# Field Archery Short Round



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

If you want to shoot an International round then do so...a field round however should not be touched in length or # of arrows.

You don't here guys complain about how long a round of golf takes....if they only have the time or can only handle 9 holes then that is what they do...if you only have time to shoot half a field round then shoot half....

You don't see people only wanting to pay for 4 holes of golf because that is all they have time for....:wink:

If you don't have the time on a certain day then just go to the range and shoot a little....

Would I shoot a short field round over a regular round HECK NO.....


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## Mr 560 (Aug 21, 2006)

Well put BH


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

Actually I have said for years a shortened round was needed..... I said 15-60 yards 3 arrows with 300 being top score. this would be in addition to regular field but may be a better alternative for shorter league rounds or areas lacking land.


And Hornet many a evening I see people at my club playing holes 10, 18, 1 & 2 for a short practice session or just a nice walk..... Just like when I practiced at TA I shot the lower half and cut the corner missing the 20, 35, 55, 45 & 15.

Just because it does not interest you does not mean it wouldn't be better or interest others....


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

DarrinM said:


> Actually I have said for years a shortened round was needed..... I said 15-60 yards 3 arrows with 300 being top score. this would be in addition to regular field but may be a better alternative for shorter league rounds or areas lacking land.
> 
> 
> And Hornet many a evening I see people at my club playing holes 10, 18, 1 & 2 for a short practice session or just a nice walk..... Just like when I practiced at TA I shot the lower half and cut the corner missing the 20, 35, 55, 45 & 15.
> ...


Going to play a couple holes for practice or getting in as many as you can before it gets dark....or cutting out targets on a field course while practicing isn't what I am talking about....:wink:

If there was ANOTHER round all together that would be fine....but leave what is ok alone....


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

A short round is exactly what this game needs. Everyone is pressed for time. 

Years ago, Sunday field rounds started at 1:00 PM. Even got attendance from the church going crowd. Nowadays you have to start by 10 AM...no wonder I will be a little hot in the next life.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Doesn't do any good to ADD more rounds to the matrix.

I don't know if you are aware of it or not, but the FITA FACE...has between 70 and 82 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROUNDS which can be shot on it...SHORTER DISTANCES, FEWER arrows, "part rounds"...

Yet, here in the USA, what gets shot ALL THE TIME....THREE of the 82...ONLY THREE.

Full FITA (144 arrows)
American Round...90 arrows
810 Round: 90 arrows.

I've tried numerous times to get people to shoot a "shortened FITA" as far as distance goes in order to get people involved..>TURNED DOWN FLAT...I get, "if they can't shoot full distance, then tough."

Yet these same people complain that we can't get the bowhunters or 3-Ders to shoot AMERICAN round, let alone 90 meter FITA...

Can't get TARGET shooters to try the Canberra, or the Brisbane, or ANY OTHER rounds excepting the FITA, 900, or American 810...they don't want to try it, don't want to hear it...

82 different games to play on ONE target face, and Americans are stuck on THREE and only three.

What makes it worse...the TARGET SHOOTERS won't flock to it either. The TARGET SHOOTERS won't shoot an "international round" because...it is "field season" and we NEED to get lots of FIELD ROUNDS in to get ready...ready for what? a state tournament with 32 shooters at it?

We've set up INTERNATIONAL rounds on the practice range trying to have two tournaments in one...FEW shooters bother, and the TARGET shooters won't show up to support it either!

Shortening the round ain't going to do the job either, IMHO. It will take PROMOTION by the members within and each of them bringing a new friend or shooter into field and teaching them the ropes; letting them build up to it...NOT taking them onto the 80 yarder and showing off, and thus intimidating the newbies.

field14:wink::tongue:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

While I agree that having a shorter round is a good idea I do not understand the comments that 'it takes too long'. I've never spent more time on an archery range than when I attended the big IBO 3-D shoots. Bedford, Erie, Nelsonville, Snowshoe...probably an average *3 HOURS* to shoot 20 arrows!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Mike2787 said:


> A short round is exactly what this game needs. Everyone is pressed for time.
> 
> Years ago, Sunday field rounds started at 1:00 PM. Even got attendance from the church going crowd. Nowadays you have to start by 10 AM...no wonder I will be a little hot in the next life.


But just think......you will have a lot of friends that will be hot also


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

We tried a shortened Field round here in Carolina a few years ago, called it the Carolina Field...dropped the Bunny the 80WU the 15 (I think) and the 45WU. It didn't bring shooters in...the fact of the matter is our attendance for those shoots was the same (or lower) pitiful number for the full rounds...

the only way to grow this sport is through promotion and exposure...before the past couple of years, few in this area had ever heard of field archery, let alone knew what it was...I went to all the local pro shops (and some not so local)...people looked at me cross eyed...I keep talking...OBT jumps on the bandwagon...jarlicker builds a premier range at DCWC...while our attendance is still pretty pitiful, we're growing (slowly, but growing)...I feel like things are looking up, and it isn't because of an easy answer like shorten the round...its work, hard work, promoting and providing a place to shoot...trust me I know I carved a 14 target range out of the woods with little help other than my 7 year old son, (for selfish reasons...I was tired of having to drive 1.5 hours to shoot a field round) but anything worth having is worth working for right...???


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

I think a shorter round without the birdie, bunny, fans and walk ups would be more marketable to the archery masses... Although I still like the full meal deal...


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## Archery Power (Feb 4, 2005)

*Field archery rounds*



JAVI said:


> I think a shorter round without the birdie, bunny, fans and walk ups would be more marketable to the archery masses... Although I still like the full meal deal...


JAVI a very true stateman. I like your way of thinking A short round would be liked by most of the archers, however I also would rather shoot the round that we now shoot.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Not sure how much shortening the round up will help with attendance? I know my club tried that a few years ago for league, shot an international on the field range using the 20-65 target butts, in hopes of increasing participation. Not the "usual" field shooters preference but they/we saw the need to try increasing participation. Unfortunately still couldn't get any new blood into the league, and yes, the few field shooters did continue to shoot the league in support. After a few years of trying the club has gone back to shooting a field 1/2 (14 targets) for league - still no increase in attendance, but figured we may as well get use out of all 14 target butts .

I don't see any reason why clubs don't put on 14 field rounds for their tournaments if they feel time is the main drawback....rather than trying to invent ways to shorten the current format.

You really want to save some time on the range, for larger (i.e. State, Sectionals, Nationals) make the lanes wide enough to accomodate at least 3 archers per target, assign 3/target (or 4 if the lanes are wide enough to accomodate 4 across) and instruct the group to all shoot concurrently. This should speed the round up to not much more than it would take a single archer to leisurely walk a course - i.e. maybe 3 hrs tops. This shooting 2x2 takes forever nowadays at some of the larger tournaments. Everyone shooting at the same time still allows for a leisurely pace without making things an all-day event. Not hard for whomever is between shots to call the next archer's arrows before their next shot - or even spot your own.

Just a few thoughts.........

>>------->


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

why don't we try the shorter field 300 for our distance shoot this spring?


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

One person on another thread said the field round was too complicated. Others have said it takes too long.

As far as the latter, I've shot both field and 3D (30 targets, generally - occasionally 40) and they always seem to take about the same amount of time. In fact, the longest rounds I've been on were 3D but some may correctly argue it's because they have more shooters.

As far as complicated, I'm not sure I'm interested in changing the sport because a few people can't figure out how to do a walk up (hello! Shoot one arrow from each distance) or a fan (hello! shoot one arrow from each stake). And, I think it is critical that those of us truly interested in growing the sport be willing to go out and shoot with new people in case they are concerned about how to do the above.

I honestly think, and I have no empirical evidence to back this up, that the main reason folks shy away is they are afraid of the dreaded "80-yard shot". (And, given the fact that many 3D courses are now catering to the 30-yard crowd, probably even afraid of the 60 and 65, maybe even the 50. I bet the vast majority of 3D shooters don't even have a pin setting above 40.) They've probably never been on a field course, yet may have "heard" it takes a long time so they continue to promote this complaint. (Hey, they're used to taking 3 hours to shoot 30 shots, so it MUST be longer to shoot 112, right?)

If time really IS an issue (then why are they shooting 3D?), then go try the International Round, I guess. If the 80-yard walk-up is a problem, then, again, go try the International Round. If "it's too complicated" is the issue, then, well, I guess I'm speechless on that one.

We need to get new people out there and get their honest assessment of why they don't like it (if they don't). I trully do not think it's the game, itself, that's the issue. That's the LAST area I would try to change. Muck with classes and divisions all you want. Change age groups, whatever, just don't change the game, itself.


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## JohnR (Apr 5, 2007)

Mike2787 said:


> A short round is exactly what this game needs. Everyone is pressed for time.
> 
> Years ago, Sunday field rounds started at 1:00 PM. Even got attendance from the church going crowd. Nowadays you have to start by 10 AM...no wonder I will be a little hot in the next life.


*EXACTLY!*


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

New blood is the answer, and we aren't doing anything to bring any in.

Example: A while back a member of my club was running NFAA field shoots at the club. Attendance was poor... 9 or 10 shooters at best. I talked a 3d buddy into trying this field thing out and when he tried to sign in he was told that as a non-member of NFAA he would not be able to compete for awards. They still wanted his 10 bucks though. To make a long story short, we packed it up and went to a 3d... Running closed shoots when nobody shows up is just plain stupid.

Example: Members of different states can not compete for awards in other state championships in NFAA. You can't even join both states to get around it. Once again, running closed shoots serves no purpose but to keep people away from a venue that desperately needs new people.

Also: Promotion Doesn't exist. I have an archery shop less than 5 minutes away and they were open for 15 years before I found out.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> New blood is the answer, and we aren't doing anything to bring any in.
> 
> Example: A while back a member of my club was running NFAA field shoots at the club. Attendance was poor... 9 or 10 shooters at best. I talked a 3d buddy into trying this field thing out and when he tried to sign in he was told that as a non-member of NFAA he would not be able to compete for awards. They still wanted his 10 bucks though. To make a long story short, we packed it up and went to a 3d... Running closed shoots when nobody shows up is just plain stupid.
> Example: Members of different states can not compete for awards in other state championships in NFAA. You can't even join both states to get around it. Once again, running closed shoots serves no purpose but to keep people away from a venue that desperately needs new people.
> ...


I gree with the statement in RED above whole-heartedly, but the "good ole boys' clubs" in MANY State associations are SO WORRIED about an "outsider" coming in and "taking MY award" that they cannot SEE and also refuse to acknowledge that they are running people off by the hordes! For every person turned away at ANY "closed shoot"...you not only lose THAT registratin fee...but ALL their friends that MIGHT come in the future too..so you lose not ONE...but MANY...all because of selfishness over a piddly medal or award.

HOWEVER...I strongly feel that ONE STATE ASSOCIATION "STATE CHAMPIONSHIP" per shooter should be the limit...You are allowed to shoot in OTHER State Championship events, but you MUST declare WHICH STATE is your "home state" and it does NOT have to be your State of "residence".

ONE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP, and then shoot as a "guest" in as many as you like. Same with SECTIONALS too..ONE section and as a "guest" in another...or how ever many you want to shoot in...but NOT ELIGIBLE for the Sectional CHAMPIONSHIP in MORE than ONE.

For LOCAL shoots, or 'qualifiers', or "aggregates"...the FIRST ONE should be OPEN TO ALL...but with the stipulation that the person is NOT eligible for STATE LEVEL AWARDS until they join...either now, or before, or AT that final STATE level event...but below state level...it should be ALL OPEN for anyone to try it out.

field14


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JAVI said:


> I think a shorter round without the birdie, bunny, fans and walk ups would be more marketable to the archery masses... Although I still like the full meal deal...


Super size mine as well... 

Heck I am still trying to figure out a round so we can have a target for 70 and 80


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

BH and then Field 14 have it right.

We need to ENcourage folks to our shoots, not DIScourage. So, someone better comes along. That's life. Is a trophy really all that meaningful if you KNOW that better archers were turned away for archaic reasons.

I think we should allow everyone their first shoot entirely free. And, make sure someone goes out on the range with them to help them along with any issues (and, while you're at it, tell them about how great the sport is, how much fun the State and Regional Championships are, etc., etc.)

Field's idea about the home state only championship - but allowed to shoot in any state, is a great one that we should be promoting. 

There just seems like so much could be done short of changing the rules or the game.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

If you're shooting a compound with sights and are even half awake there really isn't any challenge to the fans, birdies and bunny except aiming off your's and your shooting partners arrows... 

I'm not really in a hurry when I go to shoot, if I were I'd just skip this outing.. But they really are a waste..


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

JAVI said:


> If you're shooting a compound with sights and are even half awake there really isn't any challenge to the fans, birdies and bunny except aiming off your's and your shooting partners arrows...
> 
> I'm not really in a hurry when I go to shoot, if I were I'd just skip this outing.. But they really are a waste..


I with ya on the fans, but I'm Ok with the others. Problem is that there are a lot of folks that shoot field that would like to change it somewhat... some don't like walkups... but for each dislike there is someone that likes it. I don't believe the root cause is the game itself, but the management of it, lack of promotion, restrictive and protective rules, etc.

Yes, there could be shorter versions added to the mix, but you still have to get new people shooting, not just cater to the folks that already do.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

EPLC said:


> I with ya on the fans, but I'm Ok with the others. Problem is that there are a lot of folks that shoot field that would like to change it somewhat... some don't like walkups... but for each dislike there is someone that likes it. I don't believe the root cause is the game itself, but the management of it, lack of promotion, restrictive and protective rules, etc.
> 
> Yes, there could be shorter versions added to the mix, but you still have to get new people shooting, not just cater to the folks that already do.


Paul

I'm not say that I don't like the game the way it is, I'm just stating that some of the targets were more meaningful back when they designed the layout. With todays equipment they really aren't much challenge unless you fall completely asleep..


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

JAVI said:


> Paul
> 
> I'm not say that I don't like the game the way it is, I'm just stating that some of the targets were more meaningful back when they designed the layout. With todays equipment they really aren't much challenge unless you fall completely asleep..


true...


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

JAVI said:


> Paul
> 
> I'm not say that I don't like the game the way it is, I'm just stating that some of the targets were more meaningful back when they designed the layout. With todays equipment they really aren't much challenge unless you fall completely asleep..


A person used to shoot the longest stake on a walkup and then move to the next stake while his shooting partners shot the longest stake and everyone in the group moved up to the next stake until the group finished. The target stakes were spread and each shot had a distinct feel. Can't do that with today's shooters. There would be carnage on the butt.

The courses today are more vanilla. Old courses had to revamp their layout to eliminate the carnage. 

What I'm saying is that things change. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole doesn't work. Archery has changed and unless the only choices you want to have are indoors or 3D, the field game needs to change.

Why do we still find it necessary to shoot the 15-14 or 19-17. Why not just shoot 14 or 17. Silly little targets like those make it confusing to the beginner. Put yourself in a beginners shoes again. If your first experience on the field course is a Hunter round, you may think that there are just too many silly little rules to follow.

It's enough to just remember left or right - top or bottom target. The fun part about field shooting is the up, down and side hills, shooting over streams and from clearings to wooded areas 

The die-hards will remain, it's new blood that needs to be attracted and retained.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Example: A while back a member of my club was running NFAA field shoots at the club. Attendance was poor... 9 or 10 shooters at best. I talked a 3d buddy into trying this field thing out and when he tried to sign in he was told that as a non-member of NFAA he would not be able to compete for awards. They still wanted his 10 bucks though. To make a long story short, we packed it up and went to a 3d... Running closed shoots when nobody shows up is just plain stupid.


Don't they have a Guest Class for non-NFAA members?


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Mike2787 said:


> A person used to shoot the longest stake on a walkup and then move to the next stake while his shooting partners shot the longest stake and everyone in the group moved up to the next stake until the group finished. The target stakes were spread and each shot had a distinct feel. Can't do that with today's shooters. There would be carnage on the butt.
> 
> The courses today are more vanilla. Old courses had to revamp their layout to eliminate the carnage.
> 
> ...


Mike you and I both been in this game long enough to know they ain't gonna change the targets... but we can hope I guess...:wink:


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## archerycharlie (Nov 4, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Don't they have a Guest Class for non-NFAA members?




Yes there is a guest class at most nfaa shoots as far as i know.

I am for the full meal deal field also.:tongue:AC


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

archerycharlie said:


> Yes there is a guest class at most nfaa shoots as far as i know.
> 
> I am for the full meal deal field also.:tongue:AC


Yes, but the guest class is just that. You are not in the competition, your score doesn't count.


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## XQuest (May 5, 2003)

*Field round*

I'm with Mike 2787 on this but ChPro brings in a point that I thought about for some time.Why not spread the lanes so at least three or even all four could shoot at the same time.Trouble is that ALL of the targets have to be that way or "log jam".
I would think it would be an improvement if TWO competitors could shoot at the same time with the others calling.You say that's the way it is now?Not quite,we seem to always "log Jam" on an 80 or a couple of targets that someone thinks one side is better than the other and waits for a shooting position to clear.Whacha Think?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

XQuest said:


> ...we seem to always "log Jam" on an 80 or a couple of targets that someone thinks one side is better than the other and waits for a shooting position to clear.Whacha Think?


I don't think I've ever shot a course (3D, Redding, Field) that didn't develope a bottleneck on a hard target or two. 

They should take a *little* longer, but it seems they take *alot* longer when you're the fifth group in line.:wink: Insuring adequate shooting lanes and footing would do a bunch for speeding them up. Can't do much about those looking for arrows to long, or the ones that drag their butt ever so slowly to the target though...


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

XQuest said:


> I'm with Mike 2787 on this but ChPro brings in a point that I thought about for some time.Why not spread the lanes so at least three or even all four could shoot at the same time.Trouble is that ALL of the targets have to be that way or "log jam".
> I would think it would be an improvement if TWO competitors could shoot at the same time with the others calling.You say that's the way it is now?Not quite,we seem to always "log Jam" on an 80 or a couple of targets that someone thinks one side is better than the other and waits for a shooting position to clear.Whacha Think?


Most of our courses here in Maryland are set-up so two can shoot at one time. That's the way I've done it since the beginning with a four person group: two shoot...two spot with binoculars. Only on the rarest of occassions do we shoot one at a time.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

Most of our courses are set up to shoot at least two on a lane. Several are set up for four.

I haven't shot them all, but I haven't seen one that does single shooting lanes.


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## PA Deer Chaser (Dec 20, 2003)

The NFAA Target & Shooting Distances chart already makes provision for a 15 target 300 round in F, H, and A rounds - totally separate from the international round. You drop the 80 walkup and replace it with a 65 walkup AND a 30 walkup.

It might be tough to alter an existing 28 target course, depending on order of the targets, but if you were setting up a new one, it'd be pretty easy to do both a standard 28 AND the 15 target alternative on the same course.

Of course, you can always shoot one 14 target unit instead of all 28.

I think one of the selling points for field archery should be the fact you get to shoot 112 arrows in approximately the same amount of time it takes to shoot 20 or 30 at a 3D. Field archery is a _shooter's_ sport. If you like _shooting_ your bow, not just carrying it through the woods, the field range is the place to be! :wink:


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## henman (Dec 26, 2005)

Of course, you can always shoot one 14 target unit instead of all 28.

I think one of the selling points for field archery should be the fact you get to shoot 112 arrows in approximately the same amount of time it takes to shoot 20 or 30 at a 3D. Field archery is a shooter's sport. If you like shooting your bow, not just carrying it through the woods, the field range is the place to be! 


I agree with this.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

On our range there isnt a target that you can't shoot 4 abreast with LOTS of room between shooters.


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

There's too much nit picking and rules for field to be fun for most everybody now days. We discussed some of this after the nationals this year.

Do you REALLY care if the guy next to you shoots the left or right target or the top target?
If there is a 32 yarder uphill @35 deg. I can figure out if I need to start the day first or second so the course is never "fair" for everybody.

Get rid of the odd yardages and half the rules. There was a day when all four of us on a target could get along and just shoot our bows.


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

When you think about the dismal turnout at ANY outdoor spot event , at least in comparison to 3-D and Indoor........

What make anybody think changing any thing is going to help increase interest ?? 

There are Fita rounds, American Rounds , Field Rounds , International rounds and so on... all of them struggle to get any decent participation

What magical new round will change these FACTS??

Bottom line it's not the FORMATT but the desire for bowhunters wanting to shoot them. Bowhunters did untill 3-D came around .. Now bowhunters don't 

and I'm a bowhunter as well but you know what I mean. To the MAJORITY a day "hunting" is the draw and foam offers them entertainment despite the score .... You need to play on the facts instead of emotions

Change the round to a score based class sytem so ANYBODY can have fun "competing" with there peers is the first step. Once a year have a 14 taget field shoot.......... with broadheads ....on seperate one time use backstops might Be another. People want to know how far they can kill give them a dot at 60 yards and tell them to find out .. one shot one score and move on to the next official "field" station. High score wins a 3-d or broadhead target

Think "joe" not "Pro":wink:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Bob_Looney said:


> There's too much nit picking and rules for field to be fun for most everybody now days. We discussed some of this after the nationals this year.
> 
> Do you REALLY care if the guy next to you shoots the left or right target or the top target?
> If there is a 32 yarder uphill @35 deg. I can figure out if I need to start the day first or second so the course is never "fair" for everybody.
> ...


I submitted some agenda items in this regard a couple of years ago...to allow the GROUP to decide who shoots where for the ENTIRE ROUND, bunny choices, and several others....

FLATLY DENIED, I don't think that they even made it to the floor...Good ole boys will NOT CHANGE ANYTHING that is "traditional" such as shifting from top to bottom and left to right the second half...afterall....THEY might win that way if another shooter makes the mistake....

Heaven help if you should have consistency in INDOORS and outdoors by being able to go in ANY ORDER on the bunny target as long as you stay in YOUR column...THAT GOT FLATLY REJECTED in a hurry.

Some things just WILL NOT BE CHANGED....and the top to bottom, left to right, OR CHOICES...are among those.

Too bad, because with today's shooters...it is pretty OBVIOUS on a target when a person plants one in the X-ring WHICH ONE he was AIMING AT!

But so many oldies and old farts and good ole boys...carry a rule book in one back pocket...and a crying towel in the other.

GOTTA MODERNIZE, IMHO...but getting it done is next to IMPOSSIBLE.

field14


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

Which brings up the question of "Do we really give a damn if the NFAA sanctions a new round or target changes?"

I mean really there is going to be no innovation from that org for quite some time. But everyone seems to have a local club they shoot at. So you have 28 stations to play with. Get together with the guys/gals shoot 7 shoot 14 pick the distances you want and shoot those hey if someone says lets try a FITA 90m target face, pin some of those up at the stations. If you have a rubber chicken stick that at the station as well and try a Field /3D mix. They are your clubs and there is really nothing stopping you, NFAA be damned. Find out what works and what people like and what does not fly, be creative.

Theres a whole new forum where every club can exchange ideas on formats. Or make a most creative Field round contest. Send in pics an lets vote. If something is outstanding it might just catch on. See what encourages new members and what does not. You can make any changes you want, but if you really want change it has to start at club level, not from NFAA down.

Heres to the unofficial XFAA, the Experimental Field Archery Association. Membership fees - Post your X Field round format on AT with pics.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

JAVI said:


> I think a shorter round without the birdie, bunny, fans and walk ups would be more marketable to the archery masses... Although I still like the full meal deal...


I brought this up on another thread but I will do so again here. JAVI, what you are asking for already exists. It is the FITA Field round. 24 targets, and they are larger and closer (max distance is 50M or 55 yards). Only 3 arrows per target and there are no fans or walk-ups. And to appeal to the 3D crowd the first day of a two day shoot is unmarked distances.

What you ask for is out there...and the responce has been ZERO! My State archery association puts on a FITA Field tourney every year. Last year there were 9 shooters. The only reason it continues is because of one dedicated individual who puts it on, come hell or high water.

Sorry guys, but dumbing down field archery is not going to make the bowhunters swarm to field. Besides, if you change it to something else it won't be field archery any more.

Dave


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

I have often lauded the advantages of the international round as a VAST IMPROVEMENT over the antiquated field/hunter rounds of today. I don't expect that to increase participation by the masses; however, what it would do is perhaps MAKE IT EASIER TO INFLUENCE NEW PARTICIPATION.

I find that most 3D shooters don't want to shoot 80 YARDS and have little regard for the "trick" targets such as walk-ups, fans, very short targets, etc. I have the same disdain for fans, WUs, and the goofy short hunter shots despite my traditional field roots from back in the 50s.

Obviously, a shortened round isn't the total answer, but perhaps a partial answer that isn't quite so "frightening" as an 80 WU and the complex rules we live with today as we try to explain field to a prospective shooter.

There are really TWO MAJOR ISSUES we must deal with: facility availability over much of the US and public relations to inform/attract the uninformed. The 2nd is the most difficult as there are simply too many attractive recreation activities with which archery didn't have to compete 20 years ago. Ardent bowhunters are not the answer - they simply aren't interested. New blood is the pool we must draw from and that exists in the indoor ranges, 3D ranges, and youth archery development programs. These pools are not being adequately worked and that is one reason why I recommended working with pro shop owners to help promote field archery amongst their customer base.

Local clubs could work with the pro shops to seek out opportunities to introduce youth to field archery and to help in financing the building/maintaining facilities.

In talking with the President of the NFAA, I found out that there is a possible movement which will reduce/eliminate the inertia currently extant in the national decision-making process. If true, we may be able to see some of our ideas actually implemented in the future.

Regardless, if we archers don't do the job, there is absolutely nothing else in the world that will fill the empty shooter slots on the ranges. Money is not the answer, as it is simply an extension of the awards system - the same winners will win and the same losers will lose and if the entry charge is increased to create a pot, the number of shooters will quickly be reduced.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

centerx said:


> When you think about the dismal turnout at ANY outdoor spot event , at least in comparison to 3-D and Indoor........
> 
> What make anybody think changing any thing is going to help increase interest ??
> 
> ...


I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm not sure there is *ANYTHING* you can do to Field archery to convince bowhunters to participate. Most just do not care to shoot at a paper bullseye. Why? Got no clue. IMHO using fewer targets, shortening the distances won't cut it. I'm all for trying, I just don't think it will work.

I started in archery strictly for bowhunting. However, I saw these guys at my first club shooting at longer distances and figured hmmmm...if I can hit that dot regularly at 40 yards those 20 yard bowhunting shots will be a breeze.  That was my thinking. Maybe a similar approach is worth a try. That's how 3-D has sold their product over the years...great practice for bowhunting. Why can't we do the same? Just a thought.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Dave T said:


> I brought this up on another thread but I will do so again here. JAVI, what you are asking for already exists. It is the FITA Field round. 24 targets, and they are larger and closer (max distance is 50M or 55 yards). Only 3 arrows per target and there are no fans or walk-ups. And to appeal to the 3D crowd the first day of a two day shoot is unmarked distances.
> 
> What you ask for is out there...and the responce has been ZERO! My State archery association puts on a FITA Field tourney every year. Last year there were 9 shooters. The only reason it continues is because of one dedicated individual who puts it on, come hell or high water.
> 
> ...


Ever try finding a FITA field event in Texas... I believe there is one held each year... 

Sorry what we need is participation at the local level on a more frequent basis than once a year... we already have that... We have several NFAA field shoots during the spring across Texas, but the local club hosts one or maybe two... 

What we/I'm looking for is not necessarily less shots or a shorter course but something that more readily reflects todays equipment. The short walk-ups, fans and birdie/bunny are not reflective of anything but the past. I shot field in the days when it mattered if you took 3 steps right/left/forward or shot the left/right/top/bottom target but with sights and compound bows this is just silly. It has become so confusing to the beginner and casual participant that they just won't shoot it... 

Now our club has decided that you must be a member to shoot unless it is an open shoot. We used to be able to bring a guest but that has stopped. What a crock... I brought several students to the range last year and introduced them to field, almost to a person they became members shortly after... but now the club has dictated to me that I must buy each a membership before I bring them out... Sorry... it ain't gonna happen.. No more guests.... BS

Want to know why Field Archery is dying....

I just pulled the plug...


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## JohnR (Apr 5, 2007)

*Thoughts!?*

Agreed that NFAA membership requirement keeps some shooters away from Field shoots...but on the flip side if nobody joins NFAA or your club... who sponsors the shoot? That's a whole new thread in itself!!!!!

Archery is not on McDonalds menu. You cannot always have it your way or right now!

Something is wrong here! When compounds hit the market a 30% let-off was the "cat's meow", then it got so archers could not handle that little of let-off, hence came 50% let-off, then archers could not hold the bow back at 50%, so then came 60-65% let-off, now archers cannot handle that much weight either, hence 70-75% let-off...What's next 100% letoff??????? The same physical attributes affect the mentality of archers today....make all the rounds easier so we don't have to play so hard.

Take up chess!...NO WAIT!...you'll have to think too much!!!! I know, make the game easier and change the rules!

Get a life!!! Prioritize what you need to do and what you want to do. Don't expect others to do it for you, 'cept maybe your spouse might.:secret:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Hutnicks said:


> Which brings up the question of "Do we really give a damn if the NFAA sanctions a new round or target changes?"
> 
> I mean really there is going to be no innovation from that org for quite some time. But everyone seems to have a local club they shoot at. So you have 28 stations to play with. Get together with the guys/gals shoot 7 shoot 14 pick the distances you want and shoot those hey if someone says lets try a FITA 90m target face, pin some of those up at the stations. If you have a rubber chicken stick that at the station as well and try a Field /3D mix. They are your clubs and there is really nothing stopping you, NFAA be damned. Find out what works and what people like and what does not fly, be creative.
> 
> ...


I've sometime screwed around for the heck of it and varied things on the regular course; it HAS HELPED my scores when I went back to the "Real thing." But it took the boredom out of it too:

1. Shoot til you miss. Then, go get all your arrows, come back to the stake you missed from and you must shoot your entire quiver of arrows into the bulls-eye before you can move to the next stake in the round. Some days, you shoot a lot of arrows from a particular stake...others you get to shoot some targets. But you learn to MAKE EVERY ARROW COUNT...eventually, haha.

2. The "FUNTER ROUND"....that is, shooting the FIELD faces from the HUNTER bricks. No explanation further required. Shorter distances most of the time, lots of sight movement...practicing LOOKING AT THE BRICKS to get your yardages and setting your site correctly!

3. The "SHORTY round" Shoot all four arrows from the SHORTEST DISTANCE marked on the target...could be the shortest FIELD brick, or the shortest HUNTER brick...either way...gives you a lot of variation and mid-range practice.

4. The "Hot & Cold Round". I normally do this on the FIELD target, but have done it on the Hunter target too. This is where I INTENTIONALLY set my site "hot" by 1 full yard on one target and shoot all four, and then the next target set my site "cold" and shoot it; then alternate...This is a way to have fun and learn where your impact points are on varying distances with your site intentionally set a full yard "hot" or "cold." Then you go for 1 1/2 yards, 2 yards, etc...FUN WAY TO LEARN YOUR BOW/Equipment impact points.

5. The "BUBBLE ROUND". Same thing as above, only this time you alternate left and right bubble, to learn the impact point differences. Set the distance correctly, but INTENTIONALLY cant the bow. You can work in the "slant board" with this, keeping the BUBBLE centered but pointing your toes up or down, or your front foot up or down to PRACTICE on simulated "hilly stances".

Sure does help in the PROACTIVE practice regimen. to do the above.

One last REALLY FUN THING TO DO>>>>>

6. The FOUR...FORE Round. The intent here is to either set your site hot or cold, cant the bow left or right, or aim off...but with CONTROL! The idea is that you score a "5" ONLY IF YOU HIT THE INNER FOUR RING on the field face. This is tougher than you might think! It teaches bubble control, how to intentionally aim off and make it count, and also to give you a test to see if you really know HOW FAR to set your site hot or cold to keep the arrow in that INNER four ring! Shooting a "perfect" on this is tough; if you touch the bulls-eye, or shoot past the identity line...YOU MISSED! Of course, you gotta be honest too...if you are setting hot or cold...AIM AT THE CENTER OF THE BULLSEYE and let the arrow shoot HOT or COLD...if you are aiming off intentionally, then BE HONEST with yourself...and "try" to keep impact point and aiming point under control to hit where you WANT TO HIT...but out of the bulls-eye but inside that identity line!

Hope some of this helps to break the boredom, I've done this when piddling around for years...and it DOES HELP for the "proactive practice" and also to relieve boredom of the same ole thing every time.

field14


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

JohnR said:


> Agreed that NFAA membership requirement keeps some shooters away from Field shoots...but on the flip side if nobody joins NFAA or your club... who sponsors the shoot? That's a whole new thread in itself!!!!!
> 
> Archery is not on McDonalds menu. You cannot always have it your way or right now!
> 
> ...


That attitude is exactly why the NFAA is dying on the vine... There is a huge difference between making the game (rules) simple to play and making the game easy... No one at least not that I have heard is asking to make the game easier... just make it simpler for the new shooter... 

Unless you are an anachronism shooting without sights, the short walk-ups and the fans along with the birdie/bunny are just silly... you just flat have to be sound asleep to miss a 20 on those targets... if you want difficult why have gimme targets...


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

JAVI said:


> That attitude is exactly why the NFAA is dying on the vine... There is a huge difference between making the game (rules) simple to play and making the game easy... No one at least not that I have heard is asking to make the game easier... just make it simpler for the new shooter...
> 
> Unless you are an anachronism shooting without sights, the short walk-ups and the fans along with the birdie/bunny are just silly... you just flat have to be sound asleep to miss a 20 on those targets... if you want difficult why have gimme targets...


So, during a tournament you have NEVER EVER missed on a bunny, 15 yarder, 20 yarder, 35 fan, 45 walkup, or 55 yarder? NEVER missed...ALWAYS shot ALL 20's on those "gimmee" targets? I don't really think so!

I know of a top professional that shot a 557 at a national event...and missed 1 on the 15 yarder and two on the 25 yarder! I know of some top guns that have missed on the BUNNY too...

I lost many a tournament, including a Great Lakes Sectional (by two points) because of the "gimmee" bunny...lost 4 points in two days on that sucker...and in two days...never missed on either of the 80 walkups or 70 walkups!

field14


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

field14 said:


> So, during a tournament you have NEVER EVER missed on a bunny, 15 yarder, 20 yarder, 35 fan, 45 walkup, or 55 yarder? NEVER missed...ALWAYS shot ALL 20's on those "gimmee" targets? I don't really think so!
> 
> I know of a top professional that shot a 557 at a national event...and missed 1 on the 15 yarder and two on the 25 yarder! I know of some top guns that have missed on the BUNNY too...
> 
> ...


I never said that I hadn't fallen asleep once or twice... I just said that to miss them you had to be sound asleep...:wink:

It's like shooting a 300 on the 5-spot... I never even consider a score less than 300... I work on X count..

I'm not saying that I've never shot less than a 300, because that would be lying... I never think about it... once in a blue moon I'll fall asleep and pop one into the deep ocean blue, but that's just it I fell asleep... and lost my focus... If I pay attention I'm not going to miss that softball sized white area... same thing on those outdoor targets... baring loss of focus or equipment issues I'm not going to miss and neither is any other good shooter...


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## Hutnicks (Feb 9, 2006)

field14 said:


> I've sometime screwed around for the heck of it and varied things on the regular course; it HAS HELPED my scores when I went back to the "Real thing." But it took the boredom out of it too:
> 
> 1. Shoot til you miss. Then, go get all your arrows, come back to the stake you missed from and you must shoot your entire quiver of arrows into the bulls-eye before you can move to the next stake in the round. Some days, you shoot a lot of arrows from a particular stake...others you get to shoot some targets. But you learn to MAKE EVERY ARROW COUNT...eventually, haha.
> 
> ...


Great ideas! Showing a little imagination helps a lot to keep things interesting. with 14 or 28 stations available there is a lot to play with. And the only limiting factor is your own creativity. It does not take an organizational rule change to allow us to play with the venue, so have at it!


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## C Doyle 88 (Sep 1, 2007)

*short field rnd*

NO !!!
We dont need to fix somthing that aint broken.
The only time we shoot for titles is state, sect., &nats, the rest are basicly practice or novelity rnds. The short rnd is 14. If you dont have time for 28 shoot 14 and go home. Shooters dont go to title shoots because they know they arent ready, and/or they dont have the money...
The rnd was designed to test the archer under all varying
conditions, all shooting the same rnd under the same conditions, that IS the test.
Why would you want to be less of a champ than those that came before you.

Or just shoot 14 and go home. -doyle-


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Several people have asked for a simpler round, to save or revive field. When I pointed out there is a simpler round I was told you can't find but one in Texas...Dah! That was the point I was trying to make.FITA Field has shorter indistances, calls for less arrows, has larger targets and takes less time. There are only about 4 FITA Field shoot a year in the US (by contrast it is a huge sport in Europe).

Several of the posts have said or implied the "old field" course is too easy and they want more challange. (smiley face goes here) I got a challange for you...take your sights off, and then when you shoot perfect scores barebow, try shooting with your fingers, and when that becomes boring try a recurve. Bet you won't be bored anymore, and you won't think the bunnies, the fans or the walk ups "...are just silly...".

Dave


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## ultratec00 (Aug 1, 2003)

henman said:


> Of course, you can always shoot one 14 target unit instead of all 28.



I'm all for just shooting/scoring a half. People will travel half way across the state to shoot an indoor round, which is 12 ends of 5 arrows yet cry about shooting 14 ends of 4 arrows. 4 less total shots but 2 more ends. Makes no sense.


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## PA Deer Chaser (Dec 20, 2003)

On one of our last 3D shoots of the year, we set up a target at six yards. I was surprised by the number of bowhunters who commented about that target. One fellow said it was the most educational target he'd ever shot and he _thanked_ us for setting it that way. In archery hunting, we're often presented with shots at extremely close range, and it is critical to know just how your bow performs and what your point of impact will be. That was the reason the bunny target was established. Even though equipment has changed, the fact that each archer MUST know his equipment hasn't.

Now, once you learn how to set your sight - or aim off - on the close targets, I agree with Javi, you've got to be sleeping to miss the bunny. But I've missed enough bunny shots to know it isn't a gimme. I never approach the bunny thinking it's a waste of time, or that it should be eliminated from the course. The bunny is there to remind me that there is no easy shot in archery, that I WILL ALWAYS miss if I don't keep my focus and shot sequence on EVERY shot. On longer shots, it is easy for me to write misses off to the distance, or the terrain, and those misses never bother me as much as the close targets. If a miss doesn't bother me, I'm not going to learn anything from it.

As for fans and walkups, I've always thought it adds interest, rather than always shooting four arrows from the same spot. Our 35 fan will give you four different points of impact; you can't shoot them quite the same. It teaches you that 35 yards isn't just 35 yards. A walkup teaches us that just five yards can change the whole world.

I'm relatively new to field archery, having only shot it for about 4 years - and only in more serious competition just this year. I'm not defending the target arrangement because of a lifetime of tradition. I think there is a lesson to be learned in every target, at every distance. And for me, the array of different target setups is what helps keep field archery interesting.

I personally don't care what order anyone shoots the spots in. But I also have respect for the game I'm playing. If those are the rules, I will follow them because that is sportsmanship, and frankly, following the rules doesn't hurt anyone, even if we may think they are silly.

Maybe it's because I had my dad to teach me my first time through a field course, but I didn't find the rules or course confusing or intimidating from a layout standpoint. I was intimidated by the distances, and I think that will always be the major issue for any newbie to field archery no matter what happens to the layout.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

OK. We're trying to get Bowhunters and other newbies over to Field. Just because some of the folks on here with moveable sights think some targets are "gimmes" doesn't mean they are for the masses - especially bowhunters with fixed pins. I'm very happy that some of you get 20s automatically on those targets. Newbies certainly won't. I don't. Splitting pins on a walkup isn't a "gimme". Even shooting a 35 when your pins are at 30 and 40 isn't a gimme. If you're a top gun, that's wonderful. I'm not and most of the people we're trying to get into Field Archery won't be.

As a matter of fact, NOBODY shot a 550 all week in the Bowhunter classes at the National Outdoors. In fact, even in Freestyle, you only have to go to 5th place to find folks averaging less than 550. (We're talking amateur, here.)

So, don't change the sport because a few folks claim that a few targets are "too easy". If you're trying to attract new shooters, getting rid of the "seemingly" easy targets is clearly NOT the approach to take.


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

There are no "easy" targets in archery - some just aren't as difficult as others. Those of us who call for simplifying the game aren't doing so to change the game or make it easier, but rather to economize on resources (land, money, human labor) and time to shoot (which is a much greater concern to potential field archers than most of you will believe - but I know). A simple change to the International round would reduce requirements across the board by some 25% roughly and time by a significant margin. Weekend time management is a vital factor for modern families. No longer do parents want to spend the day pursuing a single activity when kids are involved in so many organized activities. 0800 start times at the archery range make it viable, with this round, to meet a 1300 start time somewhere else - not so with the current field round.

Such a change would be resisted by many current archers and might even cause a loss of membership initially (much like the change of face in '76), but subsequent growth might very possibly lead to an increase across the board. Rules are simplified and time is greatly reduced. More clubs could afford to create and maintain field courses. By adding 3D targets for the animal round, we become more attractive to a currently vital archery group as well.

Personally, I don't want a change to our round, but if it would help growth (which it probably would not do immediately), I would support it all the way.

We also must change the rules and emotions which turn prospective shooters away. Why can't there be a "guest" class for prospective future members which allows them to shoot twice before requiring them to join before shooting future events? Make their guest fees slightly more expensive so there is an advantage to joining the organization if they enjoy the experience and wish to continue. 

It is a fact that there are far too many "dinosaurs" like me running our NFAA. "Old Fart" inertia is a very difficult object to move or bypass. These "obstacles" simply must be replaced or re-programmed so as to recognize the need to vitalize the NFAA.


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## XQuest (May 5, 2003)

*rsw*

It is a fact that there are far too many "dinosaurs" like me running our NFAA. "Old Fart" inertia is a very difficult object to move or bypass. These "obstacles" simply must be replaced or re-programmed so as to recognize the need to vitalize the NFAA.


Above was posted by you and you are not entirely right.The "dinosaurs" represent the memberships wants and idea's.If the members don't get the word to the directors (dinosaurs) then the (dinosaurs) have no recourse but to involve their own ideas and wants for the good of the NFAA.I know you are with me on this but wanted to clarify to AT'ers that could take a different reading on your statement.


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

XQUEST: You are absolutely correct; however, there are far too many dinosaurs that elect the directors and propose the future direction of the NFAA. Because in many areas, there are too few young archers, the "experience" of the older archers (who are a significant part of the current membership) often holds sway - not that experience is necessarily a bad thing, but it does reduce the possibility of meaningful change.

I am not so sure that any change is going to affect the number of NFAA memberships, but this forum would indicate that there is a distinct interest in some evolution in the way we do business.

I don't remember if you were at the pro meeting at the nationals or not. I queried our president regarding the inability to cause change because of the vast number of people who have to concur with change. He responded that there was a move afoot to perhaps improve that situation. He did not elaborate, but I deduced that there may be a change in our organizational bible that will streamline decision-making authorities.

Overall, I feel that the dinosaurs in our organization wield more influence than we should by virtue of the way the NFAA is organized (or disorganized). Perhaps the newer generations feel the same way and change is not necessary (or so identified by the youngsters).


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Short Round*

I don't really see the usefulness of the 15-14 and 19-17 in today's game but I feel the Bunny target is unique enough and a lot of fun to shoot and watch others on your squad shoot. I have seen people literally jump up and down when they miss on the bunny! The entertainment value alone makes this target worthwhile. LOL. But I basically agree with the thought that if people want a shorter round they should schedule some shoots that are 14 targets only. Cuts the time in half and keeps the integrity of the round in place. All of the Field ranges we have access to are 1 1/4 to 4 hours away. I'm not going to drive that far for 14 targets but some might. Seems like the 14 target half would work great for leagues, etc. I guess things are different in other areas of the country but changing the round wouldn't add many, if any, shooters around here and would definitely tick off our current crop of field shooters. The problem with field archery isn't the round, number of arrows, or the difficulty of the long shots. The problem around here is archery apathy. And that includes all formats be it Field, 3-D, or FITA. Indoor archery in the winter does fairly well here but it is just because there aren't as many choices available with 2 foot of snow on the ground.
Jbird


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## Archery Power (Feb 4, 2005)

I think a short round is just what we need


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

OK, so it was said several times above ...

We HAVE a short round - actually several versions.

So set up an International round - 20 yards through 65 yards, each 5-yard increment. 3 arrows at each target, 30 arrows total (unless you want to do it twice for 60 arrows). Our club does it on Tuesday evenings in April and May, takes about 1 hour to shoot. Fun and relaxing.

Can be done on the practice range most Clubs have, or our range is set up where the first five targets make a loop with an easy way back to the clubhouse, and all the distances fit in those first 5 targets, walking twice around and shooting one stake the first time, second stake the second time (except we shoot the 65-yarder on the practice flat).


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

C Doyle 88 said:


> NO !!!
> We dont need to fix somthing that aint broken.
> The only time we shoot for titles is state, sect., &nats, the rest are basicly practice or novelity rnds. The short rnd is 14. If you dont have time for 28 shoot 14 and go home. Shooters dont go to title shoots because they know they arent ready, and/or they dont have the money...
> The rnd was designed to test the archer under all varying
> ...


You sir are "spot on!" :thumbs_up
You hit the bonus point(x) for this post! 
56 shots on a half are fewer than the indoor 5 spot round, and 26 more than the 3 spot round. Sign me up! (for the 56)


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Truth be told the shoots just take too long. No new blood coming in and the older shooters are just getting tired faster. I for one like to shoot only 14. And I have encountered many that feel the same way. So unless we can find a way to liven up the shoot then you will either need to shorten the round or just understand that our sport will continue to fizzle out. I believe our club is going to try something different next year. Setting up 14 of field or hunter and maybe an international round and then let the shooters decide what they want to shoot. If they want to shoot a full field round then they can shoot the 14 twice. Since we no long give out awards this shouldn't be a factor. Simply put, I feel that we need to offer and encourage different rounds. We still have about the same number of spot shooters here in Maryland but most are of the Vintage type. They don't travel far from home anymore and most only shoot their clubs shoots. Lets face it, our sport is dying a slow death.


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