# Opinions wanted: Indoor Barebow Shafts?



## Rael84 (Feb 22, 2016)

What about long and skinny? I've shot good to great scores (268-278/300 NFAA face) with long fat and long skinny arrows; the common denominator was longer arrows.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

That will work too....... didn't mean to reduce the options. 

Now the idea of "long" was to reduce the perceived "point on" distance and add arrow weight?

I saw arrows at the Lancaster Classic that were cut so short they used the back of the point as a sort of draw check as well as full length arrows with 6-8" of arrow out the back of their risers at full draw.......


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

How about somewhere in between? I've been very impressed with CX's Maxima pro recurve RZ shafts. Act like skinnies but with a little more line cutting capability.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

Limbwalker, do you cut them or shoot them full length?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

For indoor I'll take a long arrow with fairly high FOC regardless of diameter.
Point and nock shape makes a huge difference in terms of kick outs in my experience, more than diameter.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

I'm normally using my 3DHV shafts which I use for everything Field, 3D and Indoors (id of .204) so mid diameter light arrow just under 300g. Our goals are slightly different this side of the pond as we shoot both 300 and Flint rounds (out to 30y) so a full length fat arrows isn't a first choice as you cannot change setup for each round. The 3DHV's are so well tuned they group really well for me and have 100% confidence in my setup, the weak link is always down to me pulling the string lol

Picture from Baltic champs last week, guys were proud of me, I'm using lighter limbs and skinny VAPs because of elbow injury, they work pretty good but I prefer my normal setup.


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## liquidator4711 (Aug 4, 2016)

Its a bit funny, I planned to use the 3DHV for 3D this year (seems like a nice arrow!), but have been really happy with the CX's Maxima pro recurve RZ indoors, so I plan to try it for outdoors too - they actually are as light as the 3DHV (actually even slightly lighter for my spine IIRC) so should work ok in the woods where wind is less of a concern. Just thought it nice to be able to use the same indoor shaft with just a little less vanes on it for outdoors - especially as it seems to be really consistent in one batch.


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## liquidator4711 (Aug 4, 2016)

Oh, and to put more flavor for the original question - I tried the maxima pro rz both full length with 120 grain points, but ended up cuttin them down and putting in a cX #4 insert + 145 grain field points (total 156 up front) - I liked them a bit better with the latter setup.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

JimDE said:


> Limbwalker, do you cut them or shoot them full length?


Mine are full length but then I have a freakish draw too.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

To those using the Maxima Pro recurve RZ’s I have a user question. I know my Victory Vap elite V1’s spine chart is on the heavy side with a parallel single spine shaft. In my example a 550 or 600 by the chart should of worked but I ended up with a 700 and 130gr of point weight to get BS to impact dead on my fletched shafts with straight shaft flight and entry. The CX chart for the Max Pro recurve RZ shows 650 cut to length or 580 full length. Is their spine chart also set to the heavy side? At $16 a shaft it would be nice to buy right the first time and with a tri spine I’m sure it is even trickier. 

If I went that route I would use 3”-3.5” feathers (I have those new 2” W&W wings on my VAP’s) beiter #1 pin nocks, shaft at full length, with most likely inserts to make tuning easier by swapping screw in points to get BS tune dead on. My hunch would be if the chart is heavy go with the 650’s if not the 580’s for my 29.75” draw at 33lbs. What would you pick?


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

For me I have shot nothing nicer than the Carbon Express Tank 23’s. I found I was scoring better with these than the RZ’s earlier and even my X-Busters. I think part of that is that they are getting out of the bow a little faster so a weak shot is not so detrimental. Mine are cut to 32” with 250gr propoints, 4.5” Ozark target max feathers and Beiter hunter nocks. Have recently tied a couple of PB’s with this setup.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

JimDE, I am shooting 500 spine from my barebow, and 420's from my recurve. Specs from my barebow are 43# at 31.5" with a full length arrow and IIRC a 120-grain point and pin nocks. I'm using Elivane IS3's.

Recurve I'm shooting 46# at 32.25" draw, also with 120 grain points.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

limbwalker, it was a tough pill for me to swallow when I decided to return to archery and my GM with 44lb at 30.250" near beat up my shoulder. Age, stroke's, heart attacks, and lack of exercise other than shooting sporting clays seems to of taken its toll on my ability to hold higher poundage bows. It is what it is and 33lb is more than fine for indoors....... at least I am shooting a bow again and it feels great!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That's awesome Jim. 33lb is indeed more than enough for indoors, and can compete well even outdoors at 50 and 60 meters.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

at 33 pounds...depending on point weight and there aren't many options for the maxima recurve... don't get the one piece tophat points they are too small diameter...they are marketed specifically for this shaft but they simply wooble too much inside the shaft. More than likely you would be in the 580 maxima recurve shaft the 650 would probably be too weak if you left them long. The downside to this shaft for indoors, is for most people it is too light grains per inch to help with closing their gap.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

For indoors I shoot 2315 full length (33.5 inch) arrows with 5 inch feathers and 200 gr points, total weight 663 gr. None of this has anything to do with the diameter or length of the arrow. It all about mass because I am constrained by NFAA Trad rules that requires my forefinger to touch the arrow. Those 2315 arrows were the heaviest arrows I could find at the time I bought them. I shoot with 40# OTF with my 29-3/4 inch draw. This is all about getting the arrow tip on paper, and that required heavier arrows Right now I hit about 1.5 inches above the aiming point. 

Yeah, I could go with lighter limbs, but I want to keep my strength for field shooting, where I shoot with 45# OTF.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

Stick monkey I am thinking going with the #4 insert and 9/16” field points to get my weight ... I could even use Broadhead adapters and ferruletite heavy cedar arrow points if I need a lot of weight. I have done that before and gotten some monster weights for trad curves ... like a wrecking ball hitting a 3D target 

Hopefully I can get it with more standard field point weights in 9/16”


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

Well I ordered a few uncut 580’s to try .... ordered both the 100-120 CX glue in points and the #4 inserts to try both methods if needed for BS tune. Ordered the pin nock adapters, some more Beiter pin nocks, and a pack of Ozark 3.5” feathers in their Max configuration for a additional anchor/ draw check reference. I’ll fletch 2 shafts and keep one shaft bare for testing. If the spine is right and they fly good I will order more as I have the components I will need for a full dozen. Guess I will have a better comprehension of a tri-spine shafts flight after this weekend.


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## hammer08 (Aug 28, 2012)

There are many combinations that will work well. There's really no rule to follow. So shoot what works for you, fat or skinny. 

However, for me I've found I shoot best with a full length shaft at or near 23 diameter. I like Carbon Express Tanks, old fat CXL 150's, and CXL 250's. All full length with 160-200 grains up front. My setups seem to be very forgiving for me and give me 9's when I don't deserve them. The CXL 150's with 160 grains are my favorite for a WABB setup as they tune very well and give me a forgiving speed. For NFAA I like the Tanks with 200 grains up front because they give me a good bit more weight to get point on.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Gotta agree that CX 23's with heavy points can offer great results. My personal best indoor scores with recurve came with CXL 150's, and my best barebow indoor scores came with X-busters.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

hammer08 said:


> There are many combinations that will work well. There's really no rule to follow. So shoot what works for you, fat or skinny.
> 
> However, for me I've found I shoot best with a full length shaft at or near 23 diameter. I like Carbon Express Tanks, old fat CXL 150's, and CXL 250's. All full length with 160-200 grains up front. My setups seem to be very forgiving for me and give me 9's when I don't deserve them. The CXL 150's with 160 grains are my favorite for a WABB setup as they tune very well and give me a forgiving speed. For NFAA I like the Tanks with 200 grains up front because they give me a good bit more weight to get point on.


What draw weight are you shooting indoors?


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## hammer08 (Aug 28, 2012)

35-39#


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

rsarns said:


> What draw weight are you shooting indoors?


Usually 44-45# I was using full length 450 X-busters with something like 180 or 200 grain points. Good for a 280 average over 2 days at NFAA state a few years ago. Shot as high as 286 with them in Victoria. Fantastic arrows.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

Just ordered some steel 19/64" field points (recommended size for the #4 CX insert for the Maxima Pro Recurve RZ's) from Amazon in 85,100,125, and 145gr and a couple _sample packs_ from GrizzlyStix in tapered points from 11/32" front to 9/32" rear (a 64th of a inch too narrow in diameter at the insert but should punch a large enough hole with the front 11/32 dia to be a non-issue) in 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, and 300gr One of them should surely work hopefully to BS tune these full length 580's and get _point on_ closer to the dot at 18m with a high anchor. With my current 700 VAP's cut to length and the Gabriel rest I lowered my nocking point and my crawl for 20 yard dropped down to about a inch. So far I am liking that Gabriel BiDrop rest hope it holds these new arrows and heavier points.. I feel it will as it is pretty resistant to these arrows and the 140gr tips it began with and never came close to dropping when the bow was bounced vertically.


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## liquidator4711 (Aug 4, 2016)

I think you will be fine up to 200gr with the Gabriel BiDrop (which I also shoot) - but I did actually try it for fun with 300gr yesterday and unless being super careful in bringing up the bow, the arrow weight would make the rest fold - essentially making it useless. 200gr seemed to work fine though...


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info..... 300gr is a bunch of weight out front and hopefully I can get away with much less and achieve my needs and wants. If not I can always go back to the ZT.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

Well, I have shot these Maxima Pro Recurves for 2 days in full length 580's ... as expected they BS tune same impact point but nock right with the 120 adj points. I got two out of the 3 to fly correctly (one fletched shaft one bare shaft ...... I am sure one of my 2 fletched shafts are either incorrectly marked or defective as the one shaft throws 95% of the time to the left of aim...... not a good impression for a first time buyer of CX arrows). I pulled the CX adj point out of the shafts and installed inserts. Got these to fly same point and nock straight with 145gr field points. So I can do all inserts and 19/64" 145gr points or drop down to 650's and try the CX adj points in them. Decisions?!?! One thing I did notice is these shafts are _not as forgiving_ for me as my VAPs and after a lifetime of shooting cut to length arrows having a full length shaft seems to have a odd effect on arrow oscillations or its the tri-spine I am noticing. Either way it is distracting as well as concerning when shooting for me. I do think they do look good but that is something I could really care less about ... it is what they do for my score that will make the only difference for me. If the arrow forgives a occasional archers hiccup that is what makes it beautiful 

Between my cut to length 700 VAPs with 130gr points and these full length 580's with a 10gr insert and 145gr tip I only reduced my 18m crawl one large mark on my Yost tab with the Gabriel rest....... I don't think that is a significant reduction enough to go with the RZ's at this time with all the other concerns I have with them from my very limited use of them. I prefer "forgiving" over all other aspects of a archery system and when a 2" Jet6 wing fletch on a sewing needle is more forgiving than 3.5" Ozark max feathers on a tri-spine 19/64" shaft then its time to stop and re-evaluate. Who know, after a lifetime of shooting Easton x7's they may still be my answer for a indoor barebow shaft to be forgiving, reduce crawl, and have a predictable arrow to arrow quality.


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## JimDE (Aug 3, 2008)

As a follow up to this thread.... where did I end up?  Both!!! I am shooting x7 2114's cut to 31.25" with 100gr Top Hat screw in pin points and 4.5 feathers but also got a set of CX Maxima Pro Recurve RZ in 580 full length with 145gr screw in 19/16" points with 3.5" feathers. I did not want to cast judgement on the one bad arrow out of the 3 test arrows I bought plus all the personal recommendations this arrow received in this thread and others and I am glad I didn't. They shoot good but being lighter than my x7's my crawl is greater but that isn't a big deal. I find I am shooting both arrow nearly the same group size but penetration is better with the CX over the x7's. X7's are a shaft I am very accustomed to as they have been around my archery for very long time and I shot them way back when they were silver in color: old dog syndrome I guess  The CX arrows I still am catching that difference in arrow flight that I mentioned in a previous post but the results at the target are good. I don't know if its the tri-spine or the fact they are full length and when shot the point is not close to the plunger when first loaded causing it to bend differently but I am getting used to it.

My VAP V1's in 700 are my outdoor arrows but are not seeing much use as I am pretty much focused on 18m and not doing anything else. 

Thanks to all for their contribution to this thread and helping a "old coot" returning to archery through today's maze of available arrows and materials to use. I am shooting every other day with a Spigarelli BB riser with long 32lb Hoyt Carbon Ace limbs and so far only a occasional slight tinge of pain in the bow shoulder due to mass weight of the bow not drawing weight. I am happy with that and being careful not to push it too much right now. 33lbs OTF is plenty for 18m (thought about getting a 27" G1 and putting my old Samick 45lb TradTech RC Extreme limbs on it and getting about 35lbs with a 72" bow but that can wait for now) and I can see the arrow and the bullseye clearly so I am well on my way to returning to a sport I once lived and breathed even with my health and physical limitations. 

Thanks again ... and I hope to see you all on the line at the 2019 Lancaster Archery Classic; God willing


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