# G5 HAVOC will cause you Havoc



## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

but michael waddell said......


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

O I forgot to mention to guys viewing: that metal retainer is smaller than the axis shaft diameter. It actually spread and wedged itself on the shaft. To compare take 1/2" nail and drive it through 1/4" hole same thing here. The 1/2" shaft would be the nail the 1/4 hole would be the metal part of the retainer. Ya know what I mean.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

bojangles808 said:


> but michael waddell said......


Lol ya I know.... Waddell if you read this don't shoot this head. If you shoot a t-3 just make sure you don't hit the shoulder, or shoot what your dad shot last year the striker and you don't have to worry about what you hit because it's going to blow through it or at least enough to kill it quick.


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## bhutso (Jan 4, 2007)

I have to say I've done this same test (plywood) I don't have pine. But on a standard size shaft (gold tip velocities) there were no issues and multiple shots, blew right through no damage, do you use hit inserts? Maybe that is the arrow broadhead combo to avoid? On a standard size shaft with an insert there is no way this is happening


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

bhutso said:


> I have to say I've done this same test (plywood) I don't have pine. But on a standard size shaft (gold tip velocities) there were no issues and multiple shots, blew right through no damage, do you use hit inserts? Maybe that is the arrow broadhead combo to avoid? On a standard size shaft with an insert there is no way this is happening


Yes axis hit inserts. But remember I used also used a larger steel washer between the retainer and shaft to act as a larger insert. Same result. But....tell ya what I'll go try it right now with standard shaft / insert. Be back in a few with results!


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## bhutso (Jan 4, 2007)

IrishMike said:


> Yes axis hit inserts. But remember I used also used a larger steel washer between the retainer and shaft to act as a larger insert. Same result. But....tell ya what I'll go try it right now with standard shaft / insert. Be back in a few with results!


Interested to see what happens, I didn't have any issue but I completely believe what happened in your test with the axis, the steel ring is what really stops the blades, with the hit insert there is nothing solid behind the ring to stop it, just carbon. Couple that with the smaller diameter and you are spot on, huge design flaw for this combination.


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## bhutso (Jan 4, 2007)

I decided not too use them after testing but it wasn't for lack of durability. I don't care for the extra parts in the blade retention, and I didn't personally feel they would do anything a killzone wouldn't do. Just like how easy the retention system on killzones are.


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

i only bought a pack because they were 32 bucks on ebay. i also got some kill zones and t3s to try as im looking for a rear deploying broadhead for a change. we shall see looks like ill have to get close lol


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

bhutso said:


> Interested to see what happens, I didn't have any issue but I completely believe what happened in your test with the axis, the steel ring is what really stops the blades, with the hit insert there is nothing solid behind the ring to stop it, just carbon. Couple that with the smaller diameter and you are spot on, huge design flaw for this combination.


Ok here it is. Standard shaft/insert. Results were slightly better and I mean slight!!!

-minimal penetration
- blades barely intact. Fell of moments after pic because metal part of retainer broke into pieces. Only 1 small piece kept them from coming out. This could have easily went the other way had the piece holding them broke they would have fell off. I got 2 more heads left....
- blue o-ring drag is still clear as it still moved up the shaft and imbedded in wood.
- the problem is now clear the metal in the blue retainer ring is BRITTLE really BRITTLE. It can't take a hit. 

Being completely honest that's the weak link 
that makes this head go from hero to zero. G-5 should recall these and make that stronger. There are places to shave some weight on this head to make that retainer metal more beefy and stronger. Heck I can see a way to simply eliminate it and mold into the ferrule. 

The way this head is designed is that piece is the backbone for reliability and penetration. The flaw is that the backbone (metal part of retainer ring) is the weakest leak!!!

That's to bad....


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

BH would be killer if they fix this. 

G-5 ill offer ideas of how to fix it for some free redesigned heads 
and if interested give you my Personal BH design I've been working on
for a royalty, with appropriate legal documentation of course!


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## rpwin18 (Oct 29, 2013)

I have sold the hell out of these at Dicks, I am going to have some pissed of customers in the fall lol.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

rpwin18 said:


> I have sold the hell out of these at Dicks, I am going to have some pissed of customers in the fall lol.


If only looks could kill! 

Btw love your signature


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## rpwin18 (Oct 29, 2013)

IrishMike said:


> If only looks could kill!
> 
> Btw love your signature


I appreciate it, him, Hannity, and Lewis are the only station that picks up in the John deer tractor that we use to plant so I listen to them constantly.

I really enjoy this information though, will you test out the new rage 3 blades? I've sold the heck out of them also.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

rpwin18 said:


> I appreciate it, him, Hannity, and Lewis are the only station that picks up in the John deer tractor that we use to plant so I listen to them constantly.
> 
> I really enjoy this information though, will you test out the new rage 3 blades? I've sold the heck out of them also.


Sure I will. Although I'll tell you knowing what I know from testing BHS it makes me cringe looking at it. Gimmie a little while and I'll get a few and PM you when I test.

I'm not sure what dicks sales BH wise. But if you got guy who loves mechs, the new rage 2-blade 1.5 cut I've tested and it did ok, although not good enough for me to use. The tried true spit fires and grim reapers are ok. I love the entire rocket BH line up but if only they would make those darn blade screws bigger and stronger, if, if, if!!! I'm a fixed bladed guy I love g5 strikers and shuttle ts. Although it takes a bit of tuning to get them right for me. I'm just a guy looking for the perfect mechanical broadhead that no one makes. This havoc really had me pumped especially after they delayed the release, I expected different results. In the mean time I'll educate by doing simple tests for the potential buyers who can't test like I can.

Ya know I like your enthusiasm for selling new broadheads though, that's cool! stay passionate! If I ever find the time to manufacture my masterpiece broadhead I'll get you out there selling them!


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## kentwood1 (Jul 5, 2009)

Well I'm disappointed. I have two packs sitting on my gun case. Seems like G5 would have tested durability before releasing them?


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## dstreet (Jul 14, 2008)

I’m not a big fan of mechanicals but I liked how these looked. Thanks for doing this test!


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

tag


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## crazy4bucks (Jan 21, 2009)

Typical G5. Low quality products high quality prices. Didn't they spend 2-3 years developing this broadhead?


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

crazy4bucks said:


> Typical G5. Low quality products high quality prices. Didn't they spend 2-3 years developing this broadhead?


I think so, the broad head looks so badass that I can see a lot of people buying it on looks alone. We all need to educate people and spread the word. I say this with only the hunter in mind. I did more testing with the 2 remaining heads I had left last night doing less obtrusive testing and the metal circle (backbone) in the retainer continued to fail. This broad head will fail as much as it will work when shooting it at whitetails. I'm certain of that and if you have a direct ferrule hit on a rib or bone the head is going to stop in its tracks, blades will fall off, and it will be a hunter sobbing with stress on finding a lost deer. Manufacturers just pis me off. They sponsor the biggest names in the industry tell them to push the products, which I can't blame the guys for doing it their getting paid to do so, but the least they could do for us consumers is test the products before selling them and make sure they work as they should. I find it hard to believe that G5 doesn't already know that this is a problem. I am a G5 supporter too so this isn't a bash this education. I love the G-5 Striker, the T-3 is "OK", and their sharpening tool is pretty good too. 

I think we all would have more respect for them if they recall the head, fix the issue, and then reproduce. For the guys that miss this post, buy them, and use them, this fall is going to have a lot of "I hit them Perfect with the Havoc, and I lost my deer, threads". It will be interesting to see if the bone guys shoot these this year, I am going to make assumption if they do it will show the broad head during a cut in clip and what is actually on the arrow is something else when they shoot, or G-5 will fix the problem specifically for them. Otherwise if neither of those things are going on in October you'll see the bone guys using it and by November they'll be using something else.....


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## rpwin18 (Oct 29, 2013)

IrishMike said:


> Sure I will. Although I'll tell you knowing what I know from testing BHS it makes me cringe looking at it. Gimmie a little while and I'll get a few and PM you when I test.
> 
> I'm not sure what dicks sales BH wise. But if you got guy who loves mechs, the new rage 2-blade 1.5 cut I've tested and it did ok, although not good enough for me to use. The tried true spit fires and grim reapers are ok. I love the entire rocket BH line up but if only they would make those darn blade screws bigger and stronger, if, if, if!!! I'm a fixed bladed guy I love g5 strikers and shuttle ts. Although it takes a bit of tuning to get them right for me. I'm just a guy looking for the perfect mechanical broadhead that no one makes. This havoc really had me pumped especially after they delayed the release, I expected different results. In the mean time I'll educate by doing simple tests for the potential buyers who can't test like I can.
> 
> Ya know I like your enthusiasm for selling new broadheads though, that's cool! stay passionate! If I ever find the time to manufacture my masterpiece broadhead I'll get you out there selling them!


Haha my enthusiasm isn't just for broadheads, I genuinely enjoy seeing people succeed at bow hunting. As douschy as this sounds, there is seriously no better feeling than someone comming up to the store, that you have outfitted or given advice to, just to show you a picture of the deer that they killed with their bow or even them just shooting a Robin Hood and they thank you. Young or old it doesn't matter you Helped someone succeed at doing something they love ya know, and when I see something like this I know to tell people to stay away, and them not think it's biased when I show them proof. I want to be able to outfit someone with the best rig I possibly can. Even if that means telling them to stay away from qad hunter series and these g5 broadheads lol.


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## bhutso (Jan 4, 2007)

Thanks for doing the standard shaft, I'm going to assume what I shot it through was not as hard as your test. Glad I decided not to use them or buy more !!!


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

bhutso said:


> Thanks for doing the standard shaft, I'm going to assume what I shot it through was not as hard as your test. Glad I decided not to use them or buy more !!!


Your assumption is probably correct. Although I did try it on 1/4" inch and other material last night and there were still signs of failure after observation, not complete failure, but enough for me to know it's to big of a risk. 

Some other things they need to not overlook is how much drag this broad head creates:

1. The top of the blue portion of the retainer ring is higher than the rest of the broad head. This creates drag, not good for penetration. 
2. The bottom of the ferrule is mushroomed out also higher than the rest of the head which also creates a lot of drag because it needs to force it's way through whatever you shoot. The sleak design is great but when you mushroom the bottom of the head ferrule everything you did to design it sleek goes away by mushrooming the bottom. If this would remain the same plain as the rest of the head this would help penetration.

They are so close to having a true winner, but 3 main changes need to take place before anyone should use them. Those blades they are using never bent, I even shot one into thin gauge steel. Although the head ultimately failed same as above, the blades survived perfectly which would not happen on a rage 2 blade. 

They have the right blade design, they are using the correct materials, the ferrule design is 80% there. If they redesign the ferrule without the mushroom bottom, and redesign the retainer ring to take a hit, they got a great head.


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

Could you test the new grim reaper hybrids like that ?.
Can't wait to see how they perform.


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## kentwood1 (Jul 5, 2009)

If wish someone would show them this and maybe they will redesign and recall the "rings".


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

You lost me at hate rage .lol


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## Allenbd (May 23, 2011)

Wow! Thanks for sharing results. I was so excited to get these heads in the shop. We finally got them and I took them out to play with them and put them back within a minute (this is NOT common because I love playing with new stuff). Wasn't impressed with the retention mechanism but this really shows they are not quality.


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## KYHeadhunter02 (Sep 6, 2010)

Since your a BH guru, what are your thoughts on grim reaper expandables? I've shot gr for a few seasons now.


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## Bowpro-295 (Jul 30, 2013)

I have had no issues with mine if your deer ribs are thicker then his I want to come hunt with you


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## Bowpro-295 (Jul 30, 2013)

The head broke off when it hit the ground on the exit I Don't feel it is as durable as the rage but it cut a perfect hole from entrance to exit


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## Bowpro-295 (Jul 30, 2013)

I think the body should be stronger since it snapped off on the threaded part


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

Bowpro-295 said:


> I think the body should be stronger since it snapped off on the threaded part


Beautiful bear! You Alaskan boys need to hunt Midwest white tails and you'll understand what hard corn fed rib cages look like! Maybe not that thick but solid! 

Congrats on the kill


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

KYHeadhunter02 said:


> Since your a BH guru, what are your thoughts on grim reaper expandables? I've shot gr for a few seasons now.


Not to shabby. I'll be testing their new fatal steel next. I had extremely good luck with the 75grain 3 blade but I added 25 grains to my insert when testing it making the front of my arrow way 100 grains. Put it this way from my old picture log it went through one side of a steel barrel and punctured the opposite side. Only 1 blade was bent. That's a little extreme testing, but that was when I didn't know what I know now. But I still do that test!!! Lol


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

Great test OP, 
I gotta say though, Hmm ya,, so a fixed head wont do that sort of thing now will it?
Dooohhh Yep I said it. Sorry. 
Glad mechs are not legal for big game in oregon.


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## markman (Apr 14, 2007)

It's a shame G5 didn't do more testing with this head and also that it is considered barbed. On a different note, I have used the NAP Killzone Maxx and Reg Cut and they are the best, simplest, most durable expandable I have ever tried and i have tried them all.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

elkbow69 said:


> Great test OP,
> I gotta say though, Hmm ya,, so a fixed head wont do that sort of thing now will it?
> Dooohhh Yep I said it. Sorry.
> Glad mechs are not legal for big game in oregon.


Some fixed might not perform but I can tell you which ones exceed the ultimate test of penetration and won't break. And for G-5 they know how to build a good head as seen below. They just failed on the havoc. I am craving an Ultimate Mechanical, thought the havoc would be it.

There are few that can deliver the ultimate results below G5 Striker, Shuttle T, Interlock Falcon, Slick Trick, and Wacem are at the top of the food chain along with a few others. 
I know we don't hunt barrels but when you get these results you really don't have to worry about shoulders or big game........

I wouldn't expect a mech to perform real well below and thats ok, but you brought up the fixed blade thing, so I'd figure I'd show G-5's other side.


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## nocksplitters (May 19, 2005)

Well, it's a good thing a deer isn't wrapped in pine or even plywood, otherwise we'd be screwed! Anyway I literally shot the guts out of my bear so I think the Havoc is performing very well.


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## PSE30x (Mar 4, 2014)

After many years of using G5 heads with out a single problem. I have come to the conclusion, over the years, that everything they put on the market is and always will be reliable. Their products have yet to fail me. 

To date have never had to kill a piece of lumber.


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## Crazy Wolves (Jan 16, 2012)

:mg:..Hey Mike its me Crazy Wolf...I looked at these heads at Cabelas the other day ,..

Picked them up and looked them over good,..

Put them back on the display and took a walk thru Cabelas ,.

And then I hear these heads calling me back,.. 

So ,.. I go back and pick them up again and then I hear this little voice say "WOLF" really ? WTH u thinking put those things back down and walk away... 

I did just that,.. every one is trying to make it happen with broad heads weather its a fixed or mechanical,..

This one here needs some fixing ,..and I just knew that.,.. that's why they are still on the shelf at Cabelas,..Just Sayin !

Hey you take a look at those new Gators from Bass Pro,.. now them are some lookers ,..:rock:


Crazy Wolf.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

Crazy Wolves said:


> :mg:..Hey Mike its me Crazy Wolf...I looked at these heads at Cabelas the other day ,..
> 
> Picked them up and looked them over good,..
> 
> ...


THE WOLF!!!!! How are you my friend! Good choice setting them down, ya know what a shame looks like a Lamborghini but they forgot you cant run a lambo with a smart car transmission! Lol

Ah yes the gators!!! The diamond in the rough! How did I forget about those? That head is very good, might just be my cure for those windy days, can't believe I forgot about them....

Did you ever go on that beer hunt?

Why you only got 309 posts???? Dare I ask? LOL!!!!


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## Crazy Wolves (Jan 16, 2012)

IrishMike said:


> THE WOLF!!!!! How are you my friend! Good choice setting them down, ya know what a shame looks like a Lamborghini but they forgot you cant run a lambo with a smart car transmission! Lol
> 
> Ah yes the gators!!! The diamond in the rough! How did I forget about those? That head is very good, might just be my cure for those windy days, can't believe I forgot about them....
> 
> ...



Yo Mike ,. no I have yet to bear hunt,.. and its killing me that I have yet to go,..

Life got kinda ruff for awhile and I am on a rebound from no where,..

Oh,.. those post were lost in a computer crash,.. LOl.

Boy I look around here on Archery Talk and most I once knew are no longer here WTH happen with that,..

Getting older but wiser ,..aint all bad you know,..

Good to hear from you again,. be safe out there in the woods of plenty,..

Hey was it you that sent me that one broad head one time ago ?

I still have it,.. LOL


Crazy Wolf.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

Yes it was probably me....lol 

I think it's time for me to just develop my own instead of complaining about others!


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## Crazy Wolves (Jan 16, 2012)

IrishMike said:


> Yes it was probably me....lol
> 
> I think it's time for me to just develop my own instead of complaining about others!



No way Mike tell it like it is,..I mean really how long did they make a CHEVY CHEVETTE before people ask GM WTH were you thinkin....:frusty: LOL !!!!!!



Crazy Wolf


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

I tested the the havco this year also and I will agree for sure the blue collar sucks, as for tough it held together great and had the most pentration out of a few other Mech heads (rage, Gravediggers, killzone, reapers) I personally thought it was a great head but a pain in the butt to close the blades. The killzone were also a very tough head but less pentration then the G5

Thanks for all the time/money and test for us, I know what it takes to do test. I'm also a broadhead junky.


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## Treehugger98 (Nov 9, 2012)

Shoot a ramcat and be done with it. I will out shoot rage and these new heads at any distance. If you don't like the cats shoot qad exodus. Why take a chance on a expandable when you know the fixed will fly straight and cut on contact. Blows my mind!


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## Bowhuntr64 (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks for the testing and reviews, Mike! Great to see you back on here. And great to see Crazy Wolf on here as well


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Well I confirmed the OPs results. In my case i used 7/16" OSB and produced the exact same results. Kinda sickening to think I would have hunted with these. Never again will I use and untested broadhead. I also tested a T3 which ended up breaking 2 of the 3 blades completely off upon entry and then the arrow only went halfway through the OSB. For grins I tried my go to that I have used for years.... A Rage 3 blade. The arrow was a complete pass thru burying 16.375" in big block target. The head was completely intact and the blades were all straight. Only thing missing was the o-ring.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

IrishMike said:


> O I forgot to mention to guys viewing: that metal retainer is smaller than the axis shaft diameter. It actually spread and wedged itself on the shaft. To compare take 1/2" nail and drive it through 1/4" hole same thing here. The 1/2" shaft would be the nail the 1/4 hole would be the metal part of the retainer. Ya know what I mean.


T3's do the same thing on axis shafts. Usually the nubs on the blades break since they are cast molded steel and not forged. But if the nubs didn't break it still broke the carbon allowing all or most blades to come off, not surprised about the results.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

sethro02 said:


> T3's do the same thing on axis shafts. Usually the nubs on the blades break since they are cast molded steel and not forged. But if the nubs didn't break it still broke the carbon allowing all or most blades to come off, not surprised about the results.


Sethro,

You may have missed it a little further down I also tried it with a standard size shaft and aluminum insert with the same result. Same thing happens if you simply shoot it into a newer rhinehart block style target. The metal inside the blue ring is way to brittle, upon a forcefull impact the blades shatter that ring when opening at speed of impact. 

Their a disaster waiting to happen as you would know from testing all kinds as well.


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

shigsarch1 said:


> Well I confirmed the OPs results. In my case i used 7/16" OSB and produced the exact same results. Kinda sickening to think I would have hunted with these. Never again will I use and untested broadhead. I also tested a T3 which ended up breaking 2 of the 3 blades completely off upon entry and then the arrow only went halfway through the OSB. For grins I tried my go to that I have used for years.... A Rage 3 blade. The arrow was a complete pass thru burying 16.375" in big block target. The head was completely intact and the blades were all straight. Only thing missing was the o-ring.


Glad to see you tested them before rolling the dice! 

Awareness is the purpose of these tests and AT.


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## sethro02 (Jul 5, 2008)

IrishMike said:


> Sethro,
> 
> You may have missed it a little further down I also tried it with a standard size shaft and aluminum insert with the same result. Same thing happens if you simply shoot it into a newer rhinehart block style target. The metal inside the blue ring is way to brittle, upon a forcefull impact the blades shatter that ring when opening at speed of impact.
> 
> Their a disaster waiting to happen as you would know from testing all kinds as well.


Standard shafts did fine for me. I even put a BAR adapter on an axis arrow a couple times and the t3's still did it. But no I didn't read all the posts


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## WPAtrapper (Nov 17, 2009)

I shot one into a Rhinehart 18-1 tonight about 20 times and it held up fine, other than the blue o-ring. They fly great by the way.


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

just got my pack in the mail, fondled with them a little bit and despite the results on here they look pretty sweet. will be putting together a 3 day hunt in about a week and i think im still going to chance em. hopefully i can get something on the ground if not you can tell me you told me so lol.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Ok for those that don't believe it unless there are photos to support. Here you go... Photos from each broadhead test.

#1 G5 Havoc

Entry Hole -








Exit Hole -








Broadhead following the shot (note the blue o-ring minus the washer) - i found the blade laying on the floor in front of the OSB which tells me it never made it thru the sheet due to a failure of the washer meaning there is nothing to keep the blade from sliding out of the head. -








Really messed up my arrow insert as you can see -


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Test #2

G5 T3

Entry Hole -








Exit Hole - (note the one blade and retaining washer stuck in the OSB)








Broadhead after the shot -


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Test #3

Rage 3 blade

Entry hole -








Exit Hole -








Broadhead after shot - 








Another look of head after shot. Note the housing is gouged where the blade started pushing back as it entered the OSB. Even with this the head held together and performed.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

Thanks for the pics, Yep those blue collars suck. After testing mine I could see how the blade would come out if/when the collar comes off.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

G5 simply needs to go with different material on the retaining washer. Instead of a metal injection molded part modify the design and go with stainless. Too bad because aside from this it is a quality head.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

shigsarch1 said:


> G5 simply needs to go with different material on the retaining washer. Instead of a metal injection molded part modify the design and go with stainless. Too bad because aside from this it is a quality head.


100% agree


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## General RE LEE (Nov 8, 2012)

AT....keeping broadhead manufacturers on their toes and honest! Great info.


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## Passthrough z7 (Dec 27, 2009)

Mike 

Thanks for the test I saw these today at Dicks thought they looked good, glad I decided to research first.


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## Stick&String96 (May 2, 2013)

IrishMike said:


> Some fixed might not perform but I can tell you which ones exceed the ultimate test of penetration and won't break. And for G-5 they know how to build a good head as seen below. They just failed on the havoc. I am craving an Ultimate Mechanical, thought the havoc would be it.
> 
> There are few that can deliver the ultimate results below G5 Striker, Shuttle T, Interlock Falcon, Slick Trick, and Wacem are at the top of the food chain along with a few others.
> I know we don't hunt barrels but when you get these results you really don't have to worry about shoulders or big game........
> ...


I shoot G5 strikers and those little buggers are nasty! Sharp as heck and blow right through all the deer I shot with them. Man I love them heads!

I killed 4 deer with the same head! Didn't even replace the blades, just sharpened them. Not a single deer made it past 50 yards and the strikers fly with my field points with NO tuning.


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

I'm a Prime bow shooter and well satisfied with the quality of their bow designs. However I am a fixed blade BH shooter from over 35 years of hunting everything from small game to moose. If I learned one thing from this thread, it was that the OP tested Shuttle-T's successfully on a steel barrel and that is one I have been playing with a bit with the intent to take to the woods this fall. Magnus Stingers have done very well for me over the past several years, but I the design and reputation of the Shuttle-T has intrigued me for a while. I hope someone from G5 tunes in and listens to the gist of this thread because it doesn't seem to be intentionally bashing, but instead focused on making necessary improvements that will aid their customer base in the woods.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

I am also a Prime shooter and love G5 products thru and thru. However they need to resolve this issue with the havoc. I'm bummed as I spent 80.00 on 2 packs of them and will not use them now. That and I could not sell them to someone else in good conscience knowing the results of my test. I'm playing around with making my own replacement stainless washers. Unfortunately it will take me some mill work to reproduce the standoff's coming off the washer face. Will see how this turns out and I will post results of the test when I get it done.


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## kentwood1 (Jul 5, 2009)

Well I guess I'm going to try and trade mine. Hopfully they will make rings out of a different material.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

For all those reading this thread I spoke with Chris Schnur @ G5. I wanted to pick his brain on the validity of the testing that I carried out which is somewhat comparable to the OPs test. I for one have never tested broadheads before and typically find myself reading threads on AT for feedback from others (whether it be testing or real world experiences). That said I cannot be certain that shooting a piece of 7/16 OSB is a valid test and wanted to consult G5. Chris did not say that my test was invalid but did state that they have performed extensive testing and are very confident in the Havoc's capability both in testing and in the field. He added that they have had excellent results in the field. I would add that they are aware of this thread and do pay attention to everyone's feedback (which is GREAT and why they are such a great company - they take consumer feedback and use it to improve their products). 

My point - maybe my test is not valid in a real world situation. That said Im going to conduct some more testing with my remaining 5 broadheads. Im almost certain I have some deer shoulder blades that I can conduct testing on. That and I may be able to find a rib cage from the local meat processing facility (probably a pig). Either way it is not my intention to misrepresent a product based upon subjective testing therefore I find it necessary to carry out some additional test. I will provide extensive updates on my testing once complete (hopefully this evening).


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## HAPPY DAD (Feb 8, 2008)

shigsarch1 said:


> For all those reading this thread I spoke with Chris Schnur @ G5. I wanted to pick his brain on the validity of the testing that I carried out which is somewhat comparable to the OPs test. I for one have never tested broadheads before and typically find myself reading threads on AT for feedback from others (whether it be testing or real world experiences). That said I cannot be certain that shooting a piece of 7/16 OSB is a valid test and wanted to consult G5. Chris did not say that my test was invalid but did state that they have performed extensive testing and are very confident in the Havoc's capability both in testing and in the field. He added that they have had excellent results in the field. I would add that they are aware of this thread and do pay attention to everyone's feedback (which is GREAT and why they are such a great company - they take consumer feedback and use it to improve their products).
> 
> My point - maybe my test is not valid in a real world situation. That said Im going to conduct some more testing with my remaining 5 broadheads. Im almost certain I have some deer shoulder blades that I can conduct testing on. That and I may be able to find a rib cage from the local meat processing facility (probably a pig). Either way it is not my intention to misrepresent a product based upon subjective testing therefore I find it necessary to carry out some additional test. I will provide extensive updates on my testing once complete (hopefully this evening).


I am in the process of gathering all the materials to do a mechanical broad head test. 

So far I have domestic hog shoulder blades and I am going to mold those into ballistic gel and put something type of hide over it. I would love to get rabbit hide, that is lighter than deer so if they deploy on that then we know we would be good on a deer.


I am not looking to build a test to destroy heads but rather put them in a situation that we can likely be involved in.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

HAPPY DAD said:


> I am in the process of gathering all the materials to do a mechanical broad head test.
> 
> So far I have domestic hog shoulder blades and I am going to mold those into ballistic gel and put something type of hide over it. I would love to get rabbit hide, that is lighter than deer so if they deploy on that then we know we would be good on a deer.
> I am not looking to build a test to destroy heads but rather put them in a situation that we can likely be involved in.


Oh you have given me an idea. I have numerous cow hides. i can use that as the cover of the beef rib bone sections.


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## buckjunkey (Mar 22, 2010)

shigsarch1 said:


> For all those reading this thread I spoke with Chris Schnur @ G5. I wanted to pick his brain on the validity of the testing that I carried out which is somewhat comparable to the OPs test. I for one have never tested broadheads before and typically find myself reading threads on AT for feedback from others (whether it be testing or real world experiences). That said I cannot be certain that shooting a piece of 7/16 OSB is a valid test and wanted to consult G5. Chris did not say that my test was invalid but did state that they have performed extensive testing and are very confident in the Havoc's capability both in testing and in the field. He added that they have had excellent results in the field. I would add that they are aware of this thread and do pay attention to everyone's feedback (which is GREAT and why they are such a great company - they take consumer feedback and use it to improve their products).
> 
> My point - maybe my test is not valid in a real world situation. That said Im going to conduct some more testing with my remaining 5 broadheads. Im almost certain I have some deer shoulder blades that I can conduct testing on. That and I may be able to find a rib cage from the local meat processing facility (probably a pig). Either way it is not my intention to misrepresent a product based upon subjective testing therefore I find it necessary to carry out some additional test. I will provide extensive updates on my testing once complete (hopefully this evening).


Tagged for later.


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## Silverstar723 (Apr 30, 2012)

hey guys for comparison sake since it seems like we are just going after the havoc here how do all of the other broad heads hold up in the same test. I would like to see some of you who are testing if you could please use some other broad heads that we see out there through the same tests. i know i have my havoc's and shot them through some satellite dishes and they worked fine. get this 1 broad head shot 5 times through satellite dishes same collar and all without a flaw. ill post the pictures and the video of that later tonight. in my opinion that is a bad ass broad head and super easy to work with much nicer not having to use a screw driver or a brittle blade and those blades are suppppppeeeerrrrr sharp too.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Silverstar723 said:


> hey guys for comparison sake since it seems like we are just going after the havoc here how do all of the other broad heads hold up in the same test. I would like to see some of you who are testing if you could please use some other broad heads that we see out there through the same tests. i know i have my havoc's and shot them through some satellite dishes and they worked fine. get this 1 broad head shot 5 times through satellite dishes same collar and all without a flaw. ill post the pictures and the video of that later tonight. in my opinion that is a bad ass broad head and super easy to work with much nicer not having to use a screw driver or a brittle blade and those blades are suppppppeeeerrrrr sharp too.



Please reference some of my earlier post in which I performed the same test on 2 other broadheads solely for the purpose of comparisons. However after speaking with G5 i believe it is necessary to take a different testing approach (which I will carry out tonight).


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## Rebelrick (Jul 16, 2004)

Test that they will pass ?


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## HAPPY DAD (Feb 8, 2008)

shigsarch1 said:


> Oh you have given me an idea. I have numerous cow hides. i can use that as the cover of the beef rib bone sections.


I thought about that too because I have access to tons of it, but I think the cow will be too heavy.

I think I am going to contact a taxidermist and try to get some deer hide from some capes


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Testing round 2 -

Side of beef - rib bones, meat, fat
I had the processor lay the slab back over on itself. That said I doubled the thickness of a normal side.









Cow hide draped over front and back -









G5 Havoc head ready to go -









First shot did not land in a rib bone which is what I wanted. Reference photo:








Entry hole on hide -








Contd in next post


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

First shot exit hole in hide -








Broadhead after first shot (everything intact)


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Second shot:

I simply slid the blue neoprene ring back over the broadhead washer and seated the blades back into the closed position. 

Hide Entry hole 2nd shot -








Center punched a rib bone on entry and hit another on the backside of the slab (2nd shot)








Exit hole in the hide 2nd shot -








Head after 2nd shot


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Now I did slightly bend a blade following the second shot but keep in mind this was after going thru 2 rib bones. The key thing is the retaining washer stayed intact and kept the blades in place.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm glad I did this testing as it greatly increased my confidence in this head. Now i just need to purchase so replacement blades.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

shigsarch1 said:


> For all those reading this thread I spoke with Chris Schnur @ G5. I wanted to pick his brain on the validity of the testing that I carried out which is somewhat comparable to the OPs test. I for one have never tested broadheads before and typically find myself reading threads on AT for feedback from others (whether it be testing or real world experiences). That said I cannot be certain that shooting a piece of 7/16 OSB is a valid test and wanted to consult G5. Chris did not say that my test was invalid but did state that they have performed extensive testing and are very confident in the Havoc's capability both in testing and in the field. He added that they have had excellent results in the field. I would add that they are aware of this thread and do pay attention to everyone's feedback (which is GREAT and why they are such a great company - they take consumer feedback and use it to improve their products).
> 
> My point - maybe my test is not valid in a real world situation. That said Im going to conduct some more testing with my remaining 5 broadheads. Im almost certain I have some deer shoulder blades that I can conduct testing on. That and I may be able to find a rib cage from the local meat processing facility (probably a pig). Either way it is not my intention to misrepresent a product based upon subjective testing therefore I find it necessary to carry out some additional test. I will provide extensive updates on my testing once complete (hopefully this evening).


While I respect your willingness to question your own methods (scientists performing experiments need to do this more often), I don't think it's necessary. You weren't testing the durability of these heads in real world scenarios. You did a durability test and compared them to another popular head. The Havoc lost to the Rage, as much as I hate to say that. They were subjected to the same testing conditions and they failed.......miserably. 

I as a consumer know that shooting through plywood is not "real world" but I don't care. If there are heads that survive and there are heads that don't, I'm going to go with the ones that survive because they would be even more reliable in real life. That's like if a rifle barrel manufacturer blew up all their barrels under one set of test conditions so they dumbed it down so that they would pass. It doesn't make them more durable, it makes the test a waste of time. The product should be designed to withstand more than most "real world" conditions and not just squeak bye. 

IMO, you were right the first time. I'm interested in your next tests results but only for the entertainment value.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

shigsarch1 said:


> Second shot:
> 
> I simply slid the blue neoprene ring back over the broadhead washer and seated the blades back into the closed position.
> 
> ...


What are the measurements on the entrance and exit holes? They don't look like 2".


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

One thing i forgot to mention is that in both cases the arrow buried almost to the fletching in my big block target (same as the pro shops use). This test was completed with a Prime Alloy set at 60.8#, 29" dl, 364 gr arrow, shooting 292


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

My entry measurement on the hide (checked with digital calipers) was 1.957".

The exit measurement was 2.009"

Both measurements are from the second shot.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Huntinsker said:


> What are the measurements on the entrance and exit holes? They don't look like 2".


My entry measurement on the hide (checked with digital calipers) was 1.957".

The exit measurement was 2.009"

Both measurements are from the second shot.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

Huntinsker said:


> While I respect your willingness to question your own methods (scientists performing experiments need to do this more often), I don't think it's necessary. You weren't testing the durability of these heads in real world scenarios. You did a durability test and compared them to another popular head. The Havoc lost to the Rage, as much as I hate to say that. They were subjected to the same testing conditions and they failed.......miserably.
> 
> I as a consumer know that shooting through plywood is not "real world" but I don't care. If there are heads that survive and there are heads that don't, I'm going to go with the ones that survive because they would be even more reliable in real life. That's like if a rifle barrel manufacturer blew up all their barrels under one set of test conditions so they dumbed it down so that they would pass. It doesn't make them more durable, it makes the test a waste of time. The product should be designed to withstand more than most "real world" conditions and not just squeak bye.
> 
> IMO, you were right the first time. I'm interested in your next tests results but only for the entertainment value.


I completely understand your point. I was only attempting to take a more real world approach for the test. My goal is not to misrepresent or misinform. That said I wanted to make sure I cover all the bases for the testing.


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## Tim/OH (Apr 3, 2004)

Shigsarch1.....we all really do appreciate you taking the time to conduct these test.



Tim


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## IrishMike (Mar 19, 2007)

shigsarch1 said:


> Second shot:
> 
> I simply slid the blue neoprene ring back over the broadhead washer and seated the blades back into the closed position.
> 
> ...


Very nice, Interesting, what type of rib cage is that?
I'm pretty impressed you took your testing to this. Although like someone else mentioned don't try to convince yourself if something will fail or not fail. Test it to a little more than what is normally expected. I know from my testing over the years you are better to test as worse case or identify what can fail when using broadheads. With that said 1/4 or 1/2 pine is not that hard of a material your osb you tested on is harder to penetrate. I'm certain that G5 knew they had a weak point on this head which it is the metal o-ring that stops the blades. When I examined the head before testing and took the blue ring off I immediately knew upon a forcefull impact this fulcrum stopping point would either pass or fail. Although there will be live situations where this broadhead will work according to plan and one will not have an issue, I and you (previous tests) as previous test are reassurance that failure is not an option. I've killed some big animals in the last few years of hunting and I know with all the effort, time, and money I invest when it comes down to the moment of truth and I got one shot to release that I know when that arrow leaves my bow their is no doubt on what to expect on the end of my arrow. I really like this broadhead design, however that ring needs to be more rigid plain and obvious INMO. It is just way to brittle for me and hopefully others to chance a failure, I am certain it will brake on hard bone and in some shot situations. We all know how many shoulder hits or hard bone hits, hunter fault or animal moving fault that happen and leave hunters baffled as to why they got no penetration or lost the deer. So if G5 wants to build the hype up on this havoc they need to be prepared for testers like me and you to expose the truth to hunters as to what can happen if their going to use it. I think G5 is a great company I like who they sponsor and I use some of their products. I wish they would fix this one.


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## shigsarch1 (Jan 5, 2009)

IrishMike said:


> Very nice, Interesting, what type of rib cage is that?
> I'm pretty impressed you took your testing to this. Although like someone else mentioned don't try to convince yourself if something will fail or not fail. Test it to a little more than what is normally expected. I know from my testing over the years you are better to test as worse case or identify what can fail when using broadheads. With that said 1/4 or 1/2 pine is not that hard of a material your osb you tested on is harder to penetrate. I'm certain that G5 knew they had a weak point on this head which it is the metal o-ring that stops the blades. When I examined the head before testing and took the blue ring off I immediately knew upon a forcefull impact this fulcrum stopping point would either pass or fail. Although there will be live situations where this broadhead will work according to plan and one will not have an issue, I and you (previous tests) as previous test are reassurance that failure is not an option. I've killed some big animals in the last few years of hunting and I know with all the effort, time, and money I invest when it comes down to the moment of truth and I got one shot to release that I know when that arrow leaves my bow their is no doubt on what to expect on the end of my arrow. I really like this broadhead design, however that ring needs to be more rigid plain and obvious INMO. It is just way to brittle for me and hopefully others to chance a failure, I am certain it will brake on hard bone and in some shot situations. We all know how many shoulder hits or hard bone hits, hunter fault or animal moving fault that happen and leave hunters baffled as to why they got no penetration or lost the deer. So if G5 wants to build the hype up on this havoc they need to be prepared for testers like me and you to expose the truth to hunters as to what can happen if their going to use it. I think G5 is a great company I like who they sponsor and I use some of their products. I wish they would fix this one.



Your post is well said. We are on the same page when it comes to hunting trophy class animals and 100% confidence in your gear is key. This is why I love my Prime bows... I know they will perform every time. FYI - The rib cage is from a young cow.


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## HAPPY DAD (Feb 8, 2008)

It seems like alot of the problems come from the density of the wood versus that of any type of flesh, not necessarily the hardness


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

So iwas settingup for a hunt next week and tried to load them intto my tightspot and they open every time because of how these are suppose to deploy and that stupid blue ring. So I now have to reset the blades before I nock the arrow every time while I'm spot n stalking. Should be fun. I might be giving g5 a call.


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## Treehugger98 (Nov 9, 2012)

I shot a ramcat thru osb board 3 times, still could use the head for hunting. One of the blades bent a little at the tip, straightened back out and still use for practice close and long range. The kwikee hifi quiver works with these heads great also. 😁


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## killing_horizon (Feb 28, 2014)

I just started bow hunting 2 years ago and have had lots of problems finding the right equipment, until I started using AT. I never have needed to make a post on AT because everything has always seemed to check out until now. 
I have always been nervous about using mechanical BH's, so I have decided to do my own testing. I have also shot them into half inch ply wood and the only problem was the steel collar broke into pieces (thankfully they come with replacement collars) slapped on a new collar and boom, shot the same BH through another piece of wood and the BH was still completely intact. I will be using the Havoc this year for whitetail and I expect it to perform flawlessly. 
I have seen these broadheads in action and I can tell you they destroyed the turkey we got this year. Watch for yourself what the havoc can do in the field. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxknmq8erPk


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## 30feetup (Dec 14, 2008)

These heads will be in my quiver! Shot through plywood....no problems.....shot through ballistic gelatin..opened completely.....


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## deer down (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks god someone did some testing that simulates an animal. The video g5 put out with them shooting pigs and bear. I for one know that a boar has very tough hide and flesh and the heads worked fantastic. 1/2 plywood with 65+ lbs of kinetic energy and your arrow only penatrates an inch or so out that back and you compare that to a deers rib. I find that to a horrible comparison. Although the original poster writes his reviews and sounds intelligent. I think the tests are flawed and his results are far from real world animals


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## tank69kma (May 1, 2013)

I'm going to shoot my T3's again, had a lot of luck with them last year. Four deer, 20-45 yard shots, none made it more than 25 yards.


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## sharpshot (Feb 9, 2006)

I shot three deer with them this year. Complete pass thru on them all. 27yds, 12yds, 20yds. One blade out of six was curled from bone. The rest I sharpened and put back together with new retainer rings. I shoot an'06 tribute 72lbs with pile driver pass thru extreme small diameter arrows. Blood trails wasn't what I expected but they fly great and kil deer.


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## Bocephus131 (Nov 8, 2013)

The old Tekans are designed better than these imo


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## Rtkman (Aug 17, 2014)

I'll take this into consideration the next time i'm hunting... Wood? :noidea:


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## wipy (Oct 11, 2011)

I helped track a deer a friend shot with these. Terrible blood he hit off side shoulder and had zero penetratration through the opposite side. Arrow pushed back out within 10 yards. Will stick to my rage 125 gr chisel tips.


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## mattador96 (Oct 15, 2003)

Anything new on these heads


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## Sled (Jul 19, 2014)

mattador96 said:


> Anything new on these heads


same question. fixed yet?


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