# Hunter class



## 689 (May 29, 2004)

Well we have not talked about the HUNTER CLASS lately. It looks like you have to shoot a clean score to win. And you would think that some of you guys that shoot that class should be able to. I mean come on its only thirty yards. I dont get you guys. You go out and spend 1000.00 on a bow and you only want to shoot thirty yards. Half of you are shooting 315 fps. That sound like a lot of fun. What if this hunting season a big buck comes in to 40 yards you will be **** out of luck. See ya later hunter class world champ.


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## bradlemieux7331 (Mar 27, 2006)

*What*

Who is this thread posted to? I've shot Hunter Class and yes it's out to 30 yards + or -. How many true Bowhunters (hunting whitetails) shoot past 20 yards? While hunting I've "killed" or what I like to say is harvested one deer past 20 yards and it was 25 yards. It was a doe in a Field with nothing between me and her. Hey while on the 3d range I've taken 73 yard shots for fun and made a killing shot but I respect the animals I hunt too much to take the chance. If a nice buck came in to me at 40 yards I'll bet you it'll get closer for a shot or I'll get one hell of a show. Like I saw and here (AT) "An archery sees how far away from his target he can get and still connect and a bowhunter sees how close he can get to his target" Sums it up nicely for me.


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## slinger09 (Oct 11, 2004)

689 said:


> Well we have not talked about the HUNTER CLASS lately. It looks like you have to shoot a clean score to win. And you would think that some of you guys that shoot that class should be able to. I mean come on its only thirty yards. I dont get you guys. You go out and spend 1000.00 on a bow and you only want to shoot thirty yards. Half of you are shooting 315 fps. That sound like a lot of fun. What if this hunting season a big buck comes in to 40 yards you will be **** out of luck. See ya later hunter class world champ.


Sounds like someone is tired of getting beat.


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## Glock17 (Dec 23, 2004)

Dont shoot Hunter Class then.....There are many guys in Open Class who look forward to beating you. 

As for hunting, thats what practice and range finders are for.


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## alabama_slamer (Jan 30, 2006)

In North Carolina our hunting class shots are from 40 yards to 5 yards not the distance thats hard it's finding the shot in all the trees and anything else that will be in the way. This last shot at Lakeview in SC I had 4 to 5 shots I toke sitting and leaning sideways. The shot at uniongrove your bow speed can only be 260fps for the hunter class so I am going to shot open class so I don't have to shot in all the trees and stuff.


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## thumperX (Jun 9, 2004)

*geeh!?!?*

Someone has to whine or conplain about everything on AT lately!!! 
I shoot hunter class because but that is why I shoot 3D its practice for "HUNTING"....
Now if you know the rules and obide by them, you should know hunter class can only shoot 280fps in IBO ...And yes I could spend the 700 dollars on a target sight and scope to shoot open class properly but if I have that kind of money Id rather buy another bow!!!!


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## Northforker (Oct 11, 2004)

ASA Hunter Class is 40 Yards max +/- and the 12 ring is in the corner, drop a little low or to the wrong side and your an 8. ASA is 280 fps MAX. IBO is 35 yards max +/-, not 30. 

Get the facts straight.


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## pride5 (Jul 15, 2005)

*bump*



Northforker said:


> ASA Hunter Class is 40 Yards max +/- and the 12 ring is in the corner, drop a little low or to the wrong side and your an 8. ASA is 280 fps MAX. IBO is 35 yards max +/-, not 30.
> 
> Get the facts straight.


right on


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## baylward (Aug 18, 2003)

I shoot hunter class in the IBO and the speed is 280FPS or 5 grains per pound of draw weight so you can shoot faster then 280. If they check you bow you have the option to choose arrow weight or shoot thru a Chor.
It all for fun or we all would be shooting Pro.


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## HoodIN (Mar 27, 2006)

Unless I'm wrong, most guys aren't spending a grand on a hunting bow


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

I shoot hunter class and a hunting rig. Our hunter class is out to 40 yards though and trust me for a newbie out to 40 can be challenging. I don't shoot open or pro because I am not comfortable judging out to 60 yet and I am not shooting a scope. Eventually I may step up but I like my pins for now. 

2006 Browning Illusion
28" @ 65LBS= 263 FPS
Tube Peep
String Chubs
String loop
Copper John 5 pin
TT Shakey Hunter Drop Away
Sims S-Coil Stab
Goldtip XT Hunter 5575's w/wraps & 4 in. Bohning Killer Vanes


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## GeoMike (Mar 17, 2006)

If I'm shooting fixed pins, shorter a.to a. bow and a 4" stabilizer, isn't Hunter Class where I should be?
:noidea: 

Don't know if it was your intent, but your post comes across as 'snobby'.


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## hoyt1500 (Jun 1, 2006)

*Hunter Class*

If you look at the reason for having a Hunter Class it is to get more hunters interested in shooting competion. I don't know about you but if I am an avid hunter and the only class to shoot in is 40 to 60 yards I'm not going to be interested in shooting competion seeing as I only practice to around 30 yards. And for 3D competion to prosper you need more people interested in shooting competion or you have no competition. I am all for bringing more people into the 3D sport. Once people start shooting in the HC class chances are they are going to try the MBR or Open classes. Besides it is not only the distance of the shot it is the the placement of the target that really makes the competition.


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

My hunting bow shoots 270. Its a Fred Bear TRX from 2004. It is the same bow that I take into the woods with me come October.

I normally shoot even on a Hunter Class IBO course and shot 6 down on my first ASA course.

When I first started shooting, I too, got tired of getting beat. I didn't whine and complain nor did I run out and buy a 1,000 dollar bow that shoots 300+. I practiced. And practiced hard. Next thing I knew, I was the one getting the trophies.

Moral of the story? A 1,000 dollar bow does not buy you a win and instead of complaining about losing, practice more. Practice yardage estimation, shot execution and shot placement.


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Actually I think it was 271.........LOL, Sorry I couldn't resist. :wink:


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

hutchies said:


> Actually I think it was 271.........LOL, Sorry I couldn't resist. :wink:


:doh:


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

ol'okie said:


> :doh:



Not sure I want you processing any of my loans.........


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## 11's (Jun 3, 2006)

I shoot HC.....and the only thing I see through my binoculars is "11's":wink:


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## huntelk (Jan 11, 2004)

*I can't speak for 689 but can fill in a few blanks for those outside KC*

Here locally in the Kansas City area we have a couple guys that are typically shooting 425-450 on 40 target (w/12-rings) in the hunter class. When clubs make them move up to release classes (out to 45-50 depending on the club), they stop coming to that club. I have to agree with clubs making you move up if you are shooting 400 or better. The hunter classes at the local shoots are designed for beginners and guys just getting out to warm up for hunting.

I know that several very good shooters (release shooters) have decided to shoot hunter class just to make a statement to the ones that need to move up (ie. St. Joeseph last week). I'm not sure that that is the answer. Several of us have tried peer pressure but keep hearing the "I don't hunt over 30 yards and don't want to shoot targets over that-so I'm staying in hunter class".

These guys are very good and can compete-maybe even beat 689 :wink: if they tried....hey, it's only 10-20 yards further in release. I'm not sure what anyone else's agenda is, but I work very hard to get new archers to come shoot 3-d and hate seeing them get discouraged when they are getting thrashed by 100-150 points. This is why my wife started shooting with in the men's classes. She was winning the local women's classes by 100 or more points and has had a tough time coming in 4th, 5th, and so on shooting against the men and not getting a trophy at every shoot like she was used to.

You guys know who you are, swallow your pride and do the right thing for our sport. I'm doing the right thing for the sport by inviting you, because I know you will probably be beating me in release:darkbeer:


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## McDawg (Feb 22, 2005)

I think half the fun is that anyone can win anytime. I have yet to clean a course but have shot 2 down. I shoot with guys that usually are up or only a few down but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. If you can't stand the competition don't shoot 3D, just hunt. There are people that get a comfort level in where they are at and don't like change  (who does). Just let them do there thing and practice, practice, practice. Maybe your white cane can hit the bullseye more that theirs. :wink: I shoot to relax and have fun, if I worried about whom I got beat by I'd want paid for the stress. And that isn't going to happen. Enjoy the sport.:thumbs_up


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## 689 (May 29, 2004)

Well put Huntelk. I have never shot the HUNTER CLASS. I just think it is funny that alot of people that can shoot a good score went to this class. And you guys get so mad.


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## Hasbro (Jul 5, 2003)

We started "Bowhunter A" & a "Bowhunter B" classes at our local shoot.

There are enough shooters in the BH class & this flights them better....Hopefully this will keep the interest of the new shooters untill they get better.

We just have the 180 & up shooters in BH A & the 179 & down in BH B....Based on 20 targets.


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## cheeseman1 (May 10, 2006)

*689 make up your mind?*

 I don't shoot the hunter class anymore, but you are right on 1 thing you do have to shoot good scores to win. But to look down on begginer shooters I don't think so. why I say this, you dont say a bowhunter should be able to shoot at least a high score and you have never shot the hunter class. these are your post. I did shoot over about every time I shot in hunter class and I moved up to the next level. If you love archery so much then help the class that will bring in the money at the shoots dont discourage these guys because they are not shooting like pros. Most guys that shoot just want to shoot for a fun practice not for high score. I bet your names not jeff hopkins either, and if you are so good how come I havent met you at the pro shoot off at some asa tournament. the way you talk you should go to bow novice and smoke the field every tournament:thumbs_do I doubt you could and matter of fact I bet you got a good excuse why you couldn't. I am glad you are in archery though its guys like you that make me practice so much harder. I will give you some advice dude, if you don't shoot in this field why are you crying for, this sounds like you meant to say the pro class instead of hunter class.:angry:


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## huntelk (Jan 11, 2004)

*cheeseman, those are mighty strong words!*

Usually I don't reply or even acknowledge guys that don't fill out any of their pofile, but will this time since you have completely missed the point.

The point is this-and I'll type slow so you can understand:

No one is making fun of or degrading beginners or the non-competitive bowhunters. As a matter of fact the reason for the commentary is the exact inverse of your observation. Many of us think the very competitive and skilled archers need to stop picking on the fore-mentioned people in the beginner level classes and move up a class. We are trying to get the newbies to come and don't want them to get discouraged by getting hammered by the sandbaggers.

And as far as your comments on 689's shooting ability I do believe he has won several state championships and beat many of the nationally known "hotdogs" at Vegas this spring. I for one am glad 689 moved to open so I don't have to shoot against him. Know if all the guys he has coached would move to open too maybe I wouldn't have to practice so hard!

By the way are you one of the local sandbagging bullies we are concerned with?


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

Huntelk, I shot a 3D with your wife once at Tri-County and thought I was going to have to go back to the truck to get some more nocks! She could hang in with any of the guys in mens release!!! :thumbs_up I wanted to quit shooting 12's because I knew if I did my arrow was in danger of getting eaten by her CXL's (that's my excuse for the low 12 count that day).

I agree with the general thinking behind this post, even though it was a little harshly worded. Nobody wants their clock cleaned, even if they're only shooting the cobwebs off their hunting rig. I think it is a good idea to bump shooters that consistently shoot high scores in the hunter class into the mens release class.

Me and Huntelk's club recently added a bowhunter class, which is intended for guys who are hunters and aren't looking to win a big trophy. The men's release class is still available, and the intent is that it will attract the more competitive-minded guys that are shooting hunting rigs.


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

I'm glad to have ol' 689 at the back stakes with me in the open class! :thumbs_up 

Somebody else to whip me.


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## huntelk (Jan 11, 2004)

*I have to agree 689 DOESN'T have a way with words!*

But I do know where he is coming from. He would make a great lineman coach-maybe the Chiefs should look into that (can you say HARSH?)!

Yeah, about the wife, she can be tough on nocks for sure! She knows that as soon as she wins a couple Men's hunter class shoots she will get moved up to release class-oh, but wait, that's my class......maybe I'd better re-think that!


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## 1wayin (Mar 26, 2006)

I kind of wish some organization would come out and make it shoot what you brought 50 yard max no restrictions on anything. I am new so there might be something out there like this I just haven't found it yet. Pay back 50% to first 3 places and the club keep the rest because lord knows they all need it. Start everyone at a certain time get there 30 minutes early so they can draw for partners and shooting places. If the same guy won every time you got two choices shoot better or shoot somewhere else. Does such a place exhist???I really get tired of seeing people bash hunter class(myself included) because all the sandbagging. Heck does anyone have any money I got the ideas I just need your money to make this thing work.....


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

1wayin, I think the crybabies screw those shoots up if and when they have them. The hunter class guys will be PO'd because the open class guys have an advantage over their equipment. If the hunter class guy beats the open class guy, there's the inevitable open class whiner that says that there's no way that the hunter class guy actually shot such a good score. Then there's the cheaters who screw it up for everybody, and lets not fool ourselves...There are a lot of unbelievable scores put up by mediocre shooters at some of the club shoots. I'm all for breaking groups at sanctioned shoots, but half the fun of a 3D is shooting with your friends.

Its interesting to watch people stink it up on the practice range, and then see the unbelievably high score they turn in at the end of the day. I guess they somehow manage to sleep at night, but I wouldn't be able to.


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

> Here locally in the Kansas City area we have a couple guys that are typically shooting 425-450 on 40 target (w/12-rings) in the hunter class. When clubs make them move up to release classes (out to 45-50 depending on the club), they stop coming to that club.


We may be talking about different classes? The hunter class I'm referring to is in IBO. Releases are used across the board. Now, there's a bowhunter class for non-release users.

Here's my only problem with good shooters moving from Hunter to Open: Equipment. The only way to compete with Open class shooters is to shoot Open class equipment. I'm not saying that you can't compete with a hunting sight and a hunting stabilizer and hunting arrows, but a level playing field is always easier in my book. Why should a guy that can shoot up on a hunter class course, feel the need to spend 300-500 dollars on equipment just so he can let other guys in the hunter class have a shot at winning???

I moved this year to Open Class. I spent close to 1000 dollars for a competition bow and equipment. But it wasn't because I felt sorry for other hunter class shooters. It was because I wanted more of a challenge. And maybe that's your point, but there's no way I can believe that every hunter class shooter that is really good should be forced to move up. To each their own. 

Like I mentioned earlier, if you want to compete...practice. As long as the other guys are using the same equipment you are, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to compete.


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

For clarity, we do actually have two classes for release shooters that shoot hunting rigs. There's _bowhunter, mens release_, and then _open_ also.

Fingers is a totally different class, and its not what we're talking about. 

What's being discussed is the idea of bumping someone from _bowhunter_ to _mens release_. There's no difference in equipment in that class. Just a higher level of competition in theory. Shooting open class is totally up to the shooter!


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*You want to have fun..How does this sound*

Some of our shoots that have hunter classes are calling them "Ethical Hunter Class" You get deducted -5 points for anything outside the 8 ring....In other words 5's are really minus 5's....I think its a good Idea...

A missed target is what it is; a big fat zero...So you are better off missing than making a bad shot

Its a lot of fun

Tom


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## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

ol'okie said:


> Here's my only problem with good shooters moving from Hunter to Open: Equipment. The only way to compete with Open class shooters is to shoot Open class equipment.


While I do think that longer stabilizers, scopes, etc. help out in the open class I don't think that just because someone shoots these things it makes them a better shooter in the open class. I know several folks around here that shoot unlimited (fixed pin) from the open stake and post up scores that are in line with if not better than many of the open class shooters. At tournaments around here where they don't have an Unlimited class, they will shoot with us in the Open. I think alot of the scores posted are attributed to the shooter and his/her skill with the equipment they are shooting whatever that may be.

But on the subject of people staying in the hunter classes and beatin' up on the others in the class, I totally agree. If they are routinely shooting up by 20+ points, it's time for them to move up. I see that around here too, mostly in the bowhunter novice class shooting about 20-25 yards max. Guys shooting 25 targets and posting scores that are 10 to 15 up on low 12's. That should tell you something right there. The fact of the matter is, 90% of people that shoot 3D at some kind of sanctioned event are going to be competitive by nature. They can say "Oh, I'm just in it for the practice and the fun..." but they want the recognition as well. It's just human nature. If you're new to the sport, and you're routinely getting spanked by the same people in the same class (hunter) it will get discouraging because even if you really are in for fun... It's still no fun to lose, no matter what the reason. But at the same time, these guys that won't move up know that if/when they do finally move up.. They are more than likely going to be on the receiving end of the butt-whoopins', at least for a while. So, they don't want to lose that status they have, it could bruise their egos and we can't have that. :tongue: 

Around here at most all of the shoots, they have a sort of unwritten rule.. You win a certain class twice, you move up automatically or you don't shoot that tournament anymore.


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## 689 (May 29, 2004)

*Hunter Class*

Well I see some of you understand what I am saying. I dont shoot this class and never have. I like to shoot all types of archery. And I like to see new people come in to the sport.The hunter class is like indoor archery. A new guy comes in to shoot and every one is shooting 300 with 50x. He gets a little intimidated he wont come back. All Iam saying is give the new guy a chance. Move up you will only make your self a better shooter. Lets talk about some thing else. I would like to put up a challenge to all of the 3D shooters around KC. Come out and shoot the MISSOURI STATE OUT DOOR you would like it trust me.


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

*Hey 689*

Do you cry when someone shoots 60X's too,maybe when you shoot 60X you should have to go to Vegas face then when you shoot 45X's Vegas you should have to shoot 70M Fita.So what your really saying is if you can shoot 60X-5spot or 45X-Vegas take off the scope and long rod and step up to hunter class equipment.


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

huntelk said:


> Usually I don't reply or even acknowledge guys that don't fill out any of their pofile, but will this time since you have completely missed the point.
> 
> The point is this-and I'll type slow so you can understand:
> 
> ...


I agree with the sandbaggers at the local level but when you shoot the major tourns IBO ASA NFAA equipment dictates class,that doesn't mean one is better than the other.


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## BLB752 (Aug 16, 2004)

Northforker said:


> ASA Hunter Class is 40 Yards max +/- and the 12 ring is in the corner, drop a little low or to the wrong side and your an 8. ASA is 280 fps MAX. IBO is 35 yards max +/-, not 30.
> 
> Get the facts straight.


That's what I shoot, but I sometimes wonder if I would be better off moving back to Mens fixed pins. 10 more yards, but not nearly as many folks shooting it. Seems you need to shoot even or better to take a trophy in hunter class. Now some of the clubs do have a bowhunter novice that is 30 yards max.


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## Ohio Bow (Jan 15, 2005)

I shoot 3D Hunter class more or less for the practice. What do you care what speed or how expensive one bow set up is or even what yard they shoot from? Maybe you should take a deep breathe and worry about yourself,although I appreciate your concern.


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

689, I'm planning on shooting the Missouri outdoor 3D in Excelsior Springs if I can make it that weekend. Do you know if they're enforcing a 280fps max speed or are you ok as long as you're shooting 5 grains per pound?


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## bigdog4real (Jan 4, 2006)

The Siberian club in Dannemora, NY Takes the average middle score and splits the hunter class into an A & B group 1st 2nd & 3rd in each group that way the half way decent shooters get some recognition on the way up the ranks, Pretty Good idea seems to work well! They also urge the top shooters to shoot another class. Looks like shooting MBR maybe the way to go as I only see a handfull in that class. 40-50 yds is a long way!


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

Shooting and competing in hunter class for me is a matter of choice. I hunt and shooting 3D with pins and short stabilizer helps my hunting game.

I also compete in FITA, Spots and Field and use a scope and long rods for those competitions.

If you want to “WIN” in hunter class you should practice and get better.
If you want to “WIN” in hunter class, don’t expect to accomplish it by removing the good shooters from this class.

Hunter class competition in 3D is just that, a competition. Work at it and get better.

If I pay registration at a tournament is to compete and to try to win. If you feel you are not good enough to win, don’t compete.
Like I said: If you want to win, practice and get better!


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## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

But by nature.. If you want to "win", that means that you are at least somewhat competitive, correct?

So, if you're truly competitive wouldn't you want to move up to a better class and shoot against people that would bring you to a higher level? I mean, what does it prove if you routinely beat the same people over and over again? This is just my opinion, but if I were to shoot in the hunter class and just devestate the field every time I went out it would get boring to me. Same goes with shooting in Open. Not that I'm remotely near that point shooting in Open class, but if I were to routinely shoot here locally and just clean the clocks of all the local guys.. I would want to find other places to shoot, other shooters to shoot against.

To me, "winning" and being "competitive" are not the same thing. Being competitive is driving yourself to be better all the time, not just being happy with the "win".

Just my two pennies. :wink:


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## cheeseman1 (May 10, 2006)

*huntelk i'm a raiders fan*

:wink: I may have missed the point you was making but remember its not your post. read a few of them and see if others don't see it the way I took it. Now I am man enough to say I shouldn't be so harsh on a fellow shooter like 689 and I don't care if he is state champion or begginer. If he is going to comment on a class like the hunter class with his experience then he should know that in todays market to get a nice setup means around a grand but that don't make you a good shooter now does it. a good shooter comes with patience and time, some quicker than others. but this is what this class is all about its a learning process for the deer kill and to be a better shot. I shoot alot of tournaments and no I don't sandbag I shoot open a locally and Yes I am a winner and no not all the time but yeh I get lucky sometimes, the sun shines on every dogs back sooner or later. I have to comment on this class because this is the future of our sport whether it be for hunting, fun or competition. I have friends that have shot for years and they have never gotten close to shootin even and for someone to say only 30 yards I will tell you that I have seen the best in my state and we have as good as shooters as any state and every one struggles and sometimes 30 yards is an enemy shot not a give me. If he meant sandbaggers then he should have said it not meant it I only call them the way I see em. I think you may know him personally and may knew what he meant but see I don't and all I see is the post and you my friend you know I was right but you are too I shouldn't bash a state champion like that but he must of forgot where he came from because times have changed and people seem to struggle more this day in time whether its in archery or life maybe that might awnser his question of why these hunters class shooters aint doin as good


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

NE1C_my_arrow said:


> But by nature.. If you want to "win", that means that you are at least somewhat competitive, correct?
> 
> So, if you're truly competitive wouldn't you want to move up to a better class and shoot against people that would bring you to a higher level? I mean, what does it prove if you routinely beat the same people over and over again? This is just my opinion, but if I were to shoot in the hunter class and just devestate the field every time I went out it would get boring to me. Same goes with shooting in Open. Not that I'm remotely near that point shooting in Open class, but if I were to routinely shoot here locally and just clean the clocks of all the local guys.. I would want to find other places to shoot, other shooters to shoot against.
> 
> ...


Have you done that? ................... 

Practice what you preach?.............:wink:


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## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

monty53 said:


> Have you done that? ...................
> 
> Practice what you preach?.............:wink:


Have I done what?

Since you know me so well, why don't you tell me if I'm practicing what I preach. If you're asking me if I've ever stayed in hunter class just to beat up on other shooters then the answer is no. If you really must know, I haven't shot in any "hunter" class in over 8 years. In fact, I've probably only competed in about three "hunter" class shoots.. Back when I first started shooting 3D, somebody made the comment that shooting a moveable single pin sight was better than shooting pins.. So, I put on one. Little did I know that it would move me up into Open class and when I showed up at the next shoot I got the news. I never looked back, and have been shooting Open class ever since..

Why don't you get your facts straight before you start telling people to "practice what they preach".


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

:moviecorn


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## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

kcarcherguy said:


> :moviecorn


:lol:

Hand me some of that popcorn too... 

I'm not trying to start anything, but I just love it when people start rattlin' off at the head and have no idea who it is they're even talking to from a personal standpoint. :wink:


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

What's funny to me is that some seem to think that 689's telling them they should have to shoot open class if they get too good for bowhunter class. 

At a lot of clubs around here we have two classes for shooters that shoot hunting rigs, and its sad that some choose to sandbag and never move up to men's release, which is the more "competitive" class.


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## ol'okie (Feb 1, 2005)

kcarcherguy said:


> What's funny to me is that some seem to think that 689's telling them they should have to shoot open class if they get too good for bowhunter class.


Why is that funny? I attend 3 local shoots on a regular basis and if you want to shoot a release and pins, there are two classes...Hunter and Open. If any of the Hunter class shooters from my area read his post, that's exactly what they would get from his post.


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## kcarcherguy (Feb 18, 2005)

Understood. But read mine and Huntelk's posts, and they clarify what's going on around here in the KC area, where 689's from. So yes, its funny to me that people are still wound up despite the clarification of the root issue.

689, tell the okies you're sorry! :wink:


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

NE1C_my_arrow said:


> routinely beat the same people over and over again? This is just my opinion, but if I were to shoot in the hunter class and just devestate the field every time I went out it would get boring to me.
> :wink:


Done that!??.............:wink:


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## BK Artworks (Nov 7, 2005)

I have just read this whole post and to be honest I was ticked about 689's comments and some others but the reason that it appears to me is that you went off about hunter classes in general and not really actually state that it is in your area that you have a lot of sandbaggers. But I do know it happens everywhere but I shoot the Hunger Class here and we go by IBO rules and to be honest I love this class for a few reasons. One it is a competitive class and like many other classes you have to shoot good scores to win. Now I have not won and I have not shot near an even score but I am getting better. Now the reason I chose and was was advised to shoot this class is that I was just getting back into 3D after not really shooting/hunting for a long time and it would get me use to the way it has changed since I last shot any 3d shoots. Now I have one trophy from winning a shoot many many many years ago(late 80's) when I shot all the time. I never had nor do I now have the money to get big dollar target rigs. But I do shoot for fun and the only competition that I see on a course is me. I go to the shoot with a goal and if I beat that goal great if I dont then I figure out why I didn't. Now not every one will do this but if I beat my personal goal and that leads to a top finish great. 

Now I am a very very very competitive person and use to race motocross and offroad in the intermediate and then some expert classes until I got hurt. Do I want to win my class... heck yeah! Do I want to post the best score I can... heck yeah! Do I want to improve to a point where I want to move to a different class... heck yeah! But the majority of the hunters class guys are here to have fun and get practice for hunting season. Now a lot of them here only shoot a few times a month and some are only at the shoot. The funny thing is they put up good scores but if they did that and was winning should they be made to move up... I dont think so. Some of the people shooting hunter class has trouble judging yardage and if they are comfortable shooting that range 30-37yards etc... and they are having fun whether they win or not is what I see as important. Here at our club we offer two options if you win your class... you can get a trophy or a free shoot at the next shoot that you attend. 

Now I do understand what you are talking about with guys shooting that are sandbaggers. I've dealt with them in racing and have been lucky enough to rarely see someone here shooting that are sandbaggers. Are they out there... I'm sure they are everywhere along with some that cheat etc but as experienced as the one's complaining about this here you should be incouraging these classes and if you see someone who you know is sandbagging/cheating then you should point them out to the club/organization hosting the shoot or talk to them to find out why they are doing this or what their view is on it. Heck I have seen people sign up in the wrong class unintentionally so there are many reasons for somethings and sometimes the only thing it takes is a little question asked in a reasonable mannor to get to the bottom of something. Sometimes the answer/cure to a problem is the simplest one. 

Do I have fun...heck yeah. Would I like to win every shoot I entered... heck yeah but in the real world it is pretty darned near impossable to do and if you are then odds are they are sandbaggers or cheating. But I have also seen some shooters go from an "advanced" class down to a "lower" class and have problems for several reasons. Some have problems judging low yardage some have trouble adjusting to the different setup that they have to use or whatever but the times I have seen people drop down to a class that many view as a beginner class is to get ready for hunting. Sometimes they make it without a problem and some dont.

Now I know this is a long long post but the point of shooting 3D or whatever is to have fun and in my thoughts/views even if I was shooting the pro class for money I want to do the best I can and win but if I am not having fun then I dont want to do it. Oh yeah there are 2 main hunter classes for IBO as well which is hunter and advanced(money) hunter classes. The latter is a more competitive and shoot our to 45 yards so if someone wants to still shoot pins/hunter class maybe more clubs should make an advance hunter for those people that eatup the normal hunter class and post top scores all the time. 

I dont think any here is a personal cut down but I dont understand how some people in other classes can look down on a class that they dont shoot. If you see a problem bring it up to help find an answer or a solution and hopefully it can be done with calm heads and reasonable talk instead of anger and arguements.


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## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

monty53 said:


> Done that!??.............:wink:


:lol: 

Ok, so now I'm confused.. Your use of mixed punctuation has me at a loss. Are you trying to tell me _*YOU'VE *_done that (because of the exclaimation point).. or are you asking me if _*I'VE *_done that in a vehemant nature (exclaimation point, with question marks). I thought I had covered my position on this, but I guess I didn't so I'll type this slow so that maybe you can understand what I'm trying to say.. Here we go:

I've already explained in detail above what class I shoot in, and just how much experience I've got in the hunter classes (which is next to none due to my brilliant idea of shooting a moveable sight early in my 3D "career" because someone told me it was better :tongue: ). The point I was trying to make with the excerpt you've chosen to "quote" me with is that it's in my nature to want to shoot against people that are better than me, if I were to compete with people that I could routinely beat *whatever *the class may be.. It would be no fun for me, where is the challenge in that? That's why I shoot in Open, because I have a LONG way to go before I'm routinely beating ANYONE in that class. That is what is fun for me and I don't have an ego that's easily bruised by getting beat. It doesn't matter how good you think you are, there is always someone better. I don't like getting beat one bit, but if I'm beat by people that are truly better than I am then it makes me that much more determined to get better so that maybe next time I'll be a little closer and then a little closer still... And then finally, I might be able to be consistant enough to be consistantly near the top here locally... Then, when that happens I'll start branching out and shooting bigger shoots, nationals, etc.... I don't need to compete in a class that I know I will win in just so I can get my ego stroked, and take home that $4 plaque. I took second place in Open class in one of the local shoots two weeks ago, and didn't even take the plaque home with me. I don't care about the plaques, at the level I'm shooting at now I just want to get better and more consistant. When I get to the level that I can shoot consistantly within the Open class here locally (meaning shooting near even, even or up) then I want to branch out into the bigger shoots and see what I can do there. I'm sure I'll get my hat handed to me more often than not, but that's cool... If possible, I'll work my way up there just like I'm doing here now. I'm not afraid of getting beat.. I'm afraid of giving up, and giving in.

This is my personal preference of course, and the way I choose to view it... My whole take on being "competitive" is striving to better yourself and your game, and not the "win" itself. People who are truly "competitive" will take the time to better themselves and they realize that it's a never ending commitment. This doesn't mean that you're not succesfull or you're a loser if you don't make it to the world championships, or you can't shoot that "up" score every time.... But as long as you keep the right frame of mind, always strive to better yourself and your game, and keep things in perspective.. THAT makes you a competitor, whatever level that may be on... Local, regional, national, or world.


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

*NE1C_my_arrow*

NE1C_my_arrow 

This thread is about the hunter class in 3D.

This is my take from observation on these class shooters:
Most people that shoot hunter class (about 90 %) do it with hunting equipment and within the guidelines and restrictions of that class. 
Most do it to get better and be ready for hunting season.
Most do it because that is what they like to shoot, hunter class with hunting equipment.
Some of them are better than others either because they practice more, have better equipment or are naturally more proficient.
Those that are better are going to finish with the higher scores and win most of the time.
Most are not interested in “red shiny bows” “scopes” or “long stabilizers”.
Some just can’t afford it.
They feel uncomfortable judging yardage beyond 35 yards and with the price of good arrows nowadays, can’t afford to loose a few each weekend.
Nevertheless, they like to go to the local 3D shoots and compete.
Most of them will never go to a major shoot or a far away hunt.
It’s called “for the fun of it” and at the same time, a little competition doesn’t hurt!

That my friend is what constitutes the “Hunter Class” in the USA!
That is why most manufacturers and pro-shops of archery equipment cater mainly to those hunter class people.

By your own admission, you don’t shoot hunter class and if you did, most probably you’ll be at the same level you are now.
Based on that; what do you feel then qualifies you to advise those good shooters in hunter class to stop shooting what they love and move up?


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## elkhunter130 (Nov 26, 2005)

I dont know about where you are but the hunter class out here has you shooting out past 70 yards and sometimes as far as 101 (Redding). I have never cleaned a course but I have come dam close a few times.

Out of 40 targets, I can shoot in the 330 range or better on any given day and have shot over 360 before. Our courses are very demanding and the compition is tough. If I was held to only thirty yards I would like to see the results. Most of our shoots are also unmarked yardage which adds to the fun.


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## BK Artworks (Nov 7, 2005)

Elkhunter this is nothing personal towards you or your club but to me those yardage's are idiotic and rediculous. I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun to shoot as I have shot out to 60 yards on my own but I would never take a shot over 40 yards max and most of the time cant shoot over 25-30 yards where I hunt so for people like me it dont make sense to shoot 70+ yards and I have never heard of a course having a shot that had a 100 yard shot in it unless it was a money shot. But hey I'd like to see it and really doubt that you'd ever see me take a shot like that though.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*To back you up..Not that you need it*



monty53 said:


> NE1C_my_arrow
> 
> This thread is about the hunter class in 3D.
> 
> ...


I always shoot in the Hunter class if they have one...Not to sound like a bragert, but I do fairly well. I shoot nothing but my hunting set up; shoot the same course and stakes that the open and unlimited folks shoot at...

I shoot hunting weight arrows, 400+ grains so my arrows are not screeming...My scores have been high enough to place or at times win in the ulimited class...This weekend I ended up with a 390 and that score was high enough to place in the above mentioned classes...

Quite frankly there have been shoots that I could have just posted in a class other than Hunter Class and brought home a trophy, but my integrity ensures me that I will post my score in the class that I intended to shoot in...

There are shooters in my area that shoot in the hunter class that could easily place or beat shooters in the open or unlimited classes...

Like monty says people shoot in the classes they like to shoot in for a reason.."personal prefrence"

Before they had hunter classes I had to post my scores in the unlimited class competing against folks with lighter arrows mand movable sights...What did that mean, I had to get better to do well in that class...It didnt bother me , I just had to get better to compete with those folks...

Bottom line, why should anyone have to move up *"if you want to call it that" *to a different class because they shoot well in the hunter class...
It dont matter what class you shoot in, there is always someone better and on any given day anyone can be beaten...

I like the hunter class because it puts me on the same playing field with other like archers, rather than competing with folks with lighter arrows and movable sights

Just my 2 cents

Tom


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## ratboss (Aug 14, 2003)

*Missouri State 3D*

KCArcherguy it will be 280fps, with the 3% variable. I hear they will also chrono every bow before & I think the top 5 after. Hope this helps.

Also I have seen 689 shoot 60x frequently with a pin & short stabilizer. He also shot 36 up at the state 3D last year ( with pins ) in pouring rain. He can shoot a bow. But I know how he is.................always stirring the pot.


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## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

monty53 said:


> NE1C_my_arrow
> 
> This thread is about the hunter class in 3D.
> 
> ...


I see your point, and agree with the majority of what you have said here... If you had just stated your opinion in the first place instead of throwing a couple of snide "Have you done this" and "Practice what you preach" comments out there at me, all this disscusion could have been avoided. I still think that there are many who will not move up because they don't want to leave that comfort zone they are in. That's fine, but if you go back and look the majority of my posts in this thread are in regards to how I personally define a "competitor". It's someone that wants to better themselves and their game. If you routinely compete against people that are below your particular level of proficiency then you are doing yourself an injustice. At many of the local shoots we have here, there are usually a few sponsored shooters and they rarely ever turn in a card. They don't care about the plaques at this level, they are just out there basically to practice when there isn't a bigger shoot going on somewhere else. But for me personally, I like to find out how I did against them. It's that competitive nature in me, and it allows me to set a benchmark of where I want to be someday. Regardless of my own personal skill level at this point I will shoot anywhere, anytime and against anybody within my means of getting there to the shoot. There is no subsitute for experience and getting to shoot against people that are on a higher level than you are is the best experience you can get because I really do feel it elevates your game when you do. If these guys who are out there beating up on the other hunter class shooters were really only interested in shooting "for the fun of it" as you state, then don't turn in the card. If they are truly out there for the fun of it, and they don't need their egos stroked by a $4 plaque what would it matter. They know they shot well, that should be reward enough don't you think? I'm not saying that if you shoot 20+ up in the hunter class, you *HAVE *to move up. That is decided by the sanctioning body or whomever is putting on the shoot. 

Now, as to how I'd do in the hunter class.. I would love to shoot it, if all that mattered to me was winning. I don't have trouble shooting pins and a short stabilizer, and my yardage judging skills are pretty good out to 30-35 yards. It's just that I've been shooting Open for so long, that I'm not going to go drop a class just so I can shoot better scores for the sake of my ego. I say I've been shooting Open for 8+ years, but only in the last two years have I gotten somewhat serious about it. When I started getting serious about it last year I was like ex-wolverine, I shot basically hunter equipment in the Open class.. the only thing "Open" about my setup was the moveable sight. It was an old Cobra with about a .039 up pin that covered most of a 10 ring on average sized targets at 40 yards. My arrows weighed in at 435 grains and they were coming out of my bow at roughly 250 FPS. I shot 63 pounds at 65% letoff out of that bow as well. With that setup I routinely averaged 9 points per target just about everywhere I shoot around here, but just can't get myself over that hump and shoot even.

So as a result and with the hopes of maybe helping out my chances I decided to improve my equipment this year, bought a new bow with higher letoff (Rytera Buttet X, in camo.. no fancy colors for me thanks), stepped up to better/lighter arrows and shaved off about 100 grains of weight and upped my speed to about 280+, bought at used Toxonics naildriver sight and put a used sure loc black eagle on it with .019 razor pin in it (no lens, as I can't shoot them), and finally stepped up to a 24" stabilizer. I'm still working through all this stuff, but it's starting to come together for me and I've shot this setup reasonably well this year. But I'm not as comfortable with it yet as I was my old setup. It's not worse or better, just different for me. My weakest point is yardage judging, always has been and when I get that figured out I'll be where I want to be as my shooting was never the problem.

Anyway, Monty I mean no ill will toward you on anyone else on this website.. Everyone has opinions and everyone's opinion should be respected. I respect yours, and I hope you can respect mine.


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## bowaddict (Dec 31, 2002)

Since so many people on this thread KNOW 689....could one of you please ask him to answer my PM to him in reguard to where the Hogg-It is that I bought off of him two weeks ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks in advance


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

bowaddict said:


> Since so many people on this thread KNOW 689....could one of you please ask him to answer my PM to him in reguard to where the Hogg-It is that I bought off of him two weeks ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Thanks in advance


:moviecorn


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

He is probably going to screw you over because your going to shoot hunter class with it.


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## huntelk (Jan 11, 2004)

huntelk i'm a raiders fan 

I would have never guessed that:doh: 



cheeseman1 said:


> :wink: I may have missed the point you was making but remember its not your post. read a few of them and see if others don't see it the way I took it. Now I am man enough to say I shouldn't be so harsh on a fellow shooter like 689 and I don't care if he is state champion or begginer. If he is going to comment on a class like the hunter class with his experience then he should know that in todays market to get a nice setup means around a grand but that don't make you a good shooter now does it. a good shooter comes with patience and time, some quicker than others. but this is what this class is all about its a learning process for the deer kill and to be a better shot. I shoot alot of tournaments and no I don't sandbag I shoot open a locally and Yes I am a winner and no not all the time but yeh I get lucky sometimes, the sun shines on every dogs back sooner or later. I have to comment on this class because this is the future of our sport whether it be for hunting, fun or competition. I have friends that have shot for years and they have never gotten close to shootin even and for someone to say only 30 yards I will tell you that I have seen the best in my state and we have as good as shooters as any state and every one struggles and sometimes 30 yards is an enemy shot not a give me. If he meant sandbaggers then he should have said it not meant it I only call them the way I see em. I think you may know him personally and may knew what he meant but see I don't and all I see is the post and you my friend you know I was right but you are too I shouldn't bash a state champion like that but he must of forgot where he came from because times have changed and people seem to struggle more this day in time whether its in archery or life maybe that might awnser his question of why these hunters class shooters aint doin as good



I too was harsh, and should have seen this coming. I really in all actuality think most of us are on the same page, just maybe not on the same paragraph. What it boils down to in a short note is this: 

Most of us want to see new people join our sport. When we recruit new people ourselves into the sport we like to see them enjoy it and stay with it. There will always be those whom will do whatever it takes to win including entering classes way under their skill level. There will always be a few of us that will step up if we see the newbies/beginners getting wailed on.

I apologize to those that found my post harsh and hope that the miscommunications have been clarified.

Cheeseman, look me up if you ever get to KC and I'll not only shoot with you, but I'll take you out for BBQ and a beer!


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## gmbellew (Aug 11, 2004)

huntelk said:


> Cheeseman, look me up if you ever get to KC and I'll not only shoot with you, but I'll take you out for BBQ and a beer!


hopefully you will take him to jack's stack and feed him some ribs :darkbeer:


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## 689 (May 29, 2004)

*Spot hogg*

Be nice to that spot hogg. It has won many shoots and they were not in the hunter class. I sent it to you. It is coming to you soon. My hose is like the open stake its a little further than the hgunter stake. It might take a little longer to get there. But trust me it will get there.


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## bowaddict (Dec 31, 2002)

THANK YOU 689!!!
Hopefully you take LESS time on the open stake than you do keeping your word!!!!
By the way...ANYTIME you want a good GOOD WHOOPIN in the HC...COME AND GET IT!!!!!!!!


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## johnnylb (Apr 15, 2003)

*Wow!!!*

I guess it's true...we can't get along...can we. Does it really matter what class you shoot in? Last time I checked, I thought we did this for fun, and to meet folks that enjoy archery as much as we do. HC, MBR, MBO...doesn't matter. 

The facts of the matter are simple. We have multiple national organizations, each with their own classes and gear restrictions (that are different). Then, the local clubs tend to do their own thing. Makes for some interesting shoots. The bottom line, in my opinion, hunter class rocks. It gives new entrants the chance to enjoy a shoot, and not lose too many arrows. Hopefully, they enjoy it enough to come back and bring their friends. Most of the true hunters could care less about score anyway, it doesn't fill the freezer. 

Archery needs us to pull together, not apart. There are enough people out there trying to tear us away from archery already, we can't give them fuel for the fire. (They probably read AT just to get ideas, since they can't come up with an original thought on their own.  )


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

689 said:


> Be nice to that spot hogg. It has won many shoots and they were not in the hunter class. I sent it to you. It is coming to you soon. My hose is like the open stake its a little further than the hgunter stake. It might take a little longer to get there. But trust me it will get there.


You are definitely a hoser!Must be selling that site for a friend huh!


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## 689 (May 29, 2004)

*spot hogg*

Thats it. It was a friend cant you tell I have a lot of them on here.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Hmm....
Interesting Discussion.

I know I am a 'fairly' good shooter, but I am terrible at ranging (no practice).
I just got back into archery and bowhunting. I have not taken game shots past 20 yards and when I set up my stand this fall I'll mark out my 20 and 30 yard ranges.

Having said that, I shot my first 3D event this past month.
It was only my second time ever on a 3D course and the first time I shot an older Nova @ white stakes.
This time I shot my Diablo and I shot blue stakes.
I placed 4th out of around 50 shooters.

I did pretty well. 
I know I can not shoot that well past 30 yards. I managed 5s or so on the 30+ yard targets, I just happened to smoke everything 30 and under, but it took a LOT of concentration for those out past 25 yards. I also use my real hunting rig, not a target rig set up for 3D hunter class. TR Matrix, WB, and standard peep with no magnifier.

I would resent being immediately moved to Open Class based on my placement. I have a long way to go, and I dont have the money to commit to the Open class. 

Not all good (or better) shooters are sandbagging. Some, like me, simply walk out of the woods, and shoot the event for the fun of it. Isn't that what it should be about?


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## headhunter75422 (Feb 15, 2005)

Hunter class I see alot of guys sandbagging at local tourny's. They go to the bigger shoots try to jump into another class and get it handed to them, thats funny @#$%! If these so called bowhunters would move into the upper pins classes, like the MBR and Unlimited class more people would come to these shoots, novice hunters getting into 3d hate being intimidated by guys that shouldnt be shooting these classes. And no I dont shoot hunter class, I shoot MBR and Unlimited. If I go to a club shoot that doesnt have my class I shoot the open class with pins and usually win. That makes those scope shooters mad but I believe it makes me a better all around shooter. Just my 2 cents

Step up shoot.
MBR and Unlimited 
We need more people in these classes....


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## 689 (May 29, 2004)

I could not have said it better my self.


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## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

Shaman said:


> I placed 4th out of around 50 shooters.





Shaman said:


> I would resent being immediately moved to Open Class based on my placement. I have a long way to go, and I dont have the money to commit to the Open class.


Not knocking you're acheivement Shaman as 4th out of 50 shooters is great with not that much 3D time under your belt, but the shooters that most are referring to in this thread are the people that routinely win the hunter class and shoot "up" by incredible amounts at every shoot. These are the people that should be moving to a more challenging class. In my area, you are not asked to move up in class until you win in that class twice.

And headhunter.. Well said.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

NE1C_my_arrow said:


> In my area, you are not asked to move up in class until you win in that class twice.


Is that in a year?
At the same course?
Based on how many shooters?

I am not playing devil's advocate, I am really asking.
I can see what people are saying.
I just have a hard time wrapping my head around it.
If I were winning every time, I would look for more competition in the higher class. If I could not afford the good gear all at once, I would use it as an opportunity to get better while I bought my gear up piece-meal.

But then, I'm shooting for the fun of it and if I do well, then I leave with an even bigger smile. Maybe if I get more serious, my attitude might change.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Northforker said:


> ASA Hunter Class is 40 Yards max +/- and the 12 ring is in the corner, drop a little low or to the wrong side and your an 8. ASA is 280 fps MAX. IBO is 35 yards max +/-, not 30.
> 
> Get the facts straight.


Exactly! And you will have to shoot better than even...look at the scores my friend. I haven't read all of the posts in this thread but you are inacurate...perhaps you are refering to Novice.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

> Hunter class I see alot of guys sandbagging at local tourny's. They go to the bigger shoots try to jump into another class and get it handed to them, thats funny @#$%! If these so called bowhunters would move into the upper pins classes, like the MBR and Unlimited class more people would come to these shoots, novice hunters getting into 3d hate being intimidated by guys that shouldnt be shooting these classes. And no I dont shoot hunter class, I shoot MBR and Unlimited. If I go to a club shoot that doesnt have my class I shoot the open class with pins and usually win. That makes those scope shooters mad but I believe it makes me a better all around shooter. Just my 2 cents
> 
> Step up shoot.
> MBR and Unlimited
> We need more people in these classes....


2006 is my second year of shooting competitive 3D, last year I shot Hunter Class in IBO and ASA. I was able to enter quite a few local, state and National level events in IBO and a couple in ASA.
I had a good year, we'll leave it at that.

When the year was over I didn't even give it a second thought....time to move up to MBR. I couldn't care less really what other guys choose to do but I just can't understand when I look through years worth of HC results and keep seeing the same names in the upper percentage. 

To be honest when the season ended last year I almost felt like I sincerely didn't belong in HC but I don't know how to explain it??? On one hand I understand that the season was no cake walk, the competition was high (and I took it seriously) and there are some fantastic shooters in HC but a small part of me started almost feeling sort of guilty especially when I would get put in a group at a Local, state or National shoot with guys who would LOVE to win but realistically just aren't going to be competitive with the upper % of shooters.........
I realize EVERY class is this way so where do you draw that line of being in an appropriate class based upon ability or potential ability??

I have had friends asking me why in the world I would move up after only one year and the potential this year would hold for me in HC, and I have a hard time explaining it without sounding everything from arrogant to stupid.:embara: 

I know what I felt in my heart so I moved up, I want to further my shooting skills and I just think HC will cause my shooting ability to stagnate. Learning the long stakes is fun and I have to compete with the open guys at certain shoots because of a lack of specific long yardage pin classes but I don't care. I see my skills improving, my yardage estimation getting better and I like the feeling of a higher level of competition in general. I have my first IBO MBR National shoot this weekend in Erie and am looking forward to seeing where I stand now and what level of improvement is needed to become competitive again.
Either way I'm comfortable feeling like I'm where I belong even though I know I have work to do.


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## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

Shaman said:


> Is that in a year?
> At the same course?
> Based on how many shooters?
> 
> ...


Shaman,

Yes, if you win twice at the same course in the same year.. They ask you to move up. Number of shooters varies from shoot to shoot, but there is always that core group of people that shoot the "circuit" around here. Then you'll have a larger crowd at the end of the year shoots, championships, etc.. Believe me when I say, the "circuit" around here is a loosly used term at best. Alot of great shoots on great courses, but they aren't always as formal as most would be accustomed to. That's why I don't really care about where I place in these events. My goal is to shoot even or up, which I have yet to achieve at any course around here. I've gotten close many times, but never have been able to break that barrier. I've recently started trying to branch out and shoot some other places, but with the cost of gas and travel expenses it gets hard. I'm going on vacation starting on Friday, and have two shoots lined up in Georgia I'm going to try to hit while I'm there. Any experience you can gain, no matter if you win or come in last is good experience in my humble opinion. That's the way I look at it. 

Your comment about winning every time and looking for more competition in the higher classes is EXACTLY the point I'm trying to get across. What fun is it if you just routinely beat up on the people in your class. To me, it proves nothing. I understand that the people that do this, had to work to get there. But to me, a true competitor would naturally want to move up and shoot a harder course no matter what the equipment. As you have stated, you can buy equipment as deemed necessary and financially feasable. That's pretty much what I'm doing at the moment. Everything with the exception of my bow I either bought used or already had coming off my other bow. I shot basically bowhunter equipment in the Open class for a long time, and did pretty well here locally but could never quite reach the top. I was talking to one of the people here that is sponsored and puts on some of the local shoots around here. She basically said, that if you can shoot the same equipment that your competitors are shooting in the same class.. then why not? Many of these people in Open here were shooting 4X lenses, long stabilizers, extra light arrows, etc.. So, I started gathering up the things I needed. Longer stabilizer, toxonics sight, lighter arrows to up my speed, etc.. To see if that would help me. I tried a lens, but can't for the life of me get used to it. I can say that my shooting/grouping has improved somewhat but it didn't help me with yardage judging which is where I need the most work to improve my scores. That extra 30 FPS. that I gained in the lighter arrows doesn't make up for a 5 yard misjudge at 40+ yards. :wink:


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