# 400 + grain hunting arrow?!



## Trueball13 (Nov 18, 2010)

Is it nessessary to have a 400 grain or more hunting arrow? How many actually use the 6 grains per lb method for your arrow weight? I'm thinking about going back to a 370ish grain give or take hunting arrow but was also thinking about going to a 408 grain ( if I use the 6g per lb method). My setup is [email protected]" draw.


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## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

I much prefer my hunting arrows to weigh at least 400 grains minimum. 

The additional gains from more momentum far out weighs the few more fps speed increase. 

Now days with a 60# bow and all these large cut mech broadheads, a light arrow does not penetrate nearly as well as a heavier arrow. IMO a bow of at least 65# is best suited for large cut mech bh. 

Yes a lot of folks has killed big game with large cut mech bh and a 60# bow, but most of them were a good broadside shot. It's when a hard angle shot is presented or large bone is struck, a heavier arrow is superior. 

Ever wonder why we see so many big game critters running off with most of the arrow sticking out it's side on the hunting shows?

If you plan on using smaller cut fixed blade bh, 60# and an arrow of at least 400 grains is plenty, even with a shorter draw length. 

My .02

Skeet.


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## yotehunter243 (Aug 12, 2013)

I had fully planned on shooting a 406 grain GT Hunter out of my Elite a 331 fps which in my past experience(my Insanity CPX shot this same speed and weight) has blown thru any whitetail out to 72 yards with a Rage Extreme. But I shot a 460 grain Vap arrow thru my chronograph and it's running 317 fps. So for me the extra weight and only a loss of 14 fps is worth it. Both arrows have the same POI at 40 yards. My bow is more efficient with the heavier arrow. I'd suggest you try both arrow weights you have mentioned above. Which ever one you feel confident in take hunting


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## stromdidilly (Jan 8, 2014)

In the great state of Washington, you have no choice 6 gr/lb is the minimum


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## hunterhewi (Jun 12, 2010)

I run a 440 grain arrow on my 60lb bow and 535 on my 70lber


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## Trueball13 (Nov 18, 2010)

It's looking like I'm getting the 408 grains , I can use the others as kick around around for testing BHs . I use slick trick fixed blades, I was using rage but I switch back to a fixed blade this year for better penatration.


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## possum (Feb 3, 2004)

You want to be able to recover your game from a least desirable shot. 400 grain arrow is one way to make that happen. Other factors contribute of coarse. With an arrow of that weight you have more pros than cons.
With a slick trick you are way ahead on the recover scenario.


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## redcarpet (Mar 31, 2013)

6.5-6.7 grains per pound of draw weight is a good base to go off of, still get decent arrow trajectory and good penetration. Overall makes the bow more efficient.


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## themist (Jun 11, 2014)

I prefer heavier arrows for hunting,just makes sense to pack more punch.
Shot placement is vital though,Ive had plenty of pass thrus on whitetails with lighter arrows,but I had a doe 2 yrs ago,that
thankfully,I shot with a heavier arrow.
Hit a bit forward and caught the edge of the shoulder blade,the arrow smashed thru it,and lodged on the inside of the other shoulder blade.
I still think that had I been using my lighter arrows,I wouldve lost that doe.

End of the day,whatever makes the quickest most humane kill,is what we should opt for...nothing less.


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## stork64 (Sep 11, 2010)

I don't like to be under 450 gr for my hunting arrows. Lighter arrows have lower momentum and decelerate faster, and on longer shots would be more influenced by wind. And heavier arrows make a bow feel and sound better.


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

It is a moot point for me, as my preferred arrow shafts are Easton Axis that come out around 410 the way I make them up. Shooting 58# from my Prime Impact, they fly great and penetrate very well with a sharp fixed head such as a Magnus Stinger. At the end of last season I picked up some Shuttle-T's at a good price and will be carrying them in my quiver as well this year to see how they do. Arrow speed is honestly well down the list of my priorities for an effective hunting setup..................but then I don't shoot 70+ yards at game either.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

I prefer heavy. I shoot 500 gr arrows that come in at 18gr per inch. Speed is of no concern to me, even at longer distances.


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## Darkvador (Oct 15, 2013)

I learned that having an entry and exit hole plus an arrow to inspect is very important in recovering a deer. I have been shooting a 440gr arrow for a very long time. Even in the early 90's I could get my bows to spit that arrow at 265fps. I usually am happy now at 275+. I can't remember the last time I left an arrow in a deer and I am not talking little doe.


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## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

Trueball13 said:


> Is it nessessary to have a 400 grain or more hunting arrow? How many actually use the 6 grains per lb method for your arrow weight? I'm thinking about going back to a 370ish grain give or take hunting arrow but was also thinking about going to a 408 grain ( if I use the 6g per lb method). My setup is [email protected]" draw.


 I think a 408 grain arrow would be a good choice for your setup, you will still have plenty of speed and 408 grain is not a heavy arrow for your setup. I shoot [email protected]" and a 390 grain arrow, which is about 7gr. per lb. and they work great.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Trueball13 said:


> Is it nessessary to have a 400 grain or more hunting arrow? How many actually use the 6 grains per lb method for your arrow weight? I'm thinking about going back to a 370ish grain give or take hunting arrow but was also thinking about going to a 408 grain ( if I use the 6g per lb method). My setup is [email protected]" draw.


Mine are around 400 grains with a 100 grain tip. I dont worry too much about arrow weight I just make sure im shooting ibo, I used these arrows out of a 80lb Monster 6 and now using them out of a 72lb Helim. They fly great so no reason to replace them.


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## hollywood88 (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm happy with launching my 560 grain shafts at 268-270fps. Hits like a tank and I know its going to do its job in a worst case scenario


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## bull moose (Dec 22, 2010)

Heavy and slower is the new light and faster.

Momentum is finally starting to be understood.

Trajectory is cool ... but arc is cooler.

i do not lie !

"Focker out" !


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## SCFox (Dec 11, 2005)

I made the switch last year to heavier arrows. I went from a 400gr Axis to a 480gr VAP. Like it's been stated before, there are far too many benefits with a heavy arrow to ever go back. 

SCFox


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## Neumonic (Oct 14, 2013)

Yesterday I weighed my arrow with a 100 grain tip and it came in at 422 total weight, should I change to 125 grain tips?


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## hunting_4_life (Mar 19, 2007)

yall shooting them light arrows most of my arrows are @ 500 gr or more only because i shoot a long arrow....


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## jjack88 (Jun 26, 2014)

i hope my 330 easton blood lines wont be to light for hunting this year. I just bought them today so dont know how they will shoot


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## Elvis_Is_Dead (Nov 25, 2009)

Trueball13 said:


> It's looking like I'm getting the 408 grains , I can use the others as kick around around for testing BHs . I use slick trick fixed blades, I was using rage but I switch back to a fixed blade this year for better penatration.


Been using Slick tricks for several years. Switching to QAD Exodus this year. It has some serious penetration.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

I shoot 470 gr arrow out of my Omen Max at 70lbs 27" DL @ 295-296 FPS . Bow shoots super quiet and arrow has power at long ranges ,better in the wind too
worth the speed loss just in the sound of the bow going off...


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## BDHUNTR (May 24, 2003)

My 27" XX78 2314's with 125 Magnus Snuffers weigh in at 495 grains.


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

I had great penatration out of my 60# 29" insanity with a 26" easton epic 400 and a 100 grain swhacker. I was very impressed when I shot a buck in the shoulder at 40 yard, he went all of 50 yards and fell over dead. The most impressive part was I had entry and a exit in both shoulders. This year I will be shooting a 55# carbon overdrive. Not sure what I am going to shoot out of it, may be a 400 axis with a 100 grain swhacker.That should get the job done.


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## alloutsmith3 (Jul 6, 2009)

Just built some Gold Tip Hunter Expeditions for my new Energy 35 and they are coming in around 490grs. I haven't shot them through a chrono yet to see what they are pushing but at 29" draw and 64lbs draw weight they are plenty fast enough.


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## Trueball13 (Nov 18, 2010)

I think 400 grains is heavy but I'm used to shooting lighter arrows. I'm either going with the GT kinetic xt or the eastern axis


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## DeAdEye15 (Sep 28, 2013)

My Easton Axis Realtree .300's come in at 502 grains. My arrows have to be cut to at least 30 inches to be 1 to 2 inches in front of the rest so my FOC is my main worry at only 10%. I need 125 grain heads to get over 12% but have been holding off to see if Slick Trick is going to offer their new deep six head in 125 grain. Other wise I may be switching my inserts over to HIT.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

DeAdEye15 said:


> My Easton Axis Realtree .300's come in at 502 grains. My arrows have to be cut to at least 30 inches to be 1 to 2 inches in front of the rest so my FOC is my main worry at only 10%. I need 125 grain heads to get over 12% but have been holding off to see if Slick Trick is going to offer their new deep six head in 125 grain. Other wise I may be switching my inserts over to HIT.


I asked ST and they said not this year for 125, but who knows. Would be great...


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Tim Gillingham talks about the 5 things that affect arrow penetration on a game animal! 

1) Shot placement
2) Broadhead design
3) Arrow Flight
4) Arrow weight
5) Arrow Diameter


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## Treestandwolf (Feb 12, 2009)

Whitetails and like game animals, 400 grain at 60lbs for me, elk and moose, I'm at 520 and it does hit like a rocket.


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## BDHUNTR (May 24, 2003)

TheTracker said:


> Tim Gillingham talks about the 5 things that affect arrow penetration on a game animal!
> 
> 1) Shot placement
> 2) Broadhead design
> ...


The first three go without saying. I don't think anyone on AT is going to argue that shot placement, broadhead design or arrow flight will not affect penetration. Hit bone and penetration suffers. Using a large, mechanical broadhead will also impede penetration, as will an arrow that strikes off-center due to poor tuning.

It's after that where the arguments arise. Is lighter (therefore faster) better than heavy (slower), and do skinny shafts penetrate deeper in game than bigger diameter shafts? And you will hear and read "evidence" from both sides of the table telling you that any combination of those attributes are better than the others. But you never hear "my arrows fly like crap, never hit where I aim, and my broadheads are big, cheap and dull....but boy! Do I always get a pass-thru or what!" :chortle:


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

BDHUNTR said:


> The first three go without saying. I don't think anyone on AT is going to argue that shot placement, broadhead design or arrow flight will not affect penetration. Hit bone and penetration suffers. Using a large, mechanical broadhead will also impede penetration, as will an arrow that strikes off-center due to poor tuning.
> 
> It's after that where the arguments arise. Is lighter (therefore faster) better than heavy (slower), and do skinny shafts penetrate deeper in game than bigger diameter shafts? And you will hear and read "evidence" from both sides of the table telling you that any combination of those attributes are better than the others. But you never hear "my arrows fly like crap, never hit where I aim, and my broadheads are big, cheap and dull....but boy! Do I always get a pass-thru or what!" :chortle:


I think arrow weight should be based on bow poundage and broadhead choice more than anything.


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## screaminbulls1 (Feb 3, 2011)

I switched to a CX Pile driver PTX with a 125 gr.tip. It weighs 480 grains coming out of a 65# Carbon Matrix at 260 fps, 29" draw. It's super quiet and hits hard.


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## Trueball13 (Nov 18, 2010)

That video was good


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## Chadrap (Dec 2, 2013)

That guy don't know nothin.


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## Trueball13 (Nov 18, 2010)

Lol


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## RuntCX2 (Oct 8, 2012)

400 grain minimum, 450 max for me.


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## talon1961 (Mar 13, 2008)

I shoot 375-400 gr. @ 30/60. Penetration and dead animals have never been an issue for me. Shoot what tunes best for you and you can accurately and confidently put into the vitals and you'll be just fine. Shot placement trumps everything else.


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

I shoot a 490 grain arrow with my 60 # bow at 30". Very silent and very hard hitting. My fmj's shoot fricken bullet holes through paper and are deadly accurate. Put a deer within 50 yards and it's game over.


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## cleve (Apr 11, 2010)

i think another variable that needs to be mentioned is what type of animal are we shooting at. Are we hunting deer? elk? moose? 

this changes things in my opinion. i shoot one arrow setup for everything (dont hunt moose, hopefully one day in oregon). i stay above 425gr for everything from 3d to elk hunting. i used 440 gr arrow setup out of 65# guardian. this year i wanted more FOC so i built some bloodlines to 460 grs with 17% FOC. 

i think most bows shooting ibo of 315 and greater can easily take deer size critters with arrows 380 grs. i think the issue comes from shoulder hits where that added weight might have helped get that extra inch or two of penetration. now i believe as you step up to elk sized critters you need to bump your arrow weight up some. yes you can kill an elk with 380 gr arrows traveling at speeds above 300 fps. but why not be sure of the penetration and get arrows up in the 425 grs and above. your loosing very little in means of flight and most of the time it will quiet your bow down. i always think of it like this, you can kill a elk with a 243 rifle, but wouldn't you rather be over gunned carrying something like a 300 win mag. why not use the same thinking for bowhunting, you owe it to the critters your hunting.


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## followthrough (Jan 24, 2011)

441 grain arrow 323 fps happy middle ground for me.


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

I prefer 7gr per lb, momentum over speed. 475grs for me unless hunting big dangerous game.


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## Rhody Hunter (Jul 14, 2008)

I think this year I'm going to go heavier arrow. I have been shooting very light the past few years. Been getting pass thrus but feel I could use a little more push to make sure it gets all the way thru.


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## eclark53520 (Sep 11, 2012)

Pretty much any decent bow of recent manufacture is going to push arrows in the 425-475gr weight with speeds that will be more than acceptable for shooting out to 50 yards. I don't see the need for speed being greater than the need for momentum in the woods.

Plus, the bow is more efficient with heavier arrows, you will lose speed slower than you gain weight, it's not a linear equation so you literally get more energy out of the bow with a heavier arrow. Why not take advantage of that?


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## deadquiet (Jan 25, 2005)

So the Gold Tip guy goes right to an 800 grain arrow @ 220 FPS.....and totally dodges any real numbers on his side. All he said was his likes to keep his arrows above 280 and still shoot the heaviest he can.......thanks for your vagueness. 

This debate will continue to go on forever.....and contrary to what some people believe could care less what arrow people choose to shoot.....but I just hate when people take things to the extreme and/or try to remake physics. If you actually watch TV hunting shows and did in the past penetration is way down and that is blatantly obvious. Even though bow efficiency is up, broad head design is better than ever AND speeds are higher than ever as well. So what changed???? Arrow weight. So even though I don't have a Gold Tip shirt & Youtube video I can tell you arrow weight is still important IF you need more penetration. 

The problem I have is people are losing sight of what is heavy and what is light as they thrust for speed only. Just like the OP asking is a 400 grain arrow even necessary. So I guess now if you shoot 400 grains your shooting too much arrow weight......lol. What will it be in two years? 350? 300? 

So now because "some of us" believe that 7 or 8 grains per pound of draw weight is a good balance we are tossed into a group with 800 grain arrows at 220FPS........by AT's light tackle crowd.


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## zyxw (Feb 19, 2007)

I consider 400 grains to be the very minimum weight for hunting for me.


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## doulos (Apr 2, 2006)

Im now using heavier arrows and stiffer spines just so I can use a little heavier broad head if I desire and still be spined right and have a very good FOC. My arrows are around 435-460 depending on the head I'm using. I usually only shoot 60 lbs for hunting. i don't get hung up on trajectory when most shots I take are always under 35 yds and most are under 20!!. For the northeast woods I hunt Im more concerned with penetration, accurate arrow flight and a quiet bow.


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## Fortyneck (Oct 8, 2010)

First year I'll hunt with an arrow under 500gr.

I think I'm coming in around 465gr…

For my 42# longbow… :wink:


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## killemall1983 (Oct 14, 2007)

There is a point where it gets to be too heavy, if you have a short draw like me. At 26" draw, if you are trying to shoot a heavy arrow out of an average DW bow, you arnt getting much speed or penetration with a heavy arrow. 
I bought an 80lb insanity just for hunting elk. Only way for a short draw guy to get a heavy arrow going at a decent speed.


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## mez (Feb 22, 2010)

Define too heavy. Check out some setups for dangerous game. Guides and outfitters will give you recommendations or required arrow weights. They won't even ask about your speed.


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## Neveragainwagun (Dec 21, 2012)

personally wouldnt consider a finished arrow weight under 450 grn. currently 480 with 185 on the tip


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

I shoot a 435 grain setup with my 70# 30" DL bow...prefer the heavier arrow vs. the speed...


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## dillio67 (Oct 1, 2004)

400g is better than 350g....450 is better than 400g, says Dr Ashby!
I shoot Maxima Blue selects with 125 slicks up front and a heavy insert weighing about [email protected] 72lbs...devastating!


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## txcookie (Feb 17, 2007)

On my PSE AXE 6 I run XX75 2117 WITH RAGE OR KILLZONES. Sounds odd I know but the 500plus grains from the arrow set up creates wicked penetration. Its DL is 28.5 and the poundage is 55ish. I have no idea how fast it shoots but I know what happens on deer out to 25 yards qtring away.


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## kdog23 (Jan 30, 2012)

I will buck the trend here. I have been shooting 412 grains with spitfires. This year I am running 354 fixed heads. I have tested them next to 430 grain arrows with fixed heads and the penetration on various targets is about the same. I may still use the heavier arrow for elk though.


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## Trueball13 (Nov 18, 2010)

Nice feedback guys, I'm going with e GoldTip Kinetic XT total weight around 412g with a 100 grain head. I'm excited to see them I. Action this year!


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

deadquiet said:


> So the Gold Tip guy goes right to an 800 grain arrow @ 220 FPS.....and totally dodges any real numbers on his side. All he said was his likes to keep his arrows above 280 and still shoot the heaviest he can.......thanks for your vagueness.
> 
> This debate will continue to go on forever.....and contrary to what some people believe could care less what arrow people choose to shoot.....but I just hate when people take things to the extreme and/or try to remake physics. If you actually watch TV hunting shows and did in the past penetration is way down and that is blatantly obvious. Even though bow efficiency is up, broad head design is better than ever AND speeds are higher than ever as well. So what changed???? Arrow weight. So even though I don't have a Gold Tip shirt & Youtube video I can tell you arrow weight is still important IF you need more penetration.
> 
> ...


Yep. Blows my mind how people think speed is the cure all for bowhunting. 260fps used to be blazing fast , now it's "slow" that cracks me up too. So my 535 grain arrows are traveling at 278fps, but that's crazy "heavy" and stupid "slow". Often people try to defy the laws of physics on here. It's not just bowhunters though, people at pro shops are first to brag how fast their rig is. They often push you towards the lightest arrows and I just shake my head...


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## dhaverstick (Jul 26, 2006)

According to Dr. Ed Ashby and his 30+ years of penetration studies, 650 grains is the minimum arrow weight he suggests to use. His work can be found here: http://www.tradbow.com/public/department56.cfm

I've been hunting with arrows in the 725-750 grain range for years and have killed a lot of game with them. I work to get close to my quarry so speed is not a factor.


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## pinwheeled (Apr 27, 2008)

I am with the true heavy crowd here. I shoot a 680 grain finished FMJ dangerous game arrow and Magnus or Bear broad head. I shoot this arrow for my 60lb and 70lb bows. I have killed animals out to 58 yards with my 60lbs bow with this setup. My 70lb pulse is shooting the arrow at 240 fps I don't know what my 60lb bow is shooting it at. I have a 28.5 inch draw. I personally like how my bows shoot and the performance I get from this set up. 
I have watched my son kill 5 whitetails with his 280 grain arrow with a rage 40KE shooting 35lbs so if you put whitetails in perfect broadside shots just about anything will kill one. 

Its up to you shoot what you like and are happy with. It does not matter what a bunch a guys and gals say on a here you have to be happy and confident in your set up. 

I am a believer in the quote I have in my signature


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## deadquiet (Jan 25, 2005)

sethro02 said:


> Yep. Blows my mind how people think speed is the cure all for bowhunting. 260fps used to be blazing fast , now it's "slow" that cracks me up too. So my 535 grain arrows are traveling at 278fps, but that's crazy "heavy" and stupid "slow". Often people try to defy the laws of physics on here. It's not just bowhunters though, people at pro shops are first to brag how fast their rig is. They often push you towards the lightest arrows and I just shake my head...


Yep, and you defiantly could go down to a lighter arrow and pick up even more speed AND still have crazy off the chart penetration......but you lose other things in the process.....IMHO if you can't take game with a bow shooting 250+ per second you are relying on your equipment, archery skills too much and your hunting tactics too little. Bowhunting will always be a close range sport.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

pinwheeled said:


> I am with the true heavy crowd here. I shoot a 680 grain finished FMJ dangerous game arrow and Magnus or Bear broad head. I shoot this arrow for my 60lb and 70lb bows. I have killed animals out to 58 yards with my 60lbs bow with this setup. My 70lb pulse is shooting the arrow at 240 fps I don't know what my 60lb bow is shooting it at. I have a 28.5 inch draw. I personally like how my bows shoot and the performance I get from this set up.
> I have watched my son kill 5 whitetails with his 280 grain arrow with a rage 40KE shooting 35lbs so if you put whitetails in perfect broadside shots just about anything will kill one.
> 
> I*ts up to you shoot what you like and are happy with. It does not matter what a bunch a guys and gals say on a here you have to be happy and confident in your set up.
> ...


Basically... but apparently some members think they should shoot what they shoot ,whether it be a light,medium or heavy arrow,fixed or mechanical broadhead... setup.I read and take everything on here with a grain a salt.I know what works for me and my different setups.I was lucky,my father has been doing this since i was a toddler.I learned from him and have evolved into being able to choose what works for me in a setup.Not everybody wants to shoot a heavy heavy arrow or a really light arrow.I also don't care what somebody else chooses to hunt with in a setup,it's there decision...it's not going to make me lose any sleep at night...Grizz


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## Sight Window (Jan 14, 2014)

I shoot 470 grain for everything.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

dhaverstick said:


> According to Dr. Ed Ashby and his 30+ years of penetration studies, 650 grains is the minimum arrow weight he suggests to use. His work can be found here: http://www.tradbow.com/public/department56.cfm
> 
> I've been hunting with arrows in the 725-750 grain range for years and have killed a lot of game with them. I work to get close to my quarry so speed is not a factor.


What do you consider close? 2 yards? 1 foot? Every one who posts in these threads are equal to or better than chuck adams at bowhunting according to all the BS I read in them.


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## _rj_ (May 23, 2014)

Just going off of the math, my arrows will weigh approximately 422gr. (with broad head). Next year I'll test different combinations. It's just too close to season for me to be making major adjustments. I can't imagine 422gr. @ 296fps not being able to kill an elk or bear.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

dhaverstick said:


> According to Dr. Ed Ashby and his 30+ years of penetration studies, 650 grains is the minimum arrow weight he suggests to use. His work can be found here: http://www.tradbow.com/public/department56.cfm
> 
> I've been hunting with arrows in the 725-750 grain range for years and have killed a lot of game with them. I work to get close to my quarry so speed is not a factor.


So according to dr tool a person with a 50lb draw and 27 inch draw should shoot a 650 grain arrow? You did say 650 grains is the minimum he suggested.


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. People that shoot a heavy arrow are just assuring that they make two holes for the target animal to bleed, especially on less than perfect shots. No one is saying that people who shoot a lighter arrow don't get pass throughs or slay deer. Just realize that one day you may pay for being in the light side or things.


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

*on the light side of things.


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## MOBIGBUCKS (Aug 12, 2006)

DeathF.above said:


> Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. People that shoot a heavy arrow are just assuring that they make two holes for the target animal to bleed, especially on less than perfect shots. No one is saying that people who shoot a lighter arrow don't get pass throughs or slay deer. Just realize that one day you may pay for being in the light side or things.


Very well put. Nobody is wrong here and there are plenty of options in choosing arrows.


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## nelly23 (Jan 9, 2005)

I don't get carried away with speed. I feel like I shoot best in the 280-290 range so I try and build an arrow that puts me in this range. I usually end up with an arrow in the 390-415 gr range. I feel it is a good mix of weight and speed. I hunt deer and turkey and this has always been plenty for me.....


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## Eric W (Jan 16, 2007)

Here's my set up:

58# bow

470 gr aluminum arrows (including the Magnus Stinger)


I have many reasons for this combination, and it's fine if none of those reasons are anything you would worry about.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

TheTracker said:


> So according to dr tool a person with a 50lb draw and 27 inch draw should shoot a 650 grain arrow? You did say 650 grains is the minimum he suggested.


You obviously didn't read it. 650 minimum for optimal penetration on dangerous game. Read the actual article instead of speculate.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

sethro02 said:


> You obviously didn't read it. 650 minimum for optimal penetration on dangerous game. Read the actual article instead of speculate.


Its what was said in the post, There was no speculation what so ever on my end. He cherry picked the post and put in what he deemed necessary to make his point and left out information.


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## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

TheTracker said:


> Its what was said in the post, There was no speculation what so ever on my end. He cherry picked the post and put in what you deemed necessary to make his point and left out information.


Hmmm


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

im shooting exactly 420 grains, with a 150 grain broadhead... my set up is roughly 53# draw weight, 29'' draw length and they are roughly shooting 265 on average and i love it...i will never shoot anything below 400 grains...nor shoot a stupid mechanical


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

TheTracker said:


> Its what was said in the post, There was no speculation what so ever on my end. He cherry picked the post and put in what he deemed necessary to make his point and left out information.


If their is a link provided usually people read it before commenting. So maybe read it first. Dr "tool" knows more about arrow lethality than AT'ers


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## Mallardbreath (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm shooting the 60# bows in my signature with arrows/broadhead combos right around 400 grains and have passed through every deer I've shot with these arrows. Broadheads have been 100 and 125 grain Steelheads.


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

sethro02 said:


> If their is a link provided usually people read it before commenting. So maybe read it first. Dr "tool" knows more about arrow lethality than AT'ers


hahaha good post


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## buglecrazy (Jan 15, 2010)

I dont hunt deer much but my elk setup this year is 415 grains including my 100 gr slick trick.


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## killemall1983 (Oct 14, 2007)

700 grains is insane and absurd. You dont need that for any north american animal. If i had to use that weight of arrow, i wouldnt be able to shoot futher than 30 yards with my short draw. Out west, shots are usually between 35 and 70 yards. I aint attempting to shoot a 600+ grain arrow that far.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

killemall1983 said:


> 700 grains is insane and absurd. You dont need that for any north american animal. If i had to use that weight of arrow, i wouldnt be able to shoot futher than 30 yards with my short draw. Out west, shots are usually between 35 and 70 yards. I aint attempting to shoot a 600+ grain arrow that far.


So it's really not insane and absurd then, it's just not a good setup for you.


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## Squirrel (Aug 6, 2008)

The last two seasons I shot a 387 grn arrow out of a 60# bow. This year I am shooting a 441 grain arrow out of a 70# bow. The 387 killed whitetails fine, but I do generally like over 400 so I got some different arrows this year after I got the heavier bow.


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

Tag


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

to light for me, I'm in there between 400-410. Tried it before, the broad heads I shot need a tad bit more weight.

I hardly ever shoot a point.


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## mathewshunter77 (Jun 16, 2010)

I've been hunting a long time but fairly new to really caring what my weighed. They just killed deer and that's all I cared about. But now I'm more conscious of it all. Any opinions on a 413 grain fmj out of a e32 at 70/30? From what I've learned it would be a good mix.


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## mathewshunter77 (Jun 16, 2010)

^arrow


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

mathewshunter77 said:


> I've been hunting a long time but fairly new to really caring what my weighed. They just killed deer and that's all I cared about. But now I'm more conscious of it all. Any opinions on a 413 grain fmj out of a e32 at 70/30? From what I've learned it would be a good mix.


That must be a .400? Why aren't you shooting .340's


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## mathewshunter77 (Jun 16, 2010)

They are 340's. They are 29 & 1/4 long.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

mathewshunter77 said:


> They are 340's. They are 29 & 1/4 long.


Your grain scale is off then. 11.4 gpi for fmj 340's, yours weighs 470's ish with 100 grain point


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## wipy (Oct 11, 2011)

hollywood88 said:


> I'm happy with launching my 560 grain shafts at 268-270fps. Hits like a tank and I know its going to do its job in a worst case scenario


what bow are you shooting to get the speed?? im shooting 525 at 72#29"draw at 262.
and there is no way i would ever consider shooting a arrow less then 475.


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## Darkvador (Oct 15, 2013)

mathewshunter77 said:


> I've been hunting a long time but fairly new to really caring what my weighed. They just killed deer and that's all I cared about. But now I'm more conscious of it all. Any opinions on a 413 grain fmj out of a e32 at 70/30? From what I've learned it would be a good mix.


It doesn't matter if your grain scale is off. If you are shooting a FMJ out of a 30" 70lb bow, good penetration should not be an issue.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

sethro02 said:


> If their is a link provided usually people read it before commenting. So maybe read it first. Dr "tool" knows more about arrow lethality than AT'ers


idiots on the net do, I rarely click on links provided. You'll learn that soon enough.

Your quite the fan boy. So your "knowledge" of said "tool" here as an at'er, how should that be taken?


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

wipy said:


> what bow are you shooting to get the speed?? im shooting 525 at 72#29"draw at 262.
> and there is no way i would ever consider shooting a arrow less then 475.


You either have done more than consider it, or it's a claim with little reason behind it since you haven't even considered it. I would think this post alone shows you have at least considered it.

With your specs I would be up there around the 475, but I would consider/try other things. Ya know, the cams are a determinant to the spine of the arrow needed not just the weight pulled. A hard cam needs more, softer can get by with less. Something to consider.


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## wipy (Oct 11, 2011)

nodog said:


> You either have done more than consider it, or it's a claim with little reason behind it since you haven't even considered it. I would think this post alone shows you have at least considered it.
> 
> With your specs I would be up there around the 475, but I would consider/try other things. Ya know, the cams are a determinant to the spine of the arrow needed not just the weight pulled. A hard cam needs more, softer can get by with less. Something to consider.


what are you even talking about?? i asked another guy what bow he was shooting to get that fps.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

Darkvador said:


> It doesn't matter if your grain scale is off. If you are shooting a FMJ out of a 30" 70lb bow, good penetration should not be an issue.


 For some reason it's all about how hard it is to dig a passed through arrow out of something with all these "hit like a tank" heavy or nothing threads. Just stuck in the dirt isn't enough, got a be buried up to the fletching.

"It kills deer, but..." 
But what? 

Somebody is always making a consented effort to sell something here.

Did ya see that thread about bigfoot a while back. Just saw on the news somebody was selling something to do with bigfoot. I thought wow, AT has that big an audience to try and market that kind of product here?


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

You people have a real problem with what's posted, read what you said I responded to. Apparently your the one who doesn't know what your talking about, it was quoted or doesn't the quote show up on your puter?


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## Darkvador (Oct 15, 2013)

OK nodog, you are confusing me also.


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## bucks/bulls (May 23, 2010)

DeathF.above said:


> Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. People that shoot a heavy arrow are just assuring that they make two holes for the target animal to bleed, especially on less than perfect shots. No one is saying that people who shoot a lighter arrow don't get pass throughs or slay deer. Just realize that one day you may pay for being in the light side or things.


May it be pointed out that there is never any gaurantee...you hit that shoulder and I don't care what weight your arrow is,it's still a gamble. Find the arrow combo that wields the best accuracy,speed and momentum for your setup if you want security..


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## Darkvador (Oct 15, 2013)

∆∆ amen ∆∆


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

bucks/bulls said:


> May it be pointed out that there is never any gaurantee...you hit that shoulder and I don't care what weight your arrow is,it's still a gamble. Find the arrow combo that wields the best accuracy,speed and momentum for your setup if you want security..


Yes I would have to agree with you.


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## jwstrother (Oct 9, 2007)

The past couple of years i have been shooting around 253 fps with 63lb & 28 DL using easton excel 400's, 100 grain montec and the old school nockturnals. By my calculations would weigh a total of 387 grains.

This year i have been researching a heavier setup and as of now this is what I am leaning towards.

Same draw weight and DL, Black Eagle Deep Impact 350's, Firenock Outsert, Clean Shot Lighted Nocks, and 100 Grain Montec total of 416 Grains

Not that I care that much how fast i shoot but what do you think my FPS will be with the new setup?

What are your thoughts on the new setup? any other suggestions?


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## BowhunterT100 (Feb 5, 2009)

I shoot around 410gr with 65lbs with a 28.5 draw with great results


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## constitution (Dec 5, 2012)

581 for me this year out of an elite hunter 28dl and 66 pounds draw weight


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## hunter97 (Jul 27, 2012)

440 out of a Mathews Z7 at 72 pounds. 280 fps


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## sinko (Dec 1, 2004)

455 gr fmj out of a 61# Z7. shot like 260.


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

500 grain 245fps


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## NGAsportsman (Jul 7, 2014)

Right now I am shooting a Carbon Element with a 27 inch draw. I am looking at getting a smaller diameter arrow like the torches or acc arrows. Currently I shoot a larger arrow where total weight with tip being 400 grains. Was thinking of going to a 330 or 400 grain arrow then shoot it with a 100 grain ram cat and a lighted nock. Was looking for some input or recommendations on the right size arrows. I am looking for pass through and a higher sped. I will be bow hunting clear cuts this year for whitetails and the potential for a longer shot.


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## ontargetvail (Jan 8, 2014)

I shoot a 31 inch 429 grain arrow (30 inch draw 70lb Full Throttle) at 337 fps and over 108 foot pounds of KE. According to the calculators I would only gain 1fp of KE at a 450 grain arrow yet I would loose velocity. I prefer the flatter trajectory here out west


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## hawkdriver55 (Sep 6, 2010)

420 grns zipping along at just under 300 fps. My arrows are to deer what a robber is to a liquor store on saturday night. They get in and out fast and leave a bloody mess.


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

hawkdriver55 said:


> 420 grns zipping along at just under 300 fps. My arrows are to deer what a robber is to a liquor store on saturday night. They get in and out fast and leave a bloody mess.


sounds like a perfect balance to me.


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## AmishArcher (Feb 6, 2008)

I think people overthink it on when hunting whitetails...

I've punched thru both scapulas on a whitetail with a 350ish grain arrow out of a 60# bow...

sure the heavy overcomes some of your shortcomings when it comes to a marginal shot, but if you take good shots, all the heavy arrow means is you're sticking an extra 2" deeper in the dirt on the other side...

I've had pass thrus with a sharp broadhead that entered near the ham and exited behind the ribcage (poor shot i know), and these were with the light arrows.

I understand heavier boned game, and i shoot fmj's now because I like them, but its not as mandatory as many are making it sound when you have to punch thru hide twice and 2 lungs... JMO


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## shaffer88 (Dec 3, 2007)

463 grains is the ticket for me or at least is what I'm using


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

Skeeter 58 said:


> I much prefer my hunting arrows to weigh at least 400 grains minimum.
> 
> The additional gains from more momentum far out weighs the few more fps speed increase.
> 
> ...


Skeet, I agree that for larger cut mechanicals you should shoot a heavier arrow, but one poundage is not the only thing to consider because not all bows are considered equal and each shooter is different obviously.


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

I shoot Aluminum & in all my years Bowhunting have always preferred a heavy arrow. Currently I use a 29" easton #2216 tipped with a 125gr 3 blade Ironhead Rocky Mountain. I have no idea of it's weight but sure it's well over 500 grns. I use a #1913 for tourney shooting & a 125 gr. head & it "does" weigh in at 395 grns. which I would have no problem shooting deer with. I am sighted in for 20-30-40 hunting but it's been 10 years since I shot an arrow over 30 hunting & it was 2 animals, 1 bull Elk at 35 yds & 1 Cow Buffalo at 42 yds. Both complete penetration with those "logs" & in the ground on the "other" side with a 60# Darton.


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## Trueball13 (Nov 18, 2010)

Some nice feedback here! Awesome views on heavy arrows. I got GT kinetic xts , 412 grains I clouding a 100 grain head. I Should be getting around 300 fps out of my DNA. Excited to see how it goes.


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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

I only hunt deer so I don't need 500 + grains to get full penetration. Now in the old days we shot 500+ grains and 70#. About 5 .years ago I was using a 325 grain arrow at 60#. The last few years I have been using 360 / 400 grains at 60#. This year I will be around 400 grains 58# and 29" with a 2" cut swhacker. Guys think we need heavy # bows and heavy arrows to get the job done. Its all about your set up just think what the women have to hunt with and they get the job done.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Absolutely. Lol for hunting a light arrow is just counter productive. Your light arrow will just get to the deer faster and most likely be sticking out the bucks side. 400 is even a bit light. I go 430-460. That's my sweet spot for good speed and great penetration.


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## QuietMan (Mar 25, 2009)

Not sure if it has been mentioned or not not...but...a heavier arrow is also going to be less affected by the wind...Comes back to the momentum factor again...The lightest arrow I shoot is 385 but most of the time they are about 407...


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## murphy31 (Jun 2, 2012)

I shoot a 410 gr arrow 28 inch draw 55lbs. 260 fps, ke 61.5. Then with my other bow a 377 gr arrow same 28 in, 55lbs. 271 fps, 61.4 ke, so as you can see the ke is almost the same, but with the with lighter arrow i get 11 more fps.


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## Hooper_c4 (Jun 27, 2017)

hunterhewi said:


> I run a 440 grain arrow on my 60lb bow and 535 on my 70lber


When you say 440 and 535 grain arrow, that's including the weight of your broadgeads yes or No? 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Trueball13 (Nov 18, 2010)

Most likely yes that includes bh weight


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## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

Ive been blowing thru deer or at least getting two holes with arrows in the 355-400 gr range for 20 years or so...I'm now at 375-380 grs depending on which bow/arrow I use... I see no need to go over 400grs for the way I hunt and Ive killed some awfully big bucks with that set up, 180 lbs - well over 200 lbs....... BTW, its been only Goldtips since they started making Carbons waaaaay back when ...


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## APAsuphan (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm shooting about 500 grain


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## Mr.Poindexter (May 29, 2016)

Wow, this is an old thread that came back to life. Maybe one of my arrows finally hit it - very long time of flight for me, but my lightest hunting arrow is 682 grains, using a 200 grain broadhead. I shoot that out of my Halon 32-6 at 70lbs. I hit a jackal with it at 36 yards and after going through his body on a quartering towards shot, it still had enough momentum to cut his back leg in half, nearly severing it. The bone was split in two pieces and the lower foot was hanging by the skin.

It hits pretty hard, but even still, I use some heavier gear for the bigger game overseas. My dangerous game bow uses 952 grain arrows for most animals and 1,252 grain arrows for Pachyderms. I actually used the 952 grain arrow from my Monster Safari at 80lb's and got a double pass through on an ostrich. The arrows passed through one leg, came out his chest, re-entered the other breast and came out the far side. The only time I have not had that pass through so far has been a shot on a wildebeest that was an extreme quartering away shot and it lodged so far into his spine they couldn't remove the BH until it was in the skinning shed and the head broke off from the threads.

The bows are very quiet when they shoot and I will never go back to a light arrow for hunting.


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## Hooper_c4 (Jun 27, 2017)

Ok. I'm confused as to the difference in weight and spine. Spine is stiffness right? And the 340 on the side of my arrows is the spine stiffness correct. Not the weight?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

yes


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

I shoot Light weight GT velocity 300 arrows. 100 gr tip and 30 gr of FACT weights. gives me a 426 gr arrow with very good FOC.


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## I like Meat (Feb 14, 2009)

Good set up ^^^


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## Daave (Jul 22, 2005)

xx75 2117 at 484 grains out of a 64 pound bow. i've shot heavy, i've shot light, i guess this is perfect for me.


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## meatman (Jun 2, 2017)

Subbing


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## tarsalgland (Jul 24, 2010)

I shot a 350gr DaTorch last year out of a 60lb bow with a 28" draw. Using old school rage 2-blades and had pass thrus every deer I shot. You don't need as much as you think.


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## CBB (Aug 6, 2011)

Been shooting light arrows for a long time. Changed it up to heavy arrows and my groups are better, my arrow flight is better, my bow is quieter with less vibration. Sticking with heavier.


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## meatman (Jun 2, 2017)

CBB said:


> Been shooting light arrows for a long time. Changed it up to heavy arrows and my groups are better, my arrow flight is better, my bow is quieter with less vibration. Sticking with heavier.


How heavy is heavy? I was hoping for 450 but will probably end up around 420 grains. What you shooting?


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## so.illhunter 88 (Jul 3, 2016)

Changed to the heavier Easton FMJ arrows this year. My total arrow weighs 512 grains. I switched from Easton Flat Lines. The trajectory was great and all with the Flat Lines but my bow is quieter and I feel that I have a stronger arrow with the FMJs. Shooting 67# @ 285-290 FPS.


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## realtown12 (Feb 19, 2009)

Last year I was shooting Piledrivers 350 spine @29" long, about 467-470 grains and was doing great. Now I'm shooting Easton Nemesis .300 spine @29" and 75 grains of brass up front. This arrow totals is 525 grains and going a whopping 248 fps as of last week's chrono session. 

I could pick up 40+ fps by going back down to a 425-430 gr arrow, but I dont think I need it. I'd have to go back to my single pin or reset the pins on my sight. I keep my sights at 20-30-40, I dont go further out because I dont plan on shooting further.


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## conquestador (Mar 28, 2010)

I'm at 470 gr. up from about 408 last season. 62 lbs, 29-1/2". Sighted in at 27 yards. The drop at 40 yards is less than a foot and at 50 is closer to a yard. I anticipate shots to be within 25 yards.


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## deadquiet (Jan 25, 2005)

This thread is so old that since it was started not only do people hunt with a 400 grain arrows it's now considered heavy too many...........lol. The gift of speed just keeps giving.


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## deadquiet (Jan 25, 2005)

conquestador said:


> I'm at 470 gr. up from about 408 last season. 62 lbs, 29-1/2". Sighted in at 27 yards. The drop at 40 yards is less than a foot and at 50 is closer to a yard. I anticipate shots to be within 25 yards.


You will see a difference in penetration as well. It's not a ton of weight difference but there is a sweet spot you start seeing at those heavier weights. IMO you really see gains above 450 (for most average setups) that starts getting hard to deny. 

Maybe that's why most people recommend over 6 GPP for hunting.......minimum....your at 7.5 and you will see a difference. Of course this will be followed by I always get passthroughs with my 375 grain arrows and rage hypo's and they stick 4 inches (it's always 4 inches for some reason????) in the dirt so what's the difference? 

If you have ever shot both you know better.


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## CBB (Aug 6, 2011)

meatman said:


> How heavy is heavy? I was hoping for 450 but will probably end up around 420 grains. What you shooting?


I'm shooting FMJ 5mm at 12gpi with 50gr inserts. I'm around 540gr total weight with 100gr field points


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## hunterjrg (Jan 15, 2011)

In my youth (30 years ago) I always chased speed with a lighter arrow. Easton superlights and those fluted Excalibur arrows. These days I shoot 515 grain FMJ and I'm completely happy. I do have the luxury of a longer draw and 70lb bow too.


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## lungpuncher1 (Jul 2, 2010)

448gr 65lb nitrum turbo, 29.5dl. 

BE rampage 300, 100gr head, 75gr brass insert, x nock. 

Should zip through whitetails.


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## maxx98 (May 10, 2010)

I am at 485 Grains shooting a 30" draw 74lb Hoyt Defiant. It is a Easton Axis. 

One thing I found interesting from listening to Dudleys podcasts is he has kept his bow shooting between 280-290 ft per second. From what I can take as the bows have become more efficient and faster he has shot heavier arrows. He said that this speed range he likes his pin gaps and he feels he gets better arrow flight. 

Do you think a lot of tuning issue people have had with fixed blade heads is due to having to fast of an arrow?


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## 4seasons69 (Sep 20, 2015)

I'm shooting a 481 grn 5mm fmj. One bow shoots at 284fps my other bow shoots it at 308fps. It's fantastic


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## Bigeclipse (Jul 7, 2013)

These threads and averyone's comments on archerytalk always make me laugh. I haven't been hunting long but it was not too long ago everyone was eyeballing speed so they were shooting 350grain arrows (sometimes less!) There were the SAME amount of passthroughs then as there are now on whitetails. If you are not shooting elk/Moose/Bear then why the heck is everyone being so nutty about heavy arrows. Makes ZERO sense, even with large mechanicals. For me, 400grains is plenty on deer and anything more is just robbing people of trajectory.


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## Bigeclipse (Jul 7, 2013)

There is one advantage to a heavy arrow which I forgot to mention above and that is it usually quiets a bow down better than a really light arrow, so that is one reason I do not go lighter than 400grains on my set-ups so far.


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## DrewFS (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm shooting 468gr GT Velocity XT's out of my 30.25"dl, 65# and 70# Defcon M7's. I can't remember the velocities I'm getting at the moment at that weight. I will probably bump that weight up to right round 490gr as I'll be adding Nockturnals to those arrows. FOC is right about 14% with 125gr VPA 3-blade fixed bh's. I look at it this way...there isn't much on the planet I wouldn't hunt with that arrow/bow setup. If I was going back to SA or to Alaska, I would just throw on a 150/175gr VPA and have even more FOC and mid 550gr arrow.


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## alex.vogel99 (Apr 1, 2014)

with my 53 lb bow I am around 420 gr. the bow I mostly shoot is at 70 lbs and 580 gr. the heavier arrow really does do a good job making the bow more quiet.


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## alex.vogel99 (Apr 1, 2014)

...also whats up with all the old threads? just saw a diff one from 2003!


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