# Blended vs Non-Blended Smackdown



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

With a couple new HMPE materials available from BCY and Brownell I wanted to see how they matched up with the tried and true 452X (actually used Trophy for the test)

The contenders: Dynaflight 10 and Astroflight vs Trophy

To start, I made 3 strings as close to being the same as I could, using a defined step by step process to make them.

The Bow:
Mathews Ovex (Converted Ovation w/Apex cams)
56# 28" 
String 98.25" 
Cable 42" (To insure consistency, I used the original 452X cable for initial build/testing)

The build/testing process:
1. Set jig to 1% over finished spec (99.25")
2. Lay string on jig. (strands = 22 Trophy, 16 D10, 16 Astro)
3. Tag end process (all 3 strings completed before step 4 start)
4. Switch to string stretcher attachment
5. Install string and bring to 100#
6. Add 70 twists 
7. Add 20 turns on stretcher
8. Bring back to 100# and measure
9. Add twists as required to bring to 98.25"
10. Add 20 turns on stretcher
11. Install center serving
12. Bring back to 100# and measure
13. Add twists if needed
14. Remove string from jig and install on bow
15. Shoot 10 arrows to settle string
16. Shoot 10 arrows through cronograph
17. Shoot 100 arrows 
18. Remove string and measure end result

The findings are interesting. Trophy had the best initial creep resistance with D10 and Astro a dead tie for second place. In fact, D10 and Astro tested very similar in all steps of the process. 

Initial Creep during build: 
Trophy had only 3 twists added @ step 9 and 2 more @ step 13
Astroflight had 13 twists added @ step 9 and 3 more @ step 13.
Dynaflight 10 had 13 twists added @ step 9 and 3 more @ step 13

Speed test:
Trophy (high/low/avg) 258.3/255.3/256.9
Astro (high/low/avg) 261.2/257.9/259.6
D-10 (high/low/avg) 262.9/259.9/261.1

100 shot stability test: Dynaflight 10 and Astroflight passed this with flying colors with no movement after 100 shots. Unfortunately, I cut a strand on the Trophy string during the speed testing (hazard of no serving on cam) so I could not perform the 100 shot test. Since the stability of Trophy is well established, I will make the assumption that the Trophy would have held up as well after 100 shots...

After this initial phase of testing I finished the build of the Astro string, made a 20 strand cable with Astro and installed them on the bow. I then went to the club and shot a full field round after a few practice arrows. During the second half I noticed that I was hitting consistently low with my groups at all distances. It should be noted that I had the same result with the D-10 string on my Triumph so no surprise here. The D-10 has held up since an initial sight adjustment though.

This morning I shot the bow through the crono and experienced a 4 fps loss since yesterday. That would explain the low shots but the bow looks to be where I had set it. I'm not sure what is the cause is here but I have had this experience before without finding a specific cause.

All in all, the 3 materials performed well in the cool temp of my cellar and the 63 degrees of yesterday. I am concerned that the initial creep displayed with both of the 100% HMPE materials during the build process may continue in the hot weather and/or with bows with longer draw lengths and/or more draw weight, as the test bow is only 28'/56#... Only time will tell on this... or if anyone has a suggestion as to how I can test the heat resistance of these materials I'm open to suggestion.

I also found it very interesting that the Dynaflight 10 and the Astroflight materials tested almost exactly the same. If I had to guess I would say they are both Dyneema SK-78? They certainly look to be the same...

Lastly, thanks to exwolverine for supplying the Astro for the test.


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## kwilde (Jul 10, 2006)

Great review! Thanks for all the effort, I have been using trophy but considering switching completely over to astro or D10. I may stick with trophy after reading this.


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

Great review. It took me a long time to get used to the initial creep of the astro. I still don't understand how it can creep so much at first and remain stable on the bow. From what I've heard D10 and astro are pretty much the same materials. I haven't used any D10 for comparison though.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

60X said:


> Great review. It took me a long time to get used to the initial creep of the astro. I still don't understand how it can creep so much at first and remain stable on the bow. From what I've heard D10 and astro are pretty much the same materials. I haven't used any D10 for comparison though.


Yes, the Dynaflight 10 seems to be the same on all counts, and is also holding up well on my other bow. That initial creep of both does raise concerns though... I'm trying to come up with a process for putting some heat to them to see how they hold up. As we all know, the straight, non-blendeds have had difficulty in the hot weather. Nothing moves this time of year and the tests were performed for the most part at under 60 degrees.

I do hope they hold up though, I do like the durability of the non-blends. But... stability takes priority over all else IMO.


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## RonS. (Mar 28, 2009)

EPLC, Thanks for all that work and good reiview, Very interesting. How does 8125 stack up against these new matials , I never had any problems with 8125 and 18 strands of 8125 was always a few FPS faster than 22 strands of 452x . I just build strings for myself and if i don't have to buy new material that would good. Anybody still use 8125 ? Thanks Ron


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

Leave you bows in the car if you get a nice sunny day. That should be a pretty good test.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

EPLC
Dude this is great stuff! I love it when a problem is approach scientifically keep up the good work. Another data bit I would like to see is the poundage of the bow after you changed out the strings. Did you confirm you were still at 56# before each speed test?

On the low shooting arrows I would guess that the creep on the cables shortened your draw slightly affecting the draw weight and arrow speed but just a guess on my part.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

b0w_bender said:


> EPLC
> Dude this is great stuff! I love it when a problem is approach scientifically keep up the good work. Another data bit I would like to see is the poundage of the bow after you changed out the strings. Did you confirm you were still at 56# before each speed test?
> 
> On the low shooting arrows I would guess that the creep on the cables shortened your draw slightly affecting the draw weight and arrow speed but just a guess on my part.


Yes, I confirmed the DW (and everything else) before testing each material. I went so far as to not serve the strings, with the exception of center serving to keep everything as close as possible. I even counted the rotation of the center serving to keep all on the up & up. I wanted to make sure this was a test of the material alone without any other factors coming into play. I'm quite confident that I got everything very, very close. If you take out the low shot of the Astro, it would come very close to the D-10 speed. I'm convinced D-10 and Astro are basically the same material. I agree that the cable could be the issue with the low shots. I did change out the cable before going to the range for one made of Astro. Seemed like a good idea at the time but sticking with the 452X cable probably would have been a better choice. It does raise the concern about Astro (or D-10) for cables. On my Triumph I'm using D-10 for the string but stuck with Trophy for the cable. I did swap out the cables on that bow and had a similar low shot issue. As mentioned, a sight adjustment was all that was needed to get that bow back on track. There was no speed loss with that one though so I have no clue what happened there.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

"Kids Dont try this at home"

Unless you want to test your limbs out...I assume you were joking, because I didnt see a smiley 



60X said:


> Leave you bows in the car if you get a nice sunny day. That should be a pretty good test.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

RonS. said:


> EPLC, Thanks for all that work and good reiview, Very interesting. How does 8125 stack up against these new matials , I never had any problems with 8125 and 18 strands of 8125 was always a few FPS faster than 22 strands of 452x . I just build strings for myself and if i don't have to buy new material that would good. Anybody still use 8125 ? Thanks Ron


I can only assume that 8125 will perform only slightly different than the D-10 or the Astro. 8125 is SK-75 and the others are SK-78... with SK-78 being the better grade of Dyneema. 8125 is also a smaller diameter material so that may play into the mix. I'm going to pass on testing the 8125 as there is a lot of work involved here. I do have some experience with 8125 though since I built quite a few strings with it quite a few years ago. I was shooting it on a Mathews Z-Max without any issues but my friend with the 30" DL had problems with it in the summer. I don't expect anything has changed from then until now.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ex-wolverine said:


> "Kids Dont try this at home"
> 
> Unless you want to test your limbs out...I assume you were joking, because I didnt see a smiley


Obviously a worry wort


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I did not shoot yesterday so the bow has been sitting in my cool celler for more than 24 hours. I just removed the Astro string and measured it at 100# to see the result after shooting the field round and sitting for a while. The original string was 98.250 and it measured 98.375 this morning. Even though it was only 1/8" this is not what I was hoping for. Just to see what would happen if I put more stress on the string, I added 20 turns on the stretcher and then backed off to 100# again. The string actually moved another 1/8". This does concern me. Right now the string is on the stretcher in a relaxed state. I'm going to leave it there for a couple hours to see if it will recover.


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## PDB Strings (May 13, 2010)

what did the trophy string measure?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

PDB Strings said:


> what did the trophy string measure?


The Trophy wasn't measured at this point due to a strand cut early in the process. But neither of the HMPE materials had moved during the first phase of the testing. Since I have the Astro on the stretcher now I'm going to see what it measures @ 10:00 EDT after sitting for a couple of hours. At that point I will let it sit for several days at 100#. Each day I'll take a measurement, record it, and then adjust back to 100# if needed. When this test is done I'll go through the same cycle with the blended material. After the blended, I'll do the D-10.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I just brought the stretcher back to 100# and took a measurement. The string had recovered the 1/8" from this morning and is now back to 98 3/8". Each day I'll take a measurement @ 100# and record the results here.


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## SILVATICUS (Jan 18, 2008)

A heat gun and thermometer will test the effects of heat on the strings. The thermometer on the near side of the string will record an accurate temp that's coming in contact with the string/ cable. They say cars Can reach 160° plus


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SILVATICUS said:


> A heat gun and thermometer will test the effects of heat on the strings. The thermometer on the near side of the string will record an accurate temp that's coming in contact with the string/ cable. They say cars Can reach 160° plus


A good suggestion but I think it would be hard to control the heat.


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## RonS. (Mar 28, 2009)

EPLC, Thanks again for your work. I might stay with 452x for my own strings for now , or get a set of vapor trails..... Ron


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> I just brought the stretcher back to 100# and took a measurement. The string had recovered the 1/8" from this morning and is now back to 98 3/8". Each day I'll take a measurement @ 100# and record the results here.


After sitting under 100# tension for 21 1/2 hours in a constent 60 degrees the Astro string has moved another 1/16+ of an inch. As soon as I can get some time I will build another Trophy string (same process) and put it through the testing to this point. I see no value of continuing this portion of the testing with Astro before I have tested Trophy and Dynaflight 10 to this point. The Astro string has moved almost 1/4" since the conclusion of the first part of the test.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

PDB Strings said:


> what did the trophy string measure?


Yesterday I made another Trophy string/cable with full serving and shot it in down in the cellar. As expected, I experienced no movement. Today I went to the club and shot a full field round, as I did with the Astro string/cable. I just removed the string from the bow and measured it at 100#. The string was dead on 98 1/4", showing no movement. I'll leave it at 100# for a while, but I don't expect to see any changes.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Yesterday I made another Trophy string/cable with full serving and shot it in down in the cellar. As expected, I experienced no movement. Today I went to the club and shot a full field round, as I did with the Astro string/cable. I just removed the string from the bow and measured it at 100#. The string was dead on 98 1/4", showing no movement. I'll leave it at 100# for a while, but I don't expect to see any changes.


As expected, no movement this morning with the Trophy. I made another Dynaflight 10 string using the same process and shot it in last night. This morning I finished the setup and will be shooting some field later today. This morning I'll put the original D-10 on the stretcher @ 100# and measure it again tomorrow. This, along with the result of shooting some field with the D-10 today, will be the final phase of the test.


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

Interesting stuff you're posting EPLC. 

I was hesitant to go to Astro Flight for a while because I have had such good luck with 452X and Trophy, but I put a lot of trust into ex-wolverine and I can say that after about 6 weeks of good shooting on the Astro Flight strings, I have experienced ZERO movement. Specs have all stayed the same, cam timing hasn't changed, and poundage has been the same since the day I put them on. 

My testing is done on the bow, because the strings don't do anything for me when they are sitting on the jig or the bench. I wouldn't hesitate to put Astro, 452X or Trophy on any of my bows.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

EPLC said:


> I made another Trophy string/cable with full serving and shot it in down in the cellar.
> I experienced no movement.
> I went to the club and shot a full field round,
> I removed the string and measured it at 100#.
> The string was dead on 98 1/4", showing no movement.



Excellent review; very informative.

Based on your reports, it looks like Trophy is the clear leader; specifically for those 
selling strings/cables to customers (Less Twist, Less Creep more consistency).

You also did not make identical strings based on Strand Count:

22 Trophy
16 D10
16 Astro
my guess is you used knocks on hand and sized the string accordingly. Do you have
knocks to fit the 16 strand Trophy string? 

You also mentioned, "made another Trophy string/cable with full serving and shot it 
down in the cellar." What was the chronograph/Speed Test readings for this new set?

I'd be happy in donating materials or cash to your testing.


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## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

The reason the trophy is a different stand count is because trophy is a smaller diameter od string material. This is a great thread though, thanks for sharing!!!!



incendiaerus said:


> Excellent review; very informative.
> 
> Based on your reports, it looks like Trophy is the clear leader; specifically for those
> selling strings/cables to customers (Less Twist, Less Creep more consistency).
> ...


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

deerhunter81 said:


> The reason the trophy is a different stand count is because trophy is a smaller diameter od string material. This is a great thread though, thanks for sharing!!!!


Bingo. 16 strands of Trophy would be unsafe and 22 of Astro would be too big. Finished diameters are probably about the same the way EPLC has it set up now. My Astro Flight set is an 18 strand string, 20 strand cables. I believe my Trophy is 22 strands all around. I know my 452X is 24 all around.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

16 strands of Astro and Dynaflight 10 are the manufactures recommended number, as is 22 for Trophy. They all produce about the same diameter string.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

The Dynaflight string I made yesterday performed well through a full round of field with no noticeable problems, low shots, etc. I did not remove the string from the bow to measure because I intend on using the bow and it is shooting quite well. If there was any movement of the string, I can't pick up on it on the bow. Speed is the same (255 fps with full serving, peep) as it was when I set it up, as is the mark I put on the cam, poundage, brace and ATA. The other D-10 string has been on the stretcher since yesterday and a measurement this morning shows about a 1/32" movement. I'm leaving it on the stretcher to see if the movement, although slight, continues. 

While the Trophy is the obvious stability winner, the Dynaflight 10 is looking like a very close second. I will say that both of the non-blended materials did produce a nice string with no peep movement, while the Trophy string had a consistent 1/16 twist of the peep. I find that this is common with blended materials, at least with (my) very long strings (short strings give me no problems). There are many factors to consider as to why this is, but a consistent 1/16 rotation of a peep isn't anything to loose sleep over. As far as cables are concerned, it's Trophy all the way.

The only question remaining is: "Will the non-blended materials hold up in the heat?". Summer is a coming.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> After sitting under 100# tension for 21 1/2 hours in a constent 60 degrees the Astro string has moved another 1/16+ of an inch. As soon as I can get some time I will build another Trophy string (same process) and put it through the testing to this point. I see no value of continuing this portion of the testing with Astro before I have tested Trophy and Dynaflight 10 to this point. The Astro string has moved almost 1/4" since the conclusion of the first part of the test.


I just removed the D-10 string from the stretcher as there was no more movement since this morning. I put the Astro string back on the stretcher and measured it at 100#. After sitting relaxed for a couple days the additional 1/16"+ (actually around .100) had recovered back to 98 3/8" so it would seem that we are dealing with some stretch after the initial 1/8" creep. For those that do not know the difference, stretch will move but then recover, creep will be there to stay. 

This time I'll leave it on the stretcher for a while, or at least long enough for it to stop moving.


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## Mathews4ever (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks that was great to read I am new to string building and have been using Astro getting some trophy soon might end up stciking with that all though I haven't seen any problems with it on my bow and only had about 1/4" of rotation to it. I love to read posts like this because I learn so much


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

My preference is using 100% materials, same for servings:


BCY D10	.016 dia. @ 115 lbs.	100% SK78 Dyneema

BCY D97	.016 dia. @ 110 lbs. 100% SK75 Dyneema


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> I just removed the D-10 string from the stretcher as there was no more movement since this morning. I put the Astro string back on the stretcher and measured it at 100#. After sitting relaxed for a couple days the additional 1/16"+ (actually around .100) had recovered back to 98 3/8" so it would seem that we are dealing with some stretch after the initial 1/8" creep. For those that do not know the difference, stretch will move but then recover, creep will be there to stay.
> 
> This time I'll leave it on the stretcher for a while, or at least long enough for it to stop moving.


After 22 hours at 100# the Astro string stretched 1/8" of an inch and measured 98 1/2". Since we have a nice partly sunny day here in the low 70's I thought the car/heat test would be worth a shot. I installed the Astro string on the bow and put it in the car about an hour ago. The temp in the car was 104 a few minutes ago. This should be a real world test of the material, as many bows go through this on a regular basis, at least I know mine do. We'll see what we get later today. The cam has a new mark on it so any movement should be apparent. The cable on the bow is Trophy so I don't expect any issues there.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

ttt


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Now for the results of the car/heat test. There was about 3 hours of mostly sunny today with a high temperture of around 73. This produced a temperture in my car that reached a high point of 111 degrees. I removed the bow from the car at 101 degrees with the temperture dropping in cloudy conditions. I removed the string from the bow as quickly as possible and took a measurement at 100#. The string had moved another 1/16" which now put it at 98 9/16"... I left the string on the stretcher at 100# for a couple of hours as I had family duties to perform. When I returned, I adjusted the jig back to 100# and took another measurement. I was surprised to see the string had moved another 1/16" and is now 98 5/8". I can only assume the additional pounds while still warm caused this...


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## Mathews4ever (Jan 13, 2007)

I know if it is that hot out I am not shooting my bow lol let us know what you find out good to know


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> The Dynaflight string I made yesterday performed well through a full round of field with no noticeable problems, low shots, etc. I did not remove the string from the bow to measure because I intend on using the bow and it is shooting quite well. If there was any movement of the string, I can't pick up on it on the bow. Speed is the same (255 fps with full serving, peep) as it was when I set it up, as is the mark I put on the cam, poundage, brace and ATA. The other D-10 string has been on the stretcher since yesterday and a measurement this morning shows about a 1/32" movement. I'm leaving it on the stretcher to see if the movement, although slight, continues.
> 
> While the Trophy is the obvious stability winner, the Dynaflight 10 is looking like a very close second. I will say that both of the non-blended materials did produce a nice string with no peep movement, while the Trophy string had a consistent 1/16 twist of the peep. I find that this is common with blended materials, at least with (my) very long strings (short strings give me no problems). There are many factors to consider as to why this is, but a consistent 1/16 rotation of a peep isn't anything to loose sleep over. As far as cables are concerned, it's Trophy all the way.
> 
> The only question remaining is: "Will the non-blended materials hold up in the heat?". Summer is a coming.


While the Astro was cooking in the car I measured the D-10 string that was on the bow that completed the 28 target field shoot portion of the testing. The string was still dead on 98 1/4". I was pleasently surprised by this as I expected to see some movement, even though the bow showed no changes. The Dynaflight 10 has been a very strong contender and has come up big in every phase of the testing. Based on the weather reports, it will be a couple of days before I can car/heat test the Dynaflight 10...


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## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

EPLC said:


> While the Astro was cooking in the car I measured the D-10 string that was on the bow that completed the 28 target field shoot portion of the testing. The string was still dead on 98 1/4". I was pleasently surprised by this as I expected to see some movement, even though the bow showed no changes. The Dynaflight 10 has been a very strong contender and has come up big in every phase of the testing. Based on the weather reports, it will be a couple of days before I can car/heat test the Dynaflight 10...


I am happy to hear this, but not surprised though. When building with d10 I take it up to 450# and stretch for an hour or so, I have never had to raise the pressure back up to maintain the tension! It seems to hold very well! Looking forward to the heat test on the d10!


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

Wouldnt it be a better test to measure the spec's of the bow? While taking the string on and off the bow you could loose a twist here and their. If you leave it on the bow and have your cam marked and your A2A....BH....and poundage measured I would think this would give you a more accurate test. I have several bow's down south....GA..and FL that have non blended material on them and have been rock solid at 80+ pounds and 29-30 Dl. I'm not going to argue what the better material is between D10 and Astro. Just saying I have had good results with 100% HMPE.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Bow pro said:


> Wouldnt it be a better test to measure the spec's of the bow? While taking the string on and off the bow you could loose a twist here and their. If you leave it on the bow and have your cam marked and your A2A....BH....and poundage measured I would think this would give you a more accurate test. I have several bow's down south....GA..and FL that have non blended material on them and have been rock solid at 80+ pounds and 29-30 Dl. I'm not going to argue what the better material is between D10 and Astro. Just saying I have had good results with 100% HMPE.


No, I don't think the bow is a better indication for a string material test. There's nothing more accurate than measuring the string itself. If you had creep in both the string and cable the cam marks could stay dead on while the ATA and brace measurements would show only very very slight differences. That being said, I'm sure you are getting good results from the Astro, it seems to be a good material. Most of the string builders are using 18 strands of Astro in strings, I used the recommended 16, as it produces the same diameter as the other materials and a good nock fit with .021 center serving. Can I assume you are using 18 strands? String length is also a big factor here as well. This is why I chose a long string for the testing. I've tried to be as fair as possible with these tests, and have documented each step along the way. Anyone doubting the results can duplicate them for themselves. 

The big surprise for me is how well the 16 strand Dynaflight 10 has held up to this point. With the exception of a 1/32" stretch at 100#, it is in a dead tie with the blended material to this point.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

As luck would have it, the weather report for today was wrong (how unusual is that). Nice partly sunny afternoon after a cloudy, cool morning. The sun came out late morning (11:00) and was at 70 degrees outside when I put the bow with the D-10 string in the car. It didn't take long to hit the 111 degree high that the Astro string hit. At that point I opened the sunroof so it wouldn't get too hot. Even with the roof open it did get up to 113 degrees and stayed there until 2:00 when I removed the bow. I had marked the cam and the mark looked like it had moved a little. Needless to say I was surprised to see no movement on the 100# measured string. 

Back to the Astro: After measuring the D-10 string I took another measurement on the Astro string. The 1/8" that it had moved yesterday in the heat test had recovered. We are now back to 98.500... I installed it back on the bow and in the oven(car) it went, sunroof closed. We'll call this the more heat, heat test. I'll keep an eye on things to see what temperture it reaches. Right now it is 111 degrees and may not get any higher as the sun has past its peek. We may have to continue this at a later date.


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

So if the mark on your cam moved and your D10 string is still the same measurement at 100lbs.....that means your Trophy on your cables had to move...correct?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Bow pro said:


> So if the mark on your cam moved and your D10 string is still the same measurement at 100lbs.....that means your Trophy on your cables had to move...correct?


I doubt it. The stability of the Trophy is not in question, never has. The blended materials have long since proven themselves to be stable in hot conditions. The mark on the cam looked like it "may" have changed, but this was only a "by eye" and it was so minimal I could have been mistaken. The string was measured at 100# and I took special care to see that no twists were added or removed, just like I do each and every time. I just removed the Astro string from the car. This time there was a noticable difference in the cam mark. 

It should be noted that the D-10 string "grew" about .030" while sitting at 100# after the heat was removed. I'm finding this is typical of both of the non-blended materials, with D-10 having about 1/2 the movement as the Astro, but both seem to recover after the pressure is relaxed.

So... here's the result of the Astro "more heat" heat test. The high temperture reached was 114 degrees and had dropped to 109 just a little while ago when I removed the bow. I also shot the bow 5 times in the cellar as soon as I got it there. I'll do the same with the D-10 when I perform the "more heat" heat test on it. At 100# the Astro string had moved 1/8" of an inch and is now back to 98 5/8"... It's on the stretcher now at 100# and I'll check for any additional movement later. After the final measurement I'll let it relax and then determine if this is stretch or creep or a little of each.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> So... here's the result of the Astro "more heat" heat test. The high temperture reached was 114 degrees and had dropped to 109 just a little while ago when I removed the bow. I also shot the bow 5 times in the cellar as soon as I got it there. I'll do the same with the D-10 when I perform the "more heat" heat test on it. At 100# the Astro string had moved 1/8" of an inch and is now back to 98 5/8"... It's on the stretcher now at 100# and I'll check for any additional movement later. After the final measurement I'll let it relax and then determine if this is stretch or creep or a little of each.


Here's the final on the Astro. There was almost no additional movement sitting on the stretcher @ 100# and after sitting relaxed for several hours most of the additional 1/8" had recovered (initially). I set the stretcher at 100# and took a measurement. The string was about 1/32" over the 98.500 we started with today. Within less than a minute another 1/32" came back. Total movement for this test was only about 1/16"... Total movement (creep) for Astro over the entire test was 5/16". Since the initial move to 98.500 the Astro has held up well throughout the heat testing. While it has shown a willingness to stretch more than the other materials under pressure and through the heat testing, the stretch did not translate into creep after the string settled in at 98.500. It should be noted that neither the Astro or the D-10 were tested on higher pound and/or long draw bows. This "could" make a difference in these results. At first opportunity, I'll perform the final heat test on the Dynaflight 10, but with the exception of firing the bow after the test, this has all but been completed. I really do not expect any surprises.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Here's the final on the Astro. There was almost no additional movement sitting on the stretcher @ 100# and after sitting relaxed for several hours most of the additional 1/8" had recovered (initially). I set the stretcher at 100# and took a measurement. The string was about 1/32" over the 98.500 we started with today. Within less than a minute another 1/32" came back. Total movement for this test was only about 1/16"... Total movement (creep) for Astro over the entire test was 5/16". Since the initial move to 98.500 the Astro has held up well throughout the heat testing. While it has shown a willingness to stretch more than the other materials under pressure and through the heat testing, the stretch did not translate into creep after the string settled in at 98.500. It should be noted that neither the Astro or the D-10 were tested on higher pound and/or long draw bows. This "could" make a difference in these results. At first opportunity, I'll perform the final heat test on the Dynaflight 10, but with the exception of firing the bow after the test, this has all but been completed. I really do not expect any surprises.


Update: After yesterdays test I left the Astro string under 100# of pressure. This morning the string measured 98 5/8" again. The Astro seems to have more elasticity than the D-10 material and has shown a tendency to move while under a constent pressure. It has also shown that after the tension has been relaxed, it will recover most of the movement.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Update: After yesterdays test I left the Astro string under 100# of pressure. This morning the string measured 98 5/8" again. The Astro seems to have more elasticity than the D-10 material and has shown a tendency to move while under a constent pressure. It has also shown that after the tension has been relaxed, it will recover most of the movement.


During this process I've learned alot about these materials. Astro for example takes a while to settle down when trying to take a measurement at 100#... I've had to let it sit at 100# for an hour or more before I could get an accurate measurement. If you let it relax it tends to shrink, then when pressure is applied again it takes a while for the material to normalize and get to its actual 100# length. After this settling down period you can get an accurate measurement. So... the final length on the Astro string is 98 5/8". This is 3/8" over the prestretched starting length of 98 1/4". All phases of Astro testing are complete. 

The weather has been crappy here the past couple days so I haven't completed the last test for the D-10... Plenty of warm days are coming.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Can you post some pics of the ASTRO string , I want to see how its built...Because when I first started building with ASTRO , I left a string on the jig for 18 hours with only a drop of approx 25lbs, no different than Xcel, 452X or Trophy...

Im just not seeing the numbers you posted, I believe that there are differences in the way folks build strings , how they lay up , tie off, twist, etc. The real proof in the pudding , is on the bow for thousands of shots...

I just had a guy PM me and tell me that he has approx 3K shots on astro strings and cables and it has stayed at the same "EXACT" poundage that we set his bow up at...Now that same guy has about the same number of shots on the FLO GREEN Trophy String I built him with the same results...

I use Build with all 4 materials , 452X, Xcel (452X Equivalant) , Trophy and ASTRO , and I havent seen the numbers or any complaints that would substantiate your findings...

So I really think that its in the build process, I know that when using ASTRO, I dont lay up the same as I would with any of the blended products...The two materials require a different process...But when the string is finished, I end up with the same results, a solid product that performs...

I like both blended and non blended materials, I wont pic one over another as I can get them both to perform the same...

I guess what Im saying is I have never seen a 1/4-3/8 stretch in any product I have used...

All in all, I appreciate the effort you put into it

One last question, how come you dont have cables built from D-10 on your bow?




EPLC said:


> During this process I've learned alot about these materials. Astro for example takes a while to settle down when trying to take a measurement at 100#... I've had to let it sit at 100# for an hour or more before I could get an accurate measurement. If you let it relax it tends to shrink, then when pressure is applied again it takes a while for the material to normalize and get to its actual 100# length. After this settling down period you can get an accurate measurement. So... the final length on the Astro string is 98 5/8". This is 3/8" over the prestretched starting length of 98 1/4". All phases of Astro testing are complete.
> 
> The weather has been crappy here the past couple days so I haven't completed the last test for the D-10... Plenty of warm days are coming.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Tom, the test is well documented and these were my findings. The material didn't move 3/8" all at once, but it did move that much over the entire test cycle. A picture won't tell you anything, hey, I'll send you the string. You are welcome to try it yourself.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

But, here's a couple of pictures. All 3 strings were one-color with 1 strand of an off-color for identification purposes. The Astro string was black with 1 strand of tan.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ex-wolverine said:


> Can you post some pics of the ASTRO string , I want to see how its built...Because when I first started building with ASTRO , I left a string on the jig for 18 hours with only a drop of approx 25lbs, no different than Xcel, 452X or Trophy...
> 
> Im just not seeing the numbers you posted, I believe that there are differences in the way folks build strings , how they lay up , tie off, twist, etc. The real proof in the pudding , is on the bow for thousands of shots...
> 
> ...


Just remembered... you are using 18 strands of Astro, are you not? The test was 16 strands for both Astro and D-10... and 16 strands is the manufactures recommended number for strings for both materials. Are you saying that 18 strands of Astro will produce the same results as the other materials as tested? I might buy that.


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

I have also been using lots of different string material from both manufacturers. With Astro I have been using 18 strands for all my strings, 18 strands for cables on binary cams, and 20 strands for cables on hybrid cams. About 3 weeks ago two spot shooters took top of their divisions during a provincial shoot. Both the male and female have had Astro strings and cables on their bows for close to four months now and they average no less than 400-500 shots per week and have not had to move their sights around like you have described. If they had to be changing their sights, my strings would be off their bows in a heart beat as when shooting these spot tournaments the winner is always just the difference of one x or in some cases the closest to the x during the last shootoff round. I haven't tested 16 strands of Astro becuase I personally like the diameter of 18 better and it hasn't caused any issues for myself or the people that are using my strings. I also have one shooter using Astro who commonly shoots a fita round outdoors at his acreage followed by a drive into town to shoot an indoor round and has yet to have any issues. I am not making my post about one material being better than another but I just wanted to point out my findings with Astro based on the strand counts that I am using. The proof to me is the feedback from those who are shooting my strings as I am very focused on making my customers happy and refuse to sell a product that I wouldn't shoot on my own bows.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

jaredc said:


> I have also been using lots of different string material from both manufacturers. With Astro I have been using 18 strands for all my strings, 18 strands for cables on binary cams, and 20 strands for cables on hybrid cams. About 3 weeks ago two spot shooters took top of their divisions during a provincial shoot. Both the male and female have had Astro strings and cables on their bows for close to four months now and they average no less than 400-500 shots per week and have not had to move their sights around like you have described. If they had to be changing their sights, my strings would be off their bows in a heart beat as when shooting these spot tournaments the winner is always just the difference of one x or in some cases the closest to the x during the last shootoff round. I haven't tested 16 strands of Astro becuase I personally like the diameter of 18 better and it hasn't caused any issues for myself or the people that are using my strings. I also have one shooter using Astro who commonly shoots a fita round outdoors at his acreage followed by a drive into town to shoot an indoor round and has yet to have any issues. I am not making my post about one material being better than another but I just wanted to point out my findings with Astro based on the strand counts that I am using. The proof to me is the feedback from those who are shooting my strings as I am very focused on making my customers happy and refuse to sell a product that I wouldn't shoot on my own bows.


Once again, the test was performed using 16 strands of Astro, which is the manufactures recommended number of strands for strings, not 18 as most of you are using. The Dynaflight 10 was tested at 16 strands as well. The tests were performed as fairly as I could manage, and I kept it an apples to apples test with the same process and requirements for each material. 16 strands of Astro and D-10 compare to 22 strands of Trophy. With .021 center serving I get the nock fit that I want and the overall string diameter that I am comfortable with.


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

As an astro user and believer I'm not going to argue this test. I did a similar test when we started using the material. Most of what we did was testing at 300lbs for longer periods of time. In a 24hr period we seen about 1/2" of growth on a 101" string which is double what we see with 452x or trophy. This was 16 strands as well even though 95% of what we sell is 18 strands. With that said I just pulled the string off my supra with around 8000 shots and it's still right where it was when I started. Most shooting was indoors with a few field rounds on it in the past month. It's taken me a long time to trust the material but for some reason once we prestretch it we're getting no movement on the bow. We have seen a few issues popping up with the astro but creep isn't one of them. FWIW we use 452x and trophy as well. I'm slowly building info on what bows and mfg's seem to perform best with each material. All in all great test. Thanks for taking the time and sharing your findings.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

60X said:


> As an astro user and believer I'm not going to argue this test. I did a similar test when we started using the material. Most of what we did was testing at 300lbs for longer periods of time. In a 24hr period we seen about 1/2" of growth on a 101" string which is double what we see with 452x or trophy. This was 16 strands as well even though 95% of what we sell is 18 strands. With that said I just pulled the string off my supra with around 8000 shots and it's still right where it was when I started. Most shooting was indoors with a few field rounds on it in the past month. It's taken me a long time to trust the material but for some reason once we prestretch it we're getting no movement on the bow. We have seen a few issues popping up with the astro but creep isn't one of them. FWIW we use 452x and trophy as well. I'm slowly building info on what bows and mfg's seem to perform best with each material. All in all great test. Thanks for taking the time and sharing your findings.


Thank you.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

My observation is that Dynema flattens unless it's pulled tight.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

BIG thanks for everyones postings! i know its alot of work and time to do all the building and testing so i do appreciate all the efforts.

Some may know but as ive stated it before but i have a little test of Astro and D10 myself.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

EPLC said:


> But, here's a couple of pictures. All 3 strings were one-color with 1 strand of an off-color for identification purposes. The Astro string was black with 1 strand of tan.


Could you go into a little more detail as to how you finished the Ends?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Schpankme said:


> Could you go into a little more detail as to how you finished the Ends?


The ends were finished with a typical tag end serving. As you can see in the picture the tag end on that end has a little separation. I didn't really fuss with these as I was only looking to test the material and disgard the string later. Working with the Astro and D-10 larger diameter takes a little getting used to. As you will see I got the other end done a little neater... Also, these pictures were taken after several off and on again stretcher to bow to stretcher to bow to stretcher tests.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

EPLC said:


> The ends were finished with a typical tag end serving. As you can see in the picture the tag end on that end has a little separation. I didn't really fuss with these as I was only looking to test the material and disgard the string later. Working with the Astro and D-10 larger diameter takes a little getting used to. As you will see I got the other end done a little neater... Also, these pictures were taken after several off and on again stretcher to bow to stretcher to bow to stretcher tests.



Just to clarify, you back-whipped the tag ends over the top of the string serving?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

No, I served from the end of the tag serving. I was experimenting with that end and gave it one too many wraps.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

ttt


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Just to everyone updated. The weather has not been warm enough here on any days that I was available to finish the testing on the D-10 string. I'll get to it asap and post my findings...


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## *ProLine* (Oct 10, 2007)

Good information


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Im looking forward to your un-biased review...




EPLC said:


> Just to everyone updated. The weather has not been warm enough here on any days that I was available to finish the testing on the D-10 string. I'll get to it asap and post my findings...


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

ttt


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Thanks for a thorough report. I'm still thinking about which material to go with, and this thread has made it all the more confusing. Hehe. JK


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

ttt


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## CardiacKid74 (Jan 18, 2005)

ex-wolverine said:


> Im looking forward to your un-biased review...


:lol3::spam2:


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Sorry I haven't completed the test, I was called away on business. I'm in WA state until next Saturday, but it's been raining back home anyway.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

EPLC said:


> ... I haven't completed the test,
> ... I was called away on business.
> ... I'm in WA state until next Saturday, but it's been raining back home anyway.


Come back home we miss you .. :laugh2::hug:


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Just waiting to for my flight out-a-here... Will be home this evening


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## jloar (Feb 10, 2010)

So.......are we going to get the final D10 evaluation? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## incendiaerus (Apr 12, 2011)

:hungry:


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## UltraEliteLover (Sep 5, 2009)

Not to start any wars here but I have made a few strings myself and I have to say a 1/32 movement in a very long string is nothing. I peep twist of a 1/16 IS A PAIN!!! I guess it doesn't bother you but a 3/32 clarifier turned 1/16 cuts your vision greatly. Also yes you would get a speed loss if you went from 16 to 20 strands of Astro Flight. More strands-thicker string slower string. As you just stated the Astro Flight did not have peep rotation and the 452x did. You mentioned the Astro was a little bit more elastic that the 452X and this IS a manufacture claim(softer shot). To me the big down side to the 452X is the Vectran. Yes BCY uses A GORE coating to lower the abrasive qualities of the Vectran but the fact remaing that this is only a coating and the material itself hasn't changed. I do not have a problem with the 452x (or trophy) but the fact that the string material is a little more brittle than the others for me says it all.

I use Astro Flight, stretch and burnish measure at 100lbs and the only problem I have used was the calculation for length/twist rate of the string for the material. I use one that a guy posted here and he made it flexable for 3 twist rates. I have to say your testing is a little incosistant, the materials are like apples to oranges and mabie a little bias. Again I think you did a good job but mabie switching up bows and even different string materials (8125, 450, ultra cam) just to name a few, we could get a better out look.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Good assessment of his assessment...

Im with ya on the peep movement...With the all of ASTRO sets I have made, not ONE has had peep movment...Build it, set it and forget it...

Weather has not been a factor, as of late my shooters have experianced Washington State torrential down poors, heat, and even snow and sleet just this month...They have placed or won in State tourney's, Redding, Local shoots and Placed in the over all Northwest Tripple Crown IBO Tripple crown...

Thousands upon thousands of Shots with ASTRO and no peep issues nor have thier bows moved....

For me 18 Strands on the string has given me the perfect balance of stability and speed...

A few others have been using 16 strands with even more speed and no stability problems...

I have no intention of using anything else...I like the fact that my customers can shoot worry free immediately with no shoot in time





UltraEliteLover said:


> Not to start any wars here but I have made a few strings myself and I have to say a 1/32 movement in a very long string is nothing. I peep twist of a 1/16 IS A PAIN!!! I guess it doesn't bother you but a 3/32 clarifier turned 1/16 cuts your vision greatly. Also yes you would get a speed loss if you went from 16 to 20 strands of Astro Flight. More strands-thicker string slower string. As you just stated the Astro Flight did not have peep rotation and the 452x did. You mentioned the Astro was a little bit more elastic that the 452X and this IS a manufacture claim(softer shot). To me the big down side to the 452X is the Vectran. Yes BCY uses A GORE coating to lower the abrasive qualities of the Vectran but the fact remaing that this is only a coating and the material itself hasn't changed. I do not have a problem with the 452x (or trophy) but the fact that the string material is a little more brittle than the others for me says it all.
> 
> I use Astro Flight, stretch and burnish measure at 100lbs and the only problem I have used was the calculation for length/twist rate of the string for the material. I use one that a guy posted here and he made it flexable for 3 twist rates. I have to say your testing is a little incosistant, the materials are like apples to oranges and mabie a little bias. Again I think you did a good job but mabie switching up bows and even different string materials (8125, 450, ultra cam) just to name a few, we could get a better out look.


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## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

ex-wolverine said:


> Good assessment of his assessment...
> 
> Im with ya on the peep movement...With the all of ASTRO sets I have made, not ONE has had peep movment...Build it, set it and forget it...
> 
> ...


So true Tom,This is a outstanding product.You can not ask for a more stable product IMO. And congrates on your shooters.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

thanks bro



omen said:


> So true Tom,This is a outstanding product.You can not ask for a more stable product IMO. And congrates on your shooters.


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## PDB Strings (May 13, 2010)

Do either of you (Jeff or Tom) care to share your stretching procedure with astro? We've tried everything and can't get the stability out of the material. We love working with the material but we're pretty disappointed with the short term(3-6 month) testing we've done.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I have about another years worth of string material. When I run out I will be looking to see what is the best material for me. So maybe in a year or less everyone will have decided which is best for them and I can ride your coat tails.

As of now my only complaint with 452x is that my hands are rough and sometimes when I am building my string the 452x will snag on rough skin and it sort of frays or disturbs the fibers in the strand of 452x. Also when I start to tie off the tag ends I often end up with the strand separating a little. If you understand what I am talking about, then how does the astro or xcel compare?

Thanks to all who test and use these new materials. It sure is nice that you are willing to break the ground for the rest of us.

I also would like to know of any tricks that you builders are using to make these new materials work better, but I don't expect you to give away and trade secrets that you have worked hard to discover.


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## stubborn (Mar 19, 2011)

OP so far what you are seeing is exactly what all 3 sets of astro strings cables i have had have done to me. They stretch and somewhat recover but never as much a they stretch. After a while I can feel the bow just getting softer and softer on the shot, then I have to take the string and cables off and hang them over night then twist to length. I have had 1 set that was 16 strands of astro and 2 that were 18 strand of astro and all 3 have done the same thing.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

All I can say to this , is its in the build process, 

I will apologize to all of you right now, but I will not divulge the building technics used for ASTRO because there are a lot of builders on here that have put a lot of time and effort into figuring out both BCY and Brownell products...I will say it has been a team effort and a lot of trust put into everyone not to divulge any building technics

I made a promise, and people have made a promise to me...

I dont make a living building strings, I do it as a part time business , someday it will be full time...The folks I made promises to do it for a living and I will not undermine their trust...






stubborn said:


> OP so far what you are seeing is exactly what all 3 sets of astro strings cables i have had have done to me. They stretch and somewhat recover but never as much a they stretch. After a while I can feel the bow just getting softer and softer on the shot, then I have to take the string and cables off and hang them over night then twist to length. I have had 1 set that was 16 strands of astro and 2 that were 18 strand of astro and all 3 have done the same thing.


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## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

Well said Tom! All of you have worked very hard too to get where you are! There are alot to the details of building a quality set of strings and cables, you guys get lucky to buy them for the prices builders charge!


ex-wolverine said:


> All I can say to this , is its in the build process,
> 
> I will apologize to all of you right now, but I will not divulge the building technics used for ASTRO because there are a lot of builders on here that have put a lot of time and effort into figuring out both BCY and Brownell products...I will say it has been a team effort and a lot of trust put into everyone not to divulge any building technics
> 
> ...


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

ex-wolverine said:


> All I can say to this , is its in the build process,
> 
> I will apologize to all of you right now, but I will not divulge the building technics used for ASTRO because there are a lot of builders on here that have put a lot of time and effort into figuring out both BCY and Brownell products...I will say it has been a team effort and a lot of trust put into everyone not to divulge any building technics
> 
> ...


I totally understand about the trade secrets. Now all I have to do is decided if I want to try and make a string out of material that might not work for me or for me to use a material that I know that I can get to work. 

I would think that Brownell would give out any special building information if they knew how the material should be used. But if the professional string builders are smart they wont even share this information with Brownell.


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

ex-wolverine said:


> All I can say to this , is its in the build process,
> 
> I will apologize to all of you right now, but I will not divulge the building technics used for ASTRO because there are a lot of builders on here that have put a lot of time and effort into figuring out both BCY and Brownell products...I will say it has been a team effort and a lot of trust put into everyone not to divulge any building technics
> 
> ...




I got a secret! 

Brownell ASTRO (100% HMPE SK 78) is not a blend, it happens to be of appropriate size and diameter for making 
a nice thread count bundle; the strength and size of ASTRO also makes for very low creep and stretch; which can 
also be found in BCY D10 (100% HMPE SK 78). Yes - ASTRO and D10 will make the same quality Bow String, using
techniques disclosed on these forums (EPLC).


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Sorry but the only difference I have seen in the "build process" is that the folks using Astroflight are using 12% more string material in their strings to get the same result as I got with Dynaflight 10... Yes, 12% more, that's 18 strands of Astro to get the same stability as D-10 with 16 strands. BTW, the materials are the same diameter material.

Now, my appologies for being late on the conclusion of the testing, I have been away on business. I will try and get this done sometime this week.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

How were the shoots? Big turn outs?

And no not really the same..I use 18 and 20 because I want to...All the other guys use 16 with the same results...

How come you dont use D-10 on the cables??? 



EPLC said:


> Sorry but the only difference I have seen in the "build process" is that the folks using Astroflight are using 12% more string material in their strings to get the same result as I got with Dynaflight 10... Yes, 12% more, that's 18 strands of Astro to get the same stability as D-10 with 16 strands. BTW, the materials are the same diameter material.
> 
> Now, my appologies for being late on the conclusion of the testing, I have been away on business. I will try and get this done sometime this week.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ex-wolverine said:


> How were the shoots? Big turn outs?
> 
> And no not really the same..I use 18 and 20 because I want to...All the other guys use 16 with the same results...
> 
> How come you dont use D-10 on the cables???


Sorry Tom, but that isn't the facts. Most, if not all, of the Astro users have posted they use 18 strands, not 16. So far, 60X is the only one to be honest about the 16 strand stability findings with Astro. This test was not one of "process" but one of material. I went all out to make sure "process" was equal for all 3 materials/strings tested. Now, you guys need to stop crying and start making plans to pick up your 3rd place trophy... Sorry, couldn't resist after reading all the weeping posts of the past couple weeks.

Now, the test bow is in the car and has been for a couple hours. Is hot out and the last I looked it was 114 degrees in the car. I'm going to pull the bow out now and do some measuring... To be continued


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Now for the results of the Dynaflight 10 test. I just took the bow out of the car (a little more than 2 hours @ 114 degrees). Down to the cellar I went and shot 5 shots then removed the string and measured @ 100#. The string measured about 1/32" over the original length of 98.250". Pretty darn good for a non-blened material. I understand BCY is doing something with the new SK-90... can't wait.

Oh, I just remembered, the previous measurements were taken with the peep installed. I removed the peep about 2 weeks or so ago to use on my other bow. This would account for the 1/32" difference. I would also like to mention that this bow has been in use as well, shooting field as well as a couple of 3d shoots. The D-10 is an excellent material.

And... to answer Tom's question about why I do not use D-10 for my cables. First, I did not want to use it for the testing because I did not want any additional factors confusing the testing results. Second, I had not tested this material in that application. Third, I currently have a D-10 cable on my Contender Elite/Spirals to try it out. It's been on the bow since I got it (2-weeks+) with no noticeable changes in the bow. I shot a full field round with it today and had a 270 2nd half which is my high so far this year. My yardage marks, speed and cam rotation have remained unchanged - about 1000 arrows. No peep rotation issues either.


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## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

EPLC said:


> Sorry Tom, but that isn't the facts. Most, if not all, of the Astro users have posted they use 18 strands, not 16. So far, 60X is the only one to be honest about the 16 strand stability findings with Astro. This test was not one of "process" but one of material. I went all out to make sure "process" was equal for all 3 materials/strings tested. Now, you guys need to stop crying and start making plans to pick up your 3rd place trophy... Sorry, couldn't resist after reading all the weeping posts of the past couple weeks.
> 
> Now, the test bow is in the car and has been for a couple hours. Is hot out and the last I looked it was 114 degrees in the car. I'm going to pull the bow out now and do some measuring... To be continued


We at JBK are using 16 strand also with out any issue's. So are you saying that astro is coming 3rd place,I'am I following you correctly on this statement? Also would like to know how were the shoots?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

omen said:


> We at JBK are using 16 strand also with out any issue's. So are you saying that astro is coming 3rd place,I'am I following you correctly on this statement? Also would like to know how were the shoots?


Considering all that has been posted here about the testing of 3 materials I find your question a little puzzling? Surely you jest 

1. I tested 3 materials 
2. First Place (Based on all applications) = 452X/Trophy. Still the best for all applications, including long draw, big poundage bows. This stuff just doesn't move in any situation.
3. 2nd Place (and a very close 2nd) = Dynaflight 10. This actually came out in a virtual tie with 452X/Trophy, but because I am using only 55# and 28" draw length for the testing I can only recommend this material for this type of application. The material showed almost no movement throughout all phases of the testing. I am currently, and have been since the start of this test cycle, using it on all of my personal equipment.
4. While a good material, Astroflight came in 3rd in the stability department. It showed some movement in just about every phase of the testing. Going to 18 strands from the recommended 16 strands vastly improves the stability of this material per those who are building strings with it. I can not verify these claims as I only tested the recommended 16 strands.

For those who may have problems with the results, I assure you that I made the strings, tests, process and conditions as close as possible to one another. The tests are well documented within this thread, I suggest anyone with concerns duplicate the testing for yourself. The 60x post backs up my findings and he has always been a strong supported of the Astroflight material. I salute him for telling it like it is.


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## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

EPLC said:


> Considering all that has been posted here about the testing of 3 materials I find your question a little puzzling? Surely you jest
> 
> 1. I tested 3 materials
> 2. First Place (Based on all applications) = 452X/Trophy. Still the best for all applications, including long draw, big poundage bows. This stuff just doesn't move in any situation.
> ...


Ok,I see the point you are trying to make...So what would you say if you were told that 16 strand astro strings at this time are in the field on 80lbs (OMEN'S) without any problems?Do not get me wrong your effort was great and I'am sure you are a stand up guy and was very honest in your findings.The builders that are truely using astro on a daily basis will argue your findings (us) included.As I'am sure you have noticed while you stroll through all the threads (astro) is doing very well.I also have noticed that the sales of D-10 seems on the low side at this time. I do wish bcy well with this product and yourself.According to your testing results this product should do very well in due time.Good day sir.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Considering all that has been posted here about the testing of 3 materials I find your question a little puzzling? Surely you jest
> 
> 1. I tested 3 materials
> 2. First Place (Based on all applications) = 452X/Trophy. Still the best for all applications, including long draw, big poundage bows. This stuff just doesn't move in any situation.
> ...


The tests speak for themselves... I should mention that BCY is not pushing Dynaflight-10... hey I don't even know if they understand how good this material is. As mentioned the material is fairly new and not widely distributed as far as I know.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

BCY don’t know how good it is???...I’m sure that the folks at BCY with textile degrees would love to hear that



EPLC said:


> ; hey I don't even know if they understand how good this material is. As mentioned the material is fairly new and not widely distributed as far as I know.





> The tests speak for themselves


I beg to differ;
How is it myself and many other builders can build with all 3 products and achieve great results....452X is great product I have many, many, sets out there and not one return...Trophy I only have a few sets out there but they all have no issues...ASTRO, again I have many sets out there with no returns or issues...As a matter of fact ASTRO has been performing great in the heat...contrary to your “Bow in the car test “….Really??? Thats weak

I knew that ASTRO would come in third when you started this, it is obvious by looking back on a lot of your posts that you are a BCY fan and that there is no way that your test would end up any other way...Like I said in a previous post, "I couldn’t wait for your un-biased review" ...

You are so passionate about BCY at times it almost seems like you have ties with the company in some form or fashion...

That’s ok, BCY is a great company to be a part of....But "if" you have ties with them how can you objectively do an un-biased review of another company’s product??? 

I like both companies products and I can make all them work for me and my customers...

Here is the difference between you and other builders, myself included; they put their heart and soul into every set they build, *no matter what the material is*…They will get it to work and have great long lasting results with it…So as far as I’m concerned there is no one product better than the other...You just have to know how to make it work

In my humble opinion you had no intention of giving ASTRO a fair shot…Smoke and mirrors my friend , smoke and mirrors

Have a great day I’m done with this one sided review

Tom


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Tom, I appreciate that you sent me the Astro material to do the testing but now you are blowing smoke. You didn't like the test results and now there is some secret process that makes Astro super-duper. The fact is you are using 18 strands of Astro where 16 is recommended. I performed this test at your request, the testing was done as fairly as I could make it and now you are unhappy with the results. I have lost respect for you as a result of your personal comments and insults. Have a nice day.


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

I don't build strings. I don't own stock in either company. I just shoot the bows. I feel like I should have the biggest dog in this fight since I'm the one getting the end product.

With that said, I have three bows in my house right now. A Contender Elite with 452X, an Ultra Elite with Trophy, and a Vantage Elite+ with ASTRO. All of the strings are built by the same guy, Tom. 

I have had no peep rotation or stretch/creep issues with any of them. I've shot everywhere from 20 degrees in Idaho to 90+ in Redding and had no issues. In fact, I have done quite well with all of them. I've shot great scores and won or finished on the podium at some very big shoots. I do a lot of reading and studying about this stuff because it interests me. If I had an issue with any one of the materials, it would be off the bow immediately. 

I have a lot of confidence in all three of the materials. My 452X string did fuzz a little bit, but not bad at all. I could still shoot it for another year if I had to. If I were a builder, I would stock Trophy and ASTRO. I see no need for 452X since Trophy is an improved version. 

As Tom mentioned, I have one of his few Trophy strings that he built, and I really like it. I shot next to the guy last night that has one of Tom's first ASTRO strings, he has no issues with it. 

They can all be built to work flawlessly, that has been proven to me. 

My main concern is that this fight amongst the builders will escalate to a point where builders start choosing sides. I see it starting to happen now. As a consumer, if I were looking to purchase strings, I wouldn't want to have to change builders because they don't carry the material I want. I would rather stay loyal to a builder I'm comfortable with, and get whatever material I want from that particular builder.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

I have two bows, same make,same model with Astro on both. Only difference is the builder. One set is working out great, no stretch, no creep, no peep rotation. The other set I have had to add twist twice and it has again grown. So in my limited experiance the builder and his technique does make a difference. I mean no disrespect to you EPLC, but your response to some of the other builders seems to display an arrogant opinionated stubborness. Perhaps they do know something you don't, at one time you didn't know as much as you do now, so maybe there is more to learn. Again I am not taking sides, just pointing out the impression I am getting from reading all this. Petty bickering helps no one.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Considering all that has been posted here about the testing of 3 materials I find your question a little puzzling? Surely you jest
> 
> 1. I tested 3 materials
> 2. First Place (Based on all applications) = 452X/Trophy. Still the best for all applications, including long draw, big poundage bows. This stuff just doesn't move in any situation.
> ...


These results speak for themselves. The tests were performed honestly and as exact as possible to one another. It was not, and I repeat, NOT a test of a process, but a test of material alone. The early phases of the testing were preformed with nothing but a center serving on the strings to make sure this was a test on material alone. The personal attacks on my honesty I take personal. You clowns can take your crying towels with you when you finally pick the 3rd place trophy. I noticed that you are not attacking the honesty of 60X who got pretty much the same result when he tested 16 strands of Astro...


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

My son has Dynaflight 10 on his bow and that will be the last time I ever use it...not impressed at all.


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## jloar (Feb 10, 2010)

I've used Trophy bowstrings from Korbin, D10 bowstrings from ProLine and Astro bowstrings from Extreme. They were all very good, don't know that I could pick a favorite.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

jloar said:


> I've used Trophy bowstrings from Korbin, D10 bowstrings from ProLine and Astro bowstrings from Extreme. They were all very good, don't know that I could pick a favorite.


You are off topic.


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## fasst (Oct 1, 2004)

Keep it clean guys.

I've read this thread and appreciate what everyone has out into it, but I do sense some hostility and conflict. Seems like some of you (no names) log in and type in a specific search word just to see what threads you will reply on that day.

I live in FL, and have shot tournaments in 100+ degree heat, maybe I should do my own testing


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## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

fasst said:


> Keep it clean guys.
> 
> I've read this thread and appreciate what everyone has out into it, but I do sense some hostility and conflict. Seems like some of you (no names) log in and type in a specific search word just to see what threads you will reply on that day.
> 
> I live in FL, and have shot tournaments in 100+ degree heat, maybe I should do my own testing


Good idea!!!


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## Schpankme (Dec 6, 2010)

ex-wolverine said:


> ... How is it myself .. can build with all 3 products and achieve great results ..You just have to know how to make it work
> 
> Tom (ex-wolverine)



Well this is nothing more then horn blowing .. Toot Toot!

Tom, you came on here and ridiculed EPLC for building and testing bow strings, '*his way*'. You then stated that you can make the 
SAME bow strings better, BECAUSE you got a "secret" method, that has evidently been handed down to you by ancient Kung Fu 
String Masters! Let me tell you what your secret is; better equipment, more knowledge and greater thread count. So, instead of 
educating EPLC on why his String Making Kung Fu wasn't as powerful as yours, you ridiculed the man for doing his best, with the 
equipment he has, and providing his findings on a public forum meant to help other archers.

:bs:


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Schpankme said:


> Well this is nothing more then horn blowing .. Toot Toot!
> 
> Tom, you came on here and ridiculed EPLC for building and testing bow strings, '*his way*'. You then stated that you can make the
> SAME bow strings better, BECAUSE you got a "secret" method, that has evidently been handed down to you by ancient Kung Fu
> ...


Actually, "greater thread count" summed it up nicely. You could have left it there. This was a test of material, not anyone's process, kung fu magic or any other diversion that some people have tossed in here to distract from the results of this testing. The "process" that I used is well documented in this thread. It works.

Aside from all the crying, I haven't heard Tom offer up a 16 strand string for testing? Come to think of it, what a great idea! Come on Tom, put your string where your mouth is.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

First of all I dont know why you of al people are comming afetr me...You call me up have several conversations with me about what new 2011 bow I would reccomend ...I recomend the bow and you buy one...Was the bow that bad that you hate me now...Thats the thanks I get...hmmm

Second I like how you cut and paste only "part of my conversation" above to make it look like I was tooting my own horn here is the rest of it incase you missed it...



> *How is it myself and many other builders can build with all 3 products and achieve great results*


I didnt ridicule ELPC for doing it his way...I just said "sevral times" there is somthing wrong wit the process if he is seeing stretch...Spin it anyway you want....

I dont know what your agenda is with me but you have me confused...








Schpankme said:


> Well this is nothing more then horn blowing .. Toot Toot!
> 
> Tom, you came on here and ridiculed EPLC for building and testing bow strings, '*his way*'. You then stated that you can make the
> SAME bow strings better, BECAUSE you got a "secret" method, that has evidently been handed down to you by ancient Kung Fu
> ...


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