# Anyone shooting without draw stops?



## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

Well, last night I decided to take the plunge and move the draw stops on my Oneida Aeroforce just a smidge forward. After shooting the past six weeks to eight weeks and suffering miserably through target panic, I decided to experiment with this ol' bow and see if I could change things and get a better feel. I marked the draw stops current position with some electrical tape and moved them a little more than a quarter of an inch forward, eye-balled them to make sure they were close to one another, and then proceeded to nock an arrow and draw. It felt as though I had knocked 3" off of my draw length so I went ahead and loosed into the target. I probably could have tossed the arrow faster! Smiling, I headed towards the bedroom to make another minor adjustment. Upon drawing and loosing the draw length still felt a bit too short. I decided for *****'s and giggle's I would move the draw stops completely out of the way to allow a soft, or, non existent wall. JeffPaHunter and I had talked about this, though, I was too hesitant to try it. I walked back into the other room and drew back the bow.

I anchored where I normally would, aimed and proceeded to loose into the target. Boy that felt good! After a dozen or so more shots, I couldn't believe it. It felt so comfortable, so natural. It sort of felt the opposite of a recurve, like I was gradually drawing and holding less weight. I am now convinced that this is the way to go. The only thing I may consider is getting the 50% let off so when it rolls back slightly past 28" it's still of a consistently low let off. 

It really works nicely for me, and I actually feel like the target panic is STOPPING and the confidence is STARTING! Archery is actually becoming fun again! 

Are there any other finger shooter's out there who have or currently are shooting their bows without draw stops?

Nathan E. James


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I've only shot that way for about an eon....But I use a clicker.


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## GuyWithBow (Feb 21, 2007)

Me too... It is a sweet bow that you tend to over draw. I also put in cam modules that I thought were too short and shot well. Personally, I like shooting it out of the valley. Bare bow... is all about feel anyway.


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

I used to shoot that way with my old H250, but I found that I needed a clicker.


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

Forgive me for my ignorance, but, you set a clicker up so that once you've drawn so far it clicks, correct? Does it click as soon as your draw length is reached or shortly there after or...

I think I like this because I draw and my hand immediately anchors where it ought to on my face. Before, I would draw then have to bend my left arm (bow arm) more to anchor.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

The clicker is set up so that when you reach the point that you are in line, and have your back tension where you want it, it clicks and you shoot. I always set my draw a little long so I'm not against the stops when it clicks. For me, this is a way to control target panic. Had it since 1979 or so. Also will put some discipline into your shooting....


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

I prefer finger shooting bows without a draw stop as it just does not feel as comfortable to me. 

My Connie shoots well of the fingers although I shoot it with a release. I did shoot a Pro 40 with a draw stop for a couple of years and it just never felt right at full draw as it was not crisp enough on release if I set it with a valley and less let off.

The problem to me with draw stops is the valleys are very narrow to get good holding weight or to get a valley you get less holding weight and a spongy release or a lag on the string.

I accept this is just me and that draw stop work well for a lot of people but they need more time in setting them up.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Now you guys got me thinking about taking the draw stops off my C2 cams. My 3d's scores were bad this last weekend. Started off great and after the first ten targets points per target drop to 7.8. Lots of left shots into 5s. I think I started pulling harder into the stops, which made me pull some of the shots left. Did any of you have this happen? I have also heard that taking off the stops will add 1/4" to your draw?


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

With my Oneida it can add quite a bit of draw length. I found myself pulling hard into the draw stops and constantly shooting to the left. That combined with the rushed shot due to target panic, and I was a recipe for disaster. Now I am controlled and take the time to aim. I'm not sure what it is, but, I can definitely say I'm shooting 100x better than I was. I would suggest that if perhaps you're not satisfied with how you're shooting now, that you try it.


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## marcusjb (Jun 22, 2005)

Interesting idea. I know the old bear I used to shoot had a really spongy valley and seemed to work well with fingers. Currently I shoot a constitution and of course it has draw stops. I took me some time to get used to it, but now it's all part of the routine. But wouldn't removing the draw stops from bowtech's binary cam be a bit scarry? I understand that without them the cam can over rotate and lock up. Anyone have any experience with that?


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Your right they can lock up. I won't remove the draw stops on the binary cam.


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## budda2 (Apr 9, 2006)

If you are over drawing chances are it is making your draw length just a hair to long. This gets your holding arm out of wack and messes with you release hand thus giving you the left shots. I also shoot with a clicker as my dad "unclegus" does, he helped invent them lol. The clicker helps alot if you are shooting a soft walled bow to get you a consistent draw and release point. If you shoot a bow with a hard wall you can hook in to much finger and pull to hard and get them lefts as well. For 3D I shoot a hard walled cam and as funny as this sounds when I get everything where I want it my mind says click and I let it go. If any of this makes sense and helps you guys out I'm glad to have helped.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Don't get me wrong here, I like shooting off the hard wall, but sometimes I focus so hard on the shot placement that I pull harder into the wall before loose and the shot go left 6-10". This to me is a problem, I get to many fives. So I was asking if taking the stops out would help with this? When I shot a single cam I shot dead release and now trying to shoot a live release both having BT some what. I have been told when using stops you have to draw and set your tension and anchor, then not to change just loose and push at the target. 80% good 20% bad. Shot feels great, pin on spot but arrow goes left?


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Hey Guys how about a clicker stop or a stop that gives away. Something you feel just before the release or which triggers you to release at a given tension? Could be a heavy spring on the front of the draw stop peg. What your ideas and would it work?


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## aussiearcher (May 22, 2002)

musikman43155 said:


> Are there any other finger shooter's out there who have or currently are shooting their bows without draw stops?
> Nathan E. James


No right now...but funny you ask...

I am shooting a PSE moneymaker at present and whilst setting it up, i actually shot it without drawstops....AWESOME!!

Brought about a warm fuzzy feeling, days gone by.

I was so excited about this phenomenon, I called aour regional rep and told him abot the bow's shootability without stops....off came his and he too loved the feel.

Am I shooting it that way now, No. 

I do accept the fact that the stops offer consistency...so they will stay.


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

I will definitely continue shooting my AF without draw stops. The only thing I may change down the is the let off. It's currently set @ 65% but since I'm pulling a little ways through the wall, the let off is greater and the bow is a little slower. I'll get my hands on 50% modules sometime and it oughta smoke!

Ok, well maybe not smoke, but it will be a little quicker than it is now..


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Ok now that the stops are off, I seem to be shooting alot better during practice and no TP. Also, I measured my DL which changed maybe 1/16". The valley feels the same but the bow thens to draw and to hold better. I think I will shoot this way this weekend during the triple crown. Thanks Nathan for the great idea!


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## huntsome (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi guys,
am enjoying this post.
Lots of interesting ideas, never thought of removing the draw stop. mmm

Always good food for thought here.!

Be interesting to see how DDshooter goes with his weekend shoot.
Keep us posted on how you get on.

cheers:darkbeer:


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

DDSHOOTER said:


> Ok now that the stops are off, I seem to be shooting alot better during practice and no TP. Also, I measured my DL which changed maybe 1/16". The valley feels the same but the bow thens to draw and to hold better. I think I will shoot this way this weekend during the triple crown. Thanks Nathan for the great idea!


Glad it s working for you.

As I said earlier I used to shoot a Bowtech Pro 40 (single cam) with a draw stop, the guy I sold it to just could not get used to a draw stop so he was selling it on last time I saw him... mind you it was also about 40fps faster than the Merlin he was shooting and that played havoc with his gaps.


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

DDSHOOTER said:


> Ok now that the stops are off, I seem to be shooting alot better during practice and no TP. Also, I measured my DL which changed maybe 1/16". The valley feels the same but the bow thens to draw and to hold better. I think I will shoot this way this weekend during the triple crown. Thanks Nathan for the great idea!


Wow, that's great to hear! I'm not sure if perhaps the panic occurs when trying to make sure you're pulling hard against the wall or what. All of my bows in the past had softer wheels or cams and perhaps they gave enough for me not to develop a sense of TP? I really can't explain it, I just know the anxiety is not there. I'm glad I posted this and was able to help out. 

I would eventually like to add an Anchor Sight to make sure I'm anchoring consistently, since I don't use a peep. Other than that, I'm pretty satisfied. 

Good Luck DDSHOOTER!


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

Hey DDSHOOTER, how'd you do?


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Sorry for not getting back, but, had to work, water at 1:00 am and travel to two shoots in Globe Az, which is 1 1/2 hrs away. On top of that I am fighting a cold. So I tried to get some sleep.
Ok here the update:
The first day: First 11 targets was running 9.5 avg. Then the wind started and I rushed the shot (or I think thats what happen, I think I must of changed my anchor) and ended up in third place. The second day: I was matched up with the top two shooter and kind of stayed with them until I missed a 25 yard red fox. Ended up in 5th overall. That miss put out of third. I am telling you these guys can really shoot well, 389 score took first place. You have to have your A game and shoot almost all 10's. I had no left or right problems, great vertical lines. So I can say 100% (for me that is) that removing the draw stop peg help in that regard. I still have too figure out why I start shooting 5 yards hot. Could still be that TP thing. For some reason I draw high then come down into the target and stop at the back then try to hold the release until I slowly bring the Pin into the spot. Couldn't get the pin to drop in! As I said before thanks for the idea on the peg removal. I will keep working on me.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Hey, Musikman43155 did you get a Anchor sight? This is why I asked. I pulled out my hunting bow last night and took off the draw stops and put on my hogg-it with one pin. I shot it this way for a hour. After several shots I started tilting my head more into the peep which caused my shots to shoot about 5 yards hot. I have read that you can set the Anchor sight up and then set the dot high, with your anchor, and it will cause your shots to shoot hot or low to shoot low, like say 5 yards. I think I can do the same thing using one pin set at 25 yards. A geat teaching tool for getting your form consistant.


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

No, I haven't yet, I've been in a money crunch lately. I will definately try it in the next fews months or so. I originally tried using a peep, but, I didn't like it much so I started shooting without it. The new aluminum one is kinda expensive @ $100 but I hear it's most definitely worth it. I've heard very few people complain and most say it the best archery innovation since the compound bow. They do have the old plastic version for about $60 on ebay though. It has dashes that area above and below the dot to shoot multiple distances with one sight pin by changing your anchor. I think this is sort of an overlooked feature, it's not mentioned too often when I hear praises but sounds very interesting.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

I am going to try putting two indicators on the string to touch my nose to and use the one to three pin system. I put an indicator on my son's bow because he was having trouble finding his anchor and he did real well this last weekend. I think that I may not need a anchor sight if I do it right. As I said I didn't have any right or left problems.


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

I have been toying with touching the tip of my nose to the back of the string. I have a cushion button? thing (that goes under the nock of the arrow for release shooters that attach directly to the string) and practiced touching the tip of my nose to it. I also recently read about the "power triangle" which I've been trying out a little. It does seem like my bow hand is a little more stable during the follow through but the string does seem to be making contact with my forearm more frequently. It's definately a interesting concept but will take some work. I would still like the Anchor Sight to keep things pin point accurate.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*draw stops*

I use draw stops on my BEII but I don't "lean" on them. I found if I didnt have them set I was not consistent with my draw. I pull to them, then ease off. Builds too much tension in my hand to shoot off them.

BW


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

Hey DDSHOOTER, are you still shooting without draw-stops, and if so, how is it going?


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## musikman43155 (Dec 4, 2007)

....or anyone else shooting without them?


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm the opposite. I like the draw stops on my Caribou to give me an exact draw length when hunting and shooting downward in treestand situations when proper form can quickly go out the window (buck fever?). I lightly pull up to them as a reference. However if I draw too hard against them my release get very inconsistant. My 2 cents worth...


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Yes I still have My Ultraelite setup without the draw stop. But I am not shooting that bow at the present, I switched back to my Ultratec (for hunting) and I put new cams on it. I have it setup at the 65% stops because in the 75%/no stops setting the draw is to long to shoot.


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## Supermag (Jan 27, 2008)

I've never shot my Aero Force without draw stops, I did shoot it with a module that ended up with a hard back wall and I constantly shot left so I'll probably never shoot with any on.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Ok, here is my update. I started shooting without draw stops on my Hoyt because it gave me alittle more valley so i could relax my fingers until the string reaches the tips of my fingers and then let the cams simply pulls the string out of my fingers (dead release), for a very clean release. Paper tuning and arrow groups proved this works great. However I had to shoot a sligthly short draw or some of my shots would be left and holding solid on target was jumpy, but this seem to work great for targets. In contrast, with draw stops (set at 65%, longer draw) I have to keep pressure (stay on the wall so I don't jump and make a early release) on the string and kind of keep pulling/relaxing thru the shoot to get a clean release. Sometime this causes me to panic and shoot early before I was on target. I am at persent working on this part. I have to draw with the pin on target, anchor and then I can start my release motor if you know what I mean. So far I seem to shoot targets without draw stops better and Hunting/3D's with Draw stops. So I have Two bows setup this way and it seem to take 2-3 weeks to switch between them. Anyway that my take on draw stops so far,,,,,, it may change.....LOL....


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