# 36" Riser Bow



## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Has a 38" ATA. Who would be interested in shooting something like this? It's a split limb bow and drawing is just to give you ideas.


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## Metrodix (May 30, 2002)

maitland said:


> Has a 38" ATA. Who would be interested in shooting something like this? It's a split limb bow and drawing is just to give you ideas.


That is great!!
I would like to get one for FITA and FITA Field!


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2009)

I honestly think that drawing looks awesome. Thatd be a sweet design.


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## PUG (Nov 3, 2002)

*yeah..*

As a bow designer myself...that looks pretty good.. :darkbeer:


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## Metrodix (May 30, 2002)

@ Maitland

You got a PM.


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## limbsaver73 (Jan 28, 2009)

*great!*

What kind of ibo are yo shooting for. You have a pm as as well.


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## 18javelin (Aug 13, 2005)

I like it minus the roller gaurd. maybe a little more aggressive cam system. But the speed dont mean as much to me really as having a solid wall and a good valley.

build it with quality materials and i would buy it.

WHAT I WANT THOUGH...


IS a 35 inch bow (AtoA) with a 8 inch Brace height. 

Best of Both worlds, there is plenty of short bows and plenty of long ones and all the inbetweens have 7 inch Minus Brace heights.....


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

Nice led work....


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## Sky Warrior (Dec 12, 2004)

I would if the draw length goes down to 25" and you can keep the bow's weight below 4 lbs. I also need 35 lbs limbs. It looks close to HCA Speed Pro bow.


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## 5MilesBack (Feb 28, 2007)

Looks pretty close to my Old Glory, except my Old Glory has just under 37" ATA and almost 8" BH. An extra inch of ATA and a little less BH wouldn't change much for me.

Wow, picture looks similar but after measuring, my Old Glory is only a 26" riser. For some reason I thought it was more of a parallel limb bow than it is.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I can build it in all draw lengths, weights, brace heights, different cams etc... Keeping under 4lbs will be impossible structurally with a 36" riser. The bow will be more like 4 1/2 lbs but who is complaining about 1/2 lb on a bow like this. I have a 31" design that would fit your weight requirements. There is not a riser this long on the market today that gives you true parallel design in a 38" bow. The advantages are huge. I need more input and if you want it I will build it.


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## rcgerchow (Dec 20, 2006)

I would agree with most here. a little speed for distance shooting (field/fita), weight sounds fine as long as you make enough Threaded holes for added stabilization. Brace height 7.5 to 8 " nice solid wall for ease of back tension. Available in 40-50 lb and 50-60 lb. configurations. Cam system that is easily adjusted for draw length due to most bows being short or long when you get them, also easy to change let off 65-75%. Long riser should make for a stable platform.


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## LBmaN (Mar 30, 2008)

I like it minus the roler, one thing i noticed is that there are no visible limb bolts from the side, is this the bowtech style with the bar and e clips?


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*Very nice job!*

maitland:

That is a very nice design. Combines function with a very nice look. As my one present bow is 38" ATA with a 7.5" brace , it is a configuration that I find very shootable. You combined elongated limb pockets, slight reflex, parallel limbs into a very attractive package. Should be very stable and a joy to shoot. 

What cam system are you planning to use?


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

If it had a built in adapter or accessory bracket incorporated into the riser what would you choose? It can be anything from stabilizer holes to vibration dampening to a sight or rest position. Remember, anything can be accomplished.


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

I'd like to try something like that out.

:izza:


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## Luckiduc13 (Nov 1, 2004)

Neat, but I aint a split limb kinda guy.


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## jdcamo (Sep 18, 2006)

looks like a Bowtech!


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## Belicoso (Aug 22, 2006)

How much will the riser bent while drawing the bow back ??


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

make it a shoot thru riser, straight riser geometry,integrated grip with side plates, at least 8 on the BH, and i will buy the first ten.....as long as the limbs are as good as hoyt's!


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## camoman73 (Jul 7, 2007)

My mamba xl has a super long riser gotta be close to 37.


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

To me it looks like a Bowmadness XL or a Money Maker with straighter limbs. I would have to see how it shoots, not exactly my cup of tea in a bow. Not saying it isn't a great design, just not what I usually look for.


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

Nice looking design but it doesn't seem to be in scale. Using the 38" as an ATA the brace measurement comes out close to 6.2" so the limbs will need to be longer to get 7.5 on the brace. It should be a real shooter.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

Bowtechie said:


> Nice looking design but it doesn't seem to be in scale. Using the 38" as an ATA the brace measurement comes out close to 6.2" so the limbs will need to be longer to get 7.5 on the brace. It should be a real shooter.


I'd keep the short limbs for speed and make it a neutral or slightly deflexed riser to get the BH. They seem to settle down on target quicker than reflexed risers anyway.

Maitland, cool design. That is a lot of riser to deal with. Any idea how much riser deflection it may have at full draw? That would be my only concern as weight isn't a deal breaker for me as long as it's strong and rigid. 

A cam system with the DFC of Hoyt's Cam.5 or Cam.5+ would be ideal in my opinion.

And what style would the limbpockets be?


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## fastpassthrough (Jan 25, 2003)

5MilesBack said:


> Looks pretty close to my Old Glory, except my Old Glory has just under 37" ATA and almost 8" BH. An extra inch of ATA and a little less BH wouldn't change much for me.
> 
> Wow, picture looks similar but after measuring, my Old Glory is only a 26" riser. For some reason I thought it was more of a parallel limb bow than it is.


here you go 38" axle to axle 7 5/8 brace 330 IBO
30" riser right at 4#s


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## Z-Rider (Jul 23, 2007)

Nice looking design, planning on building it?


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

Looks AMAZING :mg::thumb:. Only thing I would recommend would be making your cam system capable of being a shoot through, like Martin bows.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Guys I am glad you brought up the flex in the riser. That is a very big concern with the longer riser bows today. It is not tough to eliminate flex in the riser just attention to detail when designing. This riser will be stiff but will add a few more ounces of weight than a lot of the 29 to 30 inch risers.Using a 30" riser and having a 37 or 38" ATA bow does not give you the full benefit of true parallel limb design. I built my first 29" riser in 2002 and at that time it was almost unheard of. Now it is almost the standard on a lot of bows. Try this sometime- take a string tape one end to the upper limb pocket, pull it tight and tape the other end to the lower pocket. the string also needs to be on the sight window side. draw your bow and see if the string goes limp at all. If it does, your riser is flexing which is a no no.


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## hoofmeat (Jan 18, 2009)

*Nice*

I'd shoot one. Heck Ya! Need a pr-staffer?


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## Bert2 (Feb 16, 2003)

for a quick prototype, buy an HCA supreme pro and save yourself a lot of money on custom machine work !

the new breed long ATA bow that Richard posted above is also very similar, and also Elite XLR, but neither have the roller guard


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

Shoot thru riser, and a spiral type feel cam and I bet you sell a bunch

besides going into prototyping and making actual parts have you used FEA to massage the design?

I like the premise make it 8" of BH and I'm liking it even more


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Shoot through riser and a shoot through cable system will give you something that no one else has. You would be the one to be 'caught if they can....'.
A shoot through riser would stiffen things up for sure. Looks great so far!


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## SC Archer (Oct 11, 2006)

18javelin said:


> I like it minus the roller gaurd. maybe a little more aggressive cam system. But the speed dont mean as much to me really as having a solid wall and a good valley.
> 
> build it with quality materials and i would buy it.
> 
> ...


this bow exists it is a 2008-09 Merlin XV 35 ata and a 8 inch bh shoots 320 ibo one of the best bows i had, regret getting rid of it, like said above i would shoot that bow without the roller guard


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## weston2009 (Feb 13, 2009)

X-RINGER said:


> make it a shoot thru riser, straight riser geometry,integrated grip with side plates, at least 8 on the BH, and i will buy the first ten.....as long as the limbs are as good as hoyt's!


+1, and make the limbs a little less paralell with more preload


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## SC Archer (Oct 11, 2006)

weston2009 said:


> +1, and make the limbs a little less paralell with more preload


i agree 100% i dont like parallel limbs on my target bows, i feel that more vertical limbs gives you more feedback and feel after the shot as opposed to a dead no vibe and shock feeling of parallel limbs


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## Bert2 (Feb 16, 2003)

weston2009 said:


> +1, and make the limbs a little less paralell with more preload


you are talking about the HCA Supreme Pro now for sure

seriously -- if you are thinking about making a bow like this, the HCA Supreme Pro is a good place to start; test that first and see what you want to change or improve rather than starting from scratch

I have one and there is just one thing I would like to change/improve: the draw cycle has a hump just before let-off

also if I had my druthers, I'druther have a little longer ATA . . . but that's just me with my orangutan arms, probably not needed for the 90th percentile archers


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## SC Archer (Oct 11, 2006)

Bert2 said:


> you are talking about the HCA Supreme Pro now for sure
> 
> seriously -- if you are thinking about making a bow like this, the HCA Supreme Pro is a good place to start; test that first and see what you want to change or improve rather than starting from scratch
> 
> ...


arnt those limbs pretty parallel? i looked at that bow as well but they failed to contact me, looks like the limbs are too parallel for me on a target bow


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

*This is what I am trying to avoid.*

Example 2 has too much front to back motion for my liking. With the cam weight on the end of the limb and the radius its on you can see too much preload on the limb creates movement. Example 1 is more subtle, more of a true vertical cancellation of front to back movement.


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## JUMPMAN (Jun 5, 2005)

If designing more of a target bow, would a more recurve type limb be more suffient...:noidea:...plus get rid of the roller gaurd...:zip:


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## SC Archer (Oct 11, 2006)

JUMPMAN said:


> If designing more of a target bow, would a more recurve type limb be more suffient...:noidea:...plus get rid of the roller gaurd...:zip:


i agree for me i like more forward limb movemt than vertical which is why im such a fan of the hoyt elite series target bow there is some vertical movement and some frontal movent i like alot of front as opposed to vertical provides feedback after shot


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

It all comes down to personal preference. This sport would fade to nothing if there were only one type of bow out there. We have so many options out there, something to fit everyone. I enjoy shooting all types depending on what kind of a mood i am in but I really enjoy advancements in the leading edge technology.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

i beg you..... to build a shoot thru riser,straight geometry, make it at least 8 inches on the BH and 38-40 inches on the ATA, it would kinda be like taking the proelite w/2000 limbs and stretching the riser a couple inches....:wink:....ditch the roller guard idea and build a cam system with something similar to martin's shoot thru cams and a spiral cam draw cycle and wall....you would have the ultimate target bow guaranteed!


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

X-RINGER said:


> i beg you..... to build a shoot thru riser,straight geometry, make it at least 8 inches on the BH and 38-40 inches on the ATA, it would kinda be like taking the proelite w/2000 limbs and stretching the riser a couple inches....:wink:....ditch the roller guard idea and build a cam system with something similar to martin's shoot thru cams and a spiral cam draw cycle and wall....you would have the ultimate target bow guaranteed!


um...

what he said


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I am following you, and I know what you are looking for but a shoot through system would completely eliminate a lot of the long ATA hunters, and some finger shooters. If it is balance you are pursuing there are some millings on the riser that keep weight on certain preferred areas of the bow. Tell me why the shoot through riser is so important and maybe I can be swayed. Give me details.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

maitland said:


> I am following you, and I know what you are looking for but a shoot through system would completely eliminate a lot of the long ATA hunters, and some finger shooters. If it is balance you are pursuing there are some millings on the riser that keep weight on certain preferred areas of the bow. Tell me why the shoot through riser is so important and maybe I can be swayed. Give me details.


laterall stiffness, i have owned so many hoyt's it's ridiculous, and i have seen for a fact the identical setup between bows with one being open shelf over a shoot thru and it's very obvious there is some flex laterally with the open shelf design, and with that long of a riser a shoot thru willl give it the stiffness needed and may actually require less mass material to acheive the same stiffness to the open shelf design...and it will also be nessecary to keep the riser stiff in all directions...:wink:

now i would like to add to my previous post, with the grip go with something integrated as the hoyt grip for example but offer side plates, as they don't on their elite target bows, and if possible go with a hybrid cam system with a combination of it being a shoot thru (if possible), don't make the limbs too parrellel, and try to keep a tru center line in the bow both vertically and horizontally.

well if you could design the same bow(spec's) but offer a open shelf design and a shoot thru design you could please both hunters and target archers....


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## weston2009 (Feb 13, 2009)

X-RINGER said:


> laterall stiffness, i have owned so many hoyt's it's ridiculous, and i have seen for a fact the identical setup between bows with one being open shelf over a shoot thru and it's very obvious there is some flex laterally with the open shelf design, and with that long of a riser a shoot thru willl give it the stiffness needed and may actually require less mass material to acheive the same stiffness to the open shelf design...and it will also be nessecary to keep the riser stiff in all directions...:wink:
> 
> now i would like to add to my previous post, with the grip go with something integrated as the hoyt grip for example but offer side plates, as they don't on their elite target bows, and if possible go with a hybrid cam system with a combination of it being a shoot thru (if possible), don't make the limbs too parrellel, and try to keep a tru center line in the bow both vertically and horizontally.
> 
> well if you could design the same bow(spec's) but offer a open shelf design and a shoot thru design you could please both hunters and target archers....


X-ringer is right on when it comes to decsribing a perfect target bow.... this bow sounds like the vantage elite, but with a shoot through cam, and extra brace hieght.... i am excited to what hoyt is gonna bring us for 2010.:teeth:


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

X-RINGER said:


> i beg you..... to build a shoot thru riser,straight geometry, make it at least 8 inches on the BH and 38-40 inches on the ATA, it would kinda be like taking the proelite w/2000 limbs and stretching the riser a couple inches....:wink:....ditch the roller guard idea and build a cam system with something similar to martin's shoot thru cams and a spiral cam draw cycle and wall....you would have the ultimate target bow guaranteed!


I'm working on something like that, only similar to martin elite limbs. Specs should be about 8 7/8" or 8.5" BH (depending on which cams) and 47-48" ata. 30" slighty deflex riser, closed shelf and shoot through system cams.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

X-RINGER said:


> i beg you..... to build a shoot thru riser,straight geometry, make it at least 8 inches on the BH and 38-40 inches on the ATA, it would kinda be like taking the proelite w/2000 limbs and stretching the riser a couple inches....:wink:....ditch the roller guard idea and build a cam system with something similar to martin's shoot thru cams and a spiral cam draw cycle and wall....you would have the ultimate target bow guaranteed!


Sounds like the Martin Nitrous cam.................


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

X-Ringer has it dead on. Maybe keep it 36-38" and offer a spiral/nitrous cam with a shoot through system. Keep away from paralel limbs and offer something like the way the Mathews Conquest limbs bend. Of course the Mathews machined-in grip too.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok i am with you on the lateral flex but how did you prove without a doubt that you found lateral flex in one of the bows?


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## Albtraum (Jul 10, 2009)

Concerning the weight issues of the riser, would it be possible to make a riser out of magnesium? Just no fire-arrows!


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

Albtraum said:


> Concerning the weight issues of the riser, would it be possible to make a riser out of magnesium? Just no fire-arrows!


another way to make it lighter, and stronger is to use 7075 Aluminum rather that 6061 aluminum. you get about 2x the tensile strength with only about a 4% increase in weight per the same volume as 6061


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> Sounds like the Martin Nitrous cam.................


I got one of those...You buying? I have a Martin RazorX w/Elite limbs and the nitrous cams w/shoot thru system?


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

7075 is twice the price


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*Back to the question...*

Getting back to your original question - "Who would be interested in shooting one like this?"

I definitely would.

I understand what most of the target shooters seem to be saying and why, but really you asked for input, and basically got either "make it like a Hoyt or Mathews bow that already exists." or "Buy a High Country or NBA bow and be done with it."

Back in the late '90's, the Conquest looked pretty weird, and radical. They have proven to shoot pretty well for many in the past decade though.

I would think your design should hold very steady, shoot very quietly with little or no "recoil", and with split limbs, be very durable and reliable.
What I usually hear on the forums is that bows like the Elite XL shoot very well, so why should this design not have the possibility of shooting as well or possibly better? As far as the roller guard, I can take or leave them but with limbs that parallel, I can't see it as a big issue. The issues that Bowtech is having this year seem to be a combination of things that would not apply to your design. As far as built in things, maybe a suppressor that is spring loaded, like the Paradigm or Bow Rattler. Most guys seem to regard a suppressor as standard equipment these days.

Also, according to info from machinists and engineers that I've talked with, 7075 is stronger, but also more brittle than 6061, and transmits more vibration and shock. The last part makes sense if you ever shot a Darton Maverick, which had a 7075 riser, according to most of what I heard.

Best of luck with the design. Maybe for the next model, you can do the shoot through riser and cams, with less parallel limbs.:smile:


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## Bert2 (Feb 16, 2003)

Mathewsju said:


> another way to make it lighter, and stronger is to use 7075 Aluminum rather that 6061 aluminum. you get about 2x the tensile strength with only about a 4% increase in weight per the same volume as 6061


I'm pretty sure strength is not an issue, stiffness is important -- and unfortunately all grades of aluminum have about the same modulus of elasticity so it really isn't going to help

but carbon fiber is a thought . . . 

and by the way I didn't say buy an HCA and be done with it; I said you could use the HCA as a low cost prototype, then improve from there


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

I'd be all over a bow like this and I'd use it for hunting.


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## jcd9toes (Aug 19, 2007)

Q2DEATH said:


> I'd be all over a bow like this and I'd use it for hunting.


X's 2 I think it would be a great hunting bow and would be all over it.


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*Sorry, Bert*

I guess I thought about the overall thing with the NBA post thrown in. Your "try is as a prototype" was definitely different. I apologize for the inaccurate paraphrasing. You are correct in that it would be about as close as you can get with the longer ATA and riser, and roller guard.

Still don't know what cam system maitland is thinking about.


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## Bert2 (Feb 16, 2003)

no worries, it's all good! :darkbeer:


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I really appreciate the great info you guys have. This bow will be out sooner than you think and the riser as far as i know will be the longest in the world and I think it has a lot of advantages. Target colors and camo finishes are what I would like to hear from you now. For hunting I thought about Hardwoods HD because it seems to be a very universal pattern.


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*Camo?*

Whatever pattern breaks up the outline of the bow. Predator is nice, but generally, most potential buyers seem to go for the Realtree/MossyOak families. Gotta sell the bows, so that is important. Black risers seem pretty popular right now.

Cams?


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Please, for hunting, use Predator. That stuff is killer and I think theres only one other company doing it.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I will camo the whole bow. cams and everything.


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## elkman6x6 (Apr 16, 2004)

maitland said:


> Has a 38" ATA. Who would be interested in shooting something like this? It's a split limb bow and drawing is just to give you ideas.


Better get rid of the roller gaurd. It will give you fits with a riser that length.


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## Life1978 (Nov 16, 2008)

I'd be interested in buying one. But I agree I'd love to have and 8 inch brace height. That would be great!


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok I will let the cat out of the bag for a while. Testing will need to be done but this bow might have (and I cant say how) an adjustable brace height from 7 1/2 to 8 inch via the limb support with no affect in draw cycle, just an adjustment in draw weight. Its a long story but you will see. As far as the roller guard, some like it some dont. I think I will have an option on the riser for both. If a guy wants to experiment he can. It will look clean. There will be two fixtures for the stabilizer, one standard under the grip and one approx 3 inches below that for a deeper pendulum feel. Lots of good stuff.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

maitland said:


> Ok I will let the cat out of the bag for a while. Testing will need to be done but this bow might have (and I cant say how) an adjustable brace height from 7 1/2 to 8 inch via the limb support with no affect in draw cycle, just an adjustment in draw weight. Its a long story but you will see. As far as the roller guard, some like it some dont. I think I will have an option on the riser for both. If a guy wants to experiment he can. It will look clean. There will be two fixtures for the stabilizer, one standard under the grip and one approx 3 inches below that for a deeper pendulum feel. Lots of good stuff.


different stabilizer holes a great idea(i would also put that option on the back side of the riser as for v-bar attachments to the back side some prefer a bow with back weight...:wink.....so is the riser gonna be open shelf or shoot thru?...... straight, deflexed, or reflexed?


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## rjs (Apr 7, 2005)

maitland said:


> Ok I will let the cat out of the bag for a while. Testing will need to be done but this bow might have (and I cant say how) an adjustable brace height from 7 1/2 to 8 inch via the limb support with no affect in draw cycle, just an adjustment in draw weight. Its a long story but you will see. As far as the roller guard, some like it some dont. I think I will have an option on the riser for both. If a guy wants to experiment he can. It will look clean. There will be two fixtures for the stabilizer, one standard under the grip and one approx 3 inches below that for a deeper pendulum feel. Lots of good stuff.




OK, now you have me interested too. Ever think of calling it the 60X?? This thing should kill the X's.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

X-RINGER said:


> different stabilizer holes a great idea(i would also put that option on the back side of the riser as for v-bar attachments to the back side some prefer a bow with back weight...:wink.....so is the riser gonna be open shelf or shoot thru?...... straight, deflexed, or reflexed?


ttt..........:smile:


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Here we go.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

reflexed and no shoot thru?.....:sad:


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

I'm glad its not a shoot through. For hunting that would be worthless and for targets...well, I really doubt anyone can truly see a difference in scores because they've got a shoot through riser.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Oh yea, Maitland; do you have someone in line to purchase blocks of aluminum and cnc the risers?


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Make multiple sight holes like pse, keep the shelf of the bow flat not curved. Those of us who prefer dropaways and set up dropaway rests all day are getting tired of these curved shelfs like bowtech and hoyt are doing. Keep it flat and keep the burger hole just high enough that all dropaways can fall flat on the shelf and still go through the burger hole with the arrow. Make the bow so a perfectly torque free grip will put you in the middle of the shelf but make sure to have many other lesser experienced shooters shoot it to make sure that it will tune very close to the center of the shelf. I do not like some of these newer bows that you have to grip way out on the outside of the grip to make them shoot straight. I would also drop the roller gaurd idea. Almost every bow with a roller gaurd likes to tune inside because they torque the riser with the tension on the rollers.


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

Q2DEATH said:


> I'm glad its not a shoot through. For hunting that would be worthless and for targets...well, I really doubt anyone can truly see a difference in scores because they've got a shoot through riser.


well i shoot a bow that has a shoot thru riser for hunting, i see no disadvantages other then loading a second arrow quickly but with time it becomes second nature(and really how often will you get a second chance to shoot another arrow)... one advantage is my arrow will never fall off the shelf and my dropaway will always pick it up, so it's not worthless!....actually the advantages out weight the disavantages!

and as for seeing a difference in scores well tell all those hoyt pro's who are shooting them that a shoot thru riser doesn't make a difference!


i for one know they do....:wink:


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

X-ringer picture the side of the bow being a shoot through. Don't look at it as an open shelf. It would look like this from the side when I build the shoot through. I can build both models without a lot of fixture changing. the slight reflex needs to be there because of the parallel limbs, otherwise its either 10" brace height or 8" limbs. Death I have all the materials and machines but thanks. Sneak it will have a flat shelf. Here is a pic of the cams I am working on. (Dead center of the riser, would not do it any other way). PSE has a patent on multiple sight holes so I would have to speak to them first. The riser will have both options (roller & slide) for the cables. I know exactly what you mean with the roller guard and I think i have a fix for that with this bow. If not, its history.


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

X-RINGER said:


> well i shoot a bow that has a shoot thru riser for hunting, i see no disadvantages other then loading a second arrow quickly but with time it becomes second nature(and really how often will you get a second chance to shoot another arrow)... one advantage is my arrow will never fall off the shelf and my dropaway will always pick it up, so it's not worthless!....actually the advantages out weight the disavantages!
> 
> and as for seeing a difference in scores well tell all those hoyt pro's who are shooting them that a shoot thru riser doesn't make a difference!
> 
> ...


what he said.

shoot thru riser means instantaly ALL arrow rests are full capture

reduces lateral flex

and is a proven X killing machine

but i can see if you cant thread an arrow through a 2" x 6" hole that could be a problem


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

I'll take what Jason is ordering except 8" of brace height


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

maitland said:


> X-ringer picture the side of the bow being a shoot through. Don't look at it as an open shelf. It would look like this from the side when I build the shoot through. I can build both models without a lot of fixture changing. the slight reflex needs to be there because of the parallel limbs, otherwise its either 10" brace height or 8" limbs. Death I have all the materials and machines but thanks. Sneak it will have a flat shelf. Here is a pic of the cams I am working on. (Dead center of the riser, would not do it any other way). PSE has a patent on multiple sight holes so I would have to speak to them first. The riser will have both options (roller & slide) for the cables. I know exactly what you mean with the roller guard and I think i have a fix for that with this bow. If not, its history.


okay now were talking!.....what about a shoot thru cam system?...or at least maybe the option?(for us target shooters).....think about the shoot thru riser and shoot thru cam together, virtually no torque in the bow and imagine the ease of tunability, also there will be no need for slider or roller cable guards, on the target models.

and with the split limbs pay real close attention to the limb pockets.....even with hoyt's triax limb pockets which are the best limb pockets known to man i even have to do some modifying to ensure the limbs are not shifting, during anytime in the process of me shooting the bow.

i'll take the 10 inches of BH, i have a long DL...:wink:

but seriously if anyway possible designing a similar model, but it being a straight riser geometry with still keeping the BH somewhere between 8-9 inches...

...38-40 ATA, 8-9 BH, straight riser geometry, shoot thru riser, and a shoot thru cam system (with a strong wall), integrated grip with sideplate/full grip options to fit anybodies grip style, split limbs (hope they as good as hoyt's...:wink, and the optional stabilizer holes, IBO speed 310-320,........ and if you did.....

.....man that would be the sweetest bow ever!.......i wouldn't care what they cost... send me one of every color option!


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## TAP (May 28, 2002)

maitland said:


> Guys I am glad you brought up the flex in the riser. That is a very big concern with the longer riser bows today. It is not tough to eliminate flex in the riser just attention to detail when designing. This riser will be stiff but will add a few more ounces of weight than a lot of the 29 to 30 inch risers.Using a 30" riser and having a 37 or 38" ATA bow does not give you the full benefit of true parallel limb design. I built my first 29" riser in 2002 and at that time it was almost unheard of. Now it is almost the standard on a lot of bows. Try this sometime- take a string tape one end to the upper limb pocket, pull it tight and tape the other end to the lower pocket. the string also needs to be on the sight window side. draw your bow and see if the string goes limp at all. If it does, your riser is flexing which is a no no.


If you are for real.......I'll take TWO....one in flat black and one in Real Tree camo.

I have HAD it with what I have now, and your above statement is 100% true....

Biuld it, and they will come......(sound familiar?)


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

KurtVL said:


> what he said.
> 
> shoot thru riser means instantaly ALL arrow rests are full capture
> 
> ...


Nice little jab on threading the arrow. Probably shouldn't be debating this on this guys thread but "threading" the arrow would be real easy with a mech. head sitting in a treestand. I just wouldn't want to run the risk of threading my fixed blade head through cables or noisily bouncing it off my rise rafter I've just run a mile and a half and made a mad scramble uphill to cut off some elk. Souds like a major mishap waiting to happen.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

TAP, build it and they will come, just had an insane deja vous!


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

maitland said:


> TAP, build it and they will come, just had an insane deja vous!


well he's right, why has no one ever taken all the best technology and applied it into one bow, for example we have shoot thru cam systems and we have shoot thru risers, why are their no bows with both setups being manufactured into the same bow, imagine could it get any better then that.

i'm die hard hoyt thru and thru but you start building anything like we been discussing and i may have to get my tatoo's remove...:mg:


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

X-RINGER said:


> well he's right, *why has no one ever taken all the best technology and applied it into one bow*, for example we have shoot thru cam systems and we have shoot thru risers, why are their no bows with both setups being manufactured into the same bow, imagine could it get any better then that.
> 
> i'm die hard hoyt thru and thru but you start building anything like we been discussing and i may have to get my tatoo's remove...:mg:


Because there are too many patents to dance around, and too many royalties to pay. This industry is full of litigation. The bow would cost over $1,000 to the dealer and would never turn a profit. Not to mention all the fanboys spouting out how someone copied their beloved bow.

Just venting. I'd love to see the best of all bows wrapped in one nice package. :darkbeer:


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

Q2DEATH said:


> Nice little jab on threading the arrow. Probably shouldn't be debating this on this guys thread but "threading" the arrow would be real easy with a mech. head sitting in a treestand. I just wouldn't want to run the risk of threading my fixed blade head through cables or noisily bouncing it off my rise rafter I've just run a mile and a half and made a mad scramble uphill to cut off some elk. Souds like a major mishap waiting to happen.


Ah Q

it was a friendly jab, besides its bigger than that (not much)

and if you line the inside with felt, (if you buy one ill send you the felt for free)

its Oh so quiet even and even keeps the broadheads from dingin your finish


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

Perfectionist said:


> Because there are too many patents to dance around, and too many royalties to pay. This industry is full of litigation. The bow would cost over $1,000 to the dealer and would never turn a profit. Not to mention all the fanboys spouting out how someone copied their beloved bow.
> 
> Just venting. I'd love to see the best of all bows wrapped in one nice package. :darkbeer:



ya i know there are a ton of patents to get around and royalties would have to be paid.

funny thing is we already have bows that cost over 1000 to the dealer...:mg:

so i would love to see the bow with all the best, but hate to spend the money , but it sure would be awesome, and of course i would buy one cause i couldn't resist!


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

KurtVL said:


> Ah Q
> 
> it was a friendly jab, besides its bigger than that (not much)
> 
> ...


:thumbs_up


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## gdzfast12 (Nov 18, 2008)

Maitland, hey you asked me for names I got one for this 38" bow... "Archangel" I like it so let me know. BTW I really like the drawing this bow is totally up my alley.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Good name, what about 38 special or is that too cowboy?


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

I like this design and have often wondered why no one built this bow.

It's what the Mathews Icon and Conquest could have become, but didn't.

Long riser for torque resistence, good brace height, parallel limbs for comfort.

I too would love a shoot through riser and shoot through cables. 

There are some great ideas in that bow. I hope you get it built.

Good luck,
Allen


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## TAP (May 28, 2002)

whisper............."If you build it, they will come"


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## Kahkon (Jul 22, 2009)

thats close to what I just bought for my new play bow. The problem is I am afraid I will like it more then my reezen.

NEW 05 Martin Shadow Cat 70# Nitrous-X Compound Bow

310 FPS
- 22-32" Draw Length
- 55-70# Draw Length
- 3 lbs, 15.5 oz Mass Weight
- 65% Let-Off
- 7 1/4" Brace Height
- 35 1/2" Axle to Axle

opps, just realized it was a 38 ata with a 36 riser.


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## gdzfast12 (Nov 18, 2008)

maitland said:


> Good name, what about 38 special or is that too cowboy?


thats cool too... I just "arch" angel was kinda cool idk, but i do dig 38 special.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

tap said:


> whisper............."if you build it, they will come"


lol


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## TAP (May 28, 2002)

How about these for names:

the 37" model "Field"
the 34" model "Dreams"

LOL!


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

They will be built and I hope you guys enjoy them.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

*Here is a little eye candy*

This is the first prototype of the approx. 33" bow. 12" split with a nice support mid limb. 7"BH and narrow grip with side plates. Feels very well balanced. Also will come with some titanium hardware like the limb bolts, this really lightens it up. This bow is called the Retribution. It is the flagship of the tactical series bows I am designing. the 38" bow will be the flagship in the precision series of bows.


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

Looks very solid. Should be a good shooter. I can see some general similarities with the BT Captain. Can't wait to see how the longer one turns out. :wink:


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## Kahkon (Jul 22, 2009)

will the Retribution have an option for a shoot through cable system like a nitrous x ? Just have it as an option and let the owner decide what he wants.

Tired of the only shoot though cables being target bows since 2007. There is a crowd of shoot though cable lovers that ain't getting no loving in the tree stands.


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## gdzfast12 (Nov 18, 2008)

maitland said:


> This is the first prototype of the approx. 33" bow. 12" split with a nice support mid limb. 7"BH and narrow grip with side plates. Feels very well balanced. Also will come with some titanium hardware like the limb bolts, this really lightens it up. This bow is called the Retribution. It is the flagship of the tactical series bows I am designing. the 38" bow will be the flagship in the precision series of bows.



Hey maitland if you make that bow as a 33" or 34" ATA ill buy the first one you have for sale. cuz i thought you had planned on it being 32".


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

The riser grew and the limbs a little more preloaded. About 33"ata:smile::smile::smile:


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

FREAK'N AWESOME

(now show me the shoot thru riser with shoot through cam system and split limbs)


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*Very nice!*

When you started the 36" riser thread, I did not expect to see a center pivot, but it is very nice. Center pivot done right, I guess.:wink:

My old eyes can't see the pic too clearly, but it looks like you have a reinforcing bolt or rivet at the base of the limb, but I can't see one at the axle. Is that right, or is it just that I can't see it? Likin' the 4 track cam. Must help with the lean/twist thing.

If it turns out that I CAN retire in June of '10, I will get myself a new bow. Might as well be one of yours, if they are available by then. 

GOOD LUCK, THEY LOOK GREAT!:thumbs_up


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

maitland said:


> I am following you, and I know what you are looking for but a shoot through system would completely eliminate a lot of the long ATA hunters, and some finger shooters. If it is balance you are pursuing there are some millings on the riser that keep weight on certain preferred areas of the bow. Tell me why the shoot through riser is so important and maybe I can be swayed. Give me details.


I am not questioning your authority on bow design. You are more of an expert than I am, but can you further justify your statement. The only reason I ask is because the Martin S4 and all of the Barnsdale bows come with a long ATA and a shoot through system. I know one of the Barnsdale shooters has won many national tournaments as a finger shooter.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

What draw lengths are you planning?
I'm glad to see the split yoke cables.


BTW- I think SuperNova is referring to shoot through cables in his post above.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

supernova said:


> I am not questioning your authority on bow design. You are more of an expert than I am, but can you further justify your statement. The only reason I ask is because the Martin S4 and all of the Barnsdale bows come with a long ATA and a shoot through system. I know one of the Barnsdale shooters has won many national tournaments as a finger shooter.


Most, not all, but most finger shooters are used to an open shelf riser and single sided cable guard system.The benefits of hunting with a shoot thru riser have'nt bloomed in the industry yet! Your mentioning prostaff for the finger shooters and thats why I did'nt mention all finger shooters. Finger shooting is still an art and a release in a shoot thru system has to be perfect. Follow me.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

KurtVL said:


> FREAK'N AWESOME
> 
> (now show me the shoot thru riser with shoot through cam system and split limbs)


We will get there my friend:wink:


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> What draw lengths are you planning?
> I'm glad to see the split yoke cables.
> 
> 
> BTW- I think SuperNova is referring to shoot through cables in his post above.


Every draw known to man:wink:


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

maitland said:


> Most, not all, but most finger shooters are used to an open shelf riser and single sided cable guard system.The benefits of hunting with a shoot thru riser have'nt bloomed in the industry yet! Your mentioning prostaff for the finger shooters and thats why I did'nt mention all finger shooters. Finger shooting is still an art and a release in a shoot thru system has to be perfect. Follow me.


shoot thru riser means built in fully capture arrow, that and it eliminates alot of the riser twist

shoot thru cables are the same as to the shoot thru riser, eliminates torque of cable slide/roller

shoot thru riser/cables would be closer to system perfection.

but so far i want 1 and id be willing to sell my VE and 82nd to get one.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Rember its just a prototype riser, nothing is set in stone. It is mainly for structural testing and balance. This is the basic concept but cams etc.. might be changed at any time thru testing.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I am working on a shoot thru cable and riser system, but it takes time:smile:


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

KurtVL said:


> shoot thru riser means built in fully capture arrow, that and it eliminates alot of the riser twist
> 
> shoot thru cables are the same as to the shoot thru riser, eliminates torque of cable slide/roller
> 
> ...


I do agree.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Very sexy


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

I can see a potential issue with shoot through cables or shoot through riser for finger shooters. It is my understanding that finger shooters require arrow spine to be finely tuned. This allows the arrow to flex and compensate for the side-to-side motion from the fingers. If the cables or shoot through riser is too close together, the fletches (or even the shaft) could make contact, and cause erratic arrow flight.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

The shoot through cable system may not be difficult to achieve with the way he has the cams currently designed. In fact there is nothing to do but make four cables and then use a spacer of some sort which has been done for years.

I've used the Nitrous X cams for years. It makes the wall more solid and there should be zero cam lean. As well as possibly feeling less bow torque. There are some negatives, annoying and actual. Cables possibly touching your forearm could kick the bow at the shot or at the very least be annoying. Fletching hitting the cables is a possibility depending on the space between the cables. Loading arrows with broadheads is a non-issue with shoot-through cables.

The shoot through riser I know nothing about other than it should make the riser stiffer. Whether it's necessary or improves accuracy is for someone else to debate. Either way I don't think I'd fool with a shoot through until I had a successful cable guard model. 

- Speaking of the cable guard. Make it very secure! Also have it so you can move it in closer to the arrow and not just jacked way out. Field and 3D shooters using smaller vanes don't need the cables so far away from the arrow. The closer the better..........



maitland said:


> Every draw known to man:wink:


lain: Some say I don't have a "man" draw length! So you didn't answer my question....................


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> BTW- I think SuperNova is referring to shoot through cables in his post above.


Yes - That's what I was talking about


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks for the input guys. Here is an idea I have. Small modifications to a bow are not really hard to do but you would have to know exactly what you wanted and maybe a sketch or something that when the time comes you could put your own personal touch on the bow before it was built. Ya it would probably take 6 to 8 months to get it and a few hundred dollars more but it could be done. You could own a one of a kind. Imagine your own brace height, custom grip, riser shape, limb angle, ata etc.... I will think about that when the time comes.


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## ddd-shooter (Jan 18, 2009)

maitland said:


> Thanks for the input guys. Here is an idea I have. Small modifications to a bow are not really hard to do but you would have to know exactly what you wanted and maybe a sketch or something that when the time comes you could put your own personal touch on the bow before it was built. Ya it would probably take 6 to 8 months to get it and a few hundred dollars more but it could be done. You could own a one of a kind. Imagine your own brace height, custom grip, riser shape, limb angle, ata etc.... I will think about that when the time comes.


Now THAT would be very cool, and worth buying!!! :wink:


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## LONGSHOT ARTIST (Aug 28, 2007)

KurtVL said:


> FREAK'N AWESOME
> 
> (now show me the shoot thru riser with shoot through cam system and split limbs)





KurtVL said:


> shoot thru riser means built in fully capture arrow, that and it eliminates alot of the riser twist
> 
> shoot thru cables are the same as to the shoot thru riser, eliminates torque of cable slide/roller
> 
> ...


 everything kurt said times ten!



maitland said:


> I am working on a shoot thru cable and riser system, but it takes time:smile:


.....i'm starting to smile more and more.....



maitland said:


> Thanks for the input guys. Here is an idea I have. Small modifications to a bow are not really hard to do but you would have to know exactly what you wanted and maybe a sketch or something that when the time comes you could put your own personal touch on the bow before it was built. Ya it would probably take 6 to 8 months to get it and a few hundred dollars more but it could be done. You could own a one of a kind. Imagine your own brace height, custom grip, riser shape, limb angle, ata etc.... I will think about that when the time comes.


..and you are gonna be my new best friend!.....i have been waiting for someone to ask me to tell them what i would want out of a bow then build it to my specs....and i wouldn't care how much more it cost!..

you keep speaking my language!.....:thumbs_up


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

maitland said:


> Thanks for the input guys. Here is an idea I have. Small modifications to a bow are not really hard to do but you would have to know exactly what you wanted and maybe a sketch or something that when the time comes you could put your own personal touch on the bow before it was built. Ya it would probably take 6 to 8 months to get it and a few hundred dollars more but it could be done. You could own a one of a kind. Imagine your own brace height, custom grip, riser shape, limb angle, ata etc.... I will think about that when the time comes.


So, are you suggesting that you would entertain having certain "stock" limb sizes so that you can customize the brace height depending on your preferences?


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

limbs cut to custom length or riser custom reflex or deflex. Can be done.


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## Aussiebowhunter (Nov 18, 2003)

38" hunting bow would be a dream.

Not much out there for longer draw hunters.

Good work:thumbs_up


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2009)

How much? I will get the patent started. JK. Looks like a sweet bow for the long draw archer though, and I would be interested.:thumbs_up


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

Since my last post was lost in the database issue...

It would be really innovative if you could build a a ramp with a side-to-side adjustment screw (similar to the Britesite pro tuner) to hold a lizard tongue rest, right into the shelf of the bow. A shoot through riser could accommodate this very easily.

This would bring the rest location in line with the throat of the grip, and would have more forgiveness to hand torque. Of course, if you did not want to use the spring steel, you could take it off and use any other rest.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

To be able to convert it from a springy to a fallaway or visa versa and still have standard burger button holes all in one. Very universal, I like that.


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## Deer3083 (Jul 6, 2009)

I cant believe it. Finally a designer with our wants in mind


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## lightbeer (Jan 1, 2009)

I want one
:darkbeer:


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## 18javelin (Aug 13, 2005)

All i can say is WOW.....

add all this with a Good Customer Guarantee and what more could a guy ask for?

Heck he is already buying what he wants if he "builds It" :darkbeer:


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

The innovator and developer of long riser technology. I have and will continue to recreate the industry standard for the benefit of the sport.


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## BAYOUBENGALS (Jan 15, 2003)

Does it have a smooth draw? I will shoot it.


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

Jaben620 said:


> I honestly think that drawing looks awesome. Thatd be a sweet design.


I have to agree


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

It will shoot as good if not better than it looks. It is built for precision.


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## kieran (Dec 26, 2006)

maitland said:


> This is the first prototype of the approx. 33" bow. 12" split with a nice support mid limb. 7"BH and narrow grip with side plates. Feels very well balanced. Also will come with some titanium hardware like the limb bolts, this really lightens it up. This bow is called the Retribution. It is the flagship of the tactical series bows I am designing. the 38" bow will be the flagship in the precision series of bows.


i like the geometry of this riser. not too reflexed either. will the 36/38 version be similar?



maitland said:


> Thanks for the input guys. Here is an idea I have. Small modifications to a bow are not really hard to do but you would have to know exactly what you wanted and maybe a sketch or something that when the time comes you could put your own personal touch on the bow before it was built. Ya it would probably take 6 to 8 months to get it and a few hundred dollars more but it could be done. You could own a one of a kind. Imagine your own brace height, custom grip, riser shape, limb angle, ata etc.... I will think about that when the time comes.


tec-style grip area, radiused shoot-through arrow shelf, 7"BH and 33"DL please.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

kieran said:


> i like the geometry of this riser. not too reflexed either. will the 36/38 version be similar?
> 
> tec-style grip area, radiused shoot-through arrow shelf, 7"BH and 33"DL please.


The 38" will have similarities.


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## crooked stick (Jul 1, 2006)

Another vote for the shoot thrus... I load my arrow from the front versus the rear and it takes about 1 second; non-issue IMO, even for hunting.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I am really going to focus on making the shoot through appealing. I am picturing a very predatory looking cut out on the riser for hunting. The target bow, other than great performance, will be a piece of eye candy.


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

Make one with bigger brace height and longer ata for finger shooters and you would sell them as hardly anyone builds finger bows anymore.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

firemanbrown said:


> Make one with bigger brace height and longer ata for finger shooters and you would sell them as hardly anyone builds finger bows anymore.


Fireman, don't you think 38ATA is long enough?:teeth:


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

38 inch for me is fine, however more of your finger shooters prefer an ATA over 40 inches up to 48 inches. That is why the few out there like the caribou from reflex or the pro tec from hoyt even though they are no longer made have a large following in the finger crowd. Check the finger thread here and you will see posts like no body cares about finger shooters any more, or whats a good finger bow. You check with other finger shooters on here and put up a similar thread in the finger section and you might be suprised at another market you didn't even realize was there. Good luck , Dan.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Here is a SolidWorks early stage drawing of the 36" riser. Ignore the cams they are there for effect. Getting close.


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

looks great i especially like the bottom for some reason.


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## kris bassett (Feb 3, 2006)

When and where can I get one? I need one with a 31.5" draw length.

Looks AWESOME

Kris



maitland said:


> Here is a SolidWorks early stage drawing of the 36" riser. Ignore the cams they are there for effect. Getting close.


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## archer39 (Oct 22, 2007)

Definitly looks like a winner-what kind of speeds can i expect at 29" and 60lbs with 5 grains per


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

I realy like what I am seeing, awesome.


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

bump


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## the wham (Apr 27, 2009)

What a sweet bow. I'll take one in all white with neon green cams and black and neon green strings. Cant wait.


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

bump


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

so you have any dealers lined up yet?


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## the wham (Apr 27, 2009)

I hope that there is a dealer in Oklahoma. I want one of these bows.


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## Hoytshooter56 (Feb 18, 2007)

i would try it


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## arrowblaster (Feb 9, 2004)

SO................ What is the ETA of these bows? Looks like a great idea from where I sit!!! :tongue: :thumbs_up


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

It looks like a shooter!!! I would like to shoot it. :thumb:


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## RobVos (May 23, 2002)

maitland said:


> Here is a SolidWorks early stage drawing of the 36" riser. Ignore the cams they are there for effect. Getting close.


Geometry looks similar to the 2010 Martin Shadowcat. Of course that is a solid-limb bow and not a pivot stype. I think you had your geometry posted prior to the unveiling of the Shadowcat.

I have been checking out your posts and I like what you are doing, some really cool things. Keep up the good work.:thumbs_up


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Yep, I let the cat out of the bag too soon but I think you will be highly impressed with the original technology.:wink:


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## xringbob (Oct 30, 2008)

will there be a 31 to 31.5 draw


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

All draw lengths will be introduced sometime in 2010.


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## RchurE (Mar 20, 2007)

Rob, I gotta say that the dual stabilizer holes on the front of the riser is downright genius. I truly can't believe that isn't the standard now that I think about it. While I like the idea of having one quite a bit lower than the other one, I'd also like it if they were stacked pretty close together, especially on a target bow. That would allow you to put your stabilizer directly to the bow which is most effective and then you could mount a v-bar or side rod mount below it (or above it) and not have to move it to the back of the riser. 

Something else I think is very important is where the grip meets the shelf. I do like the idea of a flat shelf for dropaways and such but I've found that a lot of today's bows have a very abrupt ledge on the thumb side of the grip where the grip ends and the shelf portion of the bow starts. Really it's there on the finger side as well on a lot of bows. Hoyt's Elite grips have a rounded sweep there and I think that makes a big difference in grip comfort. That one may be hard to explain so let me know if I'm not making any sense. I can do a photo illustration if need be.


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

RchurE said:


> Rob, I gotta say that the dual stabilizer holes on the front of the riser is downright genius. I truly can't believe that isn't the standard now that I think about it. While I like the idea of having one quite a bit lower than the other one, I'd also like it if they were stacked pretty close together, especially on a target bow. That would allow you to put your stabilizer directly to the bow which is most effective and then you could mount a v-bar or side rod mount below it (or above it) and not have to move it to the back of the riser.
> 
> Something else I think is very important is where the grip meets the shelf. I do like the idea of a flat shelf for dropaways and such but I've found that a lot of today's bows have a very abrupt ledge on the thumb side of the grip where the grip ends and the shelf portion of the bow starts. Really it's there on the finger side as well on a lot of bows. Hoyt's Elite grips have a rounded sweep there and I think that makes a big difference in grip comfort. That one may be hard to explain so let me know if I'm not making any sense. I can do a photo illustration if need be.


I agree with you on the grip, Hoyt has an great grip. But I think that the PSE Mojo has a better one. The way they cut the grip at the shelf is extremely natural feeling. Check one out and you'll know what I mean. The first time it was shown to me, I was impressed.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I know exactly what you are talking about. I will tinker!


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

Just dont dinkle im not changing diapers....


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

"tinkle"


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

bump


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Lol


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## alaz (Mar 8, 2009)

maitland said:


> This is the first prototype of the approx. 33" bow. 12" split with a nice support mid limb. 7"BH and narrow grip with side plates. Feels very well balanced. Also will come with some titanium hardware like the limb bolts, this really lightens it up. This bow is called the Retribution. It is the flagship of the tactical series bows I am designing. the 38" bow will be the flagship in the precision series of bows.


Very cool design. Looking forward to see final product...
All matte black...:teeth:


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

Just some input from a long ATA bow shooter, FWIW>

Last bow was a BT Commander. 3 Track binary, the cam is very wide to accommodate the outside cable being pilled over to the guide. This bow is an absolute natural for a shoot-thru, folks are converting them here on AT. The problem that bow had for me was limb twist and weight. Probably the quietest bow I ever shot. Sold that bow.

My current bow is an Elite XLR, 2 track binary, single cable track on the riser side, cables only need to be pulled a very short distance, awesome design. The only issue I have with this bow is noise, it's loud compared to the commander.

My perfect bow would be a 3 track binary cam like the Commander, except the cam would be very narrow, so that a solid limb could be used. There would be a center cable spreader spool. Pick the diameter of the spool based on your vane clearance needs, small for target vanes, larger for hunting vanes. No shoot through riser (?) it's easy to feed an arrow in back wards through the cables, but much more of a pain through the riser. Now how to make it quiet? Does the center pivot make the Commander quite, or is it the bow's heavy mass? Don't know, but the bow needs to be about 4.5 lbs and deadly silent. Make this bow and I'll be in line for it.

Icing on the cake would be a built-in drop away arrow rest that held the arrow precisely at the vertical pivot point of the bow (slight back from the berger hole for a low wrist grip), spring steel launcher, drops instantly on the shot. (I don't believe in the long guide theory) adequate containment. (this type of rest does not exist in the market today) This would just be a bow option, any aftermarket rest could be attached.


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## 72Beetle (Nov 10, 2008)

Smooth is what I am looking for I do not care about brand A, B, C I have shot many different kinds and will shoot what I like period. My issue is dl my actual measured DL is 32.75" I usually am more comfortable at 32" I am more relaxed. I have a hard time getting a lower poundage bow because most of the time when I get below 60 the limbs start to crack (all types) I have a Hoyt UltraTec and several Elites and some Hybrids that I have built with parts. So the ATA has not made a diff to me for indoor or 3D my DL usually means it will be 37"+ avg anyway. It needs to fit my draw and be smooth. I do not want to fight holding it at full draw it should be relaxed and not wanting to take off without me. Now if that is what you are building then I am in. Your design so far looks good, speed is not an issue at my DL, I already have a speed bow that I doubt anyone can beat at the moment. Smooth and comfortable is where it is at. I really like you ideas and designs from all that I have seen. Keep it up.


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)




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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

0.1


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

0.2


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

10o.0


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

What are you doing dude?


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

works the same as a bump just more fun


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

Anything new here?

Just askin:dontknow:


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

the date


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

*Hell yea*

I would love to try this bow as a Finger bow the specs look good and I am always looking to try someting new. Send one on out here and I will give it a try and send it back when I am done with the feed back.

Paul Coleman


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

*Progress?*

Hey Maitland, any progress on the 36" Riser I would love to see some pics.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Progress every day my friend. We are getting closer.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

*What would be really interesting...*

if you could develop a cam system where the eccentric payout and takeup were the same track (similar to the Elite cams), but have a track on both sides of the string track. Therefor there would be 2 control cables, one on each side of the cam. For example, on the left side of the cam, the payout would be on the bottom cam, and the takeup would be on the top... and vice versa on the right side. A cable splitter roller guard would provide fletch clearance.


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## thespyhunter (Apr 8, 2005)

That is a very nice looking bow. 
I for one like longer bows as well. Especially for hunting.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Perfectionist said:


> if you could develop a cam system where the eccentric payout and takeup were the same track (similar to the Elite cams), but have a track on both sides of the string track. Therefor there would be 2 control cables, one on each side of the cam. For example, on the left side of the cam, the payout would be on the bottom cam, and the takeup would be on the top... and vice versa on the right side. A cable splitter roller guard would provide fletch clearance.


A shoot through cable system with payouts?


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## archery ham (Jul 26, 2007)

Maitland "Matrix". I like that name. What say you?

Pearson made a 38 Special. Not a good idea to go with that one.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

I believe this one is going to be called "ZEUS"


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

ZEUS is correct, ZEUS II will be the shoot through riser.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

maitland said:


> A shoot through cable system with payouts?


Yes. But there would be 4 cables, instead of 2. Kind of like a mirrored binary cam.

The payout of the top left would connect to the takeup on the bottom left. The takeup on the top left would connect to the payout on the bottom left. Same two things for the right.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I think separating the cables on the current art to the outsides of the limbs would work well too.


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## champus (May 28, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> if you could develop a cam system where the eccentric payout and takeup were the same track (similar to the Elite cams), but have a track on both sides of the string track. Therefor there would be 2 control cables, one on each side of the cam. For example, on the left side of the cam, the payout would be on the bottom cam, and the takeup would be on the top... and vice versa on the right side. A cable splitter roller guard would provide fletch clearance.



Have a look at this patent number, the last drawing describes your suggestion.

US020090188482A1

This is the Strother patent.


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

Oh if you are going to go with a god with the power of lightning you could at least go with THOR. Go Norse instead of greek.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

VanRijn said:


> Oh if you are going to go with a god with the power of lightning you could at least go with THOR. Go Norse instead of greek.


THOR would be a great name for a speed bow. not for the forgiving long ata bow


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

so you are suggesting changing the retribution to the THOR huh?


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

VanRijn said:


> so you are suggesting changing the retribution to the THOR huh?


no I would be suggesting that he make a third bow!


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

How about a ladies bow by the name of ARTEMIS, she is the Greek goddess of the hunt.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

very nice


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

VanRijn said:


> Oh if you are going to go with a god with the power of lightning you could at least go with THOR. Go Norse instead of greek.


It was going to be the Titan but that is already taken. Zeus conquered the titans anyway. Thor is a great name for a speed bow.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

*A rose by any other name...........*

Lets just get it built so I can shoot the darn thing, then its name will be sweetness!!!!!! no matter what model it is.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

patience grass hopper


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Lol


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## archerdad (Oct 17, 2002)

really cool looking riser. i like it.


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

There is no Zeus only Zuul


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

Patience My arse I need to Kill something!!


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## soonerboy (Sep 6, 2004)

To post #195. The name "Sweetness" is already taken but I'm sure that Walter Payton would allow it if the bow is a Sweet shooter.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

well I know a guy from romania that used chains and a knife to hunt with since weapons were outlawed there. you could kill with those like he did. lol! jk we are all anxious for these they look very very good. I talked to maitland the other day and his mfg process and tolerances are the best out there. these bow are going to be fantastic.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

japple said:


> well I know a guy from romania that used chains and a knife to hunt with since weapons were outlawed there. you could kill with those like he did. lol! jk we are all anxious for these they look very very good. I talked to maitland the other day and his mfg process and tolerances are the best out there. these bow are going to be fantastic.


No Doubt, That is why we are all so impatient. Oh wait it is just me, They say Patience is a virtue, unfortunatly it is not one of MINE.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

it isnt one of mine either but I like to preach it to other people! lol


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

lets keep this up top. for an awesome looking bow


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

bumpapalouza


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## WCH (Aug 1, 2006)

18javelin said:


> I like it minus the roller gaurd. maybe a little more aggressive cam system. But the speed dont mean as much to me really as having a solid wall and a good valley.
> 
> build it with quality materials and i would buy it.
> 
> ...


Alpine makes a 36.5 inch bow with a 7 3/8 brace height.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

champus said:


> Have a look at this patent number, the last drawing describes your suggestion.
> 
> US020090188482A1
> 
> This is the Strother patent.


Can you provide a link to this patent? I am searching the US Patent and Trademark Office database and cannot find it under that number...


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## Tmaziarz (Mar 16, 2008)

*why dont they use Titauium ( spelled wrong)*



maitland said:


> 7075 is twice the price


TItaneium riser? I know the cost but when I raced snowmobile, that they made some parts out of T1 to make lighter and stronger....


Make the T1 riser special order only



Those limbs been tested? seems close to end where the stress point would be.

I wish more companies would make handles straight up and down more like the Hoyt's with side plates. I hate even a little high wrist.


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## PB26 (Dec 31, 2006)

This is awesome stuff. :darkbeer:


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Ti has too much flex/spring for a riser and the machining would kill you on price, but would be good for smaller components.


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## Tmaziarz (Mar 16, 2008)

*cant believe flex in T1*



maitland said:


> Ti has too much flex/spring for a riser and the machining would kill you on price, but would be good for smaller components.


Can't believe there would be more flex in T1 than alumiun.

I think they say twice as strong and lighter than alumium.


People are willing to pay $1,500 for a carbon Hoyt that might crack and is not even that fast.

Make the strongest riser, long ATA with speed, smooth draw with a slim handle that is straight( no angle) like the Hoyts with side plates and I am ready to buy

:shade:


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## Tmaziarz (Mar 16, 2008)

*Not at 330 fps*



WCH said:


> Alpine makes a 36.5 inch bow with a 7 3/8 brace height.


not a speed bow and I hate the high grip slippery hanndles.

I love the Alpine venture. I wish they would offer a different type handle and not that wood. Maybe side plate and NO high wrist. Yes, they offer a low wrist wood handle


Other than the Handle Alpine makes a very good bow.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Tmaziarz said:


> Can't believe there would be more flex in T1 than alumiun.
> 
> I think they say twice as strong and lighter than alumium.
> 
> ...


It is stronger, you can bend it farther and it wont break, 6061 has the benefits of rigidity but will break if flexed like Ti. they are two different animals. Here is a price example, Standard Limb bolt $1 same Limb bolt in Ti $12 and you cant just get them anywhere.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Todd, I tried to design around the hardcore bow hunter and hardcore target archer. You will like the final design.:smile:


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

we gonna see the cams soon?


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

VanRijn said:


> we gonna see the cams soon?


Soon we will have cams.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

I have never been more excited about seeing a new bow hit the market. The first of the year isnt coming soon enough for sure.


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

Is there a Proto of this bow yet?

I would love to see it...:tongue:


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

bumpalisious.


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## Extreme vft17 (Mar 29, 2007)

*Awesome*

looking bows


if you build it they will come (out of the woodwork)

I will keep my eye on this post!


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

Lets keep it on the front page!!!


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

Zeus commands you to keep checking...


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

maitland said:


> Soon we will have cams.


I wonder what soon means


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

Back to the front, dont like looking for this post


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## bigdogarcher (Jan 29, 2008)

Yep, I'd try it id it came in a 31" DL.


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## Arrowflngr (Apr 17, 2009)

maitland said:


> If it had a built in adapter or accessory bracket incorporated into the riser what would you choose? It can be anything from stabilizer holes to vibration dampening to a sight or rest position. Remember, anything can be accomplished.


Multiple sight mounting holes vertically so the sight can match high/low anchors.
look good, Id loose the roller guard too.


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

drum roll please............................................................TTT


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## crodeo (Oct 30, 2009)

Looking forward to your product launch. Bows look great!


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## nickster (Jun 30, 2007)

*very nice*

looks great can't waite to see one :thumbs_up


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks guys, About mid Dec. I will post the final product.


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

you sure you posted this in the right one maitland cause we havent seen a single prototype for the Zeus.


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## PB26 (Dec 31, 2006)

Wondering if your cams will have modules, or fixed draw. If modules, my vote is in for a smooth and speed mod option, like the Bowtechs and Elites used to have. Us target only folks get worn down with the ripper cams.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

PB26 said:


> Wondering if your cams will have modules, or fixed draw. If modules, my vote is in for a smooth and speed mod option, like the Bowtechs and Elites used to have. Us target only folks get worn down with the ripper cams.


They will have rotating modules.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Here are a few up to date SolidWorks drawings of the Zeus riser and grip logo.


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## PB26 (Dec 31, 2006)

Very nice. :darkbeer:


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

i kinda liked the name you said earlier for your target line (precision series.)


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

cant wait to see that thing in target colors.


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## alaz (Mar 8, 2009)

very cool.
Awesome to see the design process!


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## crodeo (Oct 30, 2009)

Nice! :thumbs_up


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

Im loving it!


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

gonna be cool to see this one with the limbs on it


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## the wham (Apr 27, 2009)

Man is that a sweet bow caint wait to see one and try it out. Keep up the good work.


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

I love the look of the cams on the other post, Looking forward to seeing a prototype of this bow!!!


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

so have you decided on some target colors????


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## kevin39208 (Sep 22, 2006)

*Dealers?*

Do you have any dealers in the Southeast lined up yet? Do you have an approximate timeline in 2010 when these good looking bows will be released?


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## alaz (Mar 8, 2009)

VanRijn said:


> so have you decided on some target colors????


That is what I'll like to see...


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Here is the Zeus. Camo and target colors in a week. I just wanted to post these pics to hold you off for a little while.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Few More.


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## bowaholic77 (Jul 27, 2006)

HA HA! First to see them and comment!! That bow looks awesome!! Any plans on shooting a short video of someone shooting the bow so we can all see it in action?


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

man that cable slide barely moves doesnt it?


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

Rob,
Great job !! :thumbs_up
That is one great looking bow !! 

One question though ..Are you going to have a string suppressor on your bows ?? 

Do you have any pics of the Retribution ??


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

Please consider for future versions (Options) a shoot-thru, three track binary cam set-up. No horizontal nock travel, is very good for big fixed blade broadheads.

What are the draw lengths for this bow?


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## tarvercc (Sep 7, 2009)

I love it, cant wait to try it out...


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

Wow, that does look nice! Good to see some options for us long draw guys. I need a 32" DL. Any idea on the speed?


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

Longbow42 said:


> Wow, that does look nice! Good to see some options for us long draw guys. I need a 32" DL. Any idea on the speed?


At 32" you should break the sound barrier, so much for quiet bows


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## d_read (Sep 17, 2009)

Man that thing looks sweet....


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## grizzlyplumber (Jul 21, 2005)

That is awesome. Im sad that you dumped the rollerguard. Also curious to know the IBO and get an idea on when and where available. Those cams look very specific to draw length, how hard would it be to allow for mods to make it more easily adjustable?


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## alaz (Mar 8, 2009)

grizzlyplumber said:


> That is awesome. Im sad that you dumped the rollerguard. Also curious to know the IBO and get an idea on when and where available. Those cams look very specific to draw length, how hard would it be to allow for mods to make it more easily adjustable?


On the close up of the cams it seems that there is some adjustment to them.
I, personally like a cable slide to a roller guard...

The bow looks awesome at full draw...though your thumb looks to be on the wrong side
I think something is backward... Not easy to be lefty I guess in a righty world

I believe you had said the ATA is 38 on this bow..., any other specs yet. The draw stops on the cables...right, any plans to do that on the limbs.

Very cool to see this bow together!


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## crodeo (Oct 30, 2009)

Looks great Rob! Can't wait to see it and the Retribution with some camo in person.


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## ac777 (Nov 13, 2008)

Looks great, keep up the good work look forward to repping for you in 2010


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

In regards to your target colors on the Zeus I think it would be pretty cool to offer the option of having the cams anodized the same color as the riser similar to the picture of a bow that Pimp my Bow did ...

Little too much Blue for my taste but you get the idea ..


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

Hit-em said:


> In regards to your target colors on the Zeus I think it would be pretty cool to offer the option of having the cams anodized the same color as the riser similar to the picture of a bow that Pimp my Bow did ...
> 
> Little too much Blue for my taste but you get the idea ..


I didn't know Liberace' shot a bow.:wink:


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## wintgu (Nov 28, 2007)

Thank you Maitland,

the new pictures are a nice Christmas present. Zeus looks great. 
Now back to technical aspects. Is there any dampening material where the limbs lie on the cross bolt? Could this little peg on the bottom cam be a kind of adjustable draw stop after all? I personally like well rounded edges at the contact surface of the grip. Let us have a perfect polish on the riser and an anodized finish in target colours as an option. Take care that there will be no vibration in your new turnable limb bolt block.

wintgu


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

WOW!!!!!

I knew that Zeus would look great! but that is awesome

I can't wait to hold one of them bad boys!


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

Rob, what's the weight of bow?

I just keep staring!!!!!:77:


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

Longbow42 said:


> I didn't know Liberace' shot a bow.:wink:


Hey, I'm not going to discriminate !!


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

Nice job.


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## TheGorK (Jan 4, 2009)

*Awesome*

I have not been around archery long, but that is the best looking bow I have ever seen.....and it's not even close!


----------



## ParadigmArchery (Sep 3, 2008)

Wow that is a beauty ....can't wait to see the finished product. :thumbs_up

That riser is a beast !!, nice and thick....It's gotta be super stiff. 

Lots of great bows out there for 2010, but IMO It's going to be a close contest for the sexiest bow of the year between the Maitland Zeus and the Rytera Nemeses. :darkbeer:


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## Archer 1 (Feb 10, 2005)

TheGorK said:


> I have not been around archery long, but that is the best looking bow I have ever seen.....and it's not even close!


I have been around archery for a very long time and that is the best looking bow I have ever seen.I dont even care about the tecnical stuff!Just the looks of this bow are enough to make me want one!The new year hasnt even started yet and I can tell that the bank account is gonna take a hit!


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Threw some accessories on I had around so you can size it up a little and get ideas.


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## PB26 (Dec 31, 2006)

Very nice!


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

That is one SICK looking bow! I can't wait to shoot that thing! The retribution is gonna look sexy laying next to a dead bison next fall too!


----------



## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

Sorry don't want to search this whole thread,, what are the specs and IBO of the bow pictured above? That is one nice looking bow.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

38 ata, 7.5 brace and I think 330fps unless Maitland has changed somethings since we talked.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

he has a short one that is 33 ata and 7 in brace as well.


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

the 38" with 7.5" and 330 fps is what I like.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

This bow is going to be a great shooter! the bow will be insanely stable! a 36 inch riser on a 38 inch bow is unheard of! This bow will drive tacks!!


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

how long will it take to get them onto the market?


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

Rob is releasing at the ATA show. I think reps will have bows and hitting the dealers soon after that. I am sure Rob will answer all your questions as well with more up to date info. but this was my understanding from talking to him!


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

I am still working on the exact specs. By February I should be able to fit a large range of draw lengths with two cam sizes. The bare bow weighs 4.8lbs. The bow is virtually shock and vibration free. With these accessories mounted there is no shock or vibration or torque...I mean none.....zip....nada! I don't know if this is good or bad but during a test shot, the arrow left the bow and I couldn't tell until it hit the target. The LONGRISER technology I have incorporated into these bows has accomplished everything it was meant too. But I will say with all this hi-tech engineering I still like Cat Whiskers on my string for silencing, go figure.:teeth:


----------



## Archer 1 (Feb 10, 2005)

It may have been asked already but how does the Zeus balance with nothing on it(top heavy or sit fairly straight.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Archer 1 said:


> It may have been asked already but how does the Zeus balance with nothing on it(top heavy or sit fairly straight.


Sits very straight.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

white.greg said:


> Please consider for future versions (Options) a shoot-thru, three track binary cam set-up. No horizontal nock travel, is very good for big fixed blade broadheads.
> 
> What are the draw lengths for this bow?


The Zeus II will be a shoot through riser. It will be a limited run for the guys who want one. I will take interest in January.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

Rob this bow looks amazingly good! I can't wait to get them in my hands! Any decisions on camo patterns and target colors yet?


----------



## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

japple said:


> Rob this bow looks amazingly good! I can't wait to get them in my hands! Any decisions on camo patterns and target colors yet?


I have changed my mind a few times on camo, but I am starting to like Tru Timber XD3 and target colors are still up in the air.


----------



## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

where did you place the grip throat in relation to the axles (centered)?

Distance from grip throat to plunger hole?


----------



## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Bob_Looney said:


> where did you place the grip throat in relation to the axles (centered)?
> 
> Distance from grip throat to plunger hole?


Cable tracks are centered on the axles so string tracks are off set. This eliminated cam lean. Then the riser was offset to center the string at the grip and stabilizer positions. 1 1/2" from center of hole to top of grip.


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

I was wondering if you lowered the grip to below center like Mathews or centered it like Hoyt? Looks to be below center...

Limbs floating over the pivots and tied down at the limb bolts or pinned at the pivots and floating at the bolt end?


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Bob_Looney said:


> I was wondering if you lowered the grip to below center like Mathews or centered it like Hoyt? Looks to be below center...
> 
> Limbs floating over the pivots and tied down at the limb bolts or pinned at the pivots and floating at the bolt end?


Center shot is just below the burger. Pinned at bolt end, floating at pivot rocker.


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## BoCoMo (Sep 28, 2008)

These bows look awesome. Just what the consumer wanted.

When and where can we shoot one?


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## VanRijn (Jan 18, 2008)

having the dual stabilizer mount could make for some sweet set ups. plus if you are into hunting with long bows you could have a bow mounted camcorder and still have a stabilizer on the bow.


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

Looks great! A little on the heavy side though?

Never heard of that camo pattern?


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

All this talk is giving me a "semi" send mine in Flatest Black.


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

Checked out the camo; not too bad. A little on the dark side IMO. The long tree trunks might not print well on a riser through? I like Predator or ASAT for treestands and ground.


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## ac777 (Nov 13, 2008)

Longbow42 said:


> Checked out the camo; not too bad. A little on the dark side IMO. The long tree trunks might not print well on a riser through? I like Predator or ASAT for treestands and ground.


I agree, Predator would look awesome and be more effective as well.


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

I agree I think the True Timber XD3 is to dark ..

I think Ultimate Camo would look awesome on the limbs with a Black Riser !!


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

while many people agree that predator and asat are probably the best camo pattern available, and the looks of the pattern grow on people. The pattern lacks eye appeal and when a bow is on the shelf it needs eye appeal! When I worked in a proshop camo patterns with eye appeal helped sell the bow! A manufacturer has to provide this for the shops if they want to sell bows. Plus asat and predator lack some marketing power, they are doing better with this but main stream companies I.e. ( real tree and mossy oak) carry alot of marketing with them. This is an unfortunate situation but it is the way it is.


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

japple said:


> while many people agree that predator and asat are probably the best camo pattern available, and the looks of the pattern grow on people. The pattern lacks eye appeal and when a bow is on the shelf it needs eye appeal! When I worked in a proshop camo patterns with eye appeal helped sell the bow! A manufacturer has to provide this for the shops if they want to sell bows. Plus asat and predator lack some marketing power, they are doing better with this but main stream companies I.e. ( real tree and mossy oak) carry alot of marketing with them. This is an unfortunate situation but it is the way it is.


Yep, japple hit the nail on the head with this post...


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

HCAman said:


> Yep, japple hit the nail on the head with this post...


I agree to a point as well, but if that's the case, why are they looking at Tru Timber camo? I never heard of it.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

Longbow42 said:


> I agree to a point as well, but if that's the case, why are they looking at Tru Timber camo? I never heard of it.


I imagine he is considering this because of its eye appeal. Most camo is designed to be sold 2 feet away from the buyers eye. And at that distance I am sure this pattern looks very good. it all comes down to eye appeal and marketing! it might be quite a bit cheaper to license this camo for film dipping as well which helps on production costs and keeps eye appeal. I have seriously discussed camp patterns with Rob in a while so I don't know what he is thinking at this point!


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## rogbo (Jan 2, 2004)

It really seems like Maitland has taken the requests and advice of the archery community to heart with this bow. congratulations! I'll be vrey interested to see a proto of the Zeus 2. You know I've always been interested in a black risered bow with wood grain dipped limbs.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

A custom dip is not out of the question. I will do this for you but remember the extra setup time to do an individual camo job and pad that into the cost. What do they charge when you send your bow off to have it custom dipped? I'm sure that it wont cost as much being that they dont have to strip it down. I use Oregon Hydrographics and you can find them on the net. He has a lot of patterns to choose from and is a great guy to work with. Look at his website and let me know when you order what pattern you would like and he does have Predator. In January I will take early interest orders and you can let me know then.


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

japple said:


> I imagine he is considering this because of its eye appeal. Most camo is designed to be sold 2 feet away from the buyers eye. And at that distance I am sure this pattern looks very good. it all comes down to eye appeal and marketing! it might be quite a bit cheaper to license this camo for film dipping as well which helps on production costs and keeps eye appeal. I have seriously discussed camp patterns with Rob in a while so I don't know what he is thinking at this point!


This is correct.


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

Maitland,

Any chance you could have some bows anodized with a Type III finish ?
It is available in gloss black, matte black, Gray, and Green.
Type III isn't too much higher in cost than the frail Type II and dipped finishes :thumbs_do found on all other bows.
I always felt a Type III anodized bow would have a huge "one up" on any other bow made as it's ten times tougher ! :thumbs_up (especially for hunting)  
I, for one, love the weight of your bows as I always said...
A bow has to have some weight to it, if it's constructed the way it should be.


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

maitland said:


> A custom dip is not out of the question. I will do this for you but remember the extra setup time to do an individual camo job and pad that into the cost. What do they charge when you send your bow off to have it custom dipped? I'm sure that it wont cost as much being that they dont have to strip it down. I use Oregon Hydrographics and you can find them on the net. He has a lot of patterns to choose from and is a great guy to work with. Look at his website and let me know when you order what pattern you would like and he does have Predator. In January I will take early interest orders and you can let me know then.


Wow, that is a great option to offer! I can't wait for that bow.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

*Ttt*

less than a week till the New Year And still no pics of complete bow, Your Killing Me


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

wirenut583 said:


> less than a week till the New Year And still no pics of complete bow, Your Killing Me


I think that he is still tinkering with the cam timing/etc? I want to see it too.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

I know he is working hard to get the bows to Market, I am just trying to be imaginative in my bumps to keep the interest.


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

maitland said:


> The Zeus II will be a shoot through riser. It will be a limited run for the guys who want one. I will take interest in January.


Awsome!

Now if it can use a solid limb, center track binary cam with a cable separater like the one Walks with a GI made http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1061035
and go up to a 31 or 31.5" draw length, then sign me up. 

Actually I'm less concerned with the shoot thru riser as the shoot thru cables, whichever one makes the overall bow lighter.

OK, I'll wait by the mailbox now.


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

The shoot thru riser sounds awesome to me too. :thumbs_up
Look forward to the pics !


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

Another thing that would be an advantage is making the grip area of the riser compatible with the no torque, "Death Grip". Check out their video, pretty convincing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3P3sP4G9-E


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

*Ttt*

How did wwe let this thread get to page 3, that is just ridiculus


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

wirenut583 said:


> How did wwe let this thread get to page 3, that is just ridiculus


I guess I should post some finished product of here soon. Looks like it will be next week.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

Thanks Rob, now I wont be able to sleep till then. good thing it is a long weekend


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## Archer74 (Mar 22, 2008)

Great looking bow. I am impressed how you seriously listened to and considered all the feedback. I have been disappointed with the trend towards shorter ATA the past couple years.

Any estimate on the pricing? 

Best of luck. The best way to success (especially when starting out) is to provide customers what they want.


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## haus (Dec 22, 2009)

maitland said:


> I am still working on the exact specs. By February I should be able to fit a large range of draw lengths with two cam sizes.....QUOTE]
> 
> ....up to 32"? :whip2: don't leave the big kids and knuckle draggers out


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## Longbow42 (Oct 31, 2008)

haus said:


> maitland said:
> 
> 
> > I am still working on the exact specs. By February I should be able to fit a large range of draw lengths with two cam sizes.....QUOTE]
> ...


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## Oregon HG (Mar 22, 2008)

japple said:


> while many people agree that predator and asat are probably the best camo pattern available, and the looks of the pattern grow on people. The pattern lacks eye appeal and when a bow is on the shelf it needs eye appeal! When I worked in a proshop camo patterns with eye appeal helped sell the bow! A manufacturer has to provide this for the shops if they want to sell bows. Plus asat and predator lack some marketing power, they are doing better with this but main stream companies I.e. ( real tree and mossy oak) carry alot of marketing with them. This is an unfortunate situation but it is the way it is.



On the Flip side, you walk into a proshop that lets say carries 5 company lines and they all blend into each other on the wall, if 1 company had Predator or ASAT they would stick out and grab your attention!


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## Oregon HG (Mar 22, 2008)

wirenut583 said:


> less than a week till the New Year And still no pics of complete bow, Your Killing Me


Camo Bows are finished! Will be shipping back to Rob Monday the 4th OVERNIGHT! We are pushing hard to get these back to him with the ATA show right around the corner!!!! He could have Pics up soon aslong as he finds the time between receiving them, assembly, then leaving for ATA!!! Busy time of year!!!


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

Oregon HG said:


> On the Flip side, you walk into a proshop that lets say carries 5 company lines and they all blend into each other on the wall, if 1 company had Predator or ASAT they would stick out and grab your attention!


I agree, but after working in a proshop that sells ASAT and predator, we actually had to SELL asat and predator. people wanted something else and we would then give them the ASAT sales pitch. While alot of people tried it and bought it and loved it, alot of people didnt even want to mess with it. From a proshop perspective when you are introducing a new product you have alot of selling to do anyway when people walk in wanting to buy brand X. Without name recognition you have to SELL and you don't want to add more sell to the product. If mathews or hoyt put asat or predator on their bows they would still sell like crazy because they are hoyt and mathews.


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

Oregon HG said:


> Camo Bows are finished! Will be shipping back to Rob Monday the 4th OVERNIGHT! We are pushing hard to get these back to him with the ATA show right around the corner!!!! He could have Pics up soon aslong as he finds the time between receiving them, assembly, then leaving for ATA!!! Busy time of year!!!


AWESOME! Can't wait to get a couple!


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

Happy New Year to all!! I'm looking forward to what the new year will bring with Maitland USA Archery.


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## Ryan.Johnson (Nov 9, 2006)

He will be at the ATA? I hope so. I would love to get one!!!


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

yes he will be at the ATA


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## Ryan.Johnson (Nov 9, 2006)

Can some one send me a PM about pricing for this bow? Very interested. Plan on coming home with a new bow from the ata and this looks like the ticket.


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## AGPank (Sep 5, 2008)

*Great looking bow*

I wish you the best of luck. The specs look like a couple of the bows I'm looking at for this year.


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## Arrowflngr (Apr 17, 2009)

That Zeus has to be one of if not the best lookin bow this year. WOW.
If theres a dealer here Id order from him.


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## cuttingedge (Feb 19, 2005)

*A plug for Rob*

I just wanted to add a comment. I had a question about Maitland bows. I sent a pm and in less than 20 minutes I had a reply from Rob himself. How refreshing. I don't even own the bow yet (but I am now certain I will) and I got prompt attention. If the customer service is this responsive what a company! Thanks Rob! Can't wait to get my new Maitland!!!


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

Rob,
This is the Orange I was talking about in regards to my Zeus.
I think it would be an Awesome looking target color option for the Zeus !!


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

I am thinking that orange for a base color of the hippie camo for my target bow!


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## *ProLine* (Oct 10, 2007)

*Yeip*

On their way Rob!!


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Hit-em said:


> Rob,
> This is the Orange I was talking about in regards to my Zeus.
> I think it would be an Awesome looking target color option for the Zeus !!


Looks like a burnt orange.... I like that..... I will do some research.


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## Neuralgia (Mar 25, 2008)

*ProLine* said:


> On their way Rob!!


hmmmmm, proline strings.

great match!

looking forward for target colors


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## shootthewhatnow (Jan 29, 2008)

maitland said:


> The Zeus II will be a shoot through riser. It will be a limited run for the guys who want one. I will take interest in January.


Hey there...

Any chance on a sneak peak for your thoughts/musings/diagrams on the shootthru?


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## white.greg (Mar 15, 2007)

shootthewhatnow said:


> Hey there...
> 
> Any chance on a sneak peak for your thoughts/musings/diagrams on the shootthru?


I think we should start a Zeus II thread to collect our thoughts and potential input into the design. Keep it in Manufacturers section, What do you think?


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

I'm one for letting Rob get the Zeus to market and knocking the industry on its ear


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## japple (Oct 3, 2002)

I don't think you have long to wait wirenut. He should have recieved the risers and strings today. and should be assembling them. we should see some sample pictures before he leaves for the ATA.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

japple said:


> I don't think you have long to wait wirenut. He should have recieved the risers and strings today. and should be assembling them. we should see some sample pictures before he leaves for the ATA.


That right there puts a smile on my face. thanks Japple


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## Twiztd1 (Oct 17, 2002)

Rob, I'm sure you are as busy as rooster in the hen house. Any chance of getting a shorter ATA in between the Zeus and the Retribution? That category goes unfilled by almost all of the Manufacturers out there. I am pumped to get more info on your product line. I wish I was going to the ATA this year but it isn't in the cards. 

Good Luck in Indy knock em dead.

Has Nat Gear ever been considered as a camo for the bows?


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## BodiBuilt (Dec 19, 2009)

:moviecorn


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## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Finished Bows posted on new thread.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

maitland said:


> Finished Bows posted on new thread.


 And You have got to check them out the look Great.


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## tedlebo (Jul 5, 2005)

maitland said:


> Has a 38" ATA. Who would be interested in shooting something like this? It's a split limb bow and drawing is just to give you ideas.


Build this thing with straight limbs and I will rob a bank. Heck, even a 40 incher would be fantastic.

Ted


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## BodiBuilt (Dec 19, 2009)

:moviecorn


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