# Target Panic causes and cures (by popular request)



## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

I have gotten tons of target panic and shot execution questions lately now that everyone is headed back to the indoor range. I thought I would take a second and outline my thoughts on target panic and how I cured myself and helped others.

First of all, it is not caused by the release or what type of sight or aiming reticle you use. Changing release styles to a Stan style (triggerless), pinky, or middle finger activated release is only the first step. By changing the release you have a chance to train yourself with a new and hopefully correct habit. But, you have to treat the root of the issue to be totally free. 

What is the root of the problem? I think it is very important to really understand where it came from before you can begin learning proper shot execution from the ground up. 

Here’s how it happens to most people…

Many shooters start their release shooting career with a simple set of instructions. “Put the pin in the middle and squeeeeeeze the trigger.” It sounds simple enough, but there is one problem. As a new shooter, you can’t hold the pin in the middle of the target and monkey around with a new release aid at the same time. Eventually they unknowingly slip into a pattern of touching off the trigger as the sight wobbles over the center of the target. In the beginning they see fairly good accuracy and continue to imbed a reflexive trigger response. 

Basically over time the shooter develops a hardwired connection between their trigger finger and their eye. The eye sees the pin cross the middle and it triggers the fire reflex. In target shooters this problem manifests itself as a rapid increase in scores and then a jagged average after that. The good days and the bad days are very far apart and the bad days are made worse by pressure and over-trying. The snowballing effect of pressure can be very frustrating at this stage. 

The shooter first becomes aware of the problem when trying to increase their scores to the next level. As they become more stable and can hold the pin still on the target, subconsciously they hold off of the center because they are “not ready to shoot”. This slowly becomes freezing. Shooters then try to ease the pin or dot carefully into the center of the target. This works for a short time until their trigger reflex begins shooting too early. It is usually at this point a shooter realizes that there is a problem and they finally can feel the loss of control in their shot execution. Just after the freezing stage is the uncontrollable flinching, jerking, and the frustration from the total loss of control. 

The good news is that you can break this habit just about as simply as you learned it. it just takes time and steady, dilligent work.

First, changing releases will help because it will be easier to learn a new release style. I have seen very few people who could learn to shoot their old release effectively, but once proper technique is learned many have great success going back to their old releases.

Second, you need to properly learn how to activate the release and what it feels like when it is happening correctly. The easiest way I know of to do this is to make a loop of string that when looped over your bow hand and hooked to the release, it can be drawn back like a bow and it fits your draw length. The loop will simulate a bow and help you learn to pull through the release. The key here is to shoot your new release over and over and develop the feel of a surprise shot without the distraction of the bow and sight. Because of the connection between the sight, your eye, and the target is what triggers the response; you have to eliminate the sight and target for now. (incedentally, I use this technique everytime I try a new release)

When you are shooting the loop, learn to relax your release hand through the releasing process. Here’s how it works. While you have the shooting loop at full draw, develop tension in the loop. Wrap your finger around the trigger or set your fingers on the triggerless release deeply and pull against the loop. You should feel the pressure building against the pads of your fingers. As that pressure builds allow your index and middle fingers to yield against the pressure. It will be almost as if your fingers are relaxing out of the release. This yielding creates a transfer of power from the finger beds to your trigger finger applying pressure to the button causing it to fire on its own time. If you are shooting a Stan, the pressure will transfer from your index finger to your third or fourth finger causing the release to pivot enough to fire. _NOTE: when this is done correctly, someone watching will barely notice a change or any movement. It is more of a power transfer than a movement. _ 

Continue to practice this and stay away from your bow until you have it perfected and you have done it enough to be habit. I am talking a couple weeks (depending on how bad your problem is.) Resist the urge to advance too quickly. This is what got you to where you are now. You want to build a good strong foundation of habit that will stay with you from now on. You will want to practice this step until it is an automatic response.

The next step is transferring the feel to your bow. Take the sight off your bow and remove the target from the bale. Shoot arrows at a very close range with your eyes closed. Concentrate only on making the feel exactly like it was on the loop. Do this for a week if you have to. Only advance when you have it down perfect and it is an automatic response or habit. 

Now you can put your sight on the bow and get at about 5 yards. This step requires a little visualization skill that you will have to learn as you go. Draw your bow and line up the sight with the blank bale. Then close your eyes and visualize the dot slowly floating in the X-ring, and then execute the shot. Continue to practice this and make sure that you visualize the dot floating in the x. You will hardly ever see it sit still so you will need to make it as realistic as possible. Continue to practice this for at least a week or more depending on how bad your issue was. 

Finally you get to put a target up on the bale… But you can’t shoot it yet. During this step you will develop a new habit. You will learn to confidently approach the target and get used to the idea that the pin or dot can be in the middle without immediately triggering the shot. Stand at about five yards and do these steps

1. Look at the X you want to shoot
2. Keeping your vision on that X, draw your bow
3. Keep your vision on the X and move into your anchor
4. The move the peep and scope into view of your eye and it should line up with the X you are looking at. 
5. Pause on the X, watch it float, and after about 8 seconds or so let down. Take time to get a good look at it, get used to it. 

Make sure you splash the dot or pin right into the middle of the X and let it float. Resist the urge to creep into it. Repeat this at 5 yards until you feel good about it, then move to 10 and repeat again. Once you have a good feel for that, move to 15 and then 20. This will give you a good idea of what sight movement really is and let you show yourself that you can hold on the X. The whole object of this exercise is to desensitize yourself and eliminate the connection between your eye, target, and release.

Now it’s been about 6 weeks and you should be ready to shoot your first shots. Set up at five yards and try to recreate actual shooting conditions. You should keep score and write it down, even go as far as use an official league score card. Shoot a full game on the target of your choosing. I prefer to score FITA style on a Vegas face, but if the NFAA Nationals are near, I will use a five spot. Concentrate on shooting the shot correctly and just let the sight float. Be on guard and don’t let old habits sneak in. Make yourself comfortable with holding in the middle while allowing the shot to smoothly and naturally execute. If you are completing this with no trouble at all and are shooting perfect shots after a couple days, you can move on, but only advance when you have mastered the release. 

Now you have mastered 5 yards you will move to ten and continue scoring and shooting. Spend a week or two here and continue until you have mastered ten and can go through a full game without a single bad shot. Next move on to 15 and then 20. 

By the time you make it out to 20, you should be in control of your shot and be well on your way to shooting top scores. There will still be rough days and minor relapses. If you experience trouble, go right back to 10 yards and shoot some 10 yard games to re-affirm the feel and the flow of good shooting. This all may seem like a lot to go through and taking half a season off to fix yourself is a price you have to pay. I will guarantee you that all the boredom and minutia that you go through during this process will be well worth it in the end and it will reward you will a long and full career of enjoyable shooting. 

You just have to ask your self, “how bad to I want it”. I spent about 4 months with the initial steps that I have outlined here, but it took about 2 years before I shot my first tournament all the way through without a hint of TP.

I hope this helps.


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## cpickdc (Jul 13, 2005)

*Release*

What kind/brand of release can a guy use for this? I now use scott wildcat, and would eventually like to get back to using it. Are there any decent releases that you can recommend for this??

Craig


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

Another great posting!!! Thanks, GRIV


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

You can use any release you choose for this. All of them will work. It is all in how you relax your hand.


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## Lifer (Jul 24, 2002)

Good read there, George! Though I'm still convinced that my TP was caused by some bad beer!  
The Blind Baling really helped me this summer, though I now wish I had spent some time with the string loop. Guess there is plenty of time for that during these coming winter evenings.

Are there any tips you can offer for finger shooters...so we can quit plucking under pressure?


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

*relax*

relax your hand and pull with your back right ????????????????


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## ridgerunner (Jun 24, 2003)

AWESOME GRIV!!
thanks!
We are so lucky to have such knowledgable folks who are willing to share. If you don't mind, I'm gonna print this one and have sheets ready to hand out for people who need it at our league. :thumbs_up :thumbs_up


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Lifer, 

When shooting traditional bows with fingers it is the sight picture that triggers the shot even though you don't have a sight. 

The steps are similar if you are using periphery aiming or gap shooting you will need to practice holding your sight picture in place and letting down. If you have it bad usually the symptoms are low shots under the deer or short drawing (releasing before anchor). 

Here’s what you can do. Practice without the bow and the use the string loop but you will have to modify it a little. Get a broom handle or stout dowel rod about 3’ in length and fix the string to the ends. Adjust the length to fit your draw to the corner of your mouth with a little pressure against it. Then practice with your tab and hook into the edge of your mouth or whatever your anchor is. Practice stretching into your anchor as you release. 

The release with fingers is a mental command so you will have to create a trigger (similar to a clicker.) I prefer to stretch into my anchor. I use my middle finger in the corner of my mouth. I use a periphery aiming technique and I swing up to the target and draw as I swing up. I finish the last 3 inches of the draw level with the sight picture I want. I touch my anchor and stretch into it. Right when I feel the stretch max out, I release through the shot. It is a very dynamic and free flowing style that works with moving or stationary targets. 

Try this technique on a blank bale until you master it then move to a target at close range similar to the above instructions. I have had good luck teaching this to others and it seems to work well. Let me know how it works out for you.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Go right ahead!



ridgerunner said:


> AWESOME GRIV!!
> thanks!
> We are so lucky to have such knowledgable folks who are willing to share. If you don't mind, I'm gonna print this one and have sheets ready to hand out for people who need it at our league. :thumbs_up :thumbs_up


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## dzingale (Mar 11, 2004)

Thank you,
I know it will help me.
Danny :thumbs_up


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2005)

Hey Dr. I agree with what you say.. I do have some questions And for many They are somewhat controversial...

How heavy should the realease be.

How much travel if any should it have...

I think the releases should be heavy enough to place your finger(s) in the proper position,, but have no travel... Even with a stan style release. if a person feels the movement,, does that not facilletate target panic as well...


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

George thanks for taking the time from your busy schedule to share your knowledge!.... :thumbs_up


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## olehemlock (Dec 10, 2004)

Thanks George for the post, best post I've read in months. Dan


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

I prefer a heavy release. This makes it easy to put your thumb on the trigger without fear of it firing early. I prefer to have zero travel.



MasterYoda said:


> Hey Dr. I agree with what you say.. I do have some questions And for many They are somewhat controversial...
> 
> How heavy should the realease be.
> 
> ...


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## Lifer (Jul 24, 2002)

Thanks, George, for taking the time. :thumbs_up :thumbs_up


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## andy_smaga (Sep 27, 2003)

*Thanks again George* :thumbs_up


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## ArchersParadox (May 12, 2005)

Very inSIGHTful!!!

I just copied, pasted, and printed out your post!

Thank You.


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

This is the good stuff that you get at a GRIV seminar. I had already beat most of this stuff into my head before I met GRIV but he really reinforces this in his class. Another thing that GRIV reinforced is that "it is only archery". Why put all the pressure on yourself? After the tournament your dog will not look at you any differently...you will hopefully still have the same old job...if you win money it will be gone in a heartbeat and all you have is the satisfaction of doing your best. That should be why you shoot!

Have fun...try hard!!!

araz2114


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## flinchmatic (Mar 12, 2004)

*wow*

This is probably the best post I've ever read on here....as you can tell from my user name I've struggled with T.P. in the past. I have made advances with it using my own techniques that have helped immensely...techniques that imulate your instructions here. I used to shoot indoor leauges 8 years ago and made it well into double A when I started to struggle. Since then I have retreated to "just bowhunting" and eventually gave it a rest altogether to the tune of 5 years. I've been shooting again for 3 years and bowhunting again (I shot the biggest buck I ever shot last year) and am shooting better than ever.
I have invented my own benchmark in bow shooting that I can acheive...but not consistently...for every round. I call it the "Mike Mace Minute of Angle".I'm sure you know about minute of angle when referring to rifles. Mine goes like this...1 inch for every 10 yards grouping....yeah...2 inches @ 20 ...3 [email protected] 30..and so on. This is my personal goal. I've been shooting constantly at 40 yards tring to keep 'um inside a 4 in. group..and I like to shoot at 70 to measure the groups..yet after all these years...I can't seem to do it for very many rounds in a row. I may have to put the time into your method-by the "book", to reach my personal goal. You have inspired me to try harder with a new dedication.
You are the foundation that this site is built on...more people like you would make this world a better place to live in...THANK YOU very much for your time and compassion to make better archers out of all of us...Mike


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## vam (Aug 28, 2005)

*Man Has This Help*

GEO.THANK YOU for taking time to do this.great post.Just to let you know I am at 10yds now for almost 2 weeks wow and the things I learned I didnt know all things I was doing wrong thanks to you I am coming along ok.but got to work on them fingers.more.Thank you again from this 74 yr old fart.God Bless vam :thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up :tongue:


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## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

*Great insight ....*

Thanks :teeth:


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## Keith Thompson (Jul 17, 2005)

*the release*

I'm new here. I need help understanding what it is that sets off the release. I use the wrist strap release with the trigger. Is it back tension that should set off the release? The bow hand puching forward? Still don't understand what constitutes the perfect release.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Thanks George*

Dreaming of that first 60X score, the quest continues


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## spicman (Dec 1, 2003)

*thanks for taking the time*

thanks for the great post,very informative. :thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

GRIV

once you master this release method...is it a good method to use when shooting in the wind , or what about competitons where shooting quickly is a factor?


I like using my zenith, set fairly slow

But when shooting in the wind, when it is impossible to hold anywhere near the center of the target, I feel like it is ok for me command the release for occasions like this, however clean releases when trying to command fire a triggerless release are almost impossible I find.
I can feel the release shanging up on the loop and shot is way off from where I commanded it from 

if i commanded a trigger release this would not happen 

Do you recommend not using a triggerless releases for shooting in the wind?
And if so I imagine a trigger release that is set very stiff would be difficult to time with a "controlled Punch", maybe would have to use a lighter trigger setting for these occasions?

Thanks
Just curious as to what you find works best for you 

I have bad target panic issues, with the zenith i am almost cured, so I dont really want to stop using it if i can help it 

Thanks

Francis


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Keith Thompson said:


> I'm new here. I need help understanding what it is that sets off the release. I use the wrist strap release with the trigger. Is it back tension that should set off the release? The bow hand puching forward? Still don't understand what constitutes the perfect release.



Keith, 

Your method will be slightly different. With a wrist strap release you will need to shorten the projection (the length that is sticks out of your hand) of your release so the trigger is in line with the crack in your largest knuckle. This will allow you to fully wrap your finger over the trigger and get a nice deep grip. As you apply pressure against the “shooting loop” allow the muscles in your wrist and hand to relax as you pull. This will shift pressure on the trigger (as it is curled over the trigger.)

The Copper John Eagle 2 finger is a great release for this technique. You can pull with your index and then wrap your middle finger around the trigger. As you relax your index finger your middle puts pressure on the trigger.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

here is another view


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

francis said:


> GRIV
> 
> once you master this release method...is it a good method to use when shooting in the wind , or what about competitons where shooting quickly is a factor?


I am a very fast shooter and this menthod works great no matter what type of shooting you are in. In the wind or fast shooting situations it is all about tempo. If it is windy speed up the tempo. If you are under pressure and are unstable, slow down the tempo.




> I like using my zenith, set fairly slow
> 
> But when shooting in the wind, when it is impossible to hold anywhere near the center of the target, I feel like it is ok for me command the release for occasions like this, however clean releases when trying to command fire a triggerless release are almost impossible I find.
> I can feel the release shanging up on the loop and shot is way off from where I commanded it from
> ...


I feel that it is never ok to command shoot. And yes it is possible to shoot a triggerless in the wind, you just have to speed up the tempo. When shot correctly most all releases are activated the same, so you can shoot most any of them in any situation. 




> And if so I imagine a trigger release that is set very stiff would be difficult to time with a "controlled Punch", maybe would have to use a lighter trigger setting for these occasions?


I would never recommend a controlled punch. It is just target panic waiting to happen. 



> Thanks
> Just curious as to what you find works best for you
> 
> I have bad target panic issues, with the zenith i am almost cured, so I dont really want to stop using it if i can help it
> ...


Stick with your triggerless release and try the steps I have outlined above. Concentrate on tempo when you are in a windy situation.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

*GRIV, am I defeating myself or is this variation good?*

This maybe sort of unusual. But, I have been shooting two different bows. I shoot a Martin Scepter III Nitrous-X and a BowTech Pro 40 Dually. I practice a little 5 spot before I shoot Indoor 3D with the Dually. I usually take a few shots with the Dually before the indoor competition starts.

Now, these two bow are about a far a part as they can be. Bother are similar poundage, but the Dually feels like a Tiger in my hand compared to the Scepter's, putty-cat feel. But, I shot both very well, I use the same release with both.

GRIV, am I defeating myself or is this variation good?


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## Reno (Jun 4, 2002)

*String loop*

Great post Griv. For comfort one can use about a 5" section of conduit or hose, I use a section of old washing machine hose, to run the practice string loop through to act as the bow grip. Just easier on the hand when practicing.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Deezlin said:


> This maybe sort of unusual. But, I have been shooting two different bows. I shoot a Martin Scepter III Nitrous-X and a BowTech Pro 40 Dually. I practice a little 5 spot before I shoot Indoor 3D with the Dually. I usually take a few shots with the Dually before the indoor competition starts.
> 
> Now, these two bow are about a far a part as they can be. Bother are similar poundage, but the Dually feels like a Tiger in my hand compared to the Scepter's, putty-cat feel. But, I shot both very well, I use the same release with both.
> 
> GRIV, am I defeating myself or is this variation good?


That is a personal thing. I usually like to at least keep the grip feel, mass weight, and draw weight as close as possible. If it is not disrupting your scores, I don't see it as a problem. Some people have problems and others don't. As a archery equipment designer, I have to shoot tons of different releases, bows, and accessories, so over the years I got used to shooting different things all the time. It doesn't cause a problem for me at all.


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## salizex (Sep 10, 2003)

*Put the string in a pipe.*

Thanks for the Tips GRIV.

Stringing the practice string through a pvc pipe serves as a good handle and keeps your bow hand from getting sore.

sam


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## vam (Aug 28, 2005)

salizex said:


> Thanks for the Tips GRIV.
> 
> Stringing the practice string through a pvc pipe serves as a good handle and keeps your bow hand from getting sore.
> 
> sam


I might add I put 4 loops of bungee cord though the pvc pipe with a nylon cord the set at my dl the bungee gave the feel of your hoiding # and it has work real well for me. bungee about 3/8in. Just my?? :thumbs_up vam


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

Thanks Griv


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## Island Archer (Mar 9, 2005)

I now this reply looks long just thought it might help someone else. 

I suffered from target panic for many years. I always dismissed for some sort of shooting flaw. Weather it was a release problem or an issue with my bow. It got to the point where I lacked the self confidence to even execute a shot sequence. I pretty much gave up archery except for the occasional hunting trip. Then one day I was home visiting my mother and found my old book by Al Henderson. He persistanly stated that one must be honest with oneself and look at yourself in the mirror. At that point I changed my habits and began to focus on the problem at hand. The dreaded TP. As of last year I was able to get my scores up to were I felt I was accomplishing something. This help improve my confidence and overall shooting. So the input I would have for someone looking for information on target panic is to follow the advice of Girv, read Al Henderson's book and do what James Despart has suggested in some of his teachings. But most of all confidence in oneself will always allow that person to come out on top. Never get down and allways stand tall. Remember we will allways win our personal battles, If you want too.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

*Reply to subject*

Hello Griv
What suggestions would you have for a thumb wrist strap release.

Unk :smile:


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## dhunt1 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Release Types*

I still own a Stan Avenger Bigthing release that Ive modified with different springs. I purposely set mine as tight as it will go. Set the thumb peg deep in my hand and keep the whole of the top side of the hand totally relaxed to give ease of rotation. Because i put it so deep its also easier to hold the bow steady. I preload the thumb peg and also preload what everyone calls back-tension. Then Ive got a certain time frame for which the release will happen. 
Griv does this sound correct to you. I'm not a pro but Ive had great success with this style and taught new people at my place of work. They seem to enjoy learning a whole new way of shooting.....


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## Stanley (Jan 18, 2005)

*Nice job*

Very informative post.


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## Tejas Raz (Jan 24, 2003)

Great thread for any shooter Griv! Thanks.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Tejas Raz said:


> Great thread for any shooter Griv! Thanks.


It sure is ! :thumbs_up Nice job Griv :star:


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## tboss49 (Jul 11, 2002)

*Great Post GRIV*

If any of you guys get the chance, take GRIV's class/seminar. GRIV brings alot of information and great perceptions to the game. 

DB, if you're looking for that 60x game, I recommend seeing GRIV. I shot my first 60x a couple months after his class, but more importantly, I enjoy the game more!!!!! :thumbs_up


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## BradN (Sep 1, 2004)

Griv and/or MikeD,

I think this information would make a lovely addition to the Articles Section!!!


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## hunter54 (Feb 18, 2003)

*Thanks George!*

Thats' a great post, very well explained, I'm going to post it on my website under tips, with all the credit going to you! Keep up the good work my friend.

George Dixon


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Thanks George!

You go right ahead and do that. :smile:


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## hayman (Sep 9, 2004)

tboss49 said:


> If any of you guys get the chance, take GRIV's class/seminar.


So GRIV,

Do you have a schedule/dates of where your next seminars are taking place?

MORE BLOG Please


Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Bill


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Griv . . . that was a great write-up. The "causes" describes me to a "T" except I learned target panic with fingers.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

hayman said:


> So GRIV,
> 
> Do you have a schedule/dates of where your next seminars are taking place?
> 
> ...


Hi Bill,

I will be in several places over the next couple months. 

Toronto, Ontario.......Nov 4-5 (sorry this one is full)
Worthing, MN...........Dec 2-4 (this one is close Contact 1xatatime)
Middleburg, NY.........Dec 9-11(contact PINWHEEL)
Las Vegas, NV..........Feb 11-12 (world archery festival)

If anyone wants to schedule a seminar in your area or at your local club, just send me a pm, I have a few weekends left I can fill here and there.


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## JeremyS (Feb 23, 2004)

You can also contact me if you might be interested in the one in Worthington, MN. I am not sure exactly where we are at for numbers, but I believe we are giving preference to Saratoga, Beaver Creek, and SW Bowbenders club members first. All others will be put on a list to fill any open spots. I think this is accurate, but will correct it if not. If you haven't been to a seminar, it is well worth the money.


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## Legend_Of_Sherwood (Nov 24, 2003)

Nice read, lots of information GRIV!

I have one question about shooting with a trigerless release. I was working a lot last year during the summer and then master it for a short time and I could shoot very good indoor. But in spring this year when first FITAs began I was   . It was the wind. I could shoot avery good on practise but when I'm on a competition I think "will I run out of time"....
So I took the same aproach this summer to get rid of nasty target panic. Lots of blank bailing. But this year I'm not even close to that kind of level I had last year when indoors began. I can aim in the middle and pull but after five or six seconds I rip it off. And I think that most blame goes on index finger. 
It's just frustrating if you invest a lot of time in blank bailing and then you don't do well. I know I have to get used of the target, but... 
Maybe I just need more confidence. And the biggest thing I notice between last year and this year shots: I could aim as long as I want last year but I got tired eventually, but I didn't punch my release even on competitions. This year I'm all tensed up and waiting for it to happen.
Do you have any good advices on this one??


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Legend_Of_Sherwood said:


> Nice read, lots of information GRIV!
> 
> I have one question about shooting with a trigerless release. I was working a lot last year during the summer and then master it for a short time and I could shoot very good indoor. But in spring this year when first FITAs began I was   . It was the wind. I could shoot avery good on practise but when I'm on a competition I think "will I run out of time"....
> So I took the same aproach this summer to get rid of nasty target panic. Lots of blank bailing. But this year I'm not even close to that kind of level I had last year when indoors began. I can aim in the middle and pull but after five or six seconds I rip it off. And I think that most blame goes on index finger.
> ...



Go back and carefully re-read the first post. It is not just blank bailing. You can shoot fine on the blank bale, but then when you put the target up, you begin punching. The reason for this is the fact that it is the target that is the problem. Start shooting the target from very close range instead of blank bailing. You need to eliminate the connection between your eye (seeing the dot in the middle) and the release.


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

*Man, can you believe this guy?!*

Just because this "GRIV" character shoots a couple of back-to-back 900's at Vegas, he thinks he's qualified to tell us all how to beat target panic!  :thumbs_do 







(Just messin' with ya, George! Great post from one of the best in the game.........  :thumbs_up


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## gabe branscum (Dec 6, 2002)

*Target panic*

I have had target panic for quite some time but compensate by setting my pins lower than normal which i thought would be sufficientWell hunting situations are completely different as i have learned recently.I was on an elk hunt recently and met a guy at a hunting spot i have been going to for a while anyway i heard him bugle a few times and i did a few cow calls and after about five minutes he walked up on me telling me that we should work together because we would have a better chance.To make a long story short we walked into the meadow and he bugled which got a response immediately after about five minutes of this (cow calls and bugles) he started cutting off the bulls by bugeling as soon as they started to bugle (i wondered what he was doing) thinking he was screwing things up.After about two of the cutoffs i heard crashing and the guy i was with got up very quickly and hid under a tree.five seconds later all i see is horn tips through the trees.I drew my bow, had the elks vitals in clear view and started dropping my bow (this is how i shoot start high and lower)anyway at twenty yards i blew a 20 yard shot at probably the biggest elk i might ever see(right over his back) i did have the sense though to cow call as he ran and stopped him at 45 yds at which the guy i was with shot right under him.The bull was estimated by the guy i was with at about 350 pts and i believe him because he told me he had called in over 100 bulls.well i guess a lesson learned and many nights of lost sleep but i see alot of similarities in what this guy is saying and what i have been doing and am going to work on it.The good thing is that i am fired up for next year and the outcome is going to be different


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

gabe branscum said:


> i see alot of similarities in what this guy is saying and what i have been doing and am going to work on it.The good thing is that i am fired up for next year and the outcome is going to be different


Gabe,

Many times an aiming problem is manageable until you are under extreme pressure. Your shot routine was programmed to fire when your pins were just off target. In your situation you were aiming at the whole elk so your brain triggered the shot with the pins just off the elk. 

In your case, I would urge you to go through the routine and when you get to the part or aiming at the target, practice picking a spot. You can do this by shooting at an arrow hole inside the target or a shiny spot on your 3D target. Basically you have two issues that you need to address before next hunting season. You need to clear up your aiming problem and get those pins back on the spot you want to hit and you need to train yourself to focus your concentration on a single point in space when you are under pressure.

I hope this helps. Keep us posted on your progress.


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## rcm (Jan 19, 2005)

GRIV said:


> Gabe,
> 
> Many times an aiming problem is manageable until you are under extreme pressure. Your shot routine was programmed to fire when your pins were just off target. In your situation you were aiming at the whole elk so your brain triggered the shot with the pins just off the elk.
> 
> ...




This is a lot of great information, if i could i would like to ask you to drill down a little deeper for these questions i have regarding the above quote.

1. when do you start aiming
2. can you put into words what happens when you are aiming at the target before the shot thru the arrow hitting the target.
3. and can you elaboarte on "focus your concentration on a single point in space"


thanks


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## gabe branscum (Dec 6, 2002)

*exactly*

I was aiming at the whole elk antlers and all.Thanks for all the great info


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## eric96 (Dec 13, 2004)

*Target panic*

Griv I know what target panic is all about I have fought it for years. The problem began years ago when I first started shooting 3-D in my JR. highschool days. some of the people I shot with then kepped telling me to hurry up and shoot well I developed a very bad habit of rapid fire shooting. I am just now learning to take my time with my recurve or my coundpound when it come to shooting. But I still have the problem of seeing the spot and shoot. that is a very bad habit indead.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

rcm said:


> This is a lot of great information, if i could i would like to ask you to drill down a little deeper for these questions i have regarding the above quote.
> 
> 1. when do you start aiming
> 2. can you put into words what happens when you are aiming at the target before the shot thru the arrow hitting the target.
> ...


*1. When do I start aiming?*

Technically speaking, I begin aiming the minute I decide I am going to shoot an arrow. Here is how it works for me. I look at the spot I want to hit and focus my vision on exactly where I want to hit it. Next (when I am under pressure) I will visualize exactly what I want to happen. I call this mental rehearsal. I see the dot on the point I want the arrow to enter the target and feel the release and follow through. (This takes about half a second.) Keeping my vision focused on the target, I draw and pull into the stops. I then move my anchor into my face and allow the peep and scope to align with my eye. Since I am staring at the target through these steps, the scope aligns itself with what I am aiming at. 

*2. What happens during aiming and through the shot to the follow through?*

I am now at full draw and the dot is wobbling in the middle of the target. I center the movement on the exact point that I want the arrow to enter the target. As I center my dot, I make sure that I have no muscle tension in my bow hand or release hand. I am already very firm into the stops on the bow. At this point I increase that pressure. This increase in pressure tightens the dot’s float in the middle of the target. My thumb is firmly on the trigger. While I feel the pressure build on my finger pads (release hand) I allow my index finger and middle finger to yield to that pressure, and POOF! The bow fires. Sometimes I can get a glimpse of my arrow flight, but in most cases the bow is in the way. During my follow through it will tilt slowly forward and then to the side just at the end giving me a view of the arrow just as it lands. If the shot was especially good, I will replay it in my head once or twice to re-affirm the good stuff. I do this during the slight pause before I lower my arms to reload. If it is a bad shot, I just forget it and reload. 

All this takes about 6 seconds. 

*3. A single point in space. *

The space that I am referring to is the target, elk, or goal. If you aim at the whole target butt, you will hit close to it. If you aim at the whole target face, you will hit close to it. If you aim at the bulls eye, you will hit close to it. If you aim at the exact epicenter of the middle of the X ring…. You will hit close to it. 

The single point in space I am referring to is the finest point of impact you can either see or imagine within your intended target. This conversation topic tends to get a little Zen Metaphysical, but at the risk of sounding like I am headed off the reservation…. Here goes… You can see the target or Elk in front of you and you can hurriedly wing and arrow at the whole target and maybe get lucky. Likewise you can see the inner rings of the target or the vital area of the elk and take a controlled shot within that area and maybe have better results. BUT, if you refine your aiming goal to the exact center or an arrow hole within the center of the target and focus all your energy on that single point in space and take a deliberate controlled shot through that single point, you will get the greatest result possible. Our subconscious wants to aim at the goal. It is up to us to consciously and deliberately give our subconscious the tightest goal we can possibly provide. 

In a hunting environment you would identify the animal. Then choose the location for the arrow to strike. Next find the exact hair that you would like to split that is within that location. The animal itself no longer exists it is just a hair or….. a single point in space.


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## rcm (Jan 19, 2005)

thanks alot i understand now what you were saying, hope to see you around this year.

rob
:teeth:


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## tbailey (Feb 25, 2004)

*We Want Griv's Book!!!*

In unison everyone!

WE WANT GRIV'S BOOK!!!WE WANT GRIV'S BOOK!!!WE WANT GRIV'S BOOK!!!WE WANT GRIV'S BOOK!!!WE WANT GRIV'S BOOK!!!WE WANT GRIV'S BOOK!!!WE WANT GRIV'S BOOK!!!WE WANT GRIV'S BOOK!!!

Somebody needs to kidnap him and make him get the full transcript together for the publisher!


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Griv*

When we were with him last weekend he said he is very close.
It will definitely be worth the wait.
Jbird


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

I hoped to have my book ready in the fall....well.... it's fall and it's not done. :embarasse I am very close and will soon get it all organized into a final product. I have to concentrate on the New STAN product line right now. You guys are going to be very surprised with what you see.


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

GRIV.Great post.I think I know the answer to this but I'm going to ask anyways.Last year I started shooting a triggerless release.I wanted to try something that would help me gain a few points.I never really saw any gains.I did shoot a wrist strap release.I didn't think I had TP, just wanted some extra points.Well during this time I started reading post like yours books and watching videos.All these were suggesting I had some form of TP.I didn't think so.But after awhile I accepted that I did.I made several attempts during the year to switch back and even to a thumb release.Man you talking about a war with my mind and my finger and thumb.I couldn't make the thing shoot. Before I was the type that drew my bow back and my pin just sat were ever I wanted it to.My buddy who had TP real bad would always quiz me about what went threw my mind when shooting.I would tell him nothing.My pin just settled on my target and after awhile it went off.He would ask do you think about firing the release and I would tell him no it just happens.With the BT release my sight pic was all over the place.This drove me nuts.So I made myself switch back.It was hard but with the blind bale I did it.But what I found during all this is I was most comfortable shooting in a certain time frame.Any over and any less I could just about tell you were my arrow would land.This brings me to the question.Is the time frame that important?It seem very important for me or am I just hiding from the truth?Sorry so long but maybe you can answer this for me and maybe some others who may be or have went threw the same thing.I wouldn't ask but I noticed you mentioned something abou 6 second in above post.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

I believe that every shooter has a "shot window". It is different for everyone and it is depending on your personal strength and personality. 

You can see your shot window while you are shooting. The pin initially sits very still in the target with a slight float. As you hold longer it begins to move more and more to the point that it is out of control. Learn to abort the shot just before you have crossed that line. 

I can't recommend a specific shot timing for anyone, but most people tend to be more accurate with a fast to medium tempo.


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

Thanks GRIV.The one thing I've learned this past year by reading & watching the videos is to use stuff like you posted as a format.I then compare to thing I've done and do and usually find were the holes are in my game.


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## joeturse (Jul 11, 2004)

*Back to the top*

To get this great post back to the top,here is a pic of how I use my rope.


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## BUSH in 04 (Oct 8, 2004)

GRIV

your a great Ambassador to the sport
thanks


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Shooting String*

I ran the string thru a 4 1/2" piece of 3/8' ID clear aquarium tubing and then tied the knot. Makes a great cheap handle to keep the string from eating on your bow hand.
Jbird


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

*GRIV, something I've always wondered about....*

Do you think it is possible (or have you personally seen) guys that shot very well and displayed no signs of TP....suddenly acquire TP after reading or studying alot about it?

I have heard several coaches say that they believe TP can also be a "self-fulfilling prophecy".....a guy worries so much about coming down with it that he DOES......

Lots of guys who either have never had it (or had it but beat it), don't even want target-panic mentioned or discussed where they can over-hear the conversation.....  

What's your take on this??


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

I believe that to be superstition.

I had target panic and beat it. I help others through it all the time and that doesn't cause me to "come down with it".

I feel that people who may have a problem already and are unaware could read and recognize their problem. This might give someone the idea that they caught it from reading too much, but if the information comes along with a cure fully explained, it may save someones archery career or enjoyment of the sport before they even knew that it was in trouble. 

Target panic can't be caught and passed like the common cold. It is a subconsious reflex that is practiced over time, developed, and deeply imbedded into a shooters psyche. 

I try not to officially diagnose shooters with "target Panic" and I also don't give an individual a full description of what is happening to them. I tell them only what I feel is neccessary to help them understand the issue because understanding how they got there is a big step to fixing the problem. 

I believe that it is more productive to lead them to the cure through exercises and teach them how to develop the proper shooting fundamentals that they skipped while developing an aiming problem.

But that's just my opinion based on my personal experience.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

*To the top*

for Paul, Mike, John, and Isacc

If you guys have any questions post them here


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Great post, very helpful. I have a question, though. Any way to apply this to my TruFire Judge release? I have no other fingers other than the large knuckle of my index finger over the trigger or on the release. Relax and send pressure from where to my trigger finger? I keep my hand relaxed (drawing against the buckle strap only) with my finger over it, then slowly pull and push to activate it. It is set very light with almost no travel. Literally a hair trigger. I am primarily a hunter (even small game) and would prefer staying with a triggered hunting release. Gonna' start shooting a little competitive soon.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

XP35 said:


> Great post, very helpful. I have a question, though. Any way to apply this to my TruFire Judge release? I have no other fingers other than the large knuckle of my index finger over the trigger or on the release. Relax and send pressure from where to my trigger finger? I keep my hand relaxed (drawing against the buckle strap only) with my finger over it, then slowly pull and push to activate it. It is set very light with almost no travel. Literally a hair trigger. I am primarily a hunter (even small game) and would prefer staying with a triggered hunting release. Gonna' start shooting a little competitive soon.



It is possible to shoot an index finger in this manner, but it is a delicate feel that you will have to work with until you have it down. Basically, you will set your trigger moderately stiff and draw while holding the release strap and concho (the part that holds the head to the strap). When you are ready to execute, hook your finger over the trigger deeply (in the first knuckle) and then relax your fingers that are holding the concho and strap. This will allow the pressure to transfer from the strap to the index finger. Tinker with this until you can develop the feel.


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Thanks. I think I'll step out back and fire a few off. I'll try 20 first. Hate losing arrows.


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## Oxford (Jun 26, 2002)

Awesome GRIV -- can't wait for the book. Lemme know if you want help with the cover design 

OX


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Well, I tried it. Went out back and four fat squirrels took off. One ran up a tree and sat on a branch. I guessed him at 35, drew and released. Run it through both shoulders and knocked him out of the tree. I got my arrow back and shot a few targets. Your advice just might work. I have to take more travel out of my trigger and try again. I hope noone thinks it's cruel to wack squirrels, but it's probably one of them that keeps chewing their way into my attic, the little rats. He died quick, though. He never ran or squealed.:tongue: I'll post a pic if it bothers anybody.


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## ProtecMan (Apr 14, 2003)

Thanks Griv for the information! Knowledge is power/confidence!


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## rcherrok (Oct 21, 2005)

*Release*

You mentioned to set the release deep in your hand, then as you put pressure on the loop you relax your index and middle fingers thus causing rotation and the release to fire. Well I have learned to relax my release hand then to contract the romboids causing the needed rotation.Using your method arent you using the forarm muscles?


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## Twang! (Apr 20, 2002)

GRIV, I have been using your suggestions and the difference in my scores is amazing!. Could you elaborate more on the "single point in space" concept. I think I am getting your drift.


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## ursonvs (Sep 19, 2003)

you will have to get ahold of griv on his personal website/forum. I would give it out right here but i know for a fact that it would probably make this whole thread get deleted and we would lose yet more knowledge. if you want to know, pm me and i will tell you.


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## Gritty (Dec 18, 2003)

Thought I would give this a bump thought it worked well for me on the spot game . I feel it has also carried overinto my outdoor shooting and has built a better mental foundation for my shooting as a whole..... Thanx Griv


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## BowTech Dave (Feb 27, 2003)

Griv,

I must say that I have enjoyed reading your post on target panic. I have one question though... Say I quit shooting tournaments and follow these steps to be free of target panic, can I still go hunting or do I need to quit all together? I do shoot a lot and I do have target panic. I too have utilized different releases in hopes of curing it, but that hasn't worked. I want to get better, but if I follow this program it will take me right through hunting season and I gotta hunt! 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Dave


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## drtnshtr (Jan 20, 2003)

I got a strange feeling GRIV is not going to answer anymore questions on here


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## Gritty (Dec 18, 2003)

I for one find that to be a terrible shame......... Thanx for the help Griv....


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## drtnshtr (Jan 20, 2003)

yeh im not real sure what happened but I know he started his own website. not real sure if im allowed to post the name of it or not so i will leave that up to someone else.


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## hunter54 (Feb 18, 2003)

*Bowtech Dave*

Hey Bowtech, I know GRIV´S article is good and thorough, I even posted it on my website. However, I think one other good Idea to try also to stop target panic almost immediately.
Focus on your form not the results. Target panic is caused because you want to hit the target more so than you want or care about making a good shot! If you only focus on making a good shot, from start to finish, then the target panic will go away almost immediately. 
IMHO.


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## flexiblegoat (Jul 12, 2005)

you can find griv on archerylive dot com


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## OneBowTie (Jun 14, 2002)

hey flexible goat...i have a hard time finding griv anywhere nowadays that even remotely talks archery....if you ask me...the boy has turned yellow


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## AWT (Aug 17, 2005)

I agree with Field14, if you change your emphasis from the target/results to shooting form then you will avoid your TP. There is no "cure" as such for TP, you will always have it unless you change how you shoot.

If you shoot form you will never get, if you don't shoot form then you may get it. I have suffered from TP and it was because I was using my sight as the trigger to release. Once I changed to shooting form, concentrating on executing the shot I didn't suffer from TP. If I went back to using my sight position as a trigger I will suffer from TP again. As I do intend to keep on shooting form I know I will not encounter TP again.

Once you change how you shoot the results are virtually instantaneous.


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## slowhandstl (Oct 27, 2006)

*Target Panic*

This is such a great thread that it needs to be back at the top, if not a stickie.

Thanks Griv

Slowhandstl


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## Gritty (Dec 18, 2003)

I have read this or parts of this thread many times... I have sent friends to read it... I have learned so much from this thread .... Sticki would be fine with me to...I have it saved on my favorites so it is always a sticki for me..LOL


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

bump....

Just to keep some great reading at the top.


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## thomas 1950 (Oct 3, 2006)

Now that I know what target panic is, I realize that I have it. And, I thought I was beginning to shoot pretty good.

Back to the drawing board.

Thanks for the post. *sigh*
Tom


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## vonottoexperien (Nov 4, 2005)

Get "Core archery" by Larry Wise. It will help you:thumbs_up


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## jcmorgan31 (Nov 9, 2005)

Your lead up to target panic deal there is a description of my short target shooting career to a "T". I am at the "freezing" stage right now and starting to get the uncontrollable jerk and firing thing going on right now. Winter leagues start in January so I am gonna have to try to work on your techniques while shooting 5 spot rounds. If that screws everything up, I may have to start over when the leagues are through. Great info. Thanks.....


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## Oxford (Jun 26, 2002)

good time for a bump


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

ttt


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Oxford said:


> good time for a bump


Why? You got "it"?:sad:


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

This is a great post. I am going to definitely keep an open mind and experiement with some of these techniques posted on this thread.


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## hoove (Feb 25, 2005)

When reading the begining of this tread, I was almost frightened by how GRIV was describing *exactly* what I'm going through now. 

Now all we need is to start a support group!

I'm going to take his advice and try to break my bad habbits.


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## hoove (Feb 25, 2005)

So far so good.
After days of using only a rope, then blank bail shooting, I tried a few shot with the sight and was amazed! Now I just have to stay with it. After having some awesome shots, its easy to get excited and get forgetful!

Thanks so much GRIV


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## BigBird1 (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm another that's been impressed with GRIV's posts for some time now. When I saw that GRIV left Martin a couple years ago and went to Copper John where he helped with new release designs for Stan, I figured I'd have to try out some new Stans. Well I'm here to tell you that I also had severe target panic and worked for months and months trying different BT releases using GRIV's recommended techiques to cure it.
Thanks to the AT classified, I've bought and sold just about every one currently made from Scott, Carter, TruBall and even Zenith. The Stan MagMicro Trio has by far been the best for me. The key was reading a thread on AT where someone recommended using a short release rope with a string loop. The small release rope combined with the micro adjustment capability makes a HUGE difference. Now, whenever I have any problem with punching my Stan Super X thumb release, which I use for 3D and hunting, I merely go back to the MagMicro and practice dynamic tension. Thanks so much GRIV not only for your excellent AT posts but also for designing releases that are so awesome.


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## Prodigyoutdoors (Jul 3, 2005)

if you want go his new site... www.archerylive.com


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## archery4me (Dec 28, 2006)

Yeah griv got banned from here, you can find him and talk with him about www.archerylive.com


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

Time to bring this to the top again...


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## mobowhntr (Jan 29, 2005)

Thanks for the info.


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

ttt


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

ttt


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## FNShtr (Sep 4, 2007)

Contagious Target Panic

I never had target panic until I started shooting 3-D on a regular basis with a guy who had a bad case of target panic. Over time, I began to notice myself increasingly flinching as I sighted in and got ready to release. The more I shot with him, the worse the flinching became until I recognized I had learned his target panic. By watching him while he was shooting, my brain was unconsciously absorbing his habit. Nothing he has done has alleviated his bad target panic. I tried looking away when he shot, but the association of target panic was still there just by being with him. I finally and reluctantly decided I would no longer shoot with him. It's taken a couple of months of shooting by myself and working hard on regaining my form and follow through, but my acquired target panic is nearly gone. The cure, in this case, started by avoiding shooting with a guy who has bad target panic, and who refuses to help himself. I found this a tough choice, but I'm glad I did it.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

BowTech Dave said:


> Griv,
> 
> I must say that I have enjoyed reading your post on target panic. I have one question though... Say I quit shooting tournaments and follow these steps to be free of target panic, can I still go hunting or do I need to quit all together? I do shoot a lot and I do have target panic. I too have utilized different releases in hopes of curing it, but that hasn't worked. I want to get better, but if I follow this program it will take me right through hunting season and I gotta hunt!
> 
> ...


You can totally hunt! If you start now and don't skip any steps you will be as good as new way before hunting season. Good luck and if you have any questions along the way just let me know. I am here to help.


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## JUMPMAN (Jun 5, 2005)

GRIV said:


> You can totally hunt! If you start now and don't skip any steps you will be as good as new way before hunting season. Good luck and if you have any questions along the way just let me know. I am here to help.


Welcome back Griv...alot of knowledge here people...:thumb:


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## drtnshtr (Jan 20, 2003)

GRIV said:


> You can totally hunt! If you start now and don't skip any steps you will be as good as new way before hunting season. Good luck and if you have any questions along the way just let me know. I am here to help.


GRIV back on AT? WOW welcome back over here dude. sweeeeeet


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## NockOn (Feb 24, 2003)

Didn't think this would ever happened Welcome back to AT!!!


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## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

*One of the happiest days I've had in a while...*

was just the other day when I noticed the BANNED was gone for GRIV's profile!

Welcome back again!!

To all the new ATer's out there...if you have a guestion about shot execution, tuning, mental game, target panic, ...etc Just ask. GRIV is a wealth of knowledge!!

Not to mention a really great guy!


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Thanks Jim!:embara:


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## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

Awwww shucks i made you blush:set1_rolf2:


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I got a bit nauseated just reading the thread title. The first time I read this thread I was a happy and calm archer.................... it seems so long ago.:embara:


I glad to see they've paroled GRIV but I'm not so sure about that other guy!


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> I got a bit nauseated just reading the thread title. The first time I read this thread I was a happy and calm archer.................... it seems so long ago.:embara:
> 
> 
> I glad to see they've paroled GRIV but I'm not so sure about that other guy!


HEHE are you saying you are not happy and calm now? and.. who's the other guy?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

GRIV said:


> HEHE are you saying you are not happy and calm now? and.. who's the other guy?


I'm personally OK enough but the archer part has only recently been down graded from nut case to erratic! This is my last time opening this thread, my draw arm locks up just reading the thread title................I had to type with my nose for the last sentence!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> I'm personally OK enough but the archer part has only recently been down graded from nut case to erratic! This is my last time opening this thread, my draw arm locks up just reading the thread title................I had to type with my nose for the last sentence!


Stop fighting it....I have already told you how to fix your issues. You focus and worry about the wrong stuff....

GRIV he is hard headed....


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> I'm personally OK enough but the archer part has only recently been down graded from nut case to erratic! This is my last time opening this thread, my draw arm locks up just reading the thread title................I had to type with my nose for the last sentence!


HA! now that's funny. Well send me a PM or start a new thread you can stand to open and maybe we can make some progress.


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## CoppertoneSPF15 (Mar 14, 2006)

Good to see you back on AT Griv.


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## JHeuvel (Nov 6, 2003)

GRIV said:


> I have gotten tons of target panic and shot execution questions lately now that everyone is headed back to the indoor range. I thought I would take a second and outline my thoughts on target panic and how I cured myself and helped others.
> 
> First of all, it is not caused by the release or what type of sight or aiming reticle you use. Changing release styles to a Stan style (triggerless), pinky, or middle finger activated release is only the first step. By changing the release you have a chance to train yourself with a new and hopefully correct habit. But, you have to treat the root of the issue to be totally free.
> 
> ...



And there is no chance that a small reticle that shows movement more will at amplify this?


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

CoppertoneSPF15 said:


> Good to see you back on AT Griv.


Yes for sure! x2


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> Stop fighting it....I have already told you how to fix your issues. You focus and worry about the wrong stuff....
> 
> GRIV he is hard headed....


.........and you are a quitter! 



GRIV said:


> HA! now that's funny. Well send me a PM or start a new thread you can stand to open and maybe we can make some progress.


I'm sure you can help......... I've read quite a bit of your stuff. I'm on the road to recovery. I'm focusing on a shot routine and not "thinking" about results. I'm thinking that once I can get in a "zone" again I'll be able to execute without any or at least controllable "yips" and then be able to work on improving the components of a good shot which will lead to more confidence............. I shot a couple 55+ "X" 5 spot games and a couple of 640+ Lancaster scoring games this past indoor season but if I didn't start off calmly shooting well I could shoot a 298 45 or a 620 very easily and did so frequently.

:wink: Just call me a recovering head case............................. that can still whip the B'Ho!


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

Grip it and Rip it!


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

JHeuvel said:


> And there is no chance that a small reticle that shows movement more will at amplify this?


Yeah. I would say that a small reticle does amplify movement and will make it harder to feel steady enough to shoot. However once you break the connection between sight movement and shot execution, it won't matter. You will be able to establish your range of motion, center it, and shoot in spite of sight movement. Your range of motion will give you your group size. Later through stabilization changes, form and alignment changes, and tuning, you can shrink your range in order to tighten groups.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> :wink: Just call me a recovering head case............................. that can still whip the B'Ho!


No I'll have to ask you to set your sights for higher successes. Setting your goals too low can cause a delay in your development. hehe J/K


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

GRIV said:


> No I'll have to ask you to set your sights for higher successes. Setting your goals too low can cause a delay in your development. hehe J/K


Don't let him fool ya GRIV.....with the amount I shot indoors this year....if he didn't beat me he needs to retire. 

But outdoors....he is still skeered to come play with us that shoot past the hunter class stakes outside. Why...cuz he would get his dog walked


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> .........and you are a quitter!
> 
> :wink: Just call me a recovering head case............................. that can still whip the B'Ho!


What did I quit :noidea: other then that *THING * that I sold you


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Here is a little more that may help. In the first post I talked about the Morin Trainer or a shooting string. I have just put together a little clip to show it in action and a visual demonstration of what I am talking about. I hope it helps you guys along. This clip is an excerpt from my top selling DVD "professional form and shot execution techniques" 

A little more about the trainer. 











The Morin Trainer is one of the coolest tools I have seen come along in a while. When I was working through my own target panic, I just used a simple piece of string. The string was great to work out the feel of the shot and memorize the action it took to make my release fire with the least amount of thought and hand action. However the string didn’t feel close enough to the bow for me to totally reprogram my style. I always had a pretty steep learning curve and break in time with the bow in order to transfer the feel. 

The Morin Trainer is elastic and allows the shot to feel more dynamic. Within the elastic section there is a stop cord that limits the draw of the elastic. It feels just like a nice hard wall on the bow. The Trainer allows multiple repetitions in order to program, improve, and simplify your shot execution technique. It also allows shooters to maintain the muscular feel between the mental shot execution and the actual release of the shot. It helps you activate and feel the proper muscle groups to get the most out of your shot.

Once you have the right shot feel and have settled on your style you can repeat, repeat, repeat. Professional musicians, Gymnasts, Golfers, any type of individual performance activity must have a firm and broad foundation of skill in order to be the most they can be. Repetition and the act of over-learning basic performance skills is the way Pros excel in archery.

Archery is a single shot combined with the art of standing still, and being still. The Morin Trainer is a great tool to get started. 

Here is an excerpt from my top selling DVD “Professional Form and Shot Execution Techniques”. It shows the Morin Trainer in action and gives some great tips on how to create and manage your own release aid technique. 

You can get the full DVD and the Morin Trainer at GRIVTech.com

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qkJ2oDZrRI


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

JHuvel - 

Yes, a smaller dot will show more movement. Usually lower power or just keeping the sight closer to the bow can help counteract that. However farther away from the bow is technically more accurate.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

hunter54 said:


> Hey Bowtech, I know GRIV´S article is good and thorough, I even posted it on my website. However, I think one other good Idea to try also to stop target panic almost immediately.
> Focus on your form not the results. Target panic is caused because you want to hit the target more so than you want or care about making a good shot! If you only focus on making a good shot, from start to finish, then the target panic will go away almost immediately.
> IMHO.


Amen to that. However, the cure is easy but it's not magic. It takes time and dedication to reprogram yourself to see things from a different angle. The trainer really helps to reprogram that form and reset your expectation of the shot.


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## 76_Bronco (Sep 20, 2009)

My name is Greg, and I'm a recovering TP-er. It's odd that I joined this forum today, and ran across this post by accident. Great read by the way. About 6 weeks ago I decided to do something about my TP and started surfing the web, but I didn't know what to search for, and thought I was the only person with a problem. So I Googled "trigger punching" and found an artical about TP written by Jay Kidwell. I followed his technique, but would still find myself punching that trigger ever so often. So I purchased a release about 3 weeks ago made by HAA "little pull tension LP3". The instructions said to bale shoot at close distances for at least 30 shots to get the feel of it. I love the release, and I can now get 4" groups at 40 yards consistently. With my old Tru-Fire, it was like I couldn't lift my bow up enough to get my site aligned with the target, so I would yank it up and punch the trigger at the same time. Not anymore, I am able to aquire my target, and release when I'm ready, and all with good form. But there is a problem, bow season is 25 days away, and this release is too noisy for hunting. So I guess what I'm trying to ask is, since TP is as much mental as it is learned, do you think it's possible to swap back to my Tru-Fire in a couple of weeks without picking up those bad habits again? Also, are there any other back tension releases out there with the wrist strap like the "little pull" yet quiet enough to hunt with?


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

You can easily move your new technique over to the old release. Now that you have learned how to aim and wait for the proper execution to work, the old release will probably shoot pretty well.... HOWEVER - you can't just pick up the old release and go flailing away with it. You need to Use your shooting string, blank bale and work your way back to 20 just as you did with your new release. Take a second look at the original posts in this topic and use these techniques to bring your old release back into play.


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## Maddux99 (Nov 10, 2009)

Thanks for the information in this thread Griv! I am new to AT, as this is my first post, as well as fairly new to archery also. I started shooting compounds about 15 years ago, but got out of the sport completely until recently. I have been shooting a new bow for a couple of months now, and been having problems with consistency. The bow I have is said by many to be the "best shooting" bow on the market, so I thought I just really sucked at archery, until the guy at my pro shop watched me shoot a few weeks ago and told me that I had target panic. He tried to help me with it, with no real improvement, but your description in the first post explains exactly what I've been doing wrong and now I know and understand what my problem is and what I need to do to begin fixing it.:smile::thumbs_up


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## RiverMan (Jun 13, 2004)

I have had TP for 25 years or longer and tried everything to cure it........holding on the target, standing close to the target, shooting with my eyes closed, etc. etc. I bought several books on dealing with TP............still nothing worked. Finally I bought a back tension release like the one BB posted a picture of above and it helped alot! Shoot a BT for months and you will easily be able to hold on target again. It works. 

RM


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## whiskeyJack (Apr 25, 2007)

GRIV said:


> I have gotten tons of target panic and shot execution questions lately now that everyone is headed back to the indoor range. I thought I would take a second and outline my thoughts on target panic and how I cured myself and helped others.
> 
> First of all, it is not caused by the release or what type of sight or aiming reticle you use. Changing release styles to a Stan style (triggerless), pinky, or middle finger activated release is only the first step. By changing the release you have a chance to train yourself with a new and hopefully correct habit. But, you have to treat the root of the issue to be totally free.
> 
> ...


Good advice, good post
thanks


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

I am trying to coach a youngster through this........if you are suffering-READ!

This is great.


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## jjmorrisjr (Feb 8, 2005)

Great post!! Thanks GRIV.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Well, I just read all 4 pages of this thread after realizing this morning that my TP is getting worse. I am now on a mission to fix it, but the only problem is that I was planning on shooting field archery for the first time this season and the first shoot is this weekend. So, now I need to decide if I am going to skip 2 months of field, or try and fix the problem while still shooting. All I can say is that TP is the perfect abbreviation for target panic, because target panic and toilet paper are both things I would like to wipe my @&& with!


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## s.OH_bowhunter (Jun 14, 2011)

I know this is an old post, but I think it needs to come back to the top..Great thread


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## VICECIV (Mar 28, 2011)

Good post Griv.


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## ArchersParadox (May 12, 2005)

> ...Now it’s been about 6 weeks and you should be ready to shoot your first shots....



..LOVE this quote from THE GRIV MAN.......:shade:


..how many guys and gals are willing to "practice" correct shot execution for 6 weeks before "letting loose" that FIRST arrow......:mg:

...yup.....most of today's archers are not that patient and/or need "instant gratification".....:mg:


....personally....it took me 4 weeks back in 2005....of blank bailing before I FELT 'the shot sequence'....never looked back since....:shade:


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## ArchersParadox (May 12, 2005)

..here's a COOL tip I picked up a few years ago concerning back tension and "the feeling"....


..try this.....tie a cord to a immovable vertical object [pole or a tree].......grab the loose end with your drawing hand and hit your anchor position.....now PULL HARD with your back muscles.....

.......CLOSE YOUR EYES while still PULLING......

..have a friend take a pair of scissors and CUT the cord.......


......notice......that FEELING did not involve your trigger finger......


...what should have happened is plainly obvious.......put that in practice is another story....

...ohh..what a feeling!!!


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## tp1ovr (Aug 1, 2011)

this is good info ill try it thank you.


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## McChesney (Jan 5, 2009)

Deezlin said:


> Another great posting!!! Thanks, GRIV


Yes, thank you!


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## elitepureman1 (Jun 23, 2011)

ttt


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## whitetail3131 (Mar 14, 2011)

great post for all the shooters with target panic


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## RWARCHER11 (Mar 21, 2012)

Great read! Trying to work through this issue myself and this has been very helpful!


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## DMAX-HD (Jan 30, 2005)

This thread should be a sticky. Awesome post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dylanchatch (Jun 14, 2021)

I seem to get target panic when I start to shoot a lot, rather than when I’m not shooting very often. Glad I saw this thread to try a few techniques. Thanks!


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## golfernash (Feb 6, 2007)

Great!


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