# Oneida Kestrel?



## Devinocd (May 7, 2014)

Hey guys,
So ive been eye balling the 2013 Oneida Kestrel for a while and have been saving up for it. Ive never shot an oneida bow before and theres no dealers near me. I have done alot of research and concluded they are:
- not very quiet
- very smooth draw
- a bit heavier
- not as fast
- dont need a bow press to tune
- need heavier arrows for good cable life
Ive also heard that the oneidas tend to come out of tune easily, but im not sure if thats true. Ive also heard that the arrows being shot carry more kenetic energy even though the speed is slower? Which im slso not sure is true. 
I love the unique look and the smooth draw. But does a slower arrow make much of a difference? Does it make alot of noise? Or just more than usual? Do they compete with other brands? Are they sll around good bows?


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

A friend of mine shoots Oneidas and has for over 25 years Just shoot heavy arrows 500gr and more if your poundage is 80 shoot 600gr


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## foreveryung (Mar 18, 2011)

I had one of the prototypes for the Kestrel during development a few years ago. It had some things to be worked out, not sure if they did. The string angle and limb tip design was one area of concern, at that time. You could not draw past 28 or the string would come off the limb tips, but it was a prototype. 

I stepped away from the company when prices went up and quality went down. Plastic end caps and other components on a $1400 bow just didn't seem cost effective to me. Nice shooters, but whether to spend the money is a personal choice.


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## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

Never shot a Kestral, but heard there a good Bow...
I own 3 Oneidas and have been shooting them since the 80s..
Mine are a little noisy, but there's ways to quiet them down, there's a kit you can buy from C.P. Oneida for about $20.00..Never been an issue for me...
As far as the Tuning issue, that's not true...I've never had a problem tuning my Oneidas..
As far as speed, there not the fastest today, but there not dogs either..
And you can change the string, I do it all the time by using a string changer for a recurve...
They do hit hard with the heavier arrow, goes through anything i shoot at...


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

the kestrel is a well made bow that is a good shooter...but that's about all it is..just good..not great. its heavy, loud (as are all lever designs no matter what anyone trys to sell you on) and it is extremely over priced for what you get. but if you could find a used one for about 500 bucks that would be a deal. I own a black eagle I believe it is a early 2000 model and it is almost the same spec for spec except it is lighter and was a fraction of the cost .


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## utprizewire (Dec 23, 2012)

On my second Oneida. Had an Aeroforce X80 that was a lot of bow (heavy). Currently own a Black Eagle which is much lighter. These bows are super easy to work on! Easy to replace strings and cables. Strings are cheap, Bought customs from 60X for $ 25-, cables are cheap $ 20 for a set. Checking timing and ease of setup is a positive. Lots of videos to watch as far as timing and setup and replacement of parts. Pretty straight forward. Yes there not going to be super fast but there is absolutely no reason you couldn't hunt deer with it. Hold there re-sale value pretty well. I use mine primarily for bow fishing.

UT


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## utprizewire (Dec 23, 2012)

Pics


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## fatboy111 (Mar 5, 2003)

They are one of the smoothest bows I ever shot. As people said, they are pricey. Have not shot one in awhile but I have to believe they are still the smoothest bows out there.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

I have had two Oneidas, a screaming eagle and a strike eagle. I all have to say is you can pretty much
by any bow made and be better off than buying an Oneida. People seem to either love them or hate them.
I would never waste money on one again.


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

I always get a laugh out of the, "it has more KE even though its slower" comments. KE is KE. You can't magically produce a higher output when the numbers don't produce it. 

You'd be better off getting a 330+ IBO bow with 50lb limbs than with a Kestrel at 70lbs. The 50lb bow will draw smoother and still be faster than the kestrel with the same weight arrow.


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## russr (Jan 16, 2014)

Hi

As you can tell from my sig, I'm on the "love them" side of things.

I'd recommend getting a second-hand Black Eagle II ($500-$600) before thumping down $1,300+. Then, if you really like that, you can flip the BEii (they really hold their value), and go for the Kestrel (though my guess is that if you like it, you will end up with the BEii AND the Kestrel!). Get to know the mechanism, get comfortable tuning, experiment with different arrow weights, etc.

My BEii is one of the quietest bows on the range.

A different option would be to look at the Talon. It max'es out at 55#, but is light, ridiculously smooth, and costs a few $100 less.

Just my $0.02

russ


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

GVDocHoliday said:


> I always get a laugh out of the, "it has more KE even though its slower" comments. KE is KE. You can't magically produce a higher output when the numbers don't produce it.
> 
> You'd be better off getting a 330+ IBO bow with 50lb limbs than with a Kestrel at 70lbs. The 50lb bow will draw smoother and still be faster than the kestrel with the same weight arrow.


Curious. A 50lb wheel bow will draw _easier_, but not smoother than a 70lb Oneida and it certainly will not be faster with the same arrow if it is over 400grns. As far as KE goes Oneida's don't have the speed to post the big numbers. They'll launch a telephone pole, but they lack speed. I have seen a custom Stealth post 300+fps at the range, but I don't know what the arrow weighed. It was fast, quiet, but not really quiet. My BEII matches the no No Cam HTR for speed, but is not as light, quiet or as dead in the hand. It is a smoother draw though. 

Oneida bows have evolved into a steady, smooth drawing bow. I hate to say it, but they are an old man's bow - unique and easy to shoot just like CP wants them. Once the company has moved beyond his grasp we may see technical changes that bring down the weight and up speed. We may just as likely see the company fade away.


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## LFM (Jan 10, 2004)

kentuckyshooter said:


> the kestrel is a well made bow that is a good shooter...but that's about all it is..just good..not great. its heavy, loud (as are all lever designs no matter what anyone trys to sell you on) and it is extremely over priced for what you get. but if you could find a used one for about 500 bucks that would be a deal. I own a black eagle I believe it is a early 2000 model and it is almost the same spec for spec except it is lighter and was a fraction of the cost .


First off the BE I is very different as to Design the geometry has been changed that is why there was a BE II the riser is also been changed over the years they knew this when Claude Pollington Bought the company, many did not like the draw cycle the early BE's had and it was worked on over the years that is when they come out with the BE II and they continue to refine the riser design over the years with the Falcon and now the Kestrel. You can't tell it unless you have these bows side by side to see the changes and the cams location. I have never owned any of the New one since I had a BE I the draw cycle was very different than the Aero Force and also now what I shoot the Lite Force Magnum Model but the older Oneidsa prior to the Stealth and BE had Pylons and the geometry was more of an even triangle where as with the cams attached directly to riser was a lopsided triangle which made the draw cycle different. So they continued to work on that to get it closer to what the older Oneidas had.

The older one like the AF was die cast riser the newer ones are machined and alloy riser which makes it much lighter and a heavy arrow helps absorb the energy the bow used but many use too light an arrow and that is where most of the noise comes from the bow itself has to try and absorb the energy and can't that is why Oneida's have always used a heavy arrow to get the noise down and give better performance from the bow. Plus the noise is just a different sound that other compounds that is why some notice it and talk like it is a big concerned the deer I have taken don't notice he noise because you don't heard it and all I have is some sims on the limbs, moleskin material underneath the string near the limb tips and Bowjaxs on the string. never had any come out of "tune" once they are set it is good unless you stop a limb from moving on release which can happen but is not that common if you are familiar with shooting and Oneida.

Been to the factory many times years back but don't get there much now that Matt Pollington is no longer working there... He was good with all Oneidas new and older models especially if you had a custom made one like a LFM that is 46 inch tip to tip and wanted cables for it. But the current pricing is hard to accept when I have 3 LFMs for what you would pay for a new one. But the LFM's seem to be going up in a resale situation today.

LFM


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## Devinocd (May 7, 2014)

But is arrow speed an important factor? Does it make a difference depending on the type of archery you do or the arrow flight?


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

Nope. A fast arrow will shoot flatter over long distance, but at hunting ranges (20-40yrds) the difference between a 250fps bow and a 300+fps bow is a few hundreths of a second.


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

Even if Oneida bows were a quarter of their price, they'd still be over priced. The ONLY reason to spend that sum of money for one of those bows is if you won the lottery and thought they were cool looking. 

Other than that, they are the butt joke of the archery world.


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

The troll has spoken!


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## russr (Jan 16, 2014)

No, no, no... not the Troll, not the Ogre...

The other character from the movie... the one jumping up and down yelling "Pick Me, Pick Me".

What's he called again...? Burro... no, not that, it'll come to me...

And yes, Mr 1955 - I DO like my gear, and I take pride in it.

As a "professional" in the industry, you never know who will walk in the door next, and I hope that sometime you unknowingly denigrate or demean your future boss/wife/inspector/auditor.

Y'all have a wonderful New Year! (even you, '55).

russ


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

Hahaha. You kids just HATE it when someone exposes those junk bows. I could care less about name calling. Just shows your colors. Carry on.


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

Back on topic - the Kestrel has been around since 2010. You can find a used one and see if you like it. If not, sell it for what you bought it for. Oneida's hold their value better than most bows.


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

russr said:


> No, no, no... not the Troll, not the Ogre...
> 
> The other character from the movie... the one jumping up and down yelling "Pick Me, Pick Me".
> 
> ...


You walk into my door with one of those bows, and I'll be diplomatic, or professional as you put it, and I'll treat you like any customer, but I won't work on your Oneida. And IF you ask me what I thinks of them, if pushed, I'll tell you what I think of them. Because I'm there to HELP customers. And that's why I respond to the threads, I want to help future archers. But by all means, you can also troll it up.


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## w8indq (Dec 9, 2013)

Watch out 1955 will report ya if you bash him while he's bashing Oneidas, already been through this with him apparently he doesn't five a rats butt about us lonely finger shooters wanting a nice bow


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## MrSinister (Jan 23, 2003)

GVDocHoliday said:


> I always get a laugh out of the, "it has more KE even though its slower" comments. KE is KE. You can't magically produce a higher output when the numbers don't produce it.
> 
> You'd be better off getting a 330+ IBO bow with 50lb limbs than with a Kestrel at 70lbs. The 50lb bow will draw smoother and still be faster than the kestrel with the same weight arrow.


This is a tough truth to get around these days. If you have interest and "smooth" is your draw then anyone should compare first. Get an arrow no not an arrow that weighs three pounds cause lever limb bows don't need heavy arrows either that is just another myth. Just take an average arrow and shoot it through the smooth drawing lever bow. Now take another modern design and shoot that same arrow and drop weight till they have the same arrow speed/kinetic energy I also get a kick out of that hard hitting kinetic energy argument as math is math and energy is energy. If it is slower it has less engergy. Once you get the arrow going the same speed from both bows tell me how much smoother they really are. All this from someone that loves lever limb bows and has one on the wall right now. It is an honest test and anyone who has the lever bows for that smooth draw should try the test and see what smooth draw means in the real world. I also think the Kestrel is WAY overpriced. They have been using cheap parts and jacking the prices. If I were in your shoes I would take my time keep an eye open and get a black eagle used at about 1/3 the price and likely a better build.


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

Since when is easy smooth? No wheel bow I've drawn is as smooth as an Oneida. Are there easier drawing low weight bows? Yes. My wife's Talon is much easier to draw than my BEII. That goes without saying. I just did a side by side with the HTR and it is not as smooth as my BEII. Speed wise they were nearly the same + 2 fps for the HTR. My bow has a whisker bisket and more grains on the string than the HTR did so it's a toss up speedwise. I was expecting it to be 5-10 fps faster than my old bow. The Chill X is only slightly faster than my BEII with the same arrow ~6 fps. Both are smooth bows, but neither are as smooth as my Oneidas. I'd like to compare a Monster lever bow one day as I've heard they are one of the smoothest (not easiest) period. In the end I don't expect a wheel bow to be an Oneida or vice versa. A lever limb bow will never get the speed of a top flight wheel bow because they have too much mass moving with the string. It's simple physics. Wheel bows don't have the added mass to move that lever limb bows do. If you really want to see what a lever limb bow vs. a wheel bow can do figure out what the added mass the outboard limbs plus cams is vs. a wheel bow's moving parts and then subtract that from the arrow weight and see what your fps total adds up to. Get what interests you and go from there. Tools like 1955 do more to harm than good in the archery community. Some people will never get it.


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## MrSinister (Jan 23, 2003)

Since you are a follower of the hood and no I don't mean the one and only Hood of AT I mean this generations version of the green arrow I give them a hats off for use of the lever bow in the series and they almost nailed it but they could have nice no cam in his hands lol get it no cam. Sorry for the bad picture was just out shooting it and snapped a quick pic before putting it up.


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

Nice. Is that a Dragon?


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## MrSinister (Jan 23, 2003)

No that is the little phoenix. all the strings and cables are flemish twist it is a cool little rig.


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## thenson (Mar 23, 2004)

MrSinister... are you interested in selling or trading your Phoenix?

Back to the thread, when you talk about smooth draw, you should take a look at some discussions on "Draw Curves". For example, if you go to Google and type in "compound bow draw curves" and then select "images" you will see that for as many bow makes and models there are, there are as many different draw curves and what one person calls smooth, might not be the same as what another person wants or expects. Here is the google link,

https://www.google.com/search?q=com...F%2Farcherytalkblog.com%2F%3Fp%3D1463;656;419

I've owned several Oneida's. Tomcat, Tomcat II, Stealth, Discovery (no-cam), Black Eagle, and still have one of the early Black Eagles with the all machined riser. I've always heard about the LFM magnum, but have never owned one. To me, the Oneida bows are smooth because I like a bow curve that does NOT have the harsh transitions and I also like a decent sized valley before you hit the wall and I also like a lot of let-off. But I cannot comment on the newer models.

In regards to the noise and tuning, I've seen a LOT of Oneida's that are not properly tuned. But any bow will not perform as well if it is out of tune. Maybe the Oneida's are more sensitive to being out of tune, but they are very easy to learn how to tune then and keep them in tune. I am the type of person that I want to be able to do the bow maintenance myself. I don't like having to depend on a bow tech at an archery store that either does not know the intricacies of my brand of bow, or who might even be an Oneida hater... I've also seen many people more interested in bashing an Oneida rather that trying to understand one and shooting it. I would venture to bet that most Oneida haters have either never owned one or has owned one and didn't bother to learn how to set it up and tune it...

I'm an advocate of what I call, "The Fun Factor" or "Shooting Enjoyment Factor"... and this is how I really got into shooting more seriously and for fun. 

I had owned several bows in the past and had hunted for some time when my Brother gave me his old Black Eagle bow. Well let me tell you, partly because of the fact that it was a very special gift and that it so much fun to shoot, it turned archery into a passion for me. The combination of the draw curve being so smooth and the valley and letoff, it was an amazing difference for me. That is when I really got excited about archery and started shooting for fun. After that I eventually got to the point where I was shooting around 500 to 700 shots a week. Then by a strange circumstance I ended up at an archery shop in the Nashville, Tennessee area and met a young man named Chance Beabeauf. A young man that I soon found out had won several National indoor championships. 

I say all of that because finding a bow that I truly loved to shoot and a bow that made shooting fun, I developed one of the most enjoyable passions of my entire life... So, if you like the unique look, feel and draw curve of the Oneida, don't let anyone keep you from getting the bow that makes shooting fun for you...

Good luck and don't let all of the negative posts change your mind...

Go for it and enjoy shooting.

thenson


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## w8indq (Dec 9, 2013)

thenson said:


> MrSinister... are you interested in selling or trading your Phoenix?
> 
> Back to the thread, when you talk about smooth draw, you should take a look at some discussions on "Draw Curves". For example, if you go to Google and type in "compound bow draw curves" and then select "images" you will see that for as many bow makes and models there are, there are as many different draw curves and what one person calls smooth, might not be the same as what another person wants or expects. Here is the google link,
> 
> ...


This times a gazillion, great post dude


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

mechahayai said:


> Since when is easy smooth? No wheel bow I've drawn is as smooth as an Oneida. Are there easier drawing low weight bows? Yes. My wife's Talon is much easier to draw than my BEII. That goes without saying. I just did a side by side with the HTR and it is not as smooth as my BEII. Speed wise they were nearly the same + 2 fps for the HTR. My bow has a whisker bisket and more grains on the string than the HTR did so it's a toss up speedwise. I was expecting it to be 5-10 fps faster than my old bow. The Chill X is only slightly faster than my BEII with the same arrow ~6 fps. Both are smooth bows, but neither are as smooth as my Oneidas. I'd like to compare a Monster lever bow one day as I've heard they are one of the smoothest (not easiest) period. In the end I don't expect a wheel bow to be an Oneida or vice versa. A lever limb bow will never get the speed of a top flight wheel bow because they have too much mass moving with the string. It's simple physics. Wheel bows don't have the added mass to move that lever limb bows do. If you really want to see what a lever limb bow vs. a wheel bow can do figure out what the added mass the outboard limbs plus cams is vs. a wheel bow's moving parts and then subtract that from the arrow weight and see what your fps total adds up to. Get what interests you and go from there. * Tools like 1955* do more to harm than good in the archery community. Some people will never get it.


You are absolutely right!!! Tools like me and other tools that have shot Oneida bows will NEVER understand why someone would pay 1400 dollars for 20 year old bow, with outdated technology and NO dealer support at all!

Continue with the name calling, it just shows where you're coming from.


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## thenson (Mar 23, 2004)

You know, I don't understand why some people would shoot a $1500 stick bow. I also don't know why people would pay $150 or more for a flashlight. I also don't know why a person would be overly concerned about arrow speed??? Bottom line is that there are many, many things I don't know and I also don't know why people would want to bash a bow or a bow maker just because they happen to not like that brand. If a person likes a unique design bow or a bow with a unique draw cycle, then so be it. Let them enjoy it. I hate bows that have a very short valley and a wall that you have to really keep pressure on to keep you on the wall, but I'm certain that there are more people here that would disagree with me on this and maybe the experts would even tell me that having to hold hard pressure to keep your bow at the wall before the shot makes you a better archer... So be it, but that is not what I like to shoot.

I think it is helpful to people to tell them your experiences and to give them factual information that would help them, but to just generalize or globalize your opinions on a subject is just not helpful. I could almost guarantee you that no matter what model or brand of bow, I'm sure that there are dozens of people that could tell you horror stories about their experiences with any bow model or bow company in the world.

I'm not intending to specifically call anyone in this thread out, I'm just saying that what one person's experience has been might not necessarily mean that is how things will be with everyone.

I admire companies like Oneida and others that choose to be different and to challenge the status quo. Granted I think they might be overpriced but what bow these days isn't? I can remember back when I first started posting here on AT, the most money you could possibly spend on any bow on the planet was around $750.00 for a bare bow and less than 10 years later you can easily spend double that for a bare bow. 

So yes, I think all bows are over priced.
And yes, I think all bows are using somewhat older technology. The only real innovations I've seen in Archery in the past decade is mainly in materials and a huge increase in the types and varieties of accessories. In my mind, the biggest innovation I've seen in archery was what Monster Bows LLC was founded on when they initially started out. It is unfortunately they original founders could not have stayed together. Together I'm confident they would have eventually hit on a design that would have truly been innovative...

So, if a guy is leaning toward Oneida or some other brand then by all means give your inputs and experiences but if you help them find joy in archery or help them turn it into a passion, who cares if they shoot a pink bow or a $2000 hand-made bow made from dried turkey bladders...

Just my humble opinion...

Find the passion, teach a young person to love archery..

thenson


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## Chelsey Day (Dec 1, 2008)

great bow fellow lefty...I miss mine


MrSinister said:


> Since you are a follower of the hood and no I don't mean the one and only Hood of AT I mean this generations version of the green arrow I give them a hats off for use of the lever bow in the series and they almost nailed it but they could have nice no cam in his hands lol get it no cam. Sorry for the bad picture was just out shooting it and snapped a quick pic before putting it up.


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## CHERRY99 (Jul 23, 2010)

1955 said:


> Even if Oneida bows were a quarter of their price, they'd still be over priced. The ONLY reason to spend that sum of money for one of those bows is if you won the lottery and thought they were cool looking.
> 
> Other than that, they are the butt joke of the archery world.


You have nothing to offer except insults and ignorance yet you continue to add your crap to every Oneida thread that comes up, its clear your not a fan but obviously your not here to help anyone or add anything inteligent to the conversation then seem offended when called a ''troll or ''tool''. Truth is you meet the definition of both, please go away and play with the other children.....


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

CHERRY99 said:


> You have nothing to offer except insults and ignorance yet you continue to add your crap to every Oneida thread that comes up, its clear your not a fan but obviously your not here to help anyone or add anything inteligent to the conversation then seem offended when called a ''troll or ''tool''. Truth is you meet the definition of both, please go away and play with the other children.....


I believe I am helping people. I'm warning them. And then, if they choose to by an Oneida, they know what they're getting into. I have not called anyone on the thread ANY names at all, but I have been attacked by all the Oneida fanboys (ok, that time I did call a name...but fanboy is a common term used here in the AT to describe someone who defends a bow to the exclusion of logic).

If you're an Oneida lover, then by all means, defend your brand, but I will continue to try and help new archers. And letting them know that they can buy a new top of the line carbon bow, for the same price as a new Oneida, then they may try to educate themselves further and come to an informed decision. And if they then buy an Oneida, I'm happy for them.

Now please, continue with the personal attacks.


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## steve101610 (Nov 8, 2012)

What experience with oneidas do you have 1955? Im just curious as to why you have such a harsh view on oneida bows. I have a black eagle and love it but i also own a few other wheel bows and love them too. I understand everyone has their own opinion but your seems to be so strongly against oneidas without really any good justification. To the op if you get a chance go shoot one and decide for yourself. Oneida bows are a very different bow and an absolute joy to shoot but that is my opinion based on my personal experience with them.


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## russr (Jan 16, 2014)

@1955
I'm not sure about the other folks on this and most other Oneida threads, but I search for Oneida-related links so that I can participate constructively, learn, or maybe occasionally (hopefully!) buy an Oneida on my wish-list.

Your negative presence on so many Oneida threads means that YOU actively search out Oneida-related threads so you can spew your vitriolic nonsense all over the place. Hence Troll, Tool, and several other names that we have all thought of but refrained from using due to our respect for AT.

Whatever it was, get over it already - you seem quite erudite, so why haven't you presented your case (i.e. fact-based argument for your stance).
You carry on about $1,400 bows, whether the thread is about an H-250 or a Kestrel - we all know that the Kestrel is probably over-priced. So is the No Cam HTR, Element G3, etc., etc., etc. To the post above from Thenson, I believe, most top-of-the-line bows ARE crazy expensive. 

To summarize:
Get over it
Avoid the temptation of Trolling threads where no-one is looking for negative input (as opposed to constructive criticism, which we have yet to see from you)

Have great day, and once again, Happy New Year, everyone!

russ


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## BMG (Aug 1, 2008)

mechahayai said:


> Since when is easy smooth? No wheel bow I've drawn is as smooth as an Oneida. Are there easier drawing low weight bows? Yes. My wife's Talon is much easier to draw than my BEII. That goes without saying. I just did a side by side with the HTR and it is not as smooth as my BEII. Speed wise they were nearly the same + 2 fps for the HTR. My bow has a whisker bisket and more grains on the string than the HTR did so it's a toss up speedwise. I was expecting it to be 5-10 fps faster than my old bow. The Chill X is only slightly faster than my BEII with the same arrow ~6 fps. Both are smooth bows, but neither are as smooth as my Oneidas. I'd like to compare a Monster lever bow one day as I've heard they are one of the smoothest (not easiest) period. In the end I don't expect a wheel bow to be an Oneida or vice versa. A lever limb bow will never get the speed of a top flight wheel bow because they have too much mass moving with the string. It's simple physics. Wheel bows don't have the added mass to move that lever limb bows do. If you really want to see what a lever limb bow vs. a wheel bow can do figure out what the added mass the outboard limbs plus cams is vs. a wheel bow's moving parts and then subtract that from the arrow weight and see what your fps total adds up to. Get what interests you and go from there. Tools like 1955 do more to harm than good in the archery community. Some people will never get it.


I'd like to see an apples to apples comparison video of a Kestrel vs Chill X. Same draw weight (measured), same draw length (measured), same arrow, and same chrono. No way is a Kestrel that close in speed to any modern compound let alone a Chill X. I would think a longbow/recurve is a closer comparison in speed to an Oneida.


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## russr (Jan 16, 2014)

BMG said:


> I'd like to see an apples to apples comparison video of a Kestrel vs Chill X. Same draw weight (measured), same draw length (measured), same arrow, and same chrono. No way is a Kestrel that close in speed to any modern compound let alone a Chill X. I would think a longbow/recurve is a closer comparison in speed to an Oneida.


Boy, do I have a deal for you...

Y'all buy me a Kestrel, and I'll provide it for testing purposes!

(Disclaimer to be stated at a high rate, but don't worry, does not cause death. Nature of said testing will be NDT (non-destructive testing), just in case anyone wants to get their jollies by destroying my soon-to-be-bought-for-me-bow! In the interest of full disclosure, mechahayai was talking about a BEii (Black Eagle 2), but let's not digress... anyone up for getting me a Kestrel... anyone?!)

:wink:

russ


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

BMG said:


> I'd like to see an apples to apples comparison video of a Kestrel vs Chill X. Same draw weight (measured), same draw length (measured), same arrow, and same chrono. No way is a Kestrel that close in speed to any modern compound let alone a Chill X.


No problem. It might be a while before I have my hands on a Chill X again, but sure. Switchback XT, Chill X, HTR and most other 'smooth' bows all hang out in the same neighborhood as an Oneida when it comes to real world speed (= to or <10fps faster). Even the 'hotter' bows i.e. Nitrum turbo and the like are still only 20-30ish fps faster when you put a 400+grn arrow on the string. It might be fun to see what a 16yr old Stealth does as well.


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## foreveryung (Mar 18, 2011)

Here's a photo of the prototype I mentioned earlier that I was sent to evaluate. I think it was in '09, but I'm not 100% sure of the date at the moment. I shot the bows, enjoyed them, but would not do business with them again. I had been asked to do some writing for them, and a verbal agreement was made. In my world, that was a gentleman's agreement. Compensation for my time was offered, but never delivered after I supplied the requested material. And they did use the writing online, in their catalog and some of my wording is still in use today. I lost some of my time, but more importantly, it showed me the character of those running the company.


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## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

1955 said:


> You walk into my door with one of those bows, and I'll be diplomatic, or professional as you put it, and I'll treat you like any customer, but I won't work on your Oneida. And IF you ask me what I thinks of them, if pushed, I'll tell you what I think of them. *Because I'm there to HELP customers. And that's why I respond to the threads,* I want to help future archers. But by all means, you can also troll it up.


This is the same reason why I try to tell people not to buy a QAD, because they are garbage and will break and the only way you can fix them is send it back. That's why people speak praises of their customer service... because SO MANY PEOPLE have had to send the rests back. But they still keep buying them. And I'll still keep buying Limb Drivers that don't fail as often and when they do, I take them apart and fix them and they are good as new. But apparently based on your sig you like them. And I won't be trolling some QAD post on here.

Do you see my point?

So why don't you just go back to whatever hole you came from.


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

As an Oneida shooter you get used to trash talk from 'pro shop' tools like this guy. At least he knows Oneida is still producing bows. Most shops don't even know that. I've only found one shop owner that was an Oneida fan. The rest have no clue when I pull my bow out of the case.


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## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

I have had no problems with CP Oneida, Costumer Service, or the old Oneida company.... I just sent them a Strike Eagle Oneida from the late 1980s for a new timing system and yokes, cost me $90.00 with S&H...I normally do my own work on them but couldn't figure out this one, which was well worth it to me....What archery company today, works on, or refurbishes older 1980s Bows, none that i can think of....I will stick with CP Oneida, the Pollingtons are great people to work with....I really don't care about a few FPS, i think it's overrated...


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## w8indq (Dec 9, 2013)

Chelsey Day said:


> my dad can tell a bunch of issues and bad business practices by cp Oneida employees and like...as well as issues with unethical actions by other American lever bow builders.


1955 call you in again? You both love these threads huh?


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## Devinocd (May 7, 2014)

thenson said:


> You know, I don't understand why some people would shoot a $1500 stick bow. I also don't know why people would pay $150 or more for a flashlight. I also don't know why a person would be overly concerned about arrow speed??? Bottom line is that there are many, many things I don't know and I also don't know why people would want to bash a bow or a bow maker just because they happen to not like that brand. If a person likes a unique design bow or a bow with a unique draw cycle, then so be it. Let them enjoy it. I hate bows that have a very short valley and a wall that you have to really keep pressure on to keep you on the wall, but I'm certain that there are more people here that would disagree with me on this and maybe the experts would even tell me that having to hold hard pressure to keep your bow at the wall before the shot makes you a better archer... So be it, but that is not what I like to shoot.
> 
> I think it is helpful to people to tell them your experiences and to give them factual information that would help them, but to just generalize or globalize your opinions on a subject is just not helpful. I could almost guarantee you that no matter what model or brand of bow, I'm sure that there are dozens of people that could tell you horror stories about their experiences with any bow model or bow company in the world.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this!! 
Why do the oneida Bows need a heavier arrow?


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## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

Chelsey Day said:


> great bow fellow lefty...I miss mine


Who's your daddy suppose to be...


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

I see you had her post deleted . but I know the facts behind some of it as I was on the spot one time for some of cp's bad behavior so I would think maybe you know less about that subject and should maybe focus on picking on men and not girls


w8indq said:


> 1955 call you in again? You both love these threads huh?


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## Cold Weather (Dec 17, 2008)

What I find funny no one here actually seems to have seen or shot a kestrel. Gee I wonder why? If someone had posted of newest PSE Mathews or Hoyt?

It says much after 30 plus years on the market dealers do not carry this line.

My personal experience with an Oneida unreliable difficult to work on.

I was at a 3D a few years ago and the only Oneida broke down.

For 1400 bucks I would never by a Kestrel and I say that assuming this bow has its kinks worked out.


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

I recently (a few months ago) acquired a Black Eagle and its a nice bow. I didn't find it hard to work on but my old neighbor is a Oneida guru so the learning curve was minimal. I like it but im not over whelmed with it


Cold Weather said:


> What I find funny no one here actually seems to have seen or shot a kestrel. Gee I wonder why? If someone had posted of newest PSE Mathews or Hoyt?
> 
> It says much after 30 plus years on the market dealers do not carry this line.
> 
> ...


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## w8indq (Dec 9, 2013)

kentuckyshooter said:


> I see you had her post deleted . but I know the facts behind some of it as I was on the spot one time for some of cp's bad behavior so I would think maybe you know less about that subject and should maybe focus on picking on men and not girls


Lol I did nothing actually, I have never reported anyone on any forum for anything that has been said


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

well that is maybe true. my apologies for jumping the gun but she probably knows more about lever bows then most on here and im sure some have a axe to grind and will try to take it out on her which is total BS but it is the way of some keyboard tuff guys


w8indq said:


> Lol I did nothing actually, I have never reported anyone on any forum for anything that has been said


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

like I said before I have seen some sad actions " personally " by several CP factory reps and clingers on . and many witnesses too at the very first Rhine Hart shoot at Lincoln Bowman in Michigan (years ago) long before I knew anyone involved .


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## w8indq (Dec 9, 2013)

kentuckyshooter said:


> like I said before I have seen some sad actions " personally " by several CP factory reps and clingers on . and many witnesses too at the very first Rhine Hart shoot at Lincoln Bowman in Michigan (years ago) long before I knew anyone involved .


I could care less about what cp oneida did or didnt do, my quarrel is the bashing of the different types of bows and every post on oneidas I see 1955 being a d bag, and last time I spoke up to him he reported me lol


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## Lost Sheep (Oct 24, 2013)

kentuckyshooter said:


> like I said before I have seen some sad actions " personally " by several CP factory reps and clingers on . and many witnesses too at the very first Rhine Hart shoot at Lincoln Bowman in Michigan (years ago) long before I knew anyone involved .


I think it’s pretty lame to insinuate a company has unethical business practices without stepping up and saying what they are. I have never owned an Oneida but I have been a fan of the design for some time. Posts from 1955 and the like do not discourage me from wanting a lever bow. However, I would like to know if there is a legitimate reason not to do business with this company or if this is just a personal attack.


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

Lost Sheep said:


> I think it’s pretty lame to insinuate a company has unethical business practices without stepping up and saying what they are. I have never owned an Oneida but I have been a fan of the design for some time. Posts from 1955 and the like do not discourage me from wanting a lever bow. However, I would like to know if there is a legitimate reason not to do business with this company or if this is just a personal attack.


well I watched a fat no tooth man and a younger ponytail punk and a few other of the Oneida group (they had a sad little booth in the club) dodge several targets to catch up to Chelseys dad and his group and then started calling names and said they stole the monster design etc...it was a lot of years ago but I watched it and so did several others. her dad handled himself well and the people that were backed up for this bs attack from cp all thought Oneida should be thrown into the parking lot. low lifes and classless is exactly what they were and how they acted. that's my take on it . ive heard a lot more but its all hear say but I think when you read the post above about Oneida stiffing services and then you see what I saw it kind of says it all . I didn't really think much on it then as who knew monster and who really thought Oneida was anything in modern archery...but after meeting Mike and others from monster and Oneida I soon realized who were the good and the bad and the ugly


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## Lost Sheep (Oct 24, 2013)

kentuckyshooter said:


> well I watched a fat no tooth man and a younger ponytail punk and a few other of the Oneida group (they had a sad little booth in the club) dodge several targets to catch up to Chelseys dad and his group and then started calling names and said they stole the monster design etc...it was a lot of years ago but I watched it and so did several others. her dad handled himself well and the people that were backed up for this bs attack from cp all thought Oneida should be thrown into the parking lot. low lifes and classless is exactly what they were and how they acted. that's my take on it . ive heard a lot more but its all hear say but I think when you read the post above about Oneida stiffing services and then you see what I saw it kind of says it all . I didn't really think much on it then as who knew monster and who really thought Oneida was anything in modern archery...but after meeting Mike and others from monster and Oneida I soon realized who were the good and the bad and the ugly


Well a spat on the 3D course doesn't mean much or say much to me. From my perspective it seems that many of the Oneida critics have some other dog in the fight or vested interest in bashing the brand. I think I'll still get one.


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

Lost Sheep said:


> Well a spat on the 3D course doesn't mean much or say much to me. From my perspective it seems that many of the Oneida critics have some other dog in the fight or vested interest in bashing the brand. I think I'll still get one.


there was more too it then that ...but it shows how tacky the Oneida guys are I think the pony tail guy was Jamie or Justin or something like that ...but a spat on a 3d course is no different then a spat anywhere else..its not professional and it just really made them look bad in the eyes of everyone that had to witness it...so that may be acceptable to you but then again you might be that kind of person..but to me it was dumb and should have poured into the parking lot for a fight lol.. it may have taken the 5 Oneida guys to take Mike out


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## Lost Sheep (Oct 24, 2013)

kentuckyshooter said:


> there was more too it then that ...but it shows how tacky the Oneida guys are I think the pony tail guy was Jamie or Justin or something like that ...but a spat on a 3d course is no different then a spat anywhere else..its not professional and it just really made them look bad in the eyes of everyone that had to witness it...so that may be acceptable to you but then again you might be that kind of person..but to me it was dumb and should have poured into the parking lot for a fight lol.. it may have taken the 5 Oneida guys to take Mike out


Usually when guys argue nothing much happens and men agree to let bygones be bygones. That is why I try not to draw conclusions unless there is a pattern of behavior. You seem like a nice kid and it is your prerogative if you can't let go of the incident all these years later. And as for this Mike guy you speak of they must really have gotten to him if he was ready to fight all five by himself. Anyone can take a little ribbing but when the truth mixes with insult all of a sudden 1 guy can take on all 5. Lol.

This hate relationship some have with the Oneida brand and my desire for something different really drives me to check these bows out.


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## mechahayai (Dec 24, 2013)

There's no point trying to sort out who can't get along with who and/or why. It's all water under the bridge now. I can't think of one bad thing to say about any of the Oneida bows or the guys involved in the spinoff bows and accessories. It's just a shame that the company itself isn't stronger today than it is. The design has more potential. Hopefully, we will see someone develop it in the near future. At any rate, Happy New Year!


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

im an adult and Mike didn't let them get to him , what I was saying is that is what everyone said should have happened as the Oneida guys deserved it for 1, skipping targets to start (or try) to start a scene..and 2 for holding everyone up and being a general pack of idiots...those kind of people do not change...what does stick in my memory most about it was the fat toothless guy, if that is the type of representation you have for your company then that would explain why its like it is. (so it was the Oneida guys trying to start the fight) mike was as calm as a cucumber .. and the other odd note is Mike was shooting with a friend of the owner of Oneida , so whats that say for the respect of those guys...either way I like my BE but like I said its not the WOW bow a lot would lead you to believe.


Lost Sheep said:


> Usually when guys argue nothing much happens and men agree to let bygones be bygones. That is why I try not to draw conclusions unless there is a pattern of behavior. You seem like a nice kid and it is your prerogative if you can't let go of the incident all these years later. And as for this Mike guy you speak of they must really have gotten to him if he was ready to fight all five by himself. Anyone can take a little ribbing but when the truth mixes with insult all of a sudden 1 guy can take on all 5. Lol.
> 
> This hate relationship some have with the Oneida brand and my desire for something different really drives me to check these bows out.


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## kentuckyshooter (Mar 16, 2009)

I would like to see it better but wow could you imagine the price they would dream up if they did any real changes


mechahayai said:


> There's no point trying to sort out who can't get along with who and/or why. It's all water under the bridge now. I can't think of one bad thing to say about any of the Oneida bows or the guys involved in the spinoff bows and accessories. It's just a shame that the company itself isn't stronger today than it is. The design has more potential. Hopefully, we will see someone develop it in the near future. At any rate, Happy New Year!


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## CHERRY99 (Jul 23, 2010)

Haven't heard of anything new coming from Oneida in a very long time, they really need a machined riser hunting bow that is ''below'' $1,000 to be competitive with all the great bows out there today. See no reason for Oneida to have a new model yearly like mainstream bow companies as most differences year to year are minor but they are due in my opinion just to have more offerings. From what i've seen and heard the Kesrel is a fine bow for sure but even though I'm a Oneida believer I don't see me spending 1,400 on one , thats double what I paid for my BEII and its basically built the same (materials anyway)and in 2012 I picked up a Hoyt Vector 35 for $900 ( the most i've dished out yet for a bow) both have been great bows my point is it would be hard to get someone to spend that much to get into lever bows. Anyone shooting one of the American Eagle bows? This seems to be an improvement especially where some smaller parts are concerned as they have machined idler wheels and limb pockets instead of plastic and I thought the price was around $900 or so. I was drawn to the Oneida bow years ago mainly because the bow had a draw like no other and with minimal maintenance always got the job done, today there other ''wheelie'' companies that concentrate on smooth drawing rigs, elite/Prime even the new Mathews NO-CAM wich are high quality rigs at a much lower cost than Oneida's only true hunting option the Kestrel ( although to me none match that Oneida draw). I would like to see the Oneida people not let this design fade away.


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## thenson (Mar 23, 2004)

Devinocd said:


> Thank you for this!!
> Why do the oneida Bows need a heavier arrow?


I'm not great with the technical differences in the Oneida design bows but can get you some more detailed information if you will PM me. I do know that back when the Oneida Aero Force was new it was as fast as any bow when you shot a relatively heavy arrow, probably not the fastest but back then I remember most people were more interested in kinetic energy than raw speed. I sort of compare it to throwing a baseball. I didn't have a great arm but was probably above average and know that I could throw a baseball pretty hard. But if I tried to throw a whiffle ball as had as I did a baseball it would throw my arm out and hurt like heck... I'm sure that there are physical/mechanical properties that for a bow design would have an optimum weight arrow. I would even bet that the fastest bows might have an optimum arrow weight. It would be interesting to see the results of someone with a new design speed bow to see if the fastest arrow is always the lightest. I'm just guessing but I would bet you could go too light and once you go under the optimum arrow weight, then you would cause the bow to have to absorb more energy therefore making it less efficient or you would begin to damage the bow.

So, I doubt that I've helped answer your question I do know enough about concepts and Einstein's theory that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That is why shooting a properly spined arrow is critical. If the bow can transfer 100% of it's energy into the arrow, then you would have the fastest, most efficient arrow possible. That means that there would be an optimum overall arrow weight but arrow spine also can influence this...

I hope some of the more knowlegible, scientifically minded archers are around and can hopefully clear up what I'm trying to say.

But try what I'm saying. Throw a baseball as hard as you can and then using the same amount of force and energy, throw a whiffle ball or a wadded up piece of paper....

thenson


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## thenson (Mar 23, 2004)

CHERRY99 said:


> Haven't heard of anything new coming from Oneida in a very long time, they really need a machined riser hunting bow that is ''below'' $1,000 to be competitive with all the great bows out there today. See no reason for Oneida to have a new model yearly like mainstream bow companies as most differences year to year are minor but they are due in my opinion just to have more offerings. From what i've seen and heard the Kesrel is a fine bow for sure but even though I'm a Oneida believer I don't see me spending 1,400 on one , thats double what I paid for my BEII and its basically built the same (materials anyway)and in 2012 I picked up a Hoyt Vector 35 for $900 ( the most i've dished out yet for a bow) both have been great bows my point is it would be hard to get someone to spend that much to get into lever bows. Anyone shooting one of the American Eagle bows? This seems to be an improvement especially where some smaller parts are concerned as they have machined idler wheels and limb pockets instead of plastic and I thought the price was around $900 or so. I was drawn to the Oneida bow years ago mainly because the bow had a draw like no other and with minimal maintenance always got the job done, today there other ''wheelie'' companies that concentrate on smooth drawing rigs, elite/Prime even the new Mathews NO-CAM wich are high quality rigs at a much lower cost than Oneida's only true hunting option the Kestrel ( although to me none match that Oneida draw). I would like to see the Oneida people not let this design fade away.


What I would like to see is a bow made with a riser similar to the Martin-Rytera Triad and the Oneida-Discovery no cams, no wheels / lever-lever system on it. If I could have breed the Triad and the Discovery bow with Barnsdale Limbs I'm certain I would have one of the greatest bows in history... call it my dream bow...

If I were to ever win the lottery, I would take what Monster Bows wanted to do when they first started... (note that I say, "when they first started") and find a bow design engineer good enough to perfect that concept. If I was smart enough and had the resources, I would start with the Triad's bridged riser design and add the best limbs I could to create the perfect bow. A riser with built in limb cups, 2 power limbs, 2 hinges, 2 outboard limbs, 4 cables and 1 string. The worlds simplest compound bow with 12 parts... but basically 7 parts not counting string and cables...

thenson


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