# damper vs torque flight



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Dumpers on top of rods are mainly useless parts, just there to take out noise and residual vibration after the arrow has left the bow, as high speed movies easily show.
TFC's have a much more active action, adding to the dumping of the vibrations the possibility to really interact with the arrow during the release. But their tuning is very critical and becomes even more critical as rubber under compression is sensitive to temeratrure variations.
Basically, TFC's have to be kept very hard, in order to minimize said variations, and surely a TFC onthe long rod needs a very strong and big structure to work correctly.
TFC's on short rods are not influencing the release so much, so they can be small, but again must be tuned very stiff to avoid problems. 
Let put it in another way:
- A TFC on a long rod allows to tune the reaction of the long rod at the release, by this way transforming a stiff long rod in a "soft" one like the Beiter and other soft solutions, but with much easier tuning for grouping. But, better to consider that tuning will vary with temperature.
- TFC on short rods is not giving any significant variation to tuning in comparison to dumpers (if v-bar is flat - perpenticular to the string), so is a matter of personal choice and feeling.
In THA Michele suggests never to use a TFC on the long rod, but this suggestion is related to recurve shooting, only. On compound, a TFC with a stiff long rod will give you an incredible grade of additional possibilities in tuning. But remember the problems with temperature.
Now, W&W has introduces a weight on TFC at the center of its TFS Apecs riser. But, this TFS is NOT designe for working like a TFC, but is guided internally in a way to simulate more a movemnt on the axis of the riser than a real compensation of torque at the release (that anyhow still exist).


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

Vittorio;1054297402Now said:


> Vittorio, Is the Apecs TFS effected by temperature like a TFC is? - John


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

Fairly arbitrarily I use AGF twin rods. Started off my archery "career" (as in wandering about all over the place) with a conventional TFC arrangement - too heavy and you need to tighten them with a pipe wrench!

The AGF rod plugs into the base so it has the characteristics of a stiff TFC without that ***** tap washer arrangement.


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## XCalibre (Aug 31, 2006)

sorry to hijack a thread, but what exactly is a TFC? i've read about them in several places, including The Heretic Archer, but i still have no idea what they actually are.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

XCalibre said:


> sorry to hijack a thread, but what exactly is a TFC? i've read about them in several places, including The Heretic Archer, but i still have no idea what they actually are.


I'm wondering as well. I thought TFC was just a fancy name for a dampener and that the two terms were interchangeable.


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

XCalibre said:


> sorry to hijack a thread, but what exactly is a TFC? i've read about them in several places, including The Heretic Archer, but i still have no idea what they actually are.


TFC means “Torque Flight Compensator”. It was a term originally used by Bear or Hoyt Archery back in the 70s, can’t remember which one.

The difference is that a TFC is attached to the riser itself, and then the stabilizer is attached to the TFC.

A dampener is used between the stabilizer and the weight.

At one time Bear, Hoyt, Yamaha and Shibuya were making them.

Shibuya is still making TFCs.


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## XCalibre (Aug 31, 2006)

monty53 said:


> TFC means “Torque Flight Compensator”. It was a term originally used by Bear or Hoyt Archery back in the 70s, can’t remember which one.
> 
> The difference is that a TFC is attached to the riser itself, and then the stabilizer is attached to the TFC.
> 
> ...


so something like a Doinker Magnetic Suppressor could be considered a TFC?


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

XCalibre said:


> so something like a Doinker Magnetic Suppressor could be considered a TFC?


Not really, the Doinker is basically a hollow extension with a movable weight inside.

A TFC is a mount with two independent threaded mounts encased in rubber with a metal housing and casing. 
The housing and casing are threaded in order to compress the rubber and adjust stiffness. 

Hope this helps!


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## XCalibre (Aug 31, 2006)

monty53 said:


> Not really, the Doinker is basically a hollow extension with a movable weight inside.
> 
> A TFC is a mount with two independent threaded mounts encased in rubber with a metal housing and casing.
> The housing and casing are threaded in order to compress the rubber and adjust stiffness.
> ...


hmm. never heard of something like that


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## monty53 (Jun 19, 2002)

XCalibre said:


> hmm. never heard of something like that


Here’s a pic of Vic.
See the TFCs between the v-bar and side rods.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

monty53 said:


> TFC means “Torque Flight Compensator”. It was a term originally used by Bear or Hoyt Archery back in the 70s, can’t remember which one.
> 
> The difference is that a TFC is attached to the riser itself, and then the stabilizer is attached to the TFC.
> 
> ...


BEAR-OMNI COUPLER-two different rubber cylinders of different stiffnesses. I have one


HOYT=TORQUE FLIGHT COMPENSATORS (have a set from Ann Hoyt) Used on the VBARS. or on front rods on the top and bottom of the riser. Same Idea.

made aluminum rods suck up a bit more vibration. -or at least that is what they said.


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## XCalibre (Aug 31, 2006)

monty53 said:


> Here’s a pic of Vic.
> See the TFCs between the v-bar and side rods.


i always thought that those were quick-releases...


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Big TFC's for long rods are still made by Bernardini and Spigarelli
Small ones for short rods are stil made by Spigarellli, Best and Shibuya, plus some Ucrainian company.


Talking about W&W TFS rubber sensitivity to temperature, Mr. Park answered to my direct question that the rubber rings and spacers inside the TFS are made by memory type special rubber, that is not temperature sensitive.


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