# Dampers On Stabilizer Ends.



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

The dampers allow the weighs to move counter to the recoil of the bow, thus canceling out the vibration AND movement of the bow.

too many recurve shooter copy the compound stab setup using only rod and weights. This doesnt work the same as the compound bow has a different action after the shot. 

You going to be at the Arizona cup? I can show on my bow vs yours the difference. It is easy to understand in real life, hard to show it over the internet.

Chris


----------



## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

chrstphr said:


> You going to be at the Arizona cup? I can show on my bow vs yours the difference. It is easy to understand in real life, hard to show it over the internet.
> 
> Chris


I will be, yes. That would be great.


----------



## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

chrstphr said:


> The dampers allow the weighs to move counter to the recoil of the bow, thus canceling out the vibration AND movement of the bow.
> 
> too many recurve shooter copy the compound stab setup using only rod and weights.


Then how come some recurve shooters put the damper in between weights and not at the base of the stack?


----------



## 10X Archer (Mar 7, 2016)

rjbishop said:


> Then how come some recurve shooters put the damper in between weights and not at the base of the stack?


I think most of the time it is because the dampers can be very droopy if they have to much weight on them.


----------



## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

I've always shot dampers on the short rods but none on long rod. I've heard dampers on front can encourage a tendency to bounce while aiming.

Chris, what are your thoughts on this?


----------



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

my bow doesnt bounce when i am aiming. it is perfectly still. My bow is balanced and floats at full draw. My aperture sits very still when i am aiming. 

too much weight makes the damper droop. So some weight is put before the damper. 

what is your name RJ? I will look for you at Arizona cup. 

As a side note, i was shooting in the practice room at Vegas shoot. A student at HSS Academy also was there. He had the same fiberbow stabs as me, however he used alot of weight on the rods and did not use dampers. He was listening to my bow and how quiet it was. So i showed him the difference in using dampers with the weights. He then shot my bow and couldnt believe how much smoother and dead my bow was during the shot, his bow had quite a reaction. He was very surprised. He couldnt believe the difference. his bow was not dampened at all, only balanced. Anyone who will be at the Arizona cup is more than welcome to check out the dampening on my bow. and shoot it to feel the shot reaction compared to their bow. I can also show you how to check your bow for the right balance and dampening. 

Chris


----------



## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

st8arrow said:


> I've always shot dampers on the short rods but none on long rod. I've heard dampers on front can encourage a tendency to bounce while aiming.


Apparently these guys heard otherwise They all used rubber dampers on the long rod. 





No, a damper does not hurt your aiming, as long as you don't stack to much weight on the end. You can easily check this; shake the long rod, if you see the weights flop around it's to much for the damper to handle.


----------



## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

Good Info.....Thanks


----------



## TheElBow (May 18, 2015)

julle said:


> No, a damper does not hurt your aiming, as long as you don't stack to much weight on the end. You can easily check this; shake the long rod, if you see the weights flop around it's to much for the damper to handle.


So maybe this guy has stacked too much weight on the end of his long rod?









( However, his drawing technique is also very strange. )


----------



## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

Dampers may mask a poor brace height tune


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

What is the purpose of a Stabilizer? To increase the inertia of the bow. What is the purpose of increasing the inertia of the bow? To increase the resistance to linear and angular acceleration of the bow due to the forces applied to the bow during the aiming and shot process. The acting forces are the same. For a fixed applied force, a bow with higher inertia will move less than a bow with loser inertia. This has a lot of benefit during the aiming process.

What is the purpose of dampers? To decrease the time the vibrations settle to zero from a given force input.

For a typical competition recurve, the arrow is in contact with the string, arrow rest, and plunger for about 0.015 seconds from the moment of release. Watch high speed videos of that time period and note how much movement is in the riser.

Dampeners reduce the amplitude of each vibration cycle faster than the natural damped vibration.

So when watches the high speed videos, knowing how much time that arrow is in contact with any part of the bow during the launch, and seeing almost no movement in the riser during this critical time, one needs to asked themselves exactly what does the damper do to help the shot? When the archer feels the shock of the string reaching brace height, the arrow has already left. So that shock wave isn't influencing the arrow anymore.

Do dampeners help with the post shot shock? yes it does. It can help keep things from rattling apart/loose. 

One needs to ask what is the purpose of putting a dampener on the stabilizer?


----------



## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

TheElBow said:


> So maybe this guy has stacked too much weight on the end of his long rod?
> 
> View attachment 5566049
> 
> ...


not at all.


----------



## bahboric (Aug 22, 2013)

chrstphr said:


> Anyone who will be at the Arizona cup is more than welcome to check out the dampening on my bow. and shoot it to feel the shot reaction compared to their bow. I can also show you how to check your bow for the right balance and dampening.
> Chris


Chris, Since some of us won't be at the Arizona cup, perhaps you could take some time and make a video or write up how to do this??? I'm interested in your thoughts on finding the right balance and dampening.


----------



## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

All great info. Thanks.


----------



## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

Mr. Roboto said:


> One needs to ask what is the purpose of putting a dampener on the stabilizer?


Seriously? It greatly increases the enjoyment of shooting, which makes you shoot more. Is that enough? 

Have you ever shot large caliber light weight hunting rifles? They are no joy to shoot without a rubber buttpad. Consider a damper on your stabilizer the same.


----------



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

bahboric said:


> Chris, Since some of us won't be at the Arizona cup, perhaps you could take some time and make a video or write up how to do this??? I'm interested in your thoughts on finding the right balance and dampening.


I will look into making a video. 


Chris


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

julle said:


> Seriously? It greatly increases the enjoyment of shooting, which makes you shoot more. Is that enough?
> 
> Have you ever shot large caliber light weight hunting rifles? They are no joy to shoot without a rubber buttpad. Consider a damper on your stabilizer the same.


If it makes you feel better to put one on, put one on. Put two on, I don't care.

But the fundamental question people need to ask is exactly what is that dampener going to do and why do I want to do it. Comfort is a perfectly fine answer. But how many people buy them thinking it will help with the shot. How many people buy them just because someone's opinion "thinks" they help. 

And yes, I have shot quite a few lightweight rifles in my day. I know exactly what you are talking about, and I even have some scars to go with it when I have done it wrong.


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

As a .308 bolt action shooter, let me just say, dampers on bows don't work the same way.


----------



## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

theminoritydude said:


> As a .308 bolt action shooter, let me just say, dampers on bows don't work the same way.


As .308 bolt action shooter i know that, because that's not what I said;-) I said they can both vastly increase the enjoyment of shooting. 
Some setups really need a dampener otherwise they are just horrible to shoot. It just hurts to shoot them, same as a .308 without padding.


----------



## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

julle said:


> As .308 bolt action shooter i know that, because that's not what I said;-) I said they can both vastly increase the enjoyment of shooting.
> Some setups really need a dampener otherwise they are just horrible to shoot. It just hurts to shoot them, same as a .308 without padding.


If you're getting hurt by ANY .308, you're doing it wrong. (Steyr Scout shooter here).


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

>--gt--> said:


> If you're getting hurt by ANY .308, you're doing it wrong. (Steyr Scout shooter here).


SSG69. The Austrians have a very wicked sense of humour.


----------



## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

>--gt--> said:


> If you're getting hurt by ANY .308, you're doing it wrong. (Steyr Scout shooter here).


well my granddad removed everything that was unnecessary on his .308 so as to make it as light as possible. 5 shots and i'm done. I've shot 9.3x62 rifles that did not hurt that much, they kick, but they don't hurt. My friends .308 tikka t3 tactical shoots like a .22. 

kinda off topic now


----------



## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

Joe Tapley has some great write ups on this (stabilizer dampeners, not rifles). 
I'll see if I can find the links.


----------



## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

ryan b. said:


> Joe Tapley has some great write ups on this (stabilizer dampeners, not rifles).
> I'll see if I can find the links.


Is this the one (click on bow mechanics):

http://www.tap46home.plus.com/mechanics/

This has some good reading also:

https://sites.google.com/site/archerybibliography/bow-stabilisation


----------



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Seattlepop said:


> Is this the one (click on bow mechanics):
> 
> http://www.tap46home.plus.com/mechanics/
> 
> ...



Finally, some people who make sense.


----------



## WDWILHELM (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't do engineering or physics, but I found the following article informative regarding stabilizers and dampers. It has cured my insomnia on more than one evening.

www.wvac.asn.au/docs/StabilisersEllison.pdf

I use dampers because it feels better to shoot with them versus without them. They do absorb some amount of vibration.
I alter the weights on my stabilizers so that my bow jumps straight forward at release. Or at least as close to straight forward as I can given my skill level and the time I want to devote to bow set up.

Wyndell


----------



## GRAY Archery (Dec 1, 2016)

I will be commenting on this thread a liitle later, but basically vibration dampers are to make the archer feel better but i will discuss vibration dampening in the rod itself.


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Seattlepop said:


> Is this the one (click on bow mechanics):
> 
> http://www.tap46home.plus.com/mechanics/
> 
> ...


Awesome Video. It also illustrates my point. If people are adding dampeners to reduce vibration during the power stroke of the arrow (the time the arrow is in physical contact of the bow) so that the arrow flies better then this video clearly shows that the dampeners are not doing any work until after you see the arrow leave the bow. There are lots of reasons to add dampeners to a bow. But before getting caught up with it, first identify the reason to put it on, and then find a dampener that actually does that. Still, that is an awesome video in that link.


----------



## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Mr. Roboto said:


> Awesome Video. It also illustrates my point. If people are adding dampeners to reduce vibration during the power stroke of the arrow (the time the arrow is in physical contact of the bow) so that the arrow flies better then this video clearly shows that the dampeners are not doing any work until after you see the arrow leave the bow. There are lots of reasons to add dampeners to a bow. But before getting caught up with it, first identify the reason to put it on, and then find a dampener that actually does that. Still, that is an awesome video in that link.


I look at it this way, some people like to take a radio apart and understand why transistors and diodes work the way they do. Other folks just like to find a "tune" they like and dance to the music.


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Seattlepop said:


> I look at it this way, some people like to take a radio apart and understand why transistors and diodes work the way they do. Other folks just like to find a "tune" they like and dance to the music.


There are those who swear that tube amps are superior in sound quality than transistor amps. But does adding dampeners to the speaker mounts improve the original sound quality, or did that come from the amp? I am so deaf I couldn't tell the difference, let along hear the beat to dance to it LOL


----------



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

bahboric said:


> Chris, Since some of us won't be at the Arizona cup, perhaps you could take some time and make a video or write up how to do this??? I'm interested in your thoughts on finding the right balance and dampening.


Ok, i made a video. It could be better if i had scripted it or maybe not rambled, but i am not a pro Youtuber. 

https://youtu.be/Ho0u-jMWYY0

Chris


----------



## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

Great video Chris. that should be a thread subject sticky in the "setting up and tuning a recurve bow" sticky that doesn't exist here (yet).


----------



## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

As a newbie recurver, I thank you for that video, Chris.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk


----------



## Toxo-Philite (Nov 17, 2015)

Great Video, thanks.


----------



## phallenthoul (Aug 21, 2016)

awesome video Chris, thanks a lot.


----------



## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Helped a lot. Thanks.


----------



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Sorry i rushed through some points like, having angled rods and vbar attached to the riser will make the bow sit in the hand better, but will be more prone to hand torque and hand pressure issues. While using an extender will let the bow jump forward easier, and give less torque issues. angled with extender does minimize some of the hand issues. But using extender puts weight more forward on the front rod increasing the amount felt, so less weight is needed to get same desired effect. Dampers must work with weights. Some dampers are weak rubber, some stiff. 

Too much weight all around can make the bow harder to float at full draw. Compounds use a lot of weigh as they are holding much less poundage at full draw. The heavy weigh helps to stabilize. But recurve if you are holding 35-55 pounds, you need lighter stab/ weights for the bow to float at full draw. Having tons of weigh with the high poundage holding will make the bow less stable. 

Bow should be easy to move up or down, left or right at full draw. Tiller can play slightly into this during the draw, but weights will have more effect good or bad. 

Longer side rods will stabilize the bow better, but will also make the bow sit in the hand more and can lead to some hand pressure issues like low shots, or lefts and rights. Best is for the bow to move away from your hand during the shot to minimize and hand issues. 

Current trend is small diameter rods. 

Your mileage may vary.


Chris


----------



## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

chrstphr said:


> Sorry i rushed through some points like, having angled rods and vbar attached to the riser will make the bow sit in the hand better, but will be more prone to hand torque and hand pressure issues. While using an extender will let the bow jump forward easier, and give less torque issues. angled with extender does minimize some of the hand issues. But using extender puts weight more forward on the front rod increasing the amount felt, so less weight is needed to get same desired effect. Dampers must work with weights. Some dampers are weak rubber, some stiff.
> 
> Too much weight all around can make the bow harder to float at full draw. Compounds use a lot of weigh as they are holding much less poundage at full draw. The heavy weigh helps to stabilize. But recurve if you are holding 35-55 pounds, you need lighter stab/ weights for the bow to float at full draw. Having tons of weigh with the high poundage holding will make the bow less stable.
> 
> ...


Can you recommend some brand dampers? I use about 8 ounces on my front rod, and 6 on the rear. So a stiffer damper is the way to go I'm guessing?


----------



## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

rjbishop said:


> Can you recommend some brand dampers? I use about 8 ounces on my front rod, and 6 on the rear. So a stiffer damper is the way to go I'm guessing?


For 8 ounces you need a damper that is more round in shape, like the fivics vz2000 or a doinker 1" abomb. 
I like the fivics dampers because they are relatively cheap and they use good rubber. 90% of the dampeners on the market are junk because they use some springy synthetic rubber lacking the viscoelastic characters needed in a dampener. 
You can also just use a smaller dampener if you place it in between the weights.


----------



## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Has anyone tried the Doinker supreme dampers or the Doinker Hero damper? They claim to operate as a stabilizer damper with "adjustable tension" as well as being able to support lots of weight without sagging. Thoughts?


----------



## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

Noticed the doinker 1" is back ordered at Lancaster. I was considering to order a few after seeing the video, but then waited a day and they were gone

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## gdrudd13 (Feb 16, 2016)

Fiberbow makes a pretty cooler damper. It's threaded on both ends and has a hole running the full length. That lets you screw in allthread from either end to adjust the stiffness. It also comes in a soft and medium density. I have the soft variant, but am only running 4 oz. in weight. I didn't really stiffen it with allthread any and haven't noticed any sagging.


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

chrstphr said:


> Ok, i made a video. It could be better if i had scripted it or maybe not rambled, but i am not a pro Youtuber.
> 
> https://youtu.be/Ho0u-jMWYY0
> 
> Chris


Nice video, thanks. Very informative.


----------



## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Probably going to pick some dampers up after watching Chris' video. Looking at the Infitec Crux damper. Can anyone vouch for this? Is it a quality damper? 

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/infitec-crux-rubber-weight.html

They have colors so I like it lol.


----------



## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

rjbishop said:


> Probably going to pick some dampers up after watching Chris' video. Looking at the Infitec Crux damper. Can anyone vouch for this? Is it a quality damper?
> 
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/infitec-crux-rubber-weight.html
> 
> They have colors so I like it lol.


DON'T BUY IT!!

I bought 3 because I thought they looked good and were pretty cheap, how wrong was I -.-....
The rubber is really springy, and the design is really bad. There is no way to screw the weights tightly to the rubber because they screw inserts and outsert rims are flush with the rubber. A quality dampener has these inserts countersunk in the rubber so you can squish the rubber against your stab end and your weight stack. This design fault allows the damper to wiggle instead of flex, giving a horrible feeling and sound. 
In an attempt to make them shootable I pulled the threads out of 2 of them, the threading is just molded in without any kind of barbs to prevent it from being pulled out. So another bad design feature. 

Get a fivics 1500 if you use small weights or a fivics 2000 if you plan to use large diameter disk weights. If you like the ball design get a Doinker A bomb/exxo.


----------



## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

julle said:


> DON'T BUY IT!!
> 
> I bought 3 because I thought they looked good and were pretty cheap, how wrong was I -.-....
> The rubber is really springy, and the design is really bad. There is no way to screw the weights tightly to the rubber because they screw inserts and outsert rims are flush with the rubber. A quality dampener has these inserts countersunk in the rubber so you can squish the rubber against your stab end and your weight stack. This design fault allows the damper to wiggle instead of flex, giving a horrible feeling and sound.
> ...


I'll second this. Bought one as well and could not tighten the weight against the rubber, only against the thread piece, so it wobbled horribly at release. Asked replacement from Alternative, got it and it was just the same!


----------



## 10X Archer (Mar 7, 2016)

Which one is best, 1" a bomb, exo, RamRods powder weight?


----------



## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

Mika Savola said:


> I'll second this. Bought one as well and could not tighten the weight against the rubber, only against the thread piece, so it wobbled horribly at release. Asked replacement from Alternative, got it and it was just the same!


haha, yes i also got a replacement from alternatives and it was the same. I asked for a replacement because the threaded insert part almost fell out on its own, de bond between the metal and the rubber is so weak. 

Such a waste, a simple change in design and different rubber and they would be a good dampener, that looks cool and is able to hold allot of weight.



10X Archer said:


> Which one is best, 1" a bomb, exo, RamRods powder weight?


depends wat you call "best" , I'd personally go with the 1" a bomb.


----------

