# K&K File For Bankruptcy



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

case number 11-20531-TLM....


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

I just hear the Army Cadance! "Here we go again! Same old Stuff Again!"


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

https://ecf.idb.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/PublicCalender.pl


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

The date should be 6/9/11


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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

Link doesn't work


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

The 2nd link doesnt???


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Still not working.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

https://ecf.idb.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/PublicCalendar.pl


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Third times a charm... :wink:


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

So now that i got the link to work... Just to clarify its Kevin and Katherine Strother. Filed 5/9/11. Case # 11-20531-TLM

And for the record i believe this info is valid and crucial for current and future K&K owners.

Jaben


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## traildust (Feb 17, 2011)

Man...that Kevin is a Super Human.....he hopped in his trasporter....traveled thru time and filed 30 days from now??????


Prayers for both


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Looks like the filled for an individual chapter 7. Not a business bankruptcy. This will allow them to reorganize there personal dept, but will not effect K&K archery dept.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

traildust said:


> Man...that Kevin is a Super Human.....he hopped in his trasporter....traveled thru time and filed 30 days from now??????


Whoops!! LOL... Hey its 6 in the morning... Im not all here...


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

vhunter said:


> Looks like the filled for an individual chapter 7. Not a business bankruptcy. This will allow them to reorganize there personal dept, but will not effect K&K archery dept.


Thanks for the clarification bud. Much appreciated. :clap:


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## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

vhunter said:


> Looks like the filled for an individual chapter 7. Not a business bankruptcy. This will allow them to reorganize there personal dept, but will not effect K&K archery dept.


That really depends- how have they been financing the "home" operation? If they have been establishing lines of credit in order to get manufacturing done, it very well could affect the business.

At any rate, that sucks. I hope things work out for them.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

DeepFried said:


> https://ecf.idb.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/PublicCalander.pl


No -- my life time -- warranty ?

My guess is these Tuning Issues are adding up.

Did they sell the reported (to make) 1500 bows?


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## brokenlittleman (Oct 18, 2006)

vhunter said:


> Looks like the filled for an individual chapter 7. Not a business bankruptcy. This will allow them to reorganize there personal dept, but will not effect K&K archery dept.


V, I know nothing about bankruptcy but since they own the company wouldn't it be an asset that a creditor could go after?


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

brokenlittleman said:


> V, I know nothing about bankruptcy but since they own the company wouldn't it be an asset that a creditor could go after?


This is why you never put anything in your real name, use trust /corp. (see the performer formally know as Prince)


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

10 pages withing 24 hours from now.....


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Here maybe this may help. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_7,_Title_11,_United_States_Code


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## BROX (Sep 29, 2005)

yeah close this thread!


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

vhunter said:


> Looks like the filled for an individual chapter 7. Not a business bankruptcy. This will allow them to reorganize there personal dept, but will not effect K&K archery dept.


You never, ever file for bankruptcy -- there is no debtors prisons -- bet they hired an ATTORNEY.

An ‘attorney’ is not a ‘lawyer,’ yet the average American improperly interchanges these words as if they represent the same 
occupation, and the average American attorney unduly accepts the honor to be called "lawyer" when he is not.

Attorney, from the word *"attorn"* is derived the name and occupation of an ‘attorney;’ one who transfers or assigns property, 
rights, title and allegiance *to the owner* of the land.

Although modern usage tends to group all these descriptive occupational words as the same, the fact is that they have different 
and distinctive meanings when used within the context of court activities:


Solicitor -- one who petitions (initiates) for another in a court

Counselor -- one who advises another concerning a court matter

Lawyer -- [see counselor] learned in the law to advise in a court

Barrister -- one who is privileged to plead at the bar

Advocate -- one who pleads within the bar for a defendant

*Attorney -- one who transfers or assigns, within the bar (that little swinging gate you walk through in the court room), 
another's rights and property acting on behalf of the ruling crown (government)*

It's very clear that an attorney is not a lawyer. The lawyer is a learned counselor who advises. *The ruling government appoints an 
attorney as one who transfers a tenant's rights*, allegiance, and title to the land owner (government).

Fire your BAR Attorney. Refuse to acknowledge their corrupt inner-bar courts of thievery. Formally charge them with the illegal act of 
practicing law without lawful authority. Why? A BAR Attorney is not a lawyer by lawful definition. *An Esquire is an officer of the State 
with the duty to carry out State activities, including "attornment."*

State officers have no constitutional authority to practice law as lawyers, barristers, advocates, or solicitors. Americans should begin 
formally charging these false lawyers with unlawfully practicing the profession of law since their BAR union licenses only give them the 
privilege to be Attorneys and Squires over asset transfers.


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## footindave (Jul 15, 2009)

x 2


BROX said:


> yeah close this thread!


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## KBacon (Nov 13, 2003)

In on page #1!!!!

Sorry to hear... but I hope for the best for them!!!


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

footindave said:


> x 2


Yeah, lets not learn anything.

So, do you think the price of subject matter bows are going to sink like a rock?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

:zip:


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## Dan Zawacki (Apr 17, 2010)

in b4 locked

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

SO glad I didn't go that route - the KS reputation is what kept me away.


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## crow_sniper (Aug 14, 2004)

:fear:


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## anon (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't understand why they would lock this thread.

If it's important factual information then shouldn't we know about it? Regardless, here's to hoping they can work through this.


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## BAArcher (Feb 5, 2004)

If it's business related and effects AT members, post it. If it is a personal issue for them, you are an EDITED for dragging their issues onto the AT General forum.


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## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

I hate to say anything but for some reason I am COMPLETELY unsurprised.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

anon said:


> I don't understand why they would lock this thread.
> 
> If it's important factual information then shouldn't we know about it? Regardless, here's to hoping they can work through this.


Agreed, there is plenty of Bow Making opportunity out there, and lets hope they push on and separate business from family.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I don't have one of their bows but I wish the best for them........


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

This is a shame although we know very little about the dealings and how K+K Archery will be effected. The negative press certainly hurts a new companies chances of survival. I was hoping these guy would make it and grow to become a player in the market.


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

This isn't about K&K archery. It's about Kate and Kevin, therefore I say it should be locked up. It's a personal problem.


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## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

That's why I only buy from established co. Took me a while before I would buy an Elite for the same reason.


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

vhunter said:


> This isn't about K&K archery. It's about Kate and Kevin, therefore I say it should be locked up. It's a personal problem.


Kevin and Kate own K&K Archery, reguardless of what you think or how much love you have for them; it does and will have an affect on thier Company. 
Too bad, the guy can design a bow that is for sure. I just wish he would stay put behind the design board......


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

vhunter said:


> This isn't about K&K archery. It's about Kate and Kevin, therefore I say it should be locked up. It's a personal problem.


It is about K&K. Even if it is a personal matter their personal finances reflect on how their business is perceived by the customer.


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## NorthernMN (Aug 19, 2005)

People and companies will succeed or fail on their merits. Lots of people and companies have failed in the last couple of years. It has been a tough stretch for lots of people. Millions have lots their homes. Plenty of well established business have gone under. Regardless of your opinion of KS it has got to be a tough deal to go through.


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## DocMort (Sep 24, 2009)

Look guys, the mods aren't going to close it if it stays civil so keep it civil and no personal attacks.. 


If in fact Kevin and Kate have the company in there personal names, without a trust or other corp to it it could very well affect the company.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Just for the record i had this cleared with a Mod before i started it. So i doubt it gets closed. I made sure and covered my bases....


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## DocMort (Sep 24, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> Just for the record i had this cleared with the Mods before i started it. So i doubt it gets closed.


Fried exactly what I am saying, it's nothing personal just plain letting the world know


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## tpcowfish (Aug 11, 2008)

Don't own one, but if i did, i would like to see this thread posted,


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## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

I hope the very best for them and I'm sad to see this happening to them.
Perhaps things will get better for them after this.

Kevin is one heck of a bow designer that has my respect.


Skeet.


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## Bear32 (Apr 24, 2008)

:happy1::usa:


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## elk ivory (Apr 8, 2007)

Probably to do with the recent $280,000 judgement against them,file chapter 7 and "POOF" it disappears!

But it also screws their personal credit rating for 7 to 10 years.


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

I don't care if Kevin became a priest and Kate went to Vegas to become an escort. If they are in business, the rest simply does not matter.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

BAArcher said:


> If it's business related and effects AT members, post it. If it is a personal issue for them, you are an EDITED for dragging their issues onto the AT General forum.


I completely agree!!


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## jamesbowman (Jan 29, 2006)

No it should not be a surpise considering the track record, yes I hope they get it straightened out for their lives sake as they are people and no one is an island to themselves , and yes I feel bad once again for those who bought their bows as I already have seen several on here for sale as they will take a horrible loss. The sad thing is I do believe the guy has a great gift in designing bows as I have owned several and now own some of his designs.


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## 2xR (Dec 11, 2007)

If I am not mistaken K&K Archery is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stingray Enterprises LLC. Since this is a Ch 7 bankruptcy (personal debt restructuring) very, very little chance if any at all this will impact Stingray or K&K ultimately. 

But it's good to see another thread for the haters to jump on. ***!!! Go shoot your bow of choice and stop the bashing...

Those of you with some compassion and empathy for them - I know it is appreciated...


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## bigpuddin43 (Mar 13, 2009)

2xR said:


> If I am not mistaken K&K Archery is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stingray Enterprises LLC. Since this is a Ch 7 bankruptcy (personal debt restructuring) very, very little chance if any at all this will impact Stingray or K&K ultimately.
> 
> But it's good to see another thread for the haters to jump on. ***!!! Go shoot your bow of choice and stop the bashing...
> 
> Those of you with some compassion and empathy for them - I know it is appreciated...


I have not seen any bashing yet just someone letting everyone know the facts. Maybe this person did not know that K&K was a subsidiary of Stingray. I have actually seen more people say they hope they make it through this and other supportive comments.


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

I wish Kevin and Kate the best of luck in all this for both their sake and for the customers. But I think it is pretty sad when people purposely go out of their way to dig up dirt like this....


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## hjort jagare (Nov 19, 2008)

Digging up Dirt, Bashing ?? I dont see it. What I see is a high profile TALENTED bow designer who with his wife stated another bow company. Many of his customers are buying these great bows sight unseen buying strictly off his reputation. Is it not feasible that a bankruptcy is relevant?? That said I wish them well and I hope K&K continues to make a great bow.


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

Hard to say all the facts. Maby they too such a loss losing strother archery that 1500 bows couldnt make up the debt they owed. Alot of people file bankruptcy. No big deal. They are people just like u and i. I hope the best for them and i would go buy a k&k boe right now if i had the cash. Mods. Let kevin back to explain himself. Everyone deserves a second chance


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

Bummer for kevin and Kate, bankrupcy is last resort

Good luck to them


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Take this thread how you want to... Fact is im extremely hopeful that Kevin and Kate make it through and design 1000's of bows in the future... This is an information sharing thread. Call me any name you want to. Its still just a post on a forum. Dont take it personally either way.


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## mathewshooterxt (Mar 2, 2009)

Out West said:


> I wish Kevin and Kate the best of luck in all this for both their sake and for the customers. But I think it is pretty sad when people purposely go out of their way to dig up dirt like this....


X2!! Some people have way too much free time!


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

backstrap steve said:


> Hard to say all the facts. Maby they too such a loss losing strother archery that 1500 bows couldnt make up the debt they owed. Alot of people file bankruptcy. No big deal. They are people just like u and i. Everyone deserves a second chance


I agree....


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## crow3k (Feb 15, 2011)

i couldn't begin to tell you how tired i am of hearing or seeing things on K&K i hope they are in a bad way and it keeps them from ever opening another bow company just so i don't have to hear about them any more


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## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

docmort said:


> fried exactly what i am saying, it's nothing personal just plain letting the world know


xx22!!!


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

crow3k said:


> i couldn't begin to tell you how tired i am of hearing or seeing things on K&K i hope they are in a bad way and it keeps them from ever opening another bow company just so i don't have to hear about them any more


Thats kinda harsh isnt it????


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## DocMort (Sep 24, 2009)

The worst people on here are the supporters or fan boys that are coming on here and supporting Kevin as most do on here so far. You the fan boys are the ones being very I wouldn't call it hostile but I wouldn't call it civil either. Grow up.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I wish I had their guts to go out and take a risk, hopefully they will come out guns a blazing and continue on building and selling.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Out West said:


> I wish Kevin and Kate the best of luck in all this for both their sake and for the customers. But I think it is pretty sad when people purposely go out of their way to dig up dirt like this....


X2 on that!
Some on here are always looking to "needle" K&K or the Strothers.
Go ahead and say your not digging up dirt or bashing.
But your taking every chance you get to poke at them with a 10 foot stick from a distance to purposly turn things into a circus.


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

Hopefully they will continue to make fine products.


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## locusthill1831 (Apr 3, 2010)

I don't know anything about Matt McPherson or Pete Shipley's personal lives, and couldn't care less -- they make great bows.
Kevin makes a great bow, and I bought one. I don't care if he hides the Taliban, or files for Chapter 7.
I have, and will continue to shoot what fits me and performs well.


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

I wish them well and success in their future ventures

Not gonna even ask why this was posted to begin with


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

Personal bankrupcy is a last resort. I HOPE an attorney didn't talk them into it. 
Under the new laws if you have a combined income of $50,000.00(if I remember right) or more you must payoff your creditors through the court repayment plan.
The bankrupcy will cause credit lines to close to the person filing. It MAY affect K&K's ability to do business with vendors.
I wish them the best, and the owners of K&K bows.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Kinda hard to respect anyone who racks up debt and declares bankruptcy so they don't have to fulfill their agreement to pay that money back. And yes, this could have an effect on the business if they can't get a line of business credit to order parts and such.


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## nnelzon23 (Mar 19, 2011)

"Kinda hard to respect anyone who racks up debt and declares bankruptcy so they don't have to fulfill their agreement to pay that money back. And yes, this could have an effect on the business if they can't get a line of business credit to order parts and such."



Thank You...Exactly my thoughts. Its one thing to buy their bows, but now we will be buying out their debt!


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## crooked stick (Jul 1, 2006)

nnelzon23 said:


> "Kinda hard to respect anyone who racks up debt and declares bankruptcy so they don't have to fulfill their agreement to pay that money back. And yes, this could have an effect on the business if they can't get a line of business credit to order parts and such."
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You...Exactly my thoughts. Its one thing to buy their bows,* but now we will be buying out their debt*!



You're buying out everyone's debt! It's called the government taking taxes from your check and handing it to your neighbor to buy out their mortgage!


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## Maybee-R (May 15, 2006)

Food for thought. GM filed bankruptcy and K mart helped them out. remember the K car?
Then K mart filed one of if not the biggest bankruptcy's ever. Oh and they are still in business believe it or not. 

I dont Hold any grief towards someone for bankruptcy, Its not good but in some situations it regrettably UN-avoidable. I wish them the best. And as far as 7-10 years for credit? I bet they get offers to rebuild their credit the same day as filed. maybe the next.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

crow3k said:


> i couldn't begin to tell you how tired i am of hearing or seeing things on K&K i hope they are in a bad way and it keeps them from ever opening another bow company just so i don't have to hear about them any more


Wow!!! One of the meanest, coldhearted things I've read on AT. Wishing something bad on people you don't even know because your tired of hearing about them.

Forgive them for being such a burden to you....sheesh. Just goes to show you what kind of people lurk on these boards. You have good hearted nice kind folk. Then you have the opposite (Crow3k).

Hope everything works out for K&K. If it doesn't, at least they tried. I will say that they make a great bow. I love my Vengeance.


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## nnelzon23 (Mar 19, 2011)

Crooked stick,
Dont know if youre agreeing or arguing against my comment, but you are saying the same thing. If you pay taxes you are involved in the "we". I have no problem helping out a neighbor, but if my neighbor is living well beyond their means Id like the chance to say something before handing them my money. Maybe they should ask their neighbors to bail them out.


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## CRISSMAN6903 (Mar 11, 2011)

crow3k said:


> i couldn't begin to tell you how tired i am of hearing or seeing things on K&K i hope they are in a bad way and it keeps them from ever opening another bow company just so i don't have to hear about them any more


Wow that's not very nice. If you don't want to hear about them then it's your choice to ignore this thread all together. But for many of us with money invested in their bows we would. So next time just pass to the next thread and bam, problem solved. I wish them luck.


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## freddyd (Jan 26, 2009)

Unfortunate. With the "perceived" negative history, current difficulties future endeavors and investors will have a difficult time trusting the couple. I wonder if he has any stake in the other companies he fathered? Maybe he is getting income from Elite (unlikely), or Strother?


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

optimal_max said:


> Kinda hard to respect anyone who racks up debt and declares bankruptcy so they don't have to fulfill their agreement to pay that money back. And yes, this could have an effect on the business if they can't get a line of business credit to order parts and such.





nnelzon23 said:


> Crooked stick,
> Dont know if youre agreeing or arguing against my comment, but you are saying the same thing. If you pay taxes you are involved in the "we". I have no problem helping out a neighbor, but if my neighbor is living well beyond their means Id like the chance to say something before handing them my money. Maybe they should ask their neighbors to bail them out.


Well said! 

Personally, I just find it amazing that here on AT, where the *average* person is very conservative, they would continue to fawn over this bow designer after all he's been involved in. On a forum where the slightest chip in a paint job will morph into a discussion on when said company will go out of business for their so called lack of QA, you'd think that this would be MUCH more important to archers helping archers. If I was newer to archery and hadn't followed the soap opera about these two...and I was considering one of their bows, I would surely want to see what is considered public knowledge. Hate the OP all you want, but this is VERY relevant to archery!

Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me...fool me thrice, shame on me...fool me four times, shame on me...fool me five times, shame on me...etc.


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Do either of you know *ANYONE* that has filed bankruptcy, defaulted/walked away from their mortgage, quit paying their car payment, cheated their car and home insurance....among the laundry list of things out there. I'm not sure if this is news to either of you, but we all pay for everyone who does this! Companies don't, we do. You better start a list of those who you can't respect, but once you start looking around you.....that list is gonna get pretty long, pretty quick. LOL





optimal_max said:


> Kinda hard to respect anyone who racks up debt and declares bankruptcy so they don't have to fulfill their agreement to pay that money back. And yes, this could have an effect on the business if they can't get a line of business credit to order parts and such.





nnelzon23 said:


> "Kinda hard to respect anyone who racks up debt and declares bankruptcy so they don't have to fulfill their agreement to pay that money back. And yes, this could have an effect on the business if they can't get a line of business credit to order parts and such."
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You...Exactly my thoughts. Its one thing to buy their bows, but now we will be buying out their debt!


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

I dont have a dog in the fight, but I would say the title to this post is slightly misleading at best, as it is a personal bankruptcy issue and not a filing of K and K


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

1955 said:


> Personally, I just find it amazing that here on AT, where the *average* person is very conservative, they would continue to fawn over this bow designer after all he's been involved in. On a forum where the slightest chip in a paint job will morph into a discussion on when said company will go out of business for their so called lack of QA, you'd think that this would be MUCH more important to archers helping archers. If I was newer to archery and hadn't followed the soap opera about these two...and I was considering one of their bows, I would surely want to see what is considered public knowledge. Hate the OP all you want, but this is VERY relevant to archery!
> 
> Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me...fool me thrice, shame on me...fool me four times, shame on me...fool me five times, shame on me...etc.


I agree, but I really believe that people on here really think that AT is a big deal and what happens here *IS* gospel. Which to anyone with half a brain and $1 in their pocket would know better. With the internet, it's that much worse and people apparently have plenty of time on their hands to read and then speculate. Which is fine with me, who cares really. But it's where people take things personally and then get chippy about it is when it all goes south.

People on here *NEED DRAMA* or their day would not be complete. LOL


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

IF I owned one of their bows, I would also be desperate to have them do well. After all, if I just spent a (to many of us) large sum of money on a brand new bow...it would surely make me sick to my stomach to find out that they might not be around to cover their "lifetime" warranty. It would in essence make my NEW bow, a used niche bow without any warranty...not exactly what I payed for. I believe that everyone that bought into this company, is secretly very worried about its future, but just like the politician in the face of a scandal, they would put forth a brave face.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Maybee-R said:


> Food for thought. GM filed bankruptcy and K mart helped them out. remember the K car?
> Then K mart filed one of if not the biggest bankruptcy's ever. Oh and they are still in business believe it or not.
> 
> I dont Hold any grief towards someone for bankruptcy, Its not good but in some situations it regrettably UN-avoidable. I wish them the best. And as far as 7-10 years for credit? I bet they get offers to rebuild their credit the same day as filed. maybe the next.


It worked out brilliantly. It was a great idea to get Plymouth to build that turd and put them in the crapper all the while propping up GM. :dontknow:


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## Beaver (May 25, 2005)

locusthill1831 said:


> I don't know anything about Matt McPherson or Pete Shipley's personal lives, and couldn't care less -- they make great bows.
> Kevin makes a great bow, and I bought one. I don't care if he hides the Taliban, or files for Chapter 7.
> I have, and will continue to shoot what fits me and performs well.


Really, the Taliban!


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

locusthill1831 said:


> I don't know anything about Matt McPherson or Pete Shipley's personal lives, and couldn't care less -- they make great bows.
> Kevin makes a great bow, and I bought one. *I don't care if he hides the Taliban*, or files for Chapter 7.
> I have, and will continue to shoot what fits me and performs well.





Beaver said:


> Really, the Taliban!


Why would this surprise you...


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm amazed at the people who line up to dig K&K's grave. It's sad...

It seems like not only will they did the grave, they'll wait in line all day for a shovel to do it.


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## 0zarks2 (Feb 9, 2007)

1955 said:


> Why would this surprise you...


No doubt....it'd be par for the course....lol.


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## jamesbowman (Jan 29, 2006)

Believe me if Matt Mathews had filed bankruptcy if would be a big deal on here, or Pete Sheply or many others. It is buisness and we are dealing with a person who sold bows and adverstised on here which many people on here bought pig in the poke style sight unseen. To say it is not relevant is crazy, it is relevant because many people one here have bought these bows and would like to know the stability of a company who also sold additional warranties with the bows. If you adverstise on here you have set yourself up on here to be scrutinized. Let's face the facts and I have only seen a few negative remarks which I consider amazing considering past history of the man and the short lived stints of the companies he has been with.


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## DJO (Dec 5, 2008)

Beaver said:


> Really, the Taliban!


I read this early in the thread and passed on to the next post, but seeing it 2X..........really, the Taliban.


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## COATED (Jun 3, 2009)

CdBurner said:


> I'm amazed at the people who line up to dig K&K's grave. It's sad...
> 
> It seems like not only will they did the grave, they'll wait in line all day for a shovel to do it.


Yep...was thinkin the same thing....


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

CdBurner said:


> I'm amazed at the people who line up to dig K&K's grave. It's sad...
> 
> It seems like not only will they did the grave, they'll wait in line all day for a shovel to do it.


What do you care what others think? It's people like you that try to take those rights away. 

PS...I know we have no "rights" here on a privately owned forum. But in that vain, I have as much "right" to voice my opinion as you. If it pisses you off...so be it.


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## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

CdBurner said:


> I'm amazed at the people who line up to dig K&K's grave. It's sad...
> 
> It seems like not only will they did the grave, they'll wait in line all day for a shovel to do it.


What is it with you k&K guys, nobody gives a crap about them as much as you want them to. If this was Mathews, Hoyt, Elite, PSE, any other bow company people would be doing the same thing they are doing right now on this thread. You guys make everything personal and take everything so personal.


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## South Man (Jul 12, 2008)

Wish the best for them and hope it doesnt affect the bow sales and warranty!


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

I guess I been living in a shell my whole Army career.....
If a person (ANYONE) is sued and has to pay XXXXX amount of dollars, they file Chapter 7 and it all goes away? 
Is this a common practice? 
Maybe this is why our country (Not inplying K&K) is in a hole........gotta love Integrity.


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## blakeman (Dec 7, 2006)

Who gives a rat's butt, Its their bussiness, No one else's


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

If we gave as much attention to our national debt, let alone Kate and Kevin's debt's we might be able to turn this nation around geesh


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## Archway Hunter (Mar 21, 2011)

K&K Archery LLC is exactly what LLC implies....limited liability corporation. To me, it sounds like the Strother family has run into a string of bad luck and I hope the best for them. There are many of us out there right now that have fallen on hard times. Chapter 7 will allow the Strother's to restructure their debt and move on with their lives without losing their home in the process. Lastly, it is a very difficult time to start a new business and it takes a lot of guts to lay everything on the line to try and succeed now days. Let's keep the support up and our comments positive. No need to drag a family's personal lives through the mud, I would like to think we are better than that. If this was actually about K&K archery, flame on. But alas, it is not.


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## traildust (Feb 17, 2011)

*Copied from another website*

Quoted by Kevin

There is a thread on AT titled K&K Bankrupt, this is a false and misleading title. Kate and I had to file Chapter 7, this in NO WAY affects K&K Archery LLC.

This is a personal matter that will not change any aspect of business, warranty, parts, or any other component of K&K Archery LLC.

Your bow is still covered under warranty, your bow will still ship if it's on order and K&K will stay in business for a long time.


*Nothing to see here folks...let move along now 

FTR...I dont know Kevin, dont shoot a K&K bow....but I know there is alway 2 sides to every story.....I like a little competition rivalry, but leave folks personal lives off the public forum...jmho*


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

Exactly my concern for K&K Archery and why I would be hesitant to buy one of the bows. I personally would take a wait and see approach. The last thing you want to do is buy a bow and then have the company disappear in a year or two.

There is something to see.......search for integrity.


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## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

1955 said:


> Well said!
> 
> Personally, I just find it amazing that here on AT, where the *average* person is very conservative, they would continue to fawn over this bow designer after all he's been involved in. On a forum where the slightest chip in a paint job will morph into a discussion on when said company will go out of business for their so called lack of QA, you'd think that this would be MUCH more important to archers helping archers. If I was newer to archery and hadn't followed the soap opera about these two...and I was considering one of their bows, I would surely want to see what is considered public knowledge. Hate the OP all you want, but this is VERY relevant to archery!
> 
> Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me...fool me thrice, shame on me...fool me four times, shame on me...fool me five times, shame on me...etc.


I bought 2 new bows within the last 8 months and based SOLELY on the track record of them, I wanted NOTHING to do with a K&K. Reading this thread, man I'm glad I went with that decision. For all of you defending the guy, have at it, but I'll call a spade a spade and say that based on his stellar business record of the last......oh 5 or so years, he's got a few issues that me personally I won't give one, not one dime of my hard earned, sweat off my brow, money. I also won't sit here and say "well good luck with all your future business endeavors" or any such other rhetoric. There are plenty of people I've never met that based solely on there moral merits I don't care for, so why should I think any differently of these two? Have I met them? Nope. Do I have a preconceived notion of them? Yep.


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

Archway Hunter said:


> K&K Archery LLC is exactly what LLC implies....limited liability corporation. To me, it sounds like the Strother family has run into a string of bad luck and I hope the best for them. There are many of us out there right now that have fallen on hard times. Lastly, it is a very difficult time to start a new business and *it takes a lot of guts to lay everything on the line* to try and succeed now days. Let's keep the support up and our comments positive. No need to drag a family's personal lives through the mud, I would like to think we are better than that. If this was actually about K&K archery, flame on. But alas, it is not.


They lay NOTHING on the line...they lay other people's "something" on the line and then go bankrupt. This thread is ALL about K&K Archery.


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

Archway Hunter said:


> K&K Archery LLC is exactly what LLC implies....limited liability corporation. To me, it sounds like the Strother family has run into a *string of bad luck* and I hope the best for them. There are many of us out there right now that have fallen on hard times. Chapter 7 will allow the Strother's to r*estructure their debt and move on with their lives* without losing their home in the process. Lastly, it is a very difficult time to start a new business and it takes a lot of guts to lay everything on the line to try and succeed now days. Let's keep the support up and our comments positive. No need to drag a family's personal lives through the mud, I would like to think we are better than that. If this was actually about K&K archery, flame on. But alas, it is not.



Poor business decisions is not the same as bad luck. And you can call it "restructuring their debt", but unless they intend to pay off the full amount, it is reneging on a deal and breaking their word to pay off what they owe. Is this the kind of business practice that deserves support?


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

traildust said:


> *Copied from another website*
> 
> Quoted by Kevin
> 
> ...


But you do shoot a Strother's bow.

What do you expect him to say???


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## traildust (Feb 17, 2011)

SA has broken all ties with Kevin......he was long gone before I ordered my SX-1 :shade:


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## nnelzon23 (Mar 19, 2011)

Its getting good now!


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

This will affect K&K bow sales and bis. and so be it and it will go bankrupted at some point soon and it will all tie end together at some point.


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

CdBurner said:


> Do you believe the turds which you spew? I could care less what you think or say on this or ANY matter. Say what you want. I couldn't care less.


I belive in what 1955 so call spews.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

If any of you are suprised about this that is simply amazing. Taking a stab at how these two operate I doubt their filing bankruptcy because their flat broke their probably filing this to screw someone else out of money that they owe them. Bonnie and Clyde continue......


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

IrishMike said:


> If any of you are suprised about this that is simply amazing. Taking a stab at how these two operate I doubt their filing bankruptcy because their flat broke their probably filing this to screw someone else out of money that owe them. Bonnie and Clyde


that is what usually what happens and it causes a chain reaction for other bis. to loose and go under at times.


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

CdBurner said:


> Do you believe the turds which you spew? I could care less what you think or say on this or ANY matter. Say what you want. I couldn't care less.


It's simple really, don't read or post in the thread you find so alarming; as not looking on the thread or pretend it doesn't exist. 
You can go back to the AA forum and leg hump all you want over there.......no need to get anyones panties all bunched up over someones thoughts or views that you do not like.


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## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

i see a new tv show- who the bleep did i buy a bow from
sorry couldnt help it, here is a question. would you be singing their praises if someone filed on you?


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

1955 said:


> What do you care what others think? It's people like you that try to take those rights away.
> 
> PS...I know we have no "rights" here on a privately owned forum. But in that vain, I have as much "right" to voice my opinion as you. If it pisses you off...so be it.


I could have posted several lines of text but 1955 summed it up nicely. Ill post more when im off work....


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

traildust said:


> *Copied from another website*
> 
> Quoted by Kevin
> 
> ...


I bet he(and you) wishes it were that easy but its not. He can post whatever he wants on that forum. The discussion is here on AT.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

mdewitt71 said:


> It's simple really, don't read or post in the thread you find so alarming; as not looking on the thread or pretend it doesn't exist.
> You can go back to the AA forum and leg hump all you want over there.......no need to get anyones panties all bunched up over someones thoughts or views that you do not like.


Well said....


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## houseofpain44 (Feb 2, 2008)

this thread has gotten a little out of hand


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

Aren't they big AT posters? The owners that is?


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Feel better now? lol Did you say all of this thinking there was anyone other than yourself that cares where you spend your hard earned..sweat off my brow $$. LOL!! 




huntin_addict said:


> I bought 2 new bows within the last 8 months and based SOLELY on the track record of them, I wanted NOTHING to do with a K&K. Reading this thread, man I'm glad I went with that decision. For all of you defending the guy, have at it, but I'll call a spade a spade and say that based on his stellar business record of the last......oh 5 or so years, he's got a few issues that me personally I won't give one, not one dime of my hard earned, sweat off my brow, money. I also won't sit here and say "well good luck with all your future business endeavors" or any such other rhetoric. There are plenty of people I've never met that based solely on there moral merits I don't care for, so why should I think any differently of these two? Have I met them? Nope. Do I have a preconceived notion of them? Yep.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

For the record. I'm not a K&K supporter. I also am not going to "dig their grave". I only had an issue when 1955 said I'm the person who keep people from being able speak freely. I'm the one taking his rights away. Which is hardly the case. 

Now back to the lynching...


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## elk ivory (Apr 8, 2007)

Like I posted earlier,just guessing,but this personal bankruptcy was filed on the heels of the investor lawsuit that was won by the investor a few months ago for what was reported to be over a quarter million dollars.
Happens all the time,if it goes their way the investors judgement & award goes to"$0.00" collected and the Strothers walk away paying nothing.
Is it fair? Is it a sign of integrity? Everybody has an opinion.


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## traildust (Feb 17, 2011)

I couldnt care either way......I never knew who he was until he had already left SA and started this other company.

Just think airing dirty laudry without knowing the facts is uncalled for.


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## Archway Hunter (Mar 21, 2011)

elk ivory said:


> Like I posted earlier,just guessing,but this personal bankruptcy was filed on the heels of the investor lawsuit that was won by the investor a few months ago for what was reported to be over a quarter million dollars.
> Happens all the time,if it goes their way the investors judgement & award goes to"$0.00" collected and the Strothers walk away paying nothing.
> Is it fair? Is it a sign of integrity? Everybody has an opinion.


I agree with your assessment. I would like to add that many people start with a petition for Chapter 7, and if that petition is declined, they file for Chapter 13. Chapter 7 will make most of your personal debts disappear. Chapter 13 will restructure your debt over 5 years with no interest. A lot of people successfully file Chapter 7, but given the relative success of the Strother's, they may wind up with a Chapter 13. If I had a quarter million dollar judgement awarded against me and my family, I would file for Chapter 7 too. That is a large chunk of change for any family to swallow...and the Strother's ain't that rich.


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

All I know is God forbid any of you ever have any bad luck or fall on hard times.....


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

i have no dog in this fight, never even owned ANY bow he designed, but some of you people posting things that can be or are in fact detrimental to the strothers livelyhood is very, very classless. Deliberately making comments that would most certainly affect the man's finances is uncalled for. Small companies have very little budget to get their name out there, and all this bashing, and the like is not gonna do anything but hurt this company. How would you like it if it was you being dragged through the mud, and you lost your job or company because of a bunch of 3 yr olds? Some of the hypocrisy in this thread is disgracefull.


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

K&K have been getting there name out just fine.


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## lovetohunt93 (Aug 3, 2010)

page 5, im on page 5!

I hope everything works out for K&K! :darkbeer:


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## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

Out West said:


> All I know is God forbid any of you ever have any bad luck or fall on hard times.....


tread lightly my friend, you do not know everyones life story


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## 2xR (Dec 11, 2007)

2xR said:


> If I am not mistaken K&K Archery is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stingray Enterprises LLC. Since this is a Ch 7 bankruptcy (personal debt restructuring) very, very little chance if any at all this will impact Stingray or K&K ultimately.
> 
> But it's good to see another thread for the haters to jump on. ***!!! Go shoot your bow of choice and stop the bashing...
> 
> Those of you with some compassion and empathy for them - I know it is appreciated...


That's what I figured...


Quoted by Kevin

There is a thread on AT titled K&K Bankrupt, this is a false and misleading title. Kate and I had to file Chapter 7, this in NO WAY affects K&K Archery LLC.

This is a personal matter that will not change any aspect of business, warranty, parts, or any other component of K&K Archery LLC.

Your bow is still covered under warranty, your bow will still ship if it's on order and K&K will stay in business for a long time.[/B][/QUOTE]




wellingtontx said:


> Exactly my concern for K&K Archery and why I would be hesitant to buy one of the bows. I personally would take a wait and see approach. The last thing you want to do is buy a bow and then have the company disappear in a year or two...



Yeah - because all of us know those "other company's" honor their warranty's without issue or question right - WHATEVER


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## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

Out West said:


> All I know is God forbid any of you ever have any bad luck or fall on hard times.....


Everybody has hard times, but it hink what Mr. Strother does is a liitle bit different than hard times.


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## IA Monsterbuck (Jul 18, 2006)

I don't think it's any secret at this point, great bow designer but less than great business man. I just hope that somebody is there to pick up the pieces and keep the company going if/when Kevin moves on. I own two of Kevin's Elite creations and I was nervous when he left Elite but the new owners have done an excellent job and offer the best warranty in the business. I only hope that Strother and K&K customers have the same luck.


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

IrishMike said:


> If any of you are suprised about this that is simply amazing. Taking a stab at how these two operate I doubt their filing bankruptcy because their flat broke their probably filing this to screw someone else out of money that they owe them. Bonnie and Clyde continue......


Did they ever pay that other Judgment that was taken against them for approx $250,000 or is this there procedural move not to pay that Judgement ?


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

2xR said:


> Yeah - because all of us know those "other company's" honor their warranty's without issue or question right - WHATEVER


Hard to even have a potential warranty claim when the company is no longer in business.....


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

toddsurfs said:


> tread lightly my friend, you do not know everyones life story


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## paarchhntr (Dec 21, 2005)

Geesh, I hope my life does not reach such a low point that I have to lurk the internet to find dirty laundry on people then bring it to a public forum.

Please, Its time to step away from your computer and get a real life, not an internet life.

Best of luck to K&K and I hope you have many good years to come.


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## nnelzon23 (Mar 19, 2011)

Are you not on the internet as well?


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

Are K&K and Ross archery related.


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

paarchhntr said:


> Geesh, I hope my life does not reach such a low point that I have to lurk the internet to find dirty laundry on people then bring it to a public forum.
> 
> Please, Its time to step away from your computer and get a real life, not an internet life.
> 
> Best of luck to K&K and I hope you have many good years to come.


Amen........


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

Maybee-R said:


> Food for thought. GM filed bankruptcy and K mart helped them out. remember the K car?
> Then K mart filed one of if not the biggest bankruptcy's ever. Oh and they are still in business believe it or not.
> 
> I dont Hold any grief towards someone for bankruptcy, Its not good but in some situations it regrettably UN-avoidable. I wish them the best. And as far as 7-10 years for credit? I bet they get offers to rebuild their credit the same day as filed. maybe the next.


K-cars were Chrysler product. And "K" had nothing to do with K-Mart! :lol: It was about a specific part of the cars' design, not a retail store. But, yes, Chrysler is still in business (at our cost).


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## AmishArcher (Feb 6, 2008)

they make darn good bows, no one is denying that. But there's more drama in Strother's land than on the Jersey Shore.

I don't know the dude, but his track record for designing bows is stellar, and his track record for financial dealings and the ability to stick with something long term... ehhhh, not so much.

Hope he comes out on the other side. There's life after bankruptcy, but you don't see this much drama coming from 1 designer anywhere else in the industry. That's why its newsworthy.


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## badbow148 (Dec 5, 2006)

Thanks Buster of Xs for getting that straight. LOL


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## optimal_max (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm just glad I can still count on Andy Ross.


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## AmishArcher (Feb 6, 2008)

IA Monsterbuck said:


> I don't think it's any secret at this point, great bow designer but less than great business man. I just hope that somebody is there to pick up the pieces and keep the company going if/when Kevin moves on. I own two of Kevin's Elite creations and I was nervous when he left Elite but the new owners have done an excellent job and offer the best warranty in the business. I only hope that Strother and K&K customers have the same luck.



+1, i have my elite bow too. and the new ownership has done a great job. 

well stated post


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## hjort jagare (Nov 19, 2008)

Relax guys. If you want a K&K order one if the news scares you dont.


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

AmishArcher said:


> But there's more drama in Strother's land than on the Jersey Shore.


 
Incorrect. There's more drama on AT than there *EVER* has been. People need it to live their daily life.....they need to have a place to air their concerns and what they think someone else wants to hear or they could not go on. If they could, they would pass by threads such as this one. But they can't.


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## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

Its sad what this thread has turned into. I hope k and k pulls through. Sad but its very reminicent to what happened when Ross took its downward spiral.


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## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

Stump Shooter said:


> Feel better now? lol Did you say all of this thinking there was anyone other than yourself that cares where you spend your hard earned..sweat off my brow $$. LOL!!


Sure do. Maybe no one does care, but let me explain it so you understand. Glad I wasn't dumb enough to purchase his product. Sounds like maybe you bowed down at the feet of KS. There are plenty who share my opinion.



Out West said:


> All I know is God forbid any of you ever have any bad luck or fall on hard times.....


Yeah, they look like they've fallen on some real tough times on their youtube videos, rolling in their "budget conscious" Hummer..........


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## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

Trust me. They have no idea what real hard times are! 

I thought I was the only one rememberin the nice house and hummer lol! 
Still like to see competitive bows stick around to give people options.


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## happyhunter62 (Dec 31, 2010)

Out West said:


> All I know is God forbid any of you ever have any bad luck or fall on hard times.....


EXACTLY!!! how many other companys out there has had hard times?


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## AmishArcher (Feb 6, 2008)

Stump Shooter said:


> Incorrect. There's more drama on AT than there *EVER* has been. People need it to live their daily life.....they need to have a place to air their concerns and what they think someone else wants to hear or they could not go on. If they could, they would pass by threads such as this one. But they can't.


you're probably right there. But buying a bow is an investment in a company. Same as buying a car. you're making the stock go up. If a company is privately held, and money is borrowed on the business, where do you think the collateral comes from? I just started a business. They put a lien on my house until i repay it, wasn't a huge amount, but still, its there. if my business fails, I, personally, still have to repay it. If I don't, they will get their $$$ from equity in my home.

an LLC protects you from lawsuits that come from the business. However, and i'm not sure here, but if Kevin had a judgement against HIM for breach of contract, it'd be on his personal side of things. So if they take everything there, there's no colatteral for the K&K LLC side of things which could gut his business. That'd make all the K&K bows worthless on warranty work, and there'd be no business behind it.

So filing bankruptcy would make him lose his personal assets, which are in all likelihood standing good for money borrowed on his business assets, which could very possibly cause his business to fold. So this is VERY relevant, and anyone who had this information and didn't bring it to the surface would negligent of full disclosure, IMO.


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

I just got a K&K Vindicator and its seems to be a fine bow. Im not worried in the least because even with all the hate on AT if I decide to move this bow there will be someone ready to snatch it up, or trade me for another high end bow. Its a win/win situation just like Charlie Sheen would say! Im a winner!!


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

CHAMPION2 said:


> I just got a K&K Vindicator and its seems to be a fine bow. Im not worried in the least because even with all the hate on AT if I decide to move this bow there will be someone ready to snatch it up, or trade me for another high end bow. Its a win/win situation just like Charlie Sheen would say! Im a winner!!


Ditto....


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

jamesbowman said:


> Believe me if Matt Mathews had filed bankruptcy if would be a big deal on here, or Pete Sheply or many others. It is buisness and we are dealing with a person who sold bows and adverstised on here which many people on here bought pig in the poke style sight unseen. To say it is not relevant is crazy, it is relevant because many people one here have bought these bows and would like to know the stability of a company who also sold additional warranties with the bows. If you adverstise on here you have set yourself up on here to be scrutinized. Let's face the facts and I have only seen a few negative remarks which I consider amazing considering past history of the man and the short lived stints of the companies he has been with.



Who is Matt Mathews?


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Out West said:


>


What are you so confused about??? Its more than a valid point. What dont you get?? Everyone experiences hard times/bad luck. Is that hard for you to comprehend???


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

stixshooter said:


> Who is Matt Mathews?


Hahahahahahahahahahahahah. That will lighten up the mood of this thread


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## 117149 (Nov 21, 2008)

stixshooter said:


> Who is Matt Mathews?


 google it and you will laugh your butt off!


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## blmarlin (Jul 25, 2008)

Out West said:


> All I know is God forbid any of you ever have any bad luck or fall on hard times.....


Amen.


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## FCFCharlie (Mar 18, 2010)

stixshooter said:


> Who is Matt Mathews?


I think he's related to Pherson McPherson, Terry Tartin and Pete Peply. Who, if I'm not mistaken, are all distantly related to Magnus VonMagnuson, who, was the Worlds Strongest man for many many years. Though to be fair, people like Phil Pfister and Mariusz Pudzianowski have moved toward center stage in recent years... All this is not in any way to take away from the greatness of Matt Mathews, Terry Tartin and Pete Peply.

That's all I have to say about that.


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## THE BULL (Feb 24, 2009)

just glad I didnt buy a K & K...All my buddies are selling theirs now...LOL...I tried to warn them..


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Just for the record some have had an oppurtunity to see Kevins true nature come out. Anyone remember the guy that got booted from the Strother forum for posting the speeds of his Elite Judge?? Well i sure do... It was me... What about my friend that sent his Inspire to Kevin to be tuned and then got it back in the same exact condition??? His name is Jamie and he shoots a Hoyt now... Kevins dealings have lead to all this. 

Anyone hear the one about Kevin sueing me for slander and defamation of character?? Bet you didnt! Not just me but L Train from the Elite Forum and AT as well... I still have the PMs from him on AA.... This was a few weeks back.


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## huntnfishnut (Jan 12, 2011)

FCFCharlie said:


> I think he's related to Pherson McPherson, Terry Tartin and Pete Peply. Who, if I'm not mistaken, are all distantly related to Magnus VonMagnuson, who, was the Worlds Strongest man for many many years. Though to be fair, people like Phil Pfister and Mariusz Pudzianowski have moved toward center stage in recent years...


Actually Mariusz Pudzianowski retired in 2009. Just watched his last competition on ESPN on Sat as they had 2010 on right after that... One ripped man


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## TOOL (Apr 11, 2006)

There sure is a lot of defensiveness and personal interest on this thread. It's still interesting news though(at least to me). I really don't know much about bankruptcy and the likes. I understand it is separate from the business but does this affect his ability to get creditors for the business? 

I think for the most part, many of those that purchased K&K bows were not concerned about resale or long term investment in their product. I've bought bows from companies that had gone through bankruptcy. I didn't care. I just wanted the bow.

I'm not sure that I buy into the "bad luck" "hard times" comments. Their videos seem to indicate otherwise (Hummers and all). Too bad about the investor that will probably be shafted out of 1/4 million now. That's who I would feel more sympathy for. Good luck to everyone (vendors etc.) getting all that they are owed in a timely manner. 

It's just an internet forum guys. No one has kicked your dog. Try not beat each other up too much.:wink:


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Well then there you have it. Clear motivation for you to do what your doing and then some...........




DeepFried said:


> Just for the record some have had an oppurtunity to see Kevins true nature come out. Anyone remember the guy that got booted from the Strother forum for posting the speeds of his Elite Judge?? Well i sure do... It was me... What about my friend that sent his Inspire to Kevin to be tuned and then got it back in the same exact condition??? His name is Jamie and he shoots a Hoyt now... Kevins dealings have lead to all this.
> 
> Anyone hear the one about Kevin sueing me for slander and defamation of character?? Bet you didnt! Not just me but L Train from the Elite Forum and AT as well... I still have the PMs from him on AA.... This was a few weeks back.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

THE BULL said:


> just glad I didnt buy a K & K...All my buddies are selling theirs now...LOL...I tried to warn them..


WTH? Either I'm not your buddy or you forgot to tell me. I'll forgive you. You just want to keep pounding me at 3d! LOL.


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

FCFCharlie said:


> I think he's related to Pherson McPherson, Terry Tartin and Pete Peply. Who, if I'm not mistaken, are all distantly related to Magnus VonMagnuson, who, was the Worlds Strongest man for many many years. Though to be fair, people like Phil Pfister and Mariusz Pudzianowski have moved toward center stage in recent years... All this is not in any way to take away from the greatness of Matt Mathews, Terry Tartin and Pete Peply.
> 
> That's all I have to say about that.



Ok that's what I thought ...LOL


----------



## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

DeepFried said:


> What are you so confused about??? Its more than a valid point. What dont you get?? Everyone experiences hard times/bad luck. Is that hard for you to comprehend???


For your information, I don't get what he is intending here by these comments towards mine "tread lightly my friend, you do not know everyones life story". Yes, I don't know everybody's life story. Just like we don't know all the intimate details of "EVERYTHING" in Kevin and Kate's life. So I was basically saying why don't the haters back off of Kevin and Kate and cut them some slack.... because we would all hate to have bad luck or hard times befall any of us....


----------



## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

THE BULL said:


> just glad I didnt buy a K & K...All my buddies are selling theirs now...LOL...I tried to warn them..


Have your buddies PM me, I very well may be interested in buying some more K&K bows!


----------



## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

You might ask yourselves how it would go if you lost your job.. Got sued a few times and didn't get paid for one reason or another for something you thought you had coming ... How long could you pay your bills .. I know I couldn't last long and would be horrified to have my personal business splashed across a public forum and basically being kicked while already down.

Say what you will about Kevin he's a big boy and doesn't need me to defend him, I don't own one of his bows. I went through a personal health crisis with a loved one this last winter that brought me to my knees... Kevin of all people recognized I needed help and reached out to me as an old friend .. Checked on me daily and helped me sort through my journey.. I made it through and so did my loved one... But it was rough and Kevin helped me a ton and I never even asked him to.

I'll never forget that ..this goes beyond bows and childish banter on the forums


----------



## op27 (Jan 12, 2008)

THE BULL said:


> just glad I didnt buy a K & K...All my buddies are selling theirs now...LOL...I tried to warn them..



You cant count your mother as your buddy :smile:

and cousin's dont count either


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> Just for the record some have had an oppurtunity to see Kevins true nature come out. Anyone remember the guy that got booted from the Strother forum for posting the speeds of his Elite Judge?? Well i sure do... It was me... What about my friend that sent his Inspire to Kevin to be tuned and then got it back in the same exact condition??? His name is Jamie and he shoots a Hoyt now... Kevins dealings have lead to all this.
> 
> Anyone hear the one about Kevin sueing me for slander and defamation of character?? Bet you didnt! Not just me but L Train from the Elite Forum and AT as well... I still have the PMs from him on AA.... This was a few weeks back.


 HAHAHAHA! Anyone that tries to say that DF doesn't have an agenda against Kevin Strother needs to be sure and read this. Oh and that crap of "I'm innocent and just posting this for informative purposes" is just that...crap.
Nothing has changed, this thread is full of the same people hammering Kevin personally and professionally. They use every opportunity to do so which really is sad. Of course they're also the people that act like that know exactly what the circumstances are when in fact, they don't have any idea what the truth is. 
Then of course, AT let's it continue which just blows my mind. Like the 15+ page nock travel claiming the bow was untunable thread that went on for days , then a guy buys the bow, tunes it in a few shots and that thread was gone in an hour. 
It all really is sickening.


----------



## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

achiro said:


> hahahaha! Anyone that tries to say that df doesn't have an agenda against kevin strother needs to be sure and read this. Oh and that crap of "i'm innocent and just posting this for informative purposes" is just that...crap.
> Nothing has changed, this thread is full of the same people hammering kevin personally and professionally. They use every opportunity to do so which really is sad. Of course they're also the people that act like that know exactly what the circumstances are when in fact, they don't have any idea what the truth is.
> Then of course, at let's it continue which just blows my mind. Like the 15+ page nock travel claiming the bow was untunable thread that went on for days , then a guy buys the bow, tunes it in a few shots and that thread was gone in an hour.
> It all really is sickening.


agreed 100%


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

bloodtrail1 said:


> Well if anyone on here deserves to be hassled its you....You just love to "poke sticks" at the hornets nest whenever you can.


Only one Hornets nest.... :wink: 

And hassel away!


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

stixshooter said:


> You might ask yourselves how it would go if you lost your job.. Got sued a few times and didn't get paid for one reason or another for something you thought you had coming ... How long could you pay your bills .. I know I couldn't last long and would be horrified to have my personal business splashed across a public forum and basically being kicked while already down.
> 
> Say what you will about Kevin he's a big boy and doesn't need me to defend him, I don't own one of his bows. I went through a personal health crisis with a loved one this last winter that brought me to my knees... Kevin of all people recognized I needed help and reached out to me as an old friend .. Checked on me daily and helped me sort through my journey.. I made it through and so did my loved one... But it was rough and Kevin helped me a ton and I never even asked him to.
> 
> I'll never forget that ..this goes beyond bows and childish banter on the forums


Thats good to hear. Honestly. Im glad Kev could be so supportive of you during a rough patch... I mean that with all my heart.


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## traildust (Feb 17, 2011)

Agreed....I have since changed my mind about K&K followers...early on in the pre-Banned for Life days.....the k&k boys seemed to have an agenda......but its nothing compared to the anti kevin and anti-K&K group over here....

Hey, I even got called a K&K fanboy...LOL



achiro said:


> HAHAHAHA! Anyone that tries to say that DF doesn't have an agenda against Kevin Strother needs to be sure and read this. Oh and that crap of "I'm innocent and just posting this for informative purposes" is just that...crap.
> Nothing has changed, this thread is full of the same people hammering Kevin personally and professionally. They use every opportunity to do so which really is sad. Of course they're also the people that act like that know exactly what the circumstances are when in fact, they don't have any idea what the truth is.
> Then of course, AT let's it continue which just blows my mind. Like the 15+ page nock travel claiming the bow was untunable thread that went on for days , then a guy buys the bow, tunes it in a few shots and that thread was gone in an hour.
> It all really is sickening.


----------



## Christopher67 (Nov 13, 2009)

Beaver said:


> Really, the Taliban!


Thats what i was thinking as well, "Really" :set1_thinking::shocked::loco:


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## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

yes he sounds like a fine fellow
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243824&page=1


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

achiro said:


> HAHAHAHA! Anyone that tries to say that DF doesn't have an agenda against Kevin Strother needs to be sure and read this. Oh and that crap of "I'm innocent and just posting this for informative purposes" is just that...crap.
> Nothing has changed, this thread is full of the same people hammering Kevin personally and professionally. They use every opportunity to do so which really is sad. Of course they're also the people that act like that know exactly what the circumstances are when in fact, they don't have any idea what the truth is.
> Then of course, AT let's it continue which just blows my mind. Like the 15+ page nock travel claiming the bow was untunable thread that went on for days , then a guy buys the bow, tunes it in a few shots and that thread was gone in an hour.
> It all really is sickening.


Motivation to post the info? Check.
Hidden Agenda?? Nope.

Believe whatever you want. If i wouldnt have posted this thread someone else would have. Its that simple.

Why is it you think this thread is here and not closed??? I bet you know the answer to that. 

If you dont like this forum there is always KevinsFanboys.com or AA or whatever you want to call it... Oh wait....


----------



## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

traildust said:


> *Copied from another website*
> 
> Quoted by Kevin
> 
> ...



Exactly!!!!


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

Kevin has always treated me right. I had an issue with one of my Elites, and Kevin went out of his way to contact me and have me send him my bow to look over which I did. He didn't have to do that. So I respect him for that. Plus, he has always gone out of his way to answer any questions I have asked him. How many companies can you get that level of personal service from the designer? Not very many I'm sure. So for this I give the guy props for personally coming on and talking with the consumer. And all the BS aside, the guy knows how to design a bow......


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

La Wildman said:


> ttt


Did you seriously just bump a thread two minutes after a post?


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Just got off work and i have stuff to do at home! Ill check back later....


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## happyhunter62 (Dec 31, 2010)

lol this is worse than a bowtech thread. 7pgs in 1 day!!!


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

achiro said:


> Then of course, AT let's it continue which just blows my mind.


I'm curious as to why your mind is blown. 
We have a documented source of information stating that 2 individuals that own an archery company are filing for Chapter 7...The chapter of the Bankruptcy Code providing for "liquidation," ( i.e., the sale of a debtor's nonexempt property and the distribution of the proceeds to creditors.)

This has relevance in the archery community as many here ordered bows from said individuals or may have interest in ordering bows. Nobody on here knows exactly how the company was structured and if proper mechanisms were put into place to protect company assets from liquidation. Also who are the VC's in the company? The owners? 

I am intrigued as to your reason(s) for protesting the existence of this thread.


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## crooked stick (Jul 1, 2006)

stixshooter said:


> Them there look like some pretty fancy britches too !


Hey I can make anything look good..:shade:


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## Cornfed (Oct 15, 2002)

It's always interesting to see what's going on behind the scenes. It's certainly something for K&K fans to think about.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

DeepFried said:


> Anyone remember the guy that got booted from the Strother forum for posting the speeds of his Elite Judge??
> It was me
> 
> my friend sent his Inspire to Kevin to be tune and then got it back in the same exact condition?




Maybe there was nothing wrong with it? :dontknow:


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

Out West said:


> Kevin has always treated me right.
> 
> I had an issue with one of my Elites, and Kevin went out of his way to contact me and have me send him my bow to look over which I did.




Sounds like great service -- what month/year was it when you sent Kevin your Elite bow?


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## killerloop (Mar 16, 2008)

collectors item!!!!


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## upserman (Oct 13, 2006)

DeepFried said:


> https://ecf.idb.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/PublicCalendar.pl


: K&K Bankrupt

I do believe this is not a correct and is a miss leading statement. For that reason it should have been pulled.


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## toby lester (Oct 15, 2010)

k and k archery llc did not file for bankruptcy....why is this threat here?


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## wvbowhunter09 (Mar 14, 2009)

If this was about any other bow company it would be gone by now.


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## op27 (Jan 12, 2008)

Doc said:


> I'm curious as to why your mind is blown.
> We have a documented source of information stating that 2 individuals that own an archery company are filing for Chapter 7...The chapter of the Bankruptcy Code providing for "liquidation," ( i.e., the sale of a debtor's nonexempt property and the distribution of the proceeds to creditors.)
> 
> This has relevance in the archery community as many here ordered bows from said individuals or may have interest in ordering bows. Nobody on here knows exactly how the company was structured and if proper mechanisms were put into place to protect company assets from liquidation. Also who are the VC's in the company? The owners?
> ...



I am guessing because of the man crush that Deep Fried has for Kevin. I am all about keeping people informed, but its funny how the same people like to keep everyone informed with certain companies. Its just like the other lawsuit thread that the same people posted over and over again. That didnt seem to make a difference in anything, but was dragged out on here for days.


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## muck (May 15, 2005)

staying out of this and getting some popcorn to watch this thread.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

I was going to take the wife to see the new release of THOR tonight, but I just got a headache !!! :boink:

:moviecorn: :darkbeer:


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## beaverhunter (Apr 4, 2008)

Sad that this has been on top ALL DAY. Bet theres a bunch of soap opera fans that never miss their "stories" at midday on here!


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

THE BULL said:


> just glad I didnt buy a K & K...All my buddies are selling theirs now...LOL...I tried to warn
> 
> When shopping for my new bow I was concerned of what those bows are going to be worth in a couple of years if the business does not make it.....I was replacing a bow from a now defunct bow company. Thus, company history does mean something to me. No doubt K&K making some nice bows just curious to see what carry over there is from their personal bankruptcy to their "shop". Hopefully K&K will make it.


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

op27 said:


> I am guessing because of the man crush that Deep Fried has for Kevin. I am all about keeping people informed, but its funny how the same people like to keep everyone informed with certain companies. Its just like the other lawsuit thread that the same people posted over and over again. That didnt seem to make a difference in anything, but was dragged out on here for days.


I understand what you're saying. I like to keep an eye on certain types of companies (particularly those I have a financial interest in) and others like to keep an eye on archery companies. It's all about what interests you or trips your trigger. I don't think it makes it right or wrong though. I personally don't like Monet paintings, but some do...neither is right or wrong IMO.
Fact is there is more "mystique" around archery companies as the real story and numbers are unavailable, so digging and piece-milling small bits of information to understand a small fraction of what is going on is necessary if one chooses to pursue this....I could see why it would interest people. I have no issue with it as long as there is legitimate cited sources of information:nod:


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## BowButla (Aug 5, 2009)

For those who have a K&K and are happy with it, ignore this nonscense. For those who dont own one, you too can ignore this nonscence. For those of you who own a K&K and are not happy, you may or may not have a problem. We are talking about a bow here people. A simple machine designed to give humans pleasure. If you are not getting pleasure from owning your K&K, you probably will be an unhappy human no matter what brand of machine you shoot. The point is, life is what you make of it. You can make it misserable or delightful. It is your choice............


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Doc said:


> I understand what you're saying. I like to keep an eye on certain types of companies (particularly those I have a financial interest in) and others like to keep an eye on archery companies. It's all about what interests you or trips your trigger. I don't think it makes it right or wrong though. I personally don't like Monet paintings, but some do...neither is right or wrong IMO.
> Fact is there is more "mystique" around archery companies as the real story and numbers are unavailable, so digging and piece-milling small bits of information to understand a small fraction of what is going on is necessary if one chooses to pursue this....I could see why it would interest people. I have no issue with it as long as there is legitimate cited sources of information:nod:


If only i could have said this as well as you did...lol


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

7 pages in 15 hours......


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

BowButla said:


> For those who have a K&K and are happy with it, ignore this nonscense. For those who dont own one, you too can ignore this nonscence. For those of you who own a K&K and are not happy, you may or may not have a problem. We are talking about a bow here people. A simple machine designed to give humans pleasure. If you are not getting pleasure from owning your K&K, you probably will be an unhappy human no matter what brand of machine you shoot. The point is, life is what you make of it. You can make it misserable or delightful. It is your choice............


Interesting stance, but owning a bow is not like owning a toaster (quick tell me what brand of toaster you own...bet most can't). To some there is a culture or sense of "brotherhood" that goes along with owning a particular brand of bow. People want to be part of the company and celebrate its victories. They want to support the company and flaunt the latest and greatest sliver slinger. If this was not true, then the number of shooter shirts at competitions would all but disappear and guys would hold on to bows for 10-12 years+ like they used to do:nod:


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

Mt toaster is made by K&K archery its called a Vindicator.




Doc said:


> Interesting stance, but owning a bow is not like owning a toaster (quick tell me what brand of toaster you own...bet most can't). To some there is a culture or sense of "brotherhood" that goes along with owning a particular brand of bow. People want to be part of the company and celebrate its victories. They want to support the company and flaunt the latest and greatest sliver slinger. If this was not true, then the number of shooter shirts at competitions would all but disappear and guys would hold on to bows for 10-12 years+ like they used to do:nod:


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## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

FCFCharlie said:


> I think he's related to Pherson McPherson, Terry Tartin and Pete Peply. Who, if I'm not mistaken, are all distantly related to Magnus VonMagnuson, who, was the Worlds Strongest man for many many years. Though to be fair, people like Phil Pfister and Mariusz Pudzianowski have moved toward center stage in recent years... All this is not in any way to take away from the greatness of Matt Mathews, Terry Tartin and Pete Peply.
> 
> That's all I have to say about that.


You forgot to mention Hoyty Toyty!


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

Doc said:


> Interesting stance, but owning a bow is not like owning a toaster (quick tell me what brand of toaster you own...bet most can't). To some there is a culture or sense of "brotherhood" that goes along with owning a particular brand of bow. People want to be part of the company and celebrate its victories. They want to support the company and flaunt the latest and greatest sliver slinger. If this was not true, then the number of shooter shirts at competitions would all but disappear and guys would hold on to bows for 10-12 years+ like they used to do:nod:


A solid, sensible post as we would all expect from Doc.

As for the bankruptcy filing, we don't have adequate information to draw any conclusions...so for now Kevin's post on the other forum could well be totally accurate and it may not impact K&K. The filing is a Chapter 7, which is designed for personal or business protection and liquidation (I deal with dozens of bankruptcies daily, but am certainly not an expert). Unless we know how the ownership of the LLC is structured and whether Kevin or Kate are personal guarantors of company debt, it is not particularly responsible to speculate on how the company may be impacted. If Kevin and Kate are direct owners of the company, the company and its assets could become targets of creditors (not speculating, just explaining how Chapter 7 works). Perhaps someone here has a subscription to Pacer and has access to the petition filed.

That all said, I feel badly that Kevin and Kate have to be personally subjected to the haters and irresponsible speculation in this thread. I wish them the best in this difficult time.


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

incendiaerus said:


> I was going to take the wife to see the new release of THOR tonight, but I just got a headache !!! :boink:
> 
> :moviecorn: :darkbeer:


Go, i saw it and thought it was a great fun movie, very funny too


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## THE BULL (Feb 24, 2009)

I wonder why Kevin hasnt came on to defend himself!!!!! I would really like to hear his side.


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## THE BULL (Feb 24, 2009)

champion2 said:


> mt toaster is made by k&k archery its called a vindicator.


lmao


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## FCFCharlie (Mar 18, 2010)

Blackhawkhunter said:


> You forgot to mention Hoyty Toyty!


How could I forget Hoyty "Upperclass" Toyty?!!??! He was from a different era in strong man competition, back in the day of the traveling circus. He's lift 500lb weights over his head all while wearing knee high lace up boots and a tiger print singlet! He'd shine up his bald head, wax his handlebar mustache and wrestle bears for money. Only bear that I ever saw beat him was a bruiser named Fred... it was a heck of a fight.


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

im in b 4 its closed classifieds here they come trade one for a bag of field points and some nocks


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## flatlineks (Nov 26, 2009)

:set1_violent002:


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

I dont see it happening any bow he designs seems to hold equal value to anything else out there in classifieds! Look at the resale on Athens, PSE, and a whole host of others its not very good! Truth be told what bow really does hold any resale value?





bowcrete said:


> im in b 4 its closed classifieds here they come trade one for a bag of field points and some nocks


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## op27 (Jan 12, 2008)

THE BULL said:


> I wonder why Kevin hasnt came on to defend himself!!!!! I would really like to hear his side.


His side was already posted.


----------



## tjandy (Jun 10, 2005)

RecordKeeper said:


> A solid, sensible post as we would all expect from Doc.
> 
> As for the bankruptcy filing, we don't have adequate information to draw any conclusions...so for now Kevin's post on the other forum could well be totally accurate and it may not impact K&K. The filing is a Chapter 7, which is designed for personal or business protection and liquidation (I deal with dozens of bankruptcies daily, but am certainly not an expert). Unless we know how the ownership of the LLC is structured and whether Kevin or Kate are personal guarantors of company debt, it is not particularly responsible to speculate on how the company may be impacted. If Kevin and Kate are direct owners of the company, the company and its assets could become targets of creditors (not speculating, just explaining how Chapter 7 works). Perhaps someone here has a subscription to Pacer and has access to the petition filed.
> 
> That all said, I feel badly that Kevin and Kate have to be personally subjected to the haters and irresponsible speculation in this thread. I wish them the best in this difficult time.


and the same can be said for you RK. :thumb:


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## SwitchBuck (Apr 15, 2005)

you people are unbelieveable........ lock this....


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Id appreciate it if the thread stayed on topic guys. :amen:


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## nagster (Nov 29, 2007)

Do unto others as you would want done to yourself.


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## BowButla (Aug 5, 2009)

Doc said:


> Interesting stance, but owning a bow is not like owning a toaster (quick tell me what brand of toaster you own...bet most can't). To some there is a culture or sense of "brotherhood" that goes along with owning a particular brand of bow. People want to be part of the company and celebrate its victories. They want to support the company and flaunt the latest and greatest sliver slinger. If this was not true, then the number of shooter shirts at competitions would all but disappear and guys would hold on to bows for 10-12 years+ like they used to do:nod:


Black and Decker is the brand of toaster I own. It did not come with a shooter shirt, but I happily eat the toast it makes anyway. I particularly do not care for the "brand brotherhood" as I believe it is the person that shoots the score or harvests the game. The machine he totes is simply a machine. I do wear a new shooter shirt for New Breed Archery each year, but I typicaly keep my bows until they wear out or they ask me to upgrade...............


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

RK...Good to see you around and here I thought Bankruptcy was the big black triangle on "The Wheel."



RecordKeeper said:


> A solid, sensible post as we would all expect from Doc.
> 
> As for the bankruptcy filing, we don't have adequate information to draw any conclusions...so for now Kevin's post on the other forum could well be totally accurate and it may not impact K&K. The filing is a Chapter 7, which is designed for personal or business protection and liquidation (I deal with dozens of bankruptcies daily, but am certainly not an expert). Unless we know how the ownership of the LLC is structured and whether Kevin or Kate are personal guarantors of company debt, it is not particularly responsible to speculate on how the company may be impacted. If Kevin and Kate are direct owners of the company, the company and its assets could become targets of creditors (not speculating, just explaining how Chapter 7 works). Perhaps someone here has a subscription to Pacer and has access to the petition filed.
> 
> That all said, I feel badly that Kevin and Kate have to be personally subjected to the haters and irresponsible speculation in this thread. I wish them the best in this difficult time.


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

BowButla said:


> I particularly do not care for the "brand brotherhood" as I believe it is the person that shoots the score or harvests the game. The machine he totes is simply a machine.


I hear what you're saying, but you do make a case for believing in this "brand brotherhood":nod:
Exhibit A:


BowButla said:


> The Genetix is known for smooth as silk draw with speed. The Nemesis is known for alot of energy from a super short bow. There is another horse in the stable called the Cyborg (primarily a target bow). The Genetix has been my favorite for years because it will handle game equally as well as foam. I have shot both solid and split limb versions. I prefer the solid limbs for less overall mass weight. New Breeds tune out with very little effort, and can digest varying spined arrows easily. *New Breeds are different and special in a good way*....................pm me if you have any specific questions.


Exhibit B:


BowButla said:


> Yeah I will agree that the Vindy is very smooth, but wait until the New Breed "Eclipse" is unleashed.


Exhibit C:


BowButla said:


> Try a New Breed Cyborg. It will fit your criteria.


I'm not trying to criticize, just suggesting there are different levels of Brand Brotherhood....I'd put you at a Stage 2/3
1) Supporter
2) Believer
3) Promoter
4) Fan Boy
5) Irrational Defender


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Yea things happen in life. Somehow in this mess I would say it's related to a judgement I saw posted somewhere where a persona from Texas beat Kate in court for a few hundred grand settlement and won. So the best thing to do to not have to actually PAY this settlement is to go BK.

I figure it's related to this,,,and that ordeal I believe was birthed out of the Strother franchise they started. I could be wrong,,,,I'm not much of one who gloats on people's misfortunes,,,,,but I do think I remember very recently reading how Kate lost a court case for a few hundred grand. If it were me,,,and I thought the verdict was bad,,,,i'd go BK too,,,unless I legitimately owed the money.


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## BowButla (Aug 5, 2009)

Well researched Doc. I happen to like the draw cycle of New Breeds more than the other machines I shoot. I admit it. I like and own the K&K along with other shooting machines for the same reasons.


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## flatlineks (Nov 26, 2009)

:dj::rockhard::band::jazzmatazzes::rock: t::icon_1_lol: :happy1:


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

BowButla said:


> Well researched Doc. I happen to like the draw cycle of New Breeds more than the other machines I shoot. I admit it. I like and own the K&K along with other shooting machines for the same reasons.


I don't like going into a discussion uninformed:wink: I've never had the opportunity to shoot the New Breeds, but did shoot the 3rd K&K bow built (SN:0003).


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## THE BULL (Feb 24, 2009)

flatline said:


> :dj::rockhard::band::jazzmatazzes::rock: t::icon_1_lol: :happy1:


lol


----------



## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

toby lester said:


> k and k archery llc did not file for bankruptcy....why is this threat here?


I asked this question back on page 2 but still havent heard an answer, it does seem to me to be deliberately misleading, I dont own a K&K bow and dont know the strothers from adam, but it does seem like alot of the people here relish in the lives of others, must be why there is so much reality television these days. I know if we were having this conversation in a bar, I would change the subject or turn the juke box up!


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## buckbuck419 (Jan 2, 2011)

:banana::banana::banana::banana:


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

atennishu said:


> I asked this question back on page 2 but still havent heard an answer, it does seem to me to be deliberately misleading, I dont own a K&K bow and dont know the strothers from adam, but it does seem like alot of the people here relish in the lives of others, must be why there is so much reality television these days. I know if we were having this conversation in a bar, I would change the subject or turn the juke box up!


I don't see where it says K&K Archery LLC or even K&K Archery filed for bankruptcy and it's further clarified in Post #11 who the parties involved are.


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## BowButla (Aug 5, 2009)

Doc said:


> I don't like going into a discussion uninformed:wink: I've never had the opportunity to shoot the New Breeds, but did shoot the 3rd K&K bow built (SN:0003).


I dont really take AT all that seriously to inspect other members profiles before chit chatting with them about archery tackle; maybe I should in case I run across well any more well practiced debators who happen to be AT members. But serioosly, I would like to know what did you think of the 3rd K&K??


----------



## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

I am pretty sure the post says K&K file for bankruptcy, it doesnt say Kevin and Kate Strother file bankruptcy , and since K&K is the logo for their company which has not filed bankruptcy......... I am pretty sure this is a misleading initial post title. Regardless if it says in post 11 who the parties are.


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

BowButla said:


> I dont really take AT all that seriously to inspect other members profiles before chit chatting with them about archery tackle; maybe I should in case I run across well any more well practiced debators who happen to be AT members. But serioosly, I would like to know what did you think of the 3rd K&K??


I know a lot of users here, but your name didn't ring a bell. I have to tread lightly so I don't get banned again, so I wanted to know what kind of individual I was responding to so I could post appropriately. I have messed up a time or 2 and assumed somebody was male or female and was incorrect. I've also jested with people that didn't have a sense of humor and things unintentionally escalate.

Now on to your question...I shoot left-handed and it was a right handed bow. I was hitting the 10 and 8 ring (javelina 3D target) from 30 yards out shooting wrong-handed and a 1/2 inch long in the draw. I thought the draw cycle loaded up a bit early for my taste, but the bow shot quite well. I wouldn't call it the most "shock-free" bow I've ever shot, but it certainly wasn't in the 10 worst either. I really liked the grip of the bow and it felt light. The bow wasn't as fast as what I was shooting, but it definitely got the carbon there in a hurry. Overall: a nicely designed well thought-out bow.


----------



## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

atennishu said:


> I am pretty sure the post says K&K file for bankruptcy, it doesnt say Kevin and Kate Strother file bankruptcy , and since K&K is the logo for their company which has not filed bankruptcy......... I am pretty sure this is a misleading initial post title. Regardless if it says in post 11 who the parties are.


Understand where you are coming from and the original title (K&K Bankrupt) was changed (most likely due to your initial post). The hearing has not even occurred yet, so stating K&K Bankrupt is unwarranted. However...this is right from the horse's mouth.
_"The “K&K” in K&K Archery stands for Kate and Kevin Strother."_


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

I get who the people are, and I am not even debating whether the information should or shouldnt be posted , all court filings that are public record are just that, the only thing I am saying is in my opinion, using the K&K in the title in any form is misleading, as it infers that the company and not the individuals have filed.


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## BowButla (Aug 5, 2009)

Doc said:


> I know a lot of users here, but your name didn't ring a bell. I have to tread lightly so I don't get banned again, so I wanted to know what kind of individual I was responding to so I could post appropriately. I have messed up a time or 2 and assumed somebody was male or female and was incorrect. I've also jested with people that didn't have a sense of humor and things unintentionally escalate.
> 
> Now on to your question...I shoot left-handed and it was a right handed bow. I was hitting the 10 and 8 ring (javelina 3D target) from 30 yards out shooting wrong-handed and a 1/2 inch long in the draw. I thought the draw cycle loaded up a bit early for my taste, but the bow shot quite well. I wouldn't call it the most "shock-free" bow I've ever shot, but it certainly wasn't in the 10 worst either. I really liked the grip of the bow and it felt light. The bow wasn't as fast as what I was shooting, but it definitely got the carbon there in a hurry. Overall: a nicely designed well thought-out bow.


Pretty good review from a south paw with a long dl.................


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

atennishu said:


> I get who the people are, and I am not even debating whether the information should or shouldnt be posted , all court filings that are public record are just that, the only thing I am saying is in my opinion, using the K&K in the title in any form is misleading, as it infers that the company and not the individuals have filed.


If you had started the thread (not assuming or implicating you would), how would you have constructed the title?


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

I used K&K because it is commonly known to 'most' here that it refers to ''Kevin and Kate''... Sorry if it seems misleading.


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

Just like the court filing said Kevin and Kate Strother file bankruptcy.... doesnt seem too hard to me to make the correct title


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

I Can just see people seeing that title that had ordered a bow, or purchased a bow or whatever , assuming that the company had filed


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

wvbowhunter09 said:


> If this was about any other bow company it would be gone by now.


That is something that I once brought to the attention of a mod on here the last time one of these K&K threads got going. I mentioned if it were any other company, it wouldnt be allowed to go on like this. But because who it is, its always allowed.....I would comment further but wont.


----------



## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

Out West said:


> For your information, I don't get what he is intending here by these comments towards mine "tread lightly my friend, you do not know everyones life story". Yes, I don't know everybody's life story. Just like we don't know all the intimate details of "EVERYTHING" in Kevin and Kate's life. So I was basically saying why don't the haters back off of Kevin and Kate and cut them some slack.... because we would all hate to have bad luck or hard times befall any of us....


you mean hard times like having to lose the hummer or the $100k kitchen, the stove is $10k(all in videos they posted on youtube). this doesnt even come close to comparing this crap to people who have lost loved ones to cancer(most recent my grandmother),neighbors ,friends,soldiers to war,disfigured and killed etc. REAL HARD TIMES. not paying your bills = no sympathy from me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM4NMQZNfLM&NR=1


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## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

HAAAA, HAAAAA, HAAAA!!! HA!, HAAAA! ... HAAA! ... HAAA!


Just ask for my two cents worth.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

toddsurfs said:


> you mean hard times like having to lose the hummer or the $100k kitchen, the stove is $10k(all in videos they posted on youtube). this doesnt even come close to comparing this crap to people who have lost loved ones to cancer(most recent my grandmother),neighbors ,friends,soldiers to war,disfigured and killed etc. REAL HARD TIMES. not paying your bills = no sympathy from me
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM4NMQZNfLM&NR=1


A 100k kitchen?? You're kidding? Our household doesnt make that much...lol 

All clues to the puzzle...


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

nagster said:


> Do unto others as you would want done to yourself.



Do unto others as they would do unto you








Lets hope this turns positive and that K&K comes out profitable; we need more experienced entrepreneurs not less.


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## thirdypointer (Jul 26, 2006)

I heard Bernie Madoff is selling retirement investments from jail, he's got some loyal followers! Wow, there is no way to keep up with this thread, i see page 20 filled by noon tomorrow.


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## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

bloodtrail1 said:


> That is something that I once brought to the attention of a mod on here the last time one of these K&K threads got going. I mentioned if it were any other company, it wouldnt be allowed to go on like this. But because who it is, its always allowed.....I would comment further but wont.


I think it's because well coneected people higher up on the bow compnay food chain know alot more about Kate and Kevin than any of the Kate and Kevin would ever want to know about their god!!!!


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## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

pause the video and look at the rock on her hand as she's bashing a coffee company


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

:spy: If it's on the internet it really isn't private anymore now is it?

:izza:


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## heavy dart (May 4, 2005)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM4NMQZNfLM&NR=1

That was annoying.


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## Fiber Guy (Mar 14, 2006)

wow i just got caught up. To all the people saying that kevin and kates private life should be kept private then they haven't been to Youtube have they? Maybe they should also tell kate and kevin this.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

LOL now thats an interesting point


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

And someone asked about drama before? Well again, AT at it's finest. People whining about an oven in a kitchen, the rock on her hand, some Hummer, etc, etc.... Simply hilarious. Are we grown adults? Or spiteful just because someone has more than "me" your going to complain and whine.......


Doc, you cite the reason to leave the thread open is because of a link saying they are filing for bankruptcy, but you truly want this thread open for it's comedic value. That's fine, go ahead and admit it. :wink:


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

flatline said:


> :dj::rockhard::band::jazzmatazzes::rock: t::icon_1_lol: :happy1:


Just unban kevin and let him speak. Haha flatline.got me laughin while im poopin


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## Fiber Guy (Mar 14, 2006)

the next K/K bow is going to be the triple shot velvet hammer


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## gjtro (Sep 22, 2008)

backstrap steve said:


> Just unban kevin and let him speak. Haha flatline.got me laughin while im poopin


i agree!


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

I say we should lock down this thread!!! sarcasm 

We should also burn the books and eat the teachers! sarcasm 

Why are people SO afraid of other people's opinions??? NOT sarcasm


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

Stump Shooter said:


> Doc, you cite the reason to leave the thread open is because of a link saying they are filing for bankruptcy, but you truly want this thread open for it's comedic value. That's fine, go ahead and admit it. :wink:


I never gave a reason for leaving the thread open...I just know it's open and my opinion doesn't matter.:nod: With that being said, it is better than George Carlin Live at Carnegie Hall for sure.:lol:


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## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

Doc said:


> I never gave a reason for leaving the thread open...I just know it's open and my opinion doesn't matter.:nod: With that being said, it is better than George Carlin Live at Carnegie Hall for sure.:lol:


Ain't that the truth


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

Fiber Guy said:


> the next K/K bow is going to be the triple shot velvet hammer


If someone can make it through 20 seconds of that crap i will buy u a case of beer. Un f-ing believable. A dog pooping is more entertaining than that


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## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

DeepFried said:


> Take this thread how you want to... Fact is im extremely hopeful that Kevin and Kate make it through and design 1000's of bows in the future... This is an information sharing thread. Call me any name you want to. Its still just a post on a forum. Dont take it personally either way.


This is getting a little old. Can you please try and find some dirt on Matt Mcphearson, or Pete Shepley. Something original.


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Let's see a thread stay open this long if it was about anything "Martin". NOT sarcasm

No one buys one of those anyway, so it probably doesn't matter. sarcasm :shade:





1955 said:


> I say we should lock down this thread!!! sarcasm
> 
> We should also burn the books and eat the teachers! sarcasm
> 
> Why are people SO afraid of other people's opinions??? NOT sarcasm


----------



## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

Yeah its so funny to hear people say that nobody should say things on the internet about others personal lives when the Strothers themselves post every lame moment they have on youtube.Yet nobody says anything about that at all.He is basically a god on the AA forum.I have nothing personal against Kevin or Kate.Ive talked to him a couple times and he seems very knowledgable and a nice enough person.

Im just beyond sick of the drama that goes along with the Strothers.He obviously makes bad decisions business wise and yet when thats mentioned everyone jumps on you for saying it.If you were hiring someone and their resume had the same work history as Kevins and under the reason for leaving they ALWAYS say I was screwed over and it wasnt my fault.Would you think that person would be a good hire? 

That being said he obviously designs a good Bow and I hope they make it just because its nice to have some other options to look at when buying a bow.


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## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

Stump Shooter said:


> Let's see a thread stay open this long if it was about anything "Martin". NOT sarcasm
> 
> No one buys one of those anyway, so it probably doesn't matter. sarcasm :shade:


AGAIN.................I think it's because well connected people higher up on the bow compnay food chain know alot more about Kate and Kevin than any of the Kate and Kevin leg humpers would ever want to know about their god!!!! Maybe just think about it a little deeper and i bet it'll come to you.


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## Backstrapz (Jan 19, 2011)

I wish my life revolved around archery in the way it does so many here. Then I would care about this. But whether a company folds or doesn't has no effect on me. And I could care less about bow warranties.


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Easy son...watch your tone.

Who are these "well connected" you are talking about? Names.....




tapout155 said:


> AGAIN.................I think it's because well connected people higher up on the bow compnay food chain know alot more about Kate and Kevin than any of the Kate and Kevin leg humpers would ever want to know about their god!!!! Maybe just think about it a little deeper and i bet it'll come to you.


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

Stump Shooter said:


> Let's see a thread stay open this long if it was about anything "Martin". NOT sarcasm
> 
> No one buys one of those anyway, so it probably doesn't matter. sarcasm :shade:




Maybe...just maybe, it's because this forum belongs to Martin, and they can do with it as they please!!!


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## curley30030x (Jun 22, 2005)

Funny that everyone is such a die hard fan...left elite....screwed up with Strother.....Honestly...is it a SURPRISE that K&K is going under????.....
Can't wait for the next HYPE, and "I ORDERED MY NEW 'STROTHER' 'KEVIN SPECIALTIES' BOW" thread......Some people are better off as EMPLOYEES, and not "Business owners"
Gotta give Credit to the guy, builds HYPE, and a Half Decent bow, but man,......he sure knows how to screw up in business!
Good luck to all his loyal fans!


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## norsask darton (May 8, 2005)

I really don't understand why something personal to Kate and Kevin would be published like this! I didn't follow the link and am pretty sure this is personal and nothing to do with K&K. What a thing to bring onto a public forum. How would the lot of you all feel about your personal stuff being brought on here for everyone to talk?


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

Backstrapz said:


> I wish my life revolved around archery in the way it does so many here. Then I would care about this. But whether a company folds or doesn't has no effect on me. And I could care less about bow warranties.


And for the same reason that felt you HAD to post here, so did the rest of us. To me, this is simply entertainment.


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

I can't believe some of these posts... Do some of you spend time taunting handicap people as well?

Gee's o' Fridays .. you guys .. the Strothers are people too ya know .. Mercy May folks ... Mercy May

Karma is a ***** ya know ...


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

With what some people post, I have to admit....I believe that I do.




stixshooter said:


> I can't believe some of these posts... _Do some of you spend time taunting handicap people as well_?
> 
> Gee's o Fridays .. you guys .. the Strothers are people too ya know


----------



## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

norsask darton said:


> I really don't understand why something personal to Kate and Kevin would be published like this! I didn't follow the link and am pretty sure this is personal and nothing to do with K&K. What a thing to bring onto a public forum. How would the lot of you all feel about your personal stuff being brought on here for everyone to talk?
> 
> 
> K&K Vengeance on order, Elite GT500, Victory VForce HV 350 arrows, Trophy Ridge Alpha v5, Octane stabilizers, T.R.U. Ball THT3.


I see by your signature, that you're VERY neutral in this thread... And I can understand you being scared also.


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## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

Stump Shooter said:


> Easy son...watch your tone.
> 
> Who are these "well connected" you are talking about? Names.....


HAHA let me worry about the tone and I would never tell you who these people are but i can see it wouldnt matter if i did because they would just be lying about the great god Kevin. honestly i dont give a crap to bash the guy but i think his fans do a fine job of putting him in the forefront. If you guys want to keep setting them up all the Kevin "haters" will keep nocking them down.


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## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

norsask darton said:


> I really don't understand why something personal to Kate and Kevin would be published like this! I didn't follow the link and am pretty sure this is personal and nothing to do with K&K. What a thing to bring onto a public forum. How would the lot of you all feel about your personal stuff being brought on here for everyone to talk?



I think it's because their business involves ripping people off. See you're thinking about this as some people that have fallen on hard times and how horrible it must be for them which i will tend to agree with you, but that is not the case by a mile.


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## Backstrapz (Jan 19, 2011)

1955 said:


> And for the same reason that felt you HAD to post here, so did the rest of us. To me, this is simply entertainment.


Well I cant say I didn't get some good laughs out of this as I sip on a little scotch.


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## curley30030x (Jun 22, 2005)

Fiber Guy said:


> the next K/K bow is going to be the triple shot velvet hammer


Great to see they dress expensive, eat/drink like royalty, but CAN'T PAY THIER BILLS!!!
What a crock of bull! I hope their supporters learn their lesson! The strothers aren't into helping out Archery, they are in the business of making quick bucks, and not caring! 
Personally, I hope they move into a small one bedroom, eat mediocre food, drive cheap cars, and pay for what they've done. SELFISH!


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Ok...I got it now. You're another one of those "I know a guy who knows some things about someone", "but I can't tell you who". Ok... credibility = zero But hey, I appreciate you chiming in saying that you know someone who knows something about someone. That's cool! I sure wish I knew someone. LOL!!

And to be clear, absolutely NO fan boy of Kevin or K&K here. I don't think the man should have ever jumped on the internet and told anyone who he is. Bad businessman, it sure seems like it. I just find it extremely funny that 80% of you will sit here and hammer the guy simply because you smell blood in the water. Nothing more....nothing less, you're simply jumping on the bandwagon of drama. But hey, if that's what gets you through the day....have at it.





tapout155 said:


> HAHA let me worry about the tone and I would never tell you who these people are but i can see it wouldnt matter if i did because they would just be lying about the great god Kevin. honestly i dont give a crap to bash the guy but i think his fans do a fine job of putting him in the forefront. If you guys want to keep setting them up all the Kevin "haters" will keep nocking them down.


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

norsask darton said:


> I really don't understand why something personal to Kate and Kevin would be published like this!


Are you referring to the YouTube videos or the bankruptcy filing?:noidea:


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

norsask darton said:


> I really don't understand why something personal to Kate and Kevin would be published like this!





Doc said:


> Are you referring to the YouTube videos or the bankruptcy filing?:noidea:


Hahahahaha


----------



## Moritz (Apr 21, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> Just for the record some have had an oppurtunity to see Kevins true nature come out. Anyone remember the guy that got booted from the Strother forum for posting the speeds of his Elite Judge?? Well i sure do... It was me... What about my friend that sent his Inspire to Kevin to be tuned and then got it back in the same exact condition??? His name is Jamie and he shoots a Hoyt now... Kevins dealings have lead to all this.
> 
> Anyone hear the one about Kevin sueing me for slander and defamation of character?? Bet you didnt! Not just me but L Train from the Elite Forum and AT as well... I still have the PMs from him on AA.... This was a few weeks back.



Very, very misleading Heading . . . . Check
Motivation . . . . Check
Personal vendetta . . . Check

You're just proofing that you should be sued by Kevin and if I was him, I would sue AT as well. Mods, this is clearly a personal matter and you are throwing it out there for the "dogs to tear apart" and not changing a very misleading title. Some of the threads on here are almost inhumane, SHAME ON YOU!!!:embara:


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Moritz said:


> Very, very misleading Heading . . . . Check
> Motivation . . . . Check
> Personal vendetta . . . Check
> 
> You're just proofing that you should be sued by Kevin and if I was him, I would sue AT as well. Mods, this is clearly a personal matter and you are throwing it out there for the "dogs to tear apart" and not changing a very misleading title. Some of the threads on here are almost inhumane, SHAME ON YOU!!!:embara:



The information provide was in the Public Domain. Unless you can prove injury, your point is moot.

This thread like any other open for Bow design or issues, etc, is valid for discussion.


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## Moritz (Apr 21, 2009)

What point that i made is moot? I made a few!!
1 There is a misleading Heading
2 Clear motivation for hurting Kevin
3 DeepFried is hurting Kevin with this thread, Personal vendetta

If you are revering to my thought that this tread should be closed down, well, if you take my first three points into consideration and you still can make a simple call between whether this tread is wrong or right then I don't know. All I'm saying is have a hart and that this is wrong!


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Moritz said:


> What point that i made is moot? I made a few!!
> 1 There is a misleading Heading
> 2 Clear motivation for hurting Kevin
> 3 DeepFried is hurting Kevin with this thread, Personal vendetta
> ...



"you're just proofing that you should be sued by Kevin and if I was him, I would sue AT as well." <-- referring the moot comment


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## Jay-J (Apr 20, 2005)

U fanboys need to get off his jock! The guy can design a bow... And that's where he should stay...behind the design table! If u all want to keep following him around,.. It's your $$$!! Goodluck!



Moritz said:


> What point that i made is moot? I made a few!!
> 1 There is a misleading Heading
> 2 Clear motivation for hurting Kevin
> 3 DeepFried is hurting Kevin with this thread, Personal vendetta
> ...


----------



## wearthefoxhat (Oct 26, 2008)

90% of posts on this thread actually have no freaking Idea…This is hilarious…there are people who deal in facts and then there is the others..
The people who deal in facts are nearly always the achievers and winners ..the people who do not more often than not are losers..


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Moritz said:


> ... I would think that AT should also be held responsible for the part they played.
> ... Is this what the Archery Community has come to?
> 
> ... I'm glad to call myself a South Africa Archer in that case!
> ... Here we still realize that we should stand together . . .



And I'm glade you have the opportunity to buy American.

Best regards,


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Good Morning! Nice to see all the smiling faces!!!

If Kevins sues me ill just file Chapter 7.... :wink:


----------



## wvbowhunter09 (Mar 14, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> Good Morning! Nice to see all the smiling faces!!!
> 
> If *Kevins sues* me ill just file Chapter 7.... :wink:


:set1_thinking::59:


----------



## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> Good Morning! Nice to see all the smiling faces!!!
> 
> If Kevins sues me ill just file Chapter 7.... :wink:


Good morning to you too DeepFried. 

This thread has gone pretty wild. But why am I not surprised?

I'm staying out of this battle.


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## footindave (Jul 15, 2009)

WOW THERES A SHOCKER 10 PAGES!!!! as stated before all over 1500 bows really people? is this because Martin cant even sell 1500 bows or what? good press on [email protected] its gets deleted but bad press goes on and on....


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

:archery: :hat: :hail::flock: :evil5: :drama: :violin:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Moritz said:


> What point that i made is moot? I made a few!!
> 1 There is a misleading Heading
> 2 Clear motivation for hurting Kevin
> 3 DeepFried is hurting Kevin with this thread, Personal vendetta
> ...


I got to ask, then you feel its OK to bankrupt? OK for members and archers to be stuck with bows of a bankrupt company. You feel those who bought these bows were never misleaded in any way. Why is this different than any other buissness? 
DB


----------



## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

Garceau said:


> 10 pages withing 24 hours from now.....


Nice prediction 

Could you please give me some lotto numbers


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Daniel Boone said:


> I got to ask, then you feel its OK to bankrupt? OK for members and archers to be stuck with bows of a bankrupt company. You feel those who bought these bows were never misleaded in any way. Why is this different than any other buissness?
> DB


DB Just want to say Thank You for stopping in. Always value your opinion. :wave:


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Wonder what the feed backs been like from the K&K forum?


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> I got to ask, then you feel its OK to bankrupt? OK for members and archers to be stuck with bows of a bankrupt company. You feel those who bought these bows were never misleaded in any way. Why is this different than any other buissness?
> DB


I bought two K&K bows and never felt mislead.
If they went belly up does this mean that my bows cease to shoot or something?
Im not overly worried about a warranty. Knock on wood, any bow Ive owned has never had an issue, never needed warranty work.
Granted, I havent kept many of them long.
Like someone posted above, its like blood in the water and the the sharks are in a frenzy.
Sad thing is, if I started a thread about any other bow company, and all the sharks got worked up into a frenzy.
The thread would be closed within a couple hours.
Not much class here anymore.


----------



## elk ivory (Apr 8, 2007)

DeepFried said:


> Good Morning! Nice to see all the smiling faces!!!
> 
> If Kevins sues me ill just file Chapter 7.... :wink:


:set1_applaud::evil5::set1_rolf2:

Wouldn't that be ironic!!!!

Sorta takes the bite out of being"sued" don't it!!!!


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

curiosity drew me here...

i visited the video...about one minute of her was enough for me...

ttfn


----------



## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

KurtVL said:


> Nice prediction
> 
> Could you please give me some lotto numbers


I could - do you want the correct ones? I cant guarantee that, those werent near as easy as this prediction. Kind like the sun coming up in the morning....


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

bloodtrail1 said:


> I bought two K&K bows and never felt mislead.
> If they went belly up does this mean that my bows cease to shoot or something?
> Im not overly worried about a warranty. Knock on wood, any bow Ive owned has never had an issue, never needed warranty work.
> Granted, I havent kept many of them long.
> ...


Search ''Lawsuit'' on here and look through a couple pages... Might surprise you.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

It seems other companys lawsuits are just as popular....


----------



## cornfedkiller (Feb 16, 2008)

A quote from the thread about Kate's Lawsuit in March..



DeepFried said:


> New news to me... Got the link saved before it ''poofed''...
> 
> I have very little interest in Strother bows let alone their lives...
> 
> I just love how some fish cant help but follow the school though...


----------



## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

Wow 10 pages. Good call. Of course its 9 pages of regurgitation of th 1st page.

Fanboys and detractors alike sound like a bunch of 12 year old girls 


*LEAVE KEVIN & KATE ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

cornfedkiller said:


> A quote from the thread about Kate's Lawsuit in March..


Good job. But honestly that doesnt bother me one bit. But again good job...


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

JeffB said:


> Wow 10 pages. Good call. Of course its 9 pages of regurgitation of th 1st page.
> 
> Fanboys and detractors alike sound like a bunch of 12 year old girls
> 
> ...


Jeff that is possibly the funniest post ive read in days! Thank you for brightening my day a little!!


----------



## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

bloodtrail1 said:


> I bought two K&K bows and never felt mislead.
> If they went belly up does this mean that my bows cease to shoot or something?
> Im not overly worried about a warranty. Knock on wood, any bow Ive owned has never had an issue, never needed warranty work.
> Granted, I havent kept many of them long.
> ...


Are you serious?? There are posts daily about Bowtech, Hoyt, etc and et al...the only reason K&K threads seem to play out like this is because his supporters chime in with the same defense, which may have held water when he was with Elite, but now, not so much.


----------



## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

Stump Shooter said:


> Let's see a thread stay open this long if it was about anything "Martin". NOT sarcasm
> 
> No one buys one of those anyway, so it probably doesn't matter. sarcasm :shade:


Now this I do have inside information on. I was lead admin and moderator manager for AT for a fairly long time... Despite the fact that Terry owns both AT and Martin Archery, I was always impressed by how objective Terry was. I can't recall one single time that he asked me to close or remove a thread that was critical of Martin. In fact, there were some such threads that I wanted to close and he asked me not to...

Sarcasm or not...your assertion is just not true.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

bloodtrail1 said:


> I bought two K&K bows and never felt mislead.
> If they went belly up does this mean that my bows cease to shoot or something?
> Im not overly worried about a warranty. Knock on wood, any bow Ive owned has never had an issue, never needed warranty work.
> Granted, I havent kept many of them long.
> ...


Im sure his creditors and some that wont have a warranty now will certianly dissagree. Not the first time he done this by the way.
Not paying debts and leaving others to have to show a loss is not a good thing. Maybe you can go float a loan or you will back him. If you truly believe.
If the supporters truly believe then start a fund raisor or better yet send him money to bail him out.
DB


----------



## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

Daniel Boone said:


> Im sure his creditors and some that wont have a warranty now will certianly dissagree. Not the first time he done this by the way.
> Not paying debts and leaving others to have to show a loss is not a good thing. Maybe you can go float a loan or you will back him. If you truly believe.
> If the supporters truly believe then start a fund raisor or better yet send him money to bail him out.
> DB


They already have been. They bought up those bows like nobodys business. To each their own....


----------



## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

The simple fact of the matter is this - some here may find this information very helpful and informative when making a bow purchase choice. Others may not.....

If I were in the market for a new anything, I would like to know if the company is having any issues, or for that matter its owners. It may relate to the product at hand. If I liked something enough, I may just take that chance.

We as consumers have that choice/option. 

I do have a serious question, are all of the pre ordered bows delivered? Reason I ask is my local shop has been waiting on one forever.....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

huntin_addict said:


> They already have been. They bought up those bows like nobodys business. To each their own....


If they bought the bows! Where did all the money go! If your filing bankruptcy you owe someone. I feel sorry for those who get screwed.
DB


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> Im sure his creditors and some that wont have a warranty now will certianly dissagree. Not the first time he done this by the way.
> Not paying debts and leaving others to have to show a loss is not a good thing. Maybe you can go float a loan or you will back him. If you truly believe.
> If the supporters truly believe then start a fund raisor or better yet send him money to bail him out.
> DB


DB all I believe is I like shooting my Vengeance and Vindicator.....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

bloodtrail1 said:


> DB all I believe is I like shooting my Vengeance and Vindicator.....


Good for you but that still doesnt mean someone didnt lose money. Maybe you will be willing to send a few dollars more to buy more in the future. If you paid for these bows where did all the money go is all Im saying?
DB


----------



## alks456 (Apr 21, 2010)

What a mess.
Kevin is talented engineer and have been creating a number
of high-class bows with the latest K&K very impressive.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Well he planned to sell 1500 bows....if he made 500 profit (which is high Im sure) that equals out to 3/4 million dollars. That can pay off alot of debt.

From some of the pics and videos that house they have is something else - really nice area as well.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> Good for you but that still doesnt mean someone didnt lose money. Maybe you will be willing to send a few dollars more to buy more in the future. If you paid for these bows where did all the money go is all Im saying?
> DB


I dont think they have actualy sold all that many bows yet!
They were going to sell a total of 1500
Im not sure how many have been sold yet?


----------



## crow3k (Feb 15, 2011)

for the love of god make this thread go away pleaseukey:


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

bloodtrail1 said:


> I dont think they have actualy sold all that many bows yet!
> They were going to sell a total of 1500
> Im not sure how many have been sold yet?


Im saying in bankruptcy someone loses bigtime, If there that good of bows 1500 bows is a very little number of bows. 
DB


----------



## Mctexans (Jul 14, 2010)

Ok for those who arent associated with the legal side of debt, bankruptcy is just one of many arrows in the quiver of a debt attorney trying to help fix an individual's or company's debt situation. Its used to fend off judgements or lawsuits or debt that would otherwise cause total insolvency and disaster. Most people have a view on this,and probably rightfully so, that bankruptcy and its various forms is a heinous and embarassing thing. But you will find today in the hard economic times we have all experienced its fairly common place. Thes folks are just two of hundreds of thousands who have had to try and reorganize their debts to survive. I wish them well. Be aware of being mean spirited because generally it comes back to bite you in the ass.

Tex


----------



## happyhunter62 (Dec 31, 2010)

wvbowhunter09 said:


> If this was about any other bow company it would be gone by now.


AMEN TO THAT!!! and why is kevin banned on at?


----------



## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

At end of the day the Strothers arent paying someone (or lots of folks) to whom they owe money. Pretty sorry for two individuals who claim to own a very successful archery company. 

No doubt they make great bows but certainly an integrity issue.


----------



## AR&BOW (May 24, 2009)

tapout155 said:


> I think it's because well coneected people higher up on the bow compnay food chain know alot more about Kate and Kevin than any of the Kate and Kevin leg humpers would ever want to know about their god!!!!


I think I just heard a lot of silent people yell BINGO!!


----------



## gkonduris (Sep 10, 2007)

Daniel Boone said:


> Good for you but that still doesnt mean someone didnt lose money. Maybe you will be willing to send a few dollars more to buy more in the future. If you paid for these bows where did all the money go is all Im saying?
> DB


Maybe it went to paying his suppliers. How else do you think he could continue to build and ship bows? I haven't seen one supplier post they haven't been paid.

This could have been there moment to make it good with a successful company so they could pay their debts off but when you have people like Deep Fried and others who wish nothing but harm to them......well it speaks loudly what kind of person you are.


----------



## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

Kate & Kevin just posted this video of thanks to their supporters here on this thread!


----------



## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

RecordKeeper said:


> Now this I do have inside information on. I was lead admin and moderator manager for AT for a fairly long time... Despite the fact that Terry owns both AT and Martin Archery, I was always impressed by how objective Terry was. I can't recall one single time that he asked me to close or remove a thread that was critical of Martin. In fact, there were some such threads that I wanted to close and he asked me not to...
> 
> Sarcasm or not...your assertion is just not true.


 
We love Terry -- can't say enough good things about this forum or his ability to stay neutral.


----------



## Christopher67 (Nov 13, 2009)

JeffB said:


> Kate & Kevin just posted this video of thanks to their supporters here on this thread!



Oh my, nasty! :embara:


----------



## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

BTW- I'm just funnin' around because people are getting way too angry about the drama that is K&K :thumb:


----------



## Backstrapz (Jan 19, 2011)

JeffB said:


> BTW- I'm just funnin' around because people are getting way too angry about the drama that is K&K :thumb:


Lol. All this worry over a guy making 1500 bows. He not taking over the world is he?


----------



## happyhunter62 (Dec 31, 2010)

tapout155 said:


> I think it's because well coneected people higher up on the bow compnay food chain know alot more about Kate and Kevin than any of the Kate and Kevin leg humpers would ever want to know about their god!!!!


yeah buddy, but it dont matter how high up they are this is nothing but letting people slander their name! Their is laws against that you know. simple as that and i wish the strother family the best.


----------



## Waynebow (Mar 9, 2010)

happyhunter62 said:


> yeah buddy, but it dont matter how high up they are this is nothing but letting people slander their name! Their is laws against that you know. simple as that and i wish the strother family the best.


There are also laws against not paying your bills. Unfortunately there are loopholes like chapter 7 that allow people to weasel out of their debts. All this sympathy for people who have a proven well known pattern of poor business practices, but no one is feeling sorry for the hundreds of thousands of dollars creditors could loose, that K&K could have used for the hummer and sub zero fridge????


----------



## 2xR (Dec 11, 2007)

2xR said:


> If I am not mistaken K&K Archery is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stingray Enterprises LLC. Since this is a Ch 7 bankruptcy (personal debt restructuring) very, very little chance if any at all this will impact Stingray or K&K ultimately.





Daniel Boone said:


> I got to ask, then you feel its OK to bankrupt? OK for members and archers to be stuck with bows of a bankrupt company. You feel those who bought these bows were never misleaded in any way. Why is this different than any other buissness?
> DB





Daniel Boone said:


> Im sure his creditors and some that wont have a warranty now will certianly dissagree. Not the first time he done this by the way.
> Not paying debts and leaving others to have to show a loss is not a good thing. Maybe you can go float a loan or you will back him. If you truly believe.
> If the supporters truly believe then start a fund raisor or better yet send him money to bail him out.
> DB





Daniel Boone said:


> If they bought the bows! Where did all the money go! If your filing bankruptcy you owe someone. I feel sorry for those who get screwed.
> DB



I am sure DB will feel picked on by my post, but I am using his merely to illustrate the *facts *in this thread and the pending case.

Kevin and Kate, NOT K&K Archery, are filing Ch. 7 (personal) Bankruptcy. The assets and profits (what there are), of K&K Archery are not part of this case. As stated by others, "the money" from bow sales of K&K Archery are likely going to pay manufacturers, machinists and suppliers of K&K Archery. 

Don't confuse the case, the plantiff(s), or the assets - and don't speak of what you don't know to be factual!


----------



## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

RecordKeeper said:


> Now this I do have inside information on. I was lead admin and moderator manager for AT for a fairly long time... Despite the fact that Terry owns both AT and Martin Archery, I was always impressed by how objective Terry was. I can't recall one single time that he asked me to close or remove a thread that was critical of Martin. In fact, there were some such threads that I wanted to close and he asked me not to...
> 
> Sarcasm or not...your assertion is just not true.


 then what is the reason you cannot search for K&K on AT? good to see you back RK


----------



## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Oh man, it just came to me; where in the world is Karbon?


----------



## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Marvin said:


> then what is the reason you cannot search for K&K on AT? good to see you back RK


I had no problem finding this thread:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1333662&page=1


----------



## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

2xR said:


> If I am not mistaken K&K Archery is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stingray Enterprises LLC.
> very little chance if any at all this will impact Stingray or K&K ultimately.


You mean Stingray Stabilizers?

http://stingraystabilizers.com/Home_Page.html


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## 2xR (Dec 11, 2007)

Yes - another wholly owned subsidiary of Stingray Enterprises, LLC. Started by Kurt, Kevins son...




Schpankme said:


> Oh man, it just came to me; where in the world is Karbon?



*** does Karbon have to do with this... Really people???


----------



## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

Schpankme said:


> I had no problem finding this thread:
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1333662&page=1


must be something on my account because when I got to search and type in K&K i get zero search result.


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

gkonduris said:


> Maybe it went to paying his suppliers. How else do you think he could continue to build and ship bows? I haven't seen one supplier post they haven't been paid.
> 
> This could have been there moment to make it good with a successful company so they could pay their debts off but when you have people like Deep Fried and others who wish nothing but harm to them......well it speaks loudly what kind of person you are.


If you can pay your debts, you dont file bankruptcy. I hope all who invested or supported Kevin and Kate dont get burned. Suppliers arent going to come here, actually once you file I dont think creditors are allowed to come forth.
DB


----------



## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

Garceau said:


> I could - do you want the correct ones? I cant guarantee that, those werent near as easy as this prediction. Kind like the sun coming up in the morning....


So do you think it makes 20 pages, or gets close first?


----------



## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

toddsurfs said:


> you mean hard times like having to lose the hummer or the $100k kitchen, the stove is $10k(all in videos they posted on youtube). this doesnt even come close to comparing this crap to people who have lost loved ones to cancer(most recent my grandmother),neighbors ,friends,soldiers to war,disfigured and killed etc. REAL HARD TIMES. not paying your bills = no sympathy from me
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM4NMQZNfLM&NR=1


Wow. After watching their youtube videos I have no sympathy for them anymore. They have pissed away more cash in a year than I have made after 17 years of military service. Archerys Madoff Family. 

Sorry no more sympathy here. Wish I could retract my first post. 

Seems like they would do well hangin out with the Ross'!


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## gkonduris (Sep 10, 2007)

Daniel Boone said:


> If you can pay your debts, you dont file bankruptcy. I hope all who invested or supported Kevin and Kate dont get burned. Suppliers arent going to come here, actually once you file I dont think creditors are allowed to come forth.
> DB


How can you make a successful company to pay your debts off when you get press like this? There are some in the industry that don't want them to succeed. Maybe he's a threat to their business. Just look at the foot print he has in the archery world. Many of us have shot and owned his designs.

Just to clarify, I have not seen any current suppliers that continue to supply them parts state they have not been paid. Creditors have no gag order, they can comment as much as they want. It's in the courts hands now and commenting will have no bearing.


----------



## happyhunter62 (Dec 31, 2010)

moritz said:


> very, very misleading heading . . . . Check
> motivation . . . . Check
> personal vendetta . . . Check
> 
> you're just proofing that you should be sued by kevin and if i was him, i would sue at as well. Mods, this is clearly a personal matter and you are throwing it out there for the "dogs to tear apart" and not changing a very misleading title. Some of the threads on here are almost inhumane, shame on you!!!:embara:


best post on this thread and the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## BEAR FOOT (Nov 30, 2007)

happyhunter62 said:


> best post on this thread and the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


i agree who digs for stuff like this anyhow???????

someone had to go looking for this to find it???????


----------



## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

gkonduris said:


> Maybe he's a threat to their business. Just look at the foot print he has in the archery world. Many of us have shot and owned his designs


Kevin was at one point a possible "threat"- right after his departure from BowTech- his design skills are notable (and I was a fan for many years- even before BT), however his reputation as a businessperson, and ability to work well with others in the industry is poor at best (and not unearned). He's at the point of having to build limited numbers of bows as a "home operation" due to this, and awareness of who he is, is very much limited to the internet and more specifically this site and a couple of other smaller sites. The hundreds of thousands (millions?) of average bowhunters and target shooters have no clue who he is or what bows he has designed. 

He is however a MAJOR threat to his own livelihood in this industry. He has burned his bridges, and continues to dig his own grave, so to speak.


----------



## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

BEAR FOOT said:


> i agree who digs for stuff like this anyhow???????
> 
> someone had to go looking for this to find it???????


I would bet you it wasn't Deep Fried. My guess is that he was just someone's messenger on this one. 

Continue with the lynching....


----------



## happyhunter62 (Dec 31, 2010)

Waynebow said:


> There are also laws against not paying your bills. Unfortunately there are loopholes like chapter 7 that allow people to weasel out of their debts. All this sympathy for people who have a proven well known pattern of poor business practices, but no one is feeling sorry for the hundreds of thousands of dollars creditors could loose, that K&K could have used for the hummer and sub zero fridge????


i'm not saying its wrong but people file bankruptcy every day. and how do you know who k and k owes. i thought it was kevins and kates (PERSONAL) debts and NOT the companys


----------



## robbates (May 30, 2007)

I just got my Venegeance today... It's awesome. That's all I have to say.. Have a great day everyone..


----------



## Buckstikker (Dec 29, 2009)

Daniel Boone said:


> If you can pay your debts, you dont file bankruptcy. I hope all who invested or supported Kevin and Kate dont get burned. Suppliers arent going to come here, actually once you file I dont think creditors are allowed to come forth.
> DB


I have been part of a lawsuit or two in my career. What you continue to say is K&K Archery cannot pay their bills. This is slander/libel. K&K Archery is, for all you or I know, paying their bills. For all you and I know, K&K Archery is deep in the black financially. Kevin and Kate Strother are filing bankruptcy due to a lawsuit judgement that was filed against them, for what I can only assume, is something dating back to Elite. I know how expensive lawsuits are, and the legal/lawyer fees can drive people to bankruptcy alone. I have seen it. So before people continue to slander a company take heed of the fact that most or all of the people attacking a solvent company, know very little of the facts.


----------



## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

toddsurfs said:


> you mean hard times like having to lose the hummer or the $100k kitchen, the stove is $10k(all in videos they posted on youtube). this doesnt even come close to comparing this crap to people who have lost loved ones to cancer(most recent my grandmother),neighbors ,friends,soldiers to war,disfigured and killed etc. REAL HARD TIMES. not paying your bills = no sympathy from me
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM4NMQZNfLM&NR=1


Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner here.

Go and blow, then when the debt gets to high, file bankruptcy. 

I'm not real sure why anyone would be surprised to hear this.


----------



## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

crow3k said:


> he'll be heere as soon as he get's done cutting Kevins grass


 Now that's funny. I don't care who ya are! Lollll


----------



## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

Traildust. While it may be true that a lot of people don't like him. Do you really think Martin thinks he is a competitor. I mean seriously! Aside from onlinr no other archers give two craps or have even heard of K and K.


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## crow_sniper (Aug 14, 2004)

crow3k said:


> he'll be heere as soon as he get's done cutting kevins grass


:roflmao:


----------



## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

So just so I'm clear. A lot of you think its ok to file bankruptcy so you don't have to pay for something the court found you liable for? Got it. But to me it sounds like theft.


----------



## COATED (Jun 3, 2009)

Our household doesnt make that much..[/QUOTE said:


> you didn't have to tell us...it's pretty obvious.


----------



## traildust (Feb 17, 2011)

I did a screen name change....my post...which were very few didnt carry over....I have been a member on here since 2006.....how bout you?



incendiaerus said:


> So your stating that DeepFried contacted you, thats interesting a guy with 11 posts and so well connected!


----------



## Buckstikker (Dec 29, 2009)

MadBullArchery said:


> So just so I'm clear. A lot of you think its ok to file bankruptcy so you don't have to pay for something the court found you liable for? Got it. But to me it sounds like theft.


There is a reason bankruptcy was created. It is a mechanism to allow people to restructure your debt. Bankruptcy is not something that someone can just choose to do either. A judge has to determine if someone is a viable candidate for bankruptcy, and will determine the level of it, the filers can take. 
If you have never been part of a lawsuit, you won't be able to empathize with the small guy with limited resources that is sued by a big guy with vast resources. In a lot of civil lawsuits, the guy with the most money wins, and drives the small guy to bankruptcy. Again I know very few facts about the instance at hand, but I have first hand knowledge of similar situations. People are so willing to jump on a bandwagon based on face value information, when that face value info is usually just the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## Mctexans (Jul 14, 2010)

Schadenfreude is a very unfortunate character flaw. Beware those who go down that path !!!


Tex


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Buckstikker said:


> I have been part of a lawsuit or two in my career. What you continue to say is K&K Archery cannot pay their bills. This is slander/libel. K&K Archery is, for all you or I know, paying their bills. For all you and I know, K&K Archery is deep in the black financially. Kevin and Kate Strother are filing bankruptcy due to a lawsuit judgement that was filed against them, for what I can only assume, is something dating back to Elite. I know how expensive lawsuits are, and the legal/lawyer fees can drive people to bankruptcy alone. I have seen it. So before people continue to slander a company take heed of the fact that most or all of the people attacking a solvent company, know very little of the facts.


Get real. Im more concerned about those who lose, members/archers here. If someone suing them they must have reason. Your right bankruptcy never about not being able to pay your bills. LOL
DB


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

I never PMed Traildust.... I can promise you Terry Martin has nothing to do with this...

And lets leave Karbon out of this... Ive made snide comments in the Past but Karbon is a good guy. He hasnt posted in this thread so dont bring him into it.


Enjoy this thread folks...

:wave:


----------



## traildust (Feb 17, 2011)

DeepFried said:


> I'll never PM Traildust again.... I can promise you Terry, I had nothing to do with this...


:mg::embara:





:shade:Just mess'n with ya


----------



## GaryZ (Jan 29, 2009)

Garceau said:


> 10 pages withing 24 hours from now.....



Pretty close, you must have ESPN:tongue:


----------



## crow3k (Feb 15, 2011)

hey i think i have espn too :mg:


----------



## wvbowhunter09 (Mar 14, 2009)

crow3k said:


> hey i think i have espn too :mg:


I knew you were going to say that...........I have ESPN 360


----------



## flatlineks (Nov 26, 2009)

Me too , im ready for some football .t::rock:


----------



## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

I love these Kevin threads. I mean this guy is a magnet for failure. He needs to quit trying to run businesses and just be an employee somewhere.


----------



## FCFCharlie (Mar 18, 2010)

Q!! said:


> I love these Kevin threads. I mean this guy is a magnet for failure. He needs to quit trying to run businesses and just be an employee somewhere.


I'd say people that post malicious statements while hiding anonymously behind keyboards are clear failures. It's better to strive and push yourself then to sit the sidelines and provide poorly worded half truth color commentary.


----------



## tnarb (Aug 26, 2006)

People keep drinking the Kool Aid.


----------



## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

FCFCharlie said:


> I'd say people that post malicious statements while hiding anonymously behind keyboards are clear failures. It's better to strive and push yourself then to sit the sidelines and provide poorly worded half truth color comentary.


UH OH, look who just did the same thing.


----------



## BIGONESLURK (Sep 18, 2007)

no one saw this coming hahaha


----------



## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

DeepFried said:


> DB Just want to say Thank You for stopping in. *Always value your opinion.* :wave:


Especially if it agrees with yours! Your probably nicer in person.:thumbs_do


----------



## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

2xR said:


> I am sure DB will feel picked on by my post, but I am using his merely to illustrate the *facts *in this thread and the pending case.
> 
> Kevin and Kate, NOT K&K Archery, are filing Ch. 7 (personal) Bankruptcy. The assets and profits (what there are), of K&K Archery are not part of this case. As stated by others, "the money" from bow sales of K&K Archery are likely going to pay manufacturers, machinists and suppliers of K&K Archery.
> 
> Don't confuse the case, the plantiff(s), or the assets - and don't speak of what you don't know to be factual!


You apparently dont realize that if when they declare and then have to list their assets.They will have to list the company they own as such asset.If the judge who is presiding when this goes to court feels like it.They can go after his company since it will be part of his assets.

Its so ridiculous to hear people cry about anyone saying anything other than we love K&K.You guys really want to go there with saying there are slander laws in this country? well if he feels slandered he can then sue whoever he feels like it.Though it may be a while since they seem to be pretty busy with their own legal troubles and will probably continue to have them for quite a while.


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## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

FCFCharlie said:


> I'd say people that post malicious statements while hiding anonymously behind keyboards are clear failures. It's better to strive and push yourself then to sit the sidelines and provide poorly worded half truth color commentary.


I am not a hater nor do I shoot any of Kevins designs currently. I am just stating t hat trouble seems to follow this guy around on a leash. Tell me I am wrong. 



I didn't say K&K was filing for bankrupcy. Please re-read what I wrote and try again. I was simply making the analysis that trouble seems to always finds the Strothers. All you have to do is look at their business happenings the last few years. Not a great track record. Simple as that.


----------



## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

YetAnotherCoach said:


> From what I know through a friend who is a K&K bow owner, K&K as a company is not filing for bankruptcy, but the guy is filing for personal bankruptcy. To suggest that a company has filed for bankruptcy and it has not, can be a very troubling issue.
> 
> All I can say is, let us not get AT into trouble for a liable lawsuit.


And please don't try to tell me that you believe everything your buddy says about K&K archery simply because he owns a bow. I own Hoyt and PSE currently and don't clain to think I know everything there is to know about those companies simply because I own their bows.


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## tnarb (Aug 26, 2006)

Is this why the run of Bows was called limited Editions?


----------



## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

Why would Mods close this thread? its an archery related issue.If it hurts some peoples feelings,to bad.This isnt for hand holding and to make you feel better about ourselves.Its a site to get info out that could be of value to know.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

FCFCharlie said:


> I'd say people that post malicious statements while hiding anonymously behind keyboards are clear failures. It's better to strive and push yourself then to sit the sidelines and provide poorly worded half truth color commentary.


well said.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

tnarb said:


> People keep drinking the Kool Aid.


Its very tasty kool aid I will admit!


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

tnarb said:


> is this why the run of bows was called limited editions?


lol


----------



## YetAnotherCoach (Jan 20, 2011)

Hey! Relax. I made the comment because I like AT, and just don't want anyone or AT getting into trouble for posting 'false' info which might be sued for liable.

I don't dispute anything you said (with your clarification that is), but 'false'-hood is where the lawyers see if they can make money, not what you and I see in the common sense way.

Cheers!



Q!! said:


> And please don't try to tell me that you believe everything your buddy says about K&K archery simply because he owns a bow. I own Hoyt and PSE currently and don't clain to think I know everything there is to know about those companies simply because I own their bows.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

rand_98201 said:


> Why would Mods close this thread? its an archery related issue.If it hurts some peoples feelings,to bad.This isnt for hand holding and to make you feel better about ourselves.Its a site to get info out that could be of value to know.


Your right, every post to this thread has been nothing but "Archers helping Archers"
Archerytalk ought to think of a new slogan becasue this place has become far far from that .


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

Did someone say football?


----------



## tapout155 (Jan 23, 2010)

bloodtrail1 said:


> Your right, every post to this thread has been nothing but "Archers helping Archers"
> Archerytalk ought to think of a new slogan becasue this place has become far far from that .


Yes and all that dribble posted over on Acherycrap imean Archery A D D I X is so inspiring. All that goes on over there is bashing of anybody that doesnt love Kevin. That and a bunch of grown men holding hands all day long.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

bloodtrail1 said:


> Your right, every post to this thread has been nothing but "Archers helping Archers"
> Archerytalk ought to think of a new slogan becasue this place has become far far from that .


If you don't like it here. Why is it you choose to be a member? Archers help archers here everyday. Because this thread not going your way the forum ruined! Plenty of other archery forums for you.
DB


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## hawgdawg (Sep 8, 2002)

gkonduris said:


> How can you make a successful company to pay your debts off when you get press like this? There are some in the industry that don't want them to succeed. Maybe he's a threat to their business. Just look at the foot print he has in the aworldrchery . Many of us have shot and owned his designs.
> 
> The foot print could mean follow the track record ---company to company.


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

Well the one thing I have learned from all this is that with all the archers hating bankruptcy, I can rest assured that Donald Trump will have no support from the archery community. Thanks for that piece of mind


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> If you don't like it here. Why is it you choose to be a member? Archers help archers here everyday. Because this thread not going your way the forum ruined! Plenty of other archery forums for you.
> DB


Can you read DB?
Where did I say I didnt like it here?
Im stating my opinion, no different than you do!
I can read 100's of your lame posts and give the same crap back to you.


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

bloodtrail1 said:


> Can you read DB?
> Where did I say I didnt like it here?
> Im stating my opinion, no different than you do!
> I can read 100's of your lame posts and give the same crap back to you.


Open forum feel free. I think I read your comment right. "Archerytalk ought to think of a new slogan becasue this place has become far far from that" You got the right to use the ignore button on everyone of my posts. AT makes it awesome for you.
DB


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

backstrap steve............ do they have football in kansas? jk


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

The funny part is that the people that have replied to this thread in an unproductive manner are all the whiny followers and defenders of K&K.If you were one of the people he didnt pay his debt too Im thinking you would be going in a different direction.Since its not you though,hey who cares I guess.The reason Kevin Strothers was banned from AT is probably because he openly backs another forum.That forum is basically a bunch of freaky cultish followers of his.

Some of you may want to check it out.Since AT is no longer archers helping archers to you.You can atleast go over there and believe whatever line of BS is thrown at you and watch all the great youtube videos of K&K driving around in their make believe Hummer.


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## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

rand_98201 said:


> The funny part is that the people that have replied to this thread in an unproductive manner are all the whiny followers and defenders of K&K.If you were one of the people he didnt pay his debt too Im thinking you would be going in a different direction.Since its not you though,hey who cares I guess.The reason Kevin Strothers was banned from AT is probably because he openly backs another forum.That forum is basically a bunch of freaky cultish followers of his.
> 
> Some of you may want to check it out.Since AT is no longer archers helping archers to you.You can atleast go over there and believe whatever line of BS is thrown at you and watch all the great youtube videos of K&K driving around in their make believe Hummer.



A lot of these guys defending him really seem to be cultish followers as you say. Kinda funny really. It's really sweet that they are having a bromance with Kevin.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

vhunter said:


> So who gave you the info?


Im not at liberty to divulge that information.


----------



## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

I don't want to fan the flames on a thread like this. I don't. But this thread got me to check out the "K&K forum". All of the defenders here on this thread are cult members there it seems. ukey: 

How does a screwup get a cult following like that? Or do they just have the hots for the old Martin girl?


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## jeffrey1 (Feb 4, 2009)

Why do any of you really care? People over there are followers and the people over here are akin to Nazi's. Pick one or the other and enjoy it. 

PS......Its called sarcasm


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

Seig Heil!!


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

crow3k said:


> he'll be heere as soon as he get's done cutting Kevins grass


Funny. 
Is that you lonnie?


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

DeepFried said:


> Im not at liberty to divulge that information.


Come on now.................you are at liberty to bust someone out with a quickness on a public forum but, you won't say who you got it from????
Although I could care less either way and am happy to have cancelled my K&K order, it sounds rancid when you state it like that.


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## crow3k (Feb 15, 2011)

atennishu said:


> backstrap steve............ do they have football in kansas? jk



are you kidding me
when did Kansas get a football team?


----------



## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

Buster of Xs said:


> I don't want to fan the flames on a thread like this. I don't. But this thread got me to check out the "K&K forum". All of the defenders here on this thread are cult members there it seems. ukey:
> 
> How does a screwup get a cult following like that? Or do they just have the hots for the old Martin girl?


Now that is funny !!


----------



## crow3k (Feb 15, 2011)

Karbon said:


> Funny.
> Is that you lonnie?



it's not Lonnie sorry Karbon but for what ever reason these K&K threads drive me crazy didn't mean to take it out on you sir 

i offer my apology :embara:


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## happyhunter62 (Dec 31, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> Why would Mods close this thread? its an archery related issue.If it hurts some peoples feelings,to bad.This isnt for hand holding and to make you feel better about ourselves.Its a site to get info out that could be of value to know.


then why is other bow manufactures threads closed in just a few short hrs. and i wont call any names but if you think really hard you know who i'm talking about.and i'm not defending what kevin is doing is right but i think all this is kind of hyprocritical that all these people run this guy in the dirt pointing out what he does wrong like they are Jesus Christ! nobody is perfect but God.


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## Olydog (Sep 1, 2010)

traildust said:


> :mg::embara:
> 
> 
> :shade:just mess'n with ya


*credibility denied!!!!!*


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## K9-1 (Mar 22, 2009)

Kevin & Karma Archery???


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

DeepFried said:


> Im not at liberty to divulge that information.


Interesting theory - iof the old addage holds true "any publicity is good publicity"

Maybe KS himself leaked it to him......with a candlestick in the library!


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

DeepFried said:


> Im not at liberty to divulge that information.


Why not? What are you trying to hide? Are you trying to protect the godfather himself? That's just my guess on were you got your info from.


----------



## traildust (Feb 17, 2011)

No more than the other 400 post on this thread...LOL



Olydog said:


> *credibility denied!!!!!*


----------



## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

There t.v. in kansas and football everywhere else.


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

I read a couple post that indicate some folks think Kevin and Kate won't have to pay the judgement because they filed bankrupcy. This is no longer the case in this country. The bankrupcy laws have chaned in the last couple years. They probably were advised to file so the debt from the judgement could be deferred over time. If they did not file the judgement could be executed against personal assets.(home, cars, furniture,etc.)
Because they have visible means(very visible it seems) of support the Judge will determine a payment plan to eliminate the debt since the judgement does not seem to be contested.
It was good advice by their attorney to save assets.


----------



## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

archer58 in pa said:


> I read a couple post that indicate some folks think Kevin and Kate won't have to pay the judgement because they filed bankrupcy. This is no longer the case in this country. The bankrupcy laws have chaned in the last couple years. They probably were advised to file so the debt from the judgement could be deferred over time. If they did not file the judgement could be executed against personal assets.(home, cars, furniture,etc.)
> Because they have visible means(very visible it seems) of support the Judge will determine a payment plan to eliminate the debt since the judgement does not seem to be contested.
> It was good advice by their attorney to save assets.


Your right my lefty friend. Any judgment that was levied against them in a court of law still have to be paid. I think the problem they have is more with the legal bills that SA left them, that they were supposed to pay by the contract they had with Kevin. And for all those who think I'm a Kevin fan boy, read some of my other post here and on other forums. I say what I think, and I think this thread was just stirred up by somebody hiding in the shadows who is to afraid to speak there own mind so they fill me friend Jabs head with them knowing he will post them for him. At least Kevin speaks his own mind, even though most of the time he puts is foot in it.


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

archer58 in pa said:


> I read a couple post that indicate some folks think Kevin and Kate won't have to pay the judgement because they filed bankrupcy. This is no longer the case in this country. The bankrupcy laws have chaned in the last couple years. They probably were advised to file so the debt from the judgement could be deferred over time. If they did not file the judgement could be executed against personal assets.(home, cars, furniture,etc.)
> Because they have visible means(very visible it seems) of support the Judge will determine a payment plan to eliminate the debt since the judgement does not seem to be contested.
> It was good advice by their attorney to save assets.


Do we know who filed a judgement lawsuit against him? Any ideas why they filed. 
DB


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## 91bravo (Oct 31, 2009)

I was just wondering why everything Strother related is always a million pages long???


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Daniel Boone said:


> Do we know who filed a judgement lawsuit against him? Any ideas why they filed.
> DB


Someone correct me if im wrong... But i believe it was an investor named Ron Thomas. He put money up for Kevin and/or Kate to start Elite....


----------



## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

DeepFried said:


> Someone correct me if im wrong... But i believe it was an investor named Ron Thomas. He put money up for Kevin and/or Kate to start Elite....


This is what I understood as well.


----------



## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

DeepFried said:


> Someone correct me if im wrong... But i believe it was an investor named Ron Thomas. He put money up for Kevin and/or Kate to start Elite....


I'm not sure about the name but it was an investor from that time frame.


----------



## houndhamrick (Sep 30, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> The funny part is that the people that have replied to this thread in an unproductive manner are all the whiny followers and defenders of K&K.If you were one of the people he didnt pay his debt too Im thinking you would be going in a different direction.Since its not you though,hey who cares I guess.The reason Kevin Strothers was banned from AT is probably because he openly backs another forum.That forum is basically a bunch of freaky cultish followers of his.
> 
> Some of you may want to check it out.Since AT is no longer archers helping archers to you.You can atleast go over there and believe whatever line of BS is thrown at you and watch all the great youtube videos of K&K driving around in their make believe Hummer.


You think your post are IN A PRODUCTIVE MANNER? Since I and many others kept tabs on the K&k threads from day 1 makes us Freaky cultish followers? Really?? How about being excited and interested in the bow?? Why would you or anyone else for that matter be interested in Kevins personal matters?? This is nothing but pure slander of Kevin Strother

AT Mods, Why are you letting this slandering/bashing thread continue? This AT forum should be held accountable for this Slander that is going on if this topic is not shut down


----------



## flatlineks (Nov 26, 2009)

sure isnt the jayhawks!!! Lol!!! Lol!!!


----------



## Waynebow (Mar 9, 2010)

DeepFried said:


> Someone correct me if im wrong... But i believe it was an investor named Ron Thomas. He put money up for Kevin and/or Kate to start Elite....


And he(creditor) got a judgment from a court of law listing Kate as a debtor, which likely allowed him(creditor) to file a involuntary petition for chapter 7, which will require a form or a "statement of current monthly income and means test calculation for chapter 7." Or in laymans terms...How many hummers and diamonds you got? 
Any way this plays out it ain't good for K&K as credit will be hard to come by.


----------



## TOOL (Apr 11, 2006)

Why does everyone keep saying slander? I assume you all mean libel, but I still don't see how public records fall into that. What falsehood is being reported? 

I supposed "defamation of character" could be interpreted by some due to vilification or scandalmongering. But even that is a stretch.


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## Waynebow (Mar 9, 2010)

TOOL said:


> Why does everyone keep saying slander? I assume you all mean libel, but I still don't see how public records fall into that. What falsehood is being reported?
> 
> I supposed "defamation of character" could be interpreted by some due to vilification or scandalmongering. But even that is a stretch.


Because they literally do NOT know the difference or what is required for the defamation to occur. Sure makes them credible does it not?


----------



## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

houndhamrick said:


> AT Mods, Why are you letting this slandering/bashing thread continue? This AT forum should be held accountable for this Slander that is going on if this topic is not shut down


Like a cry out in the middle of the ocean, given that this is now on page 14. Train is rolling down the tracks, fully loaded. No stopping it now. I would assume that if they were going to shut it down, it would have happended long before now.

Anyone have an over/under bet on how many more pages this is going to go...I am guessing, at this pace, 22 pages before Friday 3:00 pm Eastern Time. Will lose pace over the weekend.


----------



## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

houndhamrick said:


> You think your post are IN A PRODUCTIVE MANNER? Since I and many others kept tabs on the K&k threads from day 1 makes us Freaky cultish followers? Really?? How about being excited and interested in the bow?? Why would you or anyone else for that matter be interested in Kevins personal matters?? This is nothing but pure slander of Kevin Strother
> 
> AT Mods, Why are you letting this slandering/bashing thread continue? This AT forum should be held accountable for this Slander that is going on if this topic is not shut down


LMAO,thank you for very effectively proving my point.How is something that is public record slander? and if Kevin didnt want his personal life discussed then he shouldnt post those videos of him and Kate on youtube and then tell people to watch them.I guess thats ok though.If Kevins wishes to sue me for slander then he has that right.Just like the people that him and his wife hose for money have the right and apprently have been deemed it in court to get their money.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

DeepFried said:


> Someone correct me if im wrong... But i believe it was an investor named Ron Thomas. He put money up for Kevin and/or Kate to start Elite....


Thanks, now it makes perfect sense.
DB


----------



## hawgdawg (Sep 8, 2002)

DeepFried said:


> Someone correct me if im wrong... But i believe it was an investor named Ron Thomas. He put money up for Kevin and/or Kate to start Elite....


If this is actually what happened, can't imagine for the life of me that he would think the investor wouldn't want his money back. Seems like another business dealing that wasn't hndled by Kevin very smart. I don't doubt his ability to design bows and maybe they will work through this mess but to me would be for him to do the right thing and pay the judgement by whatever terms the courts set up.


----------



## gkonduris (Sep 10, 2007)

DeepFried said:


> Someone correct me if im wrong... But i believe it was an investor named Ron Thomas. He put money up for Kevin and/or Kate to start Elite....


Finish the story, you know it doesn't end there, right?


----------



## gkonduris (Sep 10, 2007)

DeepFried said:


> Someone correct me if im wrong... But i believe it was an investor named Ron Thomas. He put money up for Kevin and/or Kate to start Elite....


Finish the story, you know it doesn't end there, right?


----------



## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

gkonduris said:


> Finish the story, you know it doesn't end there, right?


Yes, because he knows ALL the intimate details of the lawsuit and this whole mess......


----------



## Angry American (May 5, 2011)

Still going! I can see why the young and the restless and why Dallas stayed on the air so long.. 

Who the Hell cares!!!We have been down this road so many times with these people and will as long as people Put their faith In them... 

Move on for god sakes.. A veteran Posts from Iraq and it doesnt get near the attention this pimped out soap opera has recieved...AND THIS IS ROUND 2


----------



## 2xR (Dec 11, 2007)

rand_98201 said:


> You apparently dont realize that if when they declare and then have to list their assets.They will have to list the company they own as such asset.If the judge who is presiding when this goes to court feels like it.They can go after his company since it will be part of his assets.
> 
> Its so ridiculous to hear people cry about anyone saying anything other than we love K&K.You guys really want to go there with saying there are slander laws in this country? well if he feels slandered he can then sue whoever he feels like it.Though it may be a while since they seem to be pretty busy with their own legal troubles and will probably continue to have them for quite a while.


Actually Rand, the judge can't do whatever he feels like (despite what the bleedig heart liberals would like to believe). This is why we have a Constitution, the Bill of Rights, Amendments to the Constitution and case law. It is called checks and balances. It is also the reason companies organize under the legal protection of a LLC, Limited Liability Corporation.

As pointed out below...




archer58 in pa said:


> I read a couple post that indicate some folks think Kevin and Kate won't have to pay the judgement because they filed bankrupcy. This is no longer the case in this country. The bankrupcy laws have chaned in the last couple years. They probably were advised to file so the debt from the judgement could be deferred over time. If they did not file the judgement could be executed against personal assets.(home, cars, furniture,etc.)
> Because they have visible means(very visible it seems) of support the Judge will determine a payment plan to eliminate the debt since the judgement does not seem to be contested.
> It was good advice by their attorney to save assets.


----------



## Angry American (May 5, 2011)

Gotta Love The Libs..The constitution doesn't mean **** anymore. We are losing the Bill of rights.. The whole concept is being Wiped out by the Libs .


----------



## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

traildust said:


> I did a screen name change....my post...which were very few didnt carry over....I have been a member on here since 2006.....how bout you?



No, I'm pretty new. With my lack of work ethic these days, there's more time to sit in-front of the keyboard. :wave3:


It should be noted that if your in business long-enough you will be sued. It happened to my grandfather three times, and it's happen to me once.


----------



## Waynebow (Mar 9, 2010)

Except it was a right wing conservative that passed the new bankruptcy laws into effect in 2005.....DOH
Maybe I am weird, but weaseling out on debt is about as liberal as I can imagine, so yep, Libs do ruin everything. lol


----------



## 2xR (Dec 11, 2007)

Hey, we all make a mistake every now and then Wayne... 

Just don't let it get out intothe public or you will be persecuted and flamed here on AT... :mg: Sorry, couldn't resist...


----------



## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

The next time you are stopped at a check point you might wonder if its just the libs that dont seem to get what the constitution says


----------



## Waynebow (Mar 9, 2010)

2xR said:


> Hey, we all make a mistake every now and then Wayne...
> 
> Just don't let it get out intothe public or you will be persecuted and flamed here on AT... :mg: Sorry, couldn't resist...


By mistakes you mean skate with a 1/4 million your supposed to repay? yea I could never look in the mirror again, cause I have integrity.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

Waynebow said:


> Except it was a right wing conservative that passed the new bankruptcy laws into effect in 2005.....DOH


Please try not to wonder t:, it doesn't matter who you vote for with a two party system; as Jesse Venture,Governor of Minnesota would say, "they are best of friends behind the camera, because they are paid to vote by the same corporations."


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

atennishu said:


> The next time you are stopped at a check point you might wonder if its just the libs that dont seem to get what the constitution says


Well kansas might not have a football team worth talking about but at least our neighbors to the south have O.S.U. Go Cowboys!!!!


----------



## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

backstrap steve said:


> Well kansas might not have a football team worth talking about but at least our neighbors to the south have O.S.U. Go Cowboys!!!!


You had to throw something orange in there didnt you?


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## meyerske (Dec 26, 2004)

This is the most classless thread that I've ever seen in all of my years on AT. Congratulations on a new low. Unsubscribed.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

meyerske said:


> This is the most classless thread that I've ever seen in all of my years on AT. Congratulations on a new low. Unsubscribed.


You got that right.


----------



## toby lester (Oct 15, 2010)

meyerske said:


> This is the most classless thread that I've ever seen in all of my years on AT. Congratulations on a new low. Unsubscribed.


archer's helping archers!!!!


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## Beaver (May 25, 2005)

The reason this thread dwells on the first page is because of the way K&K chose to market itself. When you enter the new social media world of business you better have a plan in place from the get go that promotes you and your company as prudently as possible and in an exceedingly timely manner. Do not start this enterprise without having a web page, blog, Facebook account, and anything and everything that helps you to better promote your product. You declare your design better than others for an assortment of reasons. You have a haughty egotistical attitude about your product that some have embraced while others have looked on with bewilderment asking why do some act as if this is anything atypical or more importantly unique. Now on top of a horribly flawed business plan that has been coupled with some of the worst personality flaws to hit the social media business we have come to find that ownership is not able to sustain itself personally. This is absolutely a dynamic that anyone interested in this company needs and should understand. This is a very small company that is unquestionably affected by the owner’s lack of financial responsibility. When your ego runs you and your company this is the fallout that you will feel when things go wrong. Integrity, some seem to be ok to look the other way, but those also seem to be the folks that bought into this ruse.


----------



## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

well Beav, I think ya nailed it!


----------



## TOOL (Apr 11, 2006)

I was just glancing through this:
http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyBasics/Chapter7.aspx

and it seems to my simple brain that someone who files for chapter 7 no longer has to pay the debt. It doesn't seem to mention any restructuring of finances and payment schedules. If someone in the know wants to explain it to me, it would be appreciated. There were a couple of comments about this not being a way to avoid debt collection, but I'm not seeing it yet.


----------



## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

houndhamrick said:


> AT Mods, Why are you letting this slandering/bashing thread continue? This AT forum should be held accountable for this Slander that is going on if this topic is not shut down


I feel really dirty for reading this thread. I feel even dirtier that I actually went to the YouTube video links to see his kitchen that was supposed to be so great. And I really hit rock bottom when I watched a video of them driving to TJ Max. I kept waiting for something to happen. Nope, just them cooking and riding in a car. WTH? Do fanboys really watch this stuff? What is the point of making such a video? 

BUT my favorite part is to hear them totally slam both UPS and Delta Airlines. Sooooo, they had a bad experience with a company and called them out on the internet. But hey, that's OK because it's KS. But goodness forbid you should ever say anything bad about his products based upon your own personal experience because that's.....well....different I guess.

Maybe Delta and UPS fanboys should whine and cry foul on Kevin.:darkbeer:

And by they way, I just skimmed the videos and caught that part. I was bored in the first 15 seconds of watching them cook and drive.


----------



## Beaver (May 25, 2005)

Would you still invest in Apple if Steve Jobs walked away. How do you feel about Google this week if Eric Schmidt leaves Google as Obama's top choice for Commerce Secretary. The business of business is a nasty, and everything, I mean everything is analyzed. This is nothing, the corporate world would have chewed this guy up and spit him out years ago.


----------



## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

Beaver said:


> The reason this thread dwells on the first page is because of the way K&K chose to market itself. When you enter the new social media world of business you better have a plan in place from the get go that promotes you and your company as prudently as possible and in an exceedingly timely manner. Do not start this enterprise without having a web page, blog, Facebook account, and anything and everything that helps you to better promote your product. You declare your design better than others for an assortment of reasons. You have a haughty egotistical attitude about your product that some have embraced while others have looked on with bewilderment asking why do some act as if this is anything atypical or more importantly unique. Now on top of a horribly flawed business plan that has been coupled with some of the worst personality flaws to hit the social media business we have come to find that ownership is not able to sustain itself personally. This is absolutely a dynamic that anyone interested in this company needs and should understand. This is a very small company that is unquestionably affected by the owner’s lack of financial responsibility. When your ego runs you and your company this is the fallout that you will feel when things go wrong. Integrity, some seem to be ok to look the other way, but those also seem to be the folks that bought into this ruse.


Post of the year nominee.


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

meyerske said:


> This is the most classless thread that I've ever seen in all of my years on AT. Congratulations on a new low. Unsubscribed.


your kidding me right why is it tasteless because they were hoarding tons of threads in january and now there tanked people should back up there stuff before they spout there stuff i would love to try a kk bow but why would ya now?


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## Fiber Guy (Mar 14, 2006)

wow had to catch up again. you guys are typing sonsofguns. Question for all the attornies and those that play one on the internet. If Kate and kevins personal filings are not company related then why was a judgement issued against Kate Strother and not the company by the last lawsuit talked about here but the lawsuit was specifically for the previous company. This is what kevin said on here


Kevin Strother1 said:


> This is very old news, the judgment is from Elite, the debt was to be assumed when Kate sold Elite to J2 but never was paid.
> 
> The judgment has been in effect for a few years.
> 
> Just for all of you , there was no money exchanged when J2 bought Elite, just debt was assumed, most which was never paid by J2.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

​


:wink:


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

Beaver said:


> The reason this thread dwells on the first page is because of the way K&K chose to market itself.
> When you enter the new social media world of business you better have a plan
> Do not start this enterprise without having a web page, blog, Facebook account
> You declare your design better than others for an assortment of reasons.
> ...



If memory serves, the business was started with an:

*Idea* - I've done it before, 
*goal* - build 1500 bows, 
*promise* - it's going to be so kewl, two models to choose from
*life time warranty*
*deposit* - to place an order (show me the money)

*manufacturing*
*assembly / certification*
*testing*
*delivery*

I believe your correct, the business plan, website and contact info may have came after.


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## Beaver (May 25, 2005)

Wow, 0 out of how many is :mg:



incendiaerus said:


> If memory serves, the business was started with an:
> 
> *Idea* - I've done it before, bad idea it was never that impressive
> *goal* - build 1500 bows, small, very small, don't affend anyone
> ...


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

is somebody following throught on the leagality from elite or is this leggit or horse poop im not sure seems like its possibl seeing they kinda vanished from at and by the way is there web running


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## Beaver (May 25, 2005)

nothing new here



incendiaerus said:


> If memory serves, the business was started with an:
> 
> *Idea* - I've done it before,
> *goal* - build 1500 bows,
> ...


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

Beaver said:


> The reason this thread dwells on the first page is because of the way K&K chose to market itself. When you enter the new social media world of business you better have a plan in place from the get go that promotes you and your company as prudently as possible and in an exceedingly timely manner. Do not start this enterprise without having a web page, blog, Facebook account, and anything and everything that helps you to better promote your product. You declare your design better than others for an assortment of reasons. You have a haughty egotistical attitude about your product that some have embraced while others have looked on with bewilderment asking why do some act as if this is anything atypical or more importantly unique. Now on top of a horribly flawed business plan that has been coupled with some of the worst personality flaws to hit the social media business we have come to find that ownership is not able to sustain itself personally. This is absolutely a dynamic that anyone interested in this company needs and should understand. This is a very small company that is unquestionably affected by the owner’s lack of financial responsibility. When your ego runs you and your company this is the fallout that you will feel when things go wrong. Integrity, some seem to be ok to look the other way, but those also seem to be the folks that bought into this ruse.


Good post.


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## KOZMAN4907 (Sep 23, 2004)

:happy1:


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## catsniper67 (Jan 5, 2011)

Beaver said:


> The reason this thread dwells on the first page is because of the way K&K chose to market itself. When you enter the new social media world of business you better have a plan in place from the get go that promotes you and your company as prudently as possible and in an exceedingly timely manner. Do not start this enterprise without having a web page, blog, Facebook account, and anything and everything that helps you to better promote your product. You declare your design better than others for an assortment of reasons. You have a haughty egotistical attitude about your product that some have embraced while others have looked on with bewilderment asking why do some act as if this is anything atypical or more importantly unique. Now on top of a horribly flawed business plan that has been coupled with some of the worst personality flaws to hit the social media business we have come to find that ownership is not able to sustain itself personally. This is absolutely a dynamic that anyone interested in this company needs and should understand. This is a very small company that is unquestionably affected by the owner’s lack of financial responsibility. When your ego runs you and your company this is the fallout that you will feel when things go wrong. Integrity, some seem to be ok to look the other way, but those also seem to be the folks that bought into this ruse.


 Absolutely!


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

My wife is a very intelligent drug chemist and crime scene investigator with more brains in her little finger then I have in my whole body. She watches and loves the real housewives of (insert city name). I always shake my head when she turns it on, and say I can't believe she watches this stuff. Nothing but hyped drama and people saying hurtful things to each other. 16 pages later I owe her an apology


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

2xR said:


> Actually Rand, the judge can't do whatever he feels like (despite what the bleedig heart liberals would like to believe). This is why we have a Constitution, the Bill of Rights, Amendments to the Constitution and case law. It is called checks and balances. It is also the reason companies organize under the legal protection of a LLC, Limited Liability Corporation.
> 
> As pointed out below...


Im not sure how many of you have started a company.The thing is when you start a new company and you get your suppliers lined up and so on your company doesnt have enough credit.So you then have to go off of your own SS# and credit.So that when you and if you default they can then go after you personally.LLC offers some protection to this yes.

It does not however offer you complete protection against legal action.


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## Beaver (May 25, 2005)

rand_98201 said:


> Im not sure how many of you have started a company.The thing is when you start a new company and you get your suppliers lined up and so on your company doesnt have enough credit.So you then have to go off of your own SS# and credit.So that when you and if you default they can then go after you personally.LLC offers some protection to this yes.
> 
> It does not however offer you complete protection against legal action.


Entrepreneurs commonly encounter compilations managing their cash flow as a result of seasonal credit demands or time gaps between capital and revenue. This is particularly true of business start-ups during their early stages of development when they have not diversified (lets go ahead and put 1500 units here) enough to generate a constant positive cash flow. Once inventory has been purchased, product built, and shipped it is necessary to ride out this cycle until accounts receivable have been collected. Without sufficient working capital, a serious cash flow problem can and in this case will likely develop. These types of cash flow problems have forced many entrepreneurs to close down businesses that were making money on paper, but just ran out of cash. You have to PLAN for seasonal credits and debits, and have monies on hand that allow you to work through that plan. Starting a business is one step, maintaining a business is quite another.


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

Beaver said:


> Entrepreneurs commonly encounter compilations managing their cash flow as a result of seasonal credit demands or time gaps between capital and revenue. This is particularly true of business start-ups during their early stages of development when they have not diversified (lets go ahead and put 1500 units here) enough to generate a constant positive cash flow. Once inventory has been purchased, product built, and shipped it is necessary to ride out this cycle until accounts receivable have been collected. Without sufficient working capital, a serious cash flow problem can and in this case will likely develop. These types of cash flow problems have forced many entrepreneurs to close down businesses that were making money on paper, but just ran out of cash. You have to PLAN for seasonal credits and debits, and have monies on hand that allow you to work through that plan. Starting a business is one step, maintaining a business is quite another.


I completely agree,and when we're talking a small start up such as this with an amount owing that they have.There is no way their going to have working capital after all is said and done.


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## BlueMtnHntr (Jul 19, 2010)

I wish Kevin and Kate the best with this and make it out. Its to bad it happened and its to bad people had to make it global. Like said above its a personal matter. I know many farmers that have hit bankruptcy within the first 2 year of starting, its not their business that fell, it was their personal account. And still today they are farming, just it was a rough start. A family business takes sacrifice and sometimes it takes a toll at home more than the business. You dont know what goes on in their personal life and it should be left at that. Kevin and Kate i wish you the best.


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

BlueMtnHntr said:


> I wish Kevin and Kate the best with this and make it out. Its to bad it happened and its to bad people had to make it global. Like said above its a personal matter. I know many farmers that have hit bankruptcy within the first 2 year of starting, its not their business that fell, it was their personal account. And still today they are farming, just it was a rough start. A family business takes sacrifice and sometimes it takes a toll at home more than the business. You dont know what goes on in their personal life and it should be left at that. Kevin and Kate i wish you the best.


So the fact he makes his personal life public by his own choice is ok? So he gets to just show everyone what he wants and when reality is discussed then oh no we cant talk about that.Its to personal.Farmers are not selling a product that they have to warrnty for years afterwards.Nor do most of the farmers I have known and know have past business deals coming back at them because of their poor business ethics and choices.


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## BlueMtnHntr (Jul 19, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> So the fact he makes his personal life public by his own choice is ok? So he gets to just show everyone what he wants and when reality is discussed then oh no we cant talk about that.Its to personal.Farmers are not selling a product that they have to warrnty for years afterwards.Nor do most of the farmers I have known and know have past business deals coming back at them because of their poor business ethics and choices.


Im not trying trying to beat down anything that has been said here. There has been lots of valid points on both sides people are taking over K&K. Im just saying its too bad any family has to claim bankruptcy, both embarrassing that it came to that, and even more embarrassing that the world knows it. Im just saying K&K didn't claim it. I was just using farming as an example. And yes farmers do market their product for years to come and warranty it. Many fruit farmers create a market through a packing plant that sells their product. They sign a contract for certain amount of years to stay with this company to sell and distribute their product and to ensure they will produce and grow for years to come. And many farmers have also had ordeals that came back to haunt them because of previous companies they have dealt with and have not kept up to par.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

BlueMtnHntr said:


> I know many farmers that have hit bankruptcy within the first 2 year of starting, its not their business that fell, it was their personal account.



Normally the business will succeed or fail within 5-years.


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## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

i actually think it has been enlightening. i had no idea who these 2 where 3 days ago, curiousity got the best of me wondering how these people felt so sorry for k. and k.
they bash bowtech, delta,usps and a coffe company(for those who say slander,yes they are guilty not us). they post awful videos of there 10k stove, hummer ,jewlery,etc. 
Am i mad they have more stuff than me(for now) i say not even close. cuz that $10k stove is gonna burn their little hinnies, its called a budget, maybe they should try one.
And the subject of karma- for "picking on" these 2,lets hope there is such a thing, we are not the ones who have to worry .
BUT I AM CURIOUS TO WHO WOULD ENJOY YOUR MONEY LONGER, A CRACKHEAD OR THESE SELF SERVING BONEHEADS. you notice i said YOUR money


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

toddsurfs said:


> i actually think it has been enlightening. i had no idea who these 2 where 3 days ago, curiousity got the best of me wondering how these people felt so sorry for k. and k.
> they bash bowtech, delta,usps and a coffe company(for those who say slander,yes they are guilty not us). they post awful videos of there 10k stove, hummer ,jewlery,etc.
> Am i mad they have more stuff than me(for now) i say not even close. cuz that $10k stove is gonna burn their little hinnies, its called a budget, maybe they should try one.
> And the subject of karma- for "picking on" these 2,lets hope there is such a thing, we are not the ones who have to worry .
> BUT I AM CURIOUS TO WHO WOULD ENJOY YOUR MONEY LONGER, A CRACKHEAD OR THESE SELF SERVING BONEHEADS. you notice i said YOUR money


Wow... Very to the point... :clap:


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

I wish Kevin and Kate the best. I hope they learn something from this.


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## Backstrapz (Jan 19, 2011)

This stuff is like Like crack cocaine. With me not caring either way I find myself catching up on this thread for amusement. Yes there are some good points by both sides along with alot of mumbo jumbo. Thanks for the read while I finish the morning coffee.


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## Christopher67 (Nov 13, 2009)

Beaver said:


> The reason this thread dwells on the first page is because of the way K&K chose to market itself. When you enter the new social media world of business you better have a plan in place from the get go that promotes you and your company as prudently as possible and in an exceedingly timely manner. Do not start this enterprise without having a web page, blog, Facebook account, and anything and everything that helps you to better promote your product. You declare your design better than others for an assortment of reasons. You have a haughty egotistical attitude about your product that some have embraced while others have looked on with bewilderment asking why do some act as if this is anything atypical or more importantly unique. Now on top of a horribly flawed business plan that has been coupled with some of the worst personality flaws to hit the social media business we have come to find that ownership is not able to sustain itself personally. This is absolutely a dynamic that anyone interested in this company needs and should understand. This is a very small company that is unquestionably affected by the owner’s lack of financial responsibility. When your ego runs you and your company this is the fallout that you will feel when things go wrong. Integrity, some seem to be ok to look the other way, but those also seem to be the folks that bought into this ruse.




Great post & i agree, possibly the best post in this whole thread.


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## alks456 (Apr 21, 2010)

Wonder about all put in design, math/physics, tests and everything to make 
a new line of bows, then to have such start - doubtful they don't understand this.
So putting forward the worst about the situation may be premature 
at least.


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## elkman6x6 (Apr 16, 2004)

What a suprise another 16 page thread about the biggest joke in the industry


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## elkman6x6 (Apr 16, 2004)

I wonder how long their limbs are going to be "proprietary"? LOL!


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

alks456 said:


> Wonder about all put in design, math/physics, tests and everything to make
> a new line of bows, then to have such start - doubtful they don't understand this.
> So putting forward the worst about the situation may be premature
> at least.


Huh??? Can't make heads or tails of what you're saying.


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## alks456 (Apr 21, 2010)

May be premature to expect the worst outcome for this situation, 
as they likely won't ruin their new bows line and name in
bows manufacturing.


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## alks456 (Apr 21, 2010)

CdBurner said:


> Huh??? Can't make heads or tails of what you're saying.


By the way, do you have new K&K or Darton in stock?


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## ozzz (Jul 30, 2010)

Im relatively new here and this Kevin Strother soap opera is already pretty boring to me to be honest.


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

ozzz said:


> Im relatively new here and this Kevin Strother soap opera is already pretty boring to me to be honest.


It's not near as interesting anymore without him getting on here and acting like an idiot. He was probably his own worst nightmare when it came to public relations. The only people who were going to buy a bow from him were the ones who got excited when he put pictures of his forearms on here. Some people would have bought anything he was selling.


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## South Man (Jul 12, 2008)

ozzz said:


> Im relatively new here and this Kevin Strother soap opera is already pretty boring to me to be honest.


Hang around it will get even more interesting!


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## Dan Zawacki (Apr 17, 2010)

> May be premature to expect the worst outcome for this situation,
> as they likely won't ruin their new bows line and name in
> bows manufacturing.


It's a bit too late for that! I know for a fact that I am by far and away not the only one who avoided buying a K&K because of Mr Strother's reputation in the industry. 

To be perfectly fair, I don't know either of the Strothers personally. Facing the very frighteningly real threat of a bankruptcy myself, I can feel for them, and on a personal level, I really do wish them better luck going forward. 

However, with this much controversy and drama centering around such a small blip in the overall industry, there has to be reason. Whether the reasons are related to product design, or business administration, or financial mismanagement, or anything else for that matter is to a large number of us irrelevant. You cannot present yourself as the personal center of a manufacturer, put a front on the company that looks like a self portrait, and let the industry as a whole understand that this company, and indeed, the product it produces are your own personal brainchild, and then not expect that your personal financial ruin is going to be of no interest to potential customers.

This is just the latest chapter in a long, dramatic saga of a pariah figure in the industry. Kevin may be an incredible archer, a very talented designer and engineer, hell, he may even be a bow creation genius. There are a great number of us who will never know first hand whether or not any of those things are true. Why? because there's no dealer network. No bows in the shops. No place for us to go test one out and find out if its a design that fits us well. 

Even if there were, there's been enough drama, controversy, and ruin in this man's wake, that many of us still wouldn't buy. Be that for personal reasons, or a lack of professional faith in the ability of a company so run to stand behind its products long term is rather beside the point. The end result is still the same, in that we don't buy.

The loyal following may well buy without a demo and a credible reason to believe the company will be available and willing to help with problems down the road. The rest of us will not. 

Figures at the center of drama like this are very poorly suited to starting a new endeavor to produce a product in the market where the drama is played out. From a professional perspective, Kevin would have been better off working as a design engineer at a larger company, or, if he must start another company, do it behind a front of investors and keep his own personal branding off the company image, and his own drama clear and free from the administration of the business.

This latest chapter may seem to some to be too personal, and not business or product related. However, the Strothers personal branding and preferences are engraved on every facet of the company, its media (such as it is) and its product. Personal business has been outed, disclosed, and discussed by the principals of the company in direct relation to the company and its product. The available media includes a video of Kevin shooting his product and some competitor's product, and offering up personal opinions on things as personally subjective as asthetics. 

When that is combined with the newness of the startup, and the LLC nature of the company (as opposed to a safer articles of incorporation) which can, under certain circumstances be pegged directly to the personal finances of the principals, you have a situation where the personal financial buisiness of the Strothers is entirely appropriate for use in judging whether or no to put ones hard earned dollars into the product they offer.

So, getting back to the beginning, the reputation is already cast in cement. There are a huge number of us who look askance at this and say to ourselves that there is no lack of great bows from which to choose. We certainly don't need to drop this kind of money on a product offered by this guy. He may be the salt of the earth, but many of us just have no money and time to waste finding out.


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## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

CdBurner said:


> No need for popcorn. This thread is about done.


...


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

Dan Z.

Great post !


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## link06 (Mar 3, 2008)

WOW, what a bunch of drama on this thread! I'm still trying to figure out why alot of you feel the need to personally attack Kevin and Kate every chance you get, like a bunch of spoiled school kids? If you haven't purchased a K&K or don't plan on it, than anything K&K related has nothing to do with you! I don't think I have ever seen a larger showing of childish, selfish, and insecure posts than what I've seen on this bashing thread. It's really sad! I hope to reach perfection like alot of you who are throwing stones! Their are so many that are just hoping K&K fails so they can feel better about themselves and their schoolgirl posts. SAD SAD SAD
Call me a fanboy or whatever you want, I don't care! Truth is I have owned bows from all manufacturers over the last couple years, I just happen to own a K&K at the moment and really like everything about the bows performance/specs. Flame away!


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

link06 said:


> WOW, what a bunch of drama on this thread! I'm still trying to figure out why alot of you feel the need to personally attack Kevin and Kate every chance you get, like a bunch of spoiled school kids? If you haven't purchased a K&K or don't plan on it, than anything K&K related has nothing to do with you! I don't think I have ever seen a larger showing of childish, selfish, and insecure posts than what I've seen on this bashing thread. It's really sad! I hope to reach perfection like alot of you who are throwing stones! Their are so many that are just hoping K&K fails so they can feel better about themselves and their schoolgirl posts. SAD SAD SAD
> Call me a fanboy or whatever you want, I don't care! Truth is I have owned bows from all manufacturers over the last couple years, I just happen to own a K&K at the moment and really like everything about the bows performance/specs. Flame away!



Very well said.


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## Dafis (Jul 12, 2009)

Is this the same guy that has worked for numerous other archery companies and quits to jump with the latest and greatest then quit to make his own bows? Filling bankruptcy means they cannot manage thier spending which does not hurt them as it hurts the creditors and suppliers.


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

link06 said:


> WOW, what a bunch of drama on this thread! I'm still trying to figure out why alot of you feel the need to personally attack Kevin and Kate every chance you get, like a bunch of spoiled school kids? If you haven't purchased a K&K or don't plan on it, than anything K&K related has nothing to do with you! I don't think I have ever seen a larger showing of childish, selfish, and insecure posts than what I've seen on this bashing thread. It's really sad! I hope to reach perfection like alot of you who are throwing stones! Their are so many that are just hoping K&K fails so they can feel better about themselves and their schoolgirl posts. SAD SAD SAD
> Call me a fanboy or whatever you want, I don't care! Truth is I have owned bows from all manufacturers over the last couple years, I just happen to own a K&K at the moment and really like everything about the bows performance/specs. Flame away!


Actually, the SAD, SAD, SAD part is the guys who own K&K bows that are on here taking up for himm as if you guys are buddies or something. Most of you don't even know the guy personally so why do you feel the need to take up for him? I don't know him personally, but from what small amounts of the videos I watched (thanks for posting them here guys, I had too) and the way he conducted himself on the fourm here, I don't care for the guy. That being said. I own an ipod and could care less about Steve Jobs, I own a Chevrolet and could care less about Daniel Akerson. So, why is it that you guys get your feelings hurt when something bad is said about KS? I think maybe you are trying to make yourself feel better about buying a bow from a guy(company) that may not be around much longer. That's just my opinion though.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Drifter0678 said:


> We need a drama section here on A.T.... How about "As the arrow flies"?... People sticking their noses in places it don't belong, but has nothing better to do than talk sh**.... :wink:


:thumbs_do


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

jbsoonerfan said:


> The only people who were going to buy a bow from him were the ones who got excited when he put pictures of his forearms on here. Some people would have bought anything he was selling.


This ^ is funny.:darkbeer:


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## Maybee-R (May 15, 2006)

This thread would die if the people trying to defend Kevin would stop.
Shoot your bows and enjoy them. It doesn't make a difference on the way the bows shoot.

No matter what anyone says it wont make a difference one way or the other anyway.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Maybee-R said:


> This thread would die if the people trying to defend Kevin would stop.
> Shoot your bows and enjoy them. It doesn't make a difference on the way the bows shoot.
> 
> No matter what anyone says it wont make a difference one way or the other anyway.


Thread would die equaly as quick if all the bashers gave it a rest as well.


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## Maybee-R (May 15, 2006)

bloodtrail1 said:


> Thread would die equaly as quick if all the bashers gave it a rest as well.


Your missing the point. NO matter what is said on this thread it wont change a thing. what ever is going to happen is going to happen. like it, or not.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Maybee-R said:


> Your missing the point. NO matter what is said on this thread it wont change a thing. what ever is going to happen is going to happen. like it, or not.


Yes, I know that!!!
And I have stated that even if K&K goes belly up, it didnt mean that my K&K bows would cease working!
But your right, I shouldnt have an opinion or be able to say what I want.
Only the bashers and haters are allowed to post and of course are the ones ALWAYS right.
Thats what your saying right? If all the K&K guys would stop posting, this thread would die.
So, I have no right posting and we need to all just read the bash fest and all have a great time bashing! 
:darkbeer:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Maybee-R said:


> This thread would die if the people trying to defend Kevin would stop.
> Shoot your bows and enjoy them. It doesn't make a difference on the way the bows shoot.
> 
> No matter what anyone says it wont make a difference one way or the other anyway.


Maybe the supporters can start another thread getting donations to help there lawyer fees. Make a difference.
DB


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> Maybe the supporters can start another thread getting donations to help there lawyer fees. Make a difference.
> DB


Great idea DB! 
Thanks for the words of wisdom.


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

The supporters have already give their money to K&K which obviously wasn't put to good use. Hummers, $10K stoves, huge diamonds, lol


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## ozzz (Jul 30, 2010)

What were some of his best designs?


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## Maybee-R (May 15, 2006)

bloodtrail1 said:


> Yes, I know that!!!
> And I have stated that even if K&K goes belly up, it didnt mean that my K&K bows would cease working!
> But your right, I shouldnt have an opinion or be able to say what I want.
> Only the bashers and haters are allowed to post and of course are the ones ALWAYS right.
> ...


Nope not what im saying at all. Thanks though I fully understand why others feel the need to bash what ever choice of equipment you shoot.
You have a problem with a bad attitude. assuming everyone is out to slam you or your choices in life. Ill save you some sleepless nights and let you in on a secret. NO one cares about you or your bow of choice. Carry on!


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## jamesbowman (Jan 29, 2006)

jbsoonerfan said:


> Actually, the SAD, SAD, SAD part is the guys who own K&K bows that are on here taking up for himm as if you guys are buddies or something. Most of you don't even know the guy personally so why do you feel the need to take up for him? I don't know him personally, but from what small amounts of the videos I watched (thanks for posting them here guys, I had too) and the way he conducted himself on the fourm here, I don't care for the guy. That being said. I own an ipod and could care less about Steve Jobs, I own a Chevrolet and could care less about Daniel Akerson. So, why is it that you guys get your feelings hurt when something bad is said about KS? I think maybe you are trying to make yourself feel better about buying a bow from a guy(company) that may not be around much longer. That's just my opinion though.


The reason is evident- They are so tore up that the limited edition run bow they waited forever for and paid big bucks for is going to be worth little in a short amount of time. I personally feel for them but yet the writing was already on the wall. I fell for the drama on the Stother bows and bought one and took the loss but sat this one out and glad I did.


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## crazy4hunting (Feb 4, 2006)

seems to me alot are getting upset, as they feel they are getting a personal attack on there bow of choice. true, some posts may be that way, but most are about a company, not the bow. like all things, many posting have never even shot the bow, so they have no say about the bow in ?. this thread seems to be about if the "bow company" will be around for awhile or not. or at least thats what it should be about, not attacks on ones choice of equipment. i know alot of you, are going, "well no kidding!", but i felt it needed to be said, as it seems to be loosing track. i wish all well, the company, the vendors, the owners of a k & k bow.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

Who can do a history lesson, are there four companies using Kevin's designs (Elite, Strothers, G5, K&K)?


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## flatlineks (Nov 26, 2009)

He designs a great bow and has other issues, bfd, this thread is worthless now.


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## rjdiii (Jul 24, 2006)

Funny thing is that after all this drama and bashing there aren't any K&K bows in the classifieds. Must mean most are happy with their bows. I am certainly happy with my Vindicator. You guys should try one!


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## freddyd (Jan 26, 2009)

Passionate posts! Seems to me that Mr. and Mrs. Strother need to go underground for a decade (or two), to reassess their priorities, find financial and spiritual guidance. Boy did they leave a wake of distrust and destruction. They didn't burn bridges, they blew them up. Many don't trust the name. Fortunately, looks like the duo has a network of empathetic supporters; hopefully, they will help with the Strothers rehabilitation. Maybe this time the couple with gain insight from their shenanigans and learn some humility.


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## Buster of Xs (Nov 28, 2008)

rjdiii said:


> Funny thing is that after all this drama and bashing there aren't any K&K bows in the classifieds. Must mean most are happy with their bows. I am certainly happy with my Vindicator. You guys should try one!


There are only a couple hundred on Earth in the hands of fanboys. And the resale value is probably nothing right about now. TRY ONE? :lol:


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## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

Buster of Xs said:


> Seriously, just who the Hell would have been foolish enough to buy one anyway? Pure stupidity in my honest opinion, especially after I've been seeing his drama for 6 years and four different companies (BT, Elite, Strother and now K&K).
> 
> Come on, K&K defenders......sight unseen, over-priced, no R&D whatsoever, all outsourced parts (nothing made in-house), proven crappy track record in business, second rate and generic bow designs, no warranty (soon, unless someone buys them out), etc. And some of the defenders here have one "on order", so they can't even say the bow is decent or not.
> 
> I think it's hero worship or having the hots for the ex-Martin girl. What else could it be?


Who is this ex-Martin girl ???

That's twice now i have seen it mentioned and i'm curious who it is now.

Woody


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## La Wildman (Mar 9, 2010)

This guy and his crap needs to just FADE AWAY!!!!


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## WGMitch (Feb 15, 2005)

Wow page 18, this is cool!


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## link06 (Mar 3, 2008)

Woody69 said:


> Who is this ex-Martin girl ???
> 
> That's twice now i have seen it mentioned and i'm curious who it is now.
> 
> Woody


I'm assuming it is Kate Strother.


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## cornfedkiller (Feb 16, 2008)

Woody69 said:


> Who is this ex-Martin girl ???
> 
> That's twice now i have seen it mentioned and i'm curious who it is now.
> 
> Woody


Kate Strothers (Robinson) used to be the martin girl.


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## elk ivory (Apr 8, 2007)

Not related to the OP's original post,but I just tried to take a look at their company web site for the first time and my McAfee protection window popped up "unsafe site do to recent suspicious behavior!!!"

:mg::wink::set1_thinking::dontknow::confused2::jeez::***:


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

eyedoc said:


> Yup Buster,
> 
> I was one that was "foolish" enough to buy one. And even with this news, I am very happy that I made that decision. My Vengeance is shooting bullet holes, the broadheads and field points are shooting together and the thing is whisper quiet for a speed bow. I couldnt be happier. I dont have hero worship or hots for the ex-Martin girl, I just like his style of bows and how they perform. Add to the list....Bowtech Tribute, Bowtech Allegience, Elite Z28, Elite GT500, Strother Infinity and now the K&K Vengeance. I am far from foolish, just know what type of bow I enjoy shooting.
> 
> Time for me to take my "foolish" but into the office and examine some patients.


Touché!!!!


----------



## sirrobinhood (Jun 15, 2005)

Buster of Xs said:


> There are only a couple hundred on Earth in the hands of fanboys. And the resale value is probably nothing right about now. TRY ONE? :lol:


I don't have a dog in this fight...
I did shoot a Vengeance, Very nice bow. I don't think it is a piece of crap just because the designer is Kevin.
I don't see the resale value going down much..About average.
I will say that other companies have had much lower re-sale values..NBA and Athens. Had them both, they were great bows though.


----------



## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

incendiaerus said:


> Who can do a history lesson, are there four companies using Kevin's designs (Elite, Strothers, G5, K&K)?


There are more out there too..


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

Looks like the Kevin love birds are trying to get this so far off topic that the admin will shut it down. 

I don't blame you guys, I wouldn't want people talking bad about my BFF either.


----------



## eyedoc (Aug 17, 2005)

CdBurner said:


> Who here shoots Rage broadheads and do they ever not open or open in flight?


Now that right there is funny....might as well turn this 18pg thread into 40....


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

jbsoonerfan said:


> Looks like the Kevin love birds are trying to get this so far off topic that the admin will shut it down.
> 
> I don't blame you guys, I wouldn't want people talking bad about my BFF either.


If I remember right, you were one of those love birds who really liked his Z-28. :mg:


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

Scottie/PA said:


> If I remember right, you were one of those love birds who really liked his Z-28. :mg:


Loved my Z28, loved my Tribute, loved my Ally, loved my GTO, loved my GT500's, loved my Infinity, however I would never take up for the person who designed them simply because he designs a nice bow. 

I have said this before and I will say it again. Kevin can design some awesome bows and I will never argue otherwise. However, if his track record doesn't speak volumes about him as a person, then I don't know what else to say. There is NO WAY on earth I would buy a bow from HIM. I may consider buying one of his designs, but I would never buy one from HIM.

I would think that as a dealer you would be somewhat concerned about this whole situation.


----------



## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

jbsoonerfan said:


> Loved my Z28, loved my Tribute, loved my Ally, loved my GTO, loved my GT500's, loved my Infinity, however I would never take up for the person who designed them simply because he designs a nice bow.
> 
> I have said this before and I will say it again. Kevin can design some awesome bows and I will never argue otherwise. However, if his track record doesn't speak volumes about him as a person, then I don't know what else to say. There is NO WAY on earth I would buy a bow from HIM. I may consider buying one of his designs, but I would never buy one from HIM.
> 
> I would think that as a dealer you would be somewhat concerned about this whole situation.


Do you feel it makes you any better by coming on here and saying all the things you have. You and I have dealt with each other before. I would not expect that of you.


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## sirrobinhood (Jun 15, 2005)

Well this is an unfortunate situation for both Kevin and the people he owes.
I dont look down on anyone these days that has to file for bankruptcy. Seems these days it is a very common thing to do.
Call Kevin anything you want..everyone has an opinion of the guy...But I will say this:
There is no denying that this guy can be accredited with building fantastic bows and a couple of the BEST (Ally/Tribute).
He has made a lot of archers, including myself happy over the years. Id bet a lot of people on this thread has shot his bows. Thats the think I don't understand. Why all the hate?
I could care less what he does or what kind of a person he is.
The end result is if I like something he or anybody else designs...I will shoot it.


----------



## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

Scottie/PA said:


> Do you feel it makes you any better by coming on here and saying all the things you have. You and I have dealt with each other before. I would not expect that of you.


What have I said that was untrue? 

I don't like LeBron James either but this thread isn't about basketball. If it was, I would tell you exactly what I think of him. I assume the only people that would take offense to it were those who really liked LeBron.

I'm sorry this has hurt so many people the way it has. I hope nothing but the best for you guys who own K&K bows.


----------



## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

jb_wi said:


> You seem to have a way of sticking your nose into business that you say that you "don't care about". What gives?
> 
> I'm guessing you have a Fathead of Kevin Strother on your wall at home, and you're simply upset because he won't respond to you on the forum.
> 
> By the way - is that a chip on your shoulder, or a potato?


It's a public forum and it is now everyone's business. I never said I "don't care about" the situation as I feel it is a very interesting situation to say the least.

No Fatheads on my wall.

Neither, why would I have a chip on my shoulder?


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

tapout155 said:


> I dont think it's real meat when it comes out either.


It looks the same going in as coming out but, I still buy em by the 10 pack.


----------



## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

ddossett1976 said:


> Its no ones business but Kevin and Kate and it is a joke that the Mods won't delete this thread. It's like someone on here has an agenda against Kevin for all this to keep going ?


You just joined today??? 

SO you could post on here and defend K&K??

The mods won't delete it, there's nothing wrong with it. 
They may however Ban a few folks, that's why I'm mostly watching......


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

XForce Girl said:


> You just joined today???
> 
> SO you could post on here and defend K&K??
> 
> ...


ha ha you caught that too.............first two posts on a thread like this, you know he didnt come to "Archery Talk" for talking archery. 
Tool. :wink:


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

jbsoonerfan said:


> Looks like the Kevin love birds are trying to get this so far off topic that the admin will shut it down.
> 
> I don't blame you guys, I wouldn't want people talking bad about my BFF either.


What i was just thinking as well.


----------



## Jhorne (Jul 15, 2003)

No one to blame but the Strothers. They brought this on themselves.


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

flatline = :ban:


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

bloodtrail1 said:


> Not sure? But my guess is someone has had to by now?


I honestly dont think so... If so then their posts were removed because im not seeing ''Banned'' under any names on any pages. I honestly dont think anyone that is posting rationally is going to get banned for voiceing their opinion....


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Why cant we all just be friends?
I really think Mr.Rogers if alive, would agree with me.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

In all seriousness I seen on one of the youtube videos, KS drinking a rockstar energy drink.
I bought one, and you know what?
They are GREAT!
If this is the kool aid that I hear people talk about, then man do I LIKE the kool aid!


----------



## Scattergun2570 (Sep 17, 2009)

Ok,can you guys all hug and forget about this now? :clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Posts are being deleted... I can see that clearly. Id stop hijacking the thread now...


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Whoever is doing the ''cleaning'' i would like to Thank you... :clap:


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## sirrobinhood (Jun 15, 2005)

This Thread reminds me of the movie and old car maker.."Tucker"
I dont know why!


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## roohunt (May 6, 2006)

I think they could have left the packer chick!


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

roohunt said:


> I think they could have left the packer chick!


No kidding!


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## kkrueger (Oct 11, 2008)

I don't know Kevin or Kate, I don't expect to ever know them. They are dealing with something that they need to deal with, not you or I. I bought a bow designed by someone that has a track record of designing great bows that a lot of people like and enjoy shooting. So I spent $769 on a bow, big flipping deal. I wanted to try one of his designs, shoots great. Whether K&K is around for 1 year or 20 years, it doesn't matter to me. I bought a Z7 last year that I thought was the biggest piece of crap made...I didn't look into Matt M personal life before I bought it, it would not have mattered...I wanted the bow.

This man crush, leg humping, fan boy crap is getting real old. You guys are acting like a bunch of jilted lovers, what has he or Kate ever done to you or any of the other bashers? Have the bows he designed in the past hurt someone you love? I'm sure all of you have worked at or for the same company your whole life??? Let me know what it's like to walk on water...

Kyle


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## flatlineks (Nov 26, 2009)

Petfect kkrueger


----------



## tjandy (Jun 10, 2005)

Whether you are wishing Kate and Kevin well or have concerns post up, if you are posting nonsense, it needs to stop. Post within the rules, hijacking is not allowed. AT Moderation


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

kkrueger said:


> This man crush, leg humping, fan boy crap is getting real old.
> 
> You guys are acting like a bunch of jilted lovers, what has he or Kate ever done to you or any of the other bashers? Have the bows he designed in the past hurt someone you love?


I wouldnt call the posters with concerns of K&K ''Leg humpers'' or ''fanboys'' persay... I dont think they qualify for what those terms indicate. Those terms seem to fit the ''KS defenders'' better IMO. But i dont use those terms... I was just quoting from your post...


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## kkrueger (Oct 11, 2008)

Yup, always the innocent victim...I know, you are just trying to provide everyone with information. It all started with the "misleading" title of the thread...I know, you just want to make sure we spend our money on what is best of us...



DeepFried said:


> I wouldnt call the posters with concerns of K&K ''Leg humpers'' or ''fanboys'' persay... I dont think they qualify for what those terms indicate. Those terms seem to fit the ''KS defenders'' better IMO. But i dont use those terms... I was just quoting from your post...


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

kkrueger said:


> Yup, always the innocent victim...I know, you are just trying to provide everyone with information. It all started with the "misleading" title of the thread...I know, you just want to make sure we spend our money on what is best of us...


What am i an ''innocent victim'' of?? And is this information not useful to the archery community and those in the market for a new bow? Because i fully believe it is and im not the only one....


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Subscribed


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

rodney482 said:


> Subscribed


Hahahahaha


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## wvbowhunter09 (Mar 14, 2009)

Come on guys lets keep the agendas on the up and up...............oops almost forgot, good luck Kevin and Kate:shade:


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## kkrueger (Oct 11, 2008)

I used to love AT. I wish everyone was treated the same...both manufacturers and users. Still a lot of great info, but threads like this are sad.

Kyle


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

rodney482 said:


> Subscribed


What took you so long, Rodney?


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## bowhunter1527 (Jan 30, 2011)

DeepFried said:


> What i was just thinking as well.


LOL i have nothing to do with any of this just wanted to bring a little lite to the thread, which for someone to delete post but choose to keep the thread going after 18 pages is crazy. All this thread has become is a pissing contest and its clear no side is going to win. I can see both sides and the point was made about 10 pages ago, so why not let it be and stop kicking a dead horse. I want some of you to sit back and really think of how much time you spent reading and posting on this thread, now look whats changed. Anything? NO. Hmm seems to me if everyone put this much time into doing something productive America might be a better place. Hell go out and shoot, tune your bow or better yet take a kid out and teach them how to shoot. Lets put this into another perspective at how dumb this is, in another post you have a soldier that's deployed, who created a thread to say, hey whats up im coming home sooner then later, things are good. He gets 2 pages worth of post while this BS gets 18. Like i said its time to show some maturity and just let the thread go.


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

sirrobinhood said:


> Well this is an unfortunate situation for both Kevin and the people he owes.
> I dont look down on anyone these days that has to file for bankruptcy. Seems these days it is a very common thing to do.
> Call Kevin anything you want..everyone has an opinion of the guy...But I will say this:
> There is no denying that this guy can be accredited with building fantastic bows and a couple of the BEST (Ally/Tribute).
> ...


Very good points........:thumbs_up


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

kkrueger said:


> , but threads like this are sad.
> 
> Kyle


Yes they are... Because they are always involving the same person. Sans Andy Ross i have never seen so many threads involving the same guy in the Archery Industry. And theres a reason for that... Matt McPherson, Craig Yehle, Pete Shepley, Peter Crawford, Richard Newberry, Mike Derus, Rex Darlington and most everyone else perform respectable business practices and dont bring this kind of publicity on themselves... And if they did there would be a thread about it im sure... 

Yes its very sad indeed.


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

Here are some instructions for working on the Axcel Armortech Sights. Just thought I would post something useful for "Archers helping Archers" rather than this useless crap......

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1242978


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## kkrueger (Oct 11, 2008)

Has K&K Archery filed for Bankruptcy??? Yes or No? 

And you personally know how all of those men run their businesses?

Like I said earlier...Please let me know what it's like to walk on water

Kyle



DeepFried said:


> Yes they are... Because they are always involving the same person. Sans Andy Ross i have never seen so many threads involving the same guy in the Archery Industry. And theres a reason for that... Matt McPherson, Craig Yehle, Pete Shepley, Peter Crawford, Richard Newberry, Mike Derus, Rex Darlington and most everyone else perform respectable business practices and dont bring this kind of publicity on themselves...
> 
> Yes its very sad indeed.


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## hypochiro (Dec 17, 2008)

You can call me whatever you want, I don't know Kevin or Kate nor will I ever probably meet them, the vengeance was my first kevin designed bow and I must say he did a great job so I guess if that makes me a leghumper so be it. What I don't understand is how people who have also not met him nor own any of his products could be so critical of someone they have no association with. I own two businesses and would feel terrible if I somehow did something or said things that I don't know all the details about or have any association with that would cause another business to struggle. I hope they make it, I really like my vengeance and can't wait to see what comes out from them next year.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

I understand both sides of this debate.

For those that feel like it should not be here...the best thing you could do is stop replying.

A thread without debate is a short lived thread.

The thread will not be removed, site rules apply..so please remember the rules and stay within them. (it does not matter
which side of the debate you are on)

:thumb:


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## Angry American (May 5, 2011)

Kevin- Kate -and Obama Need to jump on a Private Jet and Just go away. Is that simple enuf ??


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

rodney482 said:


> Subscribed


:lol:


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

Angry American said:


> Kevin- Kate -and Obama Need to jump on a Private Jet and Just go away. Is that simple enuf ??


Wouldnt hurt my feelings. Heck. Throw deepfried on it too.


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## THE BULL (Feb 24, 2009)

Angry American said:


> Kevin- Kate -and Obama Need to jump on a Private Jet and Just go away. Is that simple enuf ??


LMAO!!!! Thats too funny


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## THE BULL (Feb 24, 2009)

backstrap steve said:


> Wouldnt hurt my feelings. Heck. Throw deepfried on it too.


Even funnier!!!!


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

kkrueger said:


> Has K&K Archery filed for Bankruptcy??? Yes or No?
> 
> And you personally know how all of those men run their businesses?
> 
> ...


The thread title says ''K&K''. Which stands for ''Kevin & Kate''. That is common knowledge to most who frequent this forum. And if any of those people i mentioned did practice business the same way i bet we'd hear about it through one source or another.


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## Dan Zawacki (Apr 17, 2010)

For some reason, I cannot edit my earlier posts.

I would like to apologize for the tone and content of those posts. I have come into contact with and been exposed to information that has challenged my perspective on the whole situation surrounding this thread. I have cause to take a serious step back, and question the things I thought I knew, and filter through a new, clearer lens the perspectives, and I am embarrassed to admit, assumptions and judgements that I find I have made.

Not that this next statement should be cause to impress anyone, but my next bow purchase will be a K&K product. I have not had a chance to test them, and know nothing more about the product than I did earlier. However, finding myself in the very embarrassing position of having spoken ill about a situation I thought I knew and was dead wrong, and potentially having had a deleterious impact (even if only a minor one) on the reputation of a family and a company that I had no business speaking ill about, I feel I owe them that support in recompense when time comes that I am ready and able to purchase a new bow.


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## wvbowhunter09 (Mar 14, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> The thread title says ''K&K''. Which stands for ''Kevin & Kate''. That is common knowledge to most who frequent this forum. And if any of those people i mentioned did practice business the same way i bet we'd hear about it through one source or another.


 and it just so happens to be the name of their business. Coincidence............................I think not


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## Mithril (Dec 4, 2010)

DeepFried said:


> The thread title says ''K&K''. Which stands for ''Kevin & Kate''. That is common knowledge to most who frequent this forum. And if any of those people i mentioned did practice business the same way i bet we'd hear about it through one source or another.


I'm afraid he's got you there, thread bashers. It says "file" not "files" so it's clearly referring to the pair, not the company. And as an aside, if you're going to act like *Edited, at least don't put it up on YouTube...


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## Mithril (Dec 4, 2010)

Now THAT is funny- it appears the system edited my use of the French term for "new rich" in my post above as if it were something vulgar. That, or a moderator wasn't paying attention in high school...


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

I wish the Strothers well and hope they find the integrity to actually repay all of their debts that they are attempting to discharge in their bankruptcy proceeding.


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## TOOL (Apr 11, 2006)

Dan Zawacki said:


> For some reason, I cannot edit my earlier posts.
> 
> I would like to apologize for the tone and content of those posts. I have come into contact with and been exposed to information that has challenged my perspective on the whole situation surrounding this thread. I have cause to take a serious step back, and question the things I thought I knew, and filter through a new, clearer lens the perspectives, and I am embarrassed to admit, assumptions and judgements that I find I have made.
> 
> Not that this next statement should be cause to impress anyone, but my next bow purchase will be a K&K product. I have not had a chance to test them, and know nothing more about the product than I did earlier. However, finding myself in the very embarrassing position of having spoken ill about a situation I thought I knew and was dead wrong, and potentially having had a deleterious impact (even if only a minor one) on the reputation of a family and a company that I had no business speaking ill about, I feel I owe them that support in recompense when time comes that I am ready and able to purchase a new bow.


Now you have my attention. If it is information that will let others see things from a different perspective, I would imagine it would be beneficial to share. But I would understand not wanting to continue with any form of discussion so as to not fan the fire.


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## Dan Zawacki (Apr 17, 2010)

> ow you have my attention. If it is information that will let others see things from a different perspective, I would imagine it would be beneficial to share. But I would understand not wanting to continue with any form of discussion so as to not fan the fire.


I apologize, but I am not at liberty to share the information that has made me step away from my previous position. It was given me in confidence, but in such a manner, and from such a source, that I, personally am inclined to believe it. 

You may, of course, continue to think what you will, we still live in a society that values intellectual freedom. I, for one, am quite through trying to shape or alter anyone else's opinion on the matter, and regret having made the attempt to do so while I was working under a series of judgements and assumptions I should have known better than to make.


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## joelife (Oct 26, 2005)

TOOL said:


> Now you have my attention. If it is information that will let others see things from a different perspective, I would imagine it would be beneficial to share. But I would understand not wanting to continue with any form of discussion so as to not fan the fire.


It probably went a little like this "I'm gonna sue you for YYY and ZZZ if you don't recant" :spit:


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## Dan Zawacki (Apr 17, 2010)

> It probably went a little like this "I'm gonna sue you for YYY and ZZZ if you don't recant"


No, I can, at least dispel that bit of nonsense. None of the statements I have made constitute libel. I made no statement of fact that was untrue, nor any claim or accusation of professional, ethical, or criminal misconduct. None of the things I said would have been grounds for a suit, and if that had been a communication I had received, I would have had a lot of fun with it.

I am not in the least bit frightened of lawyers and courtrooms. They are part and parcel of what I do for a living. SLAP style big scary court action threats don't impress me one bit either.


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

Dan Zawacki said:


> I apologize, but I am not at liberty to share the information that has made me step away from my previous position. It was given me in confidence, but in such a manner, and from such a source, that I, personally am inclined to believe it.
> 
> You may, of course, continue to think what you will, we still live in a society that values intellectual freedom. I, for one, am quite through trying to shape or alter anyone else's opinion on the matter, and regret having made the attempt to do so while I was working under a series of judgements and assumptions I should have known better than to make.


You know if youre going to come on here saying you have learned info that has greatly changed your opinion.Then asked what that info was and then say well Im not going to share that part of it.Then dont say you have any info because until you have the backbone to stand behind what youre saying and provide actual proof of it,then its non existent.Kind of like the Kevin lovers views that have no backing.Nobody is saying he doesnt design great bows.

The problems with KS is KS himself.Someone mentioned earlier they didnt like their M7 so that doesnt mean they then hate Mcphearson.Well how many youtube videos is there of McPhearson with his bows and other manufacturers? or of his life? or how many lawsuits is there against him that can directly effect the longevity of his company?

Your point is not valid in any way.You referenced established companies that would continue on whether or not the current CEO was declaring bankruptcy or not.That is not the case with KS.K&K may make the best product on the market but that doesnt change the fact that the face of their company is declaring bankruptcy and that it will definitely change or end their company.

Going off of past history he may be able to sell the company,who knows.You same guys defending him were the same ones defending him the last couple times he jumped to a new company and the last one screwed him.He did nothing wrong,he apparently never does.If every thing he says is true and every company he has worked for has hosed him then the guy needs to be sainted.Because those are the only ones I can think of that have gone through that level of persecution.


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## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

someone inboxed me and told me not to make it personal, calling them boneheads. its not
my brother is a bonehead too.
guess ima get banned from AT and thanksgiving


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

toddsurfs said:


> someone inboxed me and told me not to make it personal, calling them boneheads. its not
> my brother is a bonehead too.
> guess ima get banned from AT and thanksgiving


Lmao


----------



## ScottyPotty (Feb 11, 2011)

Bummer.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

DeepFried said:


> The thread title says ''K&K''. Which stands for ''Kevin & Kate''.
> That is common knowledge to most who frequent this forum.
> And if any of those people i mentioned did practice business the same way
> i bet we'd hear about it through one source or another.


 
The best solution -- do not file Bankruptcy -- offer to pay and structure a plan. Then contact Strothers Archery 
and get your name back, through offer or settlement; then build bows under the Strothers Archery Brand. Live 
happily ever after. .02


"these are just my opinions, if you don't like them I have others"


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> K&K may make the best product on the market but that doesnt change the fact that the face of their company is declaring bankruptcy and that it will definitely change or end their company.


Very interesting, thanks!


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## AR&BOW (May 24, 2009)

Dan Zawacki said:


> I apologize, but I am not at liberty to share the information that has made me step away from my previous position. It was given me in confidence, but in such a manner, and from such a source, that I, personally am inclined to believe it.
> 
> You may, of course, continue to think what you will, we still live in a society that values intellectual freedom. I, for one, am quite through trying to shape or alter anyone else's opinion on the matter, and regret having made the attempt to do so while I was working under a series of judgements and assumptions I should have known better than to make.



Thats because they do not want that info getting out to the masses. Do you know why??. . . . . . because what you have been told I can guarantee is not true. If it was posted they run the risk of some real proof being put out that another lie can not cover up.


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

AR&BOW said:


> Thats because they do not want that info getting out to the masses. Do you know why??. . . . . . because what you have been told I can guarantee is not true. If it was posted they run the risk of some real proof being put out that another lie can not cover up.


...doubt it. 
But you are "the man" so you would know. 
I always like the truth and facts. I have no reason to change my opinion from the "info" I've seen. I would change camps and believe in santa if someone could prove he was real.

I have resisted posting, but seeing you bump in...makes me feel obligated based on your objectives.


----------



## FCFCharlie (Mar 18, 2010)

Get over it.



AR&BOW said:


> Thats because they do not want that info getting out to the masses. Do you know why??. . . . . . because what you have been told I can guarantee is not true. If it was posted they run the risk of some real proof being put out that another lie can not cover up.


----------



## kjrice (Jun 8, 2009)

How can the owner and moderators of this site allow this post to flourish? The very fact that it did shows very poor judgement. Heaven forbid if someone slammed (true or not) a sponsor. You don't have to like a person or company but, there should be a consistent respect and application of the rules. I have really lost a lot of respect for AT and some others - what a shame. You all need look in the mirror!


----------



## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

It's so hard to keep up with this soap opera with all these coded posts. Someone PM me the info of what the heck the last few posts (Dan Zawaki+Ar&bow)are talking about.


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## tjandy (Jun 10, 2005)

Doc said:


> I'm curious as to why your mind is blown.
> We have a documented source of information stating that 2 individuals that own an archery company are filing for Chapter 7...The chapter of the Bankruptcy Code providing for "liquidation," ( i.e., the sale of a debtor's nonexempt property and the distribution of the proceeds to creditors.)
> 
> This has relevance in the archery community as many here ordered bows from said individuals or may have interest in ordering bows. Nobody on here knows exactly how the company was structured and if proper mechanisms were put into place to protect company assets from liquidation. Also who are the VC's in the company? The owners?
> ...


Kjrice, here is a response from a site admin regarding your question.


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## AR&BOW (May 24, 2009)

Karbon said:


> ...doubt it.
> But you are "the man" so you would know.
> I always like the truth and facts. I have no reason to change my opinion from the "info" I've seen. I would change camps and believe in santa if someone could prove he was real.
> 
> I have resisted posting, but seeing you bump in...makes me feel obligated based on your objectives.


I am not going to argue with you or anyone here Steve. I have stayed out of this through all these pages (interesting read though) so my objective is about the size of an atom. I make a little statement and you are right there behind me.. . . . . didn't think you would be that quick:wink:


----------



## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Here really could be the best solution(s)......

-Keep the suit going against DeepFried, so he keeps whining/stirring the pot but says his posts are filled with good intentions. And why not, keep L-Train in on it all too for fun.
-Randomly throw out "I have insider info and it's really good stuff, but I can't tell you from who". That'll be worth a good 5-6 more pages.
-Anyone who won't look beyond owning a bow from the "majors", they'll forever hate off spin companies. Instant drama there, add on a few more pages.
-Get Kate a bigger ring, a nicer looking kitchen and a couple more Hummers. Then the "poor me" folks have something more to complain about. You know, we have to include everyone in on the debate.

That should about do it. LOL


----------



## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

Kevin and Kate? Is that the Kate off of Kate plus eight? And this Kevin guy, is he the one who took that poor schmuck Johns place? You could tell they were destin to separate. Oh well, hopefully they make it through bankruptcy, eight kids is a lot of mouths to feed.


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## Karbon (Jul 5, 2006)

AR&BOW said:


> I am not going to argue with you or anyone here Steve. I have stayed out of this through all these pages (interesting read though) so my objective is about the size of an atom. I make a little statement and you are right there behind me.. . . . . didn't think you would be that quick:wink:


Alright...I will take a man's word until they prove it's no good.

I've been watching...just not posting.


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## TLB2 (Sep 21, 2008)

173BC said:


> Kevin and Kate? Is that the Kate off of Kate plus eight? And this Kevin guy, is he the one who took that poor schmuck Johns place? You could tell they were destin to separate. Oh well, hopefully they make it through bankruptcy, eight kids is a lot of mouths to feed.


I think this is a different tv show, not the same folks


----------



## SCFox (Dec 11, 2005)

Stump Shooter said:


> Here really could be the best solution(s)......
> 
> -Keep the suit going against DeepFried, so he keeps whining/stirring the pot but says his posts are filled with good intentions. And why not, keep L-Train in on it all too for fun.
> -Randomly throw out "I have insider info and it's really good stuff, but I can't tell you from who". That'll be worth a good 5-6 more pages.
> ...


I agree.


SCFox


----------



## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

TLB2 said:


> I think this is a different tv show, not the same folks



But about the same amount of drama.....


----------



## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Here is the simple fact of the matter:

It is what it is, and it will be what it will be.

I doubt any of us can effect the outcome of anything with one particular company/couple. 

Although this has been an interesting read - I want as many companies in the ring as possible, the more competition the more pressure on each to outperform the other.


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

ShootingABN! said:


> :moon::tomato::BangHead::bs:
> 
> I'm sorry, but I rather pick the cheese from out of my toe nails then to give a crap about this.
> 
> I can't understand why anyone would get their panties all knotted up!!!!:mg:


I am with you brother but, it is just so fun to watch the freak show I can't help it.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

TLB2 said:


> I think this is a different tv show, not the same folks


Hmmmmmm..... Too bad because that other Kate really likes to be in the spot light and this thread would be right up her alley.


----------



## bowhunter1527 (Jan 30, 2011)

Kates pretty hot for having that many kids


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## Z-Rider (Jul 23, 2007)

-bowfreak- said:


> It is about K&K. Even if it is a personal matter their personal finances reflect on how their business is perceived by the customer.


Exactly! If I said I did not see something of this nature coming I would be lying. It is a shame because Kevin has been in on some of the most revolutionary designs in archery as of late.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

Garceau said:


> Here is the simple fact of the matter:
> 
> It is what it is, and it will be what it will be.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with you. The business K&K archery is in is very small. Most of their potential customers (in the companies early stages anyhow) are to be found lurking on this website. 

With all the negativity in this thread (though it may be factual) has to make a huge impact on their (K&K) short term future sales. And the early stages of a company is usually very critical in terms of survival. 

In other words this thread and others like it, and what people say in them, can affect the outcome in this particular company.


----------



## yetanotheryeti (Dec 5, 2010)

perhaps throw a third partner in the mix would solve things , Katland , could solve the problems ?


----------



## crazy4hunting (Feb 4, 2006)

Stump Shooter said:


> Here really could be the best solution(s)......
> 
> -Keep the suit going against DeepFried, so he keeps whining/stirring the pot but says his posts are filled with good intentions. And why not, keep L-Train in on it all too for fun.
> -Randomly throw out "I have insider info and it's really good stuff, but I can't tell you from who". That'll be worth a good 5-6 more pages.
> ...



I must say I enjoyed this post. LOL


----------



## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

I'm not so sure about that. People have short memories especially if they "personally" haven't been taken for any $. If whatever this is has no effect long term on the company, then this 20+ page of hearsay and speculation is just that. Hell......look at each and every small time bow company(and even others) that has started just in the last 3 yrs give or take. Their customer bases aren't that large and they cater to a small minority and they seem to be doing alright with what seems to be a "squeaky clean" resume. Outside of AT, I think one would be hard pressed to find many that know about Strothers, NB, Athens, K&K, Winchester, Maitland, APA and on down the line. 




CdBurner said:


> I have to disagree with you. The business K&K archery is in is very small. Most of their potential customers (in the companies early stages anyhow) are to be found lurking on this website.
> 
> With all the negativity in this thread (though it may be factual) has to make a huge impact on their (K&K) short term future sales. And the early stages of a company is usually very critical in terms of survival.
> 
> In other words this thread and others like it, and what people say in them, can affect the outcome in this particular company.


----------



## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

A lot of posts have been about the relevancy of their personal bankruptcy to the business. Unless there are other owners who get first option to buy out Kevin and Kate, my understanding is their business assets could be liquidated to satisfy creditors. Depending on how quick this is happens, those who have deposits or have paid in full for a bow could lose out.

I hope it works out for all parties involved.


----------



## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Stump Shooter said:


> Here really could be the best solution(s)......
> 
> Then the "poor me" folks have something more to complain about. You know, we have to include everyone in on the debate.



Now come on; some of my favorite things to do is take the 2008 ELITE FIRE, and make a Franken bow. There's many other excellent low cost bows out there!


----------



## killerloop (Mar 16, 2008)

173BC said:


> Kevin and Kate? Is that the Kate off of Kate plus eight? And this Kevin guy, is he the one who took that poor schmuck Johns place? You could tell they were destin to separate. Oh well, hopefully they make it through bankruptcy, eight kids is a lot of mouths to feed.


no,no no,, it's k&k = kevin's kids,,, first BT, then strother, now k&k.. I see a pattern,,, maybe now it's over!!


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Perry24 said:


> A lot of posts have been about the relevancy of their personal bankruptcy to the business. Unless there are other owners who get first option to buy out Kevin and Kate, my understanding is their business assets could be liquidated to satisfy creditors. Depending on how quick this is happens, those who have deposits or have paid in full for a bow could lose out.
> 
> I hope it works out for all parties involved.


And if that does happen, then everyone with lost deposits or those who have paid in full can deal with that if/when it happens. Until then, why worry and speculate about something that may possibly never happen? You, me....any of us could die in a head on collision tomorrow driving to work. But do you worry about it happening tonight as you go to bed? No, I would bet not. That would be one crappy way to go about life worrying about things that "might happen".



Schpankme said:


> Now come on; some of my favorite things to do is take the 2008 ELITE FIRE, and make a Franken bow. There's many other excellent low cost bows out there!


That wasn't my point. Somewhere in these 20 pages were guys ragging on Kate for having a big ring on her hand. And some guys saying how expensive the oven was in their kitchen. LOL!!!!


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## 188 Inches (Oct 9, 2007)

DeepFried said:


> Just for the record i had this cleared with a Mod before i started it. So i doubt it gets closed. I made sure and covered my bases....


I hope you do the right thing and post your credit score and past credit issues. Just saying!


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## killerloop (Mar 16, 2008)

Stump Shooter said:


> And if that does happen, then everyone with lost deposits or those who have paid in full can deal with that if/when it happens. Until then, why worry and speculate about something that may possibly never happen? You, me....any of us could die in a head on collision tomorrow driving to work. But do you worry about it happening tonight as you go to bed? No, I would bet not. That would be one crappy way to go about life worrying about things that "might happen".
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't my point. Somewhere in these 20 pages were guys ragging on Kate for having a big ring on her hand. And some guys saying how expensive the oven was in their kitchen. LOL!!!!



there are members of AT,,, that have been in kate's kitchen????? hmmmmm no wonder kev's claim'n Bank!!!!


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

Stump Shooter said:


> And if that does happen, then everyone with lost deposits or those who have paid in full can deal with that if/when it happens. Until then, why worry and speculate about something that may possibly never happen? You, me....any of us could die in a head on collision tomorrow driving to work. But do you worry about it happening tonight as you go to bed? No, I would bet not. That would be one crappy way to go about life worrying about things that "might happem."


Why not have all the info before making a decision on a purchase? I research just about everything I buy. Would you want to be doing business with someone and then find out they are in bankruptcy?


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## hartofthethumb (Aug 5, 2008)

Quite the little thread going here, LOL

No matter my feelings of Kevin, I truely feel bad that his dirty laundry is being aired and debated by folks all over the country, many of which will remain unaffected by things regardless of how it all works out for him. What is even more sad is that I do think he must prefer it this way based on all the past issues. Whenever there is a rift in his business relationships he seems to be the one side of the situation that throws out his side, or supposed "proof", while the other party keeps the business stuff out of the public eye where it belongs. Just an observation, I hope everything works out in the end for the folks shooting the bows. The rest.... I really don't care.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

killerloop said:


> there are members of AT,,, that have been in kate's kitchen????? hmmmmm no wonder kev's claim'n Bank!!!!


No, they posted their own little reality series on YouTube for everyone to see the Kitchen.


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

188 Inches said:


> I hope you do the right thing and post your credit score and past credit issues. Just saying!


Ridiculous.


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## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

Stump Shooter said:


> Here really could be the best solution(s)......
> 
> -Keep the suit going against DeepFried, so he keeps whining/stirring the pot but says his posts are filled with good intentions. And why not, keep L-Train in on it all too for fun.
> -Randomly throw out "I have insider info and it's really good stuff, but I can't tell you from who". That'll be worth a good 5-6 more pages.
> ...


hey look everybody Kevin is here! yay!


----------



## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

That wasn't my point. Somewhere in these 20 pages were guys ragging on Kate for having a big ring on her hand. And some guys saying how expensive the oven was in their kitchen. LOL!!!! 

i was pointing out what they were showing the world, we can afford all this but cant pay investors and have to file bankruptcy. the math isnt that hard
nobody every answered the question, if they owed you money for 250k worth of rangefinders and filed bankruptcy , would you love them the same?


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## north slope (Feb 6, 2007)

All I can say is WOW. AT has really changed over the last couple years, enjoy people, enjoy.....


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## crazy4hunting (Feb 4, 2006)

north slope said:


> All I can say is WOW. AT has really changed over the last couple years, enjoy people, enjoy.....


Really? I remember a guy who was at bowtech then wasn't just bashing them like crazy. Things haven't changed that much.


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## Stump Shooter (Apr 13, 2006)

Pretty assuming aren't we?


> Would you love them the same?


 Funny stuff....I like it! I've never met Kevin, never talked to him on the phone/in person nor do I lose or gain anything if his company prospers or fails. I simply find it laughable that so many are so quick to swarm when there's blood in the water when they have zero stake with what's going on. 

My question to you would be....what have they done specifically to you for you to have such hatred?
You don't know anyone who has defaulted on a home loan...walked away from a car loan...cheated on their taxes? I bet your another one who lives in a perfect glass house and your world smells like roses. Zero skeletons in the closet right?......Uh huh. 




toddsurfs said:


> That wasn't my point. Somewhere in these 20 pages were guys ragging on Kate for having a big ring on her hand. And some guys saying how expensive the oven was in their kitchen. LOL!!!!
> 
> i was pointing out what they were showing the world, we can afford all this but cant pay investors and have to file bankruptcy. the math isnt that hard
> nobody every answered the question, if they owed you money for 250k worth of rangefinders and filed bankruptcy , would you love them the same?


----------



## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)




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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

I guess AT has changed.Because when you do try to give a heads up about something that could potentionally effect quite a few members of AT.Then youre bashing them?


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1488188&p=1060828649#post1060828649


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## kjrice (Jun 8, 2009)

tjandy said:


> Kjrice, here is a response from a site admin regarding your question.


Sorry but that doesn't fly. The OP post was misleading and maleficent, at least be genuine. In addition, you allow people to make personal attacks. Your hypocrisy is repugnant.


----------



## hartofthethumb (Aug 5, 2008)

kjrice said:


> Wow, I use common words that are above your threshhold and that make me a jerk? What a sad little man. Sorry but I am not getting pulled into a pissing match about grammar with you or anyone else. Shine on!


Definitely not above my understanding, but I am comfortable enough with my own intellect not to have to prove that to you. I simply recognize the difference between intelligence showing through in casual conversation, and when someone is trying to "stretch" their own intelligence for the sole purpose of condescending to others. An intelligent man who truly believes in what he is saying has no reason to dig that deeply into his vocabulary to make his point in a situation such as this. Especially when talking to one's own peers on an archery website... No pissing match here, just calling it like it is...

Again, sorry to everyone else for this last series of posts, I'll go back to just reading the silliness, unless I have something to say "on topic".


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

kjrice said:


> You validate by each post. I wish this comedy show was local...I'd buy a ticket!


Yeah you lost me with your incredible mind because I have no idea what youre talking about.I do support AT.I see you dont,if thats an issue for you I dont mind,


----------



## 188 Inches (Oct 9, 2007)

wellingtontx said:


> Ridiculous.


No actually it's not. Someone comes on here talking about someone's bankruptcy then in the pursuit of full disclosure they should also post their personal information. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. For all we know the person who started this thread has been divorced 3 times, had a Chapter 7 BK in 2009, 2 DWI convictions, a spotlighting charge in Alabama, *AND* voted for Obama!


----------



## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

188 Inches said:


> No actually it's not. Someone comes on here talking about someone's bankruptcy then in the pursuit of full disclosure they should also post their personal information. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. For all we know the person who started this thread has been divorced 3 times, had a Chapter 7 BK in 2009, 2 DWI convictions, a spotlighting charge in Alabama, *AND* voted for Obama!


The difference being that the person that started this threads financial report does not effect other archers like KS does.


----------



## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

Thanks for the latenight readings ladies and gents, it was a good bed time story.


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

188 inchs dose make a point when the said starter of the thread, seems to have made making things tough on the strothers his or hers lifes mission who are they, he or she and who do they work for in the industry who are there friends within the industry , do they own any companies within the industry. My own opinion, is this person must have something going on to pursue Kevin and Kate with such vigor


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

rand_98201 said:


> The difference being that the person that started this threads financial report does not effect other archers like KS does.


This is very simply the crux of this thread. No reason for people to get their panties in a wad over this situation. If Randy Walk, Matt McPherson or Pete Shepley were to face a similar situation don't for a minute think it would not be relevant to the archery community.

Also....trying to draw a comparison to this situation and the average AT members financial situation is ridiculous.


----------



## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

woodsman78 said:


> 188 inchs dose make a point when the said starter of the thread, seems to have made making things tough on the strothers his or hers lifes mission who are they, he or she and who do they work for in the industry who are there friends within the industry , do they own any companies within the industry. My own opinion, is this person must have something going on to pursue Kevin and Kate with such vigor


My guess is you are correct, yes they(op) do have friends in the industry. The OP has admitted he was spoon fed the information about the bankruptcy by someone, who I would guess is in the industry, and has some type of personal connection.

And yes you are right again that OP is going after them with vigor because he has posted that KS is suing him. And if that's the case then I can understand why he has motivation. Justified or not, you decide.


----------



## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

My next question would be if Kevin or Kate is suing them why not post those case numbers up to see what thats all about !!


----------



## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

Come on people, why so much fighting over something you have no control over??

This thread, and all the fighting as a result of it, was started by one guy thats out to get even with Kevin. 

We can do better than that folks.


----------



## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I am pretty certain I have witnessed threads about Matt McPherson being sued for patent issues on this site as well.....


----------



## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

tpcollins said:


> So Obama doesn't like archery either?


apparently not , they didnt get a bail out


----------



## bowhuntermn (Oct 22, 2005)

rand_98201 said:


> I guess AT has changed.Because when you do try to give a heads up about something that could potentionally effect quite a few members of AT.Then youre bashing them?


This thread's intention was not meant to be positive when it started. Simply providing public information is one thing. But this thread continues way beyond bashing, it's a witch hunt.


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## bucktrout (Oct 29, 2003)

This thread:

- no wonder Reality TV shows are so popular

- I wish Kevin, Kate and K&K well.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

173BC said:


> Kevin and Kate? Is that the Kate off of Kate plus eight? And this Kevin guy, is he the one who took that poor schmuck Johns place? You could tell they were destin to separate. Oh well, hopefully they make it through bankruptcy, eight kids is a lot of mouths to feed.


me thinks this chap done broke the code. congratuations...for the laugh of the day.


----------



## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

Stump Shooter said:


> Pretty assuming aren't we? Funny stuff....I like it! I've never met Kevin, never talked to him on the phone/in person nor do I lose or gain anything if his company prospers or fails. I simply find it laughable that so many are so quick to swarm when there's blood in the water when they have zero stake with what's going on.
> 
> My question to you would be....what have they done specifically to you for you to have such hatred?
> You don't know anyone who has defaulted on a home loan...walked away from a car loan...cheated on their taxes? I bet your another one who lives in a perfect glass house and your world smells like roses. Zero skeletons in the closet right?......Uh huh.


zero at stake, me too, after watching their videos, i believe it will stay that way
hatred, NOOOO, pocket full of jokes, YESSS
glass house , yes, the neighbors are still mad about yoga and thong nite, it seems to be the same night all the women wash their cars
so stumper humper leave me alone or ima fly out to kansas, eat a box of kfc and caress every optic in your store


----------



## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

Uh...you posted in the thread didn't you? 

:izza:


sirrobinhood said:


> Man I thought any thread that personally attacks people get pulled.. This thread seems full of them. Glad Im not pulled down in the gutter!


----------



## link06 (Mar 3, 2008)

Dan Zawacki said:


> For some reason, I cannot edit my earlier posts.
> 
> I would like to apologize for the tone and content of those posts. I have come into contact with and been exposed to information that has challenged my perspective on the whole situation surrounding this thread. I have cause to take a serious step back, and question the things I thought I knew, and filter through a new, clearer lens the perspectives, and I am embarrassed to admit, assumptions and judgements that I find I have made.
> 
> Not that this next statement should be cause to impress anyone, but my next bow purchase will be a K&K product. I have not had a chance to test them, and know nothing more about the product than I did earlier. However, finding myself in the very embarrassing position of having spoken ill about a situation I thought I knew and was dead wrong, and potentially having had a deleterious impact (even if only a minor one) on the reputation of a family and a company that I had no business speaking ill about, I feel I owe them that support in recompense when time comes that I am ready and able to purchase a new bow.


I commend you for no longer passing judgement reguardless of who should happen to be on the receiving end of it. It's obviously entirely up to you what brand bow you buy, but it's nice to see someone come out and publicly apologize when they are in the wrong.


----------



## toddsurfs (Nov 14, 2010)

sirrobinhood said:


> Man I thought any thread that personally attacks people get pulled.. This thread seems full of them. Glad Im not pulled down in the gutter!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GKOiTq4OIs


----------



## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

bowhuntermn said:


> This thread's intention was not meant to be positive when it started. Simply providing public information is one thing. But this thread continues way beyond bashing, it's a witch hunt.


This, This, This x 1000!
There are no new characters in this thread. The same people that take every advantage to bash Kevin are right here doing it again. The idea that this was only posted for informative purposes is naive at best. Anyone that's spent any time on this site knows it and its THE reason so many are quick to defend Kevin. 

I, like many am still baffled that the personal attacks, insults, and innuendo's are still being allowed. As I said before, it is sickening.


----------



## dunk50 (Dec 7, 2003)

Haven't wanted to get involved in this sorry thread but like most of you, I can't resist. YOU ARE RIGHT! Kevin and Kate have NO right to RENT a nice house, they should be living in a house trailer like all of you. Also they should not be driving a 2003 Hummer valued at $11k, what's wrong with a little rice burner like all of you and how dare them own a 1988 Bayliner valued at $1800 dollars. Well you get the idea. Kevin an Kate could have been doing everything right and been on the short end of a crappy court system. I for one hope their marriage can survive as well as their business. I would not wish the ill feelings put out on this thread on ANYONE. Pitiful, just plain pitiful!!!


----------



## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

"Now, we're not ones to go 'round spreadin' rumors,
Why, really we're just not the gossipy kind,
No, you'll never hear one of us repeating gossip,
So you'd better be sure and listen close the first time!"
Hee Haw


----------



## nontypical169 (Dec 22, 2009)

Guys its hard to imagine that some of you are writing what you have. I myself think its kinda harsh. Im not defending no one but personal attacks against someones loved ones well is grounds for a a-- whipping. I know this mans biz ethics have not been so respectable but every one has hard times in there life and doesnt make the best decisions. If you say you have never done nothing wrong then your a liar. I myself dont know why all the people who dont own a KnK ARE EVEN WORRIED ABOUT THIS. You have nothing to lose!


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

achiro said:


> This, This, This x 1000!
> There are no new characters in this thread. The same people that take every advantage to bash Kevin are right here doing it again. The idea that this was only posted for informative purposes is naive at best. Anyone that's spent any time on this site knows it and its THE reason so many are quick to defend Kevin.
> 
> I, like many am still baffled that the personal attacks, insults, and innuendo's are still being allowed. As I said before, it is sickening.


I think you should invest in his next company. Some of you act like taking an investors money and losing it or mismanaging it isnt a bad thing at all. Ill bet if if it was your money you would be singing a different tune.
DB


----------



## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

DB - good point.

Looks like it made my over/under prediction well before the deadline.


----------



## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> I think you should invest in his next company. Some of you act like taking an investors money and losing it or mismanaging it isnt a bad thing at all. Ill bet if if it was your money you would be singing a different tune.
> DB


Thanks DB. I think you pretty much summed up exactly what I was wanting to say. No hard feelings towards someone I don't know. But I can't feel bad for routinly poor business practices. 

Not putting my money there.


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

Daniel Boone said:


> I think you should invest in his next company. Some of you act like taking an investors money and losing it or mismanaging it isnt a bad thing at all. Ill bet if if it was your money you would be singing a different tune.
> DB


The thing is DB, just like pretty much everyone else that's posted in this thread, I'm pretty sure that you don't have any idea what money is/was owed to who. You just make assumptions based on all of the rumors and assumptions that people have posted on this site. If you've never made any mistakes in your life then more power to you but I'm willing to bet you've made a few.


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

achiro said:


> The thing is DB, just like pretty much everyone else that's posted in this thread, I'm pretty sure that you don't have any idea what money is/was owed to who. You just make assumptions based on all of the rumors and assumptions that people have posted on this site. If you've never made any mistakes in your life then more power to you but I'm willing to bet you've made a few.


How you can sit there and compare peoples mistakes they have made in their personal lives that have no bearing on others lives.To someone who has very obviously time after time made bad decisions and not paid the people that have invested in them is beyond me.This could very likely effect alot of people but that doesnt seem to matter either.Im sure the post that was pasted from KS about their items of value are right on too.Because they never misrepresent anything.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

achiro said:


> The thing is DB, just like pretty much everyone else that's posted in this thread, I'm pretty sure that you don't have any idea what money is/was owed to who. You just make assumptions based on all of the rumors and assumptions that people have posted on this site. If you've never made any mistakes in your life then more power to you but I'm willing to bet you've made a few.


 Everyone makes mistakes. But if you make one your held accountable most the time. You didnt honestly answer my question. Would you invest in there next venture?
DB


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

rand_98201 said:


> How you can sit there and compare peoples mistakes they have made in their personal lives that have no bearing on others lives.To someone who has very obviously time after time made bad decisions and not paid the people that have invested in them is beyond me.This could very likely effect alot of people but that doesnt seem to matter either.Im sure the post that was pasted from KS about their items of value are right on too.Because they never misrepresent anything.


I can sit here and do it because I don't know the details of everything the Strothers have done in their lives. Neither do you. But I'd like to make a couple more points. 
1. This is a personal bankruptcy that doesn't involve K&K. A lot of people don't seem to be getting that. They don't understand how a corp. works apparently. 
2. I've seen a lot of people take the stance of a bankruptcy is no better than theft so I'd like to address that in terms maybe they will understand. I see guys all the time selling a bow in the classifieds that they just bought, never shot but decided they need the money more than a new bow. They made a bad decision that was pretty easy to take care of by selling the bow. 
How about you go buy a new car, a few weeks later you lose your job. Well maybe you can sell that car and pay off the loan without a huge loss, but maybe you can't? You certainly thought that paying that car payment wouldn't ever be a problem but things change. 
There are a ton of examples that can be used. The only difference is the amount of money being discussed. Just because some of you will never come close to exchanging money/services/items worth hundreds of thousands doesn't mean it's any different. Sometimes life can throw you a huge curveball and if it was unexpected it can hurt you financially. If that financial hit is a few hundred dollars you can usually find a way to get through it but the higher the amount, the harder it is to deal with. 
I can guarantee that most of you have good friends that have gone through bankruptcy or not been able to pay their bills. I bet you either didn't know about it because it was their personal business or if you did know about it then I bet you didn't run them over the coals over it.


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

Daniel Boone said:


> Everyone makes mistakes. But if you make one your held accountable most the time. You didnt honestly answer my question. Would you invest in there next venture?
> DB


How do you know they aren't being held accountable? Do you know the repayment agreements set up by the court? If so, let us know.


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## bigcountry25 (Mar 1, 2005)

Kevin is an excellent bow designer no doubt. But him running the day to day stuff of a company he falls very short. Everything he touches goes belly up, except for bowtech I think they got rid of him to stop him from harming the company and he helped build it up. I don't know this as a fact just putting 2 and 2 together with what he as done since his departure from bowtech.

He has what I consider a "cult" following that anything he does is going to be great. Well that my be true of the bows he makes but the company stuff just screws that all up and yet people just keep following him from company to company.

I wish them nothing but the best, but there is a common theme here that can't be ignored which is he needs to design the bows and let someone outside of his circle run the company. I believe if that was to happen the possibilities are endless due to his knowledge of bow designing.

The only thing I have against him and why I won't buy a bow from his company is that in a year or 2 it will either be belly up or sold to keep it a float and he will just start another company only to repeat what happened with the last one.


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

The difference in people that I know that have gone through Bankruptcy is that it didnt effect other people nearly as much as this could.They declared after the court sided against them to repay that amount so to sit there and say that we dont know if they are planning on repaying the amount is a pretty far fetched thing to say.You apparently dont realize that even though they have LLC set up that they can go after their company as it will have to be listed as an asset.Unless they have someone come in and take ownership or already have.

Funny how we sit here and directly respond to your statements,yet you cant answer the same question DB has asked you a few times now.


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## jamesbowman (Jan 29, 2006)

If this thread only had facts in it would dissapear. So lets list some facts-
Is Kevin a good bow designer- Fact is yes to list a few- Ally, Tribby, Envy, GTO, Z-28, Gt-500, XLR, Strother and now K&K 
Does he have itchy feet yep and move around-Yep thats a fact but so does a lot of other people. 
Does anyone know the details of his financial situation, company future. Nope- Thats fiction and speculation.


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

Just ran a search on Mr. Strother on Google trying to find some factual history on his work in the bow industry. Funny thing is that one of the things that popped up on Google was this old thread from AT apparently dictated by Kevin, authored by Kate, bashin Bowtech. See also follow-up by Kevin on same thread.


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243824


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

rand_98201 said:


> The difference in people that I know that have gone through Bankruptcy is that it didnt effect other people nearly as much as this could.They declared after the court sided against them to repay that amount so to sit there and say that we dont know if they are planning on repaying the amount is a pretty far fetched thing to say.You apparently dont realize that even though they have LLC set up that they can go after their company as it will have to be listed as an asset.Unless they have someone come in and take ownership or already have.
> 
> Funny how we sit here and directly respond to your statements,yet you cant answer the same question DB has asked you a few times now.


 "could" affect it? Maybe, but do you know? Do you know how the LLC is set up? Do you know if the LLC has assets for them to use? I bet you don't. Neither do I. "Could" is an awful big word to allow the continued bashing of the Strothers on this thread. Kevin has stated publicly that it wouldn't affect K&K day to day. AS far as working with machinists and such, he's been in this business long enough that if he didn't pay those bills, K&K wouldn't have ever gotten off the ground so I don't worry about that at all. 
As far as DB's question. Not sure why it needs to be answered. There are way to many factors involved, the first of which would be that I don't have large money to invest in anything right now. If we are just speaking in hypothetical, my answer would be that if after looking at a business plan and checking some things out I felt good about it, then absolutely.


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

I think my point is that it really doesnt matter how its set up.When a company is initially getting on its feet the company itself doesnt have credit so you have to go off of the credit of someone in the ownership group.Thats why it could effect.I never said it definitely will.I am saying that the possability that it could is enough to let people know.


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## TOOL (Apr 11, 2006)

I ask because I really don't know, and am curious. People keep mentioning the future of K&K archery, but I thought that once chapter 7 is filed, collection must cease. Is this not correct?


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

rand_98201 said:


> I think my point is that it really doesnt matter how its set up.When a company is initially getting on its feet the company itself doesnt have credit so you have to go off of the credit of someone in the ownership group.Thats why it could effect.I never said it definitely will.I am saying that the possability that it could is enough to let people know.


I don't disagree with you entirely except for the facts that this thread was started by someone with an agenda against Kevin( and has even stated he does in this thread) and that most of the thread has nothing to do with anything more than peoples angst against Kevin. 
Again, "could affect" is only speculation and it is unbelievably unfair to K&K as a business to put fear into prospective business based on speculation. 
The facts we know are that K&K is still making bows. 
The few suppliers to Kevin that post on archery forums have publicly stated that unlike some other companies they work with, he has never had any issues paying those bills on time. 
Heck, we don't even know if there is credit involved with suppliers, maybe it's all on a "pay as you go" situation.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

achiro said:


> How do you know they aren't being held accountable? Do you know the repayment agreements set up by the court? If so, let us know.


I don't but hope they are held accountable. You still dint answer my question. 
DB


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## brad k (Jan 8, 2009)

*kick ya when your up*

kick ya when your down......they love dirty laundry:sad:


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

I am about done with this thread, as some people seem to think that people who don't own a K&K shouldn't have an opinion. But I would like to remind everyone that when Kevin decided to leave Stother Archery he made sure to come here and let everyone know that they owed him money and that is why he was leaving. He even went as far as having the contract posted here for everyone to see. I don't really see the difference in what he did to Brian Park's and Strother Archery and what's being done or said here.

You know what they say about Karma..................


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## Livetohunt (Jan 1, 2005)

toddsurfs said:


> yes he sounds like a fine fellow
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243824&page=1


He did not seem to bothered about airing dirty laundry here either.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

jbsoonerfan said:


> I am about done with this thread, as some people seem to think that people who don't own a K&K shouldn't have an opinion. But I would like to remind everyone that when Kevin decided to leave Stother Archery he made sure to come here and let everyone know that they owed him money and that is why he was leaving. He even went as far as having the contract posted here for everyone to see. I don't really see the difference in what he did to Brian Park's and Strother Archery and what's being done or said here.
> 
> You know what they say about Karma..................


Very nicely put... Hard to argue with that point. So Kevin can ''smear'' but its not OK to ''smear'' Kevin? He did the same when he left Bowtech and Elite as well.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Livetohunt said:


> He did not seem to bothered about airing dirty laundry here either.


Again.... See my point?


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

jbsoonerfan said:


> I am about done with this thread, as some people seem to think that people who don't own a K&K shouldn't have an opinion. But I would like to remind everyone that when Kevin decided to leave Stother Archery he made sure to come here and let everyone know that they owed him money and that is why he was leaving. He even went as far as having the contract posted here for everyone to see. I don't really see the difference in what he did to Brian Park's and Strother Archery and what's being done or said here.
> 
> You know what they say about Karma..................


Didn't he have a Bowtech bash fest after he left them too here on A/T?


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## jamesbowman (Jan 29, 2006)

wellingtontx said:


> Just ran a search on Mr. Strother on Google trying to find some factual history on his work in the bow industry. Funny thing is that one of the things that popped up on Google was this old thread from AT apparently dictated by Kevin, authored by Kate, bashin Bowtech. See also follow-up by Kevin on same thread.
> 
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243824


Yep we kind of forgot about that one-LOL


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## cityhunter346 (Jun 26, 2006)

All I know is if I were him, and had a reputation of designing a great bow, I would get a job at a reputable company and collect my paycheck and benefits. There are plenty of people who are very talented at what they do, but can't run a business for crap.


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

Hey I know Let's go shoot our bows and forget the drama


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

cityhunter346 said:


> All I know is if I were him, and had a reputation of designing a great bow, I would get a job at a reputable company and collect my paycheck and benefits. There are plenty of people who are very talented at what they do, but can't run a business for crap.


Kevin is a consultant and doesn't participate as an Employee; many of you follow professional athletes who do the same.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

Those who know detailed AT history, back to 2003, would likely conclude that what goes around comes back around. :nod:


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## Elite One (Feb 1, 2009)

If you don't own a K&K bow, why would you care about what happens to Kevin and Kate Strother and K&K Archery?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Easy question Elite one....but a tough answer.

1. Some just like dirt
2. Some just like gossip
3. Some dont like KS 
4. Some dont like what he may or may not have done at previous company
5. Some (like myself) are interested in all facets of archery, and all things related - as I have stated before the more companies we have that keep pushing the envelope keeps even the bigger ones on their toes to constantly stay ahead. Its a plus for everyone.


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## THE BULL (Feb 24, 2009)

LMAO.....TTT...gotta keep this one going!!!


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## sirrobinhood (Jun 15, 2005)

Im waiting for a Vengeance to go on sale here...I see nothing. Hey maybe it is a good bow!


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## flatlineks (Nov 26, 2009)

If this is gonna go on this long they should let ks come back on and really make it interesting. Kicking the dead horse, i think.


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

jbsoonerfan said:


> I am about done with this thread, as some people seem to think that people who don't own a K&K shouldn't have an opinion. But I would like to remind everyone that when Kevin decided to leave Stother Archery he made sure to come here and let everyone know that they owed him money and that is why he was leaving. He even went as far as having the contract posted here for everyone to see. I don't really see the difference in what he did to Brian Park's and Strother Archery and what's being done or said here.
> 
> You know what they say about Karma..................


I think you left out the Elk camp episode there. 

If I remember right that contract was not allowed to be posted on AT. I wonder now since this thread as gone on for so long if it would be OK to post it. It might help some people see part of the reason Kevin is in the financial trouble he is in.


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

jbsoonerfan said:


> I am about done with this thread, as some people seem to think that people who don't own a K&K shouldn't have an opinion. But I would like to remind everyone that when Kevin decided to leave Stother Archery he made sure to come here and let everyone know that they owed him money and that is why he was leaving. He even went as far as having the contract posted here for everyone to see. I don't really see the difference in what he did to Brian Park's and Strother Archery and what's being done or said here.
> 
> You know what they say about Karma..................


Quite a selective memory you have there.


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## sirrobinhood (Jun 15, 2005)

This thread should go into the sticky section!


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## clevrocks33 (Feb 10, 2011)

*might get me in trouble...*

but who cares. Does it really matter in your own lives what happens to kate and kevin strother. I mean really come on people, this is high school crap at its best. I don't know the history with everything that happened on here and honestly I DON"T CARE. They are two people who started a business and have personal financial trouble. Is that anyone elses business? I don't think so.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

vhunter said:


> I think you left out the Elk camp episode there.
> 
> If I remember right that contract was not allowed to be posted on AT. I wonder now since this thread as gone on for so long if it would be OK to post it. It might help some people see part of the reason Kevin is in the financial trouble he is in.


The contract was not the ''real'' reason KS left SA from what i understand. But i dont have any facts to back it up so its just hearsay. Albeit reliable hearsay....


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

achiro said:


> Quite a selective memory you have there.


Just as selective as yours is! All you have done is stick up for KS but when someone points out that he has aired his own and others ''dirty laundry'' here just as i have aired his... You say '' Pretty selective memory you have there...''... But i dont blame you Achiro... If i was thwarted and shown evidence that contridicts what ive said then thats all id say too... 

So tell me this... If he can post about Bowtech and SA and Elite and call them out... Why cant the same be done to him?

It seems you missed RKs post. Which makes this same point.


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## achiro (Jan 26, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> Just as selective as yours is! All you have done is stick up for KS but when someone points out that he has aired his own and others ''dirty laundry'' here just as i have aired his... You say '' Pretty selective memory you have there...''... But i dont blame you Achiro... If i was thwarted and shown evidence that contridicts what ive said then thats all id say too...
> 
> So tell me this... If he can post about Bowtech and SA and Elite and call them out... Why cant the same be done to him?
> 
> ...


It's funny how you guys like to leave out all the stuff that happens up to the point where Kevin tries to defend himself. You just like to remember the parts where he does. Even Kevin admits that there are things in his life that he could have done better, all of us do. The difference is we don't all have people with an agenda following us around on the internet doing everything they can to make us look bad. You have an agenda, you have admitted to it. It's pretty sad. Why anyone would take your word for anything I don't know.


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## FCFCharlie (Mar 18, 2010)

achiro said:


> It's funny how you guys like to leave out all the stuff that happens up to the point where Kevin tries to defend himself. You just like to remember the parts where he does. Even Kevin admits that there are things in his life that he could have done better, all of us do. The difference is we don't all have people with an agenda following us around on the internet doing everything they can to make us look bad. You have an agenda, you have admitted to it. It's pretty sad. Why anyone would take your word for anything I don't know.


x 2


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## kkrueger (Oct 11, 2008)

FCFCharlie said:


> x 2


x 3


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

Gotta admit DeepFried. He makes good points.


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

achiro said:


> It's funny how you guys like to leave out all the stuff that happens up to the point where Kevin tries to defend himself. You just like to remember the parts where he does. Even Kevin admits that there are things in his life that he could have done better, all of us do. The difference is we don't all have people with an agenda following us around on the internet doing everything they can to make us look bad. You have an agenda, you have admitted to it. It's pretty sad. Why anyone would take your word for anything I don't know.



Yes i do have an agenda. And that agenda is to pass info on to the archery community... Whats important to note is that it takes motivation to have an agenda... 

''Education isn't a part of my agenda, it IS my agenda.'' Kenny Guinn


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## Rage76 (May 9, 2009)

why the hell would u go post something about someone and u didnt know the facts??? Thats whats wrong with people like u!!!


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

I have made all my points here. Thanks to everyone that had a constructive, realitive post. And i do mean everyone... Achiro and all those that despise me included...lol. Thanks to the Mods as well. I knew when i started this thread that some extra work would be done by you guys. Its very much appreciated...


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

DeepFried said:


> I have made all my points here. Thanks to everyone that had a constructive, realitive post. And i do mean everyone... Achiro and all those that despise me included...lol. Thanks to the Mods as well. I knew when i started this thread that some extra work would be done by you guys. Its very much appreciated...


Have a great weekend...


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

LOL nobody even knew he left Bowtech.He chose to come on here and whine about it of his own accord.Nobody said a word previously about it to make him defend himself.Im trying to remember the Strothers archery timeline as well but I believe he announced that as well before people forced him to "defend" himself.


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## ike_osu (Jul 1, 2008)

I really have nothing to add to this thread and really don't care what happens to Kate, Kevin or K&K I just want to post up so I can be part of the cool club


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

achiro said:


> It's funny how you guys like to leave out all the stuff that happens up to the point where Kevin tries to defend himself. You just like to remember the parts where he does. Even Kevin admits that there are things in his life that he could have done better, all of us do. The difference is we don't all have people with an agenda following us around on the internet doing everything they can to make us look bad. You have an agenda, you have admitted to it. It's pretty sad. Why anyone would take your word for anything I don't know.


Good Post

I don't presently own a K&K and I have posted that Kevin helped me personally in a time of being on my knees for no other reason than to help .. heck I only met him once back in 94' and I doubt he even remembered that... 

Ya know as far as the consumers go .... I still roam certain forums populated by many folk that have ordered and received the product they paid for (When the wife is watching what I call "_Dancing... with fat people.... singing_" 3 days a week

I have not read one post stating K&K ripped them off or took their money for something not received ... 

So I dunno why there is a concern to post these people's personal financial struggle and drag them to the gallows with a personal vendetta or witch hunt ..

But that's just me .. 

Again I have no dog in the fight .. Heck I own a Hoyt .. just about the most "Drama less" bow to own.. but there is some cruelty in this thread that is truely shocking


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## sirrobinhood (Jun 15, 2005)

stixshooter said:


> Good Post
> 
> I don't presently own a K&K and I have posted that Kevin helped me personally in a time of being on my knees for no other reason than to help
> 
> ...


X2
Good point


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## Takeum (Jul 22, 2005)

Yup,,,, It all goes away ... THeir debt, their credit and their credability as well unfortunately for at least 10 years of their life... Hardly a good deal either way.


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

OP - Thanks for keeping the archery consumer and potential K&K bow buyer informed as that is what I understood to be original purpose of the post some X pages ago.


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

The exact same reason anyone would take your word.

:izza:


achiro said:


> It's funny how you guys like to leave out all the stuff that happens up to the point where Kevin tries to defend himself. You just like to remember the parts where he does. Even Kevin admits that there are things in his life that he could have done better, all of us do. The difference is we don't all have people with an agenda following us around on the internet doing everything they can to make us look bad. You have an agenda, you have admitted to it. It's pretty sad. *Why anyone would take your word for anything I don't know.*


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## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

Not being critical of Kevin as a bow designer, but does anyone think Bowtech has gone backwards as a company and performance wise since they parted company?


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## Andy. (Jan 12, 2011)

Blackhawkhunter said:


> Not being critical of Kevin as a bow designer, but does anyone think Bowtech has gone backwards as a company and performance wise since they parted company?



Not at all.


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## hawgdawg (Sep 8, 2002)

As For Bowtech, You May Want To Find Out Who Will Be Designing There Future Lines???
I Have Personally Seen A Faster, Smoother, Quieter, & Less Exspensive Line Of Bows. You Might Hold Off On Getting That 06 Bowtech If I Were You!!!!!

This was part to KS post when released from BT. Seems as the wording that he possibly could have already produced a bow while working with BT. Also in the same post he really blasted BT for several reasons (limbs strings etc).So I would say he can spew out the venom also.


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## TLB2 (Sep 21, 2008)

Im looking to buy a new bow and a Vengence is at the top of my list. So what if the company is falling on hard times. How many own a vehicle from a company that got all the bailout money? How about the banks that are running on bailout money also? Some folks blow $800 in a weekend partying.


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## Fiber Guy (Mar 14, 2006)

$800 is chump change

Extreme Technologies, Inc., doing business as BowTech, vs. Kevin Strother, Kate Strother (formerly known as Kate Robinson), Elite Archery, Inc., and Does 1-10: Plaintiff alleges breach of contract, breach of fiduciary duty, misappropriation of trade secrets, intentional interference with business relations, conversion, civil conspiracy, injunction, accounting. Suit seeks to enjoin defendants from direct or indirect competition with plaintiff's business, and using or disclosing plaintiff's trade secrets. 
Suit seeks return of all confidential information and accounting for and disgorging of all proceeds of sales of plaintiff's property. Suit seeks *$ 1.5 million* in damages and punitive damages to be determined at trial.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

TLB2 - there is one for sale in classifieds now....good price.


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## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

Blackhawkhunter said:


> Not being critical of Kevin as a bow designer, but does anyone think Bowtech has gone backwards as a company and performance wise since they parted company?


No I would say just the oposite. Heck even my 2007 guardian Kevin told me not to buy on his rant about getting fired, is one of the best bowtechs in history. Also my D350 is simply one of the baddest and most tuneable bows I have ever seen/shot!

But thats just my opinion. I like bowtech because they treat us constantly deployed military folks pretty good.


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## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

TLB2 said:


> Im looking to buy a new bow and a Vengence is at the top of my list. So what if the company is falling on hard times. How many own a vehicle from a company that got all the bailout money? How about the banks that are running on bailout money also? Some folks blow $800 in a weekend partying.


buy what ya want buddy. I loved my ross bows also until I needed parts. Ultimately I think you should shoot em all and let the bow pick you. I like a certain feel, but it seems like the new bow I pick every year just picks me!

Next year Im looking for a spot bow....thinkin maybe dominator pro, specialist or even an elite tour. Just think ya should shoot one to pick. Good luck and enjoy whatever bow you pic.:darkbeer:


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

The difference with the companys you listed that were bailed out.Is they have paid back their loans.Hence they are not being sued for defaulting on those loans.Not to mention even when they werent paid back you knew that they had backing.In this instance there is none of that here.


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## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

MadBullArchery said:


> No I would say just the oposite. Heck even my 2007 guardian Kevin told me not to buy on his rant about getting fired, is one of the best bowtechs in history. Also my D350 is simply one of the baddest and most tuneable bows I have ever seen/shot!
> 
> But thats just my opinion. I like bowtech because they treat us constantly deployed military folks pretty good.


I thought the same. I have 2 Destroyers and a Captain, they also have some great bows in their 2011 line up.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> The difference with the companys you listed that were bailed out.Is they have paid back their loans.Hence they are not being sued for defaulting on those loans.Not to mention even when they werent paid back you knew that they had backing.In this instance there is none of that here.


You are making it sound like K&K the company is being sued for defaulting on a loan. Is this true?


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

CdBurner said:


> You are making it sound like K&K the company is being sued for defaulting on a loan. Is this true?


Probably not the company, but Kevin and Kate for money that they never repaid.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

DeepFried said:


> The contract was not the ''real'' reason KS left SA from what i understand. But i dont have any facts to back it up so its just hearsay. Albeit reliable hearsay....


These any many other statements by Kevin S., point to a brief history in the Archery World.

*The Ohio Outdoors, 01-13-2011 10:04 PM*
----------------------------
_K&K Vengeance is done!!!

Kevin Strother

I have designed and licensed compound bow designs to numerous companies for 27 years.


Co-founded Bowtech in 1999, sold my part out in 2005, left in Nov 2005.

Designed bows for Elite under a consultant agreement from 2006-2009.

Allowed my name to be used (HUGE mistake) for Strother Archery, and after signing a 2 year extension of my design contract in June 2010, SA breached the contract in Oct 2010 we parted ways!!!

My wife Kate and I are making a limited production of 1500 total bows with 2 models for 2011.
When my design contracts expire I don't just keep designing for free. I have never been an employee of a archery company except after I sold out my part of Bowtech and that was only for a few months.

That is the real story._​----------------------------


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## link06 (Mar 3, 2008)

Schpankme said:


> These any many other statements by Kevin S., point to a brief history in the Archery World.
> 
> *The Ohio Outdoors, 01-13-2011 10:04 PM*
> ----------------------------
> ...


Well their you have it!


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

The facts are that Kevin and Kate are attempting through bankruptcy to discharge debts they owe to one or more individuals or entities. Under what the general public knows, based on what the Strothers have presented as their life and lifestyle, this appears to be an integrity issue.

The fact that they are also running what appears to be a successful bow company, living high on the hog based on their YouTube videos I think is what rubs people the wrong way. In addition, it seems like dealings with him always end in a wake of destruction make his personal issues relevant for the potential bow buyer, especially if K&K is set up as an LLC.

Nobody questions whether the man can design a great bow.


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

wellingtontx said:


> The facts are that Kevin and Kate are attempting through bankruptcy to discharge debts they owe to one or more individuals or entities. Under what the general public knows, based on what the Strothers have presented as their life and lifestyle, this appears to be an integrity issue.
> 
> The fact that they are also running what appears to be a successful bow company, living high on the hog based on their YouTube videos I think is what rubs people the wrong way. In addition, it seems like dealings with him always end in a wake of destruction make his personal issues relevant for the potential bow buyer, especially if K&K is set up as an LLC.
> 
> Nobody questions whether the man can design a great bow.


ya, those youtube videos really blow my mind! they really do think they are some kind of rock stars or something....

if ya ask me...she's a tad bit annoying in the videos


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Scottie/PA said:


> So, renting a house and owning a 2003 Hummer is "High on the Hog"? I would be impressed if you knew half of what is going on, but you don't.


well from the video of them cooking in the kitchen; their house does look very nice...lets say very modern, functshway, hipster?


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

Scottie you don't know what I know, so you should be impressed. Is it OK with you that they are not going to pay their debts ?


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

wellingtontx said:


> Scottie you don't know what I know, so you should be impressed. Is it OK with you that they are not going to pay their debts ?


I don't get my info through the grapevine. I speak with Kevin on the phone, do you?? And no I don't judge people for what they do with their personal finances.


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## Fiber Guy (Mar 14, 2006)

Scottie/PA said:


> I don't get my info through the grapevine. I speak with Kevin on the phone, do you?? And no I don't judge people for what they do with their personal finances.


I doubt anybody but you would regard that as a credible source of information.


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## flatlineks (Nov 26, 2009)

Wellingtontx = :ban:


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

wellingtontx said:


> Scottie you don't know what I know, so you should be impressed. Is it OK with you that they are not going to pay their debts ?



In 2010, there were 1.6 million filings for bankrupty. I suppose all those people are going to hell too.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

Fiber Guy said:


> I doubt anybody but you would regard that as a credible source of information.


Yes I would much rather get my info on here. :set1_applaud:


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## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

Scottie/PA said:


> In 2010, there were 1.6 million filings for bankrupty. I suppose all those people are going to hell too.


I hope nobody is going to hell for financial reasons. 

But Scotty I do have to admit, as a friend/business associate you are doing a good job at defending him. Bravo!

I still refer to history as record keeper pointed out though....KS has done a substantial amount of putting down his ex companies. So none of the bashing he is receiving surprises me. 

But once again...good for you for being there for him.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

MadBullArchery said:


> I hope nobody is going to hell for financial reasons.
> 
> But Scotty I do have to admit, as a friend/business associate you are doing a good job at defending him. Bravo!
> 
> ...


He has always been good to me or my customers. Can't complain about that. I'm not saying the guy does everything right. We know he doesn't. I just don't like how the guys on here judge them over their filing. Like I said, 1.6M filings in 2010.

OK, I am done defending. Just wanted to say what I needed to.


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## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

Scottie/PA said:


> He has always been good to me or my customers. Can't complain about that. I'm not saying the guy does everything right. We know he doesn't. I just don't like how the guys on here judge them over their filing. Like I said, 1.6M filings in 2010.
> 
> OK, I am done defending. Just wanted to say what I needed to.


Like I said good on ya. I think you took the appropriate stance for someone in your position.


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

Scottie/PA said:


> He has always been good to me or my customers. Can't complain about that. I'm not saying the guy does everything right. We know he doesn't. I just don't like how the guys on here judge them over their filing. Like I said, 1.6M filings in 2010.
> 
> OK, I am done defending. Just wanted to say what I needed to.


Scotty you have always seemed like a super nice guy to me.The filings of the other 1.6mill people dont possibley effect archers the way this 1 filing does.Like I said,possibley.


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

Just because others do it doesn't make it right, especially when folks file just to wipe the slate clean when they have the means to pay their debts and a method to repay the people they owe.


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## big treble (Jan 1, 2011)

Buster of Xs said:


> K-cars were Chrysler product. And "K" had nothing to do with K-Mart! :lol: It was about a specific part of the cars' design, not a retail store. But, yes, Chrysler is still in business (at our cost).


Maybe When Kmart is done bailing out "GM"'s K car they can bail out K & K Archery and It'll be K&k&k archery and auto.

Thought this poster was sarcastic when he mixed kmart and GM


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## big treble (Jan 1, 2011)

Scottie/PA said:


> I don't get my info through the grapevine. I speak with Kevin on the phone, do you?? And no I don't judge people for what they do with their personal finances.



So if I come to your shop and you deem me as a good friend or customer, and spend 1500.00, leave under the condition I'm going to pay you next week and then file Bankrupcy on you, you promise not to pass judgement on me?

How do I get to your shop to buy a bow?

Maybe I think differently since I(my business and personal) have opened mail from circut courts and seen my name in a list with others indicating that I have no longer a legal claim to money owed to me.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

Since we obviously have bankruptcy experts here. I mean really obviously (rand98201, jsbooner, fiberguy, wellingtontx,bigtreble and many others).

Please teach me about bankruptcy. Does the current bankruptcy protection laws relinquish you from ever paying existing debts (as a few of you are insinuating) or does it just allow the law to prioritize your debts and schedule how you are to PAY them in order to keep from loosing your current assets?

I know back in the middle of the last decade you could just file bankruptcy and everything went away. But I thought they changed that. You keyboard experts please educate me. You've made it clear you are experts and I profess I am not.

Thanks


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

Dear god,you guys do realize K mart had nothing to do with the K car correct? it wasnt even a GM product either.It was a Chrysler product and the K is the platform some of their cars at the time shared.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> Dear god,you guys do realize K mart had nothing to do with the K car correct? it wasnt even a GM product either.It was a Chrysler product and the K is the platform some of their cars at the time shared.


Thanks for avoiding my question. Lmao at you.


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## Bowman338 (Mar 23, 2007)

The gm and k car post was sarcasm 
im sure the guy that posted it was tyring to change the course of this thread.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bsp5019 said:


> ya, those youtube videos really blow my mind! they really do think they are some kind of rock stars or something....
> 
> if ya ask me...she's *a tad* bit annoying in the videos


a tad?? A TAD??!!! look in the dictionary under ANNOYING and there's her picture!!!


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

*******REPOST********


Since we obviously have bankruptcy experts here. I mean really obviously (rand98201, jsbooner, fiberguy, wellingtontx,bigtreble and many others).

Please teach me about bankruptcy. Does the current bankruptcy protection laws relinquish you from ever paying existing debts (as a few of you are insinuating) or does it just allow the law to prioritize your debts and schedule how you are to PAY them in order to keep from loosing your current assets?

I know back in the middle of the last decade you could just file bankruptcy and everything went away. But I thought they changed that. You keyboard experts please educate me. You've made it clear you are experts and I profess I am not.

Thanks


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## yotebuster (Aug 12, 2009)

Glad this thread wasn't removed...I was thinking of getting a K&K vengeance on the classifieds!


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

Cdburner why don't you go read section 523 of the Bankruptcy Code, it should answer your question. Expert - yes.


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## HogHunterInFl (Aug 27, 2003)

yotebuster said:


> Glad this thread wasn't removed...I was thinking of getting a K&K vengeance on the classifieds!


Go buy it.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

wellingtontx said:


> Cdburner why don't you go read section 523 of the Bankruptcy Code, it should answer your question. Expert - yes.


No thanks. I'm sure you could just answer my question though.

Sad part is, I said please and asked nicely. Shows how nice a guy you are. Archer helping a fellow archer who asked for help. How nice of you.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

yotebuster said:


> Glad this thread wasn't removed...I was thinking of getting a K&K vengeance on the classifieds!


So whats stopping you?
I have two K&K bows and looking at buying #3 as we speak!


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## wellingtontx (Jun 8, 2010)

CDburner - the answer to your question is not as simple as you would like. That is why I direcected you to the applicable statutory provision for you to answer your question. Instead of you taking the reference as a positive response you would rather be a smart alec. Enjoy your evening.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

wellingtontx said:


> CDburner - the answer to your question is not as simple as you would like. That is why I direcected you to the applicable statutory provision for you to answer your question. Instead of you taking the reference as a positive response you would rather be a smart alec. Enjoy your evening.


I'm guessing you're an attorney....

Btw- I prefer smarty pants.


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## big treble (Jan 1, 2011)

CdBurner said:


> *******REPOST********
> 
> 
> Since we obviously have bankruptcy experts here. I mean really obviously (rand98201, jsbooner, fiberguy, wellingtontx,bigtreble and many others).
> ...


well cdburner, I only made the one post that talked bout this (besides polking fun at the GM+Kmart car thing) never claimed to be an expert, only indicate it not fun to get filed on. Know there is several types including chapter 7, 11 and 13 and yes at least one of the types restructures and the claimant is required to still pay back 100% of the debt owed at reduced rates and extended terms and one absolves 100% of the debt owed and lets the claimant walk away from all debtors filed on. I have no idea which way Kevin and kate filed you could probably search the link of the OP if you chose to. 

I have only been filed on a couple of cases don't remember which way the claimant filed, only remembered those people got my services and I got Nothing and that sux big time. most folks that I know have filed, have filed because of serious mismanagement of funds. And yes I have little respect for them(so. I'm sorry i'm judging them). Any that file due to unforseen health circumsatances or loss of job, I have compassion for. The latter situation is generaly out of their control and is what Bankrupsy court is really for.

Again If people can't add and subtract their own checkbook I really not only don't feel sorry for them but am mad because it screws sombody else


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

Thanks BT. You know more than me. I was only wondering what filing for bankruptcy actually meant. It seemed those posting about it new much more than me and could educate me a little so I could form my own opinion. 

I appreciate your answer. Thanks a lot.


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## Angry American (May 5, 2011)

I think Keven Needs to Take Kate and just go off to Paris or On a Cruise ship and just get away..If he wont I will ... This whole thing is way Out of hand.. This is nothing new-


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## 188 Inches (Oct 9, 2007)

CdBurner said:


> Thanks BT. You know more than me. I was only wondering what filing for bankruptcy actually meant. It seemed those posting about it new much more than me and could educate me a little so I could form my own opinion.
> 
> I appreciate your answer. Thanks a lot.


The filing of a BK actually means nothing. That's just the initial process. You can file to stop immediate legal action while you weigh your legal options, amend your BK filing to a Chapter 7/13 for personal or 11 for business, or file a Motion to dismiss. 

Bankruptcy is actually an old Biblical principal. Nehemiah 10:31b: "Every seven years we will let our fields rest, and we will cancel all debts." 

Deuteronomy 15:1-2: "Every seven years you must announce, "The LORD says loans do not need to be paid back." Then if you have loaned money to another Israelite, you can no longer ask for payment. - 

"At the end of every seventh year you must cancel your debts. This is how it must be done. Creditors must cancel the loans they have made to their fellow Israelite. They must not demand payment from their neighbors or relatives, for the LORD's time of release has arrived. 


As to what filing a BK actually means as far as a person's character is concerned is undefinable. Despite the hate being put forth here in this post. Filing a BK is not a reflection of anything good or bad. There are many good and decent people who have filed and evil greedy wicked peope who have never filed for bankruptcy protection.

One of the greatest Biblical characters that ever lived named "Job" lost everything he had and had he been alive today would have been declared bankrupt. 

The list of famous entertainers who have filed for bankruptcy is long and surprising. It includes singers and actors alike. One of the most infamous cases on the list is that of country singer Willie Nelson (he released The IRS Tapes: Who'll Buy My Memories?) to pay that debt , Tammy Wynette, Merle Haggard, George Jones and Johnny Paycheck also filed for bankruptcy.

The list of famous rockers that have filed for bankruptcy include Tom Petty, David Cross, Toni Braxton, Elton John, Meat Loaf, M C Hammer and Ted Nugent. Other names you can add are Jerry Lee Lewis, Chaka Khan, Marvin Gaye and Andy Gibb.

Numerous well known Hollywood celebrities have also chosen to take advantage of bankruptcy protection including talk show host Larry King. Actors that have needed a bankruptcy protection include Kim Basinger, Mickey Rooney, Burt Reynolds, Gary Coleman, Lynn Redgrave, Nicolas Cage, Margot Kidman and Lorraine Bracco.

Even though they spend our money like drunken sailors there are many good and bad American politicians that have filed for bankruptcy also including our 18th president, Ulysses S. Grant, and our 25th president, William McKinley.

Former Vice President Levi Morton and presidential nominee George McGovern are other famous politicians who have filed. John Connally, the Texas governor wounded during the assassination of John F. Kennedy in 1963, went bankrupt at one time as well.

When you read the names of all the singers, actors, authors, businessmen, presidents and governors who have filed bankruptcy and then become illustrious American leaders or success stories, it brings home the fact that bankruptcy is not the end of the story.

Despite their huge paychecks there are a host of famous athletes that are included on this list of famous bankruptcy filers. Boxers Mike Tyson, Leon Spinks and Joe Lewis all asked the courts for bankruptcy protection, as did football player Johnny Unitas. Professional tennis player Bjorn Borg and Olympic gold medalist Dorothy Hamill each filed bankruptcy as well.

As to writers, one of the greatest American authors of all time filed for bankruptcy protection, Samuel Clemens, better known as Mark Twain, is just one of the famous authors on this list. Others include the creator of the Wizard of Oz, Frank Baum, Oscar Wilde, Susan Powter and Kate O’Brien.

If you were to look at famous business people who have filed bankruptcy the list includes such names as Donald Trump, Henry Ford and Walt Disney. Comic book pioneer Stan Lee chose to file bankruptcy as did the founder of Hershey’s Chocolate, Milton Snavely Hershey and the founder of Heinz Ketchup, H.J. Heinz.

The point is many good, decent, and famous people have filed for bankruptcy. Many of those men and women went on to do great things after their BK especially Milton Hershey. There isn't one man on this thread, that is ragging on the Strothers, that can hold a candle to the great humanity efforts of Milton Hershey. 

Milton Hershey is one of the greatest humanitarian and philanthropist our Nation has ever seen. The man was an amazing human being. Milton Hershey believed wealth should be used for the benefit of others and practiced what he preached.

The bottom line is those who are reveling in the misfortune of another should be ashamed and the Good Book says "you will reap what you have sewn." I for one would be very careful to gloat over the misfortune of another human being because God despises the prideful!


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

CdBurner said:


> Thanks for avoiding my question. Lmao at you.


I wasnt avoiding your questions I simply didnt see them since there are times I have things going on workwise and I dont have time to read every new post.So go ahead I and lmao at me?

To your 1st question of is K&K archery defaulting on a loan.No,well not that Im aware of anyways.This is a judgement against Kate Strothers for 280k that was owed to an investor from when Kate owned Elite.After that 280k judgement the Strothers have personally declared Bankruptcy.I think it was Chapter 7 But not 100% sure.Since we are not sure which type of Bank they have filed for and also have no details or ideas of how this will go in Bank court.

The thing I have said is that there is a possability that if they sieze assets that they may be able to also sieze K&K archery.In which case alot of archers could get hosed.I never claimed to be an expert nor am I a lawyer.I just have been involved in this when suppliers Ive had declared and companies in my industry have had similar things happen to them.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

188 Inches said:


> The bottom line is those who are reveling in the misfortune of another should be ashamed and the Good Book says "you will reap what you have sewn." I for one would be very careful to gloat over the misfortune of another human being because God despises the prideful!


Good post. Didn't want to take up to much space quoting the entire post, but you are right on target. 

BTW, I understand that radio talk guru Dave Ramsey is one of those who has been in the ranks of those you mention. 

Thank you.


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## rocket75 (Jan 13, 2009)

188 Inches said:


> The filing of a BK actually means nothing. That's just the initial process. You can file to stop immediate legal action while you weigh your legal options, amend your BK filing to a Chapter 7/13 for personal or 11 for business, or file a Motion to dismiss.
> 
> Bankruptcy is actually an old Biblical principal. Nehemiah 10:31b: "Every seven years we will let our fields rest, and we will cancel all debts."
> 
> ...




By far the best post on this thread. :thumbs_up


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## SwitchBuck (Apr 15, 2005)

+1


rocket75 said:


> By far the best post on this thread. :thumbs_up


+ 1


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## 188 Inches (Oct 9, 2007)

carlosii said:


> Good post. Didn't want to take up to much space quoting the entire post, but you are right on target.
> 
> BTW, I understand that radio talk guru Dave Ramsey is one of those who has been in the ranks of those you mention.
> 
> Thank you.


Yes he did and he went on to do a lot of good work and make a lot of money. BTW his BK was a result of a larger bank buying a small bank and then calling the loan. His BK had wasn't a result of poor management, greed, and so on!


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## BowButla (Aug 5, 2009)

SwitchBuck said:


> +1
> 
> + 1


+2.


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

BowButla said:


> +2.


+3 ...


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## big treble (Jan 1, 2011)

Welllllll why didn't you tell me those "IMPORTANT & FAMOUS" people filed. I Guess its ok for me and others to foolishly run up debt and not have the capacity to pay it off.

Again let me repeat, I understand it's neccessary in some circumstances(as stated before), I don't know why K & K filed. and did not pass judgement on them and would not until I knew the situtation. Perhaps some feel sorry for ALL of those who file, maybe we need to also feel sorry for the business they filed on. Most of the businesses were making deals and providing goods and services in good faith and the other end of the bargin was not upheld. Transactions are a two way street. Would you be upset if you purchased a bow on the AT classified and after submitting payment you did not receive the product? Since Milton Hershey was a good guy and gets a pass perhaps so should the seller in AT classified(only if he's a good guy).

I apoligize for stating my opinion(what was I thinking), so I assume you didn't twist my post as "revelling in others misfortune"


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

big treble said:


> Welllllll why didn't you tell me those "IMPORTANT & FAMOUS" people filed. I Guess its ok for me and others to foolishly run up debt and not have the capacity to pay it off.
> 
> Again let me repeat, I understand it's neccessary in some circumstances(as stated before), I don't know why K & K filed. and did not pass judgement on them and would not until I knew the situtation. Perhaps some feel sorry for ALL of those who file, maybe we need to also feel sorry for the business they filed on. Most of the businesses were making deals and providing goods and services in good faith and the other end of the bargin was not upheld. Transactions are a two way street. Would you be upset if you purchased a bow on the AT classified and after submitting payment you did not receive the product? Since Milton Hershey was a good guy and gets a pass perhaps so should the seller in AT classified(only if he's a good guy).


Lousy analogy.


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## big treble (Jan 1, 2011)

CdBurner said:


> Lousy analogy.


Filing on a debtor is not a business transaction gone wrong?


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## 188 Inches (Oct 9, 2007)

big treble said:


> Welllllll why didn't you tell me those "IMPORTANT & FAMOUS" people filed. I Guess its ok for me and others to foolishly run up debt and not have the capacity to pay it off.
> 
> Again let me repeat, I understand it's neccessary in some circumstances(as stated before), I don't know why K & K filed. and did not pass judgement on them and would not until I knew the situtation. Perhaps some feel sorry for ALL of those who file, maybe we need to also feel sorry for the business they filed on. Most of the businesses were making deals and providing goods and services in good faith and the other end of the bargin was not upheld. Transactions are a two way street. Would you be upset if you purchased a bow on the AT classified and after submitting payment you did not receive the product? Since Milton Hershey was a good guy and gets a pass perhaps so should the seller in AT classified(only if he's a good guy).


You obviously missed the point or refuse to receive it. Now I don't know the facts of the BK case, but from the postings original message it wasn't stated that K&K filed for BK so you're misstating facts. As to would I be upset if I didn't receive something I paid for, of course I would, but I wouldn't degrade the person or seek to humiliate them on a public forum. I own my own company and I had a major National bank (Lehman Brothers) file for BK after they committed to buying MILLIONS of dollars of loans from me. I have been on the wrong side of a BK so I do know the human cost. I had to sell those loans at 90 cents on the dollar to another bank and use personal funds to pay my warehouse line of credit off. 

One more thing I want to say... you seem to imply you own a business...well it is possible that, despite no fault of your own, that one day YOU might have to file bankruptcy! I don't care who you are or how rich you are. 

Suppose a man works 20 years at a local business as a carpenter. Never missed a payment in his life, great credit, and so on but then he loses his legs in a freak accident so he can no longer work. Next he loses his home and so on. Is he a dead beat? Should we post his BK filing on Archery Talk and laugh at his misfortune?? (BTW this is a true story)

The whole point of my post is even the best of men have been through a BK and despite your protest to the contrary a person or business can be forced into a BK situation despite the best financial stewardship and intentions. 

My post was in response to all the cheering and jeering of some at the misfortune of another human being and I wanted to show how misguided they are!!!

I am a Christian so I let God handle what happens to me and I wouldn't come on here humiliating someone about their problems and what is especially evil to me (IMHO) is those that are not affected in any way at all gloating over the misfortune of another human being. That is shameful and cowardly!

BTW I wasn't even directing my first post at you so not sure why you felt the need to defend yourself!


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## buckbuck419 (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm pretty sure this tread didn't go anywhere.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

big treble said:


> Filing on a debtor is not a business transaction gone wrong?


How is the Strothers personal filing of Bankruptcy equate to buying a bow and not receiving it


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## MadBullArchery (Jan 25, 2008)

Wow...now I have seen it all on this thread. Now god hates some of you for being mean. 

I wonder if he hated the strothers when they were bashing all their former employer (ie strothers/elite/bowtech). 

I guess we are lucky the big man forgives us for not being perfect. 

Lol


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

CdBurner said:


> How is the Strothers personal filing of Bankruptcy equate to buying a bow and not receiving it


If they sieze K&K due to the bk then the archers who put deposits down or pre paid for their bows lose their money.that equates to not recieving their bow.


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## 1955 (Sep 22, 2009)

CdBurner said:


> Please teach me about bankruptcy. Does the current bankruptcy protection laws relinquish you from ever paying existing debts (as a few of you are insinuating) or does it just allow the law to prioritize your debts and schedule how you are to PAY them in order to keep from loosing your current assets?
> 
> I know back in the middle of the last decade you could just file bankruptcy and everything went away. But I thought they changed that. You keyboard experts please educate me. You've made it clear you are experts and I profess I am not.
> 
> Thanks


A question.



wellingtontx said:


> Cdburner why don't you go read section 523 of the Bankruptcy Code, it should answer your question. Expert - yes.


The answer.



CdBurner said:


> No thanks. I'm sure you could just answer my question though.
> 
> *Sad part is, I said please and asked nicely. Shows how nice a guy you are.* Archer helping a fellow archer who asked for help. How nice of you.


He said please???



wellingtontx said:


> CDburner - the answer to your question is not as simple as you would like. That is why I direcected you to the applicable statutory provision for you to answer your question. Instead of you taking the reference as a positive response you would rather be a smart alec. Enjoy your evening.


I think that you missed an opportunity here wellingtontx. You should have charged him your regular overtime hourly rate (and from the looks of him, collected in advance) and really explained it to him.

Of course, most people know that these legal terms can be interpreted in many different ways and that the outcome is not always the same or even makes any sense. There are also NO cookie cutter solutions that apply, especially when all the facts are NOT in front of us.

Make some money.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> If they sieze K&K due to the bk then the archers who put deposits down or pre paid for their bows lose their money.that equates to not recieving their bow.


Why seize Kevin and Kate? Put them in jail? Is that what you mean by seize K&K? Because K&K, in the context of this thread, is supposed to mean Kevin and Kate not K&K archery. Unless...


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

1955 said:


> A question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please explain the words "from the looks of him, collect in advance" in your post. 

We all can't make your salary. LOL


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

CdBurner said:


> Why seize Kevin and Kate? Put them in jail? Is that what you mean by seize K&K? Because K&K, in the context of this thread, is supposed to mean Kevin and Kate not K&K archery. Unless...


K&K archery is what im referring too.I dont care about the title.Im not going to nit pick that.Its the fact it can directly effect alot of archers is my only point.So you can continue picking 3 or 4 words out of a whole statement and twist them any way you want.


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## Backstrapz (Jan 19, 2011)

rand_98201 said:


> K&K archery is what im referring too.I dont care about the title.Im not going to nit pick that.Its the fact it can directly effect *alot* of archers is my only point.So you can continue picking 3 or 4 words out of a whole statement and twist them any way you want.


Define alot?


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> K&K archery is what im referring too.I dont care about the title.Im not going to nit pick that.Its the fact it can directly effect alot of archers is my only point.So you can continue picking 3 or 4 words out of a whole statement and twist them any way you want.


Oh, I see. K&K archery is what you meant. Thanks for clarifying. 

You say " it can directly effect a lot of archers, is my only point". How?

I CAN win the Mega Millions this week, by the way.


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

I have already defined how it can effect alot of archers,see previous posts in the last couple pages.lets say its 50 or 100 or 200? however many it is.if we can give people a heads up and 10 of them save their money isnt that helping?


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> I have already defined how it can effect alot of archers,see previous posts in the last couple pages.lets say its 50 or 100 or 200? however many it is.if we can give people a heads up and 10 of them save their money isnt that helping?


So your saying "to help out and do your part to the AT community" you want to make everyone who puts a deposit down on a K&K archery bow aware that they are going to lose their money? Correct? And this is because The Strothers, who own it, have claimed bankruptcy in their personal, not corporate finances. Yes?

Nice of you to look out for everyone.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

rand_98201 said:


> I have already defined how it can effect alot of archers,see previous posts in the last couple pages.lets say its 50 or 100 or 200? however many it is.if we can give people a heads up and 10 of them save their money isnt that helping?


And "save their money"? You are insinuating they are going to lose their money. No doubt about that. Which is your opinion and not fact. Correct?


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## recurvist22 (Jan 13, 2010)

I really don't know how many times it has to be said, chapter 7 is filed on PERSONAL *NOT* Business finances. No money from deposits will be lost, no-one will be hurt from it, my God can we all just please drop it. It's supposed to be "archers helping archers", not "anyone who wants to argue about unrelated personal problems of people that will have absolutely no effect on anyone but them" Please lay it to rest, someone please close this thread because after 26 pages, I think it's gone on long enough. Apparently some people have so much free time, that they have to literally go looking for something to stir up controversy. This site isn't Youtube, it doesn't matter how many posts or hits you get. If you have nothing better to do that to pry into other people's PERSONAL lives then go practice or do anything even remotely productive because threads like this are helping


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

rand_98201 said:


> OMg,see I can use caps too.You dont know what youre talking about.THEY CAN SIEZE BUSINESS assets when you own that business.LLC doesnt mean your business is untouchable.So your wackjob Faunts and caps need to actually know what youre talking about before you look worse than,well to late for that.



When filing an individual chapter 7 bankruptcy, all assets owned as of the date of the filing will be property of the 
estate. Unless those assets can be claimed as exempt, they are to be sold by the bankruptcy trustee. In theory, 
your earnings from your labor/services after that date do not belong to the trustee. So you can earn income after 
filing chapter 7 and keep that income. However, if the income is earned using assets that belong to the trustee, 
there will be an issue. Merely transferring the assets to an LLC will not necessarily protect the business income. 
Provided that the income after filing, is not derived from pre-filing earnings or efforts, it will not be subject to the 
Chapter 7, nor reachable by the trustee.

My response is not legal advice for any specific situation. My response discusses general legal concepts.


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## Waynebow (Mar 9, 2010)

MadBullArchery said:


> Wow...now I have seen it all on this thread. Now god hates some of you for being mean.
> 
> I wonder if he hated the strothers when they were bashing all their former employer (ie strothers/elite/bowtech).
> 
> ...


 Interesting how and when the religious card gets played isnt it?
Looks to me like the strothers are reaping...exactly what they have sown....and fully identically in the same medium they went a sowing years ago.


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

How is it prying if it's on the internet already?

:izza:


recurvist22 said:


> I really don't know how many times it has to be said, chapter 7 is filed on PERSONAL *NOT* Business finances. No money from deposits will be lost, no-one will be hurt from it, my God can we all just please drop it. It's supposed to be "archers helping archers", not "anyone who wants to argue about unrelated personal problems of people that will have absolutely no effect on anyone but them" Please lay it to rest, someone please close this thread because after 26 pages, I think it's gone on long enough. Apparently some people have so much free time, that they have to literally go looking for something to stir up controversy. This site isn't Youtube, it doesn't matter how many posts or hits you get. If you have nothing better to do that to pry into other people's PERSONAL lives then go practice or do anything even remotely productive because threads like this are helping


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## Turkeyflacx2 (Mar 21, 2009)

Watching all of this go down and seeing all the fighting makes me wonder how many people on here have filed bankrupcy? Hmmmm maybe a new poll?!


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## hawgdawg (Sep 8, 2002)

recurvist22 said:


> I really don't know how many times it has to be said, chapter 7 is filed on PERSONAL *NOT* Business finances. No money from deposits will be lost, no-one will be hurt from it, my God can we all just please drop it. It's supposed to be "archers helping archers", not "anyone who wants to argue about unrelated personal problems of people that will have absolutely no effect on anyone but them" Please lay it to rest, someone please close this thread because after 26 pages, I think it's gone on long enough. Apparently some people have so much free time, that they have to literally go looking for something to stir up controversy. This site isn't Youtube, it doesn't matter how many posts or hits you get. If you have nothing better to do that to pry into other people's PERSONAL lives then go practice or do anything even remotely productive because threads like this are helping


No one will be hurt from it??? How about all the creditors? It just appears to me that the bankruptcy is being filed because of mismanagement. It hasn't come out if there is a bona fide reason for the filing as medical bills etc. Personally I feel the courts should take a real strong look at this case.


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## 2lunger (Nov 16, 2010)

hawgdawg said:


> No one will be hurt from it??? How about all the creditors? It just appears to me that the bankruptcy is being filed because of mismanagement. It hasn't come out if there is a bona fide reason for the filing as medical bills etc. Personally I feel the courts should take a real strong look at this case.


I wasn't going to post on this because I don't really care, but....IMO having a judgement enforced a couple of months ago for over $200,000 could be the reason. I don't know and I don't care...it's not my life. I hope the parties involved get it worked out and everyone, and I mean everyone, can move on.
With that said I am moving on to read something meaningful and useful to me.


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

Seems to be the consensus.

:izza:


hawgdawg said:


> No one will be hurt from it??? How about all the creditors? It just appears to me that the bankruptcy is being filed because of *mismanagement.* It hasn't come out if there is a bona fide reason for the filing as medical bills etc. Personally I feel the courts should take a real strong look at this case.


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## Elkwisperer (Feb 26, 2007)

188 inches,
Great posts! I have refrained from getting involved in this even though it has been hard. It is refreshing to hear from a fair minded logical person.
Even so, it goes on and they choose to ignore your very valid points. I have never seen anything like this. No matter how much you dislike someone, to wish ill on them is beyond comprehension. Kind of reminds me of the mob yelling "crucify him". This certainly illustrates how so many innocent men in the early west were hanged by the frenzied mobs and supposed "witches" were burned at the stake before that. WOW! this is one crazy thread.
The fact is none of us have all the facts to pass judgment. Bankruptcies do happen. The law exists for people/companies etc.. as a last resort. We don't know for a FACT what pushed them into filing. It may in fact be more than just the judment Further more in spite of what some of you seem to think it is none of your business. The company itself is not filing so until you actually hear that you are losing your money or warranty, chill out. Don't borrow trouble.


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## 188 Inches (Oct 9, 2007)

MadBullArchery said:


> Wow...now I have seen it all on this thread. Now god hates some of you for being mean.
> 
> I wonder if he hated the strothers when they were bashing all their former employer (ie strothers/elite/bowtech).
> 
> ...


I never said that you are being deceitful. But this is what God said about pride.

"I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and *will humble the pride of the ruthless*." Isaiah 13:11.

And that's what we see here...ruthlessness and pride and God will humble those who participate in it. God said it and He does not lie! Those who are being "ruthless" will not go unpunished!!

God also said in His word
"The Lord detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished."
Proverbs 16:5

" The Lord Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted
(and they will be humbled)," Isaiah 2:12


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

188 Inches said:


> I never said that you are being deceitful. But this is what God said about pride.
> 
> "I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and *will humble the pride of the ruthless*." Isaiah 13:11.
> 
> ...




... behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely. Jereimah 8:8

Tell you what, lets keep Religious points of veiw for the PRM forum.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

Schpankme said:


> ... behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely. Jereimah 8:8
> 
> Tell you what, lets keep Religious points of veiw for the PRM forum.


Let's not and say we did...


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## yotebuster (Aug 12, 2009)

CdBurner said:


> Let's not and say we did...


:set1_rolf2:


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

You guys keep talking Im going to go shoot my K&K Vindicator


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

I doubt that LMAO? I bet I could trade my Vindicator for darn near any bow out there, and not loose any value in my investment in anyway. Face the facts there is a lot of guys that like Kevins bows, and resale doesnt mean a hoot to alot of guys either.




yotebuster said:


> Uh....maybe because the owners of the K&K bows know that they want get very much for them??? Seems logical to me as I was about to order one due to all the hype...sure glad I didn't! Thank goodness for this thread! Informative as well as entertaining....carry on!


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## 1fast7 (May 12, 2011)

188 Inches said:


> I never said that you are being deceitful. But this is what God said about pride.
> 
> "I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and *will humble the pride of the ruthless*." Isaiah 13:11.
> 
> ...


X 2. spot on, couldn't have said it better


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## Elkwisperer (Feb 26, 2007)

You are a stand up guy admitting that YOTE. LOL
I have had my share of CROW before. Not my favorite.


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## yotebuster (Aug 12, 2009)

Elkwisperer said:


> You are a stand up guy admitting that YOTE. LOL
> I have had my share of CROW before. Not my favorite.


LOL! Thanks...another lesson learned!


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## Shinsou (Aug 7, 2008)

How much?

:izza:


CHAMPION2 said:


> I doubt that LMAO? *I bet* I could trade my Vindicator for darn near any bow out there, and not loose any value in my investment in anyway. Face the facts there is a lot of guys that like Kevins bows, and resale doesnt mean a hoot to alot of guys either.


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## bowcrete (Dec 29, 2008)

i wouldnt trade my only one for it


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

CHAMPION2 said:


> I doubt that LMAO? I bet I could trade my Vindicator for darn near any bow out there, and not loose any value in my investment in anyway. Face the facts there is a lot of guys that like Kevins bows, and resale doesnt mean a hoot to alot of guys either.


I doubt you could trade it for very many bows out there.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Are the Cams on the K&K bows licensed ?


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Schpankme said:


> Are the Cams on the K&K bows licensed ?


Yes....I believe the 970 Pat held by Rex


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

I disagree there is alot of guys thats would love to shoot a K&K bow regardless of all the feedback good or bad. 



jbsoonerfan said:


> I doubt you could trade it for very many bows out there.


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

Well I dont intend to find out this season unless something else out there intrigues me in 2012.




Shinsou said:


> How much?
> 
> :izza:


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

rodney482 said:


> Yes....I believe the 970 Pat held by Rex


Thx Rodney, I should have just PM's you.


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## mt hunter22 (Dec 16, 2007)

bloodtrail1 said:


> Have your buddies PM me, I very well may be interested in buying some more K&K bows!


dont hog them all put me in line for a all black 70 pound vengeance..:teeth:


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

Good gravy fellers ... 

The folks that want to buy a K&K will do so no matter what anybody says here... The haters will still hate ..

Who cares? ... Don't you get it ? ... Who cares? 

Buy what you want and shoot it the best you can .. Be happy and have a full freezer ..

What else is there aside from drama ? that so many seem to need ... Whatever if that's your deal ...

Amazing ...


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## link06 (Mar 3, 2008)

stixshooter said:


> Good gravy fellers ...
> 
> The folks that want to buy a K&K will do so no matter what anybody says here... The haters will still hate ..
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself!


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## strk3 (May 25, 2010)

leave them alone!! Donald Trump did it and end up god to all these tv watchers he ended up screwind the little guys(carpentars, tile installers, cooks) go FIGURE


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## E Jackovic (Nov 13, 2010)

*Not worried*

K&K's are great bows anything that goes wrong can be fixed. The company will most likely remain. If money is your biggest problem get out of archery now.


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## jbsoonerfan (Aug 15, 2008)

stixshooter said:


> Good gravy fellers ...
> 
> The folks that want to buy a K&K will do so no matter what anybody says here... The haters will still hate ..
> 
> ...


Obviously you care. You felt the need to post on a thread that you think no one should care about, yet you took the time to put your two cents in. Ironic?


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

jbsoonerfan said:


> Obviously you care. You felt the need to post on a thread that you think no one should care about, yet you took the time to put your two cents in. Ironic?



Oh you got me o wise one ...

I don't care about the bows who likes them or who doesn't ... Or even if they stay in business ..I do care that people are being publicly flogged ... like them or not it just ain't right IDC who it is ... Unless of course it's Dave Watson .. jK ..

I regard Kevin Strother as a friend that helped me when I needed it on a personal level ..so around-here we stick up for friends


Are they perfect people? I'm sure they are not ..neither am I

BTW ... Go ducks! Looking forward to the Sooners getting spanked at Autzen again .. Crybabies .... That's always fun


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## link06 (Mar 3, 2008)

jbsoonerfan said:


> Obviously you care. You felt the need to post on a thread that you think no one should care about, yet you took the time to put your two cents in. Ironic?


Who would have seen that response coming, reminds me of the "I know you are but what am I" days of childhood! Do you think before you post or just post to help your count?


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## FCFCharlie (Mar 18, 2010)

Hey CDBurner, I know that girl. Excellent picture. :tongue:


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## bginvestor (Aug 12, 2008)

Say, you can talk crap to me and after your done, send me a check for $749!

Just jokin..



Dan Zawacki said:


> For some reason, I cannot edit my earlier posts.
> 
> I would like to apologize for the tone and content of those posts. I have come into contact with and been exposed to information that has challenged my perspective on the whole situation surrounding this thread. I have cause to take a serious step back, and question the things I thought I knew, and filter through a new, clearer lens the perspectives, and I am embarrassed to admit, assumptions and judgements that I find I have made.
> 
> Not that this next statement should be cause to impress anyone, but my next bow purchase will be a K&K product. I have not had a chance to test them, and know nothing more about the product than I did earlier. However, finding myself in the very embarrassing position of having spoken ill about a situation I thought I knew and was dead wrong, and potentially having had a deleterious impact (even if only a minor one) on the reputation of a family and a company that I had no business speaking ill about, I feel I owe them that support in recompense when time comes that I am ready and able to purchase a new bow.


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## bginvestor (Aug 12, 2008)

K&K have made their personal lives very public so this is one reason why this drama thread is exploding... Don't believe me, check Youtube and you can see a video of them cooking food in their kitchen... 





recurvist22 said:


> I really don't know how many times it has to be said, chapter 7 is filed on PERSONAL *NOT* Business finances. No money from deposits will be lost, no-one will be hurt from it, my God can we all just please drop it. It's supposed to be "archers helping archers", not "anyone who wants to argue about unrelated personal problems of people that will have absolutely no effect on anyone but them" Please lay it to rest, someone please close this thread because after 26 pages, I think it's gone on long enough. Apparently some people have so much free time, that they have to literally go looking for something to stir up controversy. This site isn't Youtube, it doesn't matter how many posts or hits you get. If you have nothing better to do that to pry into other people's PERSONAL lives then go practice or do anything even remotely productive because threads like this are helping


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## bginvestor (Aug 12, 2008)

I have a LLC and when I get loans, they are always tied to my personal credit. A business needs be established before credit is only tied to the business. If you have a start up business, you NEED credit to run or grow a business...




recurvist22 said:


> I really don't know how many times it has to be said, chapter 7 is filed on PERSONAL *NOT* Business finances. No money from deposits will be lost, no-one will be hurt from it, my God can we all just please drop it. It's supposed to be "archers helping archers", not "anyone who wants to argue about unrelated personal problems of people that will have absolutely no effect on anyone but them" Please lay it to rest, someone please close this thread because after 26 pages, I think it's gone on long enough. Apparently some people have so much free time, that they have to literally go looking for something to stir up controversy. This site isn't Youtube, it doesn't matter how many posts or hits you get. If you have nothing better to do that to pry into other people's PERSONAL lives then go practice or do anything even remotely productive because threads like this are helping


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

I'm thinking if you guys supporting them purchased the bows they wouldn't need to file. So start a thread to save the company.

If you cant sale 1500 bows you really don't need to own a company. 

Invest up and help out. 
DB


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## Backstrapz (Jan 19, 2011)

E Jackovic said:


> K&K's are great bows anything that goes wrong can be fixed. The company will most likely remain. If money is your biggest problem get out of archery now.


Yep. If you gotta decide between a new bow or make your double wide payment, K&K isn't for you anyway. Just sayin


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## locusthill1831 (Apr 3, 2010)

It's called an analogy, and no, I would not. My point is that all of us should shoot what fits. Nothing more, or less. Personal failings or attributes of the designer are not part of my decision making process. I think it would be great to have blind shoot-off, where all of us could try many different bows without labels or predispostions, and only then decide what to buy. I don't care what my buddies shoot, or what stickers are on their truck. I just want to score one point higher than them on Saturday. 

I enjoy the time with them -- away from work, family, or school responsibilities. I'm also competitive as hell, and that drives me to practice. I don't need the same logo on my bow to fit in.

Good luck recognizing sarcasm and deciphering analogies on other posts. Enjoy archery (that should be enough).



sandana01 said:


> So if he hid the taliban you would give him funding?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

the road goes on forever and the party never ends...

REK


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> ... I'm thinking if you guys supporting them purchased the bows they wouldn't need to file.
> ... So start a thread to save the company.
> ... If you cant sale 1500 bows you really don't need to own a company.
> 
> Invest up and help out.


Yes -- buy the BOWs, this would be the best solution.

Where's these 5 dealerships, they need to get these bows sold.


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## crow_sniper (Aug 14, 2004)

wow
this thread finally slowed down.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

crow_sniper said:


> wow
> this thread finally slowed down.


Any news about the 2011 designs?


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

This was a classic!!!


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## Belicoso (Aug 22, 2006)

CdBurner said:


> This was a classic!!!


Yes and a few die hards at that time(some changed their love by now) had to bite the AT dust and did get banned LOL.


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## RackAttak (Mar 7, 2012)

CdBurner said:


> This was a classic!!!


Lmao!


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## Beentown (May 14, 2006)

CdBurner said:


> I'm amazed at the people who line up to dig K&K's grave. It's sad...
> 
> It seems like not only will they did the grave, they'll wait in line all day for a shovel to do it.


Wheres my shovel? lol


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## dhom (Jun 10, 2008)

CdBurner said:


> This was a classic!!!


Did not own one and do not care about them but curious as to why you are using your shovel to dig them back out of the grave? Something new happen with them/him?:dontknow:


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## DocMort (Sep 24, 2009)

He is has been designing for numerous bow companies on the market. I won't name any names just take a looksy


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Plenty of bad blood still around....cant say I blame anyone for holding a grudge.


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## CdBurner (Oct 26, 2010)

dhom said:


> Did not own one and do not care about them but curious as to why you are using your shovel to dig them back out of the grave? Something new happen with them/him?:dontknow:


Called boredom


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## bowtecha (Feb 16, 2010)

Unfortunately seen that coming from a mile away


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## rand_98201 (Sep 24, 2008)

bowtecha said:


> Unfortunately seen that coming from a mile away


definitely


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Belicoso said:


> Yes and a few die hards at that time(some changed their love by now) had to bite the AT dust and did get banned LOL.


Good point!


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

CdBurner said:


> This was a classic!!!


:nod:


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

DeepFried said:


> :nod:


And you drag this thread up cause?
Your a .................?


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

bloodtrail1 said:


> And you drag this thread up cause?
> Your a .................?


Deepfried? No way he would never do such a thing. 


🎯


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

nhns4 said:


> Deepfried? No way he would never do such a thing.
> 
> 
> [emoji457]


Would definitely never do that. [emoji1782]

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

DeepFried said:


> Would definitely never do that. [emoji1782]
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Heard OA is headed that direction too. Been out of the loop till ya quoted me [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

DeepFried said:


> Would definitely never do that. [emoji1782]
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk





nhns4 said:


> Heard OA is headed that direction too. Been out of the loop till ya quoted me [emoji23]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here’s something for you guys, since you only drop in now once every five years...


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