# Levi Morgan going PSE???



## NGsportsman

Buddy of mine just saw him in a bow shop in NC wearing PSE hat and shirt.

Should we read anything into this???:tongue:


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## 3dshooter25

This is the first that I've heard of it. I doubt he would leave Mathews but you never know. It could be true.


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## NY911

No way!?


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## MoBuzzCut

I dont think that is true seeing how as Mathews is the big sponsor behind their Hunting Show


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## NGsportsman

I'm not saying he did or he didn't. But you know how money talks. Did PSE go get themselves a new "Moneymaker?"


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## J Whittington

just ask levi


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## NGsportsman

I figure if he stops in he might enlighten us!


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## MDUDE55

Dont say it is true levi......stay with us good ole boys that shoot mathews!!!! What is the truth man???? Shed some light.....hope it is just some one starting a ruckus....


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## BearKills

PSE been forking out the money. Would not surprise me, but I doubt it. If it happened congratulations to Levi on picking up a nice new sponsor.


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## Sith of Archery

*100% sure he and Sam both have*....Possibly Tim Gillingham too.


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## ILOVE3D

Probably just somebody that looks a lot like Levi.


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## Sith of Archery

nope , it was him...wait and see if I'm not right.

Hes not the only one leaving mathews or wanting to leave mathews


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## ILOVE3D

*Levi Morgan*

Wow, didn't see the previous thread.


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## Sith of Archery

what previous thread?


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## ILOVE3D

The one "*100% sure both he and Sam and possibly Tim" I may want to start watching the classified for good used Mathews bows.*


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## drivebytrucker

sam and levi's pics are still on the prostaff page at Mathews website...also noticed Alicia McHenry is on the site too...


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## x-force hunter

Any thing to confirm this yet?


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## ThinkslikeTrout

x-force hunter said:


> Any thing to confirm this yet?


So Levi is going to PSE?
Is he still with Bristol, or did they break off the engagement, again.


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## DBiggers

:happy1:Oh this is going to get exciting. This is a lot like watching a soap opera...."As the Arrow Fly's, so does the days of our lives.....:chortle:


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## APAnTN

I also heard this from a reliable source


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## x-force hunter

Anything solid to confirm?


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## asa1485

drivebytrucker said:


> sam and levi's pics are still on the prostaff page at Mathews website...also noticed Alicia McHenry is on the site too...


Probably because most of the contracts do not run out until Oct/Nov


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## asa1485

PSE does have that new shoot through riser on the longer A to A bow they have been working on. PSE does not mind shelling out the cash. And let's face it. These guys are doing this for a living and they have to go where the money is. If they paid their own way, they sure would not be doing archery full time.

Not saying he has switched. But that is the rumor that has been going around for about a month. Will believe it when I see it though.


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## shoot101bow

NGsportsman said:


> Buddy of mine just saw him in a bow shop in NC wearing PSE hat and shirt.
> 
> Should we read anything into this???:tongue:


 spot on ngsportsman i now the guy who seen him today AND NOT A LOOK ALIKE ILOVE3D Its a business world and he is just playing the game!!!!


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## 3Dblackncamo

this will be interesting


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## asa1485

3Dblackncamo said:


> this will be interesting


Very


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## Twelve Ringer $

I will believe this when he is standing on the range holding a bow with the letters PSE on it!!!


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## 3Dblackncamo

alicia mchenry was shooting for hoyt at the classic


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## pseshooter300

anything else come up on this


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## CutTheLoop

Sith of Archery said:


> nope , it was him...wait and see if I'm not right.
> 
> Hes *not the only one leaving* mathews or wanting to leave mathews



:zip:


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## Daniel Boone

Well someone send him a pm and lets see what he has to say!


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## 09Admiral

this is goin to be great:happy1:


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## 3Dblackncamo

Daniel Boone said:


> Well someone send him a pm and lets see what he has to say!


good luck getting him to respond to a pm


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## Bird Dogg

he was shooting a monster at worlds, isnt that the same thing?


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## Nitroboy

Well I haven't heard if he has or has not but if he did then good deal Levi for finally putting a good bow in your hands :RockOn: :nixon: :nyah:  :set1_rolf2:


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## Daniel Boone

3Dblackncamo said:


> good luck getting him to respond to a pm


Levi posted here more then once. I sent a few emails out today. Maybe will get the real scoop soon.

He most likely out in the field hunting.

Money talks with these pros!
DB


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## 3Dblackncamo

Daniel Boone said:


> Levi posted here more then once. I sent a few emails out today. Maybe will get the real scoop soon.
> 
> He most likely out in the field hunting.
> 
> Money talks with these pros!
> DB


he will post on here but he wont respond to pms


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## Daniel Boone

3Dblackncamo said:


> he will post on here but he wont respond to pms


Gotcha, bet we dont hear nothing official for awhile. But heck if he sporting PSE gear the cat may be out of the bag.
DB


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## drivebytrucker

3Dblackncamo said:


> alicia mchenry was shooting for hoyt at the classic


yea i know but she is on Mathews website now...pics are from about a week ago showing her shooting a Monster...matter of fact Hoyt still has her on their website also...


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## CutTheLoop

ThinkslikeTrout said:


> So Levi is going to PSE?
> *Is he still with Bristol*, or did they break off the engagement, again.



What you did there, I see it.

:set1_draught2:


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## dfranklin

His camo dodge was seen in the area today with the Mathews decals scraped off. Pretty obvious something is up. As stated above, It's a business decision for them. Sounds like Mathews is the one who probably messed up by not stepping up.


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## DuckDecoy

Something and nothing? I noticed all of the Life on the Road Vids have been pulled from YouTube


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## JawsDad

Daniel Boone said:


> Levi posted here more then once. I sent a few emails out today. Maybe will get the real scoop soon.
> 
> He most likely out in the field hunting.
> 
> *Money talks with these pros!*
> DB



Spot on with that one and more power to them! If they can make a profitable living in the sport through winning and product endorsement then go for it! Regardless what equipment it is, there is no reason not to go where the money is. Just like in many other sports, the top guys can do perform with any make/model of equipment so grab the $$ while you can. That's part of expanding the sport to the masses. It's no different than any number of us with our jobs. If someone offers you more money to do your same job somewhere else, there's a high probability you'll go do it.


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## 3dshooter25

Yea you got to make a living and I'm sure it helped too that PSE's new target bow is [email protected]$$. Good for Levi and Sam for making a wise financial decision......


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## pseshooter300

anyone have anymore info yet


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## Sith of Archery

Theres not that much more to tell. 1000% certain that its a done deal. They are no longer with Mathews. They are with PSE!

there are some others wanting to leave mathews too.....

surprised that Alicia is back with mathews. 


Not bashing, but his business, is politics, $$$.

Like PSE or not, they have the $$$ Pete is no dummy!


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## MoBuzzCut

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1399320026&v=wall

He is talking about hunting on his facebook page. In the post it says they are going with their new bows so who knows


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## proXarchery

sweet


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## carlosii

dfranklin said:


> His camo dodge was seen in the area today with the Mathews decals scraped off. Pretty obvious something is up. As stated above, It's a business decision for them. Sounds like Mathews is the one who probably messed up by not stepping up.


I thought he drove a GM product...Chevy or Jimmie...but then my eyes are old and blurry.


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## MBNC60x

asa1485 said:


> Probably because most of the contracts do not run out until Oct/Nov


Contract renewals are done in August....


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## NY911

Sith of Archery said:


> *100% sure he and Sam both have*....Possibly Tim Gillingham too.


:zip:



Bird Dogg said:


> he was shooting a monster at worlds, isnt that the same thing?


LOL....consider it his X Force training!

And to those talking about the money - yes, obviously it has a bit to do with money - but PSE quality and features help too!


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## Bowtech54

Who really cares what anybody shoots...........it the person behind the stick.........Levi is a great young man and I won't care if he shot a sling shot. He is respected and proven that he's a great individual in promoting our love of the sport. I will say that PSE hit a grand slam if they got him!


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## Boarhawg52

I'm not saying he did or didn't but right before ibo world he was filming stuff for mathews


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## 48archer

Maybe the lack of a good target bow has some of these guys leaving, i dont think the Triumph was that popular with the factory shooters.


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## 3Dblackncamo

48archer said:


> Maybe the lack of a good target bow has some of these guys leaving, i dont think the Triumph was that popular with the factory shooters.


well i guess we will see, what more can he do, he has won soy, etc, ???


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## sagecreek

It will be interesting what his scores will be with a PSE in his hand.


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## carlosii

heard at the classic from some of the mathews boys were unhappy with what was being proposed for 2011. didn't think much of it at the time. only heard one pro talking about it. a ripple becomes a tsunami, eh?


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## asa1485

MBNC60x said:


> Contract renewals are done in August....


For everyone? One of our local Factory staff shooters said his did not run out until Oct.


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## absolutecool

asa1485 said:


> For everyone? One of our local Factory staff shooters said his did not run out until Oct.


Different companies contracts run out at different times. 
I know Bowtech is October 31st. I have a friend that shoots pro for mathews and he got his contract in the mail today so yes I would say mathews have already ran out.


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## SonnyThomas

carlosii said:


> I thought he drove a GM product...Chevy or Jimmie...but then my eyes are old and blurry.


At the ProAm, Levi and Sam were parked beside us at the hotel and then in the parking lot at the shoot. For the life of me I can't tell you what they drove. Sam was in the way everytime. :smile:


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## asa1485

absolutecool said:


> Different companies contracts run out at different times.
> I know Bowtech is October 31st. I have a friend that shoots pro for mathews and he got his contract in the mail today so yes I would say mathews have already ran out.


Thanks.

The guy I am talking about is a Mathews factory shooter and he said Oct. Not that it really is any of my business, just what he told me.


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## 3Dblackncamo

SonnyThomas said:


> At the ProAm, Levi and Sam were parked beside us at the hotel and then in the parking lot at the shoot. For the life of me I can't tell you what they drove. Sam was in the way everytime. :smile:


he drives a dodge truck with graphics all over it


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## jmvaughn06

I tell ya this is awesome, I wish I had an ounce of the talent Levi has so people could write two page long posts speculating my next move, and I mean this in not a sarcastic way. The guys that good.


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## BearKills

PSE Makes some good products, but they don't have anything that would appeal to me currently for 3D .... 330+ FPS 36+" ATA and 7+" BH ... all weighing around 3.7 .lbs ... Hopefully they get something for those guys. I heard the new target bow is nice, but Heavy.


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## CherryJu1ce

What are you guys gonna do...go buy a PSE because the Morgans shoot them? Levi will continue winning with whatever bow he's shooting.


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## shooter280

all i can say i just talked to levi and its 100% true! at the classic he was hanging with the c'mere deer and swacker broadheads guys... i know they are pse guys..


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## muckdog

I just chatted with him on facebook as well and he is indeed shooting PSE.....as of 3 days ago he said...


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## williejr

like ive hurd before.. dont matter what bow they shoot,,,, i was standing beside him at illinoise and seen the way he shoots and it dont matter what he shoots he will keep winning... dont matter the stick just the person hitting the trigger... that man is a machine and best wishes him and his wife. hope they made a good wise choice... welcome to the power of PSE......


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## dpattarcher

drivebytrucker said:


> yea i know but she is on Mathews website now...pics are from about a week ago showing her shooting a Monster...matter of fact Hoyt still has her on their website also...


Now that's how you do it. Its like working two jobs getting paid for both and only have to show up for one. Lol


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## peregrine82

DBiggers said:


> :happy1:Oh this is going to get exciting. This is a lot like watching a soap opera...."As the Arrow Fly's, so does the days of our lives.....:chortle:


 Hilarious, best post I've read in quite a while.


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## carlosii

SonnyThomas said:


> At the ProAm, Levi and Sam were parked beside us at the hotel and then in the parking lot at the shoot. For the life of me I can't tell you what they drove. Sam was in the way everytime. :smile:


...and I ain't the only one with old, blurry eyes...you sure you weren't seein' their yellow Lab?


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## NY911

Swacker? Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Levi - come to Rocket!


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## FoggDogg

There's no doubt Levi is at the top of his game, and the sport right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a below average year with his new bow though. IMHO, it takes time to figure a new bow out. Especially since he's probably going from a single cam to something different. One example is Mike Braden. His last couple seasons with Hoyt were great. Then, made the switch to Mathews and now is with PSE. Hasn't done much in 3d archery. Now, maybe he's got a lot going on in his private life I/we don't know about. But, as far as Levi goes, I'm not saying you won't see him win but it wouldn't surprise me to see to see him struggle, at least by his standards, a little for 2011.


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## NY911

Perhaps - except that he won the Worlds with a Monster - which is basically a poor drawing version of an X Force. 

Plus he has the Bow Madness XL to choose from - which is a fantastic single cam bow....and who knows what 2011 will bring bow wise...there is already talk of rigging a Dominator Pro up with Omen cams....


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## muckdog

BearKills said:


> PSE Makes some good products, but they don't have anything that would appeal to me currently for 3D .... 330+ FPS 36+" ATA and 7+" BH ... all weighing around 3.7 .lbs ... Hopefully they get something for those guys. I heard the new target bow is nice, but Heavy.


Vendetta XL is darn close to what you have listed there.....328 fps, 7 1/4" BH, 35" ATA, and is considerably lighter than the Sentinel.....


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## NY911

muckdog said:


> Vendetta XL is darn close to what you have listed there.....328 fps, 7 1/4" BH, 35" ATA, and is considerably lighter than the Sentinel.....


And on the big Brown truck on it's way to me!


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## BowStrapped

In the forums Genreral section you can find pics of some new PSE's and they definitely have some intresting stuff coming out. If Levi shoots for PSE and continues to win as Im sure he will...then PSE sales will jump ALOT.

A Mathews dealer in my area told me that Mathews is making ALOT of changes and cutting alot of shooters so dont be suprised if you see some long time Mathews shooters with something else in their hand for 2011.


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## muckdog

NY911 said:


> And on the big Brown truck on it's way to me!


You're really gonna like it!


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## deadeyedickwc

guys were talking about pro archers this is how the make their money if they want to go with pse fine they probably paid out more money all of these people could shoot anything and win the bow really doesnt make the archer anymore,good for them


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## NY911

deadeyedickwc said:


> guys were talking about pro archers this is how the make their money if they want to go with pse fine they probably paid out more money all of these people could shoot anything and win the bow really doesnt make the archer anymore,good for them




http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1305384&p=1058709815#post1058709815


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## -bowfreak-

Congrats to Levi and Samantha. They are great shooters and they have earned their way. I am happy for anyone that can better themselves. Levi would win shooting anything so it doesn't matter what he is shooting.


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## Sith of Archery

Just telling like it is based on my experiences, and a couple of dealers that I know. *Mathews is capable of being dirty*. and very capable of lying and misleading. 


Would not surprise me if the told their pros to that they compete with a current model.... and the " Triumph" was a Edsel.


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## kristin2010

ILOVE3D said:


> Probably just somebody that looks a lot like Levi.


I agree to. Cause mathews treats him good and he shoots a mathews awsome to. Just look how many wins he has with one. But if it is tru then it looks like that pse is going to go BIG in the wins now.


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## PAFD ARCHER

muckdog said:


> You're really gonna like it!


he is gonna love it!!!


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## Dartonman

Sith, you have anything positive to say?


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## 3rdplace

It's all a rumor. I heard he was going to Parker.:jksign::jksign::jksign:


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## Sith of Archery

Dartonman said:


> Sith, you have anything positive to say?


Yep, I like the apex, the apex 7 Monster 7 Drenlin, Drenlin LD and the conquest 4...those a pretty good bows
cant say that for the triumph...had two of them.... like the Hoyts, spiral cams.... the two cam pse money maker .and martins shadow cat.

based on your comment,,( no im not offended) is one if the reasons for my signature,,,which is very true. Telling the truth here on AT can get ya scalded...


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## tworinger

y'all might check out the update to his face book,think that should clear it up for ya!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 3D Pinwheeler

tworinger said:


> y'all might check out the update to his face book,think that should clear it up for ya!!!!!!!!!!!


Not on FB, what's it say?????????


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## x-force hunter

3D Pinwheeler said:


> Not on FB, what's it say?????????


+1. What does it say?


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## CutTheLoop

x-force hunter said:


> +1. What does it say?


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## NY911

LOL...I just went to hit the "LIKE" button for your post!


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## krud

Do you think Samantha will go with?


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## NY911

krud said:


> Do you think Samantha will go with?


Yes. They are One.


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## NCSUarcher

Might not be all about the $$ but it's mostly about the $$ this is their job so you go where the money is just like any other job!!


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## C.Callison

Iam not judging anyone, so don't take this as something bad. But why do archers care so much about what so and so is shooting? We all know that the top level bows are all equal. Even though we may not like to admit it. The difference between the pro's and joe's ,is that the pro's don't sweat all this my bow is better than your bow crap. They run it like a business. It just go's to show you that its the shooter more than the equipment.


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## Daniel Boone

C.Callison said:


> Iam not judging anyone, so don't take this as something bad. But why do archers care so much about what so and so is shooting? We all know that the top level bows are all equal. Even though we may not like to admit it. The difference between the pro's and joe's ,is that the pro's don't sweat all this my bow is better than your bow crap. They run it like a business. It just go's to show you that its the shooter more than the equipment.


Why do we care! No different than any other pro athlete at the top of his game. We like to know what there shooting and for who! Why is that hard to understand? I doubt anyone here doesnt think Levi cant shoot any bow for anyone. 
Whats the difference between the pros and joes is the scores!
DB


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## BearKills

Daniel Boone said:


> Why do we care! No different than any other pro athlete at the top of his game. We like to know what there shooting and for who! Why is that hard to understand? I doubt anyone here doesnt think Levi cant shoot any bow for anyone.
> Whats the difference between the pros and joes is the scores!
> DB


I know a few Joes that can put it down, the choice to compete is not indicative of talent.


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## Daniel Boone

BearKills said:


> I know a few Joes that can put it down, the choice to compete is not indicative of talent.



Tell them to step up and win the big money. Whats stopping them? Well tell me who in Texas can shoot with the pros that a JOe?
DB


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## BearKills

muckdog said:


> Vendetta XL is darn close to what you have listed there.....328 fps, 7 1/4" BH, 35" ATA, and is considerably lighter than the Sentinel.....


It's a little short and a little slow and barely meets its IBO, tried it and it is no where near as smooth or dead in the hand as the Sentinel. But I have found a bow that I am very much considering over my Sentinel. NBA Cyborg!


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## BearKills

Daniel Boone said:


> Tell them to step up and win the big money. Whats stopping them?
> DB


What's big money? How much of a living do you think the top pros actually make? Are they getting rich for having to be gone away from their families most of the year? Must be a different group of pros than I know.

Nothing wrong with being home every night with nothing to prove and making a good living doing so.


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## Daniel Boone

BearKills said:


> What's big money? How much of a living do you think the top pros actually make? Are they getting rich for having to be gone away from their families most of the year? Must be a different group of pros than I know.
> 
> Nothing wrong with being home every night with nothing to prove and making a good living doing so.


Your the one that said they could hang with the pros. Heck show up at Paris. Thats in Texas one three day weekend.
Trillus won 52,000 at Vegas. Not junk change if you ask me! Yes there nothing wrong with staying home! 
DB


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## DuckDecoy

So now its official - what bow do you think he'll be shooting?


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## cenochs

DB I know a JOE that can hand it to allot of Pros and has, but the difference is " The Want to Compete " some have it and some don't! Having a solid financial background is also helpful...I like the talk about Pros changing bow companies it makes things interesting I know of another well known Pro that switched from mathews that he had been with for many years to Hoyt this year! If 3D was not a novelty sport this topic would be more interesting but that is where the sport is and probably always will be everybody wants a class a trophy and a check !!


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## cenochs

Daniel Boone said:


> Your the one that said they could hang with the pros. Heck show up at Paris. Thats in Texas one three day weekend.
> Trillus won 52,000 at Vegas. Not junk change if you ask me! Yes there nothing wrong with staying home!
> DB


DB what did second get at Vegas ? I was there if you didn't win you didn't win s###! even Vegas payouts are a joke ! If you finished in the top 10 in the Pro class you should have won at least 50000 for 10th! You know well as anyone competitve archery is a mess and the way things are going it will never get fixed!


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## BearKills

Daniel Boone said:


> Your the one that said they could hang with the pros. Heck show up at Paris. Thats in Texas one three day weekend.
> Trillus won 52,000 at Vegas. Not junk change if you ask me! Yes there nothing wrong with staying home!
> DB


I was definitely not talking about myself. I am not disillusioned like some people that I hear about and spend more money than I make traveling around hanging on to the winners coat tails and calling myself a "pro". From what I heard a pro after it is all said and done is lucky to make 90K if he doesn't have a TV deal or something like that. I know plenty of old boys making a lot more than that, sitting at home. There are plenty of people with nothing to "prove". I will be at Paris next year and it will be my first attempt and an ASA run.


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## Daniel Boone

BearKills said:


> I was definitely not talking about myself. I am not disillusioned like some people that I hear about and spend more money than I make traveling around hanging on to the winners coat tails and calling myself a "pro". From what I heard a pro after it is all said and done is lucky to make 90K if he doesn't have a TV deal or something like that. I know plenty of old boys making a lot more than that, sitting at home. There are plenty of people with nothing to "prove". I will be at Paris next year and it will be my first attempt and an ASA run.



Good Luck in Paris. You shooting Pro?
DB


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## Daniel Boone

cenochs said:


> DB I know a JOE that can hand it to allot of Pros and has, but the difference is " The Want to Compete " some have it and some don't! Having a solid financial background is also helpful...I like the talk about Pros changing bow companies it makes things interesting I know of another well known Pro that switched from mathews that he had been with for many years to Hoyt this year! If 3D was not a novelty sport this topic would be more interesting but that is where the sport is and probably always will be everybody wants a class a trophy and a check !!


So your average joe can beat Levi? You realize how good these guys are shooting right? 
Pros are that good and the average joe wont stand a chance. 
DB


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## BearKills

Daniel Boone said:


> Good Luck in Paris. You shooting Pro?
> DB


lol ... and miss my chance at the amateur class?


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## Daniel Boone

BearKills said:


> lol ... and miss my chance at the amateur class?


Good Luck in what ever class you shoot. Get the chance go watch Levi shoot. Its quite a show. Be sure and come on Friday and watch the pros shoot. 
DB


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## Daniel Boone

cenochs said:


> DB I know a JOE that can hand it to allot of Pros and has, but the difference is " The Want to Compete " some have it and some don't! Having a solid financial background is also helpful...I like the talk about Pros changing bow companies it makes things interesting I know of another well known Pro that switched from mathews that he had been with for many years to Hoyt this year! If 3D was not a novelty sport this topic would be more interesting but that is where the sport is and probably always will be everybody wants a class a trophy and a check !!


Cenochs
When you want to bring your Joe and put your finances on the line. Ill back Levi!
DB


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## lzeplin

There isn't many that can beat Sam,, I know I sure can't


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## asa1485

JawsDad said:


> Spot on with that one and more power to them! If they can make a profitable living in the sport through winning and product endorsement then go for it! Regardless what equipment it is, there is no reason not to go where the money is. Just like in many other sports, the top guys can do perform with any make/model of equipment so grab the $$ while you can. That's part of expanding the sport to the masses. It's no different than any number of us with our jobs. If someone offers you more money to do your same job somewhere else, there's a high probability you'll go do it.



Funny thing is, the ones that say that these guys don't shoot a certain product for the money but instead because it helps them, are now in fact saying that they are switching because of the money


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## Daniel Boone

asa1485 said:


> Funny thing is, the ones that say that these guys don't shoot a certain product for the money but instead because it helps them, are now in fact saying that they are switching because of the money


Funny thing only Levi and Sam are the only ones that know why they changed. Pros shoot for money, thats why they call it pro. All the major bow companies today have good bows.
DB


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## dw'struth

If Levi is going PSE, so am I! Please don't start a thread about it, I hate the spotlight.:set1_STOOGE2:


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## Daniel Boone

BearKills said:


> What's big money? How much of a living do you think the top pros actually make? Are they getting rich for having to be gone away from their families most of the year? Must be a different group of pros than I know.
> 
> Nothing wrong with being home every night with nothing to prove and making a good living doing so.


Wouldnt you hate to be Levi and Sam? Got to travel around and hunt all fall and shoot tournaments year round. Sign autographs and make the hunting shows. Sounds like a pretty sweet life to me.
DB


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## asa1485

Daniel Boone said:


> Funny thing only Levi and Sam are the only ones that know why they changed. Pros shoot for money, thats why they call it pro. All the major bow companies today have good bows.
> DB



They sure do.



Levi and Samantha are the only ones to know why they left as well as the others who are going to. That was not the point. Point was there are people who always go around preaching that the pros only shoot what works for them regardless of money. That they do it because it helps them shoot better and win.

The same people now in 2 different threads on AT and on a couple other forums are now saying that they are "leaving because of the money". What happened to the "Because it helps them shoot better and win" part?

Can't have your cake and eat it too.


----------



## asa1485

As always, I acknowledge the hard work that the pros have put in and done to be where they are. It is not easy and takes a lot of dedication. I wish all of them the best. No matter where they shoot or what they shoot.


----------



## ruger10x

Sith of Archery
Hes not the only one leaving mathews or wanting to leave mathews[/QUOTE said:


> Yeah your right, because we all know that Mathews is like an abusive
> spouse,RIGHT ?
> 
> This is nothing more than a job change for them. I'm sure they will both
> do well no matter what they are shooting. Congrats to PSE and the Morgans.


----------



## BearKills

Daniel Boone said:


> Wouldnt you hate to be Levi and Sam? Got to travel around and hunt all fall and shoot tournaments year round. Sign autographs and make the hunting shows. Sounds like a pretty sweet life to me.
> DB


It's a lot harder work than that makes it out to be. I think I would rather spend more time with my daughter that's 3yo. I missed a lot of time with my son and won't make that mistake again.


----------



## muckdog

BearKills said:


> It's a little short and a little slow and barely meets its IBO, tried it and it is no where near as smooth or dead in the hand as the Sentinel. But I have found a bow that I am very much considering over my Sentinel. NBA Cyborg!


Ok so it's 1 3/4" shorter & 2 fps slower than the Sentinel. While I do admit the Sentinel has less recoil I will say that the draw cycle of the Sentinel is not nearly as smooth as the Vendetta XL...310 fps, 300 gr arrow, 60 lbs, 28" draw seems spot on to IBO specs to me....but if you're shooting ASA you can only be 280 anyway..
I shot the Sentinel last year and have the Vendetta XL this year putting several thousand shots through each and I'll take the Vendetta all day long....They both are capable but ya have to shoot what you like.....


----------



## damnyankee

BearKills...You act like 90K a year jobs are on every corner? You must not live in the beatdown recessed country I live in.


----------



## stickslingerdh

damnyankee said:


> BearKills...You act like 90K a year jobs are on every corner? You must not live in the beatdown recessed country I live in.


No joke!!! I'll take one of those jobs if there just so many!! You can even give me bonus of A $10k pay cut and Ill start tomorrow for $80k


----------



## DuckDecoy

I'll try again....what bows do you think they'll be shooting? something in the current lineup or something new??


----------



## asa1485

My vote goes to the new shoot thru they have coming out.


----------



## BearKills

muckdog said:


> Ok so it's 1 3/4" shorter & 2 fps slower than the Sentinel. While I do admit the Sentinel has less recoil I will say that the draw cycle of the Sentinel is not nearly as smooth as the Vendetta XL...310 fps, 300 gr arrow, 60 lbs, 28" draw seems spot on to IBO specs to me....but if you're shooting ASA you can only be 280 anyway..
> I shot the Sentinel last year and have the Vendetta XL this year putting several thousand shots through each and I'll take the Vendetta all day long....They both are capable but ya have to shoot what you like.....


You have shot the new Sentinel FLX right, because it wasn't out last year for you to put several thousand arrows through? It's a completely different bow. Also the Vendetta does not often end up with the advertised BH and ATA after getting draw length to AMO. Another thing worth mentioning is that it is much much shorter than three bows we mentioned at full draw, which is what matters. It's a good bow, but lower on my list than the Cyborg and Sentinel.


----------



## Daniel Boone

damnyankee said:


> BearKills...You act like 90K a year jobs are on every corner? You must not live in the beatdown recessed country I live in.


Amen, $90,000 and all exspenses paid traveling hunting and shooting tournaments. Thats awesome.
Didnt Levi lay bricks for sometime. I think him and Sam have a great future in this sport and are living the dream.
DB


----------



## carlosii

what an interesting thread. i agree levi is one of the better shooters on the pro circuit...but remember too that while he won the classic this year, the year before in Columbus i think he didn't make the shoot-down...so even the best can't be the best all the time.
i'm really liking this. it's almost like nascar...any more rumors about folks jumping to another team?


----------



## shooting eleven

its official levi went to pse i dont know about samantha or tim but levi definitly did


----------



## CutTheLoop

shooting eleven said:


> its official levi went to pse i dont know about samantha or tim but levi definitly did


umm...it was "official" 4 days ago


----------



## muckdog

BearKills said:


> You have shot the new Sentinel FLX right, because it wasn't out last year for you to put several thousand arrows through? It's a completely different bow. Also the Vendetta does not often end up with the advertised BH and ATA after getting draw length to AMO. Another thing worth mentioning is that it is much much shorter than three bows we mentioned at full draw, which is what matters. It's a good bow, but lower on my list than the Cyborg and Sentinel.


 Nope mine wasn't a Sentinel Flx it had a shoot thru on it instead which was a heck of a lot more effective than the flex guard.....
I guess I just felt that the Vendetta was close enough to what you had listed for your standards to consider....I actually really liked my Sentinel I just like my Vendetta a bit more....
We don't have to agree...lol


----------



## BearKills

muckdog said:


> Nope mine wasn't a Sentinel Flx it had a shoot thru on it instead which was a heck of a lot more effective than the flex guard.....
> I guess I just felt that the Vendetta was close enough to what you had listed for your standards to consider....I actually really liked my Sentinel I just like my Vendetta a bit more....
> We don't have to agree...lol


Oh I know we don't have to agree, but the 09 even with the TAP shoot through is not as nice imo as the Sentinel FLX. They changed the bow up quite a bit and it tuned right down the middle.


----------



## asa_low12

I'm sure Levi will be shooting the new PSE Nominator. Shoot thru riser. Very easily switched from left to right hand.


----------



## APAnTN

asa_low12 said:


> I'm sure Levi will be shooting the new PSE Nominator. Shoot thru riser. Very easily switched from left to right hand.


The new shoot through riser is the Dominator Pro. There is supposed to be 2 more target bows as well. I just wonder what bow he's hunting with


----------



## hoytgirl00

i have a ?.do you think you would leave a company for $180,000?thats what a little birdie has dropped in my ear.it may be for both of them.that is just plain out crazy.archery is turning into baseball and PSE is the YANKEES.


----------



## CutTheLoop

hoytgirl00 said:


> i have a ?.do you think you would leave a company for $180,000?thats what a little birdie has dropped in my ear.it may be for both of them.that is just plain out crazy.archery is turning into baseball and PSE is the YANKEES.


How much you figure Alicia got for going back to the Dark Side?


----------



## APAnTN

hoytgirl00 said:


> i have a ?.do you think you would leave a company for $180,000?thats what a little birdie has dropped in my ear.it may be for both of them.that is just plain out crazy.archery is turning into baseball and PSE is the YANKEES.


my little gave me a smaller number than that. Its really hard to say but id be willing to bet that the only ones who know is the ones who worked out the contract.


----------



## asa1485

Money is not the only issues when someone of this caliber maes a change. It can range greatly from being told you are going to have to shoot a certain bow so that it will help sales, not getting along with management, if you shoot for us the rest of the family has to shoot the same bow manufacturer, to , it just plain is time for a change. Because even if they when with said product, does not mean they like said product.

I am sure there will be more shakeups to come from everything including but not limited to , bows, stabs, strings, binos and so on.


----------



## completepassthru

Daniel Boone said:


> Amen, $90,000 and all exspenses paid traveling hunting and shooting tournaments. Thats awesome.
> Didnt Levi lay bricks for sometime. I think him and Sam have a great future in this sport and are living the dream.
> DB


Levi just lives a few miles from me. He did lay rock for a living. I ask him one day why in the world are you still laying rock? He said because if i do not win i do not get paid! He no longer slings rock just arrows. I ran into Levi and Samantha coming out of the courthouse one day. They were getting there passports to go to Jamaica i believe. He said he wanted to go elk hunting for their honeymoon and she wanted to go to Jamaica. I will let you get guess who won that one.

I will tell you guys Levi is a super good guy and has his head on straight. 

I will say one more thing about Levi. Archery is not the most important thing to him. It is his savior Jesus Christ. He told me that his ride so far has been awesome and if it was all taken away tomorrow he has been truly blessed by God.


----------



## NY911

Happy Anniversary to Levi and Sam!


----------



## Daniel Boone

completepassthu said:


> Levi just lives a few miles from me. He did lay rock for a living. I ask him one day why in the world are you still laying rock? He said because if i do not win i do not get paid! He no longer slings rock just arrows. I ran into Levi and Samantha coming out of the courthouse one day. They were getting there passports to go to Jamaica i believe. He said he wanted to go elk hunting for their honeymoon and she wanted to go to Jamaica. I will let you get guess who won that one.
> 
> I will tell you guys Levi is a super good guy and has his head on straight.
> 
> I will say one more thing about Levi. Archery is not the most important thing to him. It is his savior Jesus Christ. He told me that his ride so far has been awesome and if it was all taken away tomorrow he has been truly blessed by God.


Well said and something many of us realize. Levi a true champion in all ways he handles himself. He got quite a few years being he young. Reminds me alot of a young Jeff Hopkins. Lets his bow do his talking on the range.
DB


----------



## damnyankee

Word on the street...heard at a shoot over the weekend.

Levi and Samantha signed with CBE/Scott, but had not completed the deal with PSE and were in talks with another company as of Saturday.


----------



## springy

could this be true just think of levi tim and now pic up dave what a team pse will have just like the ragsdale days again see what happens


----------



## Red57

both companies build a fine bow, i'm just a nobody, but i have shot both. i reaaly admire mathews, for the NASP program & MATT for his belief in the lord. thanks red57


----------



## asa1485

There was a thread yesterday about Mathews going after the Morgans and sueing them. Also was stated that if they did not shoot for Mathews they would not shoot for anyone and would be run out of the business.

Now, I am not saying it is true. Just relaying what was in the thread because the thread is gone.


----------



## CutTheLoop

asa1485 said:


> There was a thread yesterday about Mathews going after the Morgans and sueing them. Also was stated that if they did not shoot for Mathews they would not shoot for anyone and would be run out of the business.
> 
> Now, I am not saying it is true. Just relaying what was in the thread because the thread is gone.


Have a feeling, if true...and pursued... will not end well for Mathews.


----------



## asa1485

My thoughts exactly


----------



## APAnTN

Im betting some of the religious remarks got it pulled. Im sure theres something to the lawsuit and im sure it will all come out. If Levi left and didnt hold up his part of the contract I can understand the legal matters but I cant understand why Mathews said if he isnt shooting a Mathews he wont be shooting anything and the would run him out of the sport. Im ready to see how this shakes out myself


----------



## CowboyJunkie

It was said these were Joel Maxfields words. For any of you that have dealt with Joel in a time of "crisis" he can be a real jerk. I would not be a bit surprised if it was said by him.


----------



## asa1485

Just one more reason in a long line that I do not buy or support Mathews. I do think they do an excellent job with the NASP thing though. 

I mean, you think you are soo great you don't go to the ATA and try to start your own. Oooppss. There is one more reason.


----------



## TRIPLETT

Just got back from the Bighorns Mule deer hunting.My phone started ringing as soon as
i got service about this story. All i can say is Jill & I wish levi and sam all the best. They
are just 2 young people trying to build a future for themselfs. All this putting mathews or
so & so down is just a waste of time. people change jobs for a lot of different reasons and
i am sure they had their reasons. Matt is a great guy and i am sure he didn't want to lose
them but did you ever think maybe he wasn't involved in this till after the fact? He may not be involved now, i mean you hire people to take care of things and sometimes it
doesn't work out. As far as Mathews thinking they are too great to do the ATA, come on
people. Matt stated that with the riseing cost of the show he thought the money would
be put to a better use in the NASP program. Right or wrong it was his desison and he
went with it. Just so you all know, i do not shoot Mathews, Jill & I shoot for Martin.
I think we all need to wish Levi & Sam the best of luck and also wish all the shooters
and Bow companys the best of luck in these trying times.

Good luck Levi & Sam
Lonnie & Jill Triplett


----------



## sagecreek

TRIPLETT said:


> Just got back from the Bighorns Mule deer hunting.My phone started ringing as soon as
> i got service about this story. All i can say is Jill & I wish levi and sam all the best. They
> are just 2 young people trying to build a future for themselfs. All this putting mathews or
> so & so down is just a waste of time. people change jobs for a lot of different reasons and
> i am sure they had their reasons. Matt is a great guy and i am sure he didn't want to lose
> them but did you ever think maybe he wasn't involved in this till after the fact? He may not be involved now, i mean you hire people to take care of things and sometimes it
> doesn't work out. As far as Mathews thinking they are too great to do the ATA, come on
> people. Matt stated that with the riseing cost of the show he thought the money would
> be put to a better use in the NASP program. Right or wrong it was his desison and he
> went with it. Just so you all know, i do not shoot Mathews, Jill & I shoot for Martin.
> I think we all need to wish Levi & Sam the best of luck and also wish all the shooters
> and Bow companys the best of luck in these trying times.
> 
> Good luck Levi & Sam
> Lonnie & Jill Triplett


Well said, my thoughts exactly!


----------



## Sith of Archery

I wish sam and levi the best

I gotta add this....More people need to stand up to a certain company's bully tatics.


----------



## asa1485

Yes they do. I have a friend that has a tv show sponsored by Mathews. They are telling him to shoot the Z7 on his show or no money. He is shooting a Mathews bow which he really likes. It is easy to carry on long stalks, lightweight and he really like the way it shoots. But NNOOOOOO! Shoot the Z7 or else.


----------



## UltraElite 06

I would think that Mathews would want there money support to showcase there newest products not ones a couple years old. They dont want the average hunter or target shooter to see Mathews pro hunters or target shooters shooting older products and winning cause the average guy may say Hey if the pros are not shooting the new stuff and suceeding then why should I buy a new one maybe they arent any better than the few year old model.


----------



## cardiac kid

UltraElite 06 said:


> I would think that Mathews would want there money support to showcase there newest products not ones a couple years old. They dont want the average hunter or target shooter to see Mathews pro hunters or target shooters shooting older products and winning cause the average guy may say Hey if the pros are not shooting the new stuff and suceeding then why should I buy a new one maybe they arent any better than the few year old model.


ding ding ding we have a winner!!!!!


----------



## Devine Shot

UltraElite 06 said:


> I would think that Mathews would want there money support to showcase there newest products not ones a couple years old. They dont want the average hunter or target shooter to see Mathews pro hunters or target shooters shooting older products and winning cause the average guy may say Hey if the pros are not shooting the new stuff and suceeding then why should I buy a new one maybe they arent any better than the few year old model.


Do they not still make new bows of the older models. I mean if it just about one bow to sell then just make one bow and be done with it. I think with your way of thinking it could be just as easily taken that(If all shows just shot the Z7) the public would think all the other bows are junk. Me personally would think a sponsored hunter would shoot the bow that fits him the best. So is Mathews gonna tell all their sponsored target shooters they can only shoot a triumph, it is no different.

As for Levi and Sam wish you all the best and really glad to hear that some other bow companies are finally realizing target archery will sell bows....

Should all be good for the shooters in the long run.


----------



## birddawg

Heres the deal if you work at McDonalds they supply you with the uniform, If I am the main sponser of your tv show your going to wear a shirt that says BIRDDAWG is # 1 or I will pull my funding its that simple! If you cannot agree to those terms find another sponser! I am certain I can find another host who needs my money! Grow up I am glad that Levi and Sam can make a living doing this, wish I could! I wish them both alot of success no matter who they shoot for I am still a fan! I also have to say that PSE is doing the right thing by signing these larger the life shooting personalities it WILL sell them more bows! One last comment if a Pro is in a contract than he should fulfill that contract or deal with it one way or another. From what I know of Levi I would say his affairs are in order.


----------



## Devine Shot

birddawg said:


> Heres the deal if you work at McDonalds they supply you with the uniform, If I am the main sponser of your tv show your going to wear a shirt that says BIRDDAWG is # 1 or I will pull my funding its that simple! If you cannot agree to those terms find another sponser! I am certain I can find another host who needs my money! Grow up I am glad that Levi and Sam can make a living doing this, wish I could! I wish them both alot of success no matter who they shoot for I am still a fan! I also have to say that PSE is doing the right thing by signing these larger the life shooting personalities it WILL sell them more bows! One last comment if a Pro is in a contract than he should fulfill that contract or deal with it one way or another. From what I know of Levi I would say his affairs are in order.


Your argument is more like McDonald just gives you a suit for a medium size guy and expects you to be happy even though what suit really fits is a XXL, the sad part is they make that XXL that looks a works great but go ahead and wear it(medium) cause I can go find some other person it will fit.


----------



## TRIPLETT

I really don't think it had anything to do with what bow he was or wanted
to shoot, but i could be wrong


----------



## Sith of Archery

I posted this on the other thread regarding this

Received word today FROM A VERY GOOD SOURCE that the morgans may not be going to PSE....Lawsuit is having a big INFLUENCE on their return.....Promise that Im not lying or making it up.!


----------



## greenvillewi

the way I see it is this should make alot people on here happy.there is no questions levi is a good shot and deserves everything he has coming to him. but doesn't this open the door for other people to join the ranks as a pro


----------



## CutTheLoop

Sith of Archery said:


> I posted this on the other thread regarding this
> 
> Received word today FROM A VERY GOOD SOURCE that the morgans may not be going to PSE....Lawsuit is having a big INFLUENCE on their return.....Promise that Im not lying or making it up.!



Yeah, that's what ya want... to be FORCED to work for someone.

"oops... I missed another one."


----------



## hophunt

So there isn't some kind of a buy out on the contract that would allow them to leave? I would think there would be some sort of a clause built into the contract. I think it would sit better with the public if they were just allowed to move on than it does if they are forced into a situation that prevents them from being happy. Take a look at all pro sports, players and coaches are released from contracts all of the time in order to create better situations for the player as well as the team/organization. In many cases this improves the brand image of the organization. If they refuse, it demonizes the organization. Archers represent a relatively small percentage of the population and target archers an even smaller percentage. I say to Mathews do the right thing for your company, your supporters, and archery as a sport. Let them move on if they so desire.


----------



## asa1485

Big problem is , most of the people who buy the bows will know nothing of them wanting to leave or being forced to stay. It will be the same "They shoot them because they are the best" stuff and they will have no idea.


----------



## Sagittarius

CutTheLoop said:


> Yeah, that's what ya want... to be FORCED to work for someone.
> 
> "oops... I missed another one."


Agree with you 100 percent; nothing good can come from being forced to work for someone.
Look what happens when a professional football, basketball, or baseball player wants to be traded from a team.
If they're not released, eventually, they become a cancer to their team mates.
Matt needs to let them go; it's a hopeless situation if he forces them to stay.
I would be bitter to the depths of my soul if I wanted to leave and my boss forced me to stay. :thumbs_do


----------



## bclowman

i don't think they can be forced. There is always a way out and if Matt done that he could kiss his reputation good bye.


----------



## BigBucks125

hophunt said:


> So there isn't some kind of a buy out on the contract that would allow them to leave? I would think there would be some sort of a clause built into the contract.


Pretty sure these bow contracts are worth about as much as the paper they're writte on!


----------



## XForce Girl

Sith of Archery said:


> I posted this on the other thread regarding this
> 
> Received word today FROM A VERY GOOD SOURCE that the morgans may not be going to PSE....Lawsuit is having a big INFLUENCE on their return.....Promise that Im not lying or making it up.!


Sith. I also heard this from a "Very good source" 
You are totally right with this one!!


----------



## bhtr3d

BigBucks125 said:


> Pretty sure these bow contracts are worth about as much as the paper they're writte on!


Contracts do when it involves tv shows and product endorsements.


----------



## Bird Dogg

law suit for violation of contract, nothing motivates like exp. lawyers.... Im sure 2011 will be an intersting year say the least.


----------



## BowStrapped

I "think" it went a little something like this....
...please shoot one of our current model bows.
....take a look at what we have coming out plus a little more $$$ never hurts
...ok, looks like we have to say LAWSUIT if youre going that route since by contract we still can
...use my lawyers and know worries about them suing you
...tell you what, we can foget about this lawsuit stuff, pay you more $$$ than we did before if you just stay with us.

A month from now the dust will be settled.


----------



## JimmyP

Mat,s not the one breaking the contract but he seams to be the one that everyone thinks is in the wrong.Is it wrong for a employer to ask a employee to do something that they dont want to do. i wish we all could tell our boss what we are going to do and still keep our jobs and even get a raise out of it.we would not need contracts if people would just be men of there word.he did read and even sign it right.maybe next time he will be carefull what he agrees to with a contract. with all that said, the more money that is throne at hot shot shooters is good if archery is going to grow .this is the ugly side of it.we see it in the other sports ,football,basketball ,baseball ,golf.


----------



## mag41vance

The biggest part of the Archery money most pros win doesn't come from the tournament purse, but from the contingency money. That is the reason the manufacturers go after them. They shelled out big bucks to these pro's to shoot their stuff.
The manufacturers look at this more like a Divorce, and want to make sure they get and protect their part of the estate.(so to speak)
Suing someone because of bodily harm is 1 thing. Suing because of money is an ungodly principle, so testimonies are being compromised and the god of this world is being exalted in the process. 
Be careful what you claim in life as your God. Your actions always tell the truth. Not a sermon, just a thought.


----------



## Sith of Archery

JimmyP said:


> Mat,s not the one breaking the contract but he seams to be the one that everyone thinks is in the wrong.Is it wrong for a employer to ask a employee to do something that they dont want to do. i wish we all could tell our boss what we are going to do and still keep our jobs and even get a raise out of it.we would not need contracts if people would just be men of there word.he did read and even sign it right.maybe next time he will be carefull what he agrees to with a contract. with all that said, the more money that is throne at hot shot shooters is good if archery is going to grow .this is the ugly side of it.we see it in the other sports ,football,basketball ,baseball ,golf.


You do have some valid points. But if an employee is asked to do something that he doesn't want to he does have the right to quit/or leave the job. I do believe that the Morgans lives in N.C. which is a a right to work state (unions and contracts don't have as much bite as many would thinK) Which means, that employers and employees have the leagal right for employees to terminated their employees/and employess to quit with out reason or justification. Maybe PSE offered a better opportunity to the Morgans than Mathews. 
IMHO..the Lawsuit makes Mathews look bad. Low class... bully tactics. I've said it before, and will say it again....I* love most of mathews's bows*, but some of their company policies, practices are un-ethical and hyporcritical. I also admire Mathews for their public display/declaration of Jesus. However, I don't agree with their use of religion as a tool that helps them attack/manipulate/black mail others.


----------



## JawsDad

They do have a right to leave their job. But, if terms of the contract have a non-compete, they cannot just leave a job and start working for a competitor. You don't have to look that hard in the recent news to find cases like this. The CEO of HP resigns (gets fired) and then shortly after takes a job with Oracle. HP files suit to block this from happening. Of course, in this case it was settled by large sums of $$ and stock changing hands, but the point is when a contract is in play sometimes your hands are tied, like it or not.


It likely has very little to do with where they live. Where they live is not necessarily where they work. They work all over the country/world. Plus, most any contract I've signed states where they will be enforced if push came to shove (lawsuit) and I suspect these contracts would as well. Most companies are going to execute a contract on their terms of enforcement in terms of locale. 


Of course, with all that said, like a vast majority here I'm not a lawyer so it's all conjecture on my part. I'm sure I'll be called ignorant again soon enough by some "all-knowing" individual.


----------



## XForce Girl

If you invested a lot of your companies money in your "employee" 
Say, to film commercials or something?? With the understanding that your "employees' will continue to work and promote your company, then all of a sudden that employee leaves to go somewhere else. 
Wouldn't you want to be compensated for your losses?? 
I don't think Mathews is out of line asking to be compensated since they have invested lots of money with the intent that their employees were going to fulfill their end of the agreement.


----------



## sagecreek

XForce Girl said:


> If you invested a lot of your companies money in your "employee"
> Say, to film commercials or something?? With the understanding that your "employees' will continue to work and promote your company, then all of a sudden that employee leaves to go somewhere else.
> Wouldn't you want to be compensated for your losses??
> I don't think Mathews is out of line asking to be compensated since they have invested lots of money with the intent that their employees were going to fulfill their end of the agreement.


EXACTLY! A contract is a contract. You can break it, but you will have to pay the price, whatever that ends up being in court.


----------



## hophunt

JawsDad said:


> They do have a right to leave their job. But, if terms of the contract have a non-compete, they cannot just leave a job and start working for a competitor.QUOTE]
> 
> I obviously have no idea whether or not there was a non-compete clause, but I would think that even if there was, these folks would have to have a good reason (other than money) for leaving a company. With that said, contracts are to protect all parties involved, not just the sponsoring company. It is an agreement between multiple parties. I also am not sure of how or what circumstances have created the desire to move, but if it was as I read, the bow company issuing an ultimatum of use this or else, and that was not specified in the contract as a term that both parties agreed to up front, then the employee (shooter in this case) has a legitimate argument for breach of contract and therefor termination of the contract.
> 
> I guess the top archery pros need to start looking at using sports agents.


----------



## ky hammer

if i were a betting man i bet that contract Levi and Sam has with Mathews just got torn up and one with more $$$ in it has been signed.


----------



## XForce Girl

Yes it had everything to do with money.


----------



## JawsDad

hophunt said:


> JawsDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do have a right to leave their job. But, if terms of the contract have a non-compete, they cannot just leave a job and start working for a competitor.
> 
> 
> 
> I obviously have no idea whether or not there was a non-compete clause, but I would think that even if there was, these folks would have to have a good reason (other than money) for leaving a company. With that said, contracts are to protect all parties involved, not just the sponsoring company. It is an agreement between multiple parties. I also am not sure of how or what circumstances have created the desire to move, but if it was as I read, the bow company issuing an ultimatum of use this or else, and that was not specified in the contract as a term that both parties agreed to up front, then the employee (shooter in this case) has a legitimate argument for breach of contract and therefor termination of the contract.
> 
> I guess the top archery pros need to start looking at using sports agents.
Click to expand...

Contracts are to protect all parties so long as all parties participate in the creation of the contract. I would say a fair number of the employment with non-disclose/non-compete contracts I've seen in the tech industry care only about protecting the company. 

I'm not sure if archery pros need agents per se. But, if they are signing a contract, they most likely do need legal counsel.


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## Kstigall

Over the years:
1) I've heard a tremendous amount of "inside info" from "reliable sources" that I know for a fact was total BS! Does anyone know the *exact* wording in the contract IF it's a contract issue? Because the devil is in the details..........
2) This thread is full of absolute speculation that is based on, at best, a sliver of fact.
3) IF this "issue" is a contractual issue (speculating!) then only the lawyers involved understand what is going on and even then there's probably (speculating again) differences of opinion.
4) There isn't enough known fact _in this thread_ for an unbiased by-stander to draw a conclusion that anyone is a "bad" guy.

Other than the folks that have a _personal_ reason to want Mathews or PSE or Matt or Levi to "lose"...... Whom really cares how it ends? I guess I simply don't understand how people 'identify' so personally with anything so greatly disconnected from what really matters.


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## sagecreek

Well, it can't be because he wasn't winning with a Mathews in his hand.


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## Sith of Archery

Kent I mean no disrespect toward you..so please don't take my response the wrong way....but your right and wrong...I I know who the bad guy is. Not speculation, I have concrete proof from this and other related/similar situations. 
also consider the following:
When in competitive archery history has a company sued a prostaff/former prostaff shooter for leaving/wanting to leave a company and go to another? Heck, I remember Johnny Heath (leading shooter of year in asa) leaving High Country in mid season and going to Bear/jennings....

also remeber PSE cutting/fireing all their prostaff members in the middle of the archery season too! Yep, its been a while. 

Now if the rumor is true, (which its a good chance it may be) that levi is now going to re-nig on his contract with PSE and return to mathews will PSE now sue? I have no basis nor information to support my next statement, but I don't think so....


This can go two ways....this could really hurt competitive pro archery and it could help it....just see how it goes. 
Oh kent
I do know for a fact that in the past, Mathews fired a female pro staff shooter because her son shot pro with Hoyt...Nothing was stated, nor implied in the contract pertaining to what (if any) bow family members had to shoot......so if Mathews can fire someone for no reason (based no contract violations) then are they not being hypocrites for sueing the Morgans....


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## bclowman

I'm betting he will be shooting PSE come tourney time. Mathews would lose alot more than they would gain by making them shoot now. Everytime from this point on someone seems him or Samantha at a tourney with a Mathews the first thing that would come to mind is, "man there making them shoot that bow". Mathews knows that i hope.


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## Admiral Vixen

These two have given alot to this sport. They shouldn't take away from the hard work and dedication they have given.


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## Kstigall

Sith of Archery said:


> Kent I mean no disrespect toward you..so please don't take my response the wrong way....but your right and wrong...I I know who the bad guy is. Not speculation, I have concrete proof from this and other related/similar situations.
> also consider the following:
> When in competitive archery history has a company sued a prostaff/former prostaff shooter for leaving/wanting to leave a company and go to another? Heck, I remember Johnny Heath (leading shooter of year in asa) leaving High Country in mid season and going to Bear/jennings....
> 
> also remeber PSE cutting/fireing all their prostaff members in the middle of the archery season too! Yep, its been a while.
> 
> Now if the rumor is true, (which its a good chance it may be) that levi is now going to re-nig on his contract with PSE and return to mathews will PSE now sue? I have no basis nor information to support my next statement, but I don't think so....
> 
> 
> This can go two ways....this could really hurt competitive pro archery and it could help it....just see how it goes.
> Oh kent
> I do know for a fact that in the past, Mathews fired a female pro staff shooter because her son shot pro with Hoyt...Nothing was stated, nor implied in the contract pertaining to what (if any) bow family members had to shoot......so if Mathews can fire someone for no reason (based no contract violations) then are they not being hypocrites for sueing the Morgans....


I hear what you are saying. But I still stand by what I said. I know there are 'facts' in this thread but there isn't enough details AND known facts for an impartial by-stander to draw a real conclusion as to whether there is a 'true' bad guy in this issue. By no means do I have a dog in this fight. It's somewhat sad that so many respondents (I'm not pointing at you) in this thread feel they know enough about what is going to criticize the Morgans, Mathews or PSE.

For the most part, I expect it's a matter of all the involved parties making business decisions as to how it all shakes out. I'm hoping it doesn't get ugly and 'personal' issues develop but it does happen.

I really don't care in the least how it all pans out, other than I don't like seeing people cheated in general. If PSE buys the Morgans fair and square so be it. I don't believe the Morgan's _owe_ Mathews anything more than what they agree or agreed to in their contract.


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## ky hammer

i think your last comment there hit the nail on the head Kent. from what i have heard and from very good sources there is 3 viable options for Levi. One is to honor his contract shoot Mathews this year and then go where he wants. second is to buy out his contract which by the way most prostaff contracts have a clause that if you do leave before the contract is thru you are liable for this. the third is to sit out this year and not shoot. i hear he is very much considering this 3rd option.


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## athomPT

mag41vance said:


> The biggest part of the Archery money most pros win doesn't come from the tournament purse, but from the contingency money. That is the reason the manufacturers go after them. They shelled out big bucks to these pro's to shoot their stuff.
> The manufacturers look at this more like a Divorce, and want to make sure they get and protect their part of the estate.(so to speak)
> Suing someone because of bodily harm is 1 thing. Suing because of money is an ungodly principle, so testimonies are being compromised and the god of this world is being exalted in the process.
> Be careful what you claim in life as your God. Your actions always tell the truth. Not a sermon, just a thought.


I agree totally and would seriously disappointed in the company if they treated them that way. There has to be a way to handle the situation without tarnishing the images of the company or shooters who have seriously help promote the sport. I'm sure there is more to the story than is being discussed on AT, but I would definitely rather see them go and pray they are blessed regardless of who they shoot for.


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## sagecreek

ky hammer said:


> ... the third is to sit out this year and not shoot. i hear he is very much considering this 3rd option.


Most contracts have stipulations about how many shoots and events you must attend. lain:


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## ky hammer

i agree most contracts do have that stipulation but i also do know that in the past some Mathews contracts paid you so much for each shoot you went to. if you didn attend a shoot you didnt get that money for that shoot. now i am sure that the stature he is at he is at a much different contract level than that.


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## 12sonly

i believe mathews requires that you have to shoot all the events on one of the archery trails and be qualifed for shooter of the year. that the least you can do. good luck to levi and sam , i'm glad to have people like them in the sport. my be next mathews will let the pros have some say before they put a bow on the market that is not up to standard(saying it nicely)


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## genohuh

I am on Pse pro staff and our contracts run out Jan 1st... Levi is on my facebook but i havnt talked to him about anything.. he has been hunting alot... and Yes PSE will shock alot of people with their new line of Bow's There new Target Bow 38" 7'75 brace height shoot through window is HOTTTT... dead in your hand!!!


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## bustn'nocks

How is he ever going to win again if he isn't shooting a Mathews?


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## 12sonly

he could win shoot a tree branch and a string.


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## Sith of Archery

things have been quite lately...not even I can find out any info!


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## bigGP

Sith of Archery said:


> things have been quite lately...not even I can find out any info!


Some people and some companies will do ANYTHING to get what they want regardless of whether its what the other party wants or if its the right thing to do. Selfishness and Hypocrisy are easily dismissed when crushing others to get what you want.


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## HokieArcher

I really hope that Levi and Samantha get everything worked out the way they want, they have been great for promoting the sport. You can't blame Mathews for putting up a fight trying to keep them on staff, good hard working people like Levi and Samantha are getting harder to find.


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## damnyankee

Word on the street is Levi is back with Mathews for 3 more years. Signed and sealed.


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## bigGP

damnyankee said:


> Word on the street is Levi is back with Mathews for 3 more years. Signed and sealed.


See my previous post.


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## damnyankee

I know what your saying big gp...


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## hoffman80

i also hear hes staying with mathews...


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## Sith of Archery

It is true. Morgans staying with mathews,,,,being forced to (lawsuit) this much I know as fact....

What is rumored:
1. They may not shoot this year (but I doubt that. Levi makes to much $ kicking butts)
2. Lawsuit is ongoing...trying to when their freedom from mathews ( I think this is possible)
3. morgans re-signed contract for 2011 but later hear that their contengency money was being cut...(mathews is making a lot of cuts to their budget this year...this is fact)
***4 Mathews threated to cut contengency pay/and or/ sponsor ship money to the archery orgs. if they allowed them to compete...(rumor......pure rumor..but I think this is possible... 50/50)


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## hoffman80

So what about their tv show, and I thought that contracts were usually on year long? I guess I dont know how any of it works, so Im even more lost lol


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## carlosii

Sith of Archery said:


> It is true. Morgans staying with mathews,,,,being forced to (lawsuit) this much I know as fact....
> Contract probably looked good when they signed it. Wonder what went wrong.
> What is rumored:
> 1. They may not shoot this year (but I doubt that. Levi makes to much $ kicking butts)
> 2. Lawsuit is ongoing...trying to when their freedom from mathews ( I think this is possible)
> 3. morgans re-signed contract for 2011 but later hear that their contengency money was being cut...(mathews is making a lot of cuts to their budget this year...this is fact)Would their contract not have language guaranteeing their contingency money? I would think they would be remiss not to have that locked in. If they didn't, isn't that their fault?
> ***4 Mathews threated to cut contengency pay/and or/ sponsor ship money to the archery orgs. if they allowed them to compete...(rumor......pure rumor..but I think this is possible... 50/50)


*MONEY TALKS AND BS WALKS...or so I'm told.*


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## Sith of Archery

Qreat question about the contengency! However the Mathehws contracts I have seen doese not state contengency $. To the best of my knowledge, Mathwes has not released that information for next year yet...Why? I have no idea


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## carlosii

not having the contingency language written in the contract seems to be to be akin to a pro baseball player signing a contract without any financial guarantees. i don't know squat about factory shooters contracts ( there aren't any offering contracts to guys who can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle). i do know some sign on just to get a bow and a hat. but i would have thought the "big guns" would have some language which would include more than that. be interesting know for certain what some of the top shooters are getting in the way of guarantees.
(hmmm.....4,000 posts...i need a new hobby, i think.)


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## Sith of Archery

the big huge dawgs may have theirs written in.. the contract I saw didn't


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## treeman65

The money should go to amatures seeing there are the ones that make the sport grow.Where is Levi when there are state qualifiers or state championship?How does not participating promote the sport?


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## bclowman

treeman65 said:


> The money should go to amatures seeing there are the ones that make the sport grow.Where is Levi when there are state qualifiers or state championship?How does not participating promote the sport?


State shoots are a joke for the most part. Why waste the time if your the best there is in the WORLD at 3D. If he showed up at the state shoot how many would he compete against in his pro/money class. Probably less than a handful if that. Not even worth the time if archery is your living.


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## carlosii

bclowman said:


> State shoots are a joke for the most part. Why waste the time if your the best there is in the WORLD at 3D. If he showed up at the state shoot how many would he compete against in his pro/money class. Probably less than a handful if that. Not even worth the time if archery is your living.


i don't know, is there a class for pros at the state championship shoots? i don't think christianberry shot the indiana championship and it was in his home town. burley hall wasn't there either. 

state shoots are, in many cases, not supported by the asa members in the state. i'm not certain why. to me, being a state champion is something of which you should take pride. like i always say, "i beat 'em all, whether they showed up or not". so you should take pride in your championship buckle regardless.


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## treeman65

bclowman said:


> State shoots are a joke for the most part. Why waste the time if your the best there is in the WORLD at 3D. If he showed up at the state shoot how many would he compete against in his pro/money class. Probably less than a handful if that. Not even worth the time if archery is your living.


GOOD WAY TO PROMOTE THE SPORT, That was a slap in the face to all the state directors and area reps,You have no idea home much hard work that goes in to qualifier by the directors and clubs involved.


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## treeman65

carlosii said:


> i don't know, is there a class for pros at the state championship shoots? i don't think christianberry shot the indiana championship and it was in his home town. burley hall wasn't there either.
> 
> state shoots are, in many cases, not supported by the asa members in the state. i'm not certain why. to me, being a state champion is something of which you should take pride. like i always say, "i beat 'em all, whether they showed up or not". so you should take pride in your championship buckle regardless.


I would like to see you compete in VA or NC .You will have more competiton that you can stand.


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## SteveID

treeman65 said:


> I would like to see you compete in VA or NC .You will have more competiton that you can stand.


Yep, it gets harder to judge yardage in VA and NC. 

Come on man, why would a guy who does this for a living attend a state shoot? Especially Levi Morgan, who last year was doing Life On the Road.

If it was a slap in the face to you that a few pros didn't come to your state shoot, then I would call you a little sensitive. That's like inviting somebody to your birthday party and being mad because they are too busy (read: too far out of your league) to make it.

Why would the money all go the the amateurs? Are they the ones in the spotlight at the Classic, at Redding, at Vegas? Nope, sorry. You might also notice that amateurs don't have 6 page threads written about them by grown men that are pretty much gossiping like middle school girls (me included). Like it or not, Levi will fuel bow sales based on what he has in his hands when he takes the line. Joe Blow down the street doesn't have that effect on the masses.


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## Jame

Its crazy to think that some of the guys on here dont think the pros support our local ASA clubs. There dead wrong. Yeah sometimes its hard to make a state shoot or a qualifier. Shooting every National ASA, IBO, and alot of the national indoor shoots makes it tough to make all the local qualifiers. Not only that when you finally get a weekend that you dont have to travel why travel. Stay home and enjoy the family or go fishing. Just because you dont see us at every ASA qualifier doesnt have anything to do with us not supporting it. Trust me. We support it. We all shot (including Levi) shot alot more qualifiers than most of you. 

State shoots are no joke. Take a drive down to Texas and say that. It wont fly there. I guarantee it. I have seen MIke and Tracy Smith busting there tales at every Texas qualifier held. Texas does an awesome job on there qualifiers and I am from Oklahoma and we dont hold a candle to them but we are getting better. 
Just my 2 cents,
Jame Jamison


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## HokieArcher

carlosii said:


> i don't know, is there a class for pros at the state championship shoots? i don't think christianberry shot the indiana championship and it was in his home town. burley hall wasn't there either.
> 
> state shoots are, in many cases, not supported by the asa members in the state. i'm not certain why. to me, being a state champion is something of which you should take pride. like i always say, "i beat 'em all, whether they showed up or not". so you should take pride in your championship buckle regardless.



Just wanted to answer your question, and yes there is a pro class at the state level. In 2009 Brandon Reyes, Loren Robinson, Richard Leftwich, Melvin Shrewsberry, and Whitney Meadows showed up to compete in our state shoot. Mike and Susan Davis also drove the Mathews truck and camped out at the club for the weekend, they didn't shoot but they did hand out the awards. It was great to see this at the state level. 

I know all of the pros can't make it to the state shoot, but if they can I think they should even if they don't shoot and just come to hand out the awards like Mike and Susan. I would consider it a pros charity work lol. Anything to help grow the sport of archery is a plus in my book.


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## maineyotekiller

SteveID said:


> Yep, it gets harder to judge yardage in VA and NC.
> 
> Come on man, why would a guy who does this for a living attend a state shoot? Especially Levi Morgan, who last year was doing Life On the Road.
> 
> If it was a slap in the face to you that a few pros didn't come to your state shoot, then I would call you a little sensitive. That's like inviting somebody to your birthday party and being mad because they are too busy (read: too far out of your league) to make it.
> 
> Why would the money all go the the amateurs? Are they the ones in the spotlight at the Classic, at Redding, at Vegas? Nope, sorry. You might also notice that amateurs don't have 6 page threads written about them by grown men that are pretty much gossiping like middle school girls (me included). Like it or not, Levi will fuel bow sales based on what he has in his hands when he takes the line. Joe Blow down the street doesn't have that effect on the masses.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


I think that covers it. Well said!


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## treeman65

SteveID said:


> Yep, it gets harder to judge yardage in VA and NC.
> 
> Come on man, why would a guy who does this for a living attend a state shoot? Especially Levi Morgan, who last year was doing Life On the Road.
> 
> If it was a slap in the face to you that a few pros didn't come to your state shoot, then I would call you a little sensitive. That's like inviting somebody to your birthday party and being mad because they are too busy (read: too far out of your league) to make it.
> 
> Why would the money all go the the amateurs? Are they the ones in the spotlight at the Classic, at Redding, at Vegas? Nope, sorry. You might also notice that amateurs don't have 6 page threads written about them by grown men that are pretty much gossiping like middle school girls (me included). Like it or not, Levi will fuel bow sales based on what he has in his hands when he takes the line. Joe Blow down the street doesn't have that effect on the masses.


 You are worst than the elder woman that sits down the streety and watches what everybody is doing and has NO CLUE.
For your info the slap in the face comment was made to the comment the blowman said about state shoots being a joke.


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## Leviticus

treeman65 said:


> The money should go to amatures seeing there are the ones that make the sport grow.Where is Levi when there are state qualifiers or state championship?How does not participating promote the sport?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!....Sorry man, this year ill be there and i'll leave a box of tampax at the sign up booth for ya....yea thats a great idea to pay all the money to the amateurs....just like all the successful sports...that is the one downfall to archery..everyone seems to think they deserve more than people who are actually out there really earning it....what an idiot!!!!!!...im sorry but this guy really cracked me up...some things that people talk themselves into believing is hilarious...maybe all the checks should go to u since u have just done so much.....pppffffff!


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## SteveID

treeman65 said:


> You are worst than the elder woman that sits down the streety and watches what everybody is doing and has NO CLUE.
> For your info the slap in the face comment was made to the comment the blowman said about state shoots being a joke.


I commend anybody who takes their time to help with organizing an event such as a state shoot, but for someone at the level of Levi, it would be almost a joke for him to show up at a state shoot. The guy doesn't have many weekends to himself, and his weekends are valuable. Is your state shoot going to pay out enough money for the pro class to make it worth it, or will the pro money be a joke?

I'm sorry, but you don't see Michael Jordan playing city league basketball during the middle of the NBA season. 

When the elite level competitors get a day off, they are going to take it. Why waste your time at a shoot that means nothing to you unless you are looking to get burned out.

Pretty sure Levi lets you know how he feels one post above this one.

Not sure what you are getting at calling me an old lady either...:confused3:


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## carlosii

treeman65 said:


> I would like to see you compete in VA or NC .You will have more competiton that you can stand.


bring it on...bring it on...carolwhiners??? i'll even shoot with one eye closed just to make it fair. :shade:


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## carlosii

HokieArcher said:


> Just wanted to answer your question, and yes there is a pro class at the state level. .


thanks for the information...i'm too lazy to look up things like that myself.
i sure didn't mean to demean two pros for whom i have a great respect (christenberry and hall). they are great representatives of our sport and i appreciate what they do...just wish i could do it half as well.


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## Bubba Dean

Pros are allowed to shoot at the qualifiers. However at the State Championship there is not a Pro Class(Pros are allowed to shoot but not compete) because the State Championship is the qualifier for the Classic. Pros can only qualify for the Classic through the ProAm tour.


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## bigGP

treeman65 said:


> The money should go to amatures seeing there are the ones that make the sport grow.Where is Levi when there are state qualifiers or state championship?How does not participating promote the sport?


Telling me you are kidding??? Yeah the NBA better pull $$$ from Kobe & Lebron and give it to the scrubs down at the elementary playing ball cuz THEY actually buy thier gear??? I am sure all the manufactures would have NO problem giving all that $$$ to amateurs and using them in catalogs and commercials? That MIGHT be the stupidest post i have EVER read on this sight in the almost 9 years i have been on here.


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## treeman65

not true. We had several pros shoot the championship this year.No ASA does not give out awards for them,
We even had one certain pro drive back from an IBO shoot to stop and see how the championship went,.

Maybe I went about my psot wrong but there are several pros that shoot local shoots to help out.


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## J Whittington

Based on last years attendance, if all the amatures stayed home and only pros attended the asa shoot in fla this coming feb.. there would only be 140 shooters there! (mens pro, sr pro , women pro and finger pro) I don't think the ASA, IBO nor any orginization could exist *without *the amatures... So I have to disagree with some of the comments about the amatures... but I do see the point of the pros too ( I do pay and compete in the pro class...my money form my pocket) *but we gotta show more appreciation for the amatures...*

IMHO. When you compare the earnings for archery pros to pros of other sports. What do you get? Thats right, a big difference.... what a joke. *Im the first to admit that pro archery pay stinks. just my opinion..... even when your as talented and succesful as Levi, Jeffro, Darrrin and the others, the play is redicously low....those in other sports with equal talents/ability/ success are Millionares sevral times over....each year!!!!*

I also have a beef with some of the amatures and some of the practices of a the manufactors........Why *have a so called pro staff if your sponosred shooter is not competing in the pro class? Duh?*

There are pros, competing that are not receiving any factory help...no $ no bows, no equipment. They are buying their stuff just like everyone else. These folks are competing in the toughest class avaliable, against the best in the world, without receivng any support....and then we have those getting X amount of bows/ equipment/ that are shooting in the amature classes that have no intentions of ever moving up.... Thats what I don't understand nor agree with.... just my opinion

Levi..your awesome.... :77:

amatures don't misconstrude what what Im saying.. Im not anit amature by any stretch. I shot amature for years...only 1 year as a pro. ( yes I stunk).....but to think you deserve as much as the pros...sorry but your wrong. no offense intended.

Thanks to the amatures for coming to the shoots. Your the customers...Your the guys and gals that supports us all....Without your purchases of equipment, and participation, National archery events would die out quicker than a fish out of water. Without the amatures, there would be no pro class. The Manufactors gotta make a profit to have a contengency program.


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## JawsDad

bigGP said:


> Telling me you are kidding??? Yeah the NBA better pull $$$ from Kobe & Lebron and give it to the scrubs down at the elementary playing ball cuz THEY actually buy thier gear??? I am sure all the manufactures would have NO problem giving all that $$$ to amateurs and using them in catalogs and commercials? That MIGHT be the stupidest post i have EVER read on this sight in the almost 9 years i have been on here.


******** Armageddon alert ********

The end of the world is near.. You and I agree on something. :chortle:

Money in any amount to "amateurs" is pretty much a contradiction to me, but that's a topic for a different day..


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## absolutecool

J Whittington said:


> Based on last years attendance, if all the amatures stayed home and only pros attended the asa shoot in fla this coming feb.. there would only be 140 shooters there! (mens pro, sr pro , women pro and finger pro) I don't think the ASA, IBO nor any orginization could exist *without *the amatures... So I have to disagree with some of the comments about the amatures... but I do see the point of the pros too ( I do pay and compete in the pro class...my money form my pocket) *but we gotta show more appreciation for the amatures...*
> 
> IMHO. When you compare the earnings for archery pros to pros of other sports. What do you get? Thats right, a big difference.... what a joke. *Im the first to admit that pro archery pay stinks. just my opinion..... even when your as talented and succesful as Levi, Jeffro, Darrrin and the others, the play is redicously low....those in other sports with equal talents/ability/ success are Millionares sevral times over....each year!!!!*
> 
> I also have a beef with some of the amatures and some of the practices of a the manufactors........Why *have a so called pro staff if your sponosred shooter is not competing in the pro class? Duh?*
> 
> There are pros, competing that are not receiving any factory help...no $ no bows, no equipment. They are buying their stuff just like everyone else. These folks are competing in the toughest class avaliable, against the best in the world, without receivng any support....and then we have those getting X amount of bows/ equipment/ that are shooting in the amature classes that have no intentions of ever moving up.... Thats what I don't understand nor agree with.... just my opinion
> 
> Levi..your awesome.... :77:
> 
> amatures don't misconstrude what what Im saying.. Im not anit amature by any stretch. I shot amature for years...only 1 year as a pro. ( yes I stunk).....but to think you deserve as much as the pros...sorry but your wrong. no offense intended.
> 
> Thanks to the amatures for coming to the shoots. Your the customers...Your the guys and gals that supports us all....Without your purchases of equipment, and participation, National archery events would die out quicker than a fish out of water. Without the amatures, there would be no pro class. The Manufactors gotta make a profit to have a contengency program.



Awesome and intelligent post!! Amazing!! Thanks for what you have said, as an amature that some day would love to shoot pro that is a great post!!! I shoot because I love it, not because I think I am entitled to whatever....I buy all my equipment with my money that I save...I pay my entry fees out of my pocket...imagine paying the pro entry fee and not placing and winning any back...do they whine about it...I haven't heard any of them complaining about it and I ride to some shoots with one pro, he never says a word if he doesn't place well. He is just happy to be shooting again after having a couple of rough years!!

If we love this sport as much as we all claim why can't we just go shoot and have a good time, life is too short to complain about petty crap. We lost a friend that went to a few shoots this year to cancer a couple of months ago, Allen, some of you may have met him on the range..did you ever hear of him complaining as he walked to each target on his crutches? I never did, he was just happy to be able to shoot!! We could learn a lot from folks like him!!


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## Kstigall

carlosii said:


> bring it on...bring it on...carolwhiners??? i'll even shoot with one eye closed just to make it fair. :shade:


If you are going to use my taunt use it correctly........... they are "Carowhiners"! Not to be confused with Fairylanders though they are very similar.

Ok, now back to the important topic of this thread.... :blah:


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## carlosii

Bubba Dean said:


> Pros are allowed to shoot at the qualifiers. However at the State Championship there is not a Pro Class(Pros are allowed to shoot but not compete) because the State Championship is the qualifier for the Classic. Pros can only qualify for the Classic through the ProAm tour.


 I knew you'd save my bacon Bubba.


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## carlosii

Kstigall said:


> If you are going to use my taunt use it correctly........... they are "Carowhiners"! Not to be confused with Fairylanders though they are very similar.
> 
> Ok, now back to the important topic of this thread.... :blah:


sorry...having a bad hair day i guess. thanks for setting me straight.


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## HokieArcher

Bubba Dean said:


> Pros are allowed to shoot at the qualifiers. However at the State Championship there is not a Pro Class(Pros are allowed to shoot but not compete) because the State Championship is the qualifier for the Classic. Pros can only qualify for the Classic through the ProAm tour.


The federation rules state that there is a pro class and the pros may compete as guest shooters, but this does not qualify them for the Classic. 
So there is a class for them to compete in, but mainly just for fun and to support the state.


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## CutTheLoop

Most of our state's ASA Pros attend a majority of our qualifiers, even if only to shoot for fun.


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## bclowman

treeman65 said:


> GOOD WAY TO PROMOTE THE SPORT, That was a slap in the face to all the state directors and area reps,You have no idea home much hard work that goes in to qualifier by the directors and clubs involved.


It must be a whole lot more complex in North Carolina then. Keep in my mind i am refering to all the state tourneys, not just the ASA state qualifier. Seriously, the attendance level of our state NFAA shoots are horrible and if it is true that there will not be a guest class allowed it will be even lower. As far as our state ASA shoots, out of all the folks i know that shoot the 3D's i only know of two for sure that have ever went. Heck, i don't even think i have seen it on a schedule anywhere to be honest although the ASA pro-ams are listed. Hate to come off like a jerk but the state shoots aren't taken very seriously. Atleast here anyways. I hope that changes one day. Heck, i only know of one bow shop that supports the state archery circuits. That's sad. If you look threw the archives of the state shoot results it has been the same people showing up year after year with VERRRRY little new blood.


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## treeman65

Leviticus said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!....Sorry man, this year ill be there and i'll leave a box of tampax at the sign up booth for ya....yea thats a great idea to pay all the money to the amateurs....just like all the successful sports...that is the one downfall to archery..everyone seems to think they deserve more than people who are actually out there really earning it....what an idiot!!!!!!...im sorry but this guy really cracked me up...some things that people talk themselves into believing is hilarious...maybe all the checks should go to u since u have just done so much.....pppffffff!


Levi I apologize I dont know what I was thinking you are the man.:clap2:
You can keep your box of tampax at home but thanks for the offer.


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## Daniel Boone

I doubt many what a piece of Levi Morgan! Levi a great ambassador to the sport. True gentlemen on the range and one of the best I have ever seen shoot. Thread been interesting for sure. Something tells me Levi and Sam will do fine in the future!
DB


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## Daniel Boone

CutTheLoop said:


> Most of our state's ASA Pros attend a majority of our qualifiers, even if only to shoot for fun.


Same here in Oklahoma. Good practice for them and time to spend doing what they love.
DB


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## genohuh

soooooo anyway!!!!! well my 2 cents worth.. I am a Pse pro staff shooter and have been out of the loop for awhile but im back now and in my opinion....>>>.> anyone and i mean anyone can shoot Pro..... that being said anyone that wants the money givin to the amatuers is crazy.. Dude to be able to compete in the Pro division you have to be on your Game and by doing that it takes alot of work and then more work.. and some Luck... that being said Levi is the man among us Boys right now and is the Les miles of archery ill take luck. but the skill he brings to the table.. well to make a long story short.. any amatuer that wants to be a pro and get the Money you get out and Bust your @ss like Levi has done and many more....he didnt get were he is now by his name.. he made the name... all these rumors n here about lawsuits and such all i know is Good Luck levi Dude at 23 you have acheieved a lifetime of accomplishments that most people will never see at 70... and to those that want want want... i say you need to earn earn earn it!!!!! im just saying!!!


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## CutTheLoop

bclowman said:


> It must be a whole lot more complex in North Carolina then. Keep in my mind i am refering to all the state tourneys, not just the ASA state qualifier. Seriously, the attendance level of our state NFAA shoots are horrible and if it is true that there will not be a guest class allowed it will be even lower. As far as our state ASA shoots, out of all the folks i know that shoot the 3D's i only know of two for sure that have ever went. Heck, i don't even think i have seen it on a schedule anywhere to be honest although the ASA pro-ams are listed. Hate to come off like a jerk but the state shoots aren't taken very seriously. Atleast here anyways. I hope that changes one day. Heck, i only know of one bow shop that supports the state archery circuits. That's sad. *If you look threw the archives of the state shoot results it has been the same people showing up year after year with VERRRRY little new blood.*


good point


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## carlosii

treeman65 said:


> Levi I apologize I dont know what I was thinking you are the man.:clap2:
> You can keep your box of tampax at home but thanks for the offer.



Ouch! Shootin' oneself in the foot smarts, I'll bet. :wink::wink:

(Just funnin' wichya)


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## Devine Shot

IMHO one of the biggest problems is with the pro class is hardly any money in their to make anyone strive to be a pro. The only ones that are doing so are just to do it to prove it to themselves. What we have right now is paying amateurs decent money with some great contingency that should be given to the pros. And for that we have guys tanking shoots when they get close to winning out of there class, and then their are semi pros who do not show up to all the shoots because they will win out and be forced to be a pro. Since the money is not there they are comfortable where they are.Some just are not ready to give that commitment but I think it would be a higher priority if they could make a comfortable living shooting. 

Then saying all that we need to keep the amateurs fired up in big numbers to keep the sport growing, so where is the middle ground. Me and my family have benefited very nicely from amateurs money just our first full year in the sport and it was very nice, but after getting involved with trying to grow the sport it is sad to see the pro's getting a raw deal with all that hard work they put into it. 

Their needs to be more incentive for us amateurs to get up in the pro class....


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## gud235

Devine Shot said:


> IMHO one of the biggest problems is with the pro class is hardly any money in their to make anyone strive to be a pro. The only ones that are doing so are just to do it to prove it to themselves. What we have right now is paying amateurs decent money with some great contingency that should be given to the pros. And for that we have guys tanking shoots when they get close to winning out of there class, and then their are semi pros who do not show up to all the shoots because they will win out and be forced to be a pro. Since the money is not there they are comfortable where they are.Some just are not ready to give that commitment but I think it would be a higher priority if they could make a comfortable living shooting.
> 
> Then saying all that we need to keep the amateurs fired up in big numbers to keep the sport growing, so where is the middle ground. Me and my family have benefited very nicely from amateurs money just our first full year in the sport and it was very nice, but after getting involved with trying to grow the sport it is sad to see the pro's getting a raw deal with all that hard work they put into it.
> 
> Their needs to be more incentive for us amateurs to get up in the pro class....


Well..... What about some outside sponsers. Coke, Pepsi, ATV companies, clothing and boot companies, maybe even a beer company or two, just to name a few. Look at bass fishing, the money is very good, and they have outside sponsers. What about sponsers the PGA has: insurance companies, automobile manufacters, etc. For tournament archery to go mainstream, the sport needs mainstream sponsers.


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## rodney482

gud235 said:


> Well..... What about some outside sponsers. Coke, Pepsi, ATV companies, clothing and boot companies, maybe even a beer company or two, just to name a few. Look at bass fishing, the money is very good, and they have outside sponsers. What about sponsers the PGA has: insurance companies, automobile manufacters, etc. For tournament archery to go mainstream, the sport needs mainstream sponsers.


and it wont have big sponsor like that until its on the main networks.


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## carlosii

gud235 said:


> Well..... What about some outside sponsers. Coke, Pepsi, ATV companies, clothing and boot companies, maybe even a beer company or two, just to name a few. Look at bass fishing, the money is very good, and they have outside sponsers. What about sponsers the PGA has: insurance companies, automobile manufacters, etc. For tournament archery to go mainstream, the sport needs mainstream sponsers.


thing is, archers are way out-numbered by fishermen and golfers. at least that's the way it looks to me. big time sponsors put there money where it gets the most bang.
fishermen use batteries so you get Interstate sponsoring bass fishing. they use fuel in them honkin' big boats so they get sponsors there. they have to have big honkin' trucks to haul them big honkin' boats and everytime they lauch them on tv that's advertising exposure. big time insurance execs play golf so if they buy into golf sponsorships so they can stand next to the pro and get their pitcher took. same with the nascar sponsors. pay to put your name on a car and you get to hang out with the drivers (and their hot girl friends). you get one of the big sponsors involved the others kind of follow along. and big sponsors want their names on the tube and they are the ones that knock on the door of espn and get their event on the networks. it takes years of knocking to get there.

how can we stack up against that?


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## J Whittington

Devine Shot said:


> IMHO one of the biggest problems is with the pro class is hardly any money in their to make anyone strive to be a pro. The only ones that are doing so are just to do it to prove it to themselves. What we have right now is paying amateurs decent money with some great contingency that should be given to the pros. And for that we have guys tanking shoots when they get close to winning out of there class, and then their are semi pros who do not show up to all the shoots because they will win out and be forced to be a pro. Since the money is not there they are comfortable where they are.Some just are not ready to give that commitment but I think it would be a higher priority if they could make a comfortable living shooting.
> 
> Then saying all that we need to keep the amateurs fired up in big numbers to keep the sport growing, so where is the middle ground. Me and my family have benefited very nicely from amateurs money just our first full year in the sport and it was very nice, but after getting involved with trying to grow the sport it is sad to see the pro's getting a raw deal with all that hard work they put into it.
> 
> Their needs to be more incentive for us amateurs to get up in the pro class....


I agree but the incentive for shooting/staying in the pro class is not what it used to be either. Numbers are falling like acorns on a tree.....


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## gud235

carlosii said:


> thing is, archers are way out-numbered by fishermen and golfers. at least that's the way it looks to me. big time sponsors put there money where it gets the most bang.
> fishermen use batteries so you get Interstate sponsoring bass fishing. they use fuel in them honkin' big boats so they get sponsors there. they have to have big honkin' trucks to haul them big honkin' boats and everytime they lauch them on tv that's advertising exposure. big time insurance execs play golf so if they buy into golf sponsorships so they can stand next to the pro and get their pitcher took. same with the nascar sponsors. pay to put your name on a car and you get to hang out with the drivers (and their hot girl friends). you get one of the big sponsors involved the others kind of follow along. and big sponsors want their names on the tube and they are the ones that knock on the door of espn and get their event on the networks. it takes years of knocking to get there.
> 
> how can we stack up against that?


I didn't say it would happen over night. It didn't happen over night for the above mentioned sports. As you mentioned: "you get one of the big sponsors involved the others kind of follow along". Maybe get some personalities involved. Hank Parker, Mike Waddel, Chris Brackett, etc. That might would help with the TV exposure.


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## genohuh

I was Going to shoot in the Pro division in 2011 but after Talking to .. well no names lets just say The Man Thats over all The leading Pro's and i dont mean a shoot i mean at the MFG.. Told me point blank . and i quote " Do not go into the Pro division unless you are made to" unquote.. So there for ill be shooting Semi in 2011. he didnt say why he just said that....


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## Bubba Dean

3D archery is about 20 years behind Pro Bass Fishing. If Pro 3D wants to be like Bass fishing is then here are some things that has to happen.......first, there would be one Pro class(bass fishing does have a women's division but men of all ages are in one class).......major increase in entry fees(bass fishing went from $125 in the early days to $5000 now).......outside the archery industry sponsors would have to sponsor shooters and tournaments............there would have to be television coverage of archery tournaments(BASS gets this because ESPN bought BASS).....you would have to have a dedicated fan base(millions of fisherpersons in US).

Can Pro 3D get to where Pro fishing is? Only time will tell. Personally I feel that the Pro class now would be larger if the entry fee was lower. That being said I wonder how many shooters there would be in the Pro classes if the entry fees went to $1000 per tournament. I would imagine that the big three would be paying for less shooters thus causing more shooters to be paying their own way and ceasing to shoot. JMO


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## genohuh

what i dont understand is people like Bill Jordan and other's dont get on the Band wagon.. he likes 3d i know.....i know there are million of Archer's out there... when wayne Pearson owned ASA it was on espn2 payouts wasnt much difference either... The sport has room to grow and can. I just wonder why Espn and other channels stay away from it? maybe th eoutdoor channel would pick it up or maybe levi or someone else would make a show of just 3d and put it on the outdoor channel i would be glued to it.. it would create some different sponsers as wel.. Hmmmmm food for thought!!!


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## bclowman

genohuh said:


> what i dont understand is people like Bill Jordan and other's dont get on the Band wagon.. he likes 3d i know.....i know there are million of Archer's out there... when wayne Pearson owned ASA it was on espn2 payouts wasnt much difference either... The sport has room to grow and can. I just wonder why Espn and other channels stay away from it? maybe th eoutdoor channel would pick it up or maybe levi or someone else would make a show of just 3d and put it on the outdoor channel i would be glued to it.. it would create some different sponsers as wel.. Hmmmmm food for thought!!!


 There was and is a show that Levi was actually part of on TV. It's called Full Draw Adventures. The last half of the show is 3D archery. I liked it but i don't think the majority of the viewers (hunters/non-target archers) care for it. Heck, the majority of the people on AT haven't even heard of it. I think Bil McCall actually does the show.


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## carlosii

realtree has sponsored asa pro/ams in the past.
the channel that carries morgan's program ain't on dish network so alot of people can't get it.


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## J Whittington

Devine Shot said:


> IMHO one of the biggest problems is with the pro class is hardly any money in their to make anyone strive to be a pro. The only ones that are doing so are just to do it to prove it to themselves. What we have right now is paying amateurs decent money with some great contingency that should be given to the pros. And for that we have guys tanking shoots when they get close to winning out of there class, and then their are semi pros who do not show up to all the shoots because they will win out and be forced to be a pro. Since the money is not there they are comfortable where they are.Some just are not ready to give that commitment but I think it would be a higher priority if they could make a comfortable living shooting.
> 
> Then saying all that we need to keep the amateurs fired up in big numbers to keep the sport growing, so where is the middle ground. Me and my family have benefited very nicely from amateurs money just our first full year in the sport and it was very nice, but after getting involved with trying to grow the sport it is sad to see the pro's getting a raw deal with all that hard work they put into it.
> 
> Their needs to be more incentive for us amateurs to get up in the pro class....


and for the pros that are not making thoussands of $$$ to stay....... Manufactors should be required to give a pro (that shoots x amount of shoots per year) a bow or two.. its a tax write off for them.


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## 3Dblackncamo

levi, I know you are probably hunting somewhere how about telling us how many shoots you won with skinny shafts


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## NY911

Levi shot a QUADRUPLE drop tined Ohio Buck last week....


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## carlosii

:yawn::sleepy2::sleepy2:
time to unsubscribe this thread...


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## Daniel Boone

bclowman said:


> There was and is a show that Levi was actually part of on TV. It's called Full Draw Adventures. The last half of the show is 3D archery. I liked it but i don't think the majority of the viewers (hunters/non-target archers) care for it. Heck, the majority of the people on AT haven't even heard of it. I think Bil McCall actually does the show.


Levi is no longer with Full draw adventures. Bill McCall is still running that show.
DB


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## 3Dblackncamo

carlosii said:


> realtree has sponsored asa pro/ams in the past.
> the channel that carries morgan's program ain't on dish network so alot of people can't get it.


I heard levi has new hd cameras and some of the tv channels like the outdoor channel requires hd so we will probably see levi in 11 on the outdoor channel


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## ventilator44

well , you are not gonna see him with PSE thats for sure! staying with Mathews!!!


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## bigdogarcher

Heck I'd shoot pro if I got my entry fee paid for.....Can't afford those smackers......


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## Dartonman

Levi invented the compound bow
Levi helped invent the internet
Levi will cure male pattern baldness
Levi walked on water
Let me see....what have I forgotten ??


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## jre4192

Dartonman said:


> Levi invented the compound bow
> Levi helped invent the internet
> Levi will cure male pattern baldness
> Levi walked on water
> Let me see....what have I forgotten ??



Thats odd I thought Tim Tebow did all that.


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## Dartonman

Nope....sorry...that was Levi

He also voted Republican on Tuesday and is responsible for the "power shift"


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## shooter74

hate to say it but who cares.


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## Dartonman

Thank you ! Now...How do I unsubscribe from this thread:teeth:


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## swamprabbit

Its almost like the chuck Norris jokes.


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## Hopperton

Dartonman said:


> Nope....sorry...that was Levi
> 
> He also voted Republican on Tuesday and is responsible for the "power shift"


Well I really owe Levi a thanks for the power shift.


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## SynapsesFire

The boogeyman checks under his bed every night to make sure there is no levi under it. 

If google can't find it, Levi can.

If levi is late, time better slow the hell down..


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## r prista

*Its All About Hero Worship*

:mg:These poor groupies in the world of bowdom obviously need a hero to look up to & have selected a kid(ie Levi Morgan ) who is without a doubt a good 3-D shooter. However, as stated in prior posts, who gives a rats a__!All of the pro shooters are product " salesmen and are into for the MUN-NAY!!. Just research who has shot for who over the years & you'll find that its like a revolving door! But once again , who cares!! These guys are making a nice living off of any or all of us that purchase bows, sights, quivers, stabilizers etc, etc, etc.:darkbeer: So sit back take a deep breath & have a drink on me!!:shade:


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## athomPT

r prista said:


> :mg:These poor groupies in the world of bowdom obviously need a hero to look up to & have selected a kid(ie Levi Morgan ) who is without a doubt a good 3-D shooter. However, as stated in prior posts, who gives a rats a__!All of the pro shooters are product " salesmen and are into for the MUN-NAY!!. Just research who has shot for who over the years & you'll find that its like a revolving door! But once again , who cares!! These guys are making a nice living off of any or all of us that purchase bows, sights, quivers, stabilizers etc, etc, etc.:darkbeer: So sit back take a deep breath & have a drink on me!!:shade:


You reopened this thread to say what???


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## TAYLOR CO.

athomPT said:


> You reopened this thread to say what???


Yes, why? You must be wanting to hear from him yourself..I don't need a role-model or hero...Jesus is my Hero! That kid is one awesome shot with a bow and is doing something with a bow that I wish that I could do. I know who Levi's hero is too..We share that.


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## r prista

*Come on guys don't cry*

You two previous guys on this thread take yourself & AT way too serious, which is really kind of boring.Yeah, I acknowledged that Morgan has talent but just didn't care about who he shoots for! Ya got a problem with that? Its just fun getting under your skin!:darkbeer:


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## wolfeman

yea all mathews people do! haha he was just in a cd of mathews i dont hes gong to pse. plus he knows that mathews just cant simple be beat

CATCH US IF YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## carlosii

and the beat goes on...and the beat goes on...(apologies to cher):asleep::asleep:


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## lawyer

sounds like he is finally moving up in the world.Good stuff!!


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## rodney482

this one has ran its course.


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