# So what happened to multi-rod stabs anyway? Why the way of the do-do?



## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

I currently and have always used the Beiter. Not sure why they are so rare, but everybody loves looking at them, that's for sure. I think they disappeared because most of the current top shooters get their stuff for free so thats what they shoot. In turn they are emulated by those that follow them.


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

Right? Either it's the rarity of them or just the beauty that makes them so attractive. Please tell me, do you find them pretty functional compared to a single bar? Any noticeable differences?


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

I personally think multi rod stabs look terrible.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Dacer said:


> I personally think multi rod stabs look terrible.


So your telling me I have bad taste? That hurts my feelings..:sad:


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

target1 said:


> So your telling me I have bad taste? That hurts my feelings..:sad:


If it's working for you then it really doesn't matter what they look like. Having cool looking stuff is just a plus.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

zephus said:


> Right? Either it's the rarity of them or just the beauty that makes them so attractive. Please tell me, do you find them pretty functional compared to a single bar? Any noticeable differences?


I used to have a Doinker Platinum. It shot ok. The Beiter still works for me and it does indeed have a softer feel. I have a limbsaver on the end of the main rod and many I have let shoot my bow says it is so quite and shoots like butter. (which is a good thing)


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Dacer said:


> If it's working for you then it really doesn't matter what they look like. Having cool looking stuff is just a plus.


cool is in the eye of the beholder. When I show up at JOAD time all the kids oogle over it and tell me how cool it looks to them.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

target1 said:


> When I show up at JOAD time all the kids oogle over it and tell me how cool it looks to them.


That's cool.


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

target1 said:


> shoots like butter


Now you're just sweetening the appeal. Or shall I say, buttering it. :happy1:

Now I definetely gotta get a hold of one in 30 inches.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Multi-rods are very flexible and although they provide a super-soft feel, they also tend to bounce a bit. They also catch more wind than smaller diameter stiff carbon rods. 

I shot Doinker Quadra-flex for a while, and although the rod made the bow feel pretty sweet, I eventually chose the solid Doinker because my hold was steadier with it.


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

limbwalker, pray tell where is your quadra flex set now?


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

When it comes down to it, the length of the rod and the amount of weight on the end are going to be the main factors of stabilization. Diameter, flexibility, and dampening capability have no affect on the moment of inertia. Nearly everything a stabilizer does beyond generating inertia happens after the arrow has left the bow, making it entirely up to the preference of the archer. 

That being said, design can have some impact when shooting outdoors. Too much wind resistance is the main complaint I hear about the multi rod stabs. I like the idea that Fuse and SF Elite+ have taken with the aerodynamic stabs, I would like to try one out soon. 

Mostly though, I agree with target1. People buy what the pros are using. Rick Vanderven (not sure about spelling) took the World Cup gold indoor in vegas last year, and suddenly everyone had fuse stabs, string stoppers, and shooting glasses. Like moths to a flame :wink:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> and suddenly everyone had fuse stabs, string stoppers, and shooting glasses.


Well, not everyone.

Zephus, I sold them years ago.


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

If FUSE stabs are engineered to be aerodynamic in outdoor conditions, and they win the indoor World Cup gold... and people go crazy to buy them because they win indoor gold...

People going crazy for outdoor stabs because they won indoor gold...

You gotta tell me something is up with that last sentence lol.

Nothing against FUSE. Someday I'd love to try their stabilizers. Outdoors, that is...


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Zephus, I sold them years ago.


Awww, oh well, my search to try these goes on. Maybe I'll visit Leven Industries and see if they have any leftover stock...


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

You think it's because a Dutch archer was shooting those products that they took off here in the US?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Diameter, flexibility, and dampening capability have no affect on the moment of inertia.


Except that there is a lag effect when a flexible stabilizer is used. The riser is able to move more before the full effect of the stabilizer is felt, as opposed to a stiffer rod. This is one reason stiffer rods are being used. Probably the main reason.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

Dacer said:


> You think it's because a Dutch archer was shooting those products that they took off here in the US?


Not just him but yea, people follow winners. Gold cup matches get the views.I'm just pointing out what i saw happen. correlation doesn't prove causation but it does imply it.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

zephus said:


> If FUSE stabs are engineered to be aerodynamic in outdoor conditions, and they win the indoor World Cup gold... and people go crazy to buy them because they win indoor gold...
> 
> People going crazy for outdoor stabs because they won indoor gold...
> 
> ...


Archers are superstitious? That's the best explanation I got. Honestly I prefer large diameter rods when shooting indoors for similarly superstitious reasons. But I saw an awful lot of Fuse setups getting bought and used in Vegas. Gotta keep up with the Jones' I guess.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

target1 said:


> I currently and have always used the Beiter. Not sure why they are so rare, but everybody loves looking at them, that's for sure. I think they disappeared because most of the current top shooters get their stuff for free so thats what they shoot. In turn they are emulated by those that follow them.



Those same sponsored archers could choose Doinker Quads over Estremos, yet don't. 


They are soft and a bit floppy. Many folks like a stiffer long rod. 

I have Quads and love them. They are tune able, and I get a great dead feel from mine. I vacillate as I have ACEs as well, which just work, and when switching between the two nearly identical rigs I shoot, I want them to feel as close to each other as possible.


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Multi-rods are very flexible and although they provide a super-soft feel, they also tend to bounce a bit.


I believe I've read somewhere that Mr. Beiter intended to use his multi-rod long stabilizer without weights on the end. They become too flexible when you add weights, and currently that seems to be the trend.



Ten_Zen said:


> Rick van der Ven (not sure about spelling)


Fixed.


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## AetherZ (Jul 19, 2013)

I use the Beiter and love the adjustability. It has really helped me play around with the balance to get the right feel. Never used the same for side rods, I think those are a little silly as they are too short to really adjust, and the feel isn't as important to me.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Pretty popular still around Europe. Best used without weights or with light weights. Expect them to become extremely popular again in few years, these things tend to go in cycles.


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

ThomVis said:


> I believe I've read somewhere that Mr. Beiter intended to use his multi-rod long stabilizer without weights on the end. They become too flexible when you add weights, and currently that seems to be the trend.


But without weight at the end, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a steady draw? That would leave the stab less front heavy than most if not all stabs, giving you a different point of inertia...

Okay, my physics may be wrong on that. But that's what I imagine.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

zephus said:


> But without weight at the end, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a steady draw? That would leave the stab less front heavy than most if not all stabs, giving you a different point of inertia...
> 
> Okay, my physics may be wrong on that. But that's what I imagine.


"Prior to 2009, stabilizers were used mostly to take vibration out of the bow, _not_ to help hold the bow still. People used weights on the end of rods for a specific reaction after shot, not for a good holding pattern. Stabilizers are now used to help the archer hold more still on the target. This allows him to execute a confident shot, resulting in tighter groups down range. All of the weight in the rod itself has been moved out to the end of the bar to give more effective leverage against the shooter, further strengthening this effect." ~Jake Kaminski, _Tuning of the Stabilization System_ 

I guess that might have something to do with why these multi rods dont get used as much anymore. I honestly didn't know that until 5 minutes ago when I read this article in his mobile app called Apptitune. That really makes no sense to me though, anyone else from pre-2009 care to weigh in on this?


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## gster123 (Dec 17, 2012)

Strange. I was using weights on rods to hold steady in 96, thought everyone knew that back then. Wonder why people forgot about it then remembered it in 09.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

They work very well with heavy risers. They had a peak in popularity after 2004 when Galiazzo won gold shooting Beiter rods. Even some KSL:s archers, like Cuddihy shot them at that time with excellent results.

It's more to do with marketing hype than anything, they are certainly a working solution. The feel is quite different than with single rod stabs. But as I said, I certainly see them every day and plenty of archers who tour european competitions shoot them.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Prior to 2009, stabilizers were used mostly to take vibration out of the bow, not to help hold the bow still. People used weights on the end of rods for a specific reaction after shot, not for a good holding pattern


Utter nonsense. This the new model in sports marketing, make up the facts to suit your sponsor. It's finally arrived in archery. 

I imagine Don Rabska, Dick Tone, Rick McKinney and so many others are rolling on the floor if they read this.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Utter nonsense. This the new model in sports marketing, make up the facts to suit your sponsor. It's finally arrived in archery.
> 
> I imagine Don Rabska, Dick Tone, Rick McKinney and so many others are rolling on the floor if they read this.


So it was common for the stabilizer system to specifically be tuned for achieving a better pin float pattern prior to this? And not to get a bow reaction? 

In Mckinney's book he points to adjusting tiller to address a sight pin that floats down or up not adjusting stabilizer weight or position. Where as Kaminski's school of thought is that the stabilizers should be adjusted to solve that not tiller - as well as any left/right swings in pin float to be addressed with the stabilizers. 

Infact in Mckinney's book the topic of stabilizers is address in rather non specific way. The biggest point being to get the mass weight right for an individual so that the mass of the bow isn't a distraction for executing the shot. 

What sponsor is Kaminski making up facts for? Bee stinger? He shoots AAE rods these days. And when his app was release he was shooting easton ACE rods.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

So there is no doubt that Jake Kaminski is an enormous tool for his sponsors (see the hoyt fashion show for reference), but I find it hard to believe that he would go so far as to out and out lie to the archery community, not to mention (like dacer said) it really doesn't do much to benefit any one sponsor since almost all stabilizer manufacturers have moved to the stiffer, lighter rod. But I wasn't shooting prior to 2009 so I have nothing but hearsay to go on.


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## gster123 (Dec 17, 2012)

Not up on Ricks book but when it comes to floating sight pins up and down and adjusting tiller is this not on the draw?

As far as I was told the stabiliser system and weights was to get a more stable hold. Rods were a more uniform weight distribution but nothing has changed as far as I am aware. The trains of thought from back in 96 prior to my hiatus from the sport until 2012 are the same so quite surprised with that quote.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

gster123 said:


> Not up on Ricks book but when it comes to floating sight pins up and down and adjusting tiller is this not on the draw?


You are right in that in the book it talks about testing tiller by doing a slow linear draw while holding the pin on the target to see if it pull up or down. This has the effect of adjusting the holding pin float patter at full draw. With the idea that you should adjust tiller so that it doesn't pull up or down thus solving any up and down swings in pin float. 

Kaminski recommends to adjust tiller in the positive to achieve the desired feel on the draw hand fingers not to solve and up/down swings In Pin float. 

Perhaps I am not reading between the lines correctly. I've read the passages several times and that is what I read from it.



Ten_Zen said:


> So there is no doubt that Jake Kaminski is an enormous tool for his sponsors (see the hoyt fashion show for reference), but I find it hard to believe that he would go so far as to out and out lie to the archery community


I think John is just trying to call it as HE sees it. Though in this case from the hours and hours I've spent reading about stabilization and other technical stuff I'm inclined to think Kaminski made that statement from his app with the utmost honesty. However john was THERE prior to 2009 and I was not.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Back on topic, my bieter has a limbsaver on the end no other weights. You can say what you want, I've tried many other stabilizers but this one works the best for me. Somehow Beiter still manages to sell lots of these. I guess they haven't got the word that they are ugly and don't work. Beiter is a company that everyone loves to hate.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

McKinney has forgotten more about stabilization than most of us will ever know. 

If I wanted to know what the school of thought was prior to 2009, I'd either refer to my own notes, recall my own observations, or ask someone like Rick. I don't need an App for that, thanks. 

The only observation anyone really needs to make here is that the stabilization used by the Koreans has essentially been unchanged since the 90's. It's ironically a lot like the stabilization seen on Rick's bow in his book, and identical to that used by my daughter to this day. As soon as the Koreans stop winning, I'll pay closer attention to what stabilization "trends" are doing. 

John


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

target1 said:


> Back on topic, my bieter has a limbsaver on the end no other weights. You can say what you want, I've tried many other stabilizers but this one works the best for me. Somehow Beiter still manages to sell lots of these. I guess they haven't got the word that they are ugly and don't work. Beiter is a company that everyone loves to hate.


Not sure where you came up with that. No need to get defensive over your choices. Beiter is arguably the most respected name in target archery products, so "everyone loves to hate" is just not accurate. Beiter rods work fine too. It's just that some of us prefer a steadier rod with more weights on the end. Just personal preference.


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## RMBX10 (Jun 20, 2002)

I'll give Kaminski the benefit of the doubt in his statement about stabilization prior to 2009. I don't think that he intentionally created misinformation, rather he relied on the availability heuristic in writing his statement instead of conducting extensive research on the subject prior to publication. In other words, he's young and doesn't have the personal history with trends in archery that someone like Rick McKinney, Don Rabska, or Rob Kaufhold whose company I believe is a sponsor of Kaminski.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Then don't write about historic trends. Simple.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

Doesn't he have an account on here? anybody know? Maybe we can get him to explain.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Ten, if your quote is accurate, I'd say he offered his explanation right there.

I simply cannot believe an archer with his experience would suggest that the purpose of stabilizers changed in 2009, and that prior to that they were NOT being used to steady the bow. Why then would they be called stabilizers? 

If anything, I think it was a case of a poor choice of words. I'm sure that around 2009, the way HE approached stab. setup changed in HIS own mind (no doubt with the help of the folks at B-Stinger) but to suggest that there was a fundamental change in the use of stab's that year just is not in line with reality.

Meanwhile, the Koreans setups remain unchanged for how many years?

I'm not going to argue this anymore. Styles of gear come and go for a variety of reasons. The scores David Barnes shot with his Beiter rods were not statistically different than the scores archers shoot today. They are still a viable option for those who wish to use them. I choose not to use multi-rod stabilizers for several reasons, but would never look down on someone who chooses them, even at the highest levels of the sport.


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## leschrader (Jun 26, 2012)

In 1968, this was my first target bow. The stab was adjustable with sliding weights for balance and float. It still shoots great and in some ways, I prefer it to my new hoyt. The stab assembly was only about 14 inches long and under some conditions, more stable than my 30 inch rig. Back then, we were looking for balance and float stability....same as now.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Ok, I can't make out the name of the winner in 1966. Could you tell me? I love the workmanship on those old wooden risers. The Wilson's, Wing's, Bear's and many others, were works of art. I wonder how much a bowyer would charge now to make something of this quality?

Back on point, the main purpose of stabilization has ALWAYS been to stabilize the sight picture. The evolution of what we currently shoot with is really not much of a departure from the aluminum rod I shot in the 60s.


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> The scores David Barnes shot with his Beiter rods were not statistically different than the scores archers shoot today. They are still a viable option for those who wish to use them. I choose not to use multi-rod stabilizers for several reasons, but would never look down on someone who chooses them, even at the highest levels of the sport.


As viable as they sound, I wish that the option was more accessible today. Beiter aside, I had hoped the companies that did manufacture these stabilizers did not stop so abruptly. I do understand the concepts of market demand so I cannot argue the pros of removing them from the market. Yet I do know if some people do like how multi-rods feel and work, perhaps variety would be necessary.

I guess we need a swing in a trend, as a previous post had suggested. I, for one, still would like to try a set to see what the rage was about just a few years ago.


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## leschrader (Jun 26, 2012)

Midway,
It was Charles Wertz with a 583.....
Like you said, it has always been about stability in the "float" and balance during the shot......after the arrow is gone, it's all show.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Ten, if your quote is accurate, I'd say he offered his explanation right there.
> 
> I simply cannot believe an archer with his experience would suggest that the purpose of stabilizers changed in 2009, and that prior to that they were NOT being used to steady the bow. Why then would they be called stabilizers?
> 
> ...


I think this has been a very thought provoking thread, and I really appreciate your perspective. Questioning the logic in stabilization trends over the years, questioning the true benefits of different stabilization techniques. These kind of threads really help archers to better understand their equipment and to think for themselves about it instead of just listening to things like Apptitune. I have learned quite a bit about the history of the stab (following the references given in this thread). I bet I'm not the only one either. 

So thank you for "arguing this" with us, I guess is what I'm trying to say. 

Cheers


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

leschrader said:


> In 1968, this was my first target bow. The stab was adjustable with sliding weights for balance and float. It still shoots great and in some ways, I prefer it to my new hoyt. The stab assembly was only about 14 inches long and under some conditions, more stable than my 30 inch rig. Back then, we were looking for balance and float stability....same as now.
> 
> View attachment 2006434


I actually have one of those, somewhere in my garage...I think


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

If my memory serves me correctly (big if) then the original purpose of stabilizers was as "stabilizers" in the usual sense. I think the function changed (early 1980's?)with the introduction of metal risers and slot in limbs. At just about any tournament you went to at that period somebody's riser would end up in pieces on the floor. The vibration in the riser resulted in them failing via fatigue cracking. At the same time carbon stabilizers came in and these operated as tuning forks. They were hopeless as stabilizers as they were far too flexible but presumably they did prolong riser life somewhat. While I never owned one (stuck to aluminum) I can remember these rods. You shot your arrow, put the bow in the stand collected your arrows, and when you got back the long rod was still vibrating.

Enter Mr. Beiter, a seriously good design engineer. The Beiter multi-rod was far stiffer then the carbon rods of the time and at the same time the tuner system a) provided an effective energy dissipation mechanism and b) discouraged vibration resonance. They swept the board as regards bow stabilizers.

What changed is that while Beiter multi-rods are just as good as they always have been developments in the materials technology have resulted in a big improvement in the mono rods. They are at least as stiff as the Beiter rods, lighter and have similar vibration damping and resonance avoidance characteristics. Which is currently "better" I don't known but the other main factor is fashion and this at the moment is in favor of the mono-rods.

PS I still use my Beiter rod.  - Though the color has pretty much faded from the plastic.


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## olympics84 (Nov 5, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> Utter nonsense. This the new model in sports marketing, make up the facts to suit your sponsor. It's finally arrived in archery.
> 
> I imagine Don Rabska, Dick Tone, Rick McKinney and so many others are rolling on the floor if they read this.


:zip:

It's funny how the current trend (U.S.) resembles the original 1975 vbar system...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I often think the same thing.

Glenn, maybe in a few years we'll see 12" rods top and bottom again.  

I think folks would be shocked at just how effective that setup can be. Fits in a bow rack too.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Joe, your explanation is thorough, as usual.

Does anyone know when the Easton A/C/E stabilizers came into being, as compared to the Beiter? 

I've long been a fan of those "old" A/C/E rods (my daughter's whole setup is A/C/E and a Cavalier J-bar... how's that for throwback? ha, ha) and carried a pair of 34" Ultrasonic A/C/E rods on 5" extensions (for a total rod length of 39" plus weights) into the stadium in Athens. They seemed plenty stiff to me - easily stiffer than the Beiter rods.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Does anyone know when the Easton A/C/E stabilizers came into being, as compared to the Beiter?


Not quite sure, early 90's I'd guess, Beiter rods in 1996. I ran into this from ole Mr. G T, back from '93 when looking it up, from old Sagi board. Link.

I still have those Shibuya Kojiro rods somewhere. With Yamaha metric threads sadly. I bought them in '94 for Samick Progress II. (btw. Kojiro Sasaki is famous Japanese swordsman)


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Good stuff there by gt. Pity he can't still contribute.

Sounds like perhaps the A/C/E rods were around prior to the Beiter, which tells me that stiff, small diameter rods were available before the Beiter rods. I tried both when starting out in 2003, and I know I preferred the A/C/E to the Beiter right away. The Beiter just felt too soft to me. 

Both were improvements over the X7 aluminum longrod on my first Olympic recurve however.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

My first stab was an aluminum golf club shaft with a golf ball for a weight. I can imagine the looks it would draw nowadays


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

Hehe, there's this guy at our range who does our local league. He calls himself a "stab enthusiast" and makes his own stabilizers. One of his creations was a golf club shaft with some giant weight at the front of it. That last post totally reminded me of him.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I made a golf club shaft stabilizer for one of my youngest students this past year. Works fine. It's a "carbon" stabilizer with a weight on the end. So what if it was originally part of the shaft from my old driver?


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## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> I made a golf club shaft stabilizer for one of my youngest students this past year. Works fine. It's a "carbon" stabilizer with a weight on the end. So what if it was originally part of the shaft from my old driver?


Now all the kids are going to want one of those cool green Aldila X-Stiff stabilizers!


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Bought a 30" Super Stix (4 rods) earlier this year and totally love it. Shoots great! I too have always love the way they look.


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## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

I use my long Beiter with red, white, and blue tuners. Feels good and looks great on my flag Aerotec!


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

The multi-rodders are finally coming out, lol.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I sort of miss my Beiters. Shot most of my best scores with them. Only switched as they started to be broken in so many places that it was cheaper to replace them than rebuild them bit by bit (you can definetely do that, as parts they cost about same as ready stabs). My dad driving over the long rod with a tractor definetely hastened that process. Gave what remained to someone as spares.

If I were to buy new stabs, Beiters would be really high in my list.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

InKYfromSD said:


> Now all the kids are going to want one of those cool green Aldila X-Stiff stabilizers!


Actually, it was a Taylor Made shaft pulled from an R7. I made a joke one evening at practice in front of a couple of dads who I knew played golf, and asked them "did you know Taylor Made used to make archery stabilizers?" LOL! It took them a minute, but they started laughing when they figured it out. 

The kid loves it because it's one of a kind.


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## Cylosis (Jan 5, 2014)

InKYfromSD said:


> I use my long Beiter with red, white, and blue tuners. Feels good and looks great on my flag Aerotec!


Like Kaminski's HPX?

I really want to see a picture of your setup now.


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## gster123 (Dec 17, 2012)

I shot with the ACE VRS rods in about 95 then switched to a beiter (didn't get on with it) when they first came out. Essentially the ACEs were there previous.


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## Phyrmon (Mar 5, 2011)

Zephus, I have one of Limbwalker's Doinkers. It's pretty sweet!


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

Perhaps worth noting that quite a few Beiter multi-rods are to be seen currently on the shooting line at Wroclaw. So an endangered species maybe but not yet Do-Do'd.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I think there is a great loyalty to Beiter products in this sport - for very good reason - that keeps many of these rods in use. 

The flexibility of the Beiter and the Doinker Quadraflex are what ultimately led me back to stiff carbon rods. I loved my A/C/E rods, and love my Doinker Estremo's even more. After shooting with ultra-stiff rods for a while, I'll not go back. I saw the improvement in my scores, even at age 42, immediately upon switching to the Estremo's. Shot all my PB scores that year, both indoors and out, with them.

John


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## arc2x4 (Jun 4, 2007)

http://worldarchery.smugmug.com/WCu...tage-4/DAY-2/i-Dxk74FC/0/L/WRO_DA1_4474-L.jpg

From Wroclow


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

In case anyone wants to try a Beiter setup...

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2296378&p=1070836989#post1070836989

that's a very good deal for one.


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

I saw that great deal, yeah. But I'm dead set on trying what Bill Levan offered in the Doinker Quadra-flex line.


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## Archerking777 (Aug 12, 2014)

X2 for Beiter!


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

X3 for Beiter!


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## zephus (Apr 28, 2012)

You Beiter fanboys... Lol


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