# Prototype "Penobscot-type" bow



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Very cool! :thumbs_up

Lookin' forward to the test results.

Ray :shade:


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## HighFive22 (Jan 7, 2009)

That is crazy looking! Very cool though!


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Keep in mind; this bow is a prototype and that improvements/changes may be made in future designs following further testing. Additionally, he is preparing a form to build a Penobscot-type longbow using the "Wind Warrior Hybrid Extreme High Performance Longbow."










Here is a synopsis of the bow design, his preliminary field testing of the "Still Hunter-Penobscot," and his personal evaluation of how the bow shoots.

_"You know, every once in a while a plan just has to come together." _- Tony Semenuk

Unlike the standard Penobscot that has the small "pony bow" separately attached to the main bow by bolt, screwing, or binding, Tony has fully laminated the pony bow to the main bow so that the small bow is an integral part of the bow; it's 1 piece. _"The bow is all one piece; it does not disassembled or come apart."_

Because the small bow on the _original _Penobscot design is a technically a separate bow and therefore has more bulk and strength by itself, the small bow on this design are technically just conjoined limbs that are laminated to the main bow's riser. Tony calculated there was a limb stress factor on the smaller limbs to consider near the fade out of the riser, so he installed stainless anchor screws that you see on the pony bow (small bow). Preliminary results indicate the screws did the job.

The _main_ bow has a 50# draw-weight, but when the pony limbs were strung, the bow obtained an 8# increase, and reached a 64# draw-weight when small strings were twisted. Tony has determined that overall the bow has an adjustable power range of almost 20 pounds.

Tony said he didn't know quite what to expect when he went to shoot it but was pleasantly surprised to discover that the bow (design) was the nicest bow he has ever shot. He said he initially shot just a few arrows, but said that the feel of the bow was _"absolutely amazing." _ The bow is completely and totally shock free, did not stack, and _"throws the arrows with great authority."_ He has not yet measured the Kinetic Energy of the arrows, but could tell that the arrows were hitting with impressive force.

On the next test, Tony shot the bow for at least 2 hours. He said that although the bow needs more thorough testing, _"the bow never skipped a beat."_

On the initial test, using B50 Dacron Flemish strings, the arrows were chronoed at 195 fps. On later testing, still using the B50 Dacron Flemish strings, shooting 479 grain arrows, he obtained 198 to 212 fps. He is confident that if he uses Fast-Flight, which the bow is built for, the bow will reach 220 fps, and that if he drops in some carbon in the limbs, _"who knows what could happen."_ He believes that the "Wind Warrior" will do even better.

Tony said that he didn't know if he was just having a good day or the bow is that forgiving; it was extremely accurate shooting; _"The arrows were piling up with the shafts almost touching."_

The most impressive aspect he discovered with the prototype was the capability and complete control you have over the range of (limb) tiller adjustment, and how being able to do so lends to better performance and accuracy. He found the bow to be extremely accurate when tuned to the way you shoot and that he never realized just how important it is to have complete control over that factor until he shot this bow.

_"The bow definitely has some potential and the versatility is extremely attractive."_


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

That's totally awesome!


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

Now that is awesome


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Very interesting.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

I'm curious as to why there are so many bolts holding down the 'pony bow' if it's been expoxied to the main bow? I can understand a total of 2 to 4 for insurance but 10...I'm curious as to why?

Ray :shade:


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> I'm curious as to why there are so many bolts holding down the 'pony bow'


I'm not sure. I can only assume that he wanted to apply and disperse the pressure within a particular area without displacing too much limb material and too close together.

Being this bow is a _prototype _ I also assume that he wanted to do some early preliminary trial runs to determine if the design was worthy of pursuing, and that it is possible he might change the way he reinforces the areas where he was suspicious of stress. I'll find out next week. 

Nevertheless, he has tentatively confirmed that some of the performance features that builders of the more-primitive Penobscot version have claimed are holding true, and better than he expected. He is also quite impressed to find out that the design affords a tunability and performance that he hadn't anticipated.

Reviewing the results and tuning aspects that he has preliminarily determined; the ability to adjust each limb tiller and tweak the draw-weight to the shaft spine is very appealing, but the range of adjustable draw-weights....on a stickbow..... that is possible stands out the most. 

If the 20# range of draw-weights the bow can be set at holds true on any bow of any main draw-weight, _or just half that,_ that would mean that a new shooter could purchase this design of which the main bow has a 35# draw-weight without the pony bow braced, and be able to gradually and incrementally increase the bow's draw-weight to -/+ 45# to 55# by simply twisting the pony bow's short strings or using shorter strings?? :mg:

I have had several conversations with Tony as he builds my recurve and the impression I have of him is; if the Penobscot design can be perfected and be durable, he can get it done. Also, he obviously doesn't procrastinate. It's only been about 1 week and my bow has been out of the oven and is ready for the limbs and finish. He said about 3-weeks and is holding true to his estimate; though I gave him the ok to take his time.


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## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

Yup sure is interesting…makes one wonder how long the original engineer stared at his. Kinda proves there were a few rocket scientists back in the stone age…plenty enough proof that there are cave men still around in the space age.

As for overkill on the attachment, personally, I think I’d be inclined to use a smallish overlay(s), locator pins (perhaps), and limb bolts…might be able to up the anti-on adjustable draw weights, even more. The lefty thing, though…he’ll never be able to fix that.  Rick.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> ...plenty enough proof that there are cave men still around in the space age


 :teeth:

Probably what the hardcore, dedicated "wheelers" think about a stickbow and wood arrows; and in all probability what some or many hardcore "traditionalists" think about the reintroduction of the original static limb design, or a modified use of the static limb design.

_"The more things change, the more they remain the same." _


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## petew (Nov 14, 2004)

I have been waiting for a Modern Penobscott to show up since I reviewed a Penobscott a few years ago.
The basic design of a penobscott does allow a lot of latitude in tuning. Other than ILF , I don't know of any other design where the owner can adjust tiller, and draw weight .
The screws take away from the looks, but I have no doubt he will find a way to fix that.
I like the Prototype.:thumbs_up
Pete


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> The screws take away from the looks, but I have no doubt he will find a way to fix that.


The impression I got was that he was anxious to trial the bow and the screw system was/is a preliminary fix.

Pete: I am aware that you field-tested a near-primitive version of the Penobscot and gave Tony the link to your test and review.

PS: I thought my new bow purchasing days were over, and my wife danced and sang happy songs. But a need surfaced for a shorter bow than I presently own so Tony is building me a bow. Now, I am quite sure that once he has the Penobscot design down pat, I will own one. I'll budget for the Penobscot bow and Valium for my wife.


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## petew (Nov 14, 2004)

The Penobscott always brings in people when I take it to shoots. It was quite interesting when I had the Penobscott and a lot of very high end bows for test shooting at the ATBA Jamboree one year. 
There was a line up of shooters wanting to shoot the Penobscott, and a constant dialogue of questions on where to get one? how much? etc.People were all over the simple hickory Penobscott. The feedback I received was overwhelmingly positive.
This was when the ACS CX was the rage, and used ACS bows were selling for a lot more than a new one, yet the Penobscott stole the show.Often the ACS, and other top shelf bows were not being shot, while the Penobscott had a line up to try it.

This modern version would realy create a stirr, and having an original and a Modern at the same time to test shoot would be a show stopper..

Pete


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

WW, did he mention how he strings the bow, or if he has any issues stringing it?


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> WW, did he mention how he strings the bow, or if he has any issues stringing it?


We didn't discuss the string; but unless I have it wrong, the Penobscot, at least the one he has built, is a 3 string system; The main string and 2 short strings. I doubt bracing the bow is any big deal or he probably would have said so.

Though of a different design, I know that Pete Ward used a couple of homegrown methods to brace the one he tested and, if I recall correctly, he said it was not complicated at all.

Looking at the prototype, I don't envision any problem bracing the limbs,


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

The couple selfbow Penobscots I built always seemed like a pain to brace with the push-pull (as I don't have a stringer) and was just wondering about others' experiences.

I want to build one now...


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

You don't have a stringer; or you don't have a stringer for the Penobscot?

Looking at the pony limbs on the prototype, I don't envision any real difficulty in collapsing the pony limb just enough to slip the string off the tip.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I don't have _any_ stringer. I've always strung the bows with the back bow cables already in place, which might be why I had issues- they would get in the way using push-pull. Maybe I should have just borrowed a stringer?

Is the pony bow heavy in draw weight?


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

That is a unique spin-off of the ancient Penobscott bow. I made a bow of this type one time. It was a dandy! You could actually increase the draw weight by twisting the strings up on the short front bow. Good luck with your design! scout4<><


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

_Is the pony bow heavy in draw weight?_

With the prototype, _if I understood correctly,_ the primary bow he used is a 50# draw-weight before utilizing the "pony." Again, _if I am understanding correctly,_ the _primary_ bow can be of any draw-weight.

I have to be careful; I do not want to provide incorrect information and don't want to cross any boundary that is strictly the prerogative of Tony.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

I love experiments. I'm looking forward to the test results. I hope he publishes the Draw Force Curves and and the efficiency of bow.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

kegan said:


> I don't have _any_ stringer. I've always strung the bows with the back bow cables already in place, which might be why I had issues- they would get in the way using push-pull. Maybe I should have just borrowed a stringer?
> 
> Is the pony bow heavy in draw weight?


Send me your height and arm length and I'll send you a couple of stringers.... tell me the longest and the shortest bows you shoot and how far from the end the nocks are...

Aloha... :beer: Ps... give me a week to start as I'm off Island next week.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Rattus- that's extremely kind of you! I just realized why I was having issues stringing though. Turns out it helps if I draw pictures:lol: 

The bows I made had one long pin nock for both the main bow string and the back bow. The back/pony bow's cables were set _under_ the main bow's stirng. Which means unstrung the main bow's string had to slide OVER the back bow's cables. If I used a double nock set, and attachedthe pony cables above the main bow's string, more toward the tip, I should be able to slide the string loop up the limb and into it's nock jsut like a normal bow.

WW, I don't want to get you into any trouble by pestering you further. Do you think he'd mind if I built one of my own though?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Logical conclusion time:

When will it be available in ILF form?:shade:


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> WW, I don't want to get you into any trouble by pestering you further. Do you think he'd mind if I built one of my own though?


Pestering? I didn't know you were. As for building your own; I don't believe there is presently a patent on the bow. However, you need to discuss that with Tony. Also, there are some others who are building and selling the Penobscot in the original primitive, or near-primitive, design. 

You do bring up a good point though on the reintroduction and upgrading of a design that was made years prior. Fred Bear reintroduced and patented the working recurve limb design in 1953 as his invention.... _about 1000 years after the first recurve limb was developed and used_. :wink:


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## dbowers (Mar 24, 2004)

Pretty cool never saw a modern material penobscot before.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, I thought I was pestering. Glad you weren't bothered

Do you happen to have an email address so I could ask him if he minds?


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> Do you happen to have an email address so I could ask him if he minds?


Contact Info



> Well, I thought I was pestering. Glad you weren't bothered


Kegan; in my 71 years I have been exposed to being pestered and bothered by experts, some who intended to pester and bother my butt to death. Ya couldn't come close.  Such stuff slides off me like rain off a duck's back.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Thanks for the contact information, and I'm glad I wasn't a bother. I always think I get a little carried away with questions:lol:


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> I always think I get a little carried away with questions


I didn't realize there was a limit.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, I'd rather not get pushy with questions regardless

I emailed Tony and he's alright with my building one of my own. I need to finish addressing a few need-to-do's before I can give it a go but I'll keep everyone posted.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Yes, I would be VERY interested in seeing a F/D curve for this bow.


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