# Wheels on a long riser/short limb bow??



## fuelracerpat (May 6, 2008)

I see no reason that it would not work...Now, would it have all the attributes you are anticipating? I don't think so. The recoil is more a factor of limb angle than length. The parallel limb stuff is the way to go if you don't like a little "jump" at the shot. I think, I could be wrong, but I think that the limb would have to be very light deflection-wise on a long riser-short limb setup and that would quite possibly make the bow very noisy from a harmonics standpoint. On a target setup not an issue, on the hunting setup, well... I won't go there. And again, there just ain't no market for it! Hell, they(the mfgs.)aren't selling any finger bows to amount to anything anyway, so why bother for the few of us old diehards that are still left. And speaking of left...I am left-handed and that makes it EVEN WORSE!


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

fuelracerpat said:


> there just ain't no market for it! Hell, they(the mfgs.)aren't selling any finger bows to amount to anything anyway, so why bother for the few of us old diehards that are still left.


Unfortunately, I think that is the crux of it. Unless you can get the FITA folk on board, big time, or unless it's a demon hunting rig, then the volume is just not there, and without wishing to depress everyone further I know of two small specialist engineering companies in the US, one in archery the other in another specialist field, who have had to give up the hobby work, as the orders have dried up completely.

Now, if you had a decent pro-shop, who could build a few frankenbows as a bit of a side line, then you may have a proposition.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Thanks for the replies, fella's......What I'm on about isn't so much a bow built and marketed by a Manf. for Finger shooting, I'm asking why it hasnt been done, or specifically, has anyone done it, and did it work?.....Or more like did it work WELL??...I'm thinking that limb deflection will have to be really low, just to end up with something in the weight range I'm looking for, for a Hoyt, something like mid 60's , probably...I'm sure that Hoyt could crunch the numbers and come up with something...These good older Wheel bows are kinda drying up, as are the parts...Soo, if a Finger shooter can put something good together from newer bows, then that sounds good to Me...Take care!........Jim


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Jim, surely deflection is the area that will give this bow some problems. 

I still have my 1989 (ish) Martin Lynx XRG, with small wheels and recurve limbs. The wheels (being wheels) don't deflect the limbs anything like as much as a modern cam. I guess if you had big enough wheels, then you could move the limbs enough, or move heavy enough limbs, but then you end up coming full circle to find the job is easier to do with a more radical cam.

Interesting concept though.


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## willieM (Nov 18, 2007)

NeilM, I have changed several long compound bows from wheel to cams and have always lost draw weight. So I would say that the cams do not bend the limbs as much as wheels to get the same draw length.,,willieM


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

I called Hoyt a while back ,and asked a Tech there about putting wheels on my ProTec, with XT-3000 limbs...At 78 deflection number, they told me that those limbs would be about 80# max weight..I had a set of LX Pro limbs, that were , I think 46, or 48 deflection....These limbs, on the Pro Elite riser with #2 Accuwheels, made approx. 52# max weight.....Soo....if I was to build a Wheel bow with XT-2000 limbs, and a longer riser, it seems that I would need a deflection rating of somewhere around 60..Seems like the limb deflection number gets close to the matching Max. weight of the bow, with wheels ...On a Hoyt, at least....Looking hard at the Moneymaker from PSE, and seeing the massive amount of pre-load on the limbs, I dont know if a set of Wheels would even work on it....Thanks guys, for playing along......Take care!.......Jim


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

Harperman said:


> I called Hoyt a while back ,and asked a Tech there about putting wheels on my ProTec, with XT-3000 limbs...At 78 deflection number, they told me that those limbs would be about 80# max weight..I had a set of LX Pro limbs, that were , I think 46, or 48 deflection....These limbs, on the Pro Elite riser with #2 Accuwheels, made approx. 52# max weight.....Soo....if I was to build a Wheel bow with XT-2000 limbs, and a longer riser, it seems that I would need a deflection rating of somewhere around 60..Seems like the limb deflection number gets close to the matching Max. weight of the bow, with wheels ...On a Hoyt, at least....Looking hard at the Moneymaker from PSE, and seeing the massive amount of pre-load on the limbs, I dont know if a set of Wheels would even work on it....Thanks guys, for playing along......Take care!.......Jim


awhile back I posed that very question to the tech dept at Hoyt , wasnt impressed or convinced with the answer , only that wheels wont work on a parallell limbed bow , dint qualify his statement at all , asked why , was told it wont work ....... gotta believe anything will work , performance mite be an issue , or lack there of anyways , but you would have an incredibly smooth shooter


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

willieM said:


> NeilM, I have changed several long compound bows from wheel to cams and have always lost draw weight. So I would say that the cams do not bend the limbs as much as wheels to get the same draw length.,,willieM


2010 Vantage LTD-XT3000, #2 Accuwheel 28 draw at 60lbs=50 deflection.
07 Pro Elite-XT3000, C2 29.5 draw at 60lbs=82 deflection. As you can see there is a big difference in deflection. Straight from Hoyt (801-363-2990). 

A side note on experiment: I have already played this game with the Ultra Elite two different sets of limbs and four different kind of sets of cams with the same riser. All came with likes and dislikes. We even put long limbs on a Vulcon which lost speed. Parallel limb bows like short limbs and conventional like longer limbs. Cams size are larger on short AtoA bows and smaller on Long AtoA bows. When you get so small of a wheel or cam it makes very little difference in the way it deflects the limb. 
However, in big cam sizes it can make a big difference if you relax or preload an cam/limb combination. For example: I put #4 Z3 cams (This is a parallel limb bow cam, which moves limb tip very little and generally requires more deflection) on a Ultratec 2000 limbs and used strings cables from a G cam.5 which was a bigger cam size. This setup drop BH to 6" and AtoA was about 1" longer and the bow lost around 20 pounds in draw weight, but still maintaining the same draw lenght. This bow shot 292 fps just over IBO at 49 pound BW. It shot faster with less poundage than the original design, was smoother with less shock because of less limb movement, I think. But still not the same as a Parallel design. 

Now, as I had mentioned to Maitland when He was asking for ideas for his design line, If you were to put a recurve limb, but flip it over or not on a long riser how would it perform? In one case it would throw forward and in the other upwards? Using the same riser just flipping the limb. DD


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

My brain hurts!


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

NeilM said:


> My brain hurts!


L.O.L..........Neil, it will be all right.........L.O.L.....


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Its going to be hard to find a short, low deflection limb for a long riser with wheels, not even thinking about the cost. Don't you think? Ouch! LOL.
I still like the recurve limb idea, maybe on a semi-parallel riser? Up for conventional (target bow, wheel) and down for past parallel (hunting, hard cam)????? LOL. dd


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Hey, Double D!!...Actually, I was thinking that if anyone on here had Franken-Bow'd a longer riser, with short-ish limbs, and wheels, and thought that it was a good bow, I might just order something from Hoyt's Custom shop...I havent bought a new bow in a couple years, I was kinda thinking that I could just call Hoyt, and order a Vantage Pro, or Elite, or maybe even a Contender with 3000limbs, with Accuwheels, and have Hoyt figure out the deflection that I would need for approx. 60#....I dont see why Hoyt wouldnt build this bow for Me....Basically a Short-Draw version of the Vantage LTD...I think that it would shoot very well...Have to see how much I get along with this old PSE Wheel bow....Take care.......Jim


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

Wait until the new Maitland Target bow comes out!! LONG riser with parallel limbs with a LONG ata!! Rob want's to build the finest target bow built and after talking to him, I believe he will!! I don't know much more about this bow as it's specs are still a secret but it sounds like THE target bow a lot of people have been waiting for!! I also don't know the wheel/cam configuration as of yet, but after seeing the Zeus, it should be extremely smooth and make a fantastic finger bow!!


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Harperman said:


> Hey, Double D!!...Actually, I was thinking that if anyone on here had Franken-Bow'd a longer riser, with short-ish limbs, and wheels, and thought that it was a good bow, I might just order something from Hoyt's Custom shop...I havent bought a new bow in a couple years, I was kinda thinking that I could just call Hoyt, and order a Vantage Pro, or Elite, or maybe even a Contender with 3000limbs, with Accuwheels, and have Hoyt figure out the deflection that I would need for approx. 60#....I dont see why Hoyt wouldnt build this bow for Me....Basically a Short-Draw version of the Vantage LTD...I think that it would shoot very well...Have to see how much I get along with this old PSE Wheel bow....Take care.......Jim


As long as it was a shootthru I would be on board for that. If I am going to give up that much speed it better be the sweetest, smoothest franken beast around. dd


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Lizardbow was going to put a Vantage LTD together with C2's, but I haven't heard from Him to see if it worked or if he needed help? Maybe, he will checkin? Or I can talk him into putting my XT2000 limbs on it? Should be smooth, good speed and a valley if you don't use the draw stop. DD


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## lizardbow (Jun 3, 2005)

So I hardly ever check this forum and I check in and see this, funny.

Harperman-
I've had the same question about using a wheel on a Vantage before. If you look at some of the older tune charts it seems that what you're describing makes good sense. In a way if you're ok with the Vantage LTD's speed then the bow you want already exists. Changing to xt2000 limbs in my opinion isn't much of an advantage unless perhaps your draw length is on the short side.

DDSHOOTER-
I haven't messed with my Vantage LTD much. It shoots really well but the draw length is a touch too short and I'm out of adjustment so I'm still interested in doing a cam swap. I'm shooting the Montega with Accuwheels pretty well so I've been more focused on that. I still am interested in setting up the Vantage with cams. It looks like C2's are canceled though so maybe I'll go cam.5+?


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

Bringing up an old thread to start the creative juices flowing. Moneymaker is a 40" bow. The limbs are about 11 1/2" long. How about having Barnsdale make a set of 14" limbs for it? BH would increase, and ATA would go up. I put a call into PSE, and they told me the longer limbs from one of their newer bows wouldn't work because the limb buts wouldn't fit in the pockets. The pockets were different and couldn't be swapped. That got me thinking about a Frankenbow with Barnsdale limbs.

Thoughts? Jim????


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

biblethumpncop said:


> Bringing up an old thread to start the creative juices flowing. Moneymaker is a 40" bow. The limbs are about 11 1/2" long. How about having Barnsdale make a set of 14" limbs for it? BH would increase, and ATA would go up. I put a call into PSE, and they told me the longer limbs from one of their newer bows wouldn't work because the limb buts wouldn't fit in the pockets. The pockets were different and couldn't be swapped. That got me thinking about a Frankenbow with Barnsdale limbs.
> 
> Thoughts? Jim????


.....O.K. then...I've not been checking in on here much lately, I'm shooting my bows with a 'Hook",(my upper back/neck issues have came back, so I cant shoot as much as I need to to shoot well with Fingers,, thus the Hook) and if i get on here too much, it just stresses me out that I'm not shooting Fingers at the present...Sooo......JOHN....Please try to shoot a Moneymaker before ya buy one...The Moneymaker is a great bow, I had three of them, and tried real hard to shoot Fingers with them, but couldnt get it to work for me....The LF cams on the Moneymaker, prior to 2011, anyway, have a very short valley, and break over just a tad bit harsh for me...I found that the bow was either fully drawn, or the GONE....Just a twitch or hitch at full draw and the arrow is on it's way somewhere...Only bow I ever shot fingers with that I had take the string away from me (Accidental Discharge)...Keep in mind that I shot Fingers with several of My Hoyts with Spiral cams, C-2 cams, and Z-3 cams...The Moneymaker hold great, shoots pretty quiet, is a nice mass weight, and balances nicely, LOVE the grip....You would love the long sight window, and multiple sight mounting holes, John...At Your draw length, You might find that the Moneymaker feel's short....if You did have Dave Barnsdale make a set of longer limbs, it might be a great bow for Fingers, in particular if You went with the newer style cams, such as the cams on the Dominator Pro...if You do go with a Moneymaker, please keep "US" informed on how You get along with it.....The Dominator pro is everything that the Moneymakers is, but better in any regard...Smoother, faster, better balanced, less vibration after the shot, easier to tune, etc..etc..But the price of those Dominator's will make Your rear end sore...I recently traded mine for a Contender Elite to shoot with a Hook.....Hope this helps ya out, John!....Take care!......Jim


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

I spoke to Dave Barnsdale today. He doesn't make limbs for the Moneymaker, and advised against making longer limbs for the Mach 11. Oh well. Thanks for the reply Jim. I thought you seemed kind of quiet around here. Good to see you post.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Why not a 36" riser and short fast limbs? How about 310 FPS and smooth draw.....

http://www.maitlandusa.com/session_specs.html


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I shoot the Zeus with fingers, same riser but only 38" ATA, and it works real well. Down at Redding Rob Maitland had me pull back a new Session, it was set at 54#'s and was smooth as silk, felt like I was pulling 35#'s. It makes my 06 Protec with 4000 limbs feel stiff...


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