# What effect does tiller have on nocking pt?



## arrowchucker222 (Jun 17, 2013)

I'm 1/8 positive and 1/2" high on nocking point. bare still show I need to go more. How will tiller help?
Thanks


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## arrowchucker222 (Jun 17, 2013)

86 people looked at this and no-one knows?


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## bahamaguy (Jan 12, 2015)

97 now. Sorry.


Bahamas. Hoyt Dorado. Stupid long draw length.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I've not spent the time to really study this, but it's an experiment you could easily conduct yourself. Change the tiller and watch the bare shaft... then change the nock height and check... etc. 

It would take some time, but really that's the only way to know how it will affect bows that YOU shoot.


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## DarkLightStar (Apr 7, 2016)

If memory serves, you shoot barebow, no? Since you're probably shooting 3-under, it is considered advisable to have an even (or zero) tiller or even possibly a negative tiller, depending on whether you string-walk or not.

For me, a zero tiller and 1/8" positive tiller both hold pretty well on a target as I get through the clicker and still feel very solid in the grip. But the bow has a tendency to make the top nocking point slip after a few shots and that is when I let the bow tell me what it wants.

I love the idea of having a zero tiller...one less thing to worry about...but the bow and my shooting style eventually dictated that I need a little positive tiller.

Tie a single white loop on top of one of your nocking points and have a friend watch if it bounces up and down after the shot. When you find your best setting the limbs will come to closure in unison. If it's kicking up and down after the shot you still have an imbalance.

Hope this helps.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

well i know a few really good archers who set their nocking point and if their NP is a bit low they put a crank on their top limb and that moves it up a bit
and the same thing if the NP is a bit high-put a crank on the bottom limb


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## lowellhigh79 (Aug 3, 2012)

arrowchucker222 said:


> I'm 1/8 positive and 1/2" high on nocking point. bare still show I need to go more. How will tiller help?
> Thanks


Just think of it like it's a tug of war between the limbs. More positive tiller (weakening the top limb) will move your n.p. down, less tiller (cranking in the top bolt/strengthening the top limb) will move your n.p. up. Likewise, increasing brace height by twisting your string (shortening) will exaggerate the imbalance and move your n.p. down (in a positive tiller). Hope this helps


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

Tiller adjustments can also fine tune your balance point when holding the bow for tighter long range grouping. 

I think zero tiller for 3 under, and 1/8th offset for split finger is a fairly common place to start tuning. 

So I think the Pivot point is altered by release style, and perfected by tiller adjustments for long range tuning.

Are you moving the nocking point where the bare shafts strike? Higher for high, Lower for low?


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Tiller does not impact nock height, at least not in a significant amount. Tiller controls the load on the limbs, which effects how the grip feels in your hand. Think of it as changing the pitch of the arrow shelf slightly at full draw. Target archers use it to fine tune the float of their sight, to correct if it tends to drift upwards or downwards.

Many barebow archers use even or slightly negative tiller, presumably to keep the balance of the bow due to shooting three under instead of split. You will find others, however, who leave it as-is and shoot just fine. Best thing to do is experiment and see what works best for you. I prefer an even tiller myself.

Finally, note that finger pressure in your string hand can have a significant impact. That is easy to test too, just shoot bareshafts while you emphasize different fingers. Grip can do it too, like heeling your bow.

I hope that helps!


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## arrowchucker222 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thank you very much! I have some work to do it sounds like.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

We used to tiller tune recurve and compound bows all the time. When you turn the lower limb in, the nocking point would lower making the arrow hit higher. The opposite is true when the top limb is turned in. After tiller tuning, we had to move the nocking point back to tune. Yes. Changing the tiller moves the nocking point up or down depending on limb tighten or loosened.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

If you make the tiller more positive, the nock point height shrinks (back of the arrow now lower in the bow, thus higher launch angle). 

The best way to tune, in my experience, is FIRST) adjust tiller until the bow sounds great, then SECONDLY) adjust nock point to get bare shafts playing nice with vaned arrows. If, instead, you only try to get the bare shafts matching the vaned arrows by adjust tiller to move nock point, you're likely to have unintended consequences in other segments of your tune (limbs now out of sync, perhaps clearance problems, etc)


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Adjusting only one tiller bolt will move the nocking point up or down slightly. 

Adjusting both tiller bolts equally will not. 


Chris


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Best to test and see for yourself. I tried using two different sets of limbs (mediums on a 25" riser) and found no detectable impact on nock height when bareshaft tuning at 20y and 30y. I think if you do the geometry it's a couple mm on a 68" bow for typical tiller ranges. The main effect is to subtly alter the pressure in the grip and therefore the float of the sight. I set mine at zero because (1) it is easy to replicate and confirm and (2) shooting barebow I use three-under and figure that puts my fingers right around the middle of the bow as I walk the string. Your mileage may vary.


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## camperjim (Oct 22, 2016)

To me it seems that the issue goes beyond practical considerations. Sure if you change the tiller, the nocking height is going to change (as a couple of posters mentioned above). But I think the effect is too small to be of practical concern. At least that is the case for minor tiller adjustments and I cannot think of a case when I make a big adjustment. String stretch and adding or subtracting some twists will also move the nock height. Again that effect should be minimal unless someone is making large changes. Personally I have a difficult time tying a set of nocking points within a 32th or so of an inch. Not only that but I don't know what nock height is ideally perfect. I usually just try to keep a bit high, thinking that helps avoid any issue with the fletching clearance.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

At longer distances a 1mm difference in nock point height is the Grand Canyon between a 'great' tune and an 'okay' tune. Bare shafts that 'want' to go to the same spot as vaned shafts result in a tune that is significantly more forgiving (i.e. more points for the same shooting skill level!). If you play with your tiller to try to get a great simultaneous arrival point of upper and lower limb, and a balance with your grip pressure, then make sure you bareshaft test/tune again and adjust your nock point the tiny bit that it may need to be adjusted.

Grand Canyon ...


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