# Who will an individual medal?



## dr t (May 15, 2004)

On Monday USA Today made a prediction for medal count for all USA teams and individuals in the Olympics. Their prediction for USA archery was only one medal -- a bronze for the men's team. Interesting. We will see.


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## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

I'm pulling for LimbWalker. Go John!


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

I shot all winter with Vic and he was pretty sharp. In fact, he was scary deadly at 70M. I can probably count on one hand the number of arrows I saw that weren't in the gold at that distance.


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

Prediction : Jen Nichols bronze medal. Men's team bronze.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Speaking bluntly here, with some extremely weak links in terms of experience on the team, many observers and experts think the US archery team has its lowest medal chances in 12 years.

Unfortunately the results from the one and only international competition in which some of these shooters participated in tends to back this pessimistic view. The results for two team members (which never seem to have been discussed on this forum) were probably OK for first-timers but dismal for what one would expect from US Olympic team members three weeks before the Games.

It would be nice if that view were proven wrong, but odds appear to be against it. 

It's really an enormous gamble to throw inexperienced people into this kind of situation and expect them to rise to the occasion. In some ways it's unfair to the individiuals and in many more ways it's unfair to the organization- and it's proof of the flaws of the selection process, perhaps. The NAA faces an enormous revenue loss (from the USOC) should they fail to meet the goals that have been set.

Then again, it's important to remember that no one can predict what will happen once competition actually starts. 

A good example-I remember watching Justin Huish shoot three foot groups in precompetition practice in Atlanta and thinking "this guy isn't ready !!"  

So let's hope for some pleasant surprises from Athens !


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I guess this has always been a dilemna in shooting sports where due to the nature of the competition(where almost all the candidates can peform the physical act-shooting the arrow into the ten ring-as opposed to high jumping where a guy who never jumped 7 feet ever is NOT going to win a spot) many people can "win" a spot.

IN USST the powers that be decided that instead of the old four day trials they would have several trials to pick a team. 1984 6th Place rifle shooter and 83 PAn Am Gold medalist John Rost is a client of my shop. He won a place on the 84 team as a civilian beating people who had been on army teams for years. His selection, along with civilian skeet shooters Brad Simmons (76) and Mike Thompson (84) over favored "professional" shooters was one of the reasons for the change. However, the "new sytem" has not produced any more medals and as John Stated to me a couple days ago, he can't affort the time (he is a bank executive with a family) to jump through all the hoops. Grassroots participation in the process has dropped off-in 88 we had 120 Skeet shooters with wait list with at least 25 of us who had shot the Olympic MQS (188/200). I doubt 35 people even make the process anymore and that only hurts the quality since you don't have the grass roots quantity.

the olympics doesn't award medals to the guy who has shot the best over the year. John Magera peaked for the trials and beat guys with far more "credentials" just as Flute and Huish and Fairweather did. all that international experience didn't seem to help Shull and Jason and Guy and Rod and Justin at our shoot.

I don't know the answer but since the games reward who is hot for a few days, I don't have a problem with our trials working the same way and in the past, given how few fita archers we have, the record is far better than many other sports and far better than countries which take fita archery far more seriously


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## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

*Show me the $$$*

How much money is the USOC giving to NAA? Is it enough to fund a complete program? If not winning medals causes the USOC to pull the funds, then maybe that's an indicator that the NAA is a good recreational org. but something or someone else needs to be created to take U.S. archery to the level they desire. I would bet that it won't be cheap. 

If winning a medal is of such high priority, then why doesn't the USOC partner with the manufacturers and other archery organizations to make it happen. You can't "buy" a medal but I would think that something could be done to up the odds. There is another thread the discussed this pretty well. When are "they" going to get serious about making the U.S. an archery powerhouse?

With the Olympic format, isn't it a bit like match play in golf? If someone is hot at the moment, they could be quite a surprise. Granted that some have a better chance than others but we're not talking about the Jamacan bobsled team here...


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

> With the Olympic format, isn't it a bit like match play in golf? If someone is hot at the moment, they could be quite a surprise.


Statistically, at the Olympic Games, in the past 12 years of match play (16 if you count the 88 Grand FITA) there has never been a substantial "surprise" of that sort. There are many who whine about "luck" having a role in the outcome of the OR but there is very little fact to support that view.

Jim C said:


> I don't know the answer but since the games reward who is hot for a few days


Jim C,

No, they do not. You are surely aware that Barrs, Flute, Huish and Fairweather were all consistent 1320-1340+ shooters and all had as a minimum, 5 years of international competition experience, before winning the Olympic Games. 

In fact, since implementation of match play, NO INDIVIDUAL MALE has medaled at any level, who did not meet this criterion.

We're all pulling for all of our shooters, but this isn't about the individuals in question as much as it is about the NAA's selection system and its obvious structural problems in this particular quadrennium. (Not the event itself, which was very well run, but the selection plan).

I am most definitely not interested in making this a personal comment about anyone on the team.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

>--gt--> said:


> *Statistically, at the Olympic Games, in the past 12 years of match play (16 if you count the 88 Grand FITA) there has never been a substantial "surprise" of that sort. There are many who whine about "luck" having a role in the outcome of the OR but there is very little fact to support that view.
> 
> Jim C said:
> 
> ...


I realize that the people who won were very good-I was not talking about another "Eddie the Eagle" but before the OR Round, the guy who won was usually world 1-4. Williams was world silver and world champion , Pace not only was world Champion, he also held every world record, 80 doesn't count and in 84, the top two guys from the 83 worlds (tie score 2613) went 1-2. 

I don't believe that Simon was even ranked in the top 10 going into Sydney and had not had any major international success since the 91 worlds where he had that great pass at 90meters. Huish never medaled at a world championship though he did ok in the test event. When I meant getting hot, I meant a guy who was not say a Frangilli or Oh Moon.

Before the OR event, it seems that the guy who won was usually the first pick or at worst, 2 or 3.

I don't think anyone had Huish picked-the SI analysis had Oh, Frangilli and Rod White as I recall. In 72, everyone figured Williams would medal, Pace was picked by everyone in 76 and He and Mckinney were seen as sure bets in 84

I don't think we have an argument however, my point was noting that I don't think the US trials should be changed and its not Magera or Arnold's fault that our "more experienced" shooters didn't rise to the challenge-what can be said when two of the four women on last olympic or world team didn't even make the cut?


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

No argument Jim, just a cordial difference of opinion ! 

I think a two stage event might- or might not- have had a far different outcome. 

Besides, I'm troubled by your reference to the other shooting sports. Of all people, you know there's a tremendous difference between shooting a recurve and shooting a firearm. It's not even apples and oranges... it's apples and moon rocks.


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

Interesting discussion but some of it is disturbing. How else can the olympic team members be chosen? That's one thing I love about archery. All that matters is the score and that winner is not "chosen" by judges or anything else other than where the arrows hit. As soon as we start talking about selection based on anything other than score, you're crossing over into the figure skating and gymnastics realm.

Why are we even discussing this? Disrespectful to the team in my opinion at this point.

Back to Joe's question though. Who will medal? After seeing Frangilli's comeback in Turkey, how can he not be a favorite? Barnes and Frangilli just seem to show up in the semi-finals regardless of their qualifying scores. For the US, I agree with Matt Z's prediction of bronze for Jen Nichols and bronze for men's team. I would love to see one of our men medal though, any of them.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

> How else can the olympic team members be chosen? <snip> As soon as we start talking about selection based on anything other than score, you're crossing over into the figure skating and gymnastics realm.


In the 1996 trials and 2000 trials processes, the teams were chosen after multiple events, still based upon scores. Not one event, but several. 

The previous time a single event was used, 1992, the US did not win a single medal. 

This multiple event process is proven to select the most consistently good competitors for the current climate of Olympic competition. No other country with a record of success in the current form of Olympic archery competition uses a single event to pick their teams. 

*You* are the only one bringing up the idea of non-score based selection, "*we*" aren't.



> Why are we even discussing this? Disrespectful to the team in my opinion at this point.


Are you a professional comedian, or just an amateur ?


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## mbu (Oct 22, 2003)

I am glad to see “Butch”, Vic and John on the US Olympic men archery team. I believe that we have a good balance between the very experienced and accomplished international archers and a “newcomer” who shoots with great confidence, spends a lot of time in perfecting his form and equipment and has so far a very strong, although short, recurve shooting tournament record. This team has more chances to win a medal in comparison to the Spanish team in 1992 (the biggest surprise, in my opinion). 

I believe that men’s team and Jen might have a chance for a medal.


Also,

On March 11th, 2004 I’ve posted on the Sagittarius board the listed below message which expressed my opinion regarding the Olympic trials process (link to an appropriate thread = http://sagittarius.student.utwente....ys=0&postorder=asc&highlight=olympic&start=30

A question who should or should not be participating in the Olympic Games and their goals is as old as the modern Olympics. The selection process in many countries reflects the specific goals. 

In the United State people like Limbwalker can convert to the Olympic style archery just about a year or so prior to the Olympics and still have a very good chance of making the team or winning a medal. Should he decide to do the same in a country like Korea, he simply won’t be able to do so: to the best of my knowledge, there are no open to the public clubs or archery ranges for people of his age that would be allowed practicing the Olympic style archery. 

The entire Korean system is designed to produce the top level archers with one ultimate goal of winning the gold medals at the Olympics Games, World Championships, or the Asian Games. All other reasons are secondary. Koreans will, most likely, win more medals in archery than any other nation at the upcoming Olympics, and I am not going to begin judging which system is better. They are just two different approaches that represent two different cultures. 

Some other countries have the selection process that resembles the one as described by Vittorio. I believe that this process allows selecting the archers that have a better chance of winning the medals: archers with a proven performance record will be rewarded a well deserved place in their respective teams. 

The selection process in the United States is very open, leaves very little room for “behind the scene” politics, but also leaves a lot of room for not selecting archers with the best chances of winning the medals at the Olympics: while “Butch” and Vic are the most likely medal contenders, I would not be surprised if either or both of them will not make the Olympic team. 

In adapting Limbwalker’s philosophy, the US selection process will determine “who the best shooter for that week is”.


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

Hi JoeM and >--gt-->

My predictions:

Male - Butch will be getting one. Not sure which but “a medal”.

Female - Jen Nichols has the best chance in a long time, for one of our females to medal.

Teams - Men should take Bronze behind Australia and Korea. The female Koreans, Chinese and the Europeans are a big hurdle for our girls.

These are my predictions, not my wishes.


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## Tony_zelah (Apr 26, 2003)

Larry Godfrey and Alison Williams from the UK are two to watch............you heard it hear


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## JoeM (Mar 31, 2003)

Wow, I was trying to start a discussion on who might might medal not the surprising outcome of our trials.

We can argue about the next Olympic Trials in 2 years.

For now I would like to see Butch Johnson win the GOLD


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Fair enough Joe ! I will take the easy road here and predict a Korean woman for a women's individual medal.

All other bets are off !!


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

I guess I'm confused then. Either the OR is a good system or it is not. We can't claim that the olympic team selection process is flawed but yet claim the OR round is a valid format for choosing the medalists at the olympics, can we? 

By the way gt, I'm a professional comedian in my own mind, but if you ask my wife, she will most definitely say I'm amateur.


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## JoeM (Mar 31, 2003)

I'll also predict the Korean women 1 2 3 but I would like to see Jenny medal. It would be a great boost for the ladies division in the US.


I still predict Butch, for Gold. He has had a long distinguished career, an individual Gold would be icing on the cake for him.


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

quote by gt:

"In the 1996 trials and 2000 trials processes, the teams were chosen after multiple events, still based upon scores. Not one event, but several".
----and----
"This multiple event process is proven to select the most consistently good competitors for the current climate of Olympic competition. No other country with a record of success in the current form of Olympic archery competition uses a single event to pick their teams". 

Totally agree!!!!!!


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## arrow1347 (Mar 21, 2003)

*win medal*

joe, I agree with you its butchs turn for gold, and I think jens going to medal also. USA is due for a gold sweep.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

>--gt--> said:


> *No argument Jim, just a cordial difference of opinion !
> 
> I think a two stage event might- or might not- have had a far different outcome.
> 
> Besides, I'm troubled by your reference to the other shooting sports. Of all people, you know there's a tremendous difference between shooting a recurve and shooting a firearm. It's not even apples and oranges... it's apples and moon rocks. *


MOON ROCKS???? well ok then


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

LOL Jim, i thought you might like that 

Headed to Athens, I'll see y'all on the flip side.


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## Bearcarver (Feb 26, 2003)

Having talked to Vic and his Dad, I have the upmost confidence that he will be bring another medal home to the USA.

GO VIC!


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Predicting the individual medal is near impossible, simply too competitive, and that's what makes the Olympics so good. 
In the Mens
Will the Koreans choke, yet again?
Will Frangelli get the medal after the worlds last year
Who will be the US's top gun, the veteren Butch, the Sydney Star Vic or the newbie John?
Will Australia get 2 archers into the final 4 again?
How long before someone else says we shouldn't discuss olympics again on this forum? 

In the Womens
Will there be 2 Koreans on the podium, or 3?

In the Teams
Can anyone stop the STDs? (The Aussie Team?)


Here is my prediction
The US will bring home 1 medal in the archery. It will not be in the womens. (jen Nicolls is a good shooter, best teh US has produced in a long time, but 1330 vs the Koreans 1370-1380 is a huge difference)


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## Focal (Aug 6, 2004)

I call David Barnes silver, butch bronze, and one of those damn koreans gold in the mens. No guesses on the women's side


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## SagarM (Jan 9, 2003)

Good call on David Barnes, great shooter. The guy has won the 3rd place in every major meet these past years. But about the Koreans, well I think they will take at least 1 medal home if not 1 or 2 or even 3. After getting my ass whooped by one of them at the worlds and he was just a college shooter, I’m convinced that they will take some names and post some worlds records. hahaha


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## MERLIN 1400 (Jun 16, 2002)

I'm going for Barnes Gold, a Korean Silver and Frangilli Bronze.

Korean Women.....well 1.2.3.

I reckon the USA won't win any medals 

Oh Australia for Mens Team Gold in an Upset over the Koreans  ...who will no doubt break the world record in every match leading up to the Finals and then choke.


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## Xander (Dec 4, 2003)

Mine predictions;

Mens recurve;

1. David Barnes (Aus)
2. Wietse van Alten (Ned)
3. Korean, but don´t know who...

Ladies;

At least 2 koreans by the last three, 3rd guess would be Jennifor, Allisson Williamons or Natalia Valeeva...

Teams: 

Mens:

1 Italy
2 Netherlands
3 Korea / australia

Ladies

1 Korea (iff you want to win money easy, just place your bet)
2 China
3 Italy / France


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## BILL B (Jun 21, 2003)

Based on some insider info I would vote for Tim Cuddihy over Barnes from Australia however I suspect that neither will finish higher than 3rd. 

The mens gold should go to a Korean, Frangilli or Van Alten. Mens team medals to Korea, Australia, Italy, the Netherlands or the USA.

Woman's individual and team medals to the Korean Ladies. Their record is tough to beat.


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## Bulldog GB (Oct 29, 2002)

I going to give my predictions.

Men idv, There will be a medal going to Aus, Maybe Frangile, or Van Alten. Or Baljinima TSYREMPILOV. and watch out for Larry Godfrey from GB, the lad is on Fire. 

Womens it would be nice to at least 1 medal go some where other than Korea. But would not be a suprise if it did not.

Teams. Men Korea, Australia, netherland and Itay in last 4.

Ladies, Korea, China, Ukraine and Great Britten in last 4.

I am sure it will be great to watch it all.

The Dog


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Women teams-Korea, Italy, China
Women individuals. Two Koreans and Jen Nichols or Natalia Valeeva

Men's Team Italy, Korea, USA, Australia in no particular Order

Men's Individual. Frangilli, one of the two young Australians, Wunderle and one of the Koreans


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

The scores shot by the Korean women are astounding.  Those scores would have won most of the US men's tournaments this year. 682?   Jeesh. That's unreal.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

A korean girl in NYC last year shot the same score at 70 as did Mary Zorn when Zorn shot what was then a WR FITA.

In other words, Korean lady recurve archers often outshoot the best compound archers at 70M


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

Looks like Butch, Vic, and John finished 16,43, and 47 respectively.


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

Yikes, I just noticed that the Korean women scored equal to or better than all the men except for Im from Korea (#1 men's qualifier).


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

When somebody figures out what their putting in the water in Korea, please let me know, I wanna buy some.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

the korean system of winnowing down hundreds of kids to create a few medalists would never fly here. IT would be like saying anyone who doesn't make the varsity cut on the high school tennis team could never play again-any HS kid who couldn't get a Division I scholarship has to quit and any college player who couldn't rank on the ATP top 100 is finished.

How many american kids would spend a year with a loop of rope practicing form before they could get a bow? despite all that, our archers have done OK compared to Korea-especially our men. Darrell Pace has more olympic individual gold medals than all the Korean men combined.

Other than Table tennis and Tae Kwan do, its the most important sport to them and in the USA, about number 50 I suspect in terms of serious practitioners. The market decides our athletes while in Korea its different. IF we put the effort into archery that we do into football or baseball, we would prevail because we have more talent but right now its far more important to them, collectively than it is to us


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## BILL B (Jun 21, 2003)

It's not the water or magic. It's hard work, incentives, mental training (Zen), uniform coaching, intense competition within Korea.


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## clever_guy (May 21, 2002)

"...hard work, incentives, mental training (Zen), uniform coaching, intense competition.."

Dead bodies, berating athletes, threat of being dropped from the sport if you don't perform (conform?)...

Yep, all part of the mix...

 

-CG


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Jim C said:


> *How many american kids would spend a year with a loop of rope practicing form before they could get a bow? *


Very few, however this is exactly what Australia's AIS scholarship holders being coached by KiSik Lee are doing. 8 hours a day for months on end till they get it right they are working with an elastic band. They didn't start their archery that way, but they end up doing it when their form is being reconstructed. Tim and Dave both have done this.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Okay, Okay.

Enough talk about the Koreans...

We all know they are great, but the medals aren't won on paper.

We will just have to see what happens.

Conditions in the morning yesterday were almost perfect. Not the slightest breeze until the 40th arrow or so, then just a whisper.

For the men, we had changing winds. Left to right then right to left. Not strong, but decieving. Many arrows "just out" to the point of frustration for many.

GT is here, so I will respond to him in person. He is correct about many things, and I agree with him on the selection process. Only thing is, we played the game we had to play this time around. Maybe next time it will be different? Who knows. 

I am also totally aware that there are many folks just waiting for Stephanie and myself to fall on our face. 

But I'm here to say it just won't happen. 

I will not defend my selection. That is not my job. But I will be glad to work closely with the NAA or anyone else who wants to improve the process. We should be sending our best, and I am as troubled and surprised as anyone at some of the finishes at the trials by some of our best archers. 

Just ask us to do our best and be happy with the results. We are all prepared to do our best and we need your support in order to do that.

More later.

John.


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## clever_guy (May 21, 2002)

"I will not defend my selection. That is not my job."

You shouldn't have to Limbwalker - there was a fair selection process you won your seat based on your performance in that contest against archers who were in the top calibre of your country. Revel in it, you are at the Olympics, some athletes train their entire sporting career and never make it - you did!!

There are always detractors - and if you are looking on the Internet throw in some fruits and nuts to boot - but don't forget, Darrel Pace didn't win his first major International competition - until he won his first major International competition, and Simon Fairweather was an outside shot until he won his Olympic Gold. For all you know you may just be starting your series of wins. You are there, you have the skills, you have proven you deserve to be there in a fair qualification, now just compete.

Enjoy your Olympic experience! 



-CG


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

I agree with everything CG said (only in the last post though  ) forget any of the BS on here John, you are an Olympian and no one will ever take that away from you. 
Good luck, you're the only American I'm cheering for this time round.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

USA vs Australia vs Canada

As the 3 major countries involved in this discussion I thought this may interest you

Limbwalker and Ohayon (CAN) could meet in the 1/16 round
Limbwalker or Ohanyon could meet Dave Barnes in the 1/4 round
Fairweather could meet Cuddihy in the 1/4 round
The winner of that match could meet Butch Johnson in the 1/2 Round
Wunderle could meet Barnzy in the 1/2 round

Limbwalker, Wunderle or Barnzy could meet Johnson, Fairweather or Cuddihy in the gold match


So except for an early match, our countries don't square off that much. It's possible to have 2 Aussies or 2 Americans in the gold medal match, but not possible for either country to take all three medals.


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## clever_guy (May 21, 2002)

"Limbwalker and Ohayon (CAN) could meet in the 1/16 round"
"Limbwalker or Ohanyon could meet Dave Barnes in the 1/4 round"
"It's possible to have 2 Aussies or 2 Americans in the gold medal match, but not possible for either country to take all three medals." (but not a single Canadian...)

Sooo...in Marcus' "imaginary" Olympics did Canada lose in the 1/16's or the 1/4's...

      

-CG


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Obviously the 1/16th round. Geez!


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## clever_guy (May 21, 2002)

"Obviously the 1/16th round. Geez!"

My morraccas, chanting, and fancy dancing say differently pal...

    

-CG


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

John,

Which Axis are you shooting? Just curious.

Have fun and stay in the gold.


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

Oh, I forgot, if anyone is interested...there is a really cool article on John on the ESPN olympic pages. Very cool.


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## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

*good article*

Here's the link to the article . I guess the editors didn't catch the frame that lists the archers as being on the diving team... Hmm, archery and diving? I guess they got wet enough the first day of the trials. Why not!


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## JoeM (Mar 31, 2003)

*Limbwalker*

John,

There is no need to defend your olympic team spot. Your spot on the team was earned it was not given to you on silver platter. 
Ditto for Stephaine

Many archers including myself just didn't bring the right stuff to the trials.

Relax, have fun and enjoy the experience.


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## lft_arw (Sep 11, 2002)

Jon…

There are many of us who do not expect you or anyone else to fall flat on your face or any other part of your body for that matter. I for one support the selection process that made the US team; it’s a good way to clear the dead wood from the ones who really want it. Whether you know it or not a lot of us are shooting every arrow along with you and the rest of our US team…

It seems to me that the ones that are not on the team, or do not have realistic chance to make the team due to 'LOFT', or have enough experience in high level tournaments are the most disgruntled or opinionated.

Give it all on the line


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## Michigander (Jul 31, 2002)

I'm with ya John.................go for the gold man.
I think you have a whole lot more support here in the U.S. than you know.
GO TEAM USA!

Jerry


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Don't put too much stock in the results of the RR. I know for a fact, some teams had shooters "throw" arrows in the RR to adjust their team round bracketing. You simply can't predict the outcome from the results of the ranking round.

No top ranked archer from the RR has yet won the Olympic Games, and it's often because coaches work to ensure certain bracket arrangements don't happen to their shooters.


Pretty darn hot here in Athens.


LW, shame on you for reading all this crap before competition


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## arrow1347 (Mar 21, 2003)

*limbwalker*

john, just do it. us old guys are pulling for ya. barry


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## mbu (Oct 22, 2003)

Limbwalker,

As your name suggests, your limbs can “walk that walk”. You proved it so many times already. 

Good luck and just enjoy the moment. 

MBU (you know who I am)


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Limbwalker,

I am surprised by the suggestion that there are people who are hoping to see you fall on your face. I guess I should stop being so naive. But I bet there are hundreds more people who want to see you just shoot each shot the best you can.

Although the selection was based on just one shoot, it went on for a long time, a lot of arrows, too many for fluke success. Too many to say you don't fully deserve to represent the USA. I concur with the others who've said you really shouldn't be reading and thinking about this crap before competition. Because it is total crap.

What you've done is great for archery in the US and the world because the media clearly is just crazy about it; and it greatly inspires all us also-rans. It's just a great story. Have fun!

Best of luck and thank you,

Terry


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## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

I have looked at the rankings and the opponents the US will be going against in the first round. All of our archers were ranked pretty low which places them in a position to go against really good shots early in the OR. Our archers have had some bad luck lately which included the US open so hopefully that bad luck has run out. I think Butch and Jen are our best chances. Buch I believe is the oldest male in this Olympics. I think Natalia Valleva will medal. There is a woman archer from greece who qualified well and too keep tradition going, she may be the Greek to take a gold. I had picked Frangilli to win, however he seemed to have shot poorly in the ranking round and will have to work really hard to make it to the top. However with the Olympic round, luck has lots to do with it so you never know what will happen. Whoever is ranked with the right people at the right time will take home the gold.

As for the Olympic selection procedures, I think they did a great job in doing it in round robin format. it is not the selection procedure that lets in less experienced people. It is the lack of proper training we have for Archers in the US that we need to be on an elite level. An Olympic bow takes more work, time, and determiantion than does a compound. Many of us do not have that time or are not able to work that hard. Another thing is that weather can dramatically change results for a single tournament. IF you have perfect weather, you can get the best archers, if you have wind and/or rain it is easy to catch someone on a bad day and scores may even out more. or perhaps more tournaments should be included in the selection procedure to take the most consistant archers instead whoever is good that week.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Joe, others,

Thanks for the votes of confidence. I always appreciate positive energy and prayers. Joe, the new Rolling Rank is out and you will like your placement 

GT, 

Don't worry. I feed off of it. Just makes me more determined and 
besides, there is nothing else to do in the village!  

My years of L.E. training have taught me to "switch" off distractions when I need to, and when I get on the line, everybody else is "switched off." Besides, here they aren't shooting back at me! ha, ha, ha. See you tommorrow  

Chris,

I'm going to dance with the one that brought me, the red bow. The "flag" bow I have is pretty, and nice for media day, but It can't out-shoot the red one on a regular basis.

TER, 

Always a few jerks in the mix, but just a select few, that's all. I actually heard from one at the trials! Don't mean to sound like it's a problem, because it isn't. You are correct. Many, many more supporters than detractors, and I appreciate every bit of it!

Brad,

well stated. I agree completely with your second paragraph.

Keep the positive energy flowing folks, and thanks.

John.


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## JoeM (Mar 31, 2003)

I was watching the womens cycling this morning and it seems very windy. This explains the why some of the scores are very off the mark.


USA Shoot Straight !!!!!!!!


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

looks like Stephanie and Janet went out in the first round -not close while Jenny had an easy win shooting a strong 160. The girl she meets next also shot a 160 I see. Windy conditions=tall archers had some advantage I believe

Big upset, many time world and Euro Champion Natalia Valeeva (moldavia now shooting for Italy ) went out in the first round


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

It was a windy morning all over Athens, not just here at Panathinaiko Stadium. Gusts topped up to 20 MPH very briefly.

The wind isn't affecting the arrows much- I can see every arrow shot through the full flight path, and they're not really drifting much at all--- but it is taking a toll on archer form. Some people like Jonathan Ohayon caught bad breaks as they were buffeted by gusts just as they shot. It was nice to see Jon go out with a 10 on his last shot though. Janet Dykman in particular couldn't catch a break- she was pushed around on release just about every end. Dave Barnes similarly had bad luck with wind gust timing.

As bad as the wind is here at the stadium, if we had held archery at the old proposed site (Hellinikon air base) the competition would have probably been cancelled due to hazardous conditions. Much stronger wind and storms there. Rowing has been postponed for that reason.

It bears notice that there were some excellent scores shot in the wind, 160+ from the likes of Magnus Petersson and some of the Chinese archers.

So it isn't just the weather. A lot of it is that some very good shooters simply couldn't take the pressure.

Vic Wunderle cruised to an easy win. So did Jen Nichols.

Limbwalker, Steph, and Janet are all out until the team round.

Butch shoots this afternoon.

I can say that I have never seen so many misses and white ring shots at any tournament at all much less at the Olympic Games, as I have here.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

another big shocker-Australian star David Barnes shot a good score but lost by nine to Andersson of Sweden


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

I like the US selection process.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yea, freaky winds for sure.

I agree with GT. I never aimed off more than two rings, but the wind pushing us around was the problem. The faster shooters had a big advantage. If you held too long (as I did on two shots) you were dead. 

As for the ladies, the first day was a tale of two venues. In the morning, it was dead calm (when Jenny shot) then the winds began to roar. So much so that a press box (about 10'x6') was lifted off the stadium floor. One person shot a scoreboard, several others the carpet. Many of the ladies that lost in the morning will have much higher scores (and rankings) than those who lost in the afternoon.

It ain't pretty. Almost luck of the draw since you alternate shots and you absolutely have to shoot your arrow within the 40 second limit.

Sure is making things interesting!

John.


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## JoeM (Mar 31, 2003)

Just saw that Butch was knocked out.  

I hope the weather improves for 1/16th Go JENNY AND VIC !!!!!!!!

Next Team Round. GO USA!!!!!!!!!!


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

*Crap*

That wind must be BRUTAL. When John and Butch are not "red or better" you know there's got to be some bad conditions that they're shooting in. I can only imagine having to shoot in those conditions.

Hey John, I saw you guys in the opening ceremony. Didn't see Butch though; he must have been off to the side. Tell Vic the camera got a nice full shot of his big smile though.  

Pass our good wishes on to Jen and Vic for the rest of the eliminations. Go get 'em in the team round.

Later.


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## Dave Barnes (Jul 25, 2003)

Wasnt the best conditions for playing this game in...... were a couple of upsets like 52nd beating 13th ranked. Not a day im going to try and remember  

GT is doing a fine job. Today he announced Tim Cuddihy's profession as a stamp collector (cause thats what the idiot put on his form  ) Tomorrow you should read out his long term ambition of having a child in every Australian state, if it wasnt censored 

Barnzy


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## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

Steph, John, Butch, Dave, Simon, and everyone else: no matter what happens, you earned the right to be there and the rest of us are still at home!


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## clever_guy (May 21, 2002)

"Tim Cuddihy's profession as a stamp collector (cause thats what the idiot put on his form ) Tomorrow you should read out his long term ambition of having a child in every Australian state, if it wasnt censored"

Ha! Any wonder why it is so easy to root for Aussies..

   

-CG


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

Good show Dave. I'll be rooting for you guys in the team event and I'm still hoping Tim goes far into the medal rounds.

I hope the Aussie women do well as a team also.


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## 12Cedars (Aug 4, 2004)

Limbwalker
Nice job just getting there as far as I am concerned. You are there shooting for the Us Olympic team and where are we. At home watching! Good luck in the team round. Shoot straight. Let all the negativity roll right off your shoulders. 

Tim


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## doume (Feb 1, 2003)

Found this morning on Google's frontpage


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Broke my heart watching Butch's match. But I know how it feels. You just do your best and see what happens. The winds were so unpredictable, and gusty, that it was a total crap shoot. Only change I would make would be to have both archers shooting at exactly the same time, instead of alternating. At least that way they would have the same gusts to deal with. But, this is the game we have and at least in my case, I was beat by a better archer, plain and simple. To shoot a 159 in those conditions is remarkable. My hat is off to him.

Tough luck Barnzy. Take heart in the fact that you have many more to go, and this was good experience. The old farts like me can't say that! ha, ha, ha. Of course, If I last as long as Butch, I have at least 4 more Olympics in me  

Thanks for all the words of support folks. I always let the negative energy roll off. Either that, or I feed off it, but it never, never gets me down.

Chris, I can't wait to get back to the states and shoot a few with you. It will be my pleasure indeed.

Later...

John.


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## I BOW 2 (May 22, 2002)

Not to belittle our own teams accomplishments this year, but is there a reason that the Korean team is shooting so well in the wind and we are not? Do they have a better or different training regiment for the real windy days? Ken


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## palmer (Sep 23, 2003)

Vic made it through!  I just saw Van Alten, Petersson, and Frangilli all lost their matches. Cuddihy made it through. He has a tough road ahead in his bracket.

If I'm looking at the brackets correctly, Vic has a good route to the medals. No Koreans. 

Alot of tight matches shaping up with alot of people shooting in the mid 160's.

Also, I'm assuming the wind isn't like it was since the scores look much, much better than yesterday.


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## MerlinApexDylan (Oct 14, 2002)

Fita must have messed up. They showed Vic losing the match to Chinese Taipei.

NBC shows different. Fita needs to get that fixed.


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## Tony_zelah (Apr 26, 2003)

Tony_zelah said:


> *Larry Godfrey and Alison Williams from the UK are two to watch............you heard it hear  *


Well Done Alison on a great bronze medal


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