# Tribute + Whisker Biscuit = Nock high tears... help!



## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

OK....

I know there was a thread about this last week somewhere, but for the life of me I can't find it, so I'm apologizing in advance.

Finally got some good weather and some free time and went out to tune the new lefty Tribute this weekend. I got my centershot set at 15/16" from the riser to the center of the arrow.... all good there.

However, I cannot for the life of me get rid of a 3/4" to 1" nock high tear with my Whicker Biscuit QS drop tine. I moved the rest up and down, moved the nock up and down.... the only relief I could get was by moving the nock waaaaayyyyy up and at the point the tear was 1/4" or so, the arrow is angling down so bad that it looks like my fletches are smacking the top of the bisquit.... NO GOOD! I never even bothered to shoot it at range like this b/c I know it's not right.

I was trying ever combination of Beman Black Max 400's and 340's with 100 grain and 125 grain heads.... no difference. I also bareshafted and got the exact same tear.

It's not grip issues.... I got that squared away...

I called my dealer/technician on Saturday and he said "good luck" with the WB. He stated that they could not get rid of the nock high tears and my only reprieve was to use a drop away rest b/c I can't adjust the spring tension on a WB like you can on a drop away. He reccommended the TT Shakey Hunter or the new Cobra drop away. Can I cut out some of the black bristles and make it "softer" on the bottom and correct this issue?

I don't want to give up my WB, but this nock high tear is driving me crazy.... I was able to tune it out of my 05 Allegiance and get bullet holes with my nock being about 1/8" high. My Slick Tricks are hitting lower than my field points... about 3"-4" low at 40 yards.... they were dead on with my Allegiance.

I've got the arrow at 90 deg. to the string and perfectly aligned with the berger holes.

Any suggestions guys?

THanks.


-ZA


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## BradMc26 (Oct 16, 2002)

ZA206,

Funny you should post this as I was about to ask the same question.

I have a new Pearson Generation II with Beman ICS 400's and Blazers.

What fletching are you using?

Funny thing is that I can shoot the same arrow with feathers and the nock high tear goes almost to nothing.

Also with the Blazers I am getting a bad left tear (I am left handed). With feather, perfect left/right shot.

It has me thinking these Blazers are a little tougher to tune. 

I did read on the WB website and other tuning books that a slightly high tear is ok. Actually means that the arrow is rising away from the rest. 

I know what you mean by it being frustrating though. Initially I also had the nocked arrow sitting way high. I looked way to weird to me, so this weekend I have gone back and changed things.

Do you have the arrow sitting to where it is riding parallel with the berger holes? Then start with your leveling from there. Seemed to help me.


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

*Yup...*

Arrow is at perfect 90 deg. to the string and the arrow is dead even through the berger holes.

The blazer vanes have nothing to do with this tear b/c I was also getting it with a bare shaft. You may have had some funny contact issues or maybe your centershot was a tad off to be getting that left tear.... my centershot it perfect (I even walkback tuned the centershot on Sat.). My tears are perfectly straight up... no left or right whatso ever.

-ZA


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## BradMc26 (Oct 16, 2002)

Oops, didnt read your part about having the arrow level through the berger holes. Sorry.

Like I said I a bit perplexed with this rest also. Hopefully some guys with more experience can chime in.

I was really wanting to shoot Blazers this year. But if I cant get them to do any better, I am back to feathers.


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## WYBowhunter (Jan 19, 2003)

Are your cams timed correctly. I was having a similar problem with my Diablo NRG Hybrid and it turned out my cams weren't timed correctly.


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

*No... then yes....*

I had advanced the timing on my top cam for a little more valley and it had the tear .... I took it back to even timing with the bottom cam and the tear was still there. I thought of that too and forgot to post it.

I also checked the tiller on top and bottom and they were dead even.

Anyone?

-ZA


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## mountaingoat (Mar 12, 2006)

You shouldnt have a problem with cam timing on the binary cam system. THEY DONT COME OUT OF TIME! Try letting your top limb out quarter turns until the tear starts to go down. It sounds like your top cam is working harder than your bottom cam. If you let is out it will weaken the rotation and hopefully get rid of your tear.


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

Might have to try that. BTW, you can advance or ****** the timing of the cams by changing the twists on the cables..... depending on what you want to do.

Anyone else got any suggestions?

-ZA




mountaingoat said:


> You shouldnt have a problem with cam timing on the binary cam system. THEY DONT COME OUT OF TIME! Try letting your top limb out quarter turns until the tear starts to go down. It sounds like your top cam is working harder than your bottom cam. If you let is out it will weaken the rotation and hopefully get rid of your tear.


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

I have had similiar problems withe the WB in the past. The MZE 600-pc works fine. I have put 4 of them on tributes in the past 2 days.:wink:


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## kpsingleton (Feb 26, 2006)

I also am a lefty and for hunting I shoot the WB with blazers and also had the tear that you talk about. Some things to try.

1. Turn down the bow a couple of pounds. I tried this and it seemed to help a little bit. Better to have a little bit overspined arrow than underspined.

2. Use a wrist sling when paper tuning. I have learned that anything less than a perfect, relaxed grip will change the arrow flight.

3. Use a little bit bigger of a biscuit. So if you shoot carbons, use the aluminum biscuit. I have always used a little bit larger biscuit than what they recommended and I read that it is good if you are a release shooter as it will give the arrow some room to flex.

Most importantly how are your groups? Ultimately I wasn't able to get a perfect bullet hole yet my groups were pretty good out to 40 yards. Since I use this rest for hunting that was perfectly acceptable.

Hope this helps some...

Good luck


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## mountaingoat (Mar 12, 2006)

Yes, but the cam system was design so that they dont come out of time. If you twist the control cable you will only speed up, or slow down the cam.


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

Answers...

1) Don't think it was a spine issue b/c I tried several different combinations of arrows and head weights.... the 340's with 100 grn. heads is pretty stiff. I'll try turning it down a little and see what happens.

2) I always use a wrist sling and a high wrist grip... open hand with the bow only supported by the web between my thumb and index finger.

3) I shoot the "medium" biscuit with axis size arrows.... lot's of clearance. I can see alot of light around the sides and top of the biscuit. I can't see using the aliminum "large" biscuit in this setup.

4) Groups.... field point are pretty solid, but my broadheads hit lower than I'd like. I'm a perfectionist and I think you are wasting alot of performance by having an arrow that might be porpoising.


Anyone else?

Thanks to everyone who's posted so far... I appreciate your comments and advice.:cocktail: 

-ZA



kpsingleton said:


> I also am a lefty and for hunting I shoot the WB with blazers and also had the tear that you talk about. Some things to try.
> 
> 1. Turn down the bow a couple of pounds. I tried this and it seemed to help a little bit. Better to have a little bit overspined arrow than underspined.
> 
> ...


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## LeesburgGamecoc (May 25, 2004)

That is a tough one. I have a 29" Tribute with a WB deluxe that I have no problem getting bullets out of. How are you moving the rest up with the drop tine with no vertical adjustment? I had a tail high tear (broadheads and bare shafts hitting lower than field points), and got rid of it by moving the WB deluxe up. It is easier than moving the knocking point around IMO, and that is why I swtiched to the deluxe. Also, is your grip like you said in "the web" between your thunb and index finger? Try it on the thumb muscle if it isn't there, not down in the web. The dealer is full of crap about not being able to tune away the high tear with the WB. My dealer got an initial bullet hole with one move of the rest, and he says that is common with Bowtech and WB. When I retuned it, it took me a little longer, but got perfect bullets. How long is the arrow?


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## diamondhunter (Jan 21, 2006)

i have a diamond triumph.... i also have a 1/4" nock high tear, i would like to get rid of it but cant seem too . i have topped out my deluxe wb ... i have also tried lowering my nocking point , i do use a release and i have a very relaxed grip ... please help


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

I have had problems with the WB, I played with mine to figure out that it had a weak spot. I turned the WB until I realized that the nock hole followed the direction of the WB. I tossed mine in the trash. Sorry I won't ever shoot another one of those ever again.


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## Southern Hunter (Apr 18, 2005)

ZA,
This might not help you but, I was having all kinds of arrow flight problems out of my WB. Broad-heads hitting lower than field tips, anyway I was just about to release an arrow and looked at my WB and the arrow had dropped down in the black bristles. I let down and bounced my bow up and down very lightly and my arrow would drop down in the biscuit. Check and make sure this is not happening to you. By the way I was shooting Max 4 arrows the same dia. you are shooting.


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

Try a different rest, I think it will be worth your time. I have a Ripcord for sale if you are interested in it:wink:


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

It's not easy to move it up and down and keep it parallel to the string.... that's for sure. 

I tried several different styles of grip changes and it didn't matter. The arrows were Beman Black Max 400's at 27.5" and 340's at 28.5".

Where is your arrow and nocking point in relation to the berger holes?



-ZA



LeesburgGamecoc said:


> That is a tough one. I have a 29" Tribute with a WB deluxe that I have no problem getting bullets out of. How are you moving the rest up with the drop tine with no vertical adjustment? I had a tail high tear (broadheads and bare shafts hitting lower than field points), and got rid of it by moving the WB deluxe up. It is easier than moving the knocking point around IMO, and that is why I swtiched to the deluxe. Also, is your grip like you said in "the web" between your thunb and index finger? Try it on the thumb muscle if it isn't there, not down in the web. The dealer is full of crap about not being able to tune away the high tear with the WB. My dealer got an initial bullet hole with one move of the rest, and he says that is common with Bowtech and WB. When I retuned it, it took me a little longer, but got perfect bullets. How long is the arrow?


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## buckfeverben (Dec 2, 2004)

2) I always use a wrist sling and a high wrist grip... open hand with the bow only supported by the web between my thumb and index finger.



ZA, 

For starters....I think you need to review your grip with your bowhand. I used to shoot like that...and I'm telling you...there are better ways. =) Try placing the meaty part of your lower thumb instead of inside the web like you said....it may feel awkward at first...but give it some time and you'll likely shoot much better this way, cause it's much harder to torque the bow with this grip....

Anyways...as far as your papertuning dilema....don't put so much stock into getting a bullet hole in a piece of paper....see if you can broadhead tune your two groups together. If you can make minor adjustments to get your broadheads up with your fieldpoints...call it a day and enjoy the new bow. I completely understand the analness.......perfectionist way of thinking and wanting to get that perfect bullet hole in the paper...but you can't eat paper...can you?


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## Arrroman (May 11, 2003)

ZA206 said:


> OK....
> 
> I know there was a thread about this last week somewhere, but for the life of me I can't find it, so I'm apologizing in advance.
> 
> ...


You may need to add tiller to the lower limb to change the nock high tear.

If you want to "soften" the B-2 biscuit, just flip it over so the black bristles are to the side instead of on the bottom, it fits either way.

Good luck tuning!

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>


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## alain (Dec 10, 2003)

I have the same thing with my tribute tried every spine arrow and points and i have a 3d rover and tried a quicktune 3000 and its always the same thing i have a high tear 1/2 inches. When my spring tension is low or med the tear (fletching) is hitting left and when i put my spring tension higher its getting high tear. I will play with it again tomorrow and see what happen........


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

Hopefully Crackers or some other Bowtech dealer that knows these things inside and out can help me/us out.

I'll try messing with the tiller and see what happens.

Thanks for everyone's responses... I appreciate your time and help!:cocktail: 

-ZA


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## GPtimes2 (Jan 27, 2006)

*Patrick-*

Sent you a PM


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## ELKhuntR (Feb 5, 2006)

ZA206 said:


> Might have to try that. BTW, you can advance or ****** the timing of the cams by changing the twists on the cables..... depending on what you want to do.
> 
> Anyone else got any suggestions?
> 
> -ZA



yes you can, but it's my understanding that you have to careful with this and not put too many twists in, which I guess is common sense. Maybe it's not a problem on the new 06 models but I'd recommend following up on the Bowtech manual before adding twists.


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## bro2032 (Dec 20, 2005)

*Tribute high tear*

Ive got a knock high tear that won't go away.I tried everthing.I shoot a Quick Tune 3000 and I just ordered a Trophy Taker drop-away to see if that will help.I'll let you know..

Brandon


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## kpsingleton (Feb 26, 2006)

Just checked this thread out again and I have to agree with the post who said a high wrist is not the best. It seems that used to be the case but not anymore.

Check out this article. Helped me out a lot.

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/grip/index.htm


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

*Update....*

Well... Today I got out and worked on the Tribute some more. I had three dots showing outside each limb and had considered that possibly the cams were overrotating into the lock-up stops and maybe that was effecting my shot. 

No dice... same thing... I added twists in the cables and got it to exactly two dots showing and had my wife assisting me, she said that I had a small gap between the lock up stop and the cables... the 1"+ nock high tear was still there. 

I also tweaked the top nd bottom tillers.... NOTHING.... except for when I let off of the bottom limb bolt, it changed the cam sets so that I had three at the top and it had moved the string about 1/8" towards the top cam and angled the arrow down while it was on the rest.

I also tried different grips... nothing... same tear. 

I also added the biggest and longest stabilizer I had (thought I was maybe popping up during the finish)..... nothin.... 

I'm so frustrated I could scream. I'm ticked that I'll have to get a drop away just so this thing will tune. That BS in my opinion. Arrrggghhhhh!!!   

Anyone else?

-ZA


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## hawgdawg (Sep 8, 2002)

The bisquit needs to be exactly square to the string also. ON the drop tine WB if you move the rest up or down it makes the bisquit not square to string. The Deluxe has the adjustment to move the insert up or down without changing the mounting on the bow.


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

Oh yea.... the specs as measured after getting two dots showing on the cams.

Brace height = 7.5"
Axle to axle = 31.5"
Let off = 80%

I got the same tears after that I did before any of these changes.... bare shafts and fletched shafts... didn't matter. 

-ZA


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## cloquet (Jan 12, 2004)

I called the WB people when I was having problems. Very nice people and they were willing to visit and try to help. One of the things said was if everthing is tuned perfect broadheads typically will hit an inch or so lower at 20 yards than field points. I don't know about those paper tears because I don't paper tune. Waste of time. Walk back tuneing is where it is at. If you shoot good groups at all yardages what does paper matter. I watch people spend hours shooting at paper and when they finally think they have got it good start walk back and change all the settings. As far as your grip goes, the guys that said go to a low wrist grip gave you good advice imo.


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