# Help save a 3d target



## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

If they set the ranges too easy, sure its an issue. But I don't think it or arrow size is the primary issue. Adding yardage is an easy fix.... up to the point that every organization struggles to balance.... shooter satisfaction and return rate. You don't want to emasculate your customer to save targets.... you won't have any customers left to shoot them at any distance.

Let me ask a few questions of my own.....

Do you see Rhineharts getting chewed up like the current Delta's?

In my opinion, the solution is to use better foam and paint and then quit griping about target damage while setting courses with most targets quartered rather than broadside.

I'm really not interested in how or what "the rest of the world" shoots. Are they buying many Rhineharts or McKenzies? Are they sending any jobs to the US? Are they paying ASA or IBO entry fees.... contributing to the overhead or the winnings?


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

I wasn't able to make it down there, but tmorelli's comment about quartering shots was the first complaint I heard from friends who did. Plus I keep hearing that the target s are just plain poor. Maybe we should think about better made targets or cheaper inserts that can be changed daily instead of making the course itself harder or making the arrows smaller..

JMO


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

The answer is better quality targets. Quartered animals are part of the game and I personally think it adds a technical element that further separates the shooters. Arrow size is just a way to make excuses for poor quality material. Why should all shooters and arrow manufacturers change their inventory or what they shoot with becuase the lone target manufacturer has decided to output inferior product?
The targets on our range had chunks falling out on Sunday.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

3-D Country makes a foam that we use to replace the old blown out foam in the original (OEM) targets. It's MUCH better than the OEM foam. I would say it lasts 3 or 4 times as long.

However..

Carving out the blown out foam, preparing the target, mixing the catalyst and resin, filling the holes, shaping the inserts, duplicating the scoring rings and painting it TAKES WORK.

WORK is something most here are allergic too. In fact, most young folks don't even know the meaning of the word.

If they can't just replace it....

Throw away world...


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

I will say this, as I said elsewhere. There was a few targets out on the ranges....WHERE I do not know...but they had a new foam compound being suggested from a chemicals mfg. The targets where shot on on Thurs and all day on friday. When they inspected them they were hardly known as being shot. This might be a cure all for that issue. 

No, need to get rid of quarting away. It is what is makes the game..stated by vero. IF you want to shoot straight ahead targets...go shoot a paper target on a bale.  

But, I still do believe that the 27/64 .422 shafts are bit much though ...


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> No, need to get rid of quarting away. ...


I didn't intend... and I don't think anyone else would/did either... to get rid of all quartering targets though I do think the frequency and severity at which some are quartered is SOMETIMES a little excessive for a target archery game.

What I did intend is that kind of like taking the 14's away because of target damage (but setting mule deer at 18 yards)..... I simply quit listening to all of the target damage arguments when I see lots of quartered targets and decreasing target quality in general.


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## steiny93 (Jul 20, 2010)

3d noob here; what is the significance to the quartered targets? How does that affect the life of the target?


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

steiny93 said:


> 3d noob here; what is the significance to the quartered targets? How does that affect the life of the target?


Quartered targets, more challenging. As far as affecting the life of a target, it cuts it way down imo, because you're chopping up the target when you shoot it from different angles rather than shooting them straight on at all times.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> I didn't intend... and I don't think anyone else would/did either... to get rid of all quartering targets though I do think the frequency and severity at which some are quartered is SOMETIMES a little excessive for a target archery game.
> 
> What I did intend is that kind of like taking the 14's away because of target damage (but setting mule deer at 18 yards)..... I simply quit listening to all of the target damage arguments when I see lots of quartered targets and decreasing target quality in general.



18 yard mule deer is a little too much....now 6 yards might of made it interesting. and the small hole javalina . 

But, I understand what you mean t. 

I don't know, if they went back to using the ''''old stuff'' that was used around in the 90s.....would we hear oh I can't pull my arrow out ( which btw ) is a little too far fetched of a gripe. 


Dupont -which most of where the foam/rubber compounds come from has from one extreme (like a brickwall) foam to that soupy mousse foam...


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> I will say this, as I said elsewhere. There was a few targets out on the ranges....WHERE I do not know...but they had a new foam compound being suggested from a chemicals mfg. The targets where shot on on Thurs and all day on friday. When they inspected them they were hardly known as being shot. This might be a cure all for that issue.
> 
> No, need to get rid of quarting away. It is what is makes the game..stated by vero. IF you want to shoot straight ahead targets...go shoot a paper target on a bale.
> 
> But, I still do believe that the 27/64 .422 shafts are bit much though ...



Maybe those few targets were actually rineharts..... 

It may be possible a deeper penetrating smaller shafts are also hard on targets. 

I shot 22s this weekend and was constantly scraping target material off the arrow.

Oh well.....it is what it is.

Still waiting to see more than a few targets a range with the "2013" scoring rings.


Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> No, need to get rid of quarting away. It is what is makes the game..stated by vero. IF you want to shoot straight ahead targets...go shoot a paper target on a bale.
> 
> But, I still do believe that the 27/64 .422 shafts are bit much though ...


Ok, I see. So setting the targets at an angle that causes more arrow damage due to contact with more surface area and cutting a channel againstthe normal direction of travel for the arrow is acceptable...but telling everyone to pitch a $200 + set of arrows and go back to a standard "hunting" size shaft and placing all the targets 10-15 yards farther away is a better alternative? 

I'd say if you push the targets farther out and outlae 90% of the arrows being used....then you won't have to worry about too many people shooting up your targets.....:zip:

You and Vero say "it is what makes the game", I'm just curious as to how? Why not just make the scoring rings on a few target oval-shaped and the 12 ring a 1.5" slit instead...you'll get the same results and save "slashing through the target", which is what a quartering shot causes...


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Reality is Rineharts have considerably less wear, holes dont appear as fast, takes longer to break them down.

They look different and the texture makes it way more difficult to see scoring rings at times because of the texture.

Most hardcore target archers will hate them for that reason.

But they have the foam figured out. Hopefully McKenzie will get it soon.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## tagmaster10 (Jan 26, 2011)

Garceau said:


> Reality is Rineharts have considerably less wear, holes dont appear as fast, takes longer to break them down.
> 
> They look different and the texture makes it way more difficult to see scoring rings at times because of the texture.
> 
> ...



The fact is that Mckenzie is the title sponsor and so that is the target that we all have to shoot in ASA. As far as I am concerned, as long as I can see the scoring rings through my binos, I don't care how long they last.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> With the farther advancements in equipment in the archery world. Do you think that ASA should add some yardages to the classes....and or change up the max size of the arrow shafts.
> 
> I personally, seen a target that did not have a 12ring at all on target. This along with when you have 5 of 6 shooters shoot at a target 35yrds away and clog up the twelve and have a chunk of the foam pull out after their arrows come out.
> 
> ...


Good lord, now it is being suggested that the ASA and every archery club that uses McKenzies should change their rules so Delta can continue to make an inferior product! The only way this makes ANY sense is if Delta and the ASA are heavily financially tied to one another. More and more it seems to be the case. We would be better off with the ASA being in bed with Easton!! Then we would at least be in a position to use the target that is "best" for the game.



tagmaster10 said:


> The fact is that Mckenzie is the title sponsor and so that is the target that we all have to shoot in ASA. As far as I am concerned, as long as I can see the scoring rings through my binos, I don't care how long they last.


Then don't buy a brand new black painted Mckenzie target because after a few dozen shots from good archers your brand new black target will have a big light colored brown blob in and/or around the 10 ring. A single arrow removes all the black paint leaving a perfectly round tan spot on a nice new target.

Delta is the title sponsor but the ASA needs to fight being pulled down to Delta's product standard!!!!!!!!


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Once a Target gets a soft spot in the core you can quarter it and get a few more shoots out of it. I try to quarter it enough so that the arrow tip goes into the midsection not out the back of the core. Core prices are crazy high and some times dont last 300 shots, the old black cores wore out faster than the brown ones so I think thats why McKenzie is painting brown ones black. Easy fix for them.


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## BigBore56 (Mar 30, 2009)

I ran a club/10 acre 3D range for 8 years, and used all McKenzie targets. It's just part of the game....cut out damage, mixing resin, filling in core, burning in new scoring rings (drinking beer on work nights). If we made it so hard that people were not tearing up the 12 rings, a lot of shooters that can barely hit the target would get out of the game. The same shooters can't afford to lose $10 carbon arrows, as they only bring 6 to a tournament. 

Todays clubs don't have many guys that want to work on the range, repair targets, mow, etc. Seems like 3 or 4 guys still do all the work for others to enjoy. I can still blow thru older targets @ 65# and 330+ fps, but at age 57, shoot for fun and relaxation.


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

Thought I heard on the bow junky you tube cast that there were a ton of shooters there. More then in past. Maybe prepare for the numbers and replace some inserts 
Gotta spend money to make money


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

The fact is that the ASA burned all their bridges with Rinehart and are backed into a corner and have to use whatever delta-mckenzie provides for them and have no leverage to force any improvements to the targets or materials. Combine that with the fact that people in the ASA areas want to shoot the same targets as they'll see at the big shoots and you lose all the leverage the clubs might have to demand better products and you've got D-M with all the power. So now people are talking about trying to change the rules of the game to make up for the mistake of the association.


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## ELPalmer (Mar 2, 2013)

I shoot Series 22's. I agree, these big 27 arrows are bigger than the bullet diameter of a 416 rigby/rem mag/wby. ridiculous. Im with you Timmay, I will be happy to sign an E-Petition. On the 1st leg of the Hunter class range we gave 12's by default because the inserts were so ate up we couldnt tell where the 12 was for sure and gave the shooter the benefit of the doubt if he was in the ball park at the Ft Benning ASA.

limiting arrow diameter and replacing inserts every round is the way to go. Cost to the ASA for a course of inserts is what, under $600....probably $400 ish


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

ELPalmer said:


> I shoot Series 22's. I agree, these big 27 arrows are bigger than the bullet diameter of a 416 rigby/rem mag/wby. ridiculous. Im with you Timmay, I will be happy to sign an E-Petition. On the 1st leg of the Hunter class range we gave 12's by default because the inserts were so ate up we couldnt tell where the 12 was for sure and gave the shooter the benefit of the doubt if he was in the ball park at the Ft Benning ASA.
> 
> limiting arrow diameter and replacing inserts every round is the way to go. Cost to the ASA for a course of inserts is what, under $600....probably $400 ish


I bet ya if you put arrow restrictions in place you will lose alot of shooters. If they just replaced the inserts after each day of shooting on them the problem would be fixed but......I agree that the target material from Delta is sub par. Rinehart targets can outlast a Delta/McKenzie hands down. I don't know the full story on the whole ASA/Rinehart story but if Delta/Mckenzie could figure out what Rinehart is doing on how to make their stuff so long lasting..... Rinehart would be in trouble. Maybe it's time to have a POW POW and fix what needs to be fixed before it gets any worse than what it is.


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## watermedic23 (Aug 23, 2006)

It isnt the arrow size. It is the crappy targets!

The core material isn't up to par. I can shoot a VAP on a brand new core and it will be sticking out the back of it.

Maybe when people stop buying ranges because of the low quality, McKenzie will make better quality targets.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

I know one of our local clubs bought either the I or J range from Florida (Bow Novice and Women Hunter shot them)....and they were very very disappointed in the targets....they said they almost didn't want to bring them back to Tennessee. I know I shot the range they bought on Sunday evening and there were big gaping holes in the 10 rings....made it very easy to get a reference spot if you didn't have binoculars...and if you did have binos, you could tell how far off the hole was from the 12 rings.

I wasn't at Benning but from the sound of it; things were about the same, if not a bit worse....especially hearing reports of pass throughs and such. They must have had the targets set close or something. I am shooting Bow Novice class and our max is 30 yards...but some of the shots we had were just 12 and 13 yards...so with Bow Novice, Women Hunter, and Youth classes shooting the same targets from the same stakes...man those extra short shots make the targets get ate up bad because everybody was hitting the same general spots. Some of the holes were so big you could stick a coke can in them.

Arrow size restrictions...that would just be my luck LOL. I just bought a dozen X-Ringers and got my bow set up for them because I felt like I was the only one out there shooting standard carbon size arrows in the .245 ID range.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I can guarantee you that a 23 diameter shaft will far out penetrate a 27 diameter shaft shot into foam!
As I said weeks ago taking the 14 out of play put even more arrows slamming into the 12. At least in K45 the guys that hammered 14's will put the shots that would have been destined for the 14 ring area on the 12 ring area.

Overall I really enjoyed the K45 ranges, the venue _and the targets_. 

The Simms range was converted into a K45 range and we had a lot of targets between 38 and 46 yards. That was the range that I shot the second day and it had more shot up cores than K range. It had been shot all day Friday as a Simms range but it also was the second day so the targets would have been more damaged. The back of the Black Buck core was completely blown out and should have been replaced prior to us shooting it Sunday.

I would really hesitate to buy any new black targets. The black paint will quickly be gone and you'll have a new target that has a big light brown area for a 10 ring!! Your new target quickly changes appearance from what you purchase. Without binos you'll quickly identify the 10 ring on a Blesbok after just a dozen quality shots.


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## ELPalmer (Mar 2, 2013)

YankeeRebel said:


> I bet ya if you put arrow restrictions in place you will lose alot of shooters. If they just replaced the inserts after each day of shooting on them the problem would be fixed but......I agree that the target material from Delta is sub par. Rinehart targets can outlast a Delta/McKenzie hands down. I don't know the full story on the whole ASA/Rinehart story but if Delta/Mckenzie could figure out what Rinehart is doing on how to make their stuff so long lasting..... Rinehart would be in trouble. Maybe it's time to have a POW POW and fix what needs to be fixed before it gets any worse than what it is.


I dont think ASA would lose any shooters, you would have a bunch of shooters beeotch about it for a minute and a 1/2 and then go aquire and re tune theyre rigs to Series 22's or Fatboys (just a hair under 24/64 in 400 spine)or reasonable facsimile/brand of simular diameter.


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## asa3dpro (Dec 31, 2002)

Supermag1 said:


> The fact is that the ASA burned all their bridges with Rinehart and are backed into a corner and have to use whatever delta-mckenzie provides for them and have no leverage to force any improvements to the targets or materials. Combine that with the fact that people in the ASA areas want to shoot the same targets as they'll see at the big shoots and you lose all the leverage the clubs might have to demand better products and you've got D-M with all the power. So now people are talking about trying to change the rules of the game to make up for the mistake of the association.


Yea, this is incorrect! Rinehart kept raising the price every year until the ASA was backed into a corner to change back to mckenzie...
I believe the quality is definitely not there. I don't like how my mule deer is now obsolete because the new ones are the HD Lg deer painted grey.


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## ELPalmer (Mar 2, 2013)

foam is a petro chemical


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Plus, if we outlaw them evil line cutting, cheater using, big hole making arrows, then we can get them real cheap from manufactures such as Easton, Black Eagle, GoldTip, and Victory because no one will be using them anymore! Unless someone has tried to hunt with a TripleX.

We wouldn't want to put a burden on McKenzie to build a better product, let's outlaw sales for other companies! Ya know, if we outlaw long stabilizers too, then people won't be as accurate and won't hit many twelves!!!

(It's a good thing arrow compaines don't sponsor any of ASA tournaments)

It's a win-win for all!!!


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## ELPalmer (Mar 2, 2013)

X Cutter, 30X and XXX are all references to Indoor spots. why stop there, a 29/64 should get you in the 458 win mag dia range.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

rattlinman said:


> Plus, if we outlaw them evil line cutting, cheater using, big hole making arrows, then we can get them real cheap from manufactures such as Easton, Black Eagle, GoldTip, and Victory because no one will be using them anymore! Unless someone has tried to hunt with a TripleX.
> 
> We wouldn't want to put a burden on McKenzie to build a better product, let's outlaw sales for other companies! Ya know, if we outlaw long stabilizers too, then people won't be as accurate and won't hit many twelves!!!
> 
> ...


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## ELPalmer (Mar 2, 2013)

Im all for a smaller diameter shaft limit...but the targets are crappy too. If theyre that cheap, replace the inserts before each round.


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

asa3dpro said:


> Yea, this is incorrect! Rinehart kept raising the price every year until the ASA was backed into a corner to change back to mckenzie...
> I believe the quality is definitely not there. I don't like how my mule deer is now obsolete because the new ones are the HD Lg deer painted grey.


I was talking more about now and the fact that several ASA people have ran their mouth about never going back to Rineharts. Switching based on pricing alone could have been just a business decision but burning the bridges afterwards is just stupid.


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## Mitchhunt (Jan 31, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> I didn't intend... and I don't think anyone else would/did either... to get rid of all quartering targets though I do think the frequency and severity at which some are quartered is SOMETIMES a little excessive for a target archery game.
> 
> What I did intend is that kind of like taking the 14's away because of target damage (but setting mule deer at 18 yards)..... I simply quit listening to all of the target damage arguments when I see lots of quartered targets and decreasing target quality in general.


I've always heard that quartering targets gets them chewed up much quicker. I certainly understand this for clubs who set the same targets at different angles from month to month. Arrows leave small gaps in the foam once pulled. If all gaps are in the same direction the target will last longer. This is why a lot of clubs put a directional arrow on the top of the target so they know how to set them each month. The problem comes when shots are taken at different angles from month to month. Those gaps left at different angles weakens the foam and you start to have large chunks come out. At an ASA shoot I would assume all targets are shot from the same direction the entire weekend. Wouldn't that mean quartering would have no affect on the life of the foam since all shots come from the same direction? As far as arrow size I don't see the large diameter arrows as the problem. Due to the size they don't penetrate as much as smaller arrows. The biggest problem we've had at my club is with those shooting small diameter arrows. These tend to go all the way through and blow big chunks out of the backside of the target. I get that the fat shafts fill the 12 ring quickly with 5 or 6 shooters on the stake, but this is why calling the upper 12 is allowed. No one should have to change the size of arrow they decide to use. As stated by others, better foam is the answer not rule changes.


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## hotrod26 (Aug 24, 2006)

ELPalmer said:


> I shoot Series 22's. I agree, these big 27 arrows are bigger than the bullet diameter of a 416 rigby/rem mag/wby. ridiculous. Im with you Timmay, I will be happy to sign an E-Petition. On the 1st leg of the Hunter class range we gave 12's by default because the inserts were so ate up we couldnt tell where the 12 was for sure and gave the shooter the benefit of the doubt if he was in the ball park at the Ft Benning ASA.
> 
> limiting arrow diameter and replacing inserts every round is the way to go. Cost to the ASA for a course of inserts is what, under $600....probably $400 ish


Average cost of replacing cores on a 20 target course is about $1400.00!!


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## ELPalmer (Mar 2, 2013)

$1400........that has to be retail? another possibility is make the core smaller to encompass the 10 ring + another 2" -3" of the 8 score area insted of the whole 8 area...just a thought?


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## Stillfingers (May 6, 2008)

Tim, I agree with *YankeeRebel*, if they inspected the targets after each day of competition and replaced the inserts of the ones that are shot up, or... just make it a policy to replace the inserts after each day, the problem would be solved.

SF


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> rattlinman said:
> 
> 
> > Plus, if we outlaw them evil line cutting, cheater using, big hole making arrows, then we can get them real cheap from manufactures such as Easton, Black Eagle, GoldTip, and Victory because no one will be using them anymore! Unless someone has tried to hunt with a TripleX.
> ...


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Stillfingers said:


> Tim, I agree with *YankeeRebel*, if they inspected the targets after each day of competition and replaced the inserts of the ones that are shot up, or... just make it a policy to replace the inserts after each day, the problem would be solved.
> 
> SF


Trust me , That would be great. but I am not giving excuses but those guys work their arses off. They where there a fulll week cutting and trimming lands...and work dawn to dark on the ranges as it is for/during the shoot. 

Im sure something will work out soon ...I hope


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> Trust me , That would be great. but I am not giving excuses but those guys work their arses off. They where there a fulll week cutting and trimming lands...and work dawn to dark on the ranges as it is for/during the shoot.
> 
> Im sure something will work out soon ...I hope


I am sure Mike and company will get something worked out. ASA Shooters give great feedback and Mike is willing to listen to all. My hat is off to him and his crew for putting on the greatest show in 3-D. :thumb:


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## ProtecMan (Apr 14, 2003)

I haven't been able to make it to a ASA ProAm yet this year, but our club bought a range at Paris last year and couldn't be happier! 
Targets lasted quite well last year and expect them to do so again this year. 
Curious as to why they changed formulas, I've heard for cost reasons, but its a guarantee that poor quality targets on a National ProAm will cost them way more in the long run.


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## gryfox00 (Jun 11, 2007)

We have a full course of Rineharts and started purchasing McKenzies last year. Wanted a full course of each to be able to run IBO and ASA shoots. All of these quality issues in the new McKenzie has me reluctant to purchasing any more McKenzies.


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## speciii (Dec 28, 2008)

gryfox00 said:


> We have a full course of Rineharts and started purchasing McKenzies last year. Wanted a full course of each to be able to run IBO and ASA shoots. All of these quality issues in the new McKenzie has me reluctant to purchasing any more McKenzies.


I wouldn't worry too much, the core of top shooters live well south of Michigan


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> Good lord, now it is being suggested that the ASA and every archery club that uses McKenzies should change their rules so Delta can continue to make an inferior product! The only way this makes ANY sense is if Delta and the ASA are heavily financially tied to one another. More and more it seems to be the case. We would be better off with the ASA being in bed with Easton!! Then we would at least be in a position to use the target that is "best" for the game.


Its my understanding that Easton already owns McKenzie/Delta...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Everyone pretty much knows I like Rineharts, if not quality, then longer term cost savings. BUT! I first hand witnessed what I would later ask to be considered ruled against. Brand new Rinehart center and those tiny Nano arrows were getting through the other side. If not getting through the other side they were getting so deep that they had to be weakening the opposite side. So full life (whatever that is) and maybe less than half life on the opposite side?

Some arrows today for whatever reason seem to load up with foam. Of McKenzies and Rineharts I've seen chunked out holes and wonder. At the shop we had arrows plastered with bale material and hard as (you know) to pull. Something in the coating...I don't know. I've tried just about every arrow lube there is and they all seem to help, some better than others. Use what works best for you. Me, I still use them little motel bars of soap and carry Scorpion Venom as a back up. I have not had people complain of pull in my arrows.

Is Rinehart changing their foam of recent times? I don't know, but it seems arrows pull harder now than in the past. Notably would be 3 years ago and back to what I deemed normal. Now, having shot new Rinehart centers at a local archery shop I find my arrows pulling a little harder once more. Good or bad, I don't know at this time.

If I understand correctly, the standard line of McKenzies is no longer available. Is this true? If so this shameful.


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## Tonto79 (Feb 13, 2011)

rattlinman said:


> Why not just make the scoring rings on a few target oval-shaped and the 12 ring a 1.5" slit instead...you'll get the same results and save "slashing through the target", which is what a quartering shot causes...


As an active bowhunter, I love the quartering shots and practice them religiously at least an hour a day, but I fully support this idea too, it forces you to make the best possible shot you can make


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> Trust me , That would be great. but I am not giving excuses but those guys work their arses off. They where there a fulll week cutting and trimming lands...and work dawn to dark on the ranges as it is for/during the shoot.
> 
> Im sure something will work out soon ...I hope


i'm with you on this one Tim...just don't let the Buzzard and Finger know I said so. I would offer one small correction. one of the range officials told me the army cut the lanes for them, and that's why they were crooked  still dragging those targets out, unboxing them, setting them on the lanes, and then serving all weekend to monitor the various classes requires a lot of dedication. my hat's always off to them. really professional kind of guys.

btw, appreciate your work as a director...you do a good job of trying to keep everyone informed and responding to quesitons...thanks.


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## Stillfingers (May 6, 2008)

bhtr3d said:


> Trust me , That would be great. but I am not giving excuses but those guys work their arses off. They where there a fulll week cutting and trimming lands...and work dawn to dark on the ranges as it is for/during the shoot.
> 
> Im sure something will work out soon ...I hope


I hope so too...

I definitely agree with you, those guys work hard and I for one appreciate it greatly! (Did you hear that Dan?)

SF


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I appreciate all the hard work any range owner/member puts in so we can work. And believe me, most people have no idea how much time and how much work goes into a shoot if you try and make it a nice one.

I just wish the McKenzie target quality wasn't going down hill. I really like the way they look.


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

YankeeRebel said:


> I am sure Mike and company will get something worked out. ASA Shooters give great feedback and Mike is willing to listen to all. My hat is off to him and his crew for putting on the greatest show in 3-D. :thumb:


After setting a range for ten years I don't agree with you on the Mike and company statement. Yes it's a lot of work but the ASA does a fair job on the range. 

I have never seen the practice range maintained or the ranges gone over or after a shoot. When your back the next day to shoot tagets shouldnt be falling over and shot out cores should be replaced. If the target is shot out its only after several several several complaints if the plug gets replaced. 

I would go out and check the range after every day of shooting to make sure the range was good to go. I have never seen this happen ever at a ASA event. 

Lets not forget Mike is not a no profit organization. The ASA needs to start continuously improve the events if they want them to grow. 
I don't mind paying more to shoot, and I don't mind them making money, but lets face it other then some class changes it has been the same old same old same same old shoot for some time know.


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

Last word should be now instead of know. My bad.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

EROS said:


> After setting a range for ten years I don't agree with you on the Mike and company statement. Yes it's a lot of work but the ASA does a fair job on the range.
> 
> I have never seen the practice range maintained or the ranges gone over or after a shoot. When your back the next day to shoot tagets shouldnt be falling over and shot out cores should be replaced. If the target is shot out its only after several several several complaints if the plug gets replaced.
> 
> ...


any idea how many targets you're talking about maintaining? just wondering...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EROS said:


> After setting a range for ten years I don't agree with you on the Mike and company statement. Yes it's a lot of work but the ASA does a fair job on the range.
> 
> I have never seen the practice range maintained or the ranges gone over or after a shoot. When your back the next day to shoot tagets shouldnt be falling over and shot out cores should be replaced. If the target is shot out its only after several several several complaints if the plug gets replaced.
> 
> ...


Can't really agree throughout. Targets falling over was caused by something and most generally some "give a care" shooters. And I'm not saying ranges shouldn't be given a once over.
I have issues with the practice ranges; One, seems there are a lot of shooters flinging arrows in hope of finding the "magic." I got news for them. If they don't bring it with them they aren't going to find it on a ganged up practice range. So I give a 50/50. Shooters should be prepared to do battle and shot out cores should be replaced.
The ASA seems to be growing and at a rate where a couple of things have been changed to handle the numbers. Wasn't 1300 shooters plus for the last?
So same old, same old seems to be working or membership and attendance wouldn't be up.


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

I wouldn't really say its up all that much. I don't consider a hundred or so a shoot real growth per year. I will go as far to say they don't get more then 50 shooters at KY this year compared to last year. 

For years and years a extra set of practice bags be nice. Bet that don't happen either.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

EROS said:


> After setting a range for ten years I don't agree with you on the Mike and company statement. Yes it's a lot of work but the ASA does a fair job on the range.
> 
> not sure what you're saying here. are you saying that Mike and company are not doing a good job on setting up and managing the ranges?
> 
> ...



:thumbs_up


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## rlblevins2001 (Feb 22, 2008)

Don't know the answer here. I do know that in trying to stretch out our targets I have found that what ends up happening is the majority of the targets are, for hunter class, are set on average 33 to 37 yds. I couldn't tell you how many courses I've shot and not had to change my HHA sight more than a yard or two. My question is has anyone tried staggering targets more. Long, short, long, medium, short....


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

Lets look at KY for a moment the range hasn't changed at all since it started there. For years the practice range has Been in the same place and it stinks. Why haven't they moved it. Why haven't they improved/or addedd more bags on the practice range at any events. On the power line you just bake in the sun why haven't new lanes been cut to keep shooters out of the sun.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

I shot XJAMMER 27 Pros and never scraped target meat off of mine..


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