# *Deer Shot Placement and tracking*



## DDDII (Apr 13, 2005)

*Thanks*

I've found this one to be very helpful also.
http://home.mn.rr.com/deerfever/Anatomy.html


Dan


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## Charlieeasy (Aug 8, 2004)

*Picture*

Jerry,
Can you revise that picture with the right front leg going forward?
That way young bowhunters can see how shoulder and front leg
bone move......Tks, Chuck


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## Jeff in SC (May 10, 2004)

Hey Jerry! Thanks! My brother-in-law is trying to get into deer hunting for the first time this year, and I was just talking to him about this also!


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## Dchiefransom (Jan 16, 2006)

Ahhh, thank you. I've been deer hunting for decades, and have never seen a picture of the vitals with the leg bones in it. All my kills were firearm, though. Thanks again.


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## BK2BK (Jul 20, 2006)

Awesome pics, i have only been bow hunting for three years and never knew the shoulder and leg bone formed a V shape, and it looks like the lungs do not go as far back as i thought, they seem to be more over the leg than back.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Charlie, something like this?


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

1 more


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## swoosh (Nov 7, 2005)

*Thx Jerry*

I am going to send to my youth hunters, Nice work!!!!


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## Bow_Art (Oct 30, 2003)

You can also check Downhill & Uphill Shot placement at:

http://www.prairieshack.com/shot_placement.html


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## BingoFlyer (Jul 13, 2003)

They may like this game for shot placement, be warned that not all the shots are ethical but must be made before going on and are all makeable.
http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/FEATURES/ARTICLES/DEER/DEERGEOMETRY/


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## Rabbit (Nov 27, 2003)

Thanks Bingo...that was a cool little test for shot placement.
First Score 78 second score 96.


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## Misfire (Jun 12, 2004)

Thanks for the reminder Jerry!

.


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## VorTexan (Jan 8, 2005)

Great pics! I'm gonna have to shoot more forward myself! 

Hey, how bout a big ol' bull elk structure!?


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## 'Ike' (Jan 10, 2003)

*TtT -*

Had to! :wink:


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Durocab1 said:


> Great pics! I'm gonna have to shoot more forward myself!
> 
> Hey, how bout a big ol' bull elk structure!?



http://www.bowhunting.net/NAspecies/elk2.html


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## bubba101st (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks for bringing this up. I will use it to have the ever so important talk with my son and wife before we go on thier first hunt.


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## D-TRAIN (Dec 1, 2004)

so why do we think we want to hit right behind the front leg? seems like you can aim straight up the leg. Am I wrong?


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## Misfire (Jun 12, 2004)

bowhunter_07 said:


> so why do we think we want to hit right behind the front leg? seems like you can aim straight up the leg. Am I wrong?


I believe there are a few reasons. 

1. If you aim behind the leg you reduce the risk of hitting the femur, scapula, etc.... 

2. If you aim at the leg and hit forward you don't have as large a margin of error. Shooting right behind the leg offers a larger "strike zone" fore and aft of a center lung hit. 

3. Your theory, while correct, would only apply on a broadside shot. On a quarting away animal you wouldn't want to aim for the front leg or "pocket". You would want to aim a few ribs behind it. 

Good Luck!

.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Seems like it is time to bring this back to the top.......

Remember to not only shoot where you want the arrow to enter but more importantly where you want it to exit ! 

Study deer anatomy ! 

And lastly.......*FOCUS As if your life depended on it ! *


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## Charlieeasy (Aug 8, 2004)

*Shot Placement*

Jerry,
AWESOME job. I truly hope that the young/old bowhunters will
look at this. The average/young bowhunters DON'T know how the
front leg bone is located in reference to heart/lungs. REALLY glad
you posted picture when front leg moving forward. BTW CONGRATS
on Elk, enjoyed the vidio...Take Care....Chuck


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

So what do ya have to hit to get a really good blood trail? 

Defination of really good blood trail, One I don't have to bend over to see. 

How do I do it?????


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## Charlieeasy (Aug 8, 2004)

*Don't know how*

Bees,
Not good enough on computer to do. Hope someone can put
one of those red x on spot where to hit. On buck facing left.
Would want to exit right in front of right leg. Double lung,
and top of heart....Chuck


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

The first important thing is to *know the anatomy *of the animal you're hunting, in this case we are talking deer. Knowing where the vitals are, the bones, arteries are all key to killing a deer fast and finding it easier. 
Shot placement is a game of angles. Shooting a deer from a treestand 25' up is different than being on the ground. When I aim on an animal, I am very focused! Focused on where I want the arrow to enter and exit! I think alot of people dont focus on both and only on the entry. I believe this is one of the main reasons for lost deer along with the lack of education on the anatomy. There is alot of talk about the "void", there is NO VOID folks.....it just means you missed the vitals and arrowed the backstraps.....plain and simple, the shot was too high. 
Training before the season is a great help and using 3-D deer like McKenzie as an example are very helpful! Practice from all angles you expect and dont expect to shoot from. How many times has a deer surprised you and came in from a direction you weren't ready for. When you get down from shooting to retrieve your arrows, look at the entrance and the exit and picture in your mind what vitals you would have hit (yep, back to knowing animal anatomy knowledge). 
Going back to focusing.......you can not shoot the "whole deer"! You have to focus (blank out all thoughts that are not connected with shooting the deer) and FOCUS on the spot where you want the arrow to enter after you have decided where you want it to exit. You can not go wrong with putting the shot behind the leg in the "arm pit" as I call it on broadside and slightly quartering away shots (not severe 1/4ering away shots).
Be patient.....this was one of my problems as I was maturing into a veteran. I would rush the shot instead of waiting for it to happen. Wait for the best spot such as a deer might be 1/4ering toward you a tad and you think I can make that shot, so you shoot. Now this is a deadly shot but not a good shot for us as far as tracking. You will most likely hit one lung going in, catch the liver and out thru the gut. This deer WILL die! But it can run far and leave no bloodtrail. I've done it and will never do it again! Just not worth it! Wait til the deer takes another step or more and now you have a broadside or 1/4ering away slightly shot and there is less chance of the animal busting you as you draw.
Try to picture a deer with a line or the equator as I call it across the deer horizontally. Depending on where you are, you want the exit hole, below the equator if possible. Remember there are cases where this isnt always the gospel as an example would be shooting a deer uphill from you. Your entrance shot will be lower than the exit in most cases. But still you have a low hole to work with and it sure helps in bloodtrailing! 
I would like to keep writing but my g-kids are bugging me to play so here are a few articles worth reading. Scour the net for information, it is out there!
Practice on that 3-D deer the way you'll be hunting. It will pay divends in the long run for you :wink: 

http://www.deerhunting.com/articles/articles.aspx?articles_id=513
http://www.bowhunter-ed.com/course/ch7_shot_placement.htm
http://home.adelphia.net/~geffert/shotpl.htm
http://www.huntingnet.com/staticpages/staticpage_detail.aspx?id=8
http://www.camo-store.com/whitetail_deer_shot_placement.htm
http://www.huntingusa.tripod.com/shotplacement.html


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## minnow (Mar 2, 2006)

My thought process on this is a little hard to explain, but I'll try. 

My aiming point is not so much where I want the arrow to enter or exit but where I want the arrow to bisect the the deer's chest cavity. If you put a vertical line directly down through the center of a deer, even with the back side of the deers front legs, then bisected that with a horizontal line just above 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the deers chest. This is the "geographical center" of the deer's "boiler house". This point is just above the heart and through the center of the lung area. If you look at a 3d model of a deer, such as a 3d target, and practice imagining where this center point is from different directions you will see where you need to aim to get your arrow to bisect this area. A low hit from this point puts you in the heart with at least one lung, depending on the severity of the angle. A left or right miss is still in the lungs as is a high miss. A direct hit takes out both lungs and the arteries coming off the top of the heart. Severing these arteries, I believe, leads to a quicker recovery than a pure heart shot. When these arteries are severed the deers blood pressure drops immediatly to 0 and it quickly loses consiousness, while it's heart continues to pump, making for a better blood trail. While a shot through the top portion of the heart results in the same thing, the bottom of the heart is primarily muscle mass and cutting through this results in a deer that can stay on its feet much longer. Also, aiming directly at the heart and missing low will get you only brisket and a tallowed up arrow.
When I'm drawing on a deer, I'm not concentrating on an exterior aiming point, but rather concentrating on the "geographical center" of the "boiler house". Along with picturing your aimng point, regardless of the method you use, you must exercise restraint and wait for the proper shot angle. A "quartering toward" risks hitting heavy bone and limited penetration or getting only one lung and an exit from the paunch that leaves little or no blood trail. The same goes for a deer that is quartering sharply away. In order to get into the "boiler house' from this angle the arrow needs to enter behind the liver and diaphram, again limited blood trail, and penetrate much farther in order to give you an exit wound for easy trailing. Too many of the "I can't find my deer" threads on here are the result of poor shot choices. If you hit an unseen twig or just make a bad shot that is one thing, we all have it happen, we're human. But to take risky shot angles is the result of poor planning or decision making. Sorry I got long winded, just had a lot of stuff to say on this topic.


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## EASTON94 (Jan 25, 2003)

That is a cool link bowart, and an excellent subject to bring up Jerry/NJ!! I actually learned some things on this thread myself!! '94


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## OverMyHead (Dec 8, 2005)

I read a magazine article about preparing for the shot...
concentrate on the target...the target is just a couple of lungs moving through the woods.

kinda wierd but you know it is not a bad idea.

so why do many of the 3D targets show the entire kill zone behind the leg? Makes no sense. I aim for right behind the leg, if I miss forward a few inches it still isn't gonna hit bone.

I'm a newbie to this but it worked excellent friday!
:darkbeer:


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Seems like time to bring this back up as a refresher.......


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## Norwegian Woods (Apr 23, 2006)

I aim 1/2 way up in a straight line from the hump on the back(from the shoulderblades) Maybe a bit back from this point. Doesn`t matter what angle, you will hit about the middle of the boilerroom. With a bow, you need to consider bones and at what angles you should not take a shot.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

With many posts about shoulder shots and other bad hits, it is time to revive this thread especially for newbies.

I got to thinking back over my 38 years of bowhunting and can only vividly remember 1 (one) deer, an alpha doe that I shot thru the scapulas and that was about 15 years ago. No, I was not aiming for there.....not sure if she ducked or what, but she didnt go far. But with over xxx kills (someone once accused me of bragging, so I will leave it at xxx) I can count on 1 hand the amount of bad hits I have made, maybe 2 hands if I go wayyyyyyy back but my point is so many times we *think* a shot is perfect and it is not. I still believe that more bowhunters need to know the anatomy of their quarry throughly to make consistent killing shots. Yes, I know and agree at times crap happens and even the best of them will make a bad hit or something happen so I am not saying it is a perfect world. Good hunting and may all your blood trails be short and happy!


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## Norwegian Woods (Apr 23, 2006)

Make this a sticky!


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## bowtechguy19 (Nov 10, 2004)

Great thread, loved the shot placement game! My dad always wanted me to aim 4-6 inches behind the crease in the shoulder on broadside shots when I was younger. Just because of shooting less poundage and not wanting me to get into the shoulder too much.

Since I have become older and shoot a much much heavier set up, I have moved my shot placement closer to straight up from the front leg. This gets me a straight shot at almost dead center on the lungs. Also I am confident that even if I did hit the shoulder I still have enough punch to get through, especially with a fixed blade head.

Also note, that each of these diagrams proves that the gap often referred to as "no-man's land" simply does not exist. Maybe if you were shooting an arrow tipped with a field point and shooting from the ground, you could slip it between the spine and lungs without touching either. But no way to sneak one through there with a broadhead, especially from an elevated position. 

BTG19


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## slinger09 (Oct 11, 2004)

Great info Jerry. Maybe we will get less blaming the broadhead on these "perfect" shots.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Jerry/NJ said:


> The first important thing is to *know the anatomy *of the animal you're hunting, in this case we are talking deer. Knowing where the vitals are, the bones, arteries are all key to killing a deer fast and finding it easier.
> Shot placement is a game of angles. Shooting a deer from a treestand 25' up is different than being on the ground. When I aim on an animal, I am very focused! Focused on where I want the arrow to enter and exit! I think alot of people dont focus on both and only on the entry. I believe this is one of the main reasons for lost deer along with the lack of education on the anatomy. There is alot of talk about the "void", there is NO VOID folks.....it just means you missed the vitals and arrowed the backstraps.....plain and simple, the shot was too high.
> Training before the season is a great help and using 3-D deer like McKenzie as an example are very helpful! Practice from all angles you expect and dont expect to shoot from. How many times has a deer surprised you and came in from a direction you weren't ready for. When you get down from shooting to retrieve your arrows, look at the entrance and the exit and picture in your mind what vitals you would have hit (yep, back to knowing animal anatomy knowledge).
> Going back to focusing.......you can not shoot the "whole deer"! You have to focus (blank out all thoughts that are not connected with shooting the deer) and FOCUS on the spot where you want the arrow to enter after you have decided where you want it to exit. You can not go wrong with putting the shot behind the leg in the "arm pit" as I call it on broadside and slightly quartering away shots (not severe 1/4ering away shots).
> ...


:bump:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Jerry/NJ said:


> :bump:


Yea, the sticky musta lost it's stick.... :noidea:

It's late season... next summer I'll get em back up on top... :wink: :thumb:


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## phumb (Oct 7, 2006)

okay, a little bump and....what kind of k/e is necessary to get through the shoulder blade?


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## LA Hunter (Mar 3, 2006)

*Gut shot*



bowhunter_07 said:


> so why do we think we want to hit right behind the front leg? seems like you can aim straight up the leg. Am I wrong?


I put my arrow just behind the front leg last week and it was a gut shot. Didn't find the deer. Maybe a little liver?


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

Great post!


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## PAstringking (Dec 8, 2006)

arrowheadtroutm said:


> Great post!


i agree


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## Dusty Britches (Feb 10, 2003)

Thanks, Jerry. When I first started bowhunting, I thought the same way those kids thought and kept getting liver and gut shot deer.


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## shoot low (Jan 24, 2006)

*Sticky this for sure*

Jerry,
Your a class act to post this and such great info,thanks. I think most people grew up hearing (aim just behind the shoulder) this is great for a perfect quartering away shot or a gun shot but not always the best for all angles. The best advice you made in my opinion is 
1) know a deer's anatomy.
2) aim for exit and make it be below the equator.
3) focus as if your life depends on it.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Sticky.....is it that time yet to glue this one down? :wink:


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## cptleo1 (May 30, 2007)

Years ago Easton Arrows had a veterinarian that went to the shows with them to answer questions about shot placement.

He had what amounted to a 3-d target on a table sliced in 1/2 (right down the spine).

Over that were 4 acetates
a. with fur
b. with bone structure
c. with organ placement
d. with blood vessel

He could and and would lift off the acetates to show locations of different things. He would hold an arrow @ different angles to show the good the bad and the ugly of different shots.

It was amazing how few people knew where the leg and shoulder bones actually were.

What I took away from that man was the perfect kill shot: 
"FROM A TREE STAND"

He taught that the top of the crease behind the deers shoulder was the secret to it all.

He felt that from a tree stand if you can see/hit the top of the crease, take the shot and you will get the deer every time.

If the animal is quartering toward you at to much of an angle the round part of the shoulder will hide the crease - DON'T SHOOT !!!!

If the animal is quartering away at to much of an angle the roundness of his body will hide the crease = DON'T SHOOT

If the animal is broadside and you can't see the top of the crease =DON'T SHOOT IT IS TO DARK

He really did not worry about trying to aim for where the arrow comes out -
it makes for to much guess work.

If you control where the arrow goes in, the height of the tree stand takes care of calculating where the arrow comes out.

If I did my part I have never had a animal get away using this system 

I really like keeping things simple and with a gun or a bow this is about as good as it gets.

IMHO.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

I HOPE to be getting some deer soon to cut open as best as possible and show the vitals/organs intact, I'll post the pics when I do.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Jerry/NJ said:


> Sticky.....is it that time yet to glue this one down? :wink:


Indeed it is Jerry, thanks for the reminder... :thumb: :wink:

Now.. where'd I put that glue gun.. :noidea: :confused3:


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## ShepFL (Aug 28, 2006)

Great post Jerry!

It is good for us all to refresh our tools and mind sets. Sometimes as we get more experienced we fall into one of two traps a) we become complacent or b) it becomes 2nd nature to us and we fail to understand why things that are OBVIOUS to us are so confusing to others.

I got the tail end of a hunting show last night (closing the gap I think) and of the 5 min. I watched at the end that JACKASS had no right to be in woods much less bow hunting ukey: He could not come to a full draw so did a "Wild, Wild West" move and pointed his bow at the nice buck. His bow was slightly above his waist and he released  Tried to justify the poor shot by saying *"it is was the only shot he could make on such a trophy buck. . . "*

That shot and that idiot should have never been aired as ethical hunting. The Hunter should come here to AT and learn some things on anatomy, shot placement, ethics and when to take a shot and when to let them walk.

Thanks for the great post and educating all and reminding/re-educating some of us old birds. 

ShepFL (FL Hunter Ed Instructor) 
the


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## Flintlock1776 (Aug 19, 2006)

*That's cool*



Jerry/NJ said:


> 1 more


Very nice pic!


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## WaterboyUT (Mar 11, 2006)

Awesome stuff.


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## Rkhunter01 (Jan 29, 2007)

cptleo1 said:


> Years ago Easton Arrows had a veterinarian that went to the shows with them to answer questions about shot placement.
> 
> He had what amounted to a 3-d target on a table sliced in 1/2 (right down the spine).
> 
> ...



someone should post a pic of this crease, and where abouts to shoot at when broadside with a small x or that. 

also if you are in a stand and the deer is close, should you be shooting higher over the crease or not?
i had a shot last year right above the shoulder that ended up in hitting the right above where the leg was and getting stuck only to penetrate maybe 4 inches. Was the extreme angle placing the arrow right into the shoulder?


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## stuckonstoopid (Jul 1, 2006)

thanks to everyone who contributed to this post. i had it in my head that i was shooting behind the front leg. last year was my first year and it was unsuccessful. probably a good thing as i would rather kill than wound. again thanks for this post it helped me a ton.


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## Gaylord Focker (Sep 16, 2007)

EASTON94 said:


> That is a cool link bowart, and an excellent subject to bring up Jerry/NJ!! I actually learned some things on this thread myself!! '94


I clicked bowarts link...didnt find anything cool, it seemed like an ad link aka redirect spam site.

Good thread otherwise...lots of excellent illustrations of heart/lung in relation to front shoulder bone. >Myself< I aim deeper into the front shoulder and have had great success using fixed blade heads. Not so great using mechs and thats why I refuse to screw a mech on my arrows..but thats just me.


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## EASTON94 (Jan 25, 2003)

Gaylord Focker said:


> I clicked bowarts link...didnt find anything cool, it seemed like an ad link aka redirect spam site.
> 
> Good thread otherwise...lots of excellent illustrations of heart/lung in relation to front shoulder bone. >Myself< I aim deeper into the front shoulder and have had great success using fixed blade heads. Not so great using mechs and thats why I refuse to screw a mech on my arrows..but thats just me.



Yeah his link obviously got messed up....'94


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## public land (Sep 15, 2007)

*arrow placment*

I can't wait oct 13th is opening day here in the southern zone of NY. I now have a refreshed image of arrow placment thank you all this should be stressed more ... that interactive game was cool also good luck and remember safety first.


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## nedly (Apr 19, 2007)

Wow, all great information above. After my share of what I thought were good shots, resulting in poor penetration, poor blood trail or long blood trails and taking forever to recover deer, I have been obsessed over the past 5 years with a quick archery kill and recovery. In a nut shell, I have dissected my kills, studied everything I could read, watch and test. For shot placement, what I have learned, if you want a short thick blood trail and you want to watch your game fall to the ground, slice the arteries coming off the top of the heart and you will be amazed. With practice, you have to be super confident and aware of your shooting capabilities


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## Chad L. (Aug 9, 2005)

*up the leg*

Deer, elk, moose, sheep, and antelope all have one thing in common. That is shot placement. If you go straight up the leg up to about the bottom third most won't get out of sight! Behind the leg is the most common gut shut waiting to happen. I've been on many "I double lunged him" shots that ended up being liver or guts.

Good luck


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## lotalota (Apr 28, 2007)

Rkhunter01 said:


> someone should post a pic of this crease, and where abouts to shoot at when broadside with a small x or that.


I too would like to see a picture of that crease. I'm not entirely sure based on the description where it is.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

The 'crease' is referring to the line formed by the intersection of the rear edge of the front leg muscles, where they cross the ribcage and join the shoulder. If you are shooting down on a deer, this is a good rule. But some shoot up and down, even from a stand, so, where to aim on this line is debatable, based on angle of trajectory. If you go straight up the leg, bout a third up, as mentioned, here is what ya get... :thumb: :wink:


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## lotalota (Apr 28, 2007)

IGluIt4U said:


> If you go straight up the leg, bout a third up, as mentioned, here is what ya get... :thumb: :wink:


Thank you. I see that now. From your earlier post you quoted "From a Tree stand". Do you know if the same shot placement applies from a ground blind on a horizontal shot?


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

lotalota said:


> Thank you. I see that now. From your earlier post you quoted "From a Tree stand". Do you know if the same shot placement applies from a ground blind on a horizontal shot?


From a treestand, shooting down on a deer, I aim for an entry point a bit higher on the shoulder... my goal is for the arrow to pass thru the heart/lungs at the center of the deer's body. So, shooting down on it, I aim higher on the shoulder than I would if it were level with me. The pic I posted is a good aiming point for level shots, but.. if you pick that spot on a downhill shot at a severe angle, it is not high enough, as the arrow will be only barely passing thru the nearside lung.

Here is a quartering pic where I can draw some lines... :wink:

This is where I shoot em from up/down/level angles. Notice the entry point as it crosses the outside of the body on the near side.. the entry points are quite different.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

If you pick the same aiming spot at about a third up and inline with the leg, you may be ok on an uphill angle, but.. on a downhill angle, IMO, you are too shallow in your shot. Here is where you wind up if you shoot the same spot from an angle... :wink:


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

I am hoping to get a road kill in good condition and cut away the skin, etc. to show the exact placement of bones, organs, etc. on a real deer. As soon as I do it, I'll post the pics.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Jerry/NJ said:


> I am hoping to get a road kill in good condition and cut away the skin, etc. to show the exact placement of bones, organs, etc. on a real deer. As soon as I do it, I'll post the pics.


Do yourself a favor and use the wife's car for that... :nono: :chortle:

Great idea Jerry.. I think that's be most helpful... :thumb:


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## Lago625 (Sep 12, 2007)

Jerry,
Great Info! I learned a lot. Thanks!


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## Swamp Buck (Sep 6, 2007)

*Helped Me*

Now I know not be too scared of the sholder blade.......thanks!


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## TWOWITHONE (Oct 3, 2007)

Thank,s Jerry N.J. for the pics its always good to see where you shouild aim at a deer especially if its a jump the bowstring deer. Thanks


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

http://www.biggamehunt.net/sections/Firearm/Six-Tips-for-Better-Shot-Placement-10010711.html


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## HeartLunger5405 (Oct 19, 2007)

What a great topic. I'm learning this site is full of useful knowledge.


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## Paul Morris (Mar 1, 2004)

Thanks for the great post and information Jerry!

I do have to admit, seeing the Bull Elk reminded me of getting skunked this year though:embara: Only 10 more months till next Elk season!


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## OLDHOOTOWL (Feb 9, 2003)

*Sticky Request*

I'm about half blind, but didn't see a sticky on trailing. Would seem to be a good idea to have a sticky with simple concise instructions on different hits, how to recognize them and what to do. Could leave it up year round to help guys.


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## michihunter (Mar 2, 2003)

OLDHOOTOWL said:


> I'm about half blind, but didn't see a sticky on trailing. Would seem to be a good idea to have a sticky with simple concise instructions on different hits, how to recognize them and what to do. Could leave it up year round to help guys.


Gary, I posted a great article from Woody Williams awhile back and it was requested by several people to be placed as a sticky. I'll pull it up again and see if your request has any pull.


TRACKING WOUNDED DEER
by Woody Williams

Less than a minute has elapsed since you've shot one of the biggest bucks you have ever seen. It happened so fast it's hard to believe. What you do now may determine whether or not you'll recover your buck.

Your first impulse is to bail out of your treestand and take off after him. Depending upon your arrow placement, this could be a big mistake. If a deer is not hit well you could spook him and make recovery next to impossible.

Knowing where the animal is hit makes a difference in how you track him. For this reason, a bowhunter should use brightly colored fletching, such as orange or red.

The chest of the deer contains the lungs and the heart which, when hit, produce the quickest kill. The lungs are easily reached by an arrow, protected only by vulnerable rib bones. The heart is low in the body and somewhat protected by the deer's leg bone.

The following describes types of hits and how you should track for each.

* A lung-shot deer will run hard 50 to 65 yards. After that he will
usually walk until he falls. The blood will sometimes have tiny bubbles in it. This blood trail usually gets better as you track the deer. However, if the deer is hit high in the lungs, the blood trail may sometimes become light and even disappear completely. The deer could be "filling up" inside with blood, showing very little external bleeding. The hair from the lung area is coarse and brown with black tips. The deer will usually go down in less than 125 yards. Give the deer 30 minutes before tracking.

* A heart-shot deer will sometimes jump wildly when hit. The blood trail may be sparse for the first 20 yards or so. A heart shot deer may track as much as a quarter of a mile, depending on what part of the heart is damaged. The usual is less than 125 yards. The hair from this shot will be long brown or grayish guard hairs. Again, a 30 minute wait is advised. But, if while trailing you find where he has bedded back off and wait an hour before taking up the trail again.

* A liver-shot deer. The liver lies against the diaphragm in the
approximate center of the deer. It is a definite killing shot. The blood trail will be decent to follow and the deer should bed down and die within 200 yards, if not pushed. A one-hour wait is best. The hair from the liver area is brownish gray and much shorter than the hair from the lung area. If you push the deer out of his bed, back off and wait another hour.

* A gut-shot deer is probably the most difficult to recover because of the poor blood trail and the hunter's impatience to wait him out. A lot of bowhunters want to hurry up and find the deer. Since the liver and stomach are close together, it is possible that the deer will go down and die quickly if the shot also penetrates the liver. If the deer is dead in an hour, he will still be dead in 4 hours. Have patience, he will not go anywhere. Wait him out for at least 4 hours. Wait overnight if the deer is
shot in the evening.

When a deer is shot in the stomach area, he will usually take several short jumps and commence walking or running. His back will usually hunch up and his legs will be spread wide. The hair from this wound is brownish gray and short. The lower the shot is on the animal, the lighter colored the hair will be. The blood trail is usually poor with small pieces of ingested material (stomach contents). If the intestines are punctured there will be green slimy material or feces Take your bow with you because a second shot might be required.

* A spine-shot deer will usually drop in his tracks or hobble off. Either way, a second shot will probably be required to finish off the deer. If a spine-shot deer hobbles off, wait a half-hour and track slowly and quietly. Look for the deer bedded down.

* A neck-shot deer will either die in 100 yards or he will recover from the wound. The lower portion of the neck contains the windpipe, neck bone (spine), and carotid (jugular) arteries. If the arteries are hit, the deer will run hard and drop in less than 100 yards. The blood trail will be easy to follow. A shot above the neck bone will give you a good blood trail for about 150 to 200 yards before quitting. The deer will more than likely recover to be hunted again.

* A hip-shot deer. A large artery (femoral) runs down the inside of each deer leg. This artery is protected from the side by the leg bones. The femoral artery is most often severed from the rear or at an angle. If this artery is cut, the bleeding will be profuse and the deer will usually be found in less than 100 yards. The ham of a deer is also rich in veins with a lot of blood. A hip-shot deer should be tracked immediately. Track him slowly and quietly to keep him moving (walking). If you jump him and he runs, back off for a few minutes then continue trailing. You want him to walk, not run. A walking deer is easier to trail.

* An artery-shot deer will almost always go down in less than 100 yards. The aortic artery runs just under the backbone from heart to hips, where it branches to become the femoral arteries. The heart also pumps blood to the brain through the carotid (jugular) arteries.

Sever any of these arteries and you've got yourself a deer. There is one catch, these arteries are tough. It takes a sharp broadhead to cut through them. A dull broadhead will just push them aside. Keep your broadheads sharp! Give the deer half an hour before tracking.
GENERAL TRACKING TIPS

* After shooting the deer, stay in your stand and be quiet for the
recommended time. A noise might push your deer away. He could be bedded down less than 100 yards away.

* I have found it very helpful to tie a piece of pink surveyor ribbon around my stand tree at eye level from where I shot. After noting several terrain features near where the deer was standing and where it ran too, I tie on the ribbon before coming down. From the ground looking back up to the ribbon, I can get a better visual for locating exactly where the deer was and went.

* Before beginning the tracking, mark where you shot the deer with a piece of white toilet paper hung on a branch.

* Mark the trail periodically with more toilet paper as you track. This will give you a line on the deer's travel.

* When you find the arrow, check for hair, tallow, blood, etc. This will give you a good clue on how to track. Example: Tallow and slime means you should wait 4 hours.

* Check for blood carefully, walking off to the side of the run.

* Look for blood on trees, saplings, and leaves that are about the same height as the wound. Blood will sometimes rub off the body.

* If tracking as a group, spread out a little. Keep noise to a minimum. In tracking, sometimes "too many cooks can spoil the stew." It would be better if only 2 or 3 people tracked the deer. If the blood trail runs out, you can always get more help to search for the deer

* While tracking a deer that you have shot and you jump a deer and it flags its tail, it's probably not your deer. A wounded deer will very seldom "flag." BUT - check it out anyway.

* Gut-shot deer have a habit of going to water. If you lose a gut-shot deer's trail, check out the water holes in the area. He could be down by one.

* Tracking at night presents special problems with visibility. The blood and the deer will both be hard to see. A Coleman gas lantern will help a lot in both cases. If the deer is not hit well, and no rain is forecast, wait until morning. If he is dead in 10 minutes or 4 hours, he will still be dead in the morning.

* Take a compass bearing to where you last saw the deer, and another one to where you last heard any noise from it's flight. It might prove very helpful.

* It helps to have someone who did not shoot the deer to help with the blood trial. Many an experienced hunter in his excitement misses things.

* Stay off of the blood trail, and use a small piece of tolled paper to mark each spot

* Get down on your hands and knees when a blood trail is hard to see it helps. From this angle while night tracking you can shine the light in the direction of travel and often see blood that does not show when standing over it.

* Look at the bottom of leaves on branches at deer body height. Sometimes as the branch slides along the body of a deer it is the under side of the leaf that picks up the blood.

* You will often find a gut shot deer or liver shot deer dead in the water not just beside it. so look for an ear or the side of the deer in deeper water too.

* Some shots that look good may be one lung or a poor liver hit because of the angle. These deer can take several hours to die. Be careful about pushing them to soon, since they will rarely leave much blood sign if they are jumped when bedded.

* Look ahead as you blood trail for deer parts and movement. Your deer may still be alive and you might be able to get a second shot or back off with out spooking it.

* Look for disturbed leaves and broken twigs as well as for the blood sign on hard to follow blood trails.

* It is often hard to follow a blood trail in grass. It seems that the blood can fall all the way to the ground without hitting a single blade of grass.

* Look for clusters of ants, flies and daddy longlegs. You can find small drops of blood because these bugs are feeding on it.

* Often times when the blood trail seems to end you will find the animal off to one side and not in the same direction of travel.

* Listen for birds like magpies, jays, and crows. Sometimes they make a ruckus where the animal lies dead.

* Be persistent!

* A dog can often prove very useful if legal. Even your house pet. They can see with their nose what we can not see with our eyes.

* Use your nose. sometimes you can smell a deer you can't see. A gut shot is even more likely to have a smell.

* When trailing at night use a couple of the Chem Lights that you can get at WalMart for less than a buck. You don't use these as lights to see blood, but they are hung on limbs at the last blood found. That way nobody has to stand on the last blood and everyone can easily see where the last blood found is at


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## OLDHOOTOWL (Feb 9, 2003)

Good job. That'll do.


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## plowman (Sep 4, 2007)

cool


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## DougKMN (Nov 7, 2006)

I'd also like to see a sticky on calling. 

The only thing is I hate it when the entire first page of a board is stickies. Maybe a better solution is to generate some FAQ pages and sticky a table of contents with a series of links.


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## OLDHOOTOWL (Feb 9, 2003)

FAQ pages would be good on stuff like calling not to have too many stickys. 

I would like to see tuning and tracking stickys, those to me are the most important and more posts are made concerning them than anything else.


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## spoco57 (Aug 31, 2005)

The Woody Williams article shows up each season at least once. 

I agree, make it a sticky, it is THAT good.


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## OLDHOOTOWL (Feb 9, 2003)

ttt


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## LetThemGrow (Apr 2, 2004)

Great reading!


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## OLDHOOTOWL (Feb 9, 2003)

Apparently little interest.


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## kcamarata (Aug 7, 2007)

Great Article! Thanks for posting it. This is definitely worth a sticky.

If I remember correctly the Chuck Adams BowHunter's Digest (3rd edition?) has a section on shot location and the importance of understanding the placement in order to recover the animal. It also talks about the sound an arrow makes when it hits different parts of the animals body and what you can know about your shot based on the sound. It might be worth posting a summary of that info....if I can find it.


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## cordwood (Feb 25, 2007)

Maybe it could be combined with Jerrys "Shot Placement" sticky...should go hand in hand and not take up any more sticky room. 

...then again, I never look at the stickys cus they are always...well stuck there. ...and long ...and boring lain:


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## kcamarata (Aug 7, 2007)

Okay....so it wasn't the Bowhunter's Digest section I was thinking of (although there is some good stuff in there as well. It was a field guide article on Cabela's called Immediately After the Shot (also written by Chuck Adams)



> The impact sound of an arrow can tell you a lot. Fringe muscle hits and paunch hits produce almost no sound. Heart/lung hits produce a dull, hollow, watermelon-like plunk. Impact with bone heavier than ribs usually makes a crack like a baseball impacting concrete. When arrows hit heavy bone enclosed by thick muscle, as in the ham, this "crack" is muted to a "crunch". Seasoned bowhunters listen to arrow impact, and know from past experience where the shaft has probably hit, and where it did not.


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## OLDHOOTOWL (Feb 9, 2003)

Very good k, all this is good stuff that should be readily available for guys who hit animals.

Funny how there are so few posts here, where with a bashing thread guys aren't bashful about chiming in.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Somebody callin me? :noidea:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Tell ya what.. since we really don't like a page full of sticky's...how about if I merge this thread with Jerry's shot placement and retitle it Deer shot placement and tracking? :thumb:


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## OLDHOOTOWL (Feb 9, 2003)

Thats great IG. THANKS.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Ok, here goes..... :tongue:


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## OLDHOOTOWL (Feb 9, 2003)

That great. And if Jer minds, well, I'll, he doesn't even want to know what I'll do.

One more suggestion if I may. Would think you should remove unnecessary posts such as mine. And put the most important concise stuff the first posts, such as the deer diagram the first post and the Woody Williams trailing advice the second, if you please.

That way guys could find out the gist of it really quick.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

OLDHOOTOWL said:


> That great. And if Jer minds, well, I'll, he doesn't even want to know what I'll do.
> 
> One more suggestion if I may. Would think you should remove unnecessary posts such as mine. And put the most important concise stuff the first posts, such as the deer diagram the first post and the Woody Williams trailing advice the second, if you please.
> 
> That way guys could find out the gist of it really quick.


I don't think he'll mind.. it's a good tie in to his thread... :wink:

Now.. the moving of posts is a little trickier.. I'll have to look into that.. they are listed based on the date of posting, don't know if I can change that.. but, lemme look into it.. I can remove some of the extraneous posts though... :wink:


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## BrickCityMedic (Oct 30, 2007)

*so what about bone placement and bows???*

OK,

So I have been reading these posts and as I am new to hunting (but not to the study of anatomy) I have a FEW QUESTIONS... :teeth::teeth::teeth:...

1. I assume that deer anatomy (lungs, heart, liver) is similar to people anatomy? As in, the mechanisms of injury and subsequent physiological consequences are the same? (i.e. a lung shot in deer causes a hemothorax, pnuemothorax, or a combination of the two?)

If this is true, and the pathophysiology of deer and people is the same, why doesn't a gut shot kill the deer? Poeple that "bleed into their belly" in an injury comparbale to an arrow shot will, inevitably, die...

Also, it was posted that when you shoot with the bow, you have to take into consideration the presence of ribs in the way, as a bow/arrow produces much less kinetic energy than a firearm and would need more enery than it has to penetrate and rib, two lungs, a heart, and come out the other side (with possibly another rib on the way out.) So, what special considerations does one take or how does one adjust a shot in order to compensate for the presence of the ribs???


Thank you guys 

~Yael


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## nelsonb6 (Sep 6, 2007)

*all great info*

All good information... I recently screwed up (ashamed but admit my failures) a shot at a big doe, perfect, 30 yards 1/4ing away. I'm not new to this, bowhunting 15 years, I've never won anything but I'm a competetive target archer... long story short hit the magic spot but the deer turned enough jumping the string that the broadhead hit one lung and went through the opposite shoulder. I have no shortage of kinetic energy and was using a Rage 2 blade. It buried the arrow so that the lumenok went in. The stupid part, on my part, is that there was a 130 inch 10 point that followed her after the shot... yes, stupid shooting does during the lock-down phase of the rut, but the owner allows no firearm hunting and I have to go back to work tomorrow. Moral of the story, I didn't put the arrow far enough back on the 1/4ing away shot so it resulted in a single lung shot. Found the deer two days later following the turkey buzzards. The rage did the trick, as I never had any shortage of blood, left her lay overnight but rain had killed my trail. End result was that the buck must have pushed her all night, putting her in a thicket about 100 yards from where I quit looking on the neighbor's property.

Just food for thought, I've been doing it a long time and know to shoot farther back... for some reason I didn't on this occasion and the result was gut-wrenching. Another thing to think about. Hopefully this doesn't happen to any of you.


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## turkeyinstinct (Apr 4, 2007)

WOW!! There is a lot of great info here I wish I would have read it before I liver shot my buck last night:sad::sad: A buddy and I have looked every inch of his property and the blood stops leading towards a lake but we dident see him on the edge or as far as we could see in the lake. I had a perfect broadside 20yd shot on him and I thought the lungs were just behind the front legs but I was very wrong and I put the arrow through a spot I dident intend too..I hate myself every bit for loosing this deer I cant even get back in the stand


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

That time of year, let's get it back out ! :wink:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

We'll keep it out for a while.. :cheers:


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## Gunman (Aug 5, 2008)

The best advise I have ever gotten was to not think of a point on the deer, but to think of how the arrow is going to pass through. Look at the deer, think if I hit here where will the arrow exit? That will give you an idea of where the arrow will travel inside the deer.


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## Tolla (Aug 18, 2008)

Awesome info....I hope to be making these very same decisions this season on a New Mexico elk!


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## bobbal (Sep 15, 2004)

*Fantastic info*

This thread is priceless info. 
Thanks to all
Bob


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## SandMan835 (Jun 3, 2007)

*shot*

I asked a similar question and was sent this pic it shows the relative location of the leg and shoulder bone in relation to the deer I hope this helps


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## SandMan835 (Jun 3, 2007)

*Shot*

Sorry this is the pic


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## flybub (Nov 2, 2007)

Sandman, What is the point circled in red? What is the wound you are pointing at? Thanks


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## coldfront (Sep 14, 2007)

Somebody mentioned that the "void" does not exist. I respectfully beg to differ and only because it happened to me. 2 years ago, for earn a buck purposes, I drew back on a doe yearling. Ok, it was a fawn. I was 25 feet up and I put a 3 blade muzzy through it and figured I had my tag. I waited a half hour because the shot looked pretty good and those tender little ones aren't all that tough to kill. I didn't see much blood so i went out the next morning to recover my deer. Couldn't find it. 2 weeks later, I am in the same tree and the same deer comes by. I spined it this time.I could tell it was the same little deer by the messed up fur where I hit it earlier. After registering and skinning it, I discovered a neat hole well under the spine. Deer was in fine shape. I guess I would call that a void shot. That is my one and only void shot in 50 plus deer. Uncommon BUT possible. Mrt.


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## Big Lew (Oct 17, 2008)

*deer front leg*

Great article Jerry! Far too many archers hurry their shots before making sure they have a clear shot of the lungs without the leg being in the way. When hunting from the ground, as I do, it is very important to wait until the near leg is straight or forward a bit before releasing an arrow.


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## Big Lew (Oct 17, 2008)

*shot placement*

Great article Jerry, and much needed! Far too often bow hunters shoot,in their excitment, before actually making sure their arrow has a clear path. Your diagram shows how little room there is to the lungs when the closest front leg is rearward. An animal quartering slightly toward you with it's near front leg back almost completely offers almost no safe lung shot, especially if shooting from ground level.


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## mdmountainman (Sep 8, 2008)

BingoFlyer said:


> They may like this game for shot placement, be warned that not all the shots are ethical but must be made before going on and are all makeable.
> http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/FEATURES/ARTICLES/DEER/DEERGEOMETRY/


After playing this game I think it encourages the shot to be too far back. maybe some disagree but on the broadside deer it wanted me to shoot farther back than I would do so, especially after seeing all the pictures in this thread.


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## gdcpony (Oct 16, 2007)

Here is something to remember if you have shot one deer out of a group. The other deer will "push" the wounded one by staying on the move. This can cause issues if you shoot a doe with a yearling or the yearling. The deer may go allot further than you'd think. Plus now there are more deer to be jumped while tracking.
I had a yearling go over 1/2 mile because it ran close to a house and got spooked again by their dog into running further, and I jumped it's mother while tracking and it was right near her dead. The shot was from front to rear and complete pass through. Lung, liver, and stomach all hit (arrow missed the heart by just a touch) at once and that thing still went forever. I can only put that on the dog and the other deer.


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## Bullhound (Feb 5, 2004)

mdmountainman said:


> After playing this game I think it encourages the shot to be too far back. maybe some disagree but on the broadside deer it wanted me to shoot farther back than I would do so, especially after seeing all the pictures in this thread.


very true. The "perfect shot" in that Bowsite game does in fact get people shooting further back than I agree with.


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## SandMan835 (Jun 3, 2007)

*Info*



flybub said:


> Sandman, What is the point circled in red? What is the wound you are pointing at? Thanks


Both shots are kill shots the first mark is a visual representation of the bone in relation to the leg/shoulder as it is. This shot is (IMO) threading the needle as it were between bones resulting in a lung / heart shot.

The second the one the guy is pointing at is the better of the two allowing a clean lung shot without the possibility of a heavy bone hit this guarantees penetration with out the risk of a shoulder bone hit.

PS. I found this picture on AT and thought it would help show the leg bone relationship of the deer


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## hoyt270 (Dec 21, 2007)

cool


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## James Luke (Apr 29, 2007)

Thanks for this.


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## Russelville (Aug 8, 2008)

thanks


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## cbeicker (Nov 13, 2007)

So I have a question along the same lines of shot placement: Say you shoot a deer with inadequate shot placement and there is no blood trail. What are the methods that you use to track the deer. I personally like to use a search that involves going back and forth along parallel lines moving slowly away from the place I shot the deer. I learned this technique in search&rescue certification for SCUBA diving. It's not foolproof but I think it works pretty well. 

What are yall's methods of tracking when there is no trail?


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## bowhunterbobbyt (Dec 22, 2008)

Awesome game!!!


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## russ.bro (Dec 18, 2008)

*Great shot placement game*

TTT

great game for 1st of season reveiw.


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

Bump for the season:archery:
Good luck to everybody:thumb:


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## joehunter8301 (Jul 16, 2009)

*Deer shot placement for begggining hunters(and veteran)*

i drew this up for you all to get a better understanding of deer anatomy. its great to look at see thru pics of deer but if you have it outlined on a real deer i think it is more infomal. i hope this helps everyone. the red is outline of the lungs, the yellow is the heart and purple is where the liver sits from your angle. remember from a tree stand the angle of your shot will change due to height. I also attached one picture of a quartering to shot and put a big black x thru it so you can locate it.this shot is not reccommended due to heavy bone obstruction. it is just for you to use as a guide. with a rifle i would take that shot any day but we are talking bow hunting here. good luck and post all your pics.


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## bagel77 (Feb 1, 2008)

joehunter8301 said:


> i drew this up for you all to get a better understanding of deer anatomy. its great to look at see thru pics of deer but if you have it outlined on a real deer i think it is more infomal. i hope this helps everyone. the red is outline of the lungs, the yellow is the heart and purple is where the liver sits from your angle. remember from a tree stand the angle of your shot will change due to height. I also attached one picture of a quartering to shot and put a big black x thru it so you can locate it.this shot is not reccommended due to heavy bone obstruction. it is just for you to use as a guide. with a rifle i would take that shot any day but we are talking bow hunting here. good luck and post all your pics.


I like the pics....very informative


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## Flyboy718 (May 20, 2008)

*This is a good one too...*

Click on the link:

http://www.bowhunter-ed.com/images/animations/deershot.swf


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## BigWhitetail5 (Dec 7, 2008)

hey thanks for advice im getting a couple of my friends into bowhunting now they will kno where to shoot


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## discipleofJC (Sep 16, 2009)

*Thanks*

Great stuff on this thread. Just when you think you have it all squared away, you realize how inept you are!!! 

Praise God for people who know better!!!


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## Combat Hunter (Sep 4, 2009)

Great info in this thread. It's amazing how this thread started many years ago and all the information is still so useful, important, and necessary. Great stuff everyone. Thanks


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## Bigjohn070 (Jul 20, 2007)

Great info

HH
BIG JOHN


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## j1980 (Sep 30, 2009)

I am new to this site and it will not let me view anything unless I post two postings.


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## spflugradt (Sep 7, 2009)

This is great guys I have a 6 yr old that will be hitting the woods for the first time in a few weeks and this will be great for him to look over and help him learn good ethics and shot placement. Way to go board!!

Steve


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## Ratch (Sep 28, 2009)

Great thread, good info. This is my first bow season, but I'd say it's good to know for firearms season, too. 
:thumbs_up


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## kraven (Jan 25, 2006)

cbeicker said:


> So I have a question along the same lines of shot placement: Say you shoot a deer with inadequate shot placement and there is no blood trail. What are the methods that you use to track the deer. I personally like to use a search that involves going back and forth along parallel lines moving slowly away from the place I shot the deer. I learned this technique in search&rescue certification for SCUBA diving. It's not foolproof but I think it works pretty well.
> 
> What are yall's methods of tracking when there is no trail?


Very very good question, and very timely.
The answer will vary with terrain, but most often I make concentric circles away from the last seen location and in the direction it was traveling. I widen the circles looking for broken limbs, hoof prints in the dirt or mud, and smears of blood on brush or trees. 
Very often they will go toward a water source or a bedding area, and in the mountains the seem to invariably go down hill as opposed to making a climb out of an area. 
Using the geography, flora, deer's size, last known direction, etc will help you increase your odds of finding one that isn't leaving a trail. You will have a big advantage if you know all these things. It's the deer's back yard. At least learn the neighborhood a little.
Before you head out:
Find your arrow first. Examining the arrow will give you clues to where on the deer it went through and how much time the deer has to expire (hours, days, minutes?)
Foamy blood can indicate a lung shot. Foul smelling fletching can indicate a gut shot, etc. 

Helpful things: Topo map of the area, good eyes, a long attention span, a real compass (suunto or comparable/better), the ability to use map/compass properly, and a flashlight with new batteries in case you get lost or farther away than you thought you would before dark. 

If it's getting dark on you, don't wander off into the woods like Jeremiah Johnson. Mark the location and direction on your map so you can come back the next day, hopefully with some friends who will help you spot the animal.
*If you use a GPS, that's fine. I'm not your Mama. I prefer maps* 
Never make up your mind that you're tracking a deer that doesn't leave a blood trail. Keep your eyes open and sharp looking for any clue on the ground, brush, or trees. A blood trail can start again at any time. There are no hard and fast rules to tracking. 

As you make concentric circles, you'll see something that tells you a deer passed. They don't evaporate into thin air. Mark that spot on your map or in your GPS. Pretty soon you'll have waypoints of where the deer traveled (and how to get back to your stand). If you've scouted food sources, water sources, bedding areas, and social clearings, you'll be able to take a guess at where the deer is going. Keep looking for evidence of the deer's passing in circles from each waypoint and you'll soon be in sight of it.


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## Gen 27:3 (Oct 23, 2009)

Minnow - I'm new to the forum, but just wanted to say your 10/7 message on shot placement is right on. I was just trying to explain the same concept to my 11 year old the past few months while preparing for the new mentoring program in our shared state.

Good luck this season.


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*this is my first year hunting and*

I am 44! Am I reading this right. I want to shoot right above where the front leg meets the body? This would put the arrow in the middle of the "V" and violate lungs and possibly the aorta?

Chuck


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*is this correct?*

should I be shooting right above where the front leg attaches to the torso? I would have taken a shot behind the leg.


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## kraven (Jan 25, 2006)

For a purely broadside shot, yes. 

Very seldom will you have a deer perpendicular to you. This is why a 3 dimensional knowledge of ungulate anatomy (or whatever animal you're hunting) is necessary. You can mentally see the best spot from nearly any angle.

This is also why it's important to do an informal necropsy when you are field dressing. Double check the entrance, path, and exit of the arrow.


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## Texan Aviator (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm a newbie to bowhunting and this post is very very helpful!


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## ks_wayward_son (Oct 28, 2009)

*Advice?*

Hey fellas...was just wondering what you guys think about post-shot reactions from a hit whitetail. When I shot, I didn't get a complete pass-through as I could still see a good portion of the arrow. I am not completely sure about the shot placement...he was standing broadside from me no more than 15 yards away. When I hit him, he did an about-face 180 and took off like a freakin' rocket. I am not sure how much arrow was protruding...but his tail was down when he was running. I think I hit him high...maybe midway back. Could have been a high lung clip, maybe liver...heaven forbid not a paunch hit. It was getting towards quitting time and had been raining all day...basically sort of your "worst-case scenario" . I decided to let him go for the night just to be sure...think it will cool enough. Judging from all this info, or lack thereof, what do you guys think? Is it a tag and bag, or see ya wouldn't wanna be ya?


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## hortondude (Oct 29, 2009)

first deer i shot at ended up being a 12 point buck and it was a gut shot. can you believe i was in another chat room yesterday and someone told me that the only shot they will take is at the neck.


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## Bear_Element (Nov 3, 2009)

Thanks for the info. Very informative.


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## a1hoyt.ca (Feb 3, 2008)

*a1hoyt.ca*

This is great for all hunters never hurts to refresh our old brains now & then. This is a great thread thanks to all who have posted these illustrations. This is why I come to AT because we can always find something that helps out now & then. I will be showing this thread to my daughter tommorow.


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## storminN (Apr 7, 2007)

Shot my first two deer this last week (go me!) so now I am an expert! (not.)

Both went down fast (<40 yards) in plain sight. Both were pass through shots. One was quartering away from 45 yards, arrow went in lower than I wanted, but right throught the heart, in and out. I was supprised that there was not much of a blood trail. Drops, but no gush. Field dressing, i found the blood inside the chest cavity. I guess it doesn't bleed if the pump is wrecked.

Second deer was 10 yards away and almost under the tree stand. arrow went in high and tight to shoulder, exited out the bottom of the far side ribcage. Blood everywhere, but only managed to hit the leading edge of one lung and an artery comming out of the heart.

Though that it was interesting that the more marginal hit produced the better blood trail, mainly because the blood was blowing out the mouth and nose.


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## mrbackstrap (Oct 24, 2009)

*shot placement?*

Where would you aim if a deer was quartering to you?


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## mshannon (Dec 10, 2008)

*training course*

I think that it should be mandatory for all members to read this sticky and also about tracking deer before they can use this sight. This is great knowledge especially for hunters new to the sport of bowhunting. I learned alot and I have been hunting all my life. I also beleive that it has helped me take a few animals this year in a better humane way. Thanks AT !!


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## AZdesert rat (Sep 5, 2008)

*thanks for the info*

i've ben a rifle hunter for many more years than i have a bowhunter, so this thread realy opend my eyes with a rifle i was always talt to aim for the heart and i just caried it over to archery, so thanks to all that posted diagrams, this new info will hopefuly lead to shorter blood trails and more meat in the freezer


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## wasp611 (Nov 18, 2009)

*vital hits*

I set my bow up to shoot 5 inches low at every yardage. It sucks when i want to shoot a yote a squirrel or turkey ambling by but it puts the deer down. Can't get anyone else to do it. I'm sighted n low and aim at the heart and almost always hit where the pin was.The deer will duck most every time and I count on it. If they don't duck you will miss, but have never missed a deer low in my life. Rather miss low than wound one with a high hit. Sight the bow in dead on, aim behind the shoulder right in the middle of the body and its a high shot and a lost deer every time. Been on a hundred tracking forays and recognize that every time, the dead giveaway is when you ask the person where they hit it and they say "dead center perfect" that deer is lost most every time. Its gotta b lower than u think and farther forward than you think. Aim at the IBO 11 ring, make a perfect shot and the result will be a lost deer 9 out of 10. ASA 12 ring....too far back no lungs there. Low and straight above the leg is the death shot, and don't think 90% of the people out there know that. Majority of shots I see are too high and too far back.Half the deer I see that people kill are way back liver upper back and ham shots.See a lot of good shots high and behind shoulder too where guys just barely catch back of lungs. Rarely ever see a deer with a hole in it right where it should go. We need education.Love that chart that is best one I've seen.


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## TClark (Oct 31, 2008)

*Awesome thread*

Awesome thread for sure. I'm 60 and have been bow hunting since 1974. I was taught to "hit em in the ribs". Well, there's allot a ribs on a deer and after gutting a few I noted where the lungs were and have went for them every time.
Reason being they snort the blood out their nose and leave an easy trail to follow and rarely go past 50 yards.
I'm loving this concept and will look for the crease next time out. Can't wait to try it. Our season ends Dec. 31st so I got lots a time as I haven't filled my tags yet.

Thanks again everyone who contributed...even an old fart like me can learn something, eh?


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## stringtown (Sep 3, 2008)

yeah i hit the biggest deer i would have ever killed high and back saturday afternoon. have it on video which makes me sick to look at now. deer was at 42 yds and it is amazing on slow mo how much he moved before arrow hit him. he was quartering away and when i shot he duck and lurched forward. should have been aiming lower but wasn't. didn't get much penetration which makes me worry i hit his soft tissues around spine. reviewing the video it is hard to tell b/c on one pause it looks low enought to get into artery and maybe intestines but on another it looks a little higher. he ran about 30-40 yds like a scalded dog and then stopped and looked back at arrow for a minute before walking off. found blood that evening and backed out. went back next am and found more blood but not good blood and then the rains came. searched all day doing parallel walks but never found him. he'll probably turn up and i guess upside is i have video to claim him.


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## foxhunterbubba (Dec 2, 2009)

first deer this year droppe when it jumped the string, resulted in a high hit. that was sep 15, saw her yesterday, nice scar but still with us.


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## stringtown (Sep 3, 2008)

yeah i hope i see mine this weekend w/ a mark so i can know where not to aim...or i find his butt dead in the briars.


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## nwahunts (Dec 9, 2009)

good information. Thanks!


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## 4kids3years (Sep 7, 2008)

*Thanks!*

That's nice work Jerry. I've bowhunted since I could draw a bow and butcher all my own kills (and my Dad's, cousin's , uncle's, etc.) so bone structure and shot placement are second nature to me. However, my oldest son is reaching legal hunting age, and while I've always told him where to aim/place his arrows, I've never really discussed why they should hit there, other than that it would give him a double lung shot and produce quick, clean kills. Thanks for the reminder!


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2009)

I shot my first elk with at a steep uphill angle. I hit it right behind the shoulder. After watching the nock disappear right where I wanted it, I was convinced the elk was going to drop in sight. Long story short, I trailed the elk 2.7 miles!!! and eventually got it, the post-mortum uncovered I only got the bottom of one lung. From not on, I will ALWAYS aim directly over the front leg. this year, I shot a whitetail right over the front leg, it went 30 yrds before dropping. I am moving my aiming point and I am going to teach my kids correctly before they get too old. In the attached pic I have highlighted red the exit wound for my elk...btw, not a fun tracking job!
JB


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## okarcheryaddict (Nov 9, 2009)

*thanks a bunch*

this thread is awesome. i am a new bow hunter and i've read this no less than three or four times and i will continue to keep comming back.


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## jnrodgers (Dec 29, 2009)

this image shld help young hunters or ppl that didn't no how an animal


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## -=Virus=- (Jan 1, 2010)

nice post, thank :smile:you


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## safe cracker (Sep 28, 2009)

*dsp&t*

and we do this without thinking.... thanks for the great post...:nod:


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## grizzl (Jan 5, 2007)

*Might have redudant info but my tips to tracking*

1) At impact point. look at color of blood and hair to determine shot placement. 
2) White hair is low hit..green brown liquid in blood is a hit back. Look at the arrow and smell it  you can tell if its stomach or back further
(WAIT +10hrs and get help to track) if you track to where it bedded and bled and blood is still wet. STOP backout and come back in another 10 hrs. Don't PUSH
3) If Blood is red arterial...track and push to keep blood flowing
4) Use toilet paper to mark blood trail. get compass direction
5) Don't walk ON blood trail and mess up leaves..you may have to go back and restart if you loose trail. 
6) Look at shape of blood drops..a tear drop will indicate what direction its moving

IF YOU LOOSE THE TRAIL

7) LOOK for ANTS..Ants go to BLOOD FAST..you see a bunch on a drop
8) Check the compass direction of the trail. Look ahead in that direction for a blowdown or big log. go inspect the top of the log for blood sign. If an animal jumped it the effort would reopen the wound, shake blood off of fir or open a gut shot wound enough to drop blood. again mark on log and get compass bearing (I use a GPS tracking trail function)
9) Get down on hands and knees and crawl. Dried blood will "FLAKE" like paint. pick up the suspected leaf and flick to see if the "FLAKE" lifts from leaf.

10) Check all ravines/creeks/close water/mud/and blowdowns Deer go to water, hide in cover and I've seen them use mud by sliding into it to plug wounds


11. When all else fails and you don't have a dog. Use a GPS tracking function and setup a search grid into sqiuares 50 ft apart.

If you find Blood..go back to 4 and restart.

Those are my biggies. I help lots of hunters track lost game and THIS is as fun as hunting..making sure an animal is not lost.

ALso, when a animal is hit..it tends to go to head to its safe haven...so by tracking..you get a roadmap to a core area (sometimes). Watch where it takes you..might be a honey hole for a setup.

This is my process list of how I track


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## stablebuck (Jun 30, 2009)

mrbackstrap said:


> Where would you aim if a deer was quartering to you?


wait for a better shot!!!


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## nflook765 (Dec 12, 2009)

So I shot a doe. She was quartering away pretty hard and facing left. I hit right behind her shoulder and it came out just to the right of her neck. After skinning her, we noticed that the arrow didn't even pass through her main cavity. My question is, do you think I just got luck and hit a main artery in her neck or was it a good shot?


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## nflook765 (Dec 12, 2009)

nflook765 said:


> So I shot a doe. She was quartering away pretty hard and facing left. I hit right behind her shoulder and it came out just to the right of her neck. After skinning her, we noticed that the arrow didn't even pass through her main cavity. My question is, do you think I just got luck and hit a main artery in her neck or was it a good shot?


By the way, the blood trail was huge and she only went about 75 yards.


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## violentsleeper (Jul 8, 2009)

*Great refresher*

Allways good info before a season.


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## Seanr900 (Aug 22, 2009)

*Ttt*

It's about time everyone sees this again.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Seanr900 said:


> It's about time everyone sees this again.


Bout that time....:thumbs_up


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

stuck... :cheers:


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## cowboy6532 (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks, that was helpful.


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## 22WVBOWHUNTER (Aug 5, 2010)

i accidentally hit a twig on my first deer with a bow last year and hit the pyloric artery and it cam out of its guts and that sucker poured the blood died within site of my treestand


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## WyoHunter (Jul 19, 2003)

Great info!


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## bobbie (Jan 20, 2006)

*ttt*

I really relate to what you are talking about,when i was rifle hunting sure we took a look at were we shot them but it never really registered about were the leg bones acutually are.So the first deer i shoot with the bow was a i real eye opener.I walked up and the arrow went were i was aiming,in the liver close to the guts.Wasnt impressed.It really took a lot of consentration for the first while to hold farther forward,now no problem at all, but it took some work to get out of that habit.And Shooting alot of these 3d targets sure dosent help, as the kills arent always where you would shoot a real game animal.:thumbs_up


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## handl042 (Aug 14, 2010)

Great sticky this is great to help explain shot placement to young or new hunters!


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## J.R.M (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks for keeping this up. I read it every year that I have been a member. Just reinforces what we all should be looking for.


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## Bruggyboy (Aug 19, 2010)

very nice. more info is always a good thing!


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## Bruggyboy (Aug 19, 2010)

very nice. more info is always a good thing!


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## dirty1971 (Aug 19, 2010)

Thank you Jerry,
Shot placement is very important when hunting. It makes the difference between just wounding and having the animal suffer and collecting your prize


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

dirty1971 said:


> Thank you Jerry,
> Shot placement is very important when hunting. It makes the difference between just wounding and having the animal suffer and collecting your prize


Good luck this year and educate others. :thumbs_up


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## Ohio Mossy Oak (Dec 17, 2006)

cbeicker said:


> So I have a question along the same lines of shot placement: Say you shoot a deer with inadequate shot placement and there is no blood trail. What are the methods that you use to track the deer. I personally like to use a search that involves going back and forth along parallel lines moving slowly away from the place I shot the deer. I learned this technique in search&rescue certification for SCUBA diving. It's not foolproof but I think it works pretty well.
> 
> What are yall's methods of tracking when there is no trail?


I call it a "grid search"..I don't know if this is the/a proper term or not..Just passing it along


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## Aggieland (Jun 23, 2007)

Get this to the top.. its hunting season!!


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## spartanwarrior (Aug 21, 2008)

this may be off topic but what should you take into consideration when hunting along a creek/clearing shooting lanes; on the south side of the creek is a crp feild the grass is about 7ft tall right now. to the east (behind me) is a soybean feild, to the west is a thin strip of woods seperating a feild from the soybean feild and to the west down the creek is a lake maybe 220yards or so away maybe less...the creek is maybe 5-6ft deep and is barley ever full


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## PSEfirestormlit (Sep 5, 2010)

Great job Jerry !! Keep up the good work !!


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## talkturkey (Sep 14, 2010)

THANK YOU! Just got the bow bug, so won't be hunting any deer with it this year... But this thread is very much appreciated, and will use the info practicing and hopefully, in the field next year! Thank you again.


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## ltltony (Sep 14, 2010)

BingoFlyer said:


> They may like this game for shot placement, be warned that not all the shots are ethical but must be made before going on and are all makeable.
> http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/FEATURES/ARTICLES/DEER/DEERGEOMETRY/


Very cool little game. I sent it to a friend who's sons just started hunting.


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## dotchess (Aug 1, 2004)

Dangit! I learned something here for sure!!!


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## Firebird67 (Sep 20, 2010)

Good stuff Jerry! I'm hoping this will help eliminate searching the woods all night for wounded deer! Thanks


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## flopduster (Nov 3, 2009)

Clipped this off another thread, think this is a good place for it...


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## tuckerdog (Sep 28, 2010)

best thread I've seen,kinda lets me know grandpa knew his stuff when he taught me,nice to have a refresher now and then.I've caught myself aiming too far back,haven't lost a deer in a long time and this I'm sure will help keep it that way lord willing


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## abianca99 (Nov 26, 2009)

Good info. I can stand to aim a little farther forward at times


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## elkhunter2900 (May 7, 2010)

Excellent post Minnow! Last Sunday I took 2 does with the exact shot you are speaking of. Arteries at the top of the heart both lungs. One never ran just flinched and fell, the other walked over to see what she was kicking about and got the same, ran 15 yards. Both shots exactly as you described.
Thanks for that post.
DDT


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## KMcDowell_14 (Aug 12, 2010)

Great Post. I know a guy that thought you shot deer in the front shoulder with a bow.


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## danrwoods (Sep 4, 2010)

cptleo1 said:


> Years ago Easton Arrows had a veterinarian that went to the shows with them to answer questions about shot placement.
> 
> He had what amounted to a 3-d target on a table sliced in 1/2 (right down the spine).
> 
> ...


Can you show me this *crease *on this deer. I call him "Untouchable". He must know his city ordinances pretty good. My bow is considered a firearm here in town. Oh well, nice to look at the pictures anyway.


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## ccall29 (Dec 22, 2009)

I just harvested my first doe and buck within a week. Both shots were "in the crease" and I thought were a tad high. Doe was shot at 12 yds and ran/stumbled 22 yds and piled up. Saw her the whole way. Buck dropped on the spot, though I did have to put a second into his right lung and heart from the stand to finish him. With the doe, I noticed that the arterial branches were destroyed. The buck, I didn't do a thorough post-mortem as I was too excited. just wanted to get em back home and get some pics!! But I did recover the broadhead and it was covered in a thick reddish purple gooey stuff. For the lack of a better term. I dont think that it contacted spine in any way.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Jerry/NJ said:


> I have been working (fun work :wink: ) with some teenage boys just getting into bowhunting and 1 thing that kept surfacing as we were doing "what if" scenerios was, they all thought the front leg bone goes straight up into the deer to the spine and as we know it does not. As we talked shot scenerios, most of the shots they would take would be back in the liver area and possibly end up in gut shots. Now they know better.
> 
> So I thought this would be important enough to post here for those who lurk or are just getting into the sport. Here is a picture to illustrate, it is not the best picture but will do.


Here is a small deer I shot the other day and wanted to illustrate the "spot" I referred to in my initial post. I am not very good with picture editing programs so I only drew a yellow line to depict where the shoulder and leg bones are. The hole made was from a Slick Trck Magnum. It came out the other side in the same spot as I shot from the ground. It took the top of the heart out and all the arteries to/from it. I hope this helps show the sweet spot that will put them down.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Here is the same deer with it's clothes on, lol. The 1st hole you see is the entrance wound and the 2nd picture is the exit wound. The lack of blood on the exit wound is due to that is the side the deer died on so most of the blood was on the ground.


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## lukenic (Oct 10, 2010)

i shot a nice buck today from 18' up and about 15 yds away, broadside. hit the deer above the arm pit a little less than 2/3 of the way up it's body. no pass through, about 1/3 of the arrow in as he ran off. found, followed, lost, found, followed, blood again and again. no deer. found two pools of blood, 400-500 yrds from my stand. i can't imagine i hit the shoulder? 

any idea's what went wrong?


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## roosclan (Oct 1, 2010)

lukenic said:


> i shot a nice buck today from 18' up and about 15 yds away, broadside. hit the deer above the arm pit a little less than 2/3 of the way up it's body. no pass through, about 1/3 of the arrow in as he ran off. found, followed, lost, found, followed, blood again and again. no deer. found two pools of blood, 400-500 yrds from my stand. i can't imagine i hit the shoulder?
> 
> any idea's what went wrong?


 The two pools of blood indicate to me that he bedded down twice. How long did you wait after you shot him before you started tracking?


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## OverMyHead (Dec 8, 2005)

*sounds like a one-lunger....*

I'd keep looking now he's had time to expire.

With no pass through I'd guess you hit shoulder bone but I should ask what broadhead you were using.

He's probably less than 100 yards from last bed...it seems if they are one-lunged and they get awhile to bed and then you jump them, they die closeby. Maybe throw a clot or something. good luck.


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## lukenic (Oct 10, 2010)

i was shooting a rage three blade. the two beds were about 100 yds apart. waited about 30-40 minutes after the shot before getting out of my stand. other hunters in woods may have pushed him? searched for about 2 hrs today. covered around a 150-200 yard radius, from the last blood, of some thick cover, open woods with a creek running through and found nothing.


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## SPIKER_67 (Nov 7, 2007)

Jerry/NJ said:


> Wait for the best spot such as a deer might be 1/4ering toward you a tad and you think I can make that shot, so you shoot. Now this is a deadly shot but not a good shot for us as far as tracking. You will most likely hit one lung going in, catch the liver and out thru the gut. This deer WILL die! But it can run far and leave no bloodtrail. I've done it and will never do it again! Just not worth it!


Jerry, I see this is an old thread, but you are right on the money. This exact shot has happened to me twice.

Once, the deer made it 30 yds, the second time it went 200 yds with zero blood on the ground. It was all inside him.

Live, and learn.


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## schwanzman89 (May 1, 2009)

Jerry/NJ said:


> Here is the same deer with it's clothes on, lol. The 1st hole you see is the entrance wound and the 2nd picture is the exit wound. The lack of blood on the exit wound is due to that is the side the deer died on so most of the blood was on the ground.


Holy ***** did you hit the heart on that one?!


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## liveatfulldraw (Aug 23, 2010)

Nice. Thanks for sharing.


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## cjhunts (Jul 30, 2005)

This is great. It could really clear up lots of confusion about proper shot placement. Here in NY bowhunter ed is mandatory. This photo, or one very similar should be included in the NYS handbook.


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## mickey246 (Sep 17, 2010)

Deer and Deerhunting as come out with a cool new shot simulator for your computer. Its a software that simulates shot placement. While you are waiting to let your deer expire you can check the simulator to see if you made a killing shot or not. Its pretty cool. check it out on their website. http://blog.deeranddeerhunting.com/rubline/2010/12/01/Dec1Only20OffShotSimulatorDeluxeEdition.aspx


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## Jake L (Aug 20, 2010)

Subscribing for future reference


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## fergy (Jun 1, 2010)

Jerry, very good thread and valuable information, both in learning the anatomy and kill zone of the deer and good info on tracking! There are obviously so many more variables that go in to making a "perfect" shot as someone mentioned earlier, where deer can move enough between the time you release your arrow and it arrives at the deer to make a good shot turn bad. A poorly tuned bow, or bow and arrow combination that doesn't match can send an arrow flailing through the air that even when it impacts the exact spot you are aiming, can have poor penetration because of poor flight. I know this from first hand experience, early in my bow hunting days, shooting a bow that was awful fast, a light arrow flying poorly, and hit a doe right where I was aiming and had the carbon arrow break in half at impact! You don't see that very often, and I lost the doe unfortunately, but it took that experience to set me on a path of recovery. At the time, it was a cheap, very fast bow, that was awful noisy. I struggled the entire time I had that bow, trying to quiet it down with kitty whiskers, stabilizers, limb savers, and I failed to try the one thing that might have helped the most, a heavy arrow! I now shoot a good quality bow that is relatively slow by today's standards, and a 500+ grain arrow which is heavy by today's standards, but it has plenty of KE and the arrow absorbs almost all of the bow's energy so there is little left over to cause noise. I can also shoot it pretty darned accurate, and although I've never video taped any hunts to verify this, I don't believe I've ever had a deer jump my string. I don't say all this to brag, but to emphasize the importance of quiet, accurate and well tuned arrow flight. To me, this is every bit as important as knowing the anatomy of a deer and where to aim under all these different circumstances i.e. from level ground to uphill or from a tree stand. 

I read too many stories on this and other forums where the hunter is even mentioning the deer jumped my string, or the deer moved and my perfect shot went bad. Knowing what shots to avoid like a quartering to you shot, or quartering too away, and knowing exactly where the vital organs are and how to place your shot to take maximum advantage of that is extremely important, but I feel like too many bow hunters go into the woods with poorly tuned or matched equipment and end up wounding a terrible lot of deer and never finding them and wondering what happened. 

One other point about tracking: Years ago I read an article in one of the bow hunting mags where the author was talking about tracking and I remember he said that a deer will *"usually"* run a certain pattern depending on how the arrow passed through, or if the arrow was still in the animal. He said that, after the initial burst that usually happens when a deer will bust out of the area when shot, and not in any typical direction but usually into some kind of cover that is closest, that the deer will eventually begin to run or curl away from the exit hole on a pass through shot. Or, if the arrow is still in the deer, it will run away from the arrow, eventually. When reading this, I thought back on the 8 or 9 deer I had killed by that time, and in every single case, he was spot on. The very first deer I shot with a bow was facing my right, and the arrow looked to me like it only penetrated 6-8 inches and she ran straight to my right with the arrow flopping from her right side, but as I watched her run, she started to curl to her left, away from the arrow and she went out of sight. Her blood trail continued on this slight turn to her left all the way to where she lay dead when I tracked her. Another doe that I shot, nearly identical, facing my right, this time the arrow passed straight through. She exploded back to her left and plunged through the nearest cover and was gone. I heard her run off through the brush and then there was no more sound. I retrieved my arrow which was covered in bright red blood and tracked her blood trail for about 50 yards in the direction she had run from the original location of the shot, then I lost her blood trail. She was heading down hill, so I did the zigzag back and forth always widening my search, kept this up for at least 2 hours and found no more sign of her. I went and got help and I showed them the blood trail and we worked until late that night and never found another sign of her. All along, we assumed she had continued downhill in the general direction she had been going--our mistake! The next morning after we hunted, we came back to the area and started looking again. We found her about 25 yards from where I had shot her, yet the blood trail when it ran out was a good 50 yards in the other direction. She had turned hard at that point, had not dropped any blood for several yards and then curled back toward her right, away from the exit hole and had walked and stumbled (by looking at the newly found blood trail) back almost to my tree stand before she fell over dead.
This obviously isn't an exact science, and every deer will not "follow the rules" as we all know, but in my experience it definitely has merit. Many of the deer I've shot only went 25-45 yards, pretty much in a straight line, spewing blood like crazy before crashing, so this didn't apply. But any of my extended tracking jobs on deer that went a while before going down, this seems to be dead on, so think of it like one more piece of knowledge that may help you recover a deer that doesn't just go down like we all pray they will!


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## fergy (Jun 1, 2010)

Another more recent hunt I was sitting in a ladder stand facing the West. I arrowed a doe that was South of me, facing the East. I placed the arrow right where I was aiming, just above the elbow, about a third up the body, and it slipped through her and stuck in the ground opposite of her. The shot was right through the top of the heart. She jumped to her right and busted out of the area heading SE and the sound of deer running in every direction made it difficult to hear her departure, but I knew the direction she had gone. It was quiet for nearly 20 minutes when a pack of hogs came on the scene, and one of them went up to the arrow and was sniffing it. I decided to climb down and scare the hogs away, go retrieve my arrow and check for blood. The arrow was well coated and there were splatters of blood visible in the direction she had fled. I waited a few more minutes and started trailing her. Amazingly, she ran an estimated 250 yards before diving into the edge of a creek on her last effort. The blood trail was the biggest I've ever seen, and I wondered several times while following it how a deer could have that much blood leave the body and keep going, as a blind person could have followed it by smell of blood alone. She had left the shot area and then made a continuous curl to her left, away from the exit hole until the blood trail stopped. The blood was splattered forward at every jump, telling me she had run the entire way, never slowing down. I was within 25 yards of the creek when the blood ran out, so I marked the last drops of blood and started fanning out and eventually found her in the creek's edge, hidden by high weeds. She had continued the same curve right to where she died. I panicked a little when the blood trail stopped, but I knew she had to be dead with the amount of blood she left behind. If I had just walked in the direction she had been going I'd have found her a minute later, but because I zigzagged back and forth, scouring the ground for sign, it took me a while. 
When I pulled her out of the creek and field dressed her, there was a perfect triangle hole sliced through the heart. Sometimes you make what you think is an excellent shot, and a deer can go nearly forever it seems. And it's funny how quickly doubt creeps in when the blood trail runs out. But all you can do is make a great shot, the best you can, and avoid bad or marginal shots. What happens after the shot is not in your control and sometimes deer will do amazing things, very unpredictable. Tracking skills are a must.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Bout that time of year to sticky this again. Good luck all!


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## Terry A (Jan 11, 2007)

Good info for ALL to study, I looked for this thread, I thought they had it as a sticky the last few years


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## lotalota (Apr 28, 2007)

Do you fellows think the placement of the vitals is accurate on the Rinehart Broadhead Buck? I've been shooting this guy for a while, and have kind of trained myself to shoot for the heart. But I wonder if it isn't too low and a bit too much forward.

Here's evidence from earlier today:


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Jerry/NJ said:


> Bout that time of year to sticky this again. Good luck all!


Bout that time again :thumbs_up


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## 12pt (Dec 1, 2009)

Deer Shot Placement and Anatomy - Where to Shoot a Deer .....http://www.rubsnscrapes.com/Articles/deer_shot_placement_anatomy.php


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## Marshall Law (Aug 9, 2012)

The top picture represents the lung location in my mind. I did a cut away on a real deer for my Son years ago and the lungs were not as far forward in the chest as they are shown in the bottom picture. Also, the lungs didnt go back as far as they do in the bottom picture. I would say that the top picture is perfect to what I have seen


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## Marshall Law (Aug 9, 2012)

lotalota said:


> Do you fellows think the placement of the vitals is accurate on the Rinehart Broadhead Buck? I've been shooting this guy for a while, and have kind of trained myself to shoot for the heart. But I wonder if it isn't too low and a bit too much forward.
> 
> Here's evidence from earlier today:
> View attachment 1419240


I have that target and IMO it is very close to perfect except that the lungs are to far back on the bottom of the target. JMO


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Up for that time of year


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Jerry/NJ said:


> Up for that time of year


Good luck to all this season


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Tis that time of year...shot placement is where it's at!


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## OK Cowboy (Jul 16, 2015)

A lot of those pictures are slightly incorrect. When the lungs are full, they extend all the way to the back ribs, and up close to the backbone which gives us a little more margin of error. It is also easy to take out legs on a heart shot when a deer jumps the string a bit, so with a good broadhead and power you can still takeout the heart. Shotplacement will be more critical with my kids with 25/26" DL, and 35# DW shooting 28" 500spine Blackout X3 arrows at 358 grains with broadhead. That comes out to 180 fps for the 25" draw, and 190 fps for the 26" draw estimated.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Here is one of the best https://youtu.be/eQ5fkdN0tuI


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

https://youtu.be/80kM5sZF3kM


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