# 2012 AAE Arizona Cup Update:



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

2012 AAE Arizona Cup Update: 
2012 AAE Arizona Cup, March 22-25, 2012, Phoenix, AZ: www.arizonacup.com
Senior USAT, Junior USAT, Cadet USAT http://usarchery.org/programs/national-teams

Deadlines:
Individual Registration and Payment: March 1, 2012
WA Member Association - National Team Preliminary Registration: February 1, 2012 
WA Member Association - Final Team Registration and Payment: March 1, 2012

Registrants/Entries Lists: http://www.arizonacup.com/2012/entries.php

Hint: March is MLB spring training season. Reserve rental cars and hotel rooms as soon as you can. But be sure to register first!


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

USAA Payouts Announced for 2012 USAT Qualifier Series
http://usarchery.org/news/2012/01/17/payouts-announced-for-usat-qualifier-series/46204?ngb_id=21
Close to 50 grand across the entire 2012 USAT series! It all begins with the 2012 AAE Arizona Cup in March. Make you plans to compete in Phoenix now!


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Why AAE AZ Cup, "The Weather"*

2012 AAE Arizona Cup March 22-25 Weather!

Weather for the AAE AZ Cup 2012 should be wonderful. March is spring training season for Major League Baseball in the Phoenix area and there is a reason ball players and fans from around the country and world flock to AZ in March… WEATHER!
The average high temperature for the March AZ Cup dates is 75 degrees F (24 degrees C) The average temperature is 62 degrees F (17 degrees F) Spring is particularly crisp and beautiful in the desert after an overnight sprinkle.

Be sure to sign up early for both the AAE AZ Cup www.arizonacup.com 
For even more fun in the sun, sign up for the AAE AZ Cup “TEST EVENT” http://arizonacup.com/2012/2012_AZCup_Test_Event_Information-Reg-form.pdf on Saturday March 17th.


----------



## Casualfoto (Mar 10, 2009)

Bob,
Am I correct that Cadets are *ineligable* for any team round? *There will not be a Cadet Team Round* and *Cadets will not be allowed to signup for the Open Team Round. *
Thanks
CP


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Casualfoto said:


> Bob,
> Am I correct that Cadets are *ineligable* for any team round? *There will not be a Cadet Team Round* and *Cadets will not be allowed to signup for the Open Team Round. *
> Thanks
> CP


 No but...

Thanks for asking, if you have a question, others likely have the same question. There is a lot of information and documents on www.arizonacup.com, it does take time to review all the different aspects of the event, shirts and hotels to team rounds and awards. We want to help archers and families to make the easy decision to take part in the AAE Arizona Cup.

Cadet compound archers are eligible for the open compound team round and open individual compound elimination rounds. (There are Cadet recurve 60 meter individual elimination rounds.)

There are no Cadet recurve 60 meter team rounds. There are no 70 meter compound team rounds or 70 meter compound individual elimination (ie 2012 para archery) 

Typically the 70 meters recurve archers fill the 16 open 70 meter recurve team round team for a run at the prize money. An open team with a Cadet recurve “zero” points for the 70 meter raking round score would likely not make the open team round cut. 
(To say that a Cadet recurve team could sign up and play in the open 70 meter recurve team rounds may be technically possible but no one should imagine that they have a realistic chance to make the cut with zero ranking points.)

Note that we at always looking at the event offerings to maximize the schedule, venue usage, and to provide for the most meaningful event. (Food for thought, Masters and Cadet shoot the same recurve distances…)


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Entries update, http://www.arizonacup.com/2012/entries.php
Ten countries are listed. Three additional countries have expressed interest.

72 archers have registered, 60 additional entries are pending member association name assignment. 
72+60=132 archers
Note that 2012 paid registrations are up 25% in comparison the number or paid registration at the same point in 2011. 
Space is limited, sign up and pay early now to be assured of a space. Note that registration closes when the field is full. Make travel arrangement after your registration is confirmed.

Take part in two STAR FITA events in one trip.
2012 AAE Arizona Cup TEST EVENT STAR FITA 2x(50/70)x72 March 17th http://www.arizonacup.com/2012/index.php?post=6

Thank you sponsors for supporting the 2012 AAE Arizona Cup archers http://www.arizonacup.com/2012/index.php?post=7


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Another surge in registrations!
As of Feb 1st, the 2012 AAE AZ Cup has received 170 registration and pre registrations from a dozen countries.
Our best advice is to sign up as soon as possible and make non refundable travel plans only after tournament registration confirmation.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

(As of 6 February 2012) 
191 preliminary member association and paid registrations from fourteen countries. 
“Space is limited to the field capacity. Registration may close before March 1.”


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Due to a record number of WA member association (16) and paid archers registrations (Total of 255 as of 20 Feb 2012), the 2012 AAE AZ Cup registration may close early before March 1st. If registration does close, a waiting list will be maintained in order received.
Register with payment and receive confirmation prior to making non refundable travel plans.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Please note that Individual Registration is ON HOLD until Preliminary Teams finalize their Final Entries. 
Please email [email protected] to be put on a waiting list pending individual cancelations or reduced Final Team entries.
All individual entries to date are listed on the Master List http://arizonacup.com/2012/PrnAlphabetical.pdf (Refresh list to see the most recent) If your name is not on this list, you are not registered.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Hampton Inn & Suites and Homewood Suites at Happy Valley are the tournament hotels for 2012 AAE AZ Cup. http://www.arizonacup.com/2012/hotel.php The tournament rate expires on March 1st or when the rooms are sold out, whatever comes first. “Stay at the tournament hotels for the full international flavor of the World Archery ranking event.” Best of all the hotels are within easy walking distance to numerous restaurants and shops. Wal-Mart is located next door.

Partial list of restaurants:
Starbucks
Applebee’s
Logan's Roadhouse
Olive Garden
Red Robin
Mellow Mushroom Pizzeria
Paradise Bakery
AH-SO Sushi & Steak
TGI Friday's
Bajio Mexican Grill 
P.F. Chang's China Bistro
L&L Hawaiian Barbecue 
Sauce
Panda Express
Jersey Mikes
Carls Jr
The Greek Pita
Chipotle Mexican Grill‎
Subway and many more


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

So we have a waiting list of over 50. Should the entry fee be $250 to better even out supply vs. demand? The event would be that much better with more funding! Longer, more prize $$$, etc. Like the Vegas Shoot entry fees and event?


----------



## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

NO Bob. Rising entry fees are SO negative on the sport. People can go enter $25 local indoor, field and 3D tournaments all over this country. AZ cup is becoming a larger event with the tourny being a world ranking event, and the rest of the schedule has been pushed up this year, making it nessecary to start the season earlier. Besides, people enter Vegas with the intent of getting that entry fee back.....Your event isn't considered a money shoot. It will undoubtedly hurt the tourny. Other tournys will find it nessecary to follow suit, which will end up hurting the org. Fees have already increased to the point that attending USAT events takes several thousand dollars a year between gas, flights, entry fees and everything else. The last thing we need is more costs.

The grounds need to grow, like any other business that grows, but you are limited in your ability to grow due to the % stays in your pocket. Work in that area needs done first.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

So I was thinking that if the AZ Cup was more expensive, archers would be more apt to take part in the events that have small registrations and lower entry fees. That way the smaller events would receive more archers and have a better chance of making money and improving their events year after year. A supply and demand type thing. The key would be to offer many event opportunities and allow archers to take part in as many or as few as they like. 

Another option is to conduct a 72 arrow ranking round in the AM and a separate 72 arrow ranking round in the PM. Then whomever makes the top 64 make it to the individual elimination round. The rest have a chance at team rounds and fans in the stands.


----------



## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

The only thing that's going to happen if you raise rates, is everyone else will follow for USAT.

2 seperate lines might work for this year, but would make things dificult next when you change back to FITA's. No idea how many JR and below you have, but they could theoretically be put on a seperate line I guess.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Huntmaster said:


> The only thing that's going to happen if you raise rates, is everyone else will follow for USAT.
> 
> 2 separate lines might work for this year, but would make things dificult next when you change back to FITA's. No idea how many JR and below you have, but they could theoretically be put on a seperate line I guess.


Typically its recurve men and compound women at one shooting time and compound men and recurve women at another time. The plan would result is saying bye-bye to the four distance FITA or add a day which would increase the entry fee. Going to 72 arrow ranking rounds helps keep the cost down but results in some archers making a trip to shoot only 72 scoring arrows. By raising the cost and keeping the numbers down, archers have a better chance of playing in the elimination rounds. It’s a complex issue with lots of moving parts. Quality vs. cost vs. opportunity. Many subjective factors. 

The format of NTC and EJN has many moving parts also. 

The key is to identify the goal. USAT?, World Ranking?, accessibility?, developmental?, socialization?…the list of considerations is a long one.


----------



## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> Typically its recurve men and compound women at one shooting time and compound men and recurve women at another time. The plan would result is saying bye-bye to the four distance FITA or add a day which would increase the entry fee. Going to 72 arrow ranking rounds helps keep the cost down but results in some archers making a trip to shoot only 72 scoring arrows. By raising the cost and keeping the numbers down, archers have a better chance of playing in the elimination rounds. It’s a complex issue with lots of moving parts. Quality vs. cost vs. opportunity. Many subjective factors.
> 
> The format of NTC and EJN has many moving parts also.
> 
> The key is to identify the goal. USAT?, World Ranking?, accessibility?, developmental?, socialization?…the list of considerations is a long one.


There are several things to be considered, but when people were talking arrows per dollar, they weren't talking about shoving more arrows into a smaller window of time. No one should be standing on a line from dawn to dusk, then have to be back at 6 the next morning. It's asking too much even from the elite. Nothing makes archers dread going to tournaments more than that (organizers aren't exactly thrilled by it either). 

Maybe there needs to be a value aspect involved.....running into the possiblity of shooting only 72 arrows and being done. If you desire the experience, it will be worth it to those that decide to run that risk.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Lots to consider, no one clear answer.

Target archery differs greatly. 3D and Field different from fixed distance flat range and indoor shooting. The Vegas Shoot challenges archers to shoot 90 great indoor arrows. Vegas had three rooms full of archers. AZ Cup is all about outdoor match play leading to gold medal matches. AZ Cup maxed out for the third year in a row and national team participation continues to grow. 

I think the time where tourneys can be all things to all people is fading fast. There is a lot of overlap between NFAA and USAA events and between USAT events. But as the sport continues to grow at a rapid pace, there will be more chances for diversity as archers choose to specialize or find themselves enjoying one format over another.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Waiting list more information:

AAE celebrates its sixth year as the title sponsor of the Arizona Cup. AAE sponsorship provides awards and a prize money in association with USA Archery. AAE provides vendor and awards presentation areas and other tournament amenities. Three registrations are provided to AAE as a part of title sponsorship. Designated archers are at the title sponsor's discretion and may change at any time.

As a reminder, waiting listees may be offered a position when an archer “shooting the same distance” withdraws. Wheelchair archers remaining on the shooting line during both AB/CD lines of shooting actually require two spaces to become open at the correct distance, before they could be offered a position. Waiting list is maintained as a courtesy in lieu of just closing registration altogther and is at the discretion of the tournament management.

The Arizona Cup has received overwhelming interest. 2012 Tournament information and registration was posted last November in 2011 to help archers make plans for the 2012 outdoor season. 

Please contact [email protected] with comments or concerns rather than guess. http://www.arizonacup.com/2012/index.php?post=14


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Field set up began last weekend. Test event Saturday 17 March. Then more set up. 
We look forward to greeting all on Thursday at range for check in, national team leaders meeting and official practice.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Preliminary, draft, may change, qualification round target assignments are posted via the www.arizonacup.com "Entries" tab. 
Results are scheduled to begin to roll in around mid morning on FRIDAY 23 March MST/PDST http://www.ianseo.net/Details.php?toId=252 Thanks to the Easton Sports Development Foundation and USA Archery.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Outstanding warm weather for official practice day,
Target assignments, participant list and participant list by country have been updated on www.arizonacup.com


----------



## LongTime (Feb 17, 2005)

I don't understand. I remember back in the 60 and 70's when we had hundred and hundreds of shooters and nobody was turned away. I sure miss Clayton Shenk and George Hellwig. I will bet they are spinning in their graves at the state of affairs of our org.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

If everything goes well, we will have some TV coverage of the Arizona Cup. Please tune in to the live stream at 9pm Arizona Time. 

http://www.azfamily.com/live-stream/

-Steve


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Congrats to Sean McLaughlin who just missed Jr USAT last year. It appears he followed up his (as of now) top finish in the Junior Recurve national indoor event with a strong win in the AZ cup in the same division. His Twin brother Daniel decided to move to Senior division this year


----------



## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Any results available for the open teams? The link for open teams on ianseo.net just leads to official teams.
Thanks!


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

archerymom2 said:


> Any results available for the open teams? The link for open teams on ianseo.net just leads to official teams.
> Thanks!


No unofficial open team results postings until several days later as the results are not automated.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

LongTime said:


> I don't understand. I remember back in the 60 and 70's when we had hundred and hundreds of shooters and nobody was turned away. I sure miss Clayton Shenk and George Hellwig. I will bet they are spinning in their graves at the state of affairs of our org.


And double FITA's, sometimes in a single day, right?

Americans are getting soft. That's for sure.

John


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Best AZ Cup ever.


----------



## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Congradulations to Brady, Miranda, Reo and Jamie for their Gold medal preformances in the first outdoor tournment of the year!


----------



## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

Serious Fun said:


> Best AZ Cup ever.


While it was a great shoot no it was not the best ever. In reading your comments I am sorry t
Inform you you do not have a clue as to what is actually going on in archery. One small part of archery maybe but not as a whole you are clueless about what is actually going on in target archery. Go ahead raise the price you will loose the average shooter that are the ones that pay the bills. Go have your quality shoot have the top show up you just lost 70% of your entry fees your product you are selling is not going to pay its way. Think you are going to get a audience to come pay to watch. I sure didn't see them and it is free now. Your thinking is about as sound as the mess at Yankton last year. How was attendance there for this sport that is growing so much attendance sure is down. For this top level shoot where we're the vendors selling there wares. You had 3 at other national shoots I'm used to seeing 30 or more.


----------



## Spots_N_Dots (Nov 10, 2005)

kjwhfsd said:


> While it was a great shoot no it was not the best ever. In reading your comments I am sorry t
> Inform you you do not have a clue as to what is actually going on in archery. One small part of archery maybe but not as a whole you are clueless about what is actually going on in target archery. Go ahead raise the price you will loose the average shooter that are the ones that pay the bills. Go have your quality shoot have the top show up you just lost 70% of your entry fees your product you are selling is not going to pay its way. Think you are going to get a audience to come pay to watch. I sure didn't see them and it is free now. Your thinking is about as sound as the mess at Yankton last year. How was attendance there for this sport that is growing so much attendance sure is down. For this top level shoot where we're the vendors selling there wares. You had 3 at other national shoots I'm used to seeing 30 or more.


Did someone pee in your Wheaties today, or is that just the beer talking? 

Maybe that target thing isn't so easy afterall.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Interspersed with ***

-Steve



kjwhfsd said:


> While it was a great shoot no it was not the best ever. In reading your comments I am sorry t
> Inform you you do not have a clue as to what is actually going on in archery. One small part of archery maybe but not as a whole you are clueless about what is actually going on in target archery.


*** If you don't mind adding to this - what exactly is going on in target archery then?



> Go ahead raise the price you will loose the average shooter that are the ones that pay the bills. Go have your quality shoot have the top show up you just lost 70% of your entry fees your product you are selling is not going to pay its way.


***I think the discussion with regards to fees was a reflexive sarcasm. I highly doubt that the Arizona Cup committee would want to up the fees. 



> Think you are going to get a audience to come pay to watch. I sure didn't see them and it is free now.


***I was there Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. The bleachers were relatively full. Not disputing your view, but where was it that you didn't see the audience?



> Your thinking is about as sound as the mess at Yankton last year.


***Please again, detail where the thinking isn't sound. Putting on tournaments isn't easy. The little bit of what I was involved it was rather involved. I see what it takes, and it's not fun.



> How was attendance there for this sport that is growing so much attendance sure is down.


***Again, the bleachers were full for every time I was there. When was it empty?



> For this top level shoot where we're the vendors selling there wares. You had 3 at other national shoots I'm used to seeing 30 or more.


***Hm. To list (off the top of my head) the vendors at 2012 Vegas, I recall:
- Hoyt
- PSE
- Mathews
- Lancaster
- Carter
- Zenith
- Stan
- Easton
- Carbon Express
- Flexor
- USCA (that, I don't really count as a vendor, but they did have a booth)
- USA Archery (same thing, that's not really a vendor booth)
- NFAA (gee, same thing)
- TRU-Ball/Axcel
- Bohning
- A women's wear product line that I forget
- SureLoc
- A purse company
- Feather Vision
- Specialty Archery
- Another sight company that I forget but was in between Feather Vision, Hoyt, and Carter
- BCY
- Sims
- Delta
- Morrell
- First Dakota National Bank
- Blazin Creations
- Gordon Glass
- Angel
- Shibuya
- Bernie
That's 31 off the top of my head. I cannot recall any USA Archery or World Ranking event that had 31 vendors in recent history. (I could be wrong)


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Any info about weather? Scores don't seem to be at top...


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Vittorio said:


> Any info about weather? Scores don't seem to be at top...


All temps in Farenheit. 

Friday - High in the mid 80's. Mild wind. Clear skies. 

Saturday - High in the mid to high 80's. Same wind. Clear. 

Sunday - High in the high 80's. Hazy heading into the afternoon. Winds slightly higher than the other two days.


----------



## gpb (Feb 14, 2009)

anybody seen any links to photo's of the shoot?


----------



## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

Vittorio said:


> Any info about weather? Scores don't seem to be at top...


I was out watching Friday morning with my family and noticed a few archers waiting for the wind or letting down because of the flags. I would guess that the wind quieted in the afternoon -- Jake Kaminski shot a 342, which I would think is near the top.


----------



## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

Beastmaster said:


> Interspersed with ***
> 
> -Steve
> 
> ...


It's simple if you have a shoot with only the top shooter you won't get vendors no sense in coming if you won't sell any thing. 

Target archery being hard ok been doing it a long time.


----------



## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Vittorio said:


> Any info about weather? Scores don't seem to be at top...


The wind in AZ was a little tricky. It wasn't that strong, but it was switchie. 9/8 right, then 9/8 left. Tail winds, then head winds. For some reason, that field gets some breezes that are hard to keep up with just enough to keep you guessing on the 10 ring.


----------



## red_elan10 (Apr 23, 2008)

Photos will be posted tonight at http://www.usarchery.org - slow internet connections at both hotel and field, and flying all day today. Lots of good photos to come tonight!


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Huntmaster said:


> The wind in AZ was a little tricky. It wasn't that strong, but it was switchie. 9/8 right, then 9/8 left. Tail winds, then head winds. For some reason, that field gets some breezes that are hard to keep up with just enough to keep you guessing on the 10 ring.


In my expereince, light variable winds are some of the most difficult to score well in. They just frustrate you all day long. Give me a good, steady 10 mph crosswind anyday.

John


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Leek, Ellison, Van Natta, Wilde Win 2012 AAE Arizona Cup
http://usarchery.org/news/2012/03/25/leek-ellison-van-natta-wilde-win-az-cup/47382?ngb_id=21

Pivotal 2012 Season Kicks off in AZ
http://usarchery.org/news/2012/03/24/pivotal-2012-season-kicks-off-in-arizona/47367?ngb_id=21


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Photos and Media links, including TV clips added to www.arizonacup.com


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Serious Fun said:


> Photos and Media links, including TV clips added to www.arizonacup.com


Another article published today about the Arizona Cup.
http://www.metro.co.uk/olympics/894...-impressive-weekend-for-gb-paralympic-archers

-Steve


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

More of the 2012 AAE Arizona Cup experience: Tournament program link with information and sponsor advertisements http://arizonacup.com/2012/2012-Program.pdf


----------

