# Brownell Rhino bowstring?



## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

You need to read/know what uhmwpe is first...Its just another acronym for HMPE , i.e. ASTRO , XS2 , 

I was told that you use less strands than XS2 with this material, which usually means larger strands, like 8125 (LESS STRANDS) to 8190 (MORE STRANDS)


Maybe someone will come on that has some already and tell us about it





> Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (UHMWPE, UHMW) is a subset of the thermoplastic polyethylene.* Also known as high-modulus polyethylene, (HMPE), *or high-performance polyethylene (HPPE), it has extremely long chains, with a molecular weight usually between 2 and 6 million. The longer chain serves to transfer load more effectively to the polymer backbone by strengthening intermolecular interactions. This results in a very tough material, with the highest impact strength of any thermoplastic presently made.[1]
> 
> UHMWPE is odorless, tasteless, and nontoxic.[2] It is highly resistant to corrosive chemicals except oxidizing acids; has extremely low moisture absorption and a very low coefficient of friction; is self-lubricating; and is highly resistant to abrasion, in some forms being 15 times more resistant to abrasion than carbon steel. Its coefficient of friction is significantly lower than that of nylon and acetal, and is comparable to that of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, Teflon), but UHMWPE has better abrasion resistance than PTFE.[3][4]


----------



## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

I suppose on brownells part a better way to classify there materials would be to call all of there string materials that apply uhmwpe. If they were calling it uhmwpe to get guys attention to think its higher quality well it worked on me. Lol

As far as strand count and finished diameter goes, comparing BCY to Brownell and correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't used a ton of BCY, but it seems to me that the finished diameters of Brownell strings are larger than BCY. Which is one thing that has me using more starting to use more BCY products.


----------



## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

We talked a little with brownell at the ATA and was told the rhino material is a grade between astro and xs2 but won't fuzz like those two materials. I thought that xs2 solved the fuzzing problem that astro had so it was confusing to us.


----------



## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

60X said:


> We talked a little with brownell at the ATA and was told the rhino material is a grade between astro and xs2 but won't fuzz like those two materials. I thought that xs2 solved the fuzzing problem that astro had so it was confusing to us.


They've must of had enough complaints to bring out the new material, hopefully its a new/better base material and not just a different denier to get a strand count change again. That will me my main question on Monday. I like the colours and consistency of there products, but they gotta find a way to get some really good durability out of these materials


----------



## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

Got pretty well the same answers as 60X this morning. XS2 is still there premium material. Seemed they are promoting it more as a crossbow material as it has held up well in those conditions. Some stuff mentioned is its Stronger than any material they currently have. 20 strands worked the best and wouldn't recommend below 18 on a string. I have a sample coming so ill post up some numbers and findings when it arrives.


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

60X said:


> We talked a little with brownell at the ATA and was told the rhino material is a grade between astro and xs2 but won't fuzz like those two materials. I thought that xs2 solved the fuzzing problem that astro had so it was confusing to us.


I thought astro and xs2 were exact same materials?? well we know they are but they said its another material or same???? they contradict themselves too much.


----------



## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

dwagoner said:


> I thought astro and xs2 were exact same materials?? well we know they are but they said its another material or same???? they contradict themselves too much.


FWIW they said it was a different "grade" of dyneema that's between astro and xs2


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

thats the point, astro and xs2 are the exact same material so theres no inbetween.....brownell was the one that said they were same when it came out, just another process to make it thinner for the xs2, thats why im curious to clear it up.


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

Astroflight is SK78 dyneema.
XS2 is SK90 dyneema.
Both are good materials, but they are not the same, and XS2 creeps less.

Think of Rhino as Astroflight on steroids. It is SK 78 dyneema, but is spun differently, and is waaaaaaay stronger.

I've been testing the Rhino for a few months now, it blows AF & XS2 out of the water. 
It rivals ultra cam in strength, which was real hard for me to believe at first, but it does.


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Rick Barbee said:


> Astroflight is SK78 dyneema.
> XS2 is SK90 dyneema.
> Both are good materials, but they are not the same, and XS2 creeps less.
> 
> Think of Rhino as Astroflight on steroids. It is SK 78 dyneema, but is spun differently, and is waaaaaaay stronger.



you information is completely incorrect, and your behind the power curve as Brownell themself has come out and told everyone that Astro and XS2 were infact the exact same materials already before, bout a year ago actually, only that thru some proprietary process that xs2 is smaller diameter. This came directly from Eric Griggs when he was working at brownell. 

how is it that you think you know what grade their using for any of their materails? they never post it nor tell you what it actually is??? its all HMPE becuase they do not use DSM Dyneema as if they did they would have to state it since its a registered trademark. BCY uses DSM dyneema and brownell does not.


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

dwagoner said:


> you information is completely incorrect, and your behind the power curve as Brownell themself has come out and told everyone that Astro and XS2 were infact the exact same materials already before, bout a year ago actually, only that thru some proprietary process that xs2 is smaller diameter. This came directly from Eric Griggs when he was working at brownell.
> 
> how is it that you think you know what grade their using for any of their materails? they never post it nor tell you what it actually is??? its all HMPE becuase they do not use DSM Dyneema as if they did they would have to state it since its a registered trademark. BCY uses DSM dyneema and brownell does not.


That's odd seeing as how I just talked to them last week about this very thing, and the info I posted was the info they gave me.

Rick


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

Just a tad bit more on that last post.

I build strings for a living. I speak with Brownell on a fairly regular basis, and have talked to Eric numerous times while he was still employed there.
The information I posted also came from him quite a while back.

I also do side by side torture testing of different materials, and knew immediately that the Rhino was way stronger, had less stretch, and less creep than any other HMPE material out there. 

Yes Brownell has a proprietary treating process they will not share info on, but they have never held back on what type of material/material blends they were using in each product.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just wanted you to understand - My information came straight from Brownell, both prior to Eric leaving, directly from Eric, and from others just recently now that he is gone.

Rick


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Rick Barbee said:


> That's odd seeing as how I just talked to them last week about this very thing, and the info I posted was the info they gave me.
> 
> Rick


Tell em to post that info you said they told you personally on their website next to the materials then.............. When that happens ill shoot you a check from Publishers Clearing House for 250k/YR for life...............

How come Rhino isnt on their site either???? their selling that for a while now i believe????



Rick Barbee said:


> Yes Brownell has a proprietary treating process they will not share info on, but they have never held back on what type of material/material blends they were using in each product.


Where have they ever posted up what the materials were actually made from??????? and pls dont say HMPE is the material..... i dont believe they have ever posted that info up, its not even on their website????? so that info isnt true either........


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

Look man. You want to argue. I don't.

Call them yourself, then you can argue with yourself about what they tell you.

Sounds simple enough to me.

Have a good day.


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

no arguing just stating facts brother......simple plain regular facts about the materials, that comes straight from brownell and been told already long time ago, Sorry your offended cus you posted up incorrect "NEW" information but thats not my problem..... your just spinning your wheels....

Enjoy.....


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

I told you my information came directly from Brownell.
Apparently you don't want to believe that, and have insinuated I am lying about it.

Not a problem. 
The internet is what it is. 8^)


----------



## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

Rick Barbee said:


> Astroflight is SK78 dyneema.
> XS2 is SK90 dyneema.
> Both are good materials, but they are not the same, and XS2 creeps less.
> 
> ...


Did you have to make any changes to your formulas with the Rhino as compared with XS2?
How did the finish diameter compare?
I've got a couple samples to play with, but haven't had time...


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

Hoytalpha35

My string building is for trad folk only these days, and I specialize in low strand count flemish strings.
My comparison may or may not be of any beneficial info for you but here goes.

The ratio of XS2 to either Ultra Cam or Rhino works out to be about 1.4 to 1
It takes roughly 25 strands of XS2 to be equal in diameter to 18 strands of UC or Rhino.
Bare in mind this is my own personal data, and the measuring of diameter is after some pretty extensive conditioning has taken place.

I currently primarily use Ultra Cam for my strings, and I build them 9 strands with the loops padded to 18.
To achieve near the same size string with XS2 I have to build the string 12 strands, and pad the loops to 24, and it is a tiny bit smaller still.
The Ultra cam is the stronger of these two examples, and has much less creep.

The Rhino material works out using the same formulas a the ultra cam, and after conditioning equal strand count strings will be equal in diameter.
The Rhino is stronger with less creep than the ultra cam. This is something that really surprised me.

As soon as my ultra cam supply has been depleted enough I will be switching over to Rhino exclusively.

Rick


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

Side note:

I just noticed something - Looks like this discussion can now continue without all of the *lack of reading comprehension* side tracking the topic. :thumbs_up


----------



## Ray knight (Jan 9, 2012)

I made a string from the Rhino samples and it stretched a bit more than the XS2 but then just hit a wall and would not budge any farther. Its super strong. Too thick for compound strings with tag end loops i think. I love the XS2. I am sticking with that. If i had to make a string for something crazy like a 120# draw weight or something i would try the Rhino or it would be great for crossbows. The XS2 is incredibly stable once you get the wax burnished out. Rhino has a little different feel to it. Its not as tacky like the XS2 wax.


----------



## Ray knight (Jan 9, 2012)

As for what the material is made of lets get one thing straight - All that matters is how it performs and how it holds up. If its made from plastic, if its made from Vectran, if its made from Dyneema, if its made from nylon, of its made from Cheese - I do not care! It does not matter as long as it holds up, does not stretch out after use, does not rotate, holds a tune, makes speed, and looks good. What matters is how it actually works. For me, for the methods i use to build my strings, i have not found anything that works better for me than XS2.


----------



## Ray knight (Jan 9, 2012)

Rick Barbee said:


> Hoytalpha35
> 
> My string building is for trad folk only these days, and I specialize in low strand count flemish strings.
> My comparison may or may not be of any beneficial info for you but here goes.
> ...


Rick i bet Rhino would be perfect for flemish strings!


----------



## Rick Barbee (Jan 16, 2013)

Ray knight said:


> Rick i bet Rhino would be perfect for flemish strings!


Hey Ray.

Yep, it is about as close to perfect as it gets.


----------



## x-cutter (May 20, 2003)

I had a weird thing happen to me last year at Outdoor Nationals that I am still trying to completely understand. I was shooting 24 strands of Brownell XS2 and my marks on my cams never moved a stitch but in the morning when it was cool I was hitting under the dot at 80 yards about 3" low and had to give it all back throughout the day. This repeated itself three days in a row with about a 30 degree temperature change from the morning to afternoon. Im not sure if it was a string or a bow issue. It was shot on a Hoyt Pro Comp Elite. Any ideas ?


----------



## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

Did you ever figure out why the temp was affecting arrow impact if the cams never moved?


----------

