# String strands -- How many?



## tedzpony (May 15, 2007)

What factors go into deciding what size string? Rather than start some big debate, I just want to know what number of strands I need for a 70" Oly recurve pulling about 40# at the fingers, maybe slightly more.

That's my specific question, but more generally, is there a standard rule of thumb, and what is it based upon?

Thanks,


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## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

14 - 16 strands of DF97
18 - 20 strands of 8125
22 - 24 strands of 452

Cheers,
Pete


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Pete has good recommendations. 

You can go to 16 strands of 8125, bow weight won't be a problem.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

what about angel dyneema or majesty....same guidelines as 8125 or DF97?


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

jmvargas said:


> what about angel dyneema or majesty....same guidelines as 8125 or DF97?


Haven't used Dynaflight '97 before but I'm sure ASB Dyneema does fine with 20 - 22 strands. Maybe 18 - 20 strands for Majesty but I believe you'll need thinner diameter center serving. 18 strands with 250 denier Majesty serving gives me a rather tight fit with large throat G nocks.


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## takedown (Dec 29, 2004)

18 strands of Brownell TS1+ or XCEL & .018 center serving either Crown or Diamondback. XCEL has very little stretch.

All the materials are strong enough so my consideration is how many strands with a given center serving will give proper nock tension.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

jmvargas said:


> what about angel dyneema or majesty....same guidelines as 8125 or DF97?


.....i would appreciate a more specific answer to the above question pls?.....or if not then similar guidelines for the angel majesty and dyneema......thanks..


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

...and doesn't the color affect the strand diameter and, thus, the thickness of serving needed? IIRC, white is the thinest and fluorescent is the thickest, with the strength staying the same.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

jmvargas said:


> .....i would appreciate a more specific answer to the above question pls?.....or if not then similar guidelines for the angel majesty and dyneema......thanks..


Majsesty-18 to 20 strands -I use 18 with the .21 Center serving for my large pin nocks


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## wmt3rd (Oct 20, 2004)

To tag onto Jim C, I use 20 strands of Majesty with 0.19 Halo center serving for large G nocks. 18 strands resulted in the nock fit being too loose.

Mack


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

20 strands Majesty with the lighter weight Majesty serving, to fit Mckinney pin nocks. They also fit large beiter, but be warned the beiter is a tighter fit than the mckinney nocks.


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## triskadecaepyon (Jun 7, 2007)

For the Angel string route... 

If you want it to fit large pin nocks or large beiter nocks, use 18 strand Majestry and Majestry serving. Fits the nock perfectly.


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## Greg Bouras (Nov 17, 2006)

I use 16 strands on all my setups. I make and shoot strings using 8125, D-75, TS-1 and TS Plus. With 0.19” Halo serving a small groove G nock fits perfectly.

Quietest material and therefore the one I prefer is the TS-Plus. I have found all materials stretch a little off the jig. This has never been a problem since checking and adjusting brace height is part of post stringing pre- shooting check.


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## wmt3rd (Oct 20, 2004)

I also use TS1+ for my youngest daughter's strings (16 strand, small G nock), because of the most important reason of them all. It's blue. :wink:

Mack


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

thanks for the replies on the angel question....i have been using 18 strands for my 36#-40# set-ups and recently tried 16 strands of majesty on my 32# set-up.....workd good too!!.....


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## Jester[777] (Jun 15, 2007)

Most manufacturers have the number of reccomended strands on their sites, i know BCY does, and Angel tends to follow the same numbers as 452X. That being said, color does not affect string size in anyway I have seen, having made well over 100 strings myself for traditional, olympic, and multiple types of compound. 

What limbs are you using? I would reccomend either an Angel string with 22 strands/angel serving or a 452x string with 22 strands/halo serving. Using more strands with a smaller serving will give you a more consistant string speed rather than a slingshot action.

Remember that with Angel, lower brace heights tend to work better.

If you need a string in any material I would be more than willing to make it for you, but again I would reccoment 452X or Angel, I have used both and right now I use 452X 22 strands with .14 halo end serving and Angel center serving for grip, i have never shot a smoother string


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

hi jester....i have 32# long pse pro-elites and medium 36# and 40# winex and 38# xpression limbs.....thanks but i have a professional string maker who also makes all the strings for our national archery team....i just followed the manufacturer recommendations and also use the angel majesty serving.....


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## ecc (Nov 20, 2002)

the most important consideration is how well your nock fits the string. do small trial strings (you can do them on the jig ears and unwind string and serving after) to find out what that is. its more important than a strand or two of string.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

ecc said:


> the most important consideration is how well your nock fits the string. do small trial strings (you can do them on the jig ears and unwind string and serving after) to find out what that is. its more important than a strand or two of string.


Hey, that's good advice especially when trying out new serving or string material.


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## arc2x4 (Jun 4, 2007)

One thing I havent seen mentioned here is, IMHO, very important.

Going from a 16 strand D97 to a 14 strand I have seen an increase in the speed of my arrow, I have read here that another person who made such a change chronoed his arrows and found that the change from a 16 to a 14 strand string gave him an additional 10 FPS!!!

Now folks will go out and buy a new set of $600 limbs to get 2 or 3 fps and consider that to be money well spent, so I am surprised that the SIGNIFICANT speed difference fewer strands or a different material may make has not been mentioned, as though it was not important, 10 FPS faster with the same equipment, but a different string, is a huge difference.

As far as the nock fitting, that can be adjusted with a thicker serving, or different nocks, so that should not be the main criterea for number of strands.

My nexus shoots much better with the 14 strand string than it did with the 16, at my 20-30 meter sight setting I only have to hold on the top white ring of the target at 50 meters, instead of holding 5 feet above the target frame like I did with the 16 strand string.


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

arc2x4 said:


> One thing I havent seen mentioned here is, IMHO, very important.
> 
> Going from a 16 strand D97 to a 14 strand I have seen an increase in the speed of my arrow, I have read here that another person who made such a change chronoed his arrows and found that the change from a 16 to a 14 strand string gave him an additional 10 FPS!!!
> 
> Now folks will go out and buy a new set of $600 limbs to get 2 or 3 fps and consider that to be money well spent, so I am surprised that the SIGNIFICANT speed difference fewer strands or a different material may make has not been mentioned, as though it was not important, 10 FPS faster with the same equipment, but a different string, is a huge difference.


10 fps!  Not to cast doubt, but that sounds too fast for losing 2 strands. My findings and the findings of others is that 2 strands is more like 2 fps. Did that shooter switch string materials as well, say from fast flight to 8125? But, then again, 10 fps is 10 fps. That is some serious speed gain. 

I use strand count more for tuning than for speed. If an arrow shows stiff, then I'll use more brace height/strand count/bow weight to weaken. 

IIRC Ed Eliason was shooting a super low strand count string for field, something like 8 strands, and he has had super fast setups before.


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## arc2x4 (Jun 4, 2007)

I dont have a chrono, but the difference in the arrow speed for me is very noticeable, my hold over at 50 meters is like 6 feet less. My arrows seem to be flying better as well.

I'm just surprised that I don't read more about experimenting with the number of strands here


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

Not sure about anyone else, but I worry mainly about good nock fit. Only if I note tuning issues do I then start experimenting with strand count, and that usually means last resort, and I'm trying like heck to avoid new arrows.


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## tedzpony (May 15, 2007)

Okay, let me add-on to my question...

A few people here have said their biggest consideration is nock fit, so I'm wondering if there is a minimum number of strands for a given weight? Say, for example, at 40#, what is the lowest a person could go?

What are the considerations, other than nock fit?


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

*My experience with 40lb. Recurve Strings:*

tedzpony,
I shoot and a 68" Olympic Style recurve pulling the same weight with the (40+ a bit) as you (shoot compounds also, have two). I make my own strings and cables and have for some time. I find it best not to go plus or minus more than 2 strands from MFG recommendations or the string just doesn't perform as expected (can be quite unexpected, that sling shot effect already mentioned). I usually subtract 2 on my recurve (going 4 less is strong enough at 40lbs., but I did NOT like the inconsistent results with my groups).

Mostly, I had been shooting Dynaflite 97, 14 strands with Majesty .021 center serving (strong, smooth shooting with fingers and easy to make/maintain) and I still love that string. This config is for large groove easton G-Nocks and Pin Nocks. This also seems to fit (made Dynaflite 14 strand with same Majesty serving string for a friends recurve) Super Nocks just fine too because the Majesty serving won't flatten out through use like so many others. I used Halo .019 center serving when I shot my arrows with small groove nocks (fits many sm groove nocks), but seems loose with sm G-Nocks, so I'd leave one tag end all the way through under the serving to resolve this. 

Anyway, over the last 6 or so months I've been making my recurve strings with Angel Majesty and Majesty (.021 size) Center Servings (BCY 3D for end servings, but that's a .017 preference and very common). This config. will fit Lg Groove G-Nocks and the Lg Groove Pin Nocks I use (meaning it will fit super nocks ok also).

The ASB specs say 18 strands for small nocks, and 20 for large nocks.
However, my favorite Majesty preference is 18 strands, using Majesty .021 center (keep the brace height about 1/4-1/2 inch shorter than optimum as mentioned already or simply on the shorter side for your bow).
Truly, this string config is the sweetest I've ever shot on my recurve (carbon limbs). And, no problem reaching the target at 90 meters with consistent grouping (shaft and FOC/arrow weight help this too, sometimes an arrow too light will fall faster).

If you prefer small groove nocks however, as you are asking about how few strands you can use (maybe this is a flight issue?). 18 Strand Majesty with .019 halo will do it. I suspect, however you could use 16 strand Majesty and the .021 Majesty center serving (test the nock fit first), it would be strong enough at 40bls (the fewest I'd suggest if you really want to go low), but I don't think I'd recommend it. I'd recommend 12 Strand Dynaflite first, as it's a very strong string per strand, but I think you'd need .022-.024 center serving. But again, I just find unexpected and unexplained behavior and groupings any time I go with 4 strands less than recommended (recurve), but that's me.

As for other considerations:
Majesty's recommendation to shorten brace height is because it can supposedly be hard on limbs if you're choosing the higher of your optimum (However you won't feel it yourself, but your bow apparently will). This harshness on the bow is also a drawback of reducing recommended strands by more than 2 of any MFG's suggested. Usually the Majesty string is made slightly longer (1/4 inch more for me) as you twist it 20 to 40 times and ASB says it doesn't stretch, but will settle after shooting the first day and stay that way (are you making your own strings or am I assuming so?)
I use plain dental floss for my nockset, and glue it after the first day when I'm happy with it. After that the only thing I check is the brace height when I string the bow. A metal nockset will actuall slow your string down a tad (especially at 40lbs or less draw weight), losing some of the advantage of Majesty, if we're talking string/arrow speed.

Majesty is a no wax string (dispite what some packaging says). And, it doesn't fray (never has on me) like most dyneema and HMPE strings.
It's a resin bonded version of Angel Dyneema (you may already know all this, sorry), but if you take a piece of leather (or thick piece of paper) and burnish the string to heat it up like you were rubbing in wax, it will smooth itself out like no other string (almost like a single strand string) because of this resin bonding process that protects it from the elements. Not needing wax means the string will not change weight and shoot consistently through it's life.
Keep in mind, ASB Dyneema is NOT resin bonded like Angel Majesty, and it's lifespan is short though it is slightly Faster than Majesty (I hear, haven't wanted to deal with it, as it's easily affected by the elements).

I personally don't recommend any Dyneema and Vectran mix strings for your recurve however, they are definitely slower strings and best suited for Compounds, especially cables as many don't creep at all (because of the vectran). Though they can also have a soft feel to them, too slow. 
My (modern) recurve choice is any 100% SK75 Dyneema (Dynaflight BCY is my choice, but haven't tried all) or Angel Majesty. Majesty just feels the softest and fastest, so I use that now. 8125 isn't ALL SK75, but it's a great string and there's a thinner version now (I haven't tried myself). They require as many strands or more as Majesty, so unless you want colored strings, I think Majesty is a better string (shoots like a dream). It sounded as though you were interested in Majesty anyway. It's an awesome and very popular string for Olympic Style Recurves of late. 

Sorry for the long post. Hope it's more help than bother.
This is mostly just my experience and yet another opinion as I shoot the same draw weight as you with my recurve (just 2 inches shorter bow).


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## puddin (Aug 8, 2004)

takedown said:


> 18 strands of Brownell TS1+ or XCEL & .018 center serving either Crown or Diamondback. XCEL has very little stretch.
> 
> All the materials are strong enough so my consideration is how many strands with a given center serving will give proper nock tension.


18 strands of Xcell is a rather thin string. i would say between 20-22 . it has lower stretch then any other material i have ever made strings with even though others claim to be less. this has the lowest ive even experienced.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

hi raptorX...thanks for your very informative post on the angels(dyneema and majesty) which are the only strings i have ever used since i started serious shooting fita recurve in 2004.....have always used 18-strands on my 36#-40# limb set-ups with good success and now 16-strands on my 32# limbs with similar results..... started with angel dyneemas and switched to majesty when it came out but i still have some dyneema spools so will just use them till they run out........


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

*Majesty Center Serving*

Thanks, jmvargas
I'm glad the post was useful. To add to the Majesty material, although the Majesty Serving is expensive, it's unique quality is my favorite aspect and it's worth it. It holds it's shape and doesn't ever flatten out, yet due to it's construction it's very smooth at release (I love it). It's so smooth off the fingers (well, tab) but not slick feeling. I find the same love for Halo with small nock groves, but prefer Majesty.

I hear Crown is also extremely slick off the fingers, but I understand it flattens out , and that worries me as I don't want my nockset to slip or move. I like to tie on my nocksets with plain dental floss and soak it with a super glue type gel (fast drying), the Floss tied loops (tied the way George Ryals shows on his Tuning DVD, that trick opened my eyes to a new method but I use all dental floss for my recurve and soak the whole thing with Loctite Super Glue Gel) stick in the Majesty serving grooves and stay put. If the Majesty string settles after a day or so, the nockset on the Majesty serving will be nothing but slightly high so I'll just tie a few loops under the existing and back-tie again to add that extra 1/8" at most. It will only need this once, if at all. 

I've tried over the years other material for tying on nocksets (avoiding the metal crimp ons, or other (beiter served in is a hassle to me)). Recommended thin serving materials such as braided nylon (braided because I was advised the mono would move/slip too much or wasn't as effective, can't remember) with over-under ties on alternate sides, then soak in super glue. So often, super glues can separate due to tab use and string vibration, and your nockset creeps or twists up (for me it would twist up) or down depending on the direction and or rotation you tied your center serving. This can be a benefit to adjust it (just start twisting hard and the glue you used will separate enough the nockset acts like a nut screwing up and down on a bolt thread. Adjustable I thought was cool, and once set I'd just dab more glue at the top of it to hold it in place. But, I found a draw back by trusting it...

Using that over-under tied braided nylon version nockset a while back, before the method I use now with Dental Floss. I was shooting one day at my usual range, no wind, usual sight settings, shooting well. Started with some ends at 30, then shot some ends at 50, and although I noticed about 3 shots in my last end at 50 high (about three, It didn't occur to me at that moment it was a progression and I naturally attributed it to the archer-me). I moved to 70 meters. First shot was bad release/form, a high 2, shook my head and laughed. My second shot, was, uh 4 feet high. The arrow hit the wood beam above the target bails, and was destroyed.
DIng, ding, ding!
Whipped out the bow square and sure enough the nock screwed itself up over the last end at 50 and was 1/2" plus too high and it was twisting up higher with each release (slinging the shot up into a flyer and creating a fletch clearance issue along the way as well). Whatever, I adjusted it back, glued the daylights out of it and kept shooting. But with so much glue on it after that I didn't like the feel. Then, I saw George Ryals do his tie (he learned from a friend who's nickname I shouldn't mention), and started using that method basically, only tying a longer length down to the nock point and back tying the dental floss half way back up, then back down and pulling that tag end through with the extra loop used under the tied loops to the other side (the whole thing is about a 1/2 inch approximately in length). Glue in place (cover the whole thing with super glue gel and smooth out so it's protected from weather and rock solid adheared). It's low profile so fingers don't feel it, and its a perfectly working consistent nockset.
Anyway, this is my preference. Always nice to hear how or what others use.
Graphic Below:


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

*Recarding the nockset*

...Of course, when I make the string the first thing I do is string the bow and set my brace height. Then I tie on a 4-6 loop single temporary with the dental floss (no glue) and paper tune in the garage for the exact location of where I want the nockset to be. Mark directly under the optimum location w/pencil (easy to see as I use Black Majesty string and White Majesty serving). Then take off the temporary and tie on the permanent down to the pencil mark.

Never good to tie and glue on a permanent nockset and think you got it right with the bow square the first time.

_BB


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