# New Gillo Hammer Weights for Barebow



## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

I find them too Gillo riser related and I don’t think they look THAT good to make me buy a Gillo riser just because “I need to have them”. 
As for “when the barebow is no more barebow” I think the question is pertinent but since barebow is a stripped OR the answer is given by rule-makers not by etymology. For me the opposite weights mounted are not passing the rule since the bow riser is more than 122mm in at least one point of it. But even if the rule is arbitrary and incomplete you obey it because it is discretionary.


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## AR720 (Jun 28, 2016)

fango0000 said:


> I don't see why it is illegal to mount my 12oz weight on a 1.5inch extender since that will pass the BB judge ring and it basically is in the same shape as a hammer, just a cheaper two piece alternative.
> 
> View attachment 6914487


https://worldarchery.org/rulebook/article/3138

22.3.6.2.
Weight(s) may be added to the lower part of the riser. All weights, regardless of shape, shall mount directly to the riser without rods, extensions, angular mounting connections or shock-absorbing devices.

Now you see.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

AR720 said:


> https://worldarchery.org/rulebook/article/3138
> 
> 22.3.6.2.
> Weight(s) may be added to the lower part of the riser. All weights, regardless of shape, shall mount directly to the riser without rods, extensions, angular mounting connections or shock-absorbing devices.
> ...



Right. What I am saying is that how is my 2-piece weight and "extender" any different than the gillo hammer which is essentially a 1-piece milled "extender" with hammer shaped weight on the end? Would welding my 12oz fat weight to a narrow 2oz weight make it legal since its now technically a "direct" mount?

On a another note, wouldnt these Gillo weights count as "angular mounting connections?"


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

Not so much. The single word there that can overrule it is “extension”. But what “extension” means? Since the below are accepted:


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

I saw one of those Gillo "artist" sculpted weights on eBay. I have a Gillo branded backpack and even one of their funky yellow ball caps, but I don't get the aesthetics of these weights - hammers, axes, dragons - what next, runes and icons? It seems unworthy and contrary to the functional elegance of bows in general. The two offset hammers you can still navigate a ring around seems to be asking for a rule change.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Gillo is definitely pushing the boundaries here for barebow archers. I think they should be given credit for that, whether or not anyone chooses to use these or agrees with them.

Personally, I wouldn't mount a pair opposite one another because I feel it violates the spirit of the 12.2cm rule, but that's just me. Plenty others will take advantage of every opportunity within the rules, and this appears to be one of those cases.

Mark, when the dragons, axes and hammers came out, I immediately recognized how appealing they would be to the majority of barebow archers. They might not be my style (or yours by the sounds of it) but I can assure you, these designs will appeal to a LOT of barebow archers that I know. These are exactly the kinds of things that will draw new archers into barebow, or archers from other disciplines into barebow, whether we like it or not.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Personally I'm all for the 12.2cm ring and how you want to squeeze through it is your problem. The issue I have is when a DIY option isn't permitted but the identical OEM one is.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Draven Olary said:


> Not so much. The single word there that can overrule it is “extension”. But what “extension” means? Since the below are accepted:


If that Gammer/Axe weight is legal, I don't see why a weight setup like this is illegal. My real goal in this discussion is to give archers the option of weight setups that are cheaper but achieve the same thing since many of the college students I coach have very limited budgets.


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

I was answering to the reply above (AR720) who added in discussion the rules - in worst case scenario I was asking for a definition of "extension" since I couldn't find one, in best case scenario I was contradicting the guy who said the Gillo hammers are not according to the rules. For me, all it is a gray area, and it is discretionary both sides - you have a choice to use it or not, they have the choice to accept it or not. Some will let it pass, maybe some will not.

PS I don't see why your weight can't be inside the rules.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

because that 1" extension, that's why


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

I've seen two cylinders - different sizes - one on top of each other as weight and nobody said the smallest is "extension". You tell me that smaller cylinder is extension but the flaps that are attaching the "axe shaped weight" is not an extension? What I said above, without definition anything can or not be legal.


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Why don't you all ask US Archery instead of trying to interpret the rules. US Archery wrote it!


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## AR720 (Jun 28, 2016)

fango0000 said:


> Would welding my 12oz fat weight to a narrow 2oz weight make it legal since its now technically a "direct" mount?


Yup.



Draven Olary said:


> I've seen two cylinders - different sizes - one on top of each other as weight and nobody said the smallest is "extension". You tell me that smaller cylinder is extension but the flaps that are attaching the "axe shaped weight" is not an extension? What I said above, without definition anything can or not be legal.


If the blade contact the riser, which seems to be the case, then it's not an extension. Technically stacking weights would violate the rule, but, as with everything, it depends on whether the judge enforces it.

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3279049
https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4826697



archer_nm said:


> Why don't you all ask US Archery instead of trying to interpret the rules. US Archery wrote it!


World Archery wrote the rules, not USA Archery.


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Just the same!!!


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Just to mention that on August 14, 2019, World Archery has released an official interpretation specifically related to the GILLO "Hammers" defining them as legal in WA Bare Bow division.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Innovation doesn't come cheap! Urban Archery in Australia is the only google hit I got: http://www.urbanarcherysupplies.com/gillo-hammers-barebow-kit.html?id=36504697&quantity=1

Please correct if not interpreting correctly and my apologies in advance: 

Aus dollars $315 to USD = $211 for stainless pair, 600 grams
Aus dollars $149 to USD = $100 for aluminum pair, 200 grams


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Now, how much do OR archers spend on their stabilizer, V-bar and side rods?


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Now, how much do OR archers spend on their stabilizer, V-bar and side rods?


As you well know, it ain't cheap.


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## Mike Lawless (Sep 6, 2017)

Seattlepop said:


> Innovation doesn't come cheap! Urban Archery in Australia is the only google hit I got: http://www.urbanarcherysupplies.com/gillo-hammers-barebow-kit.html?id=36504697&quantity=1
> 
> Please correct if not interpreting correctly and my apologies in advance:
> 
> ...


It's awesome that Gillo is developing stuff for barebow archers. 

The questions are....Is this simply "Archery Jewelry?"

Or will it lead to better scores as compared to a comparable weight slug of round bar stock?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Mike Lawless said:


> It's awesome that Gillo is developing stuff for barebow archers.
> 
> The questions are....Is this simply "Archery Jewelry?"
> 
> Or will it lead to better scores as compared to a comparable weight slug of round bar stock?


Probably the former, but since barebow archers unquestionably have more style as a group, there is a place for this kind of accessory in the market.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> Now, how much do OR archers spend on their stabilizer, V-bar and side rods?


...


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Now, how much do OR archers spend on their stabilizer, V-bar and side rods?


But these are 4 times the cost of a cheap long rod and maybe 1/4 as effective.

I've made a variety of one piece weights which extend the mass as far as the ring allows. None of them were that cheap for the buyer (on-off machining isn't). But they weren't $211!

Likewise forcing people to buy very expensive risers to add weight above the grip *cough*CD*cough* rather than simply allowing any bow which can pass the ring to compete.
Although I think I have a workable solution to that last problem. It's just going to take a little machine time to create.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Exploring new solutions, making and testing prototyoypes for rather very smalll number of production pieces that sometime may take more than one year to sell is more passion than business. And Marketing for the Brand, of course. We like to do things different, as everyone can simply turn a round weight, add a grub screw to a carbon tube or mill a riser of any lenght from a solid bar of aluminum. Just a matter of small money. But at the end, the question is ever if a new solution can work better for few or for many, and only time can tell. GILLO has a new motto "Changing the Game!" as this is exactly what we are trying to do in the bow market for both Recurve and Bare Bow. Our design of accessories is evolving rapidly to support also the new generation of risers that will start with the first risers in the GT family late this year, and at time of its introduction, the entire picture will become more clear. And, of course, we are also working in cooperation with some major limbs manufacturers to finally offer to our customers also the solution for limbs they were looking for since a lot of time already. 
P.S.
Our friends of Fiberbow are also making Fiberwood risers, that start to be popular in Europe and everyone will see in Canada during World Champs 3D used in Instintive WA divison. Another example of products very far from normal concepts and I honestly admit they have inspired the development of our new GT risers family....


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

P.P.S : Also Recurve Olympic shooters deserve some new original toy to play with....

What about the "UFO" V-Bar system?


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## ceratops (May 17, 2017)

fango0000 said:


> View attachment 6914487


It's a bar puzzle for barebow


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Vittorio said:


> P.P.S : Also Recurve Olympic shooters deserve some new original toy to play with....
> 
> What about the "UFO" V-Bar system?
> 
> View attachment 6915979


Now that is pretty cool. And three mounting height options!


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Vittorio said:


> Just to mention that on August 14, 2019, World Archery has released an official interpretation specifically related to the GILLO "Hammers" defining them as legal in WA Bare Bow division.


FYI, this has not been published yet - see https://extranet.worldarchery.org/documents/index.php/html/?dir=546 - it is not posted in the French or 2019-2020 English sections either. Hopefully they will publish it soon, it will be interesting to read the interpretation.


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

See now if an arrow gets stuck in the wood and I need to split it a little to get it out, i just gotta detach the hammer and smack it.


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

waxyjaywalker said:


> See now if an arrow gets stuck in the wood and I need to split it a little to get it out, i just gotta detach the hammer and smack it.


Get the hatchet/axe attachment. You can hew a living from the wilds or settle a dispute over scoring.


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

Vittorio said:


> P.P.S : Also Recurve Olympic shooters deserve some new original toy to play with....
> 
> What about the "UFO" V-Bar system?
> 
> View attachment 6915979



Yup that will absolutely do it n drive me to a gillo riser

Is it just a in house prototype or a ready to sell product?

Thx~


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

kentsabrina said:


> Yup that will absolutely do it n drive me to a gillo riser
> 
> Is it just a in house prototype or a ready to sell product?
> 
> Thx~


Tests have been very positive, so we have already launched production. Shipping from mid-end October


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

j.conner said:


> FYI, this has not been published yet - see https://extranet.worldarchery.org/documents/index.php/html/?dir=546 - it is not posted in the French or 2019-2020 English sections either. Hopefully they will publish it soon, it will be interesting to read the interpretation.



It is there, check under the rules, Barebow weights interpretation 

https://worldarchery.org/rulebook/article/793#article-3367

PS Download interpretation to actually see the article and the images


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I think it's pretty awesome that we are finally at a point where manufacturers are making barebow-specific accessories and risers.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> Gillo is definitely pushing the boundaries here for barebow archers. I think they should be given credit for that, whether or not anyone chooses to use these or agrees with them.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't mount a pair opposite one another because I feel it violates the spirit of the 12.2cm rule, but that's just me. Plenty others will take advantage of every opportunity within the rules, and this appears to be one of those cases.
> 
> Mark, when the dragons, axes and hammers came out, I immediately recognized how appealing they would be to the majority of barebow archers. They might not be my style (or yours by the sounds of it) but I can assure you, these designs will appeal to a LOT of barebow archers that I know. These are exactly the kinds of things that will draw new archers into barebow, or archers from other disciplines into barebow, whether we like it or not.


Why can't function also be beautiful. The riser was designed to have bolt on weight distribution. The weight unquestionably provides stability/balance for aiming and dampens the reaction of the bow. Why have an ugly bow? Make a statement!


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Paul,

That may well be the best thing on the internet today. Is that yours?

Cheers
Erik


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Very cool Paul. I agree!


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

Vittorio said:


> kentsabrina said:
> 
> 
> > Yup that will absolutely do it n drive me to a gillo riser
> ...


Thx


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

While I appreciate the whimsy of the hammers, I agree with a couple of other commenters that stacked weights (technically illegal) are more in the spirit of the rules than the hammers. The photos accompanying the approviong WA ruling show the older Gillo weighted cover, not the hammer. I'm not sure this would pass (my) inspection as a judge.


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## wilkinsonk (Nov 23, 2014)

Cuthbert said:


> Why have an ugly bow? Make a statement!



Very nice! I am guessing lost-wax casting?


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

archeryal said:


> While I appreciate the whimsy of the hammers, I agree with a couple of other commenters that stacked weights (technically illegal) are more in the spirit of the rules than the hammers. The photos accompanying the approviong WA ruling show the older Gillo weighted cover, not the hammer. I'm not sure this would pass (my) inspection as a judge.



The file I was talking about shows this:


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

wilkinsonk said:


> Very nice! I am guessing lost-wax casting?


I don't want to hijack this thread, but no it's resin filled with brass powder. Weighs about 23oz. To answer the other inquiry, yes it's mine. Not on website. I might start a thread on this when I have a better idea of how I want to make this more custom. Thanks guys


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Cuthbert said:


> Why can't function also be beautiful. The riser was designed to have bolt on weight distribution. The weight unquestionably provides stability/balance for aiming and dampens the reaction of the bow. Why have an ugly bow? Make a statement!
> 
> View attachment 6919143


Nice!


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Draven Olary said:


> The file I was talking about shows this:


Found it (attached)! WA started maintaining interpretations in the Rules section as well as the HTTP/FTP site where the judge materials and by-laws are kept. They are just not in sync and should probably migrate and stick with one repository.

View attachment 6920435


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

So can we put stack weights on a 2" stabilizer and cover it with aluminum foil to look like a hammer and it's now legal if it fits through the ring?


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

archeryal said:


> So can we put stack weights on a 2" stabilizer and cover it with aluminum foil to look like a hammer and it's now legal if it fits through the ring?


LOL 

I like that idea, I should try it :darkbeer:


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

Still cannot understand why this is legal but a 2" steel extender with disc weights is not...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Mika Savola said:


> Still cannot understand why this is legal but a 2" steel extender with disc weights is not...


Neither do I


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## Mike Lawless (Sep 6, 2017)

Mika Savola said:


> Still cannot understand why this is legal but a 2" steel extender with disc weights is not...





limbwalker said:


> Neither do I


This post has got me to thinkin' about my own riser weight that I made from SS bar stock. I thought it would be legal, but if stacked discs are not legal, then technically, my "chunk" is not legal. Even though it appears to be one piece, it it three pieces stacked. 

So, back to my lathe to carve out another as a single chunk. 

The question is, can it have a reduced diameter "extender" as long as the entire enchilada is one piece and fits through the ring?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Mike Lawless said:


> ..
> The question is, can it have a reduced diameter "extender" as long as the entire enchilada is one piece and fits through the ring?


.

Answer is of course yes. Seen several examples around in the years, and no Judge complained.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Cuthbert said:


> I don't want to hijack this thread, but no it's resin filled with brass powder. Weighs about 23oz. To answer the other inquiry, yes it's mine. Not on website. I might start a thread on this when I have a better idea of how I want to make this more custom. Thanks guys


Since I am already criticizing what feels to me are nonsensical BB equipment rules - wouldnt dampening brass powder be considered illegal too since the rules state no dampeners except for a pair of limbsavers?


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

fango0000 said:


> Since I am already criticizing what feels to me are nonsensical BB equipment rules - wouldnt dampening brass powder be considered illegal too since the rules state no dampeners except for a pair of limbsavers?


The same way the extra weight on a WF riser or Spig Club "dampens" is what I mean by dampening. The casting is rigid.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Cuthbert said:


> The same way the extra weight on a WF riser or Spig Club "dampens" is what I mean by dampening. The casting is rigid.


Ahhh got it. 

I was imagining that powder to be like that of the Ramrod tungsten powder weights where they actually just sprinkle some free floating tungsten powder for dampening.


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

Mike Lawless said:


> This post has got me to thinkin' about my own riser weight that I made from SS bar stock. I thought it would be legal, but if stacked discs are not legal, then technically, my "chunk" is not legal. Even though it appears to be one piece, it it three pieces stacked.
> 
> So, back to my lathe to carve out another as a single chunk.
> 
> The question is, can it have a reduced diameter "extender" as long as the entire enchilada is one piece and fits through the ring?


Get someone to spot/tack weld the one you already have so it can't be disassembled and for all intents and purposes make it one piece? I have a 10" lathe and I know how time consuming it can be to turn something down - not bad if you're into making piles of swarf or have a massive Monarch, but lots of standing, repetition, and noise.


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