# What is a "Smooth" draw to YOU??



## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

I would agree with you Jim, and your description is exactly what my Ross CR337 feels like. 

Contrast that with my 05 Constitution, which pulls long and smoothly, but up a rapidly increasing hill towards the peak of the cam, it then snaps into the valley and onto a rock hard back wall. When you are used to it, drawing becomes second nature, but it is very hard work in comparison to the Ross and easy to lose the arrow off the rest if you are not prepared for the valley.


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## huntsome (Sep 5, 2007)

Yep I too, would agree with you Harperman.
I'm shooting a BT commander and I consider this a smooth drawing bow out to my 29"DL. Solid from the start, builds up evenly then drops nicely into the let off to the stops. Some don't call it smooth, but I guess this is what you have come from I'm guessing.

I was shooting a Darton with CPS cams and it had quite a rugged draw cycle. 

Cheers:darkbeer:
Rich


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

A smooth draw to me is a SLOW increase of pounds on the draw curve....
It usually is a "slower" bow as most people will call it. 
A Slow, Gradual slop and no bumps or drop offs on the draw curve, unlike the rapid ramp up of the "speed" bows is what I consider a "Smooth" bow. 

I have owned all three of the bows below and for me the Cardiac was the easiest to draw @ 70lbs. (and I love that lil "hilltop" draw curve) but, all three in my book are smooth shooters. :darkbeer:


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*Smooth you say?*

Oneida draw curve. I cannot describe it and do it justice. If I tried to I would say "linear". No suprises, no nervous backwall. "Fluid" or "Even" would be other ways to describe it. AMO on an AF is about 240, so I would'nt call it slow either. :darkbeer:

BW


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

IBBW said:


> Oneida draw curve. I cannot describe it and do it justice. If I tried to I would say "linear". No suprises, no nervous backwall. "Fluid" or "Even" would be other ways to describe it. AMO on an AF is about 240, so I would'nt call it slow either. :darkbeer:
> 
> BW


I have heard the same thing from other shooters; seems the Oneida and Monster bows do have an appealing draw to many......might have to try to get my hands on one in the future. :tongue:


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

IBBW said:


> Oneida draw curve. I cannot describe it and do it justice. If I tried to I would say "linear". No suprises, no nervous backwall. "Fluid" or "Even" would be other ways to describe it. AMO on an AF is about 240, so I would'nt call it slow either. :darkbeer:
> 
> BW


Its the way an Oneida comes up to peak draw and goes into the valley. In comparison most other bows feel as if you are trying to pull back a brick wall on the first small portion of the draw, and the way the draw curve does not nose dive into the valley is like no other bow except Monster. The Ovation is good but it only gets in to the same ball park. The roller guide helps it get rid of that stickyness that you get with an ordinary calbe guide.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

No offense to anyone but the smoothest finger bow is...a recurve! (smile)

Dave


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

I would agree with Jerrytee. I is not hard to start the draw cycle, smooth to the valley, doesn't drop hard and leaves room to settle. Now thats smooth! I have played with alot of cams and if they have bumps, as Jim put it, then I don't use the. The settling room could be a function of getting the draw lenght right, but I think draw stops have alot to do with this. I just Converted a Vectric XL from the Vector cam over to a Z3. Before it seem that the vector cam was smooth but it felt like I was pulling higher poundage and holding more than with the Z3 cam. But I had been comparing both setup with a scale. In fact the Hoyt C2 is close to the Z3. They just feel like a round wheel bow. I have drawn other brands and have felt this same smoothness but didn't pick them because of speed or finish. Also, have ever wondered when looking at a draw curve chart, how a bow starts out at "0" pounds and "0" draw lenght? Please explain to how that happens or am I missing the picture.


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

I have to agree that Oneida's and Monster Bows are super smooth. Though I have yet to received the pleasure of shooting a Monster, I have shot my 15 year old Aeroforce many, many times. It seems to get smoother everytime I draw it. Plus I've removed the draw stops which make it even more comfortable for me.


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## Mikie Day (Oct 21, 2002)

Dave T said:


> No offense to anyone but the smoothest finger bow is...a recurve! (smile)
> 
> Dave


the monster bow can be set up to draw like a recurve...no valley, no letoff...it is like a camelon of the archery world...:wink:


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## Archer100 (Aug 6, 2008)

mdewitt71 said:


> A smooth draw to me is a SLOW increase of pounds on the draw curve....
> It usually is a "slower" bow as most people will call it.
> A Slow, Gradual slop and no bumps or drop offs on the draw curve, unlike the rapid ramp up of the "speed" bows is what I consider a "Smooth" bow.
> 
> I have owned all three of the bows below and for me the Cardiac was the easiest to draw @ 70lbs. (and I love that lil "hilltop" draw curve) but, all three in my book are smooth shooters. :darkbeer:


Where can I find more draw cycle graphs like this? I would like to see a couple examples of various different draw cycles, from the most agressive to the most smooth.


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

Archer100 said:


> Where can I find more draw cycle graphs like this? I would like to see a couple examples of various different draw cycles, from the most agressive to the most smooth.



Here is the draw curve of the Monster Bows Phoenix as well as a link to the specs:










http://www.monsterbows.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1057

Monster Bows is also in the process of manufacturing the Dragon, a 44" axle to axle bow more suitable for finger shooters. PM Mikie Day for more info or visit www.monsterbows.com/forums.


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## Archer100 (Aug 6, 2008)

Thanks "musikman". That's a very aggressive draw cycle with no valley right?

I would like to compare different types of "smooth" draw cycles too.


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## Mikie Day (Oct 21, 2002)

Archer100 said:


> Thanks "musikman". That's a very aggressive draw cycle with no valley right?
> 
> I would like to compare different types of "smooth" draw cycles too.


i dont remember the test bow we used but the phoenix is smoooooooth and the valley is adjustable from zero to 3 in +


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## Archer100 (Aug 6, 2008)

Mikie Day said:


> i dont remember the test bow we used but the phoenix is smoooooooth and the valley is adjustable from zero to 3 in +



Well .....I guess I'm interpreting the graph wrong or something? What did I miss?


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Archer100 said:


> Thanks "musikman". That's a very aggressive draw cycle with no valley right?
> 
> I would like to compare different types of "smooth" draw cycles too.


Archer 100...The draw cycle of the Monsterbows Phoenix isnt aggressive at all, since it gains weight at a very even amount, peaks out at 19", and stays there until 21", then slowly decreases weight until let-off...I bet that it is a pleasure to draw...When looking at an agressive draw cycle, the graph will look like a tophat...it will ramp straight up, be very level at the top, then drop back off sharply...The way to make speed with a bow is to keep the draw weight in the peak weight portion of the draw cycle longer...Hoyt's website should have some graphs of the draw cycle of their bows, the 2008 catalogue has them in there...Check out some of the websites of the current speed bows, and see if a draw force graph is on there..Bows like the 82nd Airborn from BowTech, the PSE X-Force, Elite's new stuff, High Country, etc..etc..A short valley at the let-off portion of the draw cycle gets the arrow moving forward quicker, since the cams are trying to "GO" with very little slack at full draw...I beleive that this is a contributing factor to inaccuracy with fingers, since the string comes off the fingers a little differently every time, and by the time the string tries to settle in, the cams are rolling over, and the arrow is on it's way...I could be full of bean soup, but it's just a theory...Good luck with Your search...Jim


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Yes, thats right! Less oscillation on the arrow the more accurate it should fly.


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## Dave V (Aug 13, 2008)

Archer100 said:


> Where can I find more draw cycle graphs like this? I would like to see a couple examples of various different draw cycles, from the most agressive to the most smooth.


http://www.hoyt.com/technologies/hoyt_cam_and_half_performance_system.php can generate graphs of their cam offerings. The softest (round wheel) is not shown, but you can see the others. As it was said before, the more agressive cams have steeper sides and a very small (if any) valley before it hits the "wall" where the string simply won't move any more no matter how hard you pull.

BTW, on another topic, did you get your sighting issues worked out?


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## Archer100 (Aug 6, 2008)

Dave V said:


> http://www.hoyt.com/technologies/hoyt_cam_and_half_performance_system.php can generate graphs of their cam offerings. The softest (round wheel) is not shown, but you can see the others. As it was said before, the more agressive cams have steeper sides and a very small (if any) valley before it hits the "wall" where the string simply won't move any more no matter how hard you pull.
> 
> BTW, on another topic, did you get your sighting issues worked out?


I've seen this before and I don't see much difference between them all. I don't know how they feel different because I haven't shot any of them. I don't think I will really understand a smooth and aggressive cam until I shot a bunch of variations of each-wich might never happen lol.

I spent some time again today trying to sight in the bow I've been using and almost started to consider running the bow over with a truck lol. I really think the bow has some major issues and needs help because no matter what I do, the sights do not work like they should. That bow definitely doesn't even come close to fitting me. If I didn't love archery so much, that bow would make me give up the sport!!!! lol


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## Katera RB (Aug 26, 2008)

Dave V said:


> http://www.hoyt.com/technologies/hoyt_cam_and_half_performance_system.php can generate graphs of their cam offerings. The softest (round wheel) is not shown, but you can see the others. As it was said before, the more agressive cams have steeper sides and a very small (if any) valley before it hits the "wall" where the string simply won't move any more no matter how hard you pull.
> 
> BTW, on another topic, did you get your sighting issues worked out?


So, if I understand correctly, the Z3 is a somewhat aggresive cam? That's what I've got and it seems smooth and is awsome to shoot.:wink: Am I correct in saying that the graph shows the Z3 as an aggresive cam?


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

The Hoyt Z-3 cams are the smoothest "Speed Cam" going....The Hoyt C-2 cams are just as smooth, or smoother, but arent touted as being a Speed cam, even though they are very close in speed to the Z-3 cams...They are both great cams either way...Jim


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## Katera RB (Aug 26, 2008)

ok, now I got it. Yes, definately both great cams!!


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

jerrytee said:


> Its the way an Oneida comes up to peak draw and goes into the valley. In comparison most other bows feel as if you are trying to pull back a brick wall on the first small portion of the draw, and the way the draw curve does not nose dive into the valley is like no other bow except Monster. The Ovation is good but it only gets in to the same ball park. The roller guide helps it get rid of that stickyness that you get with an ordinary calbe guide.


Jerrytee has it right......

From the responses on this thread, it is obvious 90% of you guys have never shot a true, round-wheel compound (such as a Hoyt AccuWheel, for example)....

Trust me when I say it will re-define your perception of "smooth"... :wink:


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## Mikie Day (Oct 21, 2002)

i have shot a synergy cam on a pse and the same type of round wheel style on a golden eagle...great for smoothness that is for sure....


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

TexasGuy said:


> Jerrytee has it right......
> 
> From the responses on this thread, it is obvious 90% of you guys have never shot a true, round-wheel compound (such as a Hoyt AccuWheel, for example)....
> 
> Trust me when I say it will re-define your perception of "smooth"... :wink:


TexasGuy.....I'm in the 10% that have shot round wheel bows, soft cam bows, single cam bows, Cam 1/2 bows, dual cam bows, and I even had an Oneida X-80 for a while...I reckon that it's just an opinion of each person, but for Me, I dont even like the feel of the draw on a round wheel bow...very soft and spongey feeling to Me...A soft back wall, or no back wall at all seems counterproductive to Me as well...I prefer to draw the bow to my anchor, hit the draw stops, and keep pulling into that wall to maintain backtension/release...To each Their own...We all have to shoot what works for Us...What some call SMOOTH, I call soft, spongey, and SLOW...I'll take the middle ground, and shoot a bow that draws pretty smooth, has a good back wall, a short-ish valley, and enough speed to work well for the Archery games that I play...I'm shooting Hoyt ProTec, XT-3000 limbs,and Spiral cams right now, tweeked to about as close to perfect on draw length as I've ever felt, and once I get used to this bow, I feel that I'll shoot it better than anything that I've owned to date....Take care.....Jim


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## Landjaeger (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm following this with some interest. Especially the info on the Monster bows.

I shot compounds years ago but switched to recurves and longbows and haven't looked back since.

While cleaning out my basement I came across my old Golden Eagle round wheel compound and decided to dust it off, strip it down and give her a whirl.
Shooting that critter with fingers and no sight is every bit as fun and shooting my trad gear!

Can the Monster bows be shot with fingers?


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

The Dragon is the finger bow.


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## Mikie Day (Oct 21, 2002)

Landjaeger said:


> I'm following this with some interest. Especially the info on the Monster bows.
> 
> I shot compounds years ago but switched to recurves and longbows and haven't looked back since.
> 
> ...


yes...depending on your draw length and style of shooting finger pinch is in the hand of the bow holder...we are getting ready to release a longer more finger friendly (at longer draws) bow soon called the dragon, check out our web site , we have alot of guys shooting fingers

Mikie


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

Depending on where you live, most Monster owners are more than willing to let you shoot their bow for the sheer enjoyment of witnessing the expression on your face from such a smooth drawing bow. There is a stickie @ www.monsterbows.com/forums that has a map of all owners by state. 

Say Mikie, when do I get added to the payroll?


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## Landjaeger (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. I registered over on your site as PAarcher. 

I did some looking around but can't seem to find any pics of the Dragon.


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

Here's the link to the Dragon photos. It has been powdercoated by a staff shooter and will also be available in a variety of camoflauge patterns courtesy of www.h2oimaging.com.

http://www.monsterbows.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3409


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

Here's a link to a video of the Dragon being shot. Keep in mind, Todd is shooting into a garage, hence the explosion sound of the arrow hitting th target, heh.

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/toddman214/?action=view&current=MVI_0509.flv


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