# Anyone ever think of scaling back?



## sl954 (Oct 7, 2005)

Yes, you can go back. I give you my permission.


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## bowhunterprime (Jan 28, 2009)

Hey man havin fun is what it's all about!! And I've heard everyone say that Hunter class is more challenging than Open class anyway. And I also think that fixed pin gap shooting is a lot of fun. So far I've been in Hunter class only but I'm gonna do some Open shootin this coming year. Even then though I'm still gonna enter Hunter class with my good ole huntin bow out and shoot my GT Expedition arrows and just have a good ole time!! -Chris


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

Why not ,only bad thing about shooting in the hunter class ,you have to shoot great to win .There are a lot of real good shooters in that class .Good luck have fun .


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

nccrutch said:


> I've been shooting 3D for a while, usually in the OPEN classes. I'm no PRO by any means, but usually shoot OK. But, i'm getting tired of the BT releases, micro-click slide bar, scope, clarifier, long stabs, side stabs, fat arrows, custom points, pin nocks, etc...
> 
> *Would it be OK for me to go back to a Hunter Class?* I mean i have more fun with my hunting bow and a 3-pin sight. Also, i'm always trying to get people into the sport, and it seems to help when your bow doesnt look like a science project. I just dont want to come off as a "sandbagger".



I'm tempted myelf.  I had more fun end of last year just shooting a hunting setup than my Open class rigs. I know exactly what you mean. MY hunting setups are lighter, too, and that's getting more and more important the older I get. I can't beat nobody in any class, so what difference does it make anyway ? 

I doubt I shoot any ASA this year. They are getting too far away and I've got some date conflicts, too. Maybe Augusta, but we'll see.


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## bowhunter153246 (Jul 17, 2009)

I shoot just about every weekend of 3-d season, and some weeks I have plenty of time to practice with my open class bow and some weeks I just do not. I try to make myself take my hunting bow if I have not had at least 5 hours of practice with my Conquest during the week. Something about my switchback, I can just pick it up after not shooting it for months and shoot great with it. I do not see any problem with changing classes at all. In fact most of the shoots I attend, you have to shoot a higher score in the hunter class to win than the open.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Scaling back? Why not a little of both?


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

I enjoy shooting hunter as much as open shoot what you want and have fun


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

That's what My son and I do a lot of times. We get burnt out on all the stuff you have to do for open classes and will pick up our hunting bows, go shoot a local event just for fun. We don't turn in a score so we don't knock anybody out of a win. 
Charlie


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## srcarlso (Mar 3, 2005)

*I Did*



nccrutch said:


> I've been shooting 3D for a while, usually in the OPEN classes. I'm no PRO by any means, but usually shoot OK. But, i'm getting tired of the BT releases, micro-click slide bar, scope, clarifier, long stabs, side stabs, fat arrows, custom points, pin nocks, etc...
> 
> *Would it be OK for me to go back to a Hunter Class?* I mean i have more fun with my hunting bow and a 3-pin sight. Also, i'm always trying to get people into the sport, and it seems to help when your bow doesnt look like a science project. I just dont want to come off as a "sandbagger".


I did the same thing...was shooting open but found it more fun in the hunter class.


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## blamm (Dec 5, 2009)

*Yes*

Archery is great the nice thing is, have a good time.
There are some who are piad to shoot and then you have us !!!!
WE JUST WANT TO SHOOT 

SHOOT WELL AND ENJOY


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## jjl8440 (Dec 9, 2009)

*yes,shoot the hunter class*

but the competition is fierce in hc.just look at the scores in the ibo worlds and ibo indoor worlds. the top 5 scores rarely drop a point. but locally, go for it and have fun.besides, all that fancy open acessories can be expensive.


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## Hardtimes (Mar 22, 2008)

I shoot 3-D for enjoyment. I use my High Country Speed Force set up for hunting open fix. I enjoy talking to other archerys. I like to win but when it comes to be a job I'll quit. Have fun life is to short.


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## Bhead (Sep 18, 2009)

geezer047 said:


> That's what My son and I do a lot of times. We get burnt out on all the stuff you have to do for open classes and will pick up our hunting bows, go shoot a local event just for fun. We don't turn in a score so we don't knock anybody out of a win.
> Charlie


Why wouldn't you turn in your score? If you follow the rules and shoot with legal equipment for the hunter class, and win, by golly you earned it! 

The fact that you usually shoot open doesn't give you any magical powers does it? Cause if it does. I'm going to by a long stab and scope tomorrow! :wink:

Ps. If it does, just send me a pm so we don't let the secret out :secret:


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## drockw (Sep 3, 2008)

I did it at the end of last season. Sold the target rugs and bought a few xforces and shot a hunter setup from the open stakes. 

It was fun and I literally pulled my best open score with a hunting setup xforce. That scale back now ha me shooting better than I ever have in my life. I really got to know my shot routine when the complexity of the open rig was gone. 

Keep it fun!!!


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Darryl, will ASA let you move back? That's the question. I have thought about it many times too. When I shot "Unlimited Class" in ASA back several yrs. ago I never won my way out of it(then it was a 50-yd.class). I wanted to try OpenC as I had never shot a scope(amatuer w/scope, right?)..They made me shoot OpenB. They told me that if I didn't win out of OpenB that I could go back to OpenC. I really didn't understand that, but oh well.
So, I guess I could go to Hunter or even OpenC..


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## damnyankee (Oct 4, 2002)

I say shoot what you want and have fun.

I shot HC last year in some select NON SANCTIONED shoots, had a great time, but got black balled for moving back.

As for the HC being more challenging than Open, that is in the eye of the beholder.


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## nccrutch (Feb 26, 2003)

You know, i'm not really thinking of "winning" or "ASA Rules" or any of that stuff just yet. All i know, is that i like shooting a hunting set-up better than my Open rig. I dont view it as a "step back" either. I feel the simplicity of the gear makes it even more of a challenge. Basically, i'd be going from a 45-yd Open Class using slide bar, scope & long stab, to a 40-yd class using 3 pins and a short stab.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

nccrutch said:


> You know, i'm not really thinking of "winning" or "ASA Rules" or any of that stuff just yet. All i know, is that i like shooting a hunting set-up better than my Open rig. I dont view it as a "step back" either. I feel the simplicity of the gear makes it even more of a challenge. Basically, i'd be going from a 45-yd Open Class using slide bar, scope & long stab, to a 40-yd class using 3 pins and a short stab.


Ok, I see what you are talking about. I enjoy shooting pins too! There is a guy that shoots here in GA. I cannot post his name w/out permission, but the guy shoots a regular Switchback and Spot Hogg hunting sight regular stabilizer and generally wins anything he shoots in. The guy can just flat out shoot!


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

its not scaling back its chaging equipment those fix pin guys can shoot


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## Duece Weaver (Jun 29, 2004)

*Pins*

Darrell, I wish we could build up the unlimited class again. That's where I had the most fun. Maybe we could bring Jimmy out of Retirement.


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## bowhunter_va_28 (Apr 28, 2003)

forgive my ignorance when it comes to the classes, but can't you shoot your hunting bow with pins and whatever release in the open class? No one could call you a sandbagger then. Not that I'm saying they would. It sounds like you have the experience to judge the yardage. Just get comfortable with your gaps. Just an opinion. You'll get the challenge you're looking for without the "science project" bow.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

*pins*

Pins is one of the coolest classes and great people, never shot open, but want to try it. i know it's harder because of the distance. Just want to try my luck.

Jim


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## Bird Dogg (Aug 18, 2009)

*nice thought*

I shoot MBO, in IBO. I was tempted to moving to MBR or AHC, wich I Compare to Nascar Restrictor plate racing, at the top of those classes the Equipment is so similar. and restrictions on vanes, and points, and what not, everything is almost identical except the shooter. IE. restrictor plate racing... I feel it is everybit, or even more competative, because you almost take the equipment out of the competition, and focus primarily on the shooter... In the open classes, it almost seems like who has the best, and most up to date equipment, and separates shooters a little bit.. im not saying that the people in those classes arent' good, because, I got my butt kicked, however, its No restrictions on stabs, sights, or equipment, so how deep are your pockets? 
My friends and I were eating at a place in Ellicotville for worlds, when a friend was talking to someone in pro. Apparently some of the pro's dropped down into MBO, and other classes where they felt they could win and not have to compete with chance, and Levi, Is that fair to other shooters, I dont' think so, but what do you do? are you dropping classes to win? or to prove yourself? I wouldnt' want to drop classes just to win a lessor class. that isnt' proving anything, thats "proving" your giving up.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

*classes*

Just cuz you want to scale down, and shoot a class with pins doesn't mean you are giving up or thinking your gonna win. If you look in each class they are very competitive no matter what class it is. It looks like the top 10-15% could win a class any given day. Stepping down? Maybe its stepping across.. :angry:

Maybe people just want to shoot and have fun, maybe the yardage is killing them and they might need to change classes to get their confident back. It definitely helped me, plus going to a back-tension helped the most.......


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

*I can tell you one thing....*

If you're gonna shoot ASA Hunter class, you'd better get real good at shooting 14's!


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## <COPE> (Jan 19, 2009)

Bigjim67 said:


> Just cuz you want to scale down, and shoot a class with pins doesn't mean you are giving up or thinking your gonna win. If you look in each class they are very competitive no matter what class it is. It looks like the top 10-15% could win a class any given day. Stepping down? Maybe its stepping across.. :angry:
> 
> Maybe people just want to shoot and have fun, maybe the yardage is killing them and they might need to change classes to get their confident back. It definitely helped me, plus going to a back-tension helped the most.......


Well said jim


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## crazymoose (May 17, 2005)

If your looking for a change,why don't you shoot traditional for a season and just have some fun.
No sights and cams to worry about.


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## Bird Dogg (Aug 18, 2009)

*misundestood*

did you read my post? I said that it could be just as hard or harder, because the equipment is so similar in HC, and AHC, that it more or less comes down to the shooter, I by no means said that it was easier, only for anyone in Pro, HENCE THE NAME (pro) to step down ONLY on the premise that they didnt' want to compete with others in their class to be in the money..., to ME that shounds like giving up. If you want to drop a class, have at it, I shoot MBO, and was thinking going to MBR, or AHC class myslelf.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

*classes*

My mis-understanding, Some say i should of moved up along time ago, but I new there were flaws in my shooting and I had to fix them before ever attempting moving up.


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## Bird Dogg (Aug 18, 2009)

*my misunderstanding*

I picked a hard class to start off in , I havent' shot in any of the other classes, I went straight to MBO.


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## peter rogers (Nov 1, 2008)

sure why not, if anyone has a problem with it tell them i said it was OK


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## nccrutch (Feb 26, 2003)

Well, i've shot a couple of rounds with the hunting set-up. I love the simplicity of everything, but it actually got quite boring for me. Maybe it's all the gizmos that keep you on your toes. I'll stick with Open B for now. I had a 3rd and a 9th in that class last year, so maybe i can go win one this time. Thanx for everyone's input.


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## wilkersonhunter (Dec 12, 2007)

go back to the hunter class. 38 up won the hunter novice class in london asa last year. you can look at the scores in the hunter novice class and see that there needs to be something done. thats why i am going to open c class this year. i shot 10 up and got 30th place. imo asa needs to do something different about all the people that needs to be in another class.


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## Bird Dogg (Aug 18, 2009)

*far*

Practice farther than you will shoot in whatever class you sign up for, and when you move in, it will seem easier. MBO is fifty yards, I frequently practice 55-60 yards, and when I shoot 50 seems easier... and then you compete, and the way they use terrain, seems farther than it is Worlds messed me up big time, cuase they had it on hilly terrain, nothing like I have around here....


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

One thing I would like to see the ASA do is drop the known distance in BN and Open C. The scores have went out of sight in those classes, 40 to 50 up. Even want even make the top 50. In BN they went to 280 fps and known, hey it ain't but 30 yds, you can shoot a 20 yd pin on a 30 yd target and still manage an 8 (done that). Its not that hard to judge 30 yds. Open C, 40 yds max but you can use all the open equip. When you get to this point you should know a little about judging yardages. They actually could do away with one of the open classes, maybe Open A. When and if you shoot your way out of Open C go to Open B shoot your way out then its time for Semi-pro. The open classes are getting pretty watered down. And if you don't want to shoot unknown distance there is the K45. Like I said the scores are getting outrageous and I think it was better a few years ago before the known distance. JUST MY OPINION and you know what they say about those:teeth:
Charlie


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

geezer047 said:


> One thing I would like to see the ASA do is drop the known distance in BN and Open C. The scores have went out of sight in those classes, 40 to 50 up. Even want even make the top 50. In BN they went to 280 fps and known, hey it ain't but 30 yds, you can shoot a 20 yd pin on a 30 yd target and still manage an 8 (done that). Its not that hard to judge 30 yds. Open C, 40 yds max but you can use all the open equip. When you get to this point you should know a little about judging yardages. They actually could do away with one of the open classes, maybe Open A. When and if you shoot your way out of Open C go to Open B shoot your way out then its time for Semi-pro. The open classes are getting pretty watered down. And if you don't want to shoot unknown distance there is the K45. Like I said the scores are getting outrageous and I think it was better a few years ago before the known distance. JUST MY OPINION and you know what they say about those:teeth:
> Charlie


You're on to something Geezer. I say at least make BN half and half. I think Open C is already half and half.
I quit BN and went to Super Senior because of the high scoring in BN. Those high scores have to be discouraging to a real novice just getting their toes wet in ASA.


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## wilkersonhunter (Dec 12, 2007)

i think that there should be a 1 yr limit to anyone who wants to shoot the bn class and after that then move up! and no crying about it either


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

I have to disagree with forcing someone out of BN or Open C after one year. Some guys ( again, myself included) are not comformable at longer yds, most will never be a contender in any class. If you go to forcing these people into classes that they are not corformable with they'll quit all together. I am a bowhunter first and a target archer second, 30 yds is about my limit. And with my age and phsyical condition thats about it. Long as I'm in the bottom 50 in the class nobody really complains.
Charlie


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

wilkersonhunter said:


> i think that there should be a 1 yr limit to anyone who wants to shoot the bn class and after that then move up! and no crying about it either


Personally I don't like being told what to shoot or how far. I live in the city and don't have the luxury of practicing out past 35 yards. So should I be penalized by ASA and made to 'move - up' because they think I should? I prefer to focus on shooting more accurately at distances I am more likely to hunt at. 
You know the thinking that *'all archers should shoot longer'* is hurting the sport of 3D. Whether you or anyone else here wants to admit it that *'push'* to get archers shooting longer distances drives people out of the sport. My take is that the organizations need to be super 'user friendly' to keep the sport growing. Let the adults be adults and make up their own mind as to when to advance.
In the past in our state the organization can and has moved guys up a week before state when they haven't won their way out of the class their in. *I view that as inappropriate and poor sportsmanship.* Let the shooter get his confidence then choose for himself to move up.
Once they started to hound me after I thoroughly explained my position more than once, I just said screw it and shot more IBO and NFAA tournaments until I was ready to step up.
So please explain to me what they gained by pushing me to move up. Nothing. They lost me and several other shooters as competitors for almost 2 years. I still won't shoot their stuff unless it is in my best interest, where in other venues I will sometimes make a choice to shoot it based on supporting a cause. ASA, no way. It is a comercial, capitalist organization that does not care about the shorter yardage shooter.:thumbs_do 
ASA is to controlling at too many different levels. All of my emails to them have been ignored. I have never been extended the common courtesy of a simple response from them at the national level. They have the most challenging scoring system, and I think the most fun. Yet they sabotage their own success by not being more focused on what the average bowhunter wants.:thumbs_do
Will I shoot ASA? Yeah when it is convenient for me. Hate to say it but they tarnished my view and many other shooters views as well.
As for shooting *down in class* to a hunter class- *please* explain to me how shooting a hunting rig is easier than shooting an open rig. I'm never gonna hunt with a 30 inch stabilizer. Are you?


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## Kill Shill (Sep 23, 2008)

Yeah , I always have a full blown target rig set up to play with, but I shoot 3D with Bowhunter class gear. I will not dial for deer ,whether theyre rubber or meat.


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

Mac, I'll agree and disagree with you. I don't think someone should be forced out of a class until they are ready. But you don't want someone hanging around in one of the lower classes and winning every week just for the sake of winning or getting a trophy. And you know some will do it unless they are made to move up. I think all and all ASA does one of the better jobs on moving the better shooters up. Once you win a certain amount then you have to move up. If you're an average shooter then you can stay in any class that you want. Now ASA still needs to work on certain things but you just can't please everybody. No matter what the rules are I'll still shoot (as long as possible) just to be there to watch my sons and my buddys. Not much of a shot but a hellva cheerleader.
Charlie


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## caskins269 (Jul 31, 2008)

Well maybe this will make up your mind. I have shot in the IBO HC for the last 3 years. My first tourny was at worlds Anderson Indiana.(scored 391) Had a great time and met some really nice and cool people. Then I shot at Ellicotville N.Y. worlds in 2008.(scored 374) I decided to change my game and go to the IBO national shoots at Indiana and Ohio last year. At Indiana, I shot a 407 and at Nelsonville, OH I shot 409. But the worlds kicked my butt again last year. I finished with a 392. 
I shoot with some buddies of mine who shoot in the mbo. When I get around them, my competition level goes up a little. I then feel at times that I should be in another class. They keep telling me to shoot whatever makes me comfortable and that it really doesn't matter which class you shoot in, that you still have to make the shot. Just in the hunter class, you have to get the X'S to compete. 
If this makes any sense to you then ok. I think I really confussed myself again. LOL


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

geezer047 said:


> Mac, I'll agree and disagree with you. I don't think someone should be forced out of a class until they are ready. But you don't want someone hanging around in one of the lower classes and winning every week just for the sake of winning or getting a trophy. And you know some will do it unless they are made to move up. I think all and all ASA does one of the better jobs on moving the better shooters up. Once you win a certain amount then you have to move up. If you're an average shooter then you can stay in any class that you want. Now ASA still needs to work on certain things but you just can't please everybody. No matter what the rules are I'll still shoot (as long as possible) just to be there to watch my sons and my buddys. Not much of a shot but a hellva cheerleader.
> Charlie


There are rules that dictate when to move up. I think that those are ok - to a degree. The rules that allow a 'subjective' call to be made that supercede the rules that define either earnings or placement as detrerminers for moving up I feel are unnecessary and inappropriate. If the goal of these shooting organizations is to prepare shooters to be better hunters and shots, then who are they to decide if I am ready to move up. They can't possibly know my psyche. And besides - why shouldn't someone be able to stay in a division and win consistantly? The pros do it. Look at any of the big names.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

caskins269 said:


> Well maybe this will make up your mind. I have shot in the IBO HC for the last 3 years. My first tourny was at worlds Anderson Indiana.(scored 391) Had a great time and met some really nice and cool people. Then I shot at Ellicotville N.Y. worlds in 2008.(scored 374) I decided to change my game and go to the IBO national shoots at Indiana and Ohio last year. At Indiana, I shot a 407 and at Nelsonville, OH I shot 409. But the worlds kicked my butt again last year. I finished with a 392.
> I shoot with some buddies of mine who shoot in the mbo. When I get around them, my competition level goes up a little. I then feel at times that I should be in another class. They keep telling me to shoot whatever makes me comfortable and that it really doesn't matter which class you shoot in, that you still have to make the shot. Just in the hunter class, you have to get the X'S to compete.
> If this makes any sense to you then ok. I think I really confussed myself again. LOL


It makes perfect sense to me! Ask Dan Makley what he thinks about it. He is a first class guy that places well at the worlds and nationals, and he shoots as good as many of the pros do. I agree with him in that the organizations need to demonstrate respect for the shorter distance shooters choices to shoot there. Try hitting all 11's in the IBO. Then try for all 14's, or 12's in ASA. Shooting 120 up on a 30 target course is tough at any level. 
And I wish people that read these posts would ask themselves why more archers don't shoot 3D tournaments. Shorter shots might get the respect they deserve.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Mac of Michigan said:


> After all we are _*NOT*_ shooting in the Special Olympics!


What do the Special Olympics have to do with the subject of this thread?


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

carlosii said:


> What do the Special Olympics have to do with the subject of this thread?


Based on the 'flow of the conversation' a lot! However your point is understood.

My use of the comparison is to make the point that we are *competing to win*. In Special Olympics the emphasis is more on getting special needs kids to participate first and then if all goes well, maybe compete. 

The attitude that shorter distance hunter class 3D shooting is in any way less important than longer distance 3D shooting and should be treated like an entry level event as opposed to accorded its' *due respect* is similar to the way Special Olympic athletes are viewed. Those athletes are, by and large not respected in the same way as 'regular ed.' athletes. And the same goes for short distance hunter class shooters. I resent this. It also smacks right at the very heart of why the OP raised the question in the first place. He felt the need to ask or he wouldn't have started this thread.

(BTW I saw a 16 year old kid named Darrel who was mentally impaired run a 4:26 mile in early March. The state would not let him race against 'normal' kids at regionals or state. He would have won them both. Those decisions disrespected him the same way I see HC shooters treated in archery.)


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## welder1 (Jan 25, 2008)

I think the unlimited hunter class may be the tougher shooting challenge. Around here(Western N.C. archery circuit), the unlimited hunter class has a max distance of 40 yds. with no magnification and a 12" stabilizer. The open class is 45 yds. max with magnification and any length stabilizer you want. You decide.
Rear movables are allowed in our hunter classes(beginner and unlimited) which makes it easier than pins provided you judge the yardage correctly.


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