# USA Archery Magazine to be scrapped



## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

In a bid to save $50,000 the USA Archery Magazine produced by the NAA is set to be scrapped. Also set be deleted from the 2009 budget is the Coach Development Manager position which was never filled. There also will be no money allocated for international travel. Part of the budget short fall is likely caused by $100k reduction in USOC financial commitment to archery. 

Personally loosing the magazine wouldn't be such a hardship if the website reflected usability and capability. I get so sick of downloading pdfs. 

Information gleaned from the January 26th financial update (pdf).


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2008)

that's lame


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> that's lame


I was a bit surprised to be truthful. I used to write for a membership magazine that not only paid for itself, but full time editors, classified staff, and put big bucks back in the coffers. All on 25K issues a month. Sorry, no idea what the circulation on the NAA magazine is...


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## jbrown2036 (May 16, 2008)

*Magazine*

the magazine is about all I get from my membership. can't really think of a reason to stay a member. zero support, zero money, confusion in mngmt and no clear direction. sometimes I wish I'd taken up golf.

sorry, just grumpin


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Selil said:


> In a bid to save $50,000 the USA Archery Magazine produced by the NAA is set to be scrapped. Also set be deleted from the 2009 budget is the Coach Development Manager position which was never filled. There also will be no money allocated for international travel. Part of the budget short fall is likely caused by $100k reduction in USOC financial commitment to archery.
> 
> Personally loosing the magazine wouldn't be such a hardship if the website reflected usability and capability. I get so sick of downloading pdfs.
> 
> Information gleaned from the January 26th financial update (pdf).



Website??? The NAA doesn't have a _web_ site. The USArchery site reminds me more of an FTP site, with all the convenience that brings... 

Oh, and what information it does have in HTML isn't necessarily accurate, or consistent.

If you check the NAA's STP Adult Achievement Levels you'll find that there are 3 different and conflicting standards, though I alerted them to it late last year (there is a nice ex-NAA official working on it, though).

http://www.usarchery.org/usarchery/html/AdultSeniorTrainingProgram.html

http://www.usarchery.org/html/AdultTrainingProgram.html

http://www.usaarcheryjoad.org/files/USAAAdultAchievementProgram.doc

The different standards not only differ in how many points are needed for each achievement level, they don't even agree on whether there are three equipment classes or two, not to mention the fact that to earn the top achievement level for "Longbow" (basically their name for barebow class) you have to beat the 13 year standing Star FITA record by 4 points!!)

Frankly, the USArchery website is embarrassing and has essentially no information for new or aspiring archers. Type in "learn archery" to their search box and you get Zero results. There are no FAQ's, no on line manuals, no links even to the extensive instructional site of their head coach!!! Nothing!!!!!


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> that's lame


It is too bad, but with the mandatory subscription fee, the magazine served to cost members more. One wonders if the membership fee will stay at the same higher rate even though the magazine will be cancelled. I'd assume it will have to or they won't actually make up the shortfall...


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

*ArcheryFocus not entirely gone*

Actually, the magazine is not entirely eliminated - if you read the 2nd line, you'll find it will be available online. I assume members will get a log-in. However, I agree with most of you criticisms. If I want info, I use the Texas site or our state organization's site. 

We've been poorly served, to say the least - not to mention of the funds embezzled by an employee and the botched election and the online tournament registration contract (approved by whom, exactly?). 

re: ArcheryFocus - note 2nd sentence:
"Elimination of the USA Archery magazine for 2009 ($50,000 savings)
We will be posting online only (not printing and mailing) the 2008 winter edition of USA Archery magazine within the next couple of weeks. We will be eliminating the print magazine for 2009 and will review our overall membership communication strategy in the upcoming months to determine what method we will use to communicate effectively to our membership going forward."


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## Steve N (Apr 27, 2004)

My NAA membership is due in February. Now that there is no more online magazine, what is my membership fee? This should be an interesting phone call today.


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

I think there will be an online magazine, but the question is will it be any good. Looking at the current web presence likely not.


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## JDT_Dad (Nov 5, 2008)

Selil said:


> I think there will be an online magazine, but the question is will it be any good. Looking at the current web presence likely not.


They will probably publish the magazine as a PDF. That is how past issues have been disseminated on the web site. The past electronic versions of the magazine have been exact copies of the print version. Here is a link to the Fall 2008 issue of USA Archery: 

http://www.usarchery.org/userfiles/file/USSA Fall '08.pdf


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

The membership fee remains $50.00. 

I'm not sorry to see the magazine go. It wasn't all that special.


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## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

Hmmmm... I hope they drop the membership fee down to reflect the change.
Whether they do or not... I'm not holding my breath. :wink:


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Don't remember off the top of my head when my membership comes due but it's going to be hard to talk myself into renewing. What exactly am I going to get for the $50?

Dave


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## DFArcher (Mar 15, 2006)

Well that does suck. My kid REALLY looks forward to the magazine, he has the last one pinned up because his pic is in it. Guess all the membership fee gets you know is the "privilege" to pay the entry fees and participate in certain shoots.


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## introverted (Jan 2, 2009)

Warbow said:


> Website??? The NAA doesn't have a _web_ site. The USArchery site reminds me more of an FTP site, with all the convenience that brings...


ya know, a lot of archery sites are like that, the ASA website is god awful too (almost none of those links on the front page work), not to mention the countless other websites for manufacturers and suppliers that take FOREVER to get updated (i.e. lancaster, archerywarehouse) i buy almost all of my equipment online because i only have one 'dealer' in my area, and i use that term in the loosest sense possible because they always give me the impression that they'd rather not have me there

what gives? are archers that out of touch with technology? heck, i could probably make better sites than most of them with my basic high school knowledge of java and html. AT is probably the most competent of all the sites i've seen so far MEH

and the NAA website going under, no funding, what gives, is archery THAT unpopular?


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## gonehuntin (Dec 2, 2004)

DFArcher said:


> Well that does suck. My kid REALLY looks forward to the magazine, he has the last one pinned up because his pic is in it. Guess all the membership fee gets you know is the "privilege" to pay the entry fees and participate in certain shoots.


Welll that's cool... wish I could get my pic in it :wink: I don't know.... lotta wrinkles... to many donuts..... on second thought..... never mind..

Tell him we said "atta boy!"

I emailed Denise and asked her about y'all's concerns about the magazine... she said that they plan to put next this edition online... and they would be considering exactly how best to proceed after that... the magazine isn't going away...


Myself, I prefer online...no more paper than necessary through the stupid snail mail! Hooorrraaayyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbs_up
Hope that helps...


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## Archerycat (Mar 1, 2007)

USArchery.org should take a good look at USASwimming.org website.

Great information for Swimmers, Parents coaches and spectators.


I have a question; Is our sport dying?? How long before archery is removed from the Olympics.


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

gonehuntin said:


> I emailed Denise and asked her about y'all's concerns about the magazine... she said that they plan to put next this edition online... and they would be considering exactly how best to proceed after that... the magazine isn't going away...


Thank you! It is good to know the content may be around, though the revenue stream from the magazine will obviously be sharply curtailed. If it is going to be online there are MUCH better ways to get that content online than pdfs. That is one way, but not nearly the best way or even a good way.


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## gonehuntin (Dec 2, 2004)

Selil said:


> Thank you! It is good to know the content may be around, though the revenue stream from the magazine will obviously be sharply curtailed. If it is going to be online there are MUCH better ways to get that content online than pdfs. That is one way, but not nearly the best way or even a good way.


Wanna pm me and give me some suggestions? Or you could offer suggestions right here online.. you choose, everyone will be appreciative, either way, I assure you.

Thanks.
Ginger


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

gonehuntin said:


> Wanna pm me and give me some suggestions? Or you could offer suggestions right here online.. you choose, everyone will be appreciative, either way, I assure you.
> 
> Thanks.
> Ginger


I'm guessing Selil has some pretty darn good insight.

I'd say you have some insight yourself. Just look at your own website. What do you emphasize? You emphasize how to get into archery and how to get better at archery. Instruction for archers and coaches. First thing. Most important thing. Recruitment is vital. USArchery? Zip. Nada. Type in "Learn Archery" into the search box, you get literally zero results. You can eventually find out that JOAD exists, but there is no _general_ overview about what kind of archery the NAA does, what kind of training is available, how tournaments work, etc.

As to the content that is on the NAA's site, they post PDF's because they are lazy. It is easy for someone to generate a letter or document in a word processor and print to PDF and have some one throw the document onto the website. It makes the work flow easy, but it means you don't really have a functioning web site with **web** pages but a document download site. The NAA needs a workflow that allows them to easily update there actual website rather than just filling it with PDFs.


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## TGStan (Dec 30, 2008)

I said this in a previous thread - to grow the sport it needs to be two things; accessible, and exciting. 

You make it accessible through the functionality of the website and the promotion of JOAD programs. You make it exciting by promoting the champions and the results of big events. The latter gives kids and archers of all ages something to shoot for; the former helps provide the means to get there.

Currently there seems to be a failure of both aspects. 

Kobe sells sneakers and puts people in the seats - I bet Vic Wunderle and Dave Cousins could sell a few NAA memberships and some JOAD enrollment if positioned right. As it is I'd be surprised if a single kid in my local JOAD program has even heard of either of them.

I’m not fluent with the politics of modern day USArchery, nor do I have the slightest inclination to familiarize myself with the drama, but I’m pretty sure it’s not as complicated as some people make it out to be.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

TGStan said:


> You make it accessible through the functionality of the website and the promotion of JOAD programs. You make it exciting by promoting the champions and the results of big events. The latter gives kids and archers of all ages something to shoot for; the former helps provide the means to get there.
> 
> Currently there seems to be a failure of both aspects


Quite. The website has a few basic functions it needs to fulfill: To service the needs of current membership, and to effectively ***sell*** target archery to the public to recruit new members. The current site fails on both accounts, especially the latter.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Ummm….are we going to shoot the new management because of the old management’s poor excuse of a magazine or website? Denise was editor of Archery Focus Magazine for a period of time before she moved on to do more marketing and publishing in other fields. I am sure she knows that the site is not high quality or even substandard, but I really hope we don’t tar and feather her before she gets a chance to fix a lot of problems. After all, we have been getting more updates and communication from her since November than the past four CEO’s did in the last 10 years combined. She didn’t develop the web site, she just inherited it. Nor was she involved with the financial mess she has to deal with right now. I am sure she can and will fix a lot of things in due time. 

Do you people know the monumental task given to our Interim CEO and new board? The organization is a mess and she has offered to take on the task of fixing a huge amount of mistakes that have been made for years. Give them time and I bet they will fix most of the problems. However, it is good for you to vent, just don’t shoot anyone! ukey: Give her the constructive criticism she needs so she knows she is heading in the right direction. 

I for one have offered to help and volunteered my time for the first time since 1995 because I finally see a group of people who are making the effort to make things right for this organization and the membership. I hope you consider to do so as well or at least give them a bit more time to fix a lot of issues.

For those who just want to whine and nothing else, I highly suggest a good sharp cheddar and some excellent crackers to go with it…. It’s wonderful on the palate! :wink:


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Rick McKinney said:


> For those who just want to whine and nothing else, I highly suggest a good sharp cheddar and some excellent crackers to go with it…. It’s wonderful on the palate! :wink:


I supposed that depends on whether all criticism of the current situation is necessarily "whining." What I _haven't_ seen in this thread is anyone criticize Denise Parker, specifically. But, even though she offers a new hope to the organization, the awkward flip flops on the magazine from optional, to required, to cancelled print edition make for a discontinuity that rather calls attention to itself to the membership, so it certainly isn't without some reason that it engenders a vigorous conversation.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

My apologizes if I hit a sore spot. I guess I see it as complaining about the person in charge. After all, it is her responsibility to make every effort to fix a lot of things within the organization. However, when I read people saying they are going to drop their membership because they are not getting a magazine I find that whining. Or am I presuming it was just in jest? Or they want to have their hand held? Or something else I am not aware of? I don’t see the flip flopping as you do. The magazine hasn’t been canceled as I see it, just moved into the new age of communication via internet. Many magazines are going strictly internet due to expenses. It is logical. Now having said that, the web site needs fixing too, but I guess what concerns me is that these things needing to be fixed will get fixed if given time and support. I’ll leave it at that Warbow…


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Rick McKinney said:


> My apologizes if I hit a sore spot. I guess I see it as complaining about the person in charge.


Not a sore spot. I think you make a valid point. There's "say nothing," and there's "just whining," and hopefully the bulk of this thread lands somewhere in-between.




Rick McKinney said:


> After all, it is her responsibility to make every effort to fix a lot of things within the organization.


Your explanations, context and clearly laid out reasons for supporting Denise Parker have been great, and a much needed counter balance to the usual feelings of disenfranchisement that can fester when only outsiders are part of the conversation.



Rick McKinney said:


> However, when I read people saying they are going to drop their membership because they are not getting a magazine I find that whining.


Hard to say. I think what people are referring to is the value proposition. Not all NAA members are fully invested in the NAA. They have other organizations that they can be members of (and often currently are members of) and other archery opportunities, so the issues with the mandatory magazine subscription raising membership costs affected the cost benefit ratio for some members, to then cancel that printed magazine, but possibly keep the increased membership cost that was initially justified by the mandatory subscription is, perhaps, just enough to tip the value proposition over for some members. Saying so could be called whining, or it could be someone just expressing the truth, that the cost of membership just isn't worth it to them anymore, and the magazine issue is just something that brought that fact sufficiently to the forefront for them to take action on that front.




Rick McKinney said:


> The magazine hasn’t been canceled as I see it, just moved into the new age of communication via internet. Many magazines are going strictly internet due to expenses. It is logical.


I fully agree. I think the issue isn't so much about the print issue being retired but the cost issue, where the membership cost was increased for mandatory subscriptions to the print edition. That caused grumbling, but people received a tangible item that at least gave them the impression that they got something for their money. As to the on-line edition, people are used to many on-line resources being free (whether it is reasonable to expect that or not) so may not percieve the same value for their money for the online edition. The subjective impression to some is Bait and Switch--even if that was not the intention of management and even if the cancellation of the print edition is a reasonable and fiscally necessary. As with so many of these issues, communication can help to diffuse these matters, and your knowledgeable input aids that effort.

As to becoming modern, I expect that the magazine will be issued as a PDF. A handy format for many purposes, including on line distribution of magazines, but usually for easy and cost-effective electronic dissemination of material already laid out and created for print. If no printed version is to be created, the on line magazine should be created as HTML, not PDF, because to be truely web friendly the magzine needs to be, well, _web_ pages.



Rick McKinney said:


> Now having said that, the web site needs fixing too, but I guess what concerns me is that these things needing to be fixed will get fixed if given time and support. I’ll leave it at that Warbow…


I look forward to future changes. The fact that you are encouraged is, in itself, encouraging.


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## gonehuntin (Dec 2, 2004)

Rick McKinney said:


> My apologizes if I hit a sore spot. I guess I see it as complaining about the person in charge. After all, it is her responsibility to make every effort to fix a lot of things within the organization. However, when I read people saying they are going to drop their membership because they are not getting a magazine I find that whining. Or am I presuming it was just in jest? Or they want to have their hand held? Or something else I am not aware of? I don’t see the flip flopping as you do. The magazine hasn’t been canceled as I see it, just moved into the new age of communication via internet. Many magazines are going strictly internet due to expenses. It is logical. Now having said that, the web site needs fixing too, but I guess what concerns me is that these things needing to be fixed will get fixed if given time and support. I’ll leave it at that Warbow…


I don't know Rick.. it is a sticky wicket to be sure... 

I think that what I hear is a whole lot of frustration, and seemingly no where to put it... I can't really blame anyone for feeling distrustful. Sometimes I do to.....they aren't complaining at the current people in charge so much as they are just complaining.... rightfully so, in my opinion.

It's too bad, as I know that the new guys at USAA are really committed to improving the situtation for all of us.. from all of the NAA members, to the volunteer instructors, part time instrctors, program coaches... on up to the elite and wanna be elite coaches. 

And I know that many people are hovering around, watching, not saying anything, listening, and forming opinions based on what they see here..... maybe not seeing the whole picture as it is today, so... if we stay postitive... and we keep at it.. hopefully , in time, they will feel comfortable in voicing an idea or opinion as well.

I think to some degree we are entitled to vent.. but, I agree with you that we need to move on...thankfully, the old ways are gone... THANK GOODNESS!

Just gotta be patient, keep putting one foot in front of the other, moving in a forward direction.. what else have we got?

Hang in there, dude! It's gonna get good real soon!


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Mr. McKinney,

I wasn't whining, I was publicly expressing the questions I will have to decide when it's time to renew my membership. I'm not now and never will be a serious target shooter. I shoot barebow recurve and my real interest is field (FITA & NFAA). I liked getting the magazine. I'd rather set down and read at my leisure than stare at a computer screen.

The magazine was about all I got out of my NAA membership. Sure haven't been impressed by the organization but I thought I was supporting archery too. Sorry a big important person like you doesn't approve of a nobody like me expressing an opinion.

Dave


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## Mr. Black Magic (Sep 13, 2007)

gonehuntin said:


> Wanna pm me and give me some suggestions? Or you could offer suggestions right here online.. you choose, everyone will be appreciative, either way, I assure you.
> 
> Thanks.
> Ginger


Find yourselfs an expert in this platform http://drupal.org/

Listen to what they have to tell you, and USE IT.


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

gonehuntin said:


> Wanna pm me and give me some suggestions? Or you could offer suggestions right here online.. you choose, everyone will be appreciative, either way, I assure you.


You've had some good suggestions. From Warbow and Mr. Black Magic. I disagree about Drupal as Mr. B-M suggests getting an expert in Drupal which might be required. Drupal being an awesome pieces of software that requires some expertise, as Warbow identified the social networking platform must fit the work flow of the organization. 

To answer one bit of criticism. I am not whining, I am criticizing and critiquing an organization that charges me dues. An organization that has made fundamental changes in the services for fees without notice or through a corrupted representative system of elections. 

Our new leadership has experience in selling. The website is horrible, the loss of the print magazine is more than just transition of the materials. It is a loss of income too, or more importantly a vehicle for income. Now in the print magazine industry the cost of ink, paper, and postage has been hurting even the best magazines. If it is going to transition to online it should be using some type of content management system (CMS). That system should be tied into the over all goals of the organization. 

I don't know Denise, or many of the different entities, I have read her book and people who are highly respected by me like her. From what I can tell though the NAA is not interested in pushing a deep web 2.X project.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Selil said:


> . From what I can tell though the NAA is not interested in pushing a deep web 2.X project.


Slightly OT:

That may be a good thing. I recall NADA's ridiculous "build it and they will come" attempt at web 2.0, with all flash-based 3-D virtual world graphic point and click interface, with graphic 3-D rooms of the "virtual training center" in the self-aggrandizingly named "World Archery Center" (featuring and elaborate imaginary 3d exterior facade) er, and nooooo content to speak of, or actual user interaction like any open forums (that I can remember). IIRC, a number of links went to pages that still had template place holder text on them.

So, NADA, apparently, just figured if they built a lavishly fancy _looking_ website that users would generate all the content they needed, including archery instruction videos--never bothering to examine whether that is the kind of web 2.0 content that could and would be generated by users in a quantity and quality conducive to their needs. All they had to do was check You Tube for FITA Recurve archery instruction, and look at the rate of posts on the most popular FITA boards and extrapolate **down** to the much smaller set of archers who are certified coaches to see how unlikely that was. Anyway, they spend thousands and thousands of the Easton Sports Development Foundation's money to create that boondoggle, which they have since taken down and used a few scraps of the graphics for their current website.

Of course, NADA isn't the NAA, nor am I trying to say that it is. But, I am pointing out that a web 2.0 project needs to be carefully created with realistic goals in mind, and that one must use carefully reasoned and researched methods to achieve those goals. What tripped NADA up, IMO, was they started with a grand idea, but set themselves up for certain failure when they mistook form for function, and built looks over content. Content is king on the web, and the interface needs to let the user find that content as easily as possible. Nobody goes to a website day after day because it looks fancy or has a 3D virtual world graphic interface (*cough*notscreenreadercompatible*cough*), they go for the content.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Rick McKinney said:


> Ummm….are we going to shoot the new management because of the old management’s poor excuse of a magazine or website? Denise was editor of Archery Focus Magazine for a period of time before she moved on to do more marketing and publishing in other fields. I am sure she knows that the site is not high quality or even substandard, but I really hope we don’t tar and feather her before she gets a chance to fix a lot of problems. After all, we have been getting more updates and communication from her since November than the past four CEO’s did in the last 10 years combined. She didn’t develop the web site, she just inherited it. Nor was she involved with the financial mess she has to deal with right now. I am sure she can and will fix a lot of things in due time.
> 
> Do you people know the monumental task given to our Interim CEO and new board? The organization is a mess and she has offered to take on the task of fixing a huge amount of mistakes that have been made for years. Give them time and I bet they will fix most of the problems. However, it is good for you to vent, just don’t shoot anyone! ukey: Give her the constructive criticism she needs so she knows she is heading in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Whining!? So, we should all just quietly pen our check for $50.00 to the NAA every year and be happy and shut up? I don't think anyone said ANYTHING bad about Denise. She's been handed a load of crap by years of poor management. I wish her the best of luck. That doesn't mean I should continue to pen a check to the NAA every year for little or no perceived value. I've already re-upped for 2009 so I'm good for now. We'll see what the next year brings.


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## Mr. October (Feb 15, 2003)

Archerycat said:


> USArchery.org should take a good look at USASwimming.org website.
> 
> Great information for Swimmers, Parents coaches and spectators.
> 
> ...


No . . our sport is NOT dying. Remember that Olympic/NAA archery is a tiny little segment of archery here in the US and other forms of archery are growing by leaps and bounds in other countries. Unfortunately, the Olympics is rapidly becoming the showcase of popular extreme sports and subjective talent contests. It will be interesting to see if any of the original sports survive over time. Regardless of whether there is archery in the Olympics, archery will move on. It's been around since long before anyone thought of Olympic games.


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

Warbow said:


> That may be a good thing. I recall NADA's ridiculous "build it and they will come" attempt at web 2.0, with all flash-based 3-D virtual world graphic point and click interface, with graphic 3-D rooms of the "virtual training center" in the self-aggrandizingly named "World Archery Center" (featuring and elaborate imaginary 3d exterior facade) er, and nooooo content to speak of, or actual user interaction like any open forums (that I can remember). IIRC, a number of links went to pages that still had template place holder text on them.


Not off topic at all. The fact is that Web 2.0 is about community and not technology. In a lot of cases people who make money off this stuff will tell you to spend big bucks and what you get is a boondoggle. Since it really is about the people and not the computers figuring out which technologies help the people is the goal. That means understanding the user base and the content creator team. The best and most accomplished websites/web 2.0 systems exist where the content is created by the users and facilitated by the technology (youtube, archerytalk, digg, etc...).

All of the tools I've suggested or would suggest are free as in "free beer" type free. If the monthly run rate on the technology starts to increase due to bandwidth then you have a success. Flat rate on what is being provided now is likely actually higher since they use .pdfs.


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## Mr. Black Magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Warbow said:


> Slightly OT:
> 
> That may be a good thing. I recall NADA's ridiculous "build it and they will come" attempt at web 2.0, with all flash-based 3-D virtual world graphic point and click interface, with graphic 3-D rooms of the "virtual training center" in the self-aggrandizingly named "World Archery Center" (featuring and elaborate imaginary 3d exterior facade) er, and nooooo content to speak of, or actual user interaction like any open forums (that I can remember). IIRC, a number of links went to pages that still had template place holder text on them.
> 
> ...


Extremely well put. There are a lot of Marketing driven (drivel) web content producers who are going to Flash video your company into the Fortune 500 by virtue of their awesome web graphics. Problem is the web isn't actualy YOUR product or service.

If you have a chance look at the Cervelo bicycle sight. There is a quote on there apologizing for the lack of GEE WHIZ webnology which states. "We figured you'd rather have a web site done by engineers than a bicycle built by marketing people" I quite like that:


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

I thought web 2.0 was a bunch of tech talk until I read, “The fact is that Web 2.0 is about community and not technology.”

A Google search found this Wikipedia description: “The term "Web 2.0" describes the changing trends in the use of World Wide Web technology and web design that aim to enhance creativity, communications, secure information sharing, collaboration and functionality of the web….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2.0

So even if the USOC archery WebPages are more contemporary looking, http://archery.usoc.org/ there will need be an informed and dedicated effort to determine how best to communicate with the diverse target archery community and the public in general.


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## Landed in AZ (May 11, 2008)

archeryal said:


> Actually, the magazine is not entirely eliminated - if you read the 2nd line, you'll find it will be available online. I assume members will get a log-in. However, I agree with most of you criticisms. If I want info, I use the Texas site or our state organization's site.
> 
> We've been poorly served, to say the least - not to mention of the funds embezzled by an employee and the botched election and the online tournament registration contract (approved by whom, exactly?).
> 
> ...


I understood what you meant but for those that are new to archery they may not understand that the USA Archery Magazine at one time was called ArcheryFocus. As a point of clarification...they are two separate magazines now and ArcheryFocus is not what USA Archery is referring to in this notice.


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## Mr. Black Magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Serious Fun said:


> I thought web 2.0 was a bunch of tech talk until I read, “The fact is that Web 2.0 is about community and not technology.”
> 
> A Google search found this Wikipedia description: “The term "Web 2.0" describes the changing trends in the use of World Wide Web technology and web design that aim to enhance creativity, communications, secure information sharing, collaboration and functionality of the web….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2.0
> 
> So even if the USOC archery WebPages are more contemporary looking, http://archery.usoc.org/ there will need be an informed and dedicated effort to determine how best to communicate with the diverse target archery community and the public in general.


Well in the ideal world the Web initiative would serve as more of an accuracy checked repository (Wikipedia has some current issues there:wink. This would allow the actual content to be developed/driven by the users themselves. Think of the Texas Archery site, only expanded to a national level with input generated by the awesome human resources scattered around the country. As Selil mentioned it's all about content MANAGEMENT.


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

Landed in AZ said:


> I understood what you meant but for those that are new to archery they may not understand that the USA Archery Magazine at one time was called ArcheryFocus. As a point of clarification...they are two separate magazines now and ArcheryFocus is not what USA Archery is referring to in this notice.


Archery Focus went out of business because of lack of support. Subscriptions fell to below minimum profit levels......


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## LoveMyHoyt (Nov 29, 2008)

I joined NAA in time to get the last couple issues of Nock Nock - the magazine that USA Archery replaced. I have the March/April/May 2003 issue in front of me and it was put out by the NAA. It also has under the title "The Official Publication of USA Archery". I believe that was the last issue of Nock Nock. It was also all black and white - no color.
I'm not sure what organization published Archery Focus (or even if there was one-NADA perhaps??). I remember getting it for a while and then asked to subscribe to it. I really enjoy AF - but not as much now that it is only available on line. 
Angie


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Mr. Black Magic said:


> Well in the ideal world the Web initiative would serve as more of an accuracy checked repository (Wikipedia has some current issues there:wink. This would allow the actual content to be developed/driven by the users themselves. Think of the Texas Archery site, only expanded to a national level with input generated by the awesome human resources scattered around the country. As Selil mentioned it's all about content MANAGEMENT.


I'm wary of expecting much user created, fact checked content. Wikipedia is amazing, it is something that just seems like it shouldn't work but it does; however, that success hasn't necessarily translated to other smaller communities, more controversial or areas of subjective expertise, where consensus is difficult. I think some novice FAQ's, for instance, could be put together using community collaboration, where there is some general agreement (light bow, 25" riser and medium limbs for average men, etc.) but there are also plenty of areas of disagreement, disagreement being a part of what keeps this forum going. So, by all means, experiment with web 2.0 content, I know enough that I thought many of today's successful web enterprises would fail, and I was wrong, but if USA Archery does enable community generated content they should be careful not to bet the farm on it, the way NADA disastrously did.

Another thing is that _text_ lends itself to collaborative content creatin and editing, but instructional videos do not. You can't really improve the exemplars once they are captured on tape. A video usually requires some talent on screen, whether the person serving as an example or the instructor, who might be both. *Actual* experts with an interest in making free vids at their own expense are somewhat rare. You need only search You Tube to find that out. There are a number of ok instructional vids there, but none that blow me away, which is not surprising since if they were that good the producers might just sell them. But if you are a great coach or if you can convince one to volunteer, maybe some cool stuff will get made.

One issue that comes to mind, though, is "endorsement." I think many orgs are reluctant to host community content on their site because they don't want to be seen as responsible for the content of the material or necessarily endorsing it since the quality can be highly variable. As a National Governing Body, I wonder if that would be a consern to USArchery.org?

BTW, is there a wiki for instructional stuff? I know there is the how to site "Instructables," but I'm not sure about wikis. You'll note that Instructables are very photo heavy--visual examples with text descriptions. That is another thing that wikis don't necessarily do well, create complex photo illustrations. But, I could be wrong. Are there good examples of well illustrated how to wikis? The reason I ask is that one can't expect the USA Archery site to be magically more successful at web 2.0 than anyone else, so I'm wondering about realistic examples of what does work and is happening right now.


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## Mr. Black Magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Warbow said:


> I'm wary of expecting much user created, fact checked content. Wikipedia is amazing, it is something that just seems like it shouldn't work but it does; however, that success hasn't necessarily translated to other smaller communities, more controversial or areas of subjective expertise, where consensus is difficult. I think some novice FAQ's, for instance, could be put together using community collaboration, where there is some general agreement (light bow, 25" riser and medium limbs for average men, etc.) but there are also plenty of areas of disagreement, disagreement being a part of what keeps this forum going. So, by all means, experiment with web 2.0 content, I know enough that I thought many of today's successful web enterprises would fail, and I was wrong, but if USA Archery does enable community generated content they should be careful not to bet the farm on it, the way NADA disastrously did.
> 
> Another thing is that _text_ lends itself to collaborative content creatin and editing, but instructional videos do not. You can't really improve the exemplars once they are captured on tape. A video usually requires some talent on screen, whether the person serving as an example or the instructor, who might be both. *Actual* experts with an interest in making free vids at their own expense are somewhat rare. You need only search You Tube to find that out. There are a number of ok instructional vids there, but none that blow me away, which is not surprising since if they were that good the producers might just sell them. But if you are a great coach or if you can convince one to volunteer, maybe some cool stuff will get made.
> 
> ...


Pop over to the Arizona site. http://azarcheryvideo.com/index.php?post_category=starting%20out

A decent type of start. There are graphic heavy wikis but they seem to be more popular in the educational world. Yale has an entire section dedicated to creating on line instruction. Problem here is not the ability to create the content or the type of content it is assigning people to manage it properly and fact check it. No one want's to take on that challenge and that kills the issue in most cases.

PS have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2iv_E-Fn9E

Pity so few are actually using annotated video.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Mr. Black Magic said:


> Problem here is not the ability to create the content or the type of content it is assigning people to manage it properly and fact check it. No one want's to take on that challenge and that kills the issue in most cases.


Thanks for the good examples.

The AZ video was interesting, and it is great to see people putting together useful videos. I don't think production values are necessarily of vital importance, but I would have liked the video to explain things more or identify them more clearly. The narrator notes that bows consist of risers and limbs, but doesn't actually say what that means until later. And she mentions that Non-ILF risers can be tuned? And use plungers? What does that mean? (Ok, I know what that means, but as a video for non-shooting parents, one needs to be careful about including technical terms if they are not going to be explained.) Anyway, I mention these issues not so much to criticize the video but to note that user made videos may not be what USA Archery will want people finding when they steer to USA Archery looking for info--but, of course, since there is nothing right now it would be an improvement. (Denise Parker, though, has said she is eager to fix the website. But, there are many issues at hand, so it won't be an instant process.)

I'm not sure when something ceases being "Web 2.0" and becomes just an ordinary group project, where some of the organizing is communicated via the internet.

What kinds of material are missing from the public sphere?

Right now there are a number of standard free resources on the net that are popular.

Tuning for Tens.

The Elliot Guide / Reference Guide for Archers

The Easton Tuning Guide

Others include

FITA Coaching Manual Level 1

FITA Field Archery Guidelines (Includes all sorts of stuff on how to shoot FITA Field and estimate distances)

Archery Austraila's Coaching Manual

--what resources might USA Archery members create? 

I'm guessing mostly beginning stuff, since most people are seeking higher knowledge rather than dispensing it, so the number of people who could create higher level materials is limited--but I'm just guessing...


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## Mr. Black Magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Warbow said:


> Thanks for the good examples.
> 
> The AZ video was interesting, and it is great to see people putting together useful videos. I don't think production values are necessarily of vital importance, but I would have liked the video to explain things more or identify them more clearly. The narrator notes that bows consist of risers and limbs, but doesn't actually say what that means until later. And she mentions that Non-ILF risers can be tuned? And use plungers? What does that mean? (Ok, I know what that means, but as a video for non-shooting parents, one needs to be careful about including technical terms if they are not going to be explained.) Anyway, I mention these issues not so much to criticize the video but to note that user made videos may not be what USA Archery will want people finding when they steer to USA Archery looking for info--but, of course, since there is nothing right now it would be an improvement. (Denise Parker, though, has said she is eager to fix the website. But, there are many issues at hand, so it won't be an instant process.)
> 
> ...


 Thats why I gave the link to the annotated video. If you are mentioning a plunger you can have a mouse over to give a little blurb about it.

As for Web 2.0 lets not all get tied up in a name. My suspicion is that what eventually happens will be more of a user generated response to actual need than compliance to an "industry standard" what the computer industry has failed to grasp is that the web is now in the hands of the users themselves, and that they are not particularly interested in constraints imposed by the geeks:wink: There is more than a little "web anarchy" afoot right now, and to be honest that warms my heart:


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Mr. Black Magic said:


> As for Web 2.0 lets not all get tied up in a name.


Good point. 

I think my question was more about when is collaborative work on the web "different" or especially enabled by the web. When you said


> "Problem here is not the ability to create the content or the type of content it is assigning people to manage it properly and fact check it. No one want's to take on that challenge and that kills the issue in most cases."


That sounded just like the same kind of dysfunctional group efforts we've been doing before the web. Wikipedia, for example, really is different. There is no group organizer. People just come in and work on it.

So, while we can hope that people will get together and create videos and post them on an new NAA site, the NAA site would just be a place to host them, rather than some clever way to create them collaboratively. And, at the moment, people tend to post videos on their own sites, or on video hosting sites. Turning the NAA into the Go to place for collaboration would be tough, especially since sites like AT, with 100,000 or so members, are out there competing for the same audience.

http://www.archerytalkblog.com/?cat=9

Looks like there are some decent articles...
So I guess it can work 

But, NAA staff is very, very small. I'm not sure they could manage a site with a lot of user interaction...or if their limited subset of archery could get enough people on-line at their site to get a vibrant community going. Official sites tend to be heavy handed about modding...

(I'm not, BTW, trying to shoot ideas down, but I am trying to feel out what may or may not be realistic.)


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## Mr. Black Magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Warbow said:


> Good point.
> 
> I think my question was more about when is collaborative work on the web "different" or especially enabled by the web. When you saidThat sounded just like the same kind of dysfunctional group efforts we've been doing before the web. Wikipedia, for example, really is different. There is no group organizer. People just come in and work on it.
> 
> ...


In the ideal world content would be manages insofar as it would be tagged and indexed via the CMS so that a search on plunger would return results such as : definition of, schematic diagram, vendor links, user reviews, annotated video examples (I'm just a little stuck on that one as I see so many apps for it:wink. Thats where the staff get itchy feet as it is really a toughie. AT when it implemented tags took a step forward, until you get users tagging with every common hit phrase al la ebay where you now see adds for stuff like bushnell binos tagged "not Swarovski, Zeiss, Leica" Sorry for the wandering subject matter there.

Just for arguments sake there is also a benefit to bad content where it is in the public eye and open to peer review. Bad form such as that which induces forearm slap or left or right biased groups can be of great help to those diagnosing issues. Good reviews of bad products generally result in a closer scrutiny of the products mentioned which lead to a premature exposure of flaws (take heed paid to posters).


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

Here are some basic requirements for the website to think about.

1) It needs to be accessible by an browser or operating system.
2) It should be manageable through a web browser completely.
3) There is not technical staff to back up the users so it has to be simple, there is no development budget nor should there be.
4) The solution should be a data store of some type so it can have accessible content in various ways.
5) The solution should integrate with current vendors for different services (clothing, membership, others).
6) There are various regulations, rules, contracts, controls, and mechanisms controlling any organization that is involved with USOC. Still digging on that one.
7) Follow links on the website and cost the service they are currently using. Oh my.
8) Any solution should integrate with the office processes or it will be a no-go.
9) Many others.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Selil said:


> Here are some basic requirements for the website to think about.
> 
> 1) It needs to be accessible by an browser or operating system.
> 2) It should be manageable through a web browser completely.
> ...


I did that a few days ago...sigh...the vendor's system doesn't seem to scale well...

But, it seems like the task of creating updated content once a new system is implemented is the most trivial of the issues about the website. Creating an integrated back end that works with the NAA's current database system and all of their vendor's systems is something I would normally expect to require some expensive development, not to mention the issues and cost involved in satisfying specialized multivariate compliance issues...

I'm not a database developer, but I get the impression that, um, the criteria are quite a challenge...


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

Warbow said:


> I'm not a database developer, but I get the impression that, um, the criteria are quite a challenge...


I have several database developers at my fingertips (quite talented ones at that), and this is a big sticking point. I'm puzzling it out. A database driven system of content and tools would solve so many problems. This problem needs more Scotch.


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## Mr. Black Magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Selil said:


> Here are some basic requirements for the website to think about.
> 
> 1) It needs to be accessible by an browser or operating system.
> 2) It should be manageable through a web browser completely.
> ...


"Sigh" If only OpenBlueLab actually worked, you'd be halfway there already:wink:


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## blue_ridge (Mar 20, 2008)

Well, if anyone is interested in perspective from a newbie, non-member looking in from the outside, I am 39 and never competed despite hunting and target shooting with a recurve since I was 17. A friend of mine took the leap a year ago and shot a FITA Indoor match in Men's Recurve. So, I started to take an interest and branch out from the comfort zone of backyard shooting and hunting to learn more. In the past year, I have learned quite a bit about improving my form, bought a second hand target riser and limbs, sight, stab etc. Not knowing exactly how to get started or where to compete, I went to the USarchery website and had a very hard time understanding when/where events are held, exactly what the rules are for those events, where I might learn more about target shooting in my area, etc. 

I stumbled upon a website for the Bull Run Shooting Center, doing various google searches for Archery in Virginia. I called them to see if they might have classes or events I could attend. The person I spoke with wasn't very encouraging but promised to call me back to let me know when I could go there for some instruction. Never heard from them again. No big deal, it would be a 3 hour round trip for me to go there anyway, but I don't know of any other place closer in Virginia to try my hand at this.

Since then, I've taken an interest in FITA Field, Barebow but cannot determine if there are any of those events even held in the USA. YouTube's ArcheryTV is nice (who runs that?) 

Bottom line is, I am an engineer and fairly proficient at learning things on my own. But I can honestly say, from my perspective, that NAA has not provided much direction or inspiration to me. Maybe if I was 13 years old and lived near an Archery Center like Bull Run, they would take an interest in me as a prospective olympian? 

Otherwise, I have gleaned all the information from helpful people on various talk forums. There seems to be a sharp division between NAA, NFAA and IBO and it's a shame. I've learned there is a lot to like about shooting target recurve, even though it has mostly been self-taught. As an engineer, I have revamped a few processes for my company by looking at the total flow of information like an outsider. I think the NAA would be well served if they had someone do this. First define everything the NAA wants to offer and accomplish to members and prospective members. Then have people from various experience levels and backgrounds (Olympic level archer, coach, newbie parent, newbie student, NFAA competitor etc.) report what their experiences were when they tried to indoctrinate to the sport using the website, printed materials and any other available media.


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## JDT_Dad (Nov 5, 2008)

blue_ridge said:


> I stumbled upon a website for the Bull Run Shooting Center, doing various google searches for Archery in Virginia. I called them to see if they might have classes or events I could attend. The person I spoke with wasn't very encouraging but promised to call me back to let me know when I could go there for some instruction. Never heard from them again. No big deal, it would be a 3 hour round trip for me to go there anyway, but I don't know of any other place closer in Virginia to try my hand at this.


If you are serious about learning Olympic recurve archery, you should try the Bull Run Shooting Center again. The archery program at the center is first rate and is home to Olympian Ruth Rowe who teaches full time at the range. Ruth is a well known level 4 coach and has produced many fine archers. You wouldn't be the only one to drive 3 hours to visit Ruth Rowe. If you like, send me a pm and I can put you in touch with her. 

I must admit, the NAA doesn't make it easy for beginners.


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## Steve Ruis (Oct 4, 2002)

*Archery Focus Lives!*

This is a little late, but I find it necessary to correct some misunderstandings. Archery Focus magazine was created as an independent magazine in 1997 by Rick McKinney and Yoshi Komatsu. Denise Parker was it's second editor. Rick talked the NAA into adopting AF as it's "official magazine" because all they had at the time was "Nock-Nock." So, NAA members got AF and the NAA got six pages of the magazine for their content. Archery Focus has always been (and still is) an independednt magazine focused on archery education (helping archers and coaches to get better at what they do).

In mid-2008, Archery Focus went online only as there weren't enough print subscribers to make (or rather to stop losing) money on that edition. The web edition is more popular and is distributed here and in 48 other countries (saves a great deal on postage).

Archery Focus lives ... on the web. We are committed to keeping it going.

USA Archery magazine was created in 2002 to help deal with the NAA's financial shortage's and to improve its image. The idea was that selling advertisements could offset much of the costs of producing the magazine. It's fututre is currently under review by Denise and the USA Archery Board.

And I must add that the question "What do I get for my $50?" is an apt one, but the answer shouldn't involve a magazine. What you get from any archery organization (USAA, NFAA, IBO, NADA, ASA, etc.) for the money is access to events (or at least not having to pay guest fees), rules, promotion of the sport, record keeping (WRs, etc.). There are legitimate discussions about whether the work the organizations do are worth the fees, but I would rather work with the ones we have, because if they go belly up, we will just have to create new ones. (Can you imagine what "pick-up" archery tournaments would be like? I would guess, 6.3 hours of deciding the rules and 23 minutes of actual shooting.:smile

Steve Ruis, Editor #3
Archery Focus magazine


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## TxMom (Feb 23, 2009)

*Convoluted*

Speaking as a parent of an archer, my daughter has been shooting for a year, every single archery website we have been to for our state, NAA or NFAA has been a huge disappointment.

The act of having to check the websites constantly and search for changed dates, times, even states is insane. Plus there are just lists of events, it would be nice if you could link the calendar to one in your outlook and just get updates as they happen…or at least an email through a login.

I also agree with another poster about there being no clear information about getting started in this sport. Though honestly even in the area we live in there is little information offered in the various ranges we have visited. How do you grow a sport if it’s a well guarded secret???

On top of that getting to any accurate information concerning rules is just impossible.

As I understand from the posts here there have been some issues with past management of various associations. 

I have no doubt there is someone out or a group of someone’s out there willing to volunteer time to re-vamp the website and bring it into this century. I don’t think the association is taking the opportunity to leverage its very diverse membership.

I think that many of us would be willing to volunteer our time and services to bring the sport into a more public eye, which would also afford more money and sponsorships. But there doesn’t seem to be an outlet for that.

Just my 2 cents.


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## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

*Too Many*

Too many organizations, too many clubs, affiliations, classes, subclasses, world, regional, state, and others makes me boggle at what to join, what I am supporting or how it really helps the sport. Maybe we should look to other sports for some help..(golf seems to be doing very well) hummm......just a crazy thought. Gar.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

TxMom said:


> Speaking as a parent of an archer, my daughter has been shooting for a year, every single archery website we have been to for our state, NAA or NFAA has been a huge disappointment.
> 
> The act of having to check the websites constantly and search for changed dates, times, even states is insane. Plus there are just lists of events, it would be nice if you could link the calendar to one in your outlook and just get updates as they happen…or at least an email through a login.
> 
> ...


In just a few short month, the USAA CEO led the association forward with a plan that addresses some of your observations and insights. Most importantly funds have been secured from those that also support the effort.
http://usarchery.org/news/article/10371


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

Congratulations to Denise Parker, now will they make her the full time CEO? As to website development I have a pretty large web development team (around 25 top developers) that might be available in the fall. This spring they are way to busy on a monster project. I talked to Denise about web stuff, but got swamped by MY current project. Sorry Ms. Parker call if you want to talk! We only work for free so you can imagine what comes across our desks.


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

TxMom said:


> Speaking as a parent of an archer, my daughter has been shooting for a year, every single archery website we have been to for our state, NAA or NFAA has been a huge disappointment.........Just my 2 cents.


What would you have on the TSAA website that is not there?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I must admit, the NAA doesn't make it easy for beginners.


Not to pick on you, but this comment is an example of the times we live in - I guess... Here's a little "tough love" :

It seems so much more convenient these days to blame "The NAA" or "the government" than to actually take responsibility for oneself. 

"The NAA" has it's hands full at the moment. What ever happened in this country to personal responsibility? There are loads of resources at your fingertips here, at the NAA website and at many other archery-related sites. Incredible amounts of information are sitting there on-line, available FOR FREE because of incredibly hard working volunteers like RonC and so many others. USE IT! 

My advice: get off your duff, do your homework and get after it. And stop expecting someone else to make things "easy" for you...

Worked for me.

If you're going to make excuses at this level of the game (starting out), then imagine what you'd be willing to do when the wind starts to blow at 70 meters at a national event! 

Sorry... Rant off :tongue:

John.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Selil said:


> Congratulations to Denise Parker, now will they make her the full time CEO? As to website development I have a pretty large web development team (around 25 top developers) that might be available in the fall. This spring they are way to busy on a monster project. I talked to Denise about web stuff, but got swamped by MY current project. Sorry Ms. Parker call if you want to talk! We only work for free so you can imagine what comes across our desks.


Denise has been elected as full time CEO. It was just announced a few days ago. And she discovered that she could leverage the existing USOC web infrastructure and expand it into a full USA Archery site rather than be just the Team USA Archery site, so it seems like she's already got that under control, though she may still have need of additional support given how small the staff of USA Archery is.



limbwalker said:


> Not to pick on you, but this comment is an example of the times we live in - I guess... Here's a little "tough love" :
> 
> It seems so much more convenient these days to blame "The NAA" or "the government" than to actually take responsibility for oneself.
> 
> "The NAA" has it's hands full at the moment...


I can see your point John, from a competitor's stand point, that aggressive competitors should not be swayed by little things such as the lack of a single page of instructional information on the NAA website or easy ways to get into FITA Recursive. But the NAA is fighting an uphill battle. Recurve and target archery are just not as popular in the US as they are in other countries. Meanwhile, other organizations such as IBO, ASA and even the NFAA are recruiting competitive archers to their organizations at a rat that well exceeds that of the NAA. The National Archery in the Schools program, which uses Genisis compounds shot with fingers, 3 under, has a million participants a year with a national championship turnout expected be around 4,000 participants and 4,000 spectator. The NASP has been aggressively making things happen, making their program efficient and easy for schools to adopt, easy to participate in, **reducing** barriers to entry. NASP utterly dwarfs JOAD in terms of participation, market penetration and organization. Granted, NASP and JOAD are different things, but it is an example that outreach **matters** and you aren't going to improve the state of target archery by telling people they are big babies for pointing out the indisputable fact that getting into FITA recurve is not something the NAA has much, if any, help for on its website.

The NAA needs to market, to lower barriers to entry, to recruit not chastise people who point out that the NAA has high barriers to entry. And keep in mind that those barriers don't just keep adults away, it keeps kids away because they don't know about the NAA or JOAD, and if you make it difficult for the **parents** then the kids won't get to participate.

Fortunately, Denise Parker knows all that, and she's been elected full-time CEO, so the org. should see improvements that will benefit high end-competitive archers such as yourself as well as people new to FITA Recurve.


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## JDT_Dad (Nov 5, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Not to pick on you, but this comment is an example of the times we live in - I guess... Here's a little "tough love" :
> 
> It seems so much more convenient these days to blame "The NAA" or "the government" than to actually take responsibility for oneself.
> 
> ...


I would suggest you find out more about me before you proceed to give me a little "tough love". I have seen problems within the NAA and am volunteering my time to help fix them. So I am not "sitting on my duff expecting some else to make things easy for me".

That said, I think your statement is generally true. We have too many people who are quick to criticize the NAA and not enough people volunteering to help out.

Dave Gilbert


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

TexARC said:


> What would you have on the TSAA website that is not there?


TexARC is a great resource. Content is more important than looks and I often note that nobody keeps coming back to a site because it looks pretty, they come for useful content. But, TexARC stretches my theory just a bit. I can still find the content I want (yea TinyTargets!) but TexARC could use a little sprucing up.


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