# sidehill shots



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I would think that bubble level is always the best choice... but then most of the shoots in this area are pretty flat.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

yup , straight up... bubble level at all times. canting the bow sets the arc of trajectory at an angle and produces an arrow that tails off the line of sight as it nears the end of it's intended range of flight. of course, the shorter the shot's distance the effect this will show.


----------



## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Are you sure they weren't talking about a side wind? The terrain shouldn't have anything to do with holding your bow level or not. Centering your bubble on all shots is the best way to go. I've heard of guys "bubbling" if their is a cross wind but not because of hills.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

geometrically, if the arc of trajectory is canted, the arrow path of flight reflects the cant, to varying degrees, if the yardage shot, is not exactly the yardage sighted for. you have to remember that all aspects of distance and height are considered only in true horizontal and true vertical dimensions when we speak of the arrows path of flight. gravity only has it's effect in one plane, that being vertical.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

Huntinsker said:


> Are you sure they weren't talking about a side wind? The terrain shouldn't have anything to do with holding your bow level or not. Centering your bubble on all shots is the best way to go. I've heard of guys "bubbling" if their is a cross wind but not because of hills.


 bubbling in a cross wind, is perfect example of what i'm saying. we cant the bow, to set the arc of trajectory in a angular attitude that drives the arrow into the wind initially, to compensate for the wind pushing the arrow horizontally. when distance is known, the method works because the arc of trajectory on it's canted path, still hits at the same point as the sighted distance, as long at the sighted distance and the actual distance is equal.


----------



## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Have found it best for me to cant into the slope a small amount before drawing, and let the site settle back to a level bubble. If you find yourself at full draw on the low side of level, it is much harder to fight back to level, and you may get some misses out the low side of the dot. If shooting on a pro range, glassing the holes already in the face may tell you if you need to hold in the high side of the dot or shoot it level. I know that I am more likely to shoot out the low side on slopes downhill to my right than the other way around. Just something that needs practice.

Yardage is not normally the problem if it is "only" sidehill.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that shooting out the bottom on the low side, has more to do with time in flight on a downhill shot, vs. horizontal distance to the target and it's affect from gravity's only pulling for time in flight, than anything else.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Bubble into the hill before the draw and finish bubble level works best for me.

-Grant


----------



## Honeymonster (Nov 3, 2005)

ron w said:


> geometrically, if the arc of trajectory is canted, the arrow path of flight reflects the cant, to varying degrees, if the yardage shot, is not exactly the yardage sighted for. you have to remember that all aspects of distance and height are considered only in true horizontal and true vertical dimensions when we speak of the arrows path of flight. gravity only has it's effect in one plane, that being vertical.


IMO, canting in the wind and thus compensating is achieved by the resulting movement of the scope on a horizontal line, not by a canted arc of trajectory.
I don't think there's canted arc of trajectory in the first place, because I don't see why the arrow would move sideways once it left the bow.


----------



## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Honeymonster said:


> IMO, canting in the wind and thus compensating is achieved by the resulting movement of the scope on a horizontal line, not by a canted arc of trajectory.
> I don't think there's canted arc of trajectory in the first place, because I don't see why the arrow would move sideways once it left the bow.


If that were true, how would the arrow not hit to the left if you canted the bow to the right? Canting the bow to the right will move the sight to the right of the target line, then you pull the bow back to the left to get the dot on target. Now your arrow is pointing left of the target, because the sight is to the right of the arrow. So if the arc of the arrow stays totally vertical no matter the cant on the bow, the arrow should hit to the left of where the dot is holding. Luckily, because canting the bow does add a lateral component to the arc, the arrow will go right of the target, unless otherwise acted upon by the wind which is what you're hoping for in the first place.

Me personally, I judge the wind and hold vertically just off where I want the arrow to go. It's easier for me to hold vertical just off my target than it is for me to cant the bow consistently.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

canting the bow into the wind does not move the scope sideways, you still aim directly on the center of the target. and no matter what angle the bow is held, the line of sight is a straight line .
as the arrow leaves the bow, in order for it to arrive at the intended point of aim. the arrow must be lofted (shot in an arc) to some degree, this means that the arrow leaves the bow in an uphill trajectory, other wise it would never get to the target........are we all good with this point ?. canting the bow, produces a flight attitude that sends the arrow slightly into the wind as it climbs to the top of it's trajectory, thus in relation to the sight line, a line drawn from the sight line at any point along it, to the top of the arrow's arc of trajectory, is at an angle to vertical, compared to where it would normally be with no cross wing and no cant. this upward and into the the wing, presents more frontal area of the arrow to the cross wing is more efficient at butting the wind than a regular "Kentuckey wingage" type of compensation for cross winds, which does ot drive the arrow into the wind to make use of it's kinetic energy to help keep it on course. 
simply stated, when the arrow is traveling "into the wind, no matter how slightly into the wind, it presents less side profile, for the wind to push on, as well as using the arrows kinetic energy and it's frontal plane, to buck the wind, there fore, it is less deviated from it's intended point of impact at the target, by the cross wind. the stronger the cross wind, the more you cant the bow, and the greater the arrow drives into the wind, thus cancelling the crosswind's effect on it's intended POI.


----------



## Honeymonster (Nov 3, 2005)

ron w said:


> …in order for it to arrive at the intended point of aim. the arrow must be lofted (shot in an arc) to some degree, this means that the arrow leaves the bow in an uphill trajectory, other wise it would never get to the target........


I totally forgot to take this into the equation, your absolutely right. sorry faulty reasoning. :BangHead:


----------



## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

Think of canting the bow 90deg. In this scenario, would the arrow still be launched "up"?

While it's true that the sight line doesn't change, you're elevating the line of the arrow (i.e. reducing the paradox) when you cant your bow.

If you have a full-containment arrow rest, you can test this out for yourself. Go shoot your bow at 25yds @ a 90deg. angle. Report back. I'm thinking you'll be UNamazed.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

of course not, it would be lanched, in a left or right, direction in comparison to the line of sight, depending on which direction the bow was canted. now, obviously, as gravity only pulls in one direction, the arrow trajectory will be continually in a downward path, because the arrow's path, contains no "loft" or "arc of trajectory" unless as you hold the bow horizontally, you also deliberately hold it to produce some upward loft to it's trajectory.
the further you cant the bow, the closer to this condition you create. the limitaions are that you cannot hold a typical compound fully horizontally and shoot it decently.
it's simple 8th grade geometry, called the " ...hypotenuse theorem"..... given a hypotenuse of a known length, the height of a triangle will be shorter as the angle of the hypotenuse approaches 0 degrees. at 0 degrees, there is no height to the triangle, so the hypotenuse does not exist in a vertical plane, or height.
in this condition, the arc of trajectory, is continually downward in path, because gravity only pulls in the vertical plane and no loft exists.


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

sumpter said:


> I have been told that when shooting side hill, you should bubble in or bubble out of the hill. what does this mean and are there any tutorials on how and why to do this?


Some have hit on what I've been told and what I do. Lean the bow into the hill as you draw. Why it does what it does is a mystery as the normally the bubble will come to center at full draw all on it's own.

If the bubble is off, whether right or left, and you try to bring the bubble to center you are said inducing torque.


----------



## 3SixtyOutdoors (Sep 14, 2012)

I have herd of bubbling into a hill when your drawing the bow on a side hill. it "should" help get you closer to level when coming to full draw less you have to fight when you get to anchor


----------



## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

TNMAN said:


> Have found it best for me to cant into the slope a small amount before drawing, and let the site settle back to a level bubble. If you find yourself at full draw on the low side of level, it is much harder to fight back to level, and you may get some misses out the low side of the dot. If shooting on a pro range, glassing the holes already in the face may tell you if you need to hold in the high side of the dot or shoot it level. I know that I am more likely to shoot out the low side on slopes downhill to my right than the other way around. Just something that needs practice.
> 
> Yardage is not normally the problem if it is "only" sidehill.


There you have it.


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I shoot off camber shots all the time on 3d courses along with poor footing, so here are the things that I have learned:

1. You need to study 3rd axis and get your sight set up or you are screwed because the bubble is going to lie to you.

2. When drawing on these shots sometimes you may not feel it till you get to full draw but the footing along with the off camber will change your form and the bubble will be pegged out to the right or left so let down and take a breath or two and when you draw the next time compensate for it so the bubble is perfect.

3. When shooting these shots your footing and off camber are going to produce a bunch of grip torque that you can't feel and in fact your grip will be fooling you and feel absolutely perfect when it is twisting your bow really bad. I use a torque indicator that allows me to see the bad torque and I straighten it up, in fact sometimes it is so bad I let down and reset my thoughts to draw with that perfect bubble and no grip torque.

All of this stuff that I have mentioned is basically ignored by most shooters, I know because I shoot with many different people during a 3d season and we have these funny footing and off camber shots all the time and I watch them all shoot 2 to 5 inches to the left or right of the 12 ring and they can't understand why everybody but Padgett hit over there.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

exactly why they put levels on sights.


----------

