# BlackWidow Bows....Why So EXPENSIVE??



## HeWhoHunts (Jul 15, 2005)

*Couple reasons, IMO*

There is a couple reason for that IMO.

One....did you notice how the limbs are laminated???? A whole bunch more work and precision to make those limbs.

Two....BW has a reputation that has lasted DECADES, to be good, smooth, fast bows.

Three........and the most obvious one to me

BECAUSE THEY CAN GET IT! Order one.......there is a heck of a waiting list, or at least was two years ago. A buddy ordered one with two sets of limbs, it was close to 5 months before he got them. (IF I remember right..but at least a LONG time, to me).

They offer great bows and lots want one.........supply and demand allows prices to go up with demand. Advertising is probably VERY expensive, and they DO advertise......lots. 

Awesome bows, I wish I would have kept mine.....but oh well, hindsight.

They arent one I would buy NOW to own less than the rest of my life. See what used ones go for, and deduct from what you pay for a new one. OUCH!

If you have the money.......they are awefully good bows but .....again, lots out there today are. They just aren't Black Widow!


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## Abel (Jun 2, 2004)

Black Widow's prices are in line with most premium bow makers out there. Check out the other top of the line names like Morrison, Habu, Hummingbird, O.L. Adcock, Robertson, or Schafer Silvertip.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I think you got it right on two counts.



> BECAUSE THEY CAN GET IT!





> Advertising is probably VERY expensive, and they DO advertise......lots.


BW isn't the only company to charge prices like that, but there's still places where you can get an excellent bow at good deal--Navajo, Marriah, Chek-Mate--and probably a few others I can't think of off the top of my head. 

Look up the material costs--you can look at 3 Rivers, Bingham's, etc. Then figure on a good discount because they buy in bulk. They are going to have less than $200 worth of materials in a bow. Overhead--labor, tools, utilities, insurance, advertising, etc. takes up the rest--and of course profit. Take the same woods and the same general bow design (for instance, a take-down recurve) and the cost for materials and time required to build that bow isn't going to vary much at all--but the price will. 

I think Ken Beck is an marketing genius. He's made BW bows the "benchmark". Chek-Mate Archery has been in business under the same ownership longer than Ken was with BW, but they don't advertise, and until a few years ago you would be hard pressed to find anyone who had heard of a CM in the U.S. Both companies have maintained for a long, long time; both make a quality product, but you hear and pay a lot more for one than you do the other.

Some folks feel they are worth the money, some don't. I've had two, and don't regret selling them--but that's just me.

Chad


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## CAJUNBOWHNTR (Nov 8, 2002)

For starters black widow is not one guy out back in his shop making bows.They have employees, advertising, R&D, a lot more overhead.There bows are not that much more expensive than many other high end custom bows as mentioned.

I agree they do a good job of marketing,but that will only get you so far.You still have to make a fine bow and they do.



CB


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## Abel (Jun 2, 2004)

An Acadian three-piece recurve costs anywhere from 750 and higher, depending on options.

A Hummingbird Kingfisher is 850.

A Morrison Shawnee starts at 850.

A Robertson Falcon is anywhere from 775-1150.

A Habu starts at 899.

The Bob Lee Bicentennial Takedown is 800.

The Fred Bear A-Handle Takedown is 970. 

Premium quality commands a premium price.


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

I bought my first Black Widow in 1983 for about $435, an enormous amount of money at the time. It cost more than a Bear T/D (Custom Kodiak in those days) and the bow was considered a long standing marque, even at that time. I've purchased several BWs since then. Black Widow was a standard to aspire to long before Ken Beck arrived on the scene and will likely continue to be so long after he's left, a fine tribute. In addition to the usual praddle about overhead and advertising costs, there is a lot of labor put into BW bows. I guess with their new machinery, there's a lot of expensive machining time too, LOL. Whether you want to pay for the labor, fit and polish is a personal call. You can probably find another bowyer who puts in as much time and will sell for less and if you like the bows, they could be a real bargain. I prefer the large riser MA recurves because they fit me well and I shoot them well and believe this is the final and most important measure. I have shot a few BW models I didn't like and would, frankly, pass on them. Life is short, shoot 'em all.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

That's true CB. Navajo and Chek-Mate aren't either. I haven't talked with Ric Anderson at Marriah in a while, so I don't know just how his operation is going these days, but I believe Roy Hall at Navajo is producing over 400 bows a year, and Chek-Mate puts out 500-750 bows a year consistently. Roy has been in business for several years, and Chek-Mate has been in business for well over 30 years, under the same ownership. Not exactly back-yard hobby bowyers. CM doesn't spend a dime on advertising, but they keep a backlog of 4-8 months year-round.

BW does make a quality bow, but advertising WILL get you a long, long way. Look at Harley Davidson motorcycles, Tommy Hilfiger, GUESS, etc. Are these products really superior, or do most folks buy them for the name? Would Black Widow be anywhere near the archery status symbol they are today without the massive amount of advertising? I don't think so.

I've seen too many people at too many shoots that could barely hit a barn from the inside with their high dollar "Brand X" bow, but they were mighty proud of that bow and would tell anyone that will listen it's the best bow made--paying extra didn't make them shoot any better, it just made them feel better about what bow they are toting around. They get caught up in the ads and fads and base their purchase on that. 

Then you will see the quieter, more experienced guys that let their shooting do the talking, and most any of them can out-shoot the average archer with any decent bow they have in their hands. These guys have their favorites--and sometimes that will change on a regular basis--but most will tell you that among the better bows there's not any one that's head and shoulders above the rest.

I don't exactly fall into either category--I'm not real quiet, and I'm not the best shot around, but I'm not a beginner or a real crappy shot either. I have owned and shot a lot of different bows over a period of several years. I haven't seen or shot anything that's going to turn the archery world on it's ear. I've learned to read between the lines when "reports" are published. I'm real skeptical of amazing stories--I've never seen proof of the most amazing ones. I don't think there are any magic bows, and in my opinion there aren't any that, to me, are worth $1,000 based on the way they shoot.

A Premium Name Brand Demands a Premium Price
Chad


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

Chad, I largely agree with you. I've bee looking for the magic bow for over 20 years and haven't found it yet, LOL. I'd much rather be a good shot with a shabby bow than a poor shot with an expensive bow - and I probably qualify closer to the latter than the former  . 

Recurves I've experimented with seem to shoot fairly similarly despite their cost, something I've never been able to figure out. I have a few very spendy and a bunch of less spendy recurves that simply don't shoot well for me. BW MAs shoot for me. Yeah I wish they were $20 but they aren't. What's a guy to do? 

As for the advertising and overhead arguments; I skim through a bunch of archery mags every month and most advertising I see is for Martin archery. They even use a pretty model, gotta love those guys! One magazine I looked over a month or two ago had 3 full page Martin adds. Talk about overhead. I don't see Black Widow as having marketing genius, I see them as being a savvy business. In the last analysis, if BWs, or any other bows for that matter, shoot well for you and you like them, they're worth the money. If not, keep looking ...


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

That's been my experience too AK, except for the BW 'curves shooting best for me. I'm not a recurve shooter anyhow (I like longbows), but I have shot a lot of recurves and one shot pretty much as good as the next, with a few here and there that just didn't feel right at all. The BW recurves I've shot were nice enough, but in my hands didn't shoot any better than an old Pearson or Bear.

There is a bit to the advertising and overhead. I have a small business myself, and advertising costs are ridiculous. Full page, full color ads in a nationwide magazine will hurt your feelings. A color catalog really hurts--shoot, just the professional photography costs a bundle, not to mention getting it assembled, printed, and mailed. Remember Martin also has a compound business to help pay for their ads, and their trad bows are coming on in there with the prices of many custom bows.

The CNC equipment wasn't cheap I'm sure, but my guess is it will save a bundle in labor costs.

Regardless, I agree with your last statement too--if it works for you (and you can afford it), then it's probably worth it. 

Chad


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## NALAjr (Jun 5, 2005)

Well I am glad you all have explained it all to me. I didn't know that other top notch bowyers charge as much as they do. When I looked at the post above that listed the prices I was surprised. I thought the top guys were well below what BW was charging, not right at their level.
I'd still like to see one though.

Thanks again.

Nala


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

Harrison-Fisk Longbows: $850 for one piece, $1100 for two piece take-down.


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## deadeye (Aug 22, 2002)

Very well put LBR as always.

For me I would rather spend my money on my arrows than high dollar bows.

I just can't see a difference in my chek-mate and my morrison.Both are very good bows. Chek-mate 450.00 morrison 900.00.

That's almost 4 dozen acc arrows.


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## Abel (Jun 2, 2004)

I think that anyone who owns a Checkmate can attest to the fact that they are the exception and not the rule. They are great bows for much less than what is considered the average price for a great bow. That being said, they are not for everyone. Some folks just want something a little fancier or a little different. We are pretty lucky to have so many selections. I will probably end up with a PSA II instead of a Hunter II, just because I like the way it looks. If I don't like the way it shoots, I'll sell it and get a Martin Hatfield or a Bob Lee. Or maybe a Morrison Shawnee.....So many bows, so little time. Its a great problem to have.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> Harrison-Fisk Longbows: $850 for one piece, $1100 for two piece take-down.


Shoot, you can find quite a few bows that exceed the BW prices these days. I've only shot one Jack Harrison longbow, and I have no clue how they sold for what they did. Evidently somebody likes them though. After a few shots I started thinking "Maybe those Jerry Hill bows aren't so bad after all".  

After a little thought, I'll remembered a true story (at least it was told to me as a true story) that will tell you a lot about the mentality of folks.

A fellow was a dealer for a certain company. One of the recurves was cheap, and he priced it accordingly. He seldom sold one of these bows. I forget the reason--he got mad, did it on a fluke, whatever--but he jacked the price up on that cheap bow, and all of a sudden he couldn't get them fast enough. Exact same bow, same woods, same bowyer--when it was cheap, it didn't sell; when the price went up, it went like hotcakes. I just talked to a fellow that was set up at a show a week or two ago. He had some premium hardwood shafting for sale for $12 a dozen. Barely sold any. Jacked the price up to $18 a dozen, at the SAME SHOW, and sold out. You do the math.

Chad


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## rwilliams (May 29, 2005)

A diamond isn't much good for anything except cutting glass and other hard materials, but they're worth an awful lot of money. It's not how suitable for a given purpose or how useful or well built something is that sets the price. Anything is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. Black Widow has a certain appeal that I don't understand, but to those that love them, they're worth 1,000.00 because that's what they'll pay for them. I don't think they're worth that much, but enough people do to set the price in that area.


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## Arrowsmit (Oct 5, 2002)

BWs are great bows, period. They always have been. The market simply wouldn't bear their asking price if they weren't. They were an icon in archery circles long before Mr. Beck aquired the company, he has merely managed to keep this great tradition alive. Just talk to an old-time archer or two & most will still remember the old Wilson Bros. bows.

I've shot BW recurves for many years & like AKRuss, have found no other wooden handled bow that shoots as good for me. 

BTW, now that the kids are grown & out of the house, I have a Harley Davidson motorcycle too. :shade:


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

the thing that keeps me from ever criticizing BW is that all through the dark days when wheels were taking over and the other big names (BP, Bear, Wing, etc.) were either closing up shop or switching to pullys, BW kept making recurves. Keeping the faith has to be worth something!

Dave


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## PineLander (Oct 28, 2003)

Well, I think BW gets the premium price because it has been around for a very long time. Sure, some will say they are the best shooting bow for them (hello Vic) and others say they are not impressed (hello to me). Different bows have different appeal to people, doesn't mean that any of them are not good shooting bows. For me, after owning about 10 different custom recurves in the last year or so, I think along the same lines as AKRuss... Recurves shoot fairly similarly despite their cost. Some people like having the best and in many cases being high-priced seems to have something to do with that. I used to find it very easy to spend high $$ on the beautiful bows, but it didn't take too many of them for me to figure out that performance and shootablity is not always related to the price. There... and ya'll thought I was going say something about Quinn recurves. LOL


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## Fuzzy Hoyt Shooter (May 16, 2005)

*Custom Bows? Here's one!!*

I recently purchased a "longbow" from a pawn shop that says " Bear Archery an BA-P01" on the handle part of the bow along with a Bear Archery Sticker on it. I had a Bear collector to look at it and he told me he would get me ANY CUSTOM BOW OF MY CHOICE for trade of this bow. He told me that it is a 1941 Bear Field bow Prototype bow that there is only ONE of. I ask myself, do I want to trade it or just hang on to it? I paid 20 bucks for it at the pawn shop and now find out that there are some collectors that would give up to $4,000.00 to $5,000.00 for it!!! 

What would you do???
Hoyt Flame 05


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## Abel (Jun 2, 2004)

I would sell it for $4,000.00 Put that sucker on ebay.


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## Farley (Aug 1, 2005)

I say use it or lose it, can't see much purpose of owning it you don't shoot it. Sell it and buy a Chek-Mate


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## kildog (Jun 6, 2003)

LBR...you made some very valid points and if the bowyers produced trash they would not still be in business....I personally like Crow Creek bows. They feel better and shoot better for me than a Black Widow. Elmer Patton ...who owns and makes CC bows is a true artist and very reasonably priced for a custom bow......around $550-$750 for some very very nice bows! If you get a chance shoot a Crow Creek bow...It is an extension of arm. KD


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I haven't seen Elmer in a while, but I have talked to him (seemed like a really nice guy) and shot a round somewhere with his son--can't remember if it was AR or AL--think it was at the old Howard Hill shoot in Wilsonville. Absolutely beautiful bows, and the one I shot was very nice. A bit more radical/recurve-ish in design than I really care for in a longbow--reminded me very much of Roy Hall's Navajo--but a very nice bow.

Chad


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## kildog (Jun 6, 2003)

LBR...most of his longbows especially the take-down DO have more radical recurve design...I had him build me a one-piece longbow and it has far less relflex design in the limb than most of his....it is almost strait limb. it also is not center cut....and I really like shooting it better....once I got the sight pic for it....in the beginning I was shooting way left....but the gray matter has pulled it over. I was not advocating that he is the only good custom bowyer but that he should be considered when looking for a custom bow at a reasonable price. KD


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

No argument from me KD. I haven't priced his bows in a long time, and really couldn't remember what they were when I did price them--just remember they were very nice.

Chad


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## kildog (Jun 6, 2003)

LBR....you gonna make the Arkansas Longbow Association shoot on Labor day weekend? If so...look me up! KD


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

What part of AR? Never been to that one. Can't promise anything with the price of gas, but you never know--I've already skipped two big shoots this summer that I really wanted to do, because of other things going on. 

Chad


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## bluej1165 (Mar 25, 2005)

*black widow bows expensive*

If you want a good bow for the money I would suggest a samick hawkeye. It is a widow clone for a third of the price of a black widow. I have a friend that ownes a psav ironwood bow. I shot the black widow and the hawkeye and the hawkeye shoots as good or better than the black widow. If the widow is so good why don't they offer a lifetime warranty. Contact Larry at www.lostnationarchery.com and he will fix you up on a bow for a good price.


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## kildog (Jun 6, 2003)

Chad its at Camp robinson just outside of Conway. I definitely know what you mean about the gas!!!!It is causing me to rethink and redo some things too! KD


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## blackfeet1954 (May 4, 2012)

The bows are beautiful and well crafted. I think it is expectation to pay a lot for a Black Widow. The are on par with a Rolex or Ferrari, status symbol. I own vintage Bear, Hoyt, Wing, Ben Pearson, Root, Samick, and Shakespeare. The best shooter of the bunch is a Shakespeare Bow and the fastest is a Horse bow Samick. I have had a friend who was a BW addict. We had a little competition for distance and accuracy. My $75 Shakespeare easily beat his $800 Black Widow. Then I took his bow and he took mine and we had a rematch, guess who won?? He did shooting my $75 Shakespeare. The truth is not much has changed on bow design since the 1960's. The materials have not changes that much and neither has the design. Some prefer the name recognition and status of a Black Widow, the are incredible beautiful bows.. I prefer to spend a lot less, do a little refinishing, and get a lot more bow for 1/6 the price.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

If you have to ask then there's no explaining it.

LOL just giving you a hard time..

They ARE excellent bows, and the market can bear that price


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## Razith (Mar 24, 2013)

Ha! 1000$ I wanted a Presentation 3 from bob lee until I saw the 1750$ price tag. Most of his higher end bows are 1500$+, which sucks for anyones wallet XD


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## Trigun (Mar 27, 2005)

I cannot see a $1000 high end bow with excellent workmanship is over priced, think about it is not a single day work, it took more than a weeks time to finish a bow, I don't have a BW but I do have a Chekmate Beaver Creek longbow, it is an excellent bow for the money that I paid for, but to compare with many high end bow that I have seen, it is indeed lacking of refinement. Sometimes it is a man's toy, if you really want it, that little among of money different, just buy it so that you won't feel regret later.

Edmond


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Buying a BW is the ultimate in paying for a name.

The only performance aspect is that they have lots of deflex and good balance. However the riser design actually takes less raw materials then a more typical arrangement, so you have to ask yourself exactly what you are paying for?

-Grant


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> Buying a BW is the ultimate in paying for a name.
> 
> The only performance aspect is that they have lots of deflex and good balance. However the riser design actually takes less raw materials then a more typical arrangement, so you have to ask yourself exactly what you are paying for?
> 
> -Grant


I'm with grant...my answer was going to be...

Cause they have a cool (if not dark) name and a spider on the side...never was a fan of TD's where the limbs pull away from the riser instead of against it then hammer against the riser at release instead of away from the riser....always seemed like they were built backwards to me which is why when decision time came?...I bought a Bob Lee...despite the fact that I thought the lines and name of the BW's were cooler....just couldn't do it....but they have plenty of content customers....go figure.


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## bowhuntrmaniac (Jan 22, 2012)

I live about 20 miles from BW and know Ken andsome of the guys that work there. They do quality work, a lot still by hand. i have owned a few, but due to my dumbness and macho ideas, I always got too much weight so couldnot shoot worth a darn. Now I have wised up on lower weight , but can't afford one!!! Nice bows, but gotta be honest. There are faster cheaper bows out there. I would not give up my TT Titan and BF Extreme limbs .


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## 1shot1 (Oct 14, 2013)

LOVE my PTF3 60inch one piece 49lbs @30inches, Asbell grip in fall oak color... Smoooth, hits where I look, great feel and easy on the eyes... I had a heavy one also BowHuntrManiac, 65lbs, ordered this one lighter draw so I could hunt with it till I die... Keel over bringing a fine Coues off the mountain (or with sweet 20year old latina, either would be a good way to go hehehe)...


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

In my eyes it's really simple.....when I go to buy a new car I go to the Ford,chevy,Toyota lot because that's the ones that I can afford....I know that range rover,Mercedes,BMW and many others sell vehicles too but I can't afford them and I know it.

If I wasn't looking to spend $1000 on a bow I wouldn't be looking in the custom section.

There's ALOT of good bows out there for ALOT less than $1000 that's where I'd start..Samick,Trad Tech, more of the production bow co.


Spending $1000 on a bow takes a big commitment to me the ILF is the most fail safe bow simply because of the adjustability in weight tiller,length,arrow weight limbs...the list goes on and on..my hunting bow cost me $550 one of the best bows I've ever owned at any price...I found it used.


Dewayne


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## ozzypop (Sep 23, 2010)

Of course the best ILF risers and limbs can be close to $1000. Mine at this time is about $600. I love BWs. Never owned one but have got their catalogs for years. If I had any friends I would ask them to buy me one.


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

Just some food for thought - but I think that the reason so many other bowyers are charging as much for their bows as they are is because they figure "if BW can get what they ask, why can't we?" 

Marketing is a big part of it - think of it this way - if Nike shoes were $15.00 a pair, do you think they would sell more shoes or less? Sometimes charging more will increase sales.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

BW isn't near the most expensive bow anymore, and their customer service is outstanding. They don't brag on themselves, but they do a lot for charity also.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

Theres several bowyers much more expensive than BW.....Blacktail,Dale Dye,Schafer,Bob Lee,Black Swan,Habu,zippers,and I guarantee none of these guy have better service as BW..

Seems to me about any bowyer today is charging 800-$1000 for any bow...a good set of ILF limbs start at $500..I'm now shooting Sky bows and the riser alone was $749.00 


Dewayne


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

They are expensive, but American made by a staff of folks that are trying to keep the lights on. They do a lot of work with advertising and have a good product. I don't ever see myself paying full price for one, but you never know.


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## OkieJ (Feb 2, 2005)

Because they are like a divorce, they are worth it.


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## dwilson (Aug 23, 2009)

Wilson bros originals


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

sharpbroadhead said:


> Just some food for thought - but I think that the reason so many other bowyers are charging as much for their bows as they are is because they figure "if BW can get what they ask, why can't we?"


Buy the materials they use and build the bow with similar detail. I guarantee you, $1000 will feel like you are giving your money and labor away. The reason many bowyers are asking more than BW for a custom bow, I imagine, is that they lack the same scale as BW and probably refuse to do it for less than the razor thin margin.


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

I have never owned one of their recurves, but shot a few. A well made , very well mannered bow ...

But their longbows tick a lot of boxes for me ... Long , lean and bombproof ... And there is one Osage t/d Plx out there that tops my 'bows I should never have sold list '

You might find a company or bowyer with similar customer service ... But I doubt you'll find a company with better customer service .


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## Manhunter50 (Oct 23, 2006)

OkieJ said:


> Because they are like a divorce, they are worth it.


Amen, Brutha! Having just gone throught it, I say "Amen!" And I'm about to buy my first (new) BW to celebrate!


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

Widows are fine bows...........................drug up a 5 year old thread to rehash how good a bow they are, huh.
wonder why silvertip threads aren't rehashed like that?
original post was 05.


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

sorry about my math.............. 8 year old thread. maybe 9 year old.


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## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

If you can afford them and like something well enough, their prices aren't out of line. 

If you can't and don't, then you won't. 

To some they are the best, and to some they aren't worth the price. ..that's the way of the world. ..

They charge what they do, to make a profit. ..not to go broke. There is a lot that goes into the price of each bow..not just labor and materials. 

I've owned a few..and they are great bows...and they hold their value better than many costing the same...why...quality. .reputation. .dependable. .customer service and shootability.....this is Black Widow...and part of the overall price..

Some bows are worth more..some are worth less...it's up to the individual to determine what they place their values on and how much they are willing to spend. 


The nice thing about buying a new bow today...is there are several good companies out there that build great bows..and there are many a person can buy from in whatever price range they need....Trad bows have come a long way in the past 20 years..that's for sure. .

.

Mac


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

Ha ha, 9 years and they still are *****in' about the price of Widows. Geesh. Check out the price of a Snakebit recently? I heard $2,400+.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

reddogge said:


> Ha ha, 9 years and they still are *****in' about the price of Widows. Geesh. Check out the price of a Snakebit recently? I heard $2,400+.


That's no rumor, I went a looked myself. Glad I got mine before the price went up, but it still put a huge dent in my disposable income...:wink:

Honestly, I don't think Black Widows are out of line. That's what the market will bear. In fact a lot of the premier customs cost more than a BW. Say what you will about them, they would not be so popular if they didn't make a good bow and back it up with good customer service. To say otherwise implies that the thousands of archers that save up, buy, and love their BW bows are less than savvy.


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

The Widow we have will never leave. It's in the second half of this short video.


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## Flying Dutchman (Aug 7, 2008)

Good bows are expensive, due to the many hours of labour. I own a RER Vital, a Cari-bow Peregrine and a Whippenstick Phoenix. All expensive custom bows, but I never regretted spending the money on it.


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