# Amateur Hour is OVER......2010 DESTROYER pics.....



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

no GEARS here......


----------



## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

Sweet. Looks like one of the pieces you'd get in one of the Lego Star Wars kits.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Great..Now tell us what the hell it is.


----------



## BriceJ MI (Feb 5, 2009)

Sha Zam Andy that is nice!


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

*All photos & videos posted by ROGUE73 are copyright protected.
Any reproduction or retransmission outside of Archery Talk is strictly prohibited. *



Your sig made me chuckle btw...


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

Id like to see some schematics of the entire system. The pic of the flyer on the other thread is blurry...I could not figure it out from the pic.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Looks like an AXLE to me......*

Sha Zam.....is right....


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> Sha Zam.....is right....


What is the point of the design?????


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

DeepFried said:


> Great..Now tell us what the hell it is.


Its the new axle on the Bowtech Destroyer. I guess its still called an axle.


----------



## NCTribute (Jan 28, 2007)

*Axle*



DeepFried said:


> What is the point of the design?????


Merely an eccentric shaft with a spline. Duh.


----------



## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

I thought it was supposed to be a sealed axle. Looks like it has potential to collect debris inside the enclosure.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

I bet that thing shifts the cam behind the axle similar to the Mathews AVS system. Just a guess.


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

OK...OK...get to the full bow shots. :darkbeer:


----------



## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

Looks like there onto something really innovative. Wow.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

NCTribute said:


> Merely an eccentric shaft with a spline. Duh.


Dont be a jerk. I was just asking...


----------



## MrSinister (Jan 23, 2003)

Hmmm. A cam on the cam I guess. Kind of like Mathews did with those dual cams they made. We need more explanation. I would guess that if you have to replace the cam and axel setup it might require a four year degree?


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Top view....*

No DEBRIS here.....


----------



## 515bowhunter (Apr 2, 2008)

Send me one of the bows and I will volunteer my time for R&D. I'll go stick a turkey with it and make sure they are GTG.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Would that be classified as a Hybrid or Binary cam? Or a true Dual cam?


----------



## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

What about from the top ?http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=660150&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1256687085


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

ROGUE73 said:


> No DEBRIS here.....


I love Bowtech and always will but, you got plenty of potential to get debris all in the mix from what I see.......

Are their sealed bearing in there along that axle?


----------



## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

Are those laminated limbs I see?


----------



## Perceval (Nov 25, 2008)

- when are we supposed to crank the second gear ? just after the release ?
- the gearselector is on the handle or wifi driven ? 
- does it need full-synthetic oil ? 
- is there a reverse-gear ? 


hum ........i'm sorry can't prevent myself but it sounds interesting


----------



## 31EX (May 23, 2008)

Looks like you could really screw up the sync between the yoke and the cam with that spline? How are you supposed to know what the proper orientation is?


----------



## BradMc26 (Oct 16, 2002)

You have to hand it to Bowtech. They are constantly pushing the envelope.

Cant wait to read the reviews on this new bow. It looks sweet.

2010 is going to be an amazing year!


----------



## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

Wow that thing has more bearings than a Shimano. I bet its fast.


----------



## NCTribute (Jan 28, 2007)

*Get a life.*



DeepFried said:


> Dont be a jerk. I was just asking...


Chill out and get a sense of humour. Didn't you ever read MAD magazine? Snappy answers to stupid questions.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*bearing holders.....*

the bearings are in the BLACK Bearing Holders on the limb tips......the AXLE is static.....see post #17.


----------



## hoggin03 (Oct 24, 2005)

Oh Man. With all that new innovation, this bow is sure to BLOW UP the industry!:mg:


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Binary.....*



31EX said:


> Looks like you could really screw up the sync between the yoke and the cam with that spline? How are you supposed to know what the proper orientation is?


what part of BINARY don't you get?.....


----------



## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

Are those also bearings on the axle ends? Is this going to be a speed bow? I also love the red lamination.


----------



## ManOfKnight (Mar 5, 2009)

I am already in love with that bow.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Cam Rotation....*

Cam Rotation.....BINARY.....


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*340fps & 350fps....*



john09040 said:


> Are those also bearings on the axle ends? Is this going to be a speed bow? I also love the red lamination.


340fps/7" brace height.....350fps/6" brace height......you be the judge....


----------



## 29innovator70 (Sep 17, 2006)

alright, alright, how about a full bow pic?


----------



## 31EX (May 23, 2008)

DeepFried said:


> What is the point of the design?????


The spline couples the cam to the axle so when you draw back the string and rotate the cam the cam drives the axle rotationally. And since the axle has off center yoke spools, the axle drives the yoke in a similar manner to an eccentric, round cam.. Why? Not sure if they are trying to change the draw force curve or they believe it payouts and helps offset string/cable stretch.


----------



## elmoore (Jul 13, 2006)

29innovator70 said:


> alright, alright, how about a full bow pic?



Yea, how bout it !!!:teeth:


----------



## ManOfKnight (Mar 5, 2009)

350FPS or 340FPS options...I think I would take the 340 option as it has the 7" brace height.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

NCTribute said:


> Chill out and get a sense of humour. Didn't you ever read MAD magazine? Snappy answers to stupid questions.


What me worry?


----------



## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> 340fps/7" brace height.....350fps/6" brace height......you be the judge....


Will it come in 25" draw Length? I am going to get a new speed bow as soon as I see everything thats coming out. That looks sweet.


----------



## 31EX (May 23, 2008)

ROGUE73 said:


> what part of BINARY don't you get?.....


The fact that it has splines to orientate the cam to the yoke.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

I must have a different definition of a traditional "Binary" cam system. That...to me...is a dual cam but the axle is also cam'd. The only other thing that is different is the location of the axle. But its far from what I would call "Binary".


----------



## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

Sexy cams too. I feel like I am looking at top secret Stealth photos.


----------



## kwilde (Jul 10, 2006)

how does it shoot?


----------



## VA2 (Mar 26, 2007)

:mg:


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

31EX said:


> The spline couples the cam to the axle so when you draw back the string and rotate the cam the cam drives the axle rotationally. And since the axle has off center yoke spools, the axle drives the yoke in a similar manner to an eccentric, round cam.. Why? Not sure if they are trying to change the draw force curve or they believe it payouts and helps offset string/cable stretch.


Thats what i was looking for...Thank you.


----------



## moosetrack (Aug 13, 2005)

first cool as hell, second not trying to be a smart ass but it looks like they wont have to worry about the axle spliting the limbs with that designe..


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

31EX said:


> The spline couples the cam to the axle so when you draw back the string and rotate the cam the cam drives the axle rotationally. And since the axle has off center yoke spools, the axle drives the yoke in a similar manner to an eccentric, round cam.. Why? Not sure if they are trying to change the draw force curve or they believe it payouts and helps offset string/cable stretch.


My guess is it contributes to a smoother roll over into the valley and contributes to the letoff.

Its definitely caught my eye! Cant wait to shoot it!


----------



## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

john09040 said:


> Will it come in 25" draw Length? I am going to get a new speed bow as soon as I see everything thats coming out. That looks sweet.



The Destroyer 350 does. Its draw length is 25"-30" in 1/2" increments.


----------



## Had a Hoyt (Nov 28, 2006)

My guess is that this system is to eliminate the cam lean that the binary cams are so bad for. In fact that simple little truth is what has keeps me from buying binary system.

If they eliminate even half the lean that I observed on an Ally that I test fired back a few years ago I might consider one. Those binaries produce some good speed, but that sideways motion induced by a leaning cam is a bad, bad, bad deal in my mind. (I am sure I there will be attempts to tell me that the cam lean is not that bad, or does not affect the arrow flight, or that it is no worse than any other bow). Some advice to you if you feel the urge "correct me" - I will laugh, then think how can it be that so many bow hunters think a leaning cam has no affect ...


----------



## 31EX (May 23, 2008)

poole said:


> My guess is it contributes to a smoother roll over into the valley and contributes to the letoff.
> 
> Its definitely caught my eye! Cant wait to shoot it!


Maybe...it sure will be neat to see in person and shoot!


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Binary overdrive....*

BINARY Overdrive cut-out.....


----------



## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

Looks to me as if it would be more durable as far as limb strength goes but add mass to the limb tip offsetting some of the gained efficiency.


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

ROGUE73 said:


> 340fps/7" brace height.....350fps/6" brace height......you be the judge....


The Judge says you finally caught up to 2007 speeds. Interesting concept, but my early conclusion is that this is about as innovative as the last several years worth of Bowtech "innovations". I.e. center pivot technology that failed to really accomplish much of anything. 

Should be an interesting bow, but I'd likely hold off from labeling this post "amateur hour is OVER". There are already bows on the market with more impressive specs than this one. Again, I'm not bashing it, because I like all kinds of bows, but I always shudder when I hear stuff like the above.

True innovations are few and far between.


----------



## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

BowTech_Shooter said:


> The Destroyer 350 does. Its draw length is 25"-30" in 1/2" increments.


This may be a Bowtech year for me then.


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

OK get on with the FULL bow pics.


----------



## mw31 (Apr 23, 2007)

:set1_applaud::set1_applaud::set1_applaud:


----------



## 29innovator70 (Sep 17, 2006)

MOC said:


> The Judge says you finally caught up to 2007 speeds. Interesting concept, but my early conclusion is that this is about as innovative as the last several years worth of Bowtech "innovations". I.e. center pivot technology that failed to really accomplish much of anything.
> 
> Should be an interesting bow, but I'd likely hold off from labeling this post "amateur hour is OVER". There are already bows on the market with more impressive specs than this one. Again, I'm not bashing it, because I like all kinds of bows, but I always shudder when I hear stuff like the above.
> 
> True innovations are few and far between.


You can't be serious?


----------



## camoman73 (Jul 7, 2007)

looks cool, but man all those lil ball bearings scare me, i dont know guess i will have to try one out and see it in person.


----------



## bow duke ny (Oct 15, 2006)

Awesome, Green with Envy they are.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mg:


----------



## krblackcat (May 6, 2005)

*your killing me*

More pics plz lol i want to see that roller guard :teeth:


----------



## possum boy (Sep 7, 2008)

this is torture, i wanna see the whole thing already!!!


----------



## Montana Rawhide (Jul 13, 2006)

Maybe, just maybe, a new 2010 is a possibility.


----------



## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

poole said:


> I must have a different definition of a traditional "Binary" cam system. That...to me...is a dual cam but the axle is also cam'd. The only other thing that is different is the location of the axle. But its far from what I would call "Binary".


Yeah, I thought that binary cams were slaved directly to each other.



poole said:


> My guess is it contributes to a smoother roll over into the valley and contributes to the letoff.


That's what I was thinking too.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Center Pivot Limb Holder....*

The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow.....


----------



## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow.....


Thats a sexy limb pocket.


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

Good looking limb pockets. :mg:


----------



## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

If the cams aren't tied to each other (which those clearly aren't, since one end of the buss cable is attached to the limb), those aren't "binary" cams. 

I'm curious to see the full pic.


----------



## jwamp82 (Nov 4, 2005)

ROGUE73 said:


> The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow.....


Are you stretching this out cause you don't have anything better to do??
Describe, Explain, show pics, I hate reading 100 posts before I get to some useful information!!!


----------



## Joe H. (Sep 15, 2007)

31EX said:


> The spline couples the cam to the axle so when you draw back the string and rotate the cam the cam drives the axle rotationally. And since the axle has off center yoke spools, the axle drives the yoke in a similar manner to an eccentric, round cam.. Why? Not sure if they are trying to change the draw force curve or they believe it payouts and helps offset string/cable stretch.


Uhhhhhh-huh-huh, yeah....that!
You have got to be an enjuneer 'er sumthin!
It does look interesting/innovative.


----------



## kwilde (Jul 10, 2006)

"The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow....." 


Does it shoot like the center pivots we are familiar with?


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

CherryJu1ce said:


> If the cams aren't tied to each other (which those clearly aren't, since one end of the buss cable is attached to the limb), those aren't "binary" cams.
> 
> I'm curious to see the full pic.


+1 I agree.


----------



## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

john09040 said:


> Thats a sexy limb pocket.


Agreed


----------



## Orion_Jeff (Apr 1, 2009)

CherryJu1ce said:


> If the cams aren't tied to each other (which those clearly aren't, since one end of the buss cable is attached to the limb), those aren't "binary" cams.
> 
> I'm curious to see the full pic.


I thought the same at first, but if you go through the pics and start to think about it, you will figure out that they actually are tied together.


----------



## joeyb (Jan 2, 2003)

More pics!


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

kwilde said:


> how does it shoot?


From a friend with first hand knowledge, one of the smoothest drawing bows you will pull, great valley, solid wall and with all that speed, it lacks vibration and noise. Described to me "Like no bow you've ever shot before", and I've shot an extreme amount of bows. :teeth: :shade:


----------



## TTripin (Oct 17, 2007)

jwamp82 said:


> Are you stretching this out cause you don't have anything better to do??
> Describe, Explain, show pics, I hate reading 100 posts before I get to some useful information!!!


just scroll down real fast till you see a picture...then stop...thats what I'm doing


----------



## J.C. (Aug 20, 2004)

CherryJu1ce said:


> If the cams aren't tied to each other (which those clearly aren't, since one end of the buss cable is attached to the limb), those aren't "binary" cams.
> 
> I'm curious to see the full pic.


the axle isnt free floating, it's splined to the cam so when the cam rotates, the offset tips of the axle rotate also and are attached to the cam on the opposite limb. they are slaved together.


----------



## rickd300mag (Apr 16, 2009)

Full pics pleeeeze!


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*don't know....;-0...*



kwilde said:


> "The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow....."
> 
> 
> Does it shoot like the center pivots we are familiar with?



we'll have one in hand to shoot---in the near future....


----------



## TTripin (Oct 17, 2007)

wow...almost a hundred in this one


----------



## BDHUNTR (May 24, 2003)

I feel like I'm in another Strother Archery thread.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

poole said:


> My guess is it contributes to a smoother roll over into the valley and contributes to the letoff.
> 
> Its definitely caught my eye! Cant wait to shoot it!


And it's described so smooth that you it's hard to believe that it's actually a speed bow. It will make a shooter wonder where all the speed comes from but it's THERE! :shade:


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*j.c.----you are the winner....*



J.C. said:


> the axle isnt free floating, it's splined to the cam so when the cam rotates, the offset tips of the axle rotate also and are attached to the cam on the opposite limb. they are slaved together.


j.c. wins the Sha Zam prize....


----------



## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

mdewitt71 said:


> OK get on with the FULL bow pics.




Come on Mike, you know good things come to those who wait...


----------



## TAP (May 28, 2002)

31EX said:


> The spline couples the cam to the axle so when you draw back the string and rotate the cam the cam drives the axle rotationally. And since the axle has off center yoke spools, the axle drives the yoke in a similar manner to an eccentric, round cam.. Why? Not sure if they are trying to change the draw force curve or they believe it payouts and helps offset string/cable stretch.


I am just wondering...... wouldn't any ole standard cam with the hole offset do the same thing? It would appear as though although unique it doesn't accomplish anything more than simply moving the point of rotation on the cam. I seem to remember bows MANY years ago that had more than one axle hole to achieve different draw force curves.... I could be wrong here, but that is all I can see that 'crankshaft' type axle doing?


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

J.C. said:


> the axle isnt free floating, it's splined to the cam so when the cam rotates, the offset tips of the axle rotate also and are attached to the cam on the opposite limb. they are slaved together.


Here is my truly "slaved" together test:

Pull the string from the center...do the cams roll over at the same time? Pull the string 6 inches above center....do the cams roll over at the same time? Pull the string 6 inches below center...do the cams roll over at the same time? you get the point....

With a dual cam you can pull the string in different places and the cams will rollover at different points, thus the need to creep tune and have the actual shooter shooting the bow for optimal tuning. With a true binary you can pull the string from anywhere and the cams will roll over at the same time. If the cams r sync'd for me, you could shoot it and they would be synced for you. This may be more of a sync'd dually, but my bet is that it is not truly slaved. It essentially does the same thing as my XLR8's AVS...just in a slightly different fashion.


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

29innovator70 said:


> You can't be serious?


I can be. I understand the concept, but fail to be impressed by center pivot technology in feel and function. I don't believe I am alone.


----------



## 31EX (May 23, 2008)

ROGUE73 said:


> j.c. wins the Sha Zam prize....


Which is why I asked how do you know the axle is correctly orientated to the cam?


----------



## tomk09 (Apr 18, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow.....[/QUOTE
> if thats a center pivot the limbs must be about 6 inches long...... it actually looks alot like the martin limb pockets


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

kwilde said:


> "The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow....."
> 
> 
> Does it shoot like the center pivots we are familiar with?


From first hand experience, this was told to me from a friend who has several CP bows, 

"This bow is going to be like no bow you've ever shot before". And I trust the guys statement as he's owned and shot a ton of bows. 

:darkbeer:


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Risers......*

340 & 350 risers.....


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> we'll have one in hand to shoot---in the near future....



Many shops and people will ! :teeth:


----------



## joeyb (Jan 2, 2003)

I am wondering if you can get :teeth:ceramic bearings for it?


----------



## 29innovator70 (Sep 17, 2006)

MOC said:


> I can be. I understand the concept, but fail to be impressed by center pivot technology in feel and function. I don't believe I am alone.


To say you don't like it is one thing, but to say it didn't accomplish anything is totally different. The center pivot design is easily the quietest out there, and whether you'll admit it or not, that is true innovation.


----------



## jwamp82 (Nov 4, 2005)

poorguy said:


> many shops and people will ! :teeth:


when???


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

The only question have is....

*When can i order one??????*


----------



## lzeplin (Jan 19, 2008)

This would have to be the best bowtech ever!!! its got great limbs and with the split buss'es you can tune it,, GOOD JOB BOWTECH,,,


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Correction: NOT Center Pivot----LONG POCKET bow...*

The correct term for the Destroyer's limb pocket design is "Long Pocket" design.

Also---the bow is definitely a "BINARY". The reason it IS a binary is that the eccentric cam axle and the letout groove perform the same function: to feed cable to the opposite cam in letoff.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

29innovator70 said:


> To say you don't like it is one thing, but to say it didn't accomplish anything is totally different. The center pivot design is easily the quietest out there, and whether you'll admit it or not, that is true innovation.


Exactly and +1....


----------



## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

ROGUE73 said:


> The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow.....


this part i ilke..


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

WOW!!!!!



DeepFried, wild thang, STELLIX, Bigwookie009, proskinnertts, JS1440, johnboy1, lzeplin, Tfox1, adam330, SteveID, camo-timber, Big Dog, beast, Apache, bowtechaholic, ansci, scottieoutwest, AJL, montigre, poole, Stefan, ROGUE73, 0zarks2, moosetrack, T22, TAP, tmoran, Mr. Burns+, x-by-x, bcriner, Biggun 150, NY911, painterman, KurtVL, DIAMONDTOM, Cantgetright, aug01build, freddyd, t-roys, Riverghost, Orion_Jeff, tcollecter, SecretAgnt, gecl, jwamp82, beak, jkohler22, buck76, tomk09, tatso7, john09040, plottman, Jari, 31EX, bowhunter_300, jason11, 84toy, Livetohunt, BriceJ MI, Bears a beast, jlark, cgchris99, rmadduxjr, BradMc26, 1mitch4, elkhunter, shaner3d, UCH, Washi, green head, J.C., rackemnsmackm, ChristianArcher, joeyb, kwilde, cody9228, Fuzz_4, IL Biologist, x-ring-1, [email protected], 3Dobsessed, kep, TTripin, krblackcat, pjridge, possum boy, BowTech_Shooter+, Savannahsdad, bentcam, bows-n-guns, mobuckchaser, wedge_man, jgd2305, klemsontigers7


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

Rogue73..the king of suspense. Are we at the climax yet? How am I going to know when to get of the dang computer tongiht?


----------



## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

ROGUE73 said:


> j.c. wins the Sha Zam prize....


That offset axle oscillation can't possibly have any mechanical advantage over the opposite cam. Same with the monster. To say that the cams are synched with this system is a stretch at best. Somewhat controlled maybe but in no way synched like a binary. I do see how they are linked to each other but they are not slaved.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> The correct term for the Destroyer's limb pocket design is "Long Pocket" design.
> 
> Also---the bow is definitely a "BINARY". The reason it IS a binary is that the eccentric cam axle and the letout groove perform the same function: to feed cable to the opposite cam in letoff.


You must have been one of the guys in the video that stole the info!!!:mg:


----------



## BriceJ MI (Feb 5, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> WOW!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> DeepFried, wild thang, STELLIX, Bigwookie009, proskinnertts, JS1440, johnboy1, lzeplin, Tfox1, adam330, SteveID, camo-timber, Big Dog, beast, Apache, bowtechaholic, ansci, scottieoutwest, AJL, montigre, poole, Stefan, ROGUE73, 0zarks2, moosetrack, T22, TAP, tmoran, Mr. Burns+, x-by-x, bcriner, Biggun 150, NY911, painterman, KurtVL, DIAMONDTOM, Cantgetright, aug01build, freddyd, t-roys, Riverghost, Orion_Jeff, tcollecter, SecretAgnt, gecl, jwamp82, beak, jkohler22, buck76, tomk09, tatso7, john09040, plottman, Jari, 31EX, bowhunter_300, jason11, 84toy, Livetohunt, BriceJ MI, Bears a beast, jlark, cgchris99, rmadduxjr, BradMc26, 1mitch4, elkhunter, shaner3d, UCH, Washi, green head, J.C., rackemnsmackm, ChristianArcher, joeyb, kwilde, cody9228, Fuzz_4, IL Biologist, x-ring-1, [email protected], 3Dobsessed, kep, TTripin, krblackcat, pjridge, possum boy, BowTech_Shooter+, Savannahsdad, bentcam, bows-n-guns, mobuckchaser, wedge_man, jgd2305, klemsontigers7


just checking things out lol, only bow so far thats peeked my intrest


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Oooohhhh ooooohhhh.....*



DeepFried said:


> You must have been one of the guys in the video that stole the info!!!:mg:


:shade::shade::shade:


----------



## x-by-x (Sep 3, 2004)

Why is it everyone is trying to be the engineer here and say whether or not the cams are binary, or that the bow isn't center pivot? Sounds like some of us have a case of the complain-too-much virus. Why do I see that in every Bowtech post? They come out with new things, push the envelope, and people still complain. Don't remember complaints about Mathews using the preloaded split limb idea!!!!!:mg:

x


----------



## Drifter0678 (Oct 2, 2009)

So, how about some pics of the bow it's self???? :darkbeer:


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

poole said:


> Rogue73..the king of suspense. Are we at the climax yet? How am I going to know when to get of the dang computer tongiht?



Not yet. :teeth:


----------



## x-by-x (Sep 3, 2004)

By the way, I shoot Mathews.

x


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

29innovator70 said:


> To say you don't like it is one thing, but to say it didn't accomplish anything is totally different. The center pivot design is easily the quietest out there, and whether you'll admit it or not, that is true innovation.


Easily the quietest? What test are you basing this on?


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

x-by-x said:


> Why is it everyone is trying to be the engineer here and say whether or not the cams are binary, or that the bow isn't center pivot? Sounds like some of us have a case of the *complain-too-much virus. * Why do I see that in every Bowtech post? They come out with new things, push the envelope, and people still complain. Don't remember complaints about Mathews using the preloaded split limb idea!!!!!:mg:
> 
> x


And it's contagious. Even if this bow, and it will likely be one of them, the best shooting bow every manufactured, there will still be someone who complains. You just watch and see.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Flex guard....*

Flex Guard....


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

MOC said:


> Easily the quietest? What test are you basing this on?



All of them. :shade:


----------



## HammyAbeer (Jul 15, 2008)

To get 350 with a centerpivot will be cool to see if indeed it does meet IBO.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

x-by-x said:


> Why is it everyone is trying to be the engineer here and say whether or not the cams are binary, or that the bow isn't center pivot? Sounds like some of us have a case of the complain-too-much virus. Why do I see that in every Bowtech post? They come out with new things, push the envelope, and people still complain. Don't remember complaints about Mathews using the preloaded split limb idea!!!!!:mg:
> 
> x


Whos complaining? Im pumped about the new design. I thought we were simply discussing the new technology??

Im not a fanboy of any 1 company so in the end if it does what I want it to I could give a crap what the cam system is called or who makes it...or who copies who. I do however like technology and that is why I was discussing it with the other "complainers".


----------



## rickd300mag (Apr 16, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> The only question have is....
> 
> *When can i order one??????*


x2! I want one!


----------



## jwamp82 (Nov 4, 2005)

ROGUE73 said:


> Flex Guard....


Is it laminated too?!!! :wink:


----------



## 31EX (May 23, 2008)

Poorguy said:


> And it's contagious. Even if this bow, and it will likely be one of them, the best shooting bow every manufactured, there will still be someone who complains. You just watch and see.


I think the reason is because no other bow manufacturer came out with anything that crazy and new this year. I guess you know you have peaked some interest when the arm-chair-engineers show up!


----------



## 29innovator70 (Sep 17, 2006)

Poorguy said:


> All of them. :shade:


Exactly:thumbs_up


----------



## BriceJ MI (Feb 5, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> Flex Guard....


Hey rogue u know there standard camo this year?


----------



## maitland (Dec 30, 2008)

Guys, this is how you get around a payout track royalty!


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

MOC said:


> Easily the quietest? What test are you basing this on?



Its widely known in the archery world that the Guardian is the quietest bow ever. If you dont believe it then you are in denial.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Wow. I was all set on a new Elite, but I may have to wait and try this baby out first. It looks sweet. The only thing that worries me is that flexguard.


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

BowTech_Shooter said:


> Come on Mike, you know good things come to those who wait...


I know brother, but I gotta get up at 0330..............and these teases aint cutting it.


----------



## KYchessie (Aug 23, 2006)

31EX said:


> Which is why I asked how do you know the axle is correctly orientated to the cam?


Keyed splines?

Just a guess.


----------



## 515bowhunter (Apr 2, 2008)

MOC said:


> The Judge says you finally caught up to 2007 speeds. Interesting concept, but my early conclusion is that this is about as innovative as the last several years worth of Bowtech "innovations". I.e. center pivot technology that failed to really accomplish much of anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

31EX said:


> Which is why I asked how do you know the axle is correctly orientated to the cam?


 Don't take it apart and put it back together wrong,, if it will go together wrong that is.:star: The axle is "keyed" to the cam bore.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*don't know about camo...*



BriceJ MI said:


> Hey rogue u know there standard camo this year?


i hope they're all black.....:shade:


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

DeepFried said:


> Its widely known in the archery world that the Guardian is the quietest bow ever. If you dont believe it then you are in denial.


Right.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

HammyAbeer said:


> To get 350 with a centerpivot will be cool to see if indeed it does meet IBO.


And then some for many. Remember, Bowtech takes a middle ground on their IBO ratings, they don't take the top number as many companies do. Some will likely see better than IBO. That's what we've found on a lot of runs off the line in 09.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

MOC said:


> Right.


Yep.....:darkbeer:


----------



## paradis1142 (Jun 25, 2006)

Lets see this thing.


----------



## bowdude (Jan 9, 2004)

the camo available on the destroyer is hardwoods grey only and black....

and the axle is pressed in from the factory, not something you can just disassemble..

the flex guard works just like a carbon cable slide they also flex when drawn this takes alot of torque out of the riser.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

I see a 350 in my future.....


----------



## 29innovator70 (Sep 17, 2006)

MOC said:


> Right.


I'm glad you see it our way.


----------



## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Dang:confused3: I hope you took the pics of the bow before you took it apart


----------



## OrangeBlood (Jan 12, 2009)

what a joke


----------



## Chris/AL (Oct 3, 2009)

mkeyes001 said:


> what a joke


and since you are here, you are clearly interested in it.


----------



## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

DeepFried said:


> Its widely known in the archery world that the Guardian is the quietest bow ever. If you dont believe it then you are in denial.


the general had it beat. I owned two of each, side by side. the general was a tab quieter.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

joeyb said:


> I am wondering if you can get :teeth:ceramic bearings for it?


 You won't have to worry about upgrading the bearings in this baby:shade:


----------



## panther2307 (Feb 12, 2008)

i really like center pivot technology but this bow doesn't look very center pivot to me.i'm not bashing,i'm a bowtech man.just speaking my opinion.


----------



## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

Very nice Rogue. hats off to the engineers.

The outboard, small dia ends of the axles don't want to bend from a dry fire?


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

Mr. Burns said:


> the general had it beat. I owned two of each, side by side. the general was a tab quieter.


The guys over at archeryevolution performed an objective test that proved otherwise....but thats another thread. They were both quiet though.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

panther2307 said:


> i really like center pivot technology but this bow doesn't look very center pivot to me.i'm not bashing,i'm a bowtech man.just speaking my opinion.


It's not exactly "center" pivot but it's on the same line as them. Obviously with the picture of the limb pockets, it's more elongated and not exactly set to center on the limbs however, the lack of noise and lack of vibration of the CP line is present in the Destroyers.


----------



## Jhorne (Jul 15, 2003)

2 hours and almost 1700 hits.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*correction:Not center pivot...*



panther2307 said:


> i really like center pivot technology but this bow doesn't look very center pivot to me.i'm not bashing,i'm a bowtech man.just speaking my opinion.


the Destroyer is NOT a Center Pivot....it is termed a "LONG POCKET" design.


----------



## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

poole said:


> The guys over at archeryevolution performed an objective test that proved otherwise....but thats another thread. They were both quiet though.


i was also running two suppressors on my generals (if that makes a difference, and i am sure it does) i had string tamers (duravane ones) on the guardians, and the factore suppressor on the general, as well as a rear mounted STS. (i cant stand having an empty hole like that and have it not doing something, so thats why i added them)


----------



## Mikegb88 (Aug 17, 2007)

MOC said:


> The Judge says you finally caught up to 2007 speeds. Interesting concept, but my early conclusion is that this is about as innovative as the last several years worth of Bowtech "innovations". I.e. center pivot technology that failed to really accomplish much of anything.
> 
> Should be an interesting bow, but I'd likely hold off from labeling this post "amateur hour is OVER". There are already bows on the market with more impressive specs than this one. Again, I'm not bashing it, because I like all kinds of bows, but I always shudder when I hear stuff like the above.
> 
> True innovations are few and far between.


Hmm, your lacking alot of concepts. 

"Center pivot technology failed to accomplish anything?" Are you kidding? It only helped to design the quietist bow on the market, and leaving many companies to design simular concepts of having their bows pivot more to the center.

"Other bows with more impressive specs" It does not mean anything if you get those speeds with a constant 70 draw force curve that pops into the valley and the draw feels like a ton. Now if you get a bow that draws very easy, and shoots these speeds, thats innovation.

...


----------



## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

Wow, my interest is really piqued at this point.

If this bow will shoot with my 82nd speedwise, have an easier draw cycle than the 82nd, and be a quiet and shock free as my General... I have a feeling that a Destroyer 350 will be in my future.

Can't wait to shoot one and see for myself. :darkbeer:


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Hardcore limbs....*

Laminated high modulus carbon core limbs.


----------



## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

mdewitt71 said:


> I know brother, but I gotta get up at 0330..............and these teases aint cutting it.




Look... I've been a civilian for over 20 years so quit using military time on me...

I will assure you, you'll like - edit - love this bow...:shade:


----------



## NJ-ATHENS (Jan 26, 2007)

just wait when the teath where down on the axle your cam will be slipping, there will be problemes with thise bow i can see it now


----------



## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

lzeplin said:


> This would have to be the best bowtech ever!!! its got great limbs and with the split buss'es you can tune it,, GOOD JOB BOWTECH,,,


Have these limbs been used before? I'm just wondering because you said they are great.



31EX said:


> I think the reason is because no other bow manufacturer came out with anything that crazy and new this year. I guess you know you have peaked some interest when the arm-chair-engineers show up!


Nothing crazy and new? You mean like a carbon riser or anything like that (I guess not new if you actually count those carbon jokes made in the 90's, but definitely crazy)?


----------



## Mikegb88 (Aug 17, 2007)

ROGUE73 said:


> i hope they're all black.....:shade:


Me too. Would love the 350 IBO in all black.


----------



## camo-timber (Mar 22, 2003)

It's going to be midnight before we see the bow, Quit stalling D&^%&it


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Mikegb88 said:


> Hmm, your lacking alot of concepts.
> 
> "Center pivot technology failed to accomplish anything?" Are you kidding? It only helped to design the quietist bow on the market, and leaving many companies to design simular concepts of having their bows pivot more to the center.
> 
> ...


Well said Mike. When specs come at the price of a hard hump in the draw cycle and extreme noise and vibration well then sure, a lot of bows have similar specs but, the Destroyer will be like none of these so called speed bows. The speed will not come at a cost of anything you see I've mentioned. The noise will that of the CP line, all but none and without vibration and one of the smoothest draws you'll fine out of all the non speed bows. 

From a first hand experienced shooter, we'll be shocked when drawing it thinking where does the speed come from, but the speed is there. I'm looking forward to testing it myself.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*"This ain't your Daddy's Bow".......*

Here it is....Destroyer 2010....Long Pocket Design...Hard Core Limbs....Flx-Guard cable containment system.....Binary Overdrive system....


----------



## panther2307 (Feb 12, 2008)

ROGUE73 said:


> the Destroyer is NOT a Center Pivot....it is termed a "LONG POCKET" design.


sorry i thought i read somewhere it was center pivot.now i'm more satisfied and less confused.thanks for the correction.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

NE1C_my_arrow said:


> Wow, my interest is really piqued at this point.
> 
> If this bow will shoot with my 82nd speedwise, have an easier draw cycle than the 82nd, and be a quiet and shock free as my General... I have a feeling that a Destroyer 350 will be in my future.
> 
> Can't wait to shoot one and see for myself. :darkbeer:


That's what we're saying. :teeth:


----------



## BriceJ MI (Feb 5, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> Here it is....


now those are sweet bows


----------



## 515bowhunter (Apr 2, 2008)

Only one last question, when will mine be here? :mg:


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> Here it is....Destroyer 2010....Long Pocket Design...Hard Core Limbs....Flx-Guard cable containment system.....Binary Overdrive system....


Show us the 350 now..........


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

ChappyHOYT said:


> Wow. I was all set on a new Elite, but I may have to wait and try this baby out first. It looks sweet. The only thing that worries me is that flexguard.


 It looks to me like it could be adjustable?


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

NJ-ELITE said:


> just wait when the *teath* *where* down on the axle your cam will be slipping, there will be *problemes* with *thise* bow *i* can see it now


Here, let me help you out. It's *teeth, wear, problems, these*, I .

And that's just your educated guess I'm assuming? :mg: :teeth: LMAO. 

Just fun'n with ya. 

:darkbeer:


----------



## Mikegb88 (Aug 17, 2007)

I want to see an all black 350. I did see the black risor!


----------



## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

I like the 7" brace of the 340 but I am liking the riser of the 350 a little more.


FF


----------



## elmoore (Jul 13, 2006)

OH MY !!!!!!!!! :darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer:


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

515bowhunter said:


> Only one last question, when will mine be here? :mg:


Get to your dealer, they are getting their information and be the first on the list. It won't be long until they start rolling in. Don't hesitate. :shade:


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

NJ-ELITE said:


> just wait when the teath where down on the axle your cam will be slipping, there will be problemes with thise bow i can see it now


 you're so deep


----------



## panther2307 (Feb 12, 2008)

i wasn't too sure about it at first but the more i see it the more i'm becoming interested in it.i wish it were center pivot instead of long pocket but i'll have to shoot it first before i wish anything were different,right.


----------



## elmoore (Jul 13, 2006)

How much are they going to cost? 

Like it will really matter, I will own one !!!


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> Here it is....Destroyer 2010....Long Pocket Design...Hard Core Limbs....Flx-Guard cable containment system.....Binary Overdrive system....



Incredible! :shade:


----------



## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

I'm guessing those teeth are harder than the back of your head.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

SteveID said:


> Have these limbs been used before? I'm just wondering because you said they are great.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing crazy and new? You mean like a carbon riser or anything like that (I guess not new if you actually count those carbon jokes made in the 90's, but definitely crazy)?



Don't let the woodpeckers land on that bow while hunting!!


----------



## bowdude (Jan 9, 2004)

MAP is $899


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

walks with a gi said:


> you're so deep



:lol3:


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Price....*



elmoore said:


> How much are they going to cost?
> 
> Like it will really matter, I will own one !!!


$949.00 suggested retail price.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Bob_Looney said:


> I'm guessing those teeth are harder than the back of your head.


 ,,,and those cams aren't made of 6061 T either..


----------



## trlcavscout (Jan 30, 2008)

bowdude said:


> MAP is $899


"Suggested retail $949.00"



Looks nice and I bet it shoots good, but theres no way I am dropping a G on it after the upgrade to all black.


----------



## elmoore (Jul 13, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> $949.00 suggested retail price.



I got a "GRAND" burning a hole in my pocket !!!


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*gotta love that attitude....*



elmoore said:


> I got a "GRAND" burning a hole in my pocket !!!


:mg::mg::mg:


----------



## heavy dart (May 4, 2005)

That is without a doubt the most amazing bow I have ever seen.:mg:


----------



## elmoore (Jul 13, 2006)

I can't wait to shoot one.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

I am going to have to sell one of my bows......:darkbeer:


----------



## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

*How about a 36 or 37 inch version?*

I wonder if there will be a longer version? Maybe a 36 or 37 incher???


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

DeepFried said:


> I am going to have to sell one of my bows......:darkbeer:


 Heck,, I'd have to sell 4!!


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

ROGUE73 said:


> BINARY Overdrive cut-out.....


This thing will go nowhere...............it's made by Savage...........


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

wdriver said:


> I wonder if there will be a longer version? Maybe a 36 or 37 incher???


Not at this time or this release.


----------



## sliverpicker (Oct 19, 2008)

*Hope it don't break*

With that world famous customer service at bowtech.......


----------



## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

Poorguy said:


> Not at this time or this release.



Well, I guess there's next year.....


----------



## Justin82 (Mar 12, 2009)

frankchugga said:


> This thing will go nowhere...............it's made by Savage...........


LOLs i love my 99 .308:darkbeer: and i will own this bow....


----------



## Luckiduc13 (Nov 1, 2004)

Has the grip changed any from the 09 bows?


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

MOC said:


> The Judge says you finally caught up to 2007 speeds. Interesting concept, but my early conclusion is that this is about as innovative as the last several years worth of Bowtech "innovations". I.e. center pivot technology that failed to really accomplish much of anything.
> 
> Should be an interesting bow, but I'd likely hold off from labeling this post "amateur hour is OVER". There are already bows on the market with more impressive specs than this one. Again, I'm not bashing it, because I like all kinds of bows, but I always shudder when I hear stuff like the above.
> 
> True innovations are few and far between.


:iamwithstupid:.....You're so right.......center pivots only yield the lowest noise and vibration of any bow made to date.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

frankchugga said:


> This thing will go nowhere...............it's made by Savage...........


 I'll give it a year and you'll have one of these too


----------



## Ben/PA (Feb 26, 2008)

DeepFried said:


> I am going to have to sell one of my bows......:darkbeer:



I did. I ordered a 340 in all black.


----------



## j.irvin (Sep 21, 2009)

What's the longest draw length available ? I better start saving money quick.


----------



## Ben/PA (Feb 26, 2008)

Mr. Rogue, my dealer was told by her rep that there was only two options one camo....HD gray or black. Can you elaborate at all?


----------



## timmothy (Sep 10, 2005)

Hmmm. Now how to pull a grand from the savings account without my wife noticing. For sale 80 lb '08 Guardian Testerosa with black cams.


----------



## panther2307 (Feb 12, 2008)

bowtechbenPA said:


> I did. I ordered a 340 in all black.


if you're serious i'd like to see it at a 3d shoot sometime.either shade mountain,buffalo valley sportsmen club or mid-penn.


----------



## bowtech jsat 50 (Aug 24, 2007)

*and I thought I would never buy a new bow again*

Might have to reconsider that.:darkbeer::darkbeer:


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Come on,,, post up!!:shade:



So far we have guys spending a grand on an axle, a cam, a riser and a rollerguard limb...

We need more pics:RockOn::dancing:


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

MOC said:


> Easily the quietest? What test are you basing this on?


Ever hear of the AT hunting bow evaluations??? The Guardian blew away all the other bows and the General is the first bow below the 80 db threshold. r u a Maffews fanboy by chance?..............


----------



## cpprhd1 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was leaning Hoyt, But now Destroyer 340.


----------



## Tax Lawyer (Feb 5, 2003)

Awesome pics.....thanks for posting. I can hardly wait to see one.....


----------



## bowdude (Jan 9, 2004)

the 6" brace (350) goes out to 30"

the 7" brace (340) goes out to 31"


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

dull boy said:


> What's the longest draw length available ? I better start saving money quick.




I think the 340 goes to 31 inch draw... so it'd be a 350:star:


----------



## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

walks with a gi said:


> Don't let the woodpeckers land on that bow while hunting!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_O9PLorYPA

Same technology is in the Carbon Matrix, I don't think the woodpeckers would be a big deal. Of course, you would have to be really snoozing to not notice them goin to work on your new bow. Have you had the chance to handle the Carbon Matrix yet? I'd say it could take a pretty good beating. Now about these new Bowtech Limbs...


----------



## Yichi (Dec 18, 2008)

So far this and the PSE Vendetta XL are the only 2010 bows that interest me that I would want to go shoot. 

I am liking the 340 riser more than the 350 riser. I wonder why they made them different?


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*FLX-GUARD video....*

Here's the Destroyer FLX-GUARD video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGzOWI_X-e8


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

SteveID said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_O9PLorYPA
> 
> Same technology is in the Carbon Matrix, I don't think the woodpeckers would be a big deal. Of course, you would have to be really snoozing to not notice them goin to work on your new bow. Have you had the chance to handle the Carbon Matrix yet? I'd say it could take a pretty good beating. Now about these new Bowtech Limbs...


 .....six layer carbon core, S glass and aluminum laminates,,, Hoyt's got nothin' on these:shade:


----------



## Shinigami3 (Oct 7, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> Laminated high modulus carbon core limbs.


The core is the last place you want to use carbon- if that's true it's a waste.

Aluminum laminates? Oh, this WILL be a fun year.


----------



## panther2307 (Feb 12, 2008)

ROGUE73 said:


> Here's the Destroyer FLX-GUARD video.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGzOWI_X-e8


that was cool.thanks for all these posts.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

walks with a gi said:


> Come on,,, post up!!:shade:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Check page 4. :teeth:


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

walks with a gi said:


> I'll give it a year and you'll have one of these too


The first used leftie has my name on it..........:heh:.


----------



## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

walks with a gi said:


> .....six layer carbon core, S glass and aluminum laminates,,, Hoyt's got nothin' on these:shade:


I'll never claim to be an expert on limbs, I just saw where some guy called them great and I was pretty certain they have never been used in the past so I thought I would point that out. A lot of guys get hyped up about stuff before it is even produced, I'm guilty of it from time to time too. I just think limbs are a tough call, only time will tell if they are worth a hoot.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

panther2307 said:


> if you're serious i'd like to see it at a 3d shoot sometime.either shade mountain,buffalo valley sportsmen club or mid-penn.



He's serious. I'll have one as well (undecided which) and we shoot together a bunch. We'll have to come meet ya.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

07/08 Hardwoods Gray Tribute for sale. 60lbs with black cams for sale.  Pm me....


----------



## 2 blue ducks (Sep 9, 2006)

Is that funky axle Bowtechs answer to the Mathews double hump cam thingy?


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

frankchugga said:


> The first used leftie has my name on it..........:heh:.


bowtechben is a lefty, keep track of him next year. lol


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

2 blue ducks said:


> Is that funky axle Bowtechs answer to the Mathews double hump cam thingy?


If you mean the mathews AVS....than
It should do about the same thing....so I would say yes.


----------



## camo-timber (Mar 22, 2003)

What is mass weight?


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*This is all I got...'til I get a bow in hand....*

All the pics.....more to come in a week or so.....thanks for checking them out.


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

119 lurkers.........:faint:
frankchugga, skurtz1313, joeyb, tek, mag1, sundevilfan, Justin82, ghost trail, Trevor02TA, msbowman, Greg / MO, rivertradersg, CamG, Running, shaner3d, Tfox1, Mr. Burns, smiff, lwilson, Cannonball08, timbowny, nostawyroc, DaRookie, orangeyousunny, TheCommander, catcat, SamTheMan, iswandy, jss204, lilcajun, saberhutch, jimmy4218, pTac, camo-timber, UltimtePredator, archeryxXx, bco99, bowman1964, egin44, Scottie, emtrchr, bl00dtrail, straubman, Bowfreak, rutfest, archer53, monk96t, maitland, ColoradoHunter, Archerynut008, mike hogan, TX Rattlesnake, BriceJ MI, bcycle, Livetohunt, Twitch, Blue Tick, mrbowtech, timmothy, cgchris99, alext, bowdude, 2 blue ducks, ROGUE73, Panzer 4, superslamsam, frankensteel, BowHntnWV, Rooster Cogburn, bowtechbenPA, tecshooter, eflanders, LTBowhunter, tewks, a1shooter, khoyt, csc, gameday, DeepFried, jpm_mq2, MadCity Hoosier, dwallis_86, paradis1142, Catsalot, Switchbacker, Snowking, beast, rgardner, MightyElkHntr, [email protected], Wi hunter, Pearson Guy, bowtechhunter64, Str8 Shooter, mychalstitts, jrmsoccer32, Mtn. Runner, PSE_Xforce352, wgonfan, GaryZ, elmoore, Refuze2falo, willijf1, cpprhd1, HVAC, stillern, Ginge


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

camo-timber said:


> What is mass weight?


I think the youtube vids say 4.1 for 350 and 3.9 for 340...i think.


----------



## camo-timber (Mar 22, 2003)

Awesome, thanks for quick response:teeth:


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

camo-timber said:


> What is mass weight?


The amount of time one spends to get into a church service?..............


----------



## Tfox1 (Dec 11, 2008)

frankchugga said:


> The amount of time one spends to get into a church service?..............


That's just wrong.


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

Tfox1 said:


> That's just wrong.


:sorry:............


----------



## Ben/PA (Feb 26, 2008)

frankchugga said:


> The first used leftie has my name on it..........:heh:.


It sounds like mine won't be sold for a while, but I will keep ya mind. If the price tag is what it is, I may need to unload an Air Raid. How's that hit ya?


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

bowtechbenPA said:


> It sounds like mine won't be sold for a while, but I will keep ya mind. If the price tag is what it is, I may need to unload an Air Raid. How's that hit ya?


Rumor has it you consider 1 week "awhile"..........:chortle:.


----------



## 2 blue ducks (Sep 9, 2006)

poole said:


> If you mean the mathews AVS....than
> It should do about the same thing....so I would say yes.


Yeah AVS didnt know what it was called so not really that inovated if its its kinda sorta copy


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

2 blue ducks said:


> Yeah AVS didnt know what it was called so not really that inovated if its its kinda sorta copy


The end result is similar from what I see, but the way that it gets there is completely different.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

*mass weight*

mass weight from youtube vid


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Poorguy said:


> Check page 4. :teeth:



Ahhh, I see it now! Between the popcorn and the peein' I missed it:embara:


----------



## Ben/PA (Feb 26, 2008)

frankchugga said:


> Rumor has it you consider 1 week "awhile"..........:chortle:.


You can only hope.:shade:


----------



## archeryxXx (May 24, 2007)

2 blue ducks said:


> Yeah AVS didnt know what it was called so not really that inovated if its its kinda sorta copy


you dont even know what its called ...so I know you dont know how it works
they are NOT the same..


----------



## BOWTECH-PS (Dec 15, 2008)

*I dare you.*



NJ-ELITE said:


> just wait when the teath where down on the axle your cam will be slipping, there will be problemes with thise bow i can see it now


I dare you to shoot this bow and give your honest opinion on AT. By the way this bow has been tested over 150,000 shots with no failures! So if it blows up a gear on shot 151,000 it should be covered under your BT lifetime warranty.


----------



## Cougarsquatch (Oct 23, 2009)

Thanks, now I have to get one


----------



## monster69 (Aug 7, 2009)

*The Destroyer*

Looks like another shot in the dark, by a company that is still trying to get it right.:ukey: What the hell was wrong with last years models and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that?:darkbeer:


----------



## shootingzeros (Jul 19, 2008)

Gorgeous bow for sure!! I just wish they would make this bow in a 37" ATA or a 36" would be ok!! I'm done with short AtA bows, I'm shooting a Monster! and I love it don't get me wrong!! But I shoot the Drenalin LD, Katera XL better, So I would like to see bow companies putting out some longer ata bows with some speed!! something 34+ I'm a 30" drawer so I like them long, and the only two bows out there that even come close IMO are The Alphaburner 34" 

Strothers Archery
A-A 36 3/8"
Brace 7 3/8"
Mass 4.3#
Draw L 27.5-31.5"
Draw W 40-100#
IBO 332-340 fps @ 70# 30"


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

BOWTECH-PS said:


> I dare you to shoot this bow and give your honest opinion on AT. By the way this bow has been tested over 150,000 shots with no failures! So if it blows up a gear on shot 151,000 it should be covered under your BT lifetime warranty.


I think there is a misconception about the "gears". Somebody correct me if Im wrong, but these are not "gears" like people are thinking. They are not engaging and disengaging and they are not turning like gears in a watch. They are just keyed together, like sticking an allen wrench in an allen screw. Not sure if I explained that right...little help from you machinist people....


----------



## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

MOC said:


> Right.


try looking at all the head to head bow comparisons and you will see a center pivot was quieter every year some by far.
But we know you know that already you just don't want to believe it, and probably never shot one. I had a guardian and every top model from almost all manufacturers and NONE are as quiet except maybe another center pivot


----------



## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

I love the looks of them but man $949.00 :mg:, kind of makes the PSE AXE 6 at $749.00 a little more inviting. I am going to have to think hard on this, but then again, I am left handed so I have a while to mull it over.:sad:

FF


----------



## arrowslinger#1 (Jul 6, 2006)

looks like..... a bad idea


----------



## monster69 (Aug 7, 2009)

arrowslinger#1 said:


> looks like..... a bad idea


Looks like amateur hour has just begun.:darkbeer:


----------



## Rick James (Oct 7, 2004)

poole said:


> I think there is a misconception about the "gears". Somebody correct me if Im wrong, but these are not "gears" like people are thinking. They are not engaging and disengaging and they are not turning like gears in a watch. They are just keyed together, like sticking an allen wrench in an allen screw. Not sure if I explained that right...little help from you machinist people....


That is correct, essentially making the lobe on the end of the axle turn at the same rate as the cam itself, so that you can slave the other cam to the same rotation. It's really no different than a cable peg on the cam in how it ties to the lower cam, except that it's extended to the outside of the limb instead. 

It's really the best cabling system I've seen personally, it gives you the ability to fine tune for cam lean/limb twist just like a dual cam, yet also slaves the cams together just like a traditional Binary™ synchronized dual cam system.

:wink:

Can't wait to see more from this bow. I'll have one this year, that's for sure.


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

monster69 said:


> Looks like another shot in the dark, by a company that is still trying to get it right.:ukey: What the hell was wrong with last years models and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that?:darkbeer:


Start de-thawing that crow......


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

monster69 said:


> Looks like amateur hour has just begun.:darkbeer:


Whys that? You gettin ready to shoot your Monster???


----------



## archeryxXx (May 24, 2007)

monster69 said:


> Looks like another shot in the dark, by a company that is still trying to get it right.:ukey: What the hell was wrong with last years models and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that?:darkbeer:


same bow and same bow and SAME bow..oh wait...you werent talking about Mathews...opps sorry....lol


----------



## monster69 (Aug 7, 2009)

DeepFried said:


> Start de-thawing that crow......


HUH. I like Oreos


----------



## monster69 (Aug 7, 2009)

archeryxXx said:


> same bow and same bow and SAME bow..oh wait...you werent talking about Mathews...opps sorry....lol


Sucks when you do it right the first time?????????


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

archeryxXx said:


> same bow and same bow and SAME bow..oh wait...you werent talking about Mathews...opps sorry....lol


:lol3: My thoughts exactly...


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

Rick James said:


> That is correct, essentially making the lobe on the end of the axle turn at the same rate as the cam itself, so that you can slave the other cam to the same rotation. It's really no different than a cable peg on the cam in how it ties to the lower cam, except that it's extended to the outside of the limb instead.
> 
> It's really the best cabling system I've seen personally, it gives you the ability to fine tune for cam lean/limb twist just like a dual cam, yet also slaves the cams together just like a traditional Binary™ synchronized dual cam system.
> 
> ...


So therefore there is no possibility of any wearing of the "teeth" or "gears" as they have been referred to.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

archeryxXx said:


> same bow and same bow and SAME bow..oh wait...you werent talking about Mathews...opps sorry....lol


:set1_applaud::lol3::icon_1_lol:


----------



## Rick James (Oct 7, 2004)

poole said:


> So therefore there is no possibility of any wearing of the "teeth" or "gears" as they have been referred to.


:darkbeer:


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

ROGUE73 said:


> Here it is....Destroyer 2010....Long Pocket Design...Hard Core Limbs....Flx-Guard cable containment system.....Binary Overdrive system....




This will be a very quiet bow also. Look at the limb pivot point that looks to be 1/3 the way up the limb and near the midpoint of the working section of the limb:shade:

woops, pic on page 4...


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

Ive been on this thread for around 3 hours......


----------



## 1mitch4 (Aug 30, 2005)

Looks awesome to me. A lot of thinking and engineering involved. I'll have to try one out! :thumbs_up


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

My post count is higher...


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Rick James
> That is correct, essentially making the lobe on the end of the axle turn at the same rate as the cam itself, so that you can slave the other cam to the same rotation. It's really no different than a cable peg on the cam in how it ties to the lower cam, except that it's extended to the outside of the limb instead.
> 
> ...



Exactly. Quoting myself from an earlier thread today:



> Also, I wanted to set the record straight on the axle/gear thing I have seen mentioned here... They aren't gears. It is a shape that looks like a gear that presses into the cam so the axle turns when the cam turns; there are no moving parts like a gearbox or anything.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

Greg / MO said:


> Exactly. Quoting myself from an earlier thread today Also, I wanted to set the record straight on the axle/gear thing I have seen mentioned here... They aren't gears. It is a shape that looks like a gear that presses into the cam so the axle turns when the cam turns; there are no moving parts like a gearbox or anything.:


Really no more moving parts than a regular axle with 2 bearings once you understand whats going on. That kills some of the comments I have read regarding too many moving parts.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

poole said:


> I think there is a misconception about the "gears". Somebody correct me if Im wrong, but these are not "gears" like people are thinking. They are not engaging and disengaging and they are not turning like gears in a watch. They are just keyed together, like sticking an allen wrench in an allen screw. Not sure if I explained that right...little help from you machinist people....


 I'm not sure but is this the first bow that doesn't have bearings in the cams? Has anyone else put the bearings in the limbs before?


----------



## fletched (May 10, 2006)

poole said:


> So therefore there is no possibility of any wearing of the "teeth" or "gears" as they have been referred to.


They are spines. The cams splines will match up with the axles spline to lock it together for no movement. The bearing will wear faster than the spline. It is like putting a square shaft inside a square hole that fit tightly together. Thats how splines work. You driveshaft and transmission in you vehicle have them. Splines are a very good way to connect to surfaces together. It has been proven and used for years. Just because it is newly applied to archery doesn't make it experimental.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

fletched said:


> They are spines. The cams splines will match up with the axles spline to lock it together for no movement. The bearing will wear faster than the spline. It is like putting a square shaft inside a square hole that fit tightly together. Thats how splines work. You driveshaft and transmission in you vehicle have them. Splines are a very good way to connect to surfaces together. It has been proven and used for years. Just because it is newly applied to archery doesn't make it experimental.


Thats what I was thinking...just could not put it into words. Thanks!


----------



## FishingBen (Oct 12, 2009)

wdriver said:


> Well, I guess there's next year.....


yup the long ATA shooter guys always have to wait on the speed freaks to get there jones first. ya'll go ahead. I'll be the guy that waited on the longer ATA with all the same bling hitting x's in my sleep.:shade:

Love the new bow though. Just can wait for a full size version.

I can't help it I was born this big. Its just genetics.


----------



## OR Archer1 (Nov 8, 2007)

OK it's pretty common knowledge that a roller guard induces torque so how in the heck is this flexing roller guard not going to compound the problem even more?


----------



## AR&BOW (May 24, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow.....


Really, doesn't look like a center pivot bow just and little longer than standard limb pocket like Hoyt started to use this past year.


----------



## gdzfast12 (Nov 18, 2008)

I really think this bow will shoot great.. but im gonna say tis one more time and im gonna keep **my opinion** to myself on the destroyer till I get one i my hand and shoot it. So im gonna say this ONE last time. and people say the carbon matrix is ugly... That thing is uglier than the over weight pimpled up low self esteem girl that always is best friends with the hottest chick at the bar that given night. The one that is always WAYYY more into you than said hot chick. But much like miss ugly betty beauty is only skin deep its all about what she looks like on the inside not the outside. Im sure she shoots great and im very impressed with the new technology....


but she still aint gettin no love from me. lol


----------



## archeryxXx (May 24, 2007)

OR Archer1 said:


> OK it's pretty common knowledge that a roller guard induces torque so how in the heck is this flexing roller guard not going to compound the problem even more?


Why dont you drive over there and shot it, and then tell us. I going down mon. to shoot it.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*correction: NOT a Center Pivot bow....*



AR&BOW said:


> Really, doesn't look like a center pivot bow just and little longer than standard limb pocket like Hoyt started to use this past year.


I corrected my mistake in a later post.

The Destroyer is NOT a Center Pivot bow.

The limb pocket is termed: "Long Pocket".

NOT Center Pivot.

Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## OR Archer1 (Nov 8, 2007)

archeryxXx said:


> Why dont you drive over there and shot it, and then tell us. I going down mon. to shoot it.


Yeah the boss would just love that!!


----------



## hunt1000 (Jan 4, 2008)

I bet xxx is a Bowtech dealer and he will be able to share his view on the new bow after he shoots it.


----------



## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

Has anyone shot this animal yet? What do you think if it?


----------



## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

2 blue ducks said:


> Yeah AVS didnt know what it was called so not really that inovated if its its kinda sorta copy


no, it wasnt. this IS!


----------



## jrip (May 19, 2008)

I know many wont like to hear this but.....armature hour has been over since 2007.....either take the lead....or take your seat in the back of the little yellow bus.........one guess as to who is still driving the bus......in case you didnt know....his name is PETE....and most definitely not MATT!!!!!!! :darkbeer: drink up or whine because what you are drinking is yellow.........


----------



## 188 Inches (Oct 9, 2007)

ROGUE73 said:


> Here it is....Destroyer 2010....Long Pocket Design...Hard Core Limbs....Flx-Guard cable containment system.....Binary Overdrive system....



BEAUTIFUL bow, Stunning.


----------



## Drifter0678 (Oct 2, 2009)

Damn, this is a hatin place isn't it? Geeezzz.... Shoot what ya like and enjoy the fact you can do it... I have a buddy with no arm that wants to shoot a bow so bad he can't stand it and we've tried to fab things up, but nothing is consistant...


----------



## jrip (May 19, 2008)

188 Inches said:


> BEAUTIFUL bow, Stunning.



To this I MUST add..that every string that sends a stick towards it quarry is beautiful!!!!!


----------



## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

*Marketing Gimmick*



DeepFried said:


> What is the point of the design?????


I would say that, like the Mathews dual cam system, it falls into either Patent Circumvention or marketing Gimmitry. A different way of slaving the two cams together, thereby having Their own binary system that can be patented by them and marketed as "SOMETHING NEW" or an "Archery Innovation". I think most will see it as the Marketing gimmick it is. Atleast the Mathews system looks nice and works directly off the cam without getting rediculous. Mathews just chose to simply call theirs a Dual Cam System. If you want a binary cam bow, how could you possibly choose this new Bowtech system over the NBA/Elite system or the Darton & pre-2010 Bowtech Binary systems? Gimmicks sometime sell bows, but sometime go too far and go nowhere. Remember the Bear Bow that had the handle that moved and put a load on the cables just as the cams rolled over to the let-off position then locked in place at full draw? You would effectively draw 60, but when you shot or let the bow back down, it would be applying much more than 60 lbs of weight at the bow string. That bow went nowhere even though it was a truly unique design(although it was heavy as crap) . I think this new Bowtech System will be sold almost exclusively to Bowtech Fanboys, not to be confused with Bowtech Fans. I think it is safe to say that it will not become an industry standard!

That is my opinion....if I am intitled to one here.


----------



## archeryxXx (May 24, 2007)

OR Archer1 said:


> Yeah the boss would just love that!!


well you need to know how they shoot..I will go shoot the new Mathews


----------



## Mikegb88 (Aug 17, 2007)

Dewboy said:


> I would say that, like the Mathews dual cam system, it falls into either Patent Circumvention or marketing Gimmitry. A different way of slaving the two cams together, thereby having Their own binary system that can be patented by them and marketed as "SOMETHING NEW" or an "Archery Innovation". I think most will see it as the Marketing gimmick it is. Atleast the Mathews system looks nice and works directly off the cam without getting rediculous. Mathews just chose to simply call theirs a Dual Cam System. If you want a binary cam bow, how could you possibly choose this new Bowtech system over the NBA/Elite system or the Darton & pre-2010 Bowtech Binary systems? Gimmicks sometime sell bows, but sometime go too far and go nowhere. Remember the Bear Bow that had the handle that moved and put a load on the cables just as the cams rolled over to the let-off position then locked in place at full draw? You would effectively draw 60, but when you shot or let the bow back down, it would be applying much more than 60 lbs of weight at the bow string. That bow went nowhere even though it was a truly unique design(although it was heavy as crap) . I think this new Bowtech System will be sold almost exclusively to Bowtech Fanboys, not to be confused with Bowtech Fans. I think it is safe to say that it will not become an industry standard!
> 
> That is my opinion....if I am intitled to one here.


I don't care what you call the technology behind it, but if it delivers, that what counts. If it draws super smooth like it claims, and still spits out those speeds,is quiet, shock free, tunes good, and has super strong laminated limbs, etc etc, whats not to like.


----------



## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

SWEET!!! Something new to break on the 10 bowtechs!!!=====>Adjust for sarcasm HEHE


----------



## champus (May 28, 2006)

*congrasts*

Congrats, another clever solution not to pay royialties to Rex Darlington.


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

frankchugga said:


> The first used leftie has my name on it..........:heh:.


Not if I see it first.


----------



## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

Dewboy said:


> I would say that, like the Mathews dual cam system, it falls into either Patent Circumvention or marketing Gimmitry. A different way of slaving the two cams together, thereby having Their own binary system that can be patented by them and marketed as "SOMETHING NEW" or an "Archery Innovation". I think most will see it as the Marketing gimmick it is. Atleast the Mathews system looks nice and works directly off the cam without getting rediculous. Mathews just chose to simply call theirs a Dual Cam System. If you want a binary cam bow, how could you possibly choose this new Bowtech system over the NBA/Elite system or the Darton & pre-2010 Bowtech Binary systems? Gimmicks sometime sell bows, but sometime go too far and go nowhere. Remember the Bear Bow that had the handle that moved and put a load on the cables just as the cams rolled over to the let-off position then locked in place at full draw? You would effectively draw 60, but when you shot or let the bow back down, it would be applying much more than 60 lbs of weight at the bow string. That bow went nowhere even though it was a truly unique design(although it was heavy as crap) . I think this new Bowtech System will be sold almost exclusively to Bowtech Fanboys, not to be confused with Bowtech Fans. I think it is safe to say that it will not become an industry standard!
> 
> That is my opinion....if I am intitled to one here.


+1 here well said. The Destroyer probably will be a nice bow to shoot but saying these cams are binary is deceptive. Linked not synched.


----------



## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

If you locked the bottom cam in place (bottom axle stationary), the top cam would still rotate and function as if it was a true two cam bow. The movement of that axle has zero mechanical advantage over the opposing cam. On a true Binary cam if you lock the bottom cam the top is automatically locked as it's slaved. Not true of this system as it operates more like a true two cam. Again, linked but not synched. Great looking bow though, just don't care for a deceptive marketing campaign.


----------



## panther2307 (Feb 12, 2008)

Poorguy said:


> He's serious. I'll have one as well (undecided which) and we shoot together a bunch. We'll have to come meet ya.


sounds good


----------



## Limey (May 6, 2005)

Laminated limbs is a good step.

How much extra force is put on the limbs by the additional weight of the geared axles and attached axle carrier? This could cause extra stress in the limbs as if it is carrying carrying weight at the point of maximum leverage (limb tips) then the limbs will have to absorb this when the bow is shot.

I hope for Bowtech that their R&D department have got it right this time as if flex cable guards start failing or the new limbs start spliting then I can see a dark future for them.

The bows look good and the specs are good so they will sell.


----------



## oneshot (Nov 29, 2002)

*11 hrs 4mins. over 9500 hits*

Great Job! R&D! You guys got alot of the archers in country, trying to get a piece of the State of Art Destroyer! With this new concept and the bow shoots so smooth -the 400 fps ins't that far away! in the future. You can store alot of energy in this bow.


----------



## reckless (Jul 8, 2006)

FishingBen said:


> yup the long ATA shooter guys always have to wait on the speed freaks to get there jones first. ya'll go ahead. I'll be the guy that waited on the longer ATA with all the same bling hitting x's in my sleep.:shade:
> 
> Love the new bow though. Just can wait for a full size version.
> 
> I can't help it I was born this big. Its just genetics.


I want a one in target size as well. the 09 brigader was a bit of a lemon so can i have this bow in 40 inch axel to axel????????????
or just take all them good bits and throw them a sentinal
I love my 08 commanders and my connies but i want some new toys.


----------



## Ben/PA (Feb 26, 2008)

monster69 said:


> Looks like another shot in the dark, by a company that is still trying to get it right.:ukey: What the hell was wrong with last years models and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that?:darkbeer:


From what I have seen from Bowtech, the 06 was a great year, 2007 brought CP to light, 2008 brought speed and sound improvements, and 2009 refined CP, hello have you shot the Admiral? The last thing I would be expecting from Bowtech would be a step backwards. Enjoy your Solocam................... Er...Mathews. :darkbeer:


----------



## DMAX-HD (Jan 30, 2005)

Dewboy said:


> I would say that, like the Mathews dual cam system, it falls into either Patent Circumvention or marketing Gimmitry. A different way of slaving the two cams together, thereby having Their own binary system that can be patented by them and marketed as "SOMETHING NEW" or an "Archery Innovation". I think most will see it as the Marketing gimmick it is. Atleast the Mathews system looks nice and works directly off the cam without getting rediculous. Mathews just chose to simply call theirs a Dual Cam System. If you want a binary cam bow, how could you possibly choose this new Bowtech system over the NBA/Elite system or the Darton & pre-2010 Bowtech Binary systems? Gimmicks sometime sell bows, but sometime go too far and go nowhere. Remember the Bear Bow that had the handle that moved and put a load on the cables just as the cams rolled over to the let-off position then locked in place at full draw? You would effectively draw 60, but when you shot or let the bow back down, it would be applying much more than 60 lbs of weight at the bow string. That bow went nowhere even though it was a truly unique design(although it was heavy as crap) . I think this new Bowtech System will be sold almost exclusively to Bowtech Fanboys, not to be confused with Bowtech Fans. I think it is safe to say that it will not become an industry standard!
> 
> That is my opinion....if I am intitled to one here.


A Mathews guy calling a Bowtech 'gimmicky'? That the pot calling the kettle black. How many years has Mathews sold their bows with those stupid weighted copper Harmonic dampener deals in their bows. How come it is that most other bows can shoot just as shock free without'em? GIMMICK! GIMMICK!


----------



## slink (Jan 2, 2004)

I LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!................I THINK?
Time will tell If it works out , but they are nice looking bows.


Slink


----------



## pa.hunter (Jan 3, 2008)

*looks like a nice rig*

wonder if this could be better than my tribute ? time will tell , have not found a bow yet to replace it :darkbeer:


----------



## JD X729 (Apr 12, 2009)

tmoran said:


> If you locked the bottom cam in place (bottom axle stationary), the top cam would still rotate and function as if it was a true two cam bow. The movement of that axle has zero mechanical advantage over the opposing cam. On a true Binary cam if you lock the bottom cam the top is automatically locked as it's slaved. Not true of this system as it operates more like a true two cam. Again, linked but not synched. Great looking bow though, just don't care for a deceptive marketing campaign.


The statement I highlighted is NOT true. How do I know? Well I tested it on my Admiral, which I am pretty sure has Binary cams. I backed the limbs down to prevent any possible damage. When I locked the bottom cam I was able to draw it without any problems, I did stop drawing after 10 inches of draw because one of the cables went limp and didn't want to wreck something. The limbs are not static and do flex which allows the unlocked cam to rotate. If limbs didn't flex then your statement would be true, but then the bow wouldn't draw with a cam locked or unlocked, heck it wouldn't do anything.


----------



## bullfisher (Apr 22, 2009)

Well I assume the archery world will take somthing away from this bow be it the axle, the flex guard, limb design, somthing will stick for a while. though i would kinda hand the camed axle partially to mathews the one on the bowtech is very slick, I mean just think about it, right at the moment your about to roll over the hardest part of a speed cam the "cammed" axle is rolliing over to soften it and then again to soften the shot. What a simple way of taming a speed bow. drawing some of todays speed bows is like wrestling a fat chick!!! This axle design will be used and improved over the years, mark my words.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 11, 2007)

It is said that this bow draws like a tribute with smooth cams, and with this speed, if this is fact i don't see how this could be called a gimmick, there is a reason why it is desinged this way.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 11, 2007)

Lets call it a modified binary then, who cares, if it works all is good.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Shinigami3 said:


> The core is the last place you want to use carbon- if that's true it's a waste.
> 
> Aluminum laminates? Oh, this WILL be a fun year.


Not true. It's been used a lot lately by traditional bowyers as a limb core to make a stronger, lighter, faster limb.


----------



## damnyankee (Oct 4, 2002)

Those risers look like Aliens delivered them:mg:


----------



## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

JD X729 said:


> The statement I highlighted is NOT true. How do I know? Well I tested it on my Admiral, which I am pretty sure has Binary cams. I backed the limbs down to prevent any possible damage. When I locked the bottom cam I was able to draw it without any problems, I did stop drawing after 10 inches of draw because one of the cables went limp and didn't want to wreck something. The limbs are not static and do flex which allows the unlocked cam to rotate. If limbs didn't flex then your statement would be true, but then the bow wouldn't draw with a cam locked or unlocked, heck it wouldn't do anything.



Dude you actually tried that. Dangerous. The cable that went limp is of the pay out track of the top cam. It would have kept going limp also. The fact that it went limp should tell you that they are in fact slaved. Point being as long as their is tension in your cables they at 100% slaved and linked. I made the statement to bring attention to this. A true binary rotates at the same rate as the opposite cam. The destroyer's cams can rotate independently unlike the Binary systems we know of to date that are slaved together.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Somewhere in another thread, Crackers stated it draw like a Tribby with smooth mods.


----------



## BDHUNTR (May 24, 2003)

Limey said:


> Laminated limbs is a good step.
> 
> How much extra force is put on the limbs by the additional weight of the geared axles and attached axle carrier? This could cause extra stress in the limbs as if it is carrying carrying weight at the point of maximum leverage (limb tips) then the limbs will have to absorb this when the bow is shot.
> 
> ...


That's the risk bowmakers assume by trying to one-up the competition every year. From comtemplating the design to the finished product in the marketplace in a year doesn't leave much time for testing and tweaking.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Shinigami3 View Post
> The core is the last place you want to use carbon- if that's true it's a waste.
> 
> ...





> Not true. It's been used a lot lately by traditional bowyers as a limb core to make a stronger, lighter, faster limb


Exactly, and it just goes to show how far haters will stretch to try to bash something they know nothing about. 



> Somewhere in another thread, Crackers stated it draw like a Tribby with smooth mods.


 That's what he heard. 

In reality from a friend of ours who has draw and shot it, it actually draws even better and I quote " It's like no bow you've ever shot". That smooth and that much speed. Unfortunate for Mr. Monster above, his beloved bow will sound like a tuning fork going off next to the Destroyer. ;-)


----------



## mdb128 (Aug 12, 2009)

bump


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

bullfisher said:


> Well I assume the archery world will take somthing away from this bow be it the axle, the flex guard, limb design, somthing will stick for a while. though i would kinda hand the camed axle partially to mathews the one on the bowtech is very slick, I mean just think about it, right at the moment your about to roll over the hardest part of a speed cam the "cammed" axle is rolliing over to soften it and then again to soften the shot. What a simple way of taming a speed bow. drawing some of todays speed bows is like wrestling a fat chick!!! This axle design will be used and improved over the years, mark my words.


Exactly. I hate to reiterate this but from what I understand, shooters will be amazed at this draw cycle and left wondering where the speed comes from but the speed and the smooth draw is definitely there. The combination of riser design, limb design, cam and "axles", it's promised to be the smoothest "speed" bow we've ever shot and couple that with minimal noise and vibration it's all win, win. That speaks volumes.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Dewboy said:


> I would say that, like the Mathews dual cam system, it falls into either Patent Circumvention or marketing Gimmitry. A different way of slaving the two cams together, thereby having Their own binary system that can be patented by them and marketed as "SOMETHING NEW" or an "Archery Innovation". I think most will see it as the Marketing gimmick it is. Atleast the Mathews system looks nice and works directly off the cam without getting rediculous. Mathews just chose to simply call theirs a Dual Cam System. If you want a binary cam bow, how could you possibly choose this new Bowtech system over the NBA/Elite system or the Darton & pre-2010 Bowtech Binary systems? Gimmicks sometime sell bows, but sometime go too far and go nowhere. Remember the Bear Bow that had the handle that moved and put a load on the cables just as the cams rolled over to the let-off position then locked in place at full draw? You would effectively draw 60, but when you shot or let the bow back down, it would be applying much more than 60 lbs of weight at the bow string. That bow went nowhere even though it was a truly unique design(although it was heavy as crap) . I think this new Bowtech System will be sold almost exclusively to Bowtech Fanboys, not to be confused with Bowtech Fans. I think it is safe to say that it will not become an industry standard!
> 
> That is my opinion....if I am intitled to one here.



You are entitled to your opinion as wrong as it may be. 

The "axle"/Cam system is not gimmicky. And if I may quote bullfisher again, 



> Well I assume the archery world will take somthing away from this bow be it the axle, the flex guard, limb design, somthing will stick for a while. though i would kinda hand the camed axle partially to mathews the one on the bowtech is very slick, I mean just think about it, right at the moment your about to roll over the hardest part of a speed cam the "cammed" axle is rolliing over to soften it and then again to soften the shot. What a simple way of taming a speed bow. drawing some of todays speed bows is like wrestling a fat chick!!! This axle design will be used and improved over the years, mark my words.


There is nothing gimmicky about that. There are already Hoyt shooters in this thread ready to jump ship without even shooting it. I think there will be a lot of xxx fanboys shooting a new Bowtech in 2010. :shade:


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

ROGUE73 said:


> $949.00 suggested retail price.


GULP!!:mg::mg:


----------



## RugerRedhawk (Oct 15, 2008)

trlcavscout said:


> "Suggested retail $949.00"
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice and I bet it shoots good, but theres no way I am dropping a G on it after the upgrade to all black.


Wait a year, buy it used, save a bunch of $$$.


----------



## Perceval (Nov 25, 2008)

ChappyHOYT said:


> Not true. It's been used a lot lately by traditional bowyers as a limb core to make a stronger, lighter, faster limb.


i second that + high end limbs for olympic recurve + alum laminates is a good choice for flex apllications ( see glare material used now in aviation industry , seefab all alum bows and of course alum arrows ) .........some folks here have a limited bow culture IMHO


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

monster69 said:


> Looks like another shot in the dark, by a company that is still trying to get it right.:ukey: What the hell was wrong with last years models and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that?:darkbeer:


That's a little harsh, don't you think? After all, it seems all the companies always bring out new models every year, just like the car companies...or at least like the car companies used to do.
Seems to me Mathews introduces new models each year too.


----------



## Arrowflngr (Apr 17, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> The Destroyer is a CENTER PIVOT bow.....


looks more like a alphamax:mg:


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

monster69 said:


> Looks like another shot in the dark, by a company that is still trying to get it right.:ukey: What the hell was wrong with last years models and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that?:darkbeer:


You mean the company that pounded your bow of choice (Mathews) in the AT bow evaluation in 06 (tribute - 1st vs switchback - 5th) and 07 (guardian - 1st vs drenalin 4th). Is that the company you're referring to...........


----------



## x-ring-1 (Oct 31, 2002)

Has any one heard about what target colors will be there for 2010?


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

mdewitt71 said:


> Not if I see it first.


Flip ya for it.................heads I win, tails you lose...........


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Arrowflngr said:


> looks more like a alphamax:mg:


You mean the AM trying to look like a CP and then when Bowtech mimics their own CP's that it's suppose to look like a AM. :shade:


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

x-ring-1 said:


> Has any one heard about what target colors will be there for 2010?



Black.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Poorguy said:


> You mean the AM trying to look like a CP and then when Bowtech mimics their own CP's that it's suppose to look like a AM. :shade:


I think he was just saying it's not a centerpivot and that it looks more like the longer limbpockets like Hoyt used last year.


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

DMAX-HD said:


> A Mathews guy calling a Bowtech 'gimmicky'? That the pot calling the kettle black. How many years has Mathews sold their bows with those stupid weighted copper Harmonic dampener deals in their bows. How come it is that most other bows can shoot just as shock free without'em? GIMMICK! GIMMICK!


That left a mark...........:zip:.


----------



## Mad-Shooter (Mar 19, 2007)

Poorguy said:


> Black.


Will buying in all Black, cost extra like in the past?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2007)

hope you all enjoyed the post last nite. the bow is way ahead of its time. the hunter will love this. fast smooth and very shootable .you boys that are bad mouthing this bow should shoot it !


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Mad-Shooter said:


> Will buying in all Black, cost extra like in the past?


I'll have to check to see if there is an upcharge. Seeing's that's the two choices, maybe not but that's not a quote.


----------



## BuckeyeRed (Sep 7, 2006)

Poorguy said:


> From first hand experience, this was told to me from a friend who has several CP bows,
> 
> "This bow is going to be like no bow you've ever shot before". And I trust the guys statement as he's owned and shot a ton of bows.
> 
> :darkbeer:


Not to be a debbie downer but they said that about the Air Raid..


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

Dewboy said:


> I would say that, like the Mathews dual cam system, it falls into either Patent Circumvention or marketing Gimmitry. A different way of slaving the two cams together, thereby having Their own binary system that can be patented by them and marketed as "SOMETHING NEW" or an "Archery Innovation". I think most will see it as the Marketing gimmick it is. Atleast the Mathews system looks nice and works directly off the cam without getting rediculous. Mathews just chose to simply call theirs a Dual Cam System. If you want a binary cam bow, how could you possibly choose this new Bowtech system over the NBA/Elite system or the Darton & pre-2010 Bowtech Binary systems? Gimmicks sometime sell bows, but sometime go too far and go nowhere. Remember the Bear Bow that had the handle that moved and put a load on the cables just as the cams rolled over to the let-off position then locked in place at full draw? You would effectively draw 60, but when you shot or let the bow back down, it would be applying much more than 60 lbs of weight at the bow string. That bow went nowhere even though it was a truly unique design(although it was heavy as crap) . I think this new Bowtech System will be sold almost exclusively to Bowtech Fanboys, not to be confused with Bowtech Fans. I think it is safe to say that it will not become an industry standard!
> 
> That is my opinion....if I am intitled to one here.


Here is my opinion for what its worth.......

A little disclosure first though: I dont care how they came up with the idea...but Im my opinion it will accomplish something similar to the AVS on the monster. It will contribute to a smoother drawing speedbow and increase the potential letoff. I am no fanboy of any one company, but I think that the AVS system on my xlr8 demonstrates this well, which is the same thing Matt Mcpherson said it would do.

I think bowtechs design will do the same...contribute to a smoother drawing speed bow and increase the potential letoff.

Before people start saying they copied Mathews.....Im pretty sure your not driving the "original" first car, the clothes you are wearing were probably not the first in production, they chair you are sitting in is probably a copy of some other chair, the computer your using is not likely the first computer.....so who cares?

If the bow shoots good I could care less who makes it, where they got the idea from and who does or does not get royalties. Bow companies today are all pushing each other to strive for better performance with new technology. 

Never understood the "fanboy" thing.

Just my .02.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

BuckeyeRed said:


> Not to be a debbie downer but they said that about the Air Raid..


To be honest...we are really just still speculating right now....just like they did with the air raid. Time will tell. For now...it looks promising to me. Ill let you know in a year.


----------



## HammyAbeer (Jul 15, 2008)

Im just wondering how these will tune as compared to last years enigmas.


----------



## Bowup882 (Feb 11, 2007)

*$949????*

Where did that come from?? My Rep told me yesterday, $899.00. $50 for all the new technology. That's a steal. I've heard of some of the "M" boys selling the Monster for $950, so what.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

BuckeyeRed said:


> Not to be a debbie downer but they said that about the Air Raid..



LOL, well Debbie,  I never heard that about the Air Raid and particularly not from the guy making this statement. We'll see and I think we won't be disappointed. A smooth speed bow, great valley, no hump, solid wall and shockfree? It's all good. :shade:


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Bowup882 said:


> Where did that come from?? My Rep told me yesterday, $899.00. $50 for all the new technology. That's a steal. I've heard of some of the "M" boys selling the Monster for $950, so what.


$949 is MSRP not necessarily what your dealer will be selling it for.


----------



## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

*Your experiment proved nothing other than your lack of understanding of basic physics*



JD X729 said:


> The statement I highlighted is NOT true. How do I know? Well I tested it on my Admiral, which I am pretty sure has Binary cams. I backed the limbs down to prevent any possible damage. When I locked the bottom cam I was able to draw it without any problems, I did stop drawing after 10 inches of draw because one of the cables went limp and didn't want to wreck something. The limbs are not static and do flex which allows the unlocked cam to rotate. If limbs didn't flex then your statement would be true, but then the bow wouldn't draw with a cam locked or unlocked, heck it wouldn't do anything.


The cams are slaved through equalization of the forces on the cables, hence the name *Equalizer Cams*. Before one cam can move more than the other, the other cam takes up the cable and equalizes the tension. All you managed to do was to Physically Prevent a cam from reacting in order to equalize the system, hence one of the cables lost tension. You were able to keep drawing the bow because the limbs were still free to move, therefore, the free cam was still able to spool in the string and the cable on the take-up side. The cable that the fixed cam normally spools in went limp because it wasn't being taken up by that cam.

You are just lucky the limp cable didn't come off and damage your bow or hurt yourself in the process. Sorry, but your experiment proved nothing other than your lack of understanding of basic physics.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

*I think Im wrong*

I think Im wrong about my guess as to how this cam system works.

I just hung my xlr8 up on the draw board and drew it from different nocking points. I did not put a micrometer on it, but I could not visabley see the cam timing change (in reference to modules) no matter where I pulled it back from. So that means this "overdrive binary" should act the same and be more of a "slaved" system than I thought...wich will only make it that much better.


----------



## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

*Glad you asked!*



Mikegb88 said:


> I don't care what you call the technology behind it, but if it delivers, that what counts. If it draws super smooth like it claims, and still spits out those speeds,is quiet, shock free, tunes good, and has super strong laminated limbs, etc etc, *whats not to like*.


Glad you asked! *Answer:* Having big honkin' Pillow block mounted to the top of each limb! Pillow blocks have their place on farm implements and industrial equipment, but I don't want them on my bow limbs! That is what I don't like. 

There is also the Extra movig parts! That is not to like. The simplest design that accomplishes the desired result is ALWAYS BEST. This new Bowtech design is BACKWARDS ENGINEERING away from the simplest design... That is NOT to like.


----------



## Arrowflngr (Apr 17, 2009)

Poorguy said:


> You mean the AM trying to look like a CP and then when Bowtech mimics their own CP's that it's suppose to look like a AM. :shade:


No
In that the BT CPs were two separate limb pockets and the AM is a long one piece limb pocket, like the destroyer. I won't even touch the laminated limb subject.
Dont get your panties in a wad PRO staffer, the AM is a great bow to copy. As Im sure the destroyer will be, once they debug it.


----------



## FishingBen (Oct 12, 2009)

*Exactly!*



reckless said:


> I want a one in target size as well. the 09 brigader was a bit of a lemon so can i have this bow in 40 inch axel to axel????????????
> or just take all them good bits and throw them a sentinal
> I love my 08 commanders and my connies but i want some new toys.


Exactly! Thats what I'm saying!:bored:


----------



## Mossy517 (May 6, 2003)

Dewboy said:


> Glad you asked! *Answer:* Having big honkin' Pillow block mounted to the top of each limb! Pillow blocks have their place on farm implements and industrial equipment, but I don't want them on my bow limbs! That is what I don't like.
> 
> There is also the Extra movig parts! That is not to like. The simplest design that accomplishes the desired result is ALWAYS BEST. This new Bowtech design is BACKWARDS ENGINEERING away from the simplest design... That is NOT to like.




Where are all these EXTRA moving parts that you speak of? The bearings and the "axle" are the only addition along with the pillow block housings. Does the AVS not move seperate from the cam? The axle is the only thing that is moving that has not moved in the past.

And you say backwards engineering? Maybe you should look at archeryhistory.com and see all of the innovations on there that did not make it then, but are being perfected or built around today to make them better. Every bow company is re-visiting previous ideas. Why don't people see that?
We have much better machining technology today and well as technology in general. Look at the "axle" it looks like grey metal or powder metalurgy technology, if you dont think that it is strong enough and won't last don't drive your car cause its all through them as well.

I am not a fan boy, I shoot what I like. I do like the looks and the sounds of the talk about this bow. I get tired of the BS!


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

I don't think a bow needs to be a Center Pivot to be quiet. A longer limb pocket with the ability to allow the limb to flex between the limb pivot and the limb bolt will store energy and dampen limb rebound in much the same way, only a percentage less than a CP. The big advantage of a CP is that it moves the geometry towards that of a deflex riser.


----------



## X-SHOOTER (Feb 9, 2005)

Dewboy said:


> Glad you asked! *Answer:* Having big honkin' Pillow block mounted to the top of each limb! Pillow blocks have their place on farm implements and industrial equipment, but I don't want them on my bow limbs! That is what I don't like.
> 
> There is also the Extra movig parts! That is not to like. The simplest design that accomplishes the desired result is ALWAYS BEST. This new Bowtech design is BACKWARDS ENGINEERING away from the simplest design... That is NOT to like.


Not necessarily true on the extra parts, I mean I can have my Hemi powered Dodge Ram or I can have an old Model T Ford that has less parts but barely has enough power to drive over an ant hill, I will take the Hemi anyday! As technology changes and improves things get a bit more complex but they get better and more efficient!


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Binary.....*



tmoran said:


> If you locked the bottom cam in place (bottom axle stationary), the top cam would still rotate and function as if it was a true two cam bow. The movement of that axle has zero mechanical advantage over the opposing cam. On a true Binary cam if you lock the bottom cam the top is automatically locked as it's slaved. Not true of this system as it operates more like a true two cam. Again, linked but not synched. Great looking bow though, just don't care for a deceptive marketing campaign.



To Reiterate....(for those of you who don't get it):

"I'm seeing people saying that the Destroyer isn't a Binary. The reason it IS a binary is that the eccentric cam axle and the letout groove perform the same function: to feed cable to the opposite cam in letoff."


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Dewboy said:


> Glad you asked! *Answer:* Having big honkin' Pillow block mounted to the top of each limb! Pillow blocks have their place on farm implements and industrial equipment, but I don't want them on my bow limbs! That is what I don't like.
> 
> There is also the Extra movig parts! That is not to like. The simplest design that accomplishes the desired result is ALWAYS BEST. This new Bowtech design is BACKWARDS ENGINEERING away from the simplest design... That is NOT to like.



There shouldn't be any more weight bolted onto the limb tips than Mathews string suppressors,, and they are really not that effective as compared to the string stoppers we see today.

I'd rather see weighted technology that is advantageous on the limb tips than something that also adds weight to the limb tips, compromizes limb strength and is really not necessary.


----------



## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

*Where do you guys get this stuff?*



tmoran said:


> If you locked the bottom cam in place (bottom axle stationary), the top cam would still rotate and function as if it was a true two cam bow. The movement of that axle has zero mechanical advantage over the opposing cam. *On a true Binary cam if you lock the bottom cam the top is automatically locked as it's slaved*. Not true of this system as it operates more like a true two cam. Again, linked but not synched. Great looking bow though, just don't care for a deceptive marketing campaign.


This would only be true if you could add force by PUSHING AGAINST A ROPE! ALMOST all folks realize that you CAN"T PUSH A ROPE/String! Your ASSUMPTION above would only be true if the cables were replaced by some kind of solid linkage(rods)! Since the BASIC PHYSICS rule that you can NOT PUSH A ROPE is true, Your assertion is *false*. The top cam will NOT "LOCK" if you lock the bottom cam in place even on a Binary cam, more accurately called the *Equalizer Cam*!

Where do you guys get this stuff? Do you just run it through your head and see it happen with your immagination and decide if you can immagine it, then it must be true?


----------



## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

I'll shoot that one that looks like the Alien, I just won't pay for it


----------



## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> To Reiterate....(for those of you who don't get it):
> 
> I'm seeing people saying that the Destroyer isn't a Binary. The reason it IS a binary is that the eccentric cam axle and the letout groove perform the same function: to feed cable to the opposite cam in letoff.


i could be wrong but i was under the impression to what made a "binary" a "binary" was that it was slaved from cam to cam with nothing attached to limbs or axles? if i am seeing it right, this is connected to axles on outside of limbs then goes to opposite side cam....therefore it is setup no different than a dual cam?


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Binary.....*



Dewboy said:


> This would only be true if you could add force by PUSHING AGAINST A ROPE! ALMOST all folks realize that you CAN"T PUSH A ROPE/String! Your ASSUMPTION above would only be true if the cables were replaced by some kind of solid linkage(rods)! Since the BASIC PHYSICS rule that you can NOT PUSH A ROPE is true, Your assertion is *false*. The top cam will NOT "LOCK" if you lock the bottom cam in place even on a Binary cam, more accurately called the *Equalizer Cam*!
> 
> Where do you guys get this stuff? Do you just run it through your head and see it happen with your immagination and decide if you can immagine it, then it must be true?



To Reiterate....(for those of you who don't get it):

"I'm seeing people saying that the Destroyer isn't a Binary. The reason it IS a binary is that the eccentric cam axle and the letout groove perform the same function: to feed cable to the opposite cam in letoff."


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

CherryJu1ce said:


> I'll shoot that one that looks like the Alien, I just won't pay for it


Sometimes you get what you pay for:embara:


----------



## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

An eccentric for the eccentric..........compound the compound. Like the innovation, I like the way Bowtech keeps thinking outside the box. Not enough to own one, but maybe some day they will win me over.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

CherryJu1ce said:


> I'll shoot that one that looks like the Alien, I just won't pay for it



Ahhh, CherryJuice on BowTech's staff


----------



## stands4christ (Jun 4, 2008)

29innovator70 said:


> You can't be serious?


Some must not consider accuracy and on target pointability a possitive feature.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Dewboy said:


> Glad you asked! *Answer:* Having big honkin' Pillow block mounted to the top of each limb! Pillow blocks have their place on farm implements and industrial equipment, but I don't want them on my bow limbs! That is what I don't like.
> 
> There is also the Extra movig parts! That is not to like. The simplest design that accomplishes the desired result is ALWAYS BEST. This new Bowtech design is BACKWARDS ENGINEERING away from the simplest design... That is NOT to like.



You'll probably be shooting a longbow next year then? 
These "extra" parts have very high grade bearings and will only add to the durability of the assembly and provide more leverage to draw the bow and transfer energy effectivily.. I'll predict that we'll see a new level of compound bow energy efficency with this new offering.


----------



## Chris/AL (Oct 3, 2009)

Dewboy said:


> Glad you asked! *Answer:* Having big honkin' Pillow block mounted to the top of each limb! Pillow blocks have their place on farm implements and industrial equipment, but I don't want them on my bow limbs! That is what I don't like.
> 
> There is also the Extra movig parts! That is not to like. The simplest design that accomplishes the desired result is ALWAYS BEST. This new Bowtech design is BACKWARDS ENGINEERING away from the simplest design... That is NOT to like.


So you must hunt with an atlatl? Its the simplest design with the least moving parts that achieves the desired results.

Im only seeing 1 extra moving part, the flexible cable guide. Is it really that scary to you?


----------



## crooked stick (Jul 1, 2006)

Dewboy said:


> Glad you asked! *Answer:* Having big honkin' Pillow block mounted to the top of each limb! Pillow blocks have their place on farm implements and industrial equipment, but I don't want them on my bow limbs! That is what I don't like.
> 
> There is also the Extra movig parts! That is not to like. The simplest design that accomplishes the desired result is ALWAYS BEST. This new Bowtech design is BACKWARDS ENGINEERING away from the simplest design... That is NOT to like.


Next time you go under the knife be sure and tell the anesthesiologist that you'll pass because you like to keep it simple.


----------



## tmoran (Dec 9, 2003)

ROGUE73 said:


> To Reiterate....(for those of you who don't get it):
> 
> "I'm seeing people saying that the Destroyer isn't a Binary. The reason it IS a binary is that the eccentric cam axle and the letout groove perform the same function: to feed cable to the opposite cam in letoff."


How much does this super splined axle move? What an 1/8"? Mayb 1/4"? Are we supposed to beleive that the axle dictates the rotation of the opposite cam? Please. To give a crude analogy the Cam is the puppet master and the axle is the puppet. That is about how they are linked. That cam is rolling over regardless of the opposing axle position. I don't post like this often but this Bowtech marketing campaign is extremely deceptive. It's probably a great two cam bow. But didn't your black night two cam do 350+ years ago at 1/2 the cost? Biggest advantage this bow has is twin yokes.........but your black knight had that also, didn't it. I'm done with this thread. Call it what you will, it is not slaved. What you have synched with this technology is a cam to it's axle. Congrats.


----------



## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

no.1 BigMan said:


> Next time you go under the knife be sure and tell the anesthesiologist that you'll pass because you like to keep it simple.


That was funny right there.


----------



## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

I just want to know 2 things:

1) Is Walks with a GI getting paid royalties on that FlexGuard design?

2) How are the axles attached to the limbs? Seems like a potential weak link.


----------



## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

centershot said:


> An eccentric for the eccentric..........compound the compound. Like the innovation, I like the way *Bowtech keeps thinking outside the box*. Not enough to own one, but maybe some day they will win me over.


Just like arrows outside the spot this year. :tongue:

Really. Until these hit the street and people can see for themselves how it works this is all just armchair speculations. Besides things never seem to turn out the way they get tested once they are in the consumers hands. It's a hard track record to swallow. I can't wait to put the "new" Sentinel through it's paces. I will be the first to praise it if it is all it can be. :shade:


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

walks with a gi said:


> Ahhh, CherryJuice on BowTech's staff


First ya have to get those Martins out of our house..............ukey:. Been trying to convince him to buy a commie for months...........no luck yet.


----------



## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

trimantrekokc said:


> i could be wrong but i was under the impression to what made a "binary" a "binary" was that it was slaved from cam to cam with nothing attached to limbs or axles? if i am seeing it right, this is connected to axles on outside of limbs then goes to opposite side cam....therefore it is setup no different than a dual cam?


 Rather than attach to the cam body, the cable is attached to an offset axle that itself is permanently fixed to the cam. Essentially the same thing only with the offset "axle" the load is spread to the outboard side of the limb tips.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Bob_Looney said:


> It is slaved. Rather than slave to the cam body, the cable is slaved to an offset axle that itself is permanently fixed to the cam. Essentially the same thing only with the offset "axle" the load is spread to the outboard side of the limb tips.


 Also, the normal "small spool" on regular Binary cams only pays out cable during the draw to the opposite cam. This axle design takes up AND pays out cable during the draw cycle.


----------



## BDHUNTR (May 24, 2003)

If I was in the market for a new bow in 2010, I'm sure I'd test-shoot it. Along with a Hoyt, Mathews, PSE, Elite, etc, at which time I would choose the bow that felt right and shot the best for me. 

Anyone who says "I'm buying that bow NOW" sight unseen and without picking it up and shooting it is a fool.


----------



## PABowhntr (Oct 2, 2002)

> the 7" brace (340) goes out to 31"


That right there caught my eye. I have been waiting, for years, to be able to shoot a flagship bow that goes out to an accurate 31 inches.

I am drooling at the opportunity to evalute the 7 inch brace height model.


----------



## PABowhntr (Oct 2, 2002)

> 2) How are the axles attached to the limbs? Seems like a potential weak link.


It might actually turn out to be just the oppposite.


----------



## Trilithon (Sep 10, 2009)

Nice bow, never shot a Bowtec so i can't comment on them.

This thread was going along nice until about page 7, then you have to start ducking a dodging all the e-Pein swinging *sigh*.


----------



## Carl (Feb 5, 2003)

Some people are against changes and new ideas and they can only think negative towards any changes. Imagine all the crap "allen archery" took when they invented the first compound...a bow with wheels!!! If there was archery talk forum back then some of you guys would of flushed them down the toilet! With all the crap! I give bowtech an a+ for trying to come up with new ideas and inventions. I do not see the others manufactures bravely stepping out on a limb with any truly new ideas. Unless you call using the same cams and lowering the brace height on a bow to make it faster, a new idea! I think the new ideas are a big step for bowtech in the right direction.....


----------



## X-SHOOTER (Feb 9, 2005)

skynight said:


> I just want to know 2 things:
> 
> 1) Is Walks with a GI getting paid royalties on that FlexGuard design?
> 
> 2) How are the axles attached to the limbs? Seems like a potential weak link.


Look on the 4th picture on the 1st page and you'll notice they are mounted with 2 bolts each, looks like they are pretty solid!


----------



## stands4christ (Jun 4, 2008)

Should not have gone away from center pivot design. That was a great selling point to me. All of the bow companies have gone to a drastic reflex riser that has been proven to be less accurate. Speed is great, but not if it replaces accuracy or forgiveness. Bowtech could have created a speed bow with better shooting characteristics if they would have stayed with the center pivot design. (More deflex riser)


----------



## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

*I apologise*



tmoran said:


> Dewboy,
> 
> Read my post again. I was agreeing with you and trying to illustrate that the destroyer is in no a binary system. Not sure what you talking about by pushing rope but i'm sure your not getting my point. Bowtech is pushing this system as binary. It's not. I think you should read my post in context to the dude who tried to lock his bottom cam. I was trying illustrate a point. I am correct. The destroyer is in no way binary.



i'm sorry tmoran. I know you were trying to argue that the Destroyer system is not a true Binary, and you are actually not "* correct in that sense either, but your reasoning, or atleast your wording in your reasoning was totally wrong when you said the top cam would be "Locked" if the bottom cam was locked. If the cables had the physical property of a solid linkage, your illustration would be correct. But because of the basic rule of physics concerning the physical properties of ropes(you can't PUSH something with a rope, you can only pull with a rope), your illustration was not totally true. If the cables were solid instead of strings, instead of going limp, that ROD would have prevented the top cam from moving and it would have been "locked." 

The top cam will NOT lock, as illustrated by the even bigger flawed argument from the guy that actually locked his bottom cam to proove you wrong. The problem with his experiment, was that it only prooved that your statement was wrong but certainly did nothing to prove his argument. It only proved that he has little or no understand physics either. 

We are talking about Physics. You have almost no wiggle room in your choice of words. 

By the "Loose" definition of a Binary Cam, Bowtech can argue that their new system is a binary, BUT, is it an efficient or effective Binary remains to be seen. The amount of cable spooled out by the tiny amount of offset in the axle would have to be relative to the amount taken up by/compensated by the take up side. In order to do so, the take up side(part usually associated with the Module) would have to be much smaller than on standard binaries, which it is! Look how small it is!

I'm not arguing that it is not a Binary. I am arguing that it is a cumbersum design with no advantages over other binary systems. It is Backwards Engineering with the purpose of circumventing the established Binary Patentes and to give the illusion of Something New for Marketing Purposes! 

Since your illustration was flawed, and I can't keep my mouth shut when I see physics being turned upside down, I had to disagree. lol Sorry. I apologise if I offended you in any way. Thank You for addressing me one on one and allowing me the opportunity to explain and apologise for any bad feelings.

Anyone else that is offended by my defense of Physics 101, or my OPINION of the design(not function) of the new Bowtech Binary System, I apologise to you as well. I am only trying to defend Physics(from both sides) AND give my Opinion on this system based on Sound, Simple Design.

Anthony*


----------



## JD X729 (Apr 12, 2009)

tmoran said:


> Dude you actually tried that. Dangerous. The cable that went limp is of the pay out track of the top cam. It would have kept going limp also. The fact that it went limp should tell you that they are in fact slaved. Point being as long as their is tension in your cables they at 100% slaved and linked. I made the statement to bring attention to this. A true binary rotates at the same rate as the opposite cam. The destroyer's cams can rotate independently unlike the Binary systems we know of to date that are slaved together.


It wasn't dangerous and someone needed to prove what happens. I backed it down to about 10 - 20 lbs, I only drew it a little and watched what the string, cables and limbs were doing. Yes the one cable did go limp but not enough to dislodge it from the cam grove, that's why I only drew about ten inches. You did state that "if you lock the bottom cam the top is automatically locked", if it was locked I wouldn't have be able to draw it.
I bet I could do the same thing to any 2 cam and get similar results with a cable going limp. I looked at some videos of a Monster and an Omen, their cams rotate at the same rate and they are not a Binary system.

The payout side of my Admiral only pays out about 2.5 inches while the take-up side takes-up about 6.5 inches.
The Destroyer Y cable axles are mini cams in function. The take-up side of the Destroyer takes-up much less cable than my Admiral and the payout side on the Destroyer axles also pay out less. I doubt the ratio is the same but it doesn't need to be, you would end up with different draw curves with different ratios.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

stands4christ said:


> Should not have gone away from center pivot design. That was a great selling point to me. All of the bow companies have gone to a drastic reflex riser that has been proven to be less accurate. Speed is great, but not if it replaces accuracy or forgiveness. Bowtech could have created a speed bow with better shooting characteristics if they would have stayed with the center pivot design. (More deflex riser)



The CP line is still intact with the Sentinel, Admiral, Ice Man.... 

"Speed Bows" are interesting creatures. At current materials etc.. there is only so much one can do to get today's "high" speeds. Tomorrow promises some exciting changes and innovations but right now, these 2 bows are a step in the right direction as far as offering these speeds with an incredibly smooth draw and virtually no vibration. When we can get these speeds without bad trade offs it's a win, win. We'll see what the accuracy brings. ;-)

I agree with you though, I'd love to see a CP spit out some of the "high" end speeds and still only feel and hear a whisper. :shade:


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

"I'm not arguing that it is not a Binary. I am arguing that it is a cumbersum design with no advantages over other binary systems. It is Backwards Engineering with the purpose of circumventing the established Binary Patentes and to give the illusion of Something New for Marketing Purposes!"

This design allows for adjusting out any and all cam lean/limb twist with the dual yoke cables. You can't do that with a Cam and 1/2 Hybrid on the bottom cam.


----------



## JD X729 (Apr 12, 2009)

Dewboy said:


> The cams are slaved through equalization of the forces on the cables, hence the name *Equalizer Cams*. Before one cam can move more than the other, the other cam takes up the cable and equalizes the tension. All you managed to do was to Physically Prevent a cam from reacting in order to equalize the system, hence one of the cables lost tension. You were able to keep drawing the bow because the limbs were still free to move, therefore, the free cam was still able to spool in the string and the cable on the take-up side. The cable that the fixed cam normally spools in went limp because it wasn't being taken up by that cam.
> 
> You are just lucky the limp cable didn't come off and damage your bow or hurt yourself in the process. Sorry, but your experiment proved nothing other than your lack of understanding of basic physics.



Before I even tried it I new what was going to happen and I knew why it was going to happening so don't try to tell me I don't understand basic Physics. That is why I dropped the draw weight to 10 - 20 lbs.

I proved the misconception that many people have with a Binary system that if one cam moves that the other has to as well which it doesn't. What if you had extremely bad bearings in one of the cams, it could cause a much reduced but similar result.


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

> Bowtech could have created a speed bow with better shooting characteristics....


What part about a 7"-brace height hitting a TRUE (read actually set to specs) 340 fps don't you like? :teeth:

Couple those specs with the supreme shootability this new Overdrive system and limb combination is going to deliver, and I'm thinking it's just about the perfect hunting bow! :darkbeer:


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

JD X729 said:


> Before I even tried it I new what was going to happen and I knew why it was going to happening so don't try to tell me I don't understand basic Physics. That is why I dropped the draw weight to 10 - 20 lbs.
> 
> I proved the misconception that many people have with a Binary system that if one cam moves that the other has to as well which it doesn't. What if you had extremely bad bearings in one of the cams, it could cause a much reduced but similar result.


Im a fan of KISS or keep it simple stupid (not calling you stupid)..but Ive already said this. I learned this from a Kevin Strother video on youtube that popped up several years ago.

If you but a bow on a draw board and pull it back from different nocking points and it DOES NOT change the cam timing, it is a truly slaved system. This worked on my guardian, my82nd, my xlr8, my allegiance and 2 admirals that I worked on. If I take my wifes Diamond edge...a true 2 cam and I pull it from different points, the cam timing CHANGES. If I pull it from the loop they are perfectly synced..however since this is a 2 cam...it may or may not be sync'd in the hands of the shooter, hence creep tuning.

Pretty simple test.


----------



## b_vanfossen (Dec 5, 2008)

There are only 2 bows I look forward to trying this year and this is one of them. I like the features so far.



Poorguy said:


> A smooth speed bow, great valley, no hump, solid wall and shockfree? It's all good. :shade:


Unfortunately though- it looks like a lot of people didn't get to see the video that was removed of David Blanton showing off the new bow. It showed him straining to pull it back (at 60#'s) and it "popping" abruptly into the valley. I'm not drinking the "cool aid" of their advertising...


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

> > Quote:
> > 2) How are the axles attached to the limbs? Seems like a potential weak link.
> 
> 
> It might actually turn out to be just the oppposite.


Exactly, Frank.

I wrote this in one of yesterday's threads...


The more and more I think about the features, improvements and ehancements for this year the more excited I get. Just the way the axles attach to the limb alone has me excited. Think about it: a traditional limb has holes drilled through their centers; depending on how large those holes are, you're reducing the effective amount of limb material that's actually holding back those axles to 1/2 or perhaps even 1/4 of their original thickness... This design means the WHOLE limb will be on the other side of those axles -- about as bulletproof as you can get.


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

Blanton wasn't drawing a bow that was even close to being fitted properly to him, either. I have no idea why... but a lot of people noticed it.


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

*This will explain a slaved system*

Slaved cam systems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GJ6fVV3RfM


----------



## RxBowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

*"This Ain't Your Daddy's Bow"* HEY! That's my line Bro!  



ROGUE73 said:


> Here it is....Destroyer 2010....Long Pocket Design...Hard Core Limbs....Flx-Guard cable containment system.....Binary Overdrive system....


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=823166&highlight=alien


----------



## MGH-PA (Jul 8, 2006)

It certainly has my interest peaked, and it usually takes a lot to do so. I'm not one to jump at brand new bows, but I'm considering this one.


----------



## hyj (Aug 27, 2007)

great post! you should be in marketing. nice looking bow too


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

JD X729 said:


> Before I even tried it I new what was going to happen and I knew why it was going to happening so don't try to tell me I don't understand basic Physics. That is why I dropped the draw weight to 10 - 20 lbs.
> 
> I proved the misconception that many people have with a Binary system that if one cam moves that the other has to as well which it doesn't. What if you had extremely bad bearings in one of the cams, it could cause a much reduced but similar result.


 Explain why then when the draw stop post contacts the limb or cable, the other cam is stopped also? Out of respect to the other cam as to not hurt it's feelings?


----------



## oktx (Jul 21, 2006)

The riser looks a lot like the Alien.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*your line huh?.....*



RxBowhunter said:


> *"This Ain't Your Daddy's Bow"* HEY! That's my line Bro!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=823166&highlight=alien


http://www.bowtecharchery.com/shop/index.php/t-shirts/this-ain-t-your-daddy-s-bow-t-shirt.html


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Page 4, post 159. Notice that the axles are located in almost the exact center of rotational mass and the small diameter of the module. The bow appears to have very little limb tip movement to full draw and the cams are "balanced" with the center axle location. This should be a very low recoil bow!!


----------



## TailChaser (Aug 13, 2005)

The object of the "second cam" in the form of an axle is to get draw weight up faster. While this is really a good thing, it sounds like they are keeping the weight up through the whole draw so it's still going to shoot like a speed bow. If this bow draws hard, it's not because of the cammed axles, it's because customers want a bow that has a high IBO number and can't seem to figure out that if you have to shoot a bow at 60 lbs instead of 75, you losing more than you're gaining. Now if they used this on a "smooth" bow and let some of the weight off much faster so that it draws easily, you would get about a 5 fps boost from the extra weight at the front.


----------



## JD X729 (Apr 12, 2009)

poole said:


> Im a fan of KISS or keep it simple stupid (not calling you stupid)..but Ive already said this. I learned this from a Kevin Strother video on youtube that popped up several years ago.
> 
> If you but a bow on a draw board and pull it back from different nocking points and it DOES NOT change the cam timing, it is a truly slaved system. This worked on my guardian, my82nd, my xlr8, my allegiance and 2 admirals that I worked on. If I take my wifes Diamond edge...a true 2 cam and I pull it from different points, the cam timing CHANGES. If I pull it from the loop they are perfectly synced..however since this is a 2 cam...it may or may not be sync'd in the hands of the shooter, hence creep tuning.
> 
> Pretty simple test.


All I was trying to prove is that in a Binary system if one cam for some reason has *extremely* high resistance compared to the other one, my test used infinite resistance as a reference, that you can still draw the bow which is opposite of what the original post I replied to stated. It wasn't a test to prove the Destroyers uses a true Binary system. Also have I never said the Destroyer system is a true Binary system. The closest I said to that is that axles have a cam like function. 

Dewboy, I was trying to prove in a physical test in essence what you posted in post 367. Which is that if one cam is locked the other one can still move with how a bow is designed i.e with rope not a rod. I don't just take someone word that something works a certain way I like to prove it either way.

Also show me where my argument is flawed and why it didn't prove my argument that you can still draw the bow. Trying to understand why you believe this.:darkbeer:


----------



## b_vanfossen (Dec 5, 2008)

TailChaser said:


> The object of the "second cam" in the form of an axle is to get draw weight up faster. While this is really a good thing, it sounds like they are keeping the weight up through the whole draw so it's still going to shoot like a speed bow. If this bow draws hard, it's not because of the cammed axles, it's because customers want a bow that has a high IBO number and can't seem to figure out that if you have to shoot a bow at 60 lbs instead of 75, you losing more than you're gaining. Now if they used this on a "smooth" bow and let some of the weight off much faster so that it draws easily, you would get about a 5 fps boost from the extra weight at the front.


oh boy. He needs a lot of help. I wil only help you with the first:

the axle is not any type of "cam". It just an axle with splines- that's all. It's not any type of "gear".


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

parkerbows said:


> try looking at all the head to head bow comparisons and you will see a center pivot was quieter every year some by far.
> But we know you know that already you just don't want to believe it, and probably never shot one. I had a guardian and every top model from almost all manufacturers and NONE are as quiet except maybe another center pivot


Since you had one, let's go ahead and talk about that Guardian. For the record, I've shot one. I didn't say they weren't quiet, but they certainly aren't the most quiet, or significantly quieter than anything else. How about some actual numbers?

SLM Meter set at 24” in front of the bow (A-Weighting only): 350-grain arrow
1. Parker Pioneer XP – 78.7 dB
2. Fred Bear Truth – 79.7 dB
3. Bowtech Guardian – 79.9 dB
4. PSE X Force – 81.5 dB
5. Mathews Drenalin – 82.0 dB
6. Ross Cardiac – 82.1 dB
7. Hoyt Vectrix – 83.8 dB
8. APA Black Mamba X2 – 85.1 dB

The Guardian is ranked 3rd, and all of the bows are very, very close. Your ear would not be able to tell a difference between the first five bows listed. 

You were saying?


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

frankchugga said:


> Ever hear of the AT hunting bow evaluations??? The Guardian blew away all the other bows and the General is the first bow below the 80 db threshold. r u a Maffews fanboy by chance?..............


And you were saying?

I'm no one's "fanboy". I own several brands, and like archery in general.


----------



## Bird Levron (Mar 14, 2009)

its bowtech's year for sure, folks keep on talking smack on them, they gonna blow everybody out the water with the destroyer, its gonna be just like the battleship and sink all the competition


----------



## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

MOC said:


> Since you had one, let's go ahead and talk about that Guardian. For the record, I've shot one. I didn't say they weren't quiet, but they certainly aren't the most quiet, or significantly quieter than anything else. How about some actual numbers?
> 
> SLM Meter set at 24” in front of the bow (A-Weighting only): 350-grain arrow
> 1. Parker Pioneer XP – 78.7 dB
> ...


those are interesting numbers!


----------



## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*I wanna thank you...*

To all the archery engineers who post here on AT, I want to thank you. I will be buying a bow this spring. It is good to know that this Destroyer is many things...

A. It has too many moving parts.
B. It will get hopelessly clogged up with dirt.
C. The flex guard will not work the way it was designed to.
D. The Cam system is not (or maybe is) a binary system.
E. The bow will be a reliability nightmare.
F. In summary, the bow is a pile of crap, and no one should think about it.

Again, many thanks to the engineers on AT. You have saved me lots of time and money. And to think, you didn't even have to see the bow in person, or actually shoot it, to figure all this out. Astounding!

Thanks again, seriously.


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

MOC said:


> Since you had one, let's go ahead and talk about that Guardian. For the record, I've shot one. I didn't say they weren't quiet, but they certainly aren't the most quiet, or significantly quieter than anything else. How about some actual numbers?
> 
> SLM Meter set at 24” in front of the bow (A-Weighting only): 350-grain arrow
> 1. Parker Pioneer XP – 78.7 dB
> ...


You're not comparing apples to apples. What you and a lot of other people never pay attention to is that the Guardian and Commander have none of the following "crutches" to quiet them down as do many of the bows in your list: string suppressors, and limb savers. Add to those the riser/string suppressor/rollerguard dampers on Mathews bows....ukey:. The only devices for noise/vibe on the 07 bowtechs were rubber string and cable "squids" (aka hush kits) and a cable guard squid. FYI.......every 3 decibel increase in volume results in a doubling of the sound. Therefore, a bow with 81 db output is 2X louder than a bow with 78 db out. In stereo audio terms, this translates into a doubling of amplifier power output (watts) required to get the 3 db increase in volume. There's not another bow made today that can attain the low noise and vibe specs of a center pivot........except in some people's fantasies.........:dj:.


----------



## crackedup (Mar 17, 2009)

MOC said:


> Since you had one, let's go ahead and talk about that Guardian. For the record, I've shot one. I didn't say they weren't quiet, but they certainly aren't the most quiet, or significantly quieter than anything else. How about some actual numbers?
> 
> SLM Meter set at 24” in front of the bow (A-Weighting only): 350-grain arrow
> 1. Parker Pioneer XP – 78.7 dB
> ...





MOC said:


> And you were saying?
> 
> I'm no one's "fanboy". I own several brands, and like archery in general.





frankchugga said:


> You're not comparing apples to apples. What you and a lot of other people never pay attention to is that the Guardian and Commander have none of the following "crutches" to quiet them down as do many of the bows in your list: string suppressors, and limb savers. Add to those the riser/string suppressor/rollerguard dampers on Mathews bows....ukey:. The only devices for noise/vibe on the 07 bowtechs were rubber string and cable "squids" (aka hush kits) and a cable guard squid. FYI.......every 3 decibel increase in volume results in a doubling of the sound. Therefore, a bow with 81 db output is 2X louder than a bow with 78 db out. In stereo audio terms, this translates into a doubling of amplifier power output (watts) required to get the 3 db increase in volume. There's not another bow made today that can attain the low noise and vibe specs of a center pivot........except in some people's fantasies.........:dj:.


Crutch or not, it's how the bows come from the factory. Test's are done on those bows and the way the leave the factory. From the factory Bowtech came in 3rd in this test.


----------



## Mikegb88 (Aug 17, 2007)

JOE PA said:


> To all the archery engineers who post here on AT, I want to thank you. I will be buying a bow this spring. It is good to know that this Destroyer is many things...
> 
> A. It has too many moving parts.
> B. It will get hopelessly clogged up with dirt.
> ...


Someone give this guy some money! Hes a genious! He knows what he is talking about for obvious reasons!


----------



## JD X729 (Apr 12, 2009)

walks with a gi said:


> Explain why then when the draw stop post contacts the limb or cable, the other cam is stopped also? Out of respect to the other cam as to not hurt it's feelings?


There is a lot more tension on the cables and force on the limbs when the bow is at full draw compared to my test, this helps keep the cams in sync more easily. If a person were to pull hard enough and the draw stop or limbs didn't break then one cable would go limp like in my test, I think something would break first because of the tremendous forces at play.

I would have never tried my test at real draw weights, I would have a pile of pieces. Some thing had to give since the locked cam wasn't paying out string and cable. It forced the limbs to flex to compensate for the lack of pay out.

This is the last I will post about this on this thread as I have to many off topic posts for my liking in this thread already. If some wants to start another thread about being able to draw a Binary system with one cam locked I will post there otherwise I will only post info directly pertaining to the Destroyers. :darkbeer:


----------



## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

walks with a gi said:


> "I'm not arguing that it is not a Binary. I am arguing that it is a cumbersum design with no advantages over other binary systems. It is Backwards Engineering with the purpose of circumventing the established Binary Patentes and to give the illusion of Something New for Marketing Purposes!"
> 
> This design allows for adjusting out any and all cam lean/limb twist with the dual yoke cables. You can't do that with a Cam and 1/2 Hybrid on the bottom cam.


Maybe the first part of your post was quoted?
First it says it is going backwards and no advantage and then you say you can adjust out cam lean which is a step forward on a binary.
Hopefully the first part wasn't your words


----------



## Illyan (Feb 4, 2008)

Sweet looking bow


----------



## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

MOC said:


> Since you had one, let's go ahead and talk about that Guardian. For the record, I've shot one. I didn't say they weren't quiet, but they certainly aren't the most quiet, or significantly quieter than anything else. How about some actual numbers?
> 
> SLM Meter set at 24” in front of the bow (A-Weighting only): 350-grain arrow
> 1. Parker Pioneer XP – 78.7 dB
> ...


I have owned 3 other of the bows on the list and to me it seemed noticeably quieter and less vibration. But whatever thats fine maybe that data is correct and some of us are crazy


----------



## Rattler (Dec 19, 2006)

I have heard of one hitting a lower decible than any of those mentioned.


----------



## Arrowflngr (Apr 17, 2009)

Data for all you techies
http://www.archeryevolution.com/reports.php


----------



## Laplacesdemon (Oct 6, 2009)

*Center Pivot/Reflex-Deflex*



walks with a gi said:


> The big advantage of a CP is that it moves the geometry towards that of a deflex riser.


I respectfully disagree. The CP merely creates the appearance of a less reflexed riser, but without the perceived benefits. Reflex/Deflex riser shape has been relevant traditionally due to the general direct relationship to brace height. As bow riser, limb, and pocket designs become less conventional, reliance on the mere shape of the riser becomes a less and less reliable indicator. The CP design utilizes the imagery of deflex without the corresponding increase in BH typically seen in traditional designs.

A more deflexed/less reflexed riser (all other things on a given bow remaining equal) does two things that are generally perceived to be advantageous--1) increases brace height, thereby reducing the proportion of power stroke to draw length, thereby reducing the amount of time the arrow spends in contact with the string, thereby reducing the potential for post-release influence on arrow flight; and 2) increases brace height, thereby increasing the distance between the handle and the lateral pivot point of a bow (the line between the two points of string departure from the cams at full draw). Adding a piece of riser leading up to the middle of the limb does not change any of these material elements of bow geometry. 

As long as the path from the lateral pivot point of the bow (the edge of the cam where the string departs at full draw) to the handle is entirely laterally rigid, it doesn't matter one bit what shape the intervening parts take---all that matters is the ultimate distances between the lateral pivot line, the handle and the string at rest (see picture).

The mid-limb attachment point may have other benefits not directly related to reflex/deflex geometry (such as reducing post-release vibration/movement of the limb).

If there are other mathematician/M.E. archers out there who really understand bow physics and would care to discuss design issues in the absence of anecdotal and irrational arguments, drop me a PM (if you can explain my screenname without doing any research, you may be a candidate).


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

crackedup said:


> Crutch or not, it's how the bows come from the factory. Test's are done on those bows and the way the leave the factory. From the factory Bowtech came in 3rd in this test.


Strip away the crutches from all the other bows and guess what bow comes in 1st?...............


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2009)

it doesn,t appear to operate any differently than the AVS system on the Mathews, is there a difference other than looks?


----------



## Nate's Parker (Feb 16, 2005)

That bow is friggin sick and I love the limbs!!!


----------



## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

ChappyHOYT said:


> Sometimes you get what you pay for:embara:


Ha! And sometimes...you just don't. I've been shooting a smooth drawing, fast, quiet bow with laminated limbs for about 3 years now. The new Destroyer is nothing more, nothing less. 



walks with a gi said:


> Ahhh, CherryJuice on BowTech's staff


From what I hear, that's no bargain, either. Even if they offered me a spot (not gonna happen), I can honestly say that I'd refuse it. 



frankchugga said:


> First ya have to get those Martins out of our house..............ukey:. Been trying to convince him to buy a commie for months...........no luck yet.


Good luck with that...the Slayer X and Scepter IV Mag won't be replaced, unless they're designated as backup bows to a new Alien-Z...:mg:


----------



## twodogs02 (Oct 12, 2009)

I shoot a BowTech '07 Guardian. When I bought the bow a lot of talk (just like what's going on today) was on these boards and others about how great this is, how much that sucks, etc. I went out and shot a lot of bows Narrowed the list down to three and then shot each of those probably 50-75 times each. In the end, it was my personal preferences that led me to my choice. No one else is going to drop the string on the animal that's out in front of me so I want what works for me.

To me the bow looks like a target bow, not something I would carry in the woods. I'll shoot it and make up my own mind, I trust all of you will do the same who have such high or low opinions about this bow or any other that are soon to be released.


----------



## Kelsnore (Feb 7, 2005)

Wow Cherryjuice. I don't understand your dis-like for Bowtech. 

Personally, I am seeing the product of engineers who have definately thought outside of the box. I've been a Bowtech dealer since 2001. 

The last few years haven't really tripped my trigger. This is the first year, since the Tribute, that I have been stoked about their line-up. 

I have a feeling that Bowtech is gonna rock this year! Like it or not...this stuff looks like it is the real deal!


----------



## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

Kelsnore said:


> Wow Cherryjuice. I don't understand your dis-like for Bowtech.
> 
> Personally, I am seeing the product of engineers who have definately thought outside of the box. I've been a Bowtech dealer since 2001.
> 
> ...


I think some will like it and some won't others will just bash it and never give it a chance


----------



## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

That's why I like this site. You actually learn something unlike sites like BH.com and some other forums that have 2nd graders on there posting dumbarse threads and replies.


----------



## Jhorne (Jul 15, 2003)

HCH said:


> That's why I like this site. You actually learn something unlike sites like BH.com and some other forums that have 2nd graders on there posting dumbarse threads and replies.


Sorta like this one.:darkbeer:


----------



## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

Jhorne said:


> Sorta like this one.:darkbeer:


Lol..no even WORSE!!!:darkbeer:


----------



## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

Laplacesdemon said:


> I respectfully disagree. The CP merely creates the appearance of a less reflexed riser, but without the perceived benefits. Reflex/Deflex riser shape has been relevant traditionally due to the general direct relationship to brace height. As bow riser, limb, and pocket designs become less conventional, reliance on the mere shape of the riser becomes a less and less reliable indicator. The CP design utilizes the imagery of deflex without the corresponding increase in BH typically seen in traditional designs.
> 
> A more deflexed/less reflexed riser (all other things on a given bow remaining equal) does two things that are generally perceived to be advantageous--1) increases brace height, thereby reducing the proportion of power stroke to draw length, thereby reducing the amount of time the arrow spends in contact with the string, thereby reducing the potential for post-release influence on arrow flight; and 2) increases brace height, thereby increasing the distance between the handle and the lateral pivot point of a bow (the line between the two points of string departure from the cams at full draw). Adding a piece of riser leading up to the middle of the limb does not change any of these material elements of bow geometry.
> 
> ...



So where exactly are taking your reflex and deflex measurements from?


----------



## crackedup (Mar 17, 2009)

frankchugga said:


> Strip away the crutches from all the other bows and guess what bow comes in 1st?...............


Take the V8 out of a corvette and race a Yugo, see who finishes 1st. Your logic makes sense. Do all manufactures for every product strip things off to make a comparison? No. I tell ya what, I'll put my long bow up against your so called quite bow, lets see which one is quiet. It has no crutches added to it like center pivot, heck I'll even let you keep your rubber string and cable "squids" (aka hush kits) and a cable guard squid. According to your logic this would be a fair test. I take that back, you would have to strip off the cams, cut up the riser, then find someway to attach a string to the limbs, and get rid of the "hush kit".


----------



## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

looks like a feeble attempt to create something that aint needed and will not serve a real purpose.... in other words i see problems were there didnt use to be any what will it really do?


----------



## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

xman59 said:


> looks like a feeble attempt to create something that aint needed and will not serve a real purpose.... in other words i see problems were there didnt use to be any what will it really do?



So you've seen one? How did it shoot?


----------



## Ben/PA (Feb 26, 2008)

HCH said:


> That's why I like this site. You actually learn something unlike sites like BH.com and some other forums that have 2nd graders on there posting dumbarse threads and replies.


Really....AT is the mature education minded site? :darkbeer: Thanks for the chuckle. I take AT for what it is and nothing more.


----------



## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

b_vanfossen said:


> There are only 2 bows I look forward to trying this year and this is one of them. I like the features so far.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately though- it looks like a lot of people didn't get to see the video that was removed of David Blanton showing off the new bow. It showed him straining to pull it back (at 60#'s) and it "popping" abruptly into the valley. I'm not drinking the "cool aid" of their advertising...


*I saw the video. The bow may have been a little too much for him to pull back. Hence - the appearance of it "popping abruptly into the valley". I'm not being critical of your post, but I thought of that when I saw the video. *


----------



## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

Kelsnore said:


> Wow Cherryjuice. I don't understand your dis-like for Bowtech.
> 
> Personally, I am seeing the product of engineers who have definately thought outside of the box. I've been a Bowtech dealer since 2001.
> 
> ...


It's not that I dislike Bowtech. What I can't stand is all the people who constantly proclaim how revolutionary a design is, when the end result will literally be IDENTICAL to what we already have. Bowtech is known for making silent, smooth, fast bows, and this is more of the same. The cam isn't revolutionary, the new "axle" really doesn't serve any purpose other than the fact that it's "different", the laminated limbs (which they should have been using for years) have been around for years, and the flexible cable rod is designed to fix a problem that really isn't even a problem (last I checked, bows with cable rods that "induce all this torque" will still shoot an arrow in the same hole every single time in the hands of the right shooter or when strapped to a Hooter Shooter). 

It's not just Bowtech...there isn't a company out there that claims to have invented something or done something revolutionary, when all they've really done is refined someone else's idea to produce the same result. The only thing that is going up is the pricetag. Think of it like this...

In the golf industry, despite all the new advancements in technology like aluminum/carbon composite driver heads, oversized clubs, cavity-backed irons, graphite shafts, rubber cord grips, the average score and handicap for the average Joe player HASN'T COME DOWN SINCE THE 1950's!! Just more proof that the equipment is virtually meaningless once you reach a certain level of proficiency. 

As far as I'm concerned, this Destroyer is just like any other bow in that the end result will be unchanged.


----------



## kwilde (Jul 10, 2006)

```
I saw the video. The bow may have been a little too much for him to pull back. Hence - the appearance of it "popping abruptly into the valley". I'm not being critical of your post, but I thought of that when I saw the video.
```
The draw was too long for him, that is why it "Appeared" to have the hump.


----------



## Chris/AL (Oct 3, 2009)

CherryJu1ce said:


> It's not that I dislike Bowtech. What I can't stand is all the people who constantly proclaim how revolutionary a design is, when the end result will literally be IDENTICAL to what we already have. Bowtech is known for making silent, smooth, fast bows, and this is more of the same. The cam isn't revolutionary, the new "axle" really doesn't serve any purpose other than the fact that it's "different", the laminated limbs (which they should have been using for years) have been around for years, and the flexible cable rod is designed to fix a problem that really isn't even a problem (last I checked, bows with cable rods that "induce all this torque" will still shoot an arrow in the same hole every single time in the hands of the right shooter or when strapped to a Hooter Shooter).
> 
> It's not just Bowtech...there isn't a company out there that claims to have invented something or done something revolutionary, when all they've really done is refined someone else's idea to produce the same result. The only thing that is going up is the pricetag. Think of it like this...
> 
> ...


It may not be revolutionary, but its an improvement on past models. Im ok with that. Id love to have a smooth drawing bow that slings an arrow at 330.


----------



## Chris/AL (Oct 3, 2009)

MOC said:


> Since you had one, let's go ahead and talk about that Guardian. For the record, I've shot one. I didn't say they weren't quiet, but they certainly aren't the most quiet, or significantly quieter than anything else. How about some actual numbers?
> 
> SLM Meter set at 24” in front of the bow (A-Weighting only): 350-grain arrow
> 1. Parker Pioneer XP – 78.7 dB
> ...


Have a link to that test? The test Ive seen here http://www.archeryevolution.com/pdf/2007Face-OffResultsArcheryTalk.pdf has numbers that arent even close to the ones youve posted.


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

CherryJu1ce said:


> It's not that I dislike Bowtech. What I can't stand is all the people who constantly proclaim how revolutionary a design is, when the end result will literally be IDENTICAL to what we already have. Bowtech is known for making silent, smooth, fast bows, and this is more of the same. The cam isn't revolutionary, the new "axle" really doesn't serve any purpose other than the fact that it's "different", the laminated limbs (which they should have been using for years) have been around for years, and the flexible cable rod is designed to fix a problem that really isn't even a problem (last I checked, bows with cable rods that "induce all this torque" will still shoot an arrow in the same hole every single time in the hands of the right shooter or when strapped to a Hooter Shooter).
> 
> It's not just Bowtech...there isn't a company out there that claims to have invented something or done something revolutionary, when all they've really done is refined someone else's idea to produce the same result. The only thing that is going up is the pricetag. Think of it like this...
> 
> ...


Yep, that's pretty much what i think as well, i don't have anything against Bowtech, and their new bow looks like it could be a good one for them this year, but i don't really see all this supposed "new technology and new innovations" that everyone keeps talking about, most of the "new" stuff on the new bow appears to nothing more than re-worked and tweaked ideas from the past.

It's nothing against Bowtech, as Cherry said all the companies do it, it just gets tiring hearing everyone carry on about how inventive or creative or innovative their preferred company is, when most of it is just old ideas brought back to life with newer/better materials.

Good luck to Bowtech and their 2010 line up, i hope they have a good year this year ! :darkbeer:

Woody


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Rattler said:


> I have heard of one hitting a lower decible than any of those mentioned.


But he did his own testing.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Woody69 said:


> Yep, that's pretty much what i think as well, i don't have anything against Bowtech, and their new bow looks like it could be a good one for them this year, but i don't really see all this supposed "new technology and new innovations" that everyone keeps talking about, most of the "new" stuff on the new bow appears to nothing more than re-worked and tweaked ideas from the past.
> 
> *It's nothing against Bowtech, as Cherry said all the companies do it, it just gets tiring hearing everyone carry on about how inventive or creative or innovative their preferred company is, when most of it is just old ideas brought back to life with newer/better materials.*
> 
> ...


Then why do you even open and participate in the Bowtech threads? :shade: Simple way to not read that type of information huh?


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

Poorguy said:


> Then why do you even open and participate in the Bowtech threads? :shade: Simple way to not read that type of information huh?


Because the natural man loves to cause trouble and mischief and on an internet forum it is even way more easier for him to get away with it.


----------



## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

Looks from the pictures I've seen in this thread that the Destroyer will have a wrap-around one piece, is this correct?

Could be the only thing negative (personal opinion) that I can see with the bow so far if it is a wrap-around. The two piece w/side plates and the back of the riser bare like on my 82nd and General are sheer perfection for me personally with regard to feel. 

Could be a deal breaker for me if it's a wrap-around, but I'll withold judgement until I get one in my grubby little mitts to try out.  I absolutely hate the grip on the Air Raid, it's way too square. Of course, I guess there is always the possibility of modification of the grip if need be or aftermarket if/when that becomes available.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

NE1C_my_arrow said:


> Looks from the pictures I've seen in this thread that the Destroyer will have a wrap-around one piece, is this correct?
> 
> Could be the only thing negative (personal opinion) that I can see with the bow so far if it is a wrap-around. The two piece w/side plates and the back of the riser bare like on my 82nd and General are sheer perfection for me personally with regard to feel.
> 
> Could be a deal breaker for me if it's a wrap-around, but I'll withold judgement until I get one in my grubby little mitts to try out.  I absolutely hate the grip on the Air Raid, it's way too square. Of course, I guess there is always the possibility of modification of the grip if need be or aftermarket if/when that becomes available.


That's actually a good question and one I haven't seen asked. Now I'm curious as to what the grip is as well and I'll inquire if no one finds out sooner. Nice to see your open mindedness.


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

Poorguy said:


> Then why do you even open and participate in the Bowtech threads? :shade: Simple way to not read that type of information huh?


or even simpler would be for all the fanboys to stop trying to claim their particular favourite company is the inventor of everything, and is so clever and innovative and thinking outside the box ! :darkbeer:

I like to look at all the new offerings from each company that's why i get on the threads, but like i said it's gets a bit monotonous when everyone wants to claim their preferred company invented everything when most things are just re-worked ideas from the past, someones got to set the record straight before we have a whole bunch of mis-informed fanboys running around trying to tell everyone that their preferred brand invented everything ! :darkbeer:

like i already said it's nothing against Bowtech, all the companies re-work old ideas, it's the fanboys who start trying to tell everyone how inventive and innovative and outside the box their preferred company is that starts getting old ! :darkbeer:

Woody


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Woody69 said:


> or even simpler would be for all the fanboys to stop trying to claim their particular favourite company is the inventor of everything, and is so clever and innovative and thinking outside the box ! :darkbeer:
> 
> I like to look at all the new offerings from each company that's why i get on the threads, but like i said it's gets a bit monotonous when everyone wants to claim their preferred company invented everything when most things are just re-worked ideas from the past, someones got to set the record straight before we have a whole bunch of mis-informed fanboys running around trying to tell everyone that their preferred brand invented everything ! :darkbeer:
> 
> ...


Sounds like your talking about Mathews in a Bowtech thread.  Show me a single company that has anything newer? 



> like i already said it's nothing against Bowtech, all the companies re-work old ideas, it's the fanboys who start trying to tell everyone how inventive and innovative and outside the box their preferred company is that starts getting old ! :darkbeer:


And yet your still on the thread. Again, it's simple, step away from the computer, hit the back button. I have faith in you that you can do it. Give a try, it'll make you feel better. :teeth:


----------



## Jhorne (Jul 15, 2003)

Woody69 said:


> or even simpler would be for all the fanboys to stop trying to claim their particular favourite company is the inventor of everything, and is so clever and innovative and thinking outside the box ! :darkbeer:
> 
> I like to look at all the new offerings from each company that's why i get on the threads, but like i said it's gets a bit monotonous when everyone wants to claim their preferred company invented everything when most things are just re-worked ideas from the past, someones got to set the record straight before we have a whole bunch of mis-informed fanboys running around trying to tell everyone that their preferred brand invented everything ! :darkbeer:
> 
> ...


But Bowtech can make the old ideas work where others have fail.:teeth:


----------



## NCTribute (Jan 28, 2007)

*A Clue*



MOC said:


> Since you had one, let's go ahead and talk about that Guardian. For the record, I've shot one. I didn't say they weren't quiet, but they certainly aren't the most quiet, or significantly quieter than anything else. How about some actual numbers?
> 
> SLM Meter set at 24” in front of the bow (A-Weighting only): 350-grain arrow
> 1. Parker Pioneer XP – 78.7 dB
> ...


Do you even have a clue what dB ratings even mean? If you did then you would not make your comment about the first five bows. Please look up the significance of a 3 dB difference, then think about your statement.


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

NE1C_my_arrow said:


> Looks from the pictures I've seen in this thread that the Destroyer will have a wrap-around one piece, is this correct?
> 
> Could be the only thing negative (personal opinion) that I can see with the bow so far if it is a wrap-around. The two piece w/side plates and the back of the riser bare like on my 82nd and General are sheer perfection for me personally with regard to feel.
> 
> Could be a deal breaker for me if it's a wrap-around, but I'll withold judgement until I get one in my grubby little mitts to try out.  I absolutely hate the grip on the Air Raid, it's way too square. Of course, I guess there is always the possibility of modification of the grip if need be or aftermarket if/when that becomes available.


I'm almost certain that this is the same grip mold used on all the other BT risers and the IceMan... Like the Air Raid, if that's the case, then you can simply remove the one-piece grip and attach the side plates that you're more accustomed to. 

As a matter of fact, that's been my plan since the day I first saw it. :darkbeer:


----------



## Archer Dude (Mar 16, 2008)

I don't get it.

There are other bows up to 366 fps out there with simple cams with bearings on a straight axle.

Why on earth would anyone complicate it with bent axles like this or offset excentric inner bearings like Mathews? 

More moving parts without any appreciable gain in speed seem a rediculous wast of engineering time, money, and risk of problems.

I don't get it.

Best wishes.


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

Because those that _claim_ to do 366  don't feel ANYTHING like this bow does. :shade:


----------



## 1mitch4 (Aug 30, 2005)

I think the reason is because most people have found out that speed isn't the main key. I know a lot of people want the speed or are looking for it, but I would just as soon have a bow that shot 30 fps slower and super smooth as one that is smoking fast and vibrates like a tuning fork when you shoot it.


----------



## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

Greg / MO said:


> I'm almost certain that this is the same grip mold used on all the other BT risers and the IceMan... Like the Air Raid, if that's the case, then you can simply remove the one-piece grip and attach the side plates that you're more accustomed to.
> 
> As a matter of fact, that's been my plan since the day I first saw it. :darkbeer:


Great information, thanks! I did notice that there was a two piece grip option for the Air Raid, but wasn't aware that it had the same mold around the grip area as the bows with the two piece grips. If that is indeed the case, then that would take care of the only fear I have with this bow. The feel of the grip on the 82nd was a major contributing factor to me buying the bow in the first place, along with the sheer speed of it. The only negative was the draw cycle. But, with a speed bow it's give and take and I understood that when I bought it. I've since picked up a General and experienced the wonders of CP technology with regard to how quiet and dead in the hand those bows are. So, when I see a bow coming down the line that has both the speed of my 82nd, with a much more forgiving draw cycle that is supposed to be as quiet and dead in the hand as a CP bow.. I just can't see any negatives here at all. 

I'm going to check with my local shop tomorrow and see if/when they plan on getting one of these into the shop. I've never been one to get all flustered about a new bow like this, but if the Destroyer does what is being claimed then I can't see myself not getting one eventually. It quite possibly could be the perfect bow for my needs/wants. :darkbeer:

Time to start saving my pennies.


----------



## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

*Bowtech Grip*



NE1C_my_arrow said:


> Looks from the pictures I've seen in this thread that the Destroyer will have a wrap-around one piece, is this correct?
> 
> Could be the only thing negative (personal opinion) that I can see with the bow so far if it is a wrap-around. The two piece w/side plates and the back of the riser bare like on my 82nd and General are sheer perfection for me personally with regard to feel.



*The grips on the '08 Bowtechs (like on my Guardian and soon to be Commander) are my favorite grips of all the different bows out there. Perfection is right. 

I can't tell by the picture I saw of the Destroyer if it is a wrap around or not. *


----------



## sliverpicker (Oct 19, 2008)

*look at all the cute little parts*

Lot's to break, customer service sucks.........


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

It is, wdriver... but like I said, I'm almost POSITIVE it's the same mold -- which means you can either leave it as is or purchase the stock side plates for it.

Obviously there's a few guys on here who do a more-than-adequate job of making and selling side plates as well.


----------



## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

Greg / MO said:


> It is, wdriver... but like I said, I'm almost POSITIVE it's the same mold -- which means you can either leave it as is or purchase the stock side plates for it.
> 
> Obviously there's a few guys on here who do a more-than-adequate job of making and selling side plates as well.


Looking back on page 4 of the thread, where the pictures of the risers and complete bow are, that it indeed does look like the same cutout as is on my 82nd with regard to the side plates. I was thrown by the straight line just under the shelf at the top of the cutout, and assumed that it was a wrap around because of that but the 82nd has the same straight line as well.


----------



## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

bowtechbenPA said:


> Really....AT is the mature education minded site? :darkbeer: Thanks for the chuckle. I take AT for what it is and nothing more.


Lol...I didn't say all were mature here. There is just a lot of great info and knowledge on here, due to the large number of members and experience this sites members offer, compared to other sites I have been on that bore me with the same topics that are more geared toward novice hunters and guys wanting to get their post count up/arguing with people due to them being jealous of another's success and their lack of ability and skill as a bow hunter. Anyway, great post here with the new bow Bowtech is putting out, and thanks to AT I learned about Strothers new line of bows too. I learned about New Breed Archery here too.


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*handles....*



NE1C_my_arrow said:


> Looking back on page 4 of the thread, where the pictures of the risers and complete bow are, that it indeed does look like the same cutout as is on my 82nd with regard to the side plates. I was thrown by the straight line just under the shelf at the top of the cutout, and assumed that it was a wrap around because of that but the 82nd has the same straight line as well.


does this help?....


----------



## trlcavscout (Jan 30, 2008)

Poorguy said:


> $949 is MSRP not necessarily what your dealer will be selling it for.


So $1200 around here :mg: Thats the only reason I wont have a "new" one. 

Why couldnt they just bring the Tribute back.


----------



## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> does this help?....


Nice! As long as a person can get side plates made and shoot off the back of the riser, I think it'll be all good.  Are these actual production risers, or prototype?

Thanks for the pic! :darkbeer:


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*appear to be production risers....*



NE1C_my_arrow said:


> Nice! As long as a person can get side plates made and shoot off the back of the riser, I think it'll be all good.  Are these actual production risers, or prototype?
> 
> Thanks for the pic! :darkbeer:


they appear to be production risers.

the pic of the guy holding the bow---his hand is covering up the grip---appears that it is a wrap around grip.


----------



## Wil (Aug 13, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> Here it is....Destroyer 2010....Long Pocket Design...Hard Core Limbs....Flx-Guard cable containment system.....Binary Overdrive system....


wow that bow looks amazing! I am going to have to have a destroyer 340!


----------



## cgchris99 (Apr 10, 2003)

This thread cracks me up. How can there be so many interesting posts and so much crap all in the same thread.:darkbeer:


----------



## TTTHHHPPP (Apr 4, 2008)

*Press*

What kind of press is recommended for this weapon? Do you press it on the axles? :mg:


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

The EZ press will work, but the user needs to be very careful. 

The best press for it will be the Sure-Loc X-press.


----------



## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

*retrofitting a flexguard to an '09 cp?*

*Anyone have an idea if the Destroyer flex guard can be retrofitted to an '09 center pivot bow?*


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

No, they cannot.


----------



## MightyElkHntr (Dec 13, 2006)

MSRP of $949... let's list those companies with similar or higher MSRP(we're talkin MSRP, not MAP or what dealers were actually giving them away for now)

from 2009:
Hoyt AM 32 and 35, all of the elite series, etc, etc...(MSRP ~ 950 or $1000)
Mathews Monster and XLR8, Hyperlite, Drenalin, Dren XL, etc...etc...(MSRP ~ 900-950)
PSE Xforce GX, GX Dream Season and Omen (MSRP ~ 900-950)
Bowtech Admiral, Sentinel and Captain (MSRP ~900)

So, where does this compare with those released for this year so far price wise?

Hoyt - ~950 to $1600~:mg:
PSE - ~ 750-950
Mathews - ? we'll have to wait a while longer...
Bowtech - 950 and under would be my bet based on talking with the reps... Still a better buy for a breakthrough bow.


----------



## holtzer1 (Jan 9, 2008)

moosetrack said:


> first cool as hell, second not trying to be a smart ass but it looks like they wont have to worry about the axle spliting the limbs with that designe..


no, but i can see the cam completely letting loose of the limb. those 2 little contact/attachment points arent going to hold up for very long. mark my words..it WILL come apart


----------



## Mikegb88 (Aug 17, 2007)

holtzer1 said:


> no, but i can see the cam completely letting loose of the limb. those 2 little contact/attachment points arent going to hold up for very long. mark my words..it WILL come apart


This is not some radical design. Its been done before. If anything, its going to be very strong.


----------



## X-SHOOTER (Feb 9, 2005)

holtzer1 said:


> no, but i can see the cam completely letting loose of the limb. those 2 little contact/attachment points arent going to hold up for very long. mark my words..it WILL come apart


Hmm, I dunno but I think they would have did some testing before they just built a bow and put it on the market, but hey maybe you are wiser than engineers and designers and R&D people, time will tell though! Seems to be an awful lot of people who are sure something won't work and nobody has even shot the bow or seen one for that matter in person!


----------



## bowman_bob (May 8, 2007)

just a thought wouldnt the roller guard be affected by heat and expand/warp if it is used enough in this condition?


----------



## X-SHOOTER (Feb 9, 2005)

bowman_bob said:


> just a thought wouldnt the roller guard be affected by heat and expand/warp if it is used enough in this condition?


I am just guessing here because I do not know what type of material it is made out of, but it kind of looks like it is made out of a limb type of material which would not be prone to warping anymore than a bows limbs would be but I don't know what it is made of!


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

frankchugga said:


> Strip away the crutches from all the other bows and guess what bow comes in 1st?...............


What crutch is on, say, the Xforce?


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

Chris/AL said:


> Have a link to that test? The test Ive seen here http://www.archeryevolution.com/pdf/2007Face-OffResultsArcheryTalk.pdf has numbers that arent even close to the ones youve posted.


Yes:


http://www.cacciaconlarco.it/public/data/valerio/Bowsite2007H2H.pdf


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

NCTribute said:


> Do you even have a clue what dB ratings even mean? If you did then you would not make your comment about the first five bows. Please look up the significance of a 3 dB difference, then think about your statement.


You're serious? I'll just tell you that I'm very familar with what these ratings mean. If it makes you feel better, you can just include the top 3 listed. No one would be able to tell the difference.


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

Greg / MO said:


> Because those that _claim_ to do 366  don't feel ANYTHING like this bow does. :shade:


What exactly are you implying? I have a 29" Omen that hits 361 on Cracker's own chrono, for instance. I don't think it's much of stretch to believe it would hit 366 with a full inch of added draw (although the listed IBO is 358-366 on that particular bow).

Have you shot this Destroyer to be able to talk about what it feels like? 

Keeping out personal feelings is hard, but necessary for objective discussions.


----------



## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I've gone through the first four pages of posts, and am too tired to continue, and haven't seen any useful information. Lots of pictures of cool-looking parts...

Oh well... I guess I had to have some reason to get back to work... :teeth:


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

Poorguy said:


> Sounds like your talking about Mathews in a Bowtech thread.


Well, to be honest with you, it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference between the two lately !  :darkbeer: :shade:

Oh, and yeah i'm still here , i actually don't mind the look of this new bow, or most of Bowtech's older ones for that matter, i'm quite interested to see and hear how it goes once it gets out into the hands of the general public ! :darkbeer:

Woody


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 11, 2007)

MOC said:


> You're serious? I'll just tell you that I'm very familar with what these ratings mean. If it makes you feel better, you can just include the top 3 listed. No one would be able to tell the difference.


 If you can't tell the difference, maybe you should become FAMILAR with something other than what your an expert at.


----------



## Ben/PA (Feb 26, 2008)

NE1C_my_arrow said:


> Looking back on page 4 of the thread, where the pictures of the risers and complete bow are, that it indeed does look like the same cutout as is on my 82nd with regard to the side plates. I was thrown by the straight line just under the shelf at the top of the cutout, and assumed that it was a wrap around because of that but the 82nd has the same straight line as well.


It looks like the exact cut out on my Air Raid, which means you can purchase side plates, but I'm curious as to if it results in loss of DL like on the AR. Personally, I like the wrap around on the Air Raid and would love to see it on the Destroyer. I liked the other grips as well, I have just found a happy medium with the one on the Air Raid.


----------



## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

3db is basically double ( or half ) depending if it's positive or negitive..... 

So if bow "a" is 3db louder then bow "b", bow "a" is twice as loud as bow "b".


----------



## Burrdock (Nov 7, 2005)

JOE PA said:


> To all the archery engineers who post here on AT, I want to thank you. I will be buying a bow this spring. It is good to know that this Destroyer is many things...
> 
> A. It has too many moving parts.
> B. It will get hopelessly clogged up with dirt.
> ...



Me too.......what is going on????? Looks very innovative to me. Why all the hate and discontent. How can anyone argue the "Binary" issue from a bunch of pic's. Does everyone really think that Bowtech would show their hand if they haven't tested this bow? 

I would be embarrased to bash something I haven't even touch. :embara:

Funny thing is everyone with their negative comments will more than likley never own up when this bow is successful.

I am the Director of Engineering for a manufacturing firm and know whats its like to take crap for a particular design. Me and my guys always take the critisim, but when it works "Were just doing our jobs" and when it doesn't "Were all stupid." Yea, right!!

Everyones an Engineer!!!!


----------



## oneshot (Nov 29, 2002)

*Over 24,500 Hits It's got to be a record! short TIME!*

I Think change scares people! I also think alot people like CHANGE!


----------



## MGH-PA (Jul 8, 2006)

I'm going to keep an open mind (as most should), and see for myself. In reality, it's YOU who makes the choice as to which bow you shoot. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks as long as you're happy with the performance. Personal preference and choice is why there are so many great offerings from bow companies, and not one monopolist company dominating the market.


----------



## oneshot (Nov 29, 2002)

MGH-PA 

That's want I'm Taking About! Well Said!:focus:


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

MOC said:


> Yes:
> 
> 
> http://www.cacciaconlarco.it/public/data/valerio/Bowsite2007H2H.pdf


From the same link you provided.

Noise Level
1. Bowtech Guardian - Category Score: 70
2. Parker Pioneer XP - Category Score: 56
3. Ross Cardiac - Category Score: 45
4. PSE X Force - Category Score: 44
5. Hoyt Vectrix - Category Score: 42
6. Mathews Drenalin - Category Score: 36
7. Fred Bear Truth - Category Score: 32
8. Elite Synergy - Category Score: 18
9. APA Black Mamba X2 - Category Score: 11


----------



## jamesbowman (Jan 29, 2006)

*Bowtech*

That test is from 2007, I think we can do better than that. And as far as testing we know that always doesn't work. Tons of bad limbs from Bowtech, tons of untunable bows from several companies, bows that derail constantly like the GX X-Force and Monster. The real test is when it gets into our hands for about a year or more. These companies now are pushing the limits with everyone trying to be the fastest and newest on the block because that's what sells bows. And because of that pushing some get sent out the door far too quick so they can make sales to a market that says give me something quick. Time will tell whether this thing is a flop or a great bow- Looks like a lot of stuff to gum up or get out of time to me. Here is the real test, throw it in a mudhole, drop it out of a tree, accidently shoot it without an arrow and then see if it still shoots. And yep there are some that will pass it.


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

crackedup said:


> Take the V8 out of a corvette and race a Yugo, see who finishes 1st. Your logic makes sense. Do all manufactures for every product strip things off to make a comparison? No. I tell ya what, I'll put my long bow up against your so called quite bow, lets see which one is quiet. It has no crutches added to it like center pivot, heck I'll even let you keep your rubber string and cable "squids" (aka hush kits) and a cable guard squid. According to your logic this would be a fair test. I take that back, you would have to strip off the cams, cut up the riser, then find someway to attach a string to the limbs, and get rid of the "hush kit".


You mean your long bow that only goes 125 fps that has no cams or wheels? The only similarity between your long bow and a modern bow is they both fling arrows. Shoot a long bow without string leaches and it'll sound like Michael Waddell playing a tune............


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

Woody69 said:


> or even simpler would be for all the fanboys to stop trying to claim their particular favourite company is the inventor of everything, and is so clever and innovative and thinking outside the box ! :darkbeer:
> 
> I like to look at all the new offerings from each company that's why i get on the threads, but like i said it's gets a bit monotonous when everyone wants to claim their preferred company invented everything when most things are just re-worked ideas from the past, someones got to set the record straight before we have a whole bunch of mis-informed fanboys running around trying to tell everyone that their preferred brand invented everything ! :darkbeer:
> 
> ...


Woody....not so sure I ever remember seeing a modern compound have 2 attributes of the destroyer: 1. the cam's bearings not in the cam itself but mounted on the top of the limbs, and 2. the axle mounted on top of the limbs as opposed to it going through the limbs via a drilled hole. I'm not sure what if any advantage or improvement will be realized by doing the aforementioned changes, but they are quite different than anything ever done before.


----------



## Kelsnore (Feb 7, 2005)

I get it. The cable track is much smaller, and closer to the axle. This should be a smoother, easier drawing bow because of it.



Archer Dude said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> There are other bows up to 366 fps out there with simple cams with bearings on a straight axle.
> 
> ...


----------



## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

frankchugga said:


> Woody....not so sure I ever remember seeing a modern compound have 2 attributes of the destroyer: 1. the cam's bearings not in the cam itself but mounted on the top of the limbs, and 2. the axle mounted on top of the limbs as opposed to it going through the limbs via a drilled hole. I'm not sure what if any advantage or improvement will be realized by doing the aforementioned changes, but they are quite different than anything ever done before.


Chugga, don't you remember the PSE magnaglass limbs? mounting block for axles on top of limb


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

frankchugga said:


> Woody....not so sure I ever remember seeing a modern compound have 2 attributes of the destroyer: 1. the cam's bearings not in the cam itself but mounted on the top of the limbs, and 2. the axle mounted on top of the limbs as opposed to it going through the limbs via a drilled hole. I'm not sure what if any advantage or improvement will be realized by doing the aforementioned changes, but they are quite different than anything ever done before.


I'm not sure about the bearings part myself, but i know there have been other bows with the axle mounted on top of the limb, i think Merlin is one of them ? :darkbeer:

You really should do some research about all the supposed "new" technology Frank a lot of it has been done before, maybe not successfully, but it has been tried before, and it's only the newer and better materials that make it possible today, just like it's only the newer string material of today that have almost eliminated string stretching so much and bows continually going out of tune. :darkbeer:

Once again i'm not trying to bash bowtech, i hope this bow is a great success for them, just getting tired of people trying to say bowtech has invented something new and never done before, when it clearly has been tried before ! :darkbeer:

Woody


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

MOC said:


> What crutch is on, say, the Xforce?


It's got those little black spring thingys screwed into the limb tips and a black spring thingy at the end of the cable guard and a black rubber thingy on the cable guard shaft and it's got a rubber gasket between the riser and limb pocket......at least mine does.......


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

ChappyHOYT said:


> From the same link you provided.
> 
> Noise Level
> 1. Bowtech Guardian - Category Score: 70
> ...


That Guardian is one noisy bow............. #6 appears to need more dampeners and suppressors...........:heh:.


----------



## crackedup (Mar 17, 2009)

frankchugga said:


> You mean your long bow that only goes 125 fps that has no cams or wheels? The only similarity between your long bow and a modern bow is they both fling arrows. Shoot a long bow without string leaches and it'll sound like Michael Waddell playing a tune............


So all the cams, the center pivots, the roller guards, the fiberglass, carbon, whatever material limbs. Those are all crutches for speed. According to you, to have a fair test you need to remove all the crutches, then run the tests and see who comes in first. Huh. You also go on to say the only similarities between a long bow and a modern bow is they both fling arrows. Sounds to me like the only similarities between the bows that have so called crutches and your quiet bow is they fling arrows. Cams are different, risers are different, strings are different, materials are different, and designs are different. 

Let’s take it back to the compounds then. Go ahead and remove those so called crutches from these other bow manufactures, but don’t forget, the center pivot is also a crutch to make a modern bow quiet. Ok, so you may say it’s not a crutch, it’s a design. A string stop a design, string suppressors a design, Shox a design, string leaches/squibs a design? All of them are designed to accomplish something. Plus the center pivot crutch/design isn’t similar to the other riser designs. The only thing that is similar is they fling arrows.

What's your favorite tune? I'll start working on it right away


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

trimantrekokc said:


> Chugga, don't you remember the PSE magnaglass limbs? mounting block for axles on top of limb


My bad...............:embara:. Never saw the bow to be honest. Thanks for the info though...gonna go an see if I can find a pic of it.


----------



## MNDan (Nov 24, 2004)

Perhaps you missed the part where they said the design has already been shot 150,000 times without a failure. Guess how long it would take you to shoot it that many times? 



holtzer1 said:


> no, but i can see the cam completely letting loose of the limb. those 2 little contact/attachment points arent going to hold up for very long. mark my words..it WILL come apart


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

ChappyHOYT said:


> From the same link you provided.
> 
> Noise Level
> 1. Bowtech Guardian - Category Score: 70
> ...


Yes, that's there, as well. However, those are not measurements.


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> If you can't tell the difference, maybe you should become FAMILAR with something other than what your an expert at.


This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me? What exactly are you asking/stating? If you can tell the difference, you have fantastic powers of hearing. Good for you. You would be able to tell the first two bows are quieter.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

MOC said:


> Yes, that's there, as well. However, those are not measurements.


They were to the human ear. Last I knew, deer didn't have a decibel meter in their ear.


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

ChappyHOYT said:


> They were to the human ear. Last I knew, deer didn't have a decibel meter in their ear.


Oh, so the sound readings of the human ear were more accurate than the calibrated dosimeter? Of course. Why didn't I think of that.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

MOC said:


> Oh, so the sound readings of the human ear were more accurate than the calibrated dosimeter? Of course. Why didn't I think of that.


From the testers themselves.

We are continuing with the objective sound level testing with the use of a sound level meter. The CEL-490 SLM captures not only dB but also dB at two weighted ratings and seven frequencies. After much learning and discussion around the topic of perceived sound it was apparent to me that to test for dB only would be a mistake. A sound that rates low in dB but is concentrated at a frequency we hear more keenly may actually be more offensive/startling.
An A-weighted reading is one that automatically compensates for the frequency characteristics of the human ear. Since there is no weight rating for the ears of a deer I will refrain from ranking the bows from that perspective. We will, however, rank them according to the A-weighting so they can be compared to the subjective test results. The results are quite interesting!


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

Right. They tested dB level. What's the issue? They furthermore incorporated a dosimeter that's capable of accounting for frequency, making it more valid.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

MOC said:


> Right. They tested dB level. What's the issue? They furthermore incorporated a dosimeter that's capable of accounting for frequency, making it more valid.


I guess if you don't get it by now you never will.


----------



## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

trimantrekokc said:


> Chugga, don't you remember the PSE magnaglass limbs? mounting block for axles on top of limb


Most every 4 wheeler made had axle blocks glued to the top of the limbs.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Woody69 said:


> I'm not sure about the bearings part myself, but i know there have been other bows with the axle mounted on top of the limb, i think Merlin is one of them ? :darkbeer:
> 
> You really should do some research about all the supposed "new" technology Frank a lot of it has been done before, maybe not successfully, but it has been tried before, and it's only the newer and better materials that make it possible today, just like it's only the newer string material of today that have almost eliminated string stretching so much and bows continually going out of tune. :darkbeer:
> 
> ...


 BowTech deliberately made a roller guard bracked designed to flex and reduce riser torque and that is new. Bowtech made a cam axle that is designed to be fixed in rotation with the cam and also work to store more energy and aid in flexing the limbs, allowing more letoff and rotate in bearings not mounted in the cam, but the limbs. BowTech used an aluminum component for the first time in laminated limbs. All new to the industry:star:


----------



## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

walks with a gi said:


> BowTech deliberately made a roller guard bracked designed to flex and reduce riser torque and that is new. Bowtech made a cam axle that is designed to be fixed in rotation with the cam and also work to store more energy and aid in flexing the limbs, allowing more letoff and rotate in bearings not mounted in the cam, but the limbs. BowTech used an aluminum component for the first time in laminated limbs. All new to the industry:star:


I don't know; I saw a guy make a roller guard that did the same thing right here on AT


----------



## oneshot (Nov 29, 2002)

*Walks with a gi*

Looks like alot of these guys must have stay the Holiday Express! And Crow might on the platter on Thanksgiving! I hope they have alot of pepper. LOL

ONLY TIME WILL TELL!!


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

skynight said:


> I don't know; I saw a guy make a roller guard that did the same thing right here on AT


 Yes, I got a phone call about that:zip:


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

oneshot said:


> Looks like alot of these guys must have stay the Holiday Express! And Crow might on the platter on Thanksgiving! I hope they have alot of pepper. LOL
> 
> ONLY TIME WILL TELL!!


 Yep, only time will tell but there a few that have already put in the time:star:


----------



## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

walks with a gi said:


> Yes, I got a phone call about that:zip:


I hope you got a $check$ about that.


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

Bob_Looney said:


> Most every 4 wheeler made had axle blocks glued to the top of the limbs.


That's it!!My old 1978 Martin Cougar II has the axles through a wooden wedge glued to the limb top just as you described.............:darkbeer:. But the huge difference on the destroyer is that the block is bolted to the limb............


----------



## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

How long before the first pictures of the one that breaks off hits AT? 

I hope never but they don't test the mass produced ones 40,000 times. Then we will never hear the end of it.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

I NEED to get my hands on 4 of those bearing blocks so I can start making my own bow of my own design,, and they won't go on the ends of the "limbs"...:secret:


----------



## ijimmy (Jul 2, 2002)

walks with a gi said:


> BowTech used an aluminum component for the first time in laminated limbs. All new to the industry:star:



2 year old tech from pearson


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> How long before the first pictures of the one that breaks off hits AT?
> 
> I hope never but they don't test the mass produced ones 40,000 times. Then we will never hear the end of it.


 What do you see that looks like it will break? I thought the first time I seen the PSE limbs on their new bows that they WOULD break but it dosen't seem to be the norm.. I think the Destroyer looks pretty buller proof myself. The axles look to be an investment cast steel of whatever super alloy maybe like gun parts are made? Also in thinking about the axle, it looks like it both takes up and pays out cabling as compared to only letting out cabling on the small spools on regular Binary cams. Maybe this why the modules look to be on tha smallish side and maybe where the claim of the smooth draw comes from.


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

Gonna buy stock in LOCTITE corp..........I can see where you will need the blue flavor to insure those allen screws don't loosen up from the pillow blocks......


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

ChappyHOYT said:


> I guess if you don't get it by now you never will.


I'd say I'm not the one who doesn't get it. You want the dB levels to mean something different than they do. :embara:


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

MOC said:


> I'd say I'm not the one who doesn't get it. You want the dB levels to mean something different than they do. :embara:


Uh...okay. I don't hunt decibel meters. A deer's ear would be closer to a humans which the tests clearly show that the guardian won. In recent studies, deers' hearing is not much better than ours. I've never seen, or heard, a bow as quiet as centerpivots. Especially from PSE.


----------



## shouseman60 (Feb 20, 2006)

*lol*



monster69 said:


> Sucks when you do it right the first time?????????


the monster doesnt even compare to the old 82nd, and even tho its a copy of a pse, its still not as good as the pse. i sold my monster in a week.. def thumbs down. i had my bro shoot my 82nd and he also sold his monster..


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

ROGUE73 said:


> Laminated high modulus carbon core limbs.


From an engineering standpoint...what does "high modulus" refer to? Anything in particular, or just a cool sounding term without respect to engineering properties of the materials in the limbs?


----------



## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

ChappyHOYT said:


> Uh...okay. I don't hunt decibel meters. A deer's ear would be closer to a humans which the tests clearly show that the guardian won. In recent studies, deers' hearing is not much better than ours. I've never seen, or heard, a bow as quiet as centerpivots. Especially from PSE.


No one hunts decibel meters. However, decibels are the measurement of sound. Really simple. I'm glad you're happy with the sound from the centerpivot bows. They're plenty quiet.


----------



## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> From an engineering standpoint...what does "high modulus" refer to? Anything in particular, or just a cool sounding term without respect to engineering properties of the materials in the limbs?


I'm going to guess it refers to "modulus of elasticity". It is a property of materials that I deal with in my profession, but I can definitely see how it would be applicable here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_modulus


----------



## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

My bad if this question was answered...but I didn't read through all 12 of them.

Are they calling this a "Binary" cam ? It looks like it has split yokes on both ends.....wouldn't that make it a dual cam...or maybe closer to whatever the cam on the Monster is ?

I thought "Binary" cams were slaved, not yoked......


----------



## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

Quoted from earlier in the thread...



> Also---the bow is definitely a "BINARY". The reason it IS a binary is that the eccentric cam axle and the letout groove perform the same function: to feed cable to the opposite cam in letoff.


----------



## frankchugga (Feb 26, 2005)

rattlinman said:


> My bad if this question was answered...but I didn't read through all 12 of them.
> 
> Are they calling this a "Binary" cam ? It looks like it has split yokes on both ends.....wouldn't that make it a dual cam...or maybe closer to whatever the cam on the Monster is ?
> 
> I thought "Binary" cams were slaved, not yoked......


What is different about the destroyer is that the yoke does not terminate on a static axle like a conventional dual cam. Instead the axle end rotates and is slightly offset from that part of the axle that is spline-attached to the cam and in effect is an actual extension of the cam. Therefore, it appears as though both cams are still slaved directly to each other but in a different fashion from previous designs.


----------



## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

500 fps said:


> I'm going to guess it refers to "modulus of elasticity". It is a property of materials that I deal with in my profession, but I can definitely see how it would be applicable here.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_modulus


And knowing the Modulus of the laminates you can use strain gauges to determine the tension and compression loads on those laminates within the limb.


----------



## Chris/AL (Oct 3, 2009)

MOC said:


> Oh, so the sound readings of the human ear were more accurate than the calibrated dosimeter? Of course. Why didn't I think of that.


Thanks for the link, the difference in measurements bewtween the 2 bow comparisons is surprising. Did you look at the one I linked?


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

What does the "S" on the cam stand for? I'm guessing it's not Strother:mg:


----------



## Chris/AL (Oct 3, 2009)

It looks like the Bowtech logo to me. 

Oh nevermind, found another pic that shows it a bit better...not the logo.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

Bob_Looney said:


> And knowing the Modulus of the laminates you can use strain gauges to determine the tension and compression loads on those laminates within the limb.


Yes I know. That's why I scratch my head when "high modulus" is used in conjunction with "carbon".


----------



## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

ChappyHOYT said:


> What does the "S" on the cam stand for? I'm guessing it's not Strother:mg:


it says "binary"


----------



## bow duke ny (Oct 15, 2006)

I wasnt going to buy another bow next year , but I think I will be leaving a deposit soon on a 2010 BOWTECH ,BABY !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 11, 2007)

frankchugga said:


> Gonna buy stock in LOCTITE corp..........I can see where you will need the blue flavor to insure those allen screws don't loosen up from the pillow blocks......


 Now that i see a close-up, one thing they should do is put a little rubber grommet thingy between the cable end bearing and the mount, it would look better than the empty space there now.


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

walks with a gi said:


> BowTech deliberately made a roller guard bracked designed to flex and reduce riser torque and that is new. Bowtech made a cam axle that is designed to be fixed in rotation with the cam and also work to store more energy and aid in flexing the limbs, allowing more letoff and rotate in bearings not mounted in the cam, but the limbs. BowTech used an aluminum component for the first time in laminated limbs. All new to the industry:star:


I thought you made the first flexing roller guard ??? i have seen a few of your posts talking about the one you made before the Destroyer was even released ??? 

I think the axle on the destroyer would work in a "*SIMILAR*" (notice it says similar, not identical) fashion to the AVS system on the monster, and someone else said that apparently Ross had a "*SIMILAR*" axle once as well (i'm not sure if that is true or not about the Ross though) ???

While the aluminium layer "*MIGHT*" be new, laminated limbs themselves are not. (I don't know if anyone has ever tried an aluminium layer before, i don't think i have ever heard of it before)

I'm not trying to take anything away from Bowtech and their new bows, but some people keep saying that no other company has "EVER DONE ANYTHING LIKE IT BEFORE", all i'm trying to say is "*YES*" other companies have done "*SIMILAR*" things like it before, that's all ! :darkbeer:

When the other companies tried it, it may not have worked out so well, but maybe Bowtech has figured out how to make it all work, who knows, only time will tell that ! :thumbs_up :darkbeer:

So has anyone got one yet, i really am interested to see how it works and what people think about it once it gets out into the public's hands ? :darkbeer: 

Woody


----------



## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

This thread has gotten more views then the Erin Andrews video....:shade:


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*You're gonna want to see this....*

Destroyer "Overdrive Binary" Cam and Axle System.

High Speed video showing Axle Rotation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEpF5A5Dj9g&feature=channel


----------



## oneshot (Nov 29, 2002)

DeepFried,


You notice that too! Same guys just can't get along LOL
But the views just keep Coming & Coming How many hits are we up now??
3 or 4 weeks or sooner? We will all know how it Shoots! I can't WAIT !!!


----------



## Riverghost (Oct 11, 2004)

Looks smooth as butter to me :darkbeer:


----------



## fletched (May 10, 2006)

When a bow get over 525 hits on this forum, it is proof the this bow is going to be a top seller. It is proof that with all the bashing that it is making a lot of people nervous because they want one but are too proud to admit it. I have read a lot of stupid things posted on this thread and you know who you are. This bow isn't even out yet and all these "experts" already have it tested and rated. It won't be long before these "experts" start giving their professional opinion on the 2011 bows before they are invented. 

Never argue with an idiot, they will take you down to their level and beat you at their game.


----------



## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

fletched said:


> When a bow get over 525 hits on this forum, it is proof the this bow is going to be a top seller. It is proof that with all the bashing that it is making a lot of people nervous because they want one but are too proud to admit it. I have read a lot of stupid things posted on this thread and you know who you are. This bow isn't even out yet and all these "experts" already have it tested and rated. It won't be long before these "experts" start giving their professional opinion on the 2011 bows before they are invented.
> 
> Never argue with an idiot, they will take you down to their level and beat you at their game.


Several good points!


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

ROGUE73 said:


> Destroyer "Overdrive Binary" Cam and Axle System.
> 
> High Speed video showing Axle Rotation.
> 
> ...


I want to see high speed/slow mo video of the flexguard after release. That's gonna be the make or break for me.


----------



## zwalls (Apr 16, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> Destroyer "Overdrive Binary" Cam and Axle System.
> 
> High Speed video showing Axle Rotation.
> 
> ...


interesting video to watch the way the axle rotates!!hopefully I'll be testing one in a week or so!!


----------



## zwalls (Apr 16, 2006)

frankchugga said:


> Gonna buy stock in LOCTITE corp..........I can see where you will need the blue flavor to insure those allen screws don't loosen up from the pillow blocks......


I agree Frank!hopefully they thought of that already!!


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

ChappyHOYT said:


> What does the "S" on the cam stand for? I'm guessing it's not Strother:mg:



It's "swirl" design in the Binary Overdrive logo.


----------



## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

Chupacabras said:


> I thought it was supposed to be a sealed axle. Looks like it has potential to collect debris inside the enclosure.


Looks more like potentail for wear on squared edges and tolerance problems. So much for the KISS principle. When I hunt I want it simple with less parts and problems.


----------



## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

john09040 said:


> Looks like there onto something really innovative. Wow.


Looks more like a way around the Mathews Patent. More of a copy then innovation.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Looks can be decieving


----------



## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

Billincamo said:


> Looks more like potentail for wear on squared edges and tolerance problems. So much for the KISS principle. When I hunt I want it simple with less parts and problems.



The cam systems are no where a like with the BT cam being binary and the Mathews still being just a different form of 2 cam system.

Also there have been bearing issues with the AVS so lets not talk ill of a design until it has a chance to prove it self


----------



## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

rogue73 said:


> here it is....destroyer 2010....long pocket design...hard core limbs....flx-guard cable containment system.....binary overdrive system....


omg i got to have it !!! Not!


----------



## pa.hunter (Jan 3, 2008)

*i see that the new bow is*

going to be a hit , im a bowtech fan and diamond . i have not found a newer bow that i like, tried (air raid) and (admiral) did not like either bow. i have 2 tributes and have not found a better hunting bow to fit me to date , maybe this will be the one ?


----------



## RxBowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

ROGUE73 said:


> http://www.bowtecharchery.com/shop/index.php/t-shirts/this-ain-t-your-daddy-s-bow-t-shirt.html


Kewl! Royalties coming my way :lol:


----------



## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

RxBowhunter said:


> Kewl! Royalties coming my way :lol:



I'm pretty sure it would be the other way around since they've used that tag line since 1999.


----------



## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

*kind similar....just sayin...*


----------



## avidarchers (Nov 20, 2008)

*2010 Bowtech and Diamond Bows*

All of the specifications for the 2010 Bowtech and Diamond model bows are on avidarchers website right now - hot off the press. It looks like it will be a banner year next year for Bowtech once again.


----------



## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

avidarchers said:


> All of the specifications for the 2010 Bowtech and Diamond model bows are on avidarchers website right now - hot off the press. It looks like it will be a banner year next year for Bowtech once again.


Cool. Looks like the Admiral and the Sentinel are the FLX treatment as well as well as the Black Ice and the Iceman w/Diamond. I guess that answers a question brought up somewhere in one of these threads as to whether the flex roller guard was going to be carried over to other models within the line.


----------



## fibonacci4u (Jun 11, 2002)

*Similarities?*

Look at Martin's 2010 Shadowcat. Can you say Constitution? Hey, manufacturers are constantly sharing technology. The bows are bound to look similar! -- Ike


----------



## High_Speed (Oct 9, 2009)

So the Admiral and Sentinel are getting the FLX cable roller, but the Captain isn't? That's odd... Might as well just buy an 09 model captain on closeout....


----------



## MNDan (Nov 24, 2004)

They must be pretty confident in the advantages of the new FLX to put it on so many of their bows at once. Nice!


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

JWT said:


>


I'd rather have the one piece riser though.


----------



## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

ChappyHOYT said:


> I'd rather have the one piece riser though.


To each his own but all the one piece riser adds is cost.


----------



## avidarchers (Nov 20, 2008)

*Draw Length*

The draw length of the Destroyer 350 is adjustable 25"-30"
You can check out all the specs. on my web site just type in avidarchers in your search engine


----------



## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

ChappyHOYT said:


> I'd rather have the one piece riser though.


You know, I got to thinking about your comment on your preference, and you may be miss informed about the differences. The modular riser is machined from solid block aluminum and is stronger and perfectly straight. Extruded risers are just not as straight.


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

fibonacci4u said:


> Look at Martin's 2010 Shadowcat. Can you say Constitution? Hey, manufacturers are constantly sharing technology. The bows are bound to look similar! -- Ike


I think the Shadowcat looks more like the Alien-X just with a straighter riser than it does a Constitution ???

Woody


----------



## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

fletched said:


> When a bow get over 525 hits on this forum, it is proof the this bow is going to be a top seller. It is proof that with all the bashing that it is making a lot of people nervous because they want one but are too proud to admit it. I have read a lot of stupid things posted on this thread and you know who you are. This bow isn't even out yet and all these "experts" already have it tested and rated. It won't be long before these "experts" start giving their professional opinion on the 2011 bows before they are invented.
> 
> Never argue with an idiot, they will take you down to their level and beat you at their game.


What do you mean? Ive been shooting this bow since the first thread started...virtually along with everbody else...

I would have to agree. I like to look, speculate, try to decipher things....but in reality time will tell. My mind will be made up when I get to shoot it. And my complete opinion made 6-12 months after it hits the shelves. I for one am pretty optimistic and pumped about the design.


----------



## fletched (May 10, 2006)

Billincamo said:


> Looks more like potentail for wear on squared edges and tolerance problems. So much for the KISS principle. When I hunt I want it simple with less parts and problems.


Then shoot a recurve or longbow.


----------



## NCTribute (Jan 28, 2007)

*Serious, you bet.*



MOC said:


> You're serious? I'll just tell you that I'm very familar with what these ratings mean. If it makes you feel better, you can just include the top 3 listed. No one would be able to tell the difference.


I have worked as an Engineer designing heavy equipment for 25 years and I can assure you that you can tell the difference of 2 dB. Sound power doubles with a 3 dB difference, perceived sound level doubles with a 6 to 10 dB difference. 2 dB difference is easily noticed, as I can attest to from performing many sound tests.

So just where do you get your information?


----------



## ScottThornley (Feb 10, 2009)

So does the Destroyer use a different module for each draw length, or does it use the same system as the 2009 bows where you simply rotate the draw length module?


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

ScottThornley said:


> So does the Destroyer use a different module for each draw length, or does it use the same system as the 2009 bows where you simply rotate the draw length module?



The Destroyers (340 & 350) have rotating modules so you can adjust the draw length without changing mods or using press. (Same as 09's) :shade:


----------



## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

*Not that I don't like the AlienX............*



JWT said:


> You know, I got to thinking about your comment on your preference, and you may be miss informed about the differences. The modular riser is machined from solid block aluminum and is stronger and perfectly straight. Extruded risers are just not as straight.


Yep, but the only risers we have ever had break in our shop is from Martin too. :embara:


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

mdewitt71 said:


> Yep, but the only risers we have ever had break in our shop is from Martin too. :embara:


Was it the cast Saber riser, or was it something else ?

Woody


----------



## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

Here you go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWi7c8OeeU&feature=channel

About the only thing I don't like about this bow (just by seeing pictures on the net) is that at full draw, it seems that the flexible cable guard will allow the cables to be way into your sight picture (see them pass through the pin guard while looking through your peep). This is a major pet peeve for alot of folks.

I never noticed it on my Tribute, but DO notice it on my Captain.

-ZA





ChappyHOYT said:


> I want to see high speed/slow mo video of the flexguard after release. That's gonna be the make or break for me.


----------



## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

JWT said:


>


not a whole lot of similarites there if we put 5 other bows up next to these 2 they would all have the same similarities such as risers cams and limbs lol


----------



## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

mdewitt71 said:


> Yep, but the only risers we have ever had break in our shop is from Martin too. :embara:


Yep but tell the rest of the story....like woody said it was a cast ONE piece riser on a saber... 


And Archerykid.....really...


----------



## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

JWT said:


> You know, I got to thinking about your comment on your preference, and you may be miss informed about the differences. The modular riser is machined from solid block aluminum and is stronger and perfectly straight. Extruded risers are just not as straight.


Can you explain how that solid block got into its block shape?

And yes, extrusions are just as straight. After all, the extrusions are machined to exacting tolerances during the machining processes.


----------



## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

ZA206 said:


> Here you go...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWi7c8OeeU&feature=channel
> 
> ...



That video also confirms that the Octane Trip Wire rest doesn't bounce back up and hit the vanes. I say this because I've seen some concerns about it in the past.


----------



## champus (May 28, 2006)

*extruded risers*

:embara:Question to the experts/insiders.:
Which company is able to press riser profiles with more than 30"?


----------



## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

ROGUE73 said:


> what part of BINARY don't you get?.....



I didn't think binary cams had split cables?


----------



## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

stehawk said:


> I didn't think binary cams had split cables?


it is a different design but still a binary. when one cam stops the other stops just like the regular binary design.


----------



## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

monster69 said:


> Looks like another shot in the dark, by a company that is still trying to get it right.:ukey: What the hell was wrong with last years models and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that?:darkbeer:


spoken like a true maffhews fan boy.:secret:


----------



## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

parkerbows said:


> it is a different design but still a binary. when one cam stops the other stops just like the regular binary design.


Kool---thanks:darkbeer:


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

ZA206 said:


> Here you go...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWi7c8OeeU&feature=channel
> 
> ...


Actually the camera is to the right of the string which makes the cables appear to be in the sight picture but to me it appear that if you were behind the string, the cables would still be behind the riser. I do know that there is zero issue with vane clearance. We have been reassured that Blazers could be used on a large aluminum shaft such as a 2614 with no clearance issue with cock vane up or down. (Putting one vane directly in).


----------



## ROGUE73 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Less than 24 Hours to Amateur Hour.......*

Looks like Amateur Hour is about to begin again....in less than 24 hrs....

Something about a Waffle Iron being introduced???.....:mg:


----------



## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

ROGUE73 said:


> Looks like Amateur Hour is about to begin again....in less than 24 hrs....
> 
> Something about a Waffle Iron being introduced???.....:mg:



Old news .....ukey:


----------



## bow duke ny (Oct 15, 2006)

Looking forward to it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## Sith of Archery (Nov 5, 2008)

destroyer looks like a great hunting bow... blind and stand......fast...Hope they come out with a great target bow!


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

JWT said:


> To each his own but all the one piece riser adds is cost.


And strength.


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

ChappyHOYT said:


> And strength.


From what i have read about the multi-piece risers the Martin makes, is that they are stronger than a one piece riser because the Steel pins and bolts that are used are way stronger than the Aluminium that the riser is made out of, so theoretically the riser itself should fail before any of the joins do ! :darkbeer:

Woody


----------



## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

ChappyHOYT said:


> And strength.



How many failures have you seen? Even if there was a strength problem---100% lifetime warranty on the riser kinda evens that arguement out. :darkbeer:


----------



## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

JWT said:


>


Except Bowtech doesn't put cheesy little green plastic pieces
in the riser to make them look cheap.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Woody69 said:


> From what i have read about the multi-piece risers the Martin makes, is that they are stronger than a one piece riser because the Steel pins and bolts that are used are way stronger than the Aluminium that the riser is made out of, so theoretically the riser itself should fail before any of the joins do ! :darkbeer:
> 
> Woody


I don't like theories. I'll take proven solid limbs.



stehawk said:


> How many failures have you seen? Even if there was a strength problem---100% lifetime warranty on the riser kinda evens that arguement out. :darkbeer:


None, because there aren't many martins around here. I'd rather have a bow where I don't have to use the warranty. I didn't bring this topic up, one of you Martin guys did. In a bowtech thread nonetheless.


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

highwaynorth said:


> Except Bowtech doesn't put cheesy little green plastic pieces
> in the riser to make them look cheap.


 Ha, the 340 has more of an X than the Alien X...


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

ChappyHOYT said:


> I don't like theories. I'll take proven solid limbs. I Mean risers
> 
> 
> 
> None, because there aren't many martins around here. I'd rather have a bow where I don't have to use the warranty. I didn't bring this topic up, one of you Martin guys did. In a bowtech thread nonetheless.


I meant risers.


----------



## RobVos (May 23, 2002)

I have only breezed thru all this:

Both this bow and the Mathews bow are essentially doiing the same thing that the original Monster bow (you know the one with the pivoting recurve limb extensions) does -- shifts the anchor point of the cables by atttaching it to cam rotation (those recurve limb looking extensions on the Monster act as larg cams.)
Just pointing that out.


----------



## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

walks with a gi said:


> Ha, the 340 has more of an X than the Alien X...


I agree. To me it actually looks better too! I have never shot the Martin AlienX but everyone says that it is the bomb. I will be trying this bow. Very interested in its design. Congrats to a Co. going out on a limb(pun intended). I'll bet that this bow has been TESTED, TESTED, and TESTED. I bet that Bowtech has a a great bow here.


----------



## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

Poorguy said:


> Actually the camera is to the right of the string which makes the cables appear to be in the sight picture but to me it appear that if you were behind the string, the cables would still be behind the riser. I do know that there is zero issue with vane clearance. We have been reassured that Blazers could be used on a large aluminum shaft such as a 2614 with no clearance issue with cock vane up or down. (Putting one vane directly in).


The 340 Destroyer is the only bow that interests me so far for 2009. How is it's draw compared to the 2009 Captain?

Oh yea... and when are they gonna be available in lefty?

-ZA


----------



## AustinL911 (Aug 20, 2008)

highwaynorth said:


> Except Bowtech doesn't put cheesy little green plastic pieces
> in the riser to make them look cheap.


Didn't BT change all the bracing geometry in the Destroyers? I know they don't look like the Aliens anymore.


----------



## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

AustinL911 said:


> Didn't BT change all the bracing geometry in the Destroyers? I know they don't look like the Aliens anymore.


Wow you need to think who was around first


----------



## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

AustinL911 said:


> Didn't BT change all the bracing geometry in the Destroyers? I know they don't look like the Aliens anymore.


There are two Destroyer models, the 350 and 340. The 340 is the one that somewhat resembles the Alien with regard to the riser. The 350 is different and doesn't look anything like the Alien riser. 

I think that may be what you're thinking of.


----------



## lyle.d.adkisson (Aug 1, 2005)

send that thing to mbates63 and my self out here in the sand box and we'll put it through its paces for ya'll. that will give a true testimonial about the dirt and grit issue!


----------



## Crackers (Mar 9, 2004)

To me the Alien and BT don't look a like. I have sold and set up a ton of Aliens and the cut outs are ...well just different


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

ChappyHOYT said:


> I don't like theories. I'll take proven solid limbs.


I know you meant risers, and just as well, because we wouldn't want to get started on a Bowtech limb conversation !  :darkbeer:

How long have the multi-piece risers been used for now ??? i think it is at least 2 years (not sure) ???

How long does something have to be around for, with no failures, before you consider it "*Proven*" ???

Woody


----------



## bowteckpa (Oct 15, 2009)

Its an Alien


----------



## fletched (May 10, 2006)

Regaurding risers and the machining process. Aluminum has a grain to it, a lot like wood. A lot of companies have their aluminum pre-shaped during the process. If a block or extrusion is made to resemble the riser, the grain will be less disrupted in the machining process. It is a faster way to produce risers without taking away any strengths. I am not a machinest but have read up on it some. Can anyone elaborate on the machining process of both types, block vs. extrusion?


----------



## AustinL911 (Aug 20, 2008)

Crackers said:


> Wow you need to think who was around first


A do wha?



NE1C_my_arrow said:


> There are two Destroyer models, the 350 and 340. The 340 is the one that somewhat resembles the Alien with regard to the riser. The 350 is different and doesn't look anything like the Alien riser.
> 
> *I think that may be what you're thinking of*.



It is; my mistake.


Either way, I foresee a D350 in my future. :darkbeer:


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Woody69 said:


> I know you meant risers, and just as well, because we wouldn't want to get started on a Bowtech limb conversation !  :darkbeer:
> 
> How long have the multi-piece risers been used for now ??? i think it is at least 2 years (not sure) ???
> 
> ...


More then two years.


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

ChappyHOYT said:


> More then two years.


So i guess that means we can all keep continuing to talk about Bowtechs bad/exploding limbs for at least another 2 years, even if the new limbs don't have a single failure in that time ??? 

And all the other new bits they have brought out on the 2010 bows, can't be considered any good until at least 2 years have passed without any failures ??? 

Woody


----------



## BradleyP (Dec 7, 2003)

I don't understand why Bowtech didn't make the 340 and 350 risers look the same. Call me crazy but Id rather own the 350 only because I don't like the "look" of the 340 riser.


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Woody69 said:


> So i guess that means we can all keep continuing to talk about Bowtechs bad/exploding limbs for at least another 2 years, even if the new limbs don't have a single failure in that time ???
> 
> And all the other new bits they have brought out on the 2010 bows, can't be considered any good until at least 2 years have passed without any failures ???
> 
> Woody


That's up to you. I've never had one explode so I wouldn't be able to say anything about it.


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

ChappyHOYT said:


> That's up to you. I've never had one explode so I wouldn't be able to say anything about it.


No, it's not up to me, *you're* the one that said something has to be around for more than 2 years before *you* consider it proven ??? 

And just because you *might* not have had a Bowtech limb failure doesn't mean it never happened to plenty of other people, Hmmm something about a recall comes to mind ??? :mg:

So do you own a Bowtech or is it a Hoyt like your username suggests, not that it really matters because we can apply the same 2+ year rule to Hoyt's new carbon riser as well, it can be considered nothing more than crap like the old HCA ones until at least 2 years have passed without a single failure ???

So maybe we should all be buying 2007/2008 bows instead of 2010 bows because unless they have been around for at least 2 years without a single failure, they're all unproven ??? 

Have a good one !  :darkbeer:

Woody


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Woody69 said:


> No, it's not up to me, *you're* the one that said something has to be around for more than 2 years before *you* consider it proven ???
> 
> And just because you *might* not have had a Bowtech limb failure doesn't mean it never happened to plenty of other people, Hmmm something about a recall comes to mind ??? :mg:
> 
> ...



No, you've been undermining this bow in this thread from the start. Who cares if it's old tech. Bowtech has made it work. But I will wait and see if it works for others and check it out myself. Not just because it's a Bowtech. I will also be checking out Elite. The Z28 has been a proven, great bow so that's what I'm looking at also. 

I never owned a general during the recall, but kudos to BT for doing the recall instead of sticking it to the customers. It made them look bad, but their honesty was refreshing. If they would've only did that with the Center Pivot problems last year.

I'm glad that you love your Martin's so much that you have to defend them in a Bowtech thread. It was one of their staff shooters that compared it to an Alien. Again, enjoy your Martins. They're just not for me.


----------



## Woody69 (Feb 17, 2007)

ChappyHOYT said:


> No, you've been undermining this bow in this thread from the start. Who cares if it's old tech. Bowtech has made it work. But I will wait and see if it works for others and check it out myself. Not just because it's a Bowtech. I will also be checking out Elite. The Z28 has been a proven, great bow so that's what I'm looking at also.
> 
> I never owned a general during the recall, but kudos to BT for doing the recall instead of sticking it to the customers. It made them look bad, but their *honesty* was refreshing. If they would've only did that with the Center Pivot problems last year.
> 
> I'm glad that you love your Martin's so much that you have to defend them in a Bowtech thread. It was one of their staff shooters that compared it to an Alien. Again, enjoy your Martins. They're just not for me.


If telling the truth, and not just blindly following the marketing hype is undermining, then i guess you're right ??? (all i have done is say that most of it is old tech and has been tried before, maybe not very successfully, but had been tried before, unlike all the fanboys and marketing hype that are saying it's all *new* and *never been done before*) maybe Bowtech has figured out how to make it all work, and good for them if they have, it looks like a nice bow, and i hope it's a big success for them, but don't expect everyone to just blindly follow the hype about it being *new* and *never done before* when some of us know that most of the tech *has been tried before*, even if it wasn't very successful ! :darkbeer:

Who cares if it's old tech......... well clearly Bowtech and their fanboys do, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to claim it as so revolutionary, and innovative, and *never been tried before*, when most of it clearly *has been tried before,* (*which is all i was trying to say*) if they didn't care they would openly and *Honestly* say that it's old tech, but with a few tweaks that they think will make it all work better than any previous attempts have , once again, maybe Bowtech has figured out how to make it all work, and good for them if they have, it looks like a nice bow, and i hope it's a big success for them ! :darkbeer:

Not so much defending Martin, just telling the truth again about the multi-piece riser, *you* said that a one piece riser was stronger than the the multi-piece, i was just pointing out that the joins in the multi-piece are in fact stronger than a one piece because of the steel pins and bolts/screws used are stronger than the Aluminium that the rest of the riser is made from, so the Aluminum in the rest of the riser would fail before the steel pins and bolts/screws in the join do ! :darkbeer:

There's no need to get all bent out shape over it, why bother even putting these threads up if people are only allowed to say nice, praising, fanboy things, if Bowtech or their fanboys can't handle any comments that aren't 100% positive and complimentary, then perhaps they shouldn't be posting these threads on an open internet forum to start with ??? 

There's never going to be a product from any company that absolutely 100% of the people are going to love, just like you said, Martins aren't for you, and that's fine (not that i'm bashing this bow either, as i already said twice, it looks quite nice, and i hope it's a big success for Bowtech) to me the 340 does look a bit like an Alien-X, but that's not a bad thing, because i like the look of the Alien-X, so naturally i'm going to like the look of the 340 as well ! :darkbeer:

Have a good day !  :darkbeer:

Woody


----------



## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

Woody69 said:


> If telling the truth, and not just blindly following the marketing hype is undermining, then i guess you're right ??? (all i have done is say that most of it is old tech and has been tried before, maybe not very successfully, but had been tried before, unlike all the fanboys and marketing hype that are saying it's all *new* and *never been done before*) maybe Bowtech has figured out how to make it all work, and good for them if they have, it looks like a nice bow, and i hope it's a big success for them, but don't expect everyone to just blindly follow the hype about it being *new* and *never done before* when some of us know that most of the tech *has been tried before*, even if it wasn't very successful ! :darkbeer:
> 
> Who cares if it's old tech......... well clearly Bowtech and their fanboys do, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to claim it as so revolutionary, and innovative, and *never been tried before*, when most of it clearly *has been tried before,* (*which is all i was trying to say*) if they didn't care they would openly and *Honestly* say that it's old tech, but with a few tweaks that they think will make it all work better than any previous attempts have , once again, maybe Bowtech has figured out how to make it all work, and good for them if they have, it looks like a nice bow, and i hope it's a big success for them ! :darkbeer:
> 
> ...


:cow::elch::dancing::BrownBear::flypig::llama::blah:

I don't know what else to say so here's a cow, a moose, a banana, spinning bear, and a flying pig for you.


----------



## oneshot (Nov 29, 2002)

*Who care's What it looks like??*

XXX- said it shoots like a dream! I think Bowtech needs to expand their workforce, too get these bows in are Hands! The Demand is going to be great! Kudo's R&D Great Job!


----------

