# Sight Picture



## britts1s (Mar 23, 2016)

With my old eyes my dot is a nice round shadow that almost seems transparent. Rather than use a verifier and have a nice clear dot but a fuzzy target I just cover the 10 ring with the shadow. Seems to work fine for me. A pin that is fuzzy is very difficult to know exactly where the end is. IMO, As long as the dot is round in your sight, it shouldn't make any difference if it seems more transparent than solid.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

What size peep are you using?


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## squid013 (Jan 12, 2014)

I used a big thick ring (pink) that covered everything but the 9 ring for a little while and I'm thinking about going back to that. Worked good but took it off for hunting purposes

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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

I had to step my peep down a bit to get a clear dot. Also, is your dot on the front or back of the lens?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Can't help you. I've used different size dots and colors of yellow, orange and black and they were solid, no fade. 1.75" diameter lens, 4X. Extension bar set to 6" and 7".


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

ride394 said:


> I had to step my peep down a bit to get a clear dot. Also, is your dot on the front or back of the lens?


Front or back does make a difference. Dots and circles are on my side of the lens.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Put a 4x lens in. Target bigger. Dot will need to be bigger to cover the same amount on target. Bigger dot will be easier to see.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

erdman41 said:


> Put a 4x lens in. Target bigger. Dot will need to be bigger to cover the same amount on target. Bigger dot will be easier to see.


I've gone this route...up in power to get a bigger dot that my older eyes can see (fairly clearly). I also need to squint a little now to clarify (might be about time for a hat blinder).


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

cbrunson said:


> What size peep are you using?


3/32 I believe. I'll have to double check. I changed the sizing of it after going to my new AV25 scope.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

ride394 said:


> I had to step my peep down a bit to get a clear dot. Also, is your dot on the front or back of the lens?


I put the dot on the side of the lens facing me.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

That must be a TINY dot to only cover that little of the target at 0 power. Even with .55 diopter (4×) I'm using a .040" dot and it covers the entire Vegas 10.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

RCR_III said:


> 3/32 I believe. I'll have to double check. I changed the sizing of it after going to my new AV25 scope.


Guessing you're pretty close to the same set up as mine, 29" DL, 37" ata. With a 4X lens I use a 1/16" hole. That clears it right up. It would be very fuzzy with 3/32"


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

cbrunson said:


> Guessing you're pretty close to the same set up as mine, 29" DL, 37" ata. With a 4X lens I use a 1/16" hole. That clears it right up. It would be very fuzzy with 3/32"


I'll give it a shot for sure. 1/16 is what I've been using outdoors.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> That must be a TINY dot to only cover that little of the target at 0 power. Even with .55 diopter (4×) I'm using a .040" dot and it covers the entire Vegas 10.


The dot I'm using right now is .08" 

I was using a little larger dot but I actually seem to see this slightly smaller one better for some reason.


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

cbrunson said:


> Guessing you're pretty close to the same set up as mine, 29" DL, 37" ata. With a 4X lens I use a 1/16" hole. That clears it right up. It would be very fuzzy with 3/32"


I agree with Casey. I use a 1/16" almost exclusively...the only time I stepped up to a 3/32" was with a #1 clarifier for some 3D last year.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

shawn_in_MA said:


> I agree with Casey. I use a 1/16" almost exclusively...the only time I stepped up to a 3/32" was with a #1 clarifier for some 3D last year.


It's crazy what 1/32 of an inch may do haha I'm hoping to get to the range this evening to shoot some and test the smaller peep aperature out.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

I have one I reamed with a 5/64" drill bit to oversize it to get more light for outdoors, but it's too much for indoors. With a 40" bow, .040" works pretty good, but it's a little dark. I can usually get away with a 1/16" on a 40" bow as well.


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

For me i lose a lot of light, the target face gets darker at 1/16 when I'm indoors. Haven't tried it outdoors yet. 

I'm also running av25 on one setup. 


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

*Beiter is my favorite choise*

I have couple Shrewd and SureLoc scopes, they're lenses my be better but the Beiter beats them with accessory options

I have several Beiter scopes for different lighting conditions (natural light, artificial light, diffuse lighting, ect conditions)
29 mm scopes and I am allways buying the most smallest peep aperture inserts and if I have to I will "fix the window" with small drills

This is one scope just for review, this is an example with drilled lens, but I have a set with full lens but threaded ring for fiber pins...









the center dot/pin sizes comes in different diameters and the same set comes in different collors, also they making rings too same sets in different collors. 









You can also combine the dot (pin)  with a circle. Circles and dots they have in couple different colors
They have also centering rings and framing kits and some more apertures

Some days I feel more comfortable with x8 lens and dot size covers the X...some days I go x6 or x10 power lens and playing with the pin sizes
For Field usually I am using the fiber adapters (these 2" long fiber pins collect a lot of light) couldn't find some online picture about it, for FITA usually combining pins with rings and depend of the lighting conditions I am swapping to transparent or full color scope body. I have made probably 4-5 peep inserts to custom hole size so I can play in various lighting conditions... 

Pretty decent number of combinations you can figure


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

RCR_III said:


> Alright guys, need some guidance here on what's worked for you.
> 
> I've only ever used a lens once in the past until now and I'm having one of the same problems that drove me away from it the first time.
> 
> ...


=============

Hello
Put 2 legs on it and have no float. one at 4 and one at 8 Tin of a V up side down .
Two legs can't roll or bounce. [ Later


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Unk Bond said:


> =============
> 
> Hello
> Put 2 legs on it and have no float. one at 4 and one at 8 Tin of a V up side down .
> Two legs can't roll or bounce. [ Later


Any way you could post a picture, how exactly are you adding the legs?


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Brian's custom scope has lens and scope with pins in scope


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks for all the ideas and feedback! The lens I have is center drilled now so the fiber option may be my next step.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

ILOVE3D said:


> Any way you could post a picture, how exactly are you adding the legs?


With a lens, you could trim out some of the excess on any vinyl decal and make some straight lines as the legs. Stick them on and voila!


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

ILOVE3D said:


> Any way you could post a picture, how exactly are you adding the legs?


Hello
There is a full thread here on AT some place.
Type in Unk Bond in the search bar. Mean while I will try also to find it

U might think of it this way.
Where the minuet and hour hand fasten . To the clock face. Lets call that the X ring center of a target
Spread one hand to the number 5 and the other hand to the number 8. And now the point of both hands is at the bottom of the X center. [ Later


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I've had a history of sight picture issues. I need to be completely comfortable with the picture or my hold gets jumpy. The solution I've recently found is a dot on the lens in combination with a fiber up pin. This dot/fiber combo could also be achieved with a drilled lens. I find this is the most comfortable, soothing and easy to see sight picture I've used. I'll post up some pics later.
For dots I use plastic label tape and a rotary hole punch. The label tape is great for dots as they stick well but are easy to remove without leaving any residue on your lens. The rotary punch makes it easy to make whatever dot size you need.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Pic


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Way back I used to do a training for my sight picture + aiming point....I believe there are many ways to do the training, this was my approach I like to repeat every time after some couple weeks of relax from archery:
- so I figure that some people need a physical point to reference to, to aim (turns out this is just a starting point only)
- if that reference point is not visible some people's mind just blocks
- how can I have an undivided attention to have less possible info to mess with 
- I have built a game for myself to train, what info to pull from a view that may be important to process.... 
fast forward:
place a 2 feet long electrical tape on a backstop, in a "/" and-or "" shape, one day like this "" and one day like "/"....this is a most simplest shape, a simple line between point A to point B, simple to process...
shoot a half dozen arrows inside the line following the slope or the climb , no matter what is a distance 10-20-30-50 yards but you will see along the time further is better, , align the arrows inside the tape thickness,
this will show to brain, and give it a confidence that yes we can aim on an undefined object, just on any shape, and that is just OK if we don't actually see there a ring or an "X" 
now some people would say "I can just aim on a dot sticker on the backstop"
this is not the same, that dot is definedd exact XY position out there, 
but the main difference is that on a line you can slide up or down and that is a freedom to the brain (still locking it in L-R) but the entire aiming process may feel easier

after some time in comfort zone, we can place a vertical line on a target, after couple hours rotate the vertical into horizontal line, next couple days we can stick two lines at once creating the + or x shapes, next hour just start rotating the picture....and so on, once aiming with a fiber pin, once aiming with dot, once aiming with dual lens.....
simple just to train the brain you can aim on everything-anything with everything-anything that is available and handy 
Once the outdoor starts and the green grows to my knee's or much higher I like that game for Field, and more fun the target is further away 
the grass is covering most of the ring and how to hit the center? but the grass and the leafs moving around in the scope-lens view...how to ignore?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I'm not seeing it. Are you saying / and \ lines? How long do you make them?


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

EPLC said:


> I'm not seeing it. Are you saying / and \ lines? How long do you make them?


long as you can inline half dozen or a full dozen arrows with 1-2" spacing in between 
take your longest distance you can still comfortably hitting that 1/2" tape

this is one old picture, this is how I start training for outdoors every spring (or whenever I got a brain fart from overaiming on circle ) 
this is simple horizontal or vertical line or both, good for training (or curing ) many things
but for OP application you rotate the paper 45 degree and you've got both lines one is / and one is \ and you fill once the / line with arrows equally spaced then a next round the other \ line....and start your shooting with this 5-10 minutes training session for couple days until you clear
The point is, easy to follow the line, but you train not just to hit that line but to find your spacing along that line, and if you don't use a small fiber pin but let say a big dot and aim with that


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

sorry forgot to say, 
I prefer high power lenses both for training and competing, 

with this my post above wanted to explain how I am training for my sight picture...
I don't care how far is it, I don't care what is a shape of it, I don't care I aim with pin or dot and I don't care if I can or cannot see it,
I don't care if moves a little (because if moves a lot that needs different medication)


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

EPLC said:


> Pic


I actually ran this at first and liked it. Still had the pin there, but it worked alright for sure.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ride394 said:


> I had to step my peep down a bit to get a clear dot. Also, is your dot on the front or back of the lens?


What's the difference? I've used both sides of mine from time to time and never noticed any difference. The fiber/dot combo pictured above has the dot on the outside and the fiber is on the inside.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

For ME, sometimes having my dot on the outside gotta be me a fuzzy dot. This typically happens with a convex type lens so that may be more of the issue. 


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ride394 said:


> For ME, sometimes having my dot on the outside gotta be me a fuzzy dot. This typically happens with a convex type lens so that may be more of the issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't think there would be any noticeable difference with a dot stuck on either side of a lens but a fiber optic on the back side of a lens can create all kinds of issues if the lens isn't optically centered. I've had this issue with one scope designed this way.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Again, for ME, sometimes I have the issue and it does make a difference. 


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ride394 said:


> Again, for ME, sometimes I have the issue and it does make a difference.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Is that with a clarifier?


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

EPLC said:


> Is that with a clarifier?


I believe it was. Can't remember for sure as I was messing with a bunch of stuff trying to get the sight picture I was looking for. 


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## someguyincali (Feb 23, 2015)

I heard a coach telling my daughter to let the sight picture go blurry and not to worry about the background once you get on target. He told her to put her dot on the target then ONLY worry about the dot and focus on keeping the dot from moving.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

someguyincali said:


> I heard a coach telling my daughter to let the sight picture go blurry and not to worry about the background once you get on target. He told her to put her dot on the target then ONLY worry about the dot and focus on keeping the dot from moving.


Most coaches teach the opposite of this because sometimes focusing only on the dot lead/pin can lead to target panic. Especially the focusing on keeping it from moving.


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## someguyincali (Feb 23, 2015)

Well her groups at 20 yards went from 4 inches to under an inch when she followed this.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

someguyincali said:


> Well her groups at 20 yards went from 4 inches to under an inch when she followed this.


That's a good thing. For her sake I hope things stay that way.

Just for use down the road, if she starts getting punchy or developing tp, it's something to look at.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

ILOVE3D said:


> Any way you could post a picture, how exactly are you adding the legs?


==============
Hello
Here U go
Try get this to float. It will plaster its self flat. [ Later


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## Shogun1 (Jan 31, 2015)

RCR_III said:


> 3/32 I believe. I'll have to double check. I changed the sizing of it after going to my new AV25 scope.



Try the cross hair approach. 

http://www.axcelsights.com/store.html#!/AXCEL-Crosshairs/p/69379494

This product will not fit that scope, but you get the idea. 

I'm running them in the 31 scope with .5 diopter and .87 diopter lenses. Although I'm also running the .019 pins, the pins "fade out" leaving the cross hair and the open ring to highlight not obscure the aimpoint. 

I had tried making something like it right before Axcel released the real deal. But my attempts were crude at best as I attempted to get the cross hairs lined up and get the circle in the EXACT middle. I focused on the middle so removing and cleaning the lens would not be an issue.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Shogun1 said:


> Try the cross hair approach.
> 
> http://www.axcelsights.com/store.html#!/AXCEL-Crosshairs/p/69379494
> 
> ...


=================

Hello
Its nice. For me I would like 2 legs removed. [ Later


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## dk-1 (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm currently running a .19 up pin with a 6x lens for indoor. This season I started out with dots on a 4x lens; first was a dot which covered 7/8 of the gold and it started leading to mild TP. I went to a dot which covers the 10 ring only with a ring the size of the 7 ring, but it led me down the same road. I ended up with the up pin and just look at the X and execute a good shot. If I get my hinge to go off right, it's in the middle every time. Marginal shots catch 10's and rushed/forced shots are 50/50. I find the pin works because I can aim small on the D. The 6x lens helps me see the X, but most prefer a 4x for indoor.


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