# Gyroscopic Stabilizer Introduced



## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

mcal0020 said:


> My dad, who's been into archery since before I was born and taught me how to shoot, just started his own company to start manufacturing and selling archery accessories. (He's a machinist as well, since even before he started in archery) So far he's not into the stuff you can get anywhere else, but he's developing truly new and innovative products. The first one is out now, it's a stabilizer that uses a battery-powered gyro to keep your bow still. The physics behind it are well developed, and it absolutely works better than traditional stabilizers. I know a lot of people have been curious about a product like this, and now is your chance to check it out first hand. Check out the website: http://www.maxx300.com/
> He's also constantly looking for good, new ideas for new products. If you have any, send an email.


Innovative idea, but you might want to have someone look at your web page design. Page opens and displays fine using Internet Explorer, but not pictures load when using FireFox.


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Firefox issue recognized*

Thanks for that catch Lee, I guess that's what you get for building and testing in a microsoft-only environment. The Firefox issue will be addressed, also, look for updates in the coming weeks.


----------



## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

mcal0020 said:


> Thanks for that catch Lee, I guess that's what you get for building and testing in a microsoft-only environment. The Firefox issue will be addressed, also, look for updates in the coming weeks.


Glad you came back and saw this. Really need some pictures with the gyro mounted on the bow.

Be glad to be the guinea pig for you. :wink:


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Firefox issue addressed*

The firefox issue with the website has been fixed and now *should* display properly in firefox. Please let me know if problems continue. We're currently working on more pictures, diagrams, and descriptions of how the gyro-stabilizer works, as well as some new options and accessories. Stay tuned for some major site updates
http://www.maxx300.com/


----------



## practice-more (Nov 10, 2005)

The site is working great on Firefox.


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Gyro cleared for competition*

Some good news, we have been in contact with the NFAA, and they have determined the Max-X gyro stabilizer to be legal for the freestyle and freestyle limited classes (but not freestyle bowhunter). We're sending a shooter to an upcoming NFAA event to try it out. We have also been in contact with IBO, and while we would expect a similar ruling, we should know more by the middle of April. Check back for updates!


----------



## Oregon HG (Mar 22, 2008)

Have you guys though about decoration of your product? It this something your looking at getting done in Camo?


----------



## trkeyterminator (Feb 17, 2008)

you really need a video of it in action


----------



## Peregrynne (Jul 1, 2006)

The only thing I am wondering about is the battery life....180 shots?

I can do that in practice at times if I am working on sighting in or just having a bad day.

Seems like a short battery life to me. :noidea:


----------



## gplant (Jan 31, 2008)

trkeyterminator said:


> you really need a video of it in action


AGREE!!! and some pic's of it on a bow and in a shooters hand.GREAT IDEA!!!!


----------



## De-Gurl (Feb 4, 2007)

Peregrynne said:


> The only thing I am wondering about is the battery life....180 shots?
> 
> I can do that in practice at times if I am working on sighting in or just having a bad day.
> 
> Seems like a short battery life to me. :noidea:


I agree, is that per charge?

Also, on the Ordering Page...the "more details" links do not work (I'm using IE 7.0)


----------



## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

mcal0020 said:


> Some good news, we have been in contact with the NFAA, and they have determined the Max-X gyro stabilizer to be legal for the freestyle and freestyle limited classes (but not freestyle bowhunter). We're sending a shooter to an upcoming NFAA event to try it out. We have also been in contact with IBO, and while we would expect a similar ruling, we should know more by the middle of April. Check back for updates!


 Don't think so. Nothing official


----------



## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

brtesite said:


> Don't think so. Nothing official


I was wondering, and doubting all at the same time.......


----------



## Kai S (Mar 24, 2008)

This could be very interesting to use, both on the bow and adapted to my camera. If it works well the price is more than fair - I've had my eye on the Kenyon KS-2 stabilizer for quite some time, but the price is rather prohibitive. It has a 6 hour run time though using an external battery pack. I think instead of saying your stabilizer is good for 180 shots you should give it in time. 180 shots on an indoor range go alot faster than 180 between 28 target bails in the field...

Kenyon KS-2


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Contact your local rep*



brtesite said:


> Don't think so. Nothing official


All I can tell you is that when I contacted the central NFAA office they would only refer me to my local rep, who in a series of emails told me that it IS LEGAL for freestyle and freestyle limited classes. Having the same concerns about showing up at a shoot and being DQ'ed, I specifically asked if this was an official ruling, which he said it was. If you still have concerns, I strongly recommend you contact the local rep in your area. The list can be found at the following link http://www.nfaa-archery.org/about/directors.cfm


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Good questions*

Lots of good questions the last couple of days, I'll try to get to all of them...


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Decoration*



Oregon HG said:


> Have you guys though about decoration of your product? It this something your looking at getting done in Camo?


Since the main body is aluminum, colored anodizing is a possibility but would raise the product cost slightly, we'd have to check how much. For camo, we could look into some kind of decal system for an inexpensive alternative, though this product would not be recommended for hunting purposes. I understand you're probably trying to match your bow. We could look into a black finish that wouldn't clash.


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Working on it*



trkeyterminator said:


> you really need a video of it in action


Currently working on website updates, we have better pics of it to post (on a bow, being shot, etc.) video would take a little longer to get up, although I'm not sure what you're looking for with the video...the rotor spins so fast (22,000 RPM) that you can't actually see it spin.


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Battery*



Peregrynne said:


> The only thing I am wondering about is the battery life....180 shots?
> 
> I can do that in practice at times if I am working on sighting in or just having a bad day.
> 
> Seems like a short battery life to me. :noidea:


180 shots is a somewhat conservative estimate, and that is a per charge number. The batteries are similar technology to what's used in laptops, so they last quite a few charges. I can double check what the warranty is. It is also recommended to turn off the gyro between shots, as the angular momentum produced by the gryo makes it somewhat akward to move the bow quickly or carry in a holster. It also only takes less than a second for the gyro to spin to max speed. The battery capacity is really only limited by the size (and weight) of the battery, and we were looking for something that would be reasonable to hike around a 3-D course with, but would also last the whole shoot. If there's interest in longer-lasting batteries, we can look into it, though they will be heavier (and more expensive)


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

Kai S said:


> This could be very interesting to use, both on the bow and adapted to my camera. If it works well the price is more than fair - I've had my eye on the Kenyon KS-2 stabilizer for quite some time, but the price is rather prohibitive. It has a 6 hour run time though using an external battery pack. I think instead of saying your stabilizer is good for 180 shots you should give it in time. 180 shots on an indoor range go alot faster than 180 between 28 target bails in the field...
> 
> Kenyon KS-2


Since it's meant to be turned off between shots, the continuous run time would be somewhat misleading (since it requires more power to keep starting the gyro every time) but we can certainly do that experiment. For camera use, there is a separate issue. A camera requires 2 gyros, mounted at right angles to each other (as in the Kenyon Labs models) to stabilize in all three axes. For a bow, this problem is averted since the overall lenth of the bow itself acts like a traditional long stabilizer (about the axis of the shooter's arm) so that we essentially ignore rotation about the shooter's arm and stabilize on the other two axes (left-right and up-down) with one gyro. So, one would either have to mount two of our gyros at right angles to each other (which would still be much cheaper than the Kenyon stabilizers, but would require 2 battery packs) or a complete re-design of our stabilizer at a greater cost, which would be possible but not in the near future. It would also depend on what the demand is for camera stabilizers, which we haven't fully explored.


----------



## elkski (Feb 4, 2005)

how loud is it??? would it bother other shooters inside? hunting??


----------



## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

mcal0020 said:


> All I can tell you is that when I contacted the central NFAA office they would only refer me to my local rep, who in a series of emails told me that it IS LEGAL for freestyle and freestyle limited classes. Having the same concerns about showing up at a shoot and being DQ'ed, I specifically asked if this was an official ruling, which he said it was. If you still have concerns, I strongly recommend you contact the local rep in your area. The list can be found at the following link http://www.nfaa-archery.org/about/directors.cfm


Considering that britesite is a councilman.........I am fairly certain he would be in the know a little more than a state director..........

I can not see how this stabilizer would be legal in any archery organization as it gives a mechanical advantage..........I could be wrong, but not likely.


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Hunting, probably not.*



elkski said:


> how loud is it??? would it bother other shooters inside? hunting??


It does make an audible noise, but we have developed a "muffler" of sorts for indoors that is very effective for human ears. The design is currently being refined. Again, this is something that's not recommended for hunting, we couldn't guarantee a deer wouldn't hear it.


----------



## BigPete (Aug 13, 2005)

reylamb said:


> I can not see how this stabilizer would be legal in any archery organization as it gives a mechanical advantage..........I could be wrong, but not likely.


Agreed. Otherwise, it would be a very slippery slope.


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*mechanical advantage?*



BigPete said:


> Agreed. Otherwise, it would be a very slippery slope.


I suppose it's natural to be hesitant about new technology, but I'm not really buying the "mechanical advantage" theory. Isn't mechanical advantage exactly what you get from cams, mechanical release aids, and even conventional stabilizers? Even the earliest known arrow-propelling device, the atlatl, used the simplest mechanical advantage of all: the lever. In concept, attaching a gyro stabilizer to your bow is not that different than attaching a long conventional stabilizer, in that they both increase the "moment of inertia," if you will, of the system which helps hold the bow still. (naturally the physics are a little different so it's difficult to directly compare, and moment may not strictly be the correct term for both cases). And while it may work better than a conventional stabilizer, you still have to use proper mechanics and form and be consistent, or you still won't hit what you're aiming at. At any rate, I've taken brtesite's comments under advisement and I am trying to climb higher up the NFAA totem pole to determine what's really going on with the legality or not of this product under NFAA rules. Until such time as we receive more information, I respectfully request any comments about legality be temporarily shelved, unless you have new information to contribute. Thanks.


----------



## De-Gurl (Feb 4, 2007)

Do you think there is a possibility you might offer a model for hunters-quiet and stabilizes on one axis only (for hunters that shoot from trees stands as well as from the ground) or maybe disengages the other axis for tree-shooting?

_...just wondering..._


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*quiet vs. hunting quiet*



De-Gurl said:


> Do you think there is a possibility you might offer a model for hunters-quiet and stabilizes on one axis only (for hunters that shoot from trees stands as well as from the ground) or maybe disengages the other axis for tree-shooting?
> 
> _...just wondering..._


If someone wanted to try it for hunting I certainly couldn't stop them, however personally even if we slowed it down and muffled it I wouldn't want to trust that the trophy buck standing 25 yards away wouldn't hear it. Anything that spins makes some noise, even a relatively slow turning bicycle tire, and it's not a "natural" sound that you're likely to get away with. (Break a stick you still have a chance. Clank an aluminum arrow against the riser and you're done) I think putting it on a gimbal for shooting extreme elevation changes would be unnecessary, as you can still move the bow up/down and left/right, it just takes a little longer to make the elevation change. If someone wanted to try it and risk spooking their prey, I would be interested to find out what the results were, but I could never recommend it.


----------



## Oregon HG (Mar 22, 2008)

*Camo*



mcal0020 said:


> Since the main body is aluminum, colored anodizing is a possibility but would raise the product cost slightly, we'd have to check how much. For camo, we could look into some kind of decal system for an inexpensive alternative, though this product would not be recommended for hunting purposes. I understand you're probably trying to match your bow. We could look into a black finish that wouldn't clash.


Actually I am a decoration facility and we provide various camo and other patterns. www.o-hg.net Click on the phone # to see some of the available patterns!


----------



## Nippers (Feb 10, 2006)

Was the website disabled? I can't access it. I'm using Camino. I'll try Firefox and see.

:sad:


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Website temporarily down*



Nippers said:


> Was the website disabled? I can't access it. I'm using Camino. I'll try Firefox and see.
> 
> :sad:


The website is unfortuneately down at the moment. We hope to have the new site up in the next couple of days, updated and with more pictures and descriptions of the product. I'll let everyone here know as soon as its up.


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Website back up*

OK, the new site is up and running, I hope everyone goes to check it out (link below). I think most of the glitches are out, let me know if you find anything. I tried to put up a lot more pictures, we still don't have video yet but we'll try to get some. Also new, we're offering a larger capacity battery for those of you who wanted more shots/charge.

http://www.maxx300.com


----------



## Nippers (Feb 10, 2006)

Now it's saying "page can't be found"

Not destined for me:sad::sad::sad:


----------



## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

mcal0020 said:


> All I can tell you is that when I contacted the central NFAA office they would only refer me to my local rep, who in a series of emails told me that it IS LEGAL for freestyle and freestyle limited classes. Having the same concerns about showing up at a shoot and being DQ'ed, I specifically asked if this was an official ruling, which he said it was. If you still have concerns, I strongly recommend you contact the local rep in your area. The list can be found at the following link http://www.nfaa-archery.org/about/directors.cfm


Yeah Mikey, contact your local rep!!!!!


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Thanks for reporting*



Nippers said:


> Now it's saying "page can't be found"
> 
> Not destined for me:sad::sad::sad:


Thanks for reporting the issue, this problem seems to be regional, we have to contact our webhost to find exactly what the problem is.


----------



## leintz (Apr 24, 2003)

*gyro....*

about 4 years ago....
some pictures...
http://www.hot.ee/leintz1/Plokkvibu/blackman.html#7


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

leintz said:


> about 4 years ago....
> some pictures...
> http://www.hot.ee/leintz1/Plokkvibu/blackman.html#7


Wow, not sure how you found that, I most certainly never saw it. Are they actually marketing the product, or is that just an experiment? I am not able to recognize the language that page is in, so I can't read any of the details. Send me a PM if you have more details


----------



## Nippers (Feb 10, 2006)

After searching, that website is written in Estonian.

Clued it when I typed in a word, got led to the translated website and they had prices for some of the items. (typed in the estonian word for "Blackman" apparently). Didn't have the part about the stabilizer and I don't know if they're marketing it.


----------



## mcal0020 (Mar 7, 2008)

*IBO clears Max-X for competition*

This time we went through all of the proper channels. Ken Watkins at IBO has tested the Max-X gyro stabilizer, and after their latest meeting he has recently informed us that the Max-X gyro stabilizer has been declared legal in the freestyle and freestyle limited classes. This is great news for us, check out our product at: http://www.maxx300.com


----------

