# NFAA agenda items



## fmoss3 (Apr 20, 2003)

What changes did the directors make at their meeting this week?
I know they combined BH and BB.
Did away with BHL.
What else.
you can now shoot more than one arrow into the Vegas target and still count it (like the 5 spot).
Anyone know more.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Confused here. I can't see a 4th arrow being counted, not on the Vegas face. The shooter owns the target face and can shoot it as they please and even shoot 3 arrows in one target. I ran into this years and years ago.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Confused here. I can't see a 4th arrow being counted, not on the Vegas face. The shooter owns the target face and can shoot it as they please and even shoot 3 arrows in one target. I ran into this years and years ago.


Not in Vegas. If you shoot a 3-spot you are only allowed one arrow per spot. If you shoot two arrows in one spot the highest scoring arrow is scored minus one point. If you accidently shoot one spot twice, you want to shoot a 4th arrow into the one empty spot so you only lose points for the spot with two arrows in it. A guy on my bale this year did it and we had a judge come over to verify the rule. 

It would be a good rule change IMO. Especially in flights.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

https://www.nfaausa.com/wp-content/uploads/scanned-items-for-website.pdf

I don't know what the results for all of them yet...anybody?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cbrunson said:


> Not in Vegas. If you shoot a 3-spot you are only allowed one arrow per spot. If you shoot two arrows in one spot the highest scoring arrow is scored minus one point. If you accidently shoot one spot twice, you want to shoot a 4th arrow into the one empty spot so you only lose points for the spot with two arrows in it. A guy on my bale this year did it and we had a judge come over to verify the rule.
> 
> It would be a good rule change IMO. Especially in flights.


Noted. Vegas has it's own rules.....


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## fmoss3 (Apr 20, 2003)

Bob
Do you know which items passed or failed?
I know they combined BH & BB
and
did away with BHL, making all FSL
Pros have to qualify to be a pro.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

fmoss3 said:


> you can now shoot more than one arrow into the Vegas target and still count it (like the 5 spot).
> Anyone know more.


Still seems kind of dumb that a shooter can't keep track of 3 arrows....


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

fmoss3 said:


> Bob
> Do you know which items passed or failed?
> I know they combined BH & BB
> and
> ...


I don't know the results of all yet...or even which ones actually made it to the table. 

The Pro Chair introduced a few items and the one that has been reported as passing that you've noted seemed to directly conflict with another one he introduced.

He introduced an item that more or less said "you have to qualify to be a pro".

He also introduced another that more or less said "if you wear anything that says PRO on it you have to shoot in the pro class".

I don't see how you can have it both ways.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

SonnyThomas said:


> Still seems kind of dumb that a shooter can't keep track of 3 arrows....


You'd be surprised.... Though perhaps now the expectation is that, at that level of shooter, you don't need to guard against shanking an arrow so bad it goes into the X on the wrong spot anymore?

lee.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Bobmuley said:


> I don't know the results of all yet...or even which ones actually made it to the table.
> 
> The Pro Chair introduced a few items and the one that has been reported as passing that you've noted seemed to directly conflict with another one he introduced.
> 
> ...


I remember way, way back if you wore anything with a name, bow or equipment or even a ball hat with a archery company name, there was argument of that person having to shoot Pro. The list seemed endless, even belt buckles, like Hoyt, Martin and Pearson had.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

rules and policies made or changed that are about free style archers should only be voted on by archers who shoot in that class,the pro class rules and policies should be voted on by pro archers only,rules for bare bow archers or other classes should do the same in all adult classes. the only rule all archers and board people should all vote on is adding a class or joining classes together .> another rule is an archer shall be a American citizen to be able to vote and to shoot archery in our American national class if not you shoot in a quest class.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

Pete53 said:


> rules and policies made or changed that are about free style archers should only be voted on by archers who shoot in that class,the pro class rules and policies should be voted on by pro archers only,rules for bare bow archers or other classes should do the same in all adult classes. the only rule all archers and board people should all vote on is adding a class or joining classes together .> another rule is an archer shall be a American citizen to be able to vote and to shoot archery in our American national class if not you shoot in a quest class.


It does not work that way PETE. A few years ago, about 10 Canadians started coming down to Washington State and joined the WSAA and the NFAA. They were able to shoot for the state championship and again later in the year at the NFAA oudoor and indoor championship. They asked me to come up to British Columbia and shoot with them.

So I go up and joined the BCAA and their national organization prior to the competition. I won but was put into the quest class as I was not a Canadian. When I asked about it I was told that the US might be stupid to allow archers from other countries to win their tournaments, but they were not. This was a few years ago so has any US citizen in the last few years actually competed in Canada with the ability to win in the same way the Canadians are allowed to do in the US? I am talking about a province or national competition, not a 3D or fun shoot.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

huteson2us2 said:


> It does not work that way PETE. A few years ago, about 10 Canadians started coming down to Washington State and joined the WSAA and the NFAA. They were able to shoot for the state championship and again later in the year at the NFAA oudoor and indoor championship. They asked me to come up to British Columbia and shoot with them.
> 
> So I go up and joined the BCAA and their national organization prior to the competition. I won but was put into the quest class as I was not a Canadian. When I asked about it I was told that the US might be stupid to allow archers from other countries to win their tournaments, but they were not. This was a few years ago so has any US citizen in the last few years actually competed in Canada with the ability to win in the same way the Canadians are allowed to do in the US? I am talking about a province or national competition, not a 3D or fun shoot.


That's a problem (or not) with the NFAA constitution.

On one hand it opens it up to non-US citizens. On the other hand it raises the level of competition. I'd say the NFAA is everybit if not more competitive than WA or any other organization (excluding Korean national recurve competitions).


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

bob muley,yes the NFAA has it open to all but to many off us if its our American National shoot non-US citizens should shoot in a quest class .
National means citizens of the country/ World means all people on earth. maybe all american citizens that are NFAA members should vote on this issue my a mailed ballot ?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Pete53 said:


> bob muley,yes the NFAA has it open to all but to many off us if its our American National shoot non-US citizens should shoot in a quest class .
> National means citizens of the country/ World means all people on earth. maybe all american citizens that are NFAA members should vote on this issue my a mailed ballot ?


I really don't have a problem with it...as long as they pay their dues 

Yes. National does mean persons of a particular country. What in talking about is level of competition. I think it makes for a better competition that their included for NFAA stuff because it raises the bar and means more when Big Cat beats Schloesser and Hansen. 

I think it makes archery better for all of us...especially with the endgame being to get more publicity for archery. Minimizing competition in order to preserve a sense of nationality for NFAA stuff is counterproductive for archery growth. Really, were only talking about the Pros and maybe a couple amateur Canadians. 

Now on the US Archery side it's much more complicated and I'm against foreign nationals from competing because it has implications to ranking "our" archers. 


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

good points bob you posted, but because the NFAA has sooo many problems I guess just let it be ? I just feel because us Americans police the world and pay to feed a lot of countries why can`t we just keep the word national to true America`s ????


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

So it doesn't bother anyone that a Canadian won the National Marked 3D championship a few years ago or that the Washington State Champion a few years ago lived in central Oregon? Tournaments like Vegas is a world tournament but I notice that the USAA does not allow archers from other countries to be on the US team at the world cup in Vegas. I believe that the NFAA would let Martians compete at out National Championships if they paid. I got really mad that I joined the Canadian organizations and was not able to win the Canadian championship as they can in the US because they are not as stupid as the US. As far as competing with the archers from other countries, I have done so many times at World tournaments. That is what they are for. One day the US Indoor and outdoor champions will be from other countries and then the US will be a joke to the rest of the world.

As far as changes made, I am sure that the NFAA created more classes for the archers that are tired of having one other competitor in their class and are unable to win a National Championship.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

If I remember correctly a NFAA member of one state is given guest status in another state and this pertaining to state championships. 
If you look, ASA allows full membership across the states. You have to qualify in the state though. And states are doing this, having multiple state Qualifiers.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Pete53 said:


> ...I just feel because us Americans police the world and pay to feed a lot of countries why can`t we just keep the word national to true America`s ????


It's an archery association, not a military operation. 

Perspectives...


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

huteson2us2 said:


> So it doesn't bother anyone that a Canadian won the National Marked 3D championship a few years ago or that the Washington State Champion a few years ago lived in central Oregon? .


Not at all Perkins has helped raise the level of competition. 

If you want to dumb down US archery by all means keep the competition out. 

There's a sure fire way to keep non-citizens and non-residents from winning "your" championships. 

Beat them on the range. 



huteson2us2 said:


> Tournaments like Vegas is a world tournament but I notice that the USAA does not allow archers from other countries to be on the US team at the world cup in Vegas. I believe that the NFAA would let Martians compete at out National Championships if they paid.


two different sets of rules between The Vegas Shoot and the WA shoot. 

I wouldn't have a problem shooting against a non-violent Martian. 



huteson2us2 said:


> I got really mad that I joined the Canadian organizations and was not able to win the Canadian championship as they can in the US because they are not as stupid as the US.
> 
> As far as competing with the archers from other countries, I have done so many times at World tournaments. That is what they are for. One day the US Indoor and outdoor champions will be from other countries and then the US will be a joke to the rest of the world.


perfect case in point. Is the Canadian Championship bigger and more prestigious than NFAA shoots? No, because by keeping it to themselves they limit the level of competition and make it irrelevant. But hey, more meaningless trophies is what everyone wants now right. 

Foreigners have already won the indoor and outdoor (Redding) championships...and the result is that we have the most depth of talent ever and the shoots are getting bigger and more prestigious. Please explain how you view that as a bad thing.

Again, I'm looking at this from the view point of archery. Not from individuals delicate egos. 



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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Keep in mind the Canadian organization (FCA) is responsible for the Olympic and world level team selection. The results directly effect competitive ranking and funding.

Anyone can join and compete in the NFAA, but not USAA for the same reason. The NFAA doesn't select or fund a team for the IFAA championship so doesn't need any protectionalist junk.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Bobmuley said:


> Not at all Perkins has helped raise the level of competition.
> 
> If you want to dumb down US archery by all means keep the competition out.
> 
> ...


Well said. 

Better competition = better competitions.


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## legion_archery (Mar 4, 2014)

So did the thing about "must qualify to be a pro" pass?? I shot the Iowa indoor in January and shot the pro class does that mean I can keep shooting pro? 

I was going to go to Vegas this year and shoot pro but I really don't want to have to go to a bunch of shoot just to show that I am good enough, if I pay the entree fee and if I know that I'm good enough then let I compete 

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## fmoss3 (Apr 20, 2003)

I think it passed, you would be grandfathered in as you are already a pro. must meet certain scores to join as new member.(my opinion not a bad idea.)
new rules take effect next November.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

legion_archery said:


> So did the thing about "must qualify to be a pro" pass?? I shot the Iowa indoor in January and shot the pro class does that mean I can keep shooting pro?
> 
> I was going to go to Vegas this year and shoot pro but I really don't want to have to go to a bunch of shoot just to show that I am good enough, if I pay the entree fee and if I know that I'm good enough then let I compete
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Really? It takes less than one calendar year to shoot 6 national events. Read the proposal and see what it says - page 41. The example of "within 3.5% of the winning score" is a pretty low rung to reach to qualify for "Pro." But, to your objection, there is a proposed grandfather clause...


For my own 2 cents, I don't agree with Agenda Code MN-2.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Rick! said:


> Really? It takes less than one calendar year to shoot 6 national events. Read the proposal and see what it says - page 41. The example of "within 3.5% of the winning score" is a pretty low rung to reach to qualify for "Pro." But, to your objection, there is a proposed grandfather clause...
> 
> 
> For my own 2 cents, I don't agree with Agenda Code MN-2.


The way I read it was they would average the last 6 years indoor nationals or field nationals to establish a baseline and you could turn in one state or sectional stamped scorecard to qualify. They gave the example showing a perfect 300-60x average for indoor would let you qualify with a 300-48x.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

the name National is of one country but here is a better solution > allow these aliens to shoot in our American National shoots only if that country allows us to compete against their archer`s in all their National shoots and at the same price . do you or I think the NFAA has balls enough to pass this needed policy for the good of American archers ?


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## legion_archery (Mar 4, 2014)

Rick! said:


> Really? It takes less than one calendar year to shoot 6 national events. Read the proposal and see what it says - page 41. The example of "within 3.5% of the winning score" is a pretty low rung to reach to qualify for "Pro." But, to your objection, there is a proposed grandfather clause...
> 
> 
> For my own 2 cents, I don't agree with Agenda Code MN-2.


I don't have a problem qualifying but what I have a problem with is going to 6 national events in one calendar year most people can't afford to do that, for example the Kansas City shootout would be the closest for me and it's a 5hr drive..... and I don't know of any organization that makes someone qualify to shoot any class..... I would have no problem standing in front of a judge or anyone an showing them I can shoot a 60X or a 300 w/25+ X count 

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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Pete53 said:


> the name National is of one country but here is a better solution > allow these aliens to shoot in our American National shoots only if that country allows us to compete against their archer`s in all their National shoots and at the same price . do you or I think the NFAA has balls enough to pass this needed policy for the good of American archers ?


Why do you feel it's needed?

I mean really, do you hear much about the Belgium National Championship? Is it a prestigious shoot? The Utah Open probably has better competition than it...and it's a relatively small "open" format shoot. 

Open tournaments raise the bar. 

You either want to compete against or beat the best...or you want to increase the odds of someone you know winning. 

Having the likes of Hansen, Schloesser, Pagni, Damsbo, Pineau, etc makes Reo, Big Cat, Broadwater, and everyone else better. I seriously doubt they would want to keep the foreigners out of competitions. 


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

legion_archery said:


> So did the thing about "must qualify to be a pro" pass?? I shot the Iowa indoor in January and shot the pro class does that mean I can keep shooting pro?
> 
> I was going to go to Vegas this year and shoot pro but I really don't want to have to go to a bunch of shoot just to show that I am good enough, if I pay the entree fee and if I know that I'm good enough then let I compete
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Just ONE score from a state, sectional, or National shoot. 

I'm not sure how they are going to treat the peripheral stuff like Iowa, Lancaster's, etc. 


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Bobmuley said:


> Why do you feel it's needed?
> 
> I mean really, do you hear much about the Belgium National Championship? Is it a prestigious shoot? The Utah Open probably has better competition than it...and it's a relatively small "open" format shoot.
> 
> ...


The Utah Open has some pretty tough competition.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

cbrunson said:


> The Utah Open has some pretty tough competition.


They even let non-Utahns shoot!


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Regarding the Pro Qualification - just some clarification. This rule does not impact the likes of the IA Pro Am, KS Shootout, Vegas, Midwest Open, Lancasters, etc.. The Championship Division in those tournaments are not under NFAA rules and are open to anyone who wishes to pay the entry fees. The Pro Qualification only applies to those who are not currently NFAA Pro members who wish to become NFAA Pros after the new by-law goes into effect. Qualification scores can only come from a NFAA State, Sectional or National event.

JB >>--------->


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Bobmuley said:


> They even let non-Utahns shoot!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ya, I don't get the "no foreigners" mentality. 

USA team ranking tournaments, you bet. Everything else? Why limit the potential for competition?


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

cbrunson said:


> Ya, I don't get the "no foreigners" mentality.
> 
> USA team ranking tournaments, you bet. Everything else? Why limit the potential for competition?


so its ok these other countries don`t allow us foreigners to compete with them in their country but they are allowed in America to compete, I live near the Canadian border so for me and others its closer to shoot in Canada . a guess just let it be ?


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Pete53 said:


> so its ok these other countries don`t allow us foreigners to compete with them in their country but they are allowed in America to compete, I live near the Canadian border so for me and others its closer to shoot in Canada . a guess just let it be ?


I guess I just don't agree with limiting our competition just because another country does it differently. 

Why don't you focus on getting them to include you rather that take what we offer away?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Pete53 said:


> so its ok these other countries don`t allow us foreigners to compete with them in their country but they are allowed in America to compete, I live near the Canadian border so for me and others its closer to shoot in Canada . a guess just let it be ?


Ontario Archery Association:
Master Membership shall be granted to any applicant who is 50 or older on Dec 31 of the current year and who has paid the annual fee.

Only members of the O.A.A. are eligible to win awards at sponsored tournaments, other than a designated Guest Award. Guest Awards are not recognized at any Provincial Championships.

So join their organization and shoot...

I don't see anything in OAA or CA that says non-Canadians can't do anything besides be on the board of directors or be on the national team. But, just like we've been saying, as long as someone pays their dues they can not only shoot, but compete. 


Caveat...I did not go through all their bylaws with a fine-toothed comb. Unless someone shows me something different in writing I believe they sound pretty open to me.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

well that`s good to hear thank you,Pete53


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

Bobmuley said:


> Ontario Archery Association:
> Master Membership shall be granted to any applicant who is 50 or older on Dec 31 of the current year and who has paid the annual fee.
> 
> Only members of the O.A.A. are eligible to win awards at sponsored tournaments, other than a designated Guest Award. Guest Awards are not recognized at any Provincial Championships.
> ...


Where's the *BigHun*garian when you need him? 

I rather enjoy shooting with international types at the bigger shoots.

I also don't have any aspirations to shoot for the US, Canadian, Mexican or any other national team so I'm ok with the current state of NFAA participant inclusion.

What's the non-violent Martian's name so I can recognize him if he's on my bale? Did he go Pro?


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

legion_archery said:


> I don't have a problem qualifying but what I have a problem with is going to 6 national events in one calendar year most people can't afford to do that, for example the Kansas City shootout would be the closest for me and it's a 5hr drive..... and I don't know of any organization that makes someone qualify to shoot any class..... I would have no problem standing in front of a judge or anyone an showing them I can shoot a 60X or a 300 w/25+ X count
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


You are miss-reading the agenda item. You only need to submit ONE scorecard that meets the standard. The threshold to qualify is based on what those who are already Pros shoot during the last six years (moving average).


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Rick! said:


> ...
> 
> What's the non-violent Martian's name so I can recognize him if he's on my bale? Did he go Pro?


Greg Poole...:wink:


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

legion_archery said:


> So did the thing about "must qualify to be a pro" pass?? I shot the Iowa indoor in January and shot the pro class does that mean I can keep shooting pro?
> 
> I was going to go to Vegas this year and shoot pro but I really don't want to have to go to a bunch of shoot just to show that I am good enough, if I pay the entree fee and if I know that I'm good enough then let I compete


I was not under the impression that you had to be a "Pro" or pay the NFAA pro dues to shoot the Championship divisions in Vegas.
As I understand it, the NFAA resolution was for NFAA certification as a professional, not a restriction on who may enter (at least Vegas, where it's a Championship division, not a "Pro" division.

Perhaps I misunderstood the intent and current rules?


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Bobmuley said:


> Just ONE score from a state, sectional, or National shoot.
> 
> I'm not sure how they are going to treat the peripheral stuff like Iowa, Lancaster's, etc.


According to what Chuck Cooley said on the BJ podcast, there are only two standard NFAA rounds. 5spot blue face, and Field, therefore you could only qualify by shooting one of those at the State, Sectional, or National level. The "Vegas" shoot is not an official NFAA round, neither is LAS Classic. 
300 w/48X's minimum for blue face, 540/560 Field. Doesn't matter if you can shoot 600/600 with 60X's on a Vegas face, that doesn't meet the proposed NFAA Pro certification criteria for new pros.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

nestly said:


> According to what Chuck Cooley said on the BJ podcast, there are only two standard NFAA rounds. 5spot blue face, and Field, therefore you could only qualify by shooting one of those at the State, Sectional, or National level. The "Vegas" shoot is not an official NFAA round, neither is LAS Classic.
> 300 w/48X's minimum for blue face, 540/560 Field. Doesn't matter if you can shoot 600/600 with 60X's on a Vegas face, that doesn't meet the proposed NFAA Pro certification criteria for new pros.


It's a good thing Chuck threw a grandfather clause in there.

I know that the Vegas shoot isn't an official NFAA round, but most states and sections do you have sanctioned 450 rounds. I see no logical reason that those scores wouldn't work. 

And personally, I think they are missing a great recruiting tool. You could send an invitation (make somebody feel special) to those that would otherwise qualify at places like Lancaster, Redding, Iowa, Vegas, etc.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Bobmuley said:


> It's a good thing Chuck threw a grandfather clause in there.
> 
> I know that the Vegas shoot isn't an official NFAA round, but most states and sections do you have sanctioned 450 rounds. I see no logical reason that those scores wouldn't work.
> 
> And personally, I think they are missing a great recruiting tool. You could send an invitation (make somebody feel special) to those that would otherwise qualify at places like Lancaster, Redding, Iowa, Vegas, etc.


Went back and reviewed what he said 
"because there are only two rounds that are official for everybody"
Keep in mind that this is just and NFAA thing, whatever NFAA does, it has no bearing on how IBO/ASA/USAA/WA handle professional archers (although ideally I believe it should expand to encompass all archery pros, not just NFAA pros)


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

nestly said:


> Went back and reviewed what he said
> "because there are only two rounds that are official for everybody"
> Keep in mind that this is just and NFAA thing, whatever NFAA does, it has no bearing on how IBO/ASA/USAA/WA handle professional archers (although ideally I believe it should expand to encompass all archery pros, not just NFAA pros)


But that's just it. Those aren't official for everybody (thinking global here). 

How do we get the next Schloesser and Hansen involved and able to participate in NFAA shoots? Kids like Buden, Renaud Domaski or established "pros" like Sebastian Pineau, PJ DeLoche, Sergio Pagni don't shoot "our" field rounds or the blue face. Yet they compete quite well with the likes of Cousins, Broadwater, Anderson, Wilde, etc. 

Quite deserving of being a professional...


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

SonnyThomas said:


> Still seems kind of dumb that a shooter can't keep track of 3 arrows....


I was at one of GRIV's seminars where he said he was penalized for shooting the targets out of sequence. I didn't even know that was a rule.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

huteson2us2 said:


> It does not work that way PETE. A few years ago, about 10 Canadians started coming down to Washington State and joined the WSAA and the NFAA. They were able to shoot for the state championship and again later in the year at the NFAA oudoor and indoor championship. They asked me to come up to British Columbia and shoot with them.
> 
> So I go up and joined the BCAA and their national organization prior to the competition. I won but was put into the quest class as I was not a Canadian. When I asked about it I was told that the US might be stupid to allow archers from other countries to win their tournaments, but they were not. This was a few years ago so has any US citizen in the last few years actually competed in Canada with the ability to win in the same way the Canadians are allowed to do in the US? I am talking about a province or national competition, not a 3D or fun shoot.


All the more reason to build that wall!


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

carlosii said:


> I was at one of GRIV's seminars where he said he was penalized for shooting the targets out of sequence. I didn't even know that was a rule.


It is not a rule to shoot arrows in any particular order during The Vegas Shoot. What GRIV was most likely referring to was during the World Archery Indoor World Cup Final (which is held Sat night in Vegas) he was in a 1 arrow shootoff and they had to shoot 1 arrow into the center spot of a 3 spot vertical target and GRIV shot his into the top spot


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

carlosii said:


> I was at one of GRIV's seminars where he said he was penalized for shooting the targets out of sequence. I didn't even know that was a rule.


I remember you going to his seminar.....


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

nestly said:


> According to what Chuck Cooley said on the BJ podcast, there are only two standard NFAA rounds. 5spot blue face, and Field, therefore you could only qualify by shooting one of those at the State, Sectional, or National level. The "Vegas" shoot is not an official NFAA round, neither is LAS Classic.
> 300 w/48X's minimum for blue face, 540/560 Field. Doesn't matter if you can shoot 600/600 with 60X's on a Vegas face, that doesn't meet the proposed NFAA Pro certification criteria for new pros.


Just got a response back from the Pro Chairman. To summarize:

There are other scores that will transfer for international folks and provisions are being made for members of other National teams because they've shown proficiency outside of NFAA rounds.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

shawn_in_MA said:


> It is not a rule to shoot arrows in any particular order during The Vegas Shoot. What GRIV was most likely referring to was during the World Archery Indoor World Cup Final (which is held Sat night in Vegas) he was in a 1 arrow shootoff and they had to shoot 1 arrow into the center spot of a 3 spot vertical target and GRIV shot his into the top spot


...against Dave Cousins if I remember right.


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

NFAA got rid of Competitive Bowhunter (one anchor point and no sight), Bowhunter Freestyle Limited, Longbow, all kids Compound Limited Freestyle classes, Pro Olympic (put in because the Pro Rep promised us the Olympic shooters who never came) and Pro Limited Freestyle.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

ccwilder3 said:


> NFAA got rid of Competitive Bowhunter (one anchor point and no sight), Bowhunter Freestyle Limited, Longbow, all kids Compound Limited Freestyle classes, Pro Olympic (put in because the Pro Rep promised us the Olympic shooters who never came) and Pro Limited Freestyle.


You made me look at the FAA web page, one of my go to sources for NFAA info. Tim Austin has always done a great job keeping Florida members well informed.

For those in this thread interested, have attached (below) unofficial minutes of 2017 BOD meeting. Looks most agenda items were passed. Official minutes not yet posted at NFAA.

http://www.floridaarchery.org/NFAA_Directors_Meeting-SECouncilman_Report_2017.pdf


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Bobmuley said:


> Just got a response back from the Pro Chairman. To summarize:
> 
> There are other scores that will transfer for international folks and provisions are being made for members of other National teams because they've shown proficiency outside of NFAA rounds.


That seems perfectly reasonable, but that's not what he said, not what he submitted, and not what was approved (according to the above link)
Guess we'll see how it comes out in the official record. 

Currently, I don't think it matters either way as it seems a "pro card" isn't required for the biggest and most prestigious events that would attract international shooters.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

nestly said:


> According to what Chuck Cooley said on the BJ podcast, there are only two standard NFAA rounds. 5spot blue face, and Field, therefore you could only qualify by shooting one of those at the State, Sectional, or National level. The "Vegas" shoot is not an official NFAA round, neither is LAS Classic.
> 300 w/48X's minimum for blue face, 540/560 Field. Doesn't matter if you can shoot 600/600 with 60X's on a Vegas face, that doesn't meet the proposed NFAA Pro certification criteria for new pros.


unless Chuck stipulated that only the 5 spot Or the field round can be used to qualify, The vegas round is an official round that can be used for championship tournaments. 2004 ,the indoor mid-atlantic championships were shot on the Vegas target .It was a 600 round. So it could qualify for new pros


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

brtesite said:


> *unless Chuck stipulated that only the 5 spot Or the field round can be used to qualify*, ....


He did exactly that. 
You can listen to him state it in his own words that only NFAA blue face and NFAA Field scores will be considered in July 5th Bowjunky podcast at 25 to 27 minutes. 
Link --> http://bowjunkymedia.libsyn.com/

Or in his submission for the agenda on page 41 (agenda code PRO-1) here --> https://www.nfaausa.com/wp-content/uploads/scanned-items-for-website.pdf

Or in the description of the approved agenda item (agenda code PRO-1) from the meeting minutes. (screenshot w/ highlighting below) 
original link--> http://www.floridaarchery.org/NFAA_Directors_Meeting-SECouncilman_Report_2017.pdf

I'm not saying that I agree with using only those two rounds as qualifying rounds, but I believe that was the Pro Chairs intent to get the ball rolling on qualification, and it appears to have been passed such that those are the only two rounds that can be used at this time.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

TNMAN said:


> You made me look at the FAA web page, one of my go to sources for NFAA info. Tim Austin has always done a great job keeping Florida members well informed.
> 
> For those in this thread interested, have attached (below) unofficial minutes of 2017 BOD meeting. Looks most agenda items were passed. Official minutes not yet posted at NFAA.
> 
> http://www.floridaarchery.org/NFAA_Directors_Meeting-SECouncilman_Report_2017.pdf


Thanks for the citation, I should have known to look to the Florida site first!

Looks like this report only listed the items that passed. Several others were moved and seconded but NOT passed, and some died for lack of a motion (mostly those that were redundant because a similar item had already passed.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

Bobmuley said:


> But that's just it. Those aren't official for everybody (thinking global here).
> 
> How do we get the next Schloesser and Hansen involved and able to participate in NFAA shoots? Kids like Buden, Renaud Domaski or established "pros" like Sebastian Pineau, PJ DeLoche, Sergio Pagni don't shoot "our" field rounds or the blue face. Yet they compete quite well with the likes of Cousins, Broadwater, Anderson, Wilde, etc.
> 
> ...


I asked a similar question during the meeting (although I was there as a "Guest" only and not as a Director).

We have a current rule that anyone who shoots in another organization (I.e. IBO) as a Pro can only shoot in NFAA as a Pro and must join NFAA Pro Division.

Those folks will need to shoot a State or Sectional Indoor or Field Championship to achieve a qualifying score. But I guess they'll have to do it as a Guest being neither Pro nor Non-Pro in NFAA eyes.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

To address the original post. I would encourage anyone who has any questions to contact their state director regarding agenda items. That's what they are there for. If you don't know who your state director is they are listed along with contact info on the NFAA Website. 

To generalize, the meeting was a very productive one and people should be encouraged about the direction of the NFAA.

One thing I do remember without looking at notes............the proposal item that would have allowed six pins in BHFS went down in flames. :teeth:


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

wa-prez said:


> I asked a similar question during the meeting (although I was there as a "Guest" only and not as a Director).
> 
> We have a current rule that anyone who shoots in another organization (I.e. IBO) as a Pro can only shoot in NFAA as a Pro and must join NFAA Pro Division.
> 
> Those folks will need to shoot a State or Sectional Indoor or Field Championship to achieve a qualifying score. But I guess they'll have to do it as a Guest being neither Pro nor Non-Pro in NFAA eyes.


This is only an issue at NFAA Shoots. It doesn't come into play unless it is an NFAA shoot.

If someone were a "Pro" in another organization why wouldn't they want to become an NFAA Professional if it was their desire to shoot an NFAA shoot? (State, Sectional or National Championship.) And if they did, what's wrong with holding them to the standard? Bottom line, if they are a Pro in another organization, the standards are set low enough that just about anybody could qualify that really wanted to.


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

Let clarify a couple things on the Canadian side, AC (Archery Canada) is the WA affiliate a non citizen cannot win the Canadian championships, USAA is the WA affiliate and also a non citizen cannot win the USAA championships. The NFAA requires membership not citizenship to participate and win its events, in Canada we use to have a CFAA which was the same only membership was required and seral US citizens won several Canadian Championships over the years, that organisation is gone. The OAA (Ontario association of Archers) requires membership but does have stipulations on teams, funding etc that require citizenship but US archers have shot and won Ontario Championships, I don't know if each provincial organisation follows or has their own rules regarding this.


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## fmoss3 (Apr 20, 2003)

do you have to be a pro to represent the pro's?
Chuck Cooley and Randal Welling may have a problem qualifying as a pro.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

fmoss3 said:


> do you have to be a pro to represent the pro's?
> Chuck Cooley and Randal Welling may have a problem qualifying as a pro.


:set1_punch:Oh boy. You might have just poked the beast.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

fmoss3 said:


> do you have to be a pro to represent the pro's?
> Chuck Cooley and Randal Welling may have a problem qualifying as a pro.


 oh let`em shoot pro , > but ya that`s funny !:wink:


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Even without being grandfathered in, both men have easily qualified with their scores. But for the important part, I don't know that Pro Division has ever been in better hands.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Minutes posted. https://www.nfaausa.com/wp-content/...17-National-Field-Archery-Association-BOD.pdf

Just noticed silver senior and master senior pro classes approved. Wondering how many old farts will pay $125 pro dues to become a pot shooter for a couple of shoots a year.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

TNMAN said:


> Minutes posted. https://www.nfaausa.com/wp-content/...17-National-Field-Archery-Association-BOD.pdf
> 
> Just noticed silver senior and master senior pro classes approved. Wondering how many old farts will pay $125 pro dues to become a pot shooter for a couple of shoots a year.


I've lost count. How many classes does the NFAA have now, 80? I know it was up 72 at one time.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> I've lost count. How many classes does the NFAA have now, 80? I know it was up 72 at one time.


It was 116 prior to the meeting. 42 classes were eliminated. However, as noted above the advanced age Sr Pro classes were added. 

I really don't understand the resistance to the Senior classes since they are some of the fastest growing classes. CA even submitted an Agenda item wanting to eliminate some of the Sr classes as well as move the age back to 60. Smh. It failed soundly. All I could say was..........it's California.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Beyond doubt there more ???...older people shooting today than ever before. I was one of them before I knew was. Competed in my first IAA state sanctioned class as age 54 and I did pretty good. The next year I was put in Senior Adult. I didn't know I was until the Award Ceremony at that event. ...Time span... The next came new Senior Classes. I was kind of ticked off. Okay, maybe I was healthier or stronger or something more than others my own age and felt the age change wrong? I've aged and I hurt in places I didn't know I had and maybe I feel like a senior now...maybe. If anything is down on me it's that I know I lack desire as once did...


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

glad to see the removal of a lot of classes in the NFAA ! next on the NFAA agenda is or should be is > term limits on these directors and officers of the NFAA ,the NFAA needs new ideals from new people.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

TNMAN said:


> Minutes posted. https://www.nfaausa.com/wp-content/...17-National-Field-Archery-Association-BOD.pdf
> 
> Just noticed silver senior and master senior pro classes approved. Wondering how many old farts will pay $125 pro dues to become a pot shooter for a couple of shoots a year.


What is the age for master senior pro?


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

70 and older


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

archer_nm said:


> 70 and older


Hey! That's me.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

carlosii said:


> Hey! That's me.


Dean set the bar fairly high for master seniors to qualify, even at 96.5%. He shot 550's as a master senior....oddly enough, about the same scores that he shot to win Outdoor Nats Clemson in 1977, the first year we shot the "new" face.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

TNMAN said:


> Dean set the bar fairly high for master seniors to qualify, even at 96.5%. He shot 550's as a master senior....oddly enough, about the same scores that he shot to win Outdoor Nats Clemson in 1977, the first year we shot the "new" face.


Well, back to the drawing board.


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