# What makes you show up, and what makes you come back?



## DssBB (Feb 21, 2010)

It's an Addiction!


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I like clever courses that make me think, not just open lanes and lazy course setting. Friendly clubs that accept all the classes, good quality targets, good stiff competition from top shooters and a bit of banter.
Good terrain is a bonus but a good course layer can make anything a fair test.


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## RoscoeP23 (Feb 27, 2013)

I don't want to drive for hours or wait for hours because groups are to big or shooting to slow. Cheers


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

I am in if.....

-its not too far(however if its got a good reputation, no issue with the drive)
-a good show of effort, which includes but not limited to, thoughtful layout, decent lunch, a little something for winners or a chance at one big thing. I will not return if I leave with the thought that I could have come as guest for 10$ and had the same experience.
-organization 
-decent targets


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

small groups.
great course layout.
peer grouping.
awesome lunch.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

shakyshot said:


> small groups.
> great course layout.
> peer grouping.
> awesome lunch.


Not sure how to peer group on local shoots but I don't think groups of friends should shout together all the time.


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

Teddy Ladelpha's PandP tourney is a good example of a well run shoot and because of that it is growing in attendance. Having said that I am going to take this as an opportunity to put in a shameless plug

for our upcoming tournament at Durham archers in Oshawa. We are going all out this year to incorporate most if not all of the things that make people want to come back every year. First class Reinhart targets.

Very good target set up and varying terrain. Wonderful food including way more than the standard fare of burgers and hot dogs. Large butt range with Reinhart wall targets as well as 3D targets.


Shotgun start with checking to ensure groups are moving well. Wonderful prize table with an assortment of prizes to ensure the kids as well as the adults are looked after. Timely

medal presentation to ensure all participants get away in good time. We at Durham are very proud of the effort we put in to our tournament every year and we are rewarded with excellent attendance. 


I'm sure I have missed a few things, we all try to make this a premiere event so come on out this year especially if you have never been. Love to have you.


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## crazymoose (May 17, 2005)

I enjoy the 2 day shoots like the P & P Charity Tournament and the Running Bear Shoot.
Great course lay out and a chance to hang out with old and new friends alike.
Both of these shoots have a great Saturday night dinner available and it supports each club.
The P & P Charity Tournament raises monies for the Perth Hospital which I feel is a worthy cause. Great work Ted.
It's all about having fun and supporting the sport of archery and sharing a few laughs along the way.


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## shootthewhatnow (Jan 29, 2008)

So here's another shameless plug... except these aren't my clubs or shoots... hmm.

The tournaments that I try (and often fail) to get to every year generally have something ... extra?

Gerry Lee shoot, Galt (Feb)
-2 day Trad only shoot that includes "after" events for the days, the Stake/Staff shoot on day 1 and the distance shoot on day 2

Tavistock String shoot (Aug?)
-String shoots are just different that what most clubs run, and it gives a chance to take a slightly different shot that everyone else.
-No "open lane, stand by stake" issues here. 
-Sadly it's been years since I've been to this due to the conflict with the shoot below... still would love to get back to this.

Saginaw MI Reinhart
-Massive shoot, nice vacation, great targets, awesome club
-Long-ish lines sometimes (not so great), but even then it's still worth going to one of these if'n you've never been

Honorable mention...

Galt in general... Spring/fall shoots
-I love this course... it suffers a little bit on the challenging side by being so damn well groomed, but this was my first 3d location, and I still think they should have the BBQ lunch in the middle of the big open field on loop 1.
-Sadly, it's so freakin expensive to join, and also the archery group was kinda decimated in the last couple years by some changes in the management. I'm hoping this club doesn't fade away... that would be a real shame.


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## roughneck1 (Feb 8, 2012)

location
challenging course layout
quality targets


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Thanks guys I appreciate all the input. Keep things coming. In the meantime, how about some feedback on these rules

-A non-competetive class (NC). Not restrictive to ANY equipment or shooter, scores may be kept and posted but in no particular order, no awards for this class.
-Peer group and shotgun start, assigned your target when you sign in, meet your group at your target
-MAX 4 shooters per group 
-2 minutes at stake per shooter, ENFORCED
-5 target open class shootdown, 14 ring in play. 10 minutes prior to judge all targets, 1 minute timed per arrow. (ASA format)


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

Topper1018 said:


> Thanks guys I appreciate all the input. Keep things coming. In the meantime, how about some feedback on these rules
> 
> -A non-competetive class (NC). Not restrictive to ANY equipment or shooter, scores may be kept and posted but in no particular order, no awards for this class.
> -Peer group and shotgun start, assigned your target when you sign in, meet your group at your target
> ...


 Nothing really to say about an NC class, don't know how it would play at the average tournament.

I agree with peer groupings at major and money shoots. Definitely peer group for cash. Don't think it would work for the average local shoots. I think many people are a bit self conscious and prefer to shoot
with friends and/or family. It would probably hurt attendance at the local shoot level.

4 per group works for me.

2 minute rule can only be enforced by the group themselves. There are not enough course marshals to make this work. If a group is piling up groups behind them then a course official would have to be called. 

I really like the idea of a 5 target shoot down in open class. Top 5 enter the shoot down keeping their 40 target score and adding the 5 targets to that score. Think this would spice to the shoot. Only downsideis the additional time added to the day. My experience tells me that most folks who have driven a ways to attend always want to get away ASAP.


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## roughneck1 (Feb 8, 2012)

peregrine82 said:


> I agree with peer groupings at major and money shoots. Definitely peer group for cash. Don't think it would work for the average local shoots. I think many people are a bit self conscious and prefer to shoot with friends and/or family. It would probably hurt attendance at the local shoot level.


x2 on this


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

shootthewhatnow said:


> So here's another shameless plug... except these aren't my clubs or shoots... hmm.
> 
> The tournaments that I try (and often fail) to get to every year generally have something ... extra?
> 
> ...


I agree about Galt. Great shoot grounds, often not the best courses but always fun. They just need an influx of archery members to boost the place but at the price they charge no one will join unless they shoot trap and skeet. For just archery it's ridiculous.


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## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

Why 2 minutes on the line? To me that is a long time. I could have a hot dog, fletch a couple of arrows and a quick nap in 2 minutes. What takes so long? why not 1 minute max on the line? You just cut the tourney time in half (theoretically)

And peer group at big events. When I go to the local shoots I want to shoot with the guys I go with so we can trash talk and have a relaxed enjoyable shoot....with 1 minute at the line


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

If the OAA consider looking at the sanctioned shoot idea, I say shoot with your buddies in the morning but top 3 scores in each class go out together in the afternoon and yes 1 minute is plenty by who times it?


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

For me it's the people I choose to shoot with that make a great day. Clubs have to deal with the lay of the land given them and most do very well with it. Spending the day shooting with unfriendly people or trouble makers makes a bad day for all.


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Perhaps i should elaborate more. The shoot we are building towards will be a money prize shoot for competitive classes. The non competitive class would allow those that wish to come and shoot with their friends and/or family request that they be grouped with said people. Sorry but you cannot shoot competitive class and choose who you shoot with, it just doesnt work. 
The course will be officiated to enforce time limits. 2 minutes is fair, 1 minute is unreasonable to judge set up and execute a real shot. If you can do it quicker excellent! But 2 minutes is reasonable. 
With double shotgun starts during the day a shootdown should fit in nicely, timed as well. Also to ease pressure on those that seem to want to get away as quick as possible, the shoot may be slated for a saturday.


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

Topper1018 said:


> Perhaps i should elaborate more. The shoot we are building towards will be a money prize shoot for competitive classes. The non competitive class would allow those that wish to come and shoot with their friends and/or family request that they be grouped with said people. Sorry but you cannot shoot competitive class and choose who you shoot with, it just doesnt work.
> The course will be officiated to enforce time limits. 2 minutes is fair, 1 minute is unreasonable to judge set up and execute a real shot. If you can do it quicker excellent! But 2 minutes is reasonable.
> With double shotgun starts during the day a shootdown should fit in nicely, timed as well. Also to ease pressure on those that seem to want to get away as quick as possible, the shoot may be slated for a saturday.


Hope it works out for you. Count me in for the competitive class if not to far of a drive.


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Great! Thanks for the support


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## shootthewhatnow (Jan 29, 2008)

Where ya from Topper?


(Hint... I'm asking what club the new shoot is for...) :wink:


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Will be for the Floyd armstrong memorial shoot, held at crooked arrow archery in picton ontario. Just for the sake of knowing, this is just me feeling things out with archers relative in the archery community, and nothing is written in stone. We want to hold a shoot FOR shooters BY shooters, and make it a yearly thing in floyd's honor. I will be attending the ASA's down south this year and hope to bring some of that quality back home, but i want to know what local guys want too. 

Also i see a previous post mentioning the OAA and sanctioning, for the sake of avoiding argument lets avoid anything to do with the OAA at this point. 
Thanks again.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Topper1018 said:


> Will be for the Floyd armstrong memorial shoot, held at crooked arrow archery in picton ontario. Just for the sake of knowing, this is just me feeling things out with archers relative in the archery community, and nothing is written in stone. We want to hold a shoot FOR shooters BY shooters, and make it a yearly thing in floyd's honor. I will be attending the ASA's down south this year and hope to bring some of that quality back home, but i want to know what local guys want too.
> 
> Also i see a previous post mentioning the OAA and sanctioning, for the sake of avoiding argument lets avoid anything to do with the OAA at this point.
> Thanks again.


Only mentioned it in the context of peer grouping to say it should only be done at official shoots or cash shoots. People shouldn't be scared to use those 3 letters you know.
Your shoot sounds interesting, keep us posted.


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Another feeler:
The ASA follows rules that move the dominant shooters up in class depending on their previous finishes and/or money earnings. This ends the argument that "why do i want to shoot in a class where i have to shoot against shooter X who always dominates by X number of points". An anti 'sandbagging' type rule. What about moving, anyone who has finished in the top 3 in thier class in the past year at say the OAA 3D champs OR the P&P cash shoot inclusive, up a level. For instance, MBO winners to OPEN cash, MBR winners to MBO etc. or ending it there. Classes like TRAD will have no movement.
I think this moves the top shooters into classes that stiffen the competition for them. If they choose to shoot same equipment totally their choice, after all open categories are ANY equipment. This MORE IMPORTANTLY opens the door for shooters that generally are off the podium to move up in their class, so the playing field generally stays as level as possible for everyone. Hopefully making for closely contested podiums. In the end, the best shooters will win against the best competition available to them.

Thoughts?

ALSO, a quick novelty idea. A prize for "Hidden score". Prior to everyone entering the course, at the end of the safety meeting, we have a kid draw from a basket with scores from say 330-420 on individual cards. That score is kept a secret and revealed at the end of the shoot, that score or who is closest to that score wins the prize(whatever it may be).


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## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

Topper1018 said:


> Another feeler:
> 
> ALSO, a quick novelty idea. A prize for "Hidden score". Prior to everyone entering the course, at the end of the safety meeting, we have a kid draw from a basket with scores from say 330-420 on individual cards. That score is kept a secret and revealed at the end of the shoot, that score or who is closest to that score wins the prize(whatever it may be).


nice idea but you would have to lower that score down to 100-420 or there abouts as not everyone can shoot 330 and up, especially beginners, kids and trad guys


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## thunderbolt (Oct 11, 2002)

One major consideration has to be in course layout. Everyone keeps asking for a challenging course, but you have to remember there are new shooters as well. Keep it a challenge but not so tough that people leave frustrated because all of their arrows are out there somewhere...


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## IrregularPulse (Sep 22, 2012)

short drive and a free weekend gets me there. Friendly people and another free weekend gets me back


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

rockin_johny said:


> nice idea but you would have to lower that score down to 100-420 or there abouts as not everyone can shoot 330 and up, especially beginners, kids and trad guys


Speak for yourself, 330 is a bad day


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

In the end it's your choice as to how it's run. Archers will want to know up front is this a fun shoot or a money shoot or both. I love to compete however if there is no incentive for me to leave my friends. (cash round) why would I. Ted has a great format that leaves room for all. Last year North Bay did a peer group the last day that seemed to work well. Also a good percentage of our archers only shoot once or twice per year as hunting is paramount for them. Hope you find the right combination we need more people like yourself.
Cheers Charles


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## rockin_johny (Oct 9, 2004)

Bigjono said:


> Speak for yourself, 330 is a bad day


Sorry..Jono...I was speaking up for Wayne Should have made that clear :wink:


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

I think we have a unique opportunity here to bridge the gap with new comers and more experienced shooters as many from either side may come just out of respect for Floyd, i know a handful of beginners that are very excited to attend and i want to be able to show them a great time and expose them to the competitive archers but still allow them to shoot the course and have fun, without having to post their scores against guys toppleing them by 100 points. Hence my NC class idea and trying to even the playing field by moving dominant shooters up. That being said, I want the pressure point shootdown to give these people someone to aspire to be like. The ASA has a proven format and while i want us to remain an entity our own i think following the guidelines of what works puts us on the right path. I fully intend to have a good chat with Ted of P&P at some point and gather some knowledge gained by experience running such a successful shoot. This thread is all aimed at feeling out, i know exactly how i would do it given all the power to do so, but thats dictating, like previously said i want a format BY shooters FOR shooters. Keep the info coming guys i want this thread steadily at the top of the forumn.


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

topper, so far this is sounding good, if and when you put this into action, count me in.

@johny, wayne who??? a bad day of 330. does he give lessons I could use some tips form a guy shooting scores like that on a bad day.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

rockin_johny said:


> Sorry..Jono...I was speaking up for Wayne Should have made that clear :wink:


Lol 😀


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

well guys Ted from pandp archery we have 125 shooters per day and done by 2-3 on day one and second day we peer group for cash class and trad as well because of cash payout there as well...even on the second day with novelty shoot and tie breaker shoot offs and award presentation with terrific prizes no t shirts and hats....we are done everything by 4 pm usually or close to it;;;things that speed up shoots lots are I patrol course and speed up slow groups and if there is a empty lane then I get on slow groups tale... I only have 4 people per group unless family with young kids and they know to let people shoot through...course patrolling is biggest club problem...should be done on 4 wheeler so people know the person will be though soon... simple things like water on course at 2-4 spots helps too ..as people aren`t dragged out and it makes club a easy 100 dollars... this year I`m really thinking of 5 target shoot down for top 5 in cash and trad cash payout classes...the crowds love this ...cheering whistling pre shot allowed ...in world fita they cheer right through each archers shots...now that's pressure...and may the best man or women win....also if a woman wants to enter in cash class and shoot against the men then go for it ....just a few thoughts and good prizes bring the people back year after year...oh and clubs have A SCORE BOARD DON`T TRANSCRIBE SCORES 5 TIMES people want to see where they finished and if set up as soon as last score in u can present awards..






have cards out and let archer fill them in.... have classes and age group full size posters at reg table...put names on score board directly... forget the books waste of time make sure can be protected from weather elements... also then you can check with archer if they are in right class at beginning not at end when you read out his score and he is in wrong class then the big suffle starts...and all of it has to be adjusted....


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Here is the link to the "official" update thread. Hailee will post the sponsored prizes and any rules etc that need mentioning here. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2159872&highlight=Floyd+Armstrong


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## M.cook (Jul 12, 2008)

shoot down sounds awesome! having the 14's count, even better. getting to watch the best shooters in the area trying to knock each other off would be a blast!

would air horns be allowed during the shoot off?


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Topper I like move up thing but to get into cash class you pay extra money entry fee...some guys don`t have the extra cash... I want numbers up not down as you can see numbers up put more cash on the table.. used to think the same way ..what I have trouble with is good shooters stepping down to like hunter class just to maybe win a major shoot ...as hunter shorter distances... just my opinion...


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## Haileebird (Jul 4, 2013)

I understand your point ted. But in reality the very thought that a top shooter who would be qualified to be moved up, could not afford an extra 10$ is laughable. Unfortunately this is an idea that works out over a period of time, and doesnt offer a quick fix. Initially, people may not be happy with the rule but in the long run you make everyone in the class who would otherwise not have had a chance at the podium much happier. Competition fuels addiction. Hunter class shooters should however be subject to the same rules, only the "bar" in which they have to meet in order to be moved up should be a bit higher. Just to avoid prematurely advanceing novice level shooters, after all, the Hunter class is instituted for shooters at the novice level. The line needs to be drawn for them. Perhaps a first place finish and at least one top 3 finish in the hunter class at accredited shoots in the previous year. For this we need to indicate what will be 'accredited' shoots. I for one cast my vote for includeing your P&P shoot to start, as everyones opinion on it seems to be positive. Once again, longer term goals but if we had 5-6 credible shoots a year we would be cooking with peanut oil!


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

M.cook said:


> shoot down sounds awesome! having the 14's count, even better. getting to watch the best shooters in the area trying to knock each other off would be a blast!
> 
> would air horns be allowed during the shoot off?


Haha air horns might jazz up the adrenaline level, but lets add a clause that air horns and applause may only be used after all of the five shooters have completed their current shot inside the one minute time frame. Respect for the shooters needs to be maintained at times when they need the utmost concentration. I urge anyone wondering about the format to watch BOWJUNKY videos covering the ASA shootdowns on youtube. I like the format with two pullers and visible scorecard numbers at each target, as well as a running scoreboard during the shootdown as well. This way everyone watching is informed of the scored value and current standing of any competitor


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

What you are doing is admirable and only the test of time will prove its workability. Obviously modelling after the ASA rather than the IBO or OAA formats is a departure from the norm. As we are all individual

clubs we can all pick whatever format we want for our respective club events. Maybe what you are doing will rub off on other clubs if it proves to be successful and will boost attendance. You are on the right

track and I for one hope it is a huge success because it can only bolster archery in Ontario. I am sure a substantial number of Durham Archers will be attending. Good luck.


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

I've heard of archers staying in a class to stay on top and even attending major tournaments knowing only two or three in said class would attend. But to drop back in classes with no good reason would stick out like a sore thumb. I would think this type of person would just simply not attend if required to move up. I've always wanted to shoot your course in nice weather with no snow or freezing rain. Looking forward to it.


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

You forgot 80 K winds Charles, we had all 3 in one day.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Hailbeebird to step up to cash class is a lot more than ten dollars .... cash class is a 100 dollar entry almost ... and surprising enough I don`t have any repeat winners other than in the trad category ...some have made podium a couple of times but no repeat cash class FIRST place finishers ...so money can be a issue...


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

topper please send me a link re shootdowns I like to have the edge on fun things ask waneman as I think he had his best ever podium with a shoot off...and I mean in a personal achievement and feeling like a pro ....


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Hailbeebird to step up to cash class is a lot more than ten dollars .... cash class is a 100 dollar entry almost ... and surprising enough I don`t have any repeat winners other than in the trad category ...some have made podium a couple of times but no repeat cash class FIRST place finishers ...so money can be a issue...


Sorry ted that was me on hailees account. lol. Our format idea adds 10-20 dollars to standard shoot fee for cash class with 100% payback to the shooters, I may have been a touch on the exaggerate side stating 10$. Money most certainly can be an issue and if it is that crippleing, one must be ok with that shooter not showing up. It must be black and white with no grey IMO. 

Also, bowjunky link for an open pro shootdown http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA0uuW3Nwkk
Let me know what you think Ted. 

Also I want to thank you guys for your info again and for the support for what we are trying to accomplish for shooters in ontario. It wont happen over night, but rest assured I will put my everything into it. Though only 26 i am an archery veteran from way back, anyone that was in the game 2000-2003 may know me. 3d archery was my passion then and is again now, we as shooters simpley deserve better than what is offered to us currently in my humble opinion, and i want to be part in making this happen.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

The shoot down look fun, shame it's only for compound classes.
Most clubs round here don't have enough decent targets to set out a course and a shoot down course as well.
I agree that 3D shooters here deserve much better than they get, that is probably why the iBO attracts so many of us. The clubs need to step up and do more I think. It's a shame your shoot is so far, it looks like it might have been fun.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

bigjono if I do shoot down trad will have to do it as well as it is a cash class... you don`t need a ton of targets for shoot down only 5 targets and the top 5 only shoot ..so they all can shoot at same target ...then next target ..etc etc shouldn`t take more than 20 minuets or so per round ..and a great crowd pleaser......I think I have those truck air horns somewhere...lol lol oh and I just bought a cannon as well for the shoot lol lol its only 2 feet long... can`t wait...


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

The shoot down idea is interesting and move up rules are fine, but that is all I would take from ASA as we have most of our classes based around IBO and our rules are as well. The IBO events are closest to our region if you chose to shoot in the US. Most of the major ASA events are in Texas Alabama Louisiana area and Most archers here won't be set up for their rules.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Bow bandit said:


> The shoot down idea is interesting and move up rules are fine, but that is all I would take from ASA as we have most of our classes based around IBO and our rules are as well. The IBO events are closest to our region if you chose to shoot in the US. Most of the major ASA events are in Texas Alabama Louisiana area and Most archers here won't be set up for their rules.


I agree with this. To shoot ASA I think you also need McKenzie targets whereas us that shoot iBO prefer Rinehart now.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

we are shooting oaa with a ted style shootdown lol lol trad and cash classes ...unless a lot of people oppose it ....who`s in....


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Bow bandit said:


> The shoot down idea is interesting and move up rules are fine, but that is all I would take from ASA as we have most of our classes based around IBO and our rules are as well. The IBO events are closest to our region if you chose to shoot in the US. Most of the major ASA events are in Texas Alabama Louisiana area and Most archers here won't be set up for their rules.


 Your exactly right. I plan on developing a structure BASED on ASA format, but BASED on IBO classes and scoreing. Center 11's, max yardages as per IBO, all unknown distance except for K50, 14 ring in play only during shootdown, simplified classes (OPEN$, MBO, MBR, TRAD, BB, FSL(fingers) and NC plus masters ,youth and ladies classes). 5 grains per pound rule for speed (ASA limits to 280 and 290, although I personally think this is PERFECT, most archers will be unaccepting of that).
Perhaps we call it SABBO? Sport Archery for Better Bowhunting Organization? lol


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Bigjono said:


> The shoot down look fun, shame it's only for compound classes.
> Most clubs round here don't have enough decent targets to set out a course and a shoot down course as well.
> I agree that 3D shooters here deserve much better than they get, that is probably why the iBO attracts so many of us. The clubs need to step up and do more I think. It's a shame your shoot is so far, it looks like it might have been fun.


I would wander a guess we are closer to you than P&P. We havent made the decision to exclude trad from shootdowns if it will be a money class. Show me 10 shooters and we will make it happen.
With the expectation that we will put on a great shoot, the choice for everyone then becomes to drive TO competition, or AWAY from it. lol, I will be driving 25 hours to the Florida PRO/AM in a week.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Hey, I really don't mind driving to shoots but shoots like P&P just come at the wrong time of year for me. There are only so many archery weekends I can fit in :-( what with the iBO TC, Trad Worlds and Worlds along with the Rinehart100, i think the current Mrs Lewis would stick my bow where the sun don't shine if I tried another one. Maybe next year.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

bigjono wayne and joe might be glad to hear pandp not on your agenda for this year lol lol ...to bad you`d like our venue..


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

You know what Ted, Wayne can hold his own anywhere, I've seen him shoot plenty of top scores. Not sure who who Joe is though.
Never say never though, I'm still planning my shoots out and I'd love to get to yours now I'm fit again.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

you know joe florent from Madawaska were we first met at the provincials when you first arrived in Canada right ...hope my memory is correct here...


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> you know joe florent from Madawaska were we first met at the provincials when you first arrived in Canada right ...hope my memory is correct here...


Yep, got ya. A nice guy if I remember right. Wouldn't mind getting up there to shoot again sometime.


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> bigjono wayne and joe might be glad to hear pandp not on your agenda for this year lol lol ...to bad you`d like our venue..


don't forget about the guy form new Zealand I was in the shoot off with, he was very good also, hopefully he is still around and come out again.


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## DODGE-3D (Feb 17, 2005)

What division do you shoot in the ASA Topper?


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Will be shooting open B most likely this year


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## Fasteel (Dec 27, 2013)

Haileebird said:


> I understand your point ted. But in reality the very thought that a top shooter who would be qualified to be moved up, could not afford an extra 10$ is laughable. Unfortunately this is an idea that works out over a period of time, and doesnt offer a quick fix. Initially, people may not be happy with the rule but in the long run you make everyone in the class who would otherwise not have had a chance at the podium much happier. Competition fuels addiction. Hunter class shooters should however be subject to the same rules, only the "bar" in which they have to meet in order to be moved up should be a bit higher. Just to avoid prematurely advanceing novice level shooters, after all, the Hunter class is instituted for shooters at the novice level. The line needs to be drawn for them. Perhaps a first place finish and at least one top 3 finish in the hunter class at accredited shoots in the previous year. For this we need to indicate what will be 'accredited' shoots. I for one cast my vote for includeing your P&P shoot to start, as everyones opinion on it seems to be positive. Once again, longer term goals but if we had 5-6 credible shoots a year we would be cooking with peanut oil!


Is sporting clays still strong in Ontario? It was strong in Alberta 5 years ago until Master Class was introduced and shooting clays went from a lot of fun to a lot less fun. With sporting all of the shoot fees really went into the prizing for the higher classes of shooters. So master class guys won X money and C class guys won different money. Point I'm trying to make is expand hunter class for guys that want to go out and have some fun. The more fun it is the more of the hunter class guys will continue to support shoots. FS


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I can honestly say that prize money has never been a factor in doing a shoot for me. I've been lucky enough to win a couple if big purses over the years but I would have attended those shoots whatever. If someone is a pro archer I get it, that's their job, but most just shoot for the love of the game.
If shoots are going to have a money shoot off then all class winners should be in it, it just needs the same pegs as the course to even the field.


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

That only works if if everyone is paying more money, the money classes usually pay higher fees to shoot them. The other factor you are forgetting is that the idea behind money classes is to move up the more experienced archers away from the beginners. It would just creat sandbagging to get in the money round at the end of the day. Money class works best the way Ted does it at P&P.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Bow bandit said:


> That only works if if everyone is paying more money, the money classes usually pay higher fees to shoot them. The other factor you are forgetting is that the idea behind money classes is to move up the more experienced archers away from the beginners. It would just creat sandbagging to get in the money round at the end of the day. Money class works best the way Ted does it at P&P.


I get your point, just thinking out loud. Winning $500 or $1000 is always nice but I only spend it on bows and get in trouble with the wife again anyway 😀


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

shoot off is score added to your present score... is the way I`m doing it...


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> shoot off is score added to your present score... is the way I`m doing it...


Good idea Ted, for a man of your age 😀😀


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## MADZUKI (Jan 26, 2014)

We, as a family, have been out of the 3d scene for several years now. What we enjoyed most was just getting out there together and having fun. Didn't matter if it was a hour away or three,just go and meet new people see new places.
Getting back into it again this spring, kids are older now, I think it's gonna be fun again !


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## crazymoose (May 17, 2005)

If your looking for the pure enjoyment of archery on and off the course with some laughs thrown in,the P & P Charity Tournament is the place to be.
Most importantly the Perth Hospital benefits and so do those who attend and support such a worthy cause.
A fantastic venue hosted by Ted and his support staff.
Can't wait for the fireworks display again this year.lol!!! :thumbs_up :canada:


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## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

crazymoose said:


> If your looking for the pure enjoyment of archery on and off the course with some laughs thrown in,the P & P Charity Tournament is the place to be.
> Most importantly the Perth Hospital benefits and so do those who attend and support such a worthy cause.
> A fantastic venue hosted by Ted and his support staff.
> *Can't wait for the fireworks display again this year.lol!!!* :thumbs_up :canada:


Point them up towards the sky Ted. LOL!!!


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Look what I got today for sundays start as a cannon st












art not shot gun lol lol


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

two feet long


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)




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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

No offence guys, but the term hi-jack is suiting alot of this thread right now. 

Ted, you are thinking correctly, the shootdown scores are added onto the existing scores of the top 5 shooters. I strongly urge EVERYONE to watch for bowjunkys video(youtube) of the pro shootdown in florida this past weekend as soon as it is up. One only needs to see that to know how fast things can sway with 14 in play. Hopkins came roaring back to 2nd place after being down 12 from the lead and Tim G hammered (pun intended) out his win starting down 6 from the lead. It was INTENSE, I was there. Literally one of the most exciting things I have ever seen. 

I also gained some major perspective on big shoots and organization, down there rules dont need to be enforced, there is just the aire that they are understood and respected. No loudmouths and no one trying to be a hero, just a ton of people having a great time. The highest contributing factor being everyone is grouped with their peers ALWAYS. People you have never met before, and all of them are curteous and polite, the entire atmosphere is professional and competitive. The absolute best shoot anyone could hope to attend. I was truly taken aback. This is a format that WORKS. The proof is in the pudding. My class alone was nearly 90 shooters and payouts will go down to approximately 17th place. Each 20 target loop was shot in roughly 3 hours. PERFECT. We deserve more shooting opportunities held to those standards u[p here


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## greygrouse (Mar 22, 2012)

Some of us are willing to rise early, drive a few hundred kilometres, shoot, then return home. Shotgun starts, 2 target loops and 4 shooters to a group seem to keep an event moving. Respect for the course rules and other archers don't hurt either. If the day is hot, make certain the coolers are stocked. An organized, friendly competition is worth the drive anytime. I hope Floyd's shoot is a big success. Hey, it's only a 5 hour run from the Frozen North.


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