# Building up a riser shelf



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

The goal is to achieve an appropriate launch point both on the shelf and at the side plate at the same "junction". 

Sorry, no pics of an ILF from me. 

Imagine simply gluing a strip of leather on each area of the riser where you want the arrow to touch. Since the ILF riser is flat in both areas, and the center is cut well-past center, that strip would not provide a definitive fulcrum for the arrow to rest upon, and also would be so close to the side plate that the arrow shaft would be to the right (RH shooter) of the center of string thrust (looking down the arrow's nock-to-tip with the string centered on the limbs) which would not provide the proper angle of launch. 

"Building up" simply means to stick something under the leather at the desired fulcrum points to create a "bump" for the arrow to sit upon and lean against for a positive launch (after tuning, of course). This building-up is also done as simply as sticking a small circular furniture pad (or something similar) on both the shelf and side plate where the arrow can sit and lean. Heck, hardened chewing gum would suffice!

The trick on the side plate is to get the arrow bumped out enough to be offset at least a bit to the left of the centered string and shaft to induce proper paradox in flight. Here is where spine tuning takes place, and this distance can vary from, say, half of a shaft width offset way out to the longbow turf of three or four shaft widths offset to the left. 

The shelf is perhaps less critical in height, and a small bump may do the trick since you can adjust the nock point on the string to accommodate your desired flight in the vertical realm. ILF allows tiller adjustment that can assist in this if you so desire. I'm taking a guess here, but the ILF's general design, based upon where they drill the plunger hole, may indicate that the design's intent was for the elevated rest's height to be just under that hole. I don't know if you must mimic this intent, or if the lower bump would suffice, so I leave that to someone else to discuss. It might not be a deal-breaker, and if it were my bow I'd probably do it lower first and see what happens. 

Matchsticks, toothpicks, strips of leather shoe lace, dowel segments sawed into a semi-circle, rubber tubing, and the like can be held against the areas you desire with a piece of tape as you nock the arrow and observe its lay upon them. Predicting the thickness of the "holding leather", you can then use something like Barge cement to glue it all together (I glue the bump item first, let it dry a few minutes, and then apply the final leather cover ... this keeps the bump item in place as I manipulate the cover).

When you tune, if you need to change the depth of either area, you simply pull the leather off the riser, re-bump and re-glue.

It's really quite easy to do and so common that many of the pre-made triangular rests you can buy for a wooden bow often come with a little strip of shoestring leather to use for this purpose. 

I hope this helps a bit. I've bumped a lot, but never bumped an ILF side plate since I use a plunger there, but the principal should be the same with a bit of a bigger bump due to the extreme cut past center.

By the way, "various superficial reasons" is all the reason you need to do this. You're the shooter. If I were shooting my ILF like my other bows, I'd be building a shelf for it, too. 

Good luck.


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## rock74 (Jan 8, 2012)

You can get felt furniture pads from the hardware store and build up and shape to your liking then cover with velcro, the reason most of us use the felt is its easy to shape with a razor or on a grinding wheel and the excel needs a lot of building up on both the shelf and the strike plate.


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Wow! Thin man! I really appreciate the thorough response!!! Thank you!


So how careful/precise does one need to be when building up this bump under the leather/felt? I mean, do I just eyeball it so the arrow will sit off to the left a little (I'm RH). Will this require a bunch of tuning? As a beginner that needs to develop my form, 1) does it even matter if I fine-tune the "bump" height from the strike plate, or 2) should I suck it up and use an elevated rest or plunger or something until my form is good?

Again, thanks so much for all the responses.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Keep it simple. 

Yes, just eyeball the side area and make sure the shaft lays a little to the left. One solid arrow width to the left is fine.

No, you don't need to "suck up" and go with an elevated rest if that is not the way you desire to shoot. An elevated rest may well be the easiest and best way to immediately get shooting, but that does not mean you have to use one, for a build-up of your own creation is, in essence, a type of elevated rest. (If a plunger setup seems tedious, you can always go with a simple stick-on rest, like the Bear Weather Rest. Talk about simplicity!)

Consult the retailer or forum folk when you have decided upon your bow's draw weight, guesstimate your draw length, and they can recommend a shaft spine that will match close enough to your setup to allow you to start shooting without worrying about tuning issues. You really can't tune a bow or arrow until you can shoot with some consistency, so the best route to take at first is to get good advice on a match-up and shoot your butt off. Less-than-perfect tune still shoots quite accurately in the early stages. 

Most "thinking" recurve beginners would possibly be best served by studying - and then forgetting for the time being - issues of tuning and simply going "small child" with the bow and target. "Leap before you look" in this situation may offer more satisfaction by postponing over-think and developing ground-up form in a more relaxed and innocent manner. 


Study and apply form first, and the tuning aspects will start to present themselves in short order.


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## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

A little chunk of wood and some double sided tape. There you have the perfect shelf! LOL


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Good picture, Demmer.

Did I just waste a thousand words?


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Thin Man said:


> Good picture, Demmer.
> 
> Did I just waste a thousand words?



Great picture, but you wasted nothing. I appreciate the feedback from all!!! I have been watching Tim Stricklands Approach to Trad archery DVD I've been watching. Per his recommendations, I've been playing around with a string bow to practice form. Viper's Book is on the way!

Since you brought up shaft recommendations... I have not 100% decided on a bow, but I plan to get a 30 or 35#@28 bow soon. My draw length is about 29". I currently have some 30" GoldTip traditionals with 5" feathers in 3555 spine. Will those be too much for a 30-35# bow?


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

I just use chair pads directly on shelf and strike plate no build up at all.. buy the 3/4 inch circle and cut in half making half moons one for both surfaces work great ...


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## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

Thin Man said:


> Good picture, Demmer.
> 
> Did I just waste a thousand words?


Lol. I had more pictures, but this was the only one I could find. Hope its helpful. 
Furniture padding works well, but I need a little more clearance than what the padding can offer.


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## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

Here is mine.
This is on a Hoyt Excel riser.









3/8" wood dowel flattened on the bottom, and curved to fit against the inside of the riser, just under the berger button hole.
Strike plate is just a solid brass bolt threaded into the hole.

All covered in velcro.

Works real good, and is pretty much bomb proof.

Rick


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## freebird134 (Feb 8, 2009)

Rick Barbee said:


> Here is mine.
> This is on a Hoyt Excel riser.
> 
> 3/8" wood dowel flattened on the bottom, and curved to fit against the inside of the riser, just under the berger button hole.
> ...


Thanks Rick. The Excel is exactly what I want. I like how you covered up the berger hole. Looks great!


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

3555 is a .500 spine and may well be too stiff. Even the Easton chart, notorious for leaning stiff, has a 30-35# recurve down into the .600+ range. 

That said, they'll certainly shoot. But if you want a hotter match from the get-go, holler when your poundage decision is made and the carbon crew here will advise you quite well.


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## bfisherman11 (Oct 16, 2002)

There are always the Gold tip Ultra light Entrada's at 600 spine BUT they are not very long if you need that.

Bill


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## Dewey3 (May 6, 2012)

21" Hoyt Excel with ...

Velcro over a shaped wood sliver on the shelf (superglue to hold both down), small furniture pad on a screw bolt for the adjustable side plate.


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## DrFaust (Feb 13, 2013)

Hi everybody, 
this thread is what I searched for for weeks now. I just registered to see the pics of your modifications.
I just bought a SF Forged Plus riser and grabbed some used Samick Vision carbon limbs for cheap money. 
I phantazised about shooting a metal riser from the shelf and figured something along your buildups. As my draw length is 31.5" I have a 70" bow with 50 lbs on my fingers (machine measured). The thing is a killer if I get it to work properly. 
I now have a radius made from cork (of a wine bottle, HA!) with a felt rest (all glued together with double sided tape), but it looks quite high to meet the button hole. I have no idea how the tiller is affected when I go with a much lower shelf bump. As I'm in the middle of tuning the bow any advice is greatly appreciated.
Great forum, btw.

DrFaust


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Dr. Faust, 

Guten Tag!

If your shelf rig places the arrow at the same level as the plunger hole, then that is where you would have otherwise placed a stick-on rest in the first place. The bow was designed with this in mind, so you are good to go. It may look weird, but any tall shelf build probably would, anyway.

If you wish to shoot with a lower "normal looking" shelf, I'd go ahead and make it the height you want and tune it. The tiller may not have any noticeable effect. Many one-piece bows with fixed tiller are shot either from the shelf or with an elevated riser with no problem whatsoever, and these can be 1/2" or so differences. You merely need to readjust your string's nock point to ensure proper flight. 

I'd set the tiller at the manufacturer's recommended specification and forget it. If you are certain that your arrows match your bow, and have tuned for nock point and spine, and still can't quite get things right, then perhaps you can adjust your tiller to see if this will solve that problem. As long as the tiller is to manufacturer specification, I'd wager that that is the least of your worries. 

Good luck.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Rick Barbee said:


> Here is mine.
> This is on a Hoyt Excel riser.
> 
> View attachment 1585924
> ...


Looks awesome!


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Demmer said:


> View attachment 1585846
> 
> 
> A little chunk of wood and some double sided tape. There you have the perfect shelf! LOL


Demmer, 

Is this the set up the ace shooters use in TRAD division at IBO?? You guys have some good shooters in that division, based on the scores I've seen. Hoping to meet you and some of the others this Spring and Summer.


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## DrFaust (Feb 13, 2013)

Thin Man said:


> Dr. Faust,
> 
> Guten Tag!
> 
> ...


Thin Man, the tiller issue is well thought out, thanks for the direction. I shot some arrows today with my cork shelf, which is as high as the plunger hole. It worked pretty well, but since it snowed and rained, the double sided tape was about to say goodbye after a while. I will have to use some stronger glue when I found my setting. Right now I feel the shelf is a little too far above my hand for proper aiming. But felt coated cork is an easy way to change the setting until I find the most comfortable position.

@Rick Barbee, 
How did you get the velcro fit so smoothly on the berger button hole. This looks fine.

Faust


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## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

DrFaust said:


> @Rick Barbee,
> How did you get the velcro fit so smoothly on the berger button hole. This looks fine.
> 
> Faust


Just a brass bolt. Two pieces of velcro. 1 wrap, and 1 cap

Rick


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## DrFaust (Feb 13, 2013)

I changed the shelf again with cork and felt to flaten it a little below the plunger hole. As the riser is cut past center I formed it that the arrow lies slightly left to the center. The shooting felt good and I shot good groups.
Then I shot a blank shaft test. The shafts spun around like crazy and hit the target about 50 cm left. I just don't get it. 

@ Rick, thanks for the quick reply!
DrFaust


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## rock74 (Jan 8, 2012)

This is how i have mine set up at the moment nylon spacer under velcro and a screw covered in velcro for the strike plate, its ugly but works im thinking of building an epoxy radiused shelf in the future using the epoxy i use for rod building it has a thick consistency like Vaseline and is easily shaped.


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## ChadMR82 (Sep 22, 2009)

Building the shelf in these fashions is nothing more than imitating a rest. The difference is the rest is more tubeable. I would just use a rest on the excel unless some kind of competition rule does not allow it. Just my .02. 

The small furniture pads do work well for what your trying to do.


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## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

ChadMR82 said:


> I would just use a rest on the excel unless some kind of competition rule does not allow it.


This is one of the reasons I do it.

The other two reason are: 
(1) I shoot vanes off the shelf, and didn't want to grind on this riser to get the clearance. 
(2) This shelf design is pretty bomb proof. No worries about it breaking, or falling apart in rough hunting conditions.

Rick


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)




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## rock74 (Jan 8, 2012)

GEREP said:


> View attachment 1597350


Gerep thats nice and clean less material looks better i guess im going for a ride to the hardware store today. what riser is that pictured?


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Rock:

That is an original TT Titan. 

Here is the same thing (larger pad) on a Hoyt Gamemaster.


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## rock74 (Jan 8, 2012)

Gerep

Thanks, Ive used the half pads before but to me its an eye sore, just the nature of the beast i guess shooting off the shelf on an ilf flat riser. I just made small pads out of the leftover felt pads i had left over and attached velcro like your original Titan pic.

Rock


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## rock74 (Jan 8, 2012)




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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Rock:

There is no velcro on the Titan. That is just a heavy duty pad cut in half.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

The one on the Titan is a 3/4" pad cut in half. Just like these.









KPC


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## DrFaust (Feb 13, 2013)

To me the question occurs, with the felt pads and velcro covering, don't your feathers grind on the riser side and shelf? Does it even matter?
If the riser is cut past center, the felt has to be somewhat thicker than in all the above pics, no?
Opinions are welcome!


Btw,


Rick Barbee said:


> Just a brass bolt. Two pieces of velcro. 1 wrap, and 1 cap
> 
> Rick


Rick, thanks again for the quick reply, I just saw the bow project you did on the texasbowhunterforum. That was a work of beauty!


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

If the arrow is properly tuned the feathers should clear any riser construction. The tail should be on its outward "wag" as it moves past the rest area. 

Side plate ... yes, you must make sure the arrow is sitting at a position slightly (or further) outside dead-center of the string. A thick furniture pad may well achieve this automatically and adjusting the thickness of the pad can be used during tuning.


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## Harley D (Feb 27, 2004)

Tagged


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Consider:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2230698&highlight=pads+wseward

The first time I did the Hickory shelf build up I found that I had shaft contact, at times, until the shelf step was pronounced. Started with a full flat Hickory shelf and then started filing off material about 1/2 inch out form the riser, until I got no more shaft contact at all. The shelf ended up looking very much like the second one in the post above. With the low furniture pad I believe I was getting shaft contact on the out board edge of the aluminium shelf. I am not a great shooter which might explain the occasional shaft contact.


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## jasboj (Feb 7, 2011)

For what it's worth to you my recurve has a flat shelf and I tried many options to "raise" an area and after many tries I have found a feather rest to be a great tool. It is a forgiving rest and it is the right shape. Works good for me and very simple to install just peel and stick!


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## Dewey3 (May 6, 2012)

I would think that since Feb of *2013* the OP would have done *SOMETHING* by now !!! 



Harley ... why didn't you start a new thread if you are interested (although you don't SAY you want to do this or with what bow) ???

I *do wish* the mods would *archive* threads over a year old !!!


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## Harley D (Feb 27, 2004)

Dewey3 said:


> I would think that since Feb of *2013* the OP would have done *SOMETHING* by now !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because I just wanted a reference to what people was using to build up their shelves since I just bought a Hoyt Gamemaster and really have no idea what I'm doing. Didn't see the need to start a new thread since the info I needed was in this thread already.


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