# I'd like to see a factory and aftermarket string comparison



## bbaumer (Jul 19, 2005)

What? Nobody besides me cares? Afraid the factory strings would hold their own against the beloved "customs" or aftermarket?


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## Buksknr53 (Mar 30, 2006)

I think that anybody who is serious about archery and strive to be the best that they can be, or shoot competition would tell you that custom or aftermarket strings and cables make shooting a lot easier and less troublesome. My experience with factory strings and cables was very frustrating due to string stretch, peep alignment problems and bow specs constantly changing which all resulted in inconsistant shooting. A custom string and cables ended that headache and I am a more consistant and happy shooter. The best way to test this is to shoot factory cables and string for a few months and switch to a custom string and cables. Then you be the judge.


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## CTA (Apr 13, 2006)

I don't think it's that no one but you cares. I think everyone else is wondering what you don't understand. Have you ever owned a quality set of strings/cables (452X, etc), that were built by someone who knows what they're doing? It's night and day from your factory strings. They don't move, don't creep, the peep stays exactly right, the bow stays in tune, etc.


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## bbaumer (Jul 19, 2005)

It's just that I haven't had a whole lot of problems with factory strings but yet it seems a lot of others have. Refer to the poll for other opinions, including more of mine.


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## ATP7315 (Sep 3, 2003)

One analogy is comparing a mass production Krispy Kreme donut (a delicious product if I may say) with some fine baking done by a pastry chef. In the end, the fine pastry gets the vote.


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## CTA (Apr 13, 2006)

I can tell by your response that you've never had a set of custom strings/cables. If you had, you'd understand. For instance, the PSE stock stuff on my Xforce was fine, but continued to creep, rotating my peep, etc. 

Crackers built a set of 452X for the bow, and it's not faster, and is holding it's tune without any creep that had previously messed with my cam timing. Stock strings usually aren't horrible, but they don't hold a candle to the aftermarket.


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## rbeddy (Jun 27, 2007)

i am actually interested in the different levels of quality with custom strings. i.e. are all custom strings better than factory, etc.?

for instance, just on this site, i have seen (among others) Cracker, Bucknasty, and H&M strings, how do they stack up?

sorry to semi-hijack the thread:wink:


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## bbaumer (Jul 19, 2005)

rbeddy said:


> i am actually interested in the different levels of quality with custom strings. i.e. are all custom strings better than factory, etc.?
> 
> for instance, just on this site, i have seen (among others) Cracker, Bucknasty, and H&M strings, how do they stack up?
> 
> sorry to semi-hijack the thread:wink:



Your comments are not hi-jacking at all. I think the results would be most interesting to see myself. Add to the list Winners Choice, Vapor Trail, Zebra/Barracuda, Nathan Brooks and more.


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## SHEEPDOG81 (Apr 7, 2007)

My custom strings/ cables look good, but I lost speed and gained noise because of it


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## IChim2 (Aug 20, 2006)

bbaumer said:


> It's just that I haven't had a whole lot of problems with factory strings but yet it seems a lot of others have. Refer to the poll for other opinions, including more of mine.


Same here.I haven't had any trouble with the factory s/c's on any of my dartons or the truth.I've heard all the rant and rave and hype over custom strings but i've also heard/read the disapointments that some have posted.IMHO i think it's like everything else.....so and so's bow is better,so and so's sight is better etc.Been around archery for 35 years and i'll be the first to say i'm no expert on any of it but by no means am i a novice.I think a lot just want's to run with the group while others are happy with what they have.


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## BusterBoy (Jul 12, 2007)

Very well said IChim2. I would like to see this test also. If aftermarket strings are so much better, and can be quite costly, I'd at least like to know which ones are the best and why.


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## leblanc822 (Feb 18, 2004)

*Custom Claims*

I think a string test would be wonderful!, some-or their lackeys- are claiming some pretty amazing things. Seperate the fact from the fiction and silence some of the cult like teeny boppers here. This site is about getting things done the right way and helping members make an informed decision. There are so many claims by various string makers that the average individual has no chance of making the right decision-end it once and for all...do a side by side test of various makers product(bought sample, not provided)!


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## et1673 (Jun 26, 2007)

*.02 cents worth*

I had three sets of factory s/c's on my razortec before I purchased a set of Winners Choice. I had three because I thought I never had a problem with them untill I tried something else. The winners choice pretty much shot the same from day one till now where the factory like said before took time to break in. Peep rotation is always good and it appears to be holding up much better. I wasn't a believer till I tried.:darkbeer:


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## CTA (Apr 13, 2006)

I'm sure some people do want to keep up with their e-buddies on AT. Myself, I just wasn't happy with the strings on my stock bow. It's pretty simple. More shooting, and less time in the press. 

As far as claiming "amazing things", the only amazing thing they do is not move. Sometimes you'll pick up some speed, sometimes not. 

Think about it this way. Stock strings come from a factory interested in getting the bow out of the door. Crackers strings come from a guy interested in making you happy with the crafsmanship. Bow companies cannot afford to take the time building them the way the aftermarket does. 

If you haven't had any issues with your factory stuff, by all means stick with it. Nobody is asking you to switch.


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## IChim2 (Aug 20, 2006)

I've got a 2003 darton mag33 with the orig green strings cables on it and it has been shot alot and the peep has stayed and the s/c's look as good as when i bought it.A lot of guys came on here and whined about the s/c's on their Truth bows and several just tried to pick the bow apart.I now have over 1000 shots through it and the peep has stayed in the same spot...since the break in period.The s/c's that come on the truth bows are some of the best material on the market but still many said they were no good.The only real probblem i've seen with factory s/c's is that the serveing sometimes seperate....Big deal.After a little break in reserve it,and odds are it will be fine..unless there's a probblem with cam lean and than it will mess up the serveing no matter what strings/cable's you have on.Like CTA said.If you want new s/c's get um.....if your happy with the orig...keep um.I like my factory s/c's but i also keep my bows in top condidition....no cam lean,timed etc...


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## TOOL (Apr 11, 2006)

I'd love to see a comparison of cutom strings. As stated stretch would be pretty easy to measure as would rotation. Serving durability should also be easy enough. A category of options could also be included. Even number of twists varies. It's always nice for a company to have bragging rights. We could finally put an end to the countless "which custom string" threads, where everyone simply posts their personal string maker and says they're the greatest thing since sliced bread.


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## escpen (Oct 21, 2005)

TOOL said:


> I'd love to see a comparison of cutom strings. As stated stretch would be pretty easy to measure as would rotation. Serving durability should also be easy enough. A category of options could also be included. Even number of twists varies. It's always nice for a company to have bragging rights. We could finally put an end to the countless "which custom string" threads, where everyone simply posts their personal string maker and says they're the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Personally, I'd love to be able to objectively test various string types / constructions for stretch, creep, durability and peep rotation characteristics. Unfortunately, I only know of ways to test stretch and creep in an objective manner (and this would be done through cyclical loading in a manner that isn't really consistent with the loading applied while drawing / shooting a bow). I may be able to add durability into this (cyclically exposing each string to an abrasive substance), but again it probably would not be very realistic. The other downfall is that the equipment required to adequately control as many variables as possible (e.g. temperature, humidity, rate of cyclical loading) is extremely expensive and getting time on these machines is almost unaffordable.

I may be looking at this in too technical a manner; I guess that's just my nature. If there are other ideas on how to go about doing this in an objective manner that would be feasible (as far as resources / funding goes), I'd love to hear it. It may be something that we at Archery Evolution can put together.

Anthony


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## Bellows1 (Oct 19, 2003)

I'm sure most factory strings are fine, but I like to dress up and personalize my bow. After all what is a Handsome man without a Handsome bow.


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## BowD (Jan 20, 2003)

I would love to see a comparison. The cost between the various custom string makers is vast. Do you actually get more string for your buck when you pay double the price? Not sure.


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## willthebad (Aug 12, 2007)

IChim2 said:


> Same here.I haven't had any trouble with the factory s/c's on any of my dartons or the truth.I've heard all the rant and rave and hype over custom strings but i've also heard/read the disapointments that some have posted.IMHO i think it's like everything else.....so and so's bow is better,so and so's sight is better etc.Been around archery for 35 years and i'll be the first to say i'm no expert on any of it but by no means am i a novice.I think a lot just want's to run with the group while others are happy with what they have.



one thing that you have to remember is that there are some manufacturers that put good quality strings on their bows, that wont stretch and such like that. such companies to name are Hoyt, Reflex, Elite, Bowtech, etc. Fuse, Vapor Trail, Winner's Choice are custom bow strings and cables and are put on these manufacturers bows, i.e. (Vectrix, Synergy, Allegience and others, Ridgeline models). If I am not mistaken the Truth also comes with a great set of strings and cables. 

so in all it will depend on the bow you get. if it has custom strings on it you wouldnt need to get some more, but if it doesnt, then i would get some put on there.


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## villaj3 (Aug 23, 2007)

So who's going to do this test, and when, I will be watching


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## tech2u (Sep 29, 2007)

*strings*

I've worked on bow's that have pretty much all the strings named and find that to be honest,that winners choice are about as good as you can get aftermarket.For a factory made string I don't think you can do better than bowtech/diamond.The fuse and zebra's on the current hoyt's and mathews are pretty good.The truth string is probably a step down but not bad in my opinion.I'm mostly talking about creep here.452X in my opinion is the best material.


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## bbaumer (Jul 19, 2005)

escpen said:


> Personally, I'd love to be able to objectively test various string types / constructions for stretch, creep, durability and peep rotation characteristics. Unfortunately, I only know of ways to test stretch and creep in an objective manner (and this would be done through cyclical loading in a manner that isn't really consistent with the loading applied while drawing / shooting a bow). I may be able to add durability into this (cyclically exposing each string to an abrasive substance), but again it probably would not be very realistic. The other downfall is that the equipment required to adequately control as many variables as possible (e.g. temperature, humidity, rate of cyclical loading) is extremely expensive and getting time on these machines is almost unaffordable.
> 
> I may be looking at this in too technical a manner; I guess that's just my nature. If there are other ideas on how to go about doing this in an objective manner that would be feasible (as far as resources / funding goes), I'd love to hear it. It may be something that we at Archery Evolution can put together.
> 
> Anthony


How about taking taking two or three of the top selling bows with their factory strings, remove and record string and cable lengths. Reinstall and set bows to spec and install a peep and loop and record all measurements then fire them each about 1000 times or more (get a few friends) then re-take measurements and any record visible wear peep rotation, changes in bow dimensions and string stretch etc.

Then repeat test with sets from Winner's Choice, Vapor Trail etc.

This is very time consuming I know. If you are within a reasonable driving distance I would volunteer to help with the test firing. Looking at several thousand shots all together. This would not have to be done on a Hooter Shooter as you are merely looking to get reps. Just need some stamina.

Just a suggestion.


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## ursonvs (Sep 19, 2003)

^^^ I agree with this statement but i think 500 would probably be plenty for any companies strings IMne thing i would do in this comparison also is trying to get the same parameters all the way around in terms of string lengths also.

like shooting all single cams or hybrid/binary style models. a 100"+ plus single cam string WILL be longer than say a 50" binary string after 500 to 1000 shots. also i would also add letting these bows sit for two days after the firing of these bows in the same conditions or room.

its not too hard anymore to find three different companies with bows around the 37 to 38" ATA with 7 to 8" of BH, hell it would probably be easier to use shorter ata hunting models.


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## Slice (Jul 20, 2005)

I am just curious, has any of the custom string makers chimed in with their opinions? This thread has been open since August. IMHO if they are not willing to come and give their honest opinion, maybe they are not any better then most factory strings. Sure they may look better, but if you are going to claim to be better, back it up.


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## nywell (Feb 21, 2005)

*Speed out the door*

Based on what CTA posted earlier, for what these companies charge for these bow, they should take the extra time required to get the strings right so an archer does not to spend any mor hard earned bucks getting the bow to shoot right. AT $700 + these things should be perfect when they leave the factory.


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## Virginia Archer (Mar 18, 2007)

All you need is a independent Reviewer to review the numerous custom string out there!! 

But I haven't ok-ed it with the boss but Find the Reviewer and ROCK SOLID STRINGS will definately be there!!!:wink: I sure we'll be willing to go head to head with some of the "Big" boys!!

www.Rocksolidstrings.com

www.myspace.com/rocksolidcustomstrings

Here is our latest Evaluation we have received
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=597747


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## DRFrance (Feb 4, 2006)

*Custom v Factory - Zebra*

I have been making custom strings from BCY material, among others, for more than 15 years. I used to replace everything, even on a new bow from a factory. Not any more.

OK - here is my disclaimer.....Please understand that not all processes or materials perform equally under all circumstances, and sometimes change is inevitable ... and maybe can be reduced.

A combination I have found now is a Mathews - Zebra string and cable on a Mathews bow needs little attention after initial set-up. The best quality materials are used in the string construction and come on the bow. Maybe a twist or 2 in a cable later can be done after some time of shooting in a new system, but extremely stable I have found.

There can be a serving separation around the lobe of the draw module side of the cam which can be simply repaired or reserved. That is normal wear and tear. Most other types of materials and bow brands recognize that this can later be a slight problem and have worked on new designs to "soften" the radius lobes of string/cable tracks. 

I am not getting paid for this recommendation/promotion -- this is simply what I found to be true -- I'm having very good luck with the Mathews strings and cables. I can now retire my jigs.

If you really want something special for your bow, place your custom order with Nathan Brooks (and tell him Don said to call if you want to hear him giggle and say OK).


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## outdoorattic (Feb 25, 2006)

Aftermarket wins...lol


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## bbaumer (Jul 19, 2005)

CTA said:


> I can tell by your response that you've never had a set of custom strings/cables. If you had, you'd understand. ......


One of the "big names" is Winners Choice. My son has Winners Choice cables and a Zebra string on his bow (couldn't get a WC string to fit his bow without waiting so we went with a Zebra that was in-stock) . He shoots quite a bit but not the dozens or hundreds of shots per day some here in AT say they do. Anyhow, after hundreds of shots cam timing is still spot-on. That is a good thing. The down side is the cables fray like crazy. We have waxed the heck out of them numerous times with two different brands and types of wax. The Xcelerator wax has worked better than the other brand but still, the WC cables fray badly. I'm not too impressed with that. We did not have this problem with his so-called "junk" Hoyt factory strings, but we did have timing issues after hundreds of shots with the original cables. These were not Fuse strings.

I on the other hand, have hundreds of shots through two different sets of Fuse strings. The only issue I've experienced with them is serving separation at the bottom cam. I began waxing that area regularly and the problem stopped. Cams are staying in-time and peep is not rotating.

I HAVE had over the years problems with the cheap "black" generic strings with stretch/creep/rotation etc. but I think most of the bow companies have stepped up to the plate in recent years and are using quality stuff from the factory, not the el-cheapo, $5 "black" strings.


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## Virginia Archer (Mar 18, 2007)

DRFrance said:


> I can now retire my jigs.
> 
> 
> > Were in the market For retired Jigs....Pm me if you wanna get ride of it!!


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## center x (Dec 11, 2007)

I just found this thread and find every bodies comments very interesting. As president of America's Best Bowstrings I will say that we would be very willing to participate in a product test/comparison. I would like the test to be done by a reputable person/company within the archery industry, like Archery Evolution. I beleive the best way to conduct such a test is as stated before, by taking accurate measurements and then shooting the bow a few hundred to a few thousand shots. 
The specs to be taken should be axle to axle, brace, and poundage. Strings should be checked per ASTM standards before the bows are shot. The specs should then be checked evey 25 shots for the first couple hundred shots to get a good "settle in" evaluation, then every few hundred shots after that. This post is merely my 2 cents, I would be happy to discuss such a test more fully, with someone who would like to persue it.
Jerry


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## jcmorgan31 (Nov 9, 2005)

I also just found this thread and I would love to see where my strings fall. I won't claim anything other than I hand build them and pay attention to the small details. If you do this test....count in Ranger Custom Bowstrings.....:wink:


I will say this. I am still very small. I build every string my self, wrap every serving myself, and take every measurement myself. I don't have machines or employees that build my strings for me. Every string I send out was made by me. I still take the same amount of time on every one and put the same effort into every one. If I submit a set for a test, it will be the same quality as the customer gets.....good or bad. Having said that, other companies mass produce strings. They have multiple builders and not every string is the same quality. They simply just don't have the time to be picky. I doubt if these companies send in a set to be tested, that it will be the same quality as the customer gets. I'm fairly certain they will specially build a set just to send in.

All this means is that this test may not be indicative of the quality of every string makers strings. You'll get the best string they make even if it isn't the quality that gets mass produced....


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## escpen (Oct 21, 2005)

center x said:


> I just found this thread and find every bodies comments very interesting. As president of America's Best Bowstrings I will say that we would be very willing to participate in a product test/comparison. I would like the test to be done by a reputable person/company within the archery industry, like Archery Evolution. I beleive the best way to conduct such a test is as stated before, by taking accurate measurements and then shooting the bow a few hundred to a few thousand shots.
> The specs to be taken should be axle to axle, brace, and poundage. Strings should be checked per ASTM standards before the bows are shot. The specs should then be checked evey 25 shots for the first couple hundred shots to get a good "settle in" evaluation, then every few hundred shots after that. This post is merely my 2 cents, I would be happy to discuss such a test more fully, with someone who would like to persue it.
> Jerry


PM sent. Thank you for the input.

Anthony


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## escpen (Oct 21, 2005)

jcmorgan31 said:


> I also just found this thread and I would love to see where my strings fall. I won't claim anything other than I hand build them and pay attention to the small details. If you do this test....count in Ranger Custom Bowstrings.....:wink:
> 
> 
> I will say this. I am still very small. I build every string my self, wrap every serving myself, and take every measurement myself. I don't have machines or employees that build my strings for me. Every string I send out was made by me. I still take the same amount of time on every one and put the same effort into every one. If I submit a set for a test, it will be the same quality as the customer gets.....good or bad. Having said that, other companies mass produce strings. They have multiple builders and not every string is the same quality. They simply just don't have the time to be picky. I doubt if these companies send in a set to be tested, that it will be the same quality as the customer gets. I'm fairly certain they will specially build a set just to send in.
> ...


Great points; so is there really any way to ensure that a given string / cable set is of the quality that the end-user would actually receive? Does this invalidate a test before it even starts?

Anthony


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## jcmorgan31 (Nov 9, 2005)

I dunno? But it would make a great disclaimer.....:wink:

Consumers should understand this when they see the results. Most will see the results and not understand that all strings mass produced by a manufacturer aren't necessarily the same quality.

Only way you will get the standard set is if they don't know they are gonna get tested. That means you'll have to contact all the companies that agree to the test, buy a set of strings as a normal customer, and use those strings. Without that, I don't know that the test will be anything more than a comparison of the best possible set of strings each builder can make even if it isn't what the customer is gonna get.

Every string I make is the best I make, so it wouldn't matter to me.....


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## Virginia Archer (Mar 18, 2007)

Good Points JC, Glad to see you in here!! you sounds just like our operation Tripp does all the building even when im in there getting in his way then I might burn a serving or 2 once in a while!! But we do everything by hand also(tripps hands) and I just advertise and Get the Pro & Field staff's what they need!!


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## jcmorgan31 (Nov 9, 2005)

Virginia Archer said:


> Good Points JC, Glad to see you in here!! you sounds just like our operation Tripp does all the building even when im in there getting in his way then I might burn a serving or 2 once in a while!! But we do everything by hand also(tripps hands) and I just advertise and Get the Pro & Field staff's what they need!!


I'm just a one man show!!! :wink:

I'm not saying that people with serving winders or other devices don't do good work either. I just know there are a few operations that are large and generally speaking, larger operations are the first to experience quality issues.

I'm just trying to make a better string every time I make a set and keep learning what ever I can.... :thumb:


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## eugene1e® (Sep 24, 2005)

You can count in High-Tech Outdoors Custom Strings as well I would be more then happy to put my strings up against some of the best to see where they rate


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## fissionarchery (Sep 13, 2007)

*Wolfden/Fission Strings*

We have been in the string game for over 10 years now and we know we can run with and even beat the big dogs!We would gladly stand toe to toe with any string maker there is.Just let us know and we'll be there!


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## bbaumer (Jul 19, 2005)

escpen said:


> Great points; so is there really any way to ensure that a given string / cable set is of the quality that the end-user would actually receive? Does this invalidate a test before it even starts?
> 
> Anthony


Who's to say the bows that the manufacturers send in for evaluation haven't had some special factory-only "tweaks"?


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## 3 stinky dogs (Jul 12, 2005)

The only factorey strings that ever gave me trouble were the fuze strings on my vectrix. That issue was swiftly solved by Hoyt.


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## mr.string (Jul 15, 2006)

*string evaluation*

I also would be glad to donate a set for the evaluation. I just found this thread so I guess I'm a little late. I do use a spinning machine for serving but that doesn't mean my strings have quality issues. I use cavalier pro server jigs with my spinning machine and I can tighten the jig so it can not be moved by hand and with my spinning machine it will pull serving off the jig. The speed of the spinning machine also puts more pressure on the serving. I started out serving all of my strings by hand but found that the machine makes it much easier faster and tighter. I also build enough strings and cables a year that I could not possibly serve them all by hand as I also am usually by myself in my shop.


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