# speed for spots



## JD2 (Feb 21, 2004)

Not sure if Im in the right forum but gonna post this anyway. Which is considered better for spots a heavy arrow shot a slow speeds vs. a lighter faster arrow? It seems that a light arrow would leave the bow faster leaving less time for human error but I swear I shoot the heavy arrows better. 
Thanks for your input.


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## 3D-Nut (Jan 26, 2007)

1. If you shoot like a machine like only a few do, then it doesnt matter much.

2. If you rely on tuning and forgivness to shoot well like most of us then it is more important to use an arrow that spines well for your bow. That can be tough to figure out but there are ussually sweet spots with arrows and bows. Some bows like em a bit stiffer and some like em a bit weaker.

This is more important than how fast they are or arent. You are right, a faster arrow can and I emphasize can offer better forgivness at times but can also emphasize minor mistakes in other situations. 

The best thing I have found personally is to shoot a variety of arrows at different lengths and with different tip weights. You will notice some will hit more X's than others. Use those and forget about how fast theyy are or are not.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I have shot both....and prefer a bow that I can get 260-275 range from an arrow that weighs 340+ grains.

But I also feel that if you are going to shoot "light and fast" buy a better shaft. There is a difference IMO shooting an ACE, McKinney II, Nano or other high end shaft vs shooting say a GT or Easton all carbon shaft that is light.:wink:


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

*I go the slower route*

I like the heaviest arrow I can get for indoor shooting. 

While it is true if it leaves the bow quicker you will not have as much time to influience the arrow in a negative way. There is still plenty of time to influience it no matter how fast it leaves the bow.

Like BH said there is a difference in the better shafts he mentioned. The difference is weight. 

It takes more movement to influience a heavier shaft. Because of it's mass A heavier shaft minimizes mistakes induced by the archer. 

Another advantage of a heavier shaft is it takes more clicks to move it a small amount. This is a advantage for a more precise zero. If your shooting and you start to group on one side of the X you can click your sight a few clicks and not have to worry about throwing one out the other side.

The arrow I shot last year is the Easton X7 Cobalt 2613 with a 325 grain point. The complete arrow weighed 715 grains. It shot 167 fps and was very accurate and forgiveing. The effiency of my bow was nearly 100% and there was absolutly no shock left in the bow. My strings lasted longer and I had no bow maintance problems all season. 

Like all things in archery what works for one might not work for others. I agree with BH 100% if your going light buy some of the higher quality shafts. You can get a little of both worlds that way.
Blue X


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

Only because its 20 yds every time, *Speed doesnt matter*. If spine mattered the pros would be shooting lighter arrows with more pound ... they're not. There is no way to get as 2613 to spine out of a 50# bow. Go with a High FOC and the fattest, line cuttingest shaft that you can get to fly well out of your bow and dont worry about being to0 fast, too slow, or overspined. just my opion, Im no machine, but I can manage a 300/55 average without a lens.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

:doh: 

I don't know what happened yesterday....I swore this thread was in the field section


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## JD2 (Feb 21, 2004)

*spots*

Thanks for all of your input. Im just trying to figure out what my problem is. I shoot in the bow hunter class and usually manage 300 and low to mid 50's.I shoot a 55# bow with 2613 with 180 grn nibs. My new bow came in and I set it up shooting gt 22 with 125 grain tip and Im just not as accurate. I keep having shots I cant explain. I will shoot 4 good x's and a flier every round. I thought possibly the high speeds made my form a little more critical.Just looking for an answer I know it cant be me.:wink:
thanks again JD


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

That is the arrows not the speed I would bet....have you tuned EACH arrow yet? Try turning the nocks....but it wouldn't be the first time that someone had a few shafts to weed out:wink:


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## JD2 (Feb 21, 2004)

*spots*

Not the same shaft every time. Have yet to tune it with the setup mentioned. Its shooting bullet holes with same shaft but 60 grns lighter. I have just been playing with the spots the last few days the arrow looks to have good flight. Maybe I just need to get used to a new bow.


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## 3D-Nut (Jan 26, 2007)

allxs said:


> Only because its 20 yds every time, *Speed doesnt matter*. If spine mattered the pros would be shooting lighter arrows with more pound ... they're not. There is no way to get as 2613 to spine out of a 50# bow. Go with a High FOC and the fattest, line cuttingest shaft that you can get to fly well out of your bow and dont worry about being to0 fast, too slow, or overspined. just my opion, Im no machine, but I can manage a 300/55 average without a lens.


You can get a 2613 to spine on a 50# set up. As well as a 2712. This is why they make 300-325 grain tips.

Also there were several guys in the shoot off shooting 60+ pounds. I believe Hopkins was shooting 70.

Then there are shooting machines like Broadwater and Brooks that use short 2613's and 2712's with 150 grain tips. Then again, these are the very best in the buisness.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

*You can get a 2613 to spine on 50#*



allxs said:


> Only because its 20 yds every time, *Speed doesnt matter*. If spine mattered the pros would be shooting lighter arrows with more pound ... they're not. There is no way to get as 2613 to spine out of a 50# bow. Go with a High FOC and the fattest, line cuttingest shaft that you can get to fly well out of your bow and dont worry about being to0 fast, too slow, or overspined. just my opion, Im no machine, but I can manage a 300/55 average without a lens.


I have no problems getting perfect flight with the arrow build I mentioned in my last post. 

There are 2 lengths that shoot the same. One is aroud 30" and the other is 
34". Both shoot the same holes from 6-20. The shorter arrows last a little longer because they have less whiplash effect when they hit a target. The longer arrows start flying erraticly a little faster because every time they hit the butt they are being flexed a little more and get weak after a couple months.

I have tried this on the 27's also. I have also found these two lengths seem to work over a wide section of people and differences in thier set up.

Blue X


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## JD2 (Feb 21, 2004)

*spots*

Found out the my problem, went out in the yard and was shooting groups at 40 yds and noticed I couldnt get the pin to settle. When I started shooting spots I changed my setup to a 14 oz b stinger over the 11 OZ I had been using. Went back to the 11 and started grouping much better. When and shot spots today and no comparison to the last few day shooting. Who would have thought 3 oz would have made such a difference. JD


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## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

allxs said:


> Only because its 20 yds every time, *Speed doesnt matter*. If spine mattered the pros would be shooting lighter arrows with more pound ... they're not.


Spine and speed are two different things. Spine is truing to get the two nodes of the arrows flex to stay in line and the back of the arrow to clear the bow (the latter mainly for finger shooters). Speed is, well, speed. Spine has little to no relation to speed other than a lighter spine will *usually* be a lighter arrow all else being equal (though rarely is all else equal, thus they have little relationship).



> There is no way to get as 2613 to spine out of a 50# bow.


Yes, there is. For a dynamic spine one can get a heavy enough point or lengthen the arrow enough. You can't get a "static spine" to be correct, but a static spine has many other things involved. A "forgiving setup" (that is one that allows the archer to make the most mistakes and yet hit the center - in other words a correct static spine) takes both a good dynamic spine (nodes aligning) and the period between oscillations to be "optimum" - there are also other smaller things to take into account. It is true that one can not really make a forgiving setup with a 2613 out of a 50lb bow even though one can get nearly all the other metrics to work.

Even if one gets their 2712's to dynamically spine correct at 45lbs (both nodes stay in line with the target) it isn't a very forgiving setup simply because the arrow may oscillate only a VERY few times and not have stabilized by the time it reaches the target. In fact stabilization tends to be more forgiving than having the dynamic spine correct - I shoot the same score with my 2613's with a 150 grain point as I do with my 350 grain points mostly for this reason (my form being quite consistent). Further both tend to paper tune well at lower poundages if for nothing more than the arrow weighs enough that the bow can not impart a very bad arrow flight anyway.



> Go with a High FOC and the fattest, line cuttingest shaft that you can get to fly well out of your bow and dont worry about being to0 fast, too slow, or overspined. just my opion, Im no machine, but I can manage a 300/55 average without a lens.


For 20 yards (and 20 yards only) either pick an arrow that spines at roughly a 100 to a 125 grain point (most likely in a 22-23 series arrow) or pick a line cutter and group tune it. This would include playing with point weights as a high FOC may or may not be what you shoot best. The standard setup for most charts is going to be your most forgiving setup but those aren't line cutters. For 20 yards FOC doesn't really matter as much as the arrow reacting the same every time - since you are at both a short distance and a consistent distance having the arrow be consistent at *that* distance is more important than anything else.

As a 300/55x shooter you most likely need to be working on your mental game and it doesn't matter what arrow you are shooting. At 20 yards *any* setup is going to be consistent enough that you will hit the X. You *may* pick up one X every few rounds (and don't get me wrong, that is worthwhile) but your misses are not physical.


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