# Arrow size



## DragondadB (Nov 27, 2020)

I've been watching videos of tournaments alot lately. Something I've noticed is the arrows are huge! I get that a thicker arrow might break a line to the next ring, but isn't it getting a bit rediculous? With the incredible accuracy and quality of equipment, is this now the only thing left to separate the skill level? How far will it go? Personally, I would think that there should be a small limit. Throwing a telephone pole at a target doesn't seem fair. Opinions?


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## Z3R0 (Nov 6, 2014)

There are already limits. In World Archery the maximum arrow diameter is 9.3mm or 23/64" and in NFAA I believe is it 27/64".

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## Jcagle89 (Feb 16, 2016)

As Z3RO stated different archery types have set limits on arrow size. ASA has a limit of 0.422" on shaft diameter. 

Also something to note, the larger shafts are less forgiving to shoot.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Like above WA, NAA, and FITA has limit of 9.3 mm. .422" is maximum for ASA, IBO and NFAA, which are the top 3 organizations in the U.S.

I shoot mostly all 3D. For me I personally feel the "hypodermic needles" should be banned for 3D. Basically, anything under .280" diameter. I personally witnessed these penetrate to the opposite side of brand new 3D targets. 

That which brought about the rule of max diameter was the 60X Gold Tip. Pic - 30X (.399" diameter) to the 60X. The 60X was banned within a year. The initial rule came from the NFAA and the ASA and IBO followed suit....


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## DragondadB (Nov 27, 2020)

So the larger sizes are put in place because of too much penitration? I guess I didn't consider that. Make sense, I suppose. Wouldn't a denser target solve that as well? I guess my feeling against it is that because shooters are so good, .0something can actually make a big difference from one side of the line to the other.


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## Z3R0 (Nov 6, 2014)

Thicker arrows originally would have been made to allow the arrows to become stiffer, to allow them to tune with heavier/faster bows. This is obviously not really needed anymore for carbon arrow shafts since they can be plenty stiff in micro diameters, but for wooden and aluminum arrows it's certainly still a significant factor.

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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

DragondadB said:


> So the larger sizes are put in place because of too much penitration? I guess I didn't consider that. Make sense, I suppose. Wouldn't a denser target solve that as well? I guess my feeling against it is that because shooters are so good, .0something can actually make a big difference from one side of the line to the other.


No, not because of too much penetration. The legal maximum diameter arrow came about years ago, around 15 years ago.. The 27/64 Easton was available long before it's diameter became the set standard. 

The "hypodermic needles" I noted have diameters down to .200" and smaller.


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## ScottDiGi (Dec 4, 2020)

I shoot a 28" arrow at 30yds. Longer distances they do not fly as well. I used some longer ones at an outdoor range and could notice the difference in the flight pattern.


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## DragondadB (Nov 27, 2020)

ScottDiGi said:


> I shoot a 28" arrow at 30yds. Longer distances they do not fly as well. I used some longer ones at an outdoor range and could notice the difference in the flight pattern.


No, I'm talking diameter, not length. In tournaments, they use really thick arrows.
If you're having trouble with longer distance, I doubt the length has much to do with it. At least the way your thinking. I'm nobody to be giving advice, I'm newer too. But it may be the spine flex or something out of tune on your bow. 
I first started with 500 spine and I could actually see them go sideways before hitting the target. I shortened them up and it got a little better. My next set were 340's and they flew very straight. Had 100 grain tips for both. That matters too.


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## toxy2020 (Jan 24, 2021)

It's worth noting (and checking your own equipment) that line cutter /fat arrows are only a benefit if the groups are the same size and if they are aimed in the correct place. 

Some of the potential issues are that people assume that the groups will be the same size for both sizes of arrows with equal forgiveness but rarely do due diligence and check. 

And outdoors they tend to fail to allow for wind and arrow drop over distance.

Wind isn't always an issue but sometimes it can be a major problem, generally more so with fatter arrows. 

Finally arrow drop can favour either way but it should be considered, fat arrows can be lighter but may have greater aerodynamic drag and lighter tends to mean less forgiving. 

Overall you pay the money make a choice or you spend extra and actually test it out. Testing can be both time consuming and expensive. 

As a tinkerer I have always liked trying different ! But experience suggests that for me skinny ish arrows are closer to optimal and I would rather have one arrow and one setup for everything, than fudge or swap setups.

(I currently have 6 different setups but with very little cross contamination, I found trying to shoot similar but different setups tended to mean I shot neither well ,primary is UL also have BB, Pins, CBB, HT and LB(English))

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## Rabbit57 (Jun 15, 2012)

Fair is when the vast majority are using the same sized arrows for NFAA and USAA.


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## Nick72 (Aug 14, 2020)

This only really effects indoor and very short distance archery, the 50m outdoor crowd seem to be using 166 micro-diameter and similar.

But considering 18m Indoor is the most popular sport within archery, I think it's worth talking about.

I completely agree with the OP that 23's and 27's look more like javalin, and every competitor is using the biggest O.D. allowed, because there is a clear competitive advantage.

As a spectator I don't really enjoy the awarding of 10 points for a big fat arrow that is 95% outside the 10 ring, and would feel a lot better about awarding those points if it was a 166.

I'd go further, only award a 10 if your arrow is 100% inside the 10 ring, if you touch the line it's a 9.

But of the two, I think forcing all competitors to shoot a micro diameter arrow (similar to the 166) would be my preference.


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## Tipe (May 19, 2018)

Nick72 said:


> This only really effects indoor and very short distance archery, the 50m outdoor crowd seem to be using 166 micro-diameter and similar.
> 
> But considering 18m Indoor is the most popular sport within archery, I think it's worth talking about.
> 
> ...


World Archery rules is touching line, IFAA rules is cutting line. (IFAA-NFAA same rules I guess)
Doesn't make any difference except that IFAA rule is harder to see in actual situations.
Easier to check if touch line that it will cut it totally. 

After all World Archery 3D that fat arrow is not always advance.
U shoot 2 arrows from same pole to same target. And there might be 1-7 arrows already, depending on target/distance.
If U shoot center 11 with 9.3mm arrow from close distance it's highly possible that U get ping's when U shoot your second arrow.
In longer distance targets U might be that last one who shoot's from your group and your last arrow, there might be 7 arrows waiting.

Example:
If U shoot nock off from another arrow what's already in target and 'cause of that U' totally miss that target, then it's that arrow's points from what U bounced off.
But if it bounce into 5p, then it's 5p. I usually get more those bounces to same target worse area than total misses by bounce.

So that's why I use smaller dia arrow. But then I don't get so much line touches but that's that.
U gain some U loose some. Usually wind drift isn't that big of a problem in 3D.
Is happy middle best.... don't know for sure ? 
I shoot 3DHV's and don't change them when I shoot IFAA rules.
If I had 2 different bows for 3D, maybe then I would.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

ScottDiGi said:


> I shoot a 28" arrow at 30yds. Longer distances they do not fly as well. I used some longer ones at an outdoor range and could notice the difference in the flight pattern.


28" arrow. I would say you need tune your bow...... I've shot longer arrows. Build is somewhat critical, right point weight, right vane. Vanes choice is a personal preference, but should not change would be a good FOC....


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Rabbit57 said:


> Fair is when the vast majority are using the same sized arrows for NFAA and USAA.


Fair is what you want use to compete against someone. The NFAA (ASA and IBO) has the legal limit in place. I don't know about the USAA, but seems 9.3 mm (.366") is the legal limit for most other different organizations.

Years back I competed with Carbon Express CX300s, .290" diameter. I can't remember not placing. In fact, shooting Adult Bow Hunter Free Style I shoot record high two years in row at this Indoor range for league - 296 and up to 300 on the NFAA 5 spot. Okay, a bow hunting bow, nothing like they use today. Others used the legal 25/64 and 27/64.

You want to win you have to do your "home work."

Today I use FITA legal arrows for all events. Not skinny, but then not logs...New arrows arrived today and they are .350" in diameter....I don't feel undermined if some one uses larger diameters.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Nick72 said:


> This only really effects indoor and very short distance archery, the 50m outdoor crowd seem to be using 166 micro-diameter and similar.
> 
> But considering 18m Indoor is the most popular sport within archery, I think it's worth talking about.
> 
> ...


Indoors is not the most popular sport with archery. It is far 2nd to 3D. Indoor is most a indoor winter sport.

Micro diameter arrows have proved their worth for distance shooting, like Field or Outdoor. For Indoor and 3D I feel they ought to banned.

There was at one time a push for the 9.3 arrow here in the U.S.A. It was crushed.

Scoring rules have been in place for years.


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## DragondadB (Nov 27, 2020)

Well, I finally got some bigger arrows. 2213's. Actually, I got really good deal on them. Not the biggest, I believe, but I think that that will probably be the biggest I'd go, where allowed.
It's kinda weird shooting them but I'm getting used to it. They certainly fill the space between the lines! Lol My score continues to rise as do the number of X's. I don't have a scale to weigh them but they feel lighter than the thinner shafts. Might just be the material, these are T9 areospace alloy, whatever that is. Feels like aluminium. 
Question for those that have used these. One of them has a small dent in it. I'm sure the correct answer is toss it, but how safe is that? I know the chance of it bending when it hits the target, and if that happens, I don't really care. It's technically dead anyway. But my wonder is that, is it possible for it to have a malfunction at launch? Could it conceivably blow up or bend when I release?


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## Tipe (May 19, 2018)

DragondadB said:


> Question for those that have used these. One of them has a small dent in it. I'm sure the correct answer is toss it, but how safe is that? I know the chance of it bending when it hits the target, and if that happens, I don't really care. It's technically dead anyway. But my wonder is that, is it possible for it to have a malfunction at launch? Could it conceivably blow up or bend when I release?


I ditched my Easton X23 2315's 'cause of that. When U shoot FLINT indoors those arrows are goners way too easily.
I break few when practicing so I needed to make adjustments so that I wont shoot in same spot more than 2.
And brake few anyways but not every shoot like I did if I was shooting normal competition round.
Carbon can take hit's way more than those..

About that dent, I would just ditch it.. not bothered to take any risk and after all, it will shoot way different than other arrows.


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