# The gap



## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Gap system has been described in many differant ways the one I would like to dicuss is the same as ITBESO's. in the last post about the gap system there was a huge amount of good information. I will copy and paste what itbeso said then add a littlt to it.






please lets dicuss this system ok?


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

forget the photo by the way this was my wife's idea this is how she learned to see the gap and she kicks my butt on a regular basis

Gary


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Gary,

I want in on this discussion but have to run to give an archery class right now. I am one of those that has never understood how a gap shooter can claim a gap of 1/4 or 1/2 inch. I (for 50+ years) have seen the gap at the target. My gap at 20 yards is 30" and my POD is 57 yards - split finger. I do just fine with it thanks but as a coach, I want to understand every method out there that I can.

I really want to understand this method, I know many use it - but I've NEVER run into someone willing to explain it. So far I've tried to read your post twice but without some paragraph breaks it is a little hard. So far, I still cannot see other than about a 12" gap between your finger and the spot on the door. And the card above is just 4 small rectangles meaning what?. I also do not understand your distinction between the arrow point and the"arc of the arrow" that is forming the gap.

Anyway, will be back on in about 4 hours and again tomorrow.

Arne


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Moe, Take a measuring tape to the screen of your computer and measure the distance between the spot and the tip of gary's arrow. That is the GAP. You are used to looking at a distance up at the target as your gap. that is really a point of aim. Also, as Gary will tell you, it is extremely hard to see your short gaps with a 57 yard point on. Thats why trying to get your point on to 40 or less works much better. good luck


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Gary, you spineless weasel, you know it is the best system, you just don't want everyone coming down on you as they did me on the other thread. Man up!


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## guyver (Jan 3, 2012)

If you look closely at his pic it may help. Those window cutouts are what I believe to be gaps literally above your arrow. 

For instance imagine your arrow at the bottom of one of the windows, the top of that cut out would be your gap reference ( not the target). The small gap references (1/4 inch, 1/2 inch) are referring to the gaps 'from the arrow' and the larger gaps (10 inches) are in reference to the target. 

Maybe think of it as 'arrow gaps' and 'target gaps'.

I would also like some clarification on the arc thing


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

57 yd point is a long way by the time you get to 30 yds you could have a 1 1/2" gap or bigger. this gap system works best in my oppinion with a 40 to 45yd point I have a 40yd point at 35 yds it is 1/4" at 30 yds it is 3/8" 25yds is 7/16" 20yds is 7/16" 15yds is back to 3/8" everybodys gap will be a little differant depending on how close the arrow is to your eye and how long your arrow is how fast your bow is and so on.
you can use this system with one eye closed but then when you get past your point on the shaft covers the target. you need both eyes open to see the longer targets. you may need to go to 3under to reduce your point.

take post card cut a 3/4" slot in it about 1 1/2" long hold it at arms lenth look through it.put the top of the slot on the dot look where the bottom of the slot is this about the picture at 20 yds I have with my recurve. but don't focus on the arrow or the dot look for the 3/4" gap. it takes time but you will see it. 
PM me for my phone number if you want 5 min. on the phone is two days of typing.

Gary


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

Moebow said:


> Gary,
> 
> I want in on this discussion but have to run to give an archery class right now. I am one of those that has never understood how a gap shooter can claim a gap of 1/4 or 1/2 inch. I (for 50+ years) have seen the gap at the target. My gap at 20 yards is 30" and my POD is 57 yards - split finger. I do just fine with it thanks but as a coach, I want to understand every method out there that I can.
> 
> ...



And that's exactly why I never have seen any gap system as reliable. I shot compounds enough to get fairly good at estimating yardage. But to say that I can tell the difference between 13in and 14 or15in at 35 yds would be a stretch for me. So at that point I have an estimate and a guesstimate and if I happen to get them both wrong at the same time(very possible) then it's a sure miss,probably by a wide margin.

Like you I see what could be anywhere from 10 inches to 13 inches of gap in the first picture and slots in a card on the second.

Looks like I just don't have enough imagination to see the sight picture that is being described.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

of cource I know it's the best for me thats why I use it 


itbeso said:


> Gary, you spineless weasel, you know it is the best system, you just don't want everyone coming down on you as they did me on the other thread. Man up!


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Gary,
Thanks for the explanation, as I am tuning my longbow for the new longbow class I will try it out. I can see now how this could be very accurate. I still like knowing that if I hold my ILF recurve riser's shelf on the X it is a certain yardage, and the other points on it as I draw back (just like knowing my point on is 47 yards). However, I can see where this up close gapping is easier than at the target 30+ yards away with a gap of 30"'s or so.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

When I get home I'll post up some info. I've been working on some pics to show various aiming methods.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

ok see the distance between the finger and thumb that is a 1/2" point your finger at something like a doornob visualize the doornob 1/2" above your finger. you will see the spot 1/2" above your arrow in the window not down at the bale


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

OK I am going home see you tomorrow you guy's be nice tonight


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Now I confused but happy. Confused because this was what I always understood to be how the gap system worked and happy to now understand what I couldn't from the other thread. Thanks Gary.

Chris, some pics to clarify the situation would be a big help. Of course, I could look at Vipers book.........if I hadn't forgotten who I loaned it to.....................


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## onlyaspike (Apr 16, 2007)

This is a GREAT way to look at aiming....I havent had a chance to shoot using it yet...Hay fields and Work kinda got me strapped right now...but I think this is gonna help alot of guys..
Moe, 
look at Garys finger and the "spot" he has on the door....on your pc screen there is about a 1" GAP between the 2...correct...now thats right there looking at your screen...take a tape measure and measure the difference.....The way you've been GAP shooting is your looking at the same gap....just at the distance the target is away from you (i.e. if you look at the distance between the spot and Garys finger AT THE DOOR (distance) it is prob about the 12"-13" you said......Thats also how Ive been doing it so far...Ive been GAPing "AT THE TARGET" not right in front of me...I think using Gary's and itbeso's method is gonna help alot of people...I wish It would of been explained to me like that when I started.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

itbeso said:


> Gary, you spineless weasel, you know it is the best system, you just don't want everyone coming down on you as they did me on the other thread. Man up!



Haha,and the weasel even started a new thread to boot. That's ok though, maybe we needed a restart and a new look through another set of eyes.
Speaking of eyes, I think that's my problem. In this case it must about "how you look at it". I did measure the gap on the door at 1 inch on the screen. When I hold my finger and thumb about 1in apart and look through that gap at the window about 15yds away from me it takes up approamately 18inches of window. Now if I can learn how to 'look at it right' maybe I'll be smart enough to go outside and not lose my arrow when it sails 3ft over the target.

Now the disclaimer. I have never ever found any method that could replace my instinctive shooting. I also believe that the two may in fact be similar.


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

FORESTGUMP said:


> have never ever found any method that could replace my instinctive shooting. I also believe that the two may in fact be similar.


I think they are all similar depending on what you focus on and how you think about it.

Even stringwalking where there is a deliberate gap set on the string.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

2413gary said:


> View attachment 1383565
> ok see the distance between the finger and thumb that is a 1/2" point your finger at something like a doornob visualize the doornob 1/2" above your finger. you will see the spot 1/2" above your arrow in the window not down at the bale


Photos are sometimes worth a 1000 words...and in this case...they may be worth a million :wink:

This is EXACTLY what many of us have described as one of the few ways an archer can use the Gap Aiming technique.

This is basically how I use the Gap technique...especially when targets are closer to my POD...but I also incorporate my sight window for closer targets as a secondary reference.

Great job by adding pictures...it definitely helps communicate the technique better. :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

All the aiming techniques will have similarities....because in most cases...there will always be a gap somewhere in the sight picture between the target and the archer's aiming reference.

The only time a gap won't exist is if an archer is shooting at their POD or they are String or Face Walking and can adjust to place the arrow tip on the target for a specific distance.

Ray :shade:


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## barebowguy (Feb 1, 2009)

FORESTGUMP said:


> Haha,and the weasel even started a new thread to boot.
> Now the disclaimer. I have never ever found any method that could replace my instinctive shooting. I also believe that the two may in fact be similar.


Forest 
most of the people that I know that use this gap shoot the really short ones instinctive


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

This is great you guys are getting it and some already know. If this helps it will be harder to win
But I will be their

Gary


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

Dammit. oh well only killed one arrow.

It may not be impossible to teach old dogs new tricks,but in my case it's a tough assignment for sure. I think that I just have a serious mental block against any of this guesswork shooting. I can see the gap between my fingers on the screen,the door knob,the window but not on the target at 32yds which is what I was shooting.

However I do believe if some new shooters who are struggling with these things could grasp the idea that it would solve lots of problems.

For me,,,, apparently I just don't 'get it'.:BrownBear:


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Moebow said:


> Gary,
> 
> I want in on this discussion but have to run to give an archery class right now. I am one of those that has never understood how a gap shooter can claim a gap of 1/4 or 1/2 inch. I (for 50+ years) have seen the gap at the target. My gap at 20 yards is 30" and my POD is 57 yards - split finger. I do just fine with it thanks but as a coach, I want to understand every method out there that I can.
> 
> ...


Moe, the arrow tip and the arc that it creates when you are aiming are one and the same. Hope that clears things up.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Gary thanks for the pics. I was taught this method years ago shooting barebow compound. IMHO it is much better than gapping at the target. Using that method I couldn't ever deal with those huge gaps. Sam Stewart showed this to me on the practice range one day and it took awhile to work it out but after awhile it all clicked. To me it is like having the spot sitting in the air above the arrow shaft and figuring out how far above the shaft for various distances. Instead of looking at the spot on the target try to imagine the spot just hovering in the air at the end of your arrow. To practice use some dots that are easy to see. I used to use fluorescent orange stick on dots on the target face but anything will work that is easy to see. It makes the visualization easier. 
Great post guys!


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Sounds like you've got it sarge, good post, and say hey to sammy for me . I run into him every 3 years or so at a shoot.


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## beemer1234 (Dec 2, 2010)

2413gary said:


> 57 yd point is a long way by the time you get to 30 yds you could have a 1 1/2" gap or bigger. this gap system works best in my oppinion with a 40 to 45yd point I have a 40yd point at 35 yds it is 1/4" at 30 yds it is 3/8" 25yds is 7/16" 20yds is 7/16" 15yds is back to 3/8" everybodys gap will be a little differant depending on how close the arrow is to your eye
> Gary


I don't understand why your gap is the same for 15 yards and 30 yards. Can you please explain? 

Thanks


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I honestly thought this was how everyone set the gap? The only difference is how you express the relative distances.

-Grant


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

beemer1234 said:


> I don't understand why your gap is the same for 15 yards and 30 yards. Can you please explain?
> 
> Thanks


Arrow starts low, and then it reaches its pinnacle and starts descending again. For me my 4 yard is the same as my 40.

Grant, I think the difference for me is I gap using different items, as you know... my shelf, my rest arm, my riser window for some yardages... except when I am near my point on... then I gap off the target and not 30" in front of me at my tip.


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

The way the cars is cut out, the larger gap 3/4" is a closer target, the smallest is the farthest until point on comes into play.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

So, let me see if I understand this and put it into a slightly different perspective at the same time. Basically, we are taking a 3 dimensional site picture and visualizing it in a 2 dimensional format. For example, if i were to "gap" at the target, at let's say 30 yards, the gap at the target might be 15 inches. In other words, my 3 dimensional site image would measure a gap of 15" from the tip of the arrow to the target dot. However, if I were to snap a photograph of the gap from my eye (as if my eye were the camera), and then take that photo and put a ruler on it, measuring from the arrow tip to the target dot my 2 dimensional gap might be 1/2". That is my understanding of the original posters description of gapping as I am able to relate to it. Does that sound correct? In order to effectively gap we need to take the real life, 3 dimensional site picture, and visualize it as a 2 dimensional photograph. Am I wrong? I can see where some people may be able to easily do this and other's (myself included) have difficulty transferring that 3D image into a close range 2D type of picture.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

UrbanDeerSlayer said:


> So, let me see if I understand this and put it into a slightly different perspective at the same time. Basically, we are taking a 3 dimensional site picture and visualizing it in a 2 dimensional format. For example, if i were to "gap" at the target, at let's say 30 yards, the gap at the target might be 15 inches. In other words, my 3 dimensional site image would measure a gap of 15" from the tip of the arrow to the target dot. However, if I were to snap a photograph of the gap from my eye (as if my eye were the camera), and then take that photo and put a ruler on it, measuring from the arrow tip to the target dot my 2 dimensional gap might be 1/2". That is my understanding of the original posters description of gapping as I am able to relate to it. Does that sound correct? In order to effectively gap we need to take the real life, 3 dimensional site picture, and visualize it as a 2 dimensional photograph.


IMO...you basically NAILED IT!!!! :thumbs_up :wink:

Ray :shade:


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

You guys are way over my head now but the gap does work for me on 3d also:tongue:


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Urban, I don't what you are smokin but you did nail the concept. Congrats.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Some of us are Ok having a 60y point, on shorter shots I either Gap off riser or shoot instinctive :thumbs_up


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

itbeso said:


> Urban, I don't what you are smokin but you did nail the concept. Congrats.


yea, I gotta simplify things down to my level of understanding. Sort of a "hallucinated" frame of reality, I can understand the conceptualized reference to smoking contraband. Thats just how my mind works.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Steve help me understand gapping off the riser I still see your point down in the dirt with a 60yd point is this correct? and are you looking at the arrow instead of the spot? I totaly understand the instinctive side 
Gary


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Gary,
I can tell you how I gap off my riser for short distances, probably pretty whacky for some but works for me. My 20 yard is 1 1/2 inch up my riser above my plunger, for 25 yards I hold my arrow tip on the X, look where my plunger is, move tip of arrow to that spot (Pick a point correct?) FOr longer distances I use parts of my riser and equipment, my shelf is 77 yards, my plunger is 55 and I also stack the shelf to arrow or rest arm for other yardages, the back screw on my rest is 63 yards....


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

That is gapping at the arrow. I prefer to gap at the target - seem more accurate to me. At it's root gapping is 'stadia method' long used by surveyors as an angular method to estimate distance.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

UrbanDeerSlayer said:


> So, let me see if I understand this and put it into a slightly different perspective at the same time. Basically, we are taking a 3 dimensional site picture and visualizing it in a 2 dimensional format. For example, if i were to "gap" at the target, at let's say 30 yards, the gap at the target might be 15 inches. In other words, my 3 dimensional site image would measure a gap of 15" from the tip of the arrow to the target dot. However, if I were to snap a photograph of the gap from my eye (as if my eye were the camera), and then take that photo and put a ruler on it, measuring from the arrow tip to the target dot my 2 dimensional gap might be 1/2". That is my understanding of the original posters description of gapping as I am able to relate to it. Does that sound correct? In order to effectively gap we need to take the real life, 3 dimensional site picture, and visualize it as a 2 dimensional photograph. Am I wrong? I can see where some people may be able to easily do this and other's (myself included) have difficulty transferring that 3D image into a close range 2D type of picture.




That's pretty much the way I see it too. Being a curious sort I have a bad habit of trying out lots of different ideas for myself,but not usually curious enough to invest more than one busted arrow. That's what happend with this experiment and put the whole idea in file 13 with all the others. That's for my own purposes,and I still think that new shooters could probably make use of the idea.
If I were into shooting spots on a wall,then it might fly. But,in low light conditions like many hunting situations,I don't want to rely on seeing some imaginary 'gap'. Not as long as I still have the ability to just look where I want the arrow to hit and shoot it.

So,in my case,ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

What ever it takes to get the arrow in the middle and yes it would be pick a point. thats why GOD made so many ways to aim we are all wired a little differant. My wife says I am Haywired !
GARY



rsarns said:


> Gary,
> I can tell you how I gap off my riser for short distances, probably pretty whacky for some but works for me. My 20 yard is 1 1/2 inch up my riser above my plunger, for 25 yards I hold my arrow tip on the X, look where my plunger is, move tip of arrow to that spot (Pick a point correct?) FOr longer distances I use parts of my riser and equipment, my shelf is 77 yards, my plunger is 55 and I also stack the shelf to arrow or rest arm for other yardages, the back screw on my rest is 63 yards....


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Forrest I see it in low light also but when I am hunting it is more of an instinctive gap Burn that spot where I want the arrow to go not realy focused on the gap but it's kind of their does that make since? I shoot unmarked the same not guessing the yardage but I have an idea and then let my Instinctive ability make the shot. hope this burns off some of the fog
Gary


FORESTGUMP said:


> That's pretty much the way I see it too. Being a curious sort I have a bad habit of trying out lots of different ideas for myself,but not usually curious enough to invest more than one busted arrow. That's what happend with this experiment and put the whole idea in file 13 with all the others. That's for my own purposes,and I still think that new shooters could probably make use of the idea.
> If I were into shooting spots on a wall,then it might fly. But,in low light conditions like many hunting situations,I don't want to rely on seeing some imaginary 'gap'. Not as long as I still have the ability to just look where I want the arrow to hit and shoot it.
> 
> So,in my case,ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

Guys - just stringwalk and be done with it

Gary - great explanation that is how I set my gaps when shooting gap - works great for 3d but, on the little bit of field I have shot I used the whole grab bag - who cares what you use they are just different ways to get the arrow where it needs to be.

Forest - if you can't see your gap it probably isn't legal shooting light to begin with.

Matt


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

Matt_Potter said:


> Guys - just stringwalk and be done with it
> 
> Gary - great explanation that is how I set my gaps when shooting gap - works great for 3d but, on the little bit of field I have shot I used the whole grab bag - who cares what you use they are just different ways to get the arrow where it needs to be.
> 
> ...




Hmmmm,could that be? Where is legal shooting light based? At my deer stand in a dense bunch of trees,vines and general underbrush or by a clock?


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

Out here it is by a clock 1/2 before sun riser and 1/2 hour after - plenty of shooting light at that point.

Matt


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

Looks like more then a few “ah-ha” moments from this thread. My current PO is 35yards with a maximum gap of 21” which I have always measured at the target. I usually do well on deer sized 3D targets as most are around 16” from brisket to top of back and I can usually pick a spot to gap from somewhere on the belly or leg. However small targets or those surrounded by cover can give me fits (example: where on the ground is 16” below a partially hidden badger?). I may make up reference card to try and work this from both directions. Thank you for the interesting thread!


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

Matt_Potter said:


> Out here it is by a clock 1/2 before sun riser and 1/2 hour after - plenty of shooting light at that point.
> 
> Matt



Yep,same here. Many times I have left the stand when I could not see well enough to make an ethical shot and walked home in good light. Not bright sunshine but darn good walking light,out in the open.

That might be why they make those bow sights with lights on them so you can see the pins.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I think the Mods should take the explanation portions of this thread that Gary put together and make it a sticky..


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

I created an "at the arrow" gap gauge from an old bow square that utilizes an attached arrow. I set it up with 1/4" reference marks from the top tangency point of the arrow. My initial impression is that I'm trying to learn to shoot with "invisible sight pins". Is this what the OP is trying to communicate? (or did I miss the point?)


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm lauhing my butt off here! LOL!...wanna know why?....


c'mon...you know you do...





besides...







now that you've come this far?...








you just can't turn back now...



and i'm laughing because...






many...including myself...do this...except...

"they" call it...

"instinctive"


and for all they're worth?...think it is...but they're gapping the arc...not the point. :laugh:


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

JCS - you can do the same thing with a piece of tape on your riser - eventually you will get your gaps ingrained and can take the tape off.

Matt


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

JCS, that's how I see it (only at the animal) - my gaps are nearly the same as yours. The arrow at the feet of the animal (standing deer size) will have me in the 10 ring from 15-25 yards. I like your little gauge, that really makes gapping at the arrow clear.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

At 20yds and in, I shoot instinctively and out beyond that I do the gap thing.......


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

JINKSTER said:


> many...including myself...do this...except...
> 
> "they" call it...
> 
> ...


Exactly! :thumbs_up which is why there is often confusion what Instinctive Aiming really is.

Ray :shade:


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Yes like pins but I realy do give each yardage a name or a size I am a machinst so I measure stuff all day long. I can look at round stock or square and tell what size it is without a tape. this helps me see my gaps so lets say I have a 3/8" gap at 30yds. and a 1/2" at 25yds 
If I have a 27 or 28yd target I just go to 1/2" and tighten my picture to 7/16". If I don't know the yardage but I do know ity may be some where between 25 or 30yds I just get the sight picture and then let my Instinctive ability take over and make the shot. just like Jinkster said. but if I kno the yardage I shoot the exact gap I need to. And the BIG IF IF I don't panic it hits the middle and if I do panic well you guys know that story.
Gary



jcs-bowhunter said:


> I created an "at the arrow" gap gauge from an old bow square that utilizes an attached arrow. I set it up with 1/4" reference marks from the top tangency point of the arrow. My initial impression is that I'm trying to learn to shoot with "invisible sight pins". Is this what the OP is trying to communicate? (or did I miss the point?)


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

Grabs his popcorn.. :happy1:


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## beemer1234 (Dec 2, 2010)

jcs-bowhunter said:


> I created an "at the arrow" gap gauge from an old bow square that utilizes an attached arrow. I set it up with 1/4" reference marks from the top tangency point of the arrow. My initial impression is that I'm trying to learn to shoot with "invisible sight pins". Is this what the OP is trying to communicate? (or did I miss the point?)


A picture is worth a thousand words! When I focus like the picture on the right my shots feel instinctive. When I focus like the picture on the left my shots feel like they are on a conscious level. Either method is gapping and is learned! (in my opinion) I guess after a time both can become second nature, (some call that instinctive) I for one don't say to myself this is a 20 yard shot and I need a half inch gap. I have learned my gaps from shooting unknown distances over my lifetime. When the magic happens, I aim, release effortlessly,and my shot feels Instinctive..... but its probably just learned behavior..... Form is everything................So is a good sight picture..........


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Dang it Gary.... Ok, so out at the range today, retuning my Nilo riser with the PSE 42# limbs to my CXL 150's, I had been playing with ACE's and ACC's but to no avail as they are too weak. SO after getting my center shot down, some walk back tuning done. I figured I'd shoot my point on and its right at 40, then I decide what the heck lets give Gary's Gap system a shot. Now remember I am a pick a point/gap at the target guy. So I go to 35 yards, and I'll be darned the 1/4 inch gap at the arrow tip is right. Go to 30, the 1/2 inch works... pretty close anyway, and all the way to 10 yards.... Intrigued I verify my old system against the gap at the arrow and they are on. Now I will bow to the master... your system is easier to find the gap, and yep it is more accurate. At the longer than 45 yards, since I shoot with one eye closed it doesn't work for me, however with these slower limbs I found that my plunger is dead on at 50... (5 yard difference between these limbs and the HEX 6H's of the same poundage) and work my way out to 80 and have a spot on my riser for each 5 yard gap... using my shelf, rest arm, etc.... I will practice it all next week as our State field is coming up in about 8 days. That is provided my longbow doesn't come in time, or my HEX 6H's from Border. EIther way I will use the system you described for that shoot.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

looks like you will be harder to beat next year. I have found that it is easier to see the gap off larger dia arrows and about that button thing I almost have worn the shine off springy looking at it.

Gary


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

rsarns said:


> Dang it Gary.... Ok, so out at the range today, retuning my Nilo riser with the PSE 42# limbs to my CXL 150's, I had been playing with ACE's and ACC's but to no avail as they are too weak. SO after getting my center shot down, some walk back tuning done. I figured I'd shoot my point on and its right at 40, then I decide what the heck lets give Gary's Gap system a shot. Now remember I am a pick a point/gap at the target guy. So I go to 35 yards, and I'll be darned the 1/4 inch gap at the arrow tip is right. Go to 30, the 1/2 inch works... pretty close anyway, and all the way to 10 yards.... Intrigued I verify my old system against the gap at the arrow and they are on. Now I will bow to the master... your system is easier to find the gap, and yep it is more accurate. At the longer than 45 yards, since I shoot with one eye closed it doesn't work for me, however with these slower limbs I found that my plunger is dead on at 50... (5 yard difference between these limbs and the HEX 6H's of the same poundage) and work my way out to 80 and have a spot on my riser for each 5 yard gap... using my shelf, rest arm, etc.... I will practice it all next week as our State field is coming up in about 8 days. That is provided my longbow doesn't come in time, or my HEX 6H's from Border. EIther way I will use the system you described for that shoot.


You are welcome, Mr. Sarns


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

itbeso said:


> You are welcome, Mr. Sarns


Well since you told me you taught Gary this system then I guess I owe you the thanks also.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

JINKSTER said:


> I'm lauhing my butt off here! LOL!...wanna know why?....
> 
> 
> c'mon...you know you do...
> ...


Absolutely not instinctive when I shoot a gap I can refine it to within 1/32" from let's say from 1/2" to 15/32". I wouldn't call that instinctive but when I shoot unmarked or hunt I just burn the spot and shoot.


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## Bebe (Mar 18, 2006)

Gary thanks for this great post. It's great to get this all down in print. I'm looking forward to pouring over it and garnering some pearls of wisdom. Having you and itbe back to shooting recurve has inspired me to string mine up and see how I can strum it, we will see if it will be melodic or cat scratch fever!


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Bebe said:


> Gary thanks for this great post. It's great to get this all down in print. I'm looking forward to pouring over it and garnering some pearls of wisdom. Having you and itbe back to shooting recurve has inspired me to string mine up and see how I can strum it, we will see if it will be melodic or cat scratch fever!


Bebe, I'm getting calls from a lot of old timers who are dragging their bows out of the rafters.LOL. It's nice that you are joining the fun.


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## mrjeffro (Jul 25, 2007)

I feel kind of stupid. Having read and re-read this thread 100 times I still have no clue what you guys are talking about!! You have tried explaining your method in different ways and with photos( which i appreciate) but it just isnt clicking.

Seeing a target/gap in 2-d instead of 3- d just isn't registering in my brain. I am sure, some day, I will have that "duh" moment, and totally understand, but until then I will sit and read without having a clue hat you guys are talking about


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## DJTJR (Apr 15, 2009)

love this wish i was doing it this way rather than in inches at the target for the past decade


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## Mr cheebo (Nov 1, 2010)

OK, Is my turn to throw in my two cents worth. I have seen several people say, If I were a new shooter this might work. I AM A NEW SHOOTER FOR ABOUT 7 weeks now. This is my first recurve. I didn't know doodly squat about instiintive. gaping. pick a point or any of the others mentioned. I walked out to the back yard today and tried this system. I was afraid the neighbors would here me shouting. WOOO HOOO I have found something that really works. For me its fool proof, very predictable, no guess work, whowie it really works. I shot till dark and did not want to stop shooting. Came inside with a big grin all over my face, couldn't wait to get on here and thank Gary for starting this thread, Ibesto, and whoever taught him. Hope I got all that right.

A HUGE THANKS TO URBAN DEER SLAYER for painting the greatest picture of it all.

Why was it so easy for me? I have been a carpenter for 37 years, I deal with numbers all day, every day, and I am always visualizing sizes, spaces , gaps etc. And it all seems so simplenow that I have been enlightened. I know some of you just cant see it, and that's ok, because there is something for everyone. I cant see how I can better this system without going to sights. Please don't stone me for being honest. Looking forward to getting better and having fun in the process. To be honest I have most likely been doing this already but didn't know it and there was not definite procedure or plan to go by. NOW I HAVE A SHOT SEQUENCE I CAN STICK TO. Thanks to all

Mr Cheebo


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Glad to have helped


Mr cheebo said:


> OK, Is my turn to throw in my two cents worth. I have seen several people say, If I were a new shooter this might work. I AM A NEW SHOOTER FOR ABOUT 7 weeks now. This is my first recurve. I didn't know doodly squat about instiintive. gaping. pick a point or any of the others mentioned. I walked out to the back yard today and tried this system. I was afraid the neighbors would here me shouting. WOOO HOOO I have found something that really works. For me its fool proof, very predictable, no guess work, whowie it really works. I shot till dark and did not want to stop shooting. Came inside with a big grin all over my face, couldn't wait to get on here and thank Gary for starting this thread, Ibesto, and whoever taught him. Hope I got all that right.
> 
> A HUGE THANKS TO URBAN DEER SLAYER for painting the greatest picture of it all.
> 
> ...


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## logan5 (Jan 24, 2009)

Itbeso said in post #23 _"the arrow tip and the arc that it creates when you are aiming are one and the same."_ 
Could you please elaborate on what you mean?


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