# Why do guys use chairs at Shoots?



## whitetail101 (Aug 10, 2007)

Attend enough 3D shoots and you will certainly see the reason for the chairs.

At the National level shoots, there can be as much as a 10 to 12 minute wait for your next target, the chair is a neccessity at this point. I myself have started using one, found it very convient when waiting for my next target at an IBO shoot or the R-100

I have not noticed anyone shooting from one, but I'm sure a few probably do to practice for hunting season.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Times 2. Still, I don't use one.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

If you've ever shot a 20 target, 5 man, full range team shoot... a chair or stool is a wonderful thing. 

The team shoot at the Paris ASA lasted about 5 hours, and I didn't bother taking one. 3 hours later, I would have given a $100 for one

To each, his own. 

But I personally have been way too rough and abusive on my legs and feet in the past(thanks to Uncle Sam), and another 12 years as a meatcutter, to be able to tollerate, or want to stand for hours at a time.


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## Great White (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks guys.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I use on but don't find myself in it a bunch but when I do want it, it's great to have. I used it to just take the weight off my feet every once in a while throughout the course. I could get away without it but I also have a bunch of Stuff in mine as well. Box with nocks and tools and other odds and ends that can be repaired or replaced on range instead of waiting to get home to do minor repairs.


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## bigcountry24 (May 11, 2007)

Great White said:


> I'm new to 3D and do not go to Shoots but I noticed that some use chairs. Why is this. I'm thinking it might be for the wait, but do people shoot from them and if they do why?


I do not know about people that shoot from there chair or why they are doing so unless it was a bow hunters shoot and had to.I have my chair for many reasons, sitting, holding tools for break downs water and food for the long days on the range.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

I rarely if ever sit in mine, but I tote it anyway. I carry all my trail mix, water, water flavoring packs, nocks, tools, loop rope, serving thread, spare releases, etc in my stool.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

reylamb said:


> I rarely if ever sit in mine, but I tote it anyway. I carry all my trail mix, water, water flavoring packs, nocks, tools, loop rope, serving thread, spare releases, etc in my stool.


All of that... well except for the rarely sitting in it... I use mine to rest my fat tired old butt...:wink: in between shots


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

JAVI said:


> All of that... well except for the rarely sitting in it... I use mine to rest my fat tired old butt...:wink: in between shots


I would if I stayed at my stake long enough between shots:tongue:If I have to sit around that long I go find another group to aggrevate:wink:


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

Personally I'd like to see chairs outlawed. If Casey Martin can't ride a golf cart, then archers shouldn't get chairs. Just my opinion cause 3-d isn't just about shooting, its about dealing with the rigors of the weather and rough terrain and maintaining high level shooting performance despite the fatigue.


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## DBiggers (Nov 17, 2006)

Slippy Field said:


> Personally I'd like to see chairs outlawed. If Casey Martin can't ride a golf cart, then archers shouldn't get chairs. Just my opinion cause 3-d isn't just about shooting, its about dealing with the rigors of the weather and rough terrain and maintaining high level shooting performance despite the fatigue.


Well that may be just a little over board. I'am not sure who Casey Martin is but you know the old saying, "if you let one do it, then you have to let them all do it" The average ASA shoot has between 900 to 1400 people (just a guess) so it would be unrealistic to allow 1400 golf carts out on an archery range. So the chairs are definetly a necessary evil for most or there would'nt be so many. I know mine has saved me from alot of painful standing and waiting at the big shoots. So outlaw them, absolutely "NOT" My .02 cents. :tongue:


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## KCC (Aug 27, 2007)

*Fatigue*

I started using one this year and it has made a difference. In the past after shooting a 30 target course my legs were really tired, may be from multiple knee operations from Uncle Sam making me jump out of perfectly good airplanes , anyway when I started using one my fatigue level decreased and my shot performance increased. I try to sit for a minute or two between targets and I can see a real improvement in my scores. A large part of archery is having a good base and when you have tired legs your base is not as strong as it should be. I view a chair now as another part of my 3-D toolbag.


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## rocket83 (Dec 9, 2007)

*no way*

I use mine at every target maybe were just slow but why not rest a little?since I started using one my scores went up


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

I'm buying one to use for my field archery. No one uses them for field so maybe I'll start a trend. We shot 28 targets (112 arrows) plus 14 animal targets (14 arrows) on a hilly range in Watkins Glen this past weekend at the Mid-Atlantic sectional. There wasn't a single place to sit and my legs almost stopped working after 7 hours of standing. We carry the same stuff as the 3D guys too except it's all hanging from our waist adding to the problem. I may get laughed at but I'll just look up at them and .
Joe B.


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Yep, Chairs rule.............I shot a Pro am that we were on stake at like 11 and didn't finish til 5 pm................... I was soooooooo glad I had my chair. 


On another note for those of you at the Paris ASA pro am will know what I am talking about. On Saturday morning they called in an ambulance because an older gentleman had dislocated his hip. He went to the hospital had it popped back in. Got some pain pills and came back. He was in my group. He could barely walk. He used my stool both days to sit and relax that hip.


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## Archer 1 (Feb 10, 2005)

I rarely sit on mine but would never go back to a quiver.If you have ever been at a long shoot and when you take your hip quiver off,you feel about 50 lbs lighter,you will know what I mean.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Slippy Field said:


> Personally I'd like to see chairs outlawed. If Casey Martin can't ride a golf cart, then archers shouldn't get chairs. Just my opinion cause 3-d isn't just about shooting, its about dealing with the rigors of the weather and rough terrain and maintaining high level shooting performance despite the fatigue.


 Alot of talk for someone that only shoots from behind a computer screen.:wink:


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Casey Martin is a totally different subject. Carts are not allowed on the PGA tour and asked for an exemption to have one. I am not saying the PGA was right or wrong for denying the request. AS for chairs on the shoot circuits we all walk and if someone wants to carry a chair and sit on it so what. Of course you don't need a chair to sit down on a 3D course or a golf course it is just a little easier on the pants.


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## FoggDogg (Jul 9, 2002)

I also rarely sit on mine, but it carries everything but the kitchen sink. Arrows, tools, snacks, water, ThermaCell and the list goes on and on. I like to lay my bow on it when it's really muddy also, instead of getting out my stand. I'll end up sitting on it a couple times during a shoot but that's about it. I've taken mine to indoor spot shoots, outdoor spot shoots & field shoots too. I get looks from those guys, but I don't care. It's kind of my "wooby", (security blanket). I never leave home w/o it.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

I put it this way.

At a four hour shoot, would I rather: 

a. Carry 5 lbs asymetrically off my hip 100% of the time and worry about where to put my bow when I pull arrows (the 'pod's scratch your limbs and put the cam in the dirt), and snag every bush along the trail, twisting my bad back to avoid doing so...

b. Carry 6 lbs on either shoulder or my hand, 50% of the time, and have a place to sit for a long wait, otherwise a place to put a bow off of the ground, with a bit more volume for storing shooting essentials..

Now, for indoor shoots that where they get a little out of hand and in the way..


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## wlw723 (Feb 10, 2008)

TO SLOW OTHER SHOOTERS DOWN < I have no idea why anyone would want to lug around extra weight with them, I shoot every weekend and have never NEEDED a chair :darkbeer: even at a shoot w/ 235 shooters, there is no reason for any MAN to have a purse w/ a seat on it, and the chair shooters are usually the ones holding people up.(and yes that is profiling)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I don't have a problem if a person wants to carry a chair OUTDOORS...it is them that has to lug it around...but...there is ONE thing they'd better NOT do with it...and that is...put it so close to the shooting stake that it becomes a tripping hazard for me...>If I trip over the blamed thing, then it will receive field goal treatment just like a football.

Now, INDOORS...there is absolutely NO NEED FOR A CHAIR or Stool that is holding a person's arrows NEAR THAT SHOOTING LINE...they ARE a hazard near the shooting line....and someone will turn around to leave the line and trip over it, or cause a commotion.

Keep the blamed things OFF THE LINE INDOORS!

The one thing that should, IMHO, be done away with...the use of umbrellas for the purpose of blocking the wind for the shooter. Use 'em for shade between shots, fine, use them for shading so an archer can see thru their peep...fine....but NOT for BLOCKING THE WIND for the shooter's bow arm...that is BULL HOCKEY, IMHO...and NOBODY will ever get me to back down from this opinion. I won't use an umbie, even if windier than all get out;;;if asked, I'll turn it down. If asked to HOLD an umbie to block the wind for the shooter...DON'T ASK ME....it won't happen.

If asked to hold the umbie so a shooter can see thru his/her scope or peep...I'll try my shooting cap first...then, if it won't get it dun...then I'd hold the umbie to give the shooter a safe shot to the target so that they can see. BUT NOT TO BLOCK THE WIND FOR THEIR BOWARM.

Outdoors is outdoors, and if it is windy...learn to shoot IN THE WIND.

If you all want to carry a chair and all the excess baggage...go right ahead...but keep that sucker the heck out of the way so nobody trips over it.

field14


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## keb73 (Oct 15, 2003)

reylamb said:


> I rarely if ever sit in mine, but I tote it anyway. I carry all my trail mix, water, water flavoring packs, nocks, tools, loop rope, serving thread, spare releases, etc in my stool.


Right on..That's what I use mine for...Storage for my snacks and water..Oh..and to carry my arrows...


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## jwolfe78 (Mar 10, 2006)

You have to carry your chewie.


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## LonglineCharlie (Jan 28, 2007)

*3D Chairs*

This is to all of you youngsters who have been blessed with good knees and a good back. Some of us have bad backs and bad knees and lots of other bad parts but still enjoy shooting Outdoor 3D. Please don't force us to do hours of misery just to enjoy this great sport. There are limits to the pain we can handle and I have reached mine. I can no longer walk and can no longer shoot outdoor 3D. I still shoot indoor 3D but have to shoot from a chair as i cannot stand for more than a few seconds at a time. 
Count your blessings fellas as it will happen to you too unless you are one of the very lucky ones.
LonglineCharlie


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

the very first 3D shoot I ever went to was a ASA pro am in TN one year, I thought guys were crazy carring around these chairs. Well a few hours later and 95 degrees I wished I had one, and I have ever since that.


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## sharptrenton (Jul 8, 2006)

I was shooting the ASA Pro-Am in Kentucky and I was glad I had my chair. I was shooting the open-c class and we were supposed to start our second range at 3 o'clock but didn't get to start until 4:30 and it was really hot and humid. I was really glad I had a place to sit and relax until we started. At local shoots I don't see the need for a chair but at the national level I will always have mine.


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

plus I basically carry a small archery shop in my chair. Tools, releases, rain gear, and snacks and drinks.


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## Rimfire Kid (Jun 3, 2006)

*Chairs...*

Use it if ya got it! I don't use one personally, but see where it could be very handy. I shot a 3D a couple months that I had no business attending...just got off of graveyard, felt like I could have feel aslepp standing up a couple times...lol. Would've paid good money to rent someone's chair that day!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

wlw723 said:


> TO SLOW OTHER SHOOTERS DOWN < I have no idea why anyone would want to lug around extra weight with them, I shoot every weekend and have never NEEDED a chair :darkbeer: even at a shoot w/ 235 shooters, there is no reason for any MAN to have a purse w/ a seat on it, and the chair shooters are usually the ones holding people up.(and yes that is profiling)


Hmm...I think I'd take exception to that point of view. I don't carry anything in my chair that I don't carry when shooting smaller shoots. 235? That's a lot for a local shoot, but at Bedford there were close to 1,000 and I used my chair. At the ASA Pro Ams you'll run into over 1,000 shooters. and I'll use my chair...and I've been held up by groups who don't carry chairs but do hold folks up. That's when I use my chair.


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## FoggDogg (Jul 9, 2002)

field14 said:


> I don't have a problem if a person wants to carry a chair OUTDOORS...it is them that has to lug it around...but...there is ONE thing they'd better NOT do with it...and that is...put it so close to the shooting stake that it becomes a tripping hazard for me...>If I trip over the blamed thing, then it will receive field goal treatment just like a football.
> 
> Now, INDOORS...there is absolutely NO NEED FOR A CHAIR or Stool that is holding a person's arrows NEAR THAT SHOOTING LINE...they ARE a hazard near the shooting line....and someone will turn around to leave the line and trip over it, or cause a commotion.
> 
> Keep the blamed things OFF THE LINE INDOORS!




I guess I should clarify one thing...when I said I've taken mine to indoor shoots, it's been just that. Taken, not used. I've seen a couple other guys use them indoors, and I though it was ridiculous. I take mine because I carry extra parts and tools in it. There's no room to use it on the line. It's crazy and inconsiderate to others. Now, I also don't put it near the shooting stake at 3-D shoots. It's out of everyone's way for just that reason. Now, make no mistake about this either...this clarification was not put here because I'm scared of Field 14.  And for the record Tom, you or any NFL kicker couldn't move my stool by kicking it. There's too much in there. :wink:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Just trying to make the point that INDOORS it is absolutely unnecessary to stick your stool/chair next to you on the shooting line, or back behind you...simply to hold your arrows for you. There isn't hardly enough room for the person...normally one has to turn their quivers slightly to keep from jabbing someone with your arrows...let alone have an obtrusive unneeded stool in the way to trip over or cause problems for those around you.

I would suggest that you take stock of what all you carry in your "mini-archery shops" and start culling it out. You are going to find that you don't NEED all that "stuff" cuz you don't ever USE it.

As you take inventory of this stuff....ask one simple question: "Have I ever USED this out on the range?" When the answer is no, cull it out and lighten the load. Afterall, that spare stuff is for YOU...not every archer out on the course.

Think about it....if your bow is in such sad shape you can't trust it for 40 shots...then you aren't taking care of it. I've seen 3-Ders, for a 30 shot tournament, let alone 40, carry enough spare stuff to rebuild 3 dozen arrows, and rebuild their bows twice or three times over...and for what?

How many times has your BOW BLEW UP while out on the range? You have 15 minutes to fix it...if it blew up on you...unless you have things marked really well (FEW shooters even know where their d-loop is in relation to the peep site or arrow rest), you ain't gonna rebuild things anyways. If your d-loop breaks...then you haven't practiced PRO-ACTIVE archery by keeping your equipment in tip-top shape.

Think about it and how ludicrous it is to carry a small archery shop with you.

A spare release, yes. ONE spare d-loop (pre-cut and pre-burned to length...be proactive), yes. Nocking point pliers, yes (I use mine to pull off busted nocks). Dozen extra nocks (sorted and tested), yes. Allen Wrench set, yes. Small quantity of spare set screws, yes. And that's about it folks...Sure don't need a big "fanny pack" or a big stuffed pouch on a portable stool.
Oh, and water and energy bars, yes....32 oz of water and two energy bars. If I can ride 75 miles on 64 oz of water and 2 energy bars on the hot asphalt...then I'm sure not going to dehydrate on a 3-D course of 30 or 40 shots....good grief, on the archery range, I'm not expending THAT many calories....but of course...some of you sure TAKE IN much more than you expend...probably out of boredom, I guess...hahahaha

Spare string and cables..absolutely NOT. I don't use techno-toys, since they aren't necessary, IMHO. I carry binocs, but sure don't need a 3-Ders "cool stool" to carry them, haha.

Anyways....just think this through and how much that added weight and junk COST YOU in energy, etc to carry it an never USE it. If you are proactive with your equipment...you will NEVER USE all the extra junk...so don't carry it. It isn't a contest to see who can pack the most useless stuff with them...it is an archery PROWESS event...not a rebuilding seminar.

field14


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

field14 said:


> Just trying to make the point that INDOORS it is absolutely unnecessary to stick your stool/chair next to you on the shooting line, or back behind you...simply to hold your arrows for you. There isn't hardly enough room for the person...normally one has to turn their quivers slightly to keep from jabbing someone with your arrows...let alone have an obtrusive unneeded stool in the way to trip over or cause problems for those around you.
> 
> I would suggest that you take stock of what all you carry in your "mini-archery shops" and start culling it out. You are going to find that you don't NEED all that "stuff" cuz you don't ever USE it.
> 
> ...


Tom,
Even if I carried it empty it would be worth it. Seven hours of walking the Presidential range without a chance to sit down is just too much to ask
of the Senior and Master Senior archers. As long as you're considerate of the other guys I don't think there are any down sides (except the side that hits the chair between targets). You've shot on "the hill" so you understand what it's like. P.S. - I shot a 504 on Sat., worst ever, and a 548 on Sun. When you're over 70 you never know who'le show up to shoot on any given day.
Joe B.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

zenarch said:


> Tom,
> Even if I carried it empty it would be worth it. Seven hours of walking the Presidential range without a chance to sit down is just too much to ask
> of the Senior and Master Senior archers. As long as you're considerate of the other guys I don't think there are any down sides (except the side that hits the chair between targets). You've shot on "the hill" so you understand what it's like. P.S. - I shot a 504 on Sat., worst ever, and a 548 on Sun. When you're over 70 you never know who'le show up to shoot on any given day.
> Joe B.


That's what I'm basically saying, Joe....Why carry it full of extra weight and things you won't be using? Lighten up the load and hassle.

WHAT? You said SEVEN, SIETE, SEPT..7 HOURS to shoot 28 field? What on earth is going on? Too many techno-toys or what? Egads, and we thought that 5 hours was too much back when I lived in NY state and shot the Presidential with you guys...more than once...and the NJ, Connecticut, New York, etc.

SEVEN HOURS? THAT is ridiculous...and perhaps some "clamps" need to be put onto this time thing?

I understand the age thing, too, Joe....I'm a lot younger than you, and I also don't know which "fieldman" is showing up from day to day....and sometimes from shot to shot, hahahaha.

That 548...on the PRESIDENTIAL even, is super impressive...I was wondering what happened to your score on Saturday...and not at all surprised by the 548 on Sunday! YOU can shoot, Joe, and always have been able to.

I just think that some of the "newbies" out there are simply overdoing it with the extra un-needed items they flock onto the course with. The "more is better" syndrome is alive and well in the "stool & chair, & treats" world...TOO MUCH MORE, however is NOT better...but a hassle.

I keep myself in pretty good shape...but SEVEN HOURS on 28 targets....might have to re-think this 'stool carrying thing' again...but I'm like you...carry it empty or as light as possible...with only NEEDED items in it. BUT...it will NEVER replace my quiver....THAT is needed on the line, at the stake, and right where a flick of my wrist gets the next shot out of the quiver and loaded without a lot of twisting, turning, and gyrations. FIELD shooters shoot ONE at a time...but have to do the duplication...FOUR TIMES per target....and not have 20 minutes between each shot.

field14:tongue::wink:


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## Backlash (Feb 18, 2008)

I started carring a chair due to barking dogs and a sore lower back I get from standing. I am almost 60 years old and enjoy the shoots. 
To you young bucks who think we are a bunch of sissys, you just wait until you get older and/or have knee, feet or back problems, then we will listen to your tune.


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## whitetail234 (Sep 19, 2005)

Backlash said:


> I started carring a chair due to barking dogs and a sore lower back I get from standing. I am almost 60 years old and enjoy the shoots.
> To you young bucks who think we are a bunch of sissys, you just wait until you get older and/or have knee, feet or back problems, then we will listen to your tune.


Im 18, and let me tell you, I love my chair. I just got back from a shoot that took us 4 1/2 hours to shoot a 20 target range. Im glad I had my chair. There is a big difference between standing around and being able to sit down and rest.


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## rocket83 (Dec 9, 2007)

*chairs*

im also young (25) and wouldnt trade my chair for anything.I was at the pro/am last weekend in IL and had offers to sell it to a guy that morning, When the afternoon round came around he had his own.noone seems to complain about them on the range so I dont think theyre in the way as long as they are away from the stake.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

Tom,
We shot 14 animals after the 28 field with no break, thus the 7 hours. I started on #1 so it was down to the bottom and back up 3 times. The 548 was the next day on NJ but it was still a thrill for me. Blew a 50 by dropping 3 points on the last 2 targets. One at 23 and both the 44 and 41 stakes on the 53 walk-up. such is life.
I'll post a thread on my trial run with the stool after the New Jersy "Bigfoot" shoot at Black Night Bowmen in Jersey.
Joe B.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Bottomline*

My 3d rounds require three hours on the course. If Im able to rest and sit. I shoot better. Nathan Brooks was one of the first shooters I ever saw use a chair. He said it made good sense to keep the legs fresh.
DB


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## DBiggers (Nov 17, 2006)

field14 said:


> Just trying to make the point that INDOORS it is absolutely unnecessary to stick your stool/chair next to you on the shooting line, or back behind you...simply to hold your arrows for you. There isn't hardly enough room for the person...normally one has to turn their quivers slightly to keep from jabbing someone with your arrows...let alone have an obtrusive unneeded stool in the way to trip over or cause problems for those around you.
> 
> I would suggest that you take stock of what all you carry in your "mini-archery shops" and start culling it out. You are going to find that you don't NEED all that "stuff" cuz you don't ever USE it.
> 
> ...


Dang field14, i guess you've never heard of Mr. Murphy. His law states, that as soon as you leave an item behind that you have never used before or that you assume you'll never ever use, is the very moment that his law dictates that the need for said item will rear its ugly head. It never fails, thus saith Murphy's Law. So i along with alot of others believe that it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Considering the damages done by a failure, of which MOST can be prevented with proactive archery...and considering you only have 15 minutes to make a repair in the event of said failure.....

Why bother carrying all the superflous stuff you will NEVER use anyways...most people, even if they had it with them, haven't practiced PROACTIVE archery...and couldn't duplicate the original setup anyways...

MOST people don't know their settings, and since they haven't got things marked down....or marked on...duplication is impossible.

So, IMHO, it is a waste of weight, time, and energy....besides....Proactive archery also calls for PREVENTIVE maintenance...so, if you practice the two "'P's"...you don't and won't need that stuff, and you'll keep Murphy at bay anyways.

field14


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

I carry a stool cause I have had back surgery and it helps the back feel better if I can sit and rest. It sucks to carry something else but it sure does come in handy when it takes 4 1/2 hours to shoot 20 targets.

Everyone has there own reason for carrying or not carrying a stool, to each his own. Just shoot and have fun, that's what it's all about anyways!!!


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## PSE ROGUE (Jan 19, 2008)

Great White said:


> I'm new to 3D and do not go to Shoots but I noticed that some use chairs. Why is this. I'm thinking it might be for the wait, but do people shoot from them and if they do why?


to hold all my junk and for the wait


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## ursonvs (Sep 19, 2003)

It still makes me wonder why anyone would respond to threads like these when they could easily use the damn search button. we talk about this EVERY 3-d season, give it a rest.


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## MoBo Act 4:12 (Mar 29, 2008)

*yep*



Daniel Boone said:


> My 3d rounds require three hours on the course. If Im able to rest and sit. I shoot better. Nathan Brooks was one of the first shooters I ever saw use a chair. He said it made good sense to keep the legs fresh.
> DB




Sounds pretty logical to me!


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## heilman181 (Mar 24, 2006)

treeman65 said:


> Alot of talk for someone that only shoots from behind a computer screen.:wink:


James, Slippy might not like computer chairs either!


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## RxBowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

I shot in St. Joe, MO yesterday and again........ experienced the hills of the range. My stool was left in the back of the truck because I didn't want to carry it but it sure would have been nice on the second half. Waiting to shoot on uneven ground for extended periods make the legs and feet tired.


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

heilman181 said:


> James, Slippy might not like computer chairs either!


I shot 30 targets in the 110% humidity, mud, hills, sun for 3+ hours yesterday. I am fat and out of shape. I got a little tired at the end and my shooting suffered a little, those wheelhouse 8s started becoming linecutter 8s but I can assure you, I never took a seat. If you guys want to sit because of physical limitations or just because you like to rest, thats fine by me, I'd just like to see a separate class for sitters. Maybe we can just lump the sitters into the open class.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

Even being proactive can not always prevent things happening. I shot a practice round sat and the serving on my peep decided it had enough and came unraveled. That doesn't happen everytime or ever if I can remember, but I was able to repair it. Having things there with you so you do not have to call a break down, which btw field in ASA you have 45 mins, is a good thing. Shooting in the humidity and heat of the south means a lil more required in the ways of hydration and keeping the body going. My stool loaded for an ASA event weighs in at about 8lbs or maybe a lil more. That includes an umbrella, arrows, small tool kit for my bow, drinks snacks, towel, and if rain is predicted my frog toggs. When I shoot indoor I bring my stool but it is behind the waiting line for rest. The stool is where all my shooting stuff stays so when I go shoot I grab it my bow case and my bow box that has all I need in case of a major failure. Besides a quiver pulls my britches down. Lol


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Fiber broke this weekend*

Easy fix. Just reached in the chair and fixed it on the spot. No ruined weekend shoot!:wink: Amazing how many times I have fixed someone up on the range. I carry most anything to repair most bows.

DB


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Same here.......... I have loop material, Serving thread, D loop pliers, Fiber optic material, peep kit, Soap for arrows, snacks, water, and camera.


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

hutchies said:


> Same here.......... I have loop material, Serving thread, D loop pliers, Fiber optic material, peep kit, Soap for arrows, snacks, water, and camera.


I carry a press and a chrono and a draw board.


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Really I need to shoot with you. I'll bring all the guys that want me to work on their bows with me too and you can handle them in between targets.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Amazing how technology has "advanced" to the point where today's shooters cannot even trust their equipment to hold together for a 40 arrow tournament!

In over 40 years of competitive shooting, I can count on one hand the number of equipment failures I've had where I even USED the superflous crap I USED TO carry in my quiver....and those were YEARS AGO...BEFORE the advent of all this super-finely sophisticated equipment....

224 shots in one day wasn't uncommon...and now people are gearing up for a "breakdown" when sometimes, there are only 20 shots in a day's outing...

C"mon guys, gimme a break....today's equipment can't be that bad where you gotsta carry a mini archery shop with you around ANY course.

We have surely gotten soft, IMHO....and I think that the majority of the crap people are carrying with them is related to how much room they have in the 3-Der's Cool Stool pouches...and NOT with regard to what is NEEDED.

People today, IMHO, simply don't keep track of their equipment, electing to depend upon spare parts instead of preventive maintenance. They will, for example, knowingly shoot a frayed d-loop...opting to shoot it until it breaks and then worry about replacing it....then, when it happens, they haven't even got the markings down on where to put it, nor the savvy on how to replace it without worrying about anything changing.....little to no prior prevention tactics.....

Same with peep serving...it doesn't just "pop" out of nowhere....Center serving....if it does break...its cuz you flat waited too long to change it or you didn't bother to CHECK IT before the tournament...opting instead to shoot it til it fails and then worry about it.

8 pounds more of garbage to carry around besides your 8 pound bow, your carcass, and the techno-toys....????? Like I said, take stock of how many times you actually USED that stuff....and quit trying to fill the pouch just cuz there is space to fill...and the other guy? Why should YOU carry a mini-shop with you? Unless you want to show off how well you are prepared for...the PREVENTABLE.
Wow ruin a DAY'S shooting? Only 20 or 40 shots for a DAY? 

If the thing will only hold together for part of 20 or 40 shots...then where was your PRE-CHECK of your equipment BEFORE you even started the day? Where is the PREVENTIVE maintenance? Where is your "Proactive Practice"....oh, I got it....it is lost down in the bottom back corner of the pouch under your 3-Der's Cool Stool....and hasn't been USED for like...forever, if at all....

field14


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## rocket83 (Dec 9, 2007)

*maybe*

maybe we carry em cuz we're babies and dont wanna lose the cool stool.I love mine even though it weighs over 11 pounds loaded up.


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## tnwill (Jul 17, 2006)

I carry my chair to all 3d shoots. I have been having some back problems and if I hadn't had my chair this past weekend, the guys shooting with me would have had to drag me to the truck. By the end of the 30 targets, it was all that I could do to stand long enough to shoot. 

If you don't use a chair, fine that is your choice. If you don't carry any spare parts/tools, that is your choice. But for those of us who have both, that is our choice. Next time something breaks while you are on the range, guess who you will be looking for.


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## whoa (Apr 5, 2004)

I use mine because I'm lazy:wink:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*I carry my camera as well*



field14 said:


> Amazing how technology has "advanced" to the point where today's shooters cannot even trust their equipment to hold together for a 40 arrow tournament!
> 
> In over 40 years of competitive shooting, I can count on one hand the number of equipment failures I've had where I even USED the superflous crap I USED TO carry in my quiver....and those were YEARS AGO...BEFORE the advent of all this super-finely sophisticated equipment....
> 
> ...


Mr Murphy shows up for the best pros as well. In most shoots I have seen one pro walk for equipment checks. Chairs make it relaxing to sit down and refresh the legs. Umbrellas are used by most 3ders today. Just not a big issue for me. Actually consider a golf cart type rigg n the future. Saw one at Metropolis and seemd like a good thing to me. Better to have it and not need it than to be without it.
DB


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## RxBowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

Slippy Field said:


> I shot 30 targets in the 110% humidity, mud, hills, sun for 3+ hours yesterday. I am fat and out of shape. I got a little tired at the end and my shooting suffered a little, those wheelhouse 8s started becoming linecutter 8s but I can assure you, I never took a seat. If you guys want to sit because of physical limitations or just because you like to rest, thats fine by me, I'd just like to see a separate class for sitters. Maybe we can just lump the sitters into the open class.


Standing on a slope waiting to shoot for 20 minutes at each target will definitely begin to tire your feet and legs. You can avoid those linecutter 8's and maybe turn them into 10's or 12's by being more rested when you shoot.......especially when the shooting stake is also on a slope and you are trying to stay steady at the shot after already standing for 20 minutes on a slope. I haven't joined the umbrella croud......yet........:wink:......but that stool will be with me at the next shoot. :wink:


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

RxBowhunter said:


> Standing on a slope waiting to shoot for 20 minutes at each target will definitely begin to tire your feet and legs.


I don't doubt that a bit but we have to stop somewhere. The umbrellas bother me too. Dealing with the sun and elements is all part of the experience and those variables are what makes it that much more challenging and this rewarding. Some guy right now is probably trying to develop and air conditioned bubble with a television and an ice chest to shoot out of. 

I must admit, I have used a peep caddie before. But just once and only for about 6 targets or so. :embara:


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Slippy Field said:


> Some guy right now is probably trying to develop and air conditioned bubble with a television and an ice chest to shoot out of.




Damn Slippy.............Where there goes my million $$$$$$ idea down the tubes. Apple will have it patented next week.:wink:


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## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

Why do guys use chairs at Shoots?

mainly to tick off people like Field 14 and slippy:wink:


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Ib4Hoyt said:


> Why do guys use chairs at Shoots?
> 
> mainly to tick off people like Field 14 and slippy:wink:





Yeah.............:wink::wink::wink::wink:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

ursonvs said:


> *It still makes me wonder why anyone would respond to threads like these *when they could easily use the damn search button. we talk about this EVERY 3-d season, give it a rest.


Gotcha, didn't he?!:wink:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Ib4Hoyt said:


> Why do guys use chairs at Shoots?
> 
> mainly to tick off people like Field 14 and slippy:wink:



No skin off my nose...since those using the "crutches" are those that are out of shape, and UNPREPARED, so that when Murphy strikes....it is because they weren't PROACTIVE, KNOWLEDGEABLE about the status of their equipment, and thus unable to even handle the subtle things..cuz they are too busy setting up and taking down their techo-toys, stools, food containers, bar-maids, and whatever other paraphenalia they happen to think they NEED with them..

Amazes me the UNPREPAREDNESS for a 40-shot event. What's more....people at age 50 or 60 or 70 today...are not any OLDER than people at age 50, 60, or 70 were in times past...the problem is...they are LAZIER, more poorly prepared, and PAMPER themselve to all getout.

SHooting OUTDOORS and have to have all this garbage...cuz your widdle legs get tired? Or it is uphill/downhill? Who's fault is it that you wait 20 minutes between each individual SHOT? Call it the one or two-minute rule...and only shooting ONE person at a time at a target....

Call it lack of conditioning....oh, well... Holey moley, next thing they'll want is to cut the number of shots for a 3-d tournament down to only 20 for the entire event....and give 'em TWO or THREE minutes for EACH shot.....TIME won't change....just how many times you have to muster the strength to pull back your bow.....afterall, without a 20 minute rest between shots.....

All the above makes those that ARE prepared...that much better to kick the tails of those lugging all the excess baggage around and trying to see who can carry the most in the smallest amount of space....or "techno-toy density" per se. When you slip and fall, you just fall all the harder, hahaha.

Umbies to block the WIND for the shooter...never in a million years can I accept this...whether or not "most" 3-der's are using them out on the courses or not...it is STUPID and UNNECESSARY....block the sun, or the rain...no problem...but the WIND....nope.

NEVER will I accept someone blocking the wind for me with an umbrella, and NEVER will I hold the umbrella to block the WIND from the bowarm of another shooter...talk about pansies!

Blast away...but if your equipment isn't ready to handle 40 shots, and YOU aren't ready unless you carry every tool and piece of junk beknownst to today's "Shooter" (didn't say ARCHER....there is a differnce) to handle 40 shots, and you cannot shoot in the wind outdoors....then maybe you had better build yourself a self-contained outdoor shooting unit to prevent you from leaving your BARCO LOUNGER....bring along a porta-potty too....

Whichever BAIT of the day you wanna use...go ahead....but use some DUCK OIL too...it keeps the ***T rolling off your back...:wink::tongue:
Oh, but the fun of da baiting and loitering and bantering and "setting up" for the "bite of a lifetime.":wink::tongue:
field14


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

I use a stool. It allows me to carry with me the liquids to keep me hydrated and other items I need to keep my blood sugar level so I can still compeate with a level head. I am not over weight and I coach different sports besides archery..soccer and soft ball and I walk everyday in preparation for an Elk hunt this fall so it isn't a stamina issue.

I am disapointed in your posts Field 14. I guess everyone has their opinions. It is a shame that you want to take away something from me that helps me enjoy the sport. For me it is just a quiver with larger pockets that I carry on my shoulder rather than around my waist. To each their own.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

Grnmtn said:


> I use a stool. It allows me to carry with me the liquids to keep me hydrated and other items I need to keep my blood sugar level so I can still compeate with a level head. I am not over weight and I coach different sports besides archery..soccer and soft ball and I walk everyday in preparation for an Elk hunt this fall so it isn't a stamina issue.
> 
> I am disapointed in your posts Field 14. I guess everyone has their opinions. It is a shame that you want to take away something from me that helps me enjoy the sport. For me it is just a quiver with larger pockets that I carry on my shoulder rather than around my waist. To each their own.


Amen.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

*40 years huh?*



field14 said:


> Amazing how technology has "advanced" to the point where today's shooters cannot even trust their equipment to hold together for a 40 arrow tournament!
> 
> In over 40 years of competitive shooting, I can count on one hand the number of equipment failures I've had where I even USED the superflous crap I USED TO carry in my quiver....and those were YEARS AGO...BEFORE the advent of all this super-finely sophisticated equipment....
> 
> ...


What type of tree branch and string did ya use back then? Opinions are like that one body part I can't talk about on here, you have the type that everyone should follow your way or don't show up. Exactly what I'd expect from an old ca-mudgin like you. Guess when I check it again before I leave I won't make that mistake for the free of someone like you crying at me from behind your computer.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Grnmtn said:


> I use a stool. It allows me to carry with me the liquids to keep me hydrated and other items I need to keep my blood sugar level so I can still compeate with a level head. I am not over weight and I coach different sports besides archery..soccer and soft ball and I walk everyday in preparation for an Elk hunt this fall so it isn't a stamina issue.
> 
> I am disapointed in your posts Field 14. I guess everyone has their opinions. It is a shame _that you want to take away something from me that helps me enjoy the sport_. For me it is just a quiver with larger pockets that I carry on my shoulder rather than around my waist. To each their own.


I didn't profess taking away the STOOL or CHAIR...I simply stated the FACT that probably MOST of the stuff you carry in their simply takes up space....and adds weight for you to lug around "just in case"....If the bow can't be trusted for 40 shots or in ASA....20 shots a day...then the owner has NOT taken care of it or prepared/done the preventive maintenance ahead of time.

Now...I DO profess taking the UMBRELLAS to BLOCK THE WIND away from the shooting line....Fine with me to shade so the person can see the target, or from the downpouring rain...but to block the wind...NEVER, and I will always feel that way about that issue.

Keep the stool/chair...but one shouldn't take a mini=archery shop along and fill it plumb full of stuff that won't be used....I'd rather take that type of garbage out and add a 32 oz bottle full of WATER or POWERADE...and get rid of the archery shop items that have NEVER been used.

IF I were to carry a stool or chair....it certainly would NOT have a mini-shop in it...but the USEFUL items that ARE necessary...and 'for me' that is Water/Powerade and energy bars.

field14:wink::tongue:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> What type of tree branch and string did ya use back then? Opinions are like that one body part I can't talk about on here, you have the type that everyone should follow your way or don't show up. Exactly what I'd expect from an old ca-mudgin like you. Guess when I check it again before I leave I won't make that mistake for the free of someone like you crying at me from behind your computer.


As little as 10-15 years ago, we weren't so pampered that we couldn't shoot more than 40 shots in a day, or shoot outdoors without having to block the wind with an umbrella....or worry about getting wet if it rained outdoors...etc. It didn't take no 5-7 hours to shoot 40 3-D either...40 shots in 5-7 hours?

I just think we are softening up.....to where the youngsters are complaining about fatigue, heat, humidity, and wah-wah...as much or more in some cases as the "old-timers."

Remember in the 1980's shooting 56 field targets in ONE day...and being off the courses by 3PM...starting at 8 or 9 AM....That was AFTER the target change. 
Before the target change it was pretty much standard where I lived during the early 1970's to still shot 56 field or hunter in ONE day...and we didn't have the benefits of 65%, or 80% letoff...and the 50, 60, and 70 year olds did it too..WITHOUT COMPLAINING....Age is age...regardless of whether it is in the 1970's or 2008....

But, that was then, this is now....nothing at all against the stools/chairs....but use common sense and don't carry useless baggage around....use it instead for something worthwhile....IF you use it at all.

I'm a heart patient, have had knee surgery on my knee twice, along with some other surgeries....and I"m over 60. Thanks to being physically and aerobically fit, and staying that way, I don't struggle in the heat or tough uphill/downhill ranges...although I know the day is coming when....age will get to me.

Now, on a last note...as I well knew....several took the bait....and now, how far will they "run with it", or in the case of some biters....WALK or crawl with it, bearing the 3-Der's world and cool-stool on their shoulders?

field14


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Field14*



field14 said:


> As little as 10-15 years ago, we weren't so pampered that we couldn't shoot more than 40 shots in a day, or shoot outdoors without having to block the wind with an umbrella....or worry about getting wet if it rained outdoors...etc. It didn't take no 5-7 hours to shoot 40 3-D either...40 shots in 5-7 hours?
> 
> I just think we are softening up.....to where the youngsters are complaining about fatigue, heat, humidity, and wah-wah...as much or more in some cases as the "old-timers."
> 
> ...


You think that might be part of the reason field archery has suffered
Realize times change and archers have changed. If I wanted an endurance race it can be found.
DB


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Daniel Boone said:


> You think that might be part of the reason field archery has suffered
> Realize times change and archers have changed. If I wanted an endurance race it can be found.
> DB



The endurance part of 3-D certainly isn't in shooting ONE shot every 20-25 minutes....it is in the WAITING and lugging around "spare stuff" and justifying it in "we're here to chat with our friends" when only a few short years ago....3-D was the "in thing" because it didn't take as long as shooting a field round...and you could go to a couple of 3-D events in ONE DAY in two different locations...

Now....however, 40 shots is taking as long, and in many cases longer than a 112 shot field event.

Sad state of affairs when you spend one minute out of every 20-25 minutes actually on the stake shooting the bow...the rest of it is enduring the long waits and chatter.....and lugging stuff around just in case of a failure in the "reliable" hi-tech equipment of today's archers.

field14


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## rocket83 (Dec 9, 2007)

*my shop*

even a well prepard bow and archer sometimes fails.so why not carry the stuff to fix it?even though a breakdown rarely occurs they still do happen from time to time.If the person can carry it and wants to carry it then why question it , doesn't make much sense to me why anyone would even question this?I shoot 3-d at least once a week practice and once on the weekend also all with my stool and even carry it around the yard daily getting ready for 3-d. why does it make someone less in shape or their equipment less prepared if you have a stool?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

field14 said:


> ...and the 50, 60, and 70 year olds did it too..WITHOUT COMPLAINING....Age is age...regardless of whether it is in the 1970's or 2008....
> 
> I'm a heart patient, have had knee surgery on my knee twice, along with some other surgeries....and I"m over 60. Thanks to being physically and aerobically fit, and staying that way, I don't struggle in the heat or tough uphill/downhill ranges...although I know the day is coming when....age will get to me.
> 
> field14


Maybe you should thank the genes of your parents for your good health. I am acquainted with a number of older folks (being one myself) who DO try to stay fit, but are confronted by serious health issues that limit their ability to perform up to their desired levels.
At Metropolis I shot with a gentleman in his 60's (super senior class) who had undergone several surgries to repair an infection in his spleen. He was attempting to shoot with a tube that drain the infected area. He was in enough pain without being forced to stand during the entire 40 targets we shot that day.

Would you suggest that since he isn't as physically fit as you, he should give up archery rather than take advantage of being able to rest on a small fold up stool? I saw a young man in a wheel chair at Anderson last year, are you suggesting he has no place on the range?

I got involved with this thread because I do sometimes carry a stool and other times I don't. I was interested in how others utilize a stool when they shoot.

But whether I choose to carry one of not is my decision. So long as it doesn't materially affect the ability of other competitors to shoot their best, what business is it of anyone else?

Frankly, you sound just a little judgemental and antagonistic. Maybe you and I should shoot a round together and I might find out you're not as irrasible as it seems. :wink:


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

I think the next 3-D shoot I go to I'm taking a cot, and taking a 15 minute power nap in between each shot. I'll have to leave the draw board at home to make room for a cot on my back though. If I have room, I'm bringing one of those coolers with wheels too.


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## Hasbro (Jul 5, 2003)

field14 said:


> The endurance part of 3-D certainly isn't in shooting ONE shot every 20-25 minutes....it is in the WAITING and lugging around "spare stuff" and justifying it in "we're here to chat with our friends" when only a few short years ago....3-D was the "in thing" because it didn't take as long as shooting a field round...and you could go to a couple of 3-D events in ONE DAY in two different locations...
> 
> Now....however, 40 shots is taking as long, and in many cases longer than a 112 shot field event.
> 
> ...


3D archery is what it is!.....

3D type of chairs do NOT slow down the pace of shooting....3D chairs are not against the rules.....Neither are umbies. 

Your a crotchity old fellow arn't you


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

SOME of you just don't get it, do you? I'm not saying ELIMINATE the STOOLS/CHAIRS from being carried....if you think you need one, then carry the thing...it is your body that has to absorb the extra labor.

What I'm trying to tell you is that PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE on your equipment can save you carrying a bunch of EXTRA CRAP that you don't really need to lug around.

Over my competitive career, I've gone from carrying everything but the kitchen sink to only carrying what I've come to REALLY NEED...I, too, used to think that I MUST HAVE all that garbage with me...and NEVER USED IT....so I culled it out, and have NEVER missed having it.

You talk of practicing once a week and shooting on a weekend? What is that...a drop in the bucket! I know people, and used to do it myself, that shot 28-56 FIELD targets a DAY...seven days a week....AND then, if there was a tournament,went to that too...And NOT ONCE did I ever have a bowstring blow up, or NEED a bunch of superflous junk. In years past, I even had a spare setup sitting back at the car...NEVER ONCE USED MY SPARE BOW...didn't have to. Just some PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE and routine CHECKING of the equipment BEFORE going out on the range...saved me from lugging around extra pounds of equipment....and allowed me instead to carry the water and energy bars.

All I'm saying is this: USE YOUR HEAD when it comes to carrying everything you might need to repair a bow...and CULL OUT those items you've never used! Get rid of excess, and if you think you must, then replace that weight with the water and energy bars (or junk food if you want it)....Having everything on hand for any repair is ludicrous, IMHO.

You are also wise if you have all your important measurements MARKED, and WRITTEN DOWN so that "if" something happens, you can duplicate it.

Why would a person go out on a course in a tournament with a frayed d-loop that has seen its better day? I see that all the time, however...and then, when it does fail, said persons haven't even been able to put on a new one and get it in the right place...after opening up their cool stool pouch and digging through the maze of tools and paraphenalia to find an "uncut" piece of d-loop material, trying to duplicate the length and positioning...and shooting like crap afterwards because they don't know how to duplicate where the original loop was.

going out on a tournament with a frayed/worn out buss cable? Why? Fix it BEFORE you go...

Hoping it will "hold on" for 40 shots? Not wise. PREVENTIVE CARE, PROACTIVE ARCHERY.

Sure, some unknowns can happen...but what are the MOST FREQUENT breakdowns? What are the MOST USED things you MIGHT take in the cool stool...

Use your head, carry ONLY WHAT experience tells you you MIGHT or HAVE USED...and leave the rest in the car/truck.

Umbies? Legal, yes...but that still will NEVER change my opinion of their use as wind-breakers for the bowarm...that is STUPID and PANSIE-LIKE...it is OUTDOOR shooting...learn how to shoot in the elements, or go shoot indoors where the only wind blowing is from people bragging about their 60X 300's they shot last week...and only shot a 35X this week.

People continue to take the bait, hook, line, and sinker....:wink::tongue:

field14:tongue::wink:


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

Why are some you guys always bashing, complaining, critizing 3-D shooters?

I would like for every archer to participate, but if you don't like the game, how its played, etc, stay home watch tv...

As far as my wife and I and our friends.. were going to keep shooting,,bring our chairs, with cold drinks and goodies, and UMBIES. We are going to have a good time. And if someone needs a shade from sun or wind and that means them beating me...Congradulations.. Any one us will hold the umbie as long as need for that shooter to make his shot....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*And it continues to grow*



field14 said:


> The endurance part of 3-D certainly isn't in shooting ONE shot every 20-25 minutes....it is in the WAITING and lugging around "spare stuff" and justifying it in "we're here to chat with our friends" when only a few short years ago....3-D was the "in thing" because it didn't take as long as shooting a field round...and you could go to a couple of 3-D events in ONE DAY in two different locations...
> 
> Now....however, 40 shots is taking as long, and in many cases longer than a 112 shot field event.
> 
> ...


3d attendance is up and thats amazing considering the gas prices. ASA attendance has been good. Must be doing something right. :wink:
DB


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

If I ever got into 3-D full time, I might bring my butler to carry my bow, pull arrows, keep score and help me on yardage. :tongue:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Slippy Field said:


> If I ever got into 3-D full time, I might bring my butler to carry my bow, pull arrows, keep score and help me on yardage. :tongue:


Wouldn't be a bit surprised if a "caddy" or "advisor" won't come along next in 3-D...afterall MORE is better, correct? You know, they'll carry your stool and bow/equipment...AND confer with you on the "yardage", then all ya gotsta do is step up to the stake and shoot. The "caddie" will even hold your umbie for you to block the wind....and...calculate the wind drift for you too.

field14


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## Lonestar63 (Mar 19, 2007)

field14 said:


> Wouldn't be a bit surprised if a "caddy" or "advisor" won't come along next in 3-D...afterall MORE is better, correct? You know, they'll carry your stool and bow/equipment...AND confer with you on the "yardage", then all ya gotsta do is step up to the stake and shoot. The "caddie" will even hold your umbie for you to block the wind....and...calculate the wind drift for you too.
> 
> field14


I barely made it thru the first 2 pages with all the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but i'm glad i hung tough because now it's getting good!:tongue:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

This thread is in the General Archery Discussion Area...see the link below.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=541778

Imagine that...with "add-on" Accessories:

1. 3-walls to "block the wind"...with a clear top to let in sunlight, but block out rain.
2. TWO "counters": one to VERIFY total number of shooters, so that you have solid data with which to base "3-d numbers are growing in spite of the price of fuel"...of course, getting COMPARISIONS and reliable data to support this...well, would take some work...but it could be done while waiting for your next ONE SHOT...that will occur somewhere between 20 to 30 minutes from the last ONE shot.

3. And the newest $199.99 accessory, that is a MUST to have: The CuzPROlite Flipometer....accurately measures and rates your "target flip-off" and gives the reading to within 0.001 mm. Impress your friends and see who will win the "best flip-off contest." Don't go to a 3-D event without one...get yours today....

I even heard scuttle-butt about a new twin-tandem version so your "spare" advisor can hitch a ride to...afterall, if the main advisor breaks down, you gotta carry a spare, right?

Hook line, sinker, and CuzPROlite flipometer....haha

field14:tongue::wink:


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## jh's truth (Jul 5, 2008)

*why i use one*

i use a chair because im a heavy guy and i like to sit down while i wait


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## Mich.bowhunter (Jun 29, 2007)

Slippy Field said:


> I think the next 3-D shoot I go to I'm taking a cot, and taking a 15 minute power nap in between each shot. I'll have to leave the draw board at home to make room for a cot on my back though. If I have room, I'm bringing one of those coolers with wheels too.


Forget the cooler.Bring a fridge and a geneator to run it.I wouldn't mind a stool to sit on while Im waiting for someone to look at the target 17 times before they shoot.


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## Kadob62 (May 1, 2009)

3+ hour shoots....a way to rest my feet......carry water/crackers/umbrella/arrows ect......


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

When we walk into the shoot area waiting to shoot at Pro ams. There no seats in the woods.

I perfer to sit untell time to shoot. Never hurts to give the legs a little rest.
DB


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Dang, I thought this thread died a long time ago. I've gone through three chairs since this thing started...plus I've gained a lot of respect for field14. even if he does occasionally rub me a little bit the wrong way. :wink:


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## ckulow (Jul 20, 2009)

If you are going to use a chair/stool what's the best to buy?

Carl


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## Bowtech54 (Sep 20, 2006)

The portable chairs/stools are great! Being able to carry my chair has allowed me to continue shooting tournaments due to health issues. As for the golf cart......?????


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## Squishface (Sep 28, 2008)

Slippy Field said:


> If I ever got into 3-D full time, I might bring my butler to carry my bow, pull arrows, keep score and help me on yardage. :tongue:


The driver of my climate controlled rickshaw rings the doorbell when it's time to shoot. Then I stop playing my xbox and come out to take the shot. I don't know whether people are more offended at the rickshaw, the fact that I make the rickshaw driver call me master, or that I shoot in a smoking jacket and pajamas. They banned my bikini team that ran my private snack bar last year....said it caused a disruption. The nerve!!!!!


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

again?




really?


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

i cant resist .i carry my chair so i can put a box of Kleenexes in it for all these guy's that cry when they get beat.and the umbrella keeps the tears off of us.no really its to carry the money we win.if you want to ban something on the range try banning smoking we dont want to smell it.


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

JimmyP said:


> i cant resist .i carry my chair so i can put a box of Kleenexes in it for all these guy's that cry when they get beat.and the umbrella keeps the tears off of us.no really its to carry the money we win.if you want to ban something on the range try banning smoking we dont want to smell it.


I think I like you! lol


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

i think there is alot more in life to worry about,if a guy brings a chair with his arrows and maybe some snacks in it. are you serious maybe they need to think about having a good time making friends and shooting good.


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

I love my chair. At national level shoots I have a snack and drinks and maybe some aspirin and have more than once been able to share the bounty with others. Being able to sit down in the shade occasionally especially when it is in the 90's is a big plus.


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

Not to mention a full supply of repair parts that I have also been able to share on more than one occasion.


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## Bowtech54 (Sep 20, 2006)

Restrictions....restrictions.....that's all some people do is set around and think about how nothing helps nothing (think of something constructive). Does carrying a chair help your form, does it help take the shakes out of your bow, does it help on judging yardage, and does it help think of something else to complain about. For those with *chair heart burn*.......it's a sport, cryin' out loud, that archers love to be involved in.....plus a family sport.......plus it is the nicest group of folks that you will ever be around....it's a family..........


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

Slippy Field said:


> Personally I'd like to see chairs outlawed. If Casey Martin can't ride a golf cart, then archers shouldn't get chairs. Just my opinion cause 3-d isn't just about shooting, its about dealing with the rigors of the weather and rough terrain and maintaining high level shooting performance despite the fatigue.


I'll go along with that...except YOU have to tell the Pros that, in the shootdown, they have to 
1. Walk and carry their own stuff
2. Do it outside enduring the rigors of weather and terrain

I'd pay a dollar to see that one LOL!


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

may be they need pretty bow caddies


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## dangerous dan (Jan 9, 2008)

I shot with my new chair for the first time last weekend. Took some getting used to. I used to use a hip quiver. Found myself forgetting to put my chair down and trying to shoot with it over my sholder a couple times


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## mdarton (Jan 11, 2008)

The second time the guy in the bowling shirt raises his binoculars, hit him with the chair.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

mdarton said:


> The second time the guy in the bowling shirt raises his binoculars, hit him with the chair.


 do it do it do it...:teeth::teeth::teeth::teeth:


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## Elkslayer6x5 (Sep 23, 2006)

mdarton said:


> The second time the guy in the bowling shirt raises his binoculars, hit him with the chair.


best use of a stool that i read in this whole thread...


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

every guy with a chair carries a can of whoop a in it.he is wanting you to hit him. so he dont have carry it in his chair any more. it will make his chair lighter when he oprns it.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

> every guy with a chair carries a can of whoop a in it.he is wanting you to hit him. so he dont have carry it in his chair any more. it will make his chair lighter when he oprns it.


lol, right on


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

the people complaining about the chairs are the ones that done shoot a lot or any 3D. Imagine that.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

field, why are you always belly-aching about 3D? Yea , I know its your right to give your opinion, but it sure as heck does not make common sense to why you always have to put your nose in. You don't shoot 3D. Is it because you enjoy complain, or have noting else better to do? 

and your complaint about umbies, okay for the sun ,but not the wind. you say learn how to shoot in the wind: its outside... well field last time I looke the dang sun was outside to. Maybe you should learn how to shoot in the sun. wind and sun are both nusainces. Oh heck why we are at it... lets take away those magnified lenses as a crutch. 

If someone asked you to hold an umbrella for the wind and you refuse, You are being a poor sport, and anyone shooting with you is at a disadvantage when compared to those "lucKy" enough to shoot in a group that has no problem holding an umbrella... NEWS FLASH: if the rules state you can have an umbrella, its not illegal to use it... stop being a jerk to 3-D shooters


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

I have my chair rigged up with a rangefinder.I use the finger pad that activates a flash light on a AR.I step on the chairs bottom rung and it reads the range and transmits it to my watch.I'm working on a program now that my chair will range the target and send the signal to my sight.It will then adjust its self.This will help cause last year someone ask me what time it was.I wasn't thinking and just held my watch out for them.He wandered why it said 34 yrds.That was 2 close.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Actually, it might be in the rules as legal for 3-D (IMHO the stupidest thing I've ever seen to be allowed in OUTDOOR archery), but for FITA which is always in the open....an UMBIE is totally forbidden, along with any "additional" assistance for the shooter on the line. They do allow "shading" for the shooter to see...but it is limited to the size of a legal sized envelope.
Field shooters, have for years used their "caps" to shield the peep or scope for the shooter when they could not SEE the target due to glare, reflection, or a target that was deep in the woods while the shooter was out in the open. However, NEVER was the shooter "shielded" from the wind by the use of a blocking device. This, IMHO, is just plain STUPID...and uncalled for....and NO! you will NEVER get me to change my mind on the umbie issue.

Poor sport? Not hardly. It is OUTDOOR archery, and if you have to be shielded from the wind with the use of an "assistant" or pair of "assistants" then you are in the wrong sport. I still would REFUSE any "assistance" from blocking the wind with an umbie when/if I was shooting 3-D. I also would NOT hold an umbie for another shooter to block the wind either. You are in the elements, wind is part of the game, and if you cannot handle the wind...then maybe you should take up knitting indoors or something.

Learn how to shoot in the wind, learn how to shoot when it is raining, and YES! Learn how to shoot when there is glare too...it CAN be done....FIELD and REAL "Target" shooters have done it just fine for years...without somebody coddling them with a 4' wind block. Next thing you know, shooters will modify those portable ground blinds so that they can be carried around the course and set up as a "shooter's house" so that they don't have wind, rain, or sunlight to give them any challenge while shooting outdoors....I can well visualize that it may well happen, too. Wouldn't be hard to make one so that it is 3' wide, 5' deep and 7 feet tall, shielded on 3-Sides....call it the "Shooter's Portable Hiding House" or something like that.

Oh, it feels soo GOOOD to stir a pot once in awhile...BUT...maybe I'll make me one of the SPHH's and put it on sale....Probably make a fortune on it from shooters that don't want to shoot in the elements, but still try to shoot OUTDOORS.

If ANYONE is at a "disadvantage" because they don't have an UMBIE....then perhaps the ASA should hand out UMBIES to every single shooter in the tournament as part of their registration fee. We are so concerned about "level playing fields" and "political correctness".....NOBODY complains about those that have the couple THOUSAND dollars to go out an purchase the "test" of 20 targets for the year....Those shooters that don't have the "test' to practice on every day are at a far worse DISADVANTAGE than those that choose not to have an UMBIE to block the wind! So get real on this and see the forest for the trees!

Bait taken.....and bait set.....hahahahaha

field14 (Tom D.)


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

there's a fine line between stirring the pot and making rude comments to/about other members. just mho.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I have a mini cam mounted on my scope. It is a wireless system that is hooked up to a computer that a friend out in the parking lot is using. There is a chip in my release aid that is also "hooked up" to that same computer. I simply pull back the bow, and hold the site close to the middle. The person with the computer can watch my site, and with the programmed "delay time" already programmed to the computer and linked to the site and the release aid chip....the person in the parking lot, when my site is lined up with the X-ring, presses a key on the computer....this relays the trip signal to the release, and the release fires.
EVERY shot is a total surprise, and I don't worry much about anything else...since I will have no clue when the computer is going to trip my shot, so I am relegated to being the link that holds the effort together...nothing more...

YES...we have the technology to get this done. If they can have someone in South Africa signed onto a hunting system and can "shoot" a big game animal that is on a game farm in TEXAS...this simple thing of computerized tournament archery is a walk in the park, technology wise. Don't be one bit surprised WHEN this happens, folks!

field14


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

carlosii said:


> there's a fine line between stirring the pot and making rude comments to/about other members. just mho.


And the RUDE INSULTS and verbal abuses passed along as well, my friend! I don't believe I EVER intend any of my comments to be RUDE, they may be taken that way, but hey....there is the IGNORE LIST. You know they say, "What is good for the goose is good for the gander"....and "Sometimes the Truth hurts", and "If you can't stand the heat, then don't get into the fire", and...."If you ask for an OPINION, be prepared for anything....including something you probably don't want to hear." Things work both ways...not just from YOUR side....

Once again, bait taken, and new bait undertaken....


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## Iluvatar (Oct 13, 2006)

Great White said:


> I'm new to 3D and do not go to Shoots but I noticed that some use chairs. Why is this. I'm thinking it might be for the wait, but do people shoot from them and if they do why?


'Cause my fat***** needs a rest every now and then :darkbeer:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

In honor of field14, I'm not going to use a chair any longer.

Instead, I'm going to get a good 4-wheeler, mount a PSE TAC-15 on top like a turret and use it to shoot the cross bow class this year. I'll make sure I have pop-out umbrellas for the sides, top and rear angles as well. :whoo:


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

field14 said:


> FIELD and REAL "Target" shooters have done it just fine for years...
> field14 (Tom D.)


Come on Tom...are you suggesting that Jeff Hopkins, Levi Morgan and Darrin Christenberry aren't real target shooters? I have witnessed each of these 3ders getting wind blockage from umbrellas and I sure wouldn't say they aren't real target shooters. The fact is, they are among the best compound target shooters in the world! Don't take this the wrong way, but what it amounts to is you have no respect for 3d archery and I don't think you like it that many of the best archers in the country choose this venue. So instead, you belittle them for doing something that is totally within the rules. If you were serious, you would attempt to change the rules, but since you don't shoot much 3d, you would rather whine about those that do. Sorry if this sounds harsh, since I do like you, but as you said, sometimes the truth hurts.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

i use a chair because I WANT TO GET OVER IT. we are not hunting 3d has nothing to do with hunting it is a archery competition and if its not against the rules andit helps us we are going to use them.i will admit 3d is good practice for hunting and some peopleshoot for that reason.some shoot to compete .


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## hunter74 (Nov 23, 2007)

I got caught in the worst rain storm i have ever seen in Arkansas one day wish i had a chair with a rain suit in it.


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

Good one but I gotcha.I can use my umbrella and a mini proccesor in my stool to send a signal to change the rules to suit me @ anytime:wink:.


field14 said:


> I have a mini cam mounted on my scope. It is a wireless system that is hooked up to a computer that a friend out in the parking lot is using. There is a chip in my release aid that is also "hooked up" to that same computer. I simply pull back the bow, and hold the site close to the middle. The person with the computer can watch my site, and with the programmed "delay time" already programmed to the computer and linked to the site and the release aid chip....the person in the parking lot, when my site is lined up with the X-ring, presses a key on the computer....this relays the trip signal to the release, and the release fires.
> EVERY shot is a total surprise, and I don't worry much about anything else...since I will have no clue when the computer is going to trip my shot, so I am relegated to being the link that holds the effort together...nothing more...
> 
> YES...we have the technology to get this done. If they can have someone in South Africa signed onto a hunting system and can "shoot" a big game animal that is on a game farm in TEXAS...this simple thing of computerized tournament archery is a walk in the park, technology wise. Don't be one bit surprised WHEN this happens, folks!
> ...


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

shootist said:


> Come on Tom...are you suggesting that Jeff Hopkins, Levi Morgan and Darrin Christenberry aren't real target shooters? I have witnessed each of these 3ders getting wind blockage from umbrellas and I sure wouldn't say they aren't real target shooters. The fact is, they are among the best compound target shooters in the world! Don't take this the wrong way, but what it amounts to is you have no respect for 3d archery and I don't think you like it that many of the best archers in the country choose this venue. So instead, you belittle them for doing something that is totally within the rules. If you were serious, you would attempt to change the rules, but since you don't shoot much 3d, you would rather whine about those that do. Sorry if this sounds harsh, since I do like you, but as you said, sometimes the truth hurts.


Doesn't matter....IMHO....it is "just not right (rules or no rules)" to shoot OUTDOORS and be allowed to use umbrellas or other assistance to break the wind for the shooter! I ain't belittling them....but will tell you this....THOSE shooters would still be at the top WITHOUT the use of umbies...but they sure as heck won't pass on the opportunity if it is within the rules. If the ASA did away with UMBIES to block the wind, the SAME shooters would still win; they'd live with it just as they did before some loon got the idea to block the wind with golf umbrellas.

Those same shooters you talk about won't even consider asking for an umbie or "help" to block the wind at an NFAA field shoot, or a FITA event, or an NAA event....they shoot by THOSE rules which don't allow wind blockers. Like I said they don't NEED the "help" in the wind.

I still think that the ASA should provide UMBIES to EVERYONE, or....NOBODY is allowed to use them unless EVERYONE has them....but even this is silly, and obviously isn't practical either. Everyone worries about a level playing field....but NOT EVERYONE has an "umbie", so here comes an "unfair advantage" for those that do...but nobody complains...just like they don't complain that only a few have the $$$$ to purchase the test each year by investing the $2,000+ to buy the 20 target "test" that is announced in advance. DISTINCT AND CLEAR ADVANTAGE...and let this is allowed to continue? Set it so that ANY 20 of the targets within the arsenal can be used at any tournament, at any time, and that NO TWO tournaments use the SAME 20 targets...and watch the differences. Yes, the cream will rise to the top...but will it be the SAME cream?

OUTDOORS is outdoors, and using "assistants" and "umbies" to change the elements is just not, IMHO, something that NEEDS to be done....it is a "joke" beyond belief...but again....we agree to disagree....rules or no rules, I will NOT use an umbie, nor will I hold an Umbie for anyone...to block the wind so they or me can "hold steadier in the wind." Nope...won't be for happenin'.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

tom if you thinks its fun to stirr the pot, and create arguments. That statement comfirms that your nothing more than an arse hole.

and for someone to be in archery and as old as you are, you've lost (or never had it) all common sense. asa should provide umbies for everyone...well maybe they should provide a collard shirt for everyone (thats a requirment) and arrows, a bow, release aide, sites everything.

Glad you don't shoot 3-D and I see why you don't. You have not capable of going to a shoot for fellowship and to have fun. If heaven forbid, if a group has more than one umbie among them that someone share their extra to a group that doesnt' have one. Might be a shock to you, but that happens pretty often. We all want to shoot good, and do well, but fortunatly the 3-D folks have a lot more class and grace to be selfish and not help someone.
Maybe because of people like you is why field archery has died (at least in my area its dead as a road kill possum) and 3-D has succeded. 3-D archers are top class people. Many of us shoot at least 1 if not 2 local shoots per weekend. all of us supporting each other.
3-D archery is more than just judging yardage, picking a spot, and making the shot. Its about seeing our competition, aquiantances and friends from across the countryand having a good time. 
IMHO Tom, if people in 3-D had your attitude, then it would not have made it, plain and simple.
Call obama and see if he will let you go to the super bowl with him.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> tom if you thinks its fun to stirr the pot, and create arguments. That statement comfirms that your nothing more than an arse hole.
> 
> and for someone to be in archery and as old as you are, you've lost (or never had it) all common sense. asa should provide umbies for everyone...well maybe they should provide a collard shirt for everyone (thats a requirment) and arrows, a bow, release aide, sites everything.
> 
> ...


Exactly...I can see how, when confronted with the TRUTH or a differing opinion, or hearing something they don't want to hear, SOME (obviously not all) 3-Ders resort to vulgarity, personal assaults, name calling, and obnoxious rhetoric, or UNCOUTH remarks. 
You show me, and others, just what you are made of, and frankly, "People like you that live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones". Your comment in your first sentence is totally OUT OF LINE...and is a direct reflection; not only on yourself, but other "defensive" types such as yourself. You resort to INSULTS when you cannot handle the TRUTH or can't see the forest for the trees. Your day will come. Look at your first sentence, and then look in the mirror...talk about the pot calling the kettle black???

I ain't arguing...just stating my OPINION, which is my right, and my opinion with regard to what you obviously hold as near and dear to your heart to "be a pansy when it comes to shooting in the wind" cuz you "want to shoot well"....hasn't changed nor will it...and all the name calling and personal assaults won't do it either. So...yank in your anchor, and clean up your foul mouthed act.

Bait taken....and some more "Churf" distributed.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Well I have an extra chair for sale if you need one field, I will have my chair,umbrella and and all the goodies in florida


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

3Dblackncamo said:


> Well I have an extra chair for sale if you need one field, I will have my chair,umbrella and and all the goodies in florida


The chair might be a welcome thing, and even some of the goodies...especially some extra energy bars, but the umbie? Well, you know I won't carry one, use one, or hold one...to "block the wind" for any shooter, including myself. Just against my philosophy when it comes to shooting outdoors, regardless of venue or weather conditions, hahaha.
I'll be "cruisin' " from Jan 29 thru Feb 6 in places way warmer than Florida, and won't be consuming "energy bars" or sitting on a camp stool; in fact won't be shooting no bow 'n arrey either. Maybe some bicycling, but mostly just fun in the sun, watching people, and enjoying the ocean.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## mdarton (Jan 11, 2008)

carlosii said:


> there's a fine line between stirring the pot and making rude comments to/about other members. just mho.


If a little sarcasm hurts feelings, need to toughen up.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

mdarton said:


> If a little sarcasm hurts feelings, need to toughen up.


BUT...when they add Whittington's SECOND SENTENCE to the stirring the pot.... where NAME CALLING and vulgarity pops in...then it becomes UNCOUTH and uncalled for..and responses get "testy". Hence my reply to the "vulgarity" and rudeness, crassness, name calling, and downright hostile context.

But hey, they always say, "Consider the source...they are the ones that need to look in the mirror."

field14 (Tom D.)


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## mdarton (Jan 11, 2008)

Ive always felt, if you want to shoot spots, do it on paper. I do shoot 3D, but I dont look at the target til I hit the stake. I give myself about 10 seconds, and shoot. A shot in the lung area I consider a success. I dont use umbrellas, chairs, binoculars, four foot stabilizers, target cards, or wear bowling shirts. By shooting spots, which just happen to be on a resemblance of an animal, some compare it to hunting. Using these props sissifies archery in general.


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## mdarton (Jan 11, 2008)

field14 said:


> BUT...when they add Whittington's SECOND SENTENCE to the stirring the pot.... where NAME CALLING and vulgarity pops in...then it becomes UNCOUTH and uncalled for..and responses get "testy". Hence my reply to the "vulgarity" and rudeness, crassness, name calling, and downright hostile context.
> 
> But hey, they always say, "Consider the source...they are the ones that need to look in the mirror."
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


 I was talking about the other side of the debate.


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

mdarton said:


> Ive always felt, if you want to shoot spots, do it on paper. I do shoot 3D, but I dont look at the target til I hit the stake. I give myself about 10 seconds, and shoot. A shot in the lung area I consider a success. I dont use umbrellas, chairs, binoculars, four foot stabilizers, target cards, or wear bowling shirts. By shooting spots, which just happen to be on a resemblance of an animal, some compare it to hunting. Using these props sissifies archery in general.


Seriously, using these props sissifies archery in general? I have not read this whole thread as it is mostly just a bunch of folks poking at other folks but to call us sissies for using these 'props' in archery is truly uncalled for.

So what if Field doesn't use an umbrella...alright then. So what is someone won't carry a stool because that 'is not what archery is all about', alright then. But to call out those of us that do this sport that we call archery the way we do it and saying we are sissies is totally BS! I am involved in this sport because I love it, I really don't care about hunting, I do hunt but I had rather be on the 3d range anyday as sitting in a tree. I take my time on the stake, I glass the target, I shoot a long stabilizer and wear my bowling shirt because that is what I do. I want to be the best I can be at what I am doing. 

If taking 10 seconds on the stake and flinging an arrow downrange and hitting the animal in the lung area is your idea of success then by all means have at it. I will not come on here and call your way of shooting sissified or useless so don't come on here and call all of us sissies for doing what we do.


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

mdarton said:


> If a little sarcasm hurts feelings, need to toughen up.


And before you repost your take on sarcasm and tell me I need to toughen up...I am plenty tough enough.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Uncouth? field you can't be serius! Oh ya, I forgot its you. Sorry. If its uncouth calling you an arse hole, then why do you constantly come on the 3-D forum and post all your BS about semi pro, amatures getting money, umbies, chairs etc When you don't shoot 3D? Seriously, you always have to start crap and ridicule archers when they make a post/ start a thread then feel we need or want to hear your opinion regarding 3-D archery. again you don't shoot it, you don't participate in it, so whay do you care?

If your offended by my comment, think how we feel when you critizie our sport? If it walks like a duck talks like a duck, acts like a duck..Well< "MR Ducks"! HINT,,,thats why I named you arse hole...if you don't like it,,,then stop acting like one. simple as that.
Enough is enough.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> Uncouth? field you can't be serius! Oh ya, I forgot its you. Sorry. If its uncouth calling you an arse hole, then why do you constantly come on the 3-D forum and post all your BS about semi pro, amatures getting money, umbies, chairs etc When you don't shoot 3D? Seriously, you always have to start crap and ridicule archers when they make a post/ start a thread then feel we need or want to hear your opinion regarding 3-D archery. again you don't shoot it, you don't participate in it, so whay do you care?
> 
> If your offended by my comment, think how we feel when you critizie our sport? If it walks like a duck talks like a duck, acts like a duck..Well< "MR Ducks"! HINT,,,thats why I named you arse hole...if you don't like it,,,then stop acting like one. simple as that.
> Enough is enough.


Yep, just as expected...vulgarity and personal attacks, or "crass and without class" on YOUR part. 
It isn't ME that is acting and playing the part of the moniker you are using...look in the mirror....read the AT rules, too...PERSONAL ATTACKS and VULGARITY are not permitted...and you've really crossed that line several times now.

If you can't stand the heat or want to violate the rights of free speech and a person's right to an OPINION, even if it differs from yours....perhaps you outta consider moving away somewhere....else....

I will continue to express my opinion, and again, if you don't like it, don't read my posts and use the IGNORE function. But...vulgarity is going to stop....one way or another...CRASS and without CLASS...

At least I don't stoop to vulgarity and personal attacks.


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

Seems to me that it would be STUPID not to use the tools/accessories allowed. 

I definitely don't think that a person who uses umbrellas/chairs is any lesser of an archer, if anything I think it means he is a better archer...because he is using his brain.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Field did I hit a nerve when I told ya what already know...your a grade A, Number 1, bonifide, EDIT I didnt use vulgarity... arse is not a vulgar word.

If ya can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen or do I mean the 3-D forum.. 

you still havnt answered the question...YOU DONT SHOOT 3-D SO WHY DO YOU KEEP COMPLAINING ABOUT SOME THING THAT HAS NOT AFFECT ON YOU?


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

field14 said:


> Yep, just as expected...vulgarity and personal attacks, or "crass and without class" on YOUR part.
> It isn't ME that is acting and playing the part of the moniker you are using...look in the mirror....read the AT rules, too...PERSONAL ATTACKS and VULGARITY are not permitted...and you've really crossed that line several times now.
> 
> If you can't stand the heat or want to violate the rights of free speech and a person's right to an OPINION, even if it differs from yours....perhaps you outta consider moving away somewhere....else....
> ...


Are there not laws against harassment? Coming onto a 3D threads and continually talking BS and trying to stir up the pot when it is not wanted seems to harassment. YOU ARE LIKE A STALKER!!


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Field I can play that game too,...what about our free speech, our right to view our opinons,,, you attack us all the time. and your threats?. Your the guilty one....we're just tired of your ranting, whinning, complaining, attacking, critiziing, 

YOU STILL WON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION? SINCE YOU DON'T SHOOT 3D, THEN TELL US WHY YOU CARE WHAT WE DO? WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS? HOW IS IT HARMING YOU? DOES IT MAKE YOU MAD THAT WE 3D SHOOTERS HAVE A GOOD TIME? 

WE KNOW WHY! YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE A _________ _____________ YOU CAN'T HELP IT. YOUVE GOT NOTHING ELSE BETTER TO DO! YOU HATE OUR GAME, BECAUSE YOU CANT PLAY IT.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> Field I can play that game too,...what about our free speech, our right to view our opinons,,, you attack us all the time. and your threats?. Your the guilty one....we're just tired of your ranting, whinning, complaining, attacking, critiziing,
> 
> YOU STILL WON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION? SINCE YOU DON'T SHOOT 3D, THEN TELL US WHY YOU CARE WHAT WE DO? WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS? HOW IS IT HARMING YOU? DOES IT MAKE YOU MAD THAT WE 3D SHOOTERS HAVE A GOOD TIME?
> 
> WE KNOW WHY! YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE A _________ _____________ YOU CAN'T HELP IT. YOUVE GOT NOTHING ELSE BETTER TO DO! YOU HATE OUR GAME, BECAUSE YOU CANT PLAY IT.


Guess you need an ENGLISH Lesson..cuz you are so used to using vulgarity...you obviously don't know the difference anymore. You probably also use the "F-bomb" and think there is nothing wrong or crass about that either.

ENGLISH LESSON OF THE DAY: Source: http://www.definitions.net/definition/ARSE
Definitions of 'ARSE'
buttocks, nates, arse, butt, backside, bum, buns, can, fundament, hindquarters, hind end, keister, posterior, prat, rear, rear end, rump, stern, seat, tail, tail end, tooshie, tush, bottom, behind, derriere, fanny, ***** 
the fleshy part of the human body that you sit on
"he deserves a good kick in the butt"; "are you going to sit on your fanny and do nothing?"

2. (noun) arse, arsehole, *****hole, bunghole 
*vulgar slang for anus*


Yep, you are a 3-D "shooter", I can tell..because a 3-D ARCHER wouldn't resort to your nonsense. So YES, you ARE resorting to VULGARITY...but again you figure the rules don't apply to you.

Easy answer....because what you 3-D SHOOTERS (not those fine 3-D ARCHERS) are trying to have an effect on all phases of archery, or have the mentality that yours is the ONLY game in town. Too many clubs have been wrecked over the years with a 3-D SHOOTERS' mentality of "we don't have room for field and for 3-D both, so let's just TAKE OVER." That has been done over and over and over again...and within a few years of the "take-over" those clubs cease to exist and are gone forever.

Again, look in the mirror...you are abusing my RIGHT to free speech, etc as you put in your once again crass post above...it is OK for YOU to interpret what I say as "running down" when I express and OPINION....but it is NOT OK for me to express MY opinion...you can't have YOUR cake and eat it too.
You are RANTING, YOU are whinning (watch your spelling by the way), YOU are ATTACKING, YOU are criticizing, but of course, since it is YOU...the rules don't apply...cuz like you and many other "3-D SHOOTERS (not ARCHERS, they are the upper crust of the game) you have been raised thinking that you are "special" and the rules only apply to everyone else.

Hopefully some day, but I seriously doubt it, you will upgrade to become a 3-D ARCHER instead of a 3-D SHOOTER... There is a world of difference between the two, so you have a world to cross and catch up with...since it won't stop to let you on or off like you think it is supposed to.

Enough of YOUR ranting and trying to PULL my rights...I'll be more willing to communicate further with 3-D ARCHERS that have some class.....and don't resort to vulgarity, innuendo, uncouth remarks, and demonstrating just how a 3-D SHOOTER acts.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

HokieArcher said:


> Seems to me that it would be STUPID not to use the tools/accessories allowed.
> 
> I definitely don't think that a person who uses umbrellas/chairs is any lesser of an archer, if anything I think it means he is a better archer...because he is using his brain.


Hokie,
You are absolutely correct...and I can pretty much tell you that if those "extra aids and assistants" were OUTLAWED, those ARCHERS would comply too. The only reason they are being used is because they are LEGAL...but if you look around, not EVERYONE is using the assitants/aids because the don't NEED to. The upper level ARCHERS aren't about to give up an advantage if they can help it; they would be fools to do so. The fault doesn't lie within the ARCHERS, it lies in the org that allowed this stuff (primarily 4'diameter umbrellas to block the wind) to happen in the first place.

I do NOT have to LIKE it, I do NOT have to "use" the assistants and aids, and I certainly do NOT have to avoid mentioning my (and many other ARCHERS as well) displeasure with those "things" being allowed. You speak of "harrassment"...how's about the "harassment" in MY direction? YOU are harassing me, too...but oh, that's right the rules only apply in ONE direction, I forgot. My philosophy differs from yours? So what? Yours differs from mine and I don't call you that CRASS and UNCOUTH term used by Whittinton SHOOTER

The others on here verbally attacking me, using VULGARITIES (and " and trying to order me around...are obviously SHOOTERS, because no ARCHER would attack like that. They also must feel that what I say has MERIT...since otherwise, they'd take it with a grain of salt, honor the OPINIONS, and get on with trying to work their way up to ARCHER Status.

So...why do YOU use a 3-D chair?


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

field14 said:


> Hokie,
> You are absolutely correct...and I can pretty much tell you that if those "extra aids and assistants" were OUTLAWED, those ARCHERS would comply too. The only reason they are being used is because they are LEGAL...but if you look around, not EVERYONE is using the assitants/aids because the don't NEED to. The upper level ARCHERS aren't about to give up an advantage if they can help it; they would be fools to do so. The fault doesn't lie within the ARCHERS, it lies in the org that allowed this stuff (primarily 4'diameter umbrellas to block the wind) to happen in the first place.
> 
> The others on here verbally attacking me, using VULGARITIES (and " and trying to order me around...are obviously SHOOTERS, because no ARCHER would attack like that. They also must feel that what I say has MERIT...since otherwise, they'd take it with a grain of salt, honor the OPINIONS, and get on with trying to work their way up to ARCHER class.


I take it that the organization that you are talking about, that allows the use of umbrellas as wind blockers, is the ASA. From what I gather you don't shoot any ASA events so why does it matter to you and why would you cause such a stink about it? It just doesn't make sense to me....I have to say it but it seems like you are coming on here and asking for these "VULGARITIES."


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

Is this really still going on?? Seriously??


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

Great White said:


> I'm new to 3D and do not go to Shoots but I noticed that some use chairs. Why is this. I'm thinking it might be for the wait, but do people shoot from them and if they do why?


How about we get back to the topic at hand? Seems like that would be much better than bickering...

Most of us take chairs...or stools...to sit on between shots and to carry our stuff. Lots of times we go out to our assignes range (I am talking ASA as this is the only venue I shoot) and it may be that the class before us is running late, it may be an hour wait to get on the range. We have our stools we sit on them. It sure does help my back since I had back surgery a few years ago any extended period of standing hurts my back.

I have only seen one person shooting from their stool and that was a young man named Alan Brown, he had lost a leg to cancer and last year he was able to make it to a few big shoots and he would put his stool on the stake and shoot from his stool. He would then get up and get his crutches and make every step to every target to help score or pull or whatever. He was so proud at the classic last year, he was able to complete both days, he held up to shoot 40 shots. He passed away about 4 weeks after the classic.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

HokieArcher said:


> I take it that the organization that you are talking about, that allows the use of umbrellas as wind blockers, is the ASA. From what I gather you don't shoot any ASA events so why does it matter to you and why would you cause such a stink about it? It just doesn't make sense to me....I have to say it but it seems like you are coming on here and asking for these "VULGARITIES."


Nobody ASKS for the vulgarities, and there isn't any justification for them on an open forum either. It is those intellectual knee-highs that have to resort to vulgarities, name calling, trash talking, and uncouth remarks that do such things. SHOOTERS and definitely NOT archers.

I don't shoot ASA NOW....but did in the past...ASA rules events, on a local level, in several states. I've NOT shot a "Big" ASA event, but that could change sometime in the future.
A couple of those States that I shot in ended up BANNING the use of UMBIES for any tournaments held within said State...due to the abuses and time problems associated with using them. That, and the strong complaints by those that felt like me and several other ARCHERS attending those events at the time.

The "stink" about it is like you....protecting the "turf" in trying to make darned sure this "use of assistants and unnecessary aids" doesn't spill in over to FIELD shooting. It has been tried, and so far has failed and been foiled, thank heavens. THAT is the major reason I keep nipping at it....and the FACT that I cannot and will not change my philosophy in order to attend the big ASA events...and refuse to use or to 'Assist by using' those items to BLOCK THE WIND for the shooter at the stake. To do so, along with being against my philosophy, would be hypocritical on my part. Some "SHOOTERS" on here have made me well aware about being a pariah or "unfair competitor by taking away the opportunity from other SHOOTERS"...so I stay away.

But, like you, I WILL try to protect the turf and philosophy of FIELD shooting that such aids are NOT permissible and won't be condoned. Don't want the spill over, and won't participate in areas where those things counter to my philosophy are being used, legally, or illegally.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

I carry a stool because it has a cooler in it for my drinks and I'd rather have arrows and items in my chair than around my waist. I carried a stool for most of last year and actually sat on it 3 times.


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

Field...I think you are barking up the wrong tree by complaining in the 3D threads. Complaining here isn't gonna stop it from "spilling over to FIELD shooting" and it seems that you upset a lot of people and lose the main topic of a lot of threads by doing so. It appears that you would have a much greater impact if you would take some of the time you spend on here "baiting the hook" and volunteer it to some of the field archery organizations that you belong to, that way you could stress directly to them your feelings on these subjects. Now....I am done with this and debating with you.

Now like absolutecool has said (thank you by the way)....back to the subject.

I use a 3-D stool to help conserve my energy while waiting. I look at the basketball and baseball players who are not in the game (in our case not at the shooting stake) and they are resting on the bench.

I also use mine to lay my bow on and to carry some tools, drinks, and snacks. 

I rarely notice stools at the shooting stakes...it seems that almost everyone has the common sense to set them up far enough away to give the archer ample room to shoot.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

This is the 3D forum not the field forum, it is also archery talk (archers helping archers) not archers arguing with archers, as for the field forum 3D shooters dont go and tell them how everything should be done, if i remember correctly someone offered to pay your entry fees field14 for the asa shoot in florida, come down and show us you your expertise instead of ranting on here!


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

I think archery talk needs a 'like' button like there is on facebook...lol


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

*...*

Tom,

Are chairs banned in field archery? Forgive me for not knowing the answer already, but the last field round I shot was in Pekin 10 years ago. If they are legal, then I am assuming most guys don't use them? 

It is funny some of the quirky rules organizations have. The first time I shot the "Texas Shoot-Out" (FITA event), I showed up wearing a pair of $40 blue jeans. I was told I could not wear them. However, a pair of $8 blue wind pants were completely fine. 

As long as ASA allows stools and umbrellas, I will use them. If they ban them, I won't use them. At the end of the day, I could really care less either way though.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Yes, you can take a chair with you on an NFAA course if you are willing to carry it. You are correct in that MOST of the field shooters don't carry stools with them, seeing no need to. However as us old farts get older and go to ranges like Yankton or others where some ranges aren't permanent, and it takes longer than normal to shoot a round, we see chairs being lugged around. Myself, I wouldn't want the extra baggage, but others probably need to sit down, so will carry one with them. 

On the local levels, and even State and Sectional levels, many of the "permanent" FIELD courses already have benches at the targets for people to sit on. The benches and bow racks are part of the "Star Points" awarding system the NFAA has had for years and years. The more "added bennies" your course has, such as benches and bow racks, Picnic tables, kids' play ground (fenced or unfenced), WIDE and cleared shooting lanes, the courses staked for FIELD, Hunter AND Animal rounds, 4-abreast potential with your stake layout, water on ranges,etc, the higher your "star rating".
There is a MINIMUM star rating to host a sanctioned NFAA shoot...used to be 3 stars, but I'm not looking it up now. 

I know we busted our butts up in Waverly, Iowa and had/have a 5-Star NFAA rating, which is the best you can get out of the NFAA. 
It wasn't the first 5-star rated course that I've helped build and/or rebuild over the course of the years, but is the most memorable because of the "lay of the land" and the impressive pride that the Waverly Archers take in that club-owned property.

Pekin has benches behind the shooting stakes on many of the targets their 28-target range, and also bow racks at each target as well. 
Pekin also takes out bow racks for each target on their 3-D course, but of course, cannot have benches on the 3-D ranges simply due to logistics and having to haul those around. The FIELD course, however is set, so having benches is a piece of cake.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

LMAO I seen this thread just after it was made and I knew it was going to be a whole can of worms.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

i carry a different kind of can in my stool .most people dont know it but you can carry wood wedges to even level out your feet if you want when the ground is not level. ASA


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