# Belleville Canadian Tire hunter unfriendely



## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

that is story with all the stores in ontario, believe its a mcguinty govt. provincial stipulation


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## bowbender300 (Feb 3, 2010)

I bought the same bullets at lebarons in Toronto and they never asked for my PAL. I also bought the same bullets in a Belleville gun store no PAL was needed. I think it is a Canadian Tire policy.


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## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

lebarons asked me for my drivers license and pal when I bought airgun pellets

Basspro wants too see the pal for birdshot purchases


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

I Hate buying from Canadian Tire,I Find them to be piss poorly run,Managers fault not the Kids,However the Perth Ct at least tries to know and sell there hunting stuff...And it is a Canadian Tire Policy,so is locking up there Archery stuff...Sad,Imo...Grizz


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## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

Don't waste your time writing a letter to those folks, have a chat with the Ontario CFO. 

Chief Firearms Officer
Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services 777 Memorial Avenue
Orillia, ON L3V 7V3
Tel: 705-329-5522
Fax: (705) 329-5623

Chief Firearms Office
The Chief Firearms Office's (CFO) mandate is to ensure public safety as set out in Sec.5 of the Firearms Act. The Chief Firearms Officer is delegated his authority under the Act by the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services and the CFO administers the licencing requirements of the Act to individuals and businesses residing and operating within the Province. 

Public safety, as defined in Sec.5 of the Act, is the fundamental principle upon which all licencing decisions are made.

The CFO is responsible for the following activities:
Issues, refuses to issue, renews or revokes firearms licences for businesses and individuals, authorizations to transport restricted and prohibited firearms, authorizations to carry restricted and prohibited firearms for* purposes prescribed within the Act.
Approves shooting ranges.
Approves the transfer of prohibited and restricted firearms and other regulated items between* individuals and businesses.
Conducts inspections of firearms licenced businesses and firearms shooting ranges to ensure compliance with the Act.
Attends court in relation to challenges to decisions made under the Firearms Act.
Prepares affidavits on behalf of police services for use in criminal trials and proceedings.
Maintains records in the Canadian Firearms Information System (CFIS)
The protection of public safety is the paramount goal of the CFO.* The CFO achieves this goal through partnerships and the professional, rigorous enforcement and administration of the Firearms Act and Regulations.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Well that's what happens when you people from Toronto vote in a Liberal goverment who does nothing but squeeze us for every penny and give it to the Lazy and to the immigrants brought into our country who just collect welfare...Time to stand up and Stop taking it from behind...Grizz


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## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

Obviously you are a hunter and if you are reloading you use firearms. That would also mean that you have your PAL. So why not just show the guy your PAL and purchase your supplies?


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

rockin_johny said:


> Obviously you are a hunter and if you are reloading you use firearms. That would also mean that you have your PAL. So why not just show the guy your PAL and purchase your supplies?


Because if it's not LAW stating that you have to show it to purchase that then why should you kiss their arse? That's the problem in this country, too many people dont take a stand for their rights


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## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

Maxtor said:


> Because if it's not LAW stating that you have to show it to purchase that then why should you kiss their arse? That's the problem in this country, too many people dont take a stand for their rights


Pretty sure its a mcguinty government requirement. Creba boxing day shooting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day_shooting


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## bowbender300 (Feb 3, 2010)

Yes I am a hunter, yes I have a PAL. My point of this post is to question why I need to produce it when there is no law that says I need to other then Canadian Tires own "law". We Canadians are sheep and will follow any "law" that is in place. It's time we stopped and fight for our rights.


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## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

bowbender300 said:


> Yes I am a hunter, yes I have a PAL. My point of this post is to question why I need to produce it when there is no law that says I need to other then Canadian Tires own "law". We Canadians are sheep and will follow any "law" that is in place. It's time we stopped and fight for our rights.


Might get better feedback (support) if you post a thread on the canadian gunnutz forum v archerytalk.


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## bowbender300 (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks ZZZZZZ for the suggestion about Gun Nutz. It's Done


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> Well that's what happens when you people from Toronto vote in a Liberal goverment who does nothing but squeeze us for every penny and give it to the Lazy and to the immigrants brought into our country who just collect welfare...Time to stand up and Stop taking it from behind...Grizz


Oh..Just in case i wasnt clear enough for all you Liberal voters...I am a Die hard Anti-Liberal,Pro Conservative ******* from the Lanark Valley..Phuck the Liberals..They have run Ontario into the ground,Phucking Thieves...Put that in your pipe and smoke it..Truth Hurts...Now back to the city where you belong!!


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## Skel37 (Oct 6, 2012)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> Oh..Just in case i wasnt clear enough for all you Liberal voters...I am a Die hard Anti-Liberal,Pro Conservative ******* from the Lanark Valley..Phuck the Liberals..They have run Ontario into the ground,Phucking Thieves...Put that in your pipe and smoke it..Truth Hurts...Now back to the city where you belong!!


Haha...but how do you really feel? That's awesome! The Indiginous people (new politically correct term for Native Indians) aren't the ones that should be IDLE NO MORE!


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## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

Teaxas!

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2013/01/18/20508041.html


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Skel37 said:


> Haha...but how do you really feel? That's awesome! The Indiginous people (new politically correct term for Native Indians) aren't the ones that should be IDLE NO MORE!


They can ask to be called whatever they want..I Have another name for them...They lost the War...All they are are Lazy Welfare Bums who live off other Hardworking Canadians...I Have no use for them as a Culture...Get off your lazy ass and make your own way in life,stop asking for handouts....Grizz


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## joebehar (Nov 13, 2012)

I am not and will not pass judgement on anyone's political and cultural views, but can we move this to the PRM section if you want to continue and leave this section for archery?


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

It should open our eyes that it's all about control. Even though the gun registry was dismantled some gun shops keep records of the sales. Some will have you believe it's to cover their backs in case the gun is used in a crime and that the police would need a warrant for records of said gun. However it's in book form and all guns sold would be in the hands of the authoritys. Also if you were to buy a gun at a store that did'nt violate your rights as to what gun was bought the records of ammunition sold would counter those rights. Do you ever get the feeling that we are all considered closet criminals just waiting to come out lol. My rant for the week.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

joebehar said:


> I am not and will not pass judgement on anyone's political and cultural views, but can we move this to the PRM section if you want to continue and leave this section for archery?


Feel free to move along if you dont like the thread..Free country and i am loud,proud to be a Conservative,Anti -Liberal..man..ANTI-LIBERAL....I Dont care who has a problem with that..Last time i checked i lived in Canada-A Free Country....Liberals have screwed our Province for years..Time to take a Stand and Vote Conservative.....Grizz


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## joebehar (Nov 13, 2012)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> Feel free to move along if you dont like the thread..Free country and i am loud,proud to be a Conservative,Anti -Liberal..man..ANTI-LIBERAL....I Dont care who has a problem with that..Last time i checked i lived in Canada-A Free Country....Liberals have screwed our Province for years..Time to take a Stand and Vote Conservative.....Grizz


Thank you GrizzlyMan.

I too live in Canada and like I said, I have no issue with your political leanings. You are free to speak and vote as you please, but just as a matter of consideration for those that want to separate archery and politics, all I asked was that you discuss politics in the forum dedicated to that topic. Nothing else.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

joebehar said:


> Thank you GrizzlyMan.
> 
> I too live in Canada and like I said, I have no issue with your political leanings. You are free to speak and vote as you please, but just as a matter of consideration for those that want to separate archery and politics, all I asked was that you discuss politics in the forum dedicated to that topic. Nothing else.


First off.You opened this thread..And it is directly related to the Liberal Goverment,so if you dont like it..Too bad..Check out other threads....I am PRO-CONSERVATIVE..I Bet all you city boys hate that...Now,I am goin over to drink beer,get loaded and watch hockey..Oh and The Maple Leafs suck!!!And so does every other Toronto team,City of Loser Pro teams,And it all starts with the Leafs,1967...GO SENS GO!!!


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Agreed.


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## joebehar (Nov 13, 2012)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> First off.You opened this thread..And it is directly related to the Liberal Goverment,so if you dont like it..Too bad..Check out other threads....I am PRO-CONSERVATIVE..I Bet all you city boys hate that...Now,I am goin over to drink beer,get loaded and watch hockey..Oh and The Maple Leafs suck!!!And so does every other Toronto team,City of Loser Pro teams,And it all starts with the Leafs,1967...GO SENS GO!!!


I'll leave you to your opinions, but think about this while you're watching your hockey game.

You'll get a lot more mileage from raising yourself as opposed to lowering others.


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## bigbadwoolfe (Jan 1, 2013)

bowbender300 said:


> Yes I am a hunter, yes I have a PAL. My point of this post is to question why I need to produce it when there is no law that says I need to other then Canadian Tires own "law". We Canadians are sheep and will follow any "law" that is in place. It's time we stopped and fight for our rights.


Before you start talking about rights and laws, you should know that Canadian tire is privately owned business, and as such, it's their right to refuse to sell you anything for any reason, or no reason at all. So if they ask for your license, it's your right not to show it just as much as it's their right not to sell you the bullets... 

So if you want something from them, give them what they ask or take your business somewhere else. 

Sent from a smartphone. Ignore typos and carry on.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

joebehar said:


> I'll leave you to your opinions, but think about this while you're watching your hockey game.
> 
> You'll get a lot more mileage from raising yourself as opposed to lowering others.


I am not lowering anybody,they do it to themselves...Stay in the City and i will stay in the Country...I am loud and Proud to be a ******* from Lanark County....Leafs Suck!!!!!


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

bigbadwoolfe said:


> Before you start talking about rights and laws, you should know that Canadian tire is privately owned business, and as such, it's their right to refuse to sell you anything for any reason, or no reason at all. So if they ask for your license, it's your right not to show it just as much as it's their right not to sell you the bullets...
> 
> So if you want something from them, give them what they ask or take your business somewhere else.
> 
> Sent from a smartphone. Ignore typos and carry on.


Oh dont worry i dont buy anything in that Chithole...Grizz


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Oh and if this offends somebody..too bad..."Seems to be a whole lot of Dalton Bag lickers in Ontario"..Wake up..He has Bankrupted our province,and raised prices on everything...Oh and not to mention the Nuclear Plants...Vote Conseravtive-Vote for Tim Hudek...Proud to be a Conservative and an Anti-Liberal....Grizz


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## postman99 (May 9, 2008)

Well said!!


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## HOYTINIT (Aug 28, 2012)

you have to show a drivers license to buy freaking cough medecine down here


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## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

Bowbender see reply from Gunnutz member the Punisher below he works at the Canadian Tire store.

I work at the Belleville CTC, though I am not on the gun desk. All ammo sales require a PAL....this applies to loaded commercial ammo and loading components (powder, primers and bullets). With the CFO constantly checking everything (and sometimes rules are a little unclear), the owner of the store decided it would be easier to just have all ammo and loading components require PAL identification. It is easier to err on the side of caution then to face the legal implications of failing to comply. Whomever you were dealing with may have believed it was law, but either way, they will not sell reloading components to individuals without a PAL. Since I work there and truly appreciate the commitment the store owner has made to firearms, I apologise that you were not told or explained this policy before they ordered the bullets. I understand your point, and if you want to talk to a manager, PM me and I'll put you in touch with one.

... 50 CGN posts and counting, here is another one regarding CFO stipulation...

Guys keep in mind in Ontario the CFO has mandated that Powder and Primer sales do require ID(I believe PAL) and recording of address and personal info, just like with ammunition.

It is easy to mix up or confuse the rules, and many stores such as Canadian tire likely find it much easier to just apply the same policy to all ammo related products.

Better for them to lose a customer or 2 like the OP, then screw up and have their license to sell ammo revoked by our over zealous CFO.


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## bowbender300 (Feb 3, 2010)

Thank you for your clarification zzzzzz. If I would have known the policy I would have been happy with that and just bought my bullet components elsewhere. I still wonder about a friend of mine (who doesn't hunt) buying these bullets for me at Lebarons in Toronto and not having to produce a PAL or ID. I also bought another box in a store in Belleville and didn't have to produce ID either. The comment section on the CT website only allows for 255 characters so I couldn't leave the message that I wanted leaving me frustrated and resorting to this post. Thanks again for taking the time to clarify the policy.


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## odie442 (Jan 11, 2013)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> Oh and if this offends somebody..too bad..."Seems to be a whole lot of Dalton Bag lickers in Ontario"..Wake up..He has Bankrupted our province,and raised prices on everything...Oh and not to mention the Nuclear Plants...Vote Conseravtive-Vote for Tim Hudek...Proud to be a Conservative and an Anti-Liberal....Grizz


If you kids don't play nice somone is going to end up crying. lol


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

odie442 said:


> If you kids don't play nice somone is going to end up crying. lol


It aint goona be me and i aint no kid..I will be 33 in 6 weeks..Vote Conservative and get rid of these D-Bags running our Province...Grizz


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## bowbender300 (Feb 3, 2010)

D-Bags resigned/retired with a nice voter funded pension


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## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

Since 2008, California's capital has required ammunition dealers to take names and thumbprints of bullet buyers.

Full Story - What's missing in U.S. gun control scramble? Bullets, (Reuters) 

(Reuters) - In tracking down illegal weapons, the smoking gun may not be a gun at all.

Bullets are one thing Sacramento Police Detective Greg Halstead can count on to root out weapons that otherwise would be impossible to find. They are also largely missing from the gun control debate in Washington.

Since 2008, California's capital has required ammunition dealers to take names and thumbprints of bullet buyers. They send the information electronically to police computers, which compare the names to an FBI criminal database.

Halstead begins his day looking at a list of buyers, picking out the ones who aren't supposed to own ammunition - or guns. The thumbprint left by each prohibited buyer is nearly perfect evidence of crime.

"The ammunition case is a slam-dunk solid," said Halstead, who regularly turns up illegal guns at homes he otherwise would have no reason to search. Some 154 felony convictions and 92 misdemeanor convictions have resulted so far.

While the gun control initiatives launched by President Barack Obama on Wednesday in response to December's Connecticut school massacre are the most sweeping in decades, they are more focused on guns than bullets and omitted several controls on ammunition that some law enforcement officials say could help.

The United States ended nearly two decades of federal ammunition control in 1986, concluding that regulating bullets was too much effort and failed to improve safety.

Advocates say the major hurdle to effective ammunition control a quarter century ago - laborious cross-referencing of criminal databases - has been made easier by technology.

Even the former head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, whose 1986 testimony cleared the way for Congress to end ammunition controls, is of two minds now.

Back then, ATF chief Steve Higgins wrote in a memo that was part of the testimony considered by Congress: "Current recordkeeping requirements for ammunition have no substantial law enforcement value."

Speaking to Reuters 27 years later, he saw a chance that some controls on ammunition might work. "It might be like chicken soup - it can't hurt and it might help," he said.

He added that the prime reason ammunition logs lacked any law enforcement value in 1986 was that his agents ignored them. The thinly stretched Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms had 1,829 agents and investigators to police the nation's firearms.

"We were just struggling to get enough people to deal with the gun part of it," Higgins said. "I don't remember doing much in the ammunition area."

Higgins was still skeptical about whether computers would make tracking ammunition purchases easy, but said he was open to the idea.

SHORT LIFE OF A BULLET

Americans buy some 10 billion to 12 billion bullets every year, including military and law enforcement, according to estimates by the industry. Regulating them is a Herculean task but is easier than controlling guns in one significant way: a bullet usually doesn't last long.

While guns are 'durable goods' that can last centuries, bullets last only one shot, and the trail between purchaser and shooter is generally a short one, making it easier to follow.

Ammunition can be regulated in several ways, including recording buyer information; checking backgrounds of would-be buyers; banning Internet sales of ammunition; marking bullets with factory serial numbers or imprints from the gun that fired them; and banning high-capacity magazines.

Of those measures, Obama chose one - asking Congress to reinstate a ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds.

Only a handful of states regulate ammunition sales in any way: Illinois, Massachusetts and New Jersey. A California law to require logs of some ammunition sales has been stalled in court.

New York last week became the first state to require on-the-spot background checks when buying bullets, and limited magazines to seven rounds. The New York law also requires ammo dealers to register with the state and keep records of purchasers, which will enable police to receive automatic alerts if someone is stockpiling bullets.

BUYING IN BULK

U.S. gun, rifle and ammunition sales to civilians were $4.3 billion in 2011, with bullets amounting to about a third of the total, the National Shooting Sports Foundation estimates.

High-capacity magazines are readily available over the Web - a 33-round magazine for a Glock handgun costs about $50. "You can load up on Monday, shoot until Tuesday," one salesman says in Web video.

Over the years, consumer versions of military rifles have become very popular, and they eat up bullets.

Some 70 percent of ammunition is for non-hunting use, primarily target practice, according to a survey of its members by the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

"The consumption of 1,000 rounds or more is often routine for a weekend trip to the range," the foundation said in a note opposing ammunition regulation.

And while target shooters need to buy in bulk, criminal shootings involve less than four rounds, on average, said Lawrence Keane, the foundation's senior vice president, quoting a 2003 study of Jersey City, New Jersey, police records in the early to mid-90s. (link.reuters.com/zub45t)

The study period included years when the federal assault weapons ban was in place, and a 2004 study of the ban by one of the same researchers (link.reuters.com/jac45t) was cautious in its conclusion about large-capacity magazine limits. The impact on gun violence from the ban was likely to be small, but guns with large magazines tended to result in more shots fired and more victims.

TRACKING THE BUYERS

Los Angeles has required dealers to log ammunition sales since 1998, and police there say they check logs regularly.

"This is something I think has made L.A. a safer place, really," said Los Angeles Police Department Captain Bill Hart, the head of the gangs and narcotics division.

In California cities that require records of ammunition sales, law enforcement officials have found about 2 percent or 3 percent of sales were to prohibited owners.

Gun rights advocates say ammunition regulations only affect lawful citizens.

"Criminals have other sources of information and would not need to purchase it from California retailers who are required to register their sales," the California Rifle and Pistol Association told the California legislature in a statement submitted to oppose ammunition control.

Keane, of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, argued that Sacramento and Los Angeles have no evidence that crime has decreased because of their laws.

Halstead, the Sacramento detective, acknowledged that one reason for a decrease in prohibited sales in Sacramento could be that illegal buyers were shopping elsewhere.

SERIAL NUMBERS

Northeastern University researcher Glenn Pierce is a co-author of a RAND Corporation study (link.reuters.com/byb45t) of Los Angeles ammunition purchase logs from April and May 2004 that found 2.8 percent of purchases were by prohibited possessors.

He sees regulating sales as the first step in ammunition control. The second is to put serial numbers on bullets - one number per box of ammunition. Allowing police to link a bullet to a purchaser would cut the supply of bullets into the illegal market sharply, he argued.

A California bill to put serial numbers on bullets failed in 2005. Ammunition Coding System, a company with a laser-engraving technology for bullets, said the cost would be "not significant" but the industry said it would bankrupt them. The two sides also disagree on whether the serial numbers are always legible.

Another measure proposed in California is to require licenses to buy bullets.

PAST EXPERIENCE

The United States swept in gun control laws after a string of assassinations including those of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy. The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibited mail-order sales of ammunition and required dealers to log their ammunition sales, in part.

The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986, passed under President Ronald Reagan, ended those ammunition regulations and broadly loosened gun control. High-capacity magazines were banned under the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, which ended in 2004.

Experts consulted by Reuters did not recall any studies of ammunition control in the 1970s and 1980s.

In Washington, little has changed in attitudes towards ammunition control since the memo by then-ATF chief Higgins, even though federal agents cooperate with successful local ammunition programs.

"Our own experience in regulating domestic transfers has shown that there is little utility for law enforcement in imposing the same controls on ammunition transfers as we do on arms. Accordingly, the United States largely eliminated most controls on domestic transfers of ammunition, " Assistant Secretary of State Thomas Countryman was quoted by The Hill as saying on July 10.

That assessment was based on the U.S. experience in 1968-1986 and prepared by the Department of Justice for Countryman, who was negotiating an arms trade treaty.

The White House had no immediate comment on why it did not include more ammunition measures in its package.

Sacramento's Detective Halstead sees his work as extremely relevant to fighting crime. He counts down the list of gang members, parolees, registered sex offenders, and more that his group has tracked down.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

bowbender300 said:


> D-Bags resigned/retired with a nice voter funded pension


No...Every Liberal is a D-Bag..And i guess there are more Liberal Bag lickers on here then i thought ...Wow...Glad i am a Pro Conservative country boy..I Could not fathom being a City boy,never left the concrete kind of person.....Grizz


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## zzzzzz (May 29, 2012)

Link http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/20/us-usa-guns-ammunition-idUSBRE90J02K20130120

Wow! you guys are whining about CT Managers and over zealous CFO's


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

zzzzzz said:


> Link http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/20/us-usa-guns-ammunition-idUSBRE90J02K20130120
> 
> Wow! you guys are whining about CT Managers and over zealous CFO's


I Could care less about the U.S.A..I am a Canadian and worry about what goes on in Canada and Ontario...They can deal with there own problems,like Canada should as well...Grizz


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## joebehar (Nov 13, 2012)

GrizzlyMan1980 said:


> I will be 33 in 6 weeks


33 whole years...

I suppose we were all full of p**s and vinegar back then...biologically speaking, your brain has just recently matured fully.

You're not old enough to remember, let alone live through some of the conservative governments in this province that cost the average family thousands each year due to their irresponsible actions. You'll soon enough learn that every political party is just a different shade of the same red ink in their budgets.

But its nice to see young folk with an interest in politics, no matter their leanings.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

joebehar said:


> 33 whole years...
> 
> I suppose we were all full of p**s and vinegar back then...biologically speaking, your brain has just recently matured fully.
> 
> ...


Keep on Believing...You and your age group have put our Country in the State it is in...And it all Started with Pierre Trudeau.You think you will insult my age..Go ahead...Proud to be an Anti-Liberal...Conservative..Man...Have fun in the City...Grizz


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

Time to put this thread on hold until everyone regains a bit of decorum...


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