# Theory on why archery was better 20 years ago



## big cypress (Jul 31, 2006)

uuhhh! this should get interesting . i , for one , would quit before i'd shoot a release . i am almost certainly the worst ''archer'' on here and apparently also the dumbest as i haven't a clue how one would cheat at archery .


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

big cypress said:


> uuhhh! this should get interesting . i , for one , would quit before i'd shoot a release . i am almost certainly the worst ''archer'' on here and apparently also the dumbest as i haven't a clue how one would cheat at archery .


With a pencil, shoot with cheating buddies, use marked binoculars, sandbag, move a competitors peep, cut someones bowstring, squirt teflon lube on a competitors cable slide,all things I have seen in 40 years in archery


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

It's easy I didn't have target panic 30 years ago


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## hooiserarcher (Feb 20, 2011)

Bows are extremely easier to shoot then they whee 30 years ago. Its that simple.


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

I think it has more to do with the character of the people that make up a generation. Soap box time:

30 years ago- Ronald Reagan was president, the Pledge of Allegiance was in school, young people said "yes sir" and held the door open for women and gave their seat up for the elderly.

Today- Individualism is endorsed, the Pledge to our Nation is under attack, "why?" is said instead and chivalry and honoring our elders is an after thought. 

Honesty, integrity and faith have been overtaken by individualism, socialism and a instant gratification. It is the same in our sport as well. 

Okay, I've stepped down and feel better-


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I'm not sure where in the flip you get the idea that shooting a release is easy. shot fingers for 48 years and now a hook, and I'm just learning what it takes to shoot a hook two years in. It takes work to be very good at either. so don't be blaming the woes of the archery world on a release. that's just total BS. It's cheaters and people who dont want to put in the time to get good no matter what they shoot. The instant gratification crowd thinks a lot of bling and a fancy outfit is the ticket and then they find out you can't buy a score at the local archery shop, thus the whining and gnashing of teeth.. No awards for bling and the fastest bow that I've ever seen. It's easy to talk the talk, but walking the walk is a totally different ball game.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

biblethumpncop said:


> I think it has more to do with the character of the people that make up a generation. Soap box time:
> 
> 30 years ago- Ronald Reagan was president, the Pledge of Allegiance was in school, young people said "yes sir" and held the door open for women and gave their seat up for the elderly.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I feel better after reading that.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Unclegus said:


> I'm not sure where in the flip you get the idea that shooting a release is easy. shot fingers for 48 years and now a hook, and I'm just learning what it takes to shoot a hook two years in. It takes work to be very good at either. so don't be blaming the woes of the archery world on a release. that's just total BS. It's cheaters and people who dont want to put in the time to get good no matter what they shoot. The instant gratification crowd thinks a lot of bling and a fancy outfit is the ticket and then they find out you can't buy a score at the local archery shop, thus the whining and gnashing of teeth.. No awards for bling and the fastest bow that I've ever seen. It's easy to talk the talk, but walking the walk is a totally different ball game.


Yep Gus you are correct. There are a lot of guys that put in the time to get good weather fingers or release. However some just want to buy a score for various reasons. I haven't competed for quite a few years due to health but maybe they are giving out better plastic deer trophies than they used to and folks will do anything just to have one.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Old Sarge said:


> Yep Gus you are correct. There are a lot of guys that put in the time to get good weather fingers or release. However some just want to buy a score for various reasons. I haven't competed for quite a few years due to health but maybe they are giving out better plastic deer trophies than they used to and folks will do anything just to have one.


There was a time when I was a kid that winning a trophy was EVERYTHING. and I worked my butt off to get good, and I'm still working hard at it fifty years later, but it's for my own personal satisfaction. not a trophy. When I'm in the yard just about every morning at six shooting, the neighbors probably think I'm crazy. There could be something to that since some days I'm still there when it gets dark..


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

hooiserarcher said:


> Bows are extremely easier to shoot then they whee 30 years ago. Its that simple.


Modern compound bows shoot sweeter, are quieter, way more durable, and way more faster than bows were 30 years ago...But I dont know if they are easier to shoot than a bow was 30 years ago, if accuracy is the goal...30 years ago, I was just starting down the Archery path, and I was a poor shot...Now, 30 years later, I'm still average at best, but the new bows sure are more pleasant to own and shoot...I still think that my old jade green Cougar Mag with black limbs and gold wheels was a good looking bow, and even I could shoot average with it....L.O.L.............Jim


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## huntnutsbro (May 19, 2007)

biblethumpncop said:


> I think it has more to do with the character of the people that make up a generation. Soap box time:
> 
> 30 years ago- Ronald Reagan was president, the Pledge of Allegiance was in school, young people said "yes sir" and held the door open for women and gave their seat up for the elderly.
> 
> ...


i feel better too. i am only 35 this year and i can see a serious difference in the younger folks. my kids are good kids, but they think of themselves most of the time and not the people around them, even tho i've bent over backwards to teach them right. i also see that none of the younger kids i see today have any common sense, or much of it anyway. lol


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## eaglecaps (Nov 4, 2009)

My dad always said "if common sense were so common more people would have it".


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Unclegus said:


> I'm not sure where in the flip you get the idea that shooting a release is easy. shot fingers for 48 years and now a hook, and I'm just learning what it takes to shoot a hook two years in. It takes work to be very good at either. so don't be blaming the woes of the archery world on a release. that's just total BS. It's cheaters and people who dont want to put in the time to get good no matter what they shoot. The instant gratification crowd thinks a lot of bling and a fancy outfit is the ticket and then they find out you can't buy a score at the local archery shop, thus the whining and gnashing of teeth.. No awards for bling and the fastest bow that I've ever seen. It's easy to talk the talk, but walking the walk is a totally different ball game.


Let's see, how about the first time I shot a release and within 20 arrows I had a robinhood at 20 yards with a bow I hadn't shot before that was an inch shorter DL than I should have been shooting or the first time I tried a thumb release (wanted to see how a guys new Hoyt CRX 32 shot) and tore off one of his fletchings at 20 yards with the 2nd arrow.

And like I said, not all release shooters are bad (it's not like you pick up a release and suddenly want to cheat and complain), it's just that the ease of a release keeps the instant gratification people, that are usually the problem, in the sport; where they probably would have given up if they had to shoot fingers first.

Biblethumpingcop definately has a good point about todays society and its' effect on this. Ozarkbuckslaye has another good one (don't even get me started about payouts to non-professional shooters in archery).


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Supermag1 said:


> Let's see, how about the first time I shot a release and within 20 arrows I had a robinhood at 20 yards with a bow I hadn't shot before that was an inch shorter DL than I should have been shooting or the first time I tried a thumb release (wanted to see how a guys new Hoyt CRX 32 shot) and tore off one of his fletchings at 20 yards with the 2nd arrow.
> 
> And like I said, not all release shooters are bad (it's not like you pick up a release and suddenly want to cheat and complain), it's just that the ease of a release keeps the instant gratification people, that are usually the problem, in the sport; where they probably would have given up if they had to shoot fingers first.
> 
> Biblethumpingcop definately has a good point about todays society and its' effect on this. Ozarkbuckslaye has another good one (don't even get me started about payouts to non-professional shooters in archery).


Yes, kids aren't being taught the things they need to learn about life in general. You have to spend time with kids and also teach them from example.....Competing is tough whether it's release, finger or if it's Tiddly Winks......Back in the eighties I tried to teach a couple of my friends who were starting archery to shoot with fingers and a clicker. that's about as tough as it gets. Both gave up in days and got hooks, so I know what you're saying. Even with a release, you have to shoot against other hook shooters. There were three former national champions in the old fart FS division at our sectional this past weekend. That's a pretty tough crowd to try and compete in no matter how many robinhoods you've shot in the yard.:wink:.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

All that releases do is to put you in a bigger pond with bigger sharks. You still have to work at it. You can only get out of it what you put into it up to a certain point. you can shoot every Minuit of every day & still not beat Jesse. either because you don't have the talent or never had the correct building blocks. I wish that I had discovered back then what I'm doing now. Unfortunately due to age I can't keep it going. Maybe it is a little of not having the same drive. Priorities also have changed.
But then you have some that would run over their mothers for a bowl as was told to me one time.


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Unclegus said:


> Yes, kids aren't being taught the things they need to learn about life in general. You have to spend time with kids and also teach them from example.....Competing is tough whether it's release, finger or if it's Tiddly Winks......Back in the eighties I tried to teach a couple of my friends who were starting archery to shoot with fingers and a clicker. that's about as tough as it gets. Both gave up in days and got hooks, so I know what you're saying. Even with a release, you have to shoot against other hook shooters. There were three former national champions in the old fart FS division at our sectional this past weekend. That's a pretty tough crowd to try and compete in no matter how many robinhoods you've shot in the yard.:wink:.


Competing is tough and the classes put the equipment types together so that the best shooters in each class win, that's why it's always been done (and the thing that really stinks about so many places getting rid of any sort of finger class). The difference comes in the amount of time and effort it takes to transition from a beginning shooter to a good or even average shooter. Since you're a finger to release convert, I ask this question, what was your first competition score with a release and how long had you been shooting fingers before you had a similar score?


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Supermag1 said:


> Competing is tough and the classes put the equipment types together so that the best shooters in each class win, that's why it's always been done (and the thing that really stinks about so many places getting rid of any sort of finger class). The difference comes in the amount of time and effort it takes to transition from a beginning shooter to a good or even average shooter. Since you're a finger to release convert, I ask this question, what was your first competition score with a release and how long had you been shooting fingers before you had a similar score?


I shot fingers for 48 years. Barebow, then Freestyle limited. My first freestyle score was a 518 two years ago with a SCAT hydraulic release. Shot that sucker for six months before I even picked up a BT.... After that many years, I had the basics of form, a lot of discipline from shooting a clicker, and a pretty fair mental game. Also, everything I know has been self taught....Those lessons you don't forget that you learned the hard way. Been shooting the hook for two years and haven't equaled my best finger score yet which was a 538 and a 271 hunter half back in 94. Shot my first 500 field in 78 right after I changed from Barebow. Learned a lot of technique and discipline there too... Father time has something to do with it I think. I do think now that my health is doing better, I still might have a finger 515 /520 in me somewhere. It's not rocket science that you can shoot better with a hook right off the bat, but getting into the area where you have to really work for every point you add to your scores, I think is between the ears and has very little to do with fingers or a hook. Just because top hook scores are higher than top limited scores doesn't mean it's easier to reach that kind of level. Here's a pic of a 60y group I shot with fingers and a Barnsdale right before I changed over. Yes, there are fewer finger shooters. that's one of the reason I changed. When you go to a bigger shoot and there's lots of people there, and You're still shooting with the same core group youve been shooting with for years, I figured it's time to meet new people, and I have...To some extent. A lot of the guys I shoot with at sectional level are old finger shooters gone to senior FS that I shot with for years. I didn't write that story, I just told it.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> I shot fingers for 48 years. Barebow, then Freestyle limited. My first freestyle score was a 518 two years ago with a SCAT hydraulic release. Shot that sucker for six months before I even picked up a BT.... After that many years, I had the basics of form, a lot of discipline from shooting a clicker, and a pretty fair mental game. Also, everything I know has been self taught....Those lessons you don't forget that you learned the hard way. Been shooting the hook for two years and haven't equaled my best finger score yet which was a 538 and a 271 hunter half back in 94. Shot my first 500 field in 78 right after I changed from Barebow. Learned a lot of technique and discipline there too... Father time has something to do with it I think. I do think now that my health is doing better, I still might have a finger 515 /520 in me somewhere. It's not rocket science that you can shoot better with a hook right off the bat, but getting into the area where you have to really work for every point you add to your scores, I think is between the ears and has very little to do with fingers or a hook. Just because top hook scores are higher than top limited scores doesn't mean it's easier to reach that kind of level. Here's a pic of a 60y group I shot with fingers and a Barnsdale right before I changed over. Yes, there are fewer finger shooters. that's one of the reason I changed. When you go to a bigger shoot and there's lots of people there, and You're still shooting with the same core group youve been shooting with for years, I figured it's time to meet new people, and I have...To some extent. A lot of the guys I shoot with at sectional level are old finger shooters gone to senior FS that I shot with for years. I didn't write that story, I just told it.


 pretty good old man


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

brtesite said:


> pretty good old man


Thanks, Mike. Old is definitely the key word in that sentence. The older I get, the better I was.:wink:


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## AJ the TP Guru (Jul 29, 2011)

Uhhhh, no.

I'm recalling just as high a percentage of guys sandbagging back in the 50s & 60s as today. Also, the only time I actually was asked by a guy to help him cheat (I was the scorekeeper) was in 1959, and that guy worked for a leading archery equipment manufacturer! He wanted to give me a box of arrows to win a stupid little medal! I just looked at him with my mouth wide open, and turned away.

What is different is how much faster we shot back then. Most guys were instinctive shooters, and typically got pissed if they found themselves behind a bunch of freestylers.

Having said that, I'm oh-so-happy for the invenetion of the release aid. I'd go home from a tournament (typically 56 targets of four arrows each) with bloody fingers. Plus, even at my advanced age, I can better hit what I'm aiming at.

As for the target panic mentioned above, been there, done that.... *twice*. But I'm probably the only guy here who figured out a way to get over it, and is currently marketing that approach (with a money-back deal - see below).


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## Tashaz (Jun 17, 2012)

Unclegus said:


> Thanks, Mike. Old is definitely the key word in that sentence. The older I get, the better I was.:wink:


LMAO. True in most of our lives. :thumbs_up


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Supermag1 said:


> Let's see, how about the first time I shot a release and within 20 arrows I had a robinhood at 20 yards with a bow I hadn't shot before that was an inch shorter DL than I should have been shooting or the first time I tried a thumb release (wanted to see how a guys new Hoyt CRX 32 shot) and tore off one of his fletchings at 20 yards with the 2nd arrow.
> 
> And like I said, not all release shooters are bad (it's not like you pick up a release and suddenly want to cheat and complain), it's just that the ease of a release keeps the instant gratification people, that are usually the problem, in the sport; where they probably would have given up if they had to shoot fingers first.
> 
> Biblethumpingcop definately has a good point about todays society and its' effect on this. Ozarkbuckslaye has another good one (don't even get me started about payouts to non-professional shooters in archery).


I don’t know, I’ve never shot fingers and when I started shooting only 3 ½ years ago it was with a hinge in my hand. I’m still trying to learn to use that thing properly so I try to get in some solid archery practice about 5-6 days a week. Learning to shoot a hinge or hook release is NOT easy. I also do not expect anything to be handed to me on a silver platter, so please do not stuff all release shooters into that barrel. Similar to Gus, I had 2 National champions in my group at Mids, who used to also shoot in the Pro division, and I can tell ya, it is not easy improving your competition scores with or without a release when you also have to keep that mush between your ears clear when often shooting with/against people of that caliper. But I did manage to bleed out one 261 half there… haha

Although on one level, it’s an invaluable learning experience that I personally enjoy very much, but on the other hand, the ego does take a major beating—over and over again, and if you do not have the internal fortitude to dust yourself off and hit the practice bales afterward, I can see how this could lead to wanting to rush the process and all the negativity that carries with it. 

It’s also not easy starting off in the sport when middle aged instead of when you’re a young pup. The body is constantly trying to real in your goals and it takes that much more effort to do what a younger person can do with ease—yet the learning curve remains the same. Did I mention yet that archery is HARD??? 

I do not feel it is the equipment that has caused this negative change in archery, the core challenges remain there whether shooting a recurve, compound, with fingers or release, but the character of the younger shooters is different than the character of the older shooters I have come to know. That is probably where the main problem lies as many have already stated.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

I was 20 years younger


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Why? There wasn't as much crap to put on the bow 20-30 years ago...So no crap excuses. If you missed a shot it was all you, not the release, not the fancy rest, not the sight...all you. Now, like everything else, everyone has to have the latest gadget to make them shoot better....spend money money and I'll be better. 

Why was it better? We were better people, in general...we worked for what we wanted. 

I can't comment on the new "Better" bows since I'm just getting back into the hobby but can say I'm very disappointed. I went into bass pro's yesterday wanting feathered arrows, a flipper rest and a plunger...nope, couldn't get it. They sold recurves but no arrows for them...wow. The best I could do for a rest was a two prong spring rest...don't remember the name but about 30 bucks. The other rests were 50-140 bucks...REALLY? Will I go back, no. 

I've been told, "you have to use a release"...biggest crock I've heard. How about learn to shoot first? If you roll off the cams, it's your fault...learn to draw a bow.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Fury90flier said:


> Why? There wasn't as much crap to put on the bow 20-30 years ago...So no crap excuses. If you missed a shot it was all you, not the release, not the fancy rest, not the sight...all you. Now, like everything else, everyone has to have the latest gadget to make them shoot better....spend money money and I'll be better.
> 
> Why was it better? We were better people, in general...we worked for what we wanted.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the 21st Century....:sad:


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

yea, I know...Got to have it now and it's never my fault mentality.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

and it's OK to fail; I'm OK and you're OK.....give EVERYONE a trophy.....GROUP HUG HERE :grouphug:


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> and it's OK to fail; I'm OK and you're OK.....give EVERYONE a trophy.....GROUP HUG HERE :grouphug:


me first, me first


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Finger shooters are cheating. They can never leave home without their release. It doesnt have screws to back out and allow it to fall apart. You dont have to use a d loop to cure nock pinch. It doesnt loose adjustment IF you keep practicing with it. Just kidding- but it aint all bad to shoot fingers now that i look at it like this.


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## Temper (Jun 27, 2012)

Not sure what all the "new" negativity is about since I've only been into archery for 2 weeks now... but I was surprised to learn that at my newly joined club, a club and range that has been around for over 40 years, my daughter and I are only the 6th and 7th traditional (recurve/longbow) shooters. Everyone else is compound which seem to me to be more like guns than bows. I don't have any sights on my bow and don't think I want any. Instinctive shooting holds the most interest for me. See a target and hit a target.


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## Temper (Jun 27, 2012)

Not that I can "see a target and hit a target"... but that's what I'm working toward.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

You're not the norm. Typically I've seen, it cost more so it must be better, or I need that gadget to shoot better.

Just got back from getting some arrows and again was disappointed. I wanted a flipper rest and a plunger...nope. Now to be fair, they were just out of stock but had plenty of machine rests. I wanted a plane plate site with some brass pins...nope, all fiberoptic. No way I'm spending more than 20 bucks on a sight...and all I want is a couple pins.

They guy at the shop was very helpful and he knew exactly what I wanted and why...just I'm not the norm anymore. 

Things have changed and not necessarily for the better.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

My guess is Back in the early days of NFAA there were only two Champions in freestyle and two champions in Barebow men and women not counting youth and cubs.Then came Bowhunter then came Frestyle limited then came Bowhunter Freestyle then came Bowhunter Freestyle limited the came Trad. then came the Senior's of which I am oneand the super seinor. I am sure I don't have each division in the right order of origin so don't beat me up just yet. Are you getting my point yet we don't know who are Champions are unless they are in your division of choice. and their are about 60 or so. I have watched our numbers just keep going down and the rules get bigger. If you go to the NFAA outdoor it seems like we give away a 100 or so awards. where will it end?

Just my thoughts
Gary


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

2413gary said:


> I have watched our numbers just keep going down and the rules get bigger. If you go to the NFAA outdoor it seems like we give away a 100 or so awards. where will it end?
> 
> Just my thoughts
> Gary


 The squeaky wheels always gets the grease.


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