# Why Open C was converted to K40?



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

ASA's Open C class has been a "novice" class with one day being unknown distance targets and the other day being known distance targets. This class has been a feeder class to both K45 and Open B. Now that Open C (K40) is an all known distance class it will primarily be a feeder class to K45. Open B has always been a major step up from competing in Open C. Now Open B will be an even larger leap moving from K40 (formerly Open C). I'm not so sure this will be a good thing in the future for the higher unknown distance classes Open B, Open A or even Semi-Pro. Is this the 1st step towards unknown distance 3D becoming the step child of Known distance 3D? Ultimately is this the 1st step towards the top 3D class being "Pro Known"? Will we one day have a FITA face pasted on the McKjunks? Is 3D devolving instead of evolving?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Sad day


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

K50 and Open Pro are darn near the same thing either way. Go watch the Pro's shoot, they know the yardage, so what's the difference? Very rarely do you see a large gap in the grouping of arrows on a target on the pro range. Even in a know class you still have to execute the shot.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Known 45 is growing. Looks like the future may be just that, known yardage. 

And I have never understood tacking yardages on any class, not when most all that shoot club 3Ds range out 50 yards, depending on the club or who happens to set the targets. Except for the younger shooters I think it should 45 yards for all ASA classes, giving the Known 50 it's place.

Bow Novice, 30 yards known. Yep, see them shooting at our club with a max of 45 yards - supposed to be a max of 45 and I've seen 50. Super Senior that I am, I shoot 45 yards and more and have since day one when I returned to archery, late 1999 was my first ever 3D. Of NFAA clubs, women shoot the same yardage as men, 45 yards and more.

I can name a dozen clubs that have longer yardages than as per ASA class and only one club holds to a max of 40 yards trying to cover the majority of ASA classes. Of all the 3D clubs around me, one has a "Range Finder" class. Another clubs allows ranger finders for the standard ASA classes. Except for the one club, all clubs have only unknown distances. One club allows a range finder, but you can't turn in your score. And except for the one club all other clubs have either NFAA or IBO classes.
At the one club that has ASA classes, there is always confusion when registering - what's Hunter, what's Bow Novice, Open what?


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

i think it will PUSH out the people from C and bring them to the '''real'' way of 3d archery.....the money is not changing....so the payout ladder of $300 over the course of the year is still the same.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Known 45 is growing. Looks like the future may be just that, known yardage.
> 
> And I have never understood tacking yardages on any class, not when most all that shoot club 3Ds range out 50 yards, depending on the club or who happens to set the targets. Except for the younger shooters I think it should 45 yards for all ASA classes, giving the Known 50 it's place.
> 
> ...


Sonny,, I have no clue as to why the clubs you say cant tell the rules about class a to class b ......The rules are VERY EASY a child can understand them....
We don't have rules like you cant have this...you cant have that....your only allowed so many pins for this....not for that..... have to have this kind of point or screw in .....

Come on Sonny....get with the times here......ASA is the TOP .....  
WE are the ONLY association that is associated with college archery....the ONLY assoication affilated with 3d for schools.... the only association that listens to its shooters (as well as regions) ....


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> i think it will PUSH out the people from C and bring them to the '''real'' way of 3d archery.....the money is not changing....so the payout ladder of $300 over the course of the year is still the same.


 What?

Are you saying you believe "real" 3D is Known distance targets?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Open C is Bow Novice for movable sights. 

No one is concerned that Bow Novice is all known?... and the next logical step after that is 10 yards longer and half/half.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Open C is 40
and Open B is 45


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I agree with tmorelli, there is little to no concern that open c is all known. Just last summer I was a solid shooter who only shot local shoots and I decided to come to asa for the first time, within minutes of talking to my local shooters they told me I was a open b shooter with my ability that could finish top ten. I shot open b and finished top ten twice, the asa shooters in your area can lead you to your appropriate class and open c is a novice class for a guy with a open bow setup.


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## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

I think it's a pretty good idea. Someone just starting out in competitive Archery, I believe, would be much more confident not having to judge yardage. After getting your feet wet, and maybe
doing well enough to move up a class, I believe a shooter would stick with the sport longer. Starting with known yardage, and progressing to unknown yardage,(if you choose to) I believe would be a kinder learning curve.


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## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

I think it's a pretty good idea. Someone just starting out in competitive Archery, I believe, would be much more confident not having to judge yardage. After getting your feet wet, and maybe
doing well enough to move up a class, I believe a shooter would stick with the sport longer. Starting with known yardage, and progressing to unknown yardage,(if you choose to) I believe would be a kinder learning curve.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

I have a couple/few questions for you guys...not trying to hijack the thread but it is related to the topic. This year I shot bow novice. I didn't really do that well in the shoots in the class, but I gave myself one season in B.N. and now that season is over. I have been trying to decide which way to go from here. I've never shot with an "open setup" but really don't want to stick with fixed pins...so that makes me not want to go Hunter class; I'm not that great at judging yardage anyway. I just bought a used target sight and scope...so I will then have part of an Open setup, minus the stabilizer and weights, etc. 

So the question I have is...what class do you think I should go to? If I barely made top 20s @ ASA Pro/Ams in B.N....I feel I don't have much of a snowball's chance in K45. I can't shoot scores like they do in that class, even at 30 yards max...so stretching them out over 15 more yards sure ain't gonna help me shoot any better. With the announcement of the Open C going to be all known, 40 yard max...that was appealing to me to try, and I thought it would be a challenge for me since it would be my first crack with a target sight, and 10 more yards over what I've been shooting....but the way you guys are talking about Open C, should I even give it a thought, or should I just bypass it because next year will be my 2nd year in ASA and I wont be a novice anymore?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Crow T, 

It sounds like you are a perfect candidate to Open C to me. I say go give it a whirl and have a blast.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Turner27 (Aug 28, 2011)

Open C would be a great class for you to start out in. Especially since it will be all known now. I enjoyed C while I was there with the half and half layout. I am by no means a dot shooter which most of your known classes are loaded with which made me like the layout more bc you could pretty much watch the leaderboard flip flop from one round to the next when dot shooters had to start judging yardage. To me C was good the way it was. Now you have alot of people that will be in that class that dont have a chance in this world without having an advantage if they are good at judging yardage. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bhtr3d said:


> Sonny,, I have no clue as to why the clubs you say cant tell the rules about class a to class b ......The rules are VERY EASY a child can understand them....
> We don't have rules like you cant have this...you cant have that....your only allowed so many pins for this....not for that..... have to have this kind of point or screw in .....
> 
> Come on Sonny....get with the times here......ASA is the TOP .....
> WE are the ONLY association that is associated with college archery....the ONLY assoication affilated with 3d for schools.... the only association that listens to its shooters (as well as regions) ....


bhtr3d,
It ain't me. It's just the way it is up here. These may be ASA clubs, but they all began under other organizations, NFAA being the most of and a few IBO. I shoot at many of these clubs and here is my class, Super Senior, at these clubs; Special Equipment (club rule), Unlimited (old NFAA class name), MBO (IBO), Open (club and ASA), FreeStyle (present NFAA class name). One club began as IBO, shot mainly NFAA events for a long, long time, and now a ASA club it still holds to IBO classes. Another club, gone recently, had Sponsored Class as a class if you had a long stabilizer or movable sight. Yep, wear a sponsors's shirt and you were deemed a Pro and Special Class is where you were placed.

These clubs have no reason to change classes or stakes, except if hosting a Qualifier, a once a year thing.
One ASA club will be celebrating it's 64th anniversary next year and has had NFAA classes continually. Another ASA club is celebrating it's 25th anniversary this very year. It has 3 stakes, Adults, Traditional and Kids. How do you change them to ASA rules? With a whip and chair?

The one club that is trying to be ASA as much as it can, it's been trying almost since day one of becoming a ASA club. I know because I got them to go with ASA. I was invited and sat in their meeting for the discussion of such, going ASA. They have all McKenzie targets to go with their "try." And ASA shooters are shooting Rinehart targets elsewhere. I know darned well you've read of this in the ASA forums as I posted of such. Yep, club set the state record for attendance of a State Championship last year, 97, and their next 3D had maybe 25 shooters and me being the only ASA member there, except for the club's ASA members. Set a state record and then shafted this year, which I have in the ASA forums.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Crow Terminator said:


> I have a couple/few questions for you guys...not trying to hijack the thread but it is related to the topic. This year I shot bow novice. I didn't really do that well in the shoots in the class, but I gave myself one season in B.N. and now that season is over. I have been trying to decide which way to go from here. I've never shot with an "open setup" but really don't want to stick with fixed pins...so that makes me not want to go Hunter class; I'm not that great at judging yardage anyway. I just bought a used target sight and scope...so I will then have part of an Open setup, minus the stabilizer and weights, etc.
> 
> So the question I have is...what class do you think I should go to? If I barely made top 20s @ ASA Pro/Ams in B.N....I feel I don't have much of a snowball's chance in K45. I can't shoot scores like they do in that class, even at 30 yards max...so stretching them out over 15 more yards sure ain't gonna help me shoot any better. With the announcement of the Open C going to be all known, 40 yard max...that was appealing to me to try, and I thought it would be a challenge for me since it would be my first crack with a target sight, and 10 more yards over what I've been shooting....but the way you guys are talking about Open C, should I even give it a thought, or should I just bypass it because next year will be my 2nd year in ASA and I wont be a novice anymore?




Open c would be fi e for you to shoot. In


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

bhtr3d said:


> Sonny,, I have no clue as to why the clubs you say cant tell the rules about class a to class b ......The rules are VERY EASY a child can understand them....
> We don't have rules like you cant have this...you cant have that....your only allowed so many pins for this....not for that..... have to have this kind of point or screw in .....
> 
> Come on Sonny....get with the times here......ASA is the TOP .....
> WE are the ONLY association that is associated with college archery....the ONLY assoication affilated with 3d for schools.... the only association that listens to its shooters (as well as regions) ....


Please define being the ONLY assn associated with college archery.....since I know of at least 6 college archery clubs that have NAA or NFAA affiliations....and NAA is used for college archery club events.....of course I dont know of anywhere that archery is a letter sport, and is only club level at most of the colleges now.....


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

easy.....us collegiate archery.....has partnered up.....


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

bhtr3d said:


> easy.....us collegiate archery.....has partnered up.....



So they have dropped their USA archery/FITA stuff?


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Some of us can't shoot fast enough arrows to help with yardage misjudging. Most people have rangefinders that hunt. I never range a deer, just around the area to trees etc.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Bottomline the scores will go through the roof and no novice archer will have a chance of placing in Open C.

DB


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Bottomline the scores will go through the roof and no novice archer will have a chance of placing in Open C.
> 
> DB


Just because its all known? Are you saying that one day of unknown was a great equalizer?

Everyone with a successful history is ineligible. Everyone who finds success there will get kicked out. I don't see the problem.... at least not beyond what we have now.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

tmorelli said:


> Just because its all known? Are you saying that one day of unknown was a great equalizer?
> 
> Everyone with a successful history is ineligible. Everyone who finds success there will get kicked out. I don't see the problem.... at least not beyond what we have now.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



Im saying it not going to be a novice class! Yes known is easier than having to judge distance. Scores will immediately show it not a class for the novice archer IMO. Half and half made more sense to me. Wish there was a way to actually have a true novice class for the novice archers. Always those with many years of exsperiance shooting novice. I myself never started in bottom class for the reasons I just listed.

DB


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Yes known is easier than having to judge distance. Scores will immediately show it not a class for the novice archer IMO.


Is bow novice a class for novice archers?

Why will Open C be any less of a novice class than it is now? If known is "easier" doesn't that make it better suited for novices?

The guys we assume will shoot these big scores.... how long will they be in the class? Where are they now? Is there a never ending supply of sandbaggers waiting their opportunity to shoot Open C, win out and quit the sport?

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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

We're just rambling here. Shouldn't we look at Open C shooters to see how long they have been in Open C? The win out money is still the same. Like tmorelli, they going to win out of Open C and quit?

And then, maybe ASA wants a test to see how things go. About like the new speed limit, no one complained so it stays...


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Daniel Boone said:


> Bottomline the scores will go through the roof and no novice archer will have a chance of placing in Open C.
> 
> DB


i agree DB...Pro Novice, excuse me, Bow Novice is populated by folks who have no business in that class. i think we'll be hearing the same complaints about the new open c that we hear about Pro Novice...oops, there i go again...Bow Novice.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

carlosii said:


> i agree DB...Pro Novice, excuse me, Bow Novice is populated by folks who have no business in that class. i think we'll be hearing the same complaints about the new open c that we hear about Pro Novice...oops, there i go again...Bow Novice.


There you go, State Directors and the upper ASA Honchos have the power to remove them from Pro...Bow Novice or any other class for that matter. So who's really the blame?

Yeah and look what they did to Carlos. Moved him out of Super Senior and shoved him in Master Senior


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Daniel Boone said:


> Im saying it not going to be a novice class! Yes known is easier than having to judge distance. Scores will immediately show it not a class for the novice archer IMO. Half and half made more sense to me. Wish there was a way to actually have a true novice class for the novice archers. Always those with many years of exsperiance shooting novice. I myself never started in bottom class for the reasons I just listed.
> 
> DB





Daniel Boone said:


> Bottomline the scores will go through the roof and no novice archer will have a chance of placing in Open C.
> 
> DB


DB, having Open C being all known distance is not going to really change the make up of the class. Open C each year has had people signing up that were far from novice. But the low win out standard kept people moving through. Nothing is going to change in that regard. There are generally two lines of thought about the novice classes. One is that you are "novice" in ASA regardless of your experience until you "win out". the second line of thought is that you have to be a "3D and archery novice" to shoot in a novice class. I have heard very experienced and seasoned upper class ASA members say the first.

I'm just wondering if Open C should have remained half and half making it a "feeder" class for both Open B and K45. Making it all known distance I think will ultimately, over some years, make it a feeder class to K45 with few making the jump to Open B. As it is Open B is a huge jump up from Open C and soon it will be an even larger leap! However, the guys that are good at yardage guessing will also have to become stronger shooters in K40. The fact is yardage guessing accuracy is not as critical in a 40 yard class as it is in a 45 yard class.

"Novice" should be removed from the definition of K40 (formerly Open C). That would clear a lot up. As we all know it is NOT a "true" bow novice class.



Crow Terminator said:


> I have a couple/few questions for you guys...not trying to hijack the thread but it is related to the topic. This year I shot bow novice. I didn't really do that well in the shoots in the class, but I gave myself one season in B.N. and now that season is over. I have been trying to decide which way to go from here. I've never shot with an "open setup" but really don't want to stick with fixed pins...so that makes me not want to go Hunter class; I'm not that great at judging yardage anyway. I just bought a used target sight and scope...so I will then have part of an Open setup, minus the stabilizer and weights, etc.
> 
> So the question I have is...what class do you think I should go to? If I barely made top 20s @ ASA Pro/Ams in B.N....I feel I don't have much of a snowball's chance in K45. I can't shoot scores like they do in that class, even at 30 yards max...so stretching them out over 15 more yards sure ain't gonna help me shoot any better. With the announcement of the Open C going to be all known, 40 yard max...that was appealing to me to try, and I thought it would be a challenge for me since it would be my first crack with a target sight, and 10 more yards over what I've been shooting....but the way you guys are talking about Open C, should I even give it a thought, or should I just bypass it because next year will be my 2nd year in ASA and I wont be a novice anymore?


Crow T, you are exactly the person that should be shooting Open C. Let's say one day you clean house in some very challenging state or local 3D tournaments. When you next sign up for a big ASA tournament you think whether you should shoot Open C or "move up" prior to winning out. Of course if you first realize you have made a big jump in improvement at an ASA event the decision will be made for you by winning out.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Open C is all known know??


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Babyk said:


> Open C is all known know??


yup.....


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Babyk said:


> Open C is all known know??


gotta stay with the program Babyk or you risk getting left behind...Open C will be all known next year...and 40 yards too. it could turn out to be a turkey shoot for sure.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Back to the original question......

"Why was Open C converted to K40" ?

Well, Open C has not been converted to K40. It is still *Open C* class. *Open C* class will be shot all known both days at Pro/Am events and all known at state level events in 2014.

Kent. You can type K40 (formerly Open C) until your finger tips are bloody if you choose to do so, but the class will still be called *Open C*.:teeth:

Now to answer your question......

The simple answer.....Mike Tyrell wanted to give it a try. He asked our opinion at the state directors meeting in Cullman. We discussed the pros and cons. We took a vote. The decision was unanimous in favor for. Done deal. Out of over 20 state and regional directors no one opposed the idea.

Mike is is always looking for ways to attract more shooters and make shooting more enjoyable. As you all know the known distance element has been a huge success for ASA. The K45 class has become the largest class at ASA Pro/Ams and at most state level events. If it does not work out *Open C* can easily be changed back to 1/2 and 1/2 for 2015. I see *Open C* as a all known class being very popular. Most of the posts on this thread agree. I salute Mike for thinking "outside the box" and trying new ideas. 

Tracy and I were at the directors meeting at the Classic in 2006 when Mike announced the introduction of known distance into the ASA format. Fists were slammed down on the table, people walked out of the meeting shouting phrases like "This will ruin 3D forever" .......and now the greatest participation is in the known distance and 1/2 and 1/2 classes. A lot of the naysayers at that meeting for one reason or another are not around anymore.....but known distance is still here, growing and thriving.

The career path of a shooter could go like this. 

Bow Novice (notice this class is not called K30:smile, Open C, K45, K50

or 

Bow Novice, Hunter, Open C, Open B, Open A, Semi Pro

or 

Bow Novice, Hunter, Unlimited, Open B, Open A, Semi Pro

I am an unknown distance guy like most of the older shooters. When ASA went to 1/2 known and 1/2 unknown I did not really like it, but I did not pick up my toys and go home......a few did. I used the known distance element to strengthen my unknown game. Judge it, range it, learn from you success or failure. I feel this is how Open C can be used for a shooter planning to move into Open B. Open C all known will give a shooter transitioning from pins to Open an opportunity to adjust to the ins and outs of using a scope without the pressure of judging.

On the subject of a competitor shooting 60 up. So what....there will be someone right there at 59 up pushing them. The top shooters will get bumped just like they do now.

Please click on the link below and read the first post. These are exactly my sentiments and I could have not said it better.

http://www.asaarchery.com/IP/vb4/showthread.php?111-Thanks-ASA-for-a-great-year


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

http://www.asaarchery.com/IP/vb4/showthread.php?111-Thanks-ASA-for-a-great-year

Junior member..... :set1_rolf2:


??? Dang! So am I! :angry:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

SonnyThomas said:


> http://www.asaarchery.com/IP/vb4/showthread.php?111-Thanks-ASA-for-a-great-year
> 
> Junior member..... :set1_rolf2:
> 
> ...


don't know what you're laughing at Sonny...i clicked the link and it says file not found.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Im wondering when orange dots will be added to help archers hit the 3d targets easier.


How about a K30 class? Imigine how many would jump on that!

Sure it would be a large class if they had it! Works for Redding for many years.
DB


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

carlosii said:


> don't know what you're laughing at Sonny...i clicked the link and it says file not found.


http://www.asaarchery.com/IP/vb4/showthread.php?111-Thanks-ASA-for-a-great-year

Heck if I know. Clicked copy shortcut and that's what got pasted.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Still don't like it. Mainly because it's the class I shoot in. I can't shoot good enough to win in that class as it is, but I do ENJOY the challenge of judging yardage.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

sagecreek said:


> Still don't like it. Mainly because it's the class I shoot in. I can't shoot good enough to win in that class as it is, but I do ENJOY the challenge of judging yardage.


I totally understand. If Super Sr. went all known I would have even more trouble competing simply because there are some better pure shooters than me in that class. 

If it is not popular with the shooters next year it will go back to 1/2 and 1/2.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Well, it is what it is. I'll stay in that class until I can win out, if ever. Of course, what am I thinking, I can shoot Senior class next year! lain:


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

About averaging 100 in Open C. So how many wins and it's move out time? 2?


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

SonnyThomas said:


> About averaging 100 in Open C. So how many wins and it's move out time? 2?


That's about the numbers bow novice has been running. 7th-10th place would still get a person $120-140 based on those numbers. So with a $300 immediate win out limit...it wouldn't take long for a good shooter to hit that even if they never got a podium finish....basically a couple top 10s and they are out. Especially if the numbers go up in the class.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Crow Terminator said:


> That's about the numbers bow novice has been running. 7th-10th place would still get a person $120-140 based on those numbers. So with a $300 immediate win out limit...it wouldn't take long for a good shooter to hit that even if they never got a podium finish....basically a couple top 10s and they are out. Especially if the numbers go up in the class.


If true, then turn over in Open C will take place sooner.... Say 3 even 4 top 10s and it's move out. I don't know how to sandbag, so looking at this sandbagging would take not shooting. Right?


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

sagecreek said:


> Still don't like it. Mainly because it's the class I shoot in. I can't shoot good enough to win in that class as it is, but I do ENJOY the challenge of judging yardage.


Well do not use the rangefinder judge it for yourself


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

SonnyThomas said:


> If true, then turn over in Open C will take place sooner.... Say 3 even 4 top 10s and it's move out. I don't know how to sandbag, so looking at this sandbagging would take not shooting. Right?


Yep. I think that's why they ain't worried about sandbagging....there really ain't a way you could do it if you shoot really good, unless you intentionally shoot bad to keep from placing in the top 10. Go look at the ASA website for "past tournament results" and it will give you the amount won for each shoot, in each class, per how many people it paid out. Typically with 100-115 shooters in the class, the winnings are about $120 for 12-13th place...and starts to rise the closer to the top you get. Especially for 4th-6th. So like I said in the earlier post...a person can have a couple of good shoots and finish off the podium, but still hit the $300 winout point. If they win one...they are pretty much out @ that. If they podium finish in any shoot....then place another top 20, they are gonna be out.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Tallcatt said:


> Back to the original question......
> 
> "Why was Open C converted to K40" ?
> 
> ...


I have said time and again the ASA is a top notch organization! They are creative, customer friendly and willing to try "new" stuff. I don't think for one moment that making Open C (is that better?) all known will have a seriously detrimental effect on 3D. I'm only suggesting that it _may _have an impact on the "unknown" higher classes over time. Still not really a big deal. The folks really complaining about all known distance targets in Open C most likely don't have the shooting skills to advance beyond Open C to an even longer distance class and be even modestly successful (top 25%). All Known Open C may put more folks into shooting K45 and then over time into K50. The guys that do well in the upper classes shoot known distance pretty darn well. shooting all know Open C will help some guys improve their shooting skills because they won't have "may yardage was off" as an excuse. I expect Open C to really grow as an all known distance class and not decrease in size.



sagecreek said:


> Well, it is what it is. I'll stay in that class until I can win out, if ever. Of course, what am I thinking, I can shoot Senior class next year! lain:


Senior class is where I will most likely be playing next year. If I was a better shot I wouldn't mind K50 but the challenge of learning to be a decent yardage guesser again should be interesting and the likely hood of me significantly improving my shot is unlikely though there is plenty of room.



Crow Terminator said:


> That's about the numbers bow novice has been running. 7th-10th place would still get a person $120-140 based on those numbers. So with a $300 immediate win out limit...it wouldn't take long for a good shooter to hit that even if they never got a podium finish....basically a couple top 10s and they are out. Especially if the numbers go up in the class.


With the high number of participants it doesn't take much to win out of K45 while never coming close to the podium. I really wanted at least one podium finish but my poor skills kept under mining my awesomeness...........


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

If all goes well the ASA will continue growing and maybe one day there will be a K40 AND Open C will go back to being half and half. Maybe Open B will be all unknown distance......... With enough archers playing the game who knows where it will go. As it stands now the ASA unlike the IBO and the NFAA will be there to provide whatever the customers want. 

IF Open B was one day all unknown distance I think folks shooting out of K45 should be allowed to shoot Open B. In my mind going from K45 to Open A or higher as it is now is a real big jump. Luckily I have Senior Open as an option. I don't think for a moment I'll make waves in Senior Open!!!!!!


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

Daniel Boone said:


> Im wondering when orange dots will be added to help archers hit the 3d targets easier.
> DB


Wouldn't matter if they placed a neon orange sticker on a target, you would still have to execute the shot. 

Field Tournaments have dots to aim at and I haven't seen many perfect scores in NFAA competition from the average Joe. lol Heck, even the folks on Nock Out can't hit a dot at 65 yards. hahahahahaha


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

Open c was all unknown at one time


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

STRICNINE said:


> Wouldn't matter if they placed a neon orange sticker on a target, you would still have to execute the shot.
> 
> Field Tournaments have dots to aim at and I haven't seen many perfect scores in NFAA competition from the average Joe. lol Heck, even the folks on Nock Out can't hit a dot at 65 yards. hahahahahaha


Redding is bigger than any ASA and it's all known and has orange spots.... oh, and they don't shoot McKenzie's.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Luv2shoot3D said:


> Open c was all unknown at one time


Circa 2006 every class in ASA was unknown.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

STRICNINE said:


> Wouldn't matter if they placed a neon orange sticker on a target, you would still have to execute the shot.
> 
> Field Tournaments have dots to aim at and I haven't seen many perfect scores in NFAA competition from the average Joe. lol Heck, even the folks on Nock Out can't hit a dot at 65 yards. hahahahahaha


Your correct. I believe it was shot one point down this year. One target was missed. 
DB


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## huntelk (Jan 11, 2004)

I can't think of one of my hunting buddies that goes afield without a rangefinder. We archers as a whole are evolving away from judging yardage with our eyes and have become dependent on technology. It is only a matter of time before all 3-d competition follows this path. I would be willing to bet that k50 will surpass pro unknown before 2010.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

huntelk said:


> I can't think of one of my hunting buddies that goes afield without a rangefinder. We archers as a whole are evolving away from judging yardage with our eyes and have become dependent on technology. It is only a matter of time before all 3-d competition follows this path. *I would be willing to bet that k50 will surpass pro unknown before **2010*.


I'll take that bet.............. you lost! You can Paypal me the $1,000. :becky:


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

huntelk said:


> I can't think of one of my hunting buddies that goes afield without a rangefinder. We archers as a whole are evolving away from judging yardage with our eyes and have become dependent on technology. It is only a matter of time before all 3-d competition follows this path. I would be willing to bet that k50 will surpass pro unknown before 2010.





Kstigall said:


> I'll take that bet.............. you lost! You can Paypal me the $1,000. :becky:


Judge Thomas ruling; Though possibly a typo error the Poster had adquate time to edit/correct and therefore the "bet" stands. But, due to no amount stipulated the claim of Kstigall is denied


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## huntelk (Jan 11, 2004)

Yes, typo for sure. Thats what i get for posting from my phone. Supposed to be 2020. I suppose you want me to PayPal that as a "gift" too!


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## jbeasleyshoot (Jan 29, 2008)

I like the unknown yardage aspect of 3D I guess I'm just old fashioned but I tried the open C thing this year and it was fun because of the guys I shot with but to get better I think I'm skipping the open B class since its basically the same. As C and going to A. I however can see why they did go all known but why only make the max 40yds. If you know the distance how hard is it to hit animal at. 50yds. Why not do K50 a,b, and C?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

If they truly wanted to give the archers what they want, quit putting the shoving the known distance crap down everyone's throat. Have a Known 40, 45, 50, whatever and apparently a Known Bowhunter (Bow Novice).

Make C and B all unknown again. JMO.


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

This is what I say sagecreek


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

sagecreek said:


> If they truly wanted to give the archers what they want, quit putting the shoving the known distance crap down everyone's throat. Have a Known 40, 45, 50, whatever and apparently a Known Bowhunter (Bow Novice).
> 
> Make C and B all unknown again. JMO.


This


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> If they truly wanted to give the archers what they want, quit putting the shoving the known distance crap down everyone's throat. Have a Known 40, 45, 50, whatever and apparently a Known Bowhunter (Bow Novice).
> 
> Make C and B all unknown again. JMO.





toypar said:


> This is what I say sagecreek





wpk said:


> This


You guys refuse to acknowledge that the Known distance classes have literally exploded in participation! When they created K45 no one was required to sign up yet many of this years tournaments had over 120 archers in K45 some had 140+. You can fight it all you want with your local shoots but the writing is on the wall!

However, I hope one day to see an Open C (unknown) AND a K40 class. As it is yardage judging classes may be seriously shrinking over time. Of course it is NOT going to happen in just a year or two. 

Personally, I found K45 much less interesting this year without the 14 in play. Without yardage guessing AND no 14 ring the game is a LOT less interesting. I half way expected the ASA to bring the 14 back next year in some classes but the way the McKenzie targets have been Deltatized it may not be possible. The targets can't handle a decent number of shots especially since the current targets get "marked" so easily. The 14 ring would be nothing more than a spot shoot after a few groups....... It would suck to be the first group on black targets.


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