# smartphone mount to bow w\ range finder and video capability



## D-Cal (Jul 25, 2010)

Sounds fascinating, will watch for progress. I assume you have programming abilities in other languages? Java is like C++ without pointers or memory management.


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

That would be great! How are you mounting the phone to your bow? Pics would be nice!


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## Sideways (Feb 13, 2006)

Sounds awesome, the sky is the limit!


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## vnvgunner (Nov 7, 2009)

Sounds interesting, just wonder how the phone will hold up to repeated shock.


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## W.IL.BowHunter (Jul 10, 2010)

Dude that is awsome great idea! I would love to be able to use my BlackBerry as a range finder and video my hunt as well it sure would be lighter then taking along a video camera and a rangefinder can't wait to see some pics keep me posted !


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## Raf Morgan (Jun 18, 2010)

Great idea! I´m not sure about using it as a sight, since you would have to design a great support for it, but I guess it will work great as both a range-finder and camera! Make sure to posts some pictures when it´s ready!

You could also use it to record sounds of deer, elk and other hunting animals, to use it later as a bait.

And don´t forget to put it in quiet mode when hunting...


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## quick94stang (Aug 16, 2009)

awesome idea maybe then i wont have to buck up for a range finder


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## tannertt (Jun 15, 2007)

Sounds like a great idea just be sure to check you local laws for legality


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

D-Cal said:


> Sounds fascinating, will watch for progress. I assume you have programming abilities in other languages? Java is like C++ without pointers or memory management.


http://forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com/
Sign up for email notifications for Updates...

I learned Basic a long time ago and really haven't applied it(forgot it but understand the principle)...
There are all kinds of Java tutorials online that start from scratch. I have one that I am getting ready to learn before developing the app.
A month ago Google started a waiting list for application building with their "App developer" that is much like Scratch(Apple) for non programmers. It let's you build apps without code. I considered this route but decided ultimately to learn Java so that I can tweak the application and branch off of it. 
So to answer your question, I don't know other programming language and am a neophyte when it comes to HTML but I am not working right now and have the time on my hands.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Perry24 said:


> That would be great! How are you mounting the phone to your bow? Pics would be nice!


The parts are on order. I expect them by early next week.
My first goal is to mount the camera on my bow since archery season is coming and I am\will be busy checking trail cam pics and scouting as well as getting my wife and stepson ready for the hunting season as a whole. It will only be used to take video this season since I don't want to modify my rig and I will be in process of making the application. 
There are so many different ways to mount a camera to your bow. I considered making a one package fits all that would be super cheap and well built with vibration dampening. I went with parts that fit my existing rig that can be removed quickly and require no modification to the bow.
To function as a sight the mount has to be able to center the lens over the arrow.This will require a more adjustable mount since Android smartphones have so many different configurations.
The main purpose here is to use the phone as a cam only at this point. 
There are a couple people out there that have cam mounts for sale for bows but they low on the bow.These mounts could hold cell phones with the proper universal bracket. The other issue is that today's smart phones (most) have the camera on the opposite side of the lens. You need a way to see through the bracket to the phone. There are a myriad of different reasons ( bow balance,arrow\hand clearance\ weight and to make it easier to see etc)I went with the current setup but it can put together a cheap well built one for anyone who wants if they are willing to buy a different stabilizer (depending on what they have now).
I will be posting pictures on http://forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com/
weekly of the progress and intend to have the cam mounted pics up by Tuesday.
Once I have the app functioning I will be moving the cell phone mount to my bow sight area (eliminating the mechanical sight). At this point I expect to have the application functioning as a sight and a video camera at the same time.
Once the 3rd function of the application is complete it will function as a range finder,video camera and digital sight. I am doing it in this order so that it will be available for those in whatever configuration that they want.Some may want to keep their sights and only use the cam as camera.Others may not attached to the bow as a range finder only.Some may want to have all 3 functions so that they can see their shot,send pics\video to their hunting buddies and see te arrow in flight as well as the target pins in the video (or not) . You could even make the correct yardage pin light up when you are on target etc....the possibilities are really endless.
Development will be ongoing adding features like single yardage pin,no yardage pin,different size fields of view,multiple pins etc.


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## oaker (Jun 18, 2010)

Good idea.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

*Shocker*



vnvgunner said:


> Sounds interesting, just wonder how the phone will hold up to repeated shock.


That is really the beauty of the mount. It has built in shock dampening that is inherent in its simple components. (Video mount only). I presume that I can do the same thing with the sight mount once I get to incorporating it as the only sight on the bow.
Also there are little moving parts on the phones. They take shock constantly. The phone has an accelerometer on it that could also be used to blue tooth a lighted knock arrow upon release,could have a usb plug mounted to your grip to enable zoom functions etc. I haven't tested the phone in the environment but should have a good idea once it is mounted on my bow all season with all the practicing I do.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

W.IL.BowHunter said:


> Dude that is awsome great idea! I would love to be able to use my BlackBerry as a range finder and video my hunt as well it sure would be lighter then taking along a video camera and a rangefinder can't wait to see some pics keep me posted !


I am only writing the application for Android OS phones.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Raf Morgan said:


> Great idea! I´m not sure about using it as a sight, since you would have to design a great support for it, but I guess it will work great as both a range-finder and camera! Make sure to posts some pictures when it´s ready!
> 
> You could also use it to record sounds of deer, elk and other hunting animals, to use it later as a bait.
> 
> And don´t forget to put it in quiet mode when hunting...


With the phones ability to detect its angle in relationship to a calibrate surface, it can be used as a sight. It would actually be able to magnify your sight picture.
Although there is potential for an impact on legislation (or vice versa) it is the future and why not? Who wants to buy a sight,a range finder,phone and a video camera? You could theoretically do it all with 1 component.
The crossbows guys could do this much easier than a compound. Realistically it could be done really easily on a crossbow. At some point I might go down that road since the crossbow crowd are on the other end of the spectrum in regards to instinctive\more primitive weapons.
I intend to have the application go into quiet mode immediatly and have the camera on standby to save battery power and to have the phones ringer on silent. The idea is to have the least amount of movement and buttons to push.The user interface will be built with hunting in mind.
If you really wanted to get tricky you could build in adjusted trajectory like the new Leopold range finder does (for bows) for the sight. Again, the potential is endless.


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

damageinc said:


> The parts are on order. I expect them by early next week.
> My first goal is to mount the camera on my bow since archery season is coming and I am\will be busy checking trail cam pics and scouting as well as getting my wife and stepson ready for the hunting season as a whole. It will only be used to take video this season since I don't want to modify my rig and I will be in process of making the application.
> There are so many different ways to mount a camera to your bow. I considered making a one package fits all that would be super cheap and well built with vibration dampening. I went with parts that fit my existing rig that can be removed quickly and require no modification to the bow.
> To function as a sight the mount has to be able to center the lens over the arrow.This will require a more adjustable mount since Android smartphones have so many different configurations.
> ...


Look forward to seeing the finished mount!


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## mi11z (Sep 24, 2007)

Dude thats a gr8 idea, i would buy a smart phone, if you could do all this with it!!!


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## Chromedog (Nov 28, 2006)

I don't know,...have a back up bow for inclimate weather. Those smart phones do not hold up to moisture well. Hunting in the rain knocks out your sight, camera and warranty on your phone,...


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## mi11z (Sep 24, 2007)

I would like to have a quick detach mount, I woud realy only want to use it for Video and range finder, I like my pins


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

*Not a problem*

Actually that problem was solved long before I looked at it.
There are motorcycle mounts for GPS\ipods etc units (same thing) that have waterproof zip-able bags with a clear screen on 1 side.A piece of foam on the back of your phone keeps the phone pushed up against the plastic. It doesn't effect the gps touch screens.
Something similar to this: (They are on sale all over the web)
http://www.amazon.com/ChargerCity-Motorcycle-Navigators-Manufacture-Replacement/dp/B003TBZ6VK
or this one:
http://www.ram-mount.com/CatalogResults/PartDetails/tabid/63/partid/082065077045072079076045065081050085/Default.aspx

A smaller waterproof something that was clear would need to be ordered\made (The Phone mount is actually pretty standard in size (if you made something to the max that the bag could hold- largest cell phones. The overall size of the mounted phone and bracket is 2.75" wide max.
I don't see it being that hard duplicating what the bikers have done already years ago.
I appreciate the questions, keep them coming so that if something I haven't thought of comes up I can address it.



Chromedog said:


> I don't know,...have a back up bow for inclimate weather. Those smart phones do not hold up to moisture well. Hunting in the rain knocks out your sight, camera and warranty on your phone,...


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

The mount I am making for video is super quick detach.
You turn 1 screw a full turn or so and the entire mount comes off of the bow.





mi11z said:


> I would like to have a quick detach mount, I woud realy only want to use it for Video and range finder, I like my pins


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

mi11z said:


> Dude thats a gr8 idea, i would buy a smart phone, if you could do all this with it!!!


I am not an android fanboy or anything like that but I can say that android software is open source , meaning that anyone can make an app and upload it.
Apple is a whole different story. I am not sure about blackberry. I got rid of my blackberry because of the possibilities of the android OS programming and the phones built in capabilities.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

damageinc said:


> I am not an android fanboy or anything like that but I can say that android software is open source , meaning that anyone can make an app and upload it.
> Apple is a whole different story. I am not sure about blackberry. I got rid of my blackberry because of the possibilities of the android OS programming and the phones built in capabilities.


And to be honest with you I don't use any minutes on my verizon plan.My calls,text and IM are at no cost since I utilize VOIP. Now if verizon offered a data plan only. Eventually.


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## sdpackfan25 (Dec 23, 2008)

How will the range finder part be done? Doesn't seem to me that a phone or camera phone would have the hardware to make this possible. But I sure could be wrong; I'm not familiar with the Droid. Sounds like a very cool idea.


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## uwp_94 (Feb 22, 2010)

wow...think of the possibilities!!!


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

What principle are you using to get rangefinder information out of the phone?


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## bansh-eman (Aug 24, 2009)

Good idea, but I think I would mount it on a stand or something besides the bow. When you shoot the bow is going to dip and you will not be able to watch the arrows flight for long. I would say use it for a range finder and video, but keep the sights on your bow that you already have. Just my .02


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

bansh-eman said:


> Good idea, but I think I would mount it on a stand or something besides the bow. When you shoot the bow is going to dip and you will not be able to watch the arrows flight for long. I would say use it for a range finder and video, but keep the sights on your bow that you already have. Just my .02


The camera function @ 20 yards without magnification can hold a pretty good picture.Ever see anyone shoot with a regular cam on their bow? Check out YouTube.
You will see the impact for sure.Following the deer after the shot might be a different story.I won't know until this season(assuming I get a shot!)...but I intend to have video next week at targets.
It literally takes a very short period of time for an arrow to travel 40 yards.I guess if you are shooting 70 -80 yards it might be a problem but I don't know anyone that does.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

sdpackfan25 said:


> How will the range finder part be done? Doesn't seem to me that a phone or camera phone would have the hardware to make this possible. But I sure could be wrong; I'm not familiar with the Droid. Sounds like a very cool idea.


You and archerm3 hit the nail on the head.
The phone does not have the ability to detect a target with a laser feedback.The phone doesn't have a laser. The concept is actually very simple but effective. It is all simple math really.
This is the part that I am building off of. This is the kernal of the project.
Trig.The phones have the ability to detect angles.
I can't believe nobody has put this together actually.
The technology is available.Nobody in the archery world has put it together. It is quite simple if you ask me (except building the code to do it and I am an unemployed engineer.This works for me as a pet project and possible as something that might make me a $ or 2.
If I could program now , I would have this on my bow this season. I think it will take me a month to put it together( the program). The hardware can be bought off of the web\shelf or customized to however trick you want it. I am a utilitarian so I want it to work without issue with a simple interface that makes sense for bow hunters and field archers.
The thing is, I am building this in phases:
I Just video and a mount
II Range finding capability
III A sight with integrated range finding and video.
I'd do it all at once but I am learning the programming (OS android).
Sure it is a new fangled thing but all of the parts are in place , I just need to put it together before I get another job.
I have been working as a project manager in engineering for 20 years and have become tired of the grind. I have a small window to put it all together and know how to bow hunt.


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## lee martin (Feb 1, 2005)

You should have bought a New i-Phone instead of an Android. It already has rangefinding apps in the apps store---including 2 mil-dot RF's. You can buy them for $1.99


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## hinejs (Aug 6, 2010)

i can not wait. I want this now. Where do I sign?

-Jeremy


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

lee martin said:


> You should have bought a New i-Phone instead of an Android. It already has rangefinding apps in the apps store---including 2 mil-dot RF's. You can buy them for $1.99


Android also has the same thing :
http://sean.kndy.net/shooter/ 
This is the same thing as the irange apps on apple.
The problem with apple is that it isn't open sourced.The 2 apps above won't work for bow hunting out of a tree and good luck getting apple to approve your application. These only work on flat ground shooting situations or slight grades. It is more of a rifle application. I am trying to develop something specifically for a bow.
I'd like to keep this thread as an android rangefind\video\sight if we could. I don't want this to turn into whose phone is better.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

hinejs said:


> i can not wait. I want this now. Where do I sign?
> 
> -Jeremy


Sign up here------> http://forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com/

After this week I will only be posting the info \ updates at that site.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

lee martin said:


> You should have bought a New i-Phone instead of an Android. It already has rangefinding apps in the apps store---including 2 mil-dot RF's. You can buy them for $1.99


This app works this way:
A known target size( say a 1' dia target). You take the phone and hold it on the target and size a box to the target using the camera screen. The phone does the math to tell you how far away the target is based on the size of the target in relation to the box you size on the screen.This requires calibration for the first shot at the same distance.Anytime you change the distance you need to recalibrate.
My idea is somewhat the same but different( haha). What I mean by this is that since the phones do not have a laser they need a reference point.Bow hunting is done on flat ground ,in trees and sometimes in a tree or on the ground on a slope.
The phone can be used as a tool to complete math problems( figure out triangles or use the accellerometer to find angles. With angles and known distance (given) you can compute distance. The key to the whole thing is calibration. I am already able to get the phone to very accurately give distances based off of your body height + tree height but am having a little trouble with steep grades. This is the key to the whole thing. I need to figure out the math based off of what givens are available.
I am a little rusty on sloped line equations and trig but I will get there.


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## lee martin (Feb 1, 2005)

What is going to be used to " aim "the phone at the target/


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

lee martin said:


> What is going to be used to " aim "the phone at the target/


An aiming point? A video screen with a duplex on it or a pin or nothing.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

...alright the mount for video is built and tested.I have pictures and video of it (and will be putting better video later) @:
http://www.forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com
Here is a glimpse of the mount.
One of the videos has a range finder running on it...it needs a ton of work.On the link above I will explain why soon...


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

damageinc said:


> ...alright the mount for video is built and tested.I have pictures and video of it (and will be putting better video later) @:
> http://www.forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com
> Here is a glimpse of the mount.
> One of the videos has a range finder running on it...it needs a ton of work.On the link above I will explain why soon...


I can't find the info on the link you provided. The last article is about Ted Nugent. Is it up yet?


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

for the 3rd time...(I am having strange machine problems)...
anyway, the pics and video are up...
http://forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com/
I could post a high res video for some reason...
I also need to have it filmed better but was out working on scouting and treestands today...


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

apparently the music selection on the video is creating a problem with copyrights and is causing loading problems.I am in the process of squaring that away now since it is background music...anyway post your comments on the blog.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Perry24 said:


> I can't find the info on the link you provided. The last article is about Ted Nugent. Is it up yet?


Were you successful getting the link?


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Weird, a ton of hits and not a single comment...
on http:/www.forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I must be either posting in an area that there isnt a need or I need to move to crossbow land. I am sure of one thing, this is the future and it is right in front of us.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

*your thoughts?*



Perry24 said:


> Look forward to seeing the finished mount!


what do you think? post your comments on the blog? This is cutting edge archery...


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## jakejohnson (Oct 6, 2009)

I think it is an awesome idea. I couldn't view the video, but I think what you are doing is amazing. Keep it up, I have enjoyed following your progress.


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## vnvgunner (Nov 7, 2009)

Looks like a winner.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I am able to watch the video on 2 computers and a smart phone. It is a You tube video.Do yo have the ability to watch a youtube video?


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## McStamper (Feb 25, 2009)

I've been suscribed to your thread here. Sounds like a awesome idea, I was able to watch one video can't wait to see and hear more about it.


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## kynknwl (Apr 30, 2010)

Will these be sold?


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

You can subscribe here:
http://forhuntersbyhunters.wordpress.com/
My wife and I are going to take better video and post it up there later today...
I appreciate your interest...


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I keep getting asked that...I might...if there is enough interest...


kynknwl said:


> Will these be sold?


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

*NEW WEBSITE :*
http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/

*THANKS!*

Everything was moved to the new site which still is under a little construction but has larger pictures and video.More to be added later.


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## MysticFlight (Feb 8, 2006)

Need any field testers!!??? I would love to test one out for you this season!!!!


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I think I am going to try to set up a universal mount for bows with it and get it out for sale for next week...
The mount would be sold as a smart phone video mount w\o range finder since I am running into problems with ranging on uneven ground.I can use an app right now that is on the market that can (it is free) output range on flat ground and I have a concept for grades but not for uneven topography. You would have to calibrate it too often to make it worthwhile (so far)...
So it would be just a video mount.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

For sale now... 
Click on the "Products" TAB on the link below
I won't post anything else on here (DIY) in regard to selling the mount...
The rest of the conversation,pictures and video will be posted on :
http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com
Thanks and Happy Hunting!


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I also wanted to note that it can accommodate cameras and camcorders (order w\ or w\o the smart phone bracket) with a standard 1\4 - 20 thread cam mount.


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## Fletch Helical (Jul 20, 2004)

Interesting. Although I'm a bit leery about having my Droid put up with the constant shock of the bow cycling through shots, the idea of having it be a rangefinder is pretty sweet. If it's as accurate as a laser rangefinder it would be so much more convenient and compact than my Bushnell. The only "problem" I could see with it and it's not your program but the droid itself is in bright sunlight seeing the screen is an extraordinary challenge in itself.


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## mstein26888 (Jan 6, 2005)

*Weight*

Can you tell me how much the stabilizer unit weighs and also how much the one that mounts to the end of your existing stabilizer?

Thanks


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I think the life of a cell phone is 2 years. have dropped mine on concrete a few times and didn't have any problems. The droid doesn't really have any moving parts. I have shot 100 shots through my bow without an issue.
The smart phone isn't hard bolted to the bow.It has 2 rubber "dampeners" which do make the screen a little blurry on the shot but help with the shock.


Fletch Helical said:


> Interesting. Although I'm a bit leery about having my Droid put up with the constant shock of the bow cycling through shots, the idea of having it be a rangefinder is pretty sweet. If it's as accurate as a laser rangefinder it would be so much more convenient and compact than my Bushnell. The only "problem" I could see with it and it's not your program but the droid itself is in bright sunlight seeing the screen is an extraordinary challenge in itself.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I haven't built a Universal stabilizer yet. I am using my Stab (Limb saver) with a 5\16 - 24 thread hole in it (some come this way).
The stab that I will be building (it is really a bracket - aluminum threaded with a stud on one end that will screw into the bow. It could be made to different lengths. I will have to figure out how much it weighs per inch( 4" min) and get back to you.
The other parts (all) except smart phone weigh in about 4oz. The entire set up is slightly heavier than my whole stab.
If you have any more questions please post them @:
http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/
http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/
Thank you and all questions will be welcome there.



mstein26888 said:


> Can you tell me how much the stabilizer unit weighs and also how much the one that mounts to the end of your existing stabilizer?
> 
> Thanks


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## BearKills (Jun 25, 2008)

You won't be able to incorporate an accurate range finder without a laser, there is nothing in a phone that can calculate mass and outlines and angle used. If a laser wasn't needed for range finding accurately our military would not be using lasers. You can get something close using the leg lines for white tail deer as it is pretty consistent, but it won't be accurate to within five yards.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

The big difference is that the military shoots much further than 40 yards.
I have measured the application on the market and (if calibrated properly) is accurate within a few inches.
You are correct though, there is not feedback from the environment to get a dead on measurement. 
Otherwise the phone has the ability to accurately measure angles.
I have the math completed to enable the phone to first measure the angle then trig out the distance.
I think I have hit a roadblock with uneven terrain. It cannot be accurate on uneven terrain.
The phone however does have a usb port that opens up all kinds of possibilities.
I appreciate you input though.
I just posted a clearer picture and a video with the phone in the mount utilizing the flat ground rangefinder here a few mins ago:
http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/2010/09/updated-picture-and-video-of-range.html





BearKills said:


> You won't be able to incorporate an accurate range finder without a laser, there is nothing in a phone that can calculate mass and outlines and angle used. If a laser wasn't needed for range finding accurately our military would not be using lasers. You can get something close using the leg lines for white tail deer as it is pretty consistent, but it won't be accurate to within five yards.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

BearKills said:


> You won't be able to incorporate an accurate range finder without a laser, there is nothing in a phone that can calculate mass and outlines and angle used. If a laser wasn't needed for range finding accurately our military would not be using lasers. You can get something close using the leg lines for white tail deer as it is pretty consistent, but it won't be accurate to within five yards.


Mass isn't a requirement for distance judgement. However there is an application on the market for rifles to judge distances based off of a known target size. It also incorporates bullet drop.
Sure, there will have to be some info plugged into the equation. 
Arrow drop could be calculated based off a known point( eath) and a known distance( the center of your eye where you see through the phone).
With a traditional mechanical sight on a bow you are estimating the distance anyway.
Consider this:
You have a target 33 yards from you on a down grade of 5% but it is standing on a small hill @ 33 yards. You have to make a mental guess as to where the target really is and make up for arrow drop( much like a tree).
The phone (as they are built now) can make up for the grade and arrow drop.It cannot make up for the hill the deer is standing on. So it falls in between a laser and a mechanical sight.
THe idea is to use it as a tool (where it illuminated a graphic of a pin and adjusts for arrow drop. Ultimately you still have to determine the distance (on uneven terrain).
If GPS was more accurate the phone would know its location in regard to the surrounding topography.It would also be able to know elevation on the ground. Unfortunately we aren't there yet with the technology.
The screen can also brighten the image in the dark.Something else a human cannot do.


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## trimalimb (Mar 4, 2008)

Sounds like a good concept....One thing to remember these phones are not waterproof and in rain or snow they will most likely be ruined. Just something to think about.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I did.
On the site in the development post there is a link for motorcycle covers that are waterproof and still allow you to use the touch screen. Bikers are mounting smart phones on bikes for gps etc.


trimalimb said:


> Sounds like a good concept....One thing to remember these phones are not waterproof and in rain or snow they will most likely be ruined. Just something to think about.


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## brady01 (Jul 4, 2010)

would this mount work on a blackberry curve?


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

The overall dimensions are on the site : http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/2010/09/updated-picture-and-video-of-range.html
Thickness max= 7/8"
Length = No max
Width = 1 -7/8 ~ 2.50"



brady01 said:


> would this mount work on a blackberry curve?


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## BearKills (Jun 25, 2008)

damageinc said:


> Mass isn't a requirement for distance judgement. However there is an application on the market for rifles to judge distances based off of a known target size. It also incorporates bullet drop.
> Sure, there will have to be some info plugged into the equation.
> Arrow drop could be calculated based off a known point( eath) and a known distance( the center of your eye where you see through the phone).
> With a traditional mechanical sight on a bow you are estimating the distance anyway.
> ...


There is no way to tell your phone where the target is located for the GPS to be effective or for you to range. Yes a phone can calculate angles in which it is tilted, they did this for gaming reasons, but they can not caluclate distances or the angle of a distance because there is nothing for scale and nothing to tell it your desired target location. I just got to be honest and say that there is nothing you can do with todays technology that would even remotely be useful in my mind for ranging. I mean if you got to take the time to use a calculator on the phone you could have just ranged the darn thing with a REAL range finder. I do diffy EQs in my head and eat most trig problems for breakfast, I just don't see the phone doing what you are talking about it doing.


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## GusGus30125 (Mar 5, 2009)

BearKills said:


> There is no way to tell your phone where the target is located for the GPS to be effective or for you to range. Yes a phone can calculate angles in which it is tilted, they did this for gaming reasons, but they can not caluclate distances or the angle of a distance because there is nothing for scale and nothing to tell it your desired target location. I just got to be honest and say that there is nothing you can do with todays technology that would even remotely be useful in my mind for ranging. I mean if you got to take the time to use a calculator on the phone you could have just ranged the darn thing with a REAL range finder. I do diffy EQs in my head and eat most trig problems for breakfast, I just don't see the phone doing what you are talking about it doing.


I eat Cheerios for breakfast.


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## HOOSIERDADDY? (Oct 7, 2009)

damageinc nice work on your mount! I still can't get past the original post of learning Java in 30 days. :mg: To me thats like watching paint dry :sleepy2:
Its innovative devs like yourself that allow me to do something more than just make a call on my phone. Good luck, really questionable on the outcome. I'll be 1st in line if it works.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Try this then...
1)Take the phones height at your eye.(This is a trig problem and a really easy one that you should understand then- it won't even be something for you to chew on obviously)
Now you have 1 side of a triangle.
2) Take the angle that the phone has measured (it appears that you are not up to speed on the phones accuracy)
Now you have an angle opposite 90 degrees.
3) Do the super simple math here and you can figure out what you need to get the 3rd side of a triangle or what is commonly known as the adjacent side of a right (Right triangle).Remember to follow right triangle rules.
It isn't rocket science and it is very accurate.
Mull on that for breakfest (oops I mis spelled that).There really isn't much to chew on.
I hope I articulated it well enough to be understood.
Again, We are not trying to drop a 155 shell into a dumpster at 10 miles. We are trying to be accurate within an inch at 40 yards.
I am a military brat and an engineer and really thought about this while I was on the throne.
Download "smart Measure" http://www.appstorehq.com/smartmeasure-android-282747/app from the android market( unless you do not own a smart phone)
Input the height to your pupil( where you hold the hold the phone to your face noted above). Lay a tape measure out on the ground( the biggest one that you can find).Then use the program to verify the distance.
If this doesn't prove to you what the capability is then I am at a loss to show you what today's technology (in regard to a smart phone) is capable of.
I can guide you through all of this if you visit:
http://www.forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com

I do appreciate the fact that you may not understand what I am talking about but it is possible and I can do it right now. I get updates from the site above constantly and only check AT once or twice a day.



BearKills said:


> There is no way to tell your phone where the target is located for the GPS to be effective or for you to range. Yes a phone can calculate angles in which it is tilted, they did this for gaming reasons, but they can not caluclate distances or the angle of a distance because there is nothing for scale and nothing to tell it your desired target location. I just got to be honest and say that there is nothing you can do with todays technology that would even remotely be useful in my mind for ranging. I mean if you got to take the time to use a calculator on the phone you could have just ranged the darn thing with a REAL range finder. I do diffy EQs in my head and eat most trig problems for breakfast, I just don't see the phone doing what you are talking about it doing.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

The outcome is already somewhat out there.
HAHAH you are right.Between hunting season staring here in Pa and working on another less expensive mount( roughly 2\3 or less of the price with built in vibration isolation also) I decided to work with the gentleman from Korea who has already written the code for the program I noted a few minutes ago on this thread vs learning Java.
I do realize that uneven ground calculations cannot be made without environmental input but I also understand that the phone is capable of utilizing feedback from operator calibration and the program above to determine a point of impact (with arrow drop calculation) and display it on the screen.
Simply put, the phone will never be able to calculate the exact point on uneven terrain but we as bow hunters know we are not shooting over 50 yards. Even a range finder will only tell you how far something is away but it won't give you arrow drop on elevation real time on a bow as your sight.It lacks a targeting duplex and sight picture.
We shoot compound bow somewhat instinctive. If you have a laser rangefinder it is still only as good as what your mind calculates in regard to all of this.An arrow isn't a bullet or a laser.
The fact here is that technology is really taking the fudge factor out.
The New Leupold rangefinder(as I understand) can figure arrow drop. It still doesn't tell you where to point.It give you a recalculated yardage based on arrow drop.You can't see it and the sight pin at the same time. The phone theoretically could replace the site as the visual point on target but it also has a weakness too- it simply cannot calculate the exact yardage on uneven terrain.
The whole purpose is a tool, not the end all be all of sight management.
More importantly, the bow mounts aren't that complicated other than (without testing) building in vibration isolation. The thing about the mount is that it allows a see through target with a cell phone with a camera mounted opposite of the screen side that can also broadcast realtime to anyone you picture, can video your hunt and can give you a really close estimate of yardage from your vantage point. There really isn't any need to buy a video cam, a range finder and a gps. You already have it.There is no need for a calculator in hand to figure out anything.The phones microprocessor and operating system allow it to figure things out much faster than pc's from a few years ago were capable of.
Most folks really don't know what they have when it comes to tech parts in a box. Most DVR's, pc's and the like are underutilized.
Golfers are using GPS right now (there are a trillion apps for this) to find the pin distance on a green. They can do this because the course is mapped out. In the hunting world, this (right now) just isn't possible not am I sure that I want it to be that way.
I am not sure if the last few posters visited the site and watched the video to get an understanding of what the capabilities are. 
If there are any more uestions about it I will answer them there.
Have a kick *** holiday weekend!



HOOSIERDADDY? said:


> damageinc nice work on your mount! I still can't get past the original post of learning Java in 30 days. :mg: To me thats like watching paint dry :sleepy2:
> Its innovative devs like yourself that allow me to do something more than just make a call on my phone. Good luck, really questionable on the outcome. I'll be 1st in line if it works.


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## lee martin (Feb 1, 2005)

How does the phone know that the deer is a 56 pound fawn or a 330 lb buck. Without lasers being used, then scale is the variable that is really impossible for the phone to deal with.


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## BearKills (Jun 25, 2008)

damageinc said:


> The outcome is already somewhat out there.
> HAHAH you are right.Between hunting season staring here in Pa and working on another less expensive mount( roughly 2\3 or less of the price with built in vibration isolation also) I decided to work with the gentleman from Korea who has already written the code for the program I noted a few minutes ago on this thread vs learning Java.
> I do realize that uneven ground calculations cannot be made without environmental input but I also understand that the phone is capable of utilizing feedback from operator calibration and the program above to determine a point of impact (with arrow drop calculation) and display it on the screen.
> Simply put, the phone will never be able to calculate the exact point on uneven terrain but we as bow hunters know we are not shooting over 50 yards. Even a range finder will only tell you how far something is away but it won't give you arrow drop on elevation real time on a bow as your sight.It lacks a targeting duplex and sight picture.
> ...


I understand pythagorean theorem my friend, but the phone has no way to know how far to measure. In one post you tell me I am wrong and you are right, then you come right back the next post and say I am right? There is more than one range finder that can give you true shooting distance on the market. How are you going to even use it for a sight? You won't be using a peep, so how will you keep the sight picture correlated to your form/anchor. Just don't see it working, but good luck. If you get it working I will buy it for four phones and eat a big plate of crow, but I think you are not going to see this come to fruition anytime soon, for anything outside of a camera holder.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't want to be rude but I can't even respond to that statement.



lee martin said:


> How does the phone know that the deer is a 56 pound fawn or a 330 lb buck. Without lasers being used, then scale is the variable that is really impossible for the phone to deal with.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I have tried to explain this to you and it is apparent that it is in vein.
I am offering something that has been asked for even if you cannot understand how it works.Other folks apparently might have an inkling or more than the average bear of the regular goings on and can see outside of the box that you seem to be held within.
I also don't have the time to teach you math 101 either but I enjoy to teach those (and learn as much as I can) that are willing to learn so here is my last attempt at it here.
First off,
I explained some simple trigonometry to you as to how a distance is found with any right triangle.You mention the pythagorean (AT's spell check can't even spell it right) theorem. Sure that is part of simple math but nothing to do with the law of right triangles and what is pertinent with this conversation. Again, I don't want to turn this into a math class but dude, you must not either have read what I wrote or don't understand simple math at all.
The pythagorean theorem was developed by pythagores,based on geometrical givens as a theorem. 
What I explained before were also givens but what I gave you was a basic trigonometric equation.You must have bitten off more than you could chew for breakfast this morning.
The information that I gave you was what the phone can provide a constant.Spelled out an easier way is that the phone can provide an angle and you provide the constant (which is your height to your eye from the ground) or one side of a right triangle.
With this information we can use simple trig to find other variables.These variables would be other sides of the triangle( distance measurements) since all triangles (even lower math) angles equal 180 degrees.
In simple trig, you must know either 2 sides (distances-where the pythagorean theorem would apply- but has as much to do with what I am trying to explain to you as E=MC2 {and no, that is't the equation for splitting the beer atom}) or ( this is a run on sentence by the way) you must know 2 parts of a right triangle ( be it an angle and side or 2 sides and so on) to figure out the unknown(where you seem to be stuck). This is where Sin,Cos and tan come in (understood by the Opposite side of a triangle divided be the Hypotenuse (referred to in math world as O\H - sin) or the adjacent side of of a Right triangle divided by the Hypotenuse (The hypotenuse is the longest side of a triangle by the way)( I have the feeling that people are ether scratching their heads or are rolling around on the floor laughing about my stupidity trying to explain this to you) which would be commonly known as co sin and finally there is tangent (I can offer to help tutor your kids if needed) ...let me regroup.
O\H = sin
A\H = co sin
O\A = tan
Do you still follow? 
Anyway I hope you do while you are eating your cheerios.
So, If you know 2 variables in that math (O\H , A\H or O\A) you can figure out another side of the triangle. (Which would be a distance length (Anyone can step in at any time if I am not being clear here).
I am not really flexing any kind of mental muscle right now since this is high school math(and I am much longer in the tooth than that but I just making one last chance attempt to explain that there are many things all around you that you may not be aware of that you can get information from such as there weren't handheld devices to give you these answers instantly before but now they exist (another run-on hahah!).These devices do not need your input.They already have it...
Take a look at this ignore the solve for H - I had my head up my right triangle on that one because I soon realized that the phone could actually be calibrated to adjust for this) - I am sure you know this already.I know that H cannot be found without environmental input...etc etc...








I know it can all be confusing, heck I get caught up tying my own shoes sometimes but really it isn't that complicated. I suggest that you bring up your doubts with me on the site mentioned (many times to you) so that I can explain to you how it works(I have no magic to hide behind (only current technology-like it or not and have clearly stated how it works and what it can\cannot do).I am not looking for a patent or a fancy cell phone holder( actually it works great for that- let me video conference you when I am in my tree in 28 days when the Pa archery season opens so that you can see what I am shooting at!)...
I actually only agreed with what I have been saying.I haven't agreed with your opinion at all.
You never answered if you own a smart phone- I mean somehting that can do more than connect a call. Have you read anything that I have asked you to read? Yu don't have to trust me, I already know.
So now on the the evolution of things...
Back in the day there weren't any sights (easily confused with sites(web- there weren't any of those either)...
Then along came the mechanical sight.
The mount that I have posted on video clearly explains that it is a video only mount.
But consider this...
I could physically mount a device( it could be anything) with a lens on it with a bracket to my riser( it might even have a video camera or a smart phone) with a duplex,a pin or whatever.
It can be programmed (with its internal accelerometer to light up the screen in hunting mode when it is moved( I know you already knew that) (It could have zoom( some call that magnification). It doesn't really matter what it would be but it would still be a point of view.
Now take the SAME place where a typical mechanical sight on a bow is mounted and put a video screen on it. Now you have the same line of sight. You would use your peep right on a picture, you anchor points etc.I am not sure you understand how a bow works.
Then you think, hmmm maybe I want to have better light gathering(ever used a cell phone or digital camera that improves dark pictures?
Maybe I want to zoom in on that deer with more light...
What on earth makes you think this cannot be done?
What if I wanted to trig out the distance to that illuminated deer that is zoomed in( sure that buck only looks like it is 5 feet away and is so much more clear that using available light)...could it be digitally enhanced? (rhetorical theoretical question)
Sure , cameras were able to do that before the smart phone (the mount accepts both). Most of them were heavier and didn't have the screen size that they do today (on a disposable phone-todays phones have a 2 year life span).
They also didn't have pinch zoom,attachable photo zoom lens(and software driven real time picture enhancement).They were never capable of streaming video real time to anyone either.
Ever watched a cam online?
I'll give you a 1 min application to download (since you don't have the phone or the time to try the last software suggestion I made to try something such as imovicha) and you can watch me in my tree hunt all day.
Cameras simply didn't have operating systems like the new phones do and they sure as heck didn't have the capability to take environment input in(such as a USB cable -that ALL android phones have) and more importantly open source code development that is almost to the point of drag and drop gadgets and widgets (You probably haven't been exposed to it yet)...that is well on its way.You can even plug it into your mini laptop...and on and on...I hope you get it.
Maybe now you have learned some math and what technology (not me) is bringing along.Trust me, I am not the one that is doing it.You live in a world that already has it.It is what this whole conversation is all about.We don't live in the Happy Days world of RGB colored plexi in front of a black and white screen anymore. The possibilities are endless.They truly are. If you read anyhting that I have written you would know what I am trying to explain to you.
Sure, it is a glorified camera mount for those that are casting a blind eye.And a good one at that.
Mark my words, 2 years from now if what I propose doesn't come to fruition, I will eat any crow that you can muster and I will be able to do it in my tree in the woods with even more technology that is available today and you can watch from anywhere in the world.


BearKills said:


> I understand pythagorean theorem my friend, but the phone has no way to know how far to measure. In one post you tell me I am wrong and you are right, then you come right back the next post and say I am right? There is more than one range finder that can give you true shooting distance on the market. How are you going to even use it for a sight? You won't be using a peep, so how will you keep the sight picture correlated to your form/anchor. Just don't see it working, but good luck. If you get it working I will buy it for four phones and eat a big plate of crow, but I think you are not going to see this come to fruition anytime soon, for anything outside of a camera holder.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Here is a sketch of the issue:








Green represents the terrain.
Black is the triangle(right triangle).
Red is arrow trajectory
Yellow is the error due to uneven terrain.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

The only way (there isn't any perfectly accurate way) to overcome this without feedback from the environment would be to somehow adjust for the slope of the terrain. I realize this is speaking the obvious. If GPS was accurate enough for the phone to know its position on earth it could know the grade of the point it was on as well as the location in distance (target) to calculate slope.
I know that gps isn't accurate enough to do this. It is a shame that you cannot take the terrain(if you have ever looked at google maps) and references the topo map in regard to your location.
The code could be written t do this but it would rely on gps for an accurate uneven grade shot.
This could further minimize the error noted in the graph above or really throw it out of whack.
Now if you could plug a (just some hardware that could read the laser signal (feedback) and use the phones cpu, you via usb you would be set.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Now, here is what the phone can actually help with(but not right now capable of being used as a rangefinder but very well as a sight:
The phone knows what level is( the opposite side of the Hypotenuse. Since it knows this, you can point the phone toward a tree in your view.If code could be written to show a line in your field of view at level, you could pick the point on a tree (for example) and get an accurate distance (assuming the tree is straight).THis is possible and the "smart measure" app actually has a height measurement tool( it was designed to guestimate heights). It could possible be written to make this an easy step for a hunter.Right now it should only be used as a reference.
The "other issue" with the hardware capability:
You would have to calibrate the phone for each direction that you could shoot. Code could also be written to do this.
I have the time typically when I am in a tree to point and click in 4 directions when I am hunting.(assuming that every direction has a different grade. It is possible that this wouldn't be the case. We are really only capable of inside 50 yard shots.
Now when we as hunters are in a tree and see a target, even with a range finder we have to do a lot of guestimating (trad folks are no sight 100% instinctive). The phone could be a useful tool to take some of this out of the equation. Sure, it wouldn't be perfect but isn't is an improvement over nothing?


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## BearKills (Jun 25, 2008)

Dude, I am not going to even compliment on how off base you are. What do you think we use pythagorean theorem to figure out? We use it solve right triangles, in fact it is the base for all triangle truth tables. If a triangle is a right triangle, I can use pythagorean theorem to solve it period. SO it has EVERYTHING to do with what you are trying to accomplish without a laser.










If you give the phone measurement C and the phone and your arrow are perpendicular at full draw it could give you angle AC, but you still have no way of knowing the distance of B to calculate A which would be the distance you need for the range. Point blank period, I am right, you can not use the phone as a range finder currently. Are you disputing that? Or do you want to make another three post ramble that basically says, "Yes you are right and currently we can not use the phone for a range finder. BTW if you knew B and C you could use *PYTHAGOREAN THEOREM* (which according to you has nothing to do with this) to solve for A, which would take either sine, cosine or tangent of either of those sides connecting to figure for the opposing sides. So keep making cereal jokes, the fact remains that I am correct and you can not use a phone currently for a range finder. You are also missing the buss on using it as an accurate sight without making the arrow and the phone perfectly perpendicular at FULL draw.



damageinc said:


> Now, here is what the phone can actually help with(*but not right now capable of being used as a rangefinder *but very well as a sight:


Good luck mental muscle man. For the record, I have a range finder that calculates my TRUE shot distance incredibly accurately and I have to do VERY little guessing my friend.


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## BearKills (Jun 25, 2008)

damageinc said:


> I have tried to explain this to you and it is apparent that it is in vein.
> I am offering something that has been asked for even if you cannot understand how it works.Other folks apparently might have an inkling or more than the average bear of the regular goings on and can see outside of the box that you seem to be held within.
> I also don't have the time to teach you math 101 either but I enjoy to teach those (and learn as much as I can) that are willing to learn so here is my last attempt at it here.
> First off,
> ...


All of that bolded in Red is you explaining pythagorean theorem btw. It's especially hilarious because you are telling me that it has nothing to do with what you need to do. Point blank period is that you need two sides to solve one and the way we do that for any right triangle is to use a truth table or pythagorean theorem. What a wiz! I wouldn't let you tutor my neighbors dog in math. My BS is in math and I used to use pythagorean theorem every day at work, so I know VERY well what it is.


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## BearKills (Jun 25, 2008)

THE PYTHAGOREAN THEOREM

A 90° angle is called a right angle.
A right triangle is a triangle with a 90° angle.

In a right triangle, the side opposite the 90° angle is called the hypotenuse
and the remaining two sides are called the legs.

The angles in any triangle add up to 180°.

In any triangle, the longest side is opposite the largest angle,
and the shortest side is opposite the smallest angle.
Thus, in a right triangle, the hypotenuse is always the longest side.

The Pythagorean Theorem gives a beautiful relationship between the lengths of the sides in a right triangle:
the sum of the squares of the shorter sides is equal to the square of the hypotenuse.
Furthermore, if a triangle has this kind of relationship between the lengths of its sides, then it must be a right triangle!

Hmmm, sounds exactly what you would need to use to figure out a shooting distance if you didn't have a laser reading.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I think all high schoolers know what the pythagorean theorem is.Obviously you do to.
I stated in my 3 pages of nonsense that it really was the basis of what current phone capability is and what is available on the market now as a measurement tool that ONLY works on flat terrain.Maybe I am just not able to articulate it for you.This isn't what I am trying to do.
I don't know what you mean about not being able to use the phone as a sight either.
All ANYONE would have to do it make a bracket to hold the sight in the same location that any bow has a sight on the riser and it could be used as a sight. There isn't anything special about that at all. I think you are getting the 2 SEPARATE ideas confused.They are 2 totally different things.
1) Was to start out with a cam mount for video.(while incorporating what is on the market today).
2) The other would be to (has been done yet), isn't available , isn't what the phone can do and isn't what I claimed it is capable of now.
THe idea is "development". Unfortunately you have confused what it is now vs. what I think it could be with some type of environmental feedback.
Being critical is appreciated as long as you understand the subject matter.
The current location would not work and isn't designed to.The current location is for VIDEO.The range finding portion has absolutely nothing to with the current configuration- this is where I think you are missing the boat since are stuck on a narrow part of the concept.
All I did was download an application to the current VIDEO setup to show what it is capable of now.
Does this finally make sense? Maybe that is why you think I agree and disagree - because I am talking about 2 different things and you keep talking about the pythagorean theorem which has nothing to do with what the phone would need( because it is part of what is on the market today).
You were studious enough to see it in the formula for what has already been done, not what NEEDS to be done.
Early on I explained that they are 2 different things.You must not have read any of that.
I really am not interested in the pythagorean theorem even if you do use it everyday at work. 
The phone simply needs environmental feedback and no it isn't available yet.
I am not sure why you are stuck on that small part of the whole thing that 
The idea is to develop something to give the unknown that you keep talking about.
I don't want to come across as smart alec
but I am frustrated that you are doggedly persuing the obvious.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

1) Take the phone today, mount it to your riser above your arrow and presto- you have a working sight.
2) Take what is currently available today(utilizing the pythagorean theorem and some other simple math) and you could make a duplex and an illuminated sight pin( that yes would be accurate enough to tell you what pin distance you need to make the shot. No it wouldn't be accurate enough AS IS in the current mount location (and completely unusable as s sight as is) but it would be accurate enough to tell you what pin to use if mounted in the right location, of which it is not currently.
It could also zoom (magnification) which your range finder cannot and so on.
Maybe this makes sense to you?


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## BearKills (Jun 25, 2008)

damageinc said:


> 1) Take the phone today, mount it to your riser above your arrow and presto- you have a working sight.
> 2) Take what is currently available today(utilizing the pythagorean theorem and some other simple math) and you could make a duplex and an illuminated sight pin( that yes would be accurate enough to tell you what pin distance you need to make the shot. No it wouldn't be accurate enough AS IS in the current mount location (and completely unusable as s sight as is) but it would be accurate enough to tell you what pin to use if mounted in the right location, of which it is not currently.
> It could also zoom (magnification) which your range finder cannot and so on.
> Maybe this makes sense to you?


None of it EVER confused me, you in multiple places eluded to the fact that an accurate range finder was possible (I can quote and highlight it if needs be) is the only thing I refuted. I do not feel you can even get it to work as an efficient sight currently considering the size and shape of the phone and no peep for reference to promote consistent anchor and proper form. Fact of the matter is, a laser range finder around your neck and a bow with a scope will be a lot more efficient, faster and effective than what you are suggesting. Again, I understand we are talking about three different applications of one device and I believe only one makes sense currently. Sight systems are a bit more complex than you are giving them credit for and there are multiple factors that come in to play when creating an accurate sight system. Definitely looking forward to your release of a smart phone as a sight, and the results of said sight system for repeatability. But I know we won't be seeing any of our current phones without a laser incorporated into the phone or a phone being specifically designed to be all things you are saying.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I dont know what happened to my post that disappeared into cyber space but here is what is said in general:
The available applications for the phone (smart measure as an example) are accurate (and yes you can quote me on that- if calibrated correctly)- on flat ground.Download it and try it before you criticise it. You understand the concept so you should get that.
Today's Mechanical sights are incredibly simple, there is no magic to them at all. My phone is about the same size as my sight.
The phone could be mounted where the sight is on the riser and all of the existing reference points would be utilized- peep, burger button etc with added magnification. Nothing other than a bracket would need to be made.Think about it- the phone wouldn't eliminate any of this stuff but utilize it.
The key would be be making sure the phone went on the bow at the exact position every time. This would be accomplished a few different ways - like a permanent hard case that is quick detach- like a gun scope etc. 
The only hurdle is the need for environmental input ie: (more accurate) gps,laser etc.-and yes I agree with that and have all along.I hit this roadblock 5 mins into thinking about the whole thing.
The phone can't even zoom now in video mode but it has that capability.
Lasers are pretty cheap and are old technology (albeit being improved all of the time).
A few years ago a smart phone didn't even exist. I believe that there is technology around the corner that can be used for some type of environment input. The idea is to have an open mind.
There are small lasers out now ( I believe) that people use to measure short distances. All you need is a way to get that information into a usable form. I can't say I have worked far into that yet since hunting season is in and I just found the best dove hunting spot I have ever hunted in and plan to hit it hard before archery season.In betwen all of that my wife is going to be filmed on an outdoor show and is attending the first ever PA GC pheasant hunt for women in a few weeks and my son has early deer season. I am booked so in my spare time I have been playing with this.Maybe today there isn't a way but I will keep looking. 
My real point is that personal hand held devices have the ability to take input and turn it into something useful and you have already purchased it and have it on your person- why not use it to its full potential?
If you tried an app such as smart measure, you would see that it has the ability also to measure things.It could have a simple code change to allow it to either have the grade input or it could measure the grade but the problem is that it would only be accurate on an even grade as it is now without enviromental input. The US in regard to GPS accuracy is lagging way behind and there is a movement (well underway to improve its accuracy).Many other countries have newer sattelite gps systems with much more accuracy then we do. It isn't a stretch to see that that link can be bridged pretty easily.
Lasers are cheap etc...
It shouldnt be any stretch of the imagination to think that this can and will be done by someone and it won't be long.
Today many(such as me) have a media center where all of my media functions in myhome are controlled by a pc. I trashed the cd players,all of the different remotes and different user interfaces and have 1 box.I don't need multiple boxes - I use a pc for eq,cd,online,tuning etc( I do have direct tv) viewing on 1 tv screen. 
Most people have e separate box for everything.Today this really is obsolete. I think the same type of thing can be accomplished with a personal hand held unit.
If I knew that it could be used (phone) right now as an accrurate range finder in any environment I would have just mounted it to my riser already and it would be complete. Obviously this isn't the case today and it like it hasn't been discussed all over the web ad naseum.


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## GusGus30125 (Mar 5, 2009)

BearKills said:


> Dude, I am not going to even compliment on how off base you are. What do you think we use pythagorean theorem to figure out? We use it solve right triangles, in fact it is the base for all triangle truth tables. If a triangle is a right triangle, I can use pythagorean theorem to solve it period. SO it has EVERYTHING to do with what you are trying to accomplish without a laser.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you may be forgetting some of that trig you're so apted at. If you have angle AC and you know angle BC because its a right triangle, you can then have angle AB. Because every triangle contains 180 degrees, simple subraction gives you the missing angle. The AAS theory helps you find the missing sides. In order for this to work, the app would have to use a constant of 90 degrees for one angle and acquire another angle from the physical tilt of the phone. Then all the measurements would have to be calculated within the app to spit out the "hypothenuse" or shooting distance. Its the same theory that the Archers Range rangefinder uses and its pretty accurate on flat ground.


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## WCWade (Oct 22, 2007)

Give me a call sometime. I might be able to help you out on a some of your snags.
There have been several electronic versions of this on the market in the last 15 or so years and the ArcherRange.


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## jlh42581 (Oct 21, 2009)

with zero programming skills youre gonna have one hell of a time learning java in 30 days. you better start lower on the totem pole so to speak.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

?
Mail me- I am not sure what you mean but I am interested. I actually have been contacted by a camera manufacturer with endorsement talk with some major hunting tv personalities.
People are buying the mount and I am getting ready to release a budget model that will also include vibration isolation.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I am unemployed and have a little background but not with java...
I have hit a wall with the design on uneven ground.The rangefinder works very well right now with current applications available on the market on flat ground.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

damageinc said:


> I am unemployed and have a little background but not with java...
> I have hit a wall with the design on uneven ground.The rangefinder works very well right now with current applications available on the market on flat ground.


The mount is really designed for vibration isolation with a free phone application. It isn't a range finder yet but can be used on flat terrain as a range finder.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Lancaster archery sells good quick detach equipment for this.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Help us help you (the forhuntersbyhunters mantra-or somewhat),
We are looking for 3 people who can provide a review for each mount.Each person will be supplied one of the 3 mounts that (will be available next week). They will have 1 mount each and will not be able to select which one that they will get.Each will need to supply feedback on this site on the mount that they were delivered for 2 weeks.After the initial 2 week period expires, each field tester will then be supplied the other (2) mounts to test for the balance of the PA archery season.There will also be back ups (not really but 2 other people) that can take your position and will provide the same information in the event that any applicant fails to do so).
YOU MUST SEND YOUR EMAIL to [email protected] to apply
The following requirements are:
1)All applicants must be a PA resident.
2)All applicants will supply the bow information that they will use,(make\model\draw length\physical height\their physical weight\years experience with bow hunting\draw weight (or #lbs draw) and let off %
3)All applicants must supply feedback weekly to a specific page that will be set up specifically for you on this site.
4) Weekly feedback must meet the following criteria:
5)Shooting 50 shots on target (whatever target you choose) then provide a field report with the following aspects:
a)Durability with suggestions on improvement
b)Repeatability with suggestions on improvement
c)Design with suggestions on improvement
Liability:
i)All applicants must assume "applicant status" once selected and assume "applicant" from this point forward.
ii)Any feedback\involvement\development\participant etc. that is relevant to the owner\shooter or user of the equipment that is provided will assume that they are a willing party once selected as "applicant".
iia)Failure issues-Upon any issue from the applicant must be documented in the field report and will not have any repercussions from fhbh."Applicants assume sole liability for anything related to fhbh testing.
iib)All Applicants must agree that they are utilizing this equipment,provided to them (second party known as a single person or entity)at their own risk and by agreeing to be part of this testing assume full responsibility of any repercussion \ damages and relinquish any liability from fhbh in the event that any negative issue may occur. ANY NEGATIVE LIABILITY that may occur.
iic)All Applicants agree that they do now own and will not copyright,share or trade any of the equipment,information by fhbh, or trade secrets from fhbh that you are provided,that you provide to fhbh or any information gathered during the testing process from any fhbh exercise.Under federal law may be penalized for sharing trade secrets or they may be tried under espionage laws. We don't really think this is a problem bu have witnessed it in the past!
iid)Any Applicant that violates these rules can and will be subject to federal ruling by copyright law that this forum does not designate and should abide by these laws.fhbh does not govern or make these laws and so should applicant be aware that there are laws that govern these issues and said applicant must abide by them.
8)If the weekly feedback criteria is not met you will be contacted to complete whatever is missing.If you fail to to this within 1 week, you will be responsible to pay for the equipment provided to you and your information,posts and status will be deleted as part of this field test.
9)Any media ,video,email,etc or any type of correspondance will be owned by forhuntersbyhunters
If You agree that this is acceptable criteria and you can conform to the requirements then send an email with the required information to:
[email protected]
I will also send the android app with the mounts as they are shipped out with the field test.
In the subject line note "APPLICANT FOR FIELD TESTING and range finder app"
Good luck, I hope to get this done with some good people!
Application starts Right now @ :9\11
Application ends in 7 days (or 9\18)
on 9\19 The mounts will be delivered (3 day mail max)
PA Archery season starts 10\2, That gives 1 week for a field report.
Lets go!


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

UPDATED RULESDraft sent this morning with errors above that cannot be deleted)


Help us help you (the forhuntersbyhunters mantra),
We are looking for 3 people who can provide a review for each mount.Each person will be supplied one of the 3 mounts that (will be available next week). They will have 1 mount each and will not be able to select which one that they will get.Each will need to supply feedback on this site on the mount that they were delivered for 2 weeks.After the initial 2 week period expires, each field tester will then be supplied the other (2) mounts to test for the balance of the PA archery season.There will also be a back up (more than likely the back up will have to do nothing and will end up with 3 mounts unless any of the original 3 do not meet the criteria stated below).
YOU MUST SEND YOUR EMAIL to [email protected] to apply (There is no cost to the selected "applicants")The following requirements are:
1)All applicants must be a US resident.
2)All applicants will supply the bow information that they will use,(make\model\draw length\physical height\their physical weight\years experience with bow hunting\draw weight (or #lbs draw) and let off %
3)All applicants must supply feedback weekly to a specific page that will be set up specifically for you on this site.
4) Weekly feedback must meet the following criteria:
5)Shooting 50 shots on target (whatever target you choose) then provide a field report with the following aspects:
a)Durability with suggestions on improvement
b)Repeatability with suggestions on improvement
c)Design with suggestions on improvement
Liability:
i)All applicants must assume "applicant status" once selected and assume "applicant" from this point forward.
ii)Any feedback\involvement\development\participant etc. that is relevant to the owner\shooter or user of the equipment that is provided will assume that they are a willing party once selected as "applicant".
iia)Failure issues-Upon any issue from the applicant must be documented in the field report and will not have any repercussions from fhbh."Applicants assume sole liability for anything related to fhbh testing.
iib)All Applicants must agree that they are utilizing this equipment,provided to them (second party known as a single person or entity)at their own risk and by agreeing to be part of this testing assume full responsibility of any repercussion \ damages and relinquish any liability from fhbh in the event that any negative issue may occur. ANY NEGATIVE LIABILITY that may occur.
iic)All Applicants agree that they do now own and will not copyright,share or trade any of the equipment,information by fhbh, or trade secrets from fhbh that you are provided,that you provide to fhbh or any information gathered during the testing process from any fhbh exercise.
iid)Any Applicant that violates these rules can and will be subject to federal ruling by copyright law that this forum does not designate and should abide by these laws.fhbh does not govern or make these laws and so should applicant be aware that there are laws that govern these issues and said applicant must abide by them.
6)If the weekly feedback criteria is not met you will be contacted to complete whatever data (correspondence) is missing.If you fail to to this within 1 week, you will be responsible to pay for the equipment provided to you and your information,posts and status will be deleted as part of this field test.
7)Any media ,video,email,etc or any type of correspondance will be owned by forhuntersbyhunters
If You agree that this is acceptable criteria and you can conform to the requirements then send an email with the required information to:
[email protected]
8)Must have a smart phone that fits the bracket.
I will also send the android app with the mounts as they are shipped out with the field test.
In the subject line note "APPLICANT FOR FIELD TESTING and range finder app"
Good luck, I hope to get this done with some good people!
Application starts Right now @ :9\11
Application ends in 7 days (or 9\18)
on 9\19 The mounts will be delivered (3 day mail max)
PA Archery season starts 10\2, That gives 1 week for a field report.
Lets go!
In a nutshell, all you have to do is shoot with it once a week and provide your feedback.
In the end you will have 3 mounts (they will share parts).The idea is to see which one and what combination of parts works best and to learn what changes (if any) need to be made by an unbiased source and more importantly to have fun.
The Page address is: http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/p/outdoors-rant-page.html


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Alright! We have 2 Guys and a girl...still in need of another...my 12 yr old stepson will also be shooting with his droid eris...
Some are testing with smart phones and others compact sport camcorders...
There must be a need because people are asking for them...Hopefully soon they will start posting video on the web!
There is a higher priced powder coated aluminum mount and 2 less expensive injection molded mounts. Each has advantages that we intend to nail down.
I can't wait for the opener of archery season...it is killing me waiting for the first day!


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

We are filled up with 4 total (= my wife and stepson)...


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## azarrowflinger (Aug 8, 2005)

Have you released the software to the market yet?


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

That was 4 + my wife and stepson and a camera manufacturer.
I haven't worked on the software due to the problem with the uneven terrain. I can use the range finder to get pretty decent distance judgement but I don't need a range finder. I was thinking about using the trig method with bracketing but haven't had the time since my family has taken to shotguns now also by storm and I found a honey hole for doves.I think I am going to use the bracket to broadcast my hunts and to film only.I am working on making a sight out of it but am working on beta testing and building and selling the mounts.


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## yost44 (Feb 21, 2010)

dude as soon as I get my droid X count me in for this thing...awesome idea


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

The season is coming..get one now. I'll hook you up. I need people who get it to start getting it.I am in this for fun and want to bang the nay sayers.It is so strange that the folks who don't get it are so critical, the ones that do are chomping at the bit. I have a super cheap version(at cost for 35$). I just want people to go for it. It is kinda funny that that people who don't get it criticize so harshly and the ones that do are all over it...I guess it is the sign of the times. I am posting this from my phone. and read it at the range from my phone.Get 'er done. Someone will say eventually"there is an app for that" and then they might actually get it!
It also appears that there is influence on folks that have contracts with phones that are running out. There is a learning curve.Some are behind it (but are lost) and there are more like you who "get it"
See ya soon!
Good luck this season in whatever kind of hunting that you do! Send us an email and we will hook you up.
We just released an inexpensive version that is just like the other mounts with vibe isolation\dampening for 35$ (I have begun beta testing on it with 4 different people,a cam manufactureer and my family who is tied in on todays technology:








It lacks adjustability but pretty much is on the spot.
Try the apps when you get your phone from www.forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com
We appreciate your objective opinion of the future of bow hunting.Eventually (not to long from today where this technology will be acceptable to the rest of the fools who don't get it)...or accept it. They will be left in the dust.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

I don't get it. WHy would someone buy a mount for a phone that has NO application yet to be attached to the bow? There's no sight capability and no rangefinding capability. Sounds like a timeshare on the moon at this point.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I mad a long post but it got lost.
Take it as it is or figure out the potential.It really isn't that difficult.There is no app attached to the bow(not sure what that means)>It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that any screen can replace a mechanical sight.The new phones can do that easily. It must be more difficult to understand that application vs. a mechanical sight. If I don't do it somebody will.It is insane to think somebody will not.I am really too tired to combat the whynots vs. the people that are developing it now, You are insane if you think it isn't in the works.My post was lost. Sorry but people are working on it now.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

The mount is really for video. Ever heard of Ustream? or imovicha? There are a bunch of apps that make sense for it but you might not understand them or...whatever...it is coming...it is already here and I am too tired to explain it again.You'll get it eventually.Maybe not today but it will come.I "ain't" worried.Tried smart measure yet?


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## FLDXT (Feb 15, 2008)

Could this mount be adapted to hold the Kodak Playsport video camera? I am not sure the dimensions of the Kodak compared to a smartphone.


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## pyroman_27 (Feb 4, 2003)

I'm interested in the sight mount. It should be simple for an android developer to use the camera and place dots that can be moved individually or gang adjusted on the screen of the phone. I know this isn't in the rangefinding part of the programming, but it could be incorporated after you get the bugs worked out. I just got a captivate from AT&T last week and haven't had a chance to experiment with the camera much so I'm not sure about the zoom capabilites or video during a shot. I'd love to try it on my bow, but I don't want to have to buy another phone because of the shock from the bow. Maybe after I drop it a few times, lol. If anyone uses a Samsung Galaxy S for this, let me know how it holds up. I've also just began looking into android app development. Google has come out with a new program that let's just about anyone be able to do it. I'm not sure if it has been released yet. Just do a search for the "Google app inventor". Good luck and keep us informed. Thanks


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Yes.
It doesn't need to be adapted. There is a gent who is testing it for me right now.THe palysport is an excellent application for these mounts.


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## Heavishot (Jun 3, 2009)

Have you thought about making a version that would attach to my current stabilizer rather than replacing it? I'd definitely be interested in buying one like that.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

pyroman_27 said:


> I'm interested in the sight mount. It should be simple for an android developer to use the camera and place dots that can be moved individually or gang adjusted on the screen of the phone. I know this isn't in the rangefinding part of the programming, but it could be incorporated after you get the bugs worked out. I just got a captivate from AT&T last week and haven't had a chance to experiment with the camera much so I'm not sure about the zoom capabilites or video during a shot. I'd love to try it on my bow, but I don't want to have to buy another phone because of the shock from the bow. Maybe after I drop it a few times, lol. If anyone uses a Samsung Galaxy S for this, let me know how it holds up. I've also just began looking into android app development. Google has come out with a new program that let's just about anyone be able to do it. I'm not sure if it has been released yet. Just do a search for the "Google app inventor". Good luck and keep us informed. Thanks


I am aware of the cut and paste drag and drop android development software. There is a waiting list.
You are exaclty correct with your statements about the screen. If you have ever heard of "bracketing" or the "dead On" bow site add on, an android phone could utilize this with dots ,a duplex, super imposed on the screen with the current "smart measure"-(tweaked of course) and illuminate digital pins (graphics on the screen) etc.
The only downside that I can come up with is that the the android phones do not have zoom currently with video (it is another program change that is in the works with developers) for magnification.I know this sounds strange but the market is growing so fast that the code isn't written yet even though all andoid phones have the zoom capability in photo mode. There probably is software out there that does it but all of this would need to be incorporated into 1 app.
There are also freelance folks who will take your money and develop whatever you want. I may take this route just to knock it out but have been so busy building,testing and selling mounts and getting ready for the Pa archery season as well as setting up my website and scheduling bow mounted live broadcasts that I haven't been able to begin the work.
In addition to this there are 5000 mha external batteries that give 11+ hrs of movie viewing with phones that weigh little that can also be placed on your bow and attached to the cam in the mount via mini usb.

To answer your shock question- it isn't an issue. People have been mounting smart phones on motor cycle handlebars that take constant shock. All of the mounts that I sell have vibration dampening\isoloation no matter what configuration is purchased (there are 4 currently).
The phone has very little moving parts and the vibration that you see on my video is just the residual vibe that is left over from the rubber joints absorbing the impact. I have over 500 shots with my bow without issue.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Look at this if you are worried about shock:
Here is a mount for camcorders for guns and it doesn't include any shock dampening\isolation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...d=190435236244&ff4=263602_263622#ht_500wt_947


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## Jovack (Jun 7, 2009)

Are you currently selling the mounts? If so, are they adjustable? I would like to see if my iPhone 4 would fit so I can video hunts.

Thanks!

--Rod


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## Jessee315 (Aug 23, 2010)

Its a great idea man...dont let anyone tell you different!


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Heavishot said:


> Have you thought about making a version that would attach to my current stabilizer rather than replacing it? I'd definitely be interested in buying one like that.


Sure can.
Does your stab have a 5\16-24 thread in the end of your stab? If so, screw it right in.
You can also just screw it straight into the bow and eliminate the stab( with one of the mounts).


















http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/p/products.html
Or, you can buy one of the less expensive mounts and slide it on a 1" or 1.25" round stab. There isn't as much adjustment this way but it works just fine.
Why not replace your stab anyway?


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm not. They will get it eventually. 
I am probably going to incorporate the flat ground rangefinding capability to a "bracketing" type of set up for the actual digital(smartphone mount).I have been busy putting these together and sending them out and getting ready for archery season and just haven't had the time to put the software together.(Phase II)
Thanks...


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Yes and Yes. I have sold a couple to iphone folks.
It fits most smartphones,camcorders and cameras.
I am doing live hunts broadcasted from the mount from my tree,my wife on a hog hunt,the Pa Jr hunting gun season and I intend to get out next week and use the mount on my baretta 12 ga to shoot some doves.
Check out the "Live cam" page @ http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/p/live-cam-real-time-streaming-video-from.html
or the products page @: http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/p/products.html


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

We are going to make a video on a Passion with illuminated nocks that will be posted next week. My wife is going on a hog hunt with the cam also to broadcast live- I haven't locked down the date yet.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

The Mounts are on display this weekend at the National Hunting and Fishing days with a camera manufacturer.
Now that deer season is in or around the corner it is time to take video of your hunts. You can upload them from the tree instantly,share them with friends,live broadcast and a whole lot more at no cost.
Hopefully I don't get back ordered...
Good luck and happy hunting all!


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## hangr54 (Aug 12, 2010)

I can see it now.Your locked on to a beautiful 5x5 your heart is pounding your waiting for him to clear that last tree before you give him a grunt....come...on....come...on.....almost.........RING....RING......Oh hi honey it's me do you think you could pick up some milk and bread? Gotta go, Joey's pulling on dogs tail again.


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## hangr54 (Aug 12, 2010)

Maybe they can make one i can strap to a tree and it'll call me everytime a 10pt walks by.


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## Heavishot (Jun 3, 2009)

My stab has a hole in the end where the weights attach but it's smaller than the bolt hole in the riser (where the stab attaches). The hole measures 7/32" to the outside edge of the threads so whatever size bolt that is.

I was thinking of an attachment method that clamps around the stab. It looks like the BudgetMount and ValueMount attach to the Superstab this way. What's the diameter of the Superstab where the mount attaches? Would the clamp on the either of these fit my stab? My stab is 1-3/16" diameter. Again, very interested this product for my iphone if I can attach to my current stab.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

*sure*



Heavishot said:


> My stab has a hole in the end where the weights attach but it's smaller than the bolt hole in the riser (where the stab attaches). The hole measures 7/32" to the outside edge of the threads so whatever size bolt that is.
> 
> I was thinking of an attachment method that clamps around the stab. It looks like the BudgetMount and ValueMount attach to the Superstab this way. What's the diameter of the Superstab where the mount attaches? Would the clamp on the either of these fit my stab? My stab is 1-3/16" diameter. Again, very interested this product for my iphone if I can attach to my current stab.


I can make it work as long as you have a round stab.
The stab I am selling is 1". I can get something for you if you contact me at the website.It will be super cheap if you want to use your current stab but may take 1.5 weeks to get it out to you.I can also probably put together the supermount with a smaller configuration but really need to know what your actual thread size is. Talk to me on the website,if you don't mind, it will be easier for both of us.
Thanks.
fhbh


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

If there is a page 4 of this thread I cannot log in to see it, I am blocked from it.Sorry.


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## Heavishot (Jun 3, 2009)

Your last post was #1 on page 4.

I sent you a PM. I don't see anywhere on your website to contact you.


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## axeforce6 (Sep 15, 2010)

are u writing a code for iphone too?


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## bowhntng4evr (Dec 18, 2009)

That is going to be a great app for us bowhunters.


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## inline6power (May 27, 2010)

i e mailed you on this today. please keep me updated on this as i want this on my droid incredible.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

*I think that I have responded*

Let me know if you received my response. We hope to make everyones hunting experience positive...


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## inline6power (May 27, 2010)

hey i ordered one of your mounts friday. is there any way i can make sure i recive it this week? i will pay extra for shipping if need be. i am going elk hunting friday in idaho and would love to try this out. thanks. my paypal account that the money came from is fuel4thot44


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## jackh (Oct 20, 2009)

are there any rangefinding apps for iphones? that would save me a couple hundred bucks...


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't know what apps are available for the iphone. I highly doubt that there are any since the phone requires environmental input that the phone doesn't have( non of the phones do at this point).
I am developing a range finding app that works with trig and bracketing as well as gps.it is a combination of all 3 that will make it work. It has a way to go and unfortunately I haven't been able to spend much time on it due to archery season and a special Jr. Hunt ( That I will be live broadcasting tomorrow for whitetail antlerless on public grounds in Pa for a 12 yr old Jr. hunter).
Anyway, we have almost comleted development on a new generation of bow mounts that eliminate some of the problems of the older mounts (increased rigidity, and robustness) the current mounts that we have\had available are not strong enough for every day archery hunting tackle.
The new mounts are weather\waterproof and non reflective.They can take a beating and accept most every video device except older style camcorders.
The new mount is more designed for smartphones and video devices such as the Kodak PlaySport.
















It utilizes a powder filled rigid stabilizer that can be ordered in different camo to match your bow: Lost, Realtree APG, Realtree AP, Realtree Hardwoods HD, Realtree Hardwoods HD Green, Advantage Max-4, Mossy Oak New Break-up, and Mossy Oak Treestand.
The new mount is light years ahead of what is available on the market now and will be the platform for the range finder application.
Your video device is securely held in the holder (there are custom holders available for most of the current phones that do not require the universal mount) as pictured above.
The new mount is also lighter than most smartphones and video devices like the PlaySport.
It can be configured to be mounted Horiz,vert and offset and has the flexibility to be installed to ensure that there is no arrow fletching contact.
Check it out! I just took out out tonight for the first time tonight hunting deer. I didnt see any deer but did broadcast my hunt from a tripod and also had a PlaySport mounted to the bow.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

this your idea is more than just impressive,
I don't hunt, I'm a target shooter, most of my time rings and just a bit 3D as well. I am interested but still using my old fridge style cellphone. 
Will be watching you.
btw, my first hobby was a photography a whole my life, tried many tricks, her's what you might consider for future upgrades: gps data logger (U know the little gps receivers hitting points every 1 or 5 or 10 or whatever seconds you set, or how many yards to move) can sink the trip points to googlemaps or google earth, as we can see travelers-tourists uploading tons of pics from all over the world...


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

There are all kinds of things you can do right now for field archery and 3d with a smart phone.
Check it out *HERE*
Try MyTracks.It is a data logger.There are all kinds of free bow hunting and shooting applications there.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

http://forhuntersbyhunters.blogspot.com/p/bow-mount-video-and-pictures.html
Check out the bottom of the page for video shot over the last few weeks...
THe Application noted above can be found here is well...
Good luck and happy shooting and hunting!


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## pyroman_27 (Feb 4, 2003)

I've tried viewing the live streaming video and am having trouble. I followed the schedule and I clicked on "live cam" on your site. It only shows a slideshow of your photos. I got an eightpoint and a doe already and was hoping to live vicariously through your hunts, lol. Hope you can help.


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## kcadstudent (Jan 28, 2010)

Not sure about other smartphones but something to keep in mind. with Mine when I m taking pictures of video and someone calls, the video / picture is interrupted and a black incoming call screen comes up showing the number/name/pic of whoever is calling. Make sure you override this in your sight pin coding. you would hate for you to have the big monster in your sites and to have the screen go black with a picture of your wife, Just calling to see how the hunts going or if you ve seen anything, or when you ll be back, lol.  Good Luck!


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

*Bane of Public hunting...*



pyroman_27 said:


> I've tried viewing the live streaming video and am having trouble. I followed the schedule and I clicked on "live cam" on your site. It only shows a slideshow of your photos. I got an eightpoint and a doe already and was hoping to live vicariously through your hunts, lol. Hope you can help.


To be honest we have only had about a 75% success broadcast rate. Since it is live we have had obstacles that have been out of our control. We have had people post property that we have permission to hunt,car accidents, hunters setting up tree stands and scouting 3rd week archery),Muzzy hunters sitting down all around us,forgetting the bolt to a rifle,hunters driving into the middle of our set ups(most of our hunting is public land),hunters driving into the middle of our set ups(a little of our hunting is "game cooperative")...etc.
We are working to improve this success rate but realize that it is the bane of public land hunting.
Bare with us(or not, you might be arrested) but we are on about 3\4 of the time that is updated on our schedule.We thank you for your interest and your input also.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

No doubt.
We have expereinced this same failure when live broadcasting.I haven't had the time yet to determine if it is my free cell phone access from VIOP\sipdroid.google voice etc... or from typical phone calls. Code would need to be written to ensure that this wasn't an issue.


kcadstudent said:


> Not sure about other smartphones but something to keep in mind. with Mine when I m taking pictures of video and someone calls, the video / picture is interrupted and a black incoming call screen comes up showing the number/name/pic of whoever is calling. Make sure you override this in your sight pin coding. you would hate for you to have the big monster in your sites and to have the screen go black with a picture of your wife, Just calling to see how the hunts going or if you ve seen anything, or when you ll be back, lol.  Good Luck!


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)




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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

It looks a lot bigger than it is in the pictures...
THe mount weighs about 4 oz as does the phone or PlaySport


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Here then gone...


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Lots of video her in the video vault page
http://www.forhuntersbyhunters.com/


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

I am working with ateam of developers now to get the 4HxH apps rolled out.
We posted and update HERE
We will be covering the Eastern Outdoors Sportshow and will be at the event but not in a booth since we will be watching events,filming and taking pictures. We are also considering a live webfeed for some of the events like the long range bow shooting and the Guiness Book of Records bow trick shot but are still waiting for approval to do so.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

damageinc said:


> I am working with ateam of developers now to get the 4HxH apps rolled out.
> We posted and update HERE
> We will be covering the Eastern Outdoors Sportshow and will be at the event but not in a booth since we will be watching events,filming and taking pictures. We are also considering a live webfeed for some of the events like the long range bow shooting and the Guiness Book of Records bow trick shot but are still waiting for approval to do so.


HERE is an UPDATE (tAIR) on the development of the rangefinder,youfallitcalls and hunting call android platform apps for smartphones.
We will be at the show in a booth (Eastern Sportsman show) broadcasting on our live cam page(forhuntersbyhunters.com) which we intend to put a release out before the end of the week about.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Here is a video of the first application that will roll out at the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show in Harrisburg next weekend: 



The Rangefinder coding work starts in 2 weeks.
Huh, if you wanted to you could turn it on and leave it in your car- if it got towed you could set it to text you HAHA!
You can go HERE to get the App by using a bar code scanner once it is released next week (you just scan in the code on the screen and download it to your phone for FREE)
Keep up to date on the smartphone apps that we will be releasing HERE


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

Unfortunately the rangefinder has died on the vine.
THe developers do not have enough resources to complete it and the gent that I was going to work on it with has not responded , so , it is dead...
The developers didnt' believe there would be enough interest either, no matter how much I tried to persuade them
I considered making a poll to prove it. Would anyone fill out our poll to see if we can get the development group influenced?
If so, please advise @ [email protected]


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## donmega (Jan 18, 2011)

I think there is a lot of people who would be interested in this app. Make a poll in the bowhunting part of the forum. If you could make a app. that would accurately range up to 60 yards and record at the same time. People would go nuts.


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## pyroman_27 (Feb 4, 2003)

Before anyone gives up, check out "smart distance" from the market. I haven't had a chance to test it thoroughly yet, but it is a rangefinder app. If you have any input from using this or other distance measuring apps, please list it in this thread.


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## buckhead (Apr 7, 2006)

Can somebody really quickly explain to me how a phone can function as a rangefinder and be accurate? 

I don't see how it could be accurate without sending some kind of laser or other signal and measuring the time it takes to come back.


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## pyroman_27 (Feb 4, 2003)

buckhead said:


> Can somebody really quickly explain to me how a phone can function as a rangefinder and be accurate?
> 
> I don't see how it could be accurate without sending some kind of laser or other signal and measuring the time it takes to come back.


It actually uses a bracketing system similar to the rangefinders that measure the height of the animals chest. The only thing about the app is the brackets change size so it can be used at any yardage, not just the normal 10, 20, 30 etc. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but if anyone has an android phone, I'm interested in their results. It's a proven rangefinding system but adapting it to smartphones might be tricky. We'll see what happens after we get some users.


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## damageinc (Jan 28, 2010)

http://www.forhuntersbyhunters.com/2011/04/its-coming-sam-technological-revolution.html
We are talking about it again...
Bracketing and the ability to use simple math to get 'er done.
Now we have a bracket that works well on a bow that we are getting ready to release that will work with this perfectly...
It all comes down now to putting the pieces of the puzzle together...


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