# How much would you pay to enter a 3D Tournament!



## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

How much would you pay to enter a 3D Tournament ? If the payout was fair and the winnings where worth the trip how much would you pay ? Would you pay $250 or more for a chance to win good money ? Just a brainstorm I had. If we could get good sponsors at ASA and raise the entry fee for some classes would it make the trip more worth while, would you practice more, would you take the sport more serious ? Just a thought!


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

I am retired!!!!!! $250 --you won't find me there.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

I think raising it to that would be the end of it....I think less places need to be paided out. I know of some guys getting checks for 6 bucks. I would say top ten or even top 5. Then the money would go up, contingency is the only way to break even if you travel with a group.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Not me*

$250.00 plus traveling exspenses would not be a good option for myself.


Doubt if I ever pay those kinda exspenses again. Been there and done that.

DB


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## BowTechCDR (Apr 26, 2010)

That depends.

If I have to shoot in the rain, $250 is too much. If it is a beautiful, humidity free day, sign me up. lol!!!!!!

Seriously,
I would fork over some dough to shoot, but, I am no pro. I have shot some 290s and have seen too many people shoot mid to high 3 teens to spend that much money. I think I might be in for around $100.

I probably would not practice more and I have purposely avoided the type of competition you speak of because I don't want to ruin the fun I have by getting overly competitive. As it stands now, I can't have fun when I shoot with my brother in law, Beelo, because we are so competitive. And that is with just bragging rights on the line!


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I think I paid $35.00 to enter the R100 Rhinehart shoot. Thats about the limit for me. It was worth it tho and probably more.....I had a ball!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Now DB you could win that entry fee money back ! Compared to joining the NFAA and shooting Vegas and the Indoor Nationals 3D is pretty cheap! How about $100.00 to enter lower the payout to the Top Ten how would that be!! I agree with the other post getting a
check for $6 is a little funny....I am just brain storming long night working midnights!!


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## IBOHunt3D (Jun 6, 2006)

Considering I paid $82 for the IBO worlds, I would say that while I am not opposed to spending some coin to compete, $250 is a bit steep for an amateur class entry fee. If the incentive was enough, than $100 is about as high as I would go. Still, 250 shooters at $100 ea, and that's $25,000 to payout. Assuming the club pockets 50%, that still leaves $12,500 to be paid out to the shooters. Pay out $6,250 for first, $3,125 for second, $1,562.50 for third, $781.25 for fourth, and $390.60 for fifth. The top three places earn into the thousands, and the remaining two places still cover entry fees and most travel expenses.

It's a thought anyway. The sad reality is that until we get major sponsorship of tournaments from non-archery sponsors, the shooters will be doing most of the funding for their prizes.

CG


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I think it would NOT be a good idea to jack the price of entry up. However, I do pay $150 to shoot the Lancaster Classic which is an indoor spot tourney in which I'm competitive. I would NOT pay $150 many times a year knowing I wasn't competitive. Look at Semi-Pro and Open A. A lot of the guys that shoot Open A occasionally or frequently that put up competitive scores are probably shooting Open A because they have NO desire to pay the Semi-Pro entry fee. 

I think the ASA could definitely cut the number of places paid. 
I looked at the Illinois payout fro the most popular classes which are the backbone of the ASA.
Open A paid 16 places and #16 received $18.
Open B paid 20 places and #20 got $13.
Open C paid 21 places and #21 got $8.
Hunter paid 21 places and #21 got $10.
Bow Novice paid 25 places and #25 got $7.
K45 paid out 22 and #22 got $14.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking capping payout to 10% of the shooters for the larger classes. Or use a payout chart rather than a percentage of the shooters to determine the number of places to be paid out. Maybe payout a maximum of 10 or so places. Would it cause more people to more quickly be moved up and is that a good thing? At the end of the year would it save the ASA some money and time by reducing the number of checks printed and mailed?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Cenochs*



cenochs said:


> Now DB you could win that entry fee money back ! Compared to joining the NFAA and shooting Vegas and the Indoor Nationals 3D is pretty cheap! How about $100.00 to enter lower the payout to the Top Ten how would that be!! I agree with the other post getting a
> check for $6 is a little funny....I am just brain storming long night working midnights!!


$100.00 sounds more in my price range. But honestly being a senior shooter my days will be shooting against the seniors. 
DB


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Wouldn't pay it. Not even a $100.

In all reality, why top places can't win descent money is because the ASA pays out way too many places. Ever see their payout sheet? It goes up to paying 25 shooters for 125 in class. Personally, I'd hack the pay sheet back to maximum of 5 being paid - 1st thru 5th. 
State level; 125 in class, $10 in pot per shooter, purse equals $1,250.00. By ASA pay sheet 1st would get $96.12. If paying 5, 1st would get $416.62. So what's goes in the pot for nationals?


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## ramboarhunter (Jun 5, 2006)

*Price to shoot*

I would pay $.18 per shot as that is twice the price per arrow as it would cost me to shoot a field shoot. Also I would not wait more than 5 min. per target to shoot that target.


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## SET THE HOOK (Dec 30, 2004)

knowing i dont have a chance of winning money..NO WAY!!


shoots around me, 8 to 12$ I would pay more to shoot a R100 but not much more.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

ramboarhunter said:


> I would pay $.18 per shot as that is twice the price per arrow as it would cost me to shoot a field shoot. Also I would not wait more than 5 min. per target to shoot that target.


Lets see here... ProAm event this year, my class, Super Senior. 6 shooters per target. If you were #6 we'd then had 5 shooters cause 5 minutes would have been used up. Actually, it took us 4 hours to shoot 20 targets each day.
But then, the last time I shot a Field Championship it took 5 hours each day. For that 10 hour effort I got a 2nd place $2.85 medal "Made in China." 
Whoops! I forgot. The first time I broke 500 I had to pay for my 500 patch.
Whoops! I forgot. I took Champion and had to pay for every bar for what lanes I shot perfect on. I did get a Champion Patch and the Starter Pin for the bars I bought.
Whoops! I forgot. One of the finest Field ranges in the state near me is stopping field shooting. Too Expensive to keep up the range. Of course this makes the 3D members happy as it was the money 3D made that paid for the field range to start with. We finally have Officers with brains.
Whoops! I forgot. What was your problem?


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Back on midnights so here goes! How about if the ASA seperated the classes into amateur and Pro and all the entry fees would go to paying the Pro Classes. For men I would consider Open Pro, Semi Pro , Know 50, and Senior Pro what else am I missing is there a limited and unlimited pro? The amateur classes would be awarded plaques or
trophies. Also the entry fee for the Pro Classes would be raised a little. Then the payout would be allot greater with bonus money for shooter of the year, and rookie of the year for new shooters in any of the Pro Classes.


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## Josh_Putman (Jun 18, 2004)

So what you are saying is the amateur entry fee's would pay the Pro winnings? 

If that's the case, then count me out. I will stick to shooting local stuff or shooting in my back yard (when I get one).

I do agree with what some others have posted. Stop paying out so many places. Limit it to the top five or so, and the purses will be larger.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Ok let's go another route ...... I do like the idea of paying less places and the last place paid should not be less than the entry fee for the class....So what really needs to be done is pick up sponsors, the ASA has 7 total shots so we need 7 sponsors. A few off the top of my head would be Easton, Hoyt, Mathews, Mckenzie, PSE, Bowtech, Goldtip. Or have one large sponsor to cover the entire ASA circuit like Nascar has Nextel.. But if this was to happen and create a TRUE 3D Tour then in reality majority of the prize would have to go to the Pro Classes. This would be what archers that participated in the tour should be striving for. Also a moveup list and a movedown list!!! If there was a True 3D Tour then more people would be sponsored. So Sponsors plus less payout places equals a trip worth going on!!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Cenochs, I think you're off base or grasping for "straws" and on the bias side.
The vast majority of shooters are not of the Pro Divisions. This would be just like the problem with the big organizations now. Who gets highlighted? Mostly the Pros. Who makes up the biggest part of the organizations? Guys like me. We help put on Qualifiers and State Championships and participate when we can. When was the last time you saw some organization highlight a State Champion? Who buys the bows and archery equipment? Yep, us guys in the lower ranks. Pro so and so has 2 bows to shoot different type events. How much did he pay for them? I know one that has 4 brand new bows and never paid a dime for them. Another I know has a unlimited number of dozens of arrows if he would want. And then the tons of archery tackle, arrows, vanes, tips, nocks, sight frames, lens, releases and whatever. We pay out of our pocket and some Pros and other Sponsored shooters pay next to nothing or nothing for these. In other words or short to the point, Pros and Sponsored shooters get pay through low cost or paying nothing for their equipment.

You mentioned NASCAR. Here is a strictly Pro field. Sponsors pay the way along with whatever the entry fees are. Can Pro Archers make it? Doubtful. BUT, you have to go back in time. At one time there was such a division, Sponsored Shooters. Archery tackle manufacturers paid the way. I may not be exact, but if you want I'll dig the article up and put the whole thing in here.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

With the current system the only way to raise prize money is either increase entry fees or number of shooters. The only way to increase the money without an increase in the other two is by sponsor money. If a manufacturer "adopted" a class and put in money per shoot then the money would increase. One thing to remember is if you have 200 shooters @ $100 that is $20,000 paid but not paid out. In ASA the pot would be $14,000(70%) in IBO the pot would be around $10,000(I came up with this figure by adding the payout for the World shoot vs the amount of entry fees collect by class). I think raising the entry would only drive more shooters away not increase our numbers.


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

I wouldnt mind paying higher entry fees if there were a chance to win some real good money. If we could get some bigger sponsors like budwesier, Miller, Chevrolet, etc. we could really make events worth going to. 

I dont think that ASA needs to pay the top 20% of each class. I think only paying the top 5 or 10 would be the way to go. Higher organization payout and more contingency money would improve the appearance of our sport to the public. I had 3 podium finishes this year at ASA pro-ams and when people not familiar with our sport ask what kind of money I made they can't believe the amount is so low. I will continue to go to national tournaments regardless of the payout amounts because I love competeting with the top shooters in the country. It would just be a little more worthwhile to come home with several thousand dollars instead of $500. If that means paying higher entry fees then thats what I'll do. I'll have to pay $125 in Semi-pro next season and in my opinion its worth it due to the higer pay-outs.

I think that higher entry fees will discourage the average joe from going to the national level tournaments so we need to keep entry fees lower for hunter class and also have an entry level open class (like Open C) with lower entry fees to keep numbers up.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Well, we use to have just 10% of the field, people whined that enough places were not being paid back

Then we went to 25% of the field....this in turned cut the purse size down for the top 3 places considerably.....the ones at the top of course didn't feel that was fair to them for a great job of win/place/show....

Then went to 20% of the field to give a balance to both sides...

This is how I believe I remember it ( if) im wrong sorry.

Now,
opinion.... I think we need to leave it how it is for the state level that seems to be working fine in my eyes.

For the national events though, I do think we need to award the top 3 a majority of the purse monies, and cut off the monies at least at where the entry money for a participate is paid into to class: For instance, if a class is paying $100. a shooter.....the last person paid should not be less then 100 bucks, and with doing the mathematical formulas any monies that show to be left over would be rolled into 1/2/3:

So, let's say there is 90 shooters we then go to paying out from 9000X70% =$6300. If we get down to say 11th or 12 place those dollar amounts are below 100 ...say 95 and 50 ....Those dollars would be added to the 1st and 2nd place finisher.


I tried to type this out in simpliest terms, so if it doesn't make sense sorry LOL.


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## lovetobowhunt (Aug 22, 2004)

I started shooting Buckmasters Top Bow a few years ago. The only way to win money at this event is to win it all. They have 2 qualifiers and the the World. The entry fee for the qual. is $350 and the World is another $400. I finished 10th in the world last year and I got $400 back. But it cost me well over $1000 for the 2 shoots plus travel, motel, and food. Now if you win the World you get $25,000 for it. The qualifier only pays $2500 for the win plus a 4 wheeler.

I'm thinking this is the last year for me in it. I got to looking at the costs and realized I could attend all the ASA shoots and come out about the same amount of money spent. I started ASA this year and loved it. I made 3 this year and plan on all 7 next year.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Back on midnights last one and then off for a week! When I was talking about raising entry fees I meant only for the national events the Pro Ams! I agree with something in every post...it would be nice to have 2 entry level classes one bowhunter and the other a entry level open for beginners and people who just like to go and shoot for fun and get out of the house! Then have like a Open A , Semi Pro and Pro that entry fees would be raised. My opinion on the Pro Ams is that they are for serious competitors that try to improve and win at every event and local events are for occasional and people that shoot for fun...I think if the Pro Ams will be sponsored someday.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

So far quite a few have suggested to cut down the number of places paid. Yeah, read the thing about people wanting more paid in a class, but times change. Think about something. How many people actually go to a national shoot and really have a chance at winning? Or are they going just to be going" Or that to say; "I shot Georgia. I shot the ProAm. I shot the Classic My age, my disabilities, I don't expect to win, but I'll no doubt go to another national event and maybe 2 or 3. Hey, there are some very nice people there, those to meet, talk with and whatever. 

So we need some sponsors, but still, archery events have got to get some spotlight. Ain't nobody watching and would be sponsors won't be....

Perhaps we are going about this all wrong. If on the State Championship level we need to get newspapers, radio or local TV stations on site. Maybe throw in a Shoot off. Top shooters in each divisions going head to head for overall Champion? I don't know. Get the home town behind the local archery club and anything can happen.

How many clubs have asked for local sponsors? Someone mentioned just having regular stores - here, the sponsors would have their name (sign) assigned to a lane or banner hung for everyone to see. Even invite stores to set up a booth. Just rattling off more or less. We need something to draw the outside public.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*Why ?*

I was thinking in all other sports the Pros are visible at some point to the spectators. Is archery ,just the Pros one of the only sports where the spectators and fans
don't ever get to see them perform? Maybe if this was changed sponsors may be more willing to hand over some money. I know when I go to Vegas and when I am not shooting I grab a seat and watch the Pros shoot and love it!! Wouldn't it be nice to have
bleachers and TV screens setup on say the final 10 Targets on a range for spectators to watch and have something to sell TV and big sponsors!! I know I would love to watch
shot for shot on the final 10 targets and have a score board with up to
minute scoring so you could follow your favorite archer!! At some point it has to be tried!! In Vegas there is up to the minute electronic scoring and in today's electronic
world the Pros should have electronic scoring on every target so the spectators know
what's happening!!! I think this would be a great selling point and change the way the public views competitve archery!!!


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

The ASA will never again pay out the money that they did in their early years. Why? Simple. Sponsorships or the lack there of. ASA had Miller Beer, in the early years. Certain influential people whined and cried, and ASA done away with it. One of the current owners, will not allow a beer sponsorship. Unfortunatly, I don't see the ASA acquireing other large sponsors, especially due to the economy, and the anti hunters syndrom.


back to the topic of the thread....no problems paying the 250 entry fee, but I do have a problem with the money not being paid back out....


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## bishjr (Aug 1, 2008)

Themost you would get me to pay would only be $50 and thats even a bit steep in my book. Dont get me wrong I will drop $40 at a shoot on a given day, but that is to shoot a round in each possible class and socialize when finish. Now if there was a cute drink lady walking around the course I might be whiling to pay $50 a round. :wink:


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

No way in the world would I put $250.00 into a pot to shoot for. I'd just be donating my money like 90% of the rest of the folks out there. Fun is fun but $250.00 for a entry fee is a bit too salty for me. I go to tournaments to see and talk to friends and to shoot a enjoyable course. I gave up on the idea of ever bringing home a check a long time ago.

Oh wait a sec, I take that back, I got a $6.00 check many years ago from ASA from shooting the marked yardage. I never even cashed it. I framed it and put it on my wall.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*Your onto something now!*



SonnyThomas said:


> Now you're talking... I like watching also. Still, as big as Vegas is why isn't it on TV? What, for the past 3 years there's been one heck of shoot off. I don't care what organization gets the ball rolling just that ball gets rolling.
> And then, what about End of The Year Shoot Out? Top 3 shooters from the 7 ASA national events vying for X number of dollars. Okay, center stage just for them, the Cream of the Crop. Yeah, still rattling....


maybe the ASA will read this thread and experiment with a new format for spectators next year !! This is what they need for the Pro course :

electronic scoring on each target for up to the minute scoring so it can be seen by a score board for spectators at the shoot and be followed live on the Internet !

Change the format so the final 10 targets are visible to spectators to watch from bleachers or standing ! Have TV cameras on the final 10 targets so it can be watched live on the Internet and projected on large screens at the shoot for
the spectators to see closeups of the targets! 

It would not be hard and it would take it to the next level...

You could add comentary and interviews for a TV show and
build up the shoots with extra coverage on the point chase for
the shooter of the year, travel to the Pros homes and
home range and do a story on each!! Interview up and coming archers in different
classes it could be endless. Once it got started it would
be hard to stop!!!


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## ky hammer (Jan 7, 2003)

well to me we already have that at our tournaments. if you want ot win money put up your 250 or 300 and shoot against guys that are wanting to win that kind of money and think they can. its called the pro class. thats what pros do they play for the money. amature classes are just that. if you want to get paid for shooting and want a check put your money up and get one.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Shades of Jackie Bushman! Yes! Still, the down side. The public just can't seem to separate 3D shooting and animal hunting or maybe it's the TV syndication people. We need Curt Gowdy! Remember The American Sportsman?
??? Colored point zone? Color coded for points. Anything outside of the 8 is not scored, as in nothing associated with wounding. Remember the new ASA DAIR Indoor target, no 5 point zone.

My prior reply ain't here.....


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

$250:mg:

It's already been mentioned but paying out fewer places is the best way to go to raise the payouts. You can't expect to get more participation (which equals higher payouts) by jacking up the prices. I golf on occasion but most of the time I pay $40 to play a local track. I only play TPC Sawgrass once a year because it costs me $250 to play there. If it cost me $250 to shoot I would probably only shoot at the club to practice and one tournament a year.


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