# Spin Wing choice



## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

Recent packaging removed the comments about different colours being different stiffness, and in fact I know several people who have used them interchangeably or even mixed without adverse results. It seems it's more a decoration than stiffness rating nowadays.

As for offset, the packaging often recommends a 1 degree offset, if I recall correctly. But most people I know fletch them pretty much straight; the vane itself seems to already have some curve that acts as offset, anyway. Worst case, fletch six in each way and test. It's not like you're not going to have to refletch at some point, anyways, so you might as well test things out.


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Crispin Duenas did a nice presentation on world archery:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm9k9Hsd4yo

This and the instructions on the packaging should be enough.
And: take the colour you like most. Forget the stiffness thing. You don't need a Beiter Tri Liner. Normal fletching jig with 0° offset is ok for marking lines.
Ah, and stay with *no* offset.


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

I've always wondered how does anyone ensure a consistent offset angle. The single digit angles recommendations are, imo, impossible to reliably measure out. A slight variance in pressure and application angle of the marker when drawing the lines would be enough for a few degrees variance in the line drawn. Therefore I'm in the "best effort, keep it straight" camp.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

0 is a single digit.

Give it pitch. I tested it to approximately 5 deg with no noticeable issues. 

If you don't give it a pitch, it may deflect the wrong way.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

theminoritydude said:


> 0 is a single digit.
> 
> Give it pitch. I tested it to approximately 5 deg with no noticeable issues.
> 
> If you don't give it a pitch, it may deflect the wrong way.


Look a little closer. Spin wings have a built-in pitch.

Having said that, with all the better options on the market today, I'm not sure why anyone would choose spin wings unless they just enjoy constant maintenance and the occasional torn vane that causes your arrow to flutter into the 4 ring.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Look a little closer. Spin wings have a built-in pitch.
> 
> Having said that, with all the better options on the market today, I'm not sure why anyone would choose spin wings unless they just enjoy constant maintenance and the occasional torn vane that causes your arrow to flutter into the 4 ring.


I did. That's only if it was taped to flex in a certain manner. Considering how differently everyone tapes it, that pitch may or may not manifest. The only sure way is to have a pitch using the edge of the vane. 

Spin type vanes work because they are highly efficient drag devices when you need the drag, and that drag tapers off when it gets into the predetermined spin. It works because it unfurls. It unfurls because it is soft enough to do that.


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

limbwalker said:


> theminoritydude said:
> 
> 
> > 0 is a single digit.
> ...


I am not into fletching, so I dont really know which brands to choose. Do you have any recommendations? I can find gas pro locally too.


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

limbwalker said:


> Having said that, with all the better options on the market today, I'm not sure why anyone would choose spin wings unless they just enjoy constant maintenance and the occasional torn vane that causes your arrow to flutter into the 4 ring.


Haha, thats a funny comment when you see year by year which vanes get medals.... :thumbs_up
And no, i don't shoot spinwings (anymore), but thats only because we have a nice european manufacturer who makes dark green xs wings....


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Skropi said:


> I am not into fletching, so I dont really know which brands to choose. Do you have any recommendations? I can find gas pro locally too.



Nothing is wrong when you start with the "gold standard" of mylar vanes. And normally the first set of mylar vanes have to be replaced soon - not by bad performance but by your learning curve on assembling them ;-)


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Spin Wings are the preferred vane by the Koreans. I think that is telling. Does it mean that the other vanes do not work? No. But it does suggest that top archers who have done a lot of testing find the Spin Wings still the superior vane to use. Not sure why, other than most other vanes are just copy cats but without the testing that went into developing the Spin Wing vane. The pitch and height is different with the other vanes and works for some but not all. I am not suggesting that the other vanes will not work but to say that the Spin Wing vane shouldn't be used is just an opinion and not a valid recommendation since so many top archers stick with the vane. The Spin Wing vane is fragile but it must be worth it if the top archers use it (Koreans). They do not get sponsored by any archery company so their loyalties are bound by winning and nothing else. Most other top archers around the world are sponsored and some people on AT are sponsored so they will plug their sponsors product. Keep that in mind when deciding what to do. I am not sponsored by Spin Wing but do have a high regard for the man who invented it since he made ground breaking advancements for recurve archery. But again, if the vanes did not work, they would not be used by the best. 

As for pitch. Yes, putting tape on the ends changing this. That is why I do not use tape. I only used it a few times and felt I lost some consistency, so I quit using it. However, if you do not use it, check the vanes every end. I still do check the vanes every end to this day, to make sure the vane is securely on the shaft. 

As for angle. As have been mentioned, the lines made on the shaft is enough angle to play with. Start with a straight, then move them off just a little and see how they perform. It takes time to test, like with anything else, you have to find out over a few days of testing the same thing to see if it is not you on a good day or a bad day. However, you do have to practice, so why not test items (one at a time) that picks your curiosity. 

Vane colors. Yes, there is a difference but probably not enough for 99% of the archers can tell a difference. The only reason I chose white is because it was the softest and allowed me to get away with clearance issues, which I have had all my life. I performed better with the whites. However, Vic Wunderle used the stiffest black vanes and loved them. It is a matter of preference and performance that gives the top archer the reason that they use a specific vane and a specific color and a specific size. 

Brady loves the Spider Vanes. These vanes are a higher profile and will work well for those who do not have a clearance issue. If you do not have clearance issues then something like a Spider Vane (higher profile) can work for you.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Captain Kirk said:


> Haha, thats a funny comment when you see year by year which vanes get medals.... :thumbs_up
> And no, i don't shoot spinwings (anymore), but thats only because we have a nice european manufacturer who makes dark green xs wings....


We'll see how much longer that holds true. The top archers could use any one of about 10 different vanes, and still win. Koreans are very slow to change. They use the same things over and over again as much because of culture as anything. I often wonder how much "testing" they actually do as opposed to just shooting what they are told to shoot. When I was in Athens, they were the only ones still using fast flight strings. So much of this sport is technique and mindset. The Koreans know that things like vane choices are virtually indistinguishable in the long run. And if you're a full-time archer who has plenty of time to do fletching maintenance, they why not shoot spin wings.

To me, the maintenance of spin wings isn't worth it. I've also tested spin wings vs. other fletchings and apparently 330 isn't the level where differences show up. At least, they didn't for me. The highest outdoor scores I shot were with Elivanes, not spin wings. 

Vic used white spin wings of two different lengths at the '04 trials and since. I am not trying to argue with anyone but I've shot with Vic a LOT and I don't ever remember seeing him shoot black spin wings. Butch shot blue spin wings, and some black ones IIRC, but I never recall shooting with Vic and him having anything other than white, of various lengths. In '12, his white spin wings were quite long. Longer than anyone else's vanes on the field. Recently, he's been more interested in other vanes. I spoke to him about this just yesterday in fact, after showing him this scorecard from last night's club practice. Those Elivane S3's make me look a lot better than I am these days. I pulled spin wings off those same arrows Sunday morning because they were not shooting well at all, and this was my first scoring round with them, after three sighter arrows.


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Why should the Koreans change? And if, why fast? :set1_thinking:

To topic: 
my worst experience in vanes and maintenance were the AAE wavs. Simply because if one ripped or wrinkled and had to be replaced it was a nightmare on skinny shafts to get the superglue off. Same with mylar type vanes goes in a few minutes and you have a new vane on. Never had major problems with spin wings, but the new brands are clever, and i like the precut finishing tape on the xs wings. And did i tell already they have dark green as colour....?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Captain Kirk said:


> Why should the Koreans change? And if, why fast? :set1_thinking:
> 
> To topic:
> my worst experience in vanes and maintenance were the AAE wavs. Simply because if one ripped or wrinkled and had to be replaced it was a nightmare on skinny shafts to get the superglue off. Same with mylar type vanes goes in a few minutes and you have a new vane on. Never had major problems with spin wings, but the new brands are clever, and i like the precut finishing tape on the xs wings. And did i tell already they have dark green as colour....?


Yea, the Wav's were a nightmare. I think they got better, but I was eager to try them when they first came out because I had used Flex-fletch in '04 with good success, and was looking for a low maintenance, lightweight replacement. I even put them on my wife and daughter's arrows. They didn't last long on mine or my daughter's arrows before they got replaced with Elivanes. My wife still has them on hers but she rarely shoots.

I haven't tried spider vanes, but the Elivanes are so durable that I've not needed to try anything else. Admittedly, I rarely ever shoot (and just took 2 years off) but the arrows I shot in 2012 still look and work great. I haven't had to repair a vane yet.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Well, there you have it. I do recall that Vic and I talked over the early years BJ (before John) and we discussed the reasons of the black vane versus the white. Maybe he opened up and tried them. Also we talked extensively about why a longer vane might work better than a shorter one due to speed of the arrow. Most of the testing for the 1 3/4" (very light drag) was for the ACE at that time. The x10 came out later and most just moved over to the x10 with the same fletchings. I am happy to read that Vic was trying different vane lengths and had moved over to the white color. 

John, I would show you my 342 with my white spin wings at 70 meters, but I don't think it really settles anything. Mine was during the World Championships. I used Myro Vanes when I shoot the first 345 at 50 meters which I still think are some of the best vanes ever. They were one of the original mylar vane that was straight and not curled which was developed by Shig Honda. I shot a 345 again with white spin wings at the Pan American Games some years later. Again, it doesn't really matter except that I was satisfied with the performance with the vanes. I have tried at least 5 different spin type vanes over the past few years and always end up using the original Spin Wings. Keeping favoritism out is hard but using science and staying objective a person gets a good education of what works and what does not. 

You are probably right though about other products moving in. After all, archers follow the leaders.


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

Skropi said:


> I am not into fletching, so I dont really know which brands to choose. Do you have any recommendations? I can find gas pro locally too.


Gas Pros work just fine, durable, and easy to install.


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

Skropi said:


> I am not into fletching, so I dont really know which brands to choose. Do you have any recommendations? I can find gas pro locally too.


Gas Pros work just fine, durable, and easy to install.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Rick, my point in posting that card was that as crappy as I'm shooting right now (and as out of shape as I am after taking 2 years off) it sure wasn't the Elivanes that hurt me. 

You are and always will be a great spokesperson for spin wings. The Koreans speak for spin wings with their success. No question they work. Some of us just prefer not to hassle with the maintenance especially since we've found things that work as good or better for us. It's good to have choices!

Black46 - I put a set of checkered Gas Pro's on my daughter's first set of carbon outdoor arrows, and she loved those! They were great for her little 1500 spine CX Medallions too. It was fun to watch those little arrows spin downrange.


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

Thank you all for your suggestions and the nice conversation going on guys!
To be frank, I am in no position to judge the difference among vanes. For me to hold gold at 18m, I generally need around 30-40 shots, to find all the errors in my form and correct them... In 70m I would struggle to not miss, most probably lol. However, I thoroughly enjoy the sport, as I get to practice with my son, when he is visiting me (he lives with his mother, abroad), and vanes arent cheap, hence the questions.
Rest assured that I am fully aware, and definitely believe, that practice is the single most important thing, and not the equipment.


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## tassie_devil (Aug 15, 2018)

As usual gentlemen, thank you fo the helpful replies as it helps the broader audience not just the original poster. Worth it even managing the depression caused by knowing that some folks can take two years off and still shoot scores that I can only dream of....


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

A recent observation regarding what the Koreans use: I noticed that in the recent vegas shoot, high level shooters like Oh and Ku are using some sort of transparent colored vane. I think a lot of the ladies are using it too. Is this the KSL vanes? Anybody got the down low on why there's so many koreans shooting this new vane all of a sudden?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

waxyjaywalker said:


> A recent observation regarding what the Koreans use: I noticed that in the recent vegas shoot, high level shooters like Oh and Ku are using some sort of transparent colored vane. I think a lot of the ladies are using it too. Is this the KSL vanes? Anybody got the down low on why there's so many koreans shooting this new vane all of a sudden?


I don't have an answer for you but I wonder if they were shooting those for indoor only?


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## liquidator4711 (Aug 4, 2016)

According to a club mate attending a number of the Koreans where indeed shooting kk archery ksl jet6 canes at Vegas - and they are indeed semi-transparent in various colors.


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## liquidator4711 (Aug 4, 2016)

It will be interesting to see if they follow them outdoors - incidentally this vane, although expensive, is very easy to mount compared to original spinnies as the are stiffer and have a nice curved base - as well as individual strips of tape - even nicer is their new triple-tape solution that allows for applying them without marking the shaft with lines - clever thing. Check kk website for details. They are also significantly more durable, almost like a plastic cane. They do cost a lot though and I’m sure they don’t make any significant different in score, but they are convenient and I do like them.


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

liquidator4711 said:


> It will be interesting to see if they follow them outdoors - incidentally this vane, although expensive, is very easy to mount compared to original spinnies as the are stiffer and have a nice curved base - as well as individual strips of tape - even nicer is their new triple-tape solution that allows for applying them without marking the shaft with lines - clever thing. Check kk website for details. They are also significantly more durable, almost like a plastic cane. They do cost a lot though and I’m sure they don’t make any significant different in score, but they are convenient and I do like them.


They do take a good beating. I tried them this indoor season and I've had them sheared off from close groups only to just reattach them with new tape later. I haven't actually torn any of them and I like how they are a lower profile than the Brady vanes I was previously using. I stopped using the shrink wrap because they just get annoying and I used my usually pin striping tape instead.


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## liquidator4711 (Aug 4, 2016)

Yeah- the shrink tubing only fits really thin shafts too. The newer SV (super velocity) variant actually comes with tape instead (looking as a ruler so you can take the same amount, a little OCD 😉


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Oh Jin Hyek and Meter Gazoz are sponsored by KK Vanes.

If you inspect the top 10 men of last year world cup you will find almost every relevant vane company.
Spin Wings, Spider Vanes, XS Wings, KSL Vanes 
Elivanes? (is Nespoli shooting these? looks like he is using spinwings now), GasPro should be out of the actual top ten but sure some pros shooting with these.
So no actual mylar vane type seems to be clearly inferior to another.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Black46 said:


> Gas Pros work just fine, durable, and easy to install.


Another vote for Gas Pros. I've shot tested most of the curled mylar vane brands, and settled on Gas Pro - same performance as Spin Wings or Eli, and better aesthetics :wink:


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## PBurgam (Jan 19, 2009)

As you consider your choice of vanes, be sure you understand the manufacturer's ability to create a consistent product from color to color and package to package.


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

Thanks for all the replies guys. I went with spin wings, and of course I chose the most accurate colour..... yellow! 
If they dont prove durable enough, I will probably try spider wings or gas pro next. My local shop doesn't carry 1.8" gas pro though, only 2". Would that be a problem?


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## Alik (Apr 3, 2019)

I'm running a test between XS and spiders, right now. If anyone is interested, I can post the result in a couple of weeks or so.


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## BlasterMcMassiv (Aug 20, 2018)

Spins are cool


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

Skropi said:


> If they dont prove durable enough, I will probably try spider wings or gas pro next. My local shop doesn't carry 1.8" gas pro though, only 2". Would that be a problem?


Since you live in Europe - XS Wings are super easy to order direct from the producer in Slovenia - including nice support via facebook pm.


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

At last I understood why you all say that Spin Wings are.....high maintenance.....
I will have to look to find some elivanes. 
Is there an elivane model that is a good compromise for indoors and outdoors?


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

Captain Kirk said:


> Skropi said:
> 
> 
> > If they dont prove durable enough, I will probably try spider wings or gas pro next. My local shop doesn't carry 1.8" gas pro though, only 2". Would that be a problem?
> ...


Could you tell me his name so I can find him? (I can speak his native language somewhat!)


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

It's the Sitar family. Don't know how the rules are here on AT with links, but it's easy to google xs wings or search on facebook for the xs-wings site. Just send them a message on facebook with your queries.
I shoot the 50mm "low" which are pretty common with oly recurve.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Skropi said:


> At last I understood why you all say that Spin Wings are.....high maintenance.....
> I will have to look to find some elivanes.
> Is there an elivane model that is a good compromise for indoors and outdoors?


I have had great luck with the S3's for both indoors and outdoors.


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## slhsxcmy (Sep 26, 2018)

Same here. Once I set up the alignment Elivanes are very durable.


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

limbwalker said:


> Skropi said:
> 
> 
> > At last I understood why you all say that Spin Wings are.....high maintenance.....
> ...


I found a good deal on Elivanes. In fact, it is more than good, so I will order a package. 
From what I've read from your older posts, you fletch the S3's straight?


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

Thankfully I was fast enough to get the last package of S3's on offer, 15 euros including postage! Unfortunately, the only available colour was transparent purple, but its the favourite colour of my son, so all is well in the world.


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

I am so happy to become a member of the Elivane family! I hope I will be able to find yellow ones in the future. Yellow vanes with red nocks, is just.....the pinacle of aesthetics!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The purple ones show up pretty well. I use them on my Nano Pro's. 

I fletch mine with a little offset. Probably no more than 3mm from back to front of the vane. Using the (straight) lines on my Nano Pro's, I apply the tape on one side of the line and cross it over to the other side of the line on the other end, if that makes sense.


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

limbwalker said:


> The purple ones show up pretty well. I use them on my Nano Pro's.
> 
> I fletch mine with a little offset. Probably no more than 3mm from back to front of the vane. Using the (straight) lines on my Nano Pro's, I apply the tape on one side of the line and cross it over to the other side of the line on the other end, if that makes sense.


I've read so much the older posts about Elivanes, that when you said "3° offset", I almost knew that it would probably be one side of the line to the other! 
Can't wait to try them, as I really hate fletching and not shooting.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

limbwalker said:


> The purple ones show up pretty well. I use them on my Nano Pro's.
> 
> I fletch mine with a little offset. Probably no more than 3mm from back to front of the vane. Using the (straight) lines on my Nano Pro's, I apply the tape on one side of the line and cross it over to the other side of the line on the other end, if that makes sense.


Just trying to get this straight in my brain for a right handed archer. Looking down with the arrow point to the left/nock to the right - you stick the tape down such that you can see the printed line on the left and can't see it on the right end. Correct or if easier, could you please post a picture? Thanks!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

If you're holding the arrow with the nock toward you and the point away from you, the tape would start on the left side of the line and finish on the right side of the line, with each end of the tape touching the line.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Skropi said:


> Heya guys. First question is if the white/softer spin wing is the preferred one, and second is if they are to be fletched straight or with an offset. I am going to shoot them at 70m.
> I know that everything "depends", just looking for general guidelines here.


White is probably the most common color. But it is the most common probably because its white and that goes with everyones color combo of quiver, bow etc.

You can see red, black or yellow spin wings still in use on the international circuit. It use to be the different colors were different thicknesses. Then some years later i heard the vanes were all the same thickness and color did not matter. 

Dont shoot the elite spin wings. Those make too much spin and your arrow will parachute at longer distances.

I have found that spin wings like a straight fletch and Eli Vanes like an offset.

I switched from spin wings to eli vanes years ago. Grouped better for me. But thats me. Your results may be different. I shoot the P3 vanes and have shot the revolution vanes indoor.



Chris


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## ceratops (May 17, 2017)

limbwalker said:


> If you're holding the arrow with the nock toward you and the point away from you, the tape would start on the left side of the line and finish on the right side of the line, with each end of the tape touching the line.


Thanks, perfectly clear, and brief (I'm not sure why so many versions of this instruction are so darn confusing)! Posting to express appreciation... and to make sure I can find this thread again next time I need this information.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

ceratops said:


> Thanks, perfectly clear, and brief (I'm not sure why so many versions of this instruction are so darn confusing)! Posting to express appreciation... and to make sure I can find this thread again next time I need this information.


With eli vanes, i shoot more of an offset.

I put the rear vane on the nock end of the line and the front vane on the top of the next line. And repeat around. 

Works great for me.

Chris


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## DBrunger (Jan 20, 2015)

I have a question for all of you who are using one form or another of the "tape on" style vanes. Whether it is Spin wings Eli Spyder etc. What fixture are you using to mark your vane spacing? The Spigarelli Spiga marker? Beiter Tri Liner? Are there any advantages to one over another? 

Thanks,
Dave


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## Captain Kirk (Sep 11, 2016)

I use my fletching jig with straight clamp. Used also the Beiter tri liner one time form a friend.
If you have no jig and don't need it because you are only shooting oly recurve, i would buy the tri liner. 
Both work, but the Beiter is nice to work with...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Captain Kirk said:


> I use my fletching jig with straight clamp. Used also the Beiter tri liner one time form a friend.
> If you have no jig and don't need it because you are only shooting oly recurve, i would buy the tri liner.
> Both work, but the Beiter is nice to work with...


Ditto on that advice for arrows that aren't already marked. One nice feature of CX SST's and Nano Pros is that they come pre-marked with fletching lines. These days, I don't even really need those as I've fletched enough now to know what the spacing should look like.


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

I've been using Beiter Tri-Liner for several years now because I bought it used at a good price. Before that I used the Bitzenberger with a 6" stainless machinist scale inserted where the vane would go. This gave me better clearance and visibility for the Sharpie marker or Paint pen. - John


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## DBrunger (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks for the responses! 

I have a Grayling fletching jig... I guess I could use that set up straight or just slightly offset. I will try lining a few arrows and see how it goes. Then if its a pain, I can grab a "liner"...


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## Rod Heidemann (Apr 30, 2018)

I was lucky enough to win a Spiga marker from Spigarelli. It works great also.


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## wheelistadlock4 (May 22, 2014)

I tried the spin wings, but I was just too rough on them. I switched to the kk jet 6 vanes and have really enjoyed the shrink wrap. To me, it is very consistent and easy. You do have to watch it when applying the heat to shrink them, that you don't melt the vane (how do I know this? lol). I have been using my bitz to apply consistent attachment of the vanes. Works great. I love not using glue. The vanes are quite durable, and I am really rough on them. They are expensive though. As a person that can't get to the range more than once a week it's difficult to develop and hold proper shooting form that mitigates arrow and fletch damage. I'm spending more than I should on the jet6's, but they last a lot better than the spin wings I started the experiment with.


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