# Advice for 3 Newbies?



## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Greetings, this is my first post here. I feel fairly strange talking about this with strangers, as I'm sure its a fairly unusual situation, but I assure you this is 100% serious.

Okay, two friends and I (we're all women in our 30's, urban professionals who have spent the better part of our lives in big cities) have all experienced death very close to home over the past few years (birthed a stillborn child, and lost a partner, and a parent respectively). We're all acutely aware that we have issues with loss and death. Anyway, one of my friends sees a grief counsellor regularly and came across the revelation that in order to feel comfortable with the fragility of life and death that a good way to conquer those feelings is by taking a life/hunting. In light of strict gun laws and active children in the home who think rifles are big shiny toys (not a chance worth taking) we decided that we would do this and that bowhunting is the way to go. 

I think we all have a lot to gain from this experience, and either way, I want to do what I can to support my dear friend who is still dealing with the unimaginable agony of losing her first son during labor. This hunt has nothing to do with humoring boyfriends/husbands/lovers or bravado. For us this is a spiritual/healing excercise. Of course everybody we've told thinks that we are crazy to do this. It's very much a fish out of water situation.

Here's the catch, none of us have ever hunted before, know very little about bowhunting, we have located a couple of nearby places that offer lessons. We've signed up for hunters & bowhunters ed classes in order to get a license this fall. We've found state parks nearby that allow bowhunting only seasons with a state permit. We are still working on getting bows that fit well that won't kill our budgets. I just ordered a used Jennings Black Lightning with 45# strength I will have tuned up at a pro shop after it arrives. Its early in the process. Anyway, we are at stage one in this process. We have a male friend who has bowhunted before and has offered to let us watch one of his trips, but he's travelling/working all summer long and has not been very available. 

We all work out in some way, but are still big girls (one friend is an avid fencer, one studies kendo, and I practice hatha yoga and hike often) but are wondering if we should be doing focused workouts (strength training, maybe take pilates classes to have better upper body flexibility) when its hard to get to a range. Can anyone suggest ways to get into shape for bowhunting that don't make you bulk up too much? I'm ready to commit to a daily routine, but I have no clue what it should be. 

Also, being that we are beginners, is there any advice, tips, or tricks to offer us? What accessories are essential? Has anyone had a similar experience? Thanks in advance.


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## michael bilbrey (May 27, 2005)

*practice*

If you are planning to hunt this fall you need to practice practice practice!!!!
If you have a back yard that is 50 feet you can practice to 15 yards. But try to go to a range as often as possible to practice out to thirty. You also might want to post this in the hunting section and most of the guys and gals will be very helpful in tips and so on. Good luck and good hunting.


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

Hi I am a male that has mentor daughters 2 wive and other significant ladies

suggest if at all possible find an Experienced lady bowhunter or a couple m/f that will help you.

Join an archery club and meet folks at the ranges. 

ask at friendly archery shops if there is a Bowhuntign lady around you would chat with.

Take a BOW program becoming an Outdoors Women contact your State DNR Education Coordinator

there is a web site called women hunters on Yahoo.com that is very good Several women hunting clubs on line

they offer sound and friendly advise to new women hunters



here is 67 year old lady that got into Bowhuntign 2-1/years ago


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## azone5 (Jan 5, 2004)

artemesia said:


> I think we all have a lot to gain from this experience, and either way, I want to do what I can to support my dear friend who is still dealing with the unimaginable agony of losing her first son during labor. This hunt has nothing to do with humoring boyfriends/husbands/lovers or bravado. For us this is a spiritual/healing excercise. Of course everybody we've told thinks that we are crazy to do this.


Welcome to Archery Talk. I find your post quite interesting and do not think you are embarking on a crazy quest. I suspect the time you spend in the woods hunting by yourself will be a spiritual experience. It will make you appreciate life, yours and the life you see and hear in the woods. There is plenty of time for reflection. Once you enter the woods and acclimate yourself to its rhythms, you will breathe slowly, comfortably, and will completely relax. Because you are there does not mean you have to take life. Some of my most memorable hunts were when I decided to be a spectator. You can learn a great deal by just observing. I think you will find that hunters are nature lovers and they respect and greatly value the animals they harvest. They study the animals and their habitat and the better hunters truly understand the behavior of the animals. The more knowledge you gain, the more contact with the animals you will have. I'm always a little sad when I have harvested an animal, but at the same time, I'm excited to have been blessed with the opportunity to have such a special relationship with the animal harvested. These become significant memories that stay forever. I love to touch the animal I harvest and to treat it respectfully.

Please stay on AT and let us know how you and your friends progress, and let us know how we can help.


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## dahmer (Jan 16, 2005)

Hang in there! I lost my Dad in March and the people on AT were a big help. For exercise, don't go "Dancing to the Oldies" for hours on end. The best things that helped my wife and the neighbor kid's girlfriend were some push-ups and bent over rows. Take some lessons from the Pro Shop. Will greatly accelerate the learning curve. Practice is the key to archery skills developing and a majority is a combination of consistent repetition and concentration. Bowhunting for me lets me see the beauty that GOD has put here for us and the great responsibility we have to make quick clean kills. Look at PSALM 19:1 for a great revelation about creation. Ask any questions you might have. The only dumb question will be the one you don't ask. We all had to learn at some point. Mark.


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## Scooter_SC (Jan 26, 2005)

I hope you don't take this wrong, but you may be bighting off more than you can chew. Deer hunting with is a gun is difficult enough for a beginner, but starting off with a bow is 10 times as difficult. By no means am I trying to discourage you, even though it may not seem like that.

My suggestion would be to find someone who is an avid hunter and stick to them like glue. Have them take you out hunting a few times to get the feel for it. If you are going to hunt with a bow, practice all the time. Learn how deer operate. Buy, rent, or borrow some deer hunting videos. Read up on deer hunting by the way of magazines and books. 

If you want to be successful with a deer, you have to give it its due respect. A lot of non-hunters think it’s just a matter of walking into the woods - drawing you bow - and harvesting a deer. Not even close...

Perhaps for your first hunt, you may want to consider a guided hunt.

Best of luck to you all... :thumbs_up Welcome to our passion!


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## WIbow (Nov 10, 2004)

Just have fun shooting and don't even worry about hunting right now....
Concentrate on good form and habits and shoot with some peolpe that can give you pointers and suggestions and shoot,shoot and shoot and worry about hunting (with confidence) later when your skills are honed. :wink:


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks so much for the advice - I should have mentioned, we are planning on hunting wild turkey and pheasant to start, not deer as its less of an unreachable goal and they are fairly common in area preserves that have a bowhunting only turkey season. I'm waiting on my used bow to arrive & plan to take it to a pro-shop an hour away to get tuned up/accessorized. The negative is the closest range to me is in the back room of a sports goods megastore that closes at the time I get out of work during the week, although there is a fish & game club only 40 minutes away that I will investigate further when I actually have a bow of my own (on its way). I can shoot about 30' in my yard without being too close to other houses & plan to set up a target bag & practice before work every morning. What books do you reccommend for beginners? (I am probably way more at home with books than bows at this point).

Thanks.







Scooter_SC said:


> I hope you don't take this wrong, but you may be bighting off more than you can chew. Deer hunting with is a gun is difficult enough for a beginner, but starting off with a bow is 10 times as difficult. By no means am I trying to discourage you, even though it may not seem like that.
> 
> My suggestion would be to find someone who is an avid hunter and stick to them like glue. Have them take you out hunting a few times to get the feel for it. If you are going to hunt with a bow, practice all the time. Learn how deer operate. Buy, rent, or borrow some deer hunting videos. Read up on deer hunting by the way of magazines and books.


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## No Mercy (Feb 12, 2005)

Dave Holt's Balanced Bowhunting 2 is a great book. It offers alot of hunting and technical information.

Bowhunter and all the different magazines also offer alot of useful information, especially for beginning hunters.

Good Luck-keep us posted!


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thank you for your very kind welcome. 

I spend a few days every year backpacking in the Adirondaks, and go hiking whenever I can. Its wonderful, I would not trade it for anything. The most incredible experience of my life was living off the land (and nutrition bars) for nine days at ThingveillR park in Iceland during 24 hour daylight, among the geysers and glaciers using only what I could carry listening to nature. Nature is sacred and in my own religious practices a vital component of spirituality.
I rarely approach this with any set goals or agendas. I think I am probably more the nutty crunchy backpacking than hunting type. (my friends and I are joking, any stories we have after the fact will start "A computer programmer, a librarian, and a stock analyst walk into a hunting stand...") 
The issue I'm dealing with is going out with the intent to take a life and the grappling with the paradox of simultaneously honoring the being and killing it. (Its far more honorable to kill your food than to buy it at a supermarket IMO, which is why I would only eat a mammal that I would kill with a clear conscience- as mentioned earlier a big part of this 'quest' is confronting issues with death head on rather than allowing it to become a hurdle in life. My strengths in life and what I have to offer to the greater good are not warrior/hunter, but its important to test one's comfort zones to lead a fuller life - at least for me, this is pushing the boundaries). More than anything, I don't want to cause undue suffering. For all of the time and work and money involved in this process, the idea of being responsible for suffering causes me the most anxiety of anything.




azone5 said:


> Welcome to Archery Talk. I find your post quite interesting and do not think you are embarking on a crazy quest. I suspect the time you spend in the woods hunting by yourself will be a spiritual experience. It will make you appreciate life, yours and the life you see and hear in the woods. There is plenty of time for reflection. Once you enter the woods and acclimate yourself to its rhythms, you will breathe slowly, comfortably, and will completely relax.


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks for the book tip. Darn, the book is not in my library system. I'll try amazon.

-added, I did not see the second edition, but picked up a used copy of the 1988 version. I'm looking forward to reading it.


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## No Mercy (Feb 12, 2005)

The first edition is great also...if you want the second edition PM me...I can get one to you. :smile:


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Well after I get the book, I work at a library anyway and can get almost any book thats not an antique to borrow, so I'll see if I can get a copy from an out of state library (not ONE in NY State's public/uni libraries believe it or not, I did the serach from home) if its only a few chapters that are different. Between book club books/development books for work, working on an archivist's certificate, and this insane distance grad school program I was mad to enroll in thinking it would be easier than real school, I have minimal "fun" reading time.


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

*Ortega y Gasset*

Again the National Bowhunter Education Foundation & the State DNR offer a Basic Bowhunting Program Called the IBEP


Call the State DNR Education Coordinator for a list of BOWHUNTER ED classes

They cover the Ethics part well and when you find out that a Sharp arrow is more lethal than a claw or a fang, and that 90% of African Lions only wound their prey, it make the bow look pretty good.

Take it ASAP

Ortega y Gasset was a Spanish Philosopher who died in 1942 Wrote about hunting and the taking of life.

BOOK called MEDITATIONS ON HUNTING is a classic, a masterpiece on ethics of hunting

My books ( his Book MEDITATIONS ON HUNTING) are in storage but he talks about the killing part of hunting in such a manner and with such eloquence, that you will remember it.  

Check the Net 


Check Hunting Book Sales Houses .....they might have it Rare Book dealers

can get it for you It was in Paperback about 1972
Good Luck

Tink


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

ANy Archery Shop can Order Balanced Bowhunting II by DAVE HOLT Check the Net Tink


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## No Mercy (Feb 12, 2005)

Sounds good...let us know if you need anything. It's always great to help new hunters!


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## azone5 (Jan 5, 2004)

artemesia said:


> More than anything, I don't want to cause undue suffering. For all of the time and work and money involved in this process, the idea of being responsible for suffering causes me the most anxiety of anything.
> 
> Artemesia - it sounds like you are level headed and well prepared philosophically for your task and are doing the physical and equipment preparation needed to be successful.
> 
> Have fun shooting and being outdoors. I have hunted deer for years with firearms but just started bowhunting last year. It's much harder, but more rewarding, even though I did not shoot a deer with my bow. I definitely learned more last year.


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## Seth the XSlayr (Feb 20, 2005)

Take each part of your experience with you out of the woods into your daily life.
Hunting is a very, very spiritual experience, from the smells in the woods to the sunsets and running water.

When you take your first animal you will be overwhelmed with joy, grief, sorrow, anxiety, and accomplishment. Do not look at it as though you are "killing" the animal, look at it as though you are part of the balance of life.

You will walk up on your harvest with tears in your eyes most likely, if you're with your two friends at the time then it's going to be even more emotional.

Hunting, no matter your quarry or motivation, is a time consuming process that starts with what you've done here: Taking the initiative to learn everything you can to prepare you for what will happen.

Archery is a whole other world of spirituality as well. I must say that there is NOTHING like taking an animal with your bow. When you see your arrows fly through the arrow and impact a practice target, the flight of the arrow will mesmorize you and hopefully you'll fall in love with it for the rest of your lives, spreading it to everyone you can.

When you actually guide that arrow to your intended target in the woods, it will be just you, your hunting party, your quarry, that arrow and God. I'm excited for you that you'll be experiencing this soon.


It will be a great way for you to better understand the balance of life, please share your progress with us as you move along on your journey.





Seth


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## Tropicalfruitmo (Mar 17, 2005)

*Hold on a minute!*

Having been involved in social work and, to some extent, grief counselling for many years, I have some serious concerns. BTW - I have lost both parents, my best friend, and had to counsel my students after a classmate was shot and killed, so I know death and grief on a very personal level. A friend's daughter just died this morning, leaving two little girls.

*I do not, in any way, agree with your therapists recommendation. Taking a life by hunting will not make you feel any better about death. It will, in fact, do the opposite because of your heightened sensitivity to loss. *  

The sport of archery, however, is an extremely cathartic activity. I chose archery following the death of my mother because it forced me to focus and concentrate. When you are shooting, nothing else can enter your mind. Once you get the hang of it, you can shoot field and 3D archery, going out into the woods where the targets are set up and enjoying nature without killing anything. Plus, the time you spend in the woods with your friends, creating POSITIVE EXPERIENCES will go much farther to mending broken hearts.

If you choose to bowhunt at a later date, do it with a clear mind. Do it with the mindset that you are supplying food for your family and, by harvesting this animal, you are preserving nature for the future generations that the meat is feeding. Never go into the woods with a "death for a death" mentality. 

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your friends.


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## dea dell'arco (Feb 28, 2005)

First off, sorry for your loss. I will agree with Scooter..don't jump in with both feet. I would not begin to venture out without a mentor. I have been shooting a bow for over a year. I plan to start hunting this fall, but only with the guidance of my boyfriend or one of my other close friends that hunt. Turkey are tough, very tough. I have been along on a couple turkey hunts and getting a shot with a gun is hard, let alone a bow. A bad shot could leave a wounded, but not dead animal. I would think this would cause more problems then good for your reasoning. I would suggest that you attempt to find some 3d shoots. You will get the feel for how well (after some serious practicing) you can shoot at animals in wood scenarios. They are lots of fun and if you are not turning in your score, you can shoot from where ever you feel comfortable. Find some seasoned hunters that are willing to help. Hunting takes a great deal of skill and patience. Maybe a realistic goal would be to prepare this year with hopes of spring or next fall hunting. Until then the three of you could practice together. Spending time shooting with people you care about is a healing experience in itself. Good luck.


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## Huntin4Elk (Mar 11, 2004)

artemesia.......................please check you pm's. 

Thanks


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## Huntin4Elk (Mar 11, 2004)

Tropicalfruitmo said:


> *I do not, in any way, agree with your therapists recommendation. Taking a life by hunting will not make you feel any better about death. It will, in fact, do the opposite because of your heightened sensitivity to loss. *
> 
> My thoughts and prayers are with you and your friends.



I agree 100%.


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## Seth the XSlayr (Feb 20, 2005)

Personally I would say that if a person specifically seeks out hunting as a way of trying to understand their feelings, then it will not have a detrimental effect on the person's outlook concerning the situation. Everything has a beginning and an end...

Of course take some time to make sure you are prepared for what you are going to be doing, and if you are still comfortable with making it into the woods, great. If not, still give archery a try!


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## RazorTag (Jun 21, 2004)

My advice is to find a mentor. To get from neophyte to harvesting an animal with a bow is going to take time and a lot of learning. If I were in your situation with no close available mentor I would start with one of these programs. Try to find one in your area.

National Wild Turkey Federation Women in the Outdoors.
http://www.womenintheoutdoors.org/wito/

Becoming an Outdoors Woman
http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/bow/

Enjoy the journey. If you do reach your goal you will not be the same person you were. I truly believe that you and your friends will overcome your grief and find peace before you get to the point where you take an animal. The new relationships you gain in the archery and hunting pursuits and the new things you learn about yourself will do that.

R/T


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

I have to get through regular hunter's ed before I can take the bow class. (need both to get my first time license in my state) I am signed up to do both in August, the general one at the outdoor sports megastore a few towns over and the bowhunters one at a pro shop 90 minutes away. They don't offer them much earlier. I'm earnestly surprised and slightly horrified that my state requires more class time to bowhunt than to recognize signs of abuse in children. 




Africanbowhunter said:


> Again the National Bowhunter Education Foundation & the State DNR offer a Basic Bowhunting Program Called the IBEP
> 
> 
> Call the State DNR Education Coordinator for a list of BOWHUNTER ED classes
> ...


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Tropicalfruitmo said:


> Having been involved in social work and, to some extent, grief counselling for many years, I have some serious concerns. BTW - I have lost both parents, my best friend, and had to counsel my students after a classmate was shot and killed, so I know death and grief on a very personal level. A friend's daughter just died this morning, leaving two little girls.9


I am very horribly sorry for all of these losses, it must be very tragic for those poor little girls especially.



> *I do not, in any way, agree with your therapists recommendation. Taking a life by hunting will not make you feel any better about death. It will, in fact, do the opposite because of your heightened sensitivity to loss. *


It was not my therapist, but that of a very close friend, and it was a breakthrough that she had in session. Her loss is unimaginable and I admire her strength to take a proactive role in healing herself. She has military experience, so is lucky to have that soldier mentality when needed, but in reality was a techie not in the front lines. I've had almost 4 years to deal with my own close close loss. I've sought professional help and feel very very proud of the way that I have shaped my life in that time. Its not so much about feeling better about death as much as becoming intimately familiar with it, and becoming more in touch with my own place in the process. 
I need to get past the "ick" factor and all of that. Being uncomfortable around dead things is a personal flaw I want to remedy. The discipline involved is very attractive as well. I have enormous respect for the sport.



> If you choose to bowhunt at a later date, do it with a clear mind. Do it with the mindset that you are supplying food for your family and, by harvesting this animal, you are preserving nature for the future generations that the meat is feeding. Never go into the woods with a "death for a death" mentality.


I'm looking at it more as a "gift for a gift". I would respect the life of anything that was harvested and would not waste any of it. If I were to tag a deer at some later date, I would probably tan the hide and donate it to a food bank. Local shelters/food banks will process vennisson and feed it to the homeless.
I think that might be a great thing to do, as I am lucky enough to not worry much about where my next meal is coming from.


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## Seth the XSlayr (Feb 20, 2005)

Sounds like you'll learn a lot by stepping into the woods...Good luck.


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

Welcome to a whole new world.

The outsiders tend to look at hunters as killers who have no feelings for that of which they hunt when the reality is much different. I don't know of any hunters who don't have to take a moment of inner reflection after a harvest where some serious emotions run through your mind. 

I'm certainly not a psychologist but I can only imagine what one would carry with them emotionally if they lost a child during birth. The emotional weight (in my opinion) would be so great that seeing an animal die at your hand would bring those memories back even clearer instead of cleansing the memories.

Please don't be offended by my opinion, it isn't meant to be offensive. I hope this experience can help but I worry about the opposite effect.

I wish all 3 of you women my best.


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## azone5 (Jan 5, 2004)

Artemesia,

When the prey is in sight, to say it's exciting is an under statement. After the animal is down and you have calmed down, the difficult work begins - field dressing and transporting the animal (I don't have a four wheeler and hunt by myself). I would strongly suggest a mentor assist with this part because you will need help and because it may be traumatic. One way to prepare yourself for this is to get an instructional video of someone field dressing a deer. I think this is information you should share with your friends before you proceed too much further.


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

Sorry But I really dont think that you have the Take a Hunter education/Safety Course Course before taking a Bowhunter education course By NY may have done something stupid You can take it in Conn RI NJ PA etc and Most other States recognize it


There is No requirement from national HQS of NBEF that prevents anyone from taking the IBEP


we had a 7 year old and a nine (9) year old take it in South Africa She could not write yet( 2nd grade) but she gave oral respondes. 
She Scored 99% on the 3 written IBEP exams her 9 year older sister scored 97% and her Mom only got 95%.

She aced the where to Shoot Aniamal Examl

When the girl was 6, she made a home made bow and shot doves from a tent blind. She baited the birds with white bread crumbs.

When they landed she shot them form about 5 feet witha old arrow her dad gave her and she gt a bunch,

When she killed one she took it to her mom, who cooked it for her, and she had it for dinner while the other family members didn't get any of her birds.

After the IBEP I stopped by to show her a warthog my ex shot.

She had made a display for her Sunday School of two grounds blinds types

One round like beehive made of straw and a square ground blind made form toothpicks to represent sticks in the South African Bushveldt.

The little girl had glued in trees, brush and laid out game trails and shooting windows in the blinds.

She had taken take this Display to her Sunday school that morning, and she was teaching the other kids her version of Bowhunter Education! 
She was 7!


I stand for correction if I am wrong

Tink Nathan
Co Founder =National Bowhunter Education Program

Thanks

Tink


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

*So you are a Librarian huh?*

Two Books for your Collection:


With rifle and Petticoat

Women as Big Game Hunters 1880-1940

Kenneth P CZECH

The Derrydale Press Dist by National Book Networks 1 800 462 6420

_________________________________________________________________

The Diana Files The Huntress-Traveller Throughout History .... by
FIONA CLAIRE CAPSTICK 365 pages


Fifi was the wife my my late Best Buddy ,Peter Hathaway Capstick who died in 1998 in Pretoria South Africa. He wrote 27 books in 33 languages and was the best selling Hunting Writer of all time

Published by Roland Ward Tel 877 424 3220

ISBN 0-9584590-4-5


It a classic and I know several of the Women that are featured in the Book enjoy :slice: 


Tink


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

jonnybow said:


> Welcome to a whole new world.
> 
> The outsiders tend to look at hunters as killers who have no feelings for that of which they hunt when the reality is much different. I don't know of any hunters who don't have to take a moment of inner reflection after a harvest where some serious emotions run through your mind.


I've never met anyone who hunts that does so because they like killing things. 
I cant imagine NOT feeling anything.



> I'm certainly not a psychologist but I can only imagine what one would carry with them emotionally if they lost a child during birth. The emotional weight (in my opinion) would be so great that seeing an animal die at your hand would bring those memories back even clearer instead of cleansing the memories.


Well, my friend is an exceptionally tough cookie. I honestly believe that in another place and time, she would have been one of the few women on the battlefeild in hand to hand combat and/or a herbalist on the front lines, rather than a traditional housewife. She served in the Gulf War, was in the twin towers when the planes struck, (and through all of this chaos has maintained her integrity and kept her emotions in balance) and is a remarkably strong person. I admire her so much. She's going to do this with or without support and wants to do this with other women she is close to rather than her husband or brother. She's never deliberately taken a life (she was a tech person in the Air Force). She's very sure this is something she needs to do.



> I wish all 3 of you women my best.


Thank You, I'll keep the board posted.


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Cool, I'll definitely check those out. Thanks for all of the book reccomendations. It sounds as if you've had an amazingly interesting life. 



Africanbowhunter said:


> Two Books for your Collection:
> 
> 
> With rifle and Petticoat
> ...


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

*Yes, thank you...*

Thank you...I get around, been there done that..
A brief profile, Bowhunting wise, is found on my website

www.bowhuntingsafaris.net
Came to Louisiana 3 year ago to write my book on my 33 years in Africa and got blindsided by a Redhead. Hired a Harvard Radcliffe Grad to Help, she took my fee and took off. After I move to Texas and get access to my 25,000 color photos I will do the book.

Highlight of my life was the 9 Years I lived in South Africa where I was the first American ever licensed by the Gov't as a Professional Hunter ( Hunting Guide) and later as a Hunting Outfitter (safari Outfitter)

I did what Dennys Finch Hatton Did in "Out of Africa" Played by Robert Redford. I was a full time Professional Hunter ( called PH )


Only about 10 Americans have done that in the last 50 years, Jeff Rann, Cotton Gordon, Mark Sullivan, Joe Bell, Peter Capstick,and other.

Peter Hathaway Capstick was the most famous.

I took out hunting & bowhunting Safaris and also started the first Bowhunting College in all of Africa.

I even taught South African Muslims and an Islamic Holy Man/IMAM to bowhunt. Trained Game Wardens, Game ranchers, PH's, Game capture guys, Writers, Landowners, and the son of a Chief from Tanzania.


PM me any time 
The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask.
I mentor a number of lady bowhunters. Most are better hunters than I will ever be,too.


Best


Tink


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

*Peter Hathaway Capstick*

Talking about Peter Capstick here is a photo of Peter taken not long before his death when I was his house guest in Pretoria when I had a sick dog in the Vet university for Spien Operations.....
My Ex DR Dean in center...Peter left..Tink on the right in my formal city wear in RSA

The Black critter is a huge Sable Bull


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## boogy (Mar 16, 2005)

might i suggest you not even hunt this year, just get out in the woods, see the sights, smell the smells, watch the sun come up, and go down.
shooting an animal is just a fraction of the experience, best shared with friends in camp by the way.


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks for all of your advice Tink. Very interesting. I wish you lots of luck on your memoirs and better luck with the next ghost writer. Amazing that you took an elephant down with a bow. 

Well I've made a bit of progress in this. A friend and I spent the day driving about 75 miles visiting local pro archery shops and I've narrowed down my bow choices to 3 (plus one irrational used item that is absolutely gorgeous and well outside of my budget equipped with top of the line gear and is a flaming pink, but
I really loved the way that it felt and looked and it was not insanely more expensive than my most expensive potential bow - if I get good at this and love it, I now aspire to get a Merlin) and have a better idea of what I need to be doing. I got something cheap, old, and used on ebay that I just think feels too wrong and bulky for me, and will probably gift to someone. So now I am between (at different price points) the Mathews Mustang, the Martin Tigress, and the PSE Spyder RimCam. I have a lot of tension in my left arm from drawing bows all day, have figured out draw length and the weight I can comfortably pull. My big guilt trip is that I believe in supporting specialist/hobbyist businesses and the Tigress was $200 less than I was quoted at a pro shop/saw online/in the catalog at the big corporate sports megastore who has some bulk deal with Martin. So while the PSE is about what I want to spend, if I support the big guys, I get a much nicer bow for not that much more. The Mathews I am looking for used because I really really liked the way that it felt to draw. 

While I was at one of the pro shops, the friend whom I was with (I brought a male for the same reason that I do when car shopping or buying high end electronics) ran into an ex co-worker who's been hunting with bows for about 4 years and we hit it off and he's offered to help me out, and possibly even shadow him in the feild. He hunts at the same place every season and actually coopreatively hunts with ravens which is so interesting (they lead him to the prey and in exchange he leaves behind a piece of the kill, so they remember him and lead him to prey whenever they see him). 

I am overwhelmingly impressed at how friendly and helpful 
most of the archery folk I've come across have been. It seems like a very warm community.


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

boogy said:


> might i suggest you not even hunt this year, just get out in the woods, see the sights, smell the smells, watch the sun come up, and go down.
> shooting an animal is just a fraction of the experience, best shared with friends in camp by the way.


Well the hunting this year is dependent on many things, including how confident I am not to cause undue suffering and making a clean kill without hesitation (eg how fast I can make it on to 3D if I put 3-4 days a week into practice, even if its just target sacks in the yard for 30 minutes before getting ready for work -now to find lessons/ranges that work with my insane work schedule). But I definitely am looking forward to grabbing my pack, my love, and my dog and heading out into the mountains in early fall for a few days.


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

This is an incredidly intereting thread.
A few things come to mind after reading all the posts.
You seem like a very energetic individual that gives 100% to a chosen task. This can be a detriment in archery, learn to limit your practice sessions. Do not shoot until you're fatigued. Fatigue is one of the biggest factors in developing poor shooting form. It is better to shoot one arrow accurately than 50 arrows moderately. If you start shooting poorly during a session, stop. Don't try to force things to happen.
Also, learn the anatomy of your intended quarry. If a turkey is standing broadside to you, you're aiming point will be about where his leg joins his torso, not in the chest area. 
If the turkey hunting goes well you might consider a boar hunt. Most states have preserves with excellent boar hunting.
Best of luck to you and your friends.

Rick
Kansas Kustom Arrows


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks. I will definitely take that advice to heart. I am a really bad workaholic and am probably transferring that energy into this goal. I think because so much of this is about pushing my comfort zones, I am really anxious to just make the goal. 

At this point, I am at absolute square one. I'm pretty proud that by just spending a day testing bows that I already hit the target (itself, not the bullseye) but I have a very long way to go in terms of form and accuracy, or even having the confidence to get into a competition league. 

I have a friend of a friend who's done Boar Bosh Hunting with spears on the west coast. From what I understand, they are extremely fierce. That's something I wouldn't do for some time and until I learn to shoot a rifle as a backup (I grew up around and learned to shoot handguns, but I dont see people taking out a wild boar mob style very often).


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

*Bow choices Get the Mustang to Hunt with and the Merlin to shoot 3-D with*

The Mathews Mustang is the better of the three you mentioned 


It' s a winner!!!! The Merlin is a target bow- the Very highest quality and you would use that for 3-D competition 
For Bowhunting Practice & Training, shoot 3-D as a Hunting practice with your hunting arrow and field points(tips) to match the broadhead you will hunt with.

3-D teaches you to estimate distances. Its great & becoups fun


Maybe you can get Both ...The Merlin is top of the line but in Pink its not a hunting bow

Most people have a hunting bow camo & a competition bow in colors to WOW the other shooters.


The best practice is 10-20 arrows daily day in and out rather than 60 arrows on Saturday But both are good too.

In darkness but a target bag in the garage , flip onthe lights, shoot at 10 yards. Get those soft muscles a bit harder every day.

The mentor is great... he will show you the ropes...............


stick to him like a tick nd you will come right.

Warning on the Mustang Mathew are great bows but have very little adjustment Unlike bow with MODULES

The fact a bow is used is transparent i have few new firearms most are pre owned Pre owned guns & bow often come with goodies installed like rest sights etc


I would get the Mustang to Hunt with ( You can shot 3 D with it too) and the Merlin for 3-D

Merlin are truly exceptionally fine bows... make sure the draw length fits you as you can NOT take it back.


See if you can buy both put on your Visa card and pay on time for them...I have never seen a used Ladies Merlin in my life!

If you don't buy It, let me know & I will buy it OK?

Red Dot the lady I run with has a Pro Shop and she gives discount to women

Support your pro shop but we are lady Owned Pro shop too and we can help maybe on accessories, and hunting items, Blinds stands, ranegfinders etc


Yes AT is the best that why I hang otu here

Have a happy Weekend


Tink


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## No Mercy (Feb 12, 2005)

Looks like you are taking the correct steps and doing the right thing. Congrats and welcome to a very spiritual world. Archery is a discipline and takes a ton of practice-keep it up and it won't take long to develop your skills. Keep us posted!





artemesia said:


> Thanks. I will definitely take that advice to heart. I am a really bad workaholic and am probably transferring that energy into this goal. I think because so much of this is about pushing my comfort zones, I am really anxious to just make the goal.
> 
> At this point, I am at absolute square one. I'm pretty proud that by just spending a day testing bows that I already hit the target (itself, not the bullseye) but I have a very long way to go in terms of form and accuracy, or even having the confidence to get into a competition league.
> 
> I have a friend of a friend who's done Boar Bosh Hunting with spears on the west coast. From what I understand, they are extremely fierce. That's something I wouldn't do for some time and until I learn to shoot a rifle as a backup (I grew up around and learned to shoot handguns, but I dont see people taking out a wild boar mob style very often).


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Tink, check your PM's for the Merlin info.


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

thanks

Many spsortman hunt with handgun ....it takes extra skill like bowhunting....

here is a Impala Ram I took with my Ruger Redhawk .44mag in South Africa

One shot is the way to go


Happy Trails

Tink


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

*Update*

Just a fast update. After serious shopping/research, I've just put a deposit down on a Darton Vapor from my local pro shop and am having one sent in my draw weight. I've also found out where the closest range is to my house and a place to get at least starter lessons. I've also found out that my local community college has an archery class with a female instructor who is supposed to be great, so I am looking into that as well. 

I did try the challenger, the tigress, the spyder rimcam, the ultrasport, a few brownings, etc. Inexplicable, but the Vapor felt like my bow from the moment that I picked it up. Thank you all for all of the help and guidance these past couple of weeks. Its helped me so much. I really feel ready to jump into this now.


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## Galaxy (Jul 7, 2005)

I applaud you for what you are doing, remember a few things tho, you dont have to harvest an animal to be succesful, the day morning or evening spent in the wild can be as rewarding as anytime that you can spend, learn to watch the animals, they will give you signs of alarm that they see wether it be a predator or just another animal that happens to be nearby, you are not only going to be a hunter but a coservationist also, your confidence will be one of the biggest things that you will have to build up and over time you will you just have to practice, one thing you will notice is that you have chosen a very addictive sport slash hobby if you will which when you were looking at your first bows you saw part of this, you did the right thing too by letting the bow pick you instead of you picking the bow, this is one way that you know that it is what you want and that you can shoot it, again I applaud you and wish you luck..


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thank you. I'm planning to start watching the flight patterns of birds of prey, getting up early on days off and going at dawn to places I might hunt to watch the animals. (My bow is on order & I have a long way to go before attempting a kill). I am absolutely fascinated at the idea of doing cooperative hunting with wild birds of prey (if I had the space/time/living situation and no cute furry 4 legged children to worry about I'd definitely give falconry/ravenning a stab, its just so neat).

Another general question that I have. I'm starting to learn about this descenting stuff. Is there a sunblock type product made for hunters? I burn after 15 minutes but what I used is very scented.


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

Hi Artemesia,

If turkey will be your quarry, you might want to consider an insect repellent also. Not much need to worry about scent with turkey, their main senses are sight and hearing. You'll need good camoflage clothing.
Here's a link to check out for the sunblock/insect repellent:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...00&productId=27923&parent_category_rn=4500560

Good Luck,

Rick


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks again Rick. Have you used this stuff? The idea of deet on skin makes me a little nervous, but may be ok occasionally. At the risk of sounding like a high maintanence princess, as far as camo stuff, I was just planning to get a camo print hoodie from the army navy shop to go with my army camo utili-kilt and my red doc martens or something (I have a camo print t with yellow lettering on it from doing radical reference at RNC last year, do I need another? and I assume I could order camo print stockings/knee socks like these ). The idea of spending several hundred dollars on clothes I'd never wear save a few days a year when that could go to a great jacket/suit/boots etc... (I was thinking of getting one of those pop-up tents and at least this way I could wear the clothes outside of the field). Those bib overalls are pretty expensive and not something I'd wear in a normal situation (just an aesthetic choice, especially if hiking a ways. I wish REI or Columbia sportswear had those pants that zip into shorts that are infused in bug repellent in Camo. Does anyone make that for women? Can I just wear normal khaki colored hiking pants? Someone should do the super comfy hiking clothes in hunting patterns). I saw camo latex gloves in one of the magazines that seemed to make sense. Is head to toe needed in a stand/blind?


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

Haven't used that particular product, mainly didn't need the sunscreen. I don't think DEET in moderation would be harmful. The main things you want to keep in mind when afield in warm weather are misquitoes (West Nile Virus) and ticks ( Lyme Disease).
Not really sure how to answer on clothing issue, never hunted in a kilt. :smile: The Scots used to wear kilts into battle so I guess a person could hunt in one. The stockings look they would work but I don't know how the stilleto heels would work in the woods.    

Good Luck
Rick


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

So what about these? 

:tongue:
Impractical I know, but so cool looking - and the footprints wouldnt give me away...



RicknKansas said:


> don't know how the stilleto heels would work in the woods.
> 
> Good Luck
> Rick


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## Galaxy (Jul 7, 2005)

those would be cool if you were attending a KISS concert


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

Think I'm going to change my mind on the kilt thing. Here in Kansas there are a lot of barbed-wire fences you have to cross. I don't think a kilt is the right thing to be wearing when you straddle a fence. :mg: :mg: 
Too bad they don't have an icon for "cringeing".


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## DwayneR (Feb 23, 2004)

Hello Rick...

What part of Kansas??? Do we know each other???


Dwayne


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

Live 50 miles S.E of Wichita. Work at the GREAT AIRCRAFT DEBACLE in Wichita.


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## DwayneR (Feb 23, 2004)

Hello Rick,

Rick>> Maybe around Windfield then...I think Dexter is more than 50 miles...Henry's Chocolate factory I think closed up there a few years back.

I am a Pilot myself... Lost my medical 7 years ago due to sudden hearing loss... I now fly Ultralights, and ever once in a while, borrow a friends plane (Cher 180) to fly.

Dwayne


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

*Update*

Just an update on the situation. All 3 of us have gotten bows. I have my Darton Vapor and am practicing about 20 minutes a day. I like the bow a lot and managed to stay within my target budget for a basic but nice set up.
So I have the vapor with 50# limbs, Cobra fiber optic 4 pin sights, little rubber limb saver stabilizer, & whisper biscuit arrow rest (and a cobra green mamba release), & of course peeps. I did get gear from a pro shop called Nock & Feather in Walkill, NY and the staff has been great, even giving me free lessons and making sure that I got exactly what I wanted. Rick from Kansas Kustom Arrows who I met on AT was nice enough to even donate a dozen Vapor brand carbon arrows to my cause. 

One friend got a stunning handmade Scythian style recurve bow from Hungary and the other a basic no frills PSE NOVA package. I think maybe we can do this. 

Bruised but improving. I passed my generic hunter's ed class yesterday as required by my state and am signed up to do bowhunter's ed on the auspicious date of 9/11. I'm just hoping to pass the shooting part of it, as I'm shooting at about 10 yards now. I'm only planning to hunt this year if I feel in good conscience that I can make a clean kill without hesitation. 

Thanks for all of the advice and help everybody. I'll definitely keep everyone posted on this quest.


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## Vic303 (Aug 7, 2005)

> I'm only planning to hunt this year if I feel in good conscience that I can make a clean kill without hesitation.


Artemesia, don't let you lack of experience deter you fron 'hunting'. ONLY let it deter you from taking a BAD SHOT at game. If you never get out in the woods to find the game, you'll never get to hunt. It doesn't matter really, if you never shoot an animal--so long as you have a good time and practice safe hunting skills. Putting game meat in the freezer is a nice benefit of killing game, but hunting is more than that.

Have fun & hunt safely!
--Vicky


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## wildboar (Jul 11, 2004)

Awesome story, wish you the best this fall! Enjoy every minute afield this fall, every sunrise and sunset! I have a feeling at least one of the three of you will fall in love with hunting.

ArcheryTalk and those who frequent it are a great resource, as I'm sure you already know. I'm part owner of a pro-shop in Indiana and would also be glad to help in anyway possible. Wish you were closer, I have an indoor range you could use and some stands you could spend some time in. 

Have plenty of experience in the "loss" catagory myself. The last five years brought, the loss of both Grandfathers, Father to suicide, and Wife by way of divorce. I guess you could put a percentage of loss on my two beautiful daughters in there also, it's just not the same when you don't live in the same house let alone the same city!

I don't know if hunting will help you deal with your losses, but I can't help but know it will deeply effect all of you in some way. I'm sure the journey has already brought your freindships closer and new freinds to your lifes' path.

Again, I wish all of you the best "season" of you life this fall!

Jim Roe


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

*Good News*

Lady A

Great News....

Now to Hunt you will need a tree stand or a ground blind


and some sharp broadheads for your arrows.

Limit your shot to 20 yard or what ever your effective rage is, only take clear broadside shots or the even better quartering away shots and you may get a deer!


MAGNUS Makes new head for women & kids only 7/8" wide its sharp out of the package..........it low profile will give you great penetration


If you can work up to 40# you can kill elk bear & moose

30# will shoot through deer all day long and hogs too.

You can take part of the IBEP on Line and get a manual called TODAYS Bowhunter to study before the NBEP NYNBEFcourse

I bet you ACE IT!

Keep us posted

Tink


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks. 

Well how are those little pop up blind tents? Are they all the same? I think it works out cheaper than getting the special scent masking clothes. I dont have the land to put up a treestand. 

Deer are pretty much considered pests here, no joke several people have invited me to sit on their back porch to kill their wood rats who've destroyed their gardens/landscaping. I narrowly miss hitting a deer with my car several times a week to the point where I think my best shot would be a drive by shooting. I can't get from my house to the mini mart without seeing at least 2 deer. There are several parks where bowhunting is permitted within 2 hours.
I'm wondering which would be more effective.


But yeah, I'm only going to shoot if I know it will be a clean kill. My drawlength is above 25", so I have a man's bow tuned down to my pull strength. I did not get the parker challenger as you suggested because it only went up to 25". I picked the bow I did because it was my weird drawlength, extremely adjustable so I could grow into it (25=31" on the same cam, 30-50# on the same bow), lightweight, felt good, and was in my price range/an underpriced brand. But the shop I got my bow at has sold lots of Darton Vapors this year. 
Thanks for all of the tips in how to pick a bow. I very well may have just got that shiny pink merlin max assuming I'd blind the deer with its beauty.

At that point do the size of the broadheads matter? E. has traditional arrows with old style spears for her recurve, but those Hungarian mongol bows are amazingly fast for a recurve. If I shoot recurve eventually, I definitely want one of those or a viking longbow. We've all shot together and amazingly the Scythian bow is not embarrassingly slow in the presence of a compound. But she wants to do the traditional thing. G. who has the Nova has a long drawlength (27") so again, would that be better served with men's spears?

What broadhead style is the most effective/painless? Do the broadheads effect the way an arrow lands by weight or at 250+ fps is it even noticable?
I'm not too worried about the written test, the state hunters ed test could be passed by anyone who even slightly paid attention in class. Its more that I have no clue what the shooting requirements are.


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

*Sharp Arrows are painless*

Ever cut your leg shaving nd not feel it but saw a lot of blood?

Thats how arrows Kill

You will learn this in the NBEP

Pre sharpened one work best The Thunderhead is hard to beat- also the MAGNUS is sharp out of the Box

100 grain heads seem to fly and work best.

Yes Pop Up blind work like a Bomb

Avoid the Outhouse ...........its too small

Avoid Eastman Outdoors Product & blinds.... Cheap China crap

Dog house is OK and cheap and it works

Double Bull is top of the line but pricey
Dont worry about Speed Its the KE that drives the arrow

you will be just fine

Red Dot has a top speed of 190 FPS and she shoot thru Boars & bear all day long


You are on the right track


TINK


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks again for the broadhead advice. Ok, another question, I have a friend who just bought this tent:

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=21420620&memberId=12500226

I can borrow it (my tent is a bright yellow and blue 4 season 4 lb backpacking ultralite thing that has maybe 4' clearance). Would it do the trick as a blind, or should I go ahead and pick something up? Do the same issues with a tent play in a blind (ventilation, stability, carry weight/size, quality of poles/canvas) or is the big deal the camo and scent masking? Should I bother seam sealing a blind or would that become a scent issue? I'm a fairly avid backpacker, so the pitching etc is no problem. I actually took off work today to check out a campground that allows bowhunting in season.


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## Africanbowhunter (May 29, 2003)

*No*

HI You need to be able to shoot out of all sides You can get Ameristep Blind like a Dog House for $100 to $125

If you get stuck email Red Dot She is a Dealer [email protected]

We picked up an Ameristep Dog house Blind Brand New for $49 at a Miss bow dealer they were show samples

Best to do it right

Tink


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## artemesia (Jun 24, 2005)

Thank you. I'm moving in a few weeks, so am doing away with stuff right now, but I may very well order that for you. The price is more than reasonable. Are they easy to pitch in the dark/low light? 

But do you seam seal a blind? There was this really neat article in last month's backpacker magazine about how hunters and backpackers have a completely different mentality in terms of how they deal with being in the outdoors. It talked about how the backpackers are more of the take absolutely what you need leave no trace overly careful type A mentality down to biodegradable food wrappers and 2" water filtration systems. (I rarely backpack with more weaponry than a sharp dagger and a can of mace) whereas hunters look at themselves more as conservationists/survivalist. I'm kind of trying to take that mental leap as I pack up 22 pounds of stuff in 4 cubic feet including freezedried high protein vegan food in biodegradable water soluable wrappers, camelpak, water filtration system, clothes, campstove and coffee press, a tent, a sleeping bag, and a few books to head out to the woods. I think breaking out of the backpacker mentality will be a challenge.


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