# CD Archery WF 19 & Border Archery Hex 7 H Limbs (VIDEO)



## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Here is a little video I got done yesterday afternoon 

Super nice rig very pleased 

Happy Memorial Day and thank you to all active and non active Military Personal for all of their sacrifices


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> Here is a little video I got done yesterday afternoon
> 
> Super nice rig very pleased
> 
> Happy Memorial Day and thank you to all active and non active Military Personal for all of their sacrifices


Okay Joe...Here's what I see doing "Freeze Frames" with you at full draw with both bows...

The WF19 Rig: It's kind of hard to detect because of the limb tip protector on you lower limb but to me?....it seems that while the upper limb tip is rolling out too a "Straight-Up" position?...the lower limb tip appears to still have a very slight curve forward in it...which tells me you may want to take the tiller from the 1/8" you have it at now too 1/4" positive by either tightening the lower limb bolt or loosening the upper limb bolt about 1/4 turn.

The CH Rig: From what I'm seeing?...the limb tips on the CH are not rolling out as far as the limb tips on the WF19 as both limb tips on the CH still have a slight roll forward to them while at full draw...but the CH limbs do appear very well timed as they should be with the CH being a bolt-down bow where there is no adjustment available.

I don't think it would be fair to render an opinion regarding "Which is Quieter" as you were positioned closer too the camera with the CH but they both seemed extremely quiet too me especially taking into consideration the extreme hooks of those rather radical limbs you have there. 

BTW...it was easiest to witness on the last (3rd) shot with each rig as it was then that both limb tips on both bows were back dropped by the white cement and those hooks are "very telling" of what's happening with execution.

Good vid man...maybe play around with the timing a bit more on the WF19 as suggested above and make another vid of it in slo-mo?

so hopefully?...cya soon. Bill. :cool2:


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

A quick comparison shot taken from the video between the CH and the ILF WF 19 

Are the limbs working similar ? 

WF 19 Hex 7H ILF Limbs 



Covert Hunter Hex 7H Limbs


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> A quick comparison shot taken from the video between the CH and the ILF WF 19
> 
> Are the limbs working similar ?
> 
> ...


Yep...just like I saw and stated above...you're getting more roll-out with the WF19 rig but you either need to loosen the upper limb bolt or tighten the lower limb bolt to get them as well timed as your CH.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

JINKSTER said:


> Okay Joe...Here's what I see doing "Freeze Frames" with you at full draw with both bows...
> 
> The WF19 Rig: It's kind of hard to detect because of the limb tip protector on you lower limb but to me?....it seems that while the upper limb tip is rolling out too a "Straight-Up" position?...the lower limb tip appears to still have a very slight curve forward in it...which tells me you may want to take the tiller from the 1/8" you have it at now too 1/4" positive by either tightening the lower limb bolt or loosening the upper limb bolt about 1/4 turn.
> 
> ...


Good eye Bill 

Amazing what pics and video reveals 

Thx


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I am pleased thus far because I do believe with further tweaking on the WF limbed bow I can get very close to the optimal working configuration of the limb 

Rember my CH is a 60 inch bow and made for my draw and to optimize the Hex 7 limb 

The WF 19 bow is a 62 inch bow and I believe I am getting very close


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

JINKSTER said:


> Yep...just like I saw and stated above...you're getting more roll-out with the WF19 rig but you either need to loosen the upper limb bolt or tighten the lower limb bolt to get them as well timed as your CH.


Gonna give it a little twist 

Maybe a tad on each end

They say God is in the details


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Good video JP.

As to your question as to how they compare, the WF19 combo actually sounded a little quieter to me but then again you were a little farther away from the camera.

As to the "roll-out," it's hard to tell, but looking at the string/limb angles, you seem to be getting a little more rollout with the CH than you do with the ILF.

















KPC


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## Belicoso (Aug 22, 2006)

Are you sensitive for riser flex?
While switching between both bows do you notice riser flex on the CH?


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## Todd the archer (Feb 7, 2003)

Great video as always! The possible difference in "roll out" could be the fact the WF19 is about 7 pounds lighter in draw weight and you may drawing it a bit deeper.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

GEREP said:


> Good video JP.
> 
> As to your question as to how they compare, the WF19 combo actually sounded a little quieter to me but then again you were a little farther away from the camera.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kevin 

They are very close in sound to my ear 

Being that the CH riser is optimized for the limb and that the length of the CH optimizizes my draw length I am thrilled that I am getting close with the WF 

Thank you for the comments


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Belicoso said:


> Are you sensitive for riser flex?
> While switching between both bows do you notice riser flex on the CH?


Due to the carbon and phenolic in the CH riser I could drive over it with a truck and it wouldn't flex  

Both extremely rigid risers


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Todd the archer said:


> Great video as always! The possible difference in "roll out" could be the fact the WF19 is about 7 pounds lighter in draw weight and you may drawing it a bit deeper.


Todd those limbs on the CH are my 48+ pounders not my 52's but he's a few pounds does make a difference and I agree 

One thing about the Hex 7 limb is that once it's back it tricks the brain into thinking you are holding lighter 

At least for me


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## Buffalo freak (Jul 29, 2012)

Great stuff as always JP. 

Like I said that WF gets better and better all the time haha

Them border limbs are something I sure am gunna have to save up for and purchase before next season. 

Congratulations on another beautiful recurve to add to your stable


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

Those are a couple of great looking bows. The profile of those limbs really compliment the looks imo. 

Your bows sound very quiet. I noticed you only put a little patch of velcro by the string grooves? Any reason not to cover the entire groove like a regular limb?

Thank for putting the video together. Very entertaining to watch. Great video!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Buffalo freak said:


> Great stuff as always JP.
> 
> Like I said that WF gets better and better all the time haha
> 
> ...


Thanks buddy I appreciate the kind words


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Stub said:


> Those are a couple of great looking bows. The profile of those limbs really compliment the looks imo.
> 
> Your bows sound very quiet. I noticed you only put a little patch of velcro by the string grooves? Any reason not to cover the entire groove like a regular limb?
> 
> Thank for putting the video together. Very entertaining to watch. Great video!


Stub 

My first CH that was Sid Sr's bow had that done to it and I have been doing it on my Hex Limbs since 

I am only speculating on this so maybe Sid will jump in 

The piece of calf skin is where the string would slap the limb 

I do not cover the string track because of the way the string coils like around the limb I do not want to block the track if that makes sense 

Thanks for the kind words


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

The CH has quite a bit of deflex to the handle.
I dont know the deflex on the WF riser. But deflex plays with the amount the limbs are pulled back.
you cant take angles for angles...


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## Cwilder (Jun 4, 2006)

Me like


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## Breathn (Jun 12, 2005)

Nice work and great video to show how to get full potential from the hex limbs..


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## drawemback (Dec 6, 2006)

Great video as always Joe. The WF looks great with those limbs. Can't wait to get my WF; setting them up with plain ole TT carbon /woods...


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## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

Good presentation...that probably would have taken months' worth of collecting tidbits from print media to get a lesser overview.

As far as pictures go, IMO things have to be rather precise for comparison. FWI, I've studied countless archery pictures and a slight difference in camera angle can fool the eye...with both recurves and longbows. Toeing the same line, fixed on the same target and a relatively clean background would probably increase the potential of superimposing lines. Of course, I would never go to such extremes...but I have been known to sleep with my bows. Enjoy, Rick.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

drawemback said:


> Great video as always Joe. The WF looks great with those limbs. Can't wait to get my WF; setting them up with plain ole TT carbon /woods...


Thank you buddy and the TT carbon wood are awesome limbs


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

rickstix said:


> Good presentation...that probably would have taken months' worth of collecting tidbits from print media to get a lesser overview.
> 
> As far as pictures go, IMO things have to be rather precise for comparison. FWI, I've studied countless archery pictures and a slight difference in camera angle can fool the eye...with both recurves and longbows. Toeing the same line, fixed on the same target and a relatively clean background would probably increase the potential of superimposing lines. Of course, I would never go to such extremes...but I have been known to sleep with my bows. Enjoy, Rick.


Thanks Rick 

I always say this is not a scientific test  I have garnered some info thou and will dial in a tad bit more positive tiller 

What's wrong with sleeping with your bows


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Joe...question here...and I'm not trying to get into anything bad here just truly curious....

I know the CH takes a non-standard string length AMO wise despite it's being listed as a 62"er?...correct?...and mediums on the WF19 make a 62"er and that's what you have there correct?...(or are they shorts on the WF19?)...so my questions here are....

1. Are the limbs on the CH considered Mediums?

2. What is the NTN length of both these rigs when Strung and Braced?

T.I.A. Bill. :cool2:


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Don't be silly that's what these threads are for information 

My CH's are 60 inch bows 

17 inch riser 

Medium limbs 

The take a 59 inch string 

This WF 19 as you know is a 19 inch riser 

The Hex 7H limbs are mediums also 

This is a 62 inch bow 

It takes a 61 inch string 

Hope that helps


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> Don't be silly that's what these threads are for information
> 
> My CH's are 60 inch bows
> 
> ...


Cool...thanks Joe...so the WF19 is in fact 2"s longer than the 17" risered CH...all questions answered...thank you.


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## olddogrib (Apr 4, 2014)

Joe, 
Thanks, another great video. Subjectively, the WF sounded a bit quieter to me, but with the advantage of boatloads of mass, that may not be a surprise if that theory held up. Sid told me too that padding the full length of the string grooves is unnecessary. Not trying to start any arguments. I know everyone has their preferences and it may be more critical with super hooks, but I had a very expensive set of limbs "unstring" themselves after a shot. It was not the first after stringing it, so I know the string was seated in the limb tip notches and centered properly to begin with. I thought I'd "screwed the pooch" and sent the whole works back to another very well respected bowyer. I was lucky and got out with a heli-coil replacement that did exactly what it was supposed to do. The bowyer told me the likely culprit was the humongous amount of yarn warp I had on the string ends. I removed it and have had no more trouble...my heart probably wouldn't withstand another incident like that anyway, lol!


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

olddogrib said:


> Joe,
> Thanks, another great video. Subjectively, the WF sounded a bit quieter to me, but with the advantage of boatloads of mass, that may not be a surprise if that theory held up. Sid told me too that padding the full length of the string grooves is unnecessary. Not trying to start any arguments. I know everyone has their preferences and it may be more critical with super hooks, but I had a very expensive set of limbs "unstring" themselves after a shot. It was not the first after stringing it, so I know the string was seated in the limb tip notches and centered properly to begin with. I thought I'd "screwed the pooch" and sent the whole works back to another very well respected bowyer. I was lucky and got out with a heli-coil replacement that did exactly what it was supposed to do. The bowyer told me the likely culprit was the humongous amount of yarn warp I had on the string ends. I removed it and have had no more trouble...my heart probably wouldn't withstand another incident like that anyway, lol!


this is for information.... not for arguments sake....

string grooves are an added expense in the manufacture.
they are there to position the string in the middle of the limb EVERY time.
if you shoot a recurve that doesn't have them, you can place the string in different locations based on how clean your release is.
add string grooves and it centralises every time. 
That's why recurves have string grooves.


as for noise levels.

Things that can effect noise
Nock fit. 
String silencers distance from the centre of the string.
Amount of string silencers.
arrow mass.
tiller.
how you pressure through the grip

Assuming the person is the same.
2 archers with the same draw length, can shoot the same bow with different noise levels.

but also the tune of the shaft to the bow.

there is a lot that can change the noise.

I seem to always skip nock tightness when asking questions. that's a personal one I tend to overlook.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Thanks Olddog 

I am not a big fan of anything but the string in the grooves on a Super recurve just cueca use of the tracking Part of it 

I have no idea and have sent a message to The SIDS to ask 

I am using a pretty sensitive Rhode Mic and it really picks up sound well 

Most of my video work is done with a Go Pro and The Rhode Mic setup 



It really picks up the sounds of things 

You can hear my nock snap on the string ..... You can even hear the wax creep as the string lifts off the limb 

To my ear the CH is a lower sounding thud and the WF is a bit higher pitched 

Thx for the comments


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Borderbows said:


> this is for information.... not for arguments sake....
> 
> string grooves are an added expense in the manufacture.
> they are there to position the string in the middle of the limb EVERY time.
> ...


All great points 

Really enjoying the Limbs buddy 

Thx


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Serious question JP.

A little background first. I hear it mentioned often that because of the design of the Hex limbs, in order to get the most out of them in terms of performance, there is a specific "window" when it comes to draw length, limb length, riser length, and limb pad angles. It makes sense that in order to get the optimum "roll-out," all these things would have to be watched carefully.

Hence my question. In your opinion, because of the nature of the ILF connection, and it's availability on such a large variety of riser designs, lengths, geometries, etc., do you think that the Hex limbs are better suited for a proprietary riser, where those things can be more closely controlled? 

In my opinion, part of the genius of ILF is that the components are designed to a large extent to be universal, and therefore those components should be able to function at a relatively high level, on a wide variety of platforms. ILF, if not by definition, certainly by function, is a big compromise, and the components that are designed to work with that system are mostly designed with that compromise in mind. In other words, in your opinion, does it makes sense to attach a "universal" connection to a set of limbs when the design of the limbs requires such a small operating window in order to have them perform at their optimum level? Are you not in effect buying a set of limbs for one riser? Would a "super recurve" limb design be better served with it's own "super" platform? 

I'm pretty simple, but I see it kind of like an engine design that generates substantially more torque than all it's predecessors. If you wanted to actually utilize and realize all that extra torque, would you not have to redesign all the other components down the line in order to handle it? After all, if a new engine design is producing 650 ft-lb of torque, and the old U-joint will only handle 500 ft-lb of torque, either you are going to have to redesign the U-Joints or put a governor on the engine. 

KPC


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

JINKSTER said:


> Cool...thanks Joe...so the WF19 is in fact 2"s longer than the 17" risered CH...all questions answered...thank you.


Here you go Bill


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm going to drop the Brace on the WF a tad and add a tad more pos tiller 

I'm also waiting for a slightly thicker Strike Plate from Dan and my Raw shafts and I will finish it up 

All in all really over the top happy with the WF 19 and the Hex 7 H IlF


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

Joe, great video..love the looks of the Hex7 limbs....keep it up buddy.

Dewayne


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Good question Kevein and I am not qualified yo answer it and hopefully SID will 

But I'll tell you my opinion which should be taken with a grain of salt 

True the Hex 7 is such a step away from the norm that it seems to perform its best on a riser that was designed for its unique design characteristics but ............l look how well it is performing on my WF 19 

Quiet 

Fast 

Beyond smooth 

I am getting the exact feel that I get on my CH which is what makes the Hex 7 so desirable to me 

I believe the Titan would fair very well with the Hex 7's also 

Another riser that seems a likely candidate would be the WW carbon Hunter I believe it is the RCX 

I have just begin to tinker with this setup and after seeing my own videos and speaking with Sid I know where to tweak it 

Remember due to my upcoming schedule with my work and the upcoming Blade show where I am kicking off a few MasterSmith Projects and running ThE DISKIN USA booth I knew I was going to be jammed the next 10 days till I leave and I threw this setup together quickly 

It speaks volumes of how easy these limbs are to setup and how spine tolerant they actually are

Remember I had no 5oo spine shafts and grabbed a set that was tuned for a friends bow that I made quickly and while they are definitely close I have not bare shafted this rig yet and can only expect this thing yo even get better  

I do believe that there are a few risers that will perform well with the Hex 7's out there right now 

If I know Border they are also probable working on an ILf HEX specific Riser as we speak 

Which possible will push all limbs in a positive way 

Border themselves says that the CH is at its best as a bolt down but most bows when truly custom made as in limb design etc are slightly better as a bolt down in many people's opinions 

As far as the design being designed as universal and are the Hex 7 to far out of the box ? 

It has proven at least to me that it is 

A brand new cutting edge ILF Riser from a different company is working extremely well with the ILF Hex 7 limbs 

I'm all for out of the box and if Border wants to take the lead in updating the ILf world I believe they will have a very long customer list waiting to take the next step 

Good question that for the comment


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

vabowdog said:


> Joe, great video..love the looks of the Hex7 limbs....keep it up buddy.
> 
> Dewayne


Dewayne I am so pumped this combo is working out so well 

I really love the riser 

While I have ya 

What is the thread count on your very well made bolts 

Some have asked how I am getting such adjustability 

Some risers offer 3 turns some offer 5 

The WF offers 7 

Is it the same amount of movement on the WF as say the Tiatan but just finer thread ? 

Again great riser and I am very happy


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> Here you go Bill


Thanks Joe!...and Kev?...



GEREP said:


> Serious question JP.
> 
> A little background first. I hear it mentioned often that because of the design of the Hex limbs, in order to get the most out of them in terms of performance, there is a specific "window" when it comes to draw length, limb length, riser length, and limb pad angles. It makes sense that in order to get the optimum "roll-out," all these things would have to be watched carefully.
> 
> ...


I know my name isn't Joe and I'll also say that for the lions share of ILF products?...you do make some valid points however?....

The WF19 ILF riser isn't your garden variety ILF Riser...as there are no compromises and it breaks all the rules where limb control and adjust-ability are concerned.

It's very shallow 15deg limb pad angles coupled with "Bushing-Less" limb bolts with over-sized heads allow for a whopping 7 full turns worth of adjustment and it's nearly straight geometry heavy mass riser make for a super solid foundation to get the most out of any set of limbs...so please forgive me for taking slight offense at your use of the word "compromise" as it relates too the WF19 riser...because imho?....it has none...actually?...quite the opposite.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> What is the thread count on your very well made bolts?


My name isn't Dewayne but?...I'll take 5/16-18 for $500 Chuck! :laugh:

PS/Edit: Oh...and just as an aside?...

Typically NF (fine thread) has more holding power where it comes to all things "Steel"...but when it comes too your softer alloys like Aluminum?

"NC" (National Course) is where it's at....which is what 5/16-18 is...where "NF" would be 5/16-24 rendering more surface area contact but a much shallower thread pitch.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Bill what's the average on most risers ? 

The same ?


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> Bill what's the average on most risers ?
> 
> The same ?


I really have no clue as I'm really kind of new at this ILF stuff and I only ever owned two other ILF risers...my Excel and the PSE Zone...but I do know this...

Speaking as a life-long aerospace machinist?...unless it's some hard azz jig plate or T-7 grade aluminum?...unless it's a real unique situation that mandates such?...we hardly ever use anything other than course threads when making aluminum fixtures as fine threads?....have a very shallow thread engagement and just doesn't work out so swell with softer aluminums.

It's like this....could you imagine putting a fine thread in wood?...it would strip out in no time and that would be if you didn't manage to cross-thread it right from jump street....wood screws have an extremely course thread...but on the other side of the spectrum?...you have the oh so small world of "Gun Thread"....where say a 6-32 would be a course screw and a 6-40 would be a fine screw?...a #6 in "Gun Screw" would be 6-48.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Good info thx Bill


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> Good info thx Bill


Your very welcome...my pleasure after all you shared with me over the years.


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## olddogrib (Apr 4, 2014)

Sid,
Thanks for the clarifications, I hope no one was mislead by my wording. My post was merely an attempt to agree with Joe in response to placement of felt under the string at the limb tips. I've used felt under approx. the last four inches or wool wraps on the string ends themselves for many years with no issues. But when two of the foremost names in traditional archery tell me the same thing, i.e. that attempting to silence a string with any method that might impede the ability of the string to reliably track in the center grooves might be counter-productive, I adjust my way of thinking. I believe the illustration when we discussed it, Sid, was the string is wrapping the limb tip (essentially "reeling" it in) along the radiused portion. The only area where "slap" might occur would be the small unsupported section where the string leaves the limb at brace (where Joe has his felt) I suspect all the factors Sid mentioned play a comparatively bigger role in perceived noise than "string slap", but we bowhunters tend have a lot of OCD tendencies.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Olddog 

Good stuff 

Some more bow porn


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Thanks guys. 

I would imagine that "a" set of Hex 7's can be fit to any ILF riser (within reason) so as to perform at their optimum. 

I guess my question was more toward what would happen going forward with the "same" set. Using JP as an example, lets say he wanted to use those limbs on his 17" Black Magic riser? Or a 21" Das Riser? or a 13" Morrison, or a 25" Hoyt? With his draw length, a set of medium conventional ILF recurve limbs would work quite well on all 4 of those risers. However, because of what people describe as the narrow operating (roll-out) window of the Hex limbs, how would the same set of limbs fare on all 4 of those risers. Would they perform as well on each riser as a conventional recurve limb would? Better? Worse? Would you get the same feel from a set of medium Hex 7's on a 25" riser as you would on a 17" riser?

That's why I was wondering if you want or expect them to perform at their optimum, is the Hex 7 more of a one riser limb? 

KPC


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

Joe, the limb bolts are 3/8"-16 stainless steel bolts that are custom made just for these risers...I've ran them as much as 9 turns out on the WF 25 but don't recommend anything over7 turns out from bottom on either the Wf19 or WF 25.

There are 14 threads on the bolts...so if there's 7 out there's 7 in...we liked the coarser thread of the 16 TPI because of the much deeper threads...I've seen some of the really fine threads completely strip out.


Hope this helps,


Dewayne


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

vabowdog said:


> Joe, the limb bolts are 3/8"-16 stainless steel bolts that are custom made just for these risers...I've ran them as much as 9 turns out on the WF 25 but don't recommend anything over7 turns out from bottom on either the Wf19 or WF 25.
> 
> There are 14 threads on the bolts...so if there's 7 out there's 7 in...we liked the coarser thread of the 16 TPI because of the much deeper threads...I've seen some of the really fine threads completely strip out.
> 
> ...


Dangit!...missed again! LOL!...sorry about that miss-info Joe & Dewane...knew I should've grabbed my readers and calipers!...instead I just looked at the threads on the locking set-screw and counted threads against a tape measure and?...wrongo! :embara:


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## Homey88 (Dec 10, 2013)

Wow! Great video Joe! Those are two really quiet bows! I can't tell the difference in sound! You have a couple of sweet shooters there!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

vabowdog said:


> Joe, the limb bolts are 3/8"-16 stainless steel bolts that are custom made just for these risers...I've ran them as much as 9 turns out on the WF 25 but don't recommend anything over7 turns out from bottom on either the Wf19 or WF 25.
> 
> There are 14 threads on the bolts...so if there's 7 out there's 7 in...we liked the coarser thread of the 16 TPI because of the much deeper threads...I've seen some of the really fine threads completely strip out.
> 
> ...


Impressive buddy and thank you


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

GEREP said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I would imagine that "a" set of Hex 7's can be fit to any ILF riser (within reason) so as to perform at their optimum.
> 
> ...


I guess it would all depend on riser geometry etc 

I believe the WF has the same limb pocket angle as the Titan 3 just more adjustment 

So that means they should work with the above risers you mentioned 

I'm just excited to see what is coming next in the way of limbs and risers 

As Rusty said on TT it's a very exciting time in single string archery and I believe the folks at Border are on the cutting edge 

I sat in a turkey blind this evening and even thou we didn't get a turkey it was awesome to be shooting a bow that I could shoot vertical because of its short working envelope ...... Great confidence booster


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

JINKSTER said:


> Dangit!...missed again! LOL!...sorry about that miss-info Joe & Dewane...knew I should've grabbed my readers and calipers!...instead I just looked at the threads on the locking set-screw and counted threads against a tape measure and?...wrongo! :embara:



No worries Jinks it sounded good


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Homey88 said:


> Wow! Great video Joe! Those are two really quiet bows! I can't tell the difference in sound! You have a couple of sweet shooters there!



Thanks Homey 

Any chance you will make Denton this year 

Forgive me if I already asked


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## Homey88 (Dec 10, 2013)

Joe I have never been to Denton would love to get there one of these years. To be honest with you it has been quite some time since I have shot a 3-D. This year is going to be rough I'm getting my house ready to sell and I getting married next month. So most of my free time is busting my butt to get my house ready to sell. I do have to catch up and shoot with you sometime.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Congratulations on the wedding buddy 

Would love to shoot with you


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## Homey88 (Dec 10, 2013)

Thanks Joe I appreciate it. When things slow down we will have to get together for a shoot


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

JParanee said:


> I guess it would all depend on riser geometry etc
> 
> I believe the WF has the same limb pocket angle as the Titan 3 just more adjustment
> 
> ...


I am too JP. 

What has transpired in the shorter ILF hunting/traditional riser world is nothing short of amazing. Since the introduction of Morrison's 18" ILF riser and TradTech's 17" Titan (believe it or not, less than a decade ago), ILF offerings have become the fastest growing segment of the traditional hunting market. In my opinion there are several reasons for this but they all pale in comparison to one, the ability to mix and match components from a variety of different manufacturers.

I said, from the time I was asked to take part in the prototype process of the Titan, that while all the adjustment and tuning options are nice, what was really going to drive the growth in this market was the universal nature of the connection, and the ability to switch between immediately available, reasonably priced (sometimes even ridiculously low priced,), great performing components of different designs, profiles and looks. Not to mention a used market the size of well, the entire globe. A lot of people seemed to be, and still are, tiring of the one-off, often expensive, custom ordered, wait for months or years to receive, offerings that were available at the time. The idea that a person could choose a specific riser like the WF19, a Titan, or a Morrison Phoenix, decide on a set great performing limbs that fit his draw and weight requirements, and have them on his doorstep in a week or less is very appealing. If that person decides to try something different, there is a vast market out there of other people willing to buy, sell, and trade for virtually anything that will click together.

All this brings me to the reason I asked the question I did. It had nothing to do with feel, performance, quality or cost. I am just wondering if the Hex series of limbs, that have such a narrow operating/performance window, really lend themselves to a universal connection like ILF, or would they be better served, not only to the individual archer but to Border themselves, in a proprietary system like the Covert Hunter?

It's only a matter of time before the original owners of the ILF Hex 7 limbs start using them on risers that they didn't originally buy them for, or worse yet sell them to someone else to use them on their ILF risers, that the small operating window that many, including Border describe is going to manifest itself. Mark my words on this one JP, it's only a matter of time before someone sees a set of Hex 6 or Hex 7 limbs in the classifieds, wants to experience all the really great things they read about them, and are disappointed when the long Hex 7's that some guy bought to go with his 23" riser doesn't impress him at his 26" draw. As a matter of fact, they don't perform, feel, or sound any better, maybe even worse, than the 200.00 Sebastian Flutes that he was shooting. Or worse yet, the guy with the 30" draw thinking he can turbocharge a set of shorts by clicking them into a 15" riser. The fact that he's using them totally inappropriately doesn't matter to him. All he knows is he just spent 6 or 7 bills for set of limbs that were supposed to be "all that." and probably *are* if used correctly, and they aren't performing any better than what he had, or fold into his forehead at full draw. He's just going to go to his favorite shoot, or get online and ***** to everyone who will listen. 

I'm just not sure Border wants to spend their time defending their design against what will inevitably happen.

That's what prompted my question on this thread JP. As you know, I'm as fascinated by the marketing aspects as I am about the performance aspects of the new offerings. I was just curious as to what your opinion was.

KPC


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

GEREP said:


> I am too JP.
> 
> What has transpired in the shorter ILF hunting/traditional riser world is nothing short of amazing. Since the introduction of Morrison's 18" ILF riser and TradTech's 17" Titan (believe it or not, less than a decade ago), ILF offerings have become the fastest growing segment of the traditional hunting market. In my opinion there are several reasons for this but they all pale in comparison to one, the ability to mix and match components from a variety of different manufacturers.
> 
> ...


KPC. surely then the sage and wise users like yourself will be able to advise the lost souls that do stray from the correct Remit....
not just you.... but everyone else that knows these facts.

But i do agree that interoperability is key to ILF. And making an ILF riser that isnt interoperable seems daft to me. 
The world is performance driven. Not interoperably driven.
i think our sales of Covert Hunters has shown that people want new. Not yesterdays. And will only buy yesterdays if its cheap enough or the performance gap. (Overall performance) is small.
if a bolt down simply eats a ILF for a light lunch then why have an ILF. and if its the interoperable nature than is holding ILF back.. why have interoperable?


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Kevin it's no suprise that you would come out nice and friendly and than take a shot 

It's your way of sneak attacking so to speak 

Sorry that's how I feel 

As for the Hex 7 Ilf being this finicky not ILF friendly limb 

Utter nonsense 

I just showed that you could bolt a set on a ILf Riser that is not from Border and get awesome performance on two different length risers 

As for what about the fellow that takes a set of short Hex 7 ILf limbs and bolts them to a 13 inch riser and try's to draw them to 32 inches 

Well he's an idiot that should of spent more time researching what he was buying 

as for the Hex 7 being better off as a true bolt down not an ILf because of the slight performance gains that is up in the air 

I'm getting great performance from the WF riser and these limbs 

It also can be said that every great ILF limb if mounted on a custom bolt down riser with the perfect limb pocket angles and tillered to get into their best working configuration would also perform slightly better 

Your argument does not hold water 

Not to sound like an ass but ...... I have access to any limb and or bow I want 

I am so taken with the Hex Limb and its feel and performance that is all I am interested in shooting 

It's really that simple 

Your concern for today archers is a wonderful thing but I do believe it is a thin veil to mask your deep seeded hatred of the SIDS and Border Bows 

I actually feel bad for you ....... You don't have to live this way .... Someone can help Kevin.....reach out  

Seriously only someone with some very strange things going on would make up an alias and spend his time on forums attacking a Bowyer and his work 

As for the rest the Archery world 

They seem to like what Border is doing and those that have actually tried a CH or seem to be quite pleased ....myself included 



Anything new is going to take time to be accepted and maybe it never will in certain circles but as a hunter looking for a compact, quiet very good performing bow what Border is producing has really gotten my attention 

Re bet everyone I do not get paid to write about anything I do 

It is true that I consider many in this industry my friends but I'm just lucky to make friends that way  

For some the conventional limb design is all they need or want and that is awesome and I like many of my conventional bows ....that's why they are still on the wall 

Others like the out of the box thinking and feel and performance of the Super recurves 

Sorry Kevin companies like Border and UKka are here to stay .......at least I hope so


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## rogbo (Jan 2, 2004)

GEREP said:


> Mark my words on this one JP, it's only a matter of time before someone sees a set of Hex 6 or Hex 7 limbs in the classifieds,


Absolutely right JP. Really. In fact, lets make today that day! Go ahead and put those ILF hex7's up on the block.....PLEASE!!!



JParanee said:


> As for what about the fellow that takes a set of short Hex 7 ILf limbs and bolts them to a 13 inch riser and try's to draw them to 32 inches
> 
> Well he's an idiot that should of spent more time researching what he was buying


Hey! I resemble that remark. Except the 32 inch draw. I'm only about 26" draw and my research indicates that shorts will suit me fine. But I'll sure take those mediums that JP is gonna put in the classifieds today, right after he PM's me so I can be first in line.....right JP?


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

JParanee said:


> Kevin it's no suprise that you would come out nice and friendly and than take a shot
> 
> It's your way of sneak attacking so to speak
> 
> ...



Wow JP, I'm not sure what to say other than maybe you might want to go back ad re-read what I wrote, only this time read it without the massive chip on your shoulder. I was trying to have a friendly, meaningful conversation, if you would just allow it.

There is no "shot" in what I wrote. None.

I was only reiterating and discussing what you said in your video.

*"Border limbs are very draw specific."

"You're not getting the benefit of a hex limb, unless you're drawing it to where it needs to be."

"The biggest problem with the Cover Hunter, and adapting the Hex 7 over to the ILF world, from what I understand, is the way most ILF risers are shaped."

"Until the Sids make an ILF Hex 7 specific riser, we are going to be experimenting with different risers, trying to get close to the geometry that we can get the performance out of the limb."

"If you guys are interested in the Hex 7, and you're going to throw them on a shorter ILF riser, or even a longer one, pay attention to your draw length and talk to the guys, make sure you get what you're looking for. That way, you're going to be happy and you're going to get the full effect of what these limbs were meant to do and how they were meant to perform."*

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not the one suggesting they are finicky. I was simply asking a question based on what others have said, including you and the people who designed them.

All I was asking is that if they require a particular window to operate up to their full potential, do you think it's wise to make them available for a system that will almost certainly guarantee that they won't be. As I said before, in my opinion, ILF is a system that *requires* compromises. If I took a shot at anything, it was the *ILF system* and it's inherent inability to handle a limb design that requires more than just average. As much as I like the ILF system, it has it's drawbacks. It's designed around "average." To me, it's kind of like an auto focus camera in that it does a lot of things really, really well, but nothing perfect. 

As to hoping that Border and Uukha are going to be around for a while, I sincerely hope so too, seeing that I'm on my second set of Uukhas. If you'd like to discuss what I like *and dislike* about them, or any other brand I own or have owned, I'd be happy to do so. They all have their plusses and minuses in my opinion, and I'm not married to any one of them. 

KPC


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> No worries Jinks it sounded good


It was good...except I was one diameter size down...should've put my reader's on...they make things look bigger...which in essence?...means "normal size" these days. LOL!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Kevin 

Like I said to you when you were your alter ego Sylvan 

Don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining 

Yes Hex Limbs operate at their best when set up to fit the individual shooter and the limb pocket angles etc all come into play 

That is the same for every limb out there to a certain degree 

All things high performance are designed to work with in certain parameters 



I don't have a chip on my shoulder 

I'm a friendly guy ....ask anyone who has ever meet me  

You and I have a bit of a history that most on here do not know about 

It's time they do 

Sorry bud you started this and no matter......what I'm game buddy


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

rogbo said:


> Absolutely right JP. Really. In fact, lets make today that day! Go ahead and put those ILF hex7's up on the block.....PLEASE!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! I resemble that remark. Except the 32 inch draw. I'm only about 26" draw and my research indicates that shorts will suit me fine. But I'll sure take those mediums that JP is gonna put in the classifieds today, right after he PM's me so I can be first in line.....right JP?


Thanks RogBo 

Fact is the Hex series of limbs has me considering selling off a lot of my other limbs 

Just off'ed a pair of F7's


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

JParanee said:


> Yes Hex Limbs operate at their best when set up to fit the individual shooter and the limb pocket angles etc all come into play
> 
> That is the same for every limb out there to a certain degree
> 
> All things high performance are designed to work with in certain parameters


So all the clichés and past perceived injustices, either real or imagined, aside. 

Do you think a high performance limb like the Hex 7 lends itself to a platform that has for decades catered to a completely different limb design, or do you think it would be better suited a platform of it's own.

Not sure where the "shot" is in that, but that's all I was asking.

KPC


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## rogbo (Jan 2, 2004)

Meh. It was worth a hail mary. LOL :teeth:


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

GEREP said:


> So all the clichés and past perceived injustices, either real or imagined, aside.
> 
> Do you think a high performance limb like the Hex 7 lends itself to a platform that has for decades catered to a completely different limb design, or do you think it would be better suited a platform of it's own.
> 
> ...


So now I'm delusional 

Did you not under the name Sylvan on TT attack my Border threads and were you not thrown off because of such ? 

Come on Kevin tell the good people of AT what's up 

When we straighten out that ..... I'm up for any and all conversations 

Many on here know me 

Many on here have meet me 

My name and my word is all I have 

Your insinuating I'm delusional and that I'm trying to hype Border products is an insult 

I take it personal 

As I do that on one forum you were Kevin my friend and on the other you were some prick with an agenda using my well meaning posts to attack people 

Every time you start with your nonsense I will just go back to you have an agenda and it is clear 

To me your a fake 

But for argument sake I will answer your question 

Yes I believe that a hex limb set up on any ILF riser will still perform at a very high level and give a shooting experience that if you like what the Hex limbs feel like.....you will enjoy 

My CH was designed to shoot the Hex 7 and I am enjoying shooting my WF 19 with the Hex 7's as much 

I am getting the same feel as my CH 

Enough so that it will probable be my primary 3D bow along with my 48 pound CH 

Now if they sucked so bad why would I do that 

I am not a paid shooter 

I am a simple bowhunter from Pa .... All I have in this world is my name and my word ....... Do you really think I would tarnish either for Border Archery , Trad Tech or any other company 

I write the checks to pay for my passion and I want to spread my passion to other people tha have the same interests 

I only use what I believe in and yes kevin I will defend my friends to the bitter end 

I'm not good at the toss under the bus trick ....hey sylvan 

We get it Kevin you don't like Border Limbs


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

rogbo said:


> Meh. It was worth a hail mary. LOL :teeth:


RogBo 

Give the SIDS a shout 

Rember they have a money back guarantee .... Not many Bowyers stand by their work like that 

If you do not like them send them back minus the shipping 

You can't loose IMHO 

Good try thou


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

another great review JP, im about click away from getting some Hex limbs with that CD riser, im in awe of that riser...


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

JParanee said:


> So now I'm delusional
> 
> Did you not under the name Sylvan on TT attack my Border threads and were you not thrown off because of such ?
> 
> ...


Now you're the one being dishonest JP. We've discussed this, in minute detail, via PM, but I'll take you at your word and see if we can stop reliving the same damn stuff over and over and over again.

Did I post under a community handle on TT? Yes, as did a number of other people, some of which you call "friends." It's a shame that anyone has to do that, but in a weird twist of fate, it was sticking up for friends, and refusing to throw them under the bus that originally got those people banned from certain forums in the first place. You haven't been around long enough to realize that just shooting a certain brand of bow was enough to get you banned from certain places. Had you posted a video of a certain bow on certain websites, you would have been banned too. It just so happens that the videos you are posting happen to be about bows that are in good favor (currently) at the websites you are posting them. 

Have you and other's accused me of posting under names that I never have? Yes.

Do I respond to such accusations. Nope. 

Did I ever post anything that was untrue, or at least that I knew to be untrue. No.

Did I attack you? Absolutely not. 

Did I question certain claims that were being made by bowyers if I thought they I thought they weren't totally accurate? Yes. In part, that's what these forums are here for. You do the same. I will not apologize for that. Nor will I stop doing that. Nor should you.



JParanee said:


> Many on here know me
> 
> My name and my word is all I have
> 
> ...


Never once have I attacked you personally, or accused you of doing anything. I'm not insinuating anything. I telling you in fact, some of the things you have accused me of are real and some are imagined. That is fact. Not insinuation. I'm used to that. I've been dealing with false accusations on traditional archery forums for 15 years. It all started with my first Chek-Mate bow post on the LW. Yep, that's right, ask our friend Chad Weaver how we used to be treated over there...just for saying we liked Chek-Mate bows. 



JParanee said:


> To me your a fake


 You are entitled to that opinion. I have no control over it. 



JParanee said:


> Yes I believe that a hex limb set up on any ILF riser will still perform at a very high level and give a shooting experience that if you like what the Hex limbs feel like.....you will enjoy
> 
> My CH was designed to shoot the Hex 7 and I am enjoying shooting my WF 19 with the Hex 7's as much
> 
> ...


 Thank you for your opinion.



JParanee said:


> Now if they sucked so bad why would I do that


 Never said they sucked, never even implied it. Please show everyone where I have, and I will publicly apologize. 



JParanee said:


> I am not a paid shooter


 Never said you were, neither am I. 



JParanee said:


> I am a simple bowhunter from Pa .... All I have in this world is my name and my word ....... Do you really think I would tarnish either for Border Archery , Trad Tech or any other company
> 
> I write the checks to pay for my passion and I want to spread my passion to other people tha have the same interests
> 
> ...


Again, that's just simply untrue. Border makes great equipment. I've said it a thousand times. I don't like unsubstantiated performance claims by anyone. You don't either, as evidenced by the recent BS thread that everyone took such glee in piling on. It's the nature of this beast. It always seems to be fine when we are dishing out the questions, not so much when we or our favorite bows are the target of such questions. 

There, is there anything I missed? I think I pretty much covered everything. I won't address it again. 

Can we move beyond it now and talk archery? 

KPC


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Kevin I'm done buddy 

I have been around hunting and tarsditional bows for 40 plus years 

I've been banned on sites for speaking about Trad Tech and Border 

I still would not post with an Alis and a negative agenda 

I only started posting on Archery forums about 7 years ago but I am not new to Forums 

I've been heavily involved in The Custom Knofe forums for a very long time and if I have to say so myself I have a pretty good reputation and have grown to work with the best makers in the world 

Field tested their gear all over the world and I my honor has never been brought into question .....ever

Again I use my real name 

In all these years I have never used the ignore feature on a forum ........ You and Sylvan and any other BS name you can think of have just made it 

Good luck buddy 

I wish you well 

But rember you don't have to live this way .......help is out there ....it might even have a real curly limb  

Now back to setup 


I spent a bit today talking to my good friend John Wert ...Who by the way doesn't subscribe to the boiled nock approach  

All kidding aside we spoke of ILf setup 

John knows his stuff and I value his opinion

John said to me that you can never go by bottoming out a limb and giving one turn out as a starting point 

Unless it is something like the new Titan that has a collar the correct depth to allow the proper working space 

At a minimum you want 15 MM of space between the bottom of the bolt and he doesn't advise going past 25 MM

With the WF 19 that was about two turns off the bottom once the screw bottomed out

Starting there I also headed SIDS advice and dropped the brace from 7 1/8 to 6 6/8 to 7/8's 

Something very interesting happened 

The string dropped right into the trailing edge of the groove and the limb relaxed mid way 





Now this adjustment on the scale was about a pound lighter when measured and I have not had the time to chrono after these setting 

But I do believe even thou I lost a pound in draw weight I will not have lost speed due to the lower brace height working the limbs a bit more optimal 

The Chrono will tell me 

Thanks Sid and John for the advice 

Next bit of tweaking 

Dan DDshooter (DDD) sent me another side plate after speaking with Dwayne 

The one I had it seems was 4.27 MM thick and a tad thicker with my seal skin 

This got the arrow about dead even center shot 

Dwayne told Dan that anything past center to the right could lead to some inconsistencies 

The new one right from what Dwayne and Dan would think to be perfect is 7.79 MM 

This put my arrow tip off to the left like I normally would set up center 

Of course I added seal skin


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

The good thing is that I took the 4.27 MM one and put it on my old ladies Titan I 



Guys I'm serious if you are shooting a Titan or a WF and you want a fixed side plate get ahold of Dan 

These are setup perfect and as much as I liked furniture pads they are kind of Jenky 

This is a much nicer touch and is legal in classes that check for such things 

We tha. Went out to shoot 

She only shoots about twice a year but she got everything Rod gave me and it soaked in better with her 

She had no bad habits 

She honestly can pick up a bow and group arrows with in seconds 





The bow is opening up very nicely 





Now remember 

The bow was shooting very well before and these minor tweaks have only improved things 

I was and would of been pleased as punch before ......now I am tnrilled 

What this does show me is how some minor tweaking can really make a difference and the more high performance the bow or the Bike or car is the more performance you can ring out with some attention to detail 

It also shows me that the Hex 7's are not as fussy as I thought they were meaning it shot could before .... With the wrong center shot and not the optimal ILF settings 

This is also with out a properly bare shafted arrow 

These were borrowed back from a friend that I made them for ..... I don't shoot orange I'm yellow and black or white  

I have 2 dozen shafts coming from John in the am and I will than properly start with a full length shaft and cut to tune to perfection 

God is in the details  

I was impressed before and this rig is only getting more impressive 

The WF 19 looks like it makes a hell of a home for Hex 7's which means a Titan should work very nicely also 

Old lady can group arrows 



Proper arrow tuning next 

Might make a video if time allows


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> another great review JP, im about click away from getting some Hex limbs with that CD riser, im in awe of that riser...


Thanks Ghosty 

Kind words are appreciated


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Now were talking. Nice job. I soon should have worked out the Titan kit with John and have your wife's bow nice a pretty with a shelf base plate along with the side plate. Do they carry pink camouflage velcro.
Thanks Joe.
Dan


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Dan I'm a fan 

Glad I could hook John and you up on this 

A simple elegant solution to the fixed side plate quandary and the radiused shelf dilemma 

I need 4 more sets for my Titans and for my Black Magic  

Let me know where and what to send 

As for John I did give him the extra I had ...... He most of lost it doing bullwhip tricks


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Lol. Joe. I am pretty sure John still has it. 
Dan


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Borderbows said:


> ...and if its the interoperable nature than is holding ILF back.. why have interoperable?


Sid, are you telling us that you "purposely" don't design your limbs to perform exactly like all the rest.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Someone 

Brought up a very interesting point on TT 


I've been thinking the same thing 

We always speak of adjusting ILF limbs to get the limb in the best working configuration for are setup 

We never speak of the best settings for the actual rocker or connection system 

Before I thought it all tied together which I stil believe it does but if we are running say 10 mm or 30 what are we doing to the rocker ? 

Interesting stuff and good conversation


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

JParanee said:


> Someone
> 
> Brought up a very interesting point on TT
> 
> ...


It's really got more to do with the dovetail. That is the centering and load bearing if to work as intended. It has a given working radius, which normally is within what allows the limb to snap on or off. Otherwise, it's working in a bind.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Not sure what you mean by "doing *to* the rocker" but the rocker allows you to basically change the limb pad angle. 

But instead of changing the angle of the pad itself, you are changing the way the limb sits in relation to the pad.

KPC


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

JParanee said:


> Someone
> 
> Brought up a very interesting point on TT
> 
> ...



the flange on the dovetail is angled to try and avoid interference when you run max in to max out.
since different manufacturers have different flange angles, and different neck lengths. on both the dovetail AND the slot in the riser. there can be max in to max out differnces.

and to be honest, the design is to take the inward loadings on the dovetail as a sheer stress, yet there are risers out there that take the loadings on the limb bolts. 
Since the loadings on the bolts are at a distance from the threads in the riser that hold the bolt means that there is a possibility to bend the bolts.
especially if wound fully out.


What is never discussed is the relationship of vertical stability, balance, in terms of both Tiller and actual mass, and brace height needs of the different bolt positions.

BTW. as a bowyer you talk about tiller being an all encompassing term, covering alignment, tracking, balance, and limb width, and the bend of the limb.
what Target archery circles class as Tiller is simply one aspect of the bows tiller, which is what everyone commonly calls "tiller". this is just the relationship between the top and bottom limb, if they were equally balanced then you should have "Zero tiller" if they were bottom heavy then you will get "normal tiller". its just balance.
if the tiller was out, as a bowyer, I would assume that the limbs are not bending correctly, or have poor alignment, or some other deflect in the tillering process...
its just a modern term "tiller"

sorry for the offshoot there :-D


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Sanford said:


> It's really got more to do with the dovetail. That is the centering and load bearing if to work as intended. It has a given working radius, which normally is within what allows the limb to snap on or off. Otherwise, it's working in a bind.


there is a flat on the riser and a flat on the neck of the dovetail. only mid position should put these two flats parallel to each other.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Borderbows said:


> there is a flat on the riser and a flat on the neck of the dovetail. only mid position should put these two flats parallel to each other.


Sure, I was talking more to what you said here:


> the flange on the dovetail is angled to try and avoid interference when you run max in to max out.
> since different manufacturers have different flange angles, and different neck lengths. on both the dovetail AND the slot in the riser. there can be max in to max out differnces.


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## marc weier (May 26, 2009)

Joe, am I missing something? I still don't see a clicker on that bow!!!!!


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Thanks Sid and Sanford


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

As long as the dovetail is free inside the slot, it's doing it's job and the rocker or dovetail itself doesn't know the difference.









If the limb bolt is backed out too far, or tightened in to far, putting the dovetail on too much of an angle, the edges of the dovetail can bind on the top and bottom of dovetail slot. Then it will know the difference. 

KPC


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

marc weier said:


> Joe, am I missing something? I still don't see a clicker on that bow!!!!!


Marc 

I am waiting for you and Yohon to set it up  

I just spoke to Yohon about Denton pushing him to come 

You are in right ?


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

GEREP said:


> As long as the dovetail is free inside the slot, it's doing it's job and the rocker or dovetail itself doesn't know the difference.
> 
> View attachment 2234604
> 
> ...


You argue everything eh?

During the normal use of the limbs. You shouldnt actually ever need the flange. Its only there for the event of a dry fire. String failure.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Borderbows said:


> You argue everything eh?
> 
> *During the normal use of the limbs. You shouldnt actually ever need the flange.* Its only there for the event of a dry fire. String failure.


Not arguing anything Sid, I'm agreeing. I've always said the same thing. I was simply trying to illustrate to other readers (some people like to see what others are talking about) where and how the dovetail can bind in the slot if the limb bolt is either tightened too far or backed out too far.

Please stop looking for fights where none exist.

Thank you,

KPC


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

JParanee said:


> Stub
> 
> My first CH that was Sid Sr's bow had that done to it and I have been doing it on my Hex Limbs since
> 
> ...


Just noticed this question...
the reason is that the string is quiet when in the radii of the limb forces the string to wrap round it. Just like a compound string wrap is quiet.

The noise comes from when the string follow through meeting the same angle as the limb.... 2 flats create a slap. And all recurves have this to some drgree or another
So as a matter of course it seems a no brainer. A 1/2" square of vecro at the string/limb contact location weighs nothing and can only help .


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Borderbows said:


> You argue everything eh?
> 
> During the normal use of the limbs. You shouldnt actually ever need the flange. Its only there for the event of a dry fire. String failure.


This is right the shoulder is what hold the limb in position. The dovetail will not allow the limb to pop out of the slot. We should pay more attention to the height and/or depth in which the bushing seat in the channel. I have had to change a few that didn't fit. Border's Bushing is the one I buy. Presses tight in the limb and fits tight in the channel. Because it presses in I can set the height to match the limb setting I want. 
Dan


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> another great review JP, im about click away from getting some Hex limbs with that CD riser, im in awe of that riser...


click....


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

BarneySlayer said:


> click....


talked myself out of it and bought my wife a new kayak so she can go out and fish with me


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> talked myself out of it and bought my wife a new kayak so she can go out and fish with me


Good decision 

I love fishing


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

JParanee said:


> Good decision
> 
> I love fishing


me too  i love fishing from a kayak as well, nothing is more rewarding and awesome being on a primitive tool strolling down a river to catch something, sort of like traditional archery, its simple and peaceful


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## marc weier (May 26, 2009)

IDK yet, will depend on my daughters schedule.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> talked myself out of it and bought my wife a new kayak so she can go out and fish with me


Good idea.

You can click later


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