# Low hold on target



## BULLETBUSINESS

Im having difficulty getting my pin up to the dot. It settles low and wants to stay there. Jerking it up isn't working well either. I'm pretty sure my ailment must somehow be related to target panic but I'd really be interested in some drills to work on to correct it. Thx in advance for your help.


----------



## savagelh

i used to do that. Now i bend back at the hip ever so slightly rather then try to lift the bow up. Worked for me.


----------



## John-in-VA

I find that when I'm shooting dot's I do the same thing .I want to see the dot and it's hard with my old eyes .So I just add a yard and hold under the dot .The best of both worlds ,it works for me .
3D targets and real game it's different I can hold on a spot I want ,it's just dot targets that I do it on .I dont shoot them for score just to keep in shape shooting in my basement.


----------



## BULLETBUSINESS

All good ideas and will try them both. I've started shooting a target bow for both dots and 3D and it's pretty competitive so I'm trying not to embarrass myself unnecessarily.


----------



## mprus

Are you drawing high, low , or right on target? I have had good local shooters tell me to draw right on target so as to avoid potential target panic but when I watch live coverage of indoor archery shoots like Lancaster or Vegas, I notice that almost every one of the top pros draws a few inches high and drifts down to the X.


----------



## ArcherXXX300

Some people have to see the center and if the pin is obstructing the view of the center it drifts below center and is called a "6 o'clock hold." I have issues myself my dot will sit in the center and fall, I've been working like mad to figure it out and fix it. You may want to try a very small pin, a small dot on scope lens, or a circle lens, maybe even a "true spot lens (which requires no aiming reference point such as a pin or dot, it only magnifies the center of the target you're looking at.)" I've tried it all, some people just sight in and put the pin slightly below the X. To me its difficult to explain because I have no idea where my pin is when I start executing the shot, I don't think it is actually on the X but IDK in all seriousness. I'm still searching for the sight picture and hold I need myself.


----------



## BULLETBUSINESS

I'm holding high and allowing it to settle. The problem is it wants to settle somewhere in the area of an inch or two low every time. It floats perfectly after it finds that happy spot two inches low. Then I'm forced with the decision of trying to muscle it up with my bow arm (and usually execute a drive by) or tilt ever so slightly at my hips to try and get it up to the X. By that time my hold time is quickly approaching "my" comfort time and the shot is hurried.


----------



## ron w

you have what is typically a mild and second most common form of target panic and it actually has nothing to do with your "aiming". it is actually your release process trying to keep from "having to run", by keeping the pin off the center of the bulls eye, so it doesn't have to commit itself to running, because it's not as confident as it should be. it is essentially, not accepting the message to "run the release" by doing what ever it can to keep the pin in the area that presents the opportunity to "run the release".
you need to teach your shot execution that it is OK to be in the middle of the bulls eye. you do this by working at the 10 yard bale, where the bulls eye is large and relatively easy to stay in, until it learns to be at ease with being there. during this routine, any time you lock up low or anywhere you don't want to pin to settle, let down on the shot and start over. this teaches the shot execution that the only acceptable condition in which to run is when the pin is where you want it to be......right in the middle of the bulls eye....if it doesn't settle there, don't force the shot, because teaches that the bad settle is OK, rather....a let down, teaches the shot execution, that you don't accept where that pin settled,.... so it cannot settle there. the key here, is to let down religiously on any and every pin settle that is not exactly where you want it to settle. 
this 10 yard drill is not a quick cure, it will take a while, with lots of repetition and frequent let downs, but if you have this problem and unless you commit to this training, even if you overcome it, it will only be temporary and the freezing low will return, because you have to allow your release process to learn, it good to be in the center of the bull and perfectly OK to refuse to run on a poor set up. this is where the saying, " a let down, is as good as a bulls eye", come from, because a let down saves a bad scoring shot, that would cost the shooter a bulls eye.
there's lots of reading, if you do a search using "target panic", or "freezing low", or "bridge", or "10 yard baling".


----------



## mprus

Actually I'm kind of having the same problem right now. What I am going to try is to focus more on the target and try to keep the pin in the background as I
drift down. I believe we may be experiencing a form of target panic because if we can stop it below the target we should be able to stop it on the target.


----------



## ron w

one would think so, but until you teach your shot execution, that it's "good" to be in the middle of the bulls eye, your release process will run the show because it has the last say about whether the arrow leaves or not. it (the release execution) is the part of your shot process that has to be the boss and have the reliability and confidence to run correctly and decide when the arrow leaves. if it can't do this, it will put the whole show on the brakes.....that's when it makes the aiming process freeze low. you see, it wants to stop the show before it knows it needs to perform, by putting the "blame" on some other character in the show. the easiest way, is to make your sight picture wrong, so it doesn't have to run, and doesn't get blamed for not running, or causing a miss.
consciously and outwardly, you think you are having an "aiming issue" but that's not what is really going on. in reality, your release execution isn't sure of its self, or is not getting a clear message to run, so it ....because it's the "boss" or has the final say in the shot process...., it makes some other part of the shot process be the outwardly appearing culprit, and the easiest way is to make your sights not be where they should. that's why you so easily and seemingly naturally settle in off the center of the bulls eye, and then it's so difficult to get the pin up there where it should be.
that release process won't allow the pin to go up there, because if it does, it has to run and it knows it. so it use the "excuse" so to speak, of your sight pic being wrong to keep from not achieving the correct final result of it's job....sending that arrow to the middle of the bulls eye.
many people have this same problem when they can't get a shot off because they think they are floating around too much....or "not trusting the float".....it is that same release process refusing to be blamed for a sending the arrow. 
both of these problems are corrected at the 10 yard bale with the exact same routine.
there is truly, no other way to eliminate this problem, but to work at the 10 yard bale. whether you're a command shooter, or you have a decent subconscious release process, already, you can still suffer from this freezing sight picture, because it actually has nothing to do with your "aiming process".


----------



## BULLETBUSINESS

Ron-you are spot on! I struggled with a horrendous bout of TP a couple years ago and I finally worked through it without a sight and at 5 yards with a BT release. Shot 100 arrows a day for 8 weeks starting at 5 yards-no target. After a couple weeks I graduated to a paper plate target at 5 yards covering each hole I made with white tape to discourage me from aiming at the previous hole. Each week the plate shrank by 1 inch and I moved back 2 1/2 yards. Never cured but I'm doing better but am sure this has some history embedded in that. Thamks a lot for the good advice. Hope I can count on additional counseling from you as required.


----------



## aread

Two other possibilities:
One is that your bow's draw length is a little long. You don't have the leverage to hold it smoothly on target.

Two, you are relaxing your back muscles as you draw past peak weight. Keep your muscles strong and engaged through follow through. Once muscles are relaxed, it's difficult to re-engage them to execute.


----------



## ron w

actually, aread, you're right!....
I should have mentioned those as a.. "check to see if".. before going to the target panic thing. it relates how critical draw length is with a compound. I sometimes take for granted that draw length is at least close enough that it doesn't upset the dynamic structure of the shot.


----------



## AJ the TP Guru

That's likely the most common symptom of target panic I hear - holding low.
V
V
V
V
V
V
V
V
V


----------



## montigre

I don't like when people rush straight to the target panic diagnosis when there are many form and tuning issues that could cause the very same symptoms. Let's treat the cold first before making the diagnosis of plague....:wink:


----------



## BULLETBUSINESS

I seem to shoot my hunting bow OK with less trouble holding low. I shoot a wrist/trigger release while hunting but have been tinkering with a thumb release with my target bow. Does seem a bit longer with the thumb release.


----------



## montigre

BULLETBUSINESS said:


> I seem to shoot my hunting bow OK with less trouble holding low. I shoot a wrist/trigger release while hunting but have been tinkering with a thumb release with my target bow. Does seem a bit longer with the thumb release.


How long have you been shooting? What are the 2 bows in question, their DW and their DL? What type of thumb release are you playing with? What sights/aiming apertures are you using on each bow? What does your float pattern look like with the two bows--how are they different? What is your stabilizer set up for each? I ask all of these questions because very often, you cannot take all of what works with one set up and expect it to work on another, even if the other bow is the identical make and year....


----------



## subconsciously

Put your thumb or finger behind the trigger where you know you can't fire it. Can you hold on the spot? If yes - mental. If no - possibly mechanical.


----------



## Pete53

i have had this same problem , what seems to help me is i added more weight to my back stabilizer it seems to help me hold better.good luck


----------



## straight2it

I believe that has to do with your draw length being a little too long. I will find the video for you.


----------



## straight2it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyBKOApNqos&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## Pete53

very good video,i know that will help me! thank you,Pete53


----------



## straight2it

Pete53 said:


> very good video,i know that will help me! thank you,Pete53


No problem! Who would have thought it wasn't TP, it was a physical solution! Shorten DL or d loop! Lastly check the peep height.


----------



## JBudz

I always draw high, and slowly let my pin fall on target. I get my best groups if I release while still "falling", as soon as my pin is on the dot.


----------



## Elkwithastick

I'm 40 now, have bowhunted since 12. I've cycled through target panic twice. What cured me was going to the Scott HEX. It's a wrist style back tension. There are a couple videos on you tube. I think Bill Winke has one. I was able to go back to my regular release later on. I took several animals with the Hex, and practice was easy. One things for sure you'll never punch the trigger with that hex if you've got a monster in front of you. You have to collect yourself and think to shoot. Just a thought....but it worked for me.


----------



## mike 66

JBudz said:


> I always draw high, and slowly let my pin fall on target. I get my best groups if I release while still "falling", as soon as my pin is on the dot.


this is called a drive by is not the best way to shoot....and yes you can learn to PUNCH a hinge....i have to disagree with you guys...


----------



## subconsciously

mike 66 said:


> this is called a drive by is not the best way to shoot....and yes you can learn to PUNCH a hinge....i have to disagree with you guys...


You know Mike, maybe more of the guys posting here should read the forum rules. 

"We would please like to have only 'Certified Instructors' reply to this forum, your co-operation is greatfully appreciated."

I would rather someone get no advice than bad advice. 

.02


----------



## mike 66

I AGREE:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## aread

JBudz said:


> I always draw high, and slowly let my pin fall on target. I get my best groups if I release while still "falling", as soon as my pin is on the dot.


About 8 years ago, I "discovered" this technique of shooting. I practiced all summer by starting close and gradually stepping back until I hit 20 yards. By myself on the range I was consistently hitting 60X's. I thought I was going to Vegas that year & show those guys how it was done. At the first local tournament, I was on the line between Mike Leiter & Darren McCutcheon & feeling just a little pressure. After all these guys have won a lot tournaments at the national level. But really not much pressure because these are two of the nicest guys you could hope to shoot with. It turned out to be day one of the worst cases of target panic I've ever heard of. It took me a long time to get back over 290. I probably would have quit archery but for the great people at my club. 

The point is that this method of shooting requires perfect timing. If you are "on", you will shoot great scores. If you are feeling just slightly more or less tension than you experience in practice, you will shoot horrible scores. The natural, but disastrous reaction to lower scores is to try harder, which leads to more tension and pretty soon you have a full blown case of target panic.

If you are having trouble keeping your pin near the X, your form and bow setup are much more likely to be the culprit than target panic. Get your bow shoulder down & keep your back strong. Keep testing different setups until you have your equipment and form tuned well enough that holding on the X is easy. 

OK, "easy" may be exaggerating it a bit.  But you can find an optimum form and setup that will allow you to shoot the scores that you are capable of.

JMHO,
Allen


----------



## johncraddock445

I fought this most of last year... this is simply a form of target panic and will continue to get worse unless it is addressed... this commonly happens to a shooter that takes a step to become more serious about archery and really puts pressure on themselves to improve as I was last year... 
This problem has since worked or is (working) itself out. It does not consume my whole shooting session anymore and I am enjoying Archery more than ever...
There were 2 different things causing this, the first being my form... my bow shoulder was up way to high in return "locking" me up and not letting raise my pin to the X... so to solve this I consciously lower my shoulder and "drive" it to the target.
The second issue i was having was pure target panic. I was holding low, jerking up and releasing at the X. For a short while i tried to add a yard or 2 then i started to hold lower and lower it was just a vicious cycle... I was told by many that i needed to start all over and learn a new shot sequence and fire my release subconsciously. (Easier said than done) so I ditched my thumb release and picked up one of those "scary" back tension releases...a hinge.... it definitely took a few weeks but i picked it up rather quickly and all of sudden i noticed that i could hold my pin where I wanted with confidence...
The longer you try to put a bandaid on it by adding a couple yards or jerking up! At release the longer it will take to break this horrible habit...good Luck to you


----------



## mike 66

straight2it said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyBKOApNqos&feature=youtube_gdata_player


nice video


----------



## tonygoz

Tagged for reference.


----------



## tyler.creekmore

I have the same problem it sucks


----------



## Camp

a little target panic i would say


----------



## aebennett

I know this is an old thread, but the op has the same problem to a t as me. I always hear from this website to switch to a hinge release to cure the problem. The only reason I hesitate to try one is I feel like switching to a thumb release caused the problems I now have. I am afraid a hinge will only aggravate my issues.


----------



## aread

Switching releases will help. However, it's not that any hinge is a magic solution to shooting problems, it's just that it is different from your current release. It gives your brain different cues to start your shot sequence. And it gives you a chance to rebuild your shot without correcting the problems of your old release.

It won't work well if you don't rebuild your shot sequence. And follow your shot sequence. 

I think that many shooting problems are due to getting the aiming and start of execution in the wrong order. The right way to do it is to ignite your execution then aim. I'm sometimes guilty of aiming then executing and find that it requires my mental focus to shift back and forth. A recipe for crappy shooting. 

This section of our shot sequence should be:
- draw
- anchor
- calibrate - put your pin in the general area of the X
- begin execution - which should take 3 to 5 seconds to complete
- aim - focus intently on the X.
- follow through

Obviously, I've left out a few steps of a good shot sequence. But this is the part that I see too many archers getting wrong.

Get this right and get your equipment to fit and you will solve many shooting problems.

Allen


----------

