# Your Theories on Back Tension



## subconsciously

One highly decorated coaches theory:

The Tension is "Back Tension" and Direction is an angular movement. Throughout the "Follow-through" the archer must continue to feel the tension in their back from the scapulae coming together. This is not just because the *bow side scapula is coming in towards the spine, but because the chest is opening up due to the angular back movement.*

Another highly decorated coaches theory:

You dont want the bow sight to move, so I recommend contracting only the draw side rhomboid, which move the elbow up and behind the head very slightly.....The archery industry has *mistakenly told shooters to squeeze both rhomboids together.*

Input please.


----------



## Daiwateampenn

i though only move the back muscle from the draw arm, and the bow arm should stay firm, and relax.
this is wat my local archery coach tips to me....

kindly correct me if im wrong, recently really struggling back tension with the hinge release..... (terrible shot)


----------



## slicer

It's all in the release process IMO. Can you make the bow go boom smooth as butter and non-stop once started...giving the pin and bow freedom to float wherever it wants. For me, it's that process that makes the hold crazy steady for an extented period. More of a mental/art than a anatomical road map? I also think it's important to note something else:

Concentration levels on the spot. Some need to "burn a hole" others like myself need to just stare at it...like driving down the road gazing at the horizon or another person when talking to them...casual focus. Experimenting with different levels of focus on your spot can make a profound effect on your bodies subconscious responses. 

So my answer is mind/perception over matter/mechanics....let your body respond how it wants, get your head and focus levels in the right place.


----------



## aread

Sub, you opened a can of worms on this one! 

IMO, how consistently an archer executes is what makes the biggest difference between the top shooters and the rest of us. It probably doesn't matter which way you do it as long as you do it exactly the same every time. And Slicer makes a very good point on mental focus. It's difficult to keep that focus if you don't trust your shot or are changing it every time you shoot.

Len Cardinale and Larry Wise seem to agree on one point and that is that when you get to full draw with all your anchors and your back muscles set, don't change anything. Don't add, don't soften. How well you can keep what you set up at FD through follow through will play a large part in how well you shoot. 

There is a more to it than this and at the same time a lot less. We can study how we set this muscle and that joint and figure out the optimum way to follow throught. But once we get all this sorted out and have figured out "MY SHOT", just go to the line and keep it simple. This is why a written shot sequence is so helpful. It provides an organized way to develop and maintain an optimum shot.

On each arrow of Len's drills, he tells us to look at one part of our shot at a time and ask, "how did I set it and what did I get for it?". In other words, find what works best for each of us and ingrain it to the subconscious level. 

For every top archer that is doing it one way, you can probably point to another that is successful doing it another way. But both of them are doing it the same way on every arrow. It just takes a lot of arrows and there is nothing wrong with that! 

JMHO,
Allen


----------



## subconsciously

Your welcome - :set1_CHAPLIN3:


----------



## da white shoe

How can someone even shoot a bow while contracting both sides. I can't see how anyone with sights on their bow could possibly make it work. It seems like it would cause a great deal of torque, not to mention what it would do to your sight picture.

For me, using back tension accomplishes three important elements that make up a good bow shot, if done correctly... and that can be the tricky part for me sometimes!

1. It allows me to utilize a very large, slow-to-react muscle group to trigger the shot, instead of a muscle that is too closely connected to my brain, such as my finger. I never want my brain to ever be in control of when the shot goes off. Right off the bat...
using one muscle group is going to be better than using two... in my mind, anyway.

2. It allows me to relax the other muscles I shouldn't be using, thereby greatly reducing movement in my sight pins. When shooting a bow, pin movement is half the battle. How do you keep your sight steady if your bow arm is flexing out to the side?

3. If I'm doing it right, it eliminates even the slightest possibility that I will creep into the shot.

Am I wrong on any of this? :smile:


----------



## subconsciously

da white shoe said:


> How can someone even shoot a bow while contracting both sides. I can't see how anyone with sights on their bow could possibly make it work. It seems like it would cause a great deal of torque, not to mention what it would do to your sight picture.
> 
> For me, using back tension accomplishes three important elements that make up a good bow shot, if done correctly... and that can be the tricky part for me sometimes!
> 
> 1. It allows me to utilize a very large, slow-to-react muscle group to trigger the shot, instead of a muscle that is too closely connected to my brain, such as my finger. I never want my brain to ever be in control of when the shot goes off. Right off the bat...
> using one muscle group is going to be better than using two... in my mind, anyway.
> 
> 2. It allows me to relax the other muscles I shouldn't be using, thereby greatly reducing movement in my sight pins. When shooting a bow, pin movement is half the battle. How do you keep your sight steady if your bow arm is flexing out to the side?
> 
> 3. If I'm doing it right, it eliminates even the slightest possibility that I will creep into the shot.
> 
> Am I wrong on any of this? :smile:


Absolutely not.


----------



## mike 66

:shade: this is gonna be a long story; .. i agree 100% with subconscious thats all you hear squeeze both together,maybe its lost in the translation.... over the years trying to tell people just how it feels......... i think if done right not cheating the release this creates its own follow through......


----------



## Stubby'smom

Good thread! I'd like to read more opinions!


----------



## Top_Pin_Archery

Stubby'smom said:


> Good thread! I'd like to read more opinions!


Agree!


----------



## [email protected]

Let me further muddy the water here.Ever part of form can also be totally textbook wrong but as long as its repeatable and you are totally immerssed in aiming you can have a good shot.I believe sometimes we invlove too much rocket science and need to proceed along the lines of what DA SHOE describes of staying outta the bows way.IMHO there are many ways to arrive but if at the end your totally immerssed in aiming the result will be good.Look at how many different golf swings there are,how many times do you think JIM FURYK was told his swing was wrong?However at the moment of impact he is correct and his form is repeatable.


----------



## Thermodude

I'm learning to use BT, so far so good but one thing I have noticed is if I contract both sides I pull left everytime. I'm a right hand shooter. If I only concentrate on the right side of my back I'm good.


----------



## subconsciously

I will say that I agree with all the above statements to a degree. We have several different coaching styles from the worlds best coaches. From Kisik Lee, Bernie, Wise, Cardinale etc....

I believe there are many ways, but one should agree that it is from the list of coaches above that champions were made and those champions tend to stay on top. There must be some "proof in the pudding". I'm sure the top shooters have all been laid the foundation of good alignment, proper stance and follow through, but add their own little twist to the things they do. Me being a conscious aimer and watching Brady Ellison being a subconscious aimer makes one realize there is more than one way to slice the pie. Not to mention him being on an entirely different level.

I believe to be true that archery is 90% mental and 10% physical. No matter how good or bad your form is, if you do not have the right attitude, you will never get the to podium. Of course getting to the podium is one thing, staying there is another.

Thats my .02.


----------



## [email protected]

Graet post sub totally agree you nailed it buddy!!


----------



## slicer

Who has Bernie coached that is or has been a top archer? Just curious, I know he has a book out that a lot of you seem to like.


----------



## subconsciously

Joella Bates. Randy Chapel. Jeff Human. Don't know of any top world archers he has coached as of recent. He has coached many state and national champions. Bernie has a real entrepreneurs spirit if you know what I mean.


----------



## aread

slicer said:


> Who has Bernie coached that is or has been a top archer? Just curious, I know he has a book out that a lot of you seem to like.


Bernie did a very good job of writing it down. Almost all of the things he teaches came from Len Cardinale. "entrepreneurs spirit if you know what I mean" is a good way to express it.  The parts of Bernie's book where he stays away from selling stuff are excellent. 

I've worked with Len and I think [email protected] has too. So we aren't quoting Bernie, we're quoting the same source that Bernie used. If you have the opportunity to spend some time with Len, I recommend that you do. He breaks down the process of shooting a bow better than anyone else.

JMHO,
Allen


----------



## mike 66

aread said:


> Bernie did a very good job of writing it down. Almost all of the things he teaches came from Len Cardinale. "entrepreneurs spirit if you know what I mean" is a good way to express it.  The parts of Bernie's book where he stays away from selling stuff are excellent.
> 
> I've worked with Len and I think [email protected] has too. So we aren't quoting Bernie, we're quoting the same source that Bernie used. If you have the opportunity to spend some time with Len, I recommend that you do. He breaks down the process of shooting a bow better than anyone else.
> 
> JMHO,
> Allen


:shade: i will have to agree 100%


----------



## winning

I am gonna jump in head first here is as much as for myself as a thinking out loud practice , as it is an opinion. 
I see the words back tension get thrown around a lot. Larry Wise seems to have put the most "scientific " research into the subject. He has worked with Doctors and who's its to be able to actually break down the movements and mussel groups involved in "proper back tension RELEASE " His theory seems to be the common vein among todays best COMPOUND archers. Larry by no means invented "back tension 'but has the best scientific explanation that exist. It runs almost parallel to Lees teachings as far as "back tension release " is concerned. Notice the use of back tension as a form of releasing the arrow. In my understandings of human anatomy "back tension " is almost always used when shooting an arrow , thus the ongoing saga , this is back tension , that is back tension , etc , etc , etc ... I will venture to say that there is but one anatomically correct way of releasing an arrow with back tension. It does not in any way incorporate any individual movement from the hand , or fingers , no twisting , or turning at the wrist , no see sawing around a finger or any other such movements.
The bow hand must be relaxed , the release hand must only hold the tension needed to keep the mechanical release attached to the bow , this is achieved by an overly relaxed 
Release hand and hooking the release in the last digits . The weight after drawing the bow must be transferred out of the hands and arms , and transferred to the larger back muscles. 
In order to release the arrow using a hook or hinge ( back tension release ) the release must rotate ,
In order to release the arrow using "proper back tension , with a back tension release " The release must be rotated from movement from the archers back. 
In order to shoot back tension properly , the rotation that comes from the back must be subconscious and unintentional.

Once learned it is very simple to spot an archer using " proper back tension " as a release mechanism. There are very clear tell tale signs. Release fingers , release angle , and follow thru make it very clear.


----------



## [email protected]

The process of back tension is completely useless if if not ingrained subconsciously into your sequence.It is at this point in the archery shot that i think LEN CARDINALE rises above the rest.Len states the most common mistake among all archers is not being totally immerssed in aiming. Meaning you cant be thinking about any motors or parts of your form after you commit. When this is achieved i believe this is the purest shot in archery and what we all strive for . Personally i dont think Lens teachings here can be improved upon and i believe him to be totally correct.Much the same as Da Shoe speaks to get your sequence down and stay outta the bows way.Easy to describe very hard to do consitently! Lens bridge program has humbled many of archers myself being one of them.If i had one choice for learning the shot the choice for me is a no brainer IMHO.


----------



## aread

winning said:


> …..
> In order to release the arrow using a hook or hinge ( back tension release ) the release must rotate ,
> In order to release the arrow using "proper back tension , with a back tension release " The release must be rotated from movement from the archers back.
> In order to shoot back tension properly , the rotation that comes from the back must be subconscious and unintentional. ….


Winning, you make some excellent points. My question is whether "proper" back tension execution is necessary. There was a thread early this year in which several of the better pro's said that they used a little finger or wrist in their execution.

IMO, perfectly proper BT execution isn't necessary, but as you posted, subconscious execution is necessary for a good shot. Like [email protected], I'm a Len Cardinale fan. One of the better Lenny Quotes is that "Execution is NOT done", It is a result of what was set up and allowed to happen while the archer is free to immerse in aiming. 

And count me as one more who has been humbled by Len's bridge program. 

Allen


----------



## slicer

Kisik Lee wants conscious execution and subconscious aim, as does I believe Terry Wunderle

I can't help but feel this is a set up....because you get to a point where the execution becomes subconscious as well....from focusing on it and perfecting it for thousands and thousands of arrows with a target present. Nothing left to do once both execution and aim are subconscious but get in the zone day after day.


----------



## archeryshooter

Sounds good but I cant makeup my mind once I get to full draw should I keep pulling till the shot goes which seems to make me shake more or should I set and wait till it goes which sometimes gives me a low weak shot but aims well I need to pick one


----------



## slicer

archeryshooter said:


> Sounds good but I cant makeup my mind once I get to full draw should I keep pulling till the shot goes which seems to make me shake more or should I set and wait till it goes which sometimes gives me a low weak shot but aims well I need to pick one


Keep shooting and experimenting and you'll find something that works for you, everyone does it differently.....Something else to try is Instead of trying to pull straight back into the wall, try and work your elbow back behind you. If your hinge is set with some travel you will need to relax index or firm up ring finger as you do this. If you shoot a click, the bow should easily go off from this small movement after you anchor and click and align with target. I like this method as it activates the proper muscles and the feeling becomes ingrained...after a few shots, your body just starts to do it on it it's own....elbow needs to be aligned with or slightly above arrow, otherwise your shoulder blades collide and you get that locked up feeling.


----------



## subconsciously

After several weeks of "experimantation" and tons of reading. I will have to say I am more comfortable with Kisik Lee's technique. His technique focus extremely on process, and aiming only starts just prior to expansion. 

Lately I have been squeezing both scapulae together during the process part of the shot. During aiming the the draw arm scapulae contracts and the shot is executed during "expansion". The bow arm scapula remains motionless until the shot is fired during the expansion stage. When executed properly the shot "feels" awsome. The pin is very very steady. I feel draw length is extremely critical with this method. Im still working on it. Shot a 55x last nite and it should of been a 57. Still workning on my preload on my Just cuz. When my aiming goes pat the comfort zone my shots always go low right. I feel as I am pulling the shot with my draw hand. Next will be putting a lense in my scope housing, but BHFS is still my thing.

.02


----------



## chromes-z7

Daiwateampenn said:


> i though only move the back muscle from the draw arm, and the bow arm should stay firm, and relax.
> this is wat my local archery coach tips to me....
> 
> kindly correct me if im wrong, recently really struggling back tension with the hinge release..... (terrible shot)


that is what I hear, I believe Larry WIse is his name? he is a professional coach for BT and he told me that using both back muscles is BS, He said you keep holding arm still and you use your elbow to allow the BT to go off. Its not his words exactly but, thats what he said in a nutshell


----------



## subconsciously

chromes-z7 said:


> that is what I hear, I believe Larry WIse is his name? he is a professional coach for BT and he told me that using both back muscles is BS, He said you keep holding arm still and you use your elbow to allow the BT to go off. Its not his words exactly but, thats what he said in a nutshell


I have Larry's book and his video. Lots of good info. Larry teaches nothing that I know on expansion. Which is fine. There is more than one way to shoot a bow accurately and I will not argue that point. One has to read, study and practice the NTS method to understand it. To say it is BS - well that is opinion.


----------



## slicer

There's a post on here somewhere from Toby Ragsdale explaining how Terry told him the shot should feel. Terry Ragsdale explained it as a push/pull with both shoulder blades trying to touch. There is a sweet spot you find with the push/pull forces that makes the pin just sit there and the bow go POW. 

I am having a good run just feeling some movement in my elbow and LAN2 area....and focusing on that movement and nothing else. The post from Ragsdale opened my eyes to the push pullers though.


----------



## subconsciously

I've shot with Toby several times. He's a hoot!!


----------



## Mrs.Granett

Len Cardinale still gives lessons at ranges throughout NJ--reach out to him today! 609-713-8216

He is a treasure in archery:

Archery Hall of Fame:
http://www.archeryhalloffame.com/Cardinale Len.html

Bowhunters Hall of Fame:

http://www.bowhuntershalloffame.com/members/cardinalelen/index.html

NJ Hall of Fame:
http://united-bowhunters-of-nj-bowhunting-nj-outdoors-conservationi.eggzack.com/njb-hall-of-fame


----------



## aread

Mrs.Granett said:


> Len Cardinale still gives lessons at ranges throughout NJ--reach out to him today! 609-713-8216
> 
> He is a treasure in archery [/url]


 I totally agree! The only problem is that he's not getting any younger. If you wait, he may not be available. 

Len knows more about the archery shot and explains it better than anyone I've ever heard of. 

JMHO,
Allen


----------



## [email protected]

I wish Len would make another video from soup to nuts.Every archer would need to own it.I have his coaches won and i cant tell you how many times ive used it.


----------



## slicer

Al Henderson and Dee Wilde said something that really clicked for me. Back tension is a misleading term, what it really means is "continuing your draw". Now, what clicked for me was thinking "continuous draw" but at anchor your hand stops and no more arrow is pulled across the rest....but internally if you keep trying to draw your shoulder/scapula/rhomboid/etc will build pressure and start to pivot the elbow back around. If feels like a lot of movement, but on video you can hardly see it. This is similar to Kisik Lee/Larry Wise LAN2 type idea. 

So back tension is a result of your intentions with the shot, to many try to isolate a specific muscle or body part and squeeze it or control it and hope that leads to something good. Back tension is just naturally drawing the bow to anchor, and finishing the draw without moving the arrow back into a longer DL. However, with expansion you may see a teeny-tiny bit of arrow coming back, barely visible....which is why a lot of compound/hinge shooters who shoot this way prefer to shoot off a wall with some give.

If you shoot an old two wheel bow with no wall it is very very easy to do with the freedom of no stop peg....with a lot of bows today, people are drawing to a draw STOP, and that's what they do with the shot. They come off a high weight and drop off to no holding weight at all, hit the draw stop and they stop, calibrate, and try to start again. 

I took the draw stop peg out of my bow last night to get a free continuous draw feeling with a hinge release. I ended up finding the sweet spot for my body to anchor in, had a friend mark my arrow....then put the draw stop peg back in and fine tuned DL by a couple twists in the string to get the arrow lined up identical. Ended up lengthening it 1/8".

Is this the best way for everyone to shoot? Probably not.....as many hinges you find today are very fast and don't need "worked" with the body forces pulling against a tight but slightly movable string. And with a trigger and a harder wall you can get the same feeling by simply never stopping the squeeze all through the shot, starting the second you anchor.

But, IMO learning to shoot this way FIRST, will build a solid foundation for ANY other method of shooting as it takes the hold out of muscles that you don't want holding and helps an archer learn the natural gradual increase to activate a release.....or even to allow the fingers to be "pushed aside" from the bow string for a finger shooter.

Holding weight becomes more critical as it's easier to do when you have higher holding weights to help compress and activate those back muscles.

All of these physical descriptions....and it is very easy to learn physically....the mental part and learning to just shoot the bow with the sight getting in the way of your focus on the target is the real challenge.

With today's top pros this style is most obvious to my eye in Braden Gillenthien.


----------



## archeryshooter

slicer said:


> Al Henderson and Dee Wilde said something that really clicked for me. Back tension is a misleading term, what it really means is "continuing your draw". Now, what clicked for me was thinking "continuous draw" but at anchor your hand stops and no more arrow is pulled across the rest....but internally if you keep trying to draw your shoulder/scapula/rhomboid/etc will build pressure and start to pivot the elbow back around. If feels like a lot of movement, but on video you can hardly see it. This is similar to Kisik Lee/Larry Wise LAN2 type idea.
> 
> So back tension is a result of your intentions with the shot, to many try to isolate a specific muscle or body part and squeeze it or control it and hope that leads to something good. Back tension is just naturally drawing the bow to anchor, and finishing the draw without moving the arrow back into a longer DL. However, with expansion you may see a teeny-tiny bit of arrow coming back, barely visible....which is why a lot of compound/hinge shooters who shoot this way prefer to shoot off a wall with some give.
> 
> If you shoot an old two wheel bow with no wall it is very very easy to do with the freedom of no stop peg....with a lot of bows today, people are drawing to a draw STOP, and that's what they do with the shot. They come off a high weight and drop off to no holding weight at all, hit the draw stop and they stop, calibrate, and try to start again.
> 
> I took the draw stop peg out of my bow last night to get a free continuous draw feeling with a hinge release. I ended up finding the sweet spot for my body to anchor in, had a friend mark my arrow....then put the draw stop peg back in and fine tuned DL by a couple twists in the string to get the arrow lined up identical. Ended up lengthening it 1/8".
> 
> Is this the best way for everyone to shoot? Probably not.....as many hinges you find today are very fast and don't need "worked" with the body forces pulling against a tight but slightly movable string. And with a trigger and a harder wall you can get the same feeling by simply never stopping the squeeze all through the shot, starting the second you anchor.
> 
> But, IMO learning to shoot this way FIRST, will build a solid foundation for ANY other method of shooting as it takes the hold out of muscles that you don't want holding and helps an archer learn the natural gradual increase to activate a release.....or even to allow the fingers to be "pushed aside" from the bow string for a finger shooter.
> 
> Holding weight becomes more critical as it's easier to do when you have higher holding weights to help compress and activate those back muscles.
> 
> All of these physical descriptions....and it is very easy to learn physically....the mental part and learning to just shoot the bow with the sight getting in the way of your focus on the target is the real challenge.
> 
> With today's top pros this style is most obvious to my eye in Braden Gillenthien.


They sound spot on with that. I have played with that off and on and I think doing just that keeps your mind away from whats going on the back end and keeping it on aiming where it should be and I have also noticed by keep pulling gets rid of those low shots from a lazy bow arm


----------



## Big Ragu

[email protected] said:


> the process of back tension is completely useless if if not ingrained subconsciously into your sequence.it is at this point in the archery shot that i think len cardinale rises above the rest.len states the most common mistake among all archers is not being totally immerssed in aiming. Meaning you cant be thinking about any motors or parts of your form after you commit. When this is achieved i believe this is the purest shot in archery and what we all strive for . Personally i dont think lens teachings here can be improved upon and i believe him to be totally correct.much the same as da shoe speaks to get your sequence down and stay outta the bows way.easy to describe very hard to do consitently! Lens bridge program has humbled many of archers myself being one of them.if i had one choice for learning the shot the choice for me is a no brainer imho.


amen!


----------



## aread

John Dudley has several great articles on his website that were originally published in the European archery magazines. He is no Len Cardinale, but he does a great job describing various parts of the shot. 

One of his articles deals with the bow shoulder. He wrote that it should be kept down and forward as opposed to down and back. The closer you pull your scapula to your spine, the less range of motion that you have on the draw side scapula. 

The article came about when he was a spectator at the Nimes shoot. He was able to watch the archers he usually competed against. He knew when an archer was about to make a poor shot when an archer pulled their bow side scapula down & back in an effort to hold steadier. 

I tried this out and found that he is right, at least for me. A down and back bow side scapula allows you to hold steadier, but makes it more difficult to get the shot off. Down and forward is a little less steady, but usually results in a better shot because I can execute it with less overall tension and can keep a more consistent rhythm. Either is steadier than a high bow shoulder.

So in answer to Sub's original question, I think that the second coach is right:

_You dont want the bow sight to move, so I recommend contracting only the draw side rhomboid, which move the elbow up and behind the head very slightly.....The archery industry has mistakenly told shooters to squeeze both rhomboids together._

Back tension execution works better if the bow side rhomboids are engaged only to the extent that they assist in keeping the bow shoulder down. The active part of execution should be in the draw side only.

Your thoughts on this?

Allen


----------



## subconsciously

I agree with you Allen. To a point. There are different strokes for different folks.

On KL's style of "process" both rhomboids are used. On *execution only* the draw side scapula is used. His theories are all on angular motion in the shot. I cannot discount his theories....Brady Ellison. I will have a greater understaning of KL's shot process by next Monday. He has done a lot of research in kinetics on his shot process. I have read many of John Dudley's articles and they are great.


----------



## [email protected]

This is my opinion only. I think sometimes we get bogged down with information overload.I have yet to be convinced that any modern coach can improve on the teachings of Al Henderson and Len Cardinale.I know Al and Len were close and that Len picked his brain. They explain the shot better than anybody else.To me the archer at the line cannot have medical terms in his head for alignment.KISS applies here.Are there innovations in teaching to a degree yes. Theres nothing new that both Al & Len didnt cover.Go to the source.IMHO


----------



## TargetOz

Loved reading this thread.

In my shot sequence, though obviously focused on the target, I've found that unless I feel my right rhomboid working and have a relaxed hand my shot will be off. Absolutely love that feeling when it does because my shots are on the mark, the execution and follow through are smooth and I'm not 'pulling' till the shot goes off, the hinge in a sence is an extension to my arm.


----------



## aread

[email protected] said:


> This is my opinion only. I think sometimes we get bogged down with information overload.I have yet to be convinced that any modern coach can improve on the teachings of Al Henderson and Len Cardinale.I know Al and Len were close and that Len picked his brain. They explain the shot better than anybody else.To me the archer at the line cannot have medical terms in his head for alignment.KISS applies here.Are there innovations in teaching to a degree yes. Theres nothing new that both Al & Len didnt cover.Go to the source.IMHO


You are right. It's way too easy to overthink all of this. But I enjoy reading guys like Dudley to see if they have "discovered" the things that Len was teaching decades ago. It seems that the better the archer, the more closely he (or she) agree's with Len. 

Dave Cousins once said in a seminar "I don't aim. I just stair at the center of the X and imagine my arrow going there". That's a pretty good description of being immersed in aiming. 

Len's teachings are less about how to shoot a bow and more about how to learn to shoot a bow & develop the mental part of it. Dudly, Cousins, Ryals, Broadwater & a few others can provide good information on the specifics of how to shoot. Even with the archers who work with him on a regular basis, Len doesn't give many specifics. He gives general principles and sends them to the bale to figure out the little things that work for them.

JMHO,
Allen


----------



## [email protected]

Al Henderson despised the scientific explanations for back tension believing it did more harm than good.Instead Al wouldnt even discuss it in his coaching.He simply told his students to concentrate on the elbow of their draw arm being held back in position without creeping forward.The key here is think & hold the elbow back.As the student perfected the elbow habit the natural use of the proper back muscles was the result.Now the student no clue he was learning proper back tension relieving him of all the jargon and anxiety.If your lucky enough to have Als book understanding wnning archery guard it if not get one.Al and Len were very close and their teachings coincide.Two brilliant coaches and i feel they KISS the best.


----------



## Thermodude

This is a great thread!!


----------



## [email protected]

So how do you describe something that is done or maintained by complete feel? 
First you have to isolate where the feeling is.

That would be the building of muscle tightening in the lower trapezious just inside the corner of the scupla on the drawing side of the back. Lan 2 is to help you localize where that feeling is and can aid in increasing it.

But this is not enough either, because, if your form is incorrect, then other muscles of the body will have to build tension in order to maintain an in-efficient structure. 

Ideally, the best case is all bone contact and only bone contact on either side of that muscle. i.e. bone on contact points where forces of the bow comes into the body.

On the drawing side: There is nothing but bones from scapula to the finger tips. the only muscles engaged are the finger flexors for hooking or finger flexors for rotating the release (if needed). If you are using muscles out in the shoulder, than is likely that drawing force of the bow has not been brought close enough to the spine to take advantage that falcrum affect that the scapula can provide. i.e. the drawing shoulder is forward and the elbow hinge cannot bring the force of the bow close enough towards the spine. The scupla has the ability to move the shoulder behind the spine. The scapula is part of the shoulder socket. Flexibility is needed to do this.

On the bow side: The bones are in line from the spine to the end to the wrist on the palm side of the hand.
If you bend at the bow arm shoulder, than as back tension increase, so also does the shoulder muscles holding the angle have to increase tension. 

If you bend at the bow arm elbow than as back tension increase, so also does the elbow muscles holding the angle have to increase tension.

Granted that aiming will subconsciously maintain these angles, but the ability to feel the back tension is deminished due the lack of bone to bone connection against the bow forces. The muscle is not isolated and the phsycial feedback you get is not as direct or dynamic. 

Maintaining the angles also decreases accuracy. I imagine that is why stabilizer weight has gone so high.

The move of back tension should start out as a pebble of snow on a mountain. As it roles, it starts slow, it builds ,faster and faster, and is held until the finish position is held still.

RACockrell


----------



## [email protected]

duplicate


----------



## slicer

Can you tell me what the governor is for lan2 usage? IE: at what point in the shot is the intention of moving lan2 stopping..or does the intention ever stop with NTS?


----------



## subconsciously

For those who do not understand what LAN2 is……It is not a part of the body, but an imaginary location near the shoulder. It is a concept that the archer can use to visualize the movement of the draw shoulder. The draw coming to anchor is the only linear movement. LAN2 movement must be maintained - gradually increased- so that the shot is executed bio-mechanically correct. 

The draw arm stops and the tension that was built into the draw arm is bled down into the back. The back is now pulling "through" the shot. External movement to an internal movement. It is through "expansion" that the shot is executed during the aiming process.

I know I'm preaching to the choir but someone may get some understanding.


----------

