# I have some Ultimate Hoyt Satori build plans in the works



## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Sounds like an outstanding quality outfit. I've got a 21" Satori riser fitted with Vx1000 Xcurve limbs. I really like it. As for the speed... I guess it depends on how heavy, or light an arrow you plan to shoot. With 9 or 10 gpp, I'd think you should hit the 190 mark for sure.


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## Hnh092299 (Jun 3, 2015)

220-230 seriously 


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## bobschuitema (Dec 9, 2011)

Hard to answer your question without knowing the weight of your arrows.


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## WoodsmanRyan (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm interested in hearing what weight arrows you'll be using, too. I've had 2 sets of limbs on my Satori and here are the stats (30" draw length):

Hoyt Satori w/ Dryad Epic Limbs: 66" | 42# @ 30" | 31.5" Beman Centershot 0.340 125pw 550gr | 13.1 gpp | 14strand D97 | 167fps
Hoyt Satori w/ Dryad Epic Limbs: 66" | 38# @ 30" | 31" Beman Centershot 0.400 125pw 465gr | 12.2 gpp | 14strand D97 | 173fps


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

I’ll post arrows specs once decided. Uukha limbs are a bit faster than most from what I’ve seen. I’ll see if I can get some speed data on the coach’s 58# Satori/uukha it’s vx1000 x curve on that one.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Gonna need <6GPP to hit those numbers and it won't be a bow you would hunt.


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

grantmac said:


> Gonna need <6GPP to hit those numbers and it won't be a bow you would hunt.


6.7 to 7.1 is what I think we will be using victory vaps


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

You may make the speeds you are talking about. I tested some Xcurves a few years back that were way to heavy for me at my 32 inch draw, though less than the high 60's you are talking about getting. The string pulled out of my hand way before I reached anchor and I still got 217. I figured that bow would have hit at least 230 if I could have gotten it to full draw. That was 32 inches though, and you get a huge bump in stored energy going from 27.5 to 32.


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> You may make the speeds you are talking about. I tested some Xcurves a few years back that were way to heavy for me at my 32 inch draw, though less than the high 60's you are talking about getting. The string pulled out of my hand way before I reached anchor and I still got 217. I figured that bow would have hit at least 230 if I could have gotten it to full draw. That was 32 inches though, and you get a huge bump in stored energy going from 27.5 to 32.


Not 100% certain but I think the one currently in the shop is 58” overall with 17” riser and 40# VX+ is 58lbs at 30” was 210 FPS so that was my benchmark


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Riser has arrived, couple weeks to go on limbs... Hoyt builds a nice product


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Not sure how you plan to gain 16#. That means you have a true 33" draw. If so, I strongly recommend much longer limbs.

It has been my experience that very few draw as long as they think they do, especially 30" and above.


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## Maxpetros (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm definitely not an expert by any means but I love trying new bows and in my short trad career I've owned 8 bows so far. Enough to know what i like and dont. I'm just confused why you're hoping the bow will be stacking to get to your desired weight? My draw is just over 29 inches and definitely prefer long limbs for a 17 inch riser and would think you'd want a longer bow for that draw length 

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## BowFlight (Jan 25, 2008)

I would reach out to Uukha for input on limbs for speed preference. I was told by a boyer that super recurve carbon limbs are efficient from the high 40s into the low 50s. After that the
poundage is not adding to speed. It may still throw a heavy arrow at a high speed but not necessarily at a higher velocity. And definitely post your results if you hit those numbers, that
would be impressive!


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Grant if he adds two inches to the grip and bottoms out the limbs, as well as long string/6 GPP it will be close. 
No need to run high poundage. Arrow selection is at a all time high. Small diameter arrow with micro vane and a V bar/long stabilizer. 
Dan


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Never said he couldn't hit the numbers, just that it wouldn't be a bow you'd want to hunt with.


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

#68-69 at his draw will put a 6gpp arrow in the 410gr area. Theoretically he can hunt with it.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I can't imagine that the limb maker will sanction that arrow weight and poundage.
Are we being baited into something here?


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## btsteelman (Apr 13, 2018)

Should at least be interesting, thinking outside the box!


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Limbs here waiting on custom string and 350 spine vap elites. Limbs are labeled 52# on a 68” bow medium length. With my 17” riser should be a real 65-69 lbs at 28”


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## Triboe (Jun 24, 2018)

What’s the numbers I’m curious


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Triboe said:


> What’s the numbers I’m curious


Will know soon as string and arrows arrive. All I have is limbs and riser


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## lost american (Nov 21, 2002)

Uukha has a calculator on their website that will help figure your weight. From my personal experience, if you want speed go for win and win limbs. I shoot a elite origin at 40 pds a 8 gpi arrow at 211. That's with dryad limbs. I have a set of xl at 46 they are slower than the 40 medium with the same arrow. So that is another thing to consider. I have several friends who shoot satori's with different limb combinations. That riser will never produce the speeds of a origin or black wolf. 

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## lost american (Nov 21, 2002)

In my opinion the win and win black wolf is about the fastest recurve out there. 

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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

So... let me see if I have your statement correct. You're saying that if I put your Win & Win limbs on a 17" Satori riser, set the angle and weight of the limbs the same as on your Black Wolfe 17" riser, the BW will shoot faster? I'd really like to see you prove that.

You also said, "That riser will never produce the speeds of a orgin or black wolf." I'm call'n baloney on that one, until you prove it, of course.


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## lost american (Nov 21, 2002)

Just stating what I have seen. They have different limb angles. They both have their up and downsides. On the otherside the uukha's I have shot were the ex1 Evo 2 not the x1000. There are so many limbs out there it's hard to know them all. The best balance in speed and smooth draw I have shot are the black wolf limbs and dryads. There are some faster and some better on the draw. The trick is finding what you prefer. Good luck and let us know how it works out. 

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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

210 FPS at 27 inch draw 175 grain on a cut gold tip hunter 400 spine with 4” feathers. I used a cheap Dacron string off my made in China 60” recurve maybe 14-16 strands. Just fletched up some victory vaps with 190 gr and have a 60x custom string on order and we will re chrono


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Limbs are vx+ scales 65 lbs at 27” on the Satori with the cheap string


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Was a 14 strand string so results will hopefully improve with 20 strands of fast flight


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Well I’m super satisfied we got 220 FPS with 195gr on the tip 400 spine victory VAP Sport cut to 28” with the 20 strand string brace height a little high at 8 7/8 had to order a 1” longer string today as the 56” would not let me go lower. If I can lower brace height it may pick up a bit. Satori with standard limbs is supposed to land 7.5 to 8.5 range if I remember correctly. This thing hits like a truck at 65lbs


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

What's the total arrow weight?


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## Hnh092299 (Jun 3, 2015)

Arrow wt?


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Hnh092299 said:


> Arrow wt?
> 
> Approx 420gr doing the math. That’s a hunting arrow at 220 FPS pretty impressive to me.
> 
> Vap sport 400 spine 95 gr steel outsert 100gr tip. 3” feathers


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

That makes your arrow, 6.46 grains per pound. It would be interesting to see what speed your getting with an arrow at 9 or 10 gpp. Several years ago, I'd bought a new DAS riser with KAP carbon/wood limbs. On my chrono, with a 7 gpp arrow it shot at 218 fps. I only shot the thing three times to chrono it for fear the limbs would blow up. You probably won't have to worry with the Uukha limbs but I'd be cautious with laminated limbs.

Bottom line... your numbers are about what should be expected with an arrow that light.


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> That makes your arrow, 6.46 grains per pound. It would be interesting to see what speed your getting with an arrow at 9 or 10 gpp. Several years ago, I'd bought a new DAS riser with KAP carbon/wood limbs. On my chrono, with a 7 gpp arrow it shot at 218 fps. I only shot the thing three times to chrono it for fear the limbs would blow up. You probably won't have to worry with the Uukha limbs but I'd be cautious with laminated limbs.
> 
> Bottom line... your numbers are about what should be expected with an arrow that light.


7.1 GPP is what is spec according to victory


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

I think we're talking past each other. Victory's specs would tell you grains per inch of shaft. I'm talking about grains per pound of bow weight. Compound guys talk in terms of gpi; we talk in terms of gpp.


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> I think we're talking past each other. Victory's specs would tell you grains per inch of shaft. I'm talking about grains per pound of bow weight. Compound guys talk in terms of gpi; we talk in terms of gpp.


As Per victory website shows gpp not gpi so would that not be the per pound?


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

How would they know what the grains per pound is unless they knew the exact weight of your bow?


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> How would they know what the grains per pound is unless they knew the exact weight of your bow?


I’ll weigh them to get an exact. Draw weight is 65 lbs we did scale the bow before choosing arrow spine.


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## Corene1 (Apr 27, 2014)

I have been watching this thread for a while and while I am more concerned with accuracy and consistent shot to shot performance I couldn't help but wonder. So I dug out my sons old Olympic bow and some of my old ACE arrows and went to the chronograph. This is a 1996 Hoyt Avalon plus 25 inch riser with medium 36 pound PSE carbon wood limbs that were made by Win&Win in 1996, total bow length 68 inches. The arrows are ACE 720's 28.5 inches long and weighing in at 285 grains. The bow measured 36 pounds on the fingers at my draw. Shooting a BCY D97 16 strand string. I shot a 10 arrow string. High was 214 FPS low was 212 FPS with a 7.91 GPP combination. Granted this is not a hunting weight for an arrow but we are only pulling 36 pounds as well. I think I have some old Hoyt carbon plus limbs in the shed that are 42 pounds. I will have to see what they do with a 400 grain arrow.


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

It’s accurate, 20 yards instinctive my second group at that distance


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

How loud is it?


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

grantmac said:


> How loud is it?


It’s not loud at all. No silencers only a slight little buzz at release. Once I put beaver balls should be dead silent


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

I think what Jim Castro is getting at here is the VAP is only listing their shafts weight in GPI, In order to do a hunting arrow weight test you'd need a 680gr total weight arrow. What you've done is just shot a light arrow out of a heavy bow, proving nothing. In fact I can match your fastest fps with half the draw weight, and not use $999 limbs to do it. GPI is grains per inch, GPP is grains per pound of draw weight. A 420 Gr arrow is 6.17 GPP. I'm slightly confused at this entire post.


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Mo0se said:


> I think what Jim Castro is getting at here is the VAP is only listing their shafts weight in GPI, In order to do a hunting arrow weight test you'd need a 680gr total weight arrow. What you've done is just shot a light arrow out of a heavy bow, proving nothing. In fact I can match your fastest fps with half the draw weight, and not use $999 limbs to do it. GPI is grains per inch, GPP is grains per pound of draw weight. A 420 Gr arrow is 6.17 GPP. I'm slightly confused at this entire post.


So no one hunts with lighter arrows than 680gr? Show me a 35lb 220 FPS bow you have peaked my curiosity sir


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

One of the beliefs that are part of the package for traditional shooting is "hunting arrow should be 10gpp". Nobody couldn't explain or give a reasonable answer to: Why a 400gr arrow is good for hunting when is shot from a #[email protected]" bow but is bad if is shot from a #[email protected]" bow? That 680gr arrow you might need is the result of this customary thinking. You can take the archer out from his traditional environment, but not the tradition from his thinking.


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

That's not what I said, it's fairly standard that hunting weight arrows are 10gpp that's how I came to that figure. Exactly half the draw weight, 34# Long Uhkka EX1 Evo 2 on a 21" DAS riser shooting 204 gr VAPS. I'd also like to add control trumps speed in every way.


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

Draven Olary said:


> One of the beliefs that are part of the package for traditional shooting is "hunting arrow should be 10gpp". Nobody couldn't explain or give a reasonable answer to: Why a 400gr arrow is good for hunting when is shot from a #[email protected]" bow but is bad if is shot from a #[email protected]" bow? That 680gr arrow you might need is the result of this customary thinking.


 GPP is a standard measurement, in fact its the only way to standardize limb performance evenly across the board. My point here is he's done nothing but handicap himself with excess draw weight chasing a number when he should be more concerned with his ability.


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

I assumed nothing, you pointed that number: 680gr arrow.



Mo0se said:


> That's not what I said, it's fairly standard that hunting weight arrows are 10gpp that's how I came to that figure. Exactly half the draw weight, 34# Long Uhkka EX1 Evo 2 on a 21" DAS riser shooting 204 gr VAPS. I'd also like to add control trumps speed in every way.


"Standard hunting arrow" based on your own words. Traditional thinking actually. Compound shooters are thinking in other numbers.
Someone with enough experience will know that a 10 gpp arrow from a traditional bow will not get above 215fps no matter the bow poundage. If it is in high 190s it will be considered a very fast bow.


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

Draven Olary said:


> I assumed nothing, you pointed that number: 680gr arrow.
> 
> 
> 
> "Standard hunting arrow" based on your own words. Traditional thinking actually. Compound shooters are thinking in other numbers.


Didn't know we were discussing compounds on the Traditional forum. Yes his draw weight x 10 = 680 You came in my other thread offering nothing and I'm sure glad you're carrying on that tradition.


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

The gentleman asked you if he can hunt with a different arrow than 680gr from a #68 bow and you answered nothing. My answer was "yes, he can - no matter what the "traditional thinking" is saying". You can carry on as well, not much difference here.


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

Yes, he can hunt with any arrow he wants, I'm not the trad police. I did however address a more important issue.


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Charley1378 said:


> So no one hunts with lighter arrows than 680gr? Show me a 35lb 220 FPS bow you have peaked my curiosity sir


Charley1378,

I think you missed the point. I tried to explain it to you and so did Corene1, with our examples of much lighter bows shooting similar grains per pound of bow weight shooting similar number to what you're seeing. Any decent set of limbs shooting in the 6 gpp range will have similar speeds to what you're seeing from your bow. A 35# bow shooting a 210 grain arrow (6 gpp) will shoot similar speed numbers to a 65# bow shooting a 390 grain arrow (6 gpp) at the same draw length.


To the other points from Draven.... Yes, if a 400 grain arrow is acceptable from the 40# bow to hunt with, it is certainly acceptable for a 60# bow. However, the "generally" accepted weight for a hunting arrow is 9 to 10 gpp. I will say this Draven... Mo0se knows all that (and much more) so you guys are talking past each other.


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

His issue at this moment is how to get from that bow the speed he wants. How much he pays for that or how accurate will be is another story.


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Draven Olary said:


> His issue at this moment is how to get from that bow the speed he wants. How much he pays for that or how accurate will be is another story.


I’m relatively new and learning as I go. It’s accurate, fast and does not feel like 65lbs draw is smooth. I’m still fine tuning, my string was a bit short had to order another. Satori calls for 7.5-8.5 brace height and lowest I was able to go is 9. Was not going for bang for the buck just wanted to build something wild. Considering Hoyt and uukha being good quality why wouldn’t the accuracy be on the talent of the archer? I’ve placed 2nd in my first 3D shoot with a $120 50# mandarin duck black hunter. Wanted to try something of higher quality since I can shoot pretty decent


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

Charley1378 said:


> I’m relatively new and learning as I go. It’s accurate, fast and does not feel like 65lbs draw is smooth. I’m still fine tuning, my string was a bit short had to order another. Satori calls for 7.5-8.5 brace height and lowest I was able to go is 9. Was not going for bang for the buck just wanted to build something wild. Considering Hoyt and uukha being good quality why wouldn’t the accuracy be on the talent of the archer? I’ve placed 2nd in my first 3D shoot with a $120 50# mandarin duck black hunter. Wanted to try something of higher quality since I can shoot pretty decent


If you need any help or tips I'll be glad to help. Good luck!


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## Greencb (Jul 8, 2008)

Charley1378, 

9 to 12 GPP is the standard and it is the standard for a reason. If anyone wants to challenge the existing "traditional thought" please perform a valid penetration test and share the results. 

9 to 12gpp is a large range, I have found that the the best choice depends on the level of energy your rig produces and the priorities you have as a hunter/shooter. The set up you have would really shine on the heavy side 11 to 12 gpp. Generally speaking its tough to go wrong with 10gpp.  Below 9 is really not ideal for hunting. 

A side note, 

Your shooting may improve quite a bit with a lighter poundage. Deer can be taken with ease out of 40lb gear. It sounds like you have good shooting ability it would be a shame to hold yourself back with heavy gear.


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## Charley1378 (Jul 16, 2018)

Greencb said:


> Charley1378,
> 
> 9 to 12 GPP is the standard and it is the standard for a reason. If anyone wants to challenge the existing "traditional thought" please perform a valid penetration test and share the results.
> 
> ...


The uukha limbs are something to experience. They almost feel 10lbs lighter than what they scale it’s hard to explain. I have 3 recurves from 45, 50, 60, and now 65 lbs. also shoot compound 70 is easy for me. It might sound odd but I’m built like a short silverback gorilla 🦍 lol as far as arrows I’m game to go heavier and re test. I want to lower the brace height into the recommended range which may result in better results. Got an arrow recommendation?


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## 893301 (Sep 17, 2018)

Draven Olary said:


> His issue at this moment is how to get from that bow the speed he wants. How much he pays for that or how accurate will be is another story.


 A Hoyt satori is about 40 fp of ke no matter how you look at it.
A compound is more like 70


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

zombiebarebow said:


> If everyone would just concentrate on kinetic energy instead of speed. A Hoyt satori is about 40 fp of ke no matter how you look at it.
> A compound is more like 70


IMO, momentum would be a much better indicator than KE for hunting.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

I shot my light target setup on a few hogs last spring and it worked well;40#, 375g arrow. I think the key is the very effective 2 blades. That said, I much prefer my 11gpp setup With my Vx’s Though its still a little light at 47/48#, it blows through everything. 

Charley, 
I think you are asking for problems with that setup. You are running a very light gpp arrow and you are way over the recommended BH for those limbs- a double whammy. Uukha has a BH chart. You might want to be wearing safety glasses shooting that thing. 

.


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