# 1000 arrows per day?



## S.B. (Sep 26, 2012)

Mr. Lee in his book Total Archery claims that Korean archers regularly shoot 1000 arrows per day.
Assuming the most favorable conditions - 12 arrows per end, 20 seconds to shoot an arrow, 18 meters, 2 minutes to retrieve arrows, it will take 6 minutes to shoot one 12 arrows, one hour to shoot 120 arrows, 8 hours to shoot 960 arrows. No lunch, no breaks, no study. 
If we assume real life conditions, 6 arrows per end, 70 meters, reasonable breaks, it will probably take 16 hours to shoot 1000 arrows. 
Make your own judgement on the rest of his claims.
S.B.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Math is cool.


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## gif (Jul 14, 2012)

http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/KoreanTechnique/Ktech.htm


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

Most are done in the blank bale format, where the target is just a little ways past the end stabilizer. I think the current fastest time for the US team's 1000 arrow challenge is around 5 hours for the men.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Blank baling a few dozen at close distance will eat up half that # in a few hours. 

I don't think its unrealistic to imagine a 12-14 hour day, including cardio and muscle training.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

S.B. said:


> Mr. Lee in his book Total Archery claims that Korean archers regularly shoot 1000 arrows per day.
> Assuming the most favorable conditions - 12 arrows per end, 20 seconds to shoot an arrow, 18 meters, 2 minutes to retrieve arrows, it will take 6 minutes to shoot one 12 arrows, one hour to shoot 120 arrows, 8 hours to shoot 960 arrows. No lunch, no breaks, no study.
> If we assume real life conditions, 6 arrows per end, 70 meters, reasonable breaks, it will probably take 16 hours to shoot 1000 arrows.
> Make your own judgement on the rest of his claims.
> S.B.


End?? he talking about korean archers....who are proffesionals....

btw. who forcing you to shoot 70m?


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

S.B. said:


> Mr. Lee in his book Total Archery claims that Korean archers regularly shoot 1000 arrows per day.
> Assuming the most favorable conditions - 12 arrows per end, 20 seconds to shoot an arrow, 18 meters, 2 minutes to retrieve arrows, it will take 6 minutes to shoot one 12 arrows, one hour to shoot 120 arrows, 8 hours to shoot 960 arrows. No lunch, no breaks, no study.
> If we assume real life conditions, 6 arrows per end, 70 meters, reasonable breaks, it will probably take 16 hours to shoot 1000 arrows.
> Make your own judgement on the rest of his claims.
> S.B.


Did you just not so subtly call him a liar because of your limited understanding? Nice.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

blank bale about 5 yards away, shooting 12-24 arrows. 


They also shoot for 4-6 hours per day. I can shoot 250 good shots in 2 hours at 25 yards ( 12 arrows at a time). Back when i was shooting 500 arrows a day at 18 meters, it would take me about 3 hours or so. 
And Mr Lee is one of the top Korean coaches period. He doesnt make claims. Most of the world's top archers train with him at his archery school at some point in time. He has weekly camps. I know recently several from Australia and Europe were there with him. Tayler Worth, Matt Zumbo etc etc. And Maja Jager from Denmark who just won Gold at the World Champs. I'd say he knows what he is doing. 

http://www.archeryschool.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=61e

here is a another example of Korean training and shooting 1000 arrows a day while learning the form. 

http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2012/07/27/missing-the-olympics-by-centimeters/

and on page 2

http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/Shull/7-1rt300.pdf

this whole thread shows your lack of understanding archery training. Impressive thread for your 29th post. I wonder how many arrows you have ever shot in a day. My most was 800 and it took me 6 hours at 18 meters. 


Chris


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

chrstphr said:


> And Mr Lee is one of the top Korean coaches period. He doesnt make claims.


Everybody makes claims. Even "top Korean coaches".

It seems clear that some Korean archers do shoot 1000 arrows in a day. The question of how common that is, whether it is typical, and if so, under what circumstances, is an entirely legitimate one. Coach Lee can still be a "top Korean coach" and still be generalizing rather than stating a universal truth about Korean archers when it comes to shooting 1000 arrows per day.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Warbow said:


> Everybody makes claims. Even "top Korean coaches".
> 
> It seems clear that some Korean archers do shoot 1000 arrows in a day. The question of how common that is, whether it is typical, and if so, under what circumstances, is an entirely legitimate one. Coach Lee can still be a "top Korean coach" and still be generalizing rather than stating a universal truth about Korean archers when it comes to shooting 1000 arrows per day.



and i listed 2 examples of first hand knowledge. It is not a claim. It is a routine part of their system. period.


Chris


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

chrstphr said:


> and i listed 2 examples of first hand knowledge. It is not a claim. It is a routine part of their system. period.
> 
> 
> Chris


Ahem. You and I use the word "claim" differently. A claim can be a **true** thing. I'm using the word in the academic/technical/legal or whatnot sense, as in "a claim of fact". It is a claim of fact. And, by your understanding and examples, a true one.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

I take the word "claim" to be an unsubstantiated fact.


In the Korean archery school system, the high school kids do shoot that many arrows a day. The middle school kids are close to that too. 


heres another one for you. In 2001, a month before the championships, at a training camp, 4 top men archers on the Korean national team walked out of a training camp. They were told to carry a wooden boat up a mountain to train for strength and endurance. The archers thought it was unsafe and they walked out. They were afraid of a wrist injury. 

All of them were given bans from 1 to 5 years. 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/south-korean-archers-banned-for-pulling-out-of-training-1.262663

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/26/sports/26ARCH.html

The Koreans do not play around with their training and athletes. 

and OP's original post was putting Coach Lee's entire training method as suspect with his comment " make your own judgement on the rest of his claims". OP is completely ignorant of the Korean training methods and trying to disparage them as fantasy which is completely not the case. 

the beauty of facebook is you can actually talk with National coaches from Korea and Italy etc, and get correct world class information on the coaching systems and form and what is common in the training. 

Chris


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## Drowsy (May 9, 2013)

I don't have the book in front of me, but I do seem to remember that the heading of the subject was called "The 1000 Arrow Challenge", as in, this is something that US archers do once in a while as a test of endurance?


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

It took about seven hours for me to shoot 1000 arrows. 24-36 arrows at time, mostly blank bale, but some at 30m and 70m. Probably couldn't do it any more.

Generally the message from Korea seems to be these days that "they don't shoot quite as much than they used to". Generally they shoot more volume at younger ages and less in adult teams.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

yes. The high school kids shoot the most, middle school kids next. They shoot the volume when they are ingraining the form. The university kids shoot alot, and the pros shoot even less. Once the kids have the form ingrained and are on the top teams, they concentrate on the mental aspect and the focus. Shooting in noise, distractions, etc. 


Chris


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

The 2009 publication of "Total Archery -- Inside the Archer" describes the 1000 arrow challenge on page 35. The stated record at that time was "a few minutes more than 6 hours". The record setter shot one arrow and and pulled it every 21 seconds -- obviously close blank bale. Also stated as more of a psychological test than a physical one. But obviously physical too. Generally it lasts "easily 8 hours."

FWIW.

Arne


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Coach lee and Coach Kim ( and most top National coaches) all advocate being able to shoot a volume of arrows. And the volume is not low. Even posted on AT are photos of Michele Frangili shooting in practice by Vitorrio. He shoots 18 arrows per end at 30, 50 each time, he would shoot more, but he cant, it fills the center ring and damages arrows. He shoots volumes. Brady has said when he trains he shoots two fitas a day, one in the morning an done in the evening. Bare bale training too. His day is an 8 hour day. 

it takes 3000 - 10,000 arrows to reinforce and integrate a new part of the form or shot cycle. To own it takes more. 

It reinforces form, strength and moves you past the shot part of it and moves you into letting your body do what is natural. It takes volume of volume of shots to get it so its natural for the body. 

That free's up the mind to focus on the shot and wind and everything else. I dont shoot the HTS system, but the book is not fantasy. Coach Lee comes form the Korean training system. 


Chris


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

*it takes 3000 - 10,000 arrows to reinforce and integrate a new part of the form or shot cycle. To own it takes more. *

Chris, we forget that they get paid big bucks to do this 'full-time' job and like any job after awhile of repetition it becomes so ingrained that it becomes boring. I think where these guys really shine is knowing they are bored and pushing forward each day.

I'm not sure if it takes that long to get something ingrained. Do you think it could be more of doing it so often that it becomes unnaturally natural so if they are tired or sick they can 'just do it'...like a pro entertainer for example...know all the notes and routine by heart so that they can not disappoint.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

bradd7 said:


> *it takes 3000 - 10,000 arrows to reinforce and integrate a new part of the form or shot cycle. To own it takes more. *
> 
> Chris, we forget that they get paid big bucks to do this 'full-time' job and like any job after awhile of repetition it becomes so ingrained that it becomes boring. I think where these guys really shine is knowing they are bored and pushing forward each day.
> 
> I'm not sure if it takes that long to get something ingrained. Do you think it could be more of doing it so often that it becomes unnaturally natural so if they are tired or sick they can 'just do it'...like a pro entertainer for example...know all the notes and routine by heart so that they can not disappoint.


75% of the koreans in training are not paid for training. They are school kids who also have to do school and homework. Same goes for aspiring ice skaters, aspiring olympic gymnasts and a bunch of other sports. 95% of the top archers in Europe are not paid for that. If you think that only the paid professionals are training this way, you are wrong. and the ones that dont are at the bottom of the scoring lists. 

I find that most people use that as an excuse. Most olympic athletes work a job, have a family, and train as a hobby unsponsored. But they train the same as the paid pros. That is how they are competitive. Even Reo Wilde worked at UPS for years while competing and he also has a family with kids. 

If you want to compete at that level, you have to train at that level. 95% of our Olympic athletes in ALL the sports are unsponsored and unpaid. 

3000 to 10,000 shots is what it takes at a top level. Sure you can get a form after a few shots. Maybe even an evening. but to do it everytime. Have one bad shot out of 50 in a tournament. That takes 3000 to 10000 shots. 

it is ingrained so its natural and the body does it the same way every time. Any deviation can be noted if its not. They are not bored. They are relaxed and precise. 

I have JOAD kids age 9 to 12 that shoot 150-200 arrows per session, 4 times a week on average. 

Chris


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

Chris, 

A lot of the top Korean archers work and shoot for corporation...no? And most of the top Oly contenders are sponsored? Not disagreeing, just asking.

And yes I can see that they would be relaxed and that would be the main goal, but one would think at some level boredom would arise? The reason I am going there is because this 'stick to it' attitude separates the winners from the losers. I am certain there there are many who are as good as some of the top but didn't hang in there. Duck Dynasty Father Phil is a perfect example for football and I know a lot of guys that could have been pro hockey players if they stuck it out....lol


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

If you make the olympics or shoot for a pro team, then you are in the money. But thats only the top few out of thousands that shoot, and when they go, the next ones are already coming up to push them out. 

The rest arent paid, they shoot for University teams or high school teams. They can make money in coaching, but Korean is a country of archery coaches since they have them at every school, from elementary to College. 

Some Korean archers are only seen for a season, or a few shoots. The pool of shooters is deep. They are not all becoming rich on it. Certainly a few make great money if they can last. Ki Bo Bae, Yun Ok Hee, Park Sung Hyun, ..... but already Ki Bo Bae didnt make the team for a world tournament, and in a local tourney was 20th place. The first place girl Chang Hye Jin, is a tiny super shooter, who also doesnt make all the teams.

The top korean shooters can be out as fast as they are on the team. 

Chris


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## DruFire (Jan 10, 2013)

24 arrow ends, 1000 arrows would not be hard to do In a "work" day.


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## ozzypop (Sep 23, 2010)

His book is worth it just for the pictures and very readible.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

I was talking with resident athlete Lauren Clamon earlier this year and Jeremiah Cusick reportedly shot 2000 arrows at the last Chula Vista OTC 1000 arrow challenge.


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## S.B. (Sep 26, 2012)

Thank you all for your feedback!
I apologize for my ignorance. In my calculations I did not take in consideration real Korean life conditions. My math is still correct, I just did not realize that school kids can have time to shoot 8 hours a day 6 days a week, which just seemed unrealistic to me.
Other claims of Mr. Lee I would like to leave to Limbwalker.
S.B.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

S.B. said:


> Mr. Lee in his book Total Archery claims that Korean archers regularly shoot 1000 arrows per day.
> Assuming the most favorable conditions - 12 arrows per end, 20 seconds to shoot an arrow, 18 meters, 2 minutes to retrieve arrows, it will take 6 minutes to shoot one 12 arrows, one hour to shoot 120 arrows, 8 hours to shoot 960 arrows. No lunch, no breaks, no study.
> If we assume real life conditions, 6 arrows per end, 70 meters, reasonable breaks, it will probably take 16 hours to shoot 1000 arrows.
> Make your own judgement on the rest of his claims.
> S.B.


Two students of mine who are now RAs often shot 400-600 arrows a day at my range-it took them 3-4 hours so 6-8 hours would be in the range for 1000 arrows. 20 seconds and arrow seems rather long for Blank Bale Practice. 

lots of hours is common in many sports. In the early 1980s I played in several US Open table tennis tournaments and the one at Princeton I was in the same suite with european and world champion Mikael Applegren. He told me his normal practice month was 250 hours a practice . Do the math


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Arsi said:


> I was talking with resident athlete Lauren Clamon earlier this year and Jeremiah Cusick reportedly shot 2000 arrows at the last Chula Vista OTC 1000 arrow challenge.


Lets hope Jeremiah shoots 8 really good ones tonight.


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