# The cost of becoming an Olympian



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

The last part of that article makes me sick.

USA Curling gives 120K to their squad. IIRC, one team consists of 4 players and an alternate. If you have 1 men's and 1 women's team, that's 10 people, $12000 per player.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

It looks as if curling has its act together. And I've seen curling on TV. Strategy, teamwork, drama, all while you can see the object being delivered into the scoring zone. I enjoyed watching it. No, I'm not a curler.


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## bardman (Oct 18, 2006)

Olympics are a joke. Once the pros where let in the team sports I lost interest. Summer Olympics dropped baseball cause we would not send pros. I guess that 1980 hockey team was not enough drama for um. 

And the cost of going is stupid amounts of money. When I say stupid I mean ridculous. I aint sceered to pay for stuff I want to see and that made me gag at the prices for the Atlanta Olympics. 

All that said I will watch and cheer for USA.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I guess the title could have read "The cost of being an Olympian if you train within the 'system' " ... :wink:

Ha, ha, ha.

This is a topic I could talk about for a few :darkbeer:

Archers are fortunate. There are much more affordable ways. Trust me.

John.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> I guess the title could have read "The cost of being an Olympian if you train within the 'system' " ... :wink:
> 
> Ha, ha, ha.
> 
> ...


Well, Limbwalker, you have been there, right? You know what it takes? Please, let us know. I am personally not an Olympic hopeful, but I wouldn't mind the input of somebody who doesn't have to hope any more.


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## b.mcnice (Mar 24, 2008)

*I wonder........*



limbwalker said:


> I guess the title could have read "The cost of being an Olympian if you train within the 'system' " ... :wink:
> 
> Ha, ha, ha.
> 
> ...


I wonder if Limbwalker isn't really a secretly independently wealthy archer...... hmmm?
:set1_thinking:


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

John I had to smile when I read your comments. It’s funny that entitlement or massive financial support is the expected norm these days. 

I came from a family of 8 and money was very limited. We took our lunches to school because we could not afford lunch money and rode the school bus. I received either hand-me-down clothes or home made. My very first new bow was a sponsorship bow from Earl. Before I received this bow, I had taken a Silver at the US National Outdoor Championships (adult division), finished as the alternate at the World Team Trials, placed 2nd behind Darrell at the Cobo Hall event which was by far the largest Indoor event at that time and taking 2nd place at the US Indoor National Championships (Jurassic, I haven’t forgotten!). 

During the four years of commitment to make the Olympic Team I probably spent about $4000 for everything (about $1000 per year). I know that sounds like very little but it just amazes me what people think they need to be good. For instance, a major coach, a physical trainer, sport psychologist, nutritionist, travel to international tournaments, team camps, the best equipment money can buy, and all of those long distance tournaments including all of the USAT events, etc. And please do not tell me that the competition is better today than it was back then. Some of the scores we shot back then is still hard to shoot by some of the best today and I can assure you the equipment we used back then was a bit different than what is shot today.

I keep thinking that if archers would just focus on shooting good consistent form and then make sure their bow is tuned as best as possible they will have the two most important ingredients to head towards making the Olympic Team. The mental game is only achieved by competing. That can be done even at the local events. I shot tons of NFAA field events before I ever shot a FITA event. It still gives you competitive experience. Most archers can drive to a lot of FITA events today compared to when I was young, so the opportunity is even better than what we had. As a matter of fact I usually shot 3 or 4 FITA’s a year and the rest were NFAA stuff. I really don’t think that this type of competing hurt me. And believe it or not, 9 months of the year was indoor shooting. The weather was not that great for outdoor shooting in Indiana except June, July and August. 

Either way, you cannot buy success. You have to earn it.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Rick, I figured you'd appreciate that.

In 2004, I probably set a record for the least amount of money ever spent to make an Olympic team. Well, unless some track athlete just bought shoes and ran real fast... ha, ha.

Good thing too, since I was raised a lot like Rick (only there were 5 of us being raised by a single mom and we ate breakfast and lunch at the school courtesy of the State school lunch program). I would never justify spending a lot of money on something like archery. In fact, I "traded" one hobby for another in '03, selling off all my medium format camera equipment I'd collected over the past 4 years to raise the funds for the bows and arrows... I bought the riser I shot in Athens right here on the AT Classifieds, and my backup I got from Ebay. Both sets of limbs were close-out SKY carbons I got from Ann Hoyt for $200/pair. My arrows were all second hand ACE's, if you can believe that, so much that the logos were worn off of them. I used Cartel tabs @ $12 ea. and Cartel plungers at about the same... My bow stands were the cheap screw-together Cartel metal stands. My spotting scope was an Ebay $20 special. I think I got both of my Sure-loc sights from a fellow here on AT @ $100 each and my stabilizers were Ebay too. 

I believe my travel costs for both tournaments I went to prior to the Olympics were probably in the hundreds of dollars. I camped at state parks overnight and drove from Illinois to Texas and New Jersey in our family mini-van. I was grateful that the Oly. trials were "nearby" in Ohio that year. The four nights in a hotel there was my greatest single expense.



> I keep thinking that if archers would just focus on shooting good consistent form and then make sure their bow is tuned as best as possible they will have the two most important ingredients to head towards making the Olympic Team. The mental game is only achieved by competing.


Truer words were never spoken.

I firmly believe that today's kids and many of their parents get so focused on "other" things that they either forget or never realize that the most important things are exactly what Rick mentioned - Shooting consistent form and preparing their equipment. I always encourage archers to focus on themselves and the things they can control. Dreaming about National teams, training programs, new and more expensive equipment, or what the other archers are doing are all just distractions IMO. And those distractions are what usually do in the average archer. 

Too little emphasis is put on what one can achieve right there at their own home. I know 90% of my training happened right in my front yard. I was fortunate, in that I had a neighbor that allowed me to use her property to shoot out to 90 meters. So all I had to do was walk to the end of my driveway to train. But there have been other archers (one young lady from New York city comes to mind) that trained mostly in their bedroom or apartment, or basement or garage. This winter, I shot far more arrows at 12 yards in my garage than I have outdoors. And it's good training.

As for coaching, the best coach I ever had was my own video camera. A friend gave me a copy of Rick's book "The Simple Art of Winning" and I studied it over and over and filmed myself religiously. Not enough archers are studying film of themselves and of other archers. It's even easier today with digital video available of most great archers - for free, on line. An archer can learn a lot by studying those archer's form and comparing it to their own.

If an archer is not studying film and using inexpensive training aids like the Formaster, then IMO they aren't really serious about being the best archer they can be. Neither of those things have anything to do with national training programs, expensive gear or celebrity coaches either...

It's tempting to focus on opportunities, equipment or training programs that are promoted and well publicized. I can assure you that you don't need those things to be successful. That's one thing that makes our sport great. That even a neighbor's front yard can become an Olympic training center... 

John.


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## NerdHick (Aug 20, 2006)

Great Reading!

Thanks guys!


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

Thanks Rick and John... I needed to hear those things. Actually I've heard those things over and over and over from the people closest to me, but I'm easily distracted and need to keep being reminded.  (and no, I'm not being sarcastic)

Bottom line, have a plan and practice the plan. Just keep working and shoot good arrows. Let the rest take care of itself.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

thank you for the excellent read from john and rick!!...inspirational,educational,and honest!!....


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## Paula (Sep 8, 2009)

Good stuff!!!!!!!


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

midwayarcherywi said:


> It looks as if curling has its act together. And I've seen curling on TV. Strategy, teamwork, drama, all while you can see the object being delivered into the scoring zone. I enjoyed watching it. No, I'm not a curler.


I'm not sure curling is even a sport.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

It's as much a sport as archery is. And in fact, since there is strategy and you can affect your opponent's play, one could argue it's more interesting and more of a sport than archery... Which is probably why it gets more viewers. 

I've said for years that until we can find a way to defend our own targets, we won't have any viewers...

As for what some sports spend, I almost fell out when I heard the announcers talking about the money that was spent on downhill racer's skis. More than our entire NAA budget, easily. 

I'm sure glad that Archery is a sport where someone can reach a very competitive level with reasonably priced equipment.

John.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> . It's as much a sport as archery is. And in fact, since there is strategy and you can affect your opponent's play, one could argue it's more interesting and more of a sport than archery... Which is probably why it gets more viewers. .


I was just being facetious. It's played in almost every old folks home in the nation...just not on ice.




limbwalker said:


> .
> 
> I've said for years that until we can find a way to defend our own targets, we won't have any viewers...
> 
> John.


How about we all shoot at one target and any robinhoods "take out" your opponents score.


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

target1 said:


> How about we all shoot at one target and any robinhoods "take out" your opponents score.


Bring on the steel nocks


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## 3arrows (Mar 4, 2008)

Rick and John,
Thanks fellas, really!

I've had big dreams for a long time now, don't know if I can make it happen or not but I'm going to try. 

I've but one small hurdle, one that's plagued me for (19yrs.) almost as long as my dreams of shooting recurve, and that hurdle is shoulder surgery (impingement) in 2 days. Too many fastballs from T-Ball thru the year I dropped out of college. Couldn't stand the pain to throw a ball as hard as I could any longer...one dream gone, another took it's place and I've never looked back. My love for archery from age 12 totally consumed me.

It's been 13 loooong years since I shot an arrow in a tournament. Since that time the desire to be competitive in recurve archery has never been kindled. I've spent thousands of hours on the net, bought and studied videos and books, literally staying awake all thru the nights studying about form, watching others, using my own videos from back in the day. 

It's been a long time for me and I have set a very personal goal, very high. Life has no meaning if we can't dream. 

At age 37, the words to that old song "we've got a long way to go and short time to get there" are ever ringing in my ears. However, I feel I cannot afford to try and do too much too soon as regards my healing. I can only hope that I have made the right decision to go ahead with surgery.

Rick, John, 
Even with the hurdle of surgery around the corner, each of your words are inspiring . especially, since losing my job almost 1 year ago. The thoughts of finding another job and buying equipment plague me. Still, I know God has blessed me and it could be worse.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

b.mcnice said:


> from Yahoo news:
> http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ys-forbesolycosts020110&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


The biggest cost is the time that cannot be reclaimed.


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## 6cuda6 (Nov 10, 2008)

I think this is one fo the best reads on AT...thanks guys for an inside look at what being a TRUE sportmans is all about!!!


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## yddean (Jan 26, 2010)

Thank you all from a father wanting to teach and a 14 year old daughter with Olympic dreams.
Living on Vancouver Island - a short trip from our Olympic venues - has inspired many of us to pursue our dreams and goals to compete. 
Thank you for re-affirming that it's not just the ultra elite that can make their goals reachable.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> The biggest cost is the time that cannot be reclaimed.


Bob, that's true, but the way I look at it - the training should be it's own reward. At least, that's what it's always been to me. I push myself to see what I'm capable of. To me, that's the real goal. Whereever that puts me at an event is what it is...



> Thank you for re-affirming that it's not just the ultra elite that can make their goals reachable.


Heck, I'm not even "elite" much less "ultra-elite." 

We worry WAY too much about status and privelege in this country. The great thing about sports like archery is that the arrows and target know neither... 

John.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

some sports are more capital intensive than others. Some you can actually have a huge advantage with money. Example-Kim Rohde -a clay target shooter. Her father spent a couple hundred k per year for her training. You shoot a thousand targets a day (which is more than I shot in a month when I was a top collegiate) and if you can handle that, you are gonna be world class especially given how few people seriously train in Double Trap. If you have a top of the line horse and you have the time to travel, you can make a pretty good run at making a US equestrian team


100 Meter dash? table tennis? 100 Freestyle? US Dream team? Money isn't going to help much there. That's genetics at work on top of years of training. same with the brutal conditioning sports-marathon, cross country skiing, 10,000 meter speed skate event.


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## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

target1 said:


> I'm not sure curling is even a sport.


wow, that is very inlightenedukey:, if you only knew


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

target1 said:


> I'm not sure curling is even a sport.


Curling is more of a sport than competitive eating. 

Frankly, competitive eating gets more money than curling does. 

-Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jeffw (Dec 7, 2004)

Just what I was afraid of......it is me and not my equipment


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## ac777 (Nov 13, 2008)

Good read, Some people get way too caught up in equipment, my self included at times. Thanks for the reminder once again.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Jim C said:


> some sports are more capital intensive than others. Some you can actually have a huge advantage with money. Example-Kim Rohde -a clay target shooter. Her father spent a couple hundred k per year for her training. You shoot a thousand targets a day (which is more than I shot in a month when I was a top collegiate) and if you can handle that, you are gonna be world class especially given how few people seriously train in Double Trap. (snip)


Yeah, but Double Trap is a totally different (to me) type of sporting clays than most....and more difficult in my opinion.

Plus, didn't Double Trap get dropped for 2012?

-Steve


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Beastmaster said:


> Yeah, but Double Trap is a totally different (to me) type of sporting clays than most....and more difficult in my opinion.
> 
> Plus, didn't Double Trap get dropped for 2012?
> 
> -Steve


yeah, a lady from my club came in 4th in 96-Terry Wentzel DeWitt. I carried a 96.5 average my best year in Olympic skeet shooting maybe an average of 200 targets a week over a year. I can imagine what I could have done shooting a thousand targets a day! (probably be so sick of skeet I would have quit after a couple months)

DT was dropped for women due to the very low number of women around the world shooting it. it originally was sold as a ladies sport because at one time women could win slots in skeet but had to shoot in the open event (A chinese lady won in 88 on targets Matt Dryke told me were american speed rather than real international speed and all the top men were screwed up by the slow targets)


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

jeffw said:


> Just what I was afraid of......it is me and not my equipment


Hehe. You bring up a good point. 

There's an adult archer that frequents the shop I teach for. In 4 weeks, he's traded a Mathews Apex 7 for my PSE BowMadness XL, and a 2009 Hoyt ProElite with C2's for my 2009 Hoyt Vantage Pro - all in an attempt to better things with technology. 

The guy is an excellent archer, when nothing gets into his head. In the indoor realm, he's capable of 300 level scoring...as long as his head is clear. 

I didn't mind the trades - I think I came out on the better end of the deal! But some people do think it's the equipment. 

-Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> The guy is an excellent archer, when nothing gets into his head


I think that's the key here. To me, folks who constantly switch equipment have a mental hurdle, same as any other excuse IMO. We all want to shoot the best gear we can afford, but excuses come in many forms... Not trying to sound harsh, but sooner or later, if an archer is to improve they have to move beyond focusing on their equipment... 

John.


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

I was aat car show a decade or two ago and one custom GTO really caught my eye. 
The owner was with the car polishing cloth in hand. I can still emember that every detail of that car was spotless. I asked the owner "how many hours of work do you have in this car". 

He looked at me for a minute and said " I think you are asking about the wrong unit of measurement".

Reminds me of the archery effort required to consistently shoot good scores.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Serious Fun said:


> The biggest cost is the time that cannot be reclaimed.


I think that the loss of time is not really the concern a person should have. I remember someone telling me that in four years you can go to college (no matter what age you are) and get a degree or in four years you can do nothing and still not have a degree. Time is relative as to what you want to accomplish but as John and others have mentioned here, it is really about the journey. I have listened to many archers who hesitate about committing to train hard to make the Olympic team. Some have mentioned that they hope it is worth the effort if they are willing to “sacrifice” the time for themselves and family in order to make the team. Thus, odds are they will not make it because they have put a price on the effort. There is no price on making the Olympic team. I remember listening to a female figure skater one year giving a talk on her efforts to make the team. The training, the time spent, the “sacrifice”. She said that when she was standing on top of the winner’s stand, she realized that if she knew how it felt to be there, she would have trained even harder. There is nothing like it. 

Does it take money? Yes…but there are ways to be efficient with that money and yes, you can do it for far less money than you think. What sport allows you to even train in your own home to keep your consistent form by just shooting on a blank bale? It is not 100% of your training but it will help a lot, more so than most people think. Unfortunately those who disagree with blank bale training have not figure out the transition between blank bale and target training, short distance and long distance, indoor and outdoor, etc. Just remember, some people train 80% of their time indoors due to weather issues and they have figured out how to make that transition between indoor (short distance and no weather elements) to outdoor (long distance and lots of weather elements) in about a week or so. 

And if it is age you are concerned with, don’t tell Butch Johnson or Ed Eliason. Or maybe Ed shows you that around the age of 70 you may have to consider slowing down….


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Rick McKinney said:


> I think that the loss of time is not really the concern a person should have. I remember someone telling me that in four years you can go to college (no matter what age you are) and get a degree or in four years you can do nothing and still not have a degree. Time is relative as to what you want to accomplish but as John and others have mentioned here, it is really about the journey. I have listened to many archers who hesitate about committing to train hard to make the Olympic team. Some have mentioned that they hope it is worth the effort if they are willing to “sacrifice” the time for themselves and family in order to make the team. Thus, odds are they will not make it because they have put a price on the effort. There is no price on making the Olympic team. I remember listening to a female figure skater one year giving a talk on her efforts to make the team. The training, the time spent, the “sacrifice”. She said that when she was standing on top of the winner’s stand, she realized that if she knew how it felt to be there, she would have trained even harder. There is nothing like it.
> 
> Does it take money? Yes…but there are ways to be efficient with that money and yes, you can do it for far less money than you think. What sport allows you to even train in your own home to keep your consistent form by just shooting on a blank bale? It is not 100% of your training but it will help a lot, more so than most people think. Unfortunately those who disagree with blank bale training have not figure out the transition between blank bale and target training, short distance and long distance, indoor and outdoor, etc. Just remember, some people train 80% of their time indoors due to weather issues and they have figured out how to make that transition between indoor (short distance and no weather elements) to outdoor (long distance and lots of weather elements) in about a week or so.
> 
> And if it is age you are concerned with, don’t tell Butch Johnson or Ed Eliason. Or maybe Ed shows you that around the age of 70 you may have to consider slowing down….


Hi Rick,
So the cost is determined emotional commitment? Is it a religion? Perhaps a life long one?


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## 3arrows (Mar 4, 2008)

Rick McKinney said:


> I think that the loss of time is not really the concern a person should have...
> ...And if it is age you are concerned with, don’t tell Butch Johnson or Ed Eliason. Or maybe Ed shows you that around the age of 70 you may have to consider slowing down….


Rick has caused me to stop and think about my own statements.

Let's see...fellas who's form I've tried to study, and archers who I've always admired and are still shooting at least to some extent.

1. Darrell Pace
2. Rick McKinney
3. Butch Johnson
4. Jay Barrs
5. Ed Elliason

I suppose I mentioned my age because of the desire to do this for so long. I didn't take the time to stop and consider the ages of some of the people whom I've admired that are still shooting.

JimC your name came up this evening in conversation at the shop. It was all good, really. Thanks again for the hospitality in the past. I'm hoping that after my shoulder heals you can help me out a bit.

Surgery...well it was cancelled this evening for tomorrow because of the crappy weather. I want this over with so I can get to shooting ASAP.


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## 3arrows (Mar 4, 2008)

Just goes to show you how many things can get in the way of our mental game. 

Rick, I wasn't even aware of my own thought process until your last post. It seems I was setting myself up for failure thinking that my age is the greatest factor. 

Thanks!

Bill


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Serious Fun said:


> Hi Rick,
> So the cost is determined emotional commitment? Is it a religion? Perhaps a life long one?


Bob, I think there is an emotional commitment but it is more about enjoyment. I am not sure if I have really ever met anyone who was really good who did not enjoy shooting. They did not feel forced to train nor did they have problems wanting to get out there and shoot their bow & arrow. Most think about archery all day long and can’t wait to get out there and shoot. However, they can still live a “normal” life like all others. The major difference I see is that they do learn about time management and learn to do more than the average person when it comes to having a job, a family and still find time to train. It’s all about priorities and managing their time.

It is not a religion. For some, it may be a cult. However, since you bring up religion, I firmly believe that the Lord gave you all the tools to excel in whatever you put your mind to. You drift into either a sport or job that fits you (He nudges you). You are given a window of opportunity to be prepared to take advantage of your “GOD given talent” but you still have to be prepared in order to succeed. 

There are two phrases I always like to remember and they had a great impact on me. The first one, I read somewhere and wrote it down years ago and even put it in my book. “All you have to give is all you have.” Most people give about 75% to 95%. I struggle to understand why they don’t always give 100% but I have my suspicions. One of the biggest is fear of failure. If you never give it 100% you can always tell yourself (subconsciously) that you didn’t give it all you had so you really didn’t fail. Have you noticed that equipment failure has a lot to do with not succeeding for some? Sometimes it is very hard to accept defeat if you give it your all. Myself, on the other hand, have always believed that I win if I give it 100% even if I don’t take home a medal. 

The other phrase is from a dear friend who gave Sheri a gift that says, “FAITH is daring the soul to go beyond what the eye can see.” This just reminds me to have faith in my shot, my training and the Lord. If I am meant to win, I will. If not, at least give it all you have. There is no other way. Again, it is all about that window of opportunity. If you are not prepared to take advantage of it, it just will not happen. 

Life long? I think it is deep inside of champions. We grow into archery to where eventually it is in our blood whether we want it or not. However, many champions move on and live a normal life. Many continue to be a part of archery but not as much in the competitive world. They may own an archery shop, lead a JOAD program, coach, officiate, work with challenged archers, own a manufacturing company, work in the archery organizations and many other “behind the scenes” archery lives. And finally others just are not willing to give up competing…(Ed).

Bill, good luck on the surgery. Patience will be very important as you heal.


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## 3arrows (Mar 4, 2008)

Gosh Rick...you've given us some great food to digest in this thread.

A wise ol' preacher, whose gone on to be with the Lord, once told me; "Do the best you can, with what you have, where you are at."

I've never forgotten that.

Archery...yep it's definately in my blood. Even in an off period I try to visualize myself in my minds eye, standing at the line going thru my shot sequence. I can see myself draw, aim, and see the arrow hit the X. Sometimes, after watching many videos of myself, I can see myself in a different angle upon release. Some I've talked with can't seem to visualize this, or even understand what I'm saying, but it definately happens with me.

Bill


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## b.mcnice (Mar 24, 2008)

*2 against 1*



midwayarcherywi said:


> It looks as if curling has its act together. And I've seen curling on TV. Strategy, teamwork, drama, all while you can see the object being delivered into the scoring zone. I enjoyed watching it. No, I'm not a curler.


Check it out.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/Canadian-curler-is-five-months-pregnant?urn=oly,219941


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Most think about archery all day long and can’t wait to get out there and shoot.


Uh-huh... 

Rick, I agree that -all other things being equal- this one thing is probably what seperates the really great from the really good. And I also believe that it's either something you have or you don't. You can't manufacture that kind of desire...



> I firmly believe that the Lord gave you all the tools to excel in whatever you put your mind to. You drift into either a sport or job that fits you (He nudges you). You are given a window of opportunity to be prepared to take advantage of your “GOD given talent” but you still have to be prepared in order to succeed.


Great comment. I can attest to that firsthand. 

Training for some, takes on a negative connotation. If that's the case, then I truly am sorry for those who feel that way, as they will never reach their full potential. If training has become a chore, then IMO you need to step back and re-evaluate where you're at, what your goals are, and how you're going to achieve them. Training should always be an opportunity, and never a chore. God gives us these opportunities to train. It is up to us to take them. Just the mere fact that any archer can stand 70 meters away from a target and hit it with a bow and arrow is reason to rejoice in my view. Because there are billions of people who will never have that opportunity.

John.


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## S. Arnold (Feb 16, 2010)

I've read post on this site for years and finally decided this thread was worth finally logging in and commenting on.

I was the other underdog who made the Olympic Team in 2004 with Limbwalker. I went to the trials with an old Yamaha bow that my dad had for probably close to 10 years or more, X10's that I had shot for a couple of years, a hand me down Sureloc sight, and a cheap stabilizer and finger tab. You don't need the best equipment to make a team or travel to tournaments and be competitive.

Like others have said, I used the time I did have in my day to make my practice count. I only had to walk down to the end of my driveway and could get up to 80 meters. I put duck tape on the back of my targets to make the centers last longer, worked a full-time job, was married and had a family. I had never been to the Olympic Training Center and worked with my dad, who was my coach. FREE coaching--doesn't get any better than that. 

The quote that has stuck with me over the years in regards to pursuing archery or an Olympic team was one that my dad said, "You're not going to become rich or famous, even if you do make a team, so you better have fun at what you're doing." I did have fun training and looking back should have lightened up some during competitions.

I'm not competitively shooting anymore; however, I did shoot compound for the past few years just to have a bow in my hands. But like others have said, once a competitor, always a competitor. I will always have a special place in my heart for archery and hopefully one day will pick back up the recurve and give some younger girls a run for their money. In the meantime, I'll continue to coach our middle school NASP team and take them to the state tournament here in Indiana.

If the Lord has put a dream in your heart, pursue it with passion. And remember, what you think about is what you bring about. Think like a champion and you'll get there.


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks Rick.

I have copied your discussion and will post on my practice area white board to review during my practice sessions.

By the way great arrows.


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## cityhic (Jan 3, 2009)

*Best thread*

:darkbeer:


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## scriv (Jan 31, 2008)

*Thanks*

Thanks to John and Rick. As a father of a very promising young archer with big dreams developing I was afraid to read this post. Not only have my fears been comforted I have been encouraged to believe in the dream with her. Thank you.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Scriv, I am glad that you are listening. It is very frustrating to listen to parents and kids say that the RA program or the Junior Dream Team is the only way you will get anywhere in archery or you have to travel all over the world “to get the experience.” I personally disagree with this method. Shoot the local events first and become good at them. Then shoot the state events and become good at them. Then shoot the regional events and become good at them. Then shoot the national events and become good at them and finally you should be ready to deal with the international arena. 

Now, why do I say this? The mind is a sensitive thing and if you continuously are beaten by far more experienced people, it leaves a very strong impression of an impossible goal for you. You should be learning using baby steps. Learn in your club level and become the club champion. This is just the beginning of the physical and mental development. Work your way up gradually. This allows your physical and mental development to grow appropriately. These lessons you learn as you work your way up the developmental stages will stay with you and help build your confidence. Does it take a while to learn correctly? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes. 

One of the things I have seen many times is that those who climb the ladder too quickly and steeply have a hard time dealing with any obstacles that may come their way. As has been said time and again, you learn from your mistakes and this is normal. However, if you do not make mistakes while climbing so fast you will not know how to deal with a mistake when it does happen, and I can assure you, it will happen. 

I know that people today want things now, but I feel that growth needs be slow and steady. Learning the simple way works. It has been proven time and again. And as I have said before, you cannot buy a gold medal, you have to earn it.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Rick McKinney said:


> ...One of the things I have seen many times is that those who climb the ladder too quickly and steeply have a hard time dealing with any obstacles that may come their way. As has been said time and again, you learn from your mistakes and this is normal. However, if you do not make mistakes while climbing so fast you will not know how to deal with a mistake when it does happen, and I can assure you, it will happen...


JOAD parents are "we" reading this?

Thanks Rick...this reminds me, the AZ Cup registration is open and this year...

Absolutely shameless...


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Rick McKinney said:


> Scriv, I am glad that you are listening. It is very frustrating to listen to parents and kids say that the RA program or the Junior Dream Team is the only way you will get anywhere in archery or you have to travel all over the world “to get the experience.” I personally disagree with this method. Shoot the local events first and become good at them. Then shoot the state events and become good at them. Then shoot the regional events and become good at them. Then shoot the national events and become good at them and finally you should be ready to deal with the international arena.





Serious Fun said:


> JOAD parents are "we" reading this?


Bob and Rick,

This is one of the things that other sports do well. Baseball (my other current coaching fun) goes from T-Ball to coach pitch to machine pitch to kid pitch and onward.

Kids in baseball do not go leaps and bounds - they all take baby steps in progression.

This is where my biggest worry is with the current archery system. The current system has garnered the expectation that you have to automagically leap from being a local club archer into the JDT/Jr. USAT/RA system in order to succeed.

So, being a parent that came from and has coached other sports, you don't go from being in Junior High baseball to going into single A minors in one fell swoop. But the expectation is erroneously placed in the archery world to do exactly that.

Thank you Rick, for pointing that out.

-Steve


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## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

Beastmaster said:


> ...The current system has garnered the expectation that you have to automagically leap from being a local club archer into the JDT/Jr. USAT/RA system in order to succeed.


Actually the way the game is setup now you do have to go this route or it becomes extremely expensive to play at the national level.

In 2006 I shot all the USAT tournaments, Indoor and Outdoor Nationals, Vegas and one World Cup in China. My total cost was about $15,000. My equipement cost out of that was two dozen X10's used for $200 and one set of Samick Masters limbs for $450.

Now take a kid at 15 and go until they're 20 years old before they make an Olympic team and you're in the $50 to $100K range cost just to get the experience if you don't step up to the JDT / RA system.

As much as I admire Stephanie and John for how they did it in 2004, that route is not an option anymore and can never be replicated again.

The bottom line is that becoming an Olympian is extremely expensive these days. It just depends on who is going to be paying for it 

Cheers,
Pete


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## d.dylan (Feb 17, 2010)

c3hammer said:


> Actually the way the game is setup now you do have to go this route or it becomes extremely expensive to play at the national level....
> 
> The bottom line is that becoming an Olympian is extremely expensive these days. It just depends on who is going to be paying for it


Wow, that's alot of $. But, I thought that anyone could practice by themselves, show up at the Olympic trials, and earn a place on the us archery team? Is USAT at a requirement and is there a pre-olympic trial requirement to compete for a spot?


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## flamegoddess (Mar 16, 2009)

d.dylan said:


> Wow, that's alot of $. But, I thought that anyone could practice by themselves, show up at the Olympic trials, and earn a place on the us archery team? Is USAT at a requirement and is there a pre-olympic trial requirement to compete for a spot?


You can just show up at World Team Trials and shoot, I did in Conyers last year, and wasn't even last and I'd only been shooting seriously for less than a year at that point, with a hand-me-down bow, inexpensive equipment or stuff that my coach gave to me. What being an Olympian costs, is time. 10,000 hours to make an Olympic athlete, according to one the talent/hard work authors. It all boils down to:

Rule #1 It's the archer, not the equipment.
Rule #2 Just shoot.
Rule #3 Please see Rules 1 & 2. 

Cheers!


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

flamegoddess said:


> You can just show up at World Team Trials and shoot, I did in Conyers last year, and wasn't even last and I'd only been shooting seriously for less than a year at that point, with a hand-me-down bow, inexpensive equipment or stuff that my coach gave to me. What being an Olympian costs, is time. 10,000 hours to make an Olympic athlete, according to one the talent/hard work authors. It all boils down to:
> 
> Rule #1 It's the archer, not the equipment.
> Rule #2 Just shoot.
> ...


Good points! Granted, the experience you get by competing at higher levels is certainly beneficial. 

But making the Jr. USAT team is more accessible than ever before! You must compete at JOAD Nationals (this year in Iowa). But other than that, you just have to compete in 2 other qualifying tournaments -- and now there are 2 in every region! So aside from possibly having to fly to Iowa, you can make the team just by driving! (Well, unless you live in Hawaii or Alaska -- then you'll have to swim really far :teeth

Once on Jr USAT, you have the opportunity for funded travel to an international tournament and discounted gear. 

So the question isn't "Can I compete on a shoestring budget?" but rather "Can I be competitive on a shoestring budget?". And that depends on you.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Pete, that’s the normal mentality of most people today. They THINK they have to spend a lot of money to get there and they really don’t. Some of the reason I can think of for this attitude is; 1) that’s what everybody else is doing so you have to do it too. 2) it has to cost this much because it does not make sense to not spend much money and get somewhere of such high importance. 3) I have to spend this money to travel to rub shoulders with the other elites… 4) I have been brain washed to think that the organization says I have to do it all. 

Actually some of those are tongue in check but I think you get my point. Just remember, if you are shooting really good…they want you. The organization, the coaches, and just about everybody else (except your competitors) will want you on that team. No, you may not get to travel to great places like Honduras, or Czech Republic or Turkey….to shoot some of the World Cups in the beginning, but if you are shooting good…they will want you badly. 

Don’t forget folks, the USOC was given a lot of responsibility via US Congress in 1968. That is to allow each and every US citizen to possibility to make an Olympic Team without prejudice or financial obstacles. I am paraphrasing but this essentially means that race cannot play into it nor can people who do not have a lot of money be left out. That is why the registration cost is minimal for Olympic Trials. Yes, there can be several trial attempts to discourage this, but if it gets to be too much then the USOC can come down really hard on the USAA for doing this. 

The most important think is being able to shoot the score and again I will preface that if you shoot the scores you will have no problem and all that takes is lots of practice.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> that route is not an option anymore and can never be replicated again.


Pete, you may be right, but I hope you are not correct about that. 

I agree with Rick. If you're shooting the scores (regardless of how you became able to do that) the opportunities will come. 

I know you and I have been engaged in the discussion about the "openness" of the Oly. trials in 2008. The situation was certainly more difficult than it was for us in 2004, and it played a part in my absence from the 2008 trials along with several others who couldn't spare the time. There must be some kind of compromise so that the opportunity is available to everyone, but then also so the team that is chosen has a real chance to train and compete together before the games. I don't think there is a "right" answer, but the further we get from 2004, the more it appears as though that VERY open process didn't really hurt us, as it remains the highest finish a U.S. team has had at an Oly. or outdoor world champ's since Sydney. :mg:

John.


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## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

I think it's terribly unrealistic to believe that because you can shoot good scores in your back yard, you can go into an Olympic Trials and then the Olympics and perform at your best without experience.

Rick, you can't use yourself as an example here. There's only ever been one of you in the history of the sport 

For everyone else they have to learn to believe they can play on the day and there ain't no way that happens in the back yard :shade:

Cheers,
Pete


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Awww shucks Pete! Actually I am one of many who have gotten there by not fitting into mainstream training. Darrell, Denise, Luann, John, etc had very little money when they were working their way up the ladder. And if you get down to it there are far more of us than them! There is one archer who was told at the good old age of 16 that he had to pay for his own way to the tournaments. Now he has several titles, including medals at the Olympics. This guy had no money and yet he found a way to do it on his own. And I am not talking about me and he still is competing. Now, I know I lived in a different era but I see so much waste out at the events and most of the archers are not even ready to be at the level they think they are. 

Where I think you and I differ is you are missing several steps to getting to the Olympics. Yes, you are telling the truth. That an archer can’t make an Olympic Team by just training in their back yard. However, that is the first step. Then they need to get good at the local level. Then they need to get good at the regional level, etc. I said this before, but I am sure you missed it. 

Most ELITE archers will make an Olympic Team between 7 and 10 years of training. When I say ELITE I mean they are ready to take a medal. If you just want to make an Olympic Team and that’s all, then fine, pay your way and make the team. In my book that’s NEVER been good enough. When you make a team, you should be hungry enough to want to win. 

Now, about that cost thing. I never spent more than $5000 a year when I competed at a very high level for my travel expenses and I went to a lot of tournaments. Indoor, Target and Field. Although my expenses were paid for, I still watched how I spent money. I didn’t stay at the 5 star hotels. I didn’t go to the most expensive restaurants nor did I rent the more expensive car and I definitely worked at finding the cheapest tickets. This was when I WAS an elite not just working my way up. Once you get to the level of an elite there will be ways for companies to support you, but until then it’s your dime. 

And don’t forget that even IF you make an Olympic team, there are 63 others in your division who have done the same. So many companies will not do much just because you make a team. You have got to learn how to WIN. That takes training, understanding yourself, your form, your equipment and your mental, understanding the type of score needed to be competitive and feeling comfortable that you can shoot your average under pressure.

Just an example but if I had a child I would help them by learning good solid technique that fits their bone structure. I would take them to all the local events I could and leagues (if they did their homework and chores around the house). We would talk about the scores shot and what step to take next. Once that child is shooting consistently, then I would take them to the State Championships to get a feel of what it is like at that level. That would be all they get for the first year or maybe even the second year. Then as the child developed into more solid and consistent form and understood the mechanics of the equipment then we might even get to go to a big event like the AZ Cup or Gold Cup or whatever Cup that was close to driving. Another year or two might go buy before they get to even go to the nationals. They need to absorb what kind of scores are needed at their level before they go higher. It’s called mental development. Then once they get to shooting some really good scores at home and at club shoots they will be ready for the State event and if they do well there by shooting close to their average they might be ready for the Nationals. Even if they win the Nationals I would probably keep them from the international scene until they had a year under their belt of dealing with the pressure of being the fox who is being chased instead of chasing the fox. This may take another couple of years. Then once they can keep their composure under pressure for any national event, they are ready to go try out for an international event like Championship of the Americas or a region cup event including Canada, Mexico, and maybe Central America. If they can handle that, they are ready to get to the big international events against Europe and Asia. 

These things take time and if you want the right development for your child you take the time for them to develop into a champion not by forcing the issue. Some may grow faster than others. That will all depend on them. As for an adult you still have to deal with your mental game and that takes time as well. Enjoy the journey and learn everything about yourself before you jump into the lion’s den. Being prepared is so much more fun AND you will be more prepared to take on the ELITE archers. And just maybe they may think that you are a 10 year overnight success!


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## cityhic (Jan 3, 2009)

*me first*



Rick McKinney said:


> Just an example but if I had a child I would help them by....


Rick,
When your ready for a instant family I know of a 30-something year old kid you can adopt. I want to learn from the master.
:darkbeer:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I think it's terribly unrealistic to believe that because you can shoot good scores in your back yard, you can go into an Olympic Trials and then the Olympics and perform at your best without experience.


It would be perfectly logical for me to agree with that statement if I hadn't done exactly that myself... It makes perfect sense and follows "conventional wisdom" to a "T". Only, some folks don't believe in conventional wisdom... 

I see no problems with "back yard" training... except, well, it was actually my front yard... 

Pete, when I left for the trials in '04, I had been averaging 330+ scores in training at my "semi-private" Olympic training center (occasionally, friends would shoot with me so it wasn't completely 'private' - LOL!) I had, on occasion and in good conditions, broken 340 a number of times with no more coaching than Rick's wonderful book, a video camera and the internet videos of world class archers that I studied over and over until I could see them in my mind. 

I made the conscious decision not to listen to those who told me what I could or could not do and went to Ohio and opened up the trials with a 332 in wind, followed by winning 11 of 13 12-arrow matches against Vic, Butch, and the rest of the best archers in the U.S..

If a person puts in the work to be able to shoot the scores - no matter what style they use or where those scores are shot - then there is no good reason they can't reproduce that performance in competition. They just have to figure out how to stay out of their own way.

Archery is a great sport in that you only need a bow, a target and some space to train to elite levels of competition. If a person doesn't belive that, then they are their own biggest obstacle.

Telling someone they need all sorts of coaching, fancy training centers, expensive equipment, etc. would be akin to telling the African marathoners that they've been training the wrong way all along. It just doesn't have to be that complicated. We just like to make it complicated. Making an Olympic team seems like such an insurmountable goal that it is easy to believe one needs incredible amounts of help to get there... For some, it's more comforting to believe that because it takes all the focus off the individual and creates lots of room to spread the blame around if it never happens. 



> but I see so much waste out at the events and most of the archers are not even ready to be at the level they think they are.


Yup. :darkbeer:

John.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Great posts all of you Olympic archers! I'll be copying and pasting these in a document to show our JOAD kids. 

Love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

as a past member of a special committee for archery under our national olympic committee and who also have to recommend archers for international events i can appreciate and understand where rick/john and pete are coming from....and both make good points..

i honestly feel that both paths have their merits---it will all depend on the individual which one to take to best accomplish their goal...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

jmvargas, I agree and will be the first to admit that my path worked for me but it won't work for everyone. Nor will Rick's or Brady's or Vic's. Successful archers combine their talents and desire with the right approach FOR THEM.

Some never have all three, and fail to reach their potential because of that. 

Here's to those who just try in the first place. :darkbeer: Because it is a noble thing to simply put forth the effort, regardless of the outcome.

John.


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## DariusXV (Feb 18, 2009)

It's very inspirational to read the success stories of Olympians on here.

Stephanie, John, and Rick...thank you for sharing and thank you for simply sticking to your dreams. That's what makes life worth living.

It is a real downer sometimes to read that it can only be done "this way" or you have no chance. That is one thing I really appreciate about our country...you may be on your own to do something, but at least there are venues to reach for your goal.

I've never felt that natural selection (and/or governmental selection) was the ideal way to choose athletes (or anything, for that matter...). It's all about the WILL.

The path seems hard. I've met a lot of wonderful people in the short time I've been involved in this sport. I've also met some pretty rotten people. But, I'm appreciative of everything I've learned and everyone I've met so far. 

So, again, thank you for sharing your stories and advice. Please know that it means a lot to those of us who still burn within.


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## RMBX10 (Jun 20, 2002)

Rick McKinney said:


> Awww shucks Pete! Actually I am one of many who have gotten there by not fitting into mainstream training. Darrell, Denise, Luann, John, etc had very little money when they were working their way up the ladder. And if you get down to it there are far more of us than them! There is one archer who was told at the good old age of 16 that he had to pay for his own way to the tournaments. Now he has several titles, including medals at the Olympics. This guy had no money and yet he found a way to do it on his own. And I am not talking about me and he still is competing. Now, I know I lived in a different era but I see so much waste out at the events and most of the archers are not even ready to be at the level they think they are.
> 
> Rick,
> I'm pretty sure I know the person you're referring to here. That same person said to me, mostly in jest, when I was 18 (13 years ago) after a company paid for my flight to NFAA Nationals (you beat me at that one), "you have it so easy, when I was your age I sold my dirt bike to go to nationals." And by the way, as I'm sure you know, he's still as frugal now as he was all those many years ago when he was 16.


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## BowMakr (Sep 13, 2009)

I love this thread. It's been a great read - I don't believe the amount you spend determines your success, but I can't help but point out that only the Olympians can really talk about the cost of becoming an Olympian. The rest of us can only relate "The cost of failing to become an Olympian." ;-)


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

It seems to me, in this day and age, we have become consumers. The solution usually is to go out and buy it...but it usually takes alot of money. We want success and are willing to pay for it as long as it comes to us NOW.

We have forgot how to work. Work to get where we want to be. Work for what we want to have. And work for what we want to acheive.

Unfortunately, many parents today, want fame and fortune for their children and are willing to pay big bucks for it. And there are many people willing to help them, for a price. While archery and success can be money driven...the real success comes when the will and the strength of the competitor rises above the odds and stands tall and achieves thier hopes and dreams.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> We have forgot how to work


Target1, I agree with what you wrote. However, I and others like Rick never saw our training as "work" at all. On the contrary in fact, I always looked forward to a long shooting or training session because I knew it meant I was going to get better. And I just enjoy the process. To me, that has always been it's own reward, whether or not I even competed. I am going to shoot a lot (always have), so it just made sense to learn as much as possible and shoot those arrows in the smartest, most focused way I could - and then see where that takes me.

Now, I know there are a LOT of archers out there who love to shoot. That is leg 1 of the three-legged stool. You MUST love to shoot. Not just "enjoy" shooting, but love it like Rick talked about in the "can't wait to get home every day to shoot" sense.

The other two legs of the stool in my mind are 2) intelligent preparation (in whatever form that takes, whether it be outside or internal coaching, and understanding equipment), and 3) raw talent. Most good archers I know are talented athletes also great at many other things as well. And unfortunately this is something that a person either has or they don't. However, without the first two legs, they may never know how sturdy "leg #3" really is... 

John.


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## happyface (Feb 1, 2010)

one of the best threads 

same here limbwalker when ever it came to Practice i do not see it as work or something i have to do (like school) i see it as fun and yes you do not need the best equipment iv seen people with one of the club bows beat someone who has got the top of the line hoyt archery equipment
The thing i mostly love about the sport is the Social side of the sport meeting up with old friend and even making new friends


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## scriv (Jan 31, 2008)

midwayarcherywi said:


> Great posts all of you Olympic archers! I'll be copying and pasting these in a document to show our JOAD kids.
> 
> Love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life.


I agree with Gabe. I'll be copying this for my daughters. Rick, we have your book and have enjoyed it very much. Your comments validate my approach to my daughters, as I have controlled their tournament exposure and allowed them to experience success before proceeding to the next step. They have enjoyed competing (and winning) at the State and regional level during their first year in Tournament Archery, and will experience the Nationals in a few weeks. Thanks to all. Dave


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## niloc_king (Jun 10, 2009)

*Enjoyed this read*

iv enjoyed the insight on this tread about quality of equipment in relation to archer skill. for years i had been all about blaming the equipment but in the past 3 years i began to look at myself more seriously as the problem. in these past 3 years i have seen the most improvement because of my focus on myself rather than the equipment. 

but as for hours "lost" from training. i dont see as a loss. days that i shoot i find very enjoyable and i usually cant wait to shoot on days that i plan on shooting. and even if i dont make it to the elite pro level atleast i have a skill that i could teach to my own kids aswell as other people wanting to learn.


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## b.mcnice (Mar 24, 2008)

cityhic said:


> :darkbeer:


Indeed. This thread deserves a bump with summer approaching and nationals around the corner.

Thank you Stephanie, John, and Rick.


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## red_elan10 (Apr 23, 2008)

RMBX10 said:


> Rick McKinney said:
> 
> 
> > Awww shucks Pete! Actually I am one of many who have gotten there by not fitting into mainstream training. Darrell, Denise, Luann, John, etc had very little money when they were working their way up the ladder. And if you get down to it there are far more of us than them! There is one archer who was told at the good old age of 16 that he had to pay for his own way to the tournaments. Now he has several titles, including medals at the Olympics. This guy had no money and yet he found a way to do it on his own. And I am not talking about me and he still is competing. Now, I know I lived in a different era but I see so much waste out at the events and most of the archers are not even ready to be at the level they think they are.
> ...


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## jbc98c (Sep 10, 2009)

This has been a fun read. Especially since I'm sitting in Seatac for a flight that was delayed. Hopefully I will catch my connecting flight...

But anyway,
Each person has a legitimate point. It is all dependant on the person. Strength of mind and will are two of the most important factors involved. For John, it seems as though he was confident in his abilities. He didn't have to go to many many tournaments all the time to get better. 

For others, that may not work as well. Being a college student, training is scarce as it is. Most of my training sessions don't even involve arrows. Just strength, form, and release training. It works for me and I am confident when I go out shooting that I can hit decent scores. 

But that's just me. :smile:


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## dotarchery (Jun 1, 2008)

S. Arnold said:


> The quote that has stuck with me over the years in regards to pursuing archery or an Olympic team was one that my dad said, "You're not going to become rich or famous, even if you do make a team, so you better have fun at what you're doing." I did have fun training and looking back should have lightened up some during competitions.


By far, the best archery advice I've ever read.
:darkbeer:


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

This thread needs to be read by the newer members of AT because its really inspirational. Im still looking for my first competitive bow on a budget but I have hopes of one day making it to a National event, at least as a spectator. This thread just made my hopes and dreams a little bigger.


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## RMBX10 (Jun 20, 2002)

red_elan10 said:


> RMBX10 said:
> 
> 
> > You are both correct, and I've heard that story as well. I assume you are talking about Butch - and I know he's okay with having this information discussed - he scraped and struggled for a lot of years to get himself to tournaments before sponsor dollars ever helped. More than anything, then and now, he shoots out of love for the sport, plain and simple.
> ...


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## Strotherized (Dec 12, 2010)

Awesome thread! Thankyou all!!


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## ArmyHooah (Jan 26, 2011)

After being out of competitive shooting for almost 8-9 years. I am in the process of making an appearance this summer. I have to agree, this can be a rather expensive sport. 

Even with me thinking about camping or staying at KOA's it is still going to cost between 400-1000 per tournament to get to and back from. Not to mention the time away from work. I have older equipment with stressed limbs and arrows that have seen better days. Adding in just what I will need to get is adding up also. All said and done I won't be able to even think about being a true competitor unless I have around 5-7k to work with for four tournament.

It all adds up, it is just a matter of how much you really want it. Family comes first, which is why I haven't shot in 8-9 years.


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## b.mcnice (Mar 24, 2008)

*archery tuition*

Yeah, the cost of attending ranking competitions costs alot of money. Here's what one parent shared....



gairsz said:


> I can tell you the cost to be #1 on the Junior USAT list is not LOW cost. My son was the #1 ranked Cadet archer in the country last year and it cost me a little over 14K. This year, still a cadet, he finished #1 in the Junior class and it also cost a little over 14K. That is $28,000 in two years, because, every time a minor shows up at tournament they have an adult with them, so the cost doubles for the kids to compete.


For the serious archer saving $7K for college and spending $7K on archery competitions doesn't work because you have attend all of the competitions for ranking purposes. A year of attending ranking competitions is close to the cost of a year of college tuition (public state college not Ivy). With limited funds we'd have to choose between saving for college and attending archery competitions. It would be nice to have enough funds to do both. 
:mg:


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Excellent guys...very excellent. We could use more of this insight from time to time...the common sense kind of insight.

My question is, with the new ranking system, and the necessity to shoot at specific events to qualify for the Oly team...isn't this a monetary impingement on most who would like to try for the Olympic team?

I'm not sure, but for a person to make the Olympic team, they can't do it the way John did anymore, Correct?


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

ArtV said:


> Excellent guys...very excellent. We could use more of this insight from time to time...the common sense kind of insight.
> 
> My question is, with the new ranking system, and the necessity to shoot at specific events to qualify for the Oly team...isn't this a monetary impingement on most who would like to try for the Olympic team?
> 
> I'm not sure, but for a person to make the Olympic team, they can't do it the way John did anymore, Correct?


To make it to the Olympics, you only have to shoot in 3 nomination shoots. The first is 4 days long in September/October in Texas, open to all. The second 2 shoots are only open to the top 16 and top 8 from the previous shoots. USA Archery has said that they will provide travel support for these follow-up trials. 

So, you would have to be able to take a week off work in 2011 and pay to travel to Texas. You would have to take 2 weeks off work in 2012 (the dates for the 2nd 2 shoots are not set yet, so this could be 2011), plus time off for the actual Olympic Games.

So, yes, you CAN make the Olympic Team with very little output of money (travel to 1 tournament) or time off from work (3 weeks over 2 years). It is possible to go to the Olympics without shelling out a lot of cash. What people actually spend to get there may be different, but it can be done.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Good post. And I agree. It really won't be any more difficult or expensive to try for the Oly. team this go-round than what we were asked to do in '04, except perhaps for the top 16, and probably a bit more for the top 8. But then, if an archer can make it that far, I hardly think that a few weeks of their time is anything to complain about. 

Art knows this, but what some folks either don't know or like to ignore is that I shot in 4 national tournaments, including 3 USAT ranking events (NFAA Indoor Nationals, TX Shootout, Gold Cup and Oly. Trials) in 2004 and traveled quite a distance to each of them. Now, I drove and yes, I did sleep in my van at state parks on several trips, but it still cost me gas and lodging, entry fees and food, etc. It also cost me about 2 weeks off work before I made the team, then another 2 weeks after (for training camp and the Grand Prix event in Turkey) and then finally another 3 weeks for the games. I effectively zeroed out almost 5 years worth of vacation time that I had saved to that point. 

Another little-known fact is that my goal that year was to qualify for the 2005 US Archery Team (USAT) and not the Olympics. So I carefully planned my trips to ranking events toward that end. The Oly. trials were a ranking event that year, and happened to be the closest USAT event to my home, so it made sense for me to go. Ironically, I debated about skipping the trials so I could save for nationals. Glad I didn't do that now... 

Last thing I'll mention (for those that need to be reminded or haven't done their homework before spouting off at the fingertips) is that when it was all said and done at the end of 2004, my national ranking was #4 in the U.S. So, to think that the #1, 2 and 4 ranked archers took the top 3 spots to make the Olympic team that year is somehow a failure of the process is just not paying attention to the facts. Only person that really has a gripe is Joe McGlyn, and he made the world championship team the following year (deservedly so too). 

Anyway, all one can do is try. Hope to see you all here in Texas in the fall. I was thrilled to find out that the first nomination shoot will only be 75 minutes from my home...!

John


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

I've done a "John"...lol. Found a neighbor who doesn't mind me shooting in their yard....I can get a nice breezy 100 yards. And a good barn for indoor range.
No more shooting from the kitchen, down the hall, through the den, to the entrance way to get a 20 yard shot indoors. all doors blocked for safety.

Good read and great advise guys and gals....this should get a sticky for sure. hope the powers that be catch on and make a permanent post of it.

John, sorry for the mistake in what it took back in 04 to make it...I guess my memory was misdirected from a post I read last year.
You earned what you got.. a slot on the Olympic Team..hard work, discipline and a bunch of raw talent makes the grade everytime.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Rick is probably more aware of this, but I think I read that Jay Barrs practically lived in his car to make the events he needed to make the team..driving to events and then sleepin in his car, eating out of sandwich bags.


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## ArmyHooah (Jan 26, 2011)

ArtV said:


> Rick is probably more aware of this, but I think I read that Jay Barrs practically lived in his car to make the events he needed to make the team..driving to events and then sleepin in his car, eating out of sandwich bags.


I have a feeling this is what I will be doing this year to get back into it again. The funds just aren't there!


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

ArmyHooah said:


> I have a feeling this is what I will be doing this year to get back into it again. The funds just aren't there!


I would love to see a push for local clubs to organize families to "host" other archers who can't afford hotels! What fun it would be for archers from all over the country to get to know eachother better! A lot of people do this with friends, but many archers don't have those contacts. Just a thought...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I think that's a great idea archerymom, and it could be done right here on AT. Archers really are some of the finest people. And usually low maintenance to boot!


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Years ago this was normal, ie. Hosting families or even allowing people to park in their driveway and “camp out” so to speak. But I don’t think the current generation of archery families the same today. It appears today’s archery family require hotels, car rentals, plane tickets, etc. 

In the ‘60’s many fellow archers or other archery families took me to tournaments while mom and dad continued to work (yes, even on weekends). In the 70’s I tried to find ways to get our JOAD kids to tournaments by getting a couple of parents to take their motor homes and let the kids “camp out”. One time we had 18 of the kids travel from Muncie, Indiana to St. Louis, Illinois for a tournament. Two parents drove the two motor homes, we parked at Townhall Archery in Belleville, IL and had a blast. The girls slept in the motor home and the boys slept out over the awnings of the motor homes. Another tournament a friend of mine and I took six Junior archers to a tournament in Chicago. None of us had much money so we got one hotel room with two queen beds. We took the mattress off the beds and had enough room for all of us in one room. Was it crowded? Yes, but hopefully they enjoyed the trip. I also remember parents getting together and driving several cars in a caravan style trip to Harrisonburg, PA where the Indoor Nationals were. At least 6 cars drove and I cannot remember how many kids, but we shared expenses and found ways to make it work. And finally, years ago when California and Arizona wanted to develop the event called “Duel in the Desert” each host state found “hosts” for the team that was coming over to compete. Thus expenses were cut down considerably. Most of the archers traveled together to save fuel costs as well. These are just some examples of what we did to keep our expenses down.

Even when I was sponsored by archery manufacturers I tried to share my rental car with those in need, shared hotel rooms and bought dinner a few times (thanks to my sponsors). I would guess that some of the top archers do this today. It’s just one way to help a fellow archer. 

I do know that when the USAA Outdoor Nationals were held at Oxford, the archers were more “together” than now. Three university dorms were full of archers and their families. Many who drove their campers or motor homes parked at the dorm parking lots to spend the time with other archers for the week. It was truly one of the more social times for USAA archers. The cost to be at Oxford was minimal to say the least. 

As I said, there are many ways to save money, but I don’t know if the comfort level is there for many families to do this anymore. Most like their independence and are uncomfortable to be in a stranger’s home. I never felt an archer was a stranger but that’s just me and probably my generation.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

This is the best thread AT has ever had. Just a darn good read, excellent insight, as well as, a good dose of wisdom from Rick and John. Thanks guys.

Thanks for setting me straight archerymom.

Good stuff
Art


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## Ms. X Hunter (Nov 14, 2014)

Just found this gem of a thread when I sorted the forum by "most views." Surprised that it was all the way on Page 5!

It seems that having the 3-5 USAT ranking events makes getting in the Olympic team seem very expensive (both in money and travel). Not so! I'm glad that USAT ranking isn't required for the Oly trials. 

Thanks Rick, John, Stephanie, and all the other competitors who contributed. I've learned a lot from lurking here.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ms. X Hunter said:


> Just found this gem of a thread when I sorted the forum by "most views." Surprised that it was all the way on Page 5!
> 
> It seems that having the 3-5 USAT ranking events makes getting in the Olympic team seem very expensive (both in money and travel). Not so! I'm glad that USAT ranking isn't required for the Oly trials.


It is even more expensive if you calculate in the expenses, including training and travel in their efforts to become international class athletes, of all the people who don't make the cut. Then summed cost for 8 people to make the team and alternate is staggering.

In a state run system like the Korean system, I'm assuming that such combined expenses of the entire effort to create Olympic archers are born by the state. In the US, they are born by individuals, with the exception of some grant money for those who make it to the OTC.


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