# LW sticks vs. Muddy sticks side by side



## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*More photos*

This photo shows that the bottom steps are at the same height.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*More photos*

This one shows the distance I set the Muddy sticks between the top of one stick to the bottom of the next stick. It was 19.25".


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## lunkerbuster (Aug 25, 2006)

thanks for the info.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*More*

This one shows the distance between the top of one LW and the bottom of the next one.  It was only at 18.375" so it was an inch closer than the Muddy but close enough for the comparison.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*More*

This one shows the distance there is between step on a LW stick.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*More*

This one shows the distance between steps on a Muddy stick. This is where I think you make up some distance on the LW. The Muddy sticks have about 3" more between steps.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*More*

This shows the LW sticks placed on a LW stand so you can see how high and how long they are. About 34 inches.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*More*

This one shows a set of Muddy sticks on the back of the LW stand.


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## goblism (Apr 12, 2007)

that pretty much takes care of any interest i had in the muddy sticks...thanks!


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## One eye (Jun 22, 2003)

Thanks for the post. More reason for me to buy more LW sticks.
Appreciate your efforts.
Dan


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*Overall impression*

I have owned the LW sticks for a couple of years now and loved them up to this point. 

A few things I didn't like about the LW was the step only coming off one side and the metal buckle never failed to hit something and make some noise I was trying to avoid when putting them up or taking them down. 

The 4 sticks from Muddy come in right at 10.5 lbs. The things I like about the Muddy sticks are the steps come off both sides. There is not metal buckle and you would be surprised how much faster you can hook one up compared to the buckle on the LW. The Muddy sticks bundle together easier than the LW. It always seemed like I would have to look between the steps on the LW to get the bolt to hit that little hole. 

So for about the same price you get 3 LW sticks or 4 Muddy sticks and you will end up about 6" higher with the Muddy sticks than you will with the LW sticks. The Muddy's seem to go up quicker, don't have any metal to clank, and have the step coming off both sides.

I should get to do some more real hunting testing with them in the next few weeks and will keep you posted on how things go. So far I am giving the edge to the Muddy sticks.


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## TTNuge (Aug 21, 2009)

Only used my Muddy sticks a few times but I've been real happy. Never had the LW ones so I have nothing to compare to but I am satisfied. I agree that the Muddy sticks have been easy to setup, especially when already 10' or so up and you have to strap on the next stick. Of course I always use my linesman's belt. 

I did take a few tips away from your pics. I think I'll try keeping the steps out the next time I haul them into the woods, sometimes they can be a real pain to cam the steps out to the sides and I imagine as it gets real cold outside it could get even tougher. And I like the way you run your ropes as well, much easier and organized than my method. 

I still need to figure out if a ratchet strap or a bungee cord or what is the best way to attach them to the stand for the hike. What do you use?

Trent


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## Brock-ID (Apr 2, 2005)

I'v been looking at a pair of sticks, but I like what I see with the Muddy. I think the Lone Wolf's are good to but I think Muddys would fit the bill a little closer.

Thanks for the research and the photos. It is nice to these kind of threads.


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## adventuregeorge (Mar 7, 2007)

I was thinking of going to try the Muddy, but I would need 5 to compare to my 4 LW sticks... setting a stand at around 14 to 15 is a little low for me. I can get 18.5 to 20' with my 4 LW sticks.

I do like the rope cam system for the Muddy... that took some inovation and is pretty sick. If they were close to or as long as the LW, I'd get a set.

I'm not against them... but from what I've seen the nod right now goes towards LW.

Keep the research going... thanks


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## Scout 24 (Dec 14, 2008)

I've used my buddies LW's and they were fine but after I bought the Muddy's I was glad I did. I really liked getting rid of that noisy buckle and in addition to being totally silent, the Muddy's take less than a minute a stick to put up. Wrap it through the cam lock and two half hitches and your done.They are even quicker to take down. When you pull down on them they really lock onto the tree securely. I can get 17' with 4 if I max out the spacing of sticks and stand (measured with my pullup rope to the bottom of the stand and 28" between sticks). I prefer 18-20' so I bought an extra stick (at $40) but will try to get used to 17'. My biggest compaint with the Muddys is they are heavy, my 5 sticks weigh 13 pounds. As I carry them in every time I hunt the whole thing is as heavy as a climber, which I was trying to get away from. Other than the weight I must admit I like them more with every use. They are extremely well made.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

It took me a little bit to figure out the best way to wrap the ropes on the Muddy sticks. If you look closely at the piece that goes into the top end plug there is a groove in it. So I went from where the rope attaches to the stick up and place it in that groove. Then if you leave the steps out you can go down to the bottom of the stick and then back up to the cam locks. Works pretty slick. Also something else that was pretty slick about the Muddy sticks. They have a plastic buckle strap that you cinch them together after you have them nestled together. It attaches with a snap and there is a snap on each stick. So if you get in a hurry and don't put the one with the cinching strap on bottom you can just unsnap it and snap it on the bottom stick. The LW sticks used velcro to cinch the sticks together and it didn't last very long and if you were in a hurry you might forget to put the one with the velcro on bottom. If so you had to take them back apart to get it on the bottom. 

As far as needing 5 Muddy's to get up higher than 14 - 15' and 4 LW's you are correct. But remember the Muddy's come 4 to a package and the LW's come three so either way you will have to buy one more stick. Also consider I am only 5'8" and I didn't space them as far apart as I could have. I probably could have stretched another 1' out of both of them.

The steps coming off both sides is really, really nice when you are at the top hanging your stand. You are much more balanced with both feet at the same level like you are with the Muddy's than having one foot at one level and the other foot at another level with the LW's.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

ttt for those who are interested.


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## Hammer0419 (Nov 21, 2005)

I was all set to purchase the 4 pack of Lone Wolf stick but now I am contemplating the Muddys???


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## pink06 (Jul 19, 2009)

Luv my Muddy's. Very quick to mount and take down and very quiet.


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

I got the Muddy sticks and got five of them as I wanted to be able to get a little higher.
How big a diameter of the tree that Muddy and Lonewolf can go? Muddy has six feet of rope what does LW have? 
Before hunting season come around I was testing out trees and found some it won't take if diameter is too big.
And how do u carry Muddy? (without the hang on stand)


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## Tax Lawyer (Feb 5, 2003)

Nice comparison. Very informative. :darkbeer:


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## CamG (Jul 26, 2007)

I have both...for me the Muddy system is far superior to the LW. The cam lock system is the best thing I've ever used!


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Muddy's look interesting but the length is what kills them and will keep them from gaining widespread popularity. Not sure why Muddy didn't get this one right?

Your comparison was interesting but not terribly valid as few only use 3 LW sticks. You simply can't get high enough. I've always used 4 sticks. To get the same height with Muddy you'd need 5 of their sticks and you'd still come up a bit short. And can you imagine trying to stack 5 or 6 of those heavy Muddy sticks on the back of a stand. You'd tip over backwards!

I think I'll stick to my LW sticks for now - and hope that Muddy redesigns their sticks to be more functional in length (I do like the other features).


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## Stanley (Jan 18, 2005)

Great review, appreciate the effort.


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## B-G-K (Sep 19, 2009)

Thanks for all the pics and work u did, I will be keeping this in mind. Im going to be setting up my hang on permanently on private property, So I'm kind of leaning towards the muddy I think theyd make a better permanent method.


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## Jose Boudreaux (Oct 18, 2003)

I'll be going with 5 muddy sticks....thanks man...JB


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## TTNuge (Aug 21, 2009)

So essentially both the LW and the Muddy sticks weigh ~2.5 pounds each. So to get the same height it would take 4 LW sticks at 10#s or 5 Muddy Sticks at 12.5#s. I don't see the extra 2.5#s causing me to tip over, I don't like that they will stick out further from my back but I do like the fact that they are more maneuverable and flexible.

I think the cam-lock system with the rope being total silent along with the steps being on both sides are big pluses and I'll agree that the times you need to have steps on both sides will not be too often but when it is needed it will be nice to have. It's definitely nice to be able to stand on the top of the last stick with both feet level while preparing to step into the stand and adjusting my safety belt most of all. 

Glad with my choice in the Muddys as I'm sure those with the LW ones are happy as well. Both have a solid product.


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## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

Bowfreak said:


> I have owned the LW sticks for a couple of years now and loved them up to this point.
> 
> A few things I didn't like about the LW was the step only coming off one side and the metal buckle never failed to hit something and make some noise I was trying to avoid when putting them up or taking them down.
> 
> ...


Never had any metal clank with my LW sticks? What you can do, is get a similar rope and apply it to the LW sticks. I think the point is moot between the two, and I think the huge advantage is that it takes less steps to get to essentially the same height. That is why I would choose the LW sticks. I also like one step per side, I don't need two steps.

JMO though.


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## meyerske (Dec 26, 2004)

Sounds to me like the ultimate setup would be 4 LW sticks with a Muddy at the very top. Mix and match.


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## wvarchery (Aug 11, 2008)

Just a question for anyone reading this thread and wishing to comment: How many of you carry a couple of screw in steps to use at ground level where it is fairly easy to screw them into the tree (since you are not hanging on cranking in steps), then placing the sticks on the tree as you go up? Seems to me a couple of steps in the pack are compact and do not add very much weight versus carrying an additional climbing stick and it will get you several feet higher. Or would you just rather carry an additional climbing stick?


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## gzg38b (Jun 12, 2006)

wvarchery said:


> Just a question for anyone reading this thread and wishing to comment: How many of you carry a couple of screw in steps to use at ground level where it is fairly easy to screw them into the tree (since you are not hanging on cranking in steps), then placing the sticks on the tree as you go up? Seems to me a couple of steps in the pack are compact and do not add very much weight versus carrying an additional climbing stick and it will get you several feet higher. Or would you just rather carry an additional climbing stick?


This is exactly what I do. Then you can get to 20 feet with 3 LW sticks. For public land use two Ameristep strap on steps at the bottom then start the sticks.


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## johnnyv917 (Jul 5, 2009)

wvarchery said:


> Just a question for anyone reading this thread and wishing to comment: How many of you carry a couple of screw in steps to use at ground level where it is fairly easy to screw them into the tree (since you are not hanging on cranking in steps), then placing the sticks on the tree as you go up? Seems to me a couple of steps in the pack are compact and do not add very much weight versus carrying an additional climbing stick and it will get you several feet higher. Or would you just rather carry an additional climbing stick?


 great call with screw in steps:darkbeer:


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

The Muddys are a great stick for guys that hunt low. They are just too short. I use 6 Lone Wolf sticks, and am 6'3" with a 35" inseam, and I obviously like to get up high. I made my LW sticks 1 1/2 lbs lighter, and added 3' of length by going with ZA206's Utilty Constriction ropes he sells on AT here. I have the silent rope sytem, and nice long sticks. I have the ultimate climbing sticks imo. ZA206 sticks


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

johnnyv917 said:


> great call with screw in steps:darkbeer:


I hunt public land where screw steps are not allowed and the private ground I hunt, screw steps are not to be placed in trees either.


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## bowhuntnsteve (Jul 1, 2006)

now I will exclude myself because I don't use these & I am a ground hunter but thought it was an interesting read & details. 
Whats the price difference between the 2 & the difference of buying an extra rung?


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

Predator,
Your comment "Your comparison was interesting but not terribly valid as few only use 3 LW sticks. You simply can't get high enough. I've always used 4 sticks. To get the same height with Muddy you'd need 5 of their sticks and you'd still come up a bit short. And can you imagine trying to stack 5 or 6 of those heavy Muddy sticks on the back of a stand. You'd tip over backwards!"

Actually I was trying to show what you get when you buy a set of each. You only get 3 LW sticks in a package and 4 Muddy's in a package. So either way you will have to buy more to get higher. And actually I didn't show it but I have a 4th LW stick and I hung it up after I took the picture to see how high it would have been. With the 1 extra stick of LW's and 1 extra stick of the Muddy the LW would have only been at basically the same height. 

Also about the buckles on the LW. I have a replacement set of UCR's for them and are switching them over to get away from the buckles. But again that is another upgrade you can do to the LW but it's an additional cost. And I was wanting to compare apples to apples on what you get straight out of the box on a set of each of them.

I will try to measure the length of the strap on the LW and the rope on the Muddy's so you guys know how big a tree each will go around. I will try to do that this afternoon.

Please understand this was my honest comparison. I don't have stake in either company, I don't know a single person at either company, and I am not on staff for either of them. I was just trying to provide some honest feedback because I have both systems and plan on keeping both of them. I can honestly say if I have both in the truck with me I would pull the Muddy's out first. 

I hope this provides you with useful information. If any of you are in SW Missouri and want to try both just email me. Or if you are in the Wilson, KS area I will be hunting out there from mid October until I get something and would be glad to meet up with you so you can try both to figure out which one you like better.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

They both run around $130 for 3 LW sticks or 4 Muddy sticks.

Like mentioned before you can upgrade your LW to the UCR straps but if I remember right they were around $10 - $12 per rope to get away from the buckle. I will also tell you the UCR's are a little tricky to loosen and tighten. The Muddy system rope lock system blows the buckle or the UCR's away.


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## phade (Feb 2, 2008)

Very good read. Thank you for doing this, I found it very informative.


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

Excellent comparison.
You forgot to mention that the Muddy sticks are also _LUCKY _:wink:
I hunted with them 3x this fall and have filled three tags :mg:
... or maybe it's the one LW stick that I use as the first stick on the tree 

Regardless, I am very happy with the Muddy sticks and I can get high enough with those 4 and a single LW to utterly freak out my camerawoman (wife), rendering her motionless, clutching the tree and unable to film anything :sad:


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

phade said:


> Very good read. Thank you for doing this, I found it very informative.


Yes...I already knew the math and am very familiar with both brands....but great to see you post for those that know little about either. Also, the UCR's aren't tricky imo, but do require 2 hands to tighten, and only one to loosen. I use a Linesmans belt(as everyone should) when installing sticks.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

*More information*

I just got back inside from testing how big a tree each of them could go around. The LW will go around a tree up to 65". The Muddy sticks will go around a tree up to 68". Not much difference. 

You can buy extension from LW for $5.95 each plus shipping. The extension add 36" to your existing straps.

Not sure Muddy is offering anything yet. But since it only a climbing rope tied with an knot and ran through the side of the step I am sure you could just buy enough climbing rope to replace then entire rope that comes with the steps to any length you needed. Not saying I recommend this or they would but assuming you knew what the original rope was rated at you could make sure you got something as strong if not stronger.


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## shell waster (Jun 19, 2007)

LW are made in the USA, muddy's aren't. I bought LW for that reason.


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## broadhead_djg (Nov 18, 2008)

Nice comparision. Thanks for taking the time.


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## Buckmeister (Dec 19, 2004)

I have the lone wolf sticks and just bought the UCR's, I actually have never used the sticks to hunt with, but have them just in case I want to make a bunch of noise some morning. I also ordered the Muddy sticks, I like the looks of that cam system, looks a little easier, who knows might even use them this year. I will post my thought on how they both compare in a back yard test.


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## johnboy1 (Dec 12, 2005)

thank you this is the kind of thread that originally got me hooked on archery talk, archers helping archers, not flaming them!


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## slingblade21 (Oct 6, 2009)

Just curious, how do the gorilla sticks compare to these two? Anyone have any experience with them? I am in possibly in the market for some lightweight sticks and am currently undecided between the 3.


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## HunterDDS (Feb 12, 2008)

B-G-K said:


> Thanks for all the pics and work u did, I will be keeping this in mind. Im going to be setting up my hang on permanently on private property, So I'm kind of leaning towards the muddy I think theyd make a better permanent method.


Quite honestly, if you are buying climbing sticks for permanent use on private property, you are wasting your money. Climbing sticks are awesome *for their intended* purpose, which is hiking in to remote areas with lightweight, compact equipment. But to hang a stand on Grandpa's farm and purchase climbing sticks for that is silly. Other options, such as Ameristep's rapid rails, are MUCH easier to climb, less expensive, and generally better in every way than climbing sticks if you have no intentions of moving your stand constantly.


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## madarchery (May 28, 2003)

I can't see why you would want the muddys.

They only go 6" higher. But the spacing between steps is longer making the cold winter climbs in all the insulated gear that much tougher. Then you ad extra inch between the pcs. Of course it will reach 6" higher. So for the price you get the same height regardless of number of pcs you got. 

So muddy 

you get to go up and down the tree yet an additional time.

You get extra bulk.

And not made USA. To me it matters. And LW is local so I try to support my neighbors.

Only negative I heard was the buckle which is solved with fleece tape or ucrs. And the single step thing which makes no sense to me. Never had a problem and if there was I take the toe and flip it to the otherside.


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## djmaxwe (Nov 27, 2005)

I like the Muddy's. I am also about 60 mile from their warehouse so if I need something I can get it quick. Plus my mom lives about 5 minates from the wareehouse. That is nice.


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## Limb Chicken (Dec 10, 2004)

> Quite honestly, if you are buying climbing sticks for permanent use on private property, you are wasting your money. Climbing sticks are awesome *for their intended* purpose, which is hiking in to remote areas with lightweight, compact equipment. But to hang a stand on Grandpa's farm and purchase climbing sticks for that is silly. Other options, such as Ameristep's rapid rails, are MUCH easier to climb, less expensive, and generally better in every way than climbing sticks if you have no intentions of moving your stand constantly.


One thing to consider is you can hang a bunch of stands with 4 sticks and just haul the sticks in to access the stand. Cuts down on visibility of the stand when you are not in it and decreases the chances of it getting stolen. :thumbs_up


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## arrowhawk (Feb 21, 2003)

wvarchery said:


> Just a question for anyone reading this thread and wishing to comment: How many of you carry a couple of screw in steps to use at ground level where it is fairly easy to screw them into the tree (since you are not hanging on cranking in steps), then placing the sticks on the tree as you go up? Seems to me a couple of steps in the pack are compact and do not add very much weight versus carrying an additional climbing stick and it will get you several feet higher. Or would you just rather carry an additional climbing stick?


I carry steps for just that reason. I also will add a step at the top so that when I am hanging the stand I have my two feet even.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

madarchery said:


> I can't see why you would want the muddys.
> 
> They only go 6" higher. But the spacing between steps is longer making the cold winter climbs in all the insulated gear that much tougher. Then you ad extra inch between the pcs. Of course it will reach 6" higher. So for the price you get the same height regardless of number of pcs you got.
> 
> ...


Actually even if you set them at the same distance perfectly you will be a few inches higher with the Muddy. I didn't set every LW 1 closer between steps that's just the way the first one came out. If you don't trust me you can just add the dimensions up. But again it's only a few inches. What I was trying to do is debunk the idea that the Muddy's are smaller and I won't get at high with them as the LW sticks. Which I show that what you get in one package (3 - LW and 4 Muddy sticks) you basically get to the same height. Also the difference between steps is 15" versus 18" and 18" isn't much of a stretch even for a short guy like me. 

As far as bulk, that could go either way. The Muddy's do stick up a little higher since there is one more stick but are 12" shorter so they don't hang out past the bottom or top of your stand. I would call that a wash.

Made in the US then yes the LW wins that one.

LW's are lighter than the Muddy's by about 2 lbs if I remember correctly

The buckle on LW's versus the rope system on the Muddy's is a no contest. Again I love my LW stuff, I have 4 of the sticks and two of their stands. Great product won't sell or trade them ever. But heads up the rope system wins. And since it's faster than the buckle I would bet you could make the extra trip down the tree and back up. Or watch how the guy on youtube takes all his sticks up as he goes and you don't even have to come back down.

I will say this again I am not bashing LW or trying to tell you what to buy. Since I have both I am in a position to give an honest review of them to help you make a decision based upon all the information I can provide.


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

:thumbs_up

Great comparison. I've been waiting for someone to do a real-deal comparison, thank! Also... I like the looks of the Muddy's rope attachment system. I looks handy b/c the mechanism is directly in front of you vs. off to the side like on the LW cam buckle straps or even my UCR's.:beer:

*Now, I will add one comment about the spacing between steps: *I know that the 3" difference (15" on the LW's and 18" on the Muddy's) doesn't sound like much, but it IS significant for ALOT of people. This is especially true in the winter when you are trying to get up a climbing stick with heavy insulated pants/bibs on. The pants and bibs will seriously decrease your range of motion and will likely hinder you from making an 18" step. 15" is pretty "safe"... 18" WILL be problems for SOME people, count on it. I studied this when I was designing my climbing sticks. As it turns out, I made my prototypes at 15" step to step spacing like the Lone Wolf ones. 

-ZA





Bowfreak said:


> Actually even if you set them at the same distance perfectly you will be a few inches higher with the Muddy. I didn't set every LW 1 closer between steps that's just the way the first one came out. If you don't trust me you can just add the dimensions up. But again it's only a few inches. What I was trying to do is debunk the idea that the Muddy's are smaller and I won't get at high with them as the LW sticks. Which I show that what you get in one package (3 - LW and 4 Muddy sticks) you basically get to the same height. Also the difference between steps is 15" versus 18" and 18" isn't much of a stretch even for a short guy like me.
> 
> As far as bulk, that could go either way. The Muddy's do stick up a little higher since there is one more stick but are 12" shorter so they don't hang out past the bottom or top of your stand. I would call that a wash.
> 
> ...


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

""Made in America"" that's what I missed.....


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## JustRace (Oct 18, 2006)

shell waster said:


> LW are made in the USA, muddy's aren't. I bought LW for that reason.


Same here. I will not consider something else if they are the same price and not made in the USA.


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## chasemukluk (Jun 10, 2008)

Great Review of the products sold "AS IS". I think it was very honest and helpful to many people. I just bought the LW sticks about a week ago and used them this weekend. I really liked them even with the buckle. 

I agree with the Made in America statements. If they are the same price I would by the American made as well. Better yet, thet are made in Wisconsin, so I definately needed to give them a shot.


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

I got Muddy's and noticed the parts being too sharp on the corners and called about that and asked if I can break them into softer corners. Got an "ok" for that and did it. 
I wonder if anyone who got the Muddys got the same thing sharp parts?


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## stinky1 (Feb 20, 2003)

how well do the muddy sticks stack on the lone wolf stand? Been thinking about getting a set but like my hang on too much to dump it for a muddy stand just to stack new sticks on.


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

How about the noise that others are reporting on the Muddy sticks when all of your weight is placed on the top step? I have read about this loud noise on another forum. Are you Muddy stick users having this noise issue too? My Lone Wolfs are quiet and made in Good Ole USA.


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## ks_bow_hunter (Sep 4, 2008)

My biggest problem with muddy is that you would need 6 sticks to get in the 16-18 feet range. I can achive that height with 4 LW sticks. You forgot to mention the the weight of the 3 LW's is only 7.5 lbs. The other problem is the muddys are very bulkly. For guys that are wanting to get in and out easily and quicker LW is the way to go. It takes longer to put up 6 muddys than it does 4 LW.


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## TTNuge (Aug 21, 2009)

HCH said:


> How about the noise that others are reporting on the Muddy sticks when all of your weight is placed on the top step? I have read about this loud noise on another forum. Are you Muddy stick users having this noise issue too? My Lone Wolfs are quiet and made in Good Ole USA.


Interesting, I don't recall any noise but I'll definitely have to check that out the next time I use them. Found a couple nice climbing trees so my TreeWalker has been getting a lot more use than my Climbing Sticks.




ks_bow_hunter said:


> My biggest problem with muddy is that you would need 6 sticks to get in the 16-18 feet range. I can achive that height with 4 LW sticks. You forgot to mention the the weight of the 3 LW's is only 7.5 lbs. The other problem is the muddys are very bulkly. For guys that are wanting to get in and out easily and quicker LW is the way to go. It takes longer to put up 6 muddys than it does 4 LW.


Considering that 4 Muddy sticks went to 13'6" and 3 LW sticks went to 13' in his testing I don't see needing 6 Muddy sticks to get to the same height as 4 LW sticks. I would guess that 4 LWs are probably able to get you about 6" higher than 5 Muddy sticks, maybe a foot but definitely within your 2 foot window. 

Weight wise the advantage would go to the LW sticks by a couple pounds max in that configuration I imagine. 

I don't consider the Muddy sticks bulky at all when strapped to the back of my stand so I consider that a non-issue. I would imagine a lot depends on how you strap them to the stand and what type of stand you have. I like the shorter length as they just seem to fit to my stand better when strapped in tight. 

Speed wise I've never used the LW sticks in the field but the rope attachments on the Muddys are so quick I would say it's a wash even with having to attach one additional stick. Again a lot depends on how you use them, if you go back down for more sticks, carry them up as you go, etc.


As you can tell a lot is just going to boil down to personal preference and I don't think a guy can go wrong either way. If I had bought the LW sticks instead I'm sure I would be just as happy. It's good to have choices. 

My biggest selling point on the Muddy's now that I didn't take into consideration really before my purchase is that it is really nice to have the nice wide step that is created by having steps go off each side of the stick. It's not that big of a deal for climbing but I really like it when I get to the top, I can keep my feet even, lean back on my linesman's belt and can stand there for as long as it takes in total comfort. I think maybe the best option for a guy who needs a lot of sticks is to use 3-4 LW sticks and then 1 Muddy at the top just for that reason alone. It would be ideal if it wasn't for the logistics of how to stack/strap em for the carry in to the woods.


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## cetorP (Nov 7, 2003)

I think a hybrid would be ideal- put the rope/cam system and top step from a muddy stick on a set of lone wolfs- and I would be satisfied...

Seriously though- it looked like the v bracket on the muddy sticks are in a fixed position. I noticed about 1/2 the time the v bracket on my LW sticks have spun to a degree to comensate for uneven surfaces on the tree.

Can any of you guys with muddy sticks say if this is effecting perf. one way or the other.

Thanks Shannon- great review.


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## rootdoc (Jul 11, 2004)

Great work! Thanks for posting this!
I do like the idea of the having steps on both sides but being that i already purchased the LWs i am stuck on that end. I actually have 4 LWs and recently purchased a guerilla step as well so i use 5 when i want to get up really high. I too purchased the utility ropes as HCH was mentioning that are sold here. 
They are now super quiet and quick to install.


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

just recently tried my buddy's muddy set up, and liked it, but after demoing the lw alpha lock on withthe lone wolf sticks i bought the lone wolf. i am very happy with it. killer set up imo. something really great woulkd have to come along to beat that set up.


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## Baybuzzard (Aug 3, 2008)

I have both brands. Was a necessity that I go to the Muddy's this year due to an arthritic knee I can no longer step up with that leg...and the steps off both sides allow me to climb with my good leg. It's also nice that you can stand at the same level with both legs while hanging your sticks.

The cam/rope system on the Muddys is far better than Lone Wolfs system. If you aren't careful about keeping the strap on the Lone Wolfs straight it can twist in the buckle and jam up. I was very impressed with how easy the Muddys set up.

As far as weight is concerned...Lone Wolf wins that one...the Muddys are heavier.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

As far as stacking Muddy sticks on the LW stand it worked for me in the photo on the Assault. Since they both have the same size main tube on the stand I would say it would work with all of them.

As far as needing 6 Muddy's to get to the 16' and only 4 LW, you wont. My photo shows 4 Muddy sticks and 3 LW getting to the 13' range. With the 4th LW and 5th Muddy you would end up in the 16' range on both with the LW being just a few inches higher. Again, you can just take the dimension I showed for the distance between steps and calculate it out if you are in doubt. 

I really didn't notice any more noise with one versus the other. It may have just been the tree you were in at the time. If you have some really big loose bark tree when you first step on either one and they bite down it may crunch the bark a little. 

I will say, I would prefer the Muddy legs would pivot like the LW. I have already made that suggestion to them. I may just take the legs off and grind that flange off that keeps them from pivoting and then add a plastic washer so it can pivot. I am not suggesting this is recommended or you should try it (don't want someone turning me in).

The two selling points for the Muddy are the step coming off both sides. This make standing at the top and hanging your stand much more comfortable. And coming down at night there is twice as much step to hit when you are going between sticks. The second selling point is the rope attachment which is pretty slick if you haven't had a chance to try it.

The two selling points for the LW are the weight factor and they are made in the US. 

Again they both make a great product so just use this to make your own decision as to which would work better. 

I personally like both and will keep both. There are things on both that could be better and things on both that are better than the other system. Just pick which one you think would have the things you would benefit from. 

Good luck to everyone and have a great season.


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## lavazhole (Jul 30, 2005)

I see how they attach to the tree and then buckle through but how is the rope dead ended on the stick? 

How is the end that you don't wrap around the tree attached?

Can you convert your lone wolf steps over to the muddy type of fastener?

Those cleats are inexpensive...


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

If you go back and look at post #9 closely you will see that they drill a hole in the side of the Muddy stick and then insert the rope through the hole and tie a knot.

I am not sure how you could convert the LW over. They are made of a thinner aluminum so I would not recommend drilling a hole in the side of them.


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## Baybuzzard (Aug 3, 2008)

> Can you convert your lone wolf steps over to the muddy type of fastener?


I thought about converting my Lone Wolf sticks to this system, and I'm positive you can figger a way to do it, but those cam cleats ain't cheap...about 20 to 25 bucks apiece from boating stores that carry sailboat hardware. On top of that you'll have to find some rock-climbing/life-line grade rope to use. Regular braid nylon or polydacron will probably stretch too much.


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

Sold my muddy's got LW's today...havent used on a tree yet but heres why.

Didnt like that lil slip with the rope.....I compared it to the assassin stand with only the strap before folding the platform down maybe 1/4" slip. was getting 2-6 inch with the muddy stick. I can get the strap tighter!

Id rather do 4 than 5, or 3 than 4, you win all the way around with the 32" stick.

2.5 wieght loss

made USA!

yall look at my rigg-itt thread think gonna be nice, any sugestions you see?

BOWFREAK, NICE THREAD MAN!:thumbs_up


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

I will buy in America when ever I can, but I want the best 1st. That is why I use Lone Wolf. With that, I never ever thought that the LW straps were too slow, nor do I feel my UCR's are that I replaced them with. I get a kick out of guys that say that the Muddy rope system is VAST or a HUGE improvment over the LW straps. I simply went with the UCRs to lighten my load, extend my length, and get rid of any metal that the LW buckle offered. I always use a linesmans belt(as anyone should when installing sticks) so no matter whether one uses a strap, UCR, or a Muddy system...they are all easy to use, and one over the other is unmeasurable(except in seconds and not minutes) in real time in a hunting situation. 

I am 6'3...35 inch inseam, and I always use 6 LW sticks to reach my desired height of 25-30 ft. I think people exaggerate when they say that 4 LW sticks get them up 20' easy. Sounds unsafe to me, unless a limb is used somewhere in between the sticks as a step. I think people exaggerate how high they are. I use 6 sticks 99% of the time and estimate my height by my 30' pull up rope to estimate how high I am. I also put one foot on the top LW peg and my 2nd foot on the next one down while installing my stand. You are supposed to step down on a stand, so my top step is usually even or so with my platform to my Lone Wolf Alpha. The top step then works awesome to hang something on. I have never felt the need to have both of my feet standing on the same peg.


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

HCH, ucr's like chinese hundcuffs? Think thats what was on my old loggy steps one time?


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

I see your pick on page one do you even have to tie a not?


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

Nyles said:


> HCH, ucr's like chinese hundcuffs? Think thats what was on my old loggy steps one time?


Yea, ZA206 sells them on here. They are 3 ft longer than a standard LW strap and they weigh 1 1/2 lbs less than 6 straps weigh.


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

Nyles said:


> I see your pick on page one do you even have to tie a not?


No..loop on each end, just place around tree, hook other loop on versa button, cinch up.


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

HCH said:


> No..loop on each end, just place around tree, hook other loop on versa button, cinch up.


Might try them out next year my sticks brand new .......gotta use em a lil!


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## brandon1008 (Oct 24, 2007)

for all you "extra stick" guys consider this... 

take 2 screw in tree steps and screw them in as high up off the ground at the bottom of the tree.... before you use your climbing sticks. 
your stand will be atleast 18-19ft with both gomuddy and lw 4 vs. 3 sticks.

ive had both sets, and i like the muddys the best. the rope system is enough for any person to switch... yes it is that much better than cam buckles... tons better!, and i use a treesaddle so all i carry is my 4 muddy sticks.

thanks for the thread, good research.


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

HCH said:


> No..loop on each end, just place around tree, hook other loop on versa button, cinch up.


Yup.... that's all there is to it!:wink:

-ZA


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

Bowfreak said:


> I will say, I would prefer the Muddy legs would pivot like the LW. I have already made that suggestion to them. I may just take the legs off and grind that flange off that keeps them from pivoting and then add a plastic washer so it can pivot. I am not suggesting this is recommended or you should try it (don't want someone turning me in).


I agree with this and have thought of doing the same thing ... but that little flange is what helps stack the sticks and I wonder if removing it would cause any other problem :dontknow:


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

screw in steps are great but I got 2 problems with em

1 illegal in most places I hunt(public fed land)

2 can be a pian on SOME trees



But may add a couple strap ons to the arsenal!

:thumbs_up


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## mtsrunner (Oct 20, 2007)

*yup!*



cetorP said:


> I think a hybrid would be ideal- put the rope/cam system and top step from a muddy stick on a set of lone wolfs- and I would be satisfied...
> 
> Seriously though- it looked like the v bracket on the muddy sticks are in a fixed position. I noticed about 1/2 the time the v bracket on my LW sticks have spun to a degree to comensate for uneven surfaces on the tree.
> 
> ...


I agree with the hybrid concept completely. I have 4 Lone Wolf and 1 muddy stick. My plan was to always use the muddy at the top so it would serve as a mini-platform for my tree saddle. However, the top step 'creaks' when I stand on it! I love the rope/cam system on the muddy, though. Wish LW would do this. 
Maybe I need to try some UCRs, but I have used Chinese handcuffs before (Loggy Bayou climber) and don't think they would be as sweet as the muddy system. Anyone with experience with both???


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

I had the buckles on my LW and switched over to the UCR's. The main reasons to switch was to get rid of the metal buckle and to save weight. If I remember correctly it was close to a pound of weight saved on a set of 4 LW sticks to convert over to the UCR's. I also had them made at 7' long so I gained on the size of the tree I could hang them on. 

Again, I would like to say I am not trying to make you get rid of what you have to buy the other, just giving information if you were thinking about buying a set of good sticks, which applies to both brands.

For those of you who have only used one or the other, please keep an open mind and tell us what you like about the ones you have. Saying what you have is the best when you haven't used the other brand isn't being objective, which I was trying to do with this post.

Since I have used my buckled LW sticks for a couple of years, switched the LW over to the UCR's, and used the Muddy rope system, I can honestly say with an open mind, I like the rope system on the Muddy best. But if you have the LW already and want to lighten the load and quite the noise a little then upgrade to the UCR's. They are a little tricky to work until you have used them a couple of times, but after a couple of times you get the hang of it.


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## NHBOONER (Aug 2, 2007)

Nyles said:


> screw in steps are great but I got 2 problems with e
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:mg::mg::mg::mg::mg::


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## brino (Mar 11, 2005)

B-G-K said:


> Thanks for all the pics and work u did, I will be keeping this in mind. Im going to be setting up my hang on permanently on private property, So I'm kind of leaning towards the muddy I think theyd make a better permanent method.


Wouldn't a $40 20' stick ladder be better for this. You could buy 4 sets for the price of one Muddy set...
The whole purpose of LW and Muddy sticks is to be mobile.


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

Bowfreak said:


> I will say, I would prefer the Muddy legs would pivot like the LW. I have already made that suggestion to them. I may just take the legs off and grind that flange off that keeps them from pivoting and then add a plastic washer so it can pivot. I am not suggesting this is recommended or you should try it (don't want someone turning me in).


Shannon - I did this today. Took me about 45 min and that's with the re-painting of the metal.
Hopefully I'll have them out in the woods tomorrow, so I should be able to give a report about if it's an improvement...


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## Top Gauge (Sep 6, 2009)

Brandon1008,

I was just wondering how the Muddy sticks would work for the Tree Saddle. Can you post your impressions on how these sticks are with the saddle?

Thanks in advance,


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## broadhead_djg (Nov 18, 2008)

Great. I use them with my saddle and my lonewolf sticks have not seen the woods this year.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

ks_kiwi said:


> Shannon - I did this today. Took me about 45 min and that's with the re-painting of the metal.
> Hopefully I'll have them out in the woods tomorrow, so I should be able to give a report about if it's an improvement...


Please take some photos and tell us how they worked.


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

Top Gauge said:


> Brandon1008,
> 
> I was just wondering how the Muddy sticks would work for the Tree Saddle. Can you post your impressions on how these sticks are with the saddle?
> 
> Thanks in advance,


You're asking the same question that I would want know too. I did like to know too as I do have the Saddle and Muddy.


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

What boots do u guys use with the climbing sticks? Did anyone noticed the sharpe corners on the muddy sticks as they did "bite" my boots and if using it too much it wud chew up the bottoms.....
I did make the edge softer to the hands by filing off the sharp parts.


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

Bowfreak said:


> Please take some photos and tell us how they worked.


OK here are some pics - I used the modified sticks tonite in a tree that I had used them before the mod.
IMHO they bite the tree much more solidly and slip down the tree less distance when you "set" them v's how they behaved before the mod. I guess I should have just changed a couple of them first and tested them against each other :dontknow:.

Personally, I'd give this mod a big thumbs up :thumbs_up but it probably voids a warranty and YMMV


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## NC stringpuller (Jan 26, 2007)

Nice Muddy modification! :thumbs_up
I just tried mine for the 1st time today, and that was my main gripe... wish they would pivot for a better bite! (sometimes 1 of the 4 contact points had very little contact) You bet'cher bottom dollar I'll be doing the same to mine as soon as I can get my hands on a bandsaw! (it'll leave as much metal as possible) :darkbeer:


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

OK - I've used these modified sticks a couple more times since that first test and there is no question in my mind that with the pivoting 'feet', the sticks bite into the tree both more quickly and also much more solidly than when the feet were fixed. :thumbs_up 
It probably shaved a few ounces in weight off too :wink:

I'll send Muddy a link to this thread and suggest that if it doesn't violate any LW patents, they should really consider it...


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

ks_kiwi said:


> OK - I've used these modified sticks a couple more times since that first test and there is no question in my mind that with the pivoting 'feet', the sticks bite into the tree both more quickly and also much more solidly than when the feet were fixed. :thumbs_up
> It probably shaved a few ounces in weight off too :wink:
> 
> I'll send Muddy a link to this thread and suggest that if it doesn't violate any LW patents, they should really consider it...


I wonder if u only did one instead of two on the same bar would it work? I had a feeling that leaving one "fixed" and the other one would float and follow the shape of the tree?


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

ks_kiwi said:


> I'll send Muddy a link to this thread and suggest that if it doesn't violate any LW patents, they should really consider it...


I'm pretty sure that it WOULD violate Andre's patent on the sticks, as the pivoting foot bracket was part of his claims, and this design (with the sawed off tabs) is exactly the same.

-ZA


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## madarchery (May 28, 2003)

Not sure on the stick patent. But they are a local manufacturer here. And they stated next year the cast platform patent runs out and they hinted there will be a new breed of stands by many others that will be based on the style.

I think thats why you have seen the great brand hype the last few years. Ya gotta make a name for yourself before your copied and forgotten. But some straped for cash may just want to wait a year. 

I do not know any more then what was stated in the article.


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## xwinderx (Aug 8, 2009)

I really like that rope attach mechanism on the muddys.
I was hanging some ameristep rapid rails and getting the strap fastened and tight and at the right level was a PITA. Especially when higher up.

May have to get a set to use on the higher parts of the climb.

Anyone know what is the largest diameter tree they work on?
The documentation only states a minimum size.


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

ZA206 said:


> I'm pretty sure that it WOULD violate Andre's patent on the sticks, as *the pivoting foot bracket was part of his claims*, and this design (with the sawed off tabs) is exactly the same.
> 
> -ZA


OK - that's pretty clear cut then.
Thanks for the info. After trying it both ways, I can see why his design is so effective. :thumbs_up


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## hjort jagare (Nov 19, 2008)

madarchery said:


> Not sure on the stick patent. But they are a local manufacturer here. And they stated next year the cast platform patent runs out and they hinted there will be a new breed of stands by many others that will be based on the style.
> 
> I think thats why you have seen the great brand hype the last few years. Ya gotta make a name for yourself before your copied and forgotten. But some straped for cash may just want to wait a year.
> 
> I do not know any more then what was stated in the article.


Im sure the cast design will be copied and built by Ameristep, Muddy or Gorilla in China with a massive savings to the consumer of maybe 10.00.:thumbs_do Did you ever think we were(straped for cash) because all our jobs are shipped over seas?:confused2:


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## madarchery (May 28, 2003)

Not saying I like the idea. I own lonewolf because there top notch and there locally built. I support them. But I do think the price for the stands may be a little high. They have been in production for a while. I would think they should have recouped the r and d and with the larger production they have now it should drop the price. But they continue to climb in price. Mat'l dropped alot form the past few years. They have increased production. And there design has been fairly consistent. Why is the price climbing?


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## customarrows (Mar 25, 2008)

The people at Muddy decided to on the shorter length of the stick because the greater length a stick gets, the greater chance it has of sliping on the tree. The Muddy sticks were built to the ideal length after their testing. Muddy places a high priority on safety and on quality.


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## broadhead_djg (Nov 18, 2008)

Why would you drop the price. If you have a decent volumne, why not increase margins and realize the profit as materials drop. I would if I owned the business.


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## xwinderx (Aug 8, 2009)

madarchery said:


> Not saying I like the idea. I own lonewolf because there top notch and there locally built. I support them. But I do think the price for the stands may be a little high. They have been in production for a while. I would think they should have recouped the r and d and with the larger production they have now it should drop the price. But they continue to climb in price. Mat'l dropped alot form the past few years. They have increased production. And there design has been fairly consistent. Why is the price climbing?


supply and demand, simple economics.
If they are selling all they make there is ZERO incentive to lower the price.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

xwinderx said:


> I really like that rope attach mechanism on the muddys.
> I was hanging some ameristep rapid rails and getting the strap fastened and tight and at the right level was a PITA. Especially when higher up.
> 
> May have to get a set to use on the higher parts of the climb.
> ...


Check out my post #42 I gave the dimensions that each brand will go around. Thanks


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

madarchery said:


> Why is the price climbing?


Insurance premiums have DEFINATELY GONE UP UP UP! Anyone who makes items that are TMA certified get HAMMERED on liability insurance.ukey: There could be other growing costs as well.... you never know.

Then again, they could just be upping the price for the sake of higher margins, but I'd think that lowering their costs would have the same effect and not generate a negative sentiment. Then again, they may have been under priced from the get go... (I doubt it though).

-ZA


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

Top Gauge said:


> Brandon1008,
> 
> I was just wondering how the Muddy sticks would work for the Tree Saddle. Can you post your impressions on how these sticks are with the saddle?
> 
> Thanks in advance,



I have been using one older Gorilla aluminum (very similar to a LW) with a ZA rope and 4 Muddy's and absolutely love this setup with a Tree Saddle. I can actually be setup in less then 10 minutes and never have to make trips down and up. What I do at the top is use 2 Muddy's at the same height for my feet and center my hanging strap between the spread on the top 2 Muddy's. I love the double steps on top to manuever around the tree nicely. I've been hiding my sticks close to my tree (Lots of leaves around) and I use a Primos bow sling on my bow and swing it around to my back so I don't even have to pull it up. I feel the Muddy's are super easy to hang because you stand on the lower 2 pegs at the same time to hang the next one and on up you go. I then hang one top Muddy to the left and one to the right and can get shots all the way around the tree! I'll probably do the swivel mod. I'm not as high as some like to get but with a Saddle and hunting the back side of a tree I like the angles I get on my shots better.


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## Akira4713 (Dec 1, 2008)

has anyone tried if the muddy sticks nest with the lone wolf sticks when stacked togeter?. I have four lone wolf sticks and also (like the poster above) hunt of the tree saddle. I want to use a muddy stick as my top stick and support for my feet when I am in the saddle. This would be super easy to setup, but need to know if the muddy sticks will stack with the lone wolf sticks to pack in?


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

Bowtechie,
I was thinking the same thing by putting Muddy's on each side of the tree for the tree saddle. I did email Mike Maddison of Muddy's about seeing if they can make those sticks in short ones at maybe eight inches tall that I could put them around the tree for steps.....


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

Bluegillman said:


> Bowtechie,
> I was thinking the same thing by putting Muddy's on each side of the tree for the tree saddle. I did email Mike Maddison of Muddy's about seeing if they can make those sticks in short ones at maybe eight inches tall that I could put them around the tree for steps.....


Now that would be the ultimate. I'm telling you hunting from a saddle on the top of 2 Muddy's works super nice. Unfortunately the price of a shorter one would probably be the same as the longer ones but I'd still get 2.


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

I went with the LW's after selling my Muddy's, they bite the tree better, and 32" beats the 20 Muddy's...this just my opinion...I like the LW's better.

In answer to an above post, the LW strap way better than the rope on the muddy's to me.


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## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

I have the LW stiks and like them. That being said I like my Summit buck steps they best for climbing and setting a stand. I like the ability to have both feet at the same level. I may pick up a Muddy for my top step even thou I ralely use a hang-on for a quick set-up. I use my climbers for that. For extra height I use 3 strap on steps or where feasible I use the bolts from tree hopper.


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## AmishArcher (Feb 6, 2008)

very interesting thread! You guys are gonna make me go buy some of these!


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

AmishArcher said:


> very interesting thread! You guys are gonna make me go buy some of these!


Yeah - I think if I had never found AT, I would have been able to afford a couple of foreign vacations by now...


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## wildroamer (Sep 28, 2009)

*What is the hole for?*

Any idea on the function of that hole on the lower left cleat of each muddy stick?


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## silbowhunter (Nov 29, 2004)

> wildroamer said:
> 
> 
> > Any idea on the function of that hole on the lower left cleat of each muddy stick?




Those guys talking about the need to return to the base of the tree repeatedly to get the next step should check into the Muddy harness with the* "Safeguard Stick Holders"* (accessory).

The Safeguard Stick Holders attach to the Muddy harness each holds one Muddy stick one on each side of the harness.
You can put the first 2 steps on the tree from the ground then climb up and remove the next step from your safety harness hang it on the tree & etc for the last step.

If you notice on the stick the hole located near the step thats where the stick hangs from the Safeguard Stick Holders.

may not change anyones mind about the Muddy sticks just thought I would point it out. 

Does the LW sticks have a similar option ?


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

The way I've been doing with my Muddy's are daisy chaining them together by closing the end of one rope to the partially closed up bottom cleats on one side. After pulling one up a lot of the weight is still on the ground. I then unhook the rope from the pinch point on the cleat and hold that end of the rope in my mouth while I quickly attach the stick. I then move up and do it again. I use a Tree Saddle and you can put one stick on each side of the Saddle where the elastic straps are attached to the saddle. Very quick and quiet if you're careful. I have killed 2 deer this year out of my saddle and with the one 32" Gorilla 3 step and 4 Muddy's using 2 Muddy's at the top to move around the tree is the best setup I've had. That advantage of hiding behind the tree and ability to shoot almost 360 degrees is great.


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## kjrice (Jun 8, 2009)

I use the LW sticks and they kick butt.


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## wildroamer (Sep 28, 2009)

silbowhunter said:


> Those guys talking about the need to return to the base of the tree repeatedly to get the next step should check into the Muddy harness with the* "Safeguard Stick Holders"* (accessory).
> 
> The Safeguard Stick Holders attach to the Muddy harness each holds one Muddy stick one on each side of the harness.
> You can put the first 2 steps on the tree from the ground then climb up and remove the next step from your safety harness hang it on the tree & etc for the last step.
> ...


Thanks, that looks pretty slick.


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

silbowhunter said:


> Those guys talking about the need to return to the base of the tree repeatedly to get the next step should check into the Muddy harness with the* "Safeguard Stick Holders"* (accessory).
> 
> The Safeguard Stick Holders attach to the Muddy harness each holds one Muddy stick one on each side of the harness.
> You can put the first 2 steps on the tree from the ground then climb up and remove the next step from your safety harness hang it on the tree & etc for the last step.
> ...


Any pics of that?


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## wildroamer (Sep 28, 2009)

ks_kiwi said:


> Any pics of that?


http://www.gomuddy.com/shopping/Departments/Accessories.aspx


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## BoneShanks (Oct 11, 2010)

*Newb Hunter*

I just started hunting in 2008, I started out with a climber and MAN that thing is super heavy. So I decided on the Lone Wolf alpha and yes I luv it. Now for sticks I bought Muddy's. At first I was a lil bum'd cause I figured I wasted my money cause I bought the sticks FIRST and then the stand, watched the LW video and was like dammit the LW fit perfect in the Alpha. Now last nite I saw this post and I felt a lil better. But today I went out and tried the sticks and the stand and yeah I'm sold on the Muddy's. The dual steps are VERY nice to have. If I have to I will buy a 5th stick. I go up and down in trees when its dark and that alternating step makes me uneasy now that I have been up a tree with the new stand. I just feel that much more secure having both feet planted vs balancing on one in the dark. Muddy's get my vote.:thumbs_up

Btw the Muddy pivot like you guys were discussing.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

Bowfreak,
Kudos for the refreshing quality review of these sticks...


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## IAHNTR (Jun 13, 2007)

Great Thread Guys!!


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## White Wizzard (Sep 1, 2009)

reading later


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

Had a recall on those sticks from Muddy Waters and sent them back for a new set. I like them better now. No sharp corners and those cleats move to fit the tree easier.....


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## rakbowhunter (Jan 7, 2004)

Can anyone post some pics of the new design for the cleats?


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## gagodfrey (Oct 11, 2010)

any Muddy Stick user's have any tips/tweaks you want to let us in on? What is the best way to carry the sticks using the Tree Saddle? I just sling them over my shoulder. I've though about fabricating some kind of framing system that would attach to the shoulder straps of the saddle. Any ideas?


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

I use the cam straps to tighten all five together. Muddy's straps weren't that good to tighten them tight. I just kinda made a loop on two ends of another strap and then flip those loops over the ends of the sticks to be used as a carrying handle. Long enough to fling over my back. 
Speaking of those saddles I have one too so this is the reason I got the sticks, short and simple to pack around. I'm thinking of something for the bow to hang on while in the tree....there are loops on the saddle and might want to make a " S hook" and hook the loop and the other hook to hang the bow onto..... what do u hang you bow onto? I don't like to have to carry too much stuff so simple and easy.....


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## gagodfrey (Oct 11, 2010)

Here's what I use. It's a cannibalized strap from one of my Ameristep strap-on steps that I used to make my Tree Saddle platform. I use some "S" hooks that I cut off of a ratchet strap to hang my bow, quiver, and and calls from. I store the accessory belt in the front cup holder on the accessory pouch that comes with the Tree Saddle (the same pouch that the safety strap is stored in). I strap it right underneath the knot of the safety strap. It works great!


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## Teh Wicked (Jul 30, 2009)

Are the LW stick used in these photos the newer ones that are made in China? Or are they the older models that was made in USA?


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## jkratz (Mar 28, 2007)

Good comparison. I agree that both make a solid product that get the job done. I have used the LW sticks for about 6 years now and have been very happy. I have to admit I usually sit just over 20' and that is with 4 LW sticks. Looking at the Muddy sticks I didn't think I would be anywhere near this height with 5 sticks, maybe I am wrong but that just seemed to be the case when looking at them. As far as the sticks sticking out from your back, I always pack mine in laying on their side, if you have them strapped tight enough they don't move a mm and they barely stick out from the back of the stand. If you are worried about noise you can always place a layer in between. I generally place my jacket in between the sticks and stand to ensure there is no metal to metal contact, but thus far I have never had a problem.

kratz


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

Neat! I could steal your idea! As I have the cam strap almost just like what you picture, I could just add the loop hook on. That can do two things, strap the sticks together then use that same strap as a bow holder....nothing more to be carrying around. I like that!


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## Footballer (Jul 15, 2009)

I like to take 4 or 5 EZ screw in steps with me. I'll scew in a step between each stick and will be able to get much higher without any additional sticks.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

wvarchery said:


> Just a question for anyone reading this thread and wishing to comment: How many of you carry a couple of screw in steps to use at ground level where it is fairly easy to screw them into the tree (since you are not hanging on cranking in steps), then placing the sticks on the tree as you go up? Seems to me a couple of steps in the pack are compact and do not add very much weight versus carrying an additional climbing stick and it will get you several feet higher. Or would you just rather carry an additional climbing stick?


wow. i never even though of that. im going to hang on and sticks route next season and will deffinatly do this. get some of those ameristep strap on ones then 3 or 4 LW sticks.

also does anyone know if that guy on here is still making those ropes for the LW stands? the ones that replace the straps. those looked great and would take care of the metal click


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## empty hull (Jul 18, 2010)

So whats the verdict? After reading this very good thread, I am getting the impression that the 32" Lone Wolf Climbing Sticks get thye nod over Muddys. I am on the fence on this one. Tim


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

I still would go with the Muddy sticks over the LW. Especially after the upgrade on the Muddy's to allow the legs to swivel on the tree like the LW.


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## DMAX-HD (Jan 30, 2005)

Both are pretty decent products. Tough choice.


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

Mix and match? Get one of both? If I see one around maybe I would pick up some of LW long ones.....and use them with the Muddy's...
Just a little thought to get a little higher....


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

What if you throw the Summit sticks into the mix at 2/3 the price?


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

sawtoothscream said:


> wow. i never even though of that. im going to hang on and sticks route next season and will deffinatly do this. get some of those ameristep strap on ones then 3 or 4 LW sticks.
> 
> also does anyone know if that guy on here is still making those ropes for the LW stands? the ones that replace the straps. those looked great and would take care of the metal click


Yes, I still make UCR's.

-ZA


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## TailChaser (Aug 13, 2005)

always wondered how they stretches those figured to say they go up to 20', etc.


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## empty hull (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks, Bowfreak, and everyone else, for the information in this thread. Merry Christmas, Tim


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## empty hull (Jul 18, 2010)

I have a really stupid question. On post #92, do you park the platform of the lock on at the last upper step like the pic, lower right, or is there another step that is not in the pic. I have never used climbing steps and thats why I ask. Thanks, Tim


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## ks_kiwi (Dec 22, 2004)

Not that I would endorse making changes to your sticks and potentially endangering yourself/voiding your warranty..... BUT, has anyone tried swapping the ropes out on their muddy sticks and replacing with longer ones?


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## sn1perii (Oct 22, 2007)




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## sn1perii (Oct 22, 2007)

By the time I replied to the question for Muddy's stick holders, it had already been posted...sorry fellas.

D


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

empty hull said:


> I have a really stupid question. On post #92, do you park the platform of the lock on at the last upper step like the pic, lower right, or is there another step that is not in the pic. I have never used climbing steps and thats why I ask. Thanks, Tim


What I think you are asking is that do the stick when on the tree connect to each other at the top and bottom of each stick? If so these don't, they are independent of each other on the tree. This allows for a lot more flexibility. You won't have to go up the tree in a straight line and can work around limbs etc. This also allows you to stretch out the distance between sticks to what you are comfortable with and allows you to use a limb for a step if it works out that way.


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## Bluegillman (Dec 4, 2006)

sn1perii....Mmmmm I give up...what is it on post #146?


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

Bluegillman said:


> sn1perii....Mmmmm I give up...what is it on post #146?


That attaches to your Muddy harness. If you notice in one leg of each Muddy stick there is a hole. That hole slides over the post in photo #146. That way you can have a stick hanging off your hip on each side of your harness as you are going up the tree and attaching your sticks.


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## empty hull (Jul 18, 2010)

Bowfreak said:


> What I think you are asking is that do the stick when on the tree connect to each other at the top and bottom of each stick? If so these don't, they are independent of each other on the tree. This allows for a lot more flexibility. You won't have to go up the tree in a straight line and can work around limbs etc. This also allows you to stretch out the distance between sticks to what you are comfortable with and allows you to use a limb for a step if it works out that way.


I did some more searching and found that some people place the platform, of their lockon, level with the last step on the climbing stick such as the Muddy or Lone Wolf. Is their a video of someone hanging a lockon off their climbing stick? Would the linemans rope get in the way? Tim


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## empty hull (Jul 18, 2010)

Well I bought the Muddy sticks and I am pleased. I can get 16', as measured, from my platform to the ground using a step that I made. This is with a set of 4 sticks. Very easy to apply and set to the tree. These are the 2010 models and I noticed that the tree brackets do swivel when using them. I did not want the Lone Wolfs because of the problems that people were experiencing with them. I almost bought the 32" Silverback Predator sticks by Gorilla but these do not swivel and I am now glad that I didn't. Bowfreak, thanks for all the footwork that you and others did in this thread. It helped me with my decision on which to buy. Happy hunting, Tim


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

There is a new stick out this year by Leverage that might be worth looking at. 32" like the LW but has the steps coming off both sides like the Muddy. Supposed to be around 2.5 lbs per stick. The only thing I didn't like about them was the strapping system they used.


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## TnScott (Mar 2, 2003)

I'd rather carry fewer LW sticks to go basically the same height . Thats just me though .


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## Ridgerunner7 (Nov 22, 2005)

Bowfreak said:


> There is a new stick out this year by Leverage that might be worth looking at. 32" like the LW but has the steps coming off both sides like the Muddy. Supposed to be around 2.5 lbs per stick. The only thing I didn't like about them was the strapping system they used.


I saw these at the ATA show. If they can get a new strapping system on there they will be sweet.


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

You also have gorilla predator sticks as long as we are listing options. Lone wolf sticks with Utility Constriction Ropes swapped fi
For the stock straps are just the cats meow imo.


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## cloquet (Jan 12, 2004)

meyerske said:


> Sounds to me like the ultimate setup would be 4 LW sticks with a Muddy at the very top. Mix and match.


There we have the right answer. Would be neat to have the Muddy rope locks available cheap enough to put on the LW too.


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## wimbers (Nov 8, 2010)

Looks like Muddys have been recalled...http://www.gomuddy.com/content/recall.aspx


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

That was from last year for the 2010 models. They covered the cost to ship them back to Muddy and sent everyone a brand new set. The new set they upgraded with the swivel cleats which was a big upgrade.


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## gagodfrey (Oct 11, 2010)

How are you guys carrying your Muddy sticks in with you? Has anyone fabricated a back pack system or anything like that? I use a tree saddle and haven't come up with anything brilliant except slinging them over my shoulder.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

I just use a strap and strap them to the stand I am using.


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## gagodfrey (Oct 11, 2010)

that is idea for a stand but I'm using a tree saddle so there's nothing to strap them to. I think some sort of back-pack rig would work really well.


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## WCork (Apr 22, 2010)

check out the lone wolf carrying strap for their sticks. i use it for my muddy sticks and it works great. after watching this video this is how i started climbing. i also use the tree saddle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3clPFGAwB3s


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## alwayslookin (May 28, 2003)

B-G-K said:


> Thanks for all the pics and work u did, I will be keeping this in mind. Im going to be setting up my hang on permanently on private property, So I'm kind of leaning towards the muddy I think theyd make a better permanent method.


I have 11 LW sticks , 4 muddy's and about 18 Gorilla Steel sticks, 3 Gorilla predator sticks, and 11 Ameristep..........we have settled on the Gorilla steels for our permanent sets. They are cheaper, have steps on both sides for safety....and the only trees they are questionable on is really smooth barked trees as they do not "bite" as well. They STINK to carry.....but if I am just setting it and forgetting it......they are great. I think a few other companies make similar steps. The straps are pretty long also. The STEEL ameristeps are good also....for set and forget.....the Non Typical aluminums are too much money and nest/pack like crap.
The LW is best for the mobile hunter...especially in the dark.......IMO the muddy should be a 32" step.....Gorilla predators do not nest as well as the LW or Muddy and the cleats are fixed, so I won't buy any more of them. LW with 4 sticks is still my preferred system.....but I do wish they had steps on both sides.
Great review


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## DXTFREAK (Sep 9, 2008)

Back up!


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## IAHNTR (Jun 13, 2007)

I can't decide and it's driving my nuts.

Muddy:
Pros 
Some say they are quicker, but you have to attach one more
steps on both sides, which could be helpful in some situations
No buckles = Less noise
Don't have to worry is strap is twisted on tree

Cons
Shorter and therefore need 1 more to roughly equal same height
heavier
Not made in USA

LW
Pros
Lighter
Longer = 1 less step to attach
Might be able to cinch tighter to tree with cam buckle
Made in USA

Cons
Buckles not as easy as Muddy system
step on one side (occasional con)
Buckles could make more noise
Some say harder to stack together

Can you really get the LW strap tighter to the tree since you have something to pull against? I don't really know how to explain it. Is there less downward slippage on the LW b/c you can get them tighter?


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## Standbanger (Jun 15, 2010)

Are you all sure that the LoneWolfs are made in the U.S.


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## Liv4Rut (Mar 24, 2006)

LW all the way for me. You can get them rock solid on the tree. I takes about 10 seconds to attach one to the tree. Hold the stick in place with the buckle end of the loop attached. Reach around tree and connect other buckle. Pull tight as you can and then pull straight down on the stick to set it in place. If you pull down it will move down about 3-4 inches which will seat it tight against the tree. It will not kick out from there. 

I guess for me, I want to carry less sticks. You make more noise unpacking them from eachother when they are stacked up then you do when hanging them. If you have more sticks its more noise. Also, why would you need two steps. You only climb one way up the tree. I have never gotten in a situation where I need to have two steps on each side of the tree. Its fairly simple. If you want your top stick to be on the left side of the tree when your at the top, start your bottom stick with bottom step pointing right. 

I have set my LW and sticks up over 250 times in the last 5 years with no issues and highly recommend them.


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## wyetterp (Feb 28, 2008)

Great review! Thanks for sharing.


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## nockedup (Nov 5, 2007)

My set of muddy's are awesome. They are rock solid and quick to setup. 

I use them for my treestands and my saddle.


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## FredGarvin (Aug 24, 2008)

Liv4Rut said:


> If you want your top stick to be on the left side of the tree when your at the top, start your bottom stick with bottom step pointing right


Are you sure?

Peraphs I am wrong --- I'm not very good at algebra. 

But thinking about this (it's like a brain-bending exercise -- heh), if there are 3 steps and I start the bottom step so it is on the right, then the middle will be out to the left, then the TOP step will be out to the right side. Just add 3 more sticks and it works out the same I think.


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## cornfedkiller (Feb 16, 2008)

FredGarvin said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Peraphs I am wrong --- I'm not very good at algebra.
> 
> But thinking about this (it's like a brain-bending exercise -- heh), if there are 3 steps and I start the bottom step so it is on the right, then the middle will be out to the left, then the TOP step will be out to the right side. Just add 3 more sticks and it works out the same I think.


Nope he is right (if you are using 4 sticks..with 3 steps, its opposite)

Left
Right 
Left

Right
Left
Right

Left
Right
Left

Right
Left 
Right


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## FredGarvin (Aug 24, 2008)

Brain-bending fail! Told ya I stink at Algebra!

Edit: wait a sec... did we know how many sticks to use? Cause if we were talkng 3, then I'd be correct! lol.



cornfedkiller said:


> Nope he is right (if you are using 4 sticks..with 3 steps, its opposite)
> 
> Left
> Right
> ...


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## Liv4Rut (Mar 24, 2006)

I now see why Muddy has 2 steps on each side of the stick. To keep people from getting confused!! Just joking.  I was talking about 4 sticks on my set up. You just got to remember every other stick the steps are facing the same way as the first stick. First and 3rd are the same. 2nd and 4th are the same.


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## Dor (Mar 27, 2007)

attach sticks to stand with Kwik-strap.com 2 foot or 3 foot buckle straps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s86FCJoaiEQ


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## BuckeyeRed (Sep 7, 2006)

I have both the LW and Muddy sticks and I prefer the Muddy's for a mobile setup. 

They just go up so quick and easy compared to the LW, for me anyhow. I'm about 5'9 and have what some people would call t-rex arms, so the two steps make life much easier to attach both the sticks and hanging a set without being over extended or off balance. If I was taller, say around 6'2 or better I'd probably use the LW with alot less effort. 

A buddy of mine that I hunt with is about 6'3 and I kid you not I have seen him schimmy up the tree bear style!


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## m_zacco (Aug 3, 2011)

Tttt


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## jlh42581 (Oct 21, 2009)

Anyone who has a problem with a cam buckle metal to metal contact on a lone wolf strap needs to take the advice someone gave on thehuntingbeast. Ive done it myself on all four sticks plus my alpha and while it sucks you really only need to do it every couple of years.

Go to walmart or wherever and get yourself a 1.75 to 2.25 universal 26" inner tube for a bicycle. Cut off 4-6" sections, slide it over the cam buckle. No more metal to metal. I also have my sticks minus the steps wrapped in electrical tape. I did this before I found the cam trick. They make zero noise.


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## Stanley (Jan 18, 2005)

ttt


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## DXTFREAK (Sep 9, 2008)

jlh42581 said:


> Anyone who has a problem with a cam buckle metal to metal contact on a lone wolf strap needs to take the advice someone gave on thehuntingbeast. Ive done it myself on all four sticks plus my alpha and while it sucks you really only need to do it every couple of years.
> 
> Go to walmart or wherever and get yourself a 1.75 to 2.25 universal 26" inner tube for a bicycle. Cut off 4-6" sections, slide it over the cam buckle. No more metal to metal. I also have my sticks minus the steps wrapped in electrical tape. I did this before I found the cam trick. They make zero noise.


What is the cam trick? Are you referring to the tube idea


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## leftyhunter (Mar 6, 2005)

ttt to find latter--thanks for the research!!!


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## jlh42581 (Oct 21, 2009)

DXTFREAK said:


> What is the cam trick? Are you referring to the tube idea


Yes


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## pxt (Oct 27, 2009)

I have both sticks .........muddy and lone wolf and i like the muddy sticks better.


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## gtsum2 (Dec 31, 2008)

the muddy's rope attachment is slick..I like em a lot


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## MWoody (Dec 31, 2004)

Awesome and thanks for all your effort and research!!! Thinking i might go with the Muddy's


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## carbon arrow1 (Jul 9, 2008)

Re: Muddy sticks vs Lone Wolf sticks
I had a set of the old muddys, they were pretty quiet, but they had a recall on them and muddy sent me a set of their new ones. I went to use them last week on a frosty morning, and I snuck into the perfect spot undetected, only to alarm every deer on the property most likely by climbing with them stupid sticks. They creaked like no other, and they do not fold together as nice as my older ones did. I used them one time and my dad wanted them so I traded them to him. I could not even be payed to use them again. I believe the part that makes noise is the bracket that touches the tree, it swivels now, the old ones were fixed. I was so mad I am selling my muddy stand just so I can be done with the company after having to send back a set I liked due to a safety recall, only to get these things in return. They also take 5 of them to get to even a decent hunting height. Save the frustration and get the lone wolfs who are tried and true!


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## gagodfrey (Oct 11, 2010)

I bought a set of Muddy Sticks. They are great. However, I just bought a set of the Stepp Ladder system. I think these are going to be even better. They are lighter than the muddys, get me higher, and are more versatile. I'm excited.
http://youtu.be/Kb1pyjAStMk

And this thread for a little more info:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1569065


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

gagodfrey said:


> I bought a set of Muddy Sticks. They are great. However, I just bought a set of the Stepp Ladder system. I think these are going to be even better. They are lighter than the muddys, get me higher, and are more versatile. I'm excited.
> http://youtu.be/Kb1pyjAStMk
> 
> And this thread for a little more info:
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1569065


How big a tree can you put these around? Interesting.


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## MonsterMan17 (Dec 19, 2010)

wvarchery said:


> Just a question for anyone reading this thread and wishing to comment: How many of you carry a couple of screw in steps to use at ground level where it is fairly easy to screw them into the tree (since you are not hanging on cranking in steps), then placing the sticks on the tree as you go up? Seems to me a couple of steps in the pack are compact and do not add very much weight versus carrying an additional climbing stick and it will get you several feet higher. Or would you just rather carry an additional climbing stick?


Bingo, I carry three or four, sometimes I put them up top to make transitioning from the sticks to the stand easier, only in rare cases though.


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## gagodfrey (Oct 11, 2010)

I think I'll be able to put them around just about any tree I want. But I'll let you know for sure when I get them in.


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## JustPGS4U (Sep 14, 2011)

Really appreciate the evaluation. One thing on the height comparison that was not documented correctly is you placed the Muddy sticks approximately one inch higher between the sticks than the LW's. This also is past the recommended height Muddy recommends of maximum 18 inches. With 4 Muddy sticks being placed almost an inch higher than the LW's, the actual difference in height should have been at the most 2 inches.

Thanks


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

great thread 
you freaking guys should be salesmen you have me looking at sticks!!!!!! and I just bought another lone wolf climber GRRRRRRRRRRRRr


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## dreamssn_xforce (Nov 25, 2009)

Just got a great deal on a set of Muddy's and a Bloodsport in the classifieds. May look at getting a Lone Wolf as my 5th stick to start on the ground with. Hopefully that will get me around 17'.


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## buckeyboy (Feb 6, 2007)

dreamssn_xforce said:


> Just got a great deal on a set of Muddy's and a Bloodsport in the classifieds. May look at getting a Lone Wolf as my 5th stick to start on the ground with. Hopefully that will get me around 17'.


 see ya got snookerd into buying somthing LOL Just like me LOL good luck with your purchase


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## dreamssn_xforce (Nov 25, 2009)

Yeah, I have built up a few places to hunt outside of my wifes families ranch so I need something portable. Plus it is hard to nail down one spot on 3500 acres.


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## pns (Oct 11, 2007)

meyerske said:


> Sounds to me like the ultimate setup would be 4 LW sticks with a Muddy at the very top. Mix and match.


2x that


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## gthangity (Sep 18, 2012)

I bought a set of five Muddy Sticks this fall and have set them up a couple dozen times now. I hunt public land so I need something light weight and portable that won't damage the tree. I find the climbing sticks to be heavy and cumbersome. I make a sling out of the top stick, when stacked, and throw the whole thing over my shoulder. The rope digs in and the stack has many jagged edges which can poke you and get hung up on your other gear as well as snagging anything that touches them in the forest. At least one of my sticks makes a loud "click" when I put my weight on it. It's coming from the geared cam system in the steps.

I'm thinking about selling my sticks and buying Cranford EZY Climb Rope Tree Steps. 

Anyone ever use these?

Roughly... they are half the price, weight, and bulk that the Muddy sticks are. (to get to the same height)

http://ezyclimb.shptron.com/c/tree-steps_ezy-climb-folding-rope-tree-step?action_type=switch_product&selected_cat_keys=107125.107057.0.0.0&selected_product=c136ab5cdc27cf9541ed73fe3c77acc3&redirected_post=1


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## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

I have 6 LW sticks and usually carry 4. 

I like them more and more every time I use them.


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## 2 Ultras (Jul 7, 2005)

I smell a rat.


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## Henge (Sep 8, 2010)

Has anyone found the lone wolf sticks to be too long? It seems on a crooked oak a shorter muddy would be better. I dont have experience with either but wonderin if muddy are more versitle.


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## rhino_81 (Jan 15, 2010)

I have both and length wise don't see any issues yet with lone wolf sticks. 

Not really liking the cam buckle strap tho. Muddy's rope system is quieter and easier to tighten for me. The stick always tries to slide when I try snugging the cam strap. 

I think if lone wolf had a rope system they would be almost unbeatable IMHO.

AJ 


Sent From A ******* in a tree top!


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## panick (Oct 17, 2007)

I will always stick with the orrigional company who fist designed the product,also seen more product safety issies with the Mudd that LW.With my life on the line im going LW.


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## ronhonest (Dec 28, 2008)

i hope everyone who has modified their sticks to be mindfull when they use them. they are designed the way they are for a purpose. i am not down playing any one. you do not want to fall out of a tree. i have and can tell you that it hurts. please be carefull


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## Heli-Hunter (Oct 30, 2012)

Bike tire innertube on LW buckles!! :wink: life saver


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## joaxe (Sep 7, 2006)

Heli-Hunter said:


> Bike tire innertube on LW buckles!! :wink: life saver


Great idea! I will try this. Thanks! I was going to try and spray them with Plasti-Dip but this might be easier.

Joe


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

I saw the original poster claimed the Muddy sticks were fatser to hang than the LW but can you hang four Muddy in the time it takes to hang three LW and be the same height? I doubt that. LW has not had any recalls either and if i am standing on them at 18 feet i will take the original with no defects.


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## allohiohunter (Jul 8, 2012)

Can anyone tell me if the pro stick or the aero lite muddy sticks will attach to my stand with the super mount system? And do the sticks actually snap into the stand itself as they do each other? Thanks, sorry to freshen up such an old thread, but I've been searching it a lot.


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