# Civil War



## Backlash

Absolutely insane.


----------



## erictski

Backlash said:


> Absolutely insane.


+1

But could you imagine this country in a civil war. i dont even want to think about it.

That said I did have a dream not too long ago about something much like a civil war in the US. Lets just say I woke up in a cold sweat looking for my wife...it was scary.

I hope I never have to go through what the people of other nations go through...


----------



## sawtoothscream

I don't think a civil war. But maybe a revolt against the government


----------



## wvbearman

Yea, a revolt against the government is possible. 

America is starting to wake up... 

Obama's approval ratings are 3rd quickest to reach sub 50% since WWII. 

What is far more likely to happen is that the far left libs will be voted out of office in 2010... and Obama/Pelosi etc...will fail in their conquest to acheive complete government control of our lives. 

If for some reason he and his radicals stay in office, it will be chaos.


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

Communist Russia onced predicted that the US would end being 3 seperate countries. East, West and the Heartland.


----------



## Jim C

Atlas needs to shrug. If that happens, the parasites will probably revolt. :wink:


----------



## wvbearman

a few years ago I would have called your comment crazy... but I guess now anything's possible.

One thing's for sure. We have been through trying times all throughout our nation's history. The next year or two... and how Americans respond, will again, be a defining moment in our history. It will get better, or it will get worse. 

I'm praying for better.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

I'm praying for better as well but preparing for the worst. Some people call a topic like this crazy but I honestly think most will see it for what it is, a honest discussion.


----------



## junker

AR_Headhunter said:


> I'm praying for better as well but preparing for the worst. Some people call a topic like this crazy but I honestly think most will see it for what it is, a honest discussion.


get your head out of your @ss. it's not that bad out here.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

junker said:


> get your head out of your @ss. it's not that bad out here.


Not yet but then again we are not even 1 year into this Nobama administration & people in my part of the US are not happy at all with his socialist agenda. Let him keep pushing his socialist agenda & we will see just how fast things can get that bad.


----------



## junker

AR_Headhunter said:


> Not yet but then again we are not even 1 year into this Nobama administration & people in my part of the US are not happy at all with his socialist agenda. Let him keep pushing his socialist agenda & we will see just how fast things can get that bad.


we'll see.

what part of arkansas do you live?

I used to live in greenville ms across the river from lake village, ar


----------



## AR_Headhunter

In the mountains. :wink:


----------



## junker

AR_Headhunter said:


> In the mountains. :wink:


gotcha. any hogs round there?


----------



## athomPT

I doubt it, but it will be a completely different atmoshere from the first one that's for sure!


----------



## starrbow

Civil war, SHTF, Economic meltdown, whatever, something is bound to happen. Yesterday I went to wallyWorld, I paid $11.00 a bag for there store brand #18lbs Dry Cat food, two weeks ago it was $9.10 there lg can of store brand wet cat food was $.75 a can, last month $.57 a can.

Everything else I got that day was priced much higher, Americans are starting to see there dollar shrink faster and faster, soon many who have never been hungry will be! Thats when things will change, and not for the better. My head is not buried in the sand, I do see whats about to happen, and it ain't pretty. There is a reason why in the last year many good people started panic buying Firearms,Ammo and survival equipment, they too see whats coming! "denial Is Bliss"


----------



## cptbrain

I hope not, but I hear alot of this talk, not just here.


----------



## black_ice_84

its like the old sayin, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.. and buddy, i am prepared


:uzi::brave::laser::croc::fencing::spy::chimpeep::set1_punch:


----------



## bartman3562

*Thoughts*

6 months before the election, I made this prediction. I have been stocking up as they say. I don't see a civil war, I see the ones in power feeding off those below. Once the lower group gets tired of supporting them the ladder will come down. Then you have two groups. Those that will try to take from the people who have and know how to survive, and those that know how to survive. If the takers win, humans will fade away, because once they have taken it all, how will they survive if they must do it all themselves?????? If the survivers can make it long enough, we will emerge again and sooner or later, we will be able to live off the land with what it has to offer. It's just going to be a long nasty road that a lot of people won't survive the trip. Everytime I look at my under 5 year old grandchildren, my heart crys for the life they have to look forward too.
Failure to plan, is a true plan for failure.


----------



## wicked1Joe

sawtoothscream said:


> I don't think a civil war. But maybe a revolt against the government



I agree!~


----------



## sits in trees

i don't think we Americans are ready for a real civil war, just because you have a bunch of old people acting out in town hall meetings around the country doesnt mean your ready to have your home burned, your wife and yea even your kids killed in horrible fashion, no food or fuel for long time periods? heck most Americans couldnt do without skipping breakfast or not going out to freindly's for ice cream for more than a few days.

yea it all sounds harsh but these ar the realities of a real civil war, and just because a bunch of people are sounding off whilst sitting in their living rooms, hostily tapping on their keyboards doesn't mean a thing:wink:


----------



## AR_Headhunter

No matter what happens, those of us who know how to live off the land are a leg up on the others. Those of us who live in very rural remote locations are also at an advantage. Most people would go crazy living in a extremely remote area but life is better when not crowded by civilization. JMO


----------



## Quijibo

I think were in for some major rioting the first time any official sanctions come against the current admin. The amount (and political ideology)of "Czars" BO is surrounding himself with is going to hit critical mass and something is going to break.


----------



## whitehunter2

OK civil war? whats it going to be,
Black vs White
North vs South again
Americans vs Immigrants
Jews vs Nazi

anyone dare say???

lets get allittle clear on this, WHO against WHO, if we are going to have a war we damn well have to pick sides RIGHT?

ohhh wait i forgot one, Left against Right, ...only problem how the hell we going to tell who from who??? iffin i'm goin out to kill people i would really like to be able to identify them first.

so when all you civil war buffs finally get it figured out let the rest of us Americans know:wink:


----------



## AR_Headhunter

whitehunter2 said:


> OK civil war? whats it going to be,
> Black vs White
> North vs South again
> Americans vs Immigrants
> Jews vs Nazi
> 
> anyone dare say???
> 
> lets get allittle clear on this, WHO against WHO, if we are going to have a war we damn well have to pick sides RIGHT?
> 
> ohhh wait i forgot one, Left against Right, ...only problem how the hell we going to tell who from who??? iffin i'm goin out to kill people i would really like to be able to identify them first.
> 
> so when all you civil war buffs finally get it figured out let the rest of us Americans know:wink:



I do not know the answer to your questions but what does strike me as funny is 60% of the people on here either think 1 is needed or will happen. Just food for thought. :wink:


----------



## georgiabuckdan

whitehunter2 said:


> OK civil war? whats it going to be,
> Black vs White
> North vs South again
> Americans vs Immigrants
> Jews vs Nazi
> 
> anyone dare say???
> 
> lets get allittle clear on this, WHO against WHO, if we are going to have a war we damn well have to pick sides RIGHT?
> 
> ohhh wait i forgot one, Left against Right, ...only problem how the hell we going to tell who from who??? iffin i'm goin out to kill people i would really like to be able to identify them first.
> 
> so when all you civil war buffs finally get it figured out let the rest of us Americans know:wink:


I understand your questions and am brave to answer! this country has come to far for a race war, and allot of us have blacks in our families and or good friends, I mean heck im a **** you wouldnt know it but I am 1st generation Cuban American. We are a melting pot of different nationalities! 

Now, As far as civil/ us and Fed govermnment/ ones who want to run the u.s. without any of our approval for anything and not interested in any of our best interest... Now you have something to talk about. 

North and south nothing there.

Left wing and right wing? how left wing can the government go. They dont care about us as individuals it would be a matter of them sending in the troops/ National guard or something like that.

heck, who knows maybe it will just be chaos, something simple! lets say fuell went up to $6.00 a gallon! I wouldnt be able to go to work and pay my mortgage completely so what would I do? Mind you I have 3 children and a american stafordshire thats like another kid! Wife works also but times have already gotten tight enough. People that were living good when economy took a turn are really starting to strugle wouldnt you agree?? And we dont go out to clubs or bars or anything like that! We are just normal average God fearing folks in my family and honestly if things get any tighter we wont be able to make it! You dont see anybodys wages going up do ya?


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

Well many ancient calanders end in 2012. Nostadomus predicted the end of the world will be a war unlike anything before. Believe what you want. Just get some popcorn and pass the ammunition.:happy1::uzi:


----------



## AR_Headhunter

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> Well many ancient calanders end in 2012. Nostadomus predicted the end of the world will be a war unlike anything before. Believe what you want. Just get some popcorn and pass the ammunition.:happy1::uzi:


Give me a triple order of ammunition & hold the popcorn.


----------



## Bayou Bowhunter

AR_Headhunter said:


> I'm praying for better as well but preparing for the worst.


Me too AR Hunter.


----------



## whitehunter2

i see a few mention a civil war or a revolution against the US GOVyou do realize unless you get the United States Armed Forces behind you in your civil war/revolution you and your intire family would more than likely die right or maybe once the shooting REALLY starts yawl would change your minds and run back into your houses and watch the news to see how that Revolution is going out there!!

see how silly this all sounds when you really look at it. yelling at your congressmen at the local elks hall is not a revolution.

we Americans are too fat and happy for a real Gov overthrow like some of you all are talking about, so until then we are just going to have to stick to the current way of doing things. Sorry.


----------



## Carpshooter

*I got only one thing to write !*

:sad: I wonder why we even had an election then , reminds me of my wife's relatives ,they were always sore losers cause they always wanted things their way .Always commentted about how bad others were ,when they didn't like to play by the rules as being fair wasn't fair to them .

:sad: Sad how some people are !:embara:


----------



## I'm Not Ted

Carpshooter, that was a great post!

As the song says, "What's so Civil about war anyway?"


----------



## I'm Not Ted

Oh, and why would you think we NEED a civil war? Not sure why that's a poll option. The country is already seperated enough, good hell, I can't go to school without hering Obama this, Obama that. Course, being in Utah is a big disadvantage. (GET ME OUTTA HERE!  )


----------



## chasemukluk

Wow...right wing...left wing...maybe that's the problem...I think it's time for a new political party...
A Civil War? Seriously? You must be a radical right wing to think like that...

I think this GREAT COUNTRY needs a political revolution...a political party that is truly for the people...I could care less if a person is Right wing or left wing...what I care about is first; what that person does day in and day out to make this "world" a better place. Second, what that person does day in and day out to be respectful to their country, family, religion, and everything else that is "good" in this world.

This poll does none of the above and neither would a Civil War...grow up...

Question: You can honestly tell me you would point a gun at someone, pull the trigger, and kill them because you disagree?!?!? I hope that answer is no...


----------



## I'm Not Ted

I don't think we'll get a political "revolution" or some great third party because then we'll just have three tribes. I think that we just need to tone it down. Conservatives are losing their minds right now. People voted him in for a reason, it's been 9 months, give him a shot. Hell, we had Bush for 8 years, I think that Liberals for the most part, behaved.


----------



## junker

civil wars are for people with rainbow tattoos and keds for hunting boots


----------



## AR_Headhunter

chasemukluk said:


> Wow...right wing...left wing...maybe that's the problem...I think it's time for a new political party...
> A Civil War? Seriously? You must be a radical right wing to think like that...


Maybe I am. Over 200 years ago there was also a group of "radical right wingers". They were called our founding fathers. Ever heard of them?


----------



## sits in trees

AR_Headhunter said:


> Maybe I am. Over 200 years ago there was also a group of "radical right wingers". They were called our founding fathers. Ever heard of them?


yes i have heard of them, but don't you think times were just a tad differant 200 years ago, i highly doubt the grannies and grandpaws that are going biserck in town hall meetings because they don't want government healthcare, (which is exactly what they have, and maybe we should just pull medicare out from under their walkers, ooops did i just say that:embara


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

I'm Not Ted said:


> Hell, we had Bush for 8 years, I think that Liberals for the most part, behaved.


Where have you been? You didn't see Pelosi and Reid calling Bush a "liar"? You didn't see all libs comparing him to Hilter? I'm standing up for everything Bush did, but a spade is a spade. Now Pelosi is crying foul. Litterally. Crying at a news conference because shes getting hammered now. When all the anti war protesters calling for war crimes against Bush. Holding signs of him in Hilter garb. The libs said they had a right to be heard. Now there are the Tea parties. And the libs are calling them mobs? Look at the Tea party in Washington. Police documents said there were no arrests from demenstrators. And their the mobs. The libs don't like being beat at their own game. And they don't believe that Bush was treated that bad. Shoes on the other foot now.ukey:


----------



## chasemukluk

AR_Headhunter said:


> Maybe I am. Over 200 years ago there was also a group of "radical right wingers". They were called our founding fathers. Ever heard of them?


Well if you think we should act the same way we did 200 years ago I think its time to have a change in your mindset. Our founding fathers did just that, they adjusted to the circumstances that were put in front of them...
A Cival War is not a solution as it does nothing for the good of the Country...


----------



## superbuckeye

I know, we could all be cowards and do nothing. That's the new American way... to let everyone else worry about how this country is on a fast track to nowhere. The greatest Country in the world is quickly spiralling downward. Who has the balls to tell the gov't it's time to work for us, not rule over us tyrannically? Those who say do nothing should keep their heads buried in the sand and thank those who stand up. I'm not saying we need a civil war, but we do need to do something to get us back on the right track, at least make govt work for us instead of against us!


----------



## I'm Not Ted

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> Where have you been? You didn't see Pelosi and Reid calling Bush a "liar"? You didn't see all libs comparing him to Hilter? I'm standing up for everything Bush did, but a spade is a spade. Now Pelosi is crying foul. Litterally. Crying at a news conference because shes getting hammered now. When all the anti war protesters calling for war crimes against Bush. Holding signs of him in Hilter garb. The libs said they had a right to be heard. Now there are the Tea parties. And the libs are calling them mobs? Look at the Tea party in Washington. Police documents said there were no arrests from demenstrators. And their the mobs. The libs don't like being beat at their own game. And they don't believe that Bush was treated that bad. Shoes on the other foot now.ukey:


And the Conservatives have been any better to Obama? Only 9 month's into his presidency?


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

I'm Not Ted said:


> And the Conservatives have been any better to Obama? Only 9 month's into his presidency?


No, just pointing out the double standard that is the democratic party. They can cry foul on race, sexism and on morals, but they never correct their own. Why is Charles Rangold still holding a chair? Answer that one. After weeks of Acorn's corruption, they have to be dragged into it because they can't ignore it anymore. It is killing the dems to renounce Acorn, the very organization the committed fraud to get Obama elected. Not, saying he wouldn't have won anyway, but fraud none the less.


----------



## Carpshooter

chasemukluk said:


> Well if you think we should act the same way we did 200 years ago I think its time to have a change in your mindset. Our founding fathers did just that, they adjusted to the circumstances that were put in front of them...
> A Cival War is not a solution as it does nothing for the good of the Country...


"Agree !":thumb:


----------



## brian3127

civil war no.

race war maybe think about it


----------



## Jamesj

Regardless of weather or not one is needed I don't think there are enough people left who have the stones to make one happen.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

Jamesj said:


> Regardless of weather or not one is needed I don't think there are enough people left who have the stones to make one happen.


You might be right there. There are many who got more stones online than in person.


----------



## FallVitals

I'm Not Ted said:


> And the Conservatives have been any better to Obama? Only 9 month's into his presidency?


No, but the differance is his policys. You know... on the road to socialism... I have a good buddy who voted for him, and now he regrets it. I could get into far more detail, but if you follow the news you know whats going on and where he is trying to take us. This is A LOT different then any other president, reguardless of the isle, and where they are taking the country. 



As for a civil war... no. If things got bad enough they would send in the troops to "silence" any group that would take up arms. For their to really be a civil war there will have to be some BIG BIG problems. And if we reach that point, id like to think youd see it coming from a mile away. 

Civil war, no. But there needs to be some kind of uprising to correct the course of government.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson


----------



## ohiobowhunter75

I know people that have been stalk pileing ammo for years. I'm talking about 55 gal drums full hidden under ground. They don't need to take our guns just the ammo. Alot of ammo can be bought now and the prices are on the rise. It's comming.


----------



## Death Blow

I don't think we need a war per se to solve the issues. We do need the independent States of this union to take responsibility for themselves and assert their sovereignty as recognized under the 10th amendment in the U.S Constitution. The states created the federal government and need to bring it to heal. The federal government has over reached for far to long with the States capitulations time and time again going back prior to the war of Northern aggression, i.e. the civil war. 

When the states succeeded from the union they had every right to under the U.S. Constitution being that the federal union is voluntary and I'll also quote the Declaration of Independence. 

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"


Lincoln and the Congress at the time showed aggression to the sovereign states when the had decided that the union no longer was serving the best interests of the States. The south did fire the first shot in the Carolinas it is my belief though that the war could have been avoided if Lincoln would have been more willing to acknowledge the rights of the states and tried to come to them with willing negotiations and not a closed fist. For which he was assassinated as a Tyrant. 

That all being said there two distinct political ideologies here in the land. 
That of the statist who believe the federal government is to be trusted to organize society as it sees fit, and the Libertarian view that is rising stating basically the ideas of the American revolution. That we are a free and independent people that understand that centralized Government is dangerous and should be only allowed to operate on a limited basis in order to insure the Liberty that we as a free society want.


----------



## clydesdale

*civil war*

i think liberals and conservatives should part ways .Agree to disagree and seperate that being said i hope the conservatives would get the west.I would like a civil seperation but if not im prepared to fight .Somethings got to give, but im not going to. socialism needs to stop it breeds parasites on society


----------



## badfaulkner

I'm Not Ted said:


> Hell, we had Bush for 8 years, I think that Liberals for the most part, behaved.



ROFLMAO. 

You were either in suspended animation or on a heroin nod during the entire Bush administration.


----------



## OneArmArrowSlinger

sits in trees said:


> yes i have heard of them, but don't you think times were just a tad differant 200 years ago, i highly doubt the grannies and grandpaws that are going biserck in town hall meetings because they don't want government healthcare, (which is exactly what they have, and maybe we should just pull medicare out from under their walkers, ooops did i just say that:embara


First off, I don't know if a civil war is eminent or needed, I hope its not but what we DO need is a political revolt, be it through the polls or bloodshed, that would reinstate leaders that believe in America and true democracy not socialism. You are right about 1 thing, 200 years ago it wasn't about health care but it was about the same principles that people are upset about now. 1)Taxation w/o representation; right now we are headed into an era of unprecedented taxing in our country and I can promise you that not a one of us feels our opinions are properly being represented and the tax increases continue, and they will continue to grow exponentially. 2) A gross misuse of the governments ability to control your every action; your a liar if you tell me this isn't going on. 3) The ability of the government to restrict and manipulate free trade & the banking system and the government controlled and owned businesses which creates a monopoly that benefits only the government; this time around its just been dressed up w/ a fancy name, "bailout", where they have stolen your and my dollars in order to purchase these companies that should have had no other choice but to fail. You think the gov't would just bail your or my business out of a jam that we created ourselves unless it was to solely benefit them?

There are many other parallels to now and 200+ years ago that would take days to discuss in an intelligent manner, such as the idea of the government being the weakest at the federal level & strongest at the state & county (where WE the PEOPLE have the best representation). It is time that we as a people stand up and shout at the top of our lungs, enough is enough! The government is here to serve US an not the other way around. We as citizens hold the power, politicians are our servants and its high time they start behaving as such and return to a system that is of the people, by the people and by God, for the people!


----------



## georgiabuckdan

PikeCoBoy4Life said:


> First off, I don't know if a civil war is eminent or needed, I hope its not but what we DO need is a political revolt, be it through the polls or bloodshed, that would reinstate leaders that believe in America and true democracy not socialism. You are right about 1 thing, 200 years ago it wasn't about health care but it was about the same principles that people are upset about now. 1)Taxation w/o representation; right now we are headed into an era of unprecedented taxing in our country and I can promise you that not a one of us feels our opinions are properly being represented and the tax increases continue, and they will continue to grow exponentially. 2) A gross misuse of the governments ability to control your every action; your a liar if you tell me this isn't going on. 3) The ability of the government to restrict and manipulate free trade & the banking system and the government controlled and owned businesses which creates a monopoly that benefits only the government; this time around its just been dressed up w/ a fancy name, "bailout", where they have stolen your and my dollars in order to purchase these companies that should have had no other choice but to fail. You think the gov't would just bail your or my business out of a jam that we created ourselves unless it was to solely benefit them?
> 
> There are many other parallels to now and 200+ years ago that would take days to discuss in an intelligent manner, such as the idea of the government being the weakest at the federal level & strongest at the state & county (where WE the PEOPLE have the best representation). It is time that we as a people stand up and shout at the top of our lungs, enough is enough! The government is here to serve US an not the other way around. We as citizens hold the power, politicians are our servants and its high time they start behaving as such and return to a system that is of the people, by the people and by God, for the people!


Verry well said! I commend you on this post!


----------



## AR_Headhunter

georgiabuckdan said:


> Verry well said! I commend you on this post!


Agreed! He hit the nail right on the head.


----------



## OneArmArrowSlinger

georgiabuckdan said:


> Verry well said! I commend you on this post!





AR_Headhunter said:


> Agreed! He hit the nail right on the head.


Its nice to see someone else get it for a change. I wish people would take the time to read and educate themselves on the actual history and reasons our country was founded & the vision that our forefathers had for this great republic instead of listening to the mush-minded crap that is spoon fed through the media and school systems.


----------



## Carpshooter

*Amazing !*

:mg: I believe that consevatives are entitled to their opinions ,but the majority of the people at one vote per person have sided with the liberal way of thinking and thus fabrication is the only weapon that right-wing conservatives seem to know now !:sad:

It's the right wingers who lost as they are in the minority ,that are really sore losers here and bringing up history where it suits them , is their only way of doing things is in scaring people into thinkig they know what's right as it is these who know socialism best (check out their threads & posts ), as many others who don't want that have sided with freedom loving Liberals ,no surprise !

I wish everyone here well ,but childist behavior is only showing the immaturity of the narrow minded lost souls of the right-wingers of the Republican party that has mislead this country too long as they are the party of the blind leading the blind ( they need alot more blind folks :embara: no doubt ) , as most of us citizens who vote ,can see !

Let the next presidential election show this ( the past one sure did and has caused this elected revolution ),as today's majority voters are not with a party that is only for the good of a few ( this is the party know as the minority today ) as there is a reason for that .:sad:


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

Just wait for the 2010 elections. American's are finally waking up. And the congress will be in deadlock.


----------



## OneArmArrowSlinger

Carpshooter said:


> :mg: I believe that consevatives are entitled to their opinions ,but the majority of the people at one vote per person have sided with the liberal way of thinking and thus fabrication is the only weapon that right-wing conservatives seem to know now !:sad:
> 
> It's the right wingers who lost as they are in the minority ,that are really sore losers here and bringing up history where it suits them , is their only way of doing things is in scaring people into thinkig they know what's right as it is these who know socialism best (check out their threads & posts ), as many others who don't want that have sided with freedom loving Liberals ,no surprise !
> 
> I wish everyone here well ,but childist behavior is only showing the immaturity of the narrow minded lost souls of the right-wingers of the Republican party that has mislead this country too long as they are the party of the blind leading the blind ( they need alot more blind folks :embara: no doubt ) , as most of us citizens who vote ,can see !
> 
> Let the next presidential election show this ( the past one sure did and has caused this elected revolution ),as today's majority voters are not with a party that is only for the good of a few ( this is the party know as the minority today ) as there is a reason for that .:sad:


You're right, it was a political revolution, in the wrong direction. And I hope you aren't pigeon holing me into the right-wing republican camp because thats definitely not the case, there are a lot of things I don't care for about the GOP. But, there are 3 morals that I value above other and I will not sway upon, that is I highly dislike big gov't & taxes, I'm a staunch opponent of the whole pro-choice movement, and I support the 2nd amendment above all others. I bring up history b/c as a country and a people we need to understand the things this country was founded upon. Those happen to be democracy, capitalism, and personal freedom. All 3 of the basic tenants of the basis of our nation are being whittled down, corroded and diluted into nothing day by day.


----------



## wicked1Joe

I'm Not Ted said:


> People voted him in for a reason, it's been 9 months, give him a shot. Hell, we had Bush for 8 years, I think that Liberals for the most part, behaved.


You are either kidding...or you have had a few too many brews...


----------



## wicked1Joe

clydesdale said:


> i think liberals and conservatives should part ways .Agree to disagree and seperate that being said i hope the conservatives would get the west.I would like a civil seperation but if not im prepared to fight .Somethings got to give, but im not going to. socialism needs to stop it breeds parasites on society


I agree....give the libs the east, say everything east of the Mississippi river and the right everything west of it...

and I will live in Montana or Texas.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

Well since our federal government is once again pushing something we the people do not want down our throats, (health care). I figured we might get some fresh perspectives on this issue. 

I think this trend of the federal government trying to take over every aspect of our lives will continue until we are finally fed up.


----------



## whitehunter2

AR_Headhunter said:


> Well since our federal government is once again pushing something we the people do not want down our throats, (health care). I figured we might get some fresh perspectives on this issue.
> 
> I think this trend of the federal government trying to take over every aspect of our lives will continue until we are finally fed up.


lets see, insurance companies can no longer cut off you or someone in your family for being too sick? uhh if you have a pre existing condition they can no longer tell you we can't insure you? uhhh people who make tons of money and don't really pay much in the way of income tax anyway will be taxed to help fund Americans who don't have ins.
ohh lets look at it this way, 40 thousand Americans DIE unnecessarily every year due to not having health ins????
uhhh the republicans who claim to be for entrepreneurship stand by and watch, do NOTHING for decades while millions of Americans who want to start a business of their very own CAN"T because they can't afford 12 grand a year to insure their families, i personally know of several local private contractors that went to work for townships and big business just to insure their families...
well enough said, the Republicans got their noses rubbed in the dirt for trying to protect insurance companies and big business, I'm LOVING IT MAN!!!!!


----------



## john5mt

> I agree....give the libs the east, say everything east of the Mississippi river and the right everything west of it...
> 
> and I will live in Montana or Texas


Youd be surprised how many loony libs we have here.
We have two democrat senators, and a democrat governor. Max Baucas is unfortunately ours. (He was heading up the healthcare writing before reid butted in). 

I love montana but weve imported a crap load of libs and our kids are showing the reflection of too many lib teachers.


----------



## whitehunter2

i never thought i could hate a group of people more than the libs in this country, well after seeing the behavior of these far right wingnuts lately i was wrong....never saw a bigger bunch of idiots/suckers..


----------



## Jim C

whitehunter2 said:


> i never thought i could hate a group of people more than the libs in this country, well after seeing the behavior of these far right wingnuts lately i was wrong....never saw a bigger bunch of idiots/suckers..


I cannot stand the brain dead bible thumpers (ie the idiots who said they wouldn't vote for Mitt Romney if he ran because he was a Mormon) but at least those with that form of obsessive-compulsive behavior don't cost me money or infringe on any of the rights I find most important. The socialist moonbat types, on the other hand, seek to confiscate more and more of what I make, expand the number of parasites and leeches, and ban guns, hunting fishing etc. 

The far religious right are like the flu while the socialist left is brain cancer


----------



## superbuckeye

Pitchforks and Torches. It is time that govt was brought back to reality.


----------



## john5mt

whitehunter2 said:


> i never thought i could hate a group of people more than the libs in this country, well after seeing the behavior of these far right wingnuts lately i was wrong....never saw a bigger bunch of idiots/suckers..


which far right wignuts? what makes them far right as opposed to sort of right? What behavior lately as opposed to not so recently?


----------



## firestorms

How is it that taking money from someone's pocket to give to someone who didnt earn it has somehow all of a sudden become ok? Because we are only taxing "The rich"? Well, in the end, we will all be paying for this travisty. 

Will the insurance companies just decide they dont want as much profit, so they will deal with these new regs and change nothing? They will simply pass the cost onto the consumers, us. Why should my family have to pay to insure someone else, while my own cost for insurance goes up? That gives me much less incentive to do well, because it will simply cost me more to live so that some illegal, or lazy jerk, can sit around eating cheeseburgers while I work to pay their bills.

Plus, you dont even really have the .gov option as an alternative. With the overhead on gov programs and the thousands of new beurecrats whose only job will be to deny you coverage, while you pay out the nose for the privilidge. the cost for those programs will be astronomicazl, and so even if you dont use it, you will simple pay for it with taxes. Great idea huh?


----------



## livinn59801

*Yawn*

Only in America do we the sheeple see everything as liberal or conservative - left or right. It is sad that so many of us cannot think for ourselves and instead become entrenched in these positions, sold to us by the likes of Olberman, Hannity, etc...


----------



## whitehunter2

your average blue collar working joe has no way to hide any of his income and pays for everything this country needs or wants and it's time they get a break. people in these high income brackets i speak of have dozens of ways to avoid paying income taxes and in many, many situations someone who makes an annual income of 500k+ pay's little more or even less than your average joe making a salary of 70k.


----------



## whitehunter2

john5mt said:


> which far right wignuts? what makes them far right as opposed to sort of right? What behavior lately as opposed to not so recently?


ok i'll bite, how about we start at the top with your sun tanned used car looking salesman John Boehner or any one of his cronnies who has no interest in helping the American people but all the interest in the world of protecting monster insurance companies. ohhh and ok the other idiots like Mitchell Backman, glenn beck and other tards like them. 
ohh and by the way boehner is pronounced BONER not Bayner, yea just what it sounds like, pronoucing it the way he preffers is how it sounds in German, haaa, how unAmerican is that i ask you:smileinbox:
and i'm sure Boners biggest issue with the bill is that they are going to start taxing tanning beds:shade:


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

whitehunter2 said:


> lets see, insurance companies can no longer cut off you or someone in your family for being too sick? uhh if you have a pre existing condition they can no longer tell you we can't insure you? uhhh people who make tons of money and don't really pay much in the way of income tax anyway will be taxed to help fund Americans who don't have ins.
> ohh lets look at it this way, 40 thousand Americans DIE unnecessarily every year due to not having health ins????uhhh the republicans who claim to be for entrepreneurship stand by and watch, do NOTHING for decades while millions of Americans who want to start a business of their very own CAN"T because they can't afford 12 grand a year to insure their families, i personally know of several local private contractors that went to work for townships and big business just to insure their families...well enough said, the Republicans got their noses rubbed in the dirt for trying to protect insurance companies and big business, I'm LOVING IT MAN!!!!!


First off, 40,000 do not die a year for lack of health care. Your numbers are bogus to say the least. After the health care bill you will see the numbers go up for the elderly and cancer strictened. Just look at Canada and England. And nobody says that changes didn't need done. And now we the people have to "buy" insurance because we were born. Can you give just 1 example that is the same? Don't spout off car ins, one does not have to own a car.

Second, there is no conservative democrats left. They can be bought off very easily as a republican. Moderate democrats are a thing of the past. And the American people have taken notice. I'll go out on a limb and say the republicans take back the House in 2010. Over 60% of Americans oppose this legistlation. Only 35% in favor. Again, changes are needed, but not the ones the dems forced down the throats of Americans.

Third, we are only now learning what is all in this bill. How about the no repeal section where it says a future congress can not change this law. That is unconstitutional. Even Admendments can be made or revised with the proper congressional vote. How can they insert such language and it be legal? FBI will have access to the medical records. Why? You be the judge. As far as going to work for someone else, I've been doing it for years. I don't like working in factories, but I do it for my family. That's called freedom of choice. I sacrifice for my family, to do things that must be done and I don't look for handouts. That's called being a man. To make tough choices. To teach my kids to do better than I have. 

Finally, the representatives in Washington are not looking out for the American people. They are watching out for themselves. We need to set lifetime term limits on ALL government representatives. It's time to clean house. And, I hope it doesn't take force to take back our country.


----------



## whitehunter2

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> First off, 40,000 do not die a year for lack of health care. Your numbers are bogus to say the least. After the health care bill you will see the numbers go up for the elderly and cancer strictened. Just look at Canada and England. And nobody says that changes didn't need done. And now we the people have to "buy" insurance because we were born. Can you give just 1 example that is the same? Don't spout off car ins, one does not have to own a car.
> 
> Second, there is no conservative democrats left. They can be bought off very easily as a republican. Moderate democrats are a thing of the past. And the American people have taken notice. I'll go out on a limb and say the republicans take back the House in 2010. Over 60% of Americans oppose this legistlation. Only 35% in favor. Again, changes are needed, but not the ones the dems forced down the throats of Americans.
> 
> Third, we are only now learning what is all in this bill. How about the no repeal section where it says a future congress can not change this law. That is unconstitutional. Even Admendments can be made or revised with the proper congressional vote. How can they insert such language and it be legal? FBI will have access to the medical records. Why? You be the judge. As far as going to work for someone else, I've been doing it for years. I don't like working in factories, but I do it for my family. That's called freedom of choice. I sacrifice for my family, to do things that must be done and I don't look for handouts. That's called being a man. To make tough choices. To teach my kids to do better than I have.
> 
> Finally, the representatives in Washington are not looking out for the American people. They are watching out for themselves. We need to set lifetime term limits on ALL government representatives. It's time to clean house. And, I hope it doesn't take force to take back our country.


sorry i just couldnt read your whole post, you lost me after saying Canada and England has worse healthcare than we do. we could only dream of the health care other countries like Canada and Europe provide for their people, with this new bill we are going to be closer but nowhere near to what my relations in Canada and Europe have. and the part about you not wanting to pay for other peoples health care, well surprise your doing that already!
to Europeans it's unimaginable that Americans walk around with missing teeth because they can't afford to go to a dentist. or that an insurance company can stop paying for your cancer treatments because you have reached some kind of limit??? or that you can lose everything you have ever worked for because you have a child that is strickened with cancer or a family member is just too sick....
your arguments are old, worn out just like our health care system, it's time to make a change in the way people have been receiving or basically have not been receiving health care in this country and it looks like it is finally going to happen. not perfect but much much better.
and i don't know where your getting your polling numbers but the majority of Americans want big INS to stop screwing with their health, nuff said......next!!


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

Well, I have talked to plenty of Canadians and ALL hate their system. All commented to me that " you better know 6 months ahead of when your going to get sick." And no one is turned away from life and death care when they need it. It is just another entitlement. People think this country owes them a lavish life. If you like Canada and Britian so much, I'm sure they'll accept you into their communities. Go live there. It's a choice your allowed to make. I love people who don't like the rules and always want to change them to their advantage. And because of this legislation, my premiums WILL increase. The only way they can "lower" the cost of medical care is to spread it across more people. That is why they must FORCE people to buy it. Ask any Canadian or Brit what their average wait time is to see a specialist. Where I live, many of the doctors are Canadian. They couldn't even make their tuition payments when practicing in Ccriseanada. That's why they moved here. Best way to make the Healthcare Industry to tank is for the government to take it over. Why would the wealthy invest in a commodiaty without the profit? Think bout it. If all of a sudden the wealthest people took their money out of the banks, stock market and other investments, put in their matresses. The entire country would collapse. How are we going to pay back China? You going to write the check?

When Clinton signed NAFTA. Yes Clinton signed NAFTA, all of our factory jobs started to head to foreign counties. A country that produces nothing has nothing. That is where we are heading. Clinton also signed into law the standards forcing banks to give loans to people without good credit. This lead to the crises. It is best that the government keeps their fingers out.

I agree that changes needed made. Giving the uninsurable coverage. They should give credit rebates to those who's income is to low. They should have allowed insurance companies cross state lines. They should have givin tort reform to bring down malpractice insurance. But as you know, the insurance companies are in bed with the Republicans and the trial lawyers with the Democrats. Changes need made but, the current bill WILL NOT do it.

As far as cancer, I hope your younger than 55 because if your older you'll have to take one for team. Ramasy polls. Times polls. You need to look at neutral polls. Not republican or democratic polls. And if you want to donate YOUR money to a cause, go ahead it's YOUR CHOICE. Freedom of choice, but when the only choices are between 2, there is no real choice.


----------



## whitehunter2

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> Well, I have talked to plenty of Canadians and ALL hate their system. All commented to me that " you better know 6 months ahead of when your going to get sick." And no one is turned away from life and death care when they need it. It is just another entitlement. People think this country owes them a lavish life. If you like Canada and Britian so much, I'm sure they'll accept you into their communities. Go live there. It's a choice your allowed to make. I love people who don't like the rules and always want to change them to their advantage. And because of this legislation, my premiums WILL increase. The only way they can "lower" the cost of medical care is to spread it across more people. That is why they must FORCE people to buy it. Ask any Canadian or Brit what their average wait time is to see a specialist. Where I live, many of the doctors are Canadian. They couldn't even make their tuition payments when practicing in Ccriseanada. That's why they moved here. Best way to make the Healthcare Industry to tank is for the government to take it over. Why would the wealthy invest in a commodiaty without the profit? Think bout it. If all of a sudden the wealthest people took their money out of the banks, stock market and other investments, put in their matresses. The entire country would collapse. How are we going to pay back China? You going to write the check?
> 
> When Clinton signed NAFTA. Yes Clinton signed NAFTA, all of our factory jobs started to head to foreign counties. A country that produces nothing has nothing. That is where we are heading. Clinton also signed into law the standards forcing banks to give loans to people without good credit. This lead to the crises. It is best that the government keeps their fingers out.
> 
> I agree that changes needed made. Giving the uninsurable coverage. They should give credit rebates to those who's income is to low. They should have allowed insurance companies cross state lines. They should have givin tort reform to bring down malpractice insurance. But as you know, the insurance companies are in bed with the Republicans and the trial lawyers with the Democrats. Changes need made but, the current bill WILL NOT do it.
> 
> As far as cancer, I hope your younger than 55 because if your older you'll have to take one for team. Ramasy polls. Times polls. You need to look at neutral polls. Not republican or democratic polls. And if you want to donate YOUR money to a cause, go ahead it's YOUR CHOICE. Freedom of choice, but when the only choices are between 2, there is no real choice.


go on to the Excalibur crossbow site/forum and you can talk to hundreds of real Canadians about their health care, you will find out that Canadians love their health care system and wouldnt trade it for what we have here in the USA in a million years, Excal is a Canadian company and the majority of people on their forum are Canadians, you will get the real story, not the story that American politicains who are anti health care will tell you, thats right the TRUTH from real Canadians, i invite anyone who bashes Canada's health care system to due this....you will get the TRUTH not the fantasy horror stories that fox news tells you. i dare you to start a poll on their site asking about Canada's health care system and if they would switch it with what we have!!!
and as far as a truely 1st class health care system France ranks at #1 in the world!! yea France the country our leaders are always telling us we must bash?
and as far as not liking the rules in the country i live in, well i'm starting to like them better because they are being changed, unlike other 3rd world nations where people run from their govs we Americans stay and fight and change things. it appears you don't like the rules with whats coming with our new health care bill, so maybe you should pack up and go:wink:


----------



## clydesdale

*socialism sucks*

this thread started 9/9/09 and i have not seen a single thing get better only worse under this stupid president if you like canada and europe better go there, how can i teach my kids self reliancy and responsiblity when we are rewarding laziness and punishing success.I personally dont give a **** what europeans think or like or any other country for that matter.all i know is im tired of this liberal president/house/congress they all are going to hell in my opinon and the sooner the better im sure ted kennedy is saving them a seat


----------



## optimax

Obama is a monkey that needs to shot with a curare dart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is spending money we do not have. I wish they would start Impeachment against him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## whitehunter2

optimax said:


> Obama is a monkey that needs to shot with a curare dart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> He is spending money we do not have. I wish they would start Impeachment against him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


now thats funny i don't care who you are:set1_rolf2:


----------



## whitehunter2

clydesdale said:


> this thread started 9/9/09 and i have not seen a single thing get better only worse under this stupid president if you like canada and europe better go there, how can i teach my kids self reliancy and responsiblity when we are rewarding laziness and punishing success.I personally dont give a **** what europeans think or like or any other country for that matter.all i know is im tired of this liberal president/house/congress they all are going to hell in my opinon and the sooner the better im sure ted kennedy is saving them a seat


ney sir, i beleive it's you whom might be better served in another country, try the middle east or some of the south American hell holes, most of those countries have a health care system which you would just be fine with:wink:


----------



## AR_Headhunter

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> First off, 40,000 do not die a year for lack of health care. Your numbers are bogus to say the least. After the health care bill you will see the numbers go up for the elderly and cancer strictened. Just look at Canada and England. And nobody says that changes didn't need done. And now we the people have to "buy" insurance because we were born. Can you give just 1 example that is the same? Don't spout off car ins, one does not have to own a car.
> 
> Second, there is no conservative democrats left. They can be bought off very easily as a republican. Moderate democrats are a thing of the past. And the American people have taken notice. I'll go out on a limb and say the republicans take back the House in 2010. Over 60% of Americans oppose this legistlation. Only 35% in favor. Again, changes are needed, but not the ones the dems forced down the throats of Americans.
> 
> Third, we are only now learning what is all in this bill. How about the no repeal section where it says a future congress can not change this law. That is unconstitutional. Even Admendments can be made or revised with the proper congressional vote. How can they insert such language and it be legal? FBI will have access to the medical records. Why? You be the judge. As far as going to work for someone else, I've been doing it for years. I don't like working in factories, but I do it for my family. That's called freedom of choice. I sacrifice for my family, to do things that must be done and I don't look for handouts. That's called being a man. To make tough choices. To teach my kids to do better than I have.
> 
> Finally, the representatives in Washington are not looking out for the American people. They are watching out for themselves. We need to set lifetime term limits on ALL government representatives. It's time to clean house. And, I hope it doesn't take force to take back our country.


Great post! Many of us are like you in the fact that we hope it doesn't take force to take back our country but we are preparing for the worst case senario.


----------



## dxtbowhuntersj

bad thing is it will be bloodier than any other war. and it will be man against man not side against side.


----------



## livinn59801

john5mt said:


> Youd be surprised how many loony libs we have here.
> We have two democrat senators, and a democrat governor. Max Baucas is unfortunately ours. (He was heading up the healthcare writing before reid butted in).
> 
> I love montana but weve imported a crap load of libs and our kids are showing the reflection of too many lib teachers.


Montanans are for the most part pretty independent.


----------



## whitehunter2

AR_Headhunter said:


> Great post! Many of us are like you in the fact that we hope it doesn't take force to take back our country but we are preparing for the worst case senario.


take a good look around you, you are more than likely surrounded by your perceived enemy already, never start a war you can't win, thats the very first rule in military conflick.


----------



## whitehunter2

livinn59801 said:


> Montanans are for the most part pretty independent.


yea right a whole seperate country huh!!! you got more granola eaters in Montana than in California:darkbeer:


----------



## kraven

whitehunter2 said:


> yea right a whole seperate country huh!!! you got more granola eaters in Montana than in California:darkbeer:


What's wrong with granola? I like granola?

Perhaps you should publish a list of acceptable foods for the rebellion.


----------



## whitehunter2

kraven said:


> What's wrong with granola? I like granola?
> 
> Perhaps you should publish a list of acceptable foods for the rebellion.


well do you eat ribs and cheesburgers, because in that case i'm not really sure????


----------



## whitehunter2

i think the whole idea of a civil war is pretty far fetched, i would have to spend weeks deciding on who i need to kill and who's OK, lets see....
Kill List...
1. people who want to take my guns
2. people who don't want to stop big insurance from screwing hard working Americans
you see i'm screwed already maybe we can just keep it simple and do the north south thing again,,,,whew were do we start???


----------



## cptbrain

whitehunter2 said:


> i think the whole idea of a civil war is pretty far fetched, i would have to spend weeks deciding on who i need to kill and who's OK, lets see....
> Kill List...
> 1. people who want to take my guns
> 2. people who don't want to stop big insurance from screwing hard working Americans
> you see i'm screwed already maybe we can just keep it simple and do the north south thing again,,,,whew were do we start???


Not as easy as north and south. The parties in this fight are everywhere. The anti-gun people may also be anti-gov health care people. While the pro gun people may be pro gov. health care. Confusing times, not like the war or northern agression/states rights/slavery=whatever you want to call it. Not a way of life versus another.


----------



## whitehunter2

cptbrain said:


> Not as easy as north and south. The parties in this fight are everywhere. The anti-gun people may also be anti-gov health care people. While the pro gun people may be pro gov. health care. Confusing times, not like the war or northern agression/states rights/slavery=whatever you want to call it. Not a way of life versus another.


did you ever think maybe our Gov planned it this way???multi faceted division from east to west coasts, so they can screw us over easier?? heck there's division amonst housholds or even 4 people riding in a car..


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

whitehunter2 said:


> did you ever think maybe our Gov planned it this way???multi faceted division from east to west coasts, so they can screw us over easier?? heck there's division amonst housholds or even 4 people riding in a car..


This is the common ground that we agree on.


----------



## skybolt

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> Just wait for the 2010 elections.


Took the words right out of my mouth!


----------



## skybolt

whitehunter2 said:


> go on to the Excalibur crossbow site/forum and you can talk to hundreds of real Canadians about their health care, you will find out that Canadians love their health care system and wouldnt trade it for what we have here in the USA in a million years


 I talked with a real Canadian (in person) and he didn't have a good thing to say about it. He needed an operation though so it sounds like the people that like it have not needed it yet.


----------



## whitehunter2

skybolt said:


> I talked with a real Canadian (in person) and he didn't have a good thing to say about it. He needed an operation though so it sounds like the people that like it have not needed it yet.


i've spoken to hundreds of Canadians in person and online,the vast majority say they wouldnt trade their health care for American healthcare in a million years. i know of many cases of Canadians who live here in the US that have gone back to Canada when confronted with a serious illness. the Canadians have a saying, yea we like the US but there's 2 things you can't beat us Canadians at, and thats hockey and healthcare.


----------



## skybolt

whitehunter2 said:


> i've spoken to hundreds of Canadians in person and online,the vast majority say they wouldnt trade their health care for American healthcare in a million years. i know of many cases of Canadians who live here in the US that have gone back to Canada when confronted with a serious illness. the Canadians have a saying, yea we like the US but there's 2 things you can't beat us Canadians at, and thats hockey and healthcare.


Just going what the owner of the fishing lodge we go to every year around Sioux Lookout, Ontario. He said it sucks. Thats all I know. Not trying to argue with you but just first hand conversation with a man that has been there.


----------



## rocklocker2

*civil wars suck*

what we need is a revolution and take our country back.im not a racist but soon we will be a minority and be fighting for equal rights again.when you get ready to start the revolution let me know where the sign up line starts.all polititions are liars and most were lawyers first.got no use for either


----------



## john5mt

Ive lived in canada....needed stitches in my chin.... took six hours to get a doc in cuz they wouldnt let a nurse stich me up. My friend got in an accident there, they almost let an air bubble get through his iv. He ripped it out before it happened. 

My wife is a canadian and she'll tell you our system is better. 

But EVEN IF the canadain system was better IT DOESNT MATTER cuz there is no enumerated power given the congress, senate, president, or judiciary to take my money from me at gun point and given to your lazy ***** for health care


----------



## cptbrain

whitehunter2 said:


> did you ever think maybe our Gov planned it this way???multi faceted division from east to west coasts, so they can screw us over easier?? heck there's division amonst housholds or even 4 people riding in a car..


Wow, that is a serious conspiracy theory. Ok, our government, which is pretty good at not doing things well, is so good they got all these people from different backgrounds and beliefs to be spread all over the country, without any of them knowing it? Ok, I believe it.


----------



## drenalinxt

*well i am telling*

well i am telling you right now, that if this healthcare bill is passed, and crap and tax bill is passed it is to late, even if you do vote them out that will take forever if then to get it turned around. the way i see it theres not only going to be revolt against the goverment to take our country back. but an all out uncivil rest. i mean do you really think you are going to sit idley by and let this happen to your country. if so there are more winnies than i thought there was in this country. i mean it can't be just the devil's head to be wack off, has to be all of them, right on down the stumbling block. cause if you don't their agenda is to get rid of you. so people better be thinking about what their going to do when the time comes. i ready for when it the hits the fan. i have enough food stored and know how to survive in all conditions. obama has already ok the foreign troops to become cops over here. just today 12/29/09 they will have diplomatic amunity here, to come and arrest anyone. read it. couple talk show host have been talking about it today and also it is worldnet daily. and those you who think it won't happen here. your the ones that will be saying well i didn't think that would happen. you all get caught in your own little world thinking your zone is safe, not for if you don't start helping do something. your goverment already wants to target you as terroist, but yet it is ok for the muslims to have their own training camps here without the goverment doing anything about it. and they training to wack your head off friend.


----------



## BarneySlayer

sawtoothscream said:


> I don't think a civil war. But maybe a revolt against the government


The government is certainly revolting...

And I don't mean that in a party-specific context..ukey:


----------



## BarneySlayer

whitehunter2 said:


> well do you eat ribs and cheesburgers, because in that case i'm not really sure????



I LOVE ribs and cheeseburgers. But, I like most any food that isn't poop or part of a nervous system, that I can think of...

Granola is fine, in moderation. Too much and my jaw muscles get tired.


----------



## BarneySlayer

This thread is exhausting, and I see little to do with hunting rights..

They're all boobs.

Everybody wants lower taxes, but they still want roads and services.

People don't like chipping in to other people's health care, but it costs more because hospitals can't turn people away from emergency rooms.

If your government spends money on something you approve of, it's necessary for our future/freedom/etc., but if you don't like it, it's irresponsible.

Most all of the news has degraded to entertainment-based choir-preaching, pick your side (and the bipolar sides are artificial, if you _really_ listen to what both are saying), and you've got your subscription.

I know people most of you would call liberal. I know people most of you would identify as conservative. I like most all of them. They're all pretty intelligent, at least they seem to me, but i'm not a genius either  They all, I think, disagree a lot less than they'd like to believe.

The one, truly disturbing trend I see, which is not liberal or conservative (and I maintain that those labels are meant to divide us on the ground level) is that power is continually being centralized away from us, the citizens, at the local level. My state, California, with an incompetent legislature and a B.S., smoke and mirrors governator, is playing games with money sucking local taxes out of intended purposes, like maintaining street lights and paying teachers, so that they can cover their ass to make the budget seem more balanced. My state pays way more to the Federal government than we get back in allocated spending.... when Enron created rolling blackouts to sock us for basic utilities, the federal government told us too bad.

Second amendment rights? Remember that part in the constitution about the purpose of maintaining a well regulated militia? I'm all for individual gun rights for law abiding, responsible citizens. I applaud it. Doesn't change the fact that the state militias are now a state's portion of a National Guard, which the Federal government can do with as it pleases, when it pleases.

Founding fathers, albeit perhaps not perfect role models as owners of slaves, would most certainly be disgusted by the whole thing, and in my opinion, it would have nothing to do with the distraction issues most often brought up as liberal vs. conservative fights. _Hey look over there._

Our economic crisis has been brewing far longer than any one party has been in power, and runs far deeper than consumer confidence deficit spending.

I'm sorry to be a hypocrite, but it touched something that I needed to vent. I say all of this very respectful of all of your opinions. I just think it's deeper than the manure on top. Wish you all the best.


----------



## hoodedmonk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N40d047u-L8


----------



## BarneySlayer

hoodedmonk said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N40d047u-L8


best commentary yet


----------



## AR_Headhunter

whitehunter2 said:


> take a good look around you, you are more than likely surrounded by your perceived enemy already, never start a war you can't win, thats the very first rule in military conflick.


Well apparently roughly 60% of the population thinks a civil war is coming. Maybe our government is surrounded by the "enemy" & would be fighting a war they could not win.


----------



## hoodedmonk

AR_Headhunter said:


> Well apparently roughly 60% of the population thinks a civil war is coming. Maybe our government is surrounded by the "enemy" & would be fighting a war they could not win.


How will I identify the enemy in this civll war? What do the bad guys look like? Is it going to be just shoot anyone in a gov. uniform? Will it be clear cut like a North South thing with defining borders? A race or color scheme maybe? If so witch one's are for what side? I guess we could line up and pick teams like back in the good ol'e days! (school). If Its going to be race Can we have the Mexicans on our side ? My wife and daughter are Hispanic and I'm kind of fond of them. Maybe even a few Vietnamese to cuz I recently started working with some and they seem ok. Oh yeah! If it's a gov. thing maybe we could leave the local Sheriffs on our side,cuz ours are pretty cool up here. Will we have to wait for our soldiers to come home from defending our freedom or oil? (depending on what side of the fence ur on) before we put a cap in them. I would probably be alright with shooting a few liberals but it might be a pain having to ask each one for there opinions before offing them:sad: Dang this just isn't as cut and dry as the old days! How am I going to prepare for this? What will be the boarders for the two sides? will I have to move? I hope not have you seen the price of housing these days! this isn't really a sellers market either. Maybe You could rent us a room for cheap? If of coarse ur ok with the Mexican thing Don't tell her I said she was Mexican though cuz there originally from Texas. That's a whole nother complicated issue in it's self.


----------



## hoodedmonk

I guess I could just sit around and collect bullets.


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

hoodedmonk said:


> How will I identify the enemy in this civll war? What do the bad guys look like? Is it going to be just shoot anyone in a gov. uniform? Will it be clear cut like a North South thing with defining borders? A race or color scheme maybe? If so witch one's are for what side? I guess we could line up and pick teams like back in the good ol'e days! (school). If Its going to be race Can we have the Mexicans on our side ? My wife and daughter are Hispanic and I'm kind of fond of them. Maybe even a few Vietnamese to cuz I recently started working with some and they seem ok. Oh yeah! If it's a gov. thing maybe we could leave the local Sheriffs on our side,cuz ours are pretty cool up here. Will we have to wait for our soldiers to come home from defending our freedom or oil? (depending on what side of the fence ur on) before we put a cap in them. I would probably be alright with shooting a few liberals but it might be a pain having to ask each one for there opinions before offing them:sad: Dang this just isn't as cut and dry as the old days! How am I going to prepare for this? What will be the boarders for the two sides? will I have to move? I hope not have you seen the price of housing these days! this isn't really a sellers market either. Maybe You could rent us a room for cheap? If of coarse ur ok with the Mexican thing Don't tell her I said she was Mexican though cuz there originally from Texas. That's a whole nother complicated issue in it's self.


This also could be used to describe the fight against Al Quada. And our new president doesn't seem too concerned about that. Welcome to the new definition of war.


----------



## hoodedmonk

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> This also could be used to describe the fight against Al Quada. And our new president doesn't seem too concerned about that. Welcome to the new definition of war.


witch is?


----------



## hoodedmonk

SHOOT-N-STAB said:


> This also could be used to describe the fight against Al Quada. And our new president doesn't seem too concerned about that. Welcome to the new definition of war.


Maybe you could do a better job at defining the sides of the war for me than the op............So I can prepare.


----------



## jna329

After reading 3 long pages of this I must say that there are a few that need to wake up. I dont feel that the "civil war" idea is far fetched. It does not mean the same type of war as we had in the past. Civil means -of ,or pertaining to, or consisting of citizens. war means - an active hostility or contention, conflict, struggle. So in reality a civil war can be a citizen uprising or citizen struggle. The struggle against a socialist society or just against an abusive government. I believe that if the "government" we currently have continues along the same path, then as a God fearing American we will have no choice but to rise against said government with any means necessary. 
The choices being made and the changes that are being forced upon all of us whether right or wrong will have lasting effects. The majority of you that agree with the health care reform, the way the war on terror, the taxing, gun control, land usage bans, etc., are not thinking beyond yourself and your wallet. I propose that you ask yourselves these questions before you make a decision on anything. How will this effect "the" childrens futures, what will this do to the economy as a whole, how will this effect my neighbor, and would God support my decision. These four questions are not necessarily in the order of importance but must be asked. The government that we have allowed to be in control is rapidly destroying this great country. We have got to stop the B.S. spending and the pockey lining agenda of these criminal politicians. 
If it comes to a civil war of old; then you should know- I will resist the "Hope and Change policy" that the "government" is working so hard to push. I will stand up for my rights and the rights of my neighbors in order to make a better future for my children, my neighbors children, and even the child of the man that opposes me. So if it takes a war then bring it on. There are many ways to fight and I, for one, have already begun. Educate yourselves, express your opinions, find common grounds and stand upon them(armed if necessary). 
This is not a race war, or a north vs south thing anymore. Its about survival of our nation vs those that are destroying it. 
Our country is supposed to be a republic(a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens). We have for too long let this slip away. time to take our country back.


----------



## hoodedmonk

jna329 said:


> After reading 3 long pages of this I must say that there are a few that need to wake up. I dont feel that the "civil war" idea is far fetched. It does not mean the same type of war as we had in the past. Civil means -of ,or pertaining to, or consisting of citizens. war means - an active hostility or contention, conflict, struggle. So in reality a civil war can be a citizen uprising or citizen struggle. The struggle against a socialist society or just against an abusive government. I believe that if the "government" we currently have continues along the same path, then as a God fearing American we will have no choice but to rise against said government with any means necessary.
> The choices being made and the changes that are being forced upon all of us whether right or wrong will have lasting effects. The majority of you that agree with the health care reform, the way the war on terror, the taxing, gun control, land usage bans, etc., are not thinking beyond yourself and your wallet. I propose that you ask yourselves these questions before you make a decision on anything. How will this effect "the" childrens futures, what will this do to the economy as a whole, how will this effect my neighbor, and would God support my decision. These four questions are not necessarily in the order of importance but must be asked. The government that we have allowed to be in control is rapidly destroying this great country. We have got to stop the B.S. spending and the pockey lining agenda of these criminal politicians.
> If it comes to a civil war of old; then you should know- I will resist the "Hope and Change policy" that the "government" is working so hard to push. I will stand up for my rights and the rights of my neighbors in order to make a better future for my children, my neighbors children, and even the child of the man that opposes me. So if it takes a war then bring it on. There are many ways to fight and I, for one, have already begun. Educate yourselves, express your opinions, find common grounds and stand upon them(armed if necessary).
> This is not a race war, or a north vs south thing anymore. Its about survival of our nation vs those that are destroying it.
> Our country is supposed to be a republic(a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens). We have for too long let this slip away. time to take our country back.


So if we take it back by the use of force,who do we take it from?Who's children? a violent war wouldnt help mine. I don't think a violent/civil war would help boost the economy,my neighbors???? I have always had my doubts about God supporting killing. I don't know I'm not convinced a war is the answer.


----------



## jna329

hoodedmonk said:


> So if we take it back by the use of force,who do we take it from?Who's children? a violent war wouldnt help mine. I don't think a violent/civil war would help boost the economy,my neighbors???? I have always had my doubts about God supporting killing. I don't know I'm not convinced a war is the answer.


you need to reread the beginning of my post. your definition of war is not the same as mine. you automatically assume we are saying grab your guns and start killing anyone that opposes us. That is simply not the case. A civil war is a citizen uprising.
Vote out the congressmen/women and the senators that you disagree with. Impeach or at least do not reelect a president who cannot or doesnt stand up for the people. Express your educated opinion and have educated debate. Dont let people walk all over you. Dont sit around and do nothing. If none of that works then more drastic measures may be needed. Be prepared to defend your freedoms and principals by any means. Above all else- think of others first, especially the youth, as they are the future and they will pay for the wrongs we commit today. 
Fix it now, so our kids dont pay tomorrow.
As for God supporting killings. Sometimes a sacrifice is necessary. Just ask Jesus Christ!


----------



## AR_Headhunter

jna329 said:


> After reading 3 long pages of this I must say that there are a few that need to wake up. I dont feel that the "civil war" idea is far fetched. It does not mean the same type of war as we had in the past. Civil means -of ,or pertaining to, or consisting of citizens. war means - an active hostility or contention, conflict, struggle. So in reality a civil war can be a citizen uprising or citizen struggle. The struggle against a socialist society or just against an abusive government. I believe that if the "government" we currently have continues along the same path, then as a God fearing American we will have no choice but to rise against said government with any means necessary.
> The choices being made and the changes that are being forced upon all of us whether right or wrong will have lasting effects. The majority of you that agree with the health care reform, the way the war on terror, the taxing, gun control, land usage bans, etc., are not thinking beyond yourself and your wallet. I propose that you ask yourselves these questions before you make a decision on anything. How will this effect "the" childrens futures, what will this do to the economy as a whole, how will this effect my neighbor, and would God support my decision. These four questions are not necessarily in the order of importance but must be asked. The government that we have allowed to be in control is rapidly destroying this great country. We have got to stop the B.S. spending and the pockey lining agenda of these criminal politicians.
> If it comes to a civil war of old; then you should know- I will resist the "Hope and Change policy" that the "government" is working so hard to push. I will stand up for my rights and the rights of my neighbors in order to make a better future for my children, my neighbors children, and even the child of the man that opposes me. So if it takes a war then bring it on. There are many ways to fight and I, for one, have already begun. Educate yourselves, express your opinions, find common grounds and stand upon them(armed if necessary).
> This is not a race war, or a north vs south thing anymore. Its about survival of our nation vs those that are destroying it.
> Our country is supposed to be a republic(a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens). We have for too long let this slip away. time to take our country back.





jna329 said:


> you need to reread the beginning of my post. your definition of war is not the same as mine. you automatically assume we are saying grab your guns and start killing anyone that opposes us. That is simply not the case. A civil war is a citizen uprising.
> Vote out the congressmen/women and the senators that you disagree with. Impeach or at least do not reelect a president who cannot or doesnt stand up for the people. Express your educated opinion and have educated debate. Dont let people walk all over you. Dont sit around and do nothing. If none of that works then more drastic measures may be needed. Be prepared to defend your freedoms and principals by any means. Above all else- think of others first, especially the youth, as they are the future and they will pay for the wrongs we commit today.
> Fix it now, so our kids dont pay tomorrow.
> As for God supporting killings. Sometimes a sacrifice is necessary. Just ask Jesus Christ!


:thumbs_upThats 2 great post!:thumbs_up


----------



## whitehunter2

AR_Headhunter said:


> Well apparently roughly 60% of the population thinks a civil war is coming. Maybe our government is surrounded by the "enemy" & would be fighting a war they could not win.


you could never muster up the support to take on the US gov, and even if you could in some imaginary way you would certainly be stomped in short order and most of those who swore they would stand right beside you would run as soon as the bullets started flying, then they would sit back and be entertained by your stomping on cable news along with the rest of the world, it will never happen in the USA, the Gov has just gotten too powerful.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

No government is ever to powerful when it comes to a determined people. JMHO


----------



## whitehunter2

AR_Headhunter said:


> No government is ever to powerful when it comes to a determined people. JMHO


it's no accident our GOV has gotten as big and powerful as they are now, we have the worlds sharpest minds in our Gov, they have learned from the failure of hundreds of other governments before us. they do this mostly by keeping the American people just fat and happy enough to not wanna give up what they have, which a true war will require. it's only people that have already lost most of everything and are on the brink of starvation that our Gov has to fear...they haven't gotten us there just yet.
in polls taken in westernized countries we lead in the amount of people that say they fear their Government


----------



## AR_Headhunter

whitehunter2 said:


> it's no accident our GOV has gotten as big and powerful as they are now, we have the worlds sharpest minds in our Gov, they have learned from the failure of hundreds of other governments before us. they do this mostly by keeping the American people just fat and happy enough to not wanna give up what they have, which a true war will require. it's only people that have already lost most of everything and are on the brink of starvation that our Gov has to fear...they haven't gotten us there just yet.
> in polls taken in westernized countries we lead in the amount of people that say they fear their Government


Apparently that poll your referring to did not "poll" many people who think like me.


----------



## hoodedmonk

AR_Headhunter said:


> Apparently that poll your referring to did not "poll" many people who think like me.


Do ya think? :embara:


----------



## BarneySlayer

Consider that half of eligible voters don't even bother...

Would you really want to fight our own troops? That would suck.

How many would actually want to take on ATF, let alone the army...

And why alcohol, tobacco, and fire arms in one agency?

Weird.


----------



## rcgerchow

Maybe politicians have forgotten this:
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."


----------



## skybolt

AR_Headhunter said:


> No government is ever to powerful when it comes to a determined people. JMHO


The "goat ropers" are killing our guys every day. Russia gave up because they couldn't beat 'em either.


----------



## whitehunter2

skybolt said:


> The "goat ropers" are killing our guys every day. Russia gave up because they couldn't beat 'em either.


America or Russia could level any one of the troublesome sand lots over in the middle east in a real war, but we are no longer a country that fights real wars, we just wage police actions in the name of keeping our homeland safe, or so they say??
we have been one of the most feared and powerfull nations on the planet for decades, hardley the blink of an eye in the history of empires and monarchies in the recent past, say 500 years. 
we now face an enemy we really can't beat, sending troops to Afganistan is a joke, our enemy is everywhere.
the good news is that they will probably never be organized enough to ever really destroy our country, yea they can bomb us, fly planes into buildings but they will never conquer or occupy us, this will be done by our own government.


----------



## skybolt

whitehunter2 said:


> America or Russia could level any one of the troublesome sand lots over in the middle east in a real war, but we are no longer a country that fights real wars, we just wage police actions in the name of keeping our homeland safe, or so they say??
> we have been one of the most feared and powerfull nations on the planet for decades, hardley the blink of an eye in the history of empires and monarchies in the recent past, say 500 years.
> we now face an enemy we really can't beat, sending troops to Afganistan is a joke, our enemy is everywhere.
> the good news is that they will probably never be organized enough to ever really destroy our country, yea they can bomb us, fly planes into buildings but they will never conquer or occupy us, this will be done by our own government.


So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? It is unconstitutional to use our military against the citizenry of the US. We would be everywhere also. I refuse to live in a police state and would choose to die first.


----------



## jna329

BarneySlayer said:


> Consider that half of eligible voters don't even bother...
> 
> Would you really want to fight our own troops? That would suck.
> 
> How many would actually want to take on ATF, let alone the army...
> 
> And why alcohol, tobacco, and fire arms in one agency?
> 
> Weird.


fight our own troops???? this is where we become mistaken. If there is another civil war it will be fought different than what you imagine. If it came to combat then I assure you that there are soldiers that would do there appointed jobs and then there are those that would stand for what they feel is right and just. I know several people from different branches that agree the current government is corrupt and need to be stopped with any means necessary. Soldiers are people too and they are just as fed up as most of us. Some are a little more than most of us. 



rcgerchow said:


> Maybe politicians have forgotten this:
> "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."


This is the answer. This is what needs to happen. Our government needs to realize that we actually do have the power. People just need to be willing to sacrifice and stand up for there rights and beliefs.


----------



## jna329

AR_Headhunter said:


> No government is ever to powerful when it comes to a determined people. JMHO


So glad I found this discussion. Thanks for the opportunity to bring light to a subject that is long overdue for discussion and even longer overdue for action. I must say that what I have quoted from you is not just your opinion. rcgerchow hit it on the head as well as a couple of others. It is not opinion it is fact. Our government is not too powerful. We have the power - the people just need to be educated and quit standing by doing nothing while we are being dragged to hell. 

Everyone talks about the war on terror. Have they actually looked to see what our own government has done to us. They terrorize us with taxes, Punish us for working hard, Threaten us with B.S. legislation, and force us to conform to there idea society. People like us keep struggling to get by and the government keeps spending our money on ***** we dont agree with. They push ideas on us saying its for our own good and then right laws stating that they dont have to abide by the same rules. 
An uprising is long overdue and I for one am glad to be in the fight and I will die happy knowing that I stood up for my rights and the rights of all of you. whether you agree with me or not I still try to do right for all. 

The first step is easy guys and gals. Contact your local,state, and federal officials. Explain to them your ideals and let them know that you are not alone in these ideals. Then make sure they understand that YOU helped get them their jobs and YOU can make sure they dont keep their jobs. Make your voice heard in 2010 elections. These are the starting points. 

What some of you dont understand is that this is already a "Civil" war. It is just being fought in a different manner; for the moment.


----------



## XSTREEMCC

skybolt said:


> So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? It is unconstitutional to use our military against the citizenry of the US. We would be everywhere also. I refuse to live in a police state and would choose to die first.


I concur we most defiantly need a political oust we have no choice but to prepare and arm ourselves and be ready and hope for the best. It is time to stand up and be men again not what the media and government construe as men because they would love to have us all passive and non aggressive they allow our children to be taken from us in separations and divorces and tell us to shut up and pay our child support and be glad we have what we do. This is a rant I shall not go into other than your rights are being swept from under you every day and some one is thinking of new ways to do it every minute.


----------



## BarneySlayer

jna329 said:


> The first step is easy guys and gals. Contact your local,state, and federal officials. Explain to them your ideals and let them know that you are not alone in these ideals. Then make sure they understand that YOU helped get them their jobs and YOU can make sure they dont keep their jobs. Make your voice heard in 2010 elections. These are the starting points.
> 
> What some of you dont understand is that this is already a "Civil" war. It is just being fought in a different manner; for the moment.


I guess if you can define war as already starting without violence, then it can indeed be "civil", in a non-civilian kind of way 

If people would get motivated enough to just vote, and be vocal. Not just loud, but actually in numbers, I agree things can be done, but it's way up hill. We've got to talk a lot louder, and in larger numbers, than those who can dump many thousands of dollars into campaign contributions in exchange for a few minutes of conversation.

It's a novel idea, getting a democratic process to work for the people it's supposed to serve


----------



## jna329

BarneySlayer said:


> I guess if you can define war as already starting without violence, then it can indeed be "civil", in a non-civilian kind of way
> 
> If people would get motivated enough to just vote, and be vocal. Not just loud, but actually in numbers, I agree things can be done, but it's way up hill. We've got to talk a lot louder, and in larger numbers, than those who can dump many thousands of dollars into campaign contributions in exchange for a few minutes of conversation.
> 
> It's a novel idea, getting a democratic process to work for the people it's supposed to serve


It can be as "civil" as we allow. When "civil" no longer works then its time for more agressive tactics. 

It is an uphill battle. The longer "we" sit and ***** about it without action, the larger that hill gets. I have in no way implied that it will or would be easy. It will take hard work and sacrifices but I assure you-we do not want the outcome to be left in someone elses hands. 

The democratic process is a novel idea in itself. We have to start somewhere. If we started by running out and beating the **** out of everyone that disagreed then we would be labeled as radicals and no person would listen. So, try to fight with a little dignity and when that doesnt work-move to something more extreme. 

I assure you all - we can make a difference.


----------



## 20ftup

whitehunter2 said:


> i see a few mention a civil war or a revolution against the US GOVyou do realize unless you get the United States Armed Forces behind you in your civil war/revolution you and your intire family would more than likely die right or maybe once the shooting REALLY starts yawl would change your minds and run back into your houses and watch the news to see how that Revolution is going out there!!
> 
> see how silly this all sounds when you really look at it. yelling at your congressmen at the local elks hall is not a revolution.
> 
> we Americans are too fat and happy for a real Gov overthrow like some of you all are talking about, so until then we are just going to have to stick to the current way of doing things. Sorry.


Seems like our military is one step ahead of most they are already planning 
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/


----------



## AR_Headhunter

To me it all really comes down to 1 choice. Would you die to provide a better life for all Americans? I know for 1 I would. Our forefathers made sacrifices so we could live as free men & IMO if your not willing to do the same then perhaps you should move to another country where people do not value freedom the way Americans do.


----------



## whitehunter2

BarneySlayer said:


> I guess if you can define war as already starting without violence, then it can indeed be "civil", in a non-civilian kind of way
> 
> If people would get motivated enough to just vote, and be vocal. Not just loud, but actually in numbers, I agree things can be done, but it's way up hill. We've got to talk a lot louder, and in larger numbers, than those who can dump many thousands of dollars into campaign contributions in exchange for a few minutes of conversation.
> 
> It's a novel idea, getting a democratic process to work for the people it's supposed to serve


thats how Obama got elected, people finally stood up and gave the republicans the boot, the same will happen with the Dems, then the same thing will happen again, and again, and again, it's the government see saw effect, you go up and you go down but you never really get anyplace


----------



## whitehunter2

AR_Headhunter said:


> To me it all really comes down to 1 choice. Would you die to provide a better life for all Americans? I know for 1 I would. Our forefathers made sacrifices so we could live as free men & IMO if your not willing to do the same then perhaps you should move to another country where people do not value freedom the way Americans do.


problem is not many or should i say not enough Americans are ready to die, most Americans still have the highest quality of life on the planet, yea some other countries are coming close but we still have it the best. and with the gov as big as it is with the huge growth it's had in the last 25 years you have a huge % of people collecting nice intitlements in the way of pensions, pay and all that, do you think these people are all going to give this up to die for their country? 
if your ready to die you will more than likely die alone or with a very small group of your buds, then all the news networks would portray you as some lunitic, white supremacist or anti gov group who just went nutz with a group of his friends and you won't even go down in history as being a hero who tried to save his country? look at Wako, ruby ridge, Timothy Mcvee, these people have all ended up as dirty little smudges in the pages of American history.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

whitehunter2 said:


> problem is not many or should i say not enough Americans are ready to die, most Americans still have the highest quality of life on the planet, yea some other countries are coming close but we still have it the best. and with the gov as big as it is with the huge growth it's had in the last 25 years you have a huge % of people collecting nice intitlements in the way of pensions, pay and all that, do you think these people are all going to give this up to die for their country?
> if your ready to die you will more than likely die alone or with a very small group of your buds, then all the news networks would portray you as some lunitic, white supremacist or anti gov group who just went nutz with a group of his friends and you won't even go down in history as being a hero who tried to save his country? *look at Wako, ruby ridge, Timothy Mcvee, these people have all ended up as dirty little smudges in the pages of American history*.


Waco was a joke! As far as the massacre at Ruby Ridge. There should have been law enforcement doing serious time for that ****** up mess. As for Timothy Mcvee, what he did was a act of war & not a act of terrorism. He attacked the federal government. I would love to see a peaceful resolution to the mess we are currently in but if it goes the way of warfare then I will fight. I'll fight the type of fight that I can win. It will not be conventional warfare but look at Viet Nam & Afghanistan. Seems our government does not really know how to deal with a determined people who understand the power of guerrilla warfare.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

whitehunter2,
You might want to read this. 

The NSSF estimates that there are 20.6 million active hunters in the United States. That is not including all the other armed unorganized ********.

Now by comparision there are over 1.3 million men and women on active duty, and another 1.1 million serve in the National Guard and Reserve forces.

Don't mean to make you mad but if our armed forces cant deal with the Taliban then what in the world makes you think they could deal with all the "armed ********" in the US.

More food for thought. A little long, but very interesting.

ARMED REVOLUTION POSSIBLE AND NOT SO DIFFICULT
By Bill Bridgewater

The only "newsies" that I have ever met that I didn't believe wasted oxygen by breathing were Dickey Chappell and Bernie Fall, both of whom were killed in Viet Nam because they believed that you couldn't report battles in the field from a bar in Saigon.

It is not easy to admit that a newsie stopped me cold the other day in the middle of one of their silly interviews. He had asked me to enumerate the reasons that I believed to be valid to support the private ownership of firearms.

We did not disagree over personal protection; he even admitted that hunting is legal in every state. But, when I stated that I believed that the founding fathers intended that we be armed against the possibility of our own central government overstepping its bounds, he quite bluntly asked me if I thought that an armed American citizenry had a snowball's chance in hell in an uprising against our own federal government.

Now, when was the last time you put some really serious thought into that proposition? Not counting the slaughter of the American Indians, we have not seen a serious effort to pit Americans against Americans since the end of the War Between the States that ended 130 years ago.

Is there even a shred of possibility that an armed citizenry could succeed against the strongest military power on Earth today?

Perhaps we should review the years 1960-1975 again. The United States blindly stuck its oar in the muddied waters of Viet Nam very shortly after the French got their heads handed to them on a platter and were invited not to be a colonial power in Viet Nam any more.

Finally, we found ourselves in the position of guaranteeing the survival of an independent South Viet Nam when the Northern part of the country made it clear that they were interested in reuniting the country under their particular brand of socialism.

For a decade and a half, we changed the leadership of South Viet Nam quite regularly; increased the pressure on the Johnson thumbscrews; bombed, quit, bombed, quit, ad infinitum; quantified the war; and finally turned it into an electronic war. At home we kept telling the citizens that we were just about to win decisively and elected another president to drive crazy with this goofy little war.

Finally the president declared that all was over and the troops could come home.

But they did not return home in triumph with the bugles blaring. They came home with their tails between their legs just like every other defeated army in the history of the world. And the reason that they did so, my friends, was that the world's most powerful nation got its backside severely whipped by a small, backward, agrarian nation who started the war against us with an assortment of ancient bolt-action rifles, no lines of support, no manufacturing base, and no infrastructure that the country absolutely depended upon.

It is not a joke that they made sandals from cut-up truck tires - it's the truth. They fought the only kind of war they could hope to fight and win successfully - a guerrilla war.

They had two good models: the American colonies against the British in our war for independence, and the American Indian wars, where the value of slash-and-run against a superior foe was escalated to a fine art by the world's finest light cavalry.

Twice the North Vietnamese allowed themselves to be suckered into main force set-piece battles, and they got cut into ribbons for doing it. Otherwise, they stuck to General Giap's plan of guerrilla warfare to the finish.

The North finally *did* get to mass their troops and tanks during their final sweep to victory into Saigon.

Why did this happen? Why did the world's most powerful nation get its teeth kicked in and sent home in disgrace? Because we forgot our very own origins! We forgot that we were the ones who hid behind logs, berms, and bushes and shot British troops and their mercenaries as *targets of opportunity* while denying our opponents a target of any kind.

We used the skills of the mountain and plains Indians against an Army that was trained in only one form of combat. We refused to engage in the British methods of combat until we had superior forces and the odds were highly in our favor.

General Vo Nuyen Giap did exactly the same thing against us in the 1960s and 1970s while we used our superior firepower and technology to create ten million deaf monkeys and water buffalo. We defoliated tens of thousands of acres of jungle forest to prove that Giap's troops weren't there. We constructed every kind of trap known to mankind to capture and destroy divisions of enemy troops where there weren't any.

We very patiently fought a European theater-type of warfare against a steadfast foe who fought a completely different kind of war that simply made our complex weapons systems useless. By inflexibly insisting on doing it our way, we lost the whole shooting match to a man who played it his way and won.

Meanwhile, on the exact opposite side of the globe, another shooting match was gearing up that pitted the second most powerful nation in the world against an enemy whose armament consisted of ancient bolt-action rifles, who had no lines of support, no manufacturing base and no infrastructure that the nation depended upon.

Though the Russians were determined that *they* would not be sent home with their tails between their legs, the Afghans were paying particular attention to those tactics that had worked so well for General Giap against the American forces. Even with the advantage of being able to totally ignore world opinion and to essentially ignore the opinions of its own citizens, Russia followed us down the long winding trail to disgrace by doing exactly what we had done in Viet Nam.

High-ranking politicians (some of them in uniform), with absolutely no idea what was going on in the day-to-day conduct of both wars, made stupid decisions and then stuck by them despite advice to the contrary from both American and Russian on-scene commanders.

The Russian methods of combat - mass maneuver and firepower - that were developed against Napoleon and Hitler proved no more successful than our methods against an aggressively waged guerrilla war.

Both major enemies failed to fight the enemy that they faced. Both, in fact, fought an historical enemy who was not present on the field of battle. Both of these superior armies truly believed that superior strength and technical abilities would win the day. Both major armies believed that time was on their side and was working against their foe. Both were totally wrong because they underestimated the growing dislike of the supposedly neutral or "friendly" indigenous forces whose cities, villages, towns and homes were being destroyed by the ongoing flow of large-scale battles by the two major armies.

Whatever the levels of dispute between the Vietnamese, the American forces eventually became the common enemy simply because of the massive damage they were doing in behalf of the south. Exactly the same thing transpired in Afghanistan. The Russians became the common enemy and went home in defeat.

Our armed forces used everything in our weapons inventory in our effort to win except nuclear devices. So did the Russians. They even used some chemical weapons that we didn't try.

What does all this have to do with the question the newsy asked me? Everything.

A revolution could be waged against the current American government far easier than you might imagine without careful examination. Consider:

* The sheer numbers of firearms of all kinds in the hands of the American public would have made the American commanders in Viet Nam quake in their boots. We're not talking junk equipment here, either. The average deer hunter with a .270 or .308 could give a platoon of regular troops more grief than they want. There was a special on the tube recently about military armaments on sale in the black market (including Stingers).

* The population base from which revolutionaries could be recruited is *massive* - 250 million.

* There are literally millions of well-trained men who served as officers and NCOs who learned face-to-face how guerrilla warfare works. They haven't forgotten it, either.

* There are millions of young men out there with military training and experience with weapons of every conceivable kind, who would make top-quality guerrilla troops.

* Every one of the 100 counties in the state of North Carolina could field at least one full company that would be formidable in capability. If one assumes that North Carolina is no more capable than other states, that could amount to 180 divisions. These potential rebel troops would be fast-moving light infantry, with the capability of melting into the general population when necessary.

American military leaders would be in the position of having an inventory of high-tech weapons that they would be dependent upon your son or nephew to use against you. There would be no enemy states in which you could say that any weapon could be used against the rebels. They would be from each and every state and major city.

By the same token, there would be no sanctuary for the federal troops anywhere in the land. No matter where stationed, they would be subject to attack and harassment. The infrastructure on which the federal government depends would be rather easily disrupted by those who live there. Airfields and major lines of communications could be shut down and kept down for days at a time. Disruption of supplies to major bases and to centers of government would be simple. You don't have to cut them off, just keep them hungry.

The federal government would be denied the use of all their major weaponry because they would still "own" the cities and villages. How do you justify bombing your own city just because there is a rebel company in it? One bombing would be the biggest recruiting drive ever for the rebel forces.

Now just how powerful do those 12 Army divisions and those three Marine divisions really look to you? Just how scary is the Air Force against America? What will the Navy do, shell all coastal cities? I don't think so.

One of these days a truly charismatic individual is going to walk out of the heartland of America and point out that the Declaration of Independence has never been repealed and that it *requires* all citizens to rise up against an oppressive government. With the current attitude toward our government and the people who populate it, a massive groundswell of support for throwing the current crop to the dogs and starting over again might not be so difficult.

As for the *ability* of the American citizens to successfully wage a guerrilla war on their own government, the likes of which this world has never seen nor contemplated before, I am absolutely convinced that it could be done, and a lot more swiftly than many might believe possible. How many highly-capable long-range snipers can your county put together?

Reprinted in "The Bullet Trap" by permission from Bill Bridgewater, "Alliance Voice", August 1994
http://www.lizmichael.com/armedrev.htm


----------



## skybolt

whitehunter2 said:


> thats how Obama got elected, people finally stood up and gave the republicans the boot, the same will happen with the Dems, then the same thing will happen again, and again, and again, it's the government see saw effect, you go up and you go down but you never really get anyplace


I agree, this will continue until there is a well funded, competent 3rd party effort. Sounds like it could finally happen. You can only push free people so far.


----------



## whitehunter2

AR_Headhunter said:


> whitehunter2,
> You might want to read this.
> 
> The NSSF estimates that there are 20.6 million active hunters in the United States. That is not including all the other armed unorganized ********.
> 
> Now by comparision there are over 1.3 million men and women on active duty, and another 1.1 million serve in the National Guard and Reserve forces.
> 
> Don't mean to make you mad but if our armed forces cant deal with the Taliban then what in the world makes you think they could deal with all the "armed ********" in the US.
> 
> More food for thought. A little long, but very interesting.
> 
> ARMED REVOLUTION POSSIBLE AND NOT SO DIFFICULT
> By Bill Bridgewater
> 
> The only "newsies" that I have ever met that I didn't believe wasted oxygen by breathing were Dickey Chappell and Bernie Fall, both of whom were killed in Viet Nam because they believed that you couldn't report battles in the field from a bar in Saigon.
> 
> It is not easy to admit that a newsie stopped me cold the other day in the middle of one of their silly interviews. He had asked me to enumerate the reasons that I believed to be valid to support the private ownership of firearms.
> 
> We did not disagree over personal protection; he even admitted that hunting is legal in every state. But, when I stated that I believed that the founding fathers intended that we be armed against the possibility of our own central government overstepping its bounds, he quite bluntly asked me if I thought that an armed American citizenry had a snowball's chance in hell in an uprising against our own federal government.
> 
> Now, when was the last time you put some really serious thought into that proposition? Not counting the slaughter of the American Indians, we have not seen a serious effort to pit Americans against Americans since the end of the War Between the States that ended 130 years ago.
> 
> Is there even a shred of possibility that an armed citizenry could succeed against the strongest military power on Earth today?
> 
> Perhaps we should review the years 1960-1975 again. The United States blindly stuck its oar in the muddied waters of Viet Nam very shortly after the French got their heads handed to them on a platter and were invited not to be a colonial power in Viet Nam any more.
> 
> Finally, we found ourselves in the position of guaranteeing the survival of an independent South Viet Nam when the Northern part of the country made it clear that they were interested in reuniting the country under their particular brand of socialism.
> 
> For a decade and a half, we changed the leadership of South Viet Nam quite regularly; increased the pressure on the Johnson thumbscrews; bombed, quit, bombed, quit, ad infinitum; quantified the war; and finally turned it into an electronic war. At home we kept telling the citizens that we were just about to win decisively and elected another president to drive crazy with this goofy little war.
> 
> Finally the president declared that all was over and the troops could come home.
> 
> But they did not return home in triumph with the bugles blaring. They came home with their tails between their legs just like every other defeated army in the history of the world. And the reason that they did so, my friends, was that the world's most powerful nation got its backside severely whipped by a small, backward, agrarian nation who started the war against us with an assortment of ancient bolt-action rifles, no lines of support, no manufacturing base, and no infrastructure that the country absolutely depended upon.
> 
> It is not a joke that they made sandals from cut-up truck tires - it's the truth. They fought the only kind of war they could hope to fight and win successfully - a guerrilla war.
> 
> They had two good models: the American colonies against the British in our war for independence, and the American Indian wars, where the value of slash-and-run against a superior foe was escalated to a fine art by the world's finest light cavalry.
> 
> Twice the North Vietnamese allowed themselves to be suckered into main force set-piece battles, and they got cut into ribbons for doing it. Otherwise, they stuck to General Giap's plan of guerrilla warfare to the finish.
> 
> The North finally *did* get to mass their troops and tanks during their final sweep to victory into Saigon.
> 
> Why did this happen? Why did the world's most powerful nation get its teeth kicked in and sent home in disgrace? Because we forgot our very own origins! We forgot that we were the ones who hid behind logs, berms, and bushes and shot British troops and their mercenaries as *targets of opportunity* while denying our opponents a target of any kind.
> 
> We used the skills of the mountain and plains Indians against an Army that was trained in only one form of combat. We refused to engage in the British methods of combat until we had superior forces and the odds were highly in our favor.
> 
> General Vo Nuyen Giap did exactly the same thing against us in the 1960s and 1970s while we used our superior firepower and technology to create ten million deaf monkeys and water buffalo. We defoliated tens of thousands of acres of jungle forest to prove that Giap's troops weren't there. We constructed every kind of trap known to mankind to capture and destroy divisions of enemy troops where there weren't any.
> 
> We very patiently fought a European theater-type of warfare against a steadfast foe who fought a completely different kind of war that simply made our complex weapons systems useless. By inflexibly insisting on doing it our way, we lost the whole shooting match to a man who played it his way and won.
> 
> Meanwhile, on the exact opposite side of the globe, another shooting match was gearing up that pitted the second most powerful nation in the world against an enemy whose armament consisted of ancient bolt-action rifles, who had no lines of support, no manufacturing base and no infrastructure that the nation depended upon.
> 
> Though the Russians were determined that *they* would not be sent home with their tails between their legs, the Afghans were paying particular attention to those tactics that had worked so well for General Giap against the American forces. Even with the advantage of being able to totally ignore world opinion and to essentially ignore the opinions of its own citizens, Russia followed us down the long winding trail to disgrace by doing exactly what we had done in Viet Nam.
> 
> High-ranking politicians (some of them in uniform), with absolutely no idea what was going on in the day-to-day conduct of both wars, made stupid decisions and then stuck by them despite advice to the contrary from both American and Russian on-scene commanders.
> 
> The Russian methods of combat - mass maneuver and firepower - that were developed against Napoleon and Hitler proved no more successful than our methods against an aggressively waged guerrilla war.
> 
> Both major enemies failed to fight the enemy that they faced. Both, in fact, fought an historical enemy who was not present on the field of battle. Both of these superior armies truly believed that superior strength and technical abilities would win the day. Both major armies believed that time was on their side and was working against their foe. Both were totally wrong because they underestimated the growing dislike of the supposedly neutral or "friendly" indigenous forces whose cities, villages, towns and homes were being destroyed by the ongoing flow of large-scale battles by the two major armies.
> 
> Whatever the levels of dispute between the Vietnamese, the American forces eventually became the common enemy simply because of the massive damage they were doing in behalf of the south. Exactly the same thing transpired in Afghanistan. The Russians became the common enemy and went home in defeat.
> 
> Our armed forces used everything in our weapons inventory in our effort to win except nuclear devices. So did the Russians. They even used some chemical weapons that we didn't try.
> 
> What does all this have to do with the question the newsy asked me? Everything.
> 
> A revolution could be waged against the current American government far easier than you might imagine without careful examination. Consider:
> 
> * The sheer numbers of firearms of all kinds in the hands of the American public would have made the American commanders in Viet Nam quake in their boots. We're not talking junk equipment here, either. The average deer hunter with a .270 or .308 could give a platoon of regular troops more grief than they want. There was a special on the tube recently about military armaments on sale in the black market (including Stingers).
> 
> * The population base from which revolutionaries could be recruited is *massive* - 250 million.
> 
> * There are literally millions of well-trained men who served as officers and NCOs who learned face-to-face how guerrilla warfare works. They haven't forgotten it, either.
> 
> * There are millions of young men out there with military training and experience with weapons of every conceivable kind, who would make top-quality guerrilla troops.
> 
> * Every one of the 100 counties in the state of North Carolina could field at least one full company that would be formidable in capability. If one assumes that North Carolina is no more capable than other states, that could amount to 180 divisions. These potential rebel troops would be fast-moving light infantry, with the capability of melting into the general population when necessary.
> 
> American military leaders would be in the position of having an inventory of high-tech weapons that they would be dependent upon your son or nephew to use against you. There would be no enemy states in which you could say that any weapon could be used against the rebels. They would be from each and every state and major city.
> 
> By the same token, there would be no sanctuary for the federal troops anywhere in the land. No matter where stationed, they would be subject to attack and harassment. The infrastructure on which the federal government depends would be rather easily disrupted by those who live there. Airfields and major lines of communications could be shut down and kept down for days at a time. Disruption of supplies to major bases and to centers of government would be simple. You don't have to cut them off, just keep them hungry.
> 
> The federal government would be denied the use of all their major weaponry because they would still "own" the cities and villages. How do you justify bombing your own city just because there is a rebel company in it? One bombing would be the biggest recruiting drive ever for the rebel forces.
> 
> Now just how powerful do those 12 Army divisions and those three Marine divisions really look to you? Just how scary is the Air Force against America? What will the Navy do, shell all coastal cities? I don't think so.
> 
> One of these days a truly charismatic individual is going to walk out of the heartland of America and point out that the Declaration of Independence has never been repealed and that it *requires* all citizens to rise up against an oppressive government. With the current attitude toward our government and the people who populate it, a massive groundswell of support for throwing the current crop to the dogs and starting over again might not be so difficult.
> 
> As for the *ability* of the American citizens to successfully wage a guerrilla war on their own government, the likes of which this world has never seen nor contemplated before, I am absolutely convinced that it could be done, and a lot more swiftly than many might believe possible. How many highly-capable long-range snipers can your county put together?
> 
> Reprinted in "The Bullet Trap" by permission from Bill Bridgewater, "Alliance Voice", August 1994
> http://www.lizmichael.com/armedrev.htm


some good reading...


----------



## hoodedmonk

If you look at the countries of recent Afganistan Vietnam, and even Africa that have all been experiencing civil war How many of them are any better off than they were in the first place? I work with several Vietnamese Two of witch were soldiers for the south and one for the north. and the reason? They will all tell you America is a far better place to raise your kids. Even today's America. I'm sure Americans could wage one hell of a gurrialla war on itself but why? What would the results be? Africa? Vietnam or Afganistan maybe. Do you really think for a moment that The revolutionaries would just step in there and give the government a what for, and are children would live as are for fathers did? Save ur bullets for hunting season guys, and don't forget to vote this year!:wink:


----------



## jna329

AR_Headhunter said:


> Waco was a joke! As far as the massacre at Ruby Ridge. There should have been law enforcement doing serious time for that ****** up mess. As for Timothy Mcvee, what he did was a act of war & not a act of terrorism. He attacked the federal government. I would love to see a peaceful resolution to the mess we are currently in but if it goes the way of warfare then I will fight. I'll fight the type of fight that I can win. It will not be conventional warfare but look at Viet Nam & Afghanistan. Seems our government does not really know how to deal with a determined people who understand the power of guerrilla warfare.


Absolutely! Try to be peaceful and when that doesnt work - change tactics.


----------



## jna329

hoodedmonk said:


> If you look at the countries of recent Afganistan Vietnam, and even Africa that have all been experiencing civil war How many of them are any better off than they were in the first place? I work with several Vietnamese Two of witch were soldiers for the south and one for the north. and the reason? They will all tell you America is a far better place to raise your kids. Even today's America. I'm sure Americans could wage one hell of a gurrialla war on itself but why? What would the results be? Africa? Vietnam or Afganistan maybe. Do you really think for a moment that The revolutionaries would just step in there and give the government a what for, and are children would live as are for fathers did? Save ur bullets for hunting season guys, and don't forget to vote this year!:wink:


Dont forget to vote!! that is a start. Let the government know that you disagree with their bs. Let your voice be heard. If that doesnt sway the government from screwing us over then proceed with more extreme action. 

The story headhunter has posted is not just a story - it can be a reality in no time at all. Everyone wants to have a say but gives up if no one listens. Well, its time to make them listen. If you dont want to see guerilla warfare in your hometowns then stand up and do the right things.

For all of you that keep saying that most people are too happy with their lives to fight, or our country is still better than anywhere else. I say to you -first you are right that our country is better- it is that way because of sacrifice. That is why we must stop the bs agenda of our current "government" before they destroy our country. The path this country is on will not lead to a pleasant end for the majority.


----------



## Christopher67

I'm Not Ted said:


> And the Conservatives have been any better to Obama? Only 9 month's into his presidency?



Can you please point me in the direction of any politician thats remotely conservative these days. Please don't say George W Bush Haha! ukey:


----------



## Christopher67

20ftup said:


> Seems like our military is one step ahead of most they are already planning
> http://oathkeepers.org/oath/



Thank you for that link. :wink::thumbs_up


----------



## whitehunter2

is this war still going on, you see thats the problem with us Americans we just can't agree on anything? we can just have a war trying to decide if we are going to have a war!:cocktail:


----------



## skybolt

whitehunter2 said:


> is this war still going on, you see thats the problem with us Americans we just can't agree on anything? we can just have a war trying to decide if we are going to have a war!:cocktail:


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## Christopher67

whitehunter2 said:


> is this war still going on, you see thats the problem with us Americans we just can't agree on anything? we can just have a war trying to decide if we are going to have a war!:cocktail:



That does it, im going to buy a Hoyt ! :tongue:


----------



## AR_Headhunter

whitehunter2 said:


> is this war still going on, you see thats the problem with us Americans we just can't agree on anything? we can just have a war trying to decide if we are going to have a war!:cocktail:


Some are arguing about it but some of us already know where we stand....


----------



## jna329

AR_Headhunter said:


> Some are arguing about it but some of us already know where we stand....


AMEN!!!!!!! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## IChim2

All of this is interesting.....but the bottom line....this country is in trouble.Not enough good paying jobs for families who want to work and also be able to afford health care.There's a lot of issues i care about but take good paying jobs away....and you've broken the back bone of what made this country great.Good paying factory jobs have left my area but every where you look you see a new fast food joint going in...great if your a kid living at home...but would hate to try to make a living working at one of those.Several of my friends have lost their good paying jobs due to closings.Blame it on who ever is in office now or before......but i don't see the next choice who ever it may be....waving a magic wand and making it better.We all want to sit back and point fingers at who ever is in office....and even though we can vote for who ever......the power players will decide how this country is run.....and you,i and a lot of others will just be ants in an ant farm with someone playing God looking at us.


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

IChim2 said:


> All of this is interesting.....but the bottom line....this country is in trouble.Not enough good paying jobs for families who want to work and also be able to afford health care.There's a lot of issues i care about but take good paying jobs away....and you've broken the back bone of what made this country great.Good paying factory jobs have left my area but every where you look you see a new fast food joint going in...great if your a kid living at home...but would hate to try to make a living working at one of those.Several of my friends have lost their good paying jobs due to closings.Blame it on who ever is in office now or before......but i don't see the next choice who ever it may be....waving a magic wand and making it better.We all want to sit back and point fingers at who ever is in office....and even though we can vote for who ever......the power players will decide how this country is run.....and you,i and a lot of others will just be ants in an ant farm with someone playing God looking at us.


Amen, Brother!


----------



## jna329

IChim2 said:


> Blame it on who ever is in office now or before......but i don't see the next choice who ever it may be....waving a magic wand and making it better.We all want to sit back and point fingers at who ever is in office....and even though we can vote for who ever......the power players will decide how this country is run.....and you,i and a lot of others will just be ants in an ant farm with someone playing God looking at us.


You made a good point till you said this. It wont fix over night, but playing the ant only allows someone else to make your decisions. That is not the way this country was/is meant to be. I say stand up for yourself and others and do what you can to make a difference. At least that way you can sleep at night knowing that you have opposed the wrongs and stood for the good of the country. I do agree that the next choice may not be able to fix it all but at least he/she will replace one of the problems. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the US is being trampled on by those in power in the House, Senate, and especially the White House. It is time to put a stop to this before WE lose the ability to be civil and decent to each other.


----------



## IChim2

jna329 said:


> You made a good point till you said this. It wont fix over night, but playing the ant only allows someone else to make your decisions. That is not the way this country was/is meant to be. I say stand up for yourself and others and do what you can to make a difference. At least that way you can sleep at night knowing that you have opposed the wrongs and stood for the good of the country. I do agree that the next choice may not be able to fix it all but at least he/she will replace one of the problems. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the US is being trampled on by those in power in the House, Senate, and especially the White House. It is time to put a stop to this before WE lose the ability to be civil and decent to each other.


Really didn't say....fix over night.....i said wave a magic wand.How do you think it can be fixed ?.If americans stay within the laws.....all we can do is vote....which goes back to the power players running this country...the way it's been.....or....we can for get the laws......and take matters in our own hands.A lot of wrong doing has went on in the past 9 yrs because the ball has been dropped to many times.Our jobs have been out sourced to cheaper labor across the sea's and nothing here for the working man anymore.Being rich and power is great.....but who in the hell thinks are the ones who bilt their homes,cars,office,schools...etc....the working man......the one's who actually get their hands dirty.....in the right way.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

I used to work for Georgia Pacific. My job was eliminated with the downturn in the economy & I've sense been self employed doing ceramic tile, home renovations, & various projects for a variety of clients. As things get worse things get slower & slower. There was a time in this country where any hard working person with skills was highly looked for. Now it does not matter how hard you work or how skilled you are if your a trades person. decent jobs are just not out there. I used to make $18+ a hour. Now you can't get a decent trade job at half that amount. 

Working Americans, The people who made this country great, are sick & tired of the BS. Take that any way you want but it's the truth!


----------



## corpralbarn

rcgerchow said:


> Maybe politicians have forgotten this:
> "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."


Which means all these laws that are passed without our knowledge should be illegal.


----------



## 1HoytRedneck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C9CH3q9PLI


----------



## jna329

IChim2 said:


> Really didn't say....fix over night.....i said wave a magic wand.How do you think it can be fixed ?.If americans stay within the laws.....all we can do is vote....which goes back to the power players running this country...the way it's been.....or....we can for get the laws......and take matters in our own hands.A lot of wrong doing has went on in the past 9 yrs because the ball has been dropped to many times.Our jobs have been out sourced to cheaper labor across the sea's and nothing here for the working man anymore.Being rich and power is great.....but who in the hell thinks are the ones who bilt their homes,cars,office,schools...etc....the working man......the one's who actually get their hands dirty.....in the right way.


You are correct. The ball has been dropped too many times. It will take time to fix and a lot of sacrifices on everyones part. I agree the rich and power are pushing the buttons but it is time to let them know that we will no longer stand by while they ruin the future of this country. You say stay within the law - I agree as long as the law protects me and you. when it goes against my faith, my families well-being, or the laws this country was founded on, then I say to hell with the law. I have no interest in abiding by an unconstitutional law, regardless of what powerful person is supporting. That is part of the problem. For too long, the people have sat back and let the government get out of control. They all say the same thing. "We cant do anything because they are to rich and powerful." That is BS. We made them and we can break them. 

Start by voting. Get educated on groups in your area that have common a common goal. Stand behind your beliefs. Get organized with others and educate yourself on both sides of the problem. 

If I came to your house and threatened you -what would you do? If I came to your house and threatened your family- what would you do? Well guess what the government has came into all of our homes in some way or another and threatened us and our families. I dont care whether you think it can be fixed or not , it is a war and I for one am fighting.


----------



## wvbearman

jna329 said:


> You are correct. The ball has been dropped too many times. It will take time to fix and a lot of sacrifices on everyones part. I agree the rich and power are pushing the buttons but it is time to let them know that we will no longer stand by while they ruin the future of this country. You say stay within the law - I agree as long as the law protects me and you. when it goes against my faith, my families well-being, or the laws this country was founded on, then I say to hell with the law. I have no interest in abiding by an unconstitutional law, regardless of what powerful person is supporting. That is part of the problem. For too long, the people have sat back and let the government get out of control. They all say the same thing. "We cant do anything because they are to rich and powerful." That is BS. We made them and we can break them.
> 
> Start by voting. Get educated on groups in your area that have common a common goal. Stand behind your beliefs. Get organized with others and educate yourself on both sides of the problem.
> 
> If I came to your house and threatened you -what would you do? If I came to your house and threatened your family- what would you do? Well guess what the government has came into all of our homes in some way or another and threatened us and our families. I dont care whether you think it can be fixed or not , it is a war and I for one am fighting.


Excellent post. Lucky for us... we are not the only ones who feel this way.


----------



## corpralbarn

We need a couble of ******** in congress!!!!!!!!


----------



## AR_Headhunter

corpralbarn said:


> We need a couble of ******** in congress!!!!!!!!


No, we need a congress full of ********!


----------



## corpralbarn

535
---- = 267.5 so we need 268 ******** and then we will be good!
2


----------



## jna329

ar_headhunter said:


> no, we need a congress full of ********!


amen!!!


----------



## 20ftup

junker said:


> get your head out of your @ss. it's not that bad out here.


dont know where your at but its pretty bad and gettin worse real quick


----------



## AR_Headhunter

jna329 said:


> amen!!!


:amen:!


----------



## Christopher67

AR_Headhunter said:


> :amen:!




Amen!! :thumbs_up


----------



## schuh

IChim2 said:


> All of this is interesting.....but the bottom line....this country is in trouble.Not enough good paying jobs for families who want to work and also be able to afford health care.There's a lot of issues i care about but take good paying jobs away....and you've broken the back bone of what made this country great.Good paying factory jobs have left my area but every where you look you see a new fast food joint going in...great if your a kid living at home...but would hate to try to make a living working at one of those.Several of my friends have lost their good paying jobs due to closings.Blame it on who ever is in office now or before......but i don't see the next choice who ever it may be....waving a magic wand and making it better.We all want to sit back and point fingers at who ever is in office....and even though we can vote for who ever......the power players will decide how this country is run.....and you,i and a lot of others will just be ants in an ant farm with someone playing God looking at us.


 Right on.Same thing is happening here with jobs.Buy American made products when possible.Every dollar you spend is supporting someone.Ask yourself who that someone is.I may not have as much as other people but it is something I can be proud to own.
Who is controlling the government?We the people or big corporations that contribute to campaigns?Who do they listen to more?
You vote with every dollar you spend.Vote for small business and the American people.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

schuh said:


> Right on.Same thing is happening here with jobs.Buy American made products when possible.Every dollar you spend is supporting someone.Ask yourself who that someone is.I may not have as much as other people but it is something I can be proud to own.
> Who is controlling the government?We the people or big corporations that contribute to campaigns?Who do they listen to more?
> You vote with every dollar you spend.Vote for small business and the American people.


:thumbs_up


----------



## readonly

Yep I can see it now. A bunch of ******** PO's because we have a black president rise up and quickly have there sorry arses smacked down.


----------



## jna329

readonly said:


> Yep I can see it now. A bunch of ******** PO's because we have a black president rise up and quickly have there sorry arses smacked down.


If this is truly what you think then you are part of the problem. I assure you it is all politicians and whomever else that doesnt want to abide by the Constitution and or Bill of Rights that we want gone. Its not just the president. I do want him removed as well but he is not the only problem facing all Americans today. My choices and decisions have no bearing on race. Apparently your ideals are based on race or you wouldnt have made that statement,and that makes you as racist as anyone here.


----------



## Christopher67

jna329 said:


> If this is truly what you think then you are part of the problem. I assure you it is all politicians and whomever else that doesnt want to abide by the Constitution and or Bill of Rights that we want gone. Its not just the president. I do want him removed as well but he is not the only problem facing all Americans today. My choices and decisions have no bearing on race. Apparently your ideals are based on race or you wouldnt have made that statement,and that makes you as racist as anyone here.



:thumbs_up:thumbs_up x2


----------



## AR_Headhunter

jna329 said:


> If this is truly what you think then you are part of the problem. I assure you it is all politicians and whomever else that doesnt want to abide by the Constitution and or Bill of Rights that we want gone. Its not just the president. I do want him removed as well but he is not the only problem facing all Americans today. My choices and decisions have no bearing on race. Apparently your ideals are based on race or you wouldnt have made that statement,and that makes you as racist as anyone here.


:thumbs_up:thumbs_upX1,000,000


----------



## IChim2

readonly said:


> Yep I can see it now. A bunch of ******** PO's because we have a black president rise up and quickly have there sorry arses smacked down.


I'm about as ******* as they come......but i have No problems with the color of our presidents skin.Our country was screwed long before he entered the picture.


----------



## Christopher67

IChim2 said:


> i have No problems with the color of our presidents skin.Our country was screwed long before he entered the picture.


Very true! :thumbs_up


----------



## corpralbarn

He would be fine if he was a Republican instead of a tree hugger who probably has never been hunting.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

corpralbarn said:


> He would be fine if he was a Republican instead of a tree hugger who probably has never been hunting.


Well if things keep going the way there are now he might get to experience hunting. As the quarry!


----------



## rocklocker2

*hunting rights*

I think the prez should have the right to go hunting with Chenney


----------



## corpralbarn

rocklocker2 said:


> I think the prez should have the right to go hunting with Chenney


yes he should!


----------



## AR_Headhunter

Would anyone object to Chenney using buckshot on the hunt?:teeth:


----------



## jna329

AR_Headhunter said:


> Well if things keep going the way there are now he might get to experience hunting. As the quarry!


that is hilarious!



rocklocker2 said:


> I think the prez should have the right to go hunting with Chenney


I would love to see it!


AR_Headhunter said:


> Would anyone object to Chenney using buckshot on the hunt?:teeth:


Buckshots fine by me. Hell I will take him hunting and show him the finer POINT of bowhunting; all he has to do is ask.:wink:


----------



## russell4214

Our for fathers fought because of the injustices that had taken place. Such as taxation and so on, if you look at our country and the way our gov treats its citizens, it is much like england treated the colonists. Just as it was then so it is now the poor man fights the rich mans war wile we die and get over taxed administrators gets richer,what a joke. I've lost a cousin and three of my good friend to this war and now they want to fight for another ten years I say we need change not that we need war that is what got us here in the first place. But we need a change our voice needs to matter again! I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS BUT NOT THE MEN WHO SEND THEM TO DIE


----------



## AR_Headhunter

As that old country song goes, You've got to stand for something. Well I stand for freedom. I did when I volenteered for the Army. I still remember & keep that oathe I took to defend or country against any threat, forien or domestic. Little did I know that 1 day I might be faced with the decisions we are today. I still love my country with a passion but I also hate our government with a bigger passion. Most will understand those words. I just hope when the time comes to fight that my brothers will head the call of patriotism.


----------



## IChim2

rocklocker2 said:


> I think the prez should have the right to go hunting with Chenney


He has more common sence than the last person who went hunting with him.:darkbeer:


----------



## Punch_Free4L

:faint2:


----------



## TPG

Since this is a civil war thread....

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-leader-arrested-rape

'Oath Keepers' Leader Arrested for Child Rape; Cops Find Stolen Grenade Launcher In His House
By David Neiwert Thursday Jan 21, 2010 6:00am

We first noticed Marine Sgt. Charles Dyer, aka "July4Patriot," back in March, when we ran one of the first reports on the "Oath Keepers" bloc of the Tea Party movement -- an organization devoted to recruiting military and police-force veterans into a Patriot-movement belief system predicated on a series of paranoid conspiracy theories, especially the notion that the federal government intends to begin rounding up citizens and putting them in concentration camps.

Dyer played a prominent role in connecting the Oath Keepers to the Tea Party movement, speaking at a July 4 Tea Party rally in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. And he's been involved in organizing militia "maneuvers" in Oklahoma.

Dyer cropped up again in the news -- this time in the police blotter for allegedly raping a 7-year-old girl:

An ex-military man has been arrested on charges of rape of a child and forcible sodomy.

Charles Alan Dyer, 29, of Marlow, was arrested Tuesday afternoon by Stephens County Sheriff’s deputies, said Sheriff Wayne McKinney. Dyer served in the United States Marines in Iraq.

Oh, and guess what police found when they searched his home:

During the search the sheriff’s deputies noted several firearms and a device believed to be a Colt M-203, 40-millimeter grenade launcher, a complaint filed in the United States District Court of Western Oklahoma by Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco Special Agent Brett Williams said.

As the story from KAUZ-TV notes, Dyer had a history of making bizarre claims in his videos -- as well as violent fears of being arrested.

“We come home and those *******s want to talk about how we’re domestic terrorists and a threat to this country. It makes me so angry,” said Charles Dyer, who has been accused of committing rape.

... More incriminating evidence against Dyer has surfaced in a YouTube video. The video shows Dyer, a former U.S. Marine, talking proudly about domestic terrorism. “Join the military?”, said Dyer. “Depends on what you want to do with it. Me? I'm going to use my training and become one of those domestic terrorists that you’re so afraid of from the DHS reports.”

... “I’m certainly not going to be hiding from my command anymore. I’m not hiding from ATF. Not hiding from FBI. Any organization. If they want to come get me I’m not going to be afraid,” Dyer said.

“Patriots, we are not overpowered. If we united under one banner and fight for our children’s liberity and the constitution, our resolve is invincible to any standing army,” Dyer said.

GossipBoy is reporting that the rape victim was a close family member. They also report that Dyer had been in touch with a fellow militiaman linked to explosives dealing, and that when bomb-sniffing dogs searched Dyer's home, they indicated explosives had been stored there recently.

Meanwhile, unsurprisingly, the folks at American Resistance Movement -- a group Dyer was also prominently involved in -- are claiming that Dyer was set up, and the girl who accused him was "programmed" to do so. Accordingly, they've set up a "Free July4Patriot" fund, with a little button on their front page so you can donate.

Also, Dyer's YouTube page remains active.

Every movement attracts its freaks. But the Patriot movement attracts an inordinate number of them -- and particularly people with a pedophilia problem. (I can list at least 10 different prominent figures in the Northwest's Patriot movement in the 1990s who had a history of being charged with abusing and abducting children.) Evidently, being a pedophile leads to resentment of the government -- probably for its desire to lock you away.

We'll reserve judgment on Dyer's guilt or innocence for after the trial. But let's just say that the predictable claims that he's been arrested as part of a government plot to silence him are not exactly compelling in this case.


----------



## Christopher67

TPG said:


> Since this is a civil war thread....
> 
> http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-leader-arrested-rape
> 
> 'Oath Keepers' Leader Arrested for Child Rape; Cops Find Stolen Grenade Launcher In His House
> By David Neiwert Thursday Jan 21, 2010 6:00am
> 
> We first noticed Marine Sgt. Charles Dyer, aka "July4Patriot," back in March, when we ran one of the first reports on the "Oath Keepers" bloc of the Tea Party movement -- an organization devoted to recruiting military and police-force veterans into a Patriot-movement belief system predicated on a series of paranoid conspiracy theories, especially the notion that the federal government intends to begin rounding up citizens and putting them in concentration camps.
> 
> Dyer played a prominent role in connecting the Oath Keepers to the Tea Party movement, speaking at a July 4 Tea Party rally in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. And he's been involved in organizing militia "maneuvers" in Oklahoma.
> 
> Dyer cropped up again in the news -- this time in the police blotter for allegedly raping a 7-year-old girl:
> 
> An ex-military man has been arrested on charges of rape of a child and forcible sodomy.
> 
> Charles Alan Dyer, 29, of Marlow, was arrested Tuesday afternoon by Stephens County Sheriff’s deputies, said Sheriff Wayne McKinney. Dyer served in the United States Marines in Iraq.
> 
> Oh, and guess what police found when they searched his home:
> 
> During the search the sheriff’s deputies noted several firearms and a device believed to be a Colt M-203, 40-millimeter grenade launcher, a complaint filed in the United States District Court of Western Oklahoma by Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco Special Agent Brett Williams said.
> 
> As the story from KAUZ-TV notes, Dyer had a history of making bizarre claims in his videos -- as well as violent fears of being arrested.
> 
> “We come home and those *******s want to talk about how we’re domestic terrorists and a threat to this country. It makes me so angry,” said Charles Dyer, who has been accused of committing rape.
> 
> ... More incriminating evidence against Dyer has surfaced in a YouTube video. The video shows Dyer, a former U.S. Marine, talking proudly about domestic terrorism. “Join the military?”, said Dyer. “Depends on what you want to do with it. Me? I'm going to use my training and become one of those domestic terrorists that you’re so afraid of from the DHS reports.”
> 
> ... “I’m certainly not going to be hiding from my command anymore. I’m not hiding from ATF. Not hiding from FBI. Any organization. If they want to come get me I’m not going to be afraid,” Dyer said.
> 
> “Patriots, we are not overpowered. If we united under one banner and fight for our children’s liberity and the constitution, our resolve is invincible to any standing army,” Dyer said.
> 
> GossipBoy is reporting that the rape victim was a close family member. They also report that Dyer had been in touch with a fellow militiaman linked to explosives dealing, and that when bomb-sniffing dogs searched Dyer's home, they indicated explosives had been stored there recently.
> 
> Meanwhile, unsurprisingly, the folks at American Resistance Movement -- a group Dyer was also prominently involved in -- are claiming that Dyer was set up, and the girl who accused him was "programmed" to do so. Accordingly, they've set up a "Free July4Patriot" fund, with a little button on their front page so you can donate.
> 
> Also, Dyer's YouTube page remains active.
> 
> Every movement attracts its freaks. But the Patriot movement attracts an inordinate number of them -- and particularly people with a pedophilia problem. (I can list at least 10 different prominent figures in the Northwest's Patriot movement in the 1990s who had a history of being charged with abusing and abducting children.) Evidently, being a pedophile leads to resentment of the government -- probably for its desire to lock you away.
> 
> We'll reserve judgment on Dyer's guilt or innocence for after the trial. But let's just say that the predictable claims that he's been arrested as part of a government plot to silence him are not exactly compelling in this case.



Not seeing his name anywhere on this page. http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/ 



Oath Keepers of Hawaii Liaison:

Thu, 01/21/2010 - 13:34 — inf11b38

My name is SGT Justin Brown; the Hawaii Liaison for Oath Keepers. Certain facts need to be cleared up. Oath Keepers is not a militia movement; it was organized simply to educate Active troops and law enforcement on the Constitution and to allow them to understand that our Oath is to protect such. Also, to stand DOWN, NOT UP, in times when unlawful orders are given. SGT Dyer was also affiliated with Oath Keepers, but never officially a member; so everyone needs to get the facts straight. As a 3 time Combat Infantryman I am appauled that this article would allow people to believe such. See Stuart Rhodes official statement about such also. We're here to protect the Constitution and the people; that is it.




Nice try.


----------



## goldfish

I dont think anything is going to happen. here is why. we have to many liberal cry babies who depend upon the system to servive. I wont have a problem i live ina farm and will grow my own food and stay out of anything that happens. any one comes on my land i would do what must be done.


----------



## TPG

goldfish said:


> I dont think anything is going to happen. here is why. we have to many liberal cry babies who depend upon the system to servive. I wont have a problem i live ina farm and will grow my own food and stay out of anything that happens. any one comes on my land i would do what must be done.


If there's a civil war, my house will be the one with the right wing wackos crucified on the front lawn.

C'mon by, we'll shoot some dots. :darkbeer:

Still undecided about heads on stakes.


----------



## jna329

TPG said:


> Since this is a civil war thread....
> 
> http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-leader-arrested-rape
> 
> 'Oath Keepers' Leader Arrested for Child Rape; Cops Find Stolen Grenade Launcher In His House
> By David Neiwert Thursday Jan 21, 2010 6:00am
> 
> We first noticed Marine Sgt. Charles Dyer, aka "July4Patriot," back in March, when we ran one of the first reports on the "Oath Keepers" bloc of the Tea Party movement -- an organization devoted to recruiting military and police-force veterans into a Patriot-movement belief system predicated on a series of paranoid conspiracy theories, especially the notion that the federal government intends to begin rounding up citizens and putting them in concentration camps.
> 
> Dyer played a prominent role in connecting the Oath Keepers to the Tea Party movement, speaking at a July 4 Tea Party rally in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. And he's been involved in organizing militia "maneuvers" in Oklahoma.
> 
> Dyer cropped up again in the news -- this time in the police blotter for allegedly raping a 7-year-old girl:
> 
> An ex-military man has been arrested on charges of rape of a child and forcible sodomy.
> 
> Charles Alan Dyer, 29, of Marlow, was arrested Tuesday afternoon by Stephens County Sheriff’s deputies, said Sheriff Wayne McKinney. Dyer served in the United States Marines in Iraq.
> 
> Oh, and guess what police found when they searched his home:
> 
> During the search the sheriff’s deputies noted several firearms and a device believed to be a Colt M-203, 40-millimeter grenade launcher, a complaint filed in the United States District Court of Western Oklahoma by Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco Special Agent Brett Williams said.
> 
> As the story from KAUZ-TV notes, Dyer had a history of making bizarre claims in his videos -- as well as violent fears of being arrested.
> 
> “We come home and those *******s want to talk about how we’re domestic terrorists and a threat to this country. It makes me so angry,” said Charles Dyer, who has been accused of committing rape.
> 
> ... More incriminating evidence against Dyer has surfaced in a YouTube video. The video shows Dyer, a former U.S. Marine, talking proudly about domestic terrorism. “Join the military?”, said Dyer. “Depends on what you want to do with it. Me? I'm going to use my training and become one of those domestic terrorists that you’re so afraid of from the DHS reports.”
> 
> ... “I’m certainly not going to be hiding from my command anymore. I’m not hiding from ATF. Not hiding from FBI. Any organization. If they want to come get me I’m not going to be afraid,” Dyer said.
> 
> “Patriots, we are not overpowered. If we united under one banner and fight for our children’s liberity and the constitution, our resolve is invincible to any standing army,” Dyer said.
> 
> GossipBoy is reporting that the rape victim was a close family member. They also report that Dyer had been in touch with a fellow militiaman linked to explosives dealing, and that when bomb-sniffing dogs searched Dyer's home, they indicated explosives had been stored there recently.
> 
> Meanwhile, unsurprisingly, the folks at American Resistance Movement -- a group Dyer was also prominently involved in -- are claiming that Dyer was set up, and the girl who accused him was "programmed" to do so. Accordingly, they've set up a "Free July4Patriot" fund, with a little button on their front page so you can donate.
> 
> Also, Dyer's YouTube page remains active.
> 
> Every movement attracts its freaks. But the Patriot movement attracts an inordinate number of them -- and particularly people with a pedophilia problem. (I can list at least 10 different prominent figures in the Northwest's Patriot movement in the 1990s who had a history of being charged with abusing and abducting children.) Evidently, being a pedophile leads to resentment of the government -- probably for its desire to lock you away.
> 
> We'll reserve judgment on Dyer's guilt or innocence for after the trial. But let's just say that the predictable claims that he's been arrested as part of a government plot to silence him are not exactly compelling in this case.


this doesnt really belong here. It has no real bearing on the content of this discussion. So some stupid **** did something wrong- it has nothing to do with Oath Keepers or this thread. Moderator should remove.



Christopher67 said:


> Not seeing his name anywhere on this page. http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/
> 
> 
> 
> Oath Keepers of Hawaii Liaison:
> 
> Thu, 01/21/2010 - 13:34 — inf11b38
> 
> My name is SGT Justin Brown; the Hawaii Liaison for Oath Keepers. Certain facts need to be cleared up. Oath Keepers is not a militia movement; it was organized simply to educate Active troops and law enforcement on the Constitution and to allow them to understand that our Oath is to protect such. Also, to stand DOWN, NOT UP, in times when unlawful orders are given. SGT Dyer was also affiliated with Oath Keepers, but never officially a member; so everyone needs to get the facts straight. As a 3 time Combat Infantryman I am appauled that this article would allow people to believe such. See Stuart Rhodes official statement about such also. We're here to protect the Constitution and the people; that is it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try.


thanks for the clarity- keep up the work.



TPG said:


> If there's a civil war, my house will be the one with the right wing wackos crucified on the front lawn.
> 
> C'mon by, we'll shoot some dots. :darkbeer:
> 
> Still undecided about heads on stakes.


Why just the right wingers. There are wackos on both sides, and in the middle.(sounds to me like you are one) You going to crucify them too? So if I come to visit you and tell you that I am a republican, you are going to attempt to crucify me. I think you are opening yourself up for serious repercussions. (just for the record I claim no political offiliation; I just tend to lean to the right most of the time) I would love to sit across a table from you (and those like you) and have an educated debate on our government and how it affects all of us. When we are done discussing it if you still want to crucify me - I would give you the opportunity to try.


----------



## TPG

jna329 said:


> Why just the right wingers. There are wackos on both sides, and in the middle.(sounds to me like you are one) You going to crucify them too? So if I come to visit you and tell you that I am a republican, you are going to attempt to crucify me. I think you are opening yourself up for serious repercussions. (just for the record I claim no political offiliation; I just tend to lean to the right most of the time) I would love to sit across a table from you (and those like you) and have an educated debate on our government and how it affects all of us. When we are done discussing it if you still want to crucify me - I would give you the opportunity to try.


Sounds to you like I am one?
THATS THE POINT!
Fear is a fantastic motivator/demotivator.

Honestly, I get along with all sides of the fence and welcome open adult debate (not this BS that people have been driven to by pundits and caricatures of 'journalists') and in fact ENJOY it tremendously!

The fighting, name calling, general BS is getting us nowhere as Americans. Its just polarizing things worse and worse and unless everyone STOPS acting like little spoiled children who just had their tv turned off to do homework we're not going to get ANYWHERE!

This includes everyone from politicians down to you me and everyone else out there.

This crap is ******ed, getting nobody anywhere and is just pissing basically everyone off.

If people can't handle the fact that other people can have/form/defend opinions on their own maybe they should just turn off the tv, the internet, and go live a troll under the bridge's life.


----------



## jna329

TPG said:


> Sounds to you like I am one?
> THATS THE POINT!
> Fear is a fantastic motivator/demotivator.
> 
> Honestly, I get along with all sides of the fence and welcome open adult debate (not this BS that people have been driven to by pundits and caricatures of 'journalists') and in fact ENJOY it tremendously!
> 
> The fighting, name calling, general BS is getting us nowhere as Americans. Its just polarizing things worse and worse and unless everyone STOPS acting like little spoiled children who just had their tv turned off to do homework we're not going to get ANYWHERE!
> 
> This includes everyone from politicians down to you me and everyone else out there.
> 
> This crap is ******ed, getting nobody anywhere and is just pissing basically everyone off.
> 
> If people can't handle the fact that other people can have/form/defend opinions on their own maybe they should just turn off the tv, the internet, and go live a troll under the bridge's life.


I am not sure what being a wacko and using fear as a motivator/demotivator has to do with our discussion, but we seem to be on the same page as far as the fact that things need to change and the BS is not getting anything done. We may disagree on policy but the fact is we will not get anywhere with the current agenda. 
Your also correct in the fact that people should be allowed to form opinions and have open, educated debate on those opinions. I was in no way attacking you or any such thing. I was merely pointing you to the fact that we can disagree without name calling and childish actions. I have just as much right as you to state my opinion and welcome good debate. 
I encourage debate as long as it is educated and necessary. In the state that our country is in, I would say that the idea of a "civil war" is not as far fetched an idea as you, or others, may think. As I have stated before the fact that we are having this discussions shows the course this country is on. I have also stated that everything in "OUR"(the peoples) power should be done to let the government know that "we" dont only need, but demand to be heard. We need to make sure that the elected officials(regardless of party offiliation)listen to the people and put them first. If they refuse then we should seek alternative forms of action. Case in point- Scott Brown. The people spoke up and said it is time for a change. When, or if this action fails we will find another form of action to get our point across. 
Make no mistake- there is a war happening. It may not be your definition of war but it is happening. It is currently being fought with our voices and our pens.


----------



## TPG

Yeah but does Scott Brown really speak for us? So he's against the health care bill. Or so we're told.
Or does he speak for people like a certain individual I sail for? A lobbyist?

What has more power? Complaining/protesting or money?

Is he just going to be another republican who says "No." or is he going to make an effort to speak up and say "that plan sucks, this would be a smarter idea, lets pursue this."?

There doesn't need to be any civil war, if people would stand the hell up, AGREE on a middle ground then maybe things would work itself out? We're not psycho tribes in Afghanistan that just shoot each other over farm land. We're thoughtful FREE Americans who have the ability to sit down like mature (i hope) adults and come up with a better way of getting things done.


----------



## awshucks

I look for things to get better soon. I base this on the following facts. On 02/20/09 televised from the Chicago Board of Trade, a guy named Rick Santelli whined about the mortgage bailouts.

That basically started the Tea Party movement. Coupled w/ that we had a huge turn out of woke up Americans attending town hall meetings all over the country this past summer and fall. Tea Parties still being held all over the US.

All the while this has been happening, there's a 10th Amendment org working out there and States activity on that premise. Look for SCOTUS activity on that in the near future.

On 09/12/09 there was a huge National Tea Party at D.C. attended by a much larger number of people than the MSM reported, some claim close to 2.3M based on time lapse photography and a study done by the U of Ill.

Regardless of your political views, stance on health care reform, Dem or Repub, Lib or Conservative, I believe change is in the works.

I also strongly believe if the SHTF, it's going to start w/ a 19 yr old wearing a Natl guard uniform staring at another 19 yr old wearing a US Army uniform, both holding rifles, wondering how the hell they got where they are and what they are going to do. Let's all hope sanity prevails.


----------



## TPG

And then you have tea party express.
A for profit group.
Republicans ripping off other republicans.

Making money off of things other people are pissed off at.
Is that right?


----------



## awshucks

TPG said:


> And then you have tea party express.
> A for profit group.
> Republicans ripping off other republicans.
> 
> Making money off of things other people are pissed off at.
> Is that right?


Doubt it. Got any 'for profit' data/links? Not that I really care, they are the 'new kids' on the block. Notice the 10/09 appearance date:


About

The Tea Party Express national bus tour will host a series of tea party rallies all across the nation from coast-to-coast and border-to-border. The effort will begin in San Diego, California* on October 25th* and travel eastward, building momentum as the tour reaches its final destination: a giant rally in Orlando, Florida on November 12th.

*The tour comes exactly one-year before the November 2010 elections*

Nice try though!


----------



## TPG

http://tnbear.tn.gov/ECommerce/Common/FilingDetail.aspx?FilingNum=000600840

Nation, not express.

You should be careful about what you say is a nice try.
One of these days it'll backfire on you.
I know its fun to play smug and brilliant, but it only gets you so far for so long, in fact its unbecoming. Should we consider you one of the self righteous ones who think their voice matters? That one comment will make people silent? That your little world in your little house means something? I hope not. 

In fact, you should read this while you're at it.
http://ninetyninth.reteaparty.com/2...r-profit-tea-partys-such-as-tea-party-nation/
Do you even know what you're fighting for?
Do you even know what the current tax rate is?
Do you even know one section of the health care bill?
Do you even know who your state representatives are?

Nice try indeed.

_ I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth; banks are going bust; shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter; punks are running wild in the street, and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it.

We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. And we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!

We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy.

It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."

Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.

I want you to get mad!

I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write to your Congressman, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street.

All I know is that first, you've got to get mad.

You've gotta say, "I'm a human being, goddammit! My life has value!"

So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell,

"I'm as mad as hell,

and I'm not going to take this anymore!!"

_

-Network 1976


----------



## awshucks

> Nation, not express.
> 
> You should be careful about what you say is a nice try.
> One of these days it'll backfire on you.
> I know its fun to play smug and brilliant, but it only gets you so far for so long, in fact its unbecoming. Should we consider you one of the self righteous ones who think their voice matters? That one comment will make people silent? That your little world in your little house means something? I hope not.


Not too good at this are you? That's ok, I'll help out as much as I can.

1. I brought up the tea party movement.
2. you brought up tea party express
3. I showed they [tea party express]didn't get started for about 7-8 months after the tea parties did
4. You made the for profit claim on them, I asked for proof, still waiting.
5. You changed the subject to a different group.
6. smug, brilliant, unbecoming, and self righteous are all terms you are more familiar w/ than me, I defer to your expertise.


----------



## Christopher67

awshucks said:


> Not too good at this are you? That's ok, I'll help out as much as I can.
> 
> 1. I brought up the tea party movement.
> 2. you brought up tea party express
> 3. I showed they [tea party express]didn't get started for about 7-8 months after the tea parties did
> 4. You made the for profit claim on them, I asked for proof, still waiting.
> 5. You changed the subject to a different group.
> 6. smug, brilliant, unbecoming, and self righteous are all terms you are more familiar w/ than me, I defer to your expertise.




6 very valid points, great job. :thumbs_up


----------



## illinoislandog

Thanks for my Sunday morning entertainment! Another Civil War, come on...
Got a few people who learned a few big words like "socialist" and "forefathers" on Fox News and are now spewing their ignorance. I think it is great that a few right-wing extremist, toothless hillbillys can speak their mind. Perhaps instead of solving are Country's problems, they should focus on brushing that tooth!!


----------



## SHOOT-N-STAB

"United we stand, Divided we Fall." No truer statement ever said. As long as we fight among ourselves, we will never unite to stand together. We cannot continue this type of name calling among us and expect to keep our rights. We are continuosly under attack from left wing groups trying to take away our rights of hunting.



illinoislandog said:


> Thanks for my Sunday morning entertainment! Another Civil War, come on...
> Got a few people who learned a few big words like "socialist" and "forefathers" on Fox News and are now spewing their ignorance. I think it is great that a few right-wing extremist, toothless hillbillys can speak their mind. Perhaps instead of solving are Country's problems, they should focus on brushing that tooth!!


This kind of name calling will get us nowhere. If you have facts to support your point of view, then please share. If you can only reply with name calling, then keep it to yourself. This kind of elitist attitude is why our country is in the shape it is. I have a college education. I work side by side with people who don't. It does not make me any bettr then them. Many are good friends of mine. I consider myself a ******* hillbilly at heart. And I have all my teeth! lol. These kind of comments show the true ignorance of the person saying them.

When thel h3ll are we going to stop this and start talking about solutions?


----------



## awshucks

illinoislandog said:


> Thanks for my Sunday morning entertainment! Another Civil War, come on...
> Got a few people who learned a few big words like "socialist" and "forefathers" on Fox News and are now spewing their ignorance. I think it is great that a few right-wing extremist, toothless hillbillys can speak their mind. Perhaps instead of solving are Country's problems, they should focus on brushing that tooth!!


Lol, fwiw, recent Democratic poll showed Fox most trusted by 49%, compared to a high of mid 30's by leader of the rest. So, it's not a 'few people'.

I live in Ar and know several toothless hillbillies. Most know the diff between the proper usage of 'our and are', 'their and there'.

And thanks! You were my Sunday morning entertainment:thumbs_up.


----------



## illinoislandog

You are kidding me, right! This topic has nothing to do with the removal of hunting rights. A man from Arkansas started a "poll" to spew his anti United States rhetoric. Pictures of billboards, prepare for war, US civil war, revolution, call to arms, guns, violence, ect... Come on, give me a break! Anti-government garbage by a wannabe mercenary, right wing extremist surely can be responded to. You have a few individuals pretty much threatening other US citizens here. Thanks for the gramer lesun, you da man!


----------



## Christopher67

illinoislandog said:


> A man from Arkansas started a "poll" to spew his anti United States rhetoric. Pictures of billboards, prepare for war, US civil war, revolution, call to arms, guns, violence, ect... Come on, give me a break! Anti-government garbage by a wannabe mercenary, right wing extremist surely can be responded to. You have a few individuals pretty much threatening other US citizens here. Thanks for the gramer lesun, you da man!



So where do you stand?  Who's the mercenary you speak of? :set1_fishing:


----------



## ebonarcher

I'll hold off on voting for now. But a better question is is you started one how do you plan on choosing sides ?
location/clolr/sex/orintation or do have a bull-hit meter ?
kill everybody and hope were forgiven ?


----------



## Christopher67

ebonarcher said:


> kill everybody and hope were forgiven ?



:icon_1_lol:


----------



## jna329

illinoislandog said:


> You are kidding me, right! This topic has nothing to do with the removal of hunting rights. A man from Arkansas started a "poll" to spew his anti United States rhetoric. Pictures of billboards, prepare for war, US civil war, revolution, call to arms, guns, violence, ect... Come on, give me a break! Anti-government garbage by a wannabe mercenary, right wing extremist surely can be responded to. You have a few individuals pretty much threatening other US citizens here. Thanks for the gramer lesun, you da man!


You are entitled to your opinion. I assure you that your assumption of the purpose of this thread is way off. First, its not anti U.S. More like anti- current government. Second, I haven't seen anyone say anything about a mercenary, other than you. Third, Why are we so extreme in our views when you are the one that is profiling, name-calling, and judgmental. If you have read, and sorted through the bs, then you should be intelligent enough to know that we arent trying to instigate a war, merely pointing out that the flaws in our government and the path this country is on, is creating major problems. Again, I will say, THE FACT THAT WE ARE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION SHOWS THAT THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. I love my country and will fight to keep it safe and free; Foreign threats or domestic. I do not know you or much about you, but I am willing to bet that there is something about our current government that you dont like. If you voted, and will vote again, then you are working to have your voice heard. That means you are part of the "war".



ebonarcher said:


> I'll hold off on voting for now. But a better question is is you started one how do you plan on choosing sides ?
> location/clolr/sex/orintation or do have a bull-hit meter ?
> kill everybody and hope were forgiven ?


This question has been answered before. The people vs. those that want to take our freedoms. The people vs. those that do not uphold the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. The people vs. those that neglect to think of our childrens future. 


For the record- I personally feel that there is a war happening and we are all part of it. It is not the same as it was 150 years ago. Todays civil war is fought more in a voting booth and with a pen than with combat. But, IF or when it comes down to picking sides I think it will be a little more clear for those that are still unsure. Sit and complain and do nothing or Stand for your God given rights.


----------



## Christopher67

jna329 said:


> You are entitled to your opinion. I assure you that your assumption of the purpose of this thread is way off. First, its not anti U.S. More like anti- current government. Second, I haven't seen anyone say anything about a mercenary, other than you. Third, Why are we so extreme in our views when you are the one that is profiling, name-calling, and judgmental. If you have read, and sorted through the bs, then you should be intelligent enough to know that we arent trying to instigate a war, merely pointing out that the flaws in our government and the path this country is on, is creating major problems. Again, I will say, THE FACT THAT WE ARE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION SHOWS THAT THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. I love my country and will fight to keep it safe and free; Foreign threats or domestic. I do not know you or much about you, but I am willing to bet that there is something about our current government that you dont like. If you voted, and will vote again, then you are working to have your voice heard. That means you are part of the "war".
> 
> 
> This question has been answered before. The people vs. those that want to take our freedoms. The people vs. those that do not uphold the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. The people vs. those that neglect to think of our childrens future.
> 
> 
> For the record- I personally feel that there is a war happening and we are all part of it. It is not the same as it was 150 years ago. Todays civil war is fought more in a voting booth and with a pen than with combat. But, IF or when it comes down to picking sides I think it will be a little more clear for those that are still unsure. Sit and complain and do nothing or Stand for your God given rights.



Very well said on both posts! :thumbs_up


----------



## illinoislandog

Little buddy, I'm certainly not part of your little imaginary war. Bla Bla Bla....


----------



## jna329

illinoislandog said:


> Little buddy, I'm certainly not part of your little imaginary war. Bla Bla Bla....


Like it or not you are still debating this issue. That makes you part of it. You voice your opinion and cut down those that disagree with you. That makes you part of the reason there is a problem. Last time I checked, I am no ones "little buddy".


----------



## skybolt

jna329 said:


> Like it or not you are still debating this issue. That makes you part of it. You voice your opinion and cut down those that disagree with you. That makes you part of the reason there is a problem. Last time I checked, I am no ones "little buddy".


Well said!!!


----------



## Christopher67

skybolt said:


> Well said!!!


x2 !~ :thumbs_up


----------



## Carpshooter

*Confession time !*

I love this site , cause you meet some of the nices rebels around ! :darkbeer:


----------



## SCswitchback

illinoislandog said:


> Little buddy, I'm certainly not part of your little imaginary war. Bla Bla Bla....


Your condescending tone and elitist attitude leaves alot to be desired. You refer to people as ********, while you're the one doing the name calling. How old are you?

BTW, I'll state my opinion on the whole thread so far. As far as civil war goes, I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. I think alot of things would have to happen that are unlikely. Several posters have mentioned that not enough people would stand up to fight. That's because our everday lives have not been affected enough YET. I think all it will take to see an uprising is a significant piece of legislation that WILL directly affect the everyday lives of the "common man."
The one thing I think could lead to a violent revolt is gun legislation. The day they (liberal government) tries to take our guns will be a bad bad day. The US Military would not stand a snowball's chance in hell of suppressing the uprising that we'd see. Our military's full strength would be crushed by the private gun owners in this country. That's not considering the fact that the vast majority of our military would likely go awol if they had to enforce gun legislation, because many them and their families are gun owners.

If there is a straw that breaks the camels back, I think it will be over guns.

Just my opinion.

I too have a strong dislike of liberalism. I'm a fan of small government, low taxes, trickle down economics, personal responsibility, hard work, God, and guns. Call me right wing extremist if you want, but these are the things that I think HAVE made this country great. 

As far as health insurance goes, I'll give my opinion on that as well.
My wife and I are both self employed (I'm 29, she's 26). We buy our own health insurance and it's a shade over $500 per month with a $3,000 deductible. Obviously, I don't like writing that $500 check every month. For that price I could buy a new truck, a new boat, a bunch of new bows, or take some nice vacations every year. But...I'm smart enough and resposible enough to realize that healthcare is important for my family. Some people truly can't afford health insurance. I hate it for them. However, I'd like to know how many people claim to not be able to afford it, but drive new vehicles every other year, have astronomical house payments, etc etc etc. Theres a difference in not being able to afford it and not WANTING to be able to afford it. Many people don't make it a priority, because they know that the govt. will bail them out.


----------



## Christopher67

SCswitchback said:


> Your condescending tone and elitist attitude leaves alot to be desired. You refer to people as ********, while you're the one doing the name calling. How old are you?
> 
> BTW, I'll state my opinion on the whole thread so far. As far as civil war goes, I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. I think alot of things would have to happen that are unlikely. Several posters have mentioned that not enough people would stand up to fight. That's because our everday lives have not been affected enough YET. I think all it will take to see an uprising is a significant piece of legislation that WILL directly affect the everyday lives of the "common man."
> The one thing I think could lead to a violent revolt is gun legislation. The day they (liberal government) tries to take our guns will be a bad bad day. The US Military would not stand a snowball's chance in hell of suppressing the uprising that we'd see. Our military's full strength would be crushed by the private gun owners in this country. That's not considering the fact that the vast majority of our military would likely go awol if they had to enforce gun legislation, because many them and their families are gun owners.
> 
> If there is a straw that breaks the camels back, I think it will be over guns.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> I too have a strong dislike of liberalism. I'm a fan of small government, low taxes, trickle down economics, personal responsibility, hard work, God, and guns. Call me right wing extremist if you want, but these are the things that I think HAVE made this country great.
> 
> As far as health insurance goes, I'll give my opinion on that as well.
> My wife and I are both self employed (I'm 29, she's 26). We buy our own health insurance and it's a shade over $500 per month with a $3,000 deductible. Obviously, I don't like writing that $500 check every month. For that price I could buy a new truck, a new boat, a bunch of new bows, or take some nice vacations every year. But...I'm smart enough and resposible enough to realize that healthcare is important for my family. Some people truly can't afford health insurance. I hate it for them. However, I'd like to know how many people claim to not be able to afford it, but drive new vehicles every other year, have astronomical house payments, etc etc etc. Theres a difference in not being able to afford it and not WANTING to be able to afford it. Many people don't make it a priority, because they know that the govt. will bail them out.



This has got to be one of the best posts on *THIS* thread. :thumbs_up


----------



## awshucks

Stolen quote:

"Democracy comes in four boxes. Soap box, Ballot box, Jury box, and Cartridge box."


----------



## jna329

Christopher67 said:


> This has got to be one of the best posts on *THIS* thread. :thumbs_up


Absolutely! Excellent post!


----------



## AR_Headhunter

Many you guys make me glad to be from Arkansas. They call us hillbillies & thats a tag we wear with pride! At least you always know where we stand & you've never seen a fight until you try the patience of one of us good ol' boys. :wink:


----------



## illinoislandog

Your condescending tone and elitist attitude leaves alot to be desired. You refer to people as ********, while you're the one doing the name calling. How old are you?

Been called a few things, but never an "elitist" I never referred to anyone as a *******. I believe a few people posting referred to themselves as ********. That pretty much sums up their mentality. I am old enough and have had enough "life experience" to give you a lesson on American history and economics.

I think all it will take to see an uprising is a significant piece of legislation that WILL directly affect the everyday lives of the "common man."

I think political history will show that the Republican Party has never and will never do anything for the "common man." If you believe anything to the contrary, they have also taken the word "gullable" out of the dictionary.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

illinoislandog said:


> Your condescending tone and elitist attitude leaves alot to be desired. You refer to people as ********, while you're the one doing the name calling. How old are you?
> 
> Been called a few things, but never an "elitist" I never referred to anyone as a *******. I believe a few people posting referred to themselves as ********. That pretty much sums up their mentality. I am old enough and have had enough "life experience" to give you a lesson on American history and economics.
> 
> I think all it will take to see an uprising is a significant piece of legislation that WILL directly affect the everyday lives of the "common man."
> 
> I think political history will show that the Republican Party has never and will never do anything for the "common man." If you believe anything to the contrary, they have also taken the word "gullable" out of the dictionary.



Typical liberal attitude. Anything else you care to share with us since you obviously know it all? ukey:


----------



## Christopher67

illinoislandog said:


> I think political history will show that the Republican Party has never and will never do anything for the "common man." If you believe anything to the contrary, they have also taken the word "gullable" out of the dictionary.




So what the socialists, sorry i meant democrats have given us is more debt(Trillions). Yea you're correct lets spread that wealth. You can't spend your way into prosperity that will *NEVER* happen.


----------



## illinoislandog

I am not a "liberal." Please explain what a liberal is. Please explain what a socialist is. Like I said before, their are a lot of people like yourselves repeating these terms, words and phrases to make some type of political point. People repeating these terms and words without a clue what they are talking about. Please explain trickle down economics.
Explain to me what "big government" is. Tell me about the "new deal" Tell me why,if you work for an hourly wage, you make more than $3.00 an hour today. Tell me why you don't have to work 7 days a week. Tell me why, if you cut off your hand at work you can't be fired. Little off topic here, just responding to a few words in the last few posts. Explain the results of trickle down economics after 1980-1992 & 2000-2008. How did it effect the working man. What was the National deficit after the Reaganomics theory of economics ended in '92. What was or is the unemployment rate after this trickle down thing. Do you know what the interest rate was in the 1980's to buy a house because of this economic theory. Almost 20% interest on a house loan.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

Just because you did not play attention to history or economics in school does not make it our job to educate you. 

You apparently think we are all republican supporters here. Actually I am not affiliated with any political movement except the tea party movement. 

Also, just FYI IMO Clinton was the best president we had in a long time. He did what needed to be done for the economy plus he balanced the budget & had a surplus. Long as he was doing his job, I for 1 could care less about what Monica was doing under his desk. Then here came the Bush & everyone knows he did his best to run our economy into the ground. Now we have Obama who wants to turn us all into dependants of the system & shove his extremest views down our throats. 

See thats the primary difference between most of the people posting here & people like you. We can actually see whats happening for ourselves & form our own educated opinions without just blindly following any political parties rhetoric. 

Now lets address some issues from you that we skipped over. No one on this thread has said we should rise up & take armed action against our government. We have rationally discussed many scenarios under "what if". There is a difference & perhaps you should take the time to realize that. Don't get me wrong, if it comes down to a FIGHT then I'm ready but I do not think our government really wants to do battle with the armed citizens of this country. Mainly because they know they would get their *** handed to them on a platter. If you do not agree then perhaps you need to do a little research. Many of us here discussing the various outcomes are ex-military. We understand exactly how the military works & therefore know the best way to oppose military action. After all it's really not that hard to look at history to understand that.

You also need to look at those poll numbers. Roughly 60% think a revolution is possible or needed. That says a lot about the mindset of the American people.

Also back there in your second post on this thread you said.


illinoislandog said:


> You are kidding me, right! This topic has nothing to do with the removal of hunting rights. A man from Arkansas started a "poll" to spew his anti United States rhetoric. Pictures of billboards, prepare for war, US civil war, revolution, call to arms, guns, violence, ect... Come on, give me a break! Anti-government garbage by a wannabe mercenary, right wing extremist surely can be responded to. You have a few individuals pretty much threatening other US citizens here. Thanks for the gramer lesun, you da man!


Actually this thread has to do with many of our rights & liberties. It also has to do with how people are feed up with the government trying to push agenda's which have nothing to do with benefiting "We the people". As for my "anti United States rhetoric". I love my country & I also make no bones about hating my government. There is a difference so educate yourself on why so many people agree with that statement. As for me being a "wanna be mercenary. I do not want to fight but if our government keeps pushing the people then we are very likely to see a fight & I for one would not be sitting on my backside waiting for a government handout or waiting for the government to defend my home, city, county, state or country. I would be on the front lines doing what needs to be done. Take that however you want. Also I would like to see where anyone on this thread has threatened anyone. 

As for us "toothless hillbillies", You might be very surprised to learn just how educated many of us are. After all we are not from Illinois where corruption is the name of the game. We understand how to use proper language & know how to intelligently debate a issue. We also understand the blind faith of liberals who think the world owes them something. Let me clue you in. The world or the people of the United States do not owe you anything. If you want to get ahead in this life then do it with hard work & commitment. Not by trying to take from those who have been successful because of their hard work. If you want redistribution of wealth that you did not earn then perhaps your in the wrong country. I would suggest China, Russia, or any one of several other socialist countries. You take your pic. :wink:


----------



## illinoislandog

Very well put! I didn't think you had it in you. Now THATS how you should have started your thread. You made 3 or 4 points that I actually agree with. I sometimes have a problem with extremist views. Whether it's the " Tea Party" or some man in San Fransisco "parading" around in tights, mask and chicken feathers on his head. Overthrowing the government of the United States of America is something that should not be trivialized. These two things cannot be seperated, (government and the US) regardless of what party is in power. United States is the United States. Extremist views displayed on billboards calling for internal unrest, calling for war will definitely make your points of view a little less valid in my eyes. Verbal attacks on the government of the United States of America will always get a response from me. Proud to be an American! Get a little passionate, brought up the "hillbilly" thing. I do apologize.


----------



## reflex shooter

AR_Headhunter said:


> You also need to look at those poll numbers. Roughly 60% think a revolution is possible or needed. That says a lot about the mindset of the American people.
> 
> :


Actually it only says something about the mindset of 77 people who read the legislative and hunting rights forum. I don't really think you can extrapolate those results to the mindset of the American population as a whole.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

reflex shooter said:


> Actually it only says something about the mindset of 77 people who read the legislative and hunting rights forum. I don't really think you can extrapolate those results to the mindset of the American population as a whole.


Your right but in my area the % would be closer to 85 - 90 % of the people think a revolution is coming one way or the other.


----------



## jna329

illinoislandog said:


> I think political history will show that the Republican Party has never and will never do anything for the "common man." If you believe anything to the contrary, they have also taken the word "gullable" out of the dictionary.


I for one, and pretty sure others, made no claims of being republican. that assumption was made by you.



AR_Headhunter said:


> Just because you did not play attention to history or economics in school does not make it our job to educate you.
> 
> You apparently think we are all republican supporters here. Actually I am not affiliated with any political movement except the tea party movement.
> 
> Also, just FYI IMO Clinton was the best president we had in a long time. He did what needed to be done for the economy plus he balanced the budget & had a surplus. Long as he was doing his job, I for 1 could care less about what Monica was doing under his desk. Then here came the Bush & everyone knows he did his best to run our economy into the ground. Now we have Obama who wants to turn us all into dependants of the system & shove his extremest views down our throats.
> 
> See thats the primary difference between most of the people posting here & people like you. We can actually see whats happening for ourselves & form our own educated opinions without just blindly following any political parties rhetoric.
> 
> Now lets address some issues from you that we skipped over. No one on this thread has said we should rise up & take armed action against our government. We have rationally discussed many scenarios under "what if". There is a difference & perhaps you should take the time to realize that. Don't get me wrong, if it comes down to a FIGHT then I'm ready but I do not think our government really wants to do battle with the armed citizens of this country. Mainly because they know they would get their *** handed to them on a platter. If you do not agree then perhaps you need to do a little research. Many of us here discussing the various outcomes are ex-military. We understand exactly how the military works & therefore know the best way to oppose military action. After all it's really not that hard to look at history to understand that.
> 
> You also need to look at those poll numbers. Roughly 60% think a revolution is possible or needed. That says a lot about the mindset of the American people.
> 
> Also back there in your second post on this thread you said.
> 
> 
> Actually this thread has to do with many of our rights & liberties. It also has to do with how people are feed up with the government trying to push agenda's which have nothing to do with benefiting "We the people". As for my "anti United States rhetoric". I love my country & I also make no bones about hating my government. There is a difference so educate yourself on why so many people agree with that statement. As for me being a "wanna be mercenary. I do not want to fight but if our government keeps pushing the people then we are very likely to see a fight & I for one would not be sitting on my backside waiting for a government handout or waiting for the government to defend my home, city, county, state or country. I would be on the front lines doing what needs to be done. Take that however you want. Also I would like to see where anyone on this thread has threatened anyone.
> 
> As for us "toothless hillbillies", You might be very surprised to learn just how educated many of us are. After all we are not from Illinois where corruption is the name of the game. We understand how to use proper language & know how to intelligently debate a issue. We also understand the blind faith of liberals who think the world owes them something. Let me clue you in. The world or the people of the United States do not owe you anything. If you want to get ahead in this life then do it with hard work & commitment. Not by trying to take from those who have been successful because of their hard work. If you want redistribution of wealth that you did not earn then perhaps your in the wrong country. I would suggest China, Russia, or any one of several other socialist countries. You take your pic. :wink:


very well said. 



illinoislandog said:


> Very well put! I didn't think you had it in you. Now THATS how you should have started your thread. You made 3 or 4 points that I actually agree with. I sometimes have a problem with extremist views. Whether it's the " Tea Party" or some man in San Fransisco "parading" around in tights, mask and chicken feathers on his head. Overthrowing the government of the United States of America is something that should not be trivialized. These two things cannot be seperated, (government and the US) regardless of what party is in power. United States is the United States. Extremist views displayed on billboards calling for internal unrest, calling for war will definitely make your points of view a little less valid in my eyes. Verbal attacks on the government of the United States of America will always get a response from me. Proud to be an American! Get a little passionate, brought up the "hillbilly" thing. I do apologize.


 I completely agree that we should not trivialize such a subject. I too, love my country. I am proud to be an American. That said, there is nothing that forces me to agree with, or support, any form of government that I dont agree with. I disagree that you cannot seperate government and US. When the government abuses the power given to them, they abuse the people. The people make up the US. They are elected officials, men and women, that are supposed to represent the people of the United States. If they cannot, or in some cases will not, represent us then they should not be allowed to continue that position. Therefore the government and the US are seperate entities.



reflex shooter said:


> Actually it only says something about the mindset of 77 people who read the legislative and hunting rights forum. I don't really think you can extrapolate those results to the mindset of the American population as a whole.


This is just a forum made of a few thousand people. This is a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers outside of this website. If you look at approval ratings and the current state of things you will see that just because there is only 77 people in this debate, that number doesn't reflect the people of the U.S. that feel the same way.


----------



## reflex shooter

There will be a revolution, but it will be a revolution of voters. Just look at MA as an example, MA electing a republican? The American people will make their minds heard in November I believe.


----------



## SCswitchback

illinoislandog said:


> Your condescending tone and elitist attitude leaves alot to be desired. You refer to people as ********, while you're the one doing the name calling. How old are you?
> 
> Been called a few things, but never an "elitist" I never referred to anyone as a *******. I believe a few people posting referred to themselves as ********. That pretty much sums up their mentality. I am old enough and have had enough "life experience" to give you a lesson on American history and economics.
> 
> I think all it will take to see an uprising is a significant piece of legislation that WILL directly affect the everyday lives of the "common man."
> 
> I think political history will show that the Republican Party has never and will never do anything for the "common man." If you believe anything to the contrary, they have also taken the word "gullable" out of the dictionary.


Whenever you're ready lay a "lesson on American History and Economics" on me, I'm ready. I'm always eager to learn something. However, I'd suggest that if you've been around as long as you claim to have been, act your age, and quit calling people "toothless hillbillies." In some areas, saying something like that will cause you to become toothless.
It seems like you can never have a political conversation with someone too long before one side starts to show their ignorance.

I'd also like to address the second part of your post. What you and many like you fail to understand is that we don't want ANY political party to do anything for us. We (the common man) want to be left alone. We like to believe that we can take personal responsibility for ourselves. When it comes to our economy, capitalism, when left alone, will flourish. Some will work hard and become wealthy (while employing thousands of middle class WORKERS) and some will be lazy and fall the the bottom. I'm not of the opinion that we should reward the lazy ones with handouts. 

Also, some of us "hillbillies" are a little smarter than you might think.


----------



## illinoislandog

Obviously you are not one of the smart ones. I am 48 years old and "loosing my teeth" is something I've never had to worry about, regardless of the "area" I am in. I addressed the toothless thing in my last post. I have also "educated" quite a few people like yourself. You personally are not having a political conversation. All you are doing is repeating terms, words and phrases. You do not have a clue what you are talking about nor can give definitions or explanations about what you post. Little buddy, that is exactly why I jumped in on this discussion. Believe me you do not speak for the "common man" People with your views and mentality are an isolated few in isolated areas.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

illinoislandog said:


> Obviously you are not one of the smart ones. I am 48 years old and "loosing my teeth" is something I've never had to worry about, regardless of the "area" I am in. I addressed the toothless thing in my last post. I have also "educated" quite a few people like yourself. You personally are not having a political conversation. All you are doing is repeating terms, words and phrases. You do not have a clue what you are talking about nor can give definitions or explanations about what you post. Little buddy, that is exactly why I jumped in on this discussion. Believe me you do not speak for the "common man" People with your views and mentality are an isolated few in isolated areas.


I know you were not talking to me but........
Well "little buddy" your wrong on several counts. Jeff is a very well informed free thinker like myself. We do not limit our view to the political rhetoric spewed by any political party because they are pretty much all the same. If you put a Democrat & a Republican in a bag & shook it, you could not tell the difference in them when you dumped them out. Politicians serve one group of people. That is special interest that line their pockets. It's been proven that unless you "donate" at least $10,000 a year to a politician then they could really care less what you think. The one exception to that rule is when representing a ideal that you submit to them, it will make them look good & gain more donations. Jeff has a lot more intelligent input into a debate like this than I have seen you bring to the table. You accuse others of "repeating terms, words and phrases" yet I see you spewing the rhetoric & accusations so common to political activist. As far as speaking for the "common man", I believe that myself, Jeff, & a number of other posters on this subject are a lot closer to the views of the common man than the political rhetoric I see you spewing. :wink:

If you have any original thoughts of your own feel free to share them but if all you have to bring to the debate is what you've been coached to say then you might want to save your time. We have heard all that before.


----------



## SCswitchback

illinoislandog said:


> Obviously you are not one of the smart ones. I am 48 years old and "loosing my teeth" is something I've never had to worry about, regardless of the "area" I am in. I addressed the toothless thing in my last post. *I have also "educated" quite a few people like yourself.* You personally are not having a political conversation. All you are doing is repeating terms, words and phrases. You do not have a clue what you are talking about nor can give *definitions or explanations about what you post.* Little buddy, that is exactly why I jumped in on this discussion. Believe me you do not speak for the "common man" People with *your views and mentality are an isolated few in isolated areas*.


I'm still waiting on my education. I have not "repeated terms and phrases." I've very plainly stated what I believe is wrong with our society and what I believe will/could make it better and what could make it worse. Tell me one explanation or definition you'd like me to give and I'll be obliged to give it. Instead of attacking me and other posters, say what you think and back it up with something. I can't recall you doing anything but disagreeing with others with out supporting your stance. And as far as me being in the minority, there sure seem to be alot more people on this thread agreeing with me that there are agreeing with you.

Now, what do you want a definition or explanation for?


----------



## Arrowflngr

It won't be Civil war, it will be revolution.
It will be up to the militia the 2nd amendment states should be maintained.


----------



## jna329

illinoislandog said:


> Obviously you are not one of the smart ones. I am 48 years old and "loosing my teeth" is something I've never had to worry about, regardless of the "area" I am in. I addressed the toothless thing in my last post. I have also "educated" quite a few people like yourself. You personally are not having a political conversation. All you are doing is repeating terms, words and phrases. You do not have a clue what you are talking about nor can give definitions or explanations about what you post. Little buddy, that is exactly why I jumped in on this discussion. Believe me you do not speak for the "common man" People with your views and mentality are an isolated few in isolated areas.


I believe this is directed towards SC, but whether it is him or me makes no difference - your attitude is still offensive. Tone it down a shade and give some facts to support your claims. I would love to hear what you have to say. I assure you that You will not sway Me, but currently you are feeding us more ammo. Think about your attitude. We are wrong because you say so; PROVE IT!


AR_Headhunter said:


> I know you were not talking to me but........
> Well "little buddy" your wrong on several counts. Jeff is a very well informed free thinker like myself. We do not limit our view to the political rhetoric spewed by any political party because they are pretty much all the same. If you put a Democrat & a Republican in a bag & shook it, you could not tell the difference in them when you dumped them out. Politicians serve one group of people. That is special interest that line their pockets. It's been proven that unless you "donate" at least $10,000 a year to a politician then they could really care less what you think. The one exception to that rule is when representing a ideal that you submit to them, it will make them look good & gain more donations. Jeff has a lot more intelligent input into a debate like this than I have seen you bring to the table. You accuse others of "repeating terms, words and phrases" yet I see you spewing the rhetoric & accusations so common to political activist. As far as speaking for the "common man", I believe that myself, Jeff, & a number of other posters on this subject are a lot closer to the views of the common man than the political rhetoric I see you spewing. :wink:
> 
> If you have any original thoughts of your own feel free to share them but if all you have to bring to the debate is what you've been coached to say then you might want to save your time. We have heard all that before.


I think he was talking to SC on this but regardless its not productive and is certainly showing what type of person this guy is.


----------



## whitehunter2

Wow i havent been around for a month or so and i see Americas bloody civil war is still being fought right here on archery talk....:mg:
i hear theres a Revolution a brewin in our great land thats really going to change things and it's being led by none other than Sara Palin:set1_rolf2:
thats America for you even the revolutions are phony:wink: imagine a revolt by the right wing of one of the very parties thats been screwing the American people for decades????????????????
our political system and gov has become Disney Land!


----------



## artemisrain

Interesting thread. All I have to say is the rights keep disappearing and I find talk of revolution in more and more places in our society every day. You don't even have to look for it anymore and you'll still find it. I won't delve into conspiracies or anything but I do feel that trouble is brewing. Honestly that's why I made sure I got into archery this year, like I said in that gun rights thread' can't take away from us what we can make with the trees and a little skill.


----------



## AR_Headhunter

artemisrain said:


> Interesting thread. All I have to say is the rights keep disappearing and I find talk of revolution in more and more places in our society every day. You don't even have to look for it anymore and you'll still find it. I won't delve into conspiracies or anything but I do feel that trouble is brewing. Honestly that's why I made sure I got into archery this year, like I said in that gun rights thread' can't take away from us what we can make with the trees and a little skill.


Very good point!


----------



## jna329

Food for thought!!!

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall.. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it..

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? Nancy Pelosi. She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red ..

If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ , it's because they want them in IRAQ 

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems..

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.

Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!


----------



## whitehunter2

Hey DUDES!! what happened to the Civil War??? 
AR i thought youd'a mounted yer horse and have led the charge right into the whitehouse by now????


----------



## Christopher67

jna329 said:


> Food for thought!!!
> 
> Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
> 
> Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?
> 
> Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?
> 
> You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.
> 
> You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.
> 
> You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.
> 
> You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.
> 
> You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.
> 
> One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
> 
> I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
> 
> I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.
> 
> Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
> What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall.. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it..
> 
> The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? Nancy Pelosi. She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
> 
> It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
> 
> If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.
> 
> If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red ..
> 
> If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ , it's because they want them in IRAQ
> 
> If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.
> 
> There are no insoluble government problems..
> 
> Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
> 
> Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.
> 
> They, and they alone, have the power.
> 
> They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.
> 
> Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.
> 
> We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!



Very well said! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## illinoislandog

whitehunter2 said:


> Hey DUDES!! what happened to the Civil War???
> AR i thought youd'a mounted yer horse and have led the charge right into the whitehouse by now????


:mg: AR's on a recruitment tour !:wink: For the Revolution !:mg: He's been spending a lot of time with his dictionary and wiki ! Hes  I think he dont like the Yankees and blacks and dems and rep and washington, ect...ect...ect...


----------



## proXarchery

What happened is everyone watchin whats going on. Hang on its going to be a bumpy ride


----------



## AR_Headhunter

I figured this thread would be brought back up with the socialist takeover of our health care. Good luck to my brothers, it is just beginning. :wink:


----------



## talon1961

Civil War, I doubt it and sure don't want to see it. However, the political fiasco we call our legislature, is about to be on trial by the voters. Healthcare for all, except for the congress and president, is supposed to be good right? Who is going to pay for it? How? Oh I get it, lets tax the rich, you know, the ones who work and pay taxes so those who don't work or pay taxes can get the health insurance they deserve. Appointing Czars who don't have to answer to congress, only the president....now there's something to be greatful for, right? Forcing companies with more than 25 employees to provide healthcare for their employees...I wonder how many will just cut back on employees to make up the difference in $$$ or how many will just decide to take their business south of the border or to Asia where they can continue. I sure as heck don't like the path to destruction our elected officials are taking us. I do believe that the pen is mightier than the sword and on election day, use the pen to make the statement. God Bless.


----------



## wolfkiller

yea it's begun, we had a group of religious wackos planning to kill a cop and then attack the funeral, uhhh lets see, attack a funeral with 500 or 600 armed people attending....DUHHH, kinda failed HUH??


----------



## titanium man

illinoislandog said:


> You are kidding me, right! This topic has nothing to do with the removal of hunting rights. A man from Arkansas started a "poll" to spew his anti United States rhetoric. Pictures of billboards, prepare for war, US civil war, revolution, call to arms, guns, violence, ect... Come on, give me a break! Anti-government garbage by a wannabe mercenary, right wing extremist surely can be responded to. You have a few individuals pretty much threatening other US citizens here. Thanks for the gramer lesun, you da man!





Christopher67 said:


> So where do you stand?  Who's the mercenary you speak of? :set1_fishing:



Just to keep things in perspective, and for future use, a mercenary fights for money, not a cause.


----------



## fap1800

illinoislandog said:


> I think he dont like the Yankees and blacks and dems and rep and washington, ect...ect...ect...


why would you propagate the stereotype that southern conservatives are racist? accusing someone of racism is a serious accusation even in jest. in doing so you show just how truly ignorant you are. not to mention you have a lot of growing up to do for someone that is 47 years old. perhaps you should go back to your mad magazine w avatar. i may have mentioned it in another thread...it suits you well.


----------



## konrad

*True Americanism*

One of the finest things about America’s Constitution is that it provides a PEACEFUL means of government replacement.
Only when the officials that have been voted out refuse to abdicate power at the appointed time, does the second amendment to the Constitution come into play.

Sadly, honest, hardworking people of this country have for too long allowed socialist/communist activists to gain control of our most basic of institutions…our educational system. Teaching a philosophy of “you owe me” and entitlements to our youth and not teaching history and Americanism has been systematically directed by school boards across the land for decades.

What we see now are the results of our working hard and leaving curriculum planning to “those who know better”, i.e. collage graduates who have also been inculcated with the same leftist agendas their collage professors fed them for multiple years, produces. These are exactly the folks who wind up in government offices, legislating us into bankruptcy and enslavement.

We don’t need a civil war. 
We need citizens to take part in their government from the ground up…even when things are going well. It takes time and effort but look what happens when it is left to the “elite”.
“An ounce of prevention of worth a pound of cure.”
Never were words spoken more true than those, now.

Get involved and stay involved. 
More importantly, get your children involved and teach them the true meaning of America so no one else can try to take it from them.


----------



## Christopher67

konrad said:


> One of the finest things about America’s Constitution is that it provides a PEACEFUL means of government replacement.
> Only when the officials that have been voted out refuse to abdicate power at the appointed time, does the second amendment to the Constitution come into play.
> 
> Sadly, honest, hardworking people of this country have for too long allowed socialist/communist activists to gain control of our most basic of institutions…our educational system. Teaching a philosophy of “you owe me” and entitlements to our youth and not teaching history and Americanism has been systematically directed by school boards across the land for decades.
> 
> What we see now are the results of our working hard and leaving curriculum planning to “those who know better”, i.e. collage graduates who have also been inculcated with the same leftist agendas their collage professors fed them for multiple years, produces. These are exactly the folks who wind up in government offices, legislating us into bankruptcy and enslavement.
> 
> We don’t need a civil war.
> We need citizens to take part in their government from the ground up…even when things are going well. It takes time and effort but look what happens when it is left to the “elite”.
> “An ounce of prevention of worth a pound of cure.”
> Never were words spoken more true than those, now.
> 
> Get involved and stay involved.
> More importantly, get your children involved and teach them the true meaning of America so no one else can try to take it from them.



*Amen!* very well said! :thumbs_up


----------



## fap1800

konrad said:


> Get involved and stay involved.
> More importantly, get your children involved and teach them the true meaning of America so no one else can try to take it from them.


because if we don't this number is only going to increase...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1


----------



## illinoislandog

fap1800 said:


> why would you propagate the stereotype that southern conservatives are racist? accusing someone of racism is a serious accusation even in jest. in doing so you show just how truly ignorant you are. not to mention you have a lot of growing up to do for someone that is 47 years old. perhaps you should go back to your mad magazine w avatar. i may have mentioned it in another thread...it suits you well.


Because a few have publicly stated their hate for blacks and yankees here on AT. My ignorance in responding to people like yourself? There you have it.


----------



## AKRuss

Ah, yes, the revolution. It will occur in November. The great thing is because you are a free US citizen, you don't even need a rifle. I will defend my country and my freedom by voting.


----------



## fap1800

illinoislandog said:


> Because a few have publicly stated their hate for blacks and yankees here on AT. My ignorance in responding to people like yourself? There you have it.


what a pathetic waste of a human being you are. at least we can take solace in the fact that the world's at least a somewhat better place knowing that you didn't procreate.


----------



## Christopher67

fap1800 said:


> what a pathetic waste of a human being you are. at least we can take solace in the fact that the world's at least a somewhat better place knowing that you didn't procreate.



:moviecorn:bolt:


----------



## illinoislandog

fap1800 said:


> what a pathetic waste of a human being you are. at least we can take solace in the fact that the world's at least a somewhat better place knowing that you didn't procreate.



"Responding to people like yourself" would garner this type of statement?
Little buddy, you would become a weeping little schoolgirl if you followed in my footsteps for one day. :wink:


----------



## wolfkiller

when and if ever there is a real revolution in our great land it will not come from right wingnut republicans who are trying to reinvent themselves with the likes of Sarah Palin and T& crumpet partiers, or nuts running around the woods in camo who claim they are the voice of the people, it will come from the from the largest meanist sleeping giant in the land, and that my freinds is the WORKING MAN!!! who right now is too busy trying to keep a job, pay a mortage, find a job or just plain survive....this man could give a crap about camo! confederate flags! he is not a right wing nut, republican and democrat parties mean nothing to him!!!
but once this giant wakes because he's been nudged enough watch out and see all the pretenders disappear....God Bless this Great Land and the American WORKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## fxdwgkd

He's Back! I thought you got banned? That is the problem. Some say he has slept to long! I for one agree, we slept through Bush stealing our freedoms with the Patriot Act. I think that it is just now that this "giant" has noticed something is not right. The American people are not a stupid as our government thinks we are. Labels are just that, labels. I guess I would be considered a right wing nut job because - I think our gov has over-reached it's boundaries, is getting to involved in our daily activities, taxing the crap out of me to pay for someone else. Our country has gotten soft. What ever happened to accountability? You know, where you are accoutable for your actions. You get what you earn, not what is given to you. You keep what is yours nad what you have earned? God Bless America, and the people fighting to keep her free from tyranny!


----------



## fap1800

illinoislandog said:


> "Responding to people like yourself" would garner this type of statement?
> Little buddy, you would become a weeping little schoolgirl if you followed in my footsteps for one day. :wink:


hate to break it to you hoss but i don't care to follow in a bigot's footsteps. you're part of the problem. individuals like yourself perpetuate the racial double standard that runs rampant in politics today...if you're white and denounce the president's policies then you're a racist. if you're part of the tea party movement, you're slandered and pronounced a racist and if you're from the south then you're most definitely a racist, which btw you confirmed with your previous derogatory statement. you let a "few" here on archery talk allow you to come to that conclusion? you're obviously a piece of liberal excrement but at least i don't let that influence my opinion of every other liberal i have a discussion with.


----------



## rocklocker2

*service personell*

somehow i dont see military being ordered to fight Americans.most service people would remember who they are and refuse to take up arms against other Americans if ordered by the government.


----------



## d3coy_duck

rocklocker2 said:


> somehow i dont see military being ordered to fight Americans.most service people would remember who they are and refuse to take up arms against other Americans if ordered by the government.


Good point! From the discussion we were having on another thread, perhaps it is time to continue this discussion...........


----------



## SMOKES

illinoislandog said:


> Because a few have publicly stated their hate for blacks and yankees here on AT. My ignorance in responding to people like yourself? There you have it.


Does the few make the whole racist
BTW I am a very deicated Southerner
my blodd runs grey


----------



## S.F. steve

this post is rediculous and it sucks. if you don't like the current crop of politicians vote them out. if you don't like living here check and see if canada will take you. the last time this country saw bad times was in the 1930's and 1940's. thats when people died of starvation and being home less. now we are going to have a civil war because obama had to prop up the economy with programs some would consider socialist. FDR had to do the same thing to save us during the depression. every body on this forum has a computer to play with and a roof over there heads. if you think we are going to have a civil war because money is tight and unemployment is high you are a nut. plain and simple. we've got it good whether you want to admit it or not. yes there has been a few bumps in the road but civil war? i don't think so.


----------



## Questie

chasemukluk said:


> Wow...right wing...left wing...maybe that's the problem...I think it's time for a new political party...
> A Civil War? Seriously? You must be a radical right wing to think like that...
> 
> I think this GREAT COUNTRY needs a political revolution...a political party that is truly for the people...I could care less if a person is Right wing or left wing...what I care about is first; what that person does day in and day out to make this "world" a better place. Second, what that person does day in and day out to be respectful to their country, family, religion, and everything else that is "good" in this world.
> 
> This poll does none of the above and neither would a Civil War...grow up...
> 
> Question: You can honestly tell me you would point a gun at someone, pull the trigger, and kill them because you disagree?!?!? I hope that answer is no...


Thank you. That is EXACTLY how I feel. We don't need a Civil War. We need change, which is why Obama got so far - he played off people's hopes and then crushed them. He's a smart man - but many adversaries often are. We need REAL hope, not that Obama s**t but a revolution.

I truly am fed up with his lies.


----------



## ChristopherI

AR_Headhunter said:


> Maybe I am. Over 200 years ago there was also a group of "radical right wingers". They were called our founding fathers. Ever heard of them?


AMEN!:darkbeer:


----------

