# question about finger bows and spine



## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

hey all you master finger shooters !!  I know that a longer ata and higher brace height attributes to being a better bow for fingers. I wanted to see if any of you had a preference for single cams or dual cams. I have watched Tim Wells and the Fitzgeralds and they shoot single cam Mathews but thats the only finger shooters I know of on TV. I kind of have my eye on an older model mathews thats a 37 ata and 7.5 bh. 

I also was wanting to see if any of you have noticed if a stiffer arrow flew better with fingers. Thanks guys !!


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## eric schmaus (Mar 7, 2011)

I prefer round wheels myself but like you said Dan & Guy like their Mathews, it's a personal preference more than anything. My current bow shoots stiff arrows very well, 2514's & 2219's.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

eric schmaus said:


> I prefer round wheels myself but like you said Dan & Guy like their Mathews, it's a personal preference more than anything. My current bow shoots stiff arrows very well, 2514's & 2219's.


those switchbacks they use have very round cams and that might attribute to the finger ability of the bow. I dont know. I think Tim uses an older single cam with the more aggressive cam. Heck it might just take practice and set up and it might not matter at all. lol who knows


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## eric schmaus (Mar 7, 2011)

Exactly, anything within reason could be shot with fingers I guess. I've been shooting fingers for 30years and prefer a long ata & bh + round wheels. My LTD is one sweet bow!


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

LTD?? Im not familiar with that bow I dont think. What gets me also is the SBXT they use is like 32 ata. lol


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## eric schmaus (Mar 7, 2011)

Hoyt vantage ltd, 45" ata 8"bh, accuwheels. This bow is made for finger shooting. I dont know how they shoot them short bows with fingers, I'm sure the large cams help some. The string angle at full draw doesnt seem to bad, I was just watching Dan& Guy today.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

oh ok. my buddy Mitchell (CATO) is a big fingers shooter. he has a fingers bow he's fixin to sell. I thought about it but I just dont have the money right now. It's a special fingers Hoyt bow but thats all I know about it.


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## hunting1 (Jun 11, 2002)

I shoot and prefer Mathews single cams or Conquest/Rival Pro. Which is or was what Tim Wells and Bob Fraum shoot. You will need to add about 8-10 lbs to the spine charts with these type of bows.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

hunting1 said:


> I shoot and prefer Mathews single cams or Conquest/Rival Pro. Which is or was what Tim Wells and Bob Fraum shoot. You will need to add about 8-10 lbs to the spine charts with these type of bows.


thx hunting1 !!


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

Shot both and have to say the accu wheels or the reflex caribou would be smoothest and accurate I've shot. Just me.I'm getting back into fingers after awhile.


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

I like aggressive twin cam bows. I have shot a few single cams and they have never really worked for me, but I have been beaten in a few competitions by Mathews shooters, so I think it is more what works for you, rather than a certain type of bow being better for fingers. Without a doubt longer AtA is better, but I have shot long AtA bows with hybrid cams that I really didn't like.

My most successful bow to date is a Bowtech Constitution. But I am now using a Martin Shadowcat with Nitro 2 cams and it is as fast and as accurate as the Connie, but a lot easier to live with.


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## hunting1 (Jun 11, 2002)

As you see there are several opinions and comfort levels. I have had 3-Caribou bows and could never shoot consistant. As well I had 2-Bowtech Constitutions and never could get them under control, but there are those who love them. You will have to try them to see what works. It gets expensive, but is fun playing I guess. Good luck!


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Forgot to mention spine: This is a little strange; all my bows are set around 60 lbs with a 30.5" DL and up until now, they all worked well with 400 spine arrows. The Shadowcats do not shoot well with 400 spine at all, and so I have moved to 340 spine. Even then, the Lightspeed arrows I have used for many years are a little too soft in a 340 spine, they shoot well enough, but you can see the tail swing out when I loose. The Sky Art Carbons I tried (because they were light) show no signs of being soft (too limber) and shoot extremely accurately.

So, watch the changeover point on any manufacturers chart, as you may need to go a little stiffer to get good flight. Of course, it is all in the loose and the cleaner you can get that, the more the bow will tolerate a slightly stiffer arrow.


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## shadowhunter (Oct 12, 2003)

My set up is similar to Nielm using Hoyt finger bows ans accuwheels. I like 400 spine even though the Pinwheel shaft selector software guide says that is soft with a 11 to 13 % FOC.


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

Neil and hunting 1 said it best. Try them have fun and go with what works for you.These guys have really helped me- a lot of good information here.I'm having a blast getting back into fingers! !


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

thx a ton guys !! I appreciate all the input. I am gonna start shooting after season with fingers and see what I can kill next year. I will need lots of practice before next year. lol


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## tguil (Mar 3, 2003)

Why wait for next season? It's not all that hard.

Tom


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

I have to say I'm not where I want to be but getting used to this Mathews apex 8.I'm gonna hunt with it ......... Good luck whichever path you take.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

thx guys. I'm not the sharpest bulb in the knife drawer so I figure I better practice awhile before I take a shot at a deer. lol I shoot reapers and spitfires and I can watch em drop or at least hear em but thats just if I put the arrow in the right place. Doubt I could do that barebow with fingers for a while


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

As a finger shooter, there is always a lot to practice. 

I used to be clubmates with one of the best finger shooters in the UK. I practised a lot and still do, despite years of experience and countless wins, my clubmate would practice, practice, practice and practice.

I like to shoot at golf tee's pushed into the front of a foam target, to give six little white dots. The target is at 22 yards. When I can break the tee's or reliably put arrows right alongside them, I know both the bow and me are ready for competition.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

NeilM said:


> I like aggressive twin cam bows. I have shot a few single cams and they have never really worked for me, but I have been beaten in a few competitions by Mathews shooters, so I think it is more what works for you, rather than a certain type of bow being better for fingers. Without a doubt longer AtA is better, but I have shot long AtA bows with hybrid cams that I really didn't like.
> 
> My most successful bow to date is a Bowtech Constitution. But I am now using a Martin Shadowcat with Nitro 2 cams and it is as fast and as accurate as the Connie, but a lot easier to live with.


My Feelings Completely!
Give me aggressive cams with a hard back wall. But I prefer a lower let off 60-65% I want the bow to rip the string from my fingers.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

With my draw at around 30 inch I always go for the stiffer spine (340 when the charts say 400) And I prefer twin cam Single cam just doesn't work for me.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

NeilM said:


> Forgot to mention spine: This is a little strange; all my bows are set around 60 lbs with a 30.5" DL and up until now, they all worked well with 400 spine arrows. The Shadowcats do not shoot well with 400 spine at all, and so I have moved to 340 spine. Even then, the Lightspeed arrows I have used for many years are a little too soft in a 340 spine, they shoot well enough, but you can see the tail swing out when I loose. The Sky Art Carbons I tried (because they were light) show no signs of being soft (too limber) and shoot extremely accurately.
> 
> So, watch the changeover point on any manufacturers chart, as you may need to go a little stiffer to get good flight. Of course, it is all in the loose and the cleaner you can get that, the more the bow will tolerate a slightly stiffer arrow.


 Neil I get the same results as you 60lb 30 inch use 340s with the cat and other bows with agro cams. Can make the 400s work with real light points but foc is to far back and groups suffer.


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

BOHO, you looking at an Icon?


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

b0w_bender said:


> But I prefer a lower let off 60-65% I want the bow to rip the string from my fingers.


I'm exactly the same, and I really like adjustable back stops as they allow you to fine tune the let off until it feels just right.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

Forgot to mention I have a mathews Triumph which looks real pretty hanging on the wall while I'm out shooting the twin cam cat.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

red44 said:


> BOHO, you looking at an Icon?


Im sorry for the delayed response. I have not looked at an Icon. Im looking at a Constitution or an Elite XXL or XLR at present.


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## grichards (Dec 7, 2008)

Who makes the rival pro?


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

I have two Shadowcats, they are both set at 28"DL and 60 pounds. I shoot the Harvest Time HT-3's and HT-4's in 400 spine. They both fly like darts. The Shadowcat has a nice ATA of 41-1/4". Lets see now, I will be 56 in Dec. and I think I started shooting a bow when I was about 5-6 so I guess you can say I have been shooting close to 50 years. I have only ever shot fingers non-sights. A Marting cougar was the first modern bow that I shot, fell in love with the cams and will not shoot round wheel again.
The main thing you need to do is shoot as many of the newer long ATA bow as you can get your hands on and see what fits you.
BTW. Here is a Shadowcat listed here on AT for an awsome price. If I didn't already have 2 of them, I would be on it like a duck on a junebug.
Don.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1548527&highlight=Martin+Shadowcat


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## cap61 (Aug 14, 2007)

I have read all the recommendations on here so far, and have tried just about all of them. It will come down to personal preference, shooting form, and how much you want to spend. What works for others may not be the same for you, and so on. I've been shooting fingers now since '87 and have shot just about everything within my budget, from Shadowcats to Ovations, to alot of the Hoyts and the Bowtech Constitution. Bought all of these used by the way. I've now settled in on a Darton Cyclone LD, and I must say it is a VERY under rated fingers bow! The CPS cam system(which is the original cam and 1/2) is about as smooth of a draw as I have felt, plus it has the solid back wall so many finger shooters like, a long axle to axle, and an 8 inch brace hieght. It also carries plenty of speed for someone wanting to improve on that aspect. My setup will shoot 450gr arrows out at 263 fps, which is plenty fast. I can draw 67lbs on my Cyclone easier than 57lbs on my Constitution. I will say that the Cyclone is not as quiet as the Bowtech, but it is better than the Ovation. Some of the best 'older' bows to consider also would be the late 90's Hoyts, like the Defiant,Superstar Supreme, the Aspen and Oasis. Had all these too! My consideration came down to the most speed I could get and the consistency to make the shot I needed when hunting. I think you can have to much speed for finger shooting, since there is no such thing as a 'clean release' with fingers. I have whine taste, and would love to shoot some of the more expensive bows, but I have a beer budget to work with so I try to get the best for what I can afford. Some of you guys will be tired of your expensive bows in a few years, so I will try on then. Example...I picked up the 2008 Bowtech for $199 shipped! You have alot of options my friend, and as one of the guys said, half the fun may be trying them all out! You gotta figure out what you want and how much you want to spend in a fingers bow first. That will help narrow the field for you....a little! Good luck with your search!


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

well if I decide to get a bow it will for sure have to be quiet. It drives me insane to have a bow thats loud, even if Im not gonna hunt with it. I will always lead towards an Elite because of the warranty and I have owned quite a few of there models and they are all very nice bows. what gets me it's the guys that can shoot the switchbacks and similar bows well with fingers. it just doesnt seem natural to be able to do that but if I could do it, thats what I'd rather do. Much easier to hunt with a shorter bow from a treestand. I watched a you tube clip of a guy that loves the mathews z7 for his fingers bow. I looked at one but Im not willing to spend that kind of money, even if I knew it would work for me. lol


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## cap61 (Aug 14, 2007)

I'm the same way about noise, but got caught up in the speed thing of the bows nowdays, and what I found was I was more inconsistent with my shots with those bows. It would magnify any little flaw or mistake I would make in my release. For release shooters speed bows are great! My nephew shoots Elite bows, and just spent over a grand on a new one. Says he likes his older one better! Guess If I was a release shooter I'd have more options to choose from. I actually shot a Darton Vapor at one time, and shot it well. 35" axle to axle, 7 1/2 brace hieght. I can't shoot anything under that brace hieght. I like my forearm skin the way it is. lol! Great treestand bow, with plenty of speed...over 305fps! Shot a deer while sitting down, almost straight down under the tree! The draw only went to 30 inch max, which I comfortably shoot 31"+. Alot of people don't take into account the size of the cams nowdays when considering axle to axle length. They are so big they actually add to the length of the shorter bows, which was the case with the Vapor. I shot 2 fingers under and had no finger pinch at all. I have to admit, looks are a plus for me, which is why I like my Cyclone because of the recurve limbs. Good luck with your choice. I'd be interested in the results.


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

cap61 said:


> I'm the same way about noise, but got caught up in the speed thing of the bows nowdays, and what I found was I was more inconsistent with my shots with those bows. It would magnify any little flaw or mistake I would make in my release. For release shooters speed bows are great! My nephew shoots Elite bows, and just spent over a grand on a new one. Says he likes his older one better! Guess If I was a release shooter I'd have more options to choose from. I actually shot a Darton Vapor at one time, and shot it well. 35" axle to axle, 7 1/2 brace hieght. I can't shoot anything under that brace hieght. I like my forearm skin the way it is. lol! Great treestand bow, with plenty of speed...over 305fps! Shot a deer while sitting down, almost straight down under the tree! The draw only went to 30 inch max, which I comfortably shoot 31"+. Alot of people don't take into account the size of the cams nowdays when considering axle to axle length. They are so big they actually add to the length of the shorter bows, which was the case with the Vapor. I shot 2 fingers under and had no finger pinch at all. I have to admit, looks are a plus for me, which is why I like my Cyclone because of the recurve limbs. Good luck with your choice. I'd be interested in the results.


just curious. are your bows single cams? The XXL Im looking at is like a 36" ata and a 8" or so brace.


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