# Why fat shaft arrows?



## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

I go to 3D shoots and all I see are fat shafts what do you honestly think the advantage is?


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## HoytPA (Feb 5, 2010)

line cutting


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## 3D_shooter84 (Feb 17, 2009)

HoytPA said:


> line cutting


+1, its the difference between an 8 and a 10


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

Or 10 and a 12


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

more space 2 robinhood


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## jmvaughn06 (Jan 10, 2009)

asa1485 said:


> Or 10 and a 12


In my case an 8 and 5:smile:


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## 3D_shooter84 (Feb 17, 2009)

asa1485 said:


> Or 10 and a 12


True, but I ain't good enough for twelves! :wink:


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## Johnny Wade (Feb 28, 2011)

Fat shafts cut lines!


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

fat shafts catch more wind, has more drag and not as flat as smaller diameter arrows. fat arrows are great indoors. no wind, no yardage judging. Levi must know something...he's winning a lot of dang $ using small diameter arrows for 3D.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

J Whittington said:


> fat shafts catch more wind, has more drag and not as flat as smaller diameter arrows. fat arrows are great indoors. no wind, no yardage judging. Levi must know something...he's winning a lot of dang $ using small diameter arrows for 3D.


That kid is a "machine" 
he could win shooting a stick and string behind his back with his eyes closed.


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## Bowtech n ROSS (Aug 30, 2007)

Fat shafts may cut lines but the skinny arrow might have been on the inside of the line to begin with.


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## jmvaughn06 (Jan 10, 2009)

J Whittington said:


> fat shafts catch more wind, has more drag and not as flat as smaller diameter arrows. fat arrows are great indoors. no wind, no yardage judging. Levi must know something...he's winning a lot of dang $ using small diameter arrows for 3D.


I think he went to small diameter arrows to give everyone else a chance:wink:


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

jmvaughn06 said:


> In my case an 8 and 5:smile:





3D_shooter84 said:


> True, but I ain't good enough for twelves! :wink:


LOL...............Confidence guys, confidence


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

I shot my x10s because I go off of the theory that if you can put the arrow there why do you need that fat shaft. I like shooting tight groups at 60 yds rather than battling the fat stiff shaft just to keep them in the 4 ring on a spot target


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## kcbuckeye22 (Nov 19, 2010)

A guy I was grouped with at a shoot had some really thick arrows and I was shooting easton axis. On 30 targets I think he scored 22 points where I wouldnt have. It made a big difference on the close targets with the 12 ringer the size of a dime, arrow was about that big. 22 extra points makes a 290 into a 312 which can win at some local shoots.


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## jmvaughn06 (Jan 10, 2009)

I shot with a guy yesterday that had some of the Easton Full Bore arrows which are about the max in shaft diameter, but we had to shoot some of the critter 3D's, beaver, etc., and if you put that arrow between the lines of the 10 and 12 ring most of the time it will cut the line on the 12, so I think if you can get them to shoot well out of your setup then why not use them. People complain about wind drag, but when your only shooting 50yrds and a lot of your shots are in the woods where the wind is restricted then why not have the advantage. Just my thoughts.


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## bownero (Mar 12, 2011)

for 3-D shooting, I prefer using my hunting arrows. Easton Axis 400's. I would sooner use these arrows for hunting practice. I don't worry about the score as much as the other guys. The Fat Shafts definently give you the advantage for line cutting, but they're also lighter to and require re-sighting the pins.


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## bigchop (Nov 25, 2009)

line cutting,i will take all the extra help i can get


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

XForce Girl said:


> That kid is a "machine"
> he could win shooting a stick and string behind his back with his eyes closed.


Yes, but he can and will shoot what he feels is best and will give him the greatest chance to win. Don't you think?


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

I shot at the IX center yesterday with Victory HV1 and did not have one shot that would have helped with a larger arrow.


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## Hittingguru (Oct 1, 2004)

I shot the IX Indoor worlds on saturday- I think a full bore or Xcutter may have gotten me 2 more 11's and 1 ten, but overall, I'll stick to my Velocity Pro shafts. they are flying like darts.


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## 148p&y (Aug 8, 2005)

A fat shaft made me a extra $100 at my last shoot. A fatter shaft may of made me a extra $750.


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## MarineSTC (Dec 5, 2008)

bigchop said:


> line cutting,i will take all the extra help i can get


Same reason here


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## FoggDogg (Jul 9, 2002)

The last year I shot hunter class I switched from GoldTip 5575's to Arrow Dynamics. You remember the shafts that were skinny on the nock end, and about a 25 or 26 diameter on the point end? The rest of the season I averaged 7 more points per shoot.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

If they group at 50 yards, I mean all the arrows touching each other at 50 yards then it doesn't matter if they are fat or skinny! It has to do with confidence you have in your arrows! I have full bores and they don't want to group like I won't them to so I changed to ACC and these arrows will flat out group. If I pull a bad shot I want confidence in my arrows that they still will score with a bad shot!


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## dgmeadows (Jun 15, 2005)

super* said:


> I shot my x10s because I go off of the theory that if you can put the arrow there why do you need that fat shaft. I like shooting tight groups at 60 yds rather than battling the fat stiff shaft just to keep them in the 4 ring on a spot target


I agree that many people shoot overspined fat shafts simply for the line cutting benefit, but are proably hurting their accuracy. However, all Fat shafts are not ultra stiff. I shoot Fatboy 500 spine with 100 grain points out of a 53# Martin ShadowCat at 27.5", and easily get an ASA legal 283 fps without being overspined. There are larger diameter shafts out there, but all I have seen are stiffer (i.e. .350 or .300), so I chose the Fatboy 500s for optimal spine and the extra line cutting edge. Like others have posted, many times I could've won or placed much higher but for 4 or 6 points, and had several shots 1/8" off the 12 with thinner shafts. The Fatboys score a 12 where my old skinny shafts would be a 10 or even 8. Yes, I would love to be able to hit the center of the 12 with a skinny shaft every time, but I am realistic enough to know I would be giving up points.


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## 1tiger (Jan 24, 2005)

it is so funny to here people say that if they where shooting a fat shaft they would have cut more lines. that would only be true for the known distance shots. when you have to judge yardage the skinny shaft are much better because they cut the wind better and will tighten your pin gaps. so when you shoot that fat shaft low because it loose's it speed faster you truely will only be lower.trust me i have tried them all. am have shot my best scroes with 3-28 acc's. when i guess off on the yardage i am much closer with the thinner shaft.now if your missing left to right with no wind maybe the fat shafts would help you.


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## dgmeadows (Jun 15, 2005)

1tiger said:


> it is so funny to here people say that if they where shooting a fat shaft they would have cut more lines. that would only be true for the known distance shots. when you have to judge yardage the skinny shaft are much better because they cut the wind better and will tighten your pin gaps. so when you shoot that fat shaft low because it loose's it speed faster you truely will only be lower.trust me i have tried them all. am have shot my best scroes with 3-28 acc's. when i guess off on the yardage i am much closer with the thinner shaft.now if your missing left to right with no wind maybe the fat shafts would help you.


The point is that a shot that missed the 12 line by 1/16" - 1/8" w 3-28s would be touching with a fat shaft. Yes, that is assuming the fat shaft would've hit the same spot, but we are assuming the shooter has their sights tuned to the arrows they are shooting. If the shooter guessed the yardage correctly with both set ups, they would theoretically be in the same spot, and a hair off the 12 high, low, left or right. While the laws of physics do dictate that the fatter shaft will have more drag and will lose speed more quickly than a thinner shaft, all other things being equal, every comparison I have seen shows very minor differences at typical 3D distances. The thinner shafts drop less theory may have more merit for long distance applications like field archery & maybe even for the pros who shoot a large # of their shots at ~50 yards, but for the average Joe getting started in 3D (which I am well past), I would go with a properly spined larger diameter shaft for line cutting, and work on yardage estimation to take care of concerns over low shots. 

In other words, the thinner arrow drops less theory may help you hold on to the bottom of the line once in a while when you have guessed wrong on a longer target compared to a fat shaft, but the fatter diameter shaft can help you catch the other 355 degrees of the 12 ring when you have guessed the yardage right, but not hit the center of the 12. 

Still, I stress that a properly spined arrow is more important than getting the largest diameter. That is why I don't shoot the ultra-fat shafts - they don't have proper spine available for my set-up, and I don't want to shoot more draw weight just to use the bigger shafts.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

dgmeadows said:


> The point is that a shot that missed the 12 line by 1/16" - 1/8" w 3-28s would be touching with a fat shaft. Yes, that is assuming the fat shaft would've hit the same spot, but we are assuming the shooter has their sights tuned to the arrows they are shooting. If the shooter guessed the yardage correctly with both set ups, they would theoretically be in the same spot, and a hair off the 12 high, low, left or right. While the laws of physics do dictate that the fatter shaft will have more drag and will lose speed more quickly than a thinner shaft, all other things being equal, every comparison I have seen shows very minor differences at typical 3D distances. The thinner shafts drop less theory may have more merit for long distance applications like field archery & maybe even for the pros who shoot a large # of their shots at ~50 yards, but for the average Joe getting started in 3D (which I am well past), I would go with a properly spined larger diameter shaft for line cutting, and work on yardage estimation to take care of concerns over low shots.
> 
> In other words, the thinner arrow drops less theory may help you hold on to the bottom of the line once in a while when you have guessed wrong on a longer target compared to a fat shaft, but the fatter diameter shaft can help you catch the other 355 degrees of the 12 ring when you have guessed the yardage right, but not hit the center of the 12.
> 
> Still, I stress that a properly spined arrow is more important than getting the largest diameter. That is why I don't shoot the ultra-fat shafts - they don't have proper spine available for my set-up, and I don't want to shoot more draw weight just to use the bigger shafts.


Very good post. 

The way I see it ...... if there was NO benefit to shooting fat shafts then the manufacturers wouldn't make them. Obviously there is a benefit because sales are up.


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## 1tiger (Jan 24, 2005)

dgmeadows said:


> The point is that a shot that missed the 12 line by 1/16" - 1/8" w 3-28s would be touching with a fat shaft. Yes, that is assuming the fat shaft would've hit the same spot, but we are assuming the shooter has their sights tuned to the arrows they are shooting. If the shooter guessed the yardage correctly with both set ups, they would theoretically be in the same spot, and a hair off the 12 high, low, left or right. While the laws of physics do dictate that the fatter shaft will have more drag and will lose speed more quickly than a thinner shaft, all other things being equal, every comparison I have seen shows very minor differences at typical 3D distances. The thinner shafts drop less theory may have more merit for long distance applications like field archery & maybe even for the pros who shoot a large # of their shots at ~50 yards, but for the average Joe getting started in 3D (which I am well past), I would go with a properly spined larger diameter shaft for line cutting, and work on yardage estimation to take care of concerns over low shots.
> 
> In other words, the thinner arrow drops less theory may help you hold on to the bottom of the line once in a while when you have guessed wrong on a longer target compared to a fat shaft, but the fatter diameter shaft can help you catch the other 355 degrees of the 12 ring when you have guessed the yardage right, but not hit the center of the 12.
> 
> Still, I stress that a properly spined arrow is more important than getting the largest diameter. That is why I don't shoot the ultra-fat shafts - they don't have proper spine available for my set-up, and I don't want to shoot more draw weight just to use the bigger shafts.




the difference is between 3.5 and 4 inches at 50 yards in the arrows i tested.3-28 acc's verses both 500 fatboys and clx-150. the x-cutters where even lower. the test i did had all arrows weight the same the same foc and fletch to make the tests fair. i i shot several groups and measusre the average distance in drop using the 20 yard pin setting and shooting all arrows at 50 yards. i did have to re-adjust to rest slightly before shooting the thinner shafts so the 20 yard pin setting was right on before they where shot at 50 yards. there was no question in the end that my pin gaps would be tighter but i shoot open class and had to get a shorter sight tape to adjust for the lesser drop. by the way after switching 3 years ago i shot my best ever at the asa pro-am in metropolis ill that year i got screwed by the rain on day 2 but was tied for first place in open-c class shooting 210 or 10up in the unknown yardage portion. you really need to test for yourself.


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## dgmeadows (Jun 15, 2005)

1tiger said:


> the difference is between 3.5 and 4 inches at 50 yards in the arrows i tested.3-28 acc's verses both 500 fatboys and clx-150. the x-cutters where even lower. the test i did had all arrows weight the same the same foc and fletch to make the tests fair. i i shot several groups and measusre the average distance in drop using the 20 yard pin setting and shooting all arrows at 50 yards. i did have to re-adjust to rest slightly before shooting the thinner shafts so the 20 yard pin setting was right on before they where shot at 50 yards. there was no question in the end that my pin gaps would be tighter but i shoot open class and had to get a shorter sight tape to adjust for the lesser drop. by the way after switching 3 years ago i shot my best ever at the asa pro-am in metropolis ill that year i got screwed by the rain on day 2 but was tied for first place in open-c class shooting 210 or 10up in the unknown yardage portion. you really need to test for yourself.


Interesting. It has been a while since I did any such head to head testing, but I did not see anything that significant when I compared Redlines to Fatboys. I don't recall the exact specs I put together, but I was focused on using same weight for same initial speed, and reasonably similar spine, and the impact difference was less than an inch at 40 yards. I tried to run a comparison this evening between Fatboy 500 and ACC 3-28s using On Target Software, and only came up with less than 1/2" drop difference. It looks like it would be very hard to do a true "all other factors equal" test between Fatboy 500s and ACC 3-28s, because the ACCs weigh a full grain per inch more. For a 28" ACC shaft, you'd have to shoot the Fatboy ~ 4 inches longer than the ACC, which would certainly affect dynamic spine, and add that much more surface area. To get the weight/length and FOC all similar to yield same fps, I had to assume an 80 grain point on the ACC, and 100 on the Fatboy. The POI difference per On Target is still less than 1/2" at 50 yards.

I am not sure what variable you had in your situation to yield your results. Perhaps there was a decent wind that day ? High humidity ? Still 3.5" difference under uniform conditions I cannot duplicate using On Target. I have always found On Target to be pretty accurate.

My point is still that the larger shaft effectively increases the size of the 12 ring, because you can hit that 1/16 - 1/8" further off center and still catch the line, in any direction, not just low.

Good shooting...


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