# Attendance at Darrington



## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

I just counted the attendance at Darrington.

Pro 35
Adult 95
Senior 159 48.773% of the total S-61, SS-68, MS-30
Junior 35

Total 326

The total is about where Darrington has been.


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## bopo2 (Dec 7, 2008)

What was the attendance count for pa last year?


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

bopo2 said:


> What was the attendance count for pa last year?


The results are on the NFAA webpage and since there were 500 or so shooters, why don't you count them up. I have too many sharpie tic marks on my screen from counting the 326 at Darrington.


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## bopo2 (Dec 7, 2008)

FS560 said:


> The results are on the NFAA webpage and since there were 500 or so shooters, why don't you count them up. I have too many sharpie tic marks on my screen from counting the 326 at Darrington.


I was just wondering over all attendance that's all


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

bopo2 said:


> What was the attendance count for pa last year?


499


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## bopo2 (Dec 7, 2008)

thanks Mike:thumbs_up


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

FS560 said:


> The results are on the NFAA webpage and since there were 500 or so shooters, why don't you count them up. *I have too many sharpie tic marks on my screen* from counting the 326 at Darrington.


Just use some "white out' to fix that...


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

I assume that you do know how to determine if an engineer has been using your computer.

There is white out on the screen.

I resemble that remark.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

bopo2 said:


> What was the attendance count for pa last year?


bopo2, you can usually count on a courteous response from Mike LaPera but don't expect it from jim quarles or several other nfaa official types. The thing you need to do is remember that response the next time you dues come due. As if the Nfaa wasn't losing enough membership.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

itbeso said:


> bopo2, you can usually count on a courteous response from Mike LaPera but don't expect it from jim quarles or several other nfaa official types. The thing you need to do is remember that response the next time you dues come due. As if the Nfaa wasn't losing enough membership.


Maybe 560 remarks come from frustration with the system


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

brtesite said:


> Maybe 560 remarks come from frustration with the system


Mike, we all get frustrated with the system from time to time. You gave a courteous response to the question but Jim has a history of being less than polite to posters. In the old days, The NFAA was pretty much the only game in town so attendance was much better. Nowadays we have competition from ASA, IBO, IFAA, FITA, and a lot of other sports, I don't think it helps our sport to add classes every year, change the rules every year, and try to accomodate every idea put out there to try to get an award in everyones hand. That is just my opinion, and for the record, the NFAA is where I started and is still first in my heart as far as archery organizations go. You have been around a long time also. Someone, i.e. the council or board of directors, needs to have the backbone to right the ship. Sure, we may lose a few initially, but I doubt it, but in the long run we will be stronger if we get rid of a lot of these classes and make a National Championship mean something. Again, just my opinion.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

itbeso said:


> bopo2, you can usually count on a courteous response from Mike LaPera but don't expect it from jim quarles or several other nfaa official types. The thing you need to do is remember that response the next time you dues come due. As if the Nfaa wasn't losing enough membership.


itbeso, Apparently you did not notice or failed to understand that I counted up the attendance at Darrington from the website and then suggested that bopo2 count up 2012 himself from the same source that I did for 2013. And furthermore, you seem to be unable to recognize a tongue in cheek comment, perhaps due to hatred of the NFAA.

But since you only ever listen to yourself anyway, why would anyone expect anything else from a person obviously afraid to identify himself. Unlike you, I am not afraid to identify myself and have always displayed my real name.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

itbeso said:


> Mike, we all get frustrated with the system from time to time. You gave a courteous response to the question but Jim has a history of being less than polite to posters. In the old days, The NFAA was pretty much the only game in town so attendance was much better. Nowadays we have competition from ASA, IBO, IFAA, FITA, and a lot of other sports, I don't think it helps our sport to add classes every year, change the rules every year, and try to accomodate every idea put out there to try to get an award in everyones hand. That is just my opinion, and for the record, the NFAA is where I started and is still first in my heart as far as archery organizations go. You have been around a long time also. Someone, i.e. the council or board of directors, needs to have the backbone to right the ship. Sure, we may lose a few initially, but I doubt it, but in the long run we will be stronger if we get rid of a lot of these classes and make a National Championship mean something. Again, just my opinion.


itbeso, While I do not like your keyboard attitude and tactics, I do agree with you on the issue of styles and national championships. We should only have one champion at any event, whether it be national championship or club shoot.

On the one hand you complain about me in the vein of NFAA losing membership, but then speak of doing away with classes (styles). We have gone so far down the path of excessive numbers of styles that I see no way to eliminate styles without losing a lot of members.

I wanted say losing members in the short run, but it would likely be forever and all would be lost sooner than later. I want to have two divisions, men and women, with no style separations, but realize it is not feasible under the current circumstances.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

FS560 said:


> itbeso, While I do not like your keyboard attitude and tactics, I do agree with you on the issue of styles and national championships. We should only have one champion at any event, whether it be national championship or club shoot.
> 
> On the one hand you complain about me in the vein of NFAA losing membership, but then speak of doing away with classes (styles). We have gone so far down the path of excessive numbers of styles that I see no way to eliminate styles without losing a lot of members.
> 
> I wanted say losing members in the short run, but it would likely be forever and all would be lost sooner than later. I want to have two divisions, men and women, with no style separations, but realize it is not feasible under the current circumstances.


My keyboard attitude and tactics are just fine except when dealing with bullies and rude people. I will always complain when an Nfaa official is rude or talks down to someone asking innocent questions. They deserve better. On the issue of losing members by eliminating classes, I'm not so close minded that I would definitely say we won't but I don't think the damage, if any, would be as great as many predict. I do think the financial health of local clubs and state organizations would be greatly increased if we could do away with 75% of the awards we now give. There comes a time when tough love has to be put in place and I think now is the time. Disagree on the one champion idea. Most shooting sports have divisions as well as hot rod racing, I just think we could reduce it to probably four each for men and women in archery. With the advent of the Nasp programs and the real possibilities that many of those youth will stay with archery in the future, now is the time to trim back and put in permanent rules for divisions.JMHO


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

FS560 said:


> itbeso, Apparently you did not notice or failed to understand that I counted up the attendance at Darrington from the website and then suggested that bopo2 count up 2012 himself from the same source that I did for 2013. And furthermore, you seem to be unable to recognize a tongue in cheek comment, perhaps due to hatred of the NFAA.
> 
> But since you only ever listen to yourself anyway, why would anyone expect anything else from a person obviously afraid to identify himself. Unlike you, I am not afraid to identify myself and have always displayed my real name.


There was a rude answer by you, certainly no tongue in cheek, at least not until you got called on your attitude.Absolutely no hatred for the NFAA, only love.How in the hell would you know who I listen to? My identity is well known and there is definitely no fear of anyone knowing my identity. With all that said, I hope the topic of too many classes can be recaptured and addressed. I think the Nfaa should appoint a committee of old timers to do the dirty work. Not to take anything away from the states but their self interest in getting all these classes voted in is what got us to this point anyway.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I talked to a young women at Darrington. I asked her on tuesday the day prior to the start of the nationals if she had shot a practice round that day. Her responce was that she didn't need to since she was the only person in her group. I asked her what style she was shooting. She said she didn't really know but it was one that her husband had picked out for her as it never had anyone else in it.

I also believe that the number of classes in NFAA is killing us. I would like to go back to one class. I don't care what class as I would change my equipment to compete. I love competition far more than winning. As this is not possible because everyone believes that their class is the only real class even if there are only two or three people in it at a nationals. I will continue shooting in the FS class as it is the largest class. I would also be willing to give up all the senior classes and shoot with the adult class. As I also believe that we have killed the senior class this year and need to get rid of them as we never needed to make so many divisions. This was the work of people in power turning 50 and it makes us seniors look like a bunch of people handicapped by age.
We only really need one senior class. Pick an age that really describes a senior and make that the senior class. At 50, I was shooting the same scores as I was shooting at 30. At 55 I won many tournaments because I could shoot almost the same scores as I shot at 30. But as I got closer to 60, my scores started dropping. I also noticed that the scores were very similar between the silver and master senior classes. So if the NFAA picked an age and made one senior class, I would live with it. Just don't pick an age because because some important NFAA directors have just turned 50.

This reminds me. I would love to see the members having the right to vote for some of the changes being made. I remember a few times when the majority of archers in a state that I lived were against a change but our directer voted for it against our wishes. I had talked to three directors about this senior class change and was told that it would not be voted in. What happened? I tink with the computers and the internet that the members should be able to vote on changes. Maybe then the rules and divisions would not change every year.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

huteson2us2 said:


> I talked to a young women at Darrington. I asked her on tuesday the day prior to the start of the nationals if she had shot a practice round that day. Her responce was that she didn't need to since she was the only person in her group. I asked her what style she was shooting. She said she didn't really know but it was one that her husband had picked out for her as it never had anyone else in it.
> 
> I also believe that the number of classes in NFAA is killing us. I would like to go back to one class. I don't care what class as I would change my equipment to compete. I love competition far more than winning. As this is not possible because everyone believes that their class is the only real class even if there are only two or three people in it at a nationals. I will continue shooting in the FS class as it is the largest class. I would also be willing to give up all the senior classes and shoot with the adult class. As I also believe that we have killed the senior class this year and need to get rid of them as we never needed to make so many divisions. This was the work of people in power turning 50 and it makes us seniors look like a bunch of people handicapped by age.
> We only really need one senior class. Pick an age that really describes a senior and make that the senior class. At 50, I was shooting the same scores as I was shooting at 30. At 55 I won many tournaments because I could shoot almost the same scores as I shot at 30. But as I got closer to 60, my scores started dropping. I also noticed that the scores were very similar between the silver and master senior classes. So if the NFAA picked an age and made one senior class, I would live with it. Just don't pick an age because because some important NFAA directors have just turned 50.
> ...


Huteson, I agree with most of your ideas except the one about members voting on anything. This is what has gotten us in the mess we are in, in my opinion. I feel we need to have a committee with common sense to set up 3 or four classes and keep it that way in perpetuity. Golf rarely changes rules and look at its popularity. I, personally, would like us to get on board with World Archery and only have their 3 divisions. What a wonderful thing it would be to have 1-200 archers in a class shooting for a national championship.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

itbeso said:


> Huteson, I agree with most of your ideas except the one about members voting on anything. This is what has gotten us in the mess we are in, in my opinion. I feel we need to have a committee with common sense to set up 3 or four classes and keep it that way in perpetuity. Golf rarely changes rules and look at its popularity. I, personally, would like us to get on board with World Archery and only have their 3 divisions. What a wonderful thing it would be to have 1-200 archers in a class shooting for a national championship.


Well stated. Its sad to go to a National Championship and only 4 shooters in all age groups for that style..... Why travel when you have more shooters than that in that style at a local shoot? Diminishes the title.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

itbeso said:


> Huteson, I agree with most of your ideas except the one about members voting on anything. This is what has gotten us in the mess we are in, in my opinion. I feel we need to have a committee with common sense to set up 3 or four classes and keep it that way in perpetuity. Golf rarely changes rules and look at its popularity. I, personally, would like us to get on board with World Archery and only have their 3 divisions. What a wonderful thing it would be to have 1-200 archers in a class shooting for a national championship.


Don't forget...>World Archery does have its "age classifications" for the shooters!

http://www.victoriabowmen.com/clubinfo/ArcheryInfo/agecategories.html 

Master - age 50+
Senior Men, Senior Women
Junior Men and Junior Women
Cadet Men & Women
Cub Men & Women
Pre-Cub Men & Women
Pee-wee Men & Women

Some places break those below 21 down even further!


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

huteson2us2 said:


> I talked to a young women at Darrington. I asked her on tuesday the day prior to the start of the nationals if she had shot a practice round that day. Her responce was that she didn't need to since she was the only person in her group. I asked her what style she was shooting. She said she didn't really know but it was one that her husband had picked out for her as it never had anyone else in it.
> 
> I also believe that the number of classes in NFAA is killing us. I would like to go back to one class. I don't care what class as I would change my equipment to compete. I love competition far more than winning. As this is not possible because everyone believes that their class is the only real class even if there are only two or three people in it at a nationals. I will continue shooting in the FS class as it is the largest class. I would also be willing to give up all the senior classes and shoot with the adult class. As I also believe that we have killed the senior class this year and need to get rid of them as we never needed to make so many divisions. This was the work of people in power turning 50 and it makes us seniors look like a bunch of people handicapped by age.
> We only really need one senior class. Pick an age that really describes a senior and make that the senior class. At 50, I was shooting the same scores as I was shooting at 30. At 55 I won many tournaments because I could shoot almost the same scores as I shot at 30. But as I got closer to 60, my scores started dropping. I also noticed that the scores were very similar between the silver and master senior classes. So if the NFAA picked an age and made one senior class, I would live with it. Just don't pick an age because because some important NFAA directors have just turned 50.
> ...


Well stated. Change the senior class either back to 55 or to 60 and up. If your State director isn't doing what the majority wants.. get the vote out!


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

NFAA finally gets on board with every other organization by having Seniors at 50.....and folks want it changed back?

Golf.....Senior is 50
ASA IBO....Senior is 50
ASA, USSSA and ISSA softball....senior is 50
Any restraunt that offers Senior discounts???? 50...


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I was saying that one senior class would be enough. untill I hit 60, I was able to compete with the adult class. I still can't beat a few master seniors in my state who are in their mid 70s even though I'm 66. I also know of at least one of the archers that finished in the top three of the adult division FS class in Darrington that was over fifty and could have competed in the senior division.

But I don't think that 72 divisions in each of the three senior classes are needed. One realistic senior division would do. I also believe that since the purpose of the national championship is to find the best archers in the USA, not a place to determine which class has the fewest competitors and will give a person a chance to be the best in the United Stated by having no one else to shoot against. At our local shoots, there are almost as many cheap medals given out as there are archers. I can still remember when large trophies were giving because only a few of them were won.


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