# Help 2010 Martin Pantera 3/4 in nock high setting



## snoey227 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ok I have a 2010 Martin Pantera that I have been trying to paper tune with bare shaft and I have to set my nock 3/4 inch high to get bullet holes. I have never owned a single cam bow before so not sure what to do next.

My Setup: Limbdriver Rest, 28 inch GT ultra light .400, 100 grain field point, 65 lb draw weight, tru ball pro diamond release, tied knocks with d loop

arrow centered with berger hole, string ata to check tiller. Don't know what to do now.


----------



## harmonyhunter (Jun 10, 2010)

*Nock set high*

I have the same situation with a new 2010 Firecat TR1. Bullet holes but arrow at severe angle rendering the sight almost usless at longer yardage. Can someone please help both of us? Thanks.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

welcome to AT, both of you

first thing is give more details about your tears in the paper

second thing make sure you are not getting fletching contact, use lipstick on the vanes, if you're getting contact it will show up

Is your cam rotated out far enough, timed. I believe the string, when the bow is at rest, is supposed to fill up most of groove. I think you both have the acutrak cam. the string should contact the cam very near to where the letter A is incribed in the cam. i don't own a single cam bow so don't know for sure if this would cause your problem but you will get better all around performance if it is timed correctly.
if it's not you can adjust this yourself. if you don't know how let us know and it's easy enough to explain 

I heard that there is an issue with the idler wheel not rotating freely due to the spacers binding. this might cause the wheel to be sluggish and cause irregular tears. think about it, if the idler is sluggish then the cam on bottom is pulling the string down, and the nock with it.

post pics if you can of the whole setup. and a profile of both sides of the cam


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

harmonyhunter said:


> I have the same situation with a new 2010 Firecat TR1. Bullet holes but arrow at severe angle rendering the sight almost usless at longer yardage. Can someone please help both of us? Thanks.


need more info about your setup, all the details


----------



## harmonyhunter (Jun 10, 2010)

*nock high*

2010 firecat TR1 70# 31" draw set at 65# I tried a whisper biscut but the bare shaft contacted hard enough to smack the bottom of the rest next I tried a ripcord, nock way low on paper raised the nock to almost 5/16 above square to achieve clean bullet holes at 8ft. I have powder tested shaft and rest to make sure there is no unwaranted contact. You mentioned cam timing, my string leaves the cam at least 1/2" or more before the A in the word TRAC, is this what you were refering to? My string was wound very tight from the factory,It made me wonder ,why so tight? Also the draw seems shorter than I believe to be a true 31", just feels short. The arrows are7595 Pro hunters cut to 30" 125 gr. tips. Does this info help ? I shoot a scott lil goose also with a D loop


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

harmonyhunter said:


> ripcord, nock way low on paper raised the nock to almost 5/16 above square to achieve clean bullet holes at 8ft. Also the draw seems shorter than I believe to be a true 31", just feels short.


i wouldn't call 5/16" a high nock point. normally i'd set mine 3/16" and then go up or down
if your set at the 31" draw where is your draw stop located in the track? is it pushed all the way to the plus side? if it is you can either increase your release length or d-loop length if you think it would feel better.
How's it shooting? is the overall group drifting the the right or left? see post #7 in the link below
are your nock points crimp on or tied on?
what'sthe group size your getting at various ranges?

see post #15 in this thread to set your d-loop in the best position to get the groups as tight as possible
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=870318&highlight=walkback
this isn't the end however, if you are after the utmost in accuracy you can start tweaking the cam timing, draw weight, tiller
i assume by your setup heavy arrow 125g points that you are going to hunt.
so i'd go here
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460
bring coffee and a note book and read the whole thing all umpteen pages


----------



## harmonyhunter (Jun 10, 2010)

*nock high*

Thanks gbear, What do you think of my cam timing? where should the string normaly leave the cam? After your previous post about where the string leaves acu trac cam. I felt we may be on to something, extreme string twists etc. I removed the draw stop trying to get the longest draw possible. Loop is tied in. Your thoughts gbear?


----------



## harmonyhunter (Jun 10, 2010)

*nock high*

gbear I dont know why I refered to 5/16, this would be ok its at close to 3/4" maybe not quite but was close, sorry for error in description.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

I misread your other post, where you said the string is 1/2" ahead of the A. I'm glad you brought it up cause i read it as 1/2" of groove showing. You need to bring the cam around till there is about 1/2" of grooving showing. 

You really need to put the draw stop in. It's really important, and the cam timing being what it is, is probalby why you say it doesn't feel like 31". but it should when we get through here.

Now assuming that you don't have bow press, you can relax the limb bolts alternating about 3 turns at a time till you are about 12-14 turns out from bottom. The limb bolts thread into a barrel nut and the bolt threads can be viewed from the side through the barrel nut. Just back the bolts out till you can see some daylight. 
pay attention to how the string and cable are routed.

Now would be a good time to measure the string and cable and see how close they are to the factory spec length. 
Put one end of the sting on a nail or a 1/4" dowel and hook your tape measure to the nail. stretch it out with a nail in the other loop and measure to the nail. Inside of the one loop to the inside of the other loop.

I would set the string length to the factory spec by adding twists or taking some out. your string should be 90". close doesn't count. if it's 90.25" then wind it up to 90". And go by what your bow tag says not what i pulled off of the website. 
back to cam timing
Take the cable loose and add some twist to it.
by adding twist to the cable you are rotating the cam into the string more and reducing the amount of groove that is showing.
Add 2-4 twists at first and put it back together. What did it do? as you get closer to 1/2" of groove that we established you'll be putting only 1/2 or 1 twist at a time. 
You may relax and tighten the limbs several times to do this.
Keep in mind that while you are shortening the cable by adding twists, that at the same time you are shortening your draw length. that is why i want you to start at the factory specified string length. i want you to be aware that this is happening, but let's not worry about that right now, we'll come back to this if need be.
Here's a pic of 09 moab, you can see the cam is wound up into the string, this is what we are trying to achieve.

Something else i want you to do before you start all this is to measure the axle to axle length and the brace height. let's see what it is now and how much it changes. As you tweak it, it will get closer and closer to spec.
can you post up a pic of each side of your cam, close up.


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

I should have said this too.
If you find your string is excessively short, since you said it was twisted alot, if you have to make it longer to get it to spec that will also casue the cam to rotate into the string some.
hopefully i've described all of this for you that you can see how the relationship between cam, cable and string is working.


----------



## harmonyhunter (Jun 10, 2010)

*nock high*

Thank you so much gbear its great your taking your time to help ill get back soon . Thanks again PS.I do have a press this will make it much faster


----------



## harmonyhunter (Jun 10, 2010)

*nock high*

gbear, WOW, axle to axe was way short, string was 3/4" short of 90" untwisted to 90" reinstalled,axle to axle now 1/16 short Maybe 1/32 almost perfect. draw length feels much much improved. I will reinstall the draw stop as I now see a function it may perform unlike before. Im still not to the point in cam wrap you want me to be at, should I add twists to the cable to bring it to the A in TRACwhich should be 1/2" short of grove end as instructed? I cant wait to get to the point of resetting nock pt, peep, etc. I feel like you saved this bow and shooters enjoyment with this product. Thanks again


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

let's try this again, i lost my connection to AT when i hit submit last time, shabbat always does this to me here

That's good to know. Check the cable length and set it to spec also, 34.5" or whatever your sticker is marked.
This will be a nice place fresh place to start from, with the ATA and BH set very close to martin specs. 
It is a single cam bow and it may shoot just fine with the cam where it is now. BUT single cams have their sweet spot too, just like dual and hybrid cams. When you find that sweet spot, that's when the bow will perform as martin has described it to. So let's find it. do you have a chronograph?

for now though let's concentrate on the original problem. What does the paper tell you now?


----------



## trkydwn (Feb 8, 2010)

*Pantera 2010*

Got a 2010 Pantera. Was happy all year long till i decided to check the tuning with paper. This bow seems to tear nock low no matter how its adjusted. Moved nock as high as 1/2" and was still tearing low, changed vanes, changed rest, coated vanes and checked for contact, moved cam in and out, shot with differant grips, tried shooting with a loop and directly from the string, used 100gr points, used 125s, shot 400 spine arrows and 350s...still A LOW TEAR!.......Was fine with the way it shot before but now I know its not shooting right it bothers me and I will blame that on all my mistakes!...lol. At my wits end guys. Any help will be appreciated. set at about 65# 29" arrow. I really like this bow...exept for the $&*# low tear!


----------



## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

gbear, I have been following this thread closely so I, too, may learn something and I am. However, you made one error in post #9. When you twist the cables to shorten them you increase the bow's draw length, not shorten it. Other than that you have been spot-on. I now will defer back to you. Nice job with the explanations.


----------



## trkydwn (Feb 8, 2010)

Went to the bow shop yesterday and after working on everything from adjustments to shooting form, to arrow changes, to release changes......the bow shop gave up and said...come back again sometime when we have more time...lol. Still the same low tear....but two things I have learned in life are....consistancy is important and there is nothing wrong with a flinch as long as you do it exactly the same every time!


----------



## gbear (May 30, 2009)

trkydwn said:


> Went to the bow shop yesterday and after working on everything from adjustments to shooting form, to arrow changes, to release changes......the bow shop gave up and said...come back again sometime when we have more time...lol. Still the same low tear....but two things I have learned in life are....consistancy is important and there is nothing wrong with a flinch as long as you do it exactly the same every time!


Well, I assume that since you are on this thread that you have read it and your bow is in spec and that you have read the other threads that i posted links to. At what distances have you shot thru the paper? Tell us more about your setup, your arrows, your rest, release, draw length, draw weight, etc; leave no details to assumption. Post up a pic if you can, close up of the cam too. I'll be out hunting so may not be able to get back to you very quickly, but maybe someone else will.

thanks for the correction, bfisher.


----------



## trkydwn (Feb 8, 2010)

Update.....bottom limb broke on my Pantera at full draw. Scratch on my forehead and a little cut on my knee. Took it back to dealer and he received new limbs 4 days later. He put it together and the 2nd time he drew it back...bottem limb snapped and destryed the cam and rest. He decided to send it back to Martin and they called Thursday and offered me a new Onza 3. Never shot one but, I lost faith in that piticular Pantera so I took it. Waiting for its arrival. Thanks for all the posts.

Sam


----------



## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

should get an 2006 pantera with the 2008 m pro cam style so you have the external stop. Im still shooting mine and im on my 3 set of limbs 2 set of cams and 5 set of string but the dang thing just keeps on pounding Xs so I refuse to put the dang thing down


----------



## trkydwn (Feb 8, 2010)

what kind of rest do you shoot?


----------

