# Comparing the Regions Archery Tour to the IBO....



## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

How about, shoots in NY , Pa and Ohio? Hope they can pull that off next year. That will wake up the ibo.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

stoz said:


> How about, shoots in NY , Pa and Ohio? Hope they can pull that off next year. That will wake up the ibo.


shhh...let 'em sleep.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

stoz said:


> How about, shoots in NY , Pa and Ohio? Hope they can pull that off next year. That will wake up the ibo.


Its going to expand.....but the best way to ensure it does was to support them the first year

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

My wife isn't that serious about archery, went with me to the Regions Event this weekend and said WOOOOOOO, when we going to the next one of them. Now she wants to buy a pop up camper and be right there to take in all the Regions activities. I just know she went with me to the IBO in Erie this year and she said she would never go back to that (Crap Hole) nicely said.
Like Gregg said, your on an even playing field. Really hard for someone to cheat.You shoot with your peers under the same weather conditions and you can actually see most of them. Kind of fun ribbing each other as we pass bye. Water stations within sight all over. Range officals all over. Lots of others activites like sims,pop up shootoffs ,team event and all. Then looking at the paybacks already.I looked at the IBO Ohio Master Senior class which I shoot,lots of shooters and 1st got $126. There was only 11 or 12 of us in Super Senior at regions and 1st got $156 and I got $102 for 2nd. if we would of had the numbers that the IBO had at Ohio, the payday would of been very nice. Vendor area was very nice. Its just a class act.......


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

Congrats on your 2nd place finish Gary .

I hope I can make a couple of them next year .


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

John-in-VA said:


> Congrats on your 2nd place finish Gary .
> 
> I hope I can make a couple of them next year .


Thanks John, I would think Virginia sure would be a nice place to have a Regions and still close enough for me to make that one( in our POP UP Camper) .Think I will use my S.S. check to just get a nice room--ha ha. Virginia is such a pretty place.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

Congrats Gary and to Joe MCClusky as well. That man put on a 12 ring clinic! Not too bad for an old fart. :shade:


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

carlosii said:


> shhh...let 'em sleep.


i agree let them sleep i have shot IBO for the last 3 years or so and am done with it.
momma and i shot our first ASA in London and loved it can't wait to shoot a Regions.
hell at London i saw more Range officials in one day than i had seen in 3-4 years of shooting the triple crowns in IBO.actually just seeing 1 official would have been more than i had seen in IBO


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

GreggWNY said:


> Comparison of Regions to the IBO??
> 
> There is none. After shooting Regions this weekend all I heard was how much better and more enjoyable the ASA/Regions format was, For many people who are regular IBO shooters this was their first taste of:
> 
> ...


Nicely said Greg, thanks for the good arrows this weekend it was nice shooting after a guy who can really shoot his bow. You should have stayed for the closings your picture would have looked good on the podium.

Couple things I would like to add is for regions to either have a speed limit or not have a speed limit not go both ways. Too many classes,not all the shooters signed up for the right class because they were misled from the region sign up booth. One guy in our group should have been placed in senior hunter class with his setup but neither the signup folks nor himself new the difference so he shot an unlimited class with restrictive equipment. These are growing pains which will work them self out, the real positive is that it was a really good shoot put on by folks who really cared for the shooters. GOOD JOB WARREN AND REGIONS. THANKS...


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

I wish I could have made the one in NC .Only about 4 hr from my place .

We use to have the ASA shoot at the lake ,I really miss that one .It was only about 35 min from my front door .

How was the attendance in Warren, PA ?


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

GreggWNY said:


> Congrats Gary and to Joe MCClusky as well. That man put on a 12 ring clinic! Not too bad for an old fart. :shade:


I thought maybe I was possibly catching old Joe on the 2nd day but he was still pouring it on.It was his day. Joe and I missed you on the podium with your 3rd place finish.Picture looks a little unbalanced. Besides that the podium was so high we had to help each other up and down--ha ha.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

Sorry I missed the podium and photos. I was traveling with someone who had to be back home on a deadline and it would have been a long walk back. :mg:


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## arrowblaster (Feb 9, 2004)

stoz said:


> How about, shoots in NY , Pa and Ohio? Hope they can pull that off next year. That will wake up the ibo.


+1. I'd try it, with enough notice.


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## JHolling (Jan 25, 2005)

After shooting this and it being my first experience with an ASA style shoot I would say that it was far more enjoyable than any IBO I've ever been to.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

JHolling said:


> After shooting this and it being my first experience with an ASA style shoot I would say that it was far more enjoyable than any IBO I've ever been to.


ASA format is a lot more user friendly for the shooters and the vendors.... It's a win win for all..


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)




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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

draw29 said:


> My wife isn't that serious about archery, went with me to the Regions Event this weekend and said WOOOOOOO, when we going to the next one of them. Now she wants to buy a pop up camper and be right there to take in all the Regions activities. I just know she went with me to the IBO in Erie this year and she said she would never go back to that (Crap Hole) nicely said.
> Like Gregg said, your on an even playing field. Really hard for someone to cheat.You shoot with your peers under the same weather conditions and you can actually see most of them. Kind of fun ribbing each other as we pass bye. Water stations within sight all over. Range officals all over. Lots of others activites like sims,pop up shootoffs ,team event and all. Then looking at the paybacks already.I looked at the IBO Ohio Master Senior class which I shoot,lots of shooters and 1st got $126. *There was only 11 or 12 of us in Super Senior at regions and 1st got $156 and I got $102 for 2nd. *if we would of had the numbers that the IBO had at Ohio, the payday would of been very nice. Vendor area was very nice. Its just a class act.......


Not really telling me a whole lot. I mean, people complain of the small paychecks from the ASA because they pay back so far. So how far back does Regions and IBO payback? And then the less number of shooters the payback is greater. Like is state events, X number in class and you get it all. Go over X number in class and your earnings are just a bit more and the more in class the less percentage you get.

What 11 or 12 in class at Regions and that kind of payback? Sure some padding wasn't in place to make things look better than it was? Hey, I'm just looking at the numbers.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

John-in-VA said:


> I wish I could have made the one in NC .Only about 4 hr from my place .
> 
> We use to have the ASA shoot at the lake ,I really miss that one .It was only about 35 min from my front door .
> 
> How was the attendance in Warren, PA ?


Not 100% sure on the attendance John. Seemed like there was a lot of guys running around . I heard 2nd hand that in the 200 range for the Saturday and sunday event. I don't think that was a bad start. our 1st year of Camo Cares we couldn't fill the range, the word got out and we filled 2 ranges the 2nd year and could probally fill 4 or 5 ranges now if we had the animals to do it. If there is 3 events to go to that are within reason for driving, I will be attending Regions with all my buddies next year for sure. I am sure the word will get out.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

I have been done with IBO for about 2 years now......After I sat and waited for 1hr to shoot my first target I decided that was plenty for me!


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> Not really telling me a whole lot. I mean, people complain of the small paychecks from the ASA because they pay back so far. So how far back does Regions and IBO payback? And then the less number of shooters the payback is greater. Like is state events, X number in class and you get it all. Go over X number in class and your earnings are just a bit more and the more in class the less percentage you get.
> 
> What 11 or 12 in class at Regions and that kind of payback? Sure some padding wasn't in place to make things look better than it was? Hey, I'm just looking at the numbers.


Regions pay schedule is listed as 70% payback to 20% of the class. No padding required. It is similar to the ASA's pay schedule.


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## Cjtwig (Jun 20, 2013)

I agree 100 percent with you Greg,on the Region shoot. Everybody I talked to said the same thing how nice the shoot was. One thing that Regions don't do is charge the shooters a transferring of target fee like the IBO does to all the shooters.It was also nice to see an official on the course asking us if we needed anything or anything they could do to make this a success. I also agree with you to Gary on the pay out for the classes, we had 3 shooters in male unlimited and the kid that won are class got more money shooting this class in Regions then what he would've got if he was shooting in the MBR class in the IBO which has about 60 shooters. Congratulation Tim for winning are class your fun guy to shoot with hope to shoot with ya more. I'm planning on shooting more Region tournaments next and dropping the IBO cause the Region tournaments are a lot more fun period. Keep up the good work Regions you got one more on your side


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## pahunter1980 (Oct 17, 2010)

JHolling said:


> After shooting this and it being my first experience with an ASA style shoot I would say that it was far more enjoyable than any IBO I've ever been to.


x2 was the same for me cant wait for next year


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

If they want to have a no speed limit class so people can shoot whatever they want that is great but 5 grains per pound is not fair for everyone.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

The 5 grain per pound is basically just an industry standard for safety. How else would you specify no speed limit and still maintain a safety factor? As far as the format; Gregg pretty much covered it. Regions intent was to offer the best format in 3-d to those in the areas that don't have it. I don't believe they want to see anything bad for any other org, if the IBO is sinking it is because of years of neglecting to address the same issues over and over. The shooters in the north were sort of stuck in their options. Now some folks got a taste of how nice of a weekend these events can really be. Shoot your bow all weekend instead of 40 arrows and go home. Have nice friendly staff asking shooters what they can do to make things even better next time. Great paybacks. Vendors who are fully behind the organization and not being gouged by ridiculous set up fees. Officials on every course, fair start times for all. Classes start and finish within minutes of each other and in a timely manner. Never heard anyone say they set their sight for over max yardage but did have tough courses. 20 practice 3-d targets in the woods, and not all at 25 yards. I could keep going but if you were there you already know and I can assume I will see all of you and more at the next Regions. It was fun.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

jimb said:


> If they want to have a no speed limit class so people can shoot whatever they want that is great but 5 grains per pound is not fair for everyone.


Like hrtlnd164 noted, industrial standard. Look under the IBO rules. You can shoot less than 5 grs per pound of draw weight, but then regulated to 280 fps.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

jimb said:


> If they want to have a no speed limit class so people can shoot whatever they want that is great but 5 grains per pound is not fair for everyone.


There is no way to make it truly fair. Even with a speed limit the guys with long draws have an advantage. They can shoot a more forgiving bow with a heavy more stable arrow than someone with a 26" draw. And that heavy arrow is more likely to plow its way into a crowded 12 ring and push your arrow out. Some people are just naturally better shots, they are calmer and more confident. Those are huge advantages, how do you take that into account to make it "fair". If you are going to win consistently you don't worry about what the competition is doing or what they are shooting. You play your own game on your terms. It's you against the course, not the other shooters. 
Now back to Regions! This was a great shoot and anybody who didn't go missed out. I am looking forward to shooting them again next year and hope there are more shoots within driving distance for us. My wife and son enjoyed it as much as I did and both said they prefer it to the IBO format. And the people were terrific, no shooters got made because of waiting or long walks. As Burley Hall said, "this needed to be done."


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## Wwwvarchery (Apr 23, 2013)

I agree with everyone. The Regions shoot was great, and if they are going to make it the shooters are going to have to support it, I have always been an IBO shooter but the ASA and Regions are looking better all the time. I know several semi pros are going to make the change next year


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## PAFD ARCHER (Jan 31, 2008)

i as well as my wife have never had so much fun in a wekend of shooting. we shot alot of ibo shoots over the last 5 or 6 years and i have never been so impressed with a shoot. i came to this completely not ready to shoot. last time i looked at foam targets was a month ago. i didnt shoot a great score,shot alot of 11's but i did try for the twelve ring on some targets i shouldnt have. this format of shooting is way diffrent than ibo. i loved the fact there where water stations all over the place. range officals to have explain a few things to us new shooters to this format. got to shoot on the same ranges as the senior and open pros. had some good conversation with a few of them. my wife qualified for the hunter class popup shootoff and won some awesome prizes and also won her class. we have never been so impressed with how helpful the regions people were. guys giving people rides on golf karts out to there ranges that got late starts. just too many positives to list. i have nothing bad to say as well as alot of diehard ibo shooters. some may have not liked it but i as well as many are going to push this tour. also wanna get as many of these shoots under my belt next as i know this tour is going to take off. a+ for regions archery tour


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## TerryJr (Mar 16, 2004)

Wwwvarchery said:


> I agree with everyone. The Regions shoot was great, and if they are going to make it the shooters are going to have to support it, I have always been an IBO shooter but the ASA and Regions are looking better all the time. I know several semi pros are going to make the change next year


I've already made my mind up to go to ASA and Regions next year. Can't wait!!
Terry Jr


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Sonny difference in Regions payback to IBO is this- Regions entry $40(I think) with 70% to the shooters 20% deep in the field IBO $37 entry plus an optional $15/shooter 20% deep to the field(none of entry goes to shooters only $15 optional money does). So mathematically speaking with 12 shooters at Regions the pot would have been worth $336 at IBO with 12 shooters getting in the optional money the pot would have been $180. So for 1.3 times the entry you could win 46.5% less money. Hope this helps.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

lets not forget there numbers have not been anywhere near the ibo triple crown numbers so I don't buy the no wait argument. Also you would figure if you only have 100+ or - shooters like the 1st couple you would think they'd let people shoot 40 in one day. Like I've said before, i'm hearing nothing but positive things. I may give them but then I can't even seem to make it to the big ibo shoots either.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

jimb said:


> If they want to have a no speed limit class so people can shoot whatever they want that is great but 5 grains per pound is not fair for everyone.


as my boss use to say "life's not fair" I shoot some IBO events and there are guys that shoot 45 fps faster than me and I'm ok with that. The only way to "Make it fair" is for everyone to shoot as slow as the slowest shooter.


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

What are they doing to protect bowhunting? 


Bubba Dean said:


> Sonny difference in Regions payback to IBO is this- Regions entry $40(I think) with 70% to the shooters 20% deep in the field IBO $37 entry plus an optional $15/shooter 20% deep to the field(none of entry goes to shooters only $15 optional money does). So mathematically speaking with 12 shooters at Regions the pot would have been worth $336 at IBO with 12 shooters getting in the optional money the pot would have been $180. So for 1.3 times the entry you could win 46.5% less money. Hope this helps.


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## archerydude21 (Sep 20, 2010)

What is who doing to protect bow hunting?


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

hoytxcutter said:


> What are they doing to protect bowhunting?


You should ask the IBO that question. Let me know the answer if you can find one.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

hoytxcutter.....did you mean "what is the IBO doing to protect bowhunting?" They seem to be the ones claiming that promise...and I didn't see anything in their financials that proved that to be the truth.

Either way, IBO compared to regions on a tournament level is really no comparison at all. I say that after 20+yrs of shooting IBO and one tournament with Regions.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

Whats that sound I hear in the near distance? Is it thunder, a bowling ball rolling along, a steam roller? Nope it's the Region Tour coming at you like a freight train. Like a runaway train thundering down a mountain side, a organizer willing and able to make adjustments on the fly, willing to listen to everybody there. It's giving the shooters a level playing field with good (70%) payback, vendors giving 100% support even though knowing this first year they won't be making much in sales. The shooters and vendors that did attend any or all of the Regions events my hat is off to you. This is epecially for Dick his wife Connie, sons, daughter-in-laws and all his staff, congratulations on successfully launching Regions Pro-Am Tour this year. The shooters thank-you for giving us a option and a opportunity to shoot a great type event. To all the vendors again thank-you, YOU will be seeing my money for standing behind Dick!!!
Thank you
Rudy Abersold


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

hoytxcutter said:


> What are they doing to protect bowhunting?


Seriously, the IBO is a supposedly a non-profit organization and their tax records are public information. Take some time and research how much a magazine ad every year costs cuz that's about the extent of what they have done. I am sorry you missed this shoot because you couldn't shoot it in 1 day but try it before you knock it please. I would think that anyone who likes 3-d would enjoy it.


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

hoytxcutter said:


> What are they doing to protect bowhunting?


Why would this be the big concern at a "target" competition? I believe in protecting the rights of hunters but the wife and I only target shoot.our main concern at these shoots is having fun and being safe.it doesn't always have to be about a "cause".


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## bowpro34 (Jun 17, 2007)

nochance said:


> lets not forget there numbers have not been anywhere near the ibo triple crown numbers so I don't buy the no wait argument. Also you would figure if you only have 100+ or - shooters like the 1st couple you would think they'd let people shoot 40 in one day. Like I've said before, i'm hearing nothing but positive things. I may give them but then I can't even seem to make it to the big ibo shoots either.


I love the shotgun start, mixed groups and all the fairness ASA and Regions has. I had a great time and hoping for more shoots in the area. If you need to shoot them all in one day then this shoot is not for you. Sounds like IBO would work best for your needs. As for my preference, a fun filled weekend full of events like the Pro/Am Team Shoot, Known Distance Shoot, Long Shot, and Pop Ups is right up my alley. I will however guarantee 2 things. IBO numbers WILL continue to decline next year and Regions will be on the rise. I don't think you could ask a brand new organization to have triple crown numbers out of the gate. 

I listened with my own ears as the IBO president joked about all the problems at Marengo and he could not care less. "It's not going to go smoothly. These are volunteers" Marcum said with a chuckle. At Regions I was asked multiple times by Dick and Mr. Coffee what they could do better to serve me. I am blown away by their generosity and true customer service skills. I don't care if Regions gets 20 shooters next year - I'll be one of them.


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## daleg (Jan 1, 2008)

NYS REP said:


> Whats that sound I hear in the near distance? Is it thunder, a bowling ball rolling along, a steam roller? Nope it's the Region Tour coming at you like a freight train. Like a runaway train thundering down a mountain side, a organizer willing and able to make adjustments on the fly, willing to listen to everybody there. It's giving the shooters a level playing field with good (70%) payback, vendors giving 100% support even though knowing this first year they won't be making much in sales. The shooters and vendors that did attend any or all of the Regions events my hat is off to you. This is epecially for Dick his wife Connie, sons, daughter-in-laws and all his staff, congratulations on successfully launching Regions Pro-Am Tour this year. The shooters thank-you for giving us a option and a opportunity to shoot a great type event. To all the vendors again thank-you, YOU will be seeing my money for standing behind Dick!!!
> Thank you
> Rudy Abersold


. Well put Rudy .

Jeff Galletta


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

nochance said:


> as my boss use to say "life's not fair" I shoot some IBO events and there are guys that shoot 45 fps faster than me and I'm ok with that. The only way to "Make it fair" is for everyone to shoot as slow as the slowest shooter.


It may not be totally fair but it is closer


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## juke711 (Jun 9, 2012)

Regions is definately for the shooters...great event great people...hunters shoot for money unlike ibo you shoot to get bumped out and move into a class u may not want to shoot...recruit everybody you can to REGIONS


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## PETeach (Nov 17, 2007)

Actually putting a speed limit effects the short draw guys just as much as unlimited speed. Yes the longer draw length shooters can get more speed but they can also get a much heavier arrow to go 290. Its still an advantage. I know cuz I have a 28.5 inch draw and I shoot with friends that have 31 and 32 inch draw lengths. If I need a 350 grain to go 290 and a 32 inch draw length can use a 400 grain arrow that's a huge advantage. Think of it this way if I wanted you to hit a target 50 yards away and gave you a choice of a whiffle ball or a baseball which would you pick? Remember they both come out at 290. I say this cuz if they had advertised the extreme classes better I probably would have gone but I didn't know those classes existed until it was too late. I may next year since they have those classes but If they do away with them I won't. I do not have an ASA set up cuz they are too far and I am not changing it for one shoot. I hope they keep the extreme classes.
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


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## klshooter (Feb 3, 2005)

To all the guys that would like to shoot 40 in one day give it time once regions excedes capacity they will then have classes that will have to shoot 40 in one day, this happens in a few classes in the ASA though every one I know that shoots these classes gets mad when this happens but if u want this show up help it grow and youll be able to shoot 40 in a day. And heres another idea go to a shoot and enjoy yourself I enjoy shooting my bow all week end beats the hell out of work Ive done the whole hurry out shoot 40 in one day rush home I usually shot like crap lifes too short to be in a hurry all the time go regions!


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## klshooter (Feb 3, 2005)

What's more forgiving an arrow on a string for 31" or arrow on a string for 26" lol


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## Wazz13 (Oct 4, 2009)

Fantastic shoot! My first experience with this type of format. Love the shotgun start, range officials on the ranges. Made it a point to talk to and thank Dick, Burly, and Dicks right hand man. Pro/AM was a blast. Looking forward to next years Regions shoots. All positive for me. Even looking into a few ASA events for next year.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

bowpro34 said:


> I listened with my own ears as the IBO president joked about all the problems at Marengo and he could not care less. "It's not going to go smoothly. These are volunteers" Marcum said with a chuckle. At Regions I was asked multiple times by Dick and Mr. Coffee what they could do better to serve me. I am blown away by their generosity and true customer service skills. I don't care if Regions gets 20 shooters next year - I'll be one of them.



Well we know Bryan Marcum is the IBO President because it said so right on his shirt :shade: But, we all know the decisions are really being made by the guy with the initials GB...don't we? Either way....it's a good ol'e boys club that will soon be wondering how it all went wrong.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Hoytxcutter- The IBO claims to be protecting your bowhunting rights but where is the proof. It sure isn't showing up in the tax return that was posting on AT a few weeks ago.


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## bmeese21 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bubba Dean said:


> Hoytxcutter- The IBO claims to be protecting your bowhunting rights but where is the proof. It sure isn't showing up in the tax return that was posting on AT a few weeks ago.


Bubba do you have the link for that tax return. I would really like to see it.


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## Bearlee (Dec 24, 2009)

bowpro34 said:


> At Regions I was asked multiple times by Dick and Mr. Coffee what they could do better to serve me. I am blown away by their generosity and true customer service skills. I don't care if Regions gets 20 shooters next year - I'll be one of them.


I think there will be way more than that. When they get the kinks from this year worked out, they will have way more shooters.

Just this last shoot alone because they were willing to change and listen to the archers, they doubled the turnout of the previous shoot.  All the comments I see are positive. Once they post their competition dates, get a website upgrade that is more user friendly, and allows online registration, sponsors will tag on (of which they already have quite a few good ones), and this thing is fixing to skyrocket. VEry well run and considerate people, allowing fair competition, now turn on the TV's when people can watch the shoot down's live (and have posted on the website when and where to find the link via computer, remember not everyone has cable and those that do do not all get the same channels, the internet is world wide baby!) then look out. I am planning on traveling with Regions next year, I am saving now for that.

I think Dick, Aaron, and Shawn (and all of their supporter's including Bubbles haha) have hit the nail on the head. It works really great when you can combine events like music, BBQ and archery! Great product, great people, great archery and great fun.


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

Bearlee said:


> I think there will be way more than that. When they get the kinks from this year worked out, they will have way more shooters.


i know 2 for sure momma and i are wanting to make it to a Regions shoot or two next year.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Bubba Dean said:


> Sonny difference in Regions payback to IBO is this- Regions entry $40(I think) with 70% to the shooters 20% deep in the field IBO $37 entry plus an optional $15/shooter 20% deep to the field(none of entry goes to shooters only $15 optional money does). So mathematically speaking with 12 shooters at Regions the pot would have been worth $336 at IBO with 12 shooters getting in the optional money the pot would have been $180. So for 1.3 times the entry you could win 46.5% less money. Hope this helps.


Much better. Thank you. Always watching that of the ASA when it comes to payouts most want to see ASA change their payouts. Paying back 25 places is a lot, but then the NFAA has their flight system. Kinda the pits when you're at the bottom of Flight A and nothing and the 1st person in Flight B gets a chunk of change or 1st place medal.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

When I handed the range official my score card........wait for it...... he thanked me for coming to shoot. While on the course another range official asked our group if we could suggest any changes for them to consider for the next tournament..... What?? 

This looks like an organization that will do very well serving a previously "under-served" IBO crowd.

I look forward to giving the Regions tournaments my full support next year. Joining guys like hrtlnd164 who helped promote this last tournament will be my way of saying thanks for giving us such a great experience.


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

If regions would set there schedule to the same dates as ibo southern triple crown dates,that would be the end of ibo in the south.


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## McCann (Feb 27, 2005)

nochance said:


> lets not forget there numbers have not been anywhere near the ibo triple crown numbers so I don't buy the no wait argument. Also you would figure if you only have 100+ or - shooters like the 1st couple you would think they'd let people shoot 40 in one day. Like I've said before, i'm hearing nothing but positive things. I may give them but then I can't even seem to make it to the big ibo shoots either.


lets also not forget that the Regions Group is following the tried and true method of the ASA. By all accounts the IBO tourneys are hurry up and wait events. At the ASA/ Regions events with the shot gun start and looped ranges from start to finish for 20 targets you are looking at between 1.5 and 2 hours for upto 130 shooters. In Paris year before last on the K45 range we had right at 130 shooters and finished in less than 2 hours and 15 minutes. That ain't to shabby. 

As far as 40 targets in a day... some classes can do that. If you have a time crunch then call the ASA or Regions office and ask if that is a possibility for the class you are shooting. 3 years ago in Metropolis I shot 40 targets on saturday in the K45 class because of the amount of shooters and the fact that i registered late. There is no doubt in my mind that if presented with enough requests for this both organizations would find a way to make that happen.

When you look at my signature line you will see that I am the Kansas Rep for the ASA. Before I took this position I worked with both organizations. From a club user stand point I can tell you that the ASA is much more user friendly than the IBO. 

Give the Regions group a try

Marc


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Who is the Mr. Coffee that you guys are talking about.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

Mr. Gary Coffee. He is one of the Vendors. I have been shooting since 1995 and he has a table set up at every event I have ever been to. He sells all kind of things related to archery. Super nice guy and a joy to set down and chat with.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

NYS REP said:


> Whats that sound I hear in the near distance? Is it thunder, a bowling ball rolling along, a steam roller? Nope it's the Region Tour coming at you like a freight train. Like a runaway train thundering down a mountain side, a organizer willing and able to make adjustments on the fly, willing to listen to everybody there. It's giving the shooters a level playing field with good (70%) payback, vendors giving 100% support even though knowing this first year they won't be making much in sales. The shooters and vendors that did attend any or all of the Regions events my hat is off to you. This is epecially for Dick his wife Connie, sons, daughter-in-laws and all his staff, congratulations on successfully launching Regions Pro-Am Tour this year. The shooters thank-you for giving us a option and a opportunity to shoot a great type event. To all the vendors again thank-you, YOU will be seeing my money for standing behind Dick!!!
> Thank you
> Rudy Abersold


 Rudy, should be a poet. Best thread yet.


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## hammer head (Nov 23, 2003)

With every one leavening ibo I might win a belt buckle


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## tomah (Aug 15, 2011)

come to California, REGIONS!!! please we beg of you!


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## Spiked2kx (Mar 3, 2013)

Tomah they need to come anywhere out west!!!!!!!


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

hammer head said:


> With every one leavening ibo I might win a belt buckle


Maybe next year the Regions will have buckles instead of plaques.


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

hammer head said:


> With every one leavening ibo I might win a belt buckle


I'd rather have cash
you can keep the belt buckles


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

bsharkey said:


> I'd rather have cash
> you can keep the belt buckles


If you want money you should shoot pro, as an amateur you will never win more than gas money so we do it more for the fun of it...


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Joseph McCluske said:


> If you want money you should shoot pro, as an amateur you will never win more than gas money so we do it more for the fun of it...


You can win more then your gas money.....the lodging and food...if ya win ...it be a free vaca pretty much.  

That is unless they start doing :

Lewis rounds and such...like they do in :
Sporting Clays
and 
Trap / Skeet..

There is where you can win some monies if your a strong winner.


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## 3dn4jc (Jun 25, 2007)

I would love to see a regions shoot somewheres in Va., from Roanoke to Williamsburg.


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

Regions is a class act. With a tweaked ASA format I predict they will take alot if not all of IBO's business. I shot Regions in Anderson , Indiana and it was a great experience. Great job Regions!! :thumb:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

draw29 said:


> Mr. Gary Coffee. He is one of the Vendors. I have been shooting since 1995 and he has a table set up at every event I have ever been to. He sells all kind of things related to archery. Super nice guy and a joy to set down and chat with.


if Mr. Coffee ain't got it, you don't need it. He's Wal-Mart, Bass Pro, Cabelas', and Target of the archery world all rolled into one.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

Thanks Gary, always good for a laugh or too, just check out my score!!! What a blast shooting this weekend. Once I figured out that my yardage meter was correct and not on meters, my execution improved. Again thanks to all those that attended and look for dates and complete rules in the near future. Bring on 2014!!!!


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## gobblemg (Jun 13, 2006)

carlosii said:


> if Mr. Coffee ain't got it, you don't need it. He's Wal-Mart, Bass Pro, Cabelas', and Target of the archery world all rolled into one.


And one of the nicest men you will ever meet.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

draw29 said:


> Mr. Gary Coffee. He is one of the Vendors. I have been shooting since 1995 and he has a table set up at every event I have ever been to. He sells all kind of things related to archery. Super nice guy and a joy to set down and chat with.


He is an absolute gentleman. One of a kind!


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Joseph McCluske said:


> If you want money you should shoot pro, as an amateur you will never win more than gas money so we do it more for the fun of it...


Then you obviously haven't shot any ASA's
You can Win way more than your gas money
And even if it is just gas money it's way more than the IBO will pay you


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

Joseph McCluske said:


> If you want money you should shoot pro, as an amateur you will never win more than gas money so we do it more for the fun of it...


I'm good with gas money.never seen a store that took belt buckles for gas,food,etc


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Can't wait till next year. Hope they have 3 I can drive to easily.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

bubba.....Here ya go...this will tell you everything you want to know where every dollar is spent and shown for:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocument...0910cd4e-9.pdf 

This is the reply to whoever asked for the IBO's tax return


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Bubba Dean said:


> bubba.....Here ya go...this will tell you everything you want to know where every dollar is spent and shown for:
> http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocument...0910cd4e-9.pdf
> 
> This is the reply to whoever asked for the IBO's tax return


Hhhhh....I wonder where ya got this from...lol


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

Although the IBO is pretty unorganized, this is the first year in a long while without ken as president. I expect many changes next year with this new man. It's his first year running things...give it a break. Since Pro and Semi now have shotgun starts, and seem to be very happy with it, I'd expect to see a lot more of it next year.


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

And you tell me, what is so great about being rushed the whole time. I Kentucky was my 3rd ASA of the year and and my 3rd shoot that all we did was get timed all day by the range officials because we had 6 to a group. We waited until 1145 to start, when our shoot time was 11, all because open C has to shoot all 40 Saturday. Then once we get on the range we had 6 to a stake. So the range official followed us the whole course an timed each of us just so we could get out of the way of open C. If you call THAT a 'class act'...I think you need a reality check.


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## archerydude21 (Sep 20, 2010)

SMshootsmathews said:


> Although the IBO is pretty unorganized, this is the first year in a long while without ken as president. I expect many changes next year with this new man. It's his first year running things...give it a break. Since Pro and Semi now have shotgun starts, and seem to be very happy with it, I'd expect to see a lot more of it next year.


I wouldn't say that, exactly. I shoot semi-pro. I think nearly everyone, if not everyone, loves the shotgun start. That being said, I also think that nearly everyone hates the Friday/Saturday shooting. With the new format there is no reason we can't have a Sat./Sun. shotgun start. 10 o'clock first day and 8 o'clock second day, that way you could still have the pro class awards ceremony by 1 or 2. JMO


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

I don't understand that either? But as far as the shotgun start goes...I think eventually the amateur classes will be that way too. I talked to a director in Bedford they said the only reason they weren't at the NTC is because the venues are too big and far apart...and over the three shoots I could see why...there really wasn't a place to have a looped range unless you wanted to shoot it in the field. I just feel like within the next two years or so shotgun starts will be prevalent. I mean we had one at the spring nationals in Georgia...?


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Joseph McCluske said:


> If you want money you should shoot pro, as an amateur you will never win more than gas money so we do it more for the fun of it...


amature wins in ASA is several hundred dollars, what do you drive


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

SMshootsmathews said:


> I don't understand that either? But as far as the shotgun start goes...I think eventually the amateur classes will be that way too. I talked to a director in Bedford they said the only reason they weren't at the NTC is because the venues are too big and far apart...and over the three shoots I could see why...there really wasn't a place to have a looped range unless you wanted to shoot it in the field. I just feel like within the next two years or so shotgun starts will be prevalent. I mean we had one at the spring nationals in Georgia...?


a little to late


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## Chase Hatcher (Jan 30, 2012)

why doesn't regions expand to the central/western region of the us. Instead of having three organizations all confined to one area. Many of us would love to shoot more tournaments without the 10+ hour drives.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Chase Hatcher said:


> why doesn't regions expand to the central/western region of the us. Instead of having three organizations all confined to one area. Many of us would love to shoot more tournaments without the 10+ hour drives.


I don't know where you been....but regions gave what their business plan was going too be months ago....adding events westward over the course of time...


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

SMshootsmathews said:


> Although the IBO is pretty unorganized, this is the first year in a long while without ken as president. I expect many changes next year with this new man. It's his first year running things...*give it a break. Since Pro and Semi now have shotgun starts, and seem to be very happy with it, I'd expect to see a lot more of it next year. *


*

*

Better check the numbers on the Pro Classes...lowest I have ever seen. Why? Because they are not happy and after the meeting at Marengo I get the feeling they don't really care for the new President of the IBO.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

SMshootsmathews said:


> And you tell me, what is so great about being rushed the whole time. I Kentucky was my 3rd ASA of the year and and my 3rd shoot that all we did was get timed all day by the range officials because we had 6 to a group. We waited until 1145 to start, when our shoot time was 11, all because open C has to shoot all 40 Saturday. Then once we get on the range we had 6 to a stake. So the range official followed us the whole course an timed each of us just so we could get out of the way of open C. If you call THAT a 'class act'...I think you need a reality check.


Yeah that sucks having range officials on the course making you go by the rules 
And we had to wait two hours for you to finish
So you wasn't rushed that much


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

SMshootsmathews said:


> And you tell me, what is so great about being rushed the whole time. I Kentucky was my 3rd ASA of the year and and my 3rd shoot that all we did was get timed all day by the range officials because we had 6 to a group. We waited until 1145 to start, when our shoot time was 11, all because open C has to shoot all 40 Saturday. Then once we get on the range we had 6 to a stake. So the range official followed us the whole course an timed each of us just so we could get out of the way of open C. If you call THAT a 'class act'...I think you need a reality check.


Yep, I can see where the IBO may have been better in that situation. You would have sat there for 2 hours getting started and been on the course for 8 hours, but you wouldn't have been rushed!! I thought with the record numbers in London that they handled it pretty well.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

GreggWNY is right on the money. Mr IBO president seems to be carrying the same "legend in his own mind" gene that his predecessor had. Arrogance like that should not be rewarded. If you're waiting for big change in the IBO I'd guess it's coming...but not from the leadership and not for the benefit of the shooters who finance the organization. I'd predict that it will be sponsors and shooters finding other venues to participate in.


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

wpk said:


> Yeah that sucks having range officials on the course making you go by the rules
> And we had to wait two hours for you to finish
> So you wasn't rushed that much


i agree i would rather have a range official keeping time then to have 4-5 groups of shooters behind me bi7ching.at some of our local shoots we have had groups start at 9am and not walk of a 30 target course until 4pm thats 2.3 hrs per 10 targets or 9 hrs for 40.to long IMO


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

Speaking of sponsors...it will be interesting to see if any of the big ones jump ship and quit the IBO. I get the feeling it's going to happen after the Worlds.


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

When a range official is talking to you about how long you're taking DURING YOUR SHOT, I have a problem with it. I never said IBO was some heaven sent organization, but the ASA isn't either.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

SMshootsmathews said:


> When a range official is talking to you about how long you're taking DURING YOUR SHOT, I have a problem with it. I never said IBO was some heaven sent organization, but the ASA isn't either.


And that's a sign that you're taking too long
That's what they're supposed to do


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

How can you complain about them abiding by the rules


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

SMshootsmathews said:


> When a range official is talking to you about how long you're taking DURING YOUR SHOT, I have a problem with it. I never said IBO was some heaven sent organization, but the ASA isn't either.


Then, never ever shoot fita then...they have a clock that buzzes...and you have FAR less then a minuite try 20 seconds.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I guarantee the IBO makes or attempts to make some big changes in the future............... If only because the writing is on the wall. Customers are walking away. 

The only question is will it be too late for the IBO to continue to be a major player in 3D. It seems Regions was real popular with those that had only shot IBO in the past. I have to assume Regions will only be better next year with advanced scheduling and better shoot dates. The ASA model they are following flat out works so it is only a matter scheduling and of course locating the shoots! I have no doubt that the ASA/Regions tournament format is far superior to the IBO format so as IBO shooters are exposed to the ASA/Regions more of them will choose ASA/Regions over the IBO.

I also predict the IBO will be around for a long time to come but with not nearly as many participants at major shoots..........kind of like the NFAA's field archery game.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Regions should go to center 12's. They would rule the world! lain:


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I must have missed it. How was attendance?


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> I must have missed it. How was attendance?


I don't know the precise total but it was 200 give or take. I myself was at first a bit disappointed in that after spending countless hours trying to promote this event after seeing the dismall turnout in Anderson. I know there are alot more shooters in this area that I didn't see there. But after spending the weekend there talking to everyone I could and hearing them rave about how they were enjoying the whole experience I started to realize that Regions did exactly what they needed to do in Warren by giving their best effort to bring the best format to those who haven't experienced it. Some may just look at the number and call it a failure but it was a perfect size learning experience for both Regions and the shooters looking for a better option here in the North. 
I can only see growth for the Regions staff, and with that growth they will need to bring their A game to continue to please their supporters. Their attention to the shooter's feedback over the weekend was evidence that they WANT to bring us what we have been asking for for years.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> I must have missed it. How was attendance?


I believe it was 200s.....so its climbing.....all shooters are happy to be shooting mckenzies again up that way


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

sagecreek said:


> Regions should go to center 12's. They would rule the world! lain:


Having the low offset 12 makes this style of shooting a strategy game...decisions have to be made whether to shoot at it or not. It also adds an exciting challenge to the sport where as center 11's offer none of that. Much more difficult both mentally and physically to aim and shoot at lower (or upper) 12's. It adds a risk/reward element to the game.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

the barbque festival probably didn't hurt anything either. :shade:


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> I believe it was 200s.....so its climbing.....all shooters are happy to be shooting mckenzies again up that way


I don't know about that! Wait until they see how the Delta McKJunk holds up.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

sagecreek said:


> Regions should go to center 12's. They would rule the world! lain:


I liked shooting for the low/high 12 better. Added a strategy to the game you don't get with center 11/12. Having to decide to shoot for it and holding off make it more challenging and exciting. Everyone I talked to at the shoot in Warren liked that aspect of it.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

carlosii said:


> the barbque festival probably didn't hurt anything either. :shade:


I don't think it made a difference, there seemed to be more archers than people for the barbque.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

bhtr3d said:


> I believe it was 200s.....so its climbing.....all shooters are happy to be shooting mckenzies again up that way


uuuhhh, no. it had nothing to do with the targets. Although they were better than what I have seen from McKenzie lately, I don't think they would have fared well had there been 1000+ shooters there. Personally I like shooting the McKenzies better, but they are not anywhere near the quality of Rinehart.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

hrtlnd164 said:


> I don't know the precise total but it was 200 give or take. I myself was at first a bit disappointed in that after spending countless hours trying to promote this event after seeing the dismall turnout in Anderson. I know there are alot more shooters in this area that I didn't see there. But after spending the weekend there talking to everyone I could and hearing them rave about how they were enjoying the whole experience I started to realize that Regions did exactly what they needed to do in Warren by giving their best effort to bring the best format to those who haven't experienced it. Some may just look at the number and call it a failure but it was a perfect size learning experience for both Regions and the shooters looking for a better option here in the North.
> I can only see growth for the Regions staff, and with that growth they will need to bring their A game to continue to please their supporters. Their attention to the shooter's feedback over the weekend was evidence that they WANT to bring us what we have been asking for for years.


I didn't think it would be easy for Regions to just up and swamp the 3D national circuit. I don't think the ASA took off like some jet and contending with not one, but two 3D organizations. I wish Regions well.



bhtr3d said:


> I believe it was 200s.....so its climbing.....all shooters are happy to be shooting mckenzies again up that way


Come on. All said and done a target is a target. Yes, I can see the point rings better on a McKenzie. People have been shooting McKenzies for X number of years, so another plus for them. But just recently IBO shooters have noted Rineharts are the "comic" target they thought, even the diehard McKenzie fans have given good reviews. Some think the IBO did right switching after seeing how the new McKenzies are. Cost wise perhaps McKenzie it the best first up to buy, but the Rinehart bodies hold up so well that many see years and years of service. Our club was lucky to have a McKenzie to stay together after two years. Putting a new center in one was kind of ridiculous after seeing the new center in a faded out, busted up, missin' ear deer or pronghorn. You can run over a Rinehart with a truck (tractor even), pick it up and shoot it. The whole body is made of the same foam as the center http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2041193&p=1067571003#post1067571003 

Our club, upgrading, just auctioned off a 13 or 14 year old Rinehart 30 point buck, - Johnson body before Rinehart made all their own - the one standing on one leg up front. It had been repaired and easily seen, but well capable of holding a center. $125.00. I think the person ordered a new center to go with it.
How many clubs have McKenzie deer size targets shot regularly for just 10 years and still be good looking and shootable?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

The Rineharts are definitely more challenging to shoot than McKenzies. The ill fitting inserts and body sections makes finding the 10 ring much easier on the McKJunk's. After just a handful of hits on the McKJunks you are "spot" shooting since you can see splotches in the 10 ring from 40 yards with your naked eye and I have modest eye sight. After hundreds of hits the 10 ring on the RineHarts looks fresh and virtually unmarked at 40 yards or even closer! Shooting Rineharts therefor is more challenging.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

darton3d said:


> uuuhhh, no. it had nothing to do with the targets. Although they were better than what I have seen from McKenzie lately, I don't think they would have fared well had there been 1000+ shooters there. Personally I like shooting the McKenzies better, but they are not anywhere near the quality of Rinehart.


This is a rib on sonny......nothing more nothing less....dont worry about it


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> I don't know about that! Wait until they see how the Delta McKJunk holds up.


We had no problem with our mckenzies here in Florida at our state shoot....you couldn't even tell where the shots where from the group ahead of you....and thats even shooting at a 6 yard russian boar.... I guess its all in how you take care of them...and know how to do the replacement and repainting for animals..... 

This is off the subject...but the state shoot, the club in daytona....targets look brand new just out of the box...and they are a years old...


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> We had no problem with our mckenzies here in Florida at our state shoot....you couldn't even tell where the shots where from the group ahead of you....and thats even shooting at a 6 yard russian boar.... I guess its all in how you take care of them...and know how to do the replacement and repainting for animals.....
> 
> This is off the subject...but the state shoot, the club in daytona....targets look brand new just out of the box...and they are a years old...


It's easier to score higher with the mcjunk than the wineharts since the 8 ring is outside the insert, not so on the wineharts. I find it harder to see the definition and see the lines on wineharts..


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Rinerats have little definition for me to see plus when you are two inches out of the 10 and get a 5. That is just BS. I really think Rinehart should have an R100 at Disney World cause their cartoonish looking targets would fit right in.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> We had no problem with our mckenzies here in Florida at our state shoot....you couldn't even tell where the shots where from the group ahead of you....and thats even* shooting at a 6 yard russian boar*.... I guess its all in how you take care of them...and know how to do the replacement and repainting for animals.....
> 
> This is off the subject...but the state shoot, the club in daytona....targets look brand new just out of the box...and they are a years old...


a russian boar at six feet??? :mg: no wonder the scores were so high. LOL


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Bubba Dean said:


> Rinerats have little definition for me to see plus when you are two inches out of the 10 and get a 5. That is just BS. I really think Rinehart should have an R100 at Disney World cause their cartoonish looking targets would fit right in.


r 100 at WDW?? man, i'd be all over that...i love WDW...all those princesses. :banana::banana::banana:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Bubba Dean said:


> Rinerats have little definition for me to see plus when you are two inches out of the 10 and get a 5. That is just BS. I really think Rinehart should have an R100 at Disney World cause their cartoonish looking targets would fit right in.


You aren't supposed to hit outside the ten ring 

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

6 foot targets, BBQ, Disneyland and princesses... You ASA guys sure know how to get a thread off track! LOL


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

It just really frustrates me that they rush us off of our course just because open c still has to shoot. The people on G/H range cannot help that. We paid our entry fees just like the rest of us. The range official even said we took to long pulling arrows...give me a break!


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Garceau-Try shooting without sights sometime. Staying within two inches of the 10 ring is a challenge.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Joseph McCluske said:


> It's easier to score higher with the mcjunk than the wineharts since the 8 ring is outside the insert, not so on the wineharts. I find it harder to see the definition and see the lines on wineharts..


.......uuummm these targets aren't inserts....they redo the old mids and rebuils..repaint and re score the rings with stensels....


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## hotdogg (Apr 9, 2010)

I've been shooting in the IBO for the past 10 years and my friends that I travel with have done so even longer. We went to Warren this past weekend mainly to see what it was like and because a couple of us had never shot an ASA style event. By Sunday afternoon we were all in agreement...we were completely blown away. Sure, there were small things that we could pick on but those can be talked up to growing pains. And I look for those things to be addressed next year because we shooters were asked multiple times what we thought and when we gave our opinion it was nice to feel your opinions were actually being listened to for a change. My opinion of this event and this organization is that it's first class all around. For sure I will be back next year. And if Regions can do what we were told they were trying to do (having a shoot in WV, IN, PA, and OH) my days of attending IBO tournaments are over. Finally, I'd like to congratulate all the shooters who put their skills on display this weekend and give two very enthusiastic thumbs up to all the officials, administrators, workers, and staff who made this the most enjoyable 3d tournament I've attended over the last decade.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

Just a note also, and not to hyjack the thread. Hats off to the Warren Chamber and those from Warren Archery Club also. It was late February or early March that Dick contacted me and asked if I could walk the fairgrounds with those folks. We meet on a Sunday afternoon and walked what turned out to be those ranges used for the tournament. A side from the driveway leading it the muzzleloading club grounds ALL was virgin trial and lanes. In addition the KPR and practice 3D and additional ranges were also cut. The additional ranges were cut if for a larger crowd they would have been used. All in all this was a tremendious group effort by Regions, Warren Chamber and all involved. All three host areas should be commended for the great effort...


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> We had no problem with our mckenzies here in Florida at our state shoot....you couldn't even tell where the shots where from the group ahead of you....and thats even shooting at a 6 yard russian boar.... I guess its all in how you take care of them...and know how to do the replacement and repainting for animals.....
> 
> This is off the subject...but the state shoot, the club in daytona....targets look brand new just out of the box...and they are a years old...





bhtr3d said:


> .......uuummm these targets aren't inserts....they redo the old mids and rebuils..repaint and re score the rings with stensels....


Exactly! The targets you guys used were the older better McKenzies! NOT the newer Delta McKjunks.

Come on Tim, you know NEW black 3d targets should not have very visible lighter brown spots when an arrow is pulled. Just a few arrows pulled from NEW black McKjunks and there is a very visible spot to use for aiming. Even my old eyes can see the insert on most targets at some distance. I understand the inserts ARE a good idea but the inserts none the less make it much easier to find the 10 ring.

Until there is a serious competitor to Delta/McKenzie we will just have to live with whatever they _choose_ to produce. At the same time RineHart could have improved on some of their forms and some target colors over the years. Acting like Delta/McKenzie is not producing an inferior product to what they could be producing does not motivate them to produce a better product!


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