# big shafts in the wind



## iwannahoyt93 (Dec 13, 2011)

I am thinking about going to a big shaft again. You guys will probably say duhh to me at the end of this but i have a theory that should let you shoot big shafts with little wind drift and will break the spine down for you so they are not so stiff. A few days ago i was searching and looking at the top pros set ups and tehy were shooting gt triple X's. At first i didnt know how cuz those shafts are huge and wind drift on those would be horrible. I know pros shoot alot and have great form but i just think it would be one more x factor do deal with. after a little i found levi morgans arrow set-up on the net from a few years ago but i got the wheels turning and got me thinking on how he does it.
In fita guys shoot heavy arrows with alot of foc to flaten arrow flight and reduce wind drift. So for 3-d your only shooting to 50 yards and the bigger the shaft the more chances of cutting lines and stuff. So instead of shooting skinny arrows, shoot bigger shafts with a stiffer spine and just add point weight to break them down and give you the spine you would shoot with less point weight and a weaker spined arrow and you get a great front of center flatening arrow flight. the weight from the arrow its self will reduces wind drift.
That just my theory. heavier arrow creates less wind drift and alot of point weight breaks down the spine so it isnt so stiff and gives you great front of center. if there is anything wrong with that please tell me. im open to what people think about this.


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## outdoorsman3 (Nov 15, 2010)

I shoot fatboys and have not noticed any wind drift out to 100 yards


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

The bigger arrow does drift in the wind a lot more than a skinny arrow. It depends on the shooter. My fatboys drifted over twice as much as my victory VAPs do. The weight does help in reducing the wind drift but with the weight comes a slower arrow speed which can be crucial in a 3d tournament. I cannot judge yardage very well so i prefer to take a lighter smaller arrow that will shoot flatter. The difference between a small diameter arrow and a fat arrow is still only about a 1/4" which only leads to about 1/8" that you are gaining by catching lines. If the difference in trajectory and wind drift to 50 yards was less than 1/4" then i would say the fat arrow would benefit you, or if you are a very good judge of yardage.


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## iwannahoyt93 (Dec 13, 2011)

whats the O.D. on those shafts. im looking at shooting 30x's or x-cutters. i can shoot series-22's with a hundred grains and blazers so i figured if i add more weight to the 30's or x-cutters than i can break them down to the same spine im shooting now but get better line cutting capablity and better foc and no wind drift. pluss my arrow flight flatens so it gives me more room on forgivingness in yardage judging


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

The VAPs are a very small diameter shaft. Only about 15/64" or .227" in a 400 spine. As far as adding FOC making your arrow flight flatten out it only does a small amount under 50 yards. The lighter arrow will almost always shoot flatter unless you can get your weight very light with a very high FOC which is what you can potentially get with the vaps.


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## BowTecArcher11 (Jun 14, 2011)

Like you said but take the easton fullbores and put a 100 or 85gr tip in them.I mean of coarse it will still drift but less.I use pro hunters smaller shafts but with a 125 gr tip and i will get maybe a inch drift at 30 yards.I would love to change to pro 22's but cant


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

adding tip weight does NOT stop wind drift, never will. Adding tip weight helps steer an arrow at longer ranges and leads to better groups- they may be 8" off of center but they will group slightly better.

fita arrows are built to give the best group size which ends up being heavier shafts with a higher tip weight, not to stop wind drift. If an arrow is gonna drift it is gonna drift, thats how it works. you either need to aim off, click the sight, or shoot between gusts. Now a heavier arrow drifts less, i have under half the drift with injexions as i do with pro tours, but they still drift.

for target arrows if basically comes to this: screw spine, shoot what groups. I have very weak and very stiff arrows that shoot the same exact scores off the same rest setting, bare shaft ok as well. group tune at 50yds until you get what your happy with or the best you can get, thats all there is to target arrows


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

to me if you're shooting 3-d it isnt too big of a deal as far as wind drift because most of the time you're shooting in the woods, at least at almost all the ones I've been to, but yes if you weigh them down some they wont drift as bad in the wind but if you take a fat arrow and a skinny arrow that both weigh the same, the skinnier arrow will have less wind drag because their is less surface area on the small diameter shaft than there is the fat arrow.
theres a reason why all the field archers shoot those x-10's and arrows alot like them. but if it's only for 3-d I dint see too much of a roblem with them, but I quit using my FatBoys for 3-d.
part of it was because I had glue in points and I dont like shooting open class since my bow is set-up for hunting, so I shoot bowhunter class, and I just dont care too much for a fat shaft. 
once I start shooting 3-d again soon, I'm gonna be using some Easton Flatline Surgicals with inserts and screw in points.

now my Fatboys did shoot very well, but all the shoots that I went to and won my class at was with my hunting arrows which were at the time some Axis FMJ's which weighed 420 grains, but u dont have to be that heavy that was my hunting arrows.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

I shoot ACG's for FITA. Despite the small diameter of these arrows, I have still had to aim almost off the paper at times to hit the 10. When I played with X10s a bit, a little smaller shaft than my ACGs, they hit about 1 scoring ring closer to the 10 in the same wind conditions. If that much of a difference in diameter makes a whole points difference, imagine the difference between a small FITA arrow and a fatboy? I'm not saying not to shoot line cutters for 3D, because clearly they work, but there's really nothing you can do about the wind drift if you go that rout.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

from some of your other posts i gathered you are a fairly decent shooter, if thats the case what would you rather have people aiming at and which arrow would you rather cram into a 12 ring, XXX's or protours?


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## iwannahoyt93 (Dec 13, 2011)

good point thats why i shot nano forces last year. theres like no wind drift and if they shoot great then you dont need fat shafts to cut lines. Plus when being in the x its harder to hit a smaller shaft.


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

never use what the pros shoot as your guideline they will shoot what they get payed money to shoot... and you mentioned there form is way more solid than most which all comes into play at longer distances


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## justin120197 (Jul 8, 2012)

i shoot both skinny and fat they both work great


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## austinpope20 (Aug 5, 2012)

I hunt with xcutters and shoot with be challengers see little difference


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

I'll try and break it down. You basically have 2 different trains of thought for 2 completely different types of archery. Now like Jake said, more tip weight will equate to better groups at distance and also help the arrow become more forgiving by getting it to spine correctly so lets go from there.

Field, and more importantly Fita, small diameter arrows are used because it is easier to make them in a wide variety of finely tuned spines so they will ultimately group better and more easily (without spending hours tuning). Since Fita is generally shot in open fields where wind can blow through at a high speed, it is more important to have a small dia arrow. In Fita, you shoot 72 arrows for a round at a known distance, from the same spot. So people don't care as much about a heavy arrow as long as it is forgiving, accurate and makes it to the target. 

3D is generally more secluded and protected in the woods so wind is not as big of an issue. You also have to judge yardage accurately to within the .5 yard to hit where you want to. This causes many people to shoot a larger dia arrow to accommodate for judging yardage since wind isn't as important. 3Der's generally shoot very light arrows as well (close to 5 gp#) so that your arrow drops and it is therefore easier for you to be a little off on your yardage and hit where you want to (ish). Here you shoot roughly 30 arrows, one at a time. It is easier to make 30 good shots when they are 1 at a time versus 6 arrows in 4 minutes. This is why people are less concerned with spine and moreso worried about speed and diameter.

As for the debate on heavy arrow vs light arrow in the wind...I personally like a lighter, faster arrow. And when I say arrow, I mean the shaft. When the shaft is lighter I can put more tip weight in and still have a light, fast arrow. The physics is simple. A heavier arrow has more inertia, which means it will tend to stay on the path it is following when a force is applied. So in other words, it takes more force to push a heavier arrow than a lighter arrow aka wind drift. So we can say that a heavier arrow will drift less than a lighter arrow. Diameter also plays a part in this since the force the wind has on an arrows depends on its diameter. With a larger diameter, there is more arrow for the wind to "grab hold of" and pull off course. So a small diameter arrow will drift less than a large diameter arrow of the same weight. The last thing to take into account is time. The force that the wind pushes the arrows happens over a set period of time (the time its in the air). So this means an arrow in the air for a shorter period of time will drift less than the same arrow that is in the air for a longer period of time. This is why wind drift is more visible at longer distances; the arrow is in the air longer. So, to lessen the time the arrow is in the air, you want a bow that shoots a high fps. And the way to gain fps is to use a lighter arrow...and now we are back where we began. I have not run the numbers to determine if time or arrow weight are most crucial, however both do affect wind drift in varying degrees.

Basically you want to fine a happy combo of fps, arrow weight and dia for your application. Ideally you would want to shoot a small diameter arrow as heavy as you can make it while still keeping your fps right at the upper limit of what is allowed.


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

2 more things:

1. The name of this thread made me laugh 
2. Sorry for the novel above, I was bored waiting for the new Hoyts and wanted to kill some time haha


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## 12-RING SHOOTER (Jul 27, 2010)

Big shafts drift more then skinny shafts..thats a gimme. Field,Fita known yardage skinny arrows, we all talk about arrow drift in wind, what about pin drift, heck when its windy my arrows drift but so does my pin so for me its hard to tell how much drift? 

3d think I might jump to 27s Fullbores possibly after seeing how they flew out of a machine..might be the ticket, I wont shoot unknown 3d where wind isnt much a issue 98% of the time with skinny shafts. come to think of it, dont think I seen a skinny shaft at Metro last year?


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

Only way to get good shooting in the wind is to shoot in the wind. I'll personally run a Protours or something comparable for 3d. Fat shafts for anything but 20 yards doesn't appeal to or work with me


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## 12-RING SHOOTER (Jul 27, 2010)

Mathewsju said:


> Only way to get good shooting in the wind is to shoot in the wind. I'll personally run a Protours or something comparable for 3d. Fat shafts for anything but 20 yards doesn't appeal to or work with me


yep thats true, But are your scores compareable on windy and non windy days?...go shoot skinny shafts in the ASA....your going to leave points on the course.

Hi Ho hi Ho...off to farm i go.


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

Will I leave points, yes. But I also feel like I pick up points on longer shots because of how they group


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

Until I start running the 3d circuit seriously, I'm not going to invest the time it will take to make my 22s or 24s fly like Protours


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## bcbow1971 (Oct 24, 2007)

Revisiting this....I shot XRingers 24 series arrows for two years and they worked great for 3D but then I switched to VAP's/Nano's and really liked the way they grouped and I scored really good with them. Look at Levi and some other good shooters they shoot standard size.246 or Pro Hunters and score great. Depends on how good you and the arrow are shooting. If a fat arrow shoots good thats great but wind will affect all arrows just smaller arrows less. I am undecided and have 5 different size arrows I will be testing on my remodeled target bow when it comes back.....I want to shoot fat as possible for scores but will not sacrifice accuracy for size. I have dropped DL by almost 3/4" and pounds by 7-9lbs to make me more accurate and not worry about speed as much as yardage estimation. 

I do know whatever I shoot I shoot as good as I can afford and get .001 straightness if possible and take my time flecthing them with patience and accuracy as well. I think that to each his own and what the pros shoot is quality but is it for you......Take 6ft 6" Tim Gillingham I respect him and listen to what he preaches but I am not 6'6".....5'8" and I prefer shorter ATA bow so I shoot what works for me and most times that goes back to what has worked best in the past. Old habits die hard!!


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Top shooters are running .001 more because that's what they are given over it's actually better


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

N7709K said:


> Top shooters are running .001 more because that's what they are given over it's actually better


Yep, give me a dz .006 arrows, a saw, and 10 min and at least 10 of em will be .001 tolerance when I'm done

People like Levi shoot smaller (relatively speaking) dia shafts because 1. He can judge yardage to the foot, if not better and 2. You're less likely to hit another persons arrow and bounce out of the 12 into the 10 or 8 rings


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

I just build them and shoot, some of the best arrows i've ever shot have been .006 straightness; only reason i have pro's is because tim sent them.


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

fat shafts drift real bad compared to a standard size shaft. most 3d-ers try to keep their arrows light so a fat light shaft vs a small heavier shaft in the wind is like throwing a beach ball vs a baseball in the wind. Whats going to happen? Then the controversy over fat shafts vs smaller shafts on the 3d coarse is up to shooting style and opinion is the bottom line. Both styles of arrows have been proven to work so shoot what works for you not because so and so are shooting them.


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## underdog145 (Dec 6, 2009)

do some testing guys. A set of GT pro hunters weighin in at 375 will drift the same at 50 meters as a set of XXX at 375. The same enough that we cant and wont really notice as humans.


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## Ignition kid (Oct 7, 2008)

I see your logic in it now but one thing to also consider for some people, idk if this matters to you but if u want 2 shoot the fastest arrow speed you are allowed to I'd rather be able to need to slow my bow down some by reducing the poundage making it even easier to shoot. either way I guess for 3-d imo you'd be fine.
for me now I dont see much better chances with having a slightly bigger diameter arrow than with a regular sized arrow to get that more points. I guess in a big 3-d shoot where every extra point makes the difference of placing in tht shoot but I personally am fine with a small diameter arrow.

and on the other end I dont think you're gonna notice all that more wind drift with those larger diameter arrows mostly cause the shots are within 50yds and as I said before u arent out in the open but maybe a fraction of the shoot.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

changing poundage(unless through limb def) isn't really how you want to go.. changes too many other things to make it a first choice. arrow weight is the best option


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