# Who still shoots aluminums?



## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

Well I'm waiting on my Hoyt Tribute that should be here mid week I hope... I've decided to totally change gears this year which I decided while on my way back from Colorado after elk hunting for a few weeks. I first decided that under most hunting conditions fingers would be more beneficial than a release. After hunting with a recurve for 18 years then going to a compound for good last year due to shoulder problems I miss the feel of the string I guess but I know I have more control with fingers as well. 
So I started off this year with a Carbon Spyder Turbo with deep six shafts and although I liked the bow it just suit me. And since speed doesn't consume my every waking moment like some guys I'm not driven by my decision on the fastest bows on the market. So I've decided my new setup will be a Tribute set at around 64-65lbs, NAP pluger rest, XX75 2216s, 125gr Magnus Killer Bees and IQ sights and maybe a stabilizer I'll wait and see how it feels without one. 
I feel this setup will be more than enough for Elk and will be a no frills but bullet proof setup. I went to draw on a bull and a cow two separate times and my Injexion shaft had got between my QAD and the riser by the way I had my bow laying against a log and against my thigh. I'm not blaming my setup but shooter error and that's what I'm try to decrease. 
So the aluminum question. There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of carbons are tougher than aluminums but a well tuned bow with aluminums is a deadly combo for sure. In my early compound days till about 1997 I shot just aluminums even when I started shooting a recurve in 1994. Then I switched to wood shafts for years then as my shoulders started giving me fits I switched back for a couple years then to carbons as my weight went down on my recurves and longbows. But for some reason I've always liked aluminum arrows for their weight. But for some reason and TV being one of the biggest reason not many people seem to be shooting them these days. I know that Easton has dropped their XX78 line I'm sure due to sales. So who still shoots them?


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## JMLOWE (Apr 19, 2011)

I do on everything except my 3D rig. Big line cutters indoors, 2213s for field, and 2314s out of my hunting rig. Not many of us still around that shoot aluminum but honestly love them.


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## shadowhunter (Oct 12, 2003)

depends on which bow I am shooting but I still love em too


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## big cypress (Jul 31, 2006)

bought some easton carbon1 arrows and shot them .......for about a week . sold them and won't be buying any more carbons . . .peace


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## Metaleer (Jul 17, 2013)

Have shot X7 and XX75 for over 35 years. Tried XX75 in 2114 as a practice arrow and pleasantly discovered that they are perfect out of my Protec at 50 lbs and 29" long with 4" feathers, and 100 grain point. Bare shaft shoots exactly like fletched arrows at 20 yards. My hunting shaft is 2317 at 65 lbs and have taken deer out to 45 yards. They have always shot well for me both target and hunting.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Only indoors when I need something heavy, but even then I've got carbons that also work.

Anything you can do with an aluminum you can do better with a carbon. Nobody is winning anything with aluminum for a reason.

-Grant


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## buckrut5 (Jun 28, 2010)

I have always shot aluminums, shot 2315s out of a PSE Dakota set at 65# since 2003.
Due to a shoulder surgery in feb. bought a Hoyt Tribute last month and have it set at 57#. 
Can't wait to get in the woods to try it out on whitetails.


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## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

Grant,
I have to disagree that a carbon will do it better. A dead whitetail is a dead whitetail. You would be hard pressed to find a carbon as straight as a X7 or XX78. Although we couldn't tell the difference the better statement I believe is far fetched and I've shot probably every modern shaft material made. It's harder to get clearance with carbons than aluminums with a plunger rest is one of the main reasons for me switching back on my finger setup.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Hunting is the least accurate means of measuring performance since literally anything will do.

Look at competition. Nobody is using aluminum anywhere but indoors and even that is coming to an end now. There simply isn't anything that carbon won't do better.

-Grant


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## Jesse Schultz (Sep 11, 2013)

grantmac said:


> Hunting is the least accurate means of measuring performance since literally anything will do.
> 
> Look at competition. Nobody is using aluminum anywhere but indoors and even that is coming to an end now. There simply isn't anything that carbon won't do better.
> 
> -Grant


I'm not disagreeing with you, but. I have a question. You are stating that I or you will shoot better with a carbon. Grant have you ever tested that theory? Taken one bow, one carbon, and one aluminum arrow. Set up at say 30 yards and shot 6 shots with the one carbon and six with the one aluminum.
I always thought the argument was that carbon last longer. Then I hear that you get better penetration with carbon because they are skinnier. Which is false the broad head makes a hole. The arrow is thinner than the broad head.
Now again, I'm not saying your wrong. I would just like to know if anyone has ever done this. Now I know you would probably need two different bows to do it. With the weight of the arrows, but?
Now here is my question. With a 2002 Hoyt with XT2000 limbs, and the cam and a halfs pulling 57 lbs. What weight aluminum Eastons would I use?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I couldn't build an aluminum arrow light enough to be competitive in my category outdoors. My competition arrows are under 270gr with over 15% FOC, you can't do that with anything but carbon.

Indoors I've shot with both and the carbon was more forgiving due to the higher FOC. The aluminum may have grouped slightly tighter but the carbons shot higher scores. Outdoors there really wasn't any comparison, the aluminum can't compete.

As for penetration: higher FOC and a thinner shaft most certainly will out penetrate a thicker arrow with a lower FOC. I've tested that in block targets enough to satisfy my own curiosity.

-Grant


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## crazyhoyt (May 30, 2011)

I still shoot them, and have no plans on changing for hunting. There's no doubt that carbon has its benifits, but Iv never noticed any improvement on my scores while shooting them. I use both for different applications from time to time but find myself to be more confident in Aluminum. 

Hunting= Hoyt Alpha Burner, 55#, 26" DL, Easton 2117 XX75s. 575 Grains, Magnus Stinger Broad heads.
3D= Hoyt Alpha Elite 55#, 26" DL, Easton X7 Eclipse 2212
Indoor= Hoyt Vantage Elite. X7 2712


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

For indoors I still shoot Aluminum, as I need to get the arrow weight pretty heavy for my point on to be 20 yards (really 21). With me shooting 48#'s on the fingers, even with a high anchor I need that 650 Gr arrow at 34". Not many carbons can I get that. Outdoors and hunting, well for field and 3D I use ACE's or ACC's, depending on the bow, and while they are a bit heavier it works for me. For hunting, I have yet to find anything that works better than ACC's for me.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

I'll throw my vote in with the aluminums. I've been moving steadily back to the Easton XX75 series over the past few years. I've had a solid experience with the Easton A/C/C Pro Hunter Series, in every category except price. ~$13.30 for the A/C/Cs vice ~$5 for a standard XX75 in bare shafts from Lancaster (understand prices may vary depending on dealer, sales or third party purchases). Not to go on a tangent, but I looked for the switch for the same reason I threw my Gillette Mach 3 razor in the back of the drawer and took up wet shaving with a DE Safety razor.... the price of the cartridges made me feel like a bloody fool parting with his money each time I paid exorbitant prices for replacement cartridge packs. DE blades run about $.03 each, and provide a far better shave experience.... plus the online community of Wet Shavers is a great group of guys to be involved with and learn from. (Sound familiar, Finger shooters?). 

I tip my hat to the competitive shooters who must micro-tune to stay competitive, but for the backwoods adventurer and the "just happy for the company" winter league guy the aluminums are an excellent performing selection. Very straight, tough, easy to build (and rebuild) and safe. Once I get a respectable tune I see no performance difference, and the aluminums have re-opened the joys of stump shooting, as I'll take far more adventurous shots when I'm not cringing at the thought of losing or shattering a $14 arrow. 

Not meaning to sound miserly, or that aluminums are the poor man's choice. I simply find that aluminums are classics that far outperform their price and have a legitimate spot in the sport. If Easton would bring back the Autumn Orange XX75 shaft and Hoyt would re-introduce the ProTec LX Pro bow, I would purr like a cat. Until then, I'll wander the catacombs of the classifieds and Ebay with many of you, hoping to find the string and the way out to the Old School.


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## big cypress (Jul 31, 2006)

i like the platinum plus arrows and they are more capable than i , the shooter , am . as an aside , i can't believe how many times i've read how wonderful the protec lx pro bow is . . . .since i sold mine couple months ago . . .peace


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## DonMateo (Oct 26, 2012)

I shoot XX75s and I love them. I bought some easton carbon heritage but after getting my groupings down and having some of the ends split, and then looking at videos of what happens when a carbon arrow explodes into your hand, I switched back to aluminium. And I would never go back. I agree with some of the other guys here on cost as well. Arrows are a consumable but you should be able to use them a lot. After whacking a few ends together of carbon arrows and splitting some and having to retire them out of safety reasons your happy half hour of archery practice cost you 30 or 45 bucks. With aluminium arrows they rarely break, never split and only sometimes bend. If you screw one up it costs you US$5 and not $13 or more.


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## DAVID S. (Sep 14, 2006)

Oldruffedhunter said:


> Well I'm waiting on my Hoyt Tribute that should be here mid week I hope... I've decided to totally change gears this year which I decided while on my way back from Colorado after elk hunting for a few weeks. I first decided that under most hunting conditions fingers would be more beneficial than a release. After hunting with a recurve for 18 years then going to a compound for good last year due to shoulder problems I miss the feel of the string I guess but I know I have more control with fingers as well.
> So I started off this year with a Carbon Spyder Turbo with deep six shafts and although I liked the bow it just suit me. And since speed doesn't consume my every waking moment like some guys I'm not driven by my decision on the fastest bows on the market. So I've decided my new setup will be a Tribute set at around 64-65lbs, NAP pluger rest, XX75 2216s, 125gr Magnus Killer Bees and IQ sights and maybe a stabilizer I'll wait and see how it feels without one.
> I feel this setup will be more than enough for Elk and will be a no frills but bullet proof setup. I went to draw on a bull and a cow two separate times and my Injexion shaft had got between my QAD and the riser by the way I had my bow laying against a log and against my thigh. I'm not blaming my setup but shooter error and that's what I'm try to decrease.
> So the aluminum question. There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of carbons are tougher than aluminums but a well tuned bow with aluminums is a deadly combo for sure. In my early compound days till about 1997 I shot just aluminums even when I started shooting a recurve in 1994. Then I switched to wood shafts for years then as my shoulders started giving me fits I switched back for a couple years then to carbons as my weight went down on my recurves and longbows. But for some reason I've always liked aluminum arrows for their weight. But for some reason and TV being one of the biggest reason not many people seem to be shooting them these days. I know that Easton has dropped their XX78 line I'm sure due to sales. So who still shoots them?


I like alum. Your setup sounds great to me. What is your draw length?


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## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

My draw is set at 29"


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

2317s here


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Pierre Couture said:


> 2317s here


I've got a few of those waiting to get built out. Going to try them on my 80# Protec. What set up are you using them on?


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## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm shooting 2317 71#@29". My shafts are 30" bop. They bareshaft great off my Tribute with 145gr up front.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Oldruffedhunter said:


> I'm shooting 2317 71#@29". My shafts are 30" bop. They bareshaft great off my Tribute with 145gr up front.


Thanks. This has me wondering now. I would almost think a 2317 would be stiff for that setup. Perhaps I will only build out a small number, and see how they fly.


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## BLGreenway (Jan 18, 2014)

I shoot 29.5" 2315's from my 18 year old 72# Hoyt Prostar Legacy. I use 125 grain points and broadheads.


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

grantmac said:


> I couldn't build an aluminum arrow light enough to be competitive in my category outdoors. My competition arrows are under 270gr with over 15% FOC, you can't do that with anything but carbon.
> 
> Indoors I've shot with both and the carbon was more forgiving due to the higher FOC. The aluminum may have grouped slightly tighter but the carbons shot higher scores. Outdoors there really wasn't any comparison, the aluminum can't compete.
> 
> ...


I think when I want an X7 , its to cut some lines for a higher score. Due to a fatter shaft. I rebuilt my 48 inch Joy Valley Archery Astro bow recently to shoot NFAA Bowhunter class. And have not picked an arrow. I know I will need to tune around a 400 spine for it. If I want to really compete out to 80 yards without sights how can I pick the X7 ? A fatter carbon shaft in my area where wind is not a problem would be fine on a State level. I would pick a Fat boy shaft or CE line Jammer because I know shooting a 500 field round with a 25% heavier shaft will be more challenging for someone with my long draw. But for hunting I would pick a 2314 for the weight. A young archer should pick carbons but a seasoned hunter should use what he knows well.


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## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

I meant 2315's. They are 340 spine. The 2317's are spined out at 300 which would be stiff for this set up.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Oldruffedhunter said:


> I meant 2315's. They are 340 spine. The 2317's are spined out at 300 which would be stiff for this set up.


Makes sense. The guys over on the Trad forum have a couple "aluminum arrow" threads going now, seems to be the topic of the day. Not surprising to hear a lot of them favor aluminums, as well. The general complaint being the local archery shops don't carry aluminums, or carry a very small shaft selection. It would be a fun experiment to put on a GoPro and walk into several local shops and ask, "I'm looking to buy a Hoyt Tribute with matching Easton XX75 shafts.... but would like to test shoot what you have on hand before I make the final decision." Later, make a drinking game out of watching the video: 

"We'll have to order that." = 1 drink
"A Hoyt what?" = 2 drinks
"We don't carry those." = 3 drinks
"I think Easton stopped making aluminums." = 4 drinks
"You might try eBay." = 5 drinks

(Just kidding. The local shop owners are nearly always awesome to work with, but the old school guys have to give them fits).


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## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

Yeah 
I had to buy my Tribute unseen or unshot. I just done some research and read and looked and decided that it would work. As far a arrows go I've had to order those because the shop here said they would have to do the same plus I can get them as cheap or cheaper than they can order them. 
On a side story about the aluminums my wifes cousin who is 22 has never shot an aluminum arrow until yesterday. I have some that he shot off his bow and he couldn't believe how quite they were vs his carbons. Well he ended up switching his setup yesterday and I retuned his bow and he killed a doe last night with them. His pin gap changed very little I only had to move his 40 yard about 2 inches and his 30 maybe an inch. The shaft was buried in the ground about 6 inches and was still straight. I think he's hooked.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Oldruffedhunter said:


> Yeah
> I had to buy my Tribute unseen or unshot. I just done some research and read and looked and decided that it would work. As far a arrows go I've had to order those because the shop here said they would have to do the same plus I can get them as cheap or cheaper than they can order them.
> On a side story about the aluminums my wifes cousin who is 22 has never shot an aluminum arrow until yesterday. I have some that he shot off his bow and he couldn't believe how quite they were vs his carbons. Well he ended up switching his setup yesterday and I retuned his bow and he killed a doe last night with them. His pin gap changed very little I only had to move his 40 yard about 2 inches and his 30 maybe an inch. The shaft was buried in the ground about 6 inches and was still straight. I think he's hooked.


Now THAT'S a good news story! Congrats to the gentlemen for putting meat on the table and making a good choice for the future! 

I've bought my last two Hoyts on faith. Both the '03 ProTec and '12 Tribute were "by order only." Honestly, no regrets. Both have been great bows. I've often joked that the last Hoyt Montega was being shot by Amelia Earhart, and the only way to get one was to find her and talk her out of it.... well, she showed up on eBay this week. I've finally speared the white whale and picked up a Montega. With some luck, it will arrive in about a week. I'll set it next to a couple other classic Hoyts I don't have time to shoot (Aspen and another ProTec), but I'm playing the long game here. Retirement is on the horizon, and I've been prepping the wife for the idea that retirement life is going to be bending a bow or bending a fly rod, so I'm gambling on the idea I'll catch up for lost opportunities.


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

Paul68 said:


> I've got a few of those waiting to get built out. Going to try them on my 80# Protec. What set up are you using them on?


63 lbs Pro Sport Shadow, 31" DL with 125 gr Montecs


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Pierre Couture said:


> 63 lbs Pro Sport Shadow, 31" DL with 125 gr Montecs


Again I've failed at this game. I would have gone thru a few series of spines before guessing a 2317 for that setup. Not to start another arrow spine thread, but an 80# ProTec with a Cam .5 & 29.5" DL, and Easton 2317 shafts cut at 30.5", with a 125 gr front end... shooting 3 under tab. The tune charts seem to think that's a good start point, but the experience here has me worried I'll be posting some shafts in the classified section. Thoughts anyone?


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## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

If it was accuwheels I'd say the 2317 would work at 80 but you might be under spined with those cams.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Oldruffedhunter said:


> If it was accuwheels I'd say the 2317 would work at 80 but you might be under spined with those cams.


Thanks for the reply. I'll work up a couple and try the bareshaft and paper, to see where I'm at. The 80#s is probably a bit over spined for my shoulders these days, and I may dial it back. The body is a traitor.


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## riverboat (Nov 24, 2007)

I love my aluminum - super straight, easier to fletch helical, better clearance on finger rests, and I just generally like the feel of them. I understand that carbon are probably more accurate in most conditions. And if that was the only factor, I would shoot a short bow with a release. But I'm old and like a long axle, the feel of the string on my fingers and the look of the "telephone poles" on the string.  They zip through an elk just dandy as well.


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## shadowhunter (Oct 12, 2003)

2317's ? I have not seen that choice before. How does it compare to a 2219?


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## DozRdeer2 (Nov 8, 2012)

2413's with 100 grain heads. Started using them for 3D years ago, and have been hunting with them ever since.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

Paul68 said:


> I've often joked that the last Hoyt Montega was being shot by Amelia Earhart, and the only way to get one was to find her and talk her out of it.... well, she showed up on eBay this week. I've finally speared the white whale and picked up a Montega.


Looks like Amelia is getting rid of all kinds of stuff lately. And you boys thought I was joking! Ha!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/re...ia-earharts-lost-plane/ar-BBbUXhn?ocid=ASUDHP


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## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

Well she sure did. I stumble on 1000s and I do mean 1000s of the old XX78s. I'm waiting on to see how many of what sizes the shop has before I help them to start liquidating them. I have reserved 6 dz of 2315s and 3 dz of 2317s which should last me a while.


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## BLGreenway (Jan 18, 2014)

Oldruffedhunter said:


> Well she sure did. I stumble on 1000s and I do mean 1000s of the old XX78s. I'm waiting on to see how many of what sizes the shop has before I help them to start liquidating them. I have reserved 6 dz of 2315s and 3 dz of 2317s which should last me a while.


Oldruffedhunter, I don't know if this is appropriate or not, and I don't know if this particular shop will be selling them to just anyone, but I could also be interested in a dozen or two of the XX78 2315's. I actually found a dozen and a half recently in a store in Illinois. I don't know what price your shop will be selling them, so that would matter to me, but obviously, they are hard to find at this point and at some point, they will be impossible to find. If this is something you think is appropriate, I could pm you and give you my contact info. Thanks.


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## Oldruffedhunter (Aug 3, 2008)

As soon as I find out all the details I'll let you know. Like I said I don't know the prices yet. I just so happen to deliver there and asked if they had any aluminum arrows and I walked up stairs with the owner and WOW!!!! Was my first thought. Bins full so I'm gonna get enough to keep me instock for a while.


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## w8indq (Dec 9, 2013)

Hey guys here's a question I shoot a 37" new breed cyborg at 62# would x7 2316's be a good start?


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## BLGreenway (Jan 18, 2014)

Oldruffedhunter said:


> As soon as I find out all the details I'll let you know. Like I said I don't know the prices yet. I just so happen to deliver there and asked if they had any aluminum arrows and I walked up stairs with the owner and WOW!!!! Was my first thought. Bins full so I'm gonna get enough to keep me instock for a while.


Ok. Thanks.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

blgreenway said:


> oldruffedhunter, i don't know if this is appropriate or not, and i don't know if this particular shop will be selling them to just anyone, but i could also be interested in a dozen or two of the xx78 2315's. I actually found a dozen and a half recently in a store in illinois. I don't know what price your shop will be selling them, so that would matter to me, but obviously, they are hard to find at this point and at some point, they will be impossible to find. If this is something you think is appropriate, i could pm you and give you my contact info. Thanks.


x 2


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## Banana Tree (Jul 14, 2014)

Aluminum shafts offer far more choices. The shafts we just built for my wife (1516 aluminum, 75 gr tips) are 20 grains lighter than the carbon arrows (GT 500, 75 grain tips) that we were using. Due to the mulititude of choices in 15, 16 and 17/64 diameter, spine matching can be optimal for speed or strength, which ever is required. Speed for target shooting, strength for hunting, obviously. AND, a damaged aluminum shaft can be used later for rabbits or whatever, the carbon shafts when damaged can't even be used for bong material.

My complaint, or comment on aluminum is that it can be more complicated to match spines, particularly to optimize weight. I calculate dynamic spine for various draw lengths, point weights and arrow sizes and chart these curves before making a size decision. As I said, in some cases the aluminum arrows are actually lighter than the carbons arrows.


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## Blackeagle1 (Aug 19, 2014)

paul68 said:


> x 2


x 3


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## jmoose77 (Apr 3, 2004)

I still use aluminum arrows for compounds and recurves.


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## b-a-maniak (Apr 19, 2014)

I lost 2 Doz. XX75 super slams in a theft last spring. Wishin' I had them back. These carbons I have now are just something to shoot. All I've seen is gamegetters and camo hunters. How do those stack up to the old school shafts?


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