Masters partly due to the shape of the arrow shelf, my hand fit up to it better than the squared edge of the Nexus. Due to the position of the grips on the bows, your draw length will be slightly longer with the Masters - around 1/2" I think. Hoyt bows are easier to get spare parts for (grips, bolts, nuts etc) should you ever need to, well they are in the UK at any rate. Both are great bows and are good choices but if I had to get one now I'd pick the Masters of those two. I currently shoot a GMX and prefer it over both of them though 

As for the limbs, I havent tried or seen the Hoyt ones you mention but a few folks at our club are using the Universals and they seem ok for the price. Same brand doesnt always make for a perfect fit though. I once tried a pair of Samick Priveledge (very cheap entry level limb) in the Masters riser and they were very tight fitting, almost too hard to get out. Both W&W and Hoyt limbs fit better, though they were top of the line models. So I wouldnt worry too much about getting matching makes and just get the models you fancy.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

Thanks for the responses so far! Chances are good that unless I find a pretty convincing reason to go with another brand, I'll be going with Hoyt since that seems to be the brand most carried by my pro shop. But that's why I'm asking here - you guys are the only ones I can really ask to find out if there IS something about the Samick gear that would suit me better.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

Also, anyone have thoughts on arrows?


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## ButchD (Nov 11, 2006)

I'd look at Easton Platinum plus, 2016 which according to Easton, is a 32" shaft, and close to your spine recomendation. Mo sense spending more than this for your first set, srrows can get pretty beat up. The folks at the shop can fine tune this. Good luck! Butch


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

Got to check out the 27" GMX with long 28# Stratix limbs (the ones that were replaced with the ZR330s this year). I think we have a winner, folks. The draw was like butter and it felt perfect in my hand. I didn't get to actually shoot it (it was the owner's bow, and he wasn't there, so, understandably, the guy at the store wasn't too keen on letting someone else shoot it without the owner there.

The guy at the store also recommended aluminum arrows for my draw length because there were more aluminum shafts than carbon shafts that were long enough, giving me more options.

The only thing they couldn't really answer for me was how long it would take for the gear to arrive when ordered. The guy said if it was in stock at Hoyt it'd be about a week, otherwise they couldn't really give an accurate quote.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

if ur in a hurry suggest you check out Lancaster Archery Supply...if it's on stock you can have it in 2 days or less...LAS is one of the biggest dealer of hoyt recurves in the USA and normally keep a good supply of stocks on hand...


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

jmvargas said:


> if ur in a hurry suggest you check out Lancaster Archery Supply...if it's on stock you can have it in 2 days or less...LAS is one of the biggest dealer of hoyt recurves in the USA and normally keep a good supply of stocks on hand...


That's exactly where I've been looking other than my pro shop. I'd really like to order from my pro shop (trying to support the small local business), but I'm not going to wait for months to get my gear. I don't have a bow yet, and I'm anxious to get going!


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## slade (Feb 21, 2003)

Try a Carbon Express 150 they are 33''s long. They shoot great out of my 34# Tamerlane, if they are a little stiff out of your 30# limbs add a little weight up front.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

slade said:


> Try a Carbon Express 150 they are 33''s long. They shoot great out of my 34# Tamerlane, if they are a little stiff out of your 30# limbs add a little weight up front.


Whew! Those are pricey!  Well, they were in the couple of places I looked online....


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## hockeyref (Jun 2, 2006)

Brock,
Just in case no one has already done so, I would like to welcome you to a small and frustrating club know as the "Sasquatch\ape armed archers". You are automatically a member if your draw length is 31" or longer. We need to stick together as it was\is difficult for us to find bows that fit, and don't stack too severely, as well as arrows that will tune correctly and be long enough for us.

If you are just starting out figure to be jumping up in draw weight - and probably length - as your form stabilizes. I would suggest staying with the less expensive aluminum arrows for a little while. I started out coming from 70# Trad hunting bows and corner of mouth anchor... ~31.5" draw with woodies and was seriously looking at footing the shafts for more length to get ther broadhead away from my fingers. I switched to Oly recurve and under chin anchor and am now a shade over 32".... I expect this to lengthen just a little more. My sleeve is 37.5 and chest is ~56" so I'm kinda large all around... I predict that you may end up over 33" with that sleeve length and good form. great fot the power stroke, bad for finding less than top shelf gear that fits and works. I really want to try a 27" riser but cannot justify the cost as I am doing this because I like it and shoot an occasional indoor league. I do have the benefit of having my own 70 yard outdoor target butt set up...

I still use the original cheapie Eason "Blues" I pruchased when i got into the Oly recurve, full length with NIBBS. I was on a tight budget so I got full length shafts and built them my self (Have all the jigs and stuff as well as experience so no biggie) but you can get MTO's pretty cheap and they are about 1/2 the cost of the MTO platinums which will hurt less WHEN you lose or trash them while learning. As for "are they good enough" to learn on? They are a couple thousands looser on the straightness tolerance, and are a lesser aluminum alloy, but I've replaced enough nocks and have a robin hood on the wall that says that they are good enough for entry level indoors.

I've shot a couple different CX shafts (maxima 250's and CX black 200's), and I'm about to send some money off to get some used navigators. Can't have enough gear or bows ya know... BTW - I'm shooting a 25" Hoyt GM with long W&W Everest Pro limbs marked at 36# that give me 47# on my fingers wth the 32ish inch draw.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

hockeyref said:


> Brock,
> Just in case no one has already done so, I would like to welcome you to a small and frustrating club know as the "Sasquatch\ape armed archers". You are automatically a member if your draw length is 31" or longer. We need to stick together as it was\is difficult for us to find bows that fit, and don't stack too severely, as well as arrows that will tune correctly and be long enough for us.


Even if my draw didn't qualify me, would my size 15 extra-wide feet do the trick? :darkbeer: Talk about frustration, there are far more options for archery gear than there are footwear for me! The only hurdle that I can actively try to avoid is the fact that I'm left-handed and left-eye dominant. The guys at the pro shop basically said, "If you can close your left eye and still shoot, go right-handed!" I can, so I'm going to use right-handed stuff. At least, that's the plan. I'm pretty sure everything I'm looking at is available left-handed as well, so I'm giving a little bit of thought to it.



hockeyref said:


> If you are just starting out figure to be jumping up in draw weight - and probably length - as your form stabilizes. I would suggest staying with the less expensive aluminum arrows for a little while. I started out coming from 70# Trad hunting bows and corner of mouth anchor... ~31.5" draw with woodies and was seriously looking at footing the shafts for more length to get ther broadhead away from my fingers. I switched to Oly recurve and under chin anchor and am now a shade over 32".... I expect this to lengthen just a little more. My sleeve is 37.5 and chest is ~56" so I'm kinda large all around... I predict that you may end up over 33" with that sleeve length and good form. great fot the power stroke, bad for finding less than top shelf gear that fits and works. I really want to try a 27" riser but cannot justify the cost as I am doing this because I like it and shoot an occasional indoor league. I do have the benefit of having my own 70 yard outdoor target butt set up...


IIRC, my chest is right around 60", so yeah, I'm kind of a big guy (hoping to become a little less stout this year). I've heard that your draw can increase, so that is one thing I'm thinking about. The owner of the pro shop (the guy whose GMX I checked out) is 6'8" and has a THIRTY-SIX INCH DRAW (!!!), so I'm thinking I may end up closer to that than my current 32". He talked to the engineer from Hoyt at a trade show, and they kinda figured out what'd work best for him - that's where the GMX setup came from, and they ended up custom-making shafts for him.



hockeyref said:


> I still use the original cheapie Eason "Blues" I pruchased when i got into the Oly recurve, full length with NIBBS. I was on a tight budget so I got full length shafts and built them my self (Have all the jigs and stuff as well as experience so no biggie) but you can get MTO's pretty cheap and they are about 1/2 the cost of the MTO platinums which will hurt less WHEN you lose or trash them while learning. As for "are they good enough" to learn on? They are a couple thousands looser on the straightness tolerance, and are a lesser aluminum alloy, but I've replaced enough nocks and have a robin hood on the wall that says that they are good enough for entry level indoors.


I plan on going with cheapie alloy shafts to start with. I was thinking about the Platinum Plusses, but I think I'll have to look into those Blues shafts.



hockeyref said:


> I've shot a couple different CX shafts (maxima 250's and CX black 200's), and I'm about to send some money off to get some used navigators. Can't have enough gear or bows ya know... BTW - I'm shooting a 25" Hoyt GM with long W&W Everest Pro limbs marked at 36# that give me 47# on my fingers wth the 32ish inch draw.


I'll just be getting one bow for now, but we'll see what happens in the future. Oh, and for the record, me actual name is Joe - Brock Samson is a character from The Venture Bros. It's a wierd, but funny, spoof of Johnny Quest. Check it out!


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## hockeyref (Jun 2, 2006)

Joe,
You are about to dump huge cash on a riser and all of the rest of the hardware. You are just starting out.... GET WHAT IS CORRECT FOR YOU. IF YOU ARE LEFTY AND LEFT EYE DOMINANT THEN GET A FRIGGING LEFTY RISER! DON"T COMPROMISE IT WILL COME BACK TO BITE YOU IN THE ***** AND WALLET LATER! 

Sorry for shouting but getting a right hand riser if you are fully a lefty would be a huge mistake IMHO. Yeah you can close your dominant eye and that'll work OK until the eye strain starts playing havoc with you.... My wife and older daughter are right handed and left eye dom.... they are learning to shoot lefty.. rifles, pistols, bows.. everything. My younger daughter is a full on lefty but show sighns of being ambidextrous with a lot of stuff..... Again we are staying with the dominant eye. The big downside to being lefty is the smaller pool of used goodies..... 

On the shafts... the cheap way to go to get started "could" be the blues or the Platinums... and that will really depend on whether you can get a shaft long enough for your draw length and spined for the draw weight MEASURED at your length. The CX Blacks (or maybe the GT Entrada) may just be an option if they have a longer raw shaft length than the aluminums. The blues and the Platinums are full length raw shaft at 32".... I would seriously considering calling Easton, Carbon Express, GT, and any others you can get contact info for and see what they have to say.... BYPASS THE LOCAL SHOP AND TALK TO THEIR ENGINEERS, then take that info back to the local shop if you want them to order shafts or build arrows for you. This is gonna be a tough decision - one that could get expensive if you choose poorly. As your form improves and you begin to use proper back tension instead of shoulder muscle to draw, yes your draw length will often increase. Likewise, a change in anchor from cheek\corner of mouth to under chin usually often has the same lengthening effect. For us longer individuals this makes it tough because we don't have several inches of extra shaft to leave them a little long. 

On the riser and limbs, I'm not gonna dispute Viper's advice on the riser - 25" riser with long limbs is a minimum... 27" with longs would possibly be better but way more espensive.... and I'm absolutely sure that he gave you a recomendation on a max draw weight to start at. I would tell you from experience to subtract about 12 pounds from that figure and look fo LONG limbs in that weight... ie: if you want to be around 30# on your fingers then look for 18# to 20# limbs... Look at used, look at entry level as you will be trading up as you get stronger and want more draw weight. And yes you will be buying new arrows when you get heavier limbs. I had the benefit of years of shooting really heavy bows and dropped 25# in draw weight when I bought my set up. I was pretty much able to figure where I wanted to be and buy a decent set of used limbs that put me right there. For me, now it's just a matter of breakage or wanting something new...


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## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

I would agree with the above poster, if you're full lefty get left handed kit. When you're cross-dominant you can train either to your handedness or eye dominance with good results but to completely against your body will be making life hard for yourself.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

I'm kinda weird on the whole lefty thing, somewhat ambidextrous. I shoot rifles left-handed and pistols right-handed. The big thing I guess is the fact that I am left eye dominant. Seeing as how there is no price difference between right and left-handed gear, at least on the stuff I'm looking at, I'll have to try shooting lefty and see how I do. As for the 27" riser, it's only $50 more, so it's not too bad. I mean, if I'm already going to spend that kind of coin, $50 isn't going to make or break the sale. Plus, I've read that guys with larger fingers benefit from longer risers due to the larger angle of the string.

It's kind of a tricky situation with the limbs. It's highly unlikely that I'll be able to buy new limbs simply because I'm ready to increase weight, unless that great-paying job magically appears for me, so whatever I start with is what I'll have for a while. That's why I'm not too upset about maybe going a little higher than is recommended. I'm a pretty strong guy, too, so I don't think it'll be a problem. Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on ordering 40# limbs or anything, but I think I could do with 28 or 30# limbs no problem.


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## hockeyref (Jun 2, 2006)

Brock Samson said:


> I'm kinda weird on the whole lefty thing, somewhat ambidextrous. I shoot rifles left-handed and pistols right-handed. The big thing I guess is the fact that I am left eye dominant. Seeing as how there is no price difference between right and left-handed gear, at least on the stuff I'm looking at, I'll have to try shooting lefty and see how I do. As for the 27" riser, it's only $50 more, so it's not too bad. I mean, if I'm already going to spend that kind of coin, $50 isn't going to make or break the sale. Plus, I've read that guys with larger fingers benefit from longer risers due to the larger angle of the string.
> 
> It's kind of a tricky situation with the limbs. It's highly unlikely that I'll be able to buy new limbs simply because I'm ready to increase weight, unless that great-paying job magically appears for me, so whatever I start with is what I'll have for a while. That's why I'm not too upset about maybe going a little higher than is recommended. I'm a pretty strong guy, too, so I don't think it'll be a problem. Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on ordering 40# limbs or anything, but I think I could do with 28 or 30# limbs no problem.


Well, you're starting to get it..... you can shoot indoors with no problem holding 30# on your fingers. You "might" be able to learn good form with 30# on your fingers, but you are not gonna learn to shoot properly holding 40#+..... 

LET ME REITERATE THIS - If the limbs are marked 28#@28" DL - for YOU they will be 40#+ on the fingers! You will NOT learn good form starting out with 40# on yer fingers.... I was shooting a MEASURED 70#+ for 20 years before getting an OLY RC and DROPPING to 47#.... If you "did" order 40# limbs than you would be up near 55# at YOUR draw length!

A little story about a "strong dude"... I once bought a 60# recurve for a song and dance from a bodybuilder\powerlifter type guy that I worked with at the time. He was heavy into the training wheel\cam bows and had one that was ~80# (but huge letoff). He wanted to get into Trad and figured that since he was a "stong weightlifter dude" he could easily handle that measly 60# recurve. After all, he was pulling 80# with his compound! Well, he doesn't listen to me. He buys the bow based on his ego and tries to pull it. Right where he would cam over with his compound he starts to hit the wall. Gets it near full draw and shaking all over the place..... he fought with it for a summer and developed all sorts of bad habits.... He never got to the point where he could draw it and hold anchor... Best case was snap shooting it when he got within an inch of his chin.... He sold it to me at a huge loss and was still pissed that he was so much stronger than me, but couldn't draw that beastie.

Look around for USED limbs, or get the entry level $100 ILF limbs new to start out. You can always go back to them to work form if you don't sell them later to help defray the cost of upgrades. Unless you have already developed the "archery muscles" and your form, you will need to start lower and build up. This will necessitate a couple sets of limbs and a couple sets of arrows. The only benefit for you is that the arrows will probably be resellable as they will be pretty much full length and leave plenty to cut down for most other archers.

You don't believe me.... ask Viper.....:darkbeer:


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

Yeah, I know I shouldn't start out too high. 30-32# is where I think I should start, so the would be about a 22-24# limb at my draw, right? Believe me, ego plays no role in what I'm looking at in terms of draw weight. The only driving factor behind any consideration of going higher is the fact that it will be a long time before I can replace any limbs I get with limbs of a higher weight. Quite frankly, all of this pretty much hinges on getting a good tax return, which I should. There's no way I could afford any of this with just my income. Even the cheapest stuff would be a bit of a stretch.

I was looking to get the entry level limbs, but unfortunately Hoyt doesn't make them in the long size. Excels are short and medium only, so that's why I'm looking at the next level up, previously Stratix, now ZR330. I figure they're still not nearly as expensive as the higher-end stuff, but should still do a good job.

In terms of leaning toward a 27" riser, that's partially listening to other threads, partially planning for the likelihood that my draw will increase as I learn. Like I said, I think it's worth an extra $50 now rather than buying another riser down the line.


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## hockeyref (Jun 2, 2006)

Sorry, the wording sounded like you wanted to start with 30# Limbs, not 30# draw wt. (still think starting at 30# may be pushing it a little but could work out). If I were you, I would definitely Err on the cautious side... and go no heavier than 18# limbs to start out. Like I said... I suspect that you will end up with a LOOOONG draw. Limbs you can find, shafts on the other hand....:sad: I would get to a shop that knows proper technique for drawing and anchoring a recurve and get measured on a VERY light bow so that you have a better idea of what you are dealing with. Then, do some legwork looking for shaft info (call the mfg's not the archery shops) once you know how long you will need.

BTW:

Lancaster lists the following entry level limbs in the 2010 catalogue - granted, given the discussion on the ILF vs whatever Hoyt is now calling the fittings could make it more difficult with their dimensional changes. (Gee, this sounds like a case where mix n match would be the preferred method).

Samick Privledge - $~90.00 = 16 - 38 pounds
KAP T-REX - ~$90.00 - 16 - 36 pounds.

This is about as cheap as you can get and still get new.... Like I said, check the used market and you may get higher end limbs for a little bit more $.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

I've read a few things about Hoyt's "little changes", and it kinda makes me consider other brands. That and the fact that it seems like the wait times for Hoyt gear is ridiculous,and the wait times for, say, Samick or W&W gear seems to be however long FedEx takes to drop it at your door. I've been curious about the Inno riser as well as the GMX. I've also been curious about the Samick Masters, but it seems that most of the people shooting Samick prefer that Aguila riser that was discontinued. Any thoughts on the Inno? It's more expensive than the GMX, but if I paired it with one of the cheaper KAP limbs, it'd end up costing about the same, if not less, than the GMX/ZR330 combo. I'm not stuck on Hoyt, it's just the first stuff I was introduced to.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

Here's a question - I've read that on a 23" riser, you add 2# to the marked weight on a set of limbs, and that you subtract 2# on a 27" riser. Is this correct? If so, that would mean that with a 32" draw on a 27" riser a set of 26# limbs would be more like 30# for me instead of 32#, right?


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## slade (Feb 21, 2003)

32" minus 28" = 4 inches, 4" x2lbs = 8lbs, 26lbs plus 8lbs = 34lbs, minus 2lbs for the 27' riser = 32lbs.


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## pgp (Sep 11, 2008)

You've mentioned the Agulla from Samick which has been discontinued..I am guessing you are referring to the Ultra Agulla then and not the regular ( cheaper) one still available in North America. If you so desire, it is still possible to purchase the Ultra Agulla directly from the Samick headquarters in Korea. I inquired last year when considering buying it over a Masters. Samick in Korea answered me right away, they had some in stock and they were going to ship it to North America for 30 USD ( which is not too bad at all actually). However, they recommended purchasing a Masters riser over the Ultra ( don't really know why they recommended this), but assured me that I could get an Ultra from them if preferred. I ended up buying a Masters ( which I really like ), I should add however that I never shot an Ultra so wouldn't be able to comment between these two Samick risers ( I owned a Nexus 23in before moving on to the 25in Masters) Good luck with your final decision in any case


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

slade - That's what I get for not looking at the number pad when I type.

pgp - That's exactly the riser I was talking about.

I'm still up in the air about which riser, and even the 25" vs 27" lengths. I can see the pros and cons of both. From what I've read, the 27" will get me a bit smoother draw, and the 25" will get me a little more power.

The jury's still out. For 27", the GMX and the Inno are it. At 25", the Samick Masters enters the fray. As always, opinions are much appreciated!


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## pgp (Sep 11, 2008)

I'll second Acehero's opinion on Nexus vs Samick. In my case though, I moved from a 23 in riser (Nexus) to a 25in Samick so the comparison might not be so clear cut ( lost a tiny tiny bit of cast going to the 25 in but gained more "forgiveness" and less "fingerpinch". ). The Samick felt like a much better fit for me but as stated above, part of this might be due to the length difference. Masters is very stable in the hand, the handle's oval shape feels a bit odd at first but it seems to help prevent bow hand rotation upon release ( in my case, anyways). 

It should be noted that quite a lot of archers here seem to really enjoy shooting with the GMX ( especially the 27in for those blessed with a long draw). So you might want to keep that option in mind as well. 

Hope this help. ( note: I liked the Nexus as well, fun and lively bow to shoot with. I just preferred the feel of the Samick personally...)


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

That "finger pinch" is one of the reasons I'm leaning toward the 27" riser. I've read that the string angle is more user-friendly for guys with larger hands, and I've got some beefy hands!

The GMX is still in the running. It's the only riser I've actually gotten to hold, so it's the only one that I can say anything about from experience - and it was NICE. I didn't get to shoot it, only draw it. It had a set of long 28# Stratix limbs on it, and it was nice and smooth. This is why I'm trying to get as much info and as many opinions as I can!


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