# Does Ozonics really work?



## alldayhunter

Hi, AT followers! I want to know your thoughts on Ozonics! Does it really work? How do you know it works (but it has to be concrete evidence, no one knows what the deer is thinking) Is it safe? How many of you know what ozone is and what it does? I know where I stand on this product, but I want to see what more of the hunting community think about it.

Thanks


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## Binney59

I havent used it, but would be intersted to know others experience. Judging by your post it sounds like you already have an opinion- likely a negative one, and will be filling us in shortly?


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## jlh42581

i have never used the ozonics but I am on the log6 pro staff. Ozone is NOT safe to inhale. The log6 uses a sealed container to treat your clothes. You can also use it in a car or closet without being inside of it. Yes it eliminates odors on clothing. I dont know if id want it blowing out over me in a tree but there must be enough oxygen to balance it. What I dont understand is how its supposed to treat anything when its being dispersed outside of a closed in area. Thats not how ozone technology deodorizes from what I understand.


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## My2Sons

I hope their product works better than their advertising. They've had an invalid "Give away" banner on AT for a long time.
Anyway, they aren't unique. Search "ozone machine". There are many and are used in different industries.


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## WKP - Todd

I've been using them for 2 years now. Do they work? Absolutely - without a doubt! We have so much proof on-video now from all our guys using them and what-not. Just remember, the industry in-general is very "tied-in" with the scent elimination $$$$. They won't tell you carbon clothing, sprays, all that other stuff has been scientifically disproven against animals noses. They'll try to disprove Ozonic's because there is just alot of $$$ at stake. With that being said, Ozonic's works. Give it a try - if you don't believe it works Ozonic's offers a 100% money-back guarantee! They are the only ones out there that can back their product up against the nose of a whitetail I can assure you!


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## jlh42581

WKP - Todd said:


> I've been using them for 2 years now. Do they work? Absolutely - without a doubt! We have so much proof on-video now from all our guys using them and what-not. Just remember, the industry in-general is very "tied-in" with the scent elimination $$$$. They won't tell you carbon clothing, sprays, all that other stuff has been scientifically disproven against animals noses. They'll try to disprove Ozonic's because there is just alot of $$$ at stake. With that being said, Ozonic's works. Give it a try - if you don't believe it works Ozonic's offers a 100% money-back guarantee! They are the only ones out there that can back their product up against the nose of a whitetail I can assure you!


maybe you could show it at work in some of your videos. i dont think ive ever noticed it in one. if im wrong, please link me to it.


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## trebor69

Ozone does indeed kill odor causing bacteria and such.

But it most definitely is not the safest thing one could use.

Ozone has been used in water filtration a long time. We used on on aquariums many many years ago and the dangers of it
'leaking' out into the house were known even then and precautions had to be taken.

I don't know how well ozone works on manmade/synthetic type odors.

But I do seem to remember that it can degrade rubber and some plastics?
If so it may damage things like boots.

I would definitely recommend people read up on the dangers of ozone use so they are aware of the potential
side effects of using it for odor control.


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## alldayhunter

WKP - Todd said:


> I've been using them for 2 years now. Do they work? Absolutely - without a doubt! We have so much proof on-video now from all our guys using them and what-not. Just remember, the industry in-general is very "tied-in" with the scent elimination $$$$. They won't tell you carbon clothing, sprays, all that other stuff has been scientifically disproven against animals noses. They'll try to disprove Ozonic's because there is just alot of $$$ at stake. With that being said, Ozonic's works. Give it a try - if you don't believe it works Ozonic's offers a 100% money-back guarantee! They are the only ones out there that can back their product up against the nose of a whitetail I can assure you!


When I was asking for concrete evidence, I was talking about testing the product using sound science which means employing the scientific method in order to investigate the effectiveness of the machine. Hunting videos are by no means a scientific method. There are far too many variables and for one you are not taking into consideration the individualism of the animal itself. Deer, like humans have different personalities and will act differently in given situations. I have heard this a number of times now about how the proof is in the hunting videos, but until you can back this with a sound scientific experiment it is nothing more than a false claim. 

Jlh42581, is spot on in his analysis! Ozone is not safe! It is an oxidizing agent, which you DO NOT want to breathe. Think about this, all smells come from organic compounds and ozone oxidizes the compounds to eliminate the smell. The human body is also made up of organic compounds, therefore ozone will also oxidize you. No oxidizing agent is safe to be exposed to! Jay Gregory from The Wild Outdoors has said that "it is safe in the types of doses we are using it at", however, according to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in order to effectively eliminate odor causing chemicals, bacteria and other pathogens, ozone would have to be produced at concentrations that exceed the public health standards that are deemed immediately dangerous to life or health. So basically, Ozonics machines are doing one of two things; they are either eliminating your scent and exposing you to dangerous levels of ozone or they are completely ineffective because they are not generating enough ozone. One more thing to consider is that the ozone is being produced in an open environment. As already stated by Jlh42581 above, the ozone is just going to blow away and move around in the environment, not giving you the ozone blanket that Ozonics claims on their website.


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## Binney59

And there it is. 

Once again, I have no experience with the product but also think there is something to it. Seems silly to come on to a hunting board and ask for evidence for a product working- especially when you are convinced that it isnt legit to begin with (or legit but not safe). It is doubtful that someone is going to come on here and copy and paste peer reviewed research or the proof you are looking for since it is a hunting board and not a science forum.


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## alldayhunter

I agree. The problem is, consumers aren't always going to get accurate information from the companies themselves. I just wanted to see how many hunters on here have had the wool pulled over their eyes and provide a little bit of information so that maybe my fellow hunters will do a little research and possibly protect themselves and their families from products like this.


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## Sterling Archer

I'm just wondering how you "scientifically prove" anything related to scent when it comes to deer. It seems most of the proof in this field is, well, in the field. I actually have no stake in this conversation, I don't own one and likely won't But if I find it gives me a distinct advantage, it will be through the recommendations of my friends or family. Not an ad, or a paid personality.


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## trebor69

Binney59 said:


> And there it is.
> 
> Once again, I have no experience with the product but also think there is something to it. Seems silly to come on to a hunting board and ask for evidence for a product working- especially when you are convinced that it isnt legit to begin with (or legit but not safe). *It is doubtful that someone is going to come on here and copy and paste peer reviewed research or the proof you are looking for since it is a hunting board and not a science forum.*


I dunno how much research went into these type of products but the information should be available upon request from any Manufacturer/Representative/Seller. If they won't...or can't because there is no information to give....what does that say about the product?

Here is a quote from a Ozonics website:


> WHY USE OZONE?
> 
> Ozone is a safe, but powerful oxidizing agent, that can sanitize biological products and kill bacteria. Ozone has 150 percent of the oxidizing potential of chlorine and twice the oxidizing potential of bromine. Unlike the dangers associated with chlorine and bromine, ozone is a safe, naturally occurring compound that can be recognized as the sweet, fresh smell after a rain shower.
> 
> Ozone is present in the earth’s atmosphere to purify the air we breathe. However, it has also been used in other capacities, including:
> 
> • Purifying a large amount of our nation’s drinking water.
> • Bacteria removal and operating room sterilization in hospitals.
> • Smoke and mold removal from fire damaged buildings.
> •Air purification in some of the nation’s best hotels, restaurants and health-conscious homes to remove pollen and dust.
> •With the HR 200/150, ozone is now available to hunters for a more enjoyable and productive hunt.


Here is a quote from a similar products website:


> * While high concentrations of ozone in air may sometimes be appropriate in these circumstances, conditions should be sufficiently controlled to insure that no person or pet becomes exposed. Ozone can adversely affect indoor plants, and damage materials such as rubber, electrical wire coatings, and fabrics and art work containing susceptible dyes and pigments (U.S. EPA, 1996a).


150% stronger than chlorine
2x stronger than bromine
harmful to indoor plants
damages rubber and electrical wire coating

But it is a safe naturally occurring compound with a sweet fresh smell.

It does kind of sound like they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.

At least the second products page does warn to make sure people and pets are not exposed.


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## Toonster

I purchased a Hunter X ozone generator 2 years ago. I had been trying to justify buying it to my wife when I had the perfect opportunity to use it after my German Shepherd got sprayed by a skunk. The Pro shop that I buy most of my gear from had took in a Moxy scent eliminating system,and put it to the test, after thoroughly testing the Moxy they determined that it wasn't worth the Money because the unit only eliminated certain scents. When they tested the Hunter X, it eliminated all scents!!!! These are the same ozone generators that the hotel and auto detailing industry have been using for decades to eliminate smoke and Odors from rooms and automobiles. When I received my Hunter X I took it out, plugged it in locked the cat and dog in the garage, and when I came home 3 hours later the smell was gone. Yes ozone is not safe to breath and doe's degrade rubber!!! I put my Hunter X in a 4 x 6 Well cargo trailer with my clothes and back pack and don't wash my clothing but a few times a year. (Obviously I wash it when It get bloody or Soiled) My brother has his in his basement and puts it in a ground blind and it works flawlessly!!! From what I read about Ozone is that it falls harmlessly to the ground when the unit is not in operation. My clothing smells like it was left out in a thunderstorm when I head to the woods!!! (Except it's dry!!!!) I have never had scent control issues with with or without the Hunter X, but I wash my clothing a hell of a lot less!!! The owners of my pro shop and the other pro's working there use the Hunter X ozone generator when they go out West hunting Elk and Mule deer, run the unit in there truck with their clothing, because they don't have laundry facilities and say that it works flawlessly. If you have any questions I will answer them honestly because I have nothing to gain or lose!!! Toonster


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## jrip

Ozone will make anything smell like bleach, a side effect that you cant get around. Ozone will effectively "kill" any odors, but will also dry out any rubber or plastics exposed to it years before its expected life cycle ends, yes slowly but it will happen and you cant get around it either. I used Ozone for years for its antibacterial properties in my position as a industrial engineer (didnt have a choice).... yes Ozone will effectively kill any odor it comes into contact with. But Ozone effectively eats almost anything it comes into contacts with also.


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## N. Dawoods

Oxygen occurs naturally in the atmosphere as O2. Ozone occurs naturally in the atmosphere as O3, three oxygen molecules bound together. It is created every time lightning strikes, and is, in fact, that 'fresh' or 'clean' smell in the air after a thunderstorm. It kills odors by oxidizing them and breaking the odor molecules down into simpler molecules that do not register on olfactory organs.

Exposure to levels of ozone necessary to kill bacteria is not the same as exposure levels necessary to eliminate odors. (much less is required to kill odors) Do not conclude that it is unsafe because levels necessary to kill pathogens ARE NOT the levels necessary to break down odor molecules. Your equating the two is absurd. If you're going to advocate against it, do so honestly.



> "No oxidizing agent is safe to be exposed to!"


 The oxygen we breathe and depend on for our survival is an oxidizing agent. Are you purposefully engaging in useless hyperbole or did you just not realize this?


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## trebor69

N. Dawoods said:


> Oxygen occurs naturally in the atmosphere as O2. Ozone occurs naturally in the atmosphere as O3, three oxygen molecules bound together. It is created every time lightning strikes, and is, in fact, that 'fresh' or 'clean' smell in the air after a thunderstorm. It kills odors by oxidizing them and breaking the odor molecules down into simpler molecules that do not register on olfactory organs.
> 
> *Exposure to levels of ozone necessary to kill bacteria is not the same as exposure levels necessary to eliminate odors. (much less is required to kill odors) Do not conclude that it is unsafe because levels necessary to kill pathogens ARE NOT the levels necessary to break down odor molecules.* Your equating the two is absurd. If you're going to advocate against it, do so honestly.
> 
> The oxygen we breathe and depend on for our survival is an oxidizing agent. Are you purposefully engaging in useless hyperbole or did you just not realize this?


ok....but I sort of equate the two since bacteria are, in fact, the cause of many odors. It doesn't make any sense to use a product like this and only eliminate odors and not the bacteria that will just create more odor.

How much ozone exposure is required to kill most bacteria?
How much exposure to kill odors?

How much ozone is considered a hazard?
And lastly how much ozone are these devices making?


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## jrip

trebor69 said:


> ok....but I sort of equate the two since bacteria are, in fact, the cause of many odors. It doesn't make any sense to use a product like this and only eliminate odors and not the bacteria that will just create more odor.
> 
> How much ozone exposure is required to kill most bacteria?
> How much exposure to kill odors?
> 
> How much ozone is considered a hazard?
> *And lastly how much ozone are these devices making?*


The bleach smell should give you a hint.... much higher concentrations than you are exposed to in the wild.


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## bowhntng4evr

All it is, is an air purifier. They work real well. Ozone kills mold, smoke and pretty much any odor out there. I say, just clean your clothes in Atsko detergent and then use a smoker with wood chips from the area you hunt.


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## Muy Grande

jlh42581 said:


> maybe you could show it at work in some of your videos. i dont think ive ever noticed it in one. if im wrong, please link me to it.


You should probably rewatch "Ground Zero" which was released at the first of 2010. You obviously missed it.


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## Binney59

trebor69 said:


> ok....*but I sort of equate the two since bacteria are, in fact, the cause of many odors. It doesn't make any sense to use a product like this and only eliminate odors and not the bacteria that will just create more odor*.
> 
> How much ozone exposure is required to kill most bacteria?
> How much exposure to kill odors?
> 
> How much ozone is considered a hazard?
> And lastly how much ozone are these devices making?


I could be completely wrong on this, but I was under the impression that there are two different types of ozone units used for hunting (ozonics and log-6). I think that the ozonics unit is designed to be used in the field, and does not necessarily need to kill all the bacteria in the clothes while in the field, but just to create a scent free zone under your stand. A unit like the log-6 is used to kill odor in clothes and is used in a tote or confined area. Maybe there is no difference in the amount of ozone produced by either, but as was explained earlier, you might be able to get away with less ozone to create the "curtain" effect they advertise while in the woods. 

Keep the feedback coming, there has to be more people who have used this thing!


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## Quicksliver

Binney59 said:


> And there it is.
> 
> Once again, I have no experience with the product but also think there is something to it. Seems silly to come on to a hunting board and ask for evidence for a product working- especially when you are convinced that it isnt legit to begin with (or legit but not safe). It is doubtful that someone is going to come on here and copy and paste peer reviewed research or the proof you are looking for since it is a hunting board and not a science forum.


Yeah, never would have expected that.


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## N. Dawoods

trebor69 said:


> ok....but I sort of equate the two since bacteria are, in fact, the cause of many odors. It doesn't make any sense to use a product like this and only eliminate odors and not the bacteria that will just create more odor.
> 
> How much ozone exposure is required to kill most bacteria?
> How much exposure to kill odors?
> 
> How much ozone is considered a hazard?
> And lastly how much ozone are these devices making?


It is next to impossible to eliminate bacteria from your skin. The most effective method of _reduction_ is vigorous scrubbing with an antibacterial. (think surgical prep) An external device like the ozonics cannot eliminate any significant portion of the bacteria on your skin (other than exposed areas) because of dispersal and having to penetrate clothing passively.

Killing bacteria with ozone requires rupturing the cell wall or compromising metabolism/reproduction which involves enough ozone 'attacking' the organism to overwhelm it. Chemical conversion of an odor molecule can take as little as a single ozone molecule. It comes down to size. Relatively speaking, bacteria are HUGE compared to an odor molecule.

I would have to look up how much exposure is harmful (someone else be my guest) and I don't know what the output is. I would assume the output is adjustable.

Using ozone to eliminate scent from your clothing at home undoubtably works, just be aware that it can bleach your clothing if used excessively.


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## N. Dawoods

It doesn't make any sense to use a product like this and only eliminate odors and not the bacteria that will just create more odor.

Bacteria require food (your sweat and other secretions) to create odor. The most effective scent control involves keeping yourself CLEAN and minimizing sweat and foreign odor contact. Trying to eliminate all bacteria is a_ losing proposition_. There are too many of them, and they grow exponentially. The best you can hope for is to keep them under control and don't encourage their growth (sweat or lack of hygeine) They occur naturally on your body, and you're never getting rid of them. Neither is ozone.


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## WKP - Todd

On the next episode of Whitetails, Inc. "The Big Bucks of 2010 - Part 2" we will show you a 4-1/2 year old bucks reaction to the ozone coming from our blind. Its clearly shows that the buck smells what's coming from the ground blind. I'll let you know when it's up and running. If you can, check out the promotional video's we have done for Ozonic's. We have dozens and dozens of encounters with whitetails of every age class from multiple states. Many of them shown downwind with milk weeds streaming toward / over them. When a deer is walking down-wind, hits our scentline, stops - lifts it's nose, and keeps walking; I call that a success! And it happens over and over and over again. I never got snorted at the entire season while hunting 60+ days. That is the truth!


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## bowmanxx

I used the ozonics HR-200 this past fall. Does it work? Maybe in a controlled envirement. Here in Pa. where i hunt the wind shifts constantly and no matter how many times i adjusted it it would be blowing in my face alot. Started making me sick after a few weeks. So i sold it. Lost $250 on the deal. It works on clothing and gear in a closed closet or container but after useing it, its just not practical outdoors.


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## Buxndiverdux

I'm not a scientist. This ozone gadget rids your clothes of odors. But it does nothing to the source that creates the bacteria and odors. Your body is what stinks to a deer. If he can smell your body, he won't care that your clothes are clean. I guess you ozone guys are huffing ozone for your breath too right?


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## WKP - Todd

I've got (2) in a tree, one for me, one for my cameraman. The biggest difference we noticed from the old unit (HR-100) and the new ones (HR-200) is that on boost mode, it's putting so much Ozone out around you that even in shifting winds / dead winds they were still effective to the point we didn't get winded. The downward angle has more to do with it than anything, you have to put it on a hard downward angle as the winds start to die. It then forces the ozone over your position as-opposed to relying on the wind or gravity to do it's thing. With 32 team members using them, I have a rough idea of the effectiveness of them. They work if you use them properly, and alot of my guys weren't and still had really good success!


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## Binney59

Buxndiverdux said:


> I'm not a scientist. This ozone gadget rids your clothes of odors. But it does nothing to the source that creates the bacteria and odors. Your body is what stinks to a deer. If he can smell your body, he won't care that your clothes are clean. I guess you ozone guys are huffing ozone for your breath too right?


So I take it you dont bother washing your camo, spray with scent spray or anything else then since you cant get rid of all the scent you produce? By the sound of this post, scent free is an all or nothing thing to you. I think everyone who uses any scent elimination product realizes that it does not eliminate all odor on a person, but the goal becomes to minimize the scent that is in the field. 

ASstated before, I think the ozonics are less about eliminating scent in your clothes (although I am sure it could be used for that as well), and more for creating a scent free zone in the woods. Using this theory you could potentially be stinky, covered in bacteria or take a crap on your stand, but the ozone would create a "curtain" that basically keeps the scent from moving down wind. The little bit of reading I did on this product seemed to show that goal so when everyone is talking about bacteria on the body, I dont think that is the point here.


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## Buxndiverdux

Binney59 said:


> So I take it you dont bother washing your camo, spray with scent spray or anything else then since you cant get rid of all the scent you produce? By the sound of this post, scent free is an all or nothing thing to you. I think everyone who uses any scent elimination product realizes that it does not eliminate all odor on a person, but the goal becomes to minimize the scent that is in the field.
> 
> ASstated before, I think the ozonics are less about eliminating scent in your clothes (although I am sure it could be used for that as well), and more for creating a scent free zone in the woods. Using this theory you could potentially be stinky, covered in bacteria or take a crap on your stand, but the ozone would create a "curtain" that basically keeps the scent from moving down wind. The little bit of reading I did on this product seemed to show that goal so when everyone is talking about bacteria on the body, I dont think that is the point here.


What I am saying is that there is no way to be completly scent free unless you zip yourself up in an air tight bag. Try that and get back to me.


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## trebor69

WKP - Todd said:


> On the next episode of Whitetails, Inc. "The Big Bucks of 2010 - Part 2" we will show you a 4-1/2 year old bucks reaction to the ozone coming from our blind. Its clearly shows that the buck smells what's coming from the ground blind. I'll let you know when it's up and running. If you can, check out the promotional video's we have done for Ozonic's. We have dozens and dozens of encounters with whitetails of every age class from multiple states. Many of them shown downwind with milk weeds streaming toward / over them. When a deer is walking down-wind, hits our scentline, stops - lifts it's nose, and keeps walking; I call that a success! And it happens over and over and over again. I never got snorted at the entire season while hunting 60+ days. That is the truth!


I don't think anyone is questioning that ozone is effective at killing/reducing odor.

I think the real question is how much ozone are these things putting out and is it SAFE for you and your gear? (long term)

Ozone most definitely has the potential to be dangerous to you. The Log6 unit at least warns about exposure to humans and pets. And also warns that it can damage plants, rubber and electrical wires.

With the Ozonics unit you are intentionally placing yourself directly in the path of the Ozone.
Is it safe to do that?
If it is safe then please explain how you know. Do you know what levels of Ozone you are exposing yourself to by hanging this thing next to your head in a treestand or sitting next to it in a blind?


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## WKP - Todd

According to the FDA (I believe that's who) it is safe to be around / inhale. Just not in high levels, which if you have your unit's set up properly you won't. You guys need to remember that these machines have been used in Hospitals, Dentists offices, hotels, restaurants and bars for YEARS to purify the air. That "smell" in a doctors or dentists office is 03 (ozone), or a part of it is ozone. If they were dangerous there would be alot of issues within the medical industry!


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## bohmer2

WKP - Todd said:


> .....it's putting so much Ozone out around you that even in shifting winds / dead winds they were still effective to the point we didn't get winded. The downward angle has more to do with it than anything, you have to put it on a hard downward angle as the winds start to die. It then forces the ozone over your position as-opposed to relying on the wind or gravity to do it's thing.


I am not going to question your success at hunting even when using the Ozonics unit, however, if you truly are putting out so much ozone that you are covered in a shifting wind I would seriously be concerned about the health effects you are undergoing from Ozone exposure. I have been around water treatment systems that use ozone for bacteria control and the level of ozone at which it becomes harmful to humans is pretty low (as low as 0.12 parts per million can affect human breathing, that is twelve particles ozone for every 100 millions air particles, levels as low as 0.5 parts per million over 2 hours of exposure have created serious health risks). These levels are pretty easily achievable in an enclosed space like a home. However, to achieve those levels in an odor setting would be difficult unless the system was pumping out levels straight into your mouth. 

Now does Ozone control Odor well, here is a couple of bullets from the Environmental Protection Agencies Website on Ozone Generators:

* Some data suggest that low levels of ozone may reduce airborne concentrations and inhibit the growth of some biological organisms while ozone is present, but ozone concentrations would have to be 5 - 10 times higher than public health standards allow before the ozone could decontaminate the air sufficiently to prevent survival and regeneration of the organisms once the ozone is removed (Dyas, et al.,1983; Foarde et al., 1997).

* Even at high concentrations, ozone may have no effect on biological contaminants embedded in porous material such as duct lining or ceiling tiles (Foarde et al, 1997). In other words, ozone produced by ozone generators may inhibit the growth of some biological agents while it is present, but it is unlikely to fully decontaminate the air unless concentrations are high enough to be a health concern if people are present. Even with high levels of ozone, contaminants embedded in porous material may not be affected at all.

For those who would like more information from the EPA on the Subject of Ozone Generators: http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html

Just some food for thought.


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## bohmer2

Binney59 said:


> And there it is.
> 
> Once again, I have no experience with the product but also think there is something to it. Seems silly to come on to a hunting board and ask for evidence for a product working- especially when you are convinced that it isnt legit to begin with (or legit but not safe). It is doubtful that someone is going to come on here and copy and paste peer reviewed research or the proof you are looking for since it is a hunting board and not a science forum.


May not be a science forum but it is not hard to hit the EPA website and see what they have to say about ozone and ozone generators. http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html


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## Binney59

I get the EPA info, but no one is claiming that the ozonics work in the field by killing the bacteria (which would take an unsafe ammount), tehy work by covering up the smell of the bacteria (or anything else kicking off scent). I would be intersted to see the science behind how much ozone it would take to eliminate an odoer in the field (not kill the source). It seems to me like comparing the ammount of ozone to kill bacteria to the ammount it takes to cover up the odor is apple to oranges. I could be way off on my thought process of how ozone works, but this was at least my impression from reading their promotional material (surely not biased  )

As for the comment about zipping up in a plastic bag being the only way to be truely scent free, that was my point. Since you can't be completely scent free in the field, any tool- possibly including this one, would make sense to reduce what scent is present.


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## bohmer2

Binney59 said:


> I get the EPA info, but no one is claiming that the ozonics work in the field by killing the bacteria (which would take an unsafe ammount), tehy work by covering up the smell of the bacteria (or anything else kicking off scent). I would be intersted to see the science behind how much ozone it would take to eliminate an odoer in the field (not kill the source).


To reduce the odor the Ozone would have to convert the odor causing organic chemicals to something that is not an odor causing chemical (for example CO2 and H2O) but there would also have to be some reduction in the activity of the bacteria cuasing the odor (not necessary kill them but slow their metabolism). The issue with that those is a hunter is likely producing odor throughout his entire body, so the Ozonics would have to be position so that the ozone is dispersed across all of the downwind path of the hunter. 

In an enclosed space I can see where Ozone is effective in killing odor because you can continue to cycle the air and the Ozone effectively neutralizing more and more odor. In a treestand hunting situation I do not see this as being possible, in a ground blind it may be possible. Again, I think the heaving circling wind that WKP-Todd claimed was treated by an Ozonics is unrealistic. You would have to keep the chemicals in the air that are causing the odors and the ozone together long enough to be neutralized and I do not see this happening in an open air environment. Plus, Ozone is very reactive and there would be no way to control what chemicals present in the air the ozone reacts so how long would you have an active amount of ozone in your local area to react with your odors without having quantities of ozone present that create potential health concerns.


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## Binney59

I agree that in a closed space this becomes a much more effective method (also undoubtably less safe as well), but why would something have to reduce the activity of the bacteria causing the odor? As long as there is a continuous stream or "curtain" of ozone downwind from the stand, it seems plausable. Swirling winds make me skeptical that the ozone is doing the intended task and it is not just the wind swirling away from the deer. 

Using it in a ground blind should be very effective, but there is no way you will catch me in one pumped full of ozone. Maybe it is safe, but I would have my doubts. 

came across this on their website
http://ozonicshunting.com/Media_Center___Electronic_Scent_Control.html

if that is the right link it talks about the possibility of terrorists using this technology to defy the nose of explosive dogs and the FBI says this is possible. Not sure it apples to this discussion directly, but interesting none the less.


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## alldayhunter

WKP - Todd said:


> On the next episode of Whitetails, Inc. "The Big Bucks of 2010 - Part 2" we will show you a 4-1/2 year old bucks reaction to the ozone coming from our blind. Its clearly shows that the buck smells what's coming from the ground blind. I'll let you know when it's up and running. If you can, check out the promotional video's we have done for Ozonic's. We have dozens and dozens of encounters with whitetails of every age class from multiple states. Many of them shown downwind with milk weeds streaming toward / over them. When a deer is walking down-wind, hits our scentline, stops - lifts it's nose, and keeps walking; I call that a success! And it happens over and over and over again. I never got snorted at the entire season while hunting 60+ days. That is the truth!


It is plausible for these devices to work, but the underlying issue is that you are still breathing it in and ozone is horrible for you! I love killing big bucks just like the next guy, but it is not worth the decrease in lung function! Not to mention, I recently contacted Ozonics and asked them for the technical information like how much ozone is being produced by these machines and their efficiency over a given period of time and they wouldn't give me the numbers for "business reasons". I don't know, seems pretty shady to me. All I know is, I'm not exposing myself to ozone.


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## alldayhunter

WKP - Todd said:


> According to the FDA (I believe that's who) it is safe to be around / inhale. Just not in high levels, which if you have your unit's set up properly you won't. You guys need to remember that these machines have been used in Hospitals, Dentists offices, hotels, restaurants and bars for YEARS to purify the air. That "smell" in a doctors or dentists office is 03 (ozone), or a part of it is ozone. If they were dangerous there would be alot of issues within the medical industry!



You have to be out of your mind if you think ozone is safe to be around/inhale! The FDA/EPA/other government agencies set limits of exposure to ozone but in no way do they say it is safe to inhale. The bottom line is that ozone is a toxic gas and harmful to you and anything it comes into contact with, even at very low concentrations. 

What you apparently aren't aware of WKP-Todd is that even though ozone generators are used in other applications they are used very differently. When used for decontamination in Hospitals and such, the areas that are being treated with ozone are sealed so people and animals are not exposed to the ozone. And just because some restaurants or offices have little ozone generators on the wall does not make them safe or effective. 

Which brings me to the next point, in no way shape or form is ozone "purifying the air". It does not filter out particulates, it does not remove harmful gases, it does kill pathogens (at the levels used in home air purifiers), and it most certainly does not "remove" the chemicals that are causing the smells to begin with. All ozone does is react/oxidize the odor causing chemicals which renders them undetectable to the human nose. Look up what most odor causing compounds are and you'll find that a great deal of them are aldehydes, for example cinnamaldehyde (cinnamon flavor and smell), vanillin (vanilla flavor and smell), benzaldehyde (cherry flavor and smell), butyraldehyde (sweaty feet or goat smell), etc. All ozone does is change the chemical nature of these compounds, and sometimes it changes them enough that they no longer smell. The chemicals that caused the odor are still there for you to be exposed to, you just can't smell them. So, can we all please stop saying ozone "purifies the air"!

Comparing the use of ozone for scent removal/covering in the hunting cannot be compared to using ozone in hospital decontamination, water purification, and applications where no human contact is involved, apples and oranges. As far as comparing it to other "air purifiers", in my opinion it cannot be done either. I don't see people sitting under/next to the purifiers bathing/breathing in the ozone for hours at a time in restaurants, bars, hotels, etc. And I'd be willing to bet that most people don't even know the ozone generators are there, if they did I'm sure there would be a few unhappy people. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here but I don't understand how some people don't get the point that ozone is dangerous to be around, no matter what concentration! I guess Ron White said it best "You can't fix stupid"!


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## N. Dawoods

alldayhunter said:


> You have to be out of your mind if you think ozone is safe to be around/inhale! The FDA/EPA/other government agencies set limits of exposure to ozone but in no way do they say it is safe to inhale. The bottom line is that ozone is a toxic gas and harmful to you and anything it comes into contact with, even at very low concentrations.
> 
> What you apparently aren't aware of WKP-Todd is that even though ozone generators are used in other applications they are used very differently. When used for decontamination in Hospitals and such, the areas that are being treated with ozone are sealed so people and animals are not exposed to the ozone. And just because some restaurants or offices have little ozone generators on the wall does not make them safe or effective.
> 
> Which brings me to the next point, in no way shape or form is ozone "purifying the air". It does not filter out particulates, it does not remove harmful gases, it does kill pathogens (at the levels used in home air purifiers), and it most certainly does not "remove" the chemicals that are causing the smells to begin with. All ozone does is react/oxidize the odor causing chemicals which renders them undetectable to the human nose. Look up what most odor causing compounds are and you'll find that a great deal of them are aldehydes, for example cinnamaldehyde (cinnamon flavor and smell), vanillin (vanilla flavor and smell), benzaldehyde (cherry flavor and smell), butyraldehyde (sweaty feet or goat smell), etc. All ozone does is change the chemical nature of these compounds, and sometimes it changes them enough that they no longer smell. The chemicals that caused the odor are still there for you to be exposed to, you just can't smell them. So, can we all please stop saying ozone "purifies the air"!
> 
> Comparing the use of ozone for scent removal/covering in the hunting cannot be compared to using ozone in hospital decontamination, water purification, and applications where no human contact is involved, apples and oranges. As far as comparing it to other "air purifiers", in my opinion it cannot be done either. I don't see people sitting under/next to the purifiers bathing/breathing in the ozone for hours at a time in restaurants, bars, hotels, etc. And I'd be willing to bet that most people don't even know the ozone generators are there, if they did I'm sure there would be a few unhappy people. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here but I don't understand how some people don't get the point that ozone is dangerous to be around, no matter what concentration! I guess Ron White said it best "You can't fix stupid"!


What you can't seem to grasp is that the EPA is not the final arbiter of safe ozone levels. Your consistently ignorant hyperbole (ozone is unsafe at any level?)(dangerous to be around, no matter what concentration?) has ruined any credibility you may have had. You purposefully have equated EPA exposure levels with "not safe to be exposed to, period". How did you make that leap of illogic? Is constant, unlimited exposure to ozone a good idea. nope. But it's not radio active either. Your chicken little bit isn't making your case. 

You want to see how idiotic some of the EPA 'exposure' levels are, look up phosphoric acids classification. Then read the ingredients on a can of Coke.


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## trebor69

Ozone does purify air. It does so by 'changing the chemical nature' of things. No it does not physically filter out things but just like you said allday it changes them.

Ozone is also quite capable of killing living things with enough dosage and dwell time. We used to use them to filter aquarium water. They oxidize organic matter in the water including bacteria and parasites that infect fish. It was often said that if you could smell it it was too much. Most people now feel I think that ozone is not worth the risk and there are better ways. (UV light being one)

If ozonics was indeed contacted and refused to tell how much ozone these things generate I think that says a lot. 

Allday do you have copies of those emails you could show us here?

bohmer2 I agree with you. In an outdoor setting with the ozone free in the breeze I doubt you would get much of an effective odor kill. And like WPK said in order to get it to work you have to sit directly in the path of the ozone.

I dunno but I would like to see the companies selling units like this to 'lay people' ...many of whom probly have no idea ozone has the potential to be dangerous...provide some technical data on ozone, its dangers and just how much their product is producing.


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## jclaws1

I had a buddy from texas come and hunt with last fall and he brought one with him.I sat in the same tree the whole day and he had it hanging over his head so there was no way it was getting on us.I think the concept was that our scent was blowing down wind just like the ozone was.We had a number of deer get down wind of us and only one acted like they smelled something,but even it didnt spook.I dont know if the ozonics was the reason or not but it sure looked like it.Im still not going to buy one though.I dont buy into scent away products anymore.I do have some scent lok clothes but they dont work.I just try to play the wind and if i get busted the deer wins that day.


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## alldayhunter

N. Dawoods said:


> The oxygen we breathe and depend on for our survival is an oxidizing agent. Are you purposefully engaging in useless hyperbole or did you just not realize this?


Nature has evolved to take advantage of oxygen. You're right, it is an oxidizing agent. It oxidizes Fe2+ to Fe3+ to form rust. Last time I checked humans aren't made of iron so we should be okay. 

Life has evolved on this planet to utilize oxygen. In order to use oxygen we need it to be somewhat reactive otherwise the hemoglobin in our blood wouldn't be able to bind the oxygen we breathe.


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## N. Dawoods

If ozonics was indeed contacted and refused to tell how much ozone these things generate I think that says a lot.

I'm not suprised a private company refused to divulge proprietary info to an anonymous person on the phone or in an email. If I spent a pretty penny on R and D, molds, payroll, marketing, etc.. I would be pretty careful about who I divulged that info to as well. If ozonics has done any efficiency testing of their design, and have designed the unit to put out just enough ozone to be effective, why would they divulge that info to their competitors by publishing it? Or giving it out to random people who contact them? They have to protect their investment. There is nothing shady about it. If you ask Coca Cola for their recipe you'll get the same response. Are they shady?


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## N. Dawoods

alldayhunter said:


> Last time I checked humans aren't made of iron so we should be okay.


hemoglobin: : an iron-containing respiratory pigment of vertebrate red blood cells that consists of a globin composed of four subunits each of which is linked to a heme molecule, that functions in oxygen transport to the tissues after conversion to oxygenated form in the gills or lungs, and that assists in carbon dioxide transport back to the gills or lungs after surrender of its oxygen 

Iron is THE element our body uses to transport oxygen. When was the last time you checked? Our bodies are exposed to oxidizing agents all the time in the atmosphere. And yes, we have evolved biochemical and biomechanical means to deal with them. Including naturally occoring ozone.
Your repeated assertion that any exposure to ozone at any level is dangerous is nonsense. There is undoubtably a limit beyond which exposure is not safe. Primarily, people with weakened lung function to begin with and the elderly are susceptible. Healthy adults using the ozonics unit in an _unenclosed_ environment should not have anything to worry about with responsible use, as long as they are not putting their nose in the exhaust stream and inhaling deeply. (Why anyone would?)
I don't personally use the unit, and won't. Not because I believe it is unsafe. I just don't want to pack that bulky unit around when I can spray down with scent eliminating sprays that accomplish the exact same thing, chemically.


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## alldayhunter

N. Dawoods said:


> What you can't seem to grasp is that the EPA is not the final arbiter of safe ozone levels. Your consistently ignorant hyperbole (ozone is unsafe at any level?)(dangerous to be around, no matter what concentration?) has ruined any credibility you may have had. You purposefully have equated EPA exposure levels with "not safe to be exposed to, period". How did you make that leap of illogic? Is constant, unlimited exposure to ozone a good idea. nope. But it's not radio active either. Your chicken little bit isn't making your case.
> 
> You want to see how idiotic some of the EPA 'exposure' levels are, look up phosphoric acids classification. Then read the ingredients on a can of Coke.


The EPA isn't the know all end all of information on ozone but they are a great source to get an idea of the dangers. You'll never convince me that ozone is safe. Ozone is in fact a STRONG oxidizing agent, thus making it dangerous even at very low concentrations. Will it kill you at low concentrations, probably not, but can it effect your health, absolutely!

This is a blurb from the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety website. Its not just our government who thinks ozone is unsafe. Feel free to check out some of their information. 

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/ozone/health_ozo.html

"What are the long term health effects of exposure to ozone?

A small number of studies examining the potential effects of long-term occupational exposures to ozone have reported headache, irritation of the nose and throat, chest constriction and lung congestion in exposed workers. Human population studies indicate that people living in communities with high background ozone levels have experienced a greater decrease in lung function over 5 years than people living in communities with lower background levels.

These studies suggest that long-term exposures to ozone may result in impaired lung function. These reports are consistent with animal studies which also indicate that long-term exposure to ozone can impair lung function and cause structural changes to the lungs.

Based on animal evidence, exposure to ozone may increase susceptibility to bacterial infections of the respiratory system." 

I don't know about you but I'd rather err on the side of caution when it comes to my health. Especially when I'm in control of what my body is exposed to.

As far as the phosphoric acid comparison goes, apples to oranges. You can't compare ingestion to inhalation, especially when you're talking about gases. If you think it is so safe I ask you to go find some concentrated phosphoric acid, stick your hand in and see how long your skin lasts. Since you don't seem to know about basic biology/chemistry I'll give you a lesson in acidity an pH . In case you don't know, the acid in your stomach is well, an acid. In fact, your stomach is highly acidic with a pH between 1.5 and 3.5 (of course the actual value is going to vary because your body will regulate how much acid is needed when its being used versus at rest). The pH of coke is lets say between 2 and 4 (most references have it at 3.5ish). So, you aren't introducing anything your body can't handle there. The point is you have no idea what phosphoric acid is nor what it does in your body. 

What is safe and not safe is hard to define sometimes. What I do know is that ozone is not safe to breathe. At very low enough levels your body can "handle" being exposed to ozone but it still does damage and if small amounts of damage are done for a long period of time, well, that can add up to significant problems after a while. If you want to hear something really wild, water is toxic at a certain point. Drinking enough pure water will kill you. Your body needs electrolytes to function and when pure water is ingested it strips your body of electrolytes and once you rid yourself of enough of them your body ceases to function. Anyway, way off topic.


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## alldayhunter

N. Dawoods said:


> hemoglobin: : an iron-containing respiratory pigment of vertebrate red blood cells that consists of a globin composed of four subunits each of which is linked to a heme molecule, that functions in oxygen transport to the tissues after conversion to oxygenated form in the gills or lungs, and that assists in carbon dioxide transport back to the gills or lungs after surrender of its oxygen
> 
> Iron is THE element our body uses to transport oxygen. When was the last time you checked? Our bodies are exposed to oxidizing agents all the time in the atmosphere. And yes, we have evolved biochemical and biomechanical means to deal with them. Including naturally occoring ozone.
> Your repeated assertion that any exposure to ozone at any level is dangerous is nonsense. There is undoubtably a limit beyond which exposure is not safe. Primarily, people with weakened lung function to begin with and the elderly are susceptible. Healthy adults using the ozonics unit in an _unenclosed_ environment should not have anything to worry about with responsible use, as long as they are not putting their nose in the exhaust stream and inhaling deeply. (Why anyone would?)
> I don't personally use the unit, and won't. Not because I believe it is unsafe. I just don't want to pack that bulky unit around when I can spray down with scent eliminating sprays that accomplish the exact same thing, chemically.


I'm aware that hemoglobin contains iron and that oxygen binds to the hemoglobin. The point I was trying to make is that iron rusts (oxidizes) in the presence of oxygen and since we aren't made of metallic iron that can rust its not harmful to us.


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## Toonster

Just want to Clarify the use of my ozone generator. The Ozone generator doesn't take the place of taking scentless showers and maybe using some sort of cover scent or attractant. I simply use mine to deodorize my hunting clothing and boots!!! I would not recommend sitting in a ground blind with a ozone generator!!!! My ozone generator has a timer built into it and it has never bleached my clothing, the only problem i've seen is my Primo's bow holster had the leg strap degraded.


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## Binney59

Toonster said:


> Just want to Clarify the use of my ozone generator. The Ozone generator doesn't take the place of taking scentless showers and maybe using some sort of cover scent or attractant. I simply use mine to deodorize my hunting clothing and boots!!! I would not recommend sitting in a ground blind with a ozone generator!!!! My ozone generator has a timer built into it and it has never bleached my clothing, *the only problem i've seen is my Primo's bow holster had the leg strap degraded*.



For curiosity sake, how many times do you think you have used it to cause some degrading of the strap? Was wondering just how hard it is on clothing and other equipment.


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## alldayhunter

trebor69 said:


> Allday do you have copies of those emails you could show us here?



Here is the response I got from Ozonics when I asked them about their product.

Have you done any studies on the amount of ozone that is being produced? Ozonics - The simple answer is yes. For our products there are two basic questions; while both questions relate to our ethics, one is specific to safety and the other to effectiveness. The two questions are "Does it Work" and "Is it safe?".
How are these studies conducted? Ozonics - We utilize ozone detectors and formulate testing methods similar to those expressed in the California EPA standards and the Federal Standards for Ozone safety. Watch for more on this subject on our website over the next few months.

What are the results in terms of production of ozone and efficiency? Ozonics - We do NOT publish the quantity of Ozone for business reasons, but it meets federal safety standards. See the OSHA and EPA websites. We design our products to meet the Federal Safety Standards for human contact with Ozone. Regarding efficiency, we offer a full 100% money back guarantee. NO ONE in the scent control category in the hunting industry does so except Ozonics. We have hundreds of hours of video with animals directly downwind that do not "bust" and many are on our website. Also on our website is a news story from FoxNews quoting an FBI test of our first generation product. We were unaware of this test which validated our technology. There is no question that Ozone reacts with and fractures human odor molecules. At question for the hunter is how to ensure his/her odor molecule is contacted by ozone. This is our mission, we've done it and we plan to get better and better and doing so.

Any information that you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Ozonics - hopefully this has answered your questions. Feel free to give us a call if not at 979-285-2400 and ask for Dennis.

My best for GREAT hunting,
Dennis for Ozonics

I think the consumer has the right to know how much ozone these units produce. I can see Ozonics keeping the design and what not a secret because they don't want people copying their designs but the amount of ozone being produced should not be proprietary.


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## N. Dawoods

Thank you for making my point for me, which you missed, apparently. I was commenting on the absurdity of maximum allowable exposure levels put out by the EPA. You are_ exposed _to phosporic acid when you drink it. You are also exposed when you touch it. Two different things occur, but from an uninformed (laymans) reading of the permissible exposure limits you would conclude that ingesting phosphoric acid would be unwise. And yet we do, every day. 
I don't need chem or biology lessons from someone that makes blanket statements without facts to back it up, and who stretches the bounds of reasonable conclusion to fit an agenda. After your swing and miss with iron in the human body, you're going to give me lessons? Really? I hope you don't teach.
The acid present in your stomach is hydrochloric acid, and yes I already knew that. And I know exactly what phosphoric acid is and I know exactly what it does in the body. I can write the chemical equations for you, but they are a bit beyond the scope of this board. So is the logarithmic pH scale and a discussion of acids and bases, and ionic disassociations. So I won't bother. If you want to keep making unreasonable statements, go right ahead. I'll continue to point them out to you and the board. Moderate your stances and properly qualify your assertions, and I won't have to keep pointing out your mistakes. You're obviously intelligent enough to argue persuasively with correct info, so why do you find it necessary to engage in hyperbole, assumption and muddy conclusions? Maybe because you're the one here with an agenda?


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## Toonster

I would say I ran my Ozone Generator 30 times @ 3 hours each time. So maybe 90 total hours. The holster is still usable but the rubber in the strap lost it's elasticity!!!! The benefit in the ozone generator is I wash my clothes alot less!!!


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## Campbell

I own an ozone generator and have used it for a couple seasons off and on to treat my hunting clothes and sometimes my gear. I use it inside a large plastic tub with the cover on. I don't own one of the models marketed to deer hunters. They seemed expensive and to me a couple years ago seemed somewhat unproven. I did an internet search and ended up with a model designed to remove odors from smelly basements and cars. I paid around $35 on ebay. The clothes come out smelling fresh, like after a thunder shower. I can't prove it worked and can't prove it didn't. I use all of the commonly used scent prevention and scent reduction techniques commonly used by most of us who are detail obscessed whitetail hunters. The ozone treatments were in addition to those. I will not be using it anymore though because I ruined some very expensive pieces of clothing with it. The clothing that I treated the most that had any elastic in it has lost the elasticity permanently. This included some layering pieces, underwear, socks, pants with some elastic waistbands. In addition, I think some garments got stiff feeling and lost their supple-ness. A high price to pay for something that did not neccesarily prove effective for me. That was my personal experience. Anyone else see stuff like that?


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## N. Dawoods

Ozone WILL degrade rubber and plastics. It is not good for Gore Tex or similar membranes. It should be used sparingly to treat clothing when washing is not available. I personally would not use it every time I wash my clothes.


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## WKP - Todd

I treat all my clothing and equipment between hunts in a closet I call the "Ozone Containment Chamber". I've been doing this everyday for two years (durring hunting season). I have noticed nothing on my clothing.

One comment that someone said -that Ozonic's does nothing that a spray won't do. Well, I can assure you, if you had a continuous spray from above your head durring a hunting situation, you may have an argument. Until then, Ozonic's is the only thing capable of beating an animals nose because it is CONTINUOUSLY RUNNING! You can go out with the stankiest clothing in the woods and it doesn't matter because this machine elminates all odors, even the peroxide in your sprays that an animal can smell. I swear to god I used to have worse reactions from ground scent when I used to spray my boots compared to doing nothing! You can do what you want, but watch the video footage and it will show you many-many examples of the effectiveness of Ozonic's. Again, it has a money-back guarantee - so if you want to try it (to disprove it), do it and let us know your results!


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## bohmer2

WKP - Todd said:


> Until then, Ozonic's is the only thing capable of beating an animals nose because it is CONTINUOUSLY RUNNING! You can go out with the stankiest clothing in the woods and it doesn't matter because this machine elminates all odors, even the peroxide in your sprays that an animal can smell.


I understand you are a supporter of the Ozonic's and a believer in the effectiveness, but exaggerated statements like this discredit your position to some degree.


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## e-manhunt

WKP - Todd said:


> On the next episode of Whitetails, Inc. "The Big Bucks of 2010 - Part 2" we will show you a 4-1/2 year old bucks reaction to the ozone coming from our blind. Its clearly shows that the buck smells what's coming from the ground blind. I'll let you know when it's up and running. If you can, check out the promotional video's we have done for Ozonic's. We have dozens and dozens of encounters with whitetails of every age class from multiple states. Many of them shown downwind with milk weeds streaming toward / over them. When a deer is walking down-wind, hits our scentline, stops - lifts it's nose, and keeps walking; I call that a success! And it happens over and over and over again. I never got snorted at the entire season while hunting 60+ days. That is the truth!


The same thing happens with me and carbon clothing, but everybody says it doesn't work. Carbon isn't 100% effective, but I've never had a deer that got downwind of me blow or run after hitting my scent trail --which happened regularly without it.


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## trebor69

N. Dawoods said:


> If ozonics was indeed contacted and refused to tell how much ozone these things generate I think that says a lot.
> 
> I'm not suprised a private company refused to divulge proprietary info to an anonymous person on the phone or in an email. If I spent a pretty penny on R and D, molds, payroll, marketing, etc.. I would be pretty careful about who I divulged that info to as well. If ozonics has done any efficiency testing of their design, and have designed the unit to put out just enough ozone to be effective, why would they divulge that info to their competitors by publishing it? Or giving it out to random people who contact them? They have to protect their investment. There is nothing shady about it. If you ask Coca Cola for their recipe you'll get the same response. Are they shady?


Now you are just starting to sound like you work for the company.

If a company sells a product that produces a dangerous compound....and they refuse to tell me how much of that compound I am exposing myself to if I use their product. Yer dam right I will call them shady.

I did not ask them for their blueprints, schematics and a parts list. I asked how much ozone they produce. If that is 'proprietary information' and they won't divulge that information then as far as I am concerned they can descent their bung with it.

The thing may be perfectly safe to use....who the hell knows. But if the manufacturer is not willing to establish and guarantee consumer safety
it really says a lot about them.

And it takes more than a blurb on a website proclaiming Ozone as a natural compound that smells like fresh rain. That sounds like some average Joe that overclocked an Oreck air filter tryin to get rich by inventing the next best thing.

It really would not be hard at all for companies that make products like this to research and tell people what is considered a safe exposure to ozone...and then to say what their unit produces so people would know they are safe.


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## trebor69

Just read Alldays emails above.

It sounds like they claim to have tested it and that it meets federal safety standards.

OK....anybody got the 'federal safety standards' handy?


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## bohmer2

trebor69 said:


> It really would not be hard at all for companies that make products like this to research and tell people what is considered a safe exposure to ozone...and then to say what their unit produces so people would know they are safe.


But if they did release this information a qualified expert in air dispersant modeling would be able to exhibit the limit of this technologies effectiveness!!! You could calculate the effective distance at which it would work and approximate volume of air it could effectively treat. And as a manufacturer I am sure they fear such a study or calculation being released as it would effectively remove the anecdotal evidence of someone like WKP-Todd who uses the systems and has video showing its "effectiveness". 

I would interpret what Ozonics is essentially saying by it complies with safety standards is that the volume of Ozone created is below what the EPA identifies as a level of concern for human exposure. I would further interpret their unwillingness to divulge the volume of ozone their system produces as an indication that it is a pretty low number.


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## Wild Outdoors

Just my 2 cents, I think everyone knows what a skeptic about fooling a whitetails nose I am, Pretty much if the deer get down wind of us we get busted, sometimes worse than others and I think Thermals have a lot to do with that..I cant speak about the science of OZONICS but I will say this, I used one ALL Season and it was the single most effective thing I have ever used, (please keep in mind I used the HR 200). We had deer time and time again get downwind and try and get us and they end up giving up and going about there buisness, I was absolutely blown away by the effectiveness, both out of tree stands and ground blinds. I know that OZONICS has been approved by OSHEA and the EPA and Im pretty sure OZONICS wouldnt sell something that could hurt people and there company.
In a nutshell, Im a big believer and will not hunt without them again!....Unless of course an arm starts growing out of my forehead! lol ....Honestly I think McDonalds, pop, fat, sugar and all the crap I eat will probably kill me before OZONICS does!

You will se OZONICS a bunch in our upcoming episodes in the fall!

JMHO
Jay


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## alldayhunter

Wild Outdoors said:


> Just my 2 cents, I think everyone knows what a skeptic about fooling a whitetails nose I am, Pretty much if the deer get down wind of us we get busted, sometimes worse than others and I think Thermals have a lot to do with that..I cant speak about the science of OZONICS but I will say this, I used one ALL Season and it was the single most effective thing I have ever used, (please keep in mind I used the HR 200). We had deer time and time again get downwind and try and get us and they end up giving up and going about there buisness, I was absolutely blown away by the effectiveness, both out of tree stands and ground blinds. I know that OZONICS has been approved by OSHEA and the EPA and Im pretty sure OZONICS wouldnt sell something that could hurt people and there company.
> In a nutshell, Im a big believer and will not hunt without them again!....Unless of course an arm starts growing out of my forehead! lol ....Honestly I think McDonalds,
> pop, fat, sugar and all the crap I eat will probably kill me before OZONICS does!
> 
> You will se OZONICS a bunch in our upcoming episodes in the fall!
> 
> JMHO
> Jay



The fact that Ozonics works is plausible! However, it probably doesn't work as well as you think at eliminating scent. Whether or not it masks your scent just enough to fool a deer is another story, but eliminate your scent, I doubt it. Now, if it works like they say it does it is going to have to be producing a fairly large amount of ozone which is toxic to you. Unlike the Ozonics R&D, whom I have talked to, I know the science and I know the chemistry that ozone is capable of doing. Despite what they say about the source of the ozone contributing to its efficacy, is completely bunk! Ozone is ozone is ozone. It doesn't matter where it comes from. It is an oxidizing agent and toxic gas. Even in an outdoor setting, you are going to be breathing it in. Will it kill you? No, most likely not. Will it make an arm grow out of your forehead? No. But, you are at serious risk of a decrease in lung function among other things. Even at levels deemed safe by the OSHA/EPA, breathing ozone has been shown to have long term effects on your lungs, throat, noes, etc. I have watched countless episodes of The Wild Outdoors and I'm a fan of the show. One thing that I have noticed is that you often have your son Wyaat (Sorry if I misspelled his name) in stand or blinds with you. Now, my question is, do you really want him breathing in toxic gases? I would hope not. I understand that you are not going to come on here and bash Ozonics and that you will more than likely praise them like you have done. However, money makes people do a lot of things with cloudy judgment and sponsorship money is huge in the hunting industry, so I'm really not surprised. I'm also pretty sure that Ozonics is more worried about their bottom line than the health of the consumers.


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## alldayhunter

I would just like to add that I do not have an agenda here. I'm an avid bowhunter just like everyone else on AT. I do not work for a competitor to Ozonics and I especially do not work for some health organization. I merely just wanted to generate a thread to raise awareness about the product so that people will have the information that Ozonics seems to have strategically left off of the box and their website.

Thanks


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## jclaws1

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html


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## Blanchje

jclaws1 said:


> http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html


That works for me.


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## trebor69

Wild Outdoors said:


> Just my 2 cents, I think everyone knows what a skeptic about fooling a whitetails nose I am, Pretty much if the deer get down wind of us we get busted, sometimes worse than others and I think Thermals have a lot to do with that..I cant speak about the science of OZONICS but I will say this, I used one ALL Season and it was the single most effective thing I have ever used, (please keep in mind I used the HR 200). We had deer time and time again get downwind and try and get us and they end up giving up and going about there buisness, I was absolutely blown away by the effectiveness, both out of tree stands and ground blinds. I know that OZONICS has been approved by OSHEA and the EPA and Im pretty sure OZONICS wouldnt sell something that could hurt people and there company.
> In a nutshell, Im a big believer and will not hunt without them again!....Unless of course an arm starts growing out of my forehead! lol ....Honestly I think McDonalds, pop, fat, sugar and all the crap I eat will probably kill me before OZONICS does!
> 
> You will se OZONICS a bunch in our upcoming episodes in the fall!
> 
> JMHO
> Jay


Jay....if this is really Jay....in all fairness you are being paid to like the product by its manufacturer correct? The logo is right on the bottom of your homepage.

Your opinion of the product...no matter how valid...is going to be taken with a grain of salt. A side effect of all the marketing getting crammed
down consumers throats is skepticism. This year Antler King...next year Evolved Habitats...this year Log6...next year ozonics etc etc.

I like the show....but really....could you please capitalize ozonics one more time...I think some might have missed the fact that you support them lol


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## bohmer2

Wild Outdoors said:


> I know that OZONICS has been approved by OSHEA and the EPA and Im pretty sure OZONICS wouldnt sell something that could hurt people and there company.


Your support of one of your show's sponsor is merited for what it is however, I am going to copy a quote from the EPA website on Ozone generators:

" Several brands of ozone generators have EPA establishment number on their packaging. This number helps EPA identify the specific facility that produces the product. THE DISPLAY OF THIS NUMBER DOES NOT IMPLY EPA ENDORSEMENT OR SUGGEST IN ANY WAY THAT EPA HAS FOUND THE PRODUCT TO BE EITHER SAFE OR EFFECTIVE.

Please Note: EPA does not certify air cleaning devices. The Agency does not recommend air cleaning devices or manufacturers."

Now I am not sure what your sponsor has told you regarding their approval by the EPA but based on the above quote which can be found at the following link ( http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html) which has been provided multiple times in this thread, you should be able to conclude that in NO way has the EPA approved the Ozonics device. I think what may have been stated and what is shown on the Ozonics site (http://www.ozonicshunting.com/Media_Center___Electronic_Scent_Control_files/Ozonics FoxRelease.pdf) is that the system emits Ozone levels below the OSHA and EPA air quality guidelines of 0.1 parts per million for air.

Now the Fox News study is great publicity for Ozonics, after all if it works on drug or bomb sniffing dogs it must be great. However, without the details of how the tests were performed which I am just guessing did not involve someone with an explosive device sitting in a treestand while the Ozonics unit sits behind them blow Ozone across the bomb, I am still skeptic of the devices effectiveness.


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## Rothhar1

Simple answer no it does not work 100% nothing does in the feild . You all may want to realize that this another product that does produce some dangerouse chemical gas!


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## seanhunter

They work great and come with a free Cruncher.


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## Wild Outdoors

Well first of all yes this is jay, second of all I had NO association with OZONICS this past fall, yes this is a buisness, but fortunately I can choose who I am involved with. After using the units all fall I decided this was a product
I would share with my viewers. Are they going to be a sponsor from here forward, yes. I dont expect anyone to take my word for it, just like I didnt endorse there product without putting it thru the ringer this fall. You will just have to try it for yourself. All I can do is be honest with my viewers about what we use and why we use it, if that lends itself some credibility to the product than I feel honored, I'm not going to get involved or endorse a product I don't believe in.. Just a side note, I'm not a scientist or pretend to be an authority on the ills of this product, but from what I have read and understand my son and I are probably at more risk with our cell phones than I would like to be!
Jay


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## Muy Grande

I don't understand why you guys keep trying to jump on Jay and Todd. They relayed there experiences with the the ozonics and that is it. Sure, they are sponsored by them, but they aren't the manufacturer or lab guy who came up with the technology. They are like you and I, in the respect of just seeing or not seeing results in the field and basing their choice on that. I mean, come on guys. The units have a 100% money back guarantee. If you don't like it, return it. Then, you can come on here and say you tried it and it did not do the job. 

For the record, I do not own any ozone generators.


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## Rothhar1

Remember a bunch of hunters especialy the tv hunters swaring how scentloc worked 100% of the time if washed and bla bla bla .But now they are bailing like rats on a sinking ship to other clothing and scent control products sponsors that make the same type of outragous scent control claims


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## alldayhunter

Shouldernuke! said:


> Remember a bunch of hunters especialy the tv hunters swaring how scentloc worked 100% of the time if washed and bla bla bla .But now they are bailing like rats on a sinking ship to other clothing and scent control products sponsors that make the same type of outragous scent control claims


To be honest, just like scent lok, it is probably only a matter of time until Ozonics gets sued also.


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## perryhunter4

I have read through all of these posts and there were many valid points. I am not a user of one of these machines, but I have been doing a lot of research on them. I find it very funny, that there are many folks on here bashing the safety of these machines stating it could lead to health problems or even death. Well let me ask this? Can beer cause health issues, can cigarettes, can chew, can stress, can certain over the counter or prescription meds, and I could go on. I would bet some of the folks stating the health hazards of these items, have used one if not more than one of the items I list above. Bottom line, is we all make our own decisions and have our own opinions....some are willing to take the risk because of the benefits and some would not. That's life. Personally I feel the driver of this forum had a point to make out of the gate and was only on here to knock the product - so if you achieved what you needed, good job. Seems to me, that if these products were that "lethal" - everyone buying one would have to sign a release or waiver stating they understand the implications. I have not seen or heard of that anywhere.


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## Goatboy

Yes


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## N. Dawoods

alldayhunter said:


> To be honest, just like scent lok, it is probably only a matter of time until Ozonics gets sued also.


When are you hiring your lawyer and filing suit?


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## 1HoosierHunter

I'm with Perry Hunter on this. I simply jumped on here to continue researching Ozonics. Though I found several great points, I also found a dead horse being beaten to dog food! I am nowhere near a status of Jay Gregory but after being self-employed the very last thing I ever wanted to do was to back a knowingly "bad" or "unproven" product. For 2 reasons...my name and money. Pretty important if I want to make a living longer than 6mos. Some of you have commented about how everyone backed Scent Lok/Blocker when it came out and how Ozonics is just another pocket lining trend. Well, maybe? One thing for sure tho...a heck of a lot of deer were harvested by Average Joe's wearing carbon clothing and a lot more to come. Does carbon clothing work? A little, yes, I believe "it helps". Will Ozonics help, will it give me that added edge? Yes, I believe it will. In the stand, I feel like I will use this product. In the blind, I'm not so sure just yet, jury still out on that. One solid fact is that all if us are out to achieve 1 common goal and that is to hunt. Hunt ethically and be successful at it. Arguing only divides us. To each their own and Good Luck this year!


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## bowman72

Back from the dead!! Anyone still using one of these units?


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## ILLbucknut

bowman72 said:


> Back from the dead!! Anyone still using one of these units?


Jay and Todd


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## WVohioFAN

ILLbucknut said:


> Jay and Todd


:set1_rolf2:


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## SteveB

1HoosierHunter said:


> Will Ozonics help, will it give me that added edge? Yes, I believe it will. In the stand, I feel like I will use this product. In the blind, I'm not so sure just yet, jury still out on that.



That's funny - it could help in a blind because it is a more controlled environment. 
Over you head in the open - never. Like spitting in the lake thinking it will rise - just too diluted to possibly work even a little.


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## S.Wells

Wow a lot of debate going on in this thread!! 

Ok I use the Ozonics, and the log6 unit. And I do believe they work.

Now I use these products with the rest of my scent eliminating process. Proper hygiene with scent eliminating soaps and sprays, I also use silver anti bacterial clothes as a first layer and Scent lok clothing outer layer. I also take Chlorophyll tablets to help reduce my odors. It is a long process.

Am I 100% scent free in my stand after all of this no probably not. Not even with the Ozonics running and be taking every known precaution to reduce odor. I mean I am a human and until I am no longer a human I am going to smell like one. 

But I would say I have reduced these odors by 80%. Which means there is 80% less human odor floating they the breeze toward a bucks nose. 

Really does anyone know how strong of a human odor it takes to spook a deer?

Try this take something that smells put a small fan in front of it and walk down wind until you can't smell it anymore. Measure how far after you have stopped. Now add 80% more of that smell product and do the test again. You'll get the point. Reducing your odor will make it easier to get close to deer. Which for bowhunters is very important!


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## ChuckA84

SteveB said:


> That's funny - it could help in a blind because it is a more controlled environment.
> Over you head in the open - never. Like spitting in the lake thinking it will rise - just too diluted to possibly work even a little.


I was thinking the same thing about it being too diluted out in the open...then it hit me that its only a problem if you are cheap and only use 1 ozonics unit at a time. I harvested a nice buck in the open straight downwind from me that i never would have gotten if i didnt have all 12 of my units mounted to the tree and rails of my stand. The buck hung up just outside of my comfortable range with my scent and the ozone blowing straight to him. He kept sniffing the ground for about 20 minutes and then he suddenly fell over like he passed out or something. Then i climbed down with my bow and walked up to 15 yards and put an arrow with a rage right between his eyes...complete passthrough. Thanks ozonics!


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## Timinator

I spent my entire adult life designing dispersion studies both in air and water. The few of you here that just bash this product because it can't work don't have a frigging clue what you're talking about. I absolutely guarantee an active ozone source will eliminate 1000x more scent than ANY scent-loc clothing can every hope to. The fact that ozone is heavier than "air" means with a unit over your head you're dropping/blanketing the ozone over your body's most concentrated scent field. A bit like spaying ants with a can of Raid. You point it down at an angle and hose them down. A few of them will escape to piss you off another day but for the most part, they all die. Being above you and fan aspirated, the unit blows the ozone past you before it sinks into your scent field. Unlike scent clothing, ozone can't not work. That's what it does. When you leave your clothes outside to keep them scent free, it's the ozone in the atmosphere that's doing that not magic.

Oh, and I don't even own an Ozonic's. I do use a small ozone generator on my clothes between hunts in a hanging, zippered clothes closet.


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## racknspur

I would be willing to bet if asked, most big buck hunters would sacrifice 5, maybe even 10 years of life for a wall full of P&Y-B&C bucks. Just throwin it out there...


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## bartman

$400.00:-(


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## OctoberAssassin

Anyone not using 4 units pointed in all 4 direction above their head is drastically handicapping their success in the woods


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## UpnorthCraig

One of the big misconceptions out there is that ozone is not safe to inhale. Do you walk outside on a sunny day? If you do, you are inhaling large amounts of ozone. But like anything else, too much is not good for you. Here's an example to think about. Can we live without water? Obviously no, but too much is not good for us. Ozone works the same way. Without it we would die, too much of it we would die. 

Now the question begs to be answered...does the Ozonics machine produce to much ozone? If you are in an enclosed room with NO ventilation I would assume it did. But if that were the case, you wouldn't need ozonics because your stink wouldn't get out anyway. In a tree or in a pop up blind, there is no way you will breath too much ozone. Is Ozonics safe??? Absolutely...


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## UpnorthCraig

Dangerous chemical gas??? You need to understand nature Shouldernuke. Without ozone in our lives...we would all die. Naturally created by the sun. By the way, ozone is O3... In scientific terms...that's 3 parts oxygen. When it's 3 parts oxygen, it becomes very unstable and tries to get rid of one oxygen atom. When it touches something it will release the one oxygen to become O2 (stable) and the thing it touches now becomes Oxidized. 

No dangerous gases my friend.


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## buckeyboy

UpnorthCraig said:


> Dangerous chemical gas??? You need to understand nature Shouldernuke. Without ozone in our lives...we would all die. Naturally created by the sun. By the way, ozone is O3... In scientific terms...that's 3 parts oxygen. When it's 3 parts oxygen, it becomes very unstable and tries to get rid of one oxygen atom. When it touches something it will release the one oxygen to become O2 (stable) and the thing it touches now becomes Oxidized.
> 
> No dangerous gases my friend.


You could not be more wrong... who told you this? why do you think they issue ozone alert days.. cause the chit aint good to breath...


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## Tarz

Ozone does eliminate scents/odors. No question. The discussion can continue on whether it is safe or worth the effort, like virtually every substance too much can harm you. Drinking to much water can kill you. But no doubt it works completely. 

Now the real question why ozone when there is a much easier, less expensive and more natural and effective way to kill scent?? I am not selling any product, just a regular bow hunter when a background in chemistry and this field.

Naturally occurring, ozone (H2O3) exist in the upper atmosphere, but is unstable and loses oxygen molecules to become H2O(1) = water and H2O2 = hydrogen peroxide. This is exactly what falls as rain, and why after a rain everything smells fresh again. Because it is, the H2O2, which is hydrogen peroxide, is also unstable and quickly loses it's extra oxygen molecule to become water H2O; however, in the process that one oxygen molecule, creates oxidation, which literally burns germs and bacteria (odor). Not just covering it, but completely destroying any scent.

So, the point is, as my family and I have done for 20 years, simply get a 2 oz spray bottle, fill it with 3% hydrogen peroxide (from a Drugstore for $1) when you get to your tree and stopped sweating, spray your clothes, hat, hands and face (close your eyes). In 30 seconds you will have the best scent eliminator available

I personally use 35% hydrogen peroxide and dilute it with distilled water, just in case the store bought brand put in added stabilizers. Remember also, hydrogen peroxide is natural and safe in the right strength, the Earth makes it, your body makes it, we breathe it everyday, actually need it to live. But also 35% concentrate can burn the skin and 90% concentrate is rocket fuel.


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## jlh42581

Old thread

Ive stopped using my log6 on my hunting clothing. I still have it, I still use it just not on hunting clothes. It works great for things like wool coats that cant be washed after a night out. Or, take the stink out of a car.

I did have it eat elastic in some of my equipment.

Might spray my boot soles once in a blue moon, hell I am not even sure why I do that though because my brain tells me it doesnt work. Is it engrained in my head from 10 years of thinking I needed to do it?

Ozone will take out stink, scent control for me is like pissing in the wind.


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## longnkrnch

I agree hunting video advertisements can be edited to present any outcome of product dedired, and at the cost of these things I dont want to get burned for 300+bucks


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## jjtrain44

too much $$$ for me to put into a "magic machine" i'll stick to washing in baking soda costs me $.70 a box for the good stuff.:wink:


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## See4miles

WKP - Todd said:


> I've been using them for 2 years now. Do they work? Absolutely - without a doubt! We have so much proof on-video now from all our guys using them and what-not. Just remember, the industry in-general is very "tied-in" with the scent elimination $$$$. They won't tell you carbon clothing, sprays, all that other stuff has been scientifically disproven against animals noses. They'll try to disprove Ozonic's because there is just alot of $$$ at stake. With that being said, Ozonic's works. Give it a try - if you don't believe it works Ozonic's offers a 100% money-back guarantee! They are the only ones out there that can back their product up against the nose of a whitetail I can assure you!


More BS right here than my BS filter could absorb. Good lord!


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## IABowhunter4903

Binney59 said:


> So I take it you dont bother washing your camo, spray with scent spray or anything else then since you cant get rid of all the scent you produce? By the sound of this post, scent free is an all or nothing thing to you. I think everyone who uses any scent elimination product realizes that it does not eliminate all odor on a person, but the goal becomes to minimize the scent that is in the field.
> 
> ASstated before, I think the ozonics are less about eliminating scent in your clothes (although I am sure it could be used for that as well), and more for creating a scent free zone in the woods. Using this theory you could potentially be stinky, covered in bacteria or take a crap on your stand, but the ozone would create a "curtain" that basically keeps the scent from moving down wind. The little bit of reading I did on this product seemed to show that goal so when everyone is talking about bacteria on the body, I dont think that is the point here.


Exactly!!!!! If anyone did any sort of research or knew anything about how they work they would realize it has nothing to do with eliminating scent from your body or clothing, and rather has everything to do with BLANKETING the scent your body AND clothes produce!!!!


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## IABowhunter4903

N. Dawoods said:


> What you can't seem to grasp is that the EPA is not the final arbiter of safe ozone levels. Your consistently ignorant hyperbole (ozone is unsafe at any level?)(dangerous to be around, no matter what concentration?) has ruined any credibility you may have had. You purposefully have equated EPA exposure levels with "not safe to be exposed to, period". How did you make that leap of illogic? Is constant, unlimited exposure to ozone a good idea. nope. But it's not radio active either. Your chicken little bit isn't making your case.
> 
> You want to see how idiotic some of the EPA 'exposure' levels are, look up phosphoric acids classification. Then read the ingredients on a can of Coke.


Hahaha!!! Got him that one... A can of coke is probably 5x as dangerous as hunting in a treestand with an ozonics above hour head! Love it!


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## newview

IABowhunter4903 said:


> Hahaha!!! Got him that one... A can of coke is probably 5x as dangerous as hunting in a treestand with an ozonics above hour head! Love it!


Do you realize this thread was started Feb. 14th 2011? Happy Valentines by the way!!


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## HuntingNow

No one will ever be able to prove that it contributed negatively or positively to a hunting situation.


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## useyourbow

Things to consider. With everyone of these Ozonics threads the same pattern rises. 
Those who have used it says it works. 
Those who have never used it says it doesn't work. 
Just saying.


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## IL-Gutpile

I love all of the idiots that bash ozonics and say they could never work when they have never tried it. I especially love the posts saying you have to use 4-12 units for them to work.
If you don't think they will work fine...save your money move on. But for people that have never tried it and bash it anyway....who are you trying to convince, other people or yourself?

I don't own ozonics...I bought an ozone generator and treated all of my clothes and gear last year and I believe it made a big difference. I also talked to friends that used them and they all tell similar stories.

If you don't want to buy one...fine...but unless you have experience with one, move along....


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## IABowhunter4903

newview said:


> Do you realize this thread was started Feb. 14th 2011? Happy Valentines by the way!!


Sure do... Didn't know there was a time limit on threads!


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## caramia

If you have serious attack, you should not use ozone generators.
As I recall from one of my past article, ozone may irritate your respiratory system and cause asthma attack.


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