# Back into target shooting after many years off



## hdroadglide (Jan 1, 2015)

Wow - technology (and OMG costs) have changed in 15+ years. I have some questions. My pro shop does a great job and answers all of my questions but I think sometimes they get sick of that (and so will you guys eventually). I am a "I need to know why" kind of person. Accepting something just because that is the way that it is suppose to work has never been something that I found satisfied my need to know mentality. So here are just a few questions that I have.

1. CBE talks about racking and rattling on their sites (actually their sites prevent this). What is this?
2. Peep alignment - not so much as position of the peep but is there a way to know when your peep is viewing your pin in perfect center? I am finding a minimal difference where I view the pin through the peep can be a difference in score of a 10 or a 6.
3. Pin float - I am working on more stability (in 2 weeks I have shot over 2000 arrows and my stability is getting better). However, I am 55 and realize that there is going to be float no matter what I do. Is there a good pin size to help offset this? Are lenses a good help to this issue?

Thank you all for not judging me LOL....


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

hdroadglide said:


> Wow - technology (and OMG costs) have changed in 15+ years. I have some questions. My pro shop does a great job and answers all of my questions but I think sometimes they get sick of that (and so will you guys eventually). I am a "I need to know why" kind of person. Accepting something just because that is the way that it is suppose to work has never been something that I found satisfied my need to know mentality. So here are just a few questions that I have.
> 
> 1. CBE talks about racking and rattling on their sites (actually their sites prevent this). What is this?
> I don't know. Never used a CBE. I've heard they are decent. My site doesn't have any issues like those.
> ...


It takes thousands of arrows down range to get comfortable when you're just getting started. Just remember there are no quick fixes, or easy ways to jump ahead in the game. You have to put the time in behind the string. With a few pointers you can improve your practice results, but it still takes time and persistence.


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

Personal opinion . Scope housing should match the peep nearly exactly maybe ha halo of light around the housing to allow your eye to keep it centered automatically.. Most of the top of the line sights will work well. Tightness to the system and the play is crucial. I personally find the tightest ones I can find and stick with them. They are expensive but several thousandths of rattle will not only drive you nuts but impact your ability to core the x


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## hdroadglide (Jan 1, 2015)

Sasquech said:


> Personal opinion . Scope housing should match the peep nearly exactly maybe ha halo of light around the housing to allow your eye to keep it centered automatically.. Most of the top of the line sights will work well. Tightness to the system and the play is crucial. I personally find the tightest ones I can find and stick with them. They are expensive but several thousandths of rattle will not only drive you nuts but impact your ability to core the x


I am using a Viper scope now but picked up an unvented CBE scope. Both single pin .019. It seems that most like the CBE better - at this point I am testing what I like best. Any thoughts on the comparison of the Viper vs. unvented CBE? thanks


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

hdroadglide said:


> I am using a Viper scope now but picked up an unvented CBE scope. Both single pin .019. It seems that most like the CBE better - at this point I am testing what I like best. Any thoughts on the comparison of the Viper vs. unvented CBE? thanks


Everyone (virtually) makes good gear.
The brand is much less important than how you use it.
I would suggest posting in "the official gear thread" for advice on specific brands.


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## hdroadglide (Jan 1, 2015)

Mahly said:


> Everyone (virtually) makes good gear.
> The brand is much less important than how you use it.
> I would suggest posting in "the official gear thread" for advice on specific brands.


This thread was a continuation of the "getting back into it" post. I am looking for assistance on my start up process.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

hdroadglide said:


> Wow - technology (and OMG costs) have changed in 15+ years. I have some questions. My pro shop does a great job and answers all of my questions but I think sometimes they get sick of that (and so will you guys eventually). I am a "I need to know why" kind of person. Accepting something just because that is the way that it is suppose to work has never been something that I found satisfied my need to know mentality. So here are just a few questions that I have.


I'm also a retread with compound and I had the same reaction. What happened to all the wheel bows and overdraws? And nobody shoots fingers anymore, what happened? LOL....


> 1. CBE talks about racking and rattling on their sites (actually their sites prevent this). What is this?


This may be harkening back to the old days of Check-Its and so on that always rattled and moved around on the shot. Just a guess. But those days are long gone with the stuff at the top of the market now (Sur-Loc, Shibuya, Axcel, CBE and others).


> 2. Peep alignment - not so much as position of the peep but is there a way to know when your peep is viewing your pin in perfect center? I am finding a minimal difference where I view the pin through the peep can be a difference in score of a 10 or a 6.


We usually use scopes or apertures with large housings nowadays and not just a pin. As brunson said, aligning the housing with the peep opening is one way to make sure it's centered.


> 3. Pin float - I am working on more stability (in 2 weeks I have shot over 2000 arrows and my stability is getting better). However, I am 55 and realize that there is going to be float no matter what I do. Is there a good pin size to help offset this? Are lenses a good help to this issue?


I'm 52 and what helps me with remaining steady, YMMV of course:
- don't shoot shoulder crushing poundage.
- keep the mass weight of the bow as low as possible
- don't use a high magnification lens. I use a 3x with my PSE and that's a good balance for me.
- don't hold forever and ever. Come back to anchor and get on with it.



> Thank you all for not judging me LOL....


It's amazing what's happened in compound the last 15 to 20 years, especially with the bows. A lot of what we learned before isn't totally applicable anymore, so lots of fun stuff to relearn....

LS


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

hdroadglide said:


> 1. CBE talks about racking and rattling on their sites (actually their sites prevent this). What is this?
> 2. Peep alignment - not so much as position of the peep but is there a way to know when your peep is viewing your pin in perfect center? I am finding a minimal difference where I view the pin through the peep can be a difference in score of a 10 or a 6.
> 3. Pin float - I am working on more stability (in 2 weeks I have shot over 2000 arrows and my stability is getting better). However, I am 55 and realize that there is going to be float no matter what I do. Is there a good pin size to help offset this? Are lenses a good help to this issue?


1 - Don't know what racking is, but then I don't use a CBE. Rattle is noise....If it bothers the guy next to me I hope it rattles more  My old Sure Loc Supreme made noise, but was dead solid accurate. Sold it last summer and the person using it likes it...

2 - Peep alignment...A good match up with front sight and peep. Head tilt? Reality of location, you have to look for alignment. What this amounts to is shooting and then wanting perfect. There's a difference. So find perfect, make it perfect and look for perfect until it's there without thinking.

3 - Pin float...Much contributes to pin float. Back to being a newbie and more than a couple weeks may be needed to get the rust off. Rushing, not letting the pin settle. Over bowed. Draw length.
??? What sight are you using? You asked of lens. Either way a nice sized pin helps. I've used a .029" pin quite successfully with a fixed sight and movable sight frame. A 4X lens is good for many people and rarely a Clarifier is required, but normally a moveable sight frame is used. For movable sight frames I use the 9" extension bar. I can move the sight in or out to get the best clarity for my older eyes.


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## hdroadglide (Jan 1, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> 1 - Don't know what racking is, but then I don't use a CBE. Rattle is noise....If it bothers the guy next to me I hope it rattles more  My old Sure Loc Supreme made noise, but was dead solid accurate. Sold it last summer and the person using it likes it...
> 
> 2 - Peep alignment...A good match up with front sight and peep. Head tilt? Reality of location, you have to look for alignment. What this amounts to is shooting and then wanting perfect. There's a difference. So find perfect, make it perfect and look for perfect until it's there without thinking.
> 
> ...


I am using a CBE sight with a Viper Scope - 0.019 - but I am liking your .029 idea - I am getting less and less float but if my memory serves me (and it sometimes does not server me well at all) I had this issue when I was shooting target throughout college. But them again I was using a Bear Kodiak at 60# retro fitted for target. I did do something cool today (yea I know everyone does it) but at 20 yards I split my Carbon Express Preditor on the 10 spot... I was pumped and it made for a good end of the day throw.

Yes my ego requires me to put up a picture.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

One thing that's tough is settling down after coming back. Some of that "rust" is hard to polish out  I've been down and out for periods of 3 to 6 months. Once right at 6 months and getting my bow hand back in shape from being rebuilt. Another was getting the horsepower back from a back injury and ruptured disc. I could shoot, but couldn't walk a full 3D course for a couple months after they got my back working.

Maybe; Come to full draw, but not hard, relax. Try having the pin a bit high and let it come down sort of on it's own...Let it settle, don't do the drive-by shooting thing. Some get on target, settled in and give that tiny bit of draw that will hold the pin that extra bit.

Those Robin Hoods sure feel good, but then your billfold gets to hurting


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## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

hdroadglide said:


> This thread was a continuation of the "getting back into it" post. I am looking for assistance on my start up process.


So you tell the forum moderator to take a hike when he suggests your posting might be more appropriate in the official gear thread for advice on specific brands?

I had to go look again, and yup, this is the INTERMEDIATE TO ADVANCED COMPETITION FORUM.

Why are you bringing your start up drivel in here? It doesn't have anything to do with higher levels of competition, nor does it bring anything to the forum.

Take your attitude somewhere else. Maybe you could apologize over to the pro shop where you said they were tired of you and they might help you again.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

NOTE: the suggestion for posting in "the official gear thread" was for the gear related parts of the thread.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Welcome back. I took off 8 years myself with daughter being in high school sports now she is hooked on this sport and works in the industry. Cbe makes top quality stuff very solid. As far as peep height what I do is when I blind bale is close my eyes anchor then open and see if my peep lines up with my scope housing wo out adjusting my head when I open my eyes. I do this daily when I shoot to make sure im not floating my anchor. Meaning moving it around. Movement is something you have to accept. Execute your shot and don't worry about movement, it will get better as you get in shape. Good luck


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## hdroadglide (Jan 1, 2015)

Mahly said:


> NOTE: the suggestion for posting in "the official gear thread" was for the gear related parts of the thread.


sorry - I misunderstood your suggestion. Thanks-I will get this site figured out (or is that sight? LOL)..


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## Michigan Dave (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm just getting back into competitive target shooting after 21 years away; I am now 58 years old. Here are some random thoughts pertaining to your questions:

- equipment has changed a great deal. Stock bows, even non-target bows, can shoot as well or better than seriously-tuned target bows of 20 yeas ago.

- important bow accessories (ie, stabilizers, rests, sights, especially releases) are much better and average archers understand these much better than we did 20 years ago. New terms like "third axis," "side or back bars," or back tension are commonly used today. My old pin release is now a command release. Listen to the lexicon to pick up the new vocabulary.

- arrow technology has changed in 20 years, though not drastically. Some serious target shooters shoot telephone pole arrows (really, really wide diameter) arrows to scarf up a couple of extra points from targets.

- target matches now include 420, 450, and 600 rounds. I recall only 300 rounds way back when (I may have lived a sheltered life).

- area tournaments are still in vogue, though many of the ranges from years ago have closed and others have opened. Be prepared to meet some new locales and some new, great archery friends.

- target archery is still hot for kids. Great !! Keep then engaged.

- not as many finger shooters as I recall from 20 years ago. Releases seem to be the rage. What finger shooters there still are tend to be very good.

- the old experienced hands are still there, but older and more experienced. They still know what they are talking about.

- the music played in the ranges is newer (go figure !!)

- pin float is a major topic of discussion today. Learn about bone-on-bone contact in your bow arm to stabilize your pin. Forget about getting your pin to stay stock still. It didn't happen years ago, and it doesn't happen now. Today, folks talk about managing the float for improved accuracy.

- higher magnification scopes, like 6x and 8x, are widely used now. Way back, 2x and 4x were common, with the higher magnifications requiring serious clarifier technology. I'd have to say that scope technology has risen in the interim years, and prices are not really outrageous.

- I moved up in bow technology to support my target shooting. My 13 year old PSE Mach 9 is a fine bow, but it requires that I shoot against the back wall of the draw curve if I want to shoot proper back tension. Folks like Larry Wise teach not to shoot off of the back wall (errors in arrow velocity, and point of impact, likely to result). I just bought a 2013 PSE Supra because, in part, I can shoot against draw stops and it is eminently tunable. It's also a darn good target bow. Used bow prices are reasonable, and it is a quick way to jump into seriously good target bow technology.

- pricing of bows and components is higher today, verging on the uncomfortable (ie, Hoyt target bows), but I don't know that the ratio of cost to personal income is much different than it was long ago. While you still have to buy serious quality, just about any bow purchased today has enough quality to be a very fine shooting bow. Having just watched the Lancaster Tournament this weekend, I saw Mathews, Hoyt, Elite, PSE, and quite a few others bows represented. By far, more folks were hoisting Hoyt bows, but I do not know if this is because Hoyt has game-changing quality, or that they sponsor their shooters more lavishly. 

- believe it or not, being away from archery for 21 years means that I am 21 years older. Muscles, tendons, and ligaments require a bit more care now than they did long ago. Think about taking care of shoulders, elbows, hands, and back as you shoot, especially if you shoot 2000 arrows in two weeks (wow !!).

- information about archery abounds today, thanks in large part to the Internet. Archery resources like ArcheryTalk are incredible for their span of the sport(s), as well as their ability to attract really knowledgeable archery enthusiasts. Read and learn as much as you can on here. Some of the bow tuning and shooting form threads are incredible; I am particularly impressed by, and suggest that you find, the shooting improvement thread from LadyBowhunter12, working with Alan Liu and Nuts-and-Bolts coaching, to fast-track your form and tuning knowledge.

- the thrill of steadily improving your target shooting is still really exciting and energizing, even in my "old" age.. I shot a personal best 450 round target score at an area tournament on Saturday, and I wanted to shoot another round right then. The adrenaline still pumps after 21 years.

- finally, though I do not know CBE sights, I'll guess that the "racking" that they refer to is actually "wracking," which is sloppy movement of the sight when moving vertically; this is sometimes manifested as binding of the sight, making movement difficult, or misalignment of the sight head when moved from position to position, making sighting inaccurate.

Welcome back to the sport and good luck,

Dave


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## Quasimodo (Nov 26, 2014)

The real secret to the "10" and centering your peep is smelling the string!


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## hdroadglide (Jan 1, 2015)

Quasimodo said:


> The real secret to the "10" and centering your peep is smelling the string!


The coach at the range tonight, during the league, said basically the same thing. Plus, it seems, that my string needs to be twisted every 4 or 5 arrows so that the peep is as visible as possible.

You all have been VERY helpful and I appreciate it. I have even printed all of this so I can study my "to do" list before I practice.

Thank you all......


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

hdroadglide said:


> The coach at the range tonight, during the league, said basically the same thing. Plus, it seems, that my string needs to be twisted every 4 or 5 arrows so that the peep is as visible as possible.


That's fixable these days also, with the good string materials we have. Press the bow and put a half turn in or out of the draw string to bring the peep round. It's a little bit of an art as to which end to twist, how much and which direction, but eventually you can get the peep aligned or very close to it at full draw...

LS


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## hdroadglide (Jan 1, 2015)

unclejane said:


> That's fixable these days also, with the good string materials we have. Press the bow and put a half turn in or out of the draw string to bring the peep round. It's a little bit of an art as to which end to twist, how much and which direction, but eventually you can get the peep aligned or very close to it at full draw...
> 
> LS


I am learning that it all is a bit of an art and patience. The nice thing about shooting in a league is that I have to (no choice) take my time. Taking my time and only shooting 3 arrows at a time is helpful but was a huge adjustment to my rapid fire technique LOL.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Since you are just starting out you really should get with me and I will help you become a hinge shooter, I wouldn't wast two or three years punching a trigger and then decide that you wish you were a hinge shooter. Hinge shooting is something that you have to train to become proficient at and it is very rewarding once you get there so I am hoping that you pm me and we can get started.


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