# Five X



## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)




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## Celeriter (Mar 20, 2016)

Ooo. How are they? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)




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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Celeriter said:


> Ooo. How are they?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Long, black, straight, and tough. Surface finish is smooth. The group was achieved (not by me) with stock SS points. Groups very marginally higher than X10, but the comparison is moot because the spines are different. Needs more time for evaluation. So far so good.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Multiple spine or parallel? A/C or carbon? $$$?


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## acy (Oct 22, 2011)

Where can you get these? Are they expensive?


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## hammer08 (Aug 28, 2012)

Looks interesting — https://www.fivics.com/ProductsArrows/Five-X


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## hotshot42 (Jan 23, 2019)

awesome arrows!


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## hotshot42 (Jan 23, 2019)

are you looking to sell it, or only show it?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

hotshot42 said:


> are you looking to sell it, or only show it?


Are you looking at buying some?


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## Skropi (Jan 1, 2019)

Hmmm, too little info about them on the net. Are they parallel or tapered shafts?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Parallel. I measured. Straight as an arrow.....


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

An undoubtedly $ new arrow and no fletch lines? Fail. 

Come on, mfrs, how hard can it be?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Exactly. How hard can it be to draw 3 lines....


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## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

Skropi said:


> Hmmm, too little info about them on the net. Are they parallel or tapered shafts?


I asked the this at their booth in Vegas. They told me multi-line was only good for hunting.  I rapidly made my way to the next booth...

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk


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## ceratops (May 17, 2017)

The linked blurb boasts 'inside diameter 3.15 mm'

Are these arrows thinner than other carbons out there? For example, .166" being a common inner diameter in, for example, VAPs... .166" = 4.22 mm

??


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Looks like a new paint job on arrows that were essentially Nano Pros. The old paint job looked almost identical to the Nano Pro and unfortunately painting 3 lines on the new version was too much effort. I expect the CX components are interchangeable with the Fivics. 

I asked Lancaster about the these arrows perhaps 2 years ago? The response was they were having supply issues. Shortly thereafter, Lancaster began purging everything Fivics.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

theminoritydude said:


> Exactly. How hard can it be to draw 3 lines....


36 lines...


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## stevebster (Feb 5, 2018)

For all carbon arrows these shafts seem a lot heavier.

Carbon express nano-pro weight from Lancaster web site.

800 (5.6 gpi), 750 (5.9 gpi), 700 (6.0 gpi), 650 (6.2 gpi), 600 (6.7 gpi), etc.
Five X 
800 (10.33 gpi), 750 (11.59 gpi), 700 (11.6 gpi), 650 (12.51 gpi), 600 (12.51 gpi), etc.

just about twice as heavy.


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## straat (Jan 22, 2009)

I presume weight is listed in g(rams) for a full shaft, so a 400 spine would weigh 8.7 grains per inch. Same as a nano pro xtreme.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

stevebster said:


> For all carbon arrows these shafts seem a lot heavier.
> 
> Carbon express nano-pro weight from Lancaster web site.
> 
> ...


Could you point us to the source of the GPIs?

I just measured my bareshaft FOC at 16.7% with 120gr points. If the GPI was double that of CX Nano Pro, something doesn't add up.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)




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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Seattlepop said:


> 36 lines...


Yes. For a dozen. Or 72 lines if you buy 2 dozens.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Could someone name a South Korean pro archer who draws lines on his or her shaft?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

midwayarcherywi said:


> Looks like a new paint job on arrows that were essentially Nano Pros. The old paint job looked almost identical to the Nano Pro and unfortunately painting 3 lines on the new version was too much effort. I expect the CX components are interchangeable with the Fivics.
> 
> I asked Lancaster about the these arrows perhaps 2 years ago? The response was they were having supply issues. Shortly thereafter, Lancaster began purging everything Fivics.


"These arrows" from 2 years ago? The Five X is like, a couple of weeks old.


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## stevebster (Feb 5, 2018)

I used the chart from the link you sent. Same as straat included. I assumed this was GPI. If it was the weight of the shaft, well then my assumptions was off. Sorry.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

I didn’t post any links to the arrow charts.

Also, the numbers do not seem to have come from Fivics, because I don’t think they are in the habit of posting GPI’s. The korean archery community isn’t into technical specifics, so the manufacturers don’t see a need to burden their end users with some these numbers.


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## Jelli (Mar 12, 2016)

theminoritydude said:


> Could someone name a South Korean pro archer who draws lines on his or her shaft?


 All of them? X10s don’t come with fletching lines.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

The weights listed on that chart on page one is in grams, you would need to convert to grains then divide by length to get GPI. I


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

theminoritydude said:


> Exactly. How hard can it be to draw 3 lines....


But what awould they do for me that uses wraps?


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

calbowdude said:


> The weights listed on that chart on page one is in grams, you would need to convert to grains then divide by length to get GPI. I


Ok. Still the figure comes up close to nano pro. Maybe he made an error during the conversion.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Robert43 said:


> But what awould they do for me that uses wraps?



You just gave me a marketing idea.

Wraps. With THREE PRINTED LINES AH AH AH AH AH AH!


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Jelli said:


> All of them? X10s don’t come with fletching lines.




Hey dude, there’s a South Korean training trip coming up, you interested? You get to shoot and shop and eat with these ladies


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

These aren't re-branded Nano Pro Extremes like they had a couple years ago. NPX ID = .118, Five-X ID = .124.


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

stevebster said:


> For all carbon arrows these shafts seem a lot heavier.
> 
> Carbon express nano-pro weight from Lancaster web site.
> 
> ...


 I just did a quick conversion of grams to grains, etc. to get the equivalencies. These Fivics, per the chart above and the CE Nano stats quoted in another post, are 4% lighter at 600 spine, and 10% lighter at 800 spine.

Based on a 30" shaft ---

"Standard" means typical 4.22mm/.166" carbon shaft made in China under dozens of brand names

Standard 600 spine: 213 grains
CE Nano 600 spine: 201 grains
Fivics 600 spine: 193 grains

Standard 700 spine: 195 grains
CE Nano 700 spine: 180 grains
Fivics 700 spine: 168 grains

Standard 800 spine: 174 grains
CE Nano 800 spine: 168 grains
Fivics 800 spine: 174 grains


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

I hope this formats OK from excel.

.......Spine	In Di OD	thick	gpi
Fivics	600	3.15	4.97	1.82	6.4
Nano 600	3.00	4.83	1.83	6.7
Regular	600	4.22	5.74	1.52	7.1

Fivics	700	3.15	4.82	1.67	5.6
Nano 700	3.00	4.67	1.67	6.0
Regular	700	4.22	5.60	1.38	6.5

Fivics	800	3.15	4.73	1.58	5.0
Nano 800	3.00	4.57	1.57	5.6
Regular	800	4.22	5.50	1.28	5.8


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## MontiArnold (Feb 9, 2017)

It sounds like a great Arrow. I hope the price is not so (CX) extreme


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Over here it’s cheaper than X10.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

I’m using the 600 spine. My actual measurements come in at 4.85mm for the OD.


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## MontiArnold (Feb 9, 2017)

A set of x10 are about 380 €.
A set of CX Nano Pro X-Treme are about 10-15 € less.
What price would we have to expect from Fivics?


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## straat (Jan 22, 2009)

Their previous high-end arrow, XQ-3.15, which was a bit thinner and lighter but had worse weight and spine tolerances compared to the Five-X, went for about the same as X10 or NPX in europe.


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## dunninla (Oct 17, 2018)

theminoritydude said:


> I’m using the 600 spine. My actual measurements come in at 4.85mm for the OD.


 right, but that's not what they've published on their website regarding the Five X.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Well, my measurement of 600 puts it at 4.85mm. Never shot a straighter arrow. Could be the tungsten. Could be just dumb luck. Didn’t even make any setting adjustments.

A dozen shafts plus some SS points and pins cost about USD400. Not sure about the price of tungsten points...... I’ll get back to you guys. But yeah I’m doing 28.5” shaft to nock groove with full Titan EX setup (wood core, not my choice but who cares) at 40lbs. 18 strand FF, 70”. Using my torqueless grip. Ok I’m staying with these shafts until they come up with a better one.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

theminoritydude said:


> Using my torqueless grip.


Sorry to derail this but I haven't heard anything about your project lately. Any updates you'd be willing to post in this or a new thread?


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## Porthos (Oct 21, 2018)

look good


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Maggiemaebe said:


> Sorry to derail this but I haven't heard anything about your project lately. Any updates you'd be willing to post in this or a new thread?


Not at the moment. I need to consult someone first. But I'll release it eventually.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

You said it's parallel shaft but is it a multi spine shaft like the npx?


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

stick monkey said:


> You said it's parallel shaft but is it a multi spine shaft like the npx?


Based upon the page for the arrow on Fivics' web site, I'm betting it's not multi-spine. I would think they'd advertise something like that.

https://www.fivics.com/ProductsArrows/Five-X


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## wiatrog (Dec 27, 2014)

stick monkey said:


> You said it's parallel shaft but is it a multi spine shaft like the npx?


No. I had a typo in my earlier post, but I asked them about this at their booth in Vegas and they said multi-spine is only for hunting...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## red^avalon (Jun 29, 2016)

:thumb:


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## tbferrari3 (Jun 27, 2018)

Looks awesome!


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## Celeriter (Mar 20, 2016)

Kim Je Deok used these shafts this past weekend at the Youth World Champs. The Fivics Ten Pros were used as well, by Yoem Hyejeong. Impressive shooting. I wonder if we will see more people use them in the future on the world stage?


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

Sorry to bring this one back from the dead!

Now that the FiveX shafts have been in use for a few years and CX has killed off their recurve line does anyone have more to add for reviews, thoughts, accuracy of spine chart, etc.?

I'm trying to find a close to X10 performance arrow for a less than X10 price tag. Is this shaft it or should I just jump into the X10 club?


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

Maggiemaebe said:


> Sorry to bring this one back from the dead!
> 
> Now that the FiveX shafts have been in use for a few years and CX has killed off their recurve line does anyone have more to add for reviews, thoughts, accuracy of spine chart, etc.?
> 
> I'm trying to find a close to X10 performance arrow for a less than X10 price tag. Is this shaft it or should I just jump into the X10 club?


Of the two people (oddly both British) not using the X10 at Tokyo, one was Tom Hall with the FiveX. So they're definitely still out there, though I didn't notice any in use in UK competitions last summer. There were several people putting in good scores using Skylon paragon/preminems. I put a friend's paragons through my spine tester and they had the same spine tolerance as an X10, however the frequently shot ones were noticeably less straight (+-0.002", still good) than the rarely used ones ( a very impressive <0.001") despite only being shot into foam.


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

My Paragons were noticeably less straight when brand new and out of the tube. How much that impacts accuracy is up for debate - Beman Divas could be visibly not round and still shoot great. Paragon is a good budget arrow and it is thin. If you can’t afford X10 they are cheap and worth a shot.

Stretch


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## MooseisLoose (11 mo ago)

I just started shooting Skylon Preminens.

They were incredibly straight out of the box and weight was within 0.5 grains for the dozen. Have noticed no issues with quality and they're $160 USD per dozen. You can even get tungsten tips for them for $100 as opposed to the $240 Easton charges for the x10.

That's a dozen arrows with tungsten tips for 260 compared to nearly $700 for a comparable x10 setup.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks all! I will definitely look into the Skylon offerings as they are significantly less than the Easton arrows (and of course Easton has recently changed their line up too thus making these choices even more difficult). I am avoiding the $700 x10 leap as the arrows are for my 16 year old son. He's in top 3 in Canada and starting youth international competition but is definitely still growing (like 3 years or more left). Currently shooting 38-40 otf and 30" dl. I'm willing to spend the money for x10's if necessary but I'm struggling to believe that x10 is THE arrow for top youth archers.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

I guess I should have started a new thread titled High Value non-x10 Options... 😁


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Another +1 for paragon/preminens. I've personally had a great experience with them and own 6 dozen of them at different spines. I can speak to at least their weight variance which at 29.5inches fully built, there is only about a 2 grain variance between sets of 24 arrows. For my own shooting on BB/recuve, I think that's just fine for the price point. I like to support local and US companies, but it's really hard for me to justify shelling out $500+ for a dozen x10s when paragons are an option and Easton doesn't provide anything else as skinny and straight as paragons in that price range. I imagine if they ever do, it would cannibalize x10 sales so I doubt they would ever release anything like a paragon in a similar price bracket.

One thing I have heard many people complain about is the variance in the components which I think is true. Right now there is a huge shortage of paragon normal points (I don't like the bulge design, they are too pointy and bend easily / scratches the riser easily if you mis-load.) @Maggiemaebe if you do end up trying paragons, make sure you order some Skylon DLX pins for them, they are much better than the stock pins that come in the tube.


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## MooseisLoose (11 mo ago)

fango0000 said:


> I imagine if they ever do, it would cannibalize x10 sales so I doubt they would ever release anything like a paragon in a similar price bracket.


I honestly don't think so. If you consider who's going to buy X10s, they are likely an advanced archer or someone with enough money to not worry about cost.
When you think about who's going to look for affordable competition-grade 4mm shafts, it's a different market entirely. It'll be filled with intermediate-level archers or high level archers who just can't afford $700 for a dozen X10s.

Skylon is making money hand over fist because Easton is too dumb to realize they've left an entire market segment available for someone to grab. They think a low 600's fita archer is going to buy their avance shafts or the superdrive micro. I don't really get their logic. It's as though they believe the ACE is a "budget" shaft. A bit out of touch, but I'm glad there's someone else out there making target shafts.

Right now, in the target-grade recurve market there's probably more shafts to choose from than ever before. X10, ACE, Preminens, Five-X, cartel triple neos, black eagle revelations are all micro diameter arrows. If only carbon express hadn't been bought out we'd also have the nano to choose from.


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

Agree with the comments above re the DLX nock pins.

Personally I found the Paragons to be well inside tolerances for weight and same goes for the nocks and pins. Not so straight though. Maybe the Premiens worth the extra. I’m just smashing at 30m right now and was running out of old X10s, didn’t want to have to get used to a fatter shaft so Paragon was a good fit.

I’ve only had two minor issues.

1: I have had is points coming out when broken to 100 gr (SS point) there just doesn’t seem to be enough adhesion on the short shank. Never had an X10 point come out. (No, I am not super-gluing points in).

2: few of my shafts are not perfectly finished at the nock end. This is only visible once the pin is in. If I’d noticed sooner I would have cut a few mm off before cutting from the front. (Might still do that). Does not appear to affect the grouping.

To be honest, I think the X10 (or ACE) probably is THE arrow for top juniors at International level - at least that is what most competitors will be using. The Skylons are good value but they are not like for like (in my experience) but they might be good enough.

There are also lots of other tungsten options for X10 that are the same price or cheaper than Skylon tungsten. But yes £120 vs £360 is compelling.

Stretch


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## MrPillow (Apr 9, 2021)

Has anyone sampled the new Gas Pro Evo arrows? GAS PRO SHAFT EVO 3.2 | GASPRO VANES


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## bluedevil49 (Jun 22, 2012)

MrPillow said:


> Has anyone sampled the new Gas Pro Evo arrows? GAS PRO SHAFT EVO 3.2 | GASPRO VANES


Yes. I've been shooting them for the last 2 weeks.
They have a higher GPI than the Paragons/Preminens I was previously shooting so my sight marks are a little lower, but my groups in the wind are a little better at 90 and 70m

The pins are a little thicker, so they provide a little more protection, but also add a little more weight.

Early days yet, but gut feel (yeah, not very scientific) is that they are good, but still not on par with X-10's. Better than the Skylon's I was shooting.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on options! I really appreciate everyone's time 

He's shooting Nano SST's for this summer season (I bought some when LAS was clearing them out) so we should be good until mid-late summer when his DL increases. They aren't x10's but should be good enough for where he's at.

Sounds like some other companies have thankfully figured out that mid-line/priced arrows have a market with CX's exit so good on them to get some product out to market! I'll never out shoot his Nano's (I came into archery at 45) so I'll try some Skylon or GasPro products and maybe he'll shoot a couple of sets of Skylons too until the arrows become the only limiting factor.

It's funny how for (almost) everything in archery, you can't buy points. It sounds like x10's may be the one slight exception to that rule.


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## Ray.L (Apr 29, 2021)

Just a thought, but if your son is in top 3 and actively competing, have you tried contacting Easton or Fivics for a sponsorship? There's quite the discount on X10/FiveX once you're in.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

Ray.L said:


> Just a thought, but if your son is in top 3 and actively competing, have you tried contacting Easton or Fivics for a sponsorship? There's quite the discount on X10/FiveX once you're in.


It honestly hadn't crossed my mind as he's U18/Cadet and I didn't think any company would consider someone so young. I'll check into it and thanks for the thought!


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

bluedevil49 said:


> Yes. I've been shooting them for the last 2 weeks.
> They have a higher GPI than the Paragons/Preminens I was previously shooting so my sight marks are a little lower, but my groups in the wind are a little better at 90 and 70m
> 
> The pins are a little thicker, so they provide a little more protection, but also add a little more weight.
> ...


Are components listed for those shafts on their website - I couldn't find them. Was pleasantly surprised to see so many indoor point options for X7 and X23 shafts.


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## bluedevil49 (Jun 22, 2012)

Seattlepop said:


> Are components listed for those shafts on their website - I couldn't find them. Was pleasantly surprised to see so many indoor point options for X7 and X23 shafts.


Hi Seattlepop.
Yes, they are listed. Points and Pins

**Arrow update - I shot a 90/1440 on the weekend, badly. So badly that I was able to test the strength of the arrows v the steel target frame.

The end result was that the shafts survived but the points were quite blunt. Yes points. I managed to do it twice.


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## Maggiemaebe (Jan 10, 2017)

Sometimes you have to abuse your equipment a bit to have confidence that it will stand the test of time ! Good to hear that Gaspro isn't making junk shafts...these may be my next ones to try out.


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## bluedevil49 (Jun 22, 2012)

I would love to see Easton make a 3.2mm arrow out of the same carbon they use for the Avance. I'm sure they could, but maybe they won't as it might take customers away from the x-10.


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

bluedevil49 said:


> I would love to see Easton make a 3.2mm arrow out of the same carbon they use for the Avance. I'm sure they could, but maybe they won't as it might take customers away from the x-10.


It would also need to be under $200 a dozen. The ACE price has gotten absurd.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

fango0000 said:


> Another +1 for paragon/preminens. I've personally had a great experience with them and own 6 dozen of them at different spines. I can speak to at least their weight variance which at 29.5inches fully built, there is only about a 2 grain variance between sets of 24 arrows. For my own shooting on BB/recuve, I think that's just fine for the price point. I like to support local and US companies, but it's really hard for me to justify shelling out $500+ for a dozen x10s when paragons are an option and Easton doesn't provide anything else as skinny and straight as paragons in that price range. I imagine if they ever do, it would cannibalize x10 sales so I doubt they would ever release anything like a paragon in a similar price bracket.
> 
> One thing I have heard many people complain about is the variance in the components which I think is true. Right now there is a huge shortage of paragon normal points (I don't like the bulge design, they are too pointy and bend easily / scratches the riser easily if you mis-load.) @Maggiemaebe if you do end up trying paragons, make sure you order some Skylon DLX pins for them, they are much better than the stock pins that come in the tube.


I don't know which spines you're using, after hearing about bendy skylon points I bought stainless Easton X10 points with my 550 (4.84mm OD) paragon shafts. They fit wonderfully. The diameter of the point where it touches the carbon is 4.98 mm, so 500 and weaker have no exposed fibers. At the thinner spines you get up to a quarter mm shoulder but I've used a bit of extra hot melt to smooth the joint over on other shafts before. For 450 (5.04mm) and 400 (5.17mm) , the large barrel of the point (5.83mm max, 5.17mm 3mm away from the shaft) should be enough to protect the fibers from the target. 
What are the DLX pins like? I was only able to get stock pins and they were much harder to get a good glue joint than my ACEs. Anything other than a perfect layer of hot melt and they would "click" when I press on them as the fit is slightly too loose inside the shaft.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

I have also considered using the Easton x10 points and I think they only work for the stiffer paragon spines. The 800spine and weaker paragons are really really skinny and there's too much lip on the point/shaft area with x10 points for my taste. 

DLX pins are lightly knurled like a barbell or metal compound release knob. I find they also just have better tolerances so I don't encounter as many pins that fit too tight or too loose.


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## MooseisLoose (11 mo ago)

cerelestecerele said:


> I don't know which spines you're using, after hearing about bendy skylon points I bought stainless Easton X10 points with my 550 (4.84mm OD) paragon shafts. They fit wonderfully. The diameter of the point where it touches the carbon is 4.98 mm, so 500 and weaker have no exposed fibers. At the thinner spines you get up to a quarter mm shoulder but I've used a bit of extra hot melt to smooth the joint over on other shafts before. For 450 (5.04mm) and 400 (5.17mm) , the large barrel of the point (5.83mm max, 5.17mm 3mm away from the shaft) should be enough to protect the fibers from the target.
> What are the DLX pins like? I was only able to get stock pins and they were much harder to get a good glue joint than my ACEs. Anything other than a perfect layer of hot melt and they would "click" when I press on them as the fit is slightly too loose inside the shaft.


I've been shooting the same dozen preminens shafts with skylon points, never had one bend. Shot a few into kevlar and wood (by accident!).


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

UK_Stretch said:


> Agree with the comments above re the DLX nock pins.
> 
> Personally I found the Paragons to be well inside tolerances for weight and same goes for the nocks and pins. Not so straight though. Maybe the Premiens worth the extra. I’m just smashing at 30m right now and was running out of old X10s, didn’t want to have to get used to a fatter shaft so Paragon was a good fit.
> 
> ...


You wouldn't happen to know how straight your paragons are? Just bought a dozen and uncut 8 were within +-0.001" (preminems tolerance) and 4 were +-0.0015" (paragon tolerance). I'd been expecting them all to be from the "preminems reject pile". No idea if my case is usual or I got lucky. I may test my luck with the performa (+-0.006") next.

In case it's useful to others, here's the stats on my dozen, which have only been tested at 30m so far. 
I ignored the chart on the skylon website, which recommended 700-650 for 27" cut-to-cut and 43# and got 550 which tune perfectly with my uukha xcurve limbs. I'm using long stainless points which should make them stiffer than tungsten. They're a bit stiff with my "conventional" Samick extreme limbs but well within tuning range instead of several boxes too stiff, and tune about the same as my (few) 570 ACEs. 

Weight range was 0.2 grains for the dozen and average spine was within 0.012" for 10 with one stiff (-0.017") and one weak (+0.013") outlier. The stiff one doesn't group as a bareshaft at 30m but is fine when fletched so it's not really a problem. The spine variation _within_ each shaft of about 0.005" is better than my ACE (0.008") but worse than X10 (0.003"). Except for the two outliers, the range of spines _between_ shafts is on par with the ACE and X10.


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## tisbatman (Jul 4, 2019)

cerelestecerele said:


> I don't know which spines you're using, after hearing about bendy skylon points I bought stainless Easton X10 points with my 550 (4.84mm OD) paragon shafts. They fit wonderfully. The diameter of the point where it touches the carbon is 4.98 mm, so 500 and weaker have no exposed fibers. At the thinner spines you get up to a quarter mm shoulder but I've used a bit of extra hot melt to smooth the joint over on other shafts before. For 450 (5.04mm) and 400 (5.17mm) , the large barrel of the point (5.83mm max, 5.17mm 3mm away from the shaft) should be enough to protect the fibers from the target.
> What are the DLX pins like? I was only able to get stock pins and they were much harder to get a good glue joint than my ACEs. Anything other than a perfect layer of hot melt and they would "click" when I press on them as the fit is slightly too loose inside the shaft.


The paragon points I used around two years ago were really bendy. The ones they make now are a lot better. I didn´t have one bend so far and have been shooting them for around 6 months.


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

cerelestecerele said:


> I don't know which spines you're using, after hearing about bendy skylon points I bought stainless Easton X10 points with my 550 (4.84mm OD) paragon shafts. They fit wonderfully. The diameter of the point where it touches the carbon is 4.98 mm, so 500 and weaker have no exposed fibers. At the thinner spines you get up to a quarter mm shoulder but I've used a bit of extra hot melt to smooth the joint over on other shafts before. For 450 (5.04mm) and 400 (5.17mm) , the large barrel of the point (5.83mm max, 5.17mm 3mm away from the shaft) should be enough to protect the fibers from the target.
> What are the DLX pins like? I was only able to get stock pins and they were much harder to get a good glue joint than my ACEs. Anything other than a perfect layer of hot melt and they would "click" when I press on them as the fit is slightly too loose inside the shaft.


I’m shooting 450 and the X10 points are not sufficient diameter fo support the carbon. This is both SS X10 points and tungsten. I would not use a point that did not full cover the end of the shaft - especially in straw bosses.

The DLX pins just seem better made and more consistent and given how cheap they are I see no reason to use the basic. The knurled centre section also helps with bonding.

I have just gone back to uncut 120 SS parallel points. They are fine when unbroken. When I took the 100gr out they literally needed a wave through the flame and they fell out 

Stretch


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

cerelestecerele said:


> You wouldn't happen to know how straight your paragons are? Just bought a dozen and uncut 8 were within +-0.001" (preminems tolerance) and 4 were +-0.0015" (paragon tolerance). I'd been expecting them all to be from the "preminems reject pile". No idea if my case is usual or I got lucky. I may test my luck with the performa (+-0.006") next.
> 
> In case it's useful to others, here's the stats on my dozen, which have only been tested at 30m so far.
> I ignored the chart on the skylon website, which recommended 700-650 for 27" cut-to-cut and 43# and got 550 which tune perfectly with my uukha xcurve limbs. I'm using long stainless points which should make them stiffer than tungsten. They're a bit stiff with my "conventional" Samick extreme limbs but well within tuning range instead of several boxes too stiff, and tune about the same as my (few) 570 ACEs.
> ...


I have not tested mine mechanically - once they have points in, when you spin them, there is wobble on all of them. With an X10 there is wobble on none of them. That may come from the components or the shaft straightness.

It is worth saying that they are no worse than Beman Diva S used to be and they won pretty much everything. Group wise I don’t see any outliers (bare shafts or fletched) but I haven‘t shot long distance. Arrow plotting at 90m quickly shows up any issues in your quiver. At 30m the bareshafts (all 12) are all as close together as I am getting with fletched.

For me the chart says 450 which is the same as the Easton chart. I think an X10 is a little stiffer but that could just be because it is a little shorter so I can’t do a direct comparison and I’m guesstimating. My X10 are cut to tune at 44# and I am only shooting 42# (8 right at 30m)- worse on a less clean shot. The 1/4” longer Paragon is in the middle.

Stretch


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## MooseisLoose (11 mo ago)

UK_Stretch said:


> I have not tested mine mechanically - once they have points in, when you spin them, there is wobble on all of them. With an X10 there is wobble on none of them. That may come from the components or the shaft straightness.
> 
> It is worth saying that they are no worse than Beman Diva S used to be and they won pretty much everything. Group wise I don’t see any outliers (bare shafts or fletched) but I haven‘t shot long distance. Arrow plotting at 90m quickly shows up any issues in your quiver. At 30m the bareshafts (all 12) are all as close together as I am getting with fletched.
> 
> ...


Why not just get the Preminens since they're only a little more than the paragon?
I saw no wobble on any arrows when I checked. I don't think Skylon intended the paragon shafts to be used by the grade of archer who would spin test them. I think they're for beginners to early intermediate.


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## Ray.L (Apr 29, 2021)

It's probably the components wobbling. For myself, the tungsten points didn't wobble on shafts where the SS points did.


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## FerrumVeritas (Oct 9, 2020)

I'm actually shooting the Performa's. Their spine consistency was surprisingly tight, and spine aligning got it nearly identical (certainly within 0.005, likely less). Since I was cutting them down to 29", I managed to get them all quite straight by spinning and cutting from both ends--either 1:2 or 0.5:2.5. 

I've never had any issues with Skylon's SS points. I've used them in VAPs for a couple years now too. The bulge points aren't as good as the parallel ones, but they're more readily available (which wins the day right now).


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

MooseisLoose said:


> Why not just get the Preminens since they're only a little more than the paragon?
> I saw no wobble on any arrows when I checked. I don't think Skylon intended the paragon shafts to be used by the grade of archer who would spin test them. I think they're for beginners to early intermediate.


In this country they were significantly more expensive - although recent price changes have brought them closer. If anything I should have bought the cheaper ones as I only bought these as smash up arrows for 30m at home. I just wanted a more economical arrow for short distance that would not feel significantly different. Hence also not bothering with tungsten points. Premiens + Tungsten is almost as expensive as running the X10s (for which I already have a full collection of components) - initial costs anyway.

I used to spin test my cheap aluminiums when I was a beginner (I can remember that far back). So don’t really see spinning them as an advanced technique! It is something I do without thinking after finishing an arrow build - spin, watch, put in quiver.

Stretch


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