# Joel Turner THUMB SHOOTING WITH MODERN BOWS



## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

When I saw Joel Turner and His lovely family last year at Denton Hill he was shooting a thumb release and doing it rather well  

Of late their has been a lot of interest in shooting smaller horse bows that this style of shooting seems to suit so well 

Yesterday a thread on the forum brought up Joel and his latest endeavor which is shooting a left handed riser right handed to get the arrow on the opposite side of the shelf all done with different thumb release apparatus's 

Joel and I got talking and he was kind enough to send some short video clips that with his permission I edited together to give you folks a look 

For those of you that do not know Joel he is a Police Officer Sniper SWAT Team Leader and Lead Firearms instructor 

He also runs IRONMINDS Archery Systems 

He was also featured in The Masters Of Barebow Series 

He is a World Champion Caller and an accomplished Hunter to boot 

He is a dynamic speaker and I was fortunate enough to sit in on one of his clinics last year at Denton 

He is also a really nice guy and a great embassador for our sport 

So please check out Joel shooting a thumb release with a few different setups and at the very end there is a surprise clip of his very talented son Bodie 

I am not saying that I'm ready to switch to a thumb release but I sure am curious  

The added draw length that this style of shooting provides is very interesting 

Thanks for looking


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## dan in mi (Dec 17, 2009)

I saw Joel at K-zoo a couple years ago and he was shooting with his thumb RH on RH hand bow. We talked about it a little bit because all of my thumb ring experience was a RH with a LH. It was very interesting.


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## Arrowzen (Feb 14, 2014)

String walking with a thumb draw at 1:25...very cool.


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

I think he was string walking so he could look down the arrow better. We were wondering if that would be legal in IBO as his index finger is in contact with the arrow and using a tab instead of the ring.


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## ben911 (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks for video! Need to try


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Wow JP thank you very much. I'm a huge fan of Joel's. He was gracious to talk to me over the phone regarding a shooting dilemma I was having. He certainly knows what he is talking about. Thanks again JP, your videos and pictures are always great.


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## jakeemt (Oct 25, 2012)

Very cool.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

X2
Dan


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Its always been my belief that a thumb release is the cleanest release.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Makes me want to get one of these 

Photo by Daniel


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## jakeemt (Oct 25, 2012)

J do you know if he tunes bare shaft just like you would with fingers? Would you need a stiffer or weaker arrow with this style? I have always wanted to try it but info is very limited.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Jake 

I have no idea 

Joel is posting on this thread and I am sure he will be along to answer any and all questions 

I just don't want to butcher anything


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## Mooreski (Aug 3, 2004)

I've had the privilege to talk with Joel on the phone and he has helped me tremendously. I owe a lot of my success on my kills to him and his technique. (Saying your mantra until the feather touches your nose) Looks like he might be pulling and using another form of allowing the bow to release in a surprise manner. Either way, his advice has helped me to put a many of an animal in my freezer. Thanks for sharing!!

BTW, Joe, please don't hit me with that whip. :chortle:


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Thanks for posting Mooreski 

It's only for crowd control


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Joel is using a trigger on his riser that he catches his finger nail on. Think he calls it a grip sear. I have never seen anyone shoot under pressure as well as he does.
Chris.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

That's what he was shooting when I shot with him


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

jakeemt said:


> J do you know if he tunes bare shaft just like you would with fingers? Would you need a stiffer or weaker arrow with this style? I have always wanted to try it but info is very limited.


I think Joel uses paper tuning mostly. If you are going to give a thumb release a try, you will need to really practice and experiment with different hand position. I would pm Joel as he is always tinkering and may be able to get you over some hurdles faster.


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

That was awesome! Makes me want to try it


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## patrick2cents (Jan 26, 2014)

How close in performance are those little bows to the Covert Hunters? I know it's the same limb profile...


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Patrick I don't know 

The CH is a hard bow to fun with 

Sid should be along shortly


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## SNIPER10 (Apr 18, 2008)

All,

I have found I can shoot a bit wider spine range with my thumb on a right hand bow. I went to shooting two fletch to eliminate any fletch clearance problems. There is not nearly as much paradox when shooting with your thumb as compared to fingers. It took me two years of experimentation before I finally figured out the backing leather thickness on the thumb tab is a huge contributor to release cleanliness. Most commercial thumb gloves are too thin and your thumb will bend around the string too much and cause a sticky release. The thumb release is a tricky animal, but that little tid bit will help a ton.

As far as tuning goes, I don't do bare shaft because I need to see if I am having fletch clearance issues with the low paradox issue. I paper tune mostly to get a starting point, then I go right to broadhead tuning. The broadhead will never lie, because if the blades are exposed to the air, it will tell you which way the tail is coming out of the bow. If you are shooting a right hand bow and you are right handed, you will have to drop your thumb down the string a bit to keep your index finger from pushing the arrow off the rest / shelf. I used to shoot about an inch below the nock, but now I shoot 5/8 inch below. That will affect the tune as well. You may have to play with nockpoint height a bit before you get it tuned. I have enjoyed extremely good arrow flight and broadhead flight with my thumb shooting.

With the left hand bow, shooting right handed, the thumbring goes right underneath the nock of the arrow. The paradox is now matched like it is with your fingers if you were shooting left handed. However, the paradox is less so you may want to try the two fletch. When shooting two fletch, right hand bow= right helical left hand bow = left helical to get the bottom fletch to clear the shelf.

Keep the questions coming, I hope to shorten the learning curve on this method that took me so long to figure out. Or feel free to call me at 253-686-3623 with any questions about target panic or anything related to sending a controlled shot downrange!!!!

Joel Turner
IRONMIND ARCHERY SYSTEMS


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Couple of years back we had a customer ask us to make a bow. His question was.... is the grip uncomfortable to hold in the wrong hand.
Such a strange question provoked a series of questions from us.
Turns out the guy couldnt shoot 3 fingers under and used a thumb release. So he shot a left handed bow right handed. That way the window was on the other side.
Releasing outwards is different to releasing inwards.
The poor guy was used to having a uncomfortable grip.
We made the bow backwards. Awkward to make due to being used to the shapes of normal risers...
But heck. If it helps. It helps...


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

I put my son's left handed grip on my Right handed bow. Best grip ever. Still have that low wrist Oregon Grip. Really doesn't look to be left or right. But it came with a left hand bow. So I am calling Left. 
Dan


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## ben911 (Sep 3, 2012)

Nice bow!
What is brand name or this small beauty? 





JParanee said:


> Makes me want to get one of these
> 
> Photo by Daniel


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

ben911 said:


> Nice bow!
> What is brand name or this small beauty?


That is a Ghillie Dhu from Border Archery of Scotland 









Pics from Daniel


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## ben911 (Sep 3, 2012)

Hi joe, do you try this bow? Need comparasion to covert hunter bow.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Ben I have yet to try one 

I am sending a link of this to Sid and Daniel 

Hopefully they will chime in


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

patrick2cents said:


> How close in performance are those little bows to the Covert Hunters? I know it's the same limb profile...


The ghillie dhu was designed to compete with horsebows.
it was designed to be a bow that easy to string. And very mild mannered.
to give you some idea. The preload is about 4". numbers like 8" are not unknow . ( how far the tips come back from unstrung to bh)
this allows an easy start to the pull in comparison. Afterall. You dont want a hard bow to start to pull when on a horse...

So what it has lost in preload. It gains in recurve action.

So its no slouch. But it wasnt meant to be a rocket ship.
its meant to be a horse bow or a ground blind bow.

those recurves give you space to design other aspects into the bow.
you dont need high preload to get good stored energy.
this bow prooves it


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Thanks Sid 

From Daniel 

Joe

as for comparing the Ghillie to the CH ...


both of them are incredible bows by all means - but they are two completely different animals

so far I have not come across any other bow that would be comparable to the CH .... I guess you know what I am talking here *:-h winken


anyhow, here´s some data on the 56 inch Ghillie Dhu 

56" Bow.
52 lbs @ 28
48" strung Nock to Nock with 7 BH and 44" at full draw.

Full working recurves, deflexed riser with horn overlays at the back and front.
Cut to center.
Bamboo core with carbon back and front using Hex 6 technology.
Almost no preload - easy to string and ample smoothness.

Weight of bow without string: 420 grams
Weight of 16 strand FF string with silencer: 7 grams

Some data on arrow speed.

Arrows where fletched with 3 feathers - 4 inches long.

Shot through a Radarchrono indoor and outdoor several times under the same light conditions.

Brace Height of bow: 7,2 
(a lower BH would give some more speed - but that´s how she shoots best for me at the moment - still looking for the right arrows though)

String: 16 strand FF with silencers.

Shooting style: 3 under with tab.

Arrow - 580 gr. @ 28 - 170 fps ………. @ 29 - 178 fps

Arrow - 520 gr. @ 28 - 175 fps ………. @ 29 - 183 fps

Arrow - 500 gr. @ 28 - 178 fps ………. @ 29 - 186 fps

Arrow - 470 gr. @ 28 - 183 fps ………. @ 29 - 191 fps


By the way, that bow has been improved already - the one in the pic is prototype #3 


I attached two pics of that GD at full draw


happy trails
Daniel


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Daniel, awesome bows. What length is the bow with the high pistol grip? 
Chris


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## ben911 (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks body for info !
My covert hunter phenolic is on order....8 weeks
Joe is twin broder of you bow so in #45 :wink:


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Chris Hill said:


> Daniel, awesome bows. What length is the bow with the high pistol grip?
> Chris


Hopefully Daniel will start posting here  

Or when he reads this he will email me an answer


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

ben911 said:


> Thanks body for info !
> My covert hunter phenolic is on order....8 weeks
> Joe is twin broder of you bow so in #45 :wink:


Congrats 

I'm jealous  

Honestly I am so happy with my phenolic CH that it's ridiculous .............. I am sure you will be also


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

JParanee said:


> Congrats
> 
> I'm jealous
> 
> Honestly I am so happy with my phenolic CH that it's ridiculous .............. I am sure you will be also


Well, if they're starting to bend on the phenolic, maybe they'll look theother way someday about the shedua


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

BarneySlayer said:


> Well, if they're starting to bend on the phenolic, maybe they'll look theother way someday about the shedua


I hope not 

I have 3 sets of Hex 7 limbs with Shedua accents


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Joe, does your phenolic riser feel a little less vibration than the wood one?


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I would not say less vibes just a little more dead in the hand 

25 % weight increase is a pretty substantial increase


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## Chris Hill (Aug 26, 2005)

Thanks.


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## grichards (Dec 7, 2008)

Thanks for posting. And thanks to joel for being such a great resource for archery. Im almost afraid to try this, looks like too much fun.


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

I just recently tried this and damn near broke my thumb off. make sure you wear a thumb tab or some kind of protection!


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