# NFAA Nationals - Louisville



## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

Great tournament by NFAA this weekend. Real improvements made over the last couple years, and its appreciated. Line times and lane assignments were out quick so people could plan accordingly. That is great. Definitely appreciate that. Results up quickly. Even better communication for line judges to the booth to cut back on issues in the past. Enjoyed it quite a bit. I think that $5 for a practice target is a bit steep though, but that's my only issue.

Always find it interesting the results. So many talk about how easy it is, but there was only 14 that made the shootoff in the pro class out of the 120 or so shooters. Can't be that easy. I know there was talk about criteria to qualify to be a pro at one point, wonder if that will surface again at some point.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

the pro criteria i really hope they leave it alone,its always kinda neat when a unknown wins ! i also wish there would be live coverage to watch either on satellite or ? still wished they would always show state or country person is from and what bow brand person is shooting when listed for shoot and at the end of shoot too.


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

I think there are a lot of unknowns in the pro class that would still be there even with having to qualify. Just year in and year out theres a very large group of the same people that can't shoot a clean 600, let alone anything close to 120x. to me just waters down the division and just means there 75 available to pay. kind of like I can't walk on to augusta and pay 75 a year to shoot the masters


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

i never thought of the qualify ideal way, you do have a point, we both know why they let all these guys shoot the pro divisions its all about only Money.but you are right many call themselves pros but can not even shoot a clean 300 let alone 600. but what do you do with the pro women division? i would say should be the same as men`s division most be clean 300 too.here`s maybe the way to handle the pro F.S. divisions the first day if you don`t shoot a clean 300 your out and when they start shooting the second day if they shoot a 4 that archer is done and out.> here`s another sad deal giving a silver bowl to some of those classes with just a couple people in it is wrong also,what they should get is a $3.00 medal not a bowl we all know why they shoot that class. "but you and i know it will all continue the way it is"


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Pete53 said:


> the pro criteria i really hope they leave it alone,its always kinda neat when a unknown wins ! i also wish there would be live coverage to watch either on satellite or ? still wished they would always show state or country person is from and what bow brand person is shooting when listed for shoot and at the end of shoot too.


...... I did the announcing for the Shootoff. I announced every state (and 2 Countries) for the shooter and a list of sponsors that the shooters wanted announced. Guess you missed that????


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Pete53 said:


> i never thought of the qualify ideal way, you do have a point, we both know why they let all these guys shoot the pro divisions its all about only Money.but you are right many call themselves pros but can not even shoot a clean 300 let alone 600. but what do you do with the pro women division? i would say should be the same as men`s division most be clean 300 too.here`s maybe the way to handle the pro F.S. divisions the first day if you don`t shoot a clean 300 your out and when they start shooting the second day if they shoot a 4 that archer is done and out.> here`s another sad deal giving a silver bowl to some of those classes with just a couple people in it is wrong also,what they should get is a $3.00 medal not a bowl we all know why they shoot that class. "but you and i know it will all continue the way it is"


We tried eliminating bowls last year.... NFAA Directors overturned the council in a line vote. ...


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Pete53 said:


> the pro criteria i really hope they leave it alone,its always kinda neat when a unknown wins ! i also wish there would be live coverage to watch either on satellite or ? still wished they would always show state or country person is from and what bow brand person is shooting when listed for shoot and at the end of shoot too.


When an unknown wins??? Seriously?. Mike Schloesser, unknown?? he's got a box full of work records including a perfect 600 in FITA. Been on countless world teams, finalist for Vegas etc... I wouldnt call him an unknown by any stretch


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

gcab said:


> Great tournament by NFAA this weekend. Real improvements made over the last couple years, and its appreciated. Line times and lane assignments were out quick so people could plan accordingly. That is great. Definitely appreciate that. Results up quickly. Even better communication for line judges to the booth to cut back on issues in the past. Enjoyed it quite a bit. I think that $5 for a practice target is a bit steep though, but that's my only issue.
> 
> Always find it interesting the results. So many talk about how easy it is, but there was only 14 that made the shootoff in the pro class out of the 120 or so shooters. Can't be that easy. I know there was talk about criteria to qualify to be a pro at one point, wonder if that will surface again at some point.


Thanks G - 
Yes I agree ... you could tell the staff was really trying hard! I'm sure they will appreciate it  

Hopefully we can get some kind of qualifying score to apply for Pros, I'm on that page with you... needs to mean something not just buying a card.


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

I really enjoyed watching everyone shoot this year. It was a very good turn out


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

Great tournament as all ways,I think the crowd misses a lot though when the senior pro's get to their shoot off.Would be nice if the crowd was treated to the same info,and sponsor accolades as the regular mens open pro's.After all we have been shooting when most of these guys were in diapers.And we still are as much professional shooters.Just maybe a suggestion for next year.The only difference is we tend to forget who won last year,but we are seniors after all,LOL


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

blueglide1 said:


> Great tournament as all ways,I think the crowd misses a lot though when the senior pro's get to their shoot off.Would be nice if the crowd was treated to the same info,and sponsor accolades as the regular mens open pro's.After all we have been shooting when most of these guys were in diapers.And we still are as much professional shooters.Just maybe a suggestion for next year.The only difference is we tend to forget who won last year,but we are seniors after all,LOL


Very much agreed.... same for the women... 
Wasnt my call. :/


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

FV Chuck said:


> ...... I did the announcing for the Shootoff. I announced every state (and 2 Countries) for the shooter and a list of sponsors that the shooters wanted announced. Guess you missed that????


I could be off base, but I think, and I know I certainly would like to see, the State that each shooter that participates in the event is from in the RESULTS LISTING for ALL NFAA tournaments, not just the Nationals. 
The information (their addresses and State) is part of the registration process, simply add a column to the database and feed the data in. It is only two keystrokes, or if the NFAA database is fancied up, then that can be automated to be imported into the Results listing. Then the information is obviously automatically on the RESULTS listing that is on the web-site and published in the NFAA Magazine. It isn't difficult to accomplish and is easily automated with registration.
As far as the equipment being shot, that is OK, but I don't see it as necessary as much as which State each competitor in the tournament calls home.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

Why need someones state? Equipment used isn't needed, but someones state which has nothing to do with shooting is? Why? just curious


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

I would like to say thanks to the staff & all of the workers at Louisville for all the hard work that it takes to put on that shoot . I know what it is because I've been there. without them , there is no shoot
Thanks again.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

brtesite said:


> I would like to say thanks to the staff & all of the workers at Louisville for all the hard work that it takes to put on that shoot . I know what it is because I've been there. without them , there is no shoot
> Thanks again.


What he said.
Joe B.


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## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

Pete53 said:


> the pro criteria i really hope they leave it alone,its always kinda neat when a unknown wins ! i also wish there would be live coverage to watch either on satellite or ? still wished they would always show state or country person is from and what bow brand person is shooting when listed for shoot and at the end of shoot too.


When has an "unknown" ever won vegas or nationals?


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

Brad Rega said:


> When has an "unknown" ever won vegas or nationals?


I can think of a couple. Chance was a relatively unknown when he won Vegas his first time. Russell Payne was an unknown (at least to me) when he won just a couple of years ago. I'm sure if you looked at the list of previous winners, you could find a few unknowns.


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

Why a score criteria to be a pro? That would be cutting their financial throats. If there was there is really only about 20 or so that are consistently making the shootoffs and they would either have to pay a whole lot more or raise the entry and pilfer from the amateur ranks. I don't think that would be well received either.

Being a pro isn't just about being able to shoot perfect scores, a pro is supposed to be an ambassador to the sport. They are supposed to promote the sport and sponsors. There are some "Pros" that don't act like it even though they can shoot well.

Thank you to all who worked so hard to put on another great shoot.


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

sharkred7 said:


> Why a score criteria to be a pro? That would be cutting their financial throats. If there was there is really only about 20 or so that are consistently making the shootoffs and they would either have to pay a whole lot more or raise the entry and pilfer from the amateur ranks. I don't think that would be well received either.
> 
> Being a pro isn't just about being able to shoot perfect scores, a pro is supposed to be an ambassador to the sport. They are supposed to promote the sport and sponsors. There are some "Pros" that don't act like it even though they can shoot well.
> 
> Thank you to all who worked so hard to put on another great shoot.


Why is that for archery and not all sports? Serious question not being a jerk. I just don't get that. I'm not good enough for NFL so I can't just pay $100 to be there. Or mlb or nba. You can't even do that for a minor league indoor soccer team. So because it's archery it should be pay 75 and call it good? Doesn't make sense to me. And no shouldn't be based on 1 score. Everyone has a bad day or few months. Even in the big sports. But there should be something besides 75 and a pair of non Jean pants for a tournament


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

brtesite said:


> I would like to say thanks to the staff & all of the workers at Louisville for all the hard work that it takes to put on that shoot . I know what it is because I've been there. without them , there is no shoot
> Thanks again.


Very Much Xs 2 or 200.Not enough praise for the tireless efforts of the set up and take down crew,and the officials that work this so we can enjoy our sport!! Oh ,and you Chuck for the great voice behind the mike.I know it's not your call,LOL


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

Brad Rega said:


> When has an "unknown" ever won vegas or nationals?


M Schlosser might not be a household name here in the USA,but he's the man over in Europe."Mr. Perfect" moniker didn't come by accident.He is a force on the target arena there.So now this "unknown" has won Vegas,and Nationals.Will people recognize the name now?There are a few more that are up ,and coming here also from overseas,and Canada. Christopher Perkins,Stephan Hansen,Martin Damsbo,who has been around for awhile also.They all gotta start somewhere.


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

gcab said:


> Why is that for archery and not all sports? Serious question not being a jerk. I just don't get that. I'm not good enough for NFL so I can't just pay $100 to be there. Or mlb or nba. You can't even do that for a minor league indoor soccer team. So because it's archery it should be pay 75 and call it good? Doesn't make sense to me. And no shouldn't be based on 1 score. Everyone has a bad day or few months. Even in the big sports. But there should be something besides 75 and a pair of non Jean pants for a tournament


I'm 100% on board with this...
And not a killer perfect score either, but a show of proficiency... I remember shooting with a fella a few years back who had never even shot a 300 on a blue face. His high was like a 296 or something... but he had a Pro Card. 
Now on one hand I wanted to congratulate him and welcome him with open arms but on the other I was like ... man this is gonna hurt for a while dude. Your gonna get beat pretty soundly. I think it's incumbent on us as Pros to encourage and foster the idea and growth of a Pro Membership but there has to be a point of invitation or a basic show of skill. I've got a plan laid out that I'll be sharing in my notes as I run for election as Pro Chair. 

Gladiators used to grab slaves who didn't know how to fight to fill the arena and pad the paychecks...No reason for us to do the same thing.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

really doesn`t anyone think it was kinda an unknown this year 2015 in vegas who won in male pro F.S. ? not a big pro name in archery yet but was neat to see him win. great win Alex Wilfer ! my reasoning for the bow brand to be mentioned on paper is this the big bad bow companies likes to mention the name" the other bow company" instead of the bow company name when dave barnsdale has won Vegas in the past with his classic-x barnsdale bow,another example of the little guy with a kinda unknown bow brand. so ya why not put it on paper or on the internet for all to see the country or state and the bow brand, not all of us want to go to vegas or the nationals but are interested in results and where a person is from,and bow brand used.many of us bowhunters save our extra money to hunt with when raising a family,many can`t afford do it all ,some like me don`t like crowds much or cities but are more home in the mountains and northern woods" we need our space and solitude" but we still enjoy archery alot and as sonny mentions: we are the backyard champions. but all archers should have this goal in archery: help archery grow and help our youth enjoy archery ! have a great 2015 in the archery world in target and or hunting world ! Pete53


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

My apologies,I thought you were talking about Mike Schlosser winning Nationals as the unknown this year.Alex Wifler has been a mid west fixture for a number of years,but not in the compound arena.He has been primarily a recurve archer.He switched to compound just this past year or so.Shot with him many times here in Wis,and Ill.Nice guy and a pleasure to be around.His mother made sure of that while dragging him around the archery circuit.Good job by her for sure.Winning Vegas wasn't a sure thing for him to dominate Nationals shooting a 59x on Sat.He was pretty much done at that point.So it's the good day bad day theory of archery that we all suffer from,LOL New archers come up all the time,and the rest of us just get older ,and pushed out of the way.Some of us are lucky enough to retain the skills that keep us towards the top no and then but the bad days are just more numerous.hahaha


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

gcab said:


> Why is that for archery and not all sports? Serious question not being a jerk. I just don't get that. I'm not good enough for NFL so I can't just pay $100 to be there. Or mlb or nba. You can't even do that for a minor league indoor soccer team. So because it's archery it should be pay 75 and call it good? Doesn't make sense to me. And no shouldn't be based on 1 score. Everyone has a bad day or few months. Even in the big sports. But there should be something besides 75 and a pair of non Jean pants for a tournament


The difference is the audience, we pay to watch all those other sports and sponsors pour in money and they sell merchandise. Our sport is different as we are completely self sufficient. I know its a serious question and a good debate. You have some valid points but, once again we don't have big sponsors throwing cash around so it has to come from us. 

I also believe a Pro should be PROficient with their equipment but doesn't have to be perfect. A lot of people on pro staffs are there because they PROmote and sell product. Also correct me if I'm wrong but don't you need $75 AND a pro sponsor? If that is the case then there you have an avenue for correction.

Another option is only have X number of pro positions available and you have to qualify and maintain your standing in, say the top 200 or you lose your card. (like golf)

Another possible option, do away with the Pro moniker, have a money class and flight class. Pro ams could be run like Iowa where if you shoot in a money class you shoot the pro am as a pro.

So, there are some possible sugestios and this is what a good debate should have, not a bunch of bickering and my way or the hyway attitude if we want to make some positive changes.

John


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

sharkred7 said:


> The difference is the audience, we pay to watch all those other sports and sponsors pour in money and they sell merchandise. Our sport is different as we are completely self sufficient. I know its a serious question and a good debate. You have some valid points but, once again we don't have big sponsors throwing cash around so it has to come from us.
> 
> I also believe a Pro should be PROficient with their equipment but doesn't have to be perfect. A lot of people on pro staffs are there because they PROmote and sell product. Also correct me if I'm wrong but don't you need $75 AND a pro sponsor? If that is the case then there you have an avenue for correction.
> 
> ...


I see your point. and I see Chucks. To me, at the end of the day, there needs to be a score part of it. That's what makes the pro shooters pro shooters and not coaches. Meaning it was said to be proficient with equipment. I know a great number of people, that are really really good at equipment, setting it up, tuning, fixing, and being able to shoot it.. but not be able to shoot scores that should be considered pro. If I can fix an engine, that doesn't necessarily mean I should be a pro nascar driver. Or if I can shoot a free throw, again, not NBA. So I think score has to be a part of it. I know there is a pro sponsor part, but from others I have seen that decided to shoot in that class, it was a phone call to some other pro and then there it was. I get the class could become smaller. and probably would. but I think the quality would go up and long term get right back to it. There are so many people outside the sport that ask how one becomes a pro archer, and the answer truthfully at this point.. .pay $75 and higher entry fees. Then follow up is don't you have to qualify or win something first? Nope.. just $75. Granted there are numerous pros that have earned their stripes and have competed at that high of a level and have won and been competitive even when not winning. But look through the score lists. Really once you get past the top say..20, maybe 30 for vegas.. no one else is even competitive. And then you look at the bottom and its usually the same names. So sure they are donating to the class, and probably learning some stuff, and getting experience shooting next to those archers.. But they can get the same thing from the amateur class as well.. Look at the top scores there.. they are pretty competitive. So to me, it seems like just an ego thing of not accepting that it is just 75 that gave them the pro name. And I think that hurts the class more than helps. Just some of my opinions. and like you said, not bickering just sharing opinion.


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

Waaay back it used to be required that you were presented to the class by another Pro,you had to have their sponsorship in a way.Those days are long gone.You would have been invited to the Pro class by the NFAA from scores in your state and sectionals,if you won either,or placed in the top three I believe.CHPRO would remember the details. The NFAA would invite you to join the Pro class.The sponsoring Pro would sign off on your ability,and the fact that you would represent the Pro class in a positive way.But now- a- days I guess if somebody wanted to lose their money continually,I guess it's their right to do so.Some just like the better line times,"not 7am" LOL I had multiple state titles but never was invited,and we are talking mid to upper 80s early 90s.So they seemed to have dropped that way of doing it long ago.But you also have to remember that scores of the perfect 300 on the five spot were not all that common like today.298,299 were pretty darn good back then.300 with 40x you were a God among men.


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## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

pro is really nothing than an expert class. Very few pros are actually "professionals" in that they compete for a living. Shooting a certain score to be eligible to shoot pro would add some more meaning to it, but is it really a big deal? The more people competing in the pro division, the more money can be made, thats what we all want right? I think its fine for people to enter the pro division even if they have never shot a 300 in their life. Its not hurting anyone. 

I turned pro when I was 18 and did fairly well. Though I did not have the time or finances to have a good enough chance of winning so I went back to the amateur class where I would save a hundred bucks or so and get the same experience. 

IMO competitions do not pay out well enough. Too much money goes to first place. it is often even getting third place doesn't even pay the expenses it took to get to the competition. Winners of competitions also get money from sponsors. It must really suck to go to vegas, shoot a 900, and come home with $1000, barely breaking even. First place could be $20,000 and higher payouts could be given, and be given deeper into the field. in vegas I would have a much better chance of winning more money by throwing my registration down on a single number on the roulette table. It takes some damn good shooting to get a 900 in Vegas, or a 120X at nationals. The one lucky guy who makes it to the end gets a great payday while the others who really shot just as well makes less than 5% of what the top guy made? I think they deserve more.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

gcab said:


> Why need someones state? Equipment used isn't needed, but someones state which has nothing to do with shooting is? Why? just curious


There are lots of people with the same first and last names. Thus it gets next to impossible to tell who is whom.
Another reason is that SOME States like to put together things concerning how their State's members did in the tournament and some even compare their individual State Members' scores to those in their NFAA Section.
Without the STATE information, especially on a National level, it becomes impossible. WITH the State information, it is a snap to collate the data, sort it how you want and get "counts" of representations from each State and Section right from the database, within a few clicks.
So, IMHO, the addition of a single two key-stroke column is very easily accomplished during the registration process and is so usable for other "information gathering," Writing about the tournament and all sorts of good stuff.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

I do have one more question for those of you who know how the NFAA runs better than I. I thought Nationals was a National event. I see now it has gone international with an international winner. So my question is, How do you claim nationality to one country yet shoot in the national event for another? Is it just join the NFAA and you are in? If so, then we should drop the "National" moniker and call it the NFAA indoor championship.

Just so it is not taken out of context, I don't care who shoots it and I enjoy watching the likes of Mike Schlosser shoot, I was just surprised when I saw him walking around the trade show.

John


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

sharkred7 said:


> I do have one more question for those of you who know how the NFAA runs better than I. I thought Nationals was a National event. I see now it has gone international with an international winner. So my question is, How do you claim nationality to one country yet shoot in the national event for another? Is it just join the NFAA and you are in? If so, then we should drop the "National" moniker and call it the NFAA indoor championship.
> 
> Just so it is not taken out of context, I don't care who shoots it and I enjoy watching the likes of Mike Schlosser shoot, I was just surprised when I saw him walking around the trade show.
> 
> John


I believe it is offered to countries that don't have a similar program available. Same as Canada. So if nothing available, then they are eligible but has to affiliate with one state.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

i too always wondered how none u.s. citizens could shoot at the nfaa national shoot.i could see if they had a guest class ? but they are not a citizen of our country,really the nfaa should change the name of this archery shoot somehow. my other guestion is : how would we know which state mike schlosser affliated with ? here`s another reason why that should be included for all to see on person`s registration and then it should be home country/affilation state ? but some of us would yes still like to know bow brand of each shooter.


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## RickT (Mar 14, 2009)

An individual residing in a foreign country not presently affiliated with the NFAA may
apply for NFAA membership through an affiliated NFAA state or foreign country
association of his choice without prejudice, and shall be granted the same rights and
privileges as all other members of that association. Appropriate NFAA and state
association dues shall apply, except that a 10% surcharge may be applied for foreign
mailing of publications and correspondence.

From the NFAA Constitution/Bylaws. Also, Europe is considered to be part of the New England Section.


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

RickT said:


> An individual residing in a foreign country not presently affiliated with the NFAA may
> apply for NFAA membership through an affiliated NFAA state or foreign country
> association of his choice without prejudice, and shall be granted the same rights and
> privileges as all other members of that association. Appropriate NFAA and state
> ...


Excellent post. Thank you. 
Additionally it's important to recognize that NFAA is under the IFAA umbrella. Thats the International Field Archery Assn... 

I do find it somewhat disappointing that this is even a topic when Mike wins yet for as long as I can remember Dietmar has been coming down, Camilla Soemod, Chris Perkins since he was a kid?... 
*sigh.


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## Auzz00 (Feb 11, 2011)

I do want to mention that there is an aspect to the sport and term pro that I have not seen mentioned. I typically remain fairly neutral on matters of debate, yet on this one I feel we could benefit from a different viewpoint. Yes, there are many shooters who are proficient in their craft and surely some who aren't. I feel the avenue we often miss the exit on in the professional division is - those individuals who may not be a perfect shooter, but do tremendous things in their local shops, communities, and affiliations. The word professional does not always need to run parallel with the performance of perfection in this case they are PROmotional Professionals. A good steward of the sport and instrumental in its growth. Somewhat of a 'subject matter expert' and of primary drive and focus rather than hobby. 

That being said the issue of gatekeeping is always relevant in any activity and or body of collective minds in which we have this area on our Professional forms for an endorsement by a professional. If the endorsement section of the application was taken serious by the endorser there would be questions to be answered such as: Does this person you are endorsing follow the rules and regulations set forth by the NFAA constitution and bylaws? Does the person endorsed represent the sport and organization as a whole in a manner conducive with the code of conduct? Do you endorse the person to be an adequate representative of the title of Professional? I could go on by generating arbitrary questions but you get the point.. Endorsement should be viewed as a serious obligation and if taken as one any small number of individuals slipping through the cracks from that point forward should cease to exist. The problem then eliminates itself. 

Austin


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

Auzz00 said:


> I do want to mention that there is an aspect to the sport and term pro that I have not seen mentioned. I typically remain fairly neutral on matters of debate, yet on this one I feel we could benefit from a different viewpoint. Yes, there are many shooters who are proficient in their craft and surely some who aren't. I feel the avenue we often miss the exit on in the professional division is - those individuals who may not be a perfect shooter, but do tremendous things in their local shops, communities, and affiliations. The word professional does not always need to run parallel with the performance of perfection in this case they are PROmotional Professionals. A good steward of the sport and instrumental in its growth. Somewhat of a 'subject matter expert' and of primary drive and focus rather than hobby.
> 
> That being said the issue of gatekeeping is always relevant in any activity and or body of collective minds in which we have this area on our Professional forms for an endorsement by a professional. If the endorsement section of the application was taken serious by the endorser there would be questions to be answered such as: Does this person you are endorsing follow the rules and regulations set forth by the NFAA constitution and bylaws? Does the person endorsed represent the sport and organization as a whole in a manner conducive with the code of conduct? Do you endorse the person to be an adequate representative of the title of Professional? I could go on by generating arbitrary questions but you get the point.. Endorsement should be viewed as a serious obligation and if taken as one any small number of individuals slipping through the cracks from that point forward should cease to exist. The problem then eliminates itself.
> 
> Austin


Not an argument, but a serious question based on the example given in the first part. If I wear a pair of Air Jordans to promote some Nike stuff, and pay $75, would that make me a professional basketball player? Promoting things doesn't make someone a professional shooter. Not saying they don't do good for the sport, but it doesn't make them professional shooter.


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## rn3 (Jan 4, 2008)

In golf there are pro's who don't play on tour but are still PGA professional's.


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## Auzz00 (Feb 11, 2011)

> In golf there are pro's who don't play on tour but are still PGA professional's.


My point exactly. It's a fine line where quite a few variables exist; this could likely be solved by enforcing endoresment or a probationary term. 

Just ideas folks


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

They don't play or they can't play good enough to be competitive? Were they good enough at one point? Qualified for it some how? I don't really know how gold works at all. But can I, who averages probably 3 over a hole just pay some money and be a professional golfer?


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

qcab, yep, just find an old golf hat- pay the pro fee and look`s like your now a golf pro. maybe start smoke`n cigars too ? the only rule might be no cheap beer when golf`n ?


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## Clarise (Jan 13, 2011)

Funny that Pete53 seems to know everything about everyone! " here`s another sad deal giving a silver bowl to some of those classes with just a couple people in it is wrong also,what they should get is a $3.00 medal not a bowl _we all know why they shoot that class_. "but you and i know it will all continue the way it is"

As a person who shot in one of the smaller classes at Louisville I will let you know that we didn't choose to shoot because we knew there would be a few of us. We shot because that is the style of archery that we prefer. Just because 100 other people don't choose to shoot that way is not our problem. I could care less what the prize is at the end of the day - it's the enjoyment that I get out of my shooting that brings me back. Maybe you better stop making your assumptions based on why YOU might choose to do something.


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## Paradox (Nov 7, 2002)

Brad Rega said:


> When has an "unknown" ever won vegas or nationals?


Probably the best story was Billy Myers. He won Indoor Nationals back in 2002...and paid his pro dues the day of the tournament. Story goes that he asked how much money he could win shooting in AMFS...and when they said "none" he asked what division he could win money in.


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