# hoyt maxxis paper tuning issue need suggestions



## alienshooter (Aug 30, 2009)

make sure you are maintaining a good consistant grip. if you are pushing your bow upon release it could have the same result. if it is your grip you may need to change your grip a little or possibly need more counter weight on one side of your bow or the other? somethign to try.. if you have a video camera, video yourself shooting and be very methodical in your shot. after having a few shot groups with good follow throughs and without jumping, watch your video and see what your bow is doing. it can help diagnos the issue.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Agree with above, but must add what a lot of us having been passing over. When shooting with a loop make sure you do not have nock pinch. I don't necessarily agree with just having a loop, but regardless, a nocked arrow should be able to move up and down slightly within the loop, say .040".


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## GCB (Nov 13, 2005)

TurkeyCreekTom, 

I have the exact same problem on my Maxxis 31, only mine is a 60 pounder with a Schaeffer II rest, otherwise everything else is the same. No matter what I do, I just cannot find the center shot position on this bow. 

I am beginning to think that Hoyt has a built-in problem between their cam lean (which is slight on my Maxxis, but was really bad on my AlphaMaxes) and the grip of the bow. I realize that Hoyt's cam system may make for more level nock travel in the vertical axis, but I can't help but wonder if their geometry of these bows with their cam lean issues is causing horizontal nock travel that can't be tuned out of the bows.

I am three bows into this problem and they all had/have the same issue to varying degrees. I just cannot get the grip to feel right in my hand. I am usually a high grip shooter, but these grips on the 2009 & 2010 models seem to encourage a low grip position in the meaty part of the palm with the knuckles at a 45 degree angle. I do not believe I am torquing the bow since I shoot open hand with a sling.

This thing is just giving me fits!

GCB


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## airbourn (May 21, 2008)

I have a 08 82nd Airborne and had the same left tear problem with 400 FMJs. I switched to 250 X-RINGS AND 250 MAXIMA HUNTERS and my center shot is perfect now and shooting perfect bullet holes. The new cams on speed bows need stiffer spined arrows.


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## GCB (Nov 13, 2005)

What is a 400 FMJ? I assume it is an arrow - what brand? A 400 sounds stiffer to me than a 250.


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## airbourn (May 21, 2008)

400 FMJ is a .400 spine Full Metal Jacket arrow made by Easton. The lower the number the stiffer the arrow. (250 is a stiffer arrow than a 400)


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## GCB (Nov 13, 2005)

Oh, I see. I did not know that Easton's numbers worked the other way. I'll have to look it up for future reference. I used to shoot Easton Arrows religiously in the aluminium days, but when they denounced carbon shaft arrows because they were late to the game rather than any real issue based on a reasoned argument, they lost all credibility with me. Haven't purchased an Easton product in over 20 years. Interesting lesson there for Easton eh?

I shoot Bass Pro's Carbon Maxx 3000 shafts which are fairly stiff arrows for a 60lb bow. I think my arrows are correctly spined for the bow based on the calculations I am supposed to do on the back of the box. I also shot a Carbon Force 200 STL hunter throught the same bow and got the same result. The 200 STL is a fairly flexible shaft for a 50-60lb bow so I think I covered the spine issue, but I may be wrong.


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## Paul Cataldo (Jul 31, 2004)

I GUARANTEE you the Hoyt bows are fine. 

Anyone who has this problem should try the following,

1. Remove grip from bow, and shoot it off the riser (as if you were shooting Hoyt Sideplates, only without the sideplates). -Shoot bow and see if anything changes.

2. Have someone else who is a qualified archer with some tournament wins/etc under his belt shoot the bow, if possible, to see if YOU are torquing the grip.

3. Switch to stiffer spine, or try some other brand arrows.

4. Start shooting broadheads and find the centershot that allows b-heads and FPs to hit exactly the same L-R. (this is a good starting point) Then check paper tune results.

5. Make sure you are checking the paper tune from MULTIPLE VARYING distances. You might be getting a left tear at 8 feet, and a right tear at 12 feet.

6. BARE SHAFT TUNE! This will help diagnose whether fletching contact might be an issue!

7. If you are shooting Blazers (or any fletching for that matter), you MUST check for clearance. TONS of guys think they don't have vane contact issues, when really they DO. Heck, paper tuning isn't always the end all be all answer to bow tuning.
I can't tell you how many Hoyt bows w/QAD rests I've seen, which are actually shooting bullet holes through paper, EVEN DESPITE GETTING BLAZER VANE CONTACT because the shooter never realized the top (cock feather up Blazer) was hitting the QAD containment bar. Shooters don't even think to look for vane contact when they are shooting bullet holes in paper from the start.


If you cannot find centershot on a Hoyt bow, you have a setup problem. I am sure of it.


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## GCB (Nov 13, 2005)

Thanks Paul, I will begin to work down the list this weekend. Unfortunately, I do not have access to a tournament archer - wish I did.

Thanks again and best regards,

GCB


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## Paul Cataldo (Jul 31, 2004)

Well that was the ideal situation. 
Get several other experienced archers (or even anyone who can shoot a bow decently) and have them all shoot it.
If everyone gets a LEFT tear, you are onto something, and need some setup issue addressed.
If you are the only one getting a left tear, YOUR BOW HAND has a setup issue, and you need to stop torqueing the grip. 
I really miss the old Hoyt grips which had sideplates and the pad on the riser. Those really felt good, and when I was learning to shoot, they really helped me.
Of course, in reality, shooting a full wood grip really helps you realize your torquing the bow, and helps you fix the problem, and develop a consistent grip.
I love the Hoyt grips now.


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## Paul Cataldo (Jul 31, 2004)

Just a note,
Check the easiest items on the list above FIRST. (let others shoot bow, remove grip/etc), as many times that ends up being the problem.
My bet is torquing the grip, but of course, I don't know you, and haven't seen you shoot.
For years I fought with torquing of the grip, until finally I shot enough that I accidentally developed a consistent grip.
I also fought with canting the bow when I first started shooting. However, a quality Spot Hogg sight with PRECISION installed level fixed the canting problem quick and now it's second nature to hold and shoot the bow level/plumb...


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## Hoythntr96 (Oct 6, 2009)

*starting to get me PO'd*

I was just paper tuning my hoyt turbohawk today. over and over got tail left tears. I moved my shaffer rest gradually till i had gone all the way to both sides. didn't change a thing. I wonder if it could possibly have something to do with that grip. I tried centershot too and the rest didn't go far enough, still didn't change a thing. I honestly have no idea. I tried everything. ???????????????????????????????????


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## Paul Cataldo (Jul 31, 2004)

Guys if you are moving your arrow rest ALL THE WAY TOWARDS EACH SIDE, and that is NOT affecting the paper tear, then you have a SERIOUS user induced error most likely.
I don't care how good or crappy a bow might be, that just isn't normal, and you are most likely getting fletching contact or something. Your rest isn't timed properly, or your getting fletching contact somewhere else/etc.
Hard to tell for sure, but I guarantee you are doing something wrong, or something is dead wrong on the bow, which most likely can easily be fixed.
I doubt it's the grip of the bow. Now it MIGHT be YOUR grip ON the bow, but it's not the grip itself.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

How long are your shafts cut? It seems to me more of a spin issue. Also ripcords can be finicky, is it dropping or being forced? Have you tried a bareshaft through it while paper tuning.


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## turkeycreektom (Aug 14, 2009)

I got it worked out. Turns out I was torqueing my bow. Bow is shooting sweet now.


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## Paul Cataldo (Jul 31, 2004)

turkeycreektom said:


> I got it worked out. Turns out I was torqueing my bow. Bow is shooting sweet now.


 Glad to hear it.

But you gotta tell us bro.... WHAT did you do to resolve or diagnose the issue?


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## Hoythntr96 (Oct 6, 2009)

*tuning*

I will need to try shooting a bare shaft. the arrows i tuned with were just shy of being too short.(the insert is about .5in. off the prongs) And i didnt mean that it was the grip itself but more the natural way we hold it. i actually purposely torqued my wrist the opposite way it was tearing and i shot bullet hole tears. What did you do to solve the problem???? i would really like to know. thanks, Nick


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## GCB (Nov 13, 2005)

Paul,

I fear I may have egg on my face. I was not torquing the bow since I got the same results after I took off the grip and shot with an open grip. 

However, as I was working down your list, I forgot to try one thing that I remember reading years ago - that is not to be reluctant to make an adjustment in the opposite direction of what the tear is telling you. So, I made a radical adjustment in the opposite direction and noticed the shafts were tearing less.

After moving the rest to a position where I was convinced the centershot could not possibly be, it started to punch neat little holes. There are still some anomalies I will have to work out, such as a little vertical tearing that is rearing its ugly head, but the bow is much better.

One of the things I have learned from this experience is that bows, like musical instruments, must have harmonics. Harmonics in that the rest and the arrow did not align with the sight, but I could shoot and consistently hit the target with the bowsight being about 1/4 inch away from where logic said it should have been positioned. Now that I have found the centershot, they all agree and yet, still shoot consistently as before only without the left tear. Go figure...

Well this was a "aha" moment. It just goes to prove, one can never take anything for granted.

Thanks for all your suggestions!


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## Paul Cataldo (Jul 31, 2004)

Oh trust me, 
Most anyone will tell you that the rest RARELY lines up with the sight pins, in relation to the string.
I was talking to Spot Hogg recently, and they basically told me they knew my sight pins were LEFT of the string/rest alignment point, and they were right... My sight pins ALWAYS line up to the LEFT of where the rest/string plane/axis is. That's just how most RH'd shooters find their sights end up being.
IF you had to move your rest OPPOSITE of what the tear dictates, or would suggest, that USUALLY means you are getting fletching contact/interference somewhere.


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## turkeycreektom (Aug 14, 2009)

Paul Cataldo said:


> Glad to hear it.
> 
> But you gotta tell us bro.... WHAT did you do to resolve or diagnose the issue?



I was checking for cam lean while I had my bow at full draw. What I noticed was that the way I was gripping the bow was causing the entire bow to be twisted to the left(right handed shooter). So when I squared the bow up in my hand it fixed the problem completely. This explains why when I would move the rest the opposite direction of the tail left tear it would fix it. When I was twisting the bow to the left and moved my rest to the right it would square up. Anyways after a grip change to make sure the bow was square down the range in my hand it tuned perfectly through the paper with a proper rest set up. I hope that makes sense.


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## Hoythntr96 (Oct 6, 2009)

*thanks*

Well all your suggestions have helped. i found i was torquing it to the left too. my rest is back to normal and it shoots well. thanks for all your help, Nick


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