# Talk to me about arrows



## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Sorry, forgot to say "please" :wink:


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

ok, as you know, i dont follow the herd on a lot of things archery, im more of a practical thinker. so, bear with me while i give my cent and a third.

the thinner arrows are better suited in those events becuase of their side profiles. kinda like a bus and a small, low sitting car in the wind on the highway getting hit with a sidewind.

setting up the field arrows, you'll want a bit heavier tip up front. not to spine out but to keep the arrow flying where you want it. in 3d, you want flat out speed, so you go with the lightest setup you can. in field and fita, speed is kinda important but not AS important. light is good, but too light will just float away. its a tad bit of a delicate game but not impossible. the aspect of speed in the field and fita games is that the less time in the air, the less chance of wind drift. but, you have speed limits(nfaa) and peak draw weight limits(fita) you must abide by. with the fita games, the weight limit doesnt have a fudge factor.......it is or it isnt.

arrows about the size of easton acc 3-60's is plenty good. arrows about the size of the standard beman ics is ok, but a tad an the fat side. the micro arrows like the cx nanos and some of the easton ace's are for the hardcore fita gang.....im not even there, even in my dreams. not worth the cost for me.

i have for my outdoor arrows, the phantoms marketed by larry wise. great arrows for the price, but in very short supply. they're being discontinued. the supplier isnt making them anymore. bummer, they were really nice arrows.

nocks, pin nocks seem to be all the rage right now. i dont follow that herd either. i prefer the g-nocks and bushings. have a pin get bent just a tiny bit just once. you'll notice it at the longer distances. easton g-nocks and their relatives are pretty easy to find at a shoot. pin nocks are a little more rare. both bushings protect the end of the shaft, but like i said before, get that pin pushed a little off center and you'll be wonderin what the hell's goin on. for me, pin nocks leave too much room for error.

i like to keep my stuff on the practical and simple side. easier to fix when broke and easier to find replacements when needed. setting your stuff up to be unique and one of a kind is cool to look at, but when it breaks, have fun findin parts.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks Monkey,
Will need a little time to digest, but looks like some very useful info.

I had thought about the Beman ICS, but, like you considered them a bit "thick" and if I'm going thick I'd stick with the Beman 9.3. Will take a look at the Easton you mentioned.

Thanks again
Lee


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## cubsfan (Aug 15, 2006)

Right now I am using Easton x10 550's at 48lbs and 27.72" dl. I picked some up in the classifieds to see if they were worth the money. For me, I would say yes since I just purchased a new dozen Easton x10 Protours. 
Yes, they do GREAT in the wind. The reason I use them now is because I live in Arizona where we shoot in the flat desert. There is nothing to block the wind. So IMO, shaft selection is very important. 

We had our state field shoot a few weeks ago and on the 2nd day there were heavy winds the whole time. Im my group we had very good shooters. 3 of us were using Easton x10's and one using Easton ACC's. The one using ACC finished with the lowest score, and he was in NO WAY a slouch of a shot. Wind just carries those shafts more since they are larger diameter.
I think that is why they are so popular with FITA as well, shooting in flat, open areas most of the time.
When I lived in Iowa I was shooting Easton ACC 3L-18's and shooting good scores. Those arrows fly good. But I was shooting in heavily wooded areas most of the time where wind was not as much of a factor. I would consider what conditions you shoot in when weighing you options.

As for nock, the x10's use pins and I was using g nocks with the ACC's. I don't really have a preference either way. With g nocks they can break part of it into the shaft, making extraction sometimes difficult. With the pin nocks, they can bend when getting hit. So I just make sure I have extra arrows with me.
I hope that helps some.
Andrew


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Lee;

Here is my $.02 since you asked. 

I have shot a variety of different arrows for Field, everything from x7 (easton) aluminum's back in the old days, to CX select (Carbon Express), to ACE's (high dollar eastons), to Cartel Triples (Korean version of the ACE). 

I am currently shooting Carbon express Maxima 150's out of one bow, and am working with some Cartel triples for another. Maximas are probably more arrow than I will ever need, and for a whole lot less then ACE's or Nano's or pro tours(about $119.00 for a dozen shafts). They are what Mac shoots and Hinklemonster shot them while winning the NFAA outdoor nationals last year.

You could also consider ACC's which are a great field shaft as well. I shot them last year, and probably still would be if not for the whole easton thing at Vegas this year...for you though I would go with the Maximas. They are a bunch lighter than the accs and should help you get a little more speed out of your bow. 

Like stated, use uni-bushings and g-nocks. The easton CB unibushing fits perfect, and they also make a CB point as well. You could also consider:
Easton Litespeeds, or redlines, Carbon tech Cheetah's or whitetails, and probably something Gold Tip makes too...

A CX Maxima 150 at 28" of carbon with 100 grain point its right smack in the middle for spine with a 100 grain point. That's the way I would go if it were me (of course I already have...)


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks everyone - at work now and just getting time to come here occasionally - will digest all this over the weekend. 

Plus I am still welcome to other ideas/suggestions.

In the mean time Pat, would you be interested in working me up a price for 12 of the CX Max as you described (vanes, nocks, et al) or would I be just as well off to order "finished" arrows from LAS?


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Thanks everyone - at work now and just getting time to come here occasionally - will digest all this over the weekend.
> 
> Plus I am still welcome to other ideas/suggestions.
> 
> In the mean time Pat, would you be interested in working me up a price for 12 of the CX Max as you described (vanes, nocks, et al) or would I be just as well off to order "finished" arrows from LAS?


From Lancaster catalog:
Shafts- 3-d select $125 regular maxima $120
Points- CB points (i used the cx ones with inserts, but the inserts kept hanging in the target...)- $12
CB Unibushings- $9
G-Nocks- $7
Vanes-pick what you want, but flex fleth 187 shield (what I use)- $9

All prices are straight from my Lancaster catalog...You could get them to make 'em up like that I guess, but their standars arrow won't have all of the bushings etc...I personally prefer to do it myself...


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

psargeant said:


> From Lancaster catalog:
> Shafts- 3-d select $125 regular maxima $120
> Points- CB points (i used the cx ones with inserts, but the inserts kept hanging in the target...)- $12
> CB Unibushings- $9
> ...


That's what I was "hinting at" :wink: In other words what would you charge "me" to "do it yourself". A PM would be fine if you're interested.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

if you're going to spend most(like 80%+) of your shooting time in the woods, the ICS sized arrows will be ok. fat for the lines and piece-parts are alll over. just gotta find that magic glue in point size for em.

if you want something like the ACE's and are on a budget, check out the cartell triples. i have heard a ton of good about em.

i dont know what sizes goldtip makes for their CAA's, but that may be another option too. you could always pm x-cutter, he's the man with the answers at goldtip.

the cx aramids and nanos are what i call 'micro' arrows. they are also in the ACE class. tiny in size-BIG in price.

i know there are a bunch more options out there. may be worth thumbin thru the LAS catalog and look at specs for all the arrows. all ya gotta do is ask, someone has had to have shot somethin once before.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

You have a PM Lee...but for the record...within reason, I don't charge my friends...except maybe a :darkbeer:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

psargeant said:


> You have a PM Lee...but for the record...within reason, I don't charge my friends..*.except maybe a :darkbeer:*


Well heck, I already owe OBT, Jarlicker, & FirstMaxx a beer so I'd have no problem adding you to the list. :wink: (I dropped a point on the bunny shot at 25 ft.)


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Not picking a fight with you guys but the Triple is a parallel shaft, much more like the Navigator than the ACE which is barreled.

I think the Navigator is probably the best "skinny" arrow for those on a budget. I shoot them out of my recurve for field and know quite a few compounders who shoot them.

Dave


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Dave T said:


> Not picking a fight with you guys but the Triple is a parallel shaft, much more like the Navigator than the ACE which is barreled.
> 
> I think the Navigator is probably the best "skinny" arrow for those on a budget. I shoot them out of my recurve for field and know quite a few compounders who shoot them.
> 
> Dave


OK Dave, you got to remember I'm a newbie and you only mentioned "model" not "brand". :wink: I searched under "Lincoln", but couldn't find anything archery related.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

pragmatic_lee said:


> OK Dave, you got to remember I'm a newbie and you only mentioned "model" not "brand". :wink: I searched under "Lincoln", but couldn't find anything archery related.


Fact is though Lee around here, most of your shooting is in the woods without too much concern for wind. Unless you plan on going and shooting a bunch of FITA events, you don't need arrows that expensive...


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

psargeant said:


> Fact is though Lee around here, most of your shooting is in the woods without too much concern for wind. Unless you plan on going and shooting a bunch of FITA events, you don't need arrows that expensive...


Fully understand what you're saying, but I do practice a lot at home in an open field and wind is an issue at times with the 9.3's. Plus by the time you got to OBT's on Wed. the wind had calmed a bit, but on the 40,50,60 round there were times when almost everyone had to let down to get better footing. :wink:


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Easton Navigators. Great arrows slightly higher priced than ACC


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Fully understand what you're saying, but I do practice a lot at home in an open field and wind is an issue at times with the 9.3's. Plus by the time you got to OBT's on Wed. the wind had calmed a bit, but on the 40,50,60 round there were times when almost everyone had to let down to get better footing. :wink:


I've been there...but I still don't see $300 dollar arrows being worth it...


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

psargeant said:


> I've been there...but I still don't see $300 dollar arrows being worth it...


I'm going to have to do a lot more "development" before I could every justify that much for arrows, but I surely appreciate the info anyways. :wink:


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

well, now ya guys got me curious.......

so i went pokin around the goldtip site and was lookin at the CAA arrows. about a bill a doz. uses standard ACC componants. for a target arrow, they dont look too bad, they're just listed in the hunting section.

not a bad deal, about $30 cheaper/doz than the equivalant ACC


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

rock monkey said:


> well, now ya guys got me curious.......
> 
> so i went pokin around the goldtip site and was lookin at the CAA arrows. about a bill a doz. uses standard ACC componants. for a target arrow, they dont look too bad, they're just listed in the hunting section.
> 
> not a bad deal, about $30 cheaper/doz than the equivalant ACC


Look at the BlackHawk vapor CAAs (pg 68 of your Lancaster catalog)...I almost went that route this year...


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

psargeant, same arrows.....on the gt site, they're the CAA in the hunting arrow section.


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

Prag at your level of shooting ability right now. I just dont see the need for any thing over a decent mid range priced arrow 100 - 150 per doz new.
I highly would recomend Easton ACC, Carbon Express Maxima or Carbon Tech Whitetails. All are extremelly tough and durable.All fit very nicely inside a Fat Boy or Beman. LOL

I really think people that are not sure about arrow set up. Points weights, nocks for example would shoot inserts will screw in points. So they could play around with point weights a bit to help understand your arrows spine characteristics. Get the maximum accuracy out of thier set up.
ACC's are very easy to remove components. All Carbon Arrows are difficult to keep removing accessories with out damaging the shafts

A investment in a good solid micro adjust arrow rest would never be wasted money.

I strongly feel you should come out to DCWC one day. I will teach you how to build your arrows. You will build your own. And learn how to take care of your own stuff. Shooting those FITA and American rounds can be really hard on arrows. Field Archery is usually not to bad unless you use the big log arrows like you have now. You will learn a lot. The arrows are just the beginning. Cold beer goes perfectly with fletching arrows. LOL


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

jarlicker said:


> Prag at your level of shooting ability right now. I just dont see the need for any thing over a decent mid range priced arrow 100 - 150 per doz new.
> I highly would recomend Easton ACC, Carbon Express Maxima or Carbon Tech Whitetails. All are extremelly tough and durable.All fit very nicely inside a Fat Boy or Beman. LOL
> 
> I really think people that are not sure about arrow set up. Points weights, nocks for example would shoot inserts will screw in points. So they could play around with point weights a bit to help understand your arrows spine characteristics. Get the maximum accuracy out of thier set up.
> ...


I would listen to Joe 

and then take him up on his offer :thumb:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

I have to agree with Jarlicker.. you don't need $200 a dozen arrows to shoot field archery.. I've done just fine with my old trusty Gold Tip UL 400's to this point for my old PSE. The new Mystic will be spewing some CarbonTech Cheetahs this summer.. neither cost over $100 a dozen for shafts, I build them myself and use pin nocks.. :lol: (you just have to replace the bushing if you smack it with another on the pin, which I do regularly.. :embara: )

I shot my best score to date, and I've been at it less than a year, a couple of weeks ago with Hinkey and crew, a 523... so, you can get dannnng close without breaking the bank on components.. :wink: :nod:

Once a large arrow manufacturer picks me up as a staff member, I'll shoot the pricey ones.. til then, I'm gonna be a cheapskate.... :chortle: :wink:


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Field Arrows*

I have in my inventory ACC's, Navigators, Cartel Triples, GT UL Pros, and Nano XR's. The highest field scores I have ever shot have all been with the
Triples. Unfortunately they are 500's and are too stiff for the rig I am now shooting. The best shooting shaft I have and the tightest grouping shafts with no wind are the GT UL 600's. I strongly recommend these for shooting in the woods. I shot a field round last weekend and shot a 3X 20 on the 65 yarder which is a great score on that target for me. I really like the Nano's but unfortunately I got hung up in the initial voodoo surrounding these arrows and ordered the wrong size (730's). These are sold pending reciept of payment and when I recieve payment I am (at Dietmar's suggestion) going to order the Nano Pros in .600 spine. I hate shooting a shaft that is so expensive that you pee blood everytime you break one but I am told this is the way to get every possible point available in a field round. We spend a fortune on this sport so what's an extra $100 at this point? If I don't see exta points with them in the woods I'll shoot my GT UL 600's and save em for Yankton or other windy venues. For a less costly option in high performance skinny wind resistant arrows I think the Triples are the best bang for the buck. I found them to be superior to the Nav's and ACC's in grouping and durability. That's just my opinion, your mileage may vary. I have about 18
Triple 500's that I would sell or trade for Triple 600's.
Jbird


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

jarlicker said:


> Prag at your level of shooting ability right now. I just dont see the need for any thing over a decent mid range priced arrow 100 - 150 per doz new.
> I highly would recomend Easton ACC, Carbon Express Maxima or Carbon Tech Whitetails. All are extremelly tough and durable.All fit very nicely inside a Fat Boy or Beman. LOL
> 
> I really think people that are not sure about arrow set up. Points weights, nocks for example would shoot inserts will screw in points. So they could play around with point weights a bit to help understand your arrows spine characteristics. Get the maximum accuracy out of thier set up.
> ...


Joe, you don't know how much I've enjoyed shooting with you over the last month. And you surely don't know how much I've wanted to "pick your brain". :wink: Just seems that there was never a good time. 

Over the last few months I've slowly started obtaining a few archery tools, but arrow work was going to be the last on the list. 

Pat has some ACC 3-28's and has made me a "deal I can't refuse", but I've got several various arrows that are in need of new vanes, including 2 of my "logs". I came away from OBT's with 2 torn vanes. I also have several ICS arrows that need new vanes. So there's plenty to learn with.

I would love to spend an afternoon or day with you at the DCWC and "learn". And the beer will be on me - you name the brand and what day/time is good for you.


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

You may be a very lucky guy. If you can shoot the 3/28 Acc's you should be easily able to continue to get great buys on them. Psarge, Mac and several others I know used them for years and still have plenty to offer. The ACC is the old tried and true arrow. We always can go back to them when we want. They just are a tad bit heavier than a lot of the newer shafts out on the market today. Heck I traded a guy here on AT a set of 3-39's for his set of 3-49 ACC's like four years ago. That is what I am currently shooting. They fly excellent.

Our Barn Rat group takes pride in helping any archer we can get started, improve or try to be the best they can be. We have assembled more equipment, bow parts, if you shoot the right brand of equipment. Access to a huge vareity of other equipment you may want to try out, borrow, steal fair and square if you got guts. LOL. A lot of the best archery venues in Southeast for you to hone your skill. Not to mention a few very knowledgable people to get good straight advice from. If we cant get her done some one here on AT. will get her done for ya.

Any day you see me is a good day to ask for help. I have been playing this game a long time. I get more enjoyment from helping out a fellow archer than I do shooting scores. Trust me. You just have to listen to me babble.
I am out at DCWC just about every day during the week after work. Weekends are hit or miss. I do like shooting tournaments. Just call me.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

jarlicker said:


> You may be a very lucky guy. If you can shoot the 3/28 Acc's you should be easily able to continue to get great buys on them. Psarge, Mac and several others I know used them for years and still have plenty to offer. The ACC is the old tried and true arrow. We always can go back to them when we want. They just are a tad bit heavier than a lot of the newer shafts out on the market today. Heck I traded a guy here on AT a set of 3-39's for his set of 3-49 ACC's like four years ago. That is what I am currently shooting. They fly excellent.
> 
> Our Barn Rat group takes pride in helping any archer we can get started, improve or try to be the best they can be. We have assembled more equipment, bow parts, if you shoot the right brand of equipment. Access to a huge vareity of other equipment you may want to try out, borrow, steal fair and square if you got guts. LOL. A lot of the best archery venues in Southeast for you to hone your skill. Not to mention a few very knowledgable people to get good straight advice from. If we cant get her done some one here on AT. will get her done for ya.
> 
> ...


Will do, if I had your cell number. :wink: You're welcomed to PM it - I'm sure you don't want to post it here.


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

Joes phone # (919) 606-5692, if you need to call me during work hours just please make it quick.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

jarlicker said:


> Joes phone # (919) 606-5692, if you need to call me during work hours just please make it quick.


Got it - thanks. Will definitely keep it short if during work hours. I'll PM you my cell. Rather not post it here since the cell phone is owned and paid for by my employer.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

give the carbon express maxima a try i did and they shooting great


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Acc's are the best all around arrow..... If you want to step up the accuracy the navigators are an awesome arrow for the money!!!!!!!!


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## Joe P. (Jan 13, 2004)

I didn't see any mention of the Easton Redline arrows. They are not that expensive and are not as fat as the ICS or Blackhawk arrows. One of the guys at my range has been using them for a few years with good success.


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