# **ATTENTION WI. Hunters **



## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Wisconsin hunters be advised of a (good) bill in the Assembly to lower the age for the youth to hunt. Get all your friends and relatives to offer support for the bill. *Here is a chance to make a difference in the sport you love!*

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2005/data/lc_amdt/ab586.pdf
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2005/data/AB-586.pdf


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## twin2003 (Feb 21, 2006)

*Gunderson Bill*

I've got mixed emotions about this bill. 

I *DO* support the idea of an 8 year old being able to firearm hunt, but the I think it's a shame that this bill even needs to be introduced. 

Once again, this state is about to let "Big Brother" make a parents decision. i realize this is a preemptive measure to make sure a bill of opposite view is not passed. 

I still think it's the parents responsibility to teach their child proper saftey technigues. If the kid isn't safe, he doesn't go hunting. Pretty simple to me. Too bad common sense seems to be lacking in this day & age.

-T


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## fatfingers (Mar 29, 2006)

Wow! 8 yrs. is pretty young. My concern would be the shouldering of the weapon and making an accurate shot. The mentor might be taking the kid out but he isn't lining up the shot and pulling the trigger. I think that it takes some maturity to understand what is a safe and accurate shot. The mentor could help with the first part but the pulling of the trigger would be where I have real questions. I have a 10 year old and I take him hunting in Wisconsin every year. He does not hold the gun and is along for the ride only. 12 yrs. I could understand, by then they have a good understanding of safety and the need to put the animal down humanely.


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

fatfingers said:


> Wow! 8 yrs. is pretty young. My concern would be the shouldering of the weapon and making an accurate shot. The mentor might be taking the kid out but he isn't lining up the shot and pulling the trigger. I think that it takes some maturity to understand what is a safe and accurate shot. The mentor could help with the first part but the pulling of the trigger would be where I have real questions. I have a 10 year old and I take him hunting in Wisconsin every year. He does not hold the gun and is along for the ride only. 12 yrs. I could understand, by then they have a good understanding of safety and the need to put the animal down humanely.


All depends on the size of the implement, and the amount of practice this young person has had at a range. Mentoring a young hunter is more than taking him or her into the woods for a hunt. Its an entire process of instilling solid practice and discipline, both at the range and in the field, not strictly limited to the hunt itself.

I know a few young 'uns that can handle a 20 gauge shotgun without a problem. 12 ga., yeah, that's too much, but the 20? beauty.


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## romanc333 (Feb 10, 2006)

*hmm*

I think 8 is a little young but I wouldnt oppose 10yo. My lil nephew is a tall but pretty skinny kid and I know that with a properly fitted weapon he can shoot it fine but 8 yo still in my opinion is pretty young. I like the idea just kind of scarey cause I know that group hunting is legal here in good ol wi and I cant see a 8yo driving deer without the possibility of putting others in danger with getting overly excited.

Steve


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

romanc333 said:


> I think 8 is a little young but I wouldnt oppose 10yo. My lil nephew is a tall but pretty skinny kid and I know that with a properly fitted weapon he can shoot it fine but 8 yo still in my opinion is pretty young. I like the idea just kind of scarey cause I know that group hunting is legal here in good ol wi and I cant see a 8yo driving deer without the possibility of putting others in danger with getting overly excited.
> 
> Steve


THat's a great concern, but this is a responsibility issue with parents. Good training, and working with your child before going afield is a must. I agree, but the government has no business telling parents when a child can be introduced to a specific activity, right? 

Heck, on the Winter edition of Horizontal Bowhunter Magazine, on the cover, is a picture of a 6-year old GIRL from TN who bagged her first deer with a crossbow, with dad at her side. Nice 6 point buck. The story mentioned that for her birthday she asked for and received a Winchester rifle, I believe, and she became a pretty darned good shot, according to her father.

You need parents who are responsible, or a mentor who is even more responsible to make this happen. Since hunting and passing on the hunting tradition comes from parents who are more involved with their kids than an inner city single parent HH, the rub comes in assuring the child receives the right education/ training and demonstrates a mastery of these skills before hitting the woods.


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## fatfingers (Mar 29, 2006)

doctariAFC said:


> All depends on the size of the implement, and the amount of practice this young person has had at a range. Mentoring a young hunter is more than taking him or her into the woods for a hunt. Its an entire process of instilling solid practice and discipline, both at the range and in the field, not strictly limited to the hunt itself.
> 
> I know a few young 'uns that can handle a 20 gauge shotgun without a problem. 12 ga., yeah, that's too much, but the 20? beauty.


doctariafc

I don't disagree completely but I have hunted in Wisconsin for the last several years on public land, most of my family is from there, and you are right to expect the mentors to be responsible but in fact they are not always. Even still I think that it is a lot to expect from an 8 year old to place a decent enough shot under the right circumstances, and that in all likelyhood the chance for a wounded animal goes up when they are pulling the trigger. I'm not for that. I think a killing shot should be standard and that if a hunter can't safely take it the shot shouldn't be taken at all. I think 8 is too young and 12 is just right.


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

fatfingers said:


> doctariafc
> 
> I don't disagree completely but I have hunted in Wisconsin for the last several years on public land, most of my family is from there, and you are right to expect the mentors to be responsible but in fact they are not always. Even still I think that it is a lot to expect from an 8 year old to place a decent enough shot under the right circumstances, and that in all likelyhood the chance for a wounded animal goes up when they are pulling the trigger. I'm not for that. I think a killing shot should be standard and that if a hunter can't safely take it the shot shouldn't be taken at all. I think 8 is too young and 12 is just right.


You have a solid point.

Let me take this a step farther. What is the minimum age for a child to be able to hunt in WI? The reason why I ask is that, just drawing on NYS, the minimum age for a kid to hunt is 12. You can hunt small game with a rifle, shotgun or bow at age 12, under adult supervision. However, deer hunting is handled differently. Archers need to be 14 to hunt deer, under supervision, while firearms requires a kid to be 16, under supervision the first year, unless the kid was a Jr Archer for at least a year prior to hitting the woods to deer hunt with a firearm.

If a child is permitted to use a firearm to hunt at age 12, including turkey hunt, why in the world would we restrict the big game to 16? Kid can use a bow for small game at age 12. Why do they have to wait until 14 for big game?

Is this a similar scenario in WI, or are the statutes more consistent in the Cheddar State?


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## fatfingers (Mar 29, 2006)

doctariafc

In Wisconsin its 12 across the board, but 14 to hunt alone along with having a certificate. Sounds like a situation that needs fixing in your case, get rid of that confusion. I like 12, but maybe that's just what I'm used to.


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

fatfingers said:


> doctariafc
> 
> In Wisconsin its 12 across the board, but 14 to hunt alone along with having a certificate. Sounds like a situation that needs fixing in your case, get rid of that confusion. I like 12, but maybe that's just what I'm used to.


Ok. Yeah NYS is pretty FUBAR when it comes to outdoors sports. Thank the wonderful folks in NYC for this mess. Seriously. Many of these folks believe a gun will jump up and shoot you!

What I would recommend is making a visit to the NSSF site and collect some of the information they have compiled concerning youth hunters, if you haven't done so already. Their site is http://www.nssf.org.

They have some incredible information which illustrates, if not proves these young hunters, when mentored, are the safest hunters in the woods, bar none. Take a peak. If you have any issues, you may be able to contact a guy named Glen Sapir over there. If you have any challenges, mention my name, Rich Davenport, and that I recommended you speak with him. He is indebted to me since I guided him to his first musky catch ever in Oct 2005. Topwater musky to boot!  He's is their editor and in charge of much of this information as it pertains to publication. If he cannot assist you directly, he can certainly connect you with someone who can...

Good luck...


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## romanc333 (Feb 10, 2006)

*How about............*

If it were 8 years old the child must complete the hunter saftey course with a parent or mentor. And both individuals test seperately for knowledge of the saftey rules, proper techniques for handling weapons etc. I dont think age is the factor it is the maturity level and 2-4 years is alot at such a young age. Like I said before if it were to be lowered to 10 I wouldnt complain but a 6-8 year old practically is still getting basic reading and math tables down. Hunting is alot of responsibility and alot to process for a kid. I have a nephew who is 9 years old and is a straight A student down in tucson AZ and he still struggles with the proper handling of firearms even with a crickett .22 Ive seen some fathers take out their youngins and pretty much do everything except pull the trigger. That isnt hunting IMO. All kids are individuals and have limitations and more often then not pushing them at such a young age might hurt em.

Steve


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

romanc333 said:


> If it were 8 years old the child must complete the hunter saftey course with a parent or mentor. And both individuals test seperately for knowledge of the saftey rules, proper techniques for handling weapons etc. I dont think age is the factor it is the maturity level and 2-4 years is alot at such a young age. Like I said before if it were to be lowered to 10 I wouldnt complain but a 6-8 year old practically is still getting basic reading and math tables down. Hunting is alot of responsibility and alot to process for a kid. I have a nephew who is 9 years old and is a straight A student down in tucson AZ and he still struggles with the proper handling of firearms even with a crickett .22 Ive seen some fathers take out their youngins and pretty much do everything except pull the trigger. That isnt hunting IMO. All kids are individuals and have limitations and more often then not pushing them at such a young age might hurt em.
> 
> Steve


I would certainly not be opposed to this, however, it may be more critical that the parent or mentor is certified as a qualified person, through years in the field, rather than demand a course be taken by the kid. The student only learns to the level of the teacher, and if the parent or mentor is sloppy in their habits, the child will be sloppy as well...

Focus on the educator, and the quality of education will certainly improve.


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## Sirs (Apr 3, 2006)

*8?*

I started hunting by myself when I was 6 but I had hunted with my dad since I could remember he taught me how to hunt and use guns from the start. I was told from the start.This is not a toy to play with he showed me what guns did so I could see it.He made sure I was safe with what I hunted with and when I hunted I was limited to a certain area only.He taught me young to respect any weapon and to respect wildlife one thing you don't have to have now.To hunt now you need only a piece of paper to say you was shown what it takes to be safe. Passing a hunter education course doesn't make you a safe hunter. How your taught is how safe you are and that isn't done in a few days. It took alot to convince my dad I was ready and I proved I was safe.I do the hunter safety courses where ever I hunt and don't mind a bit it's fun to see kids who want to hunt.I started my boy at 10 hunting Deer, TN wouldn't let him hunt solo for big game till he was 13 but I would've trusted him to at 10. I raised him the same way I was to be safe with weapons and to respect what you hunt. I think if more parents took more time with their kids there would be no need for all this about kids hunting.If the parent doesn't hunt the kid won't either till they are exposed to it. It takes time to learn to be safe without thinking about it has to be a habit.


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## Bowdoc (Jan 22, 2003)

Sorry people but talked to an assemblyman on friday and that bill died on Wednesday of last week. Poor timing I quess, basically due to the new car seat laww that states all children under the age of 8 wust be in a car seat (rediculous).


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

Bowdoc said:


> Sorry people but talked to an assemblyman on friday and that bill died on Wednesday of last week. Poor timing I quess, basically due to the new car seat laww that states all children under the age of 8 wust be in a car seat (rediculous).


WHAT????????

Who's the pansy that pushed that nonsense through, and why the heck did WI pass such a ridiculous law in the first place? Are you kidding me?????

Nothing like saddling parents with more ridiculous costs, making it harder to afford to be a parent, amd forcing parents to spend more time working, away from the kids they are supposed to raise. This makes me SICK!


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## BIGNICK (Feb 14, 2006)

*Thanks*

I Love It, Thanks For Passing That On! Hunting Is Hunting And If We Dont Take Advantage Of Ever Little Thing Other Anti Groups Will!
Thanks


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## fatfingers (Mar 29, 2006)

Bowdoc said:


> Sorry people but talked to an assemblyman on friday and that bill died on Wednesday of last week. Poor timing I quess, basically due to the new car seat laww that states all children under the age of 8 wust be in a car seat (rediculous).


I think a better criteria for car seats is weight, and not age. My daughter though, at 8, is still small (44 pounds), although I don't keep her in a car seat I think that technically she is supposed to be. I still think that 8 is too young to be pulling the trigger on a deer rifle. It's enough for kids at this age to just go along.


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## Scottie (Oct 29, 2004)

Agree with most here. This must fall on the responsibility of the parents.
I know there are some 8 years out there more responsible than some adults; although sad and true, but IMO 8 is just way too young.

I remember walking along with my Grandpa at the tender of 6 while he was squirrel hunting. It was found memories and he even let me shoot quite a few. He would stop, point out the squirrel, help me shoulder the gun, take the safety off, man I miss those times. However, I cannot imagine walking along with him carrying my own gun and having the responsibility to "Fire at Will" so to speak. I'm afraid I must go towards the liberal side here. 12 is a comfortable age limit for firearm hunting.

Now, having two little girls closing in on ages 6 and 3, this seat belt law is the most ridiculous, nonsense, flaming liberal law ............ oops, almost went off on a tangent ....... (maybe we should have them wear safety glasses, ear plugs, hard helmets and steel tip shoes as well)


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## Bowdoc (Jan 22, 2003)

Ladies and gentlemen, it was most important to see this pass as we have a law that states children under the age of 11 with out a hunters safety certificate cannot even handle a firearm. Wich means I cannot take my grandson out behind my dads barn and let him shoot the .22 or even a BB gun unless he is 11 with a certificate. How are we suppose to teach our youth to handle a firearm if it is illegal to do so? We have a warden in this area that will write tickets for this offense. I believe that 8 maybe to young to hunt but it is not to young to start the training process (LEGALLY) just like my dad did.


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## shooter6687 (Mar 28, 2006)

*i agree*

I agree with bowdoc....my son has been ice fishing,and hunting with me since he was in diapers( no lie ) and he went through hunters safety with flying colors, but i think 8 is to young to hunt but not to young to shoot and to learn the responsability that goes hand in hand with hunting.Like i said he has been shooting guns since he could shoulder a bb gun.I live in eagle river wisconsin and i have been hunting since i was 12 but ive been shooting since i was 6 and i am very fortunate to have had a father,uncle, and grandpa who love to hunt.Wisconsin has some goofy laws i guess i need to read up on them...


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## Jacko (Feb 1, 2003)

As parents we all should know our childs limitations! My 9 year old would be no problem. He hunts and shoots with me now. He can shoot a bow better than most! Accomplished shot with his .243 too! Spends all kinds of ime with me in the woods. We have double treestands. I understand and respect peoples views on the 8 year old age limit. I'm for it. It's not about me getting another tag to get a deer. I get plenty! It's about my son wanting to go. He was pulling for this law so he could turkey hunt this year, with his bow! Not all youngsters are ready for hunting or shooting, lots of adults too! It's sad that our fine state that we pay taxes and money on licenses won't let a parent make the decision if the child hunts or not. My kids were taught from the very beginning like most of us, SAFETY! I would just like to see Wisconsin pass a younger age, even 10. We've even looked at going out of state! But I guess the politicians all know what's best!!!:wink:


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## aceoky (Mar 17, 2006)

FWIW, our youngest son started deer hunting at age 8!(there is NO min age in KY with adult supervision .....love that! ) 

At age 6, he was taught to shoot a ML with a lower powder charge,(and roundballs to keep recoil easy to handle) we worked that up, as he got better and more used to it, he could shoot the "bull out" @ 50 yards, then we moved him to 75 then to 100, as he got "good enough", at age 11 he started using a .243 with handloaded Nosler Partitions with "reduced loads"(somewhat reduced) and can easily hit a paper plate every shot @ 150 yards now!

(Funny story about him hope no one minds), last year with his mother with him, during one of the ML seasons he wasn't exactly "ready" when a nice 8 pt buck came within 5 ft of him!! He was shaking so hard he couldn't keep the sights on the buck that close, his first case of "buck fever".......he quickly found out how fast things can happen, it's a story I'd love for all hunters to hear, it's great hearing him tell it!

I don't really agree with age restricitons, I've seen no real evidence they "work" or help anything.....maybe they do, and I've missed that?


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## aceoky (Mar 17, 2006)

I meant to say he was started with a .22 then the ml, sorry just realized that mistake.....


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

Indiana doesn't have any age limitations of when a kid can start hunting.

They do have to have a Hunter Safety Certificate. I've seen 9 year olds pass it.

Is the Wisconsin "Safety Cerificate" for hunting or shooting?

I cant believe that they can stop a parent from taking a kid shooting.

If so, that definetely needs changing.


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## thesource (May 19, 2005)

NY is tougher still.

12 to small game hunt (with huner's safety class)
14 to bowhunt (with hunter's safety and bowhunter's safety)
16 to gun hunt for deer.


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

thesource said:


> NY is tougher still.
> 
> 12 to small game hunt (with huner's safety class)
> 14 to bowhunt (with hunter's safety and bowhunter's safety)
> 16 to gun hunt for deer.


That is number 3....


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## 1horn (Jan 12, 2005)

*wisconsin liberal mentality*

You can't even shoot at tin cans til the age of twelve in Wisconsin. You can play soccer, baseball, football and basketball all of which are far more dangerous than hunting much less shooting cans. These other sports you can enjoy whenever your parents think it's okay for you to participate. How ridiculous. We try to pass a MENTORING BILL, not a hunting bill and it gets shot down. Most of Madison needs to be thrown in the drink. They're do gooder, anti, tree hugging morons.


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## wmgn0evf (Jul 10, 2006)

My dad, who will be 81 tomorrow, started taking me quail hunting with him when I was six or seven. He had an old Winchester single-shot .22, that he bought when he was 9 yrs. old. He let me carry it unloaded while we were hunting. Every so often we would stop and shoot a few hedge apples to help keep my interest and as an incentive to learn how to safely handle a firearm. My dad and his other hunting partner kept an eye on my handling, carrying, etc. of that unloaded rifle. If I made a mistake, I was corrected lovingly, but, firmly on the spot. When he felt that I had learned enough to responsibly carry and handle a loaded gun, he bought me an old single-shot .410 shotgun. As I progressed in age and experience the guns changed as well, partly due to the change in fit. He also taught me about archery starting about 10 yrs., fishing, astronomy, photography, racing pigeons, and a lot about life in general.

I have 5 children, 3 boys, then 2 girls, ages 28-18. My boys started hunting with me around 6-7 using basically the same process my dad used, and they continue to hunt various game today. My hunting buddy, besides my dad, taught his boys to hunt in the same fashion, and we have had many memorable hunts together (he has 4 boys). Kept us dads busy watching out for the safety issues with so many boys, ha! My hunting buddy and I continue to hunt with our boys, although it has become more of a problem the last few years with him having part of a leg amputated and me having some other health issues. The girls never really expressed much interest in hunting, but do enjoy target shooting. All but the youngest girl have taken the Young Hunter Safety Program here in KS. My wife wants to take the training along with my youngest if they can ever get a compatible schedule together.

Friends, it's not so much about the age, as every one of my sons and my buddy's son were different. It's being able to recognize their unique abilities and maturity levels. It's about you spending quality time with them, as much as you can, and imparting your wisdom, values, morals, ethics, and knowledge to them, not what they learn from someone who may or may not know what the hell they are talking about (assuming of course that you do, ha). Learning to read and the ability to think for themselves are probably the most important things that you can teach them. If they can read and understand what they are reading, they can learn about anything else they want to, whatever the subject. If you only let the government indoctrination system (public schools) teach them, they will miss out on a lot. Look at the test results that are out there. Public education for the most part is abysmal.

IMHO, too many parents have children, but do not want to accept the responsibility of raising them to be responsible, well-educated citizens. That's why our system is on a slippery slope in so many areas. It's up to you.

I apologize for the long read and being up on the soapbox, but the only way to bring about change is to speak up and share thoughts, ideas, and experience.


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