# Shibuya ultima sight block thread is plastic



## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

Hmm I don't own a shibuya but I doubt it would strip. The Shibuya Ultima has a reputation for being one of the best and most reliable sights money can buy! I wouldn't worry about it.


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

Its actually delrin...a very strong teflon ploymer. I've had my ultima for 3 years without an issue...nor do I expect one.


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> I have had my shibuya ultima rc carbon sight for a about a month and i have noticed that the thread on the sight block is made of plastic so it makes nervous that i will strip the plastic thread since every time i am done shooting i remove the sight block and put back on when i am going to shoot again. I havaent had any problems with my sight so far but i was just curious if anyone has stripped the plastic thread on the sight block or if there is any good advice to prevent it from stripping.


I have heard of one stripping when used by a very young archer who tried to wind the sight block down past the limits.

I doubt that the plastic would strip in normal use -- just keep your sight in the case it cam in when you're not using it to keep it clean.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

baller said:


> Its actually delrin...a very strong teflon ploymer. I've had my ultima for 3 years without an issue...nor do I expect one.


So when i slide the block on should i wiggle the block a little just to make sure it is sitting properly on the threads? or would that ruin the threads?


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

baller said:


> Its actually delrin...a very strong teflon ploymer. I've had my ultima for 3 years without an issue...nor do I expect one.


I've taken these sights completely apart a couple of times now. The threaded material in the sight block actually looks like Delrin AF. Delrin is a trade name for polyoxymethylene. Delrin AF is Delrin impregnated with Teflon, to give the material slicker (non-stick) properties. The AF stands for Anti-Friction. I've used this material many times. It is relatively strong, tough, and wear resistant, as far as plastics go. The threaded portion looks rather long, and I doubt there will be much problem with it in normal use.


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> So when i slide the block on should i wiggle the block a little just to make sure it is sitting properly on the threads? or would that ruin the threads?


Sure-Locs work essentially the same way. What I do, after I slide the block to a new position, is to give a vertical adjustment knob a 1/4 turn and then back to make sure the threads are fully seated.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

DK Lieu said:


> Sure-Locs work essentially the same way. What I do, after I slide the block to a new position, is to give a vertical adjustment knob a 1/4 turn and then back to make sure the threads are fully seated.


 Oh so sure locs use Delrin AF too? do they not use metal on metal because there would be to much friction?


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## FlyingWatchmake (Apr 15, 2012)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> Oh so sure locs use Delrin AF too? do they not use metal on metal because there would be to much friction?


I think the sure locs use stainless steel thread with a brass split nut on the sight block.. As long as everything is seated when you turn the knobs there shouldn't be much wear, as long as the thread is clean! 

T


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

FlyingWatchmake said:


> I think the sure locs use stainless steel thread with a brass split nut on the sight block.. As long as everything is seated when you turn the knobs there shouldn't be much wear, as long as the thread is clean!
> 
> T


oh okay thanks! but one more question, do you know why shibuya chose to us Delrin instead of Stainless Steel?


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Eight years of performance with this construction with the lowest issue rate in the industry indicates their engineering decisions are good ones.


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> oh okay thanks! but one more question, do you know why shibuya chose to us Delrin instead of Stainless Steel?


Can't speak for Shibuya, but Delrin is self-lubricating and stainless is not. Lubricant holds dust particles, and outdoor dust typically contains particles harder than steel. If it were stainless it would need to be cleaned and re-lubricated regularly. In my experience (three Ultimas in our household with a cumulative total of >1500 shots/week over 1 1/2 years) the current design requires zero maintenance. 

Stainless is harder than Delrin, but you don't need the hardness in that particular joint. If your aperture weighed a pound steel might be a better choice.


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## arrowyn (Jul 4, 2013)

Shibuya is good. 

I have the shibuya double click, which is lower end but quality than the shibuya ultimate. I did the ultimate Olympic fail, (which I'd excel at if it were a sport), forgot to tighten my finger sling. On the only time my unstabilized bow ever swung forwards (and down like olympic bows do in the hands of an expert, most of the time it sits in the sling limbs vertical) and limbs went horizontal. The sight kissed the concrete. RIght on the housing for the aperture block and all. I was so pissed off I didn't know whether to cry or scream. 

But it worked fine and still is working after. To get a good example how solid that hit was, is a week later, the wood putty epoxy used to hold the dowels for the housing that seat the screws for the extension bar on the riser (whew say that 5X fast, the riser is a classic wooden takedown recurve), cracked and I found out when the sight was rattling, as each shot the dowels (and housing) was pushing out. 

Note: the rattling was caused by the loose dowels, not the sight. 

My cartel sight that the dual click replaced, broke (I was sitting on a bench and my bow across my knees) feel off from around waist height, and hit the 'crete, the plastic housing cracked like san andreas on a good 10.0 . ) I epoxied the cartel back together, but it cracked around the epoxy bond lol. 

google shibuya vs sureloc or sureloc vs shibuya if you want more . . . but for me shibuya works and for the bow upgrade will get the ultima because the dual click is just that AWESOME.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

agillator said:


> Can't speak for Shibuya, but Delrin is self-lubricating and stainless is not. Lubricant holds dust particles, and outdoor dust typically contains particles harder than steel. If it were stainless it would need to be cleaned and re-lubricated regularly. In my experience (three Ultimas in our household with a cumulative total of >1500 shots/week over 1 1/2 years) the current design requires zero maintenance.
> 
> Stainless is harder than Delrin, but you don't need the hardness in that particular joint. If your aperture weighed a pound steel might be a better choice.


I know what you mean. i just think if it was steel i would be even more confident than it being delrin even though it is a strong material it is still easier to strip than steel.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

arrowyn said:


> Shibuya is good.
> 
> I have the shibuya double click, which is lower end but quality than the shibuya ultimate. I did the ultimate Olympic fail, (which I'd excel at if it were a sport), forgot to tighten my finger sling. On the only time my unstabilized bow ever swung forwards (and down like olympic bows do in the hands of an expert, most of the time it sits in the sling limbs vertical) and limbs went horizontal. The sight kissed the concrete. RIght on the housing for the aperture block and all. I was so pissed off I didn't know whether to cry or scream.
> 
> ...


Wow thats sounds real promising! sure locs just look a bit more sturdy in the aspect that is it is steel/aluminum or whatever it is. though so far im really happy with my shibuya ultima sight. But online people say that they will rattle more than the shibuyas. oh also another question does, does any of your bolts that hold the extention to the mounting block thing on your riser ever come loose? i have noticed my bolt comes loose quite a lot. so how tight should i make it? as tight as it can go?


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

I had 2 surelocs, both elevation blocks got loose after a good load of shooting with compound.
than switched to Shibuya Ultima, two CP's hold well for many years lot of shooting and now the CPX is the latest and greatest.
I like the Shibuya design over others way better, easier to adjust/tighten, since new CPX only once I turned the screws for wedges maybe 10% of the full turn and more than 30k shots with it.....


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

HikerDave said:


> I have heard of one stripping when used by a very young archer who tried to wind the sight block down past the limits.
> 
> I doubt that the plastic would strip in normal use -- just keep your sight in the case it cam in when you're not using it to keep it clean.


yeah I had a newer archer do that. She was shooting a NFAA field for the first time and not aware that she was canting her bow on a hill so she kept screwing the windage unit past where it was designed to go. LAS has the replacement parts (she lost the ball detente and spring) and I will see what I can do to fix it.

panicked kids are the main cause of sight issues. Others have busted the plastic housing on the dual klicks doing the same sort of idiocy


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

Jim C said:


> yeah I had a newer archer do that. She was shooting a NFAA field for the first time and not aware that she was canting her bow on a hill so she kept screwing the windage unit past where it was designed to go. LAS has the replacement parts (she lost the ball detente and spring) and I will see what I can do to fix it.
> 
> panicked kids are the main cause of sight issues. Others have busted the plastic housing on the dual klicks doing the same sort of idiocy


Well we were all kids at one point in our lives and i bet we all did something not very intelligent. or we broke something because we were not very cautious.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

bigHUN said:


> I had 2 surelocs, both elevation blocks got loose after a good load of shooting with compound.
> than switched to Shibuya Ultima, two CP's hold well for many years lot of shooting and now the CPX is the latest and greatest.
> I like the Shibuya design over others way better, easier to adjust/tighten, since new CPX only once I turned the screws for wedges maybe 10% of the full turn and more than 30k shots with it.....


So are the cpx the same as the ultima rc besides the sight block being a bit more bulky to support the scope? when the sure locs loosened up could you not just tighten it up? I have never held a sure loc sight in my hand but in pictures the sure loc quest x looks so much more bulky and sturdy than the shibuya ultima i have. so why do you think sure locs dont hold up as well? what design brings the sure locs down?


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## arrowyn (Jul 4, 2013)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> Wow thats sounds real promising! sure locs just look a bit more sturdy in the aspect that is it is steel/aluminum or whatever it is. though so far im really happy with my shibuya ultima sight. But online people say that they will rattle more than the shibuyas. oh also another question does, does any of your bolts that hold the extention to the mounting block thing on your riser ever come loose? i have noticed my bolt comes loose quite a lot. so how tight should i make it? as tight as it can go?


In mine I hand tighten it (the counter screws to hold the mounting bracket), less than a quarter to eight turn after it feels tight (its hex and I'm careful about tightening too much), and it never came loose. But I never took the mount off the riser (until the dowels came off in the incident described), and would only remove the slide extension bar mounting screw to slide free the extension bar + remove the aperture block when putting my bow away.

On the shibuya instructions it does say don't click past the limit (they have pictures showing the windage limits). It gets harder to click as it gets closer. 

I know for my beginner (and some intermediate) risers, the way my form is, the windage knob gets to the limit and won't go and I have to gauge it (the aperture is hidden partly by the riser), and I could see someone trying to adjust it so the riser won't block it but its at the limit, and over do iit. On the better rises, they are shaped so this isn't a problem.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

wait are you talking about the one that you tighten everytime you put your boow together?


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> So are the cpx the same as the ultima rc besides the sight block being a bit more bulky to support the scope? when the sure locs loosened up could you not just tighten it up? I have never held a sure loc sight in my hand but in pictures the sure loc quest x looks so much more bulky and sturdy than the shibuya ultima i have. so why do you think sure locs dont hold up as well? what design brings the sure locs down?


first of all, the Shibuya elevation block can be completely removed from the vertical bar, it just slides down, so, I have 3 blocks for 3 scopes, all pre-set, I can swap the scopes in a minute and ready to go.
The SureLoc holds the elevation bar on a single screw, if you remove it often after some time will need to overtightening it more and more, this was a design issue and I just wanted to leave it behind.
I guess the compound guys have at least one more similar sight, all these are pretty expensive, if once gets loose, hassle starts.
No one of my Shibuya's got clonked out and I shoot all weather, a lot, with compound.....


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

bigHUN said:


> first of all, the Shibuya elevation block can be completely removed from the vertical bar, it just slides down, so, I have 3 blocks for 3 scopes, all pre-set, I can swap the scopes in a minute and ready to go.
> The SureLoc holds the elevation bar on a single screw, if you remove it often after some time will need to overtightening it more and more, this was a design issue and I just wanted to leave it behind.
> I guess the compound guys have at least one more similar sight, all these are pretty expensive, if once gets loose, hassle starts.
> No one of my Shibuya's got clonked out and I shoot all weather, a lot, with compound.....


oh i see, but isnt it more costly to buy three sight blocks? I thought the sure locs are easier to change the apertures becuaase there is a part that is specifically for the aperature to be removed from, well i know it is at least for the contender


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

>--gt--> said:


> Eight years of performance with this construction with the lowest issue rate in the industry indicates their engineering decisions are good ones.


+1

If I were in the market for a new sight, it would without question be the Shibuya Ultima. I have steered many students toward this sight in the past several years, and they all love it, without exception. 

My Sure-loc Quest-X Athens edition sights were gifts to me from Steve Gibbs himself, which is why I still shoot them. However, if I were forced to say which is a better sight, it would be the Ultima. 

John


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> +1
> 
> If I were in the market for a new sight, it would without question be the Shibuya Ultima. I have steered many students toward this sight in the past several years, and they all love it, without exception.
> 
> ...


oh really? i was reading a lot of threads about sure loc sights and shibuya sights and i came upon some posts that you said the sure loc is a very good sight and you liked the sure loc sights a lot.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Sure locs ARE very good sights, and I do like mine a lot. They have one advantage over the Shibuya in that the aperture holders can be exchanged very easily for about $15 each. Other than that, the edge goes to the Shibuya Ultima for lack of vibration and smoothness, and frankly, cost.

John


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## gregom (Oct 12, 2012)

how does the Axcel Achieve RXl Recurve Sight compare with the Shibuya Ulitma?


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Shibuya is carbon, less weight attached to riser and get one with 9" extension


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

and for the record, if you are shooting a compound, you need to be sure you are using a compound sight.. Sureloc has compound versions, designed to handle all the extra vibration and shock that compounds transmit. I have not looked into it but I'm would be surprised if Shibuya does not also. The recurve sights are generally lighter in weight and will be more prone to vibration problems.

DC


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Just checked and yes Shibuya does have both recurve and compound sights. The compound one is much beefier, and designed to handle the heavier scope instead of a pin or aperture.

RE-Delrin, My dad and I machined and used delrin threaded blocks to create a lift system. Designed to lift several hundred pounds on stainless threaded rods. I stand on this lift all the time.. no issues with stripping those threads as long as you don't use mechanical advantage such as turning the threads past the stops.

DC


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

if im not mistaken i think the difference between the shibuya compoudn sight and the recurve sight is only the sight block. so if that is the only difference and they can still hold up how come sure loc doesnt just use the same extention and elevation bar and just change the sight block like how shibuya makes it that way they dont need as many machines to manufactures the different parts. 

So the advantage of delrin over steel is that it is like automatically lubed and will stay lubed?


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Sure locs ARE very good sights, and I do like mine a lot. They have one advantage over the Shibuya in that the aperture holders can be exchanged very easily for about $15 each. Other than that, the edge goes to the Shibuya Ultima for lack of vibration and smoothness, and frankly, cost.
> 
> John


are they not about the same price? the sure loc contender x is 260 and the shibuya ultima rc standard is 250. the sure loc quest x is 350 and the shibuya ultima rc carbon is 330.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The Contender X is not half the sight that the Ultima RC is, and IMO, the Quest-X is way overpriced.


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> if im not mistaken i think the difference between the shibuya compoudn sight and the recurve sight is only the sight block. so if that is the only difference and they can still hold up how come sure loc doesnt just use the same extention and elevation bar and just change the sight block like how shibuya makes it that way they dont need as many machines to manufactures the different parts.
> 
> So the advantage of delrin over steel is that it is like automatically lubed and will stay lubed?


You are not mistaken. The parts lists show the exact same components. I converted a Shibuya Ultima Carbon from recurve to compound by special-ordering a compound sight block in the matching blue color from Lancaster Archery.

I think that our Phd Mechanical engineer has already explained that delrin is self-lubricating. (That probably means low static friction against steel.) The real advantage is that there's no lubricant to keep and attract dust.

If you are concerned about the use of plastic in the Shibuya sight you could always purchase a Cartel Spectra.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> The Contender X is not half the sight that the Ultima RC is, and IMO, the Quest-X is way overpriced.


oh so why do you tink the contender isnt nearly as good as the Ultima Rc? oh i was watching videos and it seems like some poeple are now switching to the Axcel sights. Like ki bo bae. I think jake kaminski, brady ellison, and jacob wukie use either the Axcel 4500 or the rx. So are those really high tech too? well the rx seems really expensive at 360 on lancaster. Is that sight a lot better than the sure locs as well and are on par with the shibuyas?


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

HikerDave said:


> You are not mistaken. The parts lists show the exact same components. I converted a Shibuya Ultima Carbon from recurve to compound by special-ordering a compound sight block in the matching blue color from Lancaster Archery.
> 
> I think that our Phd Mechanical engineer has already explained that delrin is self-lubricating. (That probably means low static friction against steel.) The real advantage is that there's no lubricant to keep and attract dust.
> 
> If you are concerned about the use of plastic in the Shibuya sight you could always purchase a Cartel Spectra.


great idea! but i thought cartels vibrate a bunch and everything comes loose in a couple shots


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> i was watching videos and it seems like some poeple are now switching to the Axcel sights. Like ki bo bae. I think jake kaminski, brady ellison, and jacob wukie use either the Axcel 4500 or the rx.


Professional archers have to make a living. They shoot what pays the best, so long as it doesn't interfere with their scores. Any of the top sights from Sure-loc, Shibuya, Axcel, or a few other companies will do exactly the same job. So if that's the case, and you're trying to make a living shooting a bow, you go with the sponsor who offers you the most support, plain and simple. It's just part of the business side of this sport, as it is with most sports.

The Sure-loc contender-x is an intermediate sight that requires a locking knob. It is not on par with a sight like the Ultima, nor was it ever intended to be. Good sight? Yes, but my top students are all using better sights.


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

arrowyn said:


> Shibuya is good.
> 
> I have the shibuya double click, which is lower end but quality than the shibuya ultimate. I did the ultimate Olympic fail, (which I'd excel at if it were a sport), forgot to tighten my finger sling. On the only time my unstabilized bow ever swung forwards (and down like olympic bows do in the hands of an expert, most of the time it sits in the sling limbs vertical) and limbs went horizontal. The sight kissed the concrete. RIght on the housing for the aperture block and all. I was so pissed off I didn't know whether to cry or scream.
> 
> ...


Just noticed your profile picture - FFT?


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Professional archers have to make a living. They shoot what pays the best, so long as it doesn't interfere with their scores. Any of the top sights from Sure-loc, Shibuya, Axcel, or a few other companies will do exactly the same job. So if that's the case, and you're trying to make a living shooting a bow, you go with the sponsor who offers you the most support, plain and simple. It's just part of the business side of this sport, as it is with most sports.
> 
> The Sure-loc contender-x is an intermediate sight that requires a locking knob. It is not on par with a sight like the Ultima, nor was it ever intended to be. Good sight? Yes, but my top students are all using better sights.


so Shibuya must sponsor a lot of professional archers. I see so many of them all using Shibuya sights. So if they all do the same how come regular shooters choose a favorite sight, what makes one better than the other. they are all make very precisely and accurately.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

dylpickleeeeeee said:


> great idea! but i thought cartels vibrate a bunch and everything comes loose in a couple shots


Yes, Cartel sights are bad. HikerDave was making a joke. He was saying if you don't trust the Delrin on the Shibuya then you could buy an all metal Cartel piece of crap.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I'm not sure how many archers Shibuya sponsors, but I can tell you that a lot of elite shooters would and do choose their equipment regardless of support because it is that good. Some companies use the business model that if you produce the best products, then you don't have to pay people to use them.


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

TER said:


> Yes, Cartel sights are bad. HikerDave was making a joke. He was saying if you don't trust the Delrin on the Shibuya then you could buy an all metal Cartel piece of crap.


haha i wonder if any professionals use cartel sights


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## dylpickleeeeeee (Jun 6, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> I'm not sure how many archers Shibuya sponsors, but I can tell you that a lot of elite shooters would and do choose their equipment regardless of support because it is that good. Some companies use the business model that if you produce the best products, then you don't have to pay people to use them.


haha so shibuya gets poeple to use them and they dont even have to pay the archers?


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