# compound shoulder alignment



## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

How important is shoulder alignment to the target for a compound shooter. 

I know our recurve kids have perfect alignment to the target (both shoulders and the target in a straight line. 

We have a couple of kids who are struggleing with their form, and I noticed that if I put an arrow across their back, the arrow points to the left of their target.

Is this acceptable for a compound shooter?


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## GRIM (Mar 8, 2006)

Sounds as they are using an open stance, if they close it a little, more inline with the target, slightly open is fine.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

It could be too open of a stance, but I know most of the kids you are talking about and I don't think they have an open stance at all...

I think that they have too much weight on the heels and a large curve in thier back. Thus are not really getting into thier back and they are cheating thier backtension releases by rolling the release hand instead of rotating the scapula from the front to the rear to engage the release.

I know Angela is executing her backtension properly when I put a arrow across her scapulae at full draw and it points off to the right of the target, as you know she is a RH shooter.

-Andrew


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

To answer your initial question, it's just as important as what Oly style recurve shooters are trying to obtain. The lack of alignment is usually a result of a lack of upper body rotation. Keep in mind, your foot position doesn't determine if a stance is open, neutral, or closed. It is all based upon your hip position. It will be easier to get the shouders in line if the hips are rotated more towards the target. Having a more neutral, or less open, stance will make the alignment a bit easier but you also compromise lower body stability by doing so. Indoors it may not hurt but outdoors in the wind you may find more body movement.

Getting the arrow to point to the right of the target for a RH shooter is largely affected by how much movement is obtained in the draw side scapula once anchor is reached. The bigger the buldge in the scapula area, the more deflection you will get in the arrow across the back.

Take a look at both the upper body movement and how much the back is being used.

Terry


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Lots of varied opinions on this one...

Most (not all) good compound shooters I know do NOT have their shoulders in line with the target. An arrow across their shoulder blades would point left of the butt. Stance has nothing to do with it really.

You can shoot a compound this way, but you won't be very successful trying to shoot a recurve this way. Holding weight is the difference, and pulling through the clicker. At a minimum, the shoulders should be in line with the target. Better yet, the shoulders should be in line with the bowarm (BEST method). I have NEVER seen a compound shooter do this yet, but that is not to say it can't be done.

I really struggle coaching compound shooters because they all want to shoot thier bows with their shoulders out of line (because they can). My recurvers don't have this problem, because they simply cannot get through the clicker after just a few shots if they are out of line. 

Logic says the being in line would be more consistent. But when I'm coaching compound archers, I always seem to be fighting the "so and so does it this way..." mentality. I usually spend all my time arguing with a young shooter about bent elbow vs. straight elbow... :sad: 

In some ways, teaching recurve is easier since the bow will just simply beat up an archer that isn't shooting it right.  

John.


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

Great replies all. 

The kids I'm talking about all have a neutral stance. It's their shoulders that are out of alignment. Our top compound JOAD kids have nearly perfect alignment to the target, like our recurve kids; these kids are also the ones that are the most "coach-able". 

The problem I'm seeing with some of the kids is too short of a draw length to allow proper shoulder rotation to the target.....

I know what you mean Limbwalker about fighting an ingrained behavior.

My daughter for instance grew 5" on her wingspan since last fall. She literally grew into poor shoulder alignment....shame on us "her three coaches" for not catching it sooner; even now with her new bow, it's a fight to get her aligned, because it feels right with her "power triangle."

I think I'm looking for confirmation, that I need to use a "command" style of coaching with some of them.


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

KenL,

When you work with the kids that are having some difficulty, are you trying to get them set correctly by using the bow? If you are, try taking the bow away and have them either use mimetics (go through the motion of shooting with nothing in their hand) or use a stretch band or non-stretch nylon strap or rope to get them to setup with the correct alignment. Then try moving back to the bow and see how they do. If they still struggle, go back to the training aids Work back and forth until they get a new feel for the proper method. 

The thing you mentioned about the bow fitting them is a critical step for a fixed draw length bow. If it is too short, they will never get in line without having to compromise some other part of their setup.

Terry


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## Levl4e (Feb 17, 2004)

*try something like this*

They can watch the tip of the arrow while at full draw. Instant feedback.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

For me not being a superstar archer it is very important. If I use a recurve style shoulder alignment I can aim steadier and get less left shots. 
Also you want the shoulders pointing to the right of the target, not at the target.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Bob, you're just too darn clever sometimes... 

Gotta get (make) one of those things...

John.


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## Archery Ang (Apr 24, 2006)

Yeah...that's WAY cool...gotta make one of those!


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Put a little spike mounted sideways and it'd serve a dual purpose of helping you to keep your bowarm after release too. :star:


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## Levl4e (Feb 17, 2004)

*tools*

I have a few other goodies I will post after I get to the hotel in Arizona. Glad you like it. It really works and the archers mom sells them in a much more refined model.


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

If I recall correctly, Larry Wise says in his book "Core Archery" that shoulders should be parallel with the arrow line.


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

In Kisik Lee's book, he shows parallel to the arrow is o.k. however at or right of the target is better, albeit recurve....

It seems we're all on the same page with this one. The old days of the power triangle are gone. People who shoot well with their shoulders out, are "getting away with it."

Great discussion all........


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Dado said:


> If I recall correctly, Larry Wise says in his book "Core Archery" that shoulders should be parallel with the arrow line.


Yes, he also shows great examples of how not to use the back correctly.


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

KenL said:


> In Kisik Lee's book, he shows parallel to the arrow is o.k. however at or right of the target is better, albeit recurve....
> 
> It seems we're all on the same page with this one. The old days of the power triangle are gone. People who shoot well with their shoulders out, are "getting away with it."
> 
> Great discussion all........


Hm well, if it's to the RIGHT of the target then we're talking about power-triangle (unless LH shooter is in question)


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Marcus said:


> Yes, he also shows great examples of how not to use the back correctly.


Please enlighten us which exactly are those?


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Core Archery promotes the use of the upper back and sqeezing the shoulder blades together. This is not good because you have very very limited omvement here and results in left-right shots. 
The rear scapula should move down and in diagonally using the lower traps instead of the rhomboids. This gives greater movement, move stability and greater consistancy, and coincidently how recurve archers do it. 

'Power triangle' is a buzz word like that too easily be misunderstood and used incorrectly. Lets stick to actual descriptions that can be easily repeatable by those who are not down with the buzz. 'Back tension' is another example of this kind of thing that causes more harm than good.


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## JohnR (Apr 5, 2007)

*Where can I get one of them.*



Levl4e said:


> They can watch the tip of the arrow while at full draw. Instant feedback.


Kool device where can I get one. Thanks. :wink: :tongue:


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Marcus said:


> Core Archery promotes the use of the upper back and sqeezing the shoulder blades together. This is not good because you have very very limited omvement here and results in left-right shots.
> The rear scapula should move down and in diagonally using the lower traps instead of the rhomboids. This gives greater movement, move stability and greater consistancy, and coincidently how recurve archers do it.
> 
> 'Power triangle' is a buzz word like that too easily be misunderstood and used incorrectly. Lets stick to actual descriptions that can be easily repeatable by those who are not down with the buzz. 'Back tension' is another example of this kind of thing that causes more harm than good.


But Marcus we're not all built the same. I've read many testimonies here of people feeling the upper back better than the lower, not to mention how many had been thrilled by Larry Wise's face-to-face coaching. I doubt you feel that there's *only one* proper way to shoot a compound or any kind of bow...


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Whatever. Don't ask next time.


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Marcus said:


> Whatever. Don't ask next time.


You said yourself of "how not to use back muscles properly" - I simply asked for a clarification, as his method obviously works. Nonetheless, you commented my post about him advizing shoulders inline with the arrow, I suppose you got nothing against that theory of his?


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

o.k. guys it's all friendly.....

I know for me personally I need to keep my shoulders in line with the target, or I can't hold.....in my opinion, if it works for you, great....stick with it.

However, I'm coaching JOAD kids, and need I to get the young ones started right, and the older kids fix some bad habits....


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## Levl4e (Feb 17, 2004)

*More gadgets*

Thsi is a take off of the form master. It has one part strapped to your elbow and the other simulates the string under a load. The part you can't see well is where I have my left hand reaching around to touch my draw side scapula. You really learn how to manipulate the scapula well with this setup. Thnaks to Ron Carmicheal for the gret pics.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Dado said:


> You said yourself of "how not to use back muscles properly" - I simply asked for a clarification, as his method obviously works. Nonetheless, you commented my post about him advizing shoulders inline with the arrow, I suppose you got nothing against that theory of his?


Care to explain why in his book all his examples are with the shoulder pointing well to the left of the arrow?

I'm not interested in arguing about Larry Wise's methods. If you wish to throw all your eggs into that basket be my guest. 
I can explain to you how to best use your back based on recurve practises, however I won't waste my time talking to someone who makes comments like


> we're not all built the same


Unless that person is of a different species, in which case see a vet.


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

I'm not quite sure where Srpska is, but I'm pretty sure you two are in different countrys...thank God!...lol. 

Anyway everything evolves and improves over time....my form included....I've only been shooting for 23 years.......I'm willing to change. 

Larry's book is great, it's the first archery book I ever bought. We as coaches and instructors need to be on the same page and have a National direction......even if something a little different works for some of us.

Larry's form is how I started....shoulders to the target works better for me.

I asked the question on the coaches forum of the NAA. They seem to think recurve form and compound form are very similar.....meaning they would like to see the shoulders rotated in line with the target.

I think that's the direction I'm headed with my students.....


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

The thing is that you need the shoulde4r further over than yet. If you think about the forces in use and where they need to go you will see that if the shoulders run parallel with the arrow and you are pulling on the string then the forces are running down the inside of the arm. The closer you get your shoulder to the string the stronger it will be because the forces are more central.


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Marcus said:


> Care to explain why in his book all his examples are with the shoulder pointing well to the left of the arrow?
> 
> I'm not interested in arguing about Larry Wise's methods. If you wish to throw all your eggs into that basket be my guest.
> I can explain to you how to best use your back based on recurve practises, however I won't waste my time talking to someone who makes comments like


Well, whatever - I'm too fan of using lower muscles rather than the way he described in the book, but all I'm saying is that that has worked (and it still works) for him, and his students obviously. Has it ever occured to you that someone DOESN'T want to have greater movement in his back during the BT execution? I don't have his book on hand now to quote precisely, but I do remember, IE, the part where he advizes to 1st practice with longer release travel, or rotation, or whatever the release is built, before adjusting it to shorter - to acquire the feeling and then just shoot with a short release reaction...
Maybe you just haven't read the book carefully enough.
In the end, he himself uses his method and his results speak for themselves...




> Unless that person is of a different species, in which case see a vet.


Hm, have you ever seen Dietmar Trillus at full draw? Is he also a different specie, or you don't consider all Canadians as such?


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Hang on, so you are now back tracking and simply saying 'well Larry Wise says X and it works for him?'
OK so what?
Did you think that maybe Larry's students may do better if they did not try and use their lomboids?
Larry is smart enough that he is studying new ways of coaching and I am sure will refine his teachings. No one is perfect. 

So if Larry came out and shot with his elbow at his waste you will endorse it?

Release travel is totally different to back usage and correct muscle usage. Next you will be telling me that using the rhomboids is OK because Larry Wise uses a 4" elevation bar on his sight. 

There is a reason that the elbow moves down and around and not just around while staying level. 
It could not move in this direction if you are squeezing your shoulder blades together. It can only move this way if the rear scapula is moving down and in.


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Marcus said:


> Hang on, so you are now back tracking and simply saying 'well Larry Wise says X and it works for him?'
> OK so what?
> Did you think that maybe Larry's students may do better if they did not try and use their lomboids?


What I'm trying to say that like any sport it is individual, and in terms of what's generally accepted as a proper starting point - the archer develops and finetunes his form of shooting. That's why I mentioned D.Trillus, and I'm sure you know of many more examples (or should I say exceptions)



> So if Larry came out and shot with his elbow at his waste you will endorse it?


Not neccessarily endorse, rather try - before discarding it  . But I'd give it a chance at least, unlike some...



> Next you will be telling me that using the rhomboids is OK because Larry Wise uses a 4" elevation bar on his sight.


you may be on to something here 



> There is a reason that the elbow moves down and around and not just around while staying level.
> It could not move in this direction if you are squeezing your shoulder blades together. It can only move this way if the rear scapula is moving down and in.


I'm perfectly aware of that, but having seen photos of Larry upon release, his elbow also moved in the same manner...


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

BTW I'm currently shooting Evolution (actually two for both of my bows) and that release requires a straight pull back.
I have found, at least so far, that the best results are with the release hand almost parallel to the ground (something like J.Dudley). I kept track of what my back was doing while I "simply" pulled the complete unit back, and I'm pretty much sure I had the upper and lower back muscles participating the same. How about that variation?
I have to say; conventional shooting of BT release didn't give good results. That is, shooting indoor game of 30 arrows where only X counted as 10, I managed to score up to 290 with skinny ACCs, using the straight pull-back method.
But the most important thing, and a true picture of grouping skinny shafts in this round with modifided bt execution, is that the same 290 fita would mean something like 29X vegas, while the conventional method would be noticably below these scores. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd score more than 2-3Xes extra if I used X7s, but nonetheless the whole method works better in terms of my current capabilities (not nearly a pro shooter, just enjoying archery).

Conclusion: even your equipment can dictate of how you use your back muscles.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Dado said:


> BTW I'm currently shooting Evolution (actually two for both of my bows) and that release requires a straight pull back.


Not trying to add fuel to any fire, but that release doesn't require a straight pull back. It requires a certain amount of force be put on it to set it off. Performing the release as described by Marcus (which I happen to agree with) will work just fine with that release if the tension is set correctly on it. To pull it straight back to set it off is to cheat the release and negate the training benefits of it. It is no different than rolling your wrist with a hinge release or slapping a trigger.

As I tell my wife, you can get away with a LOT at 20 yards with spots that would put you way off at 70M. Of course, you can do something totally different from the norm and as long as you do it exactly the same every time you can see success. I think what Marcus is describing is the best way to perform a forgiving shot, a method that will provide a much easier action to duplicate without as much variance from shot to shot.

I hope I'm not putting words into your mouth Marcus, and please correct me if I am wrong.

So, Dado, I think there are many methods that people can be successful with, but the "right" method is the one that gives the greatest chance for a person to be successful. Setting them up to perform a good, clean, similar shot over and over again. I believe this shot is the one that Marcus is describing.

-Andrew


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Well, what I tried to explain, based on my experience (it's been more than 8 months since I got the 1st evolution) is that you have to be very careful not to have this release rotate around the index finger, and at the same time keep aproximately the same tension on the index and middle finger - kind of a straight hold that seems best done with drawhand as much as possible parallel to the ground. If you try to execute it like the usual, say carter solution, you might end up with more effort than you need. At least this is how I feel it. Of course when I'm at full draw the motion isn't EXACTLY a straight pull as when the back muscles move the whole relase-hand-arm unit the elbow starts to break the arrow line. Maybe I didn't express too well, but I just carefully watched my self drawing away at anchor and the feeling is like a straight pull but in reality it's a straight forward round motion of the elbow that's travelling behind the arrow line. Once again, a _straight pull _only as a solid feeling of the pull. I suppose a complete pull could be done, but at that point there would be more middle-shoulder muscles and triceps (or even biceps) activity, which is what we don't want to happen.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

No I think you are spot on there spangler. 

I have also been shooting the Evolution Dado and just so you know a 290 FITA is equivlent to a 20x Vegas round. A 29x Vegas would be a 299 FITA. 
In my usage of this release it became far far more important that I use my back more like a recurve shooter. To get the best results I must set my scapula low and rotate my release arm into anchor (exactly how I teach my recurvers based on Mr Lee's teachings) this then allows me to lock in the shot better and pull with the release with little effort. 
spangler is spot on though, you get away with heaps indoor. I have already shot quite a few 300 Vegas round with the evo in the last 2 weeks, it's really easy. (mid 20 X rounds) but it's 90m and FITA Field where you need to make sure you use the scapula well. 

The funny thing is that I suggest that you don't know which muscles you are using. Just pulling back and hoping for the best. That's fine for you, but when you are trying to teach others that leads to serious mistakes being made. One of my club members has been struggling for months till I picked up the other day that he was trying to 'use back tension' and was pulling his scapula around as far as it would go and tensing up his rhomboids really hard because he was trying to get tension in his back. Costing him 40-60 points in FITA easy. This is the result of the misinformaton that is put out there by 'back tension advocates'. 

Why is it that someone always enters technique discussions with 'But blah blah doesn't do that and he's good'. Well try teaching someone else to do that. Teaching 'hey try everything and see which works for you' is stupid. That's like giving a chemistry student a box of chemicals and saying 'go have some fun and see how it works out'
A coach should have a very clear understanding of the actions and muscles required to activate the shot. They do not need to be 1400 shooters, but they do need a formulated process with clearly defined structure. No good coach says 'hey do what you want'. 



> I suppose a complete pull could be done, but at that point there would be more middle-shoulder muscles and triceps (or even biceps) activity, which is what we don't want to happen.


If you actually read anything I wrote and thought about it you would know this is not true. Good compounders and recurvers get a complete pull with full movement with no arm or shoulder usage at all. 
Shoot next to a Korean recurver. They have measured arm tensions that are less than most people who are relaxed have, and that's at full draw. 
Those are the guys I look at for basing technique on, not the ones who can not be copied. 
Korean Compounder


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

So Marcus if that guy from your club has been tensing his back muscles and moving his scapula around - how have you helped him in the end?
I mean, I was in the same problems few months ago and I decided not to think of what am I'm moving there and how am I doing it. Rather just to aim and feel my upper and lower arm muslces as relaxed as possible while trying to pull the complete unit (if the arm muscles are relaxed then the only muscles that can be pulling the arm back are the back muscles). I even stopped trying to feel whether my rhomboids worked more or less because every time I concentrated on anything more complex than aim/pull I'd get lesser results. Like someone once said, people tend to overcomplicate their shot routine.

PS
it was a typo about the 29x vegas...


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

BTW - I just felt the draw now - noticed that my scapula settles pretty much low; I guess we're on the same page here...


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

Oh and thanks for the hi-jacking gentlemen.....the thread is about form as it relates to shoulder alignment........not shot execution....based on the number posts you both have....maybe you both should shoot more and type less......lol......just kiddin' it's been good reading from both of you.....thanks for the help.....


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

KenL said:


> Oh and thanks for the hi-jacking gentlemen.....the thread is about form as it relates to shoulder alignment........not shot execution....based on the number posts you both have....maybe you both should shoot more and type less......lol......just kiddin' it's been good reading from both of you.....thanks for the help.....


No problem there Ken :wink: That's the beauty of this forum - ask for shoulder alignment explanation and you get a complete shot execution review.


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Sorry Ken
We had been struggling to find out why this 6ft guy was about 3" overdrawn at 27" draw. Also on why he constantly had left-right issues. He also had no back usage either, but was trying to use it. It was then that I clicked that he was pulling is scapula around as close to the spine as possible to feel the rhomboids work and simply had no where else to go. Result was poor execution and left shots. 
On moving his draw cycle so that his scapula was lower and moved down and in instead his draw length was corrected and his left-rights disappeared. 

One thing I teach is to NOT use muscle. If you need to move something don't think about tensing that muscle, just move the bone that that muscle attaches too. Try it with your forearm.
Move your arm forearm up by tensing your bicep. Concentrate on just tensing the bicep. The arm moves little and the bicep tenses up. 
Now concentrate on just the bones. Move the bones required and it moves without making the bicep flex. 
The body knowns how to move the skeleton, let it.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

KenL said:


> Oh and thanks for the hi-jacking gentlemen.....


*shrug* it is the nature of the beast.



KenL said:


> the thread is about form as it relates to shoulder alignment........not shot execution....


The question of should alignment was answered, and it led directly into being able to use your back correctly. With your shoulders improperly aligned, your back curved, and the weight on your heels, it is very difficult to use the correct muscles to finish the shot.

-Andrew


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

I know I may catch "you know what" for this, but....initially the primary focus of a coach for a new shooter should be form first.....shot execution second. The ability for a shooter to hold on target....sets up the shot execution....it's also the foundation of the mental game......

That's where I'm at with some of my shooters....holding...


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## LEADWORKS (Apr 6, 2006)

I shoot compound, and I've tried shooting with my shoulder's pointing to the right of the target, and it does give some nice clean releases, but it's just not practical for me, and it's kind of hard on my joints. I use my bow for hunting too, so I need more clearance for heavy cold weather clothing. The string would be too close to my arm, and it would grab my coat sleeve. Right now, I shoot with my shoulders in line with the target. It's not as solid of a shot, but it's ok. I do shoot with a straight arm, low wrist.

I've read Larry's book, and I've been reading Kisik Lee's website. I've been trying to apply Kisik Lee's theory to compound shooting, and it's been interesting. I do think that the idea of pulling the scapula down works better than just squeezing the rhomboids. When I just squeeze the rhomboids, I notice a lot of left/right misses, and my bow hand seems to want to move to the left, then rebound back to the right after the shot. When I use my lats, and rotate my scapula down, I notice that the bow hand actually naturally goes straight forward. Pretty cool stuff.


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

Could not agree more Leadworks on the hunting thing........Fortunately I have separate hunting and spot rigs. My hunting D/L is a full 1" shorter than my spot bow. In addition to the clothes thing, I find it's much easier to get a clean shot from my treestand if I'm twisted around a bit.....


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Definitely, only compound shooters coming from rcurve or having had a strong recurve shooting experience can (try to) use proper alignement of the back like recurve shooting. Otherwise, if they directly stat with compound, they will end up with back line pointing to the left. This position is easier to handle the line of forces balancing the compound at full draw, but is not good to get good results shooting in back tension, as the tension can be on th eback, but in a totally different way than with recurve. This diferent way does not jeopadize the result if you use all kind of releases but the rotation type, so is by definition easie rto use than the one with proper alignemnt of the back. A clear example of what I mean is Reo Wilde (thumb release) or our Sergio Pagni (Cascade release). They both do not show a "good" alignemt of the back , but they both have an incredible efficiency inside the alignemnt they have created, and their kind of alignemnt is totally different one from the other. Logan Wilde, Patrizio Hofer and Dave Cousin have a much better back line, but their results are just similar. Morgan Lundin, from the other end, being since ever a Stan shooter, is presently suffering form a bad alignemnt of the back, that is reducing a lot his efficiency because of the release he is still using. IMHO, the names I have mentioned are presently the top 6 shooters in the world I have personally analyzed several times so that I can comment about. 
What is sure, is that with proper equipment, there are more alignement solutions available to compunders to get to the top than recurvers have. 

P.S.
Michele shoots compound very few times a year, just for fun. His back is perfect, he has a good back tension, but his bow arm is slightly bent downward. His release is a Stan, but he use it with fingers, not with back rotation. In 2006 Indoor italian champs he has been able to win the Compound men bronze with 119/117 in final shooting that way.... So many possibilities with a compound bow.....


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## Ivorytooth (Jan 22, 2004)

Somebody draw a picture of the power triangle so people can see. I think there is already one floating around here. It will show the line of the shoulders pointing right or at the target pretty much.

My shoulders are pointing right at or slightly right of the target I think. I need an overhead shot of me shooting.

As far as the scapula thing, I think if your shoulders are down and relaxed, your scapula will be low and it the proper position. The thing is, most archers don't have their rear shoulder down very far. The bow arm shoulder may be low, but the release shoulder is almost up on their ear.  Hard to have a good steady sight picture that way. Hard to shoot BT that way too unless you arm or hand shoot it.


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

I have had problems with shoulder alignment due to a restriction in my right elbow. It won't bend as much as the left. I cannot touch my nose by just using the elbow joint. This causes my shoulders to be lined up to the left off the target. A necessary trade of to get a straight line in the verticle plane from elbow to nocking point to point of the arrow. As Vittorio says the let off is what lets me shoot this way and the back wall helps as well as there is no actual movement on expansion just a loading up of the fingers on the tab.


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

ttt


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Ivorytooth said:


> Somebody draw a picture of the power triangle so people can see. I think there is already one floating around here. It will show the line of the shoulders pointing right or at the target pretty much.


I believe I copied this from the Sag board, I hope someone (Marcus?) can take credit or direct credit where deserved with my apologies. Its one of the best "triangle" pics I have seen.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> Lots of varied opinions on this one...
> 
> Most (not all) good compound shooters I know do NOT have their shoulders in line with the target. An arrow across their shoulder blades would point left of the butt. Stance has nothing to do with it really.
> 
> ...



John:

I'm working on changing that mentality one shooter at a time.


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## LEADWORKS (Apr 6, 2006)

I'm just going to switch to recurve for competition some day when I can afford it, and leave the compound for hunting and 3D.


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## KenL (Dec 1, 2005)

ttt


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## wmt3rd (Oct 20, 2004)

Here is my favorite picture showing alignment. This is the desktop background on my computer. I hope Marcus doesn't mind me oogling at Erika whenever I turn my computer on. :wink: 


Mack


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

LOL
I was looking for that picture to post.


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