# No more 14's in ASA pro class



## nccrutch (Feb 26, 2003)

I hope so. I hate being tempted.


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

after o9..they are gone....at least for semi's and above...based on survey giving to the archers in during the Metro asa event.


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## APAnTN (Mar 17, 2007)

Sith of Archery said:


> after o9..they are gone....at least for semi's and above...based on survey giving to the archers in during the Metro asa event.


it was voted on by the pros and they will only shoot at them in the shoot down


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## spot&dot (Nov 4, 2003)

So asa is changing in mid season again??


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## Floridaboy (Dec 8, 2003)

Why are these decisions voted on by a minority and then become law....Pro shooters vs all the other classes.......you know the ones who don't get to vote or have a voice.


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## rustyfence (Aug 3, 2006)

I like 14's. I can tell you, my plan to run the entire Pro/Am series in 2010 will get rethunk if they do away with them. I will run the IBO circuit instead.


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

rustyfence said:


> I like 14's. I can tell you, my plan to run the entire Pro/Am series in 2010 will get rethunk if they do away with them. I will run the IBO circuit instead.



You say that now, but shoot an IBO...take 12 hours to shoot 30 targets...then tell me the same.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Whoa there cowboy...check the ASA web site for any official statements about doing away with the 14...or any other rule changes.
It ain't a fact until Mike says its a fact and Mike ain't said that yet.
I guess some of the pros/semi-pros complained because they said they'd shoot 12's all day and then some other shooter would hit the 14's on the last few targets and "steal" the win. What a hoot!
One thing about ASA they LISTEN to the shooters unlike some organizations I can think of...


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Sith of Archery said:


> after o9..they are gone....at least for semi's and above...based on survey giving to the archers in during the Metro asa event.


I was at Metropolis and I didn't see any such survey. When were they passed out, who got them, and when were they tallied? I talked to a bunch of people there and none of them had heard anything about such a survey.
Just wondering why this seems to have flown below the radar for so many shooters.


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## Kadob62 (May 1, 2009)

*14 ring*

I didn't see any survey either, all I've heard is he/she said. We were discussing the topic on the ride home, how about this---put the 14 ring in the hind quarter away from any other scoring ring, now it's either a 14 or a 5 or even this a 14 or nothing. How about this scenario guys.


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

The survey was there and it was voted on by the pros. A couple of my buddies are pros and voted to get rid of the 14 in the pro classes. I heard a lot of complaints by the pros on 14s. A lot of them wanted to get rid of them to make it harder to recover from a 5. The 14 ring will remain in play for the amateurs, just not the semi-pros and above.


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## rustyfence (Aug 3, 2006)

Sith of Archery said:


> You say that now, but shoot an IBO...take 12 hours to shoot 30 targets...then tell me the same.


Last year at Bedford, I shot 30 targets in 4 hours, then shot the last 10 in about 45 minutes.

This year at Bedford I shot 20 in 3 hours, then shot the last 20 in 2 hours. 

Ya just gotta time the crowd right my friend.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Most of the pros I spoke to wanted it out because.........well, their excuses were that they did not have a live scoreboard so they did not know which ones they needed to shoot at and which ones not to shoot at.......if they started on a shorter target they did not want to go for it on their first shot, so that was not fair for the guys coming to that target later.....blah blah blah....

It brings a new element to the game, strategy and course management. It will not change who wins. It will bring the scores closer in line from the top dogs to the bottom dwellers, and that, IMO is the real rub.


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## killasoundz (Jul 6, 2008)

I like the 14s puts the pressure on to perform.

If I was good enough to be pro I'd love the 14s. Makes it more challenging. And puts the pressure on everyone else. Makes you rethink your playing it safe strategy. Go ahead shoot 12s all day. If you can hit them all day long no reason you can't hit the 14.


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## APAnTN (Mar 17, 2007)

this is not for all classes just the pro class


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

When the rules for the 2010 season come out then you will know if the 14's are in or out until then it is just another outhouse rumor. I also heard about some of the Pros wanting the scoreboard..............how funny is that? Maybe what they could do is what they do in golf....find a volunteer who would walk around with each group and carry a sign board with that groups' scores on them. Ya that would be great.


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

Bubba Dean said:


> When the rules for the 2010 season come out then you will know if the 14's are in or out until then it is just another outhouse rumor. I also heard about some of the Pros wanting the scoreboard..............how funny is that? Maybe what they could do is what they do in golf....find a volunteer who would walk around with each group and carry a sign board with that groups' scores on them. Ya that would be great.


Why don't they just shoot nothing but 14's and see who is left after the dust clears. That would put every one of the Pro's on the same playing field with no sandbagging. That would be every interesting don't ya think?


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Bubba Dean said:


> When the rules for the 2010 season come out then you will know if the 14's are in or out until then it is just another outhouse rumor. I also heard about some of the Pros wanting the scoreboard..............how funny is that? Maybe what they could do is what they do in golf....find a volunteer who would walk around with each group and carry a sign board with that groups' scores on them. Ya that would be great.


I know this much, I ain't doing no volunteering to carry anything in that Il heat we had last weekend!!!!!!!!


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## Bowtech54 (Sep 20, 2006)

*14 Rings*

Could it be that most of the pro's are afraid of taking a chance where as some of the young guns aren't? Most folks I've talked to like having an option! Regardless of the out come I'll keep shooting ASA over IBO.

:thumbs_up:BrownBear:


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

I would like to take my moist toilet paper and wipe the 14 of the face of the earth.


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## dragman (Jul 12, 2008)

t8ter said:


> I would like to take my moist toilet paper and wipe the 14 of the face of the earth.


+1 Can't stand em myself


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## B Squared (Jan 3, 2007)

t8ter said:


> I would like to take my moist toilet paper and wipe the 14 of the face of the earth.



So Im guessing you didnt win that Hamburger - your score would have been a couple points higher without them 14's. Had a blast shooting with ya on Sunday


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## arrowslinger#1 (Jul 6, 2006)

I really like the 14's... they get me tore up shooting at them. Thats what I like.


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## lzeplin (Jan 19, 2008)

I hate 14's all they do is get me messed up,,a couple of weeks ago at our local range I made the shoot down in the B class,,The first target I drawed was a deer at 36 yds. I missed the yardage and shot it for 39yrds GUESS WHAT HAPPENED ukey: you got it,, My arrow slapped off the top of its back and I got a zero Levi Morgan was setting right behind me watching,, by the way he shot four 14's of the five targets the last was a sheep and he shot it in the EYE just for fun, he was 30 points ahead of second place,,he wife hit four 14 as well,,they finished first and second


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## thender (Mar 8, 2006)

*Rain storm*



rustyfence said:


> Last year at Bedford, I shot 30 targets in 4 hours, then shot the last 10 in about 45 minutes.
> 
> This year at Bedford I shot 20 in 3 hours, then shot the last 20 in 2 hours.
> 
> Ya just gotta time the crowd right my friend.


I shot all day Friday, on the last ten our group was six groups behind. Then this rain cloud came in after 5pm and they ran everyone off the ranges. IBO needs help and they need to give some of all that money back to shooters.


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## Junebughasty (Dec 22, 2008)

*heat!!!!*



reylamb said:


> I know this much, I ain't doing no volunteering to carry anything in that Il heat we had last weekend!!!!!!!!


i had a wedding i had to go to and wasn't able to make it to metro. but 2 of my buddies said it was boiling!!!!!!! and no not my wedding!!! just a good buddy who used to shoot years back! and no i wouldn't ever think about getting married on an asa weekend or the opening day of deer season or anytime in November for that matter!!!!! its looking like a mid Feb. wedding for me!! or maybe never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Junebughasty (Dec 22, 2008)

*ha*



t8ter said:


> I would like to take my moist toilet paper and wipe the 14 of the face of the earth.


what in the world happened to you in metro?


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## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

sorry but its not an outhouse rumor...where you in Ill...on our ranges, and did you take the survey? I bet I know the answer to that one

I care less if the 14's are taken out or not....when they are taken out..I'd be willing to bet that the ranges will be set longer!


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

I wonder if TG voted no. I remember last year at the ASA classic he put the wood pile to the other pro shooters getting the 14 ring on the last shot. The other 2 shooters that followed had to go for it.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

EROS said:


> I wonder if TG voted no. I remember last year at the ASA classic he put the wood pile to the other pro shooters getting the 14 ring on the last shot. The other 2 shooters that followed had to go for it.


He voted to keep them. I know that for sure.


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## red1691 (Jun 8, 2007)

So people that do not shoot at the 14 ring are Bottom Dwellers??


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

red1691 said:


> So people that do not shoot at the 14 ring are Bottom Dwellers??


As long as Tim, Levi, Danny, Jeff and Darin are aiming at them at hitting them, yes. Of course it is not going to change the results, just bring the top dogs back closer to the pack.

---had to fix a typo in there....


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

If you want to make Professional 3D archery REALLY exciting, leave the 14 and get rid of the 12. That would balance out the scores and make it fun.

If Tim Gillingham, Levi Morgan, Danny McCarthy, Darrin Christenberry, Jeff Hopkins, Eric Hatcher, and the others that seem to be at the top of the Pro ranks can pound the 14, what maks you think they can't pound the 12 as well. The scores will come down some, but the people at the top won't change.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Get rid of the 12!? Theres a wild thought. Get rid of it for all classes and leave the 14. I think the only problem is the ASA has some kind of legal rights to the 12 ring. Having a 14 and no 12 wouldhelp you make up a miss or 5 in a hurry. You only have to risk another 5 or 0 to get it. Sounds sweet the more I think about it.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Like many have said, the "14" separates the Pro's. If some of the guys weren't so much better than the rest at hitting what they are aiming at I bet the desire to get rid of the 14 wouldn't be so great. If everyone is shooting at 10 & 12's then those that aren't as good a shot have a better chance of being close at the end................ Get rid of the 14 and you hurt the most accurate shooters more than you hurt the average shooter in the Pro ranks.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> Like many have said, the "14" separates the Pro's. If some of the guys weren't so much better than the rest at hitting what they are aiming at I bet the desire to get rid of the 14 wouldn't be so great. If everyone is shooting at 10 & 12's then those that aren't as good a shot have a better chance of being close at the end................ Get rid of the 14 and you hurt the most accurate shooters more than you hurt the average shooter in the Pro ranks.


Yup. Thinking back on it, would Levi have made the shootdown and finished 2nd at MS without the 14s? He blanked a target that weekend. Back before the days of 14s counting I doubt he could have gotten into the shootdown.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

You are 100% accurate in that statement. I just hate to see the ASA or anyone for that matter punish the top for the benefit of the bottom. It is not the fault of Levi, Tim, Danny, or whomever that the bottom can't keep up. No matter how hard we try, there will NEVER be equality in archery, or life for that matter. Somebody is going to go out there and outwork everyone else or maybe just have a God given gift that makes them better. That should never be punished.

But alas, the Pro's voted on it and since it is thier class, it is thier right to do so.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

I think the biggest reason most of them want it out is because the guys that shot well the day before dont have to worry about Tim, levi and some of the other guys that didnt have a hot day the day before going ahead of them by shooting the 14's. To me 3D is about consistency for a 2 day score and not one bad day then a great day the next. It also sucks if you draw all the 14able targets last and there be 2 triple X's with pin nocks in the middle of the 14. I drew the close targets last everytime on the 2nd day at the Illinois ProAm and then I had to worry about who was getting lucky and getting to shoot first or second and wondering if they were shooting the 14. IT sucked.
I do know that Danny McCarthy dont like the 14's either.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Might as well get rid of the 12's as well....... Then most everyone will be "first" at least once at a tournament....... until the shoot off starts. To be really fair we should do away with the shootoff altogether. Draw a name out of the hat for the winner so everyone in the hat has a "fair" chance of winning. Everyone else comes in second and splits the pot..... Winner gets 5 bonus points. Anyone not in the hat gets a big gold star and comes in third! 


When you get guys that are as good as the best at judging yardage (3D'ers) and shoots as good or better than the best (spot shooters) then you're going to have guys that are winning more 3D tournaments than the others........... unless we are "fair" and do as I mentioned above.


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## MegaDan (Jan 23, 2007)

carlosii said:


> Whoa there cowboy...check the ASA web site for any official statements about doing away with the 14...or any other rule changes.
> It ain't a fact until Mike says its a fact and Mike ain't said that yet.
> I guess some of the pros/semi-pros complained because they said they'd shoot 12's all day and then some other shooter would hit the 14's on the last few targets and "steal" the win. What a hoot!
> One thing about ASA they LISTEN to the shooters unlike some organizations I can think of...


if the shooter hit the 14's then it's not stealing is it?


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## shooter74 (Jul 7, 2005)

*hmmmmm*

well i guess all the other pros are sick of getting there butts beat by morgan. the will try any thing. lol


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## Avalon (Jul 23, 2007)

I dont' want to see it leave. I understand the thought behind someone shooting good all weekend but the other guy gets hot on Sunday and slips into the shootoff. 
I personaly hope it's always in the amatuer classes. For me I kinda get the same feeling as when I decide to shoot a deer I've been watching for awhile. I can watch it and it's no problem, as soon as I make up my mind to shoot it I start to get that "feeling" that I crave every year. The 14 ring does the same thing to me. I step up to the 31 yard corsican ram and I see the big 14 ring...I debate shooting it...pros, cons...as soon as I decide to go for it I get that feeling. 

I like the extra adrenaline the 14 adds.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

MegaDan said:


> if the shooter hit the 14's then it's not stealing is it?


To listen to some of the pros talk about it, apparently. Of course they are forgetting that said individual must have been shooting well all weekend to keep it that close.................


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

Well, first off it don't really matter to me. I learned my lesson with the 14s early, they will cause me to get in a hole that I can't dig myself out of. But, lets use this for an example, Shooter A has shot safe on his 20 targets. Aiming at connectors 13 10s, 6 12s and a 8 . 10 up (not to bad) Shooter B (the gambler) has went for half 14s (10) hit 5 missed 5 for 4 8s and a 5 on the other 10 has hit 6 10s 3 12s and a 8 (11 up) SHooter B has shot 5 8s and a 5 and is still 1 pt.ahead of Shooter A. Whos the better shot?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

geezer047 said:


> Well, first off it don't really matter to me. I learned my lesson with the 14s early, they will cause me to get in a hole that I can't dig myself out of. But, lets use this for an example, Shooter A has shot safe on his 20 targets. Aiming at connectors 13 10s, 6 12s and a 8 . 10 up (not to bad) Shooter B (the gambler) has went for half 14s (10) hit 5 missed 5 for 4 8s and a 5 on the other 10 has hit 6 10s 3 12s and a 8 (11 up) SHooter B has shot 5 8s and a 5 and is still 1 pt.ahead of Shooter A. Whos the better shot?


The one with the highest score???


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

geezer047 said:


> Well, first off it don't really matter to me. I learned my lesson with the 14s early, they will cause me to get in a hole that I can't dig myself out of. But, lets use this for an example, Shooter A has shot safe on his 20 targets. Aiming at connectors 13 10s, 6 12s and a 8 . 10 up (not to bad) Shooter B (the gambler) has went for half 14s (10) hit 5 missed 5 for 4 8s and a 5 on the other 10 has hit 6 10s 3 12s and a 8 (11 up) SHooter B has shot 5 8s and a 5 and is still 1 pt.ahead of Shooter A. Whos the better shot?



Well, that's all going to depends on how you want to look at it: In simpliest terms....This is a ARCHERY GAME....and if you don't take the risk..as in the 14....then you just a safe game player.... If you take risks...and well you can reap in their reward or suffer in their demise.


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## dragman (Jul 12, 2008)

Guess it comes down to playing to win or playing for a good showing. I remember my best indoor day ever I was at a 30 target corse and I was ON! I shot a 334 Not gonna lie I shot 3 14's cuz they were just sitting there. I came in second! I was so so so mad the winner shot a 354! could I have beat him with no 14 I dunno. guess in the end it is a gamble and makes it more interesting. I don't like them but if it is just sitting there I will shot it.


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