# IBO Rule Changes - 2019



## wv hoyt man (Feb 17, 2012)

lol


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

Unfrigginbelievable!!!!!!!!
Not only did they NOT add any Marked distance classes, they also moved MBO 5yds closer for a 45yd max AND they moved X-bow 5yds back to 50yds???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
SHAKING MY HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vahylander (Dec 6, 2007)

Wow. Just WOW. How frigging tone deaf can a board of directors be to their members, shooters- pro and amateur, manufacturers and sponsors. I'm really shocked. I thought for sure there were more pragmatic, thoughtful people in that organization. Apparently not. Its really indefensible. And I shoot unknown...but I understand the economic value and popularity of known classes. The board members who railroaded this through and ignored the majority should be removed- period.


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## T&A (Sep 26, 2013)

I pretty sure we can all say bye bye to the ibo its a shame I was really hoping they would try to get their crap together and listen to their members and sponsors oh well at least I don’t have to try and figure out how to make any of these shoots in between shooting all the Asa pro ams


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## vahylander (Dec 6, 2007)

draw29 said:


> It says rules::: didn't say anything about anything new that could be or could not be happening. Pretty sure thats a whole different agenda. Give it some time before it is officially announced and then you have that option to bash them or not. Until, hold your pants on.


Well if thats truly in the works- then why even release 2019 rules. We've been waiting awhile now since their board meeting. Do you really think they would release these 2019 regulations knowing they would abruptly revise? That seems idiotic. But then again- it is the IBO board.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

draw29 said:


> It says rules::: didn't say anything about anything new that could be or could not be happening. Pretty sure thats a whole different agenda. Give it some time before it is officially announced and then you have that option to bash them or not. Until, hold your pants on.


I'm not bashing, I actually love the IBO and that's why I hope that it will return to it former level as a 3D organization. Publishing the 2019 rules document, with its full list of classes, and not a mention of Known-Distance anywhere, does sort of indicate that the organization is not listening. 

I am hearing that there are exciting changes coming to the IBO, I hope everyone will find them as exciting as the insiders do!


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

allxs said:


> I'm not bashing, I actually love the IBO and that's why I hope that it will return to it former level as a 3D organization. Publishing the 2019 rules document, with its full list of classes, and not a mention of Known-Distance anywhere, does sort of indicate that the organization is not listening.
> 
> I am hearing that there are exciting changes coming to the IBO, I hope everyone will find them as exciting as the insiders do!


Well said. Why publish anything until everything is ready!!!


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## vahylander (Dec 6, 2007)

The IBO needs to make a definitive statement- one way or another. I have friends- most of them better and more decorated shooters than I will ever be- some of them top level pros- who need to make their schedules and shooting plans much more in advance than most. To just let this fester is not good for anyone. They could just say- their will be no marked yardage classes and we will not be amending these 2019 rules with marked yardage classes. Then everyone can plan their games of choice and schedules accordingly.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

Seems like they would have posted on social media that the new 2019 rules were posted on the Webpage, if they had wanted anyone to know.

Or conversely if they had exciting news coming anytime soon, they might post some sort of teaser on social media.

cricket noises...

Since neither have happened, my guarded optimism is now reluctant pessimism.


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## robinofthehood (Jun 14, 2010)

They seem to be holding their stand and I respect them for that...


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## vahylander (Dec 6, 2007)

robinofthehood said:


> They seem to be holding their stand and I respect them for that...


Yeah- Custer held his last stand too......


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

robinofthehood said:


> They seem to be holding their stand and I respect them for that...


Yep, ride that ship to total obscurity...they deserve everything that comes their way.


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## TankerSarge (Jan 7, 2011)

vahylander said:


> Yeah- Custer held his last stand too......


Hahahahaha 


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

shawn_in_MA said:


> Unfrigginbelievable!!!!!!!!
> Not only did they NOT add any Marked distance classes, they also moved MBO 5yds closer for a 45yd max ....


Typical IBO.... Figure out what most people want, and do the opposite. 

Maybe they figure that if they bring the targets close enough, they can make yardage estimation so easy that no one will need a rangefinder and people will stop requesting a known class.... lol


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

You guys should stop picking on the IBO leadership. OK, maybe they aren't really leaders but since the IBO is theirs to do with as they please you should respect that and just shut up about it. Pay your membership dues and go with the flow.

*If you don't like it then don't join!*


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Kstigall said:


> You guys should stop picking on the IBO leadership. OK, maybe they aren't really leaders but since the IBO is theirs to do with as they please you should respect that and just shut up about it. Pay your membership dues and go with the flow.
> 
> *If you don't like it then don't join!*


LOL.... did an IBO board member hack Kens AT account.


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> You guys should stop picking on the IBO leadership. OK, maybe they aren't really leaders but since the IBO is theirs to do with as they please you should respect that and just shut up about it. Pay your membership dues and go with the flow.
> 
> *If you don't like it then don't join!*


My feelings exactly


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> You guys should stop picking on the IBO leadership. OK, maybe they aren't really leaders but since the IBO is theirs to do with as they please you should respect that and just shut up about it. Pay your membership dues and go with the flow.
> 
> *If you don't like it then don't join!*





Trykon Mike said:


> My feelings exactly



So you think IBO leadership is doing right by sticking their collective heads in the sand (or else where) and letting the organization shrivel? It's better to let members, sponsors and vendors walk away rather than to change? It's better to rot away than to grow membership? You believe IBO customers (members) should either suck it up or take their business elsewhere? Apparently many hundreds if not more former IBO customers have agreed with you and kept their money in their pocket. The IBO must feel like having more members and archers at tournaments is a bad thing.

Honestly, I'm glad the IBO does not have Known distance classes. It probably saves me a couple of thousand dollars every year.


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## vahylander (Dec 6, 2007)

I see Stigall got control back of his hacked account 😏


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

vahylander said:


> Yeah- Custer held his last stand too......


You beat me to it. LOL


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## T&A (Sep 26, 2013)

I don’t understand why they ask for comments and recommendations on their Facebook page and then removed it with 650 plus posts some from the very elite people in archery and did nothing any one ask for gotta love it


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

T&A said:


> I don’t understand why they ask for comments and recommendations on their Facebook page and then removed it with 650 plus posts some from the very elite people in archery and did nothing any one ask for gotta love it


The obvious explanation is they are out of touch with modern archers, got a whole bunch of feedback they either didn't expect or didnt want to hear, so they swept it under the rug.

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## Finger_Shooter (Sep 22, 2018)

nestly said:


> The obvious explanation is they are out of touch with modern archers, got a whole bunch of feedback they either didn't expect or didnt want to hear, so they swept it under the rug.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk












I think your right....



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## 1ryanman (Apr 15, 2007)

Guys this is what I was told by a very reliable person there is going to be a known class but it won’t be 3-d this is my post from Facebook I have been told that there is going to be a known class also but it will be field shoot ,will consist of a metal stand with 3 round foam rings on it different sizes that you will shoot at and will be 40 targets and 3 different stakes ..WHAT THE HECK IS THiS not 3-D .My thought on this and just my thought is just a excuse for IBO to fail at Known Yardage classes...This is my opinion and my opinion only .


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

1ryanman said:


> Guys this is what I was told by a very reliable person there is going to be a known class but it won’t be 3-d this is my post from Facebook I have been told that there is going to be a known class also but it will be field shoot ,will consist of a metal stand with 3 round foam rings on it different sizes that you will shoot at and will be 40 targets and 3 different stakes ..WHAT THE HECK IS THiS not 3-D .My thought on this and just my thought is just a excuse for IBO to fail at Known Yardage classes...This is my opinion and my opinion only .


Even I dont believe IBO is stupid enough to try that.... but I could be wrong. 

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## 1ryanman (Apr 15, 2007)

Nestly,How much money do you want to put on it that it’s real,


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

1ryanman said:


> Nestly,How much money do you want to put on it that it’s real,


I'm the last person that would bet against the IBO's ability to screw up (or intentionally sabotage) a "Known" class but until I see it in writing, I'm not inclined to believe what you described in post #25 is likely to happen. As I said above, given IBOs track record of poor decisions, *I could be wrong.*


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

Why don't everybody that doesn't like something stay where they are at , enjoy it , and shut the He!! up
No body cares about about your feelings
I would like to shoot ASA , BUT I don't want to have to change the speed of my bow , waa waa waa


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Trykon Mike said:


> Why don't everybody that doesn't like something stay where they are at , enjoy it , and shut the He!! up
> No body cares about about your feelings
> I would like to shoot ASA , BUT I don't want to have to change the speed of my bow , waa waa waa


So the IBO asks for feedback from it’s members...totally ignores the feedback they receive...needs to make significant changes if they want to see participation increase...and your advice is to shut up and just hand them some more money for their inferior efforts to provide their customers with a quality product. This thought process has really helped them the last few years now...Maybe accepting their half assed efforts then handing them more money hoping things will be better next time isn’t the answer.


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

They pretty much told you their standing
If you don't like it shoot ASA
I would think your time would be better spent practicing for marked yardage , than unmarked
If YOU like ASA you work on your form
If you like IBO you work on your form and your yardage
Its pretty simple


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

I have pretty much said all I am going to say on this subject
BYE


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Trykon Mike said:


> Why don't everybody that doesn't like something stay where they are at , enjoy it , and shut the He!! up
> No body cares about about your feelings


Actually, all the archery organizations that aren't currently imploding do give consideration to the wishes of those who participate in their events.




Trykon Mike said:


> I would like to shoot ASA , BUT I don't want to have to change the speed of my bow , waa waa waa


Not a great example, as again, it's IBO that's out of touch on the subject of arrow speed. All the other organizations (ASA/NFAA/OPA) recognize that speed limits are a necessary competitive control. Also, you don't have to change your bow to shoot ASA, just add some arrow weight. Pretty much all the different organizations and archery disciplines require different arrows. You don't shoot the same arrow indoor as you do outdoor, you don't shoot the same arrow for outdoor target as you do for 3D, you don't even shoot the same arrow for Indoor World Archery as Indoor NFAA. There are plenty of pros that shoot the same bow for ASA and IBO, just different arrows. Of all the excuses I've ever heard not to shoot one organization or another, "my bow's too fast" has to be the lamest... there's about a dozen ways to remedy that, including turning those two bolts that attach limbs to the riser.

I live right in the middle of IBO country and I'd love to shoot IBO again, but IBO has lost sight of what competitive archery is about, and it offers nothing for off the potential competitors that want to shoot known. Any reasonable person can see that in 2018, there are more archers that want to shoot known 3D than those that want to shoot unknown 3D, so IBO denying all those shooters entry into there events IS a problem for IBO and all those who have no place to compete in their geographic area.


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## J Name (Dec 30, 2005)

I remember when everyone shot overdraws with light short arrows that were on the dangerous side. Ibo went with grains per pound and asa went with speed limit. if you had a 30" draw and got much over 280fps you had a fast bow. 

If you have a 27" draw with a 7" brace height you have 20" of string travel to shoot the arrow. If you have a 31" draw with a 7" brace height you have 24" of string travel to shoot an arrow so now the person with a 31" draw has to hold steady for 25 percent longer to make a shot good so I would think that if we realy wanted to level playing field we would require everyone to have at least 22" or more of string travel. there are advantages of being shorter or taller its all in how you use them.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

nestly said:


> Of all the excuses I've ever heard not to shoot one organization or another, "my bow's too fast" has to be the lamest...
> .


I don't want to practice judging is up there as well :set1_rolf2:


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

nochance said:


> I don't want to practice judging is up there as well :set1_rolf2:


I spent a lot of years shooting unknown, and I won a lot more money than I paid in doing it, not because I was a better shot than everyone, but because I did put a lot of effort into my judging. I don't make any apologies for being successful because of it, but I no longer have the vision, or the desire to dedicate that much time to judging these days.

It's sad, not funny, that some take pleasure in denying a place to shoot to those who cant dedicate the amount of time it takes to get really good at judging.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

nochance said:


> I don't want to practice judging is up there as well :set1_rolf2:



 That is a legitimate reason for not shooting in IBO tournaments. Dwindling IBO attendance proves it. 


The IBO is very close to, if it hasn't already, becoming a very minor player in the archery industry. At one time they were major players with significant influence but the IBO controllers over the last 10-12 years have done a terrible job of just keeping up. 

It does not impact me personally as I already have access to more high quality national archery tournaments than I can possibly attend. But I know there are many hundreds if not thousands of potential archery participants that can't enjoy what so many of us enjoy simply because of just a handful of guys lost in time. 

I hope one day the IBO does start growing and get the numbers at their tournaments that the ASA enjoys. However, if and when that day comes it will _not _mean that what they are currently doing is right. If they cautiously followed other archery organizations lead they could have a lot more members right now and most importantly a lot more young archers getting involved in the game.

It would not cause any harm if the IBO set up just two Known distance classes. A men's Hunter class and a woman's Hunter with a 35 - 40 yard max and advertise it. The only problem would be if it did become popular, the current IBO handlers would be embarrassed. Kind of like back in the day when the presidents of USA car manufacturers said that americans would NEVER buy smaller but high quality trucks and cars. So they ended up being more than a decade behind the asian companies and have never really caught up.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> :
> But I know there are many hundreds if not thousands of potential archery participants that can't enjoy what so many of us enjoy simply because of just a handful of guys lost in time.
> .


"Can't" ?? or won't? I do agree IBO needs to implement known yardage and on the flip side one could say there are many 100's if not thousands that cant enjoy ASA because they will not come to the north east. not everyone can afford to travel to these shoots. I have shot IBO and known competitions as well and although i prefer unknown, i like shooting my bow and if there's a comp i can make it to then i will.


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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

After this year's "Winternationals", which I have shot almost all of them, I had a bad feeling my beloved IBO was going out. After I asked the President about ever going to known yardage in the future, his reply was simply, "never!" All my friends shoot ASA, and travel a lot of miles, that involves more time than I have. A lot would shoot IBO if it had a known class. I didn't like the "money" class you are forced to enter, I am honest about my ability, I'm decent, but nowhere good enough to win. My class, Senior Hunter is only 35 yards max, and the year before the money class, I had targets from 8 to 36 yards, and it was FUN. This years targets were all 30 to 35+, no short shots, actually a little boring. I've shot IBO tournaments since the early 80"s, all the triple crowns, with Nelsonville OH, being my favorite. That course was tough, but in a good way. Having a long draw, 32.5", and enjoying speed like I do, the IBO was my favorite organization.

Now I'm loading up my arrows, 145 to 175 grain field points, turning my bows down, adjusting some to comfort settings, and getting ready for the ASA. I will probably only shoot a couple, but no more IBO for me.--BB


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## Finger_Shooter (Sep 22, 2018)

nochance said:


> "Can't" ?? or won't? I do agree IBO needs to implement known yardage and on the flip side one could say there are many 100's if not thousands that cant enjoy ASA because they will not come to the north east. not everyone can afford to travel to these shoots. I have shot IBO and known competitions as well and although i prefer unknown, i like shooting my bow and if there's a comp i can make it to then i will.


I think what Stigall and mostly everyone in this forum is frustrated with is why??? Why ask for Feedback then do nothing with it? Why hold a national tournament that only gets 662 shooters but ignore everything that will add numbers? Why have payouts where people are getting $7,$8 or $10 checks mailed to them? I too have heard the rumor of the “known field round” getting passed at the board. And I’ll be honest if that’s true I’m done. All people want is a K45/K50 stake and that was to much to ask apparently. I’ve shot every National for 6 straight years and I’ve seen it’s slowly drowning in its own ignorance. I’ve got friends who’s kids haven’t received Belt Buckles from the World Championship in Snowshoe. Can’t get anyone at the office to answer or return calls but somehow post on Facebook that the Pres is in Florida??? I used to be a stern defender of the IBO but now I’m happy to be on the Dark side. Maybe one day they will change my mind. 



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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Bourbon Boy said:


> After this year's "Winternationals", which I have shot almost all of them, I had a bad feeling my beloved IBO was going out. After I asked the President about ever going to known yardage in the future, his reply was simply, "never!" All my friends shoot ASA, and travel a lot of miles, that involves more time than I have. A lot would shoot IBO if it had a known class. I didn't like the "money" class you are forced to enter, I am honest about my ability, I'm decent, but nowhere good enough to win. My class, Senior Hunter is only 35 yards max, and the year before the money class, I had targets from 8 to 36 yards, and it was FUN. This years targets were all 30 to 35+, no short shots, actually a little boring. I've shot IBO tournaments since the early 80"s, all the triple crowns, with Nelsonville OH, being my favorite. That course was tough, but in a good way. Having a long draw, 32.5", and enjoying speed like I do, the IBO was my favorite organization.
> 
> Now I'm loading up my arrows, 145 to 175 grain field points, turning my bows down, adjusting some to comfort settings, and getting ready for the ASA. I will probably only shoot a couple, but no more IBO for me.--BB


Sadly, it seems IBO doesn't care about loosing long term supporters, and they don't care about bringing in new supporters either. The only way we're going to get a decent 3D tournament series in the North East is for people to stop propping up IBO and let it fail entirely so it can either be reborn with new leadership, or make room for some other organization to take over.


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## coastiehunter2 (Jun 27, 2011)

I get frustrated shooting unknown but when I'm on nothing feels better in my opinion as far competive archery. When I'm off it's a struggle, but I will say there has been a lot of times when I couldn't use my range finder while hunting where shooting unknown has paid off.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

nestly said:


> The only way we're going to get a decent 3D tournament series in the North East is for people to stop propping up IBO and let it fail entirely so it can either be reborn with new leadership, or make room for some other organization to take over.


Yes , everyone quit IBO cause the people that want known want us too. Like i said I think they should implement known yardage but I'm not going to quit something i enjoy cause others say so.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

nochance said:


> Yes , everyone quit IBO cause the people that want known want us too. Like i said I think they should implement known yardage but I'm not going to quit something i enjoy cause others say so.


You're not getting it. I began my boycott of IBO before I even supported known 3D, and just above BB has indicated that he intends to transition from IBO to ASA after decades of being a loyal IBO supporter. IBO is bleeding itself, and seems to have no interest in closing it's wounds, much less trying to appeal to the largest segment of potential shooters (known).

The problems with IBO are way bigger than just their refusal to include known distance classes. If you read the IBO post (before they removed it) or the other post I linked to in another thread, you'd know that it's not just shooters, vendors and sponsors are also withdrawing support for IBO over issue that IBO could EASILY fix with virtually no effort if not for their stubbornness. 
For amateurs, there's basically no reason to shoot IBO Triple Crown events other than habit. Payback/awards are pathetic and there's no prestige or recognition for a podium or even a win. Many people have grown weary of the time and money it takes to shoot the NTC, when they can't even break even if they win. 20-30 years ago, there weren't 500+ shooters in MBO because they were there just to have "fun"... those were the competitive archers in the North East and many of them were competitive in target archers as well not just 3D shooters. The appeal of IBO for that group is mostly gone now because IBO has not kept up with archery trends and has completely ignored the needs of that (the previously largest) segment of archers.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

I'll quit shooting IBO when it no longer appeals to me.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Trykon Mike said:


> I have pretty much said all I am going to say on this subject
> BYE


 "insert applause"


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

nochance said:


> Yes , everyone quit IBO cause the people that want known want us too. Like i said I think they should implement known yardage but I'm not going to quit something i enjoy cause others say so.


Before Known distance took off in the ASA the IBO controllers, they are NOT leaders, ignored constructive criticism from long term members that may have helped with keep attendance up. Let's not confuse adding Known distance classes with removing judging classes! Enhancing or adding quality and popular products to the line up can help an organization continue on. But that also means those folks that in reality enjoy being in charge more than they appreciate being a part of something bigger and better have to step it up! 

I am no way suggesting that those that enjoy the IBO game should quit because the IBO controllers have their heads stuck in the muck and/or absolutely don't care about the future of the IBO.


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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

A couple of observations. First and foremost, MOST people quit IBO simply because they felt they couldn't compete. The fact is not everyone has a bow that shoots over 340+ FPS. The ASA levels the playing field on that subject. I have always shot all 40 targets in one day, no hotel room, about as cheap as a national shoot can be. I have shot a couple of known shoots, and it wasn't any easier, take out yardage estimation, and make the 12 ring smaller than the center 11. The IBO needs to put more "Bowhunting" into their shoots, with varying yardage, just like hunting is.

They need to make money class optional, I know a few guys that actually won, after the entry fee plus dues, they got about $40. When I started shooting IBO. I lived in Ohio, just about the center of most of the shoots. When ASA began, most of the shoots, were in the south,and still are. My feelings about the IBO are simple, they were the premier 3-D organization, and can't swallow their pride and admit SOME things the ASA does is better. Different classes, shotgun starts, easier score cards without the hole punch BS, and support from vendors. 

Will I ever go back, yes, if they actually do something sensible, like breaking up groups, actually checking equipment, maybe implement a 300 FPS speed limit, and put on a decent quality shoot. With the leaders they now have this isn't going to happen.--BB


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## NY12020 (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm not a fan of the recent rule changes; this years or last years. The change in MBO to 45 yards max has me shaking my head. Wonder what the motivation behind that change was or what the perceived benefit will be?
I'm not personally a fan of known yardage and if its added down the road i'll still shoot unmarked; BUT I don't have any issue with adding known classes, especially if it improves the product and increases attendance.

I wish there were fewer classes like it was years ago...its gotten so there's a class for just about everything. Maybe we can add classes based on bow color too....

In the end though; I'll just wince and take it (kind of like a visit to the proctologist); because I love shooting and competing and I enjoy it regardless of all the bureaucracy...


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

Attendance has this crazy way of effecting Attendance. If you don't believe it, just ask the guys at Regions.


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## robinofthehood (Jun 14, 2010)

Bourbon Boy said:


> After this year's "Winternationals", which I have shot almost all of them, I had a bad feeling my beloved IBO was going out. After I asked the President about ever going to known yardage in the future, his reply was simply, "never!" All my friends shoot ASA, and travel a lot of miles, that involves more time than I have. A lot would shoot IBO if it had a known class. I didn't like the "money" class you are forced to enter, I am honest about my ability, I'm decent, but nowhere good enough to win. My class, Senior Hunter is only 35 yards max, and the year before the money class, I had targets from 8 to 36 yards, and it was FUN. This years targets were all 30 to 35+, no short shots, actually a little boring. I've shot IBO tournaments since the early 80"s, all the triple crowns, with Nelsonville OH, being my favorite. That course was tough, but in a good way. Having a long draw, 32.5", and enjoying speed like I do, the IBO was my favorite organization.
> 
> Now I'm loading up my arrows, 145 to 175 grain field points, turning my bows down, adjusting some to comfort settings, and getting ready for the ASA. I will probably only shoot a couple, but no more IBO for me.--BB


There you have it. "never"... 
Great answer Brian.
To those who have to shoot with the assistance of a range finder, sounds like you will have to travel south to play that game.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

robinofthehood said:


> There you have it. "never"...
> Great answer Brian.
> To those who have to shoot with the assistance of a range finder, sounds like you will have to travel south to play that game.


I don't have to shoot with a range finder. I just prefer to use one. I shoot for the enjoyment of shooting and using the range finder makes it more enjoyable for me.

:wink:


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

robinofthehood said:


> There you have it. "never"...
> Great answer Brian.
> To those who have to shoot with the assistance of a range finder, sounds like you will have to travel south to play that game.


Yep..This is the thought process that has gotten the IBO down to about 60% of the participation numbers they had 7-8 years ago. Seems like a great way to do business.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

robinofthehood said:


> There you have it. "never"...
> Great answer Brian.
> To those who have to shoot with the assistance of a range finder, sounds like you will have to travel south to play that game.


Yep....another bitter soul with no regard for the future of competitive 3D.. It's somewhat funny (in a sad way) that IBO and the known haters seem to think they are superior in some way, but they keep bringing the targets closer and the majority are now chosing to shoot classes shorter than the women and kids used to shoot. 

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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

I definitely DON'T need a rangefinder. I do like known yardage just to double check my estimation skills. Back in the 80's my old High Country 3-D supreme was going 320 FPS at 60#, and now I pushing a little over 345FPS with my new bow(that I bought just for IBO). What I do like at ANY shoot of this level, is vendors, new companies starting up with new idea's, lots of people shooting. It just makes it look like you are in a sport that is growing, not going down hill. Leadership should be open to new ideas for any organization, "never" should not be in their vocabulary. IBO simply needs a overhaul, now, before it's too late.--BB


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

There is no way there will ever be change in the IBO's mind set the ,((((((( membership )))))))) has no say in what goes on!!!! Anytime you have and executive board that controls a membership like this your a subject to there will!!! the IBO ain't no democracy!!!!! lol


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Bourbon Boy said:


> I definitely DON'T need a rangefinder. I do like known yardage just to double check my estimation skills. Back in the 80's my old High Country 3-D supreme was going 320 FPS at 60#, and now I pushing a little over 345FPS with my new bow(that I bought just for IBO). What I do like at ANY shoot of this level, is vendors, new companies starting up with new idea's, lots of people shooting. It just makes it look like you are in a sport that is growing, not going down hill. Leadership should be open to new ideas for any organization, "never" should not be in their vocabulary. IBO simply needs a overhaul, now, before it's too late.--BB


I agree but with one small exception. In your second to last sentence strike "leadership" and insert "controllers". Leaders lead and obviously the IBO lacks people in control of the organization with that trait.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

In past conversations with tournament organizers they had concerns that attendance under 500 would negate the contingency money from the major bow manufacturers. I wonder if this is still a concern? Not that Mr Marcum would have any regards but I'd be curious what would happen if the pros pulled out? Seems that the vendors are already making their statement. I always looked forward to visiting vendors at these tournaments but it's hardly a draw when you know you'll be lucky if 5 or 6 decent vendors will show up. Mr Marcum...you are the cancer that will eventually kill the IBO.


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## IBOHunt3D (Jun 6, 2006)

Does the IBO even realize its numbers, of both members and participants are down? Do they realize that the majority of outdoor, foam animal shooting, target archers desire a known option? Do they care? Or I wonder if the goal is to really be an organization that is solely about bow hunting. If they don't offer the target archers what they want (a known class), then those archers will leave. If they make the longer distance open classes too difficult, to the point of not being fun, people will leave. They eventually will be left with hunter (and similar) classes only. So hunting bows with hunting accessories at typical deer killing distances. Perhaps that is the ultimate goal? I don't know, I am just speculating.


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## TankerSarge (Jan 7, 2011)

IBOHunt3D said:


> Does the IBO even realize its numbers, of both members and participants are down? Do they realize that the majority of outdoor, foam animal shooting, target archers desire a known option? Do they care? Or I wonder if the goal is to really be an organization that is solely about bow hunting. If they don't offer the target archers what they want (a known class), then those archers will leave. If they make the longer distance open classes too difficult, to the point of not being fun, people will leave. They eventually will be left with hunter (and similar) classes only. So hunting bows with hunting accessories at typical deer killing distances. Perhaps that is the ultimate goal? I don't know, I am just speculating.











They know...






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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

woodsman78 said:


> There is no way there will ever be change in the IBO's mind set the ,((((((( membership )))))))) has no say in what goes on!!!! Anytime you have and executive board that controls a membership like this your a subject to there will!!! the IBO ain't no democracy!!!!! lol


The ASA is a privately owned company. It is not a democracy. BUT it does listen to the shooters, the member clubs, and the state federations. It works because the owners listen.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

*they know*



TankerSarge said:


> They know...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am sure they will attribute it to archery event attendance being down nationally, economy, fuel prices, etc. I am certain that the ASA attendance numbers would show a similar trend.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

You'd be incorrect in assuming ASA numbers are down....they are up dramatically. I'd attribute that fact to leadership. IMO, True leaders accept advice and correction with humility and move forward with a new focus.


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## TankerSarge (Jan 7, 2011)

allxs said:


> I am sure they will attribute it to archery event attendance being down nationally, economy, fuel prices, etc. I am certain that the ASA attendance numbers would show a similar trend.


I know all forms of Archery are down but ignorance is no excuse. ASA Augusta last year had 1,585 shooters. IBO hasn’t had that many shooters in any tournament in the last 8 years. Take the 5 Known classes from Augusta and you have the same numbers almost for a IBO National (561)!!! Insane to me that they just keep repeating the same cycle. 


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

allxs said:


> I am sure they will attribute it to archery event attendance being down nationally, economy, fuel prices, etc. I am certain that the ASA attendance numbers would show a similar trend.


that is incorrect. ASA added many different known distance classes over the span of those same years which actually increased attendance at many events


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

i guess no one saw my wink;:wink:


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## jonfinnell (Nov 26, 2008)

TankerSarge said:


> I know all forms of Archery are down but ignorance is no excuse. ASA Augusta last year had 1,585 shooters. IBO hasn’t had that many shooters in any tournament in the last 8 years. Take the 5 Known classes from Augusta and you have the same numbers almost for a IBO National (561)!!! Insane to me that they just keep repeating the same cycle.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Interesting numbers for sure. In looking at this, almost every single IBO event listed here over the last 8 years is down right at 500 shooters. 
A few known classes would probably pick that 500 back up pretty quick. I’m guessing 5-800 known shooters at ASA National events?


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

This probably isn't proper...but I don't believe they can edit or delete comments under "reviews" on their FB page Maybe it's just a way to vent !! :wink:


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

jonfinnell said:


> Interesting numbers for sure. In looking at this, almost every single IBO event listed here over the last 8 years is down right at 500 shooters.
> A few known classes would probably pick that 500 back up pretty quick. I’m guessing 5-800 known shooters at ASA National events?


I think there's a lot more to it than just the lack of "known" classes. IBO isn't responsive and doesn't seem to care about the concerns of the shooters or the vendors. I would still shoot IBO unknown if it was legit competition and the payback wasn't so pathetic. At this stage of my life, I would rather shoot "known" but having a known class alone would not be enough to bring me back to IBO. They'd need to put in place competitive controls and awards that are appropriate for a national level tournament.


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## jonfinnell (Nov 26, 2008)

nestly said:


> I think there's a lot more to it than just the lack of "known" classes. IBO isn't responsive and doesn't seem to care about the concerns of the shooters or the vendors. I would still shoot IBO unknown if it was legit competition and the payback wasn't so pathetic. At this stage of my life, I would rather shoot "known" but having a known class alone would not be enough to bring me back to IBO. They'd need to put in place competitive controls and awards that are appropriate for a national level tournament.


Makes sense to me. 


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## happycamper08 (May 7, 2016)

How about the IBO gives participation trophies.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

happycamper08 said:


> How about the IBO gives participation trophies.


Not far from that now with too many classes and not enough shooters.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

So when is the asa coming north? I attended an asa state shoot here in PA that drew 60 shooters or less for a 2 day event.


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## Bmiller556 (Apr 15, 2018)

cowdocdvm said:


> So when is the asa coming north? I attended an asa state shoot here in PA that drew 60 shooters or less for a 2 day event.


I shot that event, I really enjoyed it. I hope they can get better attendance next year. I have not been involved in 3d archery for over 20 years and decided to get back into it. Shooting the ASA event was nice for me because I have not been practicing judging yardage for the same amount of time. I have been working on yardage estimation since and shot a few IBO events since, I enjoyed them as well. Looking at it from my perspective it boils down to do I want to master my form, or form and range estimation. I will shoot both, if available.


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## Laars (Apr 26, 2015)

I like what the IBO is doing. We have two options. We can shoot ASA if that's what we like, or we can go shoot IBO if you like that instead. Pepsi, and Coke. I don't want new Coke. Why do people insist on making them the exact same. I get it. Some prefer known, others like myself don't. Leave the two organizations the way they are.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Laars said:


> I like what the IBO is doing. We have two options. We can shoot ASA if that's what we like, or we can go shoot IBO if you like that instead. Pepsi, and Coke. I don't want new Coke. Why do people insist on making them the exact same. I get it. Some prefer known, others like myself don't. Leave the two organizations the way they are.


Coke/Pepsi arent regional markets. If Coke was known and pepsi was unknown, those that live in ASA country can drink either, but if you live in IBO country you have to drive across several states and spend the night in a motel everytime you want to enjoy a Coke.

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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Also adding known to IBO does not make it the "same" as ASA. For the first 20 or so years ASA existed,, both organizations were unknown only and it didnt make them "the same"

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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Coke is definitely unknown. It's the REAL thing. :wink:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

sagecreek said:


> Coke is definitely unknown. It's the REAL thing. :wink:


Now what about Diet Coke? Is that real? Is that half known and half unknown?


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

carlosii said:


> Now what about Diet Coke? Is that real? Is that half known and half unknown?


"Diet Coke" is all the unknown shooters that crow about unknown being the "real thing" but then sign up for a class with a 35yd max... lol


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## T&A (Sep 26, 2013)

nestly said:


> "Diet Coke" is all the unknown shooters that crow about unknown being the "real thing" but then sign up for a class with a 35yd max... lol


So true l love it tell it like it is


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

You guys are funny


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## wv hoyt man (Feb 17, 2012)

Lol


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

nochance said:


> You guys are funny


Thanks, but not as funny as the adult male shooters that shoot the stakes that used to be reserved only for kids 14 and under.


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## T&A (Sep 26, 2013)

nestly said:


> Thanks, but not as funny as the adult male shooters that shoot the stakes that used to be reserved only for kids 14 and under.


And then walk around with shooter shirts that are covered with logos and make sure they are on every prostaff they can sign up for lol


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

If it makes you feel better


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