# something has got to give



## peter rogers (Nov 1, 2008)

mr.nock said:


> im not talking bad about anybody. just a question how can anybody shoot hc in the ibo and shoot 431 or 433 0r 427 out of a 440 they can not be judging yardage like i am.are they using one pin are they shooting 330 fps does anybody think there will be changes next year because of this


I think this is very possible I normaly shoot open class but wanted to prove this to a friend and shot IBO HC at bedford. I shot a Pearson advantage set at 62 lbs and 28in draw with a 335gr arrow the bow shoots 299fps I had 2 pins on my sight one set at 23 yards ant the other set at 33 yardsI did not judge yardage if the target was close i used the top pin if it was far i used the bottom pin. The first half of the shoot went bad for me and i thought that i was wrong 7 of my first 20 shots were in the 8 ring. then i inspected my arrows only to discover that i had a cracked arrow!! the second half of the shot went much better I shot 16 of 20 in the 11 ring and the other 4 in the 10 ring.I think that we all have the ability to shot great with practice and knowing our equipment. As for making changes I dont know the current rules. In the ASA they would have bumped him up.


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

mr.nock said:


> This is a competition like it or not. So dont cry if it is to rough


Funny how this was your reply to a thread I had about creating another HC So what's wrong? Is it too rough for you now?


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## mr.nock (May 26, 2010)

u got me guess it is to rough still i dont think u have to have a new class fix the one we have


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

mr.nock said:


> im not talking bad about anybody. just a question how can anybody shoot hc in the ibo and shoot 431 or 433 0r 427 out of a 440 they can not be judging yardage like i am.are they using one pin are they shooting 330 fps does anybody think there will be changes next year because of this


Yeah or how about those Pro's that shoot 430 at 330 fps. Should they kick them out? Or make the course longer?

If you want to score higher learn to judge better and shoot better.


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## mr.nock (May 26, 2010)

pro is a open class they can shoot how ever they want hc has RULES like u can not shoot over 285fps pro is 50yrds hc is 35yrds if u shoot fast enough u can use one pin


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

mr.nock said:


> pro is a open class they can shoot how ever they want hc has RULES like u can not shoot over 285fps pro is 50yrds hc is 35yrds if u shoot fast enough u can use one pin


IBO HC doesn't have a speed rule...... I bet many of them are shooting 300+ fps.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Im starting to think adding 5 yards to the yellow red green blue stake mite not be a bad idea. I also think doing away with the big arrows would be a step in the right direction because the targets are taking a beating. I dont like the idea of speed limits or adding new classes unless we get rid of some classes.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

It's rediculous than any Adult class has a 35y max. (sept for the Trad crowd)
40 should be the minimum for sight shooters. ( if you're not wearing diapers.) Now once you go back into them, thats a different class alltogether. :becky:


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## mr.nock (May 26, 2010)

do u think they will make changes next year bowlegged


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

Speed has nothing to do with those guys success. They can flat out shoot and judge yardage...period.

There is no such thing as one pin to cover 0-35yrds. Even at 350fps you will still have about a 4" window so you will still have to hold over/under on almost every target except the elk, and then you still have make the shot and judge the yardage. Those 3" groups at 30yrds make that window about 7" now.

I guess it depends on your reason for going. If you want a trophy...well, you are likely out of luck. If you want to go have fun, then do just that. 

I do believe that if they want increased participation they need to do 2 things. As I've said other places, create a HC that allows slider sights, known yardage etc as a vast majority hunt that way and won't have to alter their gear. 

Second, create a flight system with payout in HC. Payout won't cost IBO a dime since they can just make it option and add $15 to entry like other classes. 

If you finish in the top 10, you move up to AHC or higher.
If you average over 400 on the year at a national shoot(no matter how many shoots) you will be in A flight.
If you average 380-399 you will be in B flight
If you average <380 you are in C flight.

Period. Pretty simple. This will be figured at the end of each year. Same equipment and rules, just different flights with people shooting against similar ability. 

It's really not rocket science, but some people are set on no change thus stagnation.

Me, I go to have fun. Although I might consider plopping down another $15 if I knew I had a realistic chance to win a class.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

flintcreek6412 said:


> Speed has nothing to do with those guys success. They can flat out shoot and judge yardage...period.
> 
> There is no such thing as one pin to cover 0-35yrds. Even at 350fps you will still have about a 4" window so you will still have to hold over/under on almost every target except the elk, and then you still have make the shot and judge the yardage. Those 3" groups at 30yrds make that window about 7" now.
> 
> ...


Payout in the IBO is already ridiculous.
Flights are worthless. If you are talking about Hunter A, Hunter B and Hunter C classes that's different from flights. But would Hunter A essentially be AHC?


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## birddawg (Jul 23, 2009)

I do not know the answer , but I think a forty yard, fixed pins, all unknown is a great standard for the "HUNTING" class. Its not the target shooting hunters class its the hunter class using hunting equipmet end of subject. If someone consistently places in the class then they should be required to move up.


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

Kstigall said:


> Payout in the IBO is already ridiculous.
> Flights are worthless. If you are talking about Hunter A, Hunter B and Hunter C classes that's different from flights. But would Hunter A essentially be AHC?


Sorry, wrong term used. Yes, Classes.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

mr.nock said:


> do u think they will make changes next year bowlegged


I do believe that the IBO will make a change. They look at all sides and even consider things we don't know about. I think the ahc was a step in the right direction if you look at the people shooting it there are alot of old top hc shooters in it. All I can say is shooting 15 up with fat arrows is hard on targets and I think that needs fixed some how.


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

This is just a rumor but apparently it was overheard at nelsonville that there will be changes in who has to move up next year.


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

one class mbr problem solved


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

mr.nock said:


> pro is a open class they can shoot how ever they want hc has RULES like u can not shoot over 285fps pro is 50yrds hc is 35yrds if u shoot fast enough u can use one pin


Now I am confused. On one had you say HC has rules that you can not shoot over 285 fps, then on the other you say you can shoot 330 fps? What organization are we talking about here? ASA has a max speed of 288 fps. IBO has unlimited.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

For hunters in the IBO the only classes that need be are

Intermidiate 40 yards
Advanced 50 yards

And a FUN Hunters Class that slider sights and range finders can be used for those individuals that come for just fun and practice for hunting.. No prize money...no moveup list and no score card need be turned in..

The intermidiate and advanced will be for serious target shooters with a mandatory moveup list and shooter of the year award!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

It would not hurt me to see MBR removed and the open classes would be 

Amateur 45 yards
Semi Pro 55 yards
Pro 60 yards

moveup list will be mandatory and shooter of the year will be awarded !


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## vtdiamond (Jan 21, 2008)

*classes*

I shoot the HC and dont feel the equipment rules should be changed. Everyone has to shoot the same rules and everyone can get the same equipment. But no matter what you have for equipment, you still have to make the shot. HC was the largest class last year at worlds, around 220 shooters. I know that going into a shoot that every target matters. If I make a single mistake I am not going to win, hell a mistake may cost you 10 places in the final standings. That is a lot of pressure to shoot under and I love it.


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## V.A.S.A (Mar 31, 2009)

*Not correct*



mr.nock said:


> pro is a open class they can shoot how ever they want hc has RULES like u can not shoot over 285fps pro is 50yrds hc is 35yrds if u shoot fast enough u can use one pin


In all actuality....the speed limit is not applicable if an archers arrow weight is legal. Meaning 5 grains per inch...ex. 70 lbs draw requires a 350 grain arrow. The speed from that could produce an arrow at a high 330 or low 340 Fps arrow speed. I dont care if you kno0w the yardage..or have the worlds fastest bow/...you Still have to MAKE THE SHOT> The rules are clear and no more classes please....there are already too many in my honest opinion.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Mr. Nock I can tell you this for a little salt in the wounds.....I personally know the guy who shot the 427 and it was his 4th shoot ever. The guy has been bowhunting for a long time but just never fooled with shooting 3D.

Also.....shooting 20-30 up is not just judging yardage. I could judge yardage perfectly on 40 targets and still probably couldn't shoot 15 up on a great day. 

Guys that shoot those kind of scores can flat out shoot, 35 yards max or not.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

vtdiamond said:


> I shoot the HC and dont feel the equipment rules should be changed. Everyone has to shoot the same rules and everyone can get the same equipment. But no matter what you have for equipment, you still have to make the shot. HC was the largest class last year at worlds, around 220 shooters. I know that going into a shoot that every target matters. If I make a single mistake I am not going to win, hell a mistake may cost you 10 places in the final standings. That is a lot of pressure to shoot under and I love it.


Here is the problem HC is a level 3 adult entery class and not a level 4 advanced adult class. So you can see people like you ( and I'm guilty also ) are not using the class the way it was intended. If the IBO just changed it to level 4 then the way you and everyone else is using it would be fine. But for now it is an entery level class that has no way of keeping people who are clearly not entery level out of it.


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## $dabucks (Mar 1, 2008)

Well said. I really think the IBO should look at the NSCA's rules regarding sporting clays and see if a similar system might work.


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

Its not right to be critical of someone just because we may think they are to good to be in a beginner class. These guys may work 6/7 days a week and only be able to practice blank baling in the dark at night. So you practice your form, get a set up that is IBO weight legal. Shoot as much speed as you can get and know exactly where to hold to hit the 11's. 
The rules dont need to be changed. There is already rules in place for shooters to be moved out of the HC, and please no more classes. There is already HC/SHC and AHC/MBR. All these used to be Pins and release.
My opinion is, the more time you put into archery the more you get out of it. But their is more practice required for each level of competition. So some guys figure that that will spend there time on form and speed and maybe they dont have to put so much time in on judging.
Iam not saying that these guys dont work for what they do. They may know that they dont have the time needed to shoot at another level. So they maximize the time they have to practice.
If there are 2 shooters that both have the same ablity and both shoot the same class. But 1 shooter has a busy life and # 2 shooter is not so busy and gets to spent 4 hrs a day practicing. At the shoots #2 shooter beats#1 shooter. If #2 shooter gets moved out of the class is that going to make the other guy better?
I used to get upset about very high scores from the same people yr after yr in the beginners class. Then I relized that I cant control what the IBO or anybody else does. Only what I do,and you cant fault a person for being good at something. Its like getting mad at tiger woods for playing golf. Either lead follow or get out of the way.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Just thinking If every one that shoots 1 up - 30up in hc level 3 adult entry class would go to the AHC level 4 adult class then you would have the same affect as HC right now. If you shoot an 8 your out of the competition. I think it is more about pleasing your egos and shooting scores like the pros shoot from 50.


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## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

I say, Pro Hunter Class.

$100 to shoot, shoot for the money and get out of the beginner/novice classes. This would clean out both hunter and advanced hunter and the competitors could shoot from the "Ladies Stake" for money and not ego. :wink:

I'd love to see how some of the AHC studs stack up against these newest HC studs! And since it would be a "Pro Class" wouldn't it be cool to have Gillingham , Levi, or someone similar try their hand?


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

It's a National Level shoot with National Level competition. He won't be able to shoot HC next year because he won the Triple Crown but there's 20 more guys right behind him that can put up numbers just as high. There's only one winner at these events.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

maineyotekiller said:


> I say, Pro Hunter Class.
> 
> $100 to shoot, shoot for the money and get out of the beginner/novice classes. This would clean out both hunter and advanced hunter and the competitors could shoot from the "Ladies Stake" for money and not ego. :wink:
> 
> I'd love to see how some of the AHC studs stack up against these newest HC studs! And since it would be a "Pro Class" wouldn't it be cool to have Gillingham , Levi, or someone similar try their hand?


That would be very interesting. I would pay money to watch.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Is it really that big of a deal to win HC? 
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to win a Triple Crown shoot. It's just that it's a LOOOONNNNNNGGGGG ways from being at the top when there are a lot of tougher classes than HC.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

If you kept cleaning out the HC/AHC you'd want to have Open A,B,C,D,E. so everybody have a chance to win in that class too.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

bow-legged said:


> Just thinking If every one that shoots 1 up - 30up in hc level 3 adult entry class would go to the AHC level 4 adult class then you would have the same affect as HC right now. If you shoot an 8 your out of the competition. *I think it is more about pleasing your egos and shooting scores like the pros shoot from 50.*


yep

One of the main reason the Limited classes have been dieing a slow death for years.


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## Fire Archer (Jul 23, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> Is it really that big of a deal to win HC?
> Don't get me wrong, I'd love to win a Triple Crown shoot. It's just that it's a LOOOONNNNNNGGGGG ways from being at the top when there are a lot of tougher classes than HC.


Name another class where 113 shooters shoot even or better as the HC did at Erie. Not saying there aren't more difficult classes to shoot as far as yardage and etc., but the HC is probably the most competitive class besides maybe PMR in the IBO. I think that there should be another class for the HC for those whiners that can't average even or better from the yellow stake should be allowed to shoot from the white stake(CUB). I guess some of you will start bashing the CUB shooters next because they shoot 25 up.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> If you kept cleaning out the HC/AHC you'd want to have Open A,B,C,D,E. so everybody have a chance to win in that class too.


Not AHC just HC it is a beginner class.


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## mr.nock (May 26, 2010)

no that was funny


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## FDL (Sep 7, 2008)

I know most of the top HC guys very good. When I ask them why they stay in HC the common answer is "It may be the hardest class to place in". They are people just like all of you. Do any of you hear any of the top 10 on here saying the HC needs to change. If you dont like the hunter class, dont shoot it. Everyone has a fix for it. My question is fix what. Fix it so no one can shoot 30 up. Has the hunter class become a bunch of great shooters shooting against each other, yes. What makes the Difference. the IBO may call it a beginner class, But its not. Great shooters win HC, just like all the other classes.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Here is a translation of what this thread says:

"It is not fair that good shooters are shooting in the Hunter Class......They need to move up to AHC so a scrub like me won't feel so bad about dropping 75 points on 40 targets."

How funny would it be if the pros started complaining that Levi needs his own class. He wins everything now.....is that fair?

You bet its fair......just like Breedlove dominating HC. Get over it. :binkybaby::binkybaby:


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## xringbob (Oct 30, 2008)

FDL said:


> I know most of the top HC guys very good. When I ask them why they stay in HC the common answer is "It may be the hardest class to place in". They are people just like all of you. Do any of you hear any of the top 10 on here saying the HC needs to change. If you dont like the hunter class, dont shoot it. Everyone has a fix for it. My question is fix what. Fix it so no one can shoot 30 up. Has the hunter class become a bunch of great shooters shooting against each other, yes. What makes the Difference. the IBO may call it a beginner class, But its not. Great shooters win HC, just like all the other classes.


Well said here in Pa and Jersey hc is stacked with great shooters its definitely no walk in the park with these guys


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## 11nator (Aug 31, 2009)

-bowfreak- said:


> Here is a translation of what this thread says:
> 
> "It is not fair that good shooters are shooting in the Hunter Class......They need to move up to AHC so a scrub like me won't feel so bad about dropping 75 points on 40 targets."
> 
> ...


thats right its a bunch or cry babies


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Food for thought

IBO 30 classes
ASA 28 classes

about 15 too many for each !


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Food for thought

IBO 30 classes
ASA 28 classes

about 15 too many for each !


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## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

FDL said:


> the IBO may call it a beginner class, But its not. Great shooters win HC, just like all the other classes.



Who needs a beginner class anyway. 

I'm not saying these guys aren't awesome shooters. I think they're cheating themselves by staying at 35 yards. I don't know the rest of them but, I know Wayne can shoot! Hell, one of them may be the next "Levi"! They can do what they want but, my vote is still...

*HC Pro!*


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## DernHumpus (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm all for less *****ing. I bought my first bow 18 months ago andshooting 3d for just over a year and have had my ass kicked a time or two. If you are tired of getting beat, GET BETTER! Buy the equipment it takes and put in the practice time. I'm now in the top 10% of most shoots I attend.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

DernHumpus said:


> I'm all for less *****ing. I bought my first bow 18 months ago andshooting 3d for just over a year and have had my ass kicked a time or two. If you are tired of getting beat, GET BETTER! Buy the equipment it takes and *put in the practice time.* I'm now in the top 10% of most shoots I attend.



key


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

DernHumpus said:


> I'm all for less *****ing. I bought my first bow 18 months ago andshooting 3d for just over a year and have had my ass kicked a time or two. If you are tired of getting beat, GET BETTER! Buy the equipment it takes and *put in the practice time*. I'm now in the top 10% of most shoots I attend.





CutTheLoop said:


> key



Exactly, most people just expect to show up and win....they dont put into it what they expect to get out of it.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

-bowfreak- said:


> Here is a translation of what this thread says:
> 
> "It is not fair that good shooters are shooting in the Hunter Class......They need to move up to AHC so a scrub like me won't feel so bad about dropping 75 points on 40 targets."
> 
> ...


Do you know why the Pro's now only count 14's in the shoot down? 
Ask around and you'll hear a few reasons. But it was really because one good monster come back on Sunday by the man from Carolina. On Sunday the leaders didn't know the "man" was smoking 14's to make the shootoff and WIN. Bye-Bye 14's......

The "party" line is the 14's were taken out of play because it wasn't "fair" that the leaders didn't know he was going for it AND being successful.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Maybe I'm thinking completely backwards but if I go to a National or big money shoot I WANT to shoot against the best in my class. That is how you find out how you stack up and what you need to do to be those guys. It's not about equipment or who judged better or who shot fatter arrows. These days in 3-d COMPETITION it's about who makes the least mistakes, sometimes even one and your out. Challenge yourself every time out and you will see improvements.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Is it that some equipment is seen as handicapping the shooter? Is it that some provide an advantage to the shooter? Should that be the basis for establishing a class? If so, which piece of equipment gives the advantage to the shooter?

I don't have the answers but I'd be interested to hear the opinion of other folks.

I do think speed provides a benefit to some. If more speed is a result of equipment design then you do what ASA has done; you set a speed limit.

I'm inclined to think that a scope with magnification can benefit some shoters.

I don't know if extreme stabilizer length and/or weight provides that much of an advantage, but to me I've seen some folks shooting "hunting" stabs do pretty well.

I think age can play a role. Having said that, I've seen some 14 and 15 year old kids that can very well hold their own with Open C and Hunter folks. Maybe they should be considered as a target for mandatory move up. Look at the Young Adult results in ASA Pro Ams and see some 20+ up scores.


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## $dabucks (Mar 1, 2008)

Afte having shot sporting clays competitively for years I can see where the IBO has a lot of room for improvement. But, I don't know how to fix it. In Sporting Clays you don't have the yardage or equipment differences and the punch system works well. I cold see where HC could be split into NC (novice class), HC hunter class, and AHC advanced. Equipement rules are the same and once you hae so many punches you move up.

Also, I would not get caught up in how many classes there are. If there nees to be 35 to draw more shooters to the competitive shoots then it needs to be 35.

In Sporting there are only 8, but as I said, there are no yardage or equipment classes. Also, at the "triple crowns" of sporting clays you are like to get less than 75 shooters in the novice classes os there is much less competition.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

I was just wondering......."WHO" said that the IBO Hunter class was a class for beginners, or novice, or "Entry" level shooters, anyway??....Some folks are just happy with a short Stabilizer, and a few fixed pins.....This next statement is JUST MY OWN OPINION.....Please dont anyone get Their undies in a wad, buuuut....The Open class equipped bows, (Scopes, Longrods, siderods, etc..etc..) have NOTHING to do with Bowhunting.....This type of equipment is for hard core Target Archery, and as such, some folks JUST DONT WANT TO SHOOT WITH THIS EQUIPMENT!....I've shot 3-D off and on since 1991.....Used to shoot waaaay longer shots, in ALL shooting classes ....Why is it that local Club 3-D shoots, and even the bigger 3-D shoots, always have the most shooters in Hunter class??...........Because this the equipment that most Archers are shooting with, and want to shoot with, and are perfectly satisfied with it.....If the IBO moves the shooting stake back to 40 or 45 yards, I'll still shoot Hunter class, because the equipment restrictions in Hunter class suit Me....The best shooters, with the best equipment, with the time and personal dedication to develop the skills that are needed to win will ALWAYS be the winners, regardless of the shooting class, or distance of the targets from the shooting stakes......Just shoot the equipment that YOU like, and be happy that Your able to shoot, and enjoy Yourselves!!......Take care....Harperman


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Harperman said:


> I was just wondering......."WHO" said that the IBO Hunter class was a class for beginners, or novice, or "Entry" level shooters, anyway??....Some folks are just happy with a short Stabilizer, and a few fixed pins.....This next statement is JUST MY OWN OPINION.....Please dont anyone get Their undies in a wad, buuuut....The Open class equipped bows, (Scopes, Longrods, siderods, etc..etc..) have NOTHING to do with Bowhunting.....This type of equipment is for hard core Target Archery, and as such, some folks JUST DONT WANT TO SHOOT WITH THIS EQUIPMENT!....I've shot 3-D off and on since 1991.....Used to shoot waaaay longer shots, in ALL shooting classes ....Why is it that local Club 3-D shoots, and even the bigger 3-D shoots, always have the most shooters in Hunter class??...........Because this the equipment that most Archers are shooting with, and want to shoot with, and are perfectly satisfied with it.....If the IBO moves the shooting stake back to 40 or 45 yards, I'll still shoot Hunter class, because the equipment restrictions in Hunter class suit Me....The best shooters, with the best equipment, with the time and personal dedication to develop the skills that are needed to win will ALWAYS be the winners, regardless of the shooting class, or distance of the targets from the shooting stakes......Just shoot the equipment that YOU like, and be happy that Your able to shoot, and enjoy Yourselves!!......Take care....Harperman


Its right in the rule book!!

C. Level Three—Entry Level Adult Classes—Trophy Awards-Monetary Awards (If Offered) At Random
1. Hunter Class (HC)


This is for AHC! Level 4 is what mbr and mbo are classified under.

D. Level Four—Advanced Amateur Classes—Eligible For Monetary Awards, Shooter Of The Year

The HC was created to get Bowhunters into the sport. After all the crazy scores and stuff started the IBO asked why people where shooting it and they replied there is no class fo bowhunter equipment so the AHC was born. The only difference in this class was the IBO added 5 yards because 35 is for beginers.
I coppied this info from the IBO rule book if you dont believe me look under shooting classes.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

bow-legged said:


> Its right in the rule book!!
> 
> C. Level Three—Entry Level Adult Classes—Trophy Awards-Monetary Awards (If Offered) At Random
> 1. Hunter Class (HC)
> ...


Bow- Legged, I understand that the IBO Regulations calls the Hunter class an Entry level class, what I'm getting at is that it really isnt an Entry level class, because unless an Archer wants to move into a longer yardage shooting class, with more "Target" oriented equipment, they dont have to move up, and it seems that quite a few , (if not the majority??) of folks dont.....I've been an IBO member off and on since 1993, and shot Recurves/Longbows until about 3 years ago.....In the 90's, at local Club shoots, (both around here, and down south toward You), even the Trad and Recurve Unaided stakes at shoots like Triangle, Greene Co., Hidden Valley, were set out to 35, and sometimes 40 yards, "Hunter" stakes were out to 40, and 45 yards, sometimes they set an Elk, Moose, or Buffalo (And that crazy Elephant!!) out at 50+ yards,....... I've shot a moose at 50 yards, from the stake, with my Recurve...FDL, Stillfingers, and a few others on this very thread will remember how it was then.....The IBO "Dummied-Down" the Hunter class, to draw more folks, and have less misses(lost arrows??)..........Which, in my opinion, isn't such a bad thing....If folks are shooting 30 Up in Hunter class, or a good score is 290, this depends on the course, and the skills of the shooters.....The Hunter class shooters will just have to shoot better, or move up a class, but if the folks that arent winning, or placing high in the Hunter class as it stands now, (that want the classes changed), how will changing anything on the setting of the course change Who is winning/placing??....The same shooters will be the Winners and Placers, they will just be shooting longer yardages.......I shot Your course, it was tough, and was an excellent course,... I shot badly, even for Me, (I had some equipment issues that I didnt have worked out before I came down there), but this was my fault I shot badly, not the Course, the Rules, or the yardage distance....I believe that the IBO might do some changing in the Hunter class, but, over-all, I believe that the same guys will still win......If all the targets at a Triple Crown shoot were set at 27 yards, folks would still shoot Blanks, 5's, 8's, 10's, and 11's....An archer would just have to shoot perfect to win, and 35+ Up to place in the top percentile......Take care...............Harperman


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Well said I see your point. Maybe the IBO should leave hc alone and make a fun class with no score cards for the beginer.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

bow-legged said:


> Well said I see your point. Maybe the IBO should leave hc alone and make a fun class with no score cards for the beginer.


Bow-Legged, I wanted to add that sometimes my posts seem to come off as blunt, or argumentative, at least that's what my buddies tell me!...L.O.L...Please dont read them as such, I dont get twisted up over a Message board, and try my best not to come off as a jerk ..I do see that there could be room for some changes in the current IBO regs. on Hunter class....I was just trying to make the point that the Archers that dedicate themselves to doing what it takes to win, will still be the winners, at least in the majority of cases...I met You, Your Lovely Wife, and cute Daughter a couple weeks ago, and the ONLY thing that I didnt like about Your 3-D range is how far it is for me to drive to get there..L.O.L....My buddy Johnny and I agreed that if You were closer, that We would try to shoot Your range at least 2-3 times a month....I was the short fat guy shooting the Gold Trykon XL.....Johnny shoots a camo/black AlphaBurner, and his little girl Delia was shooting great with her little Fuse bow.....We were part of the group from D & R Archery in Springfield.....Take care!.....Harperman


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

the women shoot farther than you guys in hc class!


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

shoot your bow and quit crying!


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Kstigall said:


> Do you know why the Pro's now only count 14's in the shoot down?
> Ask around and you'll hear a few reasons. But it was really because one good monster come back on Sunday by the man from Carolina. On Sunday the leaders didn't know the "man" was smoking 14's to make the shootoff and WIN. Bye-Bye 14's......
> 
> The "party" line is the 14's were taken out of play because it wasn't "fair" that the leaders didn't know he was going for it AND being successful.


ASA right?

That is ridiculous. It is like making a Jimmie Johnson rule in NASCAR.

If these guys can't beat Levi and want to do something about it......

GET BETTER!

If not....go shoot, have fun and donate to living a "life on the road."


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

Do you really think it would bring more people to this sport if people were bumped out of the hunter class? Seems to me ASA has such a rule and there numbers are the same as the IBO.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*Da!*



hoytxcutter said:


> Do you really think it would bring more people to this sport if people were bumped out of the hunter class? Seems to me ASA has such a rule and there numbers are the same as the IBO.


It should be a goal and proud achievement to get bumped out of a class! If you are not trying to win your class and move up then why are you going to the ASA ProAM's or IBO Triple Crown events?


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

I just migrated from the HF (Hunter Finger) class to the Traditional classes and can tell you that at the state / local level next to nobody shoots HF. If you want to place higher, then loose the release.

As far a HC being entry level, it’s not…I know guys that were shooting 300s on indoor spot league 10-15 years ago step back into it from the Open classes so they can feel really good about high scores. 

My concern is that hunting newbies have no where to go. IBO needs to think about attracting Joe hunter who is uncertain of his older equipment and doesn’t want to lose any of his 4 arrows. Hook them, then you have long term growth. Maybe you keep HC "as is" but put a random “door prize” drawing for those who shoot in the bottom 1/3 or from a closer set of stakes.

None of us want this to turn into kids T-ball or soccer (show up with a pulse and you get a ribbon, GOOD JOB!). Sorry…didn’t mean to get sarcastic, been to too many games!

My 2 cents worth…


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## psemadman (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm a firm believer that HC in the IBO is the most competitive class, especially at national shoots. I have been in HC for 4 years and at local shoots we have the most signed up in HC than any other class. Why is this ? Because its what most of the people shoot. Most hunters will not shoot at an animal much further than 35-40 yds, I think most of the Pros would say the same thing when they go hunting. I would say leave all the classes the way they are and just go shoot. If you want to be as good as the Triple Crown Winner in HC than go and practice and go show what you have. He worked hard, practiced hard and is a very nice guy to boot. There are plenty following in his footsteps and will be very tough to beat for years to come. HC class was put there for a reason and I don't see them changing it just because 1 person won all 3 legs and became the National Champion ! Its what we should all strive for and everyone shooting any class should be proud to have such a great shooter in their ranks ! Strive and practice to shoot as well as that !


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## Deer Slayer I (Feb 21, 2010)

psemadman said:


> I'm a firm believer that HC in the IBO is the most competitive class, especially at national shoots. I have been in HC for 4 years and at local shoots we have the most signed up in HC than any other class. Why is this ? Because its what most of the people shoot. Most hunters will not shoot at an animal much further than 35-40 yds, I think most of the Pros would say the same thing when they go hunting. I would say leave all the classes the way they are and just go shoot. If you want to be as good as the Triple Crown Winner in HC than go and practice and go show what you have. He worked hard, practiced hard and is a very nice guy to boot. There are plenty following in his footsteps and will be very tough to beat for years to come. HC class was put there for a reason and I don't see them changing it just because 1 person won all 3 legs and became the National Champion ! Its what we should all strive for and everyone shooting any class should be proud to have such a great shooter in their ranks ! Strive and practice to shoot as well as that !


your right hunter class was put there for a reason IT WAS NEVER MEANT to become a competive class it was meant to bring people into the ibo and let it grow not for people to drop down from other classe to win some hardware.


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

Deer Slayer I said:


> your right hunter class was put there for a reason IT WAS NEVER MEANT to become a competive class it was meant to bring people into the ibo and let it grow not for people to drop down from other classe to win some hardware.


It may not have been meant to be a competitive class but it is.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

HC does not even qualify for one of the classes that competes for shooter of the year..it has the most competitors becuase it was designed to be the easiest class equipment wise for anyone to start in. I love the hunter class great way to get people involved but if you are going to compete in national events there has to be a move up list for archers that practice hard and shoot great ! If you attend all the triple crown events and your total score for all 3 events finishes up then you will get awarded for excellent shooting and moved up. I think 38 shooters finished up or even this year! And also start a beginner class that anyone can compete in with any type of equipment and no scores will be turned in or posted! So if a shooter is interested they can come join and shoot for fun with friends and not worry about score and get a feel for compeitive 3D archery! Just some ideas to try to help things run a little smoother


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## milkman38 (Mar 5, 2007)

why do we even have a hc at nat events after reading a few of these posts. most guys willing to spend 300-400 bucks to travel and shoot 40 targets hc are going to take it serious and should post great scores.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Maybe the Hunter class is more about the equipment, than anything else??....Just food for thought??.....I personally like a simple set-up, and a bow with a rest, a sight, and a shorter, Hunting length stabilizer is what I prefer to shoot...It seems around here, that a Hunter class bow set-up is what most folks shoot, as well...I have a Longrod stabilizer, and a click type adjustable sight, and I had an even better Target sight, with a decent scope on it for Indoor League last winter..I dont really like to haul that type of rig through the woods...I said in another post on this thread, that if the IBO wants to move the Hunter class shooting stakes back to 40, or 45 yards, so be it....I have to shoot out to 40-45 yards at some of the Club shoots that I attend anyway, what's the big deal??...The IBO changed the ruling on the number of pins in a sight for Hunter class, and with the arrow speed of today's new Speedbows, it shouldn't be a big deal.....Like it or not, 3-D isn't just for Hunting practice anymore, if it ever was...It's a Target Archery sport, and as such, some folks are gonna take it very serious....And there will be top class shooters, and folks that just have a hard time shooting well, and everyone else somewhere in between these two extremes.....Regardless of what the Max yardage is in any shooting class, this is how it goes down......Take Care........Harperman


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

milkman38 said:


> why do we even have a hc at nat events after reading a few of these posts. most guys willing to spend 300-400 bucks to travel and shoot 40 targets hc are going to take it serious and should post great scores.


We travel to 3 of them each year, not because we expect to win, but to have fun. And we did. They are great courses with brand new targets. It just gets old shooting the same old local courses time and time again.

Really no different than going away for a golf weekend in the winter. Going to have fun. Not trying to win a dang thing. Oh yea, and I use my PGA illegal Cleveland wedge too.....would that be like taking a range finder and using a slider sight in HC:darkbeer:

I still wish they'd create a HC that goes back to 50yrds and allows slider sights. Western hunters shoot elk, muleys and pronghorn at 50+ all the time with hunting set ups. The day I can't hit a stationary foam deer at 50yrds in 2 minutes is the day I have no business taking a 30yrd shot on a live deer under stress. I might not smoke the 11, but I will certainly hit foam and likely at least an 8.


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## Fire Archer (Jul 23, 2008)

These threads are so funny.


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

Harperman said:


> I was just wondering......."WHO" said that the IBO Hunter class was a class for beginners, or novice, or "Entry" level shooters, anyway??....Some folks are just happy with a short Stabilizer, and a few fixed pins.....This next statement is JUST MY OWN OPINION.....Please dont anyone get Their undies in a wad, buuuut....The Open class equipped bows, (Scopes, Longrods, siderods, etc..etc..) have NOTHING to do with Bowhunting.....This type of equipment is for hard core Target Archery, and as such, some folks JUST DONT WANT TO SHOOT WITH THIS EQUIPMENT!....I've shot 3-D off and on since 1991.....Used to shoot waaaay longer shots, in ALL shooting classes ....Why is it that local Club 3-D shoots, and even the bigger 3-D shoots, always have the most shooters in Hunter class??...........Because this the equipment that most Archers are shooting with, and want to shoot with, and are perfectly satisfied with it.....If the IBO moves the shooting stake back to 40 or 45 yards, I'll still shoot Hunter class, because the equipment restrictions in Hunter class suit Me....The best shooters, with the best equipment, with the time and personal dedication to develop the skills that are needed to win will ALWAYS be the winners, regardless of the shooting class, or distance of the targets from the shooting stakes......Just shoot the equipment that YOU like, and be happy that Your able to shoot, and enjoy Yourselves!!......Take care....Harperman


It is entry level adult class by the IBO. Thats what it is called by them. Why is entry level or beginner a bad word? Wouldnt semi pro be considered a entry level or beginner pro class, and know one thinks semi pro is a bad word.


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

cenochs said:


> HC does not even qualify for one of the classes that competes for shooter of the year..it has the most competitors becuase it was designed to be the easiest class equipment wise for anyone to start in. I love the hunter class great way to get people involved but if you are going to compete in national events there has to be a move up list for archers that practice hard and shoot great ! If you attend all the triple crown events and your total score for all 3 events finishes up then you will get awarded for excellent shooting and moved up. I think 38 shooters finished up or even this year! And also start a beginner class that anyone can compete in with any type of equipment and no scores will be turned in or posted! So if a shooter is interested they can come join and shoot for fun with friends and not worry about score and get a feel for compeitive 3D archery! Just some ideas to try to help things run a little smoother


They have rules to move people up. Its in the IBO Rule book. You said that their needs to be a move up list for "archers that practice hard and shoot great." The guys that practice hard and shoot great deserve to win. At and IBO shoot you can choose not to have your score posted by not paying the full entry fee. Put the time in to get better, or go shoot and have fun. If you dont win at the local level dont expect to win at the national level. I shoot Open and there is a lot of guys that beat me but I dont get upset and say you need to move so I can get one place higher. I need to shoot the class that I can put the most time in to practice if I expect to do better. Whatever that class is. If I practice 6hrs a day 7 days a week and you dont practice until the weekend why do you feel like its wrong for me to shoot better than you?


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Harperman said:


> Bow-Legged, I wanted to add that sometimes my posts seem to come off as blunt, or argumentative, at least that's what my buddies tell me!...L.O.L...Please dont read them as such, I dont get twisted up over a Message board, and try my best not to come off as a jerk ..I do see that there could be room for some changes in the current IBO regs. on Hunter class....I was just trying to make the point that the Archers that dedicate themselves to doing what it takes to win, will still be the winners, at least in the majority of cases...I met You, Your Lovely Wife, and cute Daughter a couple weeks ago, and the ONLY thing that I didnt like about Your 3-D range is how far it is for me to drive to get there..L.O.L....My buddy Johnny and I agreed that if You were closer, that We would try to shoot Your range at least 2-3 times a month....I was the short fat guy shooting the Gold Trykon XL.....Johnny shoots a camo/black AlphaBurner, and his little girl Delia was shooting great with her little Fuse bow.....We were part of the group from D & R Archery in Springfield.....Take care!.....Harperman


Its all good!! I did not think you came off harsh and I also dont loose any sleep over things typed on Archerytalk. Its a good debate and something every one has been talking about for the last couple years. 

I do want to make it clear I love shooting HC and had more fun in that class than Im having in MBO. I think that will change when my scores go up.


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

Same old story year after year...guys complaining about the competition level and wanting to change the rules so they have a chance. 

3D especially at a NATIONAL level is a competative sport and there are LOTS of talented shooters in all classes not just HC. Whining, complaining and wanting to change rules isn't going to make anyone a better shooter. Both ASA and IBO have a move up in class policy that they enforce if a shooter is completely dominating a class.

If you feel that your "outclassed" put the time and effort in to get better and become more competative. The amount you get out of something is directly proportionate to what you put into it.


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

YRhinefield said:


> Same old story year after year...guys complaining about the competition level and wanting to change the rules so they have a chance.
> 
> 3D especially at a NATIONAL level is a competative sport and there are LOTS of talented shooters in all classes not just HC. Whining, complaining and wanting to change rules isn't going to make anyone a better shooter. Both ASA and IBO have a move up in class policy that they enforce if a shooter is completely dominating a class.
> 
> If you feel that your "outclassed" put the time and effort in to get better and become more competative. The amount you get out of something is directly proportionate to what you put into it.



Very well said and I totally agree.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I don't nor have I ever shot the HC ,*but the class is based on equipment,* *not ability*. If you are a healthy human being with no major disabilties, then you have the same opportunity and chance of posting those high scores as well...



To put it bluntly, if your getting your arse beat, its your fault. Stop whinning, crying, and put the time in to get better. Its that simple.


Not everyone can win first at every shoot. some one has to be first, and someone has to finish last...thats just the way it is.

I'll say it again, if your healthy, you have no right to complain about getting beat. What are you crybabys wanting, a handicapp? 

I can see it now MLB moving the mound closer for pitchers that can't throw 100 mph, moving in the fence to 180 feet for those who hit less than 2 career homeruns.... Nascar, removing 2-3 spark plug wires from the top drivers cars, so they can't go as fast....NBA lowering the rim to 6 feet so short people can dunk too!

Of all the sports out there, it* is my opinion that archery is the best sport Why? It has *has the most level playing field. You don't have to be 7 foot tall, bench 55olb, or run a 4.2 40 to have a chance to be succesful...

you just gotta invest your time and practice. this game is more between your ears than your physical ability.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

Amen, J Whittington!


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

J Whittington said:


> I don't nor have I ever shot the HC ,*but the class is based on equipment,* *not ability*. If you are a healthy human being with no major disabilties, then you have the same opportunity and chance of posting those high scores as well...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Agree mostly but ability is also a factor.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

ability is a factor? 

Would you care to elaborate on this?

I wanted to play college football, but I wasn't big enough, nor fast enough, but I didnt whine to the NCAA complaining its not fair.

also, How do you measure archery abiltiy? Whiners think its scores. Instead of investing their time and effort: which is how scores get better/ improve. They are doing something else. *Hey MEAT HEADS* that is arguing ability or lack there off. 

Surly you guys don't think that the TOP SHOOTERS in any class was born into this world, fresh out of the womb with instant archery abiltiy. Think of the song BAD TO THE BONE. Maybe when jeff, levi, reo, Dee, Ulmer, Chappel, Wise, Ragsdale, Ethridge, Griv, Nathan, Eric, (not Jerry) were born, Bad to the Boone was playing in the nursery.....
Those guys are winners/champions becasue they paid their dues by practicing, paying a coach, buying targets, sacrificing...etc....HELLO, THEY WEREN'T BORN WITH IT...THEY EARNED IT.

Just like my grades in college and the grades of the students that I teach *There needs to be some effort...:wink:*

Now lets go a little deeper for those that think ole Jerry is being a hard nosed, mean and cruel.

I voluntarily moved to open pro class this year. I paid all my entry fees, travel expenses, with the exception of Extreme stablilzers and Goldtip, I also pay for my equipment. Guess how much money I have won......this much* 0000* Levi, Jeff, Hammer and others have made all the money, but I'm not complaining /crying, asking for the rules to be changed. Why? Its simple, I have no major disabilities. If I want to perform better, I have to put more time in. Its that simple. I wanted to shoot pro, not to win $, If/when I do thats fine. But I moved up because I wanted to improve my abiltiy, and shot with/against the best in the world. The worst thing that can happen is I get beat, and lose my $250.00 entry fee...Gues what? Thats exactly what has happend... So what. I'll try again at the next shoot...there are worse things in life than not winning an archery tournament, regardless of what class you compete in.

sorry for the tanget...I teach/ have taught Exceptional Children with the following issues. Autism, Asbergers, confined to wheel chairs, Low IQ's, severe ADD/ADDHD. I don't hear them complain. They've taught me many valuable things.

My advice: stop your _itching, crying, whinning, and feeling sorry for yourselves. YOU want to win, then prove it.
BE thankful for what you can do! IM certain a lot of folks would love to trade places with ya.


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## Stillfingers (May 6, 2008)

harperman said:


> bow- legged, i understand that the ibo regulations calls the hunter class an entry level class, what i'm getting at is that it really isnt an entry level class, because unless an archer wants to move into a longer yardage shooting class, with more "target" oriented equipment, they dont have to move up, and it seems that quite a few , (if not the majority??) of folks dont.....i've been an ibo member off and on since 1993, and shot recurves/longbows until about 3 years ago.....in the 90's, at local club shoots, (both around here, and down south toward you), even the trad and recurve unaided stakes at shoots like triangle, greene co., hidden valley, were set out to 35, and sometimes 40 yards, "hunter" stakes were out to 40, and 45 yards, sometimes they set an elk, moose, or buffalo (and that crazy elephant!!) out at 50+ yards,....... I've shot a moose at 50 yards, from the stake, with my recurve...fdl, stillfingers, and a few others on this very thread will remember how it was then.....the ibo "dummied-down" the hunter class, to draw more folks, and have less misses(lost arrows??)..........which, in my opinion, isn't such a bad thing....if folks are shooting 30 up in hunter class, or a good score is 290, this depends on the course, and the skills of the shooters.....the hunter class shooters will just have to shoot better, or move up a class, but if the folks that arent winning, or placing high in the hunter class as it stands now, (that want the classes changed), how will changing anything on the setting of the course change who is winning/placing??....the same shooters will be the winners and placers, they will just be shooting longer yardages.......i shot your course, it was tough, and was an excellent course,... I shot badly, even for me, (i had some equipment issues that i didnt have worked out before i came down there), but this was my fault i shot badly, not the course, the rules, or the yardage distance....i believe that the ibo might do some changing in the hunter class, but, over-all, i believe that the same guys will still win......if all the targets at a triple crown shoot were set at 27 yards, folks would still shoot blanks, 5's, 8's, 10's, and 11's....an archer would just have to shoot perfect to win, and 35+ up to place in the top percentile......take care...............harperman


I remember Jim, 50 yards with Hunter Class setups...man was that fun!

C'mon guys, lets all practice a little more and go out and have some fun.

~SF~


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

psemadman said:


> I'm a firm believer that HC in the IBO is the most competitive class, especially at national shoots. I have been in HC for 4 years and at local shoots we have the most signed up in HC than any other class. Why is this ? Because its what most of the people shoot. Most hunters will not shoot at an animal much further than 35-40 yds, I think most of the Pros would say the same thing when they go hunting. I would say leave all the classes the way they are and just go shoot. If you want to be as good as the Triple Crown Winner in HC than go and practice and go show what you have. He worked hard, practiced hard and is a very nice guy to boot. There are plenty following in his footsteps and will be very tough to beat for years to come. HC class was put there for a reason and I don't see them changing it just because 1 person won all 3 legs and became the National Champion ! Its what we should all strive for and everyone shooting any class should be proud to have such a great shooter in their ranks ! Strive and practice to shoot as well as that !


Very well said.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Its a national, (big event) torunament...that usually means that most of the best shooters in the 3-D nation will be there.:wink:


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## xringbob (Oct 30, 2008)

As we say here in PA if you dont like your score get out and practice and if you still dont like your score give it up. I hope I can make to worlds this year I will be in Breedlove shooting group


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## 2000danger (Jan 25, 2009)

Top 3 shooters at the world this year in HC were 1. Michael Breedlove 2. Matt Baringer 3. Bob Lawson Jr. None of these shooters have been involved in the IBO for more than 3 years. Michael shot 1 shoot in '08 and Two complete ibo seasons. Bob has only shot the world twice and none of the nationals. I myself (Matt) Just started last year as well. So if this class is for "beginners" than so be it. I'd say we are beginners, just darn good ones. Put your time into shooting instead of typing and watch your scores go up..


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

2000danger said:


> Top 3 shooters at the world this year in HC were 1. Michael Breedlove 2. Matt Baringer 3. Bob Lawson Jr. None of these shooters have been involved in the IBO for more than 3 years. Michael shot 1 shoot in '08 and Two complete ibo seasons. Bob has only shot the world twice and none of the nationals. I myself (Matt) Just started last year as well. So if this class is for "beginners" than so be it. I'd say we are beginners, just darn good ones. Put your time into shooting instead of typing and watch your scores go up..



I totally agree.


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## xringbob (Oct 30, 2008)

2000danger said:


> Top 3 shooters at the world this year in HC were 1. Michael Breedlove 2. Matt Baringer 3. Bob Lawson Jr. None of these shooters have been involved in the IBO for more than 3 years. Michael shot 1 shoot in '08 and Two complete ibo seasons. Bob has only shot the world twice and none of the nationals. I myself (Matt) Just started last year as well. So if this class is for "beginners" than so be it. I'd say we are beginners, just darn good ones. Put your time into shooting instead of typing and watch your scores go up..


Well said there Matt it was nice shooting with you guys in the final and it came down to the last target for me and you good shooting :darkbeer::darkbeer:


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## jereast12 (Sep 3, 2007)

perfectly said..... and for all the guys on here that say its a sissy class step down to the HC and see how you do .... you other guys may shoot farther yardage but that just gives you more of a margin to mess up in the HC you shoot a 5 your done .... and i love it. i was 1 of 15 ppl out of 197 shooters that shot up the first day that right there already is enough to make a shooter in the HC feel like a world champion..... if all the ppl that talk down on the HC 90% of you would step to our class and get your butts handed to you.... (true story) GREAT JOB MBLOVE, MB, BL


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## proXarchery (Apr 9, 2004)

i dont think you would like all those guys shooting hc or you will have hundreds of scores over par:wink:. listen most guys step up to take the challenge.like it was said earlier its not all about winning but the challenge of trying to win at the highest level you can compete at.


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## NoChance44 (Dec 29, 2009)

*gotta give*

we see these posts over and over again. I some one shoots a 430 they should move up. if we get all them to move up then if you shoot a 420 you should move up. Enjoy the sport practice and get better.. Just cause someone kicks butt they shouldn't be in that class. The last place finisher could argue that for everyone above them. For those that constantly preach move up and challenge yourself, you should be shooting PMR with a recurve. We can't all be the best...I'm living proof of that(LOL) but I continue to try and learn and improve. Keep it fun and do your best.


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## Lefteye19 (Aug 1, 2005)

*Hmmmm*

Its called competition for a reason....if you want to do your best then you set your bow up within the rules that the IBO sets forth.....then you practice, practice, and practice more. These threads make me laugh!!!


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## 2000danger (Jan 25, 2009)

xringbob said:


> Well said there Matt it was nice shooting with you guys in the final and it came down to the last target for me and you good shooting :darkbeer::darkbeer:


I set out on Saturday with intention to take 2nd place but to be honest after target 6 I can honestly say my focus was then on 1st. There was just no catching him.


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## caskins269 (Jul 31, 2008)

Lets sum this up, bring your best and get into the hunter class for the triple crown money shoots and see how you perform. It is open to anyone and even pros. Put pins on, get rid of scopes. your visabillity decreases and now you have to rely on pins.... They get starbursting in the light, can't see them in the dark.


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## mossyoak79 (Nov 18, 2008)

xringbob said:


> Well said here in Pa and Jersey hc is stacked with great shooters its definitely no walk in the park with these guys


I agree bob, this was my first year shooting IBO/3d all together and I really thought the competition was steep, but isnt that the nature of the beast? I attended worlds and ended up 13th I really can't complain. the top 50 in this class are top notch archers. I have a lot to learn I guess


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