# arrow in relation to the berger hole?



## mntngrown (Sep 17, 2005)

*berger*

Over on the Mathews forum they say it's important to have it lined up with the berger hole.


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## bow47man (Jun 2, 2006)

*Berger Button*

The Bottom Of The Arrow Should Be In The Center Of The Hole.


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## cmherrmann (Jun 1, 2004)

bow47man said:


> The Bottom Of The Arrow Should Be In The Center Of The Hole.



Is this correct? I may be wrong but I always thought the shaft should cover the berger hole, so that if you were looking at it from the side the bottom of the shaft would be near the bottom of the berger hole.


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## BearSlayr (Jan 23, 2006)

The arrow should cover the AMO or berger button hole. this is the center of the riser.


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## tirbrnr (Aug 3, 2006)

I agree with bearslayr. in our shop the Mathews bows usually tune best with the arrow covering the berger hole.


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## MikeK (Dec 30, 2003)

A fellow here sells a device he makes up called the "Rest Assured." Do a search and you'll see pictures of it. The device is basically a bolt that replaces the bolt which is used to mount a rest. 

A hole is drilled straight through the dead center of this bolt. A pointed rod is slid through the hole and should contact the radial center of an arrow sitting on the rest for proper positioning. 

So according to the principle of this device the obvious answer to the topic question is the arrow should be centered in the Berger hole.

Here is a picture of the device:


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## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

Seems you have the answer, but just to confirm it, the center of the arrow should be aligned with the center of the hole. If you shot a rest with a berger button/plunger, you would have that touching the arrow in the center right? Well, there ya go...........

Kenn


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## razorjack (Feb 27, 2006)

now is this for Mathews bows only,or just in general for all bows!:darkbeer:


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## tjb357452 (Jan 24, 2003)

All bows should be initially set up to have the arrow intersect the Berger Hole in the riser. A little tweaking from that location is normal and adjustment may be made to accomodate fistmele and other individual handling characteristics.


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## emb (Feb 13, 2006)

It also depends on the type of rest used and the bow. I don't think the berger button is the center of the riser nor do I think it makes that much difference. It's just a starting point. If you start there, your fletchings won't be hitting the shelf.


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## bow75 (Jan 3, 2006)

*berger hole*

with a hoyt drop away the prongs in the up postion it is above the hole,unless I am not setting it up right.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

BearSlayr said:


> The arrow should cover the AMO or berger button hole. this is the center of the riser.


Just want to say that I think you mistaken. The berger hole is not in the center. If you measure down from the top axle to the arrow nock and then measure up from the bottom axle to the arrow nock there about average of 2 " difference. THe nock and berger hole is higher than center:wink:


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## Stormbringer (May 22, 2006)

Met a guy at the range who told me the same thing, he said I shouldn't see the Berger "buttons" he called them, with an arrow on the rest looking at it level from the side...I have a CSS bow, so, it must be a general rule of thumb. I had to re-adjust my GKF Infinity with the lizard tongue blade, when I went from a 390 grain arrow to a 413 grain...


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

Stormbringer said:


> Met a guy at the range who told me the same thing, he said I shouldn't see the Berger "buttons" he called them, with an arrow on the rest looking at it level from the side...I have a CSS bow, so, it must be a general rule of thumb. I had to re-adjust my GKF Infinity with the lizard tongue blade, when I went from a 390 grain arrow to a 413 grain...



I agree 100%. One shouldn't go higher than the berger holes. Since it is higher than center anyway, it wouldn't help at all to be higher than the berger hole. I usually center my arrow over the berger hole but feel that if you're lower and still have plenty of cleance on you shelf-- well-- it just doens't matter. I also think It doens't matter that much if its a little higher than the berger hole. What matters the most is adjusting your rest and nock to get level arrow flight. :wink:JMHO so don't disk me for it. :darkbeer:


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## bow47man (Jun 2, 2006)

*Berger Hole*

the proshop that set up both my mathews set it up the same way bottom of arrow thru the center of the berger button hole. both shoot great.


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## lwilt (Apr 6, 2006)

This berger button hole, or holes is just a reference point to align your arrow at 90 degrees to your string. Its just a way to tell if your arrow is level when setting nock point.


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## bird (Nov 23, 2005)

There are many tangibles to bow tuning and they all end at the same place,a bow shooting a straight arrow and tightly grouped arrows.
I personally use the berger hole as a starting point and go from there,why not,its an easy reference point.


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## A Mess (May 21, 2005)

Seems to be quite the popular wive's tale. 

The berger button hole is not in the center of the bow. (not any bow that I am aware of)

The most important issue regarding vertical placement of the arrow, and therefore rest height, is fletching clearance. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having the arrow below the berger button hole, as long as you get fletching clearance. There is nothing wrong with having the arrow above the hole, if that is what is needed to get fletching clearance. Nothing is gained by going higher than necessary. Go only as high as is needed to get fletching clearance.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

A Mess said:


> Seems to be quite the popular wive's tale.
> 
> The berger button hole is not in the center of the bow. (not any bow that I am aware of)
> 
> The most important issue regarding vertical placement of the arrow, and therefore rest height, is fletching clearance. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having the arrow below the berger button hole, as long as you get fletching clearance. There is nothing wrong with having the arrow above the hole, if that is what is needed to get fletching clearance. Nothing is gained by going higher than necessary. Go only as high as is needed to get fletching clearance.


Thanks AL, thats exactly what I tried to say -- even though I didn't say it quite as good.:wink: :darkbeer:


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## aulim (May 10, 2006)

The new AR 31 has a nock alignment mark on the riser centered on the berger button. makes it a no brainer to set up your arrows/ nocks


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## marforme (May 30, 2006)

A Mess said:


> Seems to be quite the popular wive's tale.
> 
> The berger button hole is not in the center of the bow. (not any bow that I am aware of)
> 
> The most important issue regarding vertical placement of the arrow, and therefore rest height, is fletching clearance. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having the arrow below the berger button hole, as long as you get fletching clearance. There is nothing wrong with having the arrow above the hole, if that is what is needed to get fletching clearance. Nothing is gained by going higher than necessary. Go only as high as is needed to get fletching clearance.


No it is not necessarily the center of the bow, but it is the center of force with drawn string. It may and may not be the center based on the particular bow and cam/s used. Centering it on the Berger hole will give you level nock travel and only small adjustments up or down from there might be needed to fine tune based on a particular setup.


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## A Mess (May 21, 2005)

"No it is not necessarily the center of the bow, but it is the center of force with drawn string. It may and may not be the center based on the particular bow and cam/s used. Centering it on the Berger hole will give you level nock travel"

Interesting concept. Care to elaborate, or is it just your theory?


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

A Mess said:


> "No it is not necessarily the center of the bow, but it is the center of force with drawn string. It may and may not be the center based on the particular bow and cam/s used. Centering it on the Berger hole will give you level nock travel"
> 
> Interesting concept. Care to elaborate, or is it just your theory?




Must be a theory Especially for a 8ft long single cam bow string last time I looked you could adjust and get level nock travel above, below, and centered on the berger hole. Its just better to not go any higher than necessary--- just like you stated before.:wink:


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## marforme (May 30, 2006)

stehawk said:


> Must be a theory Especially for a 8ft long single cam bow string last time I looked you could adjust and get level nock travel above, below, and centered on the berger hole. Its just better to not go any higher than necessary--- just like you stated before.:wink:


I guess I need to clarify a little because your right, my last post didn't sound quite right, sorry. I have been told this before and read about it a couple times and as I understand it there is an asymetrical condition that is calculated into where the berger button/hole is placed. This is theoretically where your arrow should be to balance out the forces of the limbs equally. I don't have factual experience with it, but it makes sense. I am sure it is more calculated than real world. It's probably just a good starting point where adjustments can be made to account for different variables.


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

matforme said:


> I guess I need to clarify a little because your right, my last post didn't sound quite right, sorry. I have been told this before and read about it a couple times and as I understand it there is an asymetrical condition that is calculated into where the berger button/hole is placed. This is theoretically where your arrow should be to balance out the forces of the limbs equally. I don't have factual experience with it, but it makes sense. I am sure it is more calculated than real world. It's probably just a good starting point where adjustments can be made to account for different variables.



:thumb: :darkbeer: Yeah, it truly would be difficult to hold the bow in the exact center (hand placement) and have the arrow shot from the exact center of a bow.:wink: That is unless you could use your thumb as an arrow rest.  :darkbeer: :wink:


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

matforme said:



> I guess I need to clarify a little because your right, my last post didn't sound quite right, sorry. I have been told this before and read about it a couple times and as I understand it there is an asymetrical condition that is calculated into where the berger button/hole is placed. This is theoretically where your arrow should be to balance out the forces of the limbs equally. I don't have factual experience with it, but it makes sense. I am sure it is more calculated than real world. It's probably just a good starting point where adjustments can be made to account for different variables.


 It is true that this the hole is a good starting point on most bows. Backing up a few years, like 25 or more. The grip was in the physical center of the bow and the rest was mounted about 2" above center. In fact the present Pearson Gen II is that way. Without getting extemely too high or low (fletch clearance issue) the rest can be mounted almost anywhere. You still tune the bow for that configuration just like we did 30 years ago. In most cases it was necessary to play with the tiller to even the forces of the limbs, usually having about 1/8" less tiller on the bottom limb.

I'll tell you guys something. You should really try drawing a bow with the grip in the center of the riser, if for nothing more than to feel how the bow draws. You'll find that it has a more balanced feel. Really neat.


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## A Mess (May 21, 2005)

I agree that it would be nice if we could position our hand, the rest, and the arrow, all in the center of the bow, but it would probably hurt to shoot that way (as the arrow passed through our hand). That's why, in my opinion, the best compromise is to have our grip contact point as high as we can get it, and have the rest as low as we can get it (since the grip is nearly always below center, and the berger button hole nearly always above). Just seems to make sense that if we can get both contact points as close as we can to the vertical center of the bow, good things would happen. Just makes sense, at least to me. This is why the "must go through the berger button hole" theory kinda makes me roll my eyes sometimes. Often repeated theory, which is generally not thought out. Seems if we hear something often enough, we think it's true. I tend to question everything that doesn't come with a logical explaination. I'm not the kind of guy that just believes something or practices it, without validation. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but I can't just take it at face value without good reason.


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## Elanus axillaris (Mar 17, 2006)

I like to have the centre of the arrow running thought the centre of the Berger hole. This gets the arrow closer to the true centre of the bow. It is not always possible because of clearance issues though.


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