# Hot melt with all carbon arrows?



## AAinCal (Mar 3, 2008)

How bad an idea is this? I was hoping to experiment with point weights on some all carbon arrows (CX nanos). Are they really that much more sensitive to heat than carbon/aluminum arrows? Should I just stick with epoxy?


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Not a bad idea at all. Hot melt works well in my Nanos.

Edit: Just don't apply flame to the shaft. Melt the hot melt, smear it on the point, re-heat the hot melt on the point just enough to slide the point into the shaft.


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## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

I use hot melt in everything because it allows me the flexability to change points if needed.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

TER said:


> Not a bad idea at all. Hot melt works well in my Nanos.
> 
> Edit: Just don't apply flame to the shaft. Melt the hot melt, smear it on the point, re-heat the hot melt on the point just enough to slide the point into the shaft.


I haven't tried hot melt on my Nano's yet. But I am sure I will shortly. A buddy of mine didn't have good results with hot melt.

BUT I have never had a problem using it on any and all shafts. I used it last year on my McKinney IIs with zero problems.


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## Erich E (Mar 11, 2008)

I use hot melt glue for tuning purposes on my Nanos, X10 and ACCs. 
I have had a few points come off after hitting a hard target. 
Now when the arrows are tuned I remove the points and epoxy them in. 
It sucks when the point breaks off and leaves the small shaft in the arrow. 
I have a Nano that is a nice wall hanger.

Erich


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## AlphaOmega (Feb 23, 2008)

To use hot melt glue you must heat the points you intend to use. There is no way to regulate how hot they get. So, when you apply the glue to the point you must at a rapid pace insert the point into the shaft. The carbon arrow shafts are carbon fibers held together in a similar way as fiber glass with resins.

The heat will in many cases damage the area of the shaft touching the new insert or point if you decide to use hot melt. Basically, using hot melt like this is non standard and if you trash your arrows that would be what happens when you reinvent the wheel.

Look at Easton carbon arrows and you will see that Easton sells EPOXY to attach inserts and points. They sell hot melt for aluminum, aluminum core and wood shaft arrows. Carbon arrows get epoxy along with FMJ and such that have carbon on the inside.

Any way do what you want I do know that when you want to salvage parts of a carbon shafted arrow heat will break down the epoxy so you can save points and inserts.

:smile_red_bike:


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## Sleeping Robot (Aug 16, 2007)

*Temporary attachments*

This thread is well-timed for me. I've just ordered some new carbon shafts for myself and my wife will be ordering some very soon. The question of how to temporarily attach points for tuning is on my mind. Options seem to be:
1) Hot melt.
2) A single wrap of packing tape around the outside of the point and shaft.
3) Slow Cure (24 hr) epoxy that softens up at about 250 F.

Hot melt raises the concern about damaging the shafts from the heat.
Tape raises concerns about how well it holds, and a minor concern about the extra weight.
The slow cure epoxy would seem to make for a very slow tuning process.

Anyone know of better options?

Thanks,
Ron


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

AlphaOmega said:


> To use hot melt glue you must heat the points you intend to use. There is no way to regulate how hot they get. So, when you apply the glue to the point you must at a rapid pace insert the point into the shaft. The carbon arrow shafts are carbon fibers held together in a similar way as fiber glass with resins.
> 
> The heat will in many cases damage the area of the shaft touching the new insert or point if you decide to use hot melt. Basically, using hot melt like this is non standard and if you trash your arrows that would be what happens when you reinvent the wheel.
> 
> ...


Yep, there is a way to regulate how hot the points get- Till the (low temp) glue melts, but it isn't bubbling. Couple seconds in the flame, not minutes. Works for me. You can also hold the point in you fingers instead of a pair of pliars.
I use a little alcohol lamp. If you use a blowtorch, there might be a problem.

As far as companies that don't mind you using hot melt with their carbon arrows, here's Carbon Tech. They suggest their own epoxy because of better holding properties, but have no problem with the pin system and hot melt.


> We recommend Rick’s glue for the points. This 48 hour epoxy gives the shaft better frequency absorption. Just remember to have the glue cure for the "full 48 hours" or you will lose points.
> 
> For the pin system, you can use low temperature hot melt. This glue has similar absorption capabilities as Rick’s glue but does not adhere as strongly.


Archery Australia also says you can use hot melt for carbon. http://www.archery.org.au/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=ASP0009/ccms.r?PageID=10493
Maybe they just aren't as sue-happy down there.


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## short-n-fast (Dec 4, 2004)

Hot melt is the way to go IMO. Make sure you clean the inside of the shaft well with 99% Isophyl Alcohol , or Acetone. If you dont , you will loose a few points in the bails. 

When removing points , heat the tip of the point , and hold your fingures on the shaft closest to the point. when you start feeling heat in the shaft , take it off the flame , wait a few seconds , and pull the point with pliers. Take your time , and it will work great!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> Yep, there is a way to regulate how hot the points get- Till the (low temp) glue melts, but it isn't bubbling. Couple seconds in the flame, not minutes. Works for me. You can also hold the point in you fingers instead of a pair of pliars.
> I use a little alcohol lamp. If you use a blowtorch, there might be a problem.
> 
> As far as companies that don't mind you using hot melt with their carbon arrows, here's Carbon Tech. They suggest their own epoxy because of better holding properties, but have no problem with the pin system and hot melt.
> ...



Exactly....most people I have seen using hot melt even the low temp stuff gets the glue WAAAYYYY to hot. The shouldn't drip or anything. It should be forced onto the point for the most part and then reheat the point to soften the glue back up and shove it in the shaft.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

AlphaOmega said:


> To use hot melt glue you must heat the points you intend to use. There is no way to regulate how hot they get. So, when you apply the glue to the point you must at a rapid pace insert the point into the shaft. The carbon arrow shafts are carbon fibers held together in a similar way as fiber glass with resins.
> 
> The heat will in many cases damage the area of the shaft touching the new insert or point if you decide to use hot melt. Basically, using hot melt like this is non standard and if you trash your arrows that would be what happens when you reinvent the wheel.
> 
> ...


They do that becaause 99% of the people are gonna use enough heat to weld something together....and you will blow up a shaft and the point will shoot across the room.

You are melting low temp glue that can be reheated if it gets cool to fast...not an iceberg:wink:


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## AlphaOmega (Feb 23, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> They do that becaause 99% of the people are gonna use enough heat to weld something together....and you will blow up a shaft and the point will shoot across the room.
> 
> You are melting low temp glue that can be reheated if it gets cool to fast...not an iceberg:wink:


There is no way to tell if one point is hotter than another and with a small amount of heat a carbon shaft can be damaged. Easton has epoxy available to glue in inserts and points in carbon shafts. I don't use plain carbon shafts any longer but if I did I would use Easton HIT, 3M DP390 or AAE 24-hour cure epoxies.

Another alternative would be to apply adhesive caulk like Phenoseal Vinyl Adhesive Caulk for tuning purposes. 

I'm not starting a fuss on this but it is clear that carbons will be damaged if enough heat is applied and in general if you are going to recommend using hot melt then be sure to add a disclaimer about possible damage through heat. Once damaged that 1" or so will need to be cut off and in many cases will render the shaft too short.
:deadhorse


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## soularcher (Apr 28, 2008)

*No problems so far.*

I used hot melt in my carbons, and no problems so far. I just scuffed the inside of the shaft and the insert to give better adhesion.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

AlphaOmega said:


> There is no way to tell if one point is hotter than another and with a small amount of heat a carbon shaft can be damaged. Easton has epoxy available to glue in inserts and points in carbon shafts. I don't use plain carbon shafts any longer but if I did I would use Easton HIT, 3M DP390 or AAE 24-hour cure epoxies.
> 
> Another alternative would be to apply adhesive caulk like Phenoseal Vinyl Adhesive Caulk for tuning purposes.
> 
> ...


We/I understand what you are saying....and I am not trying to start a fuss and neither is anyone else.

But the fact of the matter is that most that argue against using hot melt or have problems using it or whatever are using to much heat...PERIOD. Just heat up some low temp glue as a trial...use a lighter and hold the glue over the flame....it takes all of about 5-10 secs of heat from a lighter (depending on the lighter) to start melting the glue. Once the glue gets soft....it is hot enough to put on a point. You aren't boiling the glue and it isn't the Ferllite (sp) that you need to get super hot.

If you are damaging shafts....then you are getting the glue and the point about 50 times hotter then it needs to be.:wink:


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

AlphaOmega said:


> There is no way to tell if one point is hotter than another and with a small amount of heat a carbon shaft can be damaged. Easton has epoxy available to glue in inserts and points in carbon shafts. I don't use plain carbon shafts any longer but if I did I would use Easton HIT, 3M DP390 or AAE 24-hour cure epoxies.
> 
> Another alternative would be to apply adhesive caulk like Phenoseal Vinyl Adhesive Caulk for tuning purposes.
> 
> ...


Err... we're not going for .5 degree tolerances, you know... they all cool down to room temperature in a minute, anyways. 
If you REALLY feel it's necessary, you can easily invest in an IR thermometer (http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8024/) for about $40.
For me, though, "cool enough" is cool enough. Here's an analogy. Yes, you can ruin the temper on your knife by putting it in something hot. Can you still use it to check a steak on the grill? I think so! Do we know EXACTLY how hot that steak is? No, of course not.

Hasn't everyone who has recommended hot melt said that you can't heat it up too much, lest you damage the carbon (well, epoxy...)? Do we really need to add a legal disclaimer to everything? Perhaps if you are an arrow company, but I think that common sense prevails for most people.

I'm going to install some HIT inserts (with epoxy!) in a few minutes, but I'm doing that because they accept screw in points. If I epoxy some 110 grain break off points into my Nanos, and need to go down to 100 grains later (or replace a dinged up point), I'm screwed (pun intended...).


The writer of this post is not liable for your problems, in whole or in part;
nor responsible for any damages, including, yet not limited to, eyes, ears,
navel, sanity, and pet wallabies. Thank you.


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## AlphaOmega (Feb 23, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> We/I understand what you are saying....and I am not trying to start a fuss and neither is anyone else.
> 
> But the fact of the matter is that most that argue against using hot melt or have problems using it or whatever are using to much heat...PERIOD. Just heat up some low temp glue as a trial...use a lighter and hold the glue over the flame....it takes all of about 5-10 secs of heat from a lighter (depending on the lighter) to start melting the glue. Once the glue gets soft....it is hot enough to put on a point. You aren't boiling the glue and it isn't the Ferllite (sp) that you need to get super hot.
> 
> If you are damaging shafts....then you are getting the glue and the point about 50 times hotter then it needs to be.:wink:


Again BH I don't use plain carbons any more. I do use FMJs for hunting and those have HIT and so I use the HIT epoxy. A better way to say it is that I "USED" HIT epoxy since I don't plan on getting any more FMJs any time soon. The rest of my arrows are ACC & ACE and good old aluminum X7s and I use hot melt for all of these. 

I don't have a hot melt problem thank you and doubt I will. In MHO I think that when you and other people recommend using hot melt on carbons that it would be wise to add a disclaimer since for every dozen shafts there are 12 opportunities to mess them up.

:violin:


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## AAinCal (Mar 3, 2008)

Lots of great information all around. Thanks.

I've used Bhoning Ferr-L-Tite for aluminum and A/C type arrows. This is a high temperature hot melt, so I won't risk it on the nanos. Does it matter what kind of low temp. hot melt I use? In other words, can I just pop down to the hardware store? 

P.S. Sorry for the stupid questions. This is my first set of really high end arrows, and I don't want to screw them up before I even get to shoot them.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

AlphaOmega said:


> Again BH I don't use plain carbons any more. I do use FMJs for hunting and those have HIT and so I use the HIT epoxy. A better way to say it is that I "USED" HIT epoxy since I don't plan on getting any more FMJs any time soon. The rest of my arrows are ACC & ACE and good old aluminum X7s and I use hot melt for all of these.
> 
> I don't have a hot melt problem thank you and doubt I will. In MHO I think that when you and other people recommend using hot melt on carbons that it would be wise to add a disclaimer since for every dozen shafts there are 12 opportunities to mess them up.
> :violin:


AT is a lot easier to when you don't think everything said as beign directed at you.:wink: 

Never said you had a problem I said people that have problems......and I also said I understand what you are saying....so there is no reason for the :violin: You are the only one beating the horse:wink:

If someone blows an arrow up or damages one after all the clear explanations have been given like they have repeatedly....then we will send the short bus around.

Again...read what I said about using a lighter and how long it takes to SOFTEN the glue....

You use whatever glue you want.....if you think you might mess up your shafts then by all means stay away from the low temp stuff. 

How do you get the points out of arrows you put in with epoxy if you need to? Nanos and other target shafts don't use HIT inserts....yes some may use FMJs.:wink:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> Err... we're not going for .5 degree tolerances, you know... they all cool down to room temperature in a minute, anyways.
> If you REALLY feel it's necessary, you can easily invest in an IR thermometer (http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8024/) for about $40.
> For me, though, "cool enough" is cool enough. Here's an analogy. Yes, you can ruin the temper on your knife by putting it in something hot. Can you still use it to check a steak on the grill? I think so! Do we know EXACTLY how hot that steak is? No, of course not.
> 
> ...


Exactly....the stuff is calle dLOW TEMP for a reason.:wink:


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## AlphaOmega (Feb 23, 2008)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> Err... we're not going for .5 degree tolerances, you know... they all cool down to room temperature in a minute, anyways.
> If you REALLY feel it's necessary, you can easily invest in an IR thermometer (http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8024/) for about $40.
> For me, though, "cool enough" is cool enough. Here's an analogy. Yes, you can ruin the temper on your knife by putting it in something hot. Can you still use it to check a steak on the grill? I think so! Do we know EXACTLY how hot that steak is? No, of course not.
> 
> ...


What is with the tone of this reply? I'm not a child or the like so you can dispense with the remarks about hot things cooling down or getting IR thermometers. I never said any of it was necessary. I read info from Easton and others and they do not recommend anything other than EPOXY. So hot melt could damage an arrow or 12 and developing "the hot melt touch" might ruin some arrows. In this regard it is better to suggest that even though the majority of arrow manufactures do not advocate using hot melt on carbons that YOU think it is OK if done with care. 

I'm involved with this topic from the position that using hot melt on carbons has an element of risk due to the fact that I watched someone ruin some shafts using hot melt. I expressed my opinion that he was using too much heat and that was silenced by a "Mind Your Own Business" and then I shut up and watched the ruination of a nice set of arrows.

In this thread I am suggesting that posters here might want to have another point of view available before they decide to risk their arrows in this way. So it is nothing personal on my part. I am speaking up and disagreeing.

PAX


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## Targetbutt (Jan 19, 2006)

I bought a low temp hotmelt from Lancaster, I've used that on all my shafts. Including the Nanos. No problem at all. You just need to make sure the inside of the shaft is clean before you put it in. I take a piece of cloth dip it in alcohol and stick it down the shaft with a small allen wrench. Then heat the hotmelt and put it on the point, add another 3 seconds of heat from a torch to the point and stick it in. 

To take the point out, I use a torch and heat the tip about 13 seconds, rotating as I heat it. Then let it sit for another 20 seconds for the heat to propagate and melt the glue. Stick the point in a vise and pull the shaft loose.


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sho...=2536&osCsid=518f9ac23466c37ee51b4193e2811898

I use that stuff for anything. Even if it is the same stuff as you can get from the hardware store (might be specially designed though. Even still, I'm sure they figured out which glue worked best), what's a few cents extra per dozen arrows? Consider it insurance against a potential lost point or two.

Also, a little tip- One thing I've done to recycle waste glue and stretch the stick is to collect all the little donuts of peeled off glue from your shafts, and stick them in a little pile. Heat up the glue stick again, and roll the donuts back onto the stick. The sticks then seem to last FOREVER. Only a small fraction of the glue you use stays in the shaft, after all, so you can probably double or triple the number of arrows you can get per stick.


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

AlphaOmega said:


> What is with the tone of this reply? I'm not a child or the like so you can dispense with the remarks about hot things cooling down or getting IR thermometers. I never said any of it was necessary. I read info from Easton and others and they do not recommend anything other than EPOXY. So hot melt could damage an arrow or 12 and developing "the hot melt touch" might ruin some arrows. In this regard it is better to suggest that even though the majority of arrow manufactures do not advocate using hot melt on carbons that YOU think it is OK if done with care.
> 
> I'm involved with this topic from the position that using hot melt on carbons has an element of risk due to the fact that I watched someone ruin some shafts using hot melt. I expressed my opinion that he was using too much heat and that was silenced by a "Mind Your Own Business" and then I shut up and watched the ruination of a nice set of arrows.
> 
> ...


 It's all been said in post 18.


EDIT- Targetbutt, how do you prevent the fabric from getting stuck in the shaft? I've had good luck with Q-Tips with part of their cotton pulled off, but that's a pain making those.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

AlphaOmega said:


> What is with the tone of this reply? I'm not a child or the like so you can dispense with the remarks about hot things cooling down or getting IR thermometers. I never said any of it was necessary. I read info from Easton and others and they do not recommend anything other than EPOXY. So hot melt could damage an arrow or 12 and developing "the hot melt touch" might ruin some arrows. In this regard it is better to suggest that even though the majority of arrow manufactures do not advocate using hot melt on carbons that YOU think it is OK if done with care.
> 
> I'm involved with this topic from the position that using hot melt on carbons has an element of risk due to the fact that I watched someone ruin some shafts using hot melt. I expressed my opinion that he was using too much heat and that was silenced by a "Mind Your Own Business" and then I shut up and watched the ruination of a nice set of arrows.
> 
> ...



He had no "tone" in his reply:embara: 

You need to step back and relax a little and not take things as a personal attack.....it's a discussion....yes your opinion or advice is welcome but you aren't the only one allowed to post his opionion....and if someone doesn't agree with you....it isn't an attack or someone treating you like a child


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## Sleeping Robot (Aug 16, 2007)

AAinCal said:


> Does it matter what kind of low temp. hot melt I use? In other words, can I just pop down to the hardware store?


From what I've read, it does matter. Archery hotmelt will be less brittle than normal hardware store glue. Also, you can get it in a low-temp formulation, which is what my wife is ordering as I write this.

Thanks to all on this thread for the good tips on technique, such as holding the shaft in your fingers to make sure it does not get too hot.

Ron


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Sleeping Robot said:


> From what I've read, it does matter. Archery hotmelt will be less brittle than normal hardware store glue. Also, you can get it in a low-temp formulation, which is what my wife is ordering as I write this.
> 
> Thanks to all on this thread for the good tips on technique, such as holding the shaft in your fingers to make sure it does not get too hot.
> 
> Ron


I have been using low temp glue from Wal Mart for about the past 8 years or so....

The last batch I got was a pack of 24....the sticks were about 12" long and I think the bag cost me about $3. It isn't brittle at all....you find it in the craft section usually


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

The best low temp hot melt I have used is made by "Stanley" (tape measure guys). The box is yellow and black. The glue is their "S" brand. (super strength). Yellow in color.

You can put points in with a lighter with this hot melt. This particular hot melt DOES NOT get thin like Easton's or the other high temp stuff.


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## Targetbutt (Jan 19, 2006)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> It's all been said in post 18.
> 
> 
> EDIT- Targetbutt, how do you prevent the fabric from getting stuck in the shaft? I've had good luck with Q-Tips with part of their cotton pulled off, but that's a pain making those.


hehe, I've had that happen to me too with the Qtip. Had to take the pin nock out to get that out of the shaft. Nowadays I use a big thin piece of cloth and I hold on to it as I stick the allen wrench in the shaft. It doesn't go in too deep but deep enough, about 1/4"-1/2", to make sure part of the shaft is clean. I've been using this set of Nanos for the better part of a year and have yet to loose a point in a bale, phonebook or butt. Shot it into a very tough butt once at the Easton Cup.


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## short-n-fast (Dec 4, 2004)

the shop I frequent uses rhinotuff glue sticks , works great! Only time I had any tips pull was from not cleaning the inside of the shaft good enough.


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

Targetbutt said:


> hehe, I've had that happen to me too with the Qtip. Had to take the pin nock out to get that out of the shaft. Nowadays I use a big thin piece of cloth and I hold on to it as I stick the allen wrench in the shaft. It doesn't go in too deep but deep enough, about 1/4"-1/2", to make sure part of the shaft is clean. I've been using this set of Nanos for the better part of a year and have yet to loose a point in a bale, phonebook or butt. Shot it into a very tough butt once at the Easton Cup.


Ooooooh, good call! I'll make sure to try that.


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

Targetbutt said:


> To take the point out, I use a torch and heat the tip about 13 seconds, rotating as I heat it. Then let it sit for another 20 seconds for the heat to propagate and melt the glue. Stick the point in a vise and pull the shaft loose.


(I just love this stuff! Sorry, don't mean to melt over it...:wink.

However, I think "Targetbutt" hit the nail on the head with how (IMHO) most shafts get ruined by over heating the points and the glue.
This seems to happen most when *removing* the points (if it happens when inserting, it's simply probably assuming point and/or glue need to be hotter than necessary to work with). To do it right, takes some effort to insert or remove the points (not enough to ruin a shaft that way, but nothing should insert or remove.... slippy).
Not waiting for the heat to propagate through the metal after heating the tip for considerable time before removing, is not discussed much, and so critical.

If one heats the point/glue so it is hot enough to slide the point right in...
--You have over heated the point and the glue, and therefore the shaft.

If one heats the point/tip to remove it, and keeps heating it (no wait time) until the point slides right out with little or no effort...
--You have over heated the point and the glue, and therefore the shaft (bet you can't touch the shaft behind the point without risking burn).

There are so many arguments over the use of this glue, and yet it seems it is misused so often.

(this is not directed at any individual, it's intended to give my opinion and experience of how I personally best use this glue without incident, in hopes that others and perhaps some that haven't used it, or too afraid to try it for some applications, might feel more comfortable using it if done right. It works well IMO).

And, Q-Tips, just scare me


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## wmt3rd (Oct 20, 2004)

I found that Qtips are too big for an ACE shaft, so I use a pipe cleaner soaked in alcohol. It slides right in.

Mack


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## Sleeping Robot (Aug 16, 2007)

*scuffing the shaft*

What do people use for scuffing up the inside of the shaft? I have a little fine grit diamond rat-tail file I had been thinking of using. Does that seem OK?

Ron


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

Sleeping Robot said:


> What do people use for scuffing up the inside of the shaft? I have a little fine grit diamond rat-tail file I had been thinking of using. Does that seem OK?
> 
> Ron


I'd say that's too much. I'd think that would give too much chance to ruin the inside of the shaft, especially around the end... 
How about a brass bore brush (for rifles, air guns, etc)? 

To be perfectly frank, though, I've never scuffed up the inside, I just clean with isopro. Never lost a point yet.


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> I'd say that's too much. I'd think that would give too much chance to ruin the inside of the shaft, especially around the end...
> How about a brass bore brush (for rifles, air guns, etc)?
> 
> To be perfectly frank, though, I've never scuffed up the inside, I just clean with isopro. Never lost a point yet.


Never scuffed either and haven't lost a point yet (and, must admit pried a few from wood I was certain would have rendered the point coming out at least some distance, but it didn't).
I always worried that scuffing could not only damage the inside of the shaft as "Frank" said wink: Had to though that in, James) yet also actually open the door to a possible air pocket in glue distribution between the shaft/point shank. I know, seems like paranoia....


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## Targetbutt (Jan 19, 2006)

I've never shot Gold Tip arrows before, but from watching a few of my friends shoot those. Seems like they need to have the inside of the shaft scrubbed with a bore brush. The Nanos on the other hand are fine without scrubbing.


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

RaptorX said:


> Never scuffed either and haven't lost a point yet (and, must admit pried a few from wood I was certain would have rendered the point coming out at least some distance, but it didn't).
> I always worried that scuffing could not only damage the inside of the shaft as "Frank" said wink: Had to though that in, James) yet also actually open the door to a possible air pocket in glue distribution between the shaft/point shank. I know, seems like paranoia....


Brian, when your wife says "I'm hungry..." do you say "Nice to meet you, Hungry!"? Seems right up your alley...


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> Brian, when your wife says "I'm hungry..." do you say "Nice to meet you, Hungry!"? Seems right up your alley...


Thanks, James. If you had to endure the morning meetings at work with the person who runs them, (AKA, queen of all puns intended), you would understand the rub off.
It doesn't stop after one, it goes on and on.
Now, I'm shocked to find I have picked up this unforgiving and annoying trait.
But, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a...." wait.

Dang, there it goes again.
I need therapy....

Yikes, playful moods can be harmful to one's credibility. Well, it would if I had any..

To answer your question seriously, uh, yeah. Things like that happen all the time in the family. Wife's favorite is while on road trips. It's all quiet and she blurts out "HEY", I'm startled. But what I find myself looking at the road it's usually a truck full of "Hay", and I'm caught again.....she giggles to no end.

(sigh), the things that amuse us.

Yet, what does this have to do with Low Temp Hot Melt (oh, boy. I can't tell that story here.....:tongue

- - - - end of hijack.


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## VinZ (Apr 30, 2007)

I never use epoxy - not even when supplied with the shaft/point/inserts. I use glue from a hot glue gun. It has the lowest melting point I've seen and after years of abuse I haven't lost a point yet - even the ones I've shot in wood.
One sure way of not damaging carbon when inserting the point is to keep the point in your hand when heating. If it becomes to hot to hold - it's probably also to hot for the shaft.
A student of mine point broke off and a piece was left inside the shaft. Since you must not put a carbon shaft in a flame this is a problem. Solution: use an electric paint stripper to heat. Worked great.


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## vitralist (Aug 10, 2003)

Do not mean to be off topic. I have a new set of Nano-pros coming. What would your opinion be using Bohning Powerbond?


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## leos61 (Mar 13, 2006)

*Hot melt/Powerbond*

Powerbond is supposed to be "heat reversible". When I used the stuff in the past I had mixed results with the reversiblity. Once the points were in the shafts for some months they were, for all practical purposes, permanently fixed in the shafts. I did not exceed the temperature of boiling water when I attempted to remove these points. I now use only hot melt glue when affixing the points in my Nano shafts. I have not lost any points using the hot melt. Immersing the tips of the shafts in the boiling water for a few seconds is sufficient to soften the hot melt and the points are easily removed.


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## ksm23 (Jun 1, 2002)

to all concerned, i used finger nail polish for the inserts.
what is hot melt/glue.
no heat !
i ruined some arrows bercause of my lack of attention to heat.
try an arrow, and hopefully you get nail polish one way or another.(the clear type is best)


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

ksm23 said:


> to all concerned, i used finger nail polish for the inserts.
> what is hot melt/glue.
> no heat !
> i ruined some arrows bercause of my lack of attention to heat.
> try an arrow, and hopefully you get nail polish one way or another.(the clear type is best)


ksm23, can you explain more about the finger nail polish?
Where, or who advised you to do this (if anyone), and, do you do this primarily with inserts, or target points (full point without insert, or, with screw in insert)?


- - - - - - - -

On another note, regarding Gold Tip arrows, I was out shooting one day, and a compound shooter showed up (shooting gold tips). Nice kid, and shot about 8 arrows, and one of the inserts (point included) came out. He said he just had the arrows made the day before at a local shop, and, we thought it a fluke.
Next, he shot several more ends, and by the time he left, he had only 3 arrows left that had the inserts/points left in (soft bales, believe me, hay).


I cannot believe this is related to gold tip arrows (maybe, some that sell them).
I know some outstanding shooters that shoot Gold Tips (compound, high #). Never, in hard nasty bales (that I am exposed to) have I seen a tip point come out from theirs. I suspect this to be some form (sure wish I knew what it was) of fast set glue. It was NOT, hot melt, for certain.
Must be a short cut.

My best results with inserts, and points I never intend to remove, ever, is epoxy, or "Gorilla Glue!!!!" used properly, absolutely awesome.
Yet, I hear if you heat it a bit like a hot melted glue in tip, it can come out?
Never tried removing one.

For me personally, as I like the advantage of removing tips from my all my arrows, it's hot melt all the way (any shaft). Cut or ding or gash one, and it needs to be replaced in my eyes, period.
Do it right, you can't go wrong (ps-LOVE the glue gun thing, always thought this would work, seems same basic glue, needed a credible confirmation ).

Could work with easton's also?

Uh, anyway, that's my 2 cents worth about the above, just as curious as others (not, concerned). Yet, sure would love to hear more about the nail polish. I had NEVER heard of this before (how many have?).

Cheers!


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## kjwhfsd (Sep 10, 2005)

AlphaOmega said:


> What is with the tone of this reply? I'm not a child or the like so you can dispense with the remarks about hot things cooling down or getting IR thermometers. I never said any of it was necessary. I read info from Easton and others and they do not recommend anything other than EPOXY. So hot melt could damage an arrow or 12 and developing "the hot melt touch" might ruin some arrows. In this regard it is better to suggest that even though the majority of arrow manufactures do not advocate using hot melt on carbons that YOU think it is OK if done with care.
> 
> I'm involved with this topic from the position that using hot melt on carbons has an element of risk due to the fact that I watched someone ruin some shafts using hot melt. I expressed my opinion that he was using too much heat and that was silenced by a "Mind Your Own Business" and then I shut up and watched the ruination of a nice set of arrows.
> 
> ...



How many black corvette's are melting bown in Arizona its pretty much the same resin thats used in them. You have to get them pretty hot to do damage. If people have a clue they wont destroy arrows.


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