# serving & twist direction & tension



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Always twist and serve in the same clockwise direction. I use about 3-4 pounds tension on my serving jig.


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

thanks


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

I am no expert but have made some observations that may be relevant and possibly of some use to you. One observation is that the serving, on Octane strings, is put on in the opposite direction (rotation) of the bundle twist. That bundle twist is put on with a clockwise twist that produses a left helix on the string. Maybe it's just me but I used to get so confused trying to understand people describing string twist/serving rotation direction. The fix, for me, was to think in terms of right or left helix which is identical to looking at it as a right or left hand thread on a bolt. From there it's easy to see the four possibilities.

Right helical string/right helical serving
Right helical string/left helical serving
Left helical string/right helical serving
Left helical string/left helical serving

Not sure and have no scientific evidence to back this statement but I believe that, if you serve a high end string/serving material under the proper tension, the direction don't mean much. With all the possible variables, I look at proper tension as an art form that will get better the more you work at it. At this time I use 300# on 24 strands of Trophy with standard .014" serving (ends) at 3-4 lbs but when I have to clear up white halo the serving tension goes up to 8-9 lbs and the string to 350+.


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## Dthbyhoyt (Dec 4, 2004)

I always serve the same direction as the twist ...


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## stinky1 (Feb 20, 2003)

post #42 is the best explanation that I've seen. i use this method with the limited number of strings i've built and seems to work for me.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1356672&p=1059424327#post1059424327


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## petrey10 (Oct 24, 2008)

^ exactly!! You want to serve in the direction that would increase the twist in the string....


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Vortex69 said:


> Not sure and have no scientific evidence to back this statement but I believe that, if you serve a high end string/serving material under the proper tension, the direction don't mean much. but when I have to clear up white halo the serving tension goes up to 8-9 lbs and the string to 350+.


I have to chime in on this. I have personal experience that this is just not true.

I found out the hard way that if you do not serve in the same direction as the twist you will have trouble. The thing that happens if you serve opposite the direction of the twists you will "untwist" the twists No matter how "high end " the string or serving is. 

TRUST ME!!!!!

Vortex... If you will deliberately serve white Halo in the opposite direction as your twists ,tight enough to "clear "it up you WILL loose twists in the string.
View attachment 1185577
this pic shows what I am talking about.

This pic shows the same thing EXCEPT the serving was applied in the SAME direction as the twists.
View attachment 1185579


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

TN ARCHER said:


> I have to chime in on this. I have personal experience that this is just not true.
> 
> I found out the hard way that if you do not serve in the same direction as the twist you will have trouble. The thing that happens if you serve opposite the direction of the twists you will "untwist" the twists No matter how "high end " the string or serving is.
> 
> ...


TN your exactly correct, ive done the same as you in past when i started cause i was confused also, and it came untwisted under serving, your spot on and you need to twist same direction as serving!


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Like I said in post #4..."I'm no expert....have no scientific evidence". My statement and opinions are simply the result of my limited experience and real world observations. Untill I made my first string, like you (TN) and the vast majority, I believed that the serving twist should follow the string twist. After disecting an octane string last year I decided to check out the rest of my Bowtech (4) bows only to find that they also had string and serving twists in the opposite direction. I also have 3 sets of purchased customs that I checked. Two sets (purchased from a popular maker here) had the serving going in the same direction while the third did not. Last but not least, I was given a "Barracuda with twist lock serving technology" string that I just took out of the package (for my Monster) and the directions were opposite. Now I'm not saying that this is the way to go for the home builder but am saying that some main manufacturers are doing it this way and is the methoud I currently choose to use.

Hey TN, do you recall how many twists it took to haze up that serving and, were there any shots on that string?


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Yes sir your are correct

Thast some nice looking clear HALO



TN ARCHER said:


> I have to chime in on this. I have personal experience that this is just not true.
> 
> I found out the hard way that if you do not serve in the same direction as the twist you will have trouble. The thing that happens if you serve opposite the direction of the twists you will "untwist" the twists No matter how "high end " the string or serving is.
> 
> ...


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

Vortex it is all in the way that you look at it and what method you use for your end servings. If you are serving your end servings towards the loop then yes your serving has to be opposite to the twist. If however you start your end servings at the loop then it has to go on with the twist. If you do it opposite for these methods you will lose twists so I would think that maybe the octane strings you have dissected were actually served towards the loops. A simple experiment will show you all you need to know and when you pull your string off the posts if the ends are limp then you are good to go...if they want to coil up like a snake then you went the wrong way.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

At first I thought I may have made a mistake by jumping in on this issue with only an observation and an opinion but, it has actually turned out pretty good seeing it made me look a little bit deeper. Crunched some numbers on a hypethetical string but could not come to any significant conclusion. As a last resort, got out some rope to simulate the string and para for the serving........

Turns out that both methouds have their plusses/minusses. I'll let you be the judge.

A string/serving in the same direction will *loosen* the serving as the string is untwisted.
A string/serving in the opposite direction will *tighten* the serving as the string is untwisted.
A string that is untwisted will get longer which will further tighten the bond between the string and serving on the opposit direction string/serving but will increase the gap between the serving on the same direction string /serving.

The opposite is true for a string that is being twisted up but may be slightly less due to the fact that the rate that the string shortens slows down.

For me, the bottom line is that they will both work but I'm gonna stick with my current methoud untill someone can put down some really good stuff.

By the way TN, nice Halo ;-)


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Vortex69 said:


> A string/serving in the same direction will *loosen* the serving as the string is untwisted.
> A string/serving in the opposite direction will *tighten* the serving as the string is untwisted.
> ;-)


your thinking this backwards, as string twisted clockwise and then served same direction is NOT gonna loosen the string, your thinking this as the serving is going along with each strand of the string. the pic TN posted with the string untwisted under the serving is where the serving was applied OPPOSITE the direction the string was twisted. serving will not lay right on top of the strands and go like a barber pole and lay on each color, it will go across it BUT its viewed from the end of string. theres other good illustrations on this.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

dwagoner said:


> *your thinking this backwards*, as string twisted clockwise and then served same direction is NOT gonna *loosen the string*,.....


On a good day it's sideways ;-)

Not sure if it's my presentation or your interpretation of it but I hope that anyone sorting thru my thoughts does so with the understanding that the string does not loosen but rather lengthens/shortens with any twisting activity (sorry for any confusion). A 50" string with 32 twists will have almost the identical tension on it if 16 twists were removed even though it would be 1/4" longer.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Vortex69 said:


> Hey TN, do you recall how many twists it took to haze up that serving and, were there any shots on that string?


I'm not sure what you mean by "haze up" . ?? I believe most of it is poor pic quality and lighting, that's why there is a white back ground on the second pic. 

That first pic was NO shots!! The twists started coming "unwound" as the tension was relieved on the stretcher. 

The second pic was NO shot either!! 

I realized once I started using the white Halo that I was serving incorrectly. I never knew before because the colored serving doesn't allow you to see through it . I had issues with strings that would mysteriously grow if i let them hang around for several days before using them. Serving in the wrong direction caused the twists to "unwind" and thus the string lengthened. The long single cam strings were the worst, more sering = more twists that would "unwind".


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> Yes sir your are correct
> 
> Thast some nice looking clear HALO


Thanks TOM!!

I know an ole boy who is good to help a fella out from time to time..:wink:


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

TN ARCHER said:


> ..... I was serving incorrectly. I never knew before because the colored serving doesn't allow you to see through it ....


What exactly did you see under that clear serving?


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

He would have seen a string that had lost most if not all twists. Just like the string in the pic above.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

jaredc said:


> He would have seen a string that had lost most *if not all* twists..


That there is an obvious exageration but yet it does hold a tiny bit of truth. Serving in the opposite direction will act in a way that will *try* to unwind a string that is properly tensioned. If you are loosing "most if not all twists" you need to put the string under more tension. Octane strings have there clear serving put on in the reverse direction while the string is at 500# tension. Personally, I can't duplicate their exact process for a number of reasons but do just fine trying to copy that process. I hope no one is under the impresion that I am trying to convert them from a method that they are happy with. I am simply responding to the OP's request, which was:

_"Hi all when you make your strings do you twist say anticlockwise & then do end serving anticlock wise? & what tension do you use? *thanks* this is for 452x "_

your welcome ;-)


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

Hey Vortex69 I am not trying to argue with you but I serve under 450 pounds of tension on my apple and if you serve opposite to the twist even at high tension the result would be a string that would untwist and coil up like a snake. I am sure that you have seen the bowtech video but if you watch this video and pay attention starting at 1:57 you will notice that the twist on the string is clockwise and the person serving the string is applying the serving clockwise as well.


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euB6CcuCeY0

Sorry..forgot the link


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

Hi thanks all I built the string no peep movment so I am happy


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

jaredc, thanks for that vid. The one I saw was a mini factory tour that said the strings were done at 500 but this vid is much better.

Even though short, I found the following segments quite usefull:
Start of end serving :27/:28 and 2:06/2:09
Finish end serving 2:15/2:17

If you look closely you will see the the direction the serving is being laid down is forming a right helix around the bundle. Prior to this, the string was twisted in a clockwise direction which prodeced a left helix on the strands strands. Bottom line is that the string fibers are going one direction while the serving direction is going the other.

Just took off some old strings on my Specialist. If I can get some decent close up pics, I will post them for they clearly show that the string bundle is rotating in the opposite direction that the serving is.

By the way, argument...LOL...not even close.


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

Vortex69 said:


> jaredc, thanks for that vid. The one I saw was a mini factory tour that said the strings were done at 500 but this vid is much better.
> 
> Even though short, I found the following segments quite usefull:
> Start of end serving :27/:28 and 2:06/2:09
> ...


The bottom line is if you serve in the opposite direction of twist...all of the twist in the string will come out once relaxed...been their done that. The pic that TN Archer posted is not over exagerated. Do a little test...lay up a short string...twist it then start your serving at the loop.....serving in the same direction that you twisted. Then lay up another small string twist just like you done on the first one and then serve in the compleate opposite direction you twisted.....make sure to start at the same end loop on both of them. Use white Halo so you can see what happens...put it on tight too. This will show you what happens.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

V69

Thse guys are right...If you do not serve in the tightening dirction you will lose twists under the serving and the string will unwind like one of those snakes you ligt off on the fourth of july...

Here is a set I made last night...there is no way that the twsit rate under the serving would remain the sam as out of the serving if I did not serve in the tightening direction...

Im going to make a video and show what happens here shortly when the string is served the wrong way

By the way EPLC illiustration is spot on....

Tom


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Bow pro said:


> .... Do a little test...lay up a short string...twist it then start your serving at the loop.....


Maybe something is being lost in the communication so let me do this one more time and feel free to correct me if you see something.

Rotating the crank on the jig in a clockwise direction will produce a left twist (left helix) on the string.
As viewed from the end, a clockwise rotation of the serving jig moving away from you will produce a right helix.
As viewed from the end, a counter clockwise rotation of the serving jig moving away from you will produce a left helix.

Everone agree? If not, please explain.

Of the following pictures, the first is the method I use and is an exact copy of the Octane string/serving direction and the second is the opposite. If you like I will cut the end serving on one of my Octanes then slide the serving down the string so that the string/serving rotation is clearly visable. Don't know if there is much to be learned from these pics but it is clear to see (at least to me under normal lighting) that the bundles are not distorted with either method.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

If the one on the left is serving away from the loop, I would say thats NOT the way I would serve it....that is a clock wise twist , if your crank (Twister) is on the right...but the serving dierction looks like you would untwist the string...the one on the right is the way I do it. if the twister is on the right

There are several makers that twist the string in a counter clockwise method...just the way they loike to do it...dont mean they serve in a looening rotation...

So your strings dont unwind doing it like whats in the left pic???




Vortex69 said:


> Maybe something is being lost in the communication so let me do this one more time and feel free to correct me if you see something.
> 
> Rotating the crank on the jig in a clockwise direction will produce a left twist (left helix) on the string.
> As viewed from the end, a clockwise rotation of the serving jig moving away from you will produce a right helix.
> ...


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

The one in the bottom pic would work if he was serving towards the loop. I bet if he does his back wrap in the bottom pic and took the tension off it would coil up like a pissed off rattle snake.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Bow pro said:


> So your strings dont unwind doing it like whats in the left pic???


Sorry, the pic orientation is top to bottom for me so I can't answer that. The top pic for me is the lighter exposure one.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Bow pro said:


> .... I bet if he does his back wrap in the bottom pic and took the tension off it would coil up like a pissed off rattle snake.


You mean like this:


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

The stuf on the left was purchased from a vendor on here. The string on the right was one I just built. Sorry bout the pic quality.


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

Can you post a pic of your end servings?


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Robert43 said:


> Hi thanks all I built the string no peep movment so I am happy


Sorry bout the hijack but it looks like you have every thing under control, as per post 23, so I hope your not upset that I kept your thing going.

Anyways, back to the hijack:

Still looking for any comments on these three simple statements and conclusion:

1) Rotating the crank on the jig in a clockwise direction will produce a left twist (left helix) on the string.
2) As viewed from the end, a clockwise rotation of the serving jig moving away from you will produce a right helix.
3)As viewed from the end, a counter clockwise rotation of the serving jig moving away from you will produce a left helix.

Conclusion:

If you combine #1 with #2, the rotation of the string strands will be in the opposite direction of rotation to the serving rotation.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

In the video link that was posted the machine that Octane used to put the twists in the string was turning to the right.

The left end was twisted in a rotation toward the the viewer/ camera. 

If you were standing at the left end of that machine looking down the string to the other end as it was twisted it would have right hand twists. 

When the person started the end serving they were on the right end of the string ,they served over and away from them self which if you looked down the string again from that end would be right hand serving

Right hand twists and right hand serving is what I saw.

So your first picture is serving opposite the twists direction but this is not what the video showed.

I am also not following you on this right twist = left helix observation.

If I twist a string right handed the twists start in the center and work their way to the ends. No matter how you look at it r from which end the string has right hand twists. The same holds true if you twist one left handed


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

I am with TN Archer on this one. I viewed the footage exactly as he did. If you pause your computer around the 1:57 mark and grab an old string I think you will see what I mean. Take all the twists out of the string and turn it clockwise and counter clockwise and you will see that clockwise is the direction you will have to go to make your string look like the one in the video. Like TN said the jig is flipped over the string during the serving and away from the person which is also clockwise.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Hey, you guys are great for hanging in there with me but I'm still looking for some comments directly related to post #34. Still lookin for someone who will discuss the geometric relationship between the string and serving (that stuff is rock solid and cannot be skewed). Bet if I broke the hook off a candy cane and handed it to a friend that they will quickly come up with a correct direction of it's twists. Bet if I asked which way the candy maker twisted it to end up with that result that there may be some confusion. This same principle applies to string making when people talk about "right twist" " left twist". If those terms are not used carefully, some people could become confused.

By the way...if you read past the second post, there is a 50/50 chance that you have waisted your time. Due to the coriolus effect ( pay attention OP living in the southern hemisphere) the clockwise rule is reversed


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

yeah the barber pole effect on the 2 colors is deceiving on which direction the string is actually twisted, its all in how you rotate the string from the end view and not how the colors wrap around the barber pole. but its been asked and several different illustrations posted before.


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## Purka (Sep 8, 2004)

Think of the TWISTED STRING as a BOLT and SERVING as a NUT.. this is serving the same directing as the twist.


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## bowtecee (Nov 3, 2003)

EPLC said:


> Always twist and serve in the same clockwise direction. I use about 3-4 pounds tension on my serving jig.


I serve in this manner.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Purka said:


> Think of the TWISTED STRING as a BOLT and SERVING as a NUT.. this is serving the same directing as the twist.


That is an absolute truth when looking at the physical motions used to produce a string but not it's physical properties that exist as a result of those motions. To use your nut and bolt analogy, rotating (pysical motion) the string in the direction of a right hand bolt as if to tighten it, will in fact produce a left hand bolt (physical property-left helix). In reality, the twist you put in the string is differant than the twist in the string.

In a sence, Octane strings (and others) are cross threaded.


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

I don't agree in regards to Octane strings being cross threaded based on what I see in the video. I do however encourage Octane to keep producing strings as they are because I live in Bowtech country and it is good for business lol.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

These pics are of an Octane string that was just removed from a Specialist. I can only hope you will take a moment to* try* and comprehend what you are really seeing. To me the string bundle clearly forms a left helix while the serving is in the opposite direction and forming a right helix. If the pics don't work maybe this link will:

http://dyslexia-test.com/


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Hey...the link was a joke.

Hope nobody took that serious.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Is that a bss cable and the yokes are on the left


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

The pics are of the bottom end serving of the string. The left side of that serving is it's closest point to the center serving and was broke, unwound, and a few revolutions of serving removed so it could be streached out to illustrate it's direction. Not sure what direction the serving goes at the yoke termination point but will be glad to check for anyone interested....well that is if I ever get that far....having a hard time getting those hard string suppressors over the shrunk wrapped brass nock points.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

WHy does that string look unwound above the serving, twist are out of it


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

If you would step back and look at it you will see that it would take twisting to the right to tighten the twist....and clearly the serving was started at the loop and finished towards the CS.....so the serving is going over top of the bundle and going away from you. It is served in the same direction of the twist. Try this....cut the serving right in the loop and start unwraping the serving. The serving was put on in the direction of the twist. Again.....cut the serving right where it starts at the loop and unwrap.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> WHy does that string look unwound above the serving, twist are out of it


If you are refering to the area directly to the right of the separation, it is hazed up clear serving and one of the reasons the set is being changed out. As far as unwound...may be some from it getting tossed around but not much and certainly not enough to skew the information that photo portays.


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## Eric131 (Oct 24, 2008)

This thread is pretty long for discussing serving twisting direction. For any confused on the matter still, here is an easy way to look at it. Imagine ringing out a wet towel. One hand turns away from you as the other turns in towards you. Serve the string so that you are going away on one end making the twisted towel effect tighter and on the other end serve towards you in the same fashion as to tighten the twist. Hope this helps visualize it better for some.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Bow pro said:


> .... It is served in the same direction of the twist.....


Well, yes and no. The serving's rotation is of the same direction the string had to be rotated to produce it's twists but is in the opposite direction of the string itself. The string is a left helix while the serving is right helix.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> Is that a bss cable and the yokes are on the left



Here's the yoke termination point serving. Done the same as the string. String is left helix and the serving right helix.


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## straddleridge (Apr 28, 2010)

This thread has caused me to experiment.

I'm kind of new at string making. Only have made about a dozen sets. Apparently I have been very carefully serving them in the wrong direction. Most of the strings have been reasonably good. 

I took all of the servings off the last string I made and untwisted it. I then retwisted the string clockwise from the end. The bundle is then counter-clockwise. From the end of the string I served the string with the bieter winder rotating clockwise so the serving went opposite the twist of the bundle.

I had a peep seperator/indicator in the string. When I removed the 350# tension from the string the indicator didn't even budge. I put the string on my bow, installed a dloop and peep. The peep does not move as the bow is fully drawn. Right or wrong this is the way I will be making my strings from now on unless something bad happens to change my mind.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

Just curious Straddleridge, when you first started building strings, how did you determine wich way to twist? Was it the result of some confusion by way of someones description or just something you did on your own?


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## straddleridge (Apr 28, 2010)

Actually, I thought this was the way most people on this forum described the way to serve the strings. As a result of this thread I have spent a lot of time over the last couple of days trying to determine which is the right way.

I have GRIV's DVD and he is serving opposite the twist of the bundle. I also have deezlin's DVD but haven't checked it yet. 

I use 452x with 20 strands (60# bow) with .014 end servings and .021 center serving. I set my bieter at 5-51/2 # for the end serving and 6-7 # for the center serving. My last string is the first one I used halo (not white) for the end servings - I had been using 3d but have had problems with serving separation on my cable ends.


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## straddleridge (Apr 28, 2010)

In deezlin's DVD I looked at the end serving chapter and he is also serving opposite the bundle twist direction. He twists clockwise from the end and his winder is rotating clockwise from the end. If you prefer from the end the bundle is a left helix and the serving is a right helix.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

straddleridge said:


> .... If you prefer from the end the bundle is a left helix and the serving is a right helix.


Thats the beauty of describing the process in that manner. It don't matter which end you are looking from. It don't matter if your lying down or standing on your head or change the direction of the bundle twist every other day, once you understand the concept it is almost impossible to get confused.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Vortex69 said:


> Done the same as the string. String is left helix and the serving right helix.


WIth regards to that pic you posted of red/black string.....

NO NO and NOOOOO this is a clockwise twist and clockwise serving, STOP looking at the barber pole effect the 2 colors make when twisted! it does not represent the direction the string is twisted, you need to take a string and twist it clockwise and look how it makes the 2 colors, THIS IS CORRECT!!!!!


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Vortex69 said:


> once you understand the concept it is almost impossible to get confused.


SO why are you not understanding this?


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

straddleridge said:


> In deezlin's DVD I looked at the end serving chapter and he is also serving opposite the bundle twist direction. He twists clockwise from the end and his winder is rotating clockwise from the end. If you prefer from the end the bundle is a left helix and the serving is a right helix.


 No you are wrong and I have his videos. His serving is put on the same direction as the string twists


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

dwagoner said:


> SO why are you not understanding this?


 I agree with you Dennis, I looked at the pics he posted and it looks to me like the serving is going in the same direction as the string twist.


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

dwagoner said:


> WIth regards to that pic you posted of red/black string.....
> 
> NO NO and NOOOOO this is a clockwise twist and clockwise serving, STOP looking at the barber pole effect the 2 colors make when twisted! it does not represent the direction the string is twisted, you need to take a string and twist it clockwise and look how it makes the 2 colors, THIS IS CORRECT!!!!!


^^^^ Listen to this guy....he has it right!


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## straddleridge (Apr 28, 2010)

In deezlins DVD he cranks his handle clockwise from the end to twist the string. This causes the bundle to have the twists go counter clockwise (left helix) as viewed from the end. When he uses his server he rotates it clockwise as viewed from the end. This causes the serving to be clockwise (right helix) as viewed from the end.


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## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

dwagoner said:


> WIth regards to that pic you posted of red/black string.....
> 
> NO NO and NOOOOO this is a clockwise twist and clockwise serving, STOP looking at the barber pole effect the 2 colors make when twisted! it does not represent the direction the string is twisted, you need to take a string and twist it clockwise and look how it makes the 2 colors, THIS IS CORRECT!!!!!


This is correct and a great explanation for even the most challenged string builders. It's hard to believe there are this many threads on here about twist and serve techniques and it's still hard for many to grasp.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

V 69 

Serve in the direction you think is the right way.let us know how that works out for you. 

Every one of these guys that answered you is a very experience builder....they are correct

Sent from my DROIDX


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## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

just take that cable untwist it look at what direction you have to untwist it.I promise you you will untwist it counter clockwise.


Vortex69 said:


> Here's the yoke termination point serving. Done the same as the string. String is left helix and the serving right helix.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> ...Every one of these guys that answered you is a very experience builder....they are correct...


I believe that statement is true and would be willing to put money on it. I would also be willing to bet that not one of them has a clue as to what I have been saying or this way of describing the process would not have kept this thread going for so long. 

A) Why is it so hard to understand that a string *that is twisted* in a clockwise direction *produces* a string with a twist that is *counter clockwise?* 

Do not move on to "B" unless you understand "A".

B) If that same string's serving is put on in a manner that produces a right helix (clockwise moving away from you) the end result will be that the string's strands will have the opposite rotation than that of the serving. 

I would luv to see pictures of other string makers work. Would be willing to bet that they are done in the same manner as described above. As far as my strings...they resemble the the last three pics that I posted.


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

omen said:


> just take that cable untwist it look at what direction you have to untwist it.I promise you you will untwist it counter clockwise.


That is absolutely TRUE!!!!

Continuing that CC rotation will reduce the amount of left helix untill the strings strands will have no twists. Continuing from that point will produce a right helix in the string.


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## straddleridge (Apr 28, 2010)

Hey - I finally got it. Everybody is correct. It is so simple that it is difficult. If you twist from one end clockwise, then you serve from that end clockwise. 

If you twist clockwise from one end you will create a left helix and serve against it. When I made my strings I thought you were supposed to serve with the helix and that was my mistake.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

straddleridge said:


> Hey - I finally got it. Everybody is correct. It is so simple that it is difficult. If you twist from one end clockwise, then you serve from that end clockwise.
> 
> If you twist clockwise from one end you will create a left helix and serve against it. When I made my strings I thought you were supposed to serve with the helix and that was my mistake.


Glad you see what we ALL have been trying to get across.

The twist give the illusion that the string was twisted in a left hand direction when in fact it was twisted in a right hand direction. Just like the barber pole effect that dwagnor was referring to.

Just serve in the same direction that you twisted and life will be good .

Now maybe this topic can be laid to rest.....


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## Vortex69 (Jul 8, 2007)

TN ARCHER said:


> ...Just serve in the same direction that you twisted and life will be good ...


That is half true. 

If you serve in the same direction _You were twisting the string_ while serving away from yourself, you will be fine.

If you serve in the same direction _You were twisting the string_ while serving twoards yourself, things will be backwards.

Some people serve end to center, some center to end, some mix it up. For a seasond veteran, such as yourself, I'm sure there is never a problem, but for someone just starting out, I can see where it can be easy to get turned around. I'm not trying to change a culture but rather simply trying to offer another way of looking at things that, at least for me, make things almost fool proof.


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## Corn Fed (Apr 14, 2011)

I would put this simply as...the strands and the serving should make and "X" if the serving was left very loose and the string had a small amount of twists in it.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

*Some Thoughts*



straddleridge said:


> In deezlins DVD he cranks his handle clockwise from the end to twist the string. This causes the bundle to have the twists go counter clockwise (left helix) as viewed from the end. When he uses his server he rotates it clockwise as viewed from the end. This causes the serving to be clockwise (right helix) as viewed from the end.


Yes, this is the way I serve my strings. I use a clockwise twist on the string bundle, because it it more natural to shorten the string by twist clockwise than counterclockwise. I serve in the same direction as I twist the crank simple because if I load the string I move twisting out from under the serving.
I have tried different ways and I have came to one conclusion. Either way will work if you don't over tighten your serving tool and neither way will work if you overtighten your serving tool. I finally got the message a long time ago. Take a rubber band and twist it up and place each end over your thumb and little finger, now with it tight take your index finger on the other hand and roll the rubber band in the middle. As you roll the rubber band you will notice one side twisting up and the other side untwisting.
Your serving tool will do the same thing when you are serving the string. If you get it too tight, then it will start moving twists from one side of the tool to the other. If you have the string material tensioned, this will help miminze the effect, but with enough tension in the serving tool loading of the string will happen. This will happen easier in the middle of the string, and gets more pronounced with longer strings, as you are serving you need to hold the string in front of the serving tool, this helps keep the string from being rotated by serving tool.
Here is another thought. I know there are not too many finger shooter left, but I shoot with fingers quite a lot. Now, I always put my center serving on in the direction that will tighten it as I roll the string off my fingers. Why? Well, it will tend to loosen the center serving if I don't. Now, what would happens if you took a pair of pliers and twisted the center serving one way, and then the other way? One way would tend to tighten the serving and the other way would tend to loosen it. I know, we don't use pliers on center serving, but doesn't that D loop give some of the same effect? What about rolling center serving on a cross bow string? What happens to the center serving on the rails?


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