# Wood Vs Carbon Arrows?



## eralston (Nov 7, 2009)

Okay I have been shooting for quite some time using all wood arrows and Not noticing much of a improvement. I have spent the last six months really just working on form close range every night.

So I went out to the range And I brought several sets of wood Arrows all spinned for my bows and close in weight. I also brought a set of Carbon express 250's that came with my Black widow recurve.

The long and short was with the recurve and the long bow I was able to get a tight group in the dead center consistently about 3.5 inches max with the carbon arrows. Yet with the wood arrows I could not get anything consistent. At best a 12'' group.

I have been making shafts for ages and thought I might be making a fundamental error in it so I picked up a dozen completed arrows from three rivers, whispering winds, and from arrowwoods.com. With the same result.

The only thing I can think of is the Carbon has a larger spine range and I am just missing it with the wood? But I would think that would just move them left or right consistently.

Does anyone have a Idea what I might be doing to have such drastic difference between wood and Carbon shafts? Any help would be appreciated as i compete in group that we have to use wood shafts.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

eralston said:


> Okay I have been shooting for quite some time using all wood arrows and Not noticing much of a improvement. I have spent the last six months really just working on form close range every night.
> 
> So I went out to the range And I brought several sets of wood Arrows all spinned for my bows and close in weight. I also brought a set of Carbon express 250's that came with my Black widow recurve.
> 
> ...


I know what you're observing to be true. I have to shoot my wood arrows and segregate them and color them as to where they hit bareshaft. Each bow is somewhat different too. Now I live with a lot of this and destroy arrows like popcorn, but I love to shoot at stuff and well... .

I'm just a dunce that buys arrows by the 100's and go through them easily because I have no self control. I'll shoot at literally anything when roving... :teeth: I've never measured this scientifically, but if forced to guess I bet you get a dozen arrows out of a 100 that are truly what they're sposed to be. Problem for me is I don't care.... I actually probably toss a dozen too because I'm too lazy to fuss with it.

Aloha... :beer:


----------



## Floatsum (Jan 14, 2010)

Worth checking?
Shaft diameter is the first thing I'd scrutinize. Carbon probably smaller dia. and effectively giving more center shot?

FOC between the two maybe?

Nock to string tightness of each?

Fletch orientation to nock groove?

I HATE carbons..... too perfect! 

Just a couple ideas is all.


----------



## Pikkuhannu (Apr 3, 2009)

I use wood arrows. Carbon is splinter, if you shoot something hard, wood is impossible to shatter...


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Pikkuhannu said:


> I use wood arrows. Carbon is splinter, if you shoot something hard, wood is impossible to shatter...


I need to have you come along with me someday.... 

Aloha... :beer:


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Floatsum said:


> Worth checking?
> Shaft diameter is the first thing I'd scrutinize. Carbon probably smaller dia. and effectively giving more center shot?
> 
> FOC between the two maybe?
> ...


Geeeze.... yer making this sound like work... fer cryin out loud.... :teeth:

Aloha... :beer:


----------



## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

Are your woodies straight?


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

you can get woods to shoot really well but they take a lot of time and effort to make them well and they will never really shoot as well as Carbons.










This is a typical group at walkback Field practice 15 to 70 yards.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm Not Ted said:


> Are your woodies straight?


I know this was an honest question so don't take this as anything but an observation on my part.

Wood arrows, cane arrows, arrows made from branches all seem to be able to harvest game. Harvesting medals might take a litte more today... although if you look at the target butt above, you can see wood is still a capabable shaft and each one has "personality"... unlike the cold heart of carbon...

By the way... are carbon arrows going to be taxed for global warming or climate change? Only seems fair.... :teeth:

Back to straightness... in MY OPINION as long as the front of the arrow and the back of the arrow are in line, the area in between makes for a fun arrow that probably might represent it's version of a "tahitian".

Much Aloha... :beer:


----------



## rraming (Aug 5, 2006)

With my limited experience here is what I know - I have better groups with carbon
Sticking with wood, my best bet is to buy 100 shafts at a time and spine them and weight them myself. I did this over the winter again and have 3 sets of 20-22 aroows each (like 65 of them) I made two more matched dozens and the rest are flu-flu's and squirrel shooters (which like Rattus, I virtually give away to the woods). The smaller tollerences for spine and weight you get to the better - at least that is what I believe.
I would never buy 12 raw shafts and make a set from them if I wanted a "good" set. I will find shafts out of spine group once in a while and once I found one 25lbs light (I posted about this silly business before, last year).
I don't think you can beat the carbon shaft of consistency and durability (but we already know that - don't we?)

Wood is good!


----------



## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

rattus58 said:


> By the way... are carbon arrows going to be taxed for global warming or climate change? Only seems fair.... :teeth:
> Much Aloha... :beer:


I don't know. We recently got the repeal of the excise tax on wooden arrows, so is it fair to now tax those carbons?:teeth:


----------



## Floatsum (Jan 14, 2010)

Pikkuhannu said:


> I use wood arrows. Carbon is splinter, if you shoot something hard, wood is impossible to shatter...


Duh? ukey:

I'm with Rat,,, Trust me, I have no problem finding a way. 

Rats - "_[Geeeze.... yer making this sound like work... fer cryin out loud.... 
/I]"
Taint work if you enjoy it. 

Steve - you've a problem with Tune there you know.  J/K,,, just kidding. :darkbeer:
Bet you didn't buy them at Wally World or make them up in an afternoon._


----------



## eralston (Nov 7, 2009)

*Bare Shafting tuning*

I have done all of my Bare shaft tuning at five yards. I have heard i need to move back and try at 15 yards. I also had not considered the diameter difference in shafts, I may have the nock point and brace height great for the carbon and not for the Wood shafts. 

I have also bought just a dozen shafts at a time and made arrows and I should have bought a larger amount to get all the arrows really close. I will try again as i know you should be able to get wood arrows to fly more consistent.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

eralston said:


> I have also bought just a dozen shafts at a time and made arrows and I should have bought a larger amount to get all the arrows really close. I will try again as i know you should be able to get wood arrows to fly more consistent.


If you find a supplier that you trust you dont need to buy them by the 100, the arrows I make are within 2 grains and 2# spine and very straight, I normally by 2 doz at a time.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

steve morley said:


> If you find a supplier that you trust you dont need to buy them by the 100, the arrows I make are within 2 grains and 2# spine and very straight, I normally by 2 doz at a time.


Within 2 grains and 2#? I don't know about my spine, except to say I don't believe those I've bought from are doing it in a manner that is meaningful for me. As for weight... mine are NEVER within 2 grains... not 5 grains either... try 100 grains or more from Rose City, and I forget where I got my latest ash from, but these were better in spine but still way off in weight. 

I should care I suppose, but I'm happy with what I got/get. What do you pay for your arrows and where, if you'd care to divulge, did you/do you get them from?

Much Aloha... :beer:


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I've seen wood arrows shoot with the best carbons. But not by me of course

Wood arows just require more work, or rather, attention. Couple things that have given me, personally, trouble:

-Lower FOC
-When bareshafting, you have to do each shaft... they're not all the same.
-Even tapered shafts don't recover as quickly as carbons. 
-Grain swirls (more a problem with birch and some hardwood dowels than cedar and spruce) cause different parts of the shaft to react differently than the rest. 

All that in conjunction with the obvious inconsistencies between arrows. In the end, carbons are just a short cut. A really economical, effective short cut...


----------



## rraming (Aug 5, 2006)

steve morley said:


> If you find a supplier that you trust you dont need to buy them by the 100, the arrows I make are within 2 grains and 2# spine and very straight, I normally by 2 doz at a time.


Tell us where you buy your shafts, I want to see a group of 100 for myself:teeth: Also I don't believe everything I read


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

rattus58 said:


> Within 2 grains and 2#? I don't know about my spine, except to say I don't believe those I've bought from are doing it in a manner that is meaningful for me. As for weight... mine are NEVER within 2 grains... not 5 grains either... try 100 grains or more from Rose City, and I forget where I got my latest ash from, but these were better in spine but still way off in weight.
> 
> I should care I suppose, but I'm happy with what I got/get. What do you pay for your arrows and where, if you'd care to divulge, did you/do you get them from?
> 
> Much Aloha... :beer:


If you're hunting under 30 yards, I don't see why there is a real reason to care. They're cheap, and shoot more than well enough to kill big game.


----------



## rraming (Aug 5, 2006)

kegan said:


> I've seen wood arrows shoot with the best carbons. But not by me of course
> 
> Wood arows just require more work, or rather, attention. Couple things that have given me, personally, trouble:
> 
> ...


Funny you mention bareshafting each shaft - I actually spent the time once and did that, made no difference to me (granted just me maybe) for the time it took, it was not worth the hassle. I thought it would change everything - maybe if I was a machine


----------



## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

kegan said:


> If you're hunting under 30 yards, I don't see why there is a real reason to care. They're cheap, and shoot more than well enough to kill big game.


You honestly can't tell 100 grains of difference in arrow weight at 30 yards?


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

rraming said:


> Funny you mention bareshafting each shaft - I actually spent the time once and did that, made no difference to me (granted just me maybe) for the time it took, it was not worth the hassle. I thought it would change everything - maybe if I was a machine


Maybe that's just me. I use birch dowels for wooden arrows, and even spining them I couldn't be 100% sure, so I'd have to go and test them before I fletched and sealed them up. Then I bought some aluminums and quickly went to carbons from there:lol:.

I still like playing with wood arrows, but I don't see bothering with them as much. I'm still busy playing with selfbow design.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

J. Wesbrock said:


> You honestly can't tell 100 grains of difference in arrow weight at 30 yards?


Yeah... sometimes even my rubber blunts make it through my backstop... :teeth:

This all works out in the bareshaft shooting, which I do with each arrow I make just to see where they group. Arrows that group get bundled together so to answer your question, within a bundle you probably won't notice much but you certainly will between bundles.

Much Aloha... :beer:


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

J. Wesbrock said:


> You honestly can't tell 100 grains of difference in arrow weight at 30 yards?


Whoops, I mis-typed. I meant 20 yards. My last batched varied 110 gr. and even though I could hit pretty well at 15-20, just ten yards more than that and I would be lucky to keep them on the bale:zip:.


----------



## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

rattus58 said:


> I know this was an honest question so don't take this as anything but an observation on my part.
> 
> Wood arrows, cane arrows, arrows made from branches all seem to be able to harvest game. Harvesting medals might take a litte more today... although if you look at the target butt above, you can see wood is still a capabable shaft and each one has "personality"... unlike the cold heart of carbon...
> 
> ...



It was, and I agree with what you've said for the most part. I've shot some bendy arrows without problems. However, some of the arrows that I've found in the snow that were pretty warped, didn't fly very well. Up and down, all around. It wasn't the fletching either. I was just putting a possible possibility on the table.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm Not Ted said:


> It was, and I agree with what you've said for the most part. I've shot some bendy arrows without problems. However, some of the arrows that I've found in the snow that were pretty warped, didn't fly very well. Up and down, all around. It wasn't the fletching either. I was just putting a possible possibility on the table.


Sounds like them arrows just didn't have their heads on straight to me...  If you just pulled me out of the snow I'd probably not be too straight either... :teeth:

Aloha... :beer:


----------



## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

Naw.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

oops.... changed it on ya a bit.... via the editing afterthoughts we are permitted...


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

rraming said:


> Tell us where you buy your shafts, I want to see a group of 100 for myself:teeth: Also I don't believe everything I read


My supplier is based in Europe 'Falco' and he is my trade supplier, he has over a 10000 shafts in stock, because I'm such high level tourney shooter he takes extra care to send me only the best shafts, I had a similar friendship\relationship with Cecil and Paula at Rogue River before they sold it to Wapiti Archery but they didn't send me what I wanted so went elsewhere.

If you shoot woodies seriously and you find a good supplier, make him your best friend.


----------



## rraming (Aug 5, 2006)

steve morley said:


> My supplier is based in Europe 'Falco' and he is my trade supplier, he has over a 10000 shafts in stock, because I'm such high level tourney shooter he takes extra care to send me only the best shafts, I had a similar friendship\relationship with Cecil and Paula at Rogue River before they sold it to Wapiti Archery but they didn't send me what I wanted so went elsewhere.
> 
> If you shoot woodies seriously and you find a good supplier, make him your best friend.


Figured it had to be something with a "friend" - most dealers would loose their shirts sorting down to those small groups for a few guys (and I wouldn't be one of those guys) - I agree the smaller the spine and weight the better. Unless your the "cream of the crop" you will have to do it yourself!


----------



## Pikkuhannu (Apr 3, 2009)

steve morley said:


> My supplier is based in Europe 'Falco' and he is my trade supplier, he has over a 10000 shafts in stock, because I'm such high level tourney shooter he takes extra care to send me only the best shafts, I had a similar friendship\relationship with Cecil and Paula at Rogue River before they sold it to Wapiti Archery but they didn't send me what I wanted so went elsewhere.
> 
> If you shoot woodies seriously and you find a good supplier, make him your best friend.


Falco make good bows too. 

I buy my wood arrows from "Mukkanuoli". They also make good bows.

I shoot for fun and hunt, so i don´t care if arrows are not just straight. When i go to hunt, i test and found best ones. :shade:


----------



## eralston (Nov 7, 2009)

*Found the issue.*

Okay the issue was two fold as I found when I got to shoot this weekend. One the nock set was set for the carbon arrows and not the 11/32 wood shafts. The other was spine. I have a new Black Widow recurve and it is nice but the Manual states that would arrows are to week to shoot through there bows and you have to follow this equation to get the correct spine range. The equation shows you need to use only 80# to 85# out of a 55# re-curve at my draw length and I believed it and was shooting those. After the issues I had I brought dozens of my arrows for different bows and found the 60# to 65# shot great I was getting almost the same group as with the carbon. With a occasional odd ball but that may have been me as much as the Arrow. Thanks for all the help It really helped me narrow done the possibilities. I had originally thought it must have been just me doing something and i am glad to find out it was just paying more attention to what the manual said than what I was seeing.


----------



## MikeShaw (Jun 17, 2016)

*Carbon vs. Wood - the bottom line*



steve morley said:


> you can get woods to shoot really well but they take a lot of time and effort to make them well and they will never really shoot as well as Carbons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for being blunt (no pun intended). 
That's good enough for me. I'll stick with carbon. 
I like the look and feel of wood, I'll admit that, though.

Rgds,
Mike Shaw
www.mikeshawtoday.com


----------

