# Are Nock2It and Silverback releases really that good?



## myang1989 (Dec 11, 2016)

I've been monitoring the classifieds for the past 2-3 weeks and I can't help but noticing used Nock2It and Silverbacks flying off the shelves for asking price, even if the asking price is higher than MSRP of a new release. My questions are: are these releases really _that_ good? Is it because John Dudley had input in their designs? Is it because there is none available for sale through normal retailers? What do these releases offer that other good releases don't (like Stan Sx3, for example)? Is this just a passing fad?


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

I'm liking mine so far nock it 2 that I have. I like the two finger design, with the three or four fingers I had I would have some pulled shots if I didn't have good follow thru but with the two fingers the pulled shots I have and not far off like I seen with the 3/4 fingers I've owned. 
I've not shot it more then 200 times so can't really give it a full review since I haven't hunted with it yet.


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## ppkaprince98 (Mar 13, 2008)

myang1989 said:


> My questions are: are these releases really _that_ good? Is it because John Dudley had input in their designs? Is it because there is none available for sale through normal retailers? What do these releases offer that other good releases don't (like Stan Sx3, for example)? Is this just a passing fad?


They are two finger which you dont see much of. Does that make them better, NO. Does Dudley marketing them make them sell faster, YES. Are they a new fad "combo" to help train you to shoot with back tension (yes). Do they work, YES. Can you buy the same two releases from Carter any day of the week in 3 finger, YES. Did I fall into the new cool trap, YES. However, I do like the two finger design and I have learned to shoot like Dudley teaches. Will prices come down as more are sold over some time, YES. Are they they greatest releases ever, NO. I cant name one pro thats competes with one today. Will you shoot a STAN sx3 just as well or better, VERY POSSIBLY. Stand makes an awesome release, I had one and would buy one again.

Hope this helps.


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## Trippy (Dec 26, 2014)

ppkaprince98 said:


> They are two finger which you dont see much of. Does that make them better, NO. Does Dudley marketing them make them sell faster, YES. Are they a new fad "combo" to help train you to shoot with back tension (yes). Do they work, YES. Can you buy the same two releases from Carter any day of the week in 3 finger, YES. Did I fall into the new cool trap, YES. However, I do like the two finger design and I have learned to shoot like Dudley teaches. Will prices come down as more are sold over some time, YES. Are they they greatest releases ever, NO. I cant name one pro thats competes with one today. Will you shoot a STAN sx3 just as well or better, VERY POSSIBLY. Stand makes an awesome release, I had one and would buy one again.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Carter Wise Choice and Evolution have been around for some time and they still sell new for $200. What makes you think the Nock 2 It and Silverback will lower in price if those haven't?

I have all four and like all four equally.


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## myang1989 (Dec 11, 2016)

So, it's a combination of marketing, short supply, prominent associated name, and coolness factor at this point?


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Trippy said:


> Carter Wise Choice and Evolution have been around for some time and they still sell new for $200. What makes you think the Nock 2 It and Silverback will lower in price if those haven't?
> 
> I have all four and like all four equally.


Agreed. The prices aren't coming down. That's what you will pay for a good release like a Carter.


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## myang1989 (Dec 11, 2016)

Trippy said:


> Carter Wise Choice and Evolution have been around for some time and they still sell new for $200. What makes you think the Nock 2 It and Silverback will lower in price if those haven't?
> 
> I have all four and like all four equally.


Used Nock2It and Silverback releases sell at or above new prices, which is not normal IMO.

Used wise choice and evolution releases do not sell at new prices.

I think he means that in a few months, used nock2it and silverback releases will be found at a discount from new ones. For example, used Stan Sx3 releases can be found at $100 below original new price.


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## Keith t (Oct 31, 2008)

I have a silverback and I like it. I found it more fun to shoot than the Evo. because I like the two finger option . mechanically the Evo. and SB are the same.


I want a Nock 2 it because I've been shooting thumb triggers lately but I'm finding much more consistency with a hinge. I don't know if it's worth my 200 for a N2I


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## ppkaprince98 (Mar 13, 2008)

Trippy said:


> Carter Wise Choice and Evolution have been around for some time and they still sell new for $200. What makes you think the Nock 2 It and Silverback will lower in price if those haven't?
> 
> I have all four and like all four equally.


I was referring to used prices.


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

Did anyone on the "list" get the email from nockon on 1/1/17 with the chance to buy? 


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## Keith t (Oct 31, 2008)

ss315 said:


> Did anyone on the "list" get the email from nockon on 1/1/17 with the chance to buy?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


NO, did he send out notifications?


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

He said on the prevail cam change video that it was suppose to happen on 1/1. 


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## catskin (May 15, 2016)

Yes I got an email after Christmas but I don't remember the date. 2.5 hours later I logged on and they were gone.


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

catskin said:


> Yes I got an email after Christmas but I don't remember the date. 2.5 hours later I logged on and they were gone.


I got that email too, went on instantly and while checking out it said wasn't available anymore. 

I emailed them and ms Sharon said that was IT Error that they were still going to go off the list that he mentioned in the most recent prevail video. 


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## Keith t (Oct 31, 2008)

ss315 said:


> I got that email too, went on instantly and while checking out it said wasn't available anymore.
> 
> I emailed them and ms Sharon said that was IT Error that they were still going to go off the list that he mentioned in the most recent prevail video.
> 
> ...


he said there were more people on the waiting list than he had releases for.

Oh well


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

The index hole fad took hold a ways back. About every release company has one. Two finger hinges have been around for a while. One thing I found was my index finger gets a work out. Another that stands out is a two finger for me sucks compared to a 3 finger for the finger ease. Just seems my index finger wants to curl so that feeling anchor sucks...Regardless, I have no desire to sale my older Stan Deuce 2 finger. I did sell my Stan Onyx 2 finger. The Onyx hasn't been advertised in Lancaster's catalog since the 2013-2014 catalog. So not a big sales item should point out something.

With the majority of my hand helds I can get along using a 3 finger as a two finger if I start out using 3 fingers. Doesn't make any difference whether a thumb release or hinge.

My 2 finger and 3 finger Whalen Hooker Pin Wheel releases also give my index finger a work out as did my Scott Halo when used with 2 fingers. 

I started out liking the index hole releases and just drifted away from them.


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## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

The email sent out Thursday was a mis-sent email...Their new website designer made a change to the site & made the N2I available,which in turn,led an email to be sent to ppl that were on the waiting list.

They're doing the purchasing process numerically... So whoever submitted the "Notify Me" box will be given the first chance to buy the N2I & would have 2 days to purchase. If no payment was received the next person in line would get the chance to get a N2I. There are more N2I coming in weekly now, so keep your eye on your email notifications!

As far as the release itself goes,they are definitely nice! The 2 finger design isnt for everyone & is why you find them for sale on here ever so often. The scarcity of the release is the reason for the held value.

I own both the N2I & Silverback & love them both! Both releases are just a copy off of 2 current releases in the Carter line up,just in a 2 finger design(Wise Choice/Evolution). The trigger on the N2I is heavy though,definitely heavier than releases that I've had in the past.SUPER CRISP though!!! The Silverback definitely takes some getting used to,especially if you like to roll your back tension shot. It will be a more demanding release but in turn will be rewarding once somewhat mastered.


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## BillyRay (Oct 16, 2003)

A release is only as good as YOU can shoot it. Just get a quality release that feels good in your hand and stick with it.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

myang1989 said:


> So, it's a combination of marketing, short supply, prominent associated name, and coolness factor at this point?


Pretty much.


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## catskin (May 15, 2016)

Bryan Thacker said:


> The email sent out Thursday was a mis-sent email...Their new website designer made a change to the site & made the N2I available,which in turn,led an email to be sent to ppl that were on the waiting list.
> 
> They're doing the purchasing process numerically... So whoever submitted the "Notify Me" box will be given the first chance to buy the N2I & would have 2 days to purchase. If no payment was received the next person in line would get the chance to get a N2I. There are more N2I coming in weekly now, so keep your eye on your email notifications!
> 
> ...


so since the email went out I assume we lost our place in line? sigh. at least I resigned when I saw they were still out of stock.


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

catskin said:


> so since the email went out I assume we lost our place in line? sigh. at least I resigned when I saw they were still out of stock.


I asked that same question and ms Sharon said they still had the "List" and would be working off of that original one. I too noticed that it allowed me to select to be renotified and I was like oh no! Did I lose my place online but was assured I hadn't. 


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## madball13 (Oct 28, 2014)

I have both and find them to be great. 

As for used pricing supply versus demand. It's really simple economics.


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## MAD 6 (Nov 8, 2015)

How different or difficult is it for Carter to make a ton of these and sell them? Dudley said on his site that Carter didn't have time to make their other releases because they were too busy filling his order. Why is Carter even bothering to make all those other releases that not many people are buying? They should take advantage of this latest fad, I'm buying a few just to turn around for profit, put those suckers on fleabay and start the bidding at $250 - check my listing, search for Slice Bread #2.


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

MAD 6 said:


> How different or difficult is it for Carter to make a ton of these and sell them? Dudley said on his site that Carter didn't have time to make their other releases because they were too busy filling his order. Why is Carter even bothering to make all those other releases that not many people are buying? They should take advantage of this latest fad, I'm buying a few just to turn around for profit, put those suckers on fleabay and start the bidding at $250 - check my listing, search for Slice Bread #2.


Haha if you had one FS at $250 I would buy it, that way I can get on with my life and no longer be tethered to having to refresh the classifieds listings every 5mins or less lol. 


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## catskin (May 15, 2016)

ss315 said:


> I asked that same question and ms Sharon said they still had the "List" and would be working off of that original one. I too noticed that it allowed me to select to be renotified and I was like oh no! Did I lose my place online but was assured I hadn't.


Outstanding.


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## Hogie76 (Jul 24, 2016)

I have a nock 2 it and like it. It's a very comfortable release in my opinion. I think it's one of those things that people have to try for themselves and then decide.


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## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

MAD 6 said:


> How different or difficult is it for Carter to make a ton of these and sell them? Dudley said on his site that Carter didn't have time to make their other releases because they were too busy filling his order. Why is Carter even bothering to make all those other releases that not many people are buying? They should take advantage of this latest fad, I'm buying a few just to turn around for profit, put those suckers on fleabay and start the bidding at $250 - check my listing, search for Slice Bread #2.


I absolutely agree with you! Every Carter release ever made is in multiple retailers... They're not hard to get! If you have a release such as the Silverback/N2I that is that high in demand,Carter needs to capitalize & make their profits while the getting is good!

A friend got the email last Sunday,he purchased his N2I immediately,after making his purchase,he went back to the link Nock On sent to purchase another for his wife...NO GO! They will have a limit on purchases so that back log of people wanting releases will have a chance to purchase one.


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## ppkaprince98 (Mar 13, 2008)

I might sell mine if they are going for that much!!!


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## Super Roop (Dec 13, 2016)

I got my notice and it will be at the house when I get home, I think John does a lot for the archery world in his vids and pod cast so this is a great way to support Nock On IMO.


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## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

Super Roop said:


> I got my notice and it will be at the house when I get home, I think John does a lot for the archery world in his vids and pod cast so this is a great way to support Nock On IMO.


Nice! Congrats & enjoy it. It's a great release for sure!


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## Cass Via Jr. (Aug 27, 2014)

ppkaprince98 said:


> I might sell mine if they are going for that much!!!


I may buy it! Lol


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

Bryan Thacker said:


> I absolutely agree with you! Every Carter release ever made is in multiple retailers... They're not hard to get! If you have a release such as the Silverback/N2I that is that high in demand,Carter needs to capitalize & make their profits while the getting is good!
> .


A couple thoughts come to mind. First, I'm not sure they anticipated the demand. It doesn't even come with its own packaging. Mine came in Wise Choice packaging. Second, there is something to be said about scarcity creating demand. Kind of like 22 ammo. You see it available, it's a feeding frenzy to get it. 


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## 1faith (Dec 8, 2010)

ss315 said:


> Did anyone on the "list" get the email from nockon on 1/1/17 with the chance to buy?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got the email and ordered mine Monday, got it priority mail yesterday. Haven't gotten a chance to shoot yet but l have played with it and first impression seems like it's going to be a great release.


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

1faith said:


> I got the email and ordered mine Monday, got it priority mail yesterday. Haven't gotten a chance to shoot yet but l have played with it and first impression seems like it's going to be a great release.


You are a lucky man 


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## itr2000 (Mar 2, 2012)

What sucks is the false email showed in my JUNK email!!!! I didnt even see it. If they send the second wave im scared the same thing will happen!


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

itr2000 said:


> What sucks is the false email showed in my JUNK email!!!! I didnt even see it. If they send the second wave im scared the same thing will happen!


That happen to me during the November batch had to add the email to the safe list. 


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## R0CKETMAN (Sep 10, 2008)

ss315 said:


> Did anyone on the "list" get the email from nockon on 1/1/17 with the chance to buy?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes and chose to just run with my evo


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## itr2000 (Mar 2, 2012)

I did not see anything from 1/1


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## jdw2920 (Oct 23, 2016)

At least the demand is there so if you don't like it can move it on


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## Super Roop (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes I got it and purchased one, then on Tuesday another email came out saying if you hadn't bought yours it would be going on down the list.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

Idk but I want a nock2it to find out , 


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## Cass Via Jr. (Aug 27, 2014)

Found a brand new never used Silverback in the classifieds some how...should be here Monday. Can't wait. Now I need a Nock 2 It


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

Haha this thread is totally hijacked. 


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## jdw2920 (Oct 23, 2016)

Cass Via Jr. said:


> Found a brand new never used Silverback in the classifieds some how...should be here Monday. Can't wait. Now I need a Nock 2 It
> 
> I've got one on the way if i dont like it I'll let you have a shot at


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## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

Here you go guys! 

https://www.facebook.com/john.dudley.92775/videos/1783022918626399/


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## Cass Via Jr. (Aug 27, 2014)

jdw2920 said:


> Cass Via Jr. said:
> 
> 
> > Found a brand new never used Silverback in the classifieds some how...should be here Monday. Can't wait. Now I need a Nock 2 It
> ...


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## jdw2920 (Oct 23, 2016)

Cass Via Jr. said:


> jdw2920 said:
> 
> 
> > Cass Via Jr. said:
> ...


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## aricpayne (Mar 1, 2013)

I just sold a Silverback on here an hour or so ago, for what I paid for it. I'm sure I could gouge it and someone would pay for it, but that's just dirty IMO...I ordered it a few months ago, just got lucky and caught an email right after they posted some available. To me, the release feels great in my hand. I wish they would make a hinge that was modeled after these two releases. 

I worked with the Silverback for a month straight. After about 3-4 shots into each session, I couldn't get my shots to break clean, which I'm sure is a breakdown in my form. I worked and worked to fix that, and it just didn't get better. It was by far the most frustrated I've been in a while. I have no issues breaking a hinge by releasing tension on my index finger and I can apply pressure with my back elbow and remove pressure from my index finger in unison, and when it breaks, I get a great follow through consistently. I shoot a bow with a really solid back wall, and I may be wrong, but I thought I heard him say on a podcast that bows with back walls (limb stops) will have a harder time breaking clean, and that is my experience.


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## Cass Via Jr. (Aug 27, 2014)

aricpayne said:


> I just sold a Silverback on here an hour or so ago, for what I paid for it. I'm sure I could gouge it and someone would pay for it, but that's just dirty IMO...I ordered it a few months ago, just got lucky and caught an email right after they posted some available. To me, the release feels great in my hand. I wish they would make a hinge that was modeled after these two releases.
> 
> I worked with the Silverback for a month straight. After about 3-4 shots into each session, I couldn't get my shots to break clean, which I'm sure is a breakdown in my form. I worked and worked to fix that, and it just didn't get better. It was by far the most frustrated I've been in a while. I have no issues breaking a hinge by releasing tension on my index finger and I can apply pressure with my back elbow and remove pressure from my index finger in unison, and when it breaks, I get a great follow through consistently. I shoot a bow with a really solid back wall, and I may be wrong, but I thought I heard him say on a podcast that bows with back walls (limb stops) will have a harder time breaking clean, and that is my experience.


I think I remember him saying that as well. Back walk with limb stops will have a harder time breaking clean shots because there is no "give" in the back wall to pull through 


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## aricpayne (Mar 1, 2013)

And that was my experience. I guess I could've added the O-rings to the limb stops to make them have some give, but I'm comfortable with the way it shoots. I pull into the wall, use that to drive my elbow back while relaxing my index. 

After a few shots with the silverback, it would feel like I was pulling as hard as I could, and it wouldn't break, when I'm sure I was just collapsing my front shoulder and creeping forward with the back, even though I felt like I was pulling. I thought at first it was the release, but I could hook it to a piece of d loop and just pull it and it would break. At one point, I had it only 1 pound over my holding weight, and was still having issues with it breaking. I'm sure for most bows it works great, but for what I'm shooting now, our marriage wasn't compatible. If it's something you want to try, don't shy away from it, I think it would be a great release and for those first few shots, I enjoyed it...



Cass Via Jr. said:


> I think I remember him saying that as well. Back walk with limb stops will have a harder time breaking clean shots because there is no "give" in the back wall to pull through
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## myang1989 (Dec 11, 2016)

The silverback isn't a hinge? Is it a pull through release?


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## Seadonist (Jan 5, 2015)

myang1989 said:


> The silverback isn't a hinge? Is it a pull through release?


Correct


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## RSayer87 (Aug 19, 2016)

Your issues with the silverback are exactly why you need the silverback. Isolate where the breakdown in form is coming from, and work to fix it.


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## R0CKETMAN (Sep 10, 2008)

myang1989 said:


> The silverback isn't a hinge? Is it a pull through release?


Two finger EVO it appears


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

Lol so I finally got my email, bought another one. Im nockon addicted!!!


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## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

Just got my email as well!


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

Lucky licky


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## websterda44 (Jan 27, 2010)

About to find out. Got a 1st choice for a good price and wouldn't you know it there is my email... couldnt help myself! guess I'll have to thin the release herd now. Thought I only had this problem with bows.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

websterda44 said:


> About to find out. Got a 1st choice for a good price and wouldn't you know it there is my email... couldnt help myself! guess I'll have to thin the release herd now. Thought I only had this problem with bows.


I'm having the same problem , starting to hoard releases in a bad way , still waiting on my email , except I think I want the silver back more than the nock 2 it , I just got a Scott signa


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## PWOODNC (Mar 6, 2005)

Just wondering if the two finger design of the silverback makes a difference in how consistent it is over the evolution? Aren't the internals the same? It seems I remember some having issues being consistent enough with the evo. Also, couldn't you just shoot the evo with two fingers?


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## ppkaprince98 (Mar 13, 2008)

PWOODNC said:


> Just wondering if the two finger design of the silverback makes a difference in how consistent it is over the evolution? Aren't the internals the same? It seems I remember some having issues being consistent enough with the evo. Also, couldn't you just shoot the evo with two fingers?


Its the same release only 2 finger. It comes with springs to set it how you want it, so not much different. Yes shoot the evolution with 2 fingers, that what I did.


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## itr2000 (Mar 2, 2012)

Im stoked as i got my email too! It shipped, cant wait to try it out. Didnt even think i was going to get an email. Anyone know if it will only be a limited time offer? Or continuing going forward after production


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## doug (Oct 10, 2002)

Did you guys pay first, or did they send you an email first? I just paid for mine on the website...


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## websterda44 (Jan 27, 2010)

Email saying it was available first.


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## doug (Oct 10, 2002)

I was on the email list over a week ago and never received a email yet. I was just browsing on the nock on site and added it to my cart. I was able to check out and pay...I guess I'll see what happens


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## catskin (May 15, 2016)

I was emailed today, ordered and paid within 30 minutes, I'm sure will ship asap.

Cool.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

itr2000 said:


> Im stoked as i got my email too! It shipped, cant wait to try it out. Didnt even think i was going to get an email. Anyone know if it will only be a limited time offer? Or continuing going forward after production


Lol why didn't you think you'd get the email ? He's been very clear how that works ? I think if it's a big hit carter will do a version of it , why wouldn't they


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## OCHO505 (May 27, 2010)

I like mine but the spring in them feels weird. I haven't got the creep to be completely gone like my Too Simple. Plus it's like the too simples easy to find and the nock 2 it's too pretty to hunt with. I'll give it a little more before I decide.


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## catskin (May 15, 2016)

Ack, my too simple is so crisp, I hope they can be tuned the same.


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## kscumminsdriver (Oct 3, 2005)

PWOODNC said:


> Just wondering if the two finger design of the silverback makes a difference in how consistent it is over the evolution? Aren't the internals the same? It seems I remember some having issues being consistent enough with the evo. Also, couldn't you just shoot the evo with two fingers?


It's been said many times, if the release is inconsistent it's not because of the release... it's the shooter. That's kind of the point of the tension activated releases... the shooter has to do the same thing every time for the release to feel the same.


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## OCHO505 (May 27, 2010)

catskin said:


> Ack, my too simple is so crisp, I hope they can be tuned the same.


The directions say to back the screw out behind the thumb barrel to remove the creep... However... Do not back it all the way out. Well mine has a little creep but is also pretty far out not sure how much more I have. I don't have an issue with the hotness but creep is a no no...


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## regularguy (Nov 26, 2011)

Got mine yesterday, pretty excited to start putting some time in with it. First thumb release for me, so I'm sure it will be a learning curve 

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## shollz (Aug 5, 2008)

i have received no emails, and i've been on the list since december. Carter introduced the evolution 2 at ATA. They only had a picture of it, but it looks like it will get rid of the springs and use a piston. Not available until may


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## ss315 (Apr 22, 2015)

shollz said:


> i have received no emails, and i've been on the list since december. Carter introduced the evolution 2 at ATA. They only had a picture of it, but it looks like it will get rid of the springs and use a piston. Not available until may


Hot Dam that sounds cool. The release addiction continues. This is getting worse that than buying dozens of different arrows to try hahaha lol...!


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## itr2000 (Mar 2, 2012)

bambikiller said:


> Lol why didn't you think you'd get the email ? He's been very clear how that works ? I think if it's a big hit carter will do a version of it , why wouldn't they
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because im an unlucky person most times lol


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## R0CKETMAN (Sep 10, 2008)

The real "debate" appears two vs three/four. 

That's the feedback I'd like to learn.


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## websterda44 (Jan 27, 2010)

I have mainly shot a 3 finger. I broke my hand years ago and my pinky is a little crooked so four fingers never worked well for me. I have a shootoff 2 finger and have also taken the finger extension out of my scott backspin to run two. I really feel like I could pull through better on the hinge with 2 vs 3, and shot execution tended to be more consistent. I am not as sold yet with the 2 finger shootoff, but alot of that is due to the release shape/size being quite a bit different than my too simple. The stan is a very nice release and it isn't anything more time using it couldn't change, but I wanted to give the nock 2 it a go since it has that familiar carter shape and feel. If I stick with a three finger the classifieds are telling me I'm not out much if it doesn't work out!


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## doug (Oct 10, 2002)

Well looks like the wait is over mine has shipped today&#55358;&#56600;


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## eriqarndt (Jan 14, 2017)

As u pull through the shot your anchor point changes by the nature of that release style. Hard to be consistent with a changing anchor point.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Carter Two Special was a great release that I shot very good they made two of them a fat body and a thin body


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## Seadonist (Jan 5, 2015)

eriqarndt said:


> As u pull through the shot your anchor point changes by the nature of that release style. Hard to be consistent with a changing anchor point.


Anchor point doesn't change. Doesn't take nearly that much movement to pull through the shot with the Silverback


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

eriqarndt said:


> As u pull through the shot your anchor point changes by the nature of that release style. Hard to be consistent with a changing anchor point.


Yea if you don't have proper form , however if you shoot it how it's intended that's not the case . 


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## hoytrdye (Aug 11, 2007)

There is one on Ebay! happy bidding LOL


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## R0CKETMAN (Sep 10, 2008)

hoytrdye said:


> There is one on Ebay! happy bidding LOL


Scam maybe...non rated seller with Crackhead bin price.


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