# How to tie and install a Catfish / torqueless string loop



## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

After experimenting with a few methods of doing string loops, I have recently decided to go with the Catfish/torqueless method. I made a couple of videos demonstrating the method; you can see the full article at ArcheryReport.com: *http://archeryreport.com/2010/07/tie-catfishtorqueless-bowstring-loop/
*


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## cjkozik (Jan 31, 2007)

what is the distance between the nails


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

cjkozik said:


> what is the distance between the nails


In that video for the loop that is installed below the nock set (first method in the installation video) the nails are 2 1/2" apart. If I make a loop that is installed above and below the nock set (second in the installation video) I have used nails 2 3/4" to 3" apart.


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## rrambo (Jul 6, 2010)

Widgeon said:


> In that video for the loop that is installed below the nock set (first method in the installation video) the nails are 2 1/2" apart. If I make a loop that is installed above and below the nock set (second in the installation video) I have used nails 2 3/4" to 3" apart.


Thanks for doing this!! I've never had a regular tied on d-loop fail, but I cringe every time I draw thinking it will let go.. don't remember if you mentioned in the video, but did you use regular serving thread?? same for serving a peep, etc..? I'm going to definitely try this!


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

rrambo said:


> Thanks for doing this!! I've never had a regular tied on d-loop fail, but I cringe every time I draw thinking it will let go.. don't remember if you mentioned in the video, but did you use regular serving thread?? same for serving a peep, etc..? I'm going to definitely try this!


The loop in the thread was tied with Spectra serving (Brownell), which I use on occasion to also tie in peeps, but have quit using as a center serving. What I like about it for loops is that it is very limp and when installed on the string imparts no torque at all no matter how you turn your release. I have also used .022 Crown Center Serving (Brownell as well) and it works great but is a little bit stiffer overall. I would guess that just about any modern, quality center serving will work just fine, it's just a matter of experimenting a little with the total number of wraps to get the diameter and stiffness that you want.


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## petrey10 (Oct 24, 2008)

i actually just made one last night and was going to make a youtube video... I haven't shot that bow yet as I don't have a rest for it but when I do I will post up here to see how I like it... I will say that my first one was way too skinny and it wouldn't work with my double caliper release and I ended up draw half back then it let go and punched myself in the mouth soooo make sure you make it thick enough!! I set my nails about 3'' apart.


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## petrey10 (Oct 24, 2008)

I used string material (452x) for the "string" and then served over it with .17halo


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## rrambo (Jul 6, 2010)

petrey10 said:


> i actually just made one last night and was going to make a youtube video... I haven't shot that bow yet as I don't have a rest for it but when I do I will post up here to see how I like it... I will say that my first one was way too skinny and it wouldn't work with my double caliper release and I ended up draw half back then it let go and punched myself in the mouth soooo make sure you make it thick enough!! I set my nails about 3'' apart.


Yikes!! I'll definitely err on the side of too thick then.. maybe 16-18 strands.


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

rrambo said:


> Yikes!! I'll definitely err on the side of too thick then.. maybe 16-18 strands.


Yeh, that is definitely not the preferred method to test the thickness! I shoot for a loop that is a bit smaller than my bowstring. Sixteen strands is generally a good place to start.


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## petrey10 (Oct 24, 2008)

haha gee thanks guys.... my last one that worked well was 12 strands then wrapped in .17 halo... works great!!


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## Dan Belman (Mar 21, 2007)

*Thanks*

Very nice ,Thank you!:thumbs_up


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## Gunner7800 (Jul 11, 2007)

So for a comparison of size, how many strands of material and what diameter of serving would create a loop that is about the same diameter as the d-loop material from bcy? 

I would like to try one of these and find that the bcy loop rope is a perfect fit for my release.


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## foxpro80 (Jun 20, 2009)

I like it!!!


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

Gunner7800 said:


> So for a comparison of size, how many strands of material and what diameter of serving would create a loop that is about the same diameter as the d-loop material from bcy?
> 
> I would like to try one of these and find that the bcy loop rope is a perfect fit for my release.


Brownell Crown Serving, .022, will take about 12 strands to get that diameter.


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## pbuck (Mar 30, 2010)

*Thanks*

Very nice video and instructions. Thanks for posting it.:thumbs_up


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## PowerLineman83 (Nov 15, 2009)

*Great info*

I just want to say thank you! It's guys like you that allow me to learn more and more about archery and setting up, tuning and maintaining my own equipment. Gives a sense of price and saves me on trips to my local pro shop!:wink:


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## PowerLineman83 (Nov 15, 2009)

that was supposed to be PRIDE not price!


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## 1trackmind (Apr 6, 2008)

What size servin did you use?


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

1trackmind said:


> What size servin did you use?


I've used .020" with 14 strands and .022" with 12 strands mostly. The video shows the .020".


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## 1trackmind (Apr 6, 2008)

Widgeon said:


> I've used .020" with 14 strands and .022" with 12 strands mostly. The video shows the .020".


Thanks man


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## Barehunter (Feb 10, 2007)

Loved the video. Great job! However, I like to use my loop to help with exact alignment with peep and I assume that if it is free to rotate on the string that might not be possible (?)


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

Barehunter said:


> Loved the video. Great job! However, I like to use my loop to help with exact alignment with peep and I assume that if it is free to rotate on the string that might not be possible (?)


Thanks!

You cannot use this type of loop to align your peep unless you tie it in tight and defeats some of the purpose of using this style of loop. Using a loop to align your peep adds one more bit of variability in your setup and you are better off to get the peep to be aligned by adding or removing 1/2 a twist in your string here and there and/or fine tuning the peep sight by trading string strands across the peep.


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## Barehunter (Feb 10, 2007)

Widgeon said:


> Thanks!
> 
> You cannot use this type of loop to align your peep unless you tie it in tight and defeats some of the purpose of using this style of loop. Using a loop to align your peep adds one more bit of variability in your setup and you are better off to get the peep to be aligned by adding or removing 1/2 a twist in your string here and there and/or fine tuning the peep sight by trading string strands across the peep.


Yeah...I do try to keep mine perfectly aligned without depending on the loop but if it starts to drift a little, sometimes I'll will let the loop do the work. I used a "knotless loop" for a long time, but recently bought a Carter Squeeze Me release and the knotless loop wouldn't fit in the release. May give your catfish loop a try one of these days. Thanks for sharing.


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

Barehunter said:


> Yeah...I do try to keep mine perfectly aligned without depending on the loop but if it starts to drift a little, sometimes I'll will let the loop do the work. I used a "knotless loop" for a long time, but recently bought a Carter Squeeze Me release and the knotless loop wouldn't fit in the release. May give your catfish loop a try one of these days. Thanks for sharing.


It's always worth learning things even if you don't use them. In the end it's finding what works best for you and your equipment.


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## giddi1820 (Mar 30, 2009)

If you don't mind sharing what is the distance between the nails on your jig?


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

Widgeon said:


> In that video for the loop that is installed below the nock set (first method in the installation video) the nails are 2 1/2" apart. If I make a loop that is installed above and below the nock set (second in the installation video) I have used nails 2 3/4" to 3" apart.


There ya go!


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## Koorsboom (Dec 13, 2008)

I have been shooting one on my Mojo for about a year now and it works great.

For interest sake, why is it called a catfish loop? The ones I saw in Sout Africa are called bat loops by the way ...


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

Koorsboom said:


> For interest sake, why is it called a catfish loop? The ones I saw in Sout Africa are called bat loops by the way ...


From what I understand, and I could be completely wrong, is that the fellow who originally posted this method of making a loop went by "catfish".


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

The article ended up getting a lot more attention than I originally anticipated and so I've updated it with more details and pictures to answer the questions I've been getting.

http://archeryreport.com/2010/08/tie-catfishtorqueless-bowstring-loop/


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## Koorsboom (Dec 13, 2008)

What is the length of the loops that you leave unserved at the ends for the loop that straddles the ncok sets? I watched the first clip and part of the second one and did not hear you mention that anywhere.

Thanks for some great info ... you sorted out problems I have had in the past fitting the loops over my bow string.


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

Koorsboom said:


> What is the length of the loops that you leave unserved at the ends for the loop that straddles the ncok sets? I watched the first clip and part of the second one and did not hear you mention that anywhere.
> 
> Thanks for some great info ... you sorted out problems I have had in the past fitting the loops over my bow string.


A great question and one that I neglected to answer! I just took a picture of one with a tape measure and posted it in the article. The loops are just over 3/4" and the served area just under 1"; this is for nails 2 1/2" apart. Some of the ones I have done have about 3/4" serving in the middle and they work quite well. You may have to do a little experimenting yourself to find your optimum style, but this is a good start for anyone.


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## scoot27 (Mar 13, 2010)

This is an aweasome way to tie a loop, never seen it before! Thanks for sharin!!


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## clint s (Aug 31, 2008)

Great idea, 8 strand works well with a talon head tru ball release, on a lower poundage bow.


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## clint s (Aug 31, 2008)

has anyone tried using bowstring material rather than serving material for the loop part?


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## AmishArcher (Feb 6, 2008)

i think i like this better than a d loop. 

It looked in the vid like it stays fairly loose on the bow, is that right? a D loop will tighten up and be a bear to adjust when you're BH tuning, but then it stays in place too. How does this work in relation to that kinda thing?


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## daltongang (Jul 29, 2009)

what is the life of one of these? I mean how many shots will on take?


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## Dilligaf (Dec 25, 2005)

That's a Clint Freeman loopy where did the catfish thing come from


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

daltongang said:


> what is the life of one of these? I mean how many shots will on take?


If tied and used properly, it could last as long as your bowstring does.


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## giddi1820 (Mar 30, 2009)

ttt


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## PSE Kid (Nov 22, 2008)

hey, i have done 4 that dont work, i have tried from 2.5 inches-3 inches, for the 2nd way in the instalation video, the other way works fine, but they wont slide over my speed nocks on my omen. i dont know, but would it be a problem if i only did say .5 inch serving in the middle?


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

PSE Kid said:


> hey, i have done 4 that dont work, i have tried from 2.5 inches-3 inches, for the 2nd way in the instalation video, the other way works fine, but they wont slide over my speed nocks on my omen. i dont know, but would it be a problem if i only did say .5 inch serving in the middle?


You could try less serving; the biggest issue would be making sure that the serving stays put. Might even want to try a tiny bit of super glue on the end of the served area where you pull the tag end of the serving through.


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## Christopher67 (Nov 13, 2009)

Great videos, thanks! :thumbs_up


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## redbone311 (Sep 6, 2010)

Thank you for posting this. I will be making one for my bow. Thanks to you!


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## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

TTT, good stuff.


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## SeeMont (Jan 18, 2011)

I find this interesting, Thanks. I was unaware that there was any other tie than the D loop. I have had the fun of having a D loop come apart on my and after that happens I don't want that to happen again. One question, the Catfish seems to have been used for Target shooting, How does it work for hunting? I tied one up and am about ready to install. Thanks again.


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

SeeMont said:


> I find this interesting, Thanks. I was unaware that there was any other tie than the D loop. I have had the fun of having a D loop come apart on my and after that happens I don't want that to happen again. One question, the Catfish seems to have been used for Target shooting, How does it work for hunting? I tied one up and am about ready to install. Thanks again.


I use the under-the-nock style for hunting myself. Once you get some practice loading with it, it is just as easy as any d-loop.


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## hdsht16 (Sep 25, 2011)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't putting the loop under the nock set change your anchor point or change the flight path of the arrow?


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

my thought also.


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

hdsht16 said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't putting the loop under the nock set change your anchor point or change the flight path of the arrow?


It should not change your anchor point one bit. It may change the distance from the peep to the nock, but your anchor point should remain identical. Likewise, the flight of the arrow is not affected.

Like any change to your equipment, it may affect other things that you will have to change/adapt. I ended up moving my peep slightly and for me, the benefits are worth the effort!


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## hdsht16 (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks for your insight Widgeon. I think I'm going to try this out.


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

hdsht16 said:


> Thanks for your insight Widgeon. I think I'm going to try this out.


Let us know how it goes!


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## Widgeon (Jul 17, 2009)

oops, mistake post =/


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