# Arrow consistency



## swwishooter (May 12, 2014)

I have been having an issue with arrow impacts from shot to shot. I'm currently having my best pin float, and am letting down more often during bad shots. Only problwm Im having now is that from each shot, it seems like Im getting different impacts. I've numbered the arrows to make sure its not just a single bad arrow, but its all arrows moving just a bit. I will make a shot with arrow #2 and pinwheel the x, next shot with arrow #2 it will go straight left and be a inside the 4 rings. This will go one with different arrows, and in different directions. Ive checked the pins, nocks, shafts, and my form looks very consistent from my coaches opinion. Could it be to stiff of a shaft making any micro changes blow the miss out of proportion? Just wondering what you are all thinking, as this has me scratching my head.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Well, if you are a good shooter and it isn't you causing the problem then you just need to group tune your arrows. Simply shoot and turn the nock and the arrow will change its point of impact and your job is to find the nock position where it hits dead on. When I used to do this I would do it at 50 or 60 yards because it is easier to see changes at longer distances. It is hard to do at 20 yards.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, with no information for the bow and the arrows, type of release....I'm saying it's you..... Give me something and maybe I'll change my mind.


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## swwishooter (May 12, 2014)

Hoyt Faktor 34 60# at 28" draw. Victory X-ringers 350 90gn tip, 26.5 carbon to carbon, stock bushing w/ goldtip HD pin nocks. Release is Scott longhorn 3. Ran it through on target and it says it's stiff, which I knew.


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## hooks (Mar 22, 2005)

grip, torquing, creep, release, arrow contacting bow, rest issues, lighting, vision,,,,,


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Thank you. Sort of tough to make any comment with no information. Yes, a bit stiff, but better stiff than too weak. Victory use to have their label centered to the spine. Easy check. Pull bushing and look inside shaft. Should be a burnish line that should match up with the label. All the HV 350 X Ringers and 3 dozen of my X Killers were this way. Friend of mine has the X Ringers, 100 gr point, and using with a 50 pound Martin Bengal. He pounds the bull's eye and a healthy number of Xs... He uses the indoor single spot and breaks nocks and bends pins to no end.

Your release is one of the best. How long have you been using it? Step up closer and consciously have your release arm in the same position each and every time. See how that comes out. Give 15 to 17 seconds between shots - lets muscles recover.


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## graydragon2 (Nov 16, 2014)

I've had that problem before and me turned out to be a bad rest. The spring messed up and it was dropping different each time


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## swwishooter (May 12, 2014)

SonnyThomas said:


> Thank you. Sort of tough to make any comment with no information. Yes, a bit stiff, but better stiff than too weak. Victory use to have their label centered to the spine. Easy check. Pull bushing and look inside shaft. Should be a burnish line that should match up with the label. All the HV 350 X Ringers and 3 dozen of my X Killers were this way. Friend of mine has the X Ringers, 100 gr point, and using with a 50 pound Martin Bengal. He pounds the bull's eye and a healthy number of Xs... He uses the indoor single spot and breaks nocks and bends pins to no end.
> 
> Your release is one of the best. How long have you been using it? Step up closer and consciously have your release arm in the same position each and every time. See how that comes out. Give 15 to 17 seconds between shots - lets muscles recover.


I've been running this release for a year and have been having great success with it. Last year I used this exact arrow setup with my AE running a little lower poundage, but the same DL. I shot fantastic with them besides my mental lapses, which I've been working on. I will check the spines and maybe do some refletching.


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## Strodav (Apr 25, 2012)

If everything is tight and the bow is tuned for the arrows (for me that's bare shaft bullets through paper at 10 yds and field points flying with bare shafts), I agree with graydragon2, check your rest. I check my longer distance field arrows with a home made hooter shooter (Ryobi miter saw bench based) to make sure I don't have any fliers. If your hitting the same hole with an arrow, the only things left are the release and archer.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Follow through? Stay in the shot until you hear "thump." About the only thing one can do is pick apart until something "clicks." Like graydragon, I had the spring adjustment slip on my rest just enough that if I held a bit longer than usual the rest would easy down.


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## swwishooter (May 12, 2014)

After attempting to group tune by nocks, I decided to pull the bushing on 1 to fine the spine like e. Its wasn't the center of the label, but it definitely had a consistent line associated with 1 side of the label. I ended up indexing and refletching my arrows, and they flew much better. Thank you everyone for your input, and hopefully this is the start of a good year.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Here's what my Muddy Outdoor arrows look like on the inside. Some narrow, some wide. I just pick the center of the wide and mark on the outside.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I doubt with an arrow that stiff, that the lack of spine indexing will cause the problem you describe, especially at 20 yards.
take a close look at your draw length and your release execution, if you push-pull, differing amounts of push-pull will do what you describe and if your draw length is a bit short, that will exaggerate the push-pull inequalities..


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Padgett said:


> Well, if you are a good shooter and it isn't you causing the problem then you just need to group tune your arrows. Simply shoot and turn the nock and the arrow will change its point of impact and your job is to find the nock position where it hits dead on. When I used to do this I would do it at 50 or 60 yards because it is easier to see changes at longer distances. It is hard to do at 20 yards.


I don't disagree with you very often, but I do not agree with this assessment. Group tuning won't help if individual arrows won't repeat. While there is no way for us to know the condition of the tune of the bow being used, if the "same" arrow is hitting in different left/right-up/down placement it is almost always a form/execution issue... assuming there is nothing loose on the bow.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

I would look at the release hand. Do you anchor the same position every time? Is your sting contacting your face differently? Is your firing engine consistent? Are you holding the wall with the same consistency? Are you shooting with a relaxed bow arm? At 20 yards with a good solid execution a flier should still be in the 5.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm with you EPLC, if I couldn't shoot one arrow dead on and it was hitting differently every time I shot it there is no way I would try to group tune my arrows. I have actually never had this happen when I was shooting good regardless of the tune job on the bow, the only time I have had a arrow shoot differently from shot to shot was because I sucked and was causing the problem. 

Now I have had poorly tuned bows that I could shoot one arrow pretty good and then the other arrows would hit totally different but back then I didn't even know that you could turn nocks to change the point of impact.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Crap, I just read his original post and I must have not read it very well because I didn't realize he was claiming that his number 2 arrow was hitting way different from shot to shot.

1. If you have your bow tuned pretty good with good arrow flight then to me there is a 99% chance that the problem is you and your shooting, if you are making good releases and are executing a solid shot then that arrow should hit the same from shot to shot. 

2. The only way you are going to see funny impacts from that arrow is if your bow is poorly tuned and has really bad arrow flight or cam sync where you have made the bow very very very unforgiving so that very little mistakes in your shot such as little flinches or you creeped or you torqued the riser cause the arrow to change its poi more than a bow that is tuned to be very forgiving.

A few years ago I was just getting started and I had a variety of arrows with different spines and lengths and total weight and I only had about 7 total arrows. I can remember that I had to know each arrow personally and most of them hit within a inch of each other but there was one of them that was 2.5 inches up and to the right from the others. So, I aimed according to what arrow I was using and I shot just fine even winning some of my first 3d tournaments. Each one of those arrows shot the same every time but as a group they shot different.


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

I am going to make a wild --- guess that you are introducing hand torque into the bow just a little goes a long way and will have you chasing your tail for weeks


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## swwishooter (May 12, 2014)

I shot again a bit today, and have noticed that since finding the spine on the arrows has still helped. I will be playing with my grip a bit, and possibly removing my side plates to see if torque is an issue. I just don't know how I can go from holding steady enough to have a nice float inside 10 ring on Vegas, and then have my arrows hitting inconsistently. I will keep playing I guess, but overall my shooting consistency has improved greatly with finding the spine.


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

I think you should try removing the side plates they can plat havoc with grip had to take them off the shift and float for 3d went to zero


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

swwishooter said:


> I shot again a bit today, and have noticed that since finding the spine on the arrows has still helped. I will be playing with my grip a bit, and possibly removing my side plates to see if torque is an issue. I just don't know how I can go from holding steady enough to have a nice float inside 10 ring on Vegas, and then have my arrows hitting inconsistently. I will keep playing I guess, but overall my shooting consistency has improved greatly with finding the spine.


If you think you have a torque issue check out the Post I have. Rig anything that will give a reference point. Doesn't have to be fancy or last forever, just that it indicates you are torqueing or you're doing a good job.

A couple of training aids...True Shot Coach and Slick Shot (I recently posted of). Just suggestions. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2365348


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Spine....I've shot arrows that should be so weak as to snap and I have snapped them when shot up close, but they all proved accurate. The stiffest I can think of was a CXL 350 (338 spine) and a 55 pound bow would make it really stiff, but it found the X time and again.


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