# Victory Ares arrow says do not shoot in bows over 29#



## C.Perkins (Sep 25, 2013)

I purchased these to start with at my newbie level at 24-26 pound limbs.
They have been working pretty good for me out to 40 meters.
Going to up my poundage into the 30's.
Do I need to purchase different arrows ?
I know the shaft says not above 29 lbs.
What could happen at a heavier weight ?
Part of me says get new arrows, but the other part asks do I need too ?

Any thoughts on this ?
I know, err on the side of caution, but just gots to know.

Thanks;
Clarence


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

you could break the arrow at the shot if it is really under spine and risk getting pieces of arrow in your bow arm/hand.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Something the legal people have to say..

That being said, Ares shafts are spined at 500. At 7.2gpi they are quite heavy at 330+gn total. (AND WHY DO THEY CALL THEM YOUTH ARROWS!!!!)
I'm surprised they have 100gn points.

That would be a very slow arrow. And WAY over spined. Recommendations would be in the 800 spine area

If your AMO is 31.25 That suggests you are already pulling close to 29lbs (have you measured your OTF weight?)

You probably should be in the 800ish spine area. For your current arrows.

If you are truly shooting a 31.25" AMO length, then those VAP arrows are just on the verge of dropping off your rest.. the plunger would be at 29.5 and the arrow shaft of a the Ares is 29" add the nock distance and you get 29.375-29.5" so your point is basically sitting on the arrow rest.

Working the other direction, To get a 500 spine arrow to get close to matching your bow, at 29" shaft, you would need to be pulling 40+lbs. (according to the charts which will probably still put you on the stiff side)


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Clarence, unless an error in Lancaster catalog they are showing the Ares shafts as .500 spine and 29" stock length. At your draw they must be very near the rest. A .500 spine carbon even at your long draw should work up to the 40# range on a recurve. 

Safety factor is pretty high even out of a radical cam compound if stated max is 29#.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

dchan said:


> Something the legal people have to say..
> 
> That being said, Ares shafts are spined at 500. At 7.2gpi they are quite heavy at 330+gn total. (AND WHY DO THEY CALL THEM YOUTH ARROWS!!!!)
> I'm surprised they have 100gn points.
> ...


Wow. What the Ares arrow seems to be saying by being spined at .5 and not to use for 29#+ bows is that their arrows are unsuitable for archery since they will be over spined for the all of the specified range of use.


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## C.Perkins (Sep 25, 2013)

These were the arrows that were in stock locally when i purchased my kit and yes a bit short, but working with what I have.
Have not measured my OTF weight.
The arrows weigh 340 grains including the 100 grain point.
Overall length of the arrow from point to knock is 30.5"
I guess I really should get some new arrows in the proper length cause I am not pulling full draw with these cause they are a bit short, and yes I can pull these all the way through the rest.
You answered my question, will be getting new arrows in the proper length so I can shoot properly instead of not at full draw.
This may be the reason I start to shake at times to get through the clicker cause it does not feel right ?
I should not form bad habits from using wrong equipment that does not fit me.
Looking at Carbon Impacts in 15/25 or 30/40.
Will get rid of the Ares, have 6 used and 7 unused.
Thanks;
Clarence


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

15/25's would be about 30" full length. Add the nock and you get to about 30.375. They would be long enough and pretty close to correct spine for your current rig.

If you want to go a bit stiffer, you might want to try 20/30's and leave them full length. They will be a little on the stiff side for your current rig but just about right for a jump to 28lb limbs (all I would recommend for your jump)

At 72.00 Per doz, all components included (you do have to install the points) They are a bargain.

DC


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## C.Perkins (Sep 25, 2013)

Got up the nerve to have the wife assist me in marking my arrow at full draw in the office.
I am at 30.5" from the knock to the plunger at full draw.(and yes, the arrow falls past the rest).
Are we talking 32" ish full length arrows ?
Thanks for bearing with a newbie and his questions.

Clarence


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Why do I see the non-word "ares" in most of the posts in this thread?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Victory "Ares" arrows. "Youth" 500 spine very heavy carbon arrows (painted) 

http://www.victoryarchery.com/carbon-arrows/target/junior-arrows/


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Wow, both the boys and girls arrows are way way too stupid stiff. Makes me think this company has no clue about archery. Laughing out loud.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

dchan said:


> Victory "Ares" arrows. "Youth" 500 spine very heavy carbon arrows (painted)
> 
> http://www.victoryarchery.com/carbon-arrows/target/junior-arrows/





> Victory Archery has designed a new line of high performance youth arrows that are unique to the industry. There are two models for both boy’s and girls that shoot under 29lb.s of bow poundage. The Boys arrow is called the “Ares” named after the Greek God of War and the girls arrow is called the “Venus” named after the Greek Goddess of Love. Below are the actual specifications of each arrow:
> 
> ARES™
> 
> ...


Well, they are only $60 a dozen for pre-made arrows with feathers and inserts. And at +/- .006" straightness tolerance they are pretty straight for carbon and have much, much better straightness than the Carbon Impact Super Clubs. Probably decent arrows for the price point. But after that, there is so much is wrong. I don't get why the "girls" arrows for 5 to 29 pound bows are .6 and the boys are .5. Or the pink for girls - some girls may want that, but in general it is sort of sexist to presume they do. 

And .500 arrows for a 5 pound bow???? And a top limit of 29# for arrows that are spined for above 29#?

Calling these "the first high performance arrows for serious junior archers" is just nonsense. Easton has been making high quality arrows for junior archers for decades. The entry level alloy "Blues" and "Jaz" arrows have a straightness of .002" and .005" respectively, and the Jazz come in spines down to 2.5" (albeit in a 26" length). Perhaps Victory thinks arrows began with carbon?

We use somewhat overspined arrows for _beginners_ all the time. It makes sense not to use delicate arrows when people are just learning, so we use a variety of spines, but not .500s for goodness sakes. And "serious junior archers" should definitely not buy arrows arrows for themselves that are so totally wrong for their draw weight.

/rant 
:dontknow:


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

TER said:


> Wow, both the boys and girls arrows are way way too stupid stiff. Makes me think this company has no clue about archery. Laughing out loud.


This has everything to do with the US Federal excise tax on archery equipment, which doesn't apply to products sold as suitable for under- wait for it- 29 lbs.

Now you know why.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

>--gt--> said:


> This has everything to do with the US Federal excise tax on archery equipment, which doesn't apply to products sold as suitable for under- wait for it- 29 lbs.
> 
> Now you know why.


That's a very interesting tidbit for why they are marked as not for above 29#, and very cool to know. I forget about that tax sometimes. I'm thinking, though, that it doesn't fully explain why these _.500_ spine arrows are marketed as "the first high performance arrows for serious junior archers" for bows as low as 5# :dontknow:


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

C.Perkins said:


> Got up the nerve to have the wife assist me in marking my arrow at full draw in the office.
> I am at 30.5" from the knock to the plunger at full draw.(and yes, the arrow falls past the rest).
> Are we talking 32" ish full length arrows ?
> Thanks for bearing with a newbie and his questions.
> ...


Ok. With this new info,

30.5" to the plunger puts you at an AMO DL of 32.25" So if you take the long limbs at 24lbs + 2lb/in increasing from 28" that would put you around 32-33lbs on the fingers assuming the limbs are not starting to stack at 32.25"

You would want an arrow as a beginner/early intermediate to be at least an inch past the rest, maybe 1.25" past the rest. That puts you at 31.75" - 32" for the arrow length (nock groove to end of shaft)

Your choices all of a sudden become a bit more limited in the carbon impact line. . in alloy arrows/beginner level I know NEOS come that long but that's a very basic arrow and quite heavy.

In Carbon impact super clubs you will need to go to the 30/40 (I believe) The rest of the carbon Impacts (20/30's and smaller)will come up a little short. The 20/30 is just barely 30.5" If you are just starting there is a good chance your DL may actually increase a little..


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ah, here we go:



> --_Archery parts and accessories for bows, broadheads, *points *and quivers_--
> 
> There is imposed on the sale by the manufacturer, producer, or importer of any part or accessory suitable for inclusion in or attachment to a bow described in subparagraph (A), and of any quiver, broadhead, or *point suitable for use with a taxable arrow.* IRC 4161(b)(1)(B)
> 
> ...


[emphasis added]

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small...f-Fishing-and-Archery-Products#archerysubject

So, if I read this right, bows under 30# aren't subject to the excise tax, nor are the shafts for arrows for those bows, or the points for those arrows. And it doesn't matter whether the arrows are assembled or not, the tax is on the shafts and the points directly.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Thanks for the link Warbow, we are subjects of taxation! Interesting how they have pretty much broken down every component of a bow that is either subject or not. Good grief a quiver tax because it holds your taxed arrows, but no tax on tabs, armguards, or chest protectors do to the fact that they want us protected so we can continue to pay taxes:tongue:


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## Endopotential (Aug 17, 2013)

dchan said:


> In Carbon impact super clubs you will need to go to the 30/40 (I believe) The rest of the carbon Impacts (20/30's and smaller)will come up a little short. The 20/30 is just barely 30.5" If you are just starting there is a good chance your DL may actually increase a little..


I can confirm that. My AMO DL is about 30.5, and I was able to get the Super Clubs 30/40 long enough. I've shot them up to 38lbs on the finger, and they seem to fly just fine. The biggest limitation at this point is my own skill.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Hmm...actually, now it looks to me that *any* arrow shaft that is longer than 18" is taxable, 30# bow or not. So the "only for bows under 29#" thing wouldn't be for tax purposes.



> *any shaft *(whether sold separately or incorporated as part of a finished or unfinished product) of a type used in the manufacture of *any arrow which* after its assembly *measures 18 inches *overall or more in length,


It seems that only arrows under 18" may be exempt but only if they are used in non-taxible bows. There would be no need for the special children's wooden arrow exemption if regular arrows that are only for bows under 30#s (arrows that would be suitable for children, no special children's category needed) are non-taxible. But I also know that tax laws are Byzantine, so reading the "plain" language on the IRS website may not correspond exactly with the way the law is interpreted by them or enforced. Maybe the shaft is still taxable, but not the points? :dontknow:


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## C.Perkins (Sep 25, 2013)

Is it common to have your draw length increase ?
I started with a 31.25 AMO DL and have been practicing for about a month on targets and also draw and hold at home to get into shape.
Now I am at 32.25 AMO DL.
Wish I would have not bought 13 arrows at the previous length.
I am going to get the longest length I can and only 6 arrows and work from there for awhile I guess until my draw length stays put.
This has been a learning curve.
Thanks to all that have reponded.
I do have 7 of these arrows that are still new if anyone is interested ?
Thanks;
Clarence


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