# Super Ultra Skinny Arrows



## Charles A Smith (Dec 9, 2014)

I have seen some discussion here about skinny arrows. I am a serious lurker. I'm talking about the .166 inch ID ones. What the metric world calls 4.2mm. Now AliExpress is showing some 3.2mm ones, which would be .126 inches ID, .172 inches OD.

Does anybody have any experience with these yet? If not how about your opinion on what the expected performance difference would be. If it makes any difference in your opinion I'm interested in very soft arrows. Old and weak.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Charles - 

I know nothing about those arrows and don't really care too.

The biggest factor in arrow performance (speed) is weight. 
The biggest factors in consistency is well, arrow to arrow consistency (spine, then weight and a distant third straightness).
Of course diameter and tapering are factors, but for most of us,the difference isn't enough to matter.

I'm at a point, where the equipment is no longer the, or even a limiting factor. 

Viper1 out.


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

I'm with Viper.

But another thing to think about is the availability of components. Seems like you would be limited since nocks, points, pins would be specific for the 3.2mm shafts.



Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Chaoscreature (Jan 5, 2020)

Are you talking about the Skylon arrows?





Skylon Performa shafts (doz) | Alternative - Archery Shop > Arrows > Shafts


Entry level, 3.2mm small diameter (ID3.2) arrow shafts from the makers of the Avalon Tec One shafts. High strength 40-ton all-carbon shaft. Same as the Skylon P



www.alternativess.com


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

Charles, another weak old man here. FYI, the 3.2mm components are X10 size. I'm not sure what you are getting from AliExpress, but I have tried some "other" 3.2mm shafts. My dealer got a set of Black Eagle Revelation for me and found them to be good quality arrows. The only reason I wouldn't recommend these is that they are almost as expensive as X10s. I had a need for some lighter spine shafts to play with and Lancaster had (and still does) the Cross-X Plurima on sale, so I bought a doz. and was pleasantly surprised at the quality. If you want a skinny and light arrow, these are a great option.

Are you going to see a difference? I dunno, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the cheap ultra skinny arrows (purchased from a reputable dealer).

Paul


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## Brian N (Aug 14, 2014)

Not a comment on the arrows - but had a bad experience with AliExpress. Never again would I buy any product from them or their associated companies.


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## Cemuhlbeier (Nov 30, 2019)

Arachnid Archery is releasing a new .125 arrow. Hoping it's reasonably priced!


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## Timevoid (Aug 19, 2018)

Im not sure the point of using 3.2mm. Very expensive components vs .166" shafts. But the lightest and fastest shafts are not the thinnest.
I prefer having alot of arrows to shoot then barely affording a dozen.

You can improve speed :


shorter brace height
Heavier string (Angel archery strings japan)
Lighter arrow shafts
Shorter bow length (longer stroke)

Here are some fast shafts 30-40% lighter grains per inch then a regular X10 , 700 spine shaft.


Cross-X Fulmen7004.77 gpiØ 6,2 mmCarbon Tech MCKINNEY II7254.8 gpiØ 3.2 mm ?Skylon Edge7005.12 gpiØ 6,2 mmSkylon Frontier7005.12 gpiØ 6,2 mmCross-X Avatar7005.2 gpiØ 5,2 mmSkylon Ebony7005.24 gpiØ 5.2 mmSkylon Instec7005.24 gpiØ 5.2 mmCarbon express MAXIMA PRO RZ RECURVE6505.3 gpiØ 6,2 mm ?Goldtip Ultralight7005.4 gpiØ 6,2 mmVictory VAP 7005.7 gpiØ 4,2 mm


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Time -

Sorta...

You can improve speed :

shorter brace height (Yes, but with modern ILF bows, the actual gain will be minimal. And if you go too low, you may actually loose speed. Don't aske me how I know...)
Heavier string (Angel archery strings japan) (Ah no. A lighter string will increase speed, as more string weight has the same effect as more arrow weight.)
Lighter arrow shafts (Biggest difference.)
Shorter bow length (longer stroke) ((Sorta, the power stroke stays the same, but the load in the limbs increases. Again, while true by the laws of Physics, with ILF bows, we're talking a few fps, if that much.)
And technically increasing draw weight (heavier limbs) will work, but A. only up to a point, and B. the if the grains / pound stays the same, might end up being a wash. Now, tuning with the limb bolts full in or close to it will result if fairly cheap horsepower.

Viper1 out.


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

It's only a matter of time until someone slaps tip and feathers on one of these and claims revolutionary innovation 6mm Carbon Rod - Materials


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## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

Black46 said:


> Lancaster had (and still does) the Cross-X Plurima on sale, so I bought a doz. and was pleasantly surprised at the quality. If you want a skinny and light arrow, these are a great option.


I have some Cross-X Plurima Cubes in 750 spine that ended up being too weak for me. Happy to move them along if they fit the bill.


Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk


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## Steve_M. (Feb 26, 2018)

I think the brand on Aliexpress that sells these arrows is Accmos. From looking at all the arrows they offer and their GPI it appears that Accmos and Skylon are the same arrow just rebranded.

I don't own Skylon or Accmos arrows so I can't comment on their quality.


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## Nojiri (Nov 15, 2019)

Hey Charles,

What you're probably referring to are these Accmos 3.2mm ID carbon shafts. Here are the specs:










Here's what it will save you in weight. Let's say you shoot a 900 spine, since you say you're looking for soft shafts. A 4.2 ID shaft (i.e. Victory VAP) 900 spine at 5.3gr/inch at 76.3cm (30") will be 159gr (10.3g). These Accmos 3.2mm ID 900 spine shafts at the same length are 9.5g, so 0.8g (12.3 grains) lighter. Not all that significant.

I'm not sure if you've bought carbon arrows from Aliexpress before, but here's my experience. I've bought lots of 4.2 ID arrows (and all kinds of other stuff too) on Aliexpress and have had no problems with them whatsoever. They build up nicely, you can get an ideal FOC with the right components, they fly nice, and they're very tough. However, you need to make sure you get all the arrow components you need from your Aliexpress vendor (points and nock inserts; vanes don't matter). My shafts are labelled 4.2 ID, but when I tried to get different weight Easton points from my local archery shop that were marked 4.2 ID, they were a hair too big and wouldn't fit in my shafts. I ended up ordering points from my Aliexpress vendor and they fit perfectly. I just had to wait a couple of weeks for them to arrive.

Cheers!
Nojiri


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## tassie_devil (Aug 15, 2018)

There are a few shooters here starting to use the Skylon Precium/Paragon/Preminens 3.2mm ID arrows and they shoot well for both recurve and compound. As already said, they are compatible with X10 components as well as the skylon branded stuff.

They are light compared to X10s - in 700 spine the Skylons weight less than my VAPs and cost no more than VAPs or Carbon Ones (or the new replacement) so if I need new arrows I’d have no hesitation getting some as I think they’re superior to the usual suspects in 4.2mm carbon.

As Viper said weight is the main (arrow specific) parameter influencing speed. But drag is also a function of surface area so the skinnier arrows should have less drag too - whether it is significant enough to notice is another matter.


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## Navy-Chief (Jan 30, 2020)

I'm just starting to build a set of Skylon arrows, I went with the Brixxon 4.2mm instead of the smaller ones. So far they seem like good quality shafts for the money, will have to see how they hold up over time but I am happy with them so far.


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## Kiristiba (Jun 24, 2020)

Hi

Just stumbled upon this thread and thought I add my 2cts 
I purchased two sets of these cheap 0.009 straightness Accmos 3.2mm Carbon Arrows.
They run stiff, so I recommend to use the Skylon spine chart for their paragon arrows.
I did cut them from both ends and nock tuned them through paper. 
I removed 3 arrows from the dozen because I couldn't get a bullet hole.
The others I like a lot to be honest.
It's also the first time I used spin wings and they are from Aliexpress as well.
That's a group I shot with them at 50m with my Reckoning  :









Best regards


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

3.2 is a common diameter nowadays, as others have said. Shafts like the Skylon Paragon and Preminens are much cheaper than the X10 and good enough for top level competition.

3.2mm shafts tend to cut thru the wind a touch better than 3.2mm shafts, but they also cut though foam bosses too, so it had better not be heavily worn or these needles won’t be stopping!


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

I see a lot of comments on arrows like the Skylon Paragons that they are compatible with X10 points/pins. I don‘t think this is 100% true. There is a point in the Skylon range where the external diameter of the shaft exceeds the diameter of the x10 point and same for the x10 nock pin. So please look at the various measurements before trying this - if your arrow O.D exceeds your point and/or pin O.D your shafts will get trashed. I think the transition is at the 500 shaft but I would not be 100% sure which side of the 500 without have shafts in my hand. Same applies in reverse if you want to use Skylon Tungsten points in X10s - but I think it is less of an issue in that direction.

Regarding boss damage with small diameter arrows, I only find this true if you mix fatter and thinner arrows. If you mix I haven’t found too many boss materials that hold up well. If you mix aluminium and x10 size then you will shred the boss quickly - especially with compound.

Stretch


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## Charles A Smith (Dec 9, 2014)

I ordered some .001 ACCMOS arrows, points, pins, and 1.5 inch fletches. Took forever, or slightly longer, to come. In the middle I gave up in despair and ordered some .006 ACCMOS ones and some Sharrow points. They all got here. I rolled them across a glass table and couldn't tell the difference. Right now I have two bare shafts and four fletched made up for each type. The Decut 1.5" vanes are tiny and I gave up on them and went to 1.8" Spider Vanes. Mine are all 1000 spine. Weak old man as noted.

I can only shoot at 18 yards right now, we're coming out of lockdown, but I can't tell the difference between the .001 and the .006. The small diameter of the 3.2mm shafts makes fletching more difficult. I have been cutting the double sided tape down to about 60% width. I paid less than $1.00 apiece for the points.

And UKXBOW nailed it with the penetration. My home range is 10" foam and a couple of times, depending on which block I hit, the arrow has been in about 9". And I'm about 26# OTF.

The journey continues.

1 - 18 of 18 Posts


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## Metropolis (Oct 10, 2016)

UK_Stretch said:


> like the Skylon Paragons that they are compatible with X10 points/pins. I don‘t think this is 100% true.


The Easton tungsten points are the same size of the Paragon 600 O.D, maybe slightly larger,
so with the shape of the point it protects fibers correctly. 
About pins, under caliper the Skylon are 3.17mm while Easton X10 are 3.21mm,
the Easton doesn't want to enter my 600,
but as I use OUTNOCKS I don't care about pin's compatibility : )


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Metropolis said:


> The Easton tungsten points are the same size of the Paragon 600 O.D, maybe slightly larger,
> so with the shape of the point it protects fibers correctly.
> About pins, under caliper the Skylon are 3.17mm while Easton X10 are 3.21mm,
> the Easton doesn't want to enter my 600,
> but as I use OUTNOCKS I don't care about pin's compatibility : )


That is my point (excuse the pun) but a Skylon 400, for example, has an OD of 5.17 mm compared to the 600 which is 4.78mm. So the Easton point which I think is around 4.9mm in the SS and a bit smaller in the tungsten will fit into the shaft but will not cover the full diameter of the stiffer shafts. So the outer fibres will be directly exposed to boss impact.

So I think the compatibility runs out at 550 - maybe 500. That is why the different Paragon shafts have size specific points (in ranges) - one size does not fit all. All X10s are the same diameter at point and nock - up to the max cut length specified for the shaft size - one size does fit all.

Stretch


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

Indeed, the Skylon components are spine specific. I am happy using the Paragons with Skylon components. Mine spin true and group on top of each other if I do my part. Superb value for money. For me, they shoot like my Victory VAP Elite, only with a little less wind drift. My target club is completely open and next to the sea, so it is windy all the time. If only I could find a way of preventing the wind blowing ME around!



UK_Stretch said:


> That is my point (excuse the pun) but a Skylon 400, for example, has an OD of 5.17 mm compared to the 600 which is 4.78mm. So the Easton point which I think is around 4.9mm in the SS and a bit smaller in the tungsten will fit into the shaft but will not cover the full diameter of the stiffer shafts. So the outer fibres will be directly exposed to boss impact.
> 
> So I think the compatibility runs out at 550 - maybe 500. That is why the different Paragon shafts have size specific points (in ranges) - one size does not fit all. All X10s are the same diameter at point and nock - up to the max cut length specified for the shaft size - one size does fit all.
> 
> Stretch


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## strud (Jul 15, 2017)

ukxbow said:


> Indeed, the Skylon components are spine specific. I am happy using the Paragons with Skylon components. Mine spin true and group on top of each other if I do my part. Superb value for money. For me, they shoot like my Victory VAP Elite, only with a little less wind drift. My target club is completely open and next to the sea, so it is windy all the time. If only I could find a way of preventing the wind blowing ME around!


Hi UKXBOW

Very interested in your experience with these arrows relating to spine ie in your opinion did their spine align well with their rating? Does the Skylon spine chart work as expected for these 3.2mm arrows?
The reason I ask is I am beginning the selection process of Paragons and have had some issue with chart being 'a bit off' for their cheaper Radius arrows (stiffer than rating).

Strud


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

Hi I can’t say that they run stiff (I've not measured their static spine); however, I am shooting an arrow that would be in the weak side in most other spine charts and it shoots awesome for me. It’s bang on for the Skylon charts. I actually made the arrows for a slower bow, but they’re equally phenomenal on one with 5lb more draw weight. I think they probably do run a bit stiff, assuming you use the steel points which have very long shanks that will reduce the amount of shaft that can flex.



strud said:


> Hi UKXBOW
> 
> Very interested in your experience with these arrows relating to spine ie in your opinion did their spine align well with their rating? Does the Skylon spine chart work as expected for these 3.2mm arrows?
> The reason I ask is I am beginning the selection process of Paragons and have had some issue with chart being 'a bit off' for their cheaper Radius arrows (stiffer than rating).
> ...


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## Lorne (Jun 5, 2016)

Charles A Smith said:


> I have seen some discussion here about skinny arrows. I am a serious lurker. I'm talking about the .166 inch ID ones. What the metric world calls 4.2mm. Now AliExpress is showing some 3.2mm ones, which would be .126 inches ID, .172 inches OD.
> 
> Does anybody have any experience with these yet? If not how about your opinion on what the expected performance difference would be. If it makes any difference in your opinion I'm interested in very soft arrows. Old and weak.



I've bought Chinese shafts off AliExpress and the experience wasn't a positive one. The shafts were marked 600 spine but they shot as if they were tent poles. I mean zero flex what so ever. Add to that their weight (heavy to say the least), and they were non-starters.

I ended up cutting the shafts up and turning them into pens for the JOAD kids.

Shafts are one of those thing you can't go cheap on.

I am currently shooting Skylon Brixxon arrows and I'm very happy with them, even if they are a bit heavy.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Thanks for the education all. I've been out of the "paying close attention to arrows" game for a few years now. 

Gawd we need a 2nd (or 3rd) major player in the recurve target arrow business.


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

limbwalker said:


> Thanks for the education all. I've been out of the "paying close attention to arrows" game for a few years now.
> 
> Gawd we need a 2nd (or 3rd) major player in the recurve target arrow business.


Do you have any thoughts on McKinney IIs?


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## Charles A Smith (Dec 9, 2014)

Well... I got my ACCMOS 3.2mm arrows from AliExpress. Shipping to Canada was a bit slow, but it was in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic. The points are great, the pins are great and they fit my asymmetric nocks perfectly. I got 1000 spine, did I mention old and weak, and they shoot just fine. I don't have any contact issues so I believe that the spine is dead on what they say.


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## strud (Jul 15, 2017)

Another data point here. I now have my Skylon Paragon 600 spine shafts and components. They are same length as my Radius and are showing the same stiffness (happy with that).

I'm shooting just over 38# OTF and shafts are left long at this time which works out fine for me since these limbs are on minimum adjustment and I hope to work up to 42# over the coming months so I can trim them down as required.


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## DorB (Aug 23, 2020)

Charles A Smith said:


> I have seen some discussion here about skinny arrows. I am a serious lurker. I'm talking about the .166 inch ID ones. What the metric world calls 4.2mm. Now AliExpress is showing some 3.2mm ones, which would be .126 inches ID, .172 inches OD.
> 
> Does anybody have any experience with these yet? If not how about your opinion on what the expected performance difference would be. If it makes any difference in your opinion I'm interested in very soft arrows. Old and weak.


I've been shooting ACCMOS 3.2 0.001 for about a month now, 350 spine with 120g point, 60# 30" length.
great arrows. the pack grouping is consistent, and as far as I've rolled them on a straightness roller, all of them roll great with no visible wobble.
the only issue is they pass through the target at 50yards, the same target that hold 6.2/4.2ID arrows.


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

DorB said:


> I've been shooting ACCMOS 3.2 0.001 for about a month now, 350 spine with 120g point, 60# 30" length.
> great arrows. the pack grouping is consistent, and as far as I've rolled them on a straightness roller, all of them roll great with no visible wobble.
> the only issue is they pass through the target at 50yards, the same target that hold 6.2/4.4ID arrows.


Presumably this is a compound setup?


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## DorB (Aug 23, 2020)

Yes.


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## Khir (Sep 20, 2021)

Good discussion. After reading this thread I am decide to order the ACCMOS 3.2 0.001 600 spine by end on this month. Currently I am using x10.1 lost in the jungle 4 broke. Only 7 left. Since archery become my daily sports routine, I am not afford of buying another dozen of x10. Thanks


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## GiulianoCini (Jun 27, 2016)

you will be not disappointed, I am using them with outsert Beiter nocks and ACCMOS stainless steel point, as I am not a top-level shooter I enjoy the excellent ratio price vs performances.


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## Giannis_A (Feb 15, 2021)

My experience is not all that bad with this category of arrows.

I shoot a 40 Lb recurve and got me a set of Linkboy bountry hunter ID 3.6mm arrows in 650 spine some months back, mainly to experiment.
I cut them to 28" front and back (which stiffened the setup), worked the spine and fitted them with decut 1.5 spin wings and 120 gn X-10 tips.

Shooting them (and comparing them to my VAP V1's and a borrowed set of X10's) I noted the following:


For short distances they need bigger spin wings.
For long distance (70m) they were pretty nice with good groups.
The pin and plastic nock was a bit too much (16gn) as FOC was affected (I suspect with a plastic nock or grinded pin nock things might be better).
The arrows are of parallel design (not barrel as the X10's) and I did not need any serious adjustment other than repositioning the arrow rest to correct for the smaller diameter.
The arrows are lighter than the Easton X10's (306gn for the Linkboy vs 330gn for the X10's), but heavier than my VAP V1's (306gn for the Linkboy vs 290gn for the VAP's) .
The difference between +- 0.001 and +- 0.003 was not really noticeable.

Conclusions:
a. Performance vs price is pretty good.
b. Would really customise them further if I was to shoot them for competitions.


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