# Where Are The Pin Shooters?



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Do you really want us FSers to come back DOWN and kick that butt :wink:

But down my way it is the other way around....more pins then FS equipment. I think at states last year the line I shot there were 4-6 FS shooters everyone else shot BHFS.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Do you really want us FSers to come back DOWN and kick that butt :wink:
> 
> But down my way it is the other way around....more pins then FS equipment. I think at states last year the line I shot there were 4-6 FS shooters everyone else shot BHFS.


What's a few more imprints on my arse gonna hurt? :wink:

It was even worse at the HillBilly last year.  Having a pin sight...you definately felt like the red-headed step-child!!!


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

Cause you are the Red headed step children


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

jarlicker said:


> Cause you are the Red headed step children


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

Pins-only, for me. We have a lot of BHFS, including seniors up our way. Many alternate various weeks between BHFS and FS with target and bowhunting setups.

If we want the Average Joe to get involved in Field (Bowhunters and 3D shooters), then BHFS is the way to get them in.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

It's been pins all along for me. I finally found a deal on a target sight last night that my cheap butt is willing to pay for so at least for indoor I'll be losing the pins. Heck in PA pins is more competitive then freestyle . . . 

I'll still probably stay with pins for field. I love shooting my Switchback for field and I was a regular animal slayer with it this year after shooting it for field all summer.


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## Po_Boy (Jun 3, 2006)

Alot more pin shooters than FS here. Sometimes there are more traditional guys than FS shooters. :mg:


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

LOL - You think you're lonely? Try being the only barebow recurve shooter on line with 15 FS compound shooters. (smiley face goes here)

Dave


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Dave T said:


> LOL - You think you're lonely? Try being the only barebow recurve shooter on line with 15 FS compound shooters. (smiley face goes here)
> 
> Dave


A good friend of mine...who I have shot with for 17+ years...shoots Bowhunter! Not BHFS...not BHFSL...straight *Bowhunter*.  And yes, he is quite lonely too. :wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Mr. October said:


> It's been pins all along for me. I finally found a deal on a target sight last night that my cheap butt is willing to pay for so at least for indoor I'll be losing the pins. Heck in PA pins is more competitive then freestyle . . .
> 
> I'll still probably stay with pins for field. I love shooting my Switchback for field and I was a regular animal slayer with it this year after shooting it for field all summer.


You're killing me Pete! I thought I could count on you to stay in the fraternity...:wink:


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## PSE ROGUE (Jan 19, 2008)

I Shoot pins
i also use my hunting bow for 3-D


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## Man-n-Pink (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm a pin shooter.
There is a hand full that I shoot with on a regular basis, everyone else in on the FS train.


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

Theres still a few of us here but more and more are going over to dark side:wink: I like my pins, I shoot about the same as with my free style equip.
John


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

mdbowhunter said:


> What's a few more imprints on my arse gonna hurt? :wink:
> 
> It was even worse at the HillBilly last year.  Having a pin sight...you definately felt like the red-headed step-child!!!


My hair wasn't red then... :nono: :chortle:

But.. thanks to the hillbilly shoot, I'm movin on up.... :chortle: :wink:  

(won a scope and lens in the Hinklemonster shoot...) :tongue:

If it'll make ya feel better, next shoot I'll bring my Martin... with pins... :wink:


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

I shoot my hunting rig. The only change is to lower the weight and go to heavier arrows to make the speed requirements.

Pin shooters are vastly out-numbered by FS'ers around here.


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## south-paaw (Jul 3, 2006)

```
Originally Posted by jarlicker  
Cause you are the Red headed step children


[QUOTE="mdbowhunter, post: 6120227, member: 1195"]:eek:[/QUOTE]
```

i got your back.. ! we'll give it a go at the hilbilly this summer; rumor has it , that BH is bringing a pin set up as well......:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

south-paaw said:


> ```
> Originally Posted by jarlicker
> Cause you are the Red headed step children
> ```
> ...


Yeah, he keeps saying that...but the force is strong in M4L...and abanding the scope for pins may be seen as a trip to the 'dark side'.  :wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Yeah, he keeps saying that...but the force is strong in M4L...and abanding the scope for pins may be seen as a trip to the 'dark side'.  :wink:


I will shoot pins one day just to hurt your feelings.....


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I will shoot pins one day just to hurt your feelings.....


Won't hurt my feelings Hornet. :wink: Besides, if they keep changing the rules in BHFS you never know what I might do...


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

mdbowhunter said:


> You're killing me Pete! I thought I could count on you to stay in the fraternity...:wink:


I'll probably stay pins for field . . but indoor . . . I've been shooting FS (Unlimited here in PA) even with my BHFS setup. I shoot much better not holding off. So I may as well get s "real" target sight and do it right.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

At our club you can count the FS's on one hand and have fingers left over


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Mr. October said:


> I'll probably stay pins for field . . but indoor . . . I've been shooting FS (Unlimited here in PA) even with my BHFS setup. I shoot much better not holding off. So I may as well get s "real" target sight and do it right.


:chortle: Now yer talkin Mr O... :thumb: :wink:



Spotshooter2 said:


> At our club you can count the FS's on one hand and have fingers left over


We have quite a few pinshooters actually.. I was shooting amongst em last week.. they were everywhere on our end of the line I tell ya.. camo and all... I'm thinkin I might have to bring my hunting rig down next week...I'll blend in better... :embara: :chortle: :wink:


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

*Changes*



mdbowhunter said:


> Won't hurt my feelings Hornet. :wink: Besides, if they keep changing the rules in BHFS you never know what I might do...


I received a copy of the agenda items for the upcoming meeting in vegas and a lot has to do with eliminating styles or condensing them. If you guys want to continue to shoot BHFS you may want to take an interest in the agenda item that wants to allow up to 7 pins. At the rate they are increasing allowable stuff for your style it would not surprise me that in the near future they would try to eliminate the BHFS division and make you guys shoot in the FS division. Just a thought to ponder. If you check out what was allowed in the early 90'S til now you will see what I mean. Looks to me that you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot (Finally hit something)


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

I want it to go back to a lot of the older regs, 125 grain minimum points, NO rear stabilizer BUT an STS type is allowed but it must be made to stop the string. Keep 5 fixed pins only . I still would like to keep my verifier lens since without it I would have to switch over to FS since I wouldnt be able to see my pins without one. No need for 7 pins . Heck I get confused sometimes with five pins and use the wrong pin, no need to add 40% more pins to confuse me even more:tongue:


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

Just starting out with field and I plan to shoot pins. Less chance of my arrows getting busted up in that crowded X ring. 

I bought a used scope a couple years ago for 3D and never could get used to it. I wasn't ready to get into the clarifier, verifier, magnifier thing. It was definitely easier to see the x, but I would have gone nuts (and broke) trying to make it all clear.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Rattleman said:


> I received a copy of the agenda items for the upcoming meeting in vegas and a lot has to do with eliminating styles or condensing them. If you guys want to continue to shoot BHFS you may want to take an interest in the agenda item that wants to allow up to 7 pins. At the rate they are increasing allowable stuff for your style it would not surprise me that in the near future they would try to eliminate the BHFS division and make you guys shoot in the FS division. Just a thought to ponder. If you check out what was allowed in the early 90'S til now you will see what I mean. Looks to me that you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot (Finally hit something)


Got a feeling you're right Ed. IMHO it will be down to the following in a few years: FSU, FSL and Barebow.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Rattleman said:


> I received a copy of the agenda items for the upcoming meeting in vegas and a lot has to do with eliminating styles or condensing them. If you guys want to continue to shoot BHFS you may want to take an interest in the agenda item that wants to allow up to 7 pins. At the rate they are increasing allowable stuff for your style it would not surprise me that in the near future they would try to eliminate the BHFS division and make you guys shoot in the FS division. Just a thought to ponder. If you check out what was allowed in the early 90'S til now you will see what I mean. Looks to me that you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot (Finally hit something)


I'm no longer an NFAA member (at least for now) so don't really have dog in this fight but I'd just as soon they do that anyway. If you are shooting flights what difference does it make what sight you use? I've seen pin shooters that can smoke half the scope shooters anyway . . and vice versa.


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## 2wyoming (Sep 5, 2007)

I shot pins the last 2 years, and I just recently this year switched to a scope, and adjustable sights...


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

> what difference does it make what sight you use?


Well, maybe it doesn't make a lot of difference shooting 20 yards indoors (though I maintain having optics does), it makes a big difference in Field/Hunter/Animal rounds outdoors.

On an outdoor field course, if I'm shooting 5 pins, no optics, limited stabilizer, etc., etc., why should I be made to compete with a freestyler that can put anything on his bow that he can afford? Why should an unsighted barebow recurve shooter have to compete with my having sights?

I just don't get what the big deal is with wanting to eliminate categories. You want to (re)grow the sport? Give more folks an opportunity to succeed.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

rudeman said:


> Well, maybe it doesn't make a lot of difference shooting 20 yards indoors (though I maintain having optics does), it makes a big difference in Field/Hunter/Animal rounds outdoors.
> 
> On an outdoor field course, if I'm shooting 5 pins, no optics, limited stabilizer, etc., etc., why should I be made to compete with a freestyler that can put anything on his bow that he can afford? Why should an unsighted barebow recurve shooter have to compete with my having sights?
> 
> I just don't get what the big deal is with wanting to eliminate categories. You want to (re)grow the sport? Give more folks an opportunity to succeed.


I like to shoot pins for field too. But "growing the sport" has NOTHING to do with how many categories there are to win trophies in. I can never understand why people want to win a trophy for a category where they are shooting against only a few other shooters. 

If flights are used . . then your scores place you in a flight regardless of what equipment you are using.

According to the NFAA website there were 28 categories of archers at outdoor nationals with 3 or less shooters in them last year. Seems a tad ridiculous.


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## Lien2 (Aug 4, 2005)

There are at least 2-3 times as many pin shooters up here than FS. I would imagine cuz most start out wanting to stay sharp for hunting, so they shoot with their hunting setup. Some go on to FS, most keep shooting pins.

Lien2


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Ok ok ... I can't stop myself any longer... :wink:

Where are the Pin Shooters???? 



Behind the 80 yarder... looking for their arrows...


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

*Flights system*

Sounds good on paper but what happens at the local levels. Most people that I know want to be able to succeed. I am afraid that they will see that the FSer's have the edge and switch. (We are Competitive in nature you know) After a while the BHFS will just go the way of the dodo bird. Oh and by the way we here in Maryland only get about 20-30 shooters on a good day. If you lump them all together some will get disheartened and leave. Feel that they will never have a chance. I know what many are thinking "who cares if I win I am only in it for the fun" My answer to that is Yea Right. If it was only for the fun then why do you travel so far to compete? Just as fun at the local range or in my back yard. Just my thoughts. Ed


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

JAVI said:


> Ok ok ... I can't stop myself any longer... :wink:
> 
> Where are the Pin Shooters????
> 
> ...


Ha Ha very funny:tongue:


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## south-paaw (Jul 3, 2006)

JAVI said:


> Ok ok ... I can't stop myself any longer... :wink:
> 
> Where are the Pin Shooters????
> 
> ...


not any more whilest using your suggetsed setup !! :tongue:


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

*a new guy's perspective*

I love to shoot, to practice. I can shoot out to 65 yards in my backyard but I don't get to hang out with more experienced archers and pick their brains. The other benefit to club shooting is the different terrain. My yard is a great place to set up my pins, but it’s pretty flat. As far as the variety of classes, I prefer to leave it as is. I compete against myself and the average scores of others using the same type equipment. So I would not want to see my results (BHFS) lumped in with people using moveable 6 power scopes. I guess it would be a little discouraging. At this point, I have absolutely no desire or drive to win a trophy; it’s all about becoming a better archer.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

ODE1891 said it well. There are thousands of us in the NFAA. I think that only a relatively small percentage are really legitimately after trophies. Most of us just compete against ourselves and our peers and like to see how we fare against those in our same category (equipment, age-level, whatever).

I just don't see the problem with the categories the way they are now. Why are people in a given category trying to impose their will on those in other categories just because there are fewer members? Who cares unless you, yourself, are in that lower-membership category?

If you elect to participate in a category that has many participants, why are you knocking those who elect to shoot in other categories? Not everyone thinks that shooting the latest compound bow with 6x scopes and bazillion dollar sights and 3-foot stabilizers is their idea of archery, just as many don't consider a barebow, no-sight, no rest, finger-shooting recurve as theirs. To each his and her own.

Keep the categories the way they are, pick the one you trully *want *to shoot in, go out and do your best and don't worry about some other category having less than three shooters, because, really, why should you even care?


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

As far as I know there is no move to eliminate the equipment division presently called Bow Hunter Freestyle; change the name... yes...... eliminate... no. 

You guys are taking care of that on your own. And before you get your panties in a wad I've shot BHFS and I've shot Bare-bow re-curve along with a couple of other equipment divisions during my lifetime. Every time you add another piece of equipment to your bow so that it is closer to the equipment the Free-Style division uses like back weights, 7 pin sights, movable sight bars, and (lord help us) now some even want to use magnification in their sight to go with the ring style pin the rules allow. Y'all are cutting your own throats. 

No one is gonna have to eliminate the division, the participants are simply morphing into free-stylers on their own... 

What's next.... 30" front stabilizers? After all someone probably hunts with one on their bow...:wink:


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

rudeman said:


> ODE1891 said it well. There are thousands of us in the NFAA. I think that only a relatively small percentage are really legitimately after trophies. Most of us just compete against ourselves and our peers and like to see how we fare against those in our same category (equipment, age-level, whatever).
> 
> I just don't see the problem with the categories the way they are now. Why are people in a given category trying to impose their will on those in other categories just because there are fewer members? Who cares unless you, yourself, are in that lower-membership category?
> 
> ...


Do you honestly believe there NEEDS to be 89 divisions or sub classes in competitive archery? And 89 National Champions each year?


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JAVI said:


> Do you honestly believe there NEEDS to be 89 divisions or sub classes in competitive archery? And 89 National Champions each year?


Exactly...I don't understand why everyone has such a hard time understanding that in field and indoors we all shoot the same targets...and same distances...

So if you shoot a 285 indoors it still beats a 284 no matter what the other persons gear is....same goes for field....a 500 is a 500 PERIOD. Yes it is easier for "Mark" to shoot a 500 with FS gear then it is for "Tim" to do it with Barebow gear....but it is still a 500.

There is no need to have 89 champions.....


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

> Do you honestly believe there NEEDS to be 89 divisions or sub classes in competitive archery? And 89 National Champions each year?


Since you asked . . . 

Not sure where 89 comes from. If that includes flight "winners" then I don't consider them "champions" but that's a whole other discussion.

Regardless, what categories should we get rid of? The pro freestyle limited doesn't draw much - let's get rid of them. That gets rid of 2. The cubs don't get much - let's just wipe them all out (along with the future of the NFAA.) That's gets rid of 8 more. The Master Female categories don't get much, let's just get rid of them and only have males. That eliminated 3. None of the youth (YA, Youth, Cub) barebow and recurve/longbows get much competition so let's just kill off the future of recurve/barebow now so we can eventually get rid of it entirely and rid ourselves of the last connection we have to pre-compound days. That would get rid of 12 more. That gets rid of 25. And what have we gained? We've alienated master women, killed the future of the sport and eliminated any hope of maintaining the traditional roots of archery. We should all be proud.

So do we NEED all those champions? Probably not. But it seems to me that eliminating some (any) of them runs the risk of doing far more harm than good.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

rudeman said:


> Since you asked . . .
> 
> Not sure where 89 comes from. If that includes flight "winners" then I don't consider them "champions" but that's a whole other discussion.
> 
> ...


I'll go along with eliminating the Pro Divisions of the NFAA suits me... we'll shoot with the rest of you...

If you'll agree to a shoot what you bring compound competition with one Male National Champion and one Female National Champion in each age group. One recurve Male National Champion and one recurve Female National Champion in each age group.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JAVI said:


> I'll go along with eliminating the Pro Divisions of the NFAA suits me... we'll shoot with the rest of you...
> 
> If you'll agree to a shoot what you bring compound competition with one Male National Champion and one Female National Champion in each age group. One recurve Male National Champion and one recurve Female National Champion in each age group.


Yep...that is what it should be...the object is to put it in the middle...if you think you are more accurate with pins then shoot them....


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

I watched a fellow last night at our Club (New River Wildlife/Bowhunters) shoot a 300 with 22 X's with pins. How would he fair against some of the other Pin shooters?


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

3dbowmaster said:


> I watched a fellow last night at our Club (New River Wildlife/Bowhunters) shoot a 300 with 22 X's with pins. How would he fair against some of the other Pin shooters?


34X's below the current Senior Male Bow Hunter Freestyle National Champion's average...:wink: But still a good score...


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

*again from a new guy*

If I ever did get competitive, I would not shoot in a competitive shoot if I was grouped with people having serious equipment advantages. Sort of like bringing a knife to a gun fight. The notion that on the whole, a 5-pin person could shoot with FS unlimited sounds goofy to me. I think it'd be discouraging to most folks.

I have no idea how many award categories exist, but I'd like to know that all the people in one award group have the same level gear. I chose to shoot with pins for the challenge and I'm a hunter at heart. Plus I'm too cheap to invest in a new sight/scope combo. 

Bare bow should not compete against olympic recurves, recurves should not compete with compounds, release should not compete against fingers, and pins should not compete against sliding scopes. However that would be set up, it seems reasonable to me.


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

Ode1891 said:


> If I ever did get competitive, I would not shoot in a competitive shoot if I was grouped with people having serious equipment advantages. Sort of like bringing a knife to a gun fight. The notion that on the whole, a 5-pin person could shoot with FS unlimited sounds goofy to me. I think it'd be discouraging to most folks.
> 
> I have no idea how many award categories exist, but I'd like to know that all the people in one award group have the same level gear. I chose to shoot with pins for the challenge and I'm a hunter at heart. Plus I'm too cheap to invest in a new sight/scope combo.
> 
> Bare bow should not compete against olympic recurves, recurves should not compete with compounds, release should not compete against fingers, and pins should not compete against sliding scopes. However that would be set up, it seems reasonable to me.



I only shot indoor 3 times this year and my average is 295 and 35 x's.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Ode1891 said:


> If I ever did get competitive, I would not shoot in a competitive shoot if I was grouped with people having serious equipment advantages. Sort of like bringing a knife to a gun fight. The notion that on the whole, a 5-pin person could shoot with FS unlimited sounds goofy to me. I think it'd be discouraging to most folks.
> 
> I have no idea how many award categories exist, but I'd like to know that all the people in one award group have the same level gear. I chose to shoot with pins for the challenge and I'm a hunter at heart. Plus I'm too cheap to invest in a new sight/scope combo.
> 
> Bare bow should not compete against olympic recurves, recurves should not compete with compounds, release should not compete against fingers, and pins should not compete against sliding scopes. However that would be set up, it seems reasonable to me.


I agree, as far as separating classes for scoring, but....... I can tell you from personal experience, at least in my case, that shooting with the SOY in one of my first field tourneys was an eye opening experience.. .I was shakin like a leaf beforehand, but in reality, those that I shot with gave me a lot of help, coached me thru the things I asked about or didn't fully understand, and most assuredly helped my game, even tho it was my first one. Don't prevent yourself from shooting alongside someone who is at a higher level of proficiency than you are... you're doing yourself an injustice... :wink: 

I welcome the opportunity to shoot with the best.. regardless of my level.. it can only help me to become better, and most assuredly can't hurt.. :wink:

I do agree with the competition classes being segregated though, so at least you have a chance of evaluating your personal performance against a class of archers with similar setups.. :thumb:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Ode1891 said:


> I only shot indoor 3 times this year and my average is 295 and 35 x's.


That is good.. I have only shot once, (missed week one and three due to travel conflicts) and shot a 297 28X.. but.. it was my first spot shoot, and while I was shooting my scoped bow, it's got a new lens setup that I ain't quite used to yet... :chortle: :frusty: :wink: Was thinkin maybe I'd be better takin my hunting bow next week... :lol: :noidea: :wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

IGluIt4U said:


> I do agree with the competition classes being segregated though, so at least you have a chance of evaluating your personal performance against a class of archers with similar setups.. :thumb:



But why does it have to be the exact same equipment.....I know people that shoot pins better then they do FS gear....others that shoot fingers better then a release.....

You only need to compare yourself to yourself....the first time a BHFS shooter pops a 520 is no different from teh first time that a FS shooter does it......


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> But why does it have to be the exact same equipment.....I know people that shoot pins better then they do FS gear....others that shoot fingers better then a release.....
> 
> You only need to compare yourself to yourself....the first time a BHFS shooter pops a 520 is no different from teh first time that a FS shooter does it......


Very true BH, but.. I think, as you saw Ode mention, that the mere thought of a noob standing toe to toe with an experienced 550+ FS'r, is a bit overwhelming to many and would keep them from even entering a competition... it is more a conception that FS'rs are better than BH'rs, but... it is a concept that many believe... and yes, for the most part, the top shooters are primarily FS, but there are many pinshooters out there that can keep up, arrow for arrow. I think it helps mostly to recruit new archers into the sport, even tho, after all is said and done, many of the pinshooters graduate to FS... it's a logical progression. :wink:

Heck.. I think of the others that I shot with in my couple of field competitions last season, they were all shooting at least 550's... :mg: I was nowhere near that caliber, but I'm not afraid to step into something a bit over my head.. I actually welcome the challenge... not sure all would feel that way... :noidea:

Oh, and for the record, I was shooting pins amongst scopers at my first shoot... :thumb:


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

*interesting dialogue*

_the first time a BHFS shooter pops a 520 is no different from teh first time that a FS shooter does it......_

I agree that both would be happy, I guess 520 is good confused. In my case, I believe I should be shooting a 300 on a regular basis at indoor as a BHFS based on my experience and amount of shooting. With pins, I do not think the number of X's would ever be the same as an expectation. 

Similar with Field. As a pin shooter, I'd be really happy shooting a 500 with anything, but for me, it'd be a lot harder using just 5 pins...not the same at all. I'm not complaining or whining, I just believe these classes, the major 5 or 6 should remain. But it is a bit silly to have a champion at a regional shoot and only 3 or 4 in the class--if that ever happens. 

It's all good. I might humble myself and shoot at a 'real' 300 this Sunday at Mayberry. It'll be my first for real shoot, not weeknight league.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Ode1891 said:


> But it is a bit silly to have a champion at a regional shoot and only 3 or 4 in the class--if that ever happens.


State, regional and National every year in more than one equipment class...:wink:

and nothing against you or anyone else for that matter... but as far as I know no one is currently winning a National Championship with their actual hunting rig unchanged from yesterdays hunt... either. So while you might compete and have a blast using the rig you climbed down from the tree stand with yesterday... it most likely ain't gonna take you to the podium at Nationals... That's what is silly about the class.... Not the idea of shooting your hunting rig in competition... heck I support that... but the rigs I see in the class at the big events in no way resemble that persons hunting rig as they use it for a actual hunt.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

IGluIt4U said:


> Very true BH, but.. I think, as you saw Ode mention, that the mere thought of a noob standing toe to toe with an experienced 550+ FS'r, is a bit overwhelming to many and would keep them from even entering a competition... it is more a conception that FS'rs are better than BH'rs, but... it is a concept that many believe... and yes, for the most part, the top shooters are primarily FS, but there are many pinshooters out there that can keep up, arrow for arrow. I think it helps mostly to recruit new archers into the sport, even tho, after all is said and done, many of the pinshooters graduate to FS... it's a logical progression. :wink:
> 
> Heck.. I think of the others that I shot with in my couple of field competitions last season, they were all shooting at least 550's... :mg: I was nowhere near that caliber, but I'm not afraid to step into something a bit over my head.. I actually welcome the challenge... not sure all would feel that way... :noidea:
> 
> Oh, and for the record, I was shooting pins amongst scopers at my first shoot... :thumb:


I understand that....but if they are scared or intimdated to tow the line with the 550+ FS shooter....they are gonna be intimidated to toe the line with that 540+ BHFS shooter. :wink: Heck they are gonna be intimidated by the 520 shooter....

I don't agree with having the 500 classes as most of you know...but that doesn't mean that I think they should do away with the AA, A, B, C class rankins.....

If you are a 520 shooter then you would be peer grouped....if you go to a state, regional or national event that is how you are grouped now anyway. :wink:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> I understand that....but if they are scared or intimdated to tow the line with the 550+ FS shooter....they are gonna be intimidated to toe the line with that 540+ BHFS shooter. :wink: Heck they are gonna be intimidated by the 520 shooter....
> 
> I don't agree with having the 500 classes as most of you know...but that doesn't mean that I think they should do away with the AA, A, B, C class rankins.....
> 
> If you are a 520 shooter then you would be peer grouped....if you go to a state, regional or national event that is how you are grouped now anyway. :wink:


So.. yer saying just get over it and shoot? :noidea:

I AGREE!!! :thumb: :wink: :zip:


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

_but the rigs I see in the class at the big events in no way resemble that persons hunting rig as they use it for a actual hunt._

Oh, the only thing I do different is use 5 pins rather than 2 , I changed my peep from 1/4" to 1/8", and I also have an 11 inch doinker that I'd never take up a tree. I could hunt with it as set up, but not in low light conditions.

I don't care what stuff people use that I shoot alongside. I was commenting about competing


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

JAVI said:


> but the rigs I see in the class at the big events in no way resemble that persons hunting rig as they use it for a actual hunt.


Probably true.. I'm not a big eventer yet.. but.. my pin bow is my hunting bow.. I hadn't even picked up my target bow since October before last week's league shoot, and if ya see me shooting my pin bow, it will be exactly as I shoot it to hunt, except for the lack of sharpness on the pointy end of the arrows... :wink: Heck.. I even shot my camo shafts at the hilbilly shoot last year.... man did I learn not to do that again...  :embara: :wink:

Once hunting season begins, my hunting rig is my bow.. period.. the target bow goes in it's case til about now.. since our season is about to wind down, it's time to wax the shiny bow again...But, I have a hog hunt coming up in a month or so, so I'll likely shoot my hunting rig til then, except for spots.. I'm bound and determined to get that shiny bow shooting as well as I can... :lol: :wink:


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

JAVI said:


> 34X's below the current Senior Male Bow Hunter Freestyle National Champion's average...:wink: But still a good score...


I'm assumming you mean 5-Spot????

This fellas was a 300 22 x"s on a Vegas round...:mg: 
Seems pretty dang good to me...:cocktail:

His 5-spot would more than likely average 58 or 59 x's


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

3dbowmaster said:


> I'm assumming you mean 5-Spot????
> 
> This fellas was a 300 22 x"s on a Vegas round...:mg:
> Seems pretty dang good to me...:cocktail:
> ...


Yes I was talking about 5 spot I don't know what Steve averages on a FITA/VEGAS face... If he's over 55 year of age then he should enter the indoor nationals and whip Steve's butt...

By the way... 898 56X won Vegas in BHFS Championship 2007... so with an average of 300 22X your buddy would have walked off with the cash and trophy... Sign him up.. :thumbs_up


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

JAVI said:


> Yes I was talking about 5 spot I don't know what Steve averages on a FITA/VEGAS face... If he's over 55 year of age then he should enter the indoor nationals and whip Steve's butt...
> 
> By the way... 898 56X won Vegas in BHFS Championship 2007... so with an average of 300 22X your buddy would have walked off with the cash and trophy... Sign him up.. :thumbs_up



Whats funny is that he told me he hadn't really shot indoors until a couple years ago.... (just field rounds outdoors) and the actual Pro Shooter thats in our club can't hold a candle to this guy......

I'm sure some of the northern Va guys know who he is... I think he used to be a member of NORVA or something like that..

oh yeah he's not old enough to be in the senior class


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

IGluIt4U said:


> Probably true.. I'm not a big eventer yet.. but.. my pin bow is my hunting bow.. I hadn't even picked up my target bow since October before last week's league shoot, and if ya see me shooting my pin bow, it will be exactly as I shoot it to hunt, except for the lack of sharpness on the pointy end of the arrows... :wink: Heck.. I even shot my camo shafts at the hilbilly shoot last year.... man did I learn not to do that again...  :embara: :wink:
> 
> Once hunting season begins, my hunting rig is my bow.. period.. the target bow goes in it's case til about now.. since our season is about to wind down, it's time to wax the shiny bow again...But, I have a hog hunt coming up in a month or so, so I'll likely shoot my hunting rig til then, except for spots.. I'm bound and determined to get that shiny bow shooting as well as I can... :lol: :wink:





Ode189 said:


> Oh, the only thing I do different is use 5 pins rather than 2 , I changed my peep from 1/4" to 1/8", and I also have an 11 inch doinker that I'd never take up a tree. I could hunt with it as set up, but not in low light conditions.
> 
> I don't care what stuff people use that I shoot alongside. I was commenting about competing


Here are examples right here of fairly minor changes someone climbing out of a tree and walking into a shoot are competing against in BHFS now. And these are VERY minor. Most folks shooting "bowhunter" classes have given themselves every advantage within the class so that the "average bowhunter" is going to be just as intimidated shooting against them as a freestyler. Fact is . . . the vast majority of hunters never set foot in a competition and probably never will regardless. I've given up on trying to satisfy all the criteria I hear guys setting forth as to why they don't shoot competition (be it indoor, field, 3d). Fact is, they just don't want to which is fine.


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

I am going back to pins this year. I really saw no improvement in my scores or enjoyment when I was shooting FS.

As an experiment this year I am going to be shooting my hunting bow minus the quiver...just to see how well I can do.


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

JAVI said:


> Yes I was talking about 5 spot I don't know what Steve averages on a FITA/VEGAS face... If he's over 55 year of age then he should enter the indoor nationals and whip Steve's butt...
> 
> By the way... 898 56X won Vegas in BHFS Championship 2007... so with an average of 300 22X your buddy would have walked off with the cash and trophy... Sign him up.. :thumbs_up


Gotta do it 3 days in a row in the most pressure packed environment out there! Think you are nervous the first day, toe the line on the first bale the last day:wink:

John


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

*Eliminate??*

After reading all this stuff I must admit, I feel eliminating any style would be detrimential to the sport. If you lump everyone into one style then the only ones getting any attention would be the winners. I know when I was shooting well in the FSL and shooting in the 530's I liked knowing that others saw this a a great effort. I worked very hard to get there. I also know that I (We) like to be acknowledged when we shoot well. If you lump everyone with the handicaps you will kill off that ambition. I am one who likes to be slapped on the back. I know you macho guys out there are saying what a dweeb this guy must be but I know how I feel as well as how others feel. If you use the handicap system, what happens to the Bowhunter who shoots 500? I can almost guarantee that know one will notice this accomplishment. Because a 500 with nothing but a 12 inch stabilizer and no sights sure seems far better then a 500 with all the bells and whistles. And I can almost guarantee to a man that each and every one of you likes to be praised for a great effort. If not why do we help others and ask nothing in return but kind words??


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