# Bareshaft moves/tuning



## tripleb2431

I always use my yokes when BS tuning so haven't tried doing it with rest movements but they should react the same as when paper tuning. So when the BS is off to the left of FP wether it's nock is pointing to the right or not we know that in flight the nock must have been off to the right to make the BS fly left of the fp. So you fix nock right by moving rest left. And fix nock left or BS right of FP by moving rest right. 

aim small miss small.


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## nuts&bolts

lunghit said:


> Just want to get opinions on these moves. I know there are lots of factors that can contribute to arrow flight but for the most part how does this look? I always yoke tune for horizontal nock left/right but vertical flight or non yoked bows what do you think.
> 
> 
> 1. Bareshaft hits left of fletched but at the same angle.
> Rest right
> 2. Bareshaft hits right of fletched but at the same angle.
> Rest left
> 3. Bareshat hits left of fletched but nock right.
> Rest Right
> 4. Bareshaft hits right of fletched but nock left.
> Rest Left
> 
> 5. Bareshaft hits above fletched but at the same angle.
> Raise loop/lower rest
> 6. Bareshaft hits below fletched but at the same angle.
> Lower loop/raise rest
> 7. Bareshaft hits above fletched nock low.
> Raise loop/lower rest
> 8. Bareshaft hits below fletched nock high.
> Raise loop/lower rest


You have it backwards. Item 1. Bareshaft misses LEFT of the fletched arrows.

Bareshaft point of impact is to the LEFT of the fletched arrow. So, the powerstroke of your bowstring is pushing the bareshaft arrow LEFT of your stabilizer. The fletched arrow has STEERING correction, so the vanes are FORCING the fletched arrow to the RIGHT, the fletched arrow is steering corrected to fly to the RIGHT. The purpose of bareshaft tuning, is to get your vanes to do ZERO work. So, you STEER the fletched arrow to fly with the bareshaft. So, bareshaft is hitting LEFT of the bullseye. You MOVE the arrow rest to the LEFT, to STEER the fletched arrow in the same direction your bowstring POWERSTROKE is pushing the bareshaft. THIS way, you get ZERO work from the vanes, and when you get ZERO stress on the vanes...FLETCHED arrows group TIGHTER. BUT BUT BUT, the fletched arrows and bareshafts are now grouping TIGHT, but missing LEFT of the bullseye. Adjust sight windage.


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## nuts&bolts

lunghit said:


> Just want to get opinions on these moves. I know there are lots of factors that can contribute to arrow flight but for the most part how does this look? I always yoke tune for horizontal nock left/right but vertical flight or non yoked bows what do you think.
> 
> 
> 1. Bareshaft hits left of fletched but at the same angle.
> Rest right
> 2. Bareshaft hits right of fletched but at the same angle.
> Rest left
> 3. Bareshat hits left of fletched but nock right.
> Rest Right
> 4. Bareshaft hits right of fletched but nock left.
> Rest Left
> 
> 5. Bareshaft hits above fletched but at the same angle.
> Raise loop/lower rest
> 6. Bareshaft hits below fletched but at the same angle.
> Lower loop/raise rest
> 7. Bareshaft hits above fletched nock low.
> Raise loop/lower rest
> 8. Bareshaft hits below fletched nock high.
> Raise loop/lower rest


You have it backwards. Item 2. Bareshaft misses RIGHT of the fletched arrows.

Bareshaft point of impact is to the RIGHT of the fletched arrow. So, the powerstroke of your bowstring is pushing the bareshaft arrow RIGHT of your stabilizer. The fletched arrow has STEERING correction, so the vanes are FORCING the fletched arrow to the LEFT, the fletched arrow is steering corrected to fly to the LEFT. The purpose of bareshaft tuning, is to get your vanes to do ZERO work. So, you STEER the fletched arrow to fly with the bareshaft. So, bareshaft is hitting RIGHT of the bullseye. You MOVE the arrow rest to the RIGHT, to STEER the fletched arrow in the same direction your bowstring POWERSTROKE is pushing the bareshaft. THIS way, you get ZERO work from the vanes, and when you get ZERO stress on the vanes...FLETCHED arrows group TIGHTER. BUT BUT BUT, the fletched arrows and bareshafts are now grouping TIGHT, but missing RIGHT of the bullseye. Adjust sight windage.


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## nuts&bolts

You have it backwards. Item 3. Bareshaft misses LEFT of the fletched arrows...and the bareshaft is sticking in the target NOCK RIGHT.

Work on your bow hand grip technique. Increase the rotation of the bow hand knuckles, to at LEAST 45 degrees. RElax the bow hand thumb muscle. Use a Torque Indicator, cuz excess pressure in the bow hand thumb muscle is TORQUING the entire riser out of alignment.

Bareshaft point of impact is to the LEFT of the fletched arrow. So, the powerstroke of your bowstring is pushing the bareshaft arrow LEFT of your stabilizer. The fletched arrow has STEERING correction, so the vanes are FORCING the fletched arrow to the RIGHT, the fletched arrow is steering corrected to fly to the RIGHT. The purpose of bareshaft tuning, is to get your vanes to do ZERO work. So, you STEER the fletched arrow to fly with the bareshaft. So, bareshaft is hitting LEFT of the bullseye. You MOVE the arrow rest to the LEFT, to STEER the fletched arrow in the same direction your bowstring POWERSTROKE is pushing the bareshaft. THIS way, you get ZERO work from the vanes, and when you get ZERO stress on the vanes...FLETCHED arrows group TIGHTER. BUT BUT BUT, the fletched arrows and bareshafts are now grouping TIGHT, but missing LEFT of the bullseye. Adjust sight windage.









What the heck is a TORQUE indicator? It shows you when you are messing up your shot, with TOO much tension in the bow hand, especially the thumb muscle. 1/4-inch threaded rod. Block of wood. Drill a 1/4-inch hole. DUH. Two fender washers. Attach the threaded rod to your sight. Use two nuts. Nylok nuts work nice. Take a 1/16th inch drill bit and drill through the top of the block of wood and through the threaded rod. Run a paper clip through the tiny hole. BEND into a U shape. So, come to full draw and see if the tip of the paper clip lines up with your sight pin. If not, adjust the threaded rod to move the block of wood left or right, until the paper clip is directly behind your up pin, so the paper clip is directly under your sight pin. Now, rotate the block of wood, so the TIP of the paper clip lines up under your sight pin, WHEN AT FULL DRAW. So, now fire ONE arrow into your target thirty separate times. IF you have changing pressure in your bow hand thumb muscle, you will SEE the paper clip come OUT of alignment with your sight pin. It's YOU...and not always the bow.


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## nuts&bolts

BARESHAFT hits above or below the fletched arrow. 

Leave the arrow rest alone. Leave your d-loop alone...if you are tuning at 20 yards. Fix your cam unsync with your cables. WHAT? HUH? Take my cams OUT of sync, ON PURPOSE? ABSOLUTELY. Might only need ONE cable half a twist out of sync. BUT, BUT, BUT...you heard NEVER EVER mess with a cable with only half a twist. You only believe in FULL twists. FINE. Take ONE cable a FULL twist, out of sync. Make ONE cable either a full twist longer or a full twist shorter. PICK one cable and only work with that one cable. LEAVE the other cable completely alone. I'm talking a no yoke cable, binary cam style bow.

So, how do you test this? RESULTS based tuning. 20 yards. SHOULDER high target. SHOULDER high level strip of masking tape. SIGHT in so your FLETCHED arrow nails the top edge of the tape. FIRE a bareshaft. Say you get THIS result. Remember. LEAVE the arrow rest alone. LEAVE the d-loop alone. We are only going to mess with twists (add or remove) for ONE CABLE.



Will not take much adjustment on your cable...ONE of your cables. Half twist if you are game, and make your own strings and cables. FULL twist if you are worried about serving separation on your pretty custom cables.



Carry on.


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## nuts&bolts

BUT, when do you move your arrow rest? ONLY when long range tuning, like group tuning at 60 yards. 

Let's say you did your paper tuning, or your walkback tuning, or your french tuning or you modified french tuning...whatever tuning at 20 yards and less. So, let's say your arrow rest ends up HERE. You tweaked horizontal and vertical. You have your arrow rest set so the arrow runs through the middle of the berger holes. Maybe you heard that the bottom of your arrow needs to run through the center of the berger hole. Whatever. You have your bow tuned at 20yards and less, with your favorite methods.



Now, take some scotch tape and tape a sheet of paper to the arrow rest.



SLICE the paper into two sections, to match the arrow rest...the part that moves sideways.



Now, goto 60 yards and shoot lots and lots of groups. TWEAK the arrow rest up and down in SUPER tiny amounts to make your groups TIGHTER. TWEAK the arrow rest left and right, in super tiny amounts, to make your 60 yard groups TIGHTER. BUT BUT BUT, won't I mess up my 20 yard tuning? No. You are IMPROVING your 20 yard groups, by group tuning at 60 yards. TINY adjustments, like the width of a single pen line.
When you are finished GROUP tuning at 60 yards, you might end up like this.


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## dkkarr

Tagged


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## Delta7

hmm... learning new stuffs everyday


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## Shootin_a_hoyt

^


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## fern2400

nice idea


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## someter82

Tagged


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## idaboy2017

Hi nuts and bolts. 
What about cam and a half with yoke.....for bareshaft hitting low but at same angle?


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## Hana Pa'a

Picture is rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise. So bareshaft impact is one arrow diameter high and about 3/4" to the right. Nock of bareshaft is 2 1/8 in higher than nock of fletched arrow. I shot this at 20y. What adjustments are needed? These are 2312's shot out of an OK ABS 38. Top cam hits about 1/32 before bottom, (1/2 twist in either end of cables puts cams further out of time), there is no cam lean and tiller is even.


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## nuts&bolts

idaboy2017 

Hi nuts and bolts. 
What about cam and a half with yoke.....for bareshaft hitting low but at same angle?

So, the cam and a half system, has a buss cable (with yoke legs), has a control cable, and a bowstring. So, let's say you bareshaft at 20 yards, and also fire fletched arrows and get this result.










Pick one of your cables. If you like, work with only the control cable. Just a half twist goes a long way to fix things. YOUR job, is to figure out if you need to remove a half twist, or add a half twist. ONE direction makes things better. Other direction, will make things worse. Of course, you need a bow press. So, what about the buss cable? Buss cable works in the opposite direction of the control cable, cuz the buss cable wraps around the bottom axle in the opposite direction of the control cable.










So, if adding half a twists on the control cable makes things better, then, removing half a twist from the buss cable will do the same thing. SO, if removing a half twist on the control cable makes things better, then, adding a half twist to the buss cable, will have the same effect.










IN this photo, the control cable wraps around the bottom axle in the counter-clockwise direction. So, in THIS photo, that means the buss cable wraps around the cam peg in the clockwise direction.


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## nuts&bolts

idaboy2017 

Hi nuts and bolts. 
What about cam and a half with yoke.....for bareshaft hitting low but at same angle?

So, the cam and a half system, has a buss cable (with yoke legs), has a control cable, and a bowstring. So, let's say you bareshaft at 20 yards, and also fire fletched arrows and get this result.










Pick one of your cables. If you like, work with only the control cable. Just a half twist goes a long way to fix things. YOUR job, is to figure out if you need to remove a half twist, or add a half twist. ONE direction makes things better. Other direction, will make things worse. Of course, you need a bow press. So, what about the buss cable? Buss cable works in the opposite direction of the control cable, cuz the buss cable wraps around the bottom axle in the opposite direction of the control cable.










So, if adding half a twists on the control cable makes things better, then, removing half a twist from the buss cable will do the same thing. SO, if removing a half twist on the control cable makes things better, then, adding a half twist to the buss cable, will have the same effect.










IN this photo, the control cable wraps around the bottom axle in the counter-clockwise direction. So, in THIS photo, that means the buss cable wraps around the cam peg in the clockwise direction.


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## nuts&bolts

Sorry for double post. Cannot delete.


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## cloquet

Thank you Nuts and Bolts. Just what I was looking for.


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## wbates

tag


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## tirving

How about for the Binary Overdrive system, with yoke on both cables?


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## idaboy2017

nuts&bolts said:


> idaboy2017
> 
> Hi nuts and bolts.
> What about cam and a half with yoke.....for bareshaft hitting low but at same angle?
> 
> So, the cam and a half system, has a buss cable (with yoke legs), has a control cable, and a bowstring. So, let's say you bareshaft at 20 yards, and also fire fletched arrows and get this result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick one of your cables. If you like, work with only the control cable. Just a half twist goes a long way to fix things. YOUR job, is to figure out if you need to remove a half twist, or add a half twist. ONE direction makes things better. Other direction, will make things worse. Of course, you need a bow press. So, what about the buss cable? Buss cable works in the opposite direction of the control cable, cuz the buss cable wraps around the bottom axle in the opposite direction of the control cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, if adding half a twists on the control cable makes things better, then, removing half a twist from the buss cable will do the same thing. SO, if removing a half twist on the control cable makes things better, then, adding a half twist to the buss cable, will have the same effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IN this photo, the control cable wraps around the bottom axle in the counter-clockwise direction. So, in THIS photo, that means the buss cable wraps around the cam peg in the clockwise direction.


Thanks nuts and bolts..... As always, super helpful


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## aeasley10

Are you paying more attention to POI or bare shaft angle? Meaning what if POI is very close yet shaft is angled nock high & left.


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## nuts&bolts

aeasley10 said:


> Are you paying more attention to POI or bare shaft angle? Meaning what if POI is very close yet shaft is angled nock high & left.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Two steps. Step 1 is to get the bareshaft tube parallel to the fletched arrow tube. Step 2 is to get the point of impact next to the fletched arrow point of impact.




























That would be ideal. 20 yards.










That's schuler26, with one bareshaft field point, one fletched field point, and one fixed blade broadhead. All at 20 yards.










Fella I helped years ago. BEFORE tweaking ONE of his two binary cam cables.










That's after he tweaked ONE of this binary cam cables...might have been half a twist, might have been 1 twist. SAME height for point of impact, and the tubes are dead parallel.



















This is an extreme example of how TIGHT fletched arrows can hit (power of fletching for steering correction), and how out of whack, the bareshaft can fly.










His setup BEFORE, we tweaked it. So, the bareshaft has no vanes (duh), so the SKY HIGH nock is not blade contact. This case also was not a cam sync/cam TIMING issue. THIS extreme case of nock high, even though the fella hits regular 5 spot 300 scores and middle level x-counts...the SKY HIGH bareshaft is cuz his blade was too thick, and the blade angle was too steep.


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## aeasley10

How to fix (Nock low/ high bare shaft impact)?

So after trying twisting and untwisting buss cables, I am still getting a nock low paper tear & 1.5-2” high bare shaft. My blade is about 30-35 degrees and my arrow sitting pretty down hill and below the Berger hole. 

Don’t have pics but would love any ideas to fix. Bow is shooting good out to 50 but I “HATE” having something I know just isn’t really right. 


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## nuts&bolts

aeasley10 said:


> How to fix (Nock low/ high bare shaft impact)?
> 
> So after trying twisting and untwisting buss cables, I am still getting a nock low paper tear & 1.5-2” high bare shaft. My blade is about 30-35 degrees and my arrow sitting pretty down hill and below the Berger hole.
> 
> Don’t have pics but would love any ideas to fix. Bow is shooting good out to 50 but I “HATE” having something I know just isn’t really right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bow is "shooting good out to 50". Then, you are done.


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## nuts&bolts

aeasley10 said:


> How to fix (Nock low/ high bare shaft impact)?
> 
> So after trying twisting and untwisting buss cables, I am still getting a nock low paper tear & 1.5-2” high bare shaft. My blade is about 30-35 degrees and my arrow sitting pretty down hill and below the Berger hole.
> 
> Don’t have pics but would love any ideas to fix. Bow is shooting good out to 50 but I “HATE” having something I know just isn’t really right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you want shooting "better than good out to 50", then, you have work to do. Tuning a blade rest requires moving the blade rest up or down, by THOUSANDTHS of an inch, to find the sweet spot. Yeah yeah, nobody shoot good enuff to notice the difference when you move a blade rest up or down 0.002-inches. That's less than the thickness of a sheet of paper, which is usually 0.003 inches. How the heck do ya move a blade rest 0.002 inches? Well, micro adjust helps. If your blade does not have micro adjust, then, you have to use a digital caliper. So, we start by putting the blade rest height adjustment to something reasonable. We do this with the bow sideways on top of a table.










Why put a bow sideways on a table? Cuz, this way, with the bow sideways, the blade has zero weight on the blade. Gravity is your friend. Want to set the blade rest height to just BARELY touch the underside of the arrow, with ZERO weight on the blade. Set the arrow perfectly to 90 degrees to the bowstring. Use the corner of a sheet of paper.


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## nuts&bolts

Prop up the limb pockets with place mats. Then, prop up the arrow to level (parallel to the table top) with some DVD boxes. Who has DVD boxes anymore? Then, use whatever you have lying around. After you get the arrow 90 degrees to the bowstring, then, move the arrow rest (blade rest) closer and closer to the arrow.




























So, am I done? Will I get bullet holes at 100 yards? Nope. You have the blade rest height adjustment set so the blade touches the blade, with ZERO weight on the blade. Now, you are at a reasonable blade rest height setting. NOW, we can start shooting. But, what happens to the blade and the arrow, when I get the bow vertical?










The arrow weight makes the blade SAG. You want the blade to SAG. NOW, go shoot groups and tune the blade rest height adjustment by 0.002-inches per adjustment. In my case, my "sweet spot" was 0.004-inches in the DOWN direction. TUNE for tightest fletched groups. WHY am I using a GRIV Torqueless Loop? Cuz, I get better results with a GRIV Torqueless Loop.


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## nuts&bolts

aeasley10 said:


> How to fix (Nock low/ high bare shaft impact)?
> 
> So after trying twisting and untwisting buss cables, I am still getting a nock low paper tear & 1.5-2” high bare shaft. My blade is about 30-35 degrees and my arrow sitting pretty down hill and below the Berger hole.
> 
> Don’t have pics but would love any ideas to fix. Bow is shooting good out to 50 but I “HATE” having something I know just isn’t really right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Using my methods, a fella got THESE results with a blade rest at 20 yards.










I call it my stress test. One fletched arrow in your quiver. Fire that ONE fletched arrow for 30 shots and try to get all thirty shots into the same hole. Most folks do my stress test at just 2 yards. Most beginners can master my stress test at 2 yards.










Some folks have no shot discipline, and they get this result at 2 yards. Yeah, the duct tape shooting line is only 2 yards from the target. Different guy.










So, this 70 year old guy, who shoots a blade rest, wants to know if I can boost his x-count in less than 7 days. He had a tournament within a week from the time he contacted me. Told him to do a bareshaft test. Here is his bareshaft test result at 20 yards.










So, here is HIS bow setup, when he did the bareshaft test.










ZERO sag in his blade rest. Blade is too thick, the blade is SOOOOO thick, that the blade completely supports the weight of his fat carbon arrows, with heavy points in front. Told him to switch to the 0.008 blade, and turn his bow sideways on a table top. Then, told him to set the arrow to a dead perfect 90 degrees to the bowstring, with the bow supported sideways on top of a table. 
Then, had him set the blade rest height to just barely kiss the underside of the arrow, with the bow sideways, so there is ZERO weight on the blade. Yup, after we were done, his blade sagged something fierce. Doesn't matter how it looks. Only matters how the bow shoots. So, how does the bow SHOOT?










He is the first guy to ever attempt my stress test at the full 20 yards. ONE fletched arrow fired 21 times, into the SAME hole. He stopped the test at 21 shots in a row. Yeah, he won his age class, a week later at the Mid West Open tournament.


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## Ruttin BUX

tag


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## FreeMike

Old thread, but thank you nuts&bolts. Really clear, making things understandable in a way that can be remembered, and my go-to reference for bare shaft tuning.


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## montanarancher

tagged


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## kballer1

Bare S tag


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## Downeastbob

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## ArrowStar1

Tagged


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## mmfk89

Bump

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## 21nwingate

really helpful thread thanks.


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## aeasley10

nuts&bolts said:


> You have it backwards. Item 1. Bareshaft misses LEFT of the fletched arrows.
> 
> Bareshaft point of impact is to the LEFT of the fletched arrow. So, the powerstroke of your bowstring is pushing the bareshaft arrow LEFT of your stabilizer. The fletched arrow has STEERING correction, so the vanes are FORCING the fletched arrow to the RIGHT, the fletched arrow is steering corrected to fly to the RIGHT. The purpose of bareshaft tuning, is to get your vanes to do ZERO work. So, you STEER the fletched arrow to fly with the bareshaft. So, bareshaft is hitting LEFT of the bullseye. You MOVE the arrow rest to the LEFT, to STEER the fletched arrow in the same direction your bowstring POWERSTROKE is pushing the bareshaft. THIS way, you get ZERO work from the vanes, and when you get ZERO stress on the vanes...FLETCHED arrows group TIGHTER. BUT BUT BUT, the fletched arrows and bareshafts are now grouping TIGHT, but missing LEFT of the bullseye. Adjust sight windage.


Would you say bare shaft tuning works the exact same way as broadhead tuning? Meaning will a broadhead tipped arrow have the same flight characteristics & POI as a bare shaft?


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## GR HUNTER

I usually also try shooting through paper at a few different distances to confirm my paranoia. Good stuff here.


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## Joe N

very good info help my tune alot


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## miles220

tagged


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## searay6

Tagged


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## nuts&bolts

aeasley10 said:


> Would you say bare shaft tuning works the exact same way as broadhead tuning? Meaning will a broadhead tipped arrow have the same flight characteristics & POI as a bare shaft?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Correct.


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## LilBit90

following.


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