# What class to shoot? Move up to?, Bow Novice name change........



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

A) Many competitive 3D'ers strongly believe that you should shoot in the lowest class you can get into and stay there until you win out. 
B) Some of use believe the entry level classes are not for archers that have proven to have well developed archery skills and are only new or "novice" to national 3D tournaments. 

I do understand the reasoning behind "A". But I don't believe that is best for the game or even follows ASA rules for the Bow Novice class. There is a lot more grey area when talking about classes above Bow Novice. It is heavily dependent on the archers skill, experience and his understanding of amateur competition. I can understand shooting a _single_ tournament at a lower level if you have no feel for where you stand but no more than that.

I never shot in Bow Novice. In 2006 I shot my very first ASA tournament only because it was just a few hours from my home. It was my first "big" tournament of any kind but I felt strongly that I was definitely not a "Bow Novice". I placed 62nd in Hunter. My next ASA tournament (Ky) was in '08 where I finished an impressive 59th and my third ASA tournament (Ky) was in '10 where I finished 7th in Hunter. I didn't shoot in 2011 and in later 2012 I began shooting K45. K45 is where I'm currently shooting and perfecting the art of mediocre success.

There are some "steps" in ASA classes that are much bigger than others. For example, the move up or out of Hunter class is quite big. Either you change over to open gear (Open B, K45, both 45 yards), Unlimited (pins, all unknown, 45 yards) or higher. Moving out of "Young Adult pins" is another potentially BIG move. YAP is 30 yards and 260 fps. The next class up is Young Adult Open, Hunter or Bow Novice. Depending upon the young archers "expertise", age and/or strength it can be a HUGE leap. Personally, for me moving "up" of K45 would be or will be HUGE!! :scared: 

I believe "Bow Novice" and "Hunter" should be renamed "Hunter A" and "Hunter B". Maybe even "Fixed Pins A" and "Fixed Pins B". There are a lot of folks that are definitely not "novices" that otherwise fit nicely or truly belong in an all known distance, 30 yard max pins class. Changing the max distance for the first level of pin shooter to 35 yards may be a good idea BUT 35 yards may not mesh with the other classes as far as setting ranges. It would however smooth out the steps between classes.


*NOTE/WARNING:* *My opinion is subject to change without notice OR reason........ In fact it most likely has either changed, evolved or quite possibly devolved since I typed the above rambling. Anyone disagreeing with me quite possibly has good reason.........that is not to say "correct" reasoning! *


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Bow novice class should be for awards only class.

We all know many have no reason to shoot this class just because you never shot an ASA. Novice is novice and very beginner shooter.

Always fought this on state level with sandbaggers but yet it still happens on state level and pro am. If you been shooting several years your not a novice.
DB


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I guess I'm A and B. 

If a shooter can't win out where he is, why move up?

I suppose the question comes on the initial assignment of class. I'd agree that those with experience shouldn't be allowed in Novice classes. So, hunter and Open B or K45 become minimun entry level for those who have experience prior to ASA. But, we all know there are subjective terms and definitions there. So, the catch all is the low win out threshold for each of the lower classes. Its anticipated that any shooter who registers in a class under his ability won't be there long.... especially in Novice or OC.

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## eyeswideopen (May 10, 2011)

I shoot BN. This is my second year shooting ASA. I lack consistency. At Metropolis I shot, up 6 one day, down 25 the next. I shot Up 2, then down 15 in the city shoot. I started bowhunting in 2005. Prior to 2012 I would pick up my bow in September, put it away in January. Probably didnt shoot 100 arrow/month during the season. I didnt start shooting daily until last year. Currently, I have a terrible time judging distance and can barely see the 10/12 rings on a target past 35 yds(yes I wear glasses). But, I have decided that after next year I am moving up irregardless of my finishes in BN. I feel its a place for an adult archer who is relatively new to the sport to learn, but not take up a permanent residence. I will move to hunter class and learn to judge yardage better.
I did read somewhere, maybe it was AT, that a senior bowhunter class is being tested in Texas. If I remember correctly it would be all the usual hunter rules, but a 35 yd max, with 1/2 known, 1/2 unknown. It would be perfect fit for a lot of guys like me that have hesitated in competing in ASA because of all the sandbagging. If someone is 35 y.o., has semi-pro skills they shouldn't be in hunter class in my opinion. But that's what I am looking at competing against locally. It is younger guys who can see and hold better and like to dominate a class. 
I think if you took the money and SOY awards out of more of the lower classes, it would make a difference.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Bow novice class should be for awards only class.
> 
> We all know many have no reason to shoot this class just because you never shot an ASA. Novice is novice and very beginner shooter.
> 
> ...


if they did that then anyone shooting it should not be charged more than $10


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> I guess I'm A and B.
> 
> If a shooter can't win out where he is, why move up?
> 
> ...


Exactly! 



eyeswideopen said:


> I shoot BN. This is my second year shooting ASA. I lack consistency. At Metropolis I shot, up 6 one day, down 25 the next. I shot Up 2, then down 15 in the city shoot. I started bowhunting in 2005. Prior to 2012 I would pick up my bow in September, put it away in January. Probably didnt shoot 100 arrow/month during the season. I didnt start shooting daily until last year. Currently, I have a terrible time judging distance and can barely see the 10/12 rings on a target past 35 yds(yes I wear glasses). But, I have decided that after next year I am moving up irregardless of my finishes in BN. I feel its a place for an adult archer who is relatively new to the sport to learn, but not take up a permanent residence. I will move to hunter class and learn to judge yardage better.
> I did read somewhere, maybe it was AT, that a senior bowhunter class is being tested in Texas. If I remember correctly it would be all the usual hunter rules, but a 35 yd max, with 1/2 known, 1/2 unknown. It would be perfect fit for a lot of guys like me that have hesitated in competing in ASA because of all the sandbagging. If someone is 35 y.o., has semi-pro skills they shouldn't be in hunter class in my opinion. But that's what I am looking at competing against locally. It is younger guys who can see and hold better and like to dominate a class.
> I think if you took the money and SOY awards out of more of the lower classes, it would make a difference.


Sounds to me like "Bow Novice" is a good fit for you. A bunch of us can't see the 10 ring beyond 30 yards! 
A Senior Hunter class seems like it could fly. However, maybe making it a 40 yard class would be best. The IBO has SHC. I believe it draws well.

Should I start lobbying for a "Senior K45" class?!?!?!?!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Daniel Boone said:


> Bow novice class should be for awards only class.
> 
> We all know many have no reason to shoot this class just because you never shot an ASA. Novice is novice and very beginner shooter.
> 
> ...


At the National level a win out limit is in place. Win or surpass X amount ($300?) and those in Bow Novice are automatically moved out.
According to LD Falks, President of the ASA Federation (state level), there have been many in Bow Novice for years. Their ability just won't let them advance.

States rules is where Bow Novice can be the same as slapped right in the face. Win or place high in two Qualifiers and you're moved out. Win a Championship and $30 and you're moved out. This hardly fair when compared to the National rule of win out.

If by my understanding, if you are moved out of Bow Novice at the state level you are automatically moved out at the National level. BUT! Has anyone been moved out of Bow Novice at the State and way less than the $300 limit and went to a national and protested his or her move out?

I challenged such a move out at the state level with a person who won Champion by default and only won something of $30.00, his first time ever time to place and first time ever to win money. LD Falks canceled the move out.

If what is said of the new Federation rules, that they now more mirror national rules, then any state imposed rule not in accordance with the national rule of move out should be protested.

A pretty strong case could be made as it seems records are on file at the ASA headquarters. I mean, here's a person moved out of Bow Novice because he won or placed high in a State Qualifier or didn't even come close to the $300 limit win out and then finishes 60th or 75th or lower at a national event and then his case his backed up farther when he continually places way down the score sheet at other national events.

Note; LD Falks did check the Bow Novice's record and found he was very far down the National he shot in and the same for state Qualifiers, way down the score sheet.

And possibly there have been more move outs canceled, but we just haven't heard of them. The ASA forums is well noted for having Posts removed that didn't shine a bright light on the ASA. So we just don't know....

Rules bent and broken are not new to the ASA...or rather to people put in the position that they are aware of rules bent and broken. Been there, don't tell me it doesn't happen.....


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## knox_nate (Dec 27, 2009)

They will not change or kick people out of novice, because they would loose a lot of shooters. 

I like the idea of having a 35-40 yard 1/2 known and 1/2 unknown class. Would be a good class to try to learn to judge yardage and a good step up over the 30 yard max in novice. If you had that you would still have the guys that shoot hunter locally trying to sneak into it though.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Daniel Boone said:


> Bow novice class should be for awards only class.
> 
> We all know many have no reason to shoot this class just because you never shot an ASA. Novice is novice and very beginner shooter.
> 
> ...


I agree with you DB novice should be awards only and if money is what the shooter is after then they would have to move to a money class.

I don't agree with using money to justify moving archers up in class only if the payout is the same for every Pro Am. A point system should be used to more fairly move archers out of a class..

Heck my first ASA was 2 years ago I shot K45 shot 26up finished 9 and got a nice little check. So I figured finished in the Top 10 in a class with over 120 shooters I should move out and I did to K50 after one Pro Am. Since I have moved to K50 I have taken my lumps and K45 looks so much better !)


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

Women's Known 40 is a great example of what the guys need as well, that are beyond Bow Novice skill, but not ready for a full blown K45 competition.....40 yard max, known distance. It could have a win out of $400-$500 or so. The shooters could utilize longer stablizers and could shoot a moving sight or fixed pins. But throw in a restriction...make it to where no lens could be used. The lens would be the addon for stepping into K45 class. 

I gave myself one year in Bow Novice. My goal was to win out...and even if I didn't win out, I am still moving out of it. I'm at $222 right now with shooting two Pro/Ams this year so I need to get $78 or more to win out of the class at the Classic. That's my goal.


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## jbeasleyshoot (Jan 29, 2008)

Right now I'm shooting in open C and I plan on moving straight to open A for one reason and that is you have to judge every target with no known distance. Plus I will be shooting with a little better class of shooters and I may learn something. I'm all about getting better and the small amount of money I could win by staying in a lower class is insignificant. If you want to improve you need to push yourself and surround yourself with better shooters.


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## slimshady2 (Feb 5, 2012)

:shade: I have shot bn and have placed 1 and 2. It took a year to get the yardage and mechanics down but now I find the 30 yrd max not as challenging. I started hunter and plaed 7 th on my second shoot. I think this is the group for me. It is a real challenge with 3 pins that are .29.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

slimshady2 said:


> :shade: I have shot bn and have placed 1 and 2. It took a year to get the yardage and mechanics down but now I find the 30 yrd max not as challenging. I started hunter and plaed 7 th on my second shoot. I think this is the group for me. It is a real challenge with 3 pins that are .29.


You need smaller pins! .029 covers too much of the target.


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## eyeswideopen (May 10, 2011)

Senior Mens Hunter or Senior Men's Novice. 55 and over. 35-40yd. known distance. Fixed pins. Stab restrictions, etc. A very low win out. No SOY. Lots of older guys standing on the sidelines watching, won't shoot with 13 y.o.'s and can't compete with 20-40 y.o. shooters that are basically wanting to shoot their hunting set-up. Would be great asset to regional shoots to draw more local shooters.


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## P'town Shooter (Dec 30, 2012)

Good idea on the Senior Men's Hunter. I think it would get a lot of participation. My wife says we need a Senior Women's Hunter.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

If you shoot up, you should move to a harder class.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

i guess senior bowhunter would fly but it should be the same distance as bowhunter and half and half just like bowhunter. shoot same range at the same time just like super senior and senior master.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> At the National level a win out limit is in place. Win or surpass X amount ($300?) and those in Bow Novice are automatically moved out.
> According to LD Falks, President of the ASA Federation (state level), there have been many in Bow Novice for years. Their ability just won't let them advance.
> 
> States rules is where Bow Novice can be the same as slapped right in the face. Win or place high in two Qualifiers and you're moved out. Win a Championship and $30 and you're moved out. This hardly fair when compared to the National rule of win out.
> ...


If your capable of 30up your not a novice. Shoot all the local shoots in money class. I actually know what a sandbagger is and dont need rules to tell me this. If your a sponsor shooter and been shooting for six years your not a novice.
DB
DB


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Daniel Boone said:


> If your capable of 30up your not a novice. Shoot all the local shoots in money class. I actually know what a sandbagger is and dont need rules to tell me this. If your a sponsor shooter and been shooting for six years your not a novice.
> DB
> DB


Take it to the ASA. Their game, their rules. And I ain't saying something shouldn't be done. Had it my way there wouldn't be a Bow Novice.

Somebody wants to start a petition to remove Bow Novice, make it two years only or have it automatic move out if they break some realist number, I'll put my name to it.....


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Just pick a class and shoot and if you are a really solid shooter and you go to a asa and shoot in the novice class just to win then you are not a man and everyone who knows you and your shooting ability knows you are not a man so go ahead and shoot in the beginner class.

I had a couple of seventh place finishes in the first half of the asa season last year in open b and I chose it even though some people told me to shoot open c and get win first. I jumped to open a even though some guys told me to stay in open b because by the end of the season I might finish decent in the shooter of the year category. I didn't pick open a because I think I am better than the other open b shooters I just enjoy judging more than the known day so I moved.Again I picked my classes for personal reasons and I have really enjoyed shooting in open a this year, I like the guys in the class and I even tied for first in Kentucky. I need to finish really high at the classic to win out and maybe it will happen but I am happy where I am and can't wait to see if I can throw up a second good score this year. I am a man because my dad raised me to be one and I refuse to win in a class that I shouldn't be in.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Good one, Padgett. I have never seen where it was good to "corner" or "sandbag" in Kindergarten class (Bow Novice). And I don't know how someone can sandbag in Bow Novice. My first year competing in ASA I shot Open C just because I knew nothing of ASA. And the next year they moved me out, but due to age, Super Senior


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

carlosii said:


> i guess senior bowhunter would fly but it should be the same distance as bowhunter and half and half just like bowhunter. shoot same range at the same time just like super senior and senior master.


Agreed. A "new" class _generally _needs to fit within the structure that is present. I say "generally" because sometimes major must take effect such as when K45 and K50 were added.



Padgett said:


> Just pick a class and shoot and if you are a really solid shooter and you go to a asa and shoot in the novice class just to win then you are not a man and everyone who knows you and your shooting ability knows you are not a man so go ahead and shoot in the beginner class.
> 
> I had a couple of seventh place finishes in the first half of the asa season last year in open b and I chose it even though some people told me to shoot open c and get win first. I jumped to open a even though some guys told me to stay in open b because by the end of the season I might finish decent in the shooter of the year category. I didn't pick open a because I think I am better than the other open b shooters I just enjoy judging more than the known day so I moved.Again I picked my classes for personal reasons and I have really enjoyed shooting in open a this year, I like the guys in the class and I even tied for first in Kentucky. I need to finish really high at the classic to win out and maybe it will happen but I am happy where I am and can't wait to see if I can throw up a second good score this year. I am a man because my dad raised me to be one and I refuse to win in a class that I shouldn't be in.


What you describe is how many if not most folks feel even if they don't have the skills to compete or finish as high as you have. Real "competitors" enjoy serious competition while striving to perform at their best at a challenging level. However, there are a *lot* folks that don't. They'll compete down a level or two so they can place higher, stroking their false machismo. There are guys that brag about placing third in a weak class of 10 shooters. He brags of winning "shooter of the year" only because they attended more tournaments than anyone else in their small class.

I've shot out of K45 this year. I haven't had what I consider a single above average weekend (for me) at an ASA shoot but I've also been lucky in that I haven't had what I would consider a really "BAD" (for me) weekend either. I have to decide between K50 or Senior Open next year.

I don't see me putting the time into increasing my distance judging skills as I have to really work at it to be only decent at judging so that is strike one against Senior Open. I _currently _have the shooting skills to have fun in Senior Open and I would be shooting with my peers. K50 has a $125 entry fee......strike one. Senior Open is VERY competitive with some excellent 3D'ers. Heck, if I won a big $$ lottery I'd buy me a full range of targets and give Senior Pro a go for a year just for grins! 

So, K50 or Senior Open next year? I'm about positive I will not decide until just a few weeks before a shoot date and that is only if I go to any shoots next year. I LOVE "new" challenges........


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

Shooting a bow and arrow has nothing to do with the measure of a man. And because you shoot in a different class doesn't determine that either. That's close to the stupidest thing I've ever read on here. If that be the case, then you aren't a man because there are classes above the one you are shooting in. Put on your man pants and step up to Semi Pro or Open Pro, if shooting in higher classes makes you a man in your eyes. If you've already shown you can finish toward the top in your current class, then practice what you preach and move up, otherwise you are in the same boat as the ones you are trying to put down for doing the same exact thing. The first part of your post is good for everybody to adhere to...just pick a class and shoot. If somebody's skill level is above the class they are shooting in....they aren't going to be in that class for long and will be forced to move.

Follow ya'lls own advice that you gave in the umbrella threads: stop worrying and murmuring about things that don't even effect you.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Crow Terminator said:


> Shooting a bow and arrow has nothing to do with the measure of a man. And because you shoot in a different class doesn't determine that either. That's close to the stupidest thing I've ever read on here. If that be the case, then you aren't a man because there are classes above the one you are shooting in. Put on your man pants and step up to Semi Pro or Open Pro, if shooting in higher classes makes you a man in your eyes. If you've already shown you can finish toward the top in your current class, then practice what you preach and move up, otherwise you are in the same boat as the ones you are trying to put down for doing the same exact thing. The first part of your post is good for everybody to adhere to...just pick a class and shoot. If somebody's skill level is above the class they are shooting in....they aren't going to be in that class for long and will be forced to move.
> 
> Follow ya'lls own advice that you gave in the umbrella threads: stop worrying and murmuring about things that don't even effect you.


Then you need to read more threads and/or re-read my post so maybe you can better understand what it is that I'm saying....... Definitely the latter as your comments are WAYYYYYY off. Do you look for things to get your panties in a bunch? Sure seems like it! It's either that or you really don't understand this thread in any way shape or form............


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Take it to the ASA. Their game, their rules. And I ain't saying something shouldn't be done. Had it my way there wouldn't be a Bow Novice.
> 
> Somebody wants to start a petition to remove Bow Novice, make it two years only or have it automatic move out if they break some realist number, I'll put my name to it.....



I did on a state level more than once and went on deaf ears. Know archers winning pro ams that have no buisness in novice class from my state. Hope there proud of there accomplishments after years of shooting. I know right from wrong and they honestly just bend the rules to fit them. Just because you never won on ASA level means you start at novice level.
DB


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> Then you need to read more threads and/or re-read my post so maybe you can better understand what it is that I'm saying....... Definitely the latter as your comments are WAYYYYYY off. Do you look for things to get your panties in a bunch? Sure seems like it! It's either that or you really don't understand this thread in any way shape or form............


Why would I need to re-read your post to see what YOU were saying? You weren't the one that said anything about not being a man, etc, so why in the world would you assume I was talking to you in my post? You need to be the one going back and re-reading. You'll see who I was talking to. That should have been obvious, since you quoted him but apparently not.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Crow Terminator said:


> Shooting a bow and arrow has nothing to do with the measure of a man. And because you shoot in a different class doesn't determine that either. That's close to the stupidest thing I've ever read on here. If that be the case, then you aren't a man because there are classes above the one you are shooting in. Put on your man pants and step up to Semi Pro or Open Pro, if shooting in higher classes makes you a man in your eyes. If you've already shown you can finish toward the top in your current class, then practice what you preach and move up, otherwise you are in the same boat as the ones you are trying to put down for doing the same exact thing. The first part of your post is good for everybody to adhere to...just pick a class and shoot. If somebody's skill level is above the class they are shooting in....they aren't going to be in that class for long and will be forced to move.
> 
> Follow ya'lls own advice that you gave in the umbrella threads: stop worrying and murmuring about things that don't even effect you.


Exactly! Feel free to block ALL my posts!



Crow Terminator said:


> Why would I need to re-read your post to see what YOU were saying? You weren't the one that said anything about not being a man, etc, so why in the world would you assume I was talking to you in my post?  You need to be the one going back and re-reading. You'll see who I was talking to. That should have been obvious, since you quoted him but apparently not.


Because you posted directly AFTER my post! It's not rocket science. If you had quoted whom you were zinging it would NOT be confusing.

Maybe you should simply ignore my posts and threads. This is a basic discussion and nothing more. No one including Padgett was attacking you......... chill.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I teach middle school algebra and basic math which means we load up all the motivated smart kids into one algebra class or two and the average to low average kids are in basic classes. At the end of the year we take the state tests and the algebra kids will be 100% advanced scores every year and the basic classes will have poor scores. Some of our math teachers are put in a elite category because they have classes that have the 100% success rates but I refuse to take credit openly in our meetings. Math is the only subject that breaks the kids into groups based on ability level so the science and English teachers have no chance of ever achieving 100% advanced scores and I refuse to take credit for things in life that I have done nothing to deserve.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

By the way everything you do in life is directly related to to weather or not you are a man, being a man is a huge responsibility and most boys fail their entire life to actually become one. Pretenders are why my wife spends all week putting people in prison and why we have issues in our sport with arrow calling and sandbagging and pencil pushing.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

CT did you spot read what Padgett wrote....or did you simply just not understand what he said? 

Shooting a bow and arrow has nothing to do with being a man....your class being lower then mine doesn't either. 

HOWEVER.... Sandbagging does. Which is basically what he is saying. If your not a NOVICE then why are you shooting that class....if you have been shooting for years but never shot an ASA event or not in years....you don't belong in open C. Man up and shoot where you belong. 

As far as I'm concerned....there are too many damn classes anyway. If you want to get your feet wet at an ASA shoot then jump in the damn water. There is no "beginner" class at Vegas or NFAA or FITA events....is it really that big of a deal to shoot your bow past 30 yds. Seriously....

Nobody is really gonna travel and spend all that money that hasn't shot 3D already locally....

ONE pin class....
ONE Open class....
K45
Semi....which I also think is a head scratcher class...I'm kind of a pro

Money payouts would be greater and or deeper....

Now before someone says something about ranges.....shoot one range today and the other tomorrow.... The group that shot range range X on Saturday shoots range Z on Sunday....those that shot Z on Sat shoot X on Sun. 

I know I know....someone will tell their buddy target 16 was 42 yds. Well 1st off that's cheating yourself. So I doubt that's gonna happen very often...2nd if I have to tell you the yardage your not a threat anyway. :wink:

You shouldn't s forced to move up to K50....or out of Open A....since there is a silly "novice class" that sandbaggers play in...yes you should have to move out...one win and your out...X amount of dollars won and your out....X number of shoots and your out. Your certainly not a novice more then one year if your going to most of the shoots. 


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I experienced what brown hornet mentioned at the Iowa pro am indoor, I signed up and shot in the same class as REO and chance and the other pro shooters. I only shot a 300 55x the first day but being on the same line as those guys with a chance even though a small one was cool.

I am excited for the classic because I heard open a may be shooting the pro course and this will allow me to measure myself against them.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Padgett said:


> I am excited for the classic because I heard open a may be shooting the pro course and this will allow me to measure myself against them.


The last time they had Open A on a 50 yard range, the range got super short (Paris). 

I'm assuming and hoping they'll restake it pretty hard. 



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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Padgett said:


> I experienced what brown hornet mentioned at the Iowa pro am indoor, I signed up and shot in the same class as REO and chance and the other pro shooters. I only shot a 300 55x the first day but being on the same line as those guys with a chance even though a small one was cool.
> 
> I am excited for the classic because I heard open a may be shooting the pro course and this will allow me to measure myself against them.


I hear 'ya.
I shot on the same bale as Dave Cousins at an LAS Classic a few years ago. I was shooting BHFS and actually had him down by 10 points at one point........but then he shot his first arrow and I was promptly down by one!!!! :becky:


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

WOW! So NFAA is not the only organization infested with small pond participants. Whatever happened to the premise "I would rather be last in the top class than first in a lower class".

Is FITA the only archery venue to avoid feel good ego stroking organization of purported competition events.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

FS560 said:


> WOW! So NFAA is not the only organization infested with small pond participants. Whatever happened to the premise "I would rather be last in the top class than first in a lower class".
> 
> Is FITA the only archery venue to avoid feel good ego stroking organization of purported competition events.


I sort of get where you're coming from, but.... No matter what class sooner or later the top dog is challenged, beat and replaced.
"last in top class and first in a lower class" I've ran into in a manner. At a club shoot; I had taken 2nd in Championship Flight at a previous state event and here was this guy telling of taking 1st place in the same Championship and same class. The only thing was he forgot to tell the listeners he got 1st in flight "C." ??? 15 to a Flight, correct? So he actually finished 31st?


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