# Prediction on new bows for Hoyt 2019



## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Just wondering what will they come out with next as far as recurve. I see a trend of us going heavier on the riser and I like that fact that they have adopted the bamboo laminate on their limbs.

I would like to see 23in risers that are lighter because in my opinion. archers can always make it heavier. Ex. Prodigy RX in 23in. also excellent platform for joads.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

In the last Easton podcast George and Steve eluded to a new recurve coming. The x-tour bamboo limbs are awesome.


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## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

You can always tell if something really new is coming because the European distributors reduce prices....Alt Services is running several Hoyt clearance sales.


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## ceratops (May 17, 2017)

st8arrow said:


> You can always tell if something really new is coming because the European distributors reduce prices....Alt Services is running several *Hoyt clearance sales*.


As a dedicated purchaser of (good) old equipment, I see this as the main benefit of the fancy new models that come out each year. :wink:


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

If something new comes out every year just because it's a new year, nothing is new.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

st8arrow said:


> You can always tell if something really new is coming because the European distributors reduce prices....Alt Services is running several Hoyt clearance sales.


Yeah that is a good indication. I haven’t really noticed any fire sales here and I think the last risers are only two years old so we’ll see. I haven’t seen a date but usually it is near the end of October so should be soon.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

What ever comes out it will be all marketing hype with zero physics to support any claim as to why it is better than previous models. And it will probably break the $1000 barrier at Lancaster.


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## rookcaca (Oct 10, 2002)

I hope they introduce a carbon riser.


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## mseganti (Sep 15, 2017)

I really hope they make more ILF risers with a tec bar. Thats my hope for this year. I can see them coming out with carbon risers as well though. Hopefully its something cool!


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

mseganti said:


> I really hope they make more ILF risers with a tec bar. Thats my hope for this year. I can see them coming out with carbon risers as well though. Hopefully its something cool!


I just read that and thought... a carbon fiber tec riser. :mg:


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

good luck. Hoyt are extraordinarily resistant to making carbon risers, because they can't do so in-house and need to subcontract them out to Prince (the French tennis raquet manufacturer).

while they have multiple millions invested in CNC machinery and tooling, they're going to keep using it. they'll start doing carbon in earnest about three years after everyone else has moved to it as a standard, and then introduce a product at a premium price over everyone else and market it as an "innovation".


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## kthelen (Aug 16, 2017)

Sad but true...


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

huh? i've never heard of that. got a sauce on the hoyt-prince thing?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

As I understand, Hoyt bows are really “assembled” in the US, but most of the work is done in China. Even the anodizing is done by a third party (Prime).

That’s what I have heard.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

I can't say anything will be "new" but who knows. At this point, most bow manufacturers are just reinventing the wheel every year IMO. It will likely just be a similar bow to the previous generation, just with some geometry tweaks. Hoyt has already modified their tiller bolts, clicker plates, shelf, and alignment dowels, so I can't imagine what they possibly could change this time around. 

Unless Hoyt bites their lip and starts making carbon recurves, I dont foresee anything ground breaking being made.

But it doesn't matter. Hoyt's fan base is large and treats new bows like they're made of unicorn ivory, so anything they release will sell. Hoyt could sell a cucumber for $1,000 and people would still buy it.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Interesting comments on Hoyt and pricing. 

I am far from a Hoyt fanboy, or even fan other than the 27" GMX which is made out of actual unicorn ivory. 

A quick look at the ILF risers on Lancaster and Hoyt is 13th in terms of price. Formula they are actually 2nd. Combined they are 7th. So... interesting.

$1k mark has already been broken by uukha and MK will be there next year for sure, only $50 off currently.

Now they do have the 3rd most expensive limb, $200 behind two uukha offerings.

If the market didn't support it, prices would be slower to climb I imagine.

Still great gear, and great prices on couple year old slightly used gear when the early adopters buy the latest and greatest.

Cheers


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

*Barebow risers...*


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

bobnikon said:


> Interesting comments on Hoyt and pricing.
> 
> I am far from a Hoyt fanboy, or even fan other than the 27" GMX which is made out of actual unicorn ivory.
> 
> ...


Agree there is a lot of Hoyt hate on this website. I need to find and post an old catalog I have with dealer pricing from the mid 90's showing how little bows have actually increased compared to income and other items like cars.


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## Lumis17 (Jun 9, 2003)

Seems the opposite for me. Hoyt has had carbon risers as part of their flagship compound bows for years. Only PSE has followed suit since. If there’s “reluctance” I’m sure it’s for a reason, manufacturing or functional or whatever.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

huckduck said:


> huh? i've never heard of that. got a sauce on the hoyt-prince thing?


the later models of the Carbon Matrix had a Prince decal on them

also check the holder of the patent for the riser construction. https://patents.google.com/patent/US8079353

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2220519


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

SBills said:


> Agree there is a lot of Hoyt hate on this website.


I don't hate Hoyt. they make an excellent product, although it is well overpriced compared to their competitors.

I do strongly dislike their corporate arrogance, and that of one of their staff who turns up here occasionally and then stalks off when people don't show the appropriate degree of reverence, or disagree with his one eyed outlook.


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

I bet 1k risers are not selling much at lancaster the $200 - $600 are more of fast movers I bet.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

Not everything that works for compound works for recurve and vice versa. 

Most top end recurve risers be they MK, W&W or Hoyt are around 800-900. Most of Hoyts top end aluminum compound hunting bows are around a grand as are nearly every other manufacturer for their top stuff (PSE, Prime Mathews etc). 1k is pretty standard. Back around 97 I paid $700 for a Hoyt Defiant. It’s equivalent some 21 years later is $300 more. So yeah they are really raking us these days…


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

airwolfipsc said:


> I bet 1k risers are not selling much at lancaster the $200 - $600 are more of fast movers I bet.


That could be said same as cars bikes etc nothing new there


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

I heard the next riser coming from Hoyt will be called the Hoyt Serious.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

fango0000 said:


> I heard the next riser coming from Hoyt will be called the Hoyt Serious.


I'm thinking Hoyt Real.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Seattlepop said:


> I'm thinking Hoyt Real.


How about the Hoyt Really Serious? :darkbeer:


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

I don’t think there will be anything really new coming out 2019, for any of the major brands. Maybe an update, but that’s it.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

SBills said:


> Agree there is a lot of Hoyt hate on this website


I wouldn't call it hate. I don't at least. I shot a Hoyt for years and it was a great bow. I think many of us on here, myself included dont appreciate Hoyt's elitist marketing. Many of their ads basically try to convince you that the only way to shoot at the top level is with their product. Granted, they are a business and they have to sell product too, but that puts the wrong idea that equipment is more important in people's heads, especially the kids. I also am deterred by some of the cult-ish people that follow them. A staff shooter of Hoyt's told me at outdoor nationals one year that the reason I lost in the eliminations was because I didn't shoot their bow. That's just arrogant and unprofessional.


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

I like Hoyt but then I find the marketing no better or worst that say Mathews & same with fan boys.
I must admit I should sue Hoyt as I have owned both the Alpha Elite ( podium Hog) & Podium X & neither got me to the podium so I say false advertising 
I have only owned 1 PSE a PSE Xpression 3D & never again . At least Hoyt dont make the limb bolt slugs out of aluminum & blue loctite the hell out of the limb screws . I had these stripp out & then had to replace the limbs cracked all in the space of 1 month bought 2nd hand.
Never had a problem with any Hoyts & to be honest the main person that sells PSE here in Australia I cant say I am too fond of him & his shop


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

rjbishop said:


> A staff shooter of Hoyt's told me at outdoor nationals one year that the reason I lost in the eliminations was because I didn't shoot their bow. That's just arrogant and unprofessional.


along with demonstrably delusional.

what manufacturer won the last Olympic gold? http://rio2016.arcz.fr/


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## DarkMuppet (Oct 23, 2013)

caspian said:


> rjbishop said:
> 
> 
> > A staff shooter of Hoyt's told me at outdoor nationals one year that the reason I lost in the eliminations was because I didn't shoot their bow. That's just arrogant and unprofessional.
> ...


Also every outdoor male /female recurve world record, (apart from OH Jin-hyek's 70m 36 arrow distance) is held by either MK, W&W or Samick limbs.
Only Kim Woojin's GMX riser gets Hoyt another look in.

Brady was using an ILF Epik at the World Cup final, does he not like Formula anymore? 

https://youtu.be/WqNQAwxF6zo


😉


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

I tend to bash Hoyt because they have the worst customer service. 

Any time i had to deal with them, nothing but frustration. 

Chris


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## pynnoj (Jan 23, 2012)

theminoritydude said:


> As I understand, Hoyt bows are really “assembled” in the US, but most of the work is done in China. Even the anodizing is done by a third party (Prime).
> 
> That’s what I have heard.



Wrong! 
All Hoyt risers are CNC machined, coated, and prepped in Salt Lake City, USA.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Like I said, that’s what I’ve heard.


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

theminoritydude said:


> Like I said, that’s what I’ve heard.


It is all machined and assembled in Salt Lake.

They do most of the coating in house, only the anodized Red, Blue and Jet Black are sent out to a third party hence why orders for those colours take a couple extra weeks.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Isn’t that amazing? That they could produce their equipment at the kind of prices that matches the other manufacturers?


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

Just gonna leave this right here...


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## mseganti (Sep 15, 2017)

SBills said:


> Just gonna leave this right here...


I hope they come out with some risers


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

The next Hoyt riser is going to be a Hoyt Podium Extreme Pinnacle Ultra Pro Z-tour Special Edition which will parallel the sale of a Hoyt Onsie plastered with Hoyt everywhere so people will not mistake that you shoot and love Hoyt.


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## mseganti (Sep 15, 2017)

tunedlow said:


> The next Hoyt riser is going to be a Hoyt Podium Extreme Pinnacle Ultra Pro Z-tour Special Edition which will parallel the sale of a Hoyt Onsie plastered with Hoyt everywhere so people will not mistake that you shoot and love Hoyt.


It’s better than the win and win wxtzpdtrf, Hoyt has infectious marketing, especially on the compound side, however their stuff is pretty sweet, I haven’t had anything bad from Hoyt yet. I’m not fanboying because I’ve had good products from many different companies, but Hoyt has always been great for me. They might be expensive but they do make some awesome products.


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## rookcaca (Oct 10, 2002)

*Hoyt*

Hoyt 2019


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

Hiding a tec bar? At a glance it seems to be a formula riser though, so that's my interest lost! I would love to see them try a carbon riser, though I think that has been said again and again for a long time now.


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## Ds22030 (Jan 18, 2018)

Maybe it can take ILF and Formula? Like MK Archery Alpha and Beta?


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## martinfuchs (Jan 18, 2017)

anmactire said:


> Hiding a tec bar? At a glance it seems to be a formula riser though, so that's my interest lost! I would love to see them try a carbon riser, though I think that has been said again and again for a long time now.


I am curious about the Tec Bar which a lot of people seem to like... What is the supposed advantage of that? Or is it just visual? I personally always thought those bars looked weird. 



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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

martinfuchs said:


> I am curious about the Tec Bar which a lot of people seem to like... What is the supposed advantage of that? Or is it just visual? I personally always thought those bars looked weird.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same reason they have remained on the compounds, stiffness. That being said it's more of a personal feel, not necessarily a improvement in overall performance.


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## mseganti (Sep 15, 2017)

martinfuchs said:


> I am curious about the Tec Bar which a lot of people seem to like... What is the supposed advantage of that? Or is it just visual? I personally always thought those bars looked weird.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m not the best to explain it, but it adds rigidity and decreases flex. By having that bar it efficiently takes a lot of load off the main section of the riser. The tec risers are the stiffest “deadest” risers I’ve ever shot, I’d really like to see them add one.


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## klock379 (Jun 5, 2018)

Little help here. What's a tec bar?


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

They doubled the length of the notch to dovetail and made the Formula Xtra. Xtra stable, Xtra fast, Xtra proprietary.


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## Montalaar (Jan 26, 2008)

klock379 said:


> Little help here. What's a tec bar?


It is the bar that connects the top of the riser and the bottom of the riser, looking like a handle (would that make it a handle of the handle?). Do a search for "HOYT GPX", it is one of their last riser with a very pronounced tec bar.


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

Teaser from Hoyt, new faster limbs


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## Farfletched (Mar 6, 2018)

From the teaser pics, riser appears to be carbon. And the limbs have more recurve. Both would be substantial departures from Hoyts normal offering.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Huh? Carbon?


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## Farfletched (Mar 6, 2018)

theminoritydude said:


> Huh? Carbon?


Zoom in on the picture in the teaser. Texture looks like carbon fibre. Also the way the stab bushing is set. Guess we will know soon.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

I zoomed in on the limb pocket and it’s the same thin struts.


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## Farfletched (Mar 6, 2018)

Composite🤭


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

i think the image is just what you think it is...made to make you speculate...I am highly doubting carbon as they have proved with good marketing they can be at the top of the market with aluminum...and why deviate from what Hoyt sees is already working


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## BrandonMReeves (Dec 27, 2016)

Interesting to note that both Hoyt GP and Formula versions of the Carbon/Foam X-Tour limbs went on sale on Lancaster today, dropping nearly $150. The same price decrease did not hit the Bamboo limbs though. We'll keep watching and waiting.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

new compounds have been released...but i haven't seen recurve stuff yet


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## stevebster (Feb 5, 2018)

That's what I was going to say. sure it wasn't a Halloween prank??


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)




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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)




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## DarkMuppet (Oct 23, 2013)

Saw it on their Facebook feed. 
All I can say is what an ugly riser! Looks like the love child of a mechano set and a box cutter. 😄


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## martinfuchs (Jan 18, 2017)

theminoritydude said:


> View attachment 6640785


Looks like Formula only, at least for now. I am shooting a Formula bow but would like to switch to ILF. Curious to see more information. 



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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

That limb looks like a super recurve to me. Coming from the world of x-curve Uukha limbs, curious to see how it will compare to Uukhas 2019 line.

Might just be me but the riser resembles the MK Beta way too much I think.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Game changer is a strong statement...


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## curisu (Nov 30, 2015)

Speculating, but it looks like Hoyt did away with the washer-dowel system for bow planing! I won't miss it.

The limbs look slightly slimmer as well - hat tip to Uukha and Border? Curvature looks like a nod to those limb designs as well.

I am curious to feel the difference between carbon-fiber only and carbon/bamboo with that curve profile.


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

It looks like they've been beefing up the formula limb pockets for every new iteration since the first.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

I see updating is in progress......


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

They fixed the 404s. Don't know why they take 10 minutes out of mid day to swap.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Great......now they're just trolling.


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## martinfuchs (Jan 18, 2017)

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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

curisu said:


> Speculating, but it looks like Hoyt did away with the washer-dowel system for bow planing! I won't miss it.
> 
> The limbs look slightly slimmer as well - hat tip to Uukha and Border? Curvature looks like a nod to those limb designs as well.
> 
> I am curious to feel the difference between carbon-fiber only and carbon/bamboo with that curve profile.


No doubt thats where they got the idea. I'm curious to see how they shoot because the rule of thumb with super recurves is the more curve you put into the limb, the less stable it is. It either goes really well or really bad. Border had stability problems in their early days if I remember right, and Uukha had to develop their own unique manufacturing process to get around the issue. Only time will tell.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

What a letdown...


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## moomooholycow (Sep 15, 2016)

Interesting.. X-Tour limbs have been delisted..


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

The price of my Faktor has just gone up.


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## 10X Archer (Mar 7, 2016)

Does anyone know anything about pricing yet?


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## EvilGarfield (May 30, 2018)

theminoritydude said:


> View attachment 6640785


Is it me or the angle on the limb pockets is very steep? Looks very deflex on that picture. Could this be to optimize the new super recurve limbs?
(I'm new to archery, excuse me if it's a dumb comment) 

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## moomooholycow (Sep 15, 2016)

EvilGarfield said:


> Is it me or the angle on the limb pockets is very steep? Looks very deflex on that picture. Could this be to optimize the new super recurve limbs?
> (I'm new to archery, excuse me if it's a dumb comment)
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


I don't know the answer, but I know this certainly isn't a dumb comment/question..


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

I dunno about "super recurve" being appropriate to describe them.

Here it is versus the old and now obsolete border hex 5









and versus the hex 6









Angles aren't ideal on the images but you get the idea.

I'm sure you could do the same for a uukha limb. It might be more curvy, but I think the bigger important factor is the mass reduction they have gone for, especially at the limb tips.


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## moomooholycow (Sep 15, 2016)

Alternative SS put both X-Tour sets on special..


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## phencer (Jun 22, 2017)

https://www.facebook.com/247381324253/posts/10156731761824254/

Doug Denton talking about the Formula X and Velos limbs.

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## phencer (Jun 22, 2017)

Both the limbs and riser are $799.99 from LAS.

Limbs are bamboo. No foam version. They will come in Formula and ILF also.

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## mseganti (Sep 15, 2017)

phencer said:


> Both the limbs and riser are $799.99 from LAS.
> 
> Limbs are bamboo. No foam version. They will come in Formula and ILF also.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have we heard anything about a new ilf riser? 


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

it said on hoyt site that new limbs were foam or bamboo


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

I remember someone arguing with Sid from border about how how torsional stability was over rated and going on and on about how crossweave carbons and increased recurve wasn’t the way to go. Looks like that didn’t turn out to be the case at all. 

It would be nice if manufacturers would show us a force draw curve as well as speed. 
This limb “feels” smooth etc is not a number. Smoothness isn’t subjective; it’s easily measured in the FD and all of the manufactures have these numbers anyway. Well we can wish. Instead we can wait and see. 
Criticisms over. Gear looks sweet. Hope they have an ILF Grand Prix riser too.


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## chase128 (May 29, 2015)

Looks like the new limbs are coming out ILF as well:


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

bobnikon said:


> They doubled the length of the notch to dovetail and made the Formula Xtra. Xtra stable, Xtra fast, Xtra proprietary.


Infectious marketing: Ultra serious, like, no, way more serious than 2017 or 2018s bows. Podium Extreme Ultra XXXL Lightspeed Fusion Molecularly Fusion Proprietary techmologies


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## teebat (Oct 28, 2013)

rjbishop said:


> No doubt thats where they got the idea. I'm curious to see how they shoot because the rule of thumb with super recurves is the more curve you put into the limb, the less stable it is. It either goes really well or really bad. Border had stability problems in their early days if I remember right, and Uukha had to develop their own unique manufacturing process to get around the issue. Only time will tell.


I wonder if it will work with the regular formula limbs, not just the super curvy ones.

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## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

I think that's more an illusion (in a sense) from the way the riser is built. Note that the side walls of the limb pocket extend far beyond the limb bolt. It makes the bow look way more deflex than it actually is. If you look at pictures of the bow assembled, you'll see that the limb seems to site very deep in the limb pocket, so the angle is actually not that far off. It is marketed to use the classic Hoyt geometry, after all, so it can deviate too much.


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## Charles A Smith (Dec 9, 2014)

rjbishop said:


> No doubt thats where they got the idea. I'm curious to see how they shoot because the rule of thumb with super recurves is the more curve you put into the limb, the less stable it is. It either goes really well or really bad. Border had stability problems in their early days if I remember right, and Uukha had to develop their own unique manufacturing process to get around the issue. Only time will tell.


Is it fair for me to ask for clarification on this? I do own a formula riser, but I can't imagine I'd ever pay for a new Velos limb. But when you say that they could have stability problems, is that in manufacturing and initial use by the end user (me), or the way they shoot? They do look great don't they?


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Charles A Smith said:


> Is it fair for me to ask for clarification on this? I do own a formula riser, but I can't imagine I'd ever pay for a new Velos limb. But when you say that they could have stability problems, is that in manufacturing and initial use by the end user (me), or the way they shoot? They do look great don't they?


Its the geometry of the limb. Generally, the more curvature you add, the more susceptible the limb tips are to twisting. Its harder to make a really curvy limb rigid and resist torsion than it is a flatter limb.


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## curisu (Nov 30, 2015)

rjbishop said:


> Its the geometry of the limb. Generally, the more curvature you add, the more susceptible the limb tips are to twisting. Its harder to make a really curvy limb rigid and resist torsion than it is a flatter limb.


i can vouch for that with my experience with several sets of Uukha's VX1000 vs their current VX+/XX limbs. I had the slightest twist in the limb tips - i spent hours re-planing my bow using Beiter blocks and winding sticks. I could either have good string plane or untwisted limbs (with aluminum shims).

I ended up settling on good string plane.

The newer VX+ (and XX for that matter) were perfectly plane and untwisted on the same riser.

If LCA had the poundage i need in stock, I would've ordered the Grand Prix to compare against my current XX & Xtours limbs.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Anybody see a vague resemblance? I saw the big beefy limb pocket areas and automatically thought of the Golden Eagle.


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## Lentz (Mar 14, 2010)

So it looks like Hoyt is using the same adjustment features as the Alero on the Formula X? In this video Doug states the Alero has a quality aluminum frame but low end adjustment features. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGiN5IBobGs
With that being said, i guess the new Formula X has low end adjustment features as well. If this adjustment feature is the wave of the future, why spend the money on the Epik , when you can purchase the Alero at almost half the cost? I have a Hoyt and like Hoyt Bows but this Formula X seems like a marketing scam to me....ill stick my Faktor.


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## Ds22030 (Jan 18, 2018)

Alero's mounting block does not have the shim pads to allow adjustment of limb tips.


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## RMBX10 (Jun 20, 2002)

midwayarcherywi said:


> Anybody see a vague resemblance? I saw the big beefy limb pocket areas and automatically thought of the Golden Eagle.
> 
> View attachment 6641569


Yes! And I also thought of the Martin Aurora riser circa 2002-03. None of those won beauty awards and this new Hoyt riser is just as ugly in my opinion. At this point in my life my competitive days are long gone so if I'm going to drop $800 on a riser it better be something that I think looks good.


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm appreciative of Hoyt's commitment to putting a shim adjustment in their latest models. Although most people will probably never make good use of it, it's still nice to know there's a easy way to do shimming now. Another user once mentioned he shimmed a set of limbs using a bit of aluminum can glued onto the limb contact area. At least now there's a nicer way to do that.


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## teebat (Oct 28, 2013)

I hope they make the riser in 27 in. The 25 formulas for some reason don't have a big enough sight window for me.

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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

Lentz said:


> So it looks like Hoyt is using the same adjustment features as the Alero on the Formula X? In this video Doug states the Alero has a quality aluminum frame but low end adjustment features. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGiN5IBobGs
> With that being said, i guess the new Formula X has low end adjustment features as well. If this adjustment feature is the wave of the future, why spend the money on the Epik , when you can purchase the Alero at almost half the cost? I have a Hoyt and like Hoyt Bows but this Formula X seems like a marketing scam to me....ill stick my Faktor.


Actually those alignment systems are not very similar at all. The new system is more similar to what W&W used on the Inno Max risers, (t is a great system IMO) with the addition of the limb rockers. Seems like a nice progression of the design.


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## Ds22030 (Jan 18, 2018)

Anyone know if they will come out with an HP geometry on the riser. Also, it is interesting that the "wider" design touted for the Epik and the Faktor seems abandoned. It looks as wide as the Prodigy was. I guess they took all that material to the limb pocket area for more moment of inertia.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

The velos limbs look cool. Don’t care much for the riser. 


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## martinfuchs (Jan 18, 2017)

I noticed that the Epik is on clearance sale at https://www.alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0060253.8.12897992899215195120/EPIKSALE

I’ve heard mention of the Alternative web shop but don’t really know if this means anything or not. 

Does anybody remember if the Faktor and Epik were released the same day?


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## Charles A Smith (Dec 9, 2014)

I think I'd prefer this one. With Formula limbs.


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## anmactire (Sep 4, 2012)

Charles A Smith said:


> I think I'd prefer this one. With Formula limbs.
> 
> View attachment 6642351


You know, I might actually buy that if it was ILF ha


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## S.B. (Sep 26, 2012)

This sales pitch puts to shame best used car salesmen. Nothing to do with engineering, not a single measurable and verifiable fact. Lots of buzzwords.

https://youtu.be/aNcJDh_Qo6w


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

One thing we have all counted on from Hoyt for the past 15+ years is that every new model is "the most accurate bow we've ever produced."


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I still have no idea how Doug never ages. I've known him for more than 12 years and he looks exactly the same as he did in '06. 

I think he does a pretty good job of explaining the design features of the new riser without getting all technical like a lot of engineers would do. Having said that - there really is nothing new under the sun for target recurve risers (for example - moving the weight toward the limb pockets was done 18 years ago with the Mathews TR-7), and from my point of view, every screw in a recurve riser is one more opportunity for failure at the worst possible time. The trouble with MIT engineers is that they sometimes struggle with simplicity.


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## S.B. (Sep 26, 2012)

One of his statements is absolutely absurd: they made limbs narrower to make them more stable. Following this logic they can make them even more narrow up to the point that bow will just unstring itself.
In fact the opposite is true: wider means more stable.
I am pretty sure that they have means to measure flex, twist, vibration of the riser, but will not publish them. Because there is nothing new since Mr. Earl Hoyt developed TD4.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

There isn't "much" new since the TD-4 but there are some new things. If someone told me all I could shoot was my old TD-4 after having my Axis, TR-7, Bernardini Luxor or Gillo, I'd probably just go play golf. LOL

I think Doug is just trying to keep it simple and brief. I'm sure he would be more than happy to go into lengthy detail about the stability comment if you asked him in person. I've never seen him shy away from explaining something he designed.


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## S.B. (Sep 26, 2012)

One thing that was different when Hoyt belonged to Mr. Hoyt. You could take any limbs, put them in any riser and resulting bow was perfectly straight and on plane, no adjustments. I have never seen or heard of twisted or broken Hoyt limbs then.
On the contrary in the 90s you could not find a straight pair of Hoyt limbs. That when all this adjustments started, pushing responsibility to make a straight bow on the archer.
For sure materials are better now, but I would take straight glass limbs over twisted or broken nano-super-carbons any day.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

On the contrary, the fun is just beginning.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

I’m not sure that’s true. One of the benefits of shooting a longbow compared to a recurve is that it is almost impossible to torque a longbow limb. If that’s what you mean by stability. So narrow/thicker limbs should be more stable to my thinking. I don’t have math to back that up, but the comparison is there. 


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## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

Gregjlongbow said:


> One of the benefits of shooting a longbow compared to a recurve is that it is almost impossible to torque a longbow limb.


If that's true, I would suspect that's more due to the limb curve than the limb shape. The fact that longbows can afford to be slimmer seems to be evidence of this, then; as the curve was added, the limbs needed to become flat to maintain stability. That's consistent with thinner limbs being less stable.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Gregjlongbow said:


> I’m not sure that’s true. One of the benefits of shooting a longbow compared to a recurve is that it is almost impossible to torque a longbow limb.


This.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

PregnantGuppy said:


> If that's true, I would suspect that's more due to the limb curve than the limb shape. The fact that longbows can afford to be slimmer seems to be evidence of this, then; as the curve was added, the limbs needed to become flat to maintain stability. That's consistent with thinner limbs being less stable.


Definitely. The recurve is less stable (but probably not practically) that a longbow for that reason too.

And for that reason I will now be shooting a 74" bow with a 25" riser, and XXL border raptor longbow limbs.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

For anyone wanting to see the new set up. 

https://youtu.be/C8CwKBZbE_M


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