# anyone watch the Republican debate?



## phendyr (Sep 14, 2005)

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts on what was said (or not said), who was strong, and who was full of hot air.....


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

I didn't watch it, but I saw an exchange with this jerk Paul and Huckabee which shows that those who believe in America are WINNERS.

I'm a PRO-LIFE Republican. Juliani or however you phrase it is a Sanctuary city proponent, not pro-life, and for gun control.... and he aint for me.

Aloha... Tom :beer:


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## phendyr (Sep 14, 2005)

yeah that did get a little heated didn't it?  I rather liked Ron Paul in the debate....It seemed that there was a lot of keywords/phrases and flag-waving rhetoric being spewed around, and dancing around real answers that it made his statements stand out. I thought his responses to the hosts' statements were very strong. A few exaggerations thrown in to help make a point, that may have been a little, tongue-and-cheek....

I thought Huckabee was very well spoken and presented himself well. There were times I didn't agree with him fully too but I liked him more than the others. I don't care one bit for Julianni or Romney.

I'm not a very political guy, and never was interested in it much, but I find myself more interested in it as I get older. what is it about Ron Paul that makes you consider him a 'jerk'? 

Not trying to stir the pot (honest!) but really just looking for other people's opinions about the whole topic.

:cheers:


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Ive got a kid in Iraq at the moment and Paul is an Idiot. Radical Muslims, Al Qaeda, and weirded out others are out to kill us, kill our economy, and do damage to America... A presumably UNITED America except under the Demoncrats.

If you listen to Paul carefully, he doesn't answer the question of keeping us strong, united, and safe. When you talk about sound bytes... Paul is playing to the Demoncrats, the Media, and cowardly americans... IN MY OPINION...

I've had two boys in three theaters and both of them at the front lines and their perspectives are that war is hell, but living like those folks do is not worth losing.

Aloha... Tom :beer:


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

Ron Paul is a moron. He doesn't belong in any position of responsibility whatsoever. And he doesn't belong on the podium with Presidential Candidates.
Haven't decided yet, but I guarantee it will be a Republican.
I wish we had term limits for Congressmen and Senators, like we do for President. And a prohibition for Lobbying thereafter.
Got no problem with Romney being a Mormon, he is well spoken and articulates sensibly. Huckabee ain't no slouch either. Rudy ain't bad at all. I would trust any of them with thier finger on the big button, because I think they would actually use it if the situation warranted.
And I liked Tancredo's responses about using torture when warranted. 
Sorry, John McCain is damaged goods. I respect his service, but he's damaged and makes comparisons to his experiences and our needs. Big difference being tortured for fun, like he was, and getting time sensitive information to save American lives. He doesn't see the difference, and there is a big one.


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## phendyr (Sep 14, 2005)

Good stuff rat and sniper,

I DVR'd the debate so I may watch it again (I'm still learnin!) I thought Paul's ideas of abolishing the CIA, FBI, etc. etc. where 'a little' off the rocker, perhaps his 'fire 'n brimstone' tonality caught my ear but I didn't fully hear his message... yes I did like Trancredo's response about torture as well...I understand the others' points against it, but in the situation that was posed, I liked that he didn't dance around it and stood firm with his answer.

it's good to hear opinions from those who know more about them than me, I definitely don't want get into a debate about politics, I'm unarmed for that :wink: Just helps to get a better perspective of the candidates.

And Rattus - Thank you for your family's service. May not mean much and I don't know you, but it deserves to be said.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Phendyr...  Thank you.. It means a lot for all of those kids over there and we as a country should be reminding them every day. Its easy to give lip service to our kids in service on the one hand, and then blast the job they're doing on the other. There are a lot of analogies that could describe Iraq right now, but one of the most unrealistic scenarios I've witnessed all along are the time limits that the Demoncrats imposed, impose, expect to see result from, over and over. It seems they haven't gotten away from their playstations yet.

I want a president that believes in AMERICA, believes that the English Language is our spoken language, believes in a secure border, believes in FREE ENTERPRISE, and reduced government in our lives. As for tracking down terrorists and for extracting information, if they listen for trouble, good for them. If they twist a few arms in search of relevant information, good for them... and I cannot believe that AMERICANS... actually take the sides of a muslim who just beheaded an american because we dipped someone in water... these people are NOT AMERICAN IN MY OPINION.....

To me PATRIOTISM is not a word that allows me to say I have a right to debate... then go on to say what a failure our military strategies are. In my opinion, if the country got behind the effort in Iraq and Afghanistan, full on, this issue in Iraq would go a lot smoother, more successfully, and certain emphasis which is not present at the moment from the people here at home.

Aloha..... :beer:


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## No.1 Hoyt (Mar 11, 2007)

im just a kid but so far from my limited knowledge that actor looks like the best canidate i forgot his name but im pretty sure he is pro-life and pro gun. my dad said at his work most of the guys are democrats because democrats are for the working man( or they used to be but arent any more they just are too hard headed to understand). we'll what have they done for you in the past 10 years besides taking away your rights.

i hope julliany, blumberg, clinton and obama dont win then our country is doomed


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## carteranderson (Jul 31, 2006)

*Both parties suck...*

and are in need of a long walk off of a short pier. I've been in both parties, most recently Republican, and am a C-Span junkie. Like most people watch sports and the Outdoor channel. It's an illness...

I've decided that the individual politicians from both parties only want to get re-elected and redistribute $ for votes or for Neopotism/gain. 

Govn. size and total spending grows with Bush and Repub. controlled House/Senate. Look at the eff'n bridge to nowhere in Alaska. Look at our rights to privacy being trampled. Look at a lack of tort reform. Look at teachers' pay, and at the dumbing down of America. Look at the continued encouragement of welfare recipients to reproduce. No control of borders, meth running our judicial, prison and social networks into the ground. Rising property taxes for those on fixed incomes...I'm going to be ill.

Norway does far more for their citizens with EVERYONE paying 24% than we do here, with some of us paying over 50% (don't believe me? Add up your federal taxes, FICA, FUDA, state taxes, property tax, sales tax, gas tax, phone tax, electric tax, wholesale hunting equip. taxes, and see what you come up with...). BTW, do any of you own your homes?? I challenge you to not pay your property tax for a year or two, and then you'll find out who really owns the property. Is that wrong, or is that just me??????

Just let me be king for 1 day. Just one day.

Check out: 
http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

They are a little closer to what Republicans pretend to be, rather than little piggies at the trough.

Done venting.

Carter


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Norway is a socialist representative Monarchy or however you describe their political system. The top tax rate is a little less than 24% actually, but it is more like a tax we should have... a flat tax. They have the same home ownership as we do, but they average smaller homes than do our poor. Our poor have at least 1 car in most households. Our poor have a tv in almost every home, as well as a microwave. 40% of our poor own their own homes, and our poor have a greater purchasing power than do those middleclass in Norway.

Norway is a Plantation Community... everyone knows where they will be working when they grow up because they have so little that they make. They are exporters of fish, whales blubber, wood and maybe some other products... but it aint much. They don't have anywhere near the standard of living as we do here in Hawaii even, never mind the continental US.

I'da not used Norway... *grin* :grin:

I agree with all else you said, but it wasn't just the republicans that are spending money, look at the currrent Demoncrates for real waste and look at individuals that are in the Democratic party who have historically wasted money... we have our own here in Hawaii... Dan Inouye... brings in about a billion dollars a year to Hawaii... nice for us...

I think that we should vote for ONLY FISCAL CONSERVATIVES who are pro gun... 

Aloha... :beer:


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## stevegabriel (Apr 18, 2007)

Since Bush took office with a Republican controlled Congress, the National Debt has grown from $5 trillion to over $9 trillion. Currently 24 cents
of every Federal tax dollar is used to service, i.e. pay interest on, the public debt.
So much for fiscal conservatism from the Republicans.

Time for a 3rd party...


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## carteranderson (Jul 31, 2006)

rattus58 said:


> Norway is a socialist representative Monarchy or however you describe their political system. The top tax rate is a little less than 24% actually, but it is more like a tax we should have... a flat tax.
> **********SNIP**********
> 
> I'da not used Norway... *grin* :grin:
> ...





Yeah, Norway is not my ideal. I was just using it as a point of reference that the average citizens get alot more (college 100% paid for, guaranteed housing/retirement and medical for life, etc) with 24% tax rate. That was my only point in regards to this. I am obviously a strong fiscal conservative who believes in free markets, and a democratic republic.

Secondly, I abhor the democrat-socialist party. It's just that I don't see alot of difference between the parties right now. Both are out for their own pocketbooks.

Lastly, I'm not sure I agree with voting for "FISCAL CONSERVATIVES who are pro gun..." as they will still tow the party line if they are Republicans or blue-dog Democrats. 

Anybody else pissed about the National Forest road closures?? Rumor in AZ is that they are planning to close most of the 2 tracks in 2008. We're talking about closing off access to 80-90% of the national forest acreage, that is technically our land. Blows me away that it happens with Republicans in control. Just goes to show you that both parties suck, and we need HUGE tea party...

Carter


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## Kighty7 (Feb 7, 2004)

No government is flawless. You will always have people in power who abuse the system for political gainor so they can say look what I did to get reelected. I do agree alot with what people have been saying. We have dumbed down education to the point where children can't think for themselves and a test will tell us if they will do well in life. What a poor system. I should know I am a middle school teacher. See it everyday. I do believe that we need a different tax structure! A structure that benefits only one class of people while the others work hard to support everyone is not great. A Flat TAx is the way to go! It would shrink government as well. All I pray fro every night is that Hillary the Dragon Lady does not get elected! People ask if we need a UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAM! Wake up people, we already have Universal Health Care. If you have insurance and you pay for it you are also paying for everyone who doesn't have it! Why do you think everything has gone up so much in the last 5 years. Illegals and the impoverished who have 10 kids are driving up the cost as well as the crackpot lawsuits that make things rediculous. Just my 2 cents!


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## Yellowfin (Mar 6, 2007)

stevegabriel said:


> Since Bush took office with a Republican controlled Congress, the National Debt has grown from $5 trillion to over $9 trillion. Currently 24 cents
> of every Federal tax dollar is used to service, i.e. pay interest on, the public debt.
> So much for fiscal conservatism from the Republicans.
> 
> Time for a 3rd party...


I want one too, but I don't know if we can get one.


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## carteranderson (Jul 31, 2006)

*Like I said...*



Yellowfin said:


> I want one too, but I don't know if we can get one.


CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY
CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY
CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY
CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY
CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY


http://www.constitutionparty.com/

Kick out the republicans if they want to be democrats in sheep's clothing...


carter


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## Yellowfin (Mar 6, 2007)

That's all operative on GETTING ELECTED. Get one in office then we'll talk. If I wanted promises over results, I'd vote for...well, what we have.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

You know, bantering around the how much the National Debt is , assumes a zero sum game the way it has brought forth here, without that person comparing it to the GDP... which is necessary to put it into perspective. War is money spent without any return on investment, so it is money down a rat hole, unless you consider the rat defending our shores... which I do... especially since my son returned from Iraq day before yesterday.

Bush's deficit is only 2.6% of the GDP, about half of what Reagans was. This is remarkable considering the economic implosion we suffered with the stock market crash, 9/11 and the war, took a terrible drain, but the tax cuts, and interest rates have propelled our economy better than anyone could have hoped for.

Yes we are spending lots of money... most of it for entitlements, social security, and the drug plan... This is something Bush wanted to fix but CONGRESS DODGED THEIR RESPONSIBILITY... Bush on the economy is the best we've EVER had... 

Aloha...  :beer:


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## Yellowfin (Mar 6, 2007)

What is needed is a few leaders who have absolutely zero investment in and zero love or tolerance for the status quo. The current situation is like trying to move an oil tanker's anchor with dental floss. What's needed is someone who wants to put a blowtorch to the anchor and cut it into teeny tiny pieces. I haven't seen a single soul who can get elected who fits that description.


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## carteranderson (Jul 31, 2006)

*Sorry, I gotta disagree*



Yellowfin said:


> That's all operative on GETTING ELECTED. Get one in office then we'll talk. If I wanted promises over results, I'd vote for...well, what we have.


This is exactly what keeps the status quo in place. We are getting promises over results, and that is exactly the problem. I'd rather vote my concience...
Carter


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## stevegabriel (Apr 18, 2007)

> Bush's deficit is only 2.6% of the GDP, about half of what Reagans was. This is remarkable considering the economic implosion we suffered with the stock market crash, 9/11 and the war, took a terrible drain, but the tax cuts, and interest rates have propelled our economy better than anyone could have hoped for.
> ... but CONGRESS DODGED THEIR RESPONSIBILITY...



True, but the deficit is not the debt. It's the amount spent over what's taken in. Republicans controlled Congress and the White House after years of talking the talk on being fiscally conservative. And they ran up the debt
anyway.7 -8 times the cost of the war.

24% of total yearly revenue is used to pay interest on the debt. 
The troops don't get the armor or hospitals they need, bridges collapse,
schools don't have text books and Uncle Sam pays $200+ billion per year in interest payments to China, Saudi Arabia, Japan etc.

Throw the bums from both parties out...

Simple concept but we need some new parties and people.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Now this I agree with.... We need totally new blood untarnished by the mold that shapes washington.

Aloha... :beer:


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## Yellowfin (Mar 6, 2007)

rattus58 said:


> Now this I agree with.... We need totally new blood untarnished by the mold that shapes washington.
> 
> Aloha... :beer:


Only useful in that it stays that way. New goes in and comes out just the same all the time.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

I think the only way to have a useful congress is if they volunteer without pay or without tenure.

Aloha... :beer:


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## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

Didn't see the debate, but:
Fred Thompson may be the man. Newt announced yesterday that he's not running, thanks to the McCain (democrat wearing republican name)/Feigngold law banning free speech within xx number of days prior to an election. Seems the democrats have a win win strategy: run as republican, win republican primary election so a democrat (wearing republican name) is running against a democrat. Either way, we get a democrat for president. I use the NRA.org canidate ratings to vote for the REAL, conservative republicans.


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## Death Blow (Sep 3, 2007)

No.1 Hoyt said:


> my dad said at his work most of the guys are democrats because democrats are for the working man


No Democrats are for creating dependents to their party. The "working man" was just the first group they suckered into this socialist crap. Ask yourself why the unionized American auto industry is in the toilet. Because once you are promised a set salary regardless of your performance then incentive to work hard goes right out the window. Secondly how can the Democrats be for workers rights when they want to increase the worker pool? You can't have a flooded worker pool by adding 15-20million illegal aliens and expect to demand more for labor. It just doesnt work like that. If you have 15-20million new workers who will work hard for less money who do you think is going to get the job? And they wonder why the jobs are all going overseas...

Conservative values for a less intrusive government who taxes less benifits the "working man" Not more government oversight and heavier tax burdens. 

My .02


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## Death Blow (Sep 3, 2007)

carteranderson said:


> CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY
> CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY
> CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY
> CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY CONSTITUTION PARTY
> ...



Or just vote out the Republicans who are not true to the party.. No offence I agree with you that we have some false Republicans out there. However I think the GOP is a good party with some rotten apples. That's an easy fix. Easier to fix that then to build a whole new party. Besides when conservatives divide then the Liberals will win the White House and I CANT have Hillary in the oval office.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

You said quite a mouthful there Death Blow... but people can see a real "working mans" benefit when you look at Wal-Mart and how much people benefit by low prices.... or low taxes = benefit to the working class...

Totally Agree....

:beer:


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## Yellowfin (Mar 6, 2007)

The problem is that voting out Republicans simply replaces them with the same thing. Recall, referendum, and 3rd party threats need to be increased dramatically to fix the problems.


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## Death Blow (Sep 3, 2007)

Yellowfin said:


> The problem is that voting out Republicans simply replaces them with the same thing. Recall, referendum, and 3rd party threats need to be increased dramatically to fix the problems.


Why would you vote out one old jaded rhino Republican and then vote in the same thing you just got rid of ? I have to respectfully dissagree with you. That is to say that all members of the GOP are all identical. Well common sense dictates that all people are of different beliefs and values although created equally by our creator. So it is up to the voter to decide who he or she feels best represents their interests here in DC. I have not personally followed the voting habits of your two state senators, Senator Sessions and Senator Shelby, who are both Republican by the way. I would suggest that you keep an eye on them and if you don't like what they are doing on the Hill then find someone who you do like. However saying all Republicans are bad people is absurd. 
Keep in mind that politicians are like diapers, you need to change the often. There are good men out there if you just pay attention to whats going on. I'd say that 90% of the problems in this country are because people simply don't get involved until there is a mess to clean up.



-edited for typo. Thanks


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