# Freestyle Setup...Got Some Questions



## 10xring (Jun 10, 2003)

*What I do....*

1) The smaller the clearer the sight picture. I am using a 5/64" peep now and I like it. 1/16" is too small and too dark on dark ranges/targets or late in the day for me. 3/32" might also work for you.

2) I set the sight extension to fit the housing into the size of the peep I am using for better alignment. I find it hard to align a housing with the peep if I can't see the housing in the peep.

3) I use only 1 side.

4) Balance the bow with the front stab weights, the v-bar and mass bow weight. Don't be afraid to experiment.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

4a) Keep your arrow rest simple but functional. My drop away will be replaced very soon.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

1. Peep size...that is going to depend on your eyes, sight length and your scope size....I shoot a Fletcher....and use a custom size most times. The micro is smaller then I need so I usually either use the next size up OR drill out the micro to be just a little bigger. When I use a clarifier it is a little different because of what they do to light. So I usually shoot one size up from my normal size.

2. Sight Extension....that is also a personal thing...the closer your sight is to the riser though the higher and tighter your marks are going to be. If you have trouble getting 80+ then you can move your bar in and get it. But the extension also changes the clarity of your scope and you may have to adjust your peep size. I shoot my ANTS almost fully extended...I am only one maybe 2 holes from the end of the bar...but most people don't.

3. V-bars...that is up to you. Most guys usually have two or none. It's a matter of what you are trying to do. IMO more people would have better luck with one bar to off set the sight or none and just use back weight. But most FS guys shoot 2 because they think they need them or because they like the way it looks I don't like two bars and haven't used two in god knows how long. If you don't figure this one out...I will show you a couple tricks next time I see you with your bow it's VERY easy to get that bow balanced:wink:

Balance it to feel right in your hand and at full draw....I could careless how my bows balance hanging from a string or whatever....it doesn't get shot that way:wink:

4. Other suggestion....set every thing up the way you would your BHFS rig other then using a different sight and a longer rod.....get used to it...then start experimenting.:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

oh yeah....stop drawing so fast.:wink:

Slow down and be smooth.....

put the weight on the end of that rod also:wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

mdbowhunter said:


> Well, I'm gonna try this style...and I got some questions. Here goes....
> 
> 1. Peep size- What do you recommend?
> Large enough for all light conditions and to allow careful centering of the sight housing
> ...


Try different sight configurations; a pin isn't alway the ticket to X's


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JAVI said:


> Try different sight configurations; a pin isn't alway the ticket to X's


You got that right....I have seen a TON of lenses this year with nothing on them....and I shoot a blank lens indoors.:wink:


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

Once you start experimenting you will quickly develop a taste for what works for you. When you get a dovetail sight/scope setup get the longer extension rod. This will give you more room to experiment plus it does not usually cost any extra. I was using a truspot 60mm scope with a 1/8" apature I needed the the full extension of the sight bar. When I switched to a smaller housing and peep I found myself on the third or second "divot". Here is a comparison. Your settings will depend on you and your equipment so pic stuff that will give you flexibility until you find what you really like.
first pic with full extension.








second vid with no extension.
http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/cookak/archery/?action=view&current=100_2076.flv


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

pragmatic_lee said:


> 4a) Keep your arrow rest simple but functional. My drop away will be replaced very soon.


Yep. Removed my TT Drop Away for the Tuner. So far, so good.



Brown Hornet said:


> oh yeah....stop drawing so fast.:wink:
> 
> Slow down and be smooth.....
> 
> put the weight on the end of that rod also:wink:


Shame you didn't see me shoot with the Tuner. *BIG* difference. Not that my score showed it. 



JAVI said:


> Try different sight configurations; a pin isn't alway the ticket to X's


Using a 4X Vegas Top Gun scope with a round orange circle. Seems to work good on both the Field and Hunter faces. I like centering the dot in the circle...so far.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Shame you didn't see me shoot with the Tuner. *BIG* difference. Not that my score showed it.


But how is that shoulder?:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> But how is that shoulder?:wink:


I need to do the mirror thing like you suggested. I'm sure it's still not right. Itchy's pic shows it perfectly. 

It's at the top of my *VERY LONG* list of things to work on.


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

My best recommendation is to beg and borrow as much different main steam equipment you can get your hands on. Try different configurations of stuff. See what works best for you. I see a lot of people load up the bow with all sorts of accessories then go out and try to shoot it. the set up is so different to what they are used to shooting they really struggle with it.

Start slow target sight, scope, lenses, stabilizer ect. try to find what set of each you like and shoot the best.


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

And keep a journal so that you know what shot the best. Group size, feel of the shot, movement of your "dot", more glare or less glare. Any thing that can help you track and find the sweetest combination.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

10xring said:


> 1) The smaller the clearer the sight picture. I am using a 5/64" peep now and I like it. 1/16" is too small and too dark on dark ranges/targets or late in the day for me. 3/32" might also work for you.
> 
> 2) I set the sight extension to fit the housing into the size of the peep I am using for better alignment. I find it hard to align a housing with the peep if I can't see the housing in the peep.
> 
> ...


Great info. Thanks!



jarlicker said:


> My best recommendation is to beg and borrow as much different main steam equipment you can get your hands on. Try different configurations of stuff. See what works best for you. I see a lot of people load up the bow with all sorts of accessories then go out and try to shoot it. the set up is so different to what they are used to shooting they really struggle with it.
> 
> Start slow target sight, scope, lenses, stabilizer ect. try to find what set of each you like and shoot the best.


That's my first thoughts too. No sense in loading-up on all kinds of gizmos at this time. Actually, my set-up is pretty simple...just like my BHFS bows. :tongue:



swerve said:


> And keep a journal so that you know what shot the best. Group size, feel of the shot, movement of your "dot", more glare or less glare. Any thing that can help you track and find the sweetest combination.


Good idea swerve. :tongue: Actually, I have a journal that dates back to 1993!  Got notes on just about every bow I've owned since then. But, it lacks the details you describe. Time to make some new entries...... :wink:


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## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> oh yeah....stop drawing so fast.:wink:
> 
> Slow down and be smooth.....
> 
> put the weight on the end of that rod also:wink:


:mg::mg::mg::mg::mg: :zip::zip::zip:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

jarlicker said:


> My best recommendation is to beg and borrow as much different main steam equipment you can get your hands on. Try different configurations of stuff. See what works best for you. I see a lot of people load up the bow with all sorts of accessories then go out and try to shoot it. the set up is so different to what they are used to shooting they really struggle with it.
> 
> Start slow target sight, scope, lenses, stabilizer ect. try to find what set of each you like and shoot the best.


Man I tried that...Jerry looked like a deer in headlights when I started pulling out extra X10 stab parts and connecters and what not.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Man I tried that...Jerry looked like a deer in headlights when I started pulling out extra X10 stab parts and connecters and what not.


Awww, c'mon...I wasn't that overwhelmed!  Your setup is pretty simple too...from what I remember. :tongue: 

Only thing above and beyond what I've used in the past is a v-bar on the left. I gotta compensate for that heavier Sure Loc sight. Otherwise, I'm gonna need Popeye arms to keep it level!!!


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

mdbowhunter said:


> Awww, c'mon...I wasn't that overwhelmed!  Your setup is pretty simple too...from what I remember. :tongue:
> 
> Only thing above and beyond what I've used in the past is a v-bar on the left. I gotta compensate for that heavier Sure Loc sight. Otherwise, I'm gonna need Popeye arms to keep it level!!!


Get fully adjustable vbars and sidebar mounts if you go that route. Sometimes the stabs you have already will work if you just move the weight to a different location or angle. :wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

itchyfinger said:


> Get fully adjustable vbars and sidebar mounts if you go that route. Sometimes the stabs you have already will work if you just move the weight to a different location or angle. :wink:


I agree....but his bow will balance VERY well without using regular Vbar mounts....you just have to know what to get and where to put it:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

itchyfinger said:


> Get fully adjustable vbars and sidebar mounts if you go that route. Sometimes the stabs you have already will work if you just move the weight to a different location or angle. :wink:


Thanks Itchy. Yep, I already have one of the fully adjustable v-bar mounts you recommend. Only problem I'm having is keeping the hardware tight so the rod stays in position.  I figure a little blue Loctite will fix that. :tongue:


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> I agree....but his bow will balance VERY well without using regular Vbar mounts....you just have to know what to get and where to put it:wink:


I really like that doinker adjustable sidebar mount like the one you have. That thing is sweet. :tongue:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

itchyfinger said:


> I really like that doinker adjustable sidebar mount like the one you have. That thing is sweet. :tongue:


Ahhh, thanks Itchy.  I was ready to PM Hornet and ask what he uses. The cat is outta the bag...:wink:


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

mdbowhunter said:


> Ahhh, thanks Itchy.  I was ready to PM Hornet and ask what he uses. The cat is outta the bag...:wink:


AEP also makes a really adjustable side mount.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

swerve said:


> AEP also makes a really adjustable side mount.


Thanks swerve. I'll check it out. 

Right now I have the Cartel unit which has lots of adjustability. I'll have to experiment with position and weight to find what balances-out the sight.


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## TCR1 (Dec 22, 2004)

mdbowhunter said:


> Thanks swerve. I'll check it out.
> 
> Right now I have the Cartel unit which has lots of adjustability. I'll have to experiment with position and weight to find what balances-out the sight.


I couldn't keep my cartel tight either. I think something mounted into the face of the bow would be best (rear stabilizer bushing).

You didn't see all the martins set up in the group of VaVince, Brown Hornet, Sticky and myself, but I will say that the only thing they had in common was simplicity.
BH had his adjustable offset with X10s (S4 Mag Nitrous), I had cartel front and side rod withside rod mounted to a cheap offset bar (S4 mag nitrous), Vince was running a single sided offset bar (S4 elite furious shoot through)and sticky was the only one running three bars. He had a simple non-adjustable v bar block (Mystic Furious shoot through). 

Three of us were shooting ants and one was shooting an Axcel. I think everyone was shooting CR scopes though...simple, inexpensive and very nice.

I don't have much opportunity to play around with stabs without dumping buckets of money into them, but in your area, you should be able to pull some stuff together. Hopefully you can shoot several rounds withdiffernt set ups and really get to know each one and make a good decision and go with it. 

Changing equipment all the time is not going to help shooting, thats for sure (from experience:embara


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## xpuncher (Apr 16, 2005)

Hey Jerry you don't have to shoot with v bars or a side bar. That sure loc doesn't way any mor then your site for BHFS. Find the right weight combo to balance the bow and not overweight it. Tried vbars and single offset and didn't like any of them. I just run some back weight. Let me Know I have Some stuff you can try.:wink:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

I found that I needed some backweight.. just a long weighted front stab was too front heavy for me. I run the Posten Slim Jimmz, which offer adjustable end weights..presently I shoot full weights on all three, haven't really played too much with switching around weights, it balances pretty nicely for me. I just needed more mass and to get some rear weight so I could run weight on the front. I honestly don't notice a right side heavy with the present setup as one may expect.. :wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

lots of stabilizers have the weight in the wrong place... you can balance a 9lb bow to feel like a 7lb bow if you place the weight in the correct places.. 

Sometimes more is less... and sometimes less is more...


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

AND...with some exceptions..>MORE is NOT always better...:tongue::wink:

Like MORE bend in the bowarm usually does NOT work well at all
like MORE poundage can create problems, just like MORE letoff can.
Just like MORE overdraw or drawlength usually creates MORE problems than it solves.

etc, etc, etc...and depending upon MORE technology when you don't have the "form" for it doesn't give anything but headaches....:wink::tongue:

field14:darkbeer:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

More X's... :tongue:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

MORE practice, LESS tinkering or techno-toying around.

field14


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

field14 said:


> MORE practice, LESS tinkering or techno-toying around.
> 
> field14


Less typing and more serious training...:wink:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Ok, I got the hint.. :nyah:

I'm off to shoot til dark..  :bolt:


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Wow!

I'm saving this thread!


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## Stormbringer (May 22, 2006)

I'll just add a "newbie" comment in here...

I've never met any of y'all...to compare bows, but, recently, (last week), I was shown that my scope would actually get low enough in the sight window to attempt 80 yards, I'd never gone past 50 before getting my '07 S4 Elite w/Nitrous X set up...
I shot my first indoor 5 spot "300" with this bow...SureLoc Supreme 550 w/9" sight extension, BullsEye Millinium AP scope housing, TrueSpot 6x-1/4 grind lense, 1/8th #1 clarifier, Beiter 2 tuner 30" front rod, 90*x17* Beiter V Bar, Beiter 10" side rods with 1.5oz Shibuya cap weights on the v bars, Martin Mt ProTuner...
OK, back to the thrill of shooting out to 80 yards, well...today it was a 60 cm target face at 60 yards...I've only shot this distance with that target face twice last week.
Today, 6 arrows per end, times 5 ends could end up with a score of 300, right? (I'm new to this!), anyway, first score was 233...the next 5 end match with myself turned out to be 235, the last 5 end match went down to 225 

The 60 cm target face at 80 yards I've netted a couple of 200 score, 5 end matchs.

I'm trying to get all the practice I can this year, because next year...if I feel I'm good enough shot to actually go to some local shoots next year, I will! 

There's so many different venues in the archery world, I never thought I'd try to compete, but, the way my bow setup seems to work the way it evolved in its final set up, it seems to be a "universal" set up for _FreeStyle_...ya think?

I may be on the right path!?! (<---a question of sorts!)



2005Ultramag said:


> Wow!
> 
> I'm saving this thread!


Yeah!
I'm glad I ran across this one!


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

TCR1 said:


> I couldn't keep my cartel tight either. I think something mounted into the face of the bow would be best (rear stabilizer bushing).


Good...someone else with the same issue. Must be something in the design of the Cartel. Shame, its got lots of adjustability. 

My Hoyt Ultra Elite and Pro Elite have a slightly downward facing hole on the face of the riser near the bottom. Guess I could do it...just a bit tougher.



xpuncher said:


> Hey Jerry you don't have to shoot with v bars or a side bar. That sure loc doesn't way any mor then your site for BHFS. Find the right weight combo to balance the bow and not overweight it. Tried vbars and single offset and didn't like any of them. I just run some back weight. Let me Know I have Some stuff you can try.:wink:


Hate to say this Bruce, but I've always liked the lighter pin sights just for this reason. I naturally cant to the right. If I can find a v-bar that compensates...the fight is over. :tongue:



JAVI said:


> lots of stabilizers have the weight in the wrong place... you can balance a 9lb bow to feel like a 7lb bow if you place the weight in the correct places..
> 
> Sometimes more is less... and sometimes less is more...


Exactly! I've picked up a few FS bows that looked like they should be heavy, but at full draw they balanced nice. Just gotta find the right combination.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

2005Ultramag said:


> Wow!
> 
> I'm saving this thread!


Yep...lots of good info here.

THANKS to everyone!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Good...someone else with the same issue. Must be something in the design of the Cartel. Shame, its got lots of adjustability.
> 
> My Hoyt Ultra Elite and Pro Elite have a slightly downward facing hole on the face of the riser near the bottom. Guess I could do it...just a bit tougher.
> 
> ...


Like I said in a PM....there is a reason the Cartel stuff is cheaper then the Doinker or Shibuya connectors:wink:

Doinker has a connector that MIGHT work in that hole....I used to have a Vibracheck coupler that was PERFECT for that hole....AEP also makes a connector that will work in there:wink:

I don't care how the bow balances at rest....I shoot the bow with my hand and from full draw:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Like I said in a PM....there is a reason the Cartel stuff is cheaper then the Doinker or Shibuya connectors:wink:
> 
> Doinker has a connector that MIGHT work in that hole....I used to have a Vibracheck coupler that was PERFECT for that hole....AEP also makes a connector that will work in there:wink:
> 
> I don't care how the bow balances at rest....I shoot the bow with my hand and from full draw:wink:


$50 compared to $65...not much difference. Must be a better design.

Yes, I'm only concerned with the feel at full draw. When I get anchored and the bubble is buried on the left side  I figure it's time to try some counter-weight.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> $50 compared to $65...not much difference. Must be a better design.
> 
> Yes, I'm only concerned with the feel at full draw. When I get anchored and the bubble is buried on the left side  I figure it's time to try some counter-weight.


It isn't much....but look at the price...it's only $65 not $650...so $15 is a big difference:wink: 

Or look at your grip....maybe you have that lean for a reason:noidea:


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> It isn't much....but look at the price...it's only $65 not $650...so $15 is a big difference:wink:
> 
> Or look at your grip....maybe you have that lean for a reason:noidea:


That's what I was thinking. If the 2nd axis is set correctly then the bow is definately getting canted at anchor. If you add weight to correct a faulty grip then you will have a heavy bow and a numb forearm. The nerve that runs between the inside of your thumb and pointer finger will get some abuse for sure.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

itchyfinger said:


> That's what I was thinking. If the 2nd axis is set correctly then the bow is definately getting canted at anchor. If you add weight to correct a faulty grip then you will have a heavy bow and a numb forearm. The nerve that runs between the inside of your thumb and pointer finger will get some abuse for sure.


There are several things which can cause a natural "cant" some are curable such as an incorrect hand placement, or a rolled shoulder but others are not as easily fixed and so we have the first axis on most modern target sights. 

To accommodate a natural "cant" simply set the vertical ramp of the sight to be level when at full draw while standing on level ground, then adjust the second axis to match after which the third axis can be set... 

I would recommend weighting the bow to compensate only as a last resort...


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Or look at your grip....maybe you have that lean for a reason:noidea:





itchyfinger said:


> That's what I was thinking. If the 2nd axis is set correctly then the bow is definately getting canted at anchor. If you add weight to correct a faulty grip then you will have a heavy bow and a numb forearm. The nerve that runs between the inside of your thumb and pointer finger will get some abuse for sure.


I don't *THINK* I have a grip issue...but then again I didn't think I had too short a draw length earlier this year either...

Jeez, ever feel like you're starting all over again?


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

mdbowhunter said:


> I don't *THINK* I have a grip issue...but then again I didn't think I had too short a draw length earlier this year either...
> 
> Jeez, ever feel like you're starting all over again?


I'd lay odds that you are not letting your shoulders fall naturally and instead are rolling the shoulders when you set the back:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JAVI said:


> I'd lay odds that you are not letting your shoulders fall naturally and instead are rolling the shoulders when you set the back:wink:


You can take those odds to the bank....pay the man:wink:

You put things in better words then I do....I have being trying to figure out a way to fix Jerry's shoulders for a while now.:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

JAVI said:


> I'd lay odds that you are not letting your shoulders fall naturally and instead are rolling the shoulders when you set the back:wink:





Brown Hornet said:


> You can take those odds to the bank....pay the man:wink:
> 
> You put things in better words then I do....I have being trying to figure out a way to fix Jerry's shoulders for a while now.:wink:


OK...you gotta give me a bit more info.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> OK...you gotta give me a bit more info.


You know what I told you about your shoulders.....and where they need to be....or at least where I would like them to be....Javi is basically saying the same thing.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

mdbowhunter said:


> OK...you gotta give me a bit more info.


quit sucking in your gut....:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> You know what I told you about your shoulders.....and where they need to be....or at least where I would like them to be....Javi is basically saying the same thing.


OK. I thought JAVI was talking about something different.



JAVI said:


> quit sucking in your gut....:wink:


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