# Lightest Arrow You Can Safely Shoot



## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

For USA Archery, the "Outdoor Season" is coming up. As you may have read, this year USA Archery is opening up the Barebow division at their national outdoor/target championships. The distance shot will be 60M at a 122cm target.

To get more arrow velocity, and thus a flatter trajectory, I'm thinking of using lighter arrows than I've been using. (I've been using the same arrows as I use during indoor season, and they're obviously too heave to fly very far without aiming crazy high.) But it occurs to me that if an arrow gets TOO light, it could be dangerous for the _bow_ ... right? 

We all know not to ever _dry fire_ a bow. So doesn't if follow that, surely, there is some minimum arrow weight necessary to prevent the same sort of damage that would occur from dry firing the bow?

Maybe I'm wrong about that. Let me know if I am. But isn't their some "minimum recommended arrow weight" for any particular bow?

I've tried to find this for the two bows I own, and I can't find any such documentation from the manufacturers. One bow has a 35lb draw weight, the other 40lbs. Both are recurves, of course.

Is there any chart, or rule of thumb, as to what the minimum safe arrow weight is? Or it just that it takes so little weight on an arrow to make it safe for the bow that no arrow you could actually buy would be a problem?

Am I even making sense? 

I'm not saying I want the lightest possible arrows. I just want to make sure whatever I choose is safe to shoot from my bow.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

SotB - 

Without knowing the specific rigs, only generalizations:

Modern metal ILF rigs can go as low as 6 grains/lb, but I like a little above that.
Vintage bows can "usually" handle as low as 8 grains/lb, but 9 "might" be safer. 

Most modern bows can take a lot of abuse, older/vintage ... proceed at your own risk.

VIper1 out.


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## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

That light, eh? My bows are both fairly new. One is about four years old, the other I've only had for a year.

I didn't even know arrows got down to 9 grain! Well, that gives me something to work with. Thanks.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

The issue you will have in going to a minimum weight arrow (6 grains of arrow weight per # of draw weight) is that it will drop quicker and be more prone to drift due to winds.
The lightest arrows I ever shoot are GoldTip Velocities/Ultralights. Even then I notice more vibration and noise in the bow upon release. The cause of this is the energy that is not being absorbed by the light arrow upon release.
Perhaps there are arrows available that are lighter than these, but I would not shoot them.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

SotB -

That's nine grains per pound of draw weight.
For example, a 400 gr arrow from a 40# bow would be a 10 grs / lb arrow, a 300 grain arrow from the same bow would be 7.5 gr / lb.

Caveats: 

I said modern ILF bows, all bets are off when talking about a new bow made by a custom bowyer.
Bows aren't created equal. 
Just because two bow are rated at 40#, their rates of acceleration and shock (when the string stops the limbs) can be very different. 

Also note that with lighter weight bows, getting really light grs/lb arrows can be difficult due to the weight of the arrows.
Conversely, very heavy bows can take lighter gr/lb arrows than expected, due to the loss of efficiency. 

Bill -

I'm not sure that's always the case. Getting down to about 6 gr/lb can be very efficient when dealing with very skinny arrows that have been properly tuned.
There can be a balancing act going on, but good ILF rigs can take advantage of "relatively" light arrows quite nicely.
My target arrows are between 7 and 7.5 grs / lb and I've always seen heavier arrows drop faster. 

Viper1 out.


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## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

Viper said:


> That's nine grains per pound of draw weight.
> For example, a 400 gr arrow from a 40# bow would be a 10 grs / lb arrow, a 300 grain arrow from the same bow would be 7.5 gr / lb.


That makes _soooo_ much more sense. :embara: 

Still, that gives me a framework to work within. Thanks.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

60 meters is a long w as y to shoot with any recurve. I am a hunting only guy so my longest practice range is 30 while hunting shots are limited to 20.


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## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

Bill 2311 said:


> 60 meters is a long w as y to shoot with any recurve. I am a hunting only guy so my longest practice range is 30 while hunting shots are limited to 20.


It is indeed a very long way to shoot with a recurve, especially with no sights. I'm trying various things help get the distance. So far, nothing is really helping much. I am going to try thinner arrows (and maybe lighter) and I'm going to bump up my draw weight by 5lbs. I may also use a lower anchor point for outdoor season.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I have no problem reaching 90m shooting a 30# set of limbs and pretty moderate arrow weights (~7.5gpp). It's all a question of good tuning and especially anchor position.
60m is easily shot with 3 under and a high anchor with a faster set of limbs and arrows around 7gpp.

In my experience going under 7gpp does result in a flatter trajectory but is not as easy to shoot. My best tunes have all been under 210fps.

-Grant


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## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

So fill us in. What tuning secrets enable a 30# bow to propel an arrow 90m? And what would you say constitutes a "high" anchor point. Are you able to actually aim at a point on the target, or are you still aiming well above it?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

StudentOfTheBow said:


> So fill us in. What tuning secrets enable a 30# bow to propel an arrow 90m? And what would you say constitutes a "high" anchor point. Are you able to actually aim at a point on the target, or are you still aiming well above it?


Anchoring under the cheek (similar to middle finger corner of mouth) gets me a 3 under 60m POD with arrows going 210fps. That is the highest anchor I can effectively shoot. Keeping 3 under that bow will shoot 90m by just placing the shelf on the top of the target. Going to split fingers gets me plunger on at 90m.

With the 30# limbs I had arrows shooting around 200fps, I used a lower anchor (but still not Oly under the chin). and it was very easy to get them out to 70m split fingered holding dead-on. Again holding the shelf on was good for 90m.

I'm pretty sure I could shoot dead-on at 90m with a set of 25# limbs, light arrows and an under chin anchor.

Bad arrow flight and feathers will kill your cast at distance, especially with a light bow.

-Grant


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## Dewey3 (May 6, 2012)

Grant -

What arrows are you using with your 30# bow at 90m ???


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

I see posts about this on a regular basis & since I shot longbows, recurves from 1956 through mid 70s (nearly 20 years) b/4 switching to compounds I wonder why all the problems. I shot tons of Target rounds (60-50-40 yards) & the big thing then was field where we shot through 80 yds. Granted, the light bows had quite an arch but seemed to hit the target ok. I competed with fingers & 40 & 42# recurves. My anchor was corner of the mouth, index finger then. I used Easton Aluminums & mostly 1816s or 1914s back then. Currently with my compounds I shoot 1913s for outdoor out of 60#s & through 80 yds.. YES, I STILL shoot Aluminum arrows.

I've taken up longbow again & traditional all the way with 50#s, fingers & 11/32 wood shaft cut 28" & 125gr field point. IF I can revive some of my old talents I hope to shoot the Nationals in the traditional division. So, I have no worry through 60 yds & the 65, 70 & 80 yd shots I'll just be aiming "over" the target probably. This is my new longbow & anchor I will use & my compound anchor.. Yes, the anchor is the key.


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

There really is no rule of thumb when it comes to bows in general since each manufacturer has minimum limits when it comes to grains per pound. If in doubt, call them. Another item to consider is your draw length. If you pick up a 40lb bow its rating is usually for a 28 inch draw length unless it's custom made. If your true draw length is longer or shorter that's going to change things. There is the length of the bow. The longer it is the slower it will usually be when compared to a shorter bow having the same draw weight. Usually being the operative word and that's due to there being more material in the limbs coming forward on release. 

Then there is trajectory. The lower the draw weight the more of an arc the arrow is going to have regardless how light or heavy the arrow is. The steeper that arc the less forgiving the target is going to be to your flubs. That's a big factor and why a lot of the top oly shooters lean towards the heavier draw weights. Brady shoots 50 and a lot of the Korean women are in the upper 30s to low 40s. Faster arrows equate to a flatter trajectory. You have to be able to control it though. You can get an arrow to come off a bow at near dry fire speeds but it needs to retain velocity down range to do any good so some weight is good idea. 

To find "your" arrow it's going to take some work and experimenting.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Dewey3 said:


> Grant -
> 
> What arrows are you using with your 30# bow at 90m ???


Super Club 20/30 with 65gr in the front.

I'd go with a VAP1000 and 60gr points instead now.

-Grant


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I shoot Super Clubs which are like 5 grains with lightweight tips and they get me out to 70m with 22/24#. They are not going to get you Olympic accuracy but they will group OK. My approach is wind sensitive, sometimes I have tried a "wind fade," ie, aim off and play the drift. I disagree with the guy saying the lightweight ones drop. My experience is the opposite, that all things being equal tip weight and arrow grains can be the difference between getting there and not (I couldn't get there with aluminums, as well as another carbon I tried later on). Too much weight at a low draw weight and it doesn't make it. I went from short to actually being able to overshoot the bale and have some sight bar room. My problem is accuracy on windy days.

I think people shooting more weight would say the opposite lesson, you want FOC and to group. That is the serious archer lesson. But my advice applies more if you're trying to break in and worried about making your distance and less about winning with 359/360.

In terms of your actual question, if you have too much weight and light spine carbons I could see a shatter problem. But you can get the lighter arrows in safer, heavier spines.

Reality is draw weight relative here. I can make 70 easy with my brother's 35# Sage shooting aluminums with feathers. So you shouldn't really need to depart from the spine chart to get the distance. You could get light arrows within the spine, but I don't think you need to shoot 15/25s on a 35# and worry about splintering to make it.


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

Maybe my statement was overly simplistic about trajectory with light or heavy arrows. It was more about the draw weight with any arrow to the extent that light arrows lose velocity faster over distance than heavier thereby increasing the steepness of the trajectory arc. And there is wind which screws with a lighter arrow more so than a heavier one with speed being equal. It's a mixed bag and some sort of compromise between controllable draw weight and arrow will be needed depending on the shooting circumstance. I'm shooting Vap 600's 6.5 gpp off a 40lb bow and it does good but out past 60 or so any slights are amplified. Then again, distance humbles everyone at some point.


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## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

This is a lot of good information and things to try.

Many observers have remarked that my anchor point is remarkably high. This worked great for indoor distances. I shoot split finger at indoor distances, but my high anchor point puts me right where I like to be. Indoor has always been my event.

But I would like to become more competitive in the outdoor distances.

So, one thing with which I will need to experiment are lower anchor points. That will be quite an adjustment. I'm just so used to where I anchor now.




ranchoarcher said:


> It was more about the draw weight with any arrow to the extent that light arrows lose velocity faster over distance than heavier thereby increasing the steepness of the trajectory arc. And there is wind which screws with a lighter arrow more so than a heavier one with speed being equal.


Physics would seem to resolve this quandary. It's not really about light vs. heavy arrows. It's really about the weight/surface area ratio. If you were to test two arrows of the exact same weight and length, but one with half the diameter and smaller fletching, you'll find that the thinner one will loose far less speed than the thicker one. 

Which, of course, is why so many of your serious outdoor archers have very light arrows with very thin shafts. Yes, they're lighter. But equally important, they're _thinner_ and have less surface area with which to catch air. I've known I need to invest in these, but until reading your post I didn't realize how badly.

A feather weight arrow that is also needle thin will fly without loosing much speed.

Draw length is almost certainly another problem I am having. I am not a tall man, and my draw length, last time I measured, was about 26". There's nothing I can do about that. I hear people talk about pulling back past their normal anchor, but then it seems to me you'd run into other control issues.



ranchoarcher said:


> There is the length of the bow. The longer it is the slower it will usually be when compared to a shorter bow having the same draw weight. Usually being the operative word and that's due to there being more material in the limbs coming forward on release.


Had not even thought about this. My bow is a bit long for a recurve ... 68". Again, this makes for surprising accuracy at indoor distances. But if what you say is true, and as far as I know it is, then my bow length may be compromising my distance outdoors.

It sounds like if I get a new bow, I will need to either get one that can use longer, slower limbs for indoor season and shorter, faster limbs for outdoor, or just hang on to my old one and use it for indoor season. 

So, it sounds like I need:

1. Lighter, but also thinner, arrows.
2. Stronger, shorter limbed bow. (I've been planning to increase 5 pounds anyway.)
3. Lower anchor point.

I'll try these things. Thanks.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

If your form and tune is good enough, a smaller profile and shorter feather will help as well.
So far as limbs length and speed, I have not found that the few fps gained by the use of shorter limbs to be worth it. I like the feel of longer limbs and I shoot them better, so it is not worth it for me. Even when I went from a 19" riser to a 17" riser, the only difference I saw was an increase of 1-2# of draw weight on the limbs.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

For me, the lightest arrow I _can_ shoot is lighter than the lightest arrow I _want_ to shoot.

Aside from the efficiency and stability issue, I just don't like a whole lot of residual energy left in the bow, and shaking me up, after the shot. The gpp metric is fine as a starting rule of thumb, though ultimately, I think it is a try and see kind of thing. Besides, the gpp reality will depend not only on draw weight, but also draw length. More draw, more stored energy, more energy left in the bow after the shot (and the arrow too).

Compound that with the fact that even if you happen to draw an even 28", most bows sold aren't actually the draw weight they're sold as, but rather, a weight that got rounded to that nearest 5# increment. That means, you could have two of the same model, marked at the same draw weight, that are almost 5# apart.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

SotB:

Judging by how you describe your anchor I think what you need is a change of technique to start, not a change of equipment.

Also I'm willing to bet you would gain some DL with a lower anchor. 

-Grant


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## StudentOfTheBow (Jun 17, 2014)

Tried shooting 60M with a lower anchor point today. I was quite surprised at how much it affected the angle of my shot. I still had to aim above the target a little to get the arrow there, but not nearly as high as I had been aiming before.

I'm still not very accurate at all at this distance. But I noticed that my arrows were actually visibly drifting to one side or the other as they flew. I still think the same arrows I did so well with during indoor season just aren't appropriate for shooting 60M. A head wind kicked up as I was shooting and the arrows suddenly started falling short of the target until the wind died down again.

So, I still have to get new arrows for outdoor season. The arrows I have now, I will keep for indoor season.

I will probably still get a faster bow for outdoor as well, but I will say a lower anchor point is still part of the process.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

One thing you can do is vanes, better flight in the wind.

Another thing, carbons, lighter, faster, more distance.

Another thing, a shelf tab, more consistent anchor at distance. A big tab is mush for anchoring but a small shelf can get you a more tangible spot and consistency landing there.

Another thing is wind awareness you seem to be developing. Don't shoot in a gust. If there is a consistent crosswind figure out how far to aim off. I would not avoid wind because sometimes it is reality and having a feel for it can help you maximize your performance with a recurve.

Last thought, I got outdoor arrows if but for the fact that when you are learning you lose or smash a few, and your indoor stock will deplete. If you have a separate outdoor set then you don't have to worry about killing the indoor ones and replacement costs for cheap carbons might be cheaper. Basically, get some arrows you don't care if you tear the vanes off, bury, or smash.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Also, while I made an initial Rush to 70 just to tell myself I could get there, I went back down to 30-40-50 (and only later 60 and 70) for the lunchpail work. I enjoy playing around myself and don't stick to it strictly, but the process of going to first distance, get it right, back up a little, get it right, can be beneficial and also I think gets you in the right place to make the next distance accurately. That being said, I think the enthusiasm of, lemme see if I can hit this shot that far, playtime, is what keeps people in the sport. I worry about some OR colleagues who are always business. Yesterday I took my woodie out (instead of ILF) and was trying to hit long ones. An OR parent asked me if I was nuts. But after a busy recent shooting schedule it struck me as the sane fun thing to do. Enjoy it.


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