# New Scent-Lok Science Site



## Scent-Lok Corp (Apr 12, 2007)

Throughout the past year, several internet discussions have raised questions concerning the science and capabilities of Scent-Lok activated carbon technology. To help answer the questions raised by some participants and hunters, we have enlisted the help of several highly qualified experts in the field of textile research, human odor research and the sciences related to activated carbon. These experts represent some of the most qualified and respected universities and research facilities in the world.

We asked these experts to evaluate our test methods, results, and to answer the challenges to our product claims based on scientific facts and principles. We captured the results and testimony of our independent research team and have prepared a video program, “Inside: The Facts Behind Scent-Lok Technology”, for review by interested customers and hunters.

In addition to the support of these experts, we continue to offer our Scent-Lok field effective guarantee. Our guarantee reinforces our commitment to our products and our customers. We warrant not only garment construction but also field results for a period of three years. 

We invite you to watch our presentation at www.ScentLokScience.com. In addition you can receive a copy of “Inside: The Facts Behind Scent-Lok Technology.” To order your copy, contact Scent-Lok at 800-315-5799 or e-mail us at [email protected]"


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## rjtfroggy (Dec 5, 2006)

If all of your studies are in your favor why won't the U S patent office give you one.


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

Funny how the bald lab coat guy had a completely different result as the 2nd lab guy.

While testing the regeneration issue the bald guys shows results of tests that showed only a 1% difference between before and after abilities.

The 2nd guy said that after regeneration in a clothes dryer, the activated carbon had the adsorption capacity of 20 -70% of it's original ability.

First of all 20 - 70 % is quite a gap and indicates testing procedures are extremely inconsistent, and thus very questionable.

Secondly the first guy (bald lab coat guy) had findings that indicated a 1% difference between before and after adsorption capability. We all know that that 1% is an outright lie. 

If the 2nd guy is correct he proves the first guy is lying.

All they proved here is that they are all lying about the activated carbon with respect to the regeneration issue. Actual scientists have proven this with testing that produces the same results.

These guys are laughable.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

I'm going to issue a general warning here. I am going to watch this thread closely, and will have very low tolerance for bashing.

I mean it.

RK
Administrator


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Thanks Rk, as you and others know this topic gets very heated on here. I for one love it when a company comes on here to offer insight, sad when some just want to offer insult!!

I wear it, I like it, I believe in it!


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

I watched the video.

One lab coat guy offered results that were quite different than the other lab coat guy.

As far as the regeneration issue goes:

the first guy found that after regeneration the activated carbon had an adsorption capacity within 1% of the original capacity.

the 2nd guy found that after going through a clothes drier the adsorption capacity was 20 - 70 % of the original capacity. 

The findings of the two are quite different and therefore IMO very questionable.


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## Archeryman101 (Aug 20, 2006)

Nothing changes my opinion. It doesnt work. Like stated above...two totally different outcomes from two different 'well qualified' individuals.


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## Scent-Lok Corp (Apr 12, 2007)

They are talking about two different things. The guy in the lab coat is saying that 5 mL will be sorbs to nearly 100%, 10 mL to about 85% etc. After drying, they return to about the same amount of capacity (within a % or so).

The other is talking about returning to original capacity. Depending on chemical it goes to saturated (100%) after drying 70% free space, then fills up again to 100% and drying again brings it back to 70% free space. 

We will gladly accept phone calls or answer e-mails at the following. 

[email protected]
800-315-5799


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

Will Scent-Lok monitor this thread for any length of time? I know there will be lots of people that would like to have a dialogue about this topic. I for one am still on the fence. I also have dial up and cannot watch the video.


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## cutter10x (Jan 13, 2004)

Scent-Lok Corp said:


> WE have enlisted the help of several highly qualified experts in the field of textile research, human odor research and the sciences related to activated carbon.
> WE asked these experts to evaluate our test methods, results, and to answer the challenges to our product claims based on scientific facts and principles.




i would like to see an independent company conduct these evaluations with no influence from any scent contamination company.....sorry i dont buy it...when YOU enlist the experts.....to much room for controversy...


and for the record i dont think the stuff works.....


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## PAstringking (Dec 8, 2006)

i have heard both sides of the story for a long time and never wanted to spend the money. i also agree with Cutter in that an independent company should do the testing. 

i will add that i dont think it works and it costs way to much for something that isnt proven beyond a reasonable doubt.


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## DUCK29 (Feb 13, 2006)

*Questions for Scent Lok Corp.*

Will putting it in my normal household dryer empty it from all contaminants and odors and restore it back to its virgin or new state?

How many times can it be"reactivated" to its virgin or new state before it becomes unable to perform as it did when it was new?

I will admit I am skeptical of the carbon being able to be emptied of contaminates and or reactivated in a household dryer when all the scientific data I have seen has said that a clothes dryer is no where near hot enough to reactivate it.

What is the REAL minimum temperature it takes to accomplish this?

Thanks in advance for your response.


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## rutnstrut (Sep 16, 2003)

Thanks for the link Scent-Lok Corp. The price isn't bad,now if you want to talk about a over priced product let's talk about Mathews bows.


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## JustOneMoreShot (Jul 24, 2005)

I am very interested. Still "on the fence" but I have great hope that it could be effective enough to make the difference. Is it possible that the suit could erase enough sent that the deer catches only the faintest bit of odor and thinks that maybe a human had passed by many many hours ago??? Maybe the deer would be very cautious and still offer an opportunity that would have been impossible with out the suit? I dont know. I hope to see the video and maybe more testing??? 
They sure do advertise a lot. So they have money and they are out in the field a lot. I would like to spend the $$$ and get it and find out for myself...


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## JustOneMoreShot (Jul 24, 2005)

I would not want to put any Scent Lok clothing in the same dryer that my wife uses! Holy cow it stinks like perfume and fabric softener! 
If I ran a load of bath towels in the washer and dryer with out soap or with plenty of Baking Soda would that remove the Downy Dryer Sheet smell???


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

rutnstrut said:


> now if you want to talk about a over priced product let's talk about Mathews bows.


Amen to that brother!

For all the naysayers this gentlemen is offering you a phone number to call them to ask questions or probably even say negative things about the product. Most however will not take up that offer but instead leave their comments on here. Here is a guy giving you a toll free phone number. Talk with them, email them, they are willing to listen and talk with us.


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

oldglorynewbie said:


> Will Scent-Lok monitor this thread for any length of time? I know there will be lots of people that would like to have a dialogue about this topic. I for one am still on the fence. I also have dial up and cannot watch the video.





DUCK29 said:


> Will putting it in my normal household dryer empty it from all contaminants and odors and restore it back to its virgin or new state?
> 
> How many times can it be"reactivated" to its virgin or new state before it becomes unable to perform as it did when it was new?
> 
> ...


Two questions that were asked without any animosity and with tact and yet no response? I cannot speak for Duck29's question but when I asked mine there were two Scent Lok reps here: Scent Lok Corp and Scent Lok Design. Why two if they were not going to respond to questions? I guess the answer to my question is no. Good luck getting an answer to yours Duck. I believe it is the very crux of the matter.


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> Amen to that brother!
> 
> For all the naysayers this gentlemen is offering you a phone number to call them to ask questions or probably even say negative things about the product. Most however will not take up that offer but instead leave their comments on here. Here is a guy giving you a toll free phone number. Talk with them, email them, they are willing to listen and talk with us.


I asked a rather simple question while TWO scent lok reps were here. They hung around for quite awhile. Why two if they were not gonna answer questions?


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

Maybe they went home for the night, and don't live on AT.:wink: 

Patience, grasshopper!


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

Recordkeeper said:


> Maybe they went home for the night, and don't live on AT.:wink:
> 
> Patience, grasshopper!


I forgot all are not camping out on the Bar Porch.:embara: Fair enough RK.


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*2 Cents*

Here is what I believe after being a Pro-Staffer for one of the Big Two Scent Free Garment Companies: 

First, buy the hunting outfit that is the best made, best camo, most comfortable. If it's Scent Lok..Scent Blocker or Non Scent Absorbing Garmet buy the one you think feels best. (Remember the suit will last a lot longer then the carbon lining!) We used to say the first time you wash a Carbon Garment it loses about 20 % of it's capability and then about 5% each washing after that...(standard life 10-15 washings) that is if it isn't melted...damaged or Extreme Scent contaminated...Gasoline etc...

In the Military we would call a Carbon Suit a Force Multiplier...it won't win the battle but it might just help your odds!

That is the most positive thing I can say....Do I currently own a carbon suit??? I'm sorry but, no I don't. I think for the money a Cabelas Micro Tex Outfit is hard to beat.

But, I encourage people to try them and make their own decision!


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

oldglorynewbie said:


> I asked a rather simple question while TWO scent lok reps were here. They hung around for quite awhile. Why two if they were not gonna answer questions?



Its close to 10PM here in Michigan where Scent Lok is from so yes they probably have retired for tonight and will be ready for tomorrows beat down! :grin:

Honestly guys, call them, guy gives you a toll free number to ask questions but instead you want to post it on here. What gives? I would call the guy and put him on speed dial everytime you have a question. 

How many reps come on here, offer to answer PM's, emails, and take phone calls? Kudos to Scent Loc!


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

I honestly do not want to give them a beat down but I know what you mean. :wink:


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

oldglorynewbie said:


> I honestly do not want to give them a beat down but I know what you mean. :wink:


I know you don't but there are some on here that as soon as they find this new thread, look out! :grin: I know RecordKeeper will keep a close eye on this thread and lock it up if problems happen.

I like seeing reps get on here and answer concerns and questions and this should be an interesting thread.


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> I know you don't but there are some on here that as soon as they find this new thread, look out! :grin: I know RecordKeeper will keep a close eye on this thread and lock it up if problems happen.
> 
> I like seeing reps get on here and answer concerns and questions and this should be an interesting thread.


I agree completely. If folks would keep it a civil discussion reps might even do it more often.:thumbs_up Thanks RK for reigning me in.


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## leon j chartier (Dec 12, 2004)

Two years a go in IL I had 10-12 does scadered out in front of me feeding on a food plot the wind was blowing lighly from them to me.I was dressed head to toe in scent lock that had been fresh out of the dryer that I put on right before I walk from my truck.Well the wind turned I felt a light breeze on the back of my neck and within a minute those does hi tailed it out of there.So from my own personal experience I dont think it works.I just wash down with scent free soap keep my stuff in a clean scent free container and dress up when I park the truck.Then when I get up in my tree I put my outer layer on.
I will say if it helps 10% of smell and it's only a few dollars more I will spend the extra money but I will not go all out on scent lock clothing.


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## LarryM (Feb 4, 2005)

I would ask why there are no legitimate controls in the testing, i.e. suits with no carbon at all? Clean, scent-free clothes can hold a fair amount as well - what is the real capacity/difference?


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## DUCK29 (Feb 13, 2006)

I just thought I would ask the questions on here, because someone responded before me and they responded right back.If they didnt want questions asked on here, they shouldnt of responded to the first neg thing that was posted.


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## Scent-Lok Corp (Apr 12, 2007)

First, I want to thank everybody who has taken the time to watch our presentation. We understand there will be questions and comments on the data that is presented. We have built our company on solid science, excellent products and outstanding customer service. With that in mind we are respectfully requesting that all inquiries be directed to the following. 

Again, thank you for your interest.

Scent-Lok
[email protected]
800-315-5799


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

skyhunter said:


> I watched the video.
> 
> One lab coat guy offered results that were quite different than the other lab coat guy.
> 
> ...


Watch it again. He said 20 -70% of the WEIGHT of the carbon molecule.
Not the amount of capacity.


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

Nick (Scent Lok) is over on HNI right now. He posted this at the same time today. He will be back here. 
Until then I can try to answer any questions un til it's bed for me.
Geno


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

Scent-Lok Corp said:


> First, I want to thank everybody who has taken the time to watch our presentation. We understand there will be questions and comments on the data that is presented. We have built our company on solid science, excellent products and outstanding customer service. With that in mind we are respectfully requesting that all inquiries be directed to the following.
> 
> Again, thank you for your interest.
> 
> ...


I am impressed that you took the time to set up an email address and phone # to address questions. I will use the email soon. Thank you.


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

JustOneMoreShot said:


> I would not want to put any Scent Lok clothing in the same dryer that my wife uses! Holy cow it stinks like perfume and fabric softener!
> If I ran a load of bath towels in the washer and dryer with out soap or with plenty of Baking Soda would that remove the Downy Dryer Sheet smell???



here's a tip. I don't either.

Clean out the lint screen. Spray it w/ some kind of scent-killer.
Then spray the inside of the dryer also. It's a good idea to use a Scent-Lok duffel or storage bag to keep any of the dryer sheet residue off the Scent-Lok fabric. That should take care of it.


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## rjtfroggy (Dec 5, 2006)

*lost incyber space*

I was the first response to this post but it apparently got lost in cyber space must have used Al Gores internet:wink: so here it is again;If your results are so good and the product works as you say why won't the U.S patent office issue a patent for your products.
That is not a bash or argumentative it is however a fair and simple question.


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

*patent*

SL has the patent numbers listed on the hang tags of all their garments.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Thanks and Kudos to Scent-Lok for coming here and offering information to help us all make a better, more well-informed decision in regards to scent containment clothing... it is a highly debated topic here, and elsewhere, I'm sure.. Thanks AT'rs for not using this thread to bash the product.. :thumb: :tea:


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## fasst (Oct 1, 2004)

*Thanks Scent-Lok and AT'ers*

Another thanks for keeping it civil.
While we all know this topic usually turns into a hot debate, these guys did take the time to offer not only a e-mail address, but also a toll fee phone number to answer any questions one on one. Can't beat that!!


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## rjtfroggy (Dec 5, 2006)

scent-loc corp.
Some one here said you hold the patent on this clothing, if you do is for the technology behind your claims? Is it for the ability to recharge or reactivate? Please tell us what the patents are for because many on here and else where say U.S.patent office will not grant one to you.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

rjtfroggy said:


> scent-loc corp.
> Some one here said you hold the patent on this clothing, if you do is for the technology behind your claims? Is it for the ability to recharge or reactivate? Please tell us what the patents are for because many on here and else where say U.S.patent office will not grant one to you.


All ya have to do to answer that question is go to their website.. It lists the patents, both held and notes that others are pending....


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

IGluIt4U said:


> All ya have to do to answer that question is go to their website.. It lists the patents, both held and notes that others are pending....


You can also go to this website and research the claim on these or any patents and see for yourself exactly what has been patented:

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Recordkeeper said:


> You can also go to this website and research the claim on these or any patents and see for yourself exactly what has been patented:
> 
> http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html


Thanks RK.. I was gettin to that....  :lol: :tea:

or here... :wink: patent search by patent number


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## ciscokid (Apr 26, 2006)

:moviecorn:


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Info*

Thanks Scent Lok...I agree wholeheartedly it is a personal choise, but you are facing the critics head on...that is a pretty admirable thing!

Who knows you might even win me back...I always need more hunting clothes!

:wink:


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*yes*



LarryM said:


> I would ask why there are no legitimate controls in the testing, i.e. suits with no carbon at all? Clean, scent-free clothes can hold a fair amount as well - what is the real capacity/difference?


I wonder that myself. The controlled test was done but no mention of using just a cotton or a cotton/poly blend fabric without any carbon. I suspect that typical cotton fabric would hold a lot.

I just watched it. Here is what I have questions on, and if the ScentLok guys read this they can call me. PM for a phone number anytime. I don't use it or believe in it so sell me. Burden of proof is on you, not me. Here is a few questions. 

1. Dr Thompson mentioned absorption (chemical) and adsorption (physical) and the differences. Said the human odor we are working with is adsorption, or the physical process. questions. 
a. Isn't odor a gas and be a chemical? 
b. Is physical process what it says, physically? 
Refer to the liquid in the test jars and as stated, vapor in the 
upper part of the jar. Physically absorbs the liquid and vapor
2. What is EMA Vapor? Brian said it is a physical vapor.
3. Difference in a vapor and a gas? Molecule size? They are both airborn.
4. If physical 'absorption' is occuring, basically sticking on the outside of the object (carbon), and that is not nearly as strong as a chemical 'adsorption', as stated by both 'experts', can that not release or "blow away" so to speak? 
5. If we want it to work on us like in a jar, in a liquid and vapor, wouldn't we need it right up against our bodies or skin to absorb the liquid and vapor before it becomes a gas, assuming some of our odor is a gas? If so Base Slayers is the way to go. 
6. Why, according to the studies listed on the left of the screen, have you only used ONE lab since 2001, Intertek? Brian said he had been there for 5 yrs. Same guy. And coinsidently Dr Thompson mentioned doing work with them also on this matter. Why not an independent lab. 
7. Dr Thompson is an expert in textiles. How does this qualify him in Carbon effectiveness and regeneration?
8. Has Brian tested normal material right beside carbon material? If so what are the results?
9. Did not see a regular dryer at the lab. Did they wash and dry them there? 
10. If we took one of your garments off of the shelf and did the test Brian conducted would we get the same results? And if you think so, will you fund 50% of a totally independent lab test?
11. Do you have any really big jars to hunt out of? 

If you contact me direct I will post your response on here, or you can respond on here as well. Thanks


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

> 4. If physical 'absorption' is occurring, basically sticking on the outside of the object (carbon), and that is not nearly as strong as a chemical 'adsorption', as stated by both 'experts', can that not release or "blow away" so to speak?


Yes it can release, and that is what is desireable. However the temperature required to produce that reaction is what has been highly debated. I believe you have the "b" and the "d" reversed, but you do have the processes correct.

Physical is a*d*sorption, and like you stated, where the odor molecules cling to the outer surface of the activated carbon particles. One element is added to the other but they do not "mix" together.

Chemical is a*b*sorption; for instance water becoming a part of the the sponge.

That said, it is possible though that you heard it correctly. I also thought I heard absorption when the first (bald headed) lab coat guy was describing the process of adsorption. I replayed the video; but it was difficult to be certain what was said.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

CLEANSHOT1000 said:


> I wonder that myself. The controlled test was done but no mention of using just a cotton or a cotton/poly blend fabric without any carbon. I suspect that typical cotton fabric would hold a lot.
> 
> I just watched it. Here is what I have questions on, and if the ScentLok guys read this they can call me. PM for a phone number anytime. I don't use it or believe in it so sell me. Burden of proof is on you, not me. Here is a few questions.
> 
> ...


This issue was brought in the last locked up thread. Great if it can be done in a lab but come to real home and try it with all the VOC that float inside a house. They say the air in yoru house can be worse than the air outside and thats what is drying your clothes.


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## zyxw (Feb 19, 2007)

I have used it for years and it DOES work. Does it completely elimanate oders. I doubt it but it does cut down on the amount of oder your body gives off. You can't just put it on and it alone do the job. You need to keep it clean and in an air tight container. You need to bath in unsented soap before going hunting and I don't take mine out of the scentloc bag till I'm in my stand and take it off before I leave. I have killed several big mature bucks at close range (under 20 yds) with the wind blowing straight at them. Last year I had a 130 plus buck that I let walk bed down for over an hour downwind 25yds away and never smelled me. Could tell of many instances like this. I'm a true believer but as I said you have to us it smartly


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## Mach 10 (Apr 8, 2003)

I do not think it works. I hope I didn't step over the " bashing " line !!!

Mach 10


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## PLAYER (Apr 25, 2006)

*Scent Free Hunting Wear*

I wear the anti-microbial (sp) underwear and Scent Lok outerwear. I believe they work. There is no way to stay completely scent free, but I try to cover all the bases. I use non-scent soap, and spray my rubber boots and outer clothes. Since getting serious with this routine some years ago, the number of really close, down wind, deer I see has increased greatly. I usually get busted when I move, cough, or wake-up (lol). To say that carbon clothes don't work based on hear-say, or a 1-time experience is stretching the truth. It does work! Just make sure you do the 'total scent free routine' EVERYTIME!
Finally, for you nay-sayers: if you really did buy the whole suit and have decided it doesn't work, send it to me, mine's getting worn out. 
Player


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## zyxw (Feb 19, 2007)

PLAYER said:


> I wear the anti-microbial (sp) underwear and Scent Lok outerwear. I believe they work. There is no way to stay completely scent free, but I try to cover all the bases. I use non-scent soap, and spray my rubber boots and outer clothes. Since getting serious with this routine some years ago, the number of really close, down wind, deer I see has increased greatly. I usually get busted when I move, cough, or wake-up (lol). To say that carbon clothes don't work based on hear-say, or a 1-time experience is stretching the truth. It does work! Just make sure you do the 'total scent free routine' EVERYTIME!
> Finally, for you nay-sayers: if you really did buy the whole suit and have decided it doesn't work, send it to me, mine's getting worn out.
> Player


You hit the nail on the head with this post. When it first came out I was totally convinced it couldn't work. My hunting buddy bought it and swore by it and I told him it couldn't work. After a couple years he proved me wrong and I broke down and gave it a chance. For the first ime in my life I was wrong! LOL I saw a noticeable difference. When you have a 6 year old 180 buck at 12 yards eye level and the wind blowing towards him and he don't spook you're doing something right. He's on the wall now and it wasn't a high fence pet either.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

zyxw said:


> You hit the nail on the head with this post. When it first came out I was totally convinced it couldn't work. My hunting buddy bought it and swore by it and I told him it couldn't work. After a couple years he proved me wrong and I broke down and gave it a chance. For the first ime in my life I was wrong! LOL I saw a noticeable difference. When you have a 6 year old 180 buck at 12 yards eye level and the wind blowing towards him and he don't spook you're doing something right. He's on the wall now and it wasn't a high fence pet either.


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## MXZ (Feb 10, 2004)

Well I have stayed clear of this topic for quite some time but feel I'll share my feelings on the topic as it seems everyone has an opinion. First I'm happy to see that Scent-lok has done a good job answering many of the questions and yes I'm quite sure there will always be some as hunters are human at least most of them anyway. 

Here how I felt 11 years ago when I first started wearing scent reducing camo.
I looked at it like this the camo I would buy has to be of high quality and bow hunter friendly. I'm really glad to say that both Scent-lok & S-blocker have meant this challenge and improved on it a lot in just the last few years. 

So I'm going on this 10 day bow hunt in IL. total cost of the hunt is going to be $3000. and I'm making the numbers here easy to work with if that ok? As I get ready I need some new camo and I'm only interested in high quality camo. My partner is in the same position as my self. So we take off to go purchase our camo and after looking over tons of stuff he locates this really nice set of camo no scent controlling to it but high quality he pays $300. for his setup.

I continue thinking and for to make the numbers easy again say I get my new camo with scent controlling in it and pay $80.00 more think that's fair but as you'll see it really don't matter if it makes you feel better raise or lower the numbers what you must. Now it is my opinion that these camo with scent controlling in them are really well built for bow hunting. The camo I have fit really well and are well designed for bow hunting I don't think any hunter could say different with these new camo top quality and well thought out.

Anyway here we are on our 10 days hunt in IL. our Trophy hunt is off and all goes well. Deer movement is great the hunt is over and I'm look at a hunt where my hunting partner saw 35 bucks in his 10 day hunt. Now for me my camo that I paid $80.00 more for cost me a grand total of $8. a day to wear over what my partner
paid and of course that per day cost will only go down each day I hunt. So for $8. a day I got the camo I wanted and it has scent controlling in it so let just say it
give me a 10% improvement now I know not fair to say but play the game. Say that mean that on my $3000. hunt this allows me to see 10% more deer that's 3.5
more deer during the hunt. Now next year when I hunt 10 more days that extra cost drops down to $4.00 and on & on.

This again is my own opinion but for my chances of to be improved 10% or 1 percent of harvesting my trophy I'll gladly pay an extra $8 a day on top of the $300.a day for hunt.

Now for those who really don't think this stuff helps well beside my wall screaming that it dose! That is fine because some of it I would still buy and the reason again it is well built fits well and is build with bowhunter in mind. So if your the kind of person who goes out and buy's your a new car for $25,000.00 and really loves having a sun roof but orders it with out because you want to save that extra $500.00 then do the same thing when you buy your camo it's your money. 

By the way if you keep that car just 3 years having the sun roof you loved cost you about .46cents additional aday over 3 years. Don't cheat your self for the wrong reason if you don't think this stuff helps that's your opinion but my guess is it helps and my hunting chances on mature bucks has increased well beyond where it was before
scent controlling camo. I now use the silver base under my Scent -Lok and Scent-Bl ----- camo. 

Can't tell you if that made even more improvement or now because I have been winded so little with scent control camos it would be hard to judge any improvement. But if I like something and lets make it clear I hate sun roofs! but if I like it life to short to cheat your self if $8. is not to much additional cost that is.

But the best test has been completed by me and that is my wall while not full has grown beyond my dreams and with nothing to be gained I place some of that directly on scent controlling garments. Now I'll be the first one to say that not all hunters are crated equally and by that I mean buying a scent controlling garment throwing it on and heading out hunting is not all you need to become more consistent harvesting mature bucks but in my opinion base of my 30+ years of hunting it will be some percentage of help.

In just the past 5 years a lone I have harvested serval nice mature bucks with my bow and 4 of them were dead down wind and here are the distances that these 4 down wind bucks were harvested at 7yards,5yards,9 yards and 18 yards. In the past 10 season of hunting I have only knowing been winded to the point where the deer actually took off two times and one of those times I was not wearing my scent suit because it was in the 70's.

So the debate goes on I'm sure my opinion is worth little but to any who ever asked me how are you being so consistent on harvesting mature bucks part of the answer is right here and I believe that and like I said its not 100% but I'll pay $8 extra every day to keep things going the way they are you can't put a price on just a 1% increase and I'd give this stuff under my hunting format a much higher rating.

Here is what 10 seasons of testing has done for me and yes two of those bucks were taken prior to hunting with Scent controlling camo. But this past season I added two more that have not yet been placed on the wall.

Well I care less what another hunter wears when he hunts but thought I'd be fair to those who just are not sure and the deal is these garments are well built with the hunter in mind they are comfortable and in my opinion worth the extra $8. a day in your first 10 days of hunting. My test is over years of seeing more deer and surely more mature deer that I ever thought could happen and rarely being winded. 

I feel that what some hunters do is get seen moving in there stand and that with a low amount of human scent and off goes your deer. But I had deer as close as
3 yards look right at me and try to wind me as long as I did not move at all 99% of those deer have relaxed in under 1min. and continued on about there way.

To close all the na sayers I have no issue with you not liking the product and care less if you elect to wear it or not. To those who have used it and feel it works I'm happy to say we agree. And to someone sitting on the fence get off one way or the other but remember were talking about $80.00 or so $8. a day if you only hunt 10 days with it. And even if you feel it don't work you have some of the best built camo for bow hunting on the market...sun roof or not!

Me I have nothing to gain by saying that it works but as I saw someone say on here earlier if you wear XL and you don't like your camo get a hold of me I'll gladly take a donation.... hey everyone good luck in the coming season with or with out scent controlling garments... a huntN friend Gary.


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## slingr (Jan 30, 2006)

i'm still not buying into it.


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## Archeryman101 (Aug 20, 2006)

Seems like they would answer questions on here. Many people have the same question so they could aswer once on here, or answer it 10,000 times in emails and phone calls. Maybe they just want to keep in private so that when they dont have an answer to a lot of the questions it isnt so public! Seems odd they want to keep everything hush hush. Kinda like using the same lab testers for years and years. Those lab testers must be on Scent-Lok payroll.


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Nice Picture/Bucks*

I like your idea of using cost as a gauge...But, if you are going to do that you missed a major variable....WASHING THE SUIT DEGRADES THE EFFECTIVENESS! So that 8.00 to 4.00 thing is not a fair assessment....Also, The smell of Carbon....there is nothing like it in the woods...we all smell it when we take the clothes out of the dryer...Don't you think Mr. Buck smells it?

Lastly, if the dryer is reactivating the carbon because the particles are not firmly embedded (NOT NEEDING 700 - 1200 Degree Temp To Remove) then wouldn't a regular Outfit do basically the same thing if you kept it clean and scent free?

I think the One thing these companies have done is get people to use a Scent Free Regiment.

Sorry...I had to respond...Not trying to Bash.


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*Mxz*

Where do I start with your input? HUMILITY. 

We all like good stories but my gosh man, I know hunters that have forgotten more than I know that have not killed as nice of bucks as I have. I just had good spots and more time. 

- have you experienced more success in the last seven years in Illinois than Vermont, or where ever you hunted prior?
- Do you hunt on the ground?
- If not on the ground do you believe, while in a stand 15-20 ft high, the wind and scent will go over the deers back when the deer is at anywhere from 4-18 yds out, unless swirling down?
- How do you recharge your clothes to be so effective?

DONE


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## Archeryman101 (Aug 20, 2006)

*Mkz.....*

If everyone paid an outfitter it might not matter what clothes they wear. By that I mean obviously it is a great place to hunt....it probably isnt the clothes!

I really got nothing from your statement except that you wanted everyone to know how much money you spend!


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## Scottie (Oct 29, 2004)

I'm as careful as can be with scent. Dress in the field, wash and shower correctly, store clothes in scent free baggage, etc.... A few years ago I bought into the Scent-Lok craze. I was busted a few times with the 
$ 300 + suits (head cover, gloves, coat and pants) albeit I was not hunting with the correct winds, but isn't that the purpose? I no longer use them or believe in them at all. 

From my personal experience with them, I've become more patient and hunt the correct stands with the correct winds. It's free and cannot be debated.


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## slingr (Jan 30, 2006)

here's a test we can all do. go to the local sports store and find some scent blocker, the kind with the stinky scratch-n-sniff sample attached. scratch the material and smell it. then put the scent blocker cloth over the smelly material and take another sniff........voila! no smell. but now take your cotton t-shirt and place it over the same smelly patch..........voila! no smell. but did the cotton adsorb the odor? no, but neither did the scent blocker. it's called effective marketing. and they are good at it.:darkbeer:


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## Bullish9 (Aug 27, 2002)

The video presentation was a good attempt to place some scientific evidence behind the product, does this end the controversy, no, however people have been asking for some scientific evidence for the longest and here it is and of course it was picked apart. Could it have been better done by an independent laboratory, maybe, but then that would get picked apart as well. So the reality is some will never be convinced no matter what evidence is provided, some will remain loyal customers and some sitting on the fence will give it a try. 

It is amazing that archer’s treat the Scent-loc works/doesn't work argument like we were discussing religion. 

Does it work, don’t know, don’t really care, but before companies like Scent-loc we were all running around the woods in leftover US army surplus cotton BDUs. Companies like Scent Loc have brought hunting clothing a long way from the 80's.

Their products look good & feel comfortable, I don’t depend on Scent loc or other garments to get my prey, nor do I depend on the make or model of my bow, I depend on my skills as a hunter. The rest are all tools that help to make my experience more pleasant.


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## MEMORIES (Oct 19, 2005)

*I Am Lurking !!*

:zip: :zip: :zip: for now !!! :wink:


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Ib4Hoyt said:


> sales must be droping....



nice productive comment!


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## MXZ (Feb 10, 2004)

Regohio,
No problem don't see it as bashing, you have your right to feel how ever you wish. Me I have harvested many large mature bucks many of them dead down wind and inside 12 yards. No you say what ever make you feel good cause it's not going to impact my WALL.... Far as carbon smell you think thats why I'm harvesting mature bucks in close, you might be on to something there maybe we should sell carbon to replace doe in heat as for me at least its working just fine. I don't think I will be changing any of my hunting tactics real soon.



happy hunting in the coming season....:smile:  a huntN friend MXZ:smile: 






Regohio said:


> I like your idea of using cost as a gauge...But, if you are going to do that you missed a major variable....WASHING THE SUIT DEGRADES THE EFFECTIVENESS! So that 8.00 to 4.00 thing is not a fair assessment....Also, The smell of Carbon....there is nothing like it in the woods...we all smell it when we take the clothes out of the dryer...Don't you think Mr. Buck smells it?
> 
> Lastly, if the dryer is reactivating the carbon because the particles are not firmly embedded (NOT NEEDING 700 - 1200 Degree Temp To Remove) then wouldn't a regular Outfit do basically the same thing if you kept it clean and scent free?
> 
> ...


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Excellent*

I'm glad to help...Whitetails are curious...maybe that Carbon Smell Drives them crazy...It sure seems to get the Wife excited when I take it out of the dryer! She seems to think it stinks, but Her nose may be more finicky than Mr. Buck?

Who knows at least the Suits work for You.


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## MXZ (Feb 10, 2004)

CLEANSHOT1000 said:


> Where do I start with your input? HUMILITY.
> 
> We all like good stories but my gosh man, I know hunters that have forgotten more than I know that have not killed as nice of bucks as I have. I just had good spots and more time.
> 
> ...


CLEANSHOT1000,

Answering your questions best I can:

1) I have done very well in IL. how ever I have harvested mature bucks in many different states. Il. happens that I located a place that allows me to hunt and do everything myself and the management program allows for some of the lowest hunting pressure on the farms we hunt. I do not hunt semi-guided or guided hunts. I tried a few of those up in Canada back many years ago and they were fun but just simply not really my thing. Far as Vermont goes I have not hunted my home state for many years. I travel to Maine,NH, or NY if I want to hunt close to home. Vermonts deer herd is a joke! and they don't have what I'm looking for in the herd.

Far as having doing better in IL. than other places I have hunted well most othere locations I hunted I only did so for 1 to 3 years not including Maine, as that is where I used to hunt when time would not permit me to travel longer distances. No I work a regular job like most hunters and just simply pass on other hobbie my life is family and hunting mature bucks dedication to the sport is really high. So to answer your question I did manage to harvest at least one mature buck in most of the places I hunted. More in IL. but that may be because I located a place to hunt again that I really enjoy and I do it my way no guides not that kind of hunt.

#2) No I do not hunt from the ground unless I'm hunting in northern Maine, NY or NH. in those locations I would be tracking bucks and using a gun. If you have never done that type of hunting I really recommend you try it one day. It is most challenging and you go one on one most of the time at days end the buck wins at least when I'm trailing them but when you score on that type of hunting it is most rewarding. 

#3) I hunt at 18 to 20 feet do I think when the deer is in that close that scent is taken over the top of him? Some times yes surely how ever he had to come from some from 100,50,25, to get in that close right?

#4) I have two suits a tipcal season for me allows me to hunt give or take a day or 2 for about 12 to 14 days. I don't wash my suits unless they get blood or mud in them. I don't wear them after I harvest a deer I go back to my truck and change into old camo before derssing. I reactivate my camo after 4 days of use thus allowing me to only reactivate each suit a max of two times a season. I leave them in the dryer for 45 min. on the highest heat.

***) To close I'm not telling anyone that they should run out and buy these camos! I am simply stating what is fact for me and that is I have had many close encounters and even if you take the deer away that I have harvested.
The deer mature doe that I have had within 3 to 4 yards and yes I have seen deer stick thier nose right up in the air while looking at me and try to wind me if I stayed motionless most of the time the deer relax and go about the day. I could go on and on but did not put my first post on this subject here to try and win anyone over or debait the subject. The reason was to simply put out there for those who care I'm one hunter who has surely had many close encounters with both deer that I harvested and many many more that I elected not to harvest and yup a few walked a way that I did not intend to let walk..tee

So to close do I think that one of these suits is the solo reason many of these deer were harvested NO! do I think it helped YES! Did I kill any big deer before scent controlling garmet use you bet but not as consistant and I can say for sure that I have had way more close encounters using it along with my silver base that I just added about two season back.

I have been luck to have hunted the different places but rest a sured that I'm just a working person who's wife has no issue's with me doing what I love and I use 4 of my 6 weeks Vac. to hunt. My xmas gift from my wife every year is money or something to do with hunting. 

I hunt IL. now and have for years as my primary hunt. I could have picked anyone of 13 different states and canada to make my primary hunting location but I picked IL. because of all the places I had hunted it was the place I most look forward to returning. Like I said its do it your self and I enjoy all the other hunters who I see there. My partner and I get our own farm to hunt while there and the hunting has been great. 

So I really don't care what another hunter wears or what ever just thought I'd share the facts about how I feel and they happen to be positive. If in fact the suits are not of any use there still great camo.:wink: 

Thanks & best of luck to you in the coming season CLEANSHOT1000. 
a huntN friend MXZ....:smile:


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Thank you Scentlok*

Now we have something to work with. At least the so called experts are known and we can contact them and ask other experts to have discussions with them. 
I look forward to an open and honest discussions of the facts in print and letting the chips fall where they may. Good Luck ?


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## deer man (Dec 31, 2003)

*scent lok*

i have been using scent lok last 4 years and i believe this product has increased my chances.i have had deer downwind still come in,leary.but they were in shooting range.jim


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

There is an old saying in cases like this. "Try it" Plain and simple.
Scent-Lok has provided the Scientific evidence that has been asked for.

You can't hunt deer w/ a science book. When it's all said and done who do you trust more than yourself? That's right...no one.

If you still aren't convinced SL will help keep you from getting winded. 
Give it your own acid test. A liner system is pretty cheap if $ is an issue.
JUST TRY IT!!!!! and see for yourself.

PM me if I can help.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*email adresses for SL experts*

Dr.Donald B. Thompson - [email protected]

S. Holger Eichhorn - [email protected]

Email them and see if they will respond. Check with you local University or College and ask them guestions about these scientific claims. On the most part they will be glad to assist you. If you have a carbon or related company (ie 3M) give them a call.

There are plenty of scientist that disagree with the conclusions reached by Eichhorn and Thompson and if you find some please PM me with your information

Everyones creditability is on the line.


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*Reply from SL?*

I still have not gotten a reply on my questions that I posted to SL. I am sure the gentleman that represents SL on here that started the thread checks it ever-so-often.

If so, if you (Scent-Lok guy), do not want to reply here, got to www.sportssalesoutdoor.com to contact me. Again,the burden is on SL, not me. I really am curious about a response. And no, they did not answer the questions and provide scientific proof. In a jar, with no other fabric comparison? 

ASAT gives a guarantee. I wonder if SL would. 
"If you do not see more game while using this clothing we will buy it back". per ASAT.


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*Must See -Scent Lok PM Response*

_We thank you for you interest in our technology. Unfortunately due to the hostile nature and argumentitive nature several board members interject in lines of questions; we have decided to cease responding to direct questions in public forums. We will address general questions as we contiune to augment the science information with additional information.

To provide you with the best in customer service and provide you with accurate answers to questions, please contact us through the means listed below. 

[email protected]
800-315-5799_

This was the response in a PM to me. SL, please make the answers public. You brought it out. You have the general questions in a post.


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

That post will surely get pulled as it had to do with a PM.

But I think it is funny that they claim "hostile" and "argumentative" responses on the topic. I don't think there has been one hostile response posted. A few kudo's have been posted and a few honest questions, pretty much all.

I'm just sitting back enjoying the read. Enjoyed the video too. Hollywood can work miracles, IMO.


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

A firm reminder...PM's are NOT to be posted on the forum boards. They are confidential and private.


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## bobcat91 (Oct 18, 2006)

I use use an antimicrobial undergarment and No Trace shirts and pants. Is this effective--yes. Do I think that I am totally scent free--No. The same with Scent Lok or Scent Blocker--yes, I believe they are effective for a while, but no I don't believe that the suit keeps me totally scent free. I don't own any of the Scent Lok or Scent Blocker clothes because 1) They are expensive and 2) their effectiveness rapidly diminishes in my opinion from previous use. I like the feel of alot of the new Scent Lok clothes such as Full season and Buckskin, but until they come up with a way to purchase new carbon liners so that I don't have to disgard the entire garment, then I won't buy their product.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Question for SL*

I appericate your claim to be a scientific company and we should be able to use the scientific community in our discussions.

In your presentation Dr. Thompson said you use a "temperature swing process" I would like an explanation on how you can have a swing in temperature in a home dryer.

I have talked with a number of experts in the carbon field and the "temperature swing process' used in reactivation is explained in the following way. First the compound is removed(desorbed) and then there is a swing of the temperature to a higher temperature to reactivate. The temperatures that they talk about are higher then can be reached in a dryer and the swing process that Dr. Thompson mentioned would be difficult if not impossible with my dryer. Again if are to use scientific principles I would like an explanation of his statement


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

One point that has not been mentioned has to do with the compounds that the SL is adborbing. What we give off in odor is an organic compound as opposed to a chemical compound. It does not take as high a temp. to reactivate carbon or strip the carbon that only picked up non chemical gasses. 

I believe this was mentioned in the first part of the video.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Carbon has no favorite odors*



archer58 in pa said:


> One point that has not been mentioned has to do with the compounds that the SL is adborbing. What we give off in odor is an organic compound as opposed to a chemical compound. It does not take as high a temp. to reactivate carbon or strip the carbon that only picked up non chemical gasses.
> 
> I believe this was mentioned in the first part of the video.


Not to belittle the point but carbon is non selective in what it will absorb and what do you do with these other compounds. Carbon does not limit itself to human odors because its in camoflauge but is going to absorb anything it comes in contact with.


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

Yes, that's correct. But if you follow the recommendations for using SL, they should never come in contact w/ anything other than human odor.
I store my suits in a SL duffel and store that inside a closed rubbermaid chest.
I dress away from my vehicle and when I'm done hunting put my siut back in the same containers.
During the off season they're stored the same way but I add a plastic bag to put the duffel in.

They never come in contact w/ gas or smoke or anything of that nature.
The only times they are out is when i'm hunting, or washing them.


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## caseykey (Mar 15, 2007)

It seems that "Scent Lok Science "changes first they "reactivate like new" then they "regenerate" then "desorb" and now they are back to "reactivate". Let me remind you what Mr. Sesselman said on WWMT Television "we say reactivate because it's something a lay person can get their hands around. But, it is really a regeneration process that occurs. But, were really not reactivating carbon, but really desorbing the odors that have been there."
Then on 
On Fox TV November 09, 2006 9:17pm
Reporter Trish VanPilsum : "Is the use of the word reactivation, regeneration a bit misleading?"

Mike Andrews. VP of Marketing Scent Lok "Yes, it is from a scientific standpoint"
Trish VanPilsum :"So why use it then"

Mike Andrews" We feel the consumer has a better understanding of using a term reactivation, you could say the word desorb, which is probably the more scientific word, but we just don't think...."

Trish VanPilsum: It might be the more honest word"

Mike Andrews: Well, our honesty is in our guarantee, you know, and the results we produce."
Maybe if they were consistent in their explanation there would be less confusion. 
So which is it??????????????????


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Will there be any responce ?*



Scent-Lok Corp said:


> First, I want to thank everybody who has taken the time to watch our presentation. We understand there will be questions and comments on the data that is presented. We have built our company on solid science, excellent products and outstanding customer service. With that in mind we are respectfully requesting that all inquiries be directed to the following.
> 
> Again, thank you for your interest.
> 
> ...


We believe from your last two posts that your only responces will be private seeing that you are requesting all inquiries are to be directed to you.
In the interest of science,which you claim that your company is built on, your presentation has been supplied to three of the leading carbon experts. Two are from the US and the other from Europe. They will be evaluating your presentation claims and testing methods. They are not being compensated and in the interest of science have agreed to do some indepentant test. Upon receiving their reports they will be posted on AT and other forums and perhaps issued in a report that will be made available.
It seems that the compounds that have been chosen to test are not very representative of actual body odor according to a PHD in California who is going to put together a report.


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## MEMORIES (Oct 19, 2005)

*I am still lurking !!*

:zip: :zip: :zip: :wink:


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

MEMORIES said:


> :zip: :zip: :zip: :wink:


You are still lurking....why?


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## Archeryman101 (Aug 20, 2006)

*Anyone else???*

I contacted the number on here that Scent-Lok said to call. I left a message just aas they said to on the recording. I also sent emails with my questions. This has been almost two weeks ago and I still have not gotten anything in return. Anyone else have this issue?


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## caseykey (Mar 15, 2007)

*Ema*

Ethyl Methyl Amine , Boiling point approximately 150 degrees. Is that a coincidence or did they pick a chemical that would boil at dryer temperature and come off carbon. Though they say humans produce 350 different chemicals in their ads, they pick ethyl methly amine to prove their point. It is not a human odor. Why are they doing that? Do the same experiment with hexanol or methanol or ketone ,methylmercaptan ,hydrogen sulfide,2-hydroxypropanoic acid, isovaleric acid , real human odors and see what results you get. Then they can make their "reactivate like new", "desorb","regenerate" "partially reactivate" claims.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

caseykey said:


> Ethyl Methyl Amine , Boiling point approximately 150 degrees. Is that a coincidence or did they pick a chemical that would boil at dryer temperature and come off carbon. Though they say humans produce 350 different chemicals in their ads, they pick ethyl methly amine to prove their point. It is not a human odor. Why are they doing that? Do the same experiment with hexanol or methanol or ketone ,methylmercaptan ,hydrogen sulfide,2-hydroxypropanoic acid, isovaleric acid , real human odors and see what results you get. Then they can make their "reactivate like new", "desorb","regenerate" "partially reactivate" claims.


Thats some interesting stuff right there.


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*PM Deal*

I had a PM posted from them. Did not know the rule. Banned for a few days. I will not cut and paste but will paraphrase next time. Sorry. Will have to trust my comments. Personally, I like the actual post or PM. 

I do have a very lengthy email from them with responses to my questions at the top of page 2 here. 2 emails all together, not including the PM. 

Not sure if I can copy and paste here from a regular email. Is that considered a "PM"? If not I will post. 

They are having much difficulty getting there patents renewed. I am not sure why. There may have to be some actual truth to securing a patent. They will not respond to questions publically. But they will get there info out publically.
Would you believe in a politician with that style? The Truth always matters.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Patent and related items*

Just to keep the record straight the patent is not being renewed but is under reexam. This means that the patent office feels that they want to take a new look at the validity of the patent. This happened when Scentlok(ALS) took No Trace to court in Western Mich. claiming Patent infringement.Once No Trace was financially unable to continue Scentlok dropped the case. During the course of the court case the attorney for No Trace challenged the patent and was granted a reexam and the patent office rejected claims1-10,Then Scentlok submitted claims 11-59 which in turn were also rejected and now Scentlok has submitted more new claims 60- . This process started in Nov. of 2004 and is still on going. 27 months,180 documents,over 1800 pages with over 1000+ not available to the public and two private meetings. ( all public knowledge an can be verifyed)
I know I won't get an answer but why do the patent claims have to change again and again ?

It would seem to me that if the Scentlok Science is going to be posted publically that the responces to questions should not have to be submitted by email or by calling an 800 number . If they are going to ask us to accept their explanation as presented , then they should respond publically unless there is something to hide. 
" We are a scientific company and are built on scientific principles " 
All we want to do is understand what those scientific principles are and what they are based on ?


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## BIGNICK (Feb 14, 2006)

*Keep up the good work.*

I think it rocks! Thanks for the info.


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## splintergunn (Dec 6, 2003)

Let's look at it from another point. Activated carbon aside, SL makes some of the best and most comfortable clothing on the market. If you look at the price of a Scentlok jacket, and compare that to a jacket of equal quality, the price is about the same. Now, throw in activated carbon lining, and you have an excellent value even if you believe it works or not. If your the kind of hunter who wants to wear good, durable, quiet, quality clothing, and your in the market for new camo this year, TRY IT !!

I personally believe in this stuff. It's not magical though. You have to keep it clean and recharged. You still have to play the wind and use common sense, 
but it still gives you an extra advantage. If a buck walks under your treestand and gets a good strong whiff of human odor, he's gone. But if he only gets a slight hint of human odor, he may stick around awhile.
I still make mistakes in the deer woods, and have been caught offguard several times that I just knew that the deer were going to wind me, but they didn't. I give the credit to my ScentLok.

TRY IT!! Give it an honest chance, follow the recommendations and use common sense, and I'd say you'll be completely convinced that it works.
If not, you still have a great hunting garment and didn't waste your money.


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

> Let's look at it from another point. Activated carbon aside, SL makes some of the best and most comfortable clothing on the market. If you look at the price of a Scentlok jacket, and compare that to a jacket of equal quality, the price is about the same.





> TRY IT!! Give it an honest chance, follow the recommendations and use common sense, and I'd say you'll be completely convinced that it works.
> If not, you still have a great hunting garment and didn't waste your money.


1st point: Prices are not close when you look at the modestly priced lines. Here's the first line of clothes I went to.

Cabelas: Silent weave mossy oak and predator camo series.

reg. six pocket pants: $29.95
with scent lok: $69.95 (over 100% increase)

reg. insulated hooded jacket: $49.95
with scent lok : $89.95 (again large difference)

For most items I see a $40 difference; and yes I will agree that is not that big when you are buying higher priced clothing lines.

2nd point: about "so what if it does not work, the prices are close"

Lets say the activated carbon in your suit has adsorbed all the odors that it can, and is "full". If these clothes cannot be regenerated and you continue to hunt in them, then you are actually carrying around a whole pile of odors wherever you decide to hunt.

Quality clothes or not; carrying around a sack full of extra odors can't be a good thing.


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## hooks (Mar 22, 2005)

Recordkeeper said:


> You are still lurking....why?


RC, are you talking to yourself again??


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## hooks (Mar 22, 2005)

splintergunn said:


> Let's look at it from another point. Activated carbon aside, SL makes some of the best and most comfortable clothing on the market. If you look at the price of a Scentlok jacket, and compare that to a jacket of equal quality, the price is about the same. Now, throw in activated carbon lining, and you have an excellent value even if you believe it works or not. If your the kind of hunter who wants to wear good, durable, quiet, quality clothing, and your in the market for new camo this year, TRY IT !!
> 
> I personally believe in this stuff. It's not magical though. You have to keep it clean and recharged. You still have to play the wind and use common sense,
> but it still gives you an extra advantage. If a buck walks under your treestand and gets a good strong whiff of human odor, he's gone. But if he only gets a slight hint of human odor, he may stick around awhile.
> ...


TRY IT??? Aaaaaaaaaaa I DID. Never again.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

I've been on the fence since the stuff was introduced, and had a tough time deciding whether to buy it or not. About the time I was ready to do it I actually won a full set of new Scentlok stuff by meeting sales, and satisfaction incentives. I have a head cover, jacket, pants, and gloves. I wear them every time I'm in the woods. Do I rely on them? No. They are the last layer, over cover scented cloths in a complete effort to get into the woods while containing my human scent. The quality of the clothing is top notch, comfortable, and I like it. After having had it for awhile, and knowing what I know now, I would not be on the fence about it. I'd buy it. I also believe that I'll be using it for a long time. It's an extra added little edge that I'm comfortable with like other things I use that are a matter of personal comfort, and taste.


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## caseykey (Mar 15, 2007)

2005Ultramag said:


> I've been on the fence since the stuff was introduced, and had a tough time deciding whether to buy it or not. About the time I was ready to do it I actually won a full set of new Scentlok stuff by meeting sales, and satisfaction incentives. I have a head cover, jacket, pants, and gloves. I wear them every time I'm in the woods. Do I rely on them? No. They are the last layer, over cover scented cloths in a complete effort to get into the woods while containing my human scent. The quality of the clothing is top notch, comfortable, and I like it. After having had it for awhile, and knowing what I know now, I would not be on the fence about it. I'd buy it. I also believe that I'll be using it for a long time. It's an extra added little edge that I'm comfortable with like other things I use that are a matter of personal comfort, and taste.


I got some swamp land in Florida, you will need a boat to get to it.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

caseykey said:


> I got some swamp land in Florida, you will need a boat to get to it.


Which part of the second post in this thread did you happen to miss or misunderstand?:angry:


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*Vacuum*



archer58 in pa said:


> Yes, that's correct. But if you follow the recommendations for using SL, they should never come in contact w/ anything other than human odor.
> I store my suits in a SL duffel and store that inside a closed rubbermaid chest.
> I dress away from my vehicle and when I'm done hunting put my siut back in the same containers.
> During the off season they're stored the same way but I add a plastic bag to put the duffel in.
> ...


You would have to hunt in a vacuum to avoid odors. Walk by something dead. With all due respect, this is bad science. 

He referred to chemical and organic when talking about adsorption and absorption. Two different bonds. Body odor contains both organic and chemical compounds.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

caseykey said:


> I got some swamp land in Florida, you will need a boat to get to it.


Whatever. Unless you have some sciece that says the Scentlock suits don't help mask human odor when used as they are designed you are simply bashing a product. Comparing them to military issue stuff in military scenarios has not convinced me to toss mine in the trash yet... but if that's what you need to do to justify hunting without it then have at it. As for your swampland... I live near the Chesapeake Bay, and there's plenty of whitetail, and sika filled public wetlands here.

:bartstush:​


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Will try and get you some answers.*



CLEANSHOT1000 said:


> You would have to hunt in a vacuum to avoid odors. Walk by something dead. With all due respect, this is bad science.
> 
> He referred to chemical and organic when talking about adsorption and absorption. Two different bonds. Body odor contains both organic and chemical compounds.


I am going to give your guestions that you asked earlier to the Phd and see what his responces would be from a scientific point of view and will try and post his answers for you.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Can we get some clarification*

I'm quoting from the new Scentlok site "Van der Waals interactions have a long range but are weak"

I was also provided the same statement from Scent Blocker and then provided it to one of the leading carbon experts in Europe for his analysis.

Here is his reply " Van de Waals forces are very SHORT range. If memory serves correctly they decay at the forth power ie at one molecular distance away it is only 1/16 th the power;at 2 molecular diameters it is reduced to 1/256 th of the strenght. If they were long range then solids and smooth surfaces would all behave like magnets-pulling molecules in from every where."

From what I can gather there is a fundemental disagreement on the explaination of the nature of Van de Waals and how it works. Can any one shed some light on this ?
This is one of the backbones of the Scentlok theory on reactivation.
?


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Where Are The Responces ?*

One little scientific fact are no responce ??? Look up the term to see who is correct.
The silence is telling !!! Maybe were all to tired ?


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

Van Der Waals - Here is a general run down of Van Der Waals in layman's terms. 

In theory all masses have an attraction force, for simple purposes imagine gravitational or magnetic properties. What Van Der Wall proposed was that the Ideal Gas Laws do not account for the volume adjustments in a "real" gas created by these intermolecular forces between particles. So, Van Der Wall generated his "Equation of State" to "theoretically" account for this volume change. However, this equation is really only relevant when a real gas goes through a significant pressure change. Basically, Van Der Wall replaced the specific volume of an ideal gas with an adjusted specific volume using a "correction factor". Unfortunately, this is not a reliable factor, as the factor itself is dependent on temperature. The outcome is that using Van Der Walls equation and his theory often results in serious errors. Van Der Walls equation is best applied to large and stable gas particles, something that a VOC is not. Van Der Walls forces are extremely weak, if they were not, then everything would be attracted to everything.

That is as layman's terms as I can really put it, and to a non-engineer or non-chemist, I could see that as still confusing ... which is the point. Throwing around terms such as Van Der Walls and others is a trick to baffle the consumer and nothing else.

In reality ... Van Der Walls has NOTHING to do with how the odors bond to the carbon molecules or how they are released from the carbon. It is simply a smoke and mirrors game and any real engineer/chemist/scientist will not hesitate to tell you so.


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## caseykey (Mar 15, 2007)

*The Science*



2005Ultramag said:


> Whatever. Unless you have some sciece that says the Scentlock suits don't help mask human odor when used as they are designed you are simply bashing a product. Comparing them to military issue stuff in military scenarios has not convinced me to toss mine in the trash yet... but if that's what you need to do to justify hunting without it then have at it. As for your swampland... I live near the Chesapeake Bay, and there's plenty of whitetail, and sika filled public wetlands here.
> 
> :bartstush:​


I guess I owe you an apology, I don't quiet know why, because I live in Florida and the whole place is a swamp and it is for sale. Trying to be funny aside,

The "weird science" is that they took Ethyl Methyl Amine and declared it a human odor. Please show me that somewhere in science.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

caseykey said:


> I guess I owe you an apology, I don't quiet know why, because I live in Florida and the whole place is a swamp and it is for sale. Trying to be funny aside,
> 
> The "weird science" is that they took Ethyl Methyl Amine and declared it a human odor. Please show me that somewhere in science.


Four posts...all slams on a manufacturer....might just wear out one's welcome rather quickly....if you get my drift.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

caseykey said:


> I guess I owe you an apology, I don't quiet know why, because I live in Florida and the whole place is a swamp and it is for sale. Trying to be funny aside,
> 
> The "weird science" is that they took Ethyl Methyl Amine and declared it a human odor. Please show me that somewhere in science.


I'll give you the same price for your swampland that I paid for my Scentlock stuff.

BTW... I'm quite familiar with Florida. My sister live in Melbourne, and I've been there quite a few times.


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## caseykey (Mar 15, 2007)

Recordkeeper said:


> Four posts...all slams on a manufacturer....might just wear out one's welcome rather quickly....if you get my drift.


Just looking for an answer to a simple question. Is Ethyl Methyl Amine secreted from the underarms? Is it foot odor? Part of bad breath? Legitimate questions I hope!!!


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

caseykey said:


> Just looking for an answer to a simple question. Is Ethyl Methyl Amine secreted from the underarms? Is it foot odor? Part of bad breath? Legitimate questions I hope!!!




I guess what RK is saying in your past posts, if you don't have anything positive to say or inquizative to ask them move on to another thread or find another forum to bother.

5 posts in and your not winning over the moderators, not a smart move my friend! :grin:


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

I think we all can agree that carbon can absorb odors. I even see where cat litter boxes have carbon in them to help absorb the smells.

So carbon does help and added it to our clothes is just another possible piece of the puzzle to help us see more deer even if the wind changes or is not in our favor on that particular hunt day.


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> I think we all can agree that carbon can absorb odors. I even see where cat litter boxes have carbon in them to help absorb the smells.
> 
> So carbon does help and added it to our clothes is just another possible piece of the puzzle to help us see more deer even if the wind changes or is not in our favor on that particular hunt day.


No one has ever argued carbon doesn't adsorb odors. It does and does so extremely well.

There are two areas of contention and they are simple.

1) Is there enough carbon in a suit to adequately control the odor from a person for any significant length of time. By significant, lets even say a single 4 hour hunt, but I believe and I could be wrong, that Scentloc claims the suit is good for something like 40 hours of use before it is required to be regenerated/reactivated/desorbed (you choose the term). I have my professional thoughts on this and I've posted it before.

2) Can a carbon suit be regenerated/reactivated/desorbed (again you choose the term) in a normal household dryer. Again, I have my professional thoughts on this and I've posted them before. I have the credentials to back up my thoughts on the topic as well.

The final area of contention that some have (myself included) is how they throw around scientific terms that have NO PLACE in their "science", such as Van Der Walls, in an effort to confuse the consumers.

Again ... NO ONE EVER SAID CARBON DOES NOT ADSORB ODORS ... it does so very very well.:smile:


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Be easy on Casey*



AdvanTimberLou said:


> I guess what RK is saying in your past posts, if you don't have anything positive to say or inquizative to ask them move on to another thread or find another forum to bother.
> 
> 5 posts in and your not winning over the moderators, not a smart move my friend! :grin:


I think whats bothering him is the choice of EMA whick has a boiling point of 96F 
when there are more relevant compounds to test. The choice of EMA is a no brainer.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

So they took the liberty to put a liner of carbon in clothes. They took it to a level no other company was doing and once so others followed suit. So where is the harm? Everyone seems to bring up that household dryer statement, does anyone know on high heat on a dryer, how hot that liner actually is?

Maybe experiment with that, put a jacket with Scent loc in the dryer for 20 minutes on max heat. Get a digital thermometer and at 20 minutes as quickly as you can take it out and take a temperature of that liner. Granted it may not be extremely hot but what is the temperature and can it effectively reactivated the particles in the jacket?


I give them credit for going in a new direction with clothing, it sure is a debate but regardless carbon does absorb odors so the suits should work, the debate is in the reactivation process, that is the hot issue.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Do you throw out the litter or reactivate it ?*



AdvanTimberLou said:


> I think we all can agree that carbon can absorb odors. I even see where cat litter boxes have carbon in them to help absorb the smells.
> 
> So carbon does help and added it to our clothes is just another possible piece of the puzzle to help us see more deer even if the wind changes or is not in our favor on that particular hunt day.


No one doubts that carbon absorbs odors. The rest of the world has to replace their filters or reactivate them and replace the lost carbon. Magically when you glue the carbon between two layers of fabric there is no loss which is contrary to all scientific evidence. The question is how is this possible ?( ie, ask Marvin)


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> So they took the liberty to put a liner of carbon in clothes. They took it to a level no other company was doing and once so others followed suit. So where is the harm? Everyone seems to bring up that household dryer statement, does anyone know on high heat on a dryer, how hot that liner actually is?
> 
> Maybe experiment with that, put a jacket with Scent loc in the dryer for 20 minutes on max heat. Get a digital thermometer and at 20 minutes as quickly as you can take it out and take a temperature of that liner. Granted it may not be extremely hot but what is the temperature and can it effectively reactivated the particles in the jacket?
> 
> ...


There are parts of this post that make me wonder wether your just simple or on the payroll.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

mnbob said:


> No one doubts that carbon absorbs odors. The rest of the world has to replace their filters or reactivate them and replace the lost carbon. Magically when you glue the carbon between two layers of fabric there is no loss which is contrary to all scientific evidence. The question is how is this possible ?( ie, ask Marvin)



how is the carbon actually lost? If its between two layers of clothing its going nowhere, its trapped between the layers. It does not disappear, it absorbs odors but is not lost in the process.

As for Marvin, I'll pass asking him, seen him in some other threads and he has some great debate on it but all I know, I wear it and don't focus on its ability or not, I focus on my hunt and enjoy being in the outdoors. If I thought about it on stand I would probably have a headache! :grin:


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Marvin said:


> There are parts of this post that make me wonder wether your just simple or on the payroll.


I wish I was Marvin, they are a Michigan company but I wear ScentBlocker, their competitor! :grin:

I wear it, I like it! 

What do you mean if I am simple?


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> how is the carbon actually lost? If its between two layers of clothing its going nowhere, its trapped between the layers. It does not disappear, it absorbs odors but is not lost in the process.
> 
> As for Marvin, I'll pass asking him, seen him in some other threads and he has some great debate on it but all I know, I wear it and don't focus on its ability or not, I focus on my hunt and enjoy being in the outdoors. If I thought about it on stand I would probably have a headache! :grin:


Lou, I could just delete my last post but think I'll just apologize to you instead. Have a good night my fellow bowhunter. :thumbs_up


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Marvin said:


> Lou, I could just delete my last post but think I'll just apologize to you instead. Have a good night my fellow bowhunter. :thumbs_up


Marvin, I have no ill feelings towards you, I actually like your comments and thoughts about this subject. What good would this place be if we didn't have disagreements and we all agreed on everything? It would be boring.

So no apology needed my friend, your an archer, so no matter what we disagree on I know your a fellow archer who I'd share a parcel of land to hunt on in an instant! Take care Marvin and you too have a good night!


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> Marvin, I have no ill feelings towards you, I actually like your comments and thoughts about this subject. What good would this place be if we didn't have disagreements and we all agreed on everything? It would be boring.
> 
> So no apology needed my friend, your an archer, so no matter what we disagree on I know your a fellow archer who I'd share a parcel of land to hunt on in an instant! Take care Marvin and you too have a good night!


Thanks lou! you too bud. :thumbs_up


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

mnbob said:


> I am going to give your guestions that you asked earlier to the Phd and see what his responces would be from a scientific point of view and will try and post his answers for you.


mnbob,
What's this guy a PhD in?
And I'm wondering where the PM is we spoke of earlier?

I think it is also necessary to question your side of the debate. Where is your scientific testing 
that show's SL does not work. Have you supplied a current fabric sample to the experts you speak of?
I think it only fair that the opposing science show it's results.


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## LarryM (Feb 4, 2005)

If a dryer can "reactivate" carbon, then by the same principle I should be able to put any old stinky work shirt in the dryer and have it come out stinkless too.....I am a bit skeptical.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

LarryM said:


> If a dryer can "reactivate" carbon, then by the same principle I should be able to put any old stinky work shirt in the dryer and have it come out stinkless too.....I am a bit skeptical.


Is your work shirt lined with carbon? :grin: If so try that experiment! :grin:


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> Is your work shirt lined with carbon? :grin: If so try that experiment! :grin:


I was thinking the same thing.


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## Jersey Ray (Apr 16, 2007)

*Scent-lok?*

I Can Personally say for me, Wont Hunt Without Them:Scent-Lok,Scent-Blocker,Silver-Ions,ETC.ETC.For the amount of time that I am in the woods I will use any advantageTo keep my scent away from that deers nose.Have I taken deer with the Bow and No carbon suit,yes I have but If you experienced the different,countless situations of several deer downwind 10yds. away at bait pile for a good hour or so,then walk right under you stand right where you walked in and stand there not knowing I am right above them you might think differently.I cant tell you how many times that happened last year alone.But thats my opinion,So if it works for you go for it and if it dosent dont. Yeah I know what they say about opinions Everybodys got one,But thats what AT is all about,Right? Thanks,KEEP ON HUNTIN!:wink:


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

archer58 in pa said:


> mnbob,
> What's this guy a PhD in?
> And I'm wondering where the PM is we spoke of earlier?
> 
> ...


In what forum with what kind of rules ?
If you need some information go to TR's website (trmichels.com)

Fabric sample - go to TR's website and explain to me when you look at SL's fabric how it stops odors where there is no carbon. We can use the same fabric in the discussion.

I believe you are a Scentlok dealer ?

Would you accept a Phd's explanation if it differed from yours?
If I supplied you with absolute proof would that change your mind?
If you had a boiling point higher than can be reached in a dryer what would happen to the carbon ? For example what is the boiling point for the odor from the glue(adhesive) used to hold the carbon and what effect does it have on the carbon ?
When we use filters what happens when something avoids the filter ? ie oil filter


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## douginpa (Jun 2, 2004)

I've used scent lock since 1996 and have no doubt about it's effectiveness.You still have to take every other scent precaustion and play the wind as much possible.The one thing I have to agree with is that the scent lock outerware is pretty much a waste of money.I've noticed that I get no more than 2 seasons out of a set of scent lock.It does work but it has to be relatively fresh.Buying all new cloths every two years seems insane to me.I only use the scent lock liners.That way I can still spend decent money for high quality outerware and expect to get many years out of them.Buying a cheap liner set every two years in no big deal.


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> Everyone seems to bring up that household dryer statement, does anyone know on high heat on a dryer, how hot that liner actually is?
> 
> Maybe experiment with that, put a jacket with Scent loc in the dryer for 20 minutes on max heat. Get a digital thermometer and at 20 minutes as quickly as you can take it out and take a temperature of that liner. Granted it may not be extremely hot but what is the temperature and can it effectively reactivated the particles in the jacket?


A typical household clothes dryer reaches a range of 140 deg. F to 160 deg. F. The temperature it will achieve is dependent on the model, how much clothing is loaded into it, etc. But for general purposes the maximum that any dryer will typically reach is around 160 deg. F. Your clothing therefore, would reach 160 deg. F or slightly less. In the best case in a laboratory, a small amount of regeneration can occur at temperatures as low as 250 deg. F ... 90 deg. F. HOTTER than a dryer can even get. A dryer simply doesn't get hot enough, no matter if you put your carbon jacket in there for 20 minutes, 45 minutes, or an entire day.

Again, lab results have proven that very limited regeneration/reactivation/desorption/stripping (you pick the term) can occur at 250 deg. F range, and I mean VERY LIMITED. Typically you will need temperatures in excess of 700 deg.F. and in doing so, you will not only destroy the suit, but you will have to replace some amount of fractured carbon as well, typically 15% to 20%.

Oh, and moisture is another key ingredient in regeneration/reactivation/desorption/stripping (again you pick the term). You must have moisture present to act as a carrier for the various "scent" molecules. Therefore, even if 160 deg. F. would work (which it won't), you could not simply throw a dry garment in the dryer and regenerate it. You would have to wash it first. Yet, they claim, just throw it in the dryer, even without washing first. But again, 160 deg. F. is not enough heat to even begin any type of regeneration process.

No new info in this post. Much of this has been shared by myself and others before here and on other forums. Science is science, not smoke and mirrors.


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## shooter31 (Apr 26, 2004)

Here's a question; when I wash my clothes in a detergent, it removes the dirt, grime, and scent particles. When I wash my scentlock clothes in a detergent (scent and UV free of course) would it not remove the scent as well? I understand it may not be purifying the carbon the way extreme temperature does in scientific applications, but isn't the detergent and water chemically breaking down and removing the scent (or at least a large portion of it) just like it does with the rest of my clothes?


----------



## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

mnbob said:


> In what forum with what kind of rules ?
> If you need some information go to TR's website (trmichels.com)
> 
> Fabric sample - go to TR's website and explain to me when you look at SL's fabric how it stops odors where there is no carbon. We can use the same fabric in the discussion.
> ...


The sample on T.R. M.'s website is questionable, to me at least. No one has questioned it. I would like to know how old it is. Back in the first years of SL the carbon DID come out while in the dryer. I had it in the lint screen.
The process of lamination has evolved greatly w/ the Clima Flex fabric and the advanced lamination process. It does not happen any longer.

I would accept a PhD's TEST results if a fabric sample was tested. You speak of boiling point...who's boiling the carbon? I feel this is irrelivant. We're not talking about the same application.

Absolute Proof...My proof is in the field. But I'd listen to what anypne has to say.

Avoiding Filters? I don't understand the question.

Oh I forgot. I am a SL dealer, just like I sell Martin , bear, darton, Diamond bows, Trophy Ridge, Easton ,etc. , etc.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

I guess what I would like to see on here as well as others would want is to explain the dryer issue.

Seeing that a Scent Loc representative came on here to start this thread, can they explain the dryer issue. Some in this thread are saying a household dryer does not get hot enough to reactivate carbon and every consumer that buys a Scent Loc suit will have just a typical household dryer to use

_*Can Scent Loc please explain if a household dryer can work with the temperatures they are able to heat too, which some are saying is 140 to 160 deg. F, can if effectively reactivate the carbon inside of your jackets?*_


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

archer58 in pa said:


> You speak of boiling point...who's boiling the carbon? I feel this is irrelivant. We're not talking about the same application.


The boiling point is relevant. It is not the boiling point of carbon, that is silly in concept. What is being talked about is the "boiling point" of the particular "scent" molecules. More accurately, the vapor pressure of these compounds. This is the point at which these compounds will re-vaporize given the right temperature and pressure conditions. A lower vapor pressure, the easier it is to re-vaporize a particular compound.


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

shooter31 said:


> Here's a question; when I wash my clothes in a detergent, it removes the dirt, grime, and scent particles. When I wash my scentlock clothes in a detergent (scent and UV free of course) would it not remove the scent as well? I understand it may not be purifying the carbon the way extreme temperature does in scientific applications, but isn't the detergent and water chemically breaking down and removing the scent (or at least a large portion of it) just like it does with the rest of my clothes?


Carbon by nature traps compounds. It does this through the porous surface structure. There is only so much surface area for adsorption and when it is full it is full. Water and soap can not break this bond. Only the actual regeneration process at high temperatures can break the bond.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*answers to Archer 58*

1. Boiling point refers to the compound in the carbon. That is the temperature needed (required is more scientific) to get it out. (ie EMA boiling point is 96.6F any wonder why it was choosen ?
3. avoiding filters. Example - unless water goes through a filter no contaminents will be removed. - same principle is unless the odors come in contact with the carbon nothing happens to them ie what about the open areas in the fabric
3. Fabric was purchased last fall from a store.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Forget the DRYER*



AdvanTimberLou said:


> I guess what I would like to see on here as well as others would want is to explain the dryer issue.
> 
> Seeing that a Scent Loc representative came on here to start this thread, can they explain the dryer issue. Some in this thread are saying a household dryer does not get hot enough to reactivate carbon and every consumer that buys a Scent Loc suit will have just a typical household dryer to use
> 
> _*Can Scent Loc please explain if a household dryer can work with the temperatures they are able to heat too, which some are saying is 140 to 160 deg. F, can if effectively reactivate the carbon inside of your jackets?*_


The dryer is not the problem. I'm not trying to be an expert there are many others that could do that . I'm trying to share what I have learned by asking questions to those who deal with carbon. If you have a compound attached to carbon there is a specific temperature required to get it to release. There also has to be a medium(in the carbon industry that is usually steam) to carry the compound away from the carbon. Just by going to google you can find the boiling points of representatives of human odor and see for youself what temperatures are needed and don't have to accept my answers of those who manufactuer carbon clothing.

I often wonder why the other manufactuers of carbon clothing never share any of their testing on their products?????


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

People keep saying though a dryer does not get hot enough to reactivate it after use.

I just want a Scent Loc representative to clarify this issue and if indeed a household dryer gets hot enough to work on their product.

I want to hear this from them on here seeing that THEY did start the thread. Just want to see them get on here more and address some of these concerns people have.


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*Won't Happen*



AdvanTimberLou said:


> People keep saying though a dryer does not get hot enough to reactivate it after use.
> 
> I just want a Scent Loc representative to clarify this issue and if indeed a household dryer gets hot enough to work on their product.
> 
> I want to hear this from them on here seeing that THEY did start the thread. Just want to see them get on here more and address some of these concerns people have.


They will not answer on here. They contacted me and will not post responses on the thread because, and I quote, "Because of the hostile nature of the questioning". You have to call them or have them email you direct the answers to your questions. But you better not post there response to you. 

I to am frustrated that this good site and forum space was used by them for there side, but will not answer questions on the thread. But they did pay for a banner ad. That alone says a whole lot about a company. 

Some folks are extremely careful of what they say (legality), so it takes them a while to get back to you on a straight forward, simple question, that they should have an immediate, definate answer to since they are the experts.

I must confess, I bought the first carbon suit Scent Blocker ever came out with, I think about 10 yrs ago. Not Scent Lok but Scent Blocker. I felt violated after using it. I tried and tried to call them to send it back, sent a letter, no response. And it was a lot of $ then. You can bet it had a heck of a lot more carbon than these suits do now. It had a lining with voids under the fabric that was loaded with carbon. And it was terrible. I still have it if someone want it for a museum or something. Pay the shipping and it is yours. I am not kidding. 

So I have owned and used one.


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## Dave Nowlin (May 21, 2003)

There is a problem that usually doesn't get mentioned in these discussions. Let's say for the purpose of arguement that a dryer gets hot enough to properly regenerate the garments. There is another problem that isn't usually mentioned. The air drawn into the dryer comes right out of your house. It is ladden with all kinds of odors. There are cooking odors, odors from various household chemicals, human odor, and the list can go on and on. The air we are passing through the dryer to regenerate these clothes is contaminated with tell tale odors of the worst kind. In fact these odors are more of a problem than the fabric sheets. Some suggest throwing in some baking soda to help remove odors. The baking soda becomes a very fine powder during the heating and tumbling which is taking place. Can we say with certainty that the baking soda once fully loaded with scent doesn't actually become a part of the problem? I've seen folks spray the outside of carbon clothing with scent killer in areas around their boots. This may actually hurt the effectiveness of the carbon clothing as it will use up part of it's capacity trying to catch the scent eleminator. In fact once it is regenerated it immediately tries to go back to absorbing odors. It must be very carefully sealed in an air tight container. To be most effective you should get a good distance away from you vehicle before putting it on to avoid using up much of it's capacity absorbing the fumes created by our vehicle. What about the guy who gets fully decked out in his carbon clothing and then rides a 4- wheeler for a half hour or so before dismounting and going the rest of the way on foot? What's the chance that due to the high velocity air pressing against the surface of his garment plus the fumes from the 4-wheeler that the garment has already been rendered useless because it has already trapped all the odor molecules it can hold before the hunter ever reaches his stand? The circumstances I have posed are real world hunting conditions for many people. Few will use these garments in a way which helps them to work better. Ideally you should get dressed in the woods at least 100 yards away from your vehicle and proceed to your hunting spot from there on foot with out further exposure to any telltale odors. Then comes the worst offender. How many cubic feet per hour of breath do you exhale? Do you realize that your breath is probably the greatest cause of your odor being left in the woods? Have you heard of VaporShield? It is a lozenge which dissolves in your mouth and it's primary active ingredient is, yep you guessed it, activated carbon.
This deer season I plan on taking trips with my Scent Lock & trips where I simply practice good hygeine and use VaporShield. I want to compare the results in the woods with real deer. Of course the best of both worlds would be to use both together. If I did that how would I know which of the two produts helped the most?
Dave Nowlin


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Why not just do both, and reap whatever benefits, small or otherwise, as it may just help enough to make a difference when Mr. Big walks in...


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## ghost1 (Mar 1, 2007)

If they made Boxers my wife would make me ware them all the time  
I look at it like this IT CANT HURT so why not ware it


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## TRMichels (Sep 26, 2006)

Hey Moderators;


Am I allowed to post/respond on this thread? 

T.R.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Try Contain*



ghost1 said:


> If they made Boxers my wife would make me ware them all the time
> I look at it like this IT CANT HURT so why not ware it


They make a boxer that would make your wife happy ???!!!


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Scentlok Design*

Saw that you looked at the thread at 1:20 today. Why don't you supply some answers if your going to check out the responces. Answer AdvanttimberLou's question about the dryer. Did you really think you could fool the hunting public with the choice of EMA (which has a boiling point of 98.06) to represent human odor ?????????????????


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## eltigre (Apr 28, 2007)

*Are somebodies pants on fire??*



caseykey said:


> Ethyl Methyl Amine , Boiling point approximately 150 degrees. Is that a coincidence or did they pick a chemical that would boil at dryer temperature and come off carbon. Though they say humans produce 350 different chemicals in their ads, they pick ethyl methly amine to prove their point. It is not a human odor. Why are they doing that? Do the same experiment with hexanol or methanol or ketone ,methylmercaptan ,hydrogen sulfide,2-hydroxypropanoic acid, isovaleric acid , real human odors and see what results you get. Then they can make their "reactivate like new", "desorb","regenerate" "partially reactivate" claims.



ETHYL METHYL AMINE IS NOT A HUMAN ODOR NO WAY NO HOW!!!


[FONT="Arial Black" Great post Casey. I looked up just one human odor from the list of 350 they say there are, and guess what 3-methylindole has a boiling point of 509 degrees? QUESTION??? Will a Scent Lok suit catch fire at 509 Degrees??[/FONT]


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

mnbob said:


> Saw that you looked at the thread at 1:20 today. Why don't you supply some answers if your going to check out the responces. Answer AdvanttimberLou's question about the dryer. Did you really think you could fool the hunting public with the choice of EMA (which has a boiling point of 98.06) to represent human odor ?????????????????



I have tried to defend them on here, what gets me and others too probably is they started the thread yet won't answer questions.

I mention the dryer as that is how they suggest you reactivate it. Then I hear guys saying a household dryer does not get hot enough. I just wanted an answer but as one gentlemen posted on this thread they do not like the hostile nature of the questioning.

I do not see where my question is hostile and if it is sorry but I asked a pretty simple question.

Face it, they started the thread in hopes of winning over the nay sayers, now is the time to answer them and the ones that wear the product!!


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*yes*



AdvanTimberLou said:


> I have tried to defend them on here, what gets me and others too probably is they started the thread yet won't answer questions.
> 
> I mention the dryer as that is how they suggest you reactivate it. Then I hear guys saying a household dryer does not get hot enough. I just wanted an answer but as one gentlemen posted on this thread they do not like the hostile nature of the questioning.
> 
> ...


What you just said. Hallelujah! You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. The truth...............it always matters.


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## Archeryman101 (Aug 20, 2006)

They sure are on here a lot since they became a sponsor of this site. Funny how the administrators really protect them too! Laughing matter on my end though!


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## eltigre (Apr 28, 2007)

CLEANSHOT1000 said:


> What you just said. Hallelujah! You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. The truth...............it always matters.[/QUOTE
> 
> "Truth is that concordance of an abstract statement with the ideal limit towards which endless investigation would tend to bring scientific belief, which concordance the abstract statement may possess by virtue of the confession of its inaccuracy and one-sidedness, and this confession is an essential ingredient of truth
> 
> Jesus, claimed to be "Truth" when he said, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through me." In Christian Science, Truth is God.


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Need Help*

I have enjoyed each and everyone of you in these discussions. The time has come for me to have to make a major decision that will affect my life and will have an affect on all big game hunters in one way or another,
I would ask for your prayers or good thoughts as I make this decision. I have to make sure of my motives and make sure that I will have the courage to follow through.
Thanks in advance for always helping when you can. That is always one thing that is there in the AT family.


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## DUCK29 (Feb 13, 2006)

I asked 3 basic questions the day s.l. posted this thread (see page one).

I still havent seen one of them answered. I guess that right there answers them for me.:zip:


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## mnbob (Sep 26, 2006)

*Answers to Questions*



DUCK29 said:


> Will putting it in my normal household dryer empty it from all contaminants and odors and restore it back to its virgin or new state?
> 
> How many times can it be"reactivated" to its virgin or new state before it becomes unable to perform as it did when it was new?
> 
> ...


If they won't answer let me try.
Question 1 - The only things that can be removed are those whose boiling points are under the temperature that your dryer can reach and there needs to be a medium (ie usually steam in reactivation) to carry them away.
Question 2 - If everything worked as claimed (I don't accept their claims) according to many reports on reactivation that I have found it would last about 10 due to the loss of carbon that is not being replaced. ( Will never return to new according to Scientific information concerning reactivation )
Question 3 - The REAL minimum temperature relates to the boiling point of the particular contaniment or odor your trying to remove.There are more factors involved but if the temperature required is higher than your dryer can reach than it will remain in the carbon.


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## eltigre (Apr 28, 2007)

Mnbob, I sense that you are getting ready to do something big!!! I hope that you the best. One would have to wonder what a cross examination might go if someone got to ask the people at Scent Lok the right questions.

Do you claim that you can control 100% of the scent 100% of the time? Then how come the dogs found the person in your garment in 13 seconds? 
Do deer have a bigger olfactory than a dog?

I wish it was my case!!!
They do?
Then why can't a deer smell you if a dog can?


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

*deer*

_"Do deer have a bigger olfactory than a dog?"_

That is a ....yes.

The thing is, even if you can get the scent from human odor out of the garment. What about odors that have a higher boiling point? 

I'd guess they would remain, eventually 100% of the carbon would be used up.

I don't know for sure, just speculating.

And yes, I have some scent-lok from 7 years ago.

But no, I don't use it any longer.


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

*adsorption not absorption*

You would think the guys defending this product would at least know what process their talking about.

Most call it absorption. . :embara:


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## TRMichels (Sep 26, 2006)

*Activated Carbon Facts*

Well, 

I have asked the Mods if I could post here: No response. 

I have PM'd the mods to see if if I could post here: No Response. 

I guess either it is okay, or they are looking for some excuse to permanently ban me. 



So - If I cannot post on this subject, please inform me, tell me why I'm not allowed to post, and ask me not to do it. And I won't. I'm not mentioning any brand names. 

Here goes: 

All of the information I have gotten from a Ph D, who actually works for a company that manufactures activated carbon, says that the little amount of carbon in most of the suits out there is not enough to eliminate 100% of the human perspiration odors given off by any hunter within the first 10 minutes of wearing the suit; because, if you look at the layer of cabon in the suits, it does not cover the entire area of the fabric. About 60% of the odors can escape ifrom some of those suits. You will be smelled by game animals!!! 

Now realize, this Ph D works for a company that manufactures activated carbon for use in clothing. He gains nothing by saying that many of the claims of scent control companies are false, misleading etc. In fact he may be losing future sales to those companies. The only thing he gains is self-respect - for telling the truth. He says that if a hunter wants activated carbon suits to be effective on a regular basis, the hunter needs to buy disposable suits, because they cannot be reacitivated to the point where they will reduce even "most" of the odors a human produces, for more than one or two times of using then for 4-6 hours on a hunt. Use it 12 hours, then buy a new disposable suit!!! 

*Hey - there is an idea, built in obsolence, meaning INFORM the buyer the suits are only good for about 40 yours of use, and then they would hve to buy a new suit. Which measn the manufacturer could sell more suits, possibly at a lower price, and make more money in the long run. *

NOW that sounds like American capitalism at its (finest???)


And, because activated carbon does not "attract" (as in magnetic attraction or "suck in odors" due to some un-named process), any odors inside the suit, that can exit the suit, without coming into physical contact with the activated carbon (which most of the odors can do, because of the numerous areas of the suits that are not COMPLETELY covered by carbon), will go around the carbon, exit the suit, and alarm game animals. 

This has been proven in the undisputed facts of Shivik's dog study. And deer have about the same if not more ofactroy receptors in the nose than dogs, so they probably can smell at least as well as, if not better than, dogs. 

The whole human perspiration odor "regeneration" (to 90% or whatever) thing is a smoke screen. According to th Ph D, activated carbon is not slective in what it holds on to, meaning that every odor that physically comes in contact with the minute amount of carbon in one of these suits will be stuck to the surface of the carbon - as long as there is room for it. 

And, therein lies the problem. Due to the minute amount of carbon in these suits, it is very likely that the minute surface area of the carbon can be filled up with odors, scents, vapors, molecules or whatever you want to call then, from perspiration, smoke, gasoline, household odors, odors of leaves, dirt, decomposing animals, plants, etc, (as in any odor that is in the air anywhere you wear the suit), and it will probably fill up within the first few hours that you wear it. 

So, after 1-2 hours, the suit no longer works to contain, stop or reduce human perspiration odors (no matter which of the several compounds that make up human odors you are talking about), because it is filled up with odors, from any source. 

As to "regeneration". The Ph D tells me that he does not know of any activated carbon that can be reactivated to 90%, because some of the carbon itself is lost in reactivation, and some of the odors will not be "dislodged" from the carbon, becasue the molecules are just too long and complex to be dislodged at temperatures below 200 degrees, AND there is not a household dryer out there that gets hotter than 200 degrees, because it is not safe. 

He alos states that dislodging of any odor, compound etc, on the surface of activated carbon is achieved when the "boiling point" of that odor or compound is reached (from what I understand) in a "steam-enviroment", as in wet clothing in a household dryer. Now - many odors (incuding some of the compounds in human perspiration) have boiling points above 200 degrees, which means your dryer has to be hotter than 200 degrees to reacivated most of the compounds on the carbon. Is yours that hot??? 

The Ph D states that the 90% regeneration is high, and it is deception, misdirection, smoke and mirrors, because this probaly only applies to SOME of the compounds of human perspiration (have you ever seen any suit manufacuter talk about ALL of the OTHER odors the carbon comes in contact with when a hunter wears it?????) . Regeneration is more likely in the range of 70-80%. 

And, here is the big thing, the regeneration factor (of say 80%) is the factor of the "original adsorbtion capability", meanign the first time you put it in the dryer. So, only 80 percent of the cabon is reactivated, and now you only have 80 percent left to capture odors. The next time you throw your suit in the dryer, you can only regenerate 80% of the 80% capacity left; which is 64percent. And the second time you use it - it fills up with odors faster than it did the first time, because it has less capacity. 

The next time you put it in the dryer it will only reactivate to 51 percent, and now only 50 percent of your odors could (possibly) be trapped. The next time you put it in the dryer it is down to 40%, then 32%, then 25% and by about the 8th-10th time you put it in the dryer, it is useless. 

But, if you don't put it in the dryer after every 4 -6 hours of use, it is useless anyhow, because it is full of all kinds of odors. And the deer will smell you if you use it before reactivating it. 

So, you have to reactivate it. But, each time you reactivate it - it is less effective, and by the 10th time you reactivate or use it, it is worthless, and you have to buy another $300 suit. 

Now I don't know about you guys, but I often hunt 4-8 hours a day, 2-3 days in a row, 2-4 weeks a month, which means I would have to buy a new $300 suit every two weeks - I certainly can't afford it. 



OHHHH ...

For those of you who are wearing activated carbon suits or clothing - that is over 4 months old, or has been through the dryer 8 times- if you are still having good success with it - *it is not because of the activated carbon*, because the activated carbon has long since ceased to capture, eliminate, reduce or lock in ANY odors that you give off. 

Give yourself some credit. Your success is not due to the activated carbon in the clothing - it is because you are good hunters, you understand how the animals detect you by sight, sound and SCENT, and you take precautions to aviod being detected. 

Either that or you are just plain lucky; or you are hunting deaf, blind and physically challenged, or just plain stuipd animals, or those that are completely accustomed to human activity in their area and just don't care.

Heck even I can kill urban deer, even if patterning deer doesn't work, and the idea of "patterning" is just a stupid concept. 


I'd be glad to see any intelligent, honest response to this post, by anyone, whether involved in the manufacture fo activated carbon clothing or not. 

I'm not here to tell lies, I am here to tell the truth of the matter, no matter who is involved, because I owe the truth to the hunting community. I've always tried to tell the truth, even if it costs me friends, lack of article sales, and lack of income. 

God and truth come before money (with me). 

May Yahweh-God bless all of you, 

T.R.


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## TRMichels (Sep 26, 2006)

Here is another thought:

Normally, when a researcher or company makes what they consider an "earth-shaking" discovery, which in this case is activated carbon in extremely small amounts has the abbility to reduce odors, (including human perspiration odors, and drugs and explosives so drug/explosive sniffing dogs or technical instruments could not detect illegal drugs and explosives coming into the US), they have their "scientific findings" reviewed by some scientific panel, journal or others, for what is referred to as "peer review".

Since the use of activated carbon to reduce odors seems to fit into the category of "significantly important" I wonder where the "peer review" papers are supporting the companies who are making these fantastic claims. 

If peer review papers, by qualified scientists, are out there, would the companies making these claims, and presenting their "scientific" papers as sound scientific fact, PLEASE post citations or links to those peer reviews???

Or, are there any (positive/supporting) peer reviewed conclusions out there on this subject???

If not, why are there no supporting papers???


OHHH ... OHHH ... OHHH

If activated carbon does work to eliminate or reduce drug and explosive odors, I'd think that the activated carbon fabric companies could (possibly) make a killing on selling bolts or yards of their products.


I sincerely look forward to hearing from those companies, here, in a public forum, for all read and take part in, here on Archery Talk. 

May Yahweh bless all of you, 

T.R.


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## TRUCarbon (Apr 4, 2007)

*skeptical*

I am of the opinion that carbon can't be "reactivated" in a home dryer and that you're losing carbon everytime you wash or dry your suit. I believe carbon is disposable and the only way to recharge carbon is to wash out the old used up carbon and apply new AC. 

Brian Schroeder
Pro Staff
Natural Predator


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## LarryM (Feb 4, 2005)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> Is your work shirt lined with carbon? :grin: If so try that experiment! :grin:


What difference does that make? If the dryer is hot enough to "outgas" the stink from the carbon, it should get it off cotton as well. The energy well from the high surface area of the carbon should be a lot harder to overcome than cotton.


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## CLEANSHOT1000 (Jan 25, 2007)

*Got a Phone Call*

Mike Andrews called my cell today and we spoke for a while. Needless to say I was surprised to get the call. Although I have not been converted to a believer, he is passionate about the business.

He advised he had been gone for a couple of weeks and was checking/reading the thread and posts. Nice, respectful guy. He is not a scientist as he said to me, but has quite a bit of knowledge about this topic. 

It was interesting. I did appreciate the call.


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## meyerske (Dec 26, 2004)

DEC said:


> A typical household clothes dryer reaches a range of 140 deg. F to 160 deg. F. The temperature it will achieve is dependent on the model, how much clothing is loaded into it, etc. But for general purposes the maximum that any dryer will typically reach is around 160 deg. F. Your clothing therefore, would reach 160 deg. F or slightly less. In the best case in a laboratory, a small amount of regeneration can occur at temperatures as low as 250 deg. F ... 90 deg. F. HOTTER than a dryer can even get. A dryer simply doesn't get hot enough, no matter if you put your carbon jacket in there for 20 minutes, 45 minutes, or an entire day.
> 
> Again, lab results have proven that very limited regeneration/reactivation/desorption/stripping (you pick the term) can occur at 250 deg. F range, and I mean VERY LIMITED. Typically you will need temperatures in excess of 700 deg.F. and in doing so, you will not only destroy the suit, but you will have to replace some amount of fractured carbon as well, typically 15% to 20%.
> 
> ...


You keep referring to mystery data. Throwing out numbers without details to back them up has no credibility whatsoever. Saying things like "in a laboratory" or "lab results have proven", is supposed to make an impression on readers??? Let's have the details of your test and when/when it occurred.

"A small amount of regeneration can occur at 250F"...based on what? Scent-Lok's presentation shows differently. Specifically what test are you involved with that refutes their data? Again, please be specific.

My experience with carbon clothing over the past 14 or 15 years has convinced me beyond any doubt that this type of clothing has value for the hunter. I think there are two issues which cause some people to think otherwise after they use it:

- They don't use it properly. For example, they don't use a headnet and then they wonder why they were scented. Or they use "fragrance-free" soap (fragrance-free and scent-free are not the same). Or they wear their rubber hunting boots in the garage before they hunt. Or they dry off with a towel that was laundered with regular detergent and a nice Bounce sheet in the dryer. The list goes on. Scent-Lok has done a pretty good job trying to explain this, but some people think the carbon suits should be a panacea for all of their scent control problems and it is not meant to be that. The Bottom line is the users have to be educated on the use of carbon suits. The less scent you have on your person, the better job carbon can do. Some folks just don't want to make that trip. They want scent control to be easy.

- Users are not aware of how long their suit will really be effective. I know a hunter who washes his carbon suit probably 15 times in a season and he's had it five years. He most definitely now has a nice set of carbon-free camo. But he thinks it should still be working. I cringe every time I have to wash a carbon suit because I know that its effectiveness is being reduced some amount. Scent-Lok needs to develop a way to let the user know when their carbon suit is no longer effective. Maybe it could be a tag with a dye that loses color with washings at a similar rate as carbon loses its effectiveness. For several years Scent Blocker suits had removable liners, so you never had to wash them if you didn't need to. They have since done away with that nice feature. *DON"T BUY USED CARBON SUITS *, since you don't know what you are getting with them. The previous owner may have washed them to death. 

My two cents...


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

> For example, they don't use a headnet and then they wonder why they were scented


Headnet, for what? Bugs?

Those head covers don't have much AC in them, and as a result will get full up / maxed out in short order. Might even be full to capacity when you first purchase them or shortly after. 

Combine the very short effective lifespan of a head covering with the fact that a hunter is constantly expelling scent through normal breathing, and the only reasonable conclusion that any logical individual could make is:

*You can't control head odor!* 

The only way to hunt scent free is to get inside with the bubble boy.


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Wow*

I can't believe this thread is still alive! I even see some of the guys defending this technology on this and other posts have had some change of heart?

All Scientific Evidence seems to say it doesn't work. 

Common sense leeds one to believe there are no magic cloaks of "Unstinkiness"! 

My experience with NBC (CHEM SUITS) for 25 years in the Military says...they are like Bic lighters...use and throw away....only we used them once!

Why can't we agree that if people want to spend hundreds of dollars on something that is....at best a confidence builder, let them spend the money and press on. Each time I read these threads someone else is fighting each other and this site is suppossed to be about making friends?

O.K. I'll shut up....Now don't blackball me...I've been nice!


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## meyerske (Dec 26, 2004)

skyhunter said:


> Headnet, for what? Bugs?
> 
> Those head covers don't have much AC in them, and as a result will get full up / maxed out in short order. Might even be full to capacity when you first purchase them or shortly after.
> 
> ...


"...don't have much in them...", "...might even be full...", "...shortly thereafter...", "...very short lifespan...". 

You are presenting nothing but an opinion substantiated by no data, no facts, and words that don't commit to anything. If you have irrefutable proof, great. Let's hear it.

The words "short", "shortly", "much", "very" and "might" are not data.

I do think that for the average Joe Hunter who is not committed to an effective scent control plan, a carbon suit is probably a waste of money. For those who want to go the extra mile and practice effective scent control, I consider the carbon suit another piece of the puzzle to becoming as scent-free as possible.

As for controlling head odor, the first "headnet" layer for me is a Contain head cover. This is an antimicrobial layer. Then I use a carbon layer. I do agree that you should "desorb" your head cover frequently.


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

> As for controlling head odor, the first "headnet" layer for me is a Contain head cover. This is an antimicrobial layer. Then I use a carbon layer. I do agree that you should "desorb" your head cover frequently.


Yea if desorption was even possible, maybe you could change headcovers every 5 minutes or so; and carry like 50 with you. I see you believe in many of these so called, "scent control products", that have been effectively marketed to the general public. IMO, none of those other things you mentioned can effectively control head odor either. Not possible!

Your head is an constant exhaust pipe which cannot be contained. Your antimicrobial layer has been another gimmick said to stop the process of bacteria forming and multiplying on the skin. Yea, "Contain" was one of the first companies to come out with this in the mid to late 1990's, and they effectively marketed this hoax. They had cotton T-shirts and bottoms that they said " had a deodorant permanently bonded to the fabric, that would last for the lifetime of the garment, and stop the process of bacteria multiplication". *Please!*; Cotton T's with deodorant permanently built in that will stop bacteria multiplication. All in a little T-shirt; how convenient. Almost too good to be true?

One would have to be very gullible to believe that one. Any reasonable human being knows that this is not possible (at least not with animals) and that bacteria will indeed multiply by the gazillions no matter what "magical layer" is lying next to the skin. They even had Contain socks. Yea, now we're gonna stop foot odor too. Oh how gullible hunters seeking the "no scent dream" can be. Where are the garments that will stop my crotch and ass odor. I would pay top dollar for those. . .:wink: Where are they? Of course, they don't exist; never will!

Next; your carbon head cover layer is paper thin and will be "full" quickly. Better buy a pile of new ones sealed in plastic during the manufacturing process (which they are not), and change often. You would think that these guys would at least "seal" these things during manufacturing; but they don't. All of the garments (tops, bottoms, head covers) are getting filled up before you even take one off the rack or warehouse shelf. They even put this carbon in boots; have fun "desorbing" that one!. .  

As for your "desorb" thing? . . sorry charlie, ain't happening! You guys have had years to prove this, and so far your employed / non independent bunch of so called " lab coat guys" have yet to prove anything. In that video, one of the "lab coat guys" shockingly said "that 100% desorption occurs". I can't even believe that this "bit" was allowed in the video. If your gonna stretch the truth, why not make it something that is even somewhat believable.

Your bunch will never prove that any significant desorption occurs. How many years has it been? Case closed, and has been for some time.

Like I have said; does AC adsorb odor? Yes, but for how long? Combine that with the fact that human odor cannot be effectively eliminated to a significant extent, due to uncontainable head odors, and you are right back where you started.

Gotta jump in with the "bubble boy", for it to really make a difference.


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## meyerske (Dec 26, 2004)

skyhunter,

As the saying goes, you are entitled to your opinion. I respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree with it.

I buy the fact that you don't believe that activated carbon works...since you can't personally directly tell with your senses if it works. But your comment on anti-microbials is something that can easily be disproven with our own human nose. It is safe to say that you haven't tried anti-microbials with any credible test.

You owe it to yourself to try, at the very least, an antimicrobial material, be it Contain or whatever. It is truly amazing stuff. Used in combination with activated carbon, it goes a long way in making us less detectable to game.

Our opinions have been voiced here. 'Nuff said.

Good hunting, 

Meyerske


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## Darrel (Nov 9, 2004)

With all this have-to-have, new, and improved material that is on the market today, It makes you wonder how we ever killed deer 25 years ago. Jeans and shirt or BDUs just aren't good enough anymore:wink: 

Darrel


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

this is grap


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## meyerske (Dec 26, 2004)

Darrel said:


> With all this have-to-have, new, and improved material that is on the market today, It makes you wonder how we ever killed deer 25 years ago. Jeans and shirt or BDUs just aren't good enough anymore:wink:
> 
> Darrel


We just didn't kill as many big ones.
:wink: 

What does "grap" mean??


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## skyhunter (Dec 1, 2003)

meyerske said:


> I buy the fact that you don't believe that activated carbon works since you can't personally directly tell with your senses if it works..


If you read what I said, you would have seen this statement.


skyhunter said:


> Like I have said; does AC adsorb odor? Yes, but for how long?


.It appears that you did not comprehend what I said.


> But your comment on anti-microbials is something that can easily be disproven with our own human nose.


Really, human noses can prove antimicrobials work? I can just see that comercial of a guy sniffing a pair of drawers and saying " see, can't smell a thing". That would sell me in a second.


> It is safe to say that you haven't tried anti-microbials with any credible test.


 Again you are mistaken; I was one of the first to try it. As far as a "credible test"; I hunted in it for a couple of seasons. Did the whole no scent bit from shower to stand. My pits, crotch, and ass still reeked before long. How could they not? A guy can't suddenly become a non human animal. That scent will always come out no matter what lies next to the skin.


> You owe it to yourself to try, at the very least, an antimicrobial material, be it Contain or whatever. It is truly amazing stuff. Used in combination with activated carbon, it goes a long way in making us less detectable to game.


Nothing amazing here. How do you come up with these conclusions on what I have or have not tried. The reason I know the history of the Contain garments is because I foolishly bought them when they first appeared in the mid to late 1990's. A shirt with built in deodorant? How could anyone believe that. Yea I foolishly did at first; but never again. I also bought and tried Scentlok. Again a mistake since some odors are uncontainable.

You say "amazing stuff"? Hardly! What is amazing is how some guys think they know what others have or have not tried. A guy could have either a pro or a con viewpoint on a product, and those views on these so called "scent elimination products" could be based on real life experiences, past gullible reactions to advertising, and an evolved viewpoint on the impossibility of scent elimination.

Just trying to share some knowledge here and save some guys some dough. If another wants to play " Mr you are invisible, you are the dominant predator"; then knock yourself out. I've been there, played that.

It's all good, as long as your out there hunting.


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

meyerske said:


> You keep referring to mystery data. Throwing out numbers without details to back them up has no credibility whatsoever. Saying things like "in a laboratory" or "lab results have proven", is supposed to make an impression on readers??? Let's have the details of your test and when/when it occurred.
> 
> "A small amount of regeneration can occur at 250F"...based on what? Scent-Lok's presentation shows differently. Specifically what test are you involved with that refutes their data? Again, please be specific.


meyerske, with all due respect. Run a search on myself and this topic on AT for the past year. I have sited several studies, provided data, and various other information. I worked for over 12 years in the carbon industry as an engineer and consultant. I am a licensed PE who still works in environmental applications that involve various scrubbing of chemical compounds. I have reams of data on carbon, adsorption, regeneration/reactivation in my very office. I really don't need to sight web sites, as I have enough resources in house to make my own engineering evaluations on the subject. I have read every single last web site reported study that all of you have access to through the power of Google and links that have been reported on here over the past couple years. Some I agree with, some I don't, some are partially correct. Unlike many that post on this topic here and other places, I'm not an internet wanna be engineer. I'm a real engineer with a real back ground in this process and very qualified to speak on this topic.

I've ran the numbers, I've reviewed the data, I've spoken to many of the "experts". I know enough that my money will never go to a suit that has carbon in it that claims it can be regenerated/reactivated/desorbed in a home dryer. Fine if you or anyone else wants to spend your money to do so. I and a few others are just sharing the FACTS with you so that you can make an informed purchase.


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