# First Dakota Classic



## scmelik

I was looking at the NFAA website and they had on there the First Dakota Classic down in Yankton along with the World Bowhunter Championship, and the NFAA national 3-D. I couldn't find any description for any of the events though, can someone help me out?

What is the First Dakota Classic?


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## USCG Barebow

*Dakota Classic*

The Dakota Classic is an American 600 round. Shot at 40/50/60 yds at a 120cm target. I am sure if this is incorrect, someone will chime in, but I am fairly sure it is what will be shot.

The biggest thing is this, for th IFAA 3D, the adult distance is 60yds unmarked. Also, no binoculars or spotting scopes are allowed.
Since we are shooting a joint 3D shoot on 13/14th, I am "assuming" that the same rule will apply for the NFAA shoot. I was told that you can shoot both shoots and on the 13/14 the score you shoot counts for both. 
That being said, that would mean that the max for both the IFAA and NFAA would have to be 60 and no binos for either shoot.
Again, I could be wrong, but I am sure that is how it is.


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## heckt

the 40/50/60 will be shot at a 92cm target


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## USCG Barebow

*Dakota Classic*

Ah, if only I had clicked on the right link first. I checked the application instead.

New Round for 2009!! The 92 cm multi color targets will be used to shoot a 60 arrow round each day. The round is 4 ends of 5 arrows at 40-50-60 yards for Adults and Young Adults, 30-40-50 yards for Youth and 10-20-30 yards for Cubs. Total possible score each day is 600.


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## scmelik

thanks. Did I read it right that for the NFAA 3-D shoot and it IFAA 3-D shoot there is no binoculars?


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## USCG Barebow

*#d*

There are no binos allowed for the IFAA. I am not sure how the 2 days we shoot both are going to go. I have sent an email to my NFAA director to check into it. I will post when I get some kind of clarification on that.


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## CHPro

Fairly certain I read the NFAA Unmarked would also follow the IFAA rules this year for this joint venture.

>>------>


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## Lien2

Wow........no bino's will be very interesting........!!! 

Lien2


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## dead eye dick

alen if you dont shoot with a sight what the hell do you need binos for


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## dead eye dick

thats alan not alen or alien, i went to public schools forgive me


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## archer_nm

Yes we are shooting the IFAA rules and richard you did go to public school and so did I. Alan and Richard are either of you going?? I might!!!


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## I BOW 2

Why in the "world" would anyone have a tournament where the objective is to hit a pre-determined aiming point and not use binos to level the "eyesight" playing field?!?!?!?!? If you want to have a "siloeutte" shoot then have one. As long as you can see the target animal you can hit it. Just dumb!!! Ken


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## USCG Barebow

*Yankton*

I am planning on going. I am not real happy about shooting 60yds barebow 3D or not being able to use binos. I guess it is a matter of when in Yankton, do as the Yankers do.
Alan


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## USCG Barebow

*Dakota*

CHPro is correct. I just confirmed with my state director that the NFAA decided in L'Ville to go with IFAA rules for this event. Check the IFAA rules for your class.


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## scmelik

what exactly is the point in not being able to use bino's? You can't use them to judge yardage and they don't really give any one person a competitive advantage.


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## WVDBLLUNG

Under IFAA rules - at each target there will be a board showing the target type, kill zones and what group the target is in which will give you a slight advantage. Group 1 Target is between 40 to 60 yards, Group 2 Target is between 45 and 30 yards, Group 3 Target is between 35 and 20 yards and Group 4 Target is between 20 and 10 yards.

Also if you are shooting in the Bowhunter Freestyle class you will not be allowed to have a level in your sight.


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## CHPro

Sounds like a conglomeration of old IBO rules and NFAA/IFAA animal round rules! 

For those who haven't been around long enough, I'm pretty certain original IBO/3D rules did not allow the use of binos. As is being done with this IFAA tournament, there would be a pic of the critter showing where the scoring zones were located at the shooting position. Up to you then to guess the yardage and try to determine if the critter was leaning or angled relative to the shooting stake. And distances were unmarked up to 60yd, though most clubs liked to stretch that out several beyond that as well, lol!

NFAA/IFAA animal round target groupings by yardage sounds very similar to distances used for the paper target animal round shot on the NFAA field course, except of course these will be 3D and unmarked....kind of like the format for an unmarked FITA field round.

Interesting format.....wonder if there is enough time set during the day so a person can compete in both the Unmarked 3D and the 600 Round each day? Sounds like it could be fun to shoot both, unless it rainy and windy out....then neither sounds like a lot of fun, lol !

>>------->


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## ArcheryNut2006

I have been told one can shoot the 3D and also the 600 round.


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## -BIS-

ArcheryNut2006 said:


> I have been told one can shoot the 3D and also the 600 round.


Sounds fun!!!! Can't wait. :darkbeer::darkbeer:


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## aussiearcher

I BOW 2 said:


> Why in the "world" would anyone have a tournament where the objective is to hit a pre-determined aiming point and not use binos to level the "eyesight" playing field?!?!?!?!? If you want to have a "siloeutte" shoot then have one. As long as you can see the target animal you can hit it. Just dumb!!! Ken


So..your going then I take it Ken


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## HOGDADDY

so... if you want to shoot the WBHC and the NFAA 3D your WBHC final two rounds will be your NFAA 3D score?Whats up with No Binos?What about guys who just shoot the NFAA 3-d ,No binos?IFAA rules?


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## 2fingers

Does the IFAA have a fps or a poundage rule?


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## HOGDADDY

I read 300fps


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## Lien2

WVDBLLUNG said:


> Also if you are shooting in the Bowhunter Freestyle class you will not be allowed to have a level in your sight.


I wonder how many guys currently have a level on there BHFS sight? Probably about 99.99% of them?!  Will they let you put black tape over it?
I'm sorry, but that is a dumb rule. 

Lien2


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## possum trapper

I am only shooting the NFAA 40-50 60 shoot.The 3-d was ok last year but was in a crazy spot.Who doesnt have a room yet?????????


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## aussiearcher

Lien2 said:


> *I wonder how many guys currently have a level on there BHFS sight?* Probably about 99.99% of them?!  Will they let you put black tape over it?
> I'm sorry, but that is a dumb rule. Lien2


Maybe so...but just remember...it was only a year or so ago that the NFAA allowed the bubble.
Rules do change, but it takes time to appease the masses....

The IFAA is a "Member Nation" association and any rule change must be first tabled..discussed in depth...taken back to each different country for their National executive to present to their members...again, to be discussed in depth then to be then voted on...then..back to the International board to be voted on...
If the majority of the international representatives representing their fellow countrymen vote down a change...then the outcome is what it is...

Rules do change, but it takes time to get consensus from the masses.

The game is what it is and everyone is welcome to shoot it...but please don't talk it down, especially if you choose not to participate.


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## Lien2

aussiearcher said:


> Maybe so...but just remember...it was only a year or so ago that the NFAA allowed the bubble.
> Rules do change, but it takes time to appease the masses....
> 
> The IFAA is a "Member Nation" association and any rule change must be first tabled..discussed in depth...taken back to each different country for their National executive to present to their members...again, to be discussed in depth then to be then voted on...then..back to the International board to be voted on...
> If the majority of the international representatives representing their fellow countrymen vote down a change...then the outcome is what it is...
> 
> Rules do change, but it takes time to get consensus from the masses.
> 
> The game is what it is and everyone is welcome to shoot it...but please don't talk it down, especially if you choose not to participate.



I was going to participate, but what should I do with my bubble level? Every sight I have has one. If black tape is allowed, I may still shoot it. If not, the "board" should meet again and take a look at how many people shoot with a level and change the rules to appease the masses, as you say.

Lien2


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## archer_nm

Come on folks this is an International event and the rules that they use don't allow a bubble and it was not that long ago we did not either, so suck it up and think about the magnatude of the whole shoot and just how hard would be to make a small change for the sport for one awsome event..


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## aussiearcher

archer_nm said:


> Come on folks this is an International event and the rules that they use don't allow a bubble and it was not that long ago we did not either, so suck it up and think about the magnatude of the whole shoot and just how hard would be to make a small change for the sport for one awsome event..


Bob..any chance you can get a response to Lien's question?

Is taping or covering the bubble going to be allowed...I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be, but hey...I was wrong once before


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## archer_nm

I will get you an answer, it may take a while.


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## scmelik

Bob,

I can understand that it is an international event, but why change the rules for the NFAA National event too? Or am I completely lost? I want to shoot the NFAA National 3-D but not being able to use binoculars, levels, or fiber optics? That means I would have to go out and by all new sight equipment just for one event and that isn't an option. Please tell me I am just confused on the rules.


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## I BOW 2

Seems to me the words it will never change the NFAA rules to accomadate an over lapping "non" NFAA tournament again were allready in place from the last IFAA/NFAA over lap tourney. Why do we have rules when they are changed on a whim???  Ken


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## FS560

What happened to the NFAA policy issue that we would not compromise our rules to cater to the IFAA BS after the cluster that happened at Watkins Glen in 2004 at the nationals?


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## Lien2

There is a post in the general section that says there will be two different courses, one for IFAA, and one for NFAA. Each would have their own rules to follow.

Lien2


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## scmelik

Lien2 said:


> There is a post in the general section that says there will be two different courses, one for IFAA, and one for NFAA. Each would have their own rules to follow.
> 
> Lien2


now there is a report that Bruce said this past sunday that they would use IFAA rules. Apparently there isn't a single person who knows what is going on.


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## aussiearcher

FS560 said:


> What happened to the NFAA policy issue that we would not compromise our rules to cater to the *IFAA BS *after the cluster that happened at Watkins Glen in 2004 at the nationals?


Just a little bit of hmmm...what is that word i'm looking for...Jim.

In the "rest of the world" International events usually have precident over the local competition..seems, some people and their attitudes just can't deal with that.


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## Lien2

scmelik said:


> now there is a report that Bruce said this past sunday that they would use IFAA rules. Apparently there isn't a single person who knows what is going on.


Wow................ :secret: :mg: 

Lien2


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## scmelik

aussiearcher said:


> Just a little bit of hmmm...what is that word i'm looking for...Jim.
> 
> In the "rest of the world" International events usually have precident over the local competition..seems, some people and their attitudes just can't deal with that.


I have no problem with the IFAA having precedence over the NFAA what I have a problem with is that I am not going to shoot any of the IFAA sanctioned events so why do I need to follow their rules? I practice all year long with a bubble, fiber optics and binos and when I go to nationals this year I cannot use any of that? I can understand if you are goign to be shooting both NFAA and IFAA but alot won't be they will just be there to shoot the NFAA nationals.


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## HOGDADDY

*WBHC/NFAA 3D natl's*

I just talked to Bruce Cull he told me....
1.Yes you can use fiber optics/pins
2.yes you can use peep or kisser but not both
3.must put tape over sight level
4.no binocs
5.If you shoot both WBHC and 3D. final 2 rounds count as 3d score.

I can deal with that.. Im in!


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## Lien2

HOGDADDY said:


> I just talked to Bruce Cull he told me....
> 1.Yes you can use fiber optics/pins
> 2.yes you can use peep or kisser but not both
> 3.must put tape over sight level
> 4.no binocs
> 5.If you shoot both WBHC and 3D. final 2 rounds count as 3d score.
> 
> I can deal with that.. Im in!


So that means there is only one course for both?

Lien2


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## I BOW 2

So that means that "someone" in the NFAA has thrown out the constitution again to suit their own agenda instead of the mandate of the membership!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ken


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## archer_nm

AA, I guess that I don't need to get you an answer?? Ok all of you make a note that a REAL (regular) member got an answer before me and that is the way it should be..:teeth:


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## SDSURESHOT

*amateur status*

That all sounds like good changes. One other thing to remember is, if I'm reading the ifaa rules correct, if you are a sponsored shooter,staff shooter you shoot in the professional division. It says you do not need to be paid. Even if you just promote. I hope I'm wrong in this interpretation.:mg:


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## HOGDADDY

Lien2 said:


> So that means there is only one course for both?
> 
> Lien2


Im not sure...? maybe they'll shoot first 2 rounds of WBHC Like they did 3D last year,if they use that course over the river(neb side)A & B then change it for last two rounds WBHC & NFAA3D?? then that would be one course..right?can call dakota archery..


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## rjharcher

*I just talked to NFAA*

I just got off the phone with MJ at NFAA headquarters, I ask if I just want to shoo the NFAA 3D only then do I have to follow IFAA rules. He said if I just shoot the NFAA 3D only and not the IFAA then I would fall under NFAA rules. That is what I was just told not 5 minutes ago. He also said they are working on figureing out for those who want to shoo both.


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## aussiearcher

SDSURESHOT said:


> That all sounds like good changes. One other thing to remember is, *if I'm reading the ifaa rules correct*, if you are a sponsored shooter,staff shooter you shoot in the professional division. It says you do not need to be paid. Even if you just promote. I hope I'm wrong in this interpretation.:mg:


Don't think your reading it right at all:shade:

Professional Adults Only - Professional Status
Anyone who claims to be a Professional, or who registers as a Professional
at any shoot, or who competes for a Professional cash prize or Professional
award at a tournament.


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## dncx

I'm pretty sure that for the IFAA 3D [BHFS] no vert.wire will be allowed in your sight.


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## Lien2

rjharcher said:


> I just got off the phone with MJ at NFAA headquarters, I ask if I just want to shoo the NFAA 3D only then do I have to follow IFAA rules. He said if I just shoot the NFAA 3D only and not the IFAA then I would fall under NFAA rules. That is what I was just told not 5 minutes ago. He also said they are working on figureing out for those who want to shoo both.


Gosh I hope this is right. :teeth:

Lien2


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## ILMathewsPro

So.......has any one heard 100% what the rules will be? There is nothing new posted on the NFAA web site that I could see.


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## ArcheryNut2006

As of Tuesday night it was still not decided.


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## rjharcher

*Rules for shoot posted*

I just talked to Mary Helen and the rules are now posted . I found the link here it is http://www.fieldarchery.com/depot/d...d NFAA 3D and First Dakota Classic events.pdf . The shoot will be shot under IFAA rules but if you shoot just the NFAA you come under NFAA equipement rules. The main difference is that no binocs, and you have to cut through the line instead of touch.


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## Lien2

rjharcher said:


> I just talked to Mary Helen and the rules are now posted . I found the link here it is http://www.fieldarchery.com/depot/d...d NFAA 3D and First Dakota Classic events.pdf . The shoot will be shot under IFAA rules but if you shoot just the NFAA you come under NFAA equipement rules. The main difference is that no binocs, and you have to cut through the line instead of touch.


This makes sense. Thanks for posting. 
I'll have to look over the rules when I have time. What about a level in IFAA?

Lien2


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## rjharcher

*no level*

no level for BHFS


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## SDSURESHOT

*Fiber Optics*

So to shoot the world bowhunter no fiber optics. But we can use fiber optics and a level for the national. I would like to shoot the world but it would be a big change on the sights.


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## aussiearcher

SDSURESHOT said:


> So to shoot the world bowhunter no fiber optics. But we can use fiber optics and a level for the national. I would like to shoot the world but it would be a big change on the sights.


How do you read the "no Fiber optics" in the rules pertaining to Bowhunter Unlimited (BU)

* Bowhunter Unlimited (BU)
Any type of bow and release aid recognised by the IFAA World Council is
permitted. A sight with 4 or 5 fixed reference points will be allowed and neither the
sight nor any reference point shall be moved during a round.
b. Pin sights are to be of straight stock from point of anchor to sighting points, held
nearer horizontal than vertical within the sight, with only one sighting reference
possible from each pin or reference point. Hooded pins or scope sights are not permitted *

Don't read into it more than is written.


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## SDSURESHOT

*Fiber optics*

The no fiber optics is info that I got from the Nfaa. Can someone who has actually shot the world tell us if you have been able to use them in the past.


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## aussiearcher

SDSURESHOT said:


> The no fiber optics is info that I got from the Nfaa. Can someone who has actually shot the world tell us if you have been able to use them in the past.


"However most pins have a fibre optic dot on the end and these are legal". Direct quote from Steve Kendrick (VP of IFAA) :thumbs_up


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## SteveK

*Correct*



scmelik said:


> thanks. Did I read it right that for the NFAA 3-D shoot and it IFAA 3-D shoot there is no binoculars?


Binos are not allowed.

Steve K


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## SteveK

*Wbhc ifaa.*



ILMathewsPro said:


> So.......has any one heard 100% what the rules will be? There is nothing new posted on the NFAA web site that I could see.


Take a look at the IFAA web site loads of info on the rules under 

RULES FOR WBHC. good reading it pays to know the rules that you will be shooting to.

Steve K


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## 6X60

aussiearcher said:


> Just a little bit of hmmm...what is that word i'm looking for...Jim.
> 
> In the "rest of the world" International events usually have precident over the local competition..seems, some people and their attitudes just can't deal with that.


The difference, of course, is that the "local competition" pre-dates the international organization by 30+ years and that the "local competition" accounts for 40-50% of all the international orgs. members and that the international org wouldn't even exist if that pesky "local competition" hadn't well established the game first.

Darn that "local competiton!" Who does he think the is!

Jim is right. After the fiasco at Watkins Glen the NFAA passed a rule saying that NFAA rules take precedence at national tournaments.


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## archer_nm

Ok, lets look at the real problem, at Watkins Glen you where piggy backing an International Field tournament on top of our Nationals and that is different then what is going to happen (I will repeat the word GOING as in all of this is a mute point). This is a World shoot for 4 days and if you decied to participate in the WORLD tournament then you will have to follow the WORLD rules period. If you are only going to shoot in the NFAA portion (Sat & Sun) then you will follow the NFAA rules as far as equipment goes that is how it has been explained to me. If you are competing against the World shooters then it will not make a hill of beans to the other nations and from what I have seen on the pre-registration it is mostley other nations that are going to shoot and that makes US look pretty poor IMO.. I hope to see more of you there.


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## 6X60

archer_nm said:


> Ok, lets look at the real problem, at Watkins Glen you where piggy backing an International Field tournament on top of our Nationals and that is different then what is going to happen (I will repeat the word GOING as in all of this is a mute point). This is a World shoot for 4 days and if you decied to participate in the WORLD tournament then you will have to follow the WORLD rules period. If you are only going to shoot in the NFAA portion (Sat & Sun) then you will follow the NFAA rules as far as equipment goes that is how it has been explained to me. If you are competing against the World shooters then it will not make a hill of beans to the other nations and from what I have seen on the pre-registration it is mostley other nations that are going to shoot and that makes US look pretty poor IMO.. I hope to see more of you there.


Sounds exactly like Watkins Glen. 

If you chose to shoot Worlds and the NFAA you are at an equipment disadvantage when shooting the NFAA. At least that's what it sounds like to me.


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## aussiearcher

6X60 said:


> Sounds exactly like Watkins Glen.
> 
> *If you choose to shoot Worlds* and the NFAA you are at an equipment disadvantage when shooting the NFAA. At least that's what it sounds like to me.


Good point there 6x60....you get to choose:wink:


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## M Rogers

*IFAA vs NFAA 3D competitions*

For the IFAA World Bowhunter and NFAA 3D in Yankton. If you are shooting both tournaments, you *may* use your Sat and Sun scores from IFAA for the NFAA competition. Or you may choose to shoot a second round each of those days using NFAA legal equipment and binoculars.

If shooting NFAA 3D only, then NFAA equipment rules apply and binoculars may be used.

The rounds to be shot are IFAA rounds, 28 targets, all unmarked 3D. Maximum of 60 yards. Saturday is a 2 arrow round and Sunday is a 1 arrow round. In both of these rounds, the IFAA rule will apply that you must cut through the line for the higher score.

If in doubt or have a question, please call me at 800-811-2331 or e mail [email protected]
Hope this info is helpful.


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## NDarcher

I hope that this does't confuse many of us archers that are attending. If is does, there will be more than one complaint from many archers....


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## aussiearcher

NDarcher said:


> I hope that this does't confuse many of us archers that are attending. If is does, there will be more than one complaint from many archers....


How could this be "confusing"..it's pretty well spelled out below, besides, when don't archers complain



M Rogers said:


> For the IFAA World Bowhunter and NFAA 3D in Yankton. If you are shooting both tournaments, you *may* use your Sat and Sun scores from IFAA for the NFAA competition. Or you may choose to shoot a second round each of those days using NFAA legal equipment and binoculars.
> 
> If shooting NFAA 3D only, then NFAA equipment rules apply and binoculars may be used.
> 
> The rounds to be shot are IFAA rounds, 28 targets, all unmarked 3D. Maximum of 60 yards. Saturday is a 2 arrow round and Sunday is a 1 arrow round. In both of these rounds, the IFAA rule will apply that you must cut through the line for the higher score.
> 
> If in doubt or have a question, please call me at 800-811-2331 or e mail [email protected]
> Hope this info is helpful.


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## NDarcher

Not every one is a member of AT there aussiearcher.....had i not been a member to this site, i may not have known about it and would have been less than thrilled about it when i got down there. That is my point. I can read just fine on AT and i understand the rules.


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