# Tips for standing up straight



## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Here is a picture so you can see what I mean.


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## swampbillies (Mar 19, 2013)

Have you tried a knee brace?


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Nope. I probably have one kicking around somewhere though. It's not really form my leg being weaker anymore it's more so the habit of always weighting my left leg. Even if i'm just standing somewhere my weight is always biased and i'm never truly standing up straight.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

You should have more weight on your forward leg. Just don't relax and bend your back leg and try to keep your hips centered. Keep in mind also that the "perfect" AT form is not always what works best. The straighter you can stand will help you keep your bow arm shoulder down, but from what I see in your pic, you don't have that problem.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

cbrunson said:


> You should have more weight on your forward leg. Just don't relax and bend your back leg and try to keep your hips centered. Keep in mind also that the "perfect" AT form is not always what works best. The straighter you can stand will help you keep your bow arm shoulder down, but from what I see in your pic, you don't have that problem.


Actually this picture was taken because I was working on dropping my shoulder and locking it in. This caused my "DL" to change slightly which I why i'm toying with going shorter.

The hard part is trying to center my hips. When I slide them back it feels totally awkward and like i'm leaning way back, but even though it feels like that I may be standing perfectly straight. I think i'm going to have to talk the wife into gettin another mirror so I can steal the old one to practice in the garage with...


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## Mestang99 (Jan 10, 2013)

You can stand in a doorway and let the edge of the door frame tell you if you are standing up straight or not. The biggest thing people forget is that how ever you shoot it needs to be consistent. If you have to think about standing up straight and don't want to spend months retraining your muscles then shoot how you are comfortable. The Pros shoot consistently and shoot THEIR perfect form not some made up ideal form that should work the best in theory if were were all built the same...


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Mestang99 said:


> You can stand in a doorway and let the edge of the door frame tell you if you are standing up straight or not. The biggest thing people forget is that how ever you shoot it needs to be consistent. If you have to think about standing up straight and don't want to spend months retraining your muscles then shoot how you are comfortable. The Pros shoot consistently and shoot THEIR perfect form not some made up ideal form that should work the best in theory if were were all built the same...


I hear ya. The only problem is my current stance lends to me starting to lean back and drop my arm when I need to shoot a target lower than shoulder level rather then bending at the waist. This causing my pin float to go all to hell. So while it might suck, I'm willing to put in the time to retrain my leg. I'm finally starting to hit the gym to work on building the strength back up in my right leg. PRobably shouldn't have waited 15 years! I'll try the doorway thing though. Sounds promising.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Mestang99 said:


> You can stand in a doorway and let the edge of the door frame tell you if you are standing up straight or not. *The biggest thing people forget is that how ever you shoot it needs to be consistent. If you have to think about standing up straight and don't want to spend months retraining your muscles then shoot how you are comfortable.* The Pros shoot consistently and shoot THEIR perfect form not some made up ideal form that should work the best in theory if were were all built the same...


Yep. Whatever you gotta do to keep that shoulder down and be consistent. The DL should feel slightly shorter with your shoulder down and arm straight, not longer.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

cbrunson said:


> Yep. Whatever you gotta do to keep that shoulder down and be consistent. The DL should feel slightly shorter with your shoulder down and arm straight, not longer.


I should clarify that. I went from and extended shoulder where I would actually push it out towards the target to consciously setting it back when I draw. I never actually shot with a high shoulder.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

Hey You know i never get in on the hows my form threads, because some folks are train wrecks waiting to happen. I got to say basically your form looks really good. The whole bow shoulder thing you have been working on is looking pretty good to me. I think you should see some pretty good results fairly quickly with your new bow shoulder. 

I got a trick I use a lot for people with stance trouble, actually I use it for all people. Sometimes I like to over exaggerate things while learning new things. So here is my exaggerated way to get people to stand up straight.

Do every thing just like your doing it now except the things I mention. 

feet shoulder width apart
Lean forward until your back heel comes off the ground.
Lift your bow to target height, like normal 
draw, like normal
set up, like normal
anchor, like normal
Shift your weight back toward your back foot until your heel barely touches the ground. 

After you get the feel of more weight on your front leg you may be able to cut out all the heel coming off the ground thing and just lean forward to place that amount of weight on your front leg and do everything just like you normally do. Let us know if it helped incase someone does a search with your same issue.

You know there has been many times in my early archery life that I wish my problems were that simple. I dont have any pics of way back when but I bet my form looked like a pretzel.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Very good advice. ^^^^^

Dont over think the form stuff. You're pretty close already.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thatnks Blue I'll definitely try that! I've taken a lot of pictures to get my form to where it is lol and it's starting to pay off. Just have a few more things to tweak.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

How to train a archery wife!

good archery wife is hard to beat and almost as important as the bow its self. I bet my wife has marked 10,000 arrows at full draw and some after she done went to bed. 

Make sure you brag on what a good job she does and how the pics she takes are perfect like you knew they would be. Sometimes get her to mark an arrow or take a picture even if you dont need one so you can brag on how good she is at it. Put a little something special in it for her like always saying thanks and shell get up in the middle of the night in her underwear and mark arrows at the rest for you without fussing. Archery wasnt in her white picket fence dream but you telling her she did a good job and pleasing you was. So put something in it for her. 

Always, always tell her she did a good job even if your diagonal in the pic. Then say hey can you take another one with me standing straight up. I think this would go under mental training. 

I bet if my non shooting wife ever married another man she could teach him how to tune and shoot a bow pretty good. 

Blue X


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

ride394 said:


> And before the obvious... My draw weight is not too heavy, and my DL is not too long. Well it might be a hlaf inch long, but i've been playing with that to try to get the steadiest hold. My problem is with my legs and getting my weight sentered over my hips. This is do to an ACL injury/repair that was never rehabbed properly *causing me to favor my left leg*. I don't really have a full length mirror that I can "pose" in front of and my only other option of seeing what I'm doing is to have my wife take pictures, and that gets real old for her after about 5 minutes lol. Does anyone have any suggestions to help me even this out?


Not that it matters, but where I come from you are "favoring" the bad/right leg. Not sure what Blue is saying, unless he just accidentally said it backwards from what he meant. Your weight (80%) is ALREADY on the front/left leg.

I feel sure that it would pay big dividends to rehab the knee and work toward a balanced form. What you are doing with all the weight slid forward may work ok indoors or on flat ground, but I think it will cause trouble with balance on a rough ground or hilly 3d or field range, or in the wind. You are probably shifting the weight before you draw and leaving it there. I would work on a balanced/centered draw and shot. 

Keep up the hard work.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

TNMAN said:


> Not that it matters, but where I come from you are "favoring" the bad/right leg. Not sure what Blue is saying, unless he just accidentally said it backwards from what he meant. Your weight (80%) is ALREADY on the front/left leg.
> 
> I feel sure that it would pay big dividends to rehab the knee and work toward a balanced form. What you are doing with all the weight slid forward may work ok indoors or on flat ground, but I think it will cause trouble with balance on a rough ground or hilly 3d or field range, or in the wind. You are probably shifting the weight before you draw and leaving it there. I would work on a balanced/centered draw and shot.
> 
> Keep up the hard work.


Dont think im arguing with you in any way because You are right in all your statements id say hes already like 98% weight on the front leg. You are also correct in the hips being shifted forward before the draw to favor the bad leg. 

I didnt say it backward, I see it kinda like a one legged man leaning back. The procedure to lean toward the target before the draw until the back heel comes up and then after anchor to come back to where the heel barely touches the ground should get him straight over his front leg without leaning back.

I think it is very important to have a straight up front side to keep the bow shoulder plumb so it wont climb up. I never had any luck with even or centered stance because its so easy to lean back if just 1 degree. IMO The bow shoulder is the most important piece of form in archery. The only way I have ever found to 100% keep that shoulder where it needs to be is to do like I posted earlier. Bow shoulder over hip over knee over ankle keeps that bow shoulder down and plumb. 1 degree lean back makes a ramp for the bow shoulder to ride up on. 

The guy has some killer top half form, as close as perfect as youre ever going to see. When he gets that front end in a straight up line id say hell be pretty tough to handle at any thing he shoots. For a home study he has done really good.

I hope you see that I am not arguing with you. 

Blue X


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Blue, we both just died reading that! Hahahahahaha


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks guys I'm definitely going to take your advice to work on that lower half. I appreciate the compliments on the upper half. 

I shot a 266 (no bonus rings or I would have been in the 270s) at a 3d this weekend and I know all my bad shots were due to me breaking my form and dropping my arm. It's a learning process for me and will probably take all season to get to where I want to be. My personal goal is to get up into the 290s and I'm hoping with a few tweaks and some stabilizer adjustments I'll get there!


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## c.sitas (Dec 29, 2010)

Hey Blue X, sounds like you have been married almost as long as me.Just playin hear. No matter what, she is your most and bestus fan, Got love it. Havin fun is the name of the game ,no matter how hard we work.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

c.sitas said:


> Hey Blue X, sounds like you have been married almost as long as me.Just playin hear. No matter what, she is your most and bestus fan, Got love it. Havin fun is the name of the game ,no matter how hard we work.


I figured id kill 2 birds with one stone. One problem the guy knew he had and one that hey may have had. lol

Ive learned a few things about women after raising a daughter. #1 rule there born like that #2 rule work with it instead of against it.

Imagine a big round rolling wheel pie chart cut in three equal pieces. The first being called physically strong, the second being called mentally strong, the third being called emotionally strong. Each one of these pieces have to be strong to shoot good scores. If any piece of the wheel has a flat spot, every time it rolls around it will stop you for a while. A good home life is as important as a good bow shoulder and good form and a good stance.

The wife (and kids)fits in the emotionally and mentally strong sections. You can do good for a while practicing and competing and having fun and not take their needs into account. We older married people know that wont last long before the wifes emotional needs become a flat spot on our archery wheel. If a man is going to be spending family money on archery and spending time practicing he has to use the extra time he has to still meet his wifes emotional needs and she will be more happy which eliminates flat spots on your archery wheel. So with the limited time be nice and kind and understanding and put the bow down sometimes and make sure shes getting what she needs also. It dont cost anything to be nice to your woman. Most of the time she controls both the money and the entertainment, I can tell you being nice to your woman will pay off and show up on your score.

I would venture to say not many womens child hood doll house had a archery shop in it.

Im out later
Blue X


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## c.sitas (Dec 29, 2010)

Blue X ; you are a well rounded archer. I like your thinking.I'm happily married 42 years. Best deer and bear hunting buddy anyone could ask for.My wife and I been a lot of places,had fun , and made it back. She is older than I. Things are down to an idle now. Ride 394 is off to a great start, wife and all.Like you say , he has a good front end, plus he has youth.I'd have to say once a woman knows, they can be a great coach. They watch for things we men over look .Young bucks pay attention.HA Ha.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

That is true. She actually caught me on Sunday using my "old" shoulder and she said it looks like you're trying too hard and you shake when you push your arm out. I'm lucky as she shoots also, although nowhere near consumed by it like myself. Nothing better than a family 3d hike on Sunday.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

ride394 said:


> That is true. She actually caught me on Sunday using my "old" shoulder and she said it looks like you're trying too hard and you shake when you push your arm out. I'm lucky as she shoots also, although nowhere near consumed by it like myself. Nothing better than a family 3d hike on Sunday.


I got my wife to go brave the wind and cold Sunday with me. She shot really well for not shooting all winter. She hit a lot of tens past 40. I was excited for her, but she was upset because she missed a couple. I really enjoy having her shoot with me.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Little update. Here's my current form. It's still a conscious part of my setup, but my float has gotten smaller and I'm shooting better. Just have to work on getting rid of the slight lean back.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

ride394 said:


> Little update. Here's my current form. It's still a conscious part of my setup, but my float has gotten smaller and I'm shooting better. Just have to work on getting rid of the slight lean back.
> View attachment 1949369


Ok I looked at your picture and you have made leaps and bounds in improving your form. Theres still a little work to do but Lets leave it at that for a week or so and work on repeating your set up and shot sequence as it is now. As people learn it is important to leave room to shoot and have fun. So shoot for a week or so and have fun and mentally relax with your bow, after all it is supposed to be a stress relieving hobby not all work. So have a little fun and learn to repeat your form and set up. Your form looks good and your set up is pretty good and those things will follow you your entire life. You dont have to change anything in your shot sequence and set up or form, your pretty good shape except one easy to change thing. 

What I would suggest next is shortening up the draw length to pull that back end up until your spine is vertical. Do everything exactly the same as you do now except with a shorter draw length. Same form same shot sequence same anchor same everything, just with a shorter draw length. 

So far you have gotten yourself a good form and set up and shot sequence that will last you for ever. After you get a finished draw length you can use the bow as the constant and focus on learning to repeat your form, shot sequence and set up. 

Always put your progress on the forum so other people can see your progress incase someone with your issues ever uses the search feature on AT. 

Its been a pleasure helping you out. You have one heck of a work ethic and your progress shows it. 

Blue X


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks, Blue! You've helped a ton. Should I shorten a full 1/2" or should I twist up the string to to get 1/4" or so?


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

I dont get into the hows my form threads but for your work ethic I feel compelled to help you out. But I cant stress enough the you need to do the same exact things your doing now, except with a shorter draw length.

By shortening your draw length I would like to pull that back end up and move the red line forward to where the blue line is. With the pse you should be able to shorten up an inch by moving the module position. 

Blue X


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

A full inch??? Damn that's going to kill my already slow speed! Lol. I'll give it a shot. It sounds like I'm going to feel way scrunched up. I'll try it out tomorrow and post back. 

Guess it's time to search for some super light arrows...


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

ride394 said:


> A full inch??? Damn that's going to kill my already slow speed! Lol. I'll give it a shot. It sounds like I'm going to feel way scrunched up. I'll try it out tomorrow and post back.
> 
> Guess it's time to search for some super light arrows...


Start with a half inch and take pictures and open them in paint and play with it and learn. I am guessing with a pic that your going to be shortening up closer to an inch but it is a pic and you cant really tell in pics. 

Speed is a non issue, You cant trade off good form and stability for speed. Speed is basically what it is when your set up for stability. You can use speed balls and build lighter arrows or use lighter strings and cables. Practice your judging more if your into 3D or shoot known, practice more at long range if your into long range outdoor target because 70-90meters will be a little tougher with slowed down range speed. Indoor I think you could have an advantage because your bow is closer to your body but you may have to stay with 23's instead of 27's

Were all wierd in some ways, We all have trade what we need less to get what we need more. A slow hit will always score more than a fast miss, plus you have to walk farther to get you arrow.

Blue X


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I think if you rotated that pic slightly, it would look better. I'll see what I can do when I get on a real computer.

BTW, we normally don't do the "how's my form?" Thing here, but I think this discussion is the exception to the rule.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

Mahly, He started his thread before the new rules and he is one of my people so I didnt think youd get to mad if I replied. He is a tournament archer and is putting forth a lot of effort to learn to shoot better scores in archery tournaments after getting better from a bad leg accident. And doing good I might add. 

Plus we dont wanna make anybody from Jersey to mad, there all mobsters you know. 

Thank you for your understanding
Blue X


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Oh no! I'm not mad! This is one of the better discussions, hence the exception.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Blue, Someone on a not too distant branch of my family tree may or may not have been connected... 

Thanks, Mahly. I'm really looking forward to shortening up my DL tonight to see how it feels. I was doing pretty good on the 5-spot target last night, but i'm really struggling with vegas X's. I'm hoping this change get's me pounding the center rather than beating the hell out of the sides.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Just be sure to tell us what worked for you, so we can all put that in to our bags of tricks!


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Mahly said:


> Just be sure to tell us what worked for you, so we can all put that in to our bags of tricks!


Absolutely! I'm going to start with 1/2" when I get home, shoot for a while and study my float, and see how my execution is then i'll post up some pictures. Then I'll write up my steps that got me from my first pic to wherever I end up tonight. I'll probably leave it at the 1/2" at least for a week or 2 so I can get some time behind the bow and see how it feels and how I shoot before I drop down a full inch.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

We'll I'm starting to get frustrated. I tried 1/2" and 1" shorter. I still see some leaning. I have a feeling it may be due to the way I set my bow shoulder down and back. I can almost feel the lean happen when I do it. Here's the pics.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

I kept my loop the same as I'm not sure what length I'm going to end up with. I guess I need to shoot some paper to see what the actual results are.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Just tried something else. I was doing everything the same as blue had suggested which was always to set my should down and back to set into my anchor. This time I set the shoulder but then went the the string for my anchor. Any better?


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

ride394 said:


> Just tried something else. I was doing everything the same as blue had suggested which was always to set my should down and back to set into my anchor. This time I set the shoulder but then went the the string for my anchor. Any better?
> 
> View attachment 1950049


Now your getting somewhere, that is looking real good. 

You know there is always stuff that only you can figure out. No matter how good a coach is, we cant ever see thru your peep and we cant ever feel what you feel. But we can get you really close and get you on a good path and save you time on your learning curve. Learning to shoot better scores encompasses learning more about every part of archery. Increase your knowledge, increase your scores. As far as coaches go we can track averages, read targets and see patterns but we cant shoot for you nor feel what you feel or see what you see. 

My suggestions would be to leave the bow alone for a few weeks and shoot everyday. Write down your shot sequence and learn to repeat your set up and when you miss more some days, dont change anything on your bow, just learn to repeat your form and shot sequence. If you score less when you go to your next tournament, dont change anything, learn to repeat your form and shot sequence and the scores will come. 

When you get your form draw length and shot sequence most of the work in archery is over, then it is just learning to repeat. Your form and your draw length will work for you for your entire life and can then be trusted and turned over to the subconscious and you can just shoot again and the fun comes back better than ever. 

Having confidence in, and knowing your equipment, your form, your shot sequence, your practice and knowing your average is your mental plan. 

You have done good work, now go have fun and learn to repeat and keep us informed.

Blue X


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Tried one more back at the middle 26.5" and went to the string again.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

Thats the best pic yet. The 26.5" seems to fit you real good. And 26.5 fits perfectly with the arm span divided by 2.5 method for determining draw length. While it may not be spot on for every body on earth, if used it could prevent people from being inchs over their draw length. I think it is an awesome easy repeatable method for determining initial draw length. 

You have came a long way from your initial post in your thread. I think with your work ethic you will do good at archery. It is always good to see people find the missing pieces and to put them together and see the success they have worked for. 

I am really appreciative to have worked with you on this issue. I think your leaning issue is now resolved. This new forum has worked for you.

Blue X


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hello
Try a work boot shoe and a low cut dress shoe. As a experiment.
You can switch them either way. [ Later


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks, unk, but no.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Unk Bond said:


> Hello
> Try a work boot shoe and a low cut dress shoe. As a experiment.
> You can switch them either way. [ Later



====================

Hello All
Well if it worked.
You could have added a insole. To one of your shoes. [ Later


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

I appreciate the input, but I already wear insoles due to Achilles issues.


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## Ozzy17 (Jan 9, 2012)

Hey ride394, I usually don't post when I haven't read the whole thread so I apologize if this has already been suggested or you've already corrected the problem but I have to get going and I had kind of an off the wall thought about something that might help.

I'll start by saying I've never tried this nor do I think I've heard of anyone trying it. So take it or leave it, it won't hurt my feelings at all and it may not work at all even if you do try it.

What about throwing an insole in your forward shoe? I feel like lifting that foot slightly would force your hips to the rear and help align everything maybe with less conscious effort.

Just a thought good luck and shoot straight!


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## Ozzy17 (Jan 9, 2012)

Shoot sorry just saw the post above mine :/


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Just wanted to post an update. This is where I ended up after many conversations with Blue X. This is still a conscious effort in the setup to get me to this form, but I think I have the base to work off of for the rest of my shooting life.








Many thank, Blue!


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

:clap:

Looks great.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Dare I post the pic in general just for ****s and giggles? Lol


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

Good job man, its been a pleasure working with you. You have done everything I ask and listened with open ears and an open mind. You have come a long way in a short time. 

You have many years of good shooting ahead of you, now you just have to learn to repeat

:darkbeer: time to celebrate your form makeover! 

Blue X


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Already celebrating, buddy! Definitely going to work on the repeating part. One if these days I'll make my way down for some one on one coaching.


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## jwrigley (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi,
I'll admit to reading the OP and skimming through the rest of the thread so apologies if you have resolved your issue and judging from the before and after pictures it looks like you are well on your way.
If I read it right - you have no impediment to actually standing straight just a tendency to lean your weight on your left leg? 

I've found that a well centered athletic stance is crucial maintaining a correct 'T' position and thereby a good float pattern. I do also have a tendency to get a little lazy at times and slump somewhat and I'll share my remedy for when that happens with you.

Rather than going step by step with 'feet shoulder width, hip straight shoulders square etc..' I simply imagine myself (for example) standing as I would if I were on the top of an olympic podium and the national anthem were playing for me. Stand on the shooting line and imagine that or some similar scenario and you will automatically get the feeling of where your legs back and core should be. As you raise your bow arm and draw back and settle into anchor, check you are still in that "proud" position.

Hope this helps.
J


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks for the input jwrigly. What I've found to work best for me is to start out with all my weight over my front leg while I draw. Then as I'm coming to anchor I let my weight go back to my rear leg a little (I started this routine by actually having my rear heel off the ground completely during the draw). I end up with what I would guess to be about 60% of the weight on my front and 40% on the back. This significantly helps when it comes to bending at the waste for targets that are below my level sight line. This has also dramatically improved my float and shot execution. I'm really happy with where I am form wise, now I'm working on reprogramming my shot sequence from beginning to end and am expecting great results for the winter league this year.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

ride394 said:


> Thanks for the input jwrigly. What I've found to work best for me is to start out with all my weight over my front leg while I draw. Then as I'm coming to anchor I let my weight go back to my rear leg a little (I started this routine by actually having my rear heel off the ground completely during the draw). I end up with what I would guess to be about 60% of the weight on my front and 40% on the back. This significantly helps when it comes to bending at the waste for targets that are below my level sight line. This has also dramatically improved my float and shot execution. I'm really happy with where I am form wise, now I'm working on reprogramming my shot sequence from beginning to end and am expecting great results for the winter league this year.


You have learned well.

Now work hard, smart and efficient and show me that trophy!!

Blue X


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Yeah I'd say it's working out ok...

40yds








Damnit!


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## Mathewshunt1996 (Jul 14, 2012)

Tagged for later. Awesome thread


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Your last picture looks very good. 

I think that if you start shooting down hill where you have to lean forward the standing up straight will quickly become a habit when shooting on level ground.


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## KimberTac1911 (Feb 27, 2012)

I have used a yard stick in the past. Slide one end in your shoe/boot and the other in your belt. This really helped me to focus on my posture while shooting.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

Stick an arrow down the right hip and have it come up under your armpit. This will teach you to stand up straight if this is what you want. Weight distribution isn't the be all and end all. Comfort and repeatability is.


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