# Ordered New Stabs Tonight..



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> Just thought I would share some excitement and ask for some input. I decided to order some new stabs tonight to finish up my field archery setup for my first season. I know a lot of you will probably tell me I should have gotten the "name brand" stuff like B-stingers or Doinkers, but I like trying newer products and supporting the little guys. Anyway, a few months ago I got a 12" stab for my 3D rig (that I haven't shot recently because I decided to focus on field) and really like how it is made, etc. It is from "coachbernie" here on AT. His Control Freak stabs. I got a 35" long .85" diameter front stab and 14" side bar. I am anxious to get them and see how much better they are than my older Posten aluminum stabs. One main question is how much weight are you guys with 35" stabs running in the front and side? He suggested starting with about 3 ounces in front which sounded reasonable, but I was surprised he said it would probably take at least 12-14 ounces in the back on the 14" bar. Does this sound about right? Any thoughts on my decision to give them a try? You can tell me if you think I should have stuck with the name brands, I won't be offended!


Just read a good article on that very subject. Take the length of your front rod, multiply it by the amount of weight you have on it, then divide that number by the length of your side bar. So in your case 35x3=105/14=7.5


----------



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Oh, and you should have got B-stingers lol.


----------



## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

BOWGOD said:


> Just read a good article on that very subject. Take the length of your front rod, multiply it by the amount of weight you have on it, then divide that number by the length of your side bar. So in your case 35x3=105/14=7.5


Yeah.. I was thinking 14 ounces sounded like an awful lot. I got enough weights that I can go that high if I need to, but am hoping I don't need that much. He said he has balanced hundreds of bows though and was pretty confident I would need that much. I guess by hopefully Monday or Tuesday I will know for sure!


----------



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> Yeah.. I was thinking 14 ounces sounded like an awful lot. I got enough weights that I can go that high if I need to, but am hoping I don't need that much. He said he has balanced hundreds of bows though and was pretty confident I would need that much. I guess by hopefully Monday or Tuesday I will know for sure!


I literally just finished reading Griv's article 20 minutes before you posted. If you want to borrow the magazine I'll lend it to you. He goes into pretty good detail on how to properly set up a stabilizer system.


----------



## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

BOWGOD said:


> I literally just finished reading Griv's article 20 minutes before you posted. If you want to borrow the magazine I'll lend it to you. He goes into pretty good detail on how to properly set up a stabilizer system.


sounds good to me.. shame I didn't order Monday instead of tonight. I could have had them here for the weekend. Oh well, will give me something to look forward to and lose sleep over! lol


----------



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Yeah I just ordered my outdoor arrows today, so I'm playing the waiting game as well. I put off ordering them as long as I could because I know once I get them set up the cabin fever is going to do me in. I'll know next week whether or not we'll be in the shoot off for league. If we don't make the shoot off, the outdoor bow is getting set up next Thursday night.


----------



## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

cool.. I am still waiting on the guy I am buying a second S4 from to get his act together so I can have a dedicated field archery bow, but I changed over from indoor to outdoor last weekend. Man it is convenient having a 75-80 yard shot in my back yard! The yard even has a fair amount of shape to it so I can practice uphill, downhill, standing on the side of a slope, etc..


----------



## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Before adding weight to the side rod (but with the side rod installed, just with no weight) you should get the bow to sit in your hand the way you want it (amount of forward roll or sit upright). the amount of weight on the end of the long rod will vary depending on the geometry of your handle and the mass weight of your limbs. This is your front base weight. For example, a Hoyt ultra elite will require less tip weight than a Pro elite for the same balance in the hand. This is due to the deflex handle vs. the reflex handle. The proelite has more limb weight behind your hand so the bow wants to roll back more than the ultra.

Then you would add rear weight to front weight as stated earlier by BG but do not include the base front weight in your calculation of rear weight, only the additional front weight added along with rear weight.

This way, the bow will retain the balance that you determined originally. It may not be perfect but is the best ratio that can be determined. Even with the 1 oz. weights used by B-S the ration may not always be a perfect calculation.


----------



## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

I have a 36" B-Stinger Premier with 4.25oz. out front.

I have a single 12" V-bar mounted to a B-stinger mount that is pointing straight back and it has 15ozs. on it. 

This is on a Martin Shadowcat and is perfect for ME and THIS particular bow.


----------



## Nomad_Archer (Aug 27, 2008)

Im running a single 36" specialty ultra light on my PE. It probably has about 3oz out front. The PE is a heavier bow so I didnt need to add a lot of weight out front just enough to keep it steady.


----------



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

The little guy.....your misinformed for sure my friend. :doh: 

archery's peddling salesman is far from a "little guy"....nice to see he learned something while he was in the seminar on stabilizers that B-Stinger put on :zip: I guess he didn't explain why or what to do with the weight though once it's on there....that must have been covered after he ran out :chortle: 

As for your setup you don't need to worry about how much I have or anyone else has on the bar....weight and side bar angles are too much of a personal thing...heck when I changed limbs I had to change weight and angles all together....

your shooting your bar and I am shooting mine. I set it up to work for me :wink: 

But I have 6 on my 35" bar and 10 on my side rod....but my side rod is 10" but it is also mounted on the back of the riser so it is more like having a 13" rod or so. 

I think for your weight....if you stay at 3 or 4 on the front you may have a lot on the side bar with 12+...but maybe not. Your probably gonna need some time to get used to it that's for sure. 

Once you get the stuff and get it on the bow give me a call if you need some help getting dialed in. . 

A good starting point though would also be to read GRIVs new article on stabilizers :wink:


----------



## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

I got 9oz on the front of a 36" bar and 14 or so on the back of a 15" bar... Works well for me


----------



## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

BOWGOD said:


> Just read a good article on that very subject. Take the length of your front rod, multiply it by the amount of weight you have on it, then divide that number by the length of your side bar. So in your case 35x3=105/14=7.5


Except that some bows are more rear heavy to begin with and vice versa. That formula from GRIV is really just a starting point. That is what works for him. So what Bernie stated is also correct. You MAY need up to 14 oz.


----------



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Rattleman said:


> Except that some bows are more rear heavy to begin with and vice versa. That formula from GRIV is really just a starting point. That is what works for him. So what Bernie stated is also correct. You MAY need up to 14 oz.


Not only that....but using the "formula" I won't be even thinking about using what it gives me.....17.5 on my side rod won't be happening that's for sure :nono:

Maybe using my setup tweaks would give me something to try at 14 oz....but like I stated earlier the angle of your side rod plays a HUGE part in how much weight you need.


----------



## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> ... using the "formula" ....


Could you imagine what the formula would tell Reo to put on a back bar...


----------



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> Could you imagine what the formula would tell Reo to put on a back bar...



:faint:


----------



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Rattleman said:


> Except that some bows are more rear heavy to begin with and vice versa. That formula from GRIV is really just a starting point. That is what works for him. So what Bernie stated is also correct. You MAY need up to 14 oz.





Brown Hornet said:


> Not only that....but using the "formula" I won't be even thinking about using what it gives me.....17.5 on my side rod won't be happening that's for sure :nono:
> 
> Maybe using my setup tweaks would give me something to try at 14 oz....but like I stated earlier the angle of your side rod plays a HUGE part in how much weight you need.


Never said it was the end all be all, but it does give the novice a good place to get started. 
Just for kicks, and giggles I used the formula for my set up, it said I need 14 onces on my side bar, so I gave it a shot. It's adding almost half a pound to me bow, but at full draw I don't feel the extra weight. It balances rather nicely. I need to order some more weights, and do some playing here next week. I want to do some shooting with 14 OZ's on the side, and see what the bow thinks about it. But I have a feeling it might just work out.


----------



## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

I tried it, but I ran out of weight before I could get the required back weight. I've got 7.5 oz on the end of my 36" main bar and now have 15 on the back bar....which was an increase of 3 oz on the back bar from what I had. It made a big difference in how the bow held but I had also left my large set of wrenches at home so I couldn't play with the angle either. I'll have to find 3 more ounces of weight or play around with the angle some to see if the hold improves even further.......I did manage to get a set of marks for next weekend!!! Outdoors has officially begun!!!


----------



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Well I realized today that my side rod is actually 12" and not 10"  I actually measured it today :chortle:

So my "formula" numbers change a little :wink:

so I get 8.75 and I am shooting 10 right now


----------



## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> Well I realized today that my side rod is actually 12" and not 10"  I actually measured it today :chortle:
> 
> So my "formula" numbers change a little :wink:
> 
> so I get 8.75 and I am shooting 10 right now


I better not comment on BH not knowing how long his rod is.....


----------



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

golfingguy27 said:


> I better not comment on BH not knowing how long his rod is.....


brothas usually just look at it and say damn that's big.....you all do all the measuring


----------



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

brown hornet said:


> brothas usually just look at it and say damn that's big.....you all do all the measuring :d


your still the King


----------



## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> brothas usually just look at it and say damn that's big.....you all do all the measuring


Was along the lines I was thinking with a different twist, but I don't know you well enough to have gone down that road.. lol


----------



## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Ugh.. would be my luck.. the new stabs came today, but one bow is being torn down to be sent out to be refinished, and the other is still being set up... hopefully tomorrow I will be able to give them a try. I did throw them on my Alien X just for the heck of it. Never got the balance just right, but it did seem to hold nice!


----------



## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Rattleman said:


> Except that some bows are more rear heavy to begin with and vice versa. That formula from GRIV is really just a starting point. That is what works for him. So what Bernie stated is also correct. You MAY need up to 14 oz.


WORD...

The "formula" is just basic physics for offsetting leverage. However beginning balance may require you to divert from the basics. I have set up several bows that required less tip weight and more rear weight. Some bows required the rods to be set lower on the bow to offset the top heavy nature of the brand. 

The most raw basics are this... 

From the instant the release opens, you no longer have control over the bow. You don't want any movement built into the system because of lack of balance. I don't expect you to balance the bow on a nail head or anything extreme like that, but if your bow has instant roll to the side when you open your hand, that will be an instant inconsistency that happens every time the release opens. 

You need a high Moment Of Inertia (the bows resistance to rotation). Take a look at your front stabilizer at full draw. Note how it points to the right (right handed shooter) when you are at full draw, yet at rest everything is in line. What do you think the first reaction is once the release opens? yes, it will snap back straight. You want the weight of the stabilizer system to keep the bow in position for at least 70 milliseconds. This will allow the arrow to clear the rest before the bow moves. If you don't have enough weight to slow the movement (a high MOI), or if your weight is separated from the rod with rubber, it may allow movement before the arrow can clear. This is another small layer of inconsistency that allows micro corrections to your aim as the arrow is leaving the bow. The more rigid the rod is, the more consistent it will be. Rubber does make it feel nice, but if the rubber is soft or if it allows too much movement of the rod before the weight can slow it down, it will not be as forgiving as it can be. Doinker has a new module on the end of their rods that allows you to select and "tune" the stiffness of the rubber module. I recommend making it as rigid as you possibly can.

I shoot B-stingers. The rods are not only stiff, but they are the right stiffness for archery. Again, It takes in the neighborhood of 70 milliseconds for an arrow to get out of the bow. The rod needs to be stiff enough to keep the bow in place for that time frame without being so rigid that the shot is harsh with too much felt vibration and ring. B-Stinger has done a great job in that respect. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

My current setup is this

Contender Elite 27.5" with a custom grip riser to set the angle to 25°. 

33" B-stinger with 8oz on the tip. A 15" rear rod with 16oz on the back and it is set to be straight back as close to the shooting string as I dare to reduce side to side roll.


----------

