# Won?t bare shaft tuning tell you everything?



## TH30060X (Jan 7, 2006)

Me personally I paper tune with bare shafts. My thinking is if you can get an arrow to shoot a bullet hole through paper, your pretty much perfect. All a vane is to help correct your imperfections of the arrow and stabilize it. Now walk back tuning I have never done. I just paper tune. I have never had a setup where I though it was necessary to do after paper tuning.


----------



## fletched (May 10, 2006)

TH30060X said:


> Me personally I paper tune with bare shafts. My thinking is if you can get an arrow to shoot a bullet hole through paper, your pretty much perfect. All a vane is to help correct your imperfections of the arrow and stabilize it. Now walk back tuning I have never done. I just paper tune. I have never had a setup where I though it was necessary to do after paper tuning.


Exactly the same here.

Bare shaft tuning can tell you just about everything but you have to know what it is saying. That's where most people get stumped. Is it the centershot, arrow spine or grip? All three can produce the same tears so it takes a process of elimination to unravel the code.


----------



## OHIOBUCK (Oct 25, 2006)

NGbowman said:


> I understand that paper tuning can show you what the arrow is doing when it leaves the bow, and can give you an initial idea of nock height (or rest height) and centershot. I have also read that walk back tuning can help fine-tune centershot. However, it seems to me that bare shaft tuning from 15-30 yds should give you a clearer look at both nock height and centershot, including the interaction of arrow stiffness. Especially if you equalize the weight of the bare shaft by wrapping some masking tape tight around where the fletching would go, to make it weigh the same as the fletched arrow.
> 
> Am I missing something? Is there something that other tuning methods tell you that bare shaft tuning doesn’t?




I don't think your missing anything. That's the only way i have ever tuned any bow. Bare shaft and keep walking back as far as you can get and make adjustments . (i don't even add weight to the back. )

You will come to a point when you can't make fine enough adjustments. At this point , i use the bow poundage and tiller to make very fine adjustments . For left and right adjustments i add or subtract poundage,(this will perfectly tune the spine of your arrow to your bow) for up and down i change the tiller.

The problems most people have with this method, is they don't have good enough form or their bow in spec to start . Many also think if it shoots straight at 5 yards their broad heads will hit the same spot. You really need to have it shooting straight at least 15 yards. I try for 30 if i can get it.

And the best thing about bare shaft tuning, you can check your tune anytime, with a single shot.


----------



## slamdam (Oct 10, 2006)

i dont shoot through paper any more. just bare shaft


----------



## Drcoffee (Jan 10, 2011)

Please explain "bare shaft tuning." Won't all shafts destabilze after 5-10 yds? It's merely a stick being pushed really fast. The tail will always want to kick out. Right?


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Bare shafting (weighted shaft as you said) and long distance is fine, but it should be up close to start and then the target must be of material that won't "tail" a arrow.

When I do paper tune it's only to see if the arrow is coming out of the bow cleanly.

Now, bare shafting may be fine, but then what does fletchings do to this fine tuning? Yeah, changes may come. What are shooting when hunting or target shooting, a bare shaft or a fletched arrow? No brainer here. So where to do you "draw the line?" In other words, you still have to deal with the fletched arrow so why waste your time after some point?

I have set up bows with basic tuning and had good results for normal shooting (40 yards max). Working at a archery shop only I ain't about to waste my time setting up someone's bow with bare shafting.

When it comes to Field Shooting, Outdoor target I French tune with the built arrow I will be using.


----------



## OHIOBUCK (Oct 25, 2006)

Drcoffee said:


> Please explain "bare shaft tuning." Won't all shafts destabilze after 5-10 yds? It's merely a stick being pushed really fast. The tail will always want to kick out. Right?


Not if you tune your bow properly. My bow will shoot a bare shaft almost 30 yards. Having good consistent form is also a must.

You simply shoot a cut to length shaft with the same weight tip as your broadhead. No fletching. Start out by getting your bow in spec. After that shoot close starting out, 15 feet. If shaft hits tail left move the rest left. Tail high, move the nock down. Once you get it to hit straight, move back another 10 feet and start over. Almost every bow i've tuned will get back to at least 15 to 20 yards. After that, making small enough adjustments is hard to do, so i start using the poundage and tiller to make fine adjustments. If nock right add weight. Nock left subtract weight. Nock high, tighten bottom limb or loosen top limb. If its a combination like high right, you need to add weight and pull the nock down, so tighten the bottom limb a little.(1/4 to 1/2 turn usually is enough). If you get back to 20 yards or so, it will be tuned very well.


----------



## edthearcher (Nov 2, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Bare shafting (weighted shaft as you said) and long distance is fine, but it should be up close to start and then the target must be of material that won't "tail" a arrow.
> 
> When I do paper tune it's only to see if the arrow is coming out of the bow cleanly.
> 
> ...


ditto


----------



## fletched (May 10, 2006)

Fletching are not made to stabilize and arrow, they are made to HELP stabilize an arrow. An arrow should be pretty stable without fletching. The harder your fletching as to work to stabilize the arrow, the more speed and stability you loose. If a bare shaft arrow flies pretty good out to 20-30 yards, the fletching will not have to perform miracles. I like to bare shaft through paper and then out to 20 yards to nock tune the arrows. It only makes sense that the better the arrows flies, the better it is for accuracy and consistency.


----------



## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

OHIOBUCK said:


> Not if you tune your bow properly. My bow will shoot a bare shaft almost 30 yards. Having good consistent form is also a must.
> 
> You simply shoot a cut to length shaft with the same weight tip as your broadhead. No fletching. Start out by getting your bow in spec. After that shoot close starting out, 15 feet. If shaft hits tail left move the rest left. Tail high, move the nock down. Once you get it to hit straight, move back another 10 feet and start over. Almost every bow i've tuned will get back to at least 15 to 20 yards. After that, making small enough adjustments is hard to do, so i start using the poundage and tiller to make fine adjustments. If nock right add weight. Nock left subtract weight. *Nock high, tighten bottom limb or loosen top limb.* If its a combination like high right, you need to add weight and pull the nock down, so tighten the bottom limb a little.(1/4 to 1/2 turn usually is enough). If you get back to 20 yards or so, it will be tuned very well.


This is good info. I'm having trouble with a high nock at 20yds using GT 22's. It seems I can affect a 5575 Pro Hunter and get the nock end to come around using my rest but the 22's are being a little stubborn. Right/Left is fine so it doesn't seem to follow basic spine issues so I'm basically just trying to see less "black" during the arrow flight. Should I weight up the 22's to see what happens? Or should I start making home run changes on rest height before coming back and bringing the nock point down? Also, is there a preferred target to bare shaft tune into? The club range has a bag type target with a closed cell foam front but I can pull in my Block if that will give me truer flight indications. The bow I'm using is the Legend in my sig and it's backed off to about 52lbs for spots. The rest is an AAE lizard tongue with a .010 blade.


----------



## sobradsayz (Oct 30, 2010)

OHIOBUCK said:


> Not if you tune your bow properly. My bow will shoot a bare shaft almost 30 yards. Having good consistent form is also a must.
> 
> You simply shoot a cut to length shaft with the same weight tip as your broadhead. No fletching. Start out by getting your bow in spec. After that shoot close starting out, 15 feet. If shaft hits tail left move the rest left. Tail high, move the nock down. Once you get it to hit straight, move back another 10 feet and start over. Almost every bow i've tuned will get back to at least 15 to 20 yards. After that, making small enough adjustments is hard to do, so i start using the poundage and tiller to make fine adjustments. If nock right add weight. Nock left subtract weight. Nock high, tighten bottom limb or loosen top limb. If its a combination like high right, you need to add weight and pull the nock down, so tighten the bottom limb a little.(1/4 to 1/2 turn usually is enough). If you get back to 20 yards or so, it will be tuned very well.


if your d-loop is tight can you just move the rest rather than your nock point???


----------



## OHIOBUCK (Oct 25, 2006)

Rick! said:


> This is good info. I'm having trouble with a high nock at 20yds using GT 22's. It seems I can affect a 5575 Pro Hunter and get the nock end to come around using my rest but the 22's are being a little stubborn. Right/Left is fine so it doesn't seem to follow basic spine issues so I'm basically just trying to see less "black" during the arrow flight. Should I weight up the 22's to see what happens? Or should I start making home run changes on rest height before coming back and bringing the nock point down? Also, is there a preferred target to bare shaft tune into? The club range has a bag type target with a closed cell foam front but I can pull in my Block if that will give me truer flight indications. The bow I'm using is the Legend in my sig and it's backed off to about 52lbs for spots. The rest is an AAE lizard tongue with a .010 blade.


I never move my rest....................it is set up centered on the threaded rest mount hole. I use a loop and 2 tied serving nocks inside. You can screw them and the loop up and down the string to adjust the nock point. I always adjust my nock vertically and rest horizontally untill i reach a point that i can't make a small enough change. ( this point is usually around 15 to 20 yards, just depends on the bow) After that , i start to tiller tune to make very fine adjustments. I can usually get a bare shaft to shoot 25 yards or better. 

For the bow poundage, i set it 1 to 1.5 full turns from max to start and whatever it ends up, it ends up.


----------



## OHIOBUCK (Oct 25, 2006)

sobradsayz said:


> if your d-loop is tight can you just move the rest rather than your nock point???


I never move the rest height, only the nock height. Use 2 tied serving nocks inside your loop and you can screw them up and down the string with very fine adjustments.


----------



## 152732 (Sep 26, 2009)

ttt


----------



## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

I compare bare to fletched out to 40 because thats all the room I have. I rarely have to change anything once I have them both in the ballpark. BUT, I'm not afraid to tweek poundage or point weight to see if I can tighten the group up after that with fletched shafts. Weather your hunting with broadheads or target shooting you will be using fletching. So don't just call it good with bareshafting, I used to, but don't be afraid to experiment a little further to better the grouping.


----------



## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

This thread should be a sticky

I LOVE this site!!


----------



## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

OHIOBUCK said:


> I never move the rest height, only the nock height. Use 2 tied serving nocks inside your loop and you can screw them up and down the string with very fine adjustments.


Once I have found the sweet spot for pull point/nocking point for a particular bow, I am more likely to move my rest nowadays. Some rest types I have shot, such as a springy, may not allow much vertical movement, which requires moving nock point and tiller tuning. Not sure there is a wrong way in this, as there's more than one way to skin cats.


----------



## 152732 (Sep 26, 2009)

How do you find "the sweet spot" ?


----------



## zztop1026 (Jan 1, 2005)

ttt


----------



## nag (Jun 13, 2007)

ohiobuck said:


> you will come to a point when you can't make fine enough adjustments. At this point , i use the bow poundage and tiller to make very fine adjustments . For left and right adjustments i add or subtract poundage,(this will perfectly tune the spine of your arrow to your bow) for up and down i change the tiller.
> 
> The problems most people have with this method, is they don't have good enough form or their bow in spec to start . Many also think if it shoots straight at 5 yards their broad heads will hit the same spot. You really need to have it shooting straight at least 15 yards. I try for 30 if i can get it.
> 
> And the best thing about bare shaft tuning, you can check your tune anytime, with a single shot.



I too finalize the tune process with poundage, but the fletch does come into play. Bullet holes through paper are a great place to start, but not everything.
A bow that groups well beyond 30 yards is "tuned".


----------



## 152732 (Sep 26, 2009)

:darkbeer:


----------



## ks.bowhunter (Jan 20, 2009)

Great info hear.Thanks guys.


----------



## benamen (Nov 7, 2011)

ttt


----------



## jbird90 (Nov 10, 2003)

I have been trying the bare shaft tuning the past two days and have made some good progress. I was having problems grouping anything past 30 yards, and decided i would double check my rest and arrows and started with bare shaft tuning. 
I can get my bare shafts to hit in the same group as my fletched arrows, but it seems like they tail whip up and down on the way out the 20 yard target. Left and right are perfect but my vertical has been the hardest to tune. At 20 yards, they are in the same group but have an ugly flight on the way there. At thirty yards they are 6 inches high. The bareshaft is not weighted at this time, so I am thinking that may be part of the problem for the 30 yard shot. 

After tuning I had an arrow that I tore a fletching off and decided I would shoot that for a couple rounds. With only 2-2inch blazers it was hitting exactly the same as the rest of the arrows in the group out to 50 yards. Now I am wondering if I am tuning to much and just need to let it go and shoot.


----------



## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

IMO, let it go. If you have bare shafts hitting within your groups at 20 yards your fletching will take care of the rest. I know Olympic Recurvers will bare shaft test way out there but for us mear mortals I think keeping them in the group at 20 is ample. My groups are acceptable to me and I'm happy if I can keep BS withing 6-8" at 40. I like the fletching to have to do the least work but if they're close at 40 and in the group at 20 I think your OK.


----------



## P&y only (Feb 26, 2009)

My assassin is bareshaft tuned to 40 yards. Fletched are tight with bare. THIS right here is where a micro adjustable rest really shines.


----------



## Solitude (Oct 25, 2011)

Ttt


----------



## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

Yes I always bare shaft tune. My quiver is never without a matched bare shaft so I can check after I make any changes.
Some may accept tuning that is not straight off the bow if their groups are good. That may be okay at targets, *BUT* if a broadhead comes off the bow anything but straight *TROUBLE* will ensue.


----------



## OHIOARCHER36 (Oct 12, 2010)

Ttt


----------

