# Why should I use Easton's 1916 intead of 2117



## robertj (Dec 12, 2005)

Hi guys, as you know I'm just starting with traditional equipment (Martin Hunter @50 lbs), on the last thread some of you recommended me to shoot 1916 arrows and was ready to order some with 125 gr tips and Magnus Stingers 2 blade b-heads. But checking the Easton's software, it recommends 2117 arrows (xx75 camo hunters). Since my DL is 28", I'll get the arrows trimmed at 29".

I need some light here guys

Thanks
Robert


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## Dale Weiss (Nov 4, 2004)

*arrows*

Roberj - I am not going to recomend anything here, but will say this. DON'T hold the Easton arrow charts as gospel. For me, I usually drop a block grouping on the chart and have found the arrow selection listed there to work better. Sometimes it is trial and error. Good luck.


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## bminn (Jan 15, 2005)

*Easton Chart---> wrong for recurves and longbows*

The Easton spine charts are good for compounds, but way off for recurves and longbows. 2117s are better for 75-80#, not 50#.
Check this chart or any of the other trad charts available.


http://www.arrowsbykelly.com/Spine_Charts.html


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## SlowBowInMO (Dec 4, 2003)

I would want a 2016 for that bow, especially if I intended to shoot broadheads at some point.

Like posted above, the Easton charts for stickbows are garbage, usually 2 or 3 spine groups too stiff.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

robertj -

1916s will work IF the bow really is #50. Depending on when the bow was made it can be 10%+ heavier. Martin has had some scale problems in the past.

The Easton recurve charts (since about 1984) have been designed (my guess is by lawyers) for a worst case senario; meaning a very fast FITA style bow cut every close to center. Even in that case the charts tend to be about two spines too stiff. Interestingly, the Easton charts before that, made perfect sense.

When we give recommendations, it's for a "tunable" arrow. Not necessarily the best arrow for a given bow. There's no way of telling that, especially with wooden bows. Once your technique solidifies, and you start tuning, the bow will tell you what it likes best. It may be what we suggested, or a little stiffer/softer or heavier/lighter.

BTW - After you've been doing this for the while, you'll learn how to read the Easton charts, and it NOT the way it's presented.

Viper1 out.


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## Farley (Aug 1, 2005)

Robertj, as already said, you can't take the charts at face value. The reason behind the 1916's, is most people including myslef find them to tune very well in the 45-50# range. They have become a standard go to size for a bow in your catagory. That doesn't mean they are the only ones that will work for you. As long as the arrow length is about 29" it SHOULD work. The 2117's you spoke of have a very thin wall thickness and can bend alot easier, 1916's have a thicker wall and will put up with alot more. If you intend on hunting with a heavy tip weight, then a 2016 may be more to your liking.

Good luck


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Farley -

2117 have a 17/1000" wall and 1916 have a 16/1000" wall. 

Thought I was the typo king around here  

Happily, you're spot on, for everything else :darkbeer: 

Viper1 out.


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## Farley (Aug 1, 2005)

Ahhh crap, I meant to say 2013. After re-reading his post, he never even mentioned 2013's. Typo's seem to be the least of my worries. Good catch.

P.S. I will allow you to hold on to your title a little longer.


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## Hemi (Feb 13, 2005)

I have a Howatt Hunter 50# 28, I have a 28 draw. I am shooting the 2117 XX at 30" and Ive had good luck so far with 125 fieldtips. Now I havent shot BH yet. If I'm overspined what will the arrow do? also BH will do what to a over spined arrow? Thanks for the help!!


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## pin cushion (Jan 1, 2007)

I'm just getting back into archery after a many year hiatus , but it is my understanding that the 2117 is in fact recommended for 40-45 # recurve and longbow. It is listed as a heavy duty arrow at 375 grains of weight, and as some have said is 21/64 wide and 17/1000 ths thick.

the 1916 is listed at 300 grains - I use a 2117 in both my longbow and recurve and like that fact that it is slightly stiff spined , I guess I'm just not that big of a fan of light weight arrows although I do not fault those that are.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Hemi - 

Unless your form is good enough to tune the bow, you may not notice a difference. The most obvious problem is an arrow hitting left of the intended mark. If you're shooting instinctively, you may have compensated for that. You might also hear a cracking sound as the tail of the arrow hits the riser. The real problems are that: 1. the shot will be considerably less forgiving than a properly tuned arrow; 2. you'll have greater trajectory ptoblems to contend with (heavier arrow); 3. There's be a loss in penetration due to the fact that the arrow doesn't tune correctly. You can use what ever you want, but as you become a better shot, you'll see for yourself why it's not the best idea.

Pin - 

Think you've missed the boat on this one. 
A 29" 1916 weight 291grs RAW, add feathers 10gr, nock 10 gr, insert 10 gr, head 125 gr and you now have a 446 gr arrow. That's about 10 gr/lb of draw weight on a #45 bow. The 2117 weighs 400 gr RAW + the feathers etc gives you a 555 gr arrow or 12.3 gr/lb on a #45 bow. That's a bit much for normal people. The standard recommendations for most bow are 9-10 gr/lb, get it? A 2117 isn't a little stiff on a #45 bow, it's a lot stiff!

The bigger problem isn't the weight but the stiffness. The arrow needs to bend around the riser at launch; the stiffer arrow won't bend far enough. Do a search on archer's paradox to see what is actually happening.

Viper1 out.


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

I think a bareshaft test will tell you instantly which shaft is the better choice!
You can shoot a shaft that is too long or has too much point weight and make it fly well, if thats what you want. 
I would stick with the 1916's or maybe even 2016's.


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## Hemi (Feb 13, 2005)

Viper, your right about my arrow going left and I thought I has hearing a weird sound at the end of the shot.

I'm working hard on my form, now with this information on the correct arrow. I hopfully will continue to improve. 

I know you traditional guys get tired of all the questions from us compounders. I personaly want you to know that you truly are a great help and very much appreciated. I could not purchase the knowledge I have received on AT for any dollar amount! Thanks again!!


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## pin cushion (Jan 1, 2007)

Yeap, a great bunch of folks here for sure.

Viper 
thanks for the info, I may have to buy a bunch of new arrows if the 2117's don't work out for me, the one thing in my favor is I shoot a long arrow as my draw is 30 inches, then tag on another inch and I have a 31 inch arrow on that rest and I have been tempted to set up with 32" arrows for the very reason you state - the 2117 is spined heavy . Another reason I went 2117 is I do plan on hunting with it and at this time think most my shots will be 30 yards ( thats 90 feet and plenty far in my book) or less, the heavy arrow I reason will give me some kinetic energy to help with humane and quick kills. I also then tip the arrow with 100 grain broadhead, if this arrow is still spined to heavy I will go 125 grain .

I do value the your thoughts on this though and may have to make some changes if they do not suit me and I have to go lighter spined.Gosh I hope not arrows are expensive anymore.










And let me add I'm not arguing with anyone about anything, were are just talking around the "campfire" so to speak, with me trying to learn a thing or two.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Pin -

Sorry if i came off a little harsh. Not sure where Easton has been coming from, well for about the last 20 years!!! 

Honestly, a properly spined (and tuned arrow) that's well placed will do more damage than trying to stack the deck with overspined/over weight arrows. Simple truth is 1916s and 2016s from #45 bows have been blowing through deer and black bear for 50 years. Well before carbon arrows, FF strings and the wonderful world of custom bows!

The limiting factor with a stickbow is always the shooter. If you can hold a consistent 6" at 30 yds, then that's a safe distance for you. Again, I know very few "trad" shooters who can to that on a regular bases. 

And, campfire chats are fine, you're welcome at mine anytime!!!

Viper1 out.


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## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

robertj:
That kinetic energy calculator is slick, but is of little value. The best and most extensive data about effectiveness of arrows on game is Dr. Ed Ashby's very extensive studies published over on tradgang.com. 

In very simple terms, his data shows that kinetic energy means little and that momentum means a lot. The way to get high momentum is to use heavy arrows. You could tune those 2117s to fly well out of your bow with heavy arrowheads. That would be useful if you intend to hunt large game- say moose, large bears, large wild swine, or medium-sized African or Asian game. For American deer, elk, black bear and wild pig you might choose middle weight arrows, say 2016 or 2018. But as others have indicated above, the lighter 1916 size will do the job just fine most of the time, and shoot flatter.

Me, I love 1916s for general archery purposes. For four-legged game I go a bit heavier in case of a foul hit. Some critters go large here in the West. I use 2020s with heavy heads. 2117s would be a comparable choice. You can go heavy, light or medium- it is your choice. You have to tune your choice to fly perfectly from your bow, by adjusting point weight and shaft length.


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## pin cushion (Jan 1, 2007)

Longbowguy , do you notice any difference is arrow durability that correlates with arrow shaft thickness ? I mean would say a 2117 be more durable than 1916 or don't it matter ? 

I'm going to imagine that the thicker an arrow the more durable it would be for say stump shooting .


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## fusiontrix (Dec 29, 2006)

I'm having to drop two block spaces on the easton chart with a FITA recurve setup. 2315's are still too stiff on a 49# setup. :angry:


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Pin - 

In the real world, any impact that with destroy (bend/break) a 1916 will damage a 2117 and crack most carbons just as easily. 

fusion -

If your arrows are 29" or shorter, consider 2014s from that bow. I've tweaked 1914s from FITA bows in that range, but the 2014s are a better match and a snap to tune. Sorry, 2315s at 29" spine to about #80. 

Viper1 out.


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## fusiontrix (Dec 29, 2006)

Viper1 said:


> Pin -
> 
> In the real world, any impact that with destroy (bend/break) a 1916 will damage a 2117 and crack most carbons just as easily.
> 
> ...



I'm shooting full length shafts. My next arrow purchase was going to be for some 2215's or even 2214's. The spine charts are putting me on the opposite side of the .400 spine scale now.


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