# Mediterranean draw vs three under?



## Nance (Jun 21, 2015)

Yesterday I got more or less told of by a traditional archery store owner for using the three under draw. Because that would be stringwalking. I only use that grip for drawing and releasing only because it feels better on my joints. And my releases are much cleaner. I do not aim as I feel that I need to get a feel for my form and body first. 
I also anchor with my middle finger in the hollow of my cheek, which I was told is also a big nono. When drawing back that far, I really feel that springy feeling in my back/shoulder blades. When I release I can't wave my right arm around. It's locked in place and stays that way until I drop my stance. 

Canting the bow hurts my left shoulder. I have loose joints. Some things cause them to hurt. Maybe later, when I have put on some more muscle strength. 

Is the split considered better than three under? More traditional? And what about other cultures. 
Same questions on anchoring etc. 
Any other archers here that draw three under? 
Am I really that bad of an archer if I listen to what my body can and can't do?


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

String walking involves the movement of the hand on the string for different distances. Idea being to move the arrow's point on distance by positioning the hand at different locations on the string. If you use a single stationary grip and anchor with the index finger touching the arrow nock for all shots, it is traditional. As long as you can get your eye on top of the arrow and can see straight down its length towards the target, anchor where you please. Split finger is used in Olympic primarily because they have sights and a few other reasons. If you get told off by the store you're spending money at, it's time to find a different store.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Sounds like more bad advice from another archery shop


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## Nance (Jun 21, 2015)

Worst thing is that they pride themselves in being the best/only truly traditional trainers here. They really want to sell their courses on traditional shooting. In my opinion there is no one true traditional style. All bodies are different. I doubt that longbow men of the middle ages, told each other off about form. Especially when faced with hordes of French knights. Hihi
Thanks guy's. I really started to doubt myself.


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## monkeyball (Jan 31, 2008)

Nance,
We all have to find a form of shooting that works for us. Especially when there are physical conditions to consider. The store owner sounds like he is one of those that "Wrote the book on Archery". To many of those guys around. Find a style of shooting that works for you and then practice, practice, practice.

I shot split for years then switched to three under..........don't plan on going back to split ever.
Good Shooting,
Craig


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## PyrateLV (Jul 16, 2014)

This is why I dont shoot at Archery shops (or with others around for that matter). Always someone telling you how youre doing it wrong and they know the correct way.

Does the arrow hit the target where you were aiming? 
Then you are doing it right.
Doesnt matter if you are standing on your head drawing the bow with your toes


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Nance said:


> All bodies are different.





monkeyball said:


> We all have to find a form of shooting that works for us. Especially when there are physical conditions to consider.


The biomechanics computer simulations used to discern ideal shooting forms are constructed for idealized human anatomies based on averages. 

Real people have differently shaped heads, different length necks, different length arms, different shaped chests, different sized hands, etc. etc. etc.

There is no UNIVERSALY correct shooting form to which one MUST adhere - period. However, there are shooting forms that have been found to work best for the vast majority of archers when they attempt to mimic them as closely as possible. That knowledge and experience should not be marginalized.

It is amazing to read some of the earliest surviving archery instructional literature. Expert archers where dispensing the same advice hundreds of years ago. These ideas about correct form were not discovered yesterday.

It seems to my feeble deteriorating mind that there are probably at least three primary steps to developing form.

First you need a place to start. Most physical activities do not use the same muscles and positions of archery. Nothing is going to feel normal or natural in the very beginning. So why not chose trying to follow the shooting form that empirical experience and science has shown works best for the vast majority of archers?

Second, when one finds that certain standard forms won’t work for them; then make changes to account for your oddly shaped body parts. How does one know when they have truly arrived at this point or they are prematurely abandoning a desired standard shooting form? I don’t know.

Thirdly, as one encounters body changes due to age, disease, or injury; then adapt and adjust your shooting form to best accommodate.

Finally if you get to my stage where you no longer really care about maximum proficiency, competition, or hunting ethics; then just do whatever delivers the maximum amount of FUN without regard to ANYTHING ELSE.


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## southernalco (Feb 9, 2015)

Back in the 60's I shot split (no one in my club shot 3 under). After a couple of years I got out of archery from frustration( way over bowed and target panic). In Feb of this year I got back in so I could shoot with my grandson. Both local archery shops recommended 3 under. I anchor at the edge of my mouth with my middle finger and use both tab and glove. I also have arthritic problems so I don't draw in the conventional manner.........Every person at the club gives me advise on how to shoot!!! Whatever method you use IS CORRECT if you hit the target and it doesn't hurt...................


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## k222 (Jan 16, 2015)

My understanding is: 3-under is Mediterranean. Whether index finger is above or below the arrow doesn't make it "less" or "not" Mediterranean.

My source is Longman and Walrond, who pulls extensively from E.S. Morse. 1894-95.

Mediterranean incorporates cultures of Assyrians, Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, etc... And their cultural artifacts show many draw types, including primary and secondary. Difference between primary/secondary and "Mediterranean" is index and thumb holds arrow and index holds string, respectively. Whether archer uses 2-fingers, 3-fingers or 4 fingers, or whether archer puts index finger above or below arrow, does not distinguish make it a non-"Mediterranean" draw. Persians and Turkish also used the thumb draw.

North American natives used primary and secondary forms (index finger holding arrow).

Mongolian used thumb draw with rings. Japanese used thumb draw with glove.

It seems to me whether index finger is above or below arrow is not distinguishing: what is distinguished is whether index finger is holding arrow or draw is by thumb.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I wouldn't go back there. Sounds like you are using a similar technique to the best barebow archers in the world and in general I'd trust them over a shopkeeper.

-Grant


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

Interesting. I never knew much about form names. Thanks for asking. I know that locally here they don't much care where or how you grab the string. There are only about a dozen traditional bow shooters at any event. I do believe that they think split finger, one over, rest under, to be more traditional than all under. Some rule bound types require your index finger to be in contact with the arrow, either above or below. Anything else is considered cheating or string walking. 

At the time, no one was taking very good notes about how the native Americans were shooting. I think that they thought that anything resulting in an arrow sticking into a European was good form.

Myself, I have altered my stance to accomadate looking through the center of my glasses, I hold the bow verticle, I anchor under my ear lobe, and use no sighting method whatsoever. Almost everyone seems to want to tell me how to shoot better, or at least like they do. I have beaten most of them at 3D. 

Good luck.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Nance since you are in the Netherlands you may want to consider this. For purposes of competition many of the events you attend will probably be carried out following the International Field Archery Association (IFAA) set of rules. Under their rules Long Bow MUST be shot split finger. The index finger of the draw hand MUST touch the arrow's nock. For their purposes of definition split finger IS Mediterranean release. No ifs ands or buts about this. That is the way they call the shots, like it or lump it. (I myself do NOT like it.)

If however you are shooting something other than a longbow then you have somewhat more freedom as to how you can shoot your bow and still remain within their rules of competition.

As pointed out 3 under is NOT "stringwalking." With 3 under the index finger still touches the arrow's nock and you do not alter where you hold the string based upon different distances being shot.

As for me personally, I shoot Longbows and Self bows. I prefer 3 under. Not only does it work well with my aiming system, but perhaps more importantly, it gives me a much cleaner release.


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## Still mustang (Jan 22, 2014)

I would bet money that 80% of the IBO World winners this weekend at Twin Oaks will be shooting 3-under.


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## marcelxl (Dec 5, 2010)

You'll probably find many Mediterranean(split) to 3under converts on here……anywhere for that matter!

I used to shoot split for many reasons but mostly because I'm from the UK and most of the classes in the NFAS dictated it but also my own stubbornness, again for my own stupid reasons.
If, like my own past you find yourself being encouraged because of your country's archery body's codes then I could understand that, but it would not be wrong just helpful to get you started

3under works a treat for me, nicer sight picture and much sweeter release and no finger pinch so that's my stance.

Nothing is wrong……well, somethings are but not your original point.

I have no time for those saying anything outside of their own narrow mind is wrong. If you want, you use carbon arrows, metal risers, shoot 3under…….god forbid you might even want to have a structured and efficient aiming system…… you might even find shooting the wheels if your body is hurting you.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I have nothing useful to add. What they said...


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## Nance (Jun 21, 2015)

Thank you all for replying. Don't get me wrong. I do listen to all the advice people give me. They just said with their complete being that my style was wrong. They looked at me if I was shooting worms instead of arrows or something... eeeew and they kept pushing for a 120 euro course because then and only then, we would become good archers.

If I"m required to shoot split then I will be forced to learn. Regulations here state that the index finger has to touch the nock. Whether it's split or three under. That's what the people at our club are saying. We won't be shooting competition this year. We want to learn to be consistent first. Not looking at points obviously. They are true recurve shooters and yet they are much more open minded than these owners. They are pestering each other because we shoot well without the antennas and peepholes hahaha. Suddenly they feel the need to perform. Really funny! They are a fun bunch of people.

My husband has bought a Mongolian bow and he wanted a thumb ring. They didn't have that.

Ps Wednesday is our training evening. We get to train only once a week because our kids are 1,5 and almost 4 years old. Thursday we alternate so this week it's his turn to stay at home with the kids.
I will have him film my draw and release. Maybe you can look at it? One from the side and one from the back?


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## derfarhar333 (Apr 16, 2013)

Do what feels right to you. I started out shooting 3 under but had a couple problems with it after trying it out for 3 or 4 months. I was putting the weight of the string on draw on my middle finger a majority of the time unless I forced myself to use my pointer finger. It just didn't feel natural. 2nd, I couldn't hit crap past 20 yards because the arrow dropped off so fast. Lastly, the sting was eating the tip of my nose up! I tried split finger using a borrowed tab and haven't looked back. It cured all my ails. I still use the same anchor though. Listen to your body. It knows what's best for it.


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