# Cartel spine Chart



## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

Can anyone tell me where I can see a Cartel spine chart? I went in to the Doosung website and I could'nt see it. (I am contemplating on getting some Triples or even some X-perts.) 

Rchr


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## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

There is one on the Alternative site........There may be one on Lancaster too. I just recieved a new Lancaster catalog in the mail today, and was surprised to see that they now carry Triples, priced at $159.00 per doz. They have a spine chart in the catalog.

They also list Beiter insert 3.98 nocks for the Triples too. Titanium pins for triples. Wish I had known, I just ordered another dozen from Alternative a couple of weeks ago. 

Lots of interesting things in the new catalog.


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## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

*Thanks*

Thanks,
I am currently waiting on the catalog.


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## denseb (Jun 12, 2003)

you can go on www.altservices.co.uk
the spine of a 520 Ace is nearly the same as a cartel triple 600.
the cartel triple a really good, I already used them 3 years

seb


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## barico (Nov 21, 2004)

I disagree, a 520 is not like a cartel triple 600. the 600 is weaker than an easton 600 shaft.


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## denseb (Jun 12, 2003)

it is not true, you can't compare the cartel and easton spines there aren't the same. A 600 easton is a lot weaker than a 600 cartel
Look in the tabel cartel and in the easton one + in archer's advantage and you will see

seb


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## barico (Nov 21, 2004)

Your so wrong! I shot cartel 400's they tune weaker than ace 520. This is not table data its real data. Go and measure the spine yourself.


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## oldreliable67 (Mar 24, 2003)

A spine chart with both Cartel and Easton is at

http://www.archeryca.com/catalog/index.php


barico, after finding that the Cartel 400s tuned weaker than ACE 520s, did you actually measure the spines and compare? If so, what did you find?


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

The only reliable way I see is to have one of those arrow selecting programs. The charts are malark. I just get confused with all this chart stuff. Somebody told me with a 28" arrow shaft shot out of a 46# recurve that I would need a triple 500. Someone else argues that my 700's will be fine. Who the heck knows. 

Dylan


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## barico (Nov 21, 2004)

The triple 500 should be weak to ok with your setup. My friend shoots 500's 90gr point with 40# with 29.5" arrows. they do not tune and are too weak. Maybe 400's would be best for you with 110gr points.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Perry has the Cartel spines in AA. There is no relationship between the Cartel size designation and the spine value. Is this correct or did someone give Perry bad information?

400 Triple - spine is .435
500 Triple - spine is .504
600 Triple - spine is .525


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## barico (Nov 21, 2004)

I believe AA is incorrect with those measurements.


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

400's thats insane. ahaha.. Hmm I really need to understand how these arrows are spining.

It says on eastons chart that an ACE 570 @ 28" will do fine at .570 spine. Either a 500-600 cartel should be within the that spine range by what AA is saying.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2005)

FS560 said:


> Perry has the Cartel spines in AA. There is no relationship between the Cartel size designation and the spine value. Is this correct or did someone give Perry bad information?
> 
> 400 Triple - spine is .435
> 500 Triple - spine is .504
> 600 Triple - spine is .525



I had a mold shop test the arrows I and they can up with similar readings to AA for the low to mid range sizes.

My results for the same size arrows were
400 Triple-.432
500 Triple-.502
600 Triple-.527

If you have access to a mathmatician they should be able to accuratly compare Cartels spines measurments to Easton measurments


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## wmt3rd (Oct 20, 2004)

*Here is a link to the Cartel chart*

http://www.alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/00549.5.1656981326218301158


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

I went to the Alternative site as suggested and got a message saying that the page is not available and to go to the regular site.

There I found the Cartel Triple shaft selection chart. NOT a spine chart. A shaft selection chart is quite useless to me.

Are you guys still of the mind that the Triple shaft reference number such as 400, 500, 600 is a spine value. It does not appear to be.

Alternative says that the Cartel spine value is for the weight units to deflect the shaft a certain amount. If this were the case the stiffer spine shafts would have a higher number according to cartel.

The AMO spine standard is the amount of deflection with a given weight applied to the shaft.

Moose, at Lancaster was supposed to be checking all this with actual testing. Maybe he is still working on it.

In any event, I do not think it is reasonable to complare a barrelled shaft to a parallel one within the contest of spine values. the barrelled shafts just react so differently to the different power curves of various bows.

Thanks Sean, this is the most definitive info yet.


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

Triples are however parrallel like easton navigators. In eastons arrow selection program it says 610 Nav which is a .610 spine. Meaning 600 (.520 spine) cartels would be a little stiff at 46#'s with a 28" arrow. But I could go with heavier tip weight more then likely.

If of course .520 is the correct spine of a 600 triple.


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## barico (Nov 21, 2004)

I think the 400 is really closer to the 520 spine, the 500 i think is somewhere near to 600.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2005)

The Cartel 500 is just over .500 in spine. The 600 is near the .520 area. The 400 is over the .400 mark I tested them at .435. The Cartel spines are not the arrow size. The 500 just happens to be around that area. I am sure that some one will come up with a mathmatical conversion from Cartel's spine listings to Easton listings


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

I think all Easton carbon arrows after the ACC and ACC Hyperspeed are labeled with the actual spine value for the size. For example, a Navigator 540 has a spine value of 0.540 inch under AMO testing specifications.


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## mdrecurve (Jun 10, 2005)

I think I have the conversion formula for you 

Use the table at the end of this post to look up the spine (in kg) for Cartel triples. I got this table from the Urban Archery site. Divide 2.5 by this number, then muliply the result by 500. This will give you the equivalent Easton spine.

Example:

Cartel 400: Equivalent Easton spine = (2.5/2.9)*500 = 431
Cartel 600: Equivalent Easton spine = (2.5/2.4)*500 = 521

Note that this gives essentially the exact measured spine of the 400 and 600s reported earlier in this thread. Here are some more:

Cartel 300: Equivalent Easton = 391
Cartel 700: Equivalent Easton = 595
Cartel 800: Equivaent Easton = 658
Cartel 900: Equivalent Easton = 735

Please remember, YMMV.


# (Kg) Easton equivalent
1200	1.8	
1100	1.3	
1000	1.5	
900 1.7	
800 1.9	
700 2.1	
600 2.4 521
500 2.5 500
400 2.9 431
300 3.2


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## mdrecurve (Jun 10, 2005)

I should clarify the assumptions I made in the above conversion formula.

1) I assumed (based upon the measured data) that the Easton 500 was the same as the Cartel 500. This suggests that Cartel chose to give the shaft number 500 to the arrow that has the same behavior as an Easton arrow with a spine of 500. This makes sense to me.
2) I assumed the spine weight vs shaft number given in the Cartel table was correct.
3) I assumed that the deflection was proportional to the spine weight. This is just the basic physics of small deflections of a simple beam.

It is important to note that the spine weight given by Cartel is NOT proportional to the shaft number. If is was then the Cartel shaft number and the Easton spine for all arrows would be the same. Except for 500, they are not.


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## opa (Jul 19, 2003)

MerlinApex:

700 Triples with 90 gr points -> 12.14 % FOC : about 280 gr total weight with fletching
570 ACE with 100 gr points -> 12.8 % FOC : 293 gr total (assuming 15 gr fletching)

Both center green for your setup according to Tap...

Opa


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

Thank you opa.


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## opa (Jul 19, 2003)

mdrecurve:

assumptions:
1: Wrong: 500 Easton has nothing to do with 500 Cartel: they use different ways to measure spine. Easton measures the deflection at a constant weight while Cartel measures the weight needed to get a fixed deflection. IF the spines of the 500 Triple and 500 ACE are the same it's purely coincidental.
No hidden "masterplan"

2: I assume the chart is correct too..

3: Wrong: shaft weight and spine are not directly related: Cartel uses different alu cores for different spines. You therefore cannot use that relationship to base your calculations on.

Best thing to do is to get TAP: Tony has the Cartels in his database 

Opa


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