# ASA capping numbers next year



## Pmurray60 (Jul 24, 2014)

I think they should find a way to expand the event that keeps it from getting over crowded. I understand why they would want to do this but there has to be another way besides turning shooters away. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Pmurray60 said:


> I think they should find a way to expand the event that keeps it from getting over crowded. I understand why they would want to do this but there has to be another way besides turning shooters away.
> 
> 
> I'm sure positive suggestions will be appreciated.


----------



## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

you can only shoot so many shooters on one 20 target course, when they do something to fit in more shooters lots of people start crying because things aren't the way they have always been. Without shooting more people on Friday and Sunday evening it will be hard to fit in more people.


----------



## PFD42 (Mar 31, 2011)

More ranges , most the facilities could handle 3-5 more .


----------



## bgriffin (Aug 14, 2008)

More ranges would make things better, but I don't think turning shooters away is a good idea for archery overall. I think they like the money to much to turn shooters away.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

What are the options for ASA?

Make pre-registration mandatory? Allow for on-line, phone-in, and mail-in registration only. Enforce this for the larger classes only. Exempt those classes that usually have 40 or fewer shooters.

Increase entry fees? It already is getting expensive to shoot these events. Raising the entry fees across the board would cause some to decide to skip some or all of the events.

Create a schedule of "minor league" events? Hold separate shoots on the weekend prior to the event that includes Open C, Bow Novice and some other non-pro classes. The following weekend would include the pro classes, and the higher skill level non-pro classes such as Open A, Open B, and the known classes. Look at the numbers and figure it out which ones go where.

Hire IBO and Regions to develop a plan for ASA. :set1_STOOGE2::jksign:


----------



## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Easiest way to add more ranges is to eliminate the practice range and Sims. Using these targets for competition would gain three more ranges. I am pretty familiar with all of the ASA sites and there is not many places at the current sites to add more ranges.


----------



## MS Skeeter (Jul 24, 2009)

My suggestion would be to split the tournaments regionally and have like a east/west division for all the amateur shooters. Still keep the pro/am format but the amateurs would shoot say 3 tournaments plus the classic where the top shooters from each division would compete. I am sure there are some serious draw backs to this format but I think the benefits would out weigh the negatives. It seems like about 1500 shooters is the optimal number for these events.


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Cap each class to 200 shooters. Maybe this would entice some to move to a more competitive class.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I will be very interested to see how a "cap" is applied. 
Any kind of cap favors the more affluent. Those with more money and free time will be able to register well in advance because they have the resources to do so. Personally, registering 2 months in advance is a non-issue for me.

Will it just be an overall cap of say 1,800 without a cap on any particular class? Will there be a cap per class? The determination of when and how a cap is applied will have a long term impact on the future of the ASA. Right now it's easy to see what customers are wanting because it's very simple to look a the numbers. 

For example...... Let's say there had always been a cap in place. Would we have seen the market influencing the game for the better or would the ASA be shriveling up like the IBO. Archery games DO evolve for the good or the bad. Look at the NFAA's field archery game. It was very popular at one time and in a fairly short amount of time virtually disappeared or severely shrank in popularity in many if not most areas. The NFAA did not want to have anything to do with 3D in it's infancy leaving a huge market for the ASA. The IBO has chosen to not improve upon their product and it's popularity has been significantly decreasing while the ASA is exploding in popularity.

To cap an entry level class may be an ugly mistake. Once a "new" potentially long term customer is turned away the opportunity to retain that customer may be lost for ever. 

To cap each and every class equally is very unwise. Whether we like it or not having the same cap on Open C and Womens K40 would be very detrimental.


----------



## PFD42 (Mar 31, 2011)

MS Skeeter said:


> My suggestion would be to split the tournaments regionally and have like a east/west division for all the amateur shooters. Still keep the pro/am format but the amateurs would shoot say 3 tournaments plus the classic where the top shooters from each division would compete. I am sure there are some serious draw backs to this format but I think the benefits would out weigh the negatives. It seems like about 1500 shooters is the optimal number for these events.


Hmmm ! Paris , Foley , (ms,la,ark) 3rd spot Asa west. Ga , London , Metropolis, east Asa 
Top 25% of each class compete at the Classic for all amateur classes . Must attend all tree shoots in your (east/west) division to qualify for classic . Rotate per month Feb.west , March east , etc , etc. 

Semipro and up will or can shoot all six . That get paid to shoot , so they need all 6 .


----------



## MS Skeeter (Jul 24, 2009)

PFD42 said:


> Hmmm ! Paris , Foley , (ms,la,ark) 3rd spot Asa west. Ga , London , Metropolis, east Asa
> Top 25% of each class compete at the Classic for all amateur classes . Must attend all tree shoots in your (east/west) division to qualify for classic . Rotate per month Feb.west , March east , etc , etc.
> 
> Semipro and up will or can shoot all six . That get paid to shoot , so they need all 6 .


Kind of what I was thinking!


----------



## jlb4410 (May 15, 2016)

Simple fix. First come first serve on choosing shooting time, as it was when Wayne Pearson ran it. Shoot Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon. Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. This allows each class 400 shooters. With the option of shooting Sunday round on Friday. It's your choice to drive 10 plus hours to an event.


----------



## ElliotHeath (Mar 20, 2007)

Cut more ranges. I understand safety, but all you need is a couple guys and a chainsaw to add some shooting lanes. Since you wait for the groups to your left and right anyway, there doesn't need to be a huge distance between targets, specifically on the known courses. The pro ranges should be right near all the tents so people can come and go to watch them. Have the pros shoot at a time where people can spectate the entire round, not just the shoot-off. Allow people to watch their favorite pros for an entire round, without having to walk a great distance to see them. Make it part of the experience. Make it in a field or the practice range if you have to. Side note: What's the deal with poor food vendors? Do the locals food trucks/caterers/restaurants not know about the ASA coming to town? Or are they charged and arm and a leg to set up a space? If you could guarantee 2000 people in the same spot for 3 days, I would expect that most food trucks would kill for that opportunity. And shouldn't the ASA make sure that we get the best product possible? Just my opinion.


----------



## jlb4410 (May 15, 2016)

ElliotHeath said:


> Cut more ranges. I understand safety, but all you need is a couple guys and a chainsaw to add some shooting lanes. Since you wait for the groups to your left and right anyway, there doesn't need to be a huge distance between targets, specifically on the known courses. The pro ranges should be right near all the tents so people can come and go to watch them. Have the pros shoot at a time where people can spectate the entire round, not just the shoot-off. Allow people to watch their favorite pros for an entire round, without having to walk a great distance to see them. Make it part of the experience. Make it in a field or the practice range if you have to. Side note: What's the deal with poor food vendors? Do the locals food trucks/caterers/restaurants not know about the ASA coming to town? Or are they charged and arm and a leg to set up a space? If you could guarantee 2000 people in the same spot for 3 days, I would expect that most food trucks would kill for that opportunity. And shouldn't the ASA make sure that we get the best product possible? Just my opinion.


Yes adding ranges will fix the problem but it creates another issue. You will have to flight base on what range you shoot as they are doing for C class in Kentucky. I'm not ok with that. I want to compete against all the shooters in my class on the same range.


----------



## sandrus (Dec 17, 2013)

A cap is ridiculous. That would be like a business owner saying, "I only want to grow my business to this point then maintain that." It doesn't work, before long that business is history. More ranges doesn't work. As mentioned I would only want to compete against those who shoot the same range as I do. Flights will help some. I think divisions or circuits, such as a East and West or North and South will be what we see before much longer.


----------



## Laars (Apr 26, 2015)

Maybe its time to spread the classes out over two weekends. Beginners /amateur classes one weekend, and the advanced and pros the next weekend. The schedule is spread out enough to handle it.


----------



## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

jlb4410 said:


> Simple fix. First come first serve on choosing shooting time, as it was when Wayne Pearson ran it. Shoot Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon. Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. This allows each class 400 shooters. With the option of shooting Sunday round on Friday. It's your choice to drive 10 plus hours to an event.


I have said the exact same thing on other threads...this is the correct way to fix the issue, the only reason the ASA would not do this is because they wouldn't be able to hurry home Sunday. This is a business that is conducted 6 weeks of the year out of 52 weeks they can wrap up the event on Monday to accommodate the growth in their business.


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I think shooting Friday evening and Sunday evening would help a lot.


----------



## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

jlb4410 said:


> Simple fix. First come first serve on choosing shooting time, as it was when Wayne Pearson ran it. Shoot Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon. Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. This allows each class 400 shooters. With the option of shooting Sunday round on Friday. It's your choice to drive 10 plus hours to an event.


I agree with this 100%. This would also force more shooters to register early to get the good shoot times.


----------



## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Elliot (770) 795-0232 is the ASA's number if you want to call and volunteer you and your chainsaw. Not many of you realize that most of the venues are at capacity. The other thing some of you don't realize is that some of the staff are on site working for a week before you show up(Cutting every lane you shoot). I shot in the Pearson days with Sunday afternoon times and it sucked. BTW in the Pearson days ASA drew far less shooters and had smaller venues than today.


----------



## jlb4410 (May 15, 2016)

Far less? Open A pushed 400 shooters back then and it was cut off at 400! Why does it suck to shoot Sunday afternoon? It's your choice to drive 10+ hours to an archery tournament.


----------



## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

jlb4410 said:


> Far less? Open A pushed 400 shooters back then and it was cut off at 400! Why does it suck to shoot Sunday afternoon? It's your choice to drive 10+ hours to an archery tournament.


Why not make a Friday afternoon round instead of a Sunday afternoon round ?


----------



## jlb4410 (May 15, 2016)

Huntin Hard said:


> Why not make a Friday afternoon round instead of a Sunday afternoon round ?


That is what I said, you will still have option to shoot your Sunday round on Friday.


----------



## math1963 (Apr 9, 2014)

Franchise the ASA and create a Central US and Western US circuit.


----------



## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Here is a good article showing the financial impact of the cities that host ASA tournaments !
https://www.eparisextra.com/all-bus...nefit-of-asa-archery-tournament-tour-de-paris

So with this type of impact the cities should have employees standing in line with chainsaws wanting to cut more shooting lanes!


----------



## clifflowe (Sep 29, 2007)

Would it be faster to shoot 30 targets with 4 shooters in each group rather than 20 targets with 6 shooters in each group. If it would be reasonable to have 30 targets for one range instead 20, then 2 ranges of 30 targets each with 4 shooters in each group would allow 240 shooters to compete. The "even" score for each range would then be 300 instead of 200. Shooters would also be able to shoot 60 arrows for score rather than 40. I hope my math is correct. Multiple locations may become necessary. Anyway, as Rod Serling said, this is up for your consideration.
Thanks 
Cliff


----------



## N&N Waterfowl (Jul 14, 2015)

From my experience at the last two shoots the issues were two fold. Part one was the overall number of shooter (which I think is great)...the second part was the huge jump in attendance which mainly were shooters not pre-registering. It's hard for any business to make financial and managerial changes based off of a numbers guess. I don't favor limiting numbers or putting a cap on entries, but requiring pre-registration that closes 2 to 3 weeks prior would at least allow ASA to know exact number of shooters and plan accordingly.


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

math1963 said:


> Franchise the ASA and create a Central US and Western US circuit.


I've been talking to my buddies about opening a Norther Circuit ASA Style.


----------



## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

sagecreek said:


> I've been talking to my buddies about opening a Norther Circuit ASA Style.


they tried that, it was called 'REGIONS', wasn't greatly successful. Good Luck! I'm pulling for ya.


----------



## PETeach (Nov 17, 2007)

allxs said:


> they tried that, it was called 'REGIONS', wasn't greatly successful. Good Luck! I'm pulling for ya.


No one tried it!!! Regions was only up in the North east for one shoot!


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

sagecreek said:


> I've been talking to my buddies about opening a Norther Circuit ASA Style.


The rumor was that Regions started out with $250K and planned on pushing Regions till it started making money or the money was all gone.

Lots of expense in trying to duplicate ASA. They have a proven record that can be used to entice communities to support them. That's something a new start up doesn't have in their corner. Someone said Regions thought they could turn out 1,000 shooters at Anderson, Indiana and had less than 100. Hard to put something together from scratch.

Wish ya'll luck.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

BubbaDean1 said:


> Easiest way to add more ranges is to eliminate the practice range and Sims. Using these targets for competition would gain three more ranges. I am pretty familiar with all of the ASA sites and there is not many places at the current sites to add more ranges.


I suspect areas around the local motels would become totally unsafe due to practice arrows being flung hither and yon if those ranges disappeared...not from the stick bow people, of course.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> I will be very interested to see how a "cap" is applied.
> Any kind of cap favors the more affluent. Those with more money and free time will be able to register well in advance because they have the resources to do so. Personally, registering 2 months in advance is a non-issue for me.
> 
> Will it just be an overall cap of say 1,800 without a cap on any particular class? Will there be a cap per class? The determination of when and how a cap is applied will have a long term impact on the future of the ASA. Right now it's easy to see what customers are wanting because it's very simple to look a the numbers.
> ...


I don't think a pre-registration 3 months in advance is anywhere near practical. Simply not accepting registrations on site would act as a cap by itself, I suspect.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Laars said:


> Maybe its time to spread the classes out over two weekends. Beginners /amateur classes one weekend, and the advanced and pros the next weekend. The schedule is spread out enough to handle it.


See post #7. :wink:


----------



## G200driver (Aug 7, 2011)

N&N Waterfowl said:


> From my experience at the last two shoots the issues were two fold. Part one was the overall number of shooter (which I think is great)...the second part was the huge jump in attendance which mainly were shooters not pre-registering. It's hard for any business to make financial and managerial changes based off of a numbers guess. I don't favor limiting numbers or putting a cap on entries, but requiring pre-registration that closes 2 to 3 weeks prior would at least allow ASA to know exact number of shooters and plan accordingly.


This!


----------



## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

allxs said:


> they tried that, it was called 'REGIONS', wasn't greatly successful. Good Luck! I'm pulling for ya.


Regions did not honestly try that.They failed from the start making promises and not going thru with them
They didn't even succeed in the south so I would not say it due to location


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

To me the biggest issue that asa has is allowing people to show up and register right there because they then have to be able to make adjustments and allowances for hundreds of people who show up and having no idea what class they are going to be in until the last minute. The asa people are masters at making good decisions and making the best out of a complicated random last minute situation.

They could make their life so much easier by picking a two week deadline to register and that way they could put together the ranges in a way that really compliments everyone. 

I really don't think that it would hurt the asa and it would make the week of the shoot so much less stressful for them.


----------



## skiingcappy (May 17, 2013)

Well that is all fine and dandy for some people , but for some (like myself) due to my job. I can't pre register or let's say I can but don't know if I'll make it. Like London I had all my reservations and now I'm not getting to go. 
So you could get a lot of people that would do preregistration and then cancel or have to have money rolled over to next tournament, and then you have courses that don't fill up. Anyway you look at it they just need to add about four more ranges and accomadate the increasing number of shooters.


----------



## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Open A had 400 shooters because there was no Open C. I have shot ASA since the mid 90's and can not recall any shoots in the Pearson era that had over 1200. The Outdoor Trail shoots before ASA may have drawn bigger crowds.


----------



## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

Why not just have local qualifiers that actually meant something, LIKE QUALIFYING ? Instead of an open invitation.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Padgett said:


> To me the biggest issue that asa has is allowing people to show up and register right there because they then have to be able to make adjustments and allowances for hundreds of people who show up and having no idea what class they are going to be in until the last minute. The asa people are masters at making good decisions and making the best out of a complicated random last minute situation.
> 
> They could make their life so much easier by picking a two week deadline to register and that way they could put together the ranges in a way that really compliments everyone.
> 
> I really don't think that it would hurt the asa and it would make the week of the shoot so much less stressful for them.


Since they are in the office up until the Friday before the shoot they could probably allow for phone in registration until that time. Just sayin'.


----------



## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

jlb4410 said:


> That is what I said, you will still have option to shoot your Sunday round on Friday.


This is what I was thinking to one degree add friday for anyone within a division that doesn't have the time to shoot both days or enters late after the 2 day ranges are full make it so they can shoot all 40 in one day on friday.


----------



## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

I don't see how your going to see a for profit operation to limit its profitability.....I don't see that happening


----------



## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> I don't see how your going to see a for profit operation to limit its profitability.....I don't see that happening



What bhtr3d sed! I don't see ASA Capping its numbers, turning shooters away saying "we don't want your money, thanks!", not gonna happen.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

allxs said:


> What bhtr3d sed! I don't see ASA Capping its numbers, turning shooters away saying "we don't want your money, thanks!", not gonna happen.


There is an economic law referred to as the law of diminishing returns. Which means, in this case, that as people become disillusioned with the ASA experience they will no longer attend. Not only that, they will share their dissatisfaction with other people who will also decide not to attend. Look at what happened to NFAA and what is happening to IBO.

I believe Mike and the people he relies on to advise him will find a solution that satisfies a big majority of the ASA fan base.


----------



## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

wannaBelkhuntin said:


> Why not just have local qualifiers that actually meant something, LIKE QUALIFYING ? Instead of an open invitation.


I think this will start an attitude of elitism, and that will kill a sport quicker that S#!t. Everybody needs to feel welcome to attend and experience or it won't survive.


----------

