# Sight falling out at bottom ?



## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

What causes your sight to get lower and lower in your sight window as your shot starts to deteriorate ? I believe it's call "dropping out". Could it be to much weight on my front stab or not enough weigh on my rear stab ? or maybe my peep is to high and needs to be lowered just a bit. 

I shoot a "V" bar set up with a 25" front bar with (only) 1oz, my left side is 10" w/9oz and my right side is 10" w/9oz. The bow feels good to me but once I committee to the shot I notice my sight housing keeps getting lower and lower as I am aiming, this is causing me to break my concentration. 

Any suggestions ?

Thanks.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Many things..
1. too much tip weight.
2. DL a little too long
3. inconsistent hand position; raising wrist as shot deteriorates.
4. peep too low and you are dipping your chin.
5. raising the bow shoulder as you try to push off the shot.
6. d-loop too short.

Check those out..>ONE AT A TIME!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## CatFan (Feb 15, 2004)

I have been having the same issue for a week now. I have found that I am not keeping the same contact pressure between my nose and string. As the shot progresses, I begin to push into the string with my nose with just slightly more pressure, (probably dipping my chin as noted above). This has corresponded with a change in draw length. I was shooting a 27" draw and switched it to 26.5" jsut last weekend. The problem began immediately with the change. I ma having to really concentrate on keeping my contact between nose and string very light and consistent.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

field14 said:


> Many things..
> 1. too much tip weight. I only have 1 oz but I did notice is was a little better with no weight
> 2. DL a little too long Possible - however I already put 4 twist in my string and built up my grip and went to 65% let off, I can't get it any shorter - the Pulse starts at 27 1/2"
> 3. inconsistent hand position; raising wrist as shot deteriorates. Not likely my grip is very solid
> ...


Thanks for the great advice - I will start with the peep


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

CatFan said:


> I have been having the same issue for a week now. I have found that I am not keeping the same contact pressure between my nose and string. As the shot progresses, I begin to push into the string with my nose with just slightly more pressure, (probably dipping my chin as noted above). This has corresponded with a change in draw length. I was shooting a 27" draw and switched it to 26.5" jsut last weekend. The problem began immediately with the change. I ma having to really concentrate on keeping my contact between nose and string very light and consistent.


Lengthen the d-loop with that shorter DL...I know, people THINK that changing the loop length changes the DL...but it has NOTHING to do with the BOW's DL...but a lot to do with your anchor positioning of the release hand.

Sometimes, we tend to have too short of a d-loop and too tight of an anchor which puts too much face contact as you try to pull harder. You get the string too far on the SIDE of your face and then you not only increase face contact, but with the shorter d-loop you create neck pressure, and your chin drops because you are actually anchored too tight and literally push the string around your face and away from you to boot. Sounds crazy...but this all works together.

I was struggling with the low sight thing...and it took me MONTHS to figure it out. I went to the Longer DL with the shorter d-loop and couldn't hold steady. I went to the shorter DL with the shorter d-loop, and while it was better, I struggled with choppy site movement...and STILL out the bottom with the site picture. A friend noticed that under both situations, the string was bent around my face and my chin was dropping ever so slightly.

That set me to thinking, so I went with the SHORTER DL setting on my module and a LONGER d-loop...and voila...problem went away and my site picture is more steady than it has been in a year! In addition, my chin stays up, I'm getting easier control of back tension and elbow alignment, and I'm much more comfortable.

Hope this might help you guys out!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

rigginuts said:


> Thanks for the great advice - I will start with the peep


When you tilt your head to get the nose to the string...this is NOT good...since your drawing elbow comes forward and UPWARDS...causing LOSS of back tension and improper alignment.
See my post concerning a SHORTER DL but a LONGER d-loop...doesn't seem to make sense, but...

I was using a 0.50" d-loop inside length and went to 0.765" and the SHORTER DL setting and it is night and day. I fiddled with LONGER DL and SHORTER d-loop and things got worse...go figure. You would think that lengthening the DL and shortening the loop would "counter", but it is NOT always the case.

You have to find the "sweet spot"...and part of it is indeed bringing the string to you and NOT, whatever you do, moving your head or "you" to the bowstring...Once you set your head position, it should not ever move! So many shooters bounce their head around; especially their chin to settle in to anchor. Every time you move that head settling in...you are shooting a DIFFERENT head position! Instead of one shot repeated 60 times...you have sixty shots and not one is the same.
People also don't think you can torque a d-loop or bend the string...WRONGO! Remember, there is hardly any weight at full draw against the bowstring...so you can twist it into a pretzel if you're a contortionist, haha. Takes literally nothing to flex that bowstring and provide enormous torque to the string...let alone the bow.
So, IMHO, just like balancing the weights on the bow....you need to BALANCE the length of the d-loop to your anchor, head positioning, etc...along with your DL to find YOUR sweet spot combination. This takes time, patience, and documenting that the change is either working or not...and you cannot tell in 5 or 30 or 60 shots...you need PROOF...since changing something like this is contrary to what you are "used to". Sometimes, it works quickly, but not always. Sometimes it might not work initially (for a round or two, but then, all of a sudden, it is like somebody flipped a light switch! 
field14 (Tom D.)


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## rossing6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Bingo on that Tom..well said...I'm always teaching to fit the DL to your front half form and face references, and use the D-loop to make the link between your anchor and the string...seems that concept is being missed as most just throw on a stock d-loop and never touch it again after that...once I get my DL set I do everything else with adjusting the D-loop length...it's all about the fit...Cheers and thanks for helping this guy...beat me to it...Ryan


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

Good stuff here .. I never really thought to much about the d-loop length. However I have considered the release after watching this Tru Ball video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CiJGT-8DDA


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Great info i made my d loop longer and a lot of my left and rights went away


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

redman said:


> Great info i made my d loop longer and a lot of my left and rights went away


Did you just do that today ?


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

rossing6 said:


> Bingo on that Tom..well said...I'm always teaching to fit the DL to your front half form and face references, and use the D-loop to make the link between your anchor and the string...seems that concept is being missed as most just throw on a stock d-loop and never touch it again after that...once I get my DL set I do everything else with adjusting the D-loop length...it's all about the fit...Cheers and thanks for helping this guy...beat me to it...Ryan


EXACTLY
I always set the front DL (bow to nose) first, then play with the rear DL (string to tip of elbow) to get my body geometry and face fit right.

A resultant slight tweak of the front DL may be necessary, and then a slight tweak of the rear, and back and forth with very slight tweaks until just right. However, this is not a quick process and may take a good long time to make sure, especially when front DL changes are less than 3 turns of the string and you have to remove and reinstall the peep or when you change the DW, which always changes the front DL slightly.

And some people think that compound bows are not complicated machines and just let a store set up their bow with a generic D-loop and the DL set on an even module setting.

And then if you change to a bow with a different string angle, you have to do it all over again, but you do have a really good starting point.


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

I find that dropping out or drifting low is (at least in my experience) usually from getting weak on the back side. Basically you stop pulling through the shot.


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## rigginuts (Dec 27, 2008)

Good advice. 

I already made a few adjustments and my problems seem to be getting a little better, time will tell. I set my release (Insideout) so I don't torque (twist) the d-loop so much and I made the d-loop 1/8" longer. But please keep the comments coming this is some interesting stuff.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

I have an old rope spike trigger that I bent the spike so that it cannot shoot and use this for test drawing bows. I can simply hook the spike onto the D-loop and adjust the projection of the spike to get everything feeling right.

HOWEVER, there is a major problem. This does not allow me to simulate the execution of the realese, so this whole issue is moot and I have to untie and retie D-loops until the length is just right.

Even 1/32 inch of D-loop distance from the string will feel different and cause different execution of the shot. Just like getting a clicker set right with fingers.

I sure wish that click adjustable Cavalier clicker had been available long ago when I shot fingers and recurve. We did rip the blade out of HOYT clickers and screw them to the window with a single screw.


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