# Crossbow seesun for all in MI



## hunlee (Jan 9, 2009)

:angry:Hunlee has just heard that anyone can hunt in Michigan 12 year and older in any seesun with a crossbow:angry:This pisses Hunlee off:angry:There was a time when the old or handicapped were the only people to hunt with crossbow and they had to go see a doctor to get the written slip stateing they were unable to draw and hunt with a bow but that has changed!!!!!!!!!Michigan law makers are steeling the archery seesun away from us!!!!!!!This law change will draw every round head and shemp into the hunting field!!!!!!!!Hunlee is A-OK with letting them hunt with a cross bow during the firearm seesun butt not during the archery seesunWhat do youall think bout this???????Hunlee think this is total BS:angry:

hunlee


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## sbooy42 (Jan 2, 2007)

sucks
but what the hell ya gonna do??


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## waylonb19 (Aug 17, 2005)

Not from Michigan but I don't think its right either. I realize maybe crossbows will bring in new hunters to the sport but I am with you on this. They should be for people with disabilities or injuries and they are unable to pull a compound or traditional equipment.


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## zyxw (Feb 19, 2007)

I hate it. Same happened in NC this coming year


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Great news. I get tired of training wheel archers whining about crossbows:wink:


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## hunlee (Jan 9, 2009)

Jim C said:


> Great news. I get tired of training wheel archers whining about crossbows:wink:


Hunlee is trying to think about this!!!!!!!!Must be you are stick bow or recurve shooterukey:Are you kin to Tred Barda??????


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## HunleesMom (Feb 20, 2009)

Boy me told you to get off computer and bring home food instead you argue ethics here on AT. mama going to show you her ethics when next you home by taking the vulcan death grip about the face, neck, and chest area of hunlee! then mama take belt to backside of hunlee until hunlee realize he should be paying attention to children and mama instead of friends mounts and arguing crossbow ethics.



hunlee said:


> Hunlee is trying to think about this!!!!!!!!Must be you are stick bow or recurve shooterukey:Are you kin to Tred Barda??????


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

hunlee said:


> Hunlee is trying to think about this!!!!!!!!Must be you are stick bow or recurve shooterukey:Are you kin to Tred Barda??????


Funny

man this thread is getting strange fast


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## harkybowhunter (Aug 13, 2007)

I think I love hunlee's mom!


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## the critter (Feb 15, 2008)

That sucks

Atleast we figured out hunlee was from Michigan...


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

Jim C said:


> Great news. I get tired of training wheel archers whining about crossbows:wink:



Now Jim - You mean to tell me someone with a 99% letoff scope sighted device with a triggered release, no fingers ever touching the strings should not have a problem with crossbows ruining "their" season?:wink:

Steve


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## hunlee (Jan 9, 2009)

Hunlee is from Michigan butt hunlee hunt in other state with bow an arrow butt never with crossbow!!!!!!!Crossbow are for lazy people that want to try their hand at hunting deer an other game animal!!!!!!These lazy people are people that will nnot and cannot become skilled marksmen with bow an arrow!!!!!!!They are down rite cheaters:angry:What would you call a person that would hunt with a crossbow??????Sure couldnt call him a bow hunter or an archer

hunlee


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

SteveB said:


> Now Jim - You mean to tell me someone with a 99% letoff scope sighted device with a triggered release, no fingers ever touching the strings should not have a problem with crossbows ruining "their" season?:wink:
> 
> Steve


Yeah something like that:wink:


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

hunlee said:


> Hunlee is from Michigan butt hunlee hunt in other state with bow an arrow butt never with crossbow!!!!!!!Crossbow are for lazy people that want to try their hand at hunting deer an other game animal!!!!!!These lazy people are people that will nnot and cannot become skilled marksmen with bow an arrow!!!!!!!They are down rite cheaters:angry:What would you call a person that would hunt with a crossbow??????Sure couldnt call him a bow hunter or an archer
> 
> hunlee


I get it-you work for Ingrid Newkirk


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

hunlee said:


> Hunlee is from Michigan *butt.* [/B] .


I'll buy that.. :wink:


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## Z-Rider (Jul 23, 2007)

Biggest problem I see with it is the un-educated people in the local shops that say " Great, now I will take up bow hunting, never interested in the sport before as it was to much of a close range thing! " When asked what they mean by this they reply, " Well I can use a croosbow and still take an animal at 100 yards. " Man is this state in for a rude awakening. I have no problem with it, but do think they need to require some form of qualification to use one.

Make sure these previously non-archery hunting folks understand that they are still short range weapons. That is all I ask, I really do not want to see animals running around late in the season with crossbow bolts protruding from their bodies because someone thought he/she were shooting a firearm.


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## lawton (Feb 1, 2009)

Unless something has changed in the last few days the ruling on Crossbows was for adults 50 and over.


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

Z-Rider said:


> Make sure these previously non-archery hunting folks understand that they are still short range weapons. That is all I ask, I really do not want to see animals running around late in the season with crossbow bolts protruding from their bodies because someone thought he/she were shooting a firearm.


Have you anything to share with us that this has happened anywhere?

Steve


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## Rev44 (Dec 19, 2008)

It is for people 50 and over. From Oct 1 to November 14


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## hunlee (Jan 9, 2009)

Hunlee received a phone call last nite saying crossbow can be used by any hunter 12 year and older!!!!!!!Hunlee had heard it was for people over 50 butt from what they said it was changed!!!!!!!!Hunlee will do some resurch on this today!!!!!!!Hunlee will say this,,,,,,Hunlee is going to be 55 year this summer and there will be no crossbow in tree with Hunlee:wink:The state of Michigan is only interested in getting the extra money for hunting liesence from the added hunter!!!!!!!!What will come next???????Maybe a three month long gun seesun 

hunlee


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

Rather than wait on hunlee to post something that is unintelligible and most likely wrong here are the Crossbow FAQs from Michigan... 


*Crossbow FAQs* 

*Who can hunt with a crossbow?* 

Anyone who is 12-years-old or older and has obtained a crossbow stamp can hunt with a crossbow during any season when a firearm is allowed, for big game or small game. In addition, anyone who is 50 years older may use a crossbow during the Oct.1 – Nov. 14 archery deer season, with an archery license. And in Zone 3 (southern Michigan), anyone 12 and older can hunt with a crossbow during any hunting season as long as they have the appropriate licenses. Meanwhile, anyone who has obtained a crossbow permit because of a permanent disability can continue to use a crossbow. 

*Why is there total inclusion in just southern Michigan?* 

The Natural Resources Commission decided that the large deer population and the preponderance of private land in southern Michigan made it the best place to allow the widespread use of crossbows for evaluation while minimizing conflicts among hunters and without putting the resource at risk. 

*Why can’t I use a crossbow in the northern part of the state during the late archery deer season?* 

The NRC thought that the large migration of deer gathering in wintering yards might be subject deer to over-harvest if crossbows are widely adopted by hunters. 

*Why do I need a crossbow stamp?* 

The requirement of a crossbow stamp, which will be available free of charge beginning March 15 from all license vendors, is designed to help the Department of Natural Resources build a data base to conduct surveys. The surveys will help determine whether crossbows are effective in helping recruit new hunters, retain older hunters, and whether they increase the harvest rates of deer. Results of the surveys will help wildlife officials determine whether the use of crossbows should be further expanded or restricted. Hunters already hunting under a DNR-issued crossbow permit will not need to get a crossbow stamp. 

*Why can’t 10- and 11-year-olds use crossbows?* 

The NRC thought that there might be potential safety issues involving very young hunters using crossbows, which, unlike conventional archery gear, are pre-cocked and loaded. The DNR is optimistic that hunter safety education programs will incorporate crossbows into the curriculum. 

*Are there any restrictions on crossbows?* 

Yes, hunters are limited to crossbows that shoot bolts at no more than 350 feet per second. 

*Is it true that deer hunters must wear hunter orange when using a crossbow?*

Yes. State law is very specific that hunters must wear hunter orange unless they are hunting wild turkeys, waterfowl or with a bow and arrow. Crossbows do not meet the definition of “bow and arrow” in the current state law. The DNR will seek some modification of state law on this issue.

*Why are these regulations valid for just three years?* 

The Natural Resources Commission passed these expanded crossbow regulations on a trial basis. They have directed the DNR to evaluate the use of crossbows on hunter recruitment, retention and effectiveness.



willie - The legislative bill for full inclusion in the entire state has been passed by the hosue and is now in committee in the senate. That bill can still be forwarded.


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## GOLDNHNTR (Nov 1, 2008)

Good post willie, that answers a lot of questions. Thanks.


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## sbooy42 (Jan 2, 2007)

As of right now, a hunter using a crossbow must also wear hunter orange


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

sbooy42 said:


> As of right now, a hunter using a crossbow must also wear hunter orange


True.. that is a holdover from when a non-physically challenged deer hunter could only use it the crossbow in the firearm season. It had nothing to do with the person using a crossbw, but the fact that he was out there deer hunting in the firearm season. Look for that to be changed....as well as some other stuff.. :wink:

*The DNR will seek some modification of state law on this issue.*


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## hunlee (Jan 9, 2009)

Hunlee is wanting to thank Willie for puttin this:thumbs_upAs you can see crossbow can be used in southern Mich,,,,zone 3,,,,by 12 and older!!!!!!!!This is not good for archery seesun at all butt only good for Michigan and their gaining money for leisence sale..........This will only introduce our children to the easy way,,,,the lazy way,,,, to deer hunting!!!!!!!!The end of an era is neer for the "bow hunter archer".....>>>------> This make Hunlee very sad

hunlee


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## twin2003 (Feb 21, 2006)

hunlee said:


> Hunlee is wanting to thank Willie for puttin this:thumbs_upAs you can see crossbow can be used in southern Mich,,,,zone 3,,,,by 12 and older!!!!!!!!This is not good for archery seesun at all butt only good for Michigan and their gaining money for leisence sale..........This will only introduce our children to the easy way,,,,the lazy way,,,, to deer hunting!!!!!!!!The end of an era is neer for the "bow hunter archer".....>>>------> This make Hunlee very sad
> 
> hunlee


I understand your point, but this is a Warp Speed Over Reaction!:tongue:

How many people in MI are actually going to take advantage of the ruling. Maybe a couple thousand? I doubt 100,000 or more hunters are going to run out and spend $500-$1500 on a new crossbow just to take advantage of this ruling......Especially in this economy right now.

IMO, after a year or two, the number of hunters will drop down to the handicapped, elderly, and a few hundred that choose to stick with crossbows. 

Relax, the DNR has been trying to screw up hunting for decades, it rarely lasts more than a year or so. (Except in WI with the extermination of all the does, that's a whole different animal):angry:

-T


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*I think hunlee needs to*

pull hunlee's head out of hunlee's azz for starters. Your comments are BS from start to finish. Facts and logic don't register with you, does it hunleeeeeee? Go bowhunt with your little training wheel compound bow that was invented for *handicapped* folks back in the early 70's. Must be lots of you around.


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

moonkryket said:


> pull hunlee's head out of hunlee's azz for starters. Your comments are bs from start to finish. Facts and logic don't register with you, does it hunleeeeeee? Go bowhunt with your little training wheel compound bow that was invented for *handicapped* folks back in the early 70's. Must be lots of you around.


*ouch!!!*


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## BriceJ MI (Feb 5, 2009)

hunlee said:


> Hunlee is wanting to thank Willie for puttin this:thumbs_upAs you can see crossbow can be used in southern Mich,,,,zone 3,,,,by 12 and older!!!!!!!!This is not good for archery seesun at all butt only good for Michigan and their gaining money for leisence sale..........This will only introduce our children to the easy way,,,,the lazy way,,,, to deer hunting!!!!!!!!The end of an era is neer for the "bow hunter archer".....>>>------> This make Hunlee very sad
> 
> hunlee


Whos gonna buy a 12yo old kid a 400$ crossbow to try to get them to hunt, I know where I hunt and live people dont have the resources to spend this kind of money right now. I would like to see more youth getting into hunting dont get me wrong. Its our choice to chose which legal weapon of our preferance to hunt with .R you with the gun ban to? More hunters more voices speaking against the antis think about it ,more more more. I just dont understand the up roar of crossbows ?, you still have to be skilled to use effectivly. This is America Land of the free Home of the Brave!!!


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

If it becomes legal means and is accepted as law then it needs to be backed in full by the hunting population. That's just the way things need to be regardless of personal opinion.


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

kingvjack said:


> If it becomes legal means and is accepted as law then it needs to be backed in full by the hunting population. That's just the way things need to be regardless of personal opinion.



*Yes.... *we have enough enemies of hunting to continually snipe at each other from within.


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## oakridgehunter (Feb 28, 2009)

Exactly Willie, we either stand together or fall apart. The antihuntinggroups would like nothing better than to have us sniping at each other and dividing into separate elitist groups. How easy do we want to make it for these uninformed well-funded hate hunting clans? With the banning of all baiting in the SLP and NLP this past season, bow hunting now takes more than a little skill no matter what archery weapon is used. If you are not a good hunter than a crossbow will not make you any better. I have known more than one firearm hunter that rarely takes a deer because he or she was not taught or shown hunting skills such as: scouting, reading sign, woodsman skills, how weather affects wildlife, how wildlife utilize wind currents and different terrain, etc. etc. A crossbow hunter still often has to make a shot on a moving target while dealing with a number of obstacles and has to be proficient with his or her choice of crossbow. A crossbow is a bow, a string, sometimes cables (like a vertical compound), set to a cocked trigger release. Please, let's not argue over which type of bow we choose to have in our hands on the hunt but let us fight to save hunting for all who choose to hunt.


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

oakridgehunter said:


> Exactly Willie, we either stand together or fall apart. The antihuntinggroups would like nothing better than to have us sniping at each other and dividing into separate elitist groups. How easy do we want to make it for these uninformed well-funded hate hunting clans? With the banning of all baiting in the SLP and NLP this past season, bow hunting now takes more than a little skill no matter what archery weapon is used. If you are not a good hunter than a crossbow will not make you any better. I have known more than one firearm hunter that rarely takes a deer because he or she was not taught or shown hunting skills such as: scouting, reading sign, woodsman skills, how weather affects wildlife, how wildlife utilize wind currents and different terrain, etc. etc. A crossbow hunter still often has to make a shot on a moving target while dealing with a number of obstacles and has to be proficient with his or her choice of crossbow. A crossbow is a bow, a string, sometimes cables (like a vertical compound), set to a cocked trigger release. Please, let's not argue over which type of bow we choose to have in our hands on the hunt but let us fight to save hunting for all who choose to hunt.


I didn't agree that a cross bow was archery equip...
I simply stated that if its legal then thats that... we need to back it up...


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## oakridgehunter (Feb 28, 2009)

Understood kingvjack. I do appreciate your support for legal hunting in general which was the majority of my post. We need to value each other as part of the brotherhood (nonexclusive ladies, but generic) of hunters that have a passion for a sport that we all love.


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## jeffhunter1 (Mar 24, 2009)

I live in michigan and have bow hunted for 21 years and killed several deer with a compound bow.I am very excited to get out in the woods with a crossbow.I just ordered a new Parker Hurricane and can't wait to put the cross hairs on a good buck this season.Someone wrote about not putting your fingers on the string of a crossbow,well I didn't put my fingers on the string of my compound bow either.I used a trigger release!!


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## WSmitty01 (Feb 1, 2006)

Hunlee needs to spend less time bichen about crossbows and more time learning English and spelling!!! Is this a product of the Michigan Education System?


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## junker (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm new to bowhunting. Bought a recurve 2 years ago and last season was my first time to bowhunt. Managed to harvest 2 bucks and 2 does.

I'm also new to the crossbow fued. I don't see the big deal. Now, don't get me wrong, i'm a stick and string man. 

someone tell me why it should not be legal. Is it because it's consiered archery? What if you could only crossbow hunt during rifle season?


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## terry williams (Mar 10, 2009)

Were is TED at Dennis?


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## hunlee (Jan 9, 2009)

WSmitty01 said:


> Hunlee needs to spend less time bichen about crossbows and more time learning English and spelling!!! Is this a product of the Michigan Education System?


Are you wantin to be friend to Hunlee??????Hunlee is friend to all!!!!!!!!

hunlee


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## oakridgehunter (Feb 28, 2009)

Call me dense, Terry, or maybe it's the time of the night, or the fact I got 3-4 hours last night but you lost me, what is TED? pm if this is a sensitive thing. Glad to answer you, when I figure it out. If this is an acronym I plead stupid
Or should I say who is TED?


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## aceoky (Mar 17, 2006)

Jim C said:


> Great news. I get tired of training wheel archers whining about crossbows:wink:



Agreed!

I "could see" the outrage IF anyone was actually being forced to use a crossbow, but one more choice of BOW by each hunter, cracks me up!

Use one IF you desire , IF you don't, then don't , it's not brain surgery after all!

Stupid divisions like what OTHER FELLOW HUNTERS bow hunt with in public bow seasons, are very bad for all of us, period...


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

I thought this thing was dead. Now why did you go and poke it? :mg:


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## Michigan Bob (Oct 26, 2002)

hunlee said:


> :angry:Hunlee has just heard that anyone can hunt in Michigan 12 year and older in any seesun with a crossbow:angry:This pisses Hunlee off:angry:There was a time when the old or handicapped were the only people to hunt with crossbow and they had to go see a doctor to get the written slip stateing they were unable to draw and hunt with a bow but that has changed!!!!!!!!!Michigan law makers are steeling the archery seesun away from us!!!!!!!This law change will draw every round head and shemp into the hunting field!!!!!!!!Hunlee is A-OK with letting them hunt with a cross bow during the firearm seesun butt not during the archery seesunWhat do youall think bout this???????Hunlee think this is total BS:angry:
> 
> hunlee


I haven't been on the DNR web site in a couple of days, but the last time I was on there they said you had to be over 50 years of age to use cross bow. Not everybody.


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## hunlee (Jan 9, 2009)

Hunlee find that in zone 3 they well let everyone shoot deer with cross bow!!!!!!!!!!!Hunlee wish it was for people over 50 year of age butt they say differant!!!!!!!!Hunlee is over 50 an you will not see Hunlee hunt with cross bow!!!!!!!!If hunlee was ever to get so bow could not be pulled back then maybee but hunlee still is shootin 70 poundage!!!!!!!!!!!Hunlee is one that shoot an injoy WARP SPEED,,,,,,,Hunlee is no braggart butt this is fact!!!!!!!

hunlee


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## kevin from ohio (Jul 8, 2007)

In Ohio, crossbows have been legal for as long as I know. My dad shoots a crosbow. I am more accurate than him, and have greater distance than him.
I know a lot of hunters, very few of them use a crossbow. It's not going to change hunting nearly as much as you think.


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## oakridgehunter (Feb 28, 2009)

Well said, Kevin. Those are lessons that are still to be learned in MI. Crossbows will allow those to hunt that have been left out of archery hunting for whatever reason. It will not make good hunters unless they were already skilled at hunting. New crossbow hunters will soon learn how fast that short crossbow bolt drops and how it is affected by the wind. Also only the very adept crossbow users and hunters could ever hope to make a stalk with one. Many of these crossbows are heavy, awkward, or wide. Having said that, I love mine because it will allow me to finish out the few hunting years I have left doing what has meant so much to me for my entire life-being out in the autumn woods with a bow.


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## Redclub (Apr 14, 2009)

Here in Wi. I can use a x-bow yep I am well over 65:sad: The largest group of new hunters in Wi. are those over 65 in archery seasons and young girls in all seasons. I am sure all those old guys were hunters before but were unable to do it anymore I know I can't. Is it a big advantage? to us ol, guys it most definetely is. For a healthy person that is capable of shooting those things they call bows no advantage at all. That little 30" compound is farther from a true bow than a crossbow is to a compound. I really believe there would be less deer KILLED with a x-bow but more registered than with compounds?
Redclub


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## et1673 (Jun 26, 2007)

meet I guy a few weeks ago he was 76 years young. He was at a 3D shoot I scored for this guy and I am sure his eyesight is not was it was but he was far from last place and much beeter than allot of folks. He was using a newer bear coumbound bow. I asked him if that is what he used for bow hunting and he said "no this would be unfair when I deer hunt I use a long bow". Who says ol guys can't use a regular bow or compound bow? Maybe he still can because he still does! As my grandpa used to say "use it or lose it"

ET


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## Thump1 (May 11, 2009)

*Will No Longer Support The NRA*

TX is having the crossbows stuffed down our throats right now. After a little research it seems the NRA is the big power behind the push. The politicians want that A+ endorsement. 

I canceled my membership after talking to the NRA staff who are working to push the crossbows into all the states archery seasons.

I WILL NO LONGER SUPPORT THE NRA!

Bowhunters who are opposed to the crossbow issue need to drop their memberships. Then the NRA will start to listen or have to give away free membership to keep their numbers.


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## Thump1 (May 11, 2009)

Take the gloves off like the NRA. Bowhunters who are opposed to the crossbows in archery season need to form and fund an add committee. Place half page adds in the Bowhuning magazines asking bowhunters to withhold their support for the NRA and the Crossbow Manufacturers until such time they honor and respect archery only season. 

I've got $50 bucks I'll kick in for an add!


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## kevin from ohio (Jul 8, 2007)

would someone please explain to me what's the big deal with crossbows?


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## Thump1 (May 11, 2009)

"Sticky: No Debating The "non" Merit Of Cross Bows 
Oxford " The merit or non-merit is no longer the issue.

kevin from ohio, Bowhunters who do not support the crossbow issue have the option to no longer support the NRA. The NRA has 38 states left on their crossbow agenda with TX expected to fall in the next few weeks. Bowhunters are upset and will take action/non-action when the NRA calls asking for more money.


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## twogun (Nov 25, 2003)

Thump1 said:


> TX is having the crossbows stuffed down our throats right now. *After a little research it seems the NRA is the big power behind the push. *The politicians want that A+ endorsement.
> 
> I canceled my membership after talking to the NRA staff who are working to push the crossbows into all the states archery seasons.
> 
> ...


Can you substantiate that at all?


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## Thump1 (May 11, 2009)

twogun, Yes. I've had three phone conversations with NRA Staff and their nation wide support for the crossbow in archery season is way off the charts. NRA main number 800-392-8683, Darren 703-267-1207, and John 703-267-1141. Don't let them push you off to the side and just leave a voice mail opinion. 

The NRA also posted a news release on their website listing PA as the 12th state they made crossbows legal during archery season and how they were going to work to push the crossbows into all state archery only seasons. 

Last Monday the NRA Lobby guys were present when the tx senate overwhelming passed the crossbow issue here in TX when support against the crossbow issue is running 6 to 1.


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## twogun (Nov 25, 2003)

I did find this as it relates to PA.



> NRA strongly advocates for any expansion of hunter opportunity and choice when there is no biological reason to oppose the expansion. In fact, states that have allowed the use of crossbows have been able to maintain healthy wildlife populations. Additionally, the recruitment and retention of hunters has improved by removing crossbow restrictions. At a time when the number of hunters is declining, nothing is more important than the ongoing effort to preserve and strengthen our hunting heritage.


http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/ltr_pagamecomm.pdf


Here is a link to their letter:

http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/ltr_pagamecomm.pdf


Sounds like a pro-hunting group fighting for increased freedoms and opportunities for sportsmen.

Any bowhunter who cancels a membership with the NRA in the current political climate over something this trivial is, well, very misguided.


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## Thump1 (May 11, 2009)

Twogun, That's exactly what a lot of bowhunters are doing. They are very upset with the crossbows being shoved down their throats by the NRA and they're canceling their memberships.

Misguided ????. Next you're going to tell me to commemorate Waco and the OK City Federal Building bombing the NRA is sponsoring a pro 2A movement march on that same day, 19 April. 

The NRA needs "conflict" to scare people into giving them money!


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## Gray Hunter (May 19, 2009)

*Michigan Hunting Regs Change*



hunlee said:


> :angry:Hunlee has just heard that anyone can hunt in Michigan 12 year and older in any seesun with a crossbow:angry:
> hunlee


Apparently the quoted regulation is only for certain counties in southern Michigan. The big change is that anyone over 50 can use a crossbow in the early bow season from Oct. 1-Nov. 14. I am sympathetic to the plight of older archers who can no longer draw their hunting compound, I fit that catagory myself! At 73 and plagued by arthritis in both shoulders, I could no longer draw my 65# bow even cranked down to the lowest possible draw weight, 47#. I applied to the Michigan DNR and received a draw lock permit. I now hunt with a "Lock-a-Draw" draw lock which allowed me to draw my bow at its full draw weight (62# since it is nearly 20 years old). I can easily draw the bow with both hands and feet, from a sitting position in a tree stand. It has restored my ability to hunt. In the last two seasons I have bagged my limit, two deer each season, all with my compound bow. 

A draw lock is considered a crossbow in Michigan regulations. My personal opinion is that Michigan has gone way overboard in the change of regulations. I do not considder the use of a crossbow as archery. With its scope sight system it is basically a rifle, able to accurately kill a dear at rifle like distances. Why not just allow rifles from Oct. 1-Nov. 30 if they are just trying to get rid of deer? The crossbow takes a lot of the skill out of bowhunting. 

What I feel they should have done is allow use of a draw lock for people over 65 (certainly not 50 ) and reserve crossbow use for people who are really disabled, but continue to require a permit.

In defense of my position, I would argue that there is a significant difference between a crossbow and a draw lock and they should not be treated the same under the law. With the draw lock you still use your compound bow, even completely unmodified in the case of the Lock-a-draw, you have the same sights, the same possibility of torquing the bow, the same arrows, and the same satisfaction of a true archery experience. The draw lock does confer some advantages in accuracy and stealth. It has a mechanical anchor point (no variation), and not having to draw the bow in the presence of game is a big advantage. Therefore I do not feel it is wise to grant the use of a draw lock to everyone during bow season, but to the elderly and mildly disabled it is a God-send for those who love to bowhunt.

What do you think?

Gray Hunter


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## jh45gun (May 24, 2009)

Hunlee you say your from MI but hunt in an other state I hope it is not WI we do not need any more narrow minded hunters here. This crossbow arguement is so lame as there is no difference between a compound and a crossbow in performance. If it puts more folks in the woods great as we are loosing hunters and we need new hunters to keep us strong against the anti hunting groups. There should be no reason for one hunter to bash an other for their choice of weapons.


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## jh45gun (May 24, 2009)

Gray Hunter said:


> Apparently the quoted regulation is only for certain counties in southern Michigan. The big change is that anyone over 50 can use a crossbow in the early bow season from Oct. 1-Nov. 14. I am sympathetic to the plight of older archers who can no longer draw their hunting compound, I fit that catagory myself! At 73 and plagued by arthritis in both shoulders, I could no longer draw my 65# bow even cranked down to the lowest possible draw weight, 47#. I applied to the Michigan DNR and received a draw lock permit. I now hunt with a "Lock-a-Draw" draw lock which allowed me to draw my bow at its full draw weight (62# since it is nearly 20 years old). I can easily draw the bow with both hands and feet, from a sitting position in a tree stand. It has restored my ability to hunt. In the last two seasons I have bagged my limit, two deer each season, all with my compound bow.
> 
> A draw lock is considered a crossbow in Michigan regulations. My personal opinion is that Michigan has gone way overboard in the change of regulations. I do not considder the use of a crossbow as archery. With its scope sight system it is basically a rifle, able to accurately kill a dear at rifle like distances. Why not just allow rifles from Oct. 1-Nov. 30 if they are just trying to get rid of deer? The crossbow takes a lot of the skill out of bowhunting.
> 
> ...



I think you have never shot a crossbow and you have no idea of what you speak of since crossbows and bows shoot the same distances nothing more nothing less. Think about it a crossbow is a horizontal bow instead of a verticle one. If you sight your bow in for 20 yards you need to make an adjustment to shoot at 30 same thing with a crossbow if your sighted in at Hunting ranges using a scope that has different yardages (No different than bow sights with multiple pins) you cannot shoot longer distances unless you would hold way over like a bow shooter. The physics of the arrow flight just does not allow the crossbow to act any different in perfomance then bow. This shoot like a rifle at long distances arguement is bunk.


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## jh45gun (May 24, 2009)

You know there was a troll type that used to hang around the Marlin forums before it was pulled by Marlin where a member talked in the 3rd person like hunlee does he then went to greybeards where he got banned. I wonder same person? Never could figure out why some one would talk like that?????


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## wheelie (Mar 2, 2009)

Well I find it funny that with all the anti hunting groups out there that there are some hunters so narrow minded that would want to attack other hunters.
Your efforts would be much better to fight the anti's instead of fellow hunters. What makes one think a crossbow has an advantage over a compound bow? Crossbow is more combrersome than a compound and if one thinks that because it is cocked already, I think maybe some need to practise more drawing there compounds to get better at it. Hunter are declining and if we don't raise the numbers well we all might loss our right.
My opinion on this whole thing is insecure hunters worried with more hunters that they are not good enought at there own skills and will go home with nothing every time. Well for turkey I take a pure bread beagle pup with me to sit in the blind with me. LOL he escapes and I have to go get him. Its not about the kill it is about fun and being happy to be out doors! Maybe people that have to attact other hunters, and there form of weapon had better take a look at themselves in the mirror. My two cents and yes I shoot a hoyt compound.


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## Thump1 (May 11, 2009)

I did not pick this fight the NRA and the ATA picked it. Why, I'm guessing because rifle hunting numbers are declining while bowhunting numbers are climbing. The NRA figures its ok to do away with the archery only season because they think it will increase memberships. Only problem is they forget to remove the landmines before they decided to throw bowhunters under their bus.

If the NRA is such a big protector of hunting rights where were they when archery only season came under attack, they were helping to lead the attack. 


NRA's mis-step, follow the money! 



http://www.nrahq.org/recruiters/graphics/spring2006.pdf


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## dadhuntsnow (May 31, 2009)

*recruitment*

I have become an avid bowhunter because I am able to use a crossbow, would have never have become a hunter in my 50's if I hadn't been able to use the crossbow. Shoulder is too creaky and banged up to stress it with a conventional bow. I tried hunting for the first time during rifle at age 50, but archery season sounded so much better. Was told I could use a crossbow, and I really go into hunting. Only statistic I have about recruitment is me.


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## oakridgehunter (Feb 28, 2009)

Michigan has made an admirable beginning. As the state progresses with this issue fewer hunters will be left out of archery hunting. The Michigan DNR has wisely said that crossbows will have no effect on the resource. I know of noone in Michigan that uses a verticle bow that would give up their equipment if they don't have to do so because of their love of their bows and the investment they have in time and money. Crossbows are no less of an investment and so I do not see thousands jumping into this change unless they have to do it. 

By the way, I have a disability permit and can hunt any season if I choose to do so. The December season would be far too difficult for me without a great deal of assistance. I believe that many of the 50 crowd or disability folks would be in the same boat.

The wisest course, IMO, is to work together as hunters and give this issue a rest until this new law has a fair trial which the 3 yr period provides.


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## Riva (Sep 4, 2006)

*Wrong!*



oakridgehunter said:


> The wisest course, IMO, is to work together as hunters and give this issue a rest until this new law has a fair trial which the 3 yr period provides.


With all due respect, your advice is patently wrong. It is a bad response to an already bad policy made last March by the NRC. Prior to the vote, the Wildlife Division of the DNR wrote the following opinion surrounding crossbows: 
*“The Wildlife Division has stated that the use of crossbows would not have a detrimental effect on wildlife populations.”*

It was subsequently confirmed with the DNR that this sentence was indeed scribed in the context of all our all current hunting seasons and, not merely in the context of three reccomendations made in January. 

To the rational, thinking person, this can mean only one thing; science has been satisfied! Based on that alone, the only option that existed was for the NRC to a craft policy that reconciles this declaration by creating hunter opportunity of an equal measure. Political and social considerations are moot. 

Regrettably, the NRC failed to live up to its obligation that requires it, as a body, to manage our resources based solely on sound scientific principals. What was approved was a seemingly disconnected and arbitrary mishmash of policy, leaving even those totally opposed to crossbow expansion in disbelief. They are:
Full inclusion of crossbows in the Zone #3 (SLP) for all hunters (except 10 & 11 year olds) during all seasons, including both early and late archery season. 

Hunters age 50 and over can use crossbows during archery season from October 1st - November 14th in Zone 2 and 3 (NLP and UP).

Crossbows may have a maximum bolt speed of 350 fps.

The NRC is asking the legislature for approval to create a crossbow stamp/license for individuals who are eligible to hunt with a crossbow under points 1 & 2.

There is a 3 year sunset provision in place for these regulations. They will expire and need to be revisited in three years. 

These regulations are patently absurd. There's no reason for 10 & 11 year olds to be excluded in the SLP, there's no reason why those 50 and over in the Northern Lower Peninsula and Upper Peninsula aren’t able to hunt during the late archery season, and there's no reason why they failed to address the issue of being able to use a crossbow when firearms are legal, such as in spring turkey season.

Most importantly, there's no reason why full inclusion wasn't approved for the entire state when our own DNR has already stated that the use of a crossbow would not have a detrimental effect on wildlife populations!

Since the NRC has now failed to apply scientific principles to the management of the resource, it's now time for the legislature to finish the process.

By waiting for the 3-year sunset to expire, as you suggest, allows the real possibility of having the cement dry and we will be forced to live with this flawed policy now and forever amen!


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## 'J' (May 19, 2009)

A crossbow is nothing less than a rifle with a silencer it's not surprising that the nra is involved.


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

hunlee said:


> Hunlee is from Michigan butt hunlee hunt in other state with bow an arrow butt never with crossbow!!!!!!!Crossbow are for lazy people that want to try their hand at hunting deer an other game animal!!!!!!These lazy people are people that will nnot and cannot become skilled marksmen with bow an arrow!!!!!!!They are down rite cheaters:angry:What would you call a person that would hunt with a crossbow??????Sure couldnt call him a bow hunter or an archer
> 
> hunlee


What about someone serving for our country that got their arm blown off dude? They can't draw a bow so they have to use a crossbow. Don't sound lazy to me. I don't like you very much. ukey:


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## hunlee (Jan 9, 2009)

Hunlee has no problem with disabled people useing cross bow,,,,,,,in fact hunlee is glad there is cross bow for disabled!!!!!!!!Hunlee is not in favor of the fit useing one tho

hunlee


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## Riva (Sep 4, 2006)

*Hunlee*

I find it novel that you refer to yourself in the third person in your posts. after reading the content thereof, I would also suggest that you write in a different tense, as in PAST.


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## wicked1Joe (May 19, 2009)

Jeeeezzz...what a thread...
It's a wonder a mod hasn't put a end to it...


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