# my take on the arrow saw



## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Started designing my arrow saw today..
Maybe over engineered but what the heck...

I wanted to have the ability to fully support the nock end perfectly square to the jig and be able to easily slide it for length adjustment. Decided to go with a main rail of 80-20.( I have a lot of it laying around too!:teeth

These are all just trial runs to dry fit everything, but I think this is going to work well.
I also wanted the arrow to be supported by inserting a piece into the end, I made it as an insert so I can make different sizes for any OD, ID and wall thickness.

I was going to use magnets to really hold the insert piece in, but the tolerances are perfect. Everything snaps together tight and pulls apart with a little tug..no need for magnets.

These parts are for the uncut nock end. I have the Mini Cutoff saw and have to figure out that end yet, definitely a work in progress...
I hope the pictures explain how its going to work


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Here is the little insert that gets stuck into the end of the arrow, and then into the receiver


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Here it is on the rail and on the rail with an arrow


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## ilhunter997 (May 4, 2012)

Would like to see how it turns out. Good luck


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

I'm a little worried about the cutoff saw not being able to provide a good square cut on the other end....may go through a lot of work only to switch it to a dremmel type tool?


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## ilhunter997 (May 4, 2012)

redruff said:


> I'm a little worried about the cutoff saw not being able to provide a good square cut on the other end....may go through a lot of work only to switch it to a dremmel type tool?


Not sure, I've got a saw I bought from cabelas and the saw part of it looks just like a cutoff saw you would buy at harbor freight


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

ilhunter997 said:


> Not sure, I've got a saw I bought from cabelas and the saw part of it looks just like a cutoff saw you would buy at harbor freight


really! can you post some pictures?


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## ILDEERHUNTER (Mar 15, 2007)

I have everything I need to make a saw myself. My biggest fear is going to be getting the saw to cut perfectly square. Not sure on how to mount the dremel tool to the angle iron


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## ilhunter997 (May 4, 2012)

Coulda swore I had pics of it on my phone... Guess not, here's a pic off their website it's called the cabelas arrow cut off saw If you to take a look at it online


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

Being a wood worker, I have always questioned current arrow saws. Its never made any sense to move the shaft across the blade. No one cuts wood with the intention of getting a perfectly square cut by moving the wood into the blade on an arc. In theory, this has to lead to a less than perfect cut. 

If you want to get really picky about getting a square, consistent cut, the only way to do that is to bring the tool to the shaft and not the shaft to the tool...like a chop saw / miter saw. Support the shaft in a stationary position and then lower a cutting disc onto the shaft. The cutting disc must be square to the shaft. Once its square, this design guarantees a perfectly square end and dead on consistency. 

If it were me, I would design a hinge that allows whatever cutting tool you choose to move perpendicular to the shaft that is supported along its length and does not move. Just a thought.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

dblungem said:


> Being a wood worker, I have always questioned current arrow saws. Its never made any sense to move the shaft across the blade. No one cuts wood with the intention of getting a perfectly square cut by moving the wood into the blade on an arc. In theory, this has to lead to a less than perfect cut.
> 
> If you want to get really picky about getting a square, consistent cut, the only way to do that is to bring the tool to the shaft and not the shaft to the tool...like a chop saw / miter saw. Support the shaft in a stationary position and then lower a cutting disc onto the shaft. The cutting disc must be square to the shaft. Once its square, this design guarantees a perfectly square end and dead on consistency.
> 
> If it were me, I would design a hinge that allows whatever cutting tool you choose to move perpendicular to the shaft that is supported along its length and does not move. Just a thought.


That's exactly how this is going to work...
Nuts and Bolts just gave me the idea on how to mount the saw so I can easily square it up using threaded rod!


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## imthemedic (Oct 27, 2011)

So why couldn't I just use the saw in the picture above to cut arrows?


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

imthemedic said:


> So why couldn't I just use the saw in the picture above to cut arrows?


No reason not to...I'm just into engineering a jig to go along with it....


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## Ford1978 (Mar 18, 2013)

Change it to an abrasive cut of disc and should work just fine. Don't use the toothed disc, it'll chatter and tear, especially on carbon arrows.


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

I use mine on carbons and they will tear, if you go too fast. The trick is slow. I also leave mine clamped with just enough tension to allow me to rotate the arrow, and just score the outer edge all the way around first.

I discovered that even if you went slow sometimes if I pushed too hard, it was cutting through the bottom of the arrow that caused the splinter. That is why I score my arrows first now. Yes an abrasive disk would be perfect, but I cannot find a THIN one in 2" dia, with the proper size hole opening to mount on the saw.

If someone knows of a source I would love that.

dblungem

I agree with you 100% and posted almost identical comments on another DIY cutoff saw thread. The whole industries design of sliding your arrows into the saw never made sense to me. It just created a need for more tools to FIX the screwed up end of the arrow, that you just caused. Ie arrow squaring devices.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

dblungem said:


> Being a wood worker, I have always questioned current arrow saws. Its never made any sense to move the shaft across the blade. No one cuts wood with the intention of getting a perfectly square cut by moving the wood into the blade on an arc. In theory, this has to lead to a less than perfect cut.
> 
> If you want to get really picky about getting a square, consistent cut, the only way to do that is to bring the tool to the shaft and not the shaft to the tool...like a chop saw / miter saw. Support the shaft in a stationary position and then lower a cutting disc onto the shaft. The cutting disc must be square to the shaft. Once its square, this design guarantees a perfectly square end and dead on consistency.
> 
> If it were me, I would design a hinge that allows whatever cutting tool you choose to move perpendicular to the shaft that is supported along its length and does not move. Just a thought.


The biggest difference is that an arrow is a thin wall tube. And you don't just push the arrow into the tool. You set it so that it barely cuts the tube wall, then spin the arrow. If you push the tool all the way through, you will get tear out on the back surface. The spinning gives you the square edges, even if the blade isn't perfectly square. 

It's a little like cutting plywood. The smoothest cut with the least tear out is when you set the saw blade to barely cut through.

Allen


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## Maui Rhino (Mar 13, 2010)

I use the HF cut-off saw, and never had a problem. I replaced the toothed wheel with an abrasive disc I picked up at my local Home Depot. It was larger diamter than the 2" disk the HF saw is designed for, but had the same size spindle hole. I just left off the blade guard, and it works fine. (Of course, I am extra careful with my fingers and to wear safety glasses, since there is no guard now.) I clamp the end of the arrow in the clamp you see in Redruff's picture. Snug enough to hold the arrow, but just loose enough to be able to spin the arrow. As others said, when cutting, I lower the chopsaw enough to cut into the top of the arrow, and then slowly spin the arrow to cut the rest of the shaft. I also wrap my arrow in blue painters tape at the cut point to eliminate splintering. I get reasonably square cuts every time, however, I always follow up with a G-5 ASD anyway. To support the shaft in the middle, I use my DIY arrow spinning tool consisting of 4 skateboard bearings on L brackets mounted on a board. My clamp at the nock end is pretty basic and I'd like to do something better, but it works. I took a large L bracket and drilled a small hole part way though it to create a socket slightly larger than the OD of my arrows. The bracket is just clamped to my workbench. I was careful to make sure the socket holds my arrows at the right height, as determined by my arrow spinner. I also had to mount the chopsaw on a base of plywood to raise it up to the same height as my arrow spinner, which doubles as a nice place to clamp it to my work bench as well. Having three spearate assemblies (saw, spinner, and nock clamp) makes storage easier than having one 36" long assembly, since I am only cutting a couple dozen arrows a year. It also makes it convenient when I want to use the chop saw on other small projects.


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## Ultra Limited (May 11, 2006)

Read something about carbon dust from arrow shaft cuts, and evacuating it. Found this just now;

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=752874


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Alright,
got my cad files all assembled and printed..

looking great for arrow support. Now on to mounting the saw.
I'm going to mount it to a plate and give it 2 degrees of freedom..then using fine threaded screws I can adjust it in the X and Y to be perfectly square.

Going to think on that over the weekend.


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

My only suggestion would be to support the arrow closer to the blade. In my experience with these saws, you can easily push the arrow down while cutting, it doesn't take much force, and this will throw off the square of the cut, no matter how well it's aligned.

Maybe if you raised the saw so the shaft aligned with the saws built in clamp?


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

yes, the saw has to come to support the arrow more, agreed.


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

aread said:


> The biggest difference is that an arrow is a thin wall tube. And you don't just push the arrow into the tool. You set it so that it barely cuts the tube wall, then spin the arrow. If you push the tool all the way through, you will get tear out on the back surface. The spinning gives you the square edges, even if the blade isn't perfectly square.
> 
> It's a little like cutting plywood. The smoothest cut with the least tear out is when you set the saw blade to barely cut through.
> 
> Allen


I get what your saying and I do that exact process now with my dremmel cut off saw that I made. But, with the thin blade and very high rpm, I can push the shaft straight thru the blade (own purpose and agreed, not the right technique) and not get any tear out. I just tested it. I don't get a square cut, but there is zero tear out. Spinning a shaft by hand is not as accurate of a process as it could be - admitting that I'm being anal about it. 

OP - lets see if I can describe what I had in mind when I thought of rebuilding what I have. What if the arrow was supported along its entire length on the track system you have. The saw blade will cut the shaft and (follow me for a second) part of the track as well. Your creating a kerf in the track the exact width of your cutting disc. The nock support is the only thing in the system that moves and adjusts for arrow length. Granted, it would have to be much lower to the track than it is now. This way, the shaft is supported all the way up to the point of the cutting disc. The saw then would have to be mounted in back of the track somehow or the track needs to be run through (and past) the cutting disc. 

Relating back to my wood working, its much like a table saw cross cut sled (google it - 100's of pics). I get zero tear out on any wood I cut on it because the kerf is the exact size of the blade (cutting disc) and the wood (shaft) is supported by the track only up to the exact point of being cut. I hope that makes sense.


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

Regarding my post above, maybe a zero clearance plate would be a better example. Not sure if I'm making any sense or not. Lol.


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

But don't cut arrows on your bed, at least not without the vacuum attachment...


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

jrdrees said:


> But don't cut arrows on your bed, at least not without the vacuum attachment...


I'll try to remember that!


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

dblungem said:


> Regarding my post above, maybe a zero clearance plate would be a better example. Not sure if I'm making any sense or not. Lol.


Sketch?


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## dblungem (Dec 2, 2008)

redruff said:


> Sketch?


Picture your track running thru the entire saw - all the way past the spot where the cutting disc hits. The shaft sets on that track (not suspended in the air the way it is now). Once your saw is perfectly square to that track make a cut thru the track (only partially thru). This makes a gap or kerf the exact size of the cutting disc. Now, when you cut your shafts, it is supported on every part of the shaft - the shaft will not move, the cut will be exact with no tear out.


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

Here's a link to the one I built a few years back and still using it...Works great and cuts square enough.

Everything was 1/4" pinned and laid out off a digital machining center.
Even the V guides in the blocks were NC'D. 

I cut down an abrasive wheel for my cutting tool.
I have to rotate the shaft (Spin) while cutting.

I just squared up the blade. (Laid out the blade cutting area on the small aluminum table)
Glued & Screwed all the parts and ready to go.

Once arrows are cut and inserts are glued in...I cant seem to help myself I have to run them across my squaring tool.
If the saw cut is within a 1/32" of an inch...Fine with me...I'm not taking off that much material...maybe a 1/64" of an inch on one side most of the time.
I personally don't think you will get them cut dead nuts square with the harbor freight saw...*Heck the saw isn't even made within these tolerances...LOL*

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showt...=3714372&highlight=harbor freight#post3714372

The clamp on the sliding block came out of the McMaster Carr book...Lookup Toggle or Hold down clamps.

The saw is a harbor freight saw.
I wouldn't trade it.

You on the right track...Show us pics when your done.


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

I've been online TRYING to find a 2" dia cutting wheel and there are none to be found, not yet anyway. Wonder if a special order could be made, on a bulk buy? For kicks I tried with my 1.5" Dremel blade. The Dremel blade is .045" thick and has an opening of .145" or about 1/8". The screw for the blade assembly fits perfect. That thing cuts those carbons like butter, but only about half way through, unfortunately, so it still has to be rotated. I would like to avoid doing that if possible.


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## straddleridge (Apr 28, 2010)

If you want a 2 inch cutoff wheel for the harbor freight mini cutoff saw use the Weiler vortec cut-off wheel. 1/16" thck & 3/8" arbor. item #36533. I used the hf mini cutoff saw for a while but was not satisfied with the job it did. 

To the op - to align the nock end of the arrow look into Igus flange bearings.


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

Where can you purchase a piece of the track and the fittings that are being used to hold the arrow? Can the pieces that are holding the arrow slide along the track? What is the diameter of the hole in the pieces that hold the arrow and can you buy the diameter you need or can you enlarge the hole by drilling it larger if need be?
Thanks,
Raymond


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## ILDEERHUNTER (Mar 15, 2007)

Ebay has a Weston arrow bracket which should slide along some aluminum angle Iron. Thats what I ordered off ebay and plan on using with my Dremel tool


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## Squigly1965 (Dec 11, 2009)

That track is from 8020 it's extruded aluminum 
You can make all kinds of stuff with it. A guy has a 72" belt grinder on eBay made of the stuff.
You can also find 8020 on eBay . It's like the grown up erector set

Sent from my ARCHOS 80G9 using Tapatalk 4


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Yes, the track is 80 20.

The green arrow holder pieces are custom printed by me.
I made them in two parts. One part slides along the rail.

Then its hard to see in the pictures, there is an insert that actual holds the arrow.

I made them separate so all you would need to do is swap out the little round insert for different OD and ID of narrows.

Right now its got an insert for a gt xt hunter 5575 arrow. Cuz thats what I shoot right now


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

ILDEERHUNTER said:


> Ebay has a Weston arrow bracket which should slide along some aluminum angle Iron. Thats what I ordered off ebay and plan on using with my Dremel tool


If I wanted to order one of them the shipping is almost $36.00. The part itself is only costs $11.99. I guess I would not be buying one from there, LOL.
Thanks,
Raymond


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

redruff said:


> Yes, the track is 80 20.
> 
> The green arrow holder pieces are custom printed by me.
> I made them in two parts. One part slides along the rail.
> ...


redruff, 
I have to ask, what do you mean when you say, "The green arrow holder pieces are custom printed by me.". I am confused a bit. I know that I am not up on technology like I used to be. But you don't mean to tell me that you are using a printer of some sort to make items like that with today.
Thanks,
Raymond


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## ILDEERHUNTER (Mar 15, 2007)

Raymond 1 said:


> If I wanted to order one of them the shipping is almost $36.00. The part itself is only costs $11.99. I guess I would not be buying one from there, LOL.
> Thanks,
> Raymond


Something isn't right because I got free shipping. I believe the seller is bowhuntersuperstore. com. The one fron PA


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

Raymond 1 said:


> redruff,
> I have to ask, what do you mean when you say, "The green arrow holder pieces are custom printed by me.". I am confused a bit. I know that I am not up on technology like I used to be. But you don't mean to tell me that you are using a printer of some sort to make items like that with today.
> Thanks,
> Raymond


I believe this is what he is talking about - a 3D printer.

http://www.makerbot.com/


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

ILDEERHUNTER said:


> Something isn't right because I got free shipping. I believe the seller is bowhuntersuperstore. com. The one fron PA


To purchase a Weston Arrow Saw Shaft Position Bracket from bowhuntersuperstore.com, it would cost me $5.99 for the part, and $20.00 for the cost of shipping for my location. Is there more than one Bowhunter Superstore location?
Thanks,
Raymond


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## ILDEERHUNTER (Mar 15, 2007)

I just ordered the part Friday off e-bay. 11.99 for the part. Free shipping. Where do you live?


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

Perry24 said:


> I believe this is what he is talking about - a 3D printer.
> 
> http://www.makerbot.com/


Man, what next. I can only imagine what I could do with that. My I would love to have one.


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

ILDEERHUNTER said:


> I just ordered the part Friday off e-bay. 11.99 for the part. Free shipping. Where do you live?


Nova Scotia, Canada


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## ILDEERHUNTER (Mar 15, 2007)

I see it's going to CA. Shipping is horrible between the US and Canada. 

Just checked ebay 
shipping to you is $35.00 that blows


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes, it suck blows is right.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Raymond 1 said:


> redruff,
> I have to ask, what do you mean when you say, "The green arrow holder pieces are custom printed by me.". I am confused a bit. I know that I am not up on technology like I used to be. But you don't mean to tell me that you are using a printer of some sort to make items like that with today.
> Thanks,
> Raymond


http://www.stratasys.com/3d-printers/design-series/performance/dimension-1200es

I have a commercial 3d printer at worker. It is the big cousin to makerbot type stuff.
It is accurate to 0.01 inches.

It prints in ABS plastic so some things that come out are functional some aren't. Depends on the application and how its printed. It takes screws and super glue really well.
So anything you can CAD up you can print!


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

That is sweet.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

finally got back to this...

here is my prototype.

The green saw base is slotted so I can square up in the X direction.
I'm going to put a screw up from the bottom for the Y direction.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

redruff said:


> finally got back to this...
> 
> Here is my prototype.
> 
> ...


nice.


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## del lanati (Sep 8, 2012)

hi 
i made one of these six months ago i add different attachments so i can use it as an arrow spinner
and spine tester


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## Extreme vft17 (Mar 29, 2007)

nice


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Well finished it up.....but wait there is more....I got into researching squaring devices....then it hit me.....hey mine can that! Just get some 220 grit sticky back sand paper and stick it on the back of a support and flip it around!
Perfect!
I think I am going to mount it to plywood so I have a place to attach a ruler. And lastly, need to get a vacuum hose attachment. The cutoff wheel I got produces a lot of dust!


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

Here it is in squaring mode....didn't have any sandpaper though


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

straddleridge said:


> If you want a 2 inch cutoff wheel for the harbor freight mini cutoff saw use the Weiler vortec cut-off wheel. 1/16" thck & 3/8" arbor. item #36533. I used the hf mini cutoff saw for a while but was not satisfied with the job it did.
> 
> To the op - to align the nock end of the arrow look into Igus flange bearings.


I found the weiler cut off wheel at my local Ace for $3....just FYI.


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