# What does this wear on arrow rest indicate?



## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Likely a too stiff spined arrow and possibly (also) your string nock height is too low. 

Another thing you need to check is how your arrow is centered. The arrow should be 1/2 the diameter of the shaft to the tip of the shaft being just outboard of the string. The thickness of your strike plate on that bow appears to be much too thick, which would center your shaft way too far outboard.

You shooting feather fletch or vinyl vanes?


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

Just as a note, this same type of wear occurred with the bow when I was using bushy velcro as the arrow rest so that can be ruled out. Also im shooting feathers, when I had the velcro rest in place I used it was the strike plate so it was much thinner and I had that same type of wear.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

What bow is that, 82nd?


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

Samick sage 45#


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

I can never find a firm answer as to whether the Sage is cut to or cut past center. What size (diameter) of shaft are you shooting?


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1328270&page=1

Its funny, I believe we have had this conversation before. I think that the last time we talked we determined that it was cut past center. With it being a cut past center bow what does that mean in terms of how thick the strike plate should be?


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

I shooting Beman ICS Bowhunter arrows 500 spine - 125grain points with 50 grain brass insert - full lenght


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> With it being a cut past center bow what does that mean in terms of how thick the strike plate should be?


If it is amply cut past center, you will be able to adjust for alignment by strike pad thickness, pressure button, or a combo strike plate and rest that can adjust horizontally.

If the riser is cut 1/8" past or less, it is likely you will be restricted to aligning the arrow by the diameter of the shaft....which can be a PITA. 

Find the center of your limb in the fade-out near the riser. Mark the center with a narrow visible line. Nock an arrow. Balance the bow so that you can step back and when aligning the string with the center mark on your limb look to see how far out or in your shaft tip is.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Here is an rough illustration of how your shaft should appear when properly aligned. If you search the archives, I believe that at one time "Viper1" posted an actual pic of arrow alignment.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> _ Beman ICS Bowhunter arrows 500 spine_


I don't shoot carbons so I am not familiar with the various brands, but being a .500 I am going to take a wild assumption that your shaft may be a 5/16", which would be near equivalent to a 20XX O.D. aluminum... or close. Not a large diameter shaft, but if the Sage is not cut to center or cut that much past center, that thick strike plate could easily put the shaft too far outboard.


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

I tryed what you said and it appears with no strikeplate on the bow the arrow is perfectly align with the string and limbs looking at it from the back.








With the arrow aligned perfectly perpendicular with the bow itself, I need to shift it just outboard, correct? to get the spine to react


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> I need to shift it just outboard, correct? to get the spine to react


Shaft had to be way outboard with the strike-plate you were using.

Now, using very thin strike-plate material, align the tip of the shaft just outboard of the string.

What is the draw-weight on the bow at your draw-length.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Here is the arrow alignment pic that Viper1 put up a while back.


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## voodoofire1 (Jan 24, 2006)

I had shelf wear like that after replacing a string, raised my nock set up 1/8"...and have had no further problems.....


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

82nd -

The odds are WW's advice is correct, that the size of the strike plate is pushing the arrow so far off center that it's giving the arrow a stiff dynamic spine, and so not causing it to enough flex to clear the riser (wear on the EDGE of the shelf pad). To confirm that, you really need to do some formal tuning. If you're not sure how, go to www.bowmaker.net and drill down to the tuning page.

I may be over thinking this, but it seems like the wear pattern should be closer to the strike plate, see pic. You might be pinching the arrow and applying downward pressure on the rest. I've seen people actually bow the arrow downward at anchor. 









I'd just go with a regular stick on rest and tune to taste.

Viper1 out.


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

WindWalker said:


> What is the draw-weight on the bow at your draw-length.


My draw lenght is 27" so rought 43#


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

82ndArcher said:


> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1328270&page=1
> 
> Its funny, I believe we have had this conversation before. I think that the last time we talked we determined that it was cut past center. With it being a cut past center bow what does that mean in terms of how thick the strike plate should be?


I believe it was determined to be 1/8" past center - probably about the distance of the cutout of wall material in the picture. Basically, a cut-to-center bow made to be cut-past by just that amount without cutting the entire wall past center to maintain some structural integrity of the riser. On a 9/32" arrow, it is 0.14" to center of arrow. Even at 1/8" past-center on the bow shelf, that 1/2 arrow width is still slightly more arrow width than the distance of the bow's cut. IOW, about where you need to be with nothing as a plate but the wood. 

How thick the strike plate finally is becomes a matter of tune to the arrow. About any furniture pad material or stick on rest is going to put you back to -0- and with some, much more than that. With that pad, I would think your arrow is sitting well outboard of the center - hard to say from the picture.

It could be as others suggested that you are sitting too far out for that spine of arrow. As stated in the other thread, I have tuned in that spine and specs from ~43 pounds, but that is with having the arrow just slightly outboard of the centerline (no pad, just thin material to tune). Any more than that, and a weaker spine or more point weight would be in order.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

82nd:

Just a heads up! Aside of the strike-plate and alignment issues, there are likely other tuning and form issues that need to be corrected as others suspect and have stated. I first suspected a spine and nock height issue but latched on to the alignment and strike plate first as it was visually obvious that too was definitely problematic. 

Once you have the strike-plate and alignment issue resolved, establish a proper string nock height and arrow nock fit...you shooting split or 3-under? Then you need to query the carbons shooters about your arrow setup. I am not a carbon shooter but am aware that carbons tend to run more to the stiff side of spine and vary from brand to brand and shaft type. I am suspicious of those .500's on a 43# recurve. If the carbon shooters say "too stiff," you can up the head weight.

PS: If your using 5" feather fletch; at 43# and that carbons _apparently_ do not paradox as much as aluminum or wood, it may also help to change to a 4" feather. Keep in mind, weight on the rear dynamically stiffens the arrow spine.


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

Thanks everyone who has replied, I re-did the rest and arrow plate this morning using velcro and made it to where the arrow is 1 diameter of itself outboard compared to the centershot of the bow. After this I did bareshaft tuning and determined that the arrow that im using is tuned for the bow. I shot from 10 up to 15 yards and the fletched and bare shafts were right next to each other, the bareshafts tending to be an inch lower than the fletched arrows. I shot approximately 40 shots and found that the wear on the rest was still occurring. I rotated the fletching on the arrow to where the cock feather was more pointed up then away from the bow and no more wear  It still doesnt explain earlier why it was wearing from the outside in but it fixed itself somehow.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

When you rotated the cock fletch clockwise, that rotated the bottom hen fletch more to the outboard side of the shelf. 

Being that adjustment has tentatively resolved the wearing of the outside edge of your rest tends to indicate that the timing of the shaft paradoxing was/is off and you were getting fletch contact with the bottom hen, and likely contact with the rear of the shaft...where most contact occurs. Yet, didn't you say that your fletch was not showing signs of "contact?" Is the very edge of either or both hens slightly "frizzed?" 

What brace height you using?


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## ryersonhill (Mar 18, 2006)

If you go to that link that Viper1 showed you, and read the bare shaft tuning part you can use the info provided to set the nock, i always have to look to see if low bare shafts are raise the nocking point or lower it, this bunch of guys that are here on this traditional site are great guys and really put the "Archers helping Archers" in AT, i enjoy reading threads like these and learn, learn, learn


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Did the top hen previously show this?


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

WindWalker said:


> Did the top hen previously show this?


Wow! Good observation!


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> Wow! Good observation!


Thank you for the compliment, but you and most shooters would detect the wear. I just commented first.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

It is not easy to factually determine something by a pic, but look at the apparent string and serving size vs. the nock fit. Unless it's visual perspective error, the nock appears to be too closed.

Here is a blow-up of the nock fit. Best I could do with the pixel thingy.


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

I like Pictures
I noticed this wear on the fletching, as you can see in the pictures the one hen feather is more frayed out and tattered but that is also the feather that is pointed directly at the bow so I assume thats normal. The other hen and cock feather arent worn nearly as bad as the inside hen...nd I may have gotten a little bit excited earlier Im still getting that wear on the new rest. Its still on the outside edge of the rest , I did find a piece of a feather lodged into the velcro right behind that spot. That leads me to believe that the arrow is paradoxing to that point on its path when leaving. As for the nock fit? are you talking about it being to tight or to close to the string?


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

82nd...I see major contact on the fletch and the shaft.

As for some fletch being the norm; not true. Not everyone is able to obtain the ultimate tune, so feathers do help in that they will not deflect the shaft as bad as plastic...unless the contact is deep into the fletch, but no contact is what you want.

Feather pieces stuck in the rest :mg:... not good!

As for the nock fit, I can only go by the pic and what I see is not what it really is, but a nock that major tight can cause all kinds of problems.


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

The nock is actually really loose, It can pop in and out of the string quite easy.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> The nock is actually really loose, It can pop in and out of the string quite easy.


Check! Couldn't be sure by pic. 

Nock height and brace?


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

Nock height is 1/2" above the shelf and the brace height is 7-3/4". What would making the brace height more change? Could it shift the oscillation of the arrow back. As of right now I know that the arrow is paradoxing to the outside of the rest as the feathers pass the rest. By making the brace height more it could possibly allow the arrow to bend back into the bow as the feathers pass the rest????? I know what im trying next


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## 82ndArcher (Aug 13, 2009)

Also I dont know if this means anything but everytime I string the bow, the first arrow that I shoot always hits the riser and sounds like arrow on wood contact even though both rest and arrow plate are in the way. I dont know its weird


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

82nd -



82ndArcher said:


> Also I dont know if this means anything but everytime I string the bow, *the first arrow that I shoot always hits the riser and sounds like arrow on wood contact even though both rest and arrow plate are in the way.* I dont know its weird


Pretty much confirms a stiff (acting) arrow.

Viper1 out.


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## 7-Point (Jul 5, 2008)

Most of the time when I see this problem, the brace height needs to be adjusted. Most recurves are not true center and can be tuned to shoot fine off center, If you look at the center of a longbow they are at least 1/8" off center plus the thickness of the plate and shoot great that away. So I don't think its the strike plate. I would start by increasing the brace height a little at a time until it corrects itself. Works most of the time for me.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> Pretty much confirms a stiff (acting) arrow.


Double ditto!



> What would making the brace height more change?


A higher brace height tends to dynamically weaken the arrow spine. Thought maybe that if you were on the edge of proper spine to draw-weight, and your bow is capable of handling a higher brace, bracing higher might help. 

However, after looking at your fletch and shaft, I am in total agreement with Viper1 and believe that either due to how the bow is tuned or how you are drawing/releasing, or both, those arrows are _acting _way too stiff.

Keep at it; you are getting there. At least you have some known indicators. That helps, considerably.


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## maidmarian (Jun 14, 2011)

I am newish to archery so take this with about a pound of salt, but after reading all the advice and attempts to fix the problem, I'm kind of wondering if maybe the problem is non-fixable limb twist coming into play at full draw and causing weird torque. 

Maybe limb twist is fixable though?


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