# 3D Ethical Shots



## bishjr (Aug 1, 2008)

You are going to have that at some shoots but not all of them. It tends to happoen more during indoor, and not outdoor.


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## rmadduxjr (Jul 20, 2007)

When people place the targets out I haven't heard any discussion about ethical shots from a standing position emulating only a shot an ethical hunter might take at a live animal. Our local club is small and we have trouble just getting enough people to help set up the targets without worrying too much about whether they have set up an ethical shot or not by their placement of the target on the shooting lane. I have had to take many shots on the 3D course I would never attempt on a live animal if that helps.


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## jonas111 (Nov 27, 2009)

*Alignment*

Do you have to have your foot on a stake or do you have a line of some sort to mark where you shoot from? 

With having your foot on some of the stakes we have, you have your other foot a long ways out to get around a tree or some branches. I would never shoot a shot like that in the bush to get shoot an animal. I would be afraid my alignment or being shaky would make me injure the animal and it wouldn't be a clean kill. 

Out of 20 targets there was probably 12 of them that I wouldn't take.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

It is importnat to remember that 3D has become a target archery discipline and has little to do with hunting anymore.


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## jonas111 (Nov 27, 2009)

*I like that*



NY911 said:


> It is importnat to remember that 3D has become a target archery discipline and has little to do with hunting anymore.


I wish our shoots were more target instead of the unethical hunting scenario's. I would enjoy it more if it was more target orientated. I also think it would help me more in a hunting situation.


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## white tail 10* (Aug 3, 2005)

*ethical is training*

i set courses often
i try to make it difficult to shot , with branches and vertical distances and kneling shots , but with the "10" somehow visible in some position . and i think 3D is still mostly hunting practice for most people. the idea is that if you can do those "off position" shots you will have the skills to naturally make shots is unexpected situations ,with the adrenaline on . this doesnt mean you should do unethical shots , just you can do hard shots ,so the easy ones you usually take will come o.k.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

I don't think you can equate ethics with shooting 3D unless you keep your own score. :wink:
Shooting and hitting or missing a target has little to do with ethics.
Target shooting is about everyone being able to shoot bullseyes, 14's,12's, 11's, 10's, 8's, 5's, or zero without having any advantage other than a higher skill-set. If an unfair advantage is being used, ethics have been breeched.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

white tail 10* said:


> i set courses often
> i try to make it difficult to shot , with branches and vertical distances and kneeling shots , but with the "10" somehow visible in some position


Those are the most fun for me. Isn't this the type of setting to find out what your limits are for hunting? How else does one find out what his/her limitations are?


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## NoChance44 (Dec 29, 2009)

*IBO rules*

"Targets should be set so they are distinguishable with their vital areas (8 ring) unobstructed". While this is ibo I believe it also helps with your hunting skills as common sense, courtesy to the animal etc. would dictate not taken the shot if the kill zone is obstructed. Unfortunatley not eveyone is ethical or has common sense including some of my family members. They believe it is more important to "Launch" one and hope it gets through.


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## cabotvt (Jul 23, 2007)

It's just a game we play for fun. No hunting ethics involved.


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## natewat (Feb 18, 2010)

Jonas, I think your question is a valid one. I am also primarily a bowhunter, but I like 3D shoots. I am also new to the bow, and taking shots at targets like you mention does take the realism out of the 3D shoot. I understand the thought process behind challenging the shooter, and in part agree with it. However, it makes me wonder if setting up never-in-your-life-on-a-live-animal shots isn't chasing some hunters, like me and you, away from 3D shoots?

Interesting.

Nate


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

natewat said:


> does take the realism out of the 3D shoot.


So walking down a path and having the game animal broadside in the only clearing in the woods more real?


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## Kadob62 (May 1, 2009)

ASA shoots i have attended have never presented an obstructed shot, local shoots however are different. Shot a course in Lawrenceburg TN a couple weeks ago that required a 47yrd shot be taken from you're knees due to limbs, short or tall all had to take the same shot. Its all fun, enjoy it and remember every shooter is dealing with the same obstacles you are.

Good Shooting


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## Baconator (Dec 8, 2009)

I like the 3D shoots because I want to improve at hunting so I don't mind a shot where I have to pick a small opening through some brush or trees. As erdman said, my hunting doesn't usually involve a broadside buck out in the wide open. A couple of the shoots I go to have a buck standing between two does and you have to slip an arrow in between. Another you have to shoot over a doe's back to hit the buck. Those aren't shots I'd take while hunting but they're still fun to try. I've been to one shoot where you have to sit in a boat that is suspended from springs at the four corners (picture the old rocking horse you had as a kid). You then must shoot at the metal deer with the hole cutout for the heart. A LOT of arrows are lost on that station (mine wasn't one of them - and yes, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!). I thought that was a stupid station.


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

tough shots are fine, but terrain needs to be used instead of trees/branches imo. i understand that alot of guys use 3-d as hunting simulation, but there are alot of guys (probably more) that look at 3-d as a target sport and spend alot of money on their equipment. most of these guys would rather stay home or go to another club instead of always trying to thread the needle with their expensive arrows. continually setting courses through the brush will only hurt turnout in the long run imo...


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

smokin'dually said:


> tough shots are fine, but terrain needs to be used instead of trees/branches imo. i understand that alot of guys use 3-d as hunting simulation, but there are alot of guys (probably more) that look at 3-d as a target sport and spend alot of money on their equipment. most of these guys would rather stay home or go to another club instead of always trying to thread the needle with their expensive arrows. continually setting courses through the brush will only hurt turnout in the long run imo...



I agree. Our club has a "tough man" stake for those who like the obstructed shots, but leaves vitals clear on the tournament stakes.


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

We set up shots like this on purpose all the time. Standing at the stake your only shot may require you to get down on one knee and shoot under a branch. Or the only shot is through a 8" hole through the branches of a pine tree we made just for this shot. On some you may have to shoot between 2 trees only 10"-12" apart 20 yards out on a 40 yard target.


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## Bird Dogg (Aug 18, 2009)

*obstructed*

I personally dont' like obstructed shots, for several reasons. 
when they are set up it rarely takes into consideration the following:
Taller shooters
shorter shooters
or Left/right handed people.
I am 6'2 and there were shots that were not bad for a person like 5'6 or so, but I had several shots where a branch was across the 10 or x. and your always shooting for x's so guess who busted 3 arrows in one shoot. who wants to Play it safe for a 8 or 10 at a tournament, when you know that other people have a better shot from same stake?
Also. alot of courses are set for shots you would pass on live animals. Same course mentioned above, there was a deer at 40 yards behind crotch of tree so all you could see was 10 and x. how unethical is that? 
also stakes on tree roots or uneven ground or fallen trees, you want to make it hard put some smaller targets out, use terrain better.


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## tenmilestyle (Dec 19, 2007)

bclowman said:


> I agree. Our club has a "tough man" stake for those who like the obstructed shots, but leaves vitals clear on the tournament stakes.


Thats the way to go IMO. I get on here and other forums as well as talk to guys local. There is a definite line between shooters,on one side you have guys wanting a clear shot at the rings. The other is like me, i would rather shoot through branches,side swipe trees what ever. I like the tuff ones. But this is more for fun than any thing else for me. A few shoots i have been to have a "chalenge" stake and a "hunter stake" Makes everyone happy.


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## Bird Dogg (Aug 18, 2009)

*tough*

sometimes the hard shots are too hard for the guy who occasionally shoots 3d. it's a little different for staff shooters and guys who compete all the time, but for the avg joe who is going to lose 3-4 good arrows, all of the sudden it's not fun anymore, and sometimes deter them from coming to your club.


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## jonas111 (Nov 27, 2009)

*3D Shots*

I don't mind shots through some tree branches as long as there is an opening at the 10 ring. What I don't like is having to change my stance to adjust to seeing the target. I would never keep my foot on a stake in the bush then adjust my stance so it is super awkward and take a shot that way. 

I don't mind tough shots, but I do mind awkward stances. You can't practice that. 

Just my .02.


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## flashgordon (Mar 9, 2010)

*Has to be fun*

I shoot 3D with my 14 year old son and it has to be fun. We don't take it to the max. Some guys like it that way. I like to say things like (Thats the bear that ate your grandma) and we try to get revenge for grandma.
I had a guy tell me I needed to practice more(shot a 255 out of 300) He had a team shirt on and 2,000$ bow and all the bells that go with it. 
3D is for me a way to get outside with my son and have some fun. Not to get all worked up over a 9 ring. Hell I shoot em in the ass and tell my son RUN he is going to eat us. We laugh


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## jonas111 (Nov 27, 2009)

*Fun!!!*

That sounds like fun actually. 

Problem for me is I am a very competitive person and I would like to compete in provincial and national events. I have never hunted with my bow yet but I plan to this year for the first time.

So for me it is more of a Target Sport then it is a Hunting Sport. But that is just me. Sounds like you and your son have a great time and I can appreciate that. If I had a son or daughter that would come shoot with me then I would do the very same. 

Thanks for your post.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*flashgordon*

You have it right... its a FUN sport.. family sport etc etc.. If you really want to see fun follow a group of older trad shooters...around a course.. they laugh they set each other up : like watch out for that tree:: must be 40 yds out there: etc etc etc.. and look at their quivers not 3 arrows like the so called pros have... I agree vitals have to be clear to shoot at but sneaking between trees MAKE YOU A BETTER SHOT..and you say how... try the word form.. bow arm kept up, a good release .. and a good core strength throughout the shot. footing actually has little to do with a good shot.. I teach as well as take lessons from an olympic coach.. we have to shoot with both feet on a one gallon paint can .. one foot up one down .. a 2x4 piece under your heel and then one under your toes.. a good shooter is from the waist up mainly.. you can`t always have a manicured lawn to shoot on.. that being said... go out and have some fun.. laugh a bit.. and especially at yourself ... :darkbeer:


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## jonas111 (Nov 27, 2009)

*Good advice*



CLASSICHUNTER said:


> You have it right... its a FUN sport.. family sport etc etc.. If you really want to see fun follow a group of older trad shooters...around a course.. they laugh they set each other up : like watch out for that tree:: must be 40 yds out there: etc etc etc.. and look at their quivers not 3 arrows like the so called pros have... I agree vitals have to be clear to shoot at but sneaking between trees MAKE YOU A BETTER SHOT..and you say how... try the word form.. bow arm kept up, a good release .. and a good core strength throughout the shot. footing actually has little to do with a good shot.. I teach as well as take lessons from an olympic coach.. we have to shoot with both feet on a one gallon paint can .. one foot up one down .. a 2x4 piece under your heel and then one under your toes.. a good shooter is from the waist up mainly.. you can`t always have a manicured lawn to shoot on.. that being said... go out and have some fun.. laugh a bit.. and especially at yourself ... :darkbeer:


Thanks, that is good advice.


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## mx614 (Mar 30, 2008)

I used to set up a monthly corse. My goal was for it to get harder as the year progresses and that usually works, if you have only the same tom, dick and harry show up every month. The way this bite me in the ars was the guy who came for his first event and had interest in joining the club untill he saw what I had waiting for him in the woods. Leson was learned. From those rough days I've learnt that not too easy, not too hard keep it simple and they will come back time and time again. I always tried to look at the shot from each stake and as a right or left handed shooter. If it looks good to one it shouldn't be any tougher for the other. Thank goodness I don't have to set up the range any more and I don't have to attempt to please everyone because frankly, "its not possible"


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## bowhuntr311 (May 20, 2009)

jonas111 said:


> The trend is some of the shots are taken from a very unethical standing position or through trees where the branches definately come into play.
> 
> 3D to emulate a hunting situation


The 3D shoots in my area are all about emulating realistic hunting situations. Several shoots have groundblinds that you have to shoot from inside, and several others have kneeling shots.


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## Ruger4 (Dec 28, 2009)

This is a good post and I'm enjoying the reviews. :wink:
I think the happy medium for me would be to have longer challenging shots unobstructed in a typical standing position as apposed to having to thread the needle thru camo blind holes or squeezing it thru twisted branch thickets with the wind blowing on one knee. Frustrating shots for newbies can be very discouraging whether we like it or not and we've all been there at one point and time. The suggestion of a clear ethical "vital shot stake" and a "hunters challenging stake" is a great idea and then , maybe then , we can please the majority of the group by letting them chose from which stake they prefer.

Hey Jonas , where abouts in Canada are you from ?


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## tedicast (Jun 6, 2004)

I shoot 3d on a weekly basis, and I'm the 3D captain at the club I belong to. I make our course as challenging as I can, while keeping it reasonable from each respective stake. While I will make some tight shots, I will not have an target quartering away, unless it has quartering vitals. My main goal when I set a course is to try to trick you with yardage, while keeping each stake with in it's classes max yardage..

I've gone round and round about ethical hunting shots on a 3d course. To me 3D isn't hunting practice, it is archery practice. The way I see it, is that anything that helps you improve as an archer will definitely help you as a hunter.


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## fatboyshooter (Feb 9, 2010)

*3D is target archery*



NY911 said:


> It is importnat to remember that 3D has become a target archery discipline and has little to do with hunting anymore.


When shooting 3D tournaments U -R shooting for a score, judging yardage is tough enough I don't worry about ethical hunting shots, I'm shooting at a foam animal and I'm trying to shoot in the 12 ring or center 10!


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## IABowhunter67 (Jul 14, 2008)

Wouldn't it get kinda boring if every shot was a perfect broadside shot? Mix it up a little bit and have some fun! Most of these shoots are just for fun anyways. 
If a shot is too difficult for you, then just pass it up. Just get out meet new people and have fun shooting your bow!!


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## captin09 (Jun 30, 2009)

Diversity, that all I can say. Everyone here maid a good comment. I personally shoot for a score, so I like good broadside shots. Its challenging when you put a smaller target out at 45 yards over dips, humps, fallen trees, etc.... as the same as shooting through a small opening to get to the target. Clubs have there own set of rules they incoporate in with Asa or Ibo. Realisticly 3d is for disipline, score, and all about having fun. I like the idea of having the tough man steak to offset the styles everyone has.


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