# US Archery dress code - no jeans?



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

From this link, there is a dress code document : http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Archery/Events/Rules

It says that no blue jeans are allowed? How about black jeans? Other colors? It is just that my husband and son tend to wear jeans, and I thought that rule is odd. 

So what do you wear at those sanctioned events?


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Camo (of any material) is not allowed in USA Archery/WA tourneys. I think black jeans are ok, but not sure about that.

I can never keep these parsed restrictions straight, so I always wear khaki pants to EVERY tournament, no matter the organization. That way I can't guess wrong. And, besides, modern materials that wick are so much cooler than denim.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Any idea why jeans are not allowed?


----------



## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Black, tan, any "jean" material is up to the head judge or DOS to decide. Any type of jeans is not allowed unless the DOS accepts them or declares "inclement weather". Hard to do indoors. The dress code goes back years and is only begrudgingly modified. Khakis, cargo pants, Do mets, etc are pretty much universally accepted.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

hdracer said:


> Black, tan, any "jean" material is up to the head judge or DOS to decide. Any type of jeans is not allowed unless the DOS accepts them or declares "inclement weather". Hard to do indoors. The dress code goes back years and is only begrudgingly modified. Khakis, cargo pants, Do mets, etc are pretty much universally accepted.


I assume you are talking target archery.



> USA Archery Dress Code
> In an effort to be more inclusive and to eliminate potential issues in welcoming new archers to USA Archery events, the USA Archery Board of Directors passed a revision to the current dress code. The revised dress code addresses the desired outcome and dictates less regarding specific colors allowed during competition. The general feel was to be sure our athletes presented themselves and the sport in a professional manner without dictating the specifics.  The new dress code is effective Monday, May 31, 2010.*  USAA Dress Code:*
> 
> 1. All athletes and coaches must present a professional, athletic appearance while on the field. (Torn, ripped or badly faded clothing articles are not allowed.) Clothing may be of any color.*[Unless it is denim and it's blue? WB]*
> ...


http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Archery/Documents/ARY 2014 USA Archery Dress Code V1 1-3-14.docx

Rule 2 is ambiguous - I guess that's where the judges come in. Seems like this ought to be fixed to be un-ambiguous.


----------



## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Denim jeans are not allowed but yoga or sweat pants are.


----------



## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

Rules say no blue denim so I would assume any other color is fine. Orange, purple, green black. I would push it though. Back in the day it was all white. Then went to white tops and navy blue bottoms, and now it's very relaxed as it is thought people would not attend competitions if there were a very strict dress code.


----------



## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Seriously, denim is horrid in hot weather. Just horrid. I don't know about any outdoor events elsewhere in the country but I"m in Southern California and it was 92 today at the outdoor range where I was shooting this afternoon. I wouldn't even consider wearing denim even if it was a little cooler. I'm kinda of a uniform type person -- khaki pants navy blue top. Keep it simple.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I suspect the "no blue jeans" rule is to keep out the riff-raff, or the perception of riff-raff. To offer a more "sporting" appearance I think is really the goal. Blue jeans don't look all that athletic, or professional.

If our sport wants to be seen as a serious sport, it's probably best. But everyone has their opinion on this. It doesn't bother me in the least. I've got plenty of pairs of khaki pants and shorts, and as Larry says, I'd rather wear wicking modern materials anyway. If a person just cannot bring themselves to put on something other than jeans to shoot in, I suspect that USArchery probably isn't going to be the kind of folks they typically hang out with anyway. Not to put anyone down - I love my jeans like any Texan does - but just that it's a different crowd than your usual 3D archers. 

I really failed as a tournament director and club leader today when many of my OWN club archers showed up in jeans to shoot our 25M indoor event today.  I was disappointed in myself for not preparing them, since it was a sanctioned USArchery star fita event. Lesson learned for them, and for me.

After nearly a dozen years at this, it just doesn't even occur to me to wear jeans to shoot archery in anymore. I have so many other (better) options now. I don't even wear jeans when we shoot field. Guess I'm just conditioned that way now.

John


----------



## ARCHERYXPERT (Jan 29, 2004)

So just go with Pajamas. I see people with them on all the time now.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Osmanthus said:


> From this link, there is a dress code document : http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Archery/Events/Rules
> 
> It says that no blue jeans are allowed? How about black jeans? Other colors? It is just that my husband and son tend to wear jeans, and I thought that rule is odd.
> 
> So what do you wear at those sanctioned events?


I tell archers and coaches to avoid making choices that can be distracting from the actual performance. 
•	For instance, shooting at the last second routinely allows the judges to make a “judgment” call as to if a shot is late or not. By doing so, the results are now in the hands of others beside the actual archer.
•	The same goes for jeans color. A judge can decided that black was actually a dark shade of blue and ask that the jeans be changed. The result the archer focuses on where to get some replacement pants instead of their preparation routine or practice. Could a judge in their opinion believe that blue jeans are a generic term for all jeans and disallow them all? Who wants to take the time to attention to go thru a protest process? The lesson is to not let other have a chance to affect your performance and result. Don’t give others the chance. In this case, avoid jeans all together. 

There are many more examples where judges have different understanding of the rules. Judges come from different places and round the country and the world and have different experiences and perspectives. Judges read and comprehend the rules can differ if they have not had a chance to learn the international judging standard at World Archery Seminars and at WA tourneys. Consistent education and training is the key for judges to be able to provide the archers with a uniform application of the rules no matter if an archer is competing in a local club shoot or at the world championships.


I think that “All athletes and coaches must present a professional, athletic appearance while on the field.” is the key. If an archer is shooting the for the gold medal at a national championship and will likely have their photo published, should dress with athletic professionalism to present the sport to the public as a meaningful relevant sport. If the tourney is a club shoot for fun, relax and be happy, knowing that archers are always role models for the new archers.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I suspect the "no blue jeans" rule is to keep out the riff-raff, or the perception of riff-raff. To offer a more "sporting" appearance I think is really the goal. Blue jeans don't look all that athletic, or professional.


Doesn't seem like that big a deal to prohibit denim jeans, but it also seems sort of nit picky. Given that the rules allow any and every kind of pant other than blue jeans, including zip off shorts pants, solid color BDUs and, apparently, leggings, the exclusion of jeans seems a bit silly - a niggling point they have left over rather than a real dress code. (Part of it is that I hate getting grass and dirt stains out of kahki...  )


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow, I suspect it's an unspoken poke at the NFAA crowd, who overwhelmingly wear blue jeans to shoot in. A way to differentiate WA and USArchery from the NFAA bunch, so to speak. 

I think that message is sent and received by many, whether intended or not.

But Bob makes a good point. It's easy enough to avoid this kind of distraction. And IMO if an archer is ready to fall on their sword over jeans or no jeans, then they aren't really that serious about competing in the first place.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Warbow, I suspect it's an unspoken poke at the NFAA crowd, who overwhelmingly wear blue jeans to shoot in. A way to differentiate WA and USArchery from the NFAA bunch, so to speak.
> 
> I think that message is sent and received by many, whether intended or not.
> 
> But Bob makes a good point. It's easy enough to avoid this kind of distraction. And IMO if an archer is ready to fall on their sword over jeans or no jeans, then they aren't really that serious about competing in the first place.


Well...in that case the NFAA should just *require* jeans or camo... 

Honestly, if *everybody* wore blue jeans at USAA events the shooting line would look more professional because everybody would actually be wearing something similar in color and style. The USAA rules, now that they are relaxed (all but the jeans and camo), no longer do that. Its a total hodgepodge of colors and styles.

But, I have to say, I don't have any dogs in this...


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

So far we have only done indoor tournaments, so the issue of comfort and wicking has not come into play for us. 

My son only has long pants in jeans, and 1 pair of black pants that are his "dressy" pants. My husband's "uniform" is jeans, only recently he acquired "khaki" / chino pants because his workplace is more formal. I don't like wearing jeans, so I don't have any. I wear slacks or knit pants. 

I guess just have to remember the dress code when we participate in tournaments.


----------



## DreamOn (Jan 16, 2015)

The best is when middle aged men wear those bedazzled couture jeans. Makes me cringe.....every time.


----------



## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

It's likely that jeans aren't allowed because World Archery dress regulations specify no denim, no jeans. World Archery's dress code is based on the idea that people should wear sports clothing on the field of play.
The World Archery rule clearly says no denim, no jeans; no reference to color. Why does the USA Archery rule specify no blue jeans? I bet it's a mistake. Maybe whoever wrote down the rule is from a region of the USA where it's normal to call all jeans blue jeans, no matter what their actual color? 
In Canada, the Archery Canada rulebook says blue jeans are only permitted for Field Archery and Indoor Archery. So Canadians get to wear jeans indoors. I definitely believe it's a mistake in writing down the rule in the Archery Canada rulebook that only "blue" jeans are permitted. Blue jeans permitted but black jeans not permitted? As if! Fleece sweatpants are specifically prohibited for everything, thankfully.


----------



## ScepticalScotty (Jun 25, 2010)

R.M. Williams moleskins would be ideal then! They look great, are not denim and keep you warm.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Like I said, I can see WA's point on this, and take it in stride. 

I'd ask anyone who has a problem with the blue jeans rule this question... how would it look if the PGA tour allowed blue jeans on the golf course? Do you want to see Bubba in overalls or Boo Weekly in jeans? 

No.

Now some of the loudmouth pants/shorts are not very professional looking, but they still aren't as sloppy looking as jeans.


----------



## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

I come from the horse world where dress code and tackle are clearly specified in each discipline. In fact at one time during hunter appointments classes, you had to have a sandwich. Chicken for women, ham for men and the appropriate flask of liquor for each gender (no kidding. I SOOOO wanted to compete in those but they had none in my area). In fact, although you see people in jumper classes wearing red jackets? Red jackets at one time were reserved only for members of hunts, not just anyone who wanted to buy "pinks" as they are called. 

That said, it's useful to show some respect for whatever sport you're in, in my opinion. This is why the USAT dress code also call for tops that don't ride up and show your beer belly when at full draw (applies to men and women). Believe me that is NOT a good look.

So - anyone have gender specific sandwich suggestions for archers?


----------



## rkumetz (Jun 20, 2014)

I am going to have to disagree on the dress code thing. The sport is about putting every arrow right there
in the center of the target not about looking dapper. I show up to work every day in jeans and a sweatshirt.
I get paid for my brain not the way I look. If you don't want to stop and chat long enough to see how much
I know and how passionate I am about what I do then I don't really care to impress you. You are shallow.

With respect to keeping out the undesirable elements by banning cammo, has anyone checked the price of cammo?
You can buy white pants for less than a licensed Realtree speedo.

If someone shows up jeans and a cammo tee shirt, takes out their bow and starts tubing shafts in the X THAT
will get some media attention.

I am also a falconer. There are those in that sport who go out on horseback looking like they are headed to a fox hunt
and that is fine with me. Are they any more serious about it than those of us who tramp through the woods hunting
squirrels with our hawks? Definitely not. Would the sport have survived into the 21st century if everyone had to practice
it that way? Again, definitely not.

Put this in another perspective, when I was a kid everyone showed up to church in their "Sunday finest". I never saw anyone
with jeans or less casual (or worn) clothing. In retrospect that probably excluded some people who didn't actually own clothes
good enough to "keep up with the Jones'". While I am not a chuch-going sort of fellow (judge me if you must) I see that here in
Vermont it is entirely appropriate to show up to church in jeans and work boots. Apparently the working man shares the same God here.
My point is that it is not about what you look like. Do I think that having guys with with hang down shorts with their underwear sticking
out or women showing enough cleavage to make it impossible for a lefty to shoot in front of them is a good idea? No. But dress codes
that ban a type of fabric or a color pattern are simply absurd.


----------



## Blunt Arrow (Mar 2, 2006)

There was a time where everyone wore whites to FITA events and it really looked nice. There has been so much confusion regarding wearing khaki's or navy pants etc. What I really don't like is shooters who are paid or sponsored by manufacturers to wear there logo shirts. Also all the company names plastered all over the limbs. HOYT is probably the biggest offender of this as they fork out the most cash of all the companies and want to call the shots.

To sum it up, when I have gone to any shoots over the last ten years I would have to say in looking around, there really isn't any dress code worth talking about.


----------



## rkumetz (Jun 20, 2014)

Blunt Arrow said:


> There was a time where everyone wore whites to FITA events and it really looked nice. There has been so much confusion regarding wearing khaki's or navy pants etc. What I really don't like is shooters who are paid or sponsored by manufacturers to wear there logo shirts. Also all the company names plastered all over the limbs. HOYT is probably the biggest offender of this as they fork out the most cash of all the companies and want to call the shots.
> 
> To sum it up, when I have gone to any shoots over the last ten years I would have to say in looking around, there really isn't any dress code worth talking about.


I remember that. I wore white jeans.

Debates like this fail to recognize that sports that grow do so because of commercial support. If manufacturers and other sponsors are coughing up money that allows those
sponsored athletes to have time to shoot because they don't need to buy their own equipment or whatever support deal they have then the sponsors are going to want to
see their logo somewhere prominent. Where better than on the guy/girl standing on the podium? I am not a NASCAR fan but I am in awe of the way that they have taken
an activity that use to amuse bootleggers and turned it into a hugely profitable endeavor which is watched by millions. Granted crashing your car is probably more
interesting to the masses than a bunch of people lining up to shoot at paper targets but to me watching cars going around in a circle making left hand turns is not as
interesting as archery. 

If archery is to grow and continue to attract new blood we need to be open minded and creative about what is important to keep it a legitimate sport while also making
it appealing and marketable. In particular marketable to young people. Stodgy dress codes are not attractive to youth.


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know when that 'no jeans or camo' rule went into effect? It seems kind of silly to dictate what people wear to compete unless someone else is supplying the clothing.


----------



## gif (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't think that wa clothing rules are restrictive at all, in fact, during the summer, khaki cargo shorts and a sports polo or well fitting athletic t-shirt are pretty much standard wear for me. During the winter I usually wear jeans, but it's not a big deal to put on a pair of khakis once a month to compete.


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I think the dress code works well within a weather range. However, I have been to winter indoor and outdoor events where allowing variations on pants including corduroy and denim would be warmly appreciated (wait, was that a pun?). And on the really hot days I would like to wear soccer shorts. It's much cooler than khaki, is what I practice in, and allows a little self expression without necessarily being a product billboard. When it was 90-100 last August at the state 900 (in the morning no less), dress code seemed a little silly.


----------



## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Some traditions may be absurd, but I don’t think appropriate sports attire is one of them. NAA was created during a time when modesty drove your clothing choices and standards of appropriateness were no doubt well understood. USAA has held to the tradition of what is considered appropriate for a highly disciplined, grand-stand/court spectator sport while recognizing the evolution of sports attire. Denim has never been considered sports attire for the court. 

Around 60 years after the NAA was created, the NFAA was born with a specific goal which was to take archery off the play field to roam the countryside. Clothing choices were no doubt made that best suited that purpose. Levi Strauss’ denim fabric was shown to be comparatively sturdy against the cotton or wool fabrics of the time and would have been an easy choice for archers choosing to take to the field with bow and arrow. 

I can’t see that either group’s clothing choice makes a derisive statement of any kind toward the other. That is insulting to both groups and hardly promotes camaraderie among all archers. I agree with StarDog, “…show some respect for whatever sport you're in…”.


----------



## Frederick D. Be (Mar 3, 2009)

StarDog said:


> Seriously, denim is horrid in hot weather. Just horrid. I don't know about any outdoor events elsewhere in the country but I"m in Southern California and it was 92 today at the outdoor range where I was shooting this afternoon. I wouldn't even consider wearing denim even if it was a little cooler. I'm kinda of a uniform type person -- khaki pants navy blue top. Keep it simple.


Kaki's/Dockers...that will fit the bill. This really is no big deal...so they have a rule. Just abide by it and protest it for the year and then leave it up to a vote by the board for next year. Sometimes we do not agree and things seem silly...and they really are sometimes...but look at the big picture and smile...that goes a log way. Cheers!
Fred


----------



## jaredjms (Oct 24, 2007)

Maybe the JOAD experts can clear something up for me. Someone recently told me that a JOAD club member shooting in a JOAD tournament has to wear a shirt that says JOAD on it. Is that true? The only thing I found said that club members SHOULD wear club shirts to shoots. Does it actually have to say JOAD?


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

jaredjms said:


> Maybe the JOAD experts can clear something up for me. Someone recently told me that a JOAD club member shooting in a JOAD tournament has to wear a shirt that says JOAD on it. Is that true? The only thing I found said that club members SHOULD wear club shirts to shoots. Does it actually have to say JOAD?


No. It does not.

My 13 year old son wears pretty much what he wants as long as it's conforming to WA dress code.


----------



## jaredjms (Oct 24, 2007)

That's what I thought, thanks


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

jaredjms said:


> Maybe the JOAD experts can clear something up for me. Someone recently told me that a JOAD club member shooting in a JOAD tournament has to wear a shirt that says JOAD on it. Is that true? The only thing I found said that club members SHOULD wear club shirts to shoots. Does it actually have to say JOAD?


as noted, there is no such rule. at JOAD indoor and outdoor nationals, an archer must be a member of a recognized JOAD club. many JOAD archers wear shirts of say sponsors, would be sponsors, hoped for sponsors or other such things


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

The absolute excessive cost to compete at the World level means the shooters have to have access to a lot of money. As an over generalized stereotype, wealthy people don't wear jeans. So then when one shows up at these tournaments in jeans, it is an indicator that they are not of the financial elite. So instead of letting scores eliminate the competition, the rules makers can eliminate the highly skilled riff-raff by attacking their clothing.

Its not about developing the best of the best, but to develop the best of those that can afford it.

Though I don't agree with the rule, it doesn't affect me any. I just wear slacks all the time, even on the field shoots. They fit my legs better than the beanpole leg designs the jean makers think everybody has.

What is fun is that the rules don't say anything against kilts. I am really tempted to show up in a kilt one day.

Pete


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Mr. Roboto said:


> The absolute excessive cost to compete at the World level means the shooters have to have access to a lot of money. As an over generalized stereotype, wealthy people don't wear jeans. So then when one shows up at these tournaments in jeans, it is an indicator that they are not of the financial elite. So instead of letting scores eliminate the competition, the rules makers can eliminate the highly skilled riff-raff by attacking their clothing.
> 
> Its not about developing the best of the best, but to develop the best of those that can afford it.
> 
> ...


anyone who knows Guy Gehrig gets a laugh at the kilt suggestion. Or if you are an OAA member in Ohio, John Boyer. both have done that before-many a time


----------



## MJAnderson68 (Nov 15, 2013)

Jim C said:


> anyone who knows Guy Gehrig gets a laugh at the kilt suggestion. Or if you are an OAA member in Ohio, John Boyer. both have done that before-many a time


Good to know. The family tartan will fly as proudly as my arrows. And maybe I will disgust/distract/blind a few competitors along the way...


----------



## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Utilikilt. Seriously, I know someone who wears them


----------



## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Warbow said:


> I assume you are talking target archery.


Yes, WB, I was. There is no USA Archery Field events around these parts. There is almost no Field Archery of any type.


----------



## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Jim C said:


> anyone who knows Guy Gehrig gets a laugh at the kilt suggestion. Or if you are an OAA member in Ohio, John Boyer. both have done that before-many a time


I don't think I've seen John in anything but a kilt. Indoors, outdoors, 100* or 30* he is always in character...


----------



## gif (Jul 14, 2012)

Really mr. Roboto? A pair of khakis costs less than a tab. Do you really think there are masses of people who don't compete for the sole reason that they can't afford a pair of khakis? If that's the case then they don't have a bow either.

99% of archers aren't "financial elite" 
Yes, the sport is expensive, but the dress code should be way down the list of things to complain about as far as cost.


----------



## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Talk about "elitist sports". Golf clubs. Greens fees. Or how about parents who move to some town where the gymnastics or the skating coach is. 

All sports cost money. There is the "buy in " (gear). Then the next phase (lessons). Then the next phase (competition). Then the "upgrades". Try "upgrading" an upper level show horse if you want some sticker shock. And you still have to feed the prior horse "$100 bills" til he/she sells and you start feeding the NEW horse $100 bills.

As for sanctioned dress: try upwards of $600 for riding boots. Versus $24.99 for Converse All Stars at TJ Max.

Archery parents: be glad your kid in archery. Cheap entertainment compared to other sports and the whole family can shoot. And still keeps them out of the malls.

I find archery to be very democratic. Even a well coached JOAD kid can be a source of advice for an adult shooter willing to listen. (I learned this from the horse universe where teenagers were often better informed than adult beginners). 

When I am standing there puzzling out what to do next because my arrows aren't grouping, it's nice to have some very wise JOAD kid say very calmly,"Shoot a few more ends, see what happens, before you adjust your sight."

As for dress code, play your cards right and your light weight business casual can double as archery comp dress. Or vice versa. 

Or if you're cheap like me and want to spend the $$ on gear -- go to thrift stores. That's where I found my light weight khakis and a nice polo shirt made of wicking material.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

StarDog said:


> Talk about "elitist sports". Golf clubs. Greens fees. Or how about parents who move to some town where the gymnastics or the skating coach is.
> 
> All sports cost money. There is the "buy in " (gear). Then the next phase (lessons). Then the next phase (competition). Then the "upgrades". Try "upgrading" an upper level show horse if you want some sticker shock. And you still have to feed the prior horse "$100 bills" til he/she sells and you start feeding the NEW horse $100 bills.
> 
> ...


Adding to this...

Every sport at it's higher levels has it's price. Archery is CHEAP compared to other sports.

With regards to the uniform of the day (pardon the military parlance) - archery has one of the cheapest dress codes around. Unless required for certain events (like international travel where he has to wear a USA Archery jersey), my son wears a t-shirt, basketball shorts, a baseball cap, and sneakers to pretty much every archery event he can do so.

Yes, I realize that is a double standard. You can wear sloppy basketball shorts but you can't wear indigo denim blue jeans. 

Wah. The rules are there - grow up. Sloppy athletic dress is compliant. Blue colored denim or other cotton twill like fabric is not. And ultimately, can you put up the score or not? That's where the true test comes into play.

Speaking from a judge's standpoint - I've been forced in the past to explain to an archer complaining about a fellow archer wearing what appeared to be denim of a non-indigo blue color that I am not going to try and discern whether or not the cotton twill fabric has it's weft threads passing under two or more waft threads in it's weave. (and that, my friends, is the technical definition of denim fabric)

If it's not blue (or camo pattern, for that matter) cotton denim or twill like fabric, as a judge - I really don't care. It sure as heck does not provide the archer wearing the non-blue colored denim any sort of advantage on the line. And if it doesn't provide the archer with an unfair advantage on the line, then you (as a fellow archer, a coach, or a parent) shouldn't care one bit at all. Pardon the sarcasm - if you have to worry about what someone else is wearing, then you don't have a good mental game going.

Even if it WAS blue cotton denim or twill, it's not going to provide the archer wearing it with an unfair advantage on the line, so you (again, as the archer, parent or coach) shouldn't care one bit at all either. Ironically - if the person shot a national or world record, the wearing of the blue denim or twill like fabric could prevent that scorecard from being signed off on. 

-Steve


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Every sport at it's higher levels has it's price. Archery is CHEAP compared to other sports.


Keep saying this enough, and people might actually start to believe it! 

As for the expense of clothing, that argument doesn't hold water IMO. Goodwill is full of khaki pants and shorts.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

MJAnderson68 said:


> Good to know. The family tartan will fly as proudly as my arrows. And maybe I will disgust/distract/blind a few competitors along the way...


Just make sure you shave those nasty legs:wink:


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

The blue jean rule is outdated and does not make any sense today. I'm totally fine for anyone to wear blue jeans, pink jeans, whatever color jeans they like, at any archery competitions.


----------



## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Jim C said:


> Just make sure you shave those nasty legs:wink:


I always keep my eyes at eye level at all times.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Yeah...

$3-$6 is awfully elite for a set of Dockers at Arc or Salvation Army. (typed while holding pinky in the air while drinking coffee)


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Beastmaster said:


> Even if it WAS blue cotton denim or twill, it's not going to provide the archer wearing it with an unfair advantage on the line, so you (again, as the archer, parent or coach) shouldn't care one bit at all either. Ironically - if the person shot a national or world record, the wearing of the blue denim or twill like fabric could prevent that scorecard from being signed off on.
> 
> -Steve


Well, that's ironic, because chino's are made of twill (denim is a type of twill) - weren't khaki or blue chinos are part of the old NAA required dress code? :dontknow:


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

bobnikon said:


> Yeah...
> 
> $3-$6 is awfully elite for a set of Dockers at Arc or Salvation Army. (typed while holding pinky in the air while drinking coffee)


And if you have looked... A REAL kilt is a heck of a lot more expensive than the best Chinos you can find new in the store.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

This thread has the makings of a new "shoes" thread. LOL.


----------



## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

I am not worried about the price of khaki pants (black chino pants is OK, right?) or "athletic" pants when I posted the question. It is just that for all the times we go to practice shooting my son has worn jeans probably 95% of the time, coming from school, and I was not aware of a particular dress code. The indoor range we go to is probably full of jean-wearing people as well. I have to pay more attention at the next tournament we go to (local). We are beginners so we haven't been to nationals or any high level tournaments.

I should pay more attention to fashion at the tournaments... usually I am too focused on getting myself set up, my own shooting, and my son's set up...


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Sorry some folks have to learn this rule in such a seemingly rude and upsetting way. But frankly, once the rule is known to them, it should be pretty darn easy to comply with. Just like a multi-pin sight on a compound, or a 27/64" arrow, or many other frequent "unknowns" when shooting World Archery rules for the first time. You learn them, then follow them if you want to play. It's really not a big deal IMO.


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

It is amazing how sensitive people get - and they are the ones I have the best time shooting with 

My comment wasn't about the cost of the clothes. Reread what I said. Again, stereotypically, people of financial means were nicer clothes. To compete at the world level requires a lot of money. Plain and simple.


So Kilts are legal - I now know an easy way to eliminate my competition. First blind them with my boney white legs, and then threaten them with an answer to the regimental question. This is going to be a really fun year of shooting


----------



## T2SHOOTER (Feb 26, 2014)

It's simple. Know the rules or don't shoot. Do all the whining you want, but it won't change the rule. End of story. Too many today think they're above the rules. See it everyday on our range. That's a safety trail--use it. No punching range targets or walking backwards on range--practice range for that. No smoking on site--area provided. No broadheads on target bales--pit available. That's just in two weeks. Rules are there and in place for a reason, so do it. Smile; I love being the bad guy.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Beastmaster said:


> Wah. The rules are there - grow up. Sloppy athletic dress is compliant. Blue colored denim or other cotton twill like fabric is not.


I agree that putting on kahki's isn't that big a deal. But, kahki's *are* cotton twill. And I have to say I've not been able to find a really good bright line that defines the difference between the twill in chinos vs. the twill in denim. I think they can both be the same weave, but that the indigo dye on just the warp yarns, with white filling threads, makes for classic denim. It seems that if the fabric is dyed all the way through, it could just be a twill. 

I'd think what USAA means to ban is indego denim and/or jeans-style pants specifically, a style of pants featuring stitched on back pockets, contrasting parallel stitching, and a parallel stitched flat felled outside side seam - and not twill pants in a non-jeans style that are blue, since any color is allowed, including blue.


----------



## MJAnderson68 (Nov 15, 2013)

It could be worse


----------



## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

I think "blue jeans" are out not because of the material but because of the condition some of them are worn in. When was the last time you saw a set of khakis with the knees blown out, the butt cheeks peeking out, ragged and tattered. Jeans on the other hand can be bought with holes already in them (and they are more expensive than non-holey variety). I think any color denim should be ok, especially in the cooler weather (even indoors). I have several pairs that have felt or flannel lining that are super comfortable and warm. Negates the need to wear restrictive long johns.


----------



## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

MJAnderson68 said:


> It could be worse
> 
> View attachment 2186255


The guy on the right. Is he using an early version of NTS? Just wondering....:wink:


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

StarDog said:


> The guy on the right. Is he using an early version of NTS? Just wondering....:wink:


THAT's funny!!! I had the same thought!


----------



## RickBac (Sep 18, 2011)

WA and USAA do not want blue jeans because they want a more professional look.

I feel it is a combination of the condition a lot of blue jeans are worn in and it can come across a too casual not sporting look.

Remember, we want to look like the major sports. TV money for the future.

Also this rule follows the World Stage not just the USA Stage.


----------



## Lipi (Sep 9, 2014)

Hi, I know you were talking primarily about USArchery dress code, but since WA was also often mentioned, I tried to find coresponding dress code in World Archery rules - without success. Can anybody show me where to find it?
As far as I was able, i only found Denim jeans mentioned in Chapter 20.1.1. (Book 3) which clearly only regulates dressing at "Olympic Games, World Championchips and World Cup events".
An OK, Chapter 33.1. (Book 4) states, that in field archery _"*Trousers of their choice, including denim*, for the Qualification, Elimination and Semi-finals rounds. Full Team uniform, which shall not include denim, for Team Rounds and Medal Matches. Clothing shall not be camouflage. No oversize or baggy type trousers are allowed."_ 
Unless I missed something (which is possible, and I repeat that I'd apreciete if someone pointed me in the direction of other regulations), clothing regulations for appearence sake in WA really only concerns those on top, who will probably be seen on TV. Prohibition of CAMO clothes and oversized trousers in field archery is for safety reasons - or at least I believe so.
Isn't it possible that US Archery made the dress code this thread is about by their own initiative? Archery assotiation in my country also belongs to WA, but I wasn't able to find any self-imposed regulations about clothing.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> clothing regulations for appearence sake in WA really only concerns those on top





> that in* field* archery


Operative word here is FIELD


----------



## Lipi (Sep 9, 2014)

Yep, as far as Book 4 (and the chapter 33.1.) goes. Sorry I didn't explicitly write it. In target archery, I would hardly call a CAMO clothes to be be a safety concern. But where exactly, with the exception of olympics and world stage tournaments in chapter 20.1.1., has WA a dress code corresponding to the one USAA has?
I am not saying it doesn't exist, I just hoped someone would help me find it. (Perhaps it's not included directly in the rules but rather in some other document. I really don't know and am curious about it.)
Since even in this thread was stated that there are differences in dress code in US and Canada (and according to a guy on youtube, Australia has again somewhat different aproach), I'd like to read the original code.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Lipi said:


> Yep, as far as Book 4 (and the chapter 33.1.) goes. Sorry I didn't explicitly write it. In target archery, I would hardly call a CAMO clothes to be be a safety concern. But where exactly, with the exception of olympics and world stage tournaments in chapter 20.1.1., has WA a dress code corresponding to the one USAA has?
> I am not saying it doesn't exist, I just hoped someone would help me find it. (Perhaps it's not included directly in the rules but rather in some other document. I really don't know and am curious about it.)
> Since even in this thread was stated that there are differences in dress code in US and Canada (and according to a guy on youtube, Australia has again somewhat different aproach), I'd like to read the original code.


Yeah, that is curious. Chapter 20 "Dress Regulations" is specifically limited to "During the *Olympic Games, World Championships and World Cup Events*, athletes and team officials shall dress in sports clothing on the field of play". Is that because FITA does not dictate dress regulations to NGBs for national events? :dontknow:


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Is that because FITA does not dictate dress regulations to NGBs for national events?


I think this is a very good question, and believe that USArchery athletes should only be subject to USArchery's rules here in the states. Is there an official "world archery" tournament sanctioning? If so, then let their rules apply to those events, but let USArchery make their own rules for domestic events. 

Just blindly saying "we follow WA rules" is a bit lazy and unresponsive IMO. 

I heard a rumor that Camo of all kinds, on anything, was going to be banned. Not sure if that's a WA thing, or a USArchery thing, but I can tell you if it's a WA thing and USArchery follows that rule, they are shooting themselves in the foot.


----------



## Earthroot (Feb 12, 2015)

Dress codes are simply a professional code of whining. I have my own "whines" about dress, but; I understand that's a whine over something that is none of my business. 
Dress to code or don't participate. If you feel strongly enough about the unfairness of a dress code, put it in writing and send it to the appropriate authorities (on what you wear (ridiculous)).


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I agree that camo is a field/3d practical problem and not just a formality.

However, the archery I see on TV is hunting related so I don't buy at all that the manner of dress negatively affects TV time. It might affect the look of the presentation but I don't know if dress whites or dress code necessarily comes out better on ratings. I think that comes down to product and whether it's interesting. I'd not assume that country club is more attractive to interest. To the contrary, I think the presentation of the sport I've seen on WA events could use a little amping up. They don't quite sell how far they're shooting, how hard it is, the intensity of competing at this.

You could in theory have stricter dress codes for certain events a la Wimbledon and baseline limits on expectations for USAA events without basically limiting it to khaki.

Bear in mind, I say this, but I wear golf type polos to many events. I'd just like the freedom on a hot Texas summer day, or a cold Texas winter day, to adjust. On hot days here it's my experience people wear one thing to practice in, and something else within the code to compete. Or the rules get waived so winter wear is suitable for the weather. In which case, maybe adjust the rules?


----------



## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> I heard a rumor that Camo of all kinds, on anything, was going to be banned. Not sure if that's a WA thing, or a USArchery thing, but I can tell you if it's a WA thing and USArchery follows that rule, they are shooting themselves in the foot.


To be honest, I'm kind of turned off by camo... if I was channel surfing and came across a show with a bunch of people in camo wielding bows, I'd assume it was yet another show about killing animals and switch over. Camo seems more of a US/Canadian thing anyway... you don't tend to get people walking around in head to toe camo elsewhere, which is why I could see WA banning it but not USArchery. It's kind of like the whole woodsball vs speedball thing in paintball: the big pro tourneys want to stay away from the image of being like the military so most of the gear is brightly coloured, and the markers look like space guns instead of real weapons. 

Jeans are so ubiquitous that I don't think they are that big of a deal. Maybe the rule started out as something to keep out the riff raff, but everyone wears them nowadays... the rich just buy more expensive jeans!


----------



## T2SHOOTER (Feb 26, 2014)

Just because jeans are everywhere doesn't make it right. A dress code is just that and needs to be followed. Again, it's not that hard to do. Get a clue.


----------



## mt_elkhunter (Feb 28, 2010)

Hell upon reading that I'd wear sweat pants. Then say that the code doesn't forbide it and these are my professional sweats.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

T2SHOOTER said:


> Just because jeans are everywhere doesn't make it right. A dress code is just that and needs to be followed. Again, it's not that hard to do. Get a clue.


Just because something exists doesn't mean you have to shut up and take it. I agree that not wearing jeans isn't that big a deal, but that doesn't mean that people can't lobby for a more rational dress code. Singling out jeans is just silly given that the USAA rules already prohibit "Torn, ripped or badly faded clothing".

So, here's the rule:



> 2. No camo or blue denim (jeans) may be worn at target events.


Let's play a game of Jeans, or Not Jeans.

I think we can all agree, these are jeans:







They are denim, which is a twill fabric that typically features indigo yarn-dyed weft threads. Indigo doesn't penetrate the yarn well, resulting in the characteristic fading and wear we see in classic blue jeans (what was a bug is now a feature).

The denim wiki notes:


> It is a characteristic of most indigo denim that only the warp threads are dyed, whereas the weft threads remain plain white. As a result of the warp-faced twill weaving, one side of the textile then shows the blue warp threads and the other side shows the white weft threads. This is why blue jeans are white on the inside.


The jeans also feature the iconic contrasting stitching found on classic jeans.

But can you wear jeans that aren't blue, since the rules specifically say "blue?" As Bob notes as a judge, " A judge can decided that black was actually a dark shade of blue and ask that the jeans be changed" - so it's a risk. And Beastmaster, also a judge, expands denim to include all twill " if the person shot a national or world record, the wearing of the blue denim or twill like fabric could prevent that scorecard from being signed off on. "

However, I'd say that is wrong. The rules say denim. Denim is a twill, but not all twill is denim. (Kind of like how all jeans are pants but not all pants are jeans. Judges cannot rule pants illegal because jeans are pants, likewise blue twill is not illegal, only blue denim.)

Here are some classic kahkis/chinos. They are twill, because that is what most cotton pants are made from:









Twill ridges:








Clearly not jeans, even though they are twill. And they still wouldn't be jeans even if they were blue (and, in fact, in blue, would be compliant with the older, more restrictive USAA dress code.)

But how about these "Brushed Twill Pants"? They are five pocket pants stitched in a jeans style, but with matching stitching instead of contrasting stitching and with fully died warp and weft threads. They are summer-weight twill, not denim:









Are they jeans? They aren't denim. They are sold on the Costco website as "5 Pocket Brushed Twill Pant." The label says "5-Pocket Brushed Cotton Pant". And the rules are specifically "blue denim (jeans)", not cotton, not twill.

How about these? They are _blue_ brushed twill. Again, matching warp and weft threads, just as with khakis/chinos. 









Jeans or not jeans?

Strictly speaking, I'd say "not jeans". They aren't denim. And they are decent looking, certainly nicer than many of the outfits people will legally wear. But, with judges out there apparently being falsely taught that twill is denim, I wouldn't risk wearing them. (Not really judges fault - the definition of denim vs. twill is actually a bit vague in the on-line articles.) I think the real solution is for USAA to embrace this:



> Torn, ripped or badly faded clothing articles are not allowed.


And dump this:



> No camo or blue denim (jeans) may be worn at target events.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> I think this is a very good question, and believe that USArchery athletes should only be subject to USArchery's rules here in the states. Is there an official "world archery" tournament sanctioning? If so, then let their rules apply to those events, but let USArchery make their own rules for domestic events.
> 
> Just blindly saying "we follow WA rules" is a bit lazy and unresponsive IMO.
> 
> I heard a rumor that Camo of all kinds, on anything, was going to be banned. Not sure if that's a WA thing, or a USArchery thing, but I can tell you if it's a WA thing and USArchery follows that rule, they are shooting themselves in the foot.


http://www.worldarchery.org/Portals...14/Bk3_Art.11.3.3_Art.20.1.1_Bk4_Art.33.1.pdf



> Book 3 – Chapter 11 – Article 11.3.3:
> Athlete equipment shall not include camouflage colours of any kind.





> Book 3 – Chapter 20 – Article 20.1.1 (Bullet 4)
> During the Olympic Games, World Championships and World Cup Events,
> athletes and team officials shall dress in sports clothing on the field of
> play.
> ...


----------



## mcullumber (Jul 31, 2006)

Let me shake things up a bit. The following will be voted upon at WA Congress in Copenhagen this year during the World Championships. Here is the link - http://www.worldarchery.org/Portals...14/Bk3_Art.11.3.3_Art.20.1.1_Bk4_Art.33.1.pdf

This includes no Camo on Accessories and Equipment, including bows

*BYLAW*

*BOOKS 1-5 WORLD ARCHERY CONSTITUTION AND RULES*

Approved by World Archery Executive Board on 14 December 2014 *Effective as of 1 January 2016*

*Book 3, Chapter 11, Article 11.3.3* - This is for all Archers
*Book 3, Chapter 20, Article 20.1.1* -This is for Olympic, World Championships of all kinds and World Cup Events
*Book 4, Chapter 33, Article 33.1* - This is for Field and 3D World Championships

*Book 3 – Chapter 11 – Article 11.3.3:*
Athlete equipment shall not include camouflage colours of any kind.

*Book 3 – Chapter 20 – Article 20.1.1 (Bullet 4)*
During the Olympic Games, World Championships and World Cup Events, athletes and team officials shall dress in sports clothing on the field of play.
	All members of one team by category shall be dressed in the same team uniform. The teams of one country may wear different design and colour uniforms. Team officials may wear a different style but should wear the same colours and should be easily identified as the official of their team;
	Women shall wear dresses, skirts, divided skirts, shorts (these may not be shorter than the athlete’s fingertips when the arms and fingers are extended at the athlete’s side) or trousers, and blouses or tops (covering the front and back of the body, be fixed over each shoulder while still covering the midriff when she is at full draw);
	Men shall wear trousers or shorts (these may not be shorter than the athlete’s fingertips when the arms and fingers are extended at the athlete’s side) and long or short sleeved shirts (covering the midriff when at full draw);
	No denim, jeans or camouflage clothes and equipment may be worn nor any oversize or baggy type pants or shorts;
	During the Team and Mixed Team match play competition the same colour and style shirt/blouse/top and the same colour pants/shorts/skirts shall be worn;
	Due to weather conditions, protective clothing such as sweaters, track suits, raingear, etc. may be worn following approval by the Technical Delegate of the event or, in his absence, the Chairperson of the Tournament Judge Commission;
	Headwear is optional 

*Book 4 – Chapter 33 – Article 33.1*
Shall wear shirts with name and country at all times. Sport shoes or walking boots shall be worn by all athletes and officials, these may be different styles but shall cover the entire foot. Trousers of their choice, including denim, for the Qualification, Elimination and Semi-finals rounds. Full Team uniform, which shall not include denim, for Team Rounds and Medal Matches. Clothing and equipment shall not be camouflage. No oversize or baggy type trousers are allowed.


Now, This is what WA will be voting in. My guess is that it will pass. USA Archery has not made any decision on what to do at this time, as they are waiting to see what happens in Congress. WA does not care what we do in our own National Tournaments, but it would be in effect for tournament that are World Ranking Events (WRE) like the Arizona Cup. It would apply to ALL archers entering the AZ Cup.

For a list of all proposed By-laws go here http://www.worldarchery.org/NEWS/News/ArtMID/10510/ArticleID/9050/Bylaws-July-2013---June-2015


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I suspect the "no blue jeans" rule is to keep out the riff-raff, or the perception of riff-raff. To offer a more "sporting" appearance I think is really the goal. Blue jeans don't look all that athletic, or professional.
> John


Oh boy don't get me started... Oh to late. 
The hole rule thing that govern personal appearance and other elements completely unrelated to the equipment and or skill and performance of the archer are just unneeded restrictions in my book. Any dress code no matter how restrictive is going to turn off a certain number of folks. In my book a shooting line with 150 people on wearing jeans or not looks more like a legitimate shooting event than a line with 20 people all dressed in white.

Even this less restrictive dress code is more than enough to reenforce the "Snooty" reputation the USArchery org has. Some think that's a good thing many do not. I guess it's all what you are looking for. USArchery wants their events to only include those most interested in a high level of competition and that is OK so long as it is understood that the consequence will always be less archers attending USArchery events then their alternatives.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

USArchery events are overflowing, so I doubt they are concerned. And believe it or not, dress codes often attract as many people as they turn away. Probably more. 

and this thread will probably overtake the shoes thread someday. LOL!


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> USArchery events are overflowing, so I doubt they are concerned. And believe it or not, dress codes often attract as many people as they turn away. Probably more.
> 
> and this thread will probably overtake the shoes thread someday. LOL!


This has not been my experience with the smaller local events. 
I expect this may be the case with the larger events and international events but certainly not at the local level at least not in any part of the country I have lived in. Any time you intentionally discriminate you reduce the the potential pool. Yes it's possible that you'll actract the "right" sort of people but you are without question reducing the overall pool to select from.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

b0w_bender said:


> This has not been my experience with the smaller local events.
> I expect this may be the case with the larger events and international events but certainly not at the local level at least not in any part of the country I have lived in. Any time you intentionally discriminate you reduce the the potential pool. Yes it's possible that you'll actract the "right" sort of people but you are without question reducing the overall pool to select from.


Hm. So rules are intentional discrimination?


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Beastmaster said:


> Hm. So rules are intentional discrimination?


for the actual definition of the word the answer is yes of course.

By enacting the rule you have discriminated against all those who are ignorant to the rule and show up without the proper dress (shame on them) and anyone who doesn't agree with the rule and isn't interested in supporting an organization that promotes it. 
Now limbwalkers assertion, and he may be right but I doubt it, is that more people prefer being told what they can or cannot wear. Or better yet they prefer being able to tell someone else what they can and cannot wear. Those are the types of people we want and that's why we have it.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

b0w_bender said:


> for the actual definition of the word the answer is yes of course.
> 
> By enacting the rule you have discriminated against all those who are ignorant to the rule and show up without the proper dress (shame on them) and anyone who doesn't agree with the rule and isn't interested in supporting an organization that promotes it.
> Now limbwalkers assertion, and he may be right but I doubt it, is that more people prefer being told what they can or cannot wear. Or better yet they prefer being able to tell someone else what they can and cannot wear. Those are the types of people we want and that's why we have it.


I think the part you're objecting to is the word "uniformity".

In an extreme version of what you're expressing, this also means that someone who is ignorant of the rules also can ignore the scoring methodology inherent in the rules of that organization as well. Or can ignore the safety protocols, so on, so forth.

If this is a mere objection over the fact that you want to dress how you like, whenever you like, so be it. Don't expect others to conform to your worldview.

With regards to growth "in your area", I would love to see WA-Prez chime in on this.

As a general rule of thumb, and this is speaking strictly in a global environment standpoint - the rules are there. If you want to play in that environment, you play by the rules set forth in that environment. If you don't - tough. Go play in another sandbox. 

Speaking generally - if you don't want to shoot WA style shoots, so be it. There are a crapton of others that are willing to do so, in places that are glad to see you come and shoot. If you want to change how WA shoots are done - start at the top...with World Archery. Complaining here isn't going to change the rules as you see fit.

Wishing for a different sanctioning body isn't going to happen anytime soon. Enact change where it can be changed, not in a discussion forum in which it has likely 1/10000th of the entire archery world (hunting and target combined).

-Steve


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Beastmaster said:


> I think the part you're objecting to is the word "uniformity".
> 
> In an extreme version of what you're expressing, this also means that someone who is ignorant of the rules also can ignore the scoring methodology inherent in the rules of that organization as well. Or can ignore the safety protocols, so on, so forth.
> -Steve


No not even an extreme version of what I'm talking about, in my previous posts I mention that this is a rule that does not affect performance or equipment and yes of course safety. This only affects perception of the sport. that's it, it doesn't promote higher scores or fair competitive practices it is simply a PR dictate. I'm not necessarily advocating that the USArchery should get rid of their dress code. The USArchery leadership can do what ever they want. To be clear there are consequences and they aren't that people will be going out to buy a pair of Khakis so they can be allowed to participate. People vote with their feet, they will and they have.

It's very clear from this thread that there are some significant feelings about enforcing a dress code. So post that say _*"it isn't a big deal" *_are missing the point. Of course it's not a big deal to put on a pair of khakis. The question is do they like the idea that someone is making their choices for them and will they actually support it. I don't and I know I'm not alone.

Ya I know I'm leaning really close to the libertarian line here 




Beastmaster said:


> As a general rule of thumb, and this is speaking strictly in a global environment standpoint - the rules are there. If you want to play in that environment, you play by the rules set forth in that environment. If you don't - tough. Go play in another sandbox.
> 
> Speaking generally - if you don't want to shoot WA style shoots, so be it. There are a crapton of others that are willing to do so, in places that are glad to see you come and shoot. If you want to change how WA shoots are done - start at the top...with World Archery. Complaining here isn't going to change the rules as you see fit.
> 
> Wishing for a different sanctioning body isn't going to happen anytime soon. Enact change where it can be changed, not in a discussion forum in which it has likely 1/10000th of the entire archery world (hunting and target combined).


Are you actually insinuating that a well reasoned articulated argument is incapable of changing minds? Are you suggesting that a healthy debate is unwelcome? Perhaps your attempt to shut down the discussion is also missing the point of a FORUM.


----------



## T2SHOOTER (Feb 26, 2014)

Harping in forum won't change the rule. If I wanted to shoot, I'd dress the code. Since I don't.... The idea that one shows up and takes his/her chances or doesn't know the rule is rude. I would prefer board shorts, sandals and tank top, yet I'm not searching for support and won't. I support Beastmaster write up and will say while this thread demonstrates the "Do what I want regardless of rules" from a few, most will follow the rules and play the game.


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

T2SHOOTER said:


> Harping in forum won't change the rule.


Agreed


T2SHOOTER said:


> If I wanted to shoot, I'd dress the code. Since I don't.... The idea that one shows up and takes his/her chances or doesn't know the rule is rude.


Agreed


T2SHOOTER said:


> I support Beastmaster write up and will say while this thread demonstrates the "Do what I want regardless of rules" from a few, most will follow the rules and play the game.


Despite Beastmasters attempt to conflate what I was saying "with ignore all rules", I don't think I or anyone else is advocating "do what ever you want regardless of the rules"


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Limbwalker, How much further do we need to go to get to the shoe strings thread? (my fingers are getting tired)


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

b0w_bender said:


> Limbwalker, How much further do we need to go to get to the shoe strings thread? (my fingers are getting tired)


We're well on our way here.  ha, ha.


----------



## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> We're well on our way here.  ha, ha.


Not even close :wink:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=601182


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Hmm...under the proposed rules, would my camp shoestring finger sling be banned? :mg:

Also, are jeggings allowed? They just look like denim :wink:


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Oops..."camo finger sling..."


----------



## T2SHOOTER (Feb 26, 2014)

Killed with idiocy. Go figure. Smile.


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

That deserves a closer look, that right there is a dress code killer!
Enjoy ladies!


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

b0w_bender said:


> That deserves a closer look, that right there is a dress code killer!
> Enjoy ladies!


How about these USAA legal babies?:









Genuine Loud MacLeod Tartan golf pants - so they are real athletic wear. And definitely not camouflage or denim 

Of course, with pants that obnoxious you really better be able to shoot well :embara:


----------



## VaDeerHunter (Feb 25, 2007)

rkumetz said:


> I am going to have to disagree on the dress code thing. The sport is about putting every arrow right there
> in the center of the target not about looking dapper. I show up to work every day in jeans and a sweatshirt.
> I get paid for my brain not the way I look. If you don't want to stop and chat long enough to see how much
> I know and how passionate I am about what I do then I don't really care to impress you. You are shallow.
> ...



I have another take on this from a completely different angle. I am a Sales Engineer that works in the TV Broadcast Industry. I also do freelance work for production, primarily sports. The fundamental rule is if you are in the truck you can wear casual clothes that are not "how might you say" provocative. Outside, if you are off camera (meaning your not going to wind up in a shot) casual clothes that reflect a businesslike approach. If you can wind up on camera (or in a still shot) you wear long pants, collard shirt and what would be deemed and appropriate for public display. USA Archery is connected to the world, and for good reason wants to show a good reflection of its organization and its members just like the TV networks do. Dress is perception to a lot of people. Appropriate attire is some times subjective. I was shooting this week and also doing "Press Photographs" for the shoot. Those photos could wind up almost anywhere, so looking good for the camera is a reflection of the organization and the participants. USA Archery has an image it wants to project and image has a lot to do with respect and more importantly increased membership and archery awareness to the public. I hope someday that CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX and ESPN might have some showing of archery competition in prime time. Its just an opinion I hope might resonate with everyone. Think of it this way, most state game departments now discourage having a dead deer hung out where the public can see. Main reason is they want the public perception of hunting to be about the upside of the sport. What you wear says a lot about you and your sport. Ever notice how when pro basketball players are all dressed to the 9's when they get off a bus? As one of my local pastors says, "not a sermon, just a thought."


----------



## VaDeerHunter (Feb 25, 2007)

Your better be Rory McIlroy too!


----------



## unoarcher (Jul 25, 2013)

I will start an archery organization where everyone can wear/not wear whatever they want. Who's with me? :shade:


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

unoarcher said:


> I will start an archery organization where everyone can wear/not wear whatever they want. Who's with me? :shade:


 That's whats makes Vegas so great! Grassroots pros and recreational archers and everything in between all together. Archery for Archers. We can use each and every diverse type and organization!


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

unoarcher said:


> I will start an archery organization where everyone can wear/not wear whatever they want. Who's with me? :shade:


I'm pretty sure IBO and NFAA are already way ahead of you on that one.


----------



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

VaDeerHunter said:


> I have another take on this from a completely different angle. I am a Sales Engineer that works in the TV Broadcast Industry. I also do freelance work for production, primarily sports. The fundamental rule is if you are in the truck you can wear casual clothes that are not "how might you say" provocative. Outside, if you are off camera (meaning your not going to wind up in a shot) casual clothes that reflect a businesslike approach. If you can wind up on camera (or in a still shot) you wear long pants, collard shirt and what would be deemed and appropriate for public display. USA Archery is connected to the world, and for good reason wants to show a good reflection of its organization and its members just like the TV networks do. Dress is perception to a lot of people. Appropriate attire is some times subjective. I was shooting this week and also doing "Press Photographs" for the shoot. Those photos could wind up almost anywhere, so looking good for the camera is a reflection of the organization and the participants. USA Archery has an image it wants to project and image has a lot to do with respect and more importantly increased membership and archery awareness to the public. I hope someday that CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX and ESPN might have some showing of archery competition in prime time. Its just an opinion I hope might resonate with everyone. Think of it this way, most state game departments now discourage having a dead deer hung out where the public can see. Main reason is they want the public perception of hunting to be about the upside of the sport. What you wear says a lot about you and your sport. Ever notice how when pro basketball players are all dressed to the 9's when they get off a bus? As one of my local pastors says, "not a sermon, just a thought."


I completely agree with this sentiment. My issue with the rule is not that they have one but that it is so poorly written it cannot be fairly enforced. See the post #70 "What is denim? by warfbow. I can do the same exercise with camo too..."what is camo". There are no lines no distinctions. they are vague "ideas" that they want them enforced but when you have the possibility that you can throw someone out over it well that just opens the door for abuse. 

I would much rather it be a policy and not a rule. One that says. "USArchery is interested in portraying a professional clean image and as such we highly discourage clothing that is worn frayed or in poor condition. It is our preference that participants attempt to wear nice slacks of neutral colors and avoid bright or garish patterns. Due to the public's propensity to conflate hunting with all shooting sports we would also like to avoid any confusion that might arise from our participants wearing or using equipment that is otherwise likely to be used for hunting. Although you are not likely to be excused or disqualified for not following this policy we expect our judges to make it clear that your choices are not in line with the ideals of the USArchery. 

Now if that's what the policy and rules said than we all would feel justified in saying hey man that really isn't in line with what USArchery is trying to do next time can you leave the camo shirt at home? In this way no one is excluded from participation and the policy can be implemented even at the grass roots level. The image USArchery wants is supported and self correcting and by the time anyone gets to the national or international stages it's well understood what the expectation is. If someone shows up at a championship event dressed like a commando send them out to Target or Walmart to get something appropriate to wear. 

OK that's it I'm sure I've whipped the hell out of this dead horse 1.m dropping the microphone and walking off stage.
:deadhorse


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

b0w_bender said:


> I would much rather it be a policy and not a rule. One that says. "USArchery is interested in portraying a professional clean image and as such we highly discourage clothing that is worn frayed or in poor condition. It is our preference that participants attempt to wear nice slacks of neutral colors and avoid bright or garish patterns. Due to the public's propensity to conflate hunting with all shooting sports we would also like to avoid any confusion that might arise from our participants wearing or using equipment that is otherwise likely to be used for hunting. Although you are not likely to be excused or disqualified for not following this policy *we expect our judges to make it clear that your choices are not in line with the ideals of the USArchery. *
> 
> Now if that's what the policy and rules said than we all would feel justified in saying hey man that really isn't in line with what USArchery is trying to do next time can you leave the camo shirt at home? In this way no one is excluded from participation and the policy can be implemented even at the grass roots level. The image USArchery wants is supported and self correcting and by the time anyone gets to the national or international stages it's well understood what the expectation is. If someone shows up at a championship event dressed like a commando send them out to Target or Walmart to get something appropriate to wear.


I gotta say I don't think it should be the judges job to give the stink eye to people who are within the USAA rules. That is a USAA public policy matter, something for PR people not official judges in their capacity as judges. It's fine for USAA to say "please don't" on the web, or in the tournament flyer, but that isn't a judging matter. If they really want people to not wear bright colors or what not they need to roll back the rules to what they were, with required colors.

As for camo, "oh noes!" USAA doesn't want your hunting stink to be associated with their target archery events. Sorry, USAA, but bows are weapons. But, to be fair, the "stink" that is associated with outdoor target archery, as opposed to indoor, field or 3D, is military archery - slaughtering people en masse at a distance, a long time ago. The long distances of outdoor target archery are inherited from the ancient traditions of practice for military archery, not hunting. So, military clothing such as beret's banned? Maybe patrol caps? Solid color BDU pants? OD? Kahki? :dontknow: (came from the military)  (Hopefully, none of the above.)


----------



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

i dont see what the big deal is. They dont want you in jeans or camo at a sanctioned tournament. The camo is so its not lumped in with hunting. They want it to be seen as Target archery. Not kiiling something. 

The no jeans is they dont want you to look casual like you just walk in off the street or are at an everyday thing. They want you in sports attire, clean cut. 

Personally i love that most of the World cup teams wear color polo shirts with cool vibrant colors, and nice pants/shorts/ athletic wear. Some of the teams have great outfits. Mexico, and Korea are always dressed very nice. USAA and WA are promoting archery as a sport and athletic function. Not something done in jeans. I dont recall going to any track and field meet and seeing pole vaulters running in jeans. I dont see cross country runners wearing camo. 

Thats not a part of the function. I think most of the people who have a problem with the dress code, are hobbyists to the sport and do not seriously compete. Since the participation is casual, they want the clothing to be casual. That is for a local or small shoot, a recreational fun shoot. Not for a regional or National tournament with ranking points and countries honor at stake. For archers who seriously compete, this is a non issue. 

Typically i feel the USA team looks like the ball catchers at a tennis match, or someone parking your car at the valet. I feel the dress could be better. 

Why do we always have t-shirts and a ball cap? 

If you want to compete in archery and wear jeans and camo and shirts that say " im with stupid" ... there are tournaments where you can do that. 

USAA sanctioned and World Archery sanctioned are not those.

You think pro golfing doesnt have a dress code? Ever see NBA guys giving interviews or traveling to a game? Thousand dollar custom made suits. Its all part of the image the sport wants to portray. If you dont want to participate, thats fine. 

Not everyone agrees that jeans or camo are proper attire for sport functions. Unless you're as hillbilly from the south. ( and i can say that being i was born in Atlanta, grew up in the south, still speak with a southern accent and still have family in several southern hillbilly states). Which makes nationals at Decatur perfect for visiting family back home. 


Chris


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I think most of the people who have a problem with the dress code, are hobbyists to the sport and do not seriously compete. Since the participation is casual, they want the clothing to be casual. That is for a local or small shoot, a recreational fun shoot. Not for a regional or National tournament with ranking points and countries honor at stake. For archers who seriously compete, this is a non issue.


Boom!


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

chrstphr said:


> i dont see what the big deal is. They dont want you in jeans or camo at a sanctioned tournament. The camo is so its not lumped in with hunting. They want it to be seen as Target archery. Not kiiling something.
> 
> The no jeans is they dont want you to look casual like you just walk in off the street or are at an everyday thing. They want you in sports attire, clean cut.
> 
> ...


Agree.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Boom!


agree.


----------



## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

chrstphr said:


> i dont see what the big deal is.


Me either. Great post. 

I think the reactions are also reflections of personality types.

Today, while talking about our impending dress code change at the range, I brought up this subject to a couple of staff members. One reacted with how to find loopholes in the rules, wanting to rebel just for the heck of it. The other took the time to explain the importance of a professional image to the loophole guy. 

Loophole guy thinks of himself as a serious OR archer. Professional guy is a bow hunting, compound type archer. 

Just when you thought it was all figured out.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Every other year when the state indoor tournament is in Tulsa, there's a very large, very overweight, very hairy shooter who shows up and shoots in muddy boots, dirty jeans, and a baggy sleeveless tanktop. To say it's "not pretty" is the understatement of the millennium. That's not the face of archery I want being broadcast to the world - and it's not the view I want to have in front of me for 3 hours while I'm shooting, either. If that makes me elitist, then pass the Grey Poupon.


----------



## Sosius (Feb 5, 2014)

I can't believe this is "a thing." It's common courtesy that you dress the way your host or hostess would like. You can be a rebel on your own time, but if you are invited somewhere, or if you attend an event with a dress code, dress appropriately. Geez.


----------



## PatriciaSTown (Apr 8, 2015)

Actually the reason behind this blue color is its visible spectrum. So you must wear green or red.


----------

