# Traditional Archery without an Armguard ???



## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

I am aware that most traditional archers use an armguard. 

Sound off if you are more experienced than a newbie traditional archer and still often DO NOT use an armguard for a recurve or longbow.

I did not use an armguard for 25 years while primarily shooting compound bows. I also did not use an armguard during the less frequent occasions while shooting my recurves or longbows. I felt that not wearing an armguard was a good way to ensure good form. Punishment was swift for any lapse in good form.

I have recently started using an armguard for two reasons. The first reason is that an occasional lapse of form will cause the string to slap my forearm. While the pain is momentary, my arm will appear badly bruised (looks ugly) for a week or longer. The second is my current armguard looks cool, so I enjoy the fashion statement.

This has caused me to wonder about traditional archers who might choose NOT TO WEAR AN ARMGUARD. Perhaps there aren’t any???


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

For me it depends on the brace height of the bow I am shooting and the weight of the arrows I am shooting.
Brace height at 7" with 400+ grain weight No Need for arm guard. Same bow same brace with 350 grain. Need arm guard.
8 " No need.
FITA rigs at 9". No need.

Nice looking arm guard is more appealing than black and blue lumps both to the eye and body.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

If you could see the scar on my arm you would wear an armguard every time you got near a bow.....


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## Flying Dog (Aug 12, 2004)

I do not use one as I have never had a problem hitting my arm. I would recommend one to anyone starting out as most will occasionally hit their forearm.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

fall - 

With a trad, side of face, anchor and reasonable form, it's quite possible to not need an arm guard. Unless/until something nasty happens. 
However, as form improves, and more so with an Olympic style under the chin anchor, and resultant more linear alignment, in most cases, the string will buzz the arm/arm guard. In that case, it's necessary. 

The exception to that would be a Hill style LB with very low brace heights (6 - 7 inches), but here we might be talking low forearm/wrist slaps and not hits higher on the forearm.

Yes, build and technique factor in and I do know a few Olympic shooters who don't use one. 

With a trad anchor, I rarely use one. With an Olympic bow, arm guard, chest protector, etc. 

Viper1 out.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Depends on the bow. With compound bow, conventional Predators, and Covert Hunter, don't need one, though recently I've been wearing one just because. With my Predator Velocity, absolutely. Doesn't slap most of the time, and when it does, it's just a grazing, but it's distracting.

Warnings about arrow failures, though, kind of make me think safer might be... safer.


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## Bowsage (Apr 29, 2008)

Take a good enough lick on the forearm and you'll probably always use one!


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## joe vt (Oct 18, 2006)

I only wear a armguard if the clothing I'm wearing calls for it. Coats/Jackets: yes. This past Saturday I was out roving with a hoodie on and I didn't need one. I shoot recurves and longbows. My longbows have braces around 6 3/4" and still I only use a armguard if I'm wearing a jacket. Maybe it's my poor form lol


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Have never hit my arm using a tradbow, only time I needed one was when my draw length was too long on my compound.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

I always wear one because _sometimes_ I need it, that way I _never_ forget it. 

The better I'm shooting the more likely I feel the string coming very close to my wrist. It doesn't actually smack me but I know it's there and find it distracting. Aside from that, I'm usually wearing clothing with long sleeves, except for the two weeks of summer we get. I find it very annoying to feel a crisp shot go and right as the follow through should be developing feel the string snag my sleeve.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Interesting! It is not compound bow vs traditional bow. Some trad archers don’t need an armguard.

I prefer extra-long arrows (several inches beyond my draw length) and heavy arrows “just because”. I also actually prefer fat arrows like 2413 for heavy draw weight bows, but I have become so weak and dainty in my 60s that I mostly shoot very skinny 1816s with my 40# longbow. Regardless of the manufacture’s recommendations all my brace heights are between 8 and 9 inches based on quietness and the most pleasant release.

So I likely don’t NEED an armguard.

I am not sure about the arrow failure safety issue. I have a solid leather armguard, but I am not convinced that a razor sharp carbon shard would not penetrate. However, it is not really an issue since I shoot aluminum.

I will continue to use my nifty armguard. If I inadvertently arrived at the range without an armguard, I would not hesitate to shoot.


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## TeamRetic (Dec 22, 2014)

I do not wear it when I shoot my recurve. I do not slap with the recurve. I also trying to my forearm to be the same color as my other one hehe. I wear the arm guard with my other bows.


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## Ken Thorhill (Feb 4, 2016)

I always wear one. That being said; I would rather wear one and not need it than to not wear one and need it.


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## maddog20/20 (Oct 13, 2015)

You absolutely don't need an armguard...until you do. The problem is that you don't know beforehand which is going to be the slightly off form that drags that string across your forearm at 185fps.

I shoot probably 100-200 arrows a day, 4 days a week and I MAY hit my arm a half dozen times. SO, that's 6 out of an average 600 arrows per week which is an insanely small percentage of shots...but 6 more times than I'd want a string to hit my bare arm.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I haven't worn one for a few years. When I raised my anchor and rotated my elbow a bit any contact went away. Occasionally I'll be "buzzed" but that's usually from pushing my bow shoulder forward, which I shouldn't be doing anyway.


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## Ringlight (May 5, 2015)

When your form is perfect, 100% of the time, you do not need an arm guard.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

maddog20/20 said:


> You absolutely don't need an armguard...until you do. The problem is that you don't know beforehand which is going to be the slightly off form that drags that string across your forearm at 185fps.
> 
> I shoot probably 100-200 arrows a day, 4 days a week and I MAY hit my arm a half dozen times. SO, that's 6 out of an average 600 arrows per week which is an insanely small percentage of shots...but 6 more times than I'd want a string to hit my bare arm.


This is “sort of” similar to my current thinking.

I typically shoot 10 to 30 arrows daily on seven days a week (rather than 100 to 200 arrows a session).

I rarely hit my forearm. I am shooting low poundage bows. I mostly shoot 30# and 40#, so the momentary pain is relatively trivial. I rarely, but occasionally, take a couple of shots with my 45# or 55# bows.

It might be my imagination, but when I do get slapped these days, it seems that my arm is much uglier and remains ugly much longer than in the past. Perhaps I am just more aware. I do not have as much other things to dwell on.

It seems worth wearing the neat looking leather armguard for those occasional mishaps. As pointed out, I cannot predict when they might occur.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

Sometimes I need an arm guard, sometimes I don't. There is no way to tell when the need will be there. I always wear an arm guard. I already own one, it is easy to put on, it doesn't weigh much, so I just always put it on. 

I am not very macho so I don't have any issues with always appearing like a wimp.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

kegan said:


> I haven't worn one for a few years. When I raised my anchor and rotated my elbow a bit any contact went away. Occasionally I'll be "buzzed" but that's usually from pushing my bow shoulder forward, which I shouldn't be doing anyway.


I shoot with my bow arm shoulder down and my bow arm elbow rotated outwards plus slightly elevated above horizontal (just elevated as much as feels natural).

When I observe my bow arm artificially held at various elbow orientations, I believe my normal elbow orientation greatly contributes to increased string clearance.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Ringlight said:


> When your form is perfect, 100% of the time, you do not need an arm guard.


That is my mistake – LOL.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Nekekal said:


> Sometimes I need an arm guard, sometimes I don't. There is no way to tell when the need will be there. I always wear an arm guard. I already own one, it is easy to put on, it doesn't weigh much, so I just always put it on.
> 
> I am not very macho so I don't have any issues with always appearing like a wimp.


I have never considered shooting without an armguard to be macho. I do not worry much about macho either (I am never going to seem macho anyway).

I am extremely lazy. I prefer utilizing the very minimum of accessories and shooting rituals possible while still retaining a shooting experience that pleases me.

Along with my longbow, tab, quiver, arrows, and hat; I now must also remember to bring my armguard – LOL.


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## alekh (Oct 28, 2014)

I didn't wear one with compound or centershot recurve. Do with selfbows with 'suitcase' grip. One thing I'm doing instead of arm guard is wearing a 'tennis sweat band' on wrist where string contacts. MUCH quieter than traditional arm guard materials. Not a biggie for target practice... but definitely a biggie hunting.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

With my most accurate grip and elbow position a guard is essential. 

Grant


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## UtahIdahoHunter (Mar 27, 2008)

grantmac said:


> With my most accurate grip and elbow position a guard is essential.
> 
> Grant


Same here. I have to wear one.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I never used to hit my arm and did without an guard for many years, one day my arrow failed and got hit by both string and arrow, a blood blister the size of a gold ball. I've used one every since.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

fall -



> So I likely don’t NEED an armguard.


That's not what anyone is saying. YOU have to figure out whether YOU need one or not. 

Viper1 out.


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## bens5218 (Feb 25, 2013)

The only time I need one is when wearing hunting clothes. My bow arm rotation keeps it from happening when I have short or long sleeves on. Winter hunting clothes stick out far enough that it is necessary to insure proper clearance.


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## DonJuan14 (Feb 15, 2016)

Wear it. you wont regret it


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Not sure if this was brought up since I have not read all posts,

You don't want to adjust your form so that you do not hit your arm. You want to develop a form that, coincidentally, does not cause you to hit your arm. The objective of archery is to put the arrow on target and not to miss your arm. So don't let missing your arm be the driver behind how you execute. I have seen compound shooters, many of them, shoot with a bent arm; so bent that there is no way to hit your arm. This is not good form. Take the same approach with a recurve and you are not going to hit your arm either, but, using this approach for a recurve is even worse than a compound. How do you establish a consistent draw length with a bent arm? I have straight shoulder alignment and have very little clearance when I shoot. When I tweak a release, I get whacked. This often happens when I am working on form. I do something that does not come out quite as I had planned.


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## weirdjack (Jan 15, 2014)

I not only wear an arm-guard, I wear a double thickness arm-guard. Bottom layer of tooling leather, with a top layer of split.
Nothing wimpy about it. I have very few blood platelets, a mild string slap will leave me with a big blackened contusion for a month. No thank you.


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## walker614 (Dec 21, 2013)

Ken Thorhill said:


> I always wear one. That being said; I would rather wear one and not need it than to not wear one and need it.


It's the same as my carry firearm! Rather it be there when I need it than not be there and suffer the consequences! 

Genesis 27:3 
Now then, get your equipment---your quiver and bow---and go out to the open country to hunt some wild game for me.


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## marcelxl (Dec 5, 2010)

Ringlight said:


> When your form is perfect, 100% of the time, you do not need an arm guard.



Ok then…………


Thats why just about every Olympian, and many of the greats including Hill wear one then eh?

100% perfect from 100% of the time……..if one shot is not and it means agonising pain, grazes&/blisers and then paranoia about doing it again………not for me, I wear one 100% of the time. I'm not into pain.

Arm slap is one of those things you only need to do once, since it's avoidable then it's not very clever to do it more.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I'm not too sure I like this thread............:jksign:


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## HonkAddict (Oct 18, 2011)

I always wear one with my longbow. Don't see a reason not to wear one. With a training wheel bow I'd wear one if I had a jacket. 
I've got a full length guard for hunting with a jacket. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

Not with compound or Longbow. Brace over 7 1/2" so have never needed.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

fallhunt said:


> I shoot with my bow arm shoulder down and my bow arm elbow rotated outwards plus slightly elevated above horizontal (just elevated as much as feels natural).
> 
> When I observe my bow arm artificially held at various elbow orientations, I believe my normal elbow orientation greatly contributes to increased string clearance.


I used to grip the bow, which was counter-productive to good elbow orientation. As my form improved I fixed that. Always trying to get better!


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## k222 (Jan 16, 2015)

Arm guard? I could use a nose and lip guard.

But seriously: I use an arm guard if I am not already wearing long sleeves. I don't want to develop a twitch.

And my nose and lip slaps are probably caused by not keeping my neck in place.


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## virginmesa (Nov 9, 2013)

The longbow can be quite nippy so definitely wear a long guard for that bow. I never needed one with my recurves, but now that I shoot the Longbow it feels funny to not have something on my arm so I wear it all the time. Vista makes a fantastic armguard, also Steven Catts makes some really nice custom leather work too.











Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## maddog20/20 (Oct 13, 2015)

k222 said:


> Arm guard? I could use a nose and lip guard.
> 
> But seriously: I use an arm guard if I am not already wearing long sleeves. I don't want to develop a twitch.
> 
> And my nose and lip slaps are probably caused by not keeping my neck in place.


lol...when you come up with that nose guard, let me know.


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## bbrummon (May 16, 2008)

With my lower poundage bows (35# and lower) I never hit my arm.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Can score 260+ Oly style. Wear an armguard every time and for long periods I won't need it. It's the ones you don't expect. Having absolutely drilled my arm a couple times to the point of leaving a swollen mouse -- even when scoring decently -- it's like, why risk it.

To facilitate, I keep my armguard, which I have been picky in choosing, and two sets of tabs (one with shelf one without, since I do both Oly and trad) and finger slings (in case I lose one) in a zip pocket of my quiver. It takes a couple minutes to dump arrows in the quiver, unzip, pull out the accessories, and I'm going. That gets done in way less than 1 line with compound archers shooting, get off a few arrows that end and away I go. If you choose the right armguard it becomes almost unnoticeable.

I used to go sans shin guards playing pickup soccer (in the HS and college offseason) and had no issues right until the time a guy broke my leg kicking me from behind. It wouldn't have been the hard plastic side -- and I have had that kicked so hard twice it cracked without hurting me beyond a bruise -- but there would have been some padding back there.


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## bravefeather (Dec 28, 2015)

I bought a custom long bow one time it had a low brace height 60# bow that bow hit your arm every time but it was a custom fancy pants bow lol.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

There are folks that don't hit their arm because they are consistently good,
There are folks that don't hit their arm because of anatomy,
There are folks that don't hit their arm because of form issues, like not reaching full alignment or bending their arm. This is not good, but is common in traditional archer. Also common among untrained compound shooters.

When you are fully aligned, you are going to have tight clearance. The really good folks will never make a mistake and hit their arms. Most folks are not that consistent and rely on an arm guard for protection.
Often folks that hit their arm adjust their form so that it does not occur. This could be a bad thing if you affect your alignment or bend your arm. In this case, which is quite common, you are missing your arm by eroding your form.

Most shooting methods do not result in arm strikes if performed correctly, but tweak a release, over expand, or do any number of things and you get out of plane motion of the string and a string strike. Your choice is to either improve your form and consistency, or compromise your form to keep from getting hit. I would rather wear the arm guard and work on solving the root of the problem.


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## catman-do (Aug 17, 2014)

I don't need one, never had a problem.


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## maddog20/20 (Oct 13, 2015)

I'm thinking about going Robin Hood up in here with this baby:


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

There are at least three discussions going on now about not using arm guards in trad shooting. I am not sure why this issue has suddenly become a popular discussion item. Is going without an ego thing? Is this like not wearing seat belts, or not wearing a helmet? If someone asks whether you need an arm guard the general answer is yes, or you accept the risk of injury. There is no law that requires it but why skip using basic safety equipment. Like Steve Morley, I have tweaked an arrow and had to hit the Coke machine for something to ice it with. My shoulder alignment is straight and I have little clearance. It does not take a big tweak for me to get hit. Sometimes it happens when I focus on getting a little better back tension or expansion. That is why it occurs more when I am practicing form. I think for those that do not use an arm guard, we should have pictures posted at full draw so we can check alignment and bow arm position. There is either something we can learn on the positive side, or something we want to avoid doing. The alignment and bent bow arm issues I point out are things I have seen at the range.


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## TxCal C (Jan 24, 2009)

Started shooting in the '60's, went through a compound phase from about '87 to '93, then back to recurves. The only time I ever used an armguard was with a Hoyt Dorado. Something about the grip just brought my arm in line with the string. So I have several really nice armguards, but got rid of the Dorado, so now the armguards just sit in a drawer. My wife has never needed one, but several of my nephews use them.


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## Trimf (May 15, 2015)

I've never needed one.
The ten step NZFAA coaching program has one step to pre set the bow arm prior to the draw.
Use this step correctly and a person should seldom need an arm guard, don't use it and most people will zing themselves a time or two before they really start to listen rather than just pretend to listen.
At first I just stand back and watch until they begin to complain,,,then I say it again.

John.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Trimf said:


> I've never needed one.
> The ten step NZFAA coaching program has one step to pre set the bow arm prior to the draw.
> Use this step correctly and a person should seldom need an arm guard, don't use it and most people will zing themselves a time or two before they really start to listen rather than just pretend to listen.
> At first I just stand back and watch until they begin to complain,,,then I say it again.
> ...


Does this mean you recommend that folks do not use, or need, arm guards if they follow the NZFAA coaching program? What does the NZFAA coaching program say about the use of arm guards?


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## ex-diver (Dec 20, 2002)

I don't wear one either...except when I wear my ghillie suit. Sorry Rembrandt however, I would use a pocket quiver!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up
Have a good one


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> There are at least three discussions going on now about not using arm guards in trad shooting. I am not sure why this issue has suddenly become a popular discussion item. Is going without an ego thing? Is this like not wearing seat belts, or not wearing a helmet? If someone asks whether you need an arm guard ...............


I have become a minimalist in regard to possessions. I have not always been a minimalist. Currently I am using an armguard. I plan to continue to use an armguard. So an armguard is one more thing to possess and remember to always drag along with me.

I never needed or used an armguard with my compound bows other than to contain bulky clothing during cold weather hunting. For the most part traditional archery has resulted in the reduction of complexity and extra accessories. I wondered how many traditional archers were routinely not using an armguard or whether an armguard was almost universally used by all traditional archers.

I was not asking whether one SHOULD wear an armguard. I was not asking whether an armguard is RECOMMENDED.

I already knew that many traditional archers wore armguards. I already knew that the safety police would freak. Their relentless voices are loud and clearly known.

It was not at all a macho thing. I just asked how many traditional archers routinely shoot without an armguard for whatever their reasons. I just wondered how many were out there.

I figured they were out there. I do not think they need to remain hidden. I do not think they need to keep their mouths shut and not dare deviate from the herd mentality.

The shape of my straight bow arm provides an unusual amount of string clearance compared to the straight bow arm of most of the many archers I have observed. It is clear that my arm shape is not the most common. Yet I still get wacked occasionally.


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## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

bens5218 said:


> The only time I need one is when wearing hunting clothes. My bow arm rotation keeps it from happening when I have short or long sleeves on. Winter hunting clothes stick out far enough that it is necessary to insure proper clearance.


Me to


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Fallhunt,

Sorry, it was not my intent to take a pot shot at you. I hope my comments were not taken that way. I have no concern with your original post, it was the number of threads on this issue and the responses that concerned me. I do not want new archers getting the impression that you do not need arm guards. I was seeing too many responses over the three posts I was reading that could lead someone new to believe they are not necessary. If an archer shoots for years and never hits themselves then an arm guard is probably unnecessary. We just need to be cognizant of the folks reading these threads and the message we are sending. I think the "Safety Police" thing is really an issue of reading the threads from a different perspective. At least it is for me. I am thinking about what the inexperienced archer would get out of this. The bulk of what I read in these three threads (and it is really the number of threads that concerned me) led me to believe that a new comer could easily come to the conclusion that this is a trivial choice and not something that is decided based on experience with the bow and subsequent need. I was also concerned that the message not be sent to new comers that arm guards are only for folks that do not do it right. This does not preclude folks commenting that they do not use arm guards, but there needs to be some balance in the response (here is where the Safety Police come in).


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## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> Not sure if this was brought up since I have not read all posts,
> 
> You don't want to adjust your form so that you do not hit your arm. You want to develop a form that, coincidentally, does not cause you to hit your arm. The objective of archery is to put the arrow on target and not to miss your arm. So don't let missing your arm be the driver behind how you execute. I have seen compound shooters, many of them, shoot with a bent arm; so bent that there is no way to hit your arm. This is not good form. Take the same approach with a recurve and you are not going to hit your arm either, but, using this approach for a recurve is even worse than a compound. How do you establish a consistent draw length with a bent arm? I have straight shoulder alignment and have very little clearance when I shoot. When I tweak a release, I get whacked. This often happens when I am working on form. I do something that does not come out quite as I had planned.


You are I believe quite right in your observation, however modern compound shooters are using a grip that removes the need for a bracer. The grip taught by the likes of Larry Wise rotates the hand so the knuckles are at as much as 45 degrees with a straight arm. This rotation will move the elbow away from the string by about 2 inches. Try it by gripping a pencil. Hold the bow arm normally then put the pencil straight up and down. Observe elbow then rotate pencil and watch elbow. The modern flat and straight bow grip is ideal for this.
Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbW8b6n_OzE for an example.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Good video. I use a more extreme version of that grip where there are no fingers on the back of the bow. Depending on the bow, I may have one finger. 45 degrees or less is essential to reach this position. I grip with my hand in a relaxed position, like it would be if you held your arm down by your side. This is a typical FITA style grip. The shooter in the video looked pretty solid. He actually made the non preferred grips look good, though he should have put a finger sling on for the open hand. What I was referring to when I mentioned compound shooters are the ones that shoot with obvious bent arms, like they have their bows setup for too short of a draw length. I see that a lot with the self taught pin sight shooters at ranges I go to.


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## Norm Koger (Sep 23, 2014)

I don't care at all about string slap. This scar is the reason I never shoot without full length leather guard as well as kevlar or leather bow hand glove. Arrow shattered on launch, just in front of the fletching - and tried to burrow into my bow arm. Quite unpleasant. It was fortunate that I was wearing a cheap plastic web style guard that caught the front edge of the arrow - thus the horseshoe shape of the scar. Only went in about 1/8 inch at the back end and chewed the heck out of the back edge of the guard. Ugly at the time. I was concerned for days that I was going to lose a plug of meat from the arm. So now: leather as far back as possible toward the elbow and as far forward as possible toward the wrist gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.


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## maddog20/20 (Oct 13, 2015)

Here's the thing. There is no "wrong" answer. If string slap or other issues don't concern you, don't wear one. Easy peasy.

As for me, I don't enjoy the occasional string slap and just last NIGHT I had a kid that got a piece of fletching buried in his finger so I wear an arm guard and I'm considering a full-length guard with an integrated "bow glove" (well, the leather extends over the top of my hand, anyway). I'm not considering it because it's the objectively "right" answer, but because from my purely subjective experience, getting hit with my string sucks. It rarely happens, but my preference is zero so I wear one.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Norm Koger said:


> ............ Arrow shattered on launch, just in front of the fletching - and tried to burrow into my bow arm................... So now: leather as far back as possible toward the elbow and as far forward as possible toward the wrist gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
> View attachment 4024642


OUCH!!!

Did you also switch to aluminum arrows?


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## Norm Koger (Sep 23, 2014)

fallhunt said:


> Did you also switch to aluminum arrows?


Unfortunately, there are examples of horrifying failures for wood and aluminum as well as carbon. It seems there is no such thing as a completely safe arrow, so no - still using carbons. Once I figured that out, I went to religiously flexing after every shot. My shooting is also quite a bit better now, so I don't bang the arrows up as much as I used to back in the day - bouncing them off whatever was on the ground behind the target.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Norm Koger said:


> Unfortunately, there are examples of horrifying failures for wood and aluminum as well as carbon. It seems there is no such thing as a completely safe arrow, so no - still using carbons. Once I figured that out, I went to religiously flexing after every shot.............


Very interesting!

I was aware that arrows shattering with resulting sharp shards were occasionally a problem with wood arrows. I remember that this was quite a well-recognized concern during the relatively brief period that fiberglass arrows were very popular for standard archery rather than bow fishing (no slight intended towards bow fishing). I remember the frequent warnings for the serious need to always diligently flex, twist, and visually examine fiberglass arrows for hairline fractures to prevent possible nasty injuries.

I had previously believed that this production of shattered shards or any other dangerous form of broken arrow upon release almost NEVER occurred with aluminum arrows. You have devastated one of my long held “truths”. 

Can you point me towards some sources to confirm that this danger also exists for aluminum arrows?

Under your circumstances of firsthand experience, I would have guessed that switching to aluminum arrows would have had safety primacy over beefing up your armguard. Although I suspect that I would have done both.


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## Norm Koger (Sep 23, 2014)

I did look around, with the expected search terms. Quite a bit of incentive to do so, with a hole in my arm. At the time, at least, there were many examples of wood and aluminum arrow failures. Not as many as with carbons, but reasonably common as well. Some of the aluminum failures were particularly appalling. Surely those links have not disappeared? It would be nice to believe that things might have changed over the last couple of years. 

The main difference was in the _appearance_ of the failure. Carbons sure do look scarier when they shatter - all those nasty looking pointy bits. No doubt about that. 

I will look again. Until I find something suggesting any particular type of arrow is safer, unlike last time, I will continue to flex the hell out of arrows after every shot, and - to the point of the topic - wear serious protection on the arm and hand when shooting.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Norm - 

I've never seen that type of failure with aluminum arrows, but anything is possible. I have seen a few, like two, X7s in 40 something years develop cracks, and they still didn't fail. So, while I can't rule it out 100%, I'd be a little hard pressed to worry about it. 

Guys -

3 pages on arm guards, really? 

Viper1 out.


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## maddog20/20 (Oct 13, 2015)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> 3 pages on arm guards, really?
> 
> Viper1 out.


lol...I'm just surprised that the thread has gone on this long without anyone referencing Hitler.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

maddog20/20 said:


> lol...I'm just surprised that the thread has gone on this long without anyone referencing Hitler.


You wear an armguard? HITLER WORE AN ARMBAND!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I never wear an arm guard 

I might when hunting in winter to pull my jacket sleeve tight but that's not really a need anymore with the bowhunting oriented clothes these day that have form fitting sleeves


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Norm Koger said:


> I did look around, with the expected search terms. Quite a bit of incentive to do so, with a hole in my arm. At the time, at least, there were many examples of wood and aluminum arrow failures. Not as many as with carbons, but reasonably common as well. Some of the aluminum failures were particularly appalling. Surely those links have not disappeared? ..............


In response to your comment I too did an Internet search with the expected search terms. I too found a number of photos claiming to depict catastrophic aluminum arrow failures plus injuries. The problem was that all of the actual failed arrows in the photos were clearly carbon arrows despite the photo annotations and accompanying photo narration. I have no idea what that is all about? Perhaps the authors didn’t know the difference between an aluminum arrow and a carbon arrow.

I also found a number of narrations that just flat out claimed without any supportive evidence that aluminum arrows also catastrophically failed similar to wood and carbon arrows.

The only aluminum arrow injuries I found that actually involved aluminum arrows were people who somehow managed to shoot themselves with an entire fully intact aluminum arrow.

Carbon arrows have a long list of Pros. It is claimed that carbon arrows apparently have more Pros than aluminum arrows. 

But I still think that one big Pro for aluminum arrows is that one is much less likely to end up with a portion of fragmented arrow driven through their finger, hand, or forearm compared to wood, fiberglass, or carbon arrows.

I am very biased. I prefer aluminum arrows. The theoretical advantages of carbon arrows over aluminum arrows do not seem pertinent to my real life experiences. The advantages of aluminum arrows over carbon arrows are daily significant benefits for me.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

OK, in the interest of full disclosure, I did see one aluminum arrow injury. 
When I was a younger, a guy at the range missed the butt and buried an arrow into the wood frame. He stood behind the arrow and and proceeded to pull it out - right into his thigh. Probably a 1/4" deep. Does that count? 

True story.

Fall - sorry, the only real advantage to carbon is the potential of a lighter shaft. 
I've straightened out enough aluminum arrows for people over the years, to know that most damage is reparable and the odds on getting an aluminum splinter are pretty darn low. 

The whole recovery from paradox thing, while true, doesn't really amount to much in the real world. 

Don't get me wrong, I use carbon and composites for outdoor shooting, and again it's mostly a weight/diameter thing.
My indoor aluminum arrows have tons of scrapes down the shafts and insert dings due to arrow on arrow violence and the types of targets we use. Carbons just won't hold up to that kind of abuse. 

Viper1 out.


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## Trimf (May 15, 2015)

Setting the bow arm by rolling the elbow up simply places the arm in a position where it has more clearance from the bow string.
The NZFAA beginners program does not mention arm guards as such,because it is simply the basic 10 step program and does not go into detail about why we should do one thing or another.
Those types of details come up later in the intermediate classes.
I don't usually recommend using arm guards but I do show how when you set your bow arm as instructed the end result will be that you won't zing your arm.
On the other hand,if the student is a young woman then I do recommend an arm guard because of their tendency to hyper extend the elbow into the path of the string until they learn to control their elbow.
I personally believe that an open stance leads to not needing an arm guard, and a closed stance leads to needing an arm guard as the alignment becomes better.
People shooting FITA and other tightly disciplined forms leading toward perfect alignment need things like arm guards and chest protectors simply because perfect alignment leads to less clearance all round.
Anyway, rambling again.

John.


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## Norm Koger (Sep 23, 2014)

An armguard is such a simple thing. It adds almost nothing to the cost of equipment or time to get out to shoot. Folks can believe or not that things can go wrong. OK, understood. But if you're of the opinion that things can sometimes go pear shaped with no warning, why not wear inexpensive, quick and easy to apply armor? A garden variety full length leather armguard costs about the same as two or three arrows, and takes perhaps 20 seconds to don.

None of this applies to immortals, of course, because nothing icky ever happens to them.


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## Simba (Oct 30, 2014)

For, me it has a lot to do with clothing. A lot of my shirt sleeves are loose fitting and so the string will hit the sleeve if I don't either 1) roll it up, or 2) wear an armguard. That said, the armguard I have tends to bunch up with the back end of it sliding toward my wrist and causing it to bow out anyway and interfere with the string. So, I just go without and wear short sleeves or roll up my sleeve if weather permits. Another option is wearing a base layer top if its cool out so that you're warm if rolling up sleeves or wearing short sleeves.


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## Longbowfanatic (Mar 5, 2016)

I always wear one, mostly because it's a cool armguard. It's made by Scott Teaschner, who used to make saddles. Now he makes awesome armguards and some of the nicest knife sheaths.


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## Comanche51 (Jan 25, 2015)

I don't wear an armguard unless I have loose long sleeves on. I hold my bows similar to how G Fred Asbell describes (high wrist and don't collapse my wrist) and don't have a problem.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Longbowfanatic said:


> I always wear one, mostly because it's a cool armguard. It's made by Scott Teaschner, who used to make saddles. Now he makes awesome armguards and some of the nicest knife sheaths.


I wish he was still making them, he seems to have quit the business. 

I have one of his arm guards too and it is by far the nicest I've seen. I always wanted one of his guards with the built in knife but didn't buy one before he stopped. I've dedicated mine to hunting only and use lesser arm guards for day in day out shooting, hopefully it will last me out.


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## secretagentmann (Jul 6, 2012)

I've never used one. Neither have my kids, 6 and 9.
I teach my kids, "don't do crazy elbow"
Where the tip of your elbow points down.
I teach them to keep the tip of the elbow out to the side.
No string slap, if you don't do crazy elbow.


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## Malcolm (Jan 5, 2015)

I don't generally catch my arm, but I always seem to hit armguards if I wear one.

So I don't - I guess there's not enough room for it.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

secretagentmann said:


> I teach my kids, "don't do crazy elbow"
> Where the tip of your elbow points down.
> I teach them to keep the tip of the elbow out to the side.
> No string slap, if you don't do crazy elbow.


“No Crazy Elbow” – I like it!!!! LOL

That sounds like something Ted Nugent would say, which I consider to be a huge compliment.


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## George Fedelski (Nov 13, 2015)

I've never experienced this string slap you speak about.
Perhaps my grip is wrong as I've only been been using a recurve bow for 4 months.


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## maddog20/20 (Oct 13, 2015)

George Fedelski said:


> I've never experienced this string slap you speak about.
> Perhaps my grip is wrong as I've only been been using a recurve bow for 4 months.


lol...patience. You'll know it when you see it.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I can't believe that a thread on arm guards for trad has garnered 77 (now 78) replies and 1618 views. This may turn into a worthy rival of the Archery Shoes thread over on the FITA forum, 458 replies and 102,743 views, starting in December of 2007. We can beat it. Let's show some Trad pride.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=601182


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## George Fedelski (Nov 13, 2015)

Archery shoes? Is there such a thing. I wear sandals when it's above freezing and Uggs when it's cold.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

My case for the arm guard:

They look cool and smack of “archery”. (Plus, when my nose is running in cold weather, I can only efficiently wipe it upon my draw arm's bare sleeve, and thus am able to remain presentable in polite company so long as I stay turned slightly to the left. This helps me to avoid looks of disgust and the need to make up a fantastic explanation involving being attacked by rabid snails whilst pulling my arrow from the target bag.)

I usually don’t need one for harsh slaps, but I have had them in the past and history does indeed repeat … even if infrequently. 

Experimentation with certain form geometries can invite an unexpected arm slap.

With a Hill longbow, I frequently catch some “post-shot string flutter” against the arm guard. Without the arm guard, the flutter would be against either my bare arm or sleeve material _*(which, when threadbare at that area, would require either a cheap, tacky patch or a new and expensive garment)*_. 

When I tote the bow about, the serving continually rubs against the arm guard. Without the arm guard, the serving would rub against either my bare arm or sleeve material *(which, when threadbare at that area, would require either a cheap, tacky patch or a new and expensive garment)*. 

The one time I went several months without an arm guard, I unknowingly wore a hole in one of my favorite flannel shirt sleeves due to the string subtly and silently grazing past that area. Never interferred with a shot or “caught” the sleeve … but a large, shredded hole was surprisingly noted one day *(which, now threadbare at that area, did indeed require a cheap, tacky patch followed by a new and expensive garment)*.

Please note my repeating theme. *Cheap, tacky patches and expensive new garments irk my gall*. 

YGMV (Your Garments May Vary)


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## George Fedelski (Nov 13, 2015)

I would think that if you have string slap, simple psychics would tell you the the string hitting your arm would result in pain and loss of energy to the arrow due to friction. 

I don't grip the bow like I'm hanging on to a water ski tow rope, the riser just kind of floats in my palm with my thumb curved around it.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

George, 

Yes, simple physics happens. In addition to what you mentioned, slapping the arm guard can disrupt the string's pattern of motion and divert the arrow off-target.

The string flutter I mentioned with the Hill bow occurs after my shot when the bow recoils. It doesn't happen every time, but when it does, I feel a subtle "brrrrr" down on the guard near my wrist as the string's final vibrations chatter to a stop.


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## Wobbley (Sep 26, 2014)

Thin Man said:


> It doesn't happen every time, but when it does, I feel a subtle "brrrrr" down on the guard near my wrist as the string's final vibrations chatter to a stop.


Same for me, occasional "bzzzzzt" against my armguard. And it is annoying enough against a bare arm to want an arm guard.


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## DJ Hardy (Jan 18, 2016)

Some bows I need one some I don't.
One thing I know is if the string bites me good I will most likely miss the next shot.


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## superkodiaks (Mar 14, 2016)

No arm guard for me, my recurve a have a 7.5" brace. In the winter I will wear one to hold my bulky sleeves down.


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## NickAntz (Sep 22, 2015)

Few years takedown recurve and horsebow mediterranean draw. Used only bow and arrows. No guards, tabs or gloves. As long as my bowarm's elbow was looking upwards (slightly) the string always missed me. After so many years, I can't draw with the elbow looking down. But now I am learning thumbring.


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## 4 Fletch (Jan 25, 2014)

I've never used one. 

Altho some of the ones I've seen made by AT members some and birch bark ones made by a northern wilderness woman that have me wondering if I ought to get one.


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## futuretrash (Feb 20, 2013)

I've been shooting trad and compound for many many years, I think at a certain point I just stopped hitting my arm and it was no longer necessary. I never wear a guard now and never hit my arm.


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## jerseyboy1 (Nov 14, 2009)

Been shooting trad for 46 years and not once have i hit my arm or used an arm guard. Its all about your form


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## octocog (May 21, 2015)

I wore an armguard when I first started shooting, and never felt any string slap. After awhile I just stopped using the armguard, and haven't used one since. Thankfully I've never had any string slap. Shooting with brace height of 7.75 in.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

This came back, so I can't resist commenting again.

So the question is:

Is your form optimized to keep the string safely away from your arm, even when you tweak an arrow?

or,

Is your form optimized to putting the arrow in the middle regardless of whether you brush your arm?

Some folks probably have a physiology that helps, but if you are really pushing full alignment and/or expansion, you are likely going to be close to brushing your arm guard. You don't typically see Olympic shooters not using arm guards, and they have pretty good form.

This is not just about rotating your arm into the correct position so it bends parallel to the ground. 

So if you never at least brush your arm, take a look at your bow arm and alignment throughout the shot cycle. If you have a big gap between your arm and the string then you may not be reaching full alignment, and/or you may not be extending your bow arm.

I see a lot of compound shooters that use a bent arm. There is not much chance of hitting our arm if it is bent out of the way. I have seen some recurve shooters do this as well.


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## Sauk Mountain (Aug 3, 2015)

I have Popeye forearms and shoot a longbow with a somewhat low brace height. I wear one.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Sauk Mountain said:


> I have Popeye forearms and shoot a longbow with a somewhat low brace height. I wear one.


I grew up sans spinach, and you can tell. Just look at that toothpick of a bow arm in my avatar.


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## 1313nortac (Feb 14, 2016)

I only use an armguard to hold a loose sleeve away from my string. Short sleeve,no guard

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Todd the archer (Feb 7, 2003)

Continuing what Hank said about alignment and Olympic archers also should note most use a chest protector as well and not just woman.

Google image Olympic archers and you will see what I mean.


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## millerman715 (Nov 25, 2015)

I've never had the need with my setup and brace height, definstely important to encourage the use of one to someone just starting off.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I have been thinking about how someone could shoot for years and never hit their arm. After looking at some pictures of traditional folks shooting on a different forum, the light bulb turned on. Draw a line from your head, to your elbow, to your hand, to form a triangle. Your arm is on the leg of this triangle that connects your head to your hand. For an upright shooter, this triangle is flat, resulting in very tight clearance with your arm. As you lean forward, the triangle gets taller, creating more clearance. So I am suggesting that if you are a shooter who bends forward and cants, you have more clearance. This seems to make sense but since I am not a leaner, I have not confirmed it. You can see my posture in the picture. I have classic upright form and the string comes very close to my arm. If I tweak the string, or over expand, I can get hit. The arm guard is new from EW Bateman. I wanted something a bit longer than what I was using. I used to shoot the small Beiter arm guards that target shooters use, or Easton, which are bit bigger. I went to leather while working on form to protect against the arm strikes when I tweak the string. Leather is an issue when you have tight clearance because of the thickness, which makes it easier to catch the string on the leading edge. That is why I went to a guard that was a little longer, so that I can move the leading edge closer to my elbow.


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## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> I have been thinking about how someone could shoot for years and never hit their arm. After looking at some pictures of traditional folks shooting on a different forum, the light bulb turned on. Draw a line from your head, to your elbow, to your hand, to form a triangle. Your arm is on the leg of this triangle that connects your head to your hand. For an upright shooter, this triangle is flat, resulting in very tight clearance with your arm. As you lean forward, the triangle gets taller, creating more clearance. So I am suggesting that if you are a shooter who bends forward and cants, you have more clearance. This seems to make sense but since I am not a leaner, I have not confirmed it. You can see my posture in the picture. I have classic upright form and the string comes very close to my arm. If I tweak the string, or over expand, I can get hit. The arm guard is new from EW Bateman. I wanted something a bit longer than what I was using. I used to shoot the small Beiter arm guards that target shooters use, or Easton, which are bit bigger. I went to leather while working on form to protect against the arm strikes when I tweak the string. Leather is an issue when you have tight clearance because of the thickness, which makes it easier to catch the string on the leading edge. That is why I went to a guard that was a little longer, so that I can move the leading edge closer to my elbow.


A picture tells all. I like your solid stance. I try for the same stance except I rotate the grip a lot more. If I didn't I would hit my arm regularly. I'm not saying your grip is wrong, it's classic but it's high risk for sure. I cant(no lean) trad bows shot off shelf and you are right canting is rotation without of bow rather than grip, it improves elbow/arm clearance.
I agree that changing your form to get rid of the armguard is a dubious tactic but those of us that hunt in cold climate really have to work at clearance. This is were target and hunting priorities diverge.


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## maddog20/20 (Oct 13, 2015)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> I have been thinking about how someone could shoot for years and never hit their arm. After looking at some pictures of traditional folks shooting on a different forum, the light bulb turned on. Draw a line from your head, to your elbow, to your hand, to form a triangle. Your arm is on the leg of this triangle that connects your head to your hand. For an upright shooter, this triangle is flat, resulting in very tight clearance with your arm. As you lean forward, the triangle gets taller, creating more clearance. So I am suggesting that if you are a shooter who bends forward and cants, you have more clearance. This seems to make sense but since I am not a leaner, I have not confirmed it. You can see my posture in the picture. I have classic upright form and the string comes very close to my arm. If I tweak the string, or over expand, I can get hit. The arm guard is new from EW Bateman. I wanted something a bit longer than what I was using. I used to shoot the small Beiter arm guards that target shooters use, or Easton, which are bit bigger. I went to leather while working on form to protect against the arm strikes when I tweak the string. Leather is an issue when you have tight clearance because of the thickness, which makes it easier to catch the string on the leading edge. That is why I went to a guard that was a little longer, so that I can move the leading edge closer to my elbow.


Funny you said that. I was just thinking about it yesterday as I have a tendency to catch the back end of my leather arm guard every once in a while because I shoot so upright.

I'm actually going to have a leather guard made that goes further back on my forearm to try to avoid that.


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## dangeruss (May 10, 2010)

I am always loosing mine, which I always regret cause Ill still shoot and the next day I look like a junkie when im out in public. haha. I think for most its a good idea. Me especially.


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