# Arrow suggestions for a 40lb. Martin Jaguar T/D please.



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustam -

If you're sure of your draw length, 1816s would be the first choice. You will probably end up with a 29 - 29.5" arrow, but leave them full length (30.5") for now. Start with a 100 gr screw in head or the lighter glue in target points. Go with feathers if possible.

If you can borrow some of your friends arrows (providing they are long enough, snap on to the string and don't leave the bow sideways), start with that. Once your form starts to settle, then you can get the right arrows. 

This stuff is covered in detail in the book and if you have any questions, feel free to contact me at the email address on my website. 

Viper1 out.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Viper1: Thank you for the prompt reply and suggestions. I have every intention of studying your book and you can be sure there will be many questions to come. 

Regards.

Rustam


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Viper1: Could you please confirm if I will need 9/32 screw-in points for a 1816 shaft? Also, which inserts should I order.

Unfortunately, the screw-in points I have already ordered are 5/16, 21/64 and 11/32. http://www.3riversarchery.com/Broad...Steel+Field+_c57_s71_p99_iCF511X_product.html

Since, I will have to place another order for the points would you be kind enough to suggest a bow string as well.

Thank you.

Rustam


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## warped Arrow (Sep 20, 2005)

I shoot full lengthy GT Ultralight Entradas in a 500 spine out of my 40# bows. Great flight and accuracy. Now the archer that is shooting my bows still needs some refining, LOL!!


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thank you, Warped Arrow. Will keep the suggestion in mind.

Regards.

Rustam


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## Ratdog68 (Feb 22, 2009)

*If you have access to a means*

to measure the draw weight of the bow you've ordered, you may want to do so before deciding upon a particular arrow. My 50# Martin Jaguar's draw weight came in at 57# @ 28". My point... if consistent, you may have a heavier bow than advertised.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Ratdog68: You're right. Would it be okay to measure the draw weight using a mechanical fishing scale? It goes up to 50lbs. I am refering to - http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&parentType=index&indexId=cat90002&hasJS=true

Best I confirm my draw length as well as I have currently listed my draw length based on the Span divided by 2.5 and (Span minus 15) / 2 formulae but it would be best to wait for the bow to arrive and measure the draw length properly.

Sorry to have started this thread without a confirmed draw weight and length but I am itching to get started at the earliest. 

Incidentally, I have read your thread regarding the incomplete bow and dearly hope I do not face the same problems. Are you satisfied with the bow?

Regards.

Rustam


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## Ratdog68 (Feb 22, 2009)

Rustam Bana said:


> Ratdog68: You're right. Would it be okay to measure the draw weight using a mechanical fishing scale? It goes up to 50lbs. I am refering to - http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&parentType=index&indexId=cat90002&hasJS=true
> 
> Best I confirm my draw length as well as I have currently listed my draw length based on the Span divided by 2.5 and (Span minus 15) / 2 formulae but it would be best to wait for the bow to arrive and measure the draw length properly.
> 
> ...


I'm quite certain that my first Jaguar bow fiasco was a freak incident. I have since acquired two more of them... they were all complete bows. 

I'd put money down on the notion that you'll have to sand the edges of the limbs though. The edges of all three of mine have needed it. I've gotten slivers from one of them. 

They're a good shooting bow. I do not plan on getting rid of mine. Mine really like the GoldTip 3555 (full length) with 4" feathers and a 125gr. field point ("50#" bow though).


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thank you. Needless to say I am relieved to read that they are an acceptable product.

Could you please recommend a good string for this particular bow?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustam - 

9/32" = 18/64", so, yes - those are correct.

Viper1 out.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> Could you please recommend a good string for this particular bow?


I have been playing around with different string and serving materials for our 30# and 40# Jaguars (I acquired 2 of each for my Church archery group)

So far I have been most pleased with an endless loop, out of BCY 8125 material, 14 strands, 2D end serving and BCY Halo or Brownell Crown ( my favorite) center serving. I get a very "round" string profile by making the initial bundle 3/4 of an inch longer finished length. That's a LOT of twists, like 1 per inch, but it really works for me. I serve the end loop section but do not close the loop yet! Then put it in the stretcher to even out the tension. After a while in the stretcher, twist it up under tension to final length (I do need to let off some tension every dozen or so twists). Burnish it to remove the extra wax, apply a drop or two of Liquid Lok and serve the loops closed and serve the center. I'll then let off the tension and let the string relax overnight whit the Liquid Lok dries.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks Viper1 and Sand Squid.

I am just starting out and would prefer to buy a couple of ready made strings along with the 100gr 9/32" screw-in points Viper1 recommended. Hence, if anyone could suggest a brand and specification (60" AMO?), I would be grateful.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Sand Squid, just noticed that your signature is actually a link. I do not use PayPal but I will ask a friend who does to make the payment on my behalf. Once you receive the amount, I would be grateful if you could make up two strings for me.

Rustam


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> I am just starting out and would prefer to buy a couple of ready made strings


There are many, many, capable string makers that advertise on this forum. You can't go wrong with any of them IMO.

Currently I am quite backlogged with string orders but hope to be caught up this weekend, and then I'm going to be making a "production run" of Jaguar specific strings to keep on hand for my youth group, as well as for sale to fellow Jaguar owners. They will hopefully go a lot faster because I don't have to keep changing my jig and stretcher settings. If you don't mind waiting a week (or possibly more) before I can get it in the mail, I can make you some... $10.00 each, and you don't pay until you get the strings and are 100% satisfied with them.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustam -

Bowstring are like toasters, the either work or don't and when they don't it becomes pretty obvious, pretty quickly. When people start touting one string maker over another, it always strikes me as a little odd. 

With that, if you can, I'd wait for Sandsquid to get caught up. You get a good string and the money goes to a good cause.

BTW - I'd go with an endless loop string - just fewer variables. 

Viper1 out.


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

Rustam Bana

I shoot 30" 1816's from a 40# Proline. They fly as well as my ability allows. 9/32 tips are the correct size. 

Have fun!


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Sand Squid, I do not know of any other string makers on the forum yet and since you have the same bow I have ordered, you will know exactly what is needed. By all means take a couple of weeks or a month if necessary.

Since I do not use Pay Pal, I would prefer you got the money first, as I would rather not be in an embarrasing situation where the strings arrive and I am unable to send you the payment in time for whatever reason. Will try and rustle up the needful by Monday. Thanks.

Viper1: Thanks once again.


Rustam


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks, Jerry.

Regards.

Rustam


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> Since I do not use Pay Pal, I would prefer you got the money first, as I would rather not be in an embarrasing situation where the strings arrive and I am unable to send you the payment in time for whatever reason.


That's cool, but don't get all crazy over it. 

While any "free" Youth Group always needs funds to keep afloat, we are not "hurting" (pun intended) right now either. _Thanks to a very kind donation of a dozen arm-guards we just recieved._


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Received the bow this morning and the box had all the relevant parts. Unfortunately, neither of the two limbs fitted into the bottom limb pocket. I had to sand down the sides of the pocket to make the limb fit within.

The push-in nuts that fastens to the limb bolts wouldn't go in either and I had to sand both the holes before I could tap the nuts in.

The sides of the limbs were rough, as were the nocks and I had to lightly sand down the sides with 400 grit and finished it with a couple of coats of Tru-Oil.

The camo dip finish is poor to say the least.

Now waiting for the bow stringer and other bits and bobs to arrive from 3Rivers before I can check the draw length and weight.

Is there a particular way for twisting the bow string before installing it?


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

> Is there a particular way for twisting the bow string before installing it?



Place the bottom loop (the smaller of the two) under your foot to hold it and pull the top loop tight. If you have some wax apply it liberally to the string material and the end-loops and end-servings. 
Don't get any wax on teh center serving. Then twist it clockwise about 12 turns while under tension. 

Store the string on the bow to keep from un-twisting... 
Slip the top loop over and down the top limb. 
Hook the bottom loop on the string groove.
Pull the top loop up the top limb till until the string is snug. 
You can hand the bow by a small hook by the top loop.


BTW, the strings I mail will be waxed and twisted to the appropriate lenght upon arrival.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Some pictures for those who may be interested.
































































Is 1154 the serial number or does it refer to something else? Also, am I right in assuming that A denotes the top limb and B the bottom one? 

Thanks.

Rustam


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I did the very same things to my Jag. The good news is, once you get it together it's a good shooter. The string is a continuous loop string, so you can twist it or not twist it depending on what you need to do to reach proper brace height. I usually put 8 to 10 twists in before I try it, but you can try it with zero twists and see where you are and go from there.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks, Sand Squid.

I also received a packet of Saunders Nocks for 16-18 strand string. Would this be okay for the strings you make or would I need to buy another size?


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I called Martin about the A and B markings. You can use A or B for the top or bottom. But picking B for bottom is logical.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thank you, Eldermike.

Rustam


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> I also received a packet of Saunders Nocks for 16-18 strand string. Would this be okay for the strings you make or would I need to buy another size?


Those nocks will work well with the stock string, but will be way too loose for the strings I was planning to make for you, unless you want that many strands in them. 16-18 strands for a 40# bow is a bit overkill, IMO. I would not go over 14 strands, personally. I can always serve the center w/ larger diameter serving to get those nocks to fit right.

Don't buy new nocks yet. It's easier for me to tailor the string to your nocks.
I'll send along a few strings to use now, and a thinner string to use after you get new arrows w/ smaller nocks.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Hi Squid,

That's very kind of you but please don't send any strings other than the two I requested.

I have to buy a few more items in anycase, so adding a pack of nocks for a 14 strand or under string to the list is not a big deal.

Thanks.

Rustam


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## 1denogean (Jan 9, 2009)

Gold tip expedition hunter 35-55s best arrows for the money and fly good out of a low poundage bow.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Need a couple of clarifications please.

I have just received a box of Easton 2016 Gamegetter arrows and have found that the inserts (included with the arrows) do not go all the way in upto the insert's shoulder.










Surely this is not how it is meant to seat or is it?

I will put a small chamfer on the shafts ID as mentioned in the instructions but I don't see how that is going to help. Grateful, if you could tell me how to go about this.

I also noticed that the index vane and nock are assembled so that the index vane is pointing up (or down). Any problem using the arrows fletched this way?










Viper1: I was only able to get 2016, rather than the recommended 1816 arrows this time. Would this make a lot of difference? I will measure the draw length and draw weight and get back to you.

Thanks.

Rustam


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustam -

Try removing the inserts and cleaning out the inside of the shaft. I use a small wire brush. While doing that, make sure there's nothing lodged in there. Can't think of any other reason why the inserts won't go in all the way (to the shoulder).

The nocks on the black GG arrows should be the press-in type. If they didn't give you the adjustment tool, you can use a large coin in the groove and rotate the nock so the odd feather points away from the riser. 

The black GG arrows only go down to 500 spine (2016s). Since you have vanes, there might be a clearance problem. For new shooters, the basic theory is, if the fletched arrows don't leave the bow side ways (really poor flight), they'll be fine for starters. Once you start tuning, they will show quite stiff.

Viper1 out.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Viper1,

Thanks for the tips. Will turn the nocks using a coin.



> For new shooters, the basic theory is, if the fletched arrows don't leave the bow side ways (really poor flight), they'll be fine for starters. Once you start tuning, they will show quite stiff.


Have shot at a stuffed toy from 5 yards and have managed to hit it every time. However, the arrow is flying to the right. The arrow is currently 32" long and I am using a Saunders 100 grain combo point.

BTW, is there no other way other than buying an expensive arrow cutting machine to reduce arrow length?


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## vlcnrydr (Mar 29, 2009)

*This is the method I have used for many years making arrows for my compound bow.*


If you are having trouble getting the insert into place I’ve found that heating up the end of the arrow a little will expand it enough to allow the insert to slip into place. 








Glue the insert with the tip in place and push down on a piece of wood. Make sure to wipe off all excess glue.








A cheap way to cut arrows is to use a pipe cutter. Take your time and do not apply to much pressure or you will crush the arrow. Practise by cutting a little piece of the arrow at a time till you get the feel. These two tools have cut literally hundreds of arrows before I bought a saw.








If you find that the edge of the arrow is turned in after cutting use a pair of needle nose pliers inserted into the arrow and apply pressure while turning the arrow. Do not use to much pressure.








*Good Luck!*


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## Okie1bow (Jul 26, 2006)

*11 Slightly used "on the way"*



Rustam Bana said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have been fascinated by bows and arrows since I was a kid but the price of equipment and the hassles of importing anything half decent into India was a deterent. Import of bows and arrows are a grey area. A week back a friend of mine got himself a Hoyt Trykon Sport and having played with it I decided to get my own set up.
> 
> ...


Dear Mr. Rastom Bana, I have 11 "very slightly used Easton 1816's made up
sitting in my Archery work area! They are exactly as Viper 1 describes you need. The only difference is they are fletched with 4" very soft white plastic vanes and are 30.5" long. [Soft vanes are better than feathers no matter what Viper 1 says!!!!] They have a 100 grain screw in target heads. They are white vanes, green "can't pinch knocks" and have a white wrap over the arrows from the knock down to about 7".

Send me [via private e-mail ] your correct shipping address [with all the correct numbers and designations] and I will send them to you via UPS @ no cost. I also have a couple dozen extra White 4" vanes and some extra knocks I'll throw in. Good shooting, Bill


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustam -

Leave the arrows full length for now and see how they fly.

Viper1 out.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Rustam,

Years ago I made up a bunch of coat hanger gages for aluminum arrows. Picture this: Cut the wire - open up the hanger and and make it as straight as possible. Bend on one end about 1 inch, 90 degrees. bend half of that inch another 90 degrees and you now have a square hook that will fit in the nock. Measure from the inside of the hook out to the arrow length for your gage and cut the wire. You now have a marking gage for your arrow.

For many years I used these gages with a V block. I glued a fender washer on the end of a small V block. I put my gage on the arrow and put the arrow and gage through the washer on the V block and let the gage stop on the inside of the washer. I clamped it and cut flush with the outside of the washer with a hacksaw. Hit it with a file and my arrows were very square and very close to the same length.

Bottom line, yes you can cut arrows without an arrow saw....But those saws are nice to have.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

I was wrong about questioning the effectiveness of a chamfer. I chamfered the end of six shafts with a conical stone. Cleaned out the swarf with ear buds and Isopropyl alcohol and the inserts did go all the way in. Of the six shafts I have chamfered, the inserts were a loose fit in two whilst the remaining four were a tight fit. Will give them a scrub with a phosphor bronze bore brush tomorrow and see if that helps making the fit easier.

Turned the nocks as well using a coin and tried one more shot and the increase in velocity was very noticeable. The arrow still struck right of centre though.

vlcnrydr: Many thanks for the pics and explanation. I may just have to heat the shaft a little if the inserts prove to be stubborn after I have applied the hot melt adhesive tomorrow. BTW, have you ever tried a hair dryer to heat the shaft? I have a pipe cutter but since the instructions clearly mentioned that I shouldn't use one I was stumped and couldn't think of a more suitable alternative other than sending the credit card into meltdown. Will give it a careful try if and when Viper1 tells me to decrease the arrow length. 

Okie1bow: Bill, that's very kind of you but the courier shipping will cost as much as the arrows, if not more. Tell you what, once I have got the draw length and weight measured and it looks like I may have to use 1816's rather than 2016s and Cabelas still doesn't have them in stock, then I'll drop you a line.

Viper1: Will leave the arrows uncut for the time being and will post pictures of the target, so that you chaps can guide me further.

Eldermike: Had to read that twice before the penny dropped. I wouldn't mind giving it a try provided I can find a hanger made of wire thin enough to fit inside the nock. Don't see the plastic coated thin wire variety very often these days.

Thanks everyone and sorry to plague you with the newbie questions but I am afraid you may have to put up with some more before Viper1's book arrives on my doorstep. That and a few more items were shipped on the 15th from 3 Rivers Archery and considering it's well past the 10 day delivery time I can only assume that Indian Postal Customs are sitting on it and will take their own sweet time before releasing it.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Finally managed to measure the draw length and weight and they are 27" and 27.5 lbs. respectively.

The draw length was measured from the inside of the nock to the back of the riser. The draw weight was measured by pulling back a nocked arrow with a fishing scale to the 27" mark. 

From what distance should I commence shooting for groups?

Thanks.

Rustam


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustam - 

Must have missed something, thought the bow was 40#??? Did you mean 37.5#? (2016s from a 27# bow will be painful at best.)

See how well you do from 10 yds. When you are holding a 6" group there, move back to 15.

Viper1 out.


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## 'nothernoob (Apr 17, 2009)

Viper1 said:


> Rustam -
> 
> Must have missed something, thought the bow was 40#??? Did you mean 37.5#? (2016s from a 27# bow will be painful at best.)
> 
> ...


He did say 40#. "Quote... *My draw length is between 28.5" to 28.8". The bow limbs are rated at 40lbs @ 28*" I suspect he just made a typo this last time.

I've been following this thread with interest because I have a similar weight bow (45#) and am about in the same category in the arrow picking dept.

Let me second Mr. Bana in giving thanks for sharing all this knowledge!


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Mea culpa! The draw weight is 37.5 lbs.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

'noob - 

You might be closer with a 1916, and if it acts a little stiff, raising the brace height might be enough. Can't say for sure from here.

Viper1 out.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Groups 1, 2 and 3 shot yesterday at 6.5 yards.




























Groups 4, 5 and 6 shot today at 6.5 yards.




























Pulled the flyer and shot it again to get:



















Finally realised the importance of a consistant anchor point during the last group.

I should mention that I am shooting between the end of the bed and a wall 3' away and from an angle to the target.

The above is not based on any instruction but just a few bits of advice I have gleaned from the internet which have more often than not not been put into practice. All the groups have been shot without a sighting reference.

Should I move the arrow rest a little to the right and how do I get rid of the string slap? I am holding/supporting the bow so as to create as little torque, with the knuckles at 45 degrees, etc. but am still getting hit most of the time. I try ignoring it but I am no glutton for pain.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

P.S.: The brace height is 7 1/4" and I have just realised I have a big blister on the fleshy part of the right ring finger. Should I hold the string closer to the joint? I am shotting 1 over and 2 under.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

You can put some twists in that string and bring the brace height up. Just make sure you are adding twists and not taking them away. Try 8 inches and see if the noise and the arm slap are better for you.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

And from looking at the pictures, take the rest in one turn and try it.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks, Eldermike.

Are blisters on the shooting finger/s par for the course? Still waiting for the tab to arrive from 3 Rivers.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> Thanks, Eldermike.
> 
> Are blisters on the shooting finger/s par for the course?


If you are shooting without a tab, yes.


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## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

Rustam Bana said:


> P.S.: The brace height is 7 1/4" and I have just realised I have a big blister on the fleshy part of the right ring finger. Should I hold the string closer to the joint? I am shotting 1 over and 2 under.


I've read that holding too close to joint can cause corns and put you out of shooting for a while.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustam -

Most people shoot high at first. That part's fine, but not to crazy about your back stop - just be careful. 

The finger position is covered in the book, and yes, it has to be in the crease. You also might be just over doing it a bit. Let it heal and come back slower.

Viper1 out.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks guys. Will make myself a tab and will use that until I get the one I ordered.

Viper1, I am not happy about the backstop either but the shop that makes the coir/jute roundels does not have them in stock. Fortunately, the existing backstop is doing its job. After I added that cardboard box filled with newspapers, the arrows barely make it to the foam. I just wish it could have been bigger. In case you are wondering about someone entering the room, I am locking the room door before I shoot. You can rest easy on the safety front as I have been shooting most of my life and am extremely particular about safe gun handling and it will be same where archery is concerned.

For what it's worth, I am reasonably comfortable with the existing draw weight in the sense that I can draw and anchor without the hands shaking but a lighter poundage bow would have been better still.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Perhaps it's time to head over to Kanteerava Stadium I have heard of an archery club that meets there


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Sand Squid: Maybe but most probably not. That is where the state archery association is based. They shoot the FITA disciplines only.

I have first hand experience of the politics and back stabbing that goes on in these state sporting associations and it's not my cup of tea. I am very serious about learning how to shoot a bow well but there are somethings I just cannot abide. Mind you, they might just be the exception to the rule, so I'll probably go over one of these days and see what it's like.

Eldermike: I increased the brace height to 7 3/4" and moved the arrow rest a little to the right and there are no more strip slaps and the groups are more or less centered though still high. Thank you! 

Viper1: You mentioned that it is normal for a beginner to shoot high. Could you elaborate a bit on that please.

Rustam


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Shot a few more before turning in and was able to find centre by using the upper part of the sight window as an aiming reference.




























Rustam


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustum -

We all use the arrow or part of the bow as an aiming reference. Using the tip of the arrow will almost always cause a high shot until the gap or relationship between the arrow and the target has been figured out. You just took a giant step forward by figuring out that part of the bow can be used as well.

Better target, btw 

Viper1 out.


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## Redneck5544 (Jul 17, 2008)

Rustam,

im looking about getting the easton game getters and noticed u shooting the mjust curious if they fly good for your set up?? and any other things that u have noticed about them please tell me

Thanks


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Viper 1: Earlier, I wasn't using any part of the arrow or the bow as a sighting reference apart from holding the longitudinal axis of the bow along the middle of the target. It was more like shotgun shooting - point at the target and shoot. Glad you like the target bag.  It's filled with plastic bags, some rags and newspapers and cardboard. As yet, none of the arrows have made it to the opposite end.

Redneck5544: The target is merely 6.5 yards away and I am far too new to the game to be able to tell what's appropriate or not. I was told to start with 1816 arrows but was unable to get those and am using 2016s at full length (32") currently. The more experienced amongst us will be able to answer your question better. The only odd thing I found about these arrows was the relation of the nock to index vane. However, I was able to turn them to the appropriate position with a coin.

Rustam


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## Redneck5544 (Jul 17, 2008)

thanks i was just wonderin about em since im going to make my purchase here soon anyway but thanks and good luck in the future!


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks and the very best to you as well.

Just in case you missed it, here's a link that gives a starting point for the type of arrow required. http://www.shootingthestickbow.com/rich_text_3.html


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Finally received my package from 3 Rivers this afternoon. I have yet to start on Viper1's book but considering his reputation on this board for sound advice and the book's listed price I think he has done beginners like me a big favour.

:thumbs_up


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## Redneck5544 (Jul 17, 2008)

thanks rustam


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> I have yet to start on Viper1's book but considering his reputation on this board for sound advice and the book's listed price I think he has done beginners like me a big favour. :thumbs_up


My students wait (impatiently) in line for their opportunity to take Viper1's book home for the week, we have three copies I loan out.... Many students of mine are on their third week with the book.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

There are a fair number of threaded holes, blind holes and a couple of trapezoidal openings on the Jaguar's riser. I have numbered these 1 to 9. Could you tell what purpose they serve?




























I assume some of the threaded holes are for a riser mounted quiver but I am not sure which ones. Anyway, I will ask about the quiver once I know what's what.

Thanks.

Rustam


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

I was about to have some fun with this... but then decided that this was an honest question and didn't deserve an answer such as I was thinkin.... so instead... from someone who is clueless himself...

remember this is a compound bow riser. Your holes on riser are for sights and quivers as you have surmised. As for the rest, no idea. The one in front of the riser is for a stabilizer and the one in the rear of the riser is for a cable guard. The others on the riser might be for overdraw... but I'm not a compound guy and don't know. the holes in the riser might be just for looks.


Much Aloha...  :beer:


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

> I was about to have some fun with this... but then decided that this was an honest question and didn't deserve an answer such as I was thinkin....


LOL. Don't let the authencity of the question stop you. 



> remember this is a compound bow riser.....
> .....and the one in the rear of the riser is for a cable guard.


That's strange. I recall a Martin Archery employee claiming (on Ratdog's Jaguar thread) that she had checked with the General Manager and that these risers were specifically made for this bow.



> Your holes on riser are for sights and quivers as you have surmised.


It would be nice to know which one/s are for the sights and the quiver respectively. Don't want to order something and then end up having to drill and tap the riser.



> Much Aloha...  :beer:


Likewise and thanks.

Rustam


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## vlcnrydr (Mar 29, 2009)

My thoughts on the holes:

*#1* & *#6* are purely for looks and to reduce weight.

*#2* & *#5* are for attaching a sight or certain quivers.

*#7* is for a cable guard.

*#3* & *#4* contain set screws that secure the cable guard.

*#8* & *#9* are a challenge. They line up with 3 & 4 and could possibly be used for a Martin specific quiver or...at some point in production Martin was going to drill another hole like #7 for maybe a string silencer and these were going to be used to secure it.

How did I do?


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> > remember this is a compound bow riser.....
> > .....and the one in the rear of the riser is for a cable guard.
> 
> 
> That's strange. I recall a Martin Archery employee claiming (on Ratdog's Jaguar thread) that she had checked with the General Manager and that these risers were specifically made for this bow.


A more accurate statement IMO, would be it is an older compound pattern casting with some machining modifications. 

And the_ only _ones I have found are:

the limb mounting bolt hole is bored straight and and thus not "pivotable" to allow for changes in bow draw weight via the regular compound method if increasing or decreasing preload on the limbs. 

The lower string stopper hole and it;s associated set screw holes have not been machined

Other than that _it is a compound riser *based* design_....

I have toyed with the idea of rigging up a string stopper using that hole. Who say's you can't have a string stopper on a traditional bow!?!?!?!?
you need to make sure your brace height neve ever moves or you'd need to re-adjust the stopper setting but it could work!


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

vlcnrydr said:


> *#8* & *#9* at some point in production Martin was going to drill another hole like #7 for maybe a string silencer and these were going to be used to secure it.


You got it!


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## vlcnrydr (Mar 29, 2009)

vlcnrydr said:


> Martin was going to drill another hole like #7 for maybe a string silencer and these were going to be used to secure it.


Stopper is what I meant to say


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks Mark and Sand Squid.

Mark, in the bow rack thread is that a Martin Jaguar with a bow quiver? If so, could you tell me which quiver it is and whether it comes with all the necessary bow mounting bits and bobs?

Thanks.

Rustam


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## vlcnrydr (Mar 29, 2009)

Rustam, the quiver is an old Bear Archery quiver that I took apart. I used an 18" piece of 1" aluminum stock to lengthen it. I wrapped the aluminum with camo tape. The quiver is mounted to the bow using parts outta my "Box O' Archery Stuff". It's just stuff I've saved over the past twenty something years of compound shooting.


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## vlcnrydr (Mar 29, 2009)

*A close up photo of the quiver*


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks, Mark. That's a nicely finished quiver.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

BTW, you should be getting an envelope from me soon... it was posted last week sometime.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks a ton, Sand Squid. I wasn't expecting it this soon. Will let you know when it arrives.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

this is one of the best if not the best example of "ARCHERS HELPING ARCHERS" i have seen ever since i joined AT i 2004...i heartilly and most respectfully commend all who have participated in this thread...more power to you all and let's all keep up the good work!! thank you!!


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Time to buy some more arrows and I am undecided between ordering 1816s or 1914s. The arrow BOP lengths are going to be either 29" or 30".

My draw length has settled at 28" and since I am using a bow marked 40# @ 28", I am going to assume that I am drawing 40#. Based on the above draw weight and draw length, I should be considering an arrow with a 0.7" spine.

As per Easton's spine ratings, the 1816s and 1914s have a deflection of 0.733" and 0.658" respectively. Since the 1816 is underspined to start with (28"/0.733" = 38.2#) would it be okay with a 100 or 125 grain field point or broadhead (Magnus 2-blade) or should I opt for the slightly overspined 1914? I would prefer to use the 1816s because the 1914s are only available in far more expensive arrows and I'd rather buy two boxes of XX75 Camo Hunters in 1816 but not at the cost of down range accuracy.

Viper1, on page 355 of your book the 1816 spine is shown as 0.756", whilst Easton currently gives a spine of 0.733". Did Easton revise the spine since the book was published or is that a printing error?

Thanks everyone.

Regards.

Rustam

P.S.: I should also add that I intend fletching the shafts with right helical 4" feathers. May go for the shield cut pattern as they are substantially cheaper than the parabolic pattern. However, if you feel I should use parabolic feathers then please let me know.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustan -

If you keep the arrow at 29" or less, the 1816's are the best choice with heads in the 65 - 100 gr range. At 30" it might get a little dicey and a 1914 or 1913 "might" work a little better. Any of those will have to be tuned. 

Can't keep track of what Easton is up to these days, LOL. The Easton Shaft Selctor I used when that part of the book was written (2006-2007) showed an 1816 with a static spine or 0.756" on a xx75 shaft. Looking quickly at the Platinum Plus (XX75) chart on Easton's site still shows the same. Where were you looking? 

http://www.eastonarchery.com/products/product/29

(Hit the "MORE" button and scroll down.)

Viper1 out.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

Morning Viper1! I was looking at the hunting arrow section and Easton appear to be contradicting themselves - http://www.eastonarchery.com/products/product/10

What would you say to a 1916 at 30" BOP and what weight head could I use? I would like the head between 100 and 150 grains max. 1916s would also help should I choose to shift to slightly heavier limbs (45 or 50#) in the future. 

Thanks.

Rustam


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> P.S.: I should also add that I intend fletching the shafts with right helical 4" feathers. May go for the shield cut pattern as they are substantially cheaper than the parabolic pattern. However, if you feel I should use parabolic feathers then please let me know.


I have noticed that Shield cut is a bit more noisy from the shooters perspective... I have never heard it from the targets' perspective.

Do you have a fletching jig and a RH Clamp? 

I may have some 4" Right Wing feather around.... I only use LW feathers personally. I'll get back to you via PM after I take stock of what I have.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Evening Rustam -

Yeah, Easton's been known to do that - scheesh ... 

For your current rig, I think 1916s will be too stiff, but what I can't factor into the equation is YOU, as you affect the dynamic spine. (They will be fine of course with a 45-50# bow.) I tend to like shafts slightly on the weak side of dynamic spine, as I feel it makes them easier to tune (just better options, like farther off center shot and lower brace height). You can always tune them to act slightly stiff and get the _reported_ benefits. 

Viper1 out.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

SandSquid said:


> I have noticed that Shield cut is a bit more noisy from the shooters perspective...
> 
> Do you have a fletching jig and a RH Clamp?


I did read about the whooshing sound in the book and on this forum but I'll settle for a whoosh or two and save some dollars.  This sport is proving to be expensive but I suppose getting started usually is.

The fletching jig, Jo-Jan monofletcher and right helical clamp, is on the wish list along with some other items and I should be placing the order in a day or two. 

As for the freebies, I really appreciate the help and feel bad to say no lest I offend you chaps. However, it's extremely embarassing for me especially when one adds the postage cost to that of the item. Hope you guys understand and there is no offence taken.


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## Rustam Bana (Sep 21, 2008)

> For your current rig, I think 1916s will be too stiff...


Even if I go to a 30" BOP length and add, say, a 125 or 140 or even a 150 grain head?



> but what I can't factor into the equation is YOU,


I know what you mean. The only parameter I can give you to judge me by are my recent group sizes at 8 yards (indoors) and 10 yards (outdoors) and perhaps a video of me shooting. Would that help?



> I tend to like shafts slightly on the weak side of dynamic spine, as I feel it makes them easier to tune (just better options, like farther off center shot and lower brace height). You can always tune them to act slightly stiff and get the _reported_ benefits.


There is just one point that is making me hesitate and that is the weight of broadheads. There aren't many, that I would use, that are under 100 grains and cutting the shaft to less than 29" would also pose a problem. That would only leave me with lowering the brace height and moving the arrow rest away from the riser to make the arrow stiffer.

Having typed all that and mulled over the issue, I think I'll order the 1816s as I have no intention of using broadheads anytime soon. I was only considering them to save on postage by ordering them at a later date. 1816s it is and thanks once again.

Cheers!


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Rustam -

Maybe. maybe not. Just can't tell from here. And you can't go by what someone else with the same rig is doing - they ain't you!

Nope. Unfortunately shooting at close range, other than paper tuning exercises, won't tell you much. The YOU factor has to do with the size of your hand, EXACTLY how you grip the string and the bow as well as other form "quirks" (and we all have them). 

Until you get new limbs, I'd go with the 1816s and 100 gr heads. Ya never know, depending on what you get, the 2016s you currently have may even work out. 

.... and yeah, you really need to increase the shooting distance to see what's going on.

Viper1 out.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Rustam Bana said:


> As for the freebies, I really appreciate the help and feel bad to say no lest I offend you chaps. However, it's extremely embarassing for me especially when one adds the postage cost to that of the item. Hope you guys understand and there is no offence taken.


No offence taken.

But the fact remains I have a LOT of feathers I'm never going to use but I cannot sell them because it would be wrong for me to sell something that was donated to my youth group in the first place.

Even after the entire 3rd and 4th grades at my daughters school makes thier pinecone turkeys this fall.....









I'll still have several hundred Right Wing feathers with no legitimate use for.


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