# best production longbow??



## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i am currently researching on what i will get for my second longbow...i recently got a martin ml-9 stick and like it very much but wud like to get a heftier and slightly longer one for my next one...it will be in the 45# range and between 64-66in in length..i am looking at a price range of not more than $350 if possible and and a short delivery time as i wud hv to make shipping arrangements to the philippines...i have extensive recurve experience and am not looking for a longbow with recurve characteristics but rather one with straight or slightly deflexed limbs and traditional grip and can be shot accurately off the shelf with minimal or no stacking and handshock...I realize i am asking for a lot considering my budget but maybe someone out there has found something close to what i want...wud really appreciate any inputs and thank everyone in advance!!


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

bear patriot 



martin makes good ones too..the vision and savannah are about the same...the savannah just resembles more of a longbow than the vision.


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## odin909 (Nov 17, 2004)

*longbow*

Hey

Go with Martin all the way!

You can get the stick for around $200, 

I have one and love it. And you know it is quality by being made by martin.

Check 3 rivers

good luck


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## Abel (Jun 2, 2004)

The Bear Montana is a nice bow. The AIM Viper is also a good buy. Or you could take a look at the prices at Chaparral Archery. Prices start at 375.00 for the basic model. Nice bow. 

I noticed that you are only interested in "production" bows. Why is that?


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

Since John Strunk stopped making laminated bows, my favorite American longbow (generally striaght limbed w/ some relfex) is the Howard Hill. My most recent one is a Wesley Special with Ebony riser and overlays. I opted for the dished handle and had them cut the arrow rest as far to center as they would. It shoots great with virtually no handshock. I prefer such bows in 68" length but that's just a personal thing. The Wesley is the or one of the most expensive of HH's models, mine has a few pricey extras, and was $514 delivered to my door. Once you've shot a Howard Hill for a while, I don't think you'll want to go back to the Martin. This is really an unfair comparison as the HH is more expensive. Just my humble opinion.


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## Xdweller (Nov 25, 2004)

just saw the martin savannah i think it was when i was buying a new compound( sorry guys) i shot longbows a few years ago and i think the savannah is a beautiful bow. coldn't believe how smooth it was for under $500. most are much more for top-of-the-line. the shop told me mr. martin will autograph my bow no charge when i order it, because i need a lefty.


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## Tejas Raz (Jan 24, 2003)

I'm going to toot the horn for my Chaparral Kaibab. Highly Recommend!

It's a semi-custom hybrid longbow with lots of reflex/deflex, light slim limbs, quite fast, draws very smoothly, and little to no hand shock.

It's $375 plus shipping and they have a try-before-you-buy program that can't be beaten! Took me 6 weeks to get mine, built to order. Bruce is also very nice to work with and talk to. We spent two or three hours on the phone different times. The design is by John Fazio but built by Bruce and sold separately from Fazio's line.

Mine's 64", 51#@29". It's faster than the older Sky longbow I used to shoot that was 55#@28 inches. I'm pulling right at 29.5" usually so that would bring it to 60# at my pull. The 10# lighter draw Chaparral is much faster and kinder to shoot. 3 of us ordered at the same time and we're all loving them. One of the guys went back and got one of their new recurves as well.

http://www.ChaparralArchery.com/Kaibab.html


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

thanks to all u guys for ur inputs...now i will have a harder time deciding!...reason for my choosing production bows is i don`t want to wait a long time for the bow and i heard that some of them take as long as a year for delivery..am looking seriously at the martin ml-14 mountaineer which has a 4-6 week delivery time...wud appreciate any inputs from anyone with firsthand experience on this bow...thanks agen to all!


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

by the way what do u guys think about take-down longbows aside from the transport advantages? thanks.


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## Tejas Raz (Jan 24, 2003)

Ahhh, Subic Bay. Been a while since I was there, but what a nice place. Very nice people and sure had a good time. 1979 it was. I was actually at Cubie Point Air Station, but Subic was where we all went. Jeepney's and Palm trees with beautiful sandy beaches... in December! Got a sunburn and then had to jet back to Japan to snow.


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## Shawnee Archer (Mar 18, 2003)

AKRuss said:


> *Since John Strunk stopped making laminated bows, my favorite American longbow (generally striaght limbed w/ some relfex) is the Howard Hill. My most recent one is a Wesley Special with Ebony riser and overlays. I opted for the dished handle and had them cut the arrow rest as far to center as they would. It shoots great with virtually no handshock. I prefer such bows in 68" length but that's just a personal thing. The Wesley is the or one of the most expensive of HH's models, mine has a few pricey extras, and was $514 delivered to my door. Once you've shot a Howard Hill for a while, I don't think you'll want to go back to the Martin. This is really an unfair comparison as the HH is more expensive. Just my humble opinion. *



I agree totaly on this one. I have a Howard Hill Longbow, the Tembo model, they are an excellent Longbow line and shoot very smoothly in the hand compared to a lot of others. You can get one for $300-400.

www.howardhillarchery.com


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

don't get me wrong martin makes excellent longbows...but are spongey in feel throughout the shot and speed wise they're decent but not too above part. The only other thing is there is alot of buzz or "zing" after the shot in the handle....maybe it's just me...it's not alot of shot persay (sp?! do i really care?! ) but, it's enough to get annoying....reminded me of when i stuck my finger on a little handheld bug zapper.  if they just woud come down a little in the price they'd be prolly the best bang for your buck..and they'll even go as far as to let you pick the wood choices and have the handle cut to your specs for a little extra cash...but for what you pay for that...or a little cheaper you could have a really nice bow custom made from the ground up.


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

the hill is the one bow i have yet to shoot that i've always wanted to....


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## Tejas Raz (Jan 24, 2003)

Shawnee Archer said:


> *I agree totaly on this one. I have a Howard Hill Longbow, the Tembo model, they are an excellent Longbow line and shoot very smoothly in the hand compared to a lot of others. You can get one for $300-400.
> 
> www.howardhillarchery.com *


 I came very close to buying this model for my first but the price was a bit too much for "my first bow". Wish (haven't I heard this before?) I'd have ponied up the jingle for it now! Then again, I wouldn't have my Chaparral which I believe is one of the best and most unheard of bows on the market. If another HH Tembo comes up, I won't hesitate to "acquire" one just because!


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## Abel (Jun 2, 2004)

The Martin Stick and Mountaineer are not anywhere close to my top picks for best buy or best shot or anything else. Ok, I'll say it. I think they suck! IMO, they are right up there with the PSE Coyote. There are plenty of custom bows and production longbows that can be had in days.....or at least quicker than 4-6 weeks. Do some research before you decide to rule out custom bowyers. Many bowyers create an inventory and others simply aren't backed up at all. Call up Mahaska, call up Massie. Call up Mike Treadway. Talk to these guys before you settle on a Martin. Most bowyers are simply not backed up more than a couple of months right now. Here's a couple of bowyer link-lists to look over:

http://home.att.net/~sajackson/archery.html

http://www.women-outdoors.com/traditional/bowyers.htm


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

bump for abel's damn fine post!


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## odin909 (Nov 17, 2004)

*Martin*

Hey guys


Dont let him fool you. Martin makes great bows and has for many years longer than any self boyer!!

Take advice from people who know bows, i dont pretend to know bows, but people who do , give martin bows very high ratings.

One example is Doug berkshere, most trad archers know his site and forums. He gives Both martin bows Abdel mentioned hight marks. 

If your looking for a bow , for a reasonable price, which is what i thought you were looking for, then , both martin bows are great choices.

It might just be me, but if your not rich and want quality for your money. You cant go wrong with martin. 

You get a warranty from a standard leading company, that has been making bows before many boyers were born.

Just my opinion, but that guy was way off on saying Martin bows suck!!

Facts, not fiction.


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## Tejas Raz (Jan 24, 2003)

Oops, sorry. Bad link above. Try this:

http://www.chaparralarchery.com/kaibab.html


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

don't sweat the post man...remember these are just opinions...everyonelikes something different...or we'd all be shooting the same stuff.


martin makes good bows...and there are pros and cons to every bow...but...


shoot one if you can..or at least pay a little attention to what we're saying...some of us have spent alot of money in bows..and finding the right one. use what ya can from these...why they're here...


we're not gonna start a war in here like in the compound forums...this one is better than that...it's just opinions...


and doublelung owns all SUCKUHS!!!


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## Tejas Raz (Jan 24, 2003)

Anything but a Mathews eh Ryan?!!!!

     

We can say that now that they make a longbow!

Yea, let's bash Mathews in this forum too. hehehe.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Just depends on what you are looking for in a longbow--there are gobs of different designs, from straight limb and grip to radical hybrids with recurve grips. Martin has both--the Twig and Stick are the most basic of designs, then you have the Vision that is (to me) like shooting a recurve.

You can find big names pushing most any bow--it doesn't mean one is better than the other. Some may like that bow better, some could probably shoot any bow and just go with the one that offers them a better deal. I've talked with Byron Ferguson, Ricky Welch, Bob Wesley, Gary Sentman, and several other excellent archers and hunters and guess what--none of them shoot the same bow, and seldom will you find two "big name" archers that shoot the same style bow. That tells us that there is no one bow that is perfect for everyone, and that in the right hands any good bow can be shot well. Go to some big shoots in different places and notice what the top shooters are using--usually you will see several different bows.

In my opinion (take it for what it's worth) Martin makes some of the best production bows on the market. However, the ones I consider their better bows rival a lot of custom bows in price. 

I don't like the Stick. I don't like that style bow regardless who makes it--I've shot several different brands that are that style, including a Chek-Mate Golden Hawk, one a good friend of mine built, one that STARTS at $800 (or used to--it may be more now), and even Bob Wesley's own personal Wesley Special. I've shot Hill's (Jerry and Howard) and Sentman's and others I can't even recall the name of right now, and at least one that isn't being built anymore. There are some differences in one to the other, but a lot of similarities also--generally speaking that design (straight or mildly reflexed limbs) are smooth, quiet, slow, and shocky. Some have less than others, some may be shooting 1,000 grain arrows, some people just seem to have no sensitivity to handshock. 

I've seen it posted and heard it said "I've never noticed any handshock in my bow", knowing full well that the same bow, to me, rattled my teeth. All I can say is a 65# bow is a light-weight to some people too, and to others 45# is heavy--depends on your perspective and what you get used to I reckon.

Martin has been in business for a long time, and I have a lot of respect for the company for sticking with their traditional line when most others, especially big companies, went full-bore compound when they took off. However, that doesn't mean they are the best bow for everyone, or even make the best bow. 

Many custom bowyers have put in their time working under other bowyers, and some have made a lot more bows than the current guys at Martin. I know one bowyer who has made approximately 12,000 bows to date--not assembly line or production line bows, and not bows that were cut out with a CNC, or where he just did one particular step, but bows he's has his hands on pretty much from start to finish. He didn't grind the lams on every one himself, or apply the finish to every one, but the actuall process of turning wood/fiberglass/phenolic/whatever into a bow, the part that really counts, was done by him. Even with that kind of experience, I wouldn't say the bows he makes are the best for everyone--they aren't.

One person might say Brand A bows are the best there are, and Brand B stinks. The next person might say just the opposite, and both be telling the truth based on the way the bow shoots for THEM. Don't' get all up in the air over opinions--that's all they are. I know mine aren't always popular, they won't apply to everyone, but they will be honest based on MY experiences.

I'll wind it up with one last thought--bow's that cost the most or advertise the most or get the most attention on a message board are not automatically the best for everyone. Of course they ads are going to state that that brand is the best, have big names vouching for them, etc.--that's what ads are all about. Get out, shoot as many as you can, keep an open mind about it, and make your own decision. Just because someone has killed a record book critter, can shoot an asprin out of the air, or has won a won a World Championship doesn't mean that is the best bow for you. Your shooting buddies can't pick the best for you either. When you get your choices narrowed down, I suggest checking out the bowyer's or company's history, warranty, customer service record, etc. and go from there.

Just my .02.

Chad


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## Abel (Jun 2, 2004)

Yeah, different strokes for different folks. But you must be able to look at overall quality here. The Chapparal is only 375!!!! You can probably get it in less time than you could the Martin.


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

this sucks...now i want a few other bows!  i have a lifetime to collect toys..it'll wait. next bow purchase is going to be a pse king fisher for my bowfishing trip down to south texas.


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## silverhare (May 27, 2004)

I also own a Chapparal and love it. However JMVARGAS said he wanted a straight or slightly deflexed LB. The "Chap" is a highly r/d bow so it does not meet his requirements.
I have shot the Martin Stick but it does not appeal to me which is not a surprise as I like r/d bows. However the Stick is made well and I believe is a good bow for the price.


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

k now i hafta shoot a chap!


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

> Anything but a Mathews eh Ryan?!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



man no doubt....i saw what they were asking for for their bows and they're high on themselves already! even if it's the old sky equipment..i don't care who you are and what ever the hell you make...that's obscene. 

if you cna't find an excellent bow for under 500 then you probably don't know what you want...or like having a highclass price tag like the widow...money doesn't mean shootability!


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## Tejas Raz (Jan 24, 2003)

p8ntballnryan said:


> *man no doubt....i saw what they were asking for for their bows and they're high on themselves already! even if it's the old sky equipment..i don't care who you are and what ever the hell you make...that's obscene.
> 
> if you cna't find an excellent bow for under 500 then you probably don't know what you want...or like having a highclass price tag like the widow...money doesn't mean shootability! *


 Ahhhh Yea! So you get a nice presentation box. Great if that sort of thing tweeks ya, but $800+?

From what I've seen in pictures, it's the same as the Sky Trophy that I had. Nice bow, but there are many others better and for a lot less cash! I'm stll glad that he brought them out and hope that he puts some of his engineering thinking into the next ones.


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## p8ntballnryan (Apr 5, 2003)

GO FREAKIN CHECK YOUR PM'S AND EMAIL!!! LET ME KNOW! lol....going out of town sunday...wanted to see if you wanna go to the club and fart around fora few hours today.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

wow..i didn`t expect so many responses and reactions...thanks a lot guys..am trying to absorb all ur comments and think i have enough now to make a decision...thanks agen to all!


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## 45-70cannon (Feb 10, 2004)

H. Hill is turning new bows out in three to five weeks right now. My hunting buddy ordered his in the middle of last month and received it three days before Turkey day.
That's standard time for Hill bows.
Call Craig Eiken and ask him how long it will take to make you the bow of your dreams. You will not be sorry you spent the $$.

I know, I have four of them. One Tembo, One Owl with Wesly extras such as ivory tips, silver inlays and such, and two Redman bows. Love them all, I do, I do.
My hunting partner just got his Redman and boy does it shoot. The bow is light and real quick, it is a Redman, made of yew. I have one too. Mine are three lams of yew. His new one is made of four lams of yew and it is lighter and faster than mine!

Got me thinking about buying another!

45-70


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## dwalk (Dec 2, 2004)

*best "production" long bow?*

geeeeeee ... i'd have to say bear montana ...


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## Abel (Jun 2, 2004)

You dang right you'd have to say the Montana. Anybody who's had both the Stick and the Montana in their hands would know which one is a better bow. No brainer.


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## Bonefish (Jan 6, 2005)

If your willing to put another $25.00 you can get one hell of a good custom R/D longbow from WinterHawk Archery. I got one from him and it's a beauty. Take a look at his wed site.


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