# Is 40# enough for deer sized game?



## alecsz7 (Sep 20, 2012)

Should be plenty with a fixed blade, but wouldn't take shots any further then 20-25 yards..


----------



## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

All day long with a sharp broadhead and good shot placement....which is desired with any poundage of bow.


----------



## coldstalk (Sep 29, 2014)

the above post's are spot on! 40 lb is plenty with the average shot being less than 30 yards. a well placed broadhead with a 40# is a LOT more effective on deer than a bad shot with a heavier-draw bow.


----------



## snow panther (Feb 8, 2006)

I personally think that a draw weight/poundage number alone doesn't mean much. 40 pounds ok, but which type of bow, which draw length, which type of arrow, arrow weight, type of broadhead, etc?
I know these kind of regulations have been chosen to be simple and because they had to start somewhere. I remember that some state had a regulation saying that the bow needed to be able to cast an arrow out to 200 yards. I wonder how it is verified in the field, will the game warden ask you to shoot at 45° angle towards the horizon and then measure the distance of your arrow, if he ever finds it? 

We are in the traditional forum, so I suppose that the OP was asking about 40# for a trad bow being enough or not to cleanly kill a deer. Again, a primituve selfbow of 40# @ 28" will not provide the same KE than one the latest 350+ fps IBO compound bows. 

To get back on topic with the OP's question, in my opinion, shot placement (with a properly tuned set-up and well selected combo arrow + broadhead) is the most important. Limit your distance, pick carefully your shot opportunity, avoid bad angles and 40# even with a trad bow should be plenty enough.

I voted Yes.


----------



## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

My paternal grandfather hunted for many years with a recurve pulling 42# at his 26" draw length. He used to shoot aluminum arrows tipped with three-blade heads through deer year after year after year.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

J. Wesbrock said:


> My paternal grandfather hunted for many years with a recurve pulling 42# at his 26" draw length. He used to shoot aluminum arrows tipped with three-blade heads through deer year after year after year.


Nah, that must have been a figment of his/your imagination :wink:


----------



## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

Yes, it is enough. PA only requires 35#.


----------



## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

I think the Il minimum is 40# at 28 inches...at least it was when I lived and hunted there. I take that to mean that even somebody who draw much shorter still only has to use a bow that measures 40# at 28 inches. Indiana (where I live now) requires 35#.

I'd be interested to hear/read more from the one person who voted "no".

I'm shooting 42# (slightly less at my actual draw length) but, though I've never tried it, I wouldn't want to shoot deer sized game much beyond 20 yards. I'm thinking of adding just a few more pounds so I "feel" comfortable stretching that out closer to 30 yards.


----------



## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Yes.


----------



## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

So a typical deer is about 12-14" across the chest. Broadhead shot from my 40# bow into a solid foam block penetrates that much. Wait for a good broadside or quartering away shot and you will be just fine with your 40# bow.


----------



## kakend (Oct 30, 2007)

I said yes, however some consideration should go into it. What kind of bow at #40? Slow self-bow vs Border Covert Hunter are 2 different #40? Draw length? Arrow weight, distance, broadhead, etc.

Hope ya have a great day,
kasey


----------



## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

Absolutely not! You need at least 65 # and 700gr arrows with at least 300 up front. lol By the way..KS dropped their Minimum completely.


----------



## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

kakend said:


> I said yes, however some consideration should go into it. What kind of bow at #40? Slow self-bow vs Border Covert Hunter are 2 different #40? Draw length? Arrow weight, distance, broadhead, etc.
> 
> Hope ya have a great day,
> kasey


Lot of deer are killed by forty-something pound self bows.

Just from this board Jimmy Blackmon kills a bunch of deer with forty-something pound self bows with his 27 (ish)? draw.

Leaving aside some of the old-world war bows who started this "heavy" bow stuff? Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like it was some of the early bow salesmen who were hunting big African game and taking pot shots at deer sized game at 60 yards.

Heck yes...if you're going to shoot a deer in the butt from 60 yards, the least you could do is shoot a heavy bow. LOL 

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt deer with a 45 pound hickory self bow.


----------



## walbash635 (Nov 6, 2012)

LOL native indian's usually hunted with 25-30# bow's the heavy bow's were used for war to increase range. properly place arrow will kill deer without pass through easily. It's been done for thousands of year so don't buy into all the hype gotta have this gotta have that marketing scam's and misleading scare tactic's. I killed my first deer with a Cedar bow my grandpa made me when i was 9y old I assure you it wasn't even close to 40# draw lol. and no i didn't get a pass through


----------



## Targetshoot (May 20, 2013)

Hunted with bows like that back in the 60's with no problem. And didnt worry about pass through. You get that razor point in vitals and the shaft bounces up and down, it does just as much damage. Just chops everything up. Was fast kills.


----------



## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks for the responses and the opinions. Yes, the regulation is 40# at 28".
The main reason I asked is that I wondered what sort of lethality a broadhead would have out of a 40# bow at say...30 yards? And whether there would be a high number of non-lethal hits compared to 45# or higher.


----------



## hink001 (Oct 1, 2014)

I don't think I'd shoot a deer with a traditional bow at 30 yards. 20 is my max but I might stretch it to 25 in the heat of the moment if I had a good angle. I shoot very heavy arrows out of my 57lb recurve and 50-55lb self bows. 2 blade broad head is at least poking out the other side.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Captainkirk said:


> I notice Illinois has a 40# minimum draw limit on deer. Is this enough using a good two or three blade broadhead? I sincerely doubt this would give a clean pass-through. What's your opinion?


Yes... be sensible in your shot and a two blade broadhead would be my choice for me with that combination. I stick to 20 yards normally with all of my bows.... and learn how to get closer or pass the shot.... that might be the hardest part... :laugh:


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

MGF said:


> Leaving aside some of the old-world war bows who started this "heavy" bow stuff?


It's been around as long as bow hunting has been "sport". The Thompson brothers did it, followed by Pope and Young, then Hill and Bear, and then on to today. It's starting to subside somewhat as the majority of traditional archers are getting older, and the younger generation getting into it are, honestly, getting weaker. Gear is also getting better, and people aren't "pushing the limits" of shot distance either.

That said, I agree with hink001. At 30 yards most folks won't be accurate enough to keep them in the vitals under a stressful situation, so the lethality isn't going to come into play. Would the 40# kill at that distance? You bet. Cleanly? Certainly. Can you guarantee you'd be more likely to make a 30 yard shot just by choosing a different poundage? Nope. It's more about accuracy in that case than power.


----------



## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

I don't have any first hand experience on which to base expectations at 30 yards.

My record under "deer stress" hasn't been very good the last couple of years but my shooting is much better now. I'm point on at 25 and my foam deer pretty much dies every time. LOL

My gaps are smaller than they were in years past thanks to the little crawl down the string that I'm taking. I suspect that I had trouble getting myself to hold the tip of the arrow that low in the heat of things and shot high.

I wouldn't think of shooting my heavier arrows much past 20 because they're falling like a rock. Without the crawl I'm point on at 25 but I have to hold way over the back at 30. The smallest mistake in distance would be a disaster so it's for 20 and under.

The lighter arrows are point on at 25 with the crawl and just a small hold over at 30 will work. But 40 pounds on the fingers and about 9 gpp? I just don't know and probably wouldn't try it right now.


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

I seem to recall something about my father and his friends getting all excited that back in the mid/late '60's there was "a big to do" regarding something about one of Fred Bears Recurves having the ability to drive an arrow through a bucket of wet sand....the 70# version...and sure enough?...one of his hunting buds bought one and brought it too our house to show it off to my father and his other buds and of course the first thing they had to do was put it too the test and?...my 8-10 year old self was there and watched it happen as this animal of a man drew back and drove a bear broadhead in one side and out the other and I might note at this point...

When I say "Bucket"?....I think we actually called them "Pails" back then....and we ain't talking "plastic" here either as this was no kiddy beach sand bucket...this was a galvanized steel PAIL...heavy gauge wire handle and all...and man were those boys excited when they saw that broadhead sticking out the other side!:mg::mg::mg:

Now my father?...back then he was about 5'5"s and weighed about 120#s soaking wet...so not only could he not afford to run out and buy one?....but it was admittedly too much bow for him giving it back to his friend after taking one "Try It" shot however....after seeing that little exhibition?...all of his bigger stronger buds had to run out and buy one for themselves and to this day my father remembers and tells this story...

*"And that's about the time they all stopped killing deer and started not finding deer they shot...and a couple seasons later?....slowly...one by one...they all started selling those 70# bows and falling back too their 50# bows and began bringing deer home again."* 

Now I don't remember the exact poundage of my fathers bow...but I do recall that the first number was a (4).

I did have some penetration tests done with my 37# hybrid RD longbow (that were rather surprisingly impressive) uploaded too utube but one of our more vocal members (who has since been banned) kept posting deranged and belittling comments to them (since they were posted as "Public") so I wound up deleting them all...nevertheless....yes...out too 20-25yds?...it's been my experience that bows in the 40# range are extremely effective penetrators and with proper broadhead selection?...(preferably "hair popping sharp" 2-Blade)....the results can be downright amazing and extremely lethal.

Hope that helps and L8R, Bill. :cool2:


----------



## Bowhunter_IL_BT (Sep 27, 2011)

Curve1 said:


> All day long with a sharp broadhead and good shot placement....which is desired with any poundage of bow.


Exactly what he said. I killed my first deer ever with 45 lbs. 17 years ago. I actually hit near the deer's shoulder and still managed to get 6 in of penetration. I may have been fortunate to get that much penetration, but this proves the point that it can be done with 40 lbs.


----------



## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

I think there's enough documentation out there that I don't have any doubts about the effectiveness of a 40# bow on deer...even a 40-something pound self bow. Guys are doing it all the time.

What about hogs? Any of you shoot hogs?

With the stinky deer hunting I have available I keep thinking that (when I find a job) I'd like to do a warm weather trip to a state that has lots of hogs...and the hell with deer season in the frozen north!

When I stick the pig will it die or just get mad and try to kill me?


----------



## Roger Savor Sr (Feb 16, 2014)

Captainkirk said:


> I notice Illinois has a 40# minimum draw limit on deer. Is this enough using a good two or three blade broadhead? I sincerely doubt this would give a clean pass-through. What's your opinion?


The reason you feel this way is that you don't have any experience with it. What you choose to ignore is the vast history of bows in this weight range cleanly killing deer. You'd have been better off and certainly more informed having asked a question regarding who's actually done it and what were those experiences like. In my home state of Pennsylvania 35# is the minimum draw weight and there are no minimums with regards to draw length. My son's 300gr arrow doing 170fps cleanly passed through his deer last year - that is all the proof we'll ever need.


----------



## Bustoff (Sep 3, 2014)

I hope so because that's what I'm using.
You have to hone your tracking skills. Even a deer with an arrow through both lungs and the heart is going to run off for some distance.


----------



## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

I think you have to hone your tracking skills for any kind of hunting. I've shot and, seen shot, lots of small game with guns that weren't easy to find.

I should be hunting instead of typing stuff here that probably nobody really cares to read anyway but I'm in the "accuracy first" camp. Earlier I asked when the "heavy bow" stuff started and Kegan had a good answer.

I've been in on some of the bow weight threads on the various forums. There's a lot of guys shooting bows that I would consider "heavy". I have NOT killed very many deer but I'm not new to shooting (or hours of sitting in the cold before shooting) and I have seen lots of people shoot.

Everybody should do as they see fit but I can't help but be skeptical regarding some of the stuff we read.

My own personal opinion is that we (as a group) do a disservice in a couple of areas. One is promoting the "grip-it-and-rip-it...use your sixth sense" style of shooting. Maybe some can do it well but there doesn't seem to be too many. I can't. The other is in regard to bow weight. Adding weight just can't help if you can't shoot anyway.

Some years back, I gave my own son one of my lighter bows...a 60 pounder. Somewhere along the line I started trying to really learn to shoot and ended up shooting 40-something pounds. Nasty trick I know but I got pretty good and he still sucks. I told him to put that thing away for a while and get a lighter bow. When he does, I figure we can kind of start over and build a shot.

He's a big strong kid (29 year old kid) and he has the strength to tear that bow in half. He just doesn't have the strength to use the right muscles and shoot it well. He probably could someday if he grabs something lighter, learns to shoot and works his way back up. I suspect that there are a lot of people in that situation.

Oh well...just rambling to kill time.


----------



## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

A good coc broad head should do the trick.


----------



## Pitty2617 (Mar 27, 2010)

Yes 40# is enough. I have shot 2 deer already this year using a 40# bear montana longbow....both complete passthroughs...and i only draw 27 inches. One shot was 18 yards and the other was 24....neither deer ran more than 50 yards. Im shooting 1816's with a 2 blade 125 grain magnus stinger. A well tuned bow at that poundage is plenty enough for deer sized game.


----------



## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Roger Savor Sr said:


> The reason you feel this way is that you don't have any experience with it.


Which is why I'm asking the question. I DON'T have any experience bowhunting with a bow in this weight range and I don't claim to know the answer.....


Roger Savor Sr said:


> What you choose to ignore is the vast history of bows in this weight range cleanly killing deer.


Not ignoring anything, Roger. I don't know how effective historically a 40# bow is on deer-sized game, hence the question. I was expressing my doubts as to whether a 40 pound bow would provide a clean pass-through if the broadhead didn't get hung up on a shoulder blade, rib cage, etc. Much has been published by hunters with far more experience than myself on the necessity of both an entrance _and_ an exit wound for a clean and humane death of the animal, as well as a much more visible and trackable blood trail.


Roger Savor Sr said:


> You'd have been better off and certainly more informed having asked a question regarding who's actually done it and what were those experiences like.


How can I be "more informed" about something I don't know the answer to? Maybe I worded it wrong? I thought that's what I was asking?......



Pitty2617 said:


> Yes 40# is enough. I have shot 2 deer already this year using a 40# bear montana longbow....both complete passthroughs...and i only draw 27 inches. One shot was 18 yards and the other was 24....neither deer ran more than 50 yards. Im shooting 1816's with a 2 blade 125 grain magnus stinger. A well tuned bow at that poundage is plenty enough for deer sized game.


Thanks...this is sort of what I was looking for....evidence of a clean pass-through at ranges of over 20 yards by someone who has done it, rather than a lecture about what I don't know.


----------



## Leafwalker (Oct 7, 2008)

Here are a few more examples that it can be done. I use a 41# recurve with a 31.5" arrow tipped with a 100 grain 2-blade magnus stinger.

Last year I shot a button buck at 22 yards. The arrow entered between 2 ribs, cut through the middle of one lung, cut through the top of the other lung, then exited between 2 ribs on the other side and stuck out 8". He ran 60 yards and collapsed. The blood trail was sparse until the end where he coughed up a good amount. He was about 10 yards from where he coughed up blood.

This year I shot a small buck at 6 yards. The arrow broke through one rib, went through the middle of each lung, exited out between 2 ribs and was buried almost up to the fletching. He ran over 150 yards, but the blood trail was excellent.


----------



## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Sounds like a clean kill to me.
Although the vote so far is overwhelmingly in favor of the 40# limit, there are a few folks who voted NO. Care to elaborate? Bad experience to back it up?


----------



## HerbieJ (Oct 6, 2014)

Took my first 2 bucks with a Hoyt Magic at 38# with 85 Grain Thunderheads.


----------



## Tajue17 (Aug 18, 2005)

I had a conversation with Jerry Dishion who owned Stotler Archery and my question was is 40 enough and he told me when he started out bowhunting he killed his first 17 deer with a 37# fiberglass longbow and a zwickey eskimo broadhead that was file sharpened only. he had wood shafts he didn't remember the shaft wood or finished arrow weights but they where store bought bear arrows and the ones with the bear heads where too expensive so he got arrows with field points and put on zwickeys. 

if I remember correctly he told me maybe 1/2 the deer had pass thru's he said he waited for the deer to be as close as possible because he didn't think he was that good of a shot not because of 37# he told me back then 45 was considered heavy poundage with 40 being the most popular with the folks he knew.


----------



## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Tajue17 said:


> I had a conversation with Jerry Dishion who owned Stotler Archery and my question was is 40 enough and he told me when he started out bowhunting he killed his first 17 deer with a 37# fiberglass longbow and a zwickey eskimo broadhead that was file sharpened only. he had wood shafts he didn't remember the shaft wood or finished arrow weights but they where store bought bear arrows and the ones with the bear heads where too expensive so he got arrows with field points and put on zwickeys.
> 
> if I remember correctly he told me maybe 1/2 the deer had pass thru's he said he waited for the deer to be as close as possible because he didn't think he was that good of a shot not because of 37# he told me back then 45 was considered heavy poundage with 40 being the most popular with the folks he knew.


Crazy, isn't it? Folks get caught up in this faster/flatter/higher race and sort of lose sight of what archery IS. I brought my '99 Reflex Bighorn Hunter in this summer to have a new string put on...the guy kinda snorted and raised his eyebrows like; "Where did you dig THIS up?....Jurrasic Park?" even though the bow has had less than 500 shots through it. I asked him "Is it any less lethal than when it was made...and was state-of-the art?" He said he guessed not and re-strung it, even though he kept hinting I should look at the new compounds. I told him I was regressing...to traditional, and he looked at me like I was nuts.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Captainkirk said:


> Sounds like a clean kill to me.
> Although the vote so far is overwhelmingly in favor of the 40# limit, there are a few folks who voted NO. Care to elaborate? Bad experience to back it up?


If I had to guess I'd say some compound folks saw it in the "New Posts" and didn't realize it was a traditional thread.

Our local club is 99% compound and even though several guys only hunt with 55# compounds, when it comes to their kids/wives hunting with 40# compounds everybody seems to think it's a stretch. Guess it goes to show "how far we've come".


----------



## Roger Savor Sr (Feb 16, 2014)

Captainkirk, I don't intend to add insult to injury, but I'm certain by now in this thread you should have a definitive answer to your question, given the litany of experience. What most never give consideration to in questions and/or criticisms concerning "light weight bows" are all the other factors that contribute to penetration. Among these would be, but not limited to, the contributions of arrow weight and design, broadhead design, arrow tune, draw length, bow design and too any other factors to mention now. Draw weight on it's own is a VERY POOR predicator of potential penetration. I have a friend who hunts big moose with 40#'ish bows and a short draw length - he has ZERO problems fully penetrating those giant animals for quick clean kills. In so far as your question regarding shoulder blades on whitetails, all bets are off. Hit the wrong spot on those and a .300 Win Mag can prove useless. Having hit deer in 'the right spot' on shoulder blades with arrows launched from "light bows" and I have killed deer..........It just depends on too many things and draw weight in my experiences has very little to do with solving the penetration puzzle.


----------



## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Roger Savor Sr said:


> Captainkirk, I don't intend to add insult to injury, but I'm certain by now in this thread you should have a definitive answer to your question, given the litany of experience. What most never give consideration to in questions and/or criticisms concerning "light weight bows" are all the other factors that contribute to penetration. Among these would be, but not limited to, the contributions of arrow weight and design, broadhead design, arrow tune, draw length, bow design and too any other factors to mention now. Draw weight on it's own is a VERY POOR predicator of potential penetration. I have a friend who hunts big moose with 40#'ish bows and a short draw length - he has ZERO problems fully penetrating those giant animals for quick clean kills. In so far as your question regarding shoulder blades on whitetails, all bets are off. Hit the wrong spot on those and a .300 Win Mag can prove useless. Having hit deer in 'the right spot' on shoulder blades with arrows launched from "light bows" and I have killed deer..........It just depends on too many things and draw weight in my experiences has very little to do with solving the penetration puzzle.


Roger, I DO have an answer...and a very surprising one at that. I admit when I asked the question I was somewhat skeptical about the effectiveness of a 40# bow delivering an effective lethal kill shot, but numbers don't lie and the votes are overwhelmingly in favor of a 40# bow being entirely adequate, given (as you mentioned) the proper arrow, broadhead, and distance chosen to shoot/don't shoot. And you are correct about bone issues...I read recently about a guy who shot a deer in the head (why?) with a .30-30 and when he went to retrieve the kill, the "dead" deer sprang up and ran off into the bush with only a flesh wound. Bullet had bounced off the skull plate.
It would appear that the draw weight of the bow is far less important than accurate shot placement.


----------



## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

By the way...my answer was a joke...sorry you probably didn't know that.


----------



## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Mo0se said:


> By the way...my answer was a joke...sorry you probably didn't know that.


I sorta figured, and decided if it wasn't I wouldn't argue with a guy that could pull a bow like that....:weightlifter:


----------



## tomcat66 (Sep 7, 2006)

Plenty!


----------



## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

plenty, especially if you draw over 28". tune the bow,arrow and broadhead and make sure its sharp and put it where it needs to go.


----------



## zz650 (May 31, 2007)

YES, good shot placement is key . MN is 30# draw, my buddies son had a pass through at 14 yards with 35# fixed broadhead thunderhead 100 grain


----------



## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I started with a set of 40# limbs but have worked up to higher poundage for hunting. I feel more confident with heavier poundage and arrows. I think there might be different thoughts on the 40#. If that is your limit but can shoot accurately you are better off than shooting more weight inconsistantly. 
I like a bit of an edge for the "just in case".


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Bill 2311 said:


> I started with a set of 40# limbs but have worked up to higher poundage for hunting. I feel more confident with heavier poundage and arrows. I think there might be different thoughts on the 40#. If that is your limit but can shoot accurately you are better off than shooting more weight inconsistantly.
> I like a bit of an edge for the "just in case".


That's a good point. You can also maximize lethality with a quality sharpening system, slick, small diameter arrows, and perfect tuning, as well as keeping shots a little closer.


----------

