# CamCleat Mod for hang-on stand



## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

Really liked the idea for the muddy's. I bought some of their sticks, and am a fan of the Cam Cleats. I think you can accomplish the same thing with rope/versa button or really anything if you know how to work with rope. I'll tell you this: I'm never going back to straps. The speed with which I can get this around the tree, and the absolute quietness compared to straps and buckles, is great. I'm not even sure of the brand of my stand. It's 7 or 8 years old and I put all new hardware in it when I did this mod. The harken cams are 30 bucks each at west marine. Aluminum 150 model - rated for 300lbs each, breaking load 750lbs each. The only negatives I have to these particular cleats are that they attach with #10 bolts. Numbers'wise I'm ok, I'd just feel more comfortable with at least a 1/4" bolt in there. 

Some people will say that they don't feel as safe with a rope as with straps...You've got a point of failure on each. If properly used, I don't see a difference. Plus, there is a second rope, and my safety harness. I feel no different standing on a corner of my platform 25' up in a tree now as I did when there was a strap on there. 

As I said before the cam cleat is not the breakthrough here, it's going to rope. I've seen a thread where a user puts his sticks on with the versa button and rope.


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## PJ_WI (Feb 5, 2003)

Did you use grade 8 hardware to attach the cleat?

I can't see how you attached the fixed end of the rope to the stand. Can you post a picture of that.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeh,

Grade8. I'll take some more pictures before I go in the woods next time. But I just drilled a hole in the tubing perpindicular to the cam cleat. tied a knot in one end of the rope and threaded it through tubing. It comes out from the right of the cam cleat in picture, behind tree, into cam cleat from left.

I'm also looking to replace those two vertical pieces of tubing with a little thicker wall tubing. Having trouble finding 1" square with a thicker wall though.


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## INarcher711 (Aug 25, 2012)

X2 PJ. Was wondering the exact same thing. Awesome idea kyler!


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

I'd also reccomend 9mm or 10mm rope. This is 8mm. Static climbing rope. Rated to a few thousand lbs. Plenty for my purposes. But the 9 or 10mm would be a little stiffer and easier to handle getting around the tree.


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## INarcher711 (Aug 25, 2012)

Don't know if it is cost effective, but saw somewhere that someone used the muddy lifeline to cut lenghts of rope since it is tma rated.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeh, Same rope. Not sure about price compared to muddy, but you can get static rope from any climbing shop or lots of places online. I'll tell you when I did the mod, i used the ropes from two of my steps for testing. Was much stiffer than the 8mm I have in there now. Definitely going to get some 10mm( I think Muddy is 9mm).


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## INarcher711 (Aug 25, 2012)

How solid can you get the stand with the ropes setup in your mod as opposed to the rope setup on the bloodsport?


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

I strap the stand to the tree the exact same way the muddy instructions tell you for theirs. I pull top rope as tight as possible with the base hinged up(not locked into tree). I let it rest while I tie my two overhand safety knots. Then I pull down on the base to set into tree. This draws the top rope tight and the base cams into tree and digs in. Now I pull lower rope through and pull tight and tie safety knots. Once I step onto my stand it does not feel any different than it did with the strap that came with it and a second strap near the base. As far as comparing to the muddy - the muddy stand is a bit more stout than this stand. There is some flex in this one that I didn't notice in the muddy I sat in at the store. But as far as tightness to the tree, movement, etc.....no difference.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

let me be clear too - I'm not advocating not buying the muddy. I think they have an awesome product and will probably scoop one end of season when I can save a few bucks....Or pulling the versa's off of a lone wolf and replacing with the cams (that ought to make some blood boil)...But if you've got a lock on you're having to replace straps or hardware or are just tired of dealing with straps, it's a good way to make it easier to use.


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## PJ_WI (Feb 5, 2003)

I've thought about this before when I was looking into the cleats and considering adding them to the LW sticks. I just don't like putting the rope through a hole with a knot on the end, don't like metal edges touching the rope. I would also like to remove the rope when transporting the stand.

I would make a loop in the rope large enough to span the cleat. Loop rope over cleat and through itself around the tree and into the cleat.

I guess the main reason I want to remove the rope from the stand is I'm used to the buckles and don't want to make noise if they hit anything. Clearly not the case with rope. I also don't like stuff dangling when walking.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

I used to rubber coating on the rope where it contacts the aluminum tubing(Dipped the rope in it), and smoothed out the metal on the edges of the hole. My thinking was that if the rope showed any wear, I'd just cut the end off, and tie a new knot. I made the ropes 8' long. Your idea with the loop would work fine. Another option is a grommet. I use the rope to wrap up stand and sticks so they don't make noise packing in and out.


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## PJ_WI (Feb 5, 2003)

I've been using adjustable bungee cords. This way I can put the hooks were I want them and then pull the bungee cord tight and lock it in place.

I ran out of time for converting my LW sticks to rope this year, but I will make the change for next year for sure. I'd hate to count how many times I've banged the buckle on something.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

that rubber dip works great for stuff like that. it can be painted on too. metal to metal - tinny sound. metal to metal with rubber between - sounds like an acorn hitting a log or a woodpecker pecking once. much less alarming.


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## IBOHunt3D (Jun 6, 2006)

Hey Guys, just some insight here. I have been racing sailboats for about 15 years now, and use the Harken cam cleats all over my boat. I have seen those cleats and #10 fasteners take some amazing loads on a racing boat. Never had one fail, ever, and I have sailed my boat in up to 40mph of wind. At those speeds, the loads on every part of a rig, are tremendous, and they aren't static either. They change as the wind shifts, changes velocity, waves interact with the boat, etc. You shouldn't have a problem with those on your treestands.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

They passed the "Me and a Buddy standing on very edge of stand and leaning out test"....Oh yeah and me crunching numbers for two days instead of working to make sure there was plenty of safety in there...


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## Hunter Dave (Jul 17, 2007)

kyler1945- Adding cleats is a great idea. Do you notice any twisting/flexing of that square tube upright? Would it be beneficial to have a couple of metal plates sandwiching/clamping both of the uprights and then mount your cam cleats to the center of the plate? Anyway, that's how I'd do it. Would eliminate drilling any holes and potential weakening of the uprights, too. Good luck.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

The best way to do it would be to replace them with a single 1.5" Square tubing upright (thicker wall as well) Which I will be doing at the end of the season. I have bolts running through both uprights, with metal spacers in between to keep them from twisting. I can stand on one tippy toe in any place on the stand once it is locked in and there is no more twisting, flexing, or noise than with the original strap setup. Far less noise since I replaced all the hardware and rubber/plastic bushings, and have no more straps and buckles.


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## Twitch (Oct 14, 2007)

nice work. I retrofit the harkens on a couple sets of sticks and they work great, hands down quicker and quieter than other options.


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## sagitarius (Sep 11, 2007)

I really like this idea. However, 70-80 bucks to retrofit each stand would get expensive.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

sagitarius said:


> I really like this idea. However, 70-80 bucks to retrofit each stand would get expensive.


Now you see why the muddy is so expensive. I was never doing this to cut cost, I was doing it to try out the muddy method. Figured I would share. My stand weighs 9lbs. And performs same function as 13.5lb muddy. I pack miles to hunt, that weight savings is worth the money


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## 22feetseat (Aug 12, 2008)

kyler1945 said:


> Now you see why the muddy is so expensive. I was never doing this to cut cost, I was doing it to try out the muddy method. Figured I would share. My stand weighs 9lbs. And performs same function as 13.5lb muddy. I pack miles to hunt, that weight savings is worth the money


 How is it working out ?


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## sagitarius (Sep 11, 2007)

kyler1945 said:


> Now you see why the muddy is so expensive. I was never doing this to cut cost, I was doing it to try out the muddy method. Figured I would share. My stand weighs 9lbs. And performs same function as 13.5lb muddy. I pack miles to hunt, that weight savings is worth the money


I am sorry if I sounded negative in my last post about the cost.

I think you did an excellent job, and thank you for sharing. 

Personally, I have too many stands and I hardly ever move them. It would be nice to have one set-up like this for the times when I have to adjust for a tricky wind or a change in deer patterns.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm sitting in it now. Working great.


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## kyler1945 (Oct 16, 2012)

bump for a couple people looking for this thread...


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## IceMan288 (Jun 28, 2009)

Im in the same boat as the OP. I have an older api hang on that is incredibly lightweight and I have thought about doing this but was not aware you could buy those cleats elsewhere. My plan this off season was to buy a single muddy stick and rob the cam cleat from it. But I will definitly look into buying some of these! I agree that rope is the way to go, I absolutely hate messing with straps. Awesome idea...


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## cloudbaseracer (Jun 15, 2010)

kyler1945 said:


> Now you see why the muddy is so expensive. I was never doing this to cut cost, I was doing it to try out the muddy method. Figured I would share. My stand weighs 9lbs. And performs same function as 13.5lb muddy. I pack miles to hunt, that weight savings is worth the money


I am always looking to save weight. What stand are you using that is 9lbs and the same size as the 13.5lb Muddy?

Cheers,
James


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## TDS (Nov 26, 2008)

What are you using to prevent the rope from coming out of the cam? Is there a model number?


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## KSHammers1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Can you post up directions or a close up of the rope "knot" you have there....looks intersting...


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## PAKraig (Sep 19, 2005)

Old thread bump to see if OP is still lurking around AT and since I'm considering the same thing on a couple stands.


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