# Where have all the finger shooters gone?



## grantmac

Recurves.


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## capool

I’ve been wondering the same thing why would they go to recurves?


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## grantmac

Because finger shot compounds are an evolutionary dead end?


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## Tim J Hoeck

hate to hear that. I started it out shooting compound with fingers in the mid to late 70's to late 90's and then to recurve's and still mess around with with compounds with fingers. I hunt with both now days. I am starting to shoot the compound more and more due to back surgery's. I see alot of people who shoot recurve's that should't or they need to shoot lower poundage. I guess were dying breed.


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## wa-prez

I still shoot Compound Fingers (FSL as NFAA calls it). 

I just got done checking, there are 19 of us registered for that category at The Vegas Shoot. Last 2-3 years there were about 30.

Yes, it is hard to find a compound bow with a comfortable axle-to-axle to shoot with fingers. I still love my Barnsdale Classic X which I got about 16 years ago and have been shooting ever since.


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## fmoss3

There are still quite a few fingers shooters out here. I believe that NFAA & ASA & IBO have priced us out of the shoots.
I still shoot regional shoots but not nationals.


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## Buckshot1822

I switched to release last year after shooting fingers for 25 years. The main reason for switching was bow choices. The last 6 years I shot a switchback long draw at 28" fingers.


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## Buckshot1822

I switched to a release last year after shooting fingers for 25 years. The main reason was lack of bow choices.


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## minnie3

I shot a brand new Browning Micro Midas in the womens 3d (IBO style) barebow division as a beginner with my first bow 8 years ago. 
En joyed being among the other barebow shooters at the 3d shoots where I learnt a lot from the older shooters, many of the men had competed in world IFAA as far back as the 1970's.
With a 23" DL I was able to manage shorter bows than most finger shooters. Hardest part was finding anything I could shoot at 23"DL 30-40# that wasn't either a kid's bow or a pink hunting bow meant for shooting with a release. 
I competed for a few years with a beautiful Martin Mystic Elite(Furious X) then a Barnsdale Classic X - both found on the forum classifieds after searching regularly while being patient. Bought both of these based on the specs, without even ever having seen either of these here in Australia. Both good buys and great shooting bows. Both shot at 37-38# with 23.5"DL
,Learnt to string walk when I bought the 38" ATA Barney.The last time I shot the Barney in competition was at the World IFAA 2016 here in Australia, and there were the most finger shooters (I'm talking barebow/bowhunter no sight) I'd seen. Great experience shooting there and meeting some of the people I'd seen mentioned or had posted on these forums and FB groups. 

All the while I had also been enjoying the fun of the odd traditional (off the shelf/ timber arrows with feathers rules) events with a basic Samick Sage recurve and some custom timbers which cost more than the $139 I paid for the bow direct from Samick in Korea 5 years ago. Something with shooting the single string bow got my interest. It was also physically lighter in the hand. Bought an ILF recurve to play with over the off seasons, set it up for string walking and shot barebow recurve in a few indoor comps before giving 3d a go in the same barebow division I'd shot compound in, sometimes shooting a recurve on day 1 then the Barney on day 2. 2017 I shot barebow recurve exclusively and went to a World Archery (FITA) style bow as I now shoot WA field as well as 3d with W&W InnoCRX/EXpowers.

The bow guy here who did my Barnsdale strings and cables said he enjoyed working with it and was one of the best designed and quality bows he'd ever worked on.
I am keeping it safely in it's bag for now, and would recommend a Barnsdale Classic X a finger shooting bow.


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## lees

Instinktifling said:


> There used to be a lot of posts in this section, now it's hardly anything new anymore. Where have all the finger shooters gone...to releases? Say it ain't so!


Yes, most went to release aids. Victims of the speed crazes that began in the 90's is what I've observed. Everyone all of a sudden started wanting everything to go faster, so the bows began to get shorter and more violent. Then the overdraw craze hit in desperate bids to speed up the existing longer ATA wheel bows - at one point you almost couldn't fit a regular rest to a bow and you had to go with an overdraw just to put a rest of any kind on the darn thing. My Prostar Meridian had a 3" overdraw on it even though I didn't want an overdraw at all. But that was the only way I could fit a good prong rest to it.

By the latter part of the decade, everything was going nice and fast, but it all sounded like a .410 going off and the arrows weren't actually hitting anything being aimed at. This really affected finger shooters the worst: a 42" super slam-cam bow with a 6" overdraw on it was practically impossible to shoot with fingers. But that was all that was on the shelves at the local shops. 

So, whether anyone wanted to or not, we all had to migrate to release aids and d-loops just as a simple matter of bow availability and partly as a matter of being competitive in the burgeoning 3D shooting competition industry. There was no other way to hit the target with the new slam-cams nearly dry firing aluminum crossbow bolts 20" long off a 6" overdraw.

The rest is history; the industry basically just never went back. Carbon arrows were discovered and overdraws disappeared, but the bows on the market today are as violent and aggressive as ever and still keep on being too slow year after year. With some improvements here and there like better draw profiles, parallel limbs and few other things, but it continues on. Many are so short and harsh that they're barely even shootable with a release aid, much less with fingers...

So unfortunately finger shooting was left behind, generally by the bow industry, over 20 years ago and is now becoming a lost art. There are some die-hards out there who have hung on as the finger bow choices on the market dwindled. Hoyt only quit making the Tribute this year.

I still have my Tribute (and will never get rid of it) but even I haven't set it up for fingers. I started off as a FSL shooter with an old Darton conventional handle bow with wood limbs and was one for several years with that bow. I've been tempted to try it on my Tribute, but haven't wanted to spend the money on a new rest and a clicker. It's on my ToDo list, though....

lee.


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## cheeney

It is not a dead end if you learn to shoot modern compounds with fingers. I was shooting a 31 inch ATA bow fingers and no sights early in the season and killed a buck and turkey. You can shoot any bow if you shoot 2 under. 

I just recently bought an Oneida Phoenix to shoot and have fallen in love with it for fingers


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## Ack

Still around and still killing deer every year shooting with fingers. I don't buy the modern bow excuse.....there are still options out there, and nothing wrong with shooting an older bow if you truly enjoy shooting with fingers.


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## Spider bow

Just a question here, I have a buddy who shoots fingers and he is looking for a more modern bow. Preferably a Mathews. Any recommendations? I’m doing the looking for him since he doesn’t internet. Currently he’s shooting an early 90s Mathews I believe. 

On another note, is there a preferred rest for fingers??


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## lundy

Elite V 39.

Springy rest.


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## rsarns

Spider bow said:


> Just a question here, I have a buddy who shoots fingers and he is looking for a more modern bow. Preferably a Mathews. Any recommendations? I’m doing the looking for him since he doesn’t internet. Currently he’s shooting an early 90s Mathews I believe.
> 
> On another note, is there a preferred rest for fingers??


Apex 8 is a good finger bow from Mathews. It was made up to a couple years ago


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## equilibrium

*Nobody, has a Apex 8.*


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## zmk

Athens Excell, Strother Moxie and Elite V39
Timberdoodle Rest


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## Ack

I shoot a Mathews Triumph, Drenalin LD and Ovation.....all good finger options. The LD is a little finicky though.

For hunting purposes a Whisker Biscuit is the way to go.....use one on all my bows.


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## lees

cheeney said:


> It is not a dead end if you learn to shoot modern compounds with fingers. I was shooting a 31 inch ATA bow fingers and no sights early in the season and killed a buck and turkey. You can shoot any bow if you shoot 2 under.
> 
> I just recently bought an Oneida Phoenix to shoot and have fallen in love with it for fingers


Whoever that poster was with the "evolutionary dead end" comment probably doesn't even shoot fingers, or shoot much archery at all, I would suspect. So I wouldn't put any weight on that judgment. Fingers is a time-honored technique, in fact going back many thousands of years in human prehistory as I think we all know . It's still an art form as much as it is a craft....

As I said earlier, though, the short ATA slam-cam bow craze did make finger shooting more difficult on those bows. And my experience has been that that's what moved the majority of finger shooters I know into release aids. It was a simple matter of bow availability over time. 

I will say that I tried fingers on my Supra Max a while back - 2 under - and it didn't derail, I'll put it that way . The medium hard back wall might make using a clicker with it a little hair-trigger but, truth be told, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked fine fingers with a Bodoodle and a clicker on it, some appropriately spined arrows and some practice.... 

lee.


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## archer_nm

Last time I looked most Recurve shooters were using their fingers


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## shadowhunter

Hey Spider Bow,
A NAP centerrest flipper rest is about as simple and easy as it gets for fingers.


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## capool

Hey ack do you shoot split or 3 under?


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## grantmac

lees said:


> Whoever that poster was with the "evolutionary dead end" comment probably doesn't even shoot fingers, or shoot much archery at all, I would suspect. So I wouldn't put any weight on that judgment. Fingers is a time-honored technique, in fact going back many thousands of years in human prehistory as I think we all know . It's still an art form as much as it is a craft....
> 
> As I said earlier, though, the short ATA slam-cam bow craze did make finger shooting more difficult on those bows. And my experience has been that that's what moved the majority of finger shooters I know into release aids. It was a simple matter of bow availability over time.
> 
> I will say that I tried fingers on my Supra Max a while back - 2 under - and it didn't derail, I'll put it that way . The medium hard back wall might make using a clicker with it a little hair-trigger but, truth be told, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked fine fingers with a Bodoodle and a clicker on it, some appropriately spined arrows and some practice....
> 
> lee.


Swing and a miss but thanks for coming out. 
I shoot World Archery Barebow, NFAA trad and freestyle. In the past I shot NFAA Barebow with a Protec LX and accu-wheels stringwalking. Shooting a higher let off bow with a clicker is also possible if you get creative (played with it using a Shadowcat) but not generally possible using a blade clicker.

All that aside, shooting a compound with fingers in competition is a relic and does nothing to further archery as a sport since it promotes niche classes without international recognition.


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## lees

archer_nm said:


> Last time I looked most Recurve shooters were using their fingers


Actually, I just got out my recurve today and had a go. Due to injury my 16lb recurve is the only thing I can draw anyway.... But what fun! Until I couldn't hang on to the string anymore 

lee.


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## PhilBob

Since this has come up, I want to say that according to "what everybody says" I should be having all kinds of problems with shooting my 34" Diamond Liberty with my fingers at a 30" draw, and in some ways it feels like a better "fingers bow" than my 40" Martin Scepter V.


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## b0w_bender

PhilBob said:


> Since this has come up, I want to say that according to "what everybody says" I should be having all kinds of problems with shooting my 34" Diamond Liberty with my fingers at a 30" draw, and in some ways it feels like a better "fingers bow" than my 40" Martin Scepter V.


If you like it shoot it.
Most people, my self included, find that the shorter bows compress your fingers more and make it more difficult to get a good release. 

I never found the finger pinch to be painful but I have found that it causes me a lot more difficulty in having a consistent clean release. If yours is working for you then by all means keep the bow, but your experience would be a bit anomalous. 


I'm thinking there are a few major reasons why the finger shooters are likely dwindling. The bows are shorter making it harder to shoot with fingers. The only bow I was able to find over 40" was a Mathews, I don't think anyone else makes one anymore. The USArchery has completely removed all compound finger shooting classes. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see everyone else eventually follow suite. Coaches and Pro-shops are not teaching kids to shoot with fingers and a compound (outside of NASP).

So limited equipment, limited competition, very few replacements for the retiring shooters, all spell doom for the compound finger shooters. It is sad because I have tried a release and I simply do not enjoy pulling a trigger.


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## Ack

capool said:


> Hey ack do you shoot split or 3 under?


Split


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## PhilBob

b0w_bender said:


> If you like it shoot it... If yours is working for you then by all means keep the bow, but your experience would be a bit anomalous.


Thanks very much, I appreciate your well-reasoned advice.


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## rsarns

equilibrium said:


> *Nobody, has a Apex 8.*


Lol


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## trainer_will

I still shoot fingers (FSL) and have no desire to switch to a release. I shoot a lot of the local and state shoots, but lately haven't been shooting enough to feel comfortable shooting at the sectional or national shoots. Recently I have gotten interested in making self bows (long bows) and have really enjoyed the satisfaction of taking a piece of wood and forming a bow out of it and then shooting it.


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## Jake Vance

I have been shooting compound fingers for going on 3 years. Love it. No plans to switch. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jake Vance

Ack said:


> Still around and still killing deer every year shooting with fingers. I don't buy the modern bow excuse.....there are still options out there, and nothing wrong with shooting an older bow if you truly enjoy shooting with fingers.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jake Vance

rsarns said:


> Lol


I have an Apex 8 with Hoyt DFX cams on it presently. My uncle cooked it up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fmoss3

I believe that with a little practice, a fingers shooter can beat most release shooters. We have one here in KY that shoots 300 w/h 58 X's. Won't shoot nationals or Vegas>>>>>Shoots release about the same.


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## turkster

Shoot fings for awhile now. Have 3 i shoot and have tried lots with fings. liked the Monstercant remember what yr but its an earlier one. And its pretty quick. After all if your hunting, people been killing game with a stck and string for ages.


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## rsarns

New record of B.B. in Vegas this year again, 78 last year and 82 so far this year. Big jump since the 30’s we used to get. FSL has a decent number usually also


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## wa-prez

rsarns said:


> New record of B.B. in Vegas this year again, 78 last year and 82 so far this year. Big jump since the 30’s we used to get. FSL has a decent number usually also


Yay, I just checked and Compound Limited Flights (FSL) is up to 27 finally. So we should have about the same numbers as last year. Hope it still grows some.


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## BLGreenway

Still a finger shooting compound bow man here in Pittsburgh. I'm shooting a 22 year old Hoy Pro Star Legacy. How long can it hold up? I often think that I am probably one broken part away from having to start down the release path. I enjoy the challenge of fingers - so hopefully I have years to go.


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## shadowhunter

I have four older (28) Hoyts that still shoot great with fingers. Don't give up yet. The antiques are out there.


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## turkster

Shooting a couple of Conquest 4's luv em. Also a Champion ScorpionETS its only 38" but thats what I started with. Conquest got me a bronze in the National indoor3d and a silver in national indoor spots few yrs back. Dont shoot as much at all, but will still shoot fingers.


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## turkster

Can still find the Conquests around.


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## twofinger

i shoot hoyt prostar meridian and my back up is a pse magna 
both old but they get the arrow to the target thats all i care about.

fingers! Gods perfect release!


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## RCW 24601

With apologies to to Mr. Fezziwig:

“It’s not just for speed and overcoming human limitations that one spends a lifetime shooting a bow and arrow with fingers, it’s to preserve a way of life that one knew, and loved. No, I can’t see my way to selling out to the new vested interests of Big Archery. I’ll have to be loyal to the old ways and die out with them if needs must.”


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## Robert58

We had a lot of young shooters in Barbow this year at State Indoor. We even had 5 or 6 new Freestyle Limited shooters. Mostly Male and one Female. We had three shooters in the AMFSL class this year. The State Champion shoots consistent high 290's. Usually 297 to 300. Shot 298 on Saturday. Then slacked off on Sunday with a 294. Finger shooting is picking up in Texas.

I shot Indoor last year and this year. Going to try to shoot Field also this year. I hurt my neck and couldn't turn my neck to the left to shoot about 5 years ago. But my neck is getting better. Man am I out of shape. Going to be tuff shooting Field.

Just won a Sure-Loc Supreme 550 on E-bay today. Can't wait to try it.


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## itbeso

fmoss3 said:


> I believe that with a little practice, a fingers shooter can beat most release shooters. We have one here in KY that shoots 300 w/h 58 X's. Won't shoot nationals or Vegas>>>>>Shoots release about the same.


Frank, you're getting a little carried away, aren't you?


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## TNMAN

itbeso said:


> Frank, you're getting a little carried away, aren't you?


Could be so. There is a guy in Franks club that shot 300/56x in SMFSL at the last few SE Sectionals.


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## fmoss3

Check the bio for Tony Foster. He is from Marion, KY.
He shoots FS/LIM a lot.
Past shooter was Billy Boyd from New Albany, IN.
Both shooters had consistent scores in the 56-59 X count


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## itbeso

fmoss3 said:


> Check the bio for Tony Foster. He is from Marion, KY.
> He shoots FS/LIM a lot.
> Past shooter was Billy Boyd from New Albany, IN.
> Both shooters had consistent scores in the 56-59 X count


Frank, Bill Boyd was a heck of an archer, may still be, but consistent scores and occasional score are not one and the same. I don't know Tony Foster, but I do know the scenario. Years ago, in the 70s, I shot bowhunter with Cal Vogt and that group. In 1974, in Golden Colorado, there was an archer who came up from Texas, who supposedly was shooting 530-540 on the old face, bowhunter style. Those scores, at the time, would have put the records in the stratosphere. Well, the first day he shot around 470 and the next day, he shot about the same. He went back to Texas that night and I never saw him again since. Still heard stories about him being the best ever though. Local legends are a dime a dozen. By the way, what is the national indoor record for freestyle limited?


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## itbeso

Frank, checked out Tony Foster and he is indeed a shooter. You did exaggerate the accuracy aspect but that is common in this sport.


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## grantmac

People keep telling me about a guy who shot a 300 BB "back in the day" in Washington, but nobody remembers the name and it wasn't in any sort of organized competition.
So as with most claims I take with a bug pinch of salt, slice of lime and shot of tequila.


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## cottonstalk

I still fling a few with fingers. Occasionally I'll shoot a 3d but primarily a hunter shooting an old Miles Keller xi legend and a old pearson classic. But I'm always on the lookout for some older finger bow possibilities for the time my legend goes kerplunk.


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## trickyfl

Mr Frank Gandy from Florida back in 85 shot 300 them 299 still stands as the record .


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## BareBow1!

Maybe someday the industry and public will come to their senses but I doubt it,nothing ever seem to get better, only worse. Anyway anyone looking to shoot fingers only has to go to ebay. Tens of hundreds of thousands if not millions of finger bows (38" and over) are out there,some with a little TLC,lighter draw weights and heavy arrows they will last just about forever....and if if busts cry 5 minutes and go bid on another one. I have 2 models I shoot and am on the lookout for on ebay all the time. I bought 3 of one and have 1 of the other and will buy a couple more when I find them in the right DL and DW. If you want to shoot fingers, finding a bow is the least of your concerns.


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## Naidan

BareBow1! said:


> Maybe someday the industry and public will come to their senses but I doubt it,nothing ever seem to get better, only worse. Anyway anyone looking to shoot fingers only has to go to ebay. Tens of hundreds of thousands if not millions of finger bows (38" and over) are out there,some with a little TLC,lighter draw weights and heavy arrows they will last just about forever....and if if busts cry 5 minutes and go bid on another one. I have 2 models I shoot and am on the lookout for on ebay all the time. I bought 3 of one and have 1 of the other and will buy a couple more when I find them in the right DL and DW. If you want to shoot fingers, finding a bow is the least of your concerns.


100% agree. Thanks for everyones help in my thread for suggestions for a new finger shooting bow. My Mathews Apex 8 just arrived today and I am waiting for a postage quote and will be getting a Martin Scepter V. It took a little research and investigation but there are plenty of options out there for the dedicated finger shooter. Good luck to all of you and straight shooting.


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## big cypress

pretty relevant question , no new posts in five days .


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## bowman extreme

I went back to traditional once the letoff on bows went beyond 50%. That was a long time ago. 
I just cannot release cleanly with high letoff. Cant say I did great with a 50% but I wasn't awful either.
I went to a lever bow, in hopes that I could get back to fingers but that didnt work out either. However, I am told that there is a way to get some Oneida bows down to 50% or less, so when the time comes, I may look into that and try again.


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## archer_nm

Rick Stark has done it at the sectional level shooting Barebow


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## itbeso

trickyfl said:


> Mr Frank Gandy from Florida back in 85 shot 300 them 299 still stands as the record .


With a sight and clicker.


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## Jfreezy

I just inherited a Golden Eagle bow from my grandfather, in "new" unused condition, and shoot fingers. This is my first bow, and I love it. He always shot fingers, and always had a freezer full of meat. I plan to keep on shooting fingers, just like he did, even though I don't plan on hunting. Hopefully, more of these great old bows will be passed down to younger generations, and finger shooting will have a revival.


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## celtpaddy

How’s it shoot !


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## celtpaddy

This post was meant for the guy with the apex 8 with Hoyt cams.


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## celtpaddy

fmoss3 said:


> I believe that with a little practice, a fingers shooter can beat most release shooters. We have one here in KY that shoots 300 w/h 58 X's. Won't shoot nationals or Vegas>>>>>Shoots release about the same.


Did Ben Rogers move to Kentucky?


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## archer_nm

Colorado unless he did it lately


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## itbeso

archer_nm said:


> Colorado unless he did it lately


I think that was a joke Bob.LOL


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## DannyB4

Well I have come back after years of release, recurves and longbows. Just picked up a Conquest 3 and am enjoying shooting that.


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## Ogredude43

Just a thought. My version of finger shooter transferring to recurve is based on the fact that the different associations have cut the number of finger classes to a minimum making you either go to barebow or FSL


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## bowman extreme

capool said:


> I’ve been wondering the same thing why would they go to recurves?


Because a compound (for me) is harder to shoot with fingers. I prefer fingers but for that, a recurve works a lot better. Again... For me.


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## IBBW

Instinktifling said:


> There used to be a lot of posts in this section, now it's hardly anything new anymore. Where have all the finger shooters gone...to releases? Say it ain't so!


I used to be around here quite a bit. I for one turned to a release aid to cure a nasty case of target panic. I guess it took 5 years to really see positive results. Just this year I've again set up a couple of bows and resumed dropping the string. 

Seems everyone uses either old wheel bows or very long ata rigs or a combination of both. I shoot a few different barn burners. Oneida AF and a couple of dartons with MKII. Hell I even shoot an overdraw and aluminum arrows on my setups. It takes more practice but it's more satisfying, less cumbersome and just feels more "connected" hunting with these rigs. Age and flexability probably has a lot to do with most absent here. My hands do not work like they used to. 35 years of machine work has taken its toll. I'll stick with it despite that. Peace!


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## Jhaby

I started shooting with fingers about 18 months ago. I'm shooting old school equipment. I have several bows but keep going back to a 1992 Viking which has a 42" ata, wood limbs, and a heavy aluminum riser. I'm getting another one set up that will have a 44" ata. I usually shoot in the mid 290s. Last year at state i shot a 298 on the first day then sucked it up and shot a 293. Went to nationals and my nerves got the best of me and shot a 288 on day one then a 297 on day two. The guy that built my bow back in the day is still around and he does all the work on it. The FSL crowd seems more relaxed and are way more fun to shoot with. There is talk among some of the senior shooters about classing down and shooting as adults so that there are more numbers in the class.


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## afox1980

There’s still a few around, but not many. I mostly shoot traditional, but bought an old Hoyt earlier this for finger shooting/back up bow.


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## thumper-tx

Spider bow said:


> Just a question here, I have a buddy who shoots fingers and he is looking for a more modern bow. Preferably a Mathews. Any recommendations? I’m doing the looking for him since he doesn’t internet. Currently he’s shooting an early 90s Mathews I believe.
> 
> On another note, is there a preferred rest for fingers??


Mathews Conquest. it has a long ata for todays bows, a decent brace height and three cam options.


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## big cypress

wow , can't believe how little activity on the finger forum . hope you folks are all healthy and have pleasant holidays ...peace


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## archer_nm

You and yours also Merry Christmas Big Cypress


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## twofinger

at the end of each year I wonder if the next year will be the last for fingers. most big shoots don't have even have a fingers class. but I will shoot compound barebow for fun as long as I can.

FFL


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## grantmac

Vegas just introduced a new fingers class and there are already 68 entries in its first year.

Fingers shooting is doing just fine.


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## twofinger

that's great if you got or can shoot a recurve. I think it stinks on what archery has become. thank you hoyt, Mathews and all the rest for nothing I will continue to shoot my 20 year old compound.


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## grantmac

Anyone who can shoot a compound with fingers can do the same with a recurve.

Finger shooting a compound is an evolutionary dead end that just took a little while to become extinct.


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## archer_nm

It is time to say something that needs to be said, don't gloat in what you are asking for and seem to be getting, because there are a lot of compound shooters that started with stick and string and if they decide to make the switch the top will be full of those folks and some of you will be lost in the shuffle.


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## grantmac

That would be awesome! Then we can finally align NFAA rules with the rest of the world so even more archers can compete across a variety of tournaments with the same equipment. Just look at the massive growth in USAA barebow, that is what you get with internationally standardized rules.


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## Photophinatic

Still fingers only shooter!


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## archer_nm

1st off the chances of the NFAA Adopting WA rules are slim to none, secondly as the SW Councilman from 2008 until I moved in 2017 I was the only one trying to give the Recurve BB archers a place to shoot in Vegas. As I told Bruce and the rest of the council if we allow the Recurve BB to come into the Vegas shoot with in a few years you would see over 200 shooters from all over the world. Prior to their last meeting even though I was not any longer on the council I went over board with phone calls and Emails trying to get this allowed. Low and behold it finally passed so you are welcome, my question is how do think the numbers would change if it is turned into a Championship Division and all had to pay $300.00 dollars entry?? If that were to happen compound BB would go away and so would the Recurve BB flights. As I stated above there a number of Compound guys and gals that would outshoot most of the current Recurve BB shooters if they had to change over for Vegas. How do you think that would go over with the masses? I think that would be an issue, but only time will tell.


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## archer_nm

Grant where are you ?, I would like a response from the recurve side to let me know how we can find a common ground to work towards.


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## grantmac

Sitting around with a badly separated AC joint and a variety of broken ribs.

However I'm only going to shoot WA rules events in the future, zero interest in the NFAA until they get with the program. Fortunately Washington and British Columbia both offer WA events and now Vegas as well.


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## archer_nm

Oh Hell what happened?? No problem with not shooting NFAA we all make choices of where to spend our time and money. The NFAA has been around to long so I don't see major changes for a long long time.


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## grantmac

A car fell off jackstands when I was under it, I got off lightly but it'll be months before I draw a bow again.

There is a RECBB proposal going up for the NFAA this year bit I don't think it'll pass until several years of good attendance happen at Vegas. However WA is looking at including BB in world cup events.


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## Octavian_

I shoot fingers with my compounds. I never liked releases, but I shoot without sights too... So I'm a little weird.


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## archer_nm

Grant, earlier I asked you if you think making BB Recurve Championship at Vegas would hurt the turnout ($300.00 Entry) This would make the flights go away also. What do you think?


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## grantmac

The Lancaster Classic has 200 (up from 125 last year and ~70 the year before) recurve barebow shooters competing with a $175 entry fee. With either shoot that's a drop in the bucket compared to travel and expenses plus Vegas is more fun when you aren't shooting.
I know at least one shooter at Vegas who is shooting a RecBB setup in the championship division because he didn't understand the categories and I'm sure several women I believe are still shooting in the Olympic Recurve flights to stay with their gender.
At least one very high profile RecBB shooter is out this year with an injury as well.

So I don't see it being significant. I can see RecBB getting big enough to split genders in two championship divisions and supporting a youth division as well.


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## thumper-tx

Spider bow said:


> Just a question here, I have a buddy who shoots fingers and he is looking for a more modern bow. Preferably a Mathews. Any recommendations? I’m doing the looking for him since he doesn’t internet. Currently he’s shooting an early 90s Mathews I believe.
> 
> On another note, is there a preferred rest for fingers??


A Mathews Conquest shoots well with fingers with a ata just over 40". They even offer a "super soft" cam that is for finger shooters. You can pick up used Conquest very reasonable and they still make it. [at least they did in 2018] If you find a used one with the max cam on it [also very finger shootable] but want the super soft cam, they can be switched out with no change in poundage and using the same cables and strings.


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## archer_nm

I agree that Vegas is a lot more fun and there will be more than 1 Rec BB shooter that will be shooting with us, as far as splitting and getting new divisions that is a stretch they are running out of room and it is almost impossible to run more lines with the time they have now. The only way is to drop a couple of other styles and that will be a hard fight. Trust Me I know


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## grantmac

I give Compound BB and FSL a decade at most. That should make the room.
Also now that RecBB is getting more love from USAA/WA that'll draw some people away from FSLR.

Crossbow probably will also go away unless they can craft the rules to make hunting crossbows competitive.


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## Mark3466

I’m afflicted with the disease... never used a release other than a few close shots (less than 6x)to see how it felt. I have 4 Matthew’s Icons all set up the same that will last me till I die... Add your name if you want to be left one when I croak


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## EyeIrritant

I have given up release shooting completely - have a box of releases I’ll be getting rid of. I just shoot fingers better, and I enjoy it way more. Its uncommon enough that I get a few second glances at the range.


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## Since1985Tx

History

_Back in the 70's and mid 80's there were only a couple of three releases I'd seen at my local pro shops. I bought one.....and two days later it went into my archery case to sit there for next 36 years and I haven't touched it since. _

_Back then there were quite a few archery magazines on the store shelves.... They all contained stories of release shooters were not real archers. Finger shooters hated the release shooters and there were high tense arguments between the two. 

Backs then finger shooters were by far the majority in archery. But, release archers grew in size over the later 80's, 90's, 2000's & to the present....Now releases are the majority of compound archers.

Finger shooters kept saying the release archer didn't have to work for their experience, knowlege & achievements. Stick a bow and a release in their hands, (a little initial help) and in week they were shooting quite well. Of course the mechanical releases were the major part of the archer's instant success, (when they were just starting out). 

Now the shooters from the 70's and 80's are aging and the *compound *finger shooters are dropping off more each year. 

The young/middle aged fathers of today are teaching their children the art of compound archery with releases....and that's how it seems it will continue._

_ .*....I'm 100% a finger archer and there is no bias inside. 
I have nothing against release aids...I think they are great devices. The release archers are just a part of the art of modern compound archery.*_


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## kballer1

Most of the old finger shooters are sitting around a camp fire with Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, & Jim Dorothy or arteriosus so bad have to use a release. Young guys don't know what a finger tab is unless they shoot Olympic style.


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## Sivi70980

My small group of 4 very new archers all shoot fingers. 3 of us shoot our compounds with fingers. I'm the oldest of the group at 41. 1 still uses her recurve and 2 transitioned from recurve to Oneida's. I've always shot compound with fingers and just got a new Archery Republic compound bow specifically designed to shoot fingers. Shrinking in numbers maybe but certainly not gone just yet!


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## Rattus580

capool said:


> I’ve been wondering the same thing why would they go to recurves?


Simplicity... challenge... ego, in my case...and yes, I've had to hang my brute bow... somewhere in the 80's or 90's at my draw (longbow)... simplicity, looks, ego... that's my story..  and yes, you don't shoot as much either.


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## Since1985Tx

_Finger shooters gone?No.....I'm right here, still alive and kicking... and finger tab shooter of my compounds and recurves._


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## Rattus580

PhilBob said:


> Since this has come up, I want to say that according to "what everybody says" I should be having all kinds of problems with shooting my 34" Diamond Liberty with my fingers at a 30" draw, and in some ways it feels like a better "fingers bow" than my 40" Martin Scepter V.


In my opinion, you have to learn to shoot with fingers, it's not really intuitive as in my case and it also, in my case, depended on the draw weight of my bows... (also I'm a recurve longbow shooter... more longbow nowadays) and one needs to explore the various styles of shooting and whether split finger or three under. In my opinion as well, the heavier the draw weight, the more I find comfort in three fingers under.


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## tiberiuswade

grantmac said:


> Because finger shot compounds are an evolutionary dead end?


I shoot my Mathew 70lb compound with my fingers. Transition from recurve to the compound and haven't looked back....2 5x5 Elk, numerous whitetail deer, hogs, rabbits, few squirrels....fish too.


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## Eightfold

wa-prez said:


> I still shoot Compound Fingers (FSL as NFAA calls it).
> 
> I just got done checking, there are 19 of us registered for that category at The Vegas Shoot. Last 2-3 years there were about 30.
> 
> Yes, it is hard to find a compound bow with a comfortable axle-to-axle to shoot with fingers. I still love my Barnsdale Classic X which I got about 16 years ago and have been shooting ever since.


Why not try thumb draw? I don’t know if it’s viable with compounds but it effectively eliminates finger pinch. A two finger draw could achieve similar results.


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## Eightfold

Rattus580 said:


> In my opinion, you have to learn to shoot with fingers, it's not really intuitive as in my case and it also, in my case, depended on the draw weight of my bows... (also I'm a recurve longbow shooter... more longbow nowadays) and one needs to explore the various styles of shooting and whether split finger or three under. In my opinion as well, the heavier the draw weight, the more I find comfort in three fingers under.


i find 3 under to be more reliable with my traditional recurves but I might feel different with a proper tab with a spacer. I agree it’s easier to draw heavier weight too. Maybe it’s because I have less focus on finger spacing and get a stabler draw engaging the proper muscles and keeping my arm in line.


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## Eightfold

b0w_bender said:


> If you like it shoot it.
> Most people, my self included, find that the shorter bows compress your fingers more and make it more difficult to get a good release.
> 
> I never found the finger pinch to be painful but I have found that it causes me a lot more difficulty in having a consistent clean release. If yours is working for you then by all means keep the bow, but your experience would be a bit anomalous.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking there are a few major reasons why the finger shooters are likely dwindling. The bows are shorter making it harder to shoot with fingers. The only bow I was able to find over 40" was a Mathews, I don't think anyone else makes one anymore. The USArchery has completely removed all compound finger shooting classes. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see everyone else eventually follow suite. Coaches and Pro-shops are not teaching kids to shoot with fingers and a compound (outside of NASP).
> 
> So limited equipment, limited competition, very few replacements for the retiring shooters, all spell doom for the compound finger shooters. It is sad because I have tried a release and I simply do not enjoy pulling a trigger.


I appreciate both. I like shooting my compound with a wrist release because it changes the up the wear on my body while still building those back muscles. There’s something to be said for giving your poor finger or in my chase thumb joint a proper break while still getting to shoot.


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## Joe2Crow

Still shooting my Caribou with fingers and barebow. Great setup for hunting with shots out to 30 yards. And I don’t have to worry about seeing pins in low light.


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## tradesylver

I shoot my Oneida with split finger and also with a release. Like an earlier post I shot my first compound (1979) split finger until the red hotshot release came out that was a learning experience and almost a self induced blackeye. I use a heavier three finger glove when shooting the compound than with the longbow or recurve.


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## Chris1ny

Shooting 3 fingers under both Traditional recurve and compounds again 😁


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