# please explain this back tension pre load



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Essentially, it's transferring the weight to the larger back muscles and using the back muscles to build up the tension (amount you're holding against the wall) to steady your sight picture and keep you from creeping forward.


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## pops (Oct 10, 2015)

then i did under stand after all thanks


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

I recommend that you ask these types of questions in the Coaches Corner Forum on this site.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

There are different ways to use back tension, one of the worst ways is to be a valley sitter and then progressively squeeze the back muscles and add tension to your system and the wall during the shot. Thisthe reason why so many people struggle with pulling the pin off the x and also dropping out the bottom and weird float patterns. Why because the pressure on the wall is changing during the whole shot.

The above description is not back tension preload.

Back tension preload is where you come to anchor and before you start your shot you squeeze your back muscles so that you pull into the wall with a preset amount of pressure that feels the same every shot. then you use a firing method that allows you to fire the release without changing the amount of pressure, this is when your shooting will progress to a new level.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Padgett said:


> There are different ways to use back tension, one of the worst ways is to be a valley sitter and then progressively squeeze the back muscles and add tension to your system and the wall during the shot. Thisthe reason why so many people struggle with pulling the pin off the x and also dropping out the bottom and weird float patterns. Why because the pressure on the wall is changing during the whole shot.


Just my finding, and only because I have to shoot my compounds this way because of my style of release aid: it has turned out for me that instability when pulling into the wall was due to "bad" (for me) form. when out of alignment, all the little muscles in both arms have to engage to "assist" the big muscles in executing the shot, because the back muscles don't have the "leverage" to maintain/increase the tension on their own. That's what causes the scope, for me, to suddenly start wandering around when pulling into the wall. 

When I find the bow starting to wiggle as I pull through the shot, about 9 times out of 10 I can also detect tension in the forearm muscles in the bow arm as well as the draw arm and I have to let down and start over with better alignment. The other 1 time out of that 10, it's fatigue and I just need to take a break....

Again, that's only a personal finding because of the style of my particular shot. 

OTOH, I've shot a hinge maybe a total of what... 15 times? and of course you know that release far better than I do. So this may be inapplicable, but just in case it helps....

DM


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

PS: sorry just realized I'm sorta dragging this off topic.... too much coffee this am... I beg forgiveness.

DM


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## brad91x (Jul 12, 2013)

When you guys say squeeze back muscles together do you mean like pulling your shoulder blades together


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

brad91x said:


> When you guys say squeeze back muscles together do you mean like pulling your shoulder blades together


For me it's not so much about squeezing any particular part of my back as it is removing as much tension from my arms as possible and transferring that load to my back muscles.

-Grant


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

grantmac hit it on the nose,not a squeeze,just a transfer. I might add,that if draw length isn't perfect,it can be an effort in futility.


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

grantmac said:


> For me it's not so much about squeezing any particular part of my back as it is removing as much tension from my arms as possible and transferring that load to my back muscles.
> 
> -Grant


What he said


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

The term Back Tension is used so much as a phrase in threads with a variety of releases and discussions, it is usually just thrown out there with no explanation. 

1. Back tension is always present in your shot during the draw cycle and the execution

2. loss of back tension causes a shooter to creep forward and a ton of issues will rear their ugly head.

3. Back tension can be used to rotate a hinge or trigger a thumb trigger as your firing engine.

4. Back tension can be used to as a way to maintain a steady amount of pressure on the wall. 

5. If you are a valley sitter you can lock up your back muscles and try and stay consistent in the valley not really applying that to the wall = Poor Usage and not advised.

6. When using back tension as a preload to your system it can compliment your float pattern and your firing engine.

Unfortunately back tension preload is very rarely discussed, it took me a long time to finally put a finger on how the pro shooters are using it. When you see a pro shooter setting up a bow to his exact draw length with the exact d-loop length you are seeing him set up the bow so that he can have the perfect feel that he expects to have when shooting which is his back tension preload on the wall. I don't know why they don't discuss it and tell us what they are doing, I almost think that they became a pro and have learned their draw length setting through trial and error based on performance and then they just stick with it but didn't actually approach it with setting up their back tension preload as a specific area to be covered.

Weather they existed or not I am the main reason a few of the phrases keep showing up because I needed them to break down some of the overly used general phrases such as back tension. 

Firing Engine: A well defined process that fires a release.

Back Tension Preload: Coming to anchor and sitting in the valley and barely touching the wall, then you increase the pressure into the wall by using your back muscles so that you are solid into the wall and not just standing next to it.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Valley Sitter: Coming to anchor and barely touching the wall but not pulling into the wall, basically you are standing next to the wall but not leaning on it at all.

This is the latest phrase that I have been using anytime I talk about back tension preload, to me it is a great eye opener to a shooter that he may need to take a closer look at how he is beginning his shot.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Here's a video example. https://youtu.be/LJ9NiL2Nt_M


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Back tension preload really compliments a back tension firing engine, I still train with my back tension firing engine from time to time and I do enjoy shooting with it and right now it performs much better than it did back when I was a valley sitter. 

When you are a valley sitter and you try and use back tension only to fire a release you are sitting in the valley and as you start your shot as you are aiming and increase the tension in your back your sight pin will immediately start pulling off and you end up fighting with it.. This happens because of the huge change in pressure on the wall and your aiming simply suffers.

Now if you apply some preload to your wall now you have a much more solid feel and as you slightly add more tension to the wall your system can soak it up without the pin being affected so much and the shot moves on much smoother.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

brad91x said:


> When you guys say squeeze back muscles together do you mean like pulling your shoulder blades together





grantmac said:


> For me it's not so much about squeezing any particular part of my back as it is removing as much tension from my arms as possible and transferring that load to my back muscles.
> -Grant





D.Short said:


> grantmac hit it on the nose,not a squeeze,just a transfer. I might add,that if draw length isn't perfect,it can be an effort in futility.





sharkred7 said:


> What he said


I'll join in. Something of the transfer.

Of preload. Maybe steps up to are needed. At full draw let the pin find the bull's eye or wanted place of impact, preload helps settle things and execution has the pin virtually stopped. Care to elaborate?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

The whole point behind back tension preload is having your draw length set absolutely perfect so that when you come to anchor and touch the wall your elbow is very slightly short of being lined up with your arrow perfectly. So when you apply some back tension into the wall your elbow now moves that fraction of a inch and now lines up perfectly. 

If your draw length is to short you will have to struggle to get there and create problems.

If you are to long in draw length you will be overly extended and struggle to apply any back tension to the wall and most of it is your body bottoming out especially if you aren't overly flexible. Again causing problems.

For me I treated this as a shooting session, where I had access to a draw board and press and I twisted my bow string until I found a wonderful draw length setting where I came to anchor and was sitting against the wall and when I applied a little preload it was perfect.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

As far as the steps in your shooting you use your normal shot routine and as you come to anchor and the pin is moving over to the spot you want to hit you go ahead and apply the preload so that you are done with this step before your pin even shows up to the spot. 

Why? 

1. Because you aren't wasting time by doing it before the pin arrives

2. Once you apply the preload your pin float will be nice and consistent and sweet as you approach the spot, if you wait on the pin to get to the spot and then apply it you will see the pin move and you are now freaked out and also wasting time and adding stress to the shot.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Here is a very important thing to consider:

You should feel a sensation of pulling into the wall, now if you have a hard hand grip on the release then you are forcing the cable stops to bend the cables or something to justify that sensation. 

The more acceptable way to do it is to shoot with a soft hand and when you apply this preload to the system most of that preload is soaked up by the hand slightly stretching and a small percentage of the cable stops pulling into the cables. This is a much better way to get there than with the hard hand.

If you shoot a bow with limb stops then your soft hand is going to be the primary source of give to the system to store the preload into the wall


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

How does back tension preload differ from transfer? Which one sets the draw side scapula in a more favorable position? 

RCR's vid is good but it basically complements GRIV's Thing a Week #9, Part 2.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

It is hard for me to answer that with a limited definition of your term "Transfer"

What I can say is that to me Back Tension Preload is done before you start your shot, this allows a consistent amount of pressure to exist in your system through out your shot and you then run a firing engine that doesn't add or subtract that tension. This allows you to do something really important and that is to shoot your shot with a clean and natural float pattern that is not being screwed with by some varying amount of pressures added to the wall. 

So if you are transferring tension into the wall during the shot with your back muscles you are choosing to do something slightly different than using your back muscles to apply back tension to the wall before the shot.

So for me sure I have some transfer in my system but it is done before I start my shot.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

This is something that plagued me for a long time in my shooting, I would be standing there and the hinge not firing and I would transfer a little more something into the shot and my pin would leave the spot and the hinge would fire and I would miss the spot. For years I battled this stinking issue and finally I realized that I have got to learn how to execute my shot without adding pressures. So this lead to me adding my pressures before I start my shot so that they could remain consistent and not be changing. This also lead me to realizing that there must be a firing engine that runs to fire the release separate from them and not reliant on them.

Back tension preload makes me solid

My firing engine fires my release

My pin floats on the spot I want to hit

They do their jobs independently and without messing with each other or relying on each other.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I think it would essentially be the same thing. Basically using the back muscles to steady and hold your shot. 

The way I explain is very much how GRIV does. Relaxing the lower neck/upper shoulder muscles and transfering that tension to the back and using the back to hold the bow against the wall. 

The reason for relaxing the set of muscles I explain is to not hold tension in them and cause the shoulders to rise and create a holding low or bobbing problem. Also, it helps with holding steadier for longer time frames during a round because the back muscles are larger and able to support more weight. Also, the core muscles are what your entire body relies on and builds strength from. When you can support yourself using core strength, you'll have a steadier and stronger application.


Rick! said:


> How does back tension preload differ from transfer? Which one sets the draw side scapula in a more favorable position?
> 
> RCR's vid is good but it basically complements GRIV's Thing a Week #9, Part 2.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I think I'm on the same page. Having dual hard stops, rock hard wall, there is a fine line of on the wall, pulling into the wall and too hard on the wall. And all hard walls (limb stops) don't give the same "feel." I've had a few of rock hard wall bows. You have to learn them. I shot all with a thumb release. When I recently switched (trying to) a hinge a whole new world opened up. And I believe I'm on the same page with draw length being imperative. All 3 of my thumb releases and two of hinges are darn perfect, but 3rd hinge feels a 1/4"+ long and only shows maybe 1/8" and this feels like a "mile." 
All of these bows are/were set to 80% or very near that. 
My 3 Martin Shadowcats, 41 1/2" and 41 1/4" atas, one limb stop, cams slaved together. Hard as the wall was there was also "give." Perhaps it was the positive stop with rubber cover and cushion on the limb and length of bow string.
With my MarXman, 37 1/2" ata, with dual limb stops and tiny O-rings you hit a rock wall, no give whatsoever.
My TX4 with 33 1/2" ata and dual limb stops gives another rock wall.
My MX2 with 40 1/2" ata had the same rock wall with dual stops, but with the cam system even with 80% let off you better be on the wall or the bow was taking off. 

I get a chuckle when some one with a cable stop bow tries my bows. Usually there is a very profound look on their face and/or a colorful metaphor given


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