# Lightweight 3D arrow



## cbinz19 (Jan 27, 2011)

Looking for help/suggestions on finding a lightweight arrow for 3D this summer. I have looked at victory vap, victory vforce hv, and BE challengers. Does anyone have any experiences with the arrows listed or any other arrows I should look into? 

I shot gold tip 22s last year but I'm looking for something lighter with a 400 spine. 

I'm shooting the bow in my signature and have it right around 56 lbs right now.


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## lilbilly95 (Dec 24, 2010)

I shot 56 pound on my old bow with the gt 22s an this year I got a target bow on 50 pounds shootin them fly straight as can be I got my first Robin Hood with this bow within a week of owning it 


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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

I haven't shot the Black Eagles, but I shoot the Victory HV 400's and the Vap 400's. I like both of them. Oddly enough I also shoot 56 pounds. My arrows are 28 1/2" with a 30" draw. I get perfect bare shaft and fletch groups with both. I shot the HV's last year and I am going to try the Vap's this tear for 3D. Everybody else is crazy about the "fat" arrows. At 50 yards the Vaps will hit 3" higher or flatter than a fat arrow due to ballistic coefficient, and are 40% less effected by wind. You can also get a much higher foc due to the light shaft and nock. I use the top hat points, I am playing with point weights, and there seems to be no drop so I am going with the 110g point. I was shooting them at 60 yards yesterday at a foam block and they went thru the block and 2" into a tree, so you have to have a good target. The Third Hand rag bag is the best target I have found so far. At 56 pounds, I am getting 309fps with my Hoyt pro Edge Elite I think the Edge is rated at 325fps. They are excellent in the wind. If you are shooting unknown they would be awesome, For known a fat arrow might get the nod. Hope this helps. The field people use them a lot.


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## cbinz19 (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks for the input. Yeah I'm shooting unknown with 50 yds max. How much flatter do the vaps shoot then the vforce hvs?


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## pops (Oct 10, 2015)

IMO you are already shooting one of the best 3d arrows made why change.


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## pastorjosh (Oct 17, 2014)

I shoot the BE Challengers, love them. Fly true and are a great weight and flex. I shoot the 350 spine. My bow is 56#


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## pastorjosh (Oct 17, 2014)

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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

I would have to run the numbers, but since the diameter of the Hv is in the middle, it is probably about an inch and a half. At fifty yards, one yard off is worth about an inch drop or high. If you are trying for 12, the Vap would be twice as forgiving as the HV in yardage estimation. I shoot center 10 on anything over 35 yards, and shoot for 12's on the shorter yardage. With the Vap I can hit ten ring and be off 2-3 yards.


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## cbinz19 (Jan 27, 2011)

How's the durability between the arrows? I would think the hvs would not be nearly as durable as the vaps


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## cbinz19 (Jan 27, 2011)

pastorjosh said:


> I shoot the BE Challengers, love them. Fly true and are a great weight and flex. I shoot the 350 spine. My bow is 56#
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What's the final weight of your arrow?


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

cbinz19 said:


> Looking for help/suggestions on finding a lightweight arrow for 3D this summer. I have looked at victory vap, victory vforce hv, and BE challengers. Does anyone have any experiences with the arrows listed or any other arrows I should look into?
> 
> I shot gold tip 22s last year but I'm looking for something lighter with a 400 spine.
> 
> I'm shooting the bow in my signature and have it right around 56 lbs right now.


CXL pro 250s IE 400 spine is what you should look at or if you wish to shoot thinner arrows try the Carbon tech Cheetahs


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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

The Vaps are a lot stronger than the HV's, I shot one into a tree after going thru a styrofoam block (the one they sell at Wal Mart) I dug it out of the tree with two screwdrivers and a hammer and It was fine. The other day I forgot to reset my Kingpin, it was on 80 yards and I shot into the garage wall at 35 yards (5/8" T11 siding) penetrated @16 inches. Arrow and point were fine. Last year I was shooting at a turkey at a 3D shoot downhill the turfy was half covered up. I caught the edge of the log and the arrow blew up found a piece about 4" with the nock and fletches. Half the arrow went into the target for a 8 so it wasn't so bad.lol. I also have a set of CXL 250's that I have been shooting, thats how I verified they drop 3" at 50 yards. I have broken 4 of them out of the dozen. They are less durable as the HV's. They actually started making the CXL a smaller diameter last year because they were so fragile. If you consider the diameter of a CXL which is 0.350" vs the diameter of the VAP which is 0.230" and consider the difference from the longitudinal axis (center) of the shaft, the difference is 0.120<2= 0.060". I kept tract of how many times I would have scored a higher score and it was about once per shoot (actually averaged slightly less). The times what I missed the yards by more than 1yard or the wind caused drift was about 75% of the time. I heard that Levi can judge within 1 yard, but that is my weakness (I don't think Levi uses fat arrows). My wife used VAPS last season and only got 1 X all season on a tricky black hog down a dark lane. Thats my reasoning behind my decision to go with VAPs this season.


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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

Oh forgot to answer your weight question. The 400's with a 80g point are 295g using 1.75" AAE fletches (2g each) I try to do scientific research, I have no brand loyalty or sponsorship. I buy mostly used arrows off AT for my research. I am sure that you would get similar results with any other brand of skinny arrow be it a nano, cheetah or whatever, I just haven't tested any yet so I can't speak yet


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## cbinz19 (Jan 27, 2011)

What are yoh using for a nock? Not sure if I should go with the regular nock or pin bushing


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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

I am using the regular nock, they weigh 6.8 g. The inserts and pins are about 18 g I believe. I weighed my CXL 2, they weighed 345 g w/ 2" blazers. They shoot 292fps compared to 309 with the VAPs. Do you have a speed limit where you shoot? In the Western Carolina Circuit we have a limit of 300 + 3% for a limit of 309fps. I am right there with 80 g points at 56 pounds. The VAP with the 89 g point is 12.87 FOC


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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

I typed it wrong, should be 70 grains, I would have to pull one, but I believe they are 70's. I am thinking of trying a little heavier point, Tophat has 2 points, one is heavier. They break odd at 3 places so you cad get three different weights out of the same point. You might try them heavy first because I don't see much difference in drop and you can have a FOC way high if you want. The higher the FOC the less fletch you need = less drag. much better in the wind. I am still testing point weights. Have you looked at the Tophat points? They run about $24 on Ebay, but they are a work of art.


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## cbinz19 (Jan 27, 2011)

There isn't a speed limit at any of the shoots we go to around here. I shot top hat points with my 22s last year and they performed well. I'm planning on cutting my arrows at 27 inch c to c in hopes of being able to shoot the 450s. The spine chart says I can and I've read posts about the vaps being stuff.


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## pastorjosh (Oct 17, 2014)

cbinz19 said:


> What's the final weight of your arrow?


With blazers and 100 grain nibs they are 324-325 grains if I remember correctly. 


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

With your current gold tip series 22's I would get some 2 inch razor feathers and save 12 grains and then get the plastic nocks that fit them without a bushing and save some more weight. You might be able to get up to 15 or so total weight savings on the back half of the arrow. Then drop to 75 or 80 grains of point weight, I see a ton of people doing this at asa and their arrows seem to shoot awesome.

If you must get some new arrows then check out the new pierce shafts from gold tip, they are coming in every good spine option and have micro diameter and low gpi. Lancasters has a good look at them on their website with the gpi numbers and they have some points to choose from also.


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

tagged. 3D arrows.


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## mjharp46 (May 7, 2012)

What is your Draw length? If it's 28" or under I don't see why you couldn't shoot 500 spine arrows at 56 lb DW


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## cbinz19 (Jan 27, 2011)

29" and I'm using a qad rest


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

<28" and <60# is a .500 shaft no problem. The ultralight from GT is a really good place to start.

Grant


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Well, crap. When I listen to you in your posts and original question I see myself 5 and 6 years ago, I was doing anything to get speed out of my bow and I did it with carbon tech cheetas. In all reality they are the lightest buildable arrows out there and have been for years. I went through 3 dozen per year and also got beat by this one guy and he shot from 10 to 20 points higher than me every stinking week. Finally I got to know him and found out that he was shooting only 274 fps and he was a asa shooter, from that point on I started learning what becoming a real 3d shooter was all about. 

My suggestion to you is to get a speed in your head such as 295 fps, which is the asa speed that you need in the open classes. Then using a chrono find the total weight that you need to get that speed, once you know it then you can pick a shaft and point weight that are going to build up to that speed. Done.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Padgett said:


> With your current gold tip series 22's I would get some 2 inch razor feathers and save 12 grains and then get the plastic nocks that fit them without a bushing and save some more weight. You might be able to get up to 15 or so total weight savings on the back half of the arrow. Then drop to 75 or 80 grains of point weight, I see a ton of people doing this at asa and their arrows seem to shoot awesome.
> 
> If you must get some new arrows then check out the new pierce shafts from gold tip, they are coming in every good spine option and have micro diameter and low gpi. Lancasters has a good look at them on their website with the gpi numbers and they have some points to choose from also.


I'm considering 2" Razors for some Deer Crossing target shafts...think 2" is long enough for such an arrow?


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## Tony86 (Jan 13, 2014)

Currently using the victory hv, love them. Have somhot the vaps too and really cant go wrong with either one


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## animal killer (Sep 16, 2009)

Can't go wrong with gold tip ultralights in a 500 spine cut super short or do 400s with some weight in the front

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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

It's not just about speed, you might want to consider ballistic coefficient (or drag). I am doing research on arrows that are the exact same weight, leave the same bow at the exact speed (depending on rules/class or sanction that you may be shooting) and looking at how much that they drop at 55 yards. Cross section causing drift in wind, and weighing the pros and cons of various options. However, if the exact distance is known, then it doesn't matter. My interest lies in staying in the 10 ring when you mis judge yardage by a couple of yards or you are shooting in the wind.


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## cbinz19 (Jan 27, 2011)

Right now I'm leaning towards the vaps but still interested in the vforce hvs and the gt ultralights.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

If you want a larger diameter arrow I've had very good success with CX Linejammers. They are light and I've found them to be durable shooting Known distance classes in ASA where arrows are slapping together on mist every target. I got a few and was actually surprised at how well they shot and held up so that is what I used this past year to take a 1st, a 2nd, two 3rds, a 6th and a 7th in 6 ASA tournaments in 2015. 

By the way, I am in no way affiliated with Carbon Express or receive ANY type of discount when purchasing CX arrows from any retailer, wholesaler or any other entity.


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

My 3D arrow is a GT velocity 400 27 " accu nok grove to end of carbon 100gr nib 3 razor 2' feathers total arrow weight 315gr with 14% FOC great combo for all outdoor archery.


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