# TD Recurve buildalong.



## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

This will be my 3rd bow. Figured I'd do another build along for those who are interested. This one is going to be a surprise Christmas gift for a good friend.

Here's the block after I laminated it and cut and squared the limb mounting surfaces. It's Powerflex/Superaction laminated grey camo wood and I've insterted two hard-rock Maple veneers and a stripe of Bubinga. The limbs are going to be the grey SA wood under clear glass with bubinga wedges with phenoilc limb tips topped by a bit of Bubinga.










Here's the tapping process for putting in the limb bolt inserts. I've found over my first two bows that it's critical to get that insert put in perpendicular to the mounting surface so I use a small square on alternating points of the tap to make sure it goes down perfect.










Stay tuned...i'm gluing up limb #1 Monday night!


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

I dunno about the rest of the people here, but you are making me jealous that you got the resources and the talent to build bows one after another like that.

It already looks wonderful and thats no where near finished!


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Like I tell the wife: "It's cheaper than therapy!" ...course, I say that about all the hobbies :wink:


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## menaztricks (Apr 2, 2006)

how much does one of those run you?


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## horseman308 (Apr 17, 2006)

Hey Wheelie, good looking stuff I've been watching. Something that might help with the tapping:

I did this with a flintlock rifle I'm doing. insert the tap into the chuch of a drill press and clamp the block into a vice so that they are perpindicular (like you've got it in your picture). You should be able to turn the chuck by hand and use it to tap the hole. That way you know for sure that it's at 90 degrees to the hole. Obviously, don't turn on the press, just turn by hand, but it worked like a charm.


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## eno-man (Sep 14, 2006)

Wow, can't wait to see more pics of your progress. Keep up the good work.
Thanks.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

horseman308 said:


> I did this with a flintlock rifle I'm doing. insert the tap into the chuch of a drill press and clamp the block into a vice so that they are perpindicular (like you've got it in your picture). You should be able to turn the chuck by hand and use it to tap the hole. That way you know for sure that it's at 90 degrees to the hole. Obviously, don't turn on the press, just turn by hand, but it worked like a charm.


That's a great idea! I'll give it a try on the next one. The square has worked pretty good, but I'm always looking for new methods.



menaztricks said:


> how much does one of those run you?


One of what? The bow? Materials when it's all said and done (including finish, shop consumeables, strings, silencers, etc.) runs from $180 - $275 depending largely on wood choice. This of course does not figure in for the hours...lots and lots of hours...


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## chessieboy (Sep 13, 2006)

Looks great. I'd love to try to build try to build one. Can you give more details on the first part. Or through out the names of reference materials.

thanks


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## warped Arrow (Sep 20, 2005)

Wheelie_Pete said:


> Materials when it's all said and done (including finish, shop consumeables, strings, silencers, etc.) runs from $180 - $275 depending largely on wood choice. This of course does not figure in for the hours...lots and lots of hours...


So tell me....What would you charge? I would loooove to own a custom one day, and I really like your work.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Well...I'm really enjoying building bows, but before I sell any I want to make sure that I'm comfortable and confident in my product. To be at that point I feel like I need to build between 5-10 bows and have them in heavy use for at least 6 months (shot every week). If it's all holding up after that and meeting my expectations (which are high) I might consider making bows to sell. I also need the time to figure out how to streamline the building process and make it cost efficient (the time-value of money) cause right now, it takes so many hours to build one of these things that the cost for me to build one to sell publically would probably turn-off a lot of people. I have a regular job so this is all in the free-time.  

Any way, back to the build:

Got the lams laid out:










Everything glued-up and put in the form under air pressure:










Out of the heat box and getting pried out of the form:










Pressure plate and tape off the limb:










Out of the form, glue cleaned off and ends trimmed square.


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## Hunter255 (Dec 10, 2004)

Great Work. Thanks


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## bcoulter (Sep 20, 2006)

wonderful thread! I'm enjoying watching over your shoulder.


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## RIG (Oct 13, 2003)

Great thread! Very interesting!!


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

UPDATE TIME:

Using drilling jig to drill limb. Same jig used for Riser.










Laying out limb pattern.










Grinding down the limb sides after rough cutting on bandsaw.










Fresh tape on the cut limbs pre-tillering










Oh the fun that is tillering. The bottom limb was dead-nuts on, but the top limb had some issues that had to be resolved with filing and nock work.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Tillering with the tiller stick in place. The tiller stick really lets you see if your tips are twisting or not at draw.










On to the fun stuff. Rough cut the riser on the bandsaw.










I have two layers of phenolic fiberglass gluing to each limb tip. I will go back in tomorrow night and put a top layer of bubinga on each tip to finish them off. The tinfoil is on the limb to deflect heat. I only need to heat the tip of the limbs to get the epoxy to cure. No sense in taking a chance on de-lamming lower on the limb so hence...the tinfoil.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Hurry up pete! I'm dying to see the next set of pics! Coming along very nicely!


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## vermonster13 (Sep 18, 2004)

Thanks for sharing. It will help some folks understand why bows cost what they do too, a lot of work and time goes into a bow.


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## AJT (Mar 20, 2006)

that is truely good work!!!


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

vermonster13 said:


> Thanks for sharing. It will help some folks understand why bows cost what they do too, a lot of work and time goes into a bow.


No kidding...I have a total appreciation for the amount of time a custom bowyer must put into the work to make a living at it. I'm only working on my 3rd bow, but I'm really begining to see where the time gets burned. I've done 3.5 sets of limbs now (goofed one up on bow #2 and had to re-make it) and I find that it takes me a minimum of 2 hours to prep and glue one set of lams for one limb. (That includes all the form prep, limb prep, pre-heating, trimming, layout, and gluing, and alignment.) That means that it takes 4 hours MINIMUM just to glue the limbs together! Getting the limb overlays on is pretty time consuming also... I fully understand now how good bowyers can command large sums for their bows. It's a ton of work from start to finish. I think on the next bow I build I'll keep track of the hours involved on a spreadsheet.

I should be able to get some new pics up soon. I've got all the limb overlays epoxy'd on (tips and bolt pad overlays), and I've started on carving the handle. My favorite part of all this is carving the handle. I spend a lot of time on it, but I really enjoy the shaping process. Conversley, gluing & shaping the limbs causes me the most anxiety as you can cost yourself a lot of money and time in a hurry if you make a little mistake...


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Gluing on limb butt-end overlays










Black & White Phenolic overlays, with bubinga on top.










Tip overlays glued on, again, Black & White Phenolic with Bubinga










Tips-n-Tails










Got one carved tonight.


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## Esquire (Oct 7, 2006)

What a great thread. You're getting me inspired to take up a winter project!!!

Mike


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## Outlaw Archer (Jul 4, 2004)

Does it take much to build a press for the limbs?

Jeff


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Not hard to build the form. But you need the limb plans. I got my plans and materials from http://www.binghamprojects.com.

Here's the handle thus far.










This is after rounding out the arrow rest. I love the way this laminated wood makes an "eye" on the arrow rest when your ound it out.










I'm going to be taking 2 weeks off of the bow building so I can work on my rock crawler. Our club is hosting a big run on the 20-22 of this month and I need to get some projects that I've been putting off done. So don't panic, I'll get back to the bow, but it's going to be a couple weeks. Until then I'll be messing with this thing... :shade:


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## chessieboy (Sep 13, 2006)

Any progress yet?


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

On the rock buggy? Yes, plenty :tongue: On the bow? No. Although I did finally give my dad the bow I made for him and we both got to shoot in the woods on his property. Good times. The buggy is currently in pieces in my garage (had to paint all the tube work) and I've got to get it back together before Friday morning when we leave for the trails. I'll be back working on the bow Monday probably.


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## gilliland87 (Apr 5, 2006)

*amazing work*

the title says it all any helpfull hints you would be able to offer to an interested prospective builder? reading info and of blue prints with construction methods explained?


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

The finished shape before final sanding and finishing.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

i just finished a recurve (my first), and yours puts mine too utter shame.

still, i like the bow and it's fun to make 'em! (there seems to be a direct correlation between the time spent working on the bow and how good it looks- mine are simple but opnly take about a week, plus the drying process)


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## catdaddy (Aug 8, 2003)

Was that riser plan/shape part of the Bingham plans or did you modify it somewhat? I love the grip and well difined lines of it. If it is one from Bingham which one? Great job


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## W.Tim (Nov 15, 2005)

great thread


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

Pete
Nice work. I've built a few with the bingham kits but I think I got my forms off or something cause it was pure misery getting the limbs right. I went like they showed in the video as far as cutting the forms, but I think my bandsaw isn't square, or doesn't hold square when cutting.

I learned a lot making my bows and may try again sometime. From what I see so far, your's are a work of art.

Nice work, and yes it does take MANY hours.

What are you cutting the fiberglass limbs to shape with? Mine took one bandsaw blade per limb and that got real old.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

I cut my limb form (the press) rough with the bandsaw, then I used a drum sander chucked into my drill press (making sure the drum was exactly 90 degrees to the table) to make the form perfectly square.

I have a sacrificial blade that I just use on limbs only. The minute you touch your bandsaw blade to fiberglass it's ruined. I use a 1/2" skip tooth 6tpi blade. It cuts slow, but still gets through the limbs. Again, I rough cut the limbs and then use a small belt sander or drum sander to take the limbs down to the layout.

Yes, limbs are a total P.I.T.A. sometimes. In fact, this bow in this thread, I totally finished, was out shooting it (shot awesome) but the top limb just wasn't quite right, so I started screwing with it and after a while I just decided to build another top limb. (I had worked the limb so much during the initial build that thing had gotten pretty skinny, and then when I went back into it I just decided that it wasn't exactly how I would like it so I ordered up the materials to remake the upper limb yesterday) 

So anyway, I'll be re-making another upper limb this next couple weeks. It's a lot of work, but I like things to be as close to perfect as I can get them. It was shooting great, the only problem was that if you pulled back and then let down, without shooting, the string wanted to ride slightly to one side. I couldn't adjust the string grooves any more, and I had already made the limb thinner (width) than I liked in the first place so I just said to heck with it and I'll make another upper limb.

But the riser and bottom limb are totally finished. Here's some riser pics. THere really isn't a plan for the riser, I just cut the rough shape from a template and then shape it however I feel like. I really liked this riser though...


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

Pete
You describe some of the very same problems I ran into. I thought I was screwing up. I might still have been. 

I began to question sone of my forms squareness ans lost confidence in my bow building abilities.

I had the very same issues with some limbs. I solved it on a take down longbow I built for my one son by leaving the limb butt slightly wide and re-aligning the limb so the string tracked perfectly. I then added a second limb pin from the BELLY side of the riser. That is one of the best bows I ever built.

That method also requires a little different approach to building up the riser. If I try this again, that is the way I'll go.

Someday I may try it again. How many limbs can you cut with the bandsaw blade? By the way, That's what I used as well but could barely get through two limbs with one blade.

SLOW doesn't describe how long the next limb took.

That riser looks beautiful.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

I've done 5 limbs on the one blade now. Seems to be cutting pretty good still, slow, but still cuts...

I think the real limb problem with Bingham's plans is coming from the fact that they have you drill the limb holes from the belly on that centerline (because that's the flat side of the wedge), but you do the layout from the back of the limb on another centerline. If those two lines aren't EXACTLY on top of each other your alignment is going to be out of whack. On this next limb I get to remake I'm going to take some great pains to make sure those centerlines are perfect and see how it goes. The reason they have you do the layout on the back of the limb instead of the belly is so that it's easier to cut in the bandsaw. Heck I may just do the layout this time on the belly of the limb on the same centerline that I am drilling from. Cutting it is going to be a booger and I may end up just sanding the whole thing down to shape, but I'm really curious to see if that solves the alignment problems.

The other thing that could throw alignment way off is if your riser holes aren't put in square to the riser and perfectly in line with each other. Although, this really isn't a issuse if you are careful and make sure your alignment for drilling is square to the same side of the riser block. I think the limb drilling and layout is where the problems are generating from.

Interestingly enough, when I was on the phone with Bingham's yesterday they reccommend re-drawing the centerline on the back of the limb before you do the layout before cutting the limb. This would take into account for that top lamination of glass shifting slightly in the press during glue-up. They don't re-mark the centerline in the instructions.... I think I'll re-measure/mark the back center line this time and see how far off it is in relation to the belly centerline. (The belly centerline should be pretty close to dead-on as it sits on the bottom of the form and doesn't move around during the gluing up in the press.


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

Wheelie_Pete said:


> I've done 5 limbs on the one blade now. Seems to be cutting pretty good still, slow, but still cuts...
> 
> I think the real limb problem with Bingham's plans is coming from the fact that they have you drill the limb holes from the belly on that centerline (because that's the flat side of the wedge), but you do the layout from the back of the limb on another centerline. If those two lines aren't EXACTLY on top of each other your alignment is going to be out of whack. On this next limb I get to remake I'm going to take some great pains to make sure those centerlines are perfect and see how it goes. The reason they have you do the layout on the back of the limb instead of the belly is so that it's easier to cut in the bandsaw. Heck I may just do the layout this time on the belly of the limb on the same centerline that I am drilling from. Cutting it is going to be a booger and I may end up just sanding the whole thing down to shape, but I'm really curious to see if that solves the alignment problems.
> 
> ...



Interseting point and one I noticed often but wasn't sure what to do about it. I even though of making some sort of clamp to clamp the sides of the limbs in place before pressure was applied.

The tape just didn't hold all that slippery stuff in place when pressure was applied.

I think some sort of system that allows the limbs to be drilled BEFORE glueing up and inserting something to keep them from shifting.

Quite the delima!


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

This a pic of the bows I made for my sons. One the left is a recurve and the longbow on the right.

The riser on the recurve is my best, but the longbow is best overall.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

I acutally do clamp the sides of the glued-up lams when they are first in the press. I lightly clamp with a wide-jaw bar clamp the tip and tail portions of the limbs as they sit in the press (with the glue wet) I make sure the alignment is as good as possible and then I SLOWLY bring the form up to pressure with a bike pump. I've been contemplating on how to build some small side-rails for the form to keep everything in line when you lay it in and bring it up to pressure...


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

*Question for Willy Pete or Handirifle*

Is there any mechanism that aligns the limbs with the riser? As you know, compound bows have limb pockets. Do the takedown bows have anything other than friction?

Great looking bows by both of you!!

Thanks,
Allen


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

AllenRead said:


> Is there any mechanism that aligns the limbs with the riser? As you know, compound bows have limb pockets. Do the takedown bows have anything other than friction?
> 
> Great looking bows by both of you!!
> 
> ...



Allen
Yes there is. When you build the limb and riser, you put an alignment pin in the riser that DOES NOT pretrude through the limb back, so it is not visible when the bow is together.

Some makers use two limb bolts to accomplish the same thing, most use one. One less bolt to lose I figure.

Pete
One idea that has come to mind (actually two) is to make the form 2 1/2" wide (for 1 3/4" limbs) and insert pins along both sides that JUST allow the pieces to fit between them. Another is to make a sheet metal form of, say, 12ga metal or so, that forms a pocket to place the materials in. Either one could influence the pressue on the limb parts, at least a small amount. Not sure if it would be enough to be detrimental to the setup though.

Also, a form made slightly UNDERSIZE in width (maybe 1/8" total?), that would allow you to effectively clamp the pieces together from the sides.

Yet one more idea, (I'm full of 'em) is to predrill holes in each end of the layup pieces that lay over a pin in each end of the form bottom. The butt end hole could be the limb bolt hole later, and the forward piece would be cut off anyway.

A jig could be made to hold the pieces in place, before gluing up, to drill the holes in exactly the same place every time.


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## Landmine (Aug 28, 2006)

Pete,
can't wait to see finished product/masterpiece


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Well, I got a new top limb glued and rough cut to shape, but then realized when I strung the bow that the new limb is waaaaay stronger than the original bottom limb. I then realized that in order to make this work I would need to carve so material off the new top limb to make it tiller that I would pretty much be back to square one. So, I decided that I will also make a new bottom limb and have a new matched set of limbs. The original limbs are still good, they just weren't perfect to my standards, so I'll just keep them and make a quick riser for them and have a new bowfishing recurve. 

Another interesting note. I had my friend who is a mechanical engineer look at the bingham plans with me and he confirmed what I thoght I was seeing on their plans. The drawing for the limbs on the bingham plans is drawn partially on cad but the arc's for the limb layout are drawn by hand and they are not symmetrical. We both think this is why my layout has been having issues with one side being stronger than the other. I took the limb plans they sent me as the gospel and traced them exactly to my templates. Problem is that the two sides of the arc from tip to butt are not even...not even close. So, I gave a set of the plans to my friend and he's going to lay me out new limb patterns on mechanical desktop at his work and print me some new plans. He's going to make me some different dimensions too with regards to limb width at the tip (I feel Bingham's plans are too narrow at the tip and don't allow enough material for adjustments and corrections.)

So my next bow will be done on the new limb plans. I'm very interested to see if having plans that are perfectly symmetrically drawn will solve some of my limb headaches.


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## SaltySeaCaptain (Oct 7, 2006)

Nicely done, thanks for taking the time to document your work. 

Brian


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

**UPDATE TIME* December 23rd, 2006*

Well, I have the new limbs made, tillered, limb tips on, nocks cut in, tillered again, string grooves cut. Whew! After all that I'm very pleased to announce that the limbs look great, (not too skinny this time) my lower limb is approx 1/4" stronger on the brace height than the upper (perfect), overall brace height is perfect (forgot the # but it's right in where it should be.)

All I have left to do now is put the bolt pad overlays on, shape the but end of the limbs, finish sanding the limbs and then do my finish. I think I'm going to go to spar urathane again instead of polyurathane. The spar seems to be holding up better on limbs and not getting dinged up as fast.

So any way, here's pics from the original limbs that are now fancy wall ornaments (maybe I'll make a bowfishing rig out of them, they still function, they just didn't look perfect to me.) I'm using the same color scheme (Black/White Phenolic/Bubinga on top.)

Original limb tip, see how skinny that was? I just didn't like it...










Butt-end of limb. (Weasel Paw Print is my little trade mark. It's an inlay product called "Inlace".)










New Limb with limb pattern traced from my newly drawn CAD drawing of the limb pattern. This limb turned out WAY better than the limb that was drawn off of Bingham's Pattern. This time you'll notice I actually drew the perpendicular line of where the limb tip curve ends at 10". I think this really helped get the tip lined up right. I did the top layout, then I did the bottom.










Tillering the bow. I had to make a new longer tillering stick as the risder was already finished. I just cut a semi-circle in the 1x piece of wood and then lined that semi-circle with felt. Worked like a charm. The handle right there is the actual center-line of the bow, or at least close enough for tillering purposes.










This is the final brace. I had to take a bit off the bottom limb by sanding the back and belley of the lower limb as it was a tad stiff, but it cooperated just fine and gave me the tiller I wanted.










This bow was supposed to be a christmas present for "Landmine" who just chimed in on this thread earlier. His wife blew the surprise this was supposed to be, but whatchagonnado? Actually that worked out good for me because there's no way I could have gotten it done before x-mas with having to make another set of limbs. He's pretty stoked to get it though I'm sure. I'm glad I went ahead and re-made the limbs. This bow is going to shoot AWESOME. We're gonna have to bust some bunnies and coyotes in Eastern Oregon soon! (I've already been shooting it in the garage during the tillering process and it feels great in the hand! Good balance.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Oh, Bryan, you better start doing some weight llifting, this thing is pulling right around 55#. Getting it back isn't a problem, but holding it will be if you don't do some specific lifting to strengthen those back muscles. :wink: There ain't no "let-off" on this thing... :tongue:


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## rudy2 (Nov 22, 2006)

Hey I just read the thread and I have a few questions. Can anyone build one and are you using a book or instructions? It looks like fun. You'll have to tell us how it holds up over time.:wink:


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

This is the thrid one I've built this year. They hold up great. I've probably put five thousand arrows through my first bow and it just shoots like a dream. I bought the plans off of Bingham Projects. 

www.binghamprojects.com

I wouldn't say that anyone can build one of these. I figure the first bow cost me around $1000 to make considering that I bought some tools, made the heat box, the press, all the materials etc. I don't like borrowing or running around trying to find access to stuff; I'd rather own my equipment. I feel that you need a better than basic knowledge of wood working or fabrication principles to do a TD glass Lam bow. Results will vary with the amount of care you put into it...just like anything. My subsequent bows have run about $200-$300 depending on how many limbs I have to re-make  what wood I use, how much shop materials get used, glue, shipping, etc...don't even ask about labor...there's a lot of time there...I think I'll track the time on the next bow.


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## rudy2 (Nov 22, 2006)

OK Thanks


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## Landmine (Aug 28, 2006)

Looks awesome. Can't wait to lace a Jack rabbitt. I believe I even have some obsidian to make arrowheads. Worth the try.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

All finished. Shoots great. I also figured out how to make flemish braid strings. Shoots an average of 200fps through the chrony with Satellite 2940 carbon arrows 30.75" long with 100gr. tips.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Few more pics. I'm really happy with how the tips turned out. Black/white Phenolic with Bubinga top layer.


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## Landmine (Aug 28, 2006)

Bring on the Jack rabbits, carp, turkey, etc. Looks awesome. Can't wait to shoot it.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

*Correction* The arrows I was shooting through the chronograph were 29.75" long.

Hey Bryan, If you want to get a few arrows before the weekend so we can tune your new bow that would be sweet. I would recommend either some 2016 aluminum, or some carbons that have a deflection rating of around .500 I think Gold tip 3355 should work (I remember you got gold tip before). Longer is better when you are having them cut your arrows (I'm running 29.75"). Just get like 3 arrows, have them cut and glue in the inserts. Feathers will work the best, but this bow does have an elevated rest so you "could" shoot vanes. Will your fletching jig do feathers?


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## Landmine (Aug 28, 2006)

Already have some Gold tip 3555 with feathers. My jig has a helical twist. I believe feathers should be straight. I will need a new jig. I think a bentzinberger jig will do.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

We'll look at them this weekend when I come over the mountain. You can put either right or left wing feathers on if you are using a straight jig, but if you have a helical jig you need to use which ever wing of feather matches the helical of the jig. Right wing for right helical, left for left...


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## voodoofire1 (Jan 24, 2006)

Very Nice Work!! awesome bow, I just built my first, LOTS of work!!


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## Landmine (Aug 28, 2006)

I got to shoot the bow this weekend. It's awsome. Pete made a great bow. I'll have to thank my wife for buying it for me.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Those overlays are outstanding. One of the problems I see a lot with homemade bows is overbuilt tips. Yours look perfect! Nice work.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

Thank's for the compliment J. Since any weight added to the tips of the limbs untimately sacrifices arrow speed, I try for a blance between function and beauty. You need the phenolic layers for strength (FF string use) and the wood layer I think just adds a nice touch (I've been trying to coordinate the woods/phenolic colors on the tips/butt-ends of the limbs to the riser woods.) I shave everything down as far as I'm comfortable, and I like rounded lines.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

I try to do the same thing too, usually placing the phenolic between two laminations of wood.


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## Wheelie_Pete (Jun 5, 2006)

New project spy pics.


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