# PA Hunters Watch Out! Game Commission is Getting Greedy



## Kighty7 (Feb 7, 2004)

I guess the state legislatures are not the only ones who want more money. I just heard a news report that the Game Commission wants to raise the liscence price to $30.00 next year. Tell me it is not so! I am so frustrated with the GC right now I want to vomit! I also just checked the web site and my area 1B is sold out. I guess my friends from out of state will stay away from hunting camp this year. No doe tags for them so they will not bother to buy a regular liscence. Do the people in the GC know what they are doing? First they write the slaughter of all the doe and young bucks, then they tell me I can't harvest anything that has less than 4 points to a side, yet a 12-16 year old can shoot anything they please. I have watched many of my friend in the area sell their hunting stuff and quit all together! So of them now only hunt out of state. The GC is turning a billion $ business into a smaller business. I was wondering what anyone else thinks or knows about the subject.


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## bukhuntr (Aug 22, 2003)

well lets see, do i have a problem with a license increase.
no pheasants
a few grouse
very few deer in the area i hunt
can't hunt on sunday
most private land posted or leased.

why would i have a problem, obviously the powers to be are doing a bang up job managing our wildlife and habitat. i'm not anti game commission but where are the changes for the better? for years hunters and sportsman alike have expressed their concerns to no avail. now in just a couple of years the gc has done what peta couldn't, " get people to quit hunting".
so i guess if there is an increase, it will be to make up for all the revenue their going to lose and not to improve the quality and quantity of game and habitat. i know everyone has differing opinions and this is just mine. thanks


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## Firestorm_05 (Aug 9, 2005)

Yeah, I cant wait. I didnt see enough deer last year to amount to anything. Not to mention the game lands dont have near enought feed plots to keep the deer in the woods, so they naturally travel to populated areas to eat. Cost me almost 60 bucks this year. I wonder how much beef that will buy. I dont even bother with rifle season anymore, I'll go to camp but I'll concentrate more on archery season.

Edit: Just checked my WMU 4D, only 5000 remaining, get em while they're hot.

Chris


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Well, I have a few problems with the PGC but license costs, even at $30.00 isn't one of them. PA hase one of the cheaper license structures in the country.

Regarding some of the game populations, let's get real on the pheasant thing. There is no real pheasant habitat left in Pennsylvania. Not only should we write them off as a PA game species, but the PGC should do away with the rest of the stocking program. If people want to go shoot penned birds there are a hundred preserves across the State where you can do just that and you don't even NEED a license.

Regarding grouse, wait a few years. They'll bounce back. Their populations are very cyclical. There is good grouse habitat in the state. 

As far as deer, no doubt the PGC has gone overboard on reductions the last few years. The good news is, leave the deer alone for a bit and there will be more around then you can shake a stick at. They should never let the population get as high as it was a few years ago though. I would like to see them start applying science to deer management instead of politics. 

The two biggest things that need to change is hunting on Sunday and having to have the doe permits go through the countyr treasurers. We have one of the most sophisticated on-line licensing systems available but for doe tags we have to mail in those stupid yellow envelopes that nobody wants to give you and the county treasurer sends you a tag when they get around to it. 

I do think it is a travesty that they charge non-residents so much and then make them wait to apply for a doe tag. That would be truly maddening if you were a non-resident landowner.


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## Dredly (May 10, 2005)

I have no problem paying extra for a license, hunting or fishing. I know that our Fish and Wildlife divsions are getting massively screwed as far as money goes and I respect the job that they do (in most cases)

Will I pay the 30 extra? Yup! Will I pay extra for my Archery Stamp? YUP! Will I hunt enough to make it worth the money?

YOUR DAMN RIGHT I WILL!


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## phatbowman1 (Apr 27, 2005)

yea come on guys, this is not worth complaining about where can you have that much fun for an entire year for 30 buks? no where


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

Kighty7 said:


> I guess the state legislatures are not the only ones who want more money. I just heard a news report that the Game Commission wants to raise the liscence price to $30.00 next year. Tell me it is not so! I am so frustrated with the GC right now I want to vomit! I also just checked the web site and my area 1B is sold out. I guess my friends from out of state will stay away from hunting camp this year. No doe tags for them so they will not bother to buy a regular liscence. Do the people in the GC know what they are doing? First they write the slaughter of all the doe and young bucks, then they tell me I can't harvest anything that has less than 4 points to a side, yet a 12-16 year old can shoot anything they please. I have watched many of my friend in the area sell their hunting stuff and quit all together! So of them now only hunt out of state. The GC is turning a billion $ business into a smaller business. I was wondering what anyone else thinks or knows about the subject.


According to the newspaper article I read yesterday, you heard almost right. But I'm pretty sure that it's just in a preliminary proposal stage. It wouldn't be voted on until next year, and wouldn't go into effect until you buy your license in 2007. So I wouldn't fret about something two years down the road. 

IMHO, I don't think 30 bucks is that much. If they would leave the ML and archery stamps at the same price, the additional 10 bucks won't be a big deal. My total package right now cost something like $47.00. If they only raise the basic license, no big deal. Now if they raise the price of the stamps, I might become more concerned.

Hey...look at the other real problem. If the price of gas doesn't stop climbing, we won't need to buy a hunting license. No one will be able to afford to drive anywhere to go hunting. Unless you live within walking distance.

I think we've got a lot more bigger things to worry about than the price of our hunting licenses going up 10 bucks by 2007.


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## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

If you think $30.00 is too much to pay to support hunting in your State then I think its time to give it up. Especially if you fell that giving the youth a chance at any deer is wrong.


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

Mr. October said:


> Well, I have a few problems with the PGC but license costs, even at $30.00 isn't one of them. PA hase one of the cheaper license structures in the country.
> 
> Regarding some of the game populations, let's get real on the pheasant thing. There is no real pheasant habitat left in Pennsylvania. Not only should we write them off as a PA game species, but the PGC should do away with the rest of the stocking program. If people want to go shoot penned birds there are a hundred preserves across the State where you can do just that and you don't even NEED a license.
> 
> ...


I agree with just about everything you said. With the exception of making non-residents wait to apply for a doe tag and the price they charge. I think non-residents should have to wait. In some areas, competition for the permits is heavy enough just with resident hunters. Let the non-residents apply at the same time, and there will be a lot of hunters who live in PA that don't get their tag. I don't think this is fair. I firmly believe the non-residents should have to settle for "second fiddle". Even if they do own land. If they don't live here, make 'em wait. And as far as the cost...heck, if I hunt most of the other surrounding states it will cost me just as much as it cost them to hunt here. Doesn't it? I've never hunting one of the other states as a non-resident.

But residents should have the first chance at the permits. I firmly believe that. That's one thing I don't like about the elk permit drawing. :sad:


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

kidnutso said:


> According to the newspaper article I read yesterday, you heard almost right. But I'm pretty sure that it's just in a preliminary proposal stage. It wouldn't be voted on until next year, and wouldn't go into effect until you buy your license in 2007. So I wouldn't fret about something two years down the road.
> 
> IMHO, I don't think 30 bucks is that much. If they would leave the ML and archery stamps at the same price, the additional 10 bucks won't be a big deal. My total package right now cost something like $47.00. If they only raise the basic license, no big deal. Now if they raise the price of the stamps, I might become more concerned.
> 
> ...


I totally agree, we are headed for some rough times all around if something doesn't change. Texas is getting a big landfall in Federal money for transportation, part of it is to assure that more people have a diff. mode of transportation, such as bus and bikes. The idea is to force people out of their cars and into a bus or bike to save fuel, I guess but gouging folks out of their hard earned money is not kosher with me. People on fixed incomes are really hurting these days while the mogul oil people are rolling in dough! :thumbs_do


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

It's all about the numbers, and money, and kickbacks, that's the bottom line---in 1999 PA sold 328,451 bowhunter licenses. In 2004, they sold 284,493. Somebody is going to pay for the reduction in overall license sales, even tho the deer population is now WAY down in PA, almost non-existant now in some of the heavily-hunted areas. Unfortunately, the PGC thinks they can have it all and keep tagging the bowhunters for it, and so far they are getting away with it, at least with many. Eventually all are going to wise up.

Giving out close to 3 million doe tags in 3 years does nothing to help quantity or quality of bucks, it simply helps cull the herd to rediculous numbers, which helps the insurance companies, farmers, etc, but does little for the hunting community.(But yet WE pay for it!???!) This is probably where the kickbacks come in too... 

Our group has been hunting PA for close to 20 years, but for the first time since we setup camp there we will be going elsewhere this fall simply due to the lack of deer in the area. Thanks PGC, but no thanks, the well has run dry with us. :thumbs_do 

Oh, well, PA is still beautiful country, and it makes for a good vacation spot in the summer....  

Hopefully someday there will be deer near our camp again. But if things continue as-is by the time that comes licenses will probably be $500 and you'll have to give up your firstborn for a doe tag. Yeah, a little bitter here, sorry...we've invested alot of years and money there only to have it all stripped away in a short time by those with alterior motives..

Anyway, good luck to all this year. JMHO, Pinwheel 12


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## gumba (Oct 8, 2004)

I don't mind paying 30-50 bucks to hunt but I think it will get worse. What really bothers me about the Game Comission is this 4 point per side rule they put into affect. I think they are attempting to make PA a trophy state to bring in more out of state hunters (more money). I wonder how many hunters had to pass on nice 4 and 6 pointers because of that rule.
I'm no biologist but I would think if you wanted to increase the number of quality buck you don't kill off the deer with the good genes, you kill the ones with the scrawny racks.  
Throw in the overlapping seasons: special muzzeloader, turkey, squirrel etc. with the archery season and the decrease in available hunting areas and the number of hunters wiil decrease. Maybe that is what they should be concerned about.


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

gumba said:


> I don't mind paying 30-50 bucks to hunt but I think it will get worse. What really bothers me about the Game Comission is this 4 point per side rule they put into affect. I think they are attempting to make PA a trophy state to bring in more out of state hunters (more money). I wonder how many hunters had to pass on nice 4 and 6 pointers because of that rule.
> I'm no biologist but I would think if you wanted to increase the number of quality buck you don't kill off the deer with the good genes, you kill the ones with the scrawny racks.
> Throw in the overlapping seasons: special muzzeloader, turkey, squirrel etc. with the archery season and the decrease in available hunting areas and the number of hunters wiil decrease. Maybe that is what they should be concerned about.



I know I had to pass on a nice 4-pointer, 20 yd quartering away last year in Fayette County. Nice 4 point rack, but he had no brow tines. It was a heart breaker. I for one am only out for the meat. I could care less about the racks. If there happens to be a legal one on the deer...great...but I'd take a doe as soon as I would a buck for what I want it for.


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## gumba (Oct 8, 2004)

I


> know I had to pass on a nice 4-pointer, 20 yd quartering away last year in Fayette County. Nice 4 point rack, but he had no brow tines. It was a heart breaker. I for one am only out for the meat. I could care less about the racks. If there happens to be a legal one on the deer...great...but I'd take a doe as soon as I would a buck for what I want it for.


 Oh man! That stinks! An opportuinty to take a deer with a bow doesn't come that often in a hunting season (at least where I hunt it doesn't).


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## stew (Jun 15, 2005)

To be honest, I don't think $30.00 for a hunting lisence is all that much. Even adding in the extras you still have an opportunity to hunt all year ( varmits ). Don't know of any other sport that makes it that affordable for that period of a time.


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## Spiker (Oct 25, 2004)

I personally don't mind spending the extra money either. We have gone thru some rought times recently, but I believe we will start to see a change over the next few years. Sometimes it takes hitting the bottom before people realize something needs to change.


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## retro-grouch (Mar 19, 2005)

If a liscense were to triple, I would pay it. I pay for the privilege to hunt. There is no entitlement to a harvest. For the money I pay, I hunt at least 100 hours a year. Mostly bowhunting of which about 1/2 of the time is big woods north of I-80. Missed my biggest buck ever last year, and saw numerous deer in a public land up there.

I also had to let two different sub-legal bucks walk on the last two days of archery in my home county of Westmd. Both bucks were less than 10 yards and as I hunt on the ground, the experience of those last two evenings was worth every penny I spent last year.

If you are pissing and moaning about the cost of a liscense in PA, then you probably suffer from two ailments. One is that you focus way too much on those damned antlered forest rats and secondly, you think that your liscense should garuntee you to shoot game. Sorry. It don't work that way.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

kidnutso said:


> I agree with just about everything you said. With the exception of making non-residents wait to apply for a doe tag and the price they charge. I think non-residents should have to wait. In some areas, competition for the permits is heavy enough just with resident hunters. Let the non-residents apply at the same time, and there will be a lot of hunters who live in PA that don't get their tag. I don't think this is fair. I firmly believe the non-residents should have to settle for "second fiddle". Even if they do own land. If they don't live here, make 'em wait. And as far as the cost...heck, if I hunt most of the other surrounding states it will cost me just as much as it cost them to hunt here. Doesn't it? I've never hunting one of the other states as a non-resident.
> 
> But residents should have the first chance at the permits. I firmly believe that. That's one thing I don't like about the elk permit drawing. :sad:


You have a bit of a point but with PA property taxes I'd at least like to see those that own land here have a chance to get a permit. The problem is if they aren't happy they are going to post land that would otherwise be open. If they aren't allowed to hunt why would they let anyone else? Also, remember that non-residents pay _a lot_ more money. For that they should be at least given the chance to get a tag. I hunt NJ and tags are plentiful there for everyone. I don't believe New York, Ohio, or Maryland discriminate against non-hunters either. 

Remember, most residents are hunting near home. That means they go home to eat, and don't stay at hotels or provide an influx of sales to the state that aren't already there. There was a time when small towns in PA stayed afloat on non-resident hunting revenues.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Pinwheel 12 said:


> It's all about the numbers, and money, and kickbacks, that's the bottom line---in 1999 PA sold 328,451 bowhunter licenses. In 2004, they sold 284,493. Somebody is going to pay for the reduction in overall license sales, even tho the deer population is now WAY down in PA, almost non-existant now in some of the heavily-hunted areas. Unfortunately, the PGC thinks they can have it all and keep tagging the bowhunters for it, and so far they are getting away with it, at least with many. Eventually all are going to wise up.


Adding a week of muzzleloader, a weekend of rifle, and another week of small game in the middle of archery season has dampened the enthusiasm of quite a few bowhunters. Many have taken the "if you can't beat them, join them approach". 

Also, the PGC shows no willingness to expand bowhunting opportunities. They keep expanding the areas where you can hunt bears during deer season but refuse to allow bowhunters the chance to take a bear during bow season if the opportunity presents itself. They claim they are afraid of the impact on the bear population. We are probably talking about an additional harvest of 100 bears here. Big deal!


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## dynatec15 (Mar 15, 2004)

Quitting hunting because of a few rules is OBSERED. I cant believe you would just quit because of a few little rules. COME ON people its a sport and all sports have rules and regulations, just be a good athlete and follow them. And im so sick and tired of hearing guys ***** about not having deer to shoot. Thats not what its all about, go out and try to enjoy yourself, you dont always need to shoot somthing to have fun ok? If there isnt anything around you...go find a new spot to hunt. And if you think 30.00 is cheap, go try to find a license out of state, then come back and tell me how much they want for it. I honestly think the deer population is down a bit but does it bother me? not a tiny bit. I like trying to find my game and makeing it alittle tougher, I like it more now, than when you would walk in the woods and every 20 yards deer are bouncen out everywhere. You all need to look at what huntings really about not just the kill but being out and enjoying a sport. Also is it such a problem to pass on little bucks COME ON you complain about not having big bucks but then cant have the patience to let them grow. This whole thread makes me sick to sit here and listen to this complaining. 

Dan


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## bukhuntr (Aug 22, 2003)

well, this could turn into a brawl if we let it. we as humans and adults need to remember everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether we agree or not we should respect that. since i've joined this site i've been impressed and blessed with the amount of intelligence and information made available to me.
i made my opinions about how i felt in an earlier post. at this point i don't feel an increase is warranted. due in fact to the overall state of our wildlife.
does this mean i expect a deer behind every tree, no! but for those of us that have been hunting for 20+ years and have seen the steady decline of our wildlife it's disheartning. can we blame all of this on the pgc,no! 
allthough people complain about the lack of deer did it stop them from applying for bonus tags and filling them even tho the deer population is down. probably not. so ethically, who's resposible? the pgc for allowing this or the people who feel the need to do this. i personally send in for one doe tag for the area i hunt and never use it. i'm not a rack hunter, but i will let a forkhorn or even a 4 pt. walk every time. i know they are not mature deer.
this is just my set of values and each person has their own and i respect that. so remember guys it's up to us to help make the changes and not to lay the blame on someone else. because in the end we are all a little bit to blame. well enough with the lecture. good luck too all this year. stay sharp and shoot straight.


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## dahmer (Jan 16, 2005)

dynatec15 said:


> Quitting hunting because of a few rules is OBSERED. I cant believe you would just quit because of a few little rules. COME ON people its a sport and all sports have rules and regulations, just be a good athlete and follow them. And im so sick and tired of hearing guys ***** about not having deer to shoot. Thats not what its all about, go out and try to enjoy yourself, you dont always need to shoot somthing to have fun ok? If there isnt anything around you...go find a new spot to hunt. And if you think 30.00 is cheap, go try to find a license out of state, then come back and tell me how much they want for it. I honestly think the deer population is down a bit but does it bother me? not a tiny bit. I like trying to find my game and makeing it alittle tougher, I like it more now, than when you would walk in the woods and every 20 yards deer are bouncen out everywhere. You all need to look at what huntings really about not just the kill but being out and enjoying a sport. Also is it such a problem to pass on little bucks COME ON you complain about not having big bucks but then cant have the patience to let them grow. This whole thread makes me sick to sit here and listen to this complaining.
> 
> Dan


If this whole thread makes you sick then don't read it, it's like the off button or channel button on your TV. Not all of us have the time or area to find new hunting spots. Nobody here complained about not having big bucks, just no deer.If you're a trophy hunter that's great, but a trophy is in the eye of the beholder then a 4 or 6 point to someone that apppreciates it is still a great trophy. In over 35 years of hunting I have never been ashamed of any buck I have ever shot. I don't want deer bouncing out every 20 yards like it's a game farm but I would like to see more than 2 or 3 deer a week. Surprised we haven't had more Gary Alt " cheerleaders " here. I don't think $30 is too much but I am amazed by the amount of " purists " that only hunt for the enjoyment, you must donate ALL your meat to the "Share The Harvest" program. We use the meat from our kills. It's amazing how many "TROPHY HUNTERS" are actually lousy hunters and use the "nothing big enough" excuse for not being able to fill a tag!


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## FarmBoy (Mar 28, 2004)

*Wahhhhhhhh!*

What does it currently cost you to hunt. I hunted last year as a non-resident just to spend time with my dad and family from Blairsville and donated almost 150.00 for my doe and general license. My take for the year 2 pheasants. Your current cost is about 30 bucks for 2 turkey 2 deer and an archery stamp(doe tag included in cost). In Ohio the same tags for a RESIDENT are 105.00.
Sorry you cant go out any given night and see 50 deer while you are in your stand like you used to do. Where I hunt in western Ohio to see 1 a night would be about average. But you can be assured that out of 5 deer I see 1 or 2 will be a legal buck by Pa. standards.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Okay a couple folks are going a bit over the top on this thread.

I don't think anyone suggested quitting hunting over rules changes. I don't even know where that came from.  I only pointed out that the decrease in archery license sales can be easily attributed to the continuing encroachment of other seasons on archery season. It is very difficult to successfully bowhunt deer that are being chased around by rifle hunters.

Personally, I'll be out hunting when deer season opens if there are 10,000 deer and licenses cost $1000.00. 

It's easy to say go hunt elsewhere, or hunt harder, or just be happy to be in the woods but that is not necessarily the most conducive situation to new hunter recruitment. I know we have had one kid under age 20 in our camp (in fact under age 30) in the last few years and he isn't coming back this year. He is 14 and has hunted with us for two years without seeing a deer. He has other interests in life that are far more exciting then sitting in an empty woods all day.


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

gumba said:


> I
> 
> Oh man! That stinks! An opportuinty to take a deer with a bow doesn't come that often in a hunting season (at least where I hunt it doesn't).


Tell me about it. That's the only deer that came in bow range to me that season. My season last year was not good at all. Didn't see many deer. I'm not expecting things to improve a lot this year either. :sad:


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

dynatec15 said:


> Also is it such a problem to pass on little bucks COME ON you complain about not having big bucks but then cant have the patience to let them grow. This whole thread makes me sick to sit here and listen to this complaining.
> 
> Dan


If there was a 12 point buck and a smaller 4 point....if both were legal, I'd take the shot at the 4 point. "Good eatin' Opie." Like I said before, I'm out there because I like to be in the woods, plus I want the meat. I'm not the least bit concerned whether I have a 12 point rack on the wall or not. So I'm not complaining about the lack of big bucks...and yes, because I want the meat...I do hate to have to pass on the small bucks. 

And if it's making you sick sitting there and listening to the complaining, just hit your back button and go to another thread. No one is forcing you to sit there and get "sick." :angel:


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## Kighty7 (Feb 7, 2004)

*ttt*

ttt


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## Kighty7 (Feb 7, 2004)

*CAn of Worms*

I started this post to see what I could get out of my fellow PA hunters. I have had friends quit hunting because of the rule changes. That is there right! I frown apon it but that is there choice! I hunt every season during the year and have 50.00 wrapped up in this season. Not to mention another 6.00 for doe tags. I do not have a problem with it! Every sport has a cost but you want to get just compensation for your time money and efforts. I spend a lot of time planting food plots, feeding deer in the off season during the winter to try to keep the heard healthy. I scout, hang many stands and rotate areas. I have an uncle who just retired from the GC and he was one of the high up people. He would just as soon arrest his own mother for a violation because that is his job. He and I would talk quite extensively about the new restrictions and things that have been done in the past. He was good friend with Gary Alt and many of the things Alt wanted to do were taken out of his hands. I agree with many of the people in this area. I let the smaller deer go and grow. I am not a trophy hunter, yet I have spent thousnads of dollars to hunt in Illinois, Pike County. Why? Because the deer hunting is great! I saw deer everyday, and many if not most of them were bucks. People out there understand you need to let them grow. They encourage you to shoot mature does. It was fun and I would spend the money to do it again. Why? Because out there the anticipation of seeing a pope and young deer is a reality. Here in Pa, it is not. To many young deer still never get the chance to grow to maturity. Plus there is not enough food in certain areas to allow the deer to grow that big. Yet still I hunt and soend money to get the meat my family eats. SOmeone said it was not about harvesting and animal! I realize that and I hunt hard and legally! BUt hunting and putting all the long hours with nothing out of it is not my thing. One guy said, he like still being outside. I agree with him. If he like it so much and doesn't see many deer. Maybe he should donate his money to the GC and them just do a lot of camping. Esentially, that is what he is doing! IN all sport there is a cost, if you pay 30.00 to go see a baseball game and you get there and it gets rained out you are not going to see a game. You will get a ticket for the next game hopefully. BUt will it be as good, you have anticipated all week about going to the game and now you are not sure you will be ablt to go to the rescheduled game. Bummer. I anticipate archery season every year and after sitting on stand for many nights in different areas an not seeing very much and having to pass on nice 6 points in my area doesn't seem right. I know in the long run I am going top hopefully be rewarded for my patients by having some meat in my freezer. You can't eat horns and both buck and doe taste the same. Keep the comments coming I love to hear all of the ideas! Do yourself another favor! Get on the GC website and email you possitive and negative comments. They usually reply quickly! let us know what you ask and what they say!


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## Extremesolo (May 27, 2003)

While the out of state hunters do not get to apply at the same time for their first doe tag, they do get to apply for their first tag before the residents can apply for their second or "bonus" tag. I have been hunting in PA since I was 12 and I am now 26. I hunt public land exclusively and while I have seen a decline in the number of deer sightings in recent years that does not stop me from wanting to hunt. My family spends many long hours and also a great deal of money to travel to the areas that we hunt in the state but that should not guarantee me a deer. If I do my part in preparing correctly and hunting every opportunity that I get I am very confident that i will be able to provide meat for my family. I have no problem with the current antler restrictions and if the price of a license was raised to $200 or more I would still find a way to come up with the money. One thing that I do have a problem with is the harvesting of button bucks. In one area where I hunt on game lands I know of a family (one adult and two junior hunters) that shot a spike hit a 4 point and shot 3 button bucks last year. This makes me very angry. How are we supposed to have a healthy balanced herd when hunters show no restraint to identify if they are shooting a yearling or an older doe. Truly mature bucks are few and far between where I hunt but finally connecting on a legal buck after a season of hard hunting is one of the greatest accomplishments we can achieve as PA bowhunters.


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## Spiker (Oct 25, 2004)

Mr. October said:


> Personally, I'll be out hunting when deer season opens if there are 10,000 deer and licenses cost $1000.00. .


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## ruger27077 (Jan 6, 2005)

retro-grouch said:


> If a liscense were to triple, I would pay it. I pay for the privilege to hunt. There is no entitlement to a harvest. For the money I pay, I hunt at least 100 hours a year. Mostly bowhunting of which about 1/2 of the time is big woods north of I-80. Missed my biggest buck ever last year, and saw numerous deer in a public land up there.
> 
> I also had to let two different sub-legal bucks walk on the last two days of archery in my home county of Westmd. Both bucks were less than 10 yards and as I hunt on the ground, the experience of those last two evenings was worth every penny I spent last year.
> 
> If you are pissing and moaning about the cost of a liscense in PA, then you probably suffer from two ailments. One is that you focus way too much on those damned antlered forest rats and secondly, you think that your liscense should garuntee you to shoot game. Sorry. It don't work that way.


Couldnt have said it better myself :thumbs_up .I personally cant wait till youth season to watch my oldest son get a chance at a 4pt. or a 8pt..To whine about our youth not having the restrictions is stupid.I do alot of scouting and driving here in western Pa and there is no shortage of deer.There may be not as many as ten years ago but I dont think that is such a bad thing.So we have to hunt a little harder and smarter thats fine.


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## Team Hoyt PA (Oct 25, 2003)

some of you people are really sad :thumbs_do 

I'll be one of the folks waking up at 4 AM and heading to the woods when license costs get more expensive.
To those that won't be there to join me......good, you'll only spook the game anyway. 

Ruger and retro grouch may join me if you like......and mr october and dynatec if you behave  

Farmboy you're welcome in PA anytime.


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## FarmBoy (Mar 28, 2004)

It will be a while before I return to Pa. for deer. I usually come out for small game after Thanksgiving just to be with family and try for birds. I read in the Game News ( Yes I subscribe) that they are cutting the number of birds in half. This deer season was interesting. I took a beatiful 7 point here in Ohio 12 minutes into archery season. I figured I would get out to Pa. at least a couple times for archery and again for turkeys so I sent in for my tags and doe tag. I hunted rifle season only and did see numerous sub legals including 1 that made me sick. Some slob blew the lower half of a 3 points (Fork / Spike) jaw off. He was bawling all the way up through the woods. I had a tough time letting that one walk on to become coyote bait. This years plans do not include Pa. at all. I will stay home and take 1 of at least 6 different bucks that I have on camera. Gas is getting so ridiculous I really can't afford the trip.


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## dea dell'arco (Feb 28, 2005)

Although this is my first hunting season, I find it interesting how many people think the game commission is responsible for changes in the law.(not stating that you guys think it, but figured it was a good place to point it out) The fact is it is state government. You vote for the people that make these decisions and you can have an impact after the fact by writing to your house and senate members....plus the house game and fisheries committee. For example the Sunday hunting bill is sitting with the committee right now. (And has been with them since March) If hunters start bombarding these guys/gals with letters.....they are going to push it to the house. There are numerous sites that will give you listings of current bills and there status. Including the GC site. http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=481&q=151273
Good luck this season.
I for one wouldn't care about $30 for a license. If you kill your limit...thats alot of meat and I would have paid alot more for beef. WAY MORE.


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## dahmer (Jan 16, 2005)

dea dell'arco said:


> Although this is my first hunting season, I find it interesting how many people think the game commission is responsible for changes in the law.(not stating that you guys think it, but figured it was a good place to point it out) The fact is it is state government. You vote for the people that make these decisions and you can have an impact after the fact by writing to your house and senate members....plus the house game and fisheries committee. For example the Sunday hunting bill is sitting with the committee right now. (And has been with them since March) If hunters start bombarding these guys/gals with letters.....they are going to push it to the house. There are numerous sites that will give you listings of current bills and there status. Including the GC site. http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=481&q=151273
> Good luck this season.
> I for one wouldn't care about $30 for a license. If you kill your limit...thats alot of meat and I would have paid alot more for beef. WAY MORE.


The Game Commission has unrestricted control over bag limits and seasons. They MUST get permission for any change involving money.


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## dea dell'arco (Feb 28, 2005)

dahmer said:


> The Game Commission has unrestricted control over bag limits and seasons. They MUST get permission for any change involving money.


True...that is part of wildlife management. However the sunday thing is not in their control. But I think you were enforcing my point that the GC isn't the deciding factor...the government is. doesnt mean that the GC can't make recommendations and have people propose bills...but the people we vote into office make the decisions.


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## Kighty7 (Feb 7, 2004)

*ttt*

ttt


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## JeramyK (Jul 27, 2004)

I'll still be buying a license if/when the prices go up.


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## stew (Jun 15, 2005)

Kighty,

PA soil does not allow for the growth of deer like the mid west and northern states have. It is the same for deer as it is for agricultural products. The minerals and nutrition provided by the richer soils in the mid-west provides the animal population with the nurishment needed to grow to that size. No matter what food product you used to plant your plots. You would have to saturate the land you use with fertalizer and minerals all year, every year to match what they contain. Another reason, this antler restriction is only a few years old. Talk to any wildlife biologist, specializing in whitetails, and they'll tell you it takes 7 to 10 years for a deer management plan to come into fruition. That is what we are waiting for. Remember, PA hunters have been shooting everything with antlers for fourty years, it will take a little time for our deer heards to turn around.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

dea dell'arco said:


> True...that is part of wildlife management. However the sunday thing is not in their control. But I think you were enforcing my point that the GC isn't the deciding factor...the government is. doesnt mean that the GC can't make recommendations and have people propose bills...but the people we vote into office make the decisions.


Dea, you are partially right on this issue. The problem I have with the PGC is that, until this year, the stance of MOST of the commissioners was against Sunday hunting. Bills have been put in front of the State legislature on numerous occasions in the past and the commissioners testimony has been against Sunday hunting. This year, for the first time, the commisioners took a positive stance in regard to at least giving them the opportunity to allow hunters to hunt on Sunday.

Other things completely in thier control that they refuse to discuss are things like allowing bowhunters to take bears in archery season or extending archery-only seasons to give bowhunters more time to hunt undisturbed deer in places where deer numbers are out of control.


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## bsneaky (Aug 13, 2005)

I am all for the 4 pt.antler restriction i believe it is one of the best laws our GC has past. I have seen so many huge bucks in the last 3 years then in all my years of hunting. It's felt great the last 2 years letting 15" & 16" deer walk so i can get the chance at the huge bucks. In the next 5 years you just watch the # of p&y entries coming out of pa. As far as the cost of a license I'll pay whatever they want for the chance to go out and sit in the woods who knows maybe i'll get a chance at a bruiser, if not any day hunting is better than any day working.As far as youths having know antler restrictions I am all for it if we don't keep the youth interested until they become mature enough to understand what the antler restriction is all about who will be left to keep our haritage alive. As far as the guy who said if i had a 12 pt and a 4 pt under my stand i would shoot the 4 pt. He is full of crap!


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## buckshot164 (Apr 23, 2003)

*More for nothing*

I have gone spotting in Sproul State forest the last 4 mondays. I saw 6 red foxes, 2 rattlesnakes (alive), 1 bobcat, 2 racoons, 4 doe and 2 bucks. Now I have to pay more to see less. Good thing there are other types of animals in the forest to keep me occupied. I think we are somewhere around 6 dpsm. My freinds are seeing about the same. Seems to me we might have to pay more to fix the damage that was done the last several years.


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## dahmer (Jan 16, 2005)

bsneaky said:


> I am all for the 4 pt.antler restriction i believe it is one of the best laws our GC has past. I have seen so many huge bucks in the last 3 years then in all my years of hunting. It's felt great the last 2 years letting 15" & 16" deer walk so i can get the chance at the huge bucks. In the next 5 years you just watch the # of p&y entries coming out of pa. As far as the cost of a license I'll pay whatever they want for the chance to go out and sit in the woods who knows maybe i'll get a chance at a bruiser, if not any day hunting is better than any day working.As far as youths having know antler restrictions I am all for it if we don't keep the youth interested until they become mature enough to understand what the antler restriction is all about who will be left to keep our haritage alive. As far as the guy who said if i had a 12 pt and a 4 pt under my stand i would shoot the 4 pt. He is full of crap!


Well in the last 3 years how many of these "huge" bucks have you harvested since you're letting all those "little" 15" and 16" bucks walk?


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## gumba (Oct 8, 2004)

bsneaky said:


> ....until they become mature enough to understand what the antler restriction is all about


It's all about trophy bucks. Is that what what deer hunting is all about?


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

gumba said:


> It's all about trophy bucks. Is that what what deer hunting is all about?


Sure. Just watch the outdoor channel. :wink:


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## gumba (Oct 8, 2004)

Mr. October said:


> Sure. Just watch the outdoor channel. :wink:


 :smile:


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## dahmer (Jan 16, 2005)

gumba said:


> It's all about trophy bucks. Is that what what deer hunting is all about?


As a whole, hunters have become so brainwashed that you are a failure if you haven't killed a P & Y buck.Would I like to harvest a book buck, yes. Is that the only reason I hunt, no! If you're only in it for the "trophy" then you better stick to tournaments where you can get a "trophy". I've heard so much crap about people "not even bother hooking up the release unless it's a P & Y buck" or "passing up all those little 15" - 16" bucks". How come all these people that make these claims don't have their names in the record book numerous times? Give me a break and become a hunter again, not a status symbol.


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## Morty3 (Aug 20, 2005)

I have a goal of shooting one bigger than my last. However I have seen more bucks and larger bucks since the AR went into effect. As for doe harvests some areas need more some less. I think PA hunters need to realize that with million hunters trying to make everyone happy is impossible. The game commission has the responsibility to look after all game species and non-game, not just deer. 

If you want to go out and shoot a deer every time you go out then go to a high fence area. The challenge of hunting is finding the deer and beating them on their turf. I think people are losing sight of this. If deer are not in your area then go to a state forest that has deer, or put in the time to harvest one of the 9dpsm in the Sproul or wherever.

I think if the PGC bows to hunters instead of following scientific principles then deer hunting in PA is doomed for failure.


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## phatbowman1 (Apr 27, 2005)

dahmer said:


> Well in the last 3 years how many of these "huge" bucks have you harvested since you're letting all those "little" 15" and 16" bucks walk?


hey damher ya see a pattern to this, most other people are seing nice bucks but you!! i know some people like you since your not seeing any nice bucks you think everybody else is just lying about the deer here well im here to tell you that were not. The big bucks are here! the deer numbers are down a bit but are still above most states in the lower 48 we were just spoiled here. for a veteran hunter you sure do have a rookie attitude


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