# Old Guys Thread



## archerykid13

Hey guys, this is a thread for straight spot shooting discussion. You can use this thread to ask questions about your setup, show people your scores or talk about spots in general.

Jake


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## N7709K

lol, bout time


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## N7709K

bridge did well at presley's 60x and a 22x vegas.. took 11th in pro


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## archerykid13

Yeah I'm tired of all the other crap. Nice.


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## archerykid13

Lets try and keep this at the top.


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## outdoorsman3

darn.. I dont shoot spots.. haha


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## isaacdahl

Just wanna know why it's called the "old guys" thread?


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## gunner77

gotta question for u guys i may be getting a z7 extreme for christmas. I am planning on bowhunting and shooting indoor/outdoor 3D with it, but would like to set it up for shooting spots as well. Do you guys have any suggestions? and with the proper equipment and a sure shot would it be a decent setup?


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## isaacdahl

Ok, so I don't shoot much indoors, but a z7x is really short if you plan on doing serious indoor shooting. It'll work alright, but still most people prefer a longer ata bow for target shooting. I know a longer ata helps me a lot in 3d and long range stuff and I know most guys who shoot a lot of spots also prefer longer ata.

Besides that, yes, if properly set up, you could probably shoot well with it, it would just demand more out of the shooter.


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## gunner77

i definately understand that i am just planning on getting this kind of bow because i mostly hunt and shoot 3d but would love to get more into comp, thanks for the input


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## isaacdahl

If you don't have the extra money for a target style bow, a monster would be a good inbetween target/hunting bow. It's still a little short for my taste, but it would most likely hold a lot better for ya then a z series. And if your open to other brands, a pse supra would be really nice for the money.


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## archerykid13

I agree with what Isaac said about the Monster or possibly Supra being a better choice for you. And I think those 2 would be a better choice without spots. Both of those would be a great choice for a hunting/3D bow. Setup wise there are a few things you could do:
1. Setup bow with hunting gear thats more 3D/spot oriented. Such as limbdriver, Armortech HD, stuff like that.
2. Buy a decent setup for target used. Like some Axcel sights, Brite Site Pro Tuner, a decent scope(Jacob and I prefer True Spot) and some decent target arrows(Fatboys are some good ones).

Jake


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## N7709K

a z7x will work for indoor, but your form has to be perfect every shot.

if you put a good set of stabilizers on it, a good sight and scope, and then a blade you can fair ok... but the form is going to matter, alot.

I would say just get a longer bow, you do not need a short bow for hunting and if you are contemplating longer shots on game a longer ata bow will make that much easier.


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## gunner77

i know what you guys are getting at i completely understand, im just stuck on the z7x i dont know yet but my dad may have went and bought it for me for xmas tonite. if so im planning to put a limbriver and some type of stab idk yet??? and possibly a sword sight whats your opinions on stabbs?


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## archerykid13

A stab for hunting or both? Id get a B-Stinger Pro Hunter 12".


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## gunner77

i want something for comp but not overly long, decent price too


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## N7709K

for stabs, i'd say get a 15" main and a 12" back... bout 22oz of weight.. 2 4 and then the rest in singles.... 

you can get them in black or dipped


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## archerykid13

What Jacob said and id look for some used B-Stinger XLs or some Doinker Fatty's.


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## gunner77

thanks for the advice guys


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## archerykid13

No problem man. Ask any spots questions you have.


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## N7709K

i know some good shooters that have some some awesome scores with teh z7x, but they are amazing shooters... they are running full sets of stabs tho, 24" main and 12" backs


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## archerykid13

Thats sweet Jacob. I could never get past the short ATA.


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## N7709K

here is what i am shooting currently on my backup/hunting rig, its a pair of 12" 11oz pro hunters


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## archerykid13

Show off jkjk Jacob. Hows the Burner shooting?


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## N7709K

Duane price shot a pair of 60x games with 50+I/o's with one


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## archerykid13

Holy crap!!!! Thats sick!


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## outdoorsman193

What arrows are we shooting? I'm setting up some full bores with 4" feathers and 200-250 gr. Pro points (200 gr. easton tips till the pro points come in). This is my first year, my qualifier for our league was a 300 with 52 X's with a/c/e's, hoping I can get that 60 X by the end of the season.


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## archerykid13

Im using 2712 Eclipses with 4" or 5" feathers with pin points. Can't remember what weight.


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## outdoorsman193

Ya that was my first thought, but I also wanna use them for ASA, so I'll just through some lighter tips in them and refletch them.


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## archerykid13

That makes since. Im using Fullbores or Fatboys for ASA this year.


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## outdoorsman193

fatboys are nice


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## archerykid13

Fatboys are very nice. I really like Fullbores too.


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## outdoorsman193

Ya, I just figured they'd be a better alternative to a .340 spine Fatboy.


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## archerykid13

Definitely. What bow you shooting?


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## outdoorsman193

A Alpha Elite. For ASA it'll be last years model, for IBO it'll be the new one lol


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## archerykid13

Nice. Im buying a VE+ when I get my job.


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## outdoorsman193

Great bow. I'm sure if my DL grows anymore I'll end up with one.


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## archerykid13

Its the best target bow on the market IMO.


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## N7709K

I had bores 30" c to c, 250gr pins.... Hardest arrows to tune I've ever shot, they hot decent but I went back to 27's and 23's. I'm almost tempted to just stick with 2315's they shoot so well


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## N7709K

My alpha liked them way more than my vantage, ae spines weak so they flew much better than the ve+


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## archerykid13

I might try out some 23's if they shoot so well.


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## N7709K

2315's shoot as well as 2712's but they dont bend.... I'm sold on them.


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## archerykid13

I might have to buy a few to test em out. It makes me mad, I have 1.5 dozen 2712s, all my points, and my feathers but no bow haha.


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## N7709K

Yep, I know the feeling.... 

I may get some more bores and test some diff stuff but everyone I know who uses them barring 1 went back to alu


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## Billmeyer

I'm new to shooting spots and was wondering if you keep arrows full length or cut them to fit your draw as you do hunting?

Thanks, Billmeyer


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## chickentl1000

Does anyone else have a problem seeing the pin indoors ? I have been told to use a dot or ring on my scope. Only prob is that a lot of the targets we shoot at indoors are animal targets. Not round targets. Will the ring still work ok for that ? And can j use the ring outside for 3d. Any help would be great. Trying to set up my conquest triumph and def need some help. Thanks again


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## archerykid13

Billmeyer said:


> I'm new to shooting spots and was wondering if you keep arrows full length or cut them to fit your draw as you do hunting?
> 
> Thanks, Billmeyer





chickentl1000 said:


> Does anyone else have a problem seeing the pin indoors ? I have been told to use a dot or ring on my scope. Only prob is that a lot of the targets we shoot at indoors are animal targets. Not round targets. Will the ring still work ok for that ? And can j use the ring outside for 3d. Any help would be great. Trying to set up my conquest triumph and def need some help. Thanks again


 To answer your question Billmeyer, my arrows usually stay full length but it just depends on what they need to spec at. Right now I believe theyre 31".

In your case chickentl, I would use a dot since you use animal targets and it will be doubling as 3D setup too. The only time you use a ring is on real 5 spot or vegas target.

Jake


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## N7709K

For spot arrows it depends on the arrows and the the spec o the bow. Most of mine are about 30-32" tho


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## isaacdahl

So jake, I can't decide whether I should go with 2 10" for my hs setup (for 3d, not spots, so sorry I'm writing on the wrong thread) because once I start adding weights, I'm gonna have almost a twelve incher until I go with a larger (diameter wise) weight such as an 8oz.

I really like to have at least a 12" main, but I still want it to be ibo legal. Ideas...?


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## N7709K

The longer the bar and the more concentrated the weight is the better it will hold. So a 11.375 and a .625" 8ox weight will hold better than a 10" bar and 2" of weight


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## gunner77

so as far as stabs and back weights for the z7x a 15 in. main and 12 back 22oz. or would u guys go bigger


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

full bores really didn't work with my one XLR, maybe they will with my other one, but here's my indoor setup:
2010 Elite XLR Anthracite 55/27
Doinker Fatty's-30'' main w/4oz on front, 12'' rear w/14oz on back
Trophy Taker Spring Steel 
Sword Titan sight(for now)
Easton 2712 Eclipse w/250gr points
NO LENS(cant shoot em)
Scott Longhorn Pro release


I'll get pics tomorrow when the bow shows up!


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

gunner77 said:


> so as far as stabs and back weights for the z7x a 15 in. main and 12 back 22oz. or would u guys go bigger


don't think 22oz is needed on one back bar for a z7x, unless you decide to load tons of weight on the front bar, but it's all personal preference


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## chickentl1000

I see a lot of people shoot 4 or 5 inch feathers indoors . What is the advantage to that over blazers ? Also will the feathers be hood for outside 3d ?


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## Rebel17

SHOOT FOBS...:wink:


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

chickentl1000 said:


> I see a lot of people shoot 4 or 5 inch feathers indoors . What is the advantage to that over blazers ? Also will the feathers be hood for outside 3d ?


they always say that feathers are more forgiving for a heavier spot arrow... but it's all personal preference on what to shoot.


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## archerykid13

More forgiving and stabilize easier.


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## N7709K

22oz is split 10/12 between the bars.. needs 22oz total, don't need to use all of it but you need it.

dylan you put lighter tips in those 27's?


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## gunner77

thats why a guy i know shoots feathers on his linecutters i understand now


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## archerykid13

Yeah. Thats usually the reason.


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## N7709K

feathers catch the air better and thusly spin faster stabilizing the arrow in shorter distances.. thats the theory anyway.. you have to play and see what works best for you and your setup. i run 3" easton diamond vanes fletched offset on my 27's and they are more forgiving than 4" feathers


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## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> feathers catch the air better and thusly spin faster stabilizing the arrow in shorter distances.. thats the theory anyway.. you have to play and see what works best for you and your setup. i run 3" easton diamond vanes fletched offset on my 27's and they are more forgiving than 4" feathers


 Listen to this guy. One of the most knowledgeable people on AT.


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## isaacdahl

Do ya like your Sword Titan, Dylan? I notice you said "for now" lol. I have one and really don't care for it...soon after I bought it (used for $165) I found a few ax3000s for like $180 and then price of the Titans went down to like $100-125 on hereukey:. The clicks are so mushy and not very fine, and you can't even use a different scope other than the cyclops scope made for it. Anyways, now I don't have enough $$ to finish my open class set up so I'm just gonna set my bow up better for hs. Got that off my chest finally, haha.

Anyhow, now I have this Titan I need to get rid and I'd like at least $150 for it...anyone wanna buy it, lol? In reality though, for spots it's not to bad as you don't have to move it once you get it sighted in...only shooting one distance.

Ok, I'll stop complaining now.


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

all i recommend for the z7x is a Doinker DISH, only because i love the weight adjustability. a dish can take out the natural canting ability just like a sidebar. but just put a dish on and go have fun shooting everything.


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## archerykid13

The D.I.S.H. is the best stab for 3D IMO.


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## gunner77

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> all i recommend for the z7x is a Doinker DISH, only because i love the weight adjustability. a dish can take out the natural canting ability just like a sidebar. but just put a dish on and go have fun shooting everything.


That helps thanks man


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## gunner77

Rebel17 said:


> SHOOT FOBS...:wink:


Not to burst ur bubble but they cant cuz u cant on arrows like the line cutters or x cutters, everyone shoots vanes on them


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

isaacdahl said:


> Do ya like your Sword Titan, Dylan? I notice you said "for now" lol. I have one and really don't care for it...soon after I bought it (used for $165) I found a few ax3000s for like $180 and then price of the Titans went down to like $100-125 on hereukey:. The clicks are so mushy and not very fine, and you can't even use a different scope other than the cyclops scope made for it. Anyways, now I don't have enough $$ to finish my open class set up so I'm just gonna set my bow up better for hs. Got that off my chest finally, haha.
> 
> Anyhow, now I have this Titan I need to get rid and I'd like at least $150 for it...anyone wanna buy it, lol? In reality though, for spots it's not to bad as you don't have to move it once you get it sighted in...only shooting one distance.
> 
> Ok, I'll stop complaining now.


yeah i hear ya, it's loud and rattly, and its loose, but it does what its supposed to do.. i've shot awesome groups at 80 yards with it and a few 300's so i won't complain


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## N7709K

isaac, there should be a set screw on the knobs.. loosen them, screw the knob in and tighten to tighten up the clicks


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> isaac, there should be a set screw on the knobs.. loosen them, screw the knob in and tighten to tighten up the clicks


there isn't on the sword... it wasn't a good design, it just didn't work out.


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## N7709K

backup, how do the knobs attach then? every sight i have seen with knobs like that has a setscrew


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## isaacdahl

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> yeah i hear ya, it's loud and rattly, and its loose, but it does what its supposed to do.. i've shot awesome groups at 80 yards with it and a few 300's so i won't complain


Yeah, it'll do its job, just a lot harder to get set up.

Forgot to add my least favorite thing about it...THERE'S NO SCALE FOR THE CLICKS! Wow! What a pain in the butt to make sight tapes for!


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## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> Yeah, it'll do its job, just a lot harder to get set up.
> 
> Forgot to add my least favorite thing about it...THERE'S NO SCALE FOR THE CLICKS! Wow! What a pain in the butt to make sight tapes for!


 Yeah. That would drive me crazy Isaac.


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## N7709K

isaac its 20click 32turn for sword...same as axcel


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## DannyZack

hows an invasion for spots?


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## N7709K

invasion isn't the best, but its not the worst... the cams keep you honest so you can shoot stronger shots easier per se.. but at the ata, brace, and speed its not on my short list


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> backup, how do the knobs attach then? every sight i have seen with knobs like that has a setscrew


it's got set screws, but they just hold the knobs on, they have nothing to to do with travel/clicks, it has a ball bearing design.


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## N7709K

Dylan, the knobs thread o to the shaft... So you can tighten the knob and have a harder turn.. Or loosen it and have a lighter click... I've done it with my axcels specifically the new one that had really sticky windge... Fixed it up, jus don't lose te bearing


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> Dylan, the knobs thread o to the shaft... So you can tighten the knob and have a harder turn.. Or loosen it and have a lighter click... I've done it with my axcels specifically the new one that had really sticky windge... Fixed it up, jus don't lose te bearing


i don't think these ones screw on... i'm not positive tho, but there is no "Clicks" on these, they're just coarse threaded, fast adjustment, sloppy movement.


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> isaac its 20click 32turn for sword...same as axcel


Dude, where the heck did you find that? The website says nothing and the sight has no scale on it (so you have to count all the way from the top) and no body else I talked to could ever find it either. Also, the axcels I've played with have super fine clicks while these have rather course clicks with lots of slop like Dylan said. I probably just missed something important again, lol. But yeah, I know your not lying to me, lol, I just really want to know where you found it?

How do you make your sight tapes Dylan? Do you just buy the pre-made ones and match em up with two different yardages? That's the only way I could ever figure out how to do it, but I really wanted to be able to make my own (with a sight tape program I have) since I'm always changing things and would need new tapes.


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## N7709K

The info is on the program I have for sight tapes and scoring. It has bout 10options for click/turn ratios and lists what sights are where, it puts sword with axcel and a couple others so I'd assume it's correct.


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## isaacdahl

Huh, that's really interesting...

So how would you get that to marks per inch and clicks per mark? I guess that's the only way I've ever seen it and is how my program works. I would assume 20 clicks would be per inch (?) would a 32 pitch mean the worm gear turns 32 full rotations for every 1" (20 clicks) of travel idk?


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## isaacdahl

No, 32 rotations per inch couldn't be right either...Yeah, I'm just confusing myself here.

20 clicks is how many clicks per full revolution of the knob. That (I have to remind myself) I know...then I get lost, lol. Sometimes I post before I think.


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## N7709K

I'm not sure how it works, but it's same as axcel as of archers mark...


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## isaacdahl

Ok, good to know at least. Thanks


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## Aaron Groce

it means like 20 clicks per turn and 32 turns per inch...


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## archerykid13

Anymore spots stuff to share?


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## N7709K

Haha yeah I got lots to share... I'll put more up when I get to a keyboard


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## N7709K

i officially hate fullbores... they aren't bad until you have to build a doz..... I do not like them

ok rant over


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## archerykid13

Whys that Jacob haha?


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## N7709K

teh bushing.. they ship raw shafts, have to glue bushings in and they are sloppy tollerances.. so they dont always center perfect


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## archerykid13

I see.


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## N7709K

It sucks having to mix epoxy, and let it set just to build arrows


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## archerykid13

Yeah. Thats just kind of ridiculous.


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## isaacdahl

Especially, since they don't fit snug...that's seems dumb if those bushing are built for fullbores specifically. I can see being upset with that.


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## N7709K

well i may be going back to them.. i'm eating up 27's with hard bales


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

here we go guys. just got my 2nd Elite XLR in Anthracite. i'm waiting on my Doinker Platinum sidebar bracket and spring steel to get here, so she's not fully set up yet, but i like it! few things i will do in the future:
CBE sight
upgrade to Doinker Platinums for both my bows.
Vaportrail strings. 

but, enjoy!!


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## archerykid13

Awesome Dylan!!!!


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## muzzyman1212

That is sweet man!


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## outdoorkid1

Sweet! Nice bows


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

thanks! heres some more pics from the range today.... i need some string color suggestions from you guys for the anthracite bow


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## archerykid13

Id get Black/silver/red with red serving.


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

anyone else have an opinion!?


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## N7709K

you wanna try a torqueless loop bud? seein as your settin up a new rig? I love mine

Um for strings i'd get a flame/flo orange with flo orange halo


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## N7709K

got new strings coming for the ve+, can't wait.


if your wonderin bout strings, go with viscosity. called and talked to brian direct, hooked me up, and answered any questions i had. So far its leaps and bound above the new cs at vaportrail


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## archerykid13

Sounds good Jacob. Colors?


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## N7709K

brian is hooking me up with what his spot shooters run.. not as colorful but last longer


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## archerykid13

Hows colors effect string life?


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## isaacdahl

...or string life effect color?


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## archerykid13

Also, Isaac, are you waiting for a Tru Tension head from Jacob or are you doing an adjustable spike?


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## N7709K

the treated(colored) materials are dyed and treated to reach that color.. some colors deteriorate faster than others and same with materials


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## isaacdahl

archerykid13 said:


> Also, Isaac, are you waiting for a Tru Tension head from Jacob or are you doing an adjustable spike?


Yep, I'm waiting for the tt to arrive so hopefully I can get something work out with that. Unless you want just a spike I can do that too but I figured you rather have the ht/tt head.

Sorry that I forgot to update ya on that bud.


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> the treated(colored) materials are dyed and treated to reach that color.. some colors deteriorate faster than others and same with materials


Huh, that's interesting...like how much difference in time are we talkin about?


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## archerykid13

Id definitely rather have a TT head. No problem bud.


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## N7709K

isaac, you got any plans drawn up for an adjustable spike? 

i'll send the release either way but pics would be nice to see


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## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> isaac, you got any plans drawn up for an adjustable spike?
> 
> i'll send the release either way but pics would be nice to see


 x2. Because if I like the release with a TT head ill buy an adjustable spike a little later.


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## isaacdahl

No problem guys...I can get back to work on the spike too.

I'll get some pics up as soon as possible...it may not be till tonight though as I've got a busy day today.


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## isaacdahl

Also, old acad R14 is having problems putting a radius along an edge that's not parallel to the x axis (even though I changed the position of the UCS) so I'm gonna have to do 1/32" steps from finger to finger to taper it instead doing it at an angle. Dk if that makes any sense, but I'll try to get pics up once I get a rough 3d model.


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## archerykid13

Sounds good.


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## N7709K

isaac just radius every edge... or will it not take that?


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## Michaela MMM

I've never shot feathers. I've only shot with vanes. I bet feathers would be harder to break tho... I keep havin to go back and fix those stupid vanes.


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## Michaela MMM

I just realized how randon my above post was cuz I was readin the wrong page... My bad. Haha


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## isaacdahl

Here's what I got (had) Jake...








I got that far and it wouldn't take it so I'm having to go with just slight "steps" like you see on some releases to get the tapered effect. 

Anyways, I have updated designs so take the pic for what it's worth.


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## N7709K

when they taper.. they taper, not step.. you should be able to set one end narrower and the other wider, it will adjust.

all the outside serviced need to be radiused.. and there needs to be a groove cut out for a moon


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## isaacdahl

Yeah, I just thought of another way to taper it that I'll have to try...you almost _have_ to start with a 2d drawing and extrude it (that's what I did for the one posted above). But maybe I can calculate and revolve it so I get one side one thickness than the other another. With a little clean up, maybe it'll work...

The taper really isn't as easy as it sounds esp. with the program I have which happens to be meant for 2d mainly, not 3d.

And yeah, I just hadn't finished the neck yet, but I know that it's not finished, that's why I said "take it for what it's worth."


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## N7709K

ok.... all the stuff i have worked with is a cadd system, meant for all 3d...


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## isaacdahl

I see...yeah, I have r14 from the '90's and though it is very powerful, it's not as easy to use as the newer revisions. I'll keep working on the taper though; maybe I can come up with something.


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## N7709K

sounds good, you may wanna find what the machine is compatible with before ya dump too much more time into this.. especially if you have to redraw all of it


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## isaacdahl

Yeah, I happened to think thought of that last night, so I'm just gonna go find some shops and the tech college today and talk to them and ask question etc. I was starting to get caught up in the design part of it to much but I have to realize it's going to have to be simple enough for them convert to a g-code without to much trouble.


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## N7709K

well it looks like i may be building up a second ve+.. pricing the works next time i'm at the shop to see what it would be..... i know its less that ordering, but im not sure how much


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## archerykid13

Sometimes i really hate you coach! Hahahaha jk


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## underdog145

Actually, having it step down wouldn't bee too bad. I know that stan has steps on there's instead of a taper. And if you think about it, your individual fingers don't taper as you go from one end of it to the other looking at it form a horizontal plane. I'm not much of a machinist, I'm actually not one at all. Haha. But if it is easier to have it step, and you can make it look nice I would try it.


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## isaacdahl

So it's cheaper to buy limbs, riser, and strings and put one together than it is to buy one new? Of course you wouldn't get warranty, but if one can put the bow together themself, there's no sense in having a warranty really. That's cool...let us know how much you save it you don't mind posting it up.

Called my 2nd cousin's/best friend's dad today who happens to be an engineer and has a nice shop...tomorrow I'm gonna drop the plans off and we're gonna talk prices so cross your fingers guys...hopefully it won't cost to much. If so, I'll check at the tech college and see what they'll do it for.


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## isaacdahl

underdog145 said:


> Actually, having it step down wouldn't bee too bad. I know that stan has steps on there's instead of a taper. And if you think about it, your individual fingers don't taper as you go from one end of it to the other looking at it form a horizontal plane. I'm not much of a machinist, I'm actually not one at all. Haha. But if it is easier to have it step, and you can make it look nice I would try it.


Thanks for the support underdog (can't think of your name right now?)! That's what I was thinking too...it'll most likely be cheaper to machine and a heck of a lot easier to draw up.


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## archerykid13

Thats a very good point Bridger. Im crossing my fingers too Isaac haha!


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## N7709K

Actually there is warranty.. its cheaper for me because of my pricing and only cheaper because i don't have to pay custom shop fee's


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## super*

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> don't think 22oz is needed on one back bar for a z7x, unless you decide to load tons of weight on the front bar, but it's all personal preference


Yea dylan 22oz is needed those damn mathews with that short ATA are so effingg front heavy it rediculous!


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## super*

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> anyone else have an opinion!?


Pink


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## archerykid13

:bump:


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## N7709K

anyone have any 180gr pro point pins they would trade for 200's?


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## underdog145

What's the problem with your 200s?


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## N7709K

little heavy.. spinin a little weak


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## N7709K

Hey Bridger ya got any 3.5 or 4 spirals lying round? For that matter you wanna part with a vantage elite?


----------



## underdog145

I think I have a set of silver 4.0.


----------



## N7709K

underdog145 said:


> I think I have a set of silver 4.0.


How much there boss? 

Ok nother question, anyone got tap or ot2? If so could ya find me the static spine of 32" 2712's with 300gr tips microlites and 3" vanes and 2315's 200gr tips microlites and 3" vanes?


----------



## isaacdahl

Here's a rough drawing...it might not be exact per your description, but I got kinda lost in all the widths and thicknesses, lol. But here's what I got; let me know what to change and all. I don't yet have any of the neck drawn up because I'm working on something different for that (think adjustable)...anyways, more details to come regarding that.








Let me know if the finger placement drops to much or not...I tried to make it relatively straight but I thought I remembered you sayin something about wanting just a _slight_ drop and one time? Anyways, the third finger just drops 1/8" relative to the center points of the 1st and 2nd fingers which are inline with each other. But that can be changed to perfectly straight if you'd like.


----------



## N7709K

i'd take out the curl on the end of the ring finger.. i'd ditch the loop too, but..


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, I'll get those things fixed.


----------



## archerykid13

Jacob has free reign Isaac. If its good enough for Jacob its good enough for me.


----------



## isaacdahl

archerykid13 said:


> Jacob has free reign Isaac. If its good enough for Jacob its good enough for me.


Sounds good.


----------



## disischad

I shot my first 5-spot today to qualify for our indoor league. I shot a 248. It was fun! I'm looking forward to our league starting up in January.


----------



## archerykid13

Good job man!!


----------



## N7709K

anyone one of yall got a bow force mapper that gathers dust?


----------



## isaacdahl

How about this?


----------



## N7709K

Eh... I'm not sure.. I'd go straight back, without the scallops, move the hook mount towards the left edge(bottom of the release). What's the thickness on te release at the fingers? Is it possible to run the last finger groove a bit longer bit not on a curve just straight out from the end of the curve


----------



## isaacdahl

No problem, those should be pretty easy adjustments to make. The thickness of all the fingers in .300"

One question...







Is this what ya want moved?..in that general direction? Sorry, I'm just not to good at reading between the lines, lol.


----------



## N7709K

say the loop was still there.. just move it down the loop towards the bottom.. not in..


----------



## isaacdahl

Update...








I didn't shorten the neck yet, because I don't want to make it to short. Let me know if you still want it shortened some.

I also threw in a rough drawing of the head...


----------



## isaacdahl

ttt


----------



## N7709K

not shorten the neck, in anything lengthen it....

maybe this will get the idea across better.. put the loop back in. if its on a standard grid 90deg is straight up, 0deg is on the right(x-axis). currently the hook is at roughly 90deg.. move the peg to 110-120deg(quad iv) but at the same radius as it is now


----------



## isaacdahl

Ahh, I think I know what you mean now..sorry about my confusion


----------



## isaacdahl

Something like that? I lengthened the neck 1/8" also.


----------



## N7709K

Sittin at the airport bout ready to head up to Ak.. Makin torqueless loops, lol

Anybody want one?


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> Sittin at the airport bout ready to head up to Ak.. Makin torqueless loops, lol
> 
> Anybody want one?


 Ill take one.


----------



## archerykid13

Ive never learned how to make them haha.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, I'll take anything free!


----------



## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> Yeah, I'll take anything free!


 x2! Haha


----------



## isaacdahl

I don't get how they have any advantage over a regular d loop...I mean I've seen grivs tests and all but why does it have less torque?


----------



## isaacdahl

Wait...never mind. I was thinking of the wrong thing...I was thinkin of those silly knotless ones people make.


----------



## isaacdahl

Ya got me real interested hear Jake...how do make the dumb things? I can't find it anywhere?


----------



## archerykid13

If im thinking of the right ones looks up "how to tie catfish loops".


----------



## isaacdahl

Nope, those are the silly knotless one I was referring too, lol. I think what Jake is talking about are the ones grivs does. Here's a link that talks about both...if you read through it grivs tells a little about his.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1235793&page=1


----------



## archerykid13

This is the one im talking about Isaac.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1577641

Go to page 2 and theres a video of GRIV showing you how to tie them.


----------



## N7709K

It's torqueless cause it's single point attatchment and not two. So as you twist the release to fit your face, the loop twists. Causing groups to open. With a torqueless they are tighterC much tighter... But they do take some getting use to


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> It's torqueless cause it's single point attatchment and not two. So as you twist the release to fit your face, the loop twists. Causing groups to open. With a torqueless they are tighterC much tighter... But they do take some getting use to


 I might have to try one or you could send your best AT buddy one?? Haha jk. I might go buy some string and make some.


----------



## isaacdahl

archerykid13 said:


> This is the one im talking about Isaac.
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1577641
> 
> Go to page 2 and theres a video of GRIV showing you how to tie them.


Yeah, that's the one I was thinkin about too. Thanks for finding that vid for me too...now I just gotta buy myself some 8125 or maybe astroflite and make some myself.

What string material do you use Jake and how much do they stretch?

Btw, what do you think of the new designs?


----------



## archerykid13

Jake uses 8125 and halo.


----------



## isaacdahl

Nice...I think I'll just go up to a shop and see if they'll sell me a spool cheap that doesn't have enough for a whole string; don't really wanna have pay $30 just for some loops that'll probably last the whole life of the string itself.


----------



## isaacdahl

isaacdahl said:


> View attachment 1235522
> 
> 
> Something like that? I lengthened the neck 1/8" also.


ttt for the new design


----------



## underdog145

You wanna make me some Jake? I've been wanting to try some. You can just hand em off to me in Vegas instead of makin ya waste money on sending me some.


----------



## N7709K

Bridge, I'll just send ya some, it's only 45cents or somethin


----------



## underdog145

Naa. Don't worry bout it. I probably wouldn't use em till after Vegas anywho. Haha.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

I shot bt again today I gave up on it earlier this year but I wanted to give it a try when I went to the range today. At first I was shooting at 5 yards drilling x's so I went back to 10yards and couldn't hit 1 x I kepthitting high and tothe right. So I went to 7 yards and would almost every time hit a x. The only reason I gave up on it before was because I hit myself in the face with my hand so I was scared to draw it back. But I'm glad that I decided to give it a try again hopefully I will be able to shoot 300 45x games Or something like that soon. If I get to the point where I start shooting good with it I might buy another bt release but not yet.


----------



## N7709K

Bugs, do you want some advise on bt?


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

Kinda...does it make sense how I would move 5 yards back and instead of hitting the x it would hit high right in the black? Am I just shooting it wrong or torqueing the bow somehow? Or does it just take a lot of practice and when I'm moving back I do something differently that make it shoot high and to the right.


----------



## N7709K

ok, i'll give a run down of how to learn/start the process of learning a hinge.

first you want to begin with shooting the release on a string until you have the release down. this can take a couple weeks to a couple months and should be continued through out the entire process. 

after you learn the release and have it down, you transition to the bow, this is done at feet not yards from the target. no sight and no face, just blank baling until you have the release and the bow together down. you want the shots to be fluid and strong but not overpowering and you don't want to be snapping at the release. this should take bout two weeks, to get it proper. if you are relearning backtension it can be condensed into a week.

once that it done you put the sight on and shoot with the sight on for a couple days to a week until you can focus on the pin and the release happens. then at 3yds hang a face and shoot until you are averaging perfect scores... then back to 5yds and the same thing sighting in for each distance as you go. after 5yds is mastered, then 7yds, then 10yds and so on back to 20yds 2-3yds at a time. this take a while but is vital to getting the release mastered and not introducing target panic along the way.

with bt you want the release to be a complete surprise, in the sense that you are relaxed when the shot breaks and don't anticipate when the release will fire. once you have shot a hinge a while you will get a feel for when the release may break but not the exact moment. 

to your questions, when you step back to 10yds and hit high and right i'm guessing the following are happening. your dl is a bit long and you are bending the string around your face. the high will be caused by creeping on the shot or snapping at the release when the pin is over the x(pass shooting). its a common problem and is easilly fixed by the above method.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

Ahhh it just takes so long lol. But thanks for posting this.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

1 more thing should I take the click off? I have it so that it clicks when I'm at full draw.


----------



## archerykid13

Take it off. Thats one of the worst things you can use when learning BT IMO.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

Alright thanks


----------



## archerykid13

Anytime.


----------



## N7709K

Leave the click... Set it so as you come to anchor it clicks


----------



## isaacdahl

Yep, I agree with what Jake's post. I was like you when I first started bt and almost gave up but once I got myself straightened out, I was back on track. I know it's hard to make yourself follow all the steps but it's so important it can't be stressed enough...it needs to be slow transition and ingrained in muslce memory before you start shooting with sights or at a face. It's seems like a long time but is worth it.


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> Leave the click... Set it so as you come to anchor it clicks


 I didn't think about that but people who have it click before shot tend to try to control the shot IMO.


----------



## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> Yep, I agree with what Jake's post. I was like you when I first started bt and almost gave up but once I got myself straightened out, I was back on track. I know it's hard to make yourself follow all the steps but it's so important it can't be stressed enough...it needs to be slow transition and ingrained in muslce memory before you start shooting with sights or at a face. It's seems like a long time but is worth it.


 Which Jake? Haha


----------



## isaacdahl

Click is dependent on what the shooter prefers I guess...I agree with ak13 in the fact that it's better to learn without a click than with; now maybe if they made clicks with more travel or "colder" they'd be a good thing, but as a beginner you want it set cold so you have to work on using your back muscles. With a click, it's set relatively hot and doesn't take much to go off...not a good thing for a beginner if you ask me, jmo though.


----------



## N7709K

You have to have the click set correctly, and be consistent with the click.. Or it's gonna screw ya


----------



## isaacdahl

archerykid13 said:


> Which Jake? Haha


Sorry lol, I was refering to n77 Jake's longish post about learning bt.


----------



## N7709K

Oh yeah, if ya want y'all can just call me Hemstock


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> You have to have the click set correctly, and be consistent with the click.. Or it's gonna screw ya


x2.


----------



## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> Sorry lol, I was refering to n77 Jake's longish post about learning bt.


 Oh ok haha.


----------



## isaacdahl

Dk if you saw this the first time but here it is again...I understand if you were just busy or whatever.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

Ok so I changed it so that the click was off then I came back and "hemstock" Said to leave it so I just got done putting it back or at least close I can fine tune it later but the tru tension Is pretty hard to adjust.


----------



## archerykid13

Sounds good.


----------



## N7709K

here's why you leave the click and how to set it correctly.

when you leave the click you get several things, one you don't begin the squeeze portion of the shooting sequence as soon as you come get the release to your face. and second while leaning you have safety to tell if you did something wrong in the shot sequence.

so when you set up the click you want to make sure that you don't have the click too soon or too late. too late and you will be pulling through the shot for a good while before the click takes place. this will cause tp very fast, reason being that when the click happens you are already into the 6-7seond portion of the shot; total sequence should be under 10sec. well now you have 3 sec to execute a perfect shot. its not going to happen most of the time.

if you have a click set too early as soon as you anchor and take your thumb off teh peg, beg bamb it goes off and will miss. this will cause a delaid shot sequence too, but it is bad to burry into the peg until you want the shot to happen.

the click should be set so that when you draw the bow, set and come to anchor the release clicks. then you can begin your shot sequence and focus on the x. if you have the release set too heavy you will get tp, too light you will also got it.

now to set a tru tension. when you adjust teh halfmoon you barely loosten the set scrw on teh moon so that it just slides. at a tiny tiny bit. so draw and see where it clicks. if its too fast, adjust it colder, if it clicks later then set it hotter. its a little picky but its the same as scotts.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

Thanks and that's what I started doing after a while just barely loosening the screw.


----------



## N7709K

I shoot truball hinges and all but my ht are with the half moons. It's a tedious process to get them set just right cause it only takes a tiny bit of movement.


----------



## N7709K

Isaac looks good... Just wondering, how thick is the end of the neck?

Bridger, when you learned did you learn with a click?


----------



## N7709K

So i haven't said this on here, ever i don't think... but anyway i'll put up the "story" of me learning backtension.

so it started out with my old pro elite(origional cam.5+ and xt3000's) and the ht that i got my first year in vegas. so i had target panic bad, real back before i ever picked up a bt release, it was really bad.. but only when shooting indoor spots. outdoors setup for hutning and indoor even with the hunting setup i shot pretty good. 

so when i got the pro elite i got a sureloc and a viper scope with a 4x. big mistake, jumped straight into shooting 20yds with a lens not setup correctly so it was really blurry. i fought the lens for a while, then i picked up a thumb release without an independent trigger, big mistake. the trigger on the thumb release only compounded the tp faster. 

so jumping forward, i went to vegas and fought tp the entire shoot. i finished very very poorly, like 20th or 21st flight. as soon as i got back i decided i wanted to fix the issue, really fix the issue because i knew i could shoot better. at the time i had no outside help, no coach, and no advise on how to learn bt. 

i started out with a hand me down tru tension 4 that i got from kim before i moved to minnesota. i setup a target in the basement at 6ft. no sight, just a stabilizer for feel and i set to learning the release. i spent 3 weeks, maybe a month of a couple hours a day havin a release trip too soon and getting hit in the face. it was terrible, but i deided i needed to tough it out because one day it would get better and i would be able to shoot to my potential. well after those weeks of hell i had the release down to the point where i could draw and not hitmyself in the face. once i got past this barrier it became easier.

once i could draw and execute a shot i went to my ht. i set it with a click and i had it set not to hot not too cold. i would shoot 100-200 shots a night, every day for weeks. honestly i probably put in close to 10k shots learnign how to shoot a hinge. well after i got it down at 6ft, i went back to 20yds right away, tp came back and i blamed the bow. so i traded my pro elite for an alphamax. now my scores jumped 50+ pts on a blue face and 70pts on vegas, just changin bows. well then i worked the bt into that bow and it clicked, but i developed the bad habit of snapping at the release as soon as it would click bcause i have the click set way too late. it shoot fine, but it wasn't proper at all. 

after my second time in vegas i shoot much better, 292 or better every day in vegas shooting a loaner bow from the shop(maxxis 35). well i had the backtension down better butnot perfect. when i got home i took the click out and decided to get it down proper. well it finally started coming together when i took the click out. my scores started increading until i got to the level at which i am at now. not i don't have it prefect, i'm still getting it down perfect.

so know yall know why i preach learnign bt correctly so you don't have to go through what i did


----------



## isaacdahl

It's ~.57" at the widest part and .3" at the thinnest part where the fingers meet.


N7709K said:


> Isaac looks good... Just wondering, how thick is the end of the neck?


Cool story Jake...so it hasn't been till the last year or so that you've really started to get it down eh? I thought you'd been a pro your hole life lol!

Yeah, it's not been till this summer that I really learned how to shoot a hinge properly and I'm still kinda rough at it but improving.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Ive been blank blaleing and shooting on a string for a week or so now and ive decided i think i wanna take the click off. Would that be a bad move? I have watched grivs videos but I just think I like it better without the click.


----------



## isaacdahl

Go for it. Can't hurt to try it yourself and see how it works for ya...I personally don't shoot a click but some do so it's all personal preference I suppose.


----------



## underdog145

If you don't like it, take it off. There's a reason it was designed to go both ways. If you end up not liking it without it you can always put it back. There's nothing wrong with trying new things. You never know if something is going to work or not until you try it and give it a chance.


----------



## muzzyman1212

I think ill try it I just wanna learn bt right the first time.


----------



## N7709K

Well do you have the click set so it goes right as you come to anchor? The biggest thing the click does in tr first couple weeks is build consistency because you have an audible reinforcement to getting a shot sequence down. 

If you take the click put you may have a tough time getting the right hot/cold setting...

Pm or text me if ya want(2187600735)


----------



## N7709K

i have fought and still do fight tp to an extent. archery is 95% mental, its masterign that part that matters


----------



## underdog145

That's true Jake, but a lot of clicks are way too duty to be able to do that. Unless your shooting a Scott or carter 2 moons. Scotts have a huge click and you can adjust the carter.


----------



## muzzyman1212

underdog145 said:


> That's true Jake, but a lot of clicks are way too duty to be able to do that. Unless your shooting a Scott or carter 2 moons. Scotts have a huge click and you can adjust the carter.


I have a scott blackhole. And I draw anchor rotate click aim and squeeze. Thats the sequence right now.


----------



## N7709K

set the click so its draw anchor click squeeze


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah i was thinkin the click might be late.


----------



## isaacdahl

Last night for kicks I turned my half moon around to the click side which is coincidentally like a .004-.006" and I couldn't even get the dumb thing to set in the click...this's the first time I've even used the click side on this moon. The ones I've used before always had something longer like a minimum of .012".

Ahh, I don't really care for the click anywho...


----------



## N7709K

Isaac what release?

I've shot with and without a click on a few releases.... Some are better with but most are better without


----------



## underdog145

A lot of times, ill get so engrossed in the shot that I either won't notice the click or it'll scare the crap outta me.


----------



## N7709K

So ya just focus on the x and pull through Bridger?


----------



## isaacdahl

It was my 4 finger Zenith


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

N7709K said:


> to your questions, when you step back to 10yds and hit high and right i'm guessing the following are happening. your dl is a bit long and you are bending the string around your face. the high will be caused by creeping on the shot or snapping at the release when the pin is over the x(pass shooting). its a common problem and is easilly fixed by the above method.


 I think my dl is maybe a 1/2 in long I got a camera for Christmas so I set it up on video and drew back. My nock point was probably a half inch or so back from the corner of my mouth.


----------



## N7709K

do you have any pics?


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

for some reason it isnt letting me upload photos from my camera. I have uploaded pics before and it would let me upload pics from another camera but not from mine...so maybe tommorrow I will go get my trail camera and have it take my picture lol. or would it work if I lowered the mp or something?


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

ok here we go I lowered the mega pixels from 14 to 6.


----------



## N7709K

dl is an inch long, or so... your leaning back at the waist and the string is back on your face. now you can do a couple things. since the zxt doesn' go super low in dl you can go down half inch, and then play with dl through the strings, or you can stand straight and push the bow out.

pushing the bow out will bring the shoudlers more inline and will create a much more stable platform.


----------



## archerykid13

It looks like your leaning back a lot. I think your DL is still too long.


----------



## muzzyman1212

I played with my release quite a bit today. I asjusted it hotter and its sweet. I blackbaled with sights today for about 150 shots and its feelin good. I think by the end of the week I could be shootin at spots.


----------



## N7709K

although you feel ready to be able to step back to shooting spots, the process is best done at a gradual pace to that you learn the release by muscle memory.

now by weeks end, feel free to shoto at 5-7yds at a face and shoot that all you want.


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> although you feel ready to be able to step back to shooting spots, the process is best done at a gradual pace to that you learn the release by muscle memory.
> 
> now by weeks end, feel free to shoto at 5-7yds at a face and shoot that all you want.


Thanks well ive been shooting blank bale for a week now so shouldnt it be about time to shoot at spots by the weekend? I am feeling the muscle memory already I know I wanna get it down a little better before I go to shooting spots.


----------



## archerykid13

I wouldn't shoot a full spots game. Id use the 10 yd method and work your way up.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

I don't Think I'm gonna be shooting spots for at least 5 more days and I took some more pics of me doing what you suggested. I don't feel the string on my face anymore and it's probably a 1/4 to half in shorter on my face I'll post them in a little while and if they look good the. When I'm blank baleing tomorrow I'll do it doing this.


----------



## archerykid13

So whats everybodies indoor setup for this year?


----------



## muzzyman1212

There is no dang protelites or ultraelites with 27.5 spiral xs ever in the classifieds! I am thinkin about gettin a target bow.


----------



## muzzyman1212

archerykid13 said:


> So whats everybodies indoor setup for this year?


Im just gonna shoot bhfs this year with my invasion or if I get a new bow and my hogg it, ultra rest, and dish, and fatboys.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

first one is before next 2 are after.


----------



## archerykid13

Nice. The only specifics I know about my setup are my sight/scope and my rest. I dont have a target as of now.


----------



## archerykid13

That looks much better.


----------



## N7709K

they will be there, don't worry, they always start to trickle in. 

as for shooting for a week already if you feel it is coming togethernicely then you can start to incorporate the face and scoring into it. throughout the entre procell start and end each session with 5 blank bale shots.

so as far as rigs go for this indoor season, i'm using the same basic setup as last year, vantage elite plus. i'm changing some things up tho, new stabilizers, new arrows, new scope setup. i'm really excited to see how this season goes.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Those new bstingers premier plus black look sweet huh.


----------



## N7709K

so for form. it looks better but i need a couple things. first i need a pic that shows your entire body fromt eh feet up , second i need that pic and subsequent ones to be taken aiming at a target at shoulder height.

short ata bows make fit rather difficult.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

well, my new bow has to be re set up, because come to find out the DL was a half inch too long, so it needs to be twisted up, no wonder why i can't hit x's with it, lol


----------



## N7709K

ill let ya know when they show up


----------



## archerykid13

You don't have them yet Jacob?


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> ill let ya know when they show up


 Thats sweet its says theyre the stiffest on the market so youll have to let us know.


----------



## N7709K

Well they all claim stiffest right?

Just found out about them today, so we'll see when they will show up. Got some friends with a set and they love them


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

ok that was as far down to my feet as i could get.


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Well they all claim stiffest right?
> 
> Just found out about them today, so we'll see when they will show up. Got some friends with a set and they love them


True I was lookin at berines cause his are cheaper and suppoasbly really stiff.


----------



## archerykid13

muzzyman1212 said:


> True I was lookin at berines cause his are cheaper and suppoasbly really stiff.


 Control Freak stabs are good. They are pretty stiff.


----------



## N7709K

I would get bstinger comps or a used set... But that's me.


Now i do know that the premiers/pluses are pretty dang stiff. So I'm not worried it's just a step up.

How soon you looking at a set?


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Bugs Bunnyy said:


> ok that was as far down to my feet as i could get.


it looks to me your back foot is behind your front, your back foot should be slightly more forward than your back, like this:


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> I would get bstinger comps or a used set... But that's me.
> 
> 
> Now i do know that the premiers/pluses are pretty dang stiff. So I'm not worried it's just a step up.
> 
> How soon you looking at a set?


Prolly around spring.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

It feels better with my back foot behind my front it's just the way I have always done it. Tomorrow I will try it with all these new factors


----------



## muzzyman1212

Do you really think bstingers are better that much better? What about doinker fattys.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Bugs Bunnyy said:


> It feels better with my back foot behind my front it's just the way I have always done it. Tomorrow I will try it with all these new factors


that is a hinge style release correct? but the reason your back foot should be in front of your front foot is because it makes everything more square, it executes proper back tension. if i were you, i would learn to shoot with your back foot in front, and get used to it. but that's me, i learned to, now it's natural, it will most likely steady-up your sight picture too.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

Yeah I'll give it a try tomorrow


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

muzzyman1212 said:


> Do you really think bstingers are better that much better? What about doinker fattys.


i absolutely love my fatty's... not much of a difference between stingers and doinkers, doinkers are just as stiff, especially the Platinums. it's all personal preference... i know people who shoot fatty's well, and know people who shot fattys well, and would still be shooting them if they didn't have the money to upgrade to the Platinums


----------



## archerykid13

Its pretty much personal preference. As with most stuff with archery.


----------



## muzzyman1212

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> i absolutely love my fatty's... not much of a difference between stingers and doinkers, doinkers are just as stiff, especially the Platinums. it's all personal preference... i know people who shoot fatty's well, and know people who shot fattys well, and would still be shooting them if they didn't have the money to upgrade to the Platinums


Yeah platinums are just too expensive for me right now. Right now im debatings on geting a 35-37"ata bow for huntin, spots, and 3d. Or keeping my invasion for huntin and bhfs and buying a pure target bow. I have the funds to sell mine and get a new bow and target setup. But I cant buy a bow and setup right now without selling my bow. I could just buy a bow.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

then go with fattys, not a problem with them, by any means, don't let people fool ya. plus, wayyy cheaper than b-stingers.


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## muzzyman1212

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> then go with fattys, not a problem with them, by any means, don't let people fool ya. plus, wayyy cheaper than b-stingers.


Yeah I like my dish if when I get a target setup I will probably get fattys.


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

muzzyman1212 said:


> Yeah I like my dish if when I get a target setup I will probably get fattys.


Doinker all the way my friend :wink:


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## N7709K

first for the form. having the feet set like you do causes several things. first it adds a twist to your torso that doesn't aid in stability. next you preload your shoulders and cause a harder time shooting a hinge correctly. it also causes a bit of instability.

for teh stabilizers, here are the big things. first you want teh stiffest and lightest bars you can afford, stiffer the better. after that you need to look into teh weights. the amount of weight that you use is dependant on several variables, but the more weight to a point the mroe stable the bow will be. 

prices have come down alot in stabilizers, i spend more on my premier main than my plus main, yeah go figure. if you can only afford x, then that is all you can afford. bstinger makes a compriable set to the fatty's (competitior) bars. they work and work very well. used sets of premiers or xl's also work very well. 

i made mistake of buying a top shelf set, never going back to less becuase of the feeling that i get with them. 

what are you looking at for a set? 30" and a 12" back?


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## muzzyman1212

Yeah 30" main 12" back


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## N7709K

muzzy, i dropped ya a pm about stabilizers


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## N7709K

Dylan what's a fatty main? 140$ 120$? I don't remember. The premiers and plusses are over 200$ for a main but comps are 140$ish from las maybe a little less(sorry haven't checked for a while)


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> Dylan what's a fatty main? 140$ 120$? I don't remember. The premiers and plusses are over 200$ for a main but comps are 140$ish from las maybe a little less(sorry haven't checked for a while)


depending where you buy them, ranges from $120 to $140


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## Sighting In

My book says the Fatty runs about 160, but I'm not sure if that's the updated price. 

As far as Doinker vs Stinger, honestly, I don't really feel a difference in pin float between the two. I borrowed a full Stinger set from my buddy this summer, and actually had to shoot them at SoCal. They shot awesome. Pin sat super still, and I think they did make my bow a tad more forgiving. However, they buzzed and vibrated like the bee-hive they're named after. Not that it really matters in the long run, but it was kind of annoying. Also, my bottom limb bolt started backing out with the Stingers on there. I don't know if that's just a problem with the bow, or because of the vibration. 

I have since given the set back to the owner, and I now am the proud owner of a full Platinum setup. To me, they hold exactly the same as the stingers. Same forgiveness, same pin float- both rock solid and good. But with the Doinkers, the rubber in it makes them super quiet and vib free. Again, it REALLY doesn't matter on paper, but I like the feeling better, and that's worth a lot to me. Also, the Donikers had some extra touches that the Stingers don't have, like the hole in the bar so you can tighten or loosen them more easily. Just little things like that which to me made a big difference in comfort. 

My point is, Stingers are not the only rod out there that are stiff and shoot well. Like I said, I think my scores are exactly the same for both bars, but I like the feel of the Doinkers better personally. I think it's just something you have to try both of, then look at your budget and decide from there.


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## N7709K

I know what you mean about the vibe adam, I put some the Limbsavers on mine and it helped alot.

To go with what Adam said about the bars, basically all te top level stabilizers are the same stiffness. They will all pretty much shoot the exact same and hold the exact same. Doinker has a diff weight system than the stingers, not that it really means much since they both take a good deal of weight on the bars. Bstingers are pretty plain, they aren't fancy just proven. Now they do look sharp especially the black ones, don't get me wrong but if you are going solely off looks then the doinks will probably be more aesthetically pleasing. 

The price of the stabilizers, well that's the tough part. You can't really put a price o your game. The more you put in the more you want out and the more that you can justify putting into it. So if you feel stabilizers will really improve your game then get the best set you can afford. If you want a set that will improve Your hold so you can improve your shot sequence, then don't spend all that much(by that I mean don't spend more than 125-150$ for a main and 150$ish for a back bar weights).

Adam you running about 6-7oz in the main and 12-14 on the back?


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## Sighting In

N7709K said:


> Adam you running about 6-7oz in the main and 12-14 on the back?


30" 4 oz front, 12" 14 oz back before I took them off to set up for hunting (still need to get you that pic. Gana finish tuning the arrows tonight). I also pointed the back rod down as far as the riser got in the way. lol Maybe after the hunt I'll play with putting it in the bottom hole of the riser. Got any ideas on how to get it a solid hold? 

Back to topic. lol I didn't mean to suggest that Stingers are no good. They really are a great stab. I think that goes without saying, considering their track record on people's bows like Willett, Anschutz, Van Natta, Brady, and loads others. All I was getting at was that the Doinkers have some things the Stingers don't that add to comfort- it's not needed, but I like it on my bow. The only thing to do is find somebody to let you throw on a set, and see what you like.


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## isaacdahl

You guys have any idea what the wall thickness is on your platinums or premiers? I now quality of carbon makes a difference and all but what's the id and od and/or wall thickness?


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## N7709K

Wall thickness or od? Od of a plus is .75" I'm pretty sure, haven't cut one open to check wall...


Adam, I know what your sayin. Had the exact same thing. I've done the lower mount and it's nice, but Aaron helped me. Hit him up bout it


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## muzzyman1212

Hey guys I got a dozen fatboys for christmas and im still deciding how i want to fletch them. Im ordered some blazer x2s for 3d but should I fletch some feathers on half doezen of them during spot season. I know feathers will create more drag and be a tad more accurate but would I really be able to tell a difference in x2s and a 4-5" feather.


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## N7709K

Reg blazers or 2" shields for indoor


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## muzzyman1212

Ok I have some regular blazers I also have some 5" sheild cut feathers but would it be worth it.


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## N7709K

just run the blazers fletched with some helical. they seem to work a little better for indoors on lighter arrows


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## muzzyman1212

That makes sense.


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## N7709K

For indoor if you aren't shooting stiff or heavy arrows you don't really need feathers


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Wall thickness or od? Od of a plus is .75" I'm pretty sure, haven't cut one open to check wall...


Haha, yeah I thought it was worth a try.


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## StraightShotSam

Hey guys, Im buying my new setup now. Really want it to be a 3d/hunting machine. I want input on what would be good as far as accesories. So far I have in mind an Elite Pure, 28.5" at around 65#, and a b stinger 12" pro with a larger weight, and just for a cheap ass rest Ill go with a NAP apache. As far as my sight goes, I just bought an axcel armortech, and If I like it, I will probably sell it and get and armortech pro. Just wondering what you guys are thinking of that as a set up.


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## isaacdahl

Sounds good to me. You'll *love* axcel sights if you haven't tried one yet and I've heard great things about the apache rest...I personally would go with something different if it were strictly target, but since you plan to hunt with it, it should work well in that regards.


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## muzzyman1212

I would check out the 12" doinker dish!


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## archerykid13

Doinkers are crap! Haha jkjk. The DISH is an AWESOME 3D stab.


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## muzzyman1212

archerykid13 said:


> Doinkers are crap! Haha jkjk. The DISH is an AWESOME 3D stab.


Yeah theyre junk.


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## N7709K

Well for sight I'd just get the pro upgrade, lot cheaper than a new sight.

For rest I get a very good one since it's not just a one shot deal. 

As far as stabs go I'd get a 12" pro hunter 8oz and a 10" 12oz and a strong arm.. Won't get any more stable than that


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## StraightShotSam

Yeah already think I made the oopsie not getting the pro, oh well I'll see if I like it I'll buy the pro conversion kit or just sell it and stick in 40$ to buy a pro


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## N7709K

I have a pro and it's sweet, Had a reg an it just didn't fit the peep very well, now it does and it's much easier to shoot well way out there at 70-80yds.


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

i just set a new personal record... 300 57x's


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## N7709K

good shooting


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## underdog145

I have absolutely no regrets going from doinker to b-stinger. I've shot my best scores with them and they make my bow that much more forgiving. Plus, if you look at the specs of the premier plus 30 in and a platinum 30 in, the doinker almost weighs twice as much for the same stiffness. Also, I think I would have trouble stacking 27 ounces on the doinker bar because of how their weight system is and how they attach to the bar. Also, I have never had a problem with vibration in mine. Although, I will admit that having a ten pound bow doesn't hurt when it comes to vibration dampening. Haha.


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## N7709K

27oz on a back bar? Lol wow bridge, no wonder they are having to inventory weights


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## Sighting In

Bridger, I remember talking about stabs at World Trials this summer. What bars did you come from shooting? Did you shoot the Platinums or something else? 

I know you can take out the main rubber bit and screw the weights all the way down against the aluminum housing. There's still rubber inside so it will still take out some vib, but the weight won't move hardly at all (not that the new Doinker lets them move much anyway). I bet if you played with that you could get a ton of weight on it.


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## N7709K

Adam, how thick is one of the doinker weights? they still the little fat ones? or are they same as on the fatties?


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## N7709K

I got a question for everyone, when you look into stabs what are you going for? proformance? name? dampening?


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> Adam, how thick is one of the doinker weights? they still the little fat ones? or are they same as on the fatties?


theyre the same one's i have, pretty comparable to the stinger stack weights


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## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> I got a question for everyone, when you look into stabs what are you going for? proformance? name? dampening?


 Performance. If im shooting paper the vibration doesn't matter.


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> I got a question for everyone, when you look into stabs what are you going for? proformance? name? dampening?


dampening, preformance.... two biggest things.


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## N7709K

ok, sorry but i cant hold it in any longer... the new las format sucks, really sucks. pricing each component by it self really? shafts are bad enough, who is gonna buy just a singe arrow? or 3? especially when you run non stock factory components that are only available by the doz?

I can see where some peope may find it nice... guess its a good thing i order straight ut of the dealer catalog that isn't pried per indidual item....

ok rant over


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## isaacdahl

I think the new LAS format's nice...but yeah, I hate it when shops price arrows per shaft-it's annoying.


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## Sighting In

Platinums come with the 421 weights. They are about 1" across (not exactly, but close I think). They're much flatter and thinner than the ones that Doinker used to use. I think the Fatty comes with a slightly different weight system that isn't in 1 oz increments, but you can still use the 421.


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## underdog145

I came from usin carries. And I did try just takin out the rubber but I could never get the weights tight enough. The bolt kept on spinning once I got them down pretty tight.


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## N7709K

Built a jig for torqueless loops today, a real one.. Gonna start cranking em out now


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## isaacdahl

Why don't they make weights out of brass or a denser material than ss? You'd have to be careful not to strip the threads, but they'd be smaller, therefore, less surface area.


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## isaacdahl

Nice Jake...you gonna send me one, haha?


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## Bugs Bunnyy

Alright with my new form when i come to full draw I have to yield pressure on my index finger until it clicks and then start using bt but I think I have the release as hot as it will go with out having the moon go underneath the click. It is working out ok I just start yielding pressure right when I come to full draw and until it clicks but does anyone have any tips to make it click faster?


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## N7709K

Cause brass is like 4times more expensive... Brass boat props are $$$$ while ss are only $$$


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## N7709K

move the moon until it clicks right as you come to anchor. all shooting a hinge comes down to is a pressure transfer from index to pinky. as you pull your sholder blades together your hand rotates and the pressure shifts. if you pull into the thumbpeg and hold into the peg you slow the process of the release, and at times can even stop the firing.


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## Bugs Bunnyy

I have it about as hot as it can go I will keep playing with it but if I can't get it to go hotter should I just try to not draw with the release angled so much?


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## outdoorkid1

Bugs Bunnyy said:


> Alright with my new form when i come to full draw I have to yield pressure on my index finger until it clicks and then start using bt but I think I have the release as hot as it will go with out having the moon go underneath the click. It is working out ok I just start yielding pressure right when I come to full draw and until it clicks but does anyone have any tips to make it click faster?


If you have it set so it is as hot as it will go and you have to move it alot to get it to click then its not set as hot as it will go. I think you have it set the opposite of hot and have it set so that It takes alot to set it off, Thats what it sounds like your describing anyway.


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## Bugs Bunnyy

heres a pic of it.


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## N7709K

so you pull, rotate, click, bang?

can i get a pic from teh side?


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## Bugs Bunnyy

yeah I anchor, rotate click, shoot.


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## N7709K

it looks like you can go hotter with the moon.. can't tell from the pics how the moon is rotated(more or less how much more it can go)


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## Bugs Bunnyy

I started playing with the moon again and I got it to go a little hotter I just couldnt before for some reason...now it clicks when I come to full draw sorry to kind of waste your time just I couldnt get it to go hotter and I was thinking maybe I was doing somthing wrong.


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## muzzyman1212

I took the click off my release im gonna play with it like that today.


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## N7709K

Aaron, Adam, Bridger, any of you guys have a set of 84def xt2000's or know someone with a set that they wanna sell? black preferabbly?

if your wondering why, i refuse to shoot the ugly carbon fiber hoyt limbs on a ve+. They are really tacky and sure it ain't about looks but for once i care. Don't really relish camo limbs, but if i go through hoyt for a new one built and not pieced out its gonna run max1.

called and talked to the CS department about it today, very nice and upfront about it. no longer can you get flat black limbs, only the carbon fiber black, camo, or target series with the carbon fiber weave under teh gloss.


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## N7709K

Everyone got plans for tonight?

I'm gonna watch the ball drop from the airport, it's fun and all but I'd rather be with friends


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## archerykid13

Girlfriend and family.


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## muzzyman1212

My gf is in vegas so I might hang out with a couple of friends.


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## isaacdahl

Just getting together with some friends here soon.


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## isaacdahl

Ok, I can't decide whether being over spined is necessarily a bad thing or not...what do you guys think? Reason I ask, my lightspeeds are way overspined for my setup but they tune fine and shoot good. I'd rather have a 400 or so, but since I can't get rid of the dumb things (and since they shoot alright) I'm just gonna keep em. I'm also thinking that most guys fat 3d arrows are going to be overspined since no one's going to put a 200+ grain tip in a .250 spine arrow if they're shooting 3d...spots, yeah probably, but not 3d where speed is somewhat important.


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## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Ok, I can't decide whether being over spined is necessarily a bad thing or not...what do you guys think? Reason I ask, my lightspeeds are way overspined for my setup but they tune fine and shoot good. I'd rather have a 400 or so, but since I can't get rid of the dumb things (and since they shoot alright) I'm just gonna keep em. I'm also thinking that most guys fat 3d arrows are going to be overspined since no one's going to put a 200+ grain tip in a .250 spine arrow if they're shooting 3d...spots, yeah probably, but not 3d where speed is somewhat important.


Ive always heard its better to be overspined than underspined.


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## N7709K

Depends on lots, some bows tune stiff some weak.

A stiffer spine will give better shots but worse flyers


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Depends on lots, some bows tune stiff some weak.
> 
> A stiffer spine will give better shots but worse flyers


So they group better but are less forgiving?


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## N7709K

Yep


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## N7709K

Who all is gonna be hittin up Iowa in a week?


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## muzzyman1212

So guys im either gonna get a vector turbo, a matrix rkt, or the new bowtech. There is rumors that its 7"bh 371fps but that seems far off it just depends what it is i wanna wait till it come out before I buy a hoyt.


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## N7709K

id go with the matrix, very solid platform for anything

got my new strings put on, nock point is i have no idea how far off(had to eyeball it).. now on to arrows... pics up later


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## muzzyman1212

Yeah I like it I might get a original matrix cause the news ones are expensive and I like xtrs better than fuels. I would put rkts on it though if thats possible with the cable rod on the original matrix.


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## N7709K

the rkt feels like the xtr's but with a much better wall/valley transition(feels more like spirals)


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> the rkt feels like the xtr's but with a much better wall/valley transition(feels more like spirals)


Yeah I bet it would work too since they put rkts on the alphaelite and it has a cable slide instead of a roller guard.


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## N7709K

limb def will change so you will need new limbs, go off the tune charts for like a vector 35 for lengths and they will be close.

would be a good shooter


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## muzzyman1212

I doubt it will change the poundage that much. But I might just get a matrix rkt I could save 500 bucks just doin a conversion.


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## N7709K

They def is diff so you will Change poundage guessing bout 5-8lbs


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> They def is diff so you will Change poundage guessing bout 5-8lbs


But it would be ok wouldnt it?


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## N7709K

will it work, yes.. will it hurt anythign.. no but poundage will change and dl..


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## isaacdahl

What do you think Jake?


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## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> What do you think Jake?
> View attachment 1245025


I know your not askin me but it looks nice only thing I would do is put a curve on the end where your ring finger goes and make the stem to the hook a little more narrow. Like this


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## isaacdahl

Yeah, Jake wanted it straight with no hook on the end so that why that's no longer there. As for the thickness of the neck, I though of that too but I'm waiting for replies to see what he thinks regarding that part. It measure .3" currently and is the thickness of my zenith so i just used that as a starting point...once you get a radius over the edges it'll also appear thinner too.


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## muzzyman1212

Oh ok are you gonna run it on a cheap material first to see how big it is and stuff.


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## isaacdahl

I can get make a pretty accurate replica out of maple which I'll probably do since it cost just about as much to make a prototype as it does to make the real thing (most of the cost is for writing the g-code to program the machine as well as time it takes to make one). I usually just print out scaled copies and compare it to the size of my other releases and the size of my hand to get a approximation of size.


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## muzzyman1212

Nice I cant hardly remeber all the g and m codes anymore.


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## isaacdahl

Nice, did you ever learn how to write one? I don't even have the least bit of clue how to write one so your one step ahead of me, lol.


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## muzzyman1212

Yeah I Was in machine tools last year and I could write programs for haas.


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## muzzyman1212

Heres a simple project I did its are school mascot a mountie.


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## muzzyman1212

I got my fatboys fletched up tonight.


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## isaacdahl

Looks nice muzzyman (both the mascot and the arrows!).


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## Rebel17

I havent ever used one of those realses and i feel dumb for askiing you all this but how do you shoot it?


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## N7709K

A hinge fires off the rotation of the release. As you pull through the shot the pressure transfers from your index to your ring finger. This fires the release.

Muzzy, those look good. I'll try and put pics up of my new arrows


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## muzzyman1212

Thanks guys


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## muzzyman1212

I ordered my fatboys from south shore archery and they cut and squared them and marked the backbone I just fletch them myself. Im pumped im shooting a vegas legue bhfs I have never shot a spot league. And theres a field course about 45 min away and im gonna shot there league too. I shot one tournament there back in october. For field and 3d im gonna use blazer x2s.


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## N7709K

you gonna run fatboys for field? that may be tough

so when jerry marked the spine and they are all indexed the same do you still have to rotate nocks to get them to print the same?


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> you gonna run fatboys for field? that may be tough
> 
> so when jerry marked the spine and they are all indexed the same do you still have to rotate nocks to get them to print the same?


Its gonna be 50yards max and its during spot and 3d season so I dont wanna shot a different arrow than fatboys. I havent shot them yet actually I havent even glued the point in do you recomend hotmelt? I need a new string bad so I havent been shooting much.


----------



## MIKEY CUSTOM-G

I bought a carbon matrix plus and put strings by Brian visco of viscosity strings on it and I couldn't be happier.

However any bow with a 7 inch brace that ibo's @ 371,,,, I'm a buyer !!!


----------



## archerykid13

muzzyman1212 said:


> Its gonna be 50yards max and its during spot and 3d season so I dont wanna shot a different arrow than fatboys. I havent shot them yet actually I havent even glued the point in do you recomend hotmelt? I need a new string bad so I havent been shooting much.


 I know you weren't talking to me but yes use hotmelt.


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## N7709K

Hot melt the tips in, only heat the tips.

As for strings, viscosity


----------



## PNWhunter

Hey guy's,

I've been looking for a thread like this for sometime and just now stumbled across it. I just started getting into spots about a month ago and I'm highly enjoying it. I need a little info on arrows, right now I am shooting 400 spine Easton Carbon Storms and have been shooting consistently good with them. I know there obvisouly not the arrow choice for a proffesional spot shooters but there my hunting arrows and at the moment I do not have the money to go buy a dozen X7's. I have a buddy that has been shooting spots for the last 8 years and for the first 4 shot with hunting arrows very similar to mine and did well. So my question is how many of you shot spots for a while with hunting arrows? If you did how good did you do with them?

Thanks,

Roby


----------



## N7709K

Last season I started the year off with my alphaburner first as hunter class then as freestyle. My burner likes two arrows, 340 spine fmj's an nfused axis so that's what I shot. To be honest I hated shooting little arrows, but they shot very very good(54-56x with pins, 55x-57x with freestyle). 

I shot several games with my lightspeeds out of my vantage elite and managed some very good Vegas and fita games with them. So you don't need a fat shaft and at times a fat shaft can be a detriment. They do shoot verygood if tuned to your setup, but they can also cause lots of head aches if they are not working just right. 

What are you thinking about for a fat shaft?


----------



## PNWhunter

For a fat shaft I was thinking about some X7's maybe some fatboys. But that leads me on to my other question, when I do make the transition to target arrows what shaft size would be appropriate? I've seen people using everything from 2315's to big ole 2712's. Is it all personal prefrence?


----------



## N7709K

When it comes to arrows, it basically all boils down to personal preferace as far as brand and size go. Only thing to keep in mind is that fita has a 23 series max.

I've tried a few, 2712's 2512's XXX x killers fatboys 2315's x ringers fullbores and a couple smaller dia shafts. They all do and will shoot 300's pretty easily, but how they shoot those scores is what matters. The majority of large dia arrows are over spines for most setups so you either have to just live with and shoot a stiff arrow or try and bring it into a spine range that works well for your bow. Out of all the arrows I have tried 27's tuned the best and from that shot the best scores. Right after those it was some really stiff xxx's, then probably back to the alu's. Currently I'm shooting and tweaking 2315's, they are shooting good but the could shoot a little better. 

What spec are you shooting? What bow? What face are you going to shoot the most?


----------



## PNWhunter

Thanks for all the info! I'm shooting an older XI bow, shooting at 55 pounds with a 28 inches draw length. As far as the face I'm going to shoot the most it's going to be the multi color 3 spot.

Thanks again.


----------



## muzzyman1212

How much for a set of visicosotys for binarys with spit cables.


----------



## N7709K

For a Vegas face I would get a 22 or 23 series arrow. Gt22's and 2315's are what I would look at, since they both fall under the max dia for fita. 

Muzzy you'd have to call Brian and ask. I know it was 30$ cheaper for me to get a set for my hoyts from him than vt. His number is 9785016210


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## PNWhunter

Ok thanks a ton for the info..I'll look onto those arrows.


----------



## Sighting In

I'll tell you straight up, I've shot a hand full of 299 Vegas scores with my little FITA arrows (ACGs). If you don't know, they are about 1/2 the size of most hunting shafts, I'd guess. But my X count goes up quite a bit shooting the bigger arrows.


----------



## PNWhunter

Thanks for the info Sighting In! Thats cool to see how well you did with out some huge 27's.


----------



## N7709K

Little arrows do shoot good, real good. First 300 Vegas game I shot, although not official was with fmj's

Never got a 300 with those Adam? What were your x counts?


----------



## isaacdahl

Jake, what'd you think of the new designs?


----------



## N7709K

isaac i'll sit down and right what i think wehn i get home, i'm down in iowa for the shoot.

shot good shots today, and beat the nerves for good.. 50x tho, but barring the 5 that went into the hole at 6 oclock the others that i dropped were shots i shouldhave let down.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Kick some arse jacob


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> isaac i'll sit down and right what i think wehn i get home, i'm down in iowa for the shoot.
> 
> shot good shots today, and beat the nerves for good.. 50x tho, but barring the 5 that went into the hole at 6 oclock the others that i dropped were shots i shouldhave let down.


Ok, no problem,.

Go get em Jake!


----------



## underdog145

Looks like it was a successful weekend at the pro am and out east in Penn. Lots of good shooting goin on. NIce to see some young new blood winning it.


----------



## Sighting In

Hey, congrats this weekend, Bridge! You shot awesome. Rock it in Vegas this year!


----------



## N7709K

congrats bud, you tore it up!!! your mom volunteered me to run teh clock for one line on sunday, lol

i feel happy, i outshot danny and joe but overall sucked it up. shot an awesome first half last night and then it trailed off after the 8th end.. shot a 56.


----------



## N7709K

Got a little bored at the range today and played with a long horn just to see how I like them. There are def things I like about them over my bt gold but there are draw backs. They allow for a weak/bad shot to break much easier and still feel good. But they are more comfortable. That said the bt gold is here to stay for a while just based on groups.

Isaac it looks good... How wide is the again? And are the faces of the finger grooves flat or rolled?


----------



## isaacdahl

It's .3" at the thinnest point...where the fingers would meet.








As for the second question, if I'm understandably you correctly, it's rolled...so it shows actual dimensions from thickest point; so just think of the release as extruded with no radius' _subtracted_ from it yet. Let me know if that's not what you were asking, lol.


----------



## N7709K

so thats teh right side veiw, rotate to a back or top view. what is the distance across the face of the grooves and are they a continous radius or a radius edge and a flat face?


----------



## isaacdahl

I'm gonna send the dwg to a friend that has inventor that way he can put the radius' on and get some good quality 3d pics...autocad really sucks for 3d and doesn't always work right.

So I can have it done anyway you'd like; just let me know.


----------



## N7709K

Got the 23's really rockin now... 23x 300vegas tonight and a second game that I didn't score but was bout a 295 fita score..... Gonna see how the other doz shoot too


----------



## N7709K

got bored and put cams back on the ae.. got her rockin for a hunting rig, but other than that i'm not sold.. gonna let a couple friends play with her in a few weeks... then off to a new home


----------



## muzzyman1212

Hey guys well I decided im gonna keep my invasion for a pure huntin rig. But im gonna get a target bow and set it up bhfs for now since thats what I mostly shoot anyway. In the future I might make it a freestyle rig though. So I was looking at vendetta xls and supras I would get black or camo so I can hunt with it if needed. I am looking to get something with less letoff than my invasion and something with not near as big of hump as my invasion. I have shot the bmxl which is comparable to the supra and I really liked it and I have also shot the vxl and liked it. So my question is would I benifit from the 2inch longer ata in the supra? Or would there be a better bow for what im lookin for that I just cant think of right now?


----------



## archerykid13

muzzyman1212 said:


> Hey guys well I decided im gonna keep my invasion for a pure huntin rig. But im gonna get a target bow and set it up bhfs for now since thats what I mostly shoot anyway. In the future I might make it a freestyle rig though. So I was looking at vendetta xls and supras I would get black or camo so I can hunt with it if needed. I am looking to get something with less letoff than my invasion and something with not near as big of hump as my invasion. I have shot the bmxl which is comparable to the supra and I really liked it and I have also shot the vxl and liked it. So my question is would I benifit from the 2inch longer ata in the supra? Or would there be a better bow for what im lookin for that I just cant think of right now?


The Supra is an awesome shooter. Won't be disappointed.


----------



## N7709K

I'd get a supra me... Sweet cams, good spec for both, just get a black one... 

The 2" ata doenst mean anythin it's te 2" extra of riser te supra has, that's what matters


----------



## Sighting In

I've shot all of them. I LOVED the draw on the vendetta. I thought they felt awesome. And the BMXL is an amazing bow, as it always has been. But, if you are going to use this for mostly target shooting, I'd also get the supra. That was my favorite PSE from last year by far, and is now only a close second behind the Dominator for 2012. The riser is the same as the BMXL, but the limbs are longer, so it will be a touch more stable. The cams are also smoother, so you can shoot it more comfortably throughout the day. Most importantly, the BH is longer in it, so it should be more forgiving, which we all need in a good target setup. You really can't go wrong with any of these, but I'd pick the Supra, only if the Dominator is not on the list (I think it holds better than the Supra, and I like the riser design better. I believe it would be more forgiving). But, as has been said MANY times before, shoot them first and then decide.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Sweet sounds like the supra is the way to go. And jacob I would get a supra me but I can get last years supra for half the price.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Oh and no one carrys target bows around here thats why I shot the bmxl since thats the closest to the supra. I like the specs on the dominator too I just have no way to shoot one.


----------



## muzzyman1212

A couple last questions what is the wall like? I remeber on the bmxl it was pretty hard and not real mushy. Is the supra similar? Also does the supra use bowmadness mods?


----------



## Sighting In

They all have awesome walls. Really solid. I don't know if the Supra uses the same mods as the BM, but I don't think they do. But if I remember right, they all have rotating mods anyway, so it doesn't really matter. The Supra is quite a bit smoother than the BM. I liked the BM, but thought it was pretty stiff, which is where all the speed comes from. No hump or anything, just stacks fast. The Supra is a bit softer and more comfy as far as that goes. But yes, it has a good wall.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Sighting In said:


> They all have awesome walls. Really solid. I don't know if the Supra uses the same mods as the BM, but I don't think they do. But if I remember right, they all have rotating mods anyway, so it doesn't really matter. The Supra is quite a bit smoother than the BM. I liked the BM, but thought it was pretty stiff, which is where all the speed comes from. No hump or anything, just stacks fast. The Supra is a bit softer and more comfy as far as that goes. But yes, it has a good wall.


Sweet man thanks and yes now that I think of it I believe they do have rotating mods. Sounds good im prolly gonna get one pretty quick since spot league starts next week.


----------



## N7709K

Rotating mods, but they do slip on the old supras, just how the mods are machined.


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Rotating mods, but they do slip on the old supras, just how the mods are machined.


I thought on the 2011s they put mod lockers on them?


----------



## N7709K

They did, as an add-on due to slipping... The me's have a diff mod setup and from what I have heard are a better cam system. 

Are you getting used or new?


----------



## N7709K

here's from the other day... shot ok today, 293 fita and a 56x, had some sweet holes tho


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> They did, as an add-on due to slipping... The me's have a diff mod setup and from what I have heard are a better cam system.
> 
> Are you getting used or new?


Used cause im gonna buy a whole setup. And im gonna buy a new shotgun soon. If I bought new I would get a supra me, I could do a cam swap in the future though.


----------



## N7709K

i'd look and see what a set of me's and limbs would be from pse.. and then get a used bmxl...


----------



## muzzyman1212

Do you think that would increase the brace height with those cams.


----------



## Sighting In

I still think if you are going to spend the money on one of these bows, take a serious look at the Dominator. I shot the 2012 one quite a bit a while ago, and I really do like the feel of it. If you can get it for a comparable price, do so. It is yet longer than the Supra, and even longer than the BMXL, which I think will translate to a steadier bow. Plus, it's a bit heavier, and tons stiffer, which I also believe makes a huge difference. And don't worry about taking the shoot through hunting. I did a few weeks ago with my Contender Elite and had zero problems as far as that goes.


----------



## N7709K

the dominator is a sweet rig, know lots of guys that shoot them very good.

i wouldn't rule out other options for target rigs if you are getting them used


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah I understand the dominator would be a tad more forgiving. But heres the deal I could get a supra for around 450 or a dominator for around 750. Is it really worth that 750? I could get a brand new bow for that.


----------



## muzzyman1212

I found a 09 pro elite for a food price. Would it be better to go that route or get a newer pse?


----------



## muzzyman1212

muzzyman1212 said:


> I found a 09 pro elite for a food price. Would it be better to go that route or get a newer pse?


Darn it good price not food.


----------



## N7709K

Here's my take on price....

For $750 you can get any target rig you want used, ve+ ce ae dominator apex c4 ue pe supra etc... They will all shoot 60x's with ease in the hands of a capable shooter. If you are going to get into Target then you need to look at it from the standpoint do I wanna spend the money now and get a bow that won't be beaten out in 5years for a little more? Or one that still shoots awesome scores but takes a bit more from the shooter? Also do you feel your game is worth the extra 350$?

For me, 750 is bout half of a new bow for target, just the bow. I don't need to drop that much or even double that to get a bow I can shoot good scores with. I choose to because that is the cost of getting what I like. For me, the price is worth what it brings to my game, for you it may not be.

What are you looking for in a target rig? One that will get you started an may be upgraded later? Or one that will get you goin and keep you going until you decide where you want to take your game?


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Here's my take on price....
> 
> For $750 you can get any target rig you want used, ve+ ce ae dominator apex c4 ue pe supra etc... They will all shoot 60x's with ease in the hands of a capable shooter. If you are going to get into Target then you need to look at it from the standpoint do I wanna spend the money now and get a bow that won't be beaten out in 5years for a little more? Or one that still shoots awesome scores but takes a bit more from the shooter? Also do you feel your game is worth the extra 350$?
> 
> For me, 750 is bout half of a new bow for target, just the bow. I don't need to drop that much or even double that to get a bow I can shoot good scores with. I choose to because that is the cost of getting what I like. For me, the price is worth what it brings to my game, for you it may not be.
> 
> What are you looking for in a target rig? One that will get you started an may be upgraded later? Or one that will get you goin and keep you going until you decide where you want to take your game?


I understand for right now im just lookin to get a bow that will be fast enough for 3d but yet forgiving also. I am gonna shoot some paper with it, and decide from there if I wanna get a new target bow and dump a lot of money into it. I am open to other options on bows but im not wanting to spend more than 650. I could get a alphaelite for that I just didnt like the fuel cams. Would a contender elite be a better choice? My problem is no one around here stocks target bow so I have to go off what I read on the net.


----------



## Sighting In

Jacob make some good points, and I pretty much agree with all of it. The way I see it, if you are going to spend the money on a target bow, you might as well spend the money, if you know what I mean. I don't know if you've heard the phrase, "Buy nice or buy twice," but that certainly applies in this situation. I don't really see much point in getting something you're not super confident in owning, just to want to buy another one later. If it were me, I'd just get what I want first off and not have to spend the money on the middle-man-bow. 

All the Hoyt target rigs will feel different based on their cams, limbs, and riser geometry. I can tell you right away the UE is an awesome bow. They had that bow in their lineup for YEARS, and there's clearly a reason for it. The bow sold for them, because the bow shot awesome scores. My back-up bow may or may not end up being an UE. Even though it's a few years old, it's just that good. 

The Contender is a different bow. It can have the same limbs and cams (depending on what combination you want) but the riser will shoot a tad differently. If you compare the two, the CE is a bit more neutral in design (reflex v deflex). This means that, in theory at least, it should hold better on target and be a bit steadier than the UE. It will also be a bit less explosive in the shot reaction from what I hear (which again, can be good or bad, depending on what you prefer). The CE is also a stiffer design (not that the UE isn't already stiff, the CE is just more so). To me, that's probably worth some of the extra money right there. But again, the UE has a proven track record; the bow just flat-out shoots. 

As far as owning these for 3D AND target shooting, well, neither will ever be super fast. You can get some decent speeds out if them if you shoot a super light arrow, but nothing lightning speeds, and that's just something you're going to have to accept. On the plus side, they are all really forgiving and accurate, so they will shoot well.


----------



## isaacdahl

I don't know near as much as Jake and Adam, but I'll through my 2 cents in anyways cause I think I know where you're coming from.

The supra is a very popular target bow around here and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one especially at $450. I guess I can't say for sure, but from what I've read shoot through vs. conventional risers aren't going to make to much of a difference (especially to justify the price) unless your a pro or picky and demand the best. The other thing is, if your new to spots and shoot 3D more competitively in that area over spots, the specs are just fine. Sure, there's better bows for spots but the supra still work well. I also think the specs are perfect for a crossover (target/ hunting) bow. Spec wise, it's just about identical to my Sentinel which, for me at least, works great for both and it's in no way to long for hunting.

If you plan on shooting tons of ibo,asa, and more serious stuff instead of local stuff and really want to move to the top fast, go for something better. If you just want to experiment with target setups and want something considerably better (for target that is) than what you have now, go with the Supra. And think of what you can do with $300...an ax3000 maybe or a good set of stabs. Dollar for dollar, buying the supra and loading it up with good accessories sounds better; jmo though so take it for what it's worth.


----------



## Sighting In

Really great points. Please don't misunderstand me. The Supra is an AWESOME bow. It feels great, shoots solid, has winning specs, and decent speeds for what it does. I would not hesitate to own one. All I was getting at is, if you are spending the cash, get what you really want in the first place. If that's a Supra, then awesome. But if you're really craving that Dominator or Contender, then buy that. If you don't, there will always be that voice in the back of your head that says "what if I got that other bow instead..."


----------



## muzzyman1212

I understand guys I have done that with bows in the past. But i have been think about this for a few days now and I think the supra would be great. I would like to try a ce but I have no way to around here. I hear spiral cams are great but no one stocks any bows with them around here. So if I did get a hoyt I would prolly get a ce or a contender but I dont know how one of those is gonna feel at 27.5 and they are draw specific so I would be screwed. I have heard the gtx cams arent real nice too. I might step up and get a supra me since its prolly worth the extra money over the regular supra.


----------



## Sighting In

I love my GTX cams. Good stiff and smooth feel, solid wall, easy to tune, dl adjustment, decent speed. What's the problem with them?


----------



## muzzyman1212

Sighting In said:


> I love my GTX cams. Good stiff and smooth feel, solid wall, easy to tune, dl adjustment, decent speed. What's the problem with them?


Sweet Ill check into hoyts with them so if its not my draw I could get new mods.


----------



## N7709K

A shoot thru riser is way stiffer and settles better than a non shoot thru, but if you haven't tried both you won't know the diff. 

If you don't know what you wanna do as far as target shooting goes then get a supra and don't look back. If later on if you feel that you wanna consider moving up then get a diff bow and keep the supra


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> A shoot thru riser is way stiffer and settles better than a non shoot thru, but if you haven't tried both you won't know the diff.
> 
> If you don't know what you wanna do as far as target shooting goes then get a supra and don't look back. If later on if you feel that you wanna consider moving up then get a diff bow and keep the supra


Yeah I still like the supra but adam has got me thinkin about a contender elite.


----------



## N7709K

For a Hoyt I'd wait and get one with spirals


----------



## N7709K

shot my first 18m 600 practice round tonight, thought with the shoot coming up on saturday i should probably shoot a couple real practice ends. 

first game was a new personal best of 297 and the second game was a 293... ended up with a 590. For my first crack at it I'm really happy


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> For a Hoyt I'd wait and get one with spirals


Really? I just about got myself talked out of the supra into gettin a ce. So I shouldnt get gtx or the 2010 cam and a halfs.


----------



## longshot95

Now that I think about it the owner of the shop I go to has a ve+ with spirals I could prolly shoot it if i ask ill go there tomorrow!


----------



## muzzyman1212

longshot95 said:


> Now that I think about it the owner of the shop I go to has a ve+ with spirals I could prolly shoot it if i ask ill go there tomorrow!


Dang it accidently posted it on my dads account.


----------



## N7709K

here are the breakdown of the hoyt cams, 

gtx: modular cam that has base families for different dl's. loweslt letoff you can get are 65%. they have the feel of the older cam.5+ but with the speed and wall more similar to spirals. they are a toss up, some either love or either hate. from what i have heard they are pinky about timing.

cam.5+: they are a rotaty mod cam that goes off of families as well. either 65% or 75% so you have some potions. the wall isn't all that great and they are the cams that you get if you are not done growing.. thats bout it. they shoot fine, don't get me wrong, but they aren't all that great either.

spirlas: draw specific but best cam hoyt has to offer. fastest, hardest wall of any cable stop cams, and has the most adjustability.. down side is they ramp rather fast and they do have a very short valley. spirals will force you to shoot correct shots.

oout of the above cams all can, will, adn do shoot 300's and 60x games and in the hands of the same shooters. they take a little playing to get right and i can do things to hoyts that i can't do to other rigs.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Well my draw length hasnt grown in a year so im sure it might grow since im 16 but dont think it will for a while. I should I just have the draw length checked on my invasion and make sure its running a true 27.5 then get a 27.5" draw ce with spirals. I have looked for a while btw and there hard to find.


----------



## N7709K

for spirals dl has to be perfect or your gonna fight the cams, thats the big catch... non adjustable and you need to have them good.

where have you been looking? ive seen lots of them in that spec


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> for spirals dl has to be perfect or your gonna fight the cams, thats the big catch... non adjustable and you need to have them good.
> 
> where have you been looking? ive seen lots of them in that spec


On AT in the classifieds


----------



## muzzyman1212

Ill shoot that one tomorrow and I believe its a 28" so it will be a tad long but not to bad it will atleast give me the idea. If I like it I will prolly look for a contender elite with xt2000s and spirals.


----------



## Sighting In

Thanks for writing that up for me Jacob. Had too many things going on tonight to do it myself. lol

One thing I want to point out though is that both the GTX and Cam.5 are solid. Jacob's pretty partial to the Spirals, and it kind of shows in his posts. While they don't make the Cam.5 anymore, you can still get it used. They won't have quite as solid wall, and the valley is longer, so you can creep a bit with them. But even still, awesome scores have been and will continue to be shot by them. They just feel different (VERY smooth and buttery), and if that's what you're looking for, get it.

Similar with the GTX. Just because they aren't a draw specific cam doesn't mean they are useless. They have a much stiffer draw than the Cam.5, but in a good way. They stack quickly but smoothly, with a short valley that drops in very comfortably. They are a very sold and good shooting cam, and I've really enjoyed mine. He's right in that you do have to get the cams timed right, but that is true of most bows. 

All I'm getting at is that Spirals are not the only way to go. Are they a great cam? Yes, without doubt. I would shoot one in a heartbeat. But all the other cams are great too. It just depends on what you need and want from the feel of it.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Sighting In said:


> Thanks for writing that up for me Jacob. Had too many things going on tonight to do it myself. lol
> 
> One thing I want to point out though is that both the GTX and Cam.5 are solid. Jacob's pretty partial to the Spirals, and it kind of shows in his posts. While they don't make the Cam.5 anymore, you can still get it used. They won't have quite as solid wall, and the valley is longer, so you can creep a bit with them. But even still, awesome scores have been and will continue to be shot by them. They just feel different (VERY smooth and buttery), and if that's what you're looking for, get it.
> 
> Similar with the GTX. Just because they aren't a draw specific cam doesn't mean they are useless. They have a much stiffer draw than the Cam.5, but in a good way. They stack quickly but smoothly, with a short valley that drops in very comfortably. They are a very sold and good shooting cam, and I've really enjoyed mine. He's right in that you do have to get the cams timed right, but that is true of most bows.
> 
> All I'm getting at is that Spirals are not the only way to go. Are they a great cam? Yes, without doubt. I would shoot one in a heartbeat. But all the other cams are great too. It just depends on what you need and want from the feel of it.


Sweet ill try to get ahold of a bow with gtx cams and one with spirals to decide which I like better.


----------



## N7709K

Adam, do you have to have the correct rotation for your gtx to time up and shoot good? Or do you have a little room on either side?


----------



## N7709K

Here's why I am partial to spirals.... they are the only 55% letoff cam i can get that i do NOT need to twist up and change the rotation to get that letoff, i need low letoff and they allow it. I can have them timed how i like, top fast, top slow, even, etc.... I can set lean or take it out, i can over rotate or under rotated depending on what i need to get as far as feel goes. I can the stops hit at diff times and improve the groups, not degrade them... 

as for the other factors, i used to shoot cam.5+ and shot them quite well. Lots of high x 300's and lots of decent vegas scores. They do draw easier, not smoother, but they don't have the solid wall like spirals do. there is some give to them and they do allow for creep without letting the arrows get too far out from center. Don't get me wrong, they are a solid, were a solid cam.

the gtx are the only cam's i haven't put through their paces, but have tried. they draw more like spirals than the cam.5+ did, but they have a tad more valley and roll into the valley. they shoot just fine, but i'm not sold on them yet. if they offered a low letoff mod i would for sure try them.


----------



## isaacdahl

How's that look...









Also, I added a measurement...is that enough room to allow for adjustment in that direction our should there be more room? Don't know how far one would adjust in that direction.


----------



## N7709K

1/16th may or may not be, depends on the angle of the head and the amount of tension that will take to fire


----------



## N7709K

anyone got any shoots coming up?


----------



## muzzyman1212

League starts first of febuary. I went to the shop today but I didnt have a chance to shoot that ve+ with spirals. But while I was there a ve+ came in with gtx cams it looked nice but if course im not gonna ask a guy who hasnt even shot his bow to shoot it. I wish they had a demo ce or ve but I guess they dont sell enough to have one.


----------



## N7709K

depends on the shooter, some would let ya some wouldnt'


----------



## muzzyman1212

I asked the guy there that knows me since I go a lot. About target bows and he said pretty much what you said if I get a supra get the me and a contender is a good choice.


----------



## Sighting In

Got State Champs this weekend, JOAD State champs next weekend, a break, then Vegas, and maybe Reo Rancho 2 weeks after that. Plus I still have another few weeks of league. Super busy season. lol


----------



## muzzyman1212

Oh I ordered new strings and cables for my invasion today too. I got all red speckle it should look alright. State championships are in like april here I couldnt shoot them last year but I think a 299 I dont remember the x count won it so im gonna shoot it this year. That was youth.


----------



## muzzyman1212

I have got 3 bows in mind now. Ce, 2010 carbon matrix, or alphaelite.


----------



## N7709K

the ae and matrix are ok.. but not that great for target


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> the ae and matrix are ok.. but not that great for target


Ok, Ive found some contenders in my spec but not ce.


----------



## N7709K

i've seen a few.. they are all over in every dl but 29"


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> i've seen a few.. they are all over in every dl but 29"


Yeah im lookin for a 27.5 are you a 29"?


----------



## N7709K

been a 29" for like three years, so yeah.. seem too shoot good at it


----------



## muzzyman1212

Sweet.


----------



## underdog145

Got a busy schedule in the next few weeks. Gonna head down to KC this weekend and try to make a few bucks. Then its off to LAS the next weekend to make a nice donation there.  haha. Then the weekend after that, it's off to Vegas for the Indoor World Champs. And nearly on top of that, I have to stay in Vegas for 10 days as I'm gonna shoot the WAF while I'm there as well.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Hey guys on last years dominator with the hybrid cams did any other bow have those cams. Im just trying to figure out a way to try them out.


----------



## N7709K

supra with hybrids.. i would just get the one you want, its not like they are bad cams.. new ones are just better


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> supra with hybrids.. i would just get the one you want, its not like they are bad cams.. new ones are just better


Last years supra didnt have hybrids though. I wish someone carried target bows around here then I wouldnt have to ask so many questions online.


----------



## N7709K

no one stocks target rigs other than pse's.. they don't sell if they are fixed dl and certain colors etc.. i had to order my ae/ve+ sight unseen and hope that i got somethign that worked. first time i even held a ve+ was when mine showed up


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah i understand they dont sell but it would jut be nice if I could try one. If I could try them I could make up my mind on my dominator or ce debate.


----------



## N7709K

muzzy do you make any large shoots? or possibly can make large shoots?


new stabs showed, pics coming


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> muzzy do you make any large shoots? or possibly can make large shoots?
> 
> 
> new stabs showed, pics coming


The biggest shoots I make are state level but mostly local shoots. I shoot in one national shoot but its not just archery its called international yhec. Its is sporting clays, .22, 3d archery, and muzzleloader.


----------



## N7709K

hmmm.. there any shooters locally/at the state shoots that run dom/supra/hoyts?


----------



## muzzyman1212

What I think im gonna do is shoot my invasion the first couple weeks of league and see if anyone has a ce, supra, or a dominator I could shoot. Im sure there will be one or the other. I know a couple guys shoot ve+ one has spirals the other has gtx so I can ask at league to shoot them.


----------



## muzzyman1212

And most of the local shoots are bhfs and its just people with there huntin rigs so none there.


----------



## N7709K

Hmmm.... If you try the ve's just feel for how the cams are and how the bow reacts... Not how it's weighted or all that


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Hmmm.... If you try the ve's just feel for how the cams are and how the bow reacts... Not how it's weighted or all that


Yeah im just wanting to feel the cams mainly I understand some people want more weight where others dont.


----------



## N7709K

Bout time, finally got me Vegas 300 in comp. 300 22x


----------



## isaacdahl

Good shootin Jake!


----------



## isaacdahl

Anyone notice that Easton came out with new field arrow the?...A/C pro field. Larger than the protours and from what I can tell, that's really the only difference.


----------



## N7709K

I think pro fields are tapered and x10's barreled


----------



## N7709K

here's from saturday


----------



## underdog145

Look at those cute little dimples.  haha.


----------



## N7709K

lol you are something else bridger

pair of 300's tonight, 24x and 23x


----------



## underdog145

Man, I wish i was as good as you.  I need to get my head outta my butt when it comes to 3 spots this year. Cant wait to see you in vegas bud.


----------



## N7709K

I'll shoot vegas ya wanna shoot 5spot? Lol I can just focus for 30 arrows, not 60lol


----------



## N7709K

this may interest some of you.. got some new arrows last night to play with

Spec:
carbon injexion 330's
28.5" shaft lenth(actual without nock is like 28 1/16")
120gr's up front
3 2" duravanes
total weight of 430 grs

and the ve+ is kicking them at 260fps at 29" 58lbs with spirals.

so far they group pretty good, very good out to 40yds(1.5"-2" groups).. haven't had enough time to test them past that yet. shot a little at 50yds and they shoot good, no wind drift....

the ones i was given came factory "crested" but they are more like wraps. very thick and stiff, almost like the easton shrink wrap wraps that they introduced this year. They fletch very nice. 

the components are very nice, but the g-nocks are slightly smaller od than that of the shaft, so you have shaft around the nock. not the biggest issue but it also means that you CANNOT use acg components to build these as target arrows.. not the end of the world, the 20gr ss hit inserts and the targetpoints go in very easy with hotmelt and seem to hold up very well.

the two complaints that i have are 1, the label on the shafts does sit rather far back and is pretty long(drags on the blade, gets torn up)... other than that they are very nice in the looks department. 2, the spines.. a 330 is stiff for my setup but a 390 with the same 120gr upfront is too weak... it would be nice to have seen a 350spine for these in the carbon..


----------



## isaacdahl

Nice review Jake...do they come with or have the option of bushings? My eyes or no good and I can't tell from the pic if there's bushings there or not, lol.


----------



## N7709K

no.. flush fit, well as close as you can get with g-nocks.. a bohning f nock may cover more of the back of the shaft, but i doubt it... 

i may put pins in them, i'm not sure yet.. it depends on how well they shoot


----------



## isaacdahl

What kinda bushings would you use then?


----------



## N7709K

for pins? probably pro field pins or acg pins.. slightly smaller flange od, but better than just straight nocks if they are pounding tight groups


----------



## isaacdahl

Oh, pins...gotcha.


----------



## N7709K

22x Vegas game tonight, streak is growing.... Played with a new batch of fullbores and they flat out pound... May have four my Vegas arrow


----------



## super*

Wish i could shoot i could figure out a vegas game to shoot 300s consistently. 5 spot game i can run 60x before a 300 on a vegas target.


----------



## N7709K

5 spot is easy, big spot to aim at.. all you have to do is shoot a decent shot and you will hit the x.. vegas is all about hitting the little x, set up so that you are holding tighter on the x and shoot away. forces concentration and ultimately better scores...

so in other words, dont shoot 5 spot


----------



## underdog145

You still have to be able to be used to the sight picture of looking at a 5 spot tho.


----------



## N7709K

I guess here is how i see it. if all you do is shoot 5 spot, your used to being able to have marginal shots and still be happy with them.. they are x's best score you can shoot. if all you shoot is vegas you don't like marginal shots, they are 10's not x's or even 9's if fita scored.

on a 5spot you have a much larger target to hit.. its a brighter background behind your dot so it changes the size perspective of your dot. lighter area, dot looks smaller on the face target looks little bigger. darker face on vegas, dot looks bigger, darker background. 

if you think of it as just a target, then it doesn't matter what you practice on... put your dot on what you wanna hit and shoot a good shot.


----------



## isaacdahl

I've just got back from getting the release drawn up in inventor (thanks to my friend Denny) and he's gonna send the files and pics later this evening. I'll post them as soon as I get them so you can get a look at them.


----------



## isaacdahl

*Inventor pics*

The colors aren't on perfect so just ignore that part. There is also supposed to be a set screw pictured where the head adjusts but that's not included in the picture but it is there in the file.








Let me know what you think.


----------



## archerykid13

It looks good to me Isaac.


----------



## N7709K

doesn't look too bad, only issue i'm seeing is the hook

got back on track after a couple day stretch where it didn't wanna come together... 300 23x tonigh


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, thought I had most of that hook gone, but once I got it 3d it really seemed to pop. It should be easy to get rid of though so no worry.


----------



## isaacdahl

Your talking about the hook on the end of the third finger, correct?


----------



## N7709K

no the actual hook... looks too deep


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, I think I know what ya mean...just shorten up the face of the hook some so there's less distance from deepest part to the point where it releases...right?


----------



## isaacdahl

ttt


----------



## isaacdahl

*updated hook*

Here's the updated hook. I shortened it 1/16". The black splotch is your run of the mill 2mm d-loop cord for size comparison. 








Look about right?


----------



## N7709K

i still think its way to deep but it may not be.. you'd have to have one made and test it to see how much more needs to be taken off or possible added if teh release fires too hot


----------



## super*

N7709K said:


> 5 spot is easy, big spot to aim at.. all you have to do is shoot a decent shot and you will hit the x.. vegas is all about hitting the little x, set up so that you are holding tighter on the x and shoot away. forces concentration and ultimately better scores...
> 
> so in other words, dont shoot 5 spot


I think the biggest issue for me is i get lost in the yellow if i have 3 good first shots giving me black holes to sink my pin into in the x i will shoot a 300 with 23ish xs but if i have jar licker 10s then i will sink into those holes and hit them everytime even if i push the holes out.


----------



## N7709K

heal the holes if they ain't in the middle.. you aren't the only one that gets drawn to holes..


----------



## muzzyman1212

My bow has been at the shop for a week waiting on new strings. I already had a new set but they were speckled and the diameter was to big. So he had to build me a new set just red and black and my old set was trashed so I just havent shot my bow in a week! I really need a new bow im really looking at contender elites or dominator pros I just dont know what cams to get. I just need to shoot them. The dominator pro 3d looks pretty nice too for a 3d/spot bow.


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> i still think its way to deep but it may not be.. you'd have to have one made and test it to see how much more needs to be taken off or possible added if teh release fires too hot


Ok, I think I'll just leave it how it is currently (like the pic above). It should be a good average.


----------



## N7709K

26 baby x's tonight with the 23's... vegas is looking better and better.. this time with a diff release, but going back to old faithful at the word of GRIV


----------



## underdog145

Dude, your good.  haha. I'm seeming to be having a little trouble with my 23s. Switched nocks and that seemed to help a little. 27s are cruzin tho. 300 w/28 two nights in a row. Leavin saturday for vegas.


----------



## N7709K

Try some 100gr tips in them bridge, Thy really help


----------



## isaacdahl

Jake, if your 100% happy with the release, I'll give the go ahead to the shop to machine the first one. Then we can talk finishes.


----------



## outdoorkid1

I shot my first vegas 300 round yesturday and first time keeping score with my back tension release. Thanks to alot of people on here I keep getting better and better at using it. 

293 with 11X's bhfs class


----------



## N7709K

What cost look like? Right now my funds are pretty low and probably will be until after Vegas....


----------



## isaacdahl

Pm sent.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Well guys I shot 2 ve+ today one with spirals(1" to short) one with gtx the one with gtx was closer to my dl. But I think I like the gtx better. They were both nice but the gtx were smooth all the way back and the spirals just felt different. But the spirals were an in short. They were both really smooth though.


----------



## Sighting In

Like I've said before, the GTX shoot awesome. Good speeds, solid wall, awesome feel. But I think Jacob mentioned before, you have to watch the timing on them. Not that they move around, but when you set it up first they have to be pretty dead on or you'll feel it.


----------



## N7709K

Shot some diff bows today.. A ve+ with gtx @ 27.5" and a dom pro me @29" the gtx draw nice but the wall is better o
Spirals... Good cams but I'll stick with spirals. The dominator was nice but different


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Shot some diff bows today.. A ve+ with gtx @ 27.5" and a dom pro me @29" the gtx draw nice but the wall is better o
> Spirals... Good cams but I'll stick with spirals. The dominator was nice but different


How does the dominator compare to the ve+. It has caught my eye cause the specs are good and its still got some speed. How the valley and the wall with those me cams? I have heard people are putting bigger draw stops on them to give them more letoff.


----------



## N7709K

They aren't bad, the dfc of the one I shot was kinda whack but it was ok... The wall is pretty good on them solid but with a tiny bit of flex.. The letoff is ok, I like less but this works. It's different enough that I would probably play with it to try and get a feel similar to spirals out of it, but I could still shootgood scores with it


----------



## N7709K

here is a brief explaniton of why i do not and don't suggest others to paper tune, it means nothing.

whole reason i even toyed with it today was because mom was having a sporadic arrow and we wanted to see if one was way out compaired to the others. shot them all through paper at 3-4ft before you rail me for not trying multiple distances, as it turned out the paper "tune" caused worse flight than before. got all the arrow's shooting the same pattern through paper... stepped up to 20yds and they sprayed all over hell(didn't touch rest, i knew that was good even though tare said i should move it). turned nocks back to where arrows were all shooting the same at 20yds and she cranked out some sweet vegas games.

as for me, i shot 3 arrows, one at 3ft, one at 9ft, one at 15ft.. as you can see the in the pic the tears get worse as i move back. top cam leans to the right, rest at basically centershot, and th bow shoots lights out scores.

this is the first time in two years i've shot through paper.. honestly.. i eyeball the setup and go shoot, change what needs to be changed as i go along


----------



## isaacdahl

I don't paper tune either. It's just a big pain in the you know what; plus, like you, it's never got me anywhere.

Maybe you can help me with this. When I broadhead tuned last fall, there was no possible way to NOT get any fletching contact and still have my field points and broadheads shoot together. I eventually just left if because it was shooting fine, but my fletching is contacting the roller guard (hate those things but love the bow) no matter how I turn thtee fletching. Idk what to do as I know this is/was a common problem with the Sentinel. Last resort will be to go to a shoot through system, but I'm not giving up to that point yet.


----------



## outdoorkid1

I also just eye ball it and then bare shaft tune out to as far as I can get. Works great for broadheads


----------



## isaacdahl

^^^yeah, I'd like to try that, thing is, I never have any bare shafts laying around(that are the same as the ones I'm shooting anyways). I'm not sure what's the best method is for tuning anymore, according to Buster of X's walk back is a hoax, according to me and many others, paper tuning's doesn't work to great...haha I guess nothings gonna make us happy lol.

I think I'll try short distance tuning next...see if that's any good, lol.


----------



## N7709K

Tuning is one thing that people worry about way too much. You can only do so much before it's negative and most shooters are not consistent enough to be able to shoot te same shot every time.

I don't paper tune, bare shaft, etc... Little group tune and a little modified walk back. Takes a little time and is pretty easy. Broadheada I don't have issues with, eyeball everything and just go shoot. If you have issues you may need work on the shooter and not the bow. My bow shot the above holes with cam lean, the top cam slower than the bottom cam, the centershot may be off(eyeballed), and some torque. Shoots very good scores out to 50yds, and that's what matters


----------



## isaacdahl

Huh, interesting, I suppose your right though. We probably make to much out of tuning than is necessary.

Yeah, I was grouping fine until it came to broadheads...seems like they just wanted to tune right of center.


----------



## N7709K

let them.. all that shows is spine of the arrows is off. i'll run a stiff spine on any arrow i shoot for several reasons and have never had an issue with broadheads.

imo you should only and can only truly tune a bow after shooting it for several months unless it is a CC of one you already have. you need time to get used to the bow, learn the bow, find the sweet spot in the stabilizers, what arrows it likes, what scores it can produce before you go all over everything. if you start playing right away with any bow you don't know what the baseline is for that bow and what it takes to get the most out of it. For example i can feel if my ve+ is out of time by a twist just bow the roll into the valley and the wall. don't use a drawboard anymore, just go off of feel and it works very very well because it goes off of the feel, not the looks. Its like tuning engines, old school goes off of sound, not what a comp says... same principle. 

after that i'll play with dl, twist here or there, timing, preload on the limbs, rest position, stabilizers, etc.. only thing i won't touch is peep height and nock point. thats what the constant is. Certain arrows shoot better scores and its pretty easy to see which arrows those are, same goes for scope setups, releases, stab configs, timing.. all of that. thats all there is to it, just getting the feel that you desire. I don't tune for speed, i tune for feel 


need to correct for above, top cam leans to the left.. bottom cam tracks pretty straight, but couldn't tell ya if its off at full draw haven't checked and don't plan on it


----------



## N7709K

bridger is waiting for thursday to bring home gold at the USAT indoors out in vegas, way to go bud


----------



## muzzyman1212

I just shot a indoor shoot and chris berry was there. It was cool to watch a guy shoot that good.


----------



## N7709K

always fun to shoot with those guys isn't it? 

first one i shot with was chance at practice for vegas couple years back, then GRIV, then reo and logan, and hopefully more this year, lol... then there is bridger, lol


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah it was awesome he was talking about leaving for vegas.


----------



## N7709K

how did he shoot? i'm taking off tomorrow night.. gonna go shoot a couple more arrows before i pack the bow up


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah I dont know his x count but I know he shot a 450. He was a very nice guy he was shooting a dominator pro with the new cams.


----------



## N7709K

you ask to shoot it?

the one i shot had the cams timed a little diff than i would and the dfc was kinda off, and it showed. the bow shot good, but not how it should be shooting. i'm gonna talk to pse a little and see what they have open and what they could do for me.. may talk to hoyt too if my local rep is there(not that he is the best rep). as it sits now i'm not jumping ship anytime soon, for bows, scopes, sights, and stabilizers(ever), and gonna talk to brian about shooting for him and maybe see what easton, gt or cx can do for me.


----------



## isaacdahl

A weaker spined arrow would, in a perfect world, get my my rest centered a little better (moving it farther left is what I'm trying to do),right? As I've mentioned before, I'm way overspined and tuning past just eyeballing everything and broadhead tuning confuses me.

Almost done with my bowpress (yeah, I finally got around to it) so once I get dl fined tuned and get it shooting well, I'll mess with arrows.

FYI, I'm still trying to get rid of some 340 lightspeeds if anyone's interested.


----------



## N7709K

No, weaker is worse... Well overly weak. You have a range of +/- 5% of optimal spine that will spine out the best. Heavier tips or longer arrows will weaken spine. Larger helical feathers or vanes will also aide in softening spine


----------



## isaacdahl

My lightspeeds 340s are 26.5 carbon to carbon with 135gr up front and 3 blazers and a short wrap on the other end. Terribly over spined...moving to around a 400 spine would do what to my tuning?


----------



## N7709K

I'd relfetch with a 3-4" helical vane lefthand and see how they shoot and tune... You can also play with timing an letoff


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, maybe I'll give that a try since I was just gonna refletch them today anyways.


----------



## N7709K

Set the jig for a good helical and them make sure to dot the front/back of the vanes.


----------



## isaacdahl

What kinda vanes do you like in that range that will still steer well but won't catch wind to bad...just worried about long distance stuff a little.


----------



## outdoorkid1

How do you guys shoot with back tension in the wind? Saw this video and looks like the guy from South Africa was having a hard time.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liVFvL24scw


----------



## isaacdahl

It isn't very easy...I just struggle through it most of the time. That's were a thumb release comes in nice.


----------



## N7709K

Set your release heavy and pull through


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> Set your release heavy and pull through


x2.

Jake


----------



## N7709K

How you shoot changes under certain conditions and mental states. If you are an aggressive shooter you will fare better with a hinge outdoors. Vanes dont matter best hunting arrows I ever shot were fmj's fletched with helical feathers.... They didn't care bout wind

Shot ok the past two days, outta the running but doing ok and keepin up with the pack. I'll see how tomorrow goes. i got a change to gain some ground tomorrow. The new venue has taken a toll on some guys and helped others. It'll be a good shoot off but probably pretty short. So far it looks like 10 guys gonna make it through tomorrow with a 300.. Cleland, reo, Jesse, Shane, Garret, chance, Peter elzinga, wilkey, Willet.. And a couple more that are close... Lucky dog is gonna be tough


----------



## pikemaster

just got back from the alberta winter games. finished first place.


----------



## isaacdahl

Way to go pikemaster!


----------



## Sighting In

Hey, awesome shooting this weekend, Jacob. 898 is a pretty impressive score, let alone for your first time with the big boys. Solid X count too. Way to go.


----------



## archerykid13

Not bad for an amateur. Haha jk Jacob. You did good!!

Jake


----------



## outdoorkid1

wow, nice shootin


----------



## N7709K

I was consistent, 299 23 299 22 300 22 so that's the big thing, and I know why I dropped those two points. 

Pressure was off last day and it went really easy, had a couple x's that got called out that were probably touching but I wasnt gonna push it when I was out of the running. There were lots of 300's last day, lol. I did better than last year and shot my average, so that's what matters


----------



## outdoorkid1

Whats up with the two 9's??? jk

great shooting


----------



## underdog145

2 nines is a lot better than my 7 dude. haha.


----------



## archerykid13

underdog145 said:


> 2 nines is a lot better than my 7 dude. haha.


You did good too, Bridger!!!


Jake


----------



## N7709K

But you shot a pair of 300's bud and took home a couple gold


----------



## muzzyman1212

Hey jacob you ever thought of shooting bowhunter class if you could figure out how to shoot as good as you are now you would be at the top in bowhunter. Just a thought. Other than that good shooting!


----------



## N7709K

honestly, bow hunter sucks.... scores are bout the same but if you clean it you take it, there ain't a shoot off and i hate pins... shoot just fine and have shot piles of 299's and a 300 or two with pins, but i don't like them.

bowhunter also has some of the most serious shooters mental wise out of any class, that leads to not as much fun shooting when you don't need that level of mental game to shoot those scores.... thats why i went pro, made first flight in freestyle and only two people talked to my on sunday, one was matt stuzman and a shooter from mn that i know.. everyone else needed the super strict mental game to shoot 300's to 299s.....


----------



## muzzyman1212

Do you have to shoot pins in bowhunter? Dont get me wrong I know your a great shot i was just looking at the bowhunter scores and thought dang. Darrin collins who got 10th was also at the shop when I shot the other day. He was real serious mentally.


----------



## archerykid13

Yes. You have to use pins. All those bowhunter guys are SUPER serious with there mental game.

Jake


----------



## N7709K

you have to use pins in a way.. but you can use diff options. basically no lens at all... they are way to serious.. if they weren't so serious they would shoot better or move up into pro


----------



## N7709K

the mental game is the part that either makes or breaks a shooter and how they handle it on and off the field is what really matters.. me, i don't care if i drop one or if i clean a round.. i shoot 30 strong shots and move on... lots of guys will shoot a 9 and get messed up for a while, i dropped a 9 arrow 15 the first day, changed top to bottom and shot 3 x's.. second day i dropped arrow 6, shot 3 x's the next end... all that matters is i let it go and got through it, take the game at 30 single shot games and i won 22 of them on sunday only 22.. not 30 but 22

then there are the guys that drop one, boom they fall apart and are done.. they will shoot several bad ends before they get back on track if they get back on track. these are the guys who need to step back and hammer out shot execution before they want to win it all.. if you are that on edge that one thing as simple as shooting the wrong spot will blow a game, you need to step back and take a look at the overall picture.... 

the top flight in freestyle and most of bowhunter/youth are like that.. they are pushing too hard or being pushed to hard to shoot well


----------



## N7709K

i'm also not in it for the money, if i was i wouldn't have gone pro.. i would have stayed in flights and taken home a check....


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah I need to work on my mental game it really hurts my scores. If I shoot a bad end then I get down on myself them it turns into 3 bad ends haha. But if I work on letting it go I could do better I think. I am gonna get a supra me for 3d and spots for now then sell my invasion in the future and get a spot bow probably a ve+. Thats awesome that you are a pro I hope to be one, one day but I gotta work on my game and go to skme big shoots.


----------



## N7709K

only way to work on mental is to shoot comps


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> only way to work on mental is to shoot comps


x2.

Jake


----------



## N7709K

here's from sunday after i settled in and didn't make any stupid shots, lol


----------



## archerykid13

I can shoot that with my eyes closed .

Jake


----------



## Sighting In

Dude, that's a great pic. Sad I had to leave early and missed that. The third spot looks so clean.


----------



## N7709K

3rd spot was nice, but only 10/12x's.. my bottom spot first day was a little better went 11/12.. and then a 9/12 on saturday 

i'll get pics up later of my targets..

when you gonna put the pics your dad took of your round on friday up?


----------



## Sighting In

Last Shot








Last end of my 300 on Friday. It's close, but the judge called it. lol


----------



## isaacdahl

Nice shootin guys! 

Anyone know if there's any inserts that will fit the carbon ones?


----------



## N7709K

adam, is that lean i see in your top cam? or just angle? it looks like either the bow is canted or your top cam leans


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> adam, is that lean i see in your top cam? or just angle? it looks like either the bow is canted or your top cam leans


I see lean also. Whats up with that Adam? Haha jk

Jake


----------



## N7709K

lean is good if its set correctly... i have lean in mine and its better now than before


----------



## Sighting In

Bow's not canted... It might be the angle, but to tell the truth, I never checked the lean at full draw. I set it good at rest and left it. But honestly, when I replaced the buss cable I shot a bit before I fixed the lean (like, equal twists on both sides of the yolk, pretty bad lean) and it ended up shooting the same anyway. I'm not too worried about it, even if it does tilt a bit at full draw.


----------



## N7709K

ok, i'd set a little in at brace and see what it does to scores and groups.. takes 30 sec to do and may pay off in spades. for mine i lean the cam to the left so the cam track rides the cable better. the ve+ rides better than on a shorter ata rig like my mom's PE but it still doesn't ride 100% in the track at full draw.. wears the cables a bit and softens the top end of the wall

how those arrows shooting? 200's give a little open groups? 100's give tighter holes and better x's but lower scores(295 20x type deal?)


----------



## super*

Sighting In said:


> Bow's not canted... It might be the angle, but to tell the truth, I never checked the lean at full draw. I set it good at rest and left it. But honestly, when I replaced the buss cable I shot a bit before I fixed the lean (like, equal twists on both sides of the yolk, pretty bad lean) and it ended up shooting the same anyway. I'm not too worried about it, even if it does tilt a bit at full draw.


congrats on the win at vegas. Never heard of ya. Hope to see you at nationals.


----------



## Sighting In

Actually, I've gone back to my 2312s. The 15s just aren't flying straight at all. I could probably get them figured out, but Nationals is in a week, and I really don't have the time to play with it this close. They are kicking really bad tail left.


----------



## underdog145

They might be just a little too stiff for you bud. I know I had tons of right misses when i shot my 2312s because of the spine. My 15s fly great. But im also shooting 60 pounds at 28.5 in with spirals, so i have a little more to play with. haha.


----------



## N7709K

That with 200's? They prob have too much up front and the rest is a tiny bit off... Idk I just shoot anymore and 100's seem to be the hot ticket. Atleast what I have found from shooting, 100's add x's and shrink groups 200's open groups and lower x's.


At 27.5" 60lbs a 31" with 200 upfront and then micros and 2" x vanes is coming in at like .380-.390 spine wise.. With 100's they will come in at .340 ish. Unless gtx tune weak they should work


----------



## Sighting In

I don't know, they just aren't flying straight. Like I said, I'm sure I could get there with some tweaking, but I've got a week. I think for now I'll stick with what I got and focus on shooting instead of playing with stuff. Maybe I'll get them to work after Nats when I have time to spare.


----------



## N7709K

that happens, could be those little vanes too

got this tonight.. bout time, lol


----------



## pikemaster

Hey guys, 
Couple of questions... what power of scopes do you use? and also, I know youre supposed to focus on the x and let the pin come to it but I find when I do this my dot starts wavering around quite a bit. When I just focus on the dot and putting it in the middle it just sits there nicely. Do any of you focus on the middle like youre supposed to? lol
Brandon.


----------



## N7709K

I use a 6 power others use 4's... Just let your pin float and shoot a good shot


----------



## underdog145

I shoot a 4 power scope for everything with the smallest dot available on the specialty dot kit. When im aiming, i am actually not really focusing on the dot or the target. Almost focusing somewhere in the middle of the two. You could say i more or less just focus on keeping the dot centered. 

But no matter how you aim, if it works for you, do it. Dont try to change anything because it is what everyone else is doing. There's nothing wrong with experimenting, but always try to remember what you know works. That way, if you try something and it ends up being a flop, you can go back to what you're comfortable with.


----------



## super*

I use a 4x drilled lense with a melted piece of fiber optic as my dot, with a yellow clarifier. Im one to focus on my target. When i focus on my target i look right through the dot to the center of the x which works for me. If i focus on my dot it stays clear but i miss a few xs due to lack of focus on my target. For me pre shot execution is very critical. I knock my arrow grab my release bring the bottom cam of my bow to my thigh. Then i stair down the x while doing so i pull back my bow and bring my dot into the x using my peripheral vision also making sure my bubble is flat. Once my pins in the x i start to pull through the shot. If my pin moves out of the x i let down and start over or i start over if i hold past my shot window.

Everyone is different so do what works the best for you. Just have to make sure your pre shot execution is the same everytime and that there is no lack of focus through out the shot because when you blank out that is when your going to make a shot that felt good but will score bad and in a big shoot a goof once your done.


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## N7709K

you can focus on the x, or you can not.. it doesnt matter you just need to trust what you shoot. bridgers dot and sight picture are blurry for me so i would have trouble shooting it, although i did manage an x, lol... mine is clear for me and idk what its like for others. I shoot a fat dot for vegas and tiny for 5spot... both work well. I have shot pins and truespots and shoot 300's on vegas and high x count blue face games.. so it all works

when you find a setup that yields good scores... don't change it, just leave it


----------



## muzzyman1212

I ordered my supra me in forest green today! Its not new but it is to me. And I have state qualifiers tomorrow for spots so I hope I do good.


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## N7709K

you'll shoot fine, just don't think about scores.. take the round one shot at a time and win that single shot game


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## isaacdahl

Good luck muzzyman!

Well, I'm trying to get rid of my lightspeeds again, so if I have some luck there, I'll need a different arrow...here's what I'm looking for:~400gr., 400 range spine, MUST HAVE PINS OR BUSHINGS (biggest problem right there), small diameter yet able to use inserts. Trying to cut back on the $$ aspect some more this year so this will be a do-all outdoor arrow.

Can't find anything...carbon ones are closest but no inserts for them. A/C arrows are most likely gonna be outta the question ($$). Are there any bushings that will fit the axis?


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## N7709K

why do you want inserts? if they are for target you'll be way better off getting glue in 1 piece


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## muzzyman1212

Well dang I read the date wrong, its the 26th its ok cause I wasnt quite ready yet. I need to practice. But thanks guys.


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## isaacdahl

I'll be using them for hunting. I've found it to be to much of a pain to switch setups half way through the season. Having two bows would make a huge difference, but it takes long enough to get everything set up perfect just to have to switch in a couple months...half the times I'm still not ready on opening day. Tryin to keep things really simple this year so I can just concentrate on shooting and not tuning and messing with stuff.


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## N7709K

shoot as if it was tomorrow.. practice good shots and just make those shots in comp

i use one bow for most things.. i just move the sight for which set of arrows i'm shooting.


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## isaacdahl

ahh...I don't really know what to do...don't have much cash right now so I don't want to spend to much. Maybe I'll just try to pick up some slightly used carbon ones and buy some cheap GT xt hunters or st epics for hunting idk.


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## muzzyman1212

You can get st epics cheap right now isaac. I looked again and its the 18th so it is tomorrow.


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## archerykid13

Do I need to teach you to use a calendar Muzzy? Haha jk

Jake


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## N7709K

jake you could teach all of us that, lol i even have trouble


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## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> jake you could teach all of us that, lol i even have trouble


Haha maybe!!


Jake


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## pikemaster

Thanks alot guys. Lots of help. I need to work on shooting constintly time wise. Like shootin 4 seconds one time and 8 the next! Haha


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## N7709K

that makes a big diff and alot of it will come down to release hand position, how the release is held, and how relaxed you are.. take some practice but it makes a huge diff. comp does also


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## muzzyman1212

archerykid13 said:


> Do I need to teach you to use a calendar Muzzy? Haha jk
> 
> Jake


Well maybe it said the 18th first time I looked at it the today I looked and it said the 26th so I was like dang but then I let it refresh and it said the 18th again I refreshed it again and it still said the 18th so im goin tomorrow haha. Im excited


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## isaacdahl

haha, well let's hope that it really is today, lol. Good luck!

Pikemaster...try working on one specific thing at a time instead of trying to copy everything as whole. For example, work on contracting your back muscles for a couple of sessions of blank bailing then move to concentrating on grip for a while...all while blank bailing so your not thinking about anything else. The goal is to get every aspect committed to muscle memory, that way you can concentrate on only one thing once the time comes to shoot some tournaments (for me that would be dialing in on the x). Obviously, it will take a while to get every aspect down, but in the long run it will be the best thing you could do as far as consistency goes.


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## N7709K

It takes a while but not too long, took me 3 weeks to get an entire new style down and pounding x's after I came home from Georgia.... But it took longer for me to get the mental affirmation that it was the correct way to shoot. Whenever you work on form do it at 2-3yds blank bale


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## isaacdahl

B-stinger use 5/16-24 threads for there weights or 1/4-20?


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## N7709K

no idea, some day's i'd shoot for hours upon hours trying to get the reel right.. some of that was in ga at 20yds(went 4hrs and dropped 3 big tens.. hated it cause none of the shots didn't feel good) most was at 8yds in the house getting the feel down and building the routine... which i now have expedited into 3 shorter steps that works for me. Some was at 20yds working on getting the feel correct with a sight picture and getting the relaxed feel.. and some was in comp. 

i actually shoot better shots in comp now than practice which is very good, but its confusing.. i have my hinge set heavy, in comp its a total shot time of between 7-10sec from draw until the shot breaks. In practice its 15-20sec for most shots, its that cold, but in comp with the pressure i pull harder and relax much much more so it becomes perfect to almost too hot. i'm not happy with this but i'll leave it for now and just work on being relaxed in practice.

they ain't 1/4-20, i know that.. not sure what they are tho.. guess i could measure and count threads..


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## isaacdahl

Ok, I see.

Yeah, no problem you don't need to count threads. It's just that I heard they used 5/16-24 but wanted to make sure. I'm gonna turn some weights today and I plan on using 1/4-20" threads but I'd like to buy an 8oz weight some time...will have to go with a different brand; suppose I could use and adapter if I really wanted.


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## N7709K

don't use 1/4-20... nothing runs that for stabilizers.. they are all the larger thread which is the same as what the bushings are tapped for....

getting the shot together isn't about results, i was shooting xxx i/o the second day griv worked with me, its about getting the FEEL down and correct for the shooter. for me i have some small little things that aren't textbook perfect, oh well it don't matter.. just get a feel together and shoot. if you have level and relaxed shoulders, bone on bone contact in your bow arm through your shoulders, stand up straight, and use the "correct" process to fire your release you will shoot better scores and shoot them more often


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## isaacdahl

Actually, 1/4-20 is more standard for weights than 5/16-24. Off hand, I know that's what doinker uses as does a lot of other companies. B-stingers one of the few that doesn't.

Yeah, forms all about what fits the person...for quite a few people, that's not even text book form. I was looking at some pics from vegas the other day and was surprised at how many of the pros lean back slightly...it just screams long dl to a lot of people, but there is no such thing when that's what fits you.


----------



## Sighting In

Doinker uses 1/4" for almost everything, and do does just about everybody else, but they have a few that come in 5/16". I'm almost positive that Stinger uses the 5/16".


----------



## N7709K

hmmm... all the ones i've played with recently use the same size as the stabilizer stud.... but i haven't really played lol... i'd just go with the larger thread, but thats me


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## isaacdahl

Haha, I know what you saying. I'll still probably go with 1/4-20 because I don't feel like refiguring how large to make them so they come out at the weight I want, lol. I'm gonna do a 4,2,1 oz that way I can get everything in between. Once I get a 8oz, I'll be able to do up to 15oz and everything between that. Not that I'll use that much on one stab...will split it up with a side bar.

Just if anyone wants to know...1.25" diameter SS, .2" thick, with 1/4" whole=1oz exactly


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## N7709K

Do 4's and ones... Fours stack much tigress and take out buzz.

360 47i/o today, slowly getting there


----------



## N7709K

wow autocorrect says weird stuff.. the 4's stack tighter than singles or twos so you have a more rigid overall bar

Muzzy, how did the shoot go?


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## muzzyman1212

I did alright my first 5spot round ever. I shot a 293 28x I had one round that I only got 21 on and that killed me then I shot 4 25s in a row which was the last four ends. I am progressively getting better I am having less bad shots with my release. I think if I keep shooting a 300 will come. The guys I shoot with want me to go to the asa in monroe louisiana next weekend the entrie fee is 100 bucks though.


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## N7709K

Just take it as 60 1 shot games and go shot by shot... Not this is one 60 arrow game, now don't screw up. Before you know it you'll be cranking 60's.

I getta start the hard part now which is building up my I/o's. So I'm gonna have to start focusin exponentially more than I am now


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## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Just take it as 60 1 shot games and go shot by shot... Not this is one 60 arrow game, now don't screw up. Before you know it you'll be cranking 60's.
> 
> I getta start the hard part now which is building up my I/o's. So I'm gonna have to start focusin exponentially more than I am now


Yeah when I focus and clear my head just think about having fun I shoot good rounds. If I over think it and start worrying about score then I start tenseing up and having a hard time getting my release to go off then bad shots happen. Whats I/o's?


----------



## outdoorkid1

muzzyman1212 said:


> Yeah when I focus and clear my head just think about having fun I shoot good rounds. If I over think it and start worrying about score then I start tenseing up and having a hard time getting my release to go off then bad shots happen. *Whats I/o's*?


Inside out so its inside the X ring and its not touchin the line.

Nice shooting might go to a 300 today.


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## N7709K

i/o's are what count in a couple of shoots i'm going to for tie breakers.. so i gotta start getting the most of them that i can. in most shoots they don't matter, goes off straight x count and score or combined score if x is 6 (iowa, pressleys, etc)... Lots of pros shoot 23's for indoor nationals because of having to shoot in the shootoff when it goes i/o scoring.

stay relaxed and don't let your shot rhythm get too slowed down... if you do your heart rate will spike and your gonna fight the bow to make a good strong shot


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## outdoorkid1

shot a 300 round today. First NFAA 300 shoot using my hinge. 297 48X's


I did the same thing on all 3 4's and they all went in the same spot.


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## N7709K

did you shoot your way back when you learned your hinge?


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> did you shoot your way back when you learned your hinge?


what do you mean by this? starting shooting a target close and then working farther and farther away?

I pretty much did a ton of blankbailing for about a week and a half and then started aiming at about 3 yards until I could shoot with my pin on a tiny dot on the target then I moved back to about 10 for a few weeks and then I could shoot 20-60 fine.


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## N7709K

steps to learning a hinge as to not instill bad habits:

learn release on a string
learn release on the bow, no sight at 6ft
learn the release on the bow with sight at 6ft
repeat above step at 3yds until the release is very fluid and the feel is correct
repeat at 5yds until the feel is correct and the release is fluid
repeat above moving 1-2yds at a time back to twenty yards, taking as much time at each distance as it takes to have the release and sight picture coherent and you do not hang up on the release aiming at the dot. the time in shot sequence blank baling should be the same when you are shooting for score.

as you work back you will find that at 3 yds, you'll shoot a 30x vegas game... at 5yds, and at 7yds, and at 10yds, and 12yds, and 14yds, and all the way back so when you get to 18-20yds you are used to shooting high scores and know you can and will shoot one.. 20yds is the tough one because your brain says this is where its "for real". if you practice scoring as you work back, since you need to sight in for each distance you will be ahead when it comes to scoring and you won't get to the last end and realize "i'm clean, ok now don't screw this up". you'll just draw, settle in and shoot a strong shot.. and repeat for the rest of the arrows, in comp or practice


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> steps to learning a hinge as to not instill bad habits:
> 
> learn release on a string
> learn release on the bow, no sight at 6ft
> learn the release on the bow with sight at 6ft
> repeat above step at 3yds until the release is very fluid and the feel is correct
> repeat at 5yds until the feel is correct and the release is fluid
> repeat above moving 1-2yds at a time back to twenty yards, taking as much time at each distance as it takes to have the release and sight picture coherent and you do not hang up on the release aiming at the dot. the time in shot sequence blank baling should be the same when you are shooting for score.
> 
> as you work back you will find that at 3 yds, you'll shoot a 30x vegas game... at 5yds, and at 7yds, and at 10yds, and 12yds, and 14yds, and all the way back so when you get to 18-20yds you are used to shooting high scores and know you can and will shoot one.. 20yds is the tough one because your brain says this is where its "for real". if you practice scoring as you work back, since you need to sight in for each distance you will be ahead when it comes to scoring and you won't get to the last end and realize "i'm clean, ok now don't screw this up". you'll just draw, settle in and shoot a strong shot.. and repeat for the rest of the arrows, in comp or practice


Thanks for the advice. I'll do this. When I dropped my 4's every one of them was low and to the right in the blue. I would be aiming in the center and pulling with my back muscles and it wouldn't go off and my pin would drop down and me peep sight would come off of center and then it would go off low and to the right. I tried letting down when it did this but when I would come to full draw the next time it would do almost the same thing. I think I just need to blankbail more.


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## N7709K

low left misses come from pushing too hard through the shot(righty) and not relaxing your release had so the release hangs. you can pull and pull all you want but if you don't relax it will hang... same for the thumb peg, but thats a little diff story


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## outdoorkid1

ya when it wouldn't go off it seemed my muscles in my hand were tense and not relaxed. I missed low because my pin dropped down and I think I was missing right because when I would keep pulling it was moving my peep off from around the scope housing.


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## N7709K

if you pull too hard or dl is long you can hit right based off of that.. every right handed shooter has a low left miss at one point in their game.. be it major or minor.. i do and i know lots of others that do


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## outdoorkid1

just shot a 300 with 30X..........................at 5 yards


Going to 7 :RockOn:


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## N7709K

were they 30 prefect shots?


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> were they 30 prefect shots?


they all felt great!

didn't have any hang up and they all fired flawlessly.


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## N7709K

thats what shooting back is about.. getting the feel of the release going off perfectly while aiming and shooting perfect scores... its not about score as it is about getting the sight and release to work together


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## N7709K

well it happened again.. this time it wasn't just a bad rep, so its much easier to take... second ve+ showed up


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## isaacdahl

Huh? Confused^^^Bad rep? Kinda slow today.

Were you never able to find a riser so you just got new?


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## N7709K

thats how i got the ae.. the rep somehow messed up the shooter bow order and shipped the ae 5 months after we canceled...

never looked for a riser new or used.. was pricing things, they put an order in.. canceled... then it shipped anyway


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## isaacdahl

So you keeping it then?


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## N7709K

Dropped a big chunk o change for it so... Yeah she'll stay... Means the AE has to go, so Kim doesn't get that


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## archerykid13

How much for the AE Jacob?

Jake


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## N7709K

800-900$... Depends right now it's got #1's on it but it has #3's also... But the strings are the catch


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## archerykid13

Dang. I dont got 800.

Jake


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## muzzyman1212

Well my mom said I can probably go to my first asa! Im pumped but first I gotta fletch some of my fatboys with blazer x2s and get my bow down to 280. I could turn it down another 5lbs. Im gonna go to the shop tomorrow and try to get it down to 280 I cant aford new arrows with the entrie fees, gas, and whatnot.


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## N7709K

When does your supra come in? If it's before with a couple weeks of time I'd run your supra. 280 may be tough to hit and keep your invasion shooting good. 

Should be a fun time tho


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## muzzyman1212

It will be the end of the week before the supra comes in unless I pay the difference to overnight it.


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## muzzyman1212

Does anyone know the rules on a bow for young adult male class. Besides that it has to be less than 280.


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## N7709K

prob depends on class.. hit up dylan(12ringshooter) he'll know


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## muzzyman1212

Well we arent goin anymore so maybe next year ill go with my supra. I really wanna go to the rinhart r-100 that is 6hours away this year.


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## N7709K

which r100?

here is the start of the new one, keep in mind the stabs and sight/scope are from my other one and wont be staying on this one... not sure what spec is but it feels the same and has same poi as the other one... i can go out on a limb and say 29" 58lbs..


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## isaacdahl

Diggin the blue fusion, Jake...looks really good!

What kinda scope you runnin on your ax3000?


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

muzzyman1212 said:


> Well we arent goin anymore so maybe next year ill go with my supra. I really wanna go to the rinhart r-100 that is 6hours away this year.


Probably one of the funnest shoots you can attend! has a big shoot feel though they are for fun, plenty of Novelty shoots. we traveled 3.5 hours last summer and shot 50 on the african side..good time for sure. shooting all 100 this coming summer.


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## muzzyman1212

It lools sweet the closest one to me is in coulmbia missouri which is still 6hours away. But I might try to go if i can get some people to go and split the gas and what not.


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## underdog145

Man, I remember back in the day when I was still in the 3-D game. The R-100 was definitely one of my favorite shoots to go to. If you get a chance, do your best to make it to one and be sure to shoot all 100 if you can. It can be a marathon, but it is more than worth it.


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## isaacdahl

What are the equipment rule for the r100? Will I get pushed out of hunters class with a side bar-even if it's under 12"?


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## N7709K

Lexan Truespot housing, for indoors it doesn't make that much diff unless your at a very dark range. For outdoors is where it becomes nice


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## N7709K

adam can vouch first hand as for this.. as he's seen it happen, lol

so I got that new bow in. decided i own it might as well shoot it, right? so i put on a TT SS 1 hole with a custom blade, and the adjustable stinger vblock i have.... put a peep in, timed the cams, set the lean i like, put on a loop.. been windy so i couldn't really see how she does.

shot this tonight, haven't shot a group like this right out the box ever. This is the first 6 arrows at 50yds after sighting in. there are 5 and a flyer which i knew was gonna be off a little... aint too bad for an eyeballed rest , right adam?


----------



## outdoorkid1

Does anyone know how to put a lanyard on a tru ball tru tension without having to buy the V-lock lanyard? Mine has the tru ball stickers on the sides and I pulled them off and it just looks like its a flat shelf on both sides.


heres a pic of what I'm wanting to do.


----------



## N7709K

you basically need the truball strap, they have two tabs that drop into and lock with those slots under the stickers.. i'll dig one of mine out and get pics here in a bit


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> you basically need the truball strap, they have two tabs that drop into and lock with those slots under the stickers.. i'll dig one of mine out and get pics here in a bit


ok thanks


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## N7709K

here you go


----------



## outdoorkid1

thanks alot.

Been shooting vegas 300s and workin my way back. Got a 300 with 29x at 10 yards. It really makes me focus harder and overall makes me have a steadier hold and better shot.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

isaacdahl said:


> What are the equipment rule for the r100? Will I get pushed out of hunters class with a side bar-even if it's under 12"?


If your 17 and under its shoot what you brung at the R100, I was surprised at how many good shooters were at the R100 , dont take it to serious its a fun shoot, i seen people with range finders and im betting they turned in cards, I had a kid next to me before the iron buck contest telling me he shot like 80 something up and low and behold on his side a Rangefinder lol!! kid couldnt hit a tennis ball at 20 yard at the practice range, so im betting he was pushing the pencil. I shot in the Youth class because there were a few kids that i knew who they were and there good so i wanted to see how it turned out, I shot from the Open (far stake) and shot pretty good, they dont set the courses to difficult.


----------



## N7709K

new bow really likes these injexion.. it kinda sucks that i gotta change strings and rest, but oh well... been shooting a 3" or less 6 arrow group at 50yds all day


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> new bow really likes these injexion.. it kinda sucks that i gotta change strings and rest, but oh well... been shooting a 3" or less 6 arrow group at 50yds all day


Nice shooting Jacob!!!

Jake


----------



## muzzyman1212

Supra should be here friday im gonna either put a limbdriver or a blade on it. It will be for 3d and spots and I dont know what thickness of blade I need and all that stuff.


----------



## N7709K

Blade 100%


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Blade 100%


Alright ill call up at the shop and see if they have any if not ill order one. What brade you recomend thats not to pricy trophy taker spring steel?


----------



## Sighting In

Trophy Takers are built like tanks. But in all honesty, a blade is a blade. Some have micro adjust, some have angle adjustment, but over all, it's pretty much the same thing.


----------



## N7709K

The tt ss are great for the price, what I'm running on the backup bow currently and it flat out shoots... But I prefer a pro tuner. The micro adjust has spoiled me along with their blades.


When you get one, drop me a pm and I'll help ya set it up


----------



## underdog145

Ive got a few tricks when it comes to settin up blade rests as well. Let either of us know.


----------



## archerykid13

Im going to be using a AAE Freakshow when I get my spots bow setup.

Jake


----------



## isaacdahl

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> If your 17 and under its shoot what you brung at the R100, I was surprised at how many good shooters were at the R100 , dont take it to serious its a fun shoot, i seen people with range finders and im betting they turned in cards, I had a kid next to me before the iron buck contest telling me he shot like 80 something up and low and behold on his side a Rangefinder lol!! kid couldnt hit a tennis ball at 20 yard at the practice range, so im betting he was pushing the pencil. I shot in the Youth class because there were a few kids that i knew who they were and there good so i wanted to see how it turned out, I shot from the Open (far stake) and shot pretty good, they dont set the courses to difficult.


Ok, thanks for the help Dillan.

Maybe I'll try to make it to the one in Indiana this summer.


----------



## archerykid13

I should be at the one in Indiana this year Isaac. Maybe we can meet up.

Jake


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, that'd be cool...just don't show me up to bad lol jk


----------



## corpralbarn

Wow... where have i been the whole time this thread has been here? lol


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## isaacdahl

^^haha^^ it's only 22 pages long:wink:


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> The tt ss are great for the price, what I'm running on the backup bow currently and it flat out shoots... But I prefer a pro tuner. The micro adjust has spoiled me along with their blades.
> 
> 
> When you get one, drop me a pm and I'll help ya set it up


Thanks I was lookin at the trophy taker spring steel 2 micro adjust but is it worth the extra 10bucks for the pro model. The only difference is that you can adjust the blade angle on the pro. I still dont know what thickness of blade to get I went on lancaster and looked at them. Also whats the difference between the short and long and should I get a narrow or a wide v. I will be shooting fatboys with 4" feathers at a right helical with a little offset and for 3d fatboys with blazer x2s with right helical.


----------



## N7709K

Get a narrow .008 and a narrow .010 blade... Depending on the angle. Changing angle matters so it's nice but not needed, I don't have it on mine and it shoots just fine. 

I'd get the micro, it helps. When you tweak groups at long range it's very nice to have.


----------



## Sighting In

underdog145 said:


> Ive got a few tricks when it comes to settin up blade rests as well. Let either of us know.


Dude, I want to know. lol


----------



## N7709K

haha, hows that rest working for ya? what you hear from spot hogg bout the other?


----------



## muzzyman1212

Well I ordered the pro so I can adjust the angle if I need to. I got the narrow v.


----------



## N7709K

what stiffness of blade did you get? 

Blades are very easy to setup and get to shoot good, just gotta do a bit of shooting during the setup


----------



## muzzyman1212

I got a .008 my fatboys are pretty light so it should be fine.


----------



## Sighting In

TT still shooting great. I ended up moving it just a tad left since Vegas cause I was grouping right with it. Spot Hogg said they'd get it fixed for me. Just need to get it shipped out.


----------



## muzzyman1212

What do I need to look for to make sure it is stiff enough.


----------



## N7709K

Groups, sound... An 8 will be fine I run a ten for everything, granted I use a backer for most, it shoots anything from a 340gr lightspeed to a 720gr 2712


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## N7709K

adam, you'll probably find that it needs to be moves one way or the other when you move outdoors to get the best groups.


----------



## underdog145

An .008 is more than enough. Especially for fatboys. Heck, I run an .008 for everything. Even my 27s. I just put a backer blade on. All i do is take a .010 and cut off the top 1/3 of the blade and use that for the backer. For outdoors, i just flip them around so that the .010 is on top as a kicker blade to keep the primary blade from kickin up on a bad shot and smackin the back of the arrow as it's leavin the bow. 

There are a million ways to set up a blade. The biggest thing is to just not be afraid to experiment. If you find a set up that works, write it down, but keep lookin for something even better. 

I would recommend using the LAS brand blades for your TT as they are just straight steel, instead of having the coating on them the way the Dave's Best do. With the LAS ones, if you get a .008, it actually measures .008 instead of acting like a .010.


----------



## Sighting In

Never heard of that one before. How much testing have you done with it? You noticed a real difference in groups? The concept makes a lot of sense to me. Hmm....


----------



## isaacdahl

Jake, I forgot to ask...are those the a/c or regular injexions? Also, do you know what the id of the shaft is?


----------



## N7709K

How you cut down those blades bridger?

just reg injexion, same id as acg's... But I don't remember off the top of my head


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, thanks. So you should be able to use acg components then right?


----------



## N7709K

yes and no.. pins yes tips no


----------



## muzzyman1212

She came in today now I just gotta take it up and get the DL right and get my other rest on there when I get it. I just put a bisket on there for now.


----------



## isaacdahl

Looks really nice muzzyman! Are the sight and stab off your Invasion or are they new?


----------



## N7709K

what are you running for a d-loop? did it come with one?


----------



## outdoorkid1

nice how is it?


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah guys thats the stuff off my invasion for now till I get a target sight and stabs. The d loop came on it.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Its nice I really like the cams but I cant get a good feel for it till I get the right DL and the peep is about and inch low so other than that it feels good its fast! Its at 60 but it feels as smooth as my invasion at 55.


----------



## N7709K

when you setup the blade you may wanna change the loop so you can play with nock point a bit easier...


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> when you setup the blade you may wanna change the loop so you can play with nock point a bit easier...


Yeah dylan was telling me I should put nock point between my loop. Would a tourqeless loop be better.


----------



## N7709K

you can, it won't make that big of a diff if you make sure your loop is done right. I used to shoot a reg d-loop and it shot good scores and groups without some serving tied in between the knots. I've gone to torqueless on all of my rigs now, for ease of use and just for the durability. They are a love hate thing... you either like them or you dont. they will change some stuff, sight marks, possibly anchor... for 20yds and spots you'll be hard pressed to see a benefit withone, its 20 yds.. when you go outside you can start to play around and see if they help.

if you are going to be shooting g nocks or other smaller nocks it really doesn't matter as long as you leave a little room... when you shoot say super nocks or that such you will see a larger impact.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

muzzyman1212 said:


> View attachment 1297186
> 
> She came in today now I just gotta take it up and get the DL right and get my other rest on there when I get it. I just put a bisket on there for now.


Sweet!!! They do draw smooth, nice even pull all the way back, our buddy at the shop is shooting one and just went with Bstingers and he says its the best shooting bow hes ever shot and he has owned just about every brand..and hes a heck of a shot, hes got a dominator 3d coming which will probably be sold..


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah this thing is super smooth and it holds like a rock. It came at 29" draw and thats what I have been shooting it at and it feels really good so I had my mom take a picture what do you think.


----------



## archerykid13

It looks pretty good to me muzzy. It looks like everything is inline.

Jake


----------



## muzzyman1212

Yeah I think its better form than I ever had with my 27.5" draw.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

muzzyman1212 said:


> Yeah this thing is super smooth and it holds like a rock. It came at 29" draw and thats what I have been shooting it at and it feels really good so I had my mom take a picture what do you think.
> View attachment 1297853


Touch to long, when your at the shop experiment with 28 and 28.5 see what feels better, as jacob stated you dont need tied in nock sets...there not needed, but they do help. its always nice knowing where your nock point is on the string if you ever need to make a quick loop change and they do help with nock pinch, if you ever need to adjust nock point they do move on the string, i never had to move the nock points yet, I just make adjustments at the rest, are torqless better? who knows...it hasnt been proven yet.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

muzzyman1212 said:


> Yeah I think its better form than I ever had with my 27.5" draw.


What looks and feels are 2 different things, really i would go down to 28.5, your bow arm looks real straight, when i got my first XLR i was stretched out bad, I have grown into it and am close to going up a 1/2 " in draw...tough to go off pictures, better to go off feel (yours) there is no perfect form really.


----------



## underdog145

N7709K said:


> How you cut down those blades bridger?


I just cut them off with my arrow saw. You can use just about anything tho. Wire cutters, dremel tool. Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## isaacdahl

Muzzy,
I'd personally be leery of jumping from 27.5 to 29. What do you measure out to be? Wingspan(inches)/2.5 usually gets me to the right mod and post setting though it's not perfect. From there I'll tweak it according to sight pattern and what feels good back tension wise. Play around a little before you commit to what draw length...I know that if I shoot a longer DL for a few rounds, it may feel alright, but I'll start having problems with bt and holding the bow steady. So just play around with different dl for a few days and you'll eventually find the where you need to be.


----------



## N7709K

its long now, buy a bit.. but it may also be that the way you have the bow set for peep height and how you anchor make it seem long. 

I'd wait to change dl until you have the peep finalized and have the loop set where you want it. After that i'd play around with dl and you may find that you need 28.25 or 28.375" type deal. I'm a 29" on the dot, so for some bows i'll order 29" some i'll order 28.5" due to cams running long or the geometry of the bow.

biggest tell tale sign is sight picture


----------



## N7709K

lots of guys are running torquless or have both knots of the loop tied below the arrows, Willet shoots like this and look how his fita season went....


----------



## N7709K

Cranked another 60x today, felt ok but I/o are lacking.... Got my work cut out for me in some upcoming shoots. Gotta get my pro card coming too

Got some new arrows coming, got strings en route for the new hotness, gotta get stabs and a rest still tho... And of course a second ax3000


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> Cranked another 60x today, felt ok but I/o are lacking.... Got my work cut out for me in some upcoming shoots. Gotta get my pro card coming too
> 
> Got some new arrows coming, got strings en route for the new hotness, gotta get stabs and a rest still tho... And of course a second ax3000


pricey stuff


----------



## muzzyman1212

Well guys I hung out at the shop today for a while and that always cost me. Haha but I lowered my draw to 28.5 and it feels great im gonna shoot it like that for a while and see how it goes I might go shorter but right now it feels good. So back to the spending money part my rest is coming in and im gonna buy some carbon express cxls for my supra (I can get a good deal). My fatboys are to short now so I have a dozen for sale half have 4" feather other are unfletched cut 26.5 from nock grove to end of carbon. They havent been shot much. I will be pushin 300 with the cxls im either gonna fletch them with gateway razr fethers or blazer x2s for 3d.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

muzzyman1212 said:


> Well guys I hung out at the shop today for a while and that always cost me. Haha but I lowered my draw to 28.5 and it feels great im gonna shoot it like that for a while and see how it goes I might go shorter but right now it feels good. So back to the spending money part my rest is coming in and im gonna buy some carbon express cxls for my supra (I can get a good deal). My fatboys are to short now so I have a dozen for sale half have 4" feather other are unfletched cut 26.5 from nock grove to end of carbon. They havent been shot much. I will be pushin 300 with the cxls im either gonna fletch them with gateway razr fethers or blazer x2s for 3d.


CXLs are great arrows. im really liking the X2s alot. never was a blazer fan till I tried them and I wont be shooting anything else.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> lots of guys are running torquless or have both knots of the loop tied below the arrows, Willet shoots like this and look how his fita season went....


Yeah and alot of guys shoot regular dloops and shoot 60X and alot of guys shoot good fita scores and tear up 3d courses with regular dloops...just saying.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Well ive got some blazer x2s but a guy told me those razr feathers fly even better than the blazer x2s. Of course thats his opinion but I do like feathers. I dont know if the feathers would have any benifit over the blazers though besides being lighter.


----------



## N7709K

Not really, especially for outdoor. I got some x2's a while back to play with and they were very nice for larger shafts. What I went to now as far as arrows go takes a smaller vane to get the best results out past 40-50yds. 

As far as loops go, As long as your consistent it doesn't matter what you do. Reg d-loops work, 98% of people shoot them and for the most part shoot them well. Torqueless are just single point and they help on the not perfect shots where the angle of your hand in relation to your face is different causing rotation to the loop. The wider you space your knots on a d-loop the less effect they will have on the arrow should you change the hand position of a shot. At 20yds you won't notice, probably won't notice at 30yds either, it's at longe range that you see the added forgiveness. 

You can tie d-loops so that they are offset and sit like "/" "\" insteada like "|". That helps along with the nocks you use. Shorter groove will have less pinch


----------



## Sighting In

Well, my indoor season is officially over. Come Monday, I'm putting on my new strings (long overdue, been shooting the same set practically for a year now) and setting up my good old ACGs. I'm excited to see how the new 8190 material holds up. Talking to everybody, it sounds promising.


----------



## N7709K

your strings didn't look bad, atleast from what I saw.. they still stayed in time right? 

When vanes show up I can get to tuning my outdoor rig for the year *cough* *cough* send them already Aaron *cough*, lol just givin ya a hard time. So the new ve+ came in, got it setup and timed the same, but it draws 4-5lbs over what the other one is.. with these strings. So i haven't really done much other than just shoot it and see what happens.

gonna go shoot some indoor scores with it tuesday


----------



## corpralbarn

You guys think i could put Doinker 421s on my Postens?


----------



## Sighting In

corpralbarn said:


> You guys think i could put Doinker 421s on my Postens?


They have 1/4" threading, which is pretty standard for just about everything but the Singers. If Postens have the same size, then yes, no problem. 

To be honest, Jacob, only the control cable was from my original set. I had to replace my string a few months back because I didn't have serving where it hit my arm guard and it got chewed up. Lesson learned. Then about a few weeks ago we noticed my buss cable had some cut stands, so I had to put on an old yellow cable we had lying around the shop. lol But yah, it didn't have any timing issues at all. They all held up well accept when cut, but they're worn and time for a new set.


----------



## N7709K

oh ok, thats good.

So i decided on how each of my bows will be setup and shot accordingly.. now to make that happen


----------



## isaacdahl

Whatcha thinkin Jake? You gonna set one up for 3d and one for field/fita type stuff?


----------



## super*

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> Yeah and alot of guys shoot regular dloops and shoot 60X and alot of guys shoot good fita scores and tear up 3d courses with regular dloops...just saying.


HAHA reminds me of knock pinching still havnt fixed that.......


----------



## Mathewsju

underdog145 said:


> An .008 is more than enough. Especially for fatboys. Heck, I run an .008 for everything. Even my 27s. I just put a backer blade on. All i do is take a .010 and cut off the top 1/3 of the blade and use that for the backer. For outdoors, i just flip them around so that the .010 is on top as a kicker blade to keep the primary blade from kickin up on a bad shot and smackin the back of the arrow as it's leavin the bow.
> 
> There are a million ways to set up a blade. The biggest thing is to just not be afraid to experiment. If you find a set up that works, write it down, but keep lookin for something even better.
> 
> I would recommend using the LAS brand blades for your TT as they are just straight steel, instead of having the coating on them the way the Dave's Best do. With the LAS ones, if you get a .008, it actually measures .008 instead of acting like a .010.


Think you could put up a pic Bridger? I think I'm getting what you are saying but not 100% sure...

It sounds like for indoors you shot an 8 with a 10 cut off underneath it and outdoors you shoot an 8 with a 10 cut off but off on top?


----------



## Mathewsju

Dang, I just realized it took me a solid 3 months to actually post on this thread haha

On another note: To those shooting 2315s (Jake) what are your setups? I have a set of 23s and 27s and for a while the 23s shot better, but last week I couldn't group on a vegas to save my life (eh shots were mid 9 instead of half shaft 10s). So I went to my 27s at 30" with 300 gr points and boy did they fly better...I may have to try my other 27s at 32" this coming week and see which of the 27s shoot better.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> Dang, I just realized it took me a solid 3 months to actually post on this thread haha
> 
> On another note: To those shooting 2315s (Jake) what are your setups? I have a set of 23s and 27s and for a while the 23s shot better, but last week I couldn't group on a vegas to save my life (eh shots were mid 9 instead of half shaft 10s). So I went to my 27s at 30" with 300 gr points and boy did they fly better...I may have to try my other 27s at 32" this coming week and see which of the 27s shoot better.


Spin your arrows, my 27s went to crap, one week i shoot 57 practice a few times go to score and my target looked like shotgun hit it!,spun my 6 27s 4 of them wobbled like crazy! got some new ones and they flew decent. shooting aluminums should have a arrow spinner. noticed the guys at one club shooting aluminums are always checking there arrows.


----------



## Mathewsju

Checked all my arrows the end of January and haven't shot my 23s since I checked them, except for a maybe 100 arrows. I don't think they're bent, it wasn't a particular arrow or a few, it was all of them consistently just not being forgiving like they were


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> Checked all my arrows the end of January and haven't shot my 23s since I checked them, except for a maybe 100 arrows. I don't think they're bent, it wasn't a particular arrow or a few, it was all of them consistently just not being forgiving like they were


Well mine shot 1 week real good, i practiced a couple of times and then shot into some new Block targets and they just got bad and wouldnt fly? just what happend to me, whats different on the bow now from when they did fly good?


----------



## Mathewsju

Honestly, not a thing. Played with stab weights a little bit but that wouldn't be the reason, at least not to this extent


----------



## N7709K

pull the nocks put new nocks in all of them and then start playing. i'm running just 23's from here on out unless i go to GT. 31" 100gr tips micro lites and 3" diamond vanes, they pound. tried 200's, they shot 300's but low x count

i shot 27's for a week and killed a half doz on bales, said piss on it and went back to 23's 100%. More consistent scores, better groups, and they last way better.

if your timing is the same then its prob arrows. pull nocks first as taht can make a big issue


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> Honestly, not a thing. Played with stab weights a little bit but that wouldn't be the reason, at least not to this extent



Did Bob do your strings and time the cams? you got new strings after he tuned the bow the first time and it was shooting good before the new strings? wonder if its a cam timing issue?


----------



## N7709K

if the forgiveness was gone that can be stabilizers depending on what you did.. if you bumped up the weight on the end of the main that can cause the groups to open up (harder push, too hard of a pull, etc). Not likely but it can have an effect on groups.

unless your cams are way out of time they should still shoot good, like 55x or better blue face good


----------



## underdog145

Mathewsju said:


> Think you could put up a pic Bridger? I think I'm getting what you are saying but not 100% sure...
> 
> It sounds like for indoors you shot an 8 with a 10 cut off underneath it and outdoors you shoot an 8 with a 10 cut off but off on top?


Not able to right now, but i will do my best to get something posted tonight. I'll take a picture of both, one with a backer blade and one with a kicker blade.


----------



## archerykid13

underdog145 said:


> Not able to right now, but i will do my best to get something posted tonight. I'll take a picture of both, one with a backer blade and one with a kicker blade.


Sounds good Bridger. Im interested in it too.

Jake


----------



## isaacdahl

What v-bar brackets and side bars should I stay away from when it come to doinker and b-stinger?


----------



## Sighting In

isaacdahl said:


> What v-bar brackets and side bars should I stay away from when it come to doinker and b-stinger?


None of them... They all work fine. Don't know of any that don't work. But, I would 100% spend the money on something adjustable. If you don't you'll regret it.


----------



## Mathewsju

Sighting In said:


> None of them... They all work fine. Don't know of any that don't work. But, I would 100% spend the money on something adjustable. If you don't you'll regret it.


+1 personally I love the Bstinger side mount/adjustable vbar. Super durable I even used it when I shot carbon blades instead of the carbon blade side bar


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, I'll be going with something adjustable for sure...I already have a billy bar but don't care for it since I can't change anything.

I figured since I'm only going 10-12" I can't go wrong with any from either company. As for sidebars, I've just heard of some breaking, or letting loose because of poor design, or to much weight.


----------



## N7709K

Brackets? The stingers are both solid and won't break, havent played with double in a while


----------



## isaacdahl

^^My bad...meant to say brackets. 

I'm trying to trade my sword titan for a sidebar and bracket right now so I guess we'll see what happens.


----------



## N7709K

i'd just sell the sight and buy one.. never know what's up with a used one

the strong arm isn't as adjustable as the adjustable block, but its fool proof. You have in and out and a bit of up an down. 

I'm gonna get in contact with a friend who knows a trick to mounting a single back setup off the lower hole on hoyts and am gonna rig one of mine like that to test


----------



## Sighting In

N7709K said:


> i'd just sell the sight and buy one.. never know what's up with a used one
> 
> the strong arm isn't as adjustable as the adjustable block, but its fool proof. You have in and out and a bit of up an down.
> 
> I'm gonna get in contact with a friend who knows a trick to mounting a single back setup off the lower hole on hoyts and am gonna rig one of mine like that to test


I got mine to work that way, but I had to use a lock washer and scratched the paint on my CE. If you can find a way where I don't need to do that, let me know.


----------



## underdog145

If you are gonna get one, get the double bstinger one. By far the most adjustment and the most solid. unlike the strong ARM, you can adjust how far out you want your back bar, then what elevation, each without changing the other. Just take off the side you don't use. And if you want, you can throw it on there and try a double bar set up.


----------



## Mathewsju

N7709K said:


> i'd just sell the sight and buy one.. never know what's up with a used one
> 
> the strong arm isn't as adjustable as the adjustable block, but its fool proof. You have in and out and a bit of up an down.
> 
> I'm gonna get in contact with a friend who knows a trick to mounting a single back setup off the lower hole on hoyts and am gonna rig one of mine like that to test


Let me know how that goes. Curious to see if you need more or less weight down low. 

PS I've got my side bar running off the rear mount and its holding just fine. All I did was go to the hardware store and get a 1/4 - 20 thread and a 1/4" washer


----------



## isaacdahl

I have 2 offers so far... one for a 2 week old 12" b-stinger (don't know what model yet but he's gonna send me some pics) along with a side bar mount (probably the strong arm but I'll see in the pics). 

The other is a 12" carbon blade and my choice of either bernies side bar or a doinker mount of some sort (don't remember at the time).

The stingers looking the best so far but I'll wait to see pics first.


----------



## N7709K

ok, i've run them low before and they have been so so.. i want one that actually works for good.. so i'm gonna drop greg a message and see what he and jesse do to get there to work


----------



## underdog145

I know for a fact that Jesse drills and taps his out to fit a 5/16 bolt with fine threads. Then he roughens up the finish a little bit around it on his bow in order to give it something to grab on to.


----------



## Sighting In

underdog145 said:


> I know for a fact that Jesse drills and taps his out to fit a 5/16 bolt with fine threads. Then he roughens up the finish a little bit around it on his bow in order to give it something to grab on to.


I've heard that too, but I know I won't be doing that. Voids the warranty, and I'm not convinced it's worth it. Plus, I don't have access to taping equipment. lol


----------



## Mathewsju

I would maybe suggest using a thin piece of rubber/something else that grips well to metal in between the the riser and mount. Should also work like same as a locknut, without the scratches


----------



## N7709K

Knew they drilled them, roughed the surface etc didn't know they tapped them. I'll see what Greg says because I know there was a reason they had to drill them larger... Wanna say it was ammound of weight on the bar but I don't remember.

I can make something work now, I have on diff bows, but I'm gonna ask the master if you will ad get his take..


----------



## Sighting In

Doinker now makes a mount just for this purpose, btw. I don't have one, but it's designed to fit in the bottom hole without altering the bow.


----------



## N7709K

i have no problem drilling it out.. and adam i can't really use that one anyway... 

oh well, we'll see what happens when the new bars show up


----------



## isaacdahl

Are they shipping the premiere plus's yet? LAS only sells the black and honeycomb design but it says the black/silver and blackout won't ship till march...doesn't make sense if they're the same besides finishes.


----------



## N7709K

las does sell them, maybe no online.. at all the shows they (stinger) directs people to las if they want to buy product at the show.

give 805-440-9934 a call and talk to Jeff, he can set you up with whatever you want. He can also get you incontact with who does their wraps and you can get custom honeycomb ones


----------



## Mathewsju

isaacdahl said:


> Are they shipping the premiere plus's yet? LAS only sells the black and honeycomb design but it says the black/silver and blackout won't ship till march...doesn't make sense if they're the same besides finishes.


go to www.southshorearcherysupply.com

They sell the Premier Pluses factory direct from Bstinger, and they are a good bit cheaper than LAS. I just got my Premier Pluses Monday and they are black and silver


----------



## N7709K

My current set is blackout, they ship now.. the honeycomb ones are shipping too, they have shipped chrome/black for atleast a year...


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok thanks. I thought about south shore (they're shipping times always been real fast) except they don't have sidebars so I'll probably just give my local shop some biz and order from there.

You know how much a custom wrap costs for a 12" premiere+ Jake?


----------



## Mathewsju

isaacdahl said:


> Ok thanks. I thought about south shore (they're shipping times always been real fast) except they don't have sidebars so I'll probably just give my local shop some biz and order from there.
> 
> You know how much a custom wrap costs for a 12" premiere+ Jake?


They do have sidebars. Their ordering system is strange...you click on the main rod you want and if you scroll down the page, there are options to add the corresponding side rod(s), weights and brackets


----------



## isaacdahl

Huh, I'll have to give them another look than. Thanks for the hint!


----------



## isaacdahl

Wow, they are crazy cheap compared to LAS!


----------



## N7709K

Have to get intouch with Sam on that one. She does that and can give a quote. They aren't done in-house at Bstinger.

When you get weights get the number you think you need and then like double it, really. Plan on a min of 24oz or more


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, thanks Jake. Yeah, I'll probably just get them from SSA so they're probably will be no chance for a custom wrap so it's cool. I'll just give her a call if I decide to go that route.

I'm thinking I'll try 8oz out front and 7oz on the back to start, but I'll machine a few more weights than what I think I'll need just in case.


----------



## Mathewsju

Either machine your own or go on LAS and look up x spot stabilizer weights. They come in 3, 5, 8, and 12 oz stainless weights with a 5/16-24 male end and 5/16-24 female end. If you're going to get weights, that's what I would recommend...they are cheaper and you can hit any weight combo you want with those if you have 4 or 5 1 oz weights (you get 3 1 oz weights with a stinger main rod) and a variety of the x spots


----------



## N7709K

your gonna fight 8 and 7.. just so ya know.. i fight 11 and 18 at some times..

the wraps can be put on anytime.. and if you got custom would have to be put on later anyways, unless you went direct from stinger. if you didn't get the honeycomb ones you can add a wrap anytime from several places (custommadewraps has them too).

i started with 21oz i think and in 3 days i was on the phone ordering more weights


----------



## N7709K

played with the new bow today at 20yds.. shot a pair of blue face games... first one went pretty bad, tweak some stuff as it went played with spec, dw, holding weight.. got it set at something i can live with until this weekend and shot a second game.. picked up a 60 with 50ish i/o's so it shoots good. couple lbs higher holding weight so it was hard to shoot relaxed shots


----------



## isaacdahl

What's good starting point for weights when it comes to bhfs?


----------



## N7709K

What bow? Draw weight? Letoff/holding weight? Draw length? Bar length and angle to the bars? Type of release? Type of shooter?


----------



## isaacdahl

'09 Sentinel, 62lbs, letoff I'm not sure of but according to my post setting it should be around 65%, 27.5", 12" front bar 10" side, hinge, aggressive


----------



## N7709K

if the hinge is set cold you need more weight than if its hot.. 

but start with 6oz on the main and 8oz on the back to get a base line.. the pin will move and probably wanna slowly dip low on you. before you worry about back weight add an ounce at a time to the main until you no longer have left/right misses. then add an ounce at a time until you pin sits on the dot.. at this point take the last ounce you put on the back off and shoot some scores. 

you need to see how the bow feels, are you fighting the release? can you not relax your hand without a premature fire? if you get too soon of a fire you may need to set the release heavier or remove weight from the stabilizers. if you really really have to pull hard into the release you may need to add mass weight or set the release lighter... when you first start unless you have tuned stabilizers a few times and know what the bars need to have happen.. you need to shoot some scores watch groups and play around to get the best feel


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks Jake...once everything gets here and I have all my weights machined, I'll start playing around.


----------



## N7709K

@ josh, there is no possible way to get a 1/4-20 bolt to work for my setup.. i reefed the hell outta it and it still swings, lol.. so it looks like i'm gonna be doing some mods. Got an email into Jesse about how he does his.

that said, it shoots awesome with it on the lower hole


----------



## Mathewsju

hmm interesting. do you notice a difference in the amount of weight you need on your back bar?


----------



## N7709K

here's what i've found in the 10min i played with one.

your CoG is much much lower, this is good but also has its effects on how the bars balance out the bow. the lower down the bar the more impact that any distance out from the bow becomes. So for me i have a slight angle down and back from the lower hole. at rest it wants to cant pretty hard to the left side. at full draw there is only a tiny bit of cant and that is normal, i cant the bow. with the weight down that far you lose leverage so it feels as if you are running less weight for the BALANCE of the bow. The feel and sight picture show that the bow has the same amount of weight and you need not add more. 

if you start playing with the weights a whole bunch you will have to play with other things to compensate for the changes


----------



## super*

Mathewsju said:


> Let me know how that goes. Curious to see if you need more or less weight down low.
> 
> PS I've got my side bar running off the rear mount and its holding just fine. All I did was go to the hardware store and get a 1/4 - 20 thread and a 1/4" washer


Why do you think i run my bars down low?????? and angle down????


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

super* said:


> Why do you think i run my bars down low?????? and angle down????


lower center of gravity and more resistance!! allows for a little more aggressive shot and not as much float with little amount of front weight as possible? haha


----------



## underdog145

I tried having mine set down lower and I can't bring myself to do it. If I keep the weight I have now and angle everything down or mount it lower, it starts to feel too heavy. But if i take it off, I can't get it to hold correctly because of my holding weight to mass weight ratio, even tho the bow feels much heavier. 

For now, I'm sticking with my 18 oz out front and 24 oz out the back. Haha.


----------



## Mathewsju

Ok so last night I tried the bstingers out, along with mounting my side bar down low...

Stingers - They hold great, always have. Still need a little more time to play with weights, but wow, definitely had alot more pin wheels and even not so great shots were still i/o's. Its also nice that the bars are less than half the weight of the carbon blade bars so I can add more weight to the tips and keep the same mass weight. Right now I've got 10.5 on the front and 23 on the back...probably tweak it later and add another oz or two to the front.

Side bar - Mounting it down low definitely felt different. It does help alot with cant, but since I have such a strong natural cant, I found my sight picture moving more bc I was fighting the increased leverage so much. I noticed that the overall balance of the bow shifted way to the right (I'm a lefty) and also forward. I used electrical tape between the mount and the riser and it seemed to give me enough grip to stop the bar from sliding around, although if you bumped the end of the bar it did still move. Interesting experiment but I'm going stick with running my bar where it was.


----------



## super*

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> lower center of gravity and more resistance!! allows for a little more aggressive shot and not as much float with little amount of front weight as possible? haha


HAHA damn right dylan but it dont work for everyone as me and you know.


----------



## N7709K

you can't lighten up on front weight is the catch.. you need to weight the front to make it ever worth the effort


----------



## muzzyman1212

I got my blade on today and got my cxls. We got it tuned good im gonna shoot in some then well see. League starts next week so im gonna shoot try to shoot some but I gotta work on my new house. Well see how it goes its 5 spot and my goal is to have a 300 before it ends!


----------



## N7709K

Go one shot at a time and it will happen.


I got my new strings for the new ve+ today, got them on and shot a bit with it. The dl isn't perfect yet but she shoots good. Had to pull the bottom axle and play with spacers to get the cam lean taken care of, got it all timed up and have the dw set... Gonna really get her setup after my rest and vanes show up.

Shot a 324ish with my black ve+ today, I really like that bow, lol


----------



## outdoorkid1

Shot a 297 with 16x on a vegas face today at Yankton, South Dakota


----------



## N7709K

that at the NFAA facility? or?


----------



## N7709K

Bridger, 

how does registration and all that work for the fita stuff? i'm guessing you have to qualify for some of them (world cup) but like the target championships/HWO those just open tourneys?


----------



## underdog145

All of the domestic tournaments are open to anyone shooting. If i were you jacob, i would just shoot the joad nationals as a junior this year to get your feet wet. Its a totally different atmosphere at these shoots. 

But to make the World Cup teams, you need to be on the senior usat team. Senior takes top 8, junior and cadet top 5. The cadets dont go on any trips, just get all the goodies. The juniors get one world ranking shoot per year, so if you made the junior team, it would be worth it to shoot junior. 

I am still going to shoot junior this year, that way i can make usat and go on at least one ranking shoot next year. The 2013 season, i will be shooting senior tho.


----------



## N7709K

how many qualifiers do you have to shoot to qualify for the usat? cause i can't make them all, lol

also what am i lookin at for scores that id need to be shootin?


----------



## Mathewsju

You need to shoot 3 tourneys, one of which is mandatory for all archers competing for a spot on the jr usat team (Joad Outdoor Nationals).

Here's the link http://assets.usoc.org/assets/docum...Jr_Usat_Qualification_Procedures_-_010412.pdf

Looks like upper 1300s (1380+) gives you a real good chance of making it


----------



## Mathewsju

Bridger, define goodies?


----------



## N7709K

bridge, last year was all 50m right?

how would a 689/720 place some in that type of comp? sucks shooting outdoors at 4deg


----------



## underdog145

Goodies would be all the discounts on products that sponsor US Archery. Like bstinger and alpen and aae along with others. 

And Yeah, its all 50 meters again this year. You will have to shoot joad nationals Jake. I may even have an open spot in my car if you would like. And besides howf, you need at least 2 other shoots. Like gator cup or gold cup or nor'Easter. So-cal is one of them as well. And if your hittin 690's on a half fita at 50, your doin pretty solid. That's about what i averaged last year. If you can't make it to 3, your outta luck, which is the sucky part. But for surer try to make it to howf outdoor nationals. If nothing else, it is a really good measure of where you're at.


----------



## N7709K

I'd love to tag along if ya got a spot lol. 

I'm setting up the new bow for outdoor so we'll see how it goes... I got any 96cm at the moment so I'm just shootin 40's and scorin like 80's. Oh well it works in a pinch


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> that at the NFAA facility? or?


 yes


----------



## outdoorkid1

What do you guys think about the elite tour for a target bow? I really like the draw and hold on all of elites bows. Whats the pros/cons?


----------



## N7709K

Binaries and limb stops, I say nay, but if you can shoot it good that's what matters


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> Binaries and limb stops, I say nay, but if you can shoot it good that's what matters


Can you explain why you don't like Binaries and limb stops?


----------



## isaacdahl

Anyone know how to order _just_ a sidebar from SSA? When I go to there website, I can only figure out how to order a sidebar along with a full length stab. For instance, I clicked on the 30" premiere plus and scrolled down to options where I put in a 12" sidebar and dual v-bar bracket...know my cart has both the 30" as well as the 12" bar. I emailed them but would like to order tonight.


----------



## N7709K

Call or email Jerry, he'll set you up.


I don't like binaries due to several aspects, mainly them being slaves together and they need to have timing perfect to shoot optimal and same goes for lean... Don't like limb stops because there's is no give makes shootin a huge pretty tough if you set it heavy, pull through, and just let the shot break... When you pull into Kim stops you don't have the little bit of wiggle that you do with cables


----------



## isaacdahl

am35 is cable stop though isn't it?

This is all opinions so take it for what it's worth, but I don't have a problem with binaries (surprise). Sure, they aren't as adjustable as a hybrid (can't really do to much about cam lean) but just like any cam system, get them set up properly and I feel, they'll do just fine.


----------



## N7709K

All hoyts to my knowledge are, atleast modern ones.

Binaries are also usually higher letoff


----------



## Mathewsju

Ideas for carbon indoor arrows between the o/d of a nano and a 24...go!

I know its partially mental but my aluminums and I just aren't playing nice. I seriously couldn't hold any better and I'm having overall good shots, but they need to be completely flawless to be an x, otherwise its just a 5...I've been checking straightness along with nocks and just can't figure out what the deal is...I think I'm starting to remember why I shot standard size carbons for indoor last year


----------



## underdog145

What arrows are you shootin? Give us some specs and whatnot. Also, what does your centershot look like? Are you on one side of it or the other or just straight down the middle?


----------



## Mathewsju

My setup is VE+ 26.5" spirals, 57#. Shooting 2315s fletched with 3" vantec at 32" with 180 up front and 2712s fletched with 4" vantec at 30" with 300 up front. 

Center shot is right down the middle. Using a TT SS2 with .012 narrow blade


----------



## N7709K

Josh put 100's in your 23's before ya cash in on them, really try it

Gt22's at 30" with 100grs and 3" diamond vanes for carbons


----------



## underdog145

That or try running your rest just inside of centershot. Between 1/16 and 1/8 an inch. That, and maybe even try a .010 blade or an .008 blade with a .010 blade cut in half underneath it. I have been running .008 for everything, indoors and out, for the past 2 years and haven't found anything that shoots better. I just run a backer blade indoors and a kicker blade outdoors. 

But one thing I did find was that running the centershot just a little to the inside seemed to help a ton indoors. Made them group just that much better. 

And do you tend to miss one side more than another? Sometimes, if you just move your rest in the opposite direction, as opposed to moving your sight, that helps as well. (Group tuning) but that's only if you just keep missing, no matter how much you move your sight. 

If you think it'll work, try it. Haha. The worst that can happen is you just move things back to where they were before.


----------



## underdog145

That or try running your rest just inside of centershot. Between 1/16 and 1/8 an inch. That, and maybe even try a .010 blade or an .008 blade with a .010 blade cut in half underneath it. I have been running .008 for everything, indoors and out, for the past 2 years and haven't found anything that shoots better. I just run a backer blade indoors and a kicker blade outdoors. 

But one thing I did find was that running the centershot just a little to the inside seemed to help a ton indoors. Made them group just that much better. 

And do you tend to miss one side more than another? Sometimes, if you just move your rest in the opposite direction, as opposed to moving your sight, that helps as well. (Group tuning) but that's only if you just keep missing, no matter how much you move your sight. 

If you think it'll work, try it. Haha. The worst that can happen is you just move things back to where they were before.


----------



## Sighting In

I've always had to keep my rest just inside of center on my Contender to keep everything grouping right. Would ALWAY get bad right shots (as a lefty) so I'd move it left of center and things get fixed, at least for the most part.


----------



## N7709K

Hmmm may try that, mine seem to tune good a little outside


----------



## isaacdahl

Got my order placed with SSA this evening. Jerry ships b-stinger directly from the plant but I still got a 12" side bar for $55 (and they're only $49 if you order a full length along with it). I also got an 8oz weight and the v-bar bracket instead of the strong arm. Plus some fletches from jerry.

Anyone know approximate shipping time from b-stinger? I know jerry's usually really fast, but I'm guessing it'll be a little longer for the stinger products.


----------



## N7709K

couple weeks from stinger, maybe 3..depends on what you ordered and how busy they are getting orders out..

all i'm gonna say is you got a really good deal


----------



## isaacdahl

Bummer...I don't like waiting; then again who does?

Yeah, I saved about $15 on the bar and $5 on the bracket from LAS's prices, though the 8oz weight wasn't discounted any. Not to bad...

Have you gotten your premiere plus's yet? Would love to see some pics...you know, make the wait even worse, lol.


----------



## Mathewsju

You should have it before Saturday. Had my setup within 5 days of order


----------



## N7709K

Which set? My first or second? My first ones I've had for a month, second sent is comin in bout 15days


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, so are they the ones on your new ve+ then?

Nice to hear mathewsju! Any idea where the b-stinger factory is...suppose I could look it up but I'm supposed to be doing homework right now anyways....


----------



## N7709K

Utah out by the gt plant, might be the same place even.

Yeah that's my first set on the ve+'s... The second set was for the black one but may be for the blue one


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, now that I think of it, I believe gt and b-stinger are either owned by the same people or related some how.


----------



## N7709K

They are owned by the same group, I.e. Gt owns stinger.


----------



## isaacdahl

Any idea what the od of the prem. plus' are Jake? 

I'm making a stab out of some .64" od x .46 id carbon fiber I bought last summer to go along with my b-stinger. It'll be interesting to see how stiff it is compared to the stinger.


----------



## N7709K

I can measure but what you got is smaller... If it has a thick wall and small cross section it should be plenty stiff, but if it's heavy it may not work so well


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, thanks. No need to measure; you answered my question. I'll get some step-by-step pics up when it's done. the wall's about more or less 95 thousandths.

You'd think stiffness would be an easy thing to figure, but I can' seem to come up a good formula (at least one that I'd want to mess with).


----------



## Mathewsju

I'm with you. Finding stiffness of a flat, solid piece is easy but trying to find the stiffness of a cylinder involves some nasty looking calc formulas


----------



## N7709K

Nah, you are over thinking all this. Take a 30" piece support it from the ends and hand 50lbs off the middle. Measure the def and there you go.


----------



## isaacdahl

Haha, it's only that easy if you can afford all that carbon fiber to experiment with lol!:wink:


----------



## N7709K

That's how the industry does it.... 

I just buy em and shoot em... If the time came for me to build some I figure out some stuff, but for now I just shoot


----------



## muzzyman1212

I will be interested how it turns out issac if it turns out good I might make one.


----------



## isaacdahl

muzzyman1212 said:


> I will be interested how it turns out issac if it turns out good I might make one.


Yeah, I enjoy making and designing stuff so even if it's not as stiff as the bstinger, it'll still be worth it.



N7709K said:


> That's how the industry does it....
> 
> I just buy em and shoot em... If the time came for me to build some I figure out some stuff, but for now I just shoot


True but they got the $$$ to experiment. But I do think it'll be stiff enough considering I'll probably cut it to 10"or12"....can't decide which...


----------



## N7709K

I it's only that long it won't matter how stif it is, nothing bends at 12" with the amount of weight you'd run for a stabilizer


----------



## isaacdahl

Here's what were thinking Jake...

Either a Delrin or Teflon handle but the catch is, neither will be able to hold up to threads and a set screw very well due to their soft nature. Do you mind if I just ditch the set screw that goes through the center of the handle? We'll incorporate it in the final aluminum design but for the proto, it will just be easier to do with out. The only point of the set screw I'm talking about is to hold the hook in place and keep it from pivoting freely. Once you apply pressure to the head (attaching it to the d-loop) it will return to the same spot every time...kinda like a hinge without a band etc to hold the head in place.


----------



## isaacdahl

Never mind, after thinking it over, it wouldn't work without because the head would move during shot execution since it's not held in place... don't know why I just thought about that. 

Ok, Delrin it is than...it's supposedly a little stronger than teflon.


----------



## N7709K

Hold off on that for a little bit... Between some stuff Griv said in his Vegas seminars and having new releases show up I'm in the process of getting things down and decided


----------



## isaacdahl

K, will do. So far I'm just trying to get prices and I'm not sure when the machinist would get around to the proto anyways.

So what you thinking then if you don't mind me asking? Is the design still good or would you like some changes maybe? No problem if so, just curious.


----------



## N7709K

not sure yet, crunchin some numbers.. griv went over some mechanics of releases and how angle and orientation of the hook relate to the speed of the release. got spoiled on the brass bt golds that i picked up too, heavy release allows for a more relaxed shot due to the added heft pulling against your hand at full draw.


----------



## isaacdahl

Gotcha. Let me know what you come up with.


----------



## Sighting In

Well, I should have one of these on the way pretty soon: http://www.doinker.com/shop/product.php?id_product=180

Been playing with the rod on the bottom of the riser lately and like it so far, but the regular mount isn't staying how it should. Hoping this will keep it there.


----------



## N7709K

You angling it down at all off the back Adam?


----------



## Mathewsju

thumbs up to Kyle (super*) for hitting a 300 29x on a vegas face!


----------



## super*

Mathewsju said:


> thumbs up to Kyle (super*) for hitting a 300 29x on a vegas face!


Thanx Pal.


----------



## isaacdahl

Nice shooting Kyle! Just curious as to what you average?

Jake, let me know about the release deal. Got any ideas what you'd like this time around?


----------



## super*

isaacdahl said:


> Nice shooting Kyle! Just curious as to what you average?
> 
> Jake, let me know about the release deal. Got any ideas what you'd like this time around?


Well I usually only shoot 5 spot and I have been running 60xs consistantly. I just desided to shoot a vegas game the other night and thats how I ended up. I couldnt give you an average but on 5 spot i usually run 55ish i/o so if you converted that id say around 27 to 28x on vegas face.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

super* said:


> Thanx Pal.



Good job!!!:thumbs_up


----------



## Sighting In

N7709K said:


> You angling it down at all off the back Adam?


Yah, somewhere between 30 and 45 degrees or so. Holds like a rock. Gana shoot a blue face game to night. We'll see how it really scores.


----------



## isaacdahl

super* said:


> Well I usually only shoot 5 spot and I have been running 60xs consistantly. I just desided to shoot a vegas game the other night and thats how I ended up. I couldnt give you an average but on 5 spot i usually run 55ish i/o so if you converted that id say around 27 to 28x on vegas face.


Gotcha, good shooting either way!


----------



## isaacdahl

Well, I got a 4oz, 2oz, and 3 1oz weights machined today. I'll try to get some pics up when the everything's done.


----------



## N7709K

how did the score go for you adam? thats how i had mine run, kinda like jesse had his, but a little less angle. when the new set shows up i'm gonna try again and see if i can make something work before i chuck up the riser and drill er out.


----------



## Sighting In

The bar shoots good. Holds real solid. The round, not so good. lol Had some trouble getting my release off clean. I just need to jump in front of the blind bail a while.


----------



## N7709K

I know what you mean bout shots not breaking nice, last couple rounds I've shot the release just wanted to hang... Scores are ok, couple Vegas 300's and a couple 60's but the shots didn't feel all that good... Least last game was better


----------



## Mathewsju

how's the bt gold treatin ya jake?


----------



## N7709K

havent gotten time to try it yet


----------



## underdog145

I have trouble getting my release to go off as well when I have my bow more balanced than front heavy. I would be really inconsistent from end to end. One end, all insideout, couldnt get them more in the middle. The next, they would be hardly catching the line. As i have told many other people, I think it is much easier to execute a strong shot when you have your bow ever so slightly front heavy. To the point that when you are just holding your bow by two fingers, the front bar rests at about 45 degrees. Along with that, you are fighting how the bow moves, rather than just fighting the mass weight of the bow, that way there is resistance instead of just dead weight. It's like going from holding a milk jug to holding a long stick. Plus, you will naturally begin to make stronger shots due to the fact that you need to pull with your back, or however you set off your release, in order to hold up your sight picture. Thus, making you execute a much more aggressive shot.


----------



## N7709K

light mass weight, low holding weight, or a tad off in dl can cause the release to really hang too


----------



## isaacdahl

I never though of it, but that makes a ton of sense, Bridger. When you think of it, in theory, all that's really happening with a front heavy bow, is that your applying more pressure with your bow hand (to counterbalance the weight) which is obviously, going to help with good shot execution. Interesting stuff...


----------



## N7709K

when you add a front heavy feel to the bow it allows for a much more relaxed shot. when you let the bow settle and you expand through the shot, the release will break and the shot will feel much better. you don't have to push extra hard, try extra hard, or fight to get that repeatable relaxed feel because it will just happen. just takes a few extra ounces and a bit heavier release, unless you shoot like bridger and hold the peg, lol just jokin bud rock what works.

a heavy weight forward setup also aids in shooting strong shots under pressure, you need to keep pressure there or the dot will want to bob lower and lower and you will find the release will become very very slow and not want to break at all.


----------



## Sighting In

I'm pretty sure I've just been having trouble getting my hand into position comfortably and getting it relaxed right. But that actually makes a lot of sense. I might have to give a few more front oz a try and see how it shoots. The pin floats good now, but I can definitely see how that would help me make better shots. I think a bit of extra mass out there could help with all around forgiveness as well.


----------



## N7709K

how much weight you runnin on your main adam, 6-7oz? it doesn't take much maybe 2-3 oz max to see a diff


----------



## Mathewsju

interesting point about front heavy bows...I've always shot mine balanced or back heavy. It definitely seems to help my dot sit in the x with more ease but I know the feeling of having problems with the shot breaking. May have to add a few to the front and see what happens


----------



## Mathewsju

Bridger, can you take me through your shot since you shoot with thumb on the peg...I've tried both ways and I hold better with my thumb on it but I can never seem to get my release arm lined up and loaded correctly.


----------



## N7709K

bridge has his release set so hot you have to stay on the peg, or risk loosing teeth, lol

josh what you runnin for weights on the new bars?


----------



## underdog145

I run mine a lot heavier than i would suggest people run them. Haha. But, like Jacob said, it can only take as few as 2 or 3 oz difference. Even less if you have a really light set up. I run my bars with a 33 in front with 18 oz and a 15 in back with 24. Seems like a lot, but in all reality (and jacob can confirm this) it doesnt feel as heavy as it sounds. Although, i do hold 25 lbs. at full draw as well. Just play around with your set up till you find what works for you. 

Another thing to try is instead of just adding weight, sometimes taking a couple oz off the back or just even pulling one from the back and sticking it on the front can make the difference without breaking you back due to the fact that you are actually keeping the same mass weight.


----------



## N7709K

put it this way, if i had enough weights regardless of color i would be running what Bridger runs.. his dot just sits there and you can blaze away. I even hit a baby x with it out in vegas, lol


----------



## underdog145

Mathewsju said:


> Bridger, can you take me through your shot since you shoot with thumb on the peg...I've tried both ways and I hold better with my thumb on it but I can never seem to get my release arm lined up and loaded correctly.


Well, like jacob said, i do have my release set quite hot so that i am able to get it to go off and still keep my thumb on the peg. A lot of it has to do with how you transfer the weight on your fingers. You just need to search for the sweet spot of the release when it comes to how you grip it so that you can get the exact amount of tension when you are shooting in order to get them to go off consistently. 

Instead of explaining, here are just a couple videos of me shooting in order to show how i manipulate my release hand. 

The first is from the youth worlds in poland, the second from this past february in vegas. Both have a couple close ups of my release hand/ anchor point. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvPe0RdcWSM&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSr3XOZXYKc


----------



## N7709K

if you wanna try it josh, i used to shoot that way also, but i did it a little diff. When i shot that way i used one of the larger pegs and just rested my thumb on it. as i would pull through it would anchor the release and rotate around my index finger, boom shot breaks... it worked great in practice but in comp i ran into some troubles, hence how i shoot now

and by hot josh, i mean like loosen the set screw on your bt gold, rotate the moon until it fires just setting it on the loop and then back it off like .020" or less.. so basically if you take your thumb off.. boom it goes, hell relax with your thumb on and it goes(i hit the bale all 3 times, i was happy, lol)


----------



## outdoorkid1

underdog145 said:


> Well, like jacob said, i do have my release set quite hot so that i am able to get it to go off and still keep my thumb on the peg. A lot of it has to do with how you transfer the weight on your fingers. You just need to search for the sweet spot of the release when it comes to how you grip it so that you can get the exact amount of tension when you are shooting in order to get them to go off consistently.
> 
> Instead of explaining, here are just a couple videos of me shooting in order to show how i manipulate my release hand.
> 
> The first is from the youth worlds in poland, the second from this past february in vegas. Both have a couple close ups of my release hand/ anchor point.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvPe0RdcWSM&feature=relmfu
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSr3XOZXYKc


spectacular shooting:thumbs_up


----------



## Mathewsju

@jake I'm running 12 oz off my 36" main and between 26-28 oz (I've got some solid weights I only know the weight of to within a oz of two) off the 15" back.

@bridger Thanks for the tips...when I first actually shot bt and didn't cheat I did the same thing setting my release hot and keeping my thumb rapped around the barrel. Guess I'll just play around with it a bit and see.


----------



## RoxieTrees

underdog145 said:


> I have trouble getting my release to go off as well when I have my bow more balanced than front heavy. I would be really inconsistent from end to end. One end, all insideout, couldnt get them more in the middle. The next, they would be hardly catching the line. As i have told many other people, I think it is much easier to execute a strong shot when you have your bow ever so slightly front heavy. To the point that when you are just holding your bow by two fingers, the front bar rests at about 45 degrees. Along with that, you are fighting how the bow moves, rather than just fighting the mass weight of the bow, that way there is resistance instead of just dead weight. It's like going from holding a milk jug to holding a long stick. Plus, you will naturally begin to make stronger shots due to the fact that you need to pull with your back, or however you set off your release, in order to hold up your sight picture. Thus, making you execute a much more aggressive shot.


Don't know if I belong in this forum (21) but I've found that also, dead level and balanced bow does not work well at all. It actually allows it to move any way it pleases. You MUST give your weight a direction. I, too, used to like a good bit of forward roll. I went to this last ASA in Monroe and had a guy suggest that I try to put weight so that my bow is actually back heavy and rolls slightly back on the shot. I recently ordered more weight and tried it, and I couldn't be more excited. Much easier to hold on target and if you happen to fall low while trying to pull through, MUCH easier to get it back where you want it. Running only 4 oz. On a 33" bar and about 14.5 on the back 15". If you have the weight, give it a try.


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## N7709K

Josh try like 20oz on the back and see how it shoots.

Roxie, 

You may find 4 oz is gonna be light when it comes to windy conditions... Everyone wants a diff feel and I will say that each bow we are talking about hold, aims, and balances diff. Bridger knows how my bow shoots(x's, lol) and holds, along with his and many others. I know how his holds and aims, and a few more on here. But we both run heavy bows, and will continue to until we can't. If your in Vegas next year, look either of us up and you can feel how our settle hold and balance


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## RoxieTrees

Well I am ordering another set if 4-2-1 weights to put on and try. Seems rather light even still now. Easily get 60 shots off and feel fine. I want a slightly shorter front bar, about 30 or so. Yall seem to be holding like Reo. He has a MASSIVE amount on his front bar.


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## RoxieTrees

I would love to go to Vegas, but we don't have much for indoor here. I love shooting spots though.


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## N7709K

Not really, bout as much as Bridger, maybe a tad less. When you weight down the bow an have that mass weight in balance to your holding weight you don't have to fight the bow at all to get the dot in the middle. I'm running 11oz on a 33" main and 18oz on a 15" back. I'm goin to play with some more weight when indoor is over and see if I can slow my float at 50m any more than it already is.

All balancing a bow is leverage and physics. Get the right amount of weight in the right spot and it just sits there. 

Bridger hold bout 25lbs, I hold bout 28lbs... So theoretically I should be the one with more weight, but that's not the case(they were sold out, cause I got there after him, lol). When you find your sweetspot you'll know


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## Mathewsju

just throwing this out there jake...lancaster has some x spot stabilizer solid weights they sell in 3, 5, 8 or 12 oz that fit bstingers. They're super cheap (under $20) and if you replace single oz weights with an 8 or 12, you are able to consolidate the length of your weight stack off your bar. They are what I use (I only have 6 1oz stinger weights from misc applications)


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## N7709K

I get weights from them with the bars, or at my price... Depends on what I need. I got like 37oz in black 7 4oz stacks and 9 1oz singles, for this set. I have like 50 oz coming for my second set because diff lengths.

Weight is weight, I'm on staff so I give back, weights ain't the end of the world... Spend more on them than bars but it's 1) good to have them 2) I can adjust really really easy...

Thanks tho josh


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## Mathewsju

Ah I suppose its different being on staff, I'm just looking to save some cash where I can haha


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## underdog145

I shot with the xspot weights for awhile and they do work great. 

And roxie, I have had mine weighed more back heavy before too and it holds great. BUt, when you get outside into the wind, sometimes it doesn't want to handle quite as well as having it forwards. But, if you are running a decent amound of weight, where you have it doesn't matter. I can almost promise that reos bow held no different in the wind when he was shooting stingers with the same weight as he shoots with the blades. It all comes down to weight. Look at it this way, what moves less in the wind? A piece of paper that you hold facing the ground? Or a ten pound dumb bell? A little over exaggerated yes, but it proves my point that in the end, most of it all comes down to how much or how little you have on your bow. Along with experience shooting in the wind as well of course. Haha.


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## Mathewsju

underdog145 said:


> I shot with the xspot weights for awhile and they do work great.
> 
> And roxie, I have had mine weighed more back heavy before too and it holds great. BUt, when you get outside into the wind, sometimes it doesn't want to handle quite as well as having it forwards. But, if you are running a decent amound of weight, where you have it doesn't matter. I can almost promise that reos bow held no different in the wind when he was shooting stingers with the same weight as he shoots with the blades. It all comes down to weight. Look at it this way, what moves less in the wind? A piece of paper that you hold facing the ground? Or a ten pound dumb bell? A little over exaggerated yes, but it proves my point that in the end, most of it all comes down to how much or how little you have on your bow. Along with experience shooting in the wind as well of course. Haha.


Thats the reason I went back to stingers. The bar itself is wayy lighter than the carbon blades so I can really stack up the weight on the tips!


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## RoxieTrees

I'm shooting Doinker Fattys, which don't help the wind. I'm going to try out the weight forward, but I was just sceptical of low misses and the fast downward action you get when floating, I'm sure you know about that. I do a lot of 3-D and a low miss when aiming at a 12 means probably a 5.... Haha. But then again, with only shooting 20 shots over a 3 hour period...I shouldn't get tired eh? Lol.


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## N7709K

There was conflict between sponsors on the reo thing...

On paper, weight heavy mains = low misses... In action they don't mean that. When you run the extra weight out front it forces more push/pull and ultimately a better shot. You need to keep the pressure between the release and the grip, so you cannot collapse and still keep the dot in the middle. At first you'll find some low misses and lower patterns, but after a couple weeks when you are used to it you will see better scores and tighter groups


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## underdog145

I used to shoot the fatties as well and thought the same thing. I had a wind bar and all that jazz. One day tho, I took my wind bar and put that weight on my front and back bars so that it would balance the same, just with more weight and vwalla. It held better than before along with no difference in hoping in the wind as it was before with my wind bar. Due to the fact there was more mass weight. 

I do have a wind bar now. But, as you can expect, it has to be pretty bad out for me to consider. 28 ounces is a lot to hold out in front when you already have 24 out the back. Haha. But, it doesn't help because there is less bar, but because there is more weight.


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## RoxieTrees

My problem is I like to relax my release hand a little. Could cause a problem with the weight forward.


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## N7709K

Relaxing the hand and yeild pressure are very diff, you need a relaxed hand but you need the positive pressure against the bow through your bow arm, through your shoulders and chest, and against the release to shoot strong shots. You want as relaxed as possible, but you need to maintain the push/pull


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## isaacdahl

I got my stuff from B-stinger today. Also got my lightspeeds refletched...because of the glue I use, I prefer to wait overnight before I shoot the arrows, so I guess I'll have to wait till tomorrow to mess with all my new goodies.

I'm surprised you haven't received your stabs yet Jake?


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## RoxieTrees

I played with the weight forward again today, and it's just not for me. Very inconsistent. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Also got my 8 degree QDC and it's SCHWEET. Blue Brightfiber from Scotts Custom Archery also came in. Made a WORLD of difference. I can now use a .019" pin with my clarifier.


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## N7709K

Rest came in and I setup the second ve+ fully... It's shooting ok so far, needs some tweaking


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## outdoorkid1

ok guys I'm kinda playin with some stabilizers and I need to know where to put my weight. My pin is moving up and down alot more than left to right. Not much, its inside the 5 ring on a blue face, but I would like to get it better. Do I add/subtract weight from the front/ backbar? If you need to know I have my release set fairly cold now and without a clicker. The pin isn't really moving quick and jerky, but it also isn't moving really slow either kinda in the middle. Thanks for any help


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## N7709K

what length of bars, dw and holding weight, dl.. do you shoot an aggressive shot? is dl correct?


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## outdoorkid1

Its not a target set up or anything just a huntin stab I set up with some weight on the end. For my back bar i just added some weight to the end of the string stopper. Front stab is about 10" The weight on the string stop is about 4 1/2" back from the riser. Couldn't tell ya what the weight is for either of the two as I just have copper tubing filled with lead for weights and just taped on. Kinda ******* but it seems to work fine.

DW-59
holding weight- about 13lbs
I'm not really sure what you mean by aggressive shot I just hold the pin on the center and pull with my back muscles and my middle finger until it goes off.
DL feels almost perfect but I'm sure if I would shorten/lengthen it by 1/16" it could make a difference


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## N7709K

fast or slow float to the pin? 

how much weight on the end of the 10"


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## outdoorkid1

I would say a lil more fast than slow

The stab is solid metal and has equal weight all the way across it(somthing my dad had shot with about 30 years ago) On the tip i have the tube running horizontal to the ground with lead in it. Can't really tell ya what it weighs. Don't have a scale or anything that measures in ounces.


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## outdoorkid1

if it helps any this is how I have it set up


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## N7709K

without a weight we can't really do anything.. i'm guessing total mass weight is too heavy


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## outdoorkid1

ok I'll take a lil off the back,front and see what happens. Thanks


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## RoxieTrees

Hey Jake, what size blade do you use with what weight arrow indoor?


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## N7709K

the middle size pro tuner .010 and a .010 backer(don't need it but had it on there from 27's).. shoot that for 340gr lightspeeds, 420gr injexion, 500gr 2315's, 715gr 2712's.. for indoor all i'm shooting anymroe is 2315's, they shoot good


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## RoxieTrees

I think I'm way too soft, but I'm getting good flight. Shooting 398 gr. X-killers with one .008. My thing is, I have my cables as close as I can get them to my arrow, so I have my cock Vane out. So, it slightly touches during the shot.


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## N7709K

.008 isn't too light, i've run a .010 with my 27's no backer and they shoot just fine.. reo shoots a .008 with a .012 backer for a 700gr 2712... 

does it tune that inside or is that to get a good tear through paper?


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## RoxieTrees

What do you mean? It tears good through paper. Lost me on the tune inside though.


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## N7709K

target rigs, paper doesn't matter at all, all it has to do is group good....

when you set it up i'm assuming you set the rest at centershot and then paper tuned? did you need to move the rest towards the riser to get a good tare?


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## RoxieTrees

Not at all. Perfect center shot. It has a slight tear but I figured that was from my .200 spine X-Killers... Lol. It's my indoor/3-D rig. It groups as good as I can shoot out to 100. Best I've gotten in Vegas though is 298 16x. Haven't shot it with my new set up. It's MUCH better than my old set up.


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## N7709K

center doesn't matter.. if you don't have cable clearance, move it a tad and see if groups open up.. if they do move it back and shoot like you have been.. if they get better, leave it where it is. the only way to find a better setup for your bow is to play around. 

at 20yds a stiff arrow isn't the diff between a 300 and a 298.. for that matter, my indoor and outdoor arrows are stiff for my setup, and they shoot very well. just gotta play and see.

Why you want your cables so close? trying to get rid of lean?


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## RoxieTrees

Just preventing lean. No torque on the riser either.. Well, very little. If I move it out I'm sure it won't tune for the longer distance at all. 20-50 yards would be off right? Impossible for it not to be.


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## RoxieTrees

Oh, and i know that, I was just saying my current set up is much better than my old throw together target set up.


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## N7709K

Forget lean, don't matter... Unless you have a slaves binary system and they lean diff from eachother, it doesn't really matter.

If it group tunes where it is now, tune would be off past 50yds. At 20yds it doesn't matter, it's so short of a distance you have a ton of room to play. You will find a "sweet spot" where groups are the best and scores reflect that. With my setup I'll put a click or two into or out of my rest during a round if I'm getting this or that to clear it up. At 50yds I'll do the same thing if I get groups that are opening up, I'll put one in and see how it does for groups. Unless your arrow and bow are 100% plum square with arrow center of the string path for full length of the arrow you can move the rest and not change more than left/right and group size WITH A TARGET RIG. With my hoyts I set lean into the top cams time them top slow and eyeball rest to get a starting point, from then on it is a working setup that changes with groups only. My indoor bow has been run with a slight outside setup for the rest, but I'm playin with a slight inside to see how I/o scores react. If they go down I can move it back.

With an overly stiff arrow you have less grey area into which you can play, but you have a window that will keep the flight the same and possibly improve group size or flight. When you tune the rest for groups tune at the longest distance you can keep all the arrows in say a 3" circle. When you set it for longer, close falls into place.


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## RoxieTrees

Yeah, I always used walk up tuning over walk back. I'll take a look tomorrow after our shoot. Thank you for the help.


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## underdog145

Is your cable slide bar a carbon one? Because if it is, and legally I am not suggesting this, but sometimes shaving it down so that it becomes a flex guard can help with lean if you are really that worried about it. Just have to shave the middle of it down until it is about 1/4 thickness of the original bar. But, I am not actually suggesting it. Just an idea. But in the end, cam lean isn't as big of a deal as people build it up to be. As long as your bow will draw without the string falling off the cam, you are fine. In fact, sometimes lean will help your bow tune that much better. I know mine tunes much better with a slight lean to the left, as when I come to full draw, if I look up at the cam, there is almost no lean at all. That is where you should be checking for cam lean. Because if you are looking at it while your bow is at rest, it may be leaning at full draw, and the arrow is already gone when your bow is at rest (obviously). 

Check your lean at full draw and try to correct it there, then see how much vane clearance you get. 

And as far as your blade thickness goes, you are more than ok with an .008 blade. The thinner the better. Especially if you dont think you are getting clearance on your rest. Think about it this way, if you do have to have contact to get a good tune, isnt it better to have the thing that is more pliable and moves out of the way easier than something that is stiffer and will hold its position?

Try messing with your cam lean. And, at your own discretion, the cable guard thing if you are that wishy washy about your cam lean, just make sure you have an extra incase you shave a little too far. haha. Let us know how either goes.


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## RoxieTrees

I also have the Spot Hogg infinity rest and have it on a light setting so it moves out the way easily. I don't think I'm gonna shave my guard. I'll try to take a pic of my bow/ guard/ arrow tomorrow.


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## Sighting In

Bridge, have you ever actually shaved one down yourself? I'd be too scared to try. lol The only thing I'd even consider doing to my Hoyt is to add that flex guard thing Jessee has on his bow. I've seen tilt tamers get messed up in competition and don't want to go there.


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## RoxieTrees

Yeah, I'd get drawn half way back and my slide would come off and smack me.


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## isaacdahl

How much room for error do you have with stabs in bhfs? With my vbar bracket and 12" premier plus and 8oz weight, I'm over 12" by a good 3/4".


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## N7709K

12" is 12" no give or take.. what bracket you using?


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## isaacdahl

The regular v-bar block from B-stinger.


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## Mathewsju

First time since August since I shot outside...72 degrees, sunny and hardly any wind. Ended up grouping really well considering I haven't even thought about tweaking my setup for outdoors. Kept them in 2-3" group at 60 yds so I'm happy. 

Final conclusion: Indoors isn't for me! Bring on summer and the outdoor season!


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## isaacdahl

Yeah, it's crazy warm here this week too. I just went out to the shop and blank bailed about 10 shots today though. I need to get back in a routine...cause of winter, I've gotten lazy with my shooting when I've got a million other things going that day. You know, you find some time to shoot except you're lazy instead and decide to chill for a bit instead of getting your butt up and actually getting it done.


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## N7709K

just cut your bar down if you need to...

i shoot basically daily, unless i'm sick or what not.. seems to work


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## underdog145

Sighting In said:


> Bridge, have you ever actually shaved one down yourself? I'd be too scared to try. lol The only thing I'd even consider doing to my Hoyt is to add that flex guard thing Jessee has on his bow. I've seen tilt tamers get messed up in competition and don't want to go there.


I did right after Joad nationals last summer, just for kicks and giggles. To my surprise, it worked quite well. Took out a lot of left and right misses. But, it made the cams roll over really funny and i even had trouble clearing my draw stop peg, due to how the spirals were designed. So i took it off.

The biggest thing is you just need to play around with your cam lean until you find the sweet spot. I play around with my bow enough that i can find it in a matter of minutes just by drawing the bow back, but thats because I know what the spot is supposed to feel like. The only real way to find it for sure is to obviously shoot your bow. Having your bow tuned properly with just the right amount of cam lean will be just as if not more forgiving than having your cable guard shaved down.


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## N7709K

clearing your peg... did it lean into the cables and the peg would drag? or lean out and it would slip past?


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> just cut your bar down if you need to...
> 
> i shoot basically daily, unless i'm sick or what not.. seems to work


I suppose I could, but I really hate to take a hack saw to my brand new stab. I should've cut the one I made down to 10" but I decide to stick with 12" at the last minute...if anything, I'll cut that one down and put it on the front.


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## N7709K

heat the end, cap will come off, cut off in an arrow saw


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## isaacdahl

I'll more than likely keep it how it is. Since I don't shoot any big shoots, I suppose it really doesn't matter...it's balancing really well so far with the little I've played with it at these lengths anyways.


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## RoxieTrees

50 yard group just now.... Feeling it.


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## isaacdahl

Nice shooting Roxie! Thanks for getting me more pumped to get out and shoot some quality arrows today!


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## RoxieTrees

Thanks. I found out that if I relax my back wrist completely, my release fires easier and I'm much more accurate. Relax everything but your back. I was afraid to shoot closer than 40 because i only have so many nocks....
I have to run get some Vegas faces to see what I can score with the new rig.


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## N7709K

Have to stay relaxed to stay consistent


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## N7709K

vanes showed up today (thanks a ton Aaron! i owe ya big time, these things POUND)

got the injexion fletched and now working on the lightspeeds


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## isaacdahl

What vane you talking about, Jake?

I got out and shot a little today and so far I'm really like the b-stinger...completely worth the money. With a little tuning and messing around, I've got it in a good spot that's working well so far, but I'm still not done with the tinkering. Can't believe how much better my bow holds with a good side bar set up. I need to get some more 5/16-24 set screws though...most hardware store don't even carry them.

Lightspeeds seem to be shooting a lot better too with the longer, low profile vane. Don't have any fletching contact either.


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## N7709K

aae plastifletch max.. 1.75", groups shrunk a good deal at 50m and consistency went through the roof... i can aim as a 2" spot and hit it first time every time, unlike before


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## RoxieTrees

isaacdahl said:


> What vane you talking about, Jake?
> 
> I got out and shot a little today and so far I'm really like the b-stinger...completely worth the money. With a little tuning and messing around, I've got it in a good spot that's working well so far, but I'm still not done with the tinkering. Can't believe how much better my bow holds with a good side bar set up. I need to get some more 5/16-24 set screws though...most hardware store don't even carry them.
> 
> Lightspeeds seem to be shooting a lot better too with the longer, low profile vane. Don't have any fletching contact either.


yeah, they don't carry much fine thread.


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## N7709K

How many you need? I got a box of them


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## Mathewsju

What were you shooting before jake? I found bohning 1.75" x vanes to be the best for grouping with my setup


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## Sighting In

Mathewsju said:


> What were you shooting before jake? I found bohning 1.75" x vanes to be the best for grouping with my setup


Me too. Tried the AAEs and had durability problems with them. I love the Bohnings a ton. I've got most of the other guys at my shop shooting them now, and most of them are pretty pick about what goes on their arrows.


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## N7709K

i got some of the bohning ones that i'll play with, but so far these are good. I like bohning vanes for the most part, have had some issues with blazers... both of the vanes i got(aae/bohning) are rather stiff which is good. So far they have held up very very good after i got them to stick(bad glue the first go around) and they have been taking a beating down range

durability? They tear too much or?


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## Sighting In

They just wouldn't stick for crap, and yah, they'd tear a lot. I shot JOAD Nats a few years ago with AAE and got a few pass throughs, which totally wreaked them. They'd either fall off or get completely warped. I was down like 3 arrows in the first 2 days of the shoot. I've had my bohnings pass through too and never once had a problem.


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## Mathewsju

Durability wise they are awesome. I've been using them for a year and super* has had them for over 2 and I can't remember one time they fell off or got torn, and considering how much we beat them up I can't complain


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## x-hunta

Well I have just been watching this thread but finally think I have something worth while to say, lol.

I have used AAE Plastifletch and Flex Fletch 187s on my outdoor arrows.

AAE-Stuck really well with Fletchtite Platinum without prepping vane. Actually stuck so well it pulled of some carbon on one of my ACE's after I punched the pin in. 
Grouping was pretty good but no where near as good as with my 187s. Never tried them with wraps though. The durabilty is not terrible but has some room for improvement mainly on the tearing a fair amount.

Flex Fletch-Always my go to vane no matter what I try, I just end up back with them. 
Sticking is a problem if you do not religiously prep the shaft and vane. The zing primer is a very good for prepping the vane although I use acetone. I used Fletchtite Platinum and Bohning wraps and they are holding like a rock, I am tearing off the wrap before the vane. 
Group wise they are the best I have tried for me. And durability is incredible, I have only twice seen a FF vane tear, and that was my Nano XR going through one of the world champs vanes at our provincial champs. He returned the favor a couple ends later. LOL


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## N7709K

Adam, I barely prepped the shafts, put them on with fletch tite and they go clean through my bale and come out just fine. So far I love them, ain't changing any time soon. I'm really lazy bout conditions of the vans as long as there are 3, lol


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> How many you need? I got a box of them


Thanks buddy, I'll let you know. I got one more place I'm gonna check up town, though, so hopefully they'll have some.


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## N7709K

you could just have a machine shop make you one as long as you want.. so get like a 4 or 6" piece and just stack weights on one bar


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## N7709K

blew up a lightspeed today.. center punched the bushing and shoved it 5" down the shaft... oh well


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## RoxieTrees

Lol. Being a good shot sucks huh.


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## N7709K

hopefully this trend doesn't continue or i'll be out of arrows very fast... i know i shouldn't aim at them, but i wanted to make sure my sight was on

played with the second ve+ today to get the feel the same between the two.. my shoulder didn't like the new one as much so it needed to get changed up. Have a sight coming and just waiting on stabilizers now. Not sure i'm sold on it fully yet, it shoots good..but i'm not sure if its THAT good


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## isaacdahl

Ouch, how'd the other arrow fare?


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## N7709K

Bounced back, it's fine... I've had acc's kinda do that before where the bushing splits but not any carbon eastons


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## RoxieTrees

Shazam.


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## N7709K

made up a low riser mount today for the new VE+.. just gotta go get some fine thread nuts, bolt, and a couple washers to finish it off.. the little testing i did paid off very well as far as hold goes, didn't shoot any scores but It def helps with the balance. I'll finish setting it up and shoot some spot games with it here this week, IF i can get fine thread nuts/bolts


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## N7709K

got all the parts i needed.. got the spacer made up and got it all together tight.. hold has increased exponentially, lower cog makes a huge diff.. I have a new set of bars coming for this bow so i'm not playing with weights yet, but I can deff tell it takes/will take a few less oz on a back bar to get the same feel

I have a 10deg down coming also so i'll see if the full transition of lower CoG makes taht big a diff


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## N7709K

Bridger, have you played with a shoot-thru on a hoyt at all? 

I think i may have found why people are so anal about cam lean and torque.. they think they have it and if they do they can't shoot well. Its all the mental side, if you don't know you don't care and you just learn to be consistent with what ya got. For hunting it may make a diff when you try tuning BH's but for target it has no impact for the majority of archers (short DL/DW shooters have to pay more attention to everythign). For that matter the majority of shooters probably can't tell a diff in accuracy between a bow with or without


----------



## super*

Mathewsju said:


> Durability wise they are awesome. I've been using them for a year and super* has had them for over 2 and I can't remember one time they fell off or got torn, and considering how much we beat them up I can't complain


It true!


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## underdog145

I havent played with it at all. to be honest, never really was interested in doing it or taking the time and effort to do so. I have always shot well by just using what I have now and never really saw the need in having all that extra trouble. I have tho, taken and moved the split in my cable down much farther, and that did seem to held ever so slightly. Mostly just gave me the ability to tune my cam lean and draw length a little more precisely. 

I will agree that it is much easier to tune a bow without cam lean, it's just the fact that people dont really know how to measure cam lean the reight way. You should measure it at full draw. And not just full draw in a draw machine, but with it in your hands, with your grip, and with YOUR torque. I know my bottom cam has a small amount of cam lean, but my top is nearly perfect with how i torque my bow. Everyone torqes the bow differently. Period. And unless you can put your hand in a fist and hold your bow between your knuckles, the way a draw machine does, you WILL torque the bow. Period. 

That is why all these products that are saying they reduce torque and make it so you dont torque your bow seem like complete balogna to me. No product can solve human error. A bow will do the same thing time and time again, no matter how out of wack it is. It is the consistancy in the archer that is the problem, not the bow. Can you manipulate the bow to fit the archer to make him or her more consistent, of course. But, you will NEVER eliminate all torque. Unless you can figure out a way to have the bow floating in mid air, there is no possible way.


----------



## N7709K

I know what you mean bout longer Legs on the yoke... I played with a shoot-thru a bit on the AE and it didn't do anything beneficial to groups, just feel.

I get what your saying about torque, makes perfect sense. The other thing is there is no bow out there that will take your shooting from good to exceptional, especially at 20yds. You can only be so consisted as a shooter and that consistency goes away with age and time.


----------



## N7709K

its kinda the same thing about setting a bow up in a hooter shooter, when you isolate the human aspect basically any setup will shoot perfect groups


----------



## pikemaster

Ive been struggling quite abit with my form lately, i keep creeping off the backwall even when im pulling. I think im just bein lazy but its really frusturating haha. Also cant hold steady to save my life.... Provincials this weekend. Yay.. Lol


----------



## x-hunta

If you are creeping off the back wall when you are still pulling it sounds like draw length may need a little bit of shortening. Just from what I know, which ain't that much, lol.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yep, try shortening up your draw length a little. That's most likely the problem.


----------



## N7709K

Can't tell anything without pics.... That or you need to describe things much better


----------



## N7709K

put new stabs to the test indoors tonight... 52i/o's 60x


----------



## pikemaster

Shortened my dl a bit yesterday and now its alot better haha. Holding steadier too.


----------



## isaacdahl

My shooting's really coming together with my new stabs. Everything falls together so much better when it's balanced well.

What size of peep you guys using? 1/8" is working really well for me, but, I can't quite see my bubble; I don't like a lot of light coming from the outside edges of the housing though.


----------



## N7709K

3/64th.. might go to a 1/32nd.. not sure yet tho


----------



## RoxieTrees

Because of my string angle with the string a good bit from my eye, I use 1/8". 1 3/4" housing extended almost all of the way out with my 9" Sure-Loc extension.


----------



## Mathewsju

Played around quite a bit today. I was having trouble activating my release without dipping low so I brought my elbow down to parallel with the ground and tweaked my DL a twist or so and what do you know, working great again. Stronger and more consistent shots and my pin sits with alot less effort (not that it took much to begin with). Also ordered a Bstinger adjustable vbar and through that on. I had been running a strong arm off the back of my VE+ and got tired of the angle down. Set it up so there's no angle down and I like it alot better, although I think I might need another oz off the front now, but we will see tomorrow. Still gotta get my 2nd and 3rd axis set and play with my rest to get my 22s to group like my kinetics.


----------



## Mathewsju

Also found a way to make the mount dead solid when using a 1/4 - 20 hole. Go to walmart or another supermarket and look for rubber grips for opening cans by hand. Cut one of them up and place it between your mount and the riser...works like a charm. Even when I yank on the end of my stab it don't move

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


----------



## N7709K

if your gonna run a 1/4-20 get a grade 8 bolt josh... 

I'm happy with how mine are and its easy to drill and tap them out.. plus i can lower the CoG a bit easier


----------



## Mathewsju

That's what I'm using now. What have you noticed with your new lower back bar in turns of holding and amount of weight needed?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


----------



## N7709K

Put it this way... You know the thing call float? Well for the first 50-60 shots it is gone, then it comes back and the dot never gets more than half dot off the center of the x... I can shoot in 30mph crosswinds and never leve the inside of the yellow at 50m.

Haven't played with weights yet but it needs a few more oz on the main to balance perfect on target.


----------



## Mathewsju

Darn it Jake now I've got something else to experiment with! lol

How was your hold in the wind before?


----------



## N7709K

My hold was never bad, I had enough weight on the end of the bar so as to cut down movement... But this is much more solid and slowed. Instead of having a circular float or figure 8 float I have a gentle side to side sweep if there is a breeze/wind. There is a little more of a defined float at 50m than at 20yds for spots.

It's kinda a hit or miss thing tho, either works or doesnt


----------



## N7709K

new bars showed up today! got both bows setup so they have same poi between them and two totally diff sets.

if you aren't shooting one, get a 10deg down for your main bar, went from 24-25i/o half's on five spot to a 29 i/o half right out the gate, its that much better. Pics coming later


----------



## RoxieTrees

I picked up the 8 degree down a couple weeks ago and it really seems to help. I didn't want to go all the way to 10 and the 8 seems perfect.


----------



## N7709K

the diff between 10deg and 8deg is like one oz on the end of the main.. if that, but the amount it lowers the cog is worth it


----------



## RoxieTrees

It helps more with cant and less with the torque you put on the bow.


----------



## N7709K

when you lower the CoG of the bow to below the grip you also change the degree at which the bow reacts to the torque. the imbalance below centerline resits rotation around the y-axis as much as it does along the x-axis with cant. when you run the back bar low off the riser as i've gone to you fully shift the CoG below the centerline by several inches and thus reduced the impact any torque puts on the bow. lower CoG react more to can't because you are now trying to lever the bow above the CoG.. so if you cant the bow, you better just live with it or change stuff up, or you will fight it.


----------



## isaacdahl

Why not just run the main bar off the right vbar mount? I've thought of doing this that way I have full adjust-ability of my main. It would be right of center but that's not hard to compensate for.


----------



## RoxieTrees

isaacdahl said:


> Why not just run the main bar off the right vbar mount? I've thought of doing this that way I have full adjust-ability of my main. It would be right of center but that's not hard to compensate for.


I've tried with the 20 degree on the front and turning it so it slightly angle off to the left (same side as my sight) so I can put more weight on my side bar and not dip out, but it didn't seem to make much difference.


----------



## N7709K

Whats the point? all you would do is shift the weight slightly to the right and need to run the offset bar either farther out/ angled up more/ or add weight... 

it can be done, but its easier to run the main off the centerline of the bow.


----------



## RoxieTrees

I did it just for more weight. I didn't want to add another bar


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## N7709K

i'd just add more weight, or go to the wind bar...

Bridger! i finally have enough weights to try your setup!, lol.. but they are all being used on my wind bar


----------



## N7709K

got em both rigged now.. have a sight coming for my black one(feel really bad not shooting that one, but the blue one is POUNDING!) both bows have same poi at 20yds sharing the sight, so i have a backup bow if need be... shot a half game after sighting in with the blue one and shot 29i/o's in the half.. only one that hit was a really bad shots that still went halfshaft on the line

blue:
33" plus black main with 12oz and 10deg down
15" back with 18oz angled down and left off the low mount

black:
20" wind bar with 26oz 
15" back with 18oz running slightly left offset... waiting on parts for a low mount


----------



## underdog145

Jake, is it bad that my normal set up is only 3 ounces lighter than your wind bar set up?


----------



## super*

for those of you that shoot indoor spots. How many of you are burnt out and ready to shoot outdoors? Well i sure am and not to mention nationals is a week away.


----------



## N7709K

i get burnt out right after vegas... five spot sucks


----------



## Mathewsju

bring on outdoors!


----------



## N7709K

one more blue face shoot and i'm done for the year... lets see if i can pull off a second win


----------



## underdog145

Decided to give er a go Saturday. Shot a 698 with a bent riser. Not too bad.


----------



## N7709K

lol everyone knows best risers induce torque, lol good shooting bud


----------



## Mathewsju

How did you bend it??


----------



## underdog145

Got bent on my flight home from Vegas. The bridge on the left side (right side for you) got crimped in about an 1/8 an inch.


----------



## hoytgirl15

hey! got a friend that has a question but isn't on AT. We both live in AZ just to let ya know. Here is his question!


"I've found some spots around our house where the deer were last year (on there summer range) and I'm thinking about making some stands using that deer attractant called "C'-mere deer". I hear it's great on whitetails back east and sometimes works on couse deer. But mule deer are totally different. Would it work??"


----------



## hoytgirl15

thanks guys!!


----------



## N7709K

The whole point of this thread was to more or less get away from that type of stuff and have a target orientated place....


----------



## archerykid13

Yes C'Mere deer would work for mulies. Its just a supplement. But yes the thread is for just spot shooting. Thanks.


----------



## hoytgirl15

oh, sorry


----------



## archerykid13

It's fine. You just have to read before you post. No problem though.

Jake


----------



## N7709K

its kinda burried like 30 pages back too... check and make sure its legal to bait before your friends puts it out and hunts over it


----------



## isaacdahl

Man this is frustrating, it seems something like this happens every year; last year my rotator cuff, now I have a AC joint separation, which isn't too serious, but I can't shoot for a couple weeks (and still only if it's better). Don't think I'll even be ready for the first shoot in April:sad:.


----------



## underdog145

Just small hoops to jump thru man. I had problems the last couple of years as well. Just gotta make sure that you aren't over bowin yourself and that you are using proper technique for your body type. I have worked on my shoulders a litte more this year and that has seemed to help as well. So don't be afraid to hit the gym every once in awhile.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, I lift 4 days a week and I think that's what's done it more than anything. Chest and shoulder stuff like bench press and military press are what hurt the most so I'm just gonna do lower body for a couple weeks along with ice and rest. Don't know how much the ac joint and rotator cuff work together, but maybe I need to start working on my rotator cuffs a little more...I've been slacking there.

Oh well, hopefully after this I can get back into the swing of things and do better than last year.


----------



## Mathewsju

Sometimes taking a few weeks off is the best thing you can do


----------



## isaacdahl

Mathewsju said:


> Sometimes taking a few weeks off is the best thing you can do


True, and that's what I think I'll do. I did lower body today but even hoisting around 45# plates didn't feel to great on the shoulder.


----------



## underdog145

When I lift, which I do very little of to begin with, i don't over load too much. Usually do really light weights. MOre endurance types of things.


----------



## N7709K

i've never lifted a day in my life.. just work... but if you do dumb stuff ya blow out shoulders, lol


----------



## underdog145

Yeah. Dumb stuff like shoot archery... haha.


----------



## N7709K

Lol thanks bridge


----------



## isaacdahl

True that, shooting bow hurts my shoulder just as much sometimes more than lifting does lol.


----------



## N7709K

my bow shoulder's been hurting a "little bit" ever since oct. but i decided to just shoot with it and see how it goes.. its hurting more now but i've been working it kinda hard for a while... gonna take the summer off from big comps(sorry bridger, i'll make it up to ya next year, promise) and just practice a little here and there and see how it does.. may shoot some local stuff, idk yet


----------



## N7709K

long story short i'm changin brands, so i got some arrows that need to go.. anyone looking? hit me up


----------



## underdog145

That mean your not planning on comin to nationals in Ohio with me then?


----------



## N7709K

Unfortunately no, haven't talked to the shoulder guy yet, but I think I have a partial tear of my rhomboid or rotatorcuff in my right shoulder... Doesn't hurt all that much, just can't really shoot back tension... So taking some time off from big comps and lots of practice to let it heal

Sorry bud, it was gonna be a great time too


----------



## isaacdahl

As everyone knows, been there done that. Speedy recovery man. Biggest part is to lay off it for a while and do the strength exercises the dr. gives ya.

What arrows you trying to get rid of and what you switching to?


----------



## N7709K

Thanks bud

right now i got a doz or two 2315's, some 2712 shafts(cut at 31"), some injexions, maybe some lightspeeds and some other arrows too.. not sure on those yet tho


----------



## isaacdahl

If I had some money, I'd be interested in those lightspeeds for sure but the 340's aren't shootin to bad so I guess I'll just stick with them.

Anybody have any stories of switching to glasses and if your shooting improved? I found out last week my eyes are crap and I've needed glasses for awhile. Don't now when they'll be here but hopefully next week. Parents just singed off of company eye insurance a few weeks ago (coincidentally) so I'm gonna have to wait till the fall to get contacts unfortunately.

I have noticed passed 30yds I can't see my aiming points any more lol...hopefully that'll change.


----------



## N7709K

my eyesight aint great, all that matters is your consistent.. some of the best groups i've ever shot have come at 12pm in the dark when i can't see more than a tiny distinction between dot and target..


----------



## isaacdahl

True but when you start seeing 2 dots when lighting isn't perfect, which do you aim at haha?


----------



## N7709K

thats more of a focus thing.. i don't get that.. well i do to an extent with bows, i get two posts usually on a gun when i'm shooting open sights.... you can put up a blockers over your non dominant eye, lots of guys do that.. or just close one


----------



## isaacdahl

True, I was just saying my eyes really aren't worth much, haha.

But your right, it is more of a dominance thing. I tend to shoot with both eyes open but I try to squint my left eye to keep it from taking over.


----------



## N7709K

i shoot both open and use both.. but it took a good bit of time to get used to it


----------



## N7709K

so bridger, aaron.... what do ya think for indoors? keep with one set of fita legal arrows or go to XXX's or some other larger shaft for vegas and other indoor stuff

as it sits now here is what i'm gonna get:

two doz kinetic pros
doz 22 pros 
and then a doz XXX pros.. but i may change that to a diff arrow


----------



## underdog145

I have stuck with my 23s, switched to 27s, shot outdoor arrows, Ive done it all. And to be honest, i would say that the most consistent thing would be to stick with just one arrow, like the 22s. For me, it just depends on how i have been messing with my bow and which one just ends up shooting better that day. Right now, my 27s are shootin better. Earlier in the season, my 23s were doin better. Just depends on the day really. Best bet would be to either get them all or only get one of them.


----------



## N7709K

Got those dots for ya, Looks like they are gonna work sweet for ya. I got some green outer rings to go on my scope housing and they help... Played with field the other day, lots o fun, lol


----------



## isaacdahl

I was tired of sittin on my butt so I took a chance and went to the gym. My shoulder was kinda sore but I pushed through it (usually not a good idea) but now it feels a lot better...maybe it just needed to be stretched.

I think I'll crank the bow down a couple turns tonight and see how that goes.


----------



## isaacdahl

Well, I had to turn my limb bolts out like 8 turns to get it where it was comfortable enough to shoot; if I'd have to guess I'd say it's just a tad over 50lbs. That plus I reset my rest and dloop to center shot (it was a bit high) and my sights moved down as far as it will go...pins are gonna have a huge gap if I keep it here too. Hopefully my shoulder will heal up fast and I can get the poundage back up so I don't have such huge pin gaps.


----------



## N7709K

if you want your shoulder to heal faster.. don't shoot for a bit and then start slow


----------



## N7709K

its legit now


----------



## isaacdahl

Nice! That took long enough, eh?


----------



## underdog145

I renewed in vegas and still havent gotten mine...


----------



## N7709K

you had to sign away didnt you bridger since your 17 still?

mine showed up really quick, it was nice... now just to put it to use


----------



## Mathewsju

Vegas is done, Nationals is finished...you know what that means

OUTDOORS STARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And not a moment too soon. I think I was starting to go crazy from standing at 20 yards for 4 hours at a time


----------



## N7709K

so i'm thinkin bout startin coachin.. what yall think?
partly due to my shoulder, and partly because of the longer term when i wanna hang up the soon to be world wide comp


----------



## isaacdahl

So what do vertical misses mean? I'm good left to right, but up and down they're all over the place. I added some weight to my stabs but I'm thinkin there's more to it than that.


----------



## N7709K

timing's off.. thats what vertical string hints at


----------



## isaacdahl

Btw, I think taking up coaching would be a good idea for you Jake. You'd be good at that and you'd make some cash in the process, so might as well give a go.


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> timing's off.. thats what vertical string hints at


That was a fast reply...

My bow press is still in the works but I got the fingers cut today so all that's left is some welding and assembly and I should be good to go. So hopefully soon I'll get to play with some stuff like that.

Maybe it's just inconsistency too because I'm talking a few inches at about 40yds. What should I look for as far as consistency goes?


----------



## N7709K

haha thanks.. With this shoulder thing and some other stuff it kinda brought it back to the front, been thinking bout it for a while.... Right now i got the side of friends, family, sudo family that has seen my behind the bow and getting that bow setup right to be behind it and then i got the fact that i'm only 18years young.. and this will probably be the last season i'm shooting for my current shop so that can both hurt and help

I'm not sure how i'd start if i do.. i can setup the bows pretty good and get them shooting very well, and for some of what i've done at the shop i should get some compensation.. So far i've been asked to teach someone how to shoot a hinge and do it right... thats a long process and i don't have the time to do it pro bono as bad as that sounds

as for the groups, i'll usually get an inch string at 20yds when i'm shooting my ve+.. this year was better, really brought the groups in and the string went away.

I'd check the timing, take all the weights off teh bars and reset them


----------



## isaacdahl

Well thanks, I'll mess with the timing a little and hopefully that'll help.

Sounds like a plan. Yeah, I'd think you be able to get compensation easily considering you've been shooting for that shop for quite a while. Good luck...let us know how it goes.

So how bad's your should anyhow? Do you have full range of motion in it? In most cases if your able to rotate it in every direction (as long as the pains bearable), it's just strained and needs some rest and ice. Incomplete range of motion do to pain, usually means a tare.


----------



## N7709K

i can do everything that i could before just can't lift as much and it hurts to breathe deep on the right side.. but my pain tolerance and teh average are way diff..

they won't/dont compensate for anything.. if i want to get compensated i gotta do it on my own.. and i'm done shooting for that shop at the end of the year


----------



## N7709K

ok so this may sound crazy, cause it kinda is, but does anyone feel like borrowing a bow and doing lots and lots and lots of shooting to test something?


----------



## Sighting In

What do you have in mind, Jacob?


----------



## Juanmaria

Shooting spots is a couple activity at my place, we have great fun laughing at our shots. Having fun in NM. Juanmaria


----------



## x-hunta

I decided to try out some carbon ones and see how they shoot. I must say I am prettty impressed with them especially at their price. I swore by my Nano XRs last year but I think I am gonna stick with the Carbon 1s for this season. Ended up with 28'' 450 with 110gr up front, 356gr finished weight. Bohning wrap and the trusty flexfletch 187s. Spitting them out of my Bowmadness at 59lbs and 29'' draw. 691,687 were the first two 50m rounds with them. Also shot them yesterday in the wind they still performed solidly although I didn't score any. They have a bit more wind drift than the XRs but since they are 50 grains lighter it was expected. Not sure how they will hold up to rear impacts but I have hit 3 pins and no cracks yet.


----------



## Mathewsju

N7709K said:


> ok so this may sound crazy, cause it kinda is, but does anyone feel like borrowing a bow and doing lots and lots and lots of shooting to test something?


Why can't you be left handed Jake???? lol


----------



## x-hunta

N7709K said:


> ok so this may sound crazy, cause it kinda is, but does anyone feel like borrowing a bow and doing lots and lots and lots of shooting to test something?


What do you classify as lots and lots and lots of shooting? haha


----------



## N7709K

Josh, why can't you be righty? 

So I know where I sit on the issue but I've also see how the draw gets smoothed out on the back end if I go the the flex rod setup... I don't have time I don't think to put idk 10k shots through the thing am see how it holds up and if the groups respond to it. I'll leave the one I got setup for my use, what little I got but I'm gonna make up another couple for the rest of the fleet should it actually be worth it.

What I'm looking for is someone willing to blaze away all season/through indoor and see how it goes compared to stock. This isn't about torque, lean, any of that stuff, just to see if the benefits in the dfc are backed up by atleast the same groups


----------



## x-hunta

So you are just wanting someone to try out a cable guard for durability/ consistency?


----------



## N7709K

kinda.. was gonna be the full set i was planning on shooting bow wise, maybe bars and such, but as it turns out i may need it for a spare depending on how stuff goes this summer with outdoor.. from the looks of it i won't, but i don't wanna be put in the position where it comes up to needing it and it not being there... plus i don't want to be in a place where it gets damaged in transit or with whoev is testing it(don't want bridger going and bending my riser on me lol)..

if i had a bow that i knew i wasnt gonna be using for a good bit i'd set it up on that and send that one out.. but alas i dont


----------



## x-hunta

wanna at least share some pics? lol


----------



## N7709K

don't got any now, could take some and put it up.. i guess, lol

Aaron, you still on here at all?


----------



## Mathewsju

Are you talking about shaving the cable slide so it bends in at full draw or putting on one of those fancy cable slide mounts? And what exactly are you looking for? Ability to tune, grouping, consistency? 

I've been planning on shaving down my cable slide, I just haven't gotten around to ordering some spares so I can start...the last thing I need is to break my only slide and have to wait a week+ for a new one.


----------



## N7709K

neither josh, way cheaper an easier than both.. only issue is at this point a 27 wouldn't clear.. 23's clear but not the fatties.. so i'm working to get that part figured out


----------



## isaacdahl

Does the alu have enough flex in it to bend back let alone do so with consistency over time?

Will be interesting to see how it works.


----------



## Mathewsju

Maybe I'm just slow but I'd really like to be brought up to speed on what exactly you're talking about Jake...if not publicly, then message me


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> Maybe I'm just slow but I'd really like to be brought up to speed on what exactly you're talking about Jake...if not publicly, then message me



Believe they sand or thin out the cable slide Rod, not the cable slide itself, sanding down just the inside of it making it thinner allowing it to flex. not sanding the outside still gives it the roundness needed for the cable slide.


----------



## isaacdahl

Well I realized I've never posted pics of my Sentinel, so since it was a nice night, I went out and shot a couple.







Here's a closer pic of the stab and some of the weights I made.


----------



## N7709K

shaving the slide is what jesse does, you take one side down to bout 1/8"-3/16" and it adds flex to the carbon.. this is totally diff, josh i'll get some pics up later and you'll see..

Isaac, thats what i'm wondering.. I may be making up a bit stiffer one and see if it works better/clears with a 27


----------



## Mathewsju

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> Believe they sand or thin out the cable slide Rod, not the cable slide itself, sanding down just the inside of it making it thinner allowing it to flex. not sanding the outside still gives it the roundness needed for the cable slide.


Spitting hairs bro, you know what I mean


----------



## N7709K

bridger and aaron did the shaved rods on their hoyts.. don't think either still is tho


----------



## Mathewsju

New point of discussion...pin nock brands. What do yall use? What have you tried?

I've used Bohning for years and I really like them. Still, a good number of people in KY said they were junk and I should switch. Gave it a try and went to Beiters, but since I shoot an under loop the Beiter nocks pinch and fall right off the string. Thinking about maybe trying GT nocks again but they don't look very sturdy, especially compared to my Bohning nocks.


----------



## N7709K

i'm not a big fan of the bohning pins, used gt pins in the past and they worked just fine.. i'm gonna be going to something that requires pins, prob gt.. so i'll get some soma pins if they will let me due to color.. or jut gt hd nocks due to larger strand count..

how you got your loop tied josh


----------



## isaacdahl

I've never shot pins, just uni bushings and such, but I remember ready countless threads about gt pin nocks being complete junk. Many people moved on the Bohning and liked them much better, though in all fairness, I do remember hearing a few complaints about bohning coming out with a couple bad batches in a few colors too.

Do a search in the general discussions and you will find what I'm talking about.


----------



## super*

Thats exactly right the solid colored nocks seem to crack but the clear colored nocks work great. Josh its all personal prefferance so dont think too hard bout it.


----------



## Sighting In

Only really played with G pins, but I haven't had any problems with them as of yet. Tons of guys in my area shoot the Beiters (symmetrical) and love them too. 

I thought Jessee used that German rod that was kind of like a FLX guard. Did he say shaving it made any real difference for him? I'd like to hear more from Bridge and Arron on theirs. If they don't still use it...


----------



## x-hunta

I used Soma nocks last year and have no complaints with them. Based upon availability to me I decided to try some GT HD pin nocks last fall and I am still using them currently. Haven't seen any reason to change it since it seems to work just fine. They did have some issues mainly with an additive for the transparent nocks although some of the solid nocks were bad too. They have the issue fixed pretty good IMO.


----------



## N7709K

jesse goes back and forth between a shaved rod, his arc tech, a shoot thru system... sometimes even a best steel one they all work as long as you can shoot and it doesn't seem like one is leaps and bounds above the rest or he'd stop playin

hit him up tho adam, he's really easy to talk to


----------



## Sighting In

I might do that. He was just a few butts away from me at AZ cup, but I never got the chance to say hi. I did talk to Reo, Braden and Dave for a while and asked a few questions. All nice guys. I think I might ask him a few things and get his take on the rod question.


----------



## N7709K

Hit him up on fb, that's what I did when i was thinking about setting up a low mount


----------



## N7709K

figured out parts of my shooting issues lately and have started to get them fixed, lol... found if i make sure my form is right at 50m the groups shrink and the scores go way up

now to just get some arrows for outdoor


----------



## N7709K

going to get my level 2 coaching cert tomorrow, booyah!


----------



## N7709K

new arrows showed up, so far so good.. don't have enough to shoot outdoors with tho, so i gotta wait to "test" them until may with the state joad shoot


----------



## N7709K

Well my pro run may be limited for the next couple seasons... School stuff got screwed around and I'm movin back north in aug to get ready for school... So it's gonna be an interesting run


----------



## Mathewsju

N7709K said:


> Well my pro run may be limited for the next couple seasons... School stuff got screwed around and I'm movin back north in aug to get ready for school... So it's gonna be an interesting run


Welcome to my life lol


----------



## isaacdahl

You gonna be doing some college stuff or what Jake?


----------



## isaacdahl

Don't think I'm gonna make it to the April shoot next weak...can't even pull my bow back with it cranked down most of the way. I know I should just drop the gym for a month or two but I can't make myself do it. Shooting bow's about the only thing that makes it hurt enough not to do.


----------



## pikemaster

Okay ive got a form question for you guys.. recently ive been smackin my armpretty good which isnt normal at all for me. Ive always shot with a very straight arm but have never had this problem. I know youre supposed t have a slight bend but if i do that i cant hold steady at all. I double checked my grip to see if it was okay with a couple different people too. Any suggestions on what it might be?.


----------



## isaacdahl

Most likely your draw length is a little long. Actually, though some people say you should have a slight bend in your elbow, I disagree. Not saying your arm should be hyperextended but it should be comfortable, yet you need bone to bone contact to be able to hold steady...it takes a lot of the pressure off the muscle and transfers it to the bone which obviously is a lot more stable.

Tweak your draw stop or cables a little until you get the best hold and you no longer have string slap. If it hasn't bothered you to much in the past and you've been shooting well, it's probably not to far off. It's pretty obvious where it should be once you get it there.


----------



## N7709K

need pics to help with form


----------



## Sighting In

My immediate thought would be the grip. Make sure it's at the right angle. If your grip is fine, and you're still hitting it, try rolling your elbow up a tad. Don't bend it or anything, just turn the angle so it points away from the bow, and that should help you clear. We're not talking about a lot, just a bit of a roll up to get it out of the way.


----------



## underdog145

Try opening up your stance a litttle bit. that should help.


----------



## pikemaster

Am i able to upload several pictures on here?


----------



## isaacdahl

pikemaster said:


> Am i able to upload several pictures on here?


Should be able to as long as they're not oversized.


----------



## N7709K

pics would help...

the info given by a couple above is correct, but without a visual.. or some feedback we can't help any. there could be several reasons and solutions, but some may be better than others


----------



## N7709K

well went back to injexion's and am gonna get pins for them... they shoot too good, last one for score was a 352/360 at 50m


----------



## isaacdahl

Nice jake, if I needed some new arrows I'd sure be looking at those..heard a lot of good things. You've been shooting at all lately? I haven't been able to shoot for about 6 weeks (shoulder problems still) but luckily not being able to shoot hasn't killed me yet haha. 

Anybody have any tips for tuning binaries? Timing marks are on but it sure isn't as quiet as I'd like... my 101st was quieter. Yeah I know, it doesn't really matter as long as it shoots well, but it's still driving me crazy. Plus, I got my press finished today and need to try it out lol.


----------



## N7709K

i've been shooting a bit, not as much as i would like but a bit.. been shooting consistent groups at 50m and decent scores... got some new arrows coming and some components for mine


----------



## N7709K

Irony as Adam pointed out, is getting set up with new(new to me) arrows and then hearing from Tim bout staff... Some say stick with what I got (Kim, part of me now, mom, etc) and some say go for it (chuck, etc)... So depending on what I hear back I may be makin a really tough choice

Bridger- kim's idea was just sweet-talk my way in with Logan and have Easton set me up lol, I'd be super happy if all they would do me is pins and nocks


----------



## x-hunta

N7709K said:


> Irony as Adam pointed out, is getting set up with new(new to me) arrows and then hearing from Tim bout staff... Some say stick with what I got (Kim, part of me now, mom, etc) and some say go for it (chuck, etc)... So depending on what I hear back I may be makin a really tough choice
> 
> Bridger- kim's idea was just sweet-talk my way in with Logan and have Easton set me up lol, I'd be super happy if all they would do me is pins and nocks


I know the feeling of choosing arrows, went from ACE to Ultralight Pros to Protours to Nanos to Carbon1s(right price right time). Think I am gonna swap back to Nanos though, just ridiculously durable.
I would say stick with what works for now, although I hear GT is coming out with a new FITA arrow soon. I would definitely go with Kinetics if you switched though, I shot some Ultralights for a bit last year and went though them pretty quick even after I threw pins in them. I am told the kinetics are more durable.

On another note, I might be coming down for JOAD nationals, might be nice to see some of the faces behind the names even though I have really only floated around here for a while.


----------



## N7709K

I was plannin on making that trip, but life and work got in the way.. I'll make it next year tho, least should be able to...

If you make it down you'll run into a few of the guys from on here


----------



## Sighting In

Just registered for it last night. I'll be there


----------



## Mathewsju

Finally reflectched my arrows and went to put on new pin nocks. 7 pins ended up coming out with the nocks themselves. Never using GoatTuff again! On the bright side, that's probably the reason my arrows were grouping weird.


----------



## N7709K

dude, ya don't glue pins in with anything else than hot melt.. and even then it can be tough to get them out


----------



## N7709K

you get one of those torqueless loops rigged up ya there boss?


----------



## Mathewsju

I'm aware, but I didn't have access (and still don't) to hotmelt and a torch, mostly the torch. And yea, still rockin the torqueless loops. Gotta love em!


----------



## underdog145

I used super glue all last year. Just rough up the pin a little with pliers before you put em in. A little goes a long way. Although, I will agree that hot melt works much better.


----------



## N7709K

But what didn't you fix with superglue?


----------



## Mathewsju

His riser...gotta use JB weld for that lol


----------



## isaacdahl

lol


----------



## N7709K

If I go Mathews, I'm bondo-ing the grip and making it a bit more normal


----------



## Mathewsju

WHAT?!?!?! Mr Hoyt is thinking of jumping ship?

JK they are really nice bows...if I was offered I'd shooting one in a heartbeat


----------



## N7709K

mr.hoyt just likes to try stuff if offered.. and mr.hoyt has found a way to get a mathews grip to feel similar to a hoyt grip after its been taped


----------



## Mathewsju

Which bow?


----------



## N7709K

c4, played with one in vegas for 3 shots.. would have shot more if i had my release that i could draw the bow with- Bridger, how hard would you have laughed if I had decked myself shooting your release?


----------



## isaacdahl

Dif subject but if any one wants a really good grip on their release you should try plasti dip. I had a ton left over from my bow press project so I dipped my release and I must say so far it's a lot better than hockey tape. Its even more tacky but doesn't leave a bunch of black crap all over your hands. Don't know how durable it will be in the long run, but it can't be any worse than tape....plus you get way mote than enough when you buy a can so you can always redip if need be.

Just something interesting I thought I'd throw out there.


----------



## N7709K

wraps and vanes showed up so i'm building up injexion's how they should be done, minus the pins.. .still waitin on those to get in at the shop, pics comin in a bit


----------



## N7709K

tours showed up yesterday, fletched up 3 of them to see how they do.. haven't been able to shoot them outdoors yet, but at 10yds fletch group with bare shaft.

I got wraps and vanes coming for them so here soon i can really try them out


----------



## isaacdahl

What's these "tours" you speak of?


----------



## N7709K

pro tours, got 18 of them in.. waiting on wraps from custommadewraps and then nocks from LAS


----------



## isaacdahl

Nice, so what are you gonna do with the injexions...just compare to the pt's?


----------



## underdog145

I'll let you know how they compare to the pro tours. Haha. Jake and I made a trade. He needed some outdoor arrows, I needed some whitetail spears.


----------



## SimonAllen

Sword Titan is 12 clicks per turn and only 4 turns per inch. The Lancaster Archery web page says 10-23 threads. 
At 48 clicks per inch ,and the Sword Titan sight set 1m from the peep on a FITA 18m (20y) range this equates to 9.5mm (0.4") between clicks at the target. 
If it was 10-32 thread as advertised the difference between clicks is 1.42mm (0.05") at 18m (20y). 
If Lancaster won't take it back AND refund the postage for the return I will be selling it here.


----------



## N7709K

SimonAllen said:


> Sword Titan is 12 clicks per turn and only 4 turns per inch. The Lancaster Archery web page says 10-23 threads.
> At 48 clicks per inch ,and the Sword Titan sight set 1m from the peep on a FITA 18m (20y) range this equates to 9.5mm (0.4") between clicks at the target.
> If it was 10-32 thread as advertised the difference between clicks is 1.42mm (0.05") at 18m (20y).
> If Lancaster won't take it back AND refund the postage for the return I will be selling it here.


pretty sure you got the wrong section, but 1m from peep to pin is a LONG ways.. i've run mine way out there and maybe hit 34" peep to pin and it take 20 something clicks to move a 2315 from one side of the x to the other at 18m.. also the 10-32 thread is for the scope rod, not the sight...


----------



## SimonAllen

Yup, I got the wrong section, don't know how that happened.
Thanks for your input.
Agree about the distance peep to sight, I used the 1m as an example, the real distance is less so the exaggeration at 18m is even more! As you can see with the Titan, in two clicks I have crossed the X. This was not what I was expecting from a "target" sight.


----------



## isaacdahl

Man, that's a good trade you got there Jake! What else you got up for trade Bridger lol?

SimonAllen,
Yeah, I wasn't impressed with the sword titan either...there's much better stuff out there for the price if you're willing to go used.


----------



## underdog145

isaacdahl said:


> Man, that's a good trade you got there Jake! What else you got up for trade Bridger lol?
> 
> SimonAllen,
> Yeah, I wasn't impressed with the sword titan either...there's much better stuff out there for the price if you're willing to go used.


Haha. I might actually have a couple TRU Ball releases and a couple AX 3000s at the end of the year.


----------



## Mathewsju

What ya want in trade or prices? I need another sight for sure 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


----------



## N7709K

wraps and vanes showed up for the tours today.. still waiting for nocks and pins for the injexions (shop is way to slow on this count), but i got them fletched up and i found some nocks so i can atleast shoot them a little... so far so good, got pics up on FB


----------



## muzzyman1212

I know this is on the spots thread. Anyhow I shot a sweet 3d course today called cherokee bowhunters in Neosho,Mo its about and hour away from me. I didnt shoot that great but it was a blast plus I got to talk to chris berry again. He said it was as good as a national level course. So I defiantly wanna go back there next month it was awesome I have missed 3d so much.


----------



## isaacdahl

Nice, sounds like a good time!

Did you ever get your new target bow?


----------



## N7709K

got the tour's all built up, so far so good.. found some old bohning nocks i had so i got something i can shoot them with a little bit, but i can't get to high volume yet.

got them made up with custommadewraps brady ellison shoot for a cure customs and 175 titeflite easton vanes. made up a new set of injexions (still waiting on pins and nocks) with the same wraps but 175 diamond vanes.. haven't gotten the time to really test either set of arrows yet, but now that school's over and i got time at my cabin they are gonna get put through their paces...


----------



## Bow Predator

What is everybody shootin for indoor? Arrow, point weight, overall weight, vanes, etc? Thanks


----------



## N7709K

2315: 30.5" shaft, 100gr Easton Glue in tip (wish rod would make 100gr pro points for 2315's), micro lites, 3" easton diamond vanes with some right offset/helical, custommadewraps... no idea on finished weight, speed, any of that just shoot em. I've shot the same shafts with 200gr pro points/ 200gr pro points and 2.25" x vanes/ 100gr and 2.25" x vanes and they will all shoot vegas 300's but the x count was best with diamond vanes and 100's


----------



## Sighting In

This year I shot 2312's, I think about 28" cut, 3d uni nock. Can't remember how much point weight I had, I think around 120 or so. I rocked 4" shield cut feathers this year, rh helical.


----------



## x-hunta

29.5'' shaft CXL Pro 350, 180gr pro point pins, pin nocks, wraps and flex fletch 310s with as much offset and helical as possible. I think they came into around 460 when I checked weight consistency, not even a single grain out across the dozen  
They even group nice out to 70m :wink:


----------



## Bow Predator

Thanks! I am shootin gold tip triple x pros for indoor. With a 150 g. tip. overall weight around 400. Cut around 29. With normal blazer vanes.


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Nice, sounds like a good time!
> 
> Did you ever get your new target bow?


Yeah ive had a supra me for a few months now it shoots awesome.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Here she is. Frank is her name.


----------



## N7709K

shoot any scores with her?

i got my low mount all setup and tightened down, shoots well enough i got parts coming to make a second one.

in other news when i'm kick over 10k i'm gonna hang it up on here it looks like


----------



## muzzyman1212

Well the best 5 spot ive got is a 296 41x and on that 40 target 3d course with no 14s I got a 387. That was the first of the year so I hope to improve.


----------



## N7709K

nothing wrong with either score, those are good


----------



## underdog145

You gonna show up at any outdoor stuff dude so we can see them arrows in action? haha.


----------



## N7709K

not sure yet boss, i'll see how work and the summer goes. I'm going to a local outdoor shoot, but as for national stuff i can't say


----------



## N7709K

played with the tours a bit today at 50m.. so far they are awesome.. first group was a hair over 3" with one that I shanked bad, on a 80cm face woulda been 60 with 4 or 5x's


----------



## underdog145

You should shoot the MN open dude. I'll be there. Haha.


----------



## N7709K

If I'm home I might hit it up


----------



## N7709K

Well it looks like i'll try and make it boss.. i gotta come home for school by the 27th of aug. I'll have to get moved in for school and it would be nice to have a little time back home before I have to go to school.. so I may come back a couple days before/ day before.

when you driving up for it?


----------



## isaacdahl

What school did you decide on, Jake?


----------



## N7709K

i'm headed to a tech college in Thief River Falls, MN.. going for A&P, should be fun

Gonna try hard to get a collegiate archery program started to help with the travel costs....

http://www.northlandcollege.edu


----------



## Mathewsju

Start working on getting the program started now or it won't be done until next year. Plus you'll have more time now than once you're in school


----------



## isaacdahl

Nothing wrong with a tech college, I'll be going to our local tech college in the fall to finish up highschool. Got one English class left than I can graduate!


----------



## N7709K

I'm looking into what it takes now, but I gotta talk to some people on both ends first


----------



## underdog145

I will probably just drive up the day of. No need to get 2 nights in a hotel for a 5 hour drive. Maybe we'll go out to eat or somethin of the like saturday night.


----------



## N7709K

Heard back from gillingham today on gt staff... Not sure how I wanna proceed yet. Tours are rockin, 2315's are rockin, got wraps and everything for those... But at the same time it's a door that can lead to bigger an better things


----------



## underdog145

In all honesty, Gold Tip makes great arrows. And it may work out that much better seeing that you also shoot Stingers. Just be sure to map them arrows when you get em. haha.


----------



## underdog145

Ok, settling a bit of a dispute. You are getting a LEFT tear through paper, which way do you move your rest?


----------



## N7709K

Should go left with the rest I they are spined right for the bow and it's not a grip issue. Atleast left will be more forgiving to the shooter. Moving the rest right may make the tear better but if you end up going to the inside of center it will cause issues.

I know they are good arrows, just not sure if it's the best choice yet


----------



## N7709K

heard back from gillingham about staff the other day.. now comes the fun part, deciding what I want to run for arrows this season... I know i need some 22's for sure and then some outdoor stuff, but thats bout it

I'm up in the air on XXX's, i know they shoot awesome, but I'm just not sure if I wanna go back to fat shafts.

Either way, its time for a pro point order, lol


----------



## scott&devin

hey guys i recently switched over too b stinger and im shooting a c4 for indoors and mr6 for outdoors how long what weight etc.... also im 14 years old shooting 60 pounds 26.5 on the mr6 and 27 on the c4 for draw length if that makes a difference


----------



## isaacdahl

First we need to know what class you intend to shoot..


----------



## N7709K

30" main with 15 back for the c4 4oz on the main 8-10oz on the back

Have you been shooting with a full set before?


----------



## scott&devin

ok thanks and yes i had a 24 and 12 with my aeps


----------



## N7709K

did you have the other set tuned in? or just on there with some weights here and there on the bars?


----------



## N7709K

headed off to state outdoor this weekend, hoping to make some money this weekend. The weather is supposed to be good, little windy but not too bad... hoping for 890-900's,but we'll see what happens

if you want a place to crash for that shoot in aug bridge, i live lots closer than you do lol and got a bed you can claim if you want it


----------



## underdog145

Man, I would really appreciate it. How many of them new releases are you planning on ordering? haha.


----------



## N7709K

Plan on that then, I'm gonna try and make it home for the shoot.

Oh two or three... Ordering one as soon and I got the $$$, so Monday hopefully lol


----------



## Sighting In

I'd love to get my hands on a few of those, too, but don't have the money either. I love the HT design a lot and have always shot it, so I haven't had much chance to see if I like the brass.


----------



## isaacdahl

What's this new release?


----------



## x-hunta

HT Pro brass, same as the HT just made of brass so it is heavier. Reo posted pictures of his on facebook.


----------



## N7709K

ordered up a 3m this am.. should be here in a couple weeks


----------



## isaacdahl

Sounds like it should be good seller.


----------



## N7709K

Eh maybe... The downside is the price... They are SPENDY, msrp is $220, my price is a bit better but still a good chunk.

It looks like I'll have my two main releases then, bt gold pro ultra 4 for indoors/outdoors and a 3m pro ht for fita stuff and more outdoor. Gotta try and get my absolutes rockin again not that I changed my shot a bit. Ended up 3rd this weekend, coulda don't better but I made a good comeback and closed the gap a ton; woulda moved up more if we had got to shoot 60yds, but it got called due to rain


----------



## isaacdahl

Dang, that is spendy for a hinge...


----------



## N7709K

It all depends on what you feel your game is worth


----------



## N7709K

here are some pics from the weekend's shoot... had a great time and didn't do all that bad.

the pic of the targets is my bales(29's) first group at 60yds, I have some other pics up on FB of some better groups or close ups if y'all wanna see em


----------



## archerykid13

Very nice group Jacob!


----------



## N7709K

Headed off for the summer tomorrow... Honestly, I can't wait til I'm back at work and can't wait til I'm crashing on kim's couch for a couple days. Got 6weeks to make some college money.

So I decided to head to the central mn open, Bridger done talked me into it. Now hopefully I got time to get new arrows built, tuned, and sighted in the night before lol. Look like arrow parts and tools are in order


----------



## underdog145

Dude, one night is way too much time. haha. Its not like were shootin a full field course, which really wouldnt be that bad in setting up for either. haha. Make like, 3 arrows, sight in, group tune em, and them make the others and your good to go. haha. All after were done bass fishin of course. haha.


----------



## N7709K

We can fish when ever, lol. So that guy I got ya lined out with just had his lower unit fail; housing failed either before or after bearings and gearing. Gonna have a brand new lower when you go out with him, probably will pick up one or two mph as well.


----------



## N7709K

Ordered arrows last night through Tim, getting some 22's and some hand picked kinetics, booyah! Now to just order wraps, vanes, nocks, and some pro points... Along with some goodies for the bow as well

How early ya thinkin bout heading up? Just wanna know so I'm home, lol


----------



## underdog145

once i get my schedule for work, ill let you know. Might end up stayin for a couple days afterwords instead too.


----------



## N7709K

That works for me dude, make yourself at home and stay as long as you want


----------



## Mathewsju

Jake and Bridger...I was looking for an Axcel staff app and all I found was the TRUBall staff app and it says you gotta shoot their releases. Is it a package deal or can you do like either or?


----------



## N7709K

You can do one or the other, but they prefer if you do both.


----------



## Mathewsju

But then is there a different app or is it the same one for either/both?


----------



## muzzyman1212

I know this is hunting related but I would rather ask yall than start a thread and have everyone chime in. So I have started thinkin about huntin arrows for next year and I was wonderin what yall thought. I like a arrow between 370-400 grains I need a 400 spine and I like atleast .003 straitness but that really doesnt matter. I was thinkin fmjs but theyre really heavy same with gt kinetic xts. So then I was thinkin gt veocitys but theyre to light so i dont know what to get. Regular xt hunters I have had those in the past and just wanna try somethin new so what do yall think.


----------



## N7709K

A 28" camo fmj 400 with wrap and blazers weights 420grs if I remember right, so they arent too heavy. I'd look into gt xt or pro hunters in 55/70


----------



## tim15328

this thread seperates the men from the boys ahahaha


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> A 28" camo fmj 400 with wrap and blazers weights 420grs if I remember right, so they arent too heavy. I'd look into gt xt or pro hunters in 55/70


Yeah I reckon 420 wouldnt be to bad.


----------



## N7709K

Not bad at all, I really liked the ones I had


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Not bad at all, I really liked the ones I had


Im really liking the kinetic xts they look a little lighter and really nice.


----------



## N7709K

Started workin yesterday after a bad start to the trip (text me if you wanna know bout it).. Spent 16hr's in an engine room getting exhaust done before a coast guard inspection today.. Got home at 2am, had to be back over at the boat this am with parts at 8:15 ish.. After we splashed the boat and got the 55gal drums loaded, coasties did their bit and we knocked off. 

Ended up swinging an 8lb maul for a couple hrs splitting concrete off pipe while waiting for Kim to get home... Moral of the story:

BRIDGER, I CANNOT WAIT FOR THAT SHOOT AND FISHING


----------



## isaacdahl

Sounds like fun Jake haha.

I replaced some parts on a CAT D7 then raked straw rest of the day. Everything went smooth luckily!


----------



## muzzyman1212

I shot 14 points up today an won the shoot in the mens division. It was 64 shots total I was happy with how I did and today is my birthday. I only got 1 8 the whole time and 23 12s.


----------



## N7709K

Good shooting bud!

I took a chunk outta my right index finger today at work... Gonna be fun shooting when I get home lol


----------



## underdog145

Your bass fishing spot has a lot to live up to Jacob. Haha. Caught some awesome smallies on the Missouri river in yankton this weekend.


----------



## N7709K

Well... It's not really MY spot, I haven't been there but I know it's a good spot judging off of the tourney wins the dude your going with has got


----------



## underdog145

Wait, so im not even goin fishin with you? whats up with that? haha


----------



## N7709K

I'll probably be swimming for the boat... Again lol! Nah I'll be there, but I'm not gonna be runnin the boat, he won't let me


----------



## N7709K

Anyone know anything bout paint? Specifically boat paint? 

Apparently bottom paint is mildly acidic or basal and reacts slowly when it gets on your skin causing some pretty bad chemical burns... Of course I'm told this after I got done painting... MEK and nitrate thinners take it off atleast

Anyhow i managed to work a couple days off after knocking out the paint on the boat, ended up going over to visit friends, it's good to get away but I'm on call still


----------



## N7709K

Rebuilt a carb this am for a friends truck... Got it runnin but it still has issues

Bridger what would you say for a left tear on a lefty rig with arrows tuning right down the middle? Arrows are on the weak side, but group ok


----------



## archerykid13

Poured 1000 sq. of concrete last week and tore off and reshingled 3 roofs. So this is my vacation week in Minnesota haha.


----------



## underdog145

Group tuning is where its at. Who cares how the arrow leaves. If it groups well, it will shoot well.


----------



## Sighting In

N7709K said:


> Rebuilt a carb this am for a friends truck... Got it runnin but it still has issues
> 
> Bridger what would you say for a left tear on a lefty rig with arrows tuning right down the middle? Arrows are on the weak side, but group ok


That would be mine, btw. lol Walk back tune perfect, centershot dead on, and it shoots a bullet hole with my 2312s, so it's not the bow or the archer.


----------



## N7709K

Preach it Bridger! Preach it!


----------



## Sighting In

Just ran some numbers on it. Pinwheel says I'd need to drop a lb in draw weight, cut an inch off, and take off 10 grains up front to get them perfect. That's a lot of changing to my arrows, and they really do group well. But then again, how good could they group...


----------



## N7709K

Adam, don't worry too much bout could be

Injexion 330's 28.5" with diamond vanes, pins, and 120gr's front shoot the same scores and groups as 28.5" 420 pro tours with tightflites, pins, and 120gr up front... One is stiff and one is weak


----------



## N7709K

You still shoot any 3d Bridger?


----------



## underdog145

Nope. Might try gettin back into it and shooting some asa's.


----------



## N7709K

Ah ok, would you be up for tryin and hitting one up in mn while your there?


----------



## archerykid13

I'm down Jacob. I know you weren't talking to me though haha.


----------



## x-hunta

Wheres the love for field boys!?!?!


----------



## underdog145

Im a field kinda guy. Love shootin it, just dont like how i have to drive 3 hours to get to a course. And i wouldnt mind, as long as my tape from Mechanicsberg is still good. haha.


----------



## Mathewsju

Who's all going to Mechanicsburg? I'm guessing you are Bridger.

Is it worth it? Field is definitely my favorite type of shoot but I'm having serious trouble figuring out if its worth it or not...


----------



## x-hunta

Field is definitely my favorite. Only have one official round under my belt this year, shot a 505 with my 2nd and 3rd axis off all day no matter what I did.
First target on a hunter was I think the 65yd, 1" group just out right. Same story through the round even though I kept moving sight right. Last target 21/19 all touching just out right. My buddy and his dad told me if I were on centre that it coulda easily been 540 round but oh well, need to keep up on your equipment. :wink:


----------



## N7709K

Ok guys, this is kinda outta left field but I need some help...

What do you do/would you do if you lost your biggest influence in archery and the reason your in the sport? Would you keep at it and keep alive what they fostered or would you hang it up?


----------



## isaacdahl

Definitely keep it alive and pass on the sport to younger generations and people around you. New archers need good influences too!


----------



## archerykid13

Just keep it up Jake. He would've wanted you to. You can text me if you want to talk bro.


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## Sighting In

What happened, bro? You can text me if you don't want to share it here.

As for your question, I think it depends on why you are still doing it now. Do you still love shooting? Then stay. If you were just in it for that one person, and that's not a factor anymore, then maybe there isn't any more reason to stay. But from what I can see, you have a lot going for you.


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## N7709K

To be honest bud, I don't know if I love it as much as it's become a job. I still enjoy shooting and prob always will. It's just seems like there is a big hole when the person who got you into it isn't there in your corner... I think the compounded stress of this past week has got me feeling like this tho

It's kinda one of those things where your good at something and keep it up because you are good at it


----------



## x-hunta

N7709K said:


> To be honest bud, I don't know if I love it as much as it's become a job. I still enjoy shooting and prob always will. It's just seems like there is a big hole when the person who got you into it isn't there in your corner... I think the compounded stress of this past week has got me feeling like this tho
> 
> It's kinda one of those things where your good at something and keep it up because you are good at it


Its up to what you choose as best for you.
If you still enjoy it but feel its tedious work, just keep it as a hobby instead of the intensity of the pro class. Since the pro class really puts alot more pressure on shooters.
I mean by the looks of it you have made some pretty good friends from what I see on here. But then again I'm pretty sure these guys would still be your friends even if you weren't shooting.
Also you have done a lot of hard work to get to the point you are now, and you are beginning to reap the benefits of that.
But if there is no enjoyment at all, stop, what would you be gaining if you weren't enjoying it?
I hope that you still continue to shoot if you find a shred of enjoyment in it still but I mean I hardly know you except from what I see on here, its your choice and I am sure everyone here would support you either way.


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## N7709K

It's not the pressure of being pro, to be honest the pressure is less the responsibility is just more. I do enjoy it, but it just seems more like a job now, scores are now of importance...

A little more info on what's happening- my best friend, back oh 10yrs ago got me started in this. Her dad had a bow shop and she was in the local joad club. She took me with a few times and it stuck... We lost touch for 7or so years and when we got back in touch things went kinda fast on both sides and she fell for me, I fell harder for her... Well we knew nothin would come of it, but its kinda gone back and forth for a while. The past few months she and I have been fighting a bit and it kinda blew up a week or so ago... It's worked out now and we are still very good friends. She got busy with work to pay off student loans and other things and has more or less given up shooting, so my biggest support outside my mom is hanging it up... And that's it in a nutshell


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## muzzyman1212

Well I dont know you personal man and I dont know if I have a place to chime in on this. But if I were you I would contiue to shoot but not quite as a pro I dont know if you could do that with your sponserships but if not I would just continue shooting and you will get out of this "slump" to say. I mean I know ive worked hard to get where I am and i couldnt imagine theoughing it away. And im not even half as to where you are so im sure youe worked harder than me so its just a lot to think about. Sorry for ramblin on.


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## archerykid13

I know how much you love you shooting Jake. But if that person was the only reason you were in it was her and she's out then it's up to you. We can't make the right decision for you. But whatever choice you make is right for you.


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## N7709K

They were the only reason, it's just the support they gave... Be she promise to come cheer me and USA on when i make world team, lol.

Trey, least I think your name is trey, if not I apologize.. I'm terrible with names. Anyway I've lost count of the hours I've put into the sport to get to where I'm at. It's been a tough road of blood sweat and tears (Aaron, Adam, Bridger know some of what I've gone through- least I think they do lol) and I do mean blood sweat and tears- I got a handful of scars, no pun intended. There is a sayin that goes "it takes a thousand hours of repeating a movement to get it down fully and have it become more or less natural", I probably have 3000 hours into my form and my short game alone, closer to 4000 if I add in tuning and getting to know equip. Thousand hours doesn't sound like a super huge number, but it's roughly 3hrs a day every day for a year... Now I'm
Not trying to brag by the time I got into this so don't take it like that.

On another note I made some studs for doing Hoyt lowmounts without drilling and tapping the riser to 5/16-24 today... It was a bit of a pain but I got a couple done


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## underdog145

Dude, gotta keep doin it. Just because of the little bit I do actually know you, you have such a passion for the sport that is unreal dude. You may not win every shoot, and you may not be the best guy out there, but how you deal with other guys and how much you wanna help people is second to none. Heck, I wouldnt be where I am now if not for you a little bit man. 

Plus, you wont be able to see me as much. And who wouldnt wanna see me? Haha.


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## N7709K

Lol thanks bud, ya should get to know me more... There is more that I can do than shoot a bow lol, like fix boats


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## N7709K

i wanna thank everyone for being supportive, its really helped. Its been nice to hear what y'all have had to say and all that.

Bridger- thanks Bro, to hear that from you really means a lot


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## isaacdahl

No problem Jake. That's a friends job.. plus it's true. I've learned more from you than anyone else on AT in the last couple years.


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## N7709K

Looks like the choice mighta been made for me with school... Looks like two years off, maybe more depends on how much of an impact the first two have


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## Mathewsju

Never discount the importance of a well tuned stab setup. I changed a couple little things and had been struggling to the point where it was starting to mess with my head. 

I played with my rig a little today and took 1 oz off the back and put it on the front. Also brought my side bar in 5 degrees and down 15 degrees. It made a huge difference right off the back (first 4 arrows after I changed it up). Before then I was hitting spot 45% of the time (50cm target at 80 yds).

Definitely looking forward to next week alot more now haha. I just wish I had another 12 oz of singles laying around 









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


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## N7709K

running a weight forward imbalance will lead to better groups almost 100% of the first time, but on a weak shot they will cost you.

stabs are one of, if not, THE most overlooked aspect of a setup. Without a good set of stabs, you will never be able to shoot the scores you are capable of past 20 or 30yds, they sight picture is just too loose; you also cannot fine tune as well without a good set of stabs. when you can tune your sight picture you can move very quickly to a much higher level of form modification because you have 1)the tools to see how very minute changes impact your hold pattern and 2) the hardest part of the equation isolated, the DL. 

what you running for weights on the bars now?


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## underdog145

I actually think that having your bars set up so that you have more weight to the front will be more beneficial in the long run due to the fact that it will lead to having better back pressure and or back "pull" if you will on your shot. Because of that, when done in some sort of moderation, like not jumping straight to reo's set up, you will have better luck. Just need to take the time to fine tune hoe much forward and with how much weight you need and where on your side bars in order to get the perfect set up.


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## Mathewsju

Definitely agree with Bridgers logic, plus you can be more aggressive with your shot then without having to worry about putting one out high. I used to shoot a back heavy bow and it shot well (indoors). I slowly started going to a slight forward setup and now my bow just naturally falls forward and I love it. Right now I've got 19 off the front and 25 off the back

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


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## archerykid13

Good thing i spent 500 bucks on stabs without a bow to use them on.

Jake


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## N7709K

front heavy rigs def work, but you don't want to go excessively heavy because that can cause problems. 19 and 25 is bout all i'd do at your spec, more than that and the mass weight becomes enough that your hold pattern and sight picture can become worse and not better.


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## vern-the-brute

Dang Jake (ak13).. how long have you been without a bow? It seems like you haven't had one for a couple years now?


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## isaacdahl

vern-the-brute said:


> Dang Jake (ak13).. how long have you been without a bow? It seems like you haven't had one for a couple years now?


^^whoops, I guess my dad was logged in.


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## archerykid13

I've got a bow but I have been without a target bow for 2 years. Last one I had was my UE. I've got my RXT, I just think it's a piece of junk. I bought a whole new setup besides the bow. Arrows, points, vanes, new release, sight, stabs, everything and i planned on buying a VE+ from a very gracious person but something came up which was more important than me getting a bow.


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## N7709K

whats everyone think of the NASP program from shooters and those on the outside looking in? Best thing that has happened? just so-so?


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## underdog145

I think it is a crock of (insert profanity here). How many people on here, just as an example, have gotten so interested in archery that they went out and spend 1000+ dollars on a fully set up bow that would actually be consistant enough for tournaments and or powerfull enough to hunt with?

Now, I understand it is somewhat the responsibility of the industry itself for how expensive it is for someone to go out and buy a bow. But, when they go to these "classes" or are integrated in these programs, it is pretty unlikely that there is someone there who can help with the equipment or, sometimes, even the knowlege needed to get started realistically. The thing that should be going on is have a bow shop or a company sponsoring these programs to the point that, if you went through this or that in the program, you can come here and get a bow at 25 or 30 percent off. Or, with the way our state has them, instead of giving a full membership to the person who ranked the highest in the state at the NASP nationals, give them a free bow fully set up. Because, lets be honest. What is better, giving a full membership and a 1000 dollar scholarship to the winner and not requiring them to atcually integrate in the state foundations or, give them membership and a bow so they can experience what "real" archery can be and where it can take you. 

I'm just starting to get into all the national and world shoots, to be perfectly honest, and in just the past 2 years I have been halfway across the world and back and have been through nearly every state in the country. And not once have I been in any of these programs. Now, I understand that some people do go through these and end up where I am now, but not nearly as many as they want you to believe. 

Until we get bigger, richer, more powerful buissnesses and corperations to contribute to archery, it will never grow the way we want it to. Look at the drivers of NASCAR. What is more simple that cars turning left for 500 miles? And yet, it is one of the most profitable professional sports out there. And football and basketball and golf. All the same. Why? Because they went outside of their specific industry to find sponsors. 

That is what will grow archery. More money. With more money comes more publicity. And with more publicity comes more exposure which leads to POPULARITY. Not these programs. 

Not that these programs dont help, but they would help a hell of a lot more when the youngsters who are in them have favorites to look up to. If you dont play golf, you know who Tiger Woods is. If you arent a NASCAR fan, you know who Dale Jr. is and who Jeff Gordon is. 

Once you have something to make these little guys look up to, then they will pursue it themselves and the industry as a whole will benefit.


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## isaacdahl

archerykid13 said:


> I've got a bow but I have been without a target bow for 2 years. Last one I had was my UE. I've got my RXT, I just think it's a piece of junk. I bought a whole new setup besides the bow. Arrows, points, vanes, new release, sight, stabs, everything and i planned on buying a VE+ from a very gracious person but something came up which was more important than me getting a bow.


Ok, gotcha. Makes perfectly good sense.


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## isaacdahl

As far as NASP, I don't think it's a bad thing but like bridger said, it hasn't helped the popularity of the sport all that much. Sure, it's a good thing to get kids out there and learning something new but we still have a long way to go.

And yeah, I don't think most of the instructors would be of much help if a kid were wanting to pursue the sport any farther.


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## N7709K

i'm glad i'm not the only one who doesn't think its worth a damn. The premise is a good idea, but how its run is TERRIBLE and it hinders the growth of the sport, not fosters it. Sure they have like 8k shooters at some of the tourneys, but out of that number maybe 1 percent compete outside of nasp and maybe 5 percent hunt with archery gear. the majority of instructors just take a BAI course and stop there, lots of them don't compete and wouldn't know the first thing about where to turn to start competition. 

If you want the sport to grow state side like it has across the water you need to revamp the entire system. The game as it sits in america is not marketable, there can be no come from behind victories and you have to be perfect to even make the finals; its not watchable as a fan. To get the sport noticed you need to get viewer interest, i.e. you need to bring the fita format to america and run that as the national level shoot format. You have your two day's of qualifiers then a 32man bracket for elim, that is watchable. If you wanted to test the shootoff idea, not that you would need to every shoot you go to tries for shootoffs because people watch, add thursday in vegas to the pro class: pro's shoot their qualifiers thur/fri/sat and sunday is shootoffs. Take the top 32 pro's and have them shoot off down to the last man standing so to speak, i'd watch that, hell we were there til midnight watching world cup shootoffs on satuday.

we aren't gonna get anywhere as far as expansion goes until people just fall behind pro class and trust that their direction is best for the sport, sure the flights/reg classes pay the bills, but the pro's are the draw for sponsors and the potential sponsors... but before that can happen all the pro's need to get on the same page.


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## N7709K

patched a hole in a flex piece exhaust last night with a couple arizona iced tea cans(was gonna use redbull cans but they were kinda small, but between sam and I we went through a 12 pack of em yesterday), piece of tin, and bailing wire. When we left it was not leaking and they ran the boat today for a tour with no calls of it blowing black smoke in the engine room again.

apart from that i've gone through a lot of ups/down on school... looking into a 1 year welding gig, if thats full i'm moving up here and working until i get residency, then school, then work again... its been a pretty rough road, but i think its best.


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## N7709K

Got almost everything figured out, gonna shoot lots, coach lots, and works even more. Got some amazing friends supporting me and it's workin out lol

Other than that, I think the day I get home ima get inked. I'll get pics up tomorrow


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## Mathewsju

Good to hear it buddy! Whatcha thinking for ink? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


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## archerykid13

Glad you got it all figured out Jake! What are you thinking for ink? Mathews Solocam? Hahaha


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## Mathewsju

archerykid13 said:


> Glad you got it all figured out Jake! What are you thinking for ink? Mathews Solocam? Hahaha


I'm gonna laugh if its a Hoyt logo and you end up switching to PSE or something hahaha


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## archerykid13

That'd be hilarious Josh!!!


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## N7709K

Lol, no I ain't getting a Hoyt logo- although now that you mention it, lol


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## archerykid13

Butterfly tattoo?


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## isaacdahl

Get somethin no one else has... like a heart with your mom's name in it lol

jk, I got nothin...


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## archerykid13

Get the same thing Ben has on his rear window "Chubby girls ride for free."


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## N7709K

Ordered me a new quiver today


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## archerykid13

I saw that you ordered an Angel quiver on FB.

Sent from my LG-E739 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2


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## Mathewsju

If you need ideas, I'm surenBen Bridger and Greg would be happy to help


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## N7709K

Dude! Do I even wanna know? I know a ben that sported a tramp stamp for a bit


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## Mathewsju

Ben's was funny, but this latest bit was legen....wait for it, dary! And about as politically incorrect as they come. FB should still have the evidence floating around cyberspace somewhere


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## archerykid13

Ahhhh nice How I Met Your Mother reference Josh!!!


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## underdog145

Yeah... Not my proudest of moments to say the least... Haha.


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## N7709K

Woah! Hold up, you were involved in the ben tramp stamp?


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## Mathewsju

Ok guys, I want some opinions. Right now I'm down to only 1 bow, my gorgeous pink VE+. I'm looking for another bow to be my hunting/backup target bow and I'm kinda stumped as to what to get. I shot a Monster XLR8 2 years ago and absolutely loved it...put up my best field tourny scores with it to date. I'm torn between a MR5 and an AE (about the closest thing Hoyt has to an MR5 and will probably serve a little better as a back up target bow. 

I'm leaning towards the MR5 because I have experience with it previously and it shot very well. 

Thoughts? Ideas? Revelations?


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## isaacdahl

I say go with the MR5 since your comfortable with it and shot good field scores with it in the past.


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## isaacdahl

For people who are currently in college or have applied, what do people at a face-to-face interview want to hear from you? Are small words, take for example, "yep", "ahuh", or "yeah" vs. "yes" going to make or break the deal? Reason I ask is, my parents absolutely flip out if I reply with a yep or ahuh and not a straight up yes. They tell me I'm conveying a bad message about myself to the college and they might not except me because of it? I can see if someone constantly answered with a "gotcha" every single statement, but "yep" seems so relative and close to "yes" that a couple thrown in aren't even going to be noticeable (anyways I talk like that unconsciously). A straight up "Yes" or anything used over and over, question after question, sounds the most annoying to me.

Haha, I know this subject sounds stupid, but it's the truth! What do guys honestly think? I really want to know if I sound stupid when I talk like this lol.


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## archerykid13

Go with the MR5 Josh. It's a great little bow. And to Isaac, I would just answer with a straight yes just to be safe. Most colleges probably won't care but some might.


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## Mathewsju

isaacdahl said:


> For people who are currently in college or have applied, what do people at a face-to-face interview want to hear from you? Are small words, take for example, "yep", "ahuh", or "yeah" vs. "yes" going to make or break the deal? Reason I ask is, my parents absolutely flip out if I reply with a yep or ahuh and not a straight up yes. They tell me I'm conveying a bad message about myself to the college and they might not except me because of it? I can see if someone constantly answered with a "gotcha" every single statement, but "yep" seems so relative and close to "yes" that a couple thrown in aren't even going to be noticeable (anyways I talk like that unconsciously). A straight up "Yes" or anything used over and over, question after question, sounds the most annoying to me.
> 
> Haha, I know this subject sounds stupid, but it's the truth! What do guys honestly think? I really want to know if I sound stupid when I talk like this lol.


There are a few things you need to do...As far as your question, be straight and use proper grammer (yes, no, etc). You will be nervous but try to stay calm and show confidence. The hardest thing I have found is elaborating when asked questions instead of giving one or two word answers to them...they want to know more about you so share it and talk yourself up (aka brag about your achievements in a respectful way). Dress professional and be honest, if you didn't have the best grades but there was a reason like family obligations, etc tell them that and give them the full picture. 

The biggest thing is to be yourself. The interviewers are going through hundreds of interviews, and generally the thing that stands out about a certain one is your personality or a bit of personal information that you shared with them.


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## N7709K

Depends on the school and the program, where I went they didn't care, but I'm also going to a tech school and not a 4 year gig...

Josh, the AE is like the biggest bust Hoyt has had


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## N7709K

Well made it back home... It's nice to see friends but I miss Alaska a ton


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## hollywood88

hey guys, settin up a new to me target bow after being away from spot shooting for about 6 years. needin help on figuring out what arrows to use. my bow is a pse mach 9 with round wheels set at 49 pounds.


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## archerykid13

hollywood88 said:


> hey guys, settin up a new to me target bow after being away from spot shooting for about 6 years. needin help on figuring out what arrows to use. my bow is a pse mach 9 with round wheels set at 49 pounds.


Fat arrows? Skinny arrows?


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## hollywood88

change of plans, its at 38 pounds now. probably gonna have to be skinny-ish. x killers, xjammers, and 2312's didnt do good at all


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## N7709K

I'll be blunt, i sucked at this past tourney. That said, for not shooting in 7 weeks, a new release, busted sight, new arrows, and new format I'm happy with my score just upset at myself for blowing my first match when i should have won.

To get where i'm at and a few of ya know where that is, i've put in thousands of hours of practice if not tens of thousands and lots of blood sweat and tears. I got lots of scars from my bows or building arrows, had a few fat lips and bloody noses, and broken down to tears several times with the most recent being this past october. With my hoyts and my grip, the cutout on the left side of the shoot through catches my third knuckle on my left index finger, every shot it smokes it when the bow falls forward and away... moral of the story, sometimes you gotta tough out the pain to get the desired result; without support from friends and family its difficult but if something is of value to you, you need to give it your all.


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## Mathewsju

Alright, what do yall use for grip take? I've been using black althletic/hockey tape, but since I rewrapped my grip I've noticed my hand moving when it is wet...thinking of trying something with more of a rubbery feel but I don't want a thick layer between my hand and the riser.


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## archerykid13

I just use athletic tape Josh. Maybe check out the wrap for baseball bats.


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## Sighting In

I use a layer of athletic tape, and then wrap tennis tape around that. The athletic tape is just to give the tennis tape something grippy to hold onto. If you do it that way, it's not going to move, just make sure you wrap it tight.


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## N7709K

athletic tape isn't gonna be any diff from what you got now josh, except it will get gummy with use.

How did you like the grip on my bow when you shot it?


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## N7709K

new sight showed up today, gonna go get in early next week after a little money comes in.. shot a 326 the other day with 22's, first half sucked but my rest was set inside for outdoor arrows. ended up with 586 fita, which isn't too bad for 22's, 23's woulda had me a few more inner 10's but not a ton.


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## Mathewsju

I like yours a good deal Jake. I'm just thinking about going with something with a more rubbery feel rather than fabric...

On another note I finally got my sight, and as an added bonus the scope that came with it fits my 8x! (My scope finally won't be all bent to hell Jake) Gonna go play and see how XXX's fly today.


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## N7709K

I run straight tennis overgrip on mine am it's like a wrap and a half, so you can use that an wrap it thinner.


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## Aaron Groce

the rubbery ones streach too much with age and shooting u wont like it so much. just try a diff brand of hokey tape.


----------



## isaacdahl

So for the coffee drinkers out there, what's your favorite blend? I emptied a bag that someone got us from the Dominican Republic, so now I need something to replace it with.

Btw, I like strong coffee but don't like anything acidic or bitter. I like it strong and black, but smooth.


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## N7709K

If you can find it, kaladi brothers is pretty good


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## isaacdahl

Awesome, I'll keep my eyes open. 

Anyone have more ideas?


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## N7709K

thats all i got, i grew up with strong coffee and that moved into what you can get as a mech which is usually not the best, kinda burnt, and always black


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## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> So for the coffee drinkers out there, what's your favorite blend? I emptied a bag that someone got us from the Dominican Republic, so now I need something to replace it with.
> 
> Btw, I like strong coffee but don't like anything acidic or bitter. I like it strong and black, but smooth.


Look for a Columbian dark roast Isaac.


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## isaacdahl

Well I ended up just getting Seattle's best level 3 which is strong (to the point that there`s a slightly burnt taste) but its not acidic or unpleasant. Its just alright but I think it may grow on me after a few cups. I thought of getting a Columbian roast but I was unsure of the exact taste (haven't had much of it).

Btw I went to a 3d shoot today. Didn't do very well so i just took it as practice and didn't bother turning in my score card.


----------



## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> Well I ended up just getting Seattle's best level 3 which is strong (to the point that there`s a slightly burnt taste) but its not acidic or unpleasant. Its just alright but I think it may grow on me after a few cups. I thought of getting a Columbian roast but I was unsure of the exact taste (haven't had much of it).
> 
> Btw I went to a 3d shoot today. Didn't do very well so i just took it as practice and didn't bother turning in my score card.


Columbian tastes real strong which is how I like mine.


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## isaacdahl

archerykid13 said:


> Columbian tastes real strong which is how I like mine.


Ahh, that's kinda what I remembered about it. Yeah, I like mine medium to slightly strong... to bitter and I start adding creamer haha.


----------



## isaacdahl

Well I got hired at a local butchers this week... I start tomorrow. I applied for this job like 2 years ago so I wasn't really expecting it, but hey I've always wanted to work there so I couldn't turn it down.

I don't think I'm gonna be hunting much this year. I really wanted to have a good season (which for me to be productive it takes at LEAST 3 outings a week, unless I get lucky of course). I got 10 credit hours of college and butt loads of homework, plus this new job, church, music practices, and a gym membership that still has about 4 months left on it. Dang, I'm gonna be busy.

Ahh, what happened to the days when I was in elementary school and had little to no homework, and did nothing but goof off and get good grades lol? Life moves on I guess...


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## N7709K

wonder how long these last 70 posts are gonna last, lol


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## isaacdahl

So you're saying for sure you're gonna be outta here once ya hit 1000?


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## muzzyman1212

Hey guys i need advice im writing a research paper for college comp and im havin a hard time comin up with a topic. Got any ideas on current news? I was gonna do it on the 2nd amendment and talk about the shooting at the movie theatre in colorado but my teacher turned in down.


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## isaacdahl

Funny you mention that. I'm writing an essay write now for my college comp class. Luckily, this essay is a just a personal narrative, so I'm writing about my first deer. I watch political crap just about every day (don't know why) but I can't think of anything to great at the moment. All I here about when I turn the TV on is about the dumb democratic convention haha.

If anything comes to mind I'll be sure to mention it though!


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## Aaron Groce

HOW ABOUT COMPiring crime rates with gun laws in the usa vs great britten


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## Mathewsju

Aaron you should be a professor


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## isaacdahl

Do wanna lengthen or shorten my string to shorten my draw length? I can't remember.


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## Aaron Groce

shortin isaacdahl or you can legthen cables


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## Aaron Groce

hahah thats what i did my high school thesis paper over got an A on that thing to


----------



## muzzyman1212

What are the gun laws in great britain?


----------



## isaacdahl

Aaron Groce said:


> hahah thats what i did my high school thesis paper over got an A on that thing to


Thanks, that what I had done, but it still seems a little long. When I anchor it's perfect, but when I start to pull through, the backwall gives a bit. Must need to do add some more twists.


----------



## Aaron Groce

that means your cams aint timmed make sure they are hitting dead nuts even. if one is a little fast or slow it will give it that feal


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## N7709K

depends on the cam system.. it may be timing/sync or it can be some others things as well. you have dual limb stops on that one isaac


----------



## isaacdahl

Actually, I only got a stop on the top cam.

I'll check the timing and see how it looks. I figured it was just a mushy back wall, but it does seem a little much.


----------



## N7709K

having just one stop can cause that if your dl changed a little bit


----------



## Sighting In

That's weird. I had (well, have, trying to sell) a Sentinel and NEVER had a mushy back wall. Even when the timing was a little off, it still felt rock solid. Not sure why it would be doing that, but it doesn't hurt to double check the timing. 

Jacob, the Sentinel has a single cable stop, not limbs.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, it does seem strange as it's always had a really good backwall before. Now when I go to pull through, my hand will come off of my anchor quite a bit (second knuckle in the corner of my jawbone).

I don't have a draw board, but the timing marks look good so it can't be to far off. I'll have someone pull it back slowly for me and see if I catch anything.


----------



## isaacdahl

Well I rechecked my timing and it was off a little. Got it fixed and fine tuned my dl some more and it holds better than ever!


----------



## Mathewsju

Jake, walk me through exactly how you setup your low mount...I broke that bolt and stripped the threads out of the 1/4 20 so I tapped it out to a 5/16 24. Right now I've got a allen headed bolt, washer, riser, side bar, lock washer and lock nut and it's still fairly easy for it to slide down. So far I like it but I know yours is way more solid than mine, at least right now


----------



## Sighting In

Mathewsju said:


> Jake, walk me through exactly how you setup your low mount...I broke that bolt and stripped the threads out of the 1/4 20 so I tapped it out to a 5/16 24. Right now I've got a allen headed bolt, washer, riser, side bar, lock washer and lock nut and it's still fairly easy for it to slide down. So far I like it but I know yours is way more solid than mine, at least right now


I've got mine setup low mount. I've got a bolt, washer, mount, lock washer, one of those rubber washers you get on a doinker, riser, washer, nut. It can slide like 5 degrees, but mostly stays put. As long as I keep the bolt in tight I'm pretty good to go.


----------



## Mathewsju

I can make it work, but ik Jake has some tricks he learned that I forgot about...and it also makes a difference when you're running as much weight as I am


----------



## Aaron Groce

run a long number 8 bolt threw it ull need like a 2.5in threated all the way down and 2 washers and 2 lock washers and 2 number 8 nuts. put 1 lock washer then a regular washer on the bolt put it threw the mount and thread it into the riser. when its half way tight place the other washer and the lock washer and then put a nut the end. tighten that nut up with the bolt. with another cressent wrench (u will use 2) get the other nut and finger tighten the seconed nut onto the end of the stud. then take the 2 cressent wrenches and tighten the crap out of it. and thats how you do it.


----------



## underdog145

For you josh, I may not be a bad idea to run some female threads in there. Especially If you are mounting it to the right side of the bow. Cause when you do that, the weight is constantly loosening the bolt. Run female threads, and it will be tightening them. Or, run it off the left side and snake it thru with the arm off your dual mount to get the angle you want. 

Good to hear from ya Aaron. Thought you dropped off the face of the earth. Haha.


----------



## N7709K

Aaron came back and raised all sorts of hell lol


----------



## Mathewsju

So much for him giving it up lol. 

Do you know how hard it is to find case hardened SS 5/16 24 bolts? I've gone to machine shops and haven't found a one...looks like I may have to make my own or try Bridger's idea


----------



## Aaron Groce

as always jake. ya go to heaven for the atmosphere and hell for the company. if yall have a local ACE hardware or home depot you can get a 2.5 in with the top 3/8 unthreated and just run the mount threw that.


----------



## N7709K

Haha I'll be right there with ya bro, I raised some he'll as well


----------



## N7709K

I started work on the mental game this week.. Both with lanny's book "with winning in mind" and one of his sons books "mastering the mental side of archery". 

Lanny's book really hit home for me as some of you know, and y'all don't need to say it lol. It got me thinking back to past comps, what I ran for a mental game at them, what I thought of to keep my mind off score and off of shooting... It also really has me thinking about how far I want to take this and what opportunities that I've been offered I want to take. It's not gonna be an easy road getting to where I want and where others want me; I have lots of support for where I want to go and what I want to do, but I've also lost a good part of what has driven me thus far.

All I can say for certain is that it's gonna be a path full of blood, sweat, and tears to get to where I want to be.

Bridger, I'm gonna make that USAT team with ya boss


----------



## underdog145

Better be shooting for the senior team then my man. Haha.


----------



## Mathewsju

I'm gonna try playing with the larger draw peg on my bow this weekend...any tips/tricks I should know Bridger? Aside from retime everything lol


----------



## Aaron Groce

keep pulling lol


----------



## Mathewsju

:clap::iamwithstupid::77::jksign::dead::zip:


----------



## N7709K

lol, thats a good one aaron.. might help to take the frog outta your quiver too josh


----------



## Mathewsju

:set1_fishing:


----------



## Aaron Groce

better watch it josh a lot of big fish stores going around these days


----------



## Mathewsju

I win









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


----------



## N7709K

That ain't no story Josh, lol

Nice sailfish by the way


----------



## Aaron Groce

that aint no story thats a pic u got off google


----------



## Mathewsju

Wanna bet?


----------



## ILuvThemMangos

Just take another pic with you in it


----------



## Mathewsju

I've got an interesting question for you guys...Some of yall know I've been playing with some XXX Pros 30.5 c to c 150 up front with bohning pin nocks. I've got 8 and half were done with 4" 3d Duravanes with a hard helical and the other 4 were done with Norway 2.1" Fusion vanes with only a slight helical. The more I played with them, the more I played with them, the more it seemed like the 4 done with Norway Fusions flew better and grouped just a little bit tighter. The only thing I can think of that would cause this is vane stiffness. The duravanes are pretty darn flimsy, at least compared to the Norways so I figure that because there is a hard helical on a heavy arrow, the vanes are deforming during flight due to the large amount of drag. Obviously I haven't tested it and can't now that I stripped my arrows. What are your thoughts? How important is vane stiffness in your opinion. I'm interested to see if anyone else has had experiences like this.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Taller profile and stiffness, duravane 3ds will always start to deform over time, they stick great, they work well just not durable, might want to try Some Bohning stuff.


----------



## N7709K

the 4" vanes will have a slight effect on how the arrows react, very similar to spine (it partially changes the spine of the arrow a tiny tiny bit). the larger vanes cause more spin and will try and correct more, if they correct too much they can open groups up.


----------



## drewbie8

Mathewsju said:


> Wanna bet?


i'm a witness, i've seen it


----------



## N7709K

welded in the snow and 30mph winds along with cutting(high amperage using 6011's) in 40mph winds... so far this weekend really sucks lol

also ordered arrows, well tried to


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> welded in the snow and 30mph winds along with cutting(high amperage using 6011's) in 40mph winds... so far this weekend really sucks lol
> 
> also ordered arrows, well tried to


Sounds like a successful day! What arrows you get Jake?


----------



## N7709K

some xxx's and some more of other arrows i already got.. ordered some weight kits and stuff to play around with some of them a bit more


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> some xxx's and some more of other arrows i already got.. ordered some weight kits and stuff to play around with some of them a bit more


Nice!


----------



## Mathewsju

this place has been dead the past couple weeks...I've even started perusing the GenPop Forums to entertain myself


----------



## archerykid13

Mathewsju said:


> this place has been dead the past couple weeks...I've even started perusing the GenPop Forums to entertain myself


It has been pretty quiet lately here Josh.


----------



## N7709K

It's Been pretty quiet in gen as well... Not much going on anywhere at the time being....


----------



## isaacdahl

I've got another non-archery related question for you fellas who are in college or applied at least. 

What question should I be prepared to answer at an interview? What were some that you wished you'd been more prepared for? I've got one next weekend btw.


----------



## Mathewsju

I was helping out at my shop the other day and one of our customers came in...now I need to preface this with some background. The guy is nice, but he is older and may have lost a couple marbles already. Anyway,he wants to shoot 90m with a 40# bow, HHA .029 slider sight, GT Ultralight 600s and a .012 blade and shoot 58-60 pt ends all day long. Well we set him up with a bow and I tuned this thing as best I could to his GT 600s. He comes in multiple times a week tinkering with the rest, blade, center shot, arrows, etc. Its always the bow or something on it...Well he came and and wanted new strings. We told him he could order a draw weight specific set (more or less strands depending on bow #). Well he liked this idea and left the shop. He came in yesterday and handed his bow to us to inspect. He had untied the center serving and cut 8 strands out of the string (from the to serving to the bottom serving) and reserved the center. Now, just take a few moments and let this sink in.....

Idk what to think, its hilarious, dangerous and completely ridiculous all at once.

You never know when people will surprise you, for better of (usually) worse


----------



## N7709K

how old is the guy? i know back in the day they used to do stuff like that to get what they wanted outta it...

well i think my season got cut really short.. shoulder hurts like hell and i'm not anywhere near my bow...


----------



## Mathewsju

I hope not bud!


----------



## archerykid13

Hope you feel better Jake!!


----------



## underdog145

Hey dude, the top of my string was 3 strands less than the bottom at nationals this year and it shot great. Haha.


----------



## N7709K

got arrows ordered.. oh how i hate building them lol


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> got arrows ordered.. oh how i hate building them lol


I'll trade you. I'll build your arrows and you ship me a VE+. Seems fair to me.


----------



## Mathewsju

I'll do one better. Send me a half dozen new XXX Pros and I'll take care of your arrows


----------



## N7709K

Haha very funny bud, if I did that I wouldn't have any at the moment then... Hardest part is gonna be matching helical lol


----------



## N7709K

Arrows came in today! Means I have mocks and stuff to play with at griv's, should be a fun time


----------



## Mathewsju

Did some field judging today and I was surprised to see I was never off by more than 1.5 yards. Definitely happy considering how much time of spent working on that. I just wish I'd stop destroying my Protours...at this rate I won't have any left


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> Did some field judging today and I was surprised to see I was never off by more than 1.5 yards. Definitely happy considering how much time of spent working on that. I just wish I'd stop destroying my Protours...at this rate I won't have any left


What do you judge ground or target? thats some good judging.


----------



## Mathewsju

Thanks! As in how or what do I judge? I generally walk around and judge landmarks, trees, etc. I've found if you can judge them accurately its alot easier on a 3D target because targets are uniform in size. As far as how I judge, I count out each yard to 5, double it to 10. Recheck by counting to 10. Average those. Double to get to twenty and then add 5 yard intervals after.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> Thanks! As in how or what do I judge? I generally walk around and judge landmarks, trees, etc. I've found if you can judge them accurately its alot easier on a 3D target because targets are uniform in size. As far as how I judge, I count out each yard to 5, double it to 10. Recheck by counting to 10. Average those. Double to get to twenty and then add 5 yard intervals after.


I have tried every method possible, some days it works some it doesnt! every course is different, alot of that method will fail with terrain. you got 17 yards of ground then a valley and on the other side a Catalina goat lol..yep when i loose ground im done, Ojibawa bowhunters love there tunnels..tough to see ground, of course there are courses that it works great for me (like short local) with 2 long shots. after shooting Metro courses like wautoma uphill downhill and some others..these type methods just dont work for me.

After being told the "Only way to get good at judging" after shooting with 2 kids who podiumed at metro, seeing whos putting up big scores around the state (seems to be the same 4 or 5 guys...im totally convince all I have been told for 2 years is true...you need access or need to own the targets you shoot...judge the targets. (some day i would love to own 20), i found too many variables going off the ground atleast for me.


----------



## archerykid13

If I can judge ground then I will. But like you said Dylan, ground can fail you pretty quick. The way I practiced was I placed my one 3d target (standing buck) at different places in my yard and more or less took a mental picture. I kind of have a mental scrapbook of what different yardages look like. If I'm shooting at smaller targets (turkey) then I add 1 or 2 yards and if I'm shooting at larger targets I'll subtract a few yards. Not the best way to do it but it works for me. Would be a lot better if I had my own set of targets to work with.

Jake


----------



## archerykid13

If I can judge ground then I will. But like you said Dylan, ground can fail you pretty quick. The way I practiced was I placed my one 3d target (standing buck) at different places in my yard and more or less took a mental picture. I kind of have a mental scrapbook of what different yardages look like. If I'm shooting at smaller targets (turkey) then I add 1 or 2 yards and if I'm shooting at larger targets I'll subtract a few yards. Not the best way to do it but it works for me. Would be a lot better if I had my own set of targets to work with.

Jake


----------



## Mathewsju

Yes, you don't always have clear ground to the target. I've shot more than enough to know that and I've found experience can help alot. More than likely you have seen that target at the same or very close distance before, so you have to just think back and picture what the target looked like at that distance and go from there. However, I still find my method works well because I don't have to rely solely on the ground...I can use any number of objects: trees, plants, a flower, etc. Bottom line is there will always be references when there is not ground. For me, if I can find a good 20 yard reference within .5 yds of true 20, then I'm never off by more than 2 yards for a long shot with obstructions. That being said, another good mental technique is to visualize yourself looking at the scene from the side as a 3rd person viewer. This helps alot when you are not sure on the yardage for one reason or another so you can calmly walk yourself through a good yardage estimate. A smokin fast bow also helps...if you can handle it


----------



## underdog145

The easiest way to judge yardage in my opinion is to use a rangefinder.


----------



## tylerolsen12

underdog145 said:


> The easiest way to judge yardage in my opinion is to use a rangefinder.


haha very true but also not allowed in almost form of outdoor archery


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Josh, hope your method works well for you, not sure how many times a year you shoot foam? when you say Experience and shot enough to know? where, whos clubs and what tournaments did you shoot? I shot and traveled every weekend just about shooting the toughest courses we could find in preperation for Metro...while my judging works well enough to stay 10s or just out 8s at home (local) ,Local isnt a ASA 45 yard course? (huge difference!)

Think i shot every local course this summer walking on during the week to pratice...i could just look at targets and hit a 12....they dont move them you dont even have to judge them! shooting 30 up wasnt a biggie. they love keeping the hunters happy locally lol! I come to base my shooting not how my scores are locally but how well I shoot and judge the tough courses.

Good Luck this Weekend, sounds like you got judging down to a science, you should tear it up.


----------



## Mathewsju

This summer I didn't do much for 3d...mostly field. I shot it enough to be able to judge yardage very well out to 40 or 45 yds. Field helped me because you shoot out to 80 so when you have a 50 yd max, everything seems easier plus you are able to see what long distance shots look like (35-65 yds)

Thanks bud, I'll keep yall updated


----------



## Mathewsju

You can also use and inclinometer if you have the targets height to find the distance, which will always be within .5 yds. That's Cousins method.


----------



## N7709K

thats means trig on the fly... idk bout you, but thats not something i'm super accurate at


----------



## Mathewsju

Archers Mark is allowed, as are smart phones so it wouldn't take much. They also have preprinted tables as well...I know Menzer uses those quite a bit


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> Archers Mark is allowed, as are smart phones so it wouldn't take much. They also have preprinted tables as well...I know Menzer uses those quite a bit


Cell Phones,smart phones are illegal on the coarse in ASA and IBO also.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> Cell Phones,smart phones are illegal on the coarse in ASA and IBO also.


believe all the methods you are reffering to will be Illegal in Unknown 3d. prpbably better to shoot known class with a RF


----------



## isaacdahl

I don't have a system. I shoot so little of anything competition anymore that I haven't had much of a chance to really try anything out. I'm a guess and go type of person... then again, that's probably why I'm no good haha.


----------



## N7709K

Y'all ever have one of those days that things go from great to the worst you've ever been? It's hard seein friends go


----------



## Mathewsju

Yup, more than once. I usually go for a 2 hour run and do a few things I probably shouldn't say on this forum lol


----------



## Mathewsju

Waiting game now commences for my Pro Comp and Pro Comp XL. Gotta start thinking about setups now, and how I'm going to afford all of this...oh well


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> Waiting game now commences for my Pro Comp and Pro Comp XL. Gotta start thinking about setups now, and how I'm going to afford all of this...oh well


How did you do at that 3d shoot? up,down?


----------



## Mathewsju

9th. Nobody shot up...I would've been up 8-10 pts but I mis set my sight on the marked day and had my release go off as I was drawing on the last target. Oh well, def a fun time.


----------



## N7709K

Well I'm hangin it up for the most part come June... Motivation is gone, ain't in this for money and politics either... I'll keep coaching and making some shoots tho


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Mathewsju said:


> 9th. Nobody shot up...I would've been up 8-10 pts but I mis set my sight on the marked day and had my release go off as I was drawing on the last target. Oh well, def a fun time.


yep, them is the breaks, Similar things happened to me before, My dad shot 26 or 27 down in Metro, had some dumb mistakes, misjudge targets, thinks or hopes he finished middle of the pack lol., results get posted hes like 101 st.


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> Well I'm hangin it up for the most part come June... Motivation is gone, ain't in this for money and politics either... I'll keep coaching and making some shoots tho


Hanging it up in June? heck summer is the best time to shoot! probably bored with the Dot stuff lol! start shooting foam! way more fun! heck lost motivation, between School,Farming,Homework,GF, No place to shoot (shop closed)...my motivation is gone, it will come back in January when indoor foam starts up and a spot league i might shoot in, think my did said it best, " Be a kid, do your thing" you got you a long time to get serious about Archery.


----------



## N7709K

I like work more than shooting and need the money, so summer is out; besides I'd rather shoot indoor than anything else. Im tired of the politics of the sport. I'm there to compete, that's all, I'm not gonna be a posterboy for things I don't support


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

All the politics of the sport oh and drama...are all right here on AT, mostley why i dont come on here to often anymore, plus all the drama ect. Archery is a hobby to me that I enjoy without reading all the crap that goes with it..p.s, I like shooting more then work but i love money, but working 60 hrs a week in summer was rough.


----------



## isaacdahl

12-RING SHOOTER said:


> Hanging it up in June? heck summer is the best time to shoot! probably bored with the Dot stuff lol! start shooting foam! way more fun! heck lost motivation, between School,Farming,Homework,GF, No place to shoot (shop closed)...my motivation is gone, it will come back in January when indoor foam starts up and a spot league i might shoot in, think my did said it best, " Be a kid, do your thing" you got you a long time to get serious about Archery.


Agreed. I'm burnt out too even when it comes to hunting. I just don't have the drive like I used to. It's a bummer considering all the time and money I've spent on it. Now I'm not getting rid of my equipment or anything drastic like that... the motivation will come back in the spring, then I'll most likely be gone for the summer then college will start. Some day I'll have the time to invest like I used too. I can't wait for that day! It's suck's not being excited about hunting anymore.

Got that off my chest haha! Thanks for listen to my sob story lol.


----------



## LittleBucker

what scent block do yall use? i use sent-a-way


----------



## archerykid13

LittleBucker said:


> what scent block do yall use? i use sent-a-way


This is a thread for target shooting bud. Post that in the regular youth thread. Thanks man!


----------



## LittleBucker

whoops sorry! but sence this is a target shooting thread i only have one bow i used to have a target bow but i got out of target shooting and i want to get back into it and target bows are really expensive can i just use my hunting bow?


----------



## archerykid13

LittleBucker said:


> whoops sorry! but sence this is a target shooting thread i only have one bow i used to have a target bow but i got out of target shooting and i want to get back into it and target bows are really expensive can i just use my hunting bow?


No problem bud. What type of target are you thinking? Five spot? 3D? Vegas? FITA?


----------



## LittleBucker

well i do five spot in a club just for fun but 2 years ago i went down to the iowa pro am and id like to do that again what do you think? thanks!


----------



## archerykid13

You can definitely use your hunting bow. You don't have to have a dedicated target bow to shoot target. What bow are you shooting now?


----------



## LittleBucker

im shooting the hoyt rampage


----------



## LittleBucker

but id like to enter freestyle and use my back tention release


----------



## archerykid13

You can still shoot your Rampage. You can shoot whatever bow you want in freestyle. The different classes just specify how you can set them up.


----------



## LittleBucker

dont i have to have a certain length stab thow?


----------



## archerykid13

Not for Freestyle if I remember correctly. For a Hunting class setup your stab has to be <12" but I don't think there is a minimum for Freestyle.


----------



## LittleBucker

ok i just looked at the MN rules and u are correct thanks for the help!


----------



## archerykid13

No problem bud!


----------



## N7709K

Release doesnt bump you up to freestyle, most of the bhfs adult shooters use bt releases..

I don't really hunt anymore because there isn't a rush in killing anything; dropped one today and didn't feel a thing but recoil


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> Release doesnt bump you up to freestyle, most of the bhfs adult shooters use bt releases..
> 
> I don't really hunt anymore because there isn't a rush in killing anything; dropped one today and didn't feel a thing but recoil


It's a good thing you got some meat on the table though Jake!


----------



## isaacdahl

Damn, I can't believe the election last nightukey:. I can't believe he actually got reelected. Not sure if all of us agree about it, but I'm sure I'm not alone...


----------



## LittleBucker

isaacdahl said:


> Damn, I can't believe the election last nightukey:. I can't believe he actually got reelected. Not sure if all of us agree about it, but I'm sure I'm not alone...


i agree!


----------



## N7709K

Meats meat but I didn't feel anything... Passed two more Sunday as well....

As for the election, I was expecting that result; there wasn't a good enough candidate fielded by the red chips to get the majority vote. Romney can't be sold to everyone, neither could Ryan... I didnt care either way who won, I don't feel the impact of either for the most part. Honestly for my occupation Obama is better, if I want work I go where the work is, and I can find work all over. With less people willing to follow the work I don't have as many to compete against.

I also might not be staying state side, if that's the case if really doesn't matter.


----------



## N7709K

Looks like I'm makin 3 shoots this year... Some due to finances some do to lack of motivation. Not sure how things are gonna go


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

Turned out to be good Archery deer season, didnt get to hunt alot but from halloween weekend on I was out as much as possible, last Tuesday got in the stand by 330 and at 430 had a doe and fawn show up in the field next to me and had a decent body 5 pointer come out chasing the, grunted at him and he came in grunting and gave me a 20 yard shot, let him lay for 2 hours and went and found him, cut him up thursday and got 40# of meat heading to the sausage maker and some backstrap for deer camp. after gun season its time to start putting in some time with the target rig.


----------



## isaacdahl

Hey guys, I thought I'd bring this thread back. Haven't been posting much lately. Busy with school and work, and I don't usually shoot in the winter due to not having an indoor range near by. Anyhow, I haven't really kept up on the new products like I usually do and I'm in need of some new arrows. I still have 3 lightspeeds left out of the half dozen I started with a couple summers ago but one needs a new insert and I really never liked them so I'm gonna move on. 

I like to keep one setup for hunting and 3D (besides changing stabs) now that I'm not as serious about 3D as I used to be. Anyhow, what have you guys been using that is a small - mid diameter shaft. I don't wanna spend anymore than $140-150 a dozen (fletches and everything). Pin nocks are nice but I've given up on finding a good hunting arrow that accepts them so it's no big deal if they don't have them.


----------



## isaacdahl

For got to add, a finished weight of around 400gr give or take is what I'm looking for. Yeah, I know I'm picky! Just let me know what small-mid sized arrows you' guys are liking this year.


----------



## archerykid13

Well Injexions are good. Then you can look at the Kinetic's too.


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks Jake. I've heard good things about those; I'll check em out.


----------



## archerykid13

No prob.


----------



## isaacdahl

All the calculators tell me I need a .500 spine (on a 26.5-27 inch shaft) but I'm afraid it won't be enough once I get broadheads on it. I'll be using a 100gr point and shooting no more than 60lbs at 27in dl. What do you guys think? Should I go with a 400 and put a 125gr point out front or will a 500 with a 100gr be enough?


----------



## archerykid13

It would be the other way around Isaac. It would be 400 spine with 100 grain or 500 spine with 125 grain. At your DW and length I would think that a 400 cut at 28" with a 100 grain tip would spine fine.


----------



## isaacdahl

More weight up front decreases spine, while more weight on the back stiffens the spine. But either way, I think I will go with the 400's to be on the safe side. Plus 500's are so dang light, they're almost impractical for hunting (I like my arrow to be at least 380gr for deer but that's just me). 

I really wanna run VAPs with either Firenock inserts or the steel inserts but they're so dang expensive! The shafts aren't priced to bad but the dang inserts is what I don't wanna buy lol!


----------



## Firenock

isaacdahl said:


> I really wanna run VAPs with either Firenock inserts or the steel inserts but they're so dang expensive! The shafts aren't priced to bad but the dang inserts is what I don't wanna buy lol!


Firenock AeroOutsert are $26.00 a dozen. They are forged then machine 7075-T6 aluminum. It is not a cheap process at all. Hope that help you to make a more educated decision. They are only 30-32 grains base on size of arrow outside diameter.


----------



## isaacdahl

Firenock said:


> Firenock AeroOutsert are $26.00 a dozen. They are forged then machine 7075-T6 aluminum. It is not a cheap process at all. Hope that help you to make a more educated decision. They are only 30-32 grains base on size of arrow outside diameter.


Thanks for the information. I do understand machining costs are very expensive and I'm sure you are not overpricing your products what so ever. If I ever decide to spring for VAP's I'll definitely get the AreoOuserts. I think you have the best insert/outsert for VAPs and most other small diameter shafts by far!


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## isaacdahl

I'm just gonna go with a mid diameter shaft again. I REALLY want to try a small diameter shaft but they're just to much hassle. You're always gonna need special inserts and in the case of easton, special points/broadheads, plus they may not always fit my quiver once hunting season comes around. 

I've narrowed it down to lightspeeds or GT ultralights in 400's, both with uni-bushings and g-nocks. Then I'm gonna run PDP inserts and 20-30gr insert weights off of them and 100gr points. Then a 3" low profile vane. That should get me to my target weight of around 380-390gr with some decent FOC.


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## underdog145

Give the Pro Hunters a try maybe. You can have the regular nock, pin nocks, or the new "g" nock bushings so you can really customize how you want to set them up.


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## isaacdahl

Yep, I ended up going with ultralights, g-nocks and bushings, acculite inserts with 40gr. of insert weights, and 100gr tips. This should give me an arrow around ~ 385gr. with 14-15% foc. South shore archery's the best! Jerry's the man when it comes to doing custom setups; it's so much faster than ordering everything separate.


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## N7709K

UL's are good arrows, very tough and good specs. Mine showed up saturday


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## isaacdahl

Sweet that's what I was hoping to hear! Never shot GT before. I see you shoot for them now?


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## N7709K

yeah, bridger and i both do. For the arrows i've put the time into they are the best shafts i have ever shot, for the ones i haven't they are on par with the old setups or better


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## isaacdahl

Nice. So what do you mean the one's you've put the time into? Just the one's with the setup you shoot the most or is there a secret to building arrows I haven't figured out yet lol?


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## underdog145

They are the only arrows that I have shot that I can be sighted in for a distance and grab any one from the batch and hit behind the pin. No need for mapping where they hit to find the best of the best, because they all hit the same. And, if for some reason they dont, I just spin the nock and back to the middle they go. If you have any problems with setting them up or just want some ideas, feel free to pm me with questions.


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## isaacdahl

Thanks Bridger!


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## isaacdahl

Got half a dozen built last night and went and shot tonight. Didn't have to make to many adjustments to my bow or sights for that matter. When I did my part they didn't let me down! Grouped great!


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## corpralbarn

Im back yall!!!


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