# Garbage in my shooting



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

A few years ago I made the decision that I was done justifying garbage, it took me two good years of training and I finally got rid of all of it. Some things were easy and some were really hard but in the end once I got rid of all the garbage in my shooting I really took off.


1. Shooting form garbage

2. Mental approach garbage

3. Training or drill garbage

4. Game plan garbage

5. course management garbage

6. Equipment garbage

7. shot execution garbage

Each one of those seven areas had multiple pieces of garbage in them and some of them were being told to me by shooting buddies and some of them were just things that I always knew where there but I just allowed them to happen. What is really cool is that some of them rose to the surface as I got rid of others and had been hiding quietly all along. 

The cool thing was that one of the last pieces of garbage that I cleaned up was draw length, it was something that I knew was important but I just always avoided letting it be something important that I kept track of. I became a 60x shooter and shot 300 29x vegas rounds and became a semi pro asa guy all without ever knowing what my draw length really was. I simply had my bow in the 29 inch mod setting and never checked it or knew if I was a little shorter than 29 or longer than 29. I did notice a change from time to time when putting on a new string set or tuning my bow or something but I never spent the 5 minutes to make a mark on my draw board to know what my draw length was.

This is what garbage is and to allow something like this exist in your shooting is absolutely stupid especially when you are putting your whole life into something and trying to compete at a high level. Like I said I took a step back and looked in the mirror and made the decision to stop justifying all these stupid things in my areas that I listed out above, there were many just like the draw length issue some worse and some not as bad but when you look at your shooting and all the areas it adds up quickly and becomes a big stinking pile of garbage that is rotting and smelling up the place.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

One huge piece of garbage that I hate that is in my shooting is the lack of a asa range, it absolutely kills me to be told by the top 3d shooters in the world and top amateur shooters that having a full range of asa targets is the key to guessing the distance and competing at the asa level. This one I am working on and I hate it that it is a property thing and 4000 dollar not in my pocket thing.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, some Pros dip deeper in their pockets. I know Jack Wallace has McKenzie ranges and when IBO went with Rinehart there he was buying a whole range of Rineharts. Yep, size, angle, attention of detail gives that extra edge. 

Most I ever had was 14 McKenzies and 2 Delta targets. Sold off all but one for broadhead practice. I got these cheap when clubs put them up 4 sale and repair kits were cheap back then. Imagine a Delta Grizzly or Buffalo for $50 each. Most I ever paid was $75 for a African lion. Deer, $20 and $25. A $50 kit would repair bunches of targets and I repaired 135 targets with 5 kits. Now kits are at rip off costs.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Padgett said:


> things that I always knew where there but I just allowed them to happen.


#1 ^^^


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

This looks like it has the potential to be a great thread. :thumbs_up

Can you explain a little more about your experience in getting rid of the garbage? 

Thanks,
Allen


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Yeah really, I have garbage in all of those areas lol. 
The main garbage for me at the moment is #6, namely trying to commit to a particular bow. I have several, each with their pluses and minuses, but to really get back to a practice routine I'm going to have to commit to just one of them. My Hoyt and PSEs shoot differently enough that I lose a little bit going back and forth from one to the other. And the maintenance - particularly keeping good strings on them - is a big enough job that I want to fully equip for just one. It's getting expensive to maintain a wall full of bows and it's a lot of work figuring out my jig settings, twists, etc. and chasing all the spools of serving, bowsting and so on for all these strings and cables.

The other is the class, currently I can't decide between Bowhunter Freestyle and full freestyle. But I'm not quite yet a good enough shot to shoot regular freestyle better than I shoot setup as BHFS with a pin in the sight and a 12" stab. So still flipping that coin: do I go ahead and invest in getting better in full FS or do I have fun in BHFS for a while with a nice lightweight, simple bow that I can shoot easily with both eyes open (due to just a pin)?

And now that winter is coming, a place to shoot is going to be hard to find here as well...

DM


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## pathogan (Jul 7, 2015)

So I want to know what your real draw length ended up as?


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

Very interesting thread. 

I've decided to "clean up" my draw length once and for all too. For a while, I've known it's pretty close, but not quite right. In fact, my bow press arrived literally just yesterday [TGIF!] so I can finally spend the time at home to get everything just right. Next step will be to order a nice pile of weight for my stabs, but with no presumption of how much final weight I'll use - I just want to be sure I have whatever I will need.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

LMacD said:


> Very interesting thread.
> 
> I've decided to "clean up" my draw length once and for all too. For a while, I've known it's pretty close, but not quite right. In fact, my bow press arrived literally just yesterday [TGIF!] so I can finally spend the time at home to get everything just right. Next step will be to order a nice pile of weight for my stabs, but with no presumption of how much final weight I'll use - I just want to be sure I have whatever I will need.


On the weights, get a bolt the fits your stab and buy a bunch of inexpensive fender washers. Get bow where you want, weigh all, bolt and washers and then weigh them. You can then buy stab weights that you need and not spend money on those expensive stab weights. If for just one bow I've got way too many, but have a another target bow coming. Also, consider the all in one weights, like 4 and 8 ounces as they are cheaper than individual one ounce weights (3 to a package).


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## pathogan (Jul 7, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> On the weights, get a bolt the fits your stab and buy a bunch of inexpensive fender washers. Get bow where you want, weigh all, bolt and washers and then weigh them. You can then buy stab weights that you need and not spend money on those expensive stab weights. If for just one bow I've got way too many, but have a another target bow coming. Also, consider the all in one weights, like 4 and 8 ounces as they are cheaper than individual one ounce weights (3 to a package).


That's a good idea.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I know of one that kept the bolts and washers. He just spray painted them black. Looks great.


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> On the weights, get a bolt the fits your stab and buy a bunch of inexpensive fender washers. Get bow where you want, weigh all, bolt and washers and then weigh them. You can then buy stab weights that you need and not spend money on those expensive stab weights. If for just one bow I've got way too many, but have a another target bow coming. Also, consider the all in one weights, like 4 and 8 ounces as they are cheaper than individual one ounce weights (3 to a package).


Consider this idea implemented as of this evening  Thanks for the tip!


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I still have several on the list.
MAIN garbage, time and place to shoot. Shooting in garage is OK at best, but after a while you get sick of the 8 yard game. For now its still quite useful.
Draw board to measure/set draw length....need one of those.
Gear issue. Need to break down and spend the $$$ on a bow that fits me properly (DL, ATA, and Grip), maybe consolidate a couple bows into getting the one true bow for me.
Execution garbage....the reason garage shooting is still useful for me....and the reason I need the draw board.
But #1 by FAR.... finding time to shoot more.


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

Mahly said:


> Shooting in garage is OK at best, but after a while you get sick of the 8 yard game. For now its still quite useful.


Very true: I recently "won out" of the 8 yard game [call me simple, but 300 29x Vegas games feel good even at a reduced distance] and now am at the 10.5 yard game. I'm doing Griv's progressive games thing this fall/winter, albeit with more "stages". My limit will be 14 yards - cross corners. But yes, really useful! Blank baling was great to work through target panic, but I believe that Griv is bang on that you have to actually shoot aimed shots to truly ingrain the techniques, and those are best done up close. That said, I'm just a chooch and don't claim to know squat, but it's working so far


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Mahly said:


> I still have several on the list.
> MAIN garbage, time and place to shoot. Shooting in garage is OK at best, but after a while you get sick of the 8 yard game. For now its still quite useful.
> Draw board to measure/set draw length....need one of those.
> Execution garbage....the reason garage shooting is still useful for me....and the reason I need the draw board.
> But #1 by FAR.... finding time to shoot more.


I'm in the same boat. Daylight Savings Time is ending this weekend and my shooting in a local public park after work will come to an end. My basement is only 7 yards and I need a new target. I think I'll literally take out the garbage target and get a new one this weekend. 

I wish getting the garbage out of my execution was as easy as the garbage in the basement.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I actually do not know my draw length number measured and adding 1.75, I spend time working on my draw length by experimenting on my float pattern and also my ability to score well and I kept track on my hooter shooter by making pencil or sharpie marks. Over the last winter I found one setting that just seemed to give me the strongest shooting and I have settled on it as my draw length.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Here is a great example how some garbage exists in your shooting for years and hides, it is one of the reasons that I work so hard to teach archery here on archery talk the way I do with my articles and participation in the threads. 

GARBAGE IN MY GRIP:

When I first got a hinge release I was excited and I started shooting with it, I had no knowledge and no guidance so it was a suffer fest to say the least. In fact within a couple weeks my fingers hurt and I had two blisters that were so freaking sore that I simply had to get rid of that hinge, I gave it to a buddy of mine and I got my hands on a bigger bulkier rounded off hinge that I could use without so much pain and no blisters. My fingers still hurt but not as bad, over the next few years I suffered with learning to execute my shot from day to day and the dang speed of the hinge just seemed to change for no stinking reason and I would have to change the speed often. Also I had to force myself to focus really hard on my grip and making sure it was perfect every day and even during my shooting because it had to be exactly the same all the time and I really struggled to pull that perfection off.

The garbage in this case was a grip of the hinge that started off as fear, I was scared of hinges and getting punched in the face with misfires and so I clinched it with muscle tension in my forearm and fingers and tried to force it to be safe and consistent. 

Muscle tension in your hand does slow down the hinge but the problem is that from day to day it is hard to produce the same amount of muscle tension and even through out a scoring round or 3d tournament your grip will change with fatigue and nerves and every thing else going on. 

Now the cool thing is that the more you relax and use a totally soft hand and forearm and a j-hook grip on the hinge you make the hinge faster and in fact this is the fastest setting you can have. 

You really need to read that last sentence over and over and think about it really hard and try and understand it because it is a huge concept to hinge shooting that you must get into your head. Why? Because I just gave you a huge hint to how to set up a hinge with no garbage in it because with a soft hand that is a limit to the influence your hand has on your hinge speed, by choosing to set up your hinge with a soft hand you are guaranteed that your hand can't screw up things by making it any faster, if you do have some muscle tension in your hand and forearm it is only going to slow the hinge down which is not good but not a misfire either. Then all you have to do is always remind yourself to have that soft hand and you know exactly where you are at instead of trying to find some middle of the road muscle tension from day to day. 

This garbage in my grip of the hinge slowed me down in the beginning and then it hampered me in the middle of my journey all the way up to last winter when n7709k mentioned shooting with a soft hand, at that time I had already shot probably 70 or so 60x rounds and a 300 29x vegas round and earned the right to be a semi pro asa guy. This garbage hampered me all that time and I was unaware of it being there or that it was a problem, sure I had issues, sure I tried to understand those issues and find a solution to them. Problem is that nothing seemed to work to solve them or get rid of them or even understand them. Then when I took my favorite hinge one day and I turned my moon really slow and I simply drew back a few time with a totally soft hand, it felt great and then I started speeding up the moon following my old trusty hinge setup routine and for the first time ever I had a hinge set up with a soft hand. All I can say is that all those issues vanished and my overall hinge shooting took another step forward.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Here is another one of my favorites:

"The Decision"

I while back I just decided that I was no longer going to knowingly send a poor arrow to the target, when I come to anchor and settle in and something is wrong I simply let down. I don't care how important that shot is, I don't care what the reason is I refuse to continue with a shot when I already know that something isn't right. Most of the time it is because my firing engine has ran for a while and hasn't fired the release and I am to the end of my normal shot window and at that moment I could choose to add some extra pressure and get rid of the arrow or I could let down and take a deep breath and execute a good shot. It could be that there is some glare and I need to ask for a umbrella or maybe some idiot is telling a nasty joke when I am at full draw. Who cares, what the reason is the fact is I have the choice to let down and not allow the arrow to leave the bow.


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

I thought you liked my jokes,you sure as hell laugh a lot at them. Lol Not my fault you can't shoot thru them.Lmao


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

???


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Padgett said:


> ......or maybe some idiot is telling a nasty joke when I am at full draw.





D.Short said:


> I thought you liked my jokes,you sure as hell laugh a lot at them. Lol Not my fault you can't shoot thru them.Lmao





Mahly said:


> ???


They shoot together.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Ahhhh, got it.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

D.Short said:


> I thought you liked my jokes,you sure as hell laugh a lot at them. Lol Not my fault you can't shoot thru them.Lmao


Don't let up on him. If you did he'd get to thinking you didn't like him


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

Don't worry Sonny,I have no intentions of letting up on him,he deserves every bit of grief I can give him.LOL


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

D.short and I usually shoot around 40 local shoots per year together and I don't think a day goes by that someones private parts aren't threatened.

My favorite is about 3 years ago I went and got a soda right before we started a local shoot, when I got back everyone was giggling and grinning and for the next 6 targets they had something going on and I couldn't figure out what it was. Finally I zipped open my 3d stool to get out my snack and there was a huge piece of cinder block in my stool that I had been carrying the whole time. It was freaking huge, not quite half a block but freaking close enough that it weighed a ton. 

Needless to say when I zipped open and saw the cinder block in my stool they died laughing at me and started showing me how I had been straining to lift it.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

We have a interesting group:

1. All of us came from target panic. 

2. All of us came from back yard shooting and hunting with a bow.

3. All of us went to a few local 3d shoots and had a blast.

Each one of us has progressed at a different rate, I was the first one to have some success and then Jason and then Donnie. During those years spent on the 3d courses it has been nothing but fun, we laugh and tell jokes and make fun of each other all day long and it is beyond awesome to have that much fun at my age. 

Just over a year ago I can remember when Jason had been getting way better and becoming a strong shooter and I had a feeling he was going to beat me sooner or later and then one day he did it. This year he we traded off winning but he won more than I did and actually won the state asa shooting the highest unknown score of any class. Donnie had his day also, I had never seen him shoot the highest score on any course but in the spring we showed up to one of our local shoots and Donnie shot 18 up on a really tough course, it was a score that was so solid that even if jason and I had a good day we might not shoot that high.

Donnie right now is actually going through a training phase for the first time with me, I had really never worked with him on his shooting even though we shoot all the time and just a couple weeks ago he shot a 300 57x 5-spot round which was a best for him.

We have came a long way and have no intentions of stopping anytime soon either having fun or getting better on the range, together as a group we work on playing the 3d game most of all and really don't work on shooting together.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Padgett said:


> D.short and I usually shoot around 40 local shoots per year together and I don't think a day goes by that someones private parts aren't threatened.
> 
> My favorite is about 3 years ago I went and got a soda right before we started a local shoot, when I got back everyone was giggling and grinning and for the next 6 targets they had something going on and I couldn't figure out what it was. Finally I zipped open my 3d stool to get out my snack and there was a huge piece of cinder block in my stool that I had been carrying the whole time. It was freaking huge, not quite half a block but freaking close enough that it weighed a ton.
> 
> Needless to say when I zipped open and saw the cinder block in my stool they died laughing at me and started showing me how I had been straining to lift it.


Well, with the "turkeys" I've shot with you might be looking for your bow or stabilizer. I can't remember the times someone told me they saw that my arrow nock was loose and tightened it up for me. And always is someone telling the yardage, the wrong yardage.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Padgett said:


> We have a interesting group:
> 
> 1. All of us came from target panic.
> 
> ...


I ain't never had target panic....maybe a glitch, but not target panic.


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

Good thread and some good food for thought.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

In that one post I was referring to "us" as my 3d group that I shoot with not the guys in this thread as coming from target panic.


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