# ? for all you up shooters



## PSE Kid (Nov 22, 2008)

I dont always shoot up, i did a couple of times in indoor 3d, but i do better when i dont count my score, when i say to myself, i need a 11 here or whatever, or lets say i am 4 down, and aiming at a small target, i had this happen this yr, my pin was flotating around and it went into the 8 ring and i got so nervous that i punched and made a bad shot. I do better if i dont try to keep score, make each shot and go on, try to make the best shot you can on every target.


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## ky hammer (Jan 7, 2003)

2 things will probably help more than anything. first get out and practice judging yardage. it is best if you can go to places that have targets but just judging trees bushes and the ground will help. secondly practice your shooting. more points are given up by most people by missing what they are shooting at than any single thing. a lot of people subscribe to the better shooting by aggressive spending theory but that just doesnt work. get a good set up that you have confidence in and just keep shooting it untill you know you are going to hit what you are shooting at. the yardage practice will give you the confidence you need to hit it as well. when you are not sure how far a target is it usualy creeps in your shot and 2 wrongs make for a big mistake.


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## Godsbowhunter (May 28, 2009)

Practice judging yardage of what ever you see. practice the way your going to play, find a shooting style that works for you and stick to it. and the most important thing to remember when shooting 3D is to meet new people and have fun with it.


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## jg-xring (Aug 26, 2006)

Nothing will ever help your scores more then learning to shoot using backtension!! Not just a "backtension" release aid but correct backtension with what ever style release you choose to learn. Good luck and most of all have fun..


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

Yardage is the most important thing by far. If you want to compete at the highest level, you should work on yardage judging more than you shoot. On the shooting side of it, I really started to improve when I started shooting with back tension. I learned with a hinge and then started using a thumb button with back tension. I still practice with my hinge quite a bit if I am having trouble anticipating the shot. Once you learn to execute a shot with back tension, and can shoot good groups out to50 yards, you should work on judging yardage more than anything.

I started practicing judging by walking through the woods and ranging trees, stumps, etc. Now I practice judging targets mostly. I have access to the McKenzie targets that we shoot at ASA pro-ams and I'm starting to learn how to judge them just by body size. It is making a huge difference.


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## nickel shooter5 (Dec 26, 2009)

All that has been said is true. Kinda ..... you can judge yardage great and shoot back tension and whatever, but without confidence and trust in you it's all not going to come together. Practice hitting whatever your aiming at build confidence in You and your equipment.


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## Droptine (Feb 10, 2003)

Id say a good sight that you can get second and third axis set up. I also break a range down into 10 target ranges. I always try and shoot half 11's and only one 8 per 10 targets. If you have a bad 10 then forget about it and start the next ten fresh.


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## blackice89 (Dec 18, 2009)

nickel shooter5 said:


> All that has been said is true. Kinda ..... you can judge yardage great and shoot back tension and whatever, but without confidence and trust in you it's all not going to come together. Practice hitting whatever your aiming at build confidence in You and your equipment.


Good call nickel shooter5.......That is great advice and the only other thing I can think of is the use of a consistent anchor point because if it ain't the same every time the shot ain't gonna be right every time!:amen:


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## Wes_C7 (Feb 24, 2010)

nickel shooter5 said:


> All that has been said is true. Kinda ..... you can judge yardage great and shoot back tension and whatever, but without confidence and trust in you it's all not going to come together. Practice hitting whatever your aiming at build confidence in You and your equipment.


This exactly. You have to be mentally tough to be a successful archer. The best thing to do is get into a rhythm or pattern when you step up to that stake. Have the same routine every time. The less that you have to think about the better you will shoot.


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## IsHeBreathing? (Feb 11, 2011)

Shoot a bunch, preferably with a lot of people and noise around. Our club gets loud with 27 peopleshooting at 1 time at the indoor. Doesnt bother me to much but my Dad shoots lower than his ability when its happening. I keep trying to get him to come to the target range when its busy to get over it...

That and yardage. Speed helpsmake up some wrong estimates, but its easier to quit making estimates and know the yardage.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

*mental training*

Buy a good mental training book and then do what it says. It will be the best $15 you ever spend if you follow the advice in the book. There are a bunch out there, and most of them likely work if you let it. What it will do is motivate you to spend the extra time doing those other things people mentioned.


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## Osage (Jan 19, 2003)

Depends which notch you are trying to move up. So:

- at the outset getting you #&$& together, decent bow, arrows, tuning, just getting yourself properly squared away. Knowing how archery gear works, and possibly learning to fix the problems. One good thing here is you can do this without having a place to shoot, and not everyone does. And yes, money talks at this stage. You don't have to spend it all, but it won't hurt anything at this stage.

- Next thing is to learn to shoot. This is a bit of a roundabout thing. There are lots of books and videos that will get you what you need to know. Coaching would be nice, but it is also risky, good coaching is tough. Once you get past the basics, and there is enough there to keep you interested for a while, the next thing is to evolve a process where you can get off the shot. The problem here is that there are 3 simultaneous things you have to do once you are committed to the shot: Maintain pulling through the shot, aiming, and releasing. This is why back tension/releases is so important, because the process of pulling through the shot and releasing are combined. Shooters report different focus as their single thought. My preference is to concentrate on form and pulling, and let the release and aiming take care of themselves, but there are different thoughts on the mater.

Somewhere in the middle of that paragraph, most shooters hit a wall, that they deny. They just aren't strong enough. This is a fact, and this is why one hears about being overbowed. People think they are in control, and they aren't. Even with lightish draw weights, and 80% let-off. Sounds impossible but it is a fact, and it takes some pretty clever stuff to get people to see it. If you have been shooting for a while, have basically good form, tech knowledge, all around expert, but your results don't show it, you are more than likely overbowed/under strength, about 95% of you. Overbowedness has nothing to do with how hard you think it is to pull your bow back. It is when your shot execution routine takes longer to complete at full draw than you durability at full draw. 

Just some thoughts for folks on the lower rungs.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

Incredible information here. Please keep them coming.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

First, once you guess the yardage, that is what it is! Don't dwell on it, it will only interfere with the shot execution. Second, learn to let the pin float. Don't worry about the pin moving, it is always coming back across the middle. Last, whether you think you can or think you can't, you are probably right. You have to believe in yourself!


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## onebadmutt (Feb 12, 2007)

Knowing the scoring ring placement on your targets. Also good glass for picking out those rings. I dont have a full range in my yard, so I study the targets to know where I need to park the arrow.


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

just shoot!!!!


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## td051 (Jan 14, 2007)

Have confidence in yourself and your equipment. Then practice, practice and more practice.


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## JonMount (Jan 21, 2011)

I would have to put my vote on "Consistent form". Especially if your dropping points by having "punched" shots. Pratice enough that you are confident in your form and equipment. Once you have settled on your yardage don't second guess it at full draw. That will only lead to target panic. Personally, I would rather be a little high or low because I was off a yard or 2 than have a poor shot landing left or right and be wondering what happened.


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## Turkeyflacx2 (Mar 21, 2009)

I had a guy at the Vegas shoot watch me flinging arrows without really taking time to really aim.I mean really aim. I was driveby shooting. I was very nervous as it was my first time shooting a venue like Vegas so to say I was a bit frazzled was an understatement. All he said was slow down and shoot every arrow like its the one you need to win the whole tourneyment. It worked wonders for me. I didnt win obviously but it helped me hold on target. I cant wait till next year.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

shootist said:


> Buy a good mental training book and then do what it says. It will be the best $15 you ever spend if you follow the advice in the book. There are a bunch out there, and most of them likely work if you let it. What it will do is motivate you to spend the extra time doing those other things people mentioned.


Any recommendations ?


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Turkeyflacx2 said:


> I had a guy at the Vegas shoot watch me flinging arrows without really taking time to really aim.I mean really aim. I was driveby shooting. I was very nervous as it was my first time shooting a venue like Vegas so to say I was a bit frazzled was an understatement. All he said was slow down and shoot every arrow like its the one you need to win the whole tourneyment. It worked wonders for me. I didnt win obviously but it helped me hold on target. I cant wait till next year.


Your signature line is supposed to say "Marines dont have that problem"....The U.S. Marine Corps is known as the Presidents Own, becuase they can be sent anywhere, at any time, without an Act of Congress...I served under Ronald Reagan, and He was my Boss...He was good to the Marine Corps, and had a special place in His heart for Us.....Nothing personal, just wanted to point that out....Semper Fi!.............Jim


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Course management. Know your limits. I shoot for connector on hjust about ever target. Longer shots I shoot center ten.

If you want to shoot up you got to elimanate 8" and five scores. Sometimes it not about how many 12 you shoot but how many eight scores you dont shoot.

Judging is the key.
DB


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## pacnate (Sep 23, 2009)

Keep it coming. I'm benefiting from this too!!! LOL


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## Johnny Wade (Feb 28, 2011)

I agree with mental aspect. Alot for people practice there shooting and judging yardage and do both well. I have seen so many times on the range someone make a bad shot and then it seems they fall apart (including myself). I watched this happen to my daughter yesterday. She just wouldn't forget about that miss and the rest of her round showed. it. You must have confidence in yourself and believe you can make the shot. Forget about the shots that are behind you and think about the shot you are on. Obviously you have to be able to judge yardage and hit what your shooting at, but once you are doing that well work on the mental aspect of the game taking each shot as they come one at a time and forget about the ones behind you.


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## 3D_shooter84 (Feb 17, 2009)

Daniel Boone said:


> Sometimes it not about how many 12 you shoot but how many eight scores you dont shoot.
> 
> Judging is the key.
> DB



I like that! Dont worry about twelves, worry about not shooting an eight! Thank you DB, of all the things I have tried this is one that is a new concept to me. Why didn't I have this the past two years...
Not sacasm either! Honesty:darkbeer:


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## Hittingguru (Oct 1, 2004)

Focus on what you CAN control- not what you cannot!. Once you step to the stake, you can control everything except what the target is and how far. Once your shot has gone off, everything else that happens from there to the next stake is beyond your control. With that said, you control your shot sequence, your judgment of yardage, your delivery, followthrough, aiming, etc. After you release, it's over- the arrow is gone and it is what it is. Go to the next shot.


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## Fishkeeper (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks for all the great ideas guys ! I'm really learning some helpful things here. :archer:


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## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

If you want to get better you also have to shoot with people who are better than you. If you are shooting with a group of guys that you are consistantly beating you will find no reason to work harder. Start getting your butt kicked everytime out and you will find the desire to improve.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3D_shooter84 said:


> I like that! Dont worry about twelves, worry about not shooting an eight! Thank you DB, of all the things I have tried this is one that is a new concept to me. Why didn't I have this the past two years...
> Not sacasm either! Honesty:darkbeer:


Lanny Bassham teachs in his mental management to always think ten ring before drawing the bow. Dont be thinking negative about any shot, if your worried about fives or eights your going to get what your thinking. Bad shot should not be in your thinking process. Archery about positive thinking. Confidence and practice builds the subconsious mind to think positive.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

jre4192 said:


> If you want to get better you also have to shoot with people who are better than you. If you are shooting with a group of guys that you are consistantly beating you will find no reason to work harder. Start getting your butt kicked everytime out and you will find the desire to improve.


Agree 100%. I always shoot and try to shoot with good archers. You not only get good advice but positive reenforcement.
DB


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## DocMort (Sep 24, 2009)

Best piece of advice I give is, 

Don't dwell on your last target make it a 1 target shoot 20-30-40 times over don't over think. 

DB and JRE right above me I agree with them..


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## PETeach (Nov 17, 2007)

There are 3 things to practice that will definitely increase your score: 1st is Yardage, 2nd more Yardage practice and third is practice Yardage again. There are a lot of shooters that can shoot as good if not better than the top 3D shooters. What seperates them in scores is their ability to judge yardage. The shooters at the top are always at the top because they are good at this and they continue to practice it. The answer is not in your equipment but if you had to choose 1 thing that would make you a better 3D shooter this is it hands down! Making a committment to practice yardage is boring but it has helped me tremendously and your confidence goes up and your scores will soar! Ask any top pro 3D shooter how much they practice shooting vs practicing yardage and you will be shocked that they practice judging more than shooting!


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## hophunt (Aug 21, 2007)

Take all of the information here, try it all, keep what works for you, and shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. As DB has said, don't worry about bonus rings until you have nearly eliminated all of the 8 shots. Until you can consistently stay within the 10 ring you can't consistently hit 11s/12s. Once you have significantly reduced the 8s then start to work on the bonus rings. Understand though, you will have times when shooting at a 12 you will drop a little low or rise a little high. keep track of those shots as good or bad shots and check your yardage. You must address the root cause of problems, so be painfully honest with yourself regarding your shot form/process. The same when scoring... if in doubt, call it out. This will force you to make better shots in the future to pick up the points.


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## CarbonExtreme (Jul 7, 2010)

One piece of advice I could give... ask yourself how good you truly want to be then ask yourself, am I willing to work for it?

You have to be honest with yourself...Champions come from inside. You must have true passion and desire. The rest will follow...


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## 3D_shooter84 (Feb 17, 2009)

CarbonExtreme said:


> One piece of advice I could give... ask yourself how good you truly want to be then ask yourself, am I willing to work for it?
> 
> You have to be honest with yourself...Champions come from inside. You must have true passion and desire. The rest will follow...


I like the way you think.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

How about some aiming tips ? How do you aim ? Lets say you can't see the 10 ring because the sun is shining bright, the IBO is straight up the back of the front leg and about 4" higher than the elbow what do you do ? you can't really see anything.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

Very few people hold the pin dead steady all the time. Remember to focus hard on the spot you want to hit, don't sweat the jiggle dance of the pin as your hand eye coridination will always keep moving the pin back to the center. Lazer focus brings it that much closer all the time.... So let your pin fuzz a bit in your second site and try and see that speck of dust in the 11 ring and hit it.

Lanny Bassham's book is a good one!


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## DocMort (Sep 24, 2009)

rigginuts said:


> How about some aiming tips ? How do you aim ? Lets say you can't see the 10 ring because the sun is shining bright, the IBO is straight up the back of the front leg and about 4" higher than the elbow what do you do ? you can't really see anything.


I know where the ten is on most targets and that is what I do if I cant find another point to aim. I am not an awesome shooter but can shoot decent. If your confident you make better shots so just be confident and don't let the little things rattle you


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

rigginuts said:


> How about some aiming tips ? How do you aim ? Lets say you can't see the 10 ring because the sun is shining bright, the IBO is straight up the back of the front leg and about 4" higher than the elbow what do you do ? you can't really see anything.


You will learn where to aim. Generally it is just behind the shoulder and up a couple inches. That is why a good set of binos are important. So you can look and pick out the spot. If you do not have binos or just can not see where to shoot it, generally if you follow the back of the front leg up to mid body and move toward the back end 2-3 inches, you will always be in the 10. Naturally does not count on targets like the turkey and so on.

As for actually aiming, a lot of people like to look at the spot they want to hit. The mind likes to have things centered so the pin/dot will normally find it's way to what you are looking at. Just focus where you want to hit. Kinda like driving a car.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

rigginuts said:


> How about some aiming tips ? How do you aim ? Lets say you can't see the 10 ring because the sun is shining bright, the IBO is straight up the back of the front leg and about 4" higher than the elbow what do you do ? you can't really see anything.


Seeing the same target over and over teachs you where to aim. Very inportant that you get to know the targets.
DB


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## mocheese (Dec 19, 2003)

Shooting with confidence. In your shot and your yardage. My biggest mistakes come when I start doubting my yardage.


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## slamdam (Oct 10, 2006)

mocheese said:


> Shooting with confidence. In your shot and your yardage. My biggest mistakes come when I start doubting my yardage.


BINGO.. I am bad at doing that


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

Anybody have any thoughts about 3D bows or target bows vs hunting bows ? I see a lot of people shooting "hunting" bows for target shooting. Are target bows that much better or forgiving ? How about brace height ? 6" vs 7" or 8". I mean can you pick up 10 pts. or more by just shooting a real target bow ?


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

asa1485 said:


> You will learn where to aim. Generally it is just behind the shoulder and up a couple inches. That is why a good set of binos are important. So you can look and pick out the spot. If you do not have binos or just can not see where to shoot it, generally if you follow the back of the front leg up to mid body and move toward the back end 2-3 inches, you will always be in the 10. Naturally does not count on targets like the turkey and so on.
> 
> As for actually aiming, a lot of people like to look at the spot they want to hit. The mind likes to have things centered so the pin/dot will normally find it's way to what you are looking at. Just focus where you want to hit. Kinda like driving a car.


I'm thinking of going to 12 x 40 for my binos and maybe 6x for scope just for this reason. I wonder what's the % of people using higher power binos and scopes.


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Be confident in your yardage....


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

Confidence, yardage, back tension
Keep a clear head, you can’t be on the line thinking about what someone else is doing or what is for dinner or what the next target is or what you shot on the last target. Each target is a new game.


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## Travis Shaw (Feb 28, 2011)

That is probaly the best advice u good give very good!


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## happyhunter62 (Dec 31, 2010)

rigginuts said:


> If you could give just one piece of advice to help a person move up a notch what would it be ?
> 
> *Anything you can think of -* aiming tips, releases, bows, stabs, anchor points, arrows, equipment, form, shoes, practice habits, exercise etc...


the two most important things i know of is form and yardage judging


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

> Confidence, yardage, back tension
> Keep a clear head, you can’t be on the line thinking about what someone else is doing or what is for dinner or what the next target is or what you shot on the last target. Each target is a new game.


This is the key to success!


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## ericfloyd (Sep 25, 2008)

im not claiming to be a pro by no means but i normally shoot anywhere from even to 12 up. with that being said it took me 3 years of shooting before i ever broke even. after i did it once it was kinda expected. and then you become a little more confident in yourself and it seems to come a little easier than it did before, but thats just me. main thing is practice judging and when you judge a target tell yourself you know the yardage is right and shoot the shot. dont worry about if its right or not after you made up your mind, thats my #1 tip.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Don't shoot 5's. lain:


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

rigginuts said:


> I'm thinking of going to 12 x 40 for my binos and maybe 6x for scope just for this reason. I wonder what's the % of people using higher power binos and scopes.


Pretty good choice. I use 10X42 binos and a 4X scope. The 6X will magnify movement a lot more. Also with the 6X, you will lose more light in the woods. In the light you will be fine but in the woods, a little on the dark side.


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