# Hoyt Xakt or WNS Vantage AX



## 123 4/8 P&Y (Jul 10, 2008)

1080g / 2.4#











1210g / 2.7#


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

If you’re planning on using it for both Oly and barebow, the extra weight of the Vantage will be beneficial. I really think it’s nicer in just about every way, actually. 

If I’m being completely honest: the Vantage is comparable to the $100 more expensive Winex, while the Xakt should have been $100 less.

And before someone thinks I just dislike Hoyt: I think the Arcos and Xceed are excellent risers and are competitive in their price ranges. I just don’t think Hoyt and “budget” or “entry level” go together. Their manufacturing and marketing costs are too high, and they no longer have the equipment for cost saving manufacturing techniques. So they have to save money on material and design instead, and the floor still isn’t low enough.


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## 123 4/8 P&Y (Jul 10, 2008)

FerrumVeritas said:


> If you’re planning on using it for both Oly and barebow, the extra weight of the Vantage will be beneficial. I really think it’s nicer in just about every way, actually.
> 
> If I’m being completely honest: the Vantage is comparable to the $100 more expensive Winex, while the Xakt should have been $100 less.
> 
> And before someone thinks I just dislike Hoyt: I think the Arcos and Xceed are excellent risers and are competitive in their price ranges. I just don’t think Hoyt and “budget” or “entry level” go together. Their manufacturing and marketing costs are too high, and they no longer have the equipment for cost saving manufacturing techniques. So they have to save money on material and design instead, and the floor still isn’t low enough.


I agree about the WNS appearing to be a better barebow riser. It looks like it carries more weight in the limb pockets. It also seems to have more overall mass forward.

I wish I knew more about the manufacturing process of each. I'm sure there are good threads on here about how risers are made, and what alloys are best. I probably just need to spend a little time with the search function.


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## chase128 (May 29, 2015)

Between those two definitely the WNS. Having helped many new barebow and olympic shooters get their first competitive equipment, the quality control of WNS in the mid and lower range always seems better than Hoyt. (This coming from someone who owns Hoyts from both mid and high level) 

That being said, for another option: If wanting a barebow/OR riser in the mid range, I am also a big fan of the Spigarelli Zen. The ones I have seen had amazing QC (1 for me, 2 for students), are light but with slots for BB specific weights, have a nicely deflexed design reminiscent of the GMX, and have a slightly wider adjustment range on the tiller bolts then most risers. I typically shoot it BB with 28oz of yost weights, but it feels great with a stabilizer system as well. (30-15-15 estreemo / stinger premium rods with 6-4-4 weights)


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## tassie_devil (Aug 15, 2018)

Have you considered something like the GIllo G2K?


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

tassie_devil said:


> Have you considered something like the GIllo G2K?


At this point, the G1 has come down enough in price that it’s competing with the Xakt and Vantage. 

It’s also a very solid riser for barebow and Olympic.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

The g2k is now fully machined so any comparison to the g1 isn't a good argument. If the g2k is a significant amount cheaper then I would go that route...but overall I would steer you to the motive... formerly the SF forged... it's great bow for barebow or Olympic... and most people could not outshoot it... especially from the beginner standpoint.


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Buy the one you like the look of most. Pick your max price then pick the one that looks best/best colour whatever takes your fancy. Pick the one that you don’t like the look of and you’ll be questioning your purchase in months.

For me the Hoyt grips are easier to get on with an have been around since 2006[?] so there are loads of good options. I haven’t shot the Xakt so can’t comment - seems like people are judging it because it looks simple. I do typically prefer the feel of the Hoyts when compared to the forged-machined Korean risers but that is very personal. The Xakt is very light so you’d likely need a lot of weight for barebow but people have shot BB with Fibrebows so it is not limiting either.

If you want an ultra low grip go with the Gillo. The Hoyt will only ever go “lowish”. Not sure about the WNS.

To be honest at this price point I’d be more likely to buy second hand. Either this price riser but much cheaper second hand (maybe 50% less) or the same amount of money to buy you the “mutts nuts” riser from few years ago.

So in summary... whatever looks good and is a great colour and doesn’t annoy the bank.

Stretch


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## tassie_devil (Aug 15, 2018)

stick monkey said:


> The g2k is now fully machined so any comparison to the g1 isn't a good argument. If the g2k is a significant amount cheaper then I would go that route...but overall I would steer you to the motive... formerly the SF forged... it's great bow for barebow or Olympic... and most people could not outshoot it... especially from the beginner standpoint.


I actually shoot the older WNS forged elite+ and agree that I’ll never outshoot it. Outstanding value for money (although if that is the priority I’d now look at the Sanlida Athletics 7 machined riser). I just recommended the G2K because if I had my time again I would prefer to support a company that comes on here and offers advice versus one of the ‘super-big mass producers’ - I have a lot of time for the Gillo brand. Price wise, it’s also in the ballpark that the OP was shopping in.


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

stick monkey said:


> The g2k is now fully machined so any comparison to the g1 isn't a good argument. If the g2k is a significant amount cheaper then I would go that route...but overall I would steer you to the motive... formerly the SF forged... it's great bow for barebow or Olympic... and most people could not outshoot it... especially from the beginner standpoint.


The G2K still has a 40# weight limit, limit on the amount of weight you can add to it for barebow, and is physically lighter than the G1. Since OP was asking about risers between $350-400, and the G1 is in this price range, I don’t see any advantage of getting the G2K over the G1.


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## Hikari (May 15, 2021)

I am taking the same route as you. I am completely new to archery, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I am interested in barebow and particularly field archery, so I am commenting on that form. I have not read very much about Olympic and the use of stabilization.

Having analyzed about every barebow tournament on the US and Europe from 2006 and on, one thing is clear for those getting into the top four, there is very little to show a particular riser as better (lot of variation in risers and when an archer changes there does not seem to be any change in performance). The most common use of weights is a one below the grip and one low on the riser, but there is variation there as well, from no weights to a single weight. The amount of weight is also different. Apparently, you cannot buy points.

For barebow, this is where is gets a bit fuzzy. Many archers seem to talk about the feel of the shot, but that seem to be when the limbs are slowing down, which is after the arrow has essentially left the bow. In that case, the overall mass of the bow will dampen that momentum, but that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the shot--the arrow is already on the way. Weights seem to add forgiveness to the system if you make a bad shot, but have little to do with the shot if perfectly executed (this is from a comment from a person at Gillo). Weights for barebow are to lower the center of gravity, but it is unclear where total mass or particular center of gravity is important (or a combination of the two and in what proportion is very unclear).

I also narrowed my choice down to a couple of bows, the Xakt, G1, and Arcos. Yesterday I bought the Xakt. The thing that really separated the Xakt was the weight--it is about 300g lighter than the other two. Archery is a physical sport and you are not just firing one arrow, but a ton over hours, or in the case of field, days. I can always add mass to the bow, but I can't take it away. Also, lowering the center of gravity requires less weight for a lighter bow than a heavier one, so I should be able to do that with the Xakt with less weights on the riser (that is the hypothesis). I have a background in hiking and mountaineering and the saying there is if you watch the ounces, the pounds will take care of themselves. You are going to have to lift and hold this weight. It adds up. (One thing I did not like about the Gillo G1 was the 3-D printed grip. I found a lot of comments on the comfort of that grip. It seems many replace the grip with the wooden Gillo version or a third party version, which adds to cost.)

I like the idea of an open limb pocket on the Xakt as it gives more flexibility. An enclosed limb pocket can hinder different limb dimensions--I thought all ILF limbs were the same, but I started reading there are variations among manufacturers. I read a few things about Uuhka limbs not fitting Gillo riser pockets. That is not an issue with the Xakt. But I have no idea about the WNS pockets, but from the image, there looks like a significant clearance. (The Gillo G1 and Hoyt Arcos might be different because their pockets are much deeper.)

My impression of the Xakt is very good. It looks a lot beefier in person. The finish is beautiful. The support behind the pockets look bigger in person than in the images as well. I would have no concerns about the quality of the the riser.

On a personal note, I am also attracted to simpler designs. I really liked the simplicity of the Xakt. With all my research I could not find anything that could point to a superiority of a particular riser over another, at least with in the same price range. The difference between the mid-range risers and high-end risers seem to be with slightly more features or specific limb types like formula limbs. But I could not find anything to suggest better outcomes (the Gillo G1 is still used by top archers in barebow even though it is not the most expensive or most current model). At that point, I just took the riser that most appealed to me and my sensibilities. (I also have a sense of humor and I find it funny that Hoyt chose a product name to convey accuracy and then spelt it wrong.  )

I would go for the one that appeals to you. I doubt there is any difference in performance between either, but there might be a big difference between what you enjoy.


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

There's a lot of misunderstanding in the above post.

The things it gets correct:

•You cannot buy points. Well, you kind of can, by paying for coaching and range time. But better equipment doesn't equal better scores*.

•Get a riser you like. Having equipment that is comfortable and fun to use improves your practice, and will eventually improve you as an archer. Mindset is super important.

*There's potentially an argument made about arrows here. More expensive arrows don't mean better scores though. Better matched arrows can improve your averages, however.

The things it gets wrong:

•Basically everything about weight. Heavier bows are more stable. You can go too heavy, but 1300-1400g shouldn't be close to that for an adult. Everything is about forgiveness. And the weights on the bottom is because of WA rules, not optimal setup. You want weight further out, and heavier limb pockets actually helps with this. Look at CD risers, or some of the stuff Border was doing with heavy limb bolts. The hypothesis about center of gravity is wrong, because it completely ignores limbs. The balance of a riser is more important for barebow than Olympic (where stabilization easily changes it). The Xakt has the least desirable balance of the options presented.

•Problems with ILF fitting have nothing to do with the lateral dimensions of a closed limb pocket. They have to do with the groove on the limbs fitting on the bolt, or the way the limb alignment system is used. Open limb pockets do not make your bow more compatible with a wider variety of limbs.

•Grips. More people disliked that the Gillo grips were yellow than they did the feel. Newer G1s don't have that issue. The stock Hoyt grips are too high for stringwalking. Virtually everyone shooting a Hoyt riser barebow replaces them (including their sponsored shooters). The WNS grip is a pretty happy medium. 

I'm sure you'll shoot fine with the Xakt. I don't think it's a bad bow. I just think it's badly priced compared to other choices in the market.


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## Hikari (May 15, 2021)

FerrumVeritas said:


> The things it gets wrong:
> 
> •Basically everything about weight. Heavier bows are more stable. You can go too heavy, but 1300-1400g shouldn't be close to that for an adult. Everything is about forgiveness. And the weights on the bottom is because of WA rules, not optimal setup. You want weight further out, and heavier limb pockets actually helps with this. Look at CD risers, or some of the stuff Border was doing with heavy limb bolts. The hypothesis about center of gravity is wrong, because it completely ignores limbs. The balance of a riser is more important for barebow than Olympic (where stabilization easily changes it). The Xakt has the least desirable balance of the options presented.


This is very useful. Thanks. Can you point to sources because I could not find anything on overall riser weight or the use of barebow weights except on personal preference. I would love to read some analysis on this. There is certainly a great variation in bow weight at the professional level. The only discussions around this topic that I could see was mostly anecdotal.



> •Problems with ILF fitting have nothing to do with the lateral dimensions of a closed limb pocket. They have to do with the groove on the limbs fitting on the bolt, or the way the limb alignment system is used. Open limb pockets do not make your bow more compatible with a wider variety of limbs.


Thanks for the clarification. I was not entirely sure on this.



> •Grips. More people disliked that the Gillo grips were yellow than they did the feel. Newer G1s don't have that issue. The stock Hoyt grips are too high for stringwalking. Virtually everyone shooting a Hoyt riser barebow replaces them (including their sponsored shooters). The WNS grip is a pretty happy medium.


You might be right about the color, but the rationale given that I read was the surface of the printed Gillo grip was rough and needed sanding. It was just not comfortable with long use. Now, perhaps they are justifying not liking the color, but it does appear to be a common comment. Or maybe the printing is getting better over time?


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## Hikari (May 15, 2021)

FerrumVeritas said:


> •The stock Hoyt grips are too high for stringwalking. Virtually everyone shooting a Hoyt riser barebow replaces them (including their sponsored shooters). The WNS grip is a pretty happy medium.


And thanks for pointing this out. I understand the Hoyt grip has mixed reviews. Jager has a John Demer III grip that does seem to be popular. Buying for the first time is been really difficult with sorting out all the information out there. I may end up end up replacing it, but I need a lot more experience under my belt with this riser. Not sure my biggest hurdle is the grip right now.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

FV: "The stock Hoyt grips are too high for stringwalking." Why is that? Curious since it's not the hand doing the string walking. I ask because I have the Demmer grip and it has an extremely low angle compared to any stock Hoyt/W&W grip I have used.


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## styks n stryngs (Jan 6, 2015)

Seattlepop said:


> FV: "The stock Hoyt grips are too high for stringwalking." Why is that? Curious since it's not the hand doing the string walking. I ask because I have the Demmer grip and it has an extremely low angle compared to any stock Hoyt/W&W grip I have used.


For me, it's because when you stringwalk, you change the vertical angle of the bow, meaning the bow is angled more forward the further down you are addressing the string. This means the riser is essentially leaning forward, and with an already high grip, this makes it hard to shoot a strong shot if your wrists aren't near superhuman. I also have thin wrists anyways, so ymmv.
edited typo


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

^
Great explanation, thanks!


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

Basically that. A lower grip angle allows you to maintain a more consistent bow angle over a larger crawl. The stock Gillo grip is pretty good for this, and the stock WNS one isn't bad. If I were shooting a Hoyt, I'd consider the Sjef grip from Triple Trouble Archery, the JD3 from Jager, or an RCore grip. I think barebow archers are the most likely to order a custom grip though.


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Have you shot the Sjef grip? It may look low but it isn’t really. Initial angle is not far off the standard Hoyt. It is rounded but shoots very much like a medium-high in my opinion. In many ways the body is similar to the Hoyt Radian in shape (metal throat etc aside). It is higher than the Jager ll grip for example.

2c

Stretch


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## 123 4/8 P&Y (Jul 10, 2008)

I'm not scared to modify a grip. I have a Tbow that I was using for hunting. With a very deep fixed crawl, the factory grip was causing me a lot of discomfort in the web of my hand. So I took a rasp and sander to it until it was a low. It helped a lot.


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

UK_Stretch said:


> Have you shot the Sjef grip? It may look low but it isn’t really. Initial angle is not far off the standard Hoyt. It is rounded but shoots very much like a medium-high in my opinion. In many ways the body is similar to the Hoyt Radian in shape (metal throat etc aside). It is higher than the Jager ll grip for example.
> 
> 2c
> 
> Stretch


I haven’t. That’s good to know.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

FerrumVeritas said:


> The G2K still has a 40# weight limit, limit on the amount of weight you can add to it for barebow, and is physically lighter than the G1. Since OP was asking about risers between $350-400, and the G1 is in this price range, I don’t see any advantage of getting the G2K over the G1.


He shouldn't be jumping in at 40 lbs or anywhere near and let's be real... anyone willing to jump in the mid price range will likely go high end in less than 2 years. I have shot more barebow than most...i was barebow before barebow was cool...and I think 35 will get it done everyday... and the 40 lb limit was likely before it was machined. I would not be afraid to go over 40 with a quality looking product that was fully machined. Just my two cents.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Just few words about GK limit in poundage. No one can make a riser with low sections and very light without giving some limits in poundage. If the riser is forged, strength is a bit better, if casted, strength is unexisting, if made by 707X alloy, strength is again a bit better. Manufacturers usually do not specify any limit in poundage starting by the practical consideration that light and cheap risers are used by beginners, women, and children, and by definition, these will never use anything more than 36# in practical shooting.
The problem really comes if someone wants to use such kinds of risers with heavy poundages. How heavy? It is quite difficult to define a limit, as it also involves how light are the arrows, how stiff is the string, and so on. Life of the riser becomes short and structural sudden crashes may be very dangerous (more on casted than on milled /forged) for the user.
So when I realized that too many G2 buyers were not considering the natural limits of a light riser, going over 44# and more for it, and getting it broken,I decided that we needed to specify maximum poundage for it, for user's and our safety as well.
Why 40# ? Again is a conventional number, as bigger than the usual 34-36# of casted risers, but for sure far from the G1 limit tested in practical use > 50#
Can the G3 25 for instance be used at 65#? We have had someone shooting a few arrows with it at 65#, and it was slightly bending at full traction, but still consistent during shots. Better to stay under 60# with it in any case, was the conclusion. But no need to specify it. 
In short, I will never suggest using a 1 Kg Aluminium 25" riser with more than 36#, independently from the technology used to make it. If not breaking, it will bend for sure over that limit.


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## ItsJim (Jul 29, 2016)

123 4/8 P&Y said:


> I'm fixin to buy my first 25" riser. I want to set it up as an Olympic style bow, and I will undoubtedly strip it down and shoot it barebow style as well. I prefer not to start with a $150 riser because I know I'll want to upgrade right away. So I'm shopping for a good mid priced handle. The Hoyt Xakt and the WNS Vantage AX are my top two contenders. I will appreciate any feedback on both models, and if anyone has suggestions for other risers in this price range, I'm all ears.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


As another has said, it's hard to beat the Gillo G1 for a "dual-purpose" riser, Olympic & Barebow - Gillo G1 25" Recurve Riser (Matte)
I;ve been enjoying mine for about 4 years.


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## 123 4/8 P&Y (Jul 10, 2008)

ItsJim said:


> As another has said, it's hard to beat the Gillo G1 for a "dual-purpose" riser, Olympic & Barebow - Gillo G1 25" Recurve Riser (Matte)
> I;ve been enjoying mine for about 4 years.


Wow Lancaster has a good deal on those. You guys are making a strong case for the Gillo. 


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

If nothing else, Vittorio is one of a very few bow designers and engineers that actively participates in the archery community (Calvin and Dewayne do too, but I don’t think a CD riser would be pleasant to shoot Oly).


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Hikari said:


> You might be right about the color, but the rationale given that I read was the surface of the printed Gillo grip was rough and needed sanding. It was just not comfortable with long use. Now, perhaps they are justifying not liking the color, but it does appear to be a common comment. Or maybe the printing is getting better over time?


RECURVE folks have modified their recurve grips for decades. Use Sugru, use bondo, use plumbers putty, etc.
Shape to rough size, and then, sand to the exact profile that gives tighter groups. Factory grips are simply a foundation to the custom molded grip shape.


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