# anyone else upset over Kentucky's open C?



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Thats interesting and good point! Like to hear more about this.
DB


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

You cant have a winner when neither half of the class shoots the same Targets for unknown or known. Never seen anything like it.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

genohuh said:


> You cant have a winner when neither half of the class shoots the same Targets for unknown or known. Never seen anything like it.


Called luck of the draw class.
DB


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

If I shot Range H first target 10 and I shot a 40 yatd target for 35 bcause it fooled me and I hit a 5, everyone in that Class should have to shoot that same target unknown. That didnt hsppen.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Are you sure about that?

Normally Mike still keeps the ranges known and unknown, ie the H range is the unknown range and the G range is the known range, regardless of which you shot first.

I wasn't there so I do not know what happened, I just know how Mike usually handles it.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

There was a lot of talk about this

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Interesting lain:


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

move to semi they treat that class better:wink:


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

I shot it im very sure. I shot Semi years ago will be going back..


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

well threre you go if you shot semi before you are not a novice shooter so you have no reason to be in a novice class


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

treeman65 said:


> well threre you go if you shot semi before you are not a novice shooter so you have no reason to be in a novice class


That was 2000.. 3 heart attacks and a pacemaker later I wanted to shoot again. 3 years ago I shot in my first Tourny since. I pulled the lead out of my heart shooting. Surgery fixed it so I wantrd to get my feet wet for the last 3 Tournaments. Thats why C...


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## boweng (Aug 7, 2006)

I shot g in the morning at unknown and H in the afternoon as known. I take it this isn't how everyone did it? I assumed those that shot H in the morning did it as known distance then. Doesn't particularly matter to me at this point since I wasn't even remotely in the hunt on either course but if I was close to winning it I'd be worried about the consistency of it.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Usually everyone shooys the.same Range unknown in the morning then the other Range known in the evening. My point is thays no difference than having two C classes. If there is 1 winner out of 114 people then all 114 should shoot the same course. And no everyone that shot H in the morning also shot it for unknown...


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## ABTABB (Apr 4, 2007)

My Dad and oldest Son shot Open C.. Have to admit that was a little strange, and all the C shooters definitely could have fit on one range.? Really have no clue why it was done that way, I did hear Mike T make an announcement that some classes were larger than expected, and changes had to be made.. I do know Women's K-40 had Their highest attendance of the year (My Wife finished 3rd) and They shoot the same ranges, but different times.?


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## wvlongshot (Aug 11, 2008)

One of the guys on my stake to start with asked if he was on the right range. Looked at his card and he was to start on same target on different range. Right then we knew something wasn't going to turn out right.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

genohuh said:


> I personally have never seen a more screwed up Class in my life. How can you have 1 winner when half the Class didnt shoot the same Targets. H Range shot it unknown G shot theirs unknown. Then at 3 there switched ranges and shot known.


wasting your time moaning here take it to the asa forum and tell them how you feel


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## yardagegusser (Jun 11, 2005)

DAN.
That's not luck of luck of the draw. open C is class . It should be treated like the rest of the classes. We don't need people move out of C to other classes and fill them up.
I shot open B with 105 shooter it took 4.5 hours to shoot sat.


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## mh532 (Jun 24, 2008)

The only problem I had was waiting until almost 4:30 that afternoon before we got to shoot. It made for a very long day.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

very tiring to shoot all dau. Some get to shoot it in 2 days the playinh fields shoulf be exactly the same


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Well, open B had to shoot lower 12s on both days....I don't think your going to hear any belly aching about that. LOL


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## gaberichter (Aug 31, 2008)

I would have rather shot H Known as I shot that range in the team shoot and they didnt move any targets. G ripped me a new one as my unknown range. I also had both guys in my group 100% new to ASA. In those dark tunnels it would have been nice to have an arrow to go off of every once in a while. Not complaining though. Im used to ASA treating OC like wicked step children.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

yardagegusser said:


> DAN.
> That's not luck of luck of the draw. open C is class . It should be treated like the rest of the classes. We don't need people move out of C to other classes and fill them up.
> I shot open B with 105 shooter it took 4.5 hours to shoot sat.


the keep word in your post is ''should'' unfornunately open c and bow novice is not treated the same


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

yardagegusser said:


> DAN.
> That's not luck of luck of the draw. open C is class . It should be treated like the rest of the classes. We don't need people move out of C to other classes and fill them up.
> I shot open B with 105 shooter it took 4.5 hours to shoot sat.


No kidding, that was a joke. Everyone traveling that far should shoot same targets and stakes.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3Dblackncamo said:


> wasting your time moaning here take it to the asa forum and tell them how you feel


No harm in discussing it here! Seems like a very good argument
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

bhtr3d said:


> Well, open B had to shoot lower 12s on both days....I don't think your going to hear any belly aching about that. LOL


Why all the rule changes?
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

My buddy was sitting at the wrong stake saturday morning - H14 I believe.

When he moved to the G range afterwards I asked him how it went an he said pretty good; but I wish I judged a little better. Thats when the questions started......

Now shooting all low 12s I would be really excited about.

that takes some getting used too.....but shooting at the majority of 14s after a horrible start in unknown really doesnt solidfy a score when you shoot as bad as I do.


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## 918hoytman918 (Jan 20, 2012)

I shot h unknown for the morning, g known for the evening. I just figured g in the morning was shootin unknown like us. Same way it was in Texas if I'm not mistaken. Besides all 40 in one day.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

What about the targets with the lower 12 shaped like the letter D and some of the lower 12's where not even connected to the center ring...


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

918hoytman918 said:


> I shot h unknown for the morning, g known for the evening. I just figured g in the morning was shootin unknown like us. Same way it was in Texas if I'm not mistaken. Besides all 40 in one day.


G did shoot unknown sat morning. Thats the point they didnt shoot the same targts unknown or known. In Augusta we all shot thr samw range for unknown then we all shot the same known range. Not in KY.. do you think open pro would settle a winner with some not shooting the same targets. Right is right wrong is wrong


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

I shot Super sr we shot the same ranges .I would have liked to shoot the H range known it kicked my butt .


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## 918hoytman918 (Jan 20, 2012)

genohuh said:


> G did shoot unknown sat morning. Thats the point they didnt shoot the same targts unknown or known. In Augusta we all shot thr samw range for unknown then we all shot the same known range. Not in KY.. do you think open pro would settle a winner with some not shooting the same targets. Right is right wrong is wrong


No I didn't say open pro would settle for that. I just said what happened for me in KY and TX. I didn't shoot augusta and I didn't comment on Augusta.


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## BowtechGirl13 (Jul 17, 2010)

My boyfriend won Open C with a 420 and shot G range the first round as unknown which was supposed to be the "harder" course and shot 8 up and H as known so I dont think anyone was cheated for the win...


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## enabear722 (Oct 10, 2005)

I am new to the ASA game but would like to see Open C shoot both days Sat/ Sun. Would kinda give you a night to think on things. Which ever way the ASA still puts on a GREAT shoot.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

genohuh said:


> I personally have never seen a more screwed up Class in my life. How can you have 1 winner when half the Class didnt shoot the same Targets. H Range shot it unknown G shot theirs unknown. Then at 3 there switched ranges and shot known.


that sounds as if someone messed up. too bad for the guys shooting open c.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

Need to take it to the ASA forum so mike can chime in. If it was really shot the way then there needs to be 2 winners for open c.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

BowtechGirl13 said:


> My boyfriend won Open C with a 420 and shot G range the first round as unknown which was supposed to be the "harder" course and shot 8 up and H as known so I dont think anyone was cheated for the win...


Who said anyone cheated. Archers had no choice. All shooters should shoot the same course or it not fair. It not rocket science for us all to see this. I wouldnt drive two states to shoot against archers who didn't shoot the same targets.
DB


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

I know if you call Mike from ASA he will be more than happy to answer your questions!!!! Hes always answered when I called!!!

Also I know of a guy who won his Shoote of the Year Class at his state level and won two if not more qualifiers and is still being allowed to compete at a state and national level in OPEN C......


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Too many open classes.......


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

J Whittington said:


> Too many open classes.......


Amen Jerry!


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## BowtechGirl13 (Jul 17, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> Who said anyone cheated. Archers had no choice. All shooters should shoot the same course or it not fair. It not rocket science for us all to see this. I wouldnt drive two states to shoot against archers who didn't shoot the same targets.
> DB


ok all im saying is you can complain all you want but 114 people had to shoot 40 targets...20 known and 20 unknown and they all have the same scoring rings and in the end you have a winner.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

BowtechGirl13 said:


> ok all im saying is you can complain all you want but 114 people had to shoot 40 targets...20 known and 20 unknown and they all have the same scoring rings and in the end you have a winner.


No everyone didnt shoot the same ranges and distances. It a big difference. Never to my knowledge has this ever been done before. If your going to do this than change the rules so archers can make a choice whether they want to be part of this. ASA set rules and everyone reads those rules. If I shoot 40 targets and there different than what you shot that never fair.
DB


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

J Whittington said:


> Too many open classes.......



here here!


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

D B im so glad you get it! no one cheated Kudos to the winner. I wasnt that far off the leader sat morn. But this isnt about winning its about fairness. Really not enough room shouldnt be used, we only had 3 shooters per stake.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Yeah it was a really weird deal. I still dont know if it was the range officials call or Mikes. The ASA forum is down, so cant bring it up there.

It comes down to a fairness deal - not saying those that won wouldnt have won anyways. Its just one of those things to take away all doubts, and issues like this.

Congrats on the win to your BF that is awesome.


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## ROKFISHIN (Aug 5, 2004)

I was one of the fortunate ones to shoot Open C on Saturday and Sunday. (Well maybe. We had to shoot with the Womens known 40, and they were SUPER slow) We shot H unknown on Saturday, and G known on Sunday. To me H had more long shots and a few targets were fairly tough to judge in the dark tunnels. I agree, that for fairness, everyone should have had to shoot the H range unknown, and the G range known, or vise versa. 
As always, it was a great time with great people.


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## coeboy (Feb 6, 2012)

The reason some of us shoot both days is because we have kids that shoot at 730 on sat morning that have to be supervised. Kinda hard to shoot with you when we're with them. If your on pse pro staff why are you worried what open c is doing?


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

coeboy said:


> The reason some of us shoot both days is because we have kids that shoot at 730 on sat morning that have to be supervised. Kinda hard to shoot with you when we're with them. If your on pse pro staff why are you worried what open c is doing?


I answered that a few post ago


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

ROKFISHIN said:


> I was one of the fortunate ones to shoot Open C on Saturday and Sunday. (Well maybe. We had to shoot with the Womens known 40, and they were SUPER slow) We shot H unknown on Saturday, and G known on Sunday. To me H had more long shots and a few targets were fairly tough to judge in the dark tunnels. I agree, that for fairness, everyone should have had to shoot the H range unknown, and the G range known, or vise versa.
> As always, it was a great time with great people.


I do feel ASA will make sure this is fixed. As for allowing some to shoot all 40 in oneday. I dont see that being a promblem
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

coeboy said:


> The reason some of us shoot both days is because we have kids that shoot at 730 on sat morning that have to be supervised. Kinda hard to shoot with you when we're with them. If your on pse pro staff why are you worried what open c is doing?


Shooting 40 targets in oneday has nothing about so you can go supervise you kid. If that was the case all classes should or would be allowed this. ASA set it up this way for a reason and wasnt for your conveniance. Most likely helps ASA with crowded ranges
Just so you know I see several sponsored shooters shooting Open C
DB
DB


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## birddawg (Jul 23, 2009)

Here is my .02 cents> I will post this on the ASA forum. Heck with this Half known half unknown we need to have unknown classes and known classes. If you want to shot known shoot a known class. No confusion pretty easy really, then it does not matter how many shooters you have over how many ranges. The other problem is lower 12 upper 12 call do not call hoopla. Put both in play all the time yea some guys will get lucky but the cream always comes to the top the best shooters will still win. I also think everyone needs to give the ASA a ton of credit of trying to adapt to the apparent increase in shooters which is what we all want anyway.


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## gaberichter (Aug 31, 2008)

I can only speak for those of us that shot h unknown and g known all in one day. But on the powerline lighting is everything and the G range was much more open and the targets revealed more definition than the H range with the exception of a few. And I am sure that the position of the sun in different times of the day affected this. Welcome to OC.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Babyk said:


> I know if you call Mike from ASA he will be more than happy to answer your questions!!!! Hes always answered when I called!!!
> 
> Also I know of a guy who won his Shoote of the Year Class at his state level and won two if not more qualifiers and is still being allowed to compete at a state and national level in OPEN C......


That needs to be handled by the State Rep. If he has not won out of Open C on the national level Mike and the folks will never move him. However, the state rep can move him based upon experience level, etc on the state level, and that follows up to the national level.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

reylamb said:


> That needs to be handled by the State Rep. If he has not won out of Open C on the national level Mike and the folks will never move him. However, the state rep can move him based upon experience level, etc on the state level, and that follows up to the national level.


Totally correct. State rep certianly should handle this.
DB


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## 918hoytman918 (Jan 20, 2012)

Still interested on where this is going. Like I said I have shot Texas and Kentucky the same way this year. If it's wrong it's wrong, I would just like to know. And what was the reason for holding up the crowd for g in the afternoon start? Also the 40 targets in one day shouldn't affect anybody. It was known from the start that it was going to be that way. Not something that was changed, always was posted that way from the beginning.


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## woodyw333 (Feb 9, 2010)

All I know is I was happy I placed where I did.. I went out there shot with a great group of guys and had a great time! For me that thats what its all about.. If I was wanting to try and win big money or trying to win a sponser then I would have registered in a different class, not open C. What was shot was shot fair or not like I said if your trying to win big go to a different class.. Just my $.02


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Once again this is a tournament. If you want to shoot for fun thats fine. But if an archers practicing and preparing for this he wants a fair playing field. I dont blame him. Unless all archers shoot the same targets it not fair.

Seems some dont realize the word tournament and compitition. Open C is a class to learn and grow hopefully into one of the higher classes. 
DB


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## IL CSS Shooter (Jan 12, 2007)

BabyK I think you need to call me so you can be set straight on your problems with the SOY and won two qualifier guy. I do not think you know what rules are in place for IL federation.


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## woodyw333 (Feb 9, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> Once again this is a tournament. If you want to shoot for fun thats fine. But if an archers practicing and preparing for this he wants a fair playing field. I dont blame him. Unless all archers shoot the same targets it not fair.
> 
> Seems some dont realize the word tournament and compitition. Open C is a class to learn and grow hopefully into one of the higher classes.
> DB


The same targets were shot.. what difference does it make if one was known and one wasnt?? If you are a good shooter it wouldnt matter if you knew the distance or not now would it?


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

IL CSS Shooter sent you a PM


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

IL CSS Shooter hopefully after you read my PM you will be able to "set me straight" as you wrote it!!


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

John-in-VA said:


> I shot Super sr we shot the same ranges .I would have liked to shoot the H range known it kicked my butt .


I can definately relate to that. I shot the H range unknown, and my yardage killed me. Oh well....next time.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

woodyw333 said:


> The same targets were shot.. what difference does it make if one was known and one wasnt?? If you are a good shooter it wouldnt matter if you knew the distance or not now would it?



Are you serious?


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

J Whittington said:


> Are you serious?


woodyw333 this may be the worst post I have ever seen on here sir!!!!


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Deffinately one of the more ignorant post I've seen. And there's been a lot of dumb arse comments made on at


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

woodyw333 said:


> The same targets were shot.. what difference does it make if one was known and one wasnt?? If you are a good shooter it wouldnt matter if you knew the distance or not now would it?


Makes a big difference if everyone doesn't shoot the same courses and targets. I myself wouldn't travel and shoot anything like that.
Just cant be fair. Now if everyone shoots the same targets unknown and same targets known thats how it should be. Never in all my life of 25yrs seen a class shoot different targets. So you dont see how it not fair honestly? 
DB
DB


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

The op needs to post this on the ASA forum and let's see what Mike says.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Well I shot H first I hit a arrow in the 12 it threw me down into a 5 so I finished H unknown 5 down. As far as a good time hmm lets review. Traveled 300 miles to shoot. After shooting the Team shoot finishing 14 up Fri I went to shoot the Simms. Then was told I couldnt sjoot til Sunday.. I wont be yhere Sunday. Then I found out the Range situation, I couldnt believe it. During the 2nd round sat im thinking atleast I can shoot tge speed rnd. NOT thay went on while we were shooting so another thing we couldmt do.. I finally shot the Simms sat. So Sat I shot 50 Targets. I was wore out. Fun? not really


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

outbackarcher said:


> The op needs to post this on the ASA forum and let's see what Mike says.


agreed. i checked and nothing there so far.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

I didn't post anything in the Asa forum yet. I signed up Monday and tge Admins have to approve me first


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

From the way I've been shooting lately, maybe I would be better off to shoot open C class. Seems that all you need, is to have an excuse to convince yourself that it's OK to drop back, even though it's against the rules, especially If you shot semi pro in the past. 
I feel more for those shooters who had to shoot against a former semi pro, than I do for a former semi pro who should not have been in open c class, then complains about how the shooters were not treated fair. I do agree that the open c shooters were not treated fair, especially if they had to compete against a former semi pro shooter. If everyone was in their proper class, maybe we would not have this complaint to begin with.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow, so even though its been 12 years and so many medical problems ucant count on both hands I shouldnt shoot a lesser class?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Dr.Dorite said:


> From the way I've been shooting lately, maybe I would be better off to shoot open C class. Seems that all you need, is to have an excuse to convince yourself that it's OK to drop back, even though it's against the rules, especially If you shot semi pro in the past.
> I feel more for those shooters who had to shoot against a former semi pro, than I do for a former semi pro who should not have been in open c class, then complains about how the shooters were not treated fair. I do agree that the open c shooters were not treated fair, especially if they had to compete against a former semi pro shooter. If everyone was in their proper class, maybe we would not have this complaint to begin with.


Really? The man hasn't shot Semi in over 10 years. On top of that I know a few Semi's that aren't exactly setting courses on fire as they are more "promoters" than anything. I don't know about this particular situation but just because you once were a semi-pro or even pro for that matter does not mean that you will always be on top.

BUT, I just looked at genohuh's profile and it says he is a "pro" for PSE. If you are truly a "pro" factory staff shooter you most likely shouldn't be shooting in "C". I'm a pin shooter. I didn't shoot Bow Novice even at my very 1st ASA shoot in '06.


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## RADAR72 (Feb 16, 2009)

I was one of the lucky ones that got to shoot Open C over two days. I shot H unknown on Saturday and G known on Sunday. I wasn't aware of the swapping of known and unknown among the courses till seeing this thread. That being said it does make a difference and should be an example of a mistake that shouldn't be made again. As far as the number of people who have been or are currently are pro or semi-pro there are classes lower than Pro & Semi-Pro that they can shoot that aren't NOVICE. Open A & B and Known classes are available for those who may have been out of the game for a while or just would like to step away from the pressure cooker feeling of the Pro & Semi-Pro classes.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

No where does it say im a Pro for anyone. ProStaff doesnt mean factory staff nor does it mean Pro. Ive shot Two Asa Tournaments in 12 years. Hardly a Pro.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Well please tell us what pro staff means? The word pro is shorter version of the word professional DUH!

Pro does not mean promotional either. When the average joe, non archery person, sees your insignia: Pro Staff they naturally assume your a pro. 

Sorry about your experience in C class in KY.


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## bowhunter_va_28 (Apr 28, 2003)

genohuh said:


> No where does it say im a Pro for anyone. ProStaff doesnt mean factory staff nor does it mean Pro. Ive shot Two Asa Tournaments in 12 years. Hardly a Pro.


"I just turned Pro for PSE and I love it" is what your biography says. How should that be interpreted?


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

PSE has called the promotional staff "Pro" staff since changing the name roughly 10 years ago from advisory staff. Pretty much every other archery company does the same. You guys just enjoy busting other peoples butt a bit too much some time.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

birddawg said:


> Here is my .02 cents> I will post this on the ASA forum. Heck with this Half known half unknown we need to have unknown classes and known classes. If you want to shot known shoot a known class. No confusion pretty easy really, then it does not matter how many shooters you have over how many ranges. The other problem is lower 12 upper 12 call do not call hoopla. Put both in play all the time yea some guys will get lucky but the cream always comes to the top the best shooters will still win. I also think everyone needs to give the ASA a ton of credit of trying to adapt to the apparent increase in shooters which is what we all want anyway.


I watched birddawg shoot a 41 yard, up hill shot in poor lighting and hit a 14. It was one of the most incredible shots I have ever seen. Your the man!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

J Whittington said:


> Well please tell us what pro staff means? The word pro is shorter version of the word professional DUH!
> 
> Pro does not mean promotional either. *When the average joe, non archery person, sees your insignia: Pro Staff they naturally assume your a pro.
> *
> Sorry about your experience in C class in KY.



Exactly the reason why so many folks will bend over to get "Pro Staff" put on their shirt!!! The manufacturers want novices to think "wow, look at all these 'pro's' using XYZ stuff!". The manufacturers and shops also know that if they just give a very small discount on product and a small discount on a "pro staff" shirt folks will pimp and advertise the heck out of it even if it is junk! Many spend a lot more money themselves just so they can continue to appear to some as a "pro". Anyone that has been around archery for just a short while knows that a "Pro staff" shirt covered in logos does NOT mean the wearer has anything more than modest archery knowledge.

genohuh, I am NOT specifically pointing at you! Please don't be offended or insulted as I am NOT saying you are anything less than professional in how you handle yourself.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

None taken, a Pro means making a living doing a certain deed. im no Pro. PSE does take care of its Team Pro members we get Free Bow a year and Accessories and discounts on other Archery products. Its promotional period. But how this got about me I dont know. This was and is about open C class gettong the shaft period.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

You are a wise man kent. You are one of the few who can actually see the truth be hind all the smoke screens

Yes, I Agee if what you say is true p, open C got shafted.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

J Whittington said:


> Well please tell us what pro staff means? The word pro is shorter version of the word professional DUH!
> 
> Pro does not mean promotional either. When the average joe, non archery person, sees your insignia: Pro Staff they naturally assume your a pro.
> 
> Sorry about your experience in C class in KY.


that is some funny crap there.


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## birddawg (Jul 23, 2009)

Hey thanks Jim I am glad you liked it! Wish I could do em all that way!


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## brad-g (Feb 21, 2011)

I thought it was a joke before it started. I talked to the range official and he said both ranges were to be shot unknown then flip flop to known in the afternoon. I was like how does that work?? He looked at me like I was stupid so I just walked away and laughed..My score wasn't near what I thought it should be so I should complain but whatever its done not much we can do now. I thought both ranges were very simular in distance and both had advantages to being known or unknown, but in reality either way you look at it you really weren't shooting the "SAME" range anyhow considering the lighting differance with 7 hours between range flips and lighting was huge there imo


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## woodyw333 (Feb 9, 2010)

Ok so yeah I can see why yall complaining about how Open C was ran.. But has anyone heard from Mike or anything on the ASA forum about this? I guess my views are different than yalls and guess what?? Thats one of the many things that makes this country as great as it is.. Freedom of speech! Either way I am happy with the way I shot and thats what counts to me. In the spirit of trying to stay positive I hope that everything gets worked out for yall in Ill. and Alabama..


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## tagmaster10 (Jan 26, 2011)

genohuh said:


> None taken, a Pro means making a living doing a certain deed. im no Pro. PSE does take care of its Team Pro members we get Free Bow a year and Accessories and discounts on other Archery products. Its promotional period. But how this got about me I dont know. This was and is about open C class gettong the shaft period.


I guess I am confused about one thing. If you have been out of the game for 10 years, how did you get a deal with PSE? I have been trying to get that deal for a while now and while I am not at the top of the Hunter class, most of the time, I am in the top 5 and have 1 ASA qualifier win. My Pro/Am scores have not been great and this may be one reason my PSE rep hasn't put me on yet. I am guessing that you are friends with your rep, have some kind of connection to get PSE to put you on as a pro staff shooter. Still doesn't make sense to me, but I am happy for you.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

tagmaster10 said:


> I guess I am confused about one thing. If you have been out of the game for 10 years, how did you get a deal with PSE? I have been trying to get that deal for a while now and while I am not at the top of the Hunter class, most of the time, I am in the top 5 and have 1 ASA qualifier win. My Pro/Am scores have not been great and this may be one reason my PSE rep hasn't put me on yet. I am guessing that you are friends with your rep, have some kind of connection to get PSE to put you on as a pro staff shooter. Still doesn't make sense to me, but I am happy for you.


I win alot of local and I hunt all over. I did not know my rep. I have a good local name and its on me to push PSE. Its not always abouy ASA


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## laztaz5 (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, I do know that ASA feels that bow novice and Open C are made up mostly from your local shooters in the area. This was the answer I was given after Augusta when I complained about shooting all day on SAT. I travel to most of the shoots so a local shooter I'm NOT. Until we bring things to Mike at ASA will this get changed. I go to these shoots to try and get better each and ever shoot to move up in classes. But when unfair things (shooting times, ranges different for known and unknown) are being allowed it kind of frustrates you as a shooter.... I don't have a problem to move up just would like to shoot out of the class as a personal goal.
Laz


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## laztaz5 (Jul 22, 2008)

We have a limit to how many shooters can be assigned to each range at any given time. We don't have the capacity to handle everyone and we must choose classes to shoot two rounds on Saturday. For consistency we have been assigning the Open C and Bow Novice tow these times for the following reasons:

1) These classes are for beginners, and many of the competitors are local. 
2) The only other option for the entire class of Open C or Bow Novice to shoot only one round on Saturday (at 8:00am) would be to require them to shoot at noon on Sunday, as we do before daylight savings time. Most of the shooters in these classes travel with others which usually precludes them from being able to shoot at noon on Sunday, so being done on Saturday is prrferred. 
3) The actual time for these classes to compete both rounds is under 6 hours total because the second round on Saturday for both classes is known distance and the average time on the range is well under 3 hours.
4) All competitors in these classes are adult males who typically are better capable of handling two rounds in one day.

If someone has a health condition, or a family issue, we have always worked to accommodate those folks as best we can. In addition, we have the LimbSaver Known Distance available for you on Sunday morning if the rest of your travel group is competing. 

I hope this helps you to understand our situation, and the reasons behind the decision. 

[email protected]


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

outbackarcher said:


> The op needs to post this on the ASA forum and let's see what Mike says.





carlosii said:


> agreed. i checked and nothing there so far.


Someone just now has it in the ASA Forums. It is not all that well worded or explained, but there. No replies other than mine. 

Guys and Dolls, if you have ASA complaint take to the ASA Forums. It'll get attention.....


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

SonnyThomas said:


> Someone just now has it in the ASA Forums. It is not all that well worded or explained, but there. No replies other than mine.
> 
> Guys and Dolls, if you have ASA complaint take to the ASA Forums. It'll get attention.....


it will get attention but you may be looked at like an outcast but I dont care


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## msbigdawg (Oct 15, 2010)

Well i did not make the shoot wish we could have been there though....I understand the logistical night mare ya'll go thru trying to work with so many shooters and ranges ...glad its ya'll and not me..but on the other hand if i was there and shot range "X" known and range "Y" unknown then "joe " shot "X" unkown and "Y" known we have shot two completely differnt ranges and there is noway to determine a winner ..like i said i apperciate all the time and effort it takes in doing these tourneys but thnk they need to think out every angle before approving the course so there is no confussion....jmo


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

laztaz5 said:


> We have a limit to how many shooters can be assigned to each range at any given time. We don't have the capacity to handle everyone and we must choose classes to shoot two rounds on Saturday. For consistency we have been assigning the Open C and Bow Novice tow these times for the following reasons:
> 
> 1) These classes are for beginners, and many of the competitors are local.
> 2) The only other option for the entire class of Open C or Bow Novice to shoot only one round on Saturday (at 8:00am) would be to require them to shoot at noon on Sunday, as we do before daylight savings time. Most of the shooters in these classes travel with others which usually precludes them from being able to shoot at noon on Sunday, so being done on Saturday is prrferred.
> ...



Thanks for the back ground. Most of us already know the reasons for C and Novice being setup differently but I'm sure it helped some understand.
This is my first year shooting K45. I was thinking Saturday that if the class continues growing going much over 120 shooters will make things "interesting" to manage to say the least. Overall, ASA is doing a fantastic job.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

laztaz5 said:


> We have a limit to how many shooters can be assigned to each range at any given time. We don't have the capacity to handle everyone and we must choose classes to shoot two rounds on Saturday. For consistency we have been assigning the Open C and Bow Novice tow these times for the following reasons:
> 
> 1) These classes are for beginners, and many of the competitors are local.
> 2) The only other option for the entire class of Open C or Bow Novice to shoot only one round on Saturday (at 8:00am) would be to require them to shoot at noon on Sunday, as we do before daylight savings time. Most of the shooters in these classes travel with others which usually precludes them from being able to shoot at noon on Sunday, so being done on Saturday is prrferred.
> ...


The promblem wasnt the 40 targets in one. It was one group shoot one range known and other group shooting seperate range known.

Most here realize everyone has to shoot the same ranges known and unknown to be fair.
DB


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Sounds to me like the answer is going to be to make the classes either all known, or all unknown.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

tmorelli said:


> Sounds to me like the answer is going to be to make the classes either all known, or all unknown.


Yep......I've been saying every since K45 & K50 came to be that it would be a great time to do away with an open class, and make them all unknown.


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## msbigdawg (Oct 15, 2010)

Personally I dont know why any OPEN class has a known range...


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

dw'struth said:


> Yep......I've been saying every since K45 & K50 came to be that it would be a great time to do away with an open class, and make them all unknown.


Why would you do away with a open class? JUst make them all unknown. No need to drop a open class. 
DB


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Why would you do away with a open class? JUst make them all unknown. No need to drop a open class.
> DB


I've kind of questioned the need for a path that includes Novice, C, B, A and Semi myself. It just a lot of "hierarchy". However, the crux of the ASA system (that I'm so dear to) is that it basically limits an unmarked yardage class size to about 100 shooters. Kill any open class and you'd definitely have issues with the "new" class size.

Any (many?) more than 100 shooters and you can't get them all on a 20 target range without other issues. If you shoot range x and range y simultaneously, I would say there is an enormous risk of shooters from each range "sharing" yardages.

Perhaps an answer might be to run 30 target courses on Saturday and say the top 25% advance to Sunday? It has issues I'm aware of (like SOY format implications) but just a thought.

I really like the ASA format but I think the way that Open C was handled in this case was not fair or acceptable and should be addressed.


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

Mike T responded to this on the ASA forum.


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## 3-D Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

[email protected]

Administrator
Contributing Member
*****
Posts: 231
ASA Home Office
View Profile

Re: open C mess on Kentucky
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:15:39 PM »
TnVol - Obviously this is your first ASA and you are sadly misinformed. We shot the Open C class as known distance on range G and unknown on Range H regardless of what time they shot. We have been doing this with the Open C class for many years.
[email protected]
Logged


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3-D Quest said:


> [email protected]
> 
> Administrator
> Contributing Member
> ...


Interested to hear what some here have to say. When members here are making statements like this you really need to be right.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

tmorelli said:


> I've kind of questioned the need for a path that includes Novice, C, B, A and Semi myself. It just a lot of "hierarchy". However, the crux of the ASA system (that I'm so dear to) is that it basically limits an unmarked yardage class size to about 100 shooters. Kill any open class and you'd definitely have issues with the "new" class size.
> 
> Any (many?) more than 100 shooters and you can't get them all on a 20 target range without other issues. If you shoot range x and range y simultaneously, I would say there is an enormous risk of shooters from each range "sharing" yardages.
> 
> ...


Seems someone not telling the truth on Kentucky, open C, it doesnt surprise me because I would think even ASA knows that not right in every way. Novice, C, B, and A classes were to draw more shooters and it did. OPen B class has always been a tough class to win when it was huge in years pass. Everyone wants to shoot a class they feel they can win. Known yardage classes were added for the same. Hard to think they would drop classes that are drawing good numbers.
DB


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Seems someone not telling the truth on Kentucky, open C, it doesnt surprise me because I would think even ASA knows that not right in every way. Novice, C, B, and A classes were to draw more shooters and it did. OPen B class has always been a tough class to win when it was huge in years pass. Everyone wants to shoot a class they feel they can win. Known yardage classes were added for the same. Hard to think they would drop classes that are drawing good numbers.
> DB


Yeah, thats a pretty strong statement from Mike. I can't get on the ASA page right now. I'd love to read the rest of that.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Seems someone not telling the truth on Kentucky, open C, it doesnt surprise me because I would think even ASA knows that not right in every way. Novice, C, B, and A classes were to draw more shooters and it did. OPen B class has always been a tough class to win when it was huge in years pass. Everyone wants to shoot a class they feel they can win. Known yardage classes were added for the same. Hard to think they would drop classes that are drawing good numbers.
> DB


I think it may be entirely possible that Mike and Dee were not aware of the open C range issue, maybe it was a mistake by the range officials who knows...After all, Mike was adamant on the XT/HD target issue posted on the asa forum but it's likely he did not have accurate information on that one. He can't be on every range during a shoot and has to depend on a lot of other people. He probably just got bad info. There are more than a couple c shooters that have posted here that I know to be knowledgable and would not post if there was not an issue.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Mike commented that I am misinformed thats not how it works.. So Mike doesnt know this happened wow


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Im trying to get approved to post over there as well to assure Mike this had happened.....


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

It couldnt be range officials, they dont hand out range and Target assignments.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

hmmm maybe if when the cards get printed off should say

Sat 8am H Range - Known
Sat 3pm G Range - Unknown

Or something like that.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

redfish said:


> I think it may be entirely possible that Mike and Dee were not aware of the open C range issue, maybe it was a mistake by the range officials who knows...After all, Mike was adamant on the XT/HD target issue posted on the asa forum but it's likely he did not have accurate information on that one. He can't be on every range during a shoot and has to depend on a lot of other people. He probably just got bad info. There are more than a couple c shooters that have posted here that I know to be knowledgable and would not post if there was not an issue.



Hard to understand how so many archers all agree and could be wrong. I hope more inform Mike this did happen.
DB


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> Why would you do away with a open class? JUst make them all unknown. No need to drop a open class.
> DB


The question is, why would you need three open classes that all shoot unkown yardage on both days. On the other hand, I would love to shoot Open C all unknown.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Well seems now we agree it happened, now what? Refund Money? Im asking not saying they should..


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

dw'struth said:


> The question is, why would you need three open classes that all shoot unkown yardage on both days. On the other hand, I would love to shoot Open C all unknown.


I'm not sure if you are clear on this already but novice, C and B all shoot half known, half unknown. 

I've never shot any pins classes but I think Hunter does too.

I don't really understand half-and-half for anything above entry level.


Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

genohuh said:


> Well seems now we agree it happened, now what? Refund Money? Im asking not saying they should..



Mike Terrell hasnt agreed. Thats the one that you guys need to make aware it did happen.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

dw'struth said:


> The question is, why would you need three open classes that all shoot unkown yardage on both days. On the other hand, I would love to shoot Open C all unknown.


Extra classes bring more archers. It about the numbers is why classes are added. Lower classes loses shooters.
DB


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## kingalw (Aug 30, 2009)

The range official on H range told us on about target 6 or 7 of the day that they forgot to tell range G to shoot KNOWN that morning and since they had already started shooting they couldnt change it and make them start shooting that range known so that's why it happened. You'd think the head of the organization would get all the facts before making a statement like that.



3-D Quest said:


> [email protected]
> 
> Administrator
> Contributing Member
> ...


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

kingalw said:


> The range official on H range told us on about target 6 or 7 of the day that they forgot to tell range G to shoot KNOWN that morning and since they had already started shooting they couldnt change it and make them start shooting that range known so that's why it happened. You'd think the head of the organization would get all the facts before making a statement like that.


You need to post this at the ASA forum and all others reading this that shot the class.
DB


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## kingalw (Aug 30, 2009)

Once my account is approved I will.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

genohuh said:


> Well seems now we agree it happened, now what? Refund Money? Im asking not saying they should..


I don't know what if anything can be done now, except making sure it dosen't happen again.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow


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## laztaz5 (Jul 22, 2008)

Well I shoot in Kentucky on H18 unknown at 11:00 am Saturday, because my little girl shot at 8. Then on Sunday, I shot G18 known at 8. I still have my target assignment card if he would like to see it.......I don't think he knew what has been going on.......
Laz


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## gaberichter (Aug 31, 2008)

Get em Honey Badger!


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

If I shot OPEN C in KY and this happened I would be really upset....the proper thing to do is to offer all the shooter that shoot OPEN C at KY to shoot another ASA shoot free of charge since they feel they have been disavantaged or cheated by not all shooting th same targets. This way all the shooters can feel they are getting there money worth and they will show up to the shoot and most likley still shoot SIMs and Team shoot so ASA will still make money off the class not to mention they will most likley still rent hotels and buy products from vendors.....I think this is the only way to put this to bed!!!

what you guys thinks


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Babyk said:


> If I shot OPEN C in KY and this happened I would be really upset....the proper thing to do is to offer all the shooter that shoot OPEN C at KY to shoot another ASA shoot free of charge since they feel they have been disavantaged or cheated by not all shooting th same targets. This way all the shooters can feel they are getting there money worth and they will show up to the shoot and most likley still shoot SIMs and Team shoot so ASA will still make money off the class not to mention they will most likley still rent hotels and buy products from vendors.....I think this is the only way to put this to bed!!!
> 
> what you guys thinks


If this is at it appears..... it seems like the right thing to do IMO is look at the range assignments and serve up results and winnings based on each group (group 1: shot x known, y unknown and group 2: shot x unknown and y known).


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

laztaz5 said:


> Well I shoot in Kentucky on H18 unknown at 11:00 am Saturday, because my little girl shot at 8. Then on Sunday, I shot G18 known at 8. I still have my target assignment card if he would like to see it.......I don't think he knew what has been going on.......
> Laz


Take a picture of your card and post at ASA forum. Hard to deny a picture.
DB


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

I shot H 17 at 9 am and G 17 at 3 . Laz I remember them bringing you into Group next to me


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Proof is in the Pudding


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

This is just a real bad job on the ASA part.....hate to say that cause I really like ASA but gotta call it like I see it


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

face it guys, take it to the forum and quit your crying over here, open c is never ever going to get treated like other classes, it is set up for people who only shoot occasionally, why would you allow asa to MAKE you shoot it all in one day, move to b or a or k45- yes I have shot open c and it sucks


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

tmorelli said:


> Sounds to me like the answer is going to be to make the classes either all known, or all unknown.





3Dblackncamo said:


> face it guys, take it to the forum and quit your crying over here, open c is never ever going to get treated like other classes, it is set up for people who only shoot occasionally, why would you allow asa to MAKE you shoot it all in one day, move to b or a or k45- yes I have shot open c and it sucks


Agreed, along with novice, 2 of Asa's largest classes and are treated like outcasts.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

redfish said:


> Agreed, along with novice, 2 of Asa's largest classes and are treated like outcasts.


and some are treated like outcast(myself) for calling out targets that are wrong, but thats why they call me country, cause I tell it like it is


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## speciii (Dec 28, 2008)

Why is there people shooting novice classes with 1300 (colored) bows. I would not have a 1300 dollar bow being a novice.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

speciii said:


> Why is there people shooting novice classes with 1300 (colored) bows. I would not have a 1300 dollar bow being a novice.


Probably because they want to or can afford to. This thread is about the open C ranges shot in London.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

whay does a 1300 dollar Bow have to do with anything? Ill be shooting th Dominator 3D myself. But I do have question? For the Classic can we shoot any class we want? I really dont wanna shoot the Redheaded Step Child class of C. If I want to shoot A or Semi can I do it?


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

genohuh said:


> whay does a 1300 dollar Bow have to do with anything? Ill be shooting th Dominator 3D myself. But I do have question? For the Classic can we shoot any class we want? I really dont wanna shoot the Redheaded Step Child class of C. If I want to shoot A or Semi can I do it?


Yes you can.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

How many shooters were assigned to group? I just looked at the scores. Seems all in class could have shot at the same time, just 5 and 6 to group. We did at Metro 2 years ago - 6 in my group.
So if 5 and 6 to a group there shouldn't have been a problem. Trying to remember; I believe I shot G range on Sat starting at 11:00 and H on Sunday starting at 8:00 - me being Super Senior and all unknown distances. My buddies shot Open C and started at 8:00 Saturday, took a break and returned to finish out the remaining 20.

??? Got tired of reading all, but just how many replying shot Open C and saw this?


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

genohuh said:


> whay does a 1300 dollar Bow have to do with anything? Ill be shooting th Dominator 3D myself. But I do have question? For the Classic can we shoot any class we want? I really dont wanna shoot the Redheaded Step Child class of C. If I want to shoot A or Semi can I do it?


IF you have qualified already ....you can shoot up in class level...but can't shoot down in class level. If you make that move up, you can't move back down come the following year.


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## candymaker13 (Apr 19, 2011)

I shot open c and it was a great experience , I do not know of any range mix ups , butt I shot on both days because I registered early and requested it, the only reason I did that is because we were traveling with two van loads of people and we all needed the same start times as the different classes, I shot all in one day in Georgia and it was not as enjoyable as Kentucky. I just pre registered for Illinois to shoot both days in open c also, butt I will pay closer attention to see if we are all shooting the same ranges known and unknown.


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## candymaker13 (Apr 19, 2011)

Novice is the experience you have with the bow , not what kind of now you shoot, a person with a 2500$ set up can suck just as bad as a person with a 200. $ setup, sorry to stear away from topic butt that comment about why are novice shooters shooting nice bows is ridiculous


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

H range had 3 people to a Group. As did G. @ Sonny everyone that shot at 8 am and 3 pm got the shaft!


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> Take a picture of your card and post at ASA forum. Hard to deny a picture.
> DB


I was right there on the stake with him. Range H unknown on Sat., and range G known on Sun


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

tmorelli said:


> I'm not sure if you are clear on this already but novice, C and B all shoot half known, half unknown.
> 
> I've never shot any pins classes but I think Hunter does too.
> 
> ...


Yep, I am very clear on the situation. 

The way I see it, most that are really serious about being the best shooter they can be have a goal of moving up through th classes. The goal that most are working toward, whether it be open pro, semi-pro, or even open A, is a class that shoots unknown yardage. Now that those who want to shoot known have classes in place, why not let the ones preparing for higher level, UNKNOWN classes shoot unknown yardage. 

If #'s keep increasing, the ASA might just have to bite the bullet and set an extra range.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

genohuh said:


> H range had 3 people to a Group. As did G. @ Sonny everyone that shot at 8 am and 3 pm got the shaft!


Well, that shoots my theroy down. I've shot Open C before when I first joined the ASA. I know I'm to have 50/50 for known and unknown.
So, we talking cheaters? I mean, why didn't someone speak up right there and then?


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Well, that shoots my theroy down. I've shot Open C before when I first joined the ASA. I know I'm to have 50/50 for known and unknown.
> So, we talking cheaters? I mean, why didn't someone speak up right there and then?


I no no one cheated, what I think happened they had to many shooters and tried to split range them. Halg shoot H unknown halk shoot G known at the same time, then in the evening switch up. Which would have worked but they forgot to tell range G to shoot known at 9 am and they shot iy inknown and that messed it all up. But how did Mike not know about it? Hmmmmm


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

genohuh said:


> whay does a 1300 dollar Bow have to do with anything? Ill be shooting th Dominator 3D myself. But I do have question? For the Classic can we shoot any class we want? I really dont wanna shoot the Redheaded Step Child class of C. If I want to shoot A or Semi can I do it?



But normally at the classic novice and open c shoot sat and sun. Because of the shoot down sat night.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dw'struth said:


> I was right there on the stake with him. Range H unknown on Sat., and range G known on Sun


So what's your point? Those who pre-register can shoot Saturday if they request and there is no problem and and then shoot unknown Sunday. If you shoot it all in one day the first range is unknown and the second range is known. Is this where the confusion is? Read it above where the replier pre-registered.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Sonny, I think the shooters that shot sat and Sunday shot it correctly.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> So what's your point? Those who pre-register can shoot Saturday if they request and there is no problem and and then shoot unknown Sunday. If you shoot it all in one day the first range is unknown and the second range is known. Is this where the confusion is? Read it above where the replier pre-registered.


I think you are the one confused. Someone asked him to take a pic of his range card, so I was just confirming what he had said. I shot both days as well.....because I pre-registered. lol


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

ASA screwed up they need to own it......make it right to the shooters of the Open C Class from KY

The Lower level classes are there to help pay the bills....bottom line......still understand that these people are archers also who love an enjoy the sport and shouldn't be treated any different than any other class. 

Offer the shooters from OPEN C from KY a free entry into there next ASA event. A little now on ASa part could stop the bleeding as they say of this bad situation that has people upset and a bad taste in there mouth


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

I also shot open c in Kentucky i think open c is big enough that we should get to shoot in 2 days. I also think novice should get to also. We deserve it just like everybody else. I usually go to 3 pro am a year 2 state qualifier and one state championship. Even if it takes adding another ranges. 

I understand what everyone is saying happened in Kentucky and I don't know what should be done. I don't think it was right or fair.

I do think they should do away with one of the open class.Maybe just have a open 45 and open 50 with all unknown and a known 45 and 50. This is just my opinion. But it would save the local clubs on having so many classes and make the other open classes bigger.

I also think they need to add another practice range and more bag targets. But what do I know.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

People dog open C an bow novice but when Mike sits at the table and eats a big fat T Bone the lower classes are mostly what put the food on the table as they say!!!

Give some respect to the little guys!!! We pay our money and we expect to be treated the same way as everyone else. They wouldnt dare to slam Semi Pro and Pro classes into one day cause most likley all them would tell them where to go with it!!! 

All classes should shoot both days I don't care if that does require another range


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Im not really griping about shooting both ranges in one day because I knew going into the shoot it was lije that.. BUT it does make a difference on you score im sure. After 20 targets and a Simms round you are exhausted. When your that tired you cant tell me you dont drop more points than say shooting in Two days. Its a no brainer. Kudos to those thats get to though its not your fault at all. But its just not a fair playing field at all. How can anyobe say it is?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

genohuh said:


> Im not really griping about shooting both ranges in one day because I knew going into the shoot it was lije that.. BUT it does make a difference on you score im sure. After 20 targets and a Simms round you are exhausted. When your that tired you cant tell me you dont drop more points than say shooting in Two days. Its a no brainer. Kudos to those thats get to though its not your fault at all. But its just not a fair playing field at all. How can anyobe say it is?


You know the rules for that class going into the shoot. Mike explained why they have to do it that way. Pretty simple if you dont agree with it shoot Open B class. As long as everyone shoots the same targets that fair. Set the rules and Ill decide if I will play by them.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Babyk said:


> People dog open C an bow novice but when Mike sits at the table and eats a big fat T Bone the lower classes are mostly what put the food on the table as they say!!!
> 
> Give some respect to the little guys!!! We pay our money and we expect to be treated the same way as everyone else. They wouldnt dare to slam Semi Pro and Pro classes into one day cause most likley all them would tell them where to go with it!!!
> 
> All classes should shoot both days I don't care if that does require another range


You dont make the rules. Those rules are set and it your choice to shoot by them. MIke explained why they have to do it that way. 
DB


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> You know the rules for that class going into the shoot. Mike explained why they have to do it that way. Pretty simple if you I dont agree with it shoot Open B class. As long as everyone shoots the same targets that fair. Set the rules and Ill decide if I will play by them.
> DB


 I do believe.I just said the same thing. Still doesnt make it fair. And why should we go by rulrs when those that set them break the rulrs? You keep mentioning Mike, he didnt even know all this happened. So who is running the Asa?


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Babyk said:


> People dog open C an bow novice but when Mike sits at the table and eats a big fat T Bone the lower classes are mostly what put the food on the table as they say!!!
> 
> Give some respect to the little guys!!! We pay our money and we expect to be treated the same way as everyone else. They wouldnt dare to slam Semi Pro and Pro classes into one day cause most likley all them would tell them where to go with it!!!
> 
> All classes should shoot both days I don't care if that does require another range


take you crying straight to mike and asa, if you want to shoot both days every shoot move out of C its been this way for yrs, by the way all this crying got NONE of you nothing asa cuts checks on monday after the shoot just to make sure they have everything right


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

3Dblackncamo said:


> take you crying straight to mike and asa, if you want to shoot both days every shoot move out of C its been this way for yrs, by the way all this crying got NONE of you nothing asa cuts checks on monday after the shoot just to make sure they have everything right


 crying? Really dude? Because they f***d up we are crying? If you dont wanna see " crying" dont read this post simple enough. But until you spend hrs driving and hundreds of Dollars to shoot and it ending up a Joke. Leave your crying on another post!!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

genohuh said:


> I do believe.I just said the same thing. Still doesnt make it fair. And why should we go by rulrs when those that set them break the rulrs? You keep mentioning Mike, he didnt even know all this happened. So who is running the Asa?


1300 shooters all in one weekend. Not an easy task to do but ASA does it better than any other assc. Mike runs ASA and thats a fact not many would ever dispute. I have shot ASA for 20yrs. Yes sometimes incidents happen. This isnt the first time. Wont be the last. 
You dont think it fair or you dont think it ran right. Go shoot IBO or NFAA or other archery assc. This happens at all of them on occasions. Bottomline this is one incident in open C class so it dont happen again. Life not perfect and things happen.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3Dblackncamo said:


> take you crying straight to mike and asa, if you want to shoot both days every shoot move out of C its been this way for yrs, by the way all this crying got NONE of you nothing asa cuts checks on monday after the shoot just to make sure they have everything right


No reason to call it crying or whining. These ASA shooters have good reason to be upset. Good thing hopefully it gets corrected to not happen again.
DB
DB


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

3Dblackncamo said:


> take you crying straight to mike and asa, if you want to shoot both days every shoot move out of C its been this way for yrs, by the way all this crying got NONE of you nothing asa cuts checks on monday after the shoot just to make sure they have everything right


I would take my "crying" as you call it to Mike but he's probley to busy counting all the cash he made off Open C and Bow Novice class and I wouldn't want to bother him while he busy.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Babyk said:


> I would take my "crying" as you call it to Mike but he's probley to busy counting all the cash he made off Open C and Bow Novice class and I wouldn't want to bother him while he busy.


No one forces anyone to shoot ASA. Mistakes happen! Unfortunate. Maybe if you walked in his shoes one day you might see it not easy to make it all run smooth. ASA is popular for good reason. They do run a good tournament and have plenty to do in the four days. I would hate to see ASA stop having tournaments. Cant imagine. 
DB


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

DB it is ran ok. Its just getting bigger than they run it. You know what I mean . All I want and think is deserved. Guess thats up to Mike. And umm I took it to Mike he denied it happened. Its really to me more about the people that drove from Oregon.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Babyk said:


> I would take my "crying" as you call it to Mike but he's probley to busy counting all the cash he made off Open C and Bow Novice class and I wouldn't want to bother him while he busy.


you guys are pissed and maybe you should be, be posting all of this over here will get you NOWHERE, go to the asa forum and raise hell, AT is the wrong place for this, it will do no good, I have shot open c, one yr I rolled in kentucky and went to register they told me I would have to shoot it all on sat, I told them as long as I am paying for it I will not shoot it all in 1 day so I went to B, its not going to change, open c gets flooded and I will tell from previous experience you will enjoy B or A much better than C, if you register eary enough they will let you shoot c in 2 days, C also has no shooter of the yr


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

you guys see the thread I started at the asa forum, mike did not like it and told me to get my facts straight, I had my facts straight, he is a buisness man not a 3D shooter, he is this best in the buisness for 3D archery, but he needs to be made aware of issues that are not right, this is why I keep telling you to go to the forum and let him have it, you might even have to get a little ugly, as DB pointed out 1300 shooters is hard to manage in 2 days time and at your very best there is going to be issues, go to the forum and give it to him it will piss him off but who cares, thats the only way to make him know!


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Dude I am TnVol on the.ASA forum I started this on there. I just dont understand how he dont know this happened but yet the Shooter Catds were printed at the Trailer, so this was planned or just a mistake thats huge. 114 shooters x their entry fee? Yea it wont be addressed properly..


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

genohuh said:


> DB it is ran ok. Its just getting bigger than they run it. You know what I mean . All I want and think is deserved. Guess thats up to Mike. And umm I took it to Mike he denied it happened. Its really to me more about the people that drove from Oregon.


Who keeps asking for this? Archers are requesting more and more. ASA trys to delivery. Mike may feel he right when he posted. Thats why you and other got to keep posting at ASA. There actually not much larger now than years ago. Mistakes are going to happen but honestly there rare at ASA. They run a good shoot. Dont let this one incident effect you. Senior pro friend was in Augusta and has been shooting for many many years. Well know pro. Got chronoed at 289 on the range. I garantee he shot the same bow all year. He went to Chrono we all check are bows with before the shoot and 280 on it it. Unfortunate thing and maybe not right but he excepted it and was DQed. Not a perfect world and things happen. This stuff happens.
DB


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

genohuh said:


> Dude I am TnVol on the.ASA forum I started this on there. I just dont understand how he dont know this happened but yet the Shooter Catds were printed at the Trailer, so this was planned or just a mistake thats huge. 114 shooters x their entry fee? Yea it wont be addressed properly..


TNvol, you shot ranges g and h were there hd javelina on that range, my son says there was, if so go voice you.02 on the forum , I did not shoot c at ky so I cant say anything to help on your thread but people who did need to tell mike, call mike first thing monday morning and talk to him, there is no way he knows about every little issue, tell him on the phone and at the forum!


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

DB I live by you Senior Pro friend, been shooting with him for 25 years myself. We had a crowd around the Chrono in KY and for every single person it Shot 6 to 11 fps faster than their shop Chrono. Some that was shooting 283 was in the 290s


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3Dblackncamo said:


> TNvol, you shot ranges g and h were there hd javelina on that range, my son says there was, if so go voice you.02 on the forum , I did not shoot c at ky so I cant say anything to help on your thread but people who did need to tell mike, call mike first thing monday morning and talk to him, there is no way he knows about every little issue, tell him on the phone and at the forum!


Good idea. Genohuh you feel this strongly give him a call. Be polite and explain exactly what happen. Coming all the way from Oregon I understand your frustrations. Sad sometimes things happen.
DB


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

I personally didnt drive that far. But feel for some that did. Ill be nice. It was a mistake. Yet it needs to be addressed


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

3D yea that Target was 11 yards


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

genohuh said:


> 3D yea that Target was 11 yards


this is what I am talking about I am probabbly an outcast at the forum but I dont care, I am alot like DB I tell like it is, but you need to voice you opinion on the forum if he dont understand you call him, but as DB says be nice at least until it time not to be nice, as for the target he thinks that I am stirring trouble when in fact I am only telling him facts that he has no idea of, there have been HD targets in augusta and london


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

genohuh said:


> DB I live by you Senior Pro friend, been shooting with him for 25 years myself. We had a crowd around the Chrono in KY and for every single person it Shot 6 to 11 fps faster than their shop Chrono. Some that was shooting 283 was in the 290s


That is bull.... It shot the same for me and we shot it to test it at different angles.......Try again.... 283 is over speed..remember its 280..... the 3% is JUST in case your chrono is that you shot it on was not the same. I know this tread about the c class thing......BUT I am SORRY.....you are so off when it comes to this.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

C is the Redheaded step child of ASA, in 98 thru 2000 I shot Semi and NEVER seen this. Alot of the events C shooters cannot shoot them bcause they happen while ey are shooting. Not fair at all. I should have won the last 2 C events was in place to but didEn Semi when I shoot another Asa.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

genohuh said:


> C is the Redheaded step child of ASA, in 98 thru 2000 I shot Semi and NEVER seen this. Alot of the events C shooters cannot shoot them bcause they happen while ey are shooting. Not fair at all. I should have won the last 2 C events was in place to but didEn Semi when I shoot another Asa.


well you might not want to jump that far from c to semi, but it is your choice, I shoot A and like it better than any other class I have shot, and the entry is half of semi, good luck to you what ever you decide to do but I would get out of C, but that your choice, semi and a shoot the same ranges now, low 12 and all unknown


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> That is bull.... It shot the same for me and we shot it to test it at different angles.......Try again.... 283 is over speed..remember its 280..... the 3% is JUST in case your chrono is that you shot it on was not the same. I know this tread about the c class thing......BUT I am SORRY.....you are so off when it comes to this.


 283 is Not to fast lol as long as your not over 288 when u shoot that Chrono your good. Im not wrong Burley Hall and Charles Blankenship and I stood and watched 15 people shoot and complain. People was cranking down all around. Ask Burley we just shook our heads


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

I always did ok in Semi, I just needed to get my feet wet a little first. Although I havnt shot Asa in years I still shoot with some of the best and do ok.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

ASA is top dog when it comes to 3D we all know it
They made a mistake it happens....but I would expect Mike to step up and make it right with the Open C class shooters from KY and move on......if he's such a great bussiness man as some have stated this would had probley been addressed and left everyone with a warm fuzzy....


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

genohuh said:


> 283 is Not to fast lol as long as your not over 288 when u shoot that Chrono your good. Im not wrong Burley Hall and Charles Blankenship and I stood and watched 15 people shoot and complain. People was cranking down all around. Ask Burley we just shook our heads


Well, all I can tell you is I TESTED the speed of the chrono....and I know what my bow does and it's been ran through high dollar chronos to the cheap ones...and all right there with a foot of each other. 280/281 . We also had to show Don what speed can change (not much) of anything if you shoot at the top of the spread to the bottom of the spread. 

Im not here to argue anything, I just know the true physics of it all. 

Hope to see everyone at Metropolis


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Here's what my crystal ball says:

If everyone will simmer down for a little bit, Mike will figure out what happened and make it right. 

I can't get in the ASA forum again but the last I saw from Mike was on Friday afternoon. I'm betting he does everything he can to "turn it off" on the weekends when he doesn't HAVE to work and he'll look into it this week.

ASA and Mike are class. Have a little faith.


Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

I also shot trough the crono ,everyone way saying it was hot .Mine shot 5fps slower it was the same one I have at home .I was shooting 286fps before I went to the GA shoot ,in Ga I got 291 fps had to turn it down .In KY it was shooting 281 so I got to crank it back to where it was before the GA shoot .I need to shoot it trough mine again .


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## NateUK (Dec 4, 2008)

I shot through the chrono at KY and it shot the same speed as the rest that I've ever shot through.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Guys, I don't know of another man (or woman for that matter) that is "on the go" equal to or more than Mike T. When given credit he gives the credit to other people. The man seems everywhere and if someone would have spoke up to a range official or, pointedly, Mike it would have got addressed right there and then. Maybe I don't agree with the ASA on all things, but having dealt with other organizations I can say Mike, LD, Lorraine, and Jenny are tops.


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## JWP41 (Jun 21, 2011)

I don't care who this pisses off but here I go! Yes it appears that the range officials on that range may have made a mistake. All the shooters shot 40 targets, you may have shot 20 that were known on one range and alot of other people shot 20 known on a different range. Simply put everybody shoots 40 targets 20 known, 20 unknown, who's to say the targets you knew the yardage on were any easier than the one's the others shot. A good shooter should prevail no matter which side got shot when. Even if the ASA made a mistake here be thankful you have an orginization like them who's putting together events for all of us to have the opportunity for not only us but our families to enjoy. I shot with people in Kentucky who drove 17 hours to get there. So the people who drove 300 miles and are complaining so adamantly, suck it up, quit crying and face it----Everbody makes mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

John-in-VA said:


> I also shot trough the crono ,everyone way saying it was hot .Mine shot 5fps slower it was the same one I have at home .I was shooting 286fps before I went to the GA shoot ,in Ga I got 291 fps had to turn it down .In KY it was shooting 281 so I got to crank it back to where it was before the GA shoot .I need to shoot it trough mine again .


Chronographs can be aggravating. I have a Shooting Chrony that is as reliable as any chronograph I've ever owned (3 and thinking of buying a 4th) and every chronograph I've shot through. Mine has been used to validate other chronographs and worst case was a Pro Chronograph reading 3 fps faster and one registered 1 fps slower.
But then chronographs can have spots that may give lower or higher readings. I've seen 5 fps. It shouldn't be, but it happens. Natural light opposed to a light bulb can effect readings. Anything electrical and especially high voltage power lines or transformers can effect readings. Different fluorescent lights can effect readings and not only that, but some fluorescent lighting will make a chronograph go "haywire" big time. 

Some say you can calibrate chronographs. I'd have to see it in writing beings the "eyes" turn on and turn off a electric timer. Every chronograph I've owned or used has instructions to return the Chronograph to the company.

Distance from the Chronograph. Most instructions state 1 arrow length from the face of the Chronograph. Basically, you want the arrow off the string before the tip trips the timer.
Something to think about, long stabilizers can effect "real" readings by as much as 2 fps and maybe as much as 3 fps.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

JWP41 said:


> I don't care who this pisses off but here I go! Yes it appears that the range officials on that range may have made a mistake. All the shooters shot 40 targets, you may have shot 20 that were known on one range and alot of other people shot 20 known on a different range. Simply put everybody shoots 40 targets 20 known, 20 unknown, who's to say the targets you knew the yardage on were any easier than the one's the others shot. A good shooter should prevail no matter which side got shot when. Even if the ASA made a mistake here be thankful you have an orginization like them who's putting together events for all of us to have the opportunity for not only us but our families to enjoy. I shot with people in Kentucky who drove 17 hours to get there. So the people who drove 300 miles and are complaining so adamantly, suck it up, quit crying and face it----Everbody makes mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!!


They made there money and did drive. I feel most want to see it dont happen again. Who crying? Seems some could say you crying at members for being upset. It a discussion forum and that whats happening. It not fair and dont try and say the best archer would have won because no one knows that fact. All there asking is a fair tournament.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Chronographs can be aggravating. I have a Shooting Chrony that is as reliable as any chronograph I've ever owned (3 and thinking of buying a 4th) and every chronograph I've shot through. Mine has been used to validate other chronographs and worst case was a Pro Chronograph reading 3 fps faster and one registered 1 fps slower.
> But then chronographs can have spots that may give lower or higher readings. I've seen 5 fps. It shouldn't be, but it happens. Natural light opposed to a light bulb can effect readings. Anything electrical and especially high voltage power lines or transformers can effect readings. Different fluorescent lights can effect readings and not only that, but some fluorescent lighting will make a chronograph go "haywire" big time.
> 
> Some say you can calibrate chronographs. I'd have to see it in writing beings the "eyes" turn on and turn off a electric timer. Every chronograph I've owned or used has instructions to return the Chronograph to the company.
> ...


Sonny me and you have seen pro chrono can be off from one to the next. Several times they have had two chronos at the bags and both read as much as 6fps different. I set mine with my Pro Chrono and have seen all kinds of different readings from mine.
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I want nothing in return from ASA regarding this except a simple explanation of a mistake and some type of remedy to try not to do it again.

On a side note - I will NEVER go to another ASA shoot without marks below 20 yds.....LOL

I know there are some formulas for figuring it all out but 3 minutes on a practice range in the future will give me marks. I remember looking to my partners on the stake and I started laughing. I literally had NOTHING in my mind for that range. Of course I shot at the 14 (was unknown for me) and shot right over the top of it


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

So Jwb your saying thay if you and I shot 20 Targets me shooting them known you unknown, and I shoot a better score I should win? Lol not hardly!!


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## JWP41 (Jun 21, 2011)

No! I'm saying that you shot 20 targets with known yardage that the other group shot unknown, and they did vice versa. Which unless one side was extremely easier than the other still kept the playing field level. Unless I've misunderstood what you've described happened and one group shot known on both sides then Everybody shot 20 targets knowing the yardage and 20 targets not. Yes it wasn't right that everyone didn't shoot every target the exact way. My point is all the negativity shown towards the asa in general in this forum. Every person and every orginization make mistakes. There are some on here who are commenting negitively and have probably never even shot an asa or has any understanding of the amount of work that goes into it. And no I do not work for them. You had every right to comment on what happened. I just tried to make the point that an archer in this sport should be able to succesfully shoot targets within there legal yardages per asa rules known or not. I wonder if the top ten guys had to shoot the same way as you? If so it must not have messed them up to bad! Alot of people jumped on this band wagon just to complain when they didn't have a dog in the fight. The asa gives alot of people to come together and compete and I'd like to see some of the people who are complaining on here try to do the job that Mike and his crew do without ever making a mistake!


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## JWP41 (Jun 21, 2011)

Were you in the open C class at Kentucky or even there period? If not why are you posting more than anybody else on here relating to the subject? There have been two guys, maybe three that got on here and stated their complaints about what happened as they have every right to. There's been a ton more talking negatively in general about the asa who probably don't regularly shoot them or may have never even been to one. Just like I stated if all those archers shot 20 known and 20 unknown no matter what side unless one side was a whole lot easier the playing field was still level.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Stop trying to Kiss Mikes butt, I dont owe the Asa anything. I paid my entry fee period. Rulrs are Rulrs . Ive not really seen anyone putting the Asa down? Have u? It is what it is and I could care less what you think you know or your opinion. If u didnt shoot C why are you even commenting? And no one.has put Mike down. .


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

i only shoot the ibo im from up north but dont tell me that knowing the yardage doesnt matter your kidding yourself ifs its 38 and i know that its a huge difference than shooting it for 40!


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## 3-D Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

Archery Shooters Association
P. O. Box 399 Kennesaw, Ga 30156
Tel: (770) 795-0232/Fax: (770) 795-0953
www.asaarchery.com


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Daniel Boone said:


> Sonny me and you have seen pro chrono can be off from one to the next. Several times they have had two chronos at the bags and both read as much as 6fps different. I set mine with my Pro Chrono and have seen all kinds of different readings from mine.
> DB


Yep and you can even shoot them if you don't watch what you're doing....  Oh yeah. .44 mag will put one down range about 5 yards. Tod put mine up 4 sale with "only used once."


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## JWP41 (Jun 21, 2011)

Everybody shot 40 targets, The problem is the they had to split the groups up because they said there were too many people for one course. The range official screwed up and had the group who got sent off their normal, range shoot what would have been the range they shot known that evening. Instead they shot that range unknown while the other group was also shooting unknown. That evening the groups switched ranges and shot known on the opposite range. The problem is yes the asa range officials on that course screwed up---------------------but Everybody still shot 20 targets known and 20 targets unkown. Yes you didn't shoot the same targets Knowing the yardage as the other group. Can you with out a doubt say that the courses were so much different that it would have affected the overall outcome of the scores?


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## JWP41 (Jun 21, 2011)

I can comment because I saw both courses, my wife shoots womens known on the same ranges, both courses were pretty close overall in difficulty. It shoudn't matter which 20 you knew the yardage on and which 20 you didn't. Everybody still shot 20 targets knowing the yardage and 20 they didn't. I have no reason to kiss mike's but. There's been people on here complaining from everything the asa did on the range for open c, to the targets they used. I never said you didn't have a right to request your money back. You think you don't owe the asa anything huh? Explain to 1,300 shooters where they could get this kind of gathering and competition next year if they just listened to every cry baby who didn't have a good shoot or didn't like a course ley out and shut down! You may not but there's a lot of us out there that a thankful someone is giving us these opportunities even if they make a few mistakes along the way.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Can I say.they where that much different? Yes I cam H in the morning unknown was alot tougher 46 degrees and low light was tough. I shot well tho. I u.derstand aloy of shooters and split ranges but shouldn't Mike known about the split rangr? He didnt. He said we shot H unknown first then G known that evening. So who decided to split it if he didnt even know? I just dont want more Huge mishaps. It just needs to be addressed. Ive known zmike fot 15 years I know he is a good guy


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## JWP41 (Jun 21, 2011)

genohuh said:


> Can I say.they where that much different? Yes I cam H in the morning unknown was alot tougher 46 degrees and low light was tough. I shot well tho. I u.derstand aloy of shooters and split ranges but shouldn't Mike known about the split rangr? He didnt. He said we shot H unknown first then G known that evening. So who decided to split it if he didnt even know? I just dont want more Huge mishaps. It just needs to be addressed. Ive known zmike fot 15 years I know he is a good guy


Yes your right I never said it was right! I shot open c there last year same ranges. They waited till everyone got to the stakes then split us the same way. Though we shot the other side known while the other group shot unknown. I know you've got a great point about it being unfair. I just want everyone to remember given the number of shooters and how much work goes into it, there's going to be a mistake every once and w while. I personally am thankful that the asa does the job the do. It gives me the opportunity to meet and shoot with new people from all over the country. I am on your side though in not understanding why Mike hasn't re-addressed this on the asa site given the amount of people who have vouched that it happened. I know what you mean about the lighting, My wife shot horrible that weekend said she couldn't see anything. Our lighting wasn't much better down in the swamp! lol


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

I shot z in the Team shoot in the swamp. I dont see this beinh Mikes fault at all. They split us up when I signed up at the trailer. The range officials Just messed up. But all the changes with out mike knowing is odd. He hasnt addressed it on Asa forum be it was Kate Fri. He thinks ive been sadly misinformed.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Anyone know the final numbers for Open C?

We shot 3 to a stake at 8am..... why not just shoot 6 to a stake, like other classes have done this year. Put both 12s in play and let them eat?

At 3pm there were empty targets when I moved to G - I was on a target with one other, and the third from our group never showed - he may have been shooting sunday, dont know. We got moved to other targets so there were groups of 4 and groups of 3..... really kind of slowed and jammed things up for others.

It is what it is - 

When I explained this to my buddy whom shoots Semi - he said it still wasnt fair to split the class at all. It would give someone an unfailr advantage (his theory being those that shot unknown first compared to known knew exactly where they stood and would effect their course management)

Oh well....it still is what it is.

See you all in Metropolis!


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

20 up won C


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

JWP41 said:


> I can comment because I saw both courses, my wife shoots womens known on the same ranges, both courses were pretty close overall in difficulty. It shoudn't matter which 20 you knew the yardage on and which 20 you didn't. Everybody still shot 20 targets knowing the yardage and 20 they didn't. I have no reason to kiss mike's but. There's been people on here complaining from everything the asa did on the range for open c, to the targets they used. I never said you didn't have a right to request your money back. You think you don't owe the asa anything huh? Explain to 1,300 shooters where they could get this kind of gathering and competition next year if they just listened to every cry baby who didn't have a good shoot or didn't like a course ley out and shut down! You may not but there's a lot of us out there that a thankful someone is giving us these opportunities even if they make a few mistakes along the way.


Sure they can. No one doubted it was unfair but you. Your asking questions then you think it was fair then? ASA is not saying or admitting anything was done wrong. Who saying ASA bad? It some that drove miles wanting someone to atleast ackowledge it happened at ASA now.
I think some here have been level headed and just want to see that it gets corrected. How possiable can they be wrong.
DB


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## 3-D Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

Just my opinion...
Open C; All Known.
Open B: 50/50.
Open A: All Unknown.
This would create a progression of classes.
Since Open C has been surrounded by confusion as of late due to the fact: that sometime it's shot on two days; and sometime it's all shot in one day. It really wouldn't matter which course you shot, the playing field would be leveled.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

3-D Quest said:


> Just my opinion...
> Open C; All Known.
> Open B: 50/50.
> Open A: All Unknown.
> ...



I like this idea here 
Maybe BIG MIKE from the ASA will look on here and see what the people want and are asking for!!!!!

DB - ASA may make the rules but the shooters pay the bills!!! We are the customers and in all the business classes I have taken say keep the customers happy and they will keep bringing you the money!!!!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

3-D Quest said:


> Just my opinion...
> Open C; All Known.
> Open B: 50/50.
> Open A: All Unknown.
> ...


I can't say ...but.....ummm we will see


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## JWP41 (Jun 21, 2011)

Daniel Boone said:


> Sure they can. No one doubted it was unfair but you. Your asking questions then you think it was fair then? ASA is not saying or admitting anything was done wrong. Who saying ASA bad? It some that drove miles wanting someone to atleast ackowledge it happened at ASA now.
> I think some here have been level headed and just want to see that it gets corrected. How possiable can they be wrong.
> DB


DB--- I never said what they did was wasn't wrong. I know that people who shot may have felt wronged or cheated. I simply wanted to make it clear that everybody still shot 20 and 20 both ways. As Geno corrected me on the lighting and lanes probably were a little different and I agree with that. The point is that that the range officials for those two particular ranges are more to blame than Mike. They did the same thing to us last year when I shot that class. We simply asked the range official during the switch if we're supposed to shoot it known since it was scheduled to be our known range and they told us yes. I find it strange that out of everybody switched this year nobody asked that question up front. It is what it is, and you can't change that now. I suggest to everybody that shoots that class to try and get used to the extra 5 yards and step up to B or A. It's more smooth going during the shoot and you don't have to shoot that many targets in one day.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

JWP - it was asked up front.....Brad-G commented when he was moved and asked them before any arrows were shot.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

If the Pro Class was split up and say Levi and Hacker and Wallace all shot one lot of 20 targets on Sunday and Hopkins Hammer and Koch shot another set of 20 targets on Sunday that and they used the scores from Saturday and Sunday to decide the winner I am sure people would be crying a whole lot more than this.....The only reason ASA does this is because its OPEN C and no one really cares about OPEN C and they feel they can push the class around......They would never attempt this kinda of action on the PROs!!!!


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## 3-D Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

Apparently, there certainly has been a lot of confusion lately with Open C.
All I know is, it truly has been unfortunate for everyone (ASA and Open C competitors) involved. 
Some changes really need to be made:
Such as a top ten finish and your gone! After all, this is suppose to be a novice open class.


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## JWP41 (Jun 21, 2011)

Garceau said:


> JWP - it was asked up front.....Brad-G commented when he was moved and asked them before any arrows were shot.


That being the case then I guess I would be upset too. I think the range officials who were running the two ranges should be booted. Common sense shoud have told them from years past what the setup should be. I was a little quick to jump the gun and defend them but after several days now and no more response from Mike I guess it's a little difficult to defend them in this situation.


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## toypar (Feb 7, 2008)

Just my opinion 
You already have two known classes in known 50 and known 45
Do away with open c and just have open 50 and open 45 all unknown 
You sure don't need a known 40 class called open c


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

toypar said:


> Just my opinion
> You already have two known classes in known 50 and known 45
> Do away with open c and just have open 50 and open 45 all unknown
> You sure don't need a known 40 class called open c


I like your thinking less classes would be nice I like your idea of a open 45 and 50 then semi and Pro.. Have a Novice Pins 35 - Pins 40 and a Pro Pins 50... I hate using the word hunter becuase this is target archery not hunting... That will be 7 classes that all you need..


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

cenochs said:


> I like your thinking less classes would be nice I like your idea of a open 45 and 50 then semi and Pro.. Have a Novice Pins 35 - Pins 40 and a Pro Pins 50... I hate using the word hunter becuase this is target archery not hunting... That will be 7 classes that all you need..


Like this Idea also


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Less Classes would equal Less Money for the Big Man.....Some people would just stop coming to the events cause they knew they had no chance to win in there respected class


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

http://asaforum.com/index.php?topic=7414.0


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

No way will they change anything in open C or znovice to much money and turnout talking over 70 grand a month or more


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

genohuh said:


> No way will they change anything in open C or znovice to much money and turnout talking over 70 grand a month or more


MONEY is what drives the world I guess....still like to see some good customer service from time to time....useally ASA is on top of there game but they drop the ball this time and its time to step up to the plate make it right with the people who shot OPEN C and spent there hard earn $$$ to come to the event and make them have a warm fuzzy feeling about what happened and ensure them there are steps in place so it wont happen again!!!!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Babyk said:


> Less Classes would equal Less Money for the Big Man.....Some people would just stop coming to the events cause they knew they had no chance to win in there respected class


Not everyone has a chance to win know with all these classes but they still show up! People need to start thinking this way... Would you rather have 75 in a class paying back 15 places or 150 in a class paying back 30!! Looks to me more people would be winning money with less - larger classes!!


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

cenochs said:


> Not everyone has a chance to win know with all these classes but they still show up! People need to start thinking this way... Would you rather have 75 in a class paying back 15 places or 150 in a class paying back 30!! Looks to me more people would be winning money with less - larger classes!!


You do make a vaild point sir.......


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## 918hoytman918 (Jan 20, 2012)

Looks like I'll be shooting known 45 in IL. I'm not doing that again. 40 targets in one day. And I plan on moving up next year anyway.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

I just talked to Mike, he said he split G and H range. I explained what else happened he responded, " guess the range officials madr a mistake didnt they" ill make sure.it doesn't.happen again. And he hung up. Wow!!


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Then I got blasted on the Ssa forum by the federation guy. Said I finished 52nd and was accusing them of intentionality doing what happened. Wow. I never said that. Just.goes to show you they do what they want period. And tried to make me look bad for talking about it on AT. Nice!


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Then I got blasted on the asa forum by the federation guy. Said I finished 52nd and was accusing them of intentionality doing what happened. Wow. I never said that. Just.goes to show you they do what they want period. And tried to make me look bad for talking about it on AT. Nice!


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## gaberichter (Aug 31, 2008)

Has anyone else noticed that the thread on the ASA forum has been removed? Or maybe im just not seeing it. Pretty sketchy if it was.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Its gone


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

3Dblackncamo said:


> you guys are pissed and maybe you should be, be posting all of this over here will get you NOWHERE, go to the asa forum and raise hell, AT is the wrong place for this, it will do no good, I have shot open c, one yr I rolled in kentucky and went to register they told me I would have to shoot it all on sat, I told them as long as I am paying for it I will not shoot it all in 1 day so I went to B, its not going to change, open c gets flooded and I will tell from previous experience you will enjoy B or A much better than C, if you register eary enough they will let you shoot c in 2 days, C also has no shooter of the yr


You are definitely mistaken. There have been over 4,500 "views" of this thread. People all over ASA land are now aware that there was a problem with how Open C was run in Kentucky. Any business or organization would be none too happy about a "mistake" being published and discussed by their customer base across their entire market. The internet is a great tool and a curse at the same time for businesses and organizations. Facts, myths and out right lies can be circulated. In this case Open C range officials made a mistake. Maybe the ASA will do something for those archers impacted. But let's be clear here, it was an honest mistake that was not knowingly made to benefit any particular individual(s). Yes, it may have changed the standings but we can't put our finger on exactly whom benefited. Can we?

A BIG mistake was Mike not being made aware of the situation promptly. Personally, I would require that I be notified of such errors by ASA staff immediately. I'd be none too happy to find out about a "problem" through the internet! I've found that because of AT archery organizations can no longer count on "mistakes" or WORSE being ignored and counting on a dis-connected archery community to not be made aware of the actual facts of a situation. It used to be that when something "not right" happened it would all be so murky it would about impossible to tell fact from fiction. But now those directly involved can go public quickly and accurate info is disseminated to the world. Archery organizations and businesses can no longer "let it blow over" or just hide.

Out of the NFAA, ASA and IBO the ASA is hands down the best run organization. There is no comparison with how the ASA works to provide what the market desires. There is no comparison in running and organizing a tournament. They have the newer Known distance classes, Pro/Am, Simms and the speed shoot. Each range has a range official that is easily accessible. The IBO is stuck in time with some tournament structure flaws. The NFAA is simply a joke in all aspects from top to bottom. Their main game is fading in popularity and their most popular tournament, Vegas, isn't owned by the NFAA. The NFAA is essentially owned and operated by Bruce Cull but he has the "safety wall" of not being the "man" in writing to membership.

Generally the "bad" things you see or hear about at an ASA tournament are small. Do I have criticisms? Sure, more practice 3D targets would be nice. A few more shorter distance, 35-40 and under, practice bags. Just look at the number of archers shooting 40 and under classes. Then add in that about EVERYONE shoots a 30 yard target. Practice bags not in the bright, scorching sun would be nice since we frequently shoot courses in the shade. Have 2 different "sets" or line of practice bags. Having all the bags together slows things way down.


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## birddawg (Jul 23, 2009)

Babyk said:


> I would take my "crying" as you call it to Mike but he's probley to busy counting all the cash he made off Open C and Bow Novice class and I wouldn't want to bother him while he busy.


Man Baby thats fitting in this case! Mistakes happen give them a chance to do something about it. I believe if you are "crying" this much you should most likely just stay home!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Of the ASA Post, I thought it was ill worded to begin with and did not explain what really did happen. That didn't help things.

The thing is, everyone shot their 20 Known and 20 Unknown.

Genohuh, in here, replied no one cheated.

Personally, I don't give damn what range I shoot as Known or Unknown. Easier or time of day means absolutely nothing. I consider both as Luck of the Draw.
What if the person that won shot Saturday (so 20 good targets) and it poured down rain all of Sunday? Would it have been unfair?


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

The reason I personally didnt report it was I was in the bed sick from Sunday til Thursday night. Then I said something. No where did I say Asa wasnt a good thing. I nevet blamed anyone. I said clearly noone cheated. But the thing ive got out of all of this is keep your mouth shut. Speaking out does nothing but have you ridiculed


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

genohuh said:


> The reason I personally didnt report it was I was in the bed sick from Sunday til Thursday night. Then I said something. No where did I say Asa wasnt a good thing. I nevet blamed anyone. I said clearly noone cheated. But the thing ive got out of all of this is keep your mouth shut. Speaking out does nothing but have you ridiculed


There you go right from the horses mouth. About what I thought you would get. Just have to decide whether we are willing to travel and realize sometimes things are going to happen and it are choice if we feel it fair or not. Bottomline we all got a choice.
DB


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Your right DB, but my Grandmother always told me, right is right wrong is wrong. Speak up when your right and nothinh else matters. Shoot straight guys


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

genohuh said:


> That was 2000.. 3 heart attacks and a pacemaker later I wanted to shoot again. 3 years ago I shot in my first Tourny since. I pulled the lead out of my heart shooting. Surgery fixed it so I wantrd to get my feet wet for the last 3 Tournaments. Thats why C...


What was your ASA Number back then? I have searched records as far back as possible and had Lorraine check the ASA member database and the only tournament your show on is Georgia 2012 where you placed 72 in Open C.


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

Babyk said:


> I know if you call Mike from ASA he will be more than happy to answer your questions!!!! Hes always answered when I called!!!
> 
> Also I know of a guy who won his Shoote of the Year Class at his state level and won two if not more qualifiers and is still being allowed to compete at a state and national level in OPEN C......


Who is that? Send me a PM and he'll get moved up.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Tbh I dont remember, pretty sure I have a new number now what I did back matters why? 72nd yep but since u brought it up pull my group crioall them and ask them what happened lol look at my 12 count. But when a kids runs down the road and jumps you Bow and knocks it over breaking your rest your gonna drop. No biggie. Think I shot 10 14s and 3 or 4 12s


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## ldfalks (Mar 14, 2003)

genohuh said:


> Then I got blasted on the asa forum by the federation guy. Said I finished 52nd and was accusing them of intentionality doing what happened. Wow. I never said that. Just.goes to show you they do what they want period. And tried to make me look bad for talking about it on AT. Nice!


genohuh/TnVol, I didn't blast you about anythig. You did finish 52nd and you finished 72nd in GA which is the only other tournament that I can find that you shot. If you are currently on the PSE Pro Satff you maybe shouldn't be in Open C anyway. All I asked you was why you didn't report this to Mike Tyrell or the ASA Staff (registration staff and tournament director) as soon as you found out that something was not right. There was plenty of time to have officially reported this and fixed any problem which may have happened. Waiting a week and then coming to AT isn't the way to fix something.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Report it? The range officials knew. They admitted it. No need to keep on now. Pro staff ughhh here we go again. Pro is promotional staff. Anyway no worries ill be in Semi next time. You have 3 heart attacks, pacemaker, diabettes, fibromyalgia no way would I just jump back in Semi. All my point was officials knew about this period. Nothing was said to us either.. Its over I shouldn't have said a wird I get it..


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## kingalw (Aug 30, 2009)

ldfalks said:


> What was your ASA Number back then? I have searched records as far back as possible and had Lorraine check the ASA member database and the only tournament your show on is Georgia 2012 where you placed 72 in Open C.


What does this have to do with the original post? This discussion has gotten so far off topic it's not even funny. I think the original poster and a bunch of the novice / Open C shooters would all agree that those classes are treated like redheaded stepchildren. Like it was stated earlier, had this happened in any other class, there would have been an uproar and it would have gotten corrected. What's done is done, but they could at least admit it happened, make sure it doesn't happen again, and apologize for it. It was an honest mistake, but the way it has been handled is ridiculous.


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## kingalw (Aug 30, 2009)

ldfalks said:


> genohuh/TnVol, I didn't blast you about anythig. You did finish 52nd and you finished 72nd in GA which is the only other tournament that I can find that you shot. If you are currently on the PSE Pro Satff you maybe shouldn't be in Open C anyway. All I asked you was why you didn't report this to Mike Tyrell or the ASA Staff (registration staff and tournament director) as soon as you found out that something was not right. There was plenty of time to have officially reported this and fixed any problem which may have happened. Waiting a week and then coming to AT isn't the way to fix something.


The range officials knew this happened by target 6 or 7 that morning (see my earlier post). Heck they told our group it happened. If they knew, Mike should have known. This is a stupid argument that does nothing to further the discussion on the true issue at hand.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Some place very Hot must have frozen over, I agree with Dee on something.





ldfalks said:


> genohuh/TnVol, I didn't blast you about anythig. You did finish 52nd and you finished 72nd in GA which is the only other tournament that I can find that you shot. If you are currently on the PSE Pro Satff you maybe shouldn't be in Open C anyway. All I asked you was why you didn't report this to Mike Tyrell or the ASA Staff (registration staff and tournament director) as soon as you found out that something was not right. There was plenty of time to have officially reported this and fixed any problem which may have happened. Waiting a week and then coming to AT isn't the way to fix something.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

kingalw said:


> What does this have to do with the original post? This discussion has gotten so far off topic it's not even funny. I think the original poster and a bunch of the novice / Open C shooters would all agree that those classes are treated like redheaded stepchildren. Like it was stated earlier, had this happened in any other class, there would have been an uproar and it would have gotten corrected. What's done is done, but they could at least admit it happened, make sure it doesn't happen again, and apologize for it. It was an honest mistake, but the way it has been handled is ridiculous.


Well knowing what Dee's thought process here is.....there is someone claiming that rules are rules and rules have to be followed....which I would guess would include the rule about former semi-pro shooters dropping back to Open C without permission from the Competition Committee.....which is also a rule.


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## kingalw (Aug 30, 2009)

So go start another thread about Semi Pro shooters dropping back down to Open C. Attacking the original poster for that to try and discredit his original argument is just trying to put up a big smoke screen to draw attention away from the issue that started this thread with almost 250 posts and 5000 views. Let's try to stay on point.



reylamb said:


> Well knowing what Dee's thought process here is.....there is someone claiming that rules are rules and rules have to be followed....which I would guess would include the rule about former semi-pro shooters dropping back to Open C without permission from the Competition Committee.....which is also a rule.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

why is it right for a pro to move back to semi or even amatuer whcih I know a few that have done it recently.Just cause someone is putting in the hard work to be on a staff does not mean they should be a semi or pro.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

the bottom line is open c and novice are treated different than other classes and have been for a long time but still pay an entry fee like any other class. Look back at the last pro/am in mrytle beach both novice and c got canceled the next day but other classes shot due to weather.. If these classses are not wanted then do away with them.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

kingalw said:


> So go start another thread about Semi Pro shooters dropping back down to Open C. Attacking the original poster for that to try and discredit his original argument is just trying to put up a big smoke screen to draw attention away from the issue that started this thread with almost 250 posts and 5000 views. Let's try to stay on point.


I simply answered the question as to why D thought it mattered. 



treeman65 said:


> why is it right for a pro to move back to semi or even amatuer whcih I know a few that have done it recently.Just cause someone is putting in the hard work to be on a staff does not mean they should be a semi or pro.


Well, it doesn't matter to me either way. The rules allow for moving back a class, with permission from the committee. The rules do not allow to ever go back to Open C or Novice, as they are for beginning ASA shooters.



treeman65 said:


> the bottom line is open c and novice are treated different than other classes and have been for a long time but still pay an entry fee like any other class. Look back at the last pro/am in mrytle beach both novice and c got canceled the next day but other classes shot due to weather.. If these classses are not wanted then do away with them.


That Myrtle Beach shoot drove me out of Open C. Well that and I got tired of shooting on noon on Sunday when everyone I rode with was headed home. Of course that Myrtle Beach shoot almost drove me out of ASA completely, that was pure misery that weekend.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

reylamb said:


> I simply answered the question as to why D thought it mattered.
> 
> Well, it doesn't matter to me either way. The rules allow for moving back a class, with permission from the committee. The rules do not allow to ever go back to Open C or Novice, as they are for beginning ASA shooters
> That Myrtle Beach shoot drove me out of Open C. Well that and I got tired of shooting on noon on Sunday when everyone I rode with was headed home. Of course that Myrtle Beach shoot almost drove me out of ASA completely, that was pure misery that weekend.


it doesnt matter to me either just funny how someone people say **** and do the opposite on here (not meaning you)
that was my first shoot and boy that weather was rough.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Babyk said:


> Also I know of a guy who won his Shoote of the Year Class at his state level and won two if not more qualifiers and is still being allowed to compete at a state and national level in OPEN C......


So did he win out or are you going by state imposed rules? Just asking.....


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> So did he win out or are you going by state imposed rules? Just asking.....


what state imposed rules that is a joke.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

There is no rule that says after 12 years absence I cant shoot open C. None! Ive seen many sponsered shooers in C class. But making stabs at something that was 12 years ago is simply BS!


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

Open C is a novice class just like bow novice. These classes are for new people coming in the sport. If you have shot in the semi pro class you should not be able to go back to these classes. You are not a beginner. If there is not a rule there needs to be one.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

SonnyThomas said:


> So did he win out or are you going by state imposed rules? Just asking.....





treeman65 said:


> what state imposed rules that is a joke.


State imposed rule, example of; Win two Qualifiers and maybe $40 and you're required to move up. Win a State Champion and maybe $30 and you're required to move up. Now, if on the national circuit and you stay under X amount you can stay in class forever.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

kent,
I still feel the same way it went nowhere! 5000 views 10 pages the thread at the asa forum is no gone, I did not say it was right I said take it to the forum, AT will get you nowhere


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

So now we all know the range officials made a mistake and even admitted and knew it at the time.

No one messed up but the ASA range officials and it unfortunate, why attack the OP for stating exactly what others said as well.

Dont even get me started on members shooting classes there not suppose too. 
DB

Genohuh I would just ask the mods to close this. You did the right thing and reported it. All you can do. Vultures are circling and your not going to win any arguement with a few here.
DB


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Daniel Boone said:


> So now we all know the range officials made a mistake and even admitted and knew it at the time.
> 
> No one messed up but the ASA range officials and it unfortunate, why attack the OP for stating exactly what others said as well.
> 
> ...


were all humans, and we all should be thankful we have ASA and 3D shoots that we can go to, we all take things for granted and dont realize what we have until its gone, lets all get along and remember this site is about archers helping archers!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3Dblackncamo said:


> were all humans, and we all should be thankful we have ASA and 3D shoots that we can go to, we all take things for granted and dont realize what we have until its gone, lets all get along and remember this site is about archers helping archers!


All OP did was try to convey what happened. He didnt come here and slam ASA. 
DB


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> State imposed rule, example of; Win two Qualifiers and maybe $40 and you're required to move up. Win a State Champion and maybe $30 and you're required to move up. Now, if on the national circuit and you stay under X amount you can stay in class forever.


you show me that rule somewhere.I saw were that was not aloud to be done per the asa office .


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

3Dblackncamo said:


> were all humans, and we all should be thankful we have ASA and 3D shoots that we can go to, we all take things for granted and dont realize what we have until its gone, lets all get along and remember this site is about archers helping archers!


Dont forget IBO


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> So now we all know the range officials made a mistake and even admitted and knew it at the time.
> 
> No one messed up but the ASA range officials and it unfortunate, why attack the OP for stating exactly what others said as well.
> 
> ...


he is right to the fact that open c got screwed again.
so do you think people should be able to shoot whatever class they want


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Wasn't slamming the Asa at all. Very thankfull. Going back to Semi. Now no argument at all. Any mods seee's this I am the OP plase shut it down even delete it please. Its getting off track thanka. Good luck guys


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## gaberichter (Aug 31, 2008)

Do any of these apply? Sorry Honey Badger. Had to go off topic.

ASA reserves the right at any time to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery experience, performance in other archery competitions, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization. If, for example, someone shooting ASA for the first time feels that they are entitled to compete in the Open “C” class, but their previous archery experience, or competition status in another organization confirms that they are not a novice, then ASA reserves the right to require that individual to compete in a higher Open class. Anyone who competes using a compound bow as a professional or semi-professional in other nationally sanctioned 3-D or field events must compete in the respective ASA Pro class if available. In addition, anyone who receives sponsor support that exceeds $2,000.00 per year in products, equipment, services, or cash is required to shoot in semi-pro or pro. Anyone who has earned more than $5,000.00 in career ASA Pro/Am earnings must compete in Semi-Pro or Pro. Anyone who has won their way out of an ASA class may not return to that class unless approved by the Competition Committee. Any requests for consideration for reassignment to a lower class must be submitted in writing no less than two weeks prior to competition for review by the Competition Committee.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

From year to year dropping back a class is no big deal. But after 12 years? Cmon biggg difference


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

treeman65 said:


> he is right to the fact that open c got screwed again.
> so do you think people should be able to shoot whatever class they want


Looked at where he finished. He honestly shooting the right class. This thread not about C class and who should shoot it.
DB


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Looked at where he finished. He honestly shooting the right class. This thread not about C class and who should shoot it.
> DB


figured that would be your answer lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

treeman65 said:


> figured that would be your answer lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll


Figured you werent smart enough to see comman sense. Difference between me and you.


DB


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Figured you werent smart enough to see comman sense. Difference between me and you.
> 
> 
> DB[/QUOT
> oh thats right if you dont agree with dbs views on here you get attacked.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

For Dee Falks comment about this guy "maybe shouldn't even be in open c because he is in PSE Pro Staff" is totally out if line and uncalled for!!! 
Who is he to judge!! He's always rubbed me the wrong way and this here goes to show I was right. Here's a guy who comes to the shoots pays his entry fees, put food on Dee table and he takes a shot at the guy on a open forum??? 
I don't know about you but that to me is wrong and uncalled for

Good job Dee for meeting my expectations of you


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

treeman65 said:


> Daniel Boone said:
> 
> 
> > Figured you werent smart enough to see comman sense. Difference between me and you.
> ...


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Babyk said:


> For Dee Falks comment about this guy "maybe shouldn't even be in open c because he is in PSE Pro Staff" is totally out if line and uncalled for!!!
> Who is he to judge!! He's always rubbed me the wrong way and this here goes to show I was right. Here's a guy who comes to the shoots pays his entry fees, put food on Dee table and he takes a shot at the guy on a open forum???
> I don't know about you but that to me is wrong and uncalled for
> 
> Good job Dee for meeting my expectations of you


:darkbeer:


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