# Help! Element Shooting Nock High!



## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

I like to paper tune before I walk back tune, but this has me a little puzzled. I'm shooting:
26.5 in. Easton Flatlines 400, with 100 gr. tips. According to Ontarget this spine is good (a tad stiff). 
60#, 28in. DL Hoyt Element. 
The rest is an AAE Pro Drop (similar to a VT Limbdriver).
The cams are timed and both hit the stops at exactly the same time (top cam slightly ahead). 

I started with a 1 in. nock high tear. My nocking point was set about 1/8 in. above square. By lowering the nocking point to square I was able to to clean up the tear a bit where it is now, about 1/2 in. nock high. If I keep lowering the nocking point to clean up the tear, it will be below "even" or below square. This doesn't sound right. Am I overlooking something here? Any advise?


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## WVaBuckHunter (Sep 30, 2010)

Have you checked the rest timing to ensure that your not getting fletching contact? The fletching could be contacting the rest causing it to come off of the bow tail high.


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

Increase poundage to 62+ lbs and see what happens..its acting a bit stiff, the arrow. Check how hard your arrow nock connects to the string...if its tight, that alone will give you a paper tear high. Not saying that cam timing won't get you the rest of the 1/2" but if not that is where I'd look. Nock pinch can be a killer..you should be able to strongly slap the arrow off the string when nocked at rest...otherwise its too tight. After that poundage can play a role.


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## mick75 (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi Reverend,

All of my recent hoyt's have shoot tail high. This is better than tail low, and personally i would be happy with a 1/2 inch high tear. What i am interested in is what tear you are getting at different distances to see what the arrow is doing. I use 1 meter, 3 meters and 10 meters. What i find is the tear is very small at 1 m, the worse at 3 m and corrected by 10 m. It also depends on what vanes you are using. If you have say 2 inch blazers than by 10 m the arrow will be a bullet hole as the vanes have a lot of steering ability. If you have very small target vanes such as flex fletch 187 than the arrow may still show a tear.

So what can you do? If the tear is corrected by 10 metres and the bow is grouping well i would be happy. If you want to play, you will find a weaker blade will probably fix the tear, but the bow may not group as well. You would have to try it. I use the trophy taker and can change the thickness of the blade as i assume you can. The weaker the blade, the less the high tear will be.

What else can you try? Making a larger tied nocking point either below or above the arrow to change the pressure on the d-loop. Possibly changing the timing slightly and advancing one cam more than the other. Larger vanes will help stabilize the arrow faster. 

It is more than likely the vertical nock travel on the bow. I doubt a change in spine will make any difference.

let me know about the tear at different distances and how you go. good luck. dont stress over 1/2 inch high. How does the bow group??

mick


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Ok for replies gang. Some of it makes sense. I did notice that the nocks I'm using (Beiter Asymetricals) are quite a bit tighter than the Easton G nocks. That alone is worth invstigating. I also have an arrow that I can make about an inch longer to see if spine is a factor (can't increase weight, as I'm maxed out). Also I will play with rest, rest timing and blade thickness if all else fails. i'll keep you posted.


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## Boogels (Jan 4, 2008)

If I understand you correctly then your arrow face tip down when your nock point is at 1/8" above centre of Berger hole?

If that is the case then your Hoyt will shoot tail high.

Arrow should be Square with your nock point set to 1/8th.

All my Hoyts tune at 1/8th so it will probably for you as well but then lift your rest


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## Elgavilan (Feb 7, 2010)

Check the bottom cam draw stop and make sure it is in the correct hole for the draw mods you are shooting. If it is off and the bow is timed that way then the vertical nock travel will be off.

Mike


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## insatiable (Feb 8, 2005)

I shoot the same bow and set up but i tune perfectlly w/340 spine. The bow shoots bare shafts perfectly straight out to 30 yds.
400 spine acts too weak w/my bow, I tried them alot but never tuned good.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

insatiable said:


> I shoot the same bow and set up but i tune perfectlly w/340 spine. The bow shoots bare shafts perfectly straight out to 30 yds.
> 400 spine acts too weak w/my bow, I tried them alot but never tuned good.


Weak? Really? OT2 software says the .400 is a tad on the stiff side. Hmmm?


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

Sry Reverend...did'nt notice you were already at max poundage when suggesting you go to 62#. If still tail high, an obvious check is nock level, you've already done that its seems. A close second is cam timing, but again suspect you've done that. Hence me $0.02 on looking at nock or D-loop (if you have one) pinch. I have experienced where both have, independently, caused nock high tears. Absence of all that..you could try shooting the same arrow about 1/2" longer, which will be a bit weaker, and see what your tear tells you. Maybe this bow just likes it a tad longer. Good luck.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

UPDATE:
So I powder tested for arrow clearance issues. Arrow is clean. It looks good.
Then I replaced the Beiter 12-1 insert nock with a 12-2 which has a larger throat, and a better fit.
Presto! The tear cleaned right up. It looks like the culprit was a nock that was too tight. Would have never guessed it. Thanks for replies.

Next step: walk-back tune...


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## rick prather (Aug 23, 2007)

arrow a bit stiff. other than that mick 75 was close.a tied in noc set below arrow nock but above bottom knot of d-loop will act to lower tear some.


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

Your arrow spine is FINE if anything it's a good bit stiff. I shoot a 1/4" less in draw and the same lbs and shoot a much weaker shaft for outdoor target. I shoot 530 Nanos and 530 Medallion Pros. Different lengths and point weights in both shafts from one another but not much different from what your shooting, but still weaker. Hunting wise I still shoot a weaker shaft with a 3-39 ACC. Don't worry about your spine. When reading the spine in paper, which I don't like to do or believe in. The spine will show in a horizontal tear not a vertical tear anyway. If spine was really an issue that showed in paper with a compound and a release you wouldn't be able to get the super stiff arrows we shoot indoors and for 3D to shoot good through paper. 

Check your cam timing and your rest timing.


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

Kade said:


> Your arrow spine is FINE if anything it's a good bit stiff. I shoot a 1/4" less in draw and the same lbs and shoot a much weaker shaft for outdoor target. I shoot 530 Nanos and 530 Medallion Pros. Different lengths and point weights in both shafts from one another but not much different from what your shooting, but still weaker. Hunting wise I still shoot a weaker shaft with a 3-39 ACC. Don't worry about your spine. When reading the spine in paper, which I don't like to do or believe in. The spine will show in a horizontal tear not a vertical tear anyway. If spine was really an issue that showed in paper with a compound and a release you wouldn't be able to get the super stiff arrows we shoot indoors and for 3D to shoot good through paper.
> 
> Check your cam timing and your rest timing.


Just a question....why is it one can change the nock and get the tail to move all over the place? I'm not trying to be difficult as I don't read much about nock pinch being a fair to stong consideration. I changed from brand A to brand B and lost 1/2" in nock tear thru paper, consistently. Yet not a lot of folks throw it into the mix. Conversely, when I was experiencing considerable nock pinch...the stiffer the arrow the better the performance. As someone with a 27", or less, D/L shooting a 300 to 350 spined arrow of roughly the same length (many would call that waaay stiff) I got better performance w/ the tighter nock. Absolutely cam timing is an issue...but there are many factors at play here!?


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