# Can we talk stiff side of the arrow shaft?



## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

AT wide many posts, I would recommend reading some:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1537989
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1896049

I do target competition and I fletch my arrows to weak side up....in most I can even recall 90% of cases the arrow start moving nose diving and finding this useful to pre-bend my shaft around the launcher blade resting point....
I like my way doing things but also open to new ideas, I made some posts in our OK subforum, you my start reading here and some others as well  http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2198003


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I mark mine on the spline visually and set it at 12 o'clock. Then I run them through the hooter shooter and tune as needed.


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## nifty (Jun 21, 2009)

In times past when x10s first showed up we had a habit of placing nocks in each end of the shaft and placing them in the bath of water. Weak side would face up, spine down obviously.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

nifty said:


> In times past when x10s first showed up we had a habit of placing nocks in each end of the shaft and placing them in the bath of water. Weak side would face up, spine down obviously.


this can work on aluminum shafts only, but not really on carbon just for reason it is wrapped....
carbon needs to be put on a load and weak side will flex, read some testings in my earlier post


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## fanio (Feb 1, 2011)

Is there actually a weak side /stiff side on modern shafts like Pro Tours, X10s, etc?


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

bigHUN said:


> this can work on aluminum shafts only, but not really on carbon just for reason it is wrapped....
> carbon needs to be put on a load and weak side will flex, read some testings in my earlier post


This is one reason for the question. I know of a couple of methods to find the stiff side and one is floating them. I just have to second guess the accuracy of that method. I had never saw the thread that you posted and hadn't seen that DIY tool. I wonder if anyone has floated carbon shafts, and checked the results with a spine tester.


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## Don Schultz (Jul 5, 2002)

Without regard to construction, I would expect any shaft to have a weak & strong side. If a particular shaft is so perfect in this regard that the flex direction result when tested is random, it will not matter which way you fletch that shaft anyway.

It is likely to not be as pronounced and consistent in wrapped carbon as it is in the welded seam aluminum shafts. 

I built myself a set of very simple blocks with ball bearings for skateboard wheels I bought through EBAY. I use them to spin shafts now. I need to get a larger inside diameter ball bearing to serve as the center bearing point for flex tests. With that, some hand pressure to deflect the shaft will cause it to turn and orient itself. Now, I'm not sure whether the stiff or the weakside will be up, but I'm confident the result will be consistent. 

BTW with a weight and a dial indicator, I can match arrow sets for spine, along with orienting the stiff/weak side. This is a project I need to finish.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

With my hunting setups, I'll fletch the arrows with all 3 vanes having the same color. Then I'll paper tune the bow with one shaft. Once the bow is paper tuned, I'll go through the rest of my arrows shooting through paper. If I have a tear other than a bullet hole, I'll rotate the nock until I get a bullet hole. This helps aid in consistent broadhead flight. With my target setup, I don't always paper tune, so I was wondering about alternative methods, and question floating to some degree. 

I was also curious to see if anyone had experimented with having the stiff side come off the bow in different locations and how it affects arrow flight.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

bigHUN said:


> AT wide many posts, I would recommend reading some:
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1537989
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1896049
> 
> ...


This a why I am not totally sold on these alternative methods of finding the stiff side. This post is from Jerry at Southshore Archery. He is very knowledgeable about arrows, and tests them in about every way imaginable. The thread that I pulled this from was about the flexing procedure that is referenced in the links that you provided.



SouthShoreRat said:


> No this is not the correct way to index shafts!
> 
> Many believe this is correct but it only does one of two things, it finds the natural bend in the arrow shaft or the weakest point on the shaft. Neither have anything to do with how dynamic spine reacts during arrow flight.
> 
> ...


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

finding the spine of a shaft? Spend time doing it if YOU can see the difference in accuracy. 

Fletch one shaft--> at 20-40 yards shoot enough shots to identify where it shoots--> rotate one fletching--> shoot enough to identify where it shoots--> index one more time...shoot again.

if when you rotate the fletching, you are finding that the arrows are hitting in the same place-- stop your spine testing...you're not good enough to see a difference...just a waste of time right now....go focus on more important issues such as grip and follow through.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I start by making sure that my shafts are square at both ends. Then run them through my spine tester & mark the stiff side & start with the mark up. Next, I number the shafts, go to 50 yards and shoot at a paper plate. Pretty soon, any arrows that don't want to play with the group become obvious. I try to figure out why the arrow is different, but often, it's a hidden flaw or maybe I'm just not smart enough to figure out. 

With this proceedure, I don't get many culls, especially with ACC's that I usually shoot for field & outdoors. I seldom even have to twist the nock to a different position. I used to get 1 or 2 culls in each dozen before I started being careful about BOTH ends of the shaft being square. Tip - Factory cut ends are not always square.

Allen


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

Fury90flier said:


> finding the spine of a shaft? Spend time doing it if YOU can see the difference in accuracy.
> 
> Fletch one shaft--> at 20-40 yards shoot enough shots to identify where it shoots--> rotate one fletching--> shoot enough to identify where it shoots--> index one more time...shoot again.
> 
> if when you rotate the fletching, you are finding that the arrows are hitting in the same place-- stop your spine testing...you're not good enough to see a difference...just a waste of time right now....go focus on more important issues such as grip and follow through.


This is what I do for my hunting shafts, except I use paper. Once the bow is paper tuned, I shoot all of my shafts through paper. When I see a little tear, I rotate the nock and recheck. I fletch all vanes the same color, and then mark the cock vane with a marker once I have indexed my nocks.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

aread said:


> I start by making sure that my shafts are square at both ends. Then run them through my spine tester & mark the stiff side & start with the mark up. Next, I number the shafts, go to 50 yards and shoot at a paper plate. Pretty soon, any arrows that don't want to play with the group become obvious. I try to figure out why the arrow is different, but often, it's a hidden flaw or maybe I'm just not smart enough to figure out.
> 
> With this proceedure, I don't get many culls, especially with ACC's that I usually shoot for field & outdoors. I seldom even have to twist the nock to a different position. I used to get 1 or 2 culls in each dozen before I started being careful about BOTH ends of the shaft being square. Tip - Factory cut ends are not always square.
> 
> Allen


I agree, I always square both ends of the arrow shaft with either my G5 ASD, or my Burt Coyote FAST ASD. I think that having both ends square is a very important part of the equation.

I don't have a spine tester, and was just wondering about other ways to find the stiff side. I've though about buying one so many times. Lol


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## batsonbe (Nov 29, 2012)

I've heard you drop your carbon arrows in a large flat bucket of water and the stiff side will rotate up towards the top. If this works it is an easy way to approximate the stiff side


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

the water method doesn't always work...I've seen the same arrow indicate a spine in a different location every time it was spun in the water...all the arrows of a group have done this.


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

Fury90flier said:


> the water method doesn't always work...I've seen the same arrow indicate a spine in a different location every time it was spun in the water...all the arrows of a group have done this.


Another reason that I don't totally trust these other methods. I'm beginning to think that the only reliable methods are spine tester, and the methods that you and I pointed out above. Whether it be done with a bare shaft, fletched shaft, through paper, or done by shooting groups. It can all lead to the same result, and both paper and group tuning have their pros and cons.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> Do most target archers find the stiff side and fletch accordingly?
> 
> Yes, in a manner. I fletch stiff side up.
> 
> ...


...............................


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

WVaBuckHunter said:


> I agree, I always square both ends of the arrow shaft with either my G5 ASD, or my Burt Coyote FAST ASD. I think that having both ends square is a very important part of the equation.
> 
> I don't have a spine tester, and was just wondering about other ways to find the stiff side. I've though about buying one so many times. Lol


A spine tester for finding the stiff side of arrows doesn't have to be one of the expesive commercial units. Mine is a wood shelf. There is a hole for the dial indicator & two cup hooks on the bottom, 28" apart. My weight is a pepsi bottle with enough fish tank gravel to equal 880 grams.

I did drill & tap the shelf for a nylon thumb screw to hold the dial indicator in place. I also took the spring out of the dial indicator. It was a little strong and seemed to influence the results.

Total cost less than $20

This design is from Sam Harper's poorfolkbows.com website.

Allen


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Fury90flier said:


> if when you rotate the fletching, you are finding that the arrows are hitting in the same place-- stop your spine testing...you're not good enough to see a difference...just a waste of time right now....go focus on more important issues such as grip and follow through.


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up 2x


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