# Samick Masters...???



## BobCo19-65 (Sep 4, 2009)

Seems like Samick Masters (Max) were a very popular limb at one point. Have other limbs surpassed their performance, or have they just not been marketed very well here in the US? Just don't seem to hear about them as much anymore.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

They are still some of the best limbs ever produced. As I understand it, Samick has experienced some transition in staff and production has been affected. However, I have yet to be disappointed with any Samick limb I've ever handled. My daughter has two pairs of Universal Carbons and I cannot believe how nearly identical they are in every way for a limb of that price. Excellent quality control. The only reason I sold my Masters limbs is that they were too light. Otherwise I never would have let them go.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Samick Masters were one of the best limbs ever produced. They hold the FITA world record of 1405 by Park Sung Hyun. 

The makers of the Samick Masters ( wood) and Samick extremes (foam) left Samick a few years ago and started MK Korea Archery. The MK Vera limb is the next generation of the Samick Masters limb. 

Once the limb makers left Samick, the Samick limbs quality degraded and now they are not that great. 


Here is Park Sung Hyun shooting the first generation MK Vera limbs in Korea after the MK Korea transition. 
View attachment 2066436


Everyone looking for the Masters etc, now gets the MK Korea line of limbs.


Chris


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## Double_E (Jul 30, 2011)

do somebody here have shoot the original Samick Masters and the W&W ex primes to make a comparison?

I'm asking because I'm currently saving money for the primes but some Masters are at hand in almost new shape and cheaper, I dont know if I keep saving or do I go to the old school masters (btw, I love the wooden limb drawing/shooting feeling)


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

I would take the old school masters over the ex primes. Most of the existing recurve world records in Women is on either the Samick masters, or the Samick Extremes. ( Park Sung Hyun (Masters) and Yun OK Hee (extremes).

I am not sure how many people still shoot the original masters limbs. While there are a lot out there, they are probably in peoples closets and collections. Thats like asking how may people still shoot the old Yamaha risers and limbs, or the Hoyt Sky limbs. There are a few, as they were top quality like nothing else, but most shoot newer product now. 


Chris


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## Double_E (Jul 30, 2011)

Thanks Chris for the Answer!


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Samick Masters limbs have been born in 2001 and first prototyoes were marked "Agulla Ultra" . My son got 2 pairs to test, but one of them was >46# so could never be used. The other 44# pair allowed him to shoot the European 70 mt record at 684 in Croatia in 2002. But Samick was a complicated company with only one person speaking english, and communication was rather diffccult, so Michele was forced to abandon those limbs. But in 2004 Marco Galiazzo used the Master branded limbs first genenration to win the Gold in Athens and for many years he has kept that pair for his reference bow. 
Around 2008, we went in touch with Samick again, when they were already making the Extreme BF limbs (very good limbs but fragile) , and asked to get another pair of updated Master limbs. I found they had completely forgottten of those 2002 prototypes, and the pair of Master limbs we got to try was not even close to the original ones. And, in 2010, during a comparative test of limbs we made, Michele picked up that 2002 pair and shot again some excellent scores with them. 
Conclusion: the original Master limbs design and construction has never been matched again by Samick, but Samick went close to it with the Extreme BF, just before MK company was established.
MK Vera first generation limbs in our testing were not at same level as original Agulla Ultra (=Master) limbs, but more close to last generation of Master. But surely MK improved the limbs again, even if Michele never tried other MK limbs after the Vera, as it is well known that Fivics FX1 limbs he is using since end 2012 are made by MK, and these are on par with the original Master prototypes, in our opinion.


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

I ordered my Samick Masters limbs pre-production, or at least pre-distribution (and ended up having to wait nearly a year for delivery). Price was £200 (~$320) Only pair of limbs I've used for the last 14 years and until very recently haven't seen any other limbs that I would consider as a possible alternative.


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## Double_E (Jul 30, 2011)

Amazing first hand experience Vittorio, Limwalker and Joe T!

BUT what I understand from Vittorio is that there are different quality Master limbs out there and even if you get a pair of Samick labelled with the 80s style Masters (no master max) logo, you probably won't get THE legendary limbs many people LOVE and talk about :embara:


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

I had a pair of agulla ultras. Sweet limbs at 32" draw.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I had a pair of Agulla Ultras with Masters paint scheme and borrowed a pair of early Masters at the time to test them side by side. They were identical. I had briefly a pair of later "unleash the potential" branded Masters I borrowed to go up in poundage and they didnt really compare, they were a lot quieter and didnt have the harsh, raw feeling that the early ones had. With the early ones the release was more a -bang- rather than -thunk-, I used to annoy people shooting next to me a great deal. They were also very fast.

I did pull back Masters max branded ones, they reminded me more of Winacts and Pro Elites than Masters'.


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## Double_E (Jul 30, 2011)

Another Samick Masters Story???
it's becoming The Samick Masters Thread!!


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## BobCo19-65 (Sep 4, 2009)

A lot of good info. Thanks.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Samick Masters have been my favorite limbs to date!

Ray :shade:


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Original Samick Master first generation are in the Walhalla were the legendary limbs will live forever.
They are there with the Yamaha Ceramic, the Nishizawa 2880 Carbon, the first generation Hoyt Carbon Plus, the Border Carbon first generation, the W&W Sinergy and XQ1 first generations, the Kaya V-perf first generation 
Why "first generations" are better than subsequent ones, may need another topic ...


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Double_E said:


> Another Samick Masters Story???
> it's becoming The Samick Masters Thread!!


...


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## Oldmantime21! (Jul 28, 2021)

chrstphr said:


> I would take the old school masters over the ex primes. Most of the existing recurve world records in Women is on either the Samick masters, or the Samick Extremes. ( Park Sung Hyun (Masters) and Yun OK Hee (extremes).
> 
> I am not sure how many people still shoot the original masters limbs. While there are a lot out there, they are probably in peoples closets and collections. Thats like asking how may people still shoot the old Yamaha risers and limbs, or the Hoyt Sky limbs. There are a few, as they were top quality like nothing else, but most shoot newer product now.
> 
> ...


Believe it or not, I still have a Yamaha ex and shoot it every so often.


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## chang (Sep 16, 2008)

Vittorio said:


> ..... the W&W Sinergy and XQ1 first generations,..... ...


Sorry, No luck with the first generation W&W Syzergy limbs. the so called Arc system has no horizontal reinforcement made it prone to de-lamination. even after they introduced the Titanium mesh did not solve the problem.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

chang said:


> Sorry, No luck with the first generation W&W Syzergy limbs. the so called Arc system has no horizontal reinforcement made it prone to de-lamination. even after they introduced the Titanium mesh did not solve the problem.


Titanium + wood laminated core was in the first generation of Sinezy limbs, second generation had carbon instead of titanium. My son won the World Target Championship in NY City in 2003 with first-generation Sinerzy.
Delamination affected second generation, and a lot of XQ1 first generation limbs (honeycomb curved core), because of problems of adhesion of external layers to the curved inner core.. But they were limbs in many aspects much superior to anything made later.
After XQ1, W&W abandoned the curved core solution, apart for a couple of pairs of very special limbs they made for my son before London 2012, that never went to production.

.
.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I wonder if W&W created the idea of curved cross section limbs at the same time, out of pure coincidence, or as a result of my friend O.L. Adcock's patented ACS cross section longbow limbs from a few years earlier. We'll never know of course, but it is interesting that the timing was so soon after O.L.'s patent.


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## chang (Sep 16, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> I wonder if W&W created the idea of curved cross section limbs at the same time, out of pure coincidence, or as a result of my friend O.L. Adcock's patented ACS cross section longbow limbs from a few years earlier. We'll never know of course, but it is interesting that the timing was so soon after O.L.'s patent.


The concept was also similar to Yamaha's earlier Power-Arc.


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## chang (Sep 16, 2008)

Vittorio said:


> Titanium + wood laminated core was in the first generation of Sinezy limbs, second generation had carbon instead of titanium. My son won the World Target Championship in NY City in 2003 with first-generation Sinerzy.
> Delamination affected second generation, and a lot of XQ1 first generation limbs (honeycomb curved core), because of problems of adhesion of external layers to the curved inner core.. But they were limbs in many aspects much superior to anything made later.
> After XQ1, W&W abandoned the curved core solution, apart for a couple of pairs of very special limbs they made for my son before London 2012, that never went to production.
> .


For Syzergy, It was less to do with the material used, but the direction of the reinforcement material (Titanium or Carbon) laid. The cone structure introduced complex horizontal stress was not deal with properly in the design. 

For XQ1, Honeycomb foam is lightest among most other foams, but it was well documented for far less contact surface area for glue bonding. resulting weakest bonding. usually fix for this issue would usually introducing fillings that increases the surface area as well as weight. you can find specific warning of using this type of laminated structure for flexible applications in composite engineering textbooks.

Among all W&W products, I still prefer the original Winact riser and limbs, I don't understand how W&W coulld tried the make Carbon-Aluminum product like the Infinite and Experts without even aware and deal with the Galvanization reaction between the 2 materials.


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