# Bow Choices



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Jbird said:


> Well, after shooting the Sectionals this weekend I have made some decisions.
> Got to meet up with a guy Sunday afternoon after the shoot and he was interested to trying out my Vantage Elite and I wanted to try out his Ultra
> Elite. Since we both have the exact same draw length it was a simple task to
> shoot the practice bales long enough to find out what we both wanted to know.
> ...


I think the protec is a good choice. I know I have had this talk with you before, but I have yet to find any bow that shoots better than my protec. I have become quite spoiled by the forgivness of that bow. Being real close to the same specs as you I really think it will fit you as well as it does me. Even the 737 could not compare to my protec, my 737 only lasted 2 indoor rounds before it went bye, bye, and the protec came out of retirement.

I don't suppose you'll be at the hillbilly or I would let you give mine a shot to see how you like it. I'm currently shooting it at 26 5/8 pulling only 43 pounds (spiral cams) but I'm getting 267 fps with it


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Bg*

Yep, I would think the spirals would even be sweet at 43#s. No we won't make the Hillbilly (maybe when we move back south). We will be shooting the Nationals at Mechanicsburg if you are going there. If you get a line on
a 2006 Protec with my specs let me know. Our conversations and two of my
friends who are shooting Protecs has made me want to give one a whirl.
Jbird


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Jbird said:


> Yep, I would think the spirals would even be sweet at 43#s. No we won't make the Hillbilly (maybe when we move back south). We will be shooting the Nationals at Mechanicsburg if you are going there. If you get a line on
> a 2006 Protec with my specs let me know. Our conversations and two of my
> friends who are shooting Protecs has made me want to give one a whirl.
> Jbird



I'll be at Nationals just track me down, and I'll let you shoot mine to see how you like it. It will be a little too long, but not too much to tell if it's for you or not.

And yeah at 43 pounds the spirals are freakin sweet. That's the trick with those cams you need to shoot them about 5-10 pounds less than you would say the cam 1/2. You still end up with the same speed, but you also get the great valley, and hard wall of the spirals.

Just look for me at Nationals I'll be wearing some kind of SIXX STRINGS apperal


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Do you prefer a traditional riser vs. a shoot-thru? Nothing against the Protec...I've owned and shot both...but you might wanna take a look at the Pro Elite. Just a suggestion. IMHO the PE is about as good a Field bow as you will find. And the grip...................:thumbs_up

No matter what you choose, good luck!


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

mdbowhunter said:


> Do you prefer a traditional riser vs. a shoot-thru? Nothing against the Protec...I've owned and shot both...but you might wanna take a look at the Pro Elite. Just a suggestion. IMHO the PE is about as good a Field bow as you will find. And the grip...................:thumbs_up
> 
> No matter what you choose, good luck!




I know the question was directed at Jbird, but I have tried the proelite yet I still preffer the protec.
I know this all boils down to personal opinion, but for me I did not shoot the elite as well as I did the protec. That was actually the bow that has gotten the fairest shake from me since '06. I owned and shot the proelite for 3 months before selling it to buy another protec. I still to this day can not put my finger on exaclty what the problem was, I just never shot it quite as well. For some reason it seemed less forgiving to me.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Jury Still Out on Shoot Thru Riser For Me*

I would consider the PE but I figure it won't cost much to put the Protec to the test. My first experience with the shoot through riser is the VE and that
is not really a fair test since I have decided it is not suitable for me personally. It is a great bow and the stiff riser is no doubt an asset to some
people. I like the feel of my 737 better and you don't have the hassle of
threading arrows thru the opening. Not saying I won't try one but I think the
first stop is going to be the Protec. Lot of people still rave about the Protec
and Ultratec. Just because Hoyt has moved on with new models doesn't mean some of the old ones are not every bit as good. It just means that 
Hoyt needs to change things to create sales each year which is understandable.

Jbird


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Jbird said:


> I would consider the PE but I figure it won't cost much to put the Protec to the test. My first experience with the shoot through riser is the VE and that
> is not really a fair test since I have decided it is not suitable for me personally. It is a great bow and the stiff riser is no doubt an asset to some
> people. I like the feel of my 737 better and you don't have the hassle of
> threading arrows thru the opening. Not saying I won't try one but I think the
> ...


The funny part about that last statement was 2 months before they discontinued the protec and ultratec I was speaking with my buddy Alan at hoyt. He said that year was the first year ever that the protec, and ultratec outsold the pro and ultraelite 2006/2007 was a really stupid year for hoyt. Who ever was in charge at that time had a real brain fart. Figure they dropped all 3 of their best selling target colors, dropped the best cam system ever (IMO), and dropped their 2 best selling target bows of the previous year. It just don't make much sence to me lol. But I do think they realized their mistake, they brought back 1 of the fusion colors, replaced the safari with another dual purpose color, and brought back the spirals.
Now if they would just bring back the protec I could start buying new bows again, and stop piecing together used ones everytime I get the itch to have a new bow.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

BOWGOD said:


> The funny part about that last statement was 2 months before they discontinued the protec and ultratec I was speaking with my buddy Alan at hoyt. He said that year was the first year ever that the protec, and ultratec outsold the pro and ultraelite 2006/2007 was a really stupid year for hoyt. Who ever was in charge at that time had a real brain fart. Figure they dropped all 3 of their best selling target colors, dropped the best cam system ever (IMO), and dropped their 2 best selling target bows of the previous year. It just don't make much sence to me lol. But I do think they realized their mistake, they brought back 1 of the fusion colors, replaced the safari with another dual purpose color, and brought back the spirals.
> Now if they would just bring back the protec I could start buying new bows again, and stop piecing together used ones everytime I get the itch to have a new bow.


All too often marketing dictates a company's decision. Look at the number of comments in the General Forum when the new models are revealed each year. Really comical sometimes. Unless a manufacturer makes big changes or offers tons of new and faster models they aren't being pro-active or showing improvement.  I don't agree....just the nature of the beast I guess. IMHO if a bow model is popular...and the design is solid...then leave it alone! Change for the sake of change makes *ZERO* sense to me.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

The Pro Tec is one of my favorites of all time....I had a few of them :wink:

But IMO the don't hold water to a PE....I LOVE that riser. The shoot thru is the ticket for me....I could feel a difference the first time I drew one back.

I was shooting better scores back then with the PT....but that has more to do with fewer shoulder and wrist problems, in MUCH better shape and actually shooting everyday :chortle:

But the PE aims and feels better by a mile to me....

As for the loading of the arrow....I always hear people talk about this and most of the people that find it to be an issue are people that have never really shot one or that just got one. It takes me the same amount of time to load my bow now as it did with a regular riser. But then I pretty much load all bows with an arrow the same way :wink:


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Vantage Elite*

Still stewing on this one. After talking with Bowgod about the Protec and Spirals and reading all the threads on Protecs and Pro Elites I got to thinking that they just aren't that different from the VE except the shorter axle to axle with the 2000 limbs. Decided to experiment a little more and see what happens. One of my dislikes is the mass weight I was shooting with the VE so I took off the side rod and weights and went with the front stab only. For the harsh draw I lowered the poundage from 50# to 46#. Have only shot about 50 arrows like this but the difference is promising. Draw is quite easy now and the bow holds fantastic. Between rain showers I am shooting at 30 yards and most four shot groups the arrows are touching with the biggest group being 1.5". Thats about as good as I can shoot so I am pleased. The one thing that is bugging me is the vibration and buzz. I don't think it is cam position because the lower limb is dead center between the two lines on the cam. Going to check my cable guard set screws for tightness because I have checked everything else. My 737 doesn't vibrate a bit now with the cam position I wound up with. Still want to pick up a 2006 Protec with XT 2000's and Spirals if I can get one at a good price to experiment with.

Jbird


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Jbird said:


> Still stewing on this one. After talking with Bowgod about the Protec and Spirals and reading all the threads on Protecs and Pro Elites I got to thinking that they just aren't that different from the VE except the shorter axle to axle with the 2000 limbs. Decided to experiment a little more and see what happens. One of my dislikes is the mass weight I was shooting with the VE so I took off the side rod and weights and went with the front stab only. For the harsh draw I lowered the poundage from 50# to 46#. Have only shot about 50 arrows like this but the difference is promising. Draw is quite easy now and the bow holds fantastic. Between rain showers I am shooting at 30 yards and most four shot groups the arrows are touching with the biggest group being 1.5". Thats about as good as I can shoot so I am pleased. The one thing that is bugging me is the vibration and buzz. I don't think it is cam position because the lower limb is dead center between the two lines on the cam. Going to check my cable guard set screws for tightness because I have checked everything else. My 737 doesn't vibrate a bit now with the cam position I wound up with. Still want to pick up a 2006 Protec with XT 2000's and Spirals if I can get one at a good price to experiment with.
> 
> Jbird


Jay,
Good item to check, and check frequently! It would be also wise to MARK the positioning of that cable guard, even tho you think that the "in/out"(length) doesn't make a difference. On my Pro38's, for some reason, when it came loose, it tended to move in (shorten up), and I caught it just before it was going to become too short...and THAT would have been dangerous.

Are you using a Sur-Loc site still? You might also check those bushings on the slider...they are notorious for getting loose (worn) and you get a vibration/buz out of those as well.
In addition, snug up (don't overtighten) the mounting bolts for the site (on the riser). Those can and do work loose. I normally don't use blue loc-tite on them and after a few snug ups, don't have problems with them coming loose. I use a piece of cut milk carton plastic between the riser and site mount and it seems to help things to stay put and also prevents marring of the riser.
Do you use a "support arm" under your arrow launcher? If so, sometimes that can cause a "buzz" noise too. Just something to check.

Some "new" things are just on the horizon...like within the next 10 days or so...and you may well find your eyebrows raising and interest being piqued once again.....M......bows......

Good luck at Mechanicsburg. 
About the "wearing down" after 14 targets...a LOT of that comes from a person's practice schedule. MOST people I know only practice 14 targets...always in the evenings after work...and of course, when they have to shoot 28 targets.....they aren't conditioned for it. I always practiced DOUBLE the number of targets per day than were going to be shot during a major tournament...which meant, at least 56 targets per practice session...especially on weekends when there wasn't a tournament to go to. As I've said many times before...I won a lot of tournaments, not because I was the "best" shoooter there...but because I was the best "conditioned" shooter there...my opponents were getting tired after 16 to 20 targets, and I was just getting started. Those legs are used so much more than one would ever guess, and aerobic fitness is way more important than most would think.
field14


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*F14*

Yea I know what you are talking about on the Surelocs cause I still have 4 of those (two on loan to Son and his girl friend). He thinks I am an equipment closet. LOL. The sights we are using are the Shibuya 365 CP carbons which are a great sight and I don't think that is the source. I'm going to start taking things off and listening till I isolate the buzz. I have a limb driver on it which I have never used a LD before but I don't think that is the source of the buzz. Limb locks are tight. As far as conditioning goes we are certainly getting the cardio. Since Suzi's recent heart problems were traced to undiagnosed Type II diabetes our life has changed drastically. New diet and at least 30 minutes on the treadmill six days a week for both of us. We are using the treadmill with it set to a pretty good incline. She has lost 35#'s and I have lost about 28#s since we got on this new regimen. Just shot a tournament last weekend on fairly steep terrain and after shooting the 28 field targets and 14 animal targets on Saturday my legs were fine but back muscles were really feeling it. Probably a combination of having increased my holding weight 2#s and not shooting enough practice arrows. It's hell
to have to work for a living. Sure gets in the way of my archery.

Jbird


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Jbird said:


> Yea I know what you are talking about on the Surelocs cause I still have 4 of those (two on loan to Son and his girl friend). He thinks I am an equipment closet. LOL. The sights we are using are the Shibuya 365 CP carbons which are a great sight and I don't think that is the source. I'm going to start taking things off and listening till I isolate the buzz. I have a limb driver on it which I have never used a LD before but I don't think that is the source of the buzz. Limb locks are tight. As far as conditioning goes we are certainly getting the cardio. Since Suzi's recent heart problems were traced to undiagnosed Type II diabetes our life has changed drastically. New diet and at least 30 minutes on the treadmill six days a week for both of us. We are using the treadmill with it set to a pretty good incline. She has lost 35#'s and I have lost about 28#s since we got on this new regimen. Just shot a tournament last weekend on fairly steep terrain and after shooting the 28 field targets and 14 animal targets on Saturday my legs were fine but back muscles were really feeling it. Probably a combination of having increased my holding weight 2#s and not shooting enough practice arrows. It's hell
> to have to work for a living. Sure gets in the way of my archery.
> 
> Jbird


Jay,
Are your "E" clips new or have they been around awhile? Sometimes the "E" clips can be the source of a buzzing chatter.

Exercise for lower back....that isn't a strainer, but really helps...it was part of my cardio rehab after my heart surgery. Sit on the floor with your legs out at about 30 to 45 degree angle (whichever is more comfortable)...then, while keeping your legs flat and your toes up(not sideways), simply reach without bouncing and touch try to touch the tips of your fingers to your toes...Right hand goes to left foot, left hand goes to right foot. Do this 10 reps per side three times. Don't "bounce" just reach without straining. It will be "different" for the first few days. Then, you can start adding weights to your hands (start with 1# weight in each hand and increase it). Several things are going to happen:
1. your lower back will get stronger
2. your "quads" and Sartorius muscles will get a stretching that feels, oh soooo gooood! it will also work your hamstrings and adductors, as well as some work on the obliques and "table muscle" ha.
3. your flexibility is going to go out the roof!
4. your abs will also get "scrunched" and you might lose some more "flab" off the middle, haha.
This is a big help to me and has been now for 10+ years.

I have a few more exercises that really will help with that lower back and your arm flexibility that aren't "counter" to use of the "archery muscles"...and PUSH-UPS are NOT among them! I've found that PUSH-UPS are BAD for archery and counter-productive...at least they were (note past tense!!) for me.
Sit-ups? Too hard on the lower back..but the above exercise...you are already sitting up...so no strain...as long as you don't BOUNCE to reach your toes.

Hope this helps you and Suzie....start slow and work your way up and in a month...you won't believe how much help this can be. Just do it right and listen to your body when it tells you to stop or you've gone too far.

I'm retired...so don't have to work or a job to report to anymore...hopefully, haha. I'll give you some exercises for those legs to help you get a "climbing mode" if you want...just e-mail me: [email protected] We old "senior" field shooters has gotsta stick together...so we can "kick butt and take names" on SOME of those young whipper-snappers, hahaha.

field14


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