# Are my arrows too stiff? Can't get rid of left tear!!



## bowhunter96 (Nov 13, 2005)

I'm not familiar with your rest , but had a left tear problem with my LX . I fought with it for several weeks , and finally found out that my cables and string were streching at different rates . It took me several calls to Matthews to finally get the right person to tell me what was wrong . The cables were made of Fast Flight and string is 8125 . They replaced my cable roller without any help . I put Winner's Choice string and cables adjusted the cam timing , moved it back to center shot and it worked fine , but by then I was so mad I sold the bow to a buddy and bought a Bow Tech .


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## pbwhite (Mar 1, 2004)

why did they replace your cable roller?


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## BT archer (Feb 1, 2005)

sometimes the serving is to large for your arrow knock. try a smaller center serving .22.


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## bowhunter96 (Nov 13, 2005)

The cable would occasionally derail . I believe the pro shop I had working on it was twisting the cale ends to adjust upper wheel lean and went too far :embara: . I even blamed my arrow rest , which was a Trap Door and one the MBG guys tried tuning my LX and said send it back to Matthews . We had the rest so far inside that the vanes couldn't clear the riser . After replacing the string and cables the problem went away as did my LX .  Dave


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## pbwhite (Mar 1, 2004)

Ok I sorta answered my own question. I happened to have a Easton Epic 500 the same length and I shot it through paper and it shot the most perfect bullet hole i've ever seen. This is a much lighter arrow than my 2213 and I guess a weaker spined arrow. But, I still prefer aluminum shafts, so now if I can find an aluminum with this same spine I assume it will shoot the same.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Try X7 2212 or X7 2114 for 0.500 spine rating*



pbwhite said:


> Ok I sorta answered my own question. I happened to have a Easton Epic 500 the same length and I shot it through paper and it shot the most perfect bullet hole i've ever seen. This is a much lighter arrow than my 2213 and I guess a weaker spined arrow. But, I still prefer aluminum shafts, so now if I can find an aluminum with this same spine I assume it will shoot the same.


Easton X7 2213 is rated at a 0.460 spine rating. The X7 2212 has a 0.505 spine rating and the X7 2114 has a 0.510 spine rating. For durability, the 2114 is a better choice. 

As always, cut the shafts 1-1/2 inches longer than you think is the correct length, add the glue-in tips, then shoot bare and fletched shafts. I always use an arrow wrap to make fletching easier and to stiffen the dynamic spine. The shafts should shoot weak compared to a bare shaft.

Keep cutting 1/4-inch off the front of the shaft and testing until you have the fletched arrows shooting the way you like. 

Be careful, the X7 aluminums may shoot stiff compared to Epic carbons, tht's why I recommend cutting the X7 arrows long and sneaking up on the correct length.


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## pblawler (Apr 7, 2005)

*Left Tear*

Left tear is an indication of a weak arrow when using a release. More than likely the cause is fletching clearance, idler lean, or hand torque. Since you got bullets with a different arrow I would lean toward fletching clearance. Even slight undetectable clearance issues can cause paper tears. Try indexing your nocks while tuning.


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## bowhunter0916 (Apr 18, 2005)

*I had the SAME problem with an LX and with a SB*

Same problem with two bows. Problem was the string and cable stretching at different rates. Switched to a winners choice string and cable and tuned without problem. Shot WC strings now for thousands of shots and only had to retune once. Bow still shoots great. I would take them both off and measure them and set back to factory specs or buy aftermarket string and cable. Sucks that you need to spend more money but this worked for me. I did not try to measure the two and reinstall, but I bet it would work fine since the new bow tuned well before they stretched. Best of luck to you.


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## pbwhite (Mar 1, 2004)

Pblawler, if the left tears mean too weak of an arrow why did the epic 500 shoot a bullethole? It is a much weaker arrow. Also, it can't be a fletching clearance problem because i've been shooting bare shafts. Is this an acceptable way to paper tune or should i be shooting fletched shafts?

Also I have another question. When the bow shot bulletholes with the 500 at about 6 ft., i backed up to about 15 feet and it made a tail-high tear about 3 inches long. What does this mean? Is it simply because it was not fletched? Should I worry about this or just leave it alone? I'm really beginning to get frustrated. I've worked on it all weekend and have gotten nowhere.


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## pbwhite (Mar 1, 2004)

pblawler, also a question about idler lean. On the mathews website i've heard two different opinions on how the idler should lay at full draw. Some say the string should come straight off of the idler and i've heard others say to put a few extra twists in the left yoke to get rid of a left tear but this makes the idler lean slightly to the left. How should it be?

Thanks for all the help


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## S4 300-60 (Mar 18, 2003)

Alos something to consider.....What release are you shooting?


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## pbwhite (Mar 1, 2004)

i'm shooting a golden key answer release. I've been shooting it for about 5 years now and have always gotten bullet holes with it in the past. I really think it is something to do with my arrows because i've tried to get the 2213s to shoot a bullethole all weekend and could get no where close and tonight I got a bullet hole with the first shot with the 500. It has to be my arrows. I'm just confused now about the high tear at 15 feet when there is a bullethole at 6 feet....


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## S4 300-60 (Mar 18, 2003)

ok that is not it. Personally, I have never had a problem with getting stiff arrows to tune, but when I was shooting the CHocolate addiction, I consistently got a nock left tear. Couldn't figure it out. I switched to my just B cuz and voila, it was gone. I think this is only a problem with stiff arrows, but in you case, cannot be the cause.

The difference in the releases in my case was which way the bailor opened. The CA made string paradox, causing the tear...........


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## pblawler (Apr 7, 2005)

*Tuning*



pbwhite said:


> Pblawler, if the left tears mean too weak of an arrow why did the epic 500 shoot a bullethole? It is a much weaker arrow. Also, it can't be a fletching clearance problem because i've been shooting bare shafts. Is this an acceptable way to paper tune or should i be shooting fletched shafts?
> 
> Also I have another question. When the bow shot bulletholes with the 500 at about 6 ft., i backed up to about 15 feet and it made a tail-high tear about 3 inches long. What does this mean? Is it simply because it was not fletched? Should I worry about this or just leave it alone? I'm really beginning to get frustrated. I've worked on it all weekend and have gotten nowhere.



Weak spine will cause a left tear, stiff will cause right; other factors are causing what you are seeing. The roller guard on the M bows causes torque on the limb fork at full draw and must be equalized by "preloading" the arrow shelf side limb. I know the methods you are referring too and it may work for others but I have tuned MANY M bows and 99% will endup with the arrow shelf side ATA 1/16" shorter than the other side. You should tune at 10' from the paper. You can bare shaft tune and then switch to fletched arrows. If you get bullets with bare then tears with fletched that is a sure indication of fletching clearance problems. There is a link to my tuning procedure in my signature for the proper adjustments. Many people think floating yokes will cure the idler issue but they will not. It is a matter of angles if the cable pulls to one side the angle of each side of the yoke will be different (even on a floating yoke) therefore the vertical and horizontal force applied to each side of the fork will be different but the sum of the vector forces will be equal (I am an engineer and can do the static/dynamic analysis). In other words a floating yoke will not keep the idler straight. Twisting the yoke on a floating yoke will not allow you to compensate for the unequal loading because the cable will simply slide over. I have tuned many single cam bows and built many strings and cables (both floating and split yoke) for them. The best cable I have used is a split harness because you have the ability to "tune" the idler. Granted it is one more thing to adjust but it allows you to get the proper center shot and not simply move the rest to where ever the cable dictates the idler will lean. If the split yoke cable is not adjusted properly it can be a real headache to tune but it is a simple matter of taking a systematic approach to finding the cause of the tear by eliminating possibilities. If all the normal tuning adjustments do not fix the arrow flight I would have an experienced shooter, preferably one with good credentials, evaluate your form and grip.


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