# Is the Hoyt Helix crappy?



## Viper1

lizard -

I don't one, but have shot a few. I don't notice a significant improvement over the areotec (the only noticable change is the grip, which is nice but not nice enough to make me run out and get one). It seems to shoot quite well.

What you're describing can probably be attributed to (sorry) 1. poor tuning of the bow, including stab configuration - yes it need a stab IMHO  2. torqueing at the instant of release. The "grab" can happen so fast that you don't even know you've done it and 3. for some reason, you're not getting the right shoulder alignment at anchor and (or collapsing) that's throwing you off at release/follow-through. 

Really hard to tell without seeing you shoot.

Viper1 out.


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## lizardbow

Viper,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am sure my tune sucks. Partly because I have been changing things so often trying to find why the bow isn't stable after the shot.

The results I described above are all without stabilizers. I shoot mostly barebow recurve. What is strange is that if it is just my form wouldn't I expect to see poor shooting will all of the above mentioned bows?

Hoyt describes the bow as stable like the Aerotech but punchy like the Matrix. How can it be both?


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## Paradoxical Cat

lizardbow said:


> Hoyt describes the bow as stable like the Aerotech but punchy like the Matrix. How can it be both?


I shoot the Helix. I find it to be very stable (with a stabilizer) and to have very little hand-shock. Based on what I have read here and elsewhere, I think the problem with the Aerotec was too much stability translating into the shock of release being transfered to the archer's bow arm. Based on the design, Hoyt probably accomplished the shock-reduction through the riser-shox(tm) and punchiness by the general reduction in the riser's mass (it is about .15 lbs lighter than the Aerotech.)

I think that is what they mean. Regardless, it is a lovely riser and (for me) a dream to shoot. I hope that you are able to get it tuned to your liking. Let me know if you are able to shoot it barebow, I might have to try it.


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## Viper1

Lizard - 

The Helix (or Aerotec) without a stab can be annoying. Even more so with a poorly configured one (or ones). If your form were that bad, yes, you'd expect the same results with other bows ONLY if the other bows were identical to the Helix!!! Some bows (and some configurations) hide or forgive mistakes quite well and some amplify them. I've shot several Aerotecs side by side and one would rattle my teeth and I couldn't feel the arrow leave the other. 

If you like, PM me and we can talk about tuning and setting the bow up for barebow. 

Viper1 out.


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## NHSarcher

*Answer*

To answer your question. No. I feel tha tis one of the better bows on the market right now. I've shot a lot of different recurve risers including an Axis, Aerotec, and W&W risers. 

Overall IMHO it's feels the best. I'm not really sold on the grip yet but it's growing on me.


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## lizardbow

thanks for the feedback everyone..

I just don't know if the tech bridge is all it is cracked up to be by Hoyt. No other company does this. Is it patented or something? I also have a Border/Merlin fita riser and that riser also stays put in my hand after the shot without stabilization. Maybe the grip on the Helix is to be blamed...


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## Jim C

I don't see too many people shooting tech risers in fita BB-I doubt they could get through the 12.2 circle-I know the Axis cannot. Most of the serious BB shooters are using skys or Euro risers dedicated to BB like the spigarelli 650, or the Best Zenit, Moon etc.


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## Marcus

My wife has just changed from teh Samick Masters to the Hoyt Helix and loves it. It does require some different stabilization setup due to the TEC bar, but even without us having time to tune properly she beating her old personal best scores.


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## Dave T

Lizardbow,

The following is speculation on my part, but your problem might be you are shooting a riser designed with FITA shooting in mind, with all the accessories bolted on to give it the proper ballance. Barebow it just isn't handling the way you want, and Hoyt never intended it to.

I say that because I recently sold a Matrix I tried for Barebow and finally had to admit it just wasn't ballanced right for me (way too top heavy). I know one of the top European BB shooters (think he's from Sweden) uses a Matrix but it is heavly weighted in the lower riser.

It may well be the Helix is fine for what it was designed for (FITA) and crappy for what you are trying to use it for (Barebow Recurve). Oh, and JimC is correct, the tech bar will not allow it to pass the 4.8" rule to be legal in FITA Barebow class. It would be legal in NFAA Barebow, along with your stabilizer.

Dave


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## Jurasic Archer

I have been shooting a Helix for about a month or so and think is the best riser to come out of Hoyt to date. The limb capture is the most secure ever besides the Axis and the bow holds tune no matter what the punishment so far. 
I put my same old stabilizer set up on it and adjusted the weights a bit and have left it ever since. With the M1 limb it shoots like glass! The grip is wide, so you need to stay off of it a bit. If you put a full hand on it, it has allot of surface area. I trimmed mine down just a bit, and keep it on the thumb pad and off the palm. I found the best reaction there. Keep playing, you will get there. 

Cheers,
MG


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## lizardbow

Thanks again everyone for the feedback. 

I tried shooting the Helix with a Merlin recurve grip installed and most of my problems when away. So maybe it is mostly to do with the grip. 

My bow is 68 inches long and I have the brace set at 8.25inches. I know that is on the low side but I have always had good luck shooting on the low side of the brace height range.

*What kind of brace height are the rest of you using?*

It is too bad the riser won't be legal for fita barebow. I new that when I bought it, but I don't know of any fita shoots around me anyway (maybe there are many?). 

The barebow specific italian risers are interesting and I was going to post a thread about them. The Best Mercury and the Bernardini Nilo Luxor/ Nilo are the most intersting. I am not sure the Mercury will accept a weight though. Any thoughts on this?


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## Viper1

Lizard - 

Can't speak for the Helix, but my Aerotecs + Med limbs get cranky above or below 8.5". But my set up and shooting style are probably different than yours, so YMMV.

Viper1 out.


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## Dave T

lisardbow,

My 68" bow (23" Best Zenit + long Hoyt M1s) is quietest with a 9 1/8" brace height.

On May 20 & 21 there will be a FITA Field shoot, put on by ASAA, at Ben Avery. First day will be 24 unmarked targets and the second day will be 24 marked (distance) targets. Bring your Merlin and shoot with us. You can't do any worse than I did the first time. (lost half a dozen arrows on that hill side of rocks - LOL)

The Best Mercury will accept two of Best's weight kits on the lower riser. It is the model they now recommend for Barebow Recurve since they discontinued the Zenit Barebow riser. The Mercury also has a stabilizer bushing, just waiting for some additional weight to be screwed on. (smiley face goes here)

Dave


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## BlackArrow

Maybe it's the match of limbs to riser rather than any problem with the components?

I changed the limbs on a Samick Mizar riser to Borders (to get the speed), and found a similar issue- a very "twitchy" bow. 

Bearing in mind the speed of my Borders, I then changed to a Best Zenit 23" riser, and the problem went away. The (more stable?) design of the Best Zenit just seemed to work better with the fast Border limbs, actually it worked really well- a really smooth bow to shoot. 

Given that Hoyt limbs are much less recurved so probably slower and more forgiving, maybe the Helix is optimised to work with them and that's why it doesn't react well with a faster Border limb?


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## daMatt

*try this maybe*

I have shot both the helix and matrix before. The helix riser had too small of a grip for me. maybe you should try the matrix (little bit bigger grip) and see what happens. If you do the same with both, then it is your form. Hope this helps you


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## TexARC

daMatt said:


> I have shot both the helix and matrix before. The helix riser had too small of a grip for me. maybe you should try the matrix (little bit bigger grip) and see what happens. If you do the same with both, then it is your form. Hope this helps you


I think there is a valid observation to be made: To expect that one particular bow grip will fit ALL or even "most" archers' hands is strange. 
The best outcome will derive from archers TRYING the bow, and then evolving the grip to suit their particular hand.

for example: 
http://texasarchery.org/Documents/BowGrips/BowGrip.htm


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## zydeco

I recently posted a question about why the aversion to the Mathews Sky Conquest and got a few slams, such as the "compound" grip, etc. Well, it is smoother and more free of vibration than my X Factor. It is also lighter and requires less sophisticatef stabilization. I realize I am not an Olympic shooter, but I'll tell you that with all the posts I see on this site about Hoyt's inability to deliver risers and limbs, with the issues surrounding the Aerotech and now the Helix, I am frankly amazed at the unwillingness to look for an alternative.

Cheers


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## calbowdude

Based on your description of your challenges, I would venture the guess that the grip shape is what not's getting along with you.

I had lots of the same symptoms you had, when I switched grips on the same base riser. 

Take a look along the surface of the grip, looking from the bottom of the grip, up towards the throat. Note that there probably is an angle on the Helix grip. I would then compare that angle against the angle on the risers you shoot well. If you are feeling creative, I would build up the grip and then shape it to match the grip on your other riser.

This may help alleviate some of the weird shot reactions.

Larry


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## Jay

The Hoyt Helix is quite possibly the best Recurve bow ever made. The bow has provided me with the greatest feeling bow I have ever shot.

I have had it for 4 days and after 3 days have shot in a FITA Star a 1301 and after 4 a 662 (new Canadian 720 Round record) with it.

I shoot the Helix with G3 limbs and it is without question, the best bow I have ever shot.


-Jay Lyon


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## akshooter

*we gots one*

well my dad has a Helix with 36# limbs on it very very smooth shooting bow i would say u need to play around with your limbs and limb # but it is one of the best risers on the market now so keep with it and have fun


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## lizardbow

*made peace with the Helix grip....finally*

Thank you all for the continued response. 

An update:

I went down the path of modifying my stock Helix grip by filing it down then building it back up with epoxy. Then I went to the Merlin grip. And finally I tried another stock factory Hoyt grip. In the end I seem to have come full circle and now I like the stock Helix grip. I have attained a grip hand position such that my bow is vertical after the shot with no more problems. I don't know why I couldn't figure this out before. I think the Helix requires your hand to be out at a pretty good angle (45deg+) to keep from healing the grip but as long as you do that it works great.

An additional problem that I was blaming on the riser is that my 68inch Border limbs seem to prefer a higher brace than what I had been using. With these changes the bow feels great now.

So, I may have came off like I was slamming the Helix but I just wanted opinions from other archers since the grip really seems to be a departure from just about every other grip out there.

The Helix is most definitely not a crappy riser and now it works great for me. Too bad it is not barebow legal.


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## TexARC

lizardbow said:


> With these changes the bow feels great now.
> 
> So, I may have came off like I was slamming the Helix but I just wanted opinions from other archers since the grip really seems to be a departure from just about every other grip out there.
> 
> The Helix is most definitely not a crappy riser and now it works great for me. Too bad it is not barebow legal.


Too bad that the character assassination of the EXCELLENT Hoyt Helix continues with *every* post made in this thread, thanks to the choice of words in the title. Kinda like "Have you stopped beating your wife yet" or "Don't think of a white horse" - you just put the words together and the image is unavoidably created in the mind of the reader...

:thumbs_do


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## Jim C

TexARC said:


> Too bad that the character assassination of the EXCELLENT Hoyt Helix continues with *every* post made in this thread, thanks to the choice of words in the title. Kinda like "Have you stopped beating your wife yet" or "Don't think of a white horse" - you just put the words together and the image is unavoidably created in the mind of the reader...
> 
> :thumbs_do



LOL-where's gt to avenge Hoyt when we need him:wink:


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## lizardbow

*poor word choice*

Yes, I should have titled the thread with a more appropriate and less slanderous word than "crappy". I guess frustration got the best of me that day.


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## yellowgazer

lizardbow said:


> I went down the path of modifying my stock Helix grip by filing it down then building it back up with epoxy. Then I went to the Merlin grip. And finally I tried another stock factory Hoyt grip.


lizardbow, are you saying that Helix and Merlin grips are interchangeable? If so, I may be able to get a custom made Hoyt grip for my Quazar?


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## Huya

I will give you 200.00 for that Helix riser without hesitation.


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## Robert43

Huya said:


> I will give you 200.00 for that Helix riser without hesitation.


LOL this thread is only 6 years old


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## DWAA Archer

lizardbow said:


> I have a Hoyt Helix (with 68" Border 50lb limbs) that is driving me crazy. Basically when shooting with an open grip and finger sling and just trying to get a good clean shot, the bow always reacts lousy after the shot. The riser jumps to the right,twists, and the bottom kicks forward (right handed shooter) in any combination.
> 
> Now I know that I am not a great shooter or anything but for comparison I can shoot my 55lb 62 inch wood Sky recurves and they are perfectly vertical and stable after the shot. What really blew my mind was yesterday when I thought I would try my old Sky Medalist. That bow is amazing, it stays perfectly veritical after the shot and then slightly tips backward (no stabilizer). There is no twisting or bottom kicking forward.
> 
> So all this leads me to wonder if the problem with the Helix is the tech bar and "flex tuning". Can they really tune the flex? Wouldn't the bow react differently to different draw weights and tunes? One idea I have is that the tech bar creates an asymmetry in the bending stiffness of the riser so that at full draw the riser is not only bending toward the archer but is bending sideways as well. If the riser is sensitive in this manner then shooting higher weights would only increase the problem.
> 
> I realize that the problem is likely my form and not the riser but I have to task the question. Has anyone else had problems with this riser?


Nope nothing wrong with the riser your problem is behind the bow and that needs fixing take back to shop and replace with a more focused and systematic model that has good bio mechanical function.

Hoyt make the bench mark risers that all other risers are measured against.
Border make state of the art limbs.

So your equipment is good!!!
That means It's all you!!!!! and ultimately to fix this issue you need to spend some time on form and searching out the skills required to improve it, any money you spend to develop form (coaching) will put lots of points on your scores 

Good luck shoot well


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## Huya

I would still give 200.00 for the riser. I am looking for a Hoyt Helix riser.


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