# Lone wolf belt break



## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

Had a traction belt on my lone wolf hand climber break today. It was one of the xl traction belts. They seem to be made of a different material than the ones that came with the stand. Fortunately I didn't fall. Just scared me a bit even tho I was harnessed in. 

Anyway, it was 8 degrees when I left my truck today. I'm about 225. Even with my cold weather gear and a small pack I'm well under the 350 lb limit. The belt was new this year. No visible signs of wear...looks like a cold weather failure. 

Anyone else ever experience this? Wear your safety gear guys and gals.


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## bonehed67 (Jan 8, 2008)

Were you climbing or at hunting height?


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

Climbing.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

That's scary ! Glad u r ok !


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## RogueMedic87 (Jan 31, 2014)

Glad you're ok. Definitely call LW. Maybe a recall on those? 


"If I'm cold and wet, something's about to die..."


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah I emailed them tonight. I'll call them tomorrow as well. Let you guys know what I find out. Hopefully they have some answers.


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## mccoppinb (Aug 14, 2012)

In.

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## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

Eek!

How did you climb back down?


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

That what I was worried about when I saw the belt. I thought in cold temperature they might get hard and crack very easily. But never saw any recall or thread about so I bought XOP anyway.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

It was more than likely from the angle of the belt while you where climbing, If the belt hangs up a little while you are
climbing it can put a really sharp bend in it where it comes out of the frame of the stand.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

But this cable suppose to have steel cables in it for strength. How is it possible that they broke also?


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## mplane72 (Apr 18, 2010)

Glad your OK. Would like to know if it was top or bottom section and where it broke? Meaning coming out of the tube or close to it or on the back side of tree? Thanks.


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

mplane72 said:


> Glad your OK. Would like to know if it was top or bottom section and where it broke? Meaning coming out of the tube or close to it or on the back side of tree? Thanks.


It was the cable in the upper section. It broke right about where the belt exits the aluminum tube. I would say there wasn't any extreme angles on the belt. With the upper section I'm able to see if the belt got hung up or not relatively easily. Just flat out broke. Can see the steel wires in the plastic...sounded like a stick snapping when it broke.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

Man that's worrisome for sure! Glad you didn't get hurt when it let go. Even though it doesn't get quite that cold here in VA it still makes me hope they can redesign those belts. Maybe stronger cables inside? I don't know. My favorite climber is a LW sit and climb, but maybe when the temps drop I'll be using my Summit.


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## mplane72 (Apr 18, 2010)

benz1978 said:


> It was the cable in the upper section. It broke right about where the belt exits the aluminum tube. I would say there wasn't any extreme angles on the belt. With the upper section I'm able to see if the belt got hung up or not relatively easily. Just flat out broke. Can see the steel wires in the plastic...sounded like a stick snapping when it broke.


Thanks, I could see extreme cold getting to the plastic but not the cables inside. Don't see how they could shear so quick like that. Be interesting to see what LW says.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

mplane72 said:


> Thanks, I could see extreme cold getting to the plastic but not the cables inside. Don't see how they could shear so quick like that. Be interesting to see what LW says.


Can't help but question why anybody puts their trust in this 25' up a tree, being at hot or cold temps.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Boy I would hate to know what would have happened if it was a sit & climb. WOW. Glad you didn't get hurt.


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## wvmountaineers (Jan 4, 2009)

As soon as i saw those belts, i ruled out lone wolf climbers. I know anything can break/fail but those dont look like something i want my life to depend on.

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

Scary! Always wear a harness guys! I'm in Peoria too, I assume you know LW is in Kickapoo, only a couple minutes west. I'd drive over there today and have a chat. Please report back what they say for all of us that use LW too.


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## Willie Mathews (Feb 8, 2015)

I've used Summit for 15 years. I just bought a LW Flip-Top a month ago & have been loving it "on the sit". This is gonna make me a tad weary of it now. I never climb without my safety harness tethered to the tree. Still don't need any surprises like that though...glad you're ok. Need better steel inside the plastic if you ask me. I would be fine with a couple more lb of weight added to the stand to ensure cable design is fail-proof. I haven't heard of a Summit cable ever breaking.


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## ladderstand (Nov 1, 2010)

I'm in on this as well. I used my Dad's new Wide Sit and Climb last weekend and loved it. I am planning on buying one for myself this week. I am interested to see how LW takes care of this. Glad you are okay.


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

Yikes!!! I'm glad you are ok!!!


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## DanBlacksher (Jan 21, 2007)

I had the same thing happen with the xl traction belt. On the platform portion lucky I was at the base of the tree. I will be buying a summit or something different next climber. The stand has been great, and I still use it just not with the xl belts.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I have a question. Was the tree wider then the seat/platform itself and you both used XL belt? I'm not good at drawings so I hope it will explain a little. The black circle represents a tree trunk looking down from top of the tree.
View attachment 3561225


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## temujen (Dec 2, 2014)

Holy crap! I have a Lone Wolf Hand-Climber II that I bought/used for the first time this year - i'm a svelte 160 lbs. but still...


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## Bowhuntertim (Jun 4, 2006)

That should just never happen, period. With all the modern materials out there, those straps should hold thousands of pounds. I was always a little leery of lone wolf because of those belts and now there's no way I'd ever go up a tree in one after seeing this unless they do a massive recall and address the issue.


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## El Chupacabra (Mar 18, 2010)

Let's is know what LW says please. Even though I have never had a problem with my lone wolf, I am a little worried because it only takes once to have a nasty fall.

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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

Outsider said:


> I have a question. Was the tree wider then the seat/platform itself and you both used XL belt? I'm not good at drawings so I hope it will explain a little. The black circle represents a tree trunk looking down from top of the tree.
> View attachment 3561225


Yes, I would say the tree was wider than the platform. It was a big tree, hence the XL traction belt. Certainly within the limits of the belt though. The red arrows were hidden within the aluminum tube as indicated by the safety labels on the back of the traction belt.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I considered this scenario because if it was like you said then the tube sharp edge was cutting on the belt probably. But anyway it should not break. Lone Wolf should test the climber and belt for this kind of scenario. I wonder what they are going to say about it.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

I make all kinds of belts like that at work but nothing for any treestand manufactures. It looks like those might be a variant of Gates Polychain belts made with urethane and steel cord. Bad idea for something that lives it's life in the outdoors. Over time the urethane can crack from UV light, stress and cold and then rain water can corrode the steel to cause the breakage. Better materials would be a high modulus rubber and carbon fiber tension member instead of the steel cord. I also use steel cord in some of the belts I make. The carbon fiber cord belts are much lighter in physical weight than the steel cord belts with about the same or better strength. A lot of the belts we make with carbon cord go on final drive motorcycle applications.


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

AGREE! I just sent Lone Wolf an e-mail in reference to this issue. Their response will be critical to me purchasing their product. I would suggest anyone using or considering lone wolf in the future to do the same.


Bowhuntertim said:


> That should just never happen, period. With all the modern materials out there, those straps should hold thousands of pounds. I was always a little leery of lone wolf because of those belts and now there's no way I'd ever go up a tree in one after seeing this unless they do a massive recall and address the issue.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

Is it possible that the OP has been setting up his climber on the same tree multiple times and this repeated pressure and unnatural angle of the belt where it comes out of the tuning has failed over time? Not saying it an excuse for breaking rather trying to find the reason.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

This is why I only use a summit climber 4000lb steel cable ! That is scary stuff , it's not worth it to me to even consider a lw !


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## Rupypug (Oct 24, 2006)

Never have seen that before, glad you are ok


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

Whoa, scary


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## Zach75 (Sep 8, 2014)

My lone wolf has always been my favorite climber and far superior in many categories, but those belts always make me leery when I see them twisted as they come out of the tube. Please let us know what Lone Wolf's response is.


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

So far, LW has been very responsive to my email. Talked to Jared today (President?). He has offered to replace the belt and has asked for the belt so that he can have it analyzed. I live in Peoria area and I'm only about 30 mins from them. Planning to take the belt to them today after work. I'll keep you posted on the feedback. So far, I'm pleased with their attention to this matter.

Couple of comments for those following the thread. This was a big tree, but definitely within the safe operating limits of the belt. Both red arrows were inside the aluminum tubing. This was the first time I had hunted in this tree and likely the first time I've ever hunted a tree this big. I would suspect this was the first time I'd ever engaged this section of the belt prior to this weekend. Perhaps I managed to stress this section of the belt for the first time and it was defective and failed. Certainly, that could be a root cause beyond that of a cold weather failure. Jared did mention that they run specific tests on these traction belts in much more extreme temperatures and workloads. Secondly, I wasn't bouncing up / down or putting high dynamic load on the belt in anyway. Realize, this was the belt on the upper section of the stand. The only force this part of the stand sees is when I'm resting my elbows on it and pulling the bottom up the tree. This is precisely what I was doing when it broke. Fortunately, it broke before I had a chance to disengage the bottom platform from the tree. 

Lastly, this isn't intended to be a LW bashing post. More of an awareness and safety reminder for you all. Also wanted to know if this had happened to anyone else to understand how prevalent this issue might be. Stay tuned.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

I remember this same problem either last year or the year before . Not sure what the final outcome was but I remember the cold temps being an issue.
I'll see if I can find the thread if it hasn't been removed


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

Found it. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2143488&highlight=Lone+Wolfe+belt+broke


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Probably this is what happened
View attachment 3563633

I have used my XOP with belt this way and now I'm happy it didn't broke. I can see there is a lot of stress in that spot but thought it's okay. Next time I will check the manual and after work I'm going to inspect my belt.


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## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

That is absolutely terrifying...
Thank goodness you had a harness on...


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

Outsider said:


> Probably this is what happened
> View attachment 3563633
> 
> I have used my XOP with belt this way and now I'm happy it didn't broke. I can see there is a lot of stress in that spot but thought it's okay. Next time I will check the manual and after work I'm going to inspect my belt.


The problem lies in the pitch of the support arms, at least in the one you've shown. All these stand makers want compact/flat packing systems, and sacrifice the pitch needed to keep that from happening. 
Add in the fact of something being that flexible, and it's going to happen. 
That's why I choose a chain. It maintains upward pitch no matter the size of the tree, or what you do.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

frog gigger said:


> The problem lies in the pitch of the support arms, at least in the one you've shown. All these stand makers want compact/flat packing systems, and sacrifice the pitch needed to keep that from happening.
> Add in the fact of something being that flexible, and it's going to happen.
> That's why I choose a chain. It maintains upward pitch no matter the size of the tree, or what you do.


If I knew this before I bought my XOP I might go other way.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm sure they want their system to be different than others, but the pitch of the arms wouldn't be a problem if they used a cable like Summit does. At least that's the way I see it.


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Being used incorrectly 1 or 2 times should not be relevant to why it broke, because if what OP stated is true, the belt is NEW & should hold up under a few misuses considering they are tested to withstand thousands of pounds of pressure.


Outsider said:


> Probably this is what happened
> View attachment 3563633
> 
> I have used my XOP with belt this way and now I'm happy it didn't broke. I can see there is a lot of stress in that spot but thought it's okay. Next time I will check the manual and after work I'm going to inspect my belt.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

I've even noticed on lone wolf's instructional video ( sit n climb) that the straps end up being at an un natural angle when climbing and being locked in. I'm my mind I can see failures at the point where the belt is locked in and can't move and where it first comes out of the tubing. Add in extreme cold temps. making the belts rigid and less flexible and if it's going to fail it would be then and there.
I'll admit that I always try to lock in my LW climber so the belts have little to no twist but seems like there's always some there.


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## jsnole (Dec 19, 2011)

Like to know the outcome as well. I have a Summit Titian and was looking at the Wide sit and climb.


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## VAarrowslinger (Sep 12, 2007)

OP, please keep us updated on the resolution of this issue or any information from lone wolf. I've spent many days 30 ft high in mine the last several years and this is concerning.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

I am wondering if the gray belts are more brittle than the original clear belts? When climbing i always avoid the pinched belts and make sure they are at the correct angle before applying my weight. Still never ever seen or heard of one breaking before.


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

Just got back from the lone wolf HQ up the road. Had a lengthy chat with Jared about the issue and some of the potential root causes. I left the belt there for them to take a look at it. Jared was obviously concerned and asked me several questions related to the incident and use / storage of my stand. I'll post some of the highlights for you all to consider in your own use / applications. 

1. I tend to store my stand with the belts drawn down into the tubes and then I would use the bungee to collapse the resulting belt arc from my belts down and keep it from hanging up on branches / etc when I'm walking in. He suggested that this can contribute to unnecessary belt fatigue and recommended that I remove the belts from the stand tubes and bend them in less severe arc and then just bungee them / strap them onto the climber. He didn't suggest that this was the cause of the break but just offered some general advice.
2. Avoid leaving one side of the belt in the same place repeatedly and only adjusting one side of the belt. This again, can create premature fatigue on the belt, particularly on the side that is never adjusted. Suggestion #1 above, will minimize the likelihood of this happening as well.
3. More obvious suggestions included not putting the stand in any situation where belts might be bent at severe angles (improper climbing, resting it on the belts, letting it bang around in the back of a pickup, closing a tailgate down onto the belts, etc.) 
4. Replace your belts regularly per the mfg recommendation (even if they look fine).

The belts on my stand were < 1 year old. There were no obvious signs of previous damage other than normal wear and tear. Shy of some testing that may or may not bear logical answers, all we know at this point is that the belt failed and it shouldn't have. To Jared's credit, he did replace the belts (both of them) and then gave my tree stand a very thorough inspection to make sure there weren't any obvious issues with it. We did find that some of the edges of the aluminum tubes on my stand were sharper than the stock stands he had. With my permission, he relieved the edge of the tubes slightly to eliminate the sharp edges. I would recommend you all do the same. The newer stands are powder coated and this seems to lessen the sharpness of the tube ends (vs. my anodized tubes). Again, not suggesting that this caused my breakage, just more common sense precautionary actions. 

Overall, the experience was scary and I feel fortunate that all I got out of this was a good scare. I'm happy with the way Jared and LW handled it. I should be hearing back on the results of their belt testing once they've completed that process. I'm hopeful they discover an issue with the belt and that my particular belt was an anomaly. I'll keep you all posted.

In the meanwhile, stay safe out there guys. Stay strapped in at all times. Issues like this aren't isolated to a single manufacturer. For me, I'll be back up in my LW climber and assault hang-on in October (opening season).


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

Thanks for the update. Final answers to the failure will be interesting, but in the mean time this just firms up why I hook up from the time I leave the ground until I get back. You just NEVER KNOW when a mechanical failure can occur.


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## fountain (Jan 10, 2009)

do the grey belts have as much steel cable in them as the original clear ones? I just don't see how one of the original clear ones could fail/break. ive never seen a grey belt in person, so I cant compare


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

fountain said:


> do the grey belts have as much steel cable in them as the original clear ones? I just don't see how one of the original clear ones could fail/break. ive never seen a grey belt in person, so I cant compare


I can't comment on the clear belts because I don't have them. I thought my original length belts were different than my XLs but upon further review they were identical. Just different lengths. Jared confirmed this in their warehouse as well by showing me their stock of belts and explaining that the same supplier provides both from the same material. It's just cut to different lengths. 

I don't believe lone wolf has used the clear belts for a while. If your stand has them, perhaps a belt swap may make sense as part of the maintenance and upkeep. Either way...be safe. Old belts...new belts...plastic and steel reinforced vs steel cables vs chain...don't put your life on the line. Stay strapped in at all times.


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## jhall239 (Oct 4, 2011)

Tagged in cuzz I have one of these and am interested
OP glad all worked out


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

I have researched this topic to death while trying to find the safest treestand out there. There is numerous Summit Treestand failures on the web to read about too. Here is an example of one https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=35&t=470093

If Lone Wold could come up with a better belt, then that would fix this issue. I've yet to find a bullet proof Treestand out there. *If there is one, one that has been around for several years, then honestly, please post up the link to them, as I'd love to know what it is.* Staying attached to that tree with a Harness tightly seems to be the best advice and action. Very cold temps seem to be the common issue with the LW belts breaking. We need a Safety Zone Forum here on AT to catalog all of these issues, as it could save lives I'd think. 



va limbhanger said:


> Man that's worrisome for sure! Glad you didn't get hurt when it let go. Even though it doesn't get quite that cold here in VA it still makes me hope they can redesign those belts. Maybe stronger cables inside? I don't know. My favorite climber is a LW sit and climb, but maybe when the temps drop I'll be using my Summit.


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## Willie Mathews (Feb 8, 2015)

My stand stays out in my un-insulated garage. Should I pull the cables and store them in my house? BS to have to baby a stand like that. They need a better cable system if you ask me...


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

Kevin2 said:


> I have researched this topic to death while trying to find the safest treestand out there. There is numerous Summit Treestand failures on the web to read about too. Here is an example of one https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=35&t=470093
> 
> If Lone Wold could come up with a better belt, then that would fix this issue. I've yet to find a bullet proof Treestand out there. *If there is one, one that has been around for several years, then honestly, please post up the link to them, as I'd love to know what it is.* Staying attached to that tree with a Harness tightly seems to be the best advice and action. Very cold temps seem to be the common issue with the LW belts breaking. We need a Safety Zone Forum here on AT to catalog all of these issues, as it could save lives I'd think.


No link, but my home made chain system saw it's 16th season this year.


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## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

I have seen 2-3 of these threads on AT in the past 7 years I have been on this site.

There are a lot of lone wolf climbers out there. I personally love mine.

I am not a big fan of the belts though.

I think instead of cables inside the belt there should be a 1/2 wide peice of Spring steel embedded in there. Should be stronger and it will keep its shape making it easier to climb.


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## shaftcaster (Dec 9, 2004)

I've got more then 12yrs. on my LW belts and use the climber exclusively. Never had a problem, same goes for my brother and several friends.


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## 573mms (Jan 23, 2014)

If that's the case it sounds like he should of suggested you by a Summit just to be safe.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

enkriss said:


> I have seen 2-3 of these threads on AT in the past 7 years I have been on this site.
> 
> There are a lot of lone wolf climbers out there. I personally love mine.
> 
> ...


I don't think they make that belt or either design it. Probably they just found it and then used it on their climber. I think LW need to come up with their own belt and start making it themselves


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## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

*Best reason to wear a harness while climbing up or down. It can and will happen with any stand.*


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

2nd thread in 2 year about this. Looks like lone wolf needs some better quality control. Being American made and all, this kind of stuff just doesn't happen. The stand looks pretty though. 

Op I'm glad your weren't hurt.


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Excellent idea on the spring steel belt!! Maybe a new tree stand design in the making. I did hear XOP went w/ a wider belt on their climbers. Maybe a sign of things to come.


enkriss said:


> I have seen 2-3 of these threads on AT in the past 7 years I have been on this site.
> 
> There are a lot of lone wolf climbers out there. I personally love mine.
> 
> ...


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## 1canvas (Mar 29, 2009)

wvmountaineers said:


> As soon as i saw those belts, i ruled out lone wolf climbers. I know anything can break/fail but those dont look like something i want my life to depend on.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk


This is the second thread I seen on the LW belt breaking. There is no reason to assume such a risk. I don't care what temp or what angle this should not happen.


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## E-2 (Sep 6, 2011)

enkriss said:


> I have seen 2-3 of these threads on AT in the past 7 years I have been on this site.
> 
> There are a lot of lone wolf climbers out there. I personally love mine.
> 
> ...


This type of design would also make it much easier to climb loose bark trees and trees with knots and bumps.


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## BlindBuck (Feb 7, 2009)

shaftcaster said:


> I've got more then 12yrs. on my LW belts and use the climber exclusively. Never had a problem, same goes for my brother and several friends.


Pretty much the same here. Have the orginal belts from about a decade ago. Now reading this thread I'm not sure if I should replace them or not.(since the are the clear ones.) I do keep my straps out of the stand pretty far creating a big loop when packing it and when storing it for the season they are taken completely out.

OP glad you're okay and were not seriously injured or worse.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

Glad you're ok, OP. Not sure I could trust that stand again after that!


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## 573mms (Jan 23, 2014)

benz1978 said:


> Just got back from the lone wolf HQ up the road. Had a lengthy chat with Jared about the issue and some of the potential root causes. I left the belt there for them to take a look at it. Jared was obviously concerned and asked me several questions related to the incident and use / storage of my stand. I'll post some of the highlights for you all to consider in your own use / applications.
> 
> 1. I tend to store my stand with the belts drawn down into the tubes and then I would use the bungee to collapse the resulting belt arc from my belts down and keep it from hanging up on branches / etc when I'm walking in. He suggested that this can contribute to unnecessary belt fatigue and recommended that I remove the belts from the stand tubes and bend them in less severe arc and then just bungee them / strap them onto the climber. He didn't suggest that this was the cause of the break but just offered some general advice.
> 2. Avoid leaving one side of the belt in the same place repeatedly and only adjusting one side of the belt. This again, can create premature fatigue on the belt, particularly on the side that is never adjusted. Suggestion #1 above, will minimize the likelihood of this happening as well.
> ...


I can't believe the owner of lone wolf suggested all this. It don't really sound like he has much faith in them either.


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## thwacker (Dec 25, 2009)

Coming from the factory.............telling you guys to watch belt fatigue, angle of the belt at rest, etc,etc.
They should put some dang steel reinforcement in the belts. I wouldn't feel good at all going up a tree while back it the timber in one of those stands if it's 0...-10 degrees or really if it's below 32.
Thanks but I'll keep my Summit with steel cables.............not a LW fan belt


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## fountain (Jan 10, 2009)

^ there is still reinforcement in them isn't there? I know my old clear one has little steel cables through it and I just can't seen how it would ever break. They are near impossible to cut with a saw. I just wonder if the old ones are the same as the new ones


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## thwacker (Dec 25, 2009)

probably not


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

OP here...thanks for the kind words all.

Final thoughts before I get news back from LW. Don't want the comments I shared from LW to be misconstrued. Jared wasn't implying that any of those things contributed to my belt failure. He didn't suggest that failure to follow those suggestions to the letter would result in certain belt failures like the one I experienced. He was just as perplexed at the location and clean shear break on my belt as I was. Read your tree stand manuals and follow the recommendations they provide. They know their products and their products' limitations better that anyone.

Fact of the matter is, there are lots of LW stands out there and lots of LW belts doing their job day-in day-out. When this happened to me, I immediately searched the web and found that there really aren't many other documented instances of this happening to anyone else. The prompted me to post on the forum to see if there were other undocumented instances instances as well. As a consumer and as one who wishes to preserve my own safety and well-being, I wanted to see how prevalent this issue was. I also immediately reached out to LW about it. Based on what I've continued to research, what I've gleaned from my conversation with Jared and what I've read through this forum post, its really not common at all. As another member posted previously, one can search the web and find documented instances of various failures from all manufacturers on the web. This situation isn't unique to LW. Hence my appeal for all of us to stay safe and stay strapped in at all times (regardless of your preferred tree stand brand).

That being said, Jared did talk about potential contributors to belt failures. As you can imagine most of these causes involved some sort of situation where the integrity of the belt would be compromised due to misuse (e.g. high dynamic loads) or just good ole fashioned wear and tear. As we talked, he offered the suggestions I previously posted to minimize the chances of belt failures. It's really all common sense stuff if you think about it. If you are slamming tailgates on, letting your stands bounce around in the back of your pickup or doing anything that would cause the belts / cables (steel, rubber, chain, etc.) to be stressed / bent at any sort of extreme angles, you likely won't be doing yourself any favors with those systems either. 

For those of you commenting on your preference for steel cables, know that the rubber / plastic belts that LW uses are steel cable reinforced. I liken it to a steel belted radial tire. I don't recall the exact number and its difficult to tell in my photos, but it looks like there are 7-10 steel cables that run through that belt. LW tests these belts at very high loads and in extreme temperatures. Ultimately though, find a stand that you are comfortable in, one that you feel safe in and practice good safety precautions when using these tools. LW happens to be that stand for me.

One final comment that I hope isn't escaping anyone on this thread. I emailed LW the evening I got back home. The next morning, I have the president of a major tree stand manufacturing company, calling my cell phone, leaving me voicemails and sending me emails requesting to talk to me about the incident. This guy doesn't know me from Adam. Recognizing I lived close by, he agreed to meet with me, he examined the failed belt, he examined my tree stand. This wasn't a sales guy or a service guy or a warranty guy. This was the president of the company. He gave me replacement belts and we spent the better part of an hour talking about how the belts are made, tested and various suggestions for minimizing wear and tear on the belts. We (the greater hunting consumer base) have the great privelege of having several companies like this that serve our needs. LW is one of them.


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## B-RadZ (Oct 14, 2014)

enkriss said:


> I think instead of cables inside the belt there should be a 1/2 wide peice of Spring steel embedded in there. Should be stronger and it will keep its shape making it easier to climb.


sounds kinda like my old loggy bayou! 



I have an XOP, and the belt seems to be a little wider than the lone wolf ones. Least it looks like it from pix.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

Kevin2 said:


> I have researched this topic to death while trying to find the safest treestand out there. There is numerous Summit Treestand failures on the web to read about too. Here is an example of one https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=35&t=470093
> 
> If Lone Wold could come up with a better belt, then that would fix this issue. I've yet to find a bullet proof Treestand out there. *If there is one, one that has been around for several years, then honestly, please post up the link to them, as I'd love to know what it is.* Staying attached to that tree with a Harness tightly seems to be the best advice and action. Very cold temps seem to be the common issue with the LW belts breaking. We need a Safety Zone Forum here on AT to catalog all of these issues, as it could save lives I'd think.


Thanks for the link. I'll be looking over my Summit Rayzor this weekend for sure now. I guess bottom line is no matter what you climb with you need to inspect it periodically!
I think I'm going to also look into smooting out the inside of the tubes on my LW where the belts go in


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## Rupypug (Oct 24, 2006)

benz1978 said:


> OP here...thanks for the kind words all.
> 
> Final thoughts before I get news back from LW. Don't want the comments I shared from LW to be misconstrued. Jared wasn't implying that any of those things contributed to my belt failure. He didn't suggest that failure to follow those suggestions to the letter would result in certain belt failures like the one I experienced. He was just as perplexed at the location and clean shear break on my belt as I was. Read your tree stand manuals and follow the recommendations they provide. They know their products and their products' limitations better that anyone.
> 
> ...


I have talked to Jared numerous times, he is a stand up guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

The real bottom line, this is not an issolated incident, there are a few on the web that are out there, so that leads me to believe there are more that we haven't heard about. These belts need to be redesigned. Seems luck has left a couple of these hunters unharmed OR not dead. NOT sure how many failures have to happen before real action is taken. *I don't know, it is troubling. Wear those harnesses that are tightly tied into treestraps.*



benz1978 said:


> OP here...thanks for the kind words all.
> 
> Final thoughts before I get news back from LW. Don't want the comments I shared from LW to be misconstrued. Jared wasn't implying that any of those things contributed to my belt failure. He didn't suggest that failure to follow those suggestions to the letter would result in certain belt failures like the one I experienced. He was just as perplexed at the location and clean shear break on my belt as I was. Read your tree stand manuals and follow the recommendations they provide. They know their products and their products' limitations better that anyone.
> 
> ...


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

Just so we know a few more facts. Kevin you say it is not an isolated incident. I have not researched it at all and am wondering just how many instances you have found? I also would like to know how many of the belts broke that were holding the platform vs the top section? If people are not getting hurt i would bet it is isolated to the top section belts because they get in the worst akward angles while the platform seems to keep a nice angle or guys reposition it until it does before loading it with their weight. Also would like to know if the old clear belts are more flexible than the newer gray belts? All my clear belts are still going strong. Wonder if any of the failures have been clear belts?


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

Both platforms broke here.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2143488


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## I SKUNKED YOU (May 20, 2003)

I talked to Jared earlier in the year and he admitted his friends belt broke also while he was climbing 5 feet off the ground.


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## TheRiverBottom (Nov 12, 2013)

Steel cable vs rubber belt??? No brainer. Safety 1st always.


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

Bottom line, all these youtube videos, photos, and recommendations how not to use this equipment are irrelavent if you don't use a harness connected to a treestrap from the time you leave the ground, up and down the tree, and back down to the ground at the hunts end.








Picture from 2013 fall and double break on both top and bottom units. Showing that it was broken in the safe zone, as the arrow is clearly inside the aluminum housing.

Lone Wolf shows the proper way to have the belts, but then demostates on youtube on 2013 showing the belts in the "incorrect" dia 2 photo. I've used my lone wolf's for a few years now, and it is nearly impossible to climb with them in the "proper" dia 1 position because there isn't enough slack on the belts to move them up and down. 









photos from youtube video

















Youtube video showing Lone Wolf demostrating how to climb property, but clearly doing it the way that the belts have speculated to have broken. At the 5:20 mark it is crystal clear


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Very good information. Thanks.


va limbhanger said:


> Thanks for the link. I'll be looking over my Summit Rayzor this weekend for sure now. I guess bottom line is no matter what you climb with you need to inspect it periodically!
> I think I'm going to also look into smooting out the inside of the tubes on my LW where the belts go in





Kevin2 said:


> Bottom line, all these youtube videos, photos, and recommendations how not to use this equipment are irrelavent if you don't use a harness connected to a treestrap from the time you leave the ground, up and down the tree, and back down to the ground at the hunts end.
> 
> View attachment 3583113
> 
> ...


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## gutpile323 (Nov 24, 2014)

o snap


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

gutpile323 said:


> o snap


Haha


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## B&C_less (Jun 10, 2008)

Whaack said:


> Scary! Always wear a harness guys! I'm in Peoria too, I assume you know LW is in Kickapoo, only a couple minutes west. I'd drive over there today and have a chat. Please report back what they say for all of us that use LW too.


Yep..just behind the Jubilee Cafe


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## NotProHunter (Jan 15, 2016)

holy ****! those things can break?????????????


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## Honolua (Jun 6, 2013)

i would be super pissed man


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## walleyehunter78 (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm suprised there hasn't been any injuries yet. What are the odds that these failures all happen close to the ground. If this happened to me, I would tell lone wolf to refund my money for stand. I would not climb another tree, just not worth it.


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## Cougar Mag (Jun 17, 2003)

I'll continue to use my Lone Wolf sitnclimb. I've had a few and never had this happen. But I do wish they would revert to the clear belts for routine inspection purposes.


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

Cougar Mag said:


> I'll continue to use my Lone Wolf sitnclimb. I've had a few and never had this happen. But I do wish they would revert to the clear belts for routine inspection purposes.


*That is a good point. However, if they'd just go with a metal belt/chain, something, then this would all be solved.*


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## B-RadZ (Oct 14, 2014)

personally, I have no concerns with my belts.


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## joshtaylor (Oct 9, 2011)

Neither did the OP before it happened lmao


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## Willie Mathews (Feb 8, 2015)

I get the plastic outer for the belts for quiet...BUT...make the freakin' steel inside it bombproof so nobody's belt just goes SNAP if there's an issue with the plastic on it.


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## Willie Mathews (Feb 8, 2015)

That said, I don't ever leave the ground not tethered to the tree. That's the whole reason I went with a rope-style tree strap a couple years ago instead of the regular strap that comes with the HSS. Easier to move the rope up & down the tree. I still don't ever wanna have to be in position to need my harness.


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

Try out the Q-SAFE Treestrap. it is light years faster and quieter then a rope treestrap.



Willie Mathews said:


> That said, I don't ever leave the ground not tethered to the tree. That's the whole reason I went with a rope-style tree strap a couple years ago instead of the regular strap that comes with the HSS. Easier to move the rope up & down the tree. I still don't ever wanna have to be in position to need my harness.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

As I said earlier that is some scary stuff , if lone wolf is a stand up company they need to recall those belts ! This needs to stay at the top so all the treestand owners can be warned of the possible hazard !


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Chit like this is why I keep my fingernails sharp....:cocktail:


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## mplane72 (Apr 18, 2010)

I just got a LW S&C this year and have been very happy with it. I'd be lying if I said this thread does not give me pause. I used to build machinery that uses timing belts similar to these and know of some that have millions of cycles with out a failure of the belt. Of course they're on a pulley system and this is a different application. 

I have often looked at the top section of my stand and thought that the belt does not come off at a steep enough angle. That being said these belts should not break at all. Certainly not shearing clean like we have seen here. Even if the stand is used incorrectly as shown in the manual and posted here the danger should be from the stand not locking on and flipping through. Not the belt breaking. It does seem that the one thing these failure have in common is cold weather. I'll be watching to see if LW has any response to this. I know failures have not been common but they are very lucky no one has been seriously injured yet.....that we know of.


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## joshtaylor (Oct 9, 2011)

I'm the idiot that doesn't use a harness very often at all, sigh, I need to start


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## bdeal (Oct 28, 2005)

This scares me to death!! I fell 15 feet this year (not related to a lone wolf product) and missed the rut with 2 vertebrae fractures. I was very lucky. I just read about a failure on a LW hang on where the bolt that holds both of the cables broke and the stand folded straight down in line with the tree. And now this!! I have 2 LW hang ons and a climber. 

I might sell the climber after seeing this. Hopefully LW will come out with a better belt system!


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

mplane72 said:


> I just got a LW S&C this year and have been very happy with it. I'd be lying if I said this thread does not give me pause. I used to build machinery that uses timing belts similar to these and know of some that have millions of cycles with out a failure of the belt. Of course they're on a pulley system and this is a different application.
> 
> I have often looked at the top section of my stand and thought that the belt does not come off at a steep enough angle. That being said these belts should not break at all. Certainly not shearing clean like we have seen here. Even if the stand is used incorrectly as shown in the manual and posted here the danger should be from the stand not locking on and flipping through. Not the belt breaking. It does seem that the one thing these failure have in common is cold weather. I'll be watching to see if LW has any response to this. I know failures have not been common but they are very lucky no one has been seriously injured yet.....that we know of.


I just got a hand climber......probably will use my hang on if it is below/going to get below 25°. Every tool has its place. From what I read on this all the breaks came at below 10°.

But, maybe I read it wrong?


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## mplane72 (Apr 18, 2010)

zap said:


> I just got a hand climber......probably will use my hang on if it is below/going to get below 25°. Every tool has its place. From what I read on this all the breaks came at below 10°.
> 
> But, maybe I read it wrong?


That's how I've read it too. 

Someone mentioned freezing their belts and seeing what happens. That would be interesting. I bought my stand for run and gun public land rut hunts. Late season I have dedicated hangers over feeding locations.


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## bdeal (Oct 28, 2005)

Does anyone know if the XOP belts are different/better than the lone wolf belts??

Thanks


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

I read a thread stating the newer XOP belts are wider.


bdeal said:


> Does anyone know if the XOP belts are different/better than the lone wolf belts??
> 
> Thanks


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

George Charles said:


> I read a thread stating the newer XOP belts are wider.


I'm not sure that it matters that they are wider, because more plastic is only going to be better if it has chain underneath. Clearly the current configuration is breaking.


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## Mibowhunter91 (Aug 21, 2012)

My older xop and lone wolf belts are the same size I broke one this year and was goin to use a lone wolf belt untill my new xop belts cAme in


Team #20 Undeertakers


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Any body that wants to risk there life or well being on a LW after reading about there belts breaking must have some screws loose. Right now they say it is around 10 degrees
& may be tomorrow it will be 45 degrees. Why would you be willing to take the chance for your family's sake, as they are the ones that will be suffering while you lay in the hospital or the morgue on they will be able to carry on.


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

Mibowhunter91 said:


> My older xop and lone wolf belts are the same size I broke one this year and was goin to use a lone wolf belt untill my new xop belts cAme in
> 
> 
> Team #20 Undeertakers


How did your XOP belt break? Do you have any photos?


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## Mibowhunter91 (Aug 21, 2012)

I might I was lucky the top only broke and it was on my first step up the tree xop was good to deal with and sent me a new set asking for the broken ones to test. I acually think these were the old line wolfs that they were able to sell since they had not started their new line uet


Team #20 Undeertakers


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## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

kballer1 said:


> Any body that wants to risk there life or well being on a LW after reading about there belts breaking must have some screws loose. Right now they say it is around 10 degrees
> & may be tomorrow it will be 45 degrees. Why would you be willing to take the chance for your family's sake, as they are the ones that will be suffering while you lay in the hospital or the morgue on they will be able to carry on.


Any treestand that you go and stand on on the side of a tree can break. Search the web, every single treestand manufacture will have broken treestands. OK, it is belts, 2 that we know of for sure with LOne WOlf, but welds, bends, and broken aluminum is the calling card of most other treestand manufactures. Please, honestly, if you can point out to me an established treestand manufacture that has been in the game of making treestands for 7-10 years that doesn't have a broken treestand out there, then please post it up. Because, that is a treestand I want. I certainly can not find one.


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## little_wolf (Mar 3, 2014)

Wow. I procrastinated on replacing my original clear belts and now I am thinking maybe that was a good thing. I would never have imagined the steel strands inside the belt could sheer like that. Love my Lone Wolf but this thread is worrisome.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

to shear off like that. like a clean cut no expose wires hanging out like a rip.. i dont no, hard to imagine. i guess anything is possible. i still have the clear ones from 13 yrs ago maybe more.. i just cant see that happening unless there is a major flaw in the production of the belts..


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

kballer1 said:


> Any body that wants to risk there life or well being on a LW after reading about there belts breaking must have some screws loose. Right now they say it is around 10 degrees
> & may be tomorrow it will be 45 degrees. Why would you be willing to take the chance for your family's sake, as they are the ones that will be suffering while you lay in the hospital or the morgue on they will be able to carry on.


Do you leave the house much?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)




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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

i would go as far as testing one of those belts is put one in a vise..clamp some visegrips on the other end and start turning it..i would do it but why ruin a good belt..lol..


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

this is a good thread , all lone wolf owners should be notified ASAP of this problem ! They need to come up with something like summit uses , there cables are rated at 4000 lbs .


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

mhill said:


> 2nd thread in 2 year about this. Looks like lone wolf needs some better quality control. Being American made and all, this kind of stuff just doesn't happen. The stand looks pretty though.
> 
> Op I'm glad your weren't hurt.


Read post 110........and think about that sitting in your Chinese version. :zip:


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## Mibowhunter91 (Aug 21, 2012)

Alaska at heart said:


> Read post 110........and think about that sitting in your Chinese version. :zip:


Correct I wonder how many of the broken belts were made in China vs American 


Team #20 Undeertakers


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## ladderstand (Nov 1, 2010)

This product just like any thing is going to have a few duds floating around. Unfortunately this product is hung from the side of a tree. That being said, how many hundreds if not thousands of these stands are out in the woods with zero issues? Obviously LW didn't just pick these belts for the hell of it. I am sure there had to be some pretty extensive testing before they approved them for use. 

And just like the other poster said, every stand company is going to have something like this if you dig deep enough.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

You guys keep talking about 'clear' belts.....are they actually clear or are ya talkin about the yellow belts?


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

if you have a lonewolf stand..look at youre belt..i believe it happen on the top section of a lonewolf "handclimber" there is no way that belt is going to shear off unless that belt is very very flaud.. it would have to be grossly twisted and i had to weigh 498 lbs and still mi dont think mine would break.granted they could have got a bad batch of belts. it would be less common then a weld breaking..


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

zap said:


> You guys keep talking about 'clear' belts.....are they actually clear or are ya talkin about the yellow belts?


mine are so old there starting to turn yellow..


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

^yellow belts^.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

looks like you up graded that stand, mine are a little clearer than that.. they musy have left those out in the shed to long..

they still work dont they ..them older stands are better.


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## Elite fanboy (Dec 11, 2011)

Can happen on any stand. My Summit Viper broke while I was descending.


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## meekinstokes (Nov 9, 2013)

This scares the crap out of me. I bought last month the flip top sit n climb. Loved it until now. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## dillio67 (Oct 1, 2004)

Outsider said:


> Probably this is what happened
> View attachment 3563633
> 
> I have used my XOP with belt this way and now I'm happy it didn't broke. I can see there is a lot of stress in that spot but thought it's okay. Next time I will check the manual and after work I'm going to inspect my belt.


this seems to me the only way that belt could fail that way.....cables are to clean cut almost sheared off.....curious to hear


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## 308ruger (Nov 11, 2011)

Elite fanboy said:


> Can happen on any stand. My Summit Viper broke while I was descending.


how old were your cables? year 4 for mine next season, probably going to replace


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

meekinstokes said:


> This scares the crap out of me. I bought last month the flip top sit n climb. Loved it until now.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


youre more likely to win the lottery than youre lonewolf failing you...just keep tied off and hunt..


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## Elite fanboy (Dec 11, 2011)

308ruger said:


> how old were your cables? year 4 for mine next season, probably going to replace


Wasn't the cable...was the "V" bar that supports the rail. I sat on it and it snapped. I started going backwards out of the tree but my harness caught me.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

dillio67 said:


> this seems to me the only way that belt could fail that way.....cables are to clean cut almost sheared off.....curious to hear


i still dont see a belt twisting that way just shearing off..it just seems physicaly impossible with little wires inside.. everything had to give at that one moment and sheard


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

crookedeye said:


> looks like you up graded that stand, mine are a little clearer than that.. they musy have left those out in the shed to long..
> 
> they still work dont they ..them older stands are better.


Works like a charm.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

zap said:


> Works like a charm.


i think mine was the 2003 model with the cloth seat...that thing is comfortable when you set it right..


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

crookedeye said:


> i think mine was the 2003 model with the cloth seat...that thing is comfortable when you set it right..


i cant be that old..


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

The years slip by fast...:wink:


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

it seems like yesterday i was 16...


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

This cool lady has the yellow belts also.....


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

huh.. i never seen the yellow belts from lonewolf before.,.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

i think my clear ones have a yellow tint to them.. i'll have to look..


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

The yellow belts are -10° certified....:wink:


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

i dont no if mine are the -10 belts are the 35 degree ones maybe thats why youres are yellow..lol


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## brad k (Jan 8, 2009)

F that ****

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## 1canvas (Mar 29, 2009)

joshfkntaylor said:


> I'm the idiot that doesn't use a harness very often at all, sigh, I need to start


It's natural selection, it's a way of thinning out the herd.


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## B-RadZ (Oct 14, 2014)

I have no fear of my XOP, can it happen yes. It can happen to anything though. 

My Loggy Bayou band finally gave out on me this year. I've got a shop fabricating a new band for me right now incase i need the backup.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

I have Lone Wolf and hardly ever use it. Never cared for the belts from the start, and always thought the belts needed improved somehow. Regardless the amount of belt failures, one is too many.

If all owners were to call asking if they offer an improved belt, because of concerns with the current, maybe this will get them moving to produce one?


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## gutshotem (Aug 8, 2008)

It's just like anything else. 

GM knew they had a faulty ignition switch in theIR vehicles but refused to do a recall for over 10 yrs. It probably still wouldn't have been done if not for that attorney in GA who sued and deposed all the engineers. 

When someone dies and the right attorney digs hard enough LW is going to have some tough questions to answer.


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## Rupypug (Oct 24, 2006)

Elite fanboy said:


> Can happen on any stand. My Summit Viper broke while I was descending.


I had a Summit weld break a few years ago as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Damn,i have using the same Lw sit&climb since 2003,i have never changed the belt....it looks almost new.....but i only use the climber 10-12 days a fall...some years i never use it....glad you are ok...Grizz


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

Doebuster said:


> this is a good thread , all lone wolf owners should be notified ASAP of this problem ! They need to come up with something like summit uses , there cables are rated at 4000 lbs .


I'm in 100% agreement about using steel cables like summit has. Probably some issues with patent infringements though. The steel cables stay upright, don't get snagged, and I've never heard a of the summit cables breaking. I've seen where some welds were breaking on summits stands but that is something that could be seen when inspected. 
Having a tree stand strap be more prone/likely to break because of realistic temperature declines doesn't sit well with me. 
I'm betting my summit razor gets all the use in the future unless there's an answer to this.


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## woodslife (Jun 2, 2011)

wvmountaineers said:


> As soon as i saw those belts, i ruled out lone wolf climbers. I know anything can break/fail but those dont look like something i want my life to depend on.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk


Exactly what I thought too. Maybe ignorance but I would rather have steel or aluminum cable. Welds can also break so that's why you always have your safety harness on. 

To the OP, I am glad you are ok. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 308ruger (Nov 11, 2011)

Elite fanboy said:


> Wasn't the cable...was the "V" bar that supports the rail. I sat on it and it snapped. I started going backwards out of the tree but my harness caught me.


wow....another reason to always wear a harness.


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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

Great thread, always, always, always strap in. And for anyone saying that we are crazy for hanging our life from the LW belts it makes me laugh. We are all crazy for climbing 20-30' in the air, trusting a product with our life. Doesn't matter what stand manufacturer, doesn't matter what material, what matters is that you can be crazy and trust the stand but also be sane and wear a damn harness!! I enjoyed reading everyone's comments on this thread, some very smart and informative responses. I've used my X-wide for 5 years now and love it. 

I had an issue with the thumb screws on collapsible bar (seat section). As I was climbing they were backing out. The arm never collapsed but no way I was satisfied. I called LW and a very short time later I had a brand new stand. I gave the manufacture date (stamped on the stand). They immediately told me to send it back. Customer service was awesome. 

You most certainly can climb EXACTLY how it is shown in the manual. This is the reason I said LW has a learning curve that goes along with their product. I climbed I don't know how many times in my yard trying to get the angles right. Before locking either top or bottom in, I ALWAYS check the belt. A simple outward motion with either the feet or arms will allow the stand to settle in at the correct angle. It took me a while to get it right and luckily I got the stand before season. You cannot climb "blindly" with a lone wolf due to the flexibility of the belts. For this reason, they are not for everyone.

I am 6'1" and 225 lbs, not a huge guy but I needed a stand that was comfortable and strong. I can say without a doubt LW has exceeded my needs. I'm in for LW findings also. 

Thanks for posting this, everyone needs a safety reminder every now and then! 


Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## S.Dobbs (Jun 27, 2008)

Have been worried ab this since the first day I saw this stand/belt set up. Glad you're ok. Looks like I'll be sticking with my summit.


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## df06 (Jun 9, 2007)

Glad you were wearing a harness.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Buckstar25 said:


> Great thread, always, always, always strap in. And for anyone saying that we are crazy for hanging our life from the LW belts it makes me laugh. We are all crazy for climbing 20-30' in the air, trusting a product with our life. Doesn't matter what stand manufacturer, doesn't matter what material, what matters is that you can be crazy and trust the stand but also be sane and wear a damn harness!! I enjoyed reading everyone's comments on this thread, some very smart and informative responses. I've used my X-wide for 5 years now and love it.
> 
> I had an issue with the thumb screws on collapsible bar (seat section). As I was climbing they were backing out. The arm never collapsed but no way I was satisfied. I called LW and a very short time later I had a brand new stand. I gave the manufacture date (stamped on the stand). They immediately told me to send it back. Customer service was awesome.
> 
> ...



Where is the date stamped on the stand?

thanks.


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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

I just checked the stand, it doesn't have the stamp/tag on it. The one I bought had a stamped tag on the base. I believe mine was June of 2011. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Thx.


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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

zap said:


> Thx.


Never really looked at the new stand. Only pic I could find of the old one, you can make out the stamp under the orange sticker. 








Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## avidarcher88pa (Sep 16, 2011)

Treestands are dangerous. Always wear a harness. I feel safer in my lone wolf than my ladder stand.


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## joshtaylor (Oct 9, 2011)

No way you feel safer in a lonewolf than a ladder stand lmao that's bs. 

And people trust hangons with ratchet or cinch straps... That's worse than lonewolfs belts. Sh** happens, just wear a harness and it's a no brainer.


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## avidarcher88pa (Sep 16, 2011)

Harnessed the entire time. Like I said treestands are dangerous. Welds, cables, belts they can fail. There are times when not Harnessed in ladderstand, I fee safer in my lone wolf. I agree 100% just wear a harness. It's really as simple as that. Glad you had a laugh. Killed a doe from my lone wolf last night and will hopefully be out at least once more this week.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

joshfkntaylor said:


> No way you feel safer in a lonewolf than a ladder stand lmao that's bs.
> 
> And people trust hangons with ratchet or cinch straps... That's worse than lonewolfs belts. Sh** happens, just wear a harness and it's a no brainer.



How do you attach a ladder stand?


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## joshtaylor (Oct 9, 2011)

I never use ladders and always a lonewolf climber but the fact is I could jump in a ladder stand, swing around on it like a monkey and it wouldn't move.. In my climber you deff can't do that, the ladder is safer without any question or doubt

And ladder stands are attached with those as well except there is a ladder from the tree to the ground, are you arguing that a climber is safer than a ladder stand? I wouldn't imagine anyone saying a climber or even a hangon, up in a tree with no ladder is safer or less dangerous.

But lonewolf is the safest of all in my opinion,-and I'll always use mine. don't see nearly as many of these posts as any other manufacture


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

joshfkntaylor said:


> I never use ladders and always a lonewolf climber but the fact is I could jump in a ladder stand, swing around on it like a monkey and it wouldn't move.. In my climber you deff can't do that, the ladder is safer without any question or doubt
> 
> And ladder stands are attached with those as well except there is a ladder from the tree to the ground, are you arguing that a climber is safer than a ladder stand? I wouldn't imagine anyone saying a climber or even a hangon, up in a tree with no ladder is safer or less dangerous.
> 
> But lonewolf is the safest of all in my opinion,-and I'll always use mine. don't see nearly as many of these posts as any other manufacture


No I'm not arguing that a climber is safer than a ladder stand. All I said was "How do you attach a ladder stand?" You said that people trust hang-on's to ratchet straps and cinch straps but that is how ladder stands are usually attached as well. i know I wouldn't want to be in a ladder stand if the ratchet strap broke....with that said, I do prefer a good ladder stand when possible and then a hang-on and then a climber.


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## joshtaylor (Oct 9, 2011)

Well even if a ratchet strap breaks on a ladder, you still have other straps on the way up to the ladder and the ladder is there leaning against the tree. Seems like if a ladder stand strap breaks you'd be safer than if it broke on your hangon ya know


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## bowman72 (Jan 13, 2009)

I think it is interesting how they say to replace the belts every so many years..... glad I stick with my old clear ones. Anybody ever break the clear/yellow ones? I just inspect them each year and keep using them......along with harness

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## perryhunter4 (Jan 30, 2008)

Are these occurrences of the belts breaking, reserved more to the XL traction belts? I have owned my wide sit and climb for probably 5-6 years now and never changed cables. It still has the factory traction belts, smaller ones. I only hunt with it maybe 8-10 times a year top, but I let it sit outside on a covered porch for about 3-4 months during season to stay aired out and for scent purposes. I absolutely love this stand. Got to be honest, after reading this, I am a little more worried now, especially in the cold. I was planning on using this upcoming weekend when we head out of state to do some late season archery hunting, but not so sure now. Dang it!!
Zap - where did you get those yellow belts? Never even knew they came in yellow. Maybe it's one of their first models/runs?
OP - glad all is ok!!


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

The yellow belts came with the used stand. Its an older stand.

They do not make em like they used too.....:wink:


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

This guy has the yellow belts also:


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

i looked at mine earlier today, and they are kinda of yellowish..i could have swore they where clearer, as the years pass they seem to be getting yellower and yellower kinda like my teeth..


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## Chewey8855 (Apr 20, 2015)

I love my hand climber and wide S/Climb. I also use the drone but don't like how it squeezes my sides. 


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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

Any updates on LW findings?

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## jmythngdmb (May 29, 2012)

Not for nothin but I went on the LW website and saw nothing about this. I understand this a rare occurrence and this particular incident quite recent, however I'm a little uneasy with them not acknowledging it publicly. Unless they can prove it was isolated defect they own their customers a recall and redesign IMHO. Maybe I'm expecting too much too soon though. Id still use my assault climber but I'm always strapped in anyhow so worst case I'm calling for help hanging in my harness.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

What if you drop your phone?


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## 308ruger (Nov 11, 2011)

zap said:


> What if you drop your phone?


For me, I always have a knife on my belt, not in my pack. That way if nothing else may be able to cut the cord and shimmy down the tree. not best case, but not worst.


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## joshtaylor (Oct 9, 2011)

Somebodies gonna be looking for me if I don't come home, somebody will find me hanging there


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I think suspension trauma can kill you pretty fast.


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## B-RadZ (Oct 14, 2014)

avidarcher88pa said:


> Treestands are dangerous. Always wear a harness. I feel safer in my lone wolf than my ladder stand.


I'd agree with that, Ive only ever been in one ladder stand. I feel much safer in either home built stands or climbers.


zap said:


> I think suspension trauma can kill you pretty fast.


that's why you use a ........ haha nah not gonna start that.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

HAVE A PLAN.


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## little_wolf (Mar 3, 2014)

Zap, I bought my LW new and the belts were clear. Now they are yellow like yours that you bought used. They just yellow over time with exposure to the sun I guess.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

little_wolf said:


> Zap, I bought my LW new and the belts were clear. Now they are yellow like yours that you bought used. They just yellow over time with exposure to the sun I guess.


How old is it?


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## JUSS HUNT (Feb 2, 2011)

Glad your ok , have a LW also and am very interested what they have to say , think I'll be using my summit in the cold conditions thanks.


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## jmythngdmb (May 29, 2012)

zap said:


> What if you drop your phone?


I keep it in my pocket while climbing for that reason, I also have a suspension relief strap in my pocket I can get to in case of a fall. I also text my GPS coordinates to my friend and my wife in case I don't come home. (Both are hunters familiar with the same areas) It's not bulletproof but pretty unlikely I'll end up dead.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

i was checkig out my yellowish ones and my extra long grey ones..the grey ones seem to be a little more brittle not as plyable or whatever you want to call it, as the clear yellow belts..

they seem to be harder..


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## Ktownhunter (Feb 13, 2012)

I had a seat pin shear on me. Lucky I was only 5 ft off the ground and my father in law was close by. I had one foot stay in the stir up, so I was dangling upside-down. Lucky for me I was wearing Redwings with a sold sole and tied up tight otherwise my angle would have snapped as well. 

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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

did i ever tell you guys when i fell off that 40' ladder??

luckily i was only on the 3rd rung...


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

All my climbing belts are the old clear ones. They do turn a little yellow after a few years of weathering and from sunlight. None of my climbers have been left out over night. ASnd i always thought the newer gray belts were stiffer which i thought might help with climbing. ZAP all the what iffs in the world can come into play while hunting. Use a rock climbing harness and stay attached to the tree. Best fail safe plan i know of. To the guys thinking ladder stands are safer i call BS. Almost every time i hear of someone falling it is from a ladder stand. They are left out year after year because guys are too lazy to take them done and put them back out each year. Far from being safe.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Boonerbrad said:


> All my climbing belts are the old clear ones. They do turn a little yellow after a few years of weathering and from sunlight. None of my climbers have been left out over night. ASnd i always thought the newer gray belts were stiffer which i thought might help with climbing. ZAP all the what iffs in the world can come into play while hunting. Use a rock climbing harness and stay attached to the tree. Best fail safe plan i know of. To the guys thinking ladder stands are safer i call BS. Almost every time i hear of someone falling it is from a ladder stand. They are left out year after year because guys are too lazy to take them done and put them back out each year. Far from being safe.



Most of the time when I hear about someone falling from a ladderstand it is when they were climbing/getting off or on the platform. I think that most people don't use a lifeline with ladders and if they do use a harness they are only attached when they are in the stand. I don't use any ladders right now but my hang ons have a lifeline for each one and when I get some ladders they will too. I think it all boils down to they can all be safe and they can all be unsafe. I have no problem using a ladder, hang-on, or climber.


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## avidarcher88pa (Sep 16, 2011)

chaded said:


> Most of the time when I hear about someone falling from a ladderstand it is when they were climbing/getting off or on the platform. I think that most people don't use a lifeline with ladders and if they do use a harness they are only attached when they are in the stand. I don't use any ladders right now but my hang ons have a lifeline for each one and when I get some ladders they will too. I think it all boils down to they can all be safe and they can all be unsafe. I have no problem using a ladder, hang-on, or climber.


I agree 100%.


Boonerbrad said:


> All my climbing belts are the old clear ones. They do turn a little yellow after a few years of weathering and from sunlight. None of my climbers have been left out over night. ASnd i always thought the newer gray belts were stiffer which i thought might help with climbing. ZAP all the what iffs in the world can come into play while hunting. Use a rock climbing harness and stay attached to the tree. Best fail safe plan i know of. To the guys thinking ladder stands are safer i call BS. Almost every time i hear of someone falling it is from a ladder stand. They are left out year after year because guys are too lazy to take them done and put them back out each year. Far from being safe.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

my clear belts have at least 9 strands of wire running threw them plus i would trust just the plastic that runs around it..

crazy how a belt can just shear off like that.,.

i'm looking forward to se what lonewolf's conclusion is on this..


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

No, what if's....just recommending that folks have a plan to save themselves. harness will stop you from hitting the ground but what do you plan to do then?


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## RollingRocks (Aug 8, 2015)

Very interested to see the outcome of this. I wonder what the perceived advantage of this type of construction is over steel cables? I recently shopped climbers and ultimately went with a TreeWalker which has steel cables. So far, so good.


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## Red Eye 81 (Feb 4, 2006)

RollingRocks said:


> Very interested to see the outcome of this. I wonder what the perceived advantage of this type of construction is over steel cables? I recently shopped climbers and ultimately went with a TreeWalker which has steel cables. So far, so good.


Probably weight and quietness would be my guess. Not sure since I am a Summit guy.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Seriously, why don't all Lone Wolf owners bombard them with calls, of concerns with the current belt, and ask if they are going to offer a more reliable belt?


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## titan23_87 (Feb 10, 2010)

In for what LW says on this


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

I'm very confident and trust my life to the lone wolf belt design when used correctly. Having said that, I do always wear a harness on the way up and down because accidents do happen. There is no such thing as a 100% safe treestand. Nothing is full proof. Use common sense and wear a safety harness no matter what. Also, yearly maintenance and belt replacement every few years is good practice. You don't wanna slack on something you trust your life with.


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## ladderstand (Nov 1, 2010)

For what it's worth I emailed LW and asked them about the belts. I am still interested in getting a wide sit and climb. Again, there is no 100%-nothing happens-totally amazing-no chance of non breakage tree stand out there. Jared was very prompt in email return and this is what he said to me when I asked about the belts and looking into the recent claims:

_Thank you for your inquiry. Oak Leaf stands by its Lone Wolf brand products. The traction belt designed has been used by us since we first began manufacturing products in 2006. Testing the sample belts has shown that they hold over 3000 pounds in tensile pull tests and are well designed and appropriate for this use. The stands have also been tested by an independent testing lab to meet and exceed industry standards. Experts have confirmed their use of this product is appropriate and safe for the intended design. Our investigation of any claims has revealed that any breakage of the traction belt was of misuse, and not the result of any issue with the belt or stand design. We will continue to investigate any and all claims.

Thank you,
Jared Schlipf
Lone Wolf Portable Treestands
President
(309)-691-9653_


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I bet that same e-mail gets sent out quite a bit in the next weeks......


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

DeathF.above said:


> I'm very confident and trust my life to the lone wolf belt design when used correctly. Having said that, I do always wear a harness on the way up and down because accidents do happen. There is no such thing as a 100% safe treestand. Nothing is full proof. Use common sense and wear a safety harness no matter what. Also, yearly maintenance and belt replacement every few years is good practice. You don't wanna slack on something you trust your life with.


Ok, please expand on the correct use.

thx.


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## BlindBuck (Feb 7, 2009)

Just checked my clear(yellow) belts and stand. All were manufactured in 2003. My guess from the above comment from LW is that 2006 is when they went to the gray ones?

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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

Still haven't heard from LW. Only been a week. I'll definitely post the results of their tests when I hear back. I did go out tonight on the last evening of the season and put the new belts to a cold temp test. 6 degrees when I left the truck. Got up and down the tree with no incident. Definitely took my time going up and down the tree.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

^ you may be a slow learner...:wink:


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

zap said:


> Ok, please expand on the correct use.
> 
> thx.


There is a correct way, so you are not pinching or binding the belt. But to me, it's just an excuse to fault the user, not the design. Those cables shouldn't shear off or all break at the same place regardless how you use it.


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

zap said:


> Ok, please expand on the correct use.
> 
> thx.


Page 5 of this thread covers that pretty extensively. If you have ever climbed with one, which I saw that you have a lw hand climber, then you already know that you can put unnecessary stress on the belts if used 'incorrectly'.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I am no expert but:

I am pretty sure any 'correct' use discussion would need to include ambient temperature since all the breaks that I have read about have happened at below 10°.

But I could be wrong.....

I just purchased the hand climber and only used it once too 'try' it. I need to get out and practice....but its been below 10° since then.

It seems to me the climber will be an effective tool to use here if I know what tree I am going to hunt and have prepared that tree prior.


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## avidarcher88pa (Sep 16, 2011)

zap said:


> I am no expert but:
> 
> I am pretty sure any 'correct' use discussion would need to include ambient temperature since all the breaks that I have read about have happened at below 10°.
> 
> ...


Climbers are Great! Really nice to be able to switch up location and use wind to your advantage. Went from ladder stands only to probably 50 /50 between ladderstand and climber in last 2 years


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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

I've used mine in 10° and below weather, I have also bound up the belts on occasion in cold temps. I have not noticed any signs of stress on the belts, nicks, cracks, etc. 

I honestly feel the learning curve for me was the biggest obstacle. Once I figured a way to climb comfortably it is second nature for me. I am interested in the thoughts about certain stress points, especially coming out of the tube. I feel most of stress is on the top portion so I adjust my harness really close and pay attention as I climb, I would still drop turds if the top portion snapped free! 

I also emailed LW so we shall see if the response I get is the same. 

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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

Lol

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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

yup.


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

Well I live in northern Wisconsin and use mine in subzero temps quite a bit. -20 was one of the coldest mornings of use and no problems.


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## Willie Mathews (Feb 8, 2015)

DeathF.above said:


> Well I live in northern Wisconsin and use mine in subzero temps quite a bit. -20 was one of the coldest mornings of use and no problems.


Are your belts the newer gray or the older clear/yellow?


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

Willie Mathews said:


> Are your belts the newer gray or the older clear/yellow?


The newer dark gray belt.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

Everything we do (or don't do) in life has risk. 

Any mechanical device can and will fail regardless of design, material, manufacturer or country of origin in certain circumstances. If this is a systemic issue with LW they will have to address one way or another. 

I view these sorts of issues as why I always wear a quality safety harness (along with my own clumsiness). I also rationalize that statistically I am much more at risk of losing my life driving to my hunting spot then climbing up the tree once I get there.

My 2 cents worth…


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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

"Thank you for your e-mail, and thank you for your concerns. Lone wolf as you know stands behind its product and we are aware of the incident you are talking about. We are testing and looking into the claims of that belt and will always continue to investigate any situation such as this. We have always tested the products to industry standards, and these belts have a tensile strength of over 3000 lbs. There are always many variables involved in this type of situation, and age of the belts, and use of belts and how they have been handled can play a part, we cannot make any predictions before we have the belt tested. Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss."



Thank you,



Jared Schlipf

Lone Wolf Portable Treestands

President



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## kbob (Dec 18, 2007)

This is disturbing - got a hand climber last year but have only used it 3 or 4 times. Don't like what I see with this belt - my old Loggy Bayou had a steel band and that stand never gave me a problem although folks said they were dangerous. I may pull that out of mothballs and sell off this lone wolf. Curious to see how this is resolved but I have a feeling that "isolated incident" "we believe our products are safe" will be the final outcome.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Send it back to lone wolf and ask for a refund because you are afraid to use it.


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## DeathF.above (Jan 19, 2014)

kbob said:


> This is disturbing - got a hand climber last year but have only used it 3 or 4 times. Don't like what I see with this belt - my old Loggy Bayou had a steel band and that stand never gave me a problem although folks said they were dangerous. I may pull that out of mothballs and sell off this lone wolf. Curious to see how this is resolved but I have a feeling that "isolated incident" "we believe our products are safe" will be the final outcome.


I'll buy your lone wolf. I trust them.


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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

^^ if he doesn't I will!

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## ladderstand (Nov 1, 2010)

You confuse me on this. You start with "I don't like what I see with this belt" followed by "my old Loggy Bayou had a steel band and that stand never gave me a problem although folks said they were dangerous"

So you're afraid to use a lone wolf that may or may not be faulty but not afraid to use the old loggy bayou that may or may not be dangerous based on what other people have said about it which is the very root of this thread?



kbob said:


> This is disturbing - got a hand climber last year but have only used it 3 or 4 times. Don't like what I see with this belt - my old Loggy Bayou had a steel band and that stand never gave me a problem although folks said they were dangerous. I may pull that out of mothballs and sell off this lone wolf. Curious to see how this is resolved but I have a feeling that "isolated incident" "we believe our products are safe" will be the final outcome.


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## B-RadZ (Oct 14, 2014)

kbob said:


> my old Loggy Bayou had a steel band and that stand never gave me a problem although folks said they were dangerous.


I think that was more like the free friendly thing.

I have that same stand, still do. Bought it around the mid 90s and it finally went out on me this year. One of the holes in the belt split upward. I've got a machine shop working on a new one right now.


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## kbob (Dec 18, 2007)

ladderstand said:


> You confuse me on this. You start with "I don't like what I see with this belt" followed by "my old Loggy Bayou had a steel band and that stand never gave me a problem although folks said they were dangerous"
> 
> So you're afraid to use a lone wolf that may or may not be faulty but not afraid to use the old loggy bayou that may or may not be dangerous based on what other people have said about it which is the very root of this thread?


I can SEE the photos of broken LW belts on this site (visual proof). I have only HEARD/READ rumors of LB stands slipping on wet, smooth bark trees. I have never personally experienced either but, if given the choice, I'd rather be in a LB when it slipped a foot or 2 than be in a LW when the platform belt breaks 15 ft up.

My personal experience with both (albeit limited with the LW) is that I FEEL more comfortable using the LB than the LW, other factors such as noise aside.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

kbob said:


> I can SEE the photos of broken LW belts on this site (visual proof). I have only HEARD/READ rumors of LB stands slipping on wet, smooth bark trees. I have never personally experienced either but, if given the choice, I'd rather be in a LB when it slipped a foot or 2 than be in a LW when the platform belt breaks 15 ft up.
> 
> My personal experience with both (albeit limited with the LW) is that I FEEL more comfortable using the LB than the LW, other factors such as noise aside.


The loggy will not just slip a foot or two. Trust me i know. A 6-10 foot free fall sucks. Done it twice and converted my LB climbers to lone wolf belts.


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## kbob (Dec 18, 2007)

Boonerbrad said:


> The loggy will not just slip a foot or two. Trust me i know. A 6-10 foot free fall sucks. Done it twice and converted my LB climbers to lone wolf belts.


Interesting concept - do you have photos of how you did it and how it turned out? No plans to do this just curious as to how it was done mechanically.

Also I routinely use a harness while going up and down so hopefully would not slide more than a foot or 2.

thanks


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## TheRiverBottom (Nov 12, 2013)

LOL. Can't use a $400 treestand when it's cold outside? Gimme a break. 

I see the quote where Lonewolf talks about "tensile" strength. Tensile strength is nice when something is in tension. In case they didn't notice....those belts are under tension AND compression.....not all materials are equally strong under both.


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## Buckstar25 (Aug 28, 2007)

TheRiverBottom said:


> LOL. Can't use a $400 treestand when it's cold outside? Gimme a break.
> 
> I see the quote where Lonewolf talks about "tensile" strength. Tensile strength is nice when something is in tension. In case they didn't notice....those belts are under tension AND compression.....not all materials are equally strong under both.


I don't think there was any mention on NOT climbing in cold weather. I also think the original intent was to remind everyone that stuff happens, use your harness and live to tell about it.....

As I've said before, I've used my stand in very cold temps with no issues. That is a good point on both forces exerted on the belts though. Over the years I've learned what trees I can climb and what trees I can't, or won't climb. I will stick to the learning curve of the LW versus any other stand I've used as being the main factor. I almost got rid of my stand because of it. 

I have also witnessed first hand a Summit Goliath collapsing. The welds gave and the platform collapsed, and this was as he was climbing onto the stand from the ground. 

Anything can happen to any stand/any condition.....

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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

TheRiverBottom said:


> LOL. Can't use a $400 treestand when it's cold outside? Gimme a break.
> 
> I see the quote where Lonewolf talks about "tensile" strength. Tensile strength is nice when something is in tension. In case they didn't notice....those belts are under tension AND compression.....not all materials are equally strong under both.


This !


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## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

TheRiverBottom said:


> LOL. Can't use a $400 treestand when it's cold outside? Gimme a break.
> 
> I see the quote where Lonewolf talks about "tensile" strength. Tensile strength is nice when something is in tension. In case they didn't notice....those belts are under tension AND compression.....not all materials are equally strong under both.


Can you point out the compression? 
There are shear and tensile stresses on the belts, but I can't think of any measurable compression.


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## mthcharlestown (Jan 17, 2013)

Loggy Bayou is about as dangerous as the old Bakers...maybe more so! The steel bands break, I've had the platform leave me hanging on more than one occasion...go ahead and use it...walk through some Louisiana swamps at night if you like living dangerously.


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## TheRiverBottom (Nov 12, 2013)

M.Magis said:


> Can you point out the compression?
> There are shear and tensile stresses on the belts, but I can't think of any measurable compression.


Maybe I'm confusing shearing force with compression? When a beam is bent isn't the outside radius under tension and the inside under compression?


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## tam9492 (Oct 29, 2012)

I have a TimberTall I'll trade for a LW! Seems like a lot of folks don't use theirs often or no longer want to.


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## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

TheRiverBottom said:


> Maybe I'm confusing shearing force with compression? When a beam is bent isn't the outside radius under tension and the inside under compression?


With a beam, you’re right. I guess I’m not sure if that applies in this case or not. I would think the amount of compression would be negligible, but I could be wrong. Interesting question.


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## wildthing (Sep 12, 2003)

I have a 2004 LW it has the third set of belts on it and no problems with any of them. When I talked to them about 10 yrs. ago they said get new ones every 5 yrs. The last set is a newer type of belt so I needed to buy new locks for the top and bottom of the stand. I hunt out of this stand 50 plus days a year it is the best bow stand I've ever used.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

TheRiverBottom said:


> LOL. Can't use a $400 treestand when it's cold outside? Gimme a break.
> 
> I see the quote where Lonewolf talks about "tensile" strength. Tensile strength is nice when something is in tension. In case they didn't notice....those belts are under tension AND compression.....not all materials are equally strong under both.


I can use my lone wolf when its 10° but I will probably choose not to.

:cocktail:


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## Siouxme (Aug 26, 2013)

Tagged for LW response


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## Willie Mathews (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm definitely interested in the final response LW gives you OP. It will probably be some chicken crap PC answer but one can hope that they will be honest. Like one other poster said, I too have been able to climb keeping the belts positioned like their diagrams show, but it takes a learning curve & one taking some extra time to climb. That's the part I don't like. I can safely fly up & down a tree in my Summit. The LW is slower if you try to make sure belts aren't binding. It would be nice if they put tougher steel inside the plastic. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about the binding.


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## pi9 (Jan 2, 2016)

I talked to Jared in December 2015 because I had questions about his climbers. After I Told him I was 300lb he didn't recommend a climber and actually mentioned I could break a traction belt. I decided not to get one of course but have never quite understood why they put a 350lb rating on something and tell someone 50lb under that not to use it.

Instead I bought their sticks and hang on but now am questioning that purchase as the aluminum on the sticks around the peg the step sits on is "stretching" after only 6 trips up and down the tree. Jarred did offer to return them but I lost a lot of weight last year and plan to loose some more this year so hoping that will solve the issue. I'm still not sure they should have a 350lb rating though.

in the end no matter what stand we are in, being tied in 100% of the time is the least we can do. I know i owe at least that much to my wife and children.


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## Zach75 (Sep 8, 2014)

That's unsettling that he would tell someone who is 300 pounds not to use his stand that is rated for 350 pounds. Maybe these belts really are legitimate problem.


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## perryhunter4 (Jan 30, 2008)

I think it's ridiculous it's taken this long for a legit response on the testing. This has me upset as a long time Lone Wolf Customer. I own a bunch of their stuff: Alpha, 4 piece sticks, their hunt comfort seat, backpack straps, sit bar pad, Wide Sit and Climb, etc....I have never used mine in this cold of weather, but now all I can do is think about it. May stick with my two Summits


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

This is OP. Still haven't heard back on the results of the test. Jared did call me last week to confirm he's still waiting to hear back from the supplier and assured me he would contact me as soon as he heard back. I'll definitely update the thread when I hear back.


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## little_wolf (Mar 3, 2014)

Thanks for the update Benz.


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## pyrannah (Feb 18, 2010)

in for the reply...


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## 1canvas (Mar 29, 2009)

mthcharlestown said:


> Loggy Bayou is about as dangerous as the old Bakers...maybe more so! The steel bands break, I've had the platform leave me hanging on more than one occasion...go ahead and use it...walk through some Louisiana swamps at night if you like living dangerously.


To say that a Loggy is as dangerous as a Baker is just silly. I have had a lot of time in both and would take a Loggy over a Baker anytime.


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Any updates?


benz1978 said:


> This is OP. Still haven't heard back on the results of the test. Jared did call me last week to confirm he's still waiting to hear back from the supplier and assured me he would contact me as soon as he heard back. I'll definitely update the thread when I hear back.


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

Funny you should ask. I just sent them an email requesting the same thing. I'll post what I find out.


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## 1canvas (Mar 29, 2009)

I also sent them an e mail after reading this thread and have never heard back. I was serious about getting a sit and climb until I started seeing a few of threads on belts breaking. The one thing that has me scratching my head is on one is seeing the belt breaking on both sides at the same time or on another thread the top and and bottom breaking at the same time. That seems like it would be very unlikely.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

I'm surprised it's taking so long? How much time does it really take to determine the reason for the breakage? Keep after them, you have to start wondering if they are hoping you will go way, so they can sweep it under the rug?


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## Roberthood (Oct 29, 2002)

I'm dying to hear the story on this one from Jared! I've had a lone wolf hand climber for about 12 years and haven't had any problems except that the locking hinge can be difficult to release from the belt in cold weather. I think the teeth on the traction belt expand slightly making for the tight/tough release.

Benz1978 --thx for the thread and please stay on LW for an answer that provides detailed test results.

-Rob


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

what do you think there going to say? "well after futher testing we concluded that the sun align with the stratesphere making the belt break.." apparently it broke, i had a strap break on my watch before..stuff will happen...


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Roberthood said:


> except that the locking hinge can be difficult to release from the belt in cold weather. I think the teeth on the traction belt expand slightly making for the tight/tough release.
> 
> 
> 
> -Rob


You need to put some string wax on the opposite side of the tube from the lock latch with a toothbrush every year and they will operate smoothly.

Not on the lock, on the opposite side/inside of the tube. The belt is sticking as the latch tries to move it into place to operate.

Yup.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

i heard the tooth brush method before...


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

me too.....:darkbeer:

:lol:


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

i dont no if i sould be scared or what..i had a tire go flat on me...


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

yup.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Unreal, well over a month since this happened and no response from Lone Wolf yet? I'm really starting to think this is going to get swept under the rug now?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

What belt break?


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

pi9 said:


> I talked to Jared in December 2015 because I had questions about his climbers. After I Told him I was 300lb he didn't recommend a climber and actually mentioned I could break a traction belt. I decided not to get one of course but have never quite understood why they put a 350lb rating on something and tell someone 50lb under that not to use


Yes, makes no sense, also have to wonder if they know more about these belts than they are letting out?


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

zap said:


> What belt break?


Lol, exactly, the longer it goes, the more most forget.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

Buckbadger said:


> Lol, exactly, the longer it goes, the more most forget.


theres nothing to forget... if the belt broke it broke..hunt out of the stand if you want to...but be advised....lol..


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## 1canvas (Mar 29, 2009)

They have weighed it out and decided to let it go was best for them. I for one would never take the risk of a LW climber until they address it and fix it no matter how remote the risk is.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

ok this is the last time..if the belt broke out of hundreds of times you could be ...maybe i'm saying 5 out of 134,000..but thers always that chance..


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

1canvas said:


> They have weighed it out and decided to let it go was best for them. I for one would never take the risk of a LW climber until they address it and fix it no matter how remote the risk is.


youre so fool of chit..


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

sure theres going to be treestands falures every year.. wants the percentage of you getting in a car wreck...you drive around like youre go lucky..then boom youre dead..

for me i'll never be afraid to use my lonewolf.. most solid quiet stand i ever hunted in..


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## Scope3334 (Dec 16, 2015)

Subscribed. I want to see what the final word is.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

I would think having paid out on a different issue, their lawyer would not allow a response. Just normal business.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

Scope3334 said:


> Subscribed. I want to see what the final word is.


it broke..


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

crookedeye said:


> sure theres going to be treestands falures every year.. wants the percentage of you getting in a car wreck...you drive around like youre go lucky..then boom youre dead..
> 
> for me i'll never be afraid to use my lonewolf.. most solid quiet stand i ever hunted in..


Yeah ,keep driving that car with Takata Airbags, the chance of you getting in a wreck and the airbag spitting shrapnel in your face is slim to none.

The point is, if there is an issue with the belts, it needs addressed, they owe it to the people using their product. Why would they tell a potential customer that weighs 300 lbs. not to use the product, when it's rated for 350 lbs? This don't raise a flag with you, that they know something and are not saying? My opinion there is no way these belts should break to begin with. And mark my word if we here back from the OP for the cause, without a doubt it will be user error, simply to keep their nose clean. User error or not, you think that issue would be factored into the belt design, shouldn't break regardless.

The best thing they could do is come out with a better quality belt, and give all owners the option of buying one. I would gladly buy one, as I feel with today's technology it wouldn't be impossible to make a better quality belt. Where this would ease the doubt of many users, and Lone Wolf isn't out any money. Vs. a possible belt that has issues that might require a recall? If they do come out with a better quality belt, you don't have to buy one. Keep on using the one you got, there's not much chance of it breaking.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

whats the issue? was there an issue? i really dont care what you guys use..i use a lonewolf .


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

...


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

Buckbadger said:


> Yeah ,keep driving that car with Takata Airbags, the chance of you getting in a wreck and the airbag spitting shrapnel in your face is slim to none.
> 
> The point is, if there is an issue with the belts, it needs addressed, they owe it to the people using their product. Why would they tell a potential customer that weighs 300 lbs. not to use the product, when it's rated for 350 lbs? This don't raise a flag with you, that they know something and are not saying? My opinion there is no way these belts should break to begin with. And mark my word if we here back from the OP for the cause, without a doubt it will be user error, simply to keep their nose clean. User error or not, you think that issue would be factored into the belt design, shouldn't break regardless.
> 
> The best thing they could do is come out with a better quality belt, and give all owners the option of buying one. I would gladly buy one, as I feel with today's technology it wouldn't be impossible to make a better quality belt. Where this would ease the doubt of many users, and Lone Wolf isn't out any money. Vs. a possible belt that has issues that might require a recall? If they do come out with a better quality belt, you don't have to buy one. Keep on using the one you got, there's not much chance of it breaking.


 i just what to keep using my inferior belt.. i like to live on the edge...


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

and i have never seen a freaking 300lb guy climb a tree before..


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

when was the last time you seen a 300 lb guy climb a tree??


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

i wouldnt think about hunting in a tree..let alone trying to climb a lonewolf climber if i was 300lb's..


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

do you no how big that is??..lol


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

again you say the ease?? i could trip and fall down..i'm not trying to say lonewolf is great..i have a summit to... chits going to break


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

crookedeye said:


> i wouldnt think about hunting in a tree..let alone trying to climb a lonewolf climber if i was 300lb's..


Well if they rate the product for 350lb and question 300lb, they surely don't have much confidence in their own product, so why should we? I never saw a 300 lb climb a tree, but I'm sure there are some out there that do.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

Buckbadger said:


> Well if they rate the product for 350lb and question 300lb, they surely don't have much confidence in their own product, so why should we? I never saw a 300 lb climb a tree, but I'm sure there are some out there that do.


well i'm sure.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

could you imagine that though....


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

it makes my knees hurt just thinking about it..


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

I am 6' and 200#.....always been athletic and fit. I have a longtime hunting buddy who is maybe an inch taller than me and goes at least 300# who has bowhunted from stands his entire life. I wear a L/XL glove and his hand is like a bear paw when we shake hands.....just a large farmboy who carries more weight. I've seen him hunt in stick/fixed stand setups and also ladders......although I would guess he probably owned a climber at some point as well. We are not talking some obsese 600# reality TV show geek, but there are some pretty normal folks who wear XXL and XXXL clothing rather than the XL that I wear. All that to say that there are certainly some who weigh well under the 350# rating of a LW who are nearing the 300# mark without being a fat slob. From reading through this thread, I don't believe the OP was that big of a fellow and the issue was more about the temp and reliability of the LW belt rather than weight or even manner of use.

I have seriously been considering a climber the past couple years and LW was at the top of my list because I own a LW stick set and Assault stand. Great quality and innovations. However I am not going to buy a LW climber until this gets addressed in some proactive manner. "Stuff happens" or "silence is golden" is not an answer when personal safety is on the line. If I knew my Prime bows had X amount of shots before the limbs blew up.....and that G5 knew about it......I would not shoot them and likewise be very upset. In our litigous society, I would think any treestand maker would continually be upgrading their products and offering the upgrades to longtime owners at a discounted price so they are safe to the extreme. Then a thread like this would be a moot point, as the OP did not seem to come here with an axe to grind but simply to keep his fellow bowhunters informed and safe.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Alaska at heart said:


> I am 6' and 200#.....always been athletic and fit. I have a longtime hunting buddy who is maybe an inch taller than me and goes at least 300# who has bowhunted from stands his entire life. I wear a L/XL glove and his hand is like a bear paw when we shake hands.....just a large farmboy who carries more weight. I've seen him hunt in stick/fixed stand setups and also ladders......although I would guess he probably owned a climber at some point as well. We are not talking some obsese 600# reality TV show geek, but there are some pretty normal folks who wear XXL and XXXL clothing rather than the XL that I wear. All that to say that there are certainly some who weigh well under the 350# rating of a LW who are nearing the 300# mark without being a fat slob. From reading through this thread, I don't believe the OP was that big of a fellow and the issue was more about the temp and reliability of the LW belt rather than weight or even manner of use.
> 
> I have seriously been considering a climber the past couple years and LW was at the top of my list because I own a LW stick set and Assault stand. Great quality and innovations. However I am not going to buy a LW climber until this gets addressed in some proactive manner. "Stuff happens" or "silence is golden" is not an answer when personal safety is on the line. If I knew my Prime bows had X amount of shots before the limbs blew up.....and that G5 knew about it......I would not shoot them and likewise be very upset. In our litigous society, I would think any treestand maker would continually be upgrading their products and offering the upgrades to longtime owners at a discounted price so they are safe to the extreme. Then a thread like this would be a moot point, as the OP did not seem to come here with an axe to grind but simply to keep his fellow bowhunters informed and safe.



Good post, I agree

I know some might not agree, but like I stated already that belt should have not broke, regardless user error or not. To me user error is just a scapegoat. But I do not disagree with many that say things happen, yes they do. But as a society in today's world when things fail, we make them better or improve the product, that's what we do. And to me there's no reason they can't design a better stronger quality belt to offer owners who wish to replace their current belt with, it's that simple. And Lone Wolf would have nothing to lose, only gain, because many would buy them.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

Alaska at heart said:


> I am 6' and 200#.....always been athletic and fit. I have a longtime hunting buddy who is maybe an inch taller than me and goes at least 300# who has bowhunted from stands his entire life. I wear a L/XL glove and his hand is like a bear paw when we shake hands.....just a large farmboy who carries more weight. I've seen him hunt in stick/fixed stand setups and also ladders......although I would guess he probably owned a climber at some point as well. We are not talking some obsese 600# reality TV show geek, but there are some pretty normal folks who wear XXL and XXXL clothing rather than the XL that I wear. All that to say that there are certainly some who weigh well under the 350# rating of a LW who are nearing the 300# mark without being a fat slob. From reading through this thread, I don't believe the OP was that big of a fellow and the issue was more about the temp and reliability of the LW belt rather than weight or even manner of use.
> 
> I have seriously been considering a climber the past couple years and LW was at the top of my list because I own a LW stick set and Assault stand. Great quality and innovations. However I am not going to buy a LW climber until this gets addressed in some proactive manner. "Stuff happens" or "silence is golden" is not an answer when personal safety is on the line. If I knew my Prime bows had X amount of shots before the limbs blew up.....and that G5 knew about it......I would not shoot them and likewise be very upset. In our litigous society, I would think any treestand maker would continually be upgrading their products and offering the upgrades to longtime owners at a discounted price so they are safe to the extreme. Then a thread like this would be a moot point, as the OP did not seem to come here with an axe to grind but simply to keep his fellow bowhunters informed and safe.


i wear a large t shirt..its not to tight and not to loose..

i believe the belt broke..and i dont care.. ive been using my lonewolf for 20 yrs..well maybe 15 yrs.. i mean.... dont use lonewolf if youre scared to hunt out of it..


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

crookedeye said:


> i wear a large t shirt..its not to tight and not to loose..
> 
> i believe the belt broke..and i dont care.. ive been using my lonewolf for 20 yrs..well maybe 15 yrs.. i mean.... dont use lonewolf if youre scared to hunt out of it..


Really. Belts breaking at 20 feet is a big issue if they have a problem with the belts breaking they need to adress the problem ! Let there customers know what's going on ! I wouldn't buy one !


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## pi9 (Jan 2, 2016)

crookedeye said:


> when was the last time you seen a 300 lb guy climb a tree??


You must be pretty ignorant crookedeye....I climb trees with no issues. Just because a 300lb person doesnt meet your expectation of perfection doesnt mean they are incapable. 

I climb trees with no issue and many times its after walking a mile or so into my hunting spot.


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## pi9 (Jan 2, 2016)

I made a bunch of modifications to my treestand since the end of the season, (molle straps, stealth strips and buckle silencers) and so I have been meaning to try it out to see how I like it, I got the chance today. 

Since its so impossible for idiots like crookedeye to imagine a 300lb guy climbing a tree, I had my daughter film me trying out my new setup so you could see this next to impossible feat accomplished. 

Heres the link:

https://youtu.be/PGNAaOLkI2c


(Sorry for it being so long, took me longer than normal because I was getting use to the buckle silencers and also I underestimated the challenge of climbing a palm tree, it was like climbing Velcro, adjusting the straps up/down the tree was a pain and getting the stand to lock to the tree wasnt easy either for some reason, it just wouldnt cam lock down like normal.)


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

crookedeye said:


> i believe the belt broke..and i dont care.. ive been using my lonewolf for 20 yrs..well maybe 15 yrs.. i mean.... dont use lonewolf if youre scared to hunt out of it..


We all know the belt broke, the question is, why did the belt break? The OP clearly stated he was well within the 350 lb rating . I known your opinion, things happen, not good enough. Just because you don't care, does not mean others do not care. If Lone Wolf would ever offer a better quality belt in the future, please do not let use know you bought one.


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

lonewolf! lonewolf! lonewolf!


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

pi9 said:


> I made a bunch of modifications to my treestand since the end of the season, (molle straps, stealth strips and buckle silencers) and so I have been meaning to try it out to see how I like it, I got the chance today.
> 
> Since its so impossible for idiots like crookedeye to imagine a 300lb guy climbing a tree, I had my daughter film me trying out my new setup so you could see this next to impossible feat accomplished.
> 
> ...


i was mentioning a climber lol..i never seen a 300lb plus human climb a tree..but i bet you could do it, you look pretty spealth.. i bet you dont go over 220..


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## pi9 (Jan 2, 2016)

crookedeye said:


> i was mentioning a climber lol..i never seen a 300lb plus human climb a tree..but i bet you could do it, you look pretty spealth.. i bet you dont go over 220..


Your comments make less and less sense every time you post.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

The real ? is:

What would Forrest Gump do?

:darkbeer:


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

you need to be more specific than that...


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## pi9 (Jan 2, 2016)

You said you were mentioning a climber, but using sticks and a hang on is harder so if a 300lb pluss guy can do that clearly he can use a climber. 

Then you say I am 220lb you might want to get your eyes checked I am 6' and last time I was pushing just over 300. 

You then say you never seen a 300lb plus human climb a tree after watching a video of one doing it....


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

pi9 said:


> You said you were mentioning a climber, but using sticks and a hang on is harder so if a 300lb pluss guy can do that clearly he can use a climber.
> 
> Then you say I am 220lb you might want to get your eyes checked I am 6' and last time I was pushing just over 300.
> 
> You then say you never seen a 300lb plus human climb a tree after watching a video of one doing it....


you didnt look that big on video, my apologies..i mainly said that as a joke dont take it so hard..


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## crookedeye (May 12, 2007)

archery is a serious business around here..lol


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## gjs4 (Jan 10, 2006)

Can someone provide the data on the number of LW stands produced, used and found defective?

I've got a haunting suspicion that if typical consumer fault rates applied... LW would have a stellar reputation. Seems many hate them for their cost or they "have a better idea".

If someone gets hurt and has no accountability - its time for litigation. I wonder what someone's motive is for posting this? Not a fan boy or providing a stick in the eye for the injured but the bad rap AT can have comes from know-it-alls coming in like sharks at the first hint of blood in the water.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

gjs4 said:


> Can someone provide the data on the number of LW stands produced, used and found defective?


The only one with accurate data there would be Lone Wolf them self?




> I wonder what someone's motive is for posting this?


More than likely to let other users know he was under the rated 350lb weight limit and his belt broke. And for others safety, which means your belt can possibly break too? And although many feel things happen, some feel it should not have broke regardless, and would like to know why it broke, or possibly see an improvement in the belt so this don't happen, is my guess?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Gump says:

If you like your Lone Wolf climber go ahead and use it if its over 30° since as far as he has read all the problems come from use in temps that approach 0°.

He also says to watch that you do not torque the belts as you climb.

That's all he had to say about that.

:cocktail:


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## Red Eye 81 (Feb 4, 2006)

zap said:


> Gump says:
> 
> If you like your Lone Wolf climber go ahead and use it if its over 30° since as far as he has read all the problems come from use in temps that approach 0°.
> 
> ...


Climbing in a LW is like a box of chocolates, ya never know what ya gonna get............:wink:


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

:cocktail:


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## KY Bowhunter 5 (Jan 14, 2016)

tagged


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Lone :wolf::zip::dontknow:


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## little_wolf (Mar 3, 2014)

Hey Benz...looks like it's been over 3 weeks since you sent LW a follow up email...did they ever get back to you???


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

It is definitely looking more like a defective belt & not user error. So, anyone using the replacement belts " Use with Caution".


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

little_wolf said:


> Hey Benz...looks like it's been over 3 weeks since you sent LW a follow up email...did they ever get back to you???


Kind of odd, he doesn't update after 3 weeks, if he heard or not? I'm guessing we'll never hear anything from the actual issue? The longer it goes, the more most forget, which seems to be the way it will be handled?


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Now you have to wonder if they paid the OP off, to keep his mouth shut? Just very odd, he isn't giving any updates if he heard anything or not, after saying he'd keep us posted?


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

They more than likely want this thread to disappear also? But consumers using a product, have the right to know. So until we here Lone Wolf's response, I will do my best to keep this at the top, so others are aware of the belt issue too.


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## Rupypug (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm not sure there is an issue. I have three of their climbers and have never had any problems with their belts. One is old and two are new


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Rupypug said:


> I'm not sure there is an issue. I have three of their climbers and have never had any problems with their belts. One is old and two are new
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There was obviously an issue with the one broke, and it sure would be nice to hear Lone Wolfs explaination, as the OP explained they would, but still have not. 

You have 3 and never had an issue, I have 1 and never had an issue, do we consider ourselves lucky? The point is, wouldn't you still want to know as a user? If not keep climbing.


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## Rupypug (Oct 24, 2006)

I will just keep climbing. Every manufacturer has problems and that is the reason I no longer use a summit Treestand. They actually had a lot of weld brakes. I have heard of one maybe two belt breaks. I wear a safety harness and feel comfortable not knowing what happened to one belt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Any word yet, on the Lone Wolf belt that broke?


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## tjohnson53 (May 31, 2011)

X2 on an update!


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## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

Buckbadger said:


> There was obviously an issue with the one broke, and it sure would be nice to hear Lone Wolfs explaination, as the OP explained they would, but still have not.
> 
> You have 3 and never had an issue, I have 1 and never had an issue, do we consider ourselves lucky? The point is, wouldn't you still want to know as a user? If not keep climbing.


Maybe there actually was no issue and the belt broke do to misuse.

There are warnings in the owners manual. If the OP did not heed those warnings then he is at fault. I have never had an issue with any of my belts.


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## tjohnson53 (May 31, 2011)

Could you elaborate on miss uses? I know it says about pinching the belt, but who hasn't done that while climbing? It's not intention but sometimes it can't be prevented during the climb


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

tjohnson53 said:


> Could you elaborate on miss uses? I know it says about pinching the belt, but who hasn't done that while climbing? It's not intention but sometimes it can't be prevented during the climb


Exactly, like I said before, I would hope the belt was designed for some miss use, I don't think anyone climbs without some degree of the so called mis use. To me this is just rediculous and nothing more than a scapegoat, so when there is an issue, they can claim mis use.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

enkriss said:


> Maybe there actually was no issue and the belt broke do to misuse.
> 
> There are warnings in the owners manual. If the OP did not heed those warnings then he is at fault. I have never had an issue with any of my belts.


Did you read the entire thread? The point is, the OP said Lone wolf would get back with the cause and has not yet, and my opinon, they never will. And if they do come back, gauranteed it's a mis use issue, which will not sit well with me. As the pinching or mis use issue, is bullcrap, how do so many cables just break? But at this point and no follow up, don't you even wonder why? are they hiding something they don't want out? If not then, why aren't we hearing anything? The point is Lone Wolf claimed they would inform and need to stand up to their word, or I'll simply have no trust in the company.


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## tam9492 (Oct 29, 2012)

^^I'll take yours off your hands if you no longer want it!


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

tam9492 said:


> ^^I'll take yours off your hands if you no longer want it!


I'll wait for the new improved belts to come out, if not you can have for the right price, but I'm willing to bet you don't want to pay for it?


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## tam9492 (Oct 29, 2012)

Sure will for the right price. But I've been eyeing up the XOP enforcer, which I can grab brand new for $240.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

The other issue I have is the OP has been on the site often, his last activity March 19th? So why wouldn't he even upate this thread, to atleast say I haven't heard anything? Something? he's surely reading it. I'm now wondering if Lone Wolf told him they will take legal action, if he posts here about it? I honestly don't know, but something stinks here, and some of the biased users are so naive.


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

Buckbadger said:


> The other issue I have is the OP has been on the site often, his last activity March 19th? So why wouldn't he even upate this thread, to atleast say I haven't heard anything? Something? he's surely reading it. I'm now wondering if Lone Wolf told him they will take legal action, if he posts here about it? I honestly don't know, but something stinks here, and some of the biased users are so naive.


Well here's one way to find out?

OP benz1978, the next time you are online, please follow up with this thread. If you are back online with no reply to this thread, I'm guessing we all can assume you are under a gag order?


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

So I heard back from Lonewolf on the results of the tests on my specific belt. Long story short, the results were inconclusive. The belt was put through various tests including temperature tests and load failure tests using an actual stand. The belt past all tests within specifications. The belt was tested at various points along the length of the belt and it exceeded 3,000 lbs before failing. Chalk my belt failure up to a defect in that very specific area of my belt. It was certainly not under 3,000+ lbs of load when it failed on me. I don't know that I would feel any more confident in a 10,000 lbs belt. 3,000 lbs seems to be well within any reasonable use I would be subjecting the stand to.

Jared and I both discussed the results and I think we were both hoping something more tangible would materialize from the testing. That being said, he continued to emphasize some general good practices for the belts that I mentioned in previous posts.

So here's what I'm going to do:
- Ensure I'm not locking the belt in the same spots repeatedly
- Avoid using the belt on excessively large trees (trees that make the belt move outward vs. inward out of the belt tubes)
- Write the date I got the belt on my belts and replace them every 3-5 years
- Be mindful of keeping the upper platform from getting below level (tilting down) when climbing
- No-brainer - stay harnessed in!

Lastly, for now, I feel confident my belt failure is an exception vs. the norm. I've been pleased with the way my failure was handled by the company. I have no plans to sell my stands and replace them. There's a level of risk we all take when we use these devices and I don't feel like Lonewolf stands are any less safe than any other manufacturer. There will be differences in opinion and the beauty of that is, there are other great treestand options for those of you who wish to go a different route. Regardless of which treestand option you choose, stay consistent in the use of a fall restraint system. There's no such thing as a fail-proof stand. Stay safe out there and God Bless!


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## jacobh (Jun 7, 2009)

Well glad to hear your satisfied. Jared has always been awesome to talk to. I was told smaller trees put more stress on the belts then the larger trees just becareful. Anyways glad U are still happy with the stands and best of luck with them in the future


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## Buckbadger (Jan 29, 2007)

benz1978 said:


> So I heard back from Lonewolf on the results of the tests on my specific belt. Long story short, the results were inconclusive.


It took all most 3 months for the results, and they are inconclusive? So basically the belt just broke for no known reason?


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## benz1978 (Nov 7, 2011)

Buckbadger said:


> It took all most 3 months for the results, and they are inconclusive? So basically the belt just broke for no known reason?


That's what Jared said. They tested it in several places and it exceeded specifications. No signs of abnormal wear. No rust in belts. No indication improper use. I certainly didn't exceed the 3,000+ break load when I was using it. I weigh about 225 and it was the top platform belt that failed as I was loading up on it to climb. Can't imagine any scenario where I could feasibly generate that kind of load on upper platform. Stay safe out there. 

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

S.Dobbs said:


> Have been worried ab this since the first day I saw this stand/belt set up. Glad you're ok. Looks like I'll be sticking with my summit.


I have seen more post on Summit failures than Lone Wolf.


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## B4L Okie (Dec 6, 2011)

FWIW, on rope (rescue, climbing) that would be a 3000 lb limit, you actually get only 300lb, or 10% of break load, for a safe working load or limit. Don't know about cables and such as your lone wolf cable is, but if its 3000 break strength, I would guess its 300 lb work load.


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## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

B4L Okie said:


> FWIW, on rope (rescue, climbing) that would be a 3000 lb limit, you actually get only 300lb, or 10% of break load, for a safe working load or limit. Don't know about cables and such as your lone wolf cable is, but if its 3000 break strength, I would guess its 300 lb work load.


You are completely, and totally, wrong. Dynamic climbing ropes are rated much higher than 300#. 

But, your from OK, where I am sure the education isn't the best, so it's understandable.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

benz1978 said:


> That's what Jared said. They tested it in several places and it exceeded specifications. No signs of abnormal wear. No rust in belts. No indication improper use. I certainly didn't exceed the 3,000+ break load when I was using it. I weigh about 225 and it was the top platform belt that failed as I was loading up on it to climb. Can't imagine any scenario where I could feasibly generate that kind of load on upper platform. Stay safe out there.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


It doesn't take a load greater than the breaking strength to break a belt. If the stand gets tilted down too much or the belt gets pulled
at a downward angle where it comes out of the stand the edges of the stand rails can cut the belt. It clearly shows this in the manual
that comes with the stand. I always hold my stand with my hands on the stand and partially on the belt to make sure the belt moves
up properly while I climb.


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## B4L Okie (Dec 6, 2011)

You pot smokers from Colo. crack me up. Yes...DYNAMIC ROPE may have a greater break strength but its still the 10% breaking/working load ratio. Rescue rope, which is static rope not dynamic may have a 500 lb working load, making it 5000 lb breaking strength. Just 20+ years as a firefighter with rope rescue my specialty. If you want a pudding match with me, go ahead but prepare to stay up past you . 8pm bedtime in mommies basement.


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## tjohnson53 (May 31, 2011)

Any updates on this?


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## little_wolf (Mar 3, 2014)

tjohnson53 said:


> Any updates on this?


See OP response in post 321. Sort of a non-resolution.


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## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

I still think they should if embedded spring steel into the traction belts instead of cables. Would likely cure the angle pinch problem, make it easier to climb with and likely be stronger.


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## eaton (Sep 19, 2007)

enkriss said:


> I still think they should if embedded spring steel into the traction belts instead of cables. Would likely cure the angle pinch problem, make it easier to climb with and likely be stronger.


I agree and also it will keep it from hanging up on bark alot better as well.

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