# Banned drugs in 3D archery? Doping



## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I may get flamed for this thread, but it won't be the 1st time

I honestly do not know if there is a list of banned drugs for National 3D events...(ASA, IBO, Regions, NFAA) IMHO, if there is not, there should be. I am aware there are medication/doping rules for Fita, World Cup events.,


I will not mention names or classes they compete in, but I do know for a fact that there are competitors that take meds to help them deal with stress, anxiety etc during archery events. Is it cheating? Technically no, if there is no rule stating such, but I do feel its unethical and a form of poor sportsmen ship. 

What are the opinions of my 3D family?


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## robbyreneeward (Jul 4, 2010)

I agree. If it ain't already prescribed to you you shouldn't be allowed to take it. But it would be hard to manage.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I just had this conversation with another shooter. I think we both agreed that it should be a rule....but understood that the money to manage it may not be there. It may also prevent attendance by shooters who would not be offenders anyway simply due to cost and time/management of testing. Any excuse not to attend is not in favor of our game.

I think the way to implement it would be at the higher levels (say semi, k50 and the pro classes). 

I'd be happier just to see the orgs come up with, and enforce some universal rules on equipment and scoring though.


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## Outback Man (Nov 21, 2009)

So what happens if a list of drugs is placed on the "not allowed" list, but some of the drugs are actual prescribed drugs. Are the people that need to take them just at an advantage vs. those that don't take them? Are they not allowed to use these drugs during the 3D season, thus possibly effecting their health? 

Is it really that big of an issue, or are we just looking for stuff to fuss about?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I'd basically be OK thinking that those in need for medical reasons are getting a more level playing field vs their natural condition.... not an advantage. 

How is it done in golf? I'm sure there are some beta blocker prescriptions in that crowd.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Prescriptions can be and are abused. Prescriptions should not be used as a cover and certain prescriptions are banned in the fita word cup...I think beta blocker are on the list


I've heard tell of valiums and even alcohol are used just to calm down nerves.

The comments above are correct. the cost of implementing rules and testing would not be beneficial

I do have an idea. It may not be a good idea but its an idea

have a list of drugs banned and semi pros and above would be required to take random drug test and pay for the results themselves. Maybe the threat of testing would be a deterrent.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

out back man your point is valid... I don't think it is a wide spread problem,,,, yet,


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

prescribed or not when they are used as JW is referring to, it is a big problem!!! I am against it and want NO part of it, nor do I want to be around people that do this!!!


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## crashnburn715 (Jan 12, 2014)

Seems like a minor problem, in the scheme of things, I mean at some point someone beat you out of a job/school/test scores/atheletics b/c of medication enhanced performance it's the world we have built and thrive in. We all make decisions based on our personal ethical and moral backgrounds, some choose to do it while others do not. Look at the nfl testing doesn't change outcome only methods used to achive the desired effects.


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## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

Really?????


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

If someone is prescribed hard pain killers and takes/abuses them on the range it could be dangerous for other competitors. I hate to think of people taking these on the range especially if they are just doing it to stay calm for an advantage, but anything is possible.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

So think it through is it big enough yet to drug test I say no,is it a problem that few may do.money is involved in any competition there will always be people who cross the line to win.sin comes out from cheating to drugs how do you stop it


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## cuttingedge (Feb 19, 2005)

I think this topic is ridiculous. There are people who suffer from anxiety that take prescribed medications under the care of a doctor that do not abuse the medication. 

Using this logic, people who are prescribed glasses, or have had surgery to correct their vision shouldn't be allowed to compete either. If they can see better than me, they have an unfair advantage. Let's also eliminate folks who take blood pressure medicine, or cholesterol medicine. If it improves their health they might be able to pull more poundage or walk further without fatigue thus giving them an advantage. 

We should also ban novice shooters because they might accidentally miss the target and who knows where that arrow will hit? And, every bow set-up should be inspected including the string loop to make sure there couldn't be a loop failure resulting in accidental release. 

Do you not think shooters in the group could police themselves and call foul if they suspect someone is acting oddly, or drunk, or high?


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## ncsurveyor (May 12, 2009)

I'm pretty sure I know what /who you're talking about Jerry. In the end I think the abuse will become more than can be handled and Archery will be the last of concerns....never a good idea to give credit to ones success to a pill. Tolerance will increase and so will the need and dependency.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Knowing something of what's out there....Common foods can calm nerves. Over the counter supplements can aid eye sight...Blah, blah, blah...
The topic is worthless.... Archery isn't high profile and we don't need it made high profile with; WACI New has a exclusive of drug testing for ASA, IBO and NFAA archery athletes."


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

I just heard A Rod bought a bow!!


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

If Colorado has a shoot I bet some one will be high.LOL


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

From what I have heard most of the shooters cheating are taking beta blockers to keep there heart rate down and keep there nerves in check .


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

I don't think its worth taking this on. Guys have been having a few (alcohol)or even during 3D since its inception. It kind of goes hand in hand in some circles. I have heard/know a few guys that do smoke a little weed before a 3D or indoor shoot. Also, where does it end? Many of us take a few ibuprofen before a shoot to get the kinks out of our shoulders and back. I think this isn't worth pursuing. If you think someone is winning because of drugs/alcohol and not the hours of training and practicing then your off track.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

not flamed, just laughed at, alot.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I care less who laughs at me.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

JW-I would just forget about what some on here have to say, they don't know what you are referring to but eventually the truth will come out, many know already!


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## BOW TECH MAN (Mar 28, 2011)

I think any archer caught using any kind of illegal drug, drinking alcohol, are using a prescribed medication in an inappropriate method (not taking it as prescribed) on are at an Archey range should be banned.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Pincher said:


> not flamed, just laughed at, alot.


Your parents didn't spank you huh.


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## panther08 (Jan 7, 2008)

I think instead of saying there is someone you heard of doing this call them out say there name. Take action and prove you won't stand for it on the range. If you think someone us cheating call them out. This he said she said stuff won't help archery any just my opinion


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

:darkbeer:imp::gossip:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

outbackarcher said:


> If someone is prescribed hard pain killers and takes/abuses them on the range it could be dangerous for other competitors. I hate to think of people taking these on the range especially if they are just doing it to stay calm for an advantage, but anything is possible.


So, does this include competitors that wreak of alcohol while on the shooting line or out on the course? Drunks or those under the influence are just as dangerous, if not more dangerous than someone on beta blockers or prescribed meds. What about marijuana, can be high on that stuff too and out on the shooting line or on the outdoor ranges.
The World Cup and the orgs in control of the drug situation do have "dispensation" for prescribed medications and can/will issue the variance to allow those that REALLY need them to be able to compete. You go through the proper channels and get cleared to compete. It doesn't seem to cost them an arm and a leg to drug test competitors and we have many USA archers that compete on a World scale...and in the WFA/FITA events, which are governed.
Just sayin'.....

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

cuttingedge said:


> I think this topic is ridiculous. There are people who suffer from anxiety that take prescribed medications under the care of a doctor that do not abuse the medication.
> 
> Using this logic, people who are prescribed glasses, or have had surgery to correct their vision shouldn't be allowed to compete either. If they can see better than me, they have an unfair advantage. Let's also eliminate folks who take blood pressure medicine, or cholesterol medicine. If it improves their health they might be able to pull more poundage or walk further without fatigue thus giving them an advantage.
> 
> ...


As I posted earlier, I'm strongly opposed to allowing people that wreak of alcohol on an indoor shooting line or on the course outdoors; but it happens all the time. Nobody wants to be the "bad guy" in reporting the problem, so it is let go. 

With regard to blood pressure or cholesterol medications (beta-blockers), in my particular case and a few other archers I know, those medications make the fine twitch muscle control WORSE and not better (see in red above). I have an intentional tremor as a result of the by-pass surgery AND the beta-blockers, cholesterol meds, and an angina preventive medication. If I was to lay off the meds for a couple of weeks, I'd have LESS of a tremor, but be putting my life at risk by doing so...to compete in archery? Not a chance of that, so I went from near the top of the heap in my division to rock bottom and little chance of moving up very far on the leader board. I don't have the fine twitch muscle control due to the meds AND the condition of the intentional tremor.
Just so you people out there know that the beta-blockers don't necessarily clear things up and moderate nervousness (or whatever) for EVERYONE. You can get a variance from WAF/FITA/NAA for prescribed meds, by the way. Just takes some paperwork, and coordination with your physician and pharmacist to get the paperwork accomplished correctly to get the variance/waiver.


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## BrownDog2 (Feb 26, 2009)

woodsman78 said:


> From what I have heard most of the shooters cheating are taking beta blockers to keep there heart rate down and keep there nerves in check .


I just take them so my dang heart wont explode. Been taking them for years and trust me I get no help. I just suck but I have fun. I will be on the open C range Saturday if anyone wants to see.


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## mocheese (Dec 19, 2003)

Hard to believe some people don't think it's an issue. How about the fact that it's illegal to take medication that isn't prescribed to you! I agree if people truly need the medication that is totally different but people simply taking anything just to gain an advantage is WRONG!


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

From the IBO rule book, this has been in effect for many years, what isn't known is if any further development has occurred?

_g. Using performance enhancing drugs. Recognizing the IBO/3-DI affiliation with FITA; the IBO is developing a substance abuse policy. We may be recognizing guidelines along the same structure as those utilized by FITA in their International competitions. Be advised, these guidelines may be implemented in the near future and may come into use with no further warning after this advisory._


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

You mean people care whats wrong have you seen who the people put in the White House and your pulling that's wrong good luck


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## TowsonTiger22 (Mar 31, 2013)

I don't do the drugs, or drink when I shoot, or take any prescription. But as a manager for a company that requires people to get yearly/random drug screens, IBO couldn't support that cost of testing shooters even yearly, and I doubt that many shooters would pay to get them done. Someone also mentioned the drop in attendance to IBO shoots. I'd agree with that. You're not going to get amateur/semi-pro archers to submit to random screenings in relation to a hobby that already costs a ton.

Also, if you don't have the technique, not having the shakes isn't going to win you trophies. Steroids won't make you a better shooter.

Being impaired by prescription drugs, alcohol, and illegal drugs should DQ you from whatever shoot you show up to, and if a persistent problem, should cause you to be banned.


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## BAArcher (Feb 5, 2004)

I'm over 50 and sitting at home recovering from my 4th hip replacement/revision. When I return, I will be doping with Advil gel caps! This will work to my advantage to be able to walk to the Senior range and back!


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## crashnburn715 (Jan 12, 2014)

So the op stated "doping" implying meds used to increase performance, I didn't read into that what others are saying about etoh, and "dangerous" pain meds. My point is that performance anxiety is a medical condition and can legally be treated by a physician, for that matter chronic pain pts. require pain meds in a dose that while allowing them to function would impair the majority if abused. Anyone who is clearly under the influence or dangerous should be policed by us, common sense dictates and no new rules need be added. My second point is even if you "outlawed" doping ie... B blockers or benzos, good luck stopping the determined, look at the Tour de France, the rules that make you feel better only requires the offenders to be better at hiding it. I don't approve of "cheating" in any way and I don't know your specific person in mind, but if they are a danger to you or themselves, making a rule and not saying something to help that person doesn't seem like the right course of action.


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## BAArcher (Feb 5, 2004)

New Range official duties?


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

ncsurveyor said:


> I'm pretty sure I know what /who you're talking about Jerry. In the end I think the abuse will become more than can be handled and *Archery will be the last of concerns*....never a good idea to give credit to ones success to a pill. Tolerance will increase and so will the need and dependency.


This exactly ^^^^^ primarily what is in bold


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

there isnt enough money in the sport to involve the expense of doping. Archery is not like a biathalon where you are running or skiing, out of breath and then required to execute a shot. I think anyone thinking there is Lance LieStrong Armstrong type of program going on in Archery needs to put the crack pipe down themselves and buy a 1 way ticket off fantasy island.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

Are people seriously doing this? Geesh. 

I think before long, we will be showing up at the shoot, and them handing us a sanctioned bow per our draw length, and then giving us an hour to go sight it in and hit the course with it. It will have the same sight, rest, and stabilizer as everybody else...and the same arrows too. They will just be diff colored fletching. 

This of course, after passing a drug test, brethalizer, and full physical. Including prostrate exam.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Crow Terminator said:


> Are people seriously doing this? Geesh.
> 
> I think before long, we will be showing up at the shoot, and them handing us a sanctioned bow per our draw length, and then giving us an hour to go sight it in and hit the course with it. It will have the same sight, rest, and stabilizer as everybody else...and the same arrows too. They will just be diff colored fletching.
> 
> This of course, after passing a drug test, brethalizer, and full physical. Including prostrate exam.


So at an ASA the bow will include a restrictor plate?? Lol. 
Not really sure how big of an issue this is but do agree the cost of testing would outweigh the need. Someone obviously under the influence should be reported to an official.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

If there is money to be won you can rest assure someone is trying to gain a competitive edge someway somehow


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## SmittyNwess (Feb 2, 2013)

If one archer is calm at his shoots naturally and another archer is calm say by anxiety pill of some sort , what is the issue ? Each archer will be calm and it will still come down to talent . I have not heard of any pill to make your anchor point more consistent nor have I heard of a pill that will help your release . I have friends and family who take anxiety pills I have not noticed any super ability in them once taken.

If one persons body has issues producing or not producing enough natural chemicals to function properly why wouldn't we allow it to be fixed or altered . 

I don't think anyone has the right to determine what someone else puts in there body . 

And if someone has to stop there meds for competition that will do much more harm to that persons body, most of those drugs need to be consistently in there body , so by removing there meds u have now really tipped the game in your favor ( I say that because symptoms of people stopping there meds randomly can cause shaking , dizziness , sick stomach , black outs , and even seizures and really the list can go on since everyone's body is different. ) 

I think its a bad idea


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Doping is doping, shouldn't be allowed. Like any other sport. (Performance enhancing drugs)


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Just test the top 5 from each class. lain:


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

whos going to pay for it? you want another $5 added to your entry fee to satisfy some nuts who cant shoot anyway and just want beeotch?LMAO


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

woodsman78 said:


> From what I have heard most of the shooters cheating are taking beta blockers to keep there heart rate down and keep there nerves in check .


hell i take Atenolol for high blood pressure and i still run 135/85 or so they don't help everyone. and when im nervous i feel it.



FYI: Atenolol is a Beta blocker


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Pincher said:


> whos going to pay for it? you want another $5 added to your entry fee to satisfy some nuts who cant shoot anyway and just want beeotch?LMAO


Your constructive contributions here are outstanding. In no way would I ever suspect you of substance abuse simply based on your stance here or attempts to deflect and degrade the issue being discussed. :bs: 

I can shoot. I'm not "beeotch-ing". Drug abuse is a problem. Drug use in our sport to gain a competitive advantage is cheating.

Staying calm during a competition is:
a. God given talent
b. Genetic
c. A trained skill
d. Available in a pill.
e. all of the above

Now, which of those does not belong in a competitive sport?


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## SmittyNwess (Feb 2, 2013)

tmorelli said:


> Your constructive contributions here are outstanding. In no way would I ever suspect you of substance abuse simply based on your stance here or attempts to deflect and degrade the issue being discussed. :bs:
> 
> I can shoot. I'm not "beeotch-ing". Drug abuse is a problem. Drug use in our sport to gain a competitive advantage is cheating.
> 
> ...



Just to stir the pot a little , what about natural anti anxiety like herbs ? Which there is a handfull of. Will this be considered Taboo in archery as well and what about eating healthy which has been proven to boost natural abilities from vision to depth perception will this be banned as well. I mean we can't have one person who is in full health order or even better competing against one who is not , it just wouldn't be a fair match ?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

SmittyNwess said:


> Just to stir the pot a little , what about natural anti anxiety like herbs ? Which there is a handfull of. Will this be considered Taboo in archery as well and what about eating healthy which has been proven to boost natural abilities from vision to depth perception will this be banned as well. I mean we can't have one person who is in full health order or even better competing against one who is not , it just wouldn't be a fair match ?


Would you like me to paint by numbers? The post you quoted was absolutely in aknowledgement of talent, skill, hard work.... all of which serve as accepted competitive advantages.

The discussion is about controlled substances. You obviously want to make it about something else because of your stance on controlled substances.


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## SmittyNwess (Feb 2, 2013)

The majority of controlled substance are created with combined natural and man made substance u can't have one with out the other , and I quoted the last one cause u said which one does not belong . 

My point is how can u ban one and not the other who decides yea or na on what someone takes or does to shoot better , I think it would be different if it was a more physically demanding sport (I'm comparing the physical demands of most major sports like football / basketball/ biking/ soccer , when ur almost in constant motion)


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## SmittyNwess (Feb 2, 2013)

And one more this before u get back to painting with colors , show me 1 proven pill that is used to shoot archery better , no speculations of it might or could I want FDA proven abilities mind over mater pill


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

SmittyNwess said:


> The majority of controlled substance are created with combined natural and man made substance u can't have one with out the other , and I quoted the last one cause u said which one does not belong .
> 
> My point is how can u ban one and not the other who decides yea or na on what someone takes or does to shoot better , I think it would be different if it was a more physically demanding sport (I'm comparing the physical demands of most major sports like football / basketball/ biking/ soccer , when ur almost in constant motion)


I'm not talking circles with you. Controlled substances are well defined. Their role in sports is well studied...that includes our sport.


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## SmittyNwess (Feb 2, 2013)

Were talking about controlled substance that boosts a persons archery skill which there is none proven , there are no proven substance on any record book in this world and the world ur in to cause the trouble of any type of regulations for archery and if for some crazy case that does end up happening I will be amazed that what if's and maybe's can cause regulations 

***heads to loony bin to look for sanity ***:what:


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

SmittyNwess said:


> Were talking about controlled substance that boosts a persons archery skill which there is none proven , there are no proven substance on any record book in this world and the world ur in to cause the trouble of any type of regulations for archery and if for some crazy case that does end up happening I will be amazed that what if's and maybe's can cause regulations
> 
> ***heads to loony bin to look for sanity ***:what:


Look at the drop down menu under the "clean sport" tab.

http://www.worldarchery.org/HOME/Cl...rld-Anti-Doping-Agency-on-substance-GW501516#


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## SmittyNwess (Feb 2, 2013)

tmorelli said:


> Look at the drop down menu under the "clean sport" tab.
> 
> http://www.worldarchery.org/HOME/Cl...rld-Anti-Doping-Agency-on-substance-GW501516#


If someone is crazy enough to take something with that high of a risk they should get what's coming to them , I do agree with illegal substance abuse rules I was a addict for over ten years but I don't agree with making one general rule bunch all together , beta blockers of more good uses then the few bad . 

(If anyone is at a shoot and sees one of the major side effects from the Gw drug , film it and make it for public view lol )


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## 02sixxer (Feb 9, 2014)

cuttingedge said:


> I think this topic is ridiculous. There are people who suffer from anxiety that take prescribed medications under the care of a doctor that do not abuse the medication.
> 
> Using this logic, people who are prescribed glasses, or have had surgery to correct their vision shouldn't be allowed to compete either. If they can see better than me, they have an unfair advantage. Let's also eliminate folks who take blood pressure medicine, or cholesterol medicine. If it improves their health they might be able to pull more poundage or walk further without fatigue thus giving them an advantage.
> 
> ...



Some of what you said, I was thinking. I am glad you have logic. 

The logic if most people astonishes me. So a combat veteran who takes alprazolam (Xanax) to help deal with anxiety in social situation and large crowds can't compete bc they fought for their country. Put that spin on it and it sound ridiculous. Also, why should somone have to explain that they can't stand being in crowds of people and to deal with it they need medication. Sound embarrassing. 

You are opening a can of worms when you start discriminating based on medical reasons. Ie what you call doping. On a pro level it would be easier


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## mountainman7 (Feb 15, 2013)

I am completely against doping to gain a competitive edge , but when is it considered doping...??? I , like many on here , have high blood pressure and take one pill in the morning , and one at night, is that considered doping... In order to define " doping" you would have to test not only for the drugs, but for the volume of said drugs in the system. A normal 7 panel drug screen will not show beta blockers anyway , so say if they are banned the test sample would have to be sent to a lab for the new drug screen that is now mandatory at most doctors offices if you are on any type of pain medication or anti anxiety drugs , and would take at least 3-5 days , if you are lucky , to show the results , not to mention the cost of the test itself, which is far from cheap if you are going to test for beta blockers. 
Only solution that I would see , is everyone in the group police each other and if its noticeable that someone is under the influence of a drug, even if that person is prescribed that drug and has taken extra*to try to gain an advantage, then they should be reported as a group and the sanctioning body holding the shoot should have to pay for the test and then notify that person of the results , and if money was won then the check be held until the results are in. Or just test the winner of each division after the shoot and see if performance enhancing drug levels were high enough to cause a noticeable advantage , which would be impossible. 
The cost of the tests that I am speaking of alone will cause this testing to never happen anyway, and for a fact if you take blood pressure pill , or pills , on a regular basis and quit cold turkey just to shoot a bow , you are most definitely risking your life. There are some medicines that not even a dosage can be skipped without causing , in some cases, extremely adverse side affects.


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## TOMMYY01 (Oct 21, 2003)

No offense jerry, but I need heart, plavix, diabetes med. I have to take every day. With that being said, you're going to have people that are going to try to beat the system. As far as I can tell, they were born losers to begin with. I don't believe Levi, Dan, Jeff or any of the pros are going to have to worry about me knocking them off their perch. I even had neck surgery dec. and now just beginning to be able to shoot my bow. I don't do drugs. Dopes take dope. It's been going on since the beginning of time. just sayin'
TOMMY


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I think alcohol is an issue and simple solution is education, posting notices at clubs that Alcohol and shooting don't mix and it's a family sport.

Worth considering that if any accident happens on a range I'm guessing the first thing Police will do is test for Alcohol/Drugs and if found it will no longer be considered an accident.

I shoot mostly WA Field/3D and they only seem to do random tests on the medal winners.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

Quote from tatoo on fantasy island TV show"the plane boss, the plane"


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

crashnburn715 said:


> So the op stated "doping" implying meds used to increase performance, I didn't read into that what others are saying about etoh, and "dangerous" pain meds. My point is that performance anxiety is a medical condition and can legally be treated by a physician, for that matter chronic pain pts. require pain meds in a dose that while allowing them to function would impair the majority if abused. Anyone who is clearly under the influence or dangerous should be policed by us, common sense dictates and no new rules need be added. My second point is even if you "outlawed" doping ie... B blockers or benzos, good luck stopping the determined, look at the Tour de France, the rules that make you feel better only requires the offenders to be better at hiding it. I don't approve of "cheating" in any way and I don't know your specific person in mind, but if they are a danger to you or themselves, making a rule and not saying something to help that person doesn't seem like the right course of action.


So, are YOU going to become the "bad guy" and report a person that is on the shooting line or at your assigned shooting group that wreaks of alcohol or whatever? Will you really step forward and take the risk of the "battle" that will follow; not only from the guilty party, but those who think having a brewski or 6 before shooting is just fine and dandy? I hardly think so.
It is amazing that the WFA/FITA has the drug policy and ENFORCES it, but here in this country, it seems like with regard to archery, we just ignore it, complain about it, but won't tackle the problem head on and with enforcement. Lack of enforcement of existing laws on the books are what is digging the hole for this country deeper and deeper. Failure to act on problems is also digging the grave, too.

Yes, you likely cannot stop it (like the Tour de France, for example), but you sure can slow it down by nailing those that blatantly just do whatever they want to do and rub our faces in their abuses..."because "nobody" will do crap to me for it." or the attitude, "Go ahead and try; I'll just sue you up the butt." That attitude has gotten our public schools in a dither, too. If you don't attempt to slow it down, you end up with the problem becoming worse...starts with a "few" and left unattended to, spoils the entire bushel.


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## 337088 (Sep 9, 2013)

That's a good thing, no tobacco or drugs at a campus/3d shoot is very good. No on needs to do drugs or see them.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

THEFOREVERMAN said:


> That's a good thing, no tobacco or drugs at a campus/3d shoot is very good. No on needs to do drugs or see them.


Those that host the Illinois FITA Indoor championship got shortered 5 shooters for the club's policy of No Smoking on Club Property. Couldn't smoke in our own vehicle in the parking lot. Until the policy is changed we will never attend this event again.... Smoking or chewing is not against the law.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Those that host the Illinois FITA Indoor championship got shortered 5 shooters for the club's policy of No Smoking on Club Property. Couldn't smoke in our own vehicle in the parking lot. Until the policy is changed we will never attend this event again.... Smoking or chewing is not against the law.


Sonny,
Smoking or chewing might not be against the law, but obviously it was against the host club's policies and procedures, and they CAN enforce that.
Did you know about their policy before you got there? Was there a sign posted at the entry to the property? If so, they certainly won't change it for You alone or for 5 people. Their policy is there for a reason. It could be related to their insurance or come from the owners of the buildings and grounds?
I know of lots of places that have this same policy about smoking and alcohol in the buildings and/or on the premises or property. Many companies today have, or are also in the process of adopting the policy of NO SMOKING on the company property, and that includes within your own vehicle on the company parking lots, too! It isn't new, so you'll just have to get used to it.

Highly likely you won't be missed and that their policy isn't going to change. If they didn't say anything about the policy, then that is an error on their part, but doesn't change the policy to accommodate 5 shooters, that is for certain.

In addition to this, since it was a registered FITA event, the use of any shaft diameter larger than a 2315 was strictly prohibited, too...I assume you were aware of that before you went? Some folks said they'd try to use their 2413's...WRONG! FITA/USA Archery isn't the NFAA...FITA/USA Archery enforces their policies, rules, and procedures and will DQ for violations. 

field14 (Tom D.)


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Love it when the op starts a fire then leaves. Spill the who and what or dont start threads like this.


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

cath8r said:


> Love it when the op starts a fire then leaves. Spill the who and what or dont start threads like this.


The who and what is not relevant to the discussion. The issue at hand is what a few people know and is possibly a glimpse into a deeper issue.


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## crashnburn715 (Jan 12, 2014)

I disagree that the who and what isn't relevant jmho but it has been eluded too that someone is dependent on drugs or etoh to a point that is detrimental beyond archery it's not easy but life is more important so say something to help that person not to better the sport just to help a fellow human. Second if this post wasn't to help someone it was to cast blame/doubt in a way that divorces the accuser from the problem. Or in arkansas speak talking #%*# behind someone's back and getting us to say it. In other words if you have something to say say it or keep if to ur self. I'm done again this is my opinion ur entitled to urs.


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

crashnburn715 said:


> I disagree that the who and what isn't relevant jmho but it has been eluded too that someone is dependent on drugs or etoh to a point that is detrimental beyond archery it's not easy but life is more important so say something to help that person not to better the sport just to help a fellow human. Second if this post wasn't to help someone it was to cast blame/doubt in a way that divorces the accuser from the problem. Or in arkansas speak talking #%*# behind someone's back and getting us to say it. In other words if you have something to say say it or keep if to ur self. I'm done again this is my opinion ur entitled to urs.


I guess we can just agree to disagree. This is not the place to throw someone's name under the bus and through the mud. I'm aware the situation the OP is talking about and pretty sure I know him well enough that he isn't going to name names in this situation, because that is not his style. The issue at hand isn't who, it's should the drugs/meds in question be allowed in archery which can be a dangerous activity. 

Things have been said to this person but people don't change until they're ready to. I do know that in a single case, the meds are prescribed but abused. I know several people who are concerned, myself included, but again, a public forum is not a place for name calling.


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

Its definitely relevant. Its not fair to those that are winning to have potentially baseless alegations leveled at them. So, apparently those winning the pro classes are taking drugs. Thats what Jerry is saying.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

cath8r said:


> Its definitely relevant. Its not fair to those that are winning to have potentially baseless alegations leveled at them. So, apparently those winning the pro classes are taking drugs. Thats what Jerry is saying.


That's not what he said. You said that.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

If a real problem doesnt exist, heck, just make one up. You'll find a witch to burn at the stake if you look hard enough, lmao, incredible, really.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Ive not went anywhere and I am not hiding. Cath8r Nor did I say it were or were not the winners that where doing so. So don't put words in my mouth Cath8r!! 

Its not about winning, or losing all the time. It's about ethics, morals, but more importantly,....LIABILITY, safety . Our sport does not need pill heads, druggies, etc. If your not one of those people, that's great. If your are, I don want you there! Is that plan enough for you to understand


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Many here would freak attending a shoot up here. Biggest indoor 3D series is held at bars on their indoor sand volleyball courts. Couple hundred people shooting I lost count on how many pitchers of beer and mix drinks I counted. Many courses have beer in coolers along the way, yet it seems to work and never been any alcohol related injuries that I am aware of.

Let the flaming begin.......


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## BAArcher (Feb 5, 2004)

Can you burn a doobee (not sure on spelling) during an event in Colorado? Now that's doping!


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

had to dig thru 6 pages to find this, now that I did you guys will know why this was put up here, word will be out quick, if not already?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

3Dblackncamo said:


> had to dig thru 6 pages to find this, now that I did you guys will know why this was put up here, word will be out quick, if not already?


Go on. lain:


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## mountainman7 (Feb 15, 2013)

sagecreek said:


> Go on. lain:


Agreed...


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## Logjamb (May 14, 2008)

Everyone has felt the pain of drug abuse from friends and or family. I am very very disappointed and saddened once again.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

sagecreek said:


> Go on. lain:


At least I am not the only one in the dark.


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## mountainman7 (Feb 15, 2013)

reylamb said:


> At least I am not the only one in the dark.


Agree again. If the " drug abuse" has been witnessed and proven, then I think it should be made known who the offender is , instead of the one word " hints " and all of " it will all come out eventually" stuff. I know that I would personally want to know who the individual in question is , so that I wouldn't have to shoot with a " dope head " , be it at a local shoot or a nationally sanctioned event. I choose not to live that kind of lifestyle , and don't particularly want to be around the person in question if he or she does choose to do drugs , and I am sure many more people feel the same way that I do, but if there is no actual proof of wrongdoing , then a name shouldn't be brought up at all, but the way it seems is that a few people " know" who this person is and evidently don't have actual "proof " enough to just come on out with a name, so why keep bringing it up if only a hand full of people are "in the know" about it....??? This is supposed to be archers helping archers , and I for one would like to know if I choose to bring my family to a local event , with a wife and young children , that I would at least know to steer clear of the individual in question, instead of trying to read between the lines and " guess " who it is. If someone has proof then spill it, if not why bring it up in the first place.


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## hoosierredneck (May 10, 2010)

Garceau said:


> Many here would freak attending a shoot up here. Biggest indoor 3D series is held at bars on their indoor sand volleyball courts. Couple hundred people shooting I lost count on how many pitchers of beer and mix drinks I counted. Many courses have beer in coolers along the way, yet it seems to work and never been any alcohol related injuries that I am aware of.
> 
> Let the flaming begin.......


that's what I call a shoot.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

mountainman7 said:


> Agree again. If the " drug abuse" has been witnessed and proven, then I think it should be made known who the offender is , instead of the one word " hints " and all of " it will all come out eventually" stuff. I know that I would personally want to know who the individual in question is , so that I wouldn't have to shoot with a " dope head " , be it at a local shoot or a nationally sanctioned event. I choose not to live that kind of lifestyle , and don't particularly want to be around the person in question if he or she does choose to do drugs , and I am sure many more people feel the same way that I do, but if there is no actual proof of wrongdoing , then a name shouldn't be brought up at all, but the way it seems is that a few people " know" who this person is and evidently don't have actual "proof " enough to just come on out with a name, so why keep bringing it up if only a hand full of people are "in the know" about it....??? This is supposed to be archers helping archers , and I for one would like to know if I choose to bring my family to a local event , with a wife and young children , that I would at least know to steer clear of the individual in question, instead of trying to read between the lines and " guess " who it is. If someone has proof then spill it, if not why bring it up in the first place.


I agree, which is why I am in the dark on this.....why bring it up at all?


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## mountainman7 (Feb 15, 2013)

reylamb said:


> I agree, which is why I am in the dark on this.....why bring it up at all?


Exactly my point. Why even start all of this all over again for nothing. Guess we will both stay in the dark...


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

and then.......


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## mdodraw29 (Apr 25, 2009)

I was at a local shoot and fell on ice the day before, my friend and I took a break at the half way point and went inside to warm up and grab a bite to eat. while in the hosts hall we saw friends and one of them said that I looked like the "tin man", I told him that I slipped on some ice in my driveway and another guy that was with him offered me a muscle relaxer.... Thanks but no thanks, I'll deal with the pain, and if this happens at a local shoot I'm sure it happens at bigger ones.


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## icemanls2 (Mar 15, 2007)

My bows are my drugs! They calm me down alot! :thumbs_up


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

How about at Bedford?


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