# What defines 'Traditional' to you?



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

no sights, no rest, no release, long bow, recurve something along those lines

thats good enough for me


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

Actually.....it has nothing to do with the weapon, to me (the meaning of "traditional").

In MANY circles, I'd be considered "Hi Tech" "Traditional" (and I shoot a wood recurve; no sight; no stab.; no release aid; off the shelf).


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

I prefer the term traditional "style" in making a point about the bows we shoot. Laminated glass is not primative but it can look like it is. I don't know why ANYONE cares unless you are competing in something what it looks like or how it shoots.

Aloha... :beer:


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

no wheels


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## sdpeb1 (Dec 4, 2005)

*trad*

Anything without wheels. No release. Sights and trad do not fit right for me but I imagine that somewhere in the past some indians had a little stick attached to their bow and used it as a site. There is a difference between primitive style archery and trad archery for sure but once you've attached a wheel to the bow your no longer trad.- Steve


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## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

The “traditional” you speak of had a different meaning prior to 1970. So, it’s actually a new term, that attempts to qualify/categorize something for those who have little other means to relate. Clearly, to some, this “new” term is an uncomfortable fit…but it wasn’t asked for, per se, and is apparently here to stay. That said, the archery that existed prior to ’70 was going to “evolve” to some degree anyhow, as far as certain materials go, but most of the design elements/techniques have been tried and trued, long ago.

“Traditional” archery has a very diverse, ingenious, and adaptive past. Call it what you will…it need not be totally out of step with the present…but who knows what everything will be called, or how it will be viewed, in the future. Myself, I have to walk away from people’s trying to define it further; as long as it remains somewhat faithful to its history…it kinda defines itself. Rick


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Center -

I think rick said it better than I could have. For a lot of us who started before the early 1970s, "Trad" or "Traditional" is more of a marketing term than anything else (excluding the "sans wheels" part). Everything needs a "name" or classification, right?

Seems like a lot of people these days use it to describe what THEY believe it is or THEY want it to be. If someone asks me what or how I shoot, I just say I'm shooting a recurve (unless I happen to have a longbow in my hand at the time ...)

Personal peeve: Most of this stuff doesn't bother me until I go to a "match" and get told that the very same bow I hunted (and competed) with in the 70's isn't legal in "trad bowhunter" classes today ... 

Viper1 out.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> _What defines 'Traditional' to you? _


Hunting... Some hunters use firearms, some use some type of bow. 

It's not the weapon of choice that has brought about the near-ruination of an American tradition; it's the idiots behind the weapons and the excessive and sometimes unethical commercialization of the sport.


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## crispy7229 (Jul 10, 2007)

no sights, no release, off the shelf is traditional to me

but primitive is homemade bows, wood arrows, handmade stone points


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I like to think of Trad as a Self Bow shot with no sights and wood arrows, not that I woulld look down on anybody who doesn't shoot this way because I don't even myself. 

I dont call myself a Trad shooter, I call myself a modern Longbow shooter, I use plastic nocks on my arrows, Modern R/D limb design with Carbon laminates and fastflight strings.


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

It's sort of hard to define, since some folks think it has something to do with the equipment, while others (like me) would say it is equipment and shooting/aiming style. I would personally divide archery into 3 areas (excluding hunting for the sake of simplicity):

Target archery, which can be shot with or without wheels, but always with sight, stabilizer, and various other technical aids to improve accuracy.

Field archery/3D, which actually have a lot in common, can be shot with or without wheels, but _usually_ with sight, stabilizer, and various other technical aids to improve accuracy.

Traditional archery, shot without wheels, without sights, without stabs, without technical aids to improve accuracy, in both target and field/3D situations. I would placed primitive archery within this group, and include all systems of aiming except sighted shooting. But a traditional archer could be shooting a FITA style bow barebow, as far as I'm concerned. And I don't care whether he shoots woodies, aluminum or carbon, plastic or feather fletched, with or without a rest.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

I suppose I could not be a member of a "Trad" club if I am seen with this _bowhunting_ rig.

Jensen _"static limb" _ TD recurve
Rubber padded limb pockets 
Modified 4-way adjustable "XI" sight system
Circa 1975 GKF adjustable launcher rest
Pressure button (plunger)
Modified shock/sound stab (lead weight balanced)
Fiber optic pins
Fiber optic pin light
Custom-made endless loop string
Live rubber string silencers


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

:deadhorse


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Deleted: Duplicate post.......


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

Traditional is too broad of a term. In my opinion we are all archers or bowhunters (including the compound folks) who are diverse in our chosen hobby as our individual personalities. There is no right or wrong. Just have fun!


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

That is why I prefer to refer to it as TRADITIONAL STYLE...

Aloha... :beer:


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

I guess I am behind times...I say I bowhunt and use a recurve.


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## sj_lutz (Feb 25, 2005)

Viper1 said:


> Center -
> 
> I think rick said it better than I could have. For a lot of us who started before the early 1970s, "Trad" or "Traditional" is more of a marketing term than anything else (excluding the "sans wheels" part). Everything needs a "name" or classification, right?
> 
> ...


I see you point about marketing, but I don't all the way agree with it. The broader word "archery" has been taken over by the wheel bows. Case in point, our very own Archery Talk. You'll not find a "compound" forum, but you will find a "traditional" forum; the compound part has become implied.

IMHO traditional archery is using a bow without wheels or other means of obtaining a mechanical advantage (IE letoff).


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## gear (Jan 1, 2010)

Extremly basic no sights etc.


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## Pdwight (Nov 26, 2009)

*Im a super newbie*

I think no wheels, no sights of any sort or metals in the bow. Just wood , Glue (any type) and any type of string is fine. Also wooden arrows and real feathers. Absolutely no release of any sort.

Dwight

www.rimfireshooting.com


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## dan in mi (Dec 17, 2009)

No wheels.


Not to start a fight but when people say no metal does that include AL lam mid 50's Bears (please don't shoot one) or Jack Howards bows with a metal rod inside (unseen) the riser?


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## Silent Bear (Nov 27, 2009)

centershot said:


> Where do you draw the line? I was looking at some recurves the other day, machined aluminum handles, fast flight strings, high tech laminates. It felt nice and looked pretty cool too. Next to it was a longbow, while not as flashy the technology was still evident. Reflex/Deflex limbs, fastflight strings, modern laminations............makes me wonder if anything but a bent willow is really traditional. Or maybe Traditional just means without wheels? What's your take?


Traditional to me is making bows that your ancestors had made using all natural materials


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## woodbow (Apr 13, 2003)

My personal definition of Traditional Bowhunting equipment would be best be demonstrated by watching an old Fred Bear Bowhunting film or maybe Ben Pearson, Howard Hill, etc...

I'm from the late 60's period but I think you'll find the definition of Traditional to be very regional. Depending on where you grew up it will be completely different.


woodbow


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Steve -

Ah - that's kinda what I said . I'm still pretty convinced that "traditional archery" was coined by a couple of the bigger companies in the late 70's to sell (read: get rid of) a bunch or bows that just weren't selling (at all) because of the compound craze. Remember, back then the "advantage" of compounds was nowhere near what it is today. We're talking 35% leftoffs and maybe 10-20 % in speed - underline "maybe". 

I personally can't complain - I got a number of high-end recurves at that time for about 1/4 of their previous selling price. A brand new Hoyt PM Super Hunter for $50 - yup, no argument here. They could have called it whatever they liked!!!

Viper1 out.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Traditional - any recurve or longbow, one string, finger release, no sights or elevated rest - everything else is ok - just my version. As long as it looks like a bow and not something too techie.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

What Viper1 said.
I never heard traditional myself until the late 80's. When I started in 1974 there were a lot of folks---I should say most folks, that used sights on their recurves. Aluminum arrows, ect. .I used rests on some of my bows back in the 70's and 80's.
When you say trad....how trad are you talking about? Selfbow, gut string, selfnocked arrows??? Sorry, it does irritate me a little ....I'm not an archery expert but I've shot a lot of bows...some good ones.,,,, but to me, a metal riser recurve cant be beat. That's only my opinion. 
So, _shoot what you like and enjoy it._


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## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

Traditional archery is a broad phrase which encompasses quite a bit.

One thing which it does encompass would be primitive archery, another may be "modern barebow" as defined by Byron Ferguson in his book. Not sure if contemporary Olympic style archery fits either but....

The problem of course is "non-compound" is an awkward construction but that's often what's meant by traditional archery.

William


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## woodbow (Apr 13, 2003)

Curve1.. That's what I mean about it being regional.. I never saw a manufactured sight until after the compounds came out. There were less than a dozen bowhunters in the entire county.

woodbow


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

I am always amused by those that strive to go back to whence I and others once were.

I always envision walking up a trail heading for "tomorrow," and passing those on their way back, heading for "yesteryear." I would like to tell them that it is a very long walk to the land of any true "traditional" as may be defined by those that incessantly use the term..traditional. 

When I hear all of the "trad" talk and know that many of those that talk the talk have never actually walked the walk, I have to wonder what their true aspirations are. Are they meaning just to engage in just a _reenactment_ of early archery and archers?

I have also noticed that it is common that there is a lot of "trad" talk by some, but not too much about bowhunting by many of the same persons. It is also very apparent that some seem to believe that being a "traditionalist" is to be a celebrity, and that if they could get first billing on the marquee they would try to hunt with a stone axe or a spear, or claim they will.

Most serious and strictly "trad" shooters are usually first-class bowhunters. They know the limitations of their equipment and they adapt their hunting prowess to the limitations. These shooters have the patience of Job and are down-in-the dirt, hardcore hunters that develop close-in hunting skills and could hand-stick an arrow if the need would arise. When these types talk about their equipment, they may use the term "traditional" only because it's the catch word of today, but most of them mean "simplicity."


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## traviscain38 (Dec 6, 2007)

I consider it no wheels, no rest, no release, no site. I shoot a Hoyt recure, it is not all wood but I shoot it instictive off the shelf and with wood arrows, now thats traditional.


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## Appalachia (Nov 23, 2009)

Thers a another archery site that if you post some info on a bow and it aint a wood recuve or longbow they'll delete the thread, one guy posted a pic of his new Hoyt Dorado and they deleted it.

I guess it's just how much of a purest you are but to me as long as thers no wheels or sites it's fine, personaly I think the Dorado's are to cool, I'd love to have one and might just break down later and get it, from what I've read ther great shooters.

Come to think of it that site dont cull black widow info and the all made basicly in a machine shop, I guess ther the love machine of the trad world and I wouldnt complain about ownin one but I just aint got $1000 to drop on one.

You sat tomato ( toe- mot-o ) I say mater.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Appalachia -

LOL, I had to laugh when I read your post about that site and BWs. Hummm, wonder how they would feel about this Black Widow - it's from 1968 and yes, it came with a sight and several stabilizers ... Oh, and I now have a matching hunting version, would that qualify? 

Talk about a conflict of interest ... 










Viper1 out.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

One thing is for sure, if hunters dont stick together we wont have to worry about it...because none of us will still have the right to hunt anyway.
I could care less what someone hunts with or shoots. I knew a gentleman in 1975 [ actually he was a game warden], who shot a Ben Pearson recurve with sights on it...he was a darn good shot too! I'd never dreamed of telling him he was _un-trad._As Windwalker pointed out archery has always progressed. Before 1948 there were NO fiberglass bows. When Glenn St. Charles and Howard Hill were hunting in the 30's all they had were self-bows. Move forward 30 some odd years ...Fred Bear is hunting Canadian Grizzly with a fiberglass bow with Fiberglass arrows. Metal riser bows were around in the late 50's. 

I geuss when someone says _Traditional_...it depends on what period of time they're talking about. I've been into archery since 1974 and there's a lot of folks been into archery a lot longer than I , so, there's a lot of folks that just dont know very much about the HISTORY of archery...it's obvious when they start trying to define _Traditional._


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

Curve1 said:


> One thing is for sure, if hunters dont stick together we wont have to worry about it...because none of us will still have the right to hunt anyway.


Yep, I threw away my bows, my guns, and my knives just the other day. I thought, "Hey! If I won't be able to hunt next year, why keep all this stuff around?"


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

Curve1 said:


> One thing is for sure, if hunters dont stick together we wont have to worry about it...because none of us will still have the right to hunt anyway.


Yep, I threw away my bows, my guns, and my knives just the other day. I thought, "Hey! If someone (we all know _WHO_) is gonna take my stuff, why not "_stick it to the man_" and throw the stuff out myself."


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> _I consider it no wheels, no rest, no release, no site. I shoot a Hoyt recure, it is not all wood but I shoot it instictive off the shelf and with wood arrows, now thats traditional._


Uh-uhhh! You will have to do better than that if you want to earn a "Trad" certificate. 

We stickbow shooters had arrow rests, bow sights, non-mechanical releases, and aluminum arrows as early as 1964; and some were available before 1964. It has now reached a point where a date (year) is going to have to be established in order to know what the criteria is to be totally trad.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Man! Windwalker, You just caused me to laugh so hard I cant hardly type this...
How about 1963??

I was 3 years old ...does that count???


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## sinko (Dec 1, 2004)

"Traditional" is fine by me but when one of these few hollier than thow elite snobs nit pick what some one ells is shooting (flipper rest, replacable blade broadheads, aluminum or carbon arrows, aluminum risers, foam and carbon core limbs...) I just want to remind them what did Paul Shafer, or Fred Bear shoot. I've not even read any thing along those lines on this tread but before I do I'll just pitch in my .02 cents.

I just consider myself a "Contemporary Archer" and I'll just use what makes me happy.


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## Pdwight (Nov 26, 2009)

*SInce were vering off*

Anyone ever play the PC video game Wind Walker ? (no I'm not poking fun at you)


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## Wally_Bob (Aug 29, 2005)

First Nations checking in with my Hoyt Trykon


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## Clang! (Sep 29, 2007)

In the broadest terms, no sights, wheels or mechanical rests. Narrowing it down, I'd say it fits into one of three classes
1) Classical/primitive archery - Everything made of wood, horn, sinew, leather, cloth or other turn of the century technology. Think Horace Ford or Ishi.
2) Bowhunter - Nonadjustable stick-on or off the shelf rests, modern materials, no stabs. 
3) Modern Traditional - ILF risers, adjustable arrow rests, short stabs, clickers. About the only thing in common with turn of the century archery is the aiming methods

Just from my poking around it seems that the bowhunters stuck with no sights, off the shelf or stick on elevated rests, and no or short stabs up until the compounds dominated the market. The target crowd seemed to adapt every new technology as soon as they could get it (long stabs, sights, shelf releases, peeps, etc) .


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> Man! Windwalker, You just caused me to laugh so hard I cant hardly type this...How about 1963??


Sorry, Curve, 1963 is ineligible.

1872, Ephraim Morton, USA, is granted a patent for his wood handled bow with steel rod limbs.
1937-First use of bow-sights in archery competition.
1939-James Easton experiments with making arrow shafts out of aluminum, rather than wood.
1941-Larry Hughes uses aluminum arrows to win the American National (archery) Championship.
1946-Easton produces it's first trademarked aluminum arrows, the "24 SRT-X".
1951-Max Hamilton introduces "Plastiflech" vanes to replace feathers.
1951- Fred Bear develops the aluminum alloy core "Grizzily".
1953-Bear Archery develops and sells the first working recurve bows. Previous bows were straight-limbed longbows.
1956-Hoyt Archery develops the first "Pistol grip" bow handle.
1958-Easton develops the "XX75" aluminum arrow shaft.
1961-Hoyt Archery introduces the "Torque stabilizer".
1966-Easton develops the "X7" aluminum arrow shaft.
1966-Use of 6-Gold arrow release permitted in Southwest Sectional Field Archery Championships.
1970- Fred Bear develops magnesium alloy riser TD recurve
1971-Andy Rimo develops the "flipper" rest.
1983-Easton develops the first carbon arrow shaft.

In the late 60's many of us threw away the matchsticks and installed Merrill adjustable bow sights on our bows, and then went to the more adjustable Saunders Hunt-Mate. (I still have 2).

I like "sinko's" term very much: "Contemporary Archer." The term tends to remove many of the prohibitions that has been inaccurately attached to "traditional."


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> Just from my poking around it seems that the bowhunters stuck with no sights, off the shelf or stick on elevated rests, and no or short stabs up until the compounds dominated the market.


Not true.. We early stickbow bowhunters were not into the "traditional" thing. Hell, we didn't even know what being "traditional" was in those days. We were trying every new-fangled gimmick that came out that might improve performance and accuracy. It was common that we also modified and adapted target-related accessories for bowhunting. The goal as I recall was to do and use anything possible that would improve performance and accuracy. When a cut-past-center riser became the thing, we broke out the wood rasps. If someone had said that a pink-colored bow was exceptionally accurate, there would have been a drastic increase in the sales of pink paint.


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## BigAl (Jan 22, 2005)

Windwalker...yes, I came up through that pre-compound era also. Plus, I can't recall even one instance where one archer criticized another for getting the latest and greatest and installing it on his bow, whether a sight, stabilizer or the use of a release when they came on the market. It was simply a matter of whatever you wanted to do and nobody else made it their business.


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

Some great info from Windwalker.

Far too often those seeking to define "Trad" are trying to recreate an era or time that never existed. Sites, rests, metal and many other things not allowed by the definitions put forth as gosphel by the modern trad revisionists have been in use for 100's and thousands of years. Time to put the fedora down and relax.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

WindWalker said:


> Uh-uhhh! You will have to do better than that if you want to earn a "Trad" certificate.
> 
> We stickbow shooters had arrow rests, bow sights, non-mechanical releases, and aluminum arrows as early as 1964; and some were available before 1964. It has now reached a point where a date (year) is going to have to be established in order to know what the criteria is to be totally trad.



That's the problem with trying to make it a historical definition. As soon as someone tries to define "traditional archery" by a calendar year, their parameters start to come apart. By the time laminated fiberglass limbs hit the market (and before Fred Bear’s full working glass-laminated recurve), a few other items were around.

We can start with sight pins (read the caption).










Optical sights were around too. _(Archery, January 1947)_










Then we can talk about mechanical releases, trigger and all. _(The Bowhunter, August, 1950)_ 










Heck, even arrow wraps are nothing new. _(The Bowhunter, March 1951)_


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

trapperDave said:


> no wheels


Same here.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

Definition of Traditional

I feel “traditional” is a broad blanket definition that covers anything that does not have wheels or cams. I’ve discovered over the last year that stickbow folks are a much more diverse group then the compound shooters. On this and other forums everything from primitive self bows to Olympic setups are discussed and debated. It’s very cool for me to see a broad range of topics discussed then endless threads about “how fast is the new XYZ brand bow”, “expandable broadhead pros and cons” or “the evil in High Fence hunting” in the general archery forums. 

Much of the excepted “Tradional” guidelines seem to be about a romanticized vision of wooden bows and cedar arrows being shot by bearded middle aged men dressed in plaid flannel with fuzzy back quivers at game that is either stalked or hunted from ground blinds. I know this is a generalization and I am not in any way being derogative. But this is the “brand” that is often projected. As I mentioned in my earlier post, we are all just archers and/or bowhunters that enjoy our hobby on our own terms. There is no right or wrong.

I consider myself a bowhunter and 3D shooter who happens to be shooting a recurve. Modern technology such as a climbing treestand, GPS, grunt calls and carbon lined clothing are tools that I happily utilize. My setup is a 50# Hoyt Dorado with a Cavalier Super Flyte Rest, wrist strap, 4 arrow Kwickee Combo quiver (removed during hunting and attached to treestand), and wrapped 2016 Aluminum arrows with 5” AAE vanes & 125gr Magnus broadheads. Not exactly a “Traditional” setup, but it’s a mix and match of the tackle I feel I can be most successful with hunting whitetails from a treestand with. My hunting buddies (all compound guys) think I’m insane for going the stickbow route. 

Per Viper1’s earler post I am concerned about 3D shooting this year. In years past I have shot in either the HC or HF IBO Hunter Classes with my exact hunting rigs and was somewhat competitive. I believe that this year I will be in the RU class instead of the Traditional class because I have an elevated rest. I’m not thrilled about having to shoot against guys with 4’ stabilizers and 5 gr/lb arrows even though elevated rests date back well before the 70s. 

“One size fits all” does not apply to archery. The best example that comes to mind is to look at the diversity in the 3River's catalog or website 

Happy New Year!


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

The Harrison Prism Lense Bowsite sounds way cool! 

For the sake of the argument, I say no wheels.


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## Two Blade (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm Not Ted said:


> For the sake of the argument, I say no wheels.


Finally.....................something that we can agree on! :darkbeer:


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

:whoo: :cheers:


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Traditional? I think it's archer focused as opposed to gaget focused.

I was talking to the coach at a local indoor range last week. This was the subject, what is traditional archery?

Bow shops love the wheel bows because they will sell a rest on week one and an upgrade a week later. Same thing with sights. It's a gaget focused business, the better the gaget the better it shoots. Traditional has it's gagets but for the most part improvement in hitting center target comes only with pratice.


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## dan in mi (Dec 17, 2009)

Wasn't the Merrill "Heart Shot" the hunting sight with four increasingly smaller rings that once adjusted took range estimation out of the equation? If I remember correctly you adjusted each ring to so that it appeared the size of the ring was from a deer's back to belly. The thought being as the deer got closer you used a larger ring giving you a range finder/sight combination.

I always thought it was cool but never bought one. This would be in the mid 70's when recurves still ruled locally.


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## Clang! (Sep 29, 2007)

dan in mi said:


> Wasn't the Merrill "Heart Shot" the hunting sight with four increasingly smaller rings that once adjusted took range estimation out of the equation? ... This would be in the mid 70's when recurves still ruled locally.


I think the merrill heart shot had four fixed pins (far right below), but no rings










I remember the rings you're talking about. They were available in the late 80's/early 90's when I started shooting.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Great find, JW.

If I had to define a "Trad" shooter, it would be that the shooter uses a "conventional" bow (do like that term), regardless what accessories are on the bow. As long as the bow has a single string that is attached to the bow by loops, and the draw and hold of the bow remains unaided by cams and let-off, in my opinion the bow remains a conventional bow.

Now; if a club, group, association, competition...whomever, prohibits certain accessories or shooting styles (gap, stringwalking...) so be it. None of those restrictions impact me when I bowhunt.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

WindWalker said:


> Great find, JW.
> 
> If I had to define a "Trad" shooter, it would be that the shooter uses a "conventional" bow (do like that term), regardless what accessories are on the bow. As long as the bow has a single string that is attached to the bow by loops, and the draw and hold of the bow remains unaided by cams and let-off, in my opinion the bow remains a conventional bow.
> 
> Now; if a club, group, association, competition...whomever, prohibits certain accessories or shooting styles (gap, stringwalking...) so be it. None of those restrictions impact me when I bowhunt.


If you have a conventional, there must be an unconventional. The problem is that the current "convention" is a compound bow. If you walk into most any archery shop, it's wall-to-wall compounds, conventional bows, with a few recurves/longbows in the back corner. This would indicate that the bows in the back corner are "unconventional", certainly they ain't, so we use a less harsh term for them, Traditional, but then that means compounds are non-Traditional, and the circular search for proper nomenclature continues.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> If you have a conventional, there must be an unconventional. The problem is that the current "convention" is a compound bow. If you walk into most any archery shop, it's wall-to-wall compounds, conventional bows, with a few recurves/longbows in the back corner.


Damn it, San! Just when I thought we might have something going as a replacment term for "traditional," you had to come along and remind everyone of today's required PC interpretation/meaning of certain terms.

I still recall when a bunch of archers used to get together and have a _gay _time, or to _treat _someone meant you bought them a hamburger or admistered care, and to _chill_ was what you did with soda and beer.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

sawtoothscream said:


> no sights, no rest, no release, long bow, recurve something along those lines
> 
> thats good enough for me


+1...

To me, it's more about how you shoot it. The wheels are kind of a deal breaker, if only for blatant aesthetic reasons


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## dax51 (Jan 12, 2009)

Basic ... To me ...
no sights, no rest, no release, long bow, recurve, Reflex/Deflex something along those lines.

I think outside those basics "Traditional" is a degree that is ever changing with the individual. First we start with a bow ... then we want to shoot our OWN Bow, "one we made". Then we move to arrows we made, then to the quiver we made, then the broadheads we made, the knife we made, and so on...


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## dan in mi (Dec 17, 2009)

Partial old timers moment...


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

dax51 said:


> Basic ... To me ...
> no sights, no rest, no release, long bow, recurve, Reflex/Deflex something along those lines.
> 
> I think outside those basics "Traditional" is a degree that is ever changing with the individual. First we start with a bow ... then we want to shoot our OWN Bow, "one we made". Then we move to arrows we made, then to the quiver we made, then the broadheads we made, the knife we made, and so on...


Those "basics" where never used to describe archery until the movement started to recreate a time that has never existed. I'm not sure how moving to making a quiver has anything to do with being more traditional.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Yep! The "Range-Matic" was used by many recurve shooters. 

I used a range-finding sight on 2 of my main recurves, but they were a vertical rectangle sight with a Plexiglas window that had horizontal colored lines with centered colored dots. You placed the deer from its belly to its back between the appropriate lines and the corresponding marked range was the estimated distance of the deer. The colored dot between the lines is the sight you use.

I forget who manufactured the range-finding sight. Still have one somewhere in my junk.


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## High Plains (Feb 29, 2008)

Traditional is a label that became a stereotype by the uninformed.


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## Belicoso (Aug 22, 2006)

Never liked the word Traditional myself.It´s always like modern archery versus traditional and beeing traditional was/is affected by many unknown with romance, close distance, not hitting the target past 10 yards, inefficient equipment and so on.
Just bows recurves and longbows(regardless of the design materials used into them) and compounds (which I wouldn´t consider as a bow rather than a machine)


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## Belicoso (Aug 22, 2006)

.........and by the way the personal ethics of each individual regardless of his equipment is what counts in my book........


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Rather than us argue about what "traditional" means, go show a non-archer a video of the FITA World Cup, then a Robin Hood or Cowboy-&-Indian Western. Then ask him or her what is traditional.

Often, what we feel is traditional has a lot to do with sentimentality. Just look at some of those Hallmark Christmas cards you got this year. They evoke a sense of a "traditional" Christmas that was NEVER celebrated that way! A hundred years ago, nobody in SW PA put up an evergreen Christmas tree. My great-grandma told me they used to cut a branch from an apple tree, put it in a vase, wrap cotton around it to look like snow, then decorate it with dried apples and nuts.

The media really influence what we think is traditional. Hence, a non-archer who wants to shoot bow and arrow will come to our club, see an Olympic set-up, and ask where the "real" bows are.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

I dont think some folks will ever get it.
I bet an American Indian in 1845 would glady swap his self-bow for a Bear Grizzly if he had the oppurtunity. Through history the goal was to be as effeciant as possible. As stated by myself and others, there were a lot of _un-trad _folks around in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.
My dad is 81 years old, we were shooting some Friday...he shoots point-aim method , with 3 fingers under.......he out shoots me! I forgot, he shoots carbon, and aluminum. I'm not going to tell him he's _not_ traditional.
Kinda like muzzleloaders [flint-lock], they're _fun_ to shoot, but if I want effeciency...I grab a bolt-action 243 or 708.


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## jouso (Jan 4, 2010)

Curve1 said:


> Kinda like muzzleloaders [flint-lock], they're _fun_ to shoot, but if I want effeciency...I grab a bolt-action 243 or 708.


That's exactly the point. You take on traditional (for lack of a better word) because it's fun, because it's challenging and because you like the feeling.

If precission and efficiency is what you want, go compound or, much better, get a good gun.

I don't like the 'traditional' label at all. If you're hunting or shoot in your backyard or local club you shoot whatever you feel like, be it a yew self bow with wooden arrows and flint points, a modern recurve or longbow without sights or go the whole compound/release aid/sights combo or whatever combination you feel like trying.

On competitions you have to draw lines and divisions somewhere, and serious competitors will generally want to shoot whatever equipment gives them an edge.... which means that here you have to choose whatever class you feel more comfortable shooting in.

Just my 0,02€


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Since I compete in NFAA I go with those defintions:

H. Traditional:

This style of shooting is for those who wish to compete with the Recurve or Longbow.

No device of any kind, including arrow rest, that can be used for sighting will be used or attached to the archer's equipment.

There shall be no device, mechanical or otherwise, in the sight window except the arrow rest, arrow plate or plunger button.

No part of the rest or arrow plate may extend more than 1/4 inch above the arrow.

No clickers, drawchecks or levels will be allowed. No laminations, marks or blemishes on the face of the bow or in the sight window will be legal.

The string may be of any color but must have a single color center serving. One single nocking point is permitted. One or two nock locators may be used. Brush buttons and string silencers, properly placed, may be used. Any other marks or string attachments will be illegal.

One anchor point only is permitted.

The archer shall touch the arrow when nocked and drawing the arrow with the index finger against the nock. Finger position may not be changed during competition. In the case of physical disability of the arms or hands, a chew strap may be used in place of fingers.

Gloves, tabs or fingers shall be the only legal releases. In the case of physical disability of the arms or hands, a chew strap may be used in place of fingers.

All arrows shall be identical in length, weight, diameter and fletching with allowances for wear and tear.

No stabilizer or counter balance may be used.

No written memorandum will be allowed.

Bow slings are permissible.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

My point is ...traditional opens up a whole spectrum.
Most folks I knew that shot recurves used sights [back in the 70's]. I understand having to draw a line in tournaments. I've been to some trad shoots that would not let me use aluminum arrows ,or would not let my dad shoot 3-under.
Granted, they have a right to make up watever rules they like....but, that's the reason I dont compete in them...I'l usually shoot for fun----_if they let me._
So, my question is *still*....how trad are we talking about???? 
Let's say in 1957 some of the new-fangled equipment would not be allowed [ _by new fangled I mean Fiberglass laminated bows, aluminum arrows_] 
Someone in 1957 says " _those bows aint traditional, you got to shoot a selfbow, with homemade heads, and self-nocked arrows_"
Well, that might sound silly but the equipment I mentioned was fairly new in 1957...it wasn't what Howard Hill, Fred Bear, Glenn St. Charles, were using in the 30's. Anyway, I geuss I'm just an untrad guy.:wink:


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## Pdwight (Nov 26, 2009)

Break it up like auto racing , or firearms category's....you may not be pleased with the guide lines but they are there to keep things in their category.

Dwight

www.rimfireshooting.com


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## tradbox (Jan 5, 2010)

an old standard, followed by time honored and passed down through generations.

Really, the definition does not pertain to the actual structure of current archery. Different rules, different styles, different bows. we could all discuss what it means to us individually, but really, it all comes down to flinging arrows powered by our creative intellect. 

I usually like to assume traditional archery is a bow, some arrows, some good friends and a whole lot of fun. one could say even a compound is traditional, if everyone was shooting compounds, as they follow the traditions of people before them... so, it's what ever you make it to be for yourself, as there is no real definition except those given by different groups based on beliefs, not facts.
I still like to think traditional archery is the use of archery, it's been around since I think, the cave man. we have just recently developed more efficient methods of this tradition, Compounds, hybrid bows..etc, it's all still archery.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Well said Tradbox.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Thats a great description Tradbox. I love the romance and gut feeling that some have about archery. But, we had to go to the Traditional Archery forum on Archerytalk to talk with other 'traditional' archers. Without wheels (mechanical letoff) is about the best definition I can come up with. Other than that, there's hardly enough Traditional shooters to get up a conversation let alone split up into Primitive, Recurve, Longbow etc. groups. As long as your having fun with it, who cares.


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## innate123 (Dec 4, 2006)

High Plains said:


> Traditional is a label that became a stereotype by the uninformed.


I was going to post without reading through this thread. I'm glad I didn't and as a newb to "traditional" hunting I learned a lot. I think High Plains nailed it on the head. 

Windwalker also made a great comment stating that it is "simplicity." 

So, being a newb looking slightly from the outside in. What drew me to "traditional" hunting and as some of you know, I WAS going to shoot release is:

Once I become proficient with the recurve with NO sight, NO rest, NO release, NO mechanical head - I can enter the woods in a very SIMPLE manner not worrying about bumping/breaking a sight pin, forgetting my release (done way too many times), worrying about my peep tube breaking, trying to get my rangefinder out to see how far the deer is from me, or worrying about my $13 rage bh opening or not. 

As Windwalker stated, it is the SIMPLICITY of all of it that is amazing. That being said, after reading this thread - TRADITIONAL HUNTING IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFINE. At best, one could prob. define some sort of PRIMITIVE hunting and have a better chance at it. 

t


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

I think it would be interesting to post this in the General Archery forum to see what their perspective is of it...


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## Altiman94 (Jun 11, 2007)

The problem is that archery went away from a sport and hobby and became a "fad." Then all of a sudden everyone had the latest and greatest technology and began to critisize one another. After a while, a few returned to the roots of archery and began to critisize others for using sighting aids on their traditional bows. In all actuality, i saw shoot what you like and what makes you a better archer. 

Most of my friends that have gotten into archery I tell them to stay away from this site. Certain sections of the site will make you think that you need the best equipment to be a better hunter, which of course is false. Get what you like, hunt when you can, and forget about the rest.

Archery as a commercialized sport is just a fad. Having the mentality that you can only shoot a 170" deer and critisizing others for not, is rediculous. I see no harm in shooting any animal that is legal where you hunt. Enjoy the hunt and the meat after the kill! We are our own worst enemies.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Altiman94 said:


> The problem is that archery went away from a sport and hobby and became a "fad." Then all of a sudden everyone had the latest and greatest technology and began to critisize one another. After a while, a few returned to the roots of archery and began to critisize others for using sighting aids on their traditional bows. In all actuality, i saw* shoot what you like and what makes you a better archer. *
> Most of my friends that have gotten into archery I tell them to stay away from this site. Certain sections of the site will make you think that you need the best equipment to be a better hunter, which of course is false. *Get what you like, hunt when you can, and forget about the rest.*
> Archery as a commercialized sport is just a fad. Having the mentality that you can only shoot a 170" deer and critisizing others for not, is rediculous. * I see no harm in shooting any animal that is legal where you hunt.* Enjoy the hunt and the meat after the kill! We are our own worst enemies.




Exactly.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Personally, I liked the simplicity and romance- so I leaned towards the longbow when I first began. But as I progressed, it just became an economic thing- the romance being replaced by reality and practicality. I couldn't afford to keep buying bows, even though I definately wanted them! Likewise, I wanted to keep increasing weight but couldn't do it if I had to shell out $300 every time I wanted a stronger one. Lasrly, I couldn't afford all the arrows and what not to go _with_ those different bows, meaning I started using some pretty poor excuses for arrows.

So I started building! 

Now if I spend some money on arrows, it still doesn't even come _close_ to how much I'd spend if I'd be buying bows everytime I make a new one. And now I'm starting to get pretty good at it too:lol:!


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## mesquite (Dec 28, 2009)

centershot said:


> Where do you draw the line? I was looking at some recurves the other day, machined aluminum handles, fast flight strings, high tech laminates. It felt nice and looked pretty cool too. Next to it was a longbow, while not as flashy the technology was still evident. Reflex/Deflex limbs, fastflight strings, modern laminations............makes me wonder if anything but a bent willow is really traditional. Or maybe Traditional just means without wheels? What's your take?


The word is overrated I think, but in my opinion it just means shooting a simple bow like a recurve, flatbow, or longbow without sites. I think things like simple rests, or using carbon or aluminum arrows is fine. I think traditional just means that you prefer a more simple form of archery.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

IMO....the greatest bowhunter (and a damned fine bowyer) who ever lived was a "Traditional" bowhunter.

But, sadly, he'd be disqualified (by many) from the "fraternity", because he routinely utilized vanes and an elevated rest.

Someone shoulda told him the rest booted him from "the club"!


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## mesquite (Dec 28, 2009)

Sorry to sound ignorant but who is that man in the pictures?


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

JV NC, you just made the point I was trying to make.....in a nut-shell.


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## Pdwight (Nov 26, 2009)

Not that I am against it in any way but the term was "Traditional Archery".....not Traditional Hunting......not to put too fine a point on it. A good hunter can use what they have on hand to make the kill.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

Not to put a fine-toothed comb on it.....but would you say a traditional archer made those kills?


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Hey PD , it's gonna get below 20 degrees tonight here around Mobile......I bet you folks up there are gonna really have a _freeze._
I love north Alabama though...that's my dream, to move to North Alabama. I love it up there.
God bless.


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

mesquite said:


> Sorry to sound ignorant but who is that man in the pictures?


Would like to know this too... He looks kinda familiar though. Is it you???


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

I was reading through all these posts and it strikes me as funny. When I started shooting stickbows 7-8 years ago I didn't know anybody to teach me. I started by going to all the used book stores to find any old books on shooting. Most of the stuff I found was dated to the pre-compound era. The equipment shown included wood and metal bows, rests, sights, stabs, etc. The only classes were sighted and non-sighted. A while later I picked up some of the newer "traditional" books that clearly specified that those same things were not "traditional". Who's right?

Personally, I don't see the point in making a bunch of distinctions. Unless you plan on shooting in competition any bow without wheels, with any accessories is traditional to me. If you plan to compete than it's just a matter of conforming to their definition of traditional. Pretty simple.


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

FYI, I just did a search on "what defines traditional", and there's 418 pages or results...


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

mesquite said:


> Sorry to sound ignorant but who is that man in the pictures?


Paul Schafer - lived large and died far too early.


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## sinko (Dec 1, 2004)

Traditional like beauty is in the mind of the beholder. It dosn't stop or start with "no wheels" but rather it's the romance that gose along with feathers, broadhead files, flemish strings, and or is it simply enjoying ourselve just for the sake of having a great time with a stick and string. Perhaps it's having the latest and greatest nonwheel bow just to get a little extra cast. After all didn't they look for performance back in the good ol'days. 
I love our sport.


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

> After all didn't they look for performance back in the good ol'days.


The strive for better has been around a lot longer then any of us.
We play at it - in the "good ol'days", your equipment meant survival for either hunting or defense.
Better performance meant far more to them then to the modern day romantic recreationists.


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## Pdwight (Nov 26, 2009)

*Really Cold*



Curve1 said:


> Hey PD , it's gonna get below 20 degrees tonight here around Mobile......I bet you folks up there are gonna really have a _freeze._
> I love north Alabama though...that's my dream, to move to North Alabama. I love it up there.
> God bless.


I just got through re covering the two outside faucets, they come straight out of the bricks on the outside.....I have "Y"s on both and found ice behind them...I hope I don't have a problem. Yes it is really supposed to be around 12 here tonight....far to cold for me. I am recovering from H1N1 and have missed far too much work. Thanks for the compliments on the land here, I grew up here and think is an ideal place to live ...a bit of everything...Hills and flat land....mostly hills though. I am in the North West corner about 30 min from TN and MS.


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## bbeasley (Sep 26, 2009)

I'll tell you what Traditional is..My Grandfather hunted with a recurve, My Father hunted with a recurve, Now I do, Thats tradition!..Yes equipment has improved over the years but It's still good old fashioned instinctive finger-shooting the way Grandpa done it!.....Here's a question, If your splitting firewood, Does it matter if the axe handle is wood or fiberglass?


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## Pdwight (Nov 26, 2009)

if your trying to split sweetgum its bad either way :wink:

I totally agree, No rollers or cables, no releases , no sights.


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## Clang! (Sep 29, 2007)

kegan said:


> Personally, I liked the simplicity and romance


I think that's what draws people into the "traditional" archer community. 

Once scores and performance enter the equation the whole equation changes. For example; I love the classic longbow/flatbow and wood arrow combination, and I have great respect for anybody that can shoot one decently. With that being said, an ILF bow with a plunger/flipper rest and a stabilizer is going to shoot higher scores in the hands of the same archer. Add a sight and the difference is going to be come more pronounced.

I haven't decided which direction I'm going. The long FITA bows draw and shot smoother (almost 30" draw) than any "conventional traditional" bows I've shot. But they're kinda ugly and more complicated.


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## buckknife (Mar 15, 2008)

No wheels and wood arrows.


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## Pdwight (Nov 26, 2009)

I will admit that using an all glass bow as a kid int he early 60s I put a piece of tape on the back of my rubber handled yellow fiberglass bow....I then drew lines across to use as reference points, and it helped. I nailed quite a few rabbits with that 25 pound bow....never knew what happened to it. Around the age of 12 I got a Bear Bearcat for Christmas and I never looked back. I still have the Bearcat.


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

As has been noted several times already, a modern set-up will get you higher scores and/or more kills on a hunt that a primitive set up, which is *not* to say that a skilled archer cannot achieve excellent results with a primitive set-up, just that it takes more skill.

"Traditional" archery is the branch of the sport that is growing the fastest over here in Europe, primarily due to 3D shooting. Hunting is very restricted over here, and not many people can afford to invest the time and money necessary to get a license. The closest most can get to the thrill and adventure is 3D archery, and it seems that they want as much challenge and adventure as they can get, which means shooting a glass lam longbow or recurve with woodies. Bow building courses aren't hard to find either. And all kinds of "trad" gurus offer archery courses, 90% of which preach the "neo-trad" gospel of crouch and snap shoot, uh, of course I mean instinctive shooting.:angel:

There is one fellow, though, named Dietmar Vorderegger, who teaches "trad" archery courses, for whom I have a great deal of respect. He won the World Bow Hunter Championships in the longbow division at Yankton last year. And he is one of the few who teach that instinctive style is a method of aiming. But he also teaches POA and gap shooting, finger walking and lots of other variations. His motto is, shoot whichever way you prefer, if it allows you to get the results you want, and if it is allowed by the rules of the shoot you are attending. He is also the only "trad" guru who readily admits that any other method of aiming will get better results than instinctive.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

When someone tells me they are a traditional archer two things come to mind. First that traditional archery is a romantic attraction to a period of time that never existed and second, that traditional archery is a steadfast resistance to change. That is what traditional means to me and the reason I say I am a recurve shooter not a traditional archer. It amazes me how people continue to believe the things that they do. Example, how many times have you read on forums that if you shoot a "light" arrow out of a recurve the bow or the arrow will blow up? BS! Maybe back in the day with wood arrows this would happen, but with modern materials like carbon(unless it was cracked) or aluminum this does not happen. I could take a XYZ brand carbon in .XXX spine weighing 320 grains shoot it out of a 60# compound and not damage the bow or arrow. Why do they think that the same arrow out of a 60# recurve will blow up the bow or arrow? Don't they realize that the compound exerts much more force on the arrow and its own limbs than the recurve does???? Personally I could careless what Mr Bear or Mr Hill shot or how they shot it. I don't want to be a clone of them I want to be me and make my own history.


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## innate123 (Dec 4, 2006)

Bubba Dean said:


> Personally I could careless what Mr Bear or Mr Hill shot or how they shot it. I don't want to be a clone of them I want to be me and make my own history.


Good line. That would make life a lot easier on many bowhunter's these days. 

t


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Innate thank you. I think more of us need to be individuals in what we do not sheep that just follow.


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## superbuckeye (Dec 31, 2007)

well to me, normally, traditonal is longbow, recurve, things of that nature... unless I'm dealing with some Elitist who thinks he is better for shooting that way compared to my compound... then traditional becomes a bow you made yourself, strings that YOU made from sinew, a wood arrow YOU cut, and a rock that YOU chipped into an arrowhead. Can you tell I very much dislike Elitists?


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## mesquite (Dec 28, 2009)

Bubba Dean said:


> When someone tells me they are a traditional archer two things come to mind. First that traditional archery is a romantic attraction to a period of time that never existed and second, that traditional archery is a steadfast resistance to change. That is what traditional means to me and the reason I say I am a recurve shooter not a traditional archer. It amazes me how people continue to believe the things that they do. Example, how many times have you read on forums that if you shoot a "light" arrow out of a recurve the bow or the arrow will blow up? BS! Maybe back in the day with wood arrows this would happen, but with modern materials like carbon(unless it was cracked) or aluminum this does not happen. I could take a XYZ brand carbon in .XXX spine weighing 320 grains shoot it out of a 60# compound and not damage the bow or arrow. Why do they think that the same arrow out of a 60# recurve will blow up the bow or arrow? Don't they realize that the compound exerts much more force on the arrow and its own limbs than the recurve does???? Personally I could careless what Mr Bear or Mr Hill shot or how they shot it. I don't want to be a clone of them I want to be me and make my own history.


I would argue that archery in itself is a steadfast resistance to change, otherwise we would all use guns only.

Yes, there are some people that are annoying when they talk about traditional archery, but many people just like the simplicity of it and that is all.


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## hockeyref (Jun 2, 2006)

Clang! said:


> I think the merrill heart shot had four fixed pins (far right below), but no rings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I have one of these with the ring sitting in my cave upstairs.... It was mounted to an improvised side plate to mount on the side instead of front or back of the bow rather than drill through the glass..


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## hockeyref (Jun 2, 2006)

*I don't think or type fast enough to edit my post*

As for "what is traditional"? ummmm, I would say for the sake of a definition based on why I went back there before it became a fad - "simplicity".... As in sans wheels and gadgets. A bit over 20 years ago I sold off all but two compounds and went "BACK" to a recurve simply because I got sick of taking a toolbox into the woods with me. I currently have a couple compounds, an olympic recurve, laminated recurves and longbows, solid glass recurves and longbows, and self bows. For arrows I have footed woodies, solid woodies, aluminum, carbon, fiberglass, and A\C with all sorts of sizes and shapes of feathers and vanes.... Like kegan, I love to make my own stuff. I recognize the advantages and limitations of the tackle I have and relish the differences....

I guess you could call me "an archer" because no matter what launches it I love to watch the grace of an arrow arching towards it's target.


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## curverbowruss (Feb 23, 2003)

A buddy of mine, and I were talking about the so called "traditional" mentality the other day. People will define it many different ways. For me I could care less about definitions. I shoot my compound, recurve the way I like it. My recurve has an elevated rest, and sight pins. Some say that this is abolutely a disgrace to do this. It works for me, and I like it. As I told my buddy---The reason folks began to use elevated rests, and sights was the fact it enabled them to be more accurate, and be able to shoot in a more consistent manor---that isn't a bad thing the last time I checked. To each there own. As I say--shoot what you like, and like what you shoot. Its all about what works on an individual basis. The thought of ME critisizing a guy about his choices in archery equipment isn't going to happen. If a guy takes his custom made bow--puts a rest, sights etc. on it, and he likes it, shoots well with it, and has fun----who am I to say anything bad about his choices--it works for him. Everyone has their own limitations, ideas, choices etc.. I like how one guy put it----Its not traditional archery---its contemporary archery.


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## Sharpstyk (Jan 27, 2009)

The same way the American Heritage Dictionary defines 'Bow': "A weapon used to shoot arrows, consisting of a curved stave, strung taut from end to end." And the American Heritage Dictionary defines a 'stave' as "a stick used as a weapon".


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

curverbowruss said:


> A buddy of mine, and I were talking about the so called "traditional" mentality the other day. People will define it many different ways. For me I could care less about definitions. I shoot my compound, recurve the way I like it. My recurve has an elevated rest, and sight pins. Some say that this is abolutely a disgrace to do this. It works for me, and I like it. As I told my buddy---The reason folks began to use elevated rests, and sights was the fact it enabled them to be more accurate, and be able to shoot in a more consistent manor---that isn't a bad thing the last time I checked. To each there own. As I say--shoot what you like, and like what you shoot. Its all about what works on an individual basis. The thought of ME critisizing a guy about his choices in archery equipment isn't going to happen. If a guy takes his custom made bow--puts a rest, sights etc. on it, and he likes it, shoots well with it, and has fun----who am I to say anything bad about his choices--it works for him. Everyone has their own limitations, ideas, choices etc.. I like how one guy put it----Its not traditional archery---its contemporary archery.



Ditto to that! My thaughts exactly.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Gents - 

A gentleman posted this on another site.










Please read the story. Note the bowsight and Olympic style anchor. Guess old Fred wasn't "trad". 

Viper1 out.


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## brooksbow (Jan 8, 2010)

traditional is no wheels however primative is nothing but wood and sinew


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks. First thing I noted was the under chin anchor. I guess he figured quickly how to fully utilize a sight bar :smile:


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Sanford - 

Fred won 3 State titles in the 1930s. Kinda makes you wonder if that was with a sight or barebow (I don't know either). 

Oh yeah, he did recommend that new shooters start with a sight, IIRC. 

Regarding the under the chin anchor, the old pics of Pope showed a similar anchor, he couldn't have been "gapping" for those 100 yd shots, could he??? 

That's not meant as a put down in anyway, just makes you think about what we thought we knew and how "traditional" has become what some of us want it to be rather than what is was.

Viper1 out.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Viper1 said:


> Sanford -
> 
> Fred won 3 State titles in the 1930s.
> 
> Viper1 out.


Yes he did, which is three more than some of the people I've heard accuse Mr. Bear of being a lousy archer.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Sanford said:


> Thanks. First thing I noted was the under chin anchor. I guess he figured quickly how to fully utilize a sight bar :smile:


Anchoring under the chin was, and still is, quite common for target shooting, especially long range. As a side note, Michigan's first archery deer season wasn't until 1935. At the time of that photo, archery was primarily a target sport.

It's also interesting to note the differences between Mr. Bear's equipment and form in that photo and those of him after taking up bowhunting. Why the change? I honestly don't know, but whatever his reasons, it certainly worked well for him.


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