# Regions in Louisiana



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Anybody planning on shooting the Regions shoot in LA this weekend?

Too far for me, but I'd appreciate a report on how it goes. I'd really like to see them succeed.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

No lousiana but iowa and maybe Indiana for me this year.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

No time we spend traveling this year will be with Asa 
Regions won't answer question about shoots so it makes it hard to support them


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

Yeah I'll be doing my traveling to that Asa pro ams.if I was to catch a regions on the way to or fro I mite stop and see what they all about


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

How was turn out


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## LIMBHANGER 36 (Aug 2, 2004)

treeman65 said:


> No time we spend traveling this year will be with Asa
> Regions won't answer question about shoots so it makes it hard to support them


This just about sums it for me as well. Ten days to get an answer to a simple question.... I replied to their one word answer with a question to get clarification within a few minutes and I still don't have a clear answer. Another 8 days and still no answer.... They don't seem to want to succeed!


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

https://regionsarchery.com/index.php?route=regions/scores&tournament_id=118

Scores are up. I heard 195 shooters, I haven't added these but it doesn't look like that many to me. 

Nice facility, our range was challenging terrain....and cold and windy.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

Looks like 191


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> https://regionsarchery.com/index.php?route=regions/scores&tournament_id=118
> 
> Scores are up. I heard 195 shooters, I haven't added these but it doesn't look like that many to me.
> 
> Nice facility, our range was challenging terrain....and cold and windy.


Looks more like an NFAA shoot with a class for everyone.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Sorry, but I don't think there's any way that having that many classes is going to help promote Regions.


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## eholguin13 (Nov 3, 2006)

Tmorelli how did you manage to shoot up with no bonus rings ? You are truly amazing lol.


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## dustinC (Feb 5, 2013)

Looks to be a lot of scores that don't add up according to the bonus count?


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

Bonus counts a funny because they are counting the center 11 also.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

outbackarcher said:


> Bonus counts a funny because they are counting the center 11 also.


So, they score 5, 8, 10, 11, and 12? Might as well throw in the 14's too....just to make it interesting.


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Waiting on the recurve pink fletching class.


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## hdrat (Mar 7, 2009)

BubbaDean1 said:


> Waiting on the recurve pink fletching class.


Patients Bubba, it will come soon.


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## CarbonExtreme (Jul 7, 2010)

Part of what hurt them was the weather. Entire city of Dallas and nearby region was all but shut down for several days this week. I know dozens who planned to go but had to cancel. Just too hard to travel.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

BubbaDean1 said:


> Waiting on the recurve pink fletching class.


Don't tell me you're gonna shoot it in a pink tutu???

YIKES!!


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

BubbaDean1 said:


> Waiting on the recurve pink fletching class.


So many classes I'm waiting for the stay home and mail in your card class...


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## eholguin13 (Nov 3, 2006)

Funny it use to be that everyone wanted there own little class. Now you get more options and it's the problem. Truth in the saying you can't please them all.


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

joseph mccluske said:


> so many classes i'm waiting for the stay home and mail in your card class...


+1 lol


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

eholguin13 said:


> Funny it use to be that everyone wanted there own little class. Now you get more options and it's the problem. Truth in the saying you can't please them all.


Too many classes is a real problem. With already poor attendance, they are so diluted, there is no upside to winning....no cash, no glory, and what does a win "prove"? This becomes a vicious cycle.... Why would someone fork out the cash and take the time to travel to shoots with no upside? They don't....and that has been proven several times now. 

Big fish, small pond. Hey, there's truth in that saying too.

Archers have a choice to make. Most operate at the extent of their time and money now. They're going where they get the most bang for their buck. Local archers shoot local tournaments for the lax rules and low costs. They aren't showing up to Regions with any reliability.


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## Jaliv92 (Apr 2, 2013)




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## eholguin13 (Nov 3, 2006)

tmorelli said:


> Too many classes is a real problem. With already poor attendance, they are so diluted, there is no upside to winning....no cash, no glory, and what does a win "prove"? This becomes a vicious cycle.... Why would someone fork out the cash and take the time to travel to shoots with no upside? They don't....and that has been proven several times now.
> 
> Big fish, small pond. Hey, there's truth in that saying too.
> 
> Archers have a choice to make. Most operate at the extent of their time and money now. They're going where they get the most bang for their buck. Local archers shoot local tournaments for the lax rules and low costs. They aren't showing up to Regions with any reliability.



So your telling me that the following classes which are the ONLY difference between the two organizations are killing attendance and money: 


Mens open extreme
Womens open extreme 
Limited open
Bowhunter Champion
Womens hunter extreme
Mens hunter extreme
Traditional long bow
and finally Young adult ladies open. The logic does not add up to me on that, 34 ASA classes 35 Regions classes listed on each of there respective web sites.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

I think its more complicated than that. You have to have a class that's fits all your shooters. Like the ASA does. But regions is trying to do all of it at once. Low attendance and too many classes dilute the classes horribly bad. 
What do they do now cut a bunch of classes? then a select few would cry they don't have "their" class. Those select cryers probably aren't going to attend anyway! I really hope the northern shoots work we don't have much asa style up here.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

eholguin13 said:


> So your telling me that the following classes which are the ONLY difference between the two organizations are killing attendance and money:
> 
> 
> Mens open extreme
> ...


No, it is far from the ONLY difference. I'd say the value proposition is off in other areas as well. Since I don't want to "bash" Regions and we're talking about the classes, what I mean to say is that the number of classes dilutes participation into so many small buckets, there is no incentive for many shooters to invest in these shoots.

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy.... you've got to have numbers to get numbers. Why do we plan our time off, plan our trips, save our money and then get in the truck to travel 12-20 hours to an ASA?.... because we know everyone else is too. We have some reasonable expectation of class participation and of the upside of winning. With Regions, we have no assurances. I've said it before, in this troubled/fledgling state, Regions would be better served to put a gauranteed minimum winnings in the core classes than to try to cater to new or obscure classes. Look at the money thrown at the novelty "bowhunter champion... or BH extreme....whatever" classes. You could take less $ out of pocket... say $400/200/100 as a minimum to the podium of Open B, K45 and Hunter and watch attendance spike because a large number of shooters instantly have an expectation of the rewards for going and playing the game well. When they actually show up in numbers, none of that guaranteed minimum even comes out of pocket, it comes from entry fees as it should.

I suppose I'm just contesting that you've got to draw the core attendees who have a history of actually going to tournaments before you invest in trying to draw new or non-existant shooters to a tournament (with no publicity). The existing shooters are the ones who would bring a new shooter to a tournament.... not a new class. Drawing new shooters is a novel idea and a noble cause but it doesn't seem to be working. Currently, Regions is asking the customer to take the risk (not that Regions doesn't have plenty of skin in the game) and the customer is obviously saying no.

Right now, the cost structure for the shooter is exactly the same as ASA....with a lesser product and lower potential upside. Regions has to compete to be the best offering and proximity alone doesn't seem to do it for any number of shooters.


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

eholguin13 said:


> So your telling me that the following classes which are the ONLY difference between the two organizations are killing attendance and money:
> 
> 
> Mens open extreme
> ...


Your math is a little off Regions offers 44 classes.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> No, it is far from the ONLY difference. I'd say the value proposition is off in other areas as well. Since I don't want to "bash" Regions and we're talking about the classes, what I mean to say is that the number of classes dilutes participation into so many small buckets, there is no incentive for many shooters to invest in these shoots.
> 
> This is a self-fulfilling prophecy.... you've got to have numbers to get numbers. Why do we plan our time off, plan our trips, save our money and then get in the truck to travel 12-20 hours to an ASA?.... because we know everyone else is too. We have some reasonable expectation of class participation and of the upside of winning. With Regions, we have no assurances. I've said it before, in this troubled/fledgling state, Regions would be better served to put a gauranteed minimum winnings in the core classes than to try to cater to new or obscure classes. Look at the money thrown at the novelty "bowhunter champion... or BH extreme....whatever" classes. You could take less $ out of pocket... say $400/200/100 as a minimum to the podium of Open B, K45 and Hunter and watch attendance spike because a large number of shooters instantly have an expectation of the rewards for going and playing the game well. When they actually show up in numbers, none of that guaranteed minimum even comes out of pocket, it comes from entry fees as it should.
> 
> ...


Good insight.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

tmorelli said:


> No, it is far from the ONLY difference. I'd say the value proposition is off in other areas as well. Since I don't want to "bash" Regions and we're talking about the classes, what I mean to say is that the number of classes dilutes participation into so many small buckets, there is no incentive for many shooters to invest in these shoots.
> 
> This is a self-fulfilling prophecy.... you've got to have numbers to get numbers. Why do we plan our time off, plan our trips, save our money and then get in the truck to travel 12-20 hours to an ASA?.... because we know everyone else is too. We have some reasonable expectation of class participation and of the upside of winning. With Regions, we have no assurances. I've said it before, in this troubled/fledgling state, Regions would be better served to put a gauranteed minimum winnings in the core classes than to try to cater to new or obscure classes. Look at the money thrown at the novelty "bowhunter champion... or BH extreme....whatever" classes. You could take less $ out of pocket... say $400/200/100 as a minimum to the podium of Open B, K45 and Hunter and watch attendance spike because a large number of shooters instantly have an expectation of the rewards for going and playing the game well. When they actually show up in numbers, none of that guaranteed minimum even comes out of pocket, it comes from entry fees as it should.
> 
> ...


All valid points Tony.

It also comes down to a simple supply and demand scenario. Too many "national events" not enough national event shooters. The past two years Regions has attempted to market all their events in established ASA & IBO areas. In these areas there is a relatively finite number of 3D archers. There is a smaller group of these 3D archers that choose to go to "national events". Most of these shooters do not have the time and money to support a third national 3D tour. These shooters have chosen to spend their time and money with the two established 3D organizations (ASA & IBO) where they know that they will have a quality 3D experience.

I think the Davenport, Iowa venue is a step in the right direction. Arizona, California and the Pacific Northwest have a lot of shooters and no national 3D events other than Redding. Could this be the "region" that Regions should be concentrating upon?

Here in Texas our average ASA state qualifier has more shooters than a Regions pro/am. I noticed that Regions has scheduled an event in the heart of our Texas ASA area. I am sure that they are trying to tap into the shooter pool we have worked hard to establish in Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas. Will this work? I don't know. I do know it has not worked so far. 

Let me pose a question. If you had the time and money to attend one national shoot in the Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas area......Would you go to the ASA Pro/Am in Paris, Texas with 1200+ shooters, all the regular vendors, all the regular pros at a great venue or the Regions pro/am in Round Rock, Texas with maybe 100 to 200 shooters, no vendors, and at an unproven shoot site?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

As a side note, the 11 ring scoring is a joke. A gimmick. 

I find it ridiculous that you can miss what you are aiming at....and be rewarded....but another shooter can miss what he's aiming at and not be. You can't just miss high...you have to miss high and forward. At least make it so any ring has to be called, or run it only centers or something. 

Regions has got to quit changing the rules daily. Last year payouts changed. This year, the new scoring system. Last year, membership was reduced for some and not others.... Now, I just saw on Facebook that they are charging $10 membership at West Monroe. We were charged $30 this weekend. 

This weekend, they decided at the last minute to announce that K45 would have a shoot off.... I don't mean, right before the shoot... I mean they announced it with 5 targets left in the tournament. 

All of our shooters cards said Saturday started at noon. At 11:30 while several were already sitting at range entrances, freezing their butts off, it was announced (at the registration booth) that shooting wouldn't start until 1....which of course was more like 1:30. 

Part of me feels sorry for Dick. I'd like to see success if only for the sake of competitive archery as a whole, but something has got to give.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Maybe ......someone should get involved and knows a little about the way a structured event should flow.....maybe someone that lives relatively close to dick......could there be that someone? ???


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> Maybe ......someone should get involved and knows a little about the way a structured event should flow.....maybe someone that lives relatively close to dick......could there be that someone? ???


But Tim, I don't live next door to him!...if that's what you had in mind.

You on the other hand.... :wink:


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## LIMBHANGER 36 (Aug 2, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> As a side note, the 11 ring scoring is a joke. A gimmick.
> 
> I find it ridiculous that you can miss what you are aiming at....and be rewarded....but another shooter can miss what he's aiming at and not be. You can't just miss high...you have to miss high and forward. At least make it so any ring has to be called, or run it only centers or something.
> 
> ...


I wasn't able to make the shoot but by the sounds of it I'm glad I didn't.... This organization needs to get it's act together quickly. Communication would be a good start.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

It seems that I misunderstood the FB post about membership costs. 

You have an option to pay a $10 membership for just one shoot, or a $30 membership for the year. 

That said, it would've been nice to know that at registration. I have little or no intention of shooting more of them so I'm out $20.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> It seems that I misunderstood the FB post about membership costs.
> 
> You have an option to pay a $10 membership for just one shoot, or a $30 membership for the year.
> 
> That said, it would've been nice to know that at registration. I have little or no intention of shooting more of them so I'm out $20.


what about the shoot in Sweetwater. ...that's not far from ya.......and Bronson ....you can do a week long vacation with bree and kids....Bronson.....to Columbus. ....a family archery tournament tour


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> what about the shoot in Sweetwater. ...that's not far from ya.......and Bronson ....you can do a week long vacation with bree and kids....Bronson.....to Columbus. ....a family archery tournament tour


Family archery tournament tour is much more quality time spent at Asa Regions refuses to answer question and abandoned their original offer of shoots


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I haven't even looked at Regions tournament schedule this year..... IBO has big tournaments that are actually closer to me than ASA shoots. So if by chance I find the time to go to a shoot other than ASA's it will be an established IBO tournament.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> Maybe ......someone should get involved and knows a little about the way a structured event should flow.....maybe someone that lives relatively close to dick......could there be that someone? ???


I don't think Michael Marlow is interested.


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## ProtecMan (Apr 14, 2003)

tmorelli said:


> No, it is far from the ONLY difference. I'd say the value proposition is off in other areas as well. Since I don't want to "bash" Regions and we're talking about the classes, what I mean to say is that the number of classes dilutes participation into so many small buckets, there is no incentive for many shooters to invest in these shoots.
> 
> This is a self-fulfilling prophecy.... you've got to have numbers to get numbers. Why do we plan our time off, plan our trips, save our money and then get in the truck to travel 12-20 hours to an ASA?.... because we know everyone else is too. We have some reasonable expectation of class participation and of the upside of winning. With Regions, we have no assurances. I've said it before, in this troubled/fledgling state, Regions would be better served to put a gauranteed minimum winnings in the core classes than to try to cater to new or obscure classes. Look at the money thrown at the novelty "bowhunter champion... or BH extreme....whatever" classes. You could take less $ out of pocket... say $400/200/100 as a minimum to the podium of Open B, K45 and Hunter and watch attendance spike because a large number of shooters instantly have an expectation of the rewards for going and playing the game well. When they actually show up in numbers, none of that guaranteed minimum even comes out of pocket, it comes from entry fees as it should.
> 
> ...


Well put Tony. Hopefully the powers at be are listening to the input of shooters such as yourself and Regions will continue evolving.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I just don't know if the amount of money to be won has a lot to do with it, Pro's not shooting because of money is understandable. If you look at a class at any ASA tournament you will probably have about 100 people in the class. Only about 15 percent of the people in any class has a real chance of winning. Of course even a blind hog will find an acorn but most will never win.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

jimb said:


> I just don't know if the amount of money to be won has a lot to do with it, Pro's not shooting because of money is understandable. If you look at a class at any ASA tournament you will probably have about 100 people in the class. Only about 15 percent of the people in any class has a real chance of winning. Of course even a blind hog will find an acorn but most will never win.


If I was in it for the $$$ I'd never go to an ASA shoot...I go just to aggravate the other geezers who are astounded that anybody could be as inept with a bow and arrow as I am.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

carlosii said:


> If I was in it for the $$$ I'd never go to an ASA shoot...I go just to aggravate the other geezers who are astounded that anybody could be as inept with a bow and arrow as I am.


Hey, I'm a geezer guy


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

jimb said:


> Hey, I'm a geezer guy


Have I ever had the chance to aggravate you at an ASA shoot?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Come on Carlosii......whom haven't you annoyed. Besides me of course


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

I have my own quarrels with Regions, primarily a HUGE lack communication and changing rules. You just can't do this as a professional organization. I agree with Tony as well, they need to give the shooters incentive for traveling to their shoots. BUT, they can't change their mind when the shooters arrive that the "guaranteed" payout is not going to be paid.


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