# NASP vs JOAD -



## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

I have a 12 year old and 8 year old both doing very well in the NASP program. I'm looking at getting them going in a JOAD club to help further their archery experince. I'm looking for some advice regarding JOAD. In NASP they are required to shoot the Mathews Genesis bow, which I know they can shoot in the JOAD "Novice" class, but any suggestions for youth upgrading to better equipment? The nearest JOAD club is a good 2 hr drive for us. Also looking for advice on starting a club.


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## outdoorsman3 (Nov 15, 2010)

for a club, pick a town you know there is some bow hunters, even if it is a town over from you, I dont know much about JOAD and NASP, sorry.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Joad will get you exponentially farther in archery than nasp


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## string snapper (Jun 30, 2011)

for upgrading your equipment I would suggest for a $300 dollor range i would suggest diamond razor edge, mathews mission mennace (that will be more similar to the genisis), and hoyt ruckas. for sightsthere are plenty of good $50ish dollor sight. arrow rest mabey a whisker biscuit bot would not suggest hostage rest. Dont really know if you will want a stabilizer but if so i like NAP apache stab. Good luck

Matt


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

I appreciate the info - kept it com'n


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## corpralbarn (Jan 21, 2009)

I do NASP and it will only get your kids the bare essentials. If you want your child to excell at any other form of archery I suggest you go to JOAD. I never joined but I had the drive to learn and get better on my own time and out of my own pocket.


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## TxMom (Feb 23, 2009)

Totally Agree with String Snapper on the bows, my daughter started with a Diamond Edge and a 3 pin hunting site, as for the rest I would look at a fall away rest. The whisker biscuit will wear down quickly with the amount of arrows they will shoot through it. This will hinder their consistency over time.

I would suggest visiting the JOAD group a few times, usually they have stabilizers, etc that they can try without having to make that purchase. You can also gain valuable information as to starting your own JOAD group....usually!~ Starting your own group is not hard.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

what joad does that nasp does not is it provides coaching, on an individual and group level that way surpasses any nasp programs. the joad coaches i have worked with are amazing and pickin out the little tiny form flaws that are the diff between a 20x and a 27x


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Some advice based upon personal experience.

From the club side first.

Background - I assisted in the first documented creation of a JOAD club from NASP roots. In other words, a NASP school also saw the limitations, and based upon parental, school, school governing board, and student support, a JOAD club was formed.

Here's the steps.

1) Become at least a Level 1 instructor. Just like the NASP program requiring at least two instructors that have taken the NASP instructor course, at least one parent or current NASP instructor needs to become a Level 1 or Level 2 instructor.

I don't know what neck of the woods you hail from, but if you check out this forum, you will see classes for Level 1 and Level 2 instructor trainings posted.
http://worldarcheryforum.com/YaBB.pl?board=general

Level 1 classes are generally 50 dollars per person, and Level 2 classes are generally 150.

I highly recommend getting the Level 2 instructor course. It puts you in much better stead short term. 

2) Once you get the Level 1 or Level 2 class out of the way, you then create a JOAD club. Documentation can be found directly off of USA Archery's web site. 
http://usarchery.org/programs/joad-youth-archery
http://usarchery.org/programs/joad-youth-archery/joad-resources

It's recommended that if the NASP program is not a part of the school, you should create a 501(c)3 non profit group.

If you are able to convince your local NASP school in doing a JOAD program, there's usually no need to create a separate 501(c)3 non profit group.

3) Once you create the JOAD program, turn in the paperwork, and have instructors, the next part is getting grants to get equipment. Generally, you theoretically can "share" the bows, arrows, and other equipment as starter equipment for the JOAD program, but it is advisable to get separate equipment in case the local NASP people are unhappy with the shared allocation of their equipment.

To get grants, fill out the forms found here from the Easton Sports Development Foundation. http://www.esdf.org/

The local NASP school got 5K in transition funds from ESDF to help fund the JOAD club and their equipment.

4) Grow the program. The school I use as an example now (thanks to the dual role they play in archery) is now the second biggest JOAD club in the State of Arizona.

This will help you with the JOAD side of things.

Now, onto bows.

There are a lot of good youth bows out there from PSE, Diamond/Bowtech, Hoyt, Mission, and others. I highly recommend taking both kids to a good pro shop and getting them checked out for proper draw length. That one measurement will be key to finding a good bow that will work for them. It's worth the drive. I can personally recommend the Diamond Razor's Edge as a versatile, all around decent bow.

Be aware that even with a good youth bow, their growth can and will get to the point where they will outgrow the bow, not in draw length or draw weight, but in sheer capability of the bow itself. In the 4 years that my child has been in a JOAD program, he has gone through the following bows:

- Fuse Freestyle
- Diamond Edge
- Diamond Razor Edge
- PSE Chaos (x2)
- Hoyt Ruckus
- Hoyt UltraTec (x2, custom one off bows with shorter limbs/cams)

So, don't fall for the "one size fits all" thing. As their abilities grow, so will their need for higher level equipment. 

Using JOAD pin scoring (indoor) as a general guideline, once a child hits their yellow pin, they have reached a point where equipment upgrades, proper training, and shooting a bunch are going to be key for them to attain their Olympian level status.

Which leads me to coaching and future growth of your club.

Level 1 and Level 2 instructors are great for doing club level, group things. Level 3 or higher coaches are where the one on one training begins and where you see the biggest level of growth for your students and your program.

To become a Level 3 coach, you need to have been a Level 2 instructor for a while, and then take a Level 3 Coaching course. The Level 3 coaching course generally costs $250. Travel may be involved to get to a class. It's three full days of instruction.

This is where the root of moving your JOAD kids to the next level really takes place. A good coach will observe, fix form flaws, tweak, and tune not only the archer, but tune the equipment as well. 

A really good JOAD program should have (after it gets it's foundation set) at least one Level 3 coach within 2-3 years. In addition, one of the instructors or coaches should also become a Judge so you know the rules and are kept notified of rule changes as time goes on.

To give an example of how a JOAD program can grow - The largest JOAD club in Arizona has 3 coaches (one Level 4, two Level 3), five Level 2 instructors, and one Level 1. That club services an average of 75 kids on the group JOAD day (Saturday), and the three coaches plus four instructors have one-on-one students during the week. Total amount of kids that participate in the club in some way, shape, or form is around 100. This is in 6 years of growth.

So, if your club puts out a quality product, you will have people coming to you.

If you have any questions, feel free to kick me an email offline. syarchery at gmail dot com.

-Steve


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

in joad you dont have to shoot a genesis, you can shoot your normal compound bow and they do indoor, and field archery from what I've been told, definitely would expand their archery experience more than nasp in my opinion since then they can do different kinda of archery competitions.


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

JOAD is a joke.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

super* said:


> JOAD is a joke.


Care to explain why? Just curious.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

thanks for posting in here steve, great to see some coaches spreading the correct info.

Its been years since i have shot joad, but when i'm down at grivs i shoot with some of the joad kids, he's got some good shooters.


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

I appreciate the info - I am a NASP BAI which is about the same as a level 1 JOAD - I'll keep tabs on when their is a coach training session in our area. We are fortunate to have an extremely experinced USAA / JOAD coach here in MN. and and or twice during the NASP season will have her come down and work with us. I have been in contact with her as well regarding joining their JOAD club ( about a 2 1/2hr drive one way ) or starting our own.

Thanks again !


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

N7709K said:


> thanks for posting in here steve, great to see some coaches spreading the correct info.
> 
> Its been years since i have shot joad, but when i'm down at grivs i shoot with some of the joad kids, he's got some good shooters.


You're welcome! I had the honor of judging some of Ginger and GRIV's students at the 2011 EJN. I also had fun teaching the first time Bowmen and Cubs how to do team rounds. That was extremely fun!

-Steve


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

tank, what part of mn are you in?

guessing your talking about linda beck?

Great groups of kids they have isn't it? really funny right along with the coaches! Hows your joad group coming?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

tank0020 said:


> I appreciate the info - I am a NASP BAI which is about the same as a level 1 JOAD - I'll keep tabs on when their is a coach training session in our area. We are fortunate to have an extremely experinced USAA / JOAD coach here in MN. and and or twice during the NASP season will have her come down and work with us. I have been in contact with her as well regarding joining their JOAD club ( about a 2 1/2hr drive one way ) or starting our own.
> 
> Thanks again !


No problem! If it's Coach Linda Beck out of Granite City, she's a good one to be with!

Anyhow, there are theoretically two options if it's Linda (or any other coach in MN).

1) Have Linda or the other coach do your Level 2 class. As a Level 3 or higher coach, they are able to teach it.

2) See if your NASP club can be an extension of that JOAD program. This way, it's partnered.

Just some more thoughts for growth...

-Steve


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

Thanks again for getting back. I'm from Lonsdale, MN, about 40 miles South of Minneapolis. Yes, its Linda that we work with. So far we have only talked about putting a JOAD club together. I speak for myself but can guess that the other NASP coaches have a busy schedule and don't want to commit to running another program. We currently coach 116 in the NASP group from 1st grade to 12th grade. Both my boys took State Champion last year, and my oldest just missed the podium at Nats. That's why I would like to get them into a more disiplined program. They are both good archers - but there is always room for improvement.

I'll speak with our head coach - about partnering with JOAD. 

--- and zero niner kilo, good to see another fellow aviator! D&%* these hobbies are expensive!


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

haha nice, been a while since i heard that outta ak. i just wrench on them for now, in the summers.. don't fly em, yet, pop's does tho.

do your bows shoot outside of school? maa/msaa?


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

Just joined on with MAA - was a member of MSAA last year and only made a couple non competivite 3D shoots. Tournament schedule for MAA works better for us and looks to offer a little more


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Are you making the 18m or the 25m at all?


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## underdog145 (Dec 6, 2009)

The only issue with JOAD for me is the fact that there are no clubs within nearly 100 miles from me. Other than that, I would say that it is one of the best things you can do to help get your children going and give them good habits when it comes to form and practicing habits. I know that I may have been able to get to where i am now if i had the opportunity to shoot with a JOAD club of some sort.


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## corpralbarn (Jan 21, 2009)

n7709k said:


> thanks for posting in here steve, great to see some coaches spreading the correct info.


x2!


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

Haven't made any yet - but the boys will shoot both 18 and 25 m. this year will be a bit of a learning curve and get their feet in the door.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

so they will be there saturday? what time?


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

Tomorrow they shoot a NASP tourny, their first MAA shoot will be mid March unless I find one a littlte closer that won't conflict with NASP


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

ah ok.. march is the state nfaa?

if they are going to be serious about continuing archery above and beyond nasp/joad they may need to miss some smaller nasp shoots(legs of the grand prix, invites, etc) to make state shoots


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

Yea I realize that, however there is only 4 NASP tourny's then Regions, State, and Nats. If they miss one of the 4 smaller tournys they won't qualify for the other three. And our school is hosting the regional event this year. JOAD has recently begun a online program ( I Know its not the same as actually belonging to a club ) where they can shoot, 2 coaches will score and then submit it to JOAD. Each quater this is available- so I will get them going on that - they both will shoot 18m on a 60cm target. NASP - as of Feb 1stwill also offer an online program - they are signed up for that as well. Doing some research on getting my level 2. I was planning on having them shoot with Linda Becks group at the state nfaa - Linda would "babysit" them through the process, but we have a conflict with other school activites.... never fails


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

When did nasp go to having to shoot the 4 smaller ones to qualify?


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

I see you're a archer for Truball, once my boys get into "real" bows does TruBall have youth releases? Any deals? What would you recommend? - my oldest is a lefty ( does everything else rh'ed but has to shoot left )


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

As a coach I should know this - I don't believe the 4 Grand Prix trouny rule is a NASP rule - I believe it's a rule that our head coach set about 4 years ago as a bench mark so that the middle and high schoolers could letter in the sport. Thinking about it - I will ask at our next practice. Also they are doing very well in NASP I want to see them progress but I also want to see them on the podium, tough call as a parent and coach.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

As a former nasp shooter who has made the medals several times, archery after nasp and outside of nasp is more enjoyable.

As far as releases, that depends on what kind of release they choose to shoot. You can get thumb triggers and backtension in sizes to fit them along with some strap releases. Again it all comes down to how serious they are and how far they want to take archery


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## HoytShooter30X (Nov 13, 2011)

I am a top-notch shooter in Colorado as far as JOAD, and if you need anything i could probably guide you in the right direction. if not my dad is a coach and could help as well. Inbox me with any questions =)


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## tank0020 (Dec 21, 2011)

Thanks - Looking into putting together a JOAD club - biggest obstacle is where ( or do we try to incorparate it with our NASP program )


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> Care to explain why? Just curious.


Well i shoot at the national level and i showed up for my first joad shoot and it was an indoor shoot. I had a rough round and still walked all over everyone. I dont know if it was just me expecting more competition or if its not for someone like me.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

super* said:


> Well i shoot at the national level and i showed up for my first joad shoot and it was an indoor shoot. I had a rough round and still walked all over everyone. I dont know if it was just me expecting more competition or if its not for someone like me.


Depending on the nature of the shoot, you will find kids of all ages and skill levels.

I know that in the recent Arizona State Indoor Championships (all inner 10), you would find people capable of shooting in the low to mid 280's.

In the upcoming Arizona State JOAD championships, there are kids capable of shooting in the 290's (outer 10).

And, at some of the club based Arizona JOAD shoots, you will see kids ranging in all skill sets.

So, it all depends on the locale. 

-Steve


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

in diff parts of the country you will find diff levels of skill, i know griv has joad shooters younger that kyle and i who average 290-292


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