# That Relaxed Shot



## RCR_III

What I do is a lot the same as what I would do in a stressful situation to calm my body down. 

The secret to a steady shot is mentally and physically.

On the mental side you have two thoughts you need to have. One being where you try to block as much as you can out about the outside world and situation. Trying to get tunnel vision onto the task at hand. Which for me is focusing on a solid feeling shot, keeping my shot sequence, and abandoning ship when something is amiss. The second side to the mental aspect is just realizing that in some situations you just aren't going to see a normal sight picture from what you're used to when practicing at home. Your adrenaline is up, maybe you're jittery that day, something will be off. So coming to grips with that and even using it as a learning experience to say, " Okay, this is what my tournament float looks like. Let me take a second just to study it and realize a new normal. " 

Then you have the physical side. Your goal here is to rely on your bone structure as much as possible, and then when it comes to muscle influence, relying on the larger muscles as much as possible. These will be the back muscles mainly. 

The two areas that create the most movement in your sight picture due to being tense are your hands and your shoulders. Your hands because they are directly touching the bow and release and the shoulders, because without relaxing them, you are keeping yourself from being able to use your larger back muscles correctly. 


So what does this look like. Keeping a soft hand when placing it into the grip. Looking for the webbing of the hand to flex into the grip. If there's no flex, you're too tense. It's a good check mark. As you draw back and get to full draw, you'll want to release the tension in the upper neck/shoulders. This intentional relaxation will allow the shoulders to drop into place and you will feel the back muscles take over. This transfer of tension is what is truly, "back tension." This will be done as a way to aide in anchoring in. Then you need to have a mental check on the bow hand again. Then look for that relaxed feeling throughout the entire arm. You're relying on skeletal alignment to hold the arm out and the larger muscle in your back to hold the arm up now. Then focus on relaxing the release hand and forearm muscles while transferring each ounce of weight you are letting go of to the back muscle. This will bring the arm back and allow the hinge to rotate in your hand, or the thumb button to move back into your thumb. Then your shot will go off. 

Now keep in mind you aren't relaxing the fingers on your release hand during this process. Those stay in place and wrapped around the release. The relaxation starts at the palm and base knuckles, then works it's way back.


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## D.Short

For me a relaxed hold and execution is all about preload. I preload/transfer the draw to my back muscle and I preload the way my fingers hold the release for the upcoming rotation during my firing engine.
The mental part to overcome line anxiety........is the one that is really,really hard to overcome and I can't help you much there,as it still haunts me. My approach to it is talking and joking around with everyone around me which is what everyone knows me for anyway......hence,The Joker.


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## dmacey

For me, the basis is good alignment. How I check this:
- come to full draw and anchor
- relax every small muscle in each arm I can possibly think of
- relax the draw arm bicep completely (I'm right handed)
- observe what happens to the draw hand.
Does it stay at the face or does it pop out to the right? (hint: for me it pops out to the right quite a ways  , but I get to that in the next sentence)
if it pops out to the right, I start to turn the upper body clockwise (rotate bow shoulder towards the target to the right), letting the neck swivel to the left, until the draw hand makes contact with the face at my anchor point. Its crucial to keep all the small muscles in both arms, including the right bicep, relaxed until I get there.

On my recurve, that's ideally right where the clicker goes off. On my compound, that's where I'm into the wall enough for my release to go off. 

The idea there is to get the draw weight of the bow completely suspended on the bones and back muscles so that as few small, supporting muscles as possible have to be engaged at the point of the release. This, BTW, is the "execute" part of my recurve shot - my "expansion" is actually just a final movement into full alignment that lengthens the bone-on-bone apparatus in the upper body enough to come through the clicker. It's similar on my compound too. The only difference is I have to hold the right hand at anchor with the bicep during the process, the goal being it can be completely relaxed at the moment of the shot.

Nothing else I do is as critical to a relaxed shot as this final move into final alignment. The limiting factor is how far I can rotate my neck to the left and I have just enough room to do it right now at my age. Don't know what I'll do if my neck stiffens up but I guess I'll cross that bridge as I come to it...

DM


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## subconsciously

The key to holding steady is not trying to hold steady. Proper draw length, form, and being able to stay calm in the center are the biggest factors - From my point of view.


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## Mahly

All the above is good info. I'll add one thing that I know too many archers ignore.
Something I like to do when some guy is all cocky at the range, I'll ask him if he holds his breath when he shoots.
90% of the time, the next few ends are a disaster.
Its hard to relax when your out of air, and harder with full lungs.
There are coaches that suggest letting 1/2 the air of of your lungs when your ready to start executing, I prefer to let it out first, then take in a 1/2 breath.
No stress, plenty of air to get the job done.
To hard to be perfectly consistent with your shot while breathing in and out.

Very consolidated shot sequence:
Let all air out
Take deep breath
Draw, anchor
Exhale,
Inhale 1/2 breath
Execute.

Just as with most other situations, a couple deep breaths will help you relax.


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## nuts&bolts

LadyBowhunter12 said:


> I would like to hear how some of you guys get that relaxed and solid feeling in your shot. I know what that kind of shot feels like; when you pull the bow back, and everything is solid and the sight picture is super still. I just dont know how to get it everytime!
> 
> When i dont have that relaxed feel, I feel tense mostly in my head, bow arm, and release arm.
> 
> Id like to hear some ideas and techniques to experiment with to get that relaxed shot.
> 
> Thanks!


alignment. feel like you are "INSIDE the bow" when at full draw. clear mind. empty of all thought. everything is in balance. bow side. release side. bow arm feels like it is as light as a feather. this will be true when you have your alignment perfect, and when you have the holding weight dialed in, to match your stab system foc. the shot becomes effortless.


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## LadyBowhunter12

Mahly said:


> All the above is good info. I'll add one thing that I know too many archers ignore.
> Something I like to do when some guy is all cocky at the range, I'll ask him if he holds his breath when he shoots.
> 90% of the time, the next few ends are a disaster.
> Its hard to relax when your out of air, and harder with full lungs.
> There are coaches that suggest letting 1/2 the air of of your lungs when your ready to start executing, I prefer to let it out first, then take in a 1/2 breath.
> No stress, plenty of air to get the job done.
> To hard to be perfectly consistent with your shot while breathing in and out.
> 
> Very consolidated shot sequence:
> Let all air out
> Take deep breath
> Draw, anchor
> Exhale,
> Inhale 1/2 breath
> Execute.
> 
> Just as with most other situations, a couple deep breaths will help you relax.


Im glad you brought up breathing. I have trouble with breathing during the shot and its also something ive been working on. Great tip!


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## cbrunson

I don't do relaxing. I can't relax and just let the shot shoot itself in a tournament, so I try to shoot under as much pressure as I can put on myself when I practice.


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## dmacey

Excellent comment on breathing, IMO. Regarding that, what I do is along the lines, kinda-sorta, of what's taught in the KSL shot cycle. I take in a breath during the draw and let it out as I come to anchor. I leave the diaphragm relaxed through the remainder of the shot. If I start to run out of air, the shot has already gone wrong, so that's one of my let-down checklist items. There are some variations on that theme, but I use that for both recurve and compound and it seems to work pretty well for me. 
I don't breathe during the shot - if I'm already huffing and puffing at full draw, I need to let down and take a break lol.

DM


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## SonnyThomas

It takes one thing not quite right that can have you tense up or prolong the shot that will bring tension. Trouble is, you can be looking right at it or feel it and not consider it. So break your shot down. One thing is for certain, you can't fling arrows and think it's going away without changing something, you or the bow.


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## stromdidilly

cbrunson said:


> I don't do relaxing. I can't relax and just let the shot shoot itself in a tournament, so I try to shoot under as much pressure as I can put on myself when I practice.


Not to derail too much but, how do you create pressure during a practice session?


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## Padgett

Pressure during a practice session:

For me at my current ability level I come into the bow shop and I put up a new target and with no warm up I shoot my scoring round.

When I am shooting a perfect 5-spot round I always get to the last end and then I go over to the counter and tell my shop owner that I am 5 shots away from a perfect round and take a break. I will buy a coke and drink it adding caffine to my system and then I go back and shoot the first 3 of the last end and then I ask one of them to come over and watch me shoot the last two arrows.

Another thing I like to do is shoot a couple hundred x's in a row just for fun and then put up a new target and shoot a scoring round, why? Because I already have a couple hundred x's in a row in my system without missing and now I am going to try and shoot a perfect scoring round.


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## cbrunson

stromdidilly said:


> Not to derail too much but, how do you create pressure during a practice session?


I'm always in pursuit of my next highest score. Right now that sits at 300-27x Vegas. I've shot about five of them total. 

I don't practice just flinging arrows. Every practice is a game. Every shot in practice is for the win. I have to shoot through the nerves and anxiety that will be there in competition, so I practice that way. 

Is it truly the same? No. But it's a hell of a lot closer than trying to find some magic happy place where 100s of Xs just flow out of you all day long and you don't even count them. I practice for competition. Competition is 30 arrows (or 60) consecutively. For indoor season that is. You have to be able to deal with the stress of the seventh end, rebounding after a miss, and finishing strong.

I know people are at different levels in the sport so I understand some wanting to learn how to relax at the shot, but it does me no favors, since relaxing on the line while standing next to some of the top pros in the sport is just not going to happen.


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## dmacey

cbrunson said:


> I'm always in pursuit of my next highest score. Right now that sits at 300-27x Vegas. I've shot about five of them total.
> 
> I don't practice just flinging arrows. Every practice is a game. Every shot in practice is for the win. I have to shoot through the nerves and anxiety that will be there in competition, so I practice that way.
> 
> Is it truly the same? No. But it's a hell of a lot closer than trying to find some magic happy place where 100s of Xs just flow out of you all day long and you don't even count them. I practice for competition. Competition is 30 arrows (or 60) consecutively. For indoor season that is. You have to be able to deal with the stress of the seventh end, rebounding after a miss, and finishing strong.
> 
> I know people are at different levels in the sport so I understand some wanting to learn how to relax at the shot, but it does me no favors, since relaxing on the line while standing next to some of the top pros in the sport is just not going to happen.


Interesting, but in my opinion, shooting relaxed still needs to be part of your routine, since that's what you have to fall back on when you are in a pressure situation. Either that, or you have to simply expect and accept to shoot tense in some situations (such as standing on the line between KI Bo Bae and Reo Wilde) but not in others such as at the local archery shop etc. I suppose the latter is a way to do it, but it's probably not ideal or necessary to have to submit to that.

I've stood on lines between archers that were orders of magnitude better than I was, but I still strove to do my "transfer" the same way with the relaxation steps and still had to let down if it failed just the same. It doesn't really matter what the situation is in the final analysis, I still have to shoot relaxed as I've always learned to do my shot. If I'm unable to do that in some environment that's, to me, a training issue and not something I consider a normal condition under which I have to adjust my shot accordingly. 

OTOH, that's what competing is for, I guess LOL...

DM


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## SonnyThomas

Padgett and cbrunson have noted pressure situations. This is dealing with stress, different than being relaxed in your shot.


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## RCR_III

I do something similar to this. I shoot every arrow for score. This puts that pressure on yourself to perform. You can integrate trying to relax into this. And in a way, this helps with dealing with pressure situations and pressure on the line and is a form of relaxation. Exposure therapy. Or as close as we can get it without being on the line. Reo Wilde has said he will do the same as well. Each shot is for score. Some people can't do this. It messes with their shot to keep track of score, but to me, that's how I guage what I'm doing.


cbrunson said:


> I'm always in pursuit of my next highest score. Right now that sits at 300-27x Vegas. I've shot about five of them total.
> 
> I don't practice just flinging arrows. Every practice is a game. Every shot in practice is for the win. I have to shoot through the nerves and anxiety that will be there in competition, so I practice that way.
> 
> Is it truly the same? No. But it's a hell of a lot closer than trying to find some magic happy place where 100s of Xs just flow out of you all day long and you don't even count them. I practice for competition. Competition is 30 arrows (or 60) consecutively. For indoor season that is. You have to be able to deal with the stress of the seventh end, rebounding after a miss, and finishing strong.
> 
> I know people are at different levels in the sport so I understand some wanting to learn how to relax at the shot, but it does me no favors, since relaxing on the line while standing next to some of the top pros in the sport is just not going to happen.


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## dmacey

SonnyThomas said:


> Padgett and cbrunson have noted pressure situations. This is dealing with stress, different than being relaxed in your shot.


I wonder, then, what is meant by "I understand...wanting to learn how to relax at the shot, but it does me no favors"? I might just have misunderstood the intent of the comment. For me, anyway, it does me a tremendous favor regardless of the situation, so I merely seek to understand what is meant in this case.

DM


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## sixstringer4528

I make sure my shoulders are relaxed and shift nearly all of the weight to my back muscles. Don't make your bow arm do all of the work!


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## SonnyThomas

SonnyThomas said:


> Padgett and cbrunson have noted pressure situations. This is dealing with stress, different than being relaxed in your shot.





dmacey said:


> I wonder, then, what is meant by "I understand...wanting to learn how to relax at the shot, but it does me no favors"? I might just have misunderstood the intent of the comment. For me, anyway, it does me a tremendous favor regardless of the situation, so I merely seek to understand what is meant in this case.
> 
> DM


Try you and the bow as one, something like nuts&bolts has above. Bow fit excellent, no fighting the bow, no fighting the release, you're at ease, relaxed. Stress, you have to beat Jesse Broadwater.


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## dmacey

SonnyThomas said:


> Try you and the bow as one, something like nuts&bolts has above. Bow fit excellent, no fighting the bow, no fighting the release, you're at ease, relaxed. Stress, you have to beat Jesse Broadwater.


Gotcha. I can do all the above except beat Jesse Broadwater. It'd be so hopeless that I'd just have fun and watch him shoot .

DM


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## cbrunson

dmacey said:


> Interesting, but in my opinion, shooting relaxed still needs to be part of your routine, since that's what you have to fall back on when you are in a pressure situation. Either that, or you have to simply expect and accept to shoot tense in some situations (such as standing on the line between KI Bo Bae and Reo Wilde) but not in others such as at the local archery shop etc. I suppose the latter is a way to do it, but it's probably not ideal or necessary to have to submit to that.
> 
> I've stood on lines between archers that were orders of magnitude better than I was, but I still strove to do my "transfer" the same way with the relaxation steps and still had to let down if it failed just the same. It doesn't really matter what the situation is in the final analysis, I still have to shoot relaxed as I've always learned to do my shot. If I'm unable to do that in some environment that's, to me, a training issue and not something I consider a normal condition under which I have to adjust my shot accordingly.
> 
> OTOH, that's what competing is for, I guess LOL...
> 
> DM


You don't compete very often, do you unclejane?


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## dmacey

cbrunson said:


> You don't compete very often, do you unclejane?


Beg your pardon?

DM


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## Rugby

LadyBowhunter12, I have often wondered how to get into that “relaxed and solid state” you mentioned at will rather than occasionally.
This year I have worked on a method that has allowed me to do achieve this every time I shot.

The beginning was a combination of the “none of the pros use back tension” statement at the start of the year and my desire to find a better way to shoot which made take note of that statement and look for information on this method of shooting.

Fortunately for me I had a good sounding board to help me with my new method. 
This guidance has helped to confirm the path I was on was worth pursuing.

I had long been an advocate of push/pull. This method has served me well but I found it lacking in consistency. Not so much shot to shot but month-to-month. 

The big change was to stop the push/ pull and learn to relax my release hand. Changing the half moon around on my hinge so it would “click” (thanks Jesse Broadwater) I focused on relaxing my index finger at first then the back of my hand and then forearm.
This yielded immediate results, more consistent grouping and ease of getting the shots off.
I found the click invaluable to learn this method as I could start my “relaxing” from the same place each and every time. I wouldn’t release on the click, just started my shot execution from that point. 

Despite this improvement I wanted more. I noticed some shots were a lot better than some others. I wanted them all to be good. I began to look to becoming more relaxed as I noticed some shots held on the target remarkably well. On reflection I realised I had a more relaxed bow hand on these shots. I began to work on relaxing my bow hand as much as possible. The results here, like the relaxing of the release hand were instantaneous. I found the sight pin would have zero (as good as) movement during the shot process. Zero pin movement had been possible at full draw but frequently movement would set in when my shot execution began.
Once I got the relax thing going on the bow hand everything just settled down.

The last 8 weeks has yielded better results again. By better results I am referring to ease of the shot going off, minimal pin movement and consistency. These have achieved by learning to relax my release hand/arm and bow hand while maintaining a “pull” in my right shoulder. 
The first two, when done right, have the pin sitting still on the target. The later keeps me from creeping, relaxing everything.

This has been my experience so far, an experience which given me a huge amount of confidence in the field and yielded the greatest consistency I have ever known.

It has taken since January 2015, a lot of work with a string bow, a real bow, continued research and a strong mental game to get to where I am now. 
Not really that long in the overall scheme of things.

Something, which made a tremendous contribution, was keeping a shooting log. It allowed me to record those “Ah-hah” moments, there were a few, and it was a great reference tool when things weren’t going so well. 

I hope this is of some help for you, good shooting.


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## cbrunson

dmacey said:


> Beg your pardon?
> 
> DM


Recognizing that people are at different levels is the key factor. If you go to shoots just for fun because you know you don’t stand a chance even on a good day, then it would be more fun to just relax and shoot, and do the best you can.

But if your practice scores are high enough that you know you can win, you might approach the competition with a different mentality. Every shot has potential of being the one that costs you the win. That’s the point I’m getting at.


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## subconsciously

None of the pros use back tension is a misnomer. Many may not use the squeezing of the draw side rhomboid to execute. I don't even do that. Back tension holds the bow back along with skeletal bracing. Aka Holding. Look at all the top pros (except for a few) all have a solid follow through leading to the draw arm shoulder. This follow thru is a by product of back tension. You can't relax the draw arm with out it. 

.02


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## SonnyThomas

True...........


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## Padgett

One of my keys is to be honest with myself, what level of a shooter am I really? The last time I attended indoor leagues and the iowa pro am I was a 58x average type shooter, sure I shot a good 10 to 15 60x rounds during the winter when training but I shot a whole lot more 58 and 59x's. Now, when I shot a vegas round that year I almost always shot a 300 round with around 19 to 22 x's, I very rarely shot a 299.

So when I showed up to compete at a tournament or league night I didn't go there to prove a point or do something out of my ability, I just showed up and enjoyed doing what I do weather I was standing next to a pro or a amateur. At the iowa pro am I shot a 300 56x the first day and I shot a 300 21x vegas the second day. So basically I shot within my ability level both days. 

The minute that you try and be or score better than your ability you are screwed and you will probably shoot way lower, this is how I shoot relaxed when next to the top shooters in the world . First of all they aren't watching you shoot, they don't care who you are, they don't care that you missed a x, they have their own shooting to relax and do. Once you realize that you can just shoot and enjoy yourself things mentally start to fall in place.


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## dmacey

subconsciously said:


> None of the pros use back tension is a misnomer. Many may not use the squeezing of the draw side rhomboid to execute. I don't even do that. Back tension holds the bow back along with skeletal bracing. Aka Holding. Look at all the top pros (except for a few) all have a solid follow through leading to the draw arm shoulder. This follow thru is a by product of back tension. You can't relax the draw arm with out it.
> 
> .02


heh, it's funny - one of my favorite compound shooter to watch is Dominique Genet. He just shoots 10's all day long, but has virtually no follow-through. His draw hand barely ends up behind his head and the bow barely moves forward, almost like a Hooter Shooter. I'd have to say he doesn't use a primarily back-tension style of shot based on his follow-through. Either that, or he's stronger than 10 gorillas.

So, speaking for myself, though back-tension is how I've learned to shoot a relaxed shot, it doesn't sound like that's necessarily the "correct" way to do it for everyone on the compound bow. I think that's kind of a hangover from recurve shooting where it's pretty much mandatory. And even at that, Kisik Lee calls the anchor the "holding/transfer" position....

DM


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## Padgett

Your score on a 5-spot target can be very deceiving, last year I was having a awesome week and I decided to do a scoring round on a wednesday so I put up a new 5-spot target and got started, I got done and had another 300 60x but it was the ugliest 60x ever. 

I kept track of three types of arrows

1. Inside out x's

2. solid line cutters

3. Outside looking in line lickers

That day I had a bowhunter who is a idiot show up and shoot with me at the indoor range and I let him get to me, he is arrogant and sucks always shooting really bad but I absolutely hate being around him and I was mentally weak that day. I had only 41 inside out x's and I had 6 solid line cutters and I had 13 outside looking in line lickers. 

Funny thing is that the next day I had one of my best scoring rounds ever, I shot 57 inside out x's and had 1 solid line cutter and I shot a 300 59x because the one line licker that I had was just a little off the line.


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## Padgett

I don't like just shooting x's, in fact I either shoot a scoring round or I am keeping track of inside out x's like I described above. I actually keep track of inside out x's more than I do scoring rounds, to me there is something really valuable to be learned about your accuracy when you take a close look at your x's. I know that last winter I was having many many days where I went in the range for my 1.5 hours of shooting and I would shoot non stop for just over a hundred arrows and when the day was done I might only have 5 to 7 arrows that were on the outer edge of the line cutting it nicely and not line licking. So by the end of that day I might have 90 arrows that were inside out and 10 or so of them cutting the line but on the inside of the line and of course the 5 to 7 arrows that were solid but on the outside. 

It took me a few years to get to that point where I eliminated the line lickers on the outer edge, I know that for years I shot countless 59x rounds and 60x rounds where there were a good 10 or so arrows that were line lickers and on days where I was lucky and all of them licked a little line I got my 60x but there were lots of days where one or two of them missed by just a little. 

Not only does keeping track of these three types of x's tell you the truth about your accuracy but it really gives purpose to your shooting on days when you don't shoot a scoring round. To me scoring rounds are funny and deceiving, I am good enough that if I shoot a scoring round everyday then I can go home on Friday excited that hey I shot three 60x rounds this week, which is cool but at the same time when I do that I feel like I am hiding from the truth. Usually I try and train most days and keep track of my inside out x's and then I pick a day such as thursday to shoot my scoring round, I make that decision early in the week so that I look forward to it. On that day I also start it without any warm up shots or I will do two ends only just like competition.


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## subconsciously

Whatever works. 
Kisik actually states anchoring as the arrival at the tranfers/holding position . A new term has been added - Angular Anchor. 

Tomato - tomata.


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## dmacey

Padgett said:


> That day I had a bowhunter who is a idiot show up and shoot with me at the indoor range and I let him get to me, he is arrogant and sucks always shooting really bad but I absolutely hate being around him and I was mentally weak that day. I had only 41 inside out x's and I had 6 solid line cutters and I had 13 outside looking in line lickers.


Good training for a relaxed shot for sure, isn't it lol. I shoot in the mid 290's/30x or so in practice on compound these days when there's not an annoyance on the line. I know that it was a good practice day when I can stay in that general area when there _is_ something bugging me and I can stick to my routine. 

300 is a good ways away for me, though I'm finally getting over the hump with my right shoulder problem just in the last week or two. It's getting time to get involved with a target face again.

DM


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## SonnyThomas

dmacey said:


> Good training for a relaxed shot for sure, isn't it lol. I shoot in the mid 290's/30x or so in practice on compound these days when there's not an annoyance on the line. I know that it was a good practice day when I can stay in that general area when there _is_ something bugging me and I can stick to my routine.
> 
> 300 is a good ways away for me, though I'm finally getting over the hump with my right shoulder problem just in the last week or two. It's getting time to get involved with a target face again.
> 
> DM


I don't let anything bother me with Indoor spots. I don't shoot them


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## subconsciously

One of my students as a cub was extremely good. Won state, sectionals and 2nd at nationals. When he bumped into the youth division he started picking up bad habits and eventually developed TP. Gave him a training regimen which included becoming relaxed and incorporating back tension with lan2 execution. Last night he shot his first 300 with 43 x's. We just started his 20 yard game 3 weeks ago. His training lasted 2.5 months. Not bad for a 12 year old shooting a hinge.


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## cbrunson

Padgett said:


> One of my keys is to be honest with myself, what level of a shooter am I really? The last time I attended indoor leagues and the iowa pro am I was a 58x average type shooter, sure I shot a good 10 to 15 60x rounds during the winter when training but I shot a whole lot more 58 and 59x's. Now, when I shot a vegas round that year I almost always shot a 300 round with around 19 to 22 x's, I very rarely shot a 299.
> 
> So when I showed up to compete at a tournament or league night I didn't go there to prove a point or do something out of my ability, I just showed up and enjoyed doing what I do weather I was standing next to a pro or a amateur. At the iowa pro am I shot a 300 56x the first day and I shot a 300 21x vegas the second day. So basically I shot within my ability level both days.
> 
> The minute that you try and be or score better than your ability you are screwed and you will probably shoot way lower, this is how I shoot relaxed when next to the top shooters in the world . First of all they aren't watching you shoot, they don't care who you are, they don't care that you missed a x, they have their own shooting to relax and do. Once you realize that you can just shoot and enjoy yourself things mentally start to fall in place.


Are you going to shoot the Iowa Pro am this year?


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## Padgett

I want to so bad, I am recovering from surgery so I am not even sure if I can shoot a bow in late january or not. I ruptured my bicep and they drilled a hole and pulled it down in there and served it in. I am 2 months out from surgery and they told me it can be a 6 month recovery. 

I feel great right now but am not using the arm at all, I was told that 3 months for it to attach completely and then I start real work to get back to shooting. I am going to use a genesis bow when they tell me I am free to use it so I am hoping that is right after the 3 month part. If I can shoot the genesis bow early on after the 3 months is up I might make it to the iowa pro am. 

I would love to meet you and shoot with you, my buddies are now getting into indoor so even if I don't shoot I may come up and spend the weekend with them in the motel and watch them shoot.


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## SonnyThomas

Ruptured tendon, right? Ruptured bicep is what I have and no fixing it. Doesn't look as bad now, but I can sure pump it up. Looks great, but burns like fire....This ain't pumped up, just holding my arm up for the picture.


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## grantmac

dmacey said:


> I shoot in the mid 290's/30x


NFAA rules? How long have you been shooting?


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## dmacey

grantmac said:


> NFAA rules? How long have you been shooting?


NFAA 5 spot, 60 arrows, yes, with my PSE setup for FS unlimited. The last time I scored a target in practice before I started having trouble with my shoulder anyway, I shot a 298 35-ish x. In competition I can do about 294 30x. 
Been shooting about a year after a layoff of about 20. 

DM


----------



## enderson

LadyBowhunter12 said:


> I would like to hear how some of you guys get that relaxed and solid feeling in your shot. I know what that kind of shot feels like; when you pull the bow back, and everything is solid and the sight picture is super still. I just dont know how to get it everytime!
> 
> When i dont have that relaxed feel, I feel tense mostly in my head, bow arm, and release arm.
> 
> Id like to hear some ideas and techniques to experiment with to get that relaxed shot.
> Thanks!


I like the Zen book. "Aimless and Purposeless" Just working on those two mindsets especially while at full draw resulted in some incredibly free shots. Also, "Waiting for fulfillment" instead of the common tendency to let negative anticipation creep in. This mindset, again especially while holding and executing made quite a difference. Instead of the slightly increasing tension in the bow hand etc.. when a shot doesn't break as quickly as others it became much easier to wait and maintain relaxation. Maybe a little different spin then the technical stuff


----------



## dmacey

dmacey said:


> NFAA 5 spot, 60 arrows, yes, with my PSE setup for FS unlimited. The last time I scored a target in practice before I started having trouble with my shoulder anyway, I shot a 298 35-ish x. In competition I can do about 294 30x.
> Been shooting about a year after a layoff of about 20.
> 
> DM


PS: I've switched to BHFS for at least this year, so I'm expecting my scores to drop accordingly. I'm about to start scoring in practice again, so I guess I'll know soon enough lol.

DM


----------



## grantmac

dmacey said:


> PS: I've switched to BHFS for at least this year, so I'm expecting my scores to drop accordingly. I'm about to start scoring in practice again, so I guess I'll know soon enough lol.
> 
> DM


Realistically the difference between BHFS and FS at anything more than the basic beginner level is really a question of X-count. The 5 ring really is a very large target at 20yds.
If you are still struggling to be consistently shooting a 300 then you need to look at gross adjustments in technique and setup, you really aren't at the find detail phase of learning.

-Grant


----------



## dmacey

grantmac said:


> Realistically the difference between BHFS and FS at anything more than the basic beginner level is really a question of X-count. The 5 ring really is a very large target at 20yds.
> If you are still struggling to be consistently shooting a 300 then you need to look at gross adjustments in technique and setup, you really aren't at the find detail phase of learning.
> 
> -Grant


I wouldn't say you're at that fine of a level of teaching either, based on this comment.

DM


----------



## SonnyThomas

grantmac said:


> Realistically the difference between BHFS and FS at anything more than the basic beginner level is really a question of X-count. The 5 ring really is a very large target at 20yds.
> If you are still struggling to be consistently shooting a 300 then you need to look at gross adjustments in technique and setup, you really aren't at the find detail phase of learning.
> 
> -Grant





dmacey said:


> I wouldn't say you're at that fine of a level of teaching either, based on this comment.
> 
> DM


In all realty, at the mid and higher levels, a 300 game in 5 spot events is nothing without a whole bunch of Xs. Vegas and the Vegas face, no one at this time has shot a 900 90X, however, there have been some 89Xs. Just 4 years ago John Wheeler set a Vegas NFAA record with his 3 300 games in AMBHFS. He had 73 Xs. Lousiville National Indoor 5 spot, 22 AMBHFS shooters shot 600s. 22nd place had 90 Xs of a possible 120. 1st place had 1 short of perfect, 119 Xs. 

It literally kills me to stand on the line and fling 60 arrows and 120 for two days....Lord! Now, never once in two years of shooting State Indoor Championships have I shot a 300 and still placed 3rd in Sr AMFS. My worst, 297 and my best 299. So I got lucky....The only reason I shot Indoors was I felt obligated because I was Central Board member on the Board of IAA Directors. Since then no one has found a team of horses big enough to drag me to a Indoor.


----------



## dmacey

SonnyThomas said:


> In all realty, at the mid and higher levels, a 300 game in 5 spot events is nothing without a whole bunch of Xs. Vegas and the Vegas face, no one at this time has shot a 900 90X, however, there have been some 89Xs. Just 4 years ago John Wheeler set a Vegas NFAA record with his 3 300 games in AMBHFS. He had 73 Xs. Lousiville National Indoor 5 spot, 22 AMBHFS shooters shot 600s. 22nd place had 90 Xs of a possible 120. 1st place had 1 short of perfect, 119 Xs.
> 
> It literally kills me to stand on the line and fling 60 arrows and 120 for two days....Lord! Now, never once in two years of shooting State Indoor Championships have I shot a 300 and still placed 3rd in Sr AMFS. My worst, 297 and my best 299. So I got lucky....The only reason I shot Indoors was I felt obligated because I was Central Board member on the Board of IAA Directors. Since then no one has found a team of horses big enough to drag me to a Indoor.


To expand, I'm never impressed at all by people who tell me how great they are. _edited_

Yourself, OTOH, couldn't impress me more! I can't believe you're actually back shooting so soon after all that overhaul. Lord have mercy, sorry but you're a hero to me now whether you like it or not lol.

As for my last score in competition, I don't need to explain it to anyone. I'm actually quite proud of it given that I didn't even prepare for the tournament. I shot my recurve for a week before, and showed up late. Then was trying to help a gal next to me on the line who was having bad TP. And the kids and the mayhem, it was one of the funniest times I'd had in decades.

DM


----------



## subconsciously

grantmac said:


> Realistically the difference between BHFS and FS at anything more than the basic beginner level is really a question of X-count. The 5 ring really is a very large target at 20yds.
> If you are still struggling to be consistently shooting a 300 then you need to look at gross adjustments in technique and setup, you really aren't at the find detail phase of learning.
> 
> -Grant


I agree


----------



## TNMAN

Just about anyone can shoot out in the blue. ---> 2014 NFAA Nats

Wilde Reo PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
Pasmore Mark PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
Trail Keith PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
Woody Kendall PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
Carter Forrest PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
Lovely Bryan PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
Potter Richard PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
GIBBS LEE PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
Gruber Marc PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
Thompson Nshan PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
Beaubouef Chance PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
Morgan Levi PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
Thompson Cody PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
bounce dustin PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
Gellenthien Braden PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
Perkins Christopher PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
Cousins David PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119


----------



## subconsciously

TNMAN said:


> Just about anyone can shoot out in the blue. ---> 2014 NFAA Nats
> 
> Wilde Reo PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> Pasmore Mark PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> Trail Keith PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> Woody Kendall PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
> Carter Forrest PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
> Lovely Bryan PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
> Potter Richard PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> GIBBS LEE PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
> Gruber Marc PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
> Thompson Nshan PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
> Beaubouef Chance PMFS 300 59 300 60 600 119
> Morgan Levi PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> Thompson Cody PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> bounce dustin PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> Gellenthien Braden PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> Perkins Christopher PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119
> Cousins David PMFS 300 60 300 59 600 119


Yes they can. But nobody on your list did.???


----------



## grantmac

dmacey said:


> I wouldn't say you're at that fine of a level of teaching either, based on this comment.
> 
> DM


You talk quite frequently on this forum (which is *Intermediate-Advanced* target archery) about this technique, or that piece of equipment which works well for you. I would say though that if breaking 300 is still a challenge that you really aren't at a place where anything could be considered to be working well for you.

I'm still chasing my first 60X game, I consider myself a beginner in this forum.

-Grant


----------



## TNMAN

subconsciously said:


> Yes they can. But nobody on your list did.???


Ooops.  Thanks for keeping me straight.


----------



## dmacey

TNMAN said:


> Ooops.  Thanks for keeping me straight.


Don't feel bad, I've seen it happen. In the world cup in Mexico City the other day, Natalia Avdeeva actually missed the target on a shot in the quarter finals against her teammate (I believe it was the 1/4). She's one of the best compound archers in the world and she shot a complete miss in competition.... 
So the rarified atmosphere here in Intermediate-Advanced ain't so rarified out there in the real world on the shooting line .

DM


----------



## cbrunson

Relax unclejane. grantmac is right. If you want to be honest and accept that your ability is what it is, you stand a much better chance of learning how to improve. 

This forum is confusing and has been from the start. We want guys that can actually shoot very well to come and share tips and tricks they've discovered over the years that helped them become great shooters, but no one is going to be interested if mediocre shooters start arguing or bashing for whatever reason. The issue is and always has been what defines intermediate or advanced. Like grantmac says, if you can keep it in the white, that probably signifies beginner level status, even with a bowhunter set up. We've all heard the "I've been shooting for 40+ years, so I know a thing about archery", business, but that means nothing to a guy that's been shooting for 3 or 4 years that can out perform him. Beginner, intermediate, and advanced should be levels of skill, not years of experience.

Competition is heartless. I guarantee neither grantmac, nor anyone else seeks to impress you. Just chill, and be respectful. You might learn something if you become open to advice from those who have surpassed you.


----------



## cbrunson

dmacey said:


> Don't feel bad, I've seen it happen. In the world cup in Mexico City the other day, Natalia Avdeeva actually missed the target on a shot in the quarter finals against her teammate (I believe it was the 1/4). She's one of the best compound archers in the world and she shot a complete miss in competition....
> So the rarified atmosphere here in Intermediate-Advanced ain't so rarified out there in the real world on the shooting line .
> 
> DM


There's a big difference between an accidental miss from a top shooter in the World Cup Finals, and a person who shoots a 290-295 average in practice.


----------



## dmacey

cbrunson said:


> There's a big difference between an accidental miss from a top shooter in the World Cup Finals, and a person who shoots a 290-295 average in practice.


Who claimed any different?

DM


----------



## cbrunson

I consider myself intermediate. I'm not a consistent 60X shooter, but I average 57x. That's good enough to finish in the bottom of the championship division. I am getting better though with every positive advancement I make, which I think qualifies me to share my experiences that have gotten me from a 40-50x level to where I'm at now, as an intermediate shooter not claiming to have the ability to out perform the top guys in our sport. Someone that is a consistent 60x shooter may look at where I'm at now and laugh at some of my ideas, but that is okay by me. I'd welcome his or her input. Even many that aren't quite at my level could have some great ideas, but there is in my opinion, a cut off where beginner ends and intermediate/advanced begins. If I were to choose, it would be right around the 299-300 five spot average with the 299 being a bad shot that you knew why it happened. 





dmacey said:


> PS: who is "unclejane"?
> PPS: oh, never mind... did a search. LOL....
> 
> DM


Quote from another member who realized who you were before I did.

"Both from Northern New Mexico, both shoot hoyt tribute and a pse supra, both talk about oly recurve background, and both end every post with two initials."

Add that your new profile appeared right after your old one got banned. (Yes we remember) It took a while for you to migrate back to the I/A, but it appears your mannerisms are now returning as well.


----------



## cbrunson

The one thing that I would like to add from my earlier post regarding not trying to relax is that perhaps maybe after a few wins, I could get comfortable and just shoot without the competition stress. I suppose that would be ideal. I don’t really see that happening though. I think with greater success comes bigger stages. Sure, I could be the most relaxed shooter on the line if I had no intention of trying to win or even better my previous score, but what would be the point of competing?

I watched the live feed of the world cup finals when Mike Schlosser put himself out in the quarter finals. That kid is no stranger to the podium, yet he showed signs of stress that got the better of him. My question is, is he always under that stress? Even when he wins? I’d bet so.


----------



## dmacey

SonnyThomas said:


> Ruptured tendon, right? Ruptured bicep is what I have and no fixing it. Doesn't look as bad now, but I can sure pump it up. Looks great, but burns like fire....This ain't pumped up, just holding my arm up for the picture.


Now _this_ is something that impresses me, someone with the courage and get-to-it to shoot with hardware like this . By the way, may I ask what happened? Surely it wasn't a bow that did all this to your shoulders?
PS: I complain about my bursitis, but not anymore after seeing this and hearing Padgett having to battle the same thing!

DM


----------



## subconsciously

Many times it is not what you do "in" archery, it is what you have done "for" archery. 

From winning at a state/national level or coaching shooters that win at the state or national level is a source of credibility many look for. 


.02


----------



## SonnyThomas

subconsciously said:


> Many times it is not what you do "in" archery, it is what you have done "for" archery.
> 
> From winning at a state/national level or coaching shooters that win at the state or national level is a source of credibility many look for.
> 
> 
> .02


You're talking about those outside of AT, right?  About everybody on AT knows more than even the Pros.


----------



## dmacey

Back to the topic, here's a video that I try to follow as far as setting up a relaxed shot (which I was in the process of explaining before the interruption). It's another recurve oriented presentation, for which I beg you pardon, so not all of it applies. But the general idea of good alignment that's illustrated does cross over to compound, I think. It definitely is a significant aid to me in a relaxed shot, anyway. 

This was done by a guy who coached the Guatemalan team for a period of time and the illustrations are very lucid IMO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJtZT2KcIM0

DM


----------



## swestafalian

Practicing under pressure has it advantages for the shooter that has a great shot sequence and understands form and what it takes to execute a "good" shot. However a more casual practice with focus on form and execution is very beneficial to shooters who are working on development of form. It's hard to gain proper execution while always under pressure. Figure out what it takes for you to stay relaxed. After you get your execution down then practice under pressure.
Having solid "bone to bone" contact will make your shot more relaxed, good form is key, as well as having equipment that is fine tuned to the shooter. Breathing while shooting allows your muscles to be relaxed, there's some really great breathing info above. 
Try really focusing on the X... I mean burn a hole in that thing. Don't put your pin on the X or even think about forcing your pin on the x. It causes you muscle to tense and move and you'll self destruct. Focus only on the x and your arrow will go there. It helps me stay relaxed and consistent. If you don't feel good about your shot process, let down!,


----------



## SonnyThomas

swestafalian said:


> Practicing under pressure has it advantages for the shooter that has a great shot sequence and understands form and what it takes to execute a "good" shot. However a more casual practice with focus on form and execution is very beneficial to shooters who are working on development of form. It's hard to gain proper execution while always under pressure. Figure out what it takes for you to stay relaxed. After you get your execution down then practice under pressure.
> Having solid "bone to bone" contact will make your shot more relaxed, good form is key, as well as having equipment that is fine tuned to the shooter. Breathing while shooting allows your muscles to be relaxed, there's some really great breathing info above.
> Try really focusing on the X... I mean burn a hole in that thing. Don't put your pin on the X or even think about forcing your pin on the x. It causes you muscle to tense and move and you'll self destruct. Focus only on the x and your arrow will go there. It helps me stay relaxed and consistent. If you don't feel good about your shot process, let down!,


Sort of gives question to your Warm Up Post.......


----------



## cbrunson

SonnyThomas said:


> Sort of gives question to your Warm Up Post.......


I thought the same thing. 

Getting relaxed and just shooting is great for leisurely shooting. Competition brings more to the table. Preparing for it is important, if you want to be competitive anyway.


----------



## RCR_III

I got to thinking about it today after shooting, and I think a relaxed shot comes a lot from confidence. If you're confident in your equipment, your preparation, and your shot then the "relaxed" shot is easier to have. It's more a confident shot. It just happens.


----------



## montigre

cbrunson said:


> I thought the same thing.
> 
> Getting relaxed and just shooting is great for leisurely shooting. Competition brings more to the table. Preparing for it is important, if you want to be competitive anyway.


Same here, there seems to be a bit of a paradox between what is being done and what is being professed....

Anyway, this goes back to the point made in a much earlier thread that many really do not understand that there is a often fundamental difference between practicing to improve one's form or execution and training for specific competitions....


----------



## cbrunson

montigre said:


> Same here, there seems to be a bit of a paradox between what is being done and what is being professed....
> 
> Anyway, this goes back to the point made in a much earlier thread that many really do not understand that there is a often fundamental difference between practicing to improve one's form or execution and training for specific competitions....


That explains so well the confusing part of this target completion forum. Some people come here thinking it is intended for serious competitive amateur target shooters, and others come here wanting to learn how to shoot like the pros. Neither of which is wrong, but it seems the competition part is lost in most topics.


----------



## Remodrums

Great post


----------



## Lazarus

montigre said:


> Anyway, this goes back to the point made in a much earlier thread that many really do not understand that there is a often fundamental difference between practicing to improve one's form or execution and training for specific competitions....


Very, very good point. Furthermore, *very much of the chatter regarding competitive archery centers around the 20 yard indoor game.* That is very understandable since interest in the 20 yard indoor game dominates the sport right now. That brings us to this; a "relaxed shot" at 20 yards indoors is a completely different animal than a "relaxed shot" (if that is even possible) shooting 70 meters with anything more than a slight breeze outdoors. As cbrunson points out, throw in the "competition" factor and it's like shooting 70 meters (in competition) outdoors is a totally different game than shooting at 20 yards in your garage or at your local indoor shop. I'm not sure that solves any problems, but some people that focus heavily on the 20 yard game may not totally grasp this. Good shooting.


----------



## cbrunson

Remodrums said:


> Great post





Remodrums said:


> Agreed





Remodrums said:


> Well stated





Remodrums said:


> Solid post





Remodrums said:


> Good question


Trying to get enough posts to start a classified ad?


----------



## SonnyThomas

July 2015 join date.....


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## cbrunson

SonnyThomas said:


> July 2015 join date.....


Ya they have a new 20 post rule for posting an ad in the classifieds.


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## montigre

Then why the blinkety blank is he dumping his chit in here????


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## RCR_III

montigre said:


> Then why the blinkety blank is he dumping his chit in here????


He's gotta chit. Chat somewhere ;-)


----------



## Padgett

Ladybowhunter12 came down to a new shop this saturday and for the first time I got to spend 3 hours with her on the line at a indoor range, I am not able to shoot yet so I just watched her shoot and we worked on form and execution. 

I told her on friday when we decided to do the shooting session that when she showed up I wanted her to come in the range and put her bow together and step up to the shooting line and fire three perfect arrows into the x just like it was a scoring round. I told her on friday that I was doing this to put pressure on her to shoot strong with no warm up and with a coach standing there staring at her.

She got out of the car and walked into the bow shop and we talked for a few minutes and I met her mom and then we walked back into the range and put up a target, she then stepped up and smoked 3 x's in a row like it was no big deal.

For the next three hours we shot and talked and shot and waited on bow hunters screwing around and we kept going up to the target to get her arrows and the inside out x's kept on coming, keep in mind we worked on grip and front arm form and then firing enignes and then we changed the speed of her hinge to click when applying back tension to the wall instead of rotating fingers to get to the click. Even after all that she had only missed one 5-spot x.

Let me repeat, after all that she only missed one 5-spot x. I would love for any of you to have a coach work on your grip and front arm and float pattern and make you use different firing engines and other stuff and only miss one x. 

It was a absolute honor to work with a up and coming shooter that could take a suggestion and try it and then give the appropriate feed back to me of what it felt like, to me that spoke volumes of how good she may choose to be.


----------



## dmacey

Now that's archers helping archers! Good stuff...

DM


----------



## LadyBowhunter12

Padgett said:


> Ladybowhunter12 came down to a new shop this saturday and for the first time I got to spend 3 hours with her on the line at a indoor range, I am not able to shoot yet so I just watched her shoot and we worked on form and execution.
> 
> I told her on friday when we decided to do the shooting session that when she showed up I wanted her to come in the range and put her bow together and step up to the shooting line and fire three perfect arrows into the x just like it was a scoring round. I told her on friday that I was doing this to put pressure on her to shoot strong with no warm up and with a coach standing there staring at her.
> 
> She got out of the car and walked into the bow shop and we talked for a few minutes and I met her mom and then we walked back into the range and put up a target, she then stepped up and smoked 3 x's in a row like it was no big deal.
> 
> For the next three hours we shot and talked and shot and waited on bow hunters screwing around and we kept going up to the target to get her arrows and the inside out x's kept on coming, keep in mind we worked on grip and front arm form and then firing enignes and then we changed the speed of her hinge to click when applying back tension to the wall instead of rotating fingers to get to the click. Even after all that she had only missed one 5-spot x.
> 
> Let me repeat, after all that she only missed one 5-spot x. I would love for any of you to have a coach work on your grip and front arm and float pattern and make you use different firing engines and other stuff and only miss one x.
> 
> It was a absolute honor to work with a up and coming shooter that could take a suggestion and try it and then give the appropriate feed back to me of what it felt like, to me that spoke volumes of how good she may choose to be.


I had a heck of a time! Its a lot easier to learn when you have someone telling you if youre doing something right or wrong. Like i said, its fun having "homework" to work on thatll improve my shooting. And to finally solve my quivering elbow was a big bonus!


----------



## whynot7

Good Stuff keep it coming


----------



## dmacey

LadyBowhunter12 said:


> I had a heck of a time! Its a lot easier to learn when you have someone telling you if youre doing something right or wrong. Like i said, its fun having "homework" to work on thatll improve my shooting. And to finally solve my quivering elbow was a big bonus!


Yeah really... so how do _I_ get to go shoot with Padgett for a while.. 

DM


----------



## Padgett

LadyBowhunter12 mentioned her quivering elbow and I want to talk about that because it was something that I could have chosen to leave alone as a issue for another day but it turned into a Huge part of the shooting session. 

Her shooting form is actually very solid from head to toe and as a coach I could have justified not messing with it at all but after watching about 10 arrows I noticed one little thing that was weird, her elbow had a constant quiver in it. I though at first it could have been some nerves so I asked her about it and she said it had been something going on in her shooting for a while even by herself with no nerves at all. 

She has a doubble jointed arm and she can easily make the elbow go past what I would call straight and the elbow can stick out and get hit by the string, So basically she makes her arm overly straight and the and the elbow was kind of sticking out but not really. 

So we walked over to the wall and put our palm on the wall and leaned into the wall with our body I demonstrated perfectly straight and then backing off just a tad barely Breaking The Elbow. I use that phrase instead of saying bending the elbow because you don't really bend the elbow far enough to need muscle assistance, you just break free from being locked out and you still have the benefit of bone to bone contact but the elbow just isn't locked out. 

Then she drew back and shot with a non quivering elbow even on the first attempt.

Then we talked about the pre shot location of the bow, She had her cam on her hip and this caused her arm to not be fully extended into the perfect position and as she drew she had to in one motion get to that perfect new elbow position. So I showed her how to use the rear bar in her hip which allowed her to extend her arm to the perfect elbow position before starting the draw portion. This allowed her to focus on setting her grip and elbow and then start her shot instead of starting her shot and then trying to finalize things as she came to anchor.

It was a instant fix kind of thing and her float shrunk for the first time in the shooting session, I already knew what the next thing was going to be but I wanted her to get a good 15 or so shots in her system with the new elbow setting and the rear bar in the hip.


----------



## Padgett

The next thing we worked on was her grip pressure, thankfully her grip looked perfect. It wasn't about changing the angle or fingers because she is using the proper competitive grip we teach all the time here. What I talked to her about is where the riser should be pushing into the grip in her hand and within 2 minutes she comprehended what I was saying and she stepped up to the shooting line and was able to execute more x's even while using the low grip instead of a high grip.


----------



## Padgett

I again let her shoot a good 15 shots or so with the low grip along with the new elbow bend and then I dropped a big bomb on her, Back Tension Preload.

In all reality I was getting into the 4th thing to present to a shooter in one shooting session and for most shooters their brain would have exploded but with her I presented what back tension preload is and then she stepped up to the line and simply drilled x's over and over with it.

Again right about this time she mentioned that her float shrunk again and her pin was now floating inside the x almost all the time and she was experiencing some dead still float during some of the shots.


----------



## Padgett

At this point we talked about some of the other execution things that I wanted to cover so there was a good hour of discussion and shooting that took place where she listened and then banged x's using each firing enging I gave here and we worked on what aiming really is and what float really is. It was a fun discussion to have with her and we can discuss it sometime here if you guys want to.

But after that portion of the discussion I dropped a nuclear explosion on her, I was worried that this would totally screw up her near perfect shooting session. At this point she had only missed one x after a good 1 hour and 45 minutes of coaching and shooting. 

I stopped her and said, we need to change your hinge. For the first time I thought I saw some doubt in her eyes but I told her that as good as she handled adding back tension preload to her system that we could do this in a few minutes and really clean up her shot process. At that time she was coming to anchor and adding some back tension and then rotating the hinge with her fingers to get to click, I told her that we could change the hinge speed so that when she came to anchor and added the preload the hinge would click right then without having to waste time rotating the fingers.

About 3 minutes later we found a good setting with only about 3 down draws and she started banging x's, she did request to back off the speed just a little so we slowed down the hinge just a 1/16 of a turn and found a great setting where she was drawing with all fingers and coming to anchor and getting to click without having to rotate the hand or fingers at all. Again she just kept banging x's.


----------



## Padgett

In the beginning of the session she was hitting x's a little low right or dead on and by the time we were done after 3 hours she hadn't changed the sight but she was now hitting on the upper half of the x and to the left side or dead on. The changes to the front arm and grip and also the back tension preload with the hinge change all added up to moving the arrow on the x in a good way. 

Why do I say a good way, because she learned a valuable lesson that preload along with a low grip offers. It erases that feeling that the bow is going to drop out the bottom at any moment, these two things allow you to stay so sweet and solid in your execution the bow doesn't feel weird where you have to fight the urge to drop out. It just floats and allows you to do your thing.


----------



## aread

Padgett,

Thank you for a glimpse of what a great coaching session looks like!! :thumbs_up

Allen


----------



## Padgett

I have coached a variety of athletes for a long time and to me the hardest thing is to be able to look a person over and know what things you can cover and get positive reactions out of them right off the bat. With her the moment that I saw that she was having a good shooting day I didn't want to cover something that screwed that good shooting up. So I was really selective in the beginning and chose simple things to get the ball rolling, this allowed her to have success with the little things and it gave her confidence in what I was saying and it just built up into a great session. 

That great session was a two way street because I had to do things in the correct order and she had to respond to the coaching so we could continue to progress to new concepts. She kept responding and her shooting kept ramping up so things just got better and better. 

What is really cool is that I had to actually pull back and not go over one specific thing that I really wanted to do with her, I can't even put it here because I want it to be a surprise the next time we get to do a session. So hopefully the next time she makes it down my way her shooting is solid and we can tackle the surprise, if she can do it and continue to pound x's I will be beyond happy.


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## jim p

She seems to be an exceptional person.


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## TNMAN

It's a long time pattern. School teachers often make good archery coaches. Personally, I couldn't coach starving wolves into eating red meat.


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## dmacey

Padgett said:


> What is really cool is that I had to actually pull back and not go over one specific thing that I really wanted to do with her, I can't even put it here because I want it to be a surprise the next time we get to do a session. So hopefully the next time she makes it down my way her shooting is solid and we can tackle the surprise, if she can do it and continue to pound x's I will be beyond happy.


Aw, c'mon, Padgett, spill the beans. You built us up here, now you're honor-bound to take us back down! What is it? 

DM


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## Padgett

I really can't, I know that she is reading this thread because she started the thread. I want to be there when I tell her what we are going to do and guide her through the process first hand without her messing around at home or on the range.

It is a door that I am going to open for her and it may not even be a door that she ends up going through but I want to at least do it right.


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