# Complacency



## Soaker (Jun 27, 2008)

"I believe that complacency has caused us here in the U.S. to loose a lot of our Constitutional rights over the last 50 years..."

Can you be specific? What constitutional rights have we lost? 


"not to mention our 2nd Amendment rights, are largely avoided in the name of political correctness."

What do you mean by "avoided"? Sorry, but the statement seems to be lacking context. 


Reduction of 2nd amendment rights in this country are now largely off limits to politicians as the American public and specific lobby groups have made that clear. I hear virtually no talk about gun "control" these days (at the federal level). I don't disagree with much of your post but I do not see where there are specific pushes at the federal level to control gun ownership. Feel free to provide some recent and specific examples if I am wrong on that point. 

I am in support of the 2nd amendment and understand that it needs to be protected as there are plenty of people out there who would love to see a ban on guns and hunting (hunting to a lesser extent I think), thought they are not in the majority. But I do see a lot of misinformation and over reaction to perceived attacks on 2nd amendment rights. All this just IMHO.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

_This is the sort of thing I'm talking about.........2nd Amendment rights are constantly under attack. If they can take over healthcare and raise our taxes [unconstitutional] , they'l take away our guns and hunting rights. Look at the politicians on the left in D.C., they make no secret that they're Socialist. Very clear_.


Barack Obama on Gun Control 
Democratic nomine for President; Junior Senator (IL) 




Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws 
Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual’s right to bear arms?
A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can’t constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don’t have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets. 

Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008 

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban 
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, “No, my writing wasn’t on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.”
Actually, Obama’s writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama’s campaign said, “Sen. Obama didn’t fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn’t reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn’t reflect his views.” 

Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008 

Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok 
Q: You said recently, “I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns.” But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you’ve said that it’s constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions. 

Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008 

Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing 
Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
A: I don’t think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You’ve got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you’ve got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets. 

Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008 

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month 
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns. 
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007 

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers 
Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, “I didn’t find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms.“

It wasn’t until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police. 

Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007 

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities 
Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?
A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we’ve had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We’ve got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We’ve got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren’t loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they’re not made in our communities. There aren’t any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who’ve been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That’s a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don’t have it right now. 

Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007 

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality 
I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer’s lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there’s a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair. 
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006 

Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban 
KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that’s good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into. 
OBAMA: Let’s be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban. 

Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004 

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions 
Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998 

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. 
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would: 
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices


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## Soaker (Jun 27, 2008)

Now that's more like it. Gotta gimme some time to run through this though. Thx.


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## badomen (Jan 7, 2010)

Here's to you Curve :darkbeer: We need more people out there doing the leg work and research such as yourself because the left wing media certainly will not do it.


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## Ayastigi (Jul 9, 2007)

*Idea*

Curve1 for President! I agree atleast on everything Curve1 has noted so far. If the foundation to his political beliefs are based on the same principles set forth by the founders of this great nation then I tip my hat to you Curve1. To many people want to bend, change, interpret the constitution. Call it what you will but it all equals the same thing and that is not America as it was meant to be.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm not a Constitutional lawyer, but I do know our founders meant what they put down on paper.
Straying from original intent really started from the beginning, but not to the extent that we see now. The beauty of a *Republic* form of goverment[which is what our country was founded as], is that folks can have different opinions which is a good thing, but in a Republic form of goverment the legislators are not *suppose *to pass any legislation that violates a citizens right granted by our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
A Democracy is simply MOB RULE, and with the Mob Rule type of situation anyone is subject to potential harm. By not abiding by what our founders set forth we end up with what we have now.....anarchy.
Activist judges legislating from the bench has also reeked havoc on our nation.
Really the main function of our goverment was intended to supply a strong defense, enforce the judicial system.......laws that protect all of Society, laws against murder [of any human life form], theft, ect. Basic laws that benefit everyone.
It is true our goverment was founded on Biblical priniples...but without forcing those beliefs on anyone......in other words _acknowledging_ God but_ not mandating_ any particular religion. 
Violating our rights is not something that's happened overnight.....I believe one big turning of the tide was with the 16th Amendment [in 1918]....the Federal Income Tax Amendment.


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## turkeycallmaker (Jun 10, 2010)

It is a scary thing to see what the current administration is doing to grab power. 
What rights have we lost, uh, let's see... when was the last time you heard a prayer at the beginning of the school day over the PA system in the classrooms? Hmmm, when was the last time you heard a prayer before a public high school football game? 
How about a national health care plan that will penalize you for not buying a product endorsed by the current administration? (health insurance)
Let's see, how about a push to make it against the law to express a Biblical view of the acts of homosexuality? 
Hmmm, maybe people being jailed for quietly carrying picket signs on a public sidewalk in front of an abortion clinic?
It's kind of a "can't see the forest for all of the trees" kind of thing. There are a lot of well meaning folks that have sat back for too long doing nothing but complaining about the state of affairs. It's time to get involved. November 2nd is coming up. Be informed about where politicians in your state/districts stand on issues.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Right on Turkeycallmaker!

"_The only thing needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing_"

We've been in a battle for years to keep our Constitutional rights. Granted, the present administration is by far the most Socialist/Marxist in our history. Both of our two major parties have trampled on our rights.......and it sarted before I was born [1960].
Conservatism ...._real conservatism_, simply means that a person believes in upholding our Constitution and Bill of Rights. It means that an individual that is conservative believes the goverment should not legislate where they have *no authority*.
There has *never* been any nation...ever...that has prospered by adopting the Socilaist or Marxist form of goverment. That's not my opinion, it's simply a _fact._
There are a lot of things today that are legal, and maybe have been amended to the Constitution, but the problem is that the legislators never had the right to pass the legislation to begin with.

Turkycaller is right....we can change a lot with our vote and calling our representatvies. Of course a lot of our problem has been Judges _legislating from the bench _and not simply _interpreting the law._ We must boot out the majority of those in power with our vote.
I'm a member of the Constitution Party because it's the only party that still stands on the Constitution. That doesn't mean I never vote Repulican or Democrat, it means I dont vote for anyone that professes to uphold the Constitution and then turns around and ignores it.


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