# shocking that a 400spine tunes out of a 50# longbow?



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

What works for one doesn't necessarily work for others. I'm not surprised that .400s tune well for you. I'm shooting a 50# recurve and using a 31" .340, although I have do a heavy point on there...250 grains. I imagine your longbow is not cut as far past center shot as my recurve, so going down a spine makes sense. I might be able to get a .400 to tune with that bow but would have to cut the arrows shorter than I like and use _very_ light points, which I also don't want to do. The hybrid longbows I've had in the past shot pretty similar to my recurves, just needed a little more point weight with the same shaft or drop down a spine and use a little lighter point.

That's why it makes no sense to me to try give out _specific_ advice regarding arrow setups over the internet. And arguing about it is just silly imo, there's too many variables that go into the mix for someone to determine exactly what someone on the other side of the country, who they have never met, will need to any degree of certainty. At best you can try to point someone in the right direction, give what works for _yourself_ if your bow is similar, provide a tuning link or advice if they need it, and wish them luck. 

In my opinion bare shafts tell the tale. If you can group bare shafts and fletched together at 25 yards or so, who cares what the number on the shaft is? 

I like to shoot groups of two or three bare shafts with two or three fletched, identical length, identical point weight, from as far back as I can. I don't like the watch in flight method, although it should get you to the same place. Trying to see a bare shaft in flight is tough if it's not planing a lot (might be my old eyes) and I don't need any influence to "look" for the arrow and take my mind off of my follow through. Shooting groups of bare shafts allows me to walk up, look at the relation of the bare to fletched shafts in the target, even mark the target over a sequence of groups and watch for trends. Trying to _watch_ for planing just isn't as efficient or reliable for me, and the bottom line is that _if_ the shafts are planing, they _won't_ group with fletched shafts at 25-30 yards anyway so why try to watch them in flight?

This is a pretty good synopsis of the process...http://www.acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning.html


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

Be careful of Easykeeoper's use of the work "planning" it could be confusing, because correct tuning is called "bare shaft planning". It is the comparison of impact points between bare and fletched shafts. I suggest the use of www.bowmaker.net/tuning, but I'm sure ACS is somewhat the same, since the A means Adcock and he is the bowmaker.

Bowmania


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

I shoot full length GT 5575s (400 spine) out of my 48# Omega, 100g insert 125g tips. Fly like darts.


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## BowmanJay (Jan 1, 2007)

Every bow and shooter are different, even bows from the same bowyer will shoot and perform differently. The spine charts are only starting points, not the gospel for tuning.


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## bigtone1411 (Nov 3, 2011)

Most bows I buy are 50-55 pounds. I always start out with .400 spine and can usually get it to tune tweaking point weight and brace height.


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## jusoldave (Apr 28, 2012)

BowmanJay said:


> Every bow and shooter are different, even bows from the same bowyer will shoot and perform differently. The spine charts are only starting points, not the gospel for tuning.


Couldn't have said it better, myself. 

I've often found I prefer a stiffer arrow than what the charts and all common sense and reason will prescribe... and on occasion, I find a bow prefers one softer than prescribed.

Only way to learn what YOUR bow prefers, with YOU shooting it: just like STS has done, shoot 'em and do a head-to-head comparison. There's no easy was to find the "perfect" arrow for one's bow.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I like to tune mine a little weak and when fletched they fly great.


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## CFGuy (Sep 14, 2012)

> Anyways the one guy said im way way over spined and he has freinds that shoot full length 400 spine shafts ith 250-325gr upfront out of 60-65# high performance bows with 28"+ draw lengths and they are tuned great.


How close was that thing to center and how long were the arrows? I shoot 32" .340's with 165gr up out of my 53# Omega. No way I could tune a .400 with my 31" DL.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

If it works, it works. Don't change.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Here...try this link:
http://veraxservice.net/arch/tuning.htm
I believe the original site is down/gone...so the above link is a copy.


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## Steel Horse (Apr 11, 2010)

I use Beman Centershots 400's at 31 1/4" with 275 grain up front,out of my 61# curve.Laser beams!


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

wseward said:


> Here...try this link:
> http://veraxservice.net/arch/tuning.htm
> I believe the original site is down/gone...so the above link is a copy.


Interesting, the original site was functional until very recently. The ACS site is a reprint of the OL Adcock write-up, reproduced with his permission.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Spine is one of the few things in archery which is actually very individual and varies greatly between similar set-ups.
Arrow length and GPI has a huge effect when comparing carbon shafts. I can get .300 spine arrows to tune with just 40# with only 130gr up front (including the insert), but only if they are very light GPI and 32".

Shoot what works for you.

-Grant


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

sawtoothscream said:


> Posted my arrow tuning problem thread over on tradgang and there set ups seem odd to me. I am now getting pretty great arrow flight and bareshafts are flying a little weak from the fletched with the 400 spine easton axis. cut them down so they are a little longer then my goldtip arrows and through paper and with bareshafting it looks worlds better.
> 
> Anyways the one guy said im way way over spined and he has freinds that shoot full length 400 spine shafts ith 250-325gr upfront out of 60-65# high performance bows with 28"+ draw lengths and they are tuned great.
> 
> ...


Here's where I believe your major delta's lay between yourself and the other cast and crew queried..

*At 9/32ndths?.."AXIS Shafts" are considered to be a "Micro-Diameter" CF Shaft*

where standard CF shafting is in the 5/16ths diameter ballpark and believe it or not?...that 1/32ndths" dif?..that moves the centerline axis of the arrow inboard by a mere 1/64th"?..can make a huge dif in dynamic spine and tuning.

Here's an example of what I got going on right now...i'm currently working with 2 bows and 3 different primary arrow configs and both my Bushman R/D hybrid longbow and my Bear SuperK are BOTH...64"/37# bows and both riser windows are in fact cut-to-center and the 3 arrows i'm currently working with are as follows..

1. Carbon Tech 25/50 Cheetahs, .650 spine, 28 1/4" long, 175gr points, 360grs Total: At 9.7GPP?...if anything?..they are a touch on the weak side but sick quick off the longbow and forgiving..the SK tunes with them but doesn't like them..to light and vocal..the SK likes more arrow weight.

2. GT3555 XT Hunters, .500 spine, 30"s long, 250gr points, 515grs Total: At 13.9GPP?...if anything?...they are on slightly on the stiff side but only if I screw up...outside of that?..they are glassy smooth shooting, extremely quiet and hit like a freight train off either bow.

*NOTE: Both of the above arrows are 5/16ths standard diameter arrows..and now onto my 9/32dths Micro-Diameter...*

3. Beman MFX Classics, .600 spine, full length 30 1/2"s long, 125gr points, 415gr Total: At 11.2GPP?...they are noticeable weak off both bows..i think I could build the riser wall out by a 1/64th and they would probably tune right in but I tried some of my 5/16ths diameter 100gr points and they tuned right in off both bows I just need to order some 100gr 9/32ndths screw-ins for them.

so if ya take notice of the spine values and point weights above?..it's easy to see how the smaller diameter shafts fall closer in line with the centerline/stringpath hence allowing you to shoot either a stiffer spine or much lighter point weight.

Hope that helps and L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Full length .400s fly just fine out of my 50# Super Diablo with standard inserts and 125 grain tips. Not surprised.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

thorwulfx said:


> Full length .400s fly just fine out of my 50# Super Diablo with standard inserts and 125 grain tips. Not surprised.


Patrick...you should be...and here's why...

This guys Draw Length is 27 1/2"s....it's the nature of a smaller diameter shaft listing closer to center shot yielding a dynamic spine delta.


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## jakeemt (Oct 25, 2012)

I shoot an omega 50 at 28 with a 27 inch draw. easton says their 2117 are equivalent to a 400 spine min shoot well cut to 28.5 with a 145 grain point. i tune at 12 yards as that were I can reliable shoot tight groups (pretty darn new at this) they shoot with the fletched shafts no problem.


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## guyver (Jan 3, 2012)

My 45# hex6 limbs like 32" 7595 (.320?) with 270 grains upfront


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