# Conversion Kit for Hoyt Formula RX



## Gotbentdoinker? (Mar 14, 2005)

Attention! there is a way to adapt your old limbs to the new Hoyt riser. Now any limb using ILF system will work in the Formula RX riser! Check it out...


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## richardfrog (Jan 24, 2009)

What's the point of getting the riser if you want to use the old limb, why don't you just use the old stuff anyway, it saves money and makes you shoot better.


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

well thats pretty cool, goot job on the machining.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

If there's no negative affect on performance, this'd be great for someone (like me) who's interested in the Formula RX riser but is still not at a "final" weight limb-wise, thus not wanting to spend $600+ on limbs, or who likes the riser but not Hoyt limbs!


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## OldSchoolNEO (May 11, 2009)

Looks like a well thought out system.
Is it from Hoyt or something you fabricated on your own?


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

am not sure of the measurements but it looks like you just got yourself a 30+" ILF riser....whatever works i guess....


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## Gotbentdoinker? (Mar 14, 2005)

This adapter does not effect over all length of the bow...25'' riser and long limbs is still an overall of 70'', 27'' riser and long limbs is an overall of 72'',ect...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Guess I don't see the point really. Looks like one more thing to come loose to me...

Nice machine work though!

John.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

Gotbentdoinker? said:


> This adapter does not effect over all length of the bow...25'' riser and long limbs is still an overall of 70'', 27'' riser and long limbs is an overall of 72'',ect...


....Oops!...you're right...only the limb butt area was adjusted and the overall length remains the same...

was thrown off a bit initially..


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm kinda lost for words. 
I hope that the adaptor screws in VERY hard and touches the riser in lots of places to transfer loads directly to the riser.


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## animal stuffer (Dec 30, 2008)

Wouldn't the part that is attached to the dowel move as the dowel is adjusted left and right?


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

Nope.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Great design! Hope someone will make it commercially available soon !

Now we need a conversion kit to use new limbs on old risers ... :wink:


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## OldSchoolNEO (May 11, 2009)

Vittorio said:


> Great design! Hope someone will make it commercially available soon !
> 
> Now we need a conversion kit to use new limbs on old risers ... :wink:


Now that would make a seriously long bow!!


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## Gotbentdoinker? (Mar 14, 2005)

This kit will be on the market in 4-6 weeks...


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## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

Interesting idea---I'm impressed


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

The ingenuity of archers never ceases to amaze me! I am impressed as well, all though the folks at Hoyt are probably less impressed.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

richardfrog said:


> What's the point of getting the riser if you want to use the old limb, why don't you just use the old stuff anyway, it saves money and makes you shoot better.


I have to agree with this. Although the design is very well done and very clever, I don't think there is a whole lot of a point to it. 

I shoot compounds, so I am coming at this from a different perspective, but isn't the whole point of the Formula riser the new limb pockets? It might feel a bit different than other risers, but I am sure there are other risers out there that perform just fine without having to do that to them. The way I see it, if you get the formula you get the new limbs with it.


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## Brock Samson (Jul 13, 2009)

The point for someone who wants a Formula RX (or will want to use one in the future) but is still working up in weight is that you don't have to buy a new bow when you finally get there, only the limbs if you want to use Formula RX limbs. So basically, do you want to spend $600 or so in the future, or $1300 or so? Or, it could be for someone who likes the feel of the riser, but just doesn't like Hoyt limbs.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Actually, scientifically speaking.... if you have two variables you really cannot get an accurate conclusion. Thus, if you really want to find out if the riser works by itself then test it with the new conversion kit. Then test the new limbs (somehow) with a riser that has been proven. Then test the entire bow and see which one performs the best. Realistically this is an expensive venture for most, but since Hoyt gives out several hundred bows a year to European countries for sponsorship, those archers could run some tests. Obviously these sponsored countries have restrictions on what bows they can use (Hoyt only) so the archer would have to test one Hoyt limb against another Hoyt limb and the Hoyt risers against themselves as well. 

In my opinion these type of tests will give you a better performing bow than just taking the word of a top archer (who generally modifies the bow anyway) or the company who will NEVER say anything bad about their product or good about their competitors....


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

rick mckinney said:


> actually, scientifically speaking.... If you have two variables you really cannot get an accurate conclusion. Thus, if you really want to find out if the riser works by itself then test it with the new conversion kit. Then test the new limbs (somehow) with a riser that has been proven. Then test the entire bow and see which one performs the best. Realistically this is an expensive venture for most, but since hoyt gives out several hundred bows a year to european countries for sponsorship, those archers could run some tests. Obviously these sponsored countries have restrictions on what bows they can use (hoyt only) so the archer would have to test one hoyt limb against another hoyt limb and the hoyt risers against themselves as well.
> 
> In my opinion these type of tests will give you a better performing bow than just taking the word of a top archer (who generally modifies the bow anyway) or the company who will never say anything bad about their product or good about their competitors....


........+1..


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I guess part of my "what's the point" comment revolves around the fact that some continue to obsess over equipment, when any experienced recurve archer can tell you that the equipment is by no means the limiting factor...

John.


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## ScarletArrows (May 25, 2007)

congrats you have turned a Formula riser into a GMX...well kinda.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Does the conversion kit really cost 250 bucks?


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## PTTCarchery (Jan 31, 2010)

The price is undetermined at this time, Retail price of the kit will be under 250.00$

Sorry, I am behind on my number crunching...


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## richardfrog (Jan 24, 2009)

Rick McKinney said:


> Actually, scientifically speaking.... if you have two variables you really cannot get an accurate conclusion. Thus, if you really want to find out if the riser works by itself then test it with the new conversion kit. Then test the new limbs (somehow) with a riser that has been proven. Then test the entire bow and see which one performs the best. Realistically this is an expensive venture for most, but since Hoyt gives out several hundred bows a year to European countries for sponsorship, those archers could run some tests. Obviously these sponsored countries have restrictions on what bows they can use (Hoyt only) so the archer would have to test one Hoyt limb against another Hoyt limb and the Hoyt risers against themselves as well.
> 
> In my opinion these type of tests will give you a better performing bow than just taking the word of a top archer (who generally modifies the bow anyway) or the company who will NEVER say anything bad about their product or good about their competitors....



If the connection is perfect, the two variable theory works just fine. But engineered things are not perfect, thats why hoyt makes new things-to be one step closer to perfect. Since we don't know if this connection works just like a normal IFL, it would be adding another variable into the equation. I doubt this because I am not just taking the word from top archers, I do some thinking of my own. :wink:


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

richardfrog said:


> I do some thinking of my own. :wink:


Hey, that can be dangerous! 

I hope that you have done all the safety courses and are wearing the appropriate protective equipment. 

This is an activity that should only be done by suitably qualified personnel, or under their direct supervision in a facility designed expressly for that purpose. 

PS. I happen to totally agree with you.


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## PTTCarchery (Jan 31, 2010)

I have been sitting in the back ground for a few days just to see what kind of reaction this product will get...I had a friend post the original pictures because I did not have an account with AT. 

I am the engineer who designed this product and all I am offering is strictly options...

You now have the option to shoot the limbs you already own, an option to shoot other manufactures limbs, and an option to customize the bow the way you want to shoot it and not be locked into one setup.

Hoyt didn’t make the tec riser for one year...I feel they will eventually change all their limbs to the paralever system but until the transition, why mark all your pre-existing equipment obsolete? 

Here are the hard facts...

-The bracket is 100% cnc machined aluminum..Not a casting.
-The attachment screw is 100% machined stainless steel.
-This adapter functions off of the shim storage compartment of the HDS, meaning the limb alignment system still functions fully without limitations. 
-There is full function of an upper or lower stabilizer mount
-Can still adjust limb poundage 

Kit exists of:
One upper bracket 
One lower bracket
Two Limb pocket attachment bolts
Two dowel attachment screws

So far testing of the brackets is going very well....I will keep you updated...


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## straat (Jan 22, 2009)

Will it be available in pink?


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Richardfrog and Whiz-Oz. That’s the beauty of giving advice. You can use it or not. I give my advice from my personal experience or from archers I have spent a lot of time with and have had extensive discussions about why they do what they do. You can use it or you do not have to. 

Pittcarchery. Good for you! Nice that someone is thinking of a way to keep the archer’s cost down.


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

Rick McKinney said:


> Richardfrog and Whiz-Oz. That’s the beauty of giving advice. You can use it or not.


Odd. I thought that I was agreeing with you about the dual variables..


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## mantra (Feb 7, 2007)

Which of the two screws is used to set tiller?


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, out of a choice of the bolt that attaches to the original limb bolt position to hold the converter securely and the new limb bolt in the converter, which would YOU choose?


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

hey whiz...your usual questioning the question answers are getting boring!!.....and useless to this thread!!


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, I notice that you didn't answer his question either. 

What am I supposed to say?

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that someone couldn't figure it out....


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i didn't answer the question cuz i don't know the answer!!

...he was asking an honest question and deserved an honest answer.....not one of your silly and useless ones!!


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

Please tell me that you're kidding. 
You honestly can't figure out which bolts you would use for tiller and weight adjustment?


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

there you go again!!

if you know the answer then answer..if you don't---then don't..

i am personally not interested in this conversion kit as i have no plans of ever getting this riser and never bothered to figure it out but some people here seem to be and your wise-crack psuedo answers to an honest question aren't helping them any...


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

Okay. Here's my statement. 
I can't believe that for someone who gives the impression that they know so much, can't instantly see how it works. 

The original limb bolt is replaced by the bolt which holds the conversion fitting.

The other end of the fitting is anchored by the extension to the limb dowel end screw. 

The limb is altered for weight and tiller by the new limb bolt in the conversion fitting. Just like you would with any other limb bolt in any other riser.

Say what you like about my pseudo answers, but I now have a very good measure of your cognitive capacity.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

now that's the answer you should have given in the first place!!...thank you!!!

...and i only give answers or opinions based on experience and research...i was never interested in this kit for myself and never even bothered to think about it..

i left that up to guys like you!!


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

my own conclusion to this kit is it looks like a viable option for people who like hoyt risers but not their limbs...and whether hoyt admits it or not there are plenty of those around and is an attractive target market for the original inventor..


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

or if they have a pefectly good set of ILF limbs which they would like to continue using. Hoyt would do well to demonstrate some maturity and admit they're not the only bowmaker in the world that knows a thing or two about the subject.


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

It hurts to see two guys I think well of fighting.


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## mantra (Feb 7, 2007)

whiz-Oz said:


> Well, out of a choice of the bolt that attaches to the original limb bolt position to hold the converter securely and the new limb bolt in the converter, which would YOU choose?


I propably would have build this converter with two extensions to the dowel and would have done the tiller adjustment with the limb pocket attachment bolts.
The advantage of this solution would be, that you don´t have to remove the converter if you want to set the tiller or the poundage.

Additionally I would have designed a limb pocket into the converter which locks the limb in it with zero tollerance so that you don´t have play in the limb pocket two times.

And to answer you question (even if I honestly think that you are not really expecting one):
I would have used the original limb bold which is now in the limb pocket of the converter.

Btw.: I hate counter questions. If there is a question...answer it, or leave it! And don´t put this into a "what makes sense to you" thing! Can you honestly tell that there are only products out there, which make 100% sense to you? Not that you misunderstand their function, but maybe the designer saw things the other way?!

Btw2.:Maybe the right answer should have been: "If the converter is designed within tight tolerances, it would be techincaly impossible to use the converter mounting bolt for tiller and poundage setting cause the mounting bold will pinch in the converter hole already at a slight angle!"

So far about "cognitive capacity"!

I only wanted to know what I have to think about this product without holding it in my hands!


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Discussed about this product at the Italian champs with some major players in the Italian market, and they all were happy of this developmnt and wanted to get more infos asap. 
Key commercial point is that the existence of this kit makes esaier to seel the Formula RX full bow. Main resistance from buyers is that if something happens to Formula limbs (and Hoyt limbs reputation after 900CX has dropped a lot), they can't use their previus llimbs to continue shooting while waiting for rplacemend, and also thy can swith to cheaper limbs teporarily for trining purpose.. 
The kit will NOT sell a lot, is general opinion, but will increse the sales of the bow... 
By the way, somone was already deveoping a similar kit in Italy, and was surprised to hear he was going to be second.


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## PTTCarchery (Jan 31, 2010)

I appreciate all information and opinions gathered from this thread but please take into account that this product was NOT developed to be a garage shop hack job. There are specific reasons why the product is designed the way it is. I have spent a very large amount of time with this riser to know its ins-and-outs...If you have any questions feel free to ask, however this product is designed with all factors in mind including manufacturability, fit, form and function.

-The product is designed to use the shim storage side of the dowel counter-bore as a connecting point because it allows for the bracket to sit square to the riser and allows full use of the shim alignment system.

-If I were to design the product with two attachment arms, there would be added cost to the product because the kit would also have to include a new HDS dowel. The dowel access window is opposite to the sight window. This means the other side of the bolt is fixed. I would have supply a new bolt to extend the bolt out further to allow clearance for the attachment of another arm.

-Along with extending the HDS dowel out further adds risk of misalignment of center shot due to added tolerances of a new dowel.

-The tiller height still adjusts the same way it would as if the bracket was not there. You can increase or decrease the weight because it uses the same tiller screw the bow came with. You can even put the locking set screw in the new pocket.

-The bracket uses an attachment bolt that is tolerance like a stripper/shoulder bolt. Both the conversion kit and the shoulder bolt are tolerance so there is no (slop) between each other. Full use of the shim alignment system will further allow fine tuning.

-Please be aware this design is under a provisional patent.

-Kit includes Item# 1,2 & 4

This product will be readily available to the public in approximately 4 weeks…Price is still undetermined at this time. For other additional information about sales and availability please view my website at pttcarchery.com


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Could not find the referenced website pttcarchery.com. Please provide the full url. Oops, the one under your avatar works: www.pointstothecross.com. Is this correct? It looks like a club site. Don't see anything about products there.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i think vittorio's post indicated the best reason for getting this kit....cheaper than getting another formulaRX bow as back-up..

PS....i would get one in a heartbeat---if i had a formulaRX..


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## jgomes1992 (Jan 21, 2011)

I dont get this? why would you ever do this.... its like buying a bugatti and putting a smart car engine in it. Just save for formula limbs of settle for formula excell limbs there only like 280


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

whiz-Oz said:


> Okay. Here's my statement.
> I can't believe that for someone who gives the impression that they know so much, can't instantly see how it works.
> 
> The original limb bolt is replaced by the bolt which holds the conversion fitting.
> ...


Whiz, you're not married, are you?


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

A resurrected thread...was this product ever released?


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Whiz, you're not married, are you?


Not any more, thank God, and we're both much happier. 


After all the fuss made over this and the other formula converter, they just never seemed to be popular.


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## xxravenslayerxx (Apr 2, 2009)

Where could I get this?


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## Doug_77 (Nov 3, 2008)

Those considering non-Hoyt limbs on the new Hoyt riser should also look at http://www.uukha.com/en/produits-en.php - They sell a converter but it only works with their limbs...

Always nice to have options - d


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## Bean Burrito (Apr 20, 2011)

Good idea, but for that investment and the cost of some ILF practice limbs one could simply invest in a few pairs of the lower end Hoyt formula limbs. Good work though, hopefully you do well :thumbs_up


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

Bean Burrito said:


> Good idea, but for that investment and the cost of some ILF practice limbs one could simply invest in a few pairs of the lower end Hoyt formula limbs. Good work though, hopefully you do well :thumbs_up


But this is ideal if you are borrowing limbs from fellow archers or a coach while you go up in poundage. My coach has a stockpile of ilf limbs that I could use so why would I spend money on several sets of limbs when there are some available?


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## Bean Burrito (Apr 20, 2011)

x-hunta said:


> But this is ideal if you are borrowing limbs from fellow archers or a coach while you go up in poundage. My coach has a stockpile of ilf limbs that I could use so why would I spend money on several sets of limbs when there are some available?


Good point- it does indeed have a market, albeit small. I wish you guys the best!


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## xxravenslayerxx (Apr 2, 2009)

Doug_77 said:


> Those considering non-Hoyt limbs on the new Hoyt riser should also look at http://www.uukha.com/en/produits-en.php - They sell a converter but it only works with their limbs...
> 
> Always nice to have options - d


would you or anyone else know why the Uukha limbs only works with their limbs?


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## Doug_77 (Nov 3, 2008)

Sorry, no ideas! I suspect that it is a bit of marketing and a bit of a liability-issue - They want to sell the limbs, not the adapters...


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

I suspect that's a bit of liability rubbish. Uukha limbs are standard ILF, so if their limbs fit their adapter, so will any other ILF limb. if they made limbs specifically only to fit the adapters, then why not just make them to suit the Formula pocket?

I'm quite sure Uukha would like to sell you both limbs and adapters, as opposed to just the latter.


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

caspian said:


> I suspect that's a bit of liability rubbish. Uukha limbs are standard ILF, so if their limbs fit their adapter, so will any other ILF limb.


Logically, that sounds correct. The only part that could ruin your party is if the Uukha adaptors won't screw into the original limbs dovetail cap screw thread. I'm having my doubts as to there being a standard thread size for that.

Without doing the force calculations, one could reasonably expect that the mechanical requirements are slightly more what were previously required. 
They might have entirely threaded the dovetail fitting or engineered it differently. I guess the first person to buy them for something other than an Uukha limb will find out exactly what happens. 

I believe that Uukha also make full paralever limbs anyway.


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## xxravenslayerxx (Apr 2, 2009)

I have a pair of the Uukha adaptors. They are Designed to work with their limbs only. 
The end of the dove tail on all my W&W and other limbs are two thick also they are to wide for the adaptor as well.


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## xxravenslayerxx (Apr 2, 2009)

I have a pair of the Uukha adaptors. They are Designed to work with their limbs only. 
The end of the dove tail on all my W&W and other limbs are two thick also they are to wide for the adaptor as well.


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