# BCY and Brownell comparison list help



## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Pure and simple and I don't want to sound rude but your assessment is not even close

8190 and XS2 Two completely different make ups

8190 = is made from SK90 highest made of dyneema available with gore added
XS2 No one knows what its made of ...The web site says its 100% HMPE , that don't tell us nothing as most all string materials are 100% HMPE

ATSRO no one knows what its made of 

Trophy is basically 452X with Gore added

Bets thing to do is go to each web site and read the make up of the materials...BCY has the best description...




> Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (UHMWPE or sometimes shortened to UHMW), also known as high-modulus polyethylene (HMPE) or high-performance polyethylene (HPPE), is a subset of the thermoplastic polyethylene. It has extremely long chains, with molecular weight numbering in the millions, usually between 2 and 6 million. The longer chain serves to transfer load more effectively to the polymer backbone by strengthening intermolecular interactions. This results in a very tough material, with the highest impact strength of any thermoplastic presently made.[1] It is highly resistant to corrosive chemicals with exception of oxidizing acids; has extremely low moisture absorption and a very low coefficient of friction; is self-lubricating; and is highly resistant to abrasion, in some forms being 15 times more resistant to abrasion than carbon steel. Its coefficient of friction is significantly lower than that of nylon and acetal, and is comparable to that of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, Teflon), but UHMWPE has better abrasion resistance than PTFE.[2][3] It is odorless, tasteless, and nontoxic.[4]
> 
> Polymerisation of UHMWPE was commercialised in the 1950s by Ruhrchemie AG, which changed names over the years; today UHMWPE powder materials are produced by Ticona, Braskem, and Mitsui. UHMWPE is available commercially either as consolidated forms, such as sheets or rods, and as fibers. UHMWPE powder may also be directly molded into the final shape of a product. Because of its resistance to wear and impact, UHMWPE continues to find increasing industrial applications, including the automotive and bottling sectors, for example. Since the 1960s, UHMWPE has also been the material of choice for total joint arthroplasty in orthopedic and spine implants.[5]


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

to add from my memory, Brownell states that Astro and XS2 are the exact same material, but XS2 obviously thinner strands.

452x - excel are supposed to be pretty much same makeup

But like said Brownell never tells what their materials are actually, Ive done some research myself and i know where it comes from so..........wont catch me building with it even if brownell gave me 10K dollars worth of every color in every material. Sorry buy yes im biased based on what i know, and others know also.


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## tuckarch (Sep 19, 2002)

Ultra cam is blended, I went today to the guys house who taught me how to make strings back in 95.. He still uses ultra cam, and it appears to be blended with a large amount of vectran. Not sure what the ratio is, may be on brownells webpage.. but it's definitely not comparable to 8195... because 8195 is non blended..


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

As you can see , big difference between some of the products..blended vs non blended

Blended products
*Xcel*- 1/3 Vectran, 2/3 HMPE
*Ultra Cam* 56% Vectran and 44% HMPE (what ever this is)


*452X Bowstring* 67% SK75 Dyneema®, 33% Vectran
*Trophy* is 452X blended with GORE


Non Blended
*8190*
• H.M.P.E.- Made from DSM's SK90 Dyneema® •GORE added

*8125G Bowstring*
92% SK75 Dyneema®, 8% GORE TM

*Astro Flight*
100% HMPE
* XS2*
100%HMPE


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

look up my brotha:hello2:



tuckarch said:


> Ultra cam is blended, I went today to the guys house who taught me how to make strings back in 95.. He still uses ultra cam, and it appears to be blended with a large amount of vectran. Not sure what the ratio is, may be on brownells webpage.. but it's definitely not comparable to 8195... because 8195 is non blended..


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## tuckarch (Sep 19, 2002)

Holy crap thats alot of vectran!!


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## Barn Burner2 (May 25, 2011)

dwagoner said:


> to add from my memory, Brownell states that Astro and XS2 are the exact same material, but XS2 obviously thinner strands.
> 
> 452x - excel are supposed to be pretty much same makeup
> 
> But like said Brownell never tells what their materials are actually, Ive done some research myself and i know where it comes from so..........wont catch me building with it even if brownell gave me 10K dollars worth of every color in every material. Sorry buy yes im biased based on what i know, and others know also.


Brownell is a Awesome company to deal with, and they have grate products, most of us dont care what there product is made up of, so long as it works and there customer serves stays where it is. if your so well informed as to where the yarns are made, and your not buying stuff from brownell because of it, you mite find you will be building strings out of Rope, i mite be wrong, but i think the yarn that BCY uses mite be IMPORTED AS WELL...., Just Like most of the Clothes we where... But all this is IMOP, I use Bothe company's products, I have nothing bad to say about either company, they are all good people to deal with.

Mike


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## Barn Burner Strings (Sep 10, 2011)

dwagoner said:


> to add from my memory, Brownell states that Astro and XS2 are the exact same material, but XS2 obviously thinner strands.
> 
> 452x - excel are supposed to be pretty much same makeup
> 
> But like said Brownell never tells what their materials are actually, Ive done some research myself and i know where it comes from so..........wont catch me building with it even if brownell gave me 10K dollars worth of every color in every material. Sorry buy yes im biased based on what i know, and others know also.


I'm going to have to agree with Mike on this one. I have been using Brownell (XS2) pretty heavily for the past year and regardless of whats in it, it works. As far as customer service goes, they are one of the best. Maybe you had an issue with some material or a employee but I see no reason that they are any less of a company then BCY. I have used many BCY products and still do. I think they are just as good as a company as Brownell. As for not using them for the fact that they are using imported material, well I don't know what to say about that but I was told by a very creditable source that they are both imported. So if that's the reason you have a beef with them then so be it, but its kinda immature to bash a company like that. Granted we all want to buy American made products but unfortunately it really cant be done.


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## Big LB (Dec 14, 2007)

What are you guys using for traditional bows that have Fast Flight string compatibility.....and does this mean I can use all modern materials on it?
This bow manufacturer sells his stuff with a 14 strand Fast Flight Plus string.....I don't use Brownell so what could I use in BCY products?
I have all 452X and a bunch of B500-55 and a bit of 8125?


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

MidwestCustom said:


> Brownell is a Awesome company to deal with, and they have grate products, most of us dont care what there product is made up of, so long as it works and there customer serves stays where it is. if your so well informed as to where the yarns are made, and your not buying stuff from brownell because of it, you mite find you will be building strings out of Rope, i mite be wrong, but i think the yarn that BCY uses mite be IMPORTED AS WELL...., Just Like most of the Clothes we where... But all this is IMOP, I use Bothe company's products, I have nothing bad to say about either company, they are all good people to deal with.
> 
> Mike


your entitled to your opinion but dont try and speak for everyone and say that "most" people dont care where it comes from, actually alot more than you think do want to know what the material is made of, thats why bcy states where their stuff comes from, registered names so they proudly state what it is so its not some "HMPE" guessing game. I never said anything about where the materials come from but the actual brand, name, grade, and what company it comes from. Did i say anything about imported or not????? NOPE...

Ive dealt with brownell and they are horrible, and the fact that they just keep it all some super secret and that their material is not up to par with me is why i dont, and wont use it, i have before and quite frankly it sucked......BUT if you do some research ive also stated i did not like a bcy product, so im not some paid person to boot bcy products, i use what i like and what works for me also. So whoever wants to use whichever is fine with me, but ill gladly state my dislike for a product no problem if i dont like it, and when one of their employees thinks hes all that and wants to make insults and threats to me well thats just the icing on the cake for me. Hence the statement that i wouldnt use their string material even if it were free..............SORRY Brownell.........

To each his own, i was just stating my opinion just like you are. but you just read into it a little more than what was actually said.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Big LB said:


> What are you guys using for traditional bows that have Fast Flight string compatibility.....and does this mean I can use all modern materials on it?
> This bow manufacturer sells his stuff with a 14 strand Fast Flight Plus string.....I don't use Brownell so what could I use in BCY products?
> I have all 452X and a bunch of B500-55 and a bit of 8125?


8125 - D97 is fine for fast flight compatable, but if not protected limbs then you should stick with dacron material.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Barn Burner said:


> I'm going to have to agree with Mike on this one. I have been using Brownell (XS2) pretty heavily for the past year and regardless of whats in it, it works. As far as customer service goes, they are one of the best. Maybe you had an issue with some material or a employee but I see no reason that they are any less of a company then BCY. I have used many BCY products and still do. I think they are just as good as a company as Brownell. As for not using them for the fact that they are using imported material, well I don't know what to say about that but I was told by a very creditable source that they are both imported. So if that's the reason you have a beef with them then so be it, but its kinda immature to bash a company like that. Granted we all want to buy American made products but unfortunately it really cant be done.


re-read what i wrote, i guess that both you and mike assumed i was stating WHERE the material came from and thats not what i said, i said WHAT the material is. So dont go calling someone immature to say what they think about a company, cus i definitely wont hold back what i think about a company or a product that i personally dont like, nothing abnormal about that??? alot of people speak their mind based on experiences.

I know plenty of people using brownell and loving it....but thats not what I said. I know its in use and upon many happy customers of numerous string makers, but thats irrelevant to what i stated, which is my personal experiences with the people and the string material that brownell makes. I have a few good friends that use it pretty much exclusively and love it. Thats how archery is, plenty of people like something and others dont. Thats how it goes.........


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## Barn Burner Strings (Sep 10, 2011)

Well if YOU RE READ my post I said I don't know if you had a problem with an employee or material. I didn't just say you don't like them because they are using imported material. Your first post makes it sound like you are specifically talking about a material issue or concern. So we can only go by the way we interpret what you write, and it came off a little harsh. The problem I have with all of this is that the OP asked for a compassion of materials between the two companies. He in no way asked for your opinion on either company. You took it upon yourself to enlighten us on your distaste for Brownell. If he would have asked for a review of the company or your opinion on the company, ok I understand. But all to many times people come one here and spout their opinion like it was asked for and like it means something to anyone. And if your in the know why don't you educate us on the problem with where it comes from.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Barn Burner said:


> I'm going to have to agree with Mike on this one. I have been using Brownell (XS2) pretty heavily for the past year and regardless of whats in it, it works. As far as customer service goes, they are one of the best. Maybe you had an issue with some material or a employee but I see no reason that they are any less of a company then BCY. I have used many BCY products and still do. I think they are just as good as a company as Brownell. As for not using them for the fact that they are using imported material, well I don't know what to say about that but I was told by a very creditable source that they are both imported. So if that's the reason you have a beef with them then so be it, but its kinda immature to bash a company like that. Granted we all want to buy American made products but unfortunately it really cant be done.


HMMMM lets re-read what you did post.......your talking about imported and american made products, which i said NOTHING about, what i said was WHAT the mateial is made of.



Barn Burner said:


> Well if YOU RE READ my post I said I don't know if you had a problem with an employee or material. I didn't just say you don't like them because they are using imported material. Your first post makes it sound like you are specifically talking about a material issue or concern. So we can only go by the way we interpret what you write, and it came off a little harsh. The problem I have with all of this is that the OP asked for a compassion of materials between the two companies. He in no way asked for your opinion on either company. You took it upon yourself to enlighten us on your distaste for Brownell. If he would have asked for a review of the company or your opinion on the company, ok I understand. But all to many times people come one here and spout their opinion like it was asked for and like it means something to anyone. And if your in the know why don't you educate us on the problem with where it comes from.


yes im harsh, sorry if you dont like it....... but you were the one throwing out insults so whats your problem????? you guys act like i insulted someone that uses brownell??? i guess that would be your problem as i made a plain statement not geared to who uses it but about the company and how they present it. do some research, ill lay it out for ya though, YES theres BCY products i dont like and WONT use either D10 and i really dont like using 62xs, I DO use brownell diamondback. AND when BCY reads this they will know who said this and im sure next time i talk with Bob on the phone hes gonna bring it up.... so its not like im against the whole company, i use what i like and thats pretty simple

SO dont interpret what i wrote, its there plain and simple but you have decided to take it personally and constrew it in some other way that what i plainly typed out. So here it is again for you to read word for word and not turn it upside down AGAIN...



dwagoner said:


> But like said Brownell never tells what their materials are actually, Ive done some research myself and i know where it comes from so..........wont catch me building with it even if brownell gave me 10K dollars worth of every color in every material. Sorry buy yes im biased based on what i know, and others know also.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

"where it comes from", meaning what company. and its still a mystery of what the product trully is, put that together and you get what i said. Not my problem that you intrepret that as what country it comes from, that is not what i said but how you interpret it. Thats what the OP asked for "comparison of the two companies products" Kinda hard to compare something thats a mystery now isnt it???? When were you gonna post up some comparisons??? So that means i wont use it period, even if free, and i could care less who uses it, ive never said anything negative to anyone that uses brownell string material

. NOW ive had enough of your insults for what i voiced my opinion on, I dont care if you like what i said. its time for you to stop it......


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## bluerocker (Dec 24, 2009)

Well you've done your research what did you find?? And where were you Insulted in this thread? You hijacked this thread and someone called you out, now your feelings are hurt and your going to go tell the teacher or mods. I don't now exactly how bcy compares to brownell, I do know there both great companys and will still be around for years to come.


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## Big LB (Dec 14, 2007)

This thread got just useless real fast.....awesome.


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## Barn Burner2 (May 25, 2011)

Dwagner i see you use Hoyt bows, Im surprised, Because Brownell is all Hoyt Uses...., And i dont see where matt was insulting you in any way, the fact is, it seems like you surf on here (AT) looking for a fight, and i think matt gave you one, that said i think we all need to drop it,

Mike


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

HAHA Matt gave me a fight LOL nah not at all. you two got on here and just decided to pick apart what i said and im the one thats surfing for a fight LOL nice try mike and matt, you guys dont bother me one bit. you guys are the ones that got sour about what i posted because you like the material, and i posted that i could care less who uses it, that has nothing to do with anything i even said, that was you two that decided to pick the fight.

you didnt need to try and defend brownell astro/xs2 as you so chose to, you very well both could have added your input on comparison of the materials, WAIT you cant because the both of you have no clue what material it is so there is no way to compare them. its all HMPE LOL

Do you 2 have any idea that a public forum is for posting up peoples opinions?? Which is what 90% of every thread on here, its someones personal opinion. I dont care if you like my opinion on something just as i dont really care about yours on stuff. Thats why people post up their opinions or suggestions/help to people on a public forum, not to nit pick apart what someone says just because they dont like it, its your right to agree to disagree just like it is mine.


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## Big LB (Dec 14, 2007)

MidwestCustom said:


> Dwagner i see you use Hoyt bows, Im surprised, Because Brownell is all Hoyt Uses...., And i dont see where matt was insulting you in any way, the fact is, it seems like you surf on here (AT) looking for a fight, and i think matt gave you one, that said i think we all need to drop it,
> 
> Mike


Mike, if you watch the new Pro-Comp Elite video on the Hoyt web-site.....Kevin Wilkey talks through the features of this new bow and says that they come standard equipped with Fuse custom strings made from BCY "Premium" material. FYI


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

bluerocker said:


> Well you've done your research what did you find?? And where were you Insulted in this thread? You hijacked this thread and someone called you out, now your feelings are hurt and your going to go tell the teacher or mods. I don't now exactly how bcy compares to brownell, I do know there both great companys and will still be around for years to come.


Very nice hijack yourself, if you have no input to what the OP asked about then why would you come here to post this??? Thanks


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## jchristian (Mar 8, 2011)

Wow!

To the OP, look at both companies websites and compare the different string material. You may not find WHAT brand of fiber is used on one of the sites but you can get a good feel for what the blends are. I use and like both companies products. Both companies products work well when built correctly.

Sorry if I didn't answer your original question.....feel free to pm me and we can discuss it in depth.


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## Barn Burner2 (May 25, 2011)

Big LB said:


> Mike, if you watch the new Pro-Comp Elite video on the Hoyt web-site.....Kevin Wilkey talks through the features of this new bow and says that they come standard equipped with Fuse custom strings made from BCY "Premium" material. FYI


thats true, its a new thing this year, Tom PM me yesterday, 
Thanks


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Vectran when used in the blend with Dyneema (or HMPE) can be very effective in stabilizing a material. The problem with Vectran is it is brittle. I have a spool of 100% Vectran that was given to me over 10 years ago. Not understanding the nature of this material I decided it would be a good idea to make some cables out of it. About 500 arrows in the Vectran cable broke at the tightest bend and created quite an adventure. Not understanding that the cable was the issue (thought arrow failed) I made another cable and about 500 shots in another adventure. So... as you may guess I'm not a big fan of high ratios of Vectran. The 66%/33% blends have proven to be quite effective and safe but personally I stay away from products with higher ratios of Vectran.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ex-wolverine said:


> As you can see , big difference between some of the products..blended vs non blended
> 
> Blended products
> *Xcel*- 1/3 Vectran, 2/3 HMPE
> ...


Tom has pretty much hit the nail on the head with this response.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

LB, my bet is you could contact Roger at BCY and he could help with the comparison. I haven't delt with Brownell in many years--my last contact with a CSR there left me not caring if I ever delt with them again. Besides that, BCY has never given me a reason to look elsewhere.



> What are you guys using for traditional bows that have Fast Flight string compatibility.....and does this mean I can use all modern materials on it?


Traditional bowstrings are my mainstay. I use a lot of Dynaflight '97 and 8125G, but getting a lot of orders for 8190 since it came out. As long as the string is made properly, you can use any modern material on a bow that is rated as "Fast Flight Compatible". Some custom bowyers have specifics you have to follow to meet warranty requirements--usually padded loops on flemish strings.



> This bow manufacturer sells his stuff with a 14 strand Fast Flight Plus string.....I don't use Brownell so what could I use in BCY products?


Not sure what would be comparable in diameter. Even if you were using the same material, if the archer is good enough to shoot the difference then they will have to do some re-tuning. If they aren't good enough to shoot the difference, it won't matter.




> I have all 452X and a bunch of B500-55 and a bit of 8125?


452X or 8125 will work fine. I like 8125--usually 12-14 strands, unless the customer specifies something different.


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