# To the OAA President and Board of Directors



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Well said Bill ..... executive should and could be open minded and accountable ....if you want membership numbers to grow.....and get more volunters as well...Hopefully new exec will be proactive ...


----------



## doc2931 (Feb 9, 2010)

Hi Bill

You are correct, Stash did post some questions on Facebook and I did say please send me an email. This was not to hide anything, it was simply because as I said on in the comments that to properly explain and give answers to his questions it is easier to do this in an email back to the person asking. In many cases short comments without proper explanation on Facebook can and are interpreted differently then they are intended to be.

I do agree that membership does need to be informed and that the proliferation of information is very important to the membership and also to attracting new members. I do have plans and am working to ensuring that both the website and the OAA Facebook Group is updated regularly. But it is not going to happen immediately, my plan is for the new year to get things on track to regular updates and information which I don't believe is unreasonable considering this is all new to me.

I don't know the past and cant speak for that but can only look forward and towards what I do have planned. I am new to this position and have had a lot to get up to speed on in a very short period of time, therefor I haven't been able to implement more frequent updates for the online resources as soon as I would have liked as I just haven't had time. I do work a full time job along with a major entity in planning the Annual CAFAC Shoot for a Cure Archery tournament at the Colby Shooting Club which Ted can attest to requires a significant amount of work when dealing with 100 plus shooters and the money that is raised. Not to mention my own enjoyment of the sport and shooting at the indoor tournaments that have begun, I took on this position because I enjoy archery, the people and everything that goes along with it and I would hate to loose that.

So I do ask that you give me a chance to get caught up, learn the position, what is working well and what isn't and given time to get things updated and information out. I realize that everyone wants everything immediately but the reality of the situation is that it can't all happen RIGHT NOW. I do have plans to address all the things that both you and Stash and others have talked about and I hope you will continue to provide feedback and comments as this is the only way to learn and grow.

Keep an eye in the new year, and see for yourself if things change. Again it might not all happen immediately but there will be change


----------



## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

Not sure if this would work but why doesn't the OAA create a forum? You could have a public forum and a private section for OAA members. IMHO this would be a good way to get new members (public forum) as well an accessible area for OAA members (private forum or members only section) to discuss pertinent issues. 

By all accounts of everything else I read recently about the OAA lately, their website seems to be falling by the wayside. Not sure if they have realized it yet but the internet is not a fad and seems like it's here to stay. LOL! I am joking...(before someone bites my head off)

vBulletin type forums are plentiful and cost next to nothing to setup and manage. 

You can talk about where to go to discuss this that and the other...Facebook, AT...but an organization the size of the OAA should have an up to date website. A one stop shop sort of speak that contains information, rules, forums, minutes from meeting etc...in a much more presentable and robust manner.

Ask yourself this...why is Facebook and AT (and others) the place to go to get information RE: OAA. Shouldn't the first place an Ontario archer go be OAA????


----------



## doc2931 (Feb 9, 2010)

Yes the OAA website should be the first place to go for information, and will be in the future as far as I am concerned.

Forums are a tricky business, they can be a great resource and provide very useful discussions but as all of us have seen including here on Archery Talk, quality discussions can break down very quickly into situations that really are more of a detriment then anything else. This is why there is a need for moderators etc. to virtually police the forum to make sure everyone is towing the line. Not at all saying that this isn't and couldn't be done in the future, but just right now there are other things that need to be done first. Once these are in place and functioning properly we can look at new avenues.

The one thing I do want to see used more is the Members Only section more, I believe it can be a very useful section. The problem that I do know from the past was that people simply didn't go and create a Login, its a very very simple procedure 1. Go to "Lost Password" 2. follow "lost password" procedure and you are registered, its that simple but many wouldn't, refused, didn't want to, not really sure what all the reasons were. So in a case like this, the resource was and is there, but people don't take advantage of it. Again I would like to change in the coming future.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

In all honest opinion and this is just me the old web site I think was more user friendly..I don`t sit at the comp all day so searching for info is a pain for me.. seems right here on at when a negative or a complement for the oaa is mentioned it is answered 5 times faster than going to the oaa site .. in my observations seems public form works well here ..and it is a canadian site. imho good luck to all that have new positions .. and yes volunteering is probably one of the most hardest positions out there ..


----------



## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

Hey doc2931, 
I believe a website is a very important communication tool. Especially for those non archers looking for info, a lot of them parents of kids inspired by Hunger Games, Brave, Avengers etc. In past summers I've had neighbours (from the cottage) ask me about archery resources for their children. I've pointed them to the OAA site and local clubs that I know of. And I've given them a few lessons with my spare bows and lent them equiopment etc but the feedback I got from them on the OAA site was "it isn't very friendly to non archers" who are looking to start out. One of the moms, a high school teacher asked if there are links to highschool teams and OFSSA. I couldn't find one. So since the web site is public, maybe it needs a bit more lay person parent type info to help.
As for the members section, I think I had a log in a while back ....but forgot it and don't remember the reason to go there anymore.....FB and AT are my main resources right now...I'm not a texting twitter guy and who knows what the next tool will be. 
No doubt you have some ideas and the crowd here wants you to succeed with them, keep the dialogue open.

Thanks


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

I agree with cc46 seems the kiss method is still the best..


----------



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

The OAA "Membership Portal" is next to useless at this time. There's nothing there that isn't on the open website other than some out of date financial statements. Turn it into an "OAA Discussion Forum", allow it to be openly viewed but requiring a membership to post, and you may have something. Otherwise, Facebook or here is the best place to discuss things. As long as it remains a civil discussion, with constructive conclusions.

BTW, I did send the e-mail to Michael and he did take the time to reply in detail, thanks for that.


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Since the website has become such a hot topic again we want your feedback. Please email what you think the OAA's website should be and do to [email protected]. 

Please include your OAA number in your email or a valid reason why you are not a member. We won't be replying directly to requests, or implementing everything right away but it will give us an idea of what is desired so that we can determine complexity and financial implications before the 2013/14 budget is developed.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Good idea stash then I would go to the oaa site more often but still find it hard to use... but here at least you have all of canadas archers in the thought process..


----------



## wellis1840 (May 29, 2005)

Until you get any emails CapainT, I think you can get a few ideas from this thread of what some people would like. Just these few things mentioned here would keep a web designer busy for a little while.

But your statement "or implementing everything right away but it will give us an idea of what is desired so that we can determine complexity and financial implications before the *2013/14* budget is developed" is a little worrying. In this thread the President states that he is getting a handle on the job and juggling that in with his job, family life and other interests. Understandability, that takes time. The President also want to assess the immediate needs of the OAA (Quote:"....what is working well and what isn't and given time to get things updated…."). Understandability, that also takes time as well. 

Why am I finding this worrying, there are many past threads here on AT concerning the OAA that have been filled with information spawned from partial truths, rumors and speculation by misinformed members, me being one. Those threads got rather heated. Example http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1828744 . There has been a need for solid information from the OAA for very a long time and past Boards have not addresses this. The above paragraph pushes back the "access to information" to the membership for an unknown amount of time. 

Can't documents be thrown behind the Members Portal in short order (current AGM minutes, current financial statements, planned projects, other projects in the works and where they are in development, roadblocks the OAA is running into, fixes to current problems, etc.). Past discussions here must have given the Board an idea of what members are interested in concerning OAA matters. Does this have to be put up for budget review? Maybe, by the summer 2013, have a forum of some sort back behind the Members Portal and that forum can evolve in complexities and per its needs over time.

The President is clear here that he also agrees that information should be out on the OAA website. The question is now when…


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Documents can be thrown behind the membership portal in short order. The problem is they are seldom provided in a format that will allow for this. It's like pulling teeth to get clubs to submit their dates using the provided template by the deadline. Getting a document that doesn't need to be formatted is next to impossible. Also, just throwing things up is one of the reasons things are so hard to find.

The budget for 2013/14 (Apr*2013*-Mar*2014*) is developed in January/February and in effect by April. Is it really to much to ask for a little time to plan things? Things like publishing documents isn't difficult and won't likely have a budget impact, but I still need to receive the documents and take the time to format them. Rebuilding the layout so things are easy to find (CLASSICHUNTER's request) and building a members only forum (multiple requests including yourself) are quite time consuming and will require a lot of effort on my part. I've already started work on a forum once and found that it was too much work to do it properly and justify doing it pro bono.

Why did I create an email address to ask for the requests? As you stated these threads can get quite heated and I have better things to do than to read through countless posts of complaints to pick out the one or two good recommendations. A simple "Hi. This is CaptainT (OAA###) and I think the website needs x" is much easier to look through than a 4 paragraph rant with no recommendation.


----------



## doc2931 (Feb 9, 2010)

Hi Wellis, Captain T is correct there are some changes and modifications that will require consideration in the budget. These are larger changes and do require significant time to re-model but items such as documents, minutes and so on can be posted sooner and will. He wasn't saying that everything would be on hold until the budget is developed just large things such as re-organizing the layout take significant amounts of time to complete and other features that do require being implemented with the budget.

I are looking for input, good constructive ideas that can be used to improve the OAA website for the future. Just because we can't reply to every suggestion or comment doesn't mean it isn't being considered. We simply have only so much free time that we can devote to OAA activities.

As for past threads, far as I am concerned they are in the past, nothing more. If we keep living in the past and talking about past discussions nothing will ever move forward. So lets look to the future, new changes and an improved system that works for everyone. 

Just remember these things do take time to identify and create appropriate solutions. The more ideas and feedback we get the more we have to work with to get the ball rolling. As I did say earlier there will be changes coming in the very near future some may be minor but its all about getting it started. It will take time and as I have said before, give me and the OAA time to get these things going, everything just can't happen immediately.


----------



## wellis1840 (May 29, 2005)

CaptainT, I am sorry that you found my last reply "a 4 paragraph rant with no recommendation". I believe that there are many valid points in this thread and that this thread is rather constructive and not destructive...until your last reply.

I joined the OAA many many years ago to get insurance to shoot 3D at various clubs. Over the years I have noticed on the OAA web site, here on AT that the OAA has never truly supported 3D. Looking through any OAA Tournament Directory trying to find images or anything pertaining to 3D is a waste of time. On the other hand, if I was into FITA, the book and the OAA web site would keep me well informed. 

What does the OAA do for my sport, 3D, damned if I know? Do I continue with the OAA so a few 3D elite shooters are financially supported to go to national and international tournaments? Do I continue with the OAA to give myself the opportunity to do to the 3D provincials? Hum….let me think on this.

Decision made, I will give the OAA a miss in 2013 and only join OFHA (Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters). They are not archery orientated like the OAA but they do positive things for conservation, fishing and hunting. I also will be fully insured while at archery events. OFHA sends out a magazine throughout the year that includes a member’s section of many pages devoted to what they are up to and what they are doing for their members. The OFHA website is filled with information and all is current. I will continue to support 3D clubs in my area, something I have not seen the OAA doing in any big way ever.

So Mr. CaptainT continue along the same old road and good luck with the OAA.


----------



## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

AHHHH Too funny. This is exactly why I am not a member. A bunch of BS that goes no where in the end. To much crap to take the fun out of something.

wellis1840, I think you have made a great decision and in the end you will still be enjoying the sport of archery and participationg in all the events you did before. With the extra cash in your pocket..


----------



## Wiz w/a Sceptre (Nov 27, 2007)

Here we go with the same old 3D [email protected]#$% again - really, really folks. You just aren't that special.

Adam, Mike and the rest of the OAA B of D, quite frankly you are to be commended for your past efforts Adam, outstanding job. Mike, we've shot together and talked in the past you seem like an authentic, well rounded individual who has stepped upto the plate, and I think you will do a great job as well - just give it some time, you can't eat the whole elephant in one sitting. 

I for one have never, ever wanted anything from the OAA other than insurance and listing of shoot dates. The OAA has far exceeded that in my eyes. I personally believe the OAA should do nothing but get the clubs/individuals the insurance and publish a list of shoot dates and call it a day. Just my .02

To all a Merry Christmas


----------



## doc2931 (Feb 9, 2010)

Hi Wellis, its unfortunate that you think that way. The OAA does just as much for the 3D shooters as it does for the other sports. Actually if you really look at it Field Target receives the least amount of support of any of the sports. Juniors are where the most money is spent, sending them to things such as the Canadian Archery Championships and other events. This is done equally for both the 3D teams and the FITA teams but isn't for Field Target, now part of this is because there currently are few juniors involved in Field Target but the fact remains that both 3D and FITA are equally funded here. 

As for other support the OAA pay upfront for the new targets that are provided for the 3D Championships, this is not an expense of the hosting club. Even after auctioning the targets off the OAA never re-coups the money. the FITA section also has targets provided by the OAA but are only replaced when needed. So 3D is the only group that receives brand new targets every year to ensure that they are shooting at new targets at the OAA Provincials. So you have said that the OAA never supports the 3D aspect of archery but in retrospect they are supported equally if not a little more then FITA and definitely Field Target. Other then these things the OAA doesn't do a ton of advertising, at the sportsman show there is a mix of targets available for people to shoot at representing all aspects of Archery. Its true that the majority of volunteers help at the Sportsman Show are target shooters but this is because THEY ARE the ones that volunteer to help. The money they earn for the OAA is still distributed evenly for 3D and FITA.

And there seems to be some CORRECTION needed when it comes to who is financially supported to go to events and where that support comes from. The OAA does not provide funding for ANY shooters who travel Internationally this funding is ALL provided by Archery Canada (AC) formerly Federation of Canadian Archers (FCA). The OAA funds Juniors to participate in the Canada Games and Canadian Nationals equally in both 3D and FITA, again not in Field Target. The OAA funded 1 adult shooter in both 3D and FITA to participate at the National Championships, again not a Field Target shooter. This is important to understand that the OAA does NOT fund for International Events these are all funded by AC or by the shooter themselves.

Some may not understand but most of the funds the OAA has are provided to us by provincial and sometimes federal grants. This money is used to run the organization, provide judges to Provincial Events and to fund the Juniors and limited Adults to National Championships. In order to maintain this money we have to show that we are actively promoting and implementing the Archery LTAD Program, Coaching Programs and overall promotion of the sport. We have to show that we sending athletes to Provincial and National events, if we don't then we could possibly loose this funding. Many people don't understand this and in many cases is very hard to get people to understand, but there is a need to ensure we are sending specifically juniors to events such at the Canadian Nationals. There is other money that is provided to some High Performance athletes by AC but this is money that comes from Sport Canada and is specifically ear marked for athletes in Olympic Events, there is no option in this but is again not provided by the OAA but by AC.

AS for the OAA Directory I can speak to that directly as I have assembled the directory for the last 5 years. And I know for fact that there has been a Traditional Cover, 3D cover and that there are photos from 3D events throughout the book and that I work hard to represent all aspects of Ontario archery equally. I have all of the last books in front of me and can say that 3D is represented equally as the others. I have intentionally made covers that show each discipline with the exception of a FITA cover.

So wellis, I would like to know what area are you from? what clubs are we speaking about? if I don't know this, it is very hard to work towards solving these issues, if you would like to email this information please do [email protected]. Also what kind of support would you or the clubs you speak of want? I personally have asked this question to a few 3D shooters and no one could ever give me an answer. If the OAA is to give more support to the 3D shooters, what would you like? Many of the board are active 3D shooters along with being FITA and Field Target Shooters. I myself shoot events in all three during the year. The OAA does equally for 3D as it does for FITA, it might be that FITA shooters are more active in participation in OAA events or volunteering at things such as the Sportsmen Show. Is this why its assumed that target is more supported? The fact is that Field Target is the least supported of all the OAA archery disciplines 3D and FITA are supported equally even if its not seen by some.

Again any feed back is important and would be appreciated, this is the only way we can move forward and improve the OAA for all its archers.


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

wellis1840 said:


> I will give the OAA a miss in 2013 and only join OFHA (Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters). They are not archery orientated like the OAA but they do positive things for conservation, fishing and hunting. I also will be fully insured while at archery events. OFHA sends out a magazine throughout the year that includes a member’s section of many pages devoted to what they are up to and what they are doing for their members. The OFHA website is filled with information and all is current.


I'm familiar with OFAH. I'm a member as well and think it's a great organization. But like the OAA, I don't join because I want something from it, I joined because it's the right thing to do and it supports what I enjoy doing. I really don't think comparing the OAA with OFAH is one bit fair either. OFAH has 8,000+ members, a volunteer board 4 times the size of the OAA's, and many paid full time staff. I don't see a day any time in the near future when the OAA can afford to have 2 full time web developers, a graphic designer and its own magazine.


----------



## wellis1840 (May 29, 2005)

Mr. President, an email has been sent to you.

Cheers,

Bill


----------



## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

I sent an email to the website email addy....

here is a draft

Hi this is Chuck Cooper OAA member #4878, cc46 on ArcheryTalk.


And I think the web site needs a "Frequently asked Questions" section directed to non archers and parents.


Off the cuff the questions might be 


1) I'm interested in archery, how do I get involved?

--- Archery in Ontario is enjoyed primarily at archery clubs, and some highschools. For a listing of Ontario clubs please have a look here (link to OAA directory)

--- for highschools that offer archery, please refer to ___________

2) My son/daughter watched Brave and wants to try archery, is 8 years old too young?

--- 8 is a great age to start with proper supervision

3) Where can I take archery lessons?

--- many of the Ontario clubs offer lessons over 6 week periods and a few clubs offer summer day camps. We suggest you locate a club near you and give them a call, or visit their webpage/facebook page and then go in person to see them.

4) Is archery safe?

--- insurance studies have shown archery on a per hour of activity is safer than, _____, _____ and _____. Here is a link to the study. link (I read this a while back, don't have my fingers on it right now)

5) What kinds or archery are there?

---archery is thought of in 3 disciplines, each offer a different experience.

a/ Target Archery is modeled to the international competitive archery that at the highest level is the Olympics

b/ Field Archery is modeled to achieve accuracy over varing terrains and distances and is shot at many different targets in a day, while roving through a forrest trail to the set positions, on restricted property.

c/ 3D Archery is modeled similar to Field Archery but the targets are three dimensional foam animals. 3D archery simulates the challenges that a hunter may have and is an excellent training for the new hunter. And also at clubs on restricted property. 

6)How competitive can archery be? 

--- as competitive as you want it to be, from family recreation to the Olympics

7) What is the difference between a compound bow and a recurve bow?

--- Compound bows use the pulleys and cables and the eccentric cams on the ends of the limbs to allow an archer to pull a large weight but then hold at a lower weight. The Compound is a simple machine that is very efficient at storing energy to shoot faster and harder.

--- Recurve bows are increasingly harder to pull the further back you draw.

8) How much does a bow and set of arrows cost?

--- entry level bows start are $100-$200 and arrows $50-$100 for a dozen, you need a tab or glove and an arm guard so leave about $50 for those and misc items. As time and interest increases you change add or change equipment.

9)Can you recomend an archery "how to" book? 

--- there are many on the market, but starting out we recomend you try a club in you area and talk directly with the instructors.

10) Where can I buy a bow?

--- the Ontario Association of Archers would recommend the archery shops that advertise here on our site, here's a link ______, they are all good and hopefully there's one near you!




Hope you consider this, 

Thanks again

Chuck


----------



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Chuck, an FAQ is a good idea, but to make it workable on the OAA website I think it should be restricted to OAA concerns. There's tons of general archery information available on the web - no need to rewrite it all for the OAA website.

Michael, Adam - I will be sending you my suggestions shortly. Thanks for taking the time to reply here.


----------



## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

I hear you Stan, but I think new members are a concern to the OAA too and welcomed. There can be both. Grow the membership, the club membership, and send folks to the archery shops, it all helps. Never stop selling.
For the OAA specific interests I agree and perhaps the password portal is a good thing.


I have another thought.....is the directory book this year going to have a limited production run and price on it? 
I think it is a promotional tool and should have double the qty produced. Why? send 2 to every member and ask them to give it to a friend and tell them about archery and invite them to a club to shoot with you....like that shampoo commercial, tell a friend who tells a friend, who tells a friend...

Several years ago, my daughter was involved with a non profit community theatre....5 shows a year, production costs 15k a show, ticket sales 50k. I was on the BoD. The BoD fought over selling programs or giving them away. The status quo wanted 1000 printed and sold, I wanted 2000 printed and given out free, our community advertisers wanted 4000 distributed with their ad / biz card in it. Why is this important to the OAA? Well non profits have a lot in common, it's not the value of the $2 sale its the exposure and potential members you can attract and the strengthing of the advertising shops. The cost is small compared to the potential.

Think about it.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

c46 your right on with the book it potentially only goes to members and each club gets about 6 extra.. I place a full page add for my charity shoot and I`m not quibbling about price of add but like you say we would get more shooters to each shoot if we mailed 15 to each archery shop to distribute and get more people to advertise like ctc... bass pro...stores and archery shops as well of course placing corporate adds will cost more than the clubs advertising a shoot ..as they are members .. just a thought...


----------



## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

Stash said:


> Chuck, an FAQ is a good idea, but to make it workable on the OAA website I think it should be restricted to OAA concerns. There's tons of general archery information available on the web - no need to rewrite it all for the OAA website.


Ya, because who would go to the Ontario Archery website to learn about archery in Ontario?


----------



## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

From the outside looking in, there does not appear to be a shortage on good ideas.
There seems to be an issue around implementation...in one form or another.


----------



## doc2931 (Feb 9, 2010)

Im going to reply to the last few posts, so please read them to understand the response.


An FAQ section is a great idea and I think would be useful both on the public side of the website and within the Members Portal. Obviously each having different information and more member specific information in the portal. 


As for the directory it really comes down to cost. We would love to be able to print more then we do and hand them out everywhere. But there are costs involved and the OAA just doesn't have the extra funds to be able to do this currently. It has been considered in the past but it came down to funds. The advertising within the directory does not yet cover the cost producing the directory therefore the OAA does loose money on this at the moment. We are working at changing this creating new ad sizes and working at getting new advertisers which there are this year. But we are not there yet, once we can get the directory to be self sufficient and maybe even making money we can look at printing in larger numbers and giving them out more freely. We currently print 3000 directories a year and every year there are left over directories, all the stores, clubs and members should know that a simply email to Lynda ( [email protected] ) can provide more directories when needed, there is a nominal fee as we try to re-coup some of the costs including the postage. If members haven't known this, then I can say that they do know now. They are handed out for free at the Toronto Sportsmen Show and possibly other locations but I am not entirely sure on that. I have already posted the sizes, rates etc. for the 2014 Directory in the files section of the Facebook Group if anyone wants to have a look.


Please feel free to have anyone interested in advertising contact us.


----------



## doc2931 (Feb 9, 2010)

rdneckhillbilly said:


> From the outside looking in, there does not appear to be a shortage on good ideas.
> There seems to be an issue around implementation...in one form or another.


rdneckhillbilly, you are correct there are some great ideas coming out. This has been one of the first times that ideas are being suggested, provided etc. so that myself and the board has something to work with. Most of the time posts have been what is going wrong but with no suggestion as to how to solve it. Its great to let us know what it not working well, but even better when suggestions on how to solve those problems are provided also.

Please keep the ideas coming and remember to email them to [email protected], the more information we have the more we can provide proper responses and correct any misunderstandings that are out there regarding the OAA.


----------



## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

doc2931 said:


> rdneckhillbilly, you are correct there are some great ideas coming out. This has been one of the first times that ideas are being suggested, provided etc. so that myself and the board has something to work with. Most of the time posts have been what is going wrong but with no suggestion as to how to solve it. Its great to let us know what it not working well, but even better when suggestions on how to solve those problems are provided also.
> 
> Please keep the ideas coming and remember to email them to [email protected], the more information we have the more we can provide proper responses and correct any misunderstandings that are out there regarding the OAA.


Good to hear and will do.
Moving forward in a positive manner is best for all.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

my goodness a public forum and intelligent responses..and quick too.. I guess sometimes e-mails are time consuming and non informative.. way to go guys...


----------



## doc2931 (Feb 9, 2010)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> my goodness a public forum and intelligent responses..and quick too.. I guess sometimes e-mails are time consuming and non informative.. way to go guys...


For thorough explanations on topics as those who have emailed me know, still do require email and that will never change. Sometimes people are willing to speak more openly when they know everyone isn't reading it. There will always be a need for emails but places such as AT and FB are good places to get topics going and discussed in a limited degree.


----------

