# Recurves Max effective range?



## Hasbro

I was just wondering what some of your shooting or aiming styles are and what is your yardage comfort zone on say a whitetail?
There is an on going debate at the local 3-d club concerning traditional stake yardages which is the reason for this thread. We are a hunting club and like the shooting lanes trashy, but yardages are sometimes a rub! Any comments are welcome!!
I shoot instinctive and three under. I'm extremely confident with shots out to 20 yards but my groups suffer greatly any farther out. I basically let stuff go outside of 21 or 22 yards. What about ya'll?

Happy shooting 
Hasbro


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## Whitefeather

Same here Hasbro, I will not take a shot any further than 20 yards, with my recurve or longbow(instinctive-2 under). I like to get as close as possible first. As for 3D yardages, I would go as far as maybe 25 yards or so.

JP


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## BrianfromTulsa

Hasbro
I see you're from Sapulpa. I grew up there and live in Berryhill now. What club do you belong to and how do I get into it? Haven't belonged to an archery club in about 10 years but am interested now. Have a few friends who are also getting into traditional archery who would be interested as well.


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## barbwire44

I will shoot up to 35 yards, I am comftorable out to 35 yards and wouldn't have any doubts about making a good clean kill at that range on a whitetail. I shoot three under also.


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## Seymour

English or Mediterranean release, high anchor, small game, 20 yards, large, 40, more or less. There are other factors to consider such as the angle of penetration but I shouldn't muddy the waters I think.


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## barbwire44

Seymour, just going out on a limb here but with a mediteranian release and a high anchor, wouldn't the arrow be in you're line of sight...LOL!


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## Kitsap

*Release vs Range:*

Hasbro, you've brought up an interesting point about shooting three under vs split finger. The advantages of shooting three under are that you never pinch the arrow and that in using the three under style you are bringing the arrow up to your eye level so that you can sight down the barrel. Also, I suspect that, at close range anyway, you can shoot accurately very very quickly and consistently. Same thing works for guns without sights - for the same reason (reference trap and skeet shooting where the barrel of the shotgun is also the sight plane). 

The problem with using the three under style is that in order to hit the targets at ranges much greater than about 20 to 25 yards you wind up having to elevate the bow to the point where barrel sighting is no longer possible. Result is that at longer ranges you are effectively back to square one. In other words, barrel shooting is fine - for the close in shots; it just doesn't work for the longer shots. Three fingers under works fine at any time but it temps you to always barrel shoot.


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## Floxter

Kitsap, aren't you forgetting about all the string/face walkers that are pure deadly at Field/Hunter Rounds up to 80yrds with recurves and barebow compounds? They're all 3 Under.


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## Seymour

barbwire44: High anchor to me means mouth high not eye level. Low anchor is chin or chest high. There's an old Turkish anchor you might call forehead high but we probably shouldn't go into that since it involves some contortions that are probably unfamiliar to Western archers and could cause them to injure themselves, especially on horseback.


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## Seymour

You're correct, Kitsap. This is why it's also often called the Apache release. The Apaches were deadly at short range, especially on jackrabbits, but they also boasted they could kill Mexicans with rocks, which were probably effective over the same ranges as the Apache release was.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing but it's important to understand a technique's limitations as well as advantages.


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## Viper1

*Re: Release vs Range:*

kitsap -



Kitsap said:


> *Hasbro, you've brought up an interesting point about shooting three under vs split finger. The advantages of shooting three under are that you never pinch the arrow and that in using the three under style you are bringing the arrow up to your eye level so that you can sight down the barrel.
> 
> The problem with using the three under style is that in order to hit the targets at ranges much greater than about 20 to 25 yards you wind up having to elevate the bow to the point where barrel sighting is no longer possible*


The other slight problem is if/when an arrow nock breaks.

Viper1 out.


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## Seymour

I've been taken to task more than once for asserting that three-under and string walking are the same thing, at least in principle. Now Jack does it with impunity. What's up with that?


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## Hasbro

Hey Brian,
For traditional shooting the Okmulgee Bow Hunters assoc is the best IMO. I also belong to the Tulsa Co. Bow Hunters Off of w. 41st and Coyote Trail rd. in Sandsprings, They have a good setup.
Tulsa Co. has a shoot Sept 6th. PM me and I'll give you directions. Okmulgee has one coming up but I don't know the exact date!

All the trad shoots around here require one finger to touch the nock so string walking isn't done. I personally don't care, if someone wants to string walk then let em!
Kitsap- I don't conscientously gunbarrel. I concentrate on the spot and loose the arrow. I got upset a couple of years ago at my poor shooting and went three under and tried gapping. I never could gap because I tended to concentrate on the arrow and bad things happened. almost like target panic shooting wheelies. 

Hasbro


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## don s

i shoot out to twenty yards with confidence. anything after that i won't shoot. where i hunt it's pretty thick with brush so twenty yards is all i'll get any way.
don


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## AK in PA

Selfbows / Split finger / middle finger in corner of mouth - Feel that's a good, fast acting draw for the close range hunting archer.

Max shot distance depends on many things (degree of recent practice, confidence, temperature, amount of clothing, animal awareness and pace, etc...) I've taken shots to 35 yd or so, yet have passed on shots as close as 10. It all depends, and the decision can't really be made until the moment arrives.

Generalities might include; early season (lots of practice, warm weather, limber muscles, physically fresh) - shots out to 20-35 yds / late season (minimal practice, sub-freezing temps, stiff muscles, mind numbing shivering) - shots out to 10-20 yds.


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## oscag

what is a string/face walker ?? and how does it work


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## Floxter

"String Walking" is using a 3-under grip, but moving your fingers up and down the string, i.e. not necessarily touching the arrow nock, to create different trajectories for different distances. It is usually combined with "Face Walking" which is anchoring at differing places on your face, i.e. cheekbone, corner of mouth, under chin. A truly proficient string/face walker will have a different location on the string/face for each incremental distance. In its perfected form it can be extremely deadly. For this reason many archery venues outlaw either form and require that a single anchor point be used and one finger must always touch the nock. The Europeans are especially adept at the practice, particularly in IFAA Field which requires shooting up to 80yrds. Because of the recent association formed with the IFAA, the IBO now allows it in the Recurve Unaided Class, but still outlaws it in Hunter Recurve and Traditional Classes.


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## Lumis17

A string walker is someone who draws 3-fingers under but puts his drawing hand at different locations under the nock for different yardages. For example, at 20 yards they might put their fingers an inch below the nock/arrow and at 40 they might put them 2 inches under. They anchor at the same spot and normally put the tip of their arrow on the target, by walking the string they can hit at the different distances. I saw one once at the park and he has damn accurate. 
A face walker is kinda like a string walker except instead of going down the string he changes his anchor along his face. A higher anchor for close shots and a low anchor for long shots.


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## oscag

when you face walk do you hold the bow straight up and down ?? and what is your front sight??


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## Hasbro

Hold the bow vertical and the front sight is the tip of the arrow.

What # of bow did you decide on? Can you hold it at full draw & at anchor comfortably and how long, about, are you holding before you loose?

Happy shooting 

Hasbro


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## oscag

I got a 55# bear cheyenne . I can't hold it at fulled draw long I have only shot a recurve a few times and have to build up some muscles a 55 recurve is a lot ahrder than a 70 # compound


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## Hasbro

Oscag,
Yea it'll take some time. It gets frustrating at times but if it was easy it wouldn't be worth doing. Good luck and come to some of the local 3-d shoots!! As you have probably figured out by now, there's as much tinkering, tweaking and different techniques to try as in compounding. Isn't simplifying fun!! 

Happy shooting 

Hasbro


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## oscag

you are right I like to tinker and tweak my equip and form till I know the only thing between me and the bull is me, I had been shooting 3d at turnpike and tulsa county bowhunters and sperry just with a compound


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## van

Seymour and Kitsap have good points. 
However as I have been Shooting for over 40 years with ether a recurve or long bow. I have found that up to 40 yards I use three fingers under. At 40 yards with my old 45 lb long bow and wood arrows am point on with two fingers (split finger) or at two arrow width high with three fingers. (anchor point at eye tooth) and at 15 to 25 yds dead on with three fingers. Now around 30 yards arrow about ½ width high. As most of my hunting is now in FL for Hog and deer I have found most shoots are under 25 yards. So use three under. 
Target shooting with My old gold medalist BBR (split finger) am at one arrow width low at 40 yards. One high at arrow width high at 50. At 60 is the Kicker. I move to my pointer finger and same anchor point dead on the target. 80 yards same finger but down to my chin bone below the eye tooth. 
The bottom line to the above is that I believe that the mind gap shoots- even if you do not realize it. 

PS I have Never shoot a bow more then 45 lbs. And have taken elk, bear, lots of deer in the North West I believe most bow hunters go for a higher lb bow then they can shoot accurately. (my humble two cents worth) 

PSS I shoot rabbets out to 30 yds, squirrels out to 20 but miss some as they can jump the arrow, would take a deer or hog out to 40 IF ALL CONDITIONS ARE OK.


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## oscag

please explain in simple terms how your aiming with the tip at one or two withs ??


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## van

The width of the arrow. As it looks in relation to the target from the eye. The width as seen from the arrow point , lets say at 40 yds will look to be aprox, 6 in in dia . At 20 will look to be about (a guess) 1 in in dia.. AT 60 about the size of the 4 ring on a 30 MM target. And at 80 some what larger. When hunting lets say a deer or hog is at 40 yds . The kill zone is about the size of a soccer ball. Using a heavy wood arrow, with A split finger release my aim point is two arrow widths or about 6 in low. With 3 finger under I would have to aim higher about 6 arrow width high. To rely beat this to death thank of a 122mm center target that is used for a 600/900 round. At 40 yd With two fingers under I would be aiming at the BOTTEM of the 8 ring (red ring) ( two arrow widths) with three fingers under at the aim point would be at the top of the 3 ring about( 6 widths ?) High


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## Seymour

I agree with Van that many bowhunters probably attempt to use bows of too much draw weight. A 45-55 pound bow launching a 500 grain arrow will take any animal in North America if one pays attention to range and angle of penetration.

If you want to shoot through the animal lengthwise, punch through a shoulderblade or get adequate penetration at 100 yards, you probably need to consider carrying a rifle instead of a bow.

The key here, as usual, is shot placement, as it is with rifles really, but there too many people overload themselves thinking they can make up for lack of skill with brute force.


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## van

You hit the nail on the head. A 80 lb bow or a 500 nitro express could not stop a charging mouse if you could not hit it. 
However on second thought the concussion of the express might turn the charge aside.


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## Seymour

Reminds me of the great white hunter who was so fond of four gauges that he managed to bloody his own nose with practically every shot. The only charge turned aside was probably his own, the one he did while rotating completely off his feet.


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## p8ntballnryan

i've shot my 45 pound browning wasp 135 yards and sank 5 inches into a styrofoam target....took a loong time but i finally hit it....3foot by 3foot piece. so if it had a broadhead and hit meat....would've been enough to harvest and animal.


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## van

Great shot But can you do it with consistency- I would not try it on Game- For me the max range that I would shoot. Would be that max range that I could COUNT ON HITTING a 6 inch pie plate with all arrows that I shoot.
If that be 10 yds or a hundred its ok. As long as you make a clean kill.

IRead some where that the longest recorded kill with a longbow was off the side of a Canyon. 1/4 mile down on an elk.. The Brodhead severed the spinal cord . However this sounds a little far fached doesn’t it.


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## NCFrank

*Archery Golf*

Last chance I got I could easily shoot 200 yards and keep it in the fairway. Winds are hell for shots over 75 yards though. Wish I could find a place that had an occasional archery golf match here.


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## Floxter

At the NAA National Traditional Championships we are required to shoot wooden arrows with a longbow 180yrds in the Clout Round. The bullseye is a one yard circle on the ground. Can I do it? ---- About 20% of the time assuming the wind conditions are right. Would I try it on an animal? ---- Not even on a bet! Now I have nailed a groundhog at 65yrds: pure luck.


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## van

About a month ago some friends and I set out a 3-d deer at 100 yards. My first arrow was dead in the hart/ lung area. The ending result after about 90 arrows was :

2 in the kill zone (one was in the neck but was aiming at hart/lung)
one in butt
one broken antler and offending arrow shaft
one in upper ear
8 broken shafts
and two lost arrows


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## Seymour

Putting things into historical perspective, English military archers during the 15th and 16th century were required by royal edict to practice at ranges no less than 12 score yards, 240 yards, at clout style targets of course. That's the origin of clout shooting.

Competent Turkish military archers were expected to routinely hit three foot targets at 75 yards. That, for purposes of modern day comparison, translates to a nine to ten inch circle at 20 yards.

I suspect, most competent modern archers could beat that under typical range conditions although they might not do as well from horseback.

It does however put some perspective on what we might consider possible. 

Practicing at extended range doesn't hurt. If anything it would tend to enhance close range skills. But that still doesn't relieve the bowhunter of the responsibility to close with the game so as to insure a clean kill. Military archers were concerned mainly with inflicting casualties against armored foes not getting clean kills, but I wouldn't doubt that their skills would be more than adequate to get those clean kills at appropriately shorter ranges.


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## hawk thrower

i feel ok out to mid 30 yrds or so


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